From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar Sat Aug 1 00:04:27 2009 From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 01:04:27 -0300 Subject: problem on socket programming References: <3de0863c-15ef-4153-8d0f-6b7a438b98f5@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> <67ec3e6d-0995-459a-a7a5-3bc296729664@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> <7dg2niF2bue0tU2@mid.uni-berlin.de> <5dbf451d-a289-40d1-83db-ce655d47f698@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> <7dg55pF2bfubpU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> <72f851f9-a2d4-4448-900d-3fe20e4ebeb0@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: En Fri, 31 Jul 2009 10:43:49 -0300, MalC0de escribi?: > none of you can't interpret it ? do you have errors like me !? Have you tried Diez B. Roggisch suggestion? : >> Can you ping and telnet to the port on the desired server? >> Firewalls can be an issue here. The official doc page for the socket module contains a working example of an echo client/server program like yours: http://docs.python.org/library/socket.html#example -- Gabriel Genellina From emmanuel.surleau at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 00:20:28 2009 From: emmanuel.surleau at gmail.com (Emmanuel Surleau) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 06:20:28 +0200 Subject: Confessions of a Python fanboy In-Reply-To: <008f7990$0$9756$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> References: <008f7990$0$9756$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Message-ID: <200908010620.28665.emmanuel.surleau@gmail.com> On Saturday 01 August 2009 03:46:12 Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 20:41:12 +0200, Emmanuel Surleau wrote: > >> We don't actually *declare* that something is constant and then have > >> that declaration ignored. Python doesn't lie to us, although (as in any > >> language) a programmer might. > > > > You could say that Ruby doesn't either, > > Well you could say a lot of things. Admittedly you don't need a separate > "constant" declaration, but creating a variable name with an initial > uppercase letter is sufficient to make it a (supposed) constant: *shrugs* I see it as a way to encourage (but not force) people to follow a coding convention. Is this such a bad thing? > irb(main):049:0* Thing = 5 > => 5 > irb(main):050:0> Thing = 7 > (irb):50: warning: already initialized constant Thing > => 7 > > As you can see, Ruby (well, irb at least) considers that Thing is a > constant, and then goes ahead and changes it anyway. I'm quite aware of how constants work in Ruby, yes :) > Apart from the use of an arbitrary naming convention instead of an > explicit "make this constant" declaration, and the feeble way Ruby > capitulates when you change it, I think having actual write-once > constants is actually a plus. Nothing wrong with naming conventions. This encourages a uniform coding style, something which Python could really use. > > you just need to read the > > documentation. Ruby's unwritten motto is "flexibility ?ber alles". In > > this regard, it is consistent (1). > > "It's consistent in its inconsistency" sort of thing perhaps? No, just consistent. > > Not much is really bolted down in > > Ruby. You get encapsulation, but it's so easy to break that it's mostly > > symbolic. > > Out of curiosity, can you read/write class and instance attributes from > outside the class without using a getter/setter? If you have an instance f class with a attribute @foo which doesn't have an accessor, you could do: f.instance_eval("@foo='bar'") And yes, instance_eval is evil. Cheers, Emm From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar Sat Aug 1 00:48:50 2009 From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 01:48:50 -0300 Subject: Newbie Question regarding __init__() References: Message-ID: En Sat, 01 Aug 2009 00:13:05 -0300, Nat Williams escribi?: > One other thing. I'm a little confused by the first line of > dcObject.__init__: > > self.init_Pre() and self.init_Exec() > > I suspect this does not do what you think it does. init_Pre and > init_Exec > will both be called by this expression (unless init_Pre throws an > exception, > of course). You're not getting anything here that you wouldn't by just > calling each method on a separate line, except just making it harder to > read. Well, perhaps Simon didn't grasp Python's syntax and semantics very well yet, but his code would work as designed after fixing obvious errors: class dcObject(object): """Base Object""" def __init__(self): """default init method has the form of init_Pre() and init_Exec init_Post()""" self.init_Pre() and self.init_Exec() self.init_Post() def init_Pre(self): """Always called before init_Exec() if it returns false init_Exec is not executed""" return True def init_Exec(self): """Base __init__ code goes here and this is only executed if init_Pre() returns true""" return True def init_Post(self): """Always called after the init_Pre() and init_Exec()""" return True init_Pre might return False, in that case init_Exec would not be executed. init_Post is always called. And that's exactly what the docstrings say. I would use an `if` statement instead: if self.init_Pre(): self.init_Exec() and make init_Exec and init_Post not return anything if they have no intrinsic meaning. And probably use better names. But basically the structure is OK. -- Gabriel Genellina From nad at acm.org Sat Aug 1 00:55:34 2009 From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 21:55:34 -0700 Subject: Python docs disappointing References: <4A73AAE3.1050209@tim.thechases.com> Message-ID: In article , Terry Reedy wrote: > This is one area where Windows users seems to have an advantage. The > standard installer includes the doc set as a Windows help file. I often > keep that open in one window while programming in others. I only later > discovered that this was a copy of the online docs ;-), which I only use > to check the in-development version before submitting a doc bug. The python.org Mac OS X installers include the complete documentation set for that version in HTML; the IDLE Help menu will open the front page in a browser (from where you can bookmark it for later use). -- Ned Deily, nad at acm.org From riaz.ahmadskh at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 03:02:51 2009 From: riaz.ahmadskh at gmail.com (Riaz Ahmad) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 00:02:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: "ADMISSION IN FA FSC" "ADMISSION IN FA/FSC" "ADMISSION IN GC UNIVERSITY LAHORE" "ADMISSION IN SCIENCE COLLEGE LAHORE" "ADMISSION IN KIPS LAHORE" "ADMISSION IN LEADERSHIP COLLEGE LAHORE" "ADMISSION IN BAHAUDDIN ZAKARIYA UNIVERSITY MULTAN" Message-ID: <38954c7f-1af5-4739-8982-6193b280d4da@d36g2000prb.googlegroups.com> "ADMISSION IN FA FSC" www.admissionspk.blogspot.com "ADMISSION IN FA/FSC" www.admissionspk.blogspot.com "ADMISSION IN GC UNIVERSITY LAHORE" www.admissionspk.blogspot.com "ADMISSION IN SCIENCE COLLEGE LAHORE" www.admissionspk.blogspot.com "ADMISSION IN KIPS LAHORE" www.admissionspk.blogspot.com "ADMISSION IN LEADERSHIP COLLEGE LAHORE" www.admissionspk.blogspot.com "ADMISSION IN BAHAUDDIN ZAKARIYA UNIVERSITY MULTAN" www.admissionspk.blogspot.com www.admissionspk.blogspot.com From robertrobert93 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 1 03:34:58 2009 From: robertrobert93 at yahoo.com (Robert Robert) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 00:34:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: fil open close very slow Message-ID: <950181.91001.qm@web59306.mail.re1.yahoo.com> hiya all, I have a "large" script written in python. There is in that big script at a certain point a loop in which I create a lots of simple small text files. Each text file just contain I think 4 or 5 short lines. When I simply run it in IDLE, it runs fast. But when?I compile it to binary files, it becomes very slow. I turned on the profiler and discorvered it was slow at the open() and close() calls. I removed those calls to confirm this, and yes my program runs very fast then. Does anyone has an idea or suggestion why this can be possible. I only compile them to .pyc files, which as what I see, when I normally run in IDLe these files are created as well, so I really got no clue. rh. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rt8396 at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 03:53:51 2009 From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 00:53:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: possible to round number and convert to string? References: <24763821.post@talk.nabble.com> <4a737350$0$28514$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it> Message-ID: <4e60ee41-44a2-4e23-b3dd-70a8549026e0@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> On Jul 31, 7:42?pm, "Dr. Phillip M. Feldman" wrote: > This was very close to what I wanted. ?Thanks! ?My final code looks like > this: > > def num2str(x,f=4): > ? ?"""Convert x (int or float) to a string with f digits to right of > ? ?the decimal point. ?f may be zero or negative, in which case the decimal > ? ?point is suppressed.""" > ? ?s= str(round(x,f)) > ? ?if f<=0: > ? ? ? # Delete decimal point: > ? ? ? i= s.find('.') > ? ? ? if i>0: s= s[:i] > ? ?return s Is it *really* necessary to create a named function for something as trivial as this? >>> import math >>> '%0.3f' %math.pi '3.142' >>> '%d' %math.pi '3' Seems string formatting is more "pythonic" -- opps, now why did i have to go and say that... :) From dickinsm at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 04:36:11 2009 From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 01:36:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: possible to round number and convert to string? References: Message-ID: On Jul 31, 11:17?pm, "Dr. Phillip M. Feldman" wrote: > I'd like to be able to convert a float to a string representation in which > the number is rounded to a specified number of digits. ?If num2str is a > hypothetical function that does this, then num2str(pi,3) would be '3.142' > (not '3.141'). Python's string formatting does exactly this. Python 2.6.2 (r262:71600, Jul 8 2009, 09:56:31) [GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Inc. build 5490)] on darwin Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. >>> num2str = '{0:.{1}f}'.format >>> num2str(3.14159, 3) '3.142' (In Python 3.1, num2str = '{:.{}f}'.format is enough.) Mark From john_re at fastmail.us Sat Aug 1 04:52:28 2009 From: john_re at fastmail.us (john_re) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 01:52:28 -0700 Subject: Aug 1 & 16- Global VOIP Free SW HW Culture meeting, BerkeleyTIP, For Forwarding Message-ID: <1249116748.25769.1327808157@webmail.messagingengine.com> Interested in joining the friendly global Free SW HW & Culture communities in a global Voice meeting? You?re invited. :) You can join from your home, or better: get a local meeting together. Tip: a college WiFi cafe could be a great local meeting place. Make sure you have a VOIP headset! For all details, see the website (I?m leaving out many sublinks to make this email smaller). http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip Start by joining #berkeleytip on IRC freenode.net. We?ll help you get your VOIP connection working. :) ===== MARK YOUR CALENDARS: 1st Sat & 3rd Sunday each month. August 1 & 16. 10A - 6P Pacific US time (+7H GMT, IIRC) = 1P-9P Eastern US time = 5P - 1A GMT ? Or, come to the local meeting on the UC Berkeley campus. NOTE: SPECIAL LOCATION AUG 1: SEE BTIP WEBSITE FOR LOCATION, & RSVP TO ME OR THE BTIP LISTS. AUG 1 MEETING WILL BE 12N - 3P AT THE BTIP VOIP SERVER LOCATION ON THE UCB CAMPUS. SEE THE WEBSITE FOR ROOM LOCATION. We?ll hack on the new BTIP Asterisk VOIP server, in its presence. PLEASE RSVP TO ME (John) OR THE LIST IF YOU WANT TO MEET AT OUR USUAL LOCATION, THE FREE SPEECH CAFE, 10A-12n, 3-6PM, (otherwise i might not be there). ===== MEETING TOPICS FOR AUGUST: 1) Whatever _you_ want to work on - Email the BTIPGlobal list & let us know what your interests are. 2) Our VOIP conference server, using Asterisk. 3) Planning for year 2. ===== JOIN FOR THE START OF YEAR 2 GLOBAL MEETINGs: We had a great first year. We had local attendees from around the San Francisco Bay Area & Northern California. High School, College, Grad Students, & working & retired people attended. >From the US, people joined the meeting (IRC or VOIP) from Hawaii to Virgina, Washington to Michigan to Florida. (+ California & other states.) Globally, Sweden, Germany, England, Ireland, Iran & India (& maybe others I don?t recall right now.) :) In May Richard Stallman joined the global meeting for Q & A about free SW & HW. == YEAR 2 FOCUS: COLLEGE LOCAL MEETINGS, & AMERICAS? ANNOUNCEMENTS. Two main things I?ll focus on this year: 1) Inviting groups to join at colleges & universities - BTIP is educational. My hope: if more students learn about free SW hw & culture, some of them will then go on to become _contributors_. :) 2) I?ll try to get monthly announcements out to the biggest LUGs in the 10 largest countries in the Americas. == What would _YOU_ like to accomplish this year? Email the BTIP mail list, say ?hi?, tell us about your interests, projects & desires. ===== FOR FORWARDING - You are invited to forward this announcement wherever you think it might be appreciated. From hitechpundir at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 05:22:28 2009 From: hitechpundir at gmail.com (sirjee) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 02:22:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: problem in event handling on change of variable value. Message-ID: <9c0d7a31-0310-4499-9974-92afc588f315@d15g2000prc.googlegroups.com> hello; i m facing a problem in handling events on change of value of environment variable in a tool CANoe. class CANoeEvents: def OnChange(self,value): print "value of environment variable has changed" def OnOpen(self,App): print "opening Application" App_Event = DispatchWithEvents('CANoe.Application',CANoeEvents) time.sleep(2) App_Event.Open("C:\projectConfig.cfg") # printd "opening Application" and event handled properly. .......(now a code file runs in the canoe in which value of environment variable called dummy is changed during execution. Just like OnOpen; OnChange is defined in specification which should be called on change of environment variable.But it is not happening.) while (): myenvVar = App_Event.Environment.GetVariable("dummy") The VB does it very easily and defines a subroutine called : Sub myenvVar _OnChange(value) print "value of environment variable has changed" End Sub //////////////////////////////////////////////////however the alternative for subroutine for OnOpen in VB (defined below) works fine as shown above in python. Sub AppEvent_OnOpen(App) print "opening Application" End Sub for VB; all this stuff is cake work.... object_eventname subroutine and done.....what in python? From paul at subsignal.org Sat Aug 1 05:28:32 2009 From: paul at subsignal.org (paul) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 11:28:32 +0200 Subject: socket policy flash help In-Reply-To: <04e26f53-5f51-476d-823e-47bfeed9b2a8@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com> References: <04e26f53-5f51-476d-823e-47bfeed9b2a8@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: NighterNet schrieb: > I need help on the policy to able to let access to user to the server > once the policy access is finish. I been trying to find a good > example, but I got no luck. Using python version 3.1. > > Here the code I tested but it not working. > > if str(buff) == str("b\'\\x00\'"): > print ('policy FOUND >>> sending...') > rawinput = str(' access-from domain=\"*\" to-ports=\"*\" />') > print (rawinput) > b = bytes ( ord(c) for c in rawinput) > self.sockfd.send(b); And the error is? Doesn't Flash use http as transport? cheers Paul From davea at ieee.org Sat Aug 1 05:52:11 2009 From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 05:52:11 -0400 Subject: Newbie Question regarding __init__() In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A74104B.7080403@ieee.org> Nat Williams wrote: > As MRAB described, ALL instance methods need to accept 'self' as a first > parameter, as that will be passed to them implicitly when they are called. > This includes __init__. The name 'self' is just a commonly accepted > convention for the name of the instance object passed to methods. You don't > have to call it that, but you really should. > > Take a look at http://docs.python.org/tutorial/classes.html#class-objects > It might help shed some light on how methods and instances work. > > One other thing. I'm a little confused by the first line of > dcObject.__init__: > > self.init_Pre() and self.init_Exec() > > I suspect this does not do what you think it does. init_Pre and init_Exec > will both be called by this expression (unless init_Pre throws an exception, > of course). You're not getting anything here that you wouldn't by just > calling each method on a separate line, except just making it harder to > read. > > Read the doc-string for init_Pre() and for init_Exec(). The final version of init_Pre() will return False in some circumstances, and in those circumstances Simon doesn't want init_Exec() to be called. He's deliberately using the short-circuit evaluation of 'and' to accomplish that. > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 8:53 PM, Simon wrote: > > >> Hi >> >> So should the dcObject class include the "self" as well since I have >> not defined an __init__ method in dcCursor? >> >> Simon >> >> -- >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list >> >> > > Every one of those methods in both of those classes need a "self" first argument. As others have said, all instance methods need a 'self.' From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk Sat Aug 1 05:57:13 2009 From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 02:57:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Confused About Python Loggin References: <534A6695-37D9-4200-9872-9E844AE50681@cs.ucl.ac.uk> <14CCA71D-F575-4B8A-8C99-67BDAAC2C6E0@cs.ucl.ac.uk> Message-ID: On Jul 31, 2:04?pm, Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote: > Jannik Sund? wrote: > > Hi all. I think I fixed this problem by setting fileLogger.propagate = > > 0. Otherwise it will propagate up to the root logger, which outputs to > > stdout, as far as I can understand. > > > On 31 Jul 2009, at 01:17, Jannik Sund? wrote: > > >> Dear all, I am quite confused about the Pythonlogging. I have read > >> and re-read the Python documentation for the Pythonloggingmodule > >> and googled, but to no avail. I simply want one logger to log to a > >> file and another logger to log to the console. Neither should log the > >> other's messages. The code below causes fileLogger to log to BOTH a > >> file and the console, how come? It seems to me that a call such as > >> "consoleHandler =logging.StreamHandler()" affects other loggers, > >> which I do not want. Also, if I do not do > >>logging.basicConfig(level=logging.INFO) in one of the classes of my > >> application, theloggingdoes not work. Any ideas how come? > > >> Thanks a lot for any help! :) > > >> fileHandler =logging.FileHandler('../../logs/log.txt') > >> fileLogger =logging.getLogger('TESTHARNESSFILE') > >> fileLogger.addHandler(fileHandler) > >> fileLogger.setLevel(logging.INFO) > >> consoleHandler =logging.StreamHandler() > >> logger =logging.getLogger('TESTHARNESS') > >> logger.addHandler(consoleHandler) > >> logger.setLevel(logging.INFO) > > > --http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list > > Please do not top post :o) > > Are sure you have used the code provided above ? > Loggers only propagate events to its parent. > > fileLogger =logging.getLogger('TESTHARNESSFILE" > logger =logging.getLogger('TESTHARNESS') > Those one have no parent relationship. > > However these one have parent relationship: > fileLogger =logging.getLogger('TESTHARNESS.FILE") # note the dotted name > logger =logging.getLogger('TESTHARNESS') > > Or maybe you have added a handler to the root logger... > > Using the propagate attribute is correct only between 2 loggers that are > meant to be parents. > > JM What you say is true, Jean-Michel, but the OP might be meaning the parent-child relationship both his loggers have with the mother of all loggers - the root logger ;-) Regards, Vinay Sajip From piet at cs.uu.nl Sat Aug 1 07:52:16 2009 From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 13:52:16 +0200 Subject: socket policy flash help References: <04e26f53-5f51-476d-823e-47bfeed9b2a8@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: >>>>> NighterNet (N) wrote: >N> I need help on the policy to able to let access to user to the server >N> once the policy access is finish. I been trying to find a good >N> example, but I got no luck. Using python version 3.1. >N> Here the code I tested but it not working. >N> if str(buff) == str("b\'\\x00\'"): What is buff supposed to contain here? I assume a byte sequence? Do you reaaly mean that buff[0] contains the byte 'b' and buff[1] contains a single quote? And the last byte also a single quote? And the four bytes with \ x 0 0 before that instead of a null byte? In total 29 bytes? Or did you mean just the 23 bytes long b'\x00'? Maybe it should be if buff == b'\x00': >N> print ('policy FOUND >>> sending...') >N> rawinput = str('') The str here is unnecessary as you have already a string. >N> print (rawinput) >N> b = bytes ( ord(c) for c in rawinput) Why not b = b'' ? >N> self.sockfd.send(b); -- Piet van Oostrum URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4] Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org From tarundevnani at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 09:32:53 2009 From: tarundevnani at gmail.com (tarun) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 19:02:53 +0530 Subject: How to read webpage Message-ID: Dear All,I want to read a webpage and copy the contents of it in word file. I tried to write following code: import urllib2 urllib2.urlopen("http://www.rediff .com/") *Error:-* urllib2.urlopen("http://www.icicibank.com/") File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 121, in urlopen return _opener.open(url, data) File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 374, in open response = self._open(req, data) File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 392, in _open '_open', req) File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 353, in _call_chain result = func(*args) File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 1100, in http_open return self.do_open(httplib.HTTPConnection, req) File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 1075, in do_open raise URLError(err) urllib2.URLError: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From python at mrabarnett.plus.com Sat Aug 1 09:52:17 2009 From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 14:52:17 +0100 Subject: How to read webpage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A744891.7050808@mrabarnett.plus.com> tarun wrote: > Dear All, > I want to read a webpage and copy the contents of it in word file. I > tried to write following code: > > import urllib2 > urllib2.urlopen("http://www.rediff.com/") > > *Error:-* > > urllib2.urlopen("http://www.icicibank.com/") > File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 121, in urlopen > return _opener.open(url, data) > File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 374, in open > response = self._open(req, data) > File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 392, in _open > '_open', req) > File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 353, in _call_chain > result = func(*args) > File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 1100, in http_open > return self.do_open(httplib.HTTPConnection, req) > File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 1075, in do_open > raise URLError(err) > urllib2.URLError: > I've just tried it. I didn't get an exception, so your problem must be elsewhere. From koranthala at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 11:19:28 2009 From: koranthala at gmail.com (koranthala) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 08:19:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: How to read webpage References: Message-ID: <67de4ef0-0da7-47e6-8e2e-23be4a6b452c@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com> On Aug 1, 6:52?pm, MRAB wrote: > tarun wrote: > > Dear All, > > I want to read a webpage and copy the contents of it in word file. I > > tried to write following code: > > > import urllib2 > > urllib2.urlopen("http://www.rediff.com/") > > > *Error:-* > > > ? ? urllib2.urlopen("http://www.icicibank.com/") > > ? File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 121, in urlopen > > ? ? return _opener.open(url, data) > > ? File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 374, in open > > ? ? response = self._open(req, data) > > ? File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 392, in _open > > ? ? '_open', req) > > ? File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 353, in _call_chain > > ? ? result = func(*args) > > ? File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 1100, in http_open > > ? ? return self.do_open(httplib.HTTPConnection, req) > > ? File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 1075, in do_open > > ? ? raise URLError(err) > > urllib2.URLError: > > I've just tried it. I didn't get an exception, so your problem must be > elsewhere. Is it that the website expects a valid browser? In that case, spoof a browser and try to get the site. From joncle at googlemail.com Sat Aug 1 11:31:09 2009 From: joncle at googlemail.com (Jon Clements) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 08:31:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: How to read webpage References: Message-ID: <7690d42e-ea99-4aec-9029-5cfae119ffcf@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> On 1 Aug, 14:52, MRAB wrote: > tarun wrote: > > Dear All, > > I want to read a webpage and copy the contents of it in word file. I > > tried to write following code: > > > import urllib2 > > urllib2.urlopen("http://www.rediff.com/") > > > *Error:-* > > > ? ? urllib2.urlopen("http://www.icicibank.com/") > > ? File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 121, in urlopen > > ? ? return _opener.open(url, data) > > ? File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 374, in open > > ? ? response = self._open(req, data) > > ? File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 392, in _open > > ? ? '_open', req) > > ? File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 353, in _call_chain > > ? ? result = func(*args) > > ? File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 1100, in http_open > > ? ? return self.do_open(httplib.HTTPConnection, req) > > ? File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 1075, in do_open > > ? ? raise URLError(err) > > urllib2.URLError: > > I've just tried it. I didn't get an exception, so your problem must be > elsewhere. I'm hoping this adds to MRAB's reply; it is intended however for the OP. Jeeze -- been a while since I've had to deal with Sockets (directly anyway). If memory serves correctly, it's where the system can't name resolve the required address. So best guess is it's either a temporary glitch, or an issue with your routing. Jon. Jon. From darkneter at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 11:34:57 2009 From: darkneter at gmail.com (NighterNet) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 08:34:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: socket policy flash help References: <04e26f53-5f51-476d-823e-47bfeed9b2a8@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <8bede581-f260-4c69-abf0-1e8071380b76@z4g2000prh.googlegroups.com> On Aug 1, 4:52?am, Piet van Oostrum wrote: > >>>>> NighterNet (N) wrote: > >N> I need help on the policy to able to let access to user to the server > >N> once the policy access is finish. I been trying to find a good > >N> example, but I got no luck. Using python version 3.1. > >N> Here the code I tested but it not working. > >N> if str(buff) == str("b\'\\x00\'"): > > What is buff supposed to contain here? I assume a byte sequence? > Do you reaaly mean that buff[0] contains the byte 'b' and buff[1] > contains a single quote? And the last byte also a single quote? And the > four bytes with \ x 0 0 before that instead of a null byte? In total 29 bytes? > > Or did you mean just the 23 bytes long b'\x00'? > > Maybe it should be if buff == b'\x00': > > >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print ('policy FOUND >>> sending...') > >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? rawinput = str('') > > The str here is unnecessary as you have already a string. > > >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print (rawinput) > >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? b = bytes ( ord(c) for c in rawinput) > > Why not > b = b'' ? > > >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? self.sockfd.send(b); > > -- > Piet van Oostrum > URL:http://pietvanoostrum.com[PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4] > Private email: p... at vanoostrum.org I try that method and flash socket is not getting the policy. b = b'' self.sockfd.send(b); server = socket.socket( socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM) When it able to read the policy it send it but it fail to send to flash some reason and send it again and then d/c. From marcusw at cox.net Sat Aug 1 11:43:15 2009 From: marcusw at cox.net (Marcus Wanner) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 11:43:15 -0400 Subject: How to read webpage In-Reply-To: <7690d42e-ea99-4aec-9029-5cfae119ffcf@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> References: <7690d42e-ea99-4aec-9029-5cfae119ffcf@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: On 8/1/2009 11:31 AM, Jon Clements wrote: > On 1 Aug, 14:52, MRAB wrote: >> tarun wrote: >>> Dear All, >>> I want to read a webpage and copy the contents of it in word file. I >>> tried to write following code: >>> import urllib2 >>> urllib2.urlopen("http://www.rediff.com/") >>> *Error:-* >>> urllib2.urlopen("http://www.icicibank.com/") >>> File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 121, in urlopen >>> return _opener.open(url, data) >>> File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 374, in open >>> response = self._open(req, data) >>> File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 392, in _open >>> '_open', req) >>> File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 353, in _call_chain >>> result = func(*args) >>> File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 1100, in http_open >>> return self.do_open(httplib.HTTPConnection, req) >>> File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 1075, in do_open >>> raise URLError(err) >>> urllib2.URLError: >> I've just tried it. I didn't get an exception, so your problem must be >> elsewhere. > > I'm hoping this adds to MRAB's reply; it is intended however for the > OP. > > Jeeze -- been a while since I've had to deal with Sockets (directly > anyway). > If memory serves correctly, it's where the system can't name resolve > the required address. > So best guess is it's either a temporary glitch, or an issue with your > routing. > > Jon. > Jon. 'getaddrinfo failed' means that the nameserver can't be found, or that it has no records of that address (I'm 90% sure of that). Marcus From nobody at nowhere.com Sat Aug 1 13:11:18 2009 From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 18:11:18 +0100 Subject: Python docs disappointing References: Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 20:10:45 +0000, kj wrote: > I'm pretty new to Python, and I like a lot overall, but I find the > documentation for Python rather poor, overall. FWIW, I find the module documentation to be mostly adequate. What's missing is a human-readable language *manual*. The tutorial omits too much; the language reference may be fine for language lawyering, but it's not much use otherwise. From MatzeGuentert at gmx.de Sat Aug 1 13:16:14 2009 From: MatzeGuentert at gmx.de (Matthias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=FCntert?=) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 19:16:14 +0200 Subject: M2Crypto: AttributeError: 'CSR' object has no attribute 'pkey' Message-ID: <1249146974.3330.1.camel@celsius> Hello python-guys I am trying to build a python based certificate authority using m2crypto. I am quite new to python and I am asking myself why my code snippets below throw the following Traceback: $ python csr.py ...++++++++++++ ...............++++++++++++ Traceback (most recent call last): File "csr.py", line 48, in csr.create_cert_signing_request(pubkey, cert_name) File "csr.py", line 17, in create_cert_signing_request cert_request.set_pubkey(keypair) File "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/M2Crypto/X509.py", line 926, in set_pubkey return m2.x509_req_set_pubkey( self.req, pkey.pkey ) AttributeError: 'CSR' object has no attribute 'pkey' Bellow are my modules containing two classes CSR and Keypair. There seems to be something wrong in the way I am calling csr.create_cert_signing_request(), because if I directly add the key generation part to the create_cert_singing_request function it works... http://www.heikkitoivonen.net/m2crypto/api/M2Crypto.X509.Request-class.html#set_pubkey This link states out, that the instance function set_pubkey takes an EVP_KEY object as argument, and thats what I am passing to it, or not? I really would be happy if someone could give me a helping hand on this and maybe could comment every style / ... mistake I made to accelerate my learning experience. Thanks, Matthias $ cat csr.py from config import * from keypair import * from M2Crypto import X509, EVP class CSR(object): def __init__(self): pass def create_cert_signing_request(keypair, cert_name, cert_extension_stack=None): # create a certificate signing request object cert_request = X509.Request() # set certificate version to 3 cert_request.set_version(3) # which rsa public key should be used? cert_request.set_pubkey(keypair) # create an subject for the certificate request cert_request.set_subject_name(cert_name) if cert_extension_stack != None: # add the extensions to the request cert_request.add_extensions(cert_extension_stack) # sign the request using the RSA key pair cert_request.sign(keypair, 'sha1') return cert_request if __name__ == "__main__": csr = CSR() cert_name = X509.X509_Name() keyp = Keypair() keyp.create_keypair() keyp.save_keypair("host.key") pubkey = keyp.get_keypair() cert_name.C = "GB" cert_name.ST = "Greater Manchester" cert_name.L = "Salford" cert_name.O = "COMODO CA Limited" cert_name.CN = "COMODO Certification Authority" cert_name.OU = "Information Technology" cert_name.Email = "contact at comodo.com" csr.create_cert_signing_request(pubkey, cert_name) $ cat keypair.py from M2Crypto import X509, m2, RSA, EVP from config import * class Keypair(object): def __init__(self): self.config = Config() self.keypair = EVP.PKey() def create_keypair(self): # generate an RSA key pair # OpenSSL book page 232 # second argument should be a constant RSA_F4 or RSA_3 rsa_key_pair = RSA.gen_key(int(self.config.get_attribute('CA','key_size')), m2.RSA_F4) # check if RSA key pair is usable # OpenSSL book page 232 if rsa_key_pair.check_key() != 1: print 'error while generating key!' sys.exit() # EVP object which can hold either a DSA or an RSA object # OpenSSL book page 236 evp_key_container = EVP.PKey() evp_key_container.assign_rsa(rsa_key_pair) self.keypair = evp_key_container def save_keypair(self, filename): self.keypair.save_key(filename, None) def load_keypair(self, filename): self.keypair = EVP.load_key(filename) def get_keypair(self): return self.keypair def get_public_key(self): return self.keypair.pkey def print_keypair(self): print self.keypair.as_pem(None) if __name__ == "__main__": key = Keypair() key.create_keypair() key.save_keypair("test.key") print key.get_keypair() print key.get_public_key() From enleverLesX_XXmcX at XmclavXeauX.com Sat Aug 1 13:20:35 2009 From: enleverLesX_XXmcX at XmclavXeauX.com (Michel Claveau - MVP) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 19:20:35 +0200 Subject: os.path.exists() and Samba shares References: Message-ID: <4a747965$0$23487$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr> Hi! > SAMBA is a Linux implementation of the SMB protocol, natively supported on Windows. Right. But, with Vista or Seven, only recents releases of Samba are supported. And, Samba know only NTLM release 2 (in register: HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Lsa value LMCompatibilityLevel ; set 1 or 0. ) @-salutations -- Michel Claveau From justindecell at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 14:07:15 2009 From: justindecell at gmail.com (Justin DeCell) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 11:07:15 -0700 Subject: Queryable Daemon Message-ID: <81F5E933-9140-4269-AA13-FDB34CB9E895@gmail.com> Hi All, I was hoping for a little help with a project I'm working on. I'm writing a daemon in python that I want to be queryable (i.e. I should be able to run foo -s and it will report some internal information about the foo daemon if it's running) but I can't figure out a way get information from that process from an external process. I was thinking that there should be a way to open a file descriptor, have the daemon write to that every so often and then have the query process just read from that fd but it looks like on the process reading from an fd has to be a child of the daemon for this to work. The only other way I thought of would be to write to a file on disk every so often from the daemon and just read the from the query process but it seems like there should be a more elegant way to do this... By the way I'm writing this for unix only so there's no need to worry about compatibility with other os'. Thanks, -Justin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From luke.leighton at googlemail.com Sat Aug 1 14:07:51 2009 From: luke.leighton at googlemail.com (lkcl) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 11:07:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: JavaScript toolkits (was Re: ANN: Porcupine Web Application Server 0.6 is released!) References: Message-ID: <01133210-f03b-4a71-aa9e-d69fe44ac9a5@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> On Jul 20, 4:00 pm, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote: > Out of curiosity, are there anyJavaScripttoolkits or python-to-javascript compilers > that generate code > that degrades gracefully whenJavaScriptis disabled? http://advogato.org/article/981.html you'll need to do a little bit of work - use a state-machine-based framework (such as twisted, from what i can gather), or use fastcgi, or solve the problem of storing the state of the pyjamas application "in between" web requests - but yes, pyjamas-web is a port of pyjamas to the web server. so, by writing an app that conforms to the pyjamas API, you get to compile it to native javascript, to run in the web browser; you get to run it as pure python using pyjamas-desktop (python-hulahop underneath or pywebkitgtk) and then, if you want to finish off the experiment that i started, you get to run the _same_ python app server-side on behalf of the users. all quite quite mad, to be honest :) l. From luke.leighton at googlemail.com Sat Aug 1 14:11:02 2009 From: luke.leighton at googlemail.com (lkcl) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 11:11:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: JavaScript toolkits (was Re: ANN: Porcupine Web Application Server 0.6 is released!) References: <1c994086-8c58-488f-b3b3-6161c4b2ba05@k30g2000yqf.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <2a2f05af-a87e-44bf-8d36-774697dbd794@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> On Jul 21, 12:55 pm, Paul Boddie wrote: > On 20 Jul, 18:00, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote: > > > > > Out of curiosity, are there anyJavaScripttoolkits that generate code > > that degrades gracefully whenJavaScriptis disabled? > > You mean "Web toolkits which useJavaScript", I presume. I have > written (and use myself) a toolkit/framework called XSLForms (part of > the XSLTools distribution) which supports in-page updates (AJAX, > effectively) that degrade to vanilla whole-page requests ifJavaScript > is switched off: yeahhh.... i remember doing something like that. each portion of the page i did as a separate AJAX load, and then there was some loader- infrastructure where you could, if javascript was switched off, do a tree-walk-reconstruction of the page. if anyone's interested i can provide source code. l. From hjtoi-better-remove-before-reply at comcast.net Sat Aug 1 14:19:13 2009 From: hjtoi-better-remove-before-reply at comcast.net (Heikki Toivonen) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 11:19:13 -0700 Subject: M2Crypto: AttributeError: 'CSR' object has no attribute 'pkey' References: Message-ID: Matthias G?ntert wrote: > class CSR(object): > def __init__(self): > pass > > def create_cert_signing_request(keypair, cert_name, > cert_extension_stack=None): You missed self. Although this method does not seem to be using any instance data so there isn't actually much reason to have a CSR object unless you intend to expand it in ways that require it. > if cert_extension_stack != None: A word of advice: always check equality/inequality to None with 'is', because that way it is a straight pointer conversion which is faster and won't cause any surprises. In other words, write the above as: if cert_extension_stack is not None: -- Heikki Toivonen - http://heikkitoivonen.net From jkn_gg at nicorp.f9.co.uk Sat Aug 1 15:01:32 2009 From: jkn_gg at nicorp.f9.co.uk (jkn) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 12:01:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Python docs disappointing References: <4A73AAE3.1050209@tim.thechases.com> Message-ID: On Aug 1, 4:18?am, Terry Reedy wrote: > This is one area where Windows users seems to have an advantage. The > standard installer includes the doc set as a Windows help file. I often > keep that open in one window while programming in others. I only later > discovered that this was a copy of the online docs ;-), which I only use > to check the in-development version before submitting a doc bug. The ActiveState distribution also includes the doc set as a CHM file (the canonical version didn't used to; one reason why I've used ActiveState in the past). I run a dual-boot system and have used a CHM (Windows Compiled help file format) viewer under Linux to read the Windows help file. This has been pretty handy in the past. Unfortunately, the combination of the python 2.6 CHM helpfile style, and the KChmViewer application gives me body text which is almost unreadable (black text on dark blue background). I'm not sure if this a bug in KChmViewer but it's pretty annoying. Anyone else see this? J^n From python at mrabarnett.plus.com Sat Aug 1 15:32:21 2009 From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 20:32:21 +0100 Subject: Queryable Daemon In-Reply-To: <81F5E933-9140-4269-AA13-FDB34CB9E895@gmail.com> References: <81F5E933-9140-4269-AA13-FDB34CB9E895@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A749845.4020208@mrabarnett.plus.com> Justin DeCell wrote: > Hi All, > > I was hoping for a little help with a project I'm working on. I'm > writing a daemon in python that I want to be queryable (i.e. I should > be able to run foo -s and it will report some internal information about > the foo daemon if it's running) but I can't figure out a way get > information from that process from an external process. I was thinking > that there should be a way to open a file descriptor, have the daemon > write to that every so often and then have the query process just read > from that fd but it looks like on the process reading from an fd has to > be a child of the daemon for this to work. The only other way I thought > of would be to write to a file on disk every so often from the daemon > and just read the from the query process but it seems like there should > be a more elegant way to do this... > > By the way I'm writing this for unix only so there's no need to worry > about compatibility with other os'. > Instead of a file descriptor, how about a socket? A certain port at "127.0.0.1"? From mail at timgolden.me.uk Sat Aug 1 15:32:31 2009 From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 20:32:31 +0100 Subject: Python docs disappointing In-Reply-To: References: <4A73AAE3.1050209@tim.thechases.com> Message-ID: <4A74984F.9010805@timgolden.me.uk> jkn wrote: > The ActiveState distribution also includes the doc set as a CHM file > (the canonical version didn't used to; one reason why I've used > ActiveState in the past). It has done for quite some while now: Python 2.3 was the first and that was released, what, six years ago. Still, you're right; it used to use plain HTML. > Unfortunately, the combination of the python 2.6 CHM helpfile style, > and the KChmViewer application gives me body text which is almost > unreadable (black text on dark blue background). I'm not sure if this > a bug in KChmViewer but it's pretty annoying. Anyone else see this? This was noised about when the new-style docs were first released. Somehow (I don't run Linux usually) I had the impression it had been fixed; presumably not. However, rebuilding the docs is not at all hard: you just need a Python installation and the HTMLHelp Workshop. Then you can fiddle about with the CSS to your heart's content. TJG From geomajor56 at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 15:39:12 2009 From: geomajor56 at gmail.com (Michael Savarese) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 15:39:12 -0400 Subject: iterate lines with regex Message-ID: <75c8645a0908011239q54292379tb02ff4de364839af@mail.gmail.com> I'm a python newbie and I'm trying to test several regular expressions on the same line before moving on to next line. it seems to move on to next line before trying all regular expressions which is my goal. it only returns true for first regular expression does the curser have to be rest to beginning of line? If so, how would I do that. remember I'm new thanks in advance to any advice Mike S. the following is part of my code, readThis=open('c:/9320.txt','r') for line in readThis: try: thisKey = key.search(line).group(1) thisMap = map.search(line).group(1) thisParcel = parcel.search(line).group(1) except: continue -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jkn_gg at nicorp.f9.co.uk Sat Aug 1 15:44:14 2009 From: jkn_gg at nicorp.f9.co.uk (jkn) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 12:44:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Python docs disappointing References: <4A73AAE3.1050209@tim.thechases.com> Message-ID: Hi Tim On Aug 1, 8:32?pm, Tim Golden wrote: > > > Unfortunately, the combination of the python 2.6 CHM helpfile style, > > and the KChmViewer application gives me body text which is almost > > unreadable (black text on dark blue background). I'm not sure if this > > a bug in KChmViewer but it's pretty annoying. Anyone else see this? > > This was noised about when the new-style docs were first released. > Somehow (I don't run Linux usually) I had the impression it had > been fixed; presumably not. However, rebuilding the docs is not > at all hard: you just need a Python installation and the > HTMLHelp Workshop. Then you can fiddle about with the CSS to > your heart's content. > The HTML form of the documents (on python.org) seem fine (dark text on a light background, with a 'light blue on dark blue' sidebar). I was guessing that the .CHM was intended to have the same style, and therefore there was a problem with either my viwer, or with the conversion. Is this not the case then? I've just checked using xchm, and this displays OK - but I don't think it's taking any notice of any styles. FWIW I'm running 4.0-r1; there is a later release but it's not yet available for my Gentoo distribution. Can you point me at any references to this bug in the Python release world please? Thanks J^n From jkn_gg at nicorp.f9.co.uk Sat Aug 1 15:47:50 2009 From: jkn_gg at nicorp.f9.co.uk (jkn) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 12:47:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Python docs disappointing References: <4A73AAE3.1050209@tim.thechases.com> Message-ID: <5cdcdc4a-5dd5-4c0a-a7cd-cdd078f8c262@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> update: if I set 'use KHTMLPart-based widget' instead of 'QTextBrowser- based Widget' to display HTML content in the application settings of KchmViewer, all is readable. Hurrah! I wonder if it is picing up some QT stylesheet I have lying around in an over-clever way... J^n From ml at well-adjusted.de Sat Aug 1 15:55:31 2009 From: ml at well-adjusted.de (Jochen Schulz) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 21:55:31 +0200 Subject: iterate lines with regex In-Reply-To: <75c8645a0908011239q54292379tb02ff4de364839af@mail.gmail.com> References: <75c8645a0908011239q54292379tb02ff4de364839af@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090801195531.GH15902@wasteland.homelinux.net> Michael Savarese: > > for line in readThis: > try: > thisKey = key.search(line).group(1) > thisMap = map.search(line).group(1) > thisParcel = parcel.search(line).group(1) > except: > continue Why do you catch all exceptions in that loop? Remove the try-except clause including the 'continue' and a stacktrace will probybably tell you why your loop appears to do nothing. J. -- A passionate argument means more to me than a blockbuster movie. [Agree] [Disagree] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 204 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk Sat Aug 1 16:08:14 2009 From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 21:08:14 +0100 Subject: iterate lines with regex In-Reply-To: <75c8645a0908011239q54292379tb02ff4de364839af@mail.gmail.com> References: <75c8645a0908011239q54292379tb02ff4de364839af@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Michael Savarese wrote: > I'm a python newbie and I'm trying to test several regular expressions on > the same line before moving on to next line. > it seems to move on to next line before trying all regular expressions which > is my goal. > it only returns true for first regular expression > does the curser have to be rest to beginning of line? If so, how would I do > that. > remember I'm new > thanks in advance to any advice > Mike S. > > the following is part of my code, > readThis=open('c:/9320.txt','r') > > for line in readThis: > try: > thisKey = key.search(line).group(1) > thisMap = map.search(line).group(1) > thisParcel = parcel.search(line).group(1) > except: > continue > > The bare except will hide any errors in the lines above it. Either catch errors that you expect or take the try-except out. -- Kindest regards. Mark Lawrence. From workitharder at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 16:42:16 2009 From: workitharder at gmail.com (Buck) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 13:42:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Module updating plans for Python 3.1: feedparser, MySQLdb References: <4a739a96$0$1615$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> Message-ID: I use MySQLdb quite a bit in my work. I could volunteer to help update it. Are there any particular bugs we're talking about or just a straight port to 3.0? --Buck On Jul 31, 6:32?pm, John Nagle wrote: > ? ? Any progress on updating feedparser and MySQLdb for Python 3.x in the > foreseeable future? > > ? ? Feedparser shouldn't be that hard; it's just that nobody is working on it. > MySQLdb is known to be hard, and that may be a while. > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? John Nagle From garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk Sat Aug 1 17:14:59 2009 From: garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk (garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 21:14:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Queryable Daemon References: <81F5E933-9140-4269-AA13-FDB34CB9E895@gmail.com> Message-ID: MRAB wrote: > Justin DeCell wrote: >> Hi All, >> ... >> The only other way I thought >> of would be to write to a file on disk every so often from the daemon >> and just read the from the query process but it seems like there should >> be a more elegant way to do this... >> >> By the way I'm writing this for unix only so there's no need to worry >> about compatibility with other os'. >> > Instead of a file descriptor, how about a socket? A certain port at > "127.0.0.1"? Or a Unix domain socket. Or let the demon catch signal, say SIGUSR1 and dump its state to a file. A bit easier programming that a socket, a bit less elegant. -- ----------------------------------------------------------- | Radovan Garab?k http://kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk/~garabik/ | | __..--^^^--..__ garabik @ kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk | ----------------------------------------------------------- Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus. Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread! From saimapk81 at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 17:29:25 2009 From: saimapk81 at gmail.com (saima81) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 14:29:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: "PAK WEB PAGES" "PAK WEB SITES" "PAK WEB PAGES" "PAK WEB SITES" "PAK WEB PAGES" "PAK WEB SITES" ON www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com Message-ID: "PAK WEB PAGES" www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com "PAK WEB SITES" www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com "PAK WEB PAGES" www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com "PAK WEB SITES" www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com "PAK WEB PAGES" www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com "PAK WEB SITES" www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com ON www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com From michael at altra-optics.co.uk Sat Aug 1 17:58:53 2009 From: michael at altra-optics.co.uk (Michael M Mason) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 22:58:53 +0100 Subject: Newbie thwarted by sys.path on Vista Message-ID: <7djs50F2bsubuU1@mid.individual.net> I'm running Python 3.1 on Vista and I can't figure out how to add my own directory to sys.path. The docs suggest that I can either add it to the PYTHONPATH environment variable or to the PythonPath key in the registry. However, PYTHONPATH doesn't exist, and updating the registry key has no effect (and in any case the contents aren't the same as sys.path). So where does sys.path get its value from, and how do I change it? -- Michael From nytrokiss at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 19:01:45 2009 From: nytrokiss at gmail.com (James Matthews) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 02:01:45 +0300 Subject: How to read webpage In-Reply-To: References: <7690d42e-ea99-4aec-9029-5cfae119ffcf@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <8a6b8e350908011601v4d2ab86bp5618c6171cfb9a98@mail.gmail.com> Check your connection to the internet. On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 6:43 PM, Marcus Wanner wrote: > On 8/1/2009 11:31 AM, Jon Clements wrote: > >> On 1 Aug, 14:52, MRAB wrote: >> >>> tarun wrote: >>> >>>> Dear All, >>>> I want to read a webpage and copy the contents of it in word file. I >>>> tried to write following code: >>>> import urllib2 >>>> urllib2.urlopen("http://www.rediff.com/") >>>> *Error:-* >>>> urllib2.urlopen("http://www.icicibank.com/") >>>> File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 121, in urlopen >>>> return _opener.open(url, data) >>>> File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 374, in open >>>> response = self._open(req, data) >>>> File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 392, in _open >>>> '_open', req) >>>> File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 353, in _call_chain >>>> result = func(*args) >>>> File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 1100, in http_open >>>> return self.do_open(httplib.HTTPConnection, req) >>>> File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 1075, in do_open >>>> raise URLError(err) >>>> urllib2.URLError: >>>> >>> I've just tried it. I didn't get an exception, so your problem must be >>> elsewhere. >>> >> >> I'm hoping this adds to MRAB's reply; it is intended however for the >> OP. >> >> Jeeze -- been a while since I've had to deal with Sockets (directly >> anyway). >> If memory serves correctly, it's where the system can't name resolve >> the required address. >> So best guess is it's either a temporary glitch, or an issue with your >> routing. >> >> Jon. >> Jon. >> > > 'getaddrinfo failed' means that the nameserver can't be found, or that it > has no records of that address (I'm 90% sure of that). > > Marcus > > -- > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list > -- http://www.goldwatches.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From luke.leighton at googlemail.com Sat Aug 1 19:19:55 2009 From: luke.leighton at googlemail.com (lkcl) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 16:19:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Calling functions: Why this complicated ? References: <89dd3da60907141340i46a6d913mb333788e85507128@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5e089462-dbc1-4764-a57c-86c94cb0ae14@u16g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> On Jul 14, 11:31 pm, Chris Rebert wrote: > On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 1:40 PM, Mohan Parthasarathy wrote: > > Hi, > > I am a newbie. I am reading > >http://www.network-theory.co.uk/docs/pytut/KeywordArguments.html > > Defining a function with "N" arguments and calling them in "M" different > > ways. Why does it have to be this complicated ? I like the idea of calling > > the function by explicitly naming the arguments, but there are so many other > > ways here that is very confusing. Do people really use all these features ? > > Perhaps, there is a equivalent book to "Javascript: Good Parts" for Python ? > > Oh $DEITY, don't even compare Python toJavaScript. At least in > Python, when you try to access a non-existent attribute, a proper > NameError exception is thrown rather than silently getting back > "undefined"... (*has traumatic horror story flashback*) yehh, that's what i thought, originally, but after talking it over with the people doing the EMCAScript Harmony spec, they explained that nooo, there _are_ exceptions thrown (two if the browser implements it properly, which IE of course doesn't). you can try it by installing the spidermonkey js compiler, which is the exact same js engine that's in firefox. in the python-to-javascript compiler, http://pyjs.org, however, we've taken to adding a double-check (the equivalent of getattr) when you specify the --strict option, juuust to make sure. and yes, there was a talk at europython 2009, pretty much called "javascript, the good parts, for python programmers", you can look it up, the talk audio is online by now. http://europython.eu l. From joncle at googlemail.com Sat Aug 1 19:32:21 2009 From: joncle at googlemail.com (Jon Clements) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 16:32:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Newbie thwarted by sys.path on Vista References: <7djs50F2bsubuU1@mid.individual.net> Message-ID: <105eaa91-e751-4b25-a2c9-94cd075b60c7@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> On 1 Aug, 22:58, "Michael M Mason" wrote: > I'm running Python 3.1 on Vista and I can't figure out how to add my own > directory to ?sys.path. > > The docs suggest that I can either add it to the PYTHONPATH environment > variable or to the PythonPath key in the registry. ?However, PYTHONPATH > doesn't exist, and updating the registry key has no effect (and in any case > the contents aren't the same as sys.path). > > So where does sys.path get its value from, and how do I change it? > > -- > Michael sys.path is just a list. So in your 'main' module where you do most of your imports, just append or prepend the path you desire (the search order is left to right). Although, I believe under Windows creating a system level or user level PYTHONPATH environment variable will enable Windows to pick it up. Not 100% sure as I don't have a Windows machine handy. From piet at cs.uu.nl Sat Aug 1 19:36:18 2009 From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 01:36:18 +0200 Subject: Newbie thwarted by sys.path on Vista References: <7djs50F2bsubuU1@mid.individual.net> Message-ID: >>>>> "Michael M Mason" (MMM) wrote: >MMM> I'm running Python 3.1 on Vista and I can't figure out how to add my own >MMM> directory to sys.path. >MMM> The docs suggest that I can either add it to the PYTHONPATH environment >MMM> variable or to the PythonPath key in the registry. However, PYTHONPATH >MMM> doesn't exist, Then create it. -- Piet van Oostrum URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4] Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org From aahz at pythoncraft.com Sat Aug 1 19:36:58 2009 From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) Date: 1 Aug 2009 16:36:58 -0700 Subject: string.Template issue References: Message-ID: In article , Javier Collado wrote: > >In the string.Template documentation >(http://docs.python.org/library/string.html) it's explained that if a >custom regular expression for pattern substitution is needed, it's >possible to override idpattern class attribute (whose default value is >[_a-z][_a-z0-9]*). > >However, if the custom pattern that is needed is just uppercase >letters something like [A-Z]+ won't work because of the following line >in the _TemplateMetaclass class __init__ method: >cls.pattern = _re.compile(pattern, _re.IGNORECASE | _re.VERBOSE) > >I would say that this is an error (IGNORECASE just shouldn't be there) Good point! I don't have an answer for you, but please file a report at bugs.python.org to make sure it doesn't get lost. -- Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/ "Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer From david.lyon at preisshare.net Sat Aug 1 20:26:19 2009 From: david.lyon at preisshare.net (David Lyon) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 20:26:19 -0400 Subject: Newbie thwarted by sys.path on Vista In-Reply-To: <7djs50F2bsubuU1@mid.individual.net> References: <7djs50F2bsubuU1@mid.individual.net> Message-ID: <73ddb9b5d0110a42e2831eb6c150d2a8@preisshare.net> On Sat, 1 Aug 2009 22:58:53 +0100, "Michael M Mason" wrote: > I'm running Python 3.1 on Vista and I can't figure out how to add my own > directory to sys.path. > > The docs suggest that I can either add it to the PYTHONPATH environment > variable or to the PythonPath key in the registry. However, PYTHONPATH > doesn't exist, and updating the registry key has no effect > > So where does sys.path get its value from, and how do I change it? The simplest hack (worst - but most direct) is that sys.path is a list and you can use it like any other list. (add, delete, change items in it) It gets loaded from site.py (in the standardard library) at startup. Anything else you'll have to ask somebody else. David From davea at ieee.org Sat Aug 1 20:29:12 2009 From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 20:29:12 -0400 Subject: Newbie thwarted by sys.path on Vista In-Reply-To: <7djs50F2bsubuU1@mid.individual.net> References: <7djs50F2bsubuU1@mid.individual.net> Message-ID: <4A74DDD8.7020304@ieee.org> Michael M Mason wrote: >
I'm > running Python 3.1 on Vista and I can't figure out how to add my own > directory to sys.path. > > The docs suggest that I can either add it to the PYTHONPATH > environment variable or to the PythonPath key in the registry. > However, PYTHONPATH doesn't exist, and updating the registry key has > no effect (and in any case the contents aren't the same as sys.path). > > So where does sys.path get its value from, and how do I change it? > sys.path gets its values from several places. The ones I think I know of are: current directory (which uses "" rather than the expected ".") directories listed in PythonPath environment variable Windows-system directory relative to the executable (python.exe or pythonw.exe) that's actually running relative to the user directory (docs&settings/username/Application Data .... If there's no PythonPath variable, it just uses those other items. I have no idea what it gets from the registry entries. Anyway, I'd suggest adding it to PythonPath, and if it's empty, just create it with the directory you need. I'm hoping you know you can also add to sys.path directly during script initialization. It's just a list, and is writeable. From joongkoo.cho at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 20:43:57 2009 From: joongkoo.cho at gmail.com (Joongkoo Cho) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 17:43:57 -0700 Subject: Shortest path code on real map Message-ID: Dear All, I'm trying to calculate shortest paths on US highway map. I understand how shortest path algorithms work in Python but I need helps to do it on real maps. How can I make link-node information? Best, John -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au Sat Aug 1 21:06:47 2009 From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano) Date: 02 Aug 2009 01:06:47 GMT Subject: Custom namespaces Message-ID: <0284d760$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> I was playing around with a custom mapping type, and I wanted to use it as a namespace, so I tried to use it as my module __dict__: >>> import __main__ >>> __main__.__dict__ = MyNamespace() Traceback (most recent call last): File "", line 1, in TypeError: readonly attribute Why is __dict__ made read-only? I next thought I could change the type of the namespace to my class: >>> __main__.__dict__.__class__ = MyNamespace Traceback (most recent call last): File "", line 1, in TypeError: __class__ assignment: only for heap types Drat, foiled again!!! Okay, if I can't do this at the module level, can I at least install a custom namespace at the class level? >>> class MyNamespace(dict): ... def __getitem__(self, key): ... print "Looking up key '%s'" % key ... return super(MyNamespace, self).__getitem__(key) ... >>> namespace = MyNamespace(x=1, y=2, z=3) >>> namespace['x'] Looking up key 'x' 1 >>> C = new.classobj("C", (object,), namespace) >>> C.x 1 Apparently not. It looks like the namespace provided to the class constructor gets copied when the class is made. Interestingly enough, the namespace argument gets modified *before* it gets copied, which has an unwanted side-effect: >>> namespace {'y': 2, 'x': 1, '__module__': '__main__', 'z': 3, '__doc__': None} Is there any way to install a custom type as a namespace? -- Steven From redforks at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 21:11:45 2009 From: redforks at gmail.com (Red Forks) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 09:11:45 +0800 Subject: string.Template issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3f18b3f10908011811t6947fbf2t335370c676889062@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 4:17 PM, Javier Collado wrote: > Hello, > > In the string.Template documentation > (http://docs.python.org/library/string.html) it's explained that if a > custom regular expression for pattern substitution is needed, it's > possible to override idpattern class attribute (whose default value is > [_a-z][_a-z0-9]*). > > However, if the custom pattern that is needed is just uppercase > letters something like [A-Z]+ won't work because of the following line > in the _TemplateMetaclass class __init__ method: > cls.pattern = _re.compile(pattern, _re.IGNORECASE | _re.VERBOSE) derive a new class, and replace __init__ method, or replace _TemplateMetaclass.__init__() method. > > > I would say that this is an error (IGNORECASE just shouldn't be there) > and that the line above should be: > cls.pattern = _re.compile(pattern, _re.VERBOSE) > and the default value for idpattern: > [_a-zA-Z][_a-zA-Z0-9]* > > Do you agree on this? Is there any reason for the IGNORECASE option to > be passed to re.compile? > > Best regards, > Javier > -- > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From redforks at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 21:18:58 2009 From: redforks at gmail.com (Red Forks) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 09:18:58 +0800 Subject: Custom namespaces In-Reply-To: <0284d760$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> References: <0284d760$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Message-ID: <3f18b3f10908011818x711e49ccg575eb4eb7363f261@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Steven D'Aprano < steve at remove-this-cybersource.com.au> wrote: > I was playing around with a custom mapping type, and I wanted to use it > as a namespace, so I tried to use it as my module __dict__: > > >>> import __main__ > >>> __main__.__dict__ = MyNamespace() > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "", line 1, in > TypeError: readonly attribute > > Why is __dict__ made read-only? to protect module type? Use .update() method: __main.__.__dict__.update(MyNamespace()) You can create your own Module instance: from types import ModuleType m = ModuleType('modulename') and make a sub class of ModuleType is also OK > > > I next thought I could change the type of the namespace to my class: > > >>> __main__.__dict__.__class__ = MyNamespace > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "", line 1, in > TypeError: __class__ assignment: only for heap types > > Drat, foiled again!!! > > Okay, if I can't do this at the module level, can I at least install a > custom namespace at the class level? > > >>> class MyNamespace(dict): > ... def __getitem__(self, key): > ... print "Looking up key '%s'" % key > ... return super(MyNamespace, self).__getitem__(key) > ... > >>> namespace = MyNamespace(x=1, y=2, z=3) > >>> namespace['x'] > Looking up key 'x' > 1 > >>> C = new.classobj("C", (object,), namespace) > >>> C.x > 1 > > Apparently not. It looks like the namespace provided to the class > constructor gets copied when the class is made. > > Interestingly enough, the namespace argument gets modified *before* it > gets copied, which has an unwanted side-effect: > > >>> namespace > {'y': 2, 'x': 1, '__module__': '__main__', 'z': 3, '__doc__': None} > > > Is there any way to install a custom type as a namespace? > > > > -- > Steven > -- > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dciphercomputing at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 21:25:10 2009 From: dciphercomputing at gmail.com (Simon) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 18:25:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Newbie Question regarding __init__() References: Message-ID: <6ccf5dbe-4b71-4159-88bb-c6a14aa785a9@k26g2000vbp.googlegroups.com> Okay I will fix my code and include "self" and see what happens. I know I tried that before and got another error which I suspect was another newbie error. The idea behind the init_Pre is that I can put custom code here to customize the __init__ instead of creating a new subclass. This kind of hook pattern allows you to flatten your inheritance hierarchy. I can choose in the init_Pre method to execute code before the init_exec (which contains the default __init__ code) and still execute the init_Exec method or I can completely customize the entire __init__ by returning False from init_Pre and prevent the init_Exec from being called. I use this type of pattern with almost all my methods. In this way I can create a less complicated inheritance chain but still have have custom code when needed without sub-classing. I am use to Visual FoxPro which where you can do =This.init_Pre().And.This.init_Exec() and the result is discarded so that is why it looks the way it does. In this form init_Exec has to return a value. However, If self.init_Pre(): self.init_Exec() would work the same and then I could avoid returning a value. Thanks, Simon On Aug 1, 5:52?am, Dave Angel wrote: > Nat Williams wrote: > > As MRAB described, ALL instance methods need to accept 'self' as a first > > parameter, as that will be passed to them implicitly when they are called. > > This includes __init__. ?The name 'self' is just a commonly accepted > > convention for the name of the instance object passed to methods. ?You don't > > have to call it that, but you really should. > > > Take a look athttp://docs.python.org/tutorial/classes.html#class-objects > > It might help shed some light on how methods and instances work. > > > One other thing. ?I'm a little confused by the first line of > > dcObject.__init__: > > > self.init_Pre() and self.init_Exec() > > > I suspect this does not do what you think it does. ?init_Pre and init_Exec > > will both be called by this expression (unless init_Pre throws an exception, > > of course). ?You're not getting anything here that you wouldn't by just > > calling each method on a separate line, except just making it harder to > > read. > > Read the doc-string for init_Pre() and for init_Exec(). ?The final > version of init_Pre() will return False in some circumstances, and in > those circumstances Simon doesn't want init_Exec() to be called. ?He's > deliberately using the short-circuit evaluation of ?'and' ?to accomplish > that. > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 8:53 PM, Simon wrote: > > >> Hi > > >> So should the dcObject class include the "self" as well since I have > >> not defined an __init__ method in dcCursor? > > >> Simon > > >> -- > >>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list > > Every one of those methods in both of those classes need a "self" first > argument. ?As others have said, all instance methods need a 'self.' From sturlamolden at yahoo.no Sat Aug 1 21:31:15 2009 From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 18:31:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Help understanding the decisions *behind* python? References: Message-ID: <988a5f49-7907-4351-bfd0-7bb05e821795@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> On 20 Jul, 18:27, Phillip B Oldham wrote: > We're not looking to start any arguments or religious wars and we're > not asking that python be changed into something its not. We'd simply > like to understand the decision behind the lists and tuple structures. > We feel that in not "getting" the difference between the two types we > may be missing out on using these data structures to their full > potential. A crude simplification would be: - A Python programmer will use a tuple where a C programmer will use a struct. - Python and C programmers use lists and arrays similarly. Tuples are used for passing arguments to and from a function. Common use of tuples include multiple return values and optional arguments (*args). It has already been mentioned that tuples are immutable and can be used as dictionary keys. From skip at pobox.com Sat Aug 1 21:38:46 2009 From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 01:38:46 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Wrapping prstat on Solaris References: <1bce2ffd-85cb-4860-8b3e-92d8e1619a46@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: > You haven't told us how you are actually reading from prstat's output > pipe, which may be the cause. For instance, if you are doing > > for line in pipe: > print line > ... > > then this could cause your buffering issue. > > Instead try using readline(): > > while True: > line = pipe.readline() > ... Yes, I've been using for line in pipe. Switching to your construct seems to work like a charm. Thanks, Skip From fatkinson at mishmash.com Sat Aug 1 21:50:48 2009 From: fatkinson at mishmash.com (Fred Atkinson) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 18:50:48 -0700 Subject: Get Cliet IP Address Message-ID: What is the function to obtain the client browser's IP address? Fred From fatkinson at mishmash.com Sat Aug 1 21:56:33 2009 From: fatkinson at mishmash.com (Fred Atkinson) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 18:56:33 -0700 Subject: Predefined Variables References: <7cr6siF28oinaU2@mid.uni-berlin.de> Message-ID: <4gs9755f299j7ueitf422hh2vna32f358o@4ax.com> On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 15:28:50 +0200, "Diez B. Roggisch" wrote: >Fred Atkinson wrote: > >> Is there a pre-defined variable that returns the GET line >> (http://www.php.net/index.php?everythingafterthequestionmark) as a >> single variable (rather than individual variables)? > >Variables don't return things. Functions do. And additionally the answer >depends on what and with what you actually do. > >Diez I want to display the client browser's IP address on the Web page. I'd like to create a variable like this: ip = somefunction(). Then I can print the IP address on the Web page and/or log it in an error file. Fred From sturlamolden at yahoo.no Sat Aug 1 22:19:43 2009 From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 19:19:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Help understanding the decisions *behind* python? References: <86b332b3-2da0-44e0-b29f-d930136635df@u16g2000pru.googlegroups.com> <4677d753-364f-4d29-9091-e55008daec83@12g2000pri.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <78d2801f-790c-475b-8953-23094482637f@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> On 31 Jul, 23:43, Raymond Hettinger wrote: >?More than one person here has > observed that the time to learn to program Pythonically is inversely > proportional to their experience in Java. I believe it is opposite. The longer the Java experience, the longer it takes to program pythonically. The correlation is not inverse. In particular, programmers accustomed to Java or C++ seem to use for- loops awfully lot. And when they do, they always loop over a sequence of integers, and use these as array indices. They consequently use a class where a tuple would be more appropriate, never return multiple values from functions, etc. Due to their coding style, they produce programs that are notoriously inefficient, and blame this on 'Python being slow'. Unlearning the idioms from Java takes a while. Python is not Java and should not be programmed as such. On the other hand, I found that my experience with MATLAB helped me a lot on picking up a pythonical style quickly. From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz Sat Aug 1 22:19:45 2009 From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (greg) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 14:19:45 +1200 Subject: Python processors? : WAS Re: Does python have the capability for driver development ? In-Reply-To: <2d8298b9-b857-4b3d-ae63-2056d80cdf7f@d4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> References: <4a7151b2$0$17782$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr> <2d8298b9-b857-4b3d-ae63-2056d80cdf7f@d4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <7dkbcqF2c6aqgU1@mid.individual.net> Francesco Bochicchio wrote: > I wonder: has anybody thought of making a python-machine, or at least > a processor able to directly execute high-level bytecode (LLVM-like?). In some of my idle moments I've speculated on what such a machine might be like. One of my ideas for potential future projects is to flesh out the design and maybe even build an FPGA prototype. It would purely be for fun, though. It's unlikely that such a processor would be able to compete speed-wise with a general-purpose CPU running a Python interpreter with critical libraries written in C. That's what killed things like the Lisp machine. Their developers couldn't keep up with the huge resources that people like Intel and Motorola had to throw at CPU development, so eventually a general-purpose CPU could run Lisp faster than a Lisp machine. -- Greg From sturlamolden at yahoo.no Sat Aug 1 22:44:17 2009 From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 19:44:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: fast video encoding References: <570097d0-2b2a-4705-892f-0d0154d69d63@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <0c8cfac7-0a70-4e1f-90ec-19e9c45cae89@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> On 29 Jul, 10:14, gregorth wrote: > for a scientific application I need to save a video stream to disc for > further post processing. I have worked a bit on this as well. There are two things that make scientific applications different form common video encoding: First, a scientific video stream is often very different from a 'movie': There are usually very little 'movement'. For example, when I have filmed a mouse swimming in a water maze (a pool of milky white water), the only thing that moves is the rat. So I could achieve excellent compression just by saving the pixels that changed. Second, scientific data should be stored with lossless compression if possible. Common video codecs are aimed at films and home video, not scientific video streams. I don't know how your data are, but I would be very picky about the codec. And chances are you will be better off home-brewing your own domain specific compression. If you need to store large amounts of scientific data, consider using something like a HDF5 database for storage. There are two Python wrappers for HDF5 that I know of (h5py and PyTables). From nobody at nowhere.com Sat Aug 1 22:47:59 2009 From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 03:47:59 +0100 Subject: Help understanding the decisions *behind* python? References: <86b332b3-2da0-44e0-b29f-d930136635df@u16g2000pru.googlegroups.com> <4677d753-364f-4d29-9091-e55008daec83@12g2000pri.googlegroups.com> <78d2801f-790c-475b-8953-23094482637f@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 01 Aug 2009 19:19:43 -0700, sturlamolden wrote: >>?More than one person here has >> observed that the time to learn to program Pythonically is inversely >> proportional to their experience in Java. > > I believe it is opposite. The longer the Java experience, the longer > it takes to program pythonically. The correlation is not inverse. In > particular, programmers accustomed to Java or C++ seem to use for- > loops awfully lot. And when they do, they always loop over a sequence > of integers, and use these as array indices. It would be more accurate to say that of programmers who are *only* accustomed to Java or C++. I've been using C for 80-90% of my code for 25 years, and I wouldn't normally loop over the indices. But then the other 10-20% is Lisp, Tcl, Haskell, PostScript and, more recently, Python. OTOH, using a "for" loop when you could use a generator means less work when you need to make a minor change and a generator is no longer sufficient. From sturlamolden at yahoo.no Sat Aug 1 23:00:32 2009 From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 20:00:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Does python have the capability for driver development ? References: <87skgf83ua.fsf@rsw.digi.com.br> <94abbddc-dac7-4215-84d1-d4eb3f82724d@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: On 30 Jul, 02:19, MalC0de wrote: > actually I mean driver programming under Windows operating system, if > you know, there's A kit name DDK available at microsoft's website for > developing device drivers under C / C++ environment, Actually, Microsoft has replaced DDK with a new kit called WDK for Vista. The funny thing about WDK is that there are a lot of illegal C and C++ in the headers, which even Microsoft's own compiler refuse to accept. So good luck on getting anything to compile. From darkneter at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 23:04:05 2009 From: darkneter at gmail.com (NighterNet) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 20:04:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: socket policy flash help References: <04e26f53-5f51-476d-823e-47bfeed9b2a8@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com> <8bede581-f260-4c69-abf0-1e8071380b76@z4g2000prh.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <7e6cdc26-bcc0-4503-b7b4-9ad80b1041f6@v37g2000prg.googlegroups.com> Here the full code. flashpolicy.xml [[[ ]]] flashpolicytest_server3x.py [[[ #!/usr/local/bin/python ''' Still under testing... python version 3.x.x ''' import socket import threading import sys import os file_name = 'flashpolicy.xml' fh = open(file_name, "r") policy = fh.read(10001) host = ''; #out side network port = 5555; print ("# ------------- Init... ------------- #"); class ClientThread (threading.Thread): global policy; allClients = []; vlock = threading.Lock(); id = 0 # next available thread number def __init__(self,clientSocket): threading.Thread.__init__(self) self.sockfd = clientSocket; #socket client self.name = ''; ClientThread.id += 1 self.id = ClientThread.id self.nickName = ''; self.allClients.append(self.sockfd); def sendAll(self,buff): for index,clientSock in enumerate(self.allClients): try: clientSock.send(buff); except (socket.error): print ('error socket %s\n',index,"| clean"); clientSock.close() del self.allClients[index] def run(self): while True: buff = self.sockfd.recv(1028); if not buff: print ("connect close...(client side)"); self.sockfd.close(); break #incase it loop infinite if str(buff) == str("b\'\\x00\'"): print ('policy FOUND >>> sending...') print(buff) b = b'' print (b) self.sockfd.send(b); self.sockfd.sendall(b); print(buff); self.sendAll(buff) self.sockfd.close() print ("# ------------- Init... Listen Client ------------- #\n"); try: server = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET6, socket.SOCK_STREAM) except AttributeError: # AttributeError catches Python built without IPv6 server = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM) except socket.error: # socket.error catches OS with IPv6 disabled server = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM) server.setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET, socket.SO_REUSEADDR, 1) server.bind((host,port)) server.listen(5) print ("Server Up Listen!",host,":",port," Bind!"); while True: (clientSocket, address) = server.accept(); print("client connect from :",address); ct = ClientThread(clientSocket); print(ct.id); ct.start(); ]]] Some odd reason I can't send flash policy from python to flash socket to agrees with the connection. From fatkinson at mishmash.com Sat Aug 1 23:07:21 2009 From: fatkinson at mishmash.com (Fred Atkinson) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 20:07:21 -0700 Subject: Predefined Variables References: <7cr6siF28oinaU2@mid.uni-berlin.de> <4gs9755f299j7ueitf422hh2vna32f358o@4ax.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 01 Aug 2009 18:56:33 -0700, Fred Atkinson wrote: >On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 15:28:50 +0200, "Diez B. Roggisch" > wrote: > >>Fred Atkinson wrote: >> >>> Is there a pre-defined variable that returns the GET line >>> (http://www.php.net/index.php?everythingafterthequestionmark) as a >>> single variable (rather than individual variables)? >> >>Variables don't return things. Functions do. And additionally the answer >>depends on what and with what you actually do. >> >>Diez > > I want to display the client browser's IP address on the Web >page. > > I'd like to create a variable like this: ip = somefunction(). > Then I can print the IP address on the Web page and/or log it >in an error file. > > > > Fred I replied to the wrong post. Sorry. I want to do something like this: string = os.environment('QUERY_STRING') If this is the string in the URL: http://www.someurl.com/cgi-bin/somescript.cgi?anythingafterthequestionmark 'string' should now contain the value 'everythingafterthequestionmark' When I use the os.environment('QUERY_STRING'), it doesn't work. Is there something I should import to make this function work? Or what else is wrong? Fred From sturlamolden at yahoo.no Sat Aug 1 23:10:00 2009 From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 20:10:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Help understanding the decisions *behind* python? References: <86b332b3-2da0-44e0-b29f-d930136635df@u16g2000pru.googlegroups.com> <4677d753-364f-4d29-9091-e55008daec83@12g2000pri.googlegroups.com> <78d2801f-790c-475b-8953-23094482637f@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <8a15492e-c9ab-47be-afea-cde3065413b1@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> On 2 Aug, 04:47, Nobody wrote: > OTOH, using a "for" loop when you could use a generator means less work > when you need to make a minor change and a generator is no longer > sufficient. It's not just that. It is e.g. using a for loop and indexes instead of a slice. E.g. for i in range(10): # Java idiom a[i] = b[i+1] instead of a[:10] = b[1:11] # Pythonic From sturlamolden at yahoo.no Sat Aug 1 23:24:11 2009 From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 20:24:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Help understanding the decisions *behind* python? References: <86b332b3-2da0-44e0-b29f-d930136635df@u16g2000pru.googlegroups.com> <200907312048.03922.emmanuel.surleau@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2ff11bfc-9101-4b29-8b71-1627d85f799e@18g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> On 31 Jul, 21:31, Masklinn wrote: > It's intuitive if you come to Python knowing other languages with ? > tuples (which are mostly functional, and in which tuples are *never* ? > sequences/iterables). At the end of the day, and if Guido's intention ? > truly was what Raymond says, implementing tuples as immutable sequence ? > was a mistake. And the documentation is to blame as well: in it, ? > tuples are clearly described as a *sequence* type, not a *structure* ? > type. That depends on the readers' preconceptions: Only when the reader have knowledge of C structs, Pascal records, or Java classes should this matter. The na?ve reader will not have preconceptions about a difference between "structure types" and "sequence types". A more advanced C programmer will also know that a struct is a form of a sequence in C: you can e.g. memcpy any struct to a char array. From zooko at zooko.com Sun Aug 2 00:14:49 2009 From: zooko at zooko.com (Zooko Wilcox-O'Hearn) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 22:14:49 -0600 Subject: ANNOUNCING Tahoe, the Lofty-Atmospheric Filesystem, v1.5 Message-ID: <9CE7ACE7-219C-4097-8543-928E05651387@zooko.com> Dear people of python-list: Python is our preferred programming language for the Tahoe-LAFS project. We use C/C++ extension modules for the CPU-intensive parts, and we interoperate with many languages through the RESTful web API, but the core code is 100% Python. Regards, Zooko --- The Tahoe-LAFS team is pleased to announce the immediate availability of version 1.5 of Tahoe, the Lofty Atmospheric File System. Tahoe-LAFS is the first cloud storage technology which offers security and privacy in the sense that the cloud storage service provider itself can't read or alter your data. Here is the one-page explanation of its unique security and fault-tolerance properties: http://allmydata.org/source/tahoe/trunk/docs/about.html This release is the successor to v1.4.1, which was released April 13, 2009 [1]. This is a major new release, improving the user interface and performance and fixing a few bugs, and adding ports to OpenBSD, NetBSD, ArchLinux, NixOS, and embedded systems built on ARM CPUs. See the NEWS file [2] for more information. In addition to the functionality of Tahoe-LAFS itself, a crop of related projects have sprung up to extend it and to integrate it into operating systems and applications. These include frontends for Windows, Macintosh, JavaScript, and iPhone, and plugins for duplicity, bzr, Hadoop, and TiddlyWiki, and more. See the Related Projects page on the wiki [3]. COMPATIBILITY Version 1.5 is fully compatible with the version 1 series of Tahoe-LAFS. Files written by v1.5 clients can be read by clients of all versions back to v1.0. v1.5 clients can read files produced by clients of all versions since v1.0. v1.5 servers can serve clients of all versions back to v1.0 and v1.5 clients can use servers of all versions back to v1.0. This is the sixth release in the version 1 series. The version 1 series of Tahoe-LAFS will be actively supported and maintained for the forseeable future, and future versions of Tahoe-LAFS will retain the ability to read and write files compatible with Tahoe-LAFS v1. The version 1 series of Tahoe-LAFS is the basis of the consumer backup product from Allmydata, Inc. -- http://allmydata.com . WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR? With Tahoe-LAFS, you can distribute your filesystem across a set of servers, such that if some of them fail or even turn out to be malicious, the entire filesystem continues to be available. You can share your files with other users, using a simple and flexible access control scheme. We believe that the combination of erasure coding, strong encryption, Free/Open Source Software and careful engineering make Tahoe-LAFS safer than RAID, removable drive, tape, on-line backup or other Cloud storage systems. This software comes with extensive tests, and there are no known security flaws which would compromise confidentiality or data integrity in typical use. (For all currently known issues please see the known_issues.txt file [4].) LICENCE You may use this package under the GNU General Public License, version 2 or, at your option, any later version. See the file "COPYING.GPL" [5] for the terms of the GNU General Public License, version 2. You may use this package under the Transitive Grace Period Public Licence, version 1 or, at your option, any later version. (The Transitive Grace Period Public Licence has requirements similar to the GPL except that it allows you to wait for up to twelve months after you redistribute a derived work before releasing the source code of your derived work.) See the file "COPYING.TGPPL.html" [6] for the terms of the Transitive Grace Period Public Licence, version 1. (You may choose to use this package under the terms of either licence, at your option.) INSTALLATION Tahoe-LAFS works on Linux, Mac OS X, Windows, Cygwin, Solaris, *BSD, and probably most other systems. Start with "docs/install.html" [7]. HACKING AND COMMUNITY Please join us on the mailing list [8]. Patches are gratefully accepted -- the RoadMap page [9] shows the next improvements that we plan to make and CREDITS [10] lists the names of people who've contributed to the project. The Dev page [11] contains resources for hackers. SPONSORSHIP Tahoe-LAFS was originally developed thanks to the sponsorship of Allmydata, Inc. [12], a provider of commercial backup services. Allmydata, Inc. created the Tahoe-LAFS project and contributed hardware, software, ideas, bug reports, suggestions, demands, and money (employing several Tahoe-LAFS hackers and instructing them to spend part of their work time on this Free Software project). Also they awarded customized t-shirts to hackers who found security flaws in Tahoe-LAFS (see http://hacktahoe.org ). After discontinuing funding of Tahoe-LAFS R&D in early 2009, Allmydata, Inc. has continued to provide servers, co-lo space and bandwidth to the open source project. Thank you to Allmydata, Inc. for their generous and public-spirited support. This is the second release of Tahoe-LAFS which was created solely as a labor of love by volunteers; developer time is no longer funded by allmydata.com (see [13] for details). Zooko Wilcox-O'Hearn on behalf of the Tahoe-LAFS team Special acknowledgment goes to Brian Warner, whose superb engineering skills and dedication are primarily responsible for the Tahoe implementation, and significantly responsible for the Tahoe design as well, not to mention most of the docs and tests. Tahoe-LAFS wouldn't exist without him. August 1, 2009 Boulder, Colorado, USA P.S. Just kidding about that acronym. "LAFS" actually stands for "Lightweight Authorization File System". Or possibly for "Least-Authority File System". There is no truth to the rumour that it actually stands for "Long-lived Axe-tolerant File System". [1] http://allmydata.org/trac/tahoe/browser/relnotes.txt?rev=3853 [2] http://allmydata.org/trac/tahoe/browser/NEWS?rev=4033 [3] http://allmydata.org/trac/tahoe/wiki/RelatedProjects [4] http://allmydata.org/trac/tahoe/browser/docs/known_issues.txt [5] http://allmydata.org/trac/tahoe/browser/COPYING.GPL [6] http://allmydata.org/source/tahoe/trunk/COPYING.TGPPL.html [7] http://allmydata.org/source/tahoe/trunk/docs/install.html [8] http://allmydata.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tahoe-dev [9] http://allmydata.org/trac/tahoe/roadmap [10] http://allmydata.org/trac/tahoe/browser/CREDITS?rev=4035 [11] http://allmydata.org/trac/tahoe/wiki/Dev [12] http://allmydata.com [13] http://allmydata.org/pipermail/tahoe-dev/2009-March/001461.html From clp2 at rebertia.com Sun Aug 2 00:46:35 2009 From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 21:46:35 -0700 Subject: Custom namespaces In-Reply-To: <0284d760$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> References: <0284d760$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Message-ID: <50697b2c0908012146p11c58419s7d33aa9a2a048f46@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 6:06 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > I was playing around with a custom mapping type, and I wanted to use it > as a namespace, so I tried to use it as my module __dict__: > >>>> import __main__ >>>> __main__.__dict__ = MyNamespace() > Traceback (most recent call last): > ?File "", line 1, in > TypeError: readonly attribute > > Why is __dict__ made read-only? > > I next thought I could change the type of the namespace to my class: > >>>> __main__.__dict__.__class__ = MyNamespace > Traceback (most recent call last): > ?File "", line 1, in > TypeError: __class__ assignment: only for heap types > > Drat, foiled again!!! > > Okay, if I can't do this at the module level, can I at least install a > custom namespace at the class level? > Apparently not. It looks like the namespace provided to the class > constructor gets copied when the class is made. > Is there any way to install a custom type as a namespace? For classes/objects, yes, using metaclasses. See the __prepare__() method in PEP 3115: http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3115/ Cheers, Chris -- http://blog.rebertia.com From bhardwajjayesh7 at gmail.com Sun Aug 2 02:11:43 2009 From: bhardwajjayesh7 at gmail.com (golu) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 23:11:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: cgi script Message-ID: Hi, i started learning cgi few days ago in python and everything went fine until i started getting the follwing error " The server encountered an internal error and was unable to complete your request. Either the server is overloaded or there was an error in a CGI script. If you think this is a server error, please contact the webmaster. " i am using apache on xampp. plz help From michael at altra-optics.co.uk Sun Aug 2 02:34:56 2009 From: michael at altra-optics.co.uk (Michael M Mason) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 07:34:56 +0100 Subject: Newbie thwarted by sys.path on Vista In-Reply-To: References: <7djs50F2bsubuU1@mid.individual.net> Message-ID: <7dks7jF2ccjstU1@mid.individual.net> "Dave Angel" wrote in message news:mailman.4120.1249172970.8015.python-list at python.org... > Michael M Mason wrote: >>
I'm running >> Python 3.1 on Vista and I can't figure out how to add my own directory to >> sys.path. Thanks to Jon, Piet, David and Dave for the responses. > sys.path gets its values from several places. Ah, I'd misunderstood the docs: I thought it came from just one place (which I couldn't find). > Anyway, I'd suggest adding it to PythonPath, and if it's empty, just > create it with the directory you need. Thanks--that worked! > I'm hoping you know you can also add to sys.path directly during script > initialization. It's just a list, and is writeable. Yes, but I'm mainly playing in IDLE and I was getting a bit fed up of repeatedly typing import sys sys.path.append('C:/Users/Michael/Code/Python') import mystuff -- Michael From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au Sun Aug 2 02:47:41 2009 From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano) Date: 02 Aug 2009 06:47:41 GMT Subject: Python processors? : WAS Re: Does python have the capability for driver development ? References: <4a7151b2$0$17782$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr> <2d8298b9-b857-4b3d-ae63-2056d80cdf7f@d4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> <7dkbcqF2c6aqgU1@mid.individual.net> Message-ID: <02852746$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 14:19:45 +1200, greg wrote: > That's what killed things like the Lisp machine. Their developers > couldn't keep up with the huge resources that people like Intel and > Motorola had to throw at CPU development, so eventually a > general-purpose CPU could run Lisp faster than a Lisp machine. When you say "eventually", I think you mean "decades ago". I recall a collaboration between Apple and Texas Instruments to build a Macintosh with a Lisp Machine in the late 1980s. From the one box, you could run two computers simultaneously, with two operating systems, one running the Motorola 68020 and the other a Lisp Machine processor. I don't think it sold very well -- by memory, benchmarks showed that for half (or less) of the price, you could run Lisp in software on a vanilla Mac and the software would be faster than running it on the Lisp Machine. TI also had at least one Nubus card for the Mac running a Lisp Machine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TI_Explorer On a similar note, there were Forth machines also available for the Apple Macintosh. Unlike Lisp, I think they suffered from the general lack of popularity of Forth rather than lack of speed. -- Steven From efotinis at oohay.com Sun Aug 2 02:59:41 2009 From: efotinis at oohay.com (eliasf) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 09:59:41 +0300 Subject: Get Cliet IP Address In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1249196395.629238@athprx04> "Fred Atkinson" wrote: > What is the function to obtain the client browser's IP > address? Do you mean the external public IP to the Internet? When I wanted to log the dynamic IP that my ADSL connection gets, I used whatismyip.com like this: import urllib2 QUERY_URL = 'http://www.whatismyip.com/automation/n09230945.asp' def query(): """Get IP as a string. As per the whatismyip.com automation rules, this function should not be called more ofter than every 5 minutes. """ return urllib2.urlopen(QUERY_URL).read() There's probably a better way, but I'm not very good with networking. :o) From pavlovevidence at gmail.com Sun Aug 2 03:14:41 2009 From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 00:14:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: cgi script References: Message-ID: <007247ae-53b8-4ce7-ad85-eb332b455f41@2g2000prl.googlegroups.com> On Aug 1, 11:11?pm, golu wrote: > Hi, > i started learning cgi few days ago in python and everything went > fine ?until i started getting the follwing error > " > The server encountered an internal error and was unable to complete > your request. Either the server is overloaded or there was an error in > a CGI script. Your script has a syntax error. (You forgot a colon or something like that.) If you can, try to run the file directly from a Python interpreter to see where the error is. Carl Banks From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au Sun Aug 2 03:18:53 2009 From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano) Date: 02 Aug 2009 07:18:53 GMT Subject: Custom namespaces References: <0284d760$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Message-ID: <02852e95$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> On Sat, 01 Aug 2009 21:46:35 -0700, Chris Rebert wrote: >> Is there any way to install a custom type as a namespace? > > For classes/objects, yes, using metaclasses. See the __prepare__() > method in PEP 3115: http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3115/ Looks good, but that's Python 3 only, yes? At least, I can't get the metaclass to change the __dict__ in Python 2.6. There's obviously no __prepare__ before 3.0, but I tried the following, and still __dict__ ends up as a regular dict. Am I missing something? class VerboseDict(dict): def __getitem__(self, item): print ("Looking up key '%s'..." % item) return super(VerboseDict, self).__getitem__(item) class Meta(type): def __new__(cls, name, bases, namespace): namespace = VerboseDict(namespace) obj = super(Meta, cls).__new__(cls, name, bases, namespace) return obj MyClass = Meta('MyClass', (object,), dict(x=1, y=2)) -- Steven From clp2 at rebertia.com Sun Aug 2 03:31:05 2009 From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 00:31:05 -0700 Subject: Custom namespaces In-Reply-To: <02852e95$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> References: <0284d760$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> <02852e95$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Message-ID: <50697b2c0908020031h32fadb65ye7e306138205a751@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 12:18 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Sat, 01 Aug 2009 21:46:35 -0700, Chris Rebert wrote: > >>> Is there any way to install a custom type as a namespace? >> >> For classes/objects, yes, using metaclasses. See the __prepare__() >> method in PEP 3115: http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3115/ > > Looks good, but that's Python 3 only, yes? Correct. > At least, I can't get the metaclass to change the __dict__ in Python 2.6. > There's obviously no __prepare__ before 3.0, but I tried the following, > and still __dict__ ends up as a regular dict. Am I missing something? > > > class VerboseDict(dict): > ? ?def __getitem__(self, item): > ? ? ? ?print ("Looking up key '%s'..." % item) > ? ? ? ?return super(VerboseDict, self).__getitem__(item) > > class Meta(type): > ? ?def __new__(cls, name, bases, namespace): > ? ? ? ?namespace = VerboseDict(namespace) > ? ? ? ?obj = super(Meta, cls).__new__(cls, name, bases, namespace) > ? ? ? ?return obj I would /guess/ that type.__new__() is internally doing the equivalent of dict(namespace). Hence why the addition of __prepare__() was necessary; it's probably impossible to accomplish what you want in earlier Python versions. Cheers, Chris -- http://blog.rebertia.com From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au Sun Aug 2 03:35:08 2009 From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano) Date: 02 Aug 2009 07:35:08 GMT Subject: Generate a new object each time a name is imported Message-ID: <02853264$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> I would like to generate a new object each time I import a name from a module, rather than getting the same object each time. For example, currently I might do something like this: # Module count = 0 def factory(): # Generate a unique object each time this is called global count count += 1 return "Object #%d" % count # Calling module from Module import factory a = factory() # a == "Object #1" b = factory() # b == "Object #2" del factory I'm looking for a way to hide the generation of objects from the caller, so I could do something like this: from Module import factory() as a # a == "Object #1" from Module import factory() as b # b == "Object #2" except of course that syntax is illegal. -- Steven From jgardner at jonathangardner.net Sun Aug 2 03:38:22 2009 From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 00:38:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Generate a new object each time a name is imported References: <02853264$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Message-ID: On Aug 2, 12:35?am, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > > I'm looking for a way to hide the generation of objects from the caller, > so I could do something like this: > > from Module import factory() as a ?# a == "Object #1" > from Module import factory() as b ?# b == "Object #2" > Explicit is better than implicit. In other words, I don't see why you need to hide this. Just import the factory function and call it. from Module import factory a = factory() From hniksic at xemacs.org Sun Aug 2 04:23:51 2009 From: hniksic at xemacs.org (Hrvoje Niksic) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 10:23:51 +0200 Subject: Generate a new object each time a name is imported References: <02853264$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Message-ID: <87tz0qei94.fsf@busola.homelinux.net> Steven D'Aprano writes: > I'm looking for a way to hide the generation of objects from the caller, > so I could do something like this: > > from Module import factory() as a # a == "Object #1" > from Module import factory() as b # b == "Object #2" > > except of course that syntax is illegal. That sounds reasonable (zen quotes aside), but it's just not possible in current Python. It would require for any use of "a" in subsequent code to not only refer to an object, but also to automagically call it. I know of no mechanism to do that. While Python allows intricate customization of access to objects, simply referring to a name remains fixed in meaning, probably intentionally. (The "cell" mechanism used to implement closures sounds like it could help, but a cell only stores a single value, not a factory, and it doesn't apply to global variables anyway.) From Ron.Barak at lsi.com Sun Aug 2 04:45:09 2009 From: Ron.Barak at lsi.com (Barak, Ron) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 09:45:09 +0100 Subject: Run pyc file without specifying python path ? In-Reply-To: <4A71D35F.3090800@dejaviewphoto.com> References: <7F0503CD69378F49BE0DC30661C6CCF6701A26C4@enbmail01.lsi.com> <4A708F68.1010505@ieee.org> <7F0503CD69378F49BE0DC30661C6CCF6701A26C7@enbmail01.lsi.com> <4A7199FF.8010202@dejaviewphoto.com> <7F0503CD69378F49BE0DC30661C6CCF6701A26D2@enbmail01.lsi.com> <4A71D35F.3090800@dejaviewphoto.com> Message-ID: <7F0503CD69378F49BE0DC30661C6CCF67D49D30E@enbmail01.lsi.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Angel [mailto:davea at dejaviewphoto.com] > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 20:08 > To: Barak, Ron > Cc: 'python-list at python.org' > Subject: Re: Run pyc file without specifying python path ? > > Barak, Ron wrote: > > Hi Dave, > > > > On second thoughts, I may have a problem implementing the > wrapper solution, because my actual test_pyc.pyc, needs to > parse its command line. > > Namely, the actual call to test_pyc.pyc looks something like this: > > > > $ python test_pyc.py -U dave -PpasswoRD -C CreateMcGroupOnVolume > > --SVMs_IPs '10.1.1.1 , 10.1.1.2' -n "host1,host2" -g gn -j > jn -s svn > > -t tvn -p pool1 -l -c > > > > And I don't know of a way to add these parameters to the "import > > test_pyc" in wrapper > > > > Is there a way to pass information to an imported module ? > (Sorry if there's an obvious answer, I just cannot figure it out). > > > > Bye, > > Ron. > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Dave Angel [mailto:davea at dejaviewphoto.com] > >> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 16:03 > >> To: Barak, Ron > >> Cc: 'Dave Angel'; 'python-list at python.org' > >> Subject: RE: Run pyc file without specifying python path ? > >> > >> Barak, Ron wrote: > >> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: Dave Angel [mailto:davea at ieee.org] > >>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 21:05 > >>>> To: Barak, Ron > >>>> Cc: 'python-list at python.org' > >>>> Subject: Re: Run pyc file without specifying python path ? > >>>> > >>>> Barak, Ron wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> Hi, > >>>>> > >>>>> I wanted to make a python byte-code file executable, > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> expecting to be able to run it without specifying > "python" on the > >>>> (Linux bash) command line. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> So, I wrote the following: > >>>>> > >>>>> [root at VMLinux1 python]# cat test_pyc.py #!/usr/bin/env python > >>>>> > >>>>> print "hello" > >>>>> [root at VMLinux1 python]# > >>>>> > >>>>> and made its pyc file executable: > >>>>> > >>>>> [root at VMLinux1 python]# ls -ls test_pyc.pyc > >>>>> 4 -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 106 Jul 29 14:22 test_pyc.pyc > >>>>> [root at VMLinux1 python]# > >>>>> > >>>>> So, I see: > >>>>> > >>>>> [root at VMLinux1 python]# file test_pyc.py* > >>>>> test_pyc.py: a python script text executable > >>>>> test_pyc.pyc: python 2.3 byte-compiled > >>>>> [root at VMLinux1 python]# > >>>>> > >>>>> If I try to do the following, no problem: > >>>>> > >>>>> [root at VMLinux1 python]# python test_pyc.pyc hello > >>>>> [root at VMLinux1 python]# > >>>>> > >>>>> However, the following fails: > >>>>> > >>>>> [root at VMLinux1 python]# ./test_pyc.pyc > >>>>> -bash: ./test_pyc.pyc: cannot execute binary file > >>>>> [root at VMLinux1 python]# > >>>>> > >>>>> Is there a way to run a pyc file without specifying the > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> python path ? > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> Bye, > >>>>> Ron. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> I don't currently run Unix, but I think I know the problem. > >>>> > >>>> In a text file, the shell examines the first line, and if > >>>> > >> it begins > >> > >>>> #! > >>>> it's assumed to point to the executable of an > interpreter for that > >>>> text file. Presumably the same trick doesn't work for a > .pyc file. > >>>> > >>>> Why not write a trivial wrapper.py file, don't compile > it, and let > >>>> that invoke the main code in the .pyc file? > >>>> > >>>> Then make wrapper.py executable, and you're ready to go. > >>>> > >>>> DaveA > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> Hi Dave, > >>> Your solution sort of defeats my intended purpose (sorry > >>> > >> for not divulging my 'hidden agenda'). > >> > >>> I wanted my application to "hide" the fact that it's a > >>> > >> python script, and look as much as possible like it's a compiled > >> program. > >> > >>> The reason I don't just give my user a py file, is that I > >>> > >> don't want a cleaver user to change the innards of the script. > >> > >>> On the other hand, I don't want to make a compiled > >>> > >> (freezed?) version of the application, because it'll grow the > >> resulting file significantly, and I don't have the > experience to know > >> how it will run on different Linuxes. > >> > >>> Bye, > >>> Ron. > >>> > >>> > >> Most of the other answers basically paraphrased my suggestion of > >> making a wrapper file, not compiling it, and making it > executable. > >> With that > >> approach, the user just types "wrapper.py" on his command line. > >> > >> And wrapper.py only needs two lines, a shebang, and an > import, no big > >> deal if the user modifies it. The rest of your code can be .pyc > >> files. > >> > >> Steven makes some good points. You have to define what level of > >> clever you're protecting from. A determined hacker will get in no > >> matter what you do, unless you want to ship the program in a > >> proprietary embedded system, encased in epoxy. > >> Further, if you have an extension of .py or .pyc, a knowledgeable > >> hacker will know it's probably python. > >> > >> You imply you want it to run unmodifed on multiple unknown Linux > >> versions. I think that lets out binfmt solutions. > >> That means you need to test and support not only multiple Linux > >> implementations, but multiple Python versions, because who > knows what > >> the user may have installed. I think you need to rethink your > >> support strategy. And maybe concentrate on being able to detect > >> change, rather than prevent it. > >> > >> DaveA > >> > >> > >> > >> > (Please don't top-post. It puts responses out of order) > > You don't have to do anything special. Any module can import > sys, and parse sys.argv, as long as it wasn't yet modified. > > DaveA > Hi Dave, It seems like I don't understand your solution. I use the (appatched) soapAPI.py as the wrapper to parsing.pyc. However, if I do (for instance): $ python -u parsing.pyc -U aaa The last line of the output is (as expected): return_code: 12 ; params: {'username': 'aaa'} But, if I try the following: $ soapAPI.py -U aaa I don't get this line. Only the output to stderr gets printed to the screen. Bye, Ron. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: soapAPI.py Type: application/octet-stream Size: 65 bytes Desc: soapAPI.py URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: parsing.py Type: application/octet-stream Size: 9542 bytes Desc: parsing.py URL: From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk Sun Aug 2 04:55:04 2009 From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 09:55:04 +0100 Subject: Newbie thwarted by sys.path on Vista In-Reply-To: <7dks7jF2ccjstU1@mid.individual.net> References: <7djs50F2bsubuU1@mid.individual.net> <7dks7jF2ccjstU1@mid.individual.net> Message-ID: Michael M Mason wrote: > > "Dave Angel" wrote in message > news:mailman.4120.1249172970.8015.python-list at python.org... >> Michael M Mason wrote: >>>
I'm >>> running Python 3.1 on Vista and I can't figure out how to add my own >>> directory to sys.path. > > Thanks to Jon, Piet, David and Dave for the responses. > >> sys.path gets its values from several places. > > Ah, I'd misunderstood the docs: I thought it came from just one place > (which I couldn't find). > >> Anyway, I'd suggest adding it to PythonPath, and if it's empty, just >> create it with the directory you need. > > Thanks--that worked! Be careful, I'm screwed things up on several occasions by placing a file on PYTHONPATH that overrides a file in the standard library, test.py being my favourite! > >> I'm hoping you know you can also add to sys.path directly during >> script initialization. It's just a list, and is writeable. > > Yes, but I'm mainly playing in IDLE and I was getting a bit fed up of > repeatedly typing > import sys > sys.path.append('C:/Users/Michael/Code/Python') > import mystuff > -- Kindest regards. Mark Lawrence. From michael at altra-optics.co.uk Sun Aug 2 05:15:25 2009 From: michael at altra-optics.co.uk (Michael M Mason) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 10:15:25 +0100 Subject: Newbie thwarted by sys.path on Vista In-Reply-To: References: <7djs50F2bsubuU1@mid.individual.net> <7dks7jF2ccjstU1@mid.individual.net> Message-ID: <7dl3pkF2cnqf5U1@mid.individual.net> "Mark Lawrence" wrote in message news:mailman.4130.1249203322.8015.python-list at python.org... > Be careful, I'm screwed things up on several occasions by placing a file > on PYTHONPATH that overrides a file in the standard library, test.py being > my favourite! Thanks. Sure enough, I've already got my own test.py but I hadn't discovered it was a problem yet... -- Michael From davea at ieee.org Sun Aug 2 05:35:34 2009 From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 05:35:34 -0400 Subject: Run pyc file without specifying python path ? In-Reply-To: <7F0503CD69378F49BE0DC30661C6CCF67D49D30E@enbmail01.lsi.com> References: <7F0503CD69378F49BE0DC30661C6CCF6701A26C4@enbmail01.lsi.com> <4A708F68.1010505@ieee.org> <7F0503CD69378F49BE0DC30661C6CCF6701A26C7@enbmail01.lsi.com> <4A7199FF.8010202@dejaviewphoto.com> <7F0503CD69378F49BE0DC30661C6CCF6701A26D2@enbmail01.lsi.com> <4A71D35F.3090800@dejaviewphoto.com> <7F0503CD69378F49BE0DC30661C6CCF67D49D30E@enbmail01.lsi.com> Message-ID: <4A755DE6.1000906@ieee.org> Barak, Ron wrote: > Hi Dave, > > It seems like I don't understand your solution. > I use the (appatched) soapAPI.py as the wrapper to parsing.pyc. > However, if I do (for instance): > > $ python -u parsing.pyc -U aaa > > The last line of the output is (as expected): > > return_code: 12 ; params: {'username': 'aaa'} > > But, if I try the following: > > $ soapAPI.py -U aaa > > I don't get this line. Only the output to stderr gets printed to the screen. > > Bye, > Ron. > > Hi Ron, To make it easier for anybody following this thread, let me post the minimum equivalent source files, inline. parsing.py: ------------------------------ #!/usr/bin/env python import sys def main(): print >> sys.stderr, "This is stderr output" return 5, sys.argv if __name__ == "__main__": return_code, params = main() print "return_code:",return_code,"; params:",params sys.exit(return_code) ------------------------------- soapapi.py: ------------------------------- #!/usr/bin/env python import sys import parsing parsing.main() ------------------------------ When I run soapapi.;py, it indeed prints only the stderr output. The solution is to move (most or all) of the top-level code of parsing.py into a main() function. Since you already have a main(), I'll rename that, and make a new one that calls it. new parsing.py: ------------------------------- #!/usr/bin/env python import sys def innermain(): print >> sys.stderr, "This is stderr output" return 5, sys.argv def main(): return_code, params = innermain() print "return_code:",return_code,"; params:",params sys.exit(return_code) if __name__ == "__main__": main() ------------------------------- The output is now two lines, one from innermain(), and one from main(). And it's the same whether the user runs parsing.py or soapAPI.py To clarify what happened, realize that when the user invokes parsing.py, the module is considered a script, and gets a pseudo-name of "__main__" When that same module is imported by another one, it is considered a library module, and gets its own name "parsing" So any logic that explicitly checks for "__main__" has to change, because we want identical behavior in the two cases. DaveA From davea at ieee.org Sun Aug 2 05:51:45 2009 From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 05:51:45 -0400 Subject: Newbie Question regarding __init__() In-Reply-To: <6ccf5dbe-4b71-4159-88bb-c6a14aa785a9@k26g2000vbp.googlegroups.com> References: <6ccf5dbe-4b71-4159-88bb-c6a14aa785a9@k26g2000vbp.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <4A7561B1.9060808@ieee.org> Simon wrote: > Okay I will fix my code and include "self" and see what happens. I > know I tried that before and got another error which I suspect was > another newbie error. > > The idea behind the init_Pre is that I can put custom code here to > customize the __init__ instead of creating a new subclass. This kind > of hook pattern allows you to flatten your inheritance hierarchy. I > can choose in the init_Pre method to execute code before the init_exec > (which contains the default __init__ code) and still execute the > init_Exec method or I can completely customize the entire __init__ by > returning False from init_Pre and prevent the init_Exec from being > called. I use this type of pattern with almost all my methods. In > this way I can create a less complicated inheritance chain but still > have have custom code when needed without sub-classing. > > I am use to Visual FoxPro which where you can do > > =is.init_Pre().And.This.init_Exec() and the result is discarded so > that is why it looks the way it does. In this form init_Exec has to > return a value. However, If self.init_Pre(): self.init_Exec() would > work the same and then I could avoid returning a value. > > Thanks, > Simon > > > On Aug 1, 5:52 am, Dave Angel wrote: > >> Nat Williams wrote: >> >>> As MRAB described, ALL instance methods need to accept 'self' as a first >>> parameter, as that will be passed to them implicitly when they are called. >>> This includes __init__. The name 'self' is just a commonly accepted >>> convention for the name of the instance object passed to methods. You don't >>> have to call it that, but you really should. >>> >>> Take a look athttp://docs.python.org/tutorial/classes.html#class-objects >>> It might help shed some light on how methods and instances work. >>> >>> One other thing. I'm a little confused by the first line of >>> dcObject.__init__: >>> >>> self.init_Pre() and self.init_Exec() >>> >>> I suspect this does not do what you think it does. init_Pre and init_Exec >>> will both be called by this expression (unless init_Pre throws an exception, >>> of course). You're not getting anything here that you wouldn't by just >>> calling each method on a separate line, except just making it harder to >>> read. >>> >> Read the doc-string for init_Pre() and for init_Exec(). The final >> version of init_Pre() will return False in some circumstances, and in >> those circumstances Simon doesn't want init_Exec() to be called. He's >> deliberately using the short-circuit evaluation of 'and' to accomplish >> that. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 8:53 PM, Simon wrote: >>> >>>> Hi >>>> >>>> So should the dcObject class include the "self" as well since I have >>>> not defined an __init__ method in dcCursor? >>>> >>>> Simon >>>> >>>> -- >>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list >>>> >> Every one of those methods in both of those classes need a "self" first >> argument. As others have said, all instance methods need a 'self.' >> > > (Please don't top-post. You should put new responses at the end of quoted text, or sometimes inline if that's clearer.) I don't understand your comparison to Foxpro. read on. As your code was last posted, you don't need a return value from init_Exec() Every function that doesn't have an explicit return will return None. And None is interpreted as False in an "and" expression. If you had an "if" around the whole thing, then you'd care. DaveA From davea at ieee.org Sun Aug 2 06:00:28 2009 From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 06:00:28 -0400 Subject: Help understanding the decisions *behind* python? In-Reply-To: <988a5f49-7907-4351-bfd0-7bb05e821795@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> References: <988a5f49-7907-4351-bfd0-7bb05e821795@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <4A7563BC.2040406@ieee.org> sturlamolden wrote: > On 20 Jul, 18:27, Phillip B Oldham wrote: > > >> We're not looking to start any arguments or religious wars and we're >> not asking that python be changed into something its not. We'd simply >> like to understand the decision behind the lists and tuple structures. >> We feel that in not "getting" the difference between the two types we >> may be missing out on using these data structures to their full >> potential. >> > > A crude simplification would be: > > - A Python programmer will use a tuple where a C programmer will use a > struct. > > - Python and C programmers use lists and arrays similarly. > > Tuples are used for passing arguments to and from a function. Common > use of tuples include multiple return values and optional arguments > (*args). > > It has already been mentioned that tuples are immutable and can be > used as dictionary keys. > > > I think collections.namedtuple, introduced in Python 2.6, might help bridge the gap between a traditional tuple and a C struct. From __peter__ at web.de Sun Aug 2 06:33:03 2009 From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 12:33:03 +0200 Subject: Generate a new object each time a name is imported References: <02853264$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Message-ID: Steven D'Aprano wrote: > I would like to generate a new object each time I import a name from a > module, rather than getting the same object each time. For example, > currently I might do something like this: > > # Module > count = 0 > def factory(): > # Generate a unique object each time this is called > global count > count += 1 > return "Object #%d" % count > > > # Calling module > from Module import factory > a = factory() # a == "Object #1" > b = factory() # b == "Object #2" > del factory > > > I'm looking for a way to hide the generation of objects from the caller, > so I could do something like this: > > from Module import factory() as a # a == "Object #1" > from Module import factory() as b # b == "Object #2" > > except of course that syntax is illegal. How about >>> class A(object): ... def __init__(self): ... self._n = 0 ... @property ... def a(self): ... try: ... return self._n ... finally: ... self._n += 1 ... >>> import sys >>> sys.modules["yadda"] = A() >>> from yadda import a >>> from yadda import a as b >>> a, b (0, 1) Peter From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au Sun Aug 2 06:49:33 2009 From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano) Date: 02 Aug 2009 10:49:33 GMT Subject: Generate a new object each time a name is imported References: <02853264$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Message-ID: <02855ff5$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 12:33:03 +0200, Peter Otten wrote: > How about [snip] >>>> import sys >>>> sys.modules["yadda"] = A() Perfect! That's exactly the sort of thing I'm looking for. Thanks for everyone who answered. -- Steven From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk Sun Aug 2 07:04:25 2009 From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 12:04:25 +0100 Subject: Newbie thwarted by sys.path on Vista In-Reply-To: <7dl3pkF2cnqf5U1@mid.individual.net> References: <7djs50F2bsubuU1@mid.individual.net> <7dks7jF2ccjstU1@mid.individual.net> <7dl3pkF2cnqf5U1@mid.individual.net> Message-ID: Michael M Mason wrote: > "Mark Lawrence" wrote in message > news:mailman.4130.1249203322.8015.python-list at python.org... >> Be careful, I'm screwed things up on several occasions by placing a >> file on PYTHONPATH that overrides a file in the standard library, >> test.py being my favourite! > > Thanks. Sure enough, I've already got my own test.py but I hadn't > discovered it was a problem yet... > Typical, tried to reproduce it and can't! Still at least you've been warned. -- Kindest regards. Mark Lawrence. From http Sun Aug 2 07:18:34 2009 From: http (Paul Rubin) Date: 02 Aug 2009 04:18:34 -0700 Subject: Generate a new object each time a name is imported References: <02853264$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Message-ID: <7x63d631md.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> writes: > >>> import sys > >>> sys.modules["yadda"] = A() OMG.... wow. I bow to you. But I'm not sure whether that's bowing in awe or in terror. From marcusw at cox.net Sun Aug 2 08:08:34 2009 From: marcusw at cox.net (Marcus Wanner) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 08:08:34 -0400 Subject: Help understanding the decisions *behind* python? In-Reply-To: <988a5f49-7907-4351-bfd0-7bb05e821795@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> References: <988a5f49-7907-4351-bfd0-7bb05e821795@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: On 8/1/2009 9:31 PM, sturlamolden wrote: > - Python and C programmers use lists and arrays similarly. I'm guessing that's because of the brackets... Marcus From __peter__ at web.de Sun Aug 2 08:19:01 2009 From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 14:19:01 +0200 Subject: Generate a new object each time a name is imported References: <02853264$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> <7x63d631md.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: wrote: KNode cannot parse your From-string correctly. Strange. > Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> writes: >> >>> import sys >> >>> sys.modules["yadda"] = A() > > OMG.... wow. I bow to you. But I'm not sure whether that's bowing in > awe or in terror. I don't know who invented it, but it's an old trick. It even made it into the standard library (email.LazyImporter). For the record: I don't recommend it. Peter From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au Sun Aug 2 08:36:41 2009 From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano) Date: 02 Aug 2009 12:36:41 GMT Subject: Skipping a superclass Message-ID: <02857910$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> I have a series of subclasses like this: class A(object): def method(self, *args): print "Lots of work gets done here in the base class" class B(A): def method(self, *args): print "A little bit of work gets done in B" super(B, self).method(*args) class C(B): def method(self, *args): print "A little bit of work gets done in C" super(C, self).method(*args) However, the work done in C.method() makes the work done in B.method() obsolete: I want one to run, or the other, but not both. C does need to inherit from B, for the sake of the other methods, so I want C.method() *only* to skip B while still inheriting from A. (All other methods have to inherit from B as normal.) So what I have done is change the call to super in C to super(B, self) instead of super(C, self). It seems to work, but is this safe to do? Or are there strange side-effects I haven't seen yet? -- Steven From clp2 at rebertia.com Sun Aug 2 09:02:10 2009 From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 06:02:10 -0700 Subject: Skipping a superclass In-Reply-To: <02857910$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> References: <02857910$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Message-ID: <50697b2c0908020602u37fee362i35019d16b857f755@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 5:36 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > I have a series of subclasses like this: > > class A(object): > ? ?def method(self, *args): > ? ? ? ?print "Lots of work gets done here in the base class" > > class B(A): > ? ?def method(self, *args): > ? ? ? ?print "A little bit of work gets done in B" > ? ? ? ?super(B, self).method(*args) > > class C(B): > ? ?def method(self, *args): > ? ? ? ?print "A little bit of work gets done in C" > ? ? ? ?super(C, self).method(*args) > > > However, the work done in C.method() makes the work done in B.method() > obsolete: I want one to run, or the other, but not both. C does need to > inherit from B, for the sake of the other methods, so I want C.method() > *only* to skip B while still inheriting from A. (All other methods have > to inherit from B as normal.) > > So what I have done is change the call to super in C to super(B, self) > instead of super(C, self). It seems to work, but is this safe to do? Or > are there strange side-effects I haven't seen yet? Barring some true weirdness in super(), I don't /think/ so. It obviously works fine in the single-inheritance case, and (after some brute-force testing) the only permitted multiple inheritances involving C and (A or B) always have C ahead of B in the MRO (method resolution order). The fact that you're wanting to bypass a superclass method might suggest however, that your hierarchy could be structured better. Have you considered moving B.method() into another, new class (e.g. newB) which subclasses B? Then C can inherit from B without inheriting the unwanted method, while B's functionality still exists, just under a new name (newB). Cheers, Chris -- http://blog.rebertia.com From lists at cheimes.de Sun Aug 2 09:08:25 2009 From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 15:08:25 +0200 Subject: Newbie thwarted by sys.path on Vista In-Reply-To: <7djs50F2bsubuU1@mid.individual.net> References: <7djs50F2bsubuU1@mid.individual.net> Message-ID: Michael M Mason wrote: > I'm running Python 3.1 on Vista and I can't figure out how to add my own > directory to sys.path. > > The docs suggest that I can either add it to the PYTHONPATH environment > variable or to the PythonPath key in the registry. However, PYTHONPATH > doesn't exist, and updating the registry key has no effect (and in any case > the contents aren't the same as sys.path). > > So where does sys.path get its value from, and how do I change it? You can use my PEP 370 (http://python.org/dev/peps/pep-0370/) and a .pth file to extend the search path for modules. >>> import os >>> import site >>> site.USER_SITE '/home/heimes/.local/lib/python2.6/site-packages' >>> if not os.path.isdir(site.USER_SITE): ... os.makedirs(site.USER_SITE) ... >>> pth = open(os.path.join(site.USER_SITE, "michal.pth"), "w") >>> pth.write("C:/Users/Michael/Code/Python\n") >>> pth.close() Restart Python, your custom search path should be in sys.path. Christian From ifl2009 at shu.edu Sun Aug 2 09:34:37 2009 From: ifl2009 at shu.edu (IFL 2009) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 09:34:37 -0400 Subject: IFL 2009: Call for Papers and Participation Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fatkinson at mishmash.com Sun Aug 2 09:42:52 2009 From: fatkinson at mishmash.com (Fred Atkinson) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 06:42:52 -0700 Subject: Seeding the rand() Generator Message-ID: How does one seed the rand() generator when retrieving random recordings in MySQL? Regards, Fred From jizzai at gmail.com Sun Aug 2 09:50:14 2009 From: jizzai at gmail.com (Jizzai) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 13:50:14 GMT Subject: Is python buffer overflow proof? Message-ID: Is a _pure_ python program buffer overflow proof? For example in C++ you can declare a char[9] to hold user input. If the user inputs 10+ chars a buffer overflow occurs. In python, I cannot seem to find a way to define/restrict a string length. This is probably by design and raises the topic in question. Am curious to see the opinions of people who know. TIA. From albert at spenarnc.xs4all.nl Sun Aug 2 09:54:04 2009 From: albert at spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) Date: 02 Aug 2009 13:54:04 GMT Subject: Colour of output text References: <03c4ceed-c49b-4dd0-a585-e6169b02e0eb@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: In article , Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote: >Nobody wrote: >> On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 09:23:54 +0000, garabik-news-2005-05 wrote: >> >> >>>>> I would like to learn a way of changing the colour of a particular >>>>> part of the output text. I've tried the following >>>>> >>>> On Unix operating systems this would be done through the curses interface: >>>> >>>> http://docs.python.org/library/curses.html >>>> >>> Or using ANSI colour codes: >>> >>> colours = { >>> 'none' : "", >>> 'default' : "\033[0m", >>> 'bold' : "\033[1m", >>> >> >> [snip] >> >> >>> # non-standard attributes, supported by some terminals >>> >> >> This comment should have appeared immediately after "none" ;) >> >> Hard-coding control/escape sequences is just lame. Use the curses modules >> to obtain the correct sequences for the terminal. >> >> >As the OP I'm really interested in doing so. I currently have all my >colors hard-coded. >Now It may be lame but as soon as I call curses.initscr(), it's just >messing up with my terminal, moreover I didn't figure out how to "print >'hello'" using curses color codes. >Anyone has an example ? I'm pretty sure it may fit in one line. In general initscr() ought to work. It fails if it has no/a wrong idea of what your terminal is. In the same shell as you run run your program type set | grep -i term Now some entry should show up, e.g. TERM=xterm infocmp $TERM should fetch information about your terminal, from the same source as curses does. Possible problems are: - your operating system/configurations lies to curses about the terminal or your terminal is not specified at all - curses has not been properly installed and cannot find the database Groetjes Albert > >JM > > -- -- Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters. albert at spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst From lob8682 at gmail.com Sun Aug 2 09:58:47 2009 From: lob8682 at gmail.com (Kamal Kamal) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 06:58:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: "PAK WEB" "PAK WEB TV" "PAK WEBSITES" "PAK WEB DIRECTORY" "PAK WEB HOSTING" "PAK WEB HOST" "PAK WEB HOSTING" "PAK WEB" "PAK WEB" "PAK WEB" "PAK WEB" "PAK WEB" "PAK WEB" "PAK WEB" on www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com Message-ID: "PAK WEB" www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com "PAK WEB TV" www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com "PAK WEBSITES" www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com "PAK WEB DIRECTORY" www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com "PAK WEB HOSTING" www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com "PAK WEB HOST" www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com "PAK WEB HOSTING" www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com "PAK WEB" www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com "PAK WEB" www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com "PAK WEB" "PAK WEB" "PAK WEB" www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com "PAK WEB" www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com "PAK WEB" on www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com From albert at spenarnc.xs4all.nl Sun Aug 2 10:14:53 2009 From: albert at spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) Date: 02 Aug 2009 14:14:53 GMT Subject: A Bug By Any Other Name ... References: Message-ID: In article , J. Cliff Dyer wrote: >On Fri, 2009-07-17 at 20:53 +0000, Albert van der Horst wrote: >> Because unlike in algol 68 in python whitespace is relevant, >> we could get by with requiring whitespace: >> x= -q # okay >> a> 8 ** -2 # okay > >This is actually quite thoroughly untrue. In python, *indentation* is >significant. Whitespace (internal to a line) is not. You can even call >methods like this if you want: You totally don't get it. You describe how python is now. I propose a change to be made to python. Small wonder that that is different from what it is now. > >>>> s = 'abc' >>>> s . upper() >ABC You prove nothing by giving examples. You can disprove by giving one counter example, here it goes. Whitespace (internal to a line) is significant. In Python you cannot change xleftgoing = 123000000 to x left going = 123 000 000 (You can in Algol68) >Obviously, that's A Bad Idea(tm), but python's parser won't stop you. What is a bad idea? Apparently you are not talking about my idea of changing the parser. ("Pythons parser won't stop you from changing the parser" doesn't make sense.) >The ++ operator gotcha is so minor that I can't remember anyone actually >asking about it on the list (who was actually facing it as a >problem--this thread was started by idle speculation). Can we not >change the language syntax to address non-issues? As other languages have an Eleventh Commandment against concatenating operators, the larger issue is hardly futile. > >Practicality beats purity, a.k.a. don't you have something better to do? I'm having a great time, thank you! >Cheers, >Cliff Groetjes Albert -- -- Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters. albert at spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst From marcusw at cox.net Sun Aug 2 10:32:39 2009 From: marcusw at cox.net (Marcus Wanner) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 10:32:39 -0400 Subject: Is python buffer overflow proof? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 8/2/2009 9:50 AM, Jizzai wrote: > Is a _pure_ python program buffer overflow proof? > > For example in C++ you can declare a char[9] to hold user input. > If the user inputs 10+ chars a buffer overflow occurs. > > In python, I cannot seem to find a way to define/restrict a string length. > This is probably by design and raises the topic in question. > > Am curious to see the opinions of people who know. > > TIA. I believe that python is buffer overflow proof. In fact, I think that even ctypes is overflow proof... Marcus From marcusw at cox.net Sun Aug 2 10:36:18 2009 From: marcusw at cox.net (Marcus Wanner) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 10:36:18 -0400 Subject: Seeding the rand() Generator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 8/2/2009 9:42 AM, Fred Atkinson wrote: > How does one seed the rand() generator when retrieving random > recordings in MySQL? > > Regards, > > > > Fred something like: import random, time random.seed(time.time()) #not actual record access code: sqlite3.recordaccessfuction(recordid = random.rand()) Marcus From lists at cheimes.de Sun Aug 2 10:43:25 2009 From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 16:43:25 +0200 Subject: Is python buffer overflow proof? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Marcus Wanner wrote: > I believe that python is buffer overflow proof. In fact, I think that > even ctypes is overflow proof... No, ctypes isn't buffer overflow proof. ctypes can break and crash a Python interpreter easily. Christian From matt.urry at googlemail.com Sun Aug 2 10:45:39 2009 From: matt.urry at googlemail.com (ma3mju) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 07:45:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Processes not exiting References: <6cfb2f39-c6d6-4d2a-882c-18f21addf206@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <206a63e2-9159-44f0-ac5c-a14055448b47@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> On 31 July, 11:27, Piet van Oostrum wrote: > >>>>> ma3mju (m) wrote: > >m> Hi all, > >m> I'm having trouble with multiprocessing I'm using it to speed up some > >m> simulations, I find for large queues when the process reaches the > >m> poison pill it does not exit whereas for smaller queues it works > >m> without any problems. Has anyone else had this trouble? Can anyone > >m> tell me a way around it? The code is in two files below. > > How do you know it doesn't exit. You haven't shown any of your output. > > I did discover a problem in your code, but it should cause an exception: > > >m> #set off some of the easy workers on the hard work (maybe double > >m> number of hard) > >m> for i in range(0,num_hard_workers): > >m> ? ? hard_work_queue.put(None) > >m> ? ? hard_workers.append(multiprocessing.Process > >m> (target=GP.RandomWalkGeneralizationErrorParallel,args= > >m> (hard_work_queue,result_queue,))) > >m> #wait for all hard workers to finish > >m> for worker in hard_workers: > >m> ? ? worker.join() > > Here you create new hard workers, but you never start them. The join > should then give an exception when it reaches these. > -- > Piet van Oostrum > URL:http://pietvanoostrum.com[PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4] > Private email: p... at vanoostrum.org Ok thanks I'll change that In a sec, It never reaches that bit of code because the easy_workers don't exit so it never gets past the join(). As far as running it goes I get the datapt and number of points printed to the list for everything in both queues. When it reaches the end of either queue I get "Poison" on the screen then "here" for each process but I don't get "worker joined" and as expected don't get "this should not appear". If I have a look at the processes running after all queues are supposed to have finished I see all of them running taking little or no resources. This is running on Ubuntu Jaunty at home and the same happens on the Debian machine at uni. The weird thing is that if I run them with less points the processes do manage to exit. Thanks Matt From matt.urry at googlemail.com Sun Aug 2 10:48:44 2009 From: matt.urry at googlemail.com (ma3mju) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 07:48:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Processes not exiting References: <6cfb2f39-c6d6-4d2a-882c-18f21addf206@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <61d7fcbb-17f8-4314-90b6-0a6db22abd6d@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> On 31 July, 11:34, MRAB wrote: > ma3mju wrote: > > Hi all, > > > I'm having trouble with multiprocessing I'm using it to speed up some > > simulations, I find for large queues when the process reaches the > > poison pill it does not exit whereas for smaller queues it works > > without any problems. Has anyone else had this trouble? Can anyone > > tell me a way around it? The code is in two files below. > > [snip] > > > #get number of cores and set the number on concurrent processes > > num_hard_workers = 2 > > num_workers = multiprocessing.cpu_count()*1.5 > > easy_workers = [] > > hard_workers = [] > > #add poison pill for each worker and create the worker > > for i in range(0,num_workers-num_hard_workers): > > ? ? easy_work_queue.put(None) > > ? ? easy_workers.append(multiprocessing.Process > > (target=GP.RandomWalkGeneralizationErrorParallel,args= > > (easy_work_queue,result_queue,))) > > for i in range(0,num_hard_workers): > > ? ? hard_work_queue.put(None) > > ? ? hard_workers.append(multiprocessing.Process > > (target=GP.RandomWalkGeneralizationErrorParallel,args= > > (hard_work_queue,result_queue,))) > > You have 2 hard workers and ceil(CPU_count * 1.5) - 2 easy workers. > What if the number of CPUs was 1? That would give 2 hard and 0 easy! > > Also, I recommend that you put only 1 'poison pill' in each queue and > have the workers put it back when they see it. I'll give that a go in a sec and see if it helps. The processes quit out for smaller queues though so it should in theory be alright. I'm not too fussed about the CPU's it's only there because I change between a uni PC and home one with a different number of cores in each but both greater than one. From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org Sun Aug 2 11:11:22 2009 From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 08:11:22 -0700 Subject: Predefined Variables In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Piet van Oostrum wrote: >>>>>> Scott David Daniels (SDD) wrote: >> SDD> Stephen Cuppett (should have written in this order): >>>> "Fred Atkinson" wrote ... >>>>> Is there a pre-defined variable that returns the GET line... >>>> os.environment('QUERY_STRING') >> SDD> Maybe you mean: >> SDD> os.environ['USER'] > Let's take the best of both: > os.environ['QUERY_STRING'] Sorry about that. I was testing expression before posting, and I don't do that much cgi stuff. I forgot to restore the variable name. --Scott David Daniels Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au Sun Aug 2 11:18:27 2009 From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano) Date: 02 Aug 2009 15:18:27 GMT Subject: Is python buffer overflow proof? References: Message-ID: <02859ef9$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 13:50:14 +0000, Jizzai wrote: > Is a _pure_ python program buffer overflow proof? It's supposed to be. > For example in C++ you can declare a char[9] to hold user input. If the > user inputs 10+ chars a buffer overflow occurs. > > In python, I cannot seem to find a way to define/restrict a string > length. This is probably by design and raises the topic in question. That's a separate issue from being buffer overflow proof. You can't specify that a string have a maximum of N characters except by slicing the string after it's formed: s = "x"*10000 # Make a big string. s = s[:100] # Limit it to 100 characters. But Python won't overflow any buffers even if you try to create a truly huge string: s = "x"*(1024**4) # Try to create a 1 TB string. Your PC will run slow while Python and the OS tries to allocate 1TB of memory, then it will safely raise MemoryError. Pure Python should never dump core. -- Steven From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org Sun Aug 2 11:53:50 2009 From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 08:53:50 -0700 Subject: Seeding the rand() Generator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Fred Atkinson wrote: > How does one seed the rand() generator when retrieving random > recordings in MySQL? It is not entirely clear what you are asking. If you are talking about MySQL's random number generator, you are talking in the wrong newsgroup. If you are talking about Python's, does this work? import random random.seed(123542552) I'm not quite sure how you came to believe that Python controls MySQL, as opposed to using its services. --Scott David Daniels Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org From matt.urry at googlemail.com Sun Aug 2 12:57:44 2009 From: matt.urry at googlemail.com (ma3mju) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 09:57:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Processes not exiting References: <6cfb2f39-c6d6-4d2a-882c-18f21addf206@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> <61d7fcbb-17f8-4314-90b6-0a6db22abd6d@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <01b55c48-3252-4cec-8781-98487a9071ae@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> On 2 Aug, 15:48, ma3mju wrote: > On 31 July, 11:34, MRAB wrote: > > > > > ma3mju wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > I'm having trouble with multiprocessing I'm using it to speed up some > > > simulations, I find for large queues when the process reaches the > > > poison pill it does not exit whereas for smaller queues it works > > > without any problems. Has anyone else had this trouble? Can anyone > > > tell me a way around it? The code is in two files below. > > > [snip] > > > > #get number of cores and set the number on concurrent processes > > > num_hard_workers = 2 > > > num_workers = multiprocessing.cpu_count()*1.5 > > > easy_workers = [] > > > hard_workers = [] > > > #add poison pill for each worker and create the worker > > > for i in range(0,num_workers-num_hard_workers): > > > ? ? easy_work_queue.put(None) > > > ? ? easy_workers.append(multiprocessing.Process > > > (target=GP.RandomWalkGeneralizationErrorParallel,args= > > > (easy_work_queue,result_queue,))) > > > for i in range(0,num_hard_workers): > > > ? ? hard_work_queue.put(None) > > > ? ? hard_workers.append(multiprocessing.Process > > > (target=GP.RandomWalkGeneralizationErrorParallel,args= > > > (hard_work_queue,result_queue,))) > > > You have 2 hard workers and ceil(CPU_count * 1.5) - 2 easy workers. > > What if the number of CPUs was 1? That would give 2 hard and 0 easy! > > > Also, I recommend that you put only 1 'poison pill' in each queue and > > have the workers put it back when they see it. > > I'll give that a go in a sec and see if it helps. The processes quit > out for smaller queues though so it should in theory be alright. I'm > not too fussed about the CPU's it's only there because I change > between a uni PC and home one with a different number of cores in each > but both greater than one. Just tried changing the poison pill part to no avail sadly From tjreedy at udel.edu Sun Aug 2 14:07:44 2009 From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 14:07:44 -0400 Subject: Generate a new object each time a name is imported In-Reply-To: References: <02853264$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Message-ID: Peter Otten wrote: > Steven D'Aprano wrote: >> I'm looking for a way to hide the generation of objects from the caller, >> so I could do something like this: >> >> from Module import factory() as a # a == "Object #1" >> from Module import factory() as b # b == "Object #2" >> >> except of course that syntax is illegal. > > How about For newbies who do not get how the following works, but would like to know, I am adding some explanation. >>>> class A(object): > ... def __init__(self): > ... self._n = 0 > ... @property > ... def a(self): > ... try: > ... return self._n > ... finally: > ... self._n += 1 The @property decorator turns the 'a' function into the hidden getter function for what looks to the outside world like a simple instance attribute named 'a'. >>>> import sys >>>> sys.modules["yadda"] = A() sys.modules is a system namespace that normally associates names with modules. It is used by import statements to find existing modules. However, there is no requirement that the associated object actually be a module. A module is simply a collection of objects accessed as attributes. One can get and set attributes of a module, and but hardly anyhing else. Other attribute collection objects will do as well as far as imports are concerned. 'If it quack like a duck (module in this case)...' The above sets the 'module' to an *instance* of class A. >>>> from yadda import a This looks for the 'module' named 'yadda'. It finds one - the instance of A. It then requests attribute 'a' (of that instance). That request is routed to the getter function. This import statement could be in any module, not just the one that set A() as a module surrogate. >>>> from yadda import a as b >>>> a, b > (0, 1) As Peter mentioned in his followup, module surrogates were intended for lazy imports of expensive-to-compute attributes that might never be needed, so their creation could be delayed to whenever needed, if ever. Tricks like the above are not recommended for normal usage, but do illstrate some aspects of the language. Terry Jan Reedy From catalinfest at gmail.com Sun Aug 2 14:13:13 2009 From: catalinfest at gmail.com (catafest) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 11:13:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: How to read webpage References: Message-ID: <44c17767-e08e-4c8c-ae1f-0e11e54d3485@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> Maybe your python2.5 not working good!? But, I use python 2.6 , and i use this for your problem: import urllib html = urllib.urlopen("http://www.rediff.com/").read() print html If you want use authenticate then... You make working urllib2 and use this >>>auth = urllib2.Request(auth_uri, authreq_data) On Aug 1, 4:52?pm, MRAB wrote: > tarun wrote: > > Dear All, > > I want to read a webpage and copy the contents of it in word file. I > > tried to write following code: > > > import urllib2 > > urllib2.urlopen("http://www.rediff.com/") > > > *Error:-* > > > ? ? urllib2.urlopen("http://www.icicibank.com/") > > ? File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 121, in urlopen > > ? ? return _opener.open(url, data) > > ? File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 374, in open > > ? ? response = self._open(req, data) > > ? File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 392, in _open > > ? ? '_open', req) > > ? File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 353, in _call_chain > > ? ? result = func(*args) > > ? File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 1100, in http_open > > ? ? return self.do_open(httplib.HTTPConnection, req) > > ? File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 1075, in do_open > > ? ? raise URLError(err) > > urllib2.URLError: > > I've just tried it. I didn't get an exception, so your problem must be > elsewhere. From python at mrabarnett.plus.com Sun Aug 2 14:25:36 2009 From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 19:25:36 +0100 Subject: Processes not exiting In-Reply-To: <01b55c48-3252-4cec-8781-98487a9071ae@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> References: <6cfb2f39-c6d6-4d2a-882c-18f21addf206@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> <61d7fcbb-17f8-4314-90b6-0a6db22abd6d@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> <01b55c48-3252-4cec-8781-98487a9071ae@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <4A75DA20.7050209@mrabarnett.plus.com> ma3mju wrote: > On 2 Aug, 15:48, ma3mju wrote: >> On 31 July, 11:34, MRAB wrote: >> >> >> >>> ma3mju wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> I'm having trouble with multiprocessing I'm using it to speed up some >>>> simulations, I find for large queues when the process reaches the >>>> poison pill it does not exit whereas for smaller queues it works >>>> without any problems. Has anyone else had this trouble? Can anyone >>>> tell me a way around it? The code is in two files below. >>> [snip] >>>> #get number of cores and set the number on concurrent processes >>>> num_hard_workers = 2 >>>> num_workers = multiprocessing.cpu_count()*1.5 >>>> easy_workers = [] >>>> hard_workers = [] >>>> #add poison pill for each worker and create the worker >>>> for i in range(0,num_workers-num_hard_workers): >>>> easy_work_queue.put(None) >>>> easy_workers.append(multiprocessing.Process >>>> (target=GP.RandomWalkGeneralizationErrorParallel,args= >>>> (easy_work_queue,result_queue,))) >>>> for i in range(0,num_hard_workers): >>>> hard_work_queue.put(None) >>>> hard_workers.append(multiprocessing.Process >>>> (target=GP.RandomWalkGeneralizationErrorParallel,args= >>>> (hard_work_queue,result_queue,))) >>> You have 2 hard workers and ceil(CPU_count * 1.5) - 2 easy workers. >>> What if the number of CPUs was 1? That would give 2 hard and 0 easy! >>> Also, I recommend that you put only 1 'poison pill' in each queue and >>> have the workers put it back when they see it. >> I'll give that a go in a sec and see if it helps. The processes quit >> out for smaller queues though so it should in theory be alright. I'm >> not too fussed about the CPU's it's only there because I change >> between a uni PC and home one with a different number of cores in each >> but both greater than one. > > Just tried changing the poison pill part to no avail sadly I wonder whether one of the workers is raising an exception, perhaps due to lack of memory, when there are large number of jobs to process. Another question: why are you distinguishing between easy and hard jobs? Do you actually get a measurable improvement in performance from doing it this way instead of having just a single queue of jobs and a single pool of workers? From piet at cs.uu.nl Sun Aug 2 14:26:55 2009 From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 20:26:55 +0200 Subject: Get Cliet IP Address References: Message-ID: >>>>> Fred Atkinson (FA) wrote: >FA> What is the function to obtain the client browser's IP >FA> address? You mean in a web server? The following should work (and was posted by me not long ago): from os import getenv ip = (getenv("HTTP_CLIENT_IP") or getenv("HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR") or getenv("HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR") or getenv("REMOTE_ADDR") or "UNKNOWN") I use getenv() rather than environ[] to avoid exceptions. -- Piet van Oostrum URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4] Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org From piet at cs.uu.nl Sun Aug 2 14:31:07 2009 From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 20:31:07 +0200 Subject: cgi script References: Message-ID: >>>>> golu (g) wrote: >g> Hi, >g> i started learning cgi few days ago in python and everything went >g> fine until i started getting the follwing error >g> " >g> The server encountered an internal error and was unable to complete >g> your request. Either the server is overloaded or there was an error in >g> a CGI script. >g> If you think this is a server error, please contact the webmaster. " >g> i am using apache on xampp. plz help Putting the following in your script might help as it will show the exception trace in your browser (if it gets that far, that is). import cgitb cgitb.enable() -- Piet van Oostrum URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4] Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org From REMpeteOVE at petezilla.co.uk Sun Aug 2 15:21:06 2009 From: REMpeteOVE at petezilla.co.uk (Peter Chant) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 20:21:06 +0100 Subject: Building / making an application Message-ID: <2i5hk6-8gh.ln1@phoenix.fire> What is a good way to do this? There are instructions on making modules at: http://docs.python.org/distutils/setupscript.html however, what do you do if you don't want a module? I'm thinking of where I'd like to split the code into several files and have a build / setup script put it together and install it somewhere such as /usr/local/bin. I'm interested in what the standard way of doing this is. Thanks, Pete -- http://www.petezilla.co.uk From piet at cs.uu.nl Sun Aug 2 15:25:02 2009 From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 21:25:02 +0200 Subject: socket policy flash help References: <04e26f53-5f51-476d-823e-47bfeed9b2a8@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com> <8bede581-f260-4c69-abf0-1e8071380b76@z4g2000prh.googlegroups.com> <7e6cdc26-bcc0-4503-b7b4-9ad80b1041f6@v37g2000prg.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: >>>>> NighterNet (N) wrote: >N> Here the full code. >N> flashpolicy.xml >N> [[[ >N> >N> >N> >N> >N> ]]] >N> flashpolicytest_server3x.py >N> [[[ >N> #!/usr/local/bin/python >N> ''' >N> Still under testing... >N> python version 3.x.x >N> ''' >N> import socket >N> import threading >N> import sys >N> import os >N> file_name = 'flashpolicy.xml' >N> fh = open(file_name, "r") >N> policy = fh.read(10001) You never use that variable. >N> host = ''; #out side network >N> port = 5555; >N> print ("# ------------- Init... ------------- #"); >N> class ClientThread (threading.Thread): >N> global policy; >N> allClients = []; >N> vlock = threading.Lock(); >N> id = 0 # next available thread number >N> def __init__(self,clientSocket): >N> threading.Thread.__init__(self) >N> self.sockfd = clientSocket; #socket client >N> self.name = ''; >N> ClientThread.id += 1 >N> self.id = ClientThread.id >N> self.nickName = ''; >N> self.allClients.append(self.sockfd); >N> def sendAll(self,buff): >N> for index,clientSock in enumerate(self.allClients): >N> try: >N> clientSock.send(buff); There is no guarantee that send will indeed transmit all of buff. It is better to use clientSock.sendall(buff). Or you should check the return value of send and check if it is equal to the length of buff. And repeat if not. (But sendall is easier). Also don't use ; at the end of the statement. It's not pythonic. >N> except (socket.error): >N> print ('error socket %s\n',index,"| clean"); >N> clientSock.close() >N> del self.allClients[index] >N> def run(self): >N> while True: >N> buff = self.sockfd.recv(1028); There is no guarantee that recv will get the whole message. It may even get as little as 1 byte. So you should check the return value of recv. The official way is to keep reading until you have enough input or until you hit end of file. >N> if not buff: >N> print ("connect close...(client side)"); >N> self.sockfd.close(); >N> break #incase it loop infinite >N> if str(buff) == str("b\'\\x00\'"): What you check here is whether buff contains the byte sequence that starts with a b, then a ' ... and ending with the 5 bytes \ x 0 0 ' which is wrong. Actually it should be: if buff == b\'\x00': or if buff == b\'\0': >N> print ('policy FOUND >>> sending...') >N> print(buff) >N> b = b'N> from domain=\"*\" to-ports=\"*\" />' >N> print (b) >N> self.sockfd.send(b); >N> self.sockfd.sendall(b); Only self.sockfd.sendall; delete the line with self.sockfd.send(b). And remove the semicolons for esthetical reasons. >N> Some odd reason I can't send flash policy from python to flash socket >N> to agrees with the connection. -- Piet van Oostrum URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4] Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org From hackingkk at gmail.com Sun Aug 2 15:32:10 2009 From: hackingkk at gmail.com (Krishnakant) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 01:02:10 +0530 Subject: Building / making an application In-Reply-To: <2i5hk6-8gh.ln1@phoenix.fire> References: <2i5hk6-8gh.ln1@phoenix.fire> Message-ID: <1249241530.4541.12.camel@krishna-laptop> On Sun, 2009-08-02 at 20:21 +0100, Peter Chant wrote: > What is a good way to do this? There are instructions on making modules at: > > http://docs.python.org/distutils/setupscript.html > > however, what do you do if you don't want a module? I'm thinking of where > I'd like to split the code into several files and have a build / setup > script put it together and install it somewhere such as /usr/local/bin. > I'm interested in what the standard way of doing this is. > Have you considered creating a deb or rpm package for your application? Most of the documentation for deb or rpm will talk about make files. But even a distutil based python package (with a setup.py) can be made into a deb package. Then the your requirement will be satisfied at least for most gnu/linux based distros. happy hacking. Krishnakant. From REMpeteOVE at petezilla.co.uk Sun Aug 2 16:00:15 2009 From: REMpeteOVE at petezilla.co.uk (Peter Chant) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 21:00:15 +0100 Subject: Building / making an application References: <2i5hk6-8gh.ln1@phoenix.fire> Message-ID: Krishnakant wrote: > Have you considered creating a deb or rpm package for your application? > Most of the documentation for deb or rpm will talk about make files. > But even a distutil based python package (with a setup.py) can be made > into a deb package. > Then the your requirement will be satisfied at least for most gnu/linux > based distros. I'm a slacker, so what I would do would be to make a slack build, the slackbuild would take the source and build that. The stage I am at is the "how to build the source" stage. Don't really intend to get as far as distribution specific packages. What I could do is create a script in the source root directory (that sounds a bit overblown) that simply concatenates together all the python files in the right order and perhaps copies the result to /usr/local/bin or /usr/bin as appropriate. Is that the right way to go? It looks like distutils is appropriate only for modules. OTOH it might be appropriate to put the bulk of an application in a module and have a function calling it the only part of the main script. Pete -- http://www.petezilla.co.uk From deets at nospam.web.de Sun Aug 2 16:08:00 2009 From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 22:08:00 +0200 Subject: Building / making an application In-Reply-To: References: <2i5hk6-8gh.ln1@phoenix.fire> Message-ID: <7dma10F2cd7tnU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> Peter Chant schrieb: > Krishnakant wrote: > > >> Have you considered creating a deb or rpm package for your application? >> Most of the documentation for deb or rpm will talk about make files. >> But even a distutil based python package (with a setup.py) can be made >> into a deb package. >> Then the your requirement will be satisfied at least for most gnu/linux >> based distros. > > I'm a slacker, so what I would do would be to make a slack build, the > slackbuild would take the source and build that. The stage I am at is > the "how to build the source" stage. Don't really intend to get as far as > distribution specific packages. > > What I could do is create a script in the source root directory (that sounds > a bit overblown) that simply concatenates together all the python files in > the right order and perhaps copies the result to /usr/local/bin or /usr/bin > as appropriate. Is that the right way to go? It looks like distutils is > appropriate only for modules. > > OTOH it might be appropriate to put the bulk of an application in a module > and have a function calling it the only part of the main script. You should consider using setuptools. Then you get an egg that people can install, and you can define "console_scripts"-entry-points which will be installed into /usr/local/bin or similar locations. Diez From aahz at pythoncraft.com Sun Aug 2 16:15:00 2009 From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) Date: 2 Aug 2009 13:15:00 -0700 Subject: Help with Regex for domain names References: <0422bf8f-ce59-4de2-a1a4-b16a32e5f152@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: In article , MRAB wrote: >Nobody wrote: >> On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 10:29:09 -0700, rurpy wrote: >> >>>> regex = re.compile(r'[\w\-\.]+\.(?:us|au|de)') >>> You might also want to consider that some country >>> codes such as "co" for Columbia might match more than >>> you want, for example: >>> >>> re.match(r'[\w\-\.]+\.(?:us|au|de|co)', 'foo.boo.com') >>> >>> will match. >> >> ... so put \b at the end, i.e.: >> >> regex = re.compile(r'[\w\-\.]+\.(?:us|au|de)\b') >> >It would still match "www.bbc.co.uk", so you might need: > >regex = re.compile(r'[\w\-\.]+\.(?:us|au|de)\b(?!\.\b)') If it's a string containing just the candidate domain, you can do regex = re.compile(r'[\w\-\.]+\.(?:us|au|de)$') -- Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/ "Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer From piet at cs.uu.nl Sun Aug 2 16:49:05 2009 From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 22:49:05 +0200 Subject: Processes not exiting References: <6cfb2f39-c6d6-4d2a-882c-18f21addf206@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> <61d7fcbb-17f8-4314-90b6-0a6db22abd6d@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> <01b55c48-3252-4cec-8781-98487a9071ae@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: >>>>> MRAB (M) wrote: >M> I wonder whether one of the workers is raising an exception, perhaps due >M> to lack of memory, when there are large number of jobs to process. But that wouldn't prevent the join. And you would probably get an exception traceback printed. I wonder if something fishy is happening in the multiprocessing infrastructure. Or maybe the Fortran code goes wrong because it has no protection against buffer overruns and similar problems, I think. -- Piet van Oostrum URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4] Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org From fatkinson at mishmash.com Sun Aug 2 17:18:28 2009 From: fatkinson at mishmash.com (Fred Atkinson) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 14:18:28 -0700 Subject: Seeding the rand() Generator References: Message-ID: On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 08:53:50 -0700, Scott David Daniels wrote: >Fred Atkinson wrote: >> How does one seed the rand() generator when retrieving random >> recordings in MySQL? > >It is not entirely clear what you are asking. If you are talking about >MySQL's random number generator, you are talking in the wrong newsgroup. >If you are talking about Python's, does this work? > import random > random.seed(123542552) >I'm not quite sure how you came to believe that Python controls MySQL, >as opposed to using its services. > >--Scott David Daniels >Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org I am coding in Python. I am accessing a MySQL database. I have a string to instruct the MySQL database to use the 'rand()' function to randomly choose one of the records in the database. I know how to seed it in PHP. Does anyone know how to see it from with Python? Regards, Fred From fatkinson at mishmash.com Sun Aug 2 17:20:02 2009 From: fatkinson at mishmash.com (Fred Atkinson) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 14:20:02 -0700 Subject: Predefined Variables References: Message-ID: On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 08:11:22 -0700, Scott David Daniels wrote: >Piet van Oostrum wrote: >>>>>>> Scott David Daniels (SDD) wrote: >>> SDD> Stephen Cuppett (should have written in this order): >>>>> "Fred Atkinson" wrote ... >>>>>> Is there a pre-defined variable that returns the GET line... >>>>> os.environment('QUERY_STRING') >>> SDD> Maybe you mean: >>> SDD> os.environ['USER'] >> Let's take the best of both: >> os.environ['QUERY_STRING'] > >Sorry about that. I was testing expression before posting, and I don't >do that much cgi stuff. I forgot to restore the variable name. > >--Scott David Daniels >Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org I finally got it to work with x =getenv('QUERY_STRING') Regards, Fred From victorsubervi at gmail.com Sun Aug 2 17:22:20 2009 From: victorsubervi at gmail.com (Victor Subervi) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 16:22:20 -0500 Subject: RE Question Message-ID: <4dc0cfea0908021422x43972682ra58c53a2a43351ee@mail.gmail.com> Hi; How do I search and replace something like this: aLine = re.sub('[<]?[p]?[>]?[<]?[b]?[>]?', '', aLine) where RE *only* looks for the possibility of "

" at the beginning of the string; that is, not the individual components as I have it coded above, but the entire 3-character block? TIA, Victor -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marcusw at cox.net Sun Aug 2 17:51:11 2009 From: marcusw at cox.net (Marcus Wanner) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 17:51:11 -0400 Subject: Is python buffer overflow proof? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 8/2/2009 10:43 AM, Christian Heimes wrote: > Marcus Wanner wrote: >> I believe that python is buffer overflow proof. In fact, I think that >> even ctypes is overflow proof... > > No, ctypes isn't buffer overflow proof. ctypes can break and crash a > Python interpreter easily. > > Christian > I see. I thought that it said "invalid array index" when you try to read/write outside of an array's bounds, though... Marcus From REMpeteOVE at petezilla.co.uk Sun Aug 2 18:26:08 2009 From: REMpeteOVE at petezilla.co.uk (Peter Chant) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 23:26:08 +0100 Subject: Building / making an application References: <2i5hk6-8gh.ln1@phoenix.fire> <7dma10F2cd7tnU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> Message-ID: <0dghk6-12j.ln1@phoenix.fire> Diez B. Roggisch wrote: > You should consider using setuptools. Then you get an egg that people > can install, and you can define "console_scripts"-entry-points which > will be installed into /usr/local/bin or similar locations. Interesting, I think I need to have a play with that. The cross platform bit could be useful as well. Pete -- http://www.petezilla.co.uk From missive at hotmail.com Sun Aug 2 18:27:49 2009 From: missive at hotmail.com (Lee Harr) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 02:57:49 +0430 Subject: [ANNC] pybotwar-0.3 Message-ID: pybotwar is a fun and educational game where players create computer programs to control simulated robots to compete in a battle arena. http://pybotwar.googlecode.com/ pybotwar uses pybox2d for the physical simulation, and uses pygame and pygsear for the visualization. pybotwar is released under GPLv3. Changes in pybotwar-0.3: - make tarball extract in to versioned directory _________________________________________________________________ With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos. http://www.microsoft.com/middleeast/windows/windowslive/products/photo-gallery-edit.aspx From suruti94 at gmail.com Sun Aug 2 19:22:45 2009 From: suruti94 at gmail.com (Mohan Parthasarathy) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 16:22:45 -0700 Subject: Python docs disappointing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <89dd3da60908021622k9967c90raa98afff1881bcc4@mail.gmail.com> I am a newbie and about a month old with Python. There is a wealth of material about Python and I am really enjoying learning Python. One thing that could have helped Python documentation is that instead of the very "raw" doc string, it could have used something like PythonDoc (java doc style) so that the functions/classes are documented better. At least I am planning to use PythonDoc for the code that I am going to write. Let me know if there is a better one.. -mohan On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 1:10 PM, kj wrote: > > > > I'm pretty new to Python, and I like a lot overall, but I find the > documentation for Python rather poor, overall. > > I'm sure that Python experts don't have this problem: they have > internalized some good ways to access the documentation, are > productive with it, and therefore have lost the ability to see why > the Python documentations is deficient for beginners. This explains > why a suboptimal situation can persist like this: those who are > most able fix it are also the least able to perceive it. > > I've heard similar complaints from other experienced programmers > who are trying out Python for the first time: poor documentation. > > Here is an *entirely typical* example: on some Unix, try > > % pydoc urllib > > The displayed documentation mention the optional parameter "data" > in practically every function listed (a few dozen of them). This > parameter is not documented *anywhere* on that page. All that we > are told is that its default value is always None. > > I'm sure that I can find a full description of this parameter if > I fire up Google, and search online. In fact, more likely than > not, I'll find far more documentation than I want. But my point > is that a programmer should not need to do this. The full > documentation should be readily accessible directly through a few > keystrokes. > > I would love to know how experienced Python programmers quickly > zero in on the Python documentation they need. > > TIA! > > kynn > -- > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From clp2 at rebertia.com Sun Aug 2 19:40:20 2009 From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 16:40:20 -0700 Subject: Python docs disappointing In-Reply-To: <89dd3da60908021622k9967c90raa98afff1881bcc4@mail.gmail.com> References: <89dd3da60908021622k9967c90raa98afff1881bcc4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <50697b2c0908021640o38f1de9fnd778da4d985c4672@mail.gmail.com> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 1:10 PM, kj wrote: >> I'm pretty new to Python, and I like a lot overall, but I find the >> documentation for Python rather poor, overall. >> >> I'm sure that Python experts don't have this problem: they have >> internalized some good ways to access the documentation, are >> productive with it, and therefore have lost the ability to see why >> the Python documentations is deficient for beginners. ?This explains >> why a suboptimal situation can persist like this: those who are >> most able fix it are also the least able to perceive it. >> >> I've heard similar complaints from other experienced programmers >> who are trying out Python for the first time: poor documentation. >> >> Here is an *entirely typical* example: on some Unix, try >> >> % pydoc urllib >> >> The displayed documentation mention the optional parameter "data" >> in practically every function listed (a few dozen of them). ?This >> parameter is not documented *anywhere* on that page. ?All that we >> are told is that its default value is always None. >> >> I'm sure that I can find a full description of this parameter if >> I fire up Google, and search online. ?In fact, more likely than >> not, I'll find far more documentation than I want. ?But my point >> is that a programmer should not need to do this. ?The full >> documentation should be readily accessible directly through a few >> keystrokes. >> >> I would love to know how experienced Python programmers quickly >> zero in on the Python documentation they need. On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 4:22 PM, Mohan Parthasarathy wrote: > I am a newbie and about a month old with Python. There is a wealth of > material about Python and I am really enjoying learning Python. > > One thing that could have helped Python documentation is that instead of the > very "raw" doc string, it could have used something like PythonDoc (java doc > style) so that the functions/classes are documented better. At least I am > planning to use PythonDoc for the code that I am going to write. Let me know > if there is a better one.. If you use reStructuredText (http://docutils.sf.net/rst.html), you can leverage Sphinx (http://sphinx.pocoo.org/), which generates the superb-looking official Python docs. Cheers, Chris P.S. Please don't top-post (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top-post) in the future. -- http://blog.rebertia.com From pavlovevidence at gmail.com Sun Aug 2 20:00:40 2009 From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 17:00:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Seeding the rand() Generator References: Message-ID: On Aug 2, 2:18?pm, Fred Atkinson wrote: > On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 08:53:50 -0700, Scott David Daniels > > wrote: > >Fred Atkinson wrote: > >> ? ? ? ?How does one seed the rand() generator when retrieving random > >> recordings in MySQL? ? > > >It is not entirely clear what you are asking. ?If you are talking about > >MySQL's random number generator, you are talking in the wrong newsgroup. > >If you are talking about Python's, does this work? > > ? ? import random > > ? ? random.seed(123542552) > >I'm not quite sure how you came to believe that Python controls MySQL, > >as opposed to using its services. > > >--Scott David Daniels > >Scott.Dani... at Acm.Org > > ? ? ? ? I am coding in Python. ? > > ? ? ? ? I am accessing a MySQL database. ? > > ? ? ? ? I have a string to instruct the MySQL database to use the > 'rand()' function to randomly choose one of the records in the > database. ? > > ? ? ? ? I know how to seed it in PHP. ?Does anyone know how to see it > from with Python? ? It sounds like you are using MySQL's rand() function, which means that whatever SQL command you used to seed it in PHP is the same command you would use to seed it in Python. You'll have to give us more information if you want a better answer than that. Carl Banks From lists at cheimes.de Sun Aug 2 20:39:34 2009 From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 02:39:34 +0200 Subject: Python docs disappointing In-Reply-To: <89dd3da60908021622k9967c90raa98afff1881bcc4@mail.gmail.com> References: <89dd3da60908021622k9967c90raa98afff1881bcc4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Mohan Parthasarathy schrieb: > I am a newbie and about a month old with Python. There is a wealth of > material about Python and I am really enjoying learning Python. > > One thing that could have helped Python documentation is that instead of the > very "raw" doc string, it could have used something like PythonDoc (java doc > style) so that the functions/classes are documented better. At least I am > planning to use PythonDoc for the code that I am going to write. Let me know > if there is a better one.. Several projects are trying to improve the doc strings with an extended syntax. Personally I prefer the epytext syntax from epydoc [1]. It's a JavaDoc like markup language that extends the raw doc strings with useful information. Christian [1] http://epydoc.sourceforge.net/manual-epytext.html From r1chardj0n3s at gmail.com Sun Aug 2 21:07:55 2009 From: r1chardj0n3s at gmail.com (Richard Jones) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 11:07:55 +1000 Subject: Registation is open for the 9th PyWeek game programming challenge! Message-ID: <3A356906-89BE-47A4-9ECE-4C87A7EA89BE@gmail.com> The ninth PyWeek challenge will run between: Sunday 30th August to Sunday 6th September (00:00UTC to 00:00UTC) The PyWeek challenge invites entrants to write a game in one week from scratch either as an individual or in a team. Entries must be developed in Python, during the challenge, and must incorporate some theme chosen at the start of the challenge. REGISTRATION IS NOW OPEN -- Visit the challenge website to sign up, join discussions in the message board or read the timetable and rules: http://www.pyweek.org/9/ PLANNING FOR THE CHALLENGE -- Make sure you have working versions of the libraries you're going to use. The rules page has a list of libraries and other resources. Make sure you can build packages to submit as your final submission (if you're going to use py2exe, make sure you know how to use it and that it works). If you don't have access to Linux, Windows or a Mac to test on, contact friends, family or other competitors to find someone who is able to test for you. From milesck at umich.edu Sun Aug 2 21:15:10 2009 From: milesck at umich.edu (Miles Kaufmann) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 18:15:10 -0700 Subject: Skipping a superclass In-Reply-To: <02857910$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> References: <02857910$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Message-ID: <3597BCD2-E6D1-4A76-85A2-6C1CA3D8B40B@umich.edu> On Aug 2, 2009, at 5:36 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > I have a series of subclasses like this: > > class A(object): > def method(self, *args): > print "Lots of work gets done here in the base class" > > class B(A): > def method(self, *args): > print "A little bit of work gets done in B" > super(B, self).method(*args) > > class C(B): > def method(self, *args): > print "A little bit of work gets done in C" > super(C, self).method(*args) > > > However, the work done in C.method() makes the work done in B.method() > obsolete: I want one to run, or the other, but not both. C does need > to > inherit from B, for the sake of the other methods, so I want > C.method() > *only* to skip B while still inheriting from A. (All other methods > have > to inherit from B as normal.) This might not be applicable to the larger problem you're trying to solve, but for this sample, I would write it as: class A(object): def method(self, *args): self._method(*args) print "Lots of work gets done here in the base class" def _method(self, *args): pass # or perhaps raise NotImplemented class B(A): def _method(self, *args): print "A little bit of work gets done in B" class C(B): def _method(self, *args): print "A little bit of work gets done in C" > So what I have done is change the call to super in C to super(B, self) > instead of super(C, self). It seems to work, but is this safe to do? > Or > are there strange side-effects I haven't seen yet? In a diamond-inheritance situation, you may end up skipping methods besides just B.method(). -Miles From wuwei23 at gmail.com Sun Aug 2 21:23:39 2009 From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 18:23:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Generate a new object each time a name is imported References: <02853264$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Message-ID: <182b3193-d249-4887-ad23-b9c5a3b6dcd8@y4g2000prf.googlegroups.com> On Aug 3, 4:07?am, Terry Reedy wrote: > Peter Otten wrote: > > Steven D'Aprano wrote: [...] Fantastic question, answer & explanation, guys. Well done. From torriem at gmail.com Sun Aug 2 21:36:08 2009 From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 19:36:08 -0600 Subject: Queryable Daemon In-Reply-To: <81F5E933-9140-4269-AA13-FDB34CB9E895@gmail.com> References: <81F5E933-9140-4269-AA13-FDB34CB9E895@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A763F08.3000504@gmail.com> Justin DeCell wrote: > I was hoping for a little help with a project I'm working on. I'm > writing a daemon in python that I want to be queryable (i.e. I should > be able to run foo -s and it will report some internal information > about the foo daemon if it's running) but I can't figure out a way get > information from that process from an external process. I was thinking > that there should be a way to open a file descriptor, have the daemon > write to that every so often and then have the query process just read > from that fd but it looks like on the process reading from an fd has > to be a child of the daemon for this to work. The only other way I > thought of would be to write to a file on disk every so often from the > daemon and just read the from the query process but it seems like > there should be a more elegant way to do this... Most daemon programs I know of that do this use unix sockets. The socket is typically put in /tmp, or probably better in /var/run, or some other appropriate place. Often this is configurable in a config file that both the daemon and the program or instance that checks the daemon read. Another possibility is shared memory segments. I'm not sure how security is done in this case. Anyway, shared memory is a common IPC mechanism. From steve at nospam.au Sun Aug 2 22:27:22 2009 From: steve at nospam.au (steve) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 12:27:22 +1000 Subject: Test for Pythonwin? References: <4a728aac$0$9744$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au> Message-ID: <4a764b0a$0$22840$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au> "steve" wrote in message news:4a728aac$0$9744$5a62ac22 at per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au... > Is there a good way to check if a script is running inside Pythonwin? > Perhaps a property or method that is exposed by that environment? > > or, alternatively, is there a better place to ask :-) > > Steven > > 'pywin' in sys.modules Didn't want to check for redirection because my redirection code is in a different thread, and I'd have to think about thread synchronization as well. Thanks guys, Steven From icebergwtf at gmail.com Sun Aug 2 22:33:53 2009 From: icebergwtf at gmail.com (tiefeng wu) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 10:33:53 +0800 Subject: RE Question In-Reply-To: <4dc0cfea0908021422x43972682ra58c53a2a43351ee@mail.gmail.com> References: <4dc0cfea0908021422x43972682ra58c53a2a43351ee@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4314c1f70908021933o68857e6fia8a99f039ea9f1d9@mail.gmail.com> 2009/8/3 Victor Subervi : -> Hi; -> How do I search and replace something like this: > aLine = re.sub('[<]?[p]?[>]? a-zA-Z0-9"\'=:]*>[<]?[b]?[>]?', '', aLine) > where RE *only* looks for the possibility of "

" at the beginning of the > string; that is, not the individual components as I have it coded above, but > the entire 3-character block? > TIA, > Victor I'm not sure I totally understand your problem, try this: aLine = re.sub(r'(?:

)?]*>(?:)'.format(str(x)), '', aLine) tiefeng wu 2009-08-03 From aahz at pythoncraft.com Sun Aug 2 22:52:14 2009 From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) Date: 2 Aug 2009 19:52:14 -0700 Subject: Printing with colors in a portable way References: <33e19169-19b4-497a-b262-2bcf7b5637d5@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: In article <33e19169-19b4-497a-b262-2bcf7b5637d5 at r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, Robert Dailey wrote: > >Anyone know of a way to print text in Python 3.1 with colors in a >portable way? In other words, I should be able to do something like >this: > >print_color( "This is my text", COLOR_BLUE ) > >And this should be portable (i.e. it should work on Linux, Mac, >Windows). Much as I hate to say, use a cross-platform GUI -- Tkinter comes with Python, and you can also use SDL via PyGame, wxWindows, pyQT, PyOpenGL, and so on. If that's not an option, you should have said "command-line program". ;-) -- Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/ "...string iteration isn't about treating strings as sequences of strings, it's about treating strings as sequences of characters. The fact that characters are also strings is the reason we have problems, but characters are strings for other good reasons." --Aahz From joshua at azariah.com Sun Aug 2 23:18:43 2009 From: joshua at azariah.com (Joshua J. Kugler) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 19:18:43 -0800 Subject: ANNOUNCE: AwstatsReader 0.01 Message-ID: <200908021918.44365.joshua@azariah.com> ABOUT THE MODULE ================ AwstatsReader is an attempt at a pythonic interface to AWStats data cache files. ?Using it, you can access year, month, and individual data points via dictionary-like accessors. Download here: http://azariah.com/open_source.html ABOUT THE AUTHOR ================ Joshua Kugler (joshua at azariah.com) is a programmer and system administrator with over 10 years of industry experience. ?He is currently looking for a job. ?Happen to have one you could offer him? :) Resume at: http://jjncj.com/papers/KuglerAll.pdf DISCLAIMER ========== This is a "release early, release often" release, codnamed Joshua-hopes- somebody-downloads-this-and-likes-code-quality-and-hires-him. This is an early release...probably pre-alpha. ?There are no tests yet (haven't generated cache files I can release publically), not much documentation, and the interface may change (but I hope not too much). And I haven't even put this in a public repository, as the name might (but probably won't) change. I wrote this via examples from an AWStats cache file, so I'm sure there are sections for which I do not have definitions. ?If you would send me those sections, I'll be sure to add them. The error handling is probably a little light. ?Certainly could be improved. Right now, this will parse and display cache files from AWStats 6.5. I've not tested other versions yet, as 6.5 is the only version I've had access to so far. INSTALLATION ============ See INSTALL LICENSE ======= See COPYING EXAMPLE ======= import AwstatsReader obj ?= AwstatsReader.AwstatsReader('/path/to/awstats_logs', 'example.com') print obj[2007] print obj[2008][6] m = obj[2009][7] print m['general'] # Access like a dictionary... print m['general']['LastLine'] #...or like an object attribute print m['general'].LastLine print m.general.LastLine FEEDBACK ======== Please send questions/comments/suggestions to awstatsreader at azariah.com For now, you can find the latest version here: http://azariah.com/open_source.html From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar Mon Aug 3 00:13:17 2009 From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 01:13:17 -0300 Subject: RE Question References: <4dc0cfea0908021422x43972682ra58c53a2a43351ee@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: En Sun, 02 Aug 2009 18:22:20 -0300, Victor Subervi escribi?: > How do I search and replace something like this: > aLine = re.sub('[<]?[p]?[>]? a-zA-Z0-9"\'=:]*>[<]?[b]?[>]?', '', aLine) > where RE *only* looks for the possibility of "

" at the beginning of > the > string; that is, not the individual components as I have it coded above, > but > the entire 3-character block? An example would make it more clear; I think you want to match either "

" is optional. Use a normal group or a non-capturing group: r'(

)? Message-ID: <19e16923-b200-498b-9ab2-f7d316b568a6@d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> On Aug 2, 9:52?pm, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote: [snip] > Much as I hate to say, use a cross-platform GUI -- Tkinter comes with > Python, [snip] Why is Tkinter such a whipping boy of the Python community? I know it's very simple and does not have all the bells and whistles of wx, but i think the gentle learning curve is very important for those struggling to learn GUI's. Even today I always use Tkinter first, and then only reach for wx when absolutely necessary. Seems to me the relativity small footprint(GUI wise) compared to the payoffs are worth the inclusion. I think if Tkinter where ever removed from Python it would be not only a disservice to the language but also a detriment to the *new* users of the language. Just my humble opinion From anthra.norell at bluewin.ch Mon Aug 3 03:40:00 2009 From: anthra.norell at bluewin.ch (Anthra Norell) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 09:40:00 +0200 Subject: Compiling regex inside function? Message-ID: <4A769450.5080702@bluewin.ch> Hi all, I have a regex that has no use outside of a particular function. From an encapsulation point of view it should be scoped as restrictively as possible. Defining it inside the function certainly works, but if re.compile () is run every time the function is called, it isn't such a good idea after all. E.g. def entries (l): r = re.compile ('([0-9]+) entr(y|ies)') match = r.search (l) if match: return match.group (1) So the question is: does "r" get regex-compiled once at py-compile time or repeatedly at entries() run time? Frederic From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz Mon Aug 3 03:40:41 2009 From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 19:40:41 +1200 Subject: Registation is open for the 9th PyWeek game programming challenge! In-Reply-To: <3A356906-89BE-47A4-9ECE-4C87A7EA89BE@gmail.com> References: <3A356906-89BE-47A4-9ECE-4C87A7EA89BE@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A769479.9080707@canterbury.ac.nz> Richard Jones wrote: > The ninth PyWeek challenge will run between: > > Sunday 30th August to Sunday 6th September (00:00UTC to 00:00UTC) Yow, hard on the heels of Pyggy! I'd hoped there might be a bit more breathing room, sorry about that! Hope the Pyggy entrants aren't feeling too burned out to participate. -- Greg From deets at nospam.web.de Mon Aug 3 03:45:32 2009 From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 09:45:32 +0200 Subject: Is python buffer overflow proof? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7dnissF2bthr0U1@mid.uni-berlin.de> Marcus Wanner schrieb: > On 8/2/2009 10:43 AM, Christian Heimes wrote: >> Marcus Wanner wrote: >>> I believe that python is buffer overflow proof. In fact, I think that >>> even ctypes is overflow proof... >> >> No, ctypes isn't buffer overflow proof. ctypes can break and crash a >> Python interpreter easily. >> >> Christian >> > I see. I thought that it said "invalid array index" when you try to > read/write outside of an array's bounds, though... But you can cast the resulting pointer to an array of larger size, and there you are. Diez From davea at ieee.org Mon Aug 3 04:04:04 2009 From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 04:04:04 -0400 Subject: Run pyc file without specifying python path ? In-Reply-To: <7F0503CD69378F49BE0DC30661C6CCF67D49D318@enbmail01.lsi.com> References: <7F0503CD69378F49BE0DC30661C6CCF6701A26C4@enbmail01.lsi.com> <4A708F68.1010505@ieee.org> <7F0503CD69378F49BE0DC30661C6CCF6701A26C7@enbmail01.lsi.com> <4A7199FF.8010202@dejaviewphoto.com> <7F0503CD69378F49BE0DC30661C6CCF6701A26D2@enbmail01.lsi.com> <4A71D35F.3090800@dejaviewphoto.com> <7F0503CD69378F49BE0DC30661C6CCF67D49D30E@enbmail01.lsi.com> <4A755DE6.1000906@ieee.org> <7F0503CD69378F49BE0DC30661C6CCF67D49D318@enbmail01.lsi.com> Message-ID: <4A7699F4.1050400@ieee.org> Barak, Ron wrote: > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Dave Angel [mailto:davea at ieee.org] >> Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 12:36 >> To: Barak, Ron >> Cc: 'python-list at python.org' >> Subject: Re: Run pyc file without specifying python path ? >> >> Barak, Ron wrote: >> >>> Hi Dave, >>> >>> It seems like I don't understand your solution. >>> I use the (attached) soapAPI.py as the wrapper to parsing.pyc. >>> However, if I do (for instance): >>> >>> $ python -u parsing.pyc -U aaa >>> >>> The last line of the output is (as expected): >>> >>> return_code: 12 ; params: {'username': 'aaa'} >>> >>> But, if I try the following: >>> >>> $ soapAPI.py -U aaa >>> >>> I don't get this line. Only the output to stderr gets >>> >> printed to the screen. >> >>> Bye, >>> Ron. >>> >>> >>> >> Hi Ron, >> >> To make it easier for anybody following this thread, let me >> post the minimum equivalent source files, inline. >> >> parsing.py: >> ------------------------------ >> #!/usr/bin/env python >> >> import sys >> >> def main(): >> print >> sys.stderr, "This is stderr output" >> return 5, sys.argv >> >> if __name__ == "__main__": >> return_code, params = main() >> print "return_code:",return_code,"; params:",params >> sys.exit(return_code) >> ------------------------------- >> soapapi.py: >> ------------------------------- >> #!/usr/bin/env python >> >> import sys >> import parsing >> >> parsing.main() >> ------------------------------ >> >> >> When I run soapapi.;py, it indeed prints only the stderr output. >> >> The solution is to move (most or all) of the top-level code >> of parsing.py into a main() function. Since you already have >> a main(), I'll rename that, and make a new one that calls it. >> >> new parsing.py: >> ------------------------------- >> #!/usr/bin/env python >> >> import sys >> >> def innermain(): >> print >> sys.stderr, "This is stderr output" >> return 5, sys.argv >> >> def main(): >> return_code, params = innermain() >> print "return_code:",return_code,"; params:",params >> sys.exit(return_code) >> >> if __name__ == "__main__": >> main() >> ------------------------------- >> >> The output is now two lines, one from innermain(), and one >> from main(). >> And it's the same whether the user runs parsing.py or soapAPI.py >> >> To clarify what happened, realize that when the user invokes >> parsing.py, the module is considered a script, and gets a >> pseudo-name of >> "__main__" When that same module is imported by another one, it is >> considered a library module, and gets its own name "parsing" >> >> So any logic that explicitly checks for "__main__" has to >> change, because we want identical behavior in the two cases. >> >> DaveA >> >> >> > > Hi Dave, > > Trying your above scripts, I get other results than you do. E.g.: > > $ python parsing.py --help > return_code: 5 ; params: ['parsing.py', '--help'] > This is stderr output > > $ python soapapi.py --help > This is stderr output > > $ > > So, in my environment (cygwin on win xp, python Python 2.5.2) I'm getting different results than you get, namely - soapapi.py on my environment does not show the stdout output. > On which environment did you get identical results from your parsing.py and soapapi.py ? > > Bye, > Ron. > > $ cat parsing.py > #!/usr/bin/env python > > import sys > > def main(): > print >> sys.stderr, "This is stderr output" > return 5, sys.argv > > if __name__ == "__main__": > return_code, params = main() > print "return_code:",return_code,"; params:",params > sys.exit(return_code) > > $ cat soapapi.py > #!/usr/bin/env python > > import sys > import parsing > > parsing.main() > > > > Please read my message again, especially starting with the words "the solution is." I showed two versions of parsing.py, and you're still using the broken version. I posted both versions, with descriptions of what I changed and why, so that you could see why the change was important. I'm using sys.version == 2.6.2 (r262:71600, Apr 21 2009, 15:05:37) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)] Running on XP Sp3. And 2.5 will give identical results, though I don't have it installed any more. DaveA From matt.urry at googlemail.com Mon Aug 3 04:36:41 2009 From: matt.urry at googlemail.com (ma3mju) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 01:36:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Processes not exiting References: <6cfb2f39-c6d6-4d2a-882c-18f21addf206@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> <61d7fcbb-17f8-4314-90b6-0a6db22abd6d@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> <01b55c48-3252-4cec-8781-98487a9071ae@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <996e50f5-c126-4ac2-ae8d-458d22a26ee1@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> On 2 Aug, 21:49, Piet van Oostrum wrote: > >>>>> MRAB (M) wrote: > >M> I wonder whether one of the workers is raising an exception, perhaps due > >M> to lack of memory, when there are large number of jobs to process. > > But that wouldn't prevent the join. And you would probably get an > exception traceback printed. > > I wonder if something fishy is happening in the multiprocessing > infrastructure. Or maybe the Fortran code goes wrong because it has no > protection against buffer overruns and similar problems, I think. > -- > Piet van Oostrum > URL:http://pietvanoostrum.com[PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4] > Private email: p... at vanoostrum.org I don't think it's a memory problem, the reason for the hard and easy queue is because for larger examples it uses far more RAM. If I run all of workers with harder problems I do begin to run out of RAM and end up spending all my time switching in and out of swap so I limit the number of harder problems I run at the same time. I've watched it run to the end (a very boring couple of hours) and it stays out of my swap space and everything appears to be staying in RAM. Just hangs after all "poison" has been printed for each process. The other thing is that I get the message "here" telling me I broke out of the loop after seeing the poison pill in the process and I get all the things queued listed as output surely if I were to run out of memory I wouldn't expect all of the jobs to be listed as output. I have a serial script that works fine so I know individually for each example the fortran code works. Thanks Matt From MatzeGuentert at gmx.de Mon Aug 3 04:46:29 2009 From: MatzeGuentert at gmx.de (Matthias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=FCntert?=) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 08:46:29 +0000 Subject: M2Crypto: X509.X509_Extension_Stack() throws AssertionError Message-ID: <1249289189.3205.5.camel@celsius> Hello python-list members Why is the following code snippet throwing an AssertionError? Is that behavior a bug within X509.X509_Extension_Stack()? How would you suggest popping every element from the stack? Regards, Matthias G?ntert ------------------------------------------------- from M2Crypto import X509 if __name__ == '__main__': cert_extension_stack = X509.X509_Extension_Stack() cert_extension_1 = X509.new_extension("basicConstraints", "CA:FALSE") cert_extension_1.set_critical() cert_extension_2 = X509.new_extension("keyUsage", "101000000") cert_extension_2.set_critical() cert_extension_3 = X509.new_extension("subjectAlternativeName", "DNS:www.mydomain.tld") print cert_extension_stack.push(cert_extension_1) print cert_extension_stack.push(cert_extension_2) print cert_extension_stack.push(cert_extension_3) print cert_extension_stack.pop() ------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------- Traceback (most recent call last): File "test.py", line 18, in print cert_extension_stack.pop() File "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/M2Crypto/X509.py", line 159, in pop assert len(self.pystack) == 0 AssertionError 1 2 3 ------------------------------------------------- From zdenekmaxa at yahoo.co.uk Mon Aug 3 05:19:11 2009 From: zdenekmaxa at yahoo.co.uk (Zdenek Maxa) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 11:19:11 +0200 Subject: urllib2.urlopen timeout Message-ID: <4A76AB8F.5090403@yahoo.co.uk> Hi, I would like to ask how I should set timeout for a call: f = urllib2.urlopen(url) I am using Python 2.5. I have already tried socket.setdefaulttimeout(3). However, this adversely affects other connections the application makes, since it seems to affect all socket connections. I know that Python 2.6 offers urllib2.urlopen(url[, data][, timeout]) which would elegantly solved my problem, but I have to stick to Python 2.5. I am doing urlopen in a thread so I want to avoid really long hanging on this call, which happens at times, until some default timeout ticks out. All hints appreciated. Thanks, Zdenek From jeanmichel at sequans.com Mon Aug 3 06:46:45 2009 From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 12:46:45 +0200 Subject: Printing with colors in a portable way In-Reply-To: References: <33e19169-19b4-497a-b262-2bcf7b5637d5@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <4A76C015.5010600@sequans.com> Nobody wrote: > On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 15:40:37 -0700, Robert Dailey wrote: > > >> Anyone know of a way to print text in Python 3.1 with colors in a >> portable way? In other words, I should be able to do something like >> this: >> >> print_color( "This is my text", COLOR_BLUE ) >> >> And this should be portable (i.e. it should work on Linux, Mac, >> Windows). >> > > The way that terminals (and emulators) handle colour is fundamentally > different from the DOS/Windows console. If you want something which will > work on both, you will have write separate implementations for terminals > and the DOS/Windows console. > > For terminals, you can use the "curses" package, e.g.: > > import curses > > curses.setupterm() > setaf = curses.tigetstr('setaf') > setab = curses.tigetstr('setab') > > def foreground(num): > if setaf: > sys.stdout.write(curses.tparm(setaf, num)) > > def background(num): > if setab: > sys.stdout.write(curses.tparm(setab, num)) > > For the Windows console, you'll need to use ctypes to interface to the > SetConsoleTextAttribute() function from Kernel32.dll. > > FYI http://github.com/jbowes/markymark/blob/59511b36a752b40243cc18fb0fb9800c74549ac1/markymark.py If the URL ever becomes invalid, then google for markymark.py You can use it either to color your Linux/Unix terms, or you can just look at the python code to see how to set colors and attributes. JM From hitechpundir at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 07:12:15 2009 From: hitechpundir at gmail.com (sirjee) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 04:12:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: problem in event handling on change of variable value. References: <9c0d7a31-0310-4499-9974-92afc588f315@d15g2000prc.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <27a8e24c-7f58-4952-b45a-439601223199@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com> On Aug 1, 2:22?pm, sirjee wrote: > hello; > > i m facing a problem in handling events on change of value of > environment variable in a toolCANoe. > > class CANoeEvents: > ? ? def OnChange(self,value): > ? ? ? ? print "value of environment variable has changed" > ? ? def OnOpen(self,App): > ? ? ? ? print "opening Application" > > App_Event = DispatchWithEvents('CANoe.Application',CANoeEvents) > time.sleep(2) > App_Event.Open("C:\projectConfig.cfg") ?# printd "opening Application" > and event handled properly. > .......(now a code file runs in thecanoein which value of > environment variable called dummy is changed during execution. Just > like OnOpen; OnChange is defined in specification which should be > called on change of environment variable.But it is not happening.) > while (): > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? myenvVar = App_Event.Environment.GetVariable("dummy") > > The VB does it very easily and defines a subroutine called : > Sub myenvVar _OnChange(value) > ? ?print "value of environment variable has changed" > End Sub > //////////////////////////////////////////////////however the > alternative for subroutine for OnOpen in VB (defined below) works fine > as shown above in python. > Sub AppEvent_OnOpen(App) > ? ? ? ? print "opening Application" > End Sub > > for VB; all this stuff is cake work.... object_eventname subroutine > and done.....what in python? hi all; strange !!!! i got answer to the problem posted by me only. now I have very good control of CANoe tool from python.... if anybody faces any problem wrt automation of CANoe tool using python; do contact me. here actual problem lied in analysing and implementing com heirarchy. ( which is really bit cumbersome) onChange event is associated with App_Event.Environment.GetVariable ("dummy") object. So we need to associate separate class with this object and then write onChange function: class evtClass: def __init__(self): print "initializing event class" def OnChange(self,value): print "value of environment variable changing" print "changed value of environment variable is" print value see = App_Event.Environment.GetVariable("dummy") see_temp=DispatchWithEvents(see,evtClass) this will solve problem. So we need to create separate classes for events associated with separate objects. regards sirjee From marcusw at cox.net Mon Aug 3 08:01:00 2009 From: marcusw at cox.net (Marcus Wanner) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 08:01:00 -0400 Subject: Is python buffer overflow proof? In-Reply-To: <7dnissF2bthr0U1@mid.uni-berlin.de> References: <7dnissF2bthr0U1@mid.uni-berlin.de> Message-ID: On 8/3/2009 3:45 AM, Diez B. Roggisch wrote: > Marcus Wanner schrieb: >> On 8/2/2009 10:43 AM, Christian Heimes wrote: >>> Marcus Wanner wrote: >>>> I believe that python is buffer overflow proof. In fact, I think >>>> that even ctypes is overflow proof... >>> >>> No, ctypes isn't buffer overflow proof. ctypes can break and crash a >>> Python interpreter easily. >>> >>> Christian >>> >> I see. I thought that it said "invalid array index" when you try to >> read/write outside of an array's bounds, though... > > > But you can cast the resulting pointer to an array of larger size, and > there you are. > > Diez Ah, that makes sense. I had forgotten about ctypes.cast(). Marcus From riaz.ahmadskh at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 08:03:46 2009 From: riaz.ahmadskh at gmail.com (Riaz Ahmad) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 05:03:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: "PAKISTAN NEWS" "PAKISTANI NEWSPAPERS" "MAGAZINES ON LINE" "URDU LANGUAGE SOFTWARES" "URDU POETRY PAKISTAN" "PAKISTANI WEB SITE DIRECTOR" "PAKISTANI NEWSPAPERS" "PAKISTAN" "PAKISTAN" on www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com Message-ID: "PAKISTAN NEWS" www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com "PAKISTANI NEWSPAPERS" www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com "MAGAZINES ON LINE" www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com "URDU LANGUAGE SOFTWARES" www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com "URDU POETRY PAKISTAN" www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com "PAKISTANI WEB SITE DIRECTOR" www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com "PAKISTANI NEWSPAPERS" www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com "PAKISTAN" www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com "PAKISTAN" www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com on www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com From hubaghdadi at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 08:14:35 2009 From: hubaghdadi at gmail.com (Hussein B) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 05:14:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Executing remote command with paramiko Message-ID: Hey, I'm trying to run a sudo guarded command over SSH using paramiko +++++++++++++++++++ s = paramiko.SSHClient() s.load_system_host_keys() s.connect(hostname, port, username, passwd) stdin, stdout, stderr = s.exec_command('sudo -s') stdin.write('password\n') stdin.flush() print 'Flushing' stdin, stdout, stderr = s.exec_command('harvester') print stdout.read() s.close() +++++++++++++++++++ It seems to me that the sudo -s isn't getting executed at all. I commented the sudo -s code lines and no error is shown. Thanks for help and time. From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid Mon Aug 3 08:34:28 2009 From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth) Date: 3 Aug 2009 12:34:28 GMT Subject: heapq "key" arguments References: <97932d10-8601-401f-bb69-a98db9036929@p15g2000vbl.googlegroups.com> <1582f82e-34aa-4b66-b989-c9f8351a5f1c@o9g2000prg.googlegroups.com> <4f096546-36a1-4633-9a24-1265ce0929ce@q14g2000vbi.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: "Gabriel Genellina" wrote: > Ok, it's not strictly the same, but usually it doesn't hurt. The heaqp > module doesn't promise anything about equal elements: it may keep the > original order, rearrange them at will, reverse them, whatever. The documentation doesn't say anything directly about stability, but the implementation is actually stable. You can probably assume it must be at least for nlargest and nsmallest otherwise the stated equivalence wouldn't hold: e.g. nsmallest documentation says: Equivalent to: sorted(iterable, key=key)[:n] -- Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com From sjmachin at lexicon.net Mon Aug 3 09:00:33 2009 From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 06:00:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: New implementation of re module References: Message-ID: On Jul 28, 2:34?am, MRAB wrote: > Hi all, > > I've been working on a new implementation of the re module. The details > are athttp://bugs.python.org/issue2636, specifically fromhttp://bugs.python.org/issue2636#msg90954. I've included a .pyd file for > Python 2.6 on Windows if you want to try it out. > Where/how should we report perceived bugs: On that bugs.python.org issue? Here? Private e-mail? From ram.rachum at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 09:18:29 2009 From: ram.rachum at gmail.com (cool-RR) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 06:18:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Announcing PythonTurtle Message-ID: Hello, I wanted to announce that I have just released my little side project, PythonTurtle. Here is its website: http://pythonturtle.com Its goal is to be the lowest-threshold way to learn (or teach) Python. You can read more about it and download it on the website. Ram. From mydevforums at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 10:04:07 2009 From: mydevforums at gmail.com (IronyOfLife) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 07:04:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Python configuration question when python scripts are executed using Appweb as web server. Message-ID: Hi All I have installed python 2.6.2 in windows xp professional machine. I have set the following environment variables -- PYTHONPATH. It points to following windows folders: python root folder, the lib folder and lib-tk folder. I have configured IIS to execute python scripts. I do not have any issues executing python scripts from the python interpreter window or from the browser using IIS as the web server. However, when I use the open source Appweb web browser to execute python scripts. It is able to execute only simple script without issues. For example, hello.py executes fine. hello.py -------------------------------------------------------- #!/usr/bin/env python print "Content-type: text/html\n\n" print "Hello world!" However I am not able to execute python scripts that contain import statements. I need to point out here that i do not have issue with using os or sys packages. When I tried to execute the sample client script that came with the gnutls wrapper for python, I got error. I narrowed it down to the "from ... import" line in the example. from gnutls.crypto import * from gnutls.connection import * Next I modified it to the functions used in the client python scripts (NOTE: I have added some additional functions to connection and crypto python scripts). from gnutls.crypto import X509Certificate, X509PrivateKey, X509CRL from gnutls.connection import AnonClientCred Next step, in order to debug, I used the module finder to see what is happening. To being with I used the module finder to find out the modules loaded for the simple script hello.py. hello2.py -------------------------------------------------------- #!/usr/bin/env python import modulefinder import pdb pdb.set_trace() finder = modulefinder.ModuleFinder() finder.run_script('hello.py') print "Content-type: text/html\n\n" print "" print sys.exc_info() print 'Loaded modules:' for name, mod in finder.modules.iteritems(): print '%s: ' % name, print ','.join(mod.globalnames.keys()[:3]) print '-'*50 print 'Modules not imported:' print '\n'.join(finder.badmodules.iterkeys()) print "" I got the error. Please see below for error as captured from Appweb logs. See lines 3 to 5. cgi:5 main 356: CGI Response: read 89 bytes cgi:6 main 356: Data is: > c:\appweb\web\hello2.py(9)() -> finder = modulefinder.ModuleFinder() (Pdb) cgi:5 main 356: CGI Response: read 0 bytes cmd:7 main getExitCode: process 0, code 1 default:1 main Error: 503 "Service Unavailable" for "/hello2.py", file "c:/appweb/web/hello2.py": CGI process /hello2.py: exited abnormally with exit code: 1 request:5 main 356: flushOutput: background 0 Once again, let me stress that this issue is happening only when I use appweb as the web server. Some details on Appweb that I found out: Appweb opens up a new console process and executes the python scripts. See sample below: cmd:5 pool.0 Running: C:\Dev\Ironic\Tools\Python26\python.exe c:/ appweb/web/hello2.py When python scripts are executed in this fashion, should there be additional command line arguments be passed? Am I missing any additional settings. Also can you help with improving the debugging lines in hello2.py so that I can identify the issue. Please help. Thanks. Ram G. From jeanmichel at sequans.com Mon Aug 3 10:38:43 2009 From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 16:38:43 +0200 Subject: Generate a new object each time a name is imported In-Reply-To: <02853264$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> References: <02853264$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Message-ID: <4A76F673.9010701@sequans.com> Steven D'Aprano wrote: > I would like to generate a new object each time I import a name from a > module, rather than getting the same object each time. For example, > currently I might do something like this: > > # Module > count = 0 > def factory(): > # Generate a unique object each time this is called > global count > count += 1 > return "Object #%d" % count > > > # Calling module > from Module import factory > a = factory() # a == "Object #1" > b = factory() # b == "Object #2" > del factory > > > I'm looking for a way to hide the generation of objects from the caller, > so I could do something like this: > > from Module import factory() as a # a == "Object #1" > from Module import factory() as b # b == "Object #2" > > except of course that syntax is illegal. > > > Why making standard statements do what they're not meant to do ? You could write >import Module > >a = factory() >b = factory() But you already know that. So what's the purpose of making >from Module import factory as a >from Module import factory as b return 2 different objects ? If I had to write this code I would expect 'a is b' to return 'True'. This is no "don't do that" answer, it's a sincere question: what is the benefit of your /new/ syntax ? JM From andre.roberge at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 10:53:43 2009 From: andre.roberge at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9?=) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 07:53:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Announcing PythonTurtle References: Message-ID: <44a7457e-4dc7-4ad4-be80-3585ce693bc9@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> On Aug 3, 10:18?am, cool-RR wrote: > Hello, > > I wanted to announce that I have just released my little side project, > PythonTurtle. > Here is its website:http://pythonturtle.com > > Its goal is to be the lowest-threshold way to learn (or teach) Python. > You can read more about it and download it on the website. > > Ram. Why not make the source available? At the very least, people that do not run windows could try it too. Andr? From jcd at sdf.lonestar.org Mon Aug 3 10:54:05 2009 From: jcd at sdf.lonestar.org (J. Cliff Dyer) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 10:54:05 -0400 Subject: A Bug By Any Other Name ... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1249311245.8865.11.camel@aalcdl07> On Sun, 2009-08-02 at 14:14 +0000, Albert van der Horst wrote: > >This is actually quite thoroughly untrue. In python, *indentation* > is > >significant. Whitespace (internal to a line) is not. You can even > call > >methods like this if you want: > > You totally don't get it. You describe how python is now. > I propose a change to be made to python. Small wonder that that is > different from what it is now. > > > > >>>> s = 'abc' > >>>> s . upper() > >ABC > > You prove nothing by giving examples. > You can disprove by giving one counter example, > here it goes. > > Whitespace (internal to a line) is significant. > In Python you cannot change > xleftgoing = 123000000 > to > x left going = 123 000 000 > > (You can in Algol68) I had a feeling that counterexample would be coming sooner or later. However, it doesn't really address the change you're looking for. Internal whitespace *is* irrelevant, except insofar as it can be used to delimit different tokens in parsing. If tokens are separate, they are separate, and no more or less whitespace is going to make any difference. Again, I'm describing how python is now. Which is not to say it couldn't be changed, I just want to make sure you understand how deep into the heart of python you are trying to cut. You make it sound like a small change, but it is not. You are proposing changing the parsing rules, which completely changes the scope of what is possible and what isn't with python syntax. All to solve a problem that, so far, hasn't been proven to exist in anything other than a speculative way. You're trying to turn an ocean liner around because you left your sunscreen on the dock. Cheers, Cliff From newsgroup at silveraxe.de Mon Aug 3 10:56:17 2009 From: newsgroup at silveraxe.de (Hilmar Bunjes) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 16:56:17 +0200 Subject: Announcing PythonTurtle In-Reply-To: <44a7457e-4dc7-4ad4-be80-3585ce693bc9@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> References: <44a7457e-4dc7-4ad4-be80-3585ce693bc9@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <4a76fa98$0$31327$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net> Andr? schrieb: >> I wanted to announce that I have just released my little side project, >> PythonTurtle. >> Here is its website:http://pythonturtle.com >> >> Its goal is to be the lowest-threshold way to learn (or teach) Python. >> You can read more about it and download it on the website. >> >> Ram. > > Why not make the source available? At the very least, people that do > not run windows could try it too. Isn't this the source: http://github.com/cool-RR/PythonTurtle/tree/master ? Linked at the bottom of the page. Best, Hilmar From sandhyaprabhakaran at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 11:17:53 2009 From: sandhyaprabhakaran at gmail.com (Sandhya Prabhakaran) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 08:17:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Extract the numeric and alphabetic part from an alphanumeric string Message-ID: <984623a6-1bfb-4a82-8ec4-000fa68878d6@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> Hi, I have a string as str='123ACTGAAC'. I need to extract the numeric part from the alphabetic part which I did using >>>numer=re.findall(r'\d+',str) >>>numer 123 To get the alphabetic part, I could do >>>alpha=str.replace('123','') >>>alpha ACTGAAC But when I give >>>alpha=str.replace(numer,'') Traceback (most recent call last): File "", line 1, in TypeError: expected a character buffer object How do I blank out the initial numeric part so as to get just the alphabetic part. The string is always in the same format. Please help. Regards, Sandhya From ram.rachum at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 11:22:50 2009 From: ram.rachum at gmail.com (cool-RR) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 08:22:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Announcing PythonTurtle References: <44a7457e-4dc7-4ad4-be80-3585ce693bc9@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: On Aug 3, 5:53?pm, Andr? wrote: > On Aug 3, 10:18?am, cool-RR wrote: > > > Hello, > > > I wanted to announce that I have just released my little side project, > > PythonTurtle. > > Here is its website:http://pythonturtle.com > > > Its goal is to be the lowest-threshold way to learn (or teach) Python. > > You can read more about it and download it on the website. > > > Ram. > > Why not make the source available? ?At the very least, people that do > not run windows could try it too. > > Andr? Sorry that the link is obscure like that. I'll change it so it's easier to see. From peter at peter-b.co.uk Mon Aug 3 11:31:09 2009 From: peter at peter-b.co.uk (Peter Brett) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 16:31:09 +0100 Subject: Extract the numeric and alphabetic part from an alphanumeric string References: <984623a6-1bfb-4a82-8ec4-000fa68878d6@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Sandhya Prabhakaran writes: > Hi, > > I have a string as str='123ACTGAAC'. > > I need to extract the numeric part from the alphabetic part which I > did using >>>>numer=re.findall(r'\d+',str) >>>>numer > 123 > > To get the alphabetic part, I could do >>>>alpha=str.replace('123','') >>>>alpha > ACTGAAC > But when I give >>>>alpha=str.replace(numer,'') > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "", line 1, in > TypeError: expected a character buffer object > > How do I blank out the initial numeric part so as to get just the > alphabetic part. The string is always in the same format. Firstly, you really should read the Regular Expression HOWTO: http://docs.python.org/howto/regex.html#regex-howto Secondly, is this what you wanted to do? >>> p = re.compile(r'^\d+') >>> p.sub('', '123ACTGAAC') 'ACTGAAC' Regards, Peter -- Peter Brett Remote Sensing Research Group Surrey Space Centre From andreas.tawn at ubisoft.com Mon Aug 3 11:33:00 2009 From: andreas.tawn at ubisoft.com (Andreas Tawn) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 17:33:00 +0200 Subject: Extract the numeric and alphabetic part from an alphanumeric string In-Reply-To: <984623a6-1bfb-4a82-8ec4-000fa68878d6@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> References: <984623a6-1bfb-4a82-8ec4-000fa68878d6@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <8AEDA5E3386EA742B8C24C95FF0C758007C8ACF4@PDC-MAIL3.ubisoft.org> > Hi, > > I have a string as str='123ACTGAAC'. > > I need to extract the numeric part from the alphabetic part which I > did using > >>>numer=re.findall(r'\d+',str) > >>>numer > 123 > > To get the alphabetic part, I could do > >>>alpha=str.replace('123','') > >>>alpha > ACTGAAC > But when I give > >>>alpha=str.replace(numer,'') > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "", line 1, in > TypeError: expected a character buffer object > > How do I blank out the initial numeric part so as to get just the > alphabetic part. The string is always in the same format. > > Please help. > > Regards, > Sandhya If the format's always the same, you could use slicing instead. >>> s = '123ACTGAAC' >>> s[:3] '123' >>> s[3:] 'ACTGAAC' BTW, you should avoid using built-ins like str for variable names. Bad things will happen. Cheers, Drea From python at mrabarnett.plus.com Mon Aug 3 11:43:30 2009 From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 16:43:30 +0100 Subject: Extract the numeric and alphabetic part from an alphanumeric string In-Reply-To: <984623a6-1bfb-4a82-8ec4-000fa68878d6@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> References: <984623a6-1bfb-4a82-8ec4-000fa68878d6@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <4A7705A2.2010301@mrabarnett.plus.com> Sandhya Prabhakaran wrote: > Hi, > > I have a string as str='123ACTGAAC'. > > I need to extract the numeric part from the alphabetic part which I > did using >>>> numer=re.findall(r'\d+',str) >>>> numer > 123 > [snip] I get: ['123'] which is a _list_ of the strings found. From kushal.kumaran+python at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 11:49:15 2009 From: kushal.kumaran+python at gmail.com (Kushal Kumaran) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 21:19:15 +0530 Subject: Extract the numeric and alphabetic part from an alphanumeric string In-Reply-To: <984623a6-1bfb-4a82-8ec4-000fa68878d6@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> References: <984623a6-1bfb-4a82-8ec4-000fa68878d6@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <1e364c4e0908030849u7583637h9c8d688f8520b904@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:47 PM, Sandhya Prabhakaran wrote: > Hi, > > I have a string as str='123ACTGAAC'. > > I need to extract the numeric part from the alphabetic part which I > did using >>>>numer=re.findall(r'\d+',str) >>>>numer > 123 > The docs for re.findall say that it returns a list of matches. So '123' will be numer[0]. > To get the alphabetic part, I could do >>>>alpha=str.replace('123','') >>>>alpha > ACTGAAC > But when I give >>>>alpha=str.replace(numer,'') > Traceback (most recent call last): > ?File "", line 1, in > TypeError: expected a character buffer object > That's what would happen if you pass in a list instead of a string to replace. > How do I blank out the initial numeric part so as to get just the > alphabetic part. The string is always in the same format. > > Please help. > -- kushal From python at mrabarnett.plus.com Mon Aug 3 12:00:05 2009 From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 17:00:05 +0100 Subject: New implementation of re module In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A770985.5020900@mrabarnett.plus.com> John Machin wrote: > On Jul 28, 2:34 am, MRAB wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I've been working on a new implementation of the re module. The details >> are athttp://bugs.python.org/issue2636, specifically fromhttp://bugs.python.org/issue2636#msg90954. I've included a .pyd file for >> Python 2.6 on Windows if you want to try it out. >> > > Where/how should we report perceived bugs: On that bugs.python.org > issue? Here? Private e-mail? > Probably on http://bugs.python.org/issue2636. From ethan at stoneleaf.us Mon Aug 3 12:00:43 2009 From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 09:00:43 -0700 Subject: Python docs disappointing In-Reply-To: <7bb4df03-f09a-40b0-83f8-1c6d0c9800a8@j21g2000vbn.googlegroups.com> References: <7bb4df03-f09a-40b0-83f8-1c6d0c9800a8@j21g2000vbn.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <4A7709AB.4060105@stoneleaf.us> Carl Banks wrote: > On Jul 31, 1:55 pm, Mark Lawrence wrote: > >>Apart from that what have the Pythonistas ever done for us? Nothing!:) > > > > Please don't feed the trolls. > > And if you do feed the trolls don't smile at them. > > > Carl Banks And if you do smile at them, don't show your teeth! ~Ethan~ From deets at nospam.web.de Mon Aug 3 12:01:14 2009 From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 18:01:14 +0200 Subject: Compiling regex inside function? References: Message-ID: <7dofubF2crctpU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> Anthra Norell wrote: > Hi all, > > I have a regex that has no use outside of a particular function. From > an encapsulation point of view it should be scoped as restrictively as > possible. Defining it inside the function certainly works, but if > re.compile () is run every time the function is called, it isn't such a > good idea after all. E.g. > > def entries (l): > r = re.compile ('([0-9]+) entr(y|ies)') > match = r.search (l) > if match: return match.group (1) > > So the question is: does "r" get regex-compiled once at py-compile time > or repeatedly at entries() run time? This can't be answered as simple yes/no-question. While the statement is executed each time, the resulting pattern-object isn't re-created, instead there is a caching-mechanism inside the module - so unless you create a situation where that cache's limits are exceeded and pattern objects are removed from it, you are essentially having the overhead of one function-call & a dict-lookup. Certainly worth it. As an additional note: r"" has *nothing* todo with this, that's just so-called raw string literals which have a different escaping-behavior - thus it's easier to write regexes in them. Diez From cjw at ncf.ca Mon Aug 3 12:04:50 2009 From: cjw at ncf.ca (Colin J. Williams) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 12:04:50 -0400 Subject: Announcing PythonTurtle In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: cool-RR wrote: > Hello, > > I wanted to announce that I have just released my little side project, > PythonTurtle. > Here is its website: > http://pythonturtle.com > > Its goal is to be the lowest-threshold way to learn (or teach) Python. > You can read more about it and download it on the website. > > Ram. It looks neat but it's not yet ready for prime time. Colin W. From robert.kern at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 12:24:19 2009 From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 11:24:19 -0500 Subject: iterate lines with regex In-Reply-To: <75c8645a0908011239q54292379tb02ff4de364839af@mail.gmail.com> References: <75c8645a0908011239q54292379tb02ff4de364839af@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 2009-08-01 14:39, Michael Savarese wrote: > > I'm a python newbie and I'm trying to test several regular expressions > on the same line before moving on to next line. > it seems to move on to next line before trying all regular expressions > which is my goal. > it only returns true for first regular expression > does the curser have to be rest to beginning of line? If so, how would I > do that. > remember I'm new > thanks in advance to any advice > Mike S. > > the following is part of my code, > readThis=open('c:/9320.txt','r') > > for line in readThis: > try: > thisKey = key.search(line).group(1) > thisMap = map.search(line).group(1) > thisParcel = parcel.search(line).group(1) > except: > continue What is happening is that either key or map fails to match and trying to get a group raises an exception. This is caught, and the "continue" statement tells the for-loop to go to the next line in readThis. The "continue" statement does not mean "go back to where the error was raised and continue executing as if no error happened". The key to using try: except: properly is to surround as little code as possible. Also, to explicitly state which exceptions you are going to catch. In this case, though, you don't want to use exceptions. You should deal with the match objects that are the result of the .search() method. for line in readThis: key_match = key.search(line) if key_match is not None: this_key = key_match.group(1) # ... do something with this_key map_match = map.search(line) if map_match is not None: this_map = map_match.group(1) # ... do something with this_map parcel_match = parcel.search(line) if parcel_match is not None: this_parcel = parcel_match.group(1) # ... do something with this_parcel -- Robert Kern "I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth." -- Umberto Eco From wuwei23 at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 12:40:02 2009 From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 09:40:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Extract the numeric and alphabetic part from an alphanumeric string References: <984623a6-1bfb-4a82-8ec4-000fa68878d6@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <3fc2ad25-8af7-452e-aab5-5716064d758f@y28g2000prd.googlegroups.com> Sandhya Prabhakaran wrote: > I have a string as str='123ACTGAAC'. You shouldn't use 'str' as a label like that, it prevents you from using the str() function in the same body of code. > How do I blank out the initial numeric part so as to get just the > alphabetic part. The string is always in the same format. >>> sample = '123ACTGAAC' >>> numer = ''.join(s for s in sample if s.isdigit()) >>> alpha = ''.join(s for s in sample if s.isalpha()) >>> numer, alpha ('123', 'ACTGAAC') If by 'always in the same format' you mean the positions of the numbers & alphas, you could slightly abuse the struct module: >>> import struct >>> sample = '123ACTGAAC' >>> format = '3s7s' # a string of 3 + a string of 7 >>> struct.unpack(format, sample) ('123', 'ACTGAAC') But seriously, you should use slicing: >>> sample = '123ACTGAAC' >>> sample[0:3], sample[3:] ('123', 'CTGAAC') You can also label the slices, which can be handy for self-documenting your code: >>> num = slice(3) >>> alp = slice(4,10) >>> sample[num], sample[alp] ('123', 'CTGAAC') From ram.rachum at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 12:47:43 2009 From: ram.rachum at gmail.com (cool-RR) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 09:47:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Announcing PythonTurtle References: Message-ID: <729a6652-cdfa-49b8-8013-6d7861b8020e@d4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> On Aug 3, 7:04?pm, "Colin J. Williams" wrote: > cool-RR wrote: > > Hello, > > > I wanted to announce that I have just released my little side project, > > PythonTurtle. > > Here is its website: > >http://pythonturtle.com > > > Its goal is to be the lowest-threshold way to learn (or teach) Python. > > You can read more about it and download it on the website. > > > Ram. > > It looks neat but it's not yet ready for prime time. > > Colin W. I agree there's a lot that can be improved - I wanted to put it out there so I could get feedback and fix the important things first. So I'd appreciate you telling me what you think needs improvement. Ram. From sandhyaprabhakaran at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 12:52:48 2009 From: sandhyaprabhakaran at gmail.com (Sandhya Prabhakaran) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 18:52:48 +0200 Subject: Extract the numeric and alphabetic part from an alphanumeric string In-Reply-To: <1e364c4e0908030849u7583637h9c8d688f8520b904@mail.gmail.com> References: <984623a6-1bfb-4a82-8ec4-000fa68878d6@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> <1e364c4e0908030849u7583637h9c8d688f8520b904@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Oh yes indeed........! Now that works :D Thanks a lot !! 2009/8/3 Kushal Kumaran > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:47 PM, Sandhya > Prabhakaran wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I have a string as str='123ACTGAAC'. > > > > I need to extract the numeric part from the alphabetic part which I > > did using > >>>>numer=re.findall(r'\d+',str) > >>>>numer > > 123 > > > > The docs for re.findall say that it returns a list of matches. So > '123' will be numer[0]. > > > To get the alphabetic part, I could do > >>>>alpha=str.replace('123','') > >>>>alpha > > ACTGAAC > > But when I give > >>>>alpha=str.replace(numer,'') > > Traceback (most recent call last): > > File "", line 1, in > > TypeError: expected a character buffer object > > > > That's what would happen if you pass in a list instead of a string to > replace. > > > How do I blank out the initial numeric part so as to get just the > > alphabetic part. The string is always in the same format. > > > > Please help. > > > > -- > kushal > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From python at rcn.com Mon Aug 3 12:55:06 2009 From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 09:55:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: heapq "key" arguments References: <97932d10-8601-401f-bb69-a98db9036929@p15g2000vbl.googlegroups.com> <1582f82e-34aa-4b66-b989-c9f8351a5f1c@o9g2000prg.googlegroups.com> <4f096546-36a1-4633-9a24-1265ce0929ce@q14g2000vbi.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <3d2f5ff5-201e-4451-b9e7-fb33652b44a7@d9g2000prh.googlegroups.com> [Duncan Booth] > The documentation doesn't say anything directly about stability, but the > implementation is actually stable. You can probably assume it must be at > least for nlargest and nsmallest otherwise the stated equivalence wouldn't > hold: > > e.g. nsmallest documentation says: > > ? ? ? ? Equivalent to: sorted(iterable, key=key)[:n] Yes. The code for nsmallest and nlargest preserves stability so that the equivalence is maintained. Raymond From wuwei23 at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 12:56:02 2009 From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 09:56:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Compiling regex inside function? References: Message-ID: Anthra Norell wrote: > def entries (l): > ? ? ? ? r = re.compile ('([0-9]+) entr(y|ies)') > ? ? ? ? match = r.search (l) > ? ? ? ? if match: return match.group (1) > > So the question is: does "r" get regex-compiled once at py-compile time > or repeatedly at entries() run time? The docs say: The compiled versions of the most recent patterns passed to re.match (), re.search() or re.compile() are cached, so programs that use only a few regular expressions at a time needn?t worry about compiling regular expressions. (But they don't say how few is 'only a few'...) If you're concerned about it, you could always set the compiled pattern to a default value in the function's argspec, as that _is_ only executed the once: def entries(line, regex = re.compile('([0-9]+) entr(y|ies)'): match = regex.search(line) ... From nagle at animats.com Mon Aug 3 12:57:08 2009 From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 09:57:08 -0700 Subject: Help understanding the decisions *behind* python? In-Reply-To: References: <988a5f49-7907-4351-bfd0-7bb05e821795@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <4a7715ff$0$1641$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> Dave Angel wrote: > sturlamolden wrote: >> On 20 Jul, 18:27, Phillip B Oldham wrote: >> Tuples are used for passing arguments to and from a function. Common >> use of tuples include multiple return values and optional arguments >> (*args). That's from Mesa, the Xerox PARC language of the 1970s. Mesa used tuples for subroutine arguments in a very straightforward way. Every function took one tuple as an argument, written as parameters in parentheses separated by commas. Every function returned a tuple as an argument. This had a nice symmetry; function outputs and function inputs had the same form. Mesa was the first language to break through the "single return value" syntax problem. Python doesn't go that far. John Nagle From wuwei23 at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 13:02:57 2009 From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 10:02:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Help understanding the decisions *behind* python? References: <988a5f49-7907-4351-bfd0-7bb05e821795@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> <4a7715ff$0$1641$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> Message-ID: <686a0fac-b746-488f-9514-a1849fbda94d@g1g2000pra.googlegroups.com> John Nagle wrote: > Every function returned a tuple as an argument. This had a nice > symmetry; function outputs and function inputs had the same form. ? > Mesa was the first language to break through the "single return > value" syntax problem. > > ? ? Python doesn't go that far. I assume here you're referring to the former point and not the latter? From nobody at nowhere.com Mon Aug 3 13:23:06 2009 From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 18:23:06 +0100 Subject: Queryable Daemon References: <81F5E933-9140-4269-AA13-FDB34CB9E895@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 19:36:08 -0600, Michael Torrie wrote: > Another possibility is shared memory segments. I'm not sure how > security is done in this case. Shared memory segments have an owner, group, and the standard ugo=rwx permissions (execute permission is present but ignored); see the shmget(2) and shmctl(2) manpages. But Unix-domain sockets are supported by the standard library, while shared memory would require a separate library, e.g.: http://semanchuk.com/philip/PythonIpc/ Also, there is unlikely to be an advantage to using shared memory in Python. In most cases, you would have to explicitly serialise Python objects into the shared memory region. It's more useful in C, where you can treat the region as a struct which is accessed directly from the program. From python at mrabarnett.plus.com Mon Aug 3 13:29:56 2009 From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 18:29:56 +0100 Subject: iterate lines with regex In-Reply-To: References: <75c8645a0908011239q54292379tb02ff4de364839af@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A771E94.70805@mrabarnett.plus.com> Robert Kern wrote: [snip] > > for line in readThis: > key_match = key.search(line) > if key_match is not None: > this_key = key_match.group(1) > # ... do something with this_key > map_match = map.search(line) > if map_match is not None: > this_map = map_match.group(1) > # ... do something with this_map > parcel_match = parcel.search(line) > if parcel_match is not None: > this_parcel = parcel_match.group(1) > # ... do something with this_parcel > re.search and re.match will return a MatchObject if successful or None if unsuccessful. A MatchObject is always true, so you can simplify to: ... if key_match: this_key = key_match.group(1) # ... do something with this_key ... From python at rcn.com Mon Aug 3 13:36:28 2009 From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 10:36:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: heapq "key" arguments References: <97932d10-8601-401f-bb69-a98db9036929@p15g2000vbl.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: [Joshua Bronson]: > According tohttp://docs.python.org/library/heapq.html, Python 2.5 > added an optional "key" argument to heapq.nsmallest and > heapq.nlargest. I could never understand why they didn't also add a > "key" argument to the other relevant functions (heapify, heappush, > etc). The problem is that heapq acts on regular lists, so it does not have exclusive access to the structure. So, there is no reliable way for it to maintain a separate list of keys. Since the keys can't be saved in the structure (without possibly breaking other code), the fine grained heapq functions (like heappop and heappush) would need to call key functions every time they are invoked. This is at odds with the implicit guarantee of the key function that it will be called no more than once per key. The overall problem is one of granularity. A key function should be applied once in an initial pass, not on every call to a push/pop function. The everyday solution that most people use is to operate on a list of (key, record) tuples and let tuple comparison do the work for you. Another solution is to build a Heap class that does have exclusive access to the structure, but the API sugar often isn't worth the slightly weaker performance. One other thought. Heaps are a lazy evaluation structure, so their fined-grained mutation functions only work well with just a single ordering function, so there is not need to have (and every reason to avoid) changing key functions in mid-stream. IOW, the key function needs to be constant across all accesses. Contrast this with other uses of key functions where it makes perfect sense to run minage=min(data, key=attrgetter('age')) and then running minsal=min(data, key=attrgetter('salary')). The flexibility to change key functions just doesn't make sense in the context of the fine-grained heap functions. Accordingly, this is why I put key functions in nlargest() and nsmallest() but not in heappush() and friends. The former can guarantee no more than one key function call per entry and they evaluate immediately instead of lazily. Raymond From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid Mon Aug 3 13:47:05 2009 From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth) Date: 3 Aug 2009 17:47:05 GMT Subject: Compiling regex inside function? References: Message-ID: alex23 wrote: > The docs say: > The compiled versions of the most recent patterns passed to re.match > (), re.search() or re.compile() are cached, so programs that use only > a few regular expressions at a time needn?t worry about compiling > regular expressions. > > (But they don't say how few is 'only a few'...) If you're interested then it isn't all that hard to open up re.py in an editor and see that the cache holds up to 100 items. Of course that's just an implementation detail so other versions might have a different size cache. Also implementation dependant, but it might be worth knowing that when you hit that limit the cache is simply cleared: there's no gradual clearing of the oldest or least used entries. From bcharrow at csail.mit.edu Mon Aug 3 14:26:38 2009 From: bcharrow at csail.mit.edu (Ben Charrow) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 14:26:38 -0400 Subject: urllib2.urlopen timeout In-Reply-To: <4A76AB8F.5090403@yahoo.co.uk> References: <4A76AB8F.5090403@yahoo.co.uk> Message-ID: <4A772BDE.4020602@csail.mit.edu> Zdenek Maxa wrote: > Hi, > > I would like to ask how I should set timeout for a call: > > f = urllib2.urlopen(url) > > > I know that Python 2.6 offers > urllib2.urlopen(url[, data][, timeout]) > which would elegantly solved my problem, but I have to stick to Python 2.5. > There are three solutions that I know about: 1) Make your own little HTTP library and set timeouts for each of your sockets. 2) The same as the above, except use asynchronous sockets and the the select module. 3) If you're on a Unix style system, use the signal module (the example is helpful http://docs.python.org/library/signal.html#example) Here's some code: import urllib2 import signal class TimeoutException(Exception): """SIGALARM was sent to the process""" pass def raise_timeout(signum, frame): raise TimeoutException("Timeout!") signal.signal(signal.SIGALRM, raise_timeout) try: signal.alarm(5) # raise alarm in 5 seconds data = urllib2.urlopen("http://www.google.com").readlines() except TimeoutException, ex: data = None finally: signal.alarm(0) # disable alarm HTH, Ben From sakradevanamindra at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 14:39:24 2009 From: sakradevanamindra at gmail.com (Leo Brugud) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 11:39:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Can python do something like the onclick events in javascript ? Message-ID: <68e15376-75b5-4ad7-afe4-e058e33a427a@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com> I'm trying to use python to build a simple web page that make use of the onclick behavior, instead of requiring users to click the 'submit' button. I realize in javascript there are onclick, onchange events. Is python capable of doing the same? Thanks in Advance From robert.kern at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 14:44:07 2009 From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 13:44:07 -0500 Subject: iterate lines with regex In-Reply-To: <4A771E94.70805@mrabarnett.plus.com> References: <75c8645a0908011239q54292379tb02ff4de364839af@mail.gmail.com> <4A771E94.70805@mrabarnett.plus.com> Message-ID: On 2009-08-03 12:29, MRAB wrote: > Robert Kern wrote: > [snip] >> >> for line in readThis: >> key_match = key.search(line) >> if key_match is not None: >> this_key = key_match.group(1) >> # ... do something with this_key >> map_match = map.search(line) >> if map_match is not None: >> this_map = map_match.group(1) >> # ... do something with this_map >> parcel_match = parcel.search(line) >> if parcel_match is not None: >> this_parcel = parcel_match.group(1) >> # ... do something with this_parcel >> > re.search and re.match will return a MatchObject if successful or None > if unsuccessful. A MatchObject is always true, so you can simplify to: > > ... > if key_match: > this_key = key_match.group(1) > # ... do something with this_key > ... True, but I prefer to maintain a consistent style for None-testing regardless of whether or not I am sure the not-None type will have a suitable __nonzero__ implementation. -- Robert Kern "I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth." -- Umberto Eco From deets at nospam.web.de Mon Aug 3 14:45:14 2009 From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 20:45:14 +0200 Subject: Can python do something like the onclick events in javascript ? In-Reply-To: <68e15376-75b5-4ad7-afe4-e058e33a427a@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com> References: <68e15376-75b5-4ad7-afe4-e058e33a427a@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <7dophqF2crpcqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> Leo Brugud schrieb: > I'm trying to use python to build a simple web page that make use of > the onclick behavior, instead of requiring users > to click the 'submit' button. If that's the only reason, don't use JS for that, it's annoying. > I realize in javascript there are onclick, onchange events. Is python > capable of doing the same? Somewhat, through a python-2-javascript-translation: http://pyjs.org/ Diez From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu Mon Aug 3 14:54:58 2009 From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 14:54:58 -0400 Subject: Can python do something like the onclick events in javascript ? In-Reply-To: <68e15376-75b5-4ad7-afe4-e058e33a427a@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com> References: <68e15376-75b5-4ad7-afe4-e058e33a427a@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 2:39 PM, Leo Brugud wrote: > I'm trying to use python to build a simple web page that make use of > the onclick behavior, instead of requiring users > to click the 'submit' button. > > I realize in javascript there are onclick, onchange events. Is python > capable of doing the same? > It depends. Python is usually used as a server-side language while Javascript is client-side. The client's web browser requests a web page, your program processes that request and sends the client a web page. That web page can contain anything you want, including Javascript. Your python program never hears from that client again until the *client* initiates contact, be it through a submit button or a javascript event that submits an HTTP request. You'll have to add the onclick and onchange code to the resulting web page, using Javascript, because Python never handles sending the request, jsut receiving it. Of course, this isn't the case if you are using something like pyjs, which compiles Python code to Javascript, your code will be running as Javascript code and not Python code. > > Thanks in Advance > -- > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From saimapk81 at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 15:01:51 2009 From: saimapk81 at gmail.com (saima81) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 12:01:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: "MAGZINES IN URDU" "PAKISTANI MAGZINES" PAKISTAN" "PAKISTAN" "PAKISTANI NEWSPAPERS" "tHE eXPRTESS" "JANG NEWS" "WAQT" "DAWN" ON www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com Message-ID: <054ce11f-597a-4c6e-b130-68a3bee4ad1b@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com> "MAGZINES IN URDU" "PAKISTANI MAGZINES" PAKISTAN" "PAKISTAN" "PAKISTANI NEWSPAPERS" "tHE eXPRTESS" "JANG NEWS" "WAQT" "DAWN" ON www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com From sam at tregar.com Mon Aug 3 15:11:38 2009 From: sam at tregar.com (Sam Tregar) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 15:11:38 -0400 Subject: Online payment module Message-ID: Hello all. I'm considering building a module to provide a cross-payment-gatewat API for making online payments. In the Perl world we have a module like this called Business::OnlinePayment ( http://search.cpan.org/~jasonk/Business-OnlinePayment-2.01/OnlinePayment.pm). Is there anything like this in Python? My searches so far haven't turned up anything. If I don't find one I'll probably build one, covering PayPal and Authorize.net to start. If anyone is interested in discussing the project and/or getting involved shoot me an email. Thanks, -sam -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ethan at stoneleaf.us Mon Aug 3 15:21:57 2009 From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 12:21:57 -0700 Subject: .dbf tables and Null In-Reply-To: <2f4d5719-6ca8-4ef2-8734-420b3044b1dc@l35g2000pra.googlegroups.com> References: <2f4d5719-6ca8-4ef2-8734-420b3044b1dc@l35g2000pra.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <4A7738D5.3010009@stoneleaf.us> John Machin wrote: > On Aug 1, 3:41 am, Ethan Furman wrote: > >>Mornin'! and a good one, too, I hope. >> >>Question for you... >> >>First part of the question: What is the general value in having Null >>capability for fields? > > > In general, in any database system, so that one can distinguish > between "the customer has no 'middle name'" ('') and "the customer's > 'middle name' is unknown" (NULL). > > >>Second part: Is there a tangible difference between Null, and the >>nothing of 0, '', False, etc, in python? > > > 0 is the zero thing, it is not nothing. False is not nothing. > > > >>Third part: If there is a tangible difference, do those of us who use >>python and these old, refuse-to-die, .dbf files actually have need of, >>or have tables including, Null values? >> >>P.S. part (for John Machin, if he sees this ;) >>Will the dbf package you are working on support Null values? > > > My philosophy when digging stuff out of arcane storages is to expose > what is found and leave any kludging/sanitising to the next layer. > > For example, None is returned for an N (Number) field that's all > spaces; it's up to the caller to decide whether to treat None as zero, > raise an exception, pop up a data-collection dialogue box, ... > > If you mean specifically the Visual Foxpro v3 _NullFlags hack, yes, it > already supports that, as well as the VFP9 abuse of that hack for > Varchar and Varbinary fields :-) Thank you. It's been an interesting journey learning Python. Probably the two most difficult concepts for me to really internalize have been "batteries included" (thank you for the pointer to struct!) (I finally 'found' and incorporated array into my dbf module), and "everything is an object, even functions!". The unittest module worked wonderfully in making sure everything still worked after switching over to array as well, and the 30+% speed-up is also nice! :) All in all, I *love* Python! ~Ethan~ From no.email at please.post Mon Aug 3 15:59:23 2009 From: no.email at please.post (kj) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 19:59:23 +0000 (UTC) Subject: kw param question Message-ID: I want to write a decorator that, among other things, returns a function that has one additional keyword parameter, say foo=None. When I try def my_decorator(f): # blah, blah def wrapper(*p, foo=None, **kw): x = f(*p, **kw) if (foo): # blah, blah else # blah blah return wrapper ...i get a syntax error where it says "foo=None". I get similar errors with everything else I've tried. Is is possible to do this in Python? TIA! kynn From hjtoi-better-remove-before-reply at comcast.net Mon Aug 3 16:08:37 2009 From: hjtoi-better-remove-before-reply at comcast.net (Heikki Toivonen) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 13:08:37 -0700 Subject: M2Crypto: X509.X509_Extension_Stack() throws AssertionError References: Message-ID: Matthias G?ntert wrote: > Why is the following code snippet throwing an AssertionError? Is that > behavior a bug within X509.X509_Extension_Stack()? How would you suggest > popping every element from the stack? > > cert_extension_2 = X509.new_extension("keyUsage", "101000000") Maybe your OpenSSL is too old. keyUsage needs to be defined in OpenSSL obj_dat.h file for this to work. > cert_extension_3 = X509.new_extension("subjectAlternativeName", > "DNS:www.mydomain.tld") And I believe you mispelled this, try subjectAltName. With the change in spelling for subjectAltName your test passes for me using OpenSSL 1.0.0beta3 and M2Crypto 0.20beta with the (still incomplete) patch to make M2Crypto work with OpenSSL 1.0: https://bugzilla.osafoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12855 -- Heikki Toivonen - http://heikkitoivonen.net From marduk at letterboxes.org Mon Aug 3 16:27:34 2009 From: marduk at letterboxes.org (Albert Hopkins) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 16:27:34 -0400 Subject: kw param question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1249331254.1179.7.camel@brotherus.corp.redhat.com> On Mon, 2009-08-03 at 19:59 +0000, kj wrote: > > I want to write a decorator that, among other things, returns a > function that has one additional keyword parameter, say foo=None. > > When I try > > def my_decorator(f): > # blah, blah > def wrapper(*p, foo=None, **kw): > x = f(*p, **kw) > if (foo): > # blah, blah > else > # blah blah > return wrapper > > ...i get a syntax error where it says "foo=None". I get similar > errors with everything else I've tried. > Not exactly sure what you're trying to do.. but, regular arguments must be used *before* positional and keyword arguments so the definition: def wrapper(*p, foo=None, **kw): is syntactically incorrect whereby the following is correct: def wrapper(foo=None, *p, **kw): But if what you are wanting is to actually add 'foo' to kw then I would do this: def my_decorator(f): # blah, blah def wrapper(*p, **kw): if 'foo' not in kw: kw['foo'] = None x = f(*p, **kw) if kw['foo']: # blah blah else: # blah blah return wrapper From rt8396 at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 16:35:51 2009 From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 13:35:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Announcing PythonTurtle References: <729a6652-cdfa-49b8-8013-6d7861b8020e@d4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hello, I wanted to announce that I have just released my little side project, PythonTurtle. [snip] I think it looks great --haven't download the source yet-- but i really like the screenshot. This will be more "inviting" to the new, inexperianced users. I like the idea of packaging up the command prompt and the canvas into one very friendly interface. I especially like that you are using a "real" turtle. I can remember the first time i used turtle (in python stdlib) and i kept saying to myself... "Were the heck is this damn turtle?!?!" (>_<) :-) From bartsmeets86 at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 16:39:44 2009 From: bartsmeets86 at gmail.com (Bart Smeets) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 22:39:44 +0200 Subject: easy_install: unresolved external symbol Message-ID: <2119ee90908031339o71e19624qa815241b446d739d@mail.gmail.com> Hello, I keep getting errors when trying to use easy_install to install bbfreeze or cxfreeze (same errors). This is the output: http://pastebin.com/m65ba474d The error message unresolved external symbol keeps popping up. I have no idea how to solve this. Can anyone give me a hint? Thanks in advance -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wells at submute.net Mon Aug 3 16:47:23 2009 From: wells at submute.net (Wells Oliver) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 15:47:23 -0500 Subject: Ordering of dict keys & values Message-ID: <3f1a902d0908031347g6e5dbbb7v832b0abc924a020@mail.gmail.com> I understand that the keys in a dictionary are ordered not randomly but something practically close to it, but if I create a SQL query like so: query = 'INSERT INTO Batting (%s) VALUES(%s)' % (','.join(stats.keys()), ','.join(stats.values())) Can I at least rely on the value being in the same index as its corresponding key? -- Wells Oliver wells at submute.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dciphercomputing at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 16:55:13 2009 From: dciphercomputing at gmail.com (Simon) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 13:55:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Newbie Question regarding __init__() References: <6ccf5dbe-4b71-4159-88bb-c6a14aa785a9@k26g2000vbp.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <01bcf8b8-687c-4bf4-acbb-b059a480d382@f33g2000vbm.googlegroups.com> On Aug 2, 5:51?am, Dave Angel wrote: > Simon wrote: > > Okay I will fix my code and include "self" and see what happens. ?I > > know I tried that before and got another error which I suspect was > > another newbie error. > > > The idea behind the init_Pre is that I can put custom code here to > > customize the __init__ instead of creating a new subclass. ?This kind > > of hook pattern allows you to flatten your inheritance hierarchy. ?I > > can choose in the init_Pre method to execute code before the init_exec > > (which contains the default __init__ code) and still execute the > > init_Exec method or I can completely customize the entire __init__ by > > returning False from init_Pre and prevent the init_Exec from being > > called. ?I use this type of pattern with almost all my methods. ?In > > this way I can create a less complicated inheritance chain but still > > have have custom code when needed without sub-classing. > > > I am use to Visual FoxPro which where you can do > > > =is.init_Pre().And.This.init_Exec() and the result is discarded so > > that is why it looks the way it does. ?In this form init_Exec has to > > return a value. ?However, If self.init_Pre(): self.init_Exec() would > > work the same and then I could avoid returning a value. > > > Thanks, > > Simon > > > On Aug 1, 5:52 am, Dave Angel wrote: > > >> Nat Williams wrote: > > >>> As MRAB described, ALL instance methods need to accept 'self' as a first > >>> parameter, as that will be passed to them implicitly when they are called. > >>> This includes __init__. ?The name 'self' is just a commonly accepted > >>> convention for the name of the instance object passed to methods. ?You don't > >>> have to call it that, but you really should. > > >>> Take a look athttp://docs.python.org/tutorial/classes.html#class-objects > >>> It might help shed some light on how methods and instances work. > > >>> One other thing. ?I'm a little confused by the first line of > >>> dcObject.__init__: > > >>> self.init_Pre() and self.init_Exec() > > >>> I suspect this does not do what you think it does. ?init_Pre and init_Exec > >>> will both be called by this expression (unless init_Pre throws an exception, > >>> of course). ?You're not getting anything here that you wouldn't by just > >>> calling each method on a separate line, except just making it harder to > >>> read. > > >> Read the doc-string for init_Pre() and for init_Exec(). ?The final > >> version of init_Pre() will return False in some circumstances, and in > >> those circumstances Simon doesn't want init_Exec() to be called. ?He's > >> deliberately using the short-circuit evaluation of ?'and' ?to accomplish > >> that. > > >>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 8:53 PM, Simon wrote: > > >>>> Hi > > >>>> So should the dcObject class include the "self" as well since I have > >>>> not defined an __init__ method in dcCursor? > > >>>> Simon > > >>>> -- > >>>>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list > > >> Every one of those methods in both of those classes need a "self" first > >> argument. ?As others have said, all instance methods need a 'self.' > > (Please don't top-post. ?You should put new responses at the end of > quoted text, or sometimes inline if that's clearer.) > > I don't understand your comparison to Foxpro. ?read on. > > As your code was last posted, you don't need a return value from > init_Exec() ?Every function that doesn't have an explicit return will > return None. ?And None is interpreted as False in an "and" expression. ? > If you had an "if" around the whole thing, then you'd care. > > DaveA All I meant by the FoxPro comment was the idea of using the equal sign without a variable to throw away the result. Also in FoxPro there is no such thing as automatically returning None. If there is no explicit return then True is returned. Thanks I did not know that None is interpreted as False. Simon From no.email at please.post Mon Aug 3 16:58:46 2009 From: no.email at please.post (kj) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 20:58:46 +0000 (UTC) Subject: kw param question References: Message-ID: In Albert Hopkins writes: >On Mon, 2009-08-03 at 19:59 +0000, kj wrote: >> >> I want to write a decorator that, among other things, returns a >> function that has one additional keyword parameter, say foo=None. >> >> When I try >> >> def my_decorator(f): >> # blah, blah >> def wrapper(*p, foo=None, **kw): >> x = f(*p, **kw) >> if (foo): >> # blah, blah >> else >> # blah blah >> return wrapper >> >> ...i get a syntax error where it says "foo=None". I get similar >> errors with everything else I've tried. >> >Not exactly sure what you're trying to do.. Yeah, I wasn't too clear. I figured out how to do what I wanted to do: def my_decorator(f): # blah, blah def wrapper(*p, **kw): foo = kw.pop('force', None) x = f(*p, **kw) if (foo): # blah, blah else # blah blah return wrapper Now the definitions of the original functions do not include the foo=None argument, but "actual" functions (i.e. the ones generated by the decorator) all accept the optional foo parameter. The only remaining problem is how to document this... I don't see how pydoc could possibly figure this one out. I guess this is sufficient argument to abandon this idea. Bummer. kynn From pavlovevidence at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 17:04:12 2009 From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 14:04:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: iterate lines with regex References: <75c8645a0908011239q54292379tb02ff4de364839af@mail.gmail.com> <4A771E94.70805@mrabarnett.plus.com> Message-ID: <463f3ea4-c8a4-405b-9eab-95a878684db0@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> On Aug 3, 11:44?am, Robert Kern wrote: > On 2009-08-03 12:29, MRAB wrote: > > > > > > > Robert Kern wrote: > > [snip] > > >> for line in readThis: > >> key_match = key.search(line) > >> if key_match is not None: > >> this_key = key_match.group(1) > >> # ... do something with this_key > >> map_match = map.search(line) > >> if map_match is not None: > >> this_map = map_match.group(1) > >> # ... do something with this_map > >> parcel_match = parcel.search(line) > >> if parcel_match is not None: > >> this_parcel = parcel_match.group(1) > >> # ... do something with this_parcel > > > re.search and re.match will return a MatchObject if successful or None > > if unsuccessful. A MatchObject is always true, so you can simplify to: > > > ... > > if key_match: > > this_key = key_match.group(1) > > # ... do something with this_key > > ... > > True, but I prefer to maintain a consistent style for None-testing regardless of > whether or not I am sure the not-None type will have a suitable __nonzero__ > implementation. There's one thing to keep in mind. In the unknown future, it's possible that re.match could be changed to return an object with a false value that contains some information about the reason for failure, or partial match information, or something like that. If that happens, code like: if m: will continue to work, while code like if m is not None: will suddenly fail. Granted, it's not likely to happen for regexps but it could happen in similar situations in other places. I am one of the biggest critics of implicit boolean values, but given that Python has it, I think it is best to adhere strongly idiomatic uses like regexps. Carl Banks From sturlamolden at yahoo.no Mon Aug 3 17:04:53 2009 From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 14:04:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Is python buffer overflow proof? References: Message-ID: On 2 Aug, 15:50, Jizzai wrote: > Is a _pure_ python program buffer overflow proof? > > For example in C++ you can declare a char[9] to hold user input. > If the user inputs 10+ chars a buffer overflow occurs. Short answer: NO Bounds checking on sequence types is a protection against buffer overflow, but is certainly not sufficient. The Python interpreter is written in C. Python extension modules are written in C (or something similar). If you find an unprotected buffer in this C code, you can possibly overflow this buffer. This can be used for nasty things like corrupting the stack and injecting malicious code. There is a reason why the Python sandbox (rexec and Bastion modules) was disabled in Python 2.3. IronPython and Jython provides better protection against buffer overflow than CPython, as these interpreters are written in safer languages (C# and Java). You thus get an extra layer of protection between the Python code and the unsafe C (used in JVM and .NET runtimes). From no.email at please.post Mon Aug 3 17:07:32 2009 From: no.email at please.post (kj) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 21:07:32 +0000 (UTC) Subject: no-clobber dicts? Message-ID: I use the term "no-clobber dict" to refer to a dictionary D with the especial property that if K is in D, then D[K] = V will raise an exception unless V == D[K]. In other words, D[K] can be set if K doesn't exist already among D's keys, or if the assigned value is equal to the current value of D[K]. All other assignments to D[K] trigger an exception. The idea here is to detect inconsistencies in the data. This is a data structure I often need. Before I re-invent the wheel, I thought I'd ask: is it already available? TIA! kynn From aurele.tux at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 17:11:20 2009 From: aurele.tux at gmail.com (aurelien) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 23:11:20 +0200 Subject: Hello to the community Message-ID: <1249333880.7712.20.camel@r2d2> Hello to the Python community ! I'm a totaly newbbie in this langage. I hope i will learn a lot with you. Thanks. aurelien From boris.arloff at yahoo.com Mon Aug 3 17:25:06 2009 From: boris.arloff at yahoo.com (Boris Arloff) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 14:25:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Trying to get ABC to work Message-ID: <358094.5069.qm@web65302.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> Hi, ? Looking for ideas on getting Abstract Base Classes to work as intended within a metaclass. ? I was wondering if I could use an abc method within a metaclass to force a reimplementation when a class is instantiated from the metaclass.? It seems like I cannot do so.? I implemented the following test case: ? import abc class MetaExample(type): ? def __init__(cls, name, bases, ns): ??? setattr(cls, 'cls_meth', cls.cls_meth)??? # cls method as instance method ??? setattr(cls, 'cls_abc', cls.cls_abc)????????# abc cls method as instance method ? ? def cls_meth(cls): ??? print('Class method defined stub') ? ? @abc.abstractmethod ? def cls_abc(cls): ??? try: ????? print('Class-Abstract method defined stub') ??? except NotImplementedError, err: ????? print('Must implement cls_abc.') ??? except: ????? print('General exception at cls_abc method.') ? Then I create class MyKlass from the metaclass and instantiate it as myklass: MyKlass(object): __metaclass__ = MetaExample myklass = MyKlass() myklass.cls_meth()?? --> prints "Class method defined stub" myklass.cls_abc()???? --> prints "Class-Abstract method defined stub" ? I was hopping for myklass.cls_abc() to print "Must implement cls_abc." ? However, this makes sense since?MyKlass implements from the metaclass the cls_abc method and?there will never be an abstraction?of this method. ? Any ideas on how to get this done?? Any way I could define an abstract method within a metaclass and have it behave?with abstraction when the class is created off the metaclass? ? I other words, I want to force an implementation of cls_abc() method when MyKlass(object): __metaclass__ = MetaExample is declared, or else get NotImplementedError exception. ? Thanks, Boris Arloff ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From clp2 at rebertia.com Mon Aug 3 17:25:18 2009 From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 14:25:18 -0700 Subject: Ordering of dict keys & values In-Reply-To: <3f1a902d0908031347g6e5dbbb7v832b0abc924a020@mail.gmail.com> References: <3f1a902d0908031347g6e5dbbb7v832b0abc924a020@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <50697b2c0908031425i22fd02ffjde3e41a697eb1c30@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 1:47 PM, Wells Oliver wrote: > I understand that the keys in a dictionary are ordered not randomly but > something practically close to it, but if I create a SQL query like so: > > query = 'INSERT INTO Batting (%s) VALUES(%s)' % (','.join(stats.keys()), > ','.join(stats.values())) > > Can I at least rely on the value being in the same index as its > corresponding key? Yes. Per http://docs.python.org/library/stdtypes.html#dict.items : """ Note: Keys and values are listed in an arbitrary order which is non-random, varies across Python implementations, and depends on the dictionary?s history of insertions and deletions. If items(), keys(), values(), iteritems(), iterkeys(), and itervalues() are called with no intervening modifications to the dictionary, the lists will directly correspond. This allows the creation of (value, key) pairs using zip(): pairs = zip(d.values(), d.keys()). """ Cheers, Chris -- http://blog.rebertia.com From Samnsparky at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 17:29:05 2009 From: Samnsparky at gmail.com (Sparky) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 14:29:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: WindowsError: exception: access violation writing 0x00000000 Message-ID: <73c6c4f5-a00b-4f95-a85d-0f257b2f001a@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> Hello! I am using cTypes on Windows to interface with a dll and I keep getting an error when I execute this method: def eDigitalIn(self, channel, idNum = None, demo = 0, readD=0): """ Name: U12.eAnalogIn(channel, idNum = None, demo = 0, readD=0) Args: See section 4.4 of the User's Guide Desc: This is a simplified version of Counter. Reads & resets the counter (CNT). """ if idNum is None: idNum = self.id ljid = ctypes.c_long(idNum) state = ctypes.c_long(999) ecode = staticLib.ECount(ctypes.byref(ljid), demo, channel, readD, ctypes.byref(state)) if ecode != 0: raise LabJackException(ecode) if ljid == -1: raise LabJackException(-1, "LabJack not found.") return {"idnum":ljid.value, "state":state.value} Here is the error message: Traceback (most recent call last): File "", line 1, in device.eDigitalIn(0) File "C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Documents\Python \LabJackPython_new\u12.py", line 118, in eDigitalIn ecode = staticLib.ECount(ctypes.byref(ljid), demo, channel, readD, ctypes.byref(state)) WindowsError: exception: access violation writing 0x00000000 Here is the signature of the method (which is known to work with C++ programs): long _stdcall EDigitalIn(long *idnum, long demo, long channel, long readD, long *state); staticLib is declared with staticLib = ctypes.windll.LoadLibrary ("ljackuw"). Any ideas? Thanks, Sam From rt8396 at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 17:47:54 2009 From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 14:47:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: no-clobber dicts? References: Message-ID: <28309a6c-f6f2-4f11-852f-6e3f570253e7@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> On Aug 3, 4:07?pm, kj wrote: > I use the term "no-clobber dict" to refer to a dictionary D with > the especial property that if K is in D, then > > ? D[K] = V > > will raise an exception unless V == D[K]. ?In other words, D[K] > can be set if K doesn't exist already among D's keys, or if the > assigned value is equal to the current value of D[K]. ?All other > assignments to D[K] trigger an exception. > > The idea here is to detect inconsistencies in the data. > > This is a data structure I often need. ?Before I re-invent the > wheel, I thought I'd ask: is it already available? > > TIA! > > kynn Not sure if something like this already exists, but it would be trivial to implement by overriding dict.__setitem__() badda-bing baby! From clp2 at rebertia.com Mon Aug 3 18:00:14 2009 From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 15:00:14 -0700 Subject: no-clobber dicts? In-Reply-To: <28309a6c-f6f2-4f11-852f-6e3f570253e7@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> References: <28309a6c-f6f2-4f11-852f-6e3f570253e7@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <50697b2c0908031500w23af3271y49ef3aab49a67695@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 2:47 PM, r wrote: > On Aug 3, 4:07?pm, kj wrote: >> I use the term "no-clobber dict" to refer to a dictionary D with >> the especial property that if K is in D, then >> >> ? D[K] = V >> >> will raise an exception unless V == D[K]. ?In other words, D[K] >> can be set if K doesn't exist already among D's keys, or if the >> assigned value is equal to the current value of D[K]. ?All other >> assignments to D[K] trigger an exception. >> >> The idea here is to detect inconsistencies in the data. >> >> This is a data structure I often need. ?Before I re-invent the >> wheel, I thought I'd ask: is it already available? >> >> TIA! >> >> kynn > > Not sure if something like this already exists, but it would be > trivial to implement by overriding dict.__setitem__() That is, if you don't care about .update() not preserving the invariant. Otherwise, one will need to look at the UserDict module. Cheers, Chris -- http://blog.rebertia.com From ram.rachum at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 18:03:31 2009 From: ram.rachum at gmail.com (cool-RR) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 15:03:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Announcing PythonTurtle References: <729a6652-cdfa-49b8-8013-6d7861b8020e@d4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: On Aug 3, 11:35?pm, r wrote: > Hello, > I wanted to announce that I have just released my little side > project, > PythonTurtle. > [snip] > > I think it looks great --haven't download the source yet-- but i > really like the screenshot. This will be more "inviting" to the new, > inexperianced users. I like the idea of packaging up the command > prompt and the canvas into one very friendly interface. ?I especially > like that you are using a "real" turtle. > > I can remember the first time i used turtle (in python stdlib) and i > kept saying to myself... > > ? ? "Were the heck is this damn turtle?!?!" (>_<) > > :-) Thanks for the compliments; The things you mentioned you liked are all things that I was specifically thinking about when I decided to make PythonTurtle. Well, maybe minus the screenshot :) From victorsubervi at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 18:05:13 2009 From: victorsubervi at gmail.com (Victor Subervi) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 18:05:13 -0400 Subject: RE Question In-Reply-To: References: <4dc0cfea0908021422x43972682ra58c53a2a43351ee@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4dc0cfea0908031505t571b8d4cqa28579ae14c9209a@mail.gmail.com> That worked. Thank you again :) Victor On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 12:13 AM, Gabriel Genellina wrote: > En Sun, 02 Aug 2009 18:22:20 -0300, Victor Subervi < > victorsubervi at gmail.com> escribi?: > > > How do I search and replace something like this: >> aLine = re.sub('[<]?[p]?[>]?> a-zA-Z0-9"\'=:]*>[<]?[b]?[>]?', '', aLine) >> where RE *only* looks for the possibility of "

" at the beginning of the >> string; that is, not the individual components as I have it coded above, >> but >> the entire 3-character block? >> > > An example would make it more clear; I think you want to match either > "

" is > optional. Use a normal group or a non-capturing group: > r'(

)? > That said, using regular expressions to parse HTML or XML is terribly > fragile; I'd use a specific tool (like BeautifulSoup, ElementTree, or lxml) > > -- > Gabriel Genellina > > -- > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From darkneter at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 18:14:41 2009 From: darkneter at gmail.com (NighterNet) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 15:14:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: socket policy flash help References: <04e26f53-5f51-476d-823e-47bfeed9b2a8@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com> <8bede581-f260-4c69-abf0-1e8071380b76@z4g2000prh.googlegroups.com> <7e6cdc26-bcc0-4503-b7b4-9ad80b1041f6@v37g2000prg.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: On Aug 2, 12:25?pm, Piet van Oostrum wrote: > >>>>> NighterNet (N) wrote: > >N> Here the full code. > >N> flashpolicy.xml > >N> [[[ > >N> > >N> > >N> ? ? > >N> > >N> ]]] > >N> flashpolicytest_server3x.py > >N> [[[ > >N> #!/usr/local/bin/python > >N> ''' > >N> Still under testing... > >N> python version 3.x.x > >N> ''' > >N> importsocket > >N> import threading > >N> import sys > >N> import os > >N> file_name = 'flashpolicy.xml' > >N> fh = open(file_name, "r") > >N> policy = fh.read(10001) > > You never use that variable. > > > > >N> host = ''; #out side network > >N> port = 5555; > >N> print ("# ?------------- Init... ------------- ?#"); > >N> class ClientThread (threading.Thread): > >N> ? ? ? global policy; > >N> ? ? ? allClients = []; > >N> ? ? ? vlock = threading.Lock(); > >N> ? ? ? id = 0 # next available thread number > >N> ? ? ? def __init__(self,clientSocket): > >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? threading.Thread.__init__(self) > >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? self.sockfd = clientSocket; #socketclient > >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? self.name = ''; > >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ClientThread.id += 1 > >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? self.id = ClientThread.id > >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? self.nickName = ''; > >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? self.allClients.append(self.sockfd); > >N> ? ? ? def sendAll(self,buff): > >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? for index,clientSock in enumerate(self.allClients): > >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? try: > >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? clientSock.send(buff); > > There is no guarantee that send will indeed transmit all of buff. It is > better to use clientSock.sendall(buff). Or you should check the return > value of send and check if it is equal to the length of buff. And repeat > if not. (But sendall is easier). > > Also don't use ; at the end of the statement. It's not pythonic. > > >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? except (socket.error): > >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print ('errorsocket%s\n',index,"| clean"); > >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? clientSock.close() > >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? del self.allClients[index] > >N> ? ? ? def run(self): > >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? while True: > >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? buff = self.sockfd.recv(1028); > > There is no guarantee that recv will get the whole message. It may even > get as little as 1 byte. So you should check the return value of recv. > The official way is to keep reading until you have enough input or until > you hit end of file. > > >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? if not buff: > >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print ("connect close...(client side)"); > >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? self.sockfd.close(); > >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? break #incase it loop infinite > >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? if str(buff) == str("b\'\\x00\'"): > > What you check here is whether buff contains the byte sequence that starts with a > b, then a ' ... and ending with the 5 bytes \ x 0 0 ' which is wrong. > > Actually it should be: > > if buff == b\'\x00': > or > if buff == b\'\0': > > >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print ('policy FOUND >>> sending...') > >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print(buff) > >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? b = b' >N> from domain=\"*\" to-ports=\"*\" />' > >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print (b) > >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? self.sockfd.send(b); > >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? self.sockfd.sendall(b); > > Only self.sockfd.sendall; delete the line with self.sockfd.send(b). And > remove the semicolons for esthetical reasons. > > >N> Some odd reason I can't send flash policy from python to flashsocket > >N> to agrees with the connection. > > -- > Piet van Oostrum > URL:http://pietvanoostrum.com[PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4] > Private email: p... at vanoostrum.org thanks it help. I was not sure about the format most the time. From nagle at animats.com Mon Aug 3 18:19:22 2009 From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 15:19:22 -0700 Subject: Obtaining Python version Message-ID: <4a776184$0$1611$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> This works, but it seems too cute: >>> pyver = map(int,sys.version.split()[0].split('.')) >>> print(pyver) [2, 6, 1] Is it guaranteed that the Python version string will be in a form suitable for that? In other words, does "sys.version" begin N.N.N other stuff in all versions, and will it stay that way? Are there ever non-numeric versions, like "3.2.rc1"? John Nagle From rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 3 18:24:04 2009 From: rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk (Rhodri James) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 23:24:04 +0100 Subject: fast video encoding In-Reply-To: <0c8cfac7-0a70-4e1f-90ec-19e9c45cae89@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> References: <570097d0-2b2a-4705-892f-0d0154d69d63@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> <0c8cfac7-0a70-4e1f-90ec-19e9c45cae89@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 03:44:17 +0100, sturlamolden wrote: > On 29 Jul, 10:14, gregorth wrote: > >> for a scientific application I need to save a video stream to disc for >> further post processing. > > I have worked a bit on this as well. There are two things that make > scientific applications different form common video encoding: > > First, a scientific video stream is often very different from a > 'movie': There are usually very little 'movement'. For example, when I > have filmed a mouse swimming in a water maze (a pool of milky white > water), the only thing that moves is the rat. So I could achieve > excellent compression just by saving the pixels that changed. These are referred to as P-frames; any encoder that gets further than the most basic version of any video protocol will do this for you. Unfortunately, water pixels change a lot from frame to frame, even when the camera is static, so it doesn't gain you as much as you might hope in cases like you mention. > Second, scientific data should be stored with lossless compression if > possible. If data storage is no object, be my guest. Of course, you're going to have to write your own codecs for this, since pretty much every video protocol in existence is lossy. In reality, lossless compression isn't necessary. As long as your quantisation isn't completely up the spout, the added precision isn't actually going to gain you anything unless you're working in very specialised situations; even then, if it does make a significant difference then you needed greater resolution anyway. -- Rhodri James *-* Wildebeest Herder to the Masses From andre.roberge at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 18:32:10 2009 From: andre.roberge at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9?=) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 15:32:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Obtaining Python version References: <4a776184$0$1611$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> Message-ID: <680573fa-6d5a-46eb-b48e-461841b8d887@c1g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> On Aug 3, 7:19?pm, John Nagle wrote: > This works, but it seems too cute: > > ?>>> pyver = map(int,sys.version.split()[0].split('.')) > ?>>> print(pyver) > [2, 6, 1] > You can also do: >>> import sys >>> sys.version_info (2, 5, 2, 'final', 0) or >>> sys.version_info[:3] (2, 5, 2) > Is it guaranteed that the Python version string will be in a form > suitable for that? ?In other words, does "sys.version" begin > > N.N.N other stuff > > in all versions, and will it stay that way? ?Are there ever > non-numeric versions, like "3.2.rc1"? > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? John Nagle I strongly suspect that sys.version_info would never change... Andr? From rt8396 at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 18:34:53 2009 From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 15:34:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Announcing PythonTurtle References: <729a6652-cdfa-49b8-8013-6d7861b8020e@d4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <491ed6e7-08dd-4b26-acb8-38da475491ed@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> On Aug 3, 5:03?pm, cool-RR wrote: [snip] > Thanks for the compliments; The things you mentioned you liked are all > things that I was specifically thinking about when I decided to make > PythonTurtle. Well, maybe minus the screenshot :) I *may* get roasted for this comment, but i think a turtle module along the lines of what you have here would better serve the stdlib. The current implementation is great, but the whole purpose of turtle is to help children or non-programmers get a feel of the language in a very, very, simple and fun way. Your app is presented in much the same way as any over-the-counter windows app any non-programmer has seen before making them *feel* a little more comfortable. [warning wild speculations ahead!!] I just guessing here, but i'll bet many of these *noobs* have found the current turtle just a wee-bit more advanced than they can handle, and *some* have been scared off. I would also venture to say a key-map of sorts that is available thru the help menu where one could push an "Up" button, or a "rotate" button, and have the proper command inserted in the prompt, and then have the command execute, may also help make the connections here, a sort of *real* Visual Basic programming -- sorry Microsoft :P From zuo at chopin.edu.pl Mon Aug 3 18:35:50 2009 From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 00:35:50 +0200 Subject: Obtaining Python version In-Reply-To: <4a776184$0$1611$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> References: <4a776184$0$1611$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> Message-ID: 04-08-2009 o 00:19:22 John Nagle wrote: > This works, but it seems too cute: > > >>> pyver = map(int,sys.version.split()[0].split('.')) > >>> print(pyver) > [2, 6, 1] > > Is it guaranteed that the Python version string will be in a form > suitable for that? In other words, does "sys.version" begin > > N.N.N other stuff > > in all versions, and will it stay that way? Are there ever > non-numeric versions, like "3.2.rc1"? Why not to use: sys.version_info "A tuple containing the five components of the version number: major, minor, micro, releaselevel, and serial. All values except releaselevel are integers; the release level is 'alpha', 'beta', 'candidate', or 'final'. The version_info value corresponding to the Python version 2.0 is (2, 0, 0, 'final', 0)." http://docs.python.org/library/sys.html#sys.version_info Cheers, *j -- Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) From keith at nekotaku.com Mon Aug 3 18:54:15 2009 From: keith at nekotaku.com (KB) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 15:54:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Problem with reading CSV file from URL, last record truncated. Message-ID: <0996356d-ee7d-4a5e-9c0c-9f9502c01892@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com> Hi, I am trying to download from a URL, a CSV using the following: import re import urllib, urllib2, cookielib import mechanize import csv import numpy import os def return_ranking(): cj = mechanize.MSIECookieJar(delayload=True) cj.load_from_registry() # finds cookie index file from registry # set things up for cookies opener = urllib2.build_opener(urllib2.HTTPCookieProcessor(cj)) urllib2.install_opener(opener) reply = opener.open('http://ichart.finance.yahoo.com/table.csv? s=CSCO&a=00&b=01&c=2009&d=01&e=2&f=2010&g=d&ignore=.csv').read() fout=open('csco.csv','wb') fout.write(reply) fout.close fin=open('csco.csv','rb') table = csv.reader(fin) fin.close for row in table: print row return_ranking() I need to use cookies etc (mechanize/urllib2) for a different, more complex URL but since it wasn't working, I went back to a simple Yahoo example (above) which I have working with urllib (not urllib2). The behaviour I am seeing is that the last record is being truncated: (sample output) ['2009-04-08', '17.29', '17.33', '16.94', '17.13', '45389100', '17.13'] ['2009-04-07', '17.20', '17.25', '16.58', '16.85', '59902600', '16.85'] ['200'] A friend said I should do the above writing out to a file and have csvreader read in the file, but as you can see, to no avail! Any help greatly appreciated! Note that urllib.urlretrieve works perfectly but I give up the ability to import cookies from my registry which is all important (AFAIK anyway mechanize requires urllib2). Any help greatly appreciated. From keith at nekotaku.com Mon Aug 3 19:21:02 2009 From: keith at nekotaku.com (KB) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 16:21:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Problem with reading CSV file from URL, last record truncated. References: <0996356d-ee7d-4a5e-9c0c-9f9502c01892@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: On Aug 3, 3:54?pm, KB wrote: > Hi, > > I am trying to download from a URL, a CSV using the following: > > import re > import urllib, urllib2, cookielib > import mechanize > import csv > import numpy > import os > > def return_ranking(): > > ? ? ? ? cj = mechanize.MSIECookieJar(delayload=True) > ? ? ? ? cj.load_from_registry() ?# finds cookie index file from registry > > ? ? ? ? # set things up for cookies > > ? ? ? ? opener = urllib2.build_opener(urllib2.HTTPCookieProcessor(cj)) > > ? ? ? ? urllib2.install_opener(opener) > > ? ? ? ? reply = opener.open('http://ichart.finance.yahoo.com/table.csv? > s=CSCO&a=00&b=01&c=2009&d=01&e=2&f=2010&g=d&ignore=.csv').read() > > ? ? ? ? fout=open('csco.csv','wb') > ? ? ? ? fout.write(reply) > ? ? ? ? fout.close > > > return_ranking() > > I need to use cookies etc (mechanize/urllib2) for a different, more > complex URL but since it wasn't working, I went back to a simple Yahoo > example (above) which I have working with urllib (not urllib2). > > The behaviour I am seeing is that the last record is being truncated: > > (sample output) > ['2009-04-08', '17.29', '17.33', '16.94', '17.13', '45389100', > '17.13'] > ['2009-04-07', '17.20', '17.25', '16.58', '16.85', '59902600', > '16.85'] > ['200'] > > A friend said I should do the above writing out to a file and have > csvreader read in the file, but as you can see, to no avail! > > Any help greatly appreciated! Note that urllib.urlretrieve works > perfectly but I give up the ability to import cookies from my registry > which is all important (AFAIK anyway mechanize requires urllib2). > > Any help greatly appreciated. By moving: > fin=open('csco.csv','rb') > table = csv.reader(fin) > fin.close > > for row in table: > print row outside of the routine and into the mainline, it works like a charm. Would like to know why though, so would love to hear any clues! From piet at cs.uu.nl Mon Aug 3 19:26:58 2009 From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 01:26:58 +0200 Subject: Executing remote command with paramiko References: Message-ID: >>>>> Hussein B (HB) wrote: >HB> Hey, >HB> I'm trying to run a sudo guarded command over SSH using paramiko >HB> +++++++++++++++++++ >HB> s = paramiko.SSHClient() >HB> s.load_system_host_keys() >HB> s.connect(hostname, port, username, passwd) >HB> stdin, stdout, stderr = s.exec_command('sudo -s') >HB> stdin.write('password\n') >HB> stdin.flush() >HB> print 'Flushing' >HB> stdin, stdout, stderr = s.exec_command('harvester') >HB> print stdout.read() >HB> s.close() >HB> +++++++++++++++++++ >HB> It seems to me that the sudo -s isn't getting executed at all. >HB> I commented the sudo -s code lines and no error is shown. >HB> Thanks for help and time. Your command 'harvester' is not run in the sudo shell, but separately in a new session. so it will run under 'username', not under 'root'. You could use stdin, stdout, stderr = s.exec_command('sudo harvester') instead. Or use the lower-level constructs: s = paramiko.SSHClient() s.load_system_host_keys() s.connect(hostname, port, username, password) t = s.get_transport() chan = t.open_session() chan.exec_command('sudo -s') print 'writing password' chan.send(password + '\n') print 'write command' chan.send('whoami\n') print "try to read" print chan.recv(9999) For more control you can use chan.recv_ready() to see if output is available. -- Piet van Oostrum URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4] Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz Mon Aug 3 19:35:12 2009 From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (greg) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 11:35:12 +1200 Subject: Help understanding the decisions *behind* python? In-Reply-To: <4a7715ff$0$1641$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> References: <988a5f49-7907-4351-bfd0-7bb05e821795@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> <4a7715ff$0$1641$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> Message-ID: <7dpagaF2cu16mU1@mid.individual.net> John Nagle wrote: > Mesa used tuples for subroutine arguments in a very straightforward > way. Every function took one tuple as an argument > > Python doesn't go that far. I believe that a very early version of Python did do something like that, but it was found to be a bad idea, because there was an ambiguity between multiple args and a single arg that happened to be a tuple. This was before keyword arguments existed -- they would have been hard to incorporate into the old scheme. -- Greg From rt8396 at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 19:39:25 2009 From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 16:39:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: no-clobber dicts? References: <28309a6c-f6f2-4f11-852f-6e3f570253e7@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <1d95f706-71f4-487e-a920-a31643b76c10@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com> On Aug 3, 5:00?pm, Chris Rebert wrote: > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 2:47 PM, r wrote: [snip] > > Not sure if something like this already exists, but it would be > > trivial to implement by overriding dict.__setitem__() > > That is, if you don't care about .update() not preserving the > invariant. Otherwise, one will need to look at the UserDict module. > > Cheers, > Chris > --http://blog.rebertia.com Good catch Chris. However since the OP said this was for testing purposes, i just *assumed* he would be smart enough *not* to call update() on the dict at hand ;-). But sometimes i need to be protected from myself too -- at least thats what my therapist keeps telling me :-) From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz Mon Aug 3 19:40:06 2009 From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (greg) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 11:40:06 +1200 Subject: fast video encoding In-Reply-To: References: <570097d0-2b2a-4705-892f-0d0154d69d63@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> <0c8cfac7-0a70-4e1f-90ec-19e9c45cae89@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <7dpapgF2ckro4U1@mid.individual.net> Rhodri James wrote: > Unfortunately, water pixels change a lot from frame to frame, even > when the camera is static, so it doesn't gain you as much as you might > hope in cases like you mention. In the case mentioned, the water is of no interest, so it could be removed altogether by a suitable custom compressor. -- Greg From python at mrabarnett.plus.com Mon Aug 3 19:47:23 2009 From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 00:47:23 +0100 Subject: Problem with reading CSV file from URL, last record truncated. In-Reply-To: References: <0996356d-ee7d-4a5e-9c0c-9f9502c01892@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <4A77770B.2070008@mrabarnett.plus.com> KB wrote: > On Aug 3, 3:54 pm, KB wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I am trying to download from a URL, a CSV using the following: >> >> import re >> import urllib, urllib2, cookielib >> import mechanize >> import csv >> import numpy >> import os >> >> def return_ranking(): >> >> cj = mechanize.MSIECookieJar(delayload=True) >> cj.load_from_registry() # finds cookie index file from registry >> >> # set things up for cookies >> >> opener = urllib2.build_opener(urllib2.HTTPCookieProcessor(cj)) >> >> urllib2.install_opener(opener) >> >> reply = opener.open('http://ichart.finance.yahoo.com/table.csv? >> s=CSCO&a=00&b=01&c=2009&d=01&e=2&f=2010&g=d&ignore=.csv').read() >> >> fout=open('csco.csv','wb') >> fout.write(reply) >> fout.close This should be: fout.close() >> > >> return_ranking() >> [snip] > By moving: >> fin=open('csco.csv','rb') >> table = csv.reader(fin) >> fin.close This should be: fin.close() >> >> for row in table: >> print row > > outside of the routine and into the mainline, it works like a charm. > > Would like to know why though, so would love to hear any clues! > The parentheses aren't optional; without them you're just referring to the method, not calling it. Because you weren't closing the file the text wasn't all written to disk. When it returns from return_ranking() there's no longer any reference to 'fout', so the file object is available for collection by the garbage collector. When the file object is collected it writes the remaining text to disk. In CPython the file object is collected as soon as there's no reference to it, but in other implementations that might not be the case. From mensanator at aol.com Mon Aug 3 20:32:03 2009 From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 17:32:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Announcing PythonTurtle References: Message-ID: On Aug 3, 8:18?am, cool-RR wrote: > Hello, > > I wanted to announce that I have just released my little side project, > PythonTurtle. > Here is its website:http://pythonturtle.com > > Its goal is to be the lowest-threshold way to learn (or teach) Python. > You can read more about it and download it on the website. I dunno, looks kind of worthless to me. http://www.mensanator.com/mensanator/PythonTurtle/PythonTurtle.htm > > Ram. From van.lindberg at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 20:42:14 2009 From: van.lindberg at gmail.com (VanL) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 19:42:14 -0500 Subject: Extracting text from html Message-ID: Hello all, Does anyone know of a good tool to get a minimally-formatted text document out of an html document? Something along the lines of what you would get with a lynx -dump, but in Python. I have lxml installed, so I can roll my own if I need to. However, this seemed like the sort of thing that someone would have solved already. Thanks, Van From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar Mon Aug 3 20:42:47 2009 From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 21:42:47 -0300 Subject: Python configuration question when python scripts are executed using Appweb as web server. References: Message-ID: En Mon, 03 Aug 2009 11:04:07 -0300, IronyOfLife escribi?: > I have installed python 2.6.2 in windows xp professional machine. I > have set the following environment variables -- PYTHONPATH. It points > to following windows folders: python root folder, the lib folder and > lib-tk folder. Why? Did you read it somewhere? Usually there is no need to set the PYTHONPATH variable at all; remove it. > I have configured IIS to execute python scripts. > > I do not have any issues executing python scripts from the python > interpreter window or from the browser using IIS as the web server. Try again after PYTHONPATH is removed, and make sure you can import all the required modules from the Python console. Only then try to run the cgi scripts. > However, when I use the open source Appweb web browser to execute > python scripts. It is able to execute only simple script without > issues. [...]However I am not able to execute python scripts that > contain import > statements. I need to point out here that i do not have issue with > using os or sys packages. When I tried to execute the sample client > script that came with the gnutls wrapper for python, I got error. I > narrowed it down to the "from ... import" line in the example. > > from gnutls.crypto import * > from gnutls.connection import * Check that the above lines work fine from inside the Python console. If not, something went wrong when you installed the gnutls Python package. > Next step, in order to debug, I used the module finder to see what is > happening. To being with I used the module finder to find out the > modules loaded for the simple script hello.py. Debugging cgi scripts isn't easy sometimes; try adding this line at the start of your script: import cgitb;cgitb.enable() You should get a nicely formatted stack trace whenever an exception is raised. If you get an HTTP error instead (like 500 Internal Server Error) it's likely a syntax error, you must fix it before continuing. Then, you may find that modulefinder is no more needed. > import pdb > pdb.set_trace() pdb cannot work inside a CGI script; remove that. > Once again, let me stress that this issue is happening only when I use > appweb as the web server. I don't know appweb, but if you first make sure the script works from the command line, it should be much easier to make it work in the web server. -- Gabriel Genellina From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar Mon Aug 3 21:10:57 2009 From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 22:10:57 -0300 Subject: easy_install: unresolved external symbol References: <2119ee90908031339o71e19624qa815241b446d739d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: En Mon, 03 Aug 2009 17:39:44 -0300, Bart Smeets escribi?: > I keep getting errors when trying to use easy_install to install > bbfreeze or > cxfreeze (same errors). > This is the output: > http://pastebin.com/m65ba474d Can't you use the binary packages? -- Gabriel Genellina From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar Mon Aug 3 21:18:08 2009 From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 22:18:08 -0300 Subject: Ordering of dict keys & values References: <3f1a902d0908031347g6e5dbbb7v832b0abc924a020@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: En Mon, 03 Aug 2009 17:47:23 -0300, Wells Oliver escribi?: > I understand that the keys in a dictionary are ordered not randomly but > something practically close to it, but if I create a SQL query like so: > > query = 'INSERT INTO Batting (%s) VALUES(%s)' % (','.join(stats.keys()), > ','.join(stats.values())) > > Can I at least rely on the value being in the same index as its > corresponding key? You already got the answer you wanted, but note that building a SQL statement that way is unsafe [1]. I prefer this way: query= 'INSERT INTO Batting (%s) VALUES(%s)' % ( ','.join(stats.keys()), ','.join(['?']*len(stats))) cursor.execute(query, stats.values()) [1] If you don't know what "SQL injection" means, see http://xkcd.com/327/ -- Gabriel Genellina From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar Mon Aug 3 21:39:50 2009 From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 22:39:50 -0300 Subject: Is python buffer overflow proof? References: Message-ID: En Mon, 03 Aug 2009 18:04:53 -0300, sturlamolden escribi?: > On 2 Aug, 15:50, Jizzai wrote: > >> Is a _pure_ python program buffer overflow proof? >> >> For example in C++ you can declare a char[9] to hold user input. >> If the user inputs 10+ chars a buffer overflow occurs. > > Short answer: NO > > Bounds checking on sequence types is a protection against buffer > overflow, but is certainly not sufficient. > > The Python interpreter is written in C. Python extension modules are > written in C (or something similar). If you find an unprotected buffer > in this C code, you can possibly overflow this buffer. This can be > used for nasty things like corrupting the stack and injecting > malicious code. There is a reason why the Python sandbox (rexec and > Bastion modules) was disabled in Python 2.3. (I think the reason rexec and bastion were disabled has nothing to do with the possibility of buffer overflows in extension modules) > IronPython and Jython provides better protection against buffer > overflow than CPython, as these interpreters are written in safer > languages (C# and Java). You thus get an extra layer of protection > between the Python code and the unsafe C (used in JVM and .NET > runtimes). I disagree. You've just translated the responsability to check for buffer overflows, from the Python VM, to the Java VM or the .Net runtime (and all three suffered from buffer overruns and other problems in some way or another). Also, Python extensions written in C are equivalent to using JNI in Java or unmanaged code in C#: all three are likely to have hidden problems. It's always the same story: a *language* may declare that such things are impossible, but a particular *implementation* may have bugs and fail to comply with the specification. -- Gabriel Genellina From cocobear.cn at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 21:44:49 2009 From: cocobear.cn at gmail.com (cocobear) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 18:44:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: merge two png pic References: Message-ID: <006617e3-6630-4f04-bff1-99c58dbb6cb5@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com> On Jul 31, 2:52?pm, Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote: > cocobear wrote: > > On Jul 29, 9:20 am, cocobear wrote: > >> Thistwopngfile has their own palette > > >> >>> im1.mode > >> 'P' > >> >>> im.mode > >> 'P' > >> >>> im.getpalette == im1.getpalette > > >> False > > >> I can use this code tomergetwopngpictogether: > > >> Map = Image.new("RGB", (x,y)) > >> Map.paste(im, box) > >> Map.paste(im1,box) > > >> Map = Map.convert("L", optimize=True, palette=Image.ADAPTIVE) > > >> But if thetwopngpicis too big , or if I have tomergemorepic > >> together, I will get MemoryError: > > >> >>> Image.new("RGB",(44544,38656)) > > As a workaround you could split the image into tiles that fit into your > machine's RAM. Or you could try to do the rendering on a 64-bit system. > You'll need at least > > >>> 3*44544*38656./(2**30) > > 4.8109130859375 > > 5 gigabytes for the target image plus memory for the biggest source image. > Alternatively there are probably tools that can keep parts of the image on > disk (imagemagick, maybe? you'll have to check yourself or ask in a > specialized forum). As a last resort you should be able to write such a tool > yourself. I don't know how hard it would be to generate the PNG, but the RGB > pasting should be trivial. > Thanks for you reply. Map = Image.new("RGB", ((x2-x1+1)*256, (y2-y1+1)*256)) for x in range(x1,x2+1): for y in range(y1,y2+1): #print x,y filename = "v=cn1.11&hl=zh-CN&x=%d&y=%d&z=%d&s=Galile" % (x,y,z) # box = ((x-x1)*256, (y-y1)*256, (x-x1)*256+256, (y-y1) *256+256) #print box im = Image.open(filename+".png") Map.paste(im, box) temp = "temp_map.png" Map.save(temp) del Map print "converting" Map = Image.open(temp) Map = Map.convert("P", palette=Image.ADAPTIVE) Now I use code above, the problem is when I create a RGB image, I need four times spaces then a 'P' mode image. Can I directly create a 'P' mode image, and paste those images on? (NOTICE: this small image has different palette) > >> Traceback (most recent call last): > >> File "", line 1, in > >> File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/PIL/Image.py", line 1710, in > >> new > >> return Image()._new(core.fill(mode, size, color)) > >> MemoryError > > >> How can I directlymergetwopicto a ?P' modepngwith palette. > > > Nobody replied. > > What do you want to do with such a big image? You will run into the same > limitation when you are trying to display it. > I want to download a map from google map with high precision > Peter From afriere at yahoo.co.uk Mon Aug 3 21:53:02 2009 From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 18:53:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Announcing PythonTurtle References: <729a6652-cdfa-49b8-8013-6d7861b8020e@d4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <1d144bd0-8829-4449-8935-60bf6f66a5d6@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com> On Aug 4, 6:35?am, r wrote: [snip] > > I can remember the first time i used turtle (in python stdlib) and i > kept saying to myself... > > ? ? "Were the heck is this damn turtle?!?!" (>_<) > > :-) In Python2.6, try this: >>> turtle.shape('turtle') From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu Mon Aug 3 22:15:03 2009 From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 22:15:03 -0400 Subject: [OT] Re: Ordering of dict keys & values In-Reply-To: References: <3f1a902d0908031347g6e5dbbb7v832b0abc924a020@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 9:18 PM, Gabriel Genellina wrote: > > [1] If you don't know what "SQL injection" means, see http://xkcd.com/327/ I love how XKCD is one of the preferred learning tools (along with Wikipeida) for people on this list. I think Randall Munroe should make a comic about it. :) From justin.mailinglists at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 22:32:22 2009 From: justin.mailinglists at gmail.com (Justin Ezequiel) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 19:32:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Extracting text from html References: Message-ID: <44201d0e-87fe-457e-a7e2-26b2c5027d76@b25g2000prb.googlegroups.com> http://tinyurl.com/kpoweq From fft1976 at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 22:51:36 2009 From: fft1976 at gmail.com (fft1976) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 19:51:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: RUBY vs COMMON LISP References: <389503e4-eb6a-48c2-af76-cebe1dc7141c@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com> <87my6ic1k5.fsf@galatea.local> <1a40c8fe-83e4-4c50-90e2-b72ef86a6ac4@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com> <87hbwp9umw.fsf@galatea.local> Message-ID: <04aef600-150d-44fa-a0cd-d88a4b17e836@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com> On Aug 3, 1:19?am, p... at informatimago.com (Pascal J. Bourguignon) wrote: > fft1976 writes: > > By the way, here is in 1 line of BF, a complete BF reader that is able > > to > > read all the BF syntax needed to write it: > > > ,+[-.,+] > > > Here's how to try it: > > > $ sudo apt-get install bf > > $ cat > reader.bf > > ,+[-.,+] > > $ bf reader.bf < reader.bf > > > Your 150 lines don't look very impressive now, do they? > > > Ruby < Lisp <<< BF! > > I specified a syntactic reader. ?Not just a reader. It is a syntactic reader. BF's syntax is just a sequence of characters. If you throw in illegal characters, the behavior is "undefined". Lisp's syntax is more complicated: it's a tree of identifiers (in its idealized form; of course, Common Lisp had to fuck it up). Ruby's and Python's syntaxes are even more complicated. The above was to illustrate the wrongness of your argument that the length of a self-parser determines the usefulness of the language. Hell, I know that BF can be a little *too* awesome. By the way, Python's syntax is much better than Ruby's. Dollar signs in front of variables? WTF were the designers smoking? That's like Perl! Haven't you learned your lesson? Python's syntax might even be better than Lisp's, but it's certainly harder to parse. From pavlovevidence at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 23:00:08 2009 From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 20:00:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Seeding the rand() Generator References: Message-ID: <0b7c702f-5775-418e-8fc5-2f9df7487867@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> On Aug 3, 8:12?pm, Fred Atkinson wrote: > On Sun, 2 Aug 2009 17:00:40 -0700 (PDT), Carl Banks > > wrote: > > ? ? ? ? I appreciate the response. ? > > ? ? ? ? I am executing a statement to retrieve one record at random. ? > > ? ? ? ? An example would be: SELECT first, second, third, fourth, > fifth, sixth from sometable order by rand() limit 1 > > ? ? ? ? It would be contained as: stmt = "SELECT first, second, third, > fourth, fifth, sixth from sometable order by rand() limit 1" > > ? ? ? ? Then I would execute it with the command: cursor.execute(stmt) > > ? ? ? ? How would I correctly seed the random generator in the MySQL > statement from within Python? ? You apparently know how to run MySQL statements from Python, correct? You also apparently know how to run a particular MySQL statement from PHP that seeds the random number generator, correct? Given those two apparent facts, you should be able run whatever statement you ran in PHP to seed the RNG in Python. So I don't see what the problem is. Your question is a MySQL question, not a Python question. I don't know off hand how to seed the RNG in MySQL, and, since this is a Python group and not a MySQL group, I don't care to look it up. But if you were able to produce the MySQL statement in PHP that does it you shouldn't need to ask. If you don't "get" why this is a MySQL question and not a Python question, then you need to learn more about what you are doing. Carl Banks From davea at ieee.org Mon Aug 3 23:00:13 2009 From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 23:00:13 -0400 Subject: Newbie Question regarding __init__() In-Reply-To: <01bcf8b8-687c-4bf4-acbb-b059a480d382@f33g2000vbm.googlegroups.com> References: <6ccf5dbe-4b71-4159-88bb-c6a14aa785a9@k26g2000vbp.googlegroups.com> <01bcf8b8-687c-4bf4-acbb-b059a480d382@f33g2000vbm.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <4A77A43D.4000709@ieee.org> Simon wrote: > On Aug 2, 5:51 am, Dave Angel wrote: > >> >> I don't understand your comparison to Foxpro. read on. >> >> As your code was last posted, you don't need a return value from >> init_Exec() Every function that doesn't have an explicit return will >> return None. And None is interpreted as False in an "and" expression. >> If you had an "if" around the whole thing, then you'd care. >> >> DaveA >> > > All I meant by the FoxPro comment was the idea of using the equal sign > without a variable to throw away the result. Also in FoxPro there is > no such thing as automatically returning None. If there is no > explicit return then True is returned. > > Thanks I did not know that None is interpreted as False. > > Simon > > > To throw away the result of an expression in Python is even easier. Just don't use it. func1() and func2() is a valid expression whose result is not used. And func2()'s result is therefore irrelevant. But shortcircuiting means that func2() is only called if func1() returned False (or something equivalent to it, like 0 or an empty list) From pavlovevidence at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 23:02:26 2009 From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 20:02:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: RUBY vs COMMON LISP References: <389503e4-eb6a-48c2-af76-cebe1dc7141c@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com> <87my6ic1k5.fsf@galatea.local> <1a40c8fe-83e4-4c50-90e2-b72ef86a6ac4@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com> <87hbwp9umw.fsf@galatea.local> <04aef600-150d-44fa-a0cd-d88a4b17e836@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <3755ae21-b7b0-4f82-99d4-1095ec953c39@s6g2000vbp.googlegroups.com> On Aug 3, 7:51?pm, fft1976 wrote: > On Aug 3, 1:19?am, p... at informatimago.com (Pascal J. Bourguignon) > wrote: > > > > > > > fft1976 writes: > > > By the way, here is in 1 line of BF, a complete BF reader that is able > > > to > > > read all the BF syntax needed to write it: > > > > ,+[-.,+] > > > > Here's how to try it: > > > > $ sudo apt-get install bf > > > $ cat > reader.bf > > > ,+[-.,+] > > > $ bf reader.bf < reader.bf > > > > Your 150 lines don't look very impressive now, do they? > > > > Ruby < Lisp <<< BF! > > > I specified a syntactic reader. ?Not just a reader. > > It is a syntactic reader. BF's syntax is just a sequence of > characters. If you throw in illegal characters, the behavior is > "undefined". Lisp's syntax is more complicated: it's a tree of > identifiers (in its idealized form; of course, Common Lisp had to fuck > it up). Ruby's and Python's syntaxes are even more complicated. > > The above was to illustrate the wrongness of your argument that the > length of a self-parser determines the usefulness of the language. > Hell, I know that BF can be a little *too* awesome. > > By the way, Python's syntax is much better than Ruby's. Dollar signs > in front of variables? WTF were the designers smoking? That's like > Perl! Haven't you learned your lesson? > > Python's syntax might even be better than Lisp's, but it's certainly > harder to parse.- Hide quoted text - Go away, troll. [This is cross-posted; I recommend that no one else follow up.] Carl Banks From fft1976 at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 23:06:58 2009 From: fft1976 at gmail.com (fft1976) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 20:06:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: RUBY vs COMMON LISP References: <389503e4-eb6a-48c2-af76-cebe1dc7141c@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com> <87my6ic1k5.fsf@galatea.local> <1a40c8fe-83e4-4c50-90e2-b72ef86a6ac4@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com> <87hbwp9umw.fsf@galatea.local> <04aef600-150d-44fa-a0cd-d88a4b17e836@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com> <3755ae21-b7b0-4f82-99d4-1095ec953c39@s6g2000vbp.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: On Aug 3, 8:02?pm, Carl Banks wrote: > On Aug 3, 7:51?pm, fft1976 wrote: > > > > > On Aug 3, 1:19?am, p... at informatimago.com (Pascal J. Bourguignon) > > wrote: > > > > fft1976 writes: > > > > By the way, here is in 1 line of BF, a complete BF reader that is able > > > > to > > > > read all the BF syntax needed to write it: > > > > > ,+[-.,+] > > > > > Here's how to try it: > > > > > $ sudo apt-get install bf > > > > $ cat > reader.bf > > > > ,+[-.,+] > > > > $ bf reader.bf < reader.bf > > > > > Your 150 lines don't look very impressive now, do they? > > > > > Ruby < Lisp <<< BF! > > > > I specified a syntactic reader. ?Not just a reader. > > > It is a syntactic reader. BF's syntax is just a sequence of > > characters. If you throw in illegal characters, the behavior is > > "undefined". Lisp's syntax is more complicated: it's a tree of > > identifiers (in its idealized form; of course, Common Lisp had to fuck > > it up). Ruby's and Python's syntaxes are even more complicated. > > > The above was to illustrate the wrongness of your argument that the > > length of a self-parser determines the usefulness of the language. > > Hell, I know that BF can be a little *too* awesome. > > > By the way, Python's syntax is much better than Ruby's. Dollar signs > > in front of variables? WTF were the designers smoking? That's like > > Perl! Haven't you learned your lesson? > > > Python's syntax might even be better than Lisp's, but it's certainly > > harder to parse.- Hide quoted text - > > Go away, troll. > > [This is cross-posted; I recommend that no one else follow up.] > > Carl Banks Lispers were having fun badmouthing other languages for no good reason: """ Don't you realize how ugly Ruby syntax is? Here is in 150 lines of lisp, a simplified lisp reader that is able to read all the lisp syntax needed to write it. Try to parse Ruby syntax in Ruby and see how useless a language it is. """ http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/52dde974d504ad54 Of course you don't like it when I point out just how wrong you are. From fatkinson at mishmash.com Mon Aug 3 23:12:49 2009 From: fatkinson at mishmash.com (Fred Atkinson) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 20:12:49 -0700 Subject: Seeding the rand() Generator References: Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Aug 2009 17:00:40 -0700 (PDT), Carl Banks wrote: I appreciate the response. I am executing a statement to retrieve one record at random. An example would be: SELECT first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth from sometable order by rand() limit 1 It would be contained as: stmt = "SELECT first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth from sometable order by rand() limit 1" Then I would execute it with the command: cursor.execute(stmt) How would I correctly seed the random generator in the MySQL statement from within Python? Regards, Fred From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au Mon Aug 3 23:23:20 2009 From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano) Date: 04 Aug 2009 03:23:20 GMT Subject: no-clobber dicts? References: Message-ID: On Mon, 03 Aug 2009 21:07:32 +0000, kj wrote: > I use the term "no-clobber dict" to refer to a dictionary D with the > especial property that if K is in D, then > > D[K] = V > > will raise an exception unless V == D[K]. In other words, D[K] can be > set if K doesn't exist already among D's keys, or if the assigned value > is equal to the current value of D[K]. All other assignments to D[K] > trigger an exception. Coincidentally, I just built something very close to what you ask. Here it is: class ConstantNamespace(dict): """Dictionary with write-once keys.""" def __delitem__(self, key): raise TypeError("can't unbind constants") def __setitem__(self, key, value): if key in self: raise TypeError("can't rebind constants") super(ConstantNamespace, self).__setitem__(key, value) def clear(self): raise TypeError('cannot unbind constants') def pop(self, key, *args): raise TypeError("cannot pop constants") def popitem(self): raise TypeError("cannot pop constants") def update(self, other): for key in other: if key in self: raise TypeError('cannot update constants') # If we get here, then we're not modifying anything, # so okay to proceed. super(ConstantNamespace, self).update(other) def copy(self): c = self.__class__(**self) return c I also have a series of unit tests for it if you're interested in them. -- Steven From davea at ieee.org Mon Aug 3 23:23:38 2009 From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 23:23:38 -0400 Subject: file comparison In-Reply-To: <29a34bc20908031748j11280ab0mb4303da4156db54b@mail.gmail.com> References: <29a34bc20907310225n50b35fe2m322872af2058a465@mail.gmail.com> <200907311247.30793.hendrik@microcorp.co.za> <4A72E9BF.3080808@ieee.org> <29a34bc20908031748j11280ab0mb4303da4156db54b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A77A9BA.4090104@ieee.org> learner learner wrote: > Firstly thanks for showing the interest. I shall elobarate more on the > problem: > > file-1.txt > -------------- > hai > how > r > u > > file-2.txt > --------------- > r > hai > u > > > The two files have some lines in common. > > For eg: File-1.txt-first line-"hai" does not match with File-2.txt-first > line-"r" but surely matches with File-2.txt -second > > line -"hai". On having an iterative search the file-1.txt should finally be > left out with mismatched string "how", which is > > to be dumped into a third file say file3.txt or rewritten to > file-1.txt/file-2.txt with this single word "how" in line 1. > > some facts to remember: > ------------------------ > > the srings in the files will be same including case sentiveness if at all > present, else will be pronounced as a mismatch. > > this is bascically an iterative string search amongst the files and > isolating the mismatched strings into a text file > > (By replying off-list, you are ignoring the intent of public mailing lists. So I'm copying your message to the list, along with my response.) As I said before: If the text files are each a list of items, with order and duplication irrelevant, then your best bet is probably to build a set from each, and difference the sets. Sets are case-sensitive, and your example above indicates that order is at least partially irrelevant to you. So read each file, converting the lines into a set. Then do a set difference of those two sets. Then build a list from the result, and write that to a file. If it doesn't work, post the code you tried, along with sample data and expected output for that sample data. DaveA From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au Mon Aug 3 23:30:35 2009 From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano) Date: 04 Aug 2009 03:30:35 GMT Subject: Generate a new object each time a name is imported References: <02853264$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 03 Aug 2009 16:38:43 +0200, Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote: > So what's the purpose of making > >>from Module import factory as a >>from Module import factory as b > > return 2 different objects ? If I had to write this code I would expect > 'a is b' to return 'True'. > > This is no "don't do that" answer, it's a sincere question: what is the > benefit of your /new/ syntax ? Consider it "properties for modules": a = obj.factory b = obj.factory doesn't promise that a is b, because factory might be a property that returns a new object each time. Actually, this behaviour pre-dates properties. If obj has a __getattr__ or __getattribute__ method, then it could do the same thing. -- Steven From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au Mon Aug 3 23:44:54 2009 From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano) Date: 04 Aug 2009 03:44:54 GMT Subject: Is python buffer overflow proof? References: Message-ID: On Mon, 03 Aug 2009 14:04:53 -0700, sturlamolden wrote: > On 2 Aug, 15:50, Jizzai wrote: > >> Is a _pure_ python program buffer overflow proof? >> >> For example in C++ you can declare a char[9] to hold user input. If the >> user inputs 10+ chars a buffer overflow occurs. > > Short answer: NO > > Bounds checking on sequence types is a protection against buffer > overflow, but is certainly not sufficient. > > The Python interpreter is written in C. Python extension modules are > written in C (or something similar). If you find an unprotected buffer > in this C code, you can possibly overflow this buffer. How are C extension modules "_pure_ python"? -- Steven From thangappan143 at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 23:45:47 2009 From: thangappan143 at gmail.com (Thangappan.M) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 09:15:47 +0530 Subject: Problem in installing PyGreSQL Message-ID: <7aa29e790908032045p3b52a633m8d0e366a0f648b@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, I want to access the database related stuffs in python.So I found the PyGreSQL module in net. Then I tried to download the module.But I am not able to download it. I am not a super user. I am using Linux debian machine Python version is 2.4.4 -- Regards, Thangappan.M -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au Tue Aug 4 00:06:15 2009 From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano) Date: 04 Aug 2009 04:06:15 GMT Subject: kw param question References: Message-ID: On Mon, 03 Aug 2009 19:59:23 +0000, kj wrote: > I want to write a decorator that, among other things, returns a function > that has one additional keyword parameter, say foo=None. > > When I try > > def my_decorator(f): > # blah, blah > def wrapper(*p, foo=None, **kw): > x = f(*p, **kw) > if (foo): > # blah, blah > else > # blah blah > return wrapper > > ...i get a syntax error where it says "foo=None". I get similar errors > with everything else I've tried. > > Is is possible to do this in Python? Have you tried this under Python 2.6 or 3.0? I've run into similar issues, because you can't have keyword-only arguments in Python 2.5 :( My solution was to create a decorator that faked them. The docstring is longer than the decorator itself. from functools import wraps def keywords(**defaults): """Return a decorator which decorates a function to accept keyword arguments. Python 2.5 and earlier don't allow keyword-only arguments for non-builtin functions. The obvious syntax: def func(x, *args, key=None, word='parrot'): is not permitted. As a work-around, write your function something like the following example: >>> @keywords(key=None, word='parrot') ... def func(x, y=0, *args, **kwargs): ... # Inside the function, we can guarantee that kwargs['key'] and ... # kwargs['word'] both exist, and no other keys. ... print "x=%s, y=%s, args=%s" % (x, y, args) ... if kwargs['key'] is None: msg = "kwargs['key'] is None" ... else: msg = "kwargs['key'] is something else" ... msg += " and kwargs['word'] is %r" % kwargs['word'] ... print msg ... When you call func, if you don't provide a keyword-only argument, the default will be substituted: >>> func(1, 2, 3, 4) x=1, y=2, args=(3, 4) kwargs['key'] is None and kwargs['word'] is 'parrot' >>> func(1) x=1, y=0, args=() kwargs['key'] is None and kwargs['word'] is 'parrot' Naturally you can provide your own values for keyword-only arguments: >>> func(1, 2, 3, word='spam') x=1, y=2, args=(3,) kwargs['key'] is None and kwargs['word'] is 'spam' >>> func(1, 2, 3, word='spam', key=len) x=1, y=2, args=(3,) kwargs['key'] is something else and kwargs['word'] is 'spam' If you pass an unexpected keyword argument, TypeError is raised: >>> #doctest:+IGNORE_EXCEPTION_DETAIL ... func(1, 2, 3, 4, keyword='something') Traceback (most recent call last): ... TypeError: ... """ def decorator(func): """Decorate func to allow keyword-only arguments.""" @wraps(func) def f(*args, **kwargs): for key in kwargs: if key not in defaults: raise TypeError( "'%s' is an invalid keyword argument for " \ "this function" % key ) d = defaults.copy() d.update(kwargs) return func(*args, **d) return f return decorator (Copy and pasted from working code, but I make no guarantee that it will have survived the process in working order!) -- Steven From rt8396 at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 00:08:52 2009 From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 21:08:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Announcing PythonTurtle References: <729a6652-cdfa-49b8-8013-6d7861b8020e@d4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> <1d144bd0-8829-4449-8935-60bf6f66a5d6@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <02ad1097-bf09-4980-8d1d-18cdbf50cb5a@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> On Aug 3, 8:53?pm, Asun Friere wrote: > On Aug 4, 6:35?am, r wrote: > > [snip] > > > > > I can remember the first time i used turtle (in python stdlib) and i > > kept saying to myself... > > > ? ? "Were the heck is this damn turtle?!?!" (>_<) > > > :-) > > In Python2.6, try this: > > > > >>> turtle.shape('turtle') Thanks Asun, now i don't have anything to complain about! :-# From koranthala at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 00:09:05 2009 From: koranthala at gmail.com (koranthala) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 21:09:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Which GUI framework to use? Message-ID: <43a2d0a9-7166-4f7c-9fb8-13a23980c1d7@y10g2000prf.googlegroups.com> Hi, I am creating a very minimal application (a networking app). I have written the application using Twisted. Now, I need to put a GUI wrapper on the application. The application needs a login screen and also it needs to be minimized to system tray. If I right click the image on system tray, I should be able to close it. It uses some legacy code, so the whole app is written in Python 2.4. Also, my company requires that I use permissive licenses (no GPL - MIT, BSD, LGPL etc ok) Which GUI framework is best for this? I tried using Tkinter, but it does not support minimize to system tray (or I couldnt find it). This is my first foray to GUI programming, so other issues that I am worried about - 1. GUI needs a loop, Twisted needs a loop. How can both go ahead without messing each other? Thank You very much K From jjposner at optimum.net Tue Aug 4 00:12:34 2009 From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 00:12:34 -0400 Subject: Announcing PythonTurtle In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A77B532.5020906@optimum.net> > ... I would also venture to say a key-map > of sorts that is available thru the help menu where one could push an > "Up" button, or a "rotate" button, and have the proper command > inserted in the prompt, and then have the command execute, may also > help make the connections here, a sort of *real* Visual Basic > programming -- sorry Microsoft :P > Along these lines, see my "ClixTur" application at www.jjposner.net. It's a point-and-click front end to the standard Python turtle module, implementing only a very small subset of the turtle commands. As you click, the "real turtle commands" appear in a transcript window. You can then save (and maybe edit) and replay the transcript. Ram, I like a lot of what you've done. Could you talk about your decision to embed the standard turtle module (which is implemented in Tkinter) in a wxPython application? -John From philip at semanchuk.com Tue Aug 4 00:34:10 2009 From: philip at semanchuk.com (Philip Semanchuk) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 00:34:10 -0400 Subject: Problem in installing PyGreSQL In-Reply-To: <7aa29e790908032045p3b52a633m8d0e366a0f648b@mail.gmail.com> References: <7aa29e790908032045p3b52a633m8d0e366a0f648b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B1B10B5-24D5-44D0-B16F-6308D8D8FAD2@semanchuk.com> On Aug 3, 2009, at 11:45 PM, Thangappan.M wrote: > Dear all, > > I want to access the database related stuffs in python.So I found the > PyGreSQL module in net. > Then I tried to download the module.But I am not able to download it. > > I am not a super user. > I am using Linux debian machine > Python version is 2.4.4 Hi Thangappan, If you want us to be able to help you, you'll need to give more information. For instance, why are you not able to download PyGreSQL? You might want to try psycopg2 which also gives you access to PostgreSQL from Python. You can download it from this site: http://initd.org/ Hope this helps Philip From http Tue Aug 4 00:34:15 2009 From: http (Paul Rubin) Date: 03 Aug 2009 21:34:15 -0700 Subject: Is python buffer overflow proof? References: Message-ID: <7x1vnsmc3c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Steven D'Aprano writes: > > The Python interpreter is written in C. Python extension modules are > > written in C (or something similar). If you find an unprotected buffer > > in this C code, you can possibly overflow this buffer. > > How are C extension modules "_pure_ python"? A lot of basic Python constructs (like numbers and dictionaries) are implemented as C extension modules. It is reasonable to consider "pure Python" to include the contents of the Python standard library. From david.lyon at preisshare.net Tue Aug 4 00:42:25 2009 From: david.lyon at preisshare.net (David Lyon) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 00:42:25 -0400 Subject: Problem in installing PyGreSQL In-Reply-To: <7aa29e790908032045p3b52a633m8d0e366a0f648b@mail.gmail.com> References: <7aa29e790908032045p3b52a633m8d0e366a0f648b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7f0b4d2b1d5bd3f3057ead3b029059b9@preisshare.net> On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 09:15:47 +0530, "Thangappan.M" wrote: > I want to access the database related stuffs in python.So I found the > PyGreSQL module in net. > Then I tried to download the module.But I am not able to download it. Did none of the links here work? http://www.pygresql.org/readme.html#where-to-get > I am not a super user. > I am using Linux debian machine > Python version is 2.4.4 Try building it from source. Otherwise try getting it from pypi http://pypi.python.org/pypi/PyGreSQL/ David From nagle at animats.com Tue Aug 4 01:06:06 2009 From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 22:06:06 -0700 Subject: Is python buffer overflow proof? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4a77c0d9$0$1584$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> Gabriel Genellina wrote: > En Mon, 03 Aug 2009 18:04:53 -0300, sturlamolden > escribi?: > >> On 2 Aug, 15:50, Jizzai wrote: >> >>> Is a _pure_ python program buffer overflow proof? >>> >>> For example in C++ you can declare a char[9] to hold user input. >>> If the user inputs 10+ chars a buffer overflow occurs. >> >> Short answer: NO > I disagree. You've just translated the responsability to check for > buffer overflows, from the Python VM, to the Java VM or the .Net runtime > (and all three suffered from buffer overruns and other problems in some > way or another). A more useful question is whether the standard libraries are being run through any of the commercial static checkers for possible buffer overflows. John Nagle From wuwei23 at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 01:33:33 2009 From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 22:33:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: no-clobber dicts? References: Message-ID: Steven D'Aprano wrote: > I also have a series of unit tests for it if you're interested in them. That's several times today that kj has asked a question and you've responded with ready-to-go code. If this was Stackoverflow, I'd accuse you of reputation-whoring... You _can_ just post your cool code without the double act, y'know! :) From david.lyon at preisshare.net Tue Aug 4 01:55:20 2009 From: david.lyon at preisshare.net (David Lyon) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 01:55:20 -0400 Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire =?UTF-8?Q?writers=3F?= In-Reply-To: <756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com> References: <09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com> <109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com> <756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com> Message-ID: It isn't totally about the writers... Peoples egos are also at stake - it seems. If "Fred X wrote Doc Y".. they don't want their name taken off.. So they generally speaking don't want the docs changed. If you talk too much about docs.. you can be told you're OT.. even in a thread about docs... On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:12:43 -0700, Kee Nethery wrote: > I too find the Python docs not very useful and it really slows down my > learning curve. > > I wonder if it would make sense to find good tech writers, get a > quotes, and get some professionally written documentation WITH LOTS OF > EXAMPLES added to the standard Python documentation tree. > > I'd chip in money for that task. I've certainly spent enough buying > Python books to where it would be very reasonable to chip in the cost > of one book towards this project. Get enough people ... could be a > great thing. > > Even though it is not the version I use, I would suggest that the > really detailed docs with lots of examples be written against the > latest python version. > > Just a thought. > > Kee Nethery From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au Tue Aug 4 02:09:52 2009 From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano) Date: 04 Aug 2009 06:09:52 GMT Subject: Is python buffer overflow proof? References: <7x1vnsmc3c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 03 Aug 2009 21:34:15 -0700, Paul Rubin wrote: > Steven D'Aprano writes: >> > The Python interpreter is written in C. Python extension modules are >> > written in C (or something similar). If you find an unprotected >> > buffer in this C code, you can possibly overflow this buffer. >> >> How are C extension modules "_pure_ python"? > > A lot of basic Python constructs (like numbers and dictionaries) are > implemented as C extension modules. It is reasonable to consider "pure > Python" to include the contents of the Python standard library. Well, yes, but we're not saying that Python is bug-free. There could be bugs in the Python VM for that matter. The point is that code you write yourself can rely on "pure Python" to be free of buffer-overflows (for some definition of "rely") rather than having to worry about managing memory yourself. If you do this: buffer = [0]*1024 buffer[:] = [1]*1025 you don't over-write some random piece of memory, the list object resizes to accommodate, or fails with an exception instead. No special action is needed to avoid buffer overflows. You can't make that claim about C extensions. It's interesting to contrast that with DoS vulnerabilities in pure Python code. Python won't stop you from trying to calculate a googolplex: googol = 10**100 googolplex = 10**googol and doing so will be a moderately effective denial of service against your Python application. If you're concerned with that, you need to code defensively in the Python layer. Protecting against time-consuming operations is not part of Python's design. -- Steven From wuwei23 at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 02:21:20 2009 From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 23:21:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers? References: <09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com> <109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com> <756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com> Message-ID: <95ea30c4-a5e5-458e-a8e4-4398c376e52d@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com> On Aug 4, 3:55?pm, David Lyon wrote: > It isn't totally about the writers... > Peoples egos are also at stake - it seems. Citation please. > If "Fred X wrote Doc Y".. they don't want their name taken off.. So > they generally speaking don't want the docs changed. Ditto. > If you talk too much about docs.. you can be told you're OT.. > even in a thread about docs... And again. All I've _ever_ seen (on this group at least) is the much repeated phrase "All patches to the docs are welcomed". If you'd like to cast aspersions on the characters of those doing the work over actually contributing yourself, you're certainly free to do so, just don't expect your claims to be taken seriously. Other people's refusal to do the work that _you_ consider to be necessary isn't "ego". From deets at nospam.web.de Tue Aug 4 02:48:31 2009 From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 08:48:31 +0200 Subject: Which GUI framework to use? In-Reply-To: <43a2d0a9-7166-4f7c-9fb8-13a23980c1d7@y10g2000prf.googlegroups.com> References: <43a2d0a9-7166-4f7c-9fb8-13a23980c1d7@y10g2000prf.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <7dq3tvF2d74reU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> koranthala schrieb: > Hi, > I am creating a very minimal application (a networking app). > I have written the application using Twisted. > Now, I need to put a GUI wrapper on the application. > The application needs a login screen and also it needs to be > minimized to system tray. If I right click the image on system tray, I > should be able to close it. > It uses some legacy code, so the whole app is written in Python > 2.4. Also, my company requires that I use permissive licenses (no GPL > - MIT, BSD, LGPL etc ok) Google this group. The discussions are abundant about this. Keep in mind that while Qt changed licenses to LGPL, PyQt didn't and thus you can't use it. > Which GUI framework is best for this? I tried using Tkinter, but it > does not support minimize to system tray (or I couldnt find it). > > This is my first foray to GUI programming, so other issues that I > am worried about - > 1. GUI needs a loop, Twisted needs a loop. How can both go ahead > without messing each other? Google is your friend here, too: http://twistedmatrix.com/projects/core/documentation/howto/choosing-reactor.html Diez From contact at xavierho.com Tue Aug 4 02:59:50 2009 From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 16:59:50 +1000 Subject: Seeding the rand() Generator In-Reply-To: References: <0b7c702f-5775-418e-8fc5-2f9df7487867@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <2d56febf0908032359k4d3abf63i97bb4883a75b2a15@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 5:48 PM, Fred Atkinson wrote: > I tried using the same command I used when I did this in PHP. > That command was: mt_srand(date("w")) > > It was a PHP command that seeds the MySQL random function, > according to the folks on the PHP newsgroup. Well, some people have suggested to use that inside Python. That would work, right? Although, if you're just trying to find the Python-equivalent, fair enough. Regards, Ching-Yun "Xavier" Ho, Technical Artist Contact Information Mobile: (+61) 04 3335 4748 Skype ID: SpaXe85 Email: contact at xavierho.com Website: http://xavierho.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From torppa at staff.megabaud.fi Tue Aug 4 03:12:30 2009 From: torppa at staff.megabaud.fi (Jarkko Torppa) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 07:12:30 GMT Subject: Seeding the rand() Generator References: <0b7c702f-5775-418e-8fc5-2f9df7487867@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: On 2009-08-04, Fred Atkinson wrote: > On Mon, 3 Aug 2009 20:00:08 -0700 (PDT), Carl Banks > wrote: >> >>If you don't "get" why this is a MySQL question and not a Python >>question, then you need to learn more about what you are doing. > > I wouldn't agree. > > I tried using the same command I used when I did this in PHP. > That command was: mt_srand(date("w")) > > It was a PHP command that seeds the MySQL random function, > according to the folks on the PHP newsgroup. It seems that they lied to you. Did you actually try that ? > I'm trying to figure out what the Python equivalent of that > is. Python equivalent of that is random.seed(x), if PHP docs are to be believed. > Now do you see? What you acutally want is "select *,rand(3) as rand from table order by rand" or something like that. That 3 is the seed in there. -- Jarkko Torppa From news123 at free.fr Tue Aug 4 03:24:57 2009 From: news123 at free.fr (News123) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 09:24:57 +0200 Subject: merge two png pic In-Reply-To: <006617e3-6630-4f04-bff1-99c58dbb6cb5@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com> References: <006617e3-6630-4f04-bff1-99c58dbb6cb5@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <4a77e249$0$2449$426a74cc@news.free.fr> Hi, cocobear wrote: >> > >> Map = Image.new("RGB", (x,y)) >> > >> Map.paste(im, box) >> > >> Map.paste(im1,box) > >> > >> Map = Map.convert("L", optimize=True, palette=Image.ADAPTIVE) > >> > >> But if thetwopngpicis too big , or if I have tomergemorepic >> > >> together, I will get MemoryError: > >>>>> > >> >>> Image.new("RGB",(44544,38656)) >> >> What do you want to do with such a big image? You will run into the same >> limitation when you are trying to display it. >> > > I want to download a map from google map with high precision > For me it sounds strange to handle such big files. Is the map you download from Google really that big? Mostly Google maps uses normally tiles of sizes 256x256 pixel, wich you have to compose to get the big image. If your problem is to combine tiles with different palettes, then you should pobably look at a way to 'unify' the palette of all tiles befor combining them. Being no expert of PIL I don't know whether this is easily possible though? bye N From contact at xavierho.com Tue Aug 4 03:31:29 2009 From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 17:31:29 +1000 Subject: merge two png pic In-Reply-To: <4a77e249$0$2449$426a74cc@news.free.fr> References: <006617e3-6630-4f04-bff1-99c58dbb6cb5@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com> <4a77e249$0$2449$426a74cc@news.free.fr> Message-ID: <2d56febf0908040031j2aabe2f8xa5c69be943030783@mail.gmail.com> Strange, I did reply but you didn't see it? >>>>> > >> >>> Image.new("RGB",(44544,38656)) > >> > >> What do you want to do with such a big image? You will run into the same > >> limitation when you are trying to display it. > >> > > > > I want to download a map from google map with high precision > Download several maps instead. Streaming if you have to. I'm not sure how you're going to avoid that MemoryError by trying to aggregate everything at once. Might have to make it a dynamic loader, and only load pictures as relevant (i.e: visible, and next to visible) Think how Google Maps do it. They can't possibly upload 5GB of pictures every time you access Maps - that wouldn't have worked. They work with the only visible areas. If you could tell us exactly what your program is trying to achieve, maybe we'll have a better solution for you. Best regards, Ching-Yun "Xavier" Ho, Technical Artist Contact Information Mobile: (+61) 04 3335 4748 Skype ID: SpaXe85 Email: contact at xavierho.com Website: http://xavierho.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lkrzysiak at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 03:33:49 2009 From: lkrzysiak at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?=C5=81ukasz?=) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 00:33:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Strange python script behaviour Message-ID: Hi, I have a problem with one of my python scripts. When I run this script from command line it works correctly, but if I set up cron to run this script on specified hour it works for a while and then "[Errno 32] Broken pipe" error occures (always). The strangest thing is that if I change command in CRON from python /home/xxx/script.py to python /home/xxx/script.py > /tmp/script.log 2>&1 the script always works correctly!!! The question is WHY? Any ideas? From electronixtar at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 03:38:27 2009 From: electronixtar at gmail.com (est) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 00:38:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: modify a exe's RT_ACCELERATOR table using pefile module Message-ID: Hi list, I need to modify a exe's RT_ACCELERATOR table, rename F1 to Ctrl+F1, and assign hotkey F1 to another function Is there a way to do it with pefile/python? A sample code is appreciated. Thanks! From ram.rachum at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 03:44:59 2009 From: ram.rachum at gmail.com (cool-RR) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 00:44:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Announcing PythonTurtle References: Message-ID: <9e3b0c86-3a2a-4bc4-91f3-1b01a05d6b86@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> On Aug 4, 7:12?am, John Posner wrote: > > ... I would also venture to say a key-map > > of sorts that is available thru the help menu where one could push an > > "Up" button, or a "rotate" button, and have the proper command > > inserted in the prompt, and then have the command execute, may also > > help make the connections here, a sort of *real* Visual Basic > > programming -- sorry Microsoft :P > > Along these lines, see my "ClixTur" application atwww.jjposner.net. > It's a point-and-click front end to the standard Python turtle module, > implementing only a very small subset of the turtle commands. As you > click, the "real turtle commands" appear in a transcript window. You can > then save (and maybe edit) and replay the transcript. > > Ram, I like a lot of what you've done. Could you talk about your > decision to embed the standard turtle module (which is implemented in > Tkinter) in a wxPython application? > > -John Certainly John- although I have not embedded the turtle module at all, I just wrote my own. This was actually quite a short process - What took the most time was developing the shell, which is a fork of PyShell. The original PyShell controls the same process it is run on, but my fork controls a different process (created by the multiprocessing package.) That took a lot of time. I actually created an independent package for it, called "shelltoprocess", which is a subfolder in PythonTurtle's source, so now anyone can use it for their own project. I am proud to say that this shell has some features that IDLE should envy. If you're asking WHY I put it in a wxPython application, the answer is pretty much what "r" said: To make it like any other "over the counter" Windows application, making people feel more comfortable with it. Also, not requiring them to install Python+packages, but just PythonTurtle. Ram. From fatkinson at mishmash.com Tue Aug 4 03:48:42 2009 From: fatkinson at mishmash.com (Fred Atkinson) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 00:48:42 -0700 Subject: Seeding the rand() Generator References: <0b7c702f-5775-418e-8fc5-2f9df7487867@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 3 Aug 2009 20:00:08 -0700 (PDT), Carl Banks wrote: >Your question is a MySQL question, not a Python question. I don't >know off hand how to seed the RNG in MySQL, and, since this is a >Python group and not a MySQL group, I don't care to look it up. But >if you were able to produce the MySQL statement in PHP that does it >you shouldn't need to ask. > >If you don't "get" why this is a MySQL question and not a Python >question, then you need to learn more about what you are doing. I wouldn't agree. I tried using the same command I used when I did this in PHP. That command was: mt_srand(date("w")) It was a PHP command that seeds the MySQL random function, according to the folks on the PHP newsgroup. I'm trying to figure out what the Python equivalent of that is. Now do you see? Fred From http Tue Aug 4 03:56:05 2009 From: http (Paul Rubin) Date: 04 Aug 2009 00:56:05 -0700 Subject: Is python buffer overflow proof? References: <7x1vnsmc3c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <7x4osoypuy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Steven D'Aprano writes: > The point is that code you write yourself can rely on "pure Python" to be > free of buffer-overflows (for some definition of "rely") rather than > having to worry about managing memory yourself. Right. Basically the Python interpreter protects you reasonably well from silly errors. The interpreter hasn't had anywhere near the level of hardening required to claim to protect you from diabolically clever malicious code running in the same interpreter as your sensitive application. The Rexec/Bastion modules were basically swiss cheese. From loic.domaigne at googlemail.com Tue Aug 4 04:02:04 2009 From: loic.domaigne at googlemail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lo=EFc_Domaign=E9?=) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 01:02:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Strange python script behaviour References: Message-ID: Hi, > I have a problem with one of my python scripts. When I run this script > from command line it works correctly, but if I set up cron to run this > script on specified hour it works for a while and then "[Errno 32] > Broken pipe" error occures (always). > > The strangest thing is that if I change command in CRON > > from > python /home/xxx/script.py > to > python /home/xxx/script.py ?> /tmp/script.log 2>&1 > > the script always works correctly!!! > > The question is WHY? Any ideas? This is a cron issue, and has little with python to do. By default, cron will email the output produced by your script, unless you redirect. It does so by pipe to a "mail" program. Your error seems to indicate a problem with the latter (perhaps you don't have any "mail" program installed). HTH, Lo?c -- My Blog: http://www.domaigne.com/blog "To err is human, but to really foul things up you need a computer." -- Paul Ehrlich From anthra.norell at bluewin.ch Tue Aug 4 04:02:31 2009 From: anthra.norell at bluewin.ch (Anthra Norell) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 10:02:31 +0200 Subject: Compiling regex inside function? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A77EB17.2050308@bluewin.ch> alex23 wrote: > Anthra Norell wrote: > >> def entries (l): >> r = re.compile ('([0-9]+) entr(y|ies)') >> match = r.search (l) >> if match: return match.group (1) >> >> So the question is: does "r" get regex-compiled once at py-compile time >> or repeatedly at entries() run time? >> > The docs say: > The compiled versions of the most recent patterns passed to re.match > (), re.search() or re.compile() are cached, so programs that use only > a few regular expressions at a time needn?t worry about compiling > regular expressions. > > (But they don't say how few is 'only a few'...) > > If you're concerned about it, you could always set the compiled > pattern to a default value in the function's argspec, as that _is_ > only executed the once: > > def entries(line, regex = re.compile('([0-9]+) entr(y|ies)'): > match = regex.search(line) > ... > Excellent idea! Thank you all for the tips. Frederic From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid Tue Aug 4 04:03:53 2009 From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 10:03:53 +0200 Subject: Confessions of a Python fanboy In-Reply-To: <008eef29$0$9756$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> References: <008e82e8$0$9756$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> <4a72d7cf$0$25239$426a34cc@news.free.fr> <008eef29$0$9756$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Message-ID: <4a77eb69$0$22600$426a74cc@news.free.fr> Steven D'Aprano a ?crit : > On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 13:38:56 +0200, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote: > >>> On the other hand, we don't have to prefix names with @ and @@, >> Nope, we have to prefix them with 'self' or 'cls' (or even >> 'self.__class__'). > > Incorrect. Correct for all relevant cases, except this one: >>>> class K: > ... class_attribute = 'No @@ required.' > ... >>>> K().class_attribute > 'No @@ required.' Once again: Ruby's attributes are *private*, so you can't access an attribute (class or instance) from outside a method. IOW, the above example is irrelevant. (snip) > Disadvantages: your code is filled with line noise. It's an arbitrary > choice between @@ meaning instance attribute and @@ meaning class > attribute -- there's no logical reason for choosing one over the other, > so you have to memorise which is which. It's easy to get it wrong. So far that's something I have no difficulty living with. >>> and we >>> don't have the compiler trying to *guess* whether we're calling a >>> function or referring to a variable. >> Please re-read a bit more carefully - it's *all* method call. > > What did I misread from here? Nowhere - it's me that got it wrong here, sorry. (snip) >>> Somebody who knows more Ruby than me should try writing the Zen of >>> Ruby. Something like: >> (snip childish parody of Python Zen) >> >> Steven, is that any useful ? > > It made me feel good. Why ??? You don't like Ruby ? Fine, don't use it. Period. I can't see the point of all these pissing contests. > But seriously, while I admit that I have very little Ruby experience, and > so aren't in a great position to judge, it seems to me that Ruby doesn't > have anything like Python's over-riding design principles (the Zen). If > there is a design principle to Ruby, I can't see what it is. Fullfill the tastes of Matz ?-) (snip) >>> Although I'm sure Ruby has its good points. I'm not convinced anonymous >>> code blocks are one of them though. >> Ruby's code blocks come from Smalltalk, where they are an absolute >> necessity since message passing (which code blocks are part of) is the >> *only* builtin control flow in Smalltalk - so you just *need* this >> construction to provide branching and iterations. > > Just because Smalltalk had a particular (mis?)feature You can drop the 'mis' part IMHO. The point of code blocks in Smalltalk is that once you have something as powerful as the message+code blocks combo, you just don't need any other 'special form' for control flow. > doesn't mean that > other languages should copy it. Nope. But OTHO, Python is famous for all the features it copied from other languages !-) From spam.buster at web.de Tue Aug 4 04:08:23 2009 From: spam.buster at web.de (Lars Behrens) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 10:08:23 +0200 Subject: Strange python script behaviour References: Message-ID: ?ukasz wrote: > The strangest thing is that if I change command in CRON > > from > python /home/xxx/script.py > to > python /home/xxx/script.py > /tmp/script.log 2>&1 > > the script always works correctly!!! > > The question is WHY? Any ideas? Seems to me that this is more of a shell thing... First of all, it is always a good idea to call applications with their full path from cronjobs: /usr/bin/python /home/xxx/script.py or whatever the output of your "which python" may be. How did you create the cronjob? Dependending on the editor you used, maybe there is a missing newline... -- Cheerz Lars From lkrzysiak at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 04:30:29 2009 From: lkrzysiak at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?=C5=81ukasz?=) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 01:30:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Strange python script behaviour References: Message-ID: <4cfffc2c-1923-4fc6-be0b-07ee4c4aae2b@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> On 4 Sie, 10:02, Lo?c Domaign? wrote: > Hi, > > > I have a problem with one of my python scripts. When I run this script > > from command line it works correctly, but if I set up cron to run this > > script on specified hour it works for a while and then "[Errno 32] > > Broken pipe" error occures (always). > > > The strangest thing is that if I change command in CRON > > > from > > python /home/xxx/script.py > > to > > python /home/xxx/script.py ?> /tmp/script.log 2>&1 > > > the script always works correctly!!! > > > The question is WHY? Any ideas? > > This is a cron issue, and has little with python to do. > > By default, cron will email the output produced by your script, unless > you redirect. It does so by pipe to a "mail" program. Your error seems > to indicate a problem with the latter (perhaps you don't have any > "mail" program installed). > Hmm... interesting, but logical explanation. Cron has its weird issues. I guess I have to redirect outputs of all my scripts to /dev/ null in order to prevent them from this kind of error. Thanks for help :) From lkrzysiak at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 04:33:17 2009 From: lkrzysiak at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?=C5=81ukasz?=) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 01:33:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Strange python script behaviour References: Message-ID: <7e430558-f029-450e-bb06-2b273a7a2fe1@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> On 4 Sie, 10:08, Lars Behrens wrote: > ?ukasz wrote: > > The strangest thing is that if I change command in CRON > > > from > > python /home/xxx/script.py > > to > > python /home/xxx/script.py ?> /tmp/script.log 2>&1 > > > the script always works correctly!!! > > > The question is WHY? Any ideas? > > Seems to me that this is more of a shell thing... > > First of all, it is always a good idea to call applications with their full > path from cronjobs: > > /usr/bin/python /home/xxx/script.py or whatever the output of your "which > python" may be. > > How did you create the cronjob? Dependending on the editor you used, maybe > there is a missing newline... > No, I've just simplified cron entries to not mess the example :) The key thing was redirecting stdin & stderr to file. But thanks anyway... :) From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar Tue Aug 4 04:48:15 2009 From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 05:48:15 -0300 Subject: Is python buffer overflow proof? References: <4a77c0d9$0$1584$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> Message-ID: En Tue, 04 Aug 2009 02:06:06 -0300, John Nagle escribi?: > Gabriel Genellina wrote: >> En Mon, 03 Aug 2009 18:04:53 -0300, sturlamolden >> escribi?: >> >>> On 2 Aug, 15:50, Jizzai wrote: >>> >>>> Is a _pure_ python program buffer overflow proof? >>>> For example in C++ you can declare a char[9] to hold user input. >>>> If the user inputs 10+ chars a buffer overflow occurs. > A more useful question is whether the standard libraries are being > run through any of the commercial static checkers for possible buffer > overflows. In the past the Python source code was checked with valgrind and some coverity tools; I don't know the current status. -- Gabriel Genellina From bartsmeets86 at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 04:52:20 2009 From: bartsmeets86 at gmail.com (Bart Smeets) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 10:52:20 +0200 Subject: easy_install: unresolved external symbol In-Reply-To: References: <2119ee90908031339o71e19624qa815241b446d739d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2119ee90908040152k5a744f98l7d5bc7da755948a2@mail.gmail.com> I could ofcourse use cxfreeze's binary package. But bbfreeze is not available as a binary. I would love to get easy_install to work. But I have no idea what's going wrong here. 2009/8/4 Gabriel Genellina > En Mon, 03 Aug 2009 17:39:44 -0300, Bart Smeets > escribi?: > > I keep getting errors when trying to use easy_install to install bbfreeze >> or >> cxfreeze (same errors). >> This is the output: >> http://pastebin.com/m65ba474d >> > > Can't you use the binary packages? > > -- > Gabriel Genellina > > -- > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From loic.domaigne at googlemail.com Tue Aug 4 05:11:21 2009 From: loic.domaigne at googlemail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lo=EFc_Domaign=E9?=) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 02:11:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Strange python script behaviour References: <4cfffc2c-1923-4fc6-be0b-07ee4c4aae2b@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <328af145-daaa-4239-bb42-dbf0a379540e@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> > > > I have a problem with one of my python scripts. When I run this script > > > from command line it works correctly, but if I set up cron to run this > > > script on specified hour it works for a while and then "[Errno 32] > > > Broken pipe" error occures (always). > > > > The strangest thing is that if I change command in CRON > > > > from > > > python /home/xxx/script.py > > > to > > > python /home/xxx/script.py ?> /tmp/script.log 2>&1 > > > > the script always works correctly!!! > > > > The question is WHY? Any ideas? > > > This is a cron issue, and has little with python to do. > > > By default, cron will email the output produced by your script, unless > > you redirect. It does so by pipe to a "mail" program. Your error seems > > to indicate a problem with the latter (perhaps you don't have any > > "mail" program installed). > > Hmm... interesting, but logical explanation. Cron has its weird > issues. I guess I have to redirect outputs of all my scripts to /dev/ > null in order to prevent them from this kind of error. You could also set the MAILTO variable to "". HTH, Lo?c -- My Blog: http://www.domaigne.com/blog "Hardware: The parts of a computer system that can be kicked." -- Jeff Pesis. From david.lyon at preisshare.net Tue Aug 4 05:12:07 2009 From: david.lyon at preisshare.net (David Lyon) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 05:12:07 -0400 Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?easy=5Finstall=3A=20unresolved=20external=20symbol?= In-Reply-To: <2119ee90908040152k5a744f98l7d5bc7da755948a2@mail.gmail.com> References: <2119ee90908031339o71e19624qa815241b446d739d@mail.gmail.com> <2119ee90908040152k5a744f98l7d5bc7da755948a2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <87f2eede5ce0f1391994db66153e3c96@preisshare.net> On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 10:52:20 +0200, Bart Smeets wrote: > I could ofcourse use cxfreeze's binary package. But bbfreeze is not > available as a binary. I would love to get easy_install to work. But I have > no idea what's going wrong here. What is going on is that setuptools does some very 'advanced' things. The best you can do is give the option to link to the ez_setup.py install script and let the users install it them themselves... David From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au Tue Aug 4 05:28:50 2009 From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano) Date: 04 Aug 2009 09:28:50 GMT Subject: Confessions of a Python fanboy References: <008e82e8$0$9756$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> <4a72d7cf$0$25239$426a34cc@news.free.fr> <008eef29$0$9756$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> <4a77eb69$0$22600$426a74cc@news.free.fr> Message-ID: On Tue, 04 Aug 2009 10:03:53 +0200, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote: >> Disadvantages: your code is filled with line noise. It's an arbitrary >> choice between @@ meaning instance attribute and @@ meaning class >> attribute -- there's no logical reason for choosing one over the other, >> so you have to memorise which is which. It's easy to get it wrong. > > So far that's something I have no difficulty living with. I don't like arbitrary symbols. Most people don't -- that's why "line noise" is unpopular. It's hard to read, hard to write, hard to maintain, and hard to talk about. The more line-noise, the worse the language. Of course, *ultimately* every symbol is arbitrary. There's no reason why "2" should mean the integer two, or "list" should mean a sequence type, but some symbols have such a long history, or have some other connection (say, with human languages), that the arbitrariness is lost. For instance, "+" is the obvious, non-arbitrary choice for the addition operator in any programming language using Latin symbols, and probably any programming language on Earth. (Not the *only* choice, but the obvious one.) I have a similar dislike for decorator syntax, because "@" ("at" in English) has nothing to do with decorations. It's an arbitrary symbol. One might argue that "$" would have been a more logical choice, because we turn numerals into currency by decorating it with a $ sign. (At least in the US, Canada, Australia, and a few other countries.) I use decorators all the time, and they are a fantastic invention, but the arbitrariness of the @ syntax is a negative. Oh well, one negative out of a whole lot of positives isn't too bad. At least I only have to deal with *one* such arbitrary symbol that needs memorizing. There's no need to distinguish between @@function_decorator and @class_decorator (or should it be the other way around?). Similarly, Python's choice of syntax for attributes is consistent: object.attribute works for everything, whether object is a class, an instance, a module, and whether attribute is callable or not. You can even use it on ints, provided you are clever about it: >>> 42 .__class__ >>>> Somebody who knows more Ruby than me should try writing the Zen of >>>> Ruby. Something like: >>> (snip childish parody of Python Zen) >>> >>> Steven, is that any useful ? >> >> It made me feel good. > > Why ??? > > You don't like Ruby ? Fine, don't use it. Period. I can't see the point > of all these pissing contests. Criticism of a language is a pissing contest? Yeah, okay, I was a tad dismissive. I un-apologetically jump to strong impressions about languages based on minimal use -- but I'm also willing to change my mind. Ruby certainly looks to me like it has some nice features. Syntax that looks like Perl isn't one of them though. >> Just because Smalltalk had a particular (mis?)feature > > You can drop the 'mis' part IMHO. The point of code blocks in Smalltalk > is that once you have something as powerful as the message+code blocks > combo, you just don't need any other 'special form' for control flow. Well, maybe, but remember, programming languages are only partly for communication to the compiler. They also have the requirement to communicate with human programmers as well, and that's even more important, because (1) humans spent a lot more time working with code than compilers do; (2) human programmers charge much more money than compilers do; (3) and you can modify the compiler to suit human needs much more easily than you can modify programmers to suit the compiler's needs. So I'd ask, does Smalltalk's message passing model match the way human beings think? If not, then that's a good sign it might be a misfeature. >> doesn't mean that >> other languages should copy it. > > Nope. But OTHO, Python is famous for all the features it copied from > other languages !-) Absolutely! There's nothing wrong with copying *good* features :) -- Steven From gregor.lingl at aon.at Tue Aug 4 05:30:23 2009 From: gregor.lingl at aon.at (Gregor Lingl) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 11:30:23 +0200 Subject: ANN: Python's turtle module: collection of examples + demoViewer Message-ID: <4a77ffb2$0$1552$91cee783@newsreader04.highway.telekom.at> Hi all, A few days ago I've created a repository of turtle graphics demos/applications, that use Python's new turtle module. You can find it at at google code: http://python-turtle-demo.googlecode.com There are two versions of the collection: one for use with Python 3.1 and one for use with Python 2.5 / 2.6. The latter contains a *** backport of version 1.1 of the turtle module *** *** (from Python 3.1) to Python 2.5 / 2.6 *** Among others it contains all the examples I have demonstrated at Pycon 2009 and at EuroPython 2009. Moreover it contains the demoViewer (which is also in the source distribution of CPython) that lets you select the examples via a menu, display their source code and execute them in parallel. If you are interested to amend some of these examples, add some explanatory material or contribute additional examples, please tell me so I could add you as a committer to the project. I'd be glad to expand the repository whith interesting examples and applications using the turtle module. If you have questions concerning the examples, feel free to ask here or ask me directly via my email-address. I hope this collection will prove to be useful. Best regards, Gregor P.S.: I tried to announce it at comp.lang.python.announce but for some unknown reason it was not accepted there From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid Tue Aug 4 06:01:06 2009 From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 12:01:06 +0200 Subject: Confessions of a Python fanboy In-Reply-To: References: <008e82e8$0$9756$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> <4a72d7cf$0$25239$426a34cc@news.free.fr> <008eef29$0$9756$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> <4a77eb69$0$22600$426a74cc@news.free.fr> Message-ID: <4a7806e2$0$438$426a34cc@news.free.fr> Steven D'Aprano a ?crit : > On Tue, 04 Aug 2009 10:03:53 +0200, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote: > >>> Disadvantages: your code is filled with line noise. It's an arbitrary >>> choice between @@ meaning instance attribute and @@ meaning class >>> attribute -- there's no logical reason for choosing one over the other, >>> so you have to memorise which is which. It's easy to get it wrong. >> So far that's something I have no difficulty living with. > > I don't like arbitrary symbols. Neither do I - when there are too many at least. But I can certainly live with a couple ones. Now the point wasn't about my personal tastes, but about the fact that this particular pair of "arbitrary symbols" was IMHO still usable - IOW, I wouldn't dismiss Ruby on this sole point. > Most people don't -- that's why "line > noise" is unpopular. It's hard to read, hard to write, hard to maintain, > and hard to talk about. The more line-noise, the worse the language. OTHO, too much verbosity is a pain too. Ever programmed in AppleScript ? "set the attribute XXX of object YYY of collection ZZZ to SomeValue"... Yuck. I bet you prefer "zzz[yyy].xxx = SomeValue" - which uses three arbitrary symbols. (snip) > Oh well, one negative out of > a whole lot of positives isn't too bad. Indeed. You could perhaps learn a bit more about Ruby's positives if you don't block on what you perceive (rightfully or not) as negative points ?-) (snip) >>>>> Somebody who knows more Ruby than me should try writing the Zen of >>>>> Ruby. Something like: >>>> (snip childish parody of Python Zen) >>>> >>>> Steven, is that any useful ? >>> It made me feel good. >> Why ??? >> >> You don't like Ruby ? Fine, don't use it. Period. I can't see the point >> of all these pissing contests. > > Criticism of a language is a pissing contest? Not necessarily. But: > Yeah, okay, I was a tad dismissive. I un-apologetically jump to strong > impressions about languages based on minimal use Possibly, yes. > -- but I'm also willing > to change my mind. Ruby certainly looks to me like it has some nice > features. Syntax that looks like Perl isn't one of them though. Not my cup of tea neither FWIW. But Ruby is nowhere near Perl in terms of "line noise". > >>> Just because Smalltalk had a particular (mis?)feature >> You can drop the 'mis' part IMHO. The point of code blocks in Smalltalk >> is that once you have something as powerful as the message+code blocks >> combo, you just don't need any other 'special form' for control flow. > > Well, maybe, but remember, programming languages are only partly for > communication to the compiler. They also have the requirement to > communicate with human programmers as well, and that's even more > important, because > > (1) humans spent a lot more time working with code than compilers do; > > (2) human programmers charge much more money than compilers do; > > (3) and you can modify the compiler to suit human needs much more easily > than you can modify programmers to suit the compiler's needs. > > So I'd ask, does Smalltalk's message passing model match the way human > beings think? Does all human beings think the same way ? And aren't human beings able to learn new ways ? Smalltalk's only control flow construct might seem a bit weird at first when all you've been exposed to so far are more "traditional" special constructs, but it's not hard to learn and is way more uniform and flexible than having special constructs for each and any possible situation. One could ask if functional programming or OO "matches the way human beings think". From experience, some of us just find FP and / or OO just obvious, and some won't never get it. FWIW, there are quite a few features and idioms in Python that I _now_ find readable and obvious, but that would have puzzled me ten years ago. This reminds me of a shop where the CTO had forbidden using any OO feature of the main language used there because "nobody would understand it" (needless to say, I only stayed there a couple weeks...). > >>> doesn't mean that >>> other languages should copy it. >> Nope. But OTHO, Python is famous for all the features it copied from >> other languages !-) > > Absolutely! There's nothing wrong with copying *good* features :) Well... at least when they make sense and integrate smoothly into the target language. From masklinn at masklinn.net Tue Aug 4 06:15:19 2009 From: masklinn at masklinn.net (Masklinn) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 12:15:19 +0200 Subject: Help understanding the decisions *behind* python? In-Reply-To: <4a7715ff$0$1641$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> References: <988a5f49-7907-4351-bfd0-7bb05e821795@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> <4a7715ff$0$1641$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> Message-ID: <80C5CBFA-5547-4675-B60E-033C5C60DEDB@masklinn.net> On 3 Aug 2009, at 18:57 , John Nagle wrote: > Dave Angel wrote: >> sturlamolden wrote: >>> On 20 Jul, 18:27, Phillip B Oldham wrote: >>> Tuples are used for passing arguments to and from a function. Common >>> use of tuples include multiple return values and optional arguments >>> (*args). > > That's from Mesa, the Xerox PARC language of the 1970s. > > Mesa used tuples for subroutine arguments in a very straightforward > way. Every function took one tuple as an argument, written as > parameters > in parentheses separated by commas. Most statically typed functional languages seem to do pretty much the same: uncurried functions really take a tuple as single argument rather than multiple arguments, using pattern matching to make it look like multiple arguments. Then again, most of them seem to default to curried functions these days, which is nice. From masklinn at masklinn.net Tue Aug 4 06:21:01 2009 From: masklinn at masklinn.net (Masklinn) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 12:21:01 +0200 Subject: Confessions of a Python fanboy In-Reply-To: References: <008e82e8$0$9756$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> <4a72d7cf$0$25239$426a34cc@news.free.fr> <008eef29$0$9756$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> <4a77eb69$0$22600$426a74cc@news.free.fr> Message-ID: <6FE460F1-7484-4234-9D41-72AAE26AB06E@masklinn.net> On 4 Aug 2009, at 11:28 , Steven D'Aprano wrote: > So I'd ask, does Smalltalk's message passing model match the way human > beings think? Yes. From yinon.me at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 06:30:52 2009 From: yinon.me at gmail.com (Yinon Ehrlich) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 03:30:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Obtaining Python version References: <4a776184$0$1611$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> Message-ID: <9c92f02f-eefb-4983-80ce-e5c060adbba6@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> On Aug 4, 1:19?am, John Nagle wrote: > This works, but it seems too cute: > > ?>>> pyver = map(int,sys.version.split()[0].split('.')) > ?>>> print(pyver) > [2, 6, 1] > > Is it guaranteed that the Python version string will be in a form > suitable for that? ?In other words, does "sys.version" begin > > N.N.N other stuff > > in all versions, and will it stay that way? ?Are there ever > non-numeric versions, like "3.2.rc1"? > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? John Nagle Hi, Easy way to test for Python version: if sys.hexversion >= 0x2060100: pass -- Yinon From koranthala at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 06:32:51 2009 From: koranthala at gmail.com (koranthala) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 03:32:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Which GUI framework to use? References: <43a2d0a9-7166-4f7c-9fb8-13a23980c1d7@y10g2000prf.googlegroups.com> <7dq3tvF2d74reU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> Message-ID: On Aug 4, 11:48?am, "Diez B. Roggisch" wrote: > koranthala schrieb: > > > Hi, > > ? ?I am creating a very minimal application (a networking app). > > ? ?I have written the application using Twisted. > > ? ?Now, I need to put a GUI wrapper on the application. > > ? ?The application needs a login screen and also it needs to be > > minimized to system tray. If I right click the image on system tray, I > > should be able to close it. > > ? ?It uses some legacy code, so the whole app is written in Python > > 2.4. Also, my company requires that I use permissive licenses (no GPL > > - MIT, BSD, LGPL etc ok) > > Google this group. The discussions are abundant about this. Keep in mind > that while Qt changed licenses to LGPL, PyQt didn't and thus you can't > use it. > > > ? ?Which GUI framework is best for this? I tried using Tkinter, but it > > does not support minimize to system tray (or I couldnt find it). > > > ? ?This is my first foray to GUI programming, so other issues that I > > am worried about - > > ? ?1. GUI needs a loop, Twisted needs a loop. How can both go ahead > > without messing each other? > > Google is your friend here, too: > > http://twistedmatrix.com/projects/core/documentation/howto/choosing-r... > > Diez Sorry about it. I should have done the homework better. From lists at cheimes.de Tue Aug 4 06:58:03 2009 From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 12:58:03 +0200 Subject: Is python buffer overflow proof? In-Reply-To: <4a77c0d9$0$1584$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> References: <4a77c0d9$0$1584$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> Message-ID: John Nagle wrote: > A more useful question is whether the standard libraries are being > run through any of the commercial static checkers for possible buffer > overflows. The CPython interpreter is constantly checked with http://www.coverity.com/. Although Python is used for critical stuff at large companies like Apple, Google and NASA, only a few critical bugs in the C code have been found in the last couple of years. From gregor.lingl at aon.at Tue Aug 4 07:19:48 2009 From: gregor.lingl at aon.at (Gregor Lingl) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 13:19:48 +0200 Subject: Announcing PythonTurtle In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4a781958$0$1552$91cee783@newsreader04.highway.telekom.at> cool-RR schrieb: > Hello, > > I wanted to announce that I have just released my little side project, > PythonTurtle. > Here is its website: > http://pythonturtle.com > > Its goal is to be the lowest-threshold way to learn (or teach) Python. > You can read more about it and download it on the website. > > Ram. Hi Ram, that's indeed a nice starting point for kids to doing turtle graphics, although currently it seems to implement only a very small subset of Python's turtle module's capabilities, even less than those of the old turtle module (that shipped with Python upto 2.5). Moreover I have to complain that you decided to use different commands for the turtle's actions - go instead of forward, turn instead of left and right etc. First I think left and right are more intuitive than turn as they do not need negative angles as arguments, which might matter for young children. Also I cannot see the advantage of cammands like visible() or invisible() over showturtle() and hideturtle() But second even kids - when learning how to program - will arrive at a point where it's no more problem to use an editor like IDLE so they could easily switch to Python's turtle module. That would be even easier if they had not to learn a new command set. Moreover a learning environment like PythonTurtle needs something like an editor - at least a simple one - in order to create programs that can be run repeatedly. Coding, that's creating programs - not only issuing a sequence of cammands interactively. It would be certainly a good thing if one had a similar environment using Tkinter, preferably also as part of the standard distribution of Python accompanying the turtle module. I think it should not be that difficult to create a GUI of this sort combining IDLE's shell window, its editor and turtle.py. Alas, at the moment I'm too busy with some othr work to start a project like this. Perhaps someone else might be interested? I'd enjoy to join a team doing it. Finally I'd like to stress, that the aims of PythonTurtle and Python's turtle module are quite different - as one could grasp easily by trying out the collection of examples at python-turtle-demo.googlecode.com that I posted in another posting. Anyway they could very well complement one another in some more mature state of development. Best regards, Gregor From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de Tue Aug 4 07:23:12 2009 From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 13:23:12 +0200 Subject: Is python buffer overflow proof? References: Message-ID: * Jizzai (Sun, 02 Aug 2009 13:50:14 GMT) > Is a _pure_ python program buffer overflow proof? You cannot create "your own" buffer overflow in Python as you can in C and C++ but your code could still be vulnerable if the underlying Python construct is written in C. See [1] for instance. Thorsten [1] http://www.gentoo.org/security/en/glsa/glsa-200610-07.xml From IDOL at il.ibm.com Tue Aug 4 07:25:17 2009 From: IDOL at il.ibm.com (Ido Levy) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 14:25:17 +0300 Subject: How to fetch an XML file using an HTTPS query Message-ID: Hello All I am quite new to Python and I would appreciate your advice on the following issue. I am trying to fetch an XML file from a remote server using an HTTPS query. When testing the HTTPS query from the browser after I entered the URL I got a pop-up box asking me if I want to "save a file" or "open with". >From a Python script I tried using urllib but it fails. I validated that my Python release support https request by using the following code and a different URL: import urllib print urllib.urlopen('https://...').read() and got the expected result. When I tried the above code or the following one with the URL that should return an XML file import sys import urllib import urllib2 headers = {'User-Agent': 'Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050923 Firefox/1.0.7', 'Cookie': 'JSESSIONID=000000000000000000000000000:111111111;Path=/',} url = "https://..." req = urllib2.Request(url, None, headers) urlFH = urllib2.urlopen(req) headers = urlFH.info() page_content = urlFH.readlines() urlFH.close() for line in page_content: print 'line: %s' % line I got the following result in both cases: Invalid filter passed. Thanks in Advance Ido Levy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sibtey.mehndi at genpact.com Tue Aug 4 07:31:42 2009 From: sibtey.mehndi at genpact.com (Mehndi, Sibtey) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 04:31:42 -0700 Subject: how to create a Com object of Picalo Module Message-ID: <1A343A98C8DAE44A8D9D1BF310F90D5E0140E41E62@GCPWINGGN2EVS11.IND.CORP.AD> Hi I want to use the picalo module in to VB.NET so I have tried to create the COM object of picalo module but I am unable to create. Anyone can help me out to create the picalo com object. Thanks, Sibtey This e-mail (and any attachments), is confidential and may be privileged. It may be read, copied and used only by intended recipients. Unauthorized access to this e-mail (or attachments) and disclosure or copying of its contents or any action taken in reliance on it is unlawful. Unintended recipients must notify the sender immediately by e-mail/phone & delete it from their system without making any copies or disclosing it to a third person. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From contact at xavierho.com Tue Aug 4 07:34:44 2009 From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 21:34:44 +1000 Subject: Obtaining Python version In-Reply-To: <9c92f02f-eefb-4983-80ce-e5c060adbba6@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> References: <4a776184$0$1611$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> <9c92f02f-eefb-4983-80ce-e5c060adbba6@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <2d56febf0908040434t118a389by1c1132dd82a2700@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 8:30 PM, Yinon Ehrlich wrote: > Hi, > Easy way to test for Python version: > if sys.hexversion >= 0x2060100: > pass > Great suggestion. I just tested it on my newly installed Python 3.1 (as of 3.1r31) >>> import sys >>> "%X" % sys.hexversion '30100F0' That's genius - '301' for Python 3.1, and '00F0' is r31! I'm definitely going to use this more often in the future. Cheers, Xavier -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From contact at xavierho.com Tue Aug 4 07:37:11 2009 From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 21:37:11 +1000 Subject: Obtaining Python version In-Reply-To: <2d56febf0908040434t118a389by1c1132dd82a2700@mail.gmail.com> References: <4a776184$0$1611$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> <9c92f02f-eefb-4983-80ce-e5c060adbba6@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> <2d56febf0908040434t118a389by1c1132dd82a2700@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2d56febf0908040437n52b906e1w471727b39775d3ea@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 9:34 PM, Xavier Ho wrote: > ... and '00F0' is r31! > Actually, 00F0 is 576 in decimal. Maybe it's the subversion? Anyhow, it's still good! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gregor.lingl at aon.at Tue Aug 4 07:37:23 2009 From: gregor.lingl at aon.at (Gregor Lingl) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 13:37:23 +0200 Subject: Announcing PythonTurtle In-Reply-To: <9e3b0c86-3a2a-4bc4-91f3-1b01a05d6b86@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> References: <9e3b0c86-3a2a-4bc4-91f3-1b01a05d6b86@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <4a781d85$0$2311$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> cool-RR schrieb: > On Aug 4, 7:12 am, John Posner wrote: >>> ... I would also venture to say a key-map >>> ... > If you're asking WHY I put it in a wxPython application, the answer is > pretty much what "r" said: To make it like any other "over the > counter" Windows application, making people feel more comfortable with > it. > Also, not requiring them to install Python+packages, but just > PythonTurtle. Fortunately it's not necessary to install 'packages' to use Python's turtle module as it is one of it's 'batteries included'. And I think it's not so a bad idea to install Python if one want's to learn it, anyway. Regards, Gregor > > Ram. From cocobear.cn at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 08:01:47 2009 From: cocobear.cn at gmail.com (cocobear) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 05:01:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: merge two png pic References: <006617e3-6630-4f04-bff1-99c58dbb6cb5@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com> <4a77e249$0$2449$426a74cc@news.free.fr> Message-ID: <72d7aad1-1fb7-4b32-a87f-636505b0faa2@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com> On Aug 4, 3:24?pm, News123 wrote: > Hi, > > > > > > cocobear wrote: > >> > >> Map = Image.new("RGB", (x,y)) > >> > >> Map.paste(im, box) > >> > >> Map.paste(im1,box) > > >> > >> Map = Map.convert("L", optimize=True, palette=Image.ADAPTIVE) > > >> > >> But if thetwopngpicis too big , or if I have tomergemorepic > >> > >> together, I will get MemoryError: > > >>>>> > >> >>> Image.new("RGB",(44544,38656)) > > >> What do you want to do with such a big image? You will run into the same > >> limitation when you are trying to display it. > > > I want to download a map from google map with high precision > > For me it sounds strange to handle such big files. > > Is the map you download from Google really that big? > Mostly Google maps uses normally tiles of sizes 256x256 pixel, wich you > have to compose to get the ?big image. > The map I downloaded from Google is small(256x256). These small maps will compose a big image. > If your problem is to combine tiles with different palettes, then you > should pobably look at a way to ?'unify' the palette of all tiles befor > combining them. > I think it is impossible to 'unify' all this tiles. > Being no expert of PIL I don't know whether this is easily possible though? > > bye > > N From hendrik at microcorp.co.za Tue Aug 4 08:14:40 2009 From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 14:14:40 +0200 Subject: Which GUI framework to use? In-Reply-To: <43a2d0a9-7166-4f7c-9fb8-13a23980c1d7@y10g2000prf.googlegroups.com> References: <43a2d0a9-7166-4f7c-9fb8-13a23980c1d7@y10g2000prf.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <200908041414.41026.hendrik@microcorp.co.za> On Tuesday 04 August 2009 06:09:05 koranthala wrote: > Hi, > I am creating a very minimal application (a networking app). > I have written the application using Twisted. > Now, I need to put a GUI wrapper on the application. > The application needs a login screen and also it needs to be > minimized to system tray. If I right click the image on system tray, I > should be able to close it. > It uses some legacy code, so the whole app is written in Python > 2.4. Also, my company requires that I use permissive licenses (no GPL > - MIT, BSD, LGPL etc ok) > > Which GUI framework is best for this? I tried using Tkinter, but it > does not support minimize to system tray (or I couldnt find it). look at iconify, and at withdraw - Hendrik From ram.rachum at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 08:19:48 2009 From: ram.rachum at gmail.com (cool-RR) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 05:19:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Announcing PythonTurtle References: <4a781958$0$1552$91cee783@newsreader04.highway.telekom.at> Message-ID: <766a3973-6960-4500-9c7c-88d5261b823c@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> > Hi Ram, > > that's indeed a nice starting point for kids to doing turtle graphics, > although currently it seems to implement only a very small subset of > Python's turtle module's capabilities, even less than those of the old > turtle module (that shipped with Python upto 2.5). > I agree - an undo feature for example would be nice and it's something I would like to do in a future version. Other than that though, I don't think having many turtle-functions is so important. I think the important thing is for the student to build complex things from simple building blocks. > Moreover I have to complain that you decided to use different commands > for the turtle's actions - go instead of forward, turn instead of left > and right etc. First I think left and right are more intuitive than turn > as they do not need negative angles as arguments, which might matter for > young children. Also I cannot see the advantage of cammands like > visible() or invisible() over showturtle() and hideturtle() > But second even kids - when learning how to program - will arrive at a > point where it's no more problem to use an editor like IDLE so they > could easily switch to Python's turtle module. That would be even easier > if they had not to learn a new command set. > Moreover a learning environment like PythonTurtle needs something like > an editor - at least a simple one - in order to create programs that can > be run repeatedly. Coding, that's creating programs - not only issuing > a sequence of cammands interactively. > A text editor would be a good feature for future versions. Regarding the naming of functions: I named them in the way that seemed best to me. You seem not to agree, you like the way your functions are named better, and there's little point in arguing over which convention is truly better. The convention I chose is the one that seemed ideal to me. I did consider naming the functions the same way you did for consistency, but I decided not to compromise the quality of PythonTurtle just to be compatible with a module that my users may not even use. > It would be certainly a good thing if one had a similar environment > using Tkinter, preferably also as part of the standard distribution of > Python accompanying the turtle module. I think it should not be that > difficult to create a GUI of this sort combining IDLE's shell window, > its editor and turtle.py. Alas, at the moment I'm too busy with some > othr work to start a project like this. Perhaps someone else might be > interested? I'd enjoy to join a team doing it. I agree that it shouldn't be difficult; The question is whether someone will step up and do it. > Finally I'd like to stress, that the aims of PythonTurtle and Python's > turtle module are quite different - as one could grasp easily by trying > out the collection of examples at python-turtle-demo.googlecode.com that > I posted in another posting. Anyway they could very well complement one > another in some more mature state of development. > > Best regards, > Gregor Thank you for your feedback Gregor. Ram Rachum. From thangappan143 at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 08:25:30 2009 From: thangappan143 at gmail.com (Thangappan.M) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 17:55:30 +0530 Subject: Problem in Installing PyGreSQL Message-ID: <7aa29e790908040525p562245c8v95d5a5d875fe606f@mail.gmail.com> Dear all, While installing PyGreSQl module in my machine I got the error as pg_config command not found. I am not a super user. how can I install this pg_config tool. -- Regards, Thangappan.M -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From python.list at tim.thechases.com Tue Aug 4 08:27:27 2009 From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 07:27:27 -0500 Subject: Is python buffer overflow proof? In-Reply-To: References: <7dnissF2bthr0U1@mid.uni-berlin.de> Message-ID: <4A78292F.8040907@tim.thechases.com> Marcus Wanner wrote: > On 8/3/2009 3:45 AM, Diez B. Roggisch wrote: >> But you can cast the resulting pointer to an array of larger size, and >> there you are. > > Ah, that makes sense. I had forgotten about ctypes.cast(). You *can* shoot yourself in the foot with Python, you just have to aim much more carefully than you do with C/C++. -tkc From gregor.lingl at aon.at Tue Aug 4 08:45:47 2009 From: gregor.lingl at aon.at (Gregor Lingl) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 14:45:47 +0200 Subject: Announcing PythonTurtle In-Reply-To: <766a3973-6960-4500-9c7c-88d5261b823c@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> References: <4a781958$0$1552$91cee783@newsreader04.highway.telekom.at> <766a3973-6960-4500-9c7c-88d5261b823c@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <4a782d7b$0$1549$91cee783@newsreader04.highway.telekom.at> cool-RR schrieb: >> Hi Ram, >> >> that's indeed a nice starting point for kids to doing turtle graphics, >> although currently it seems to implement only a very small subset of >> Python's turtle module's capabilities, even less than those of the old >> turtle module (that shipped with Python upto 2.5). ... > A text editor would be a good feature for future versions. > Regarding the naming of functions: I named them in the way that seemed > best to me. You seem not to agree, you like the way your functions are > named better, and there's little point in arguing over which > convention is truly better. The convention I chose is the one that > seemed ideal to me. > I did consider naming the functions the same way you did for > consistency, but I decided not to compromise the quality of > PythonTurtle just to be compatible with a module that my users may not > even use. That's the advantage of not developing for the standard library. In fact those elementary commands you use were present already in the old turtle module. When I decided to extend the old turtle module a primary requirement was that it remains 100% compatible to the old one. New versions of a module in the standard library must not break code of previous users of that module. In short: I did not name these functions but I had to use the names that already were there. Nevertheless I'd prefer left and right over turn even today, especially for kids as I argued before. Regards, Gregor > >> It would be certainly a good thing if one had a similar environment >> using Tkinter, preferably also as part of the standard distribution of >> Python accompanying the turtle module. I think it should not be that >> difficult to create a GUI of this sort combining IDLE's shell window, >> its editor and turtle.py. Alas, at the moment I'm too busy with some >> othr work to start a project like this. Perhaps someone else might be >> interested? I'd enjoy to join a team doing it. > > I agree that it shouldn't be difficult; The question is whether > someone will step up and do it. > >> Finally I'd like to stress, that the aims of PythonTurtle and Python's >> turtle module are quite different - as one could grasp easily by trying >> out the collection of examples at python-turtle-demo.googlecode.com that >> I posted in another posting. Anyway they could very well complement one >> another in some more mature state of development. >> >> Best regards, >> Gregor > > Thank you for your feedback Gregor. > > Ram Rachum. From darcy at druid.net Tue Aug 4 08:48:56 2009 From: darcy at druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 08:48:56 -0400 Subject: Problem in installing PyGreSQL In-Reply-To: <7f0b4d2b1d5bd3f3057ead3b029059b9@preisshare.net> References: <7aa29e790908032045p3b52a633m8d0e366a0f648b@mail.gmail.com> <7f0b4d2b1d5bd3f3057ead3b029059b9@preisshare.net> Message-ID: <20090804084856.b825967a.darcy@druid.net> On Tue, 04 Aug 2009 00:42:25 -0400 David Lyon wrote: > > Then I tried to download the module.But I am not able to download it. > > Did none of the links here work? > > http://www.pygresql.org/readme.html#where-to-get The RPM seems to be missing. I am currently trying to find one. I don't run Linux myself and sometimes forget to check that we have a working RPM. > > I am not a super user. > > I am using Linux debian machine > > Python version is 2.4.4 > > Try building it from source. That will work of course and it is a small enough package that it should build painlessly. There is a working setup.py. > Otherwise try getting it from pypi It is also missing the RPM. -- D'Arcy J.M. Cain | Democracy is three wolves http://www.druid.net/darcy/ | and a sheep voting on +1 416 425 1212 (DoD#0082) (eNTP) | what's for dinner. From fatkinson at mishmash.com Tue Aug 4 08:58:46 2009 From: fatkinson at mishmash.com (Fred Atkinson) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 05:58:46 -0700 Subject: Seeding the rand() Generator References: <0b7c702f-5775-418e-8fc5-2f9df7487867@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <52cg759c3kg732ikns1emlgb5c3joom4md@4ax.com> On Tue, 04 Aug 2009 07:12:30 GMT, Jarkko Torppa wrote: >On 2009-08-04, Fred Atkinson wrote: >> On Mon, 3 Aug 2009 20:00:08 -0700 (PDT), Carl Banks >> wrote: >>> >>>If you don't "get" why this is a MySQL question and not a Python >>>question, then you need to learn more about what you are doing. >> >> I wouldn't agree. >> >> I tried using the same command I used when I did this in PHP. >> That command was: mt_srand(date("w")) >> >> It was a PHP command that seeds the MySQL random function, >> according to the folks on the PHP newsgroup. > >It seems that they lied to you. Did you actually try that ? > >> I'm trying to figure out what the Python equivalent of that >> is. > >Python equivalent of that is random.seed(x), if PHP docs are to be believed. > >> Now do you see? > >What you acutally want is "select *,rand(3) as rand from table >order by rand" or something like that. That 3 is the seed in there. Yes, I actually tried that and it worked. Things got much more random after I started using it. Regards, Fred From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu Tue Aug 4 09:03:55 2009 From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 09:03:55 -0400 Subject: Problem in installing PyGreSQL In-Reply-To: <20090804084856.b825967a.darcy@druid.net> References: <7aa29e790908032045p3b52a633m8d0e366a0f648b@mail.gmail.com> <7f0b4d2b1d5bd3f3057ead3b029059b9@preisshare.net> <20090804084856.b825967a.darcy@druid.net> Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 8:48 AM, D'Arcy J.M. Cain wrote: > On Tue, 04 Aug 2009 00:42:25 -0400 > David Lyon wrote: >> > Then I tried to download the module.But I am not able to download it. >> >> Did none of the links here work? >> >> http://www.pygresql.org/readme.html#where-to-get > > The RPM seems to be missing. ?I am currently trying to find one. ?I > don't run Linux myself and sometimes forget to check that we have a > working RPM. > >> > I am not a super user. >> > I am using Linux debian machine >> > Python version is 2.4.4 >> >> Try building it from source. > > That will work of course and it is a small enough package that it > should build painlessly. ?There is a working setup.py. > >> Otherwise try getting it from pypi > > It is also missing the RPM. Doesn't matter here. Debians use DEBs (DEBian packages), not RPMs (for the Red Hat Package Manager). Either way, the OP can't install system level packages. That's what the comment about not being a super user meant. > > -- > D'Arcy J.M. Cain ? ? ? ? | ?Democracy is three wolves > http://www.druid.net/darcy/ ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?| ?and a sheep voting on > +1 416 425 1212 ? ? (DoD#0082) ? ?(eNTP) ? | ?what's for dinner. > -- > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list > From mydevforums at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 09:15:24 2009 From: mydevforums at gmail.com (IronyOfLife) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 06:15:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Python configuration question when python scripts are executed using Appweb as web server. References: Message-ID: On Aug 3, 8:42?pm, "Gabriel Genellina" wrote: > En Mon, 03 Aug 2009 11:04:07 -0300, IronyOfLife ? > escribi?: > > > I have installed python 2.6.2 in windows xp professional machine. I > > have set the following environment variables -- PYTHONPATH. It points > > to following windows folders: python root folder, the lib folder and > > lib-tk folder. > > Why? Did you read it somewhere? Usually there is no need to set the ? > PYTHONPATH variable at all; remove it. > > > I have configured IIS to execute python scripts. > > > I do not have any issues executing python scripts from the python > > interpreter window or from the browser using IIS as the web server. > > Try again after PYTHONPATH is removed, and make sure you can import all ? > the required modules from the Python console. Only then try to run the cgi ? > scripts. > > > However, when I use the open source Appweb web browser to execute > > python scripts. It is able to execute only simple script without > > issues. [...]However I am not able to execute python scripts that ? > > contain import > > statements. I need to point out here that i do not have issue with > > using os or sys packages. When I tried to execute the sample client > > script that came with the gnutls wrapper for python, I got error. I > > narrowed it down to the "from ... import" line in the example. > > > from gnutls.crypto import * > > from gnutls.connection import * > > Check that the above lines work fine from inside the Python console. > If not, something went wrong when you installed the gnutls Python package. > > > Next step, in order to debug, I used the module finder to see what is > > happening. To being with I used the module finder to find out the > > modules loaded for the simple script hello.py. > > Debugging cgi scripts isn't easy sometimes; try adding this line at the ? > start of your script: > > import cgitb;cgitb.enable() > > You should get a nicely formatted stack trace whenever an exception is ? > raised. If you get an HTTP error instead (like 500 Internal Server Error) ? > it's likely a syntax error, you must fix it before continuing. > Then, you may find that modulefinder is no more needed. > > > import pdb > > pdb.set_trace() > > pdb cannot work inside a CGI script; remove that. > > > Once again, let me stress that this issue is happening only when I use > > appweb as the web server. > > I don't know appweb, but if you first make sure the script works from the ? > command line, it should be much easier to make it work in the web server. > > -- > Gabriel Genellina Hi Gabriel Thanks for your reply. As I had mentioned in my original post, I am able to successfully execute gnutls client python script while using python interpreter and from the web browser while using IIS as web server. The scripts were not executing successfully only when I used AppWeb as web server. Setting PYTHONPATH environment variables is mentioned in Python docs. I figured out how to get the debug statements to write to Appweb logs and from there I found out the issue to be ImportError. Python does provide a very cryptic error message. "(, ImportError('DLL load failed: The specified module could not be found.',), )" I then downloaded filemon (as suggested in another forum) utility tool for windows environment. Using the tool I found that python.exe is trying to load gnutls related dlls from system path and a list of folders (I dont know why it didnt try to pick up the dlls from all the path provided in PATH environment variable) none of which contain the gnutls related dlls. I solved the issue temporarily by copying the gnutls related dlls to the path searched by python.exe Now my gnutls client python script executes successfully when i use Appweb as the web server, NOTE: When I use python interpreter or IIS as webserver the path where python.exe looks for gnutls related dll's are different. In this scenario python.exe is able to successfully load the required dlls. From davea at ieee.org Tue Aug 4 09:29:35 2009 From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 09:29:35 -0400 Subject: Newbie Question regarding __init__() In-Reply-To: References: <6ccf5dbe-4b71-4159-88bb-c6a14aa785a9@k26g2000vbp.googlegroups.com> <01bcf8b8-687c-4bf4-acbb-b059a480d382@f33g2000vbm.googlegroups.com> <4A77A43D.4000709@ieee.org> Message-ID: <4A7837BF.6070903@ieee.org> Dennis Lee Bieber wrote: > On Mon, 03 Aug 2009 23:00:13 -0400, Dave Angel > declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general: > > >> To throw away the result of an expression in Python is even easier. >> Just don't use it. >> func1() and func2() >> is a valid expression whose result is not used. And func2()'s result is >> therefore irrelevant. But shortcircuiting means that func2() is only >> called if func1() returned False (or something equivalent to it, like 0 >> or an empty list) >> > > Backwards... > > When using "and", the RHS is only evaluated if the LHS evaluates to > TRUE (if the LHS is FALSE, why go further, since False and anything -> > False). > > Conversely, when using "or", the RHS is only evaluated if the LHS is > FALSE. > You're right of course. Slip of the keyboard. DaveA From nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 09:32:55 2009 From: nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com (Neil Hodgson) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 13:32:55 GMT Subject: Is python buffer overflow proof? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thorsten Kampe: > You cannot create "your own" buffer overflow in Python as you can in C > and C++ but your code could still be vulnerable if the underlying Python > construct is written in C. Python's standard library does now include unsafe constructs. import ctypes x = '1234' # Munging byte 1 OK ctypes.memset(x, 1, 1) print(x) # Next line writes beyond end of variable and crashes ctypes.memset(x, 1, 20000) print(x) Neil From philip at semanchuk.com Tue Aug 4 09:34:17 2009 From: philip at semanchuk.com (Philip Semanchuk) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 09:34:17 -0400 Subject: Problem in Installing PyGreSQL In-Reply-To: <7aa29e790908040525p562245c8v95d5a5d875fe606f@mail.gmail.com> References: <7aa29e790908040525p562245c8v95d5a5d875fe606f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Aug 4, 2009, at 8:25 AM, Thangappan.M wrote: > Dear all, > > While installing PyGreSQl module in my machine I got the error as > pg_config > command not found. > I am not a super user. > how can I install this pg_config tool. Thangappan, pg_config is part of PostgreSQL. It reports various pieces of information about the Postgres installation, like the BINDIR, INCLUDEDIR, compile flags, version etc. If PostgreSQL is installed on your machine, then I'll bet that pg_config is also installed, but it isn't on your path so the PyGreSQl installer can't find it. When you're having trouble installing a specific package like PyGreSQl, you'll probably get better answers by posting your questions to a specific mailing list: http://mailman.vex.net/mailman/listinfo/pygresql By searching the archives you might even find that your question has been answered already. Good luck Philip From tycho at tycho.ws Tue Aug 4 09:41:30 2009 From: tycho at tycho.ws (Tycho Andersen) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 08:41:30 -0500 Subject: How to fetch an XML file using an HTTPS query In-Reply-To: <49b3a7400908040638h46d4e4dcxe5cd4120e9c2c7a1@mail.gmail.com> References: <49b3a7400908040638h46d4e4dcxe5cd4120e9c2c7a1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49b3a7400908040641l5f5daaa8v374041b7fbac442a@mail.gmail.com> Blah, forgot to include the list. When is python-list going to get Reply-To? \t On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 8:38 AM, Tycho Andersen wrote: > Hi Ido, > > On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 6:25 AM, Ido Levy wrote: >> [snip] >> I got the following result in both cases: >> ? ? ? ? >> ? ? ? ? >> ? ? ? ? Invalid filter passed. >> ? ? ? ? > > To me, this doesn't look like a python problem: the application was > successfully connected to and returned a result. The problem you're > experiencing is that it wasn't the result you expected. Are you sure > you're setting the right headers, posting the right form values, etc. > and giving the app exactly what it wants? > > \t > From darcy at druid.net Tue Aug 4 09:53:40 2009 From: darcy at druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 09:53:40 -0400 Subject: Problem in installing PyGreSQL In-Reply-To: References: <7aa29e790908032045p3b52a633m8d0e366a0f648b@mail.gmail.com> <7f0b4d2b1d5bd3f3057ead3b029059b9@preisshare.net> <20090804084856.b825967a.darcy@druid.net> Message-ID: <20090804095340.67e2de0f.darcy@druid.net> On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 09:03:55 -0400 Benjamin Kaplan wrote: > Doesn't matter here. Debians use DEBs (DEBian packages), not RPMs (for > the Red Hat Package Manager). Either way, the OP can't install system > level packages. That's what the comment about not being a super user > meant. Urk! I thought that all the Linux distros used RPMs. Maybe I should just remove that link and let each distro provide their own package. As long as it was just one I could take some steps to make sure that I wasn't distributing malware but the more packages I supply that I can't personally test, the more uncomfortable I get. -- D'Arcy J.M. Cain | Democracy is three wolves http://www.druid.net/darcy/ | and a sheep voting on +1 416 425 1212 (DoD#0082) (eNTP) | what's for dinner. From darcy at druid.net Tue Aug 4 09:55:47 2009 From: darcy at druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 09:55:47 -0400 Subject: Problem in installing PyGreSQL In-Reply-To: References: <7aa29e790908032045p3b52a633m8d0e366a0f648b@mail.gmail.com> <7f0b4d2b1d5bd3f3057ead3b029059b9@preisshare.net> <20090804084856.b825967a.darcy@druid.net> Message-ID: <20090804095547.a5274e22.darcy@druid.net> On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 09:03:55 -0400 Benjamin Kaplan wrote: > Doesn't matter here. Debians use DEBs (DEBian packages), not RPMs (for > the Red Hat Package Manager). Either way, the OP can't install system > level packages. That's what the comment about not being a super user > meant. By the way, you don't have to be super user to install PyGreSQL. You just need SU if you want to install it system wide. PyGreSQL doesn't require any special privileges to run. -- D'Arcy J.M. Cain | Democracy is three wolves http://www.druid.net/darcy/ | and a sheep voting on +1 416 425 1212 (DoD#0082) (eNTP) | what's for dinner. From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu Tue Aug 4 10:02:23 2009 From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 10:02:23 -0400 Subject: Problem in installing PyGreSQL In-Reply-To: <20090804095547.a5274e22.darcy@druid.net> References: <7aa29e790908032045p3b52a633m8d0e366a0f648b@mail.gmail.com> <7f0b4d2b1d5bd3f3057ead3b029059b9@preisshare.net> <20090804084856.b825967a.darcy@druid.net> <20090804095547.a5274e22.darcy@druid.net> Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 9:55 AM, D'Arcy J.M. Cain wrote: > On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 09:03:55 -0400 > Benjamin Kaplan wrote: >> Doesn't matter here. Debians use DEBs (DEBian packages), not RPMs (for >> the Red Hat Package Manager). Either way, the OP can't install system >> level packages. That's what the comment about not being a super user >> meant. > > By the way, you don't have to be super user to install PyGreSQL. ?You > just need SU if you want to install it system wide. ?PyGreSQL doesn't > require any special privileges to run. Right, but the packages install system-wide. That's why he could compile it himself but not use the package. > > -- > D'Arcy J.M. Cain ? ? ? ? | ?Democracy is three wolves > http://www.druid.net/darcy/ ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?| ?and a sheep voting on > +1 416 425 1212 ? ? (DoD#0082) ? ?(eNTP) ? | ?what's for dinner. > -- > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list > From darcy at druid.net Tue Aug 4 10:14:49 2009 From: darcy at druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 10:14:49 -0400 Subject: Problem in installing PyGreSQL In-Reply-To: References: <7aa29e790908032045p3b52a633m8d0e366a0f648b@mail.gmail.com> <7f0b4d2b1d5bd3f3057ead3b029059b9@preisshare.net> <20090804084856.b825967a.darcy@druid.net> <20090804095547.a5274e22.darcy@druid.net> Message-ID: <20090804101449.79cd4522.darcy@druid.net> On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 10:02:23 -0400 Benjamin Kaplan wrote: > > By the way, you don't have to be super user to install PyGreSQL. ?You > > just need SU if you want to install it system wide. ?PyGreSQL doesn't > > require any special privileges to run. > > Right, but the packages install system-wide. That's why he could > compile it himself but not use the package. Exactly so don't install the package. Do "python setup.py build" and put the three files that are built (_pg.so, pg.py and pgdb.py) into any directory and point PYTHONPATH to it. -- D'Arcy J.M. Cain | Democracy is three wolves http://www.druid.net/darcy/ | and a sheep voting on +1 416 425 1212 (DoD#0082) (eNTP) | what's for dinner. From python at mrabarnett.plus.com Tue Aug 4 10:17:39 2009 From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 15:17:39 +0100 Subject: Obtaining Python version In-Reply-To: <2d56febf0908040437n52b906e1w471727b39775d3ea@mail.gmail.com> References: <4a776184$0$1611$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> <9c92f02f-eefb-4983-80ce-e5c060adbba6@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> <2d56febf0908040434t118a389by1c1132dd82a2700@mail.gmail.com> <2d56febf0908040437n52b906e1w471727b39775d3ea@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A784303.2070804@mrabarnett.plus.com> Xavier Ho wrote: > On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 9:34 PM, Xavier Ho > wrote: > > ... > and '00F0' is r31! > > > Actually, 00F0 is 576 in decimal. Maybe it's the subversion? > 0x00F0 is 240. > Anyhow, it's still good! > From contact at xavierho.com Tue Aug 4 10:39:56 2009 From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 00:39:56 +1000 Subject: Obtaining Python version In-Reply-To: <4A784303.2070804@mrabarnett.plus.com> References: <4a776184$0$1611$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> <9c92f02f-eefb-4983-80ce-e5c060adbba6@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> <2d56febf0908040434t118a389by1c1132dd82a2700@mail.gmail.com> <2d56febf0908040437n52b906e1w471727b39775d3ea@mail.gmail.com> <4A784303.2070804@mrabarnett.plus.com> Message-ID: <2d56febf0908040739i79d4bcc9o461d6641c68f5fb9@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 12:17 AM, MRAB wrote: > 0x00F0 is 240. ... Right. I wonder where my brain is. *searches pocket* So, what am I doing wrong here? >>> int(str(0x00F0), 16) 576 Cheers, -Xav -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From darcy at druid.net Tue Aug 4 10:44:43 2009 From: darcy at druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 10:44:43 -0400 Subject: Obtaining Python version In-Reply-To: <2d56febf0908040739i79d4bcc9o461d6641c68f5fb9@mail.gmail.com> References: <4a776184$0$1611$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> <9c92f02f-eefb-4983-80ce-e5c060adbba6@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> <2d56febf0908040434t118a389by1c1132dd82a2700@mail.gmail.com> <2d56febf0908040437n52b906e1w471727b39775d3ea@mail.gmail.com> <4A784303.2070804@mrabarnett.plus.com> <2d56febf0908040739i79d4bcc9o461d6641c68f5fb9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090804104443.72ebffba.darcy@druid.net> On Wed, 5 Aug 2009 00:39:56 +1000 Xavier Ho wrote: > So, what am I doing wrong here? > > >>> int(str(0x00F0), 16) Look at the output of str(0x00F0) for a clue. -- D'Arcy J.M. Cain | Democracy is three wolves http://www.druid.net/darcy/ | and a sheep voting on +1 416 425 1212 (DoD#0082) (eNTP) | what's for dinner. From jjposner at optimum.net Tue Aug 4 10:45:24 2009 From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 10:45:24 -0400 Subject: Announcing PythonTurtle In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A784984.6000903@optimum.net> > Certainly John- although I have not embedded the turtle module at all, > I just wrote my own. OK, then why the statements "from turtle import *" in the modules turtleprocess.py and turtlewidget.py? Tx, John From contact at xavierho.com Tue Aug 4 10:48:39 2009 From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 00:48:39 +1000 Subject: Obtaining Python version In-Reply-To: <2d56febf0908040747s1a02f975ke383323e68732e6e@mail.gmail.com> References: <4a776184$0$1611$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net> <9c92f02f-eefb-4983-80ce-e5c060adbba6@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> <2d56febf0908040434t118a389by1c1132dd82a2700@mail.gmail.com> <2d56febf0908040437n52b906e1w471727b39775d3ea@mail.gmail.com> <4A784303.2070804@mrabarnett.plus.com> <2d56febf0908040739i79d4bcc9o461d6641c68f5fb9@mail.gmail.com> <20090804104443.72ebffba.darcy@druid.net> <2d56febf0908040747s1a02f975ke383323e68732e6e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2d56febf0908040748y41c977c3k96d4437ed35edad@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 12:44 AM, D'Arcy J.M. Cain wrote: > On Wed, 5 Aug 2009 00:39:56 +1000 >> Xavier Ho wrote: >> > So, what am I doing wrong here? >> > >> > >>> int(str(0x00F0), 16) >> >> Look at the output of str(0x00F0) for a clue. >> > > ... Wow. I *am* slow tonight. Thanks. > > >>> int('00F0', 16) > 240 > (oops.) I was mixing the hex literals and the string literals. Thanks a bunch. -Xav -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Samnsparky at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 11:25:28 2009 From: Samnsparky at gmail.com (Sparky) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 08:25:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: WindowsError: exception: access violation writing 0x00000000 References: <73c6c4f5-a00b-4f95-a85d-0f257b2f001a@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: On Aug 3, 3:29?pm, Sparky wrote: > Hello! I am using cTypes on Windows to interface with a dll and I keep > getting an error when I execute this method: > > def eDigitalIn(self, channel, idNum = None, demo = 0, readD=0): > ? ? ? ? """ > ? ? ? ? Name: U12.eAnalogIn(channel, idNum = None, demo = 0, readD=0) > ? ? ? ? Args: See section 4.4 of the User's Guide > ? ? ? ? Desc: This is a simplified version of Counter. Reads & resets > the counter (CNT). > ? ? ? ? """ > > ? ? ? ? if idNum is None: > ? ? ? ? ? ? idNum = self.id > > ? ? ? ? ljid = ctypes.c_long(idNum) > ? ? ? ? state = ctypes.c_long(999) > > ? ? ? ? ecode = staticLib.ECount(ctypes.byref(ljid), demo, channel, > readD, ctypes.byref(state)) > > ? ? ? ? if ecode != 0: raise LabJackException(ecode) > ? ? ? ? if ljid == -1: raise LabJackException(-1, "LabJack not > found.") > > ? ? ? ? return {"idnum":ljid.value, "state":state.value} > > Here is the error message: > Traceback (most recent call last): > ? File "", line 1, in > ? ? device.eDigitalIn(0) > ? File "C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Documents\Python > \LabJackPython_new\u12.py", line 118, in eDigitalIn > ? ? ecode = staticLib.ECount(ctypes.byref(ljid), demo, channel, readD, > ctypes.byref(state)) > WindowsError: exception: access violation writing 0x00000000 > > Here is the signature of the method (which is known to work with C++ > programs): > > long _stdcall EDigitalIn(long *idnum, > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?long demo, > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?long channel, > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?long readD, > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?long *state); > > staticLib is declared with staticLib = ctypes.windll.LoadLibrary > ("ljackuw"). > > Any ideas? > > Thanks, > Sam One more thing, I seem to be getting back incorrect values for doubles passed by reference. Any suggestions? I am on a 64-bit machine but I should think that should not make a difference. Thanks again, Sam From philip at semanchuk.com Tue Aug 4 11:47:31 2009 From: philip at semanchuk.com (Philip Semanchuk) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 11:47:31 -0400 Subject: WindowsError: exception: access violation writing 0x00000000 In-Reply-To: References: <73c6c4f5-a00b-4f95-a85d-0f257b2f001a@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <2231CCC9-1EDA-4923-8110-20015F3BDA6E@semanchuk.com> On Aug 4, 2009, at 11:25 AM, Sparky wrote: > On Aug 3, 3:29 pm, Sparky wrote: >> Hello! I am using cTypes on Windows to interface with a dll and I >> keep >> getting an error when I execute this method: >> >> def eDigitalIn(self, channel, idNum = None, demo = 0, readD=0): >> """ >> Name: U12.eAnalogIn(channel, idNum = None, demo = 0, readD=0) >> Args: See section 4.4 of the User's Guide >> Desc: This is a simplified version of Counter. Reads & resets >> the counter (CNT). >> """ >> >> if idNum is None: >> idNum = self.id >> >> ljid = ctypes.c_long(idNum) >> state = ctypes.c_long(999) >> >> ecode = staticLib.ECount(ctypes.byref(ljid), demo, channel, >> readD, ctypes.byref(state)) >> >> if ecode != 0: raise LabJackException(ecode) >> if ljid == -1: raise LabJackException(-1, "LabJack not >> found.") >> >> return {"idnum":ljid.value, "state":state.value} >> >> Here is the error message: >> Traceback (most recent call last): >> File "", line 1, in >> device.eDigitalIn(0) >> File "C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Documents\Python >> \LabJackPython_new\u12.py", line 118, in eDigitalIn >> ecode = staticLib.ECount(ctypes.byref(ljid), demo, channel, >> readD, >> ctypes.byref(state)) >> WindowsError: exception: access violation writing 0x00000000 >> >> Here is the signature of the method (which is known to work with C++ >> programs): >> >> long _stdcall EDigitalIn(long *idnum, >> long demo, >> long channel, >> long readD, >> long *state); >> >> staticLib is declared with staticLib = ctypes.windll.LoadLibrary >> ("ljackuw"). >> >> Any ideas? >> >> Thanks, >> Sam > > One more thing, I seem to be getting back incorrect values for doubles > passed by reference. Any suggestions? I am on a 64-bit machine but I > should think that should not make a difference. Hi Sam, ctypes is pretty straightforward, and I wouldn't expect it to break on something simple. I looked over your code (warning -- I am a ctypes novice) and it looks OK to me. If you're getting null pointer writes I'd suspect that the call signature isn't what you think it is, perhaps due to a lack of an extern "C" declaration or something like that. In short, I don't think this is a problem in your Python code or in ctypes. But since your Python code is the easiest to change, why not do a quick test of a minimal example? def eDigitalIn_test_version(self, channel, idNum = None, demo = 0, readD=0): ljid = ctypes.c_long(42) state = ctypes.c_long(999) ecode = staticLib.ECount(ctypes.byref(ljid), 0, 0, 0, ctypes.byref(state)) print ecode Does that work any better? You could also try replacing the byref() calls with pointers created by ctypes.pointer(). But I suspect that all this will do is give you confidence that it isn't your Python code that's wrong. You might want to write a minimal C program that invokes ECount. That would help you to prove whether or not you have a working C (not C++!) interface for your function. HTH Philip From cool-rr at cool-rr.com Tue Aug 4 12:04:17 2009 From: cool-rr at cool-rr.com (cool-RR) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 19:04:17 +0300 Subject: Announcing PythonTurtle In-Reply-To: <4A784984.6000903@optimum.net> References: <4A784984.6000903@optimum.net> Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 5:45 PM, John Posner wrote: > > Certainly John- although I have not embedded the turtle module at all, >> I just wrote my own. >> > > OK, then why the statements "from turtle import *" in the modules > turtleprocess.py and turtlewidget.py? > > Tx, > John > > It's from a module turtle.py in my own PythonTurtle package. -- Sincerely, Ram Rachum -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From no.email at please.post Tue Aug 4 12:07:34 2009 From: no.email at please.post (kj) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 16:07:34 +0000 (UTC) Subject: kw param question References: Message-ID: In Steven D'Aprano writes: >On Mon, 03 Aug 2009 19:59:23 +0000, kj wrote: >> I want to write a decorator that, among other things, returns a function >> that has one additional keyword parameter, say foo=None. >> >> When I try >> >> def my_decorator(f): >> # blah, blah >> def wrapper(*p, foo=None, **kw): >> x = f(*p, **kw) >> if (foo): >> # blah, blah >> else >> # blah blah >> return wrapper >> >> ...i get a syntax error where it says "foo=None". I get similar errors >> with everything else I've tried. >> >> Is is possible to do this in Python? >Have you tried this under Python 2.6 or 3.0? >I've run into similar issues, because you can't have keyword-only >arguments in Python 2.5 :( >My solution was to create a decorator that faked them. The docstring is >longer than the decorator itself. >from functools import wraps >def keywords(**defaults): > """Return a decorator which decorates a function to accept keyword > arguments. > Python 2.5 and earlier don't allow keyword-only arguments for > non-builtin functions. The obvious syntax: > def func(x, *args, key=None, word='parrot'): > is not permitted. As a work-around, write your function something > like the following example: > >>> @keywords(key=None, word='parrot') > ... def func(x, y=0, *args, **kwargs): > ... # Inside the function, we can guarantee that kwargs['key'] and > ... # kwargs['word'] both exist, and no other keys. > ... print "x=%s, y=%s, args=%s" % (x, y, args) > ... if kwargs['key'] is None: msg = "kwargs['key'] is None" > ... else: msg = "kwargs['key'] is something else" > ... msg += " and kwargs['word'] is %r" % kwargs['word'] > ... print msg > ... > When you call func, if you don't provide a keyword-only argument, the > default will be substituted: > >>> func(1, 2, 3, 4) > x=1, y=2, args=(3, 4) > kwargs['key'] is None and kwargs['word'] is 'parrot' > >>> func(1) > x=1, y=0, args=() > kwargs['key'] is None and kwargs['word'] is 'parrot' > Naturally you can provide your own values for keyword-only arguments: > >>> func(1, 2, 3, word='spam') > x=1, y=2, args=(3,) > kwargs['key'] is None and kwargs['word'] is 'spam' > >>> func(1, 2, 3, word='spam', key=len) > x=1, y=2, args=(3,) > kwargs['key'] is something else and kwargs['word'] is 'spam' > If you pass an unexpected keyword argument, TypeError is raised: > >>> #doctest:+IGNORE_EXCEPTION_DETAIL > ... func(1, 2, 3, 4, keyword='something') > Traceback (most recent call last): > ... > TypeError: ... > """ > def decorator(func): > """Decorate func to allow keyword-only arguments.""" > @wraps(func) > def f(*args, **kwargs): > for key in kwargs: > if key not in defaults: > raise TypeError( > "'%s' is an invalid keyword argument for " \ > "this function" % key > ) > d = defaults.copy() > d.update(kwargs) > return func(*args, **d) > return f > return decorator Thanks for this. It's very useful. A lot of stuff for me to chew on. kynn From MatzeGuentert at gmx.de Tue Aug 4 12:27:40 2009 From: MatzeGuentert at gmx.de (Matthias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=FCntert?=) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 18:27:40 +0200 Subject: M2Crypto: X509.X509_Extension_Stack() throws AssertionError In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1249403260.3396.6.camel@celsius> > > cert_extension_2 = X509.new_extension("keyUsage", "101000000") > > Maybe your OpenSSL is too old. keyUsage needs to be defined in OpenSSL > obj_dat.h file for this to work. I am using OpenSSL version 0.9.8k-fips which is the latest version. I replaced: cert_extension_2 = X509.new_extension("keyUsage", "101000000") with: cert_extension_2 = X509.new_extension("keyUsage", "keyCertSign, cRLSign") which worked for me. Also I found an easy way to iterate through the extension stack using: cert = X509.X509() for e in cert_extension_stack: cert.add_ext(e) > > cert_extension_3 = X509.new_extension("subjectAlternativeName", > > "DNS:www.mydomain.tld") > And I believe you mispelled this, try subjectAltName. Changing "subjectAlternativeName" to "subjectAltName" did the trick. Thank you! From MatzeGuentert at gmx.de Tue Aug 4 12:51:39 2009 From: MatzeGuentert at gmx.de (Matthias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=FCntert?=) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 18:51:39 +0200 Subject: M2Crypto: How to generate subjectKeyIdentifier / authorityKeyIdentifier Message-ID: <1249404699.3396.30.camel@celsius> Hello I am trying to add the extensions "subjectKeyIdentifier" and "authorityKeyIdentifier" to a x509v3 certificate. Regarding rfc5280, section 4.2.1.2 the key identifier is composed of the 160-bit SHA-1 hash of the BIT STRING subjectPublicKey http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5280#section-4.2.1.2 I don't know how or which function to use from EVP.PKey() to compose a fingerprint from the public key, as you can see below I was playing around with some functions, which simply returned nonsense (at least for me) I would be happy if someone could provide some example code on how to generate a fingerprint from the public key. "print keyp.final()" nor "print keyp.sign_final() on the last line does return anything... -------------------------------------------------------- from M2Crypto import X509, m2, RSA, EVP from config import * import os.path class Keypair(object): def __init__(self): self.config = Config() self.keypair = EVP.PKey() def create_keypair(self, key_size=1024): # generate an RSA key pair # OpenSSL book page 232 # second argument should be a constant RSA_F4 or RSA_3 rsa_key_pair = RSA.gen_key(key_size, m2.RSA_F4) # check if RSA key pair is usable # OpenSSL book page 232 if rsa_key_pair.check_key() != 1: print 'error while generating key!' sys.exit() # EVP object which can hold either a DSA or an RSA object # OpenSSL book page 236 evp_key_container = EVP.PKey() evp_key_container.assign_rsa(rsa_key_pair) self.keypair = evp_key_container def save_keypair(self, filename): if not os.path.exists(filename): self.keypair.save_key(filename, None) else: print "error in save_keypair(): cannot save key, it already exists" def load_keypair(self, filename): try: self.keypair = EVP.load_key(filename) except TypeError: print "error in load_keypair(): maybe file does not exist?" def get_keypair(self): return self.keypair def get_public_key(self): return self.keypair.pkey def print_keypair(self): print self.keypair.as_pem(None) if __name__ == "__main__": keypair = Keypair() keypair.create_keypair() # keypair.save_keypair("test.keys") keyp = keypair.get_keypair() print keyp.final() print keyp.sign_final() --------------------------------------------------------- And this maybe some OT question but how can I use OpenSSL to generate some fingerprint for testing and comparison purpose? For example I have got a certificate client.crt and the keys client.key $ openssl x509 -noout -text -in client.crt [...] X509v3 Subject Key Identifier: D2:C0:39:37:45:F6:A3:BF:D8:91:A2:F5:C7:43:42:80:6A:3C:38:AF X509v3 Authority Key Identifier: A7:E2:2E:59:F8:53:1F:68:F2:59:34:32:42:F6:21:20:C0:D1:3A:89 [...] But openssl provides me different fingerprint... so whats wrong here? $ openssl rsa -pubout -in client_1.key | openssl sha1 -c writing RSA key cc:d2:ab:16:1f:a1:23:3e:fe:45:03:ab:4f:86:57:65:52:16:b2:1a From bartsmeets86 at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 12:52:05 2009 From: bartsmeets86 at gmail.com (Bart Smeets) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 18:52:05 +0200 Subject: easy_install: unresolved external symbol In-Reply-To: <87f2eede5ce0f1391994db66153e3c96@preisshare.net> References: <2119ee90908031339o71e19624qa815241b446d739d@mail.gmail.com> <2119ee90908040152k5a744f98l7d5bc7da755948a2@mail.gmail.com> <87f2eede5ce0f1391994db66153e3c96@preisshare.net> Message-ID: <2119ee90908040952p6233d28ek99584bcd4f5f6f42@mail.gmail.com> How do I give the option to link to the ez_setup.py? 2009/8/4 David Lyon > On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 10:52:20 +0200, Bart Smeets > wrote: > > I could ofcourse use cxfreeze's binary package. But bbfreeze is not > > available as a binary. I would love to get easy_install to work. But I > have > > no idea what's going wrong here. > > What is going on is that setuptools does some very 'advanced' things. > > The best you can do is give the option to link to the ez_setup.py > install script and let the users install it them themselves... > > David > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From r.a.teterin at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 13:08:45 2009 From: r.a.teterin at gmail.com (Roman) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 21:08:45 +0400 Subject: Trying to get ABC to work In-Reply-To: <358094.5069.qm@web65302.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> References: <358094.5069.qm@web65302.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090804170845.GA3092@localhost> Following code works, although I'm not sure that it's exactly what you want: import abc class MetaExample(abc.ABCMeta): def __new__(mcs, name, bases, ns): ns['cls_meth'] = mcs.cls_meth if not 'cls_abc' in ns: ns['cls_abc'] = mcs.cls_abc return super().__new__(mcs, name, bases, ns) def cls_meth(cls): print('Class method defined stub') @abc.abstractmethod def cls_abc(cls): try: print('Class-Abstract method defined stub') except NotImplementedError as err: print('Must implement cls_abc') except: print('General exception at cls_abc method') That's how I've tested it: class Test1(object, metaclass=MetaExample): def cls_abc(self): print("method of", self) class Test2(object, metaclass=MetaExample): pass test1 = Test1() test1.cls_meth() test1.cls_abc() test2 = Test2() Output: Class method defined stub method of <__main__.Test1 object at 0xb7b5f52c> Traceback (most recent call last): File "/tmp/test.py", line 32, in test2 = Test2() TypeError: Can't instantiate abstract class Test2 with abstract methods cls_abc According to the documentation, @abstractmethod "requires that the metaclass is ABCMeta or derived from it", so I've changed base class from type to ABCMeta. Also I don't think that using try/except inside the abstract method will work, maybe it would be better to check presence of all required methods directly inside the metaclass, without @abstractmethod decorator. From holger at merlinux.eu Tue Aug 4 13:19:16 2009 From: holger at merlinux.eu (holger krekel) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 19:19:16 +0200 Subject: pylib/py.test 1.0.0 released Message-ID: <20090804171915.GS31589@trillke.net> Hello everyone, i am happy to announce pylib/py.test 1.0.0, a MIT-licensed library geared towards advanced testing and elastic distributed programming with Python. It features the mature cross-project py.test automated testing tool with many new features, aiming to: * allow writing zero-boilerplate automated tests in Python * offer strong debugging and reporting of test failures * rapidly run and ad-hoc distribute tests to multiple CPUs/platforms * support unit-, functional and integration testing * be easy to extend and tackle growing testing needs, (current prime example oejskit, a live-browser javascript unittesting 3rd party plugin) Please check things out at: http://pytest.org or read the blogged release announcement: http://tetamap.wordpress.com/2009/08/04/pylib-1-0-0 or read on for some ... Distinctive new features shipping with py.test 1.0.0 ------------------------------------------------------ For those already knowing about the older 0.9.2 release or being experienced with other testing approaches i'll try to give a summary of the distinctive testing features shipping with 1.0.0: * test function arguments ("funcargs"): With this, python test functions can name arguments and one writes factory functions to provide instances for such "fixture" arguments. This page http://codespeak.net/py/dist/test/funcargs.html contains reference info and tutorial examples. Test function arguments also allow for natural test parametrization - one provides several different argument values, no changes to the test function needed, no magic "yield" for generating tests anymore - although 1.0 still allows them and of course still supports traditional xUnit-style setup_module/class/function or (new) direct runs of unittest.TestCase style tests. * distributed testing: distributing test runs among Linux/OSX/Windows hosts and across python-2.4 till python-2.6 interpreters works reasonably stable now. This means that you can easily iron out test-module/function specific problems across a variety of platforms, accelerating the change & test feedback cycle. * xfail: a new way to mark tests as "expected to fail" which means they run normally but are reported/counted specially. This "xfail" mark is meant to mark missing / wrong implementation rather than missing dependencies / wrong platforms for which one uses "skip". Especially for larger test suites making this distinction is very helpful. * IO-capturing: output of test functions is captured per-test, by default including any output from sub processes. This works on all platforms and also (now) interacts well with the logging module without importing/using it itself so there are no interferences. * pastebin: new command line option "--pastebin" to send your test session output or individual test failures to the Pocoo pastebin service and prints out URLs. Convenient for quick IRC/messaging communication. * plugins: it is now easy to write plugins by implementing one or more of the 37 hooks which py.test calls to implement the testing process. There are many examples, among them the "oejskit" plugin which integrates testing of javascript code in real-life browsers into a regular test run. Apart from such separately distributed "cross-project" plugins you can also write per-project plugins/extensions that lives with your testing code. cheers & have fun, holger -- Metaprogramming, Python, Testing: http://tetamap.wordpress.com Python, PyPy, pytest contracting: http://merlinux.eu From Samnsparky at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 13:23:10 2009 From: Samnsparky at gmail.com (Sparky) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 10:23:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: WindowsError: exception: access violation writing 0x00000000 References: <73c6c4f5-a00b-4f95-a85d-0f257b2f001a@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <26927cc2-2134-46b6-873a-02be9cf829f2@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> On Aug 4, 9:47?am, Philip Semanchuk wrote: > On Aug 4, 2009, at 11:25 AM, Sparky wrote: > > > > > > > On Aug 3, 3:29 pm, Sparky wrote: > >> Hello! I am using cTypes on Windows to interface with a dll and I ? > >> keep > >> getting an error when I execute this method: > > >> def eDigitalIn(self, channel, idNum = None, demo = 0, readD=0): > >> ? ? ? ? """ > >> ? ? ? ? Name: U12.eAnalogIn(channel, idNum = None, demo = 0, readD=0) > >> ? ? ? ? Args: See section 4.4 of the User's Guide > >> ? ? ? ? Desc: This is a simplified version of Counter. Reads & resets > >> the counter (CNT). > >> ? ? ? ? """ > > >> ? ? ? ? if idNum is None: > >> ? ? ? ? ? ? idNum = self.id > > >> ? ? ? ? ljid = ctypes.c_long(idNum) > >> ? ? ? ? state = ctypes.c_long(999) > > >> ? ? ? ? ecode = staticLib.ECount(ctypes.byref(ljid), demo, channel, > >> readD, ctypes.byref(state)) > > >> ? ? ? ? if ecode != 0: raise LabJackException(ecode) > >> ? ? ? ? if ljid == -1: raise LabJackException(-1, "LabJack not > >> found.") > > >> ? ? ? ? return {"idnum":ljid.value, "state":state.value} > > >> Here is the error message: > >> Traceback (most recent call last): > >> ? File "", line 1, in > >> ? ? device.eDigitalIn(0) > >> ? File "C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Documents\Python > >> \LabJackPython_new\u12.py", line 118, in eDigitalIn > >> ? ? ecode = staticLib.ECount(ctypes.byref(ljid), demo, channel, ? > >> readD, > >> ctypes.byref(state)) > >> WindowsError: exception: access violation writing 0x00000000 > > >> Here is the signature of the method (which is known to work with C++ > >> programs): > > >> long _stdcall EDigitalIn(long *idnum, > >> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?long demo, > >> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?long channel, > >> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?long readD, > >> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?long *state); > > >> staticLib is declared with staticLib = ctypes.windll.LoadLibrary > >> ("ljackuw"). > > >> Any ideas? > > >> Thanks, > >> Sam > > > One more thing, I seem to be getting back incorrect values for doubles > > passed by reference. Any suggestions? I am on a 64-bit machine but I > > should think that should not make a difference. > > Hi Sam, > ctypes is pretty straightforward, and I wouldn't expect it to break on ? > something simple. I looked over your code (warning -- I am a ctypes ? > novice) and it looks OK to me. If you're getting null pointer writes ? > I'd suspect that the call signature isn't what you think it is, ? > perhaps due to a lack of an extern "C" declaration or something like ? > that. In short, I don't think this is a problem in your Python code or ? > in ctypes. > > But since your Python code is the easiest to change, why not do a ? > quick test of a minimal example? > > def eDigitalIn_test_version(self, channel, idNum = None, demo = 0, ? > readD=0): > ? ? ? ? ?ljid = ctypes.c_long(42) > ? ? ? ? ?state = ctypes.c_long(999) > > ? ? ? ? ?ecode = staticLib.ECount(ctypes.byref(ljid), 0, 0, 0, ? > ctypes.byref(state)) > > ? ? ? ? ?print ecode > > Does that work any better? > > You could also try replacing the byref() calls with pointers created ? > by ctypes.pointer(). But I suspect that all this will do is give you ? > confidence that it isn't your Python code that's wrong. > > You might want to write a minimal C program that invokes ECount. That ? > would help you to prove whether or not you have a working C (not C++!) ? > interface for your function. > > HTH > Philip Hey Philip, Thank you for your response. It turns out I was calling a function that I was not intending on calling, so it was not a Python problem. Thanks, Sam From jay.bird0804 at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 14:15:47 2009 From: jay.bird0804 at gmail.com (Jay Bird) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 11:15:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Overlap in python Message-ID: Hi everyone, I've been trying to figure out a simple algorithm on how to combine a list of parts that have 1D locations that overlap into a non- overlapping list. For example, here would be my input: part name location a 5-9 b 7-10 c 3-6 d 15-20 e 18-23 And here is what I need for an output: part name location c.a.b 3-10 d.e 15-23 I've tried various methods, which all fail. Does anyone have an idea how to do this? Thank you very much! Jay From marcusw at cox.net Tue Aug 4 14:31:49 2009 From: marcusw at cox.net (Marcus Wanner) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 11:31:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Overlap in python References: Message-ID: <3f11f316-5e9e-4786-8757-edf9ab234bb7@j32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> On Aug 4, 2:15?pm, Jay Bird wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I've been trying to figure out a simple algorithm on how to combine a > list of parts that have 1D locations that overlap into a non- > overlapping list. ?For example, here would be my input: > > part name ? location > a ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?5-9 > b ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?7-10 > c ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?3-6 > d ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?15-20 > e ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?18-23 > > And here is what I need for an output: > part name ? location > c.a.b ? ? ? ? ? ?3-10 > d.e ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 15-23 > > I've tried various methods, which all fail. ?Does anyone have an idea > how to do this? > > Thank you very much! > Jay Just take all the values, put them in a list, and use min() and max(). For example: import string def makelist(values): values = string.replace(values, ' ', '') listofvaluepairs = string.split(values, ',') listofvalues = [] for pair in listofvaluepairs: twovalues = string.split(pair, '-') listofvalues.append(int(twovalues[0])) listofvalues.append(int(twovalues[1])) return listofvalues values = '5-9, 7-10, 3-6' values = makelist(values) print('Values: %d-%d' %(min(values), max(values)) ) Marcus From anna.konstorum at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 14:46:14 2009 From: anna.konstorum at gmail.com (Ann) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 11:46:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Overlap in python References: <3f11f316-5e9e-4786-8757-edf9ab234bb7@j32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: On Aug 4, 11:31?am, Marcus Wanner wrote: > On Aug 4, 2:15?pm, Jay Bird wrote: > > > > > Hi everyone, > > > I've been trying to figure out a simple algorithm on how to combine a > > list of parts that have 1D locations that overlap into a non- > > overlapping list. ?For example, here would be my input: > > > part name ? location > > a ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?5-9 > > b ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?7-10 > > c ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?3-6 > > d ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?15-20 > > e ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?18-23 > > > And here is what I need for an output: > > part name ? location > > c.a.b ? ? ? ? ? ?3-10 > > d.e ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 15-23 > > > I've tried various methods, which all fail. ?Does anyone have an idea > > how to do this? > > > Thank you very much! > > Jay > > Just take all the values, put them in a list, and use min() and max(). > For example: > > import string > > def makelist(values): > ? ? values = string.replace(values, ' ', '') > ? ? listofvaluepairs = string.split(values, ',') > ? ? listofvalues = [] > ? ? for pair in listofvaluepairs: > ? ? ? ? twovalues = string.split(pair, '-') > ? ? ? ? listofvalues.append(int(twovalues[0])) > ? ? ? ? listofvalues.append(int(twovalues[1])) > ? ? return listofvalues > > values = '5-9, 7-10, 3-6' > values = makelist(values) > print('Values: %d-%d' %(min(values), max(values)) ) > > Marcus Thank you for your help, this is a very nice program but it does not address the issue that I have values that do not overlap, for example 'c' and 'd' do not overlap in the above example and thus I would not want to output 3-20 but the individual positions instead. In addition, my inputs are not ordered from smallest to largest, thus I could have a situation where a=5-9, b=15-20, c=7-10, etc., and I would still want an output of: a.c = 5-10, b=15-20. I apologize for the complication. Thank you again! Jay From aurele.tux at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 14:53:56 2009 From: aurele.tux at gmail.com (aurelien) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 20:53:56 +0200 Subject: Is it possible to have the python color in the terminal ? Message-ID: <1249412036.5765.20.camel@r2d2> Hello, I am under gNewSense, i am a newbbie on Python, i look for how change the color terminal when python run. at the step >>> all is in black and white. Is it possible to have the python color in the terminal ? Thanks for your help. aurelien From marcusw at cox.net Tue Aug 4 14:55:22 2009 From: marcusw at cox.net (Marcus Wanner) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 14:55:22 -0400 Subject: Overlap in python In-Reply-To: References: <3f11f316-5e9e-4786-8757-edf9ab234bb7@j32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: On 8/4/2009 2:46 PM, Ann wrote: > On Aug 4, 11:31 am, Marcus Wanner wrote: >> On Aug 4, 2:15 pm, Jay Bird wrote: >> >> >> >>> Hi everyone, >>> I've been trying to figure out a simple algorithm on how to combine a >>> list of parts that have 1D locations that overlap into a non- >>> overlapping list. For example, here would be my input: >>> part name location >>> a 5-9 >>> b 7-10 >>> c 3-6 >>> d 15-20 >>> e 18-23 >>> And here is what I need for an output: >>> part name location >>> c.a.b 3-10 >>> d.e 15-23 >>> I've tried various methods, which all fail. Does anyone have an idea >>> how to do this? >>> Thank you very much! >>> Jay >> Just take all the values, put them in a list, and use min() and max(). >> For example: >> >> import string >> >> def makelist(values): >> values = string.replace(values, ' ', '') >> listofvaluepairs = string.split(values, ',') >> listofvalues = [] >> for pair in listofvaluepairs: >> twovalues = string.split(pair, '-') >> listofvalues.append(int(twovalues[0])) >> listofvalues.append(int(twovalues[1])) >> return listofvalues >> >> values = '5-9, 7-10, 3-6' >> values = makelist(values) >> print('Values: %d-%d' %(min(values), max(values)) ) >> >> Marcus > > Thank you for your help, this is a very nice program but it does not > address the issue that I have values that do not overlap, for example > 'c' and 'd' do not overlap in the above example and thus I would not > want to output 3-20 but the individual positions instead. In > addition, my inputs are not ordered from smallest to largest, thus I > could have a situation where a=5-9, b=15-20, c=7-10, etc., and I would > still want an output of: a.c = 5-10, b=15-20. I apologize for the > complication. > > Thank you again! > > Jay That would be a bit more complicated...you might try using tuples of values in a list, or writing your own class for the data handling. Unfortunately that's not something I can just sit down and code in 5 minutes, it would take some careful thought and planning. Marcus From marcusw at cox.net Tue Aug 4 15:00:32 2009 From: marcusw at cox.net (Marcus Wanner) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 15:00:32 -0400 Subject: Is it possible to have the python color in the terminal ? In-Reply-To: <1249412036.5765.20.camel@r2d2> References: <1249412036.5765.20.camel@r2d2> Message-ID: On 8/4/2009 2:53 PM, aurelien wrote: > Hello, > > I am under gNewSense, i am a newbbie on Python, i look for how change > the color terminal when python run. > at the step >>> all is in black and white. > Is it possible to have the python color in the terminal ? > > Thanks for your help. > > aurelien > You might try posting to this thread: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/58df7b77394e4666/f4c13766a1e09380 I don't know much about the question myself, though. Marcus From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk Tue Aug 4 15:10:52 2009 From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 20:10:52 +0100 Subject: Overlap in python In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jay Bird wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I've been trying to figure out a simple algorithm on how to combine a > list of parts that have 1D locations that overlap into a non- > overlapping list. For example, here would be my input: > > part name location > a 5-9 > b 7-10 > c 3-6 > d 15-20 > e 18-23 > > And here is what I need for an output: > part name location > c.a.b 3-10 > d.e 15-23 > > I've tried various methods, which all fail. Does anyone have an idea > how to do this? > > Thank you very much! > Jay I haven't tried but could you adapt this:- data = [ 1, 4,5,6, 10, 15,16,17,18, 22, 25,26,27,28] for k, g in groupby(enumerate(data), lambda (i,x):i-x): print map(itemgetter(1), g) found here http://www.python.org/doc/2.6.2/library/itertools.html#module-itertools -- Kindest regards. Mark Lawrence. From kosta.koeman at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 15:13:10 2009 From: kosta.koeman at gmail.com (Kosta) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 12:13:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Using Python to automate builds Message-ID: <84d9ae10-3aee-40a8-97ac-05799da0de64@f18g2000prf.googlegroups.com> I am a Python newbie, tasked with automating (researching) building Windows drivers using the WDK build environment. I've been looking into Python for this (instead of writing a bunch of batch files). What I would like to do, is to open a cmd window, and start a Python script. This script would then (based upon input arguments), build different flavors of the driver (fre, chk, x86, x64) and do some post processing (create cat files, sign, etc.). I was hoping to take advantage as much as possible of exisiting infrastructure from the WDK. I am able to call setenv.bat and provide all the input parameters. One of the things setenv.bat does is change the path environment variable. However, this is not captured by Python. I could duplicate the functionality, but I'd rather not. Is there a way to capture all enviroment variable changes being made by a batch file from Python? Thanks! From aurele.tux at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 15:20:03 2009 From: aurele.tux at gmail.com (aurelien) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 12:20:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Is it possible to have the python color in the terminal ? Message-ID: Hello, I am under gNewSense, i am a newbbie on Python, i look for how change the color terminal when python run. at the step >>> all is in black and white. Is it possible to have the python color in the terminal ? Thanks for your help aurelien From aurele.tux at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 15:23:24 2009 From: aurele.tux at gmail.com (aurelien) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 21:23:24 +0200 Subject: Is it possible to have the python color in the terminal ? In-Reply-To: References: <1249412036.5765.20.camel@r2d2> Message-ID: <1249413804.5765.24.camel@r2d2> > You might try posting to this thread: > http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/58df7b77394e4666/f4c13766a1e09380 > I don't know much about the question myself, though. > > Marcus Thanks for your help ! aurelien From no.email at please.post Tue Aug 4 15:29:00 2009 From: no.email at please.post (kj) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 19:29:00 +0000 (UTC) Subject: no-clobber dicts? References: Message-ID: In Steven D'Aprano writes: >On Mon, 03 Aug 2009 21:07:32 +0000, kj wrote: >> I use the term "no-clobber dict" to refer to a dictionary D with the >> especial property that if K is in D, then >> >> D[K] = V >> >> will raise an exception unless V == D[K]. In other words, D[K] can be >> set if K doesn't exist already among D's keys, or if the assigned value >> is equal to the current value of D[K]. All other assignments to D[K] >> trigger an exception. >Coincidentally, I just built something very close to what you ask. Here >it is: >class ConstantNamespace(dict): > """Dictionary with write-once keys.""" > def __delitem__(self, key): > raise TypeError("can't unbind constants") > def __setitem__(self, key, value): > if key in self: > raise TypeError("can't rebind constants") > super(ConstantNamespace, self).__setitem__(key, value) > def clear(self): > raise TypeError('cannot unbind constants') > def pop(self, key, *args): > raise TypeError("cannot pop constants") > def popitem(self): > raise TypeError("cannot pop constants") > def update(self, other): > for key in other: > if key in self: > raise TypeError('cannot update constants') > # If we get here, then we're not modifying anything, > # so okay to proceed. > super(ConstantNamespace, self).update(other) > def copy(self): > c = self.__class__(**self) > return c Thanks. As you note this not quite what I'm looking for, but it's a good template for it. kynn From no.email at please.post Tue Aug 4 15:30:51 2009 From: no.email at please.post (kj) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 19:30:51 +0000 (UTC) Subject: no-clobber dicts? References: <28309a6c-f6f2-4f11-852f-6e3f570253e7@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: In Chris Rebert writes: >On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 2:47 PM, r wrote: >> On Aug 3, 4:07=C2=A0pm, kj wrote: >>> I use the term "no-clobber dict" to refer to a dictionary D with >>> the especial property that if K is in D, then >>> >>> =C2=A0 D[K] =3D V >>> >>> will raise an exception unless V =3D=3D D[K]. =C2=A0In other words, D[K] >>> can be set if K doesn't exist already among D's keys, or if the >>> assigned value is equal to the current value of D[K]. =C2=A0All other >>> assignments to D[K] trigger an exception. >>> >>> The idea here is to detect inconsistencies in the data. >>> >>> This is a data structure I often need. =C2=A0Before I re-invent the >>> wheel, I thought I'd ask: is it already available? >>> >>> TIA! >>> >>> kynn >> >> Not sure if something like this already exists, but it would be >> trivial to implement by overriding dict.__setitem__() >That is, if you don't care about .update() not preserving the >invariant. The implication here is that .update() does not in turn use .__setitem__(), which I find a bit surprising. kynn From r.a.teterin at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 15:54:10 2009 From: r.a.teterin at gmail.com (Roman) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 23:54:10 +0400 Subject: Is it possible to have the python color in the terminal ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090804195410.GA3247@localhost> On 04/08/09 12:20, aurelien wrote: > Hello, > > I am under gNewSense, i am a newbbie on Python, i look for how change > the color terminal when python run. > at the step >>> all is in black and white. > Is it possible to have the python color in the terminal ? > > Thanks for your help > > aurelien > -- > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list > If you want to get colourful output, you can use IPython (http://ipython.scipy.org/moin/FrontPage), it is an enhanced Python shell. You may also change colour of text by printing appropriate escape sequences (e.g. executing print("\033[0;32m") in Python interpreter should change foreground colour to green. From gregor.lingl at aon.at Tue Aug 4 15:57:40 2009 From: gregor.lingl at aon.at (Gregor Lingl) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 21:57:40 +0200 Subject: Overlap in python In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4a7892c2$0$2297$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> Jay Bird schrieb: > Hi everyone, > > I've been trying to figure out a simple algorithm on how to combine a > list of parts that have 1D locations that overlap into a non- > overlapping list. For example, here would be my input: > > part name location > a 5-9 > b 7-10 > c 3-6 > d 15-20 > e 18-23 > > And here is what I need for an output: > part name location > c.a.b 3-10 > d.e 15-23 > Suppose you have your data given as a dictionary: data = {'a':(5,9), 'b':(7,10), 'c':(3,6), 'd':(15,20), 'e':(18,23)} Then the following not particularly elegant but very simple and straight forward algorithm will solve your problem: def values(key): return set(range(data[key][0], data[key][1]+1)) keys = list(data.keys()) result = [] while keys: k = [keys[0]] keys = keys[1:] v = values(k[0]) for l in keys[:]: if v.intersection(values(l)): v.update(values(l)) k.append(l) keys.remove(l) result.append((k,v)) # print(result) ## if you like for k, v in result: print(".".join(sorted(k)), "%d-%d" % (min(v), max(v))) Regards, Gregor > I've tried various methods, which all fail. Does anyone have an idea > how to do this? > > Thank you very much! > Jay From info at egenix.com Tue Aug 4 15:58:40 2009 From: info at egenix.com (eGenix Team: M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 21:58:40 +0200 Subject: ANN: eGenix pyOpenSSL Distribution 0.9.0-0.9.8k now also in .egg format Message-ID: <4A7892F0.3080805@egenix.com> ________________________________________________________________________ ANNOUNCING eGenix.com pyOpenSSL Distribution Version 0.9.0-0.9.8k An easy to install and use repackaged distribution of the pyOpenSSL Python interface for OpenSSL - available on Windows, Mac OS X and Unix platforms This announcement is also available on our web-site for online reading: http://www.egenix.com/company/news/eGenix-pyOpenSSL-Distribution-0.9.0-0.9.8k-1-Update.html ________________________________________________________________________ INTRODUCTION The eGenix.com pyOpenSSL Distribution includes everything you need to get started with SSL in Python. 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As always, binaries include both pyOpenSSL and the necessary OpenSSL libraries. ________________________________________________________________________ DOWNLOADS The download archives and instructions for installing the package can be found at: http://www.egenix.com/products/python/pyOpenSSL/ ________________________________________________________________________ UPGRADING Before installing this version of pyOpenSSL, please make sure that you uninstall any previously installed pyOpenSSL version. Otherwise, you could end up not using the included OpenSSL libs. _______________________________________________________________________ SUPPORT Commercial support for these packages is available from eGenix.com. Please see http://www.egenix.com/services/support/ for details about our support offerings. Enjoy, -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Services directly from the Source (#1, Aug 04 2009) >>> Python/Zope Consulting and Support ... http://www.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ... http://python.egenix.com/ ________________________________________________________________________ ::: Try our new mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! :::: eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH Pastor-Loeh-Str.48 D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611 http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/ From no.email at please.post Tue Aug 4 16:01:12 2009 From: no.email at please.post (kj) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 20:01:12 +0000 (UTC) Subject: no-clobber dicts? References: Message-ID: In Steven D'Aprano writes: >class ConstantNamespace(dict): >I also have a series of unit tests for it if you're interested in them. Actually, come to think of it, I think I'll take you up on this. I'd love to see those tests. Unit testing in Python is in area I need to work on. TIA! kynn From dickinsm at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 16:03:00 2009 From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 13:03:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Overlap in python References: Message-ID: <78d86d92-d373-4163-a418-600a3eb36ab3@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> On Aug 4, 7:15?pm, Jay Bird wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I've been trying to figure out a simple algorithm on how to combine a > list of parts that have 1D locations that overlap into a non- > overlapping list. ?For example, here would be my input: > > part name ? location > a ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?5-9 > b ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?7-10 > c ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?3-6 > d ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?15-20 > e ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?18-23 > > And here is what I need for an output: > part name ? location > c.a.b ? ? ? ? ? ?3-10 > d.e ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 15-23 > > I've tried various methods, which all fail. ?Does anyone have an idea > how to do this? Here's an approach that might work. Turning it into a sensible function and parsing input/massaging output properly are left as an exercise. Blocks that just touch (e.g. (3, 6) then (6, 9)) are amalgamated; if this isn't what you want, and they should be treated as separate instead, then replace 'Stop' with 'Finish' (or any other string that sorts before 'Start'). input = [ ('a', (5, 9)), ('b', (7, 10)), ('c', (3, 6)), ('d', (15, 20)), ('e', (18, 23)), ] # create sorted list of points where an interval is entered or left transitions = [] for name, (start, stop) in input: transitions.extend([(start, 'Start', name), (stop, 'Stop', name)]) transitions.sort() # scan list, accumulating blocks along the way. count = 0 for i, (pt, startend, name) in enumerate(transitions): if startend == 'Start': if not count: start = pt names = [] count += 1 names.append(name) else: count -= 1 if not count: print '.'.join(names), "%s--%s" % (start, pt) The output that I get from this under Python 2.6 is: c.a.b 3--10 d.e 15--23 -- Mark From clp2 at rebertia.com Tue Aug 4 16:03:08 2009 From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 13:03:08 -0700 Subject: no-clobber dicts? In-Reply-To: References: <28309a6c-f6f2-4f11-852f-6e3f570253e7@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <50697b2c0908041303ycf7a2f2g47b2b2eebf723d32@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 12:30 PM, kj wrote: > In Chris Rebert writes: > >>On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 2:47 PM, r wrote: >>> On Aug 3, 4:07=C2=A0pm, kj wrote: >>>> I use the term "no-clobber dict" to refer to a dictionary D with >>>> the especial property that if K is in D, then >>>> >>>> =C2=A0 D[K] =3D V >>>> >>>> will raise an exception unless V =3D=3D D[K]. =C2=A0In other words, D[K] >>>> can be set if K doesn't exist already among D's keys, or if the >>>> assigned value is equal to the current value of D[K]. =C2=A0All other >>>> assignments to D[K] trigger an exception. >>>> >>>> The idea here is to detect inconsistencies in the data. >>>> >>>> This is a data structure I often need. =C2=A0Before I re-invent the >>>> wheel, I thought I'd ask: is it already available? >>>> >>>> TIA! >>>> >>>> kynn >>> >>> Not sure if something like this already exists, but it would be >>> trivial to implement by overriding dict.__setitem__() > >>That is, if you don't care about .update() not preserving the >>invariant. > > The implication here is that .update() does not in turn use > .__setitem__(), which I find a bit surprising. The builtin types are allowed to take such shortcuts for performance reasons. Cheers, Chris -- http://blog.rebertia.com From dciphercomputing at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 16:05:10 2009 From: dciphercomputing at gmail.com (Simon) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 13:05:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Newbie Question regarding __init__() References: <6ccf5dbe-4b71-4159-88bb-c6a14aa785a9@k26g2000vbp.googlegroups.com> <01bcf8b8-687c-4bf4-acbb-b059a480d382@f33g2000vbm.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <20295b74-b630-47bd-b48d-9881bc6453a7@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com> On Aug 3, 11:00?pm, Dave Angel wrote: > Simon wrote: > > On Aug 2, 5:51 am, Dave Angel wrote: > > >> > >> I don't understand your comparison to Foxpro. ?read on. > > >> As your code was last posted, you don't need a return value from > >> init_Exec() ?Every function that doesn't have an explicit return will > >> return None. ?And None is interpreted as False in an "and" expression. ? > >> If you had an "if" around the whole thing, then you'd care. > > >> DaveA > > > All I meant by the FoxPro comment was the idea of using the equal sign > > without a variable to throw away the result. ?Also in FoxPro there is > > no such thing as automatically returning None. ?If there is no > > explicit return then True is returned. > > > Thanks I did not know that None is interpreted as False. > > > Simon > > To throw away the result of an expression in Python is even easier. ? > Just don't use it. > ? ? ? ?func1() and func2() > is a valid expression whose result is not used. ?And func2()'s result is > therefore irrelevant. ?But shortcircuiting means that func2() is only > called if func1() returned False (or something equivalent to it, like 0 > or an empty list) Thanks for telling me how Python throws away the result. Secondly my code works perfectly now that I am properly defining my methods using "self". From 1x7y2z9 at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 16:11:18 2009 From: 1x7y2z9 at gmail.com (1x7y2z9) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 13:11:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: boolean OR gotcha Message-ID: >>> 0 or None is None True >>> None or 0 is None False >>> None or 0 is 0 True Yes, this is explained in the docs: The expression x or y first evaluates x; if x is true, its value is returned; otherwise, y is evaluated and the resulting value is returned. Another one (also explainable): >>> 0 or None == None or 0 True # Above is same as (operator precedence): >>> 0 or (None == None) or 0 True # Here is something different: >>> (0 or None) == (None or 0) False From python at rcn.com Tue Aug 4 16:14:29 2009 From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 13:14:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: no-clobber dicts? References: <28309a6c-f6f2-4f11-852f-6e3f570253e7@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <435e2e2c-6f83-48e0-870e-febdc37c4c5c@x6g2000prc.googlegroups.com> [kj] > The implication here is that .update() does not in turn use > .__setitem__(), which I find a bit surprising. It's never wise to make assumptions about this sort of thing. Every method in a class or type is allowed to directly access or modify its private, internal data. The implementation is free to choose whether to limit that access to a few accessors (i.e. getitem, setitem, delitem, len) or to let all of the methods have direct access to the underlying data structure. Even if accessors were used, the choice would be arbitrary (perhaps delitem() gets implemented in terms of pop() or somesuch). This is a basic for OO programming. Unless the class documentation promises to use particular hooks, the implementation is free to change in any way that doesn't violate the published API (this is one of the benefits of encapsulation and abstract data types). In general, if a subclass is overriding, rather than extending, then it should override *every* method that could be affected. Raymond From mensanator at aol.com Tue Aug 4 16:21:30 2009 From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 13:21:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Is it possible to have the python color in the terminal ? References: Message-ID: On Aug 4, 1:53?pm, aurelien wrote: > Hello, > > I am under gNewSense, i am a newbbie on Python, i look for how change > the color terminal when python run. > at the step >>> all is in black and white. > Is it possible to have the python color in the terminal ? Depends on whether your terminal supports ANSI codes. For example, Windows does not, but the Cygwin terminal does. So, from Cygwin I can do >>> a = "\x1b[32m" >>> a '\x1b[32m' >>> print a >>> >>> >>> print b Traceback (most recent call last): File "", line 1, in NameError: name 'b' is not defined >>> And everything from the "print a" statement onwards is green. An ANSI code: an escape character (ESC, ASCII value 27, \x1b in hex) followed by the appropriate code sequence: Code: Meaning: \x1b[0m reset; clears all colors and styles (to white on black) \x1b[1m bold on (see below) \x1b[3m italics on \x1b[4m underline on \x1b[7m inverse on; reverses foreground & background colors \x1b[9m strikethrough on \x1b[22m bold off (see below) \x1b[23m italics off \x1b[24m underline off \x1b[27m inverse off \x1b[29m strikethrough off \x1b[30m set foreground color to black \x1b[31m set foreground color to red \x1b[32m set foreground color to green \x1b[33m set foreground color to yellow \x1b[34m set foreground color to blue \x1b[35m set foreground color to magenta (purple) \x1b[36m set foreground color to cyan \x1b[37m set foreground color to white \x1b[39m set foreground color to default (white) \x1b[40m set background color to black \x1b[41m set background color to red \x1b[42m set background color to green \x1b[43m set background color to yellow \x1b[44m set background color to blue \x1b[45m set background color to magenta (purple) \x1b[46m set background color to cyan \x1b[47m set background color to white \x1b[49m set background color to default (black) > > Thanks for your help. > > aurelien From apt.shansen at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 16:24:46 2009 From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 13:24:46 -0700 Subject: boolean OR gotcha In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7a9c25c20908041324l1a589c54q2f0f9666ab4ddd67@mail.gmail.com> > > > # Here is something different: > >>> (0 or None) == (None or 0) > False What is the actual problem? You quoted the docs, it seems very clear. (0 or None) would return None. (None or 0) would return 0. None is not equal to 0, of course. --S -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zuo at chopin.edu.pl Tue Aug 4 16:25:09 2009 From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 22:25:09 +0200 Subject: boolean OR gotcha In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 04-08-2009 o 22:11:18 1x7y2z9 <1x7y2z9 at gmail.com> wrote: > Another one (also explainable): >>>> 0 or None == None or 0 > True > # Above is same as (operator precedence): >>>> 0 or (None == None) or 0 > True > # Here is something different: >>>> (0 or None) == (None or 0) > False I don't see any problem here. The last is ok: None != 0. *j -- Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) From kushal.kumaran+python at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 16:25:55 2009 From: kushal.kumaran+python at gmail.com (Kushal Kumaran) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 01:55:55 +0530 Subject: Online payment module In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1e364c4e0908041325h5be577dq2363fba4c39af05b@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 12:41 AM, Sam Tregar wrote: > Hello all.? I'm considering building a module to provide a > cross-payment-gatewat API for making online payments.? In the Perl world we > have a module like this called Business::OnlinePayment > (http://search.cpan.org/~jasonk/Business-OnlinePayment-2.01/OnlinePayment.pm). > > Is there anything like this in Python?? My searches so far haven't turned up > anything.? If I don't find one I'll probably build one, covering PayPal and > Authorize.net to start.? If anyone is interested in discussing the project > and/or getting involved shoot me an email. > Not really familiar with this area, but have you seen these? http://code.google.com/p/pypaypal/ http://www.geteasyshop.com/front-page -- kushal From duane.kaufman at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 16:32:32 2009 From: duane.kaufman at gmail.com (DuaneKaufman) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 13:32:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Overlap in python References: Message-ID: <2e475887-0e8d-4b34-a918-1af720c166bf@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> On Aug 4, 1:15?pm, Jay Bird wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I've been trying to figure out a simple algorithm on how to combine a > list of parts that have 1D locations that overlap into a non- > overlapping list. ?For example, here would be my input: > > part name ? location > a ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?5-9 > b ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?7-10 > c ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?3-6 > d ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?15-20 > e ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?18-23 > > And here is what I need for an output: > part name ? location > c.a.b ? ? ? ? ? ?3-10 > d.e ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 15-23 > > I've tried various methods, which all fail. ?Does anyone have an idea > how to do this? > > Thank you very much! > Jay Hi, You have gotten some excellent feedback (all without installing anything extra to your Python install), but might I suggest the use of an interval arithmetic package to aid in this? For instance the interval module found at: http://members.cox.net/apoco/interval/ can be put to use: Given your data above: > part name location > a 5-9 > b 7-10 > c 3-6 from interval import Interval >>> a_int=Interval(5,9) >>> b_int=Interval(7,10) >>> c_int=Interval(3,6) >>> a_int.overlaps(b_int) True >>> a_int.overlaps(c_int) True >>> b_int.overlaps(c_int) False Duane From 1x7y2z9 at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 16:35:02 2009 From: 1x7y2z9 at gmail.com (1x7y2z9) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 13:35:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: boolean OR gotcha References: Message-ID: Did not intend that there was a problem. Just a gotcha or a fun little titbit ... maybe. :) On Aug 4, 1:25?pm, "Jan Kaliszewski" wrote: > 04-08-2009 o 22:11:18 1x7y2z9 <1x7y... at gmail.com> wrote: > > > Another one (also explainable): > >>>> 0 or None == None or 0 > > True > > # Above is same as (operator precedence): > >>>> 0 or (None == None) or 0 > > True > > # Here is something different: > >>>> (0 or None) == (None or 0) > > False > > I don't see any problem here. > > The last is ok: None != 0. > > *j > -- > Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) From maxkhesin at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 16:45:10 2009 From: maxkhesin at gmail.com (xamdam) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 13:45:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: SDMX format Message-ID: Does anyone know of python libs for writing SDMX XML format? http://www.SDMX.org/resources/SDMXML/schemas/v2_0/common thanks, max. From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com Tue Aug 4 16:54:16 2009 From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (Bearophile) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 13:54:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Overlap in python References: Message-ID: Jay Bird: > I've been trying to figure out a simple algorithm on how to combine a > list of parts that have 1D locations that overlap into a non- > overlapping list. For example, here would be my input: > > part name location > a 5-9 > b 7-10 > c 3-6 > d 15-20 > e 18-23 > > And here is what I need for an output: > part name location > c.a.b 3-10 > d.e 15-23 That's sometimes known as "The Set Union Problem on Intervals". Knowing the name of a problem is sometimes half the work :-) People have written papers on this. This is a O(N^2) force-brute algorithm, you can try it on your data: data = """part name location a 5-9 b 7-10 c 3-6 d 15-20 e 18-23""" pairs = map(str.split, data.splitlines()[1:]) triples = [map(int, i.split("-")) + [name] for (name, i) in pairs] overlap = lambda x1,y1, x2,y2: y1 >= x2 and x1 <= y2 results = [] for (x1,y1,name) in triples: for i, res in enumerate(results): if overlap(x1,y1, res[0],res[1]): results[i].append(name) results[i][0] = min(x1, res[0]) results[i][1] = max(y1, res[1]) break else: results.append([x1, y1, name]) print results # Output: [[3, 10, 'a', 'b', 'c'], [15, 23, 'd', 'e']] If you have have a lot of data then it will be too much slow, and you have to use a more complex algorithm. If your intervals are many, they are small, and they are spread in a not too much large range of possible values, you can create an integer array of indexes, and you can "paint" intervals on it. Bye, bearophile From gregor.lingl at aon.at Tue Aug 4 16:54:16 2009 From: gregor.lingl at aon.at (Gregor Lingl) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 22:54:16 +0200 Subject: Overlap in python In-Reply-To: <2e475887-0e8d-4b34-a918-1af720c166bf@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> References: <2e475887-0e8d-4b34-a918-1af720c166bf@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <4a78a005$0$2301$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> DuaneKaufman schrieb: > On Aug 4, 1:15 pm, Jay Bird wrote: ... > For instance the interval module found at: http://members.cox.net/apoco/interval/ > can be put to use: > > Given your data above: >> part name location >> a 5-9 >> b 7-10 >> c 3-6 > > from interval import Interval >>>> a_int=Interval(5,9) >>>> b_int=Interval(7,10) >>>> c_int=Interval(3,6) >>>> a_int.overlaps(b_int) > True >>>> a_int.overlaps(c_int) > True >>>> b_int.overlaps(c_int) > False As my proposed solution shows this approach can be done with on board means of Python (namely the set type). This would be quite different though, if you had floating point boundaries of the intervals. Regards, Gregor > > Duane From gregor.lingl at aon.at Tue Aug 4 16:57:59 2009 From: gregor.lingl at aon.at (Gregor Lingl) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 22:57:59 +0200 Subject: Overlap in python In-Reply-To: <4a78a005$0$2301$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> References: <2e475887-0e8d-4b34-a918-1af720c166bf@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> <4a78a005$0$2301$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> Message-ID: <4a78a0e5$0$2301$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> Gregor Lingl schrieb: > > As my proposed solution shows this approach can > be done with on board means of Python (namely > the set type). This would be quite different though, > if you had floating point boundaries of the intervals. > ... or if the intgers involved were very big :-( > Regards, > Gregor > >> >> Duane From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com Tue Aug 4 17:00:37 2009 From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (Bearophile) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 14:00:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Overlap in python References: <78d86d92-d373-4163-a418-600a3eb36ab3@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <1f284d33-256e-4a61-a59a-3c84a2cf00e6@18g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> Mark Dickinson: > # create sorted list of points where an interval is entered or left > transitions = [] > for name, (start, stop) in input: > ? ? transitions.extend([(start, 'Start', name), (stop, 'Stop', name)]) > transitions.sort() > > # scan list, accumulating blocks along the way. Oh, right, that's the usual simple solution. Silly me for showing the dumb quadratic solution :-) The "pixelmap" approach may be faster if you have tons of small intervals in a not too much large range. Bye, bearophile From dickinsm at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 17:22:01 2009 From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 14:22:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Overlap in python References: <78d86d92-d373-4163-a418-600a3eb36ab3@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <0bf0707a-d053-4481-af26-b2a524ab0964@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> On Aug 4, 9:03?pm, Mark Dickinson wrote: > for i, (pt, startend, name) in enumerate(transitions): Whoops. That line should just be: for pt, startend, name in transitions: The enumerate was accidentally left-over from a more complicated version. -- Mark From davea at ieee.org Tue Aug 4 17:34:23 2009 From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 17:34:23 -0400 Subject: Using Python to automate builds In-Reply-To: <84d9ae10-3aee-40a8-97ac-05799da0de64@f18g2000prf.googlegroups.com> References: <84d9ae10-3aee-40a8-97ac-05799da0de64@f18g2000prf.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <4A78A95F.9080209@ieee.org> Kosta wrote: > I am a Python newbie, tasked with automating (researching) building > Windows drivers using the WDK build environment. I've been looking > into Python for this (instead of writing a bunch of batch files). > > What I would like to do, is to open a cmd window, and start a Python > script. This script would then (based upon input arguments), build > different flavors of the driver (fre, chk, x86, x64) and do some post > processing (create cat files, sign, etc.). > > I was hoping to take advantage as much as possible of exisiting > infrastructure from the WDK. I am able to call setenv.bat and provide > all the input parameters. One of the things setenv.bat does is change > the path environment variable. However, this is not captured by > Python. I could duplicate the functionality, but I'd rather not. Is > there a way to capture all enviroment variable changes being made by a > batch file from Python? > > Thanks! > > An excellent question. It's been a few years, but last time I remember looking, setenv.bat only changed environment variables, and didn't change current directory, or run any external programs.. If that's still true, I figure you have three options. I don't know of any way to capture them explicitly. So here are the three choices I can come up with: 1) have the first python program invoke a new shell which runs setenv, then runs another python program. This second python program would be where all the work is done, invoking compilers, linkers etc. So the first python program invokes a batch file which looks something like: call setenv.bat arg1 python second.py arg2 arg3 arg4 arg5 This batch file could even be generated on the fly, just to simplify complex argument passing. 2) Have the python program invoke a batch file something like the following, and then analyze the resulting text file call setenv.bat arg1 set > tempfile.txt The contents of that tempfile could then be loaded into a dict similar to the usual environment. Now the Python script can continue, and just use these environment variable instead of the original set 3) Have the python program parse the setenv.bat instead of running it. There was a post on this newsgroup announcing pyKook. It's still in early form, but you might get ideas from it. I haven't looked, I just pasted the announcement to look at later. + I have released pyKook 0.0.2. + http://pypi.python.org/pypi/Kook/0.0.2 + http://www.kuwata-lab.com/kook/ + http://www.kuwata-lab.com/kook/pykook-users-guide.html Other possibilities: + http://pypi.python.org/pypi/vellum/ flexible small 'make' alternative + http://code.google.com/p/waf/ + http://code.google.com/p/fabricate/ DaveA From gdamjan at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 17:40:17 2009 From: gdamjan at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JTQsNC80ZjQsNC9INCT0LXQvtGA0LPQuNC10LLRgdC60Lg=?=) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 23:40:17 +0200 Subject: Problem in installing PyGreSQL References: <7aa29e790908032045p3b52a633m8d0e366a0f648b@mail.gmail.com> <7f0b4d2b1d5bd3f3057ead3b029059b9@preisshare.net> <20090804084856.b825967a.darcy@druid.net> <20090804095547.a5274e22.darcy@druid.net> Message-ID: <1fmmk6-htc.ln1@archaeopteryx.softver.org.mk> >> > By the way, you don't have to be super user to install PyGreSQL. >> > You just need SU if you want to install it system wide. PyGreSQL >> > doesn't require any special privileges to run. >> >> Right, but the packages install system-wide. That's why he could >> compile it himself but not use the package. > > Exactly so don't install the package. Do "python setup.py build" and > put the three files that are built (_pg.so, pg.py and pgdb.py) into > any directory and point PYTHONPATH to it. Or.. with Python 2.6 and up, you can do: python setup.py install --user and it will install the package in users own ~/.local/lib/python2.6/site-packages/ BTW that path is configurable with the PYTHONUSERBASE environment variable. see: http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0370/ -- ?????? ( http://softver.org.mk/damjan/ ) Spammers scratch here with a diamond to find my address: ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| From kosta.koeman at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 17:40:46 2009 From: kosta.koeman at gmail.com (Kosta) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 14:40:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Using Python to automate builds References: <84d9ae10-3aee-40a8-97ac-05799da0de64@f18g2000prf.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <48e9dcba-5309-4de6-b833-7abec18120e1@d9g2000prh.googlegroups.com> On Aug 4, 2:34?pm, Dave Angel wrote: > Kosta wrote: > > I am a Python newbie, tasked with automating (researching) building > > Windows drivers using the WDK build environment. ?I've been looking > > into Python for this (instead of writing a bunch of batch files). > > > What I would like to do, is to open a cmd window, and start a Python > > script. ?This script would then (based upon input arguments), build > > different flavors of the driver (fre, chk, x86, x64) and do some post > > processing (create cat files, sign, etc.). > > > I was hoping to take advantage as much as possible of exisiting > > infrastructure from the WDK. ?I am able to call setenv.bat and provide > > all the input parameters. ?One of the things setenv.bat does is change > > the path environment variable. ?However, this is not captured by > > Python. ?I could duplicate the functionality, but I'd rather not. ?Is > > there a way to capture all enviroment variable changes being made by a > > batch file from Python? > > > Thanks! > > An excellent question. ?It's been a few years, but last time I remember > looking, setenv.bat only changed environment variables, and didn't > change current directory, or run any external programs.. ?If that's > still true, I figure you have three options. > > I don't know of any way to capture them explicitly. ?So here are the > three choices I can come up with: > > 1) have the first python program invoke a new shell which runs setenv, > then runs another python program. ?This second python program would be > where all the work is done, invoking compilers, linkers etc. ?So the > first python program invokes a batch file which looks something like: > ? ? ? ? ? call setenv.bat ?arg1 > ? ? ? ? ? python second.py ? ?arg2 arg3 ?arg4 ?arg5 > > ?This batch file could even be generated on the fly, just to simplify > complex argument passing. > > 2) Have the python program invoke a batch file something like the > following, and then analyze the resulting text file > ? ? ? ? ? ?call setenv.bat ? arg1 > ? ? ? ? ? ?set > tempfile.txt > > The contents of that tempfile could then be loaded into a dict similar > to the usual environment. ?Now the Python script can continue, and just > use these environment variable instead of the original set > > 3) Have the python program parse the setenv.bat instead of running it. > > There was a post on this newsgroup announcing pyKook. ?It's still in > early form, but you might get ideas from it. ?I haven't looked, I just > pasted the announcement to look at later. > > + I have released pyKook 0.0.2. > +http://pypi.python.org/pypi/Kook/0.0.2 > +http://www.kuwata-lab.com/kook/ > +http://www.kuwata-lab.com/kook/pykook-users-guide.html > > Other possibilities: > + ?http://pypi.python.org/pypi/vellum/? ? ? flexible small 'make' > alternative > > + ?http://code.google.com/p/waf/ > > + ?http://code.google.com/p/fabricate/ > > DaveA- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Thanks Dave. I had thought about those three options, and was honestly hoping for a foruth (I know, some people are never satisfied ;). I'll look into pyKook. Thank you for your help. From philip at semanchuk.com Tue Aug 4 17:52:48 2009 From: philip at semanchuk.com (Philip Semanchuk) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 17:52:48 -0400 Subject: Using Python to automate builds In-Reply-To: <48e9dcba-5309-4de6-b833-7abec18120e1@d9g2000prh.googlegroups.com> References: <84d9ae10-3aee-40a8-97ac-05799da0de64@f18g2000prf.googlegroups.com> <48e9dcba-5309-4de6-b833-7abec18120e1@d9g2000prh.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: On Aug 4, 2009, at 5:40 PM, Kosta wrote: > On Aug 4, 2:34 pm, Dave Angel wrote: >> >> + I have released pyKook 0.0.2. >> +http://pypi.python.org/pypi/Kook/0.0.2 >> +http://www.kuwata-lab.com/kook/ >> +http://www.kuwata-lab.com/kook/pykook-users-guide.html >> >> Other possibilities: >> + http://pypi.python.org/pypi/vellum/ flexible small 'make' >> alternative >> >> + http://code.google.com/p/waf/ >> >> + http://code.google.com/p/fabricate/ >> >> DaveA- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > Thanks Dave. I had thought about those three options, and was > honestly hoping for a foruth (I know, some people are never > satisfied ;). I'll look into pyKook. Thank you for your help. Poof! Your wish is granted! =) http://www.scons.org/ Dunno if you'll find it better, worse or different than the alternatives, but there it is. have fun P From no.email at please.post Tue Aug 4 17:57:25 2009 From: no.email at please.post (kj) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 21:57:25 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Overlap in python References: Message-ID: In Jay Bird writes: >Hi everyone, >I've been trying to figure out a simple algorithm on how to combine a >list of parts that have 1D locations that overlap into a non- >overlapping list. For example, here would be my input: >part name location >a 5-9 >b 7-10 >c 3-6 >d 15-20 >e 18-23 >And here is what I need for an output: >part name location >c.a.b 3-10 >d.e 15-23 >I've tried various methods, which all fail. Does anyone have an idea >how to do this? This problem is basically isomorphic to the problem of finding connected components in an undirected graph. If your parts are nodes in a graph, there's an edge between them if they overlap. The following is probably overkill, but it works. It uses the module pygraph, which you can download from http://code.google.com/p/python-graph/ The real work is done by its connected_components function. import pygraph from pygraph.algorithms.accessibility import connected_components class Part(object): def __init__(self, name, start, finish): self.name = name if start >= finish: raise ValueError("start must be strictly less than finish") self.start = start self.finish = finish def __str__(self): return self.name def combine_parts(parts): gr = pygraph.graph() gr.add_nodes(parts) # connect the nodes for i in range(len(parts) - 1): part_i = parts[i] for j in range(i + 1, len(parts)): part_j = parts[j] if (part_j.start <= part_i.finish <= part_j.finish or part_i.start <= part_j.finish <= part_i.finish): gr.add_edge(part_i, part_j) cc = connected_components(gr) c2n = {} # build connected components as lists for k, v in cc.items(): c2n.setdefault(v, []).append(k) ret = [] for nodes in c2n.values(): nodes.sort(key=lambda x: x.start) name = '.'.join(x.name for x in nodes) start = min(x.start for x in nodes) finish = max(x.finish for x in nodes) ret.append((name, start, finish)) return ret if __name__ == '__main__': data = [Part('a', 5, 9), Part('b', 7, 10), Part('c', 3, 6), Part('d', 15, 20), Part('e', 18, 23)] print combine_parts(data) When you run the script above, the output is [('c.a.b', 3, 10), ('d.e', 15, 23)] HTH, kynn From python at mrabarnett.plus.com Tue Aug 4 18:09:33 2009 From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 23:09:33 +0100 Subject: Overlap in python In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A78B19D.4020306@mrabarnett.plus.com> Jay Bird wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I've been trying to figure out a simple algorithm on how to combine a > list of parts that have 1D locations that overlap into a non- > overlapping list. For example, here would be my input: > > part name location > a 5-9 > b 7-10 > c 3-6 > d 15-20 > e 18-23 > > And here is what I need for an output: > part name location > c.a.b 3-10 > d.e 15-23 > > I've tried various methods, which all fail. Does anyone have an idea > how to do this? > >>> parts = [(5, 9, "a"), (7, 10, "b"), (3, 6, "c"), (15, 20, "d"), (18, 23, "e")] >>> parts.sort() >>> parts [(3, 6, 'c'), (5, 9, 'a'), (7, 10, 'b'), (15, 20, 'd'), (18, 23, 'e')] >>> # Merge overlapping intervals. >>> pos = 1 >>> while pos < len(parts): # Merge the pair in parts[pos - 1 : pos + 1] if they overlap. p, q = parts[pos - 1 : pos + 1] if p[1] >= q[0]: parts[pos - 1 : pos + 1] = [(p[0], max(p[1], q[1]), p[2] + "." + q[2])] else: # They don't overlap, so try the next pair. pos += 1 >>> parts [(3, 10, 'c.a.b'), (15, 23, 'd.e')] From no.email at please.post Tue Aug 4 18:10:18 2009 From: no.email at please.post (kj) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 22:10:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Overlap in python References: <78d86d92-d373-4163-a418-600a3eb36ab3@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: In <78d86d92-d373-4163-a418-600a3eb36ab3 at o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> Mark Dickinson writes: >On Aug 4, 7:15=A0pm, Jay Bird wrote: >> Hi everyone, >> >> I've been trying to figure out a simple algorithm on how to combine a >> list of parts that have 1D locations that overlap into a non- >> overlapping list. =A0For example, here would be my input: >> >> part name =A0 location >> a =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A05-9 >> b =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A07-10 >> c =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A03-6 >> d =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A015-20 >> e =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A018-23 >> >> And here is what I need for an output: >> part name =A0 location >> c.a.b =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A03-10 >> d.e =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 15-23 >> >> I've tried various methods, which all fail. =A0Does anyone have an idea >> how to do this? >Here's an approach that might work. Turning it into a sensible >function and parsing input/massaging output properly are left >as an exercise. Blocks that just touch (e.g. (3, 6) then (6, 9)) >are amalgamated; if this isn't what you want, and they should >be treated as separate instead, then replace 'Stop' with 'Finish' >(or any other string that sorts before 'Start'). >input =3D [ > ('a', (5, 9)), > ('b', (7, 10)), > ('c', (3, 6)), > ('d', (15, 20)), > ('e', (18, 23)), > ] ># create sorted list of points where an interval is entered or left >transitions =3D [] >for name, (start, stop) in input: > transitions.extend([(start, 'Start', name), (stop, 'Stop', name)]) >transitions.sort() ># scan list, accumulating blocks along the way. >count =3D 0 >for i, (pt, startend, name) in enumerate(transitions): > if startend =3D=3D 'Start': > if not count: > start =3D pt > names =3D [] > count +=3D 1 > names.append(name) > else: > count -=3D 1 > if not count: > print '.'.join(names), "%s--%s" % (start, pt) Very cool. kynn From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com Tue Aug 4 18:10:33 2009 From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (Bearophile) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 15:10:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Overlap in python References: Message-ID: kj: > ? ? # connect the nodes > ? ? for i in range(len(parts) - 1): > ? ? ? ? part_i = parts[i] > ? ? ? ? for j in range(i + 1, len(parts)): Note that's O(N^2), see the O(sort) standard solution by Mark Dickinson. Bye, bearophile From ryniek90 at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 18:20:21 2009 From: ryniek90 at gmail.com (ryniek90) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 00:20:21 +0200 Subject: How to write replace string for object which will be substituted? [regexp] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A78B425.2010604@gmail.com> Hi. I started learning regexp, and some things goes well, but most of them still not. I've got problem with some regexp. Better post code here: " >>> import re >>> mail = '\nname at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com\n' >>> mail '\nname at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com\n' >>> print mail name at mail.com name1 [at] mail [dot] com name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com >>> maail = re.sub('^\n|$\n', '', mail) >>> print maail name at mail.com name1 [at] mail [dot] com name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com >>> maail = re.sub(' ', '', maail) >>> print maail name at mail.com name1[at]mail[dot]com name2[$at$]mail[$dot$]com >>> maail = re.sub('\[at\]|\[\$at\$\]', '@', maail) >>> print maail name at mail.com name1 at mail[dot]com name2 at mail[$dot$]com >>> maail = re.sub('\[dot\]|\[\$dot\$\]', '.', maail) >>> print maail name at mail.com name1 at mail.com name2 at mail.com >>> #How must i write the replace string to replace all this regexp's with just ONE command, in string 'mail' ? >>> maail = re.sub('^\n|$\n| |\[at\]|\[\$at\$\]|\[dot\]|\[\$dot\$\]', *?*, mail) " How must i write that replace pattern (look at question mark), to maek that substituion work? I didn't saw anything helpful while reading Re doc and HowTo (from Python Doc). I tried with 'MatchObject.group()' but something gone wrong - didn't wrote it right. Is there more user friendly HowTo for Python Re, than this? I'm new to programming an regexp, sorry for inconvenience. From jay.bird0804 at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 18:21:13 2009 From: jay.bird0804 at gmail.com (Jay Bird) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 15:21:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Overlap in python References: <4a7892c2$0$2297$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> Message-ID: Hi everyone, I wanted to thank you all for your help and *excellent* discussion. I was able to utilize and embed the script by Grigor Lingl in the 6th post of this discussion to get my program to work very quickly (I had to do about 20 comparisons per data bin, with over 40K bins in total). I am involved in genomic analysis research and this problem comes up a lot and I was surprised to not have been able to find a clear way to solve it. I will also look through all the tips in this thread, I have a feeling they may come in handy for future use! Thank you again, Jay From mensanator at aol.com Tue Aug 4 18:47:16 2009 From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 15:47:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Overlap in python References: <4a7892c2$0$2297$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> Message-ID: <99c721fe-57fa-4508-9acb-2399ac81b9bf@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> On Aug 4, 2:57?pm, Gregor Lingl wrote: > Jay Bird schrieb: > > > > > > > Hi everyone, > > > I've been trying to figure out a simple algorithm on how to combine a > > list of parts that have 1D locations that overlap into a non- > > overlapping list. ?For example, here would be my input: > > > part name ? location > > a ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?5-9 > > b ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?7-10 > > c ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?3-6 > > d ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?15-20 > > e ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?18-23 > > > And here is what I need for an output: > > part name ? location > > c.a.b ? ? ? ? ? ?3-10 > > d.e ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 15-23 > > Suppose you have your data given as a dictionary: > > data = {'a':(5,9), > ? ? ? ? ?'b':(7,10), > ? ? ? ? ?'c':(3,6), > ? ? ? ? ?'d':(15,20), > ? ? ? ? ?'e':(18,23)} > > Then the following not particularly elegant > but very simple and straight forward > algorithm will solve your problem: > > def values(key): > ? ? ?return set(range(data[key][0], data[key][1]+1)) > > keys = list(data.keys()) > result = [] > while keys: > ? ? ?k = [keys[0]] > ? ? ?keys = keys[1:] > ? ? ?v = values(k[0]) > ? ? ?for l in keys[:]: > ? ? ? ? ?if v.intersection(values(l)): > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?v.update(values(l)) > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?k.append(l) > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?keys.remove(l) > ? ? ?result.append((k,v)) > > # print(result) ## if you like > > for k, v in result: > ? ? ?print(".".join(sorted(k)), "%d-%d" % (min(v), max(v))) > > Regards, > Gregor > > > > > I've tried various methods, which all fail. ?Does anyone have an idea > > how to do this? > > > Thank you very much! > > Jay I was thinking sets, too. import random def overlap(): merge_count = 0 datam.append(data.pop(0)) while len(data)>0: d0 = data.pop(0) dmi = 0 dmtemp = datam[:] while d0: dmtest = d0[1].intersection(dmtemp[dmi][1]) #print(d0,dmtemp[dmi],dmtest) if len(dmtest)>0: # overlap dmtest = d0[1].union(dmtemp[dmi][1]) datam[dmi] = (d0[0]+dmtemp[dmi][0],dmtest) d0 = None dmi = 0 merge_count += 1 else: dmi += 1 if dmi == len(dmtemp): datam.append(d0) d0 = None return merge_count # repeat until 0 returned ## OP data ##data=[] ##data.append(('a',set([i for i in range(5,9+1)]))) ##data.append(('b',set([i for i in range(7,10+1)]))) ##data.append(('c',set([i for i in range(3,6+1)]))) ##data.append(('d',set([i for i in range(15,20+1)]))) ##data.append(('e',set([i for i in range(18,23+1)]))) ##datam = [] ## ##print() ##for j in data: print(j) ##print() ## ## ##overlap() ## ##for i in datam: ## print(i[0],min(i[1]),max(i[1])) ## ## ('a', {8, 9, 5, 6, 7}) ## ('b', {8, 9, 10, 7}) ## ('c', {3, 4, 5, 6}) ## ('d', {15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20}) ## ('e', {18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23}) ## ## cba 3 10 ## ed 15 23 ## special case - repeat overlap test until no merges data = [('A', {79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86}), ('B', {96, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95}), ('C', {21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28}), ('D', {64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 62, 63}), ('E', {72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79}), ('F', {65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72}), ('G', {11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18}), ('H', {24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31}), ('I', {32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 31}), ('J', {81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88})] datam = [] ## ('A', {55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62}) ## ('B', {64, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63}) ## ('C', {10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17}) ## ('D', {32, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31}) ## ('E', {54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61}) ## ('F', {64, 65, 66, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63}) ## ('G', {41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48}) ## ('H', {67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74}) ## ('I', {55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62}) ## ('J', {64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 62, 63}) ## ## JIFEBA 54 69 ## C 10 17 ## D 25 32 ## G 41 48 ## H 67 74 <--- NFG overlaps JIFEBA print() for j in data: print(j) print() merges = 1 # corrects above while merges > 0: merges = overlap() print(merges) if merges>0: data = datam[:] datam = [] for i in datam: print(i[0],min(i[1]),max(i[1])) ## corrected ## ## ('A', {79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86}) ## ('B', {96, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95}) ## ('C', {21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28}) ## ('D', {64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 62, 63}) ## ('E', {72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79}) ## ('F', {65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72}) ## ('G', {11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18}) ## ('H', {24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31}) ## ('I', {32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 31}) ## ('J', {81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88}) ## ## 5 ## 1 ## 0 ## DJFEA 62 88 ## B 89 96 ## IHC 21 38 ## G 11 18 # random sequences data = [] for j in range(12): q = random.randint(0,90) r = q+12 data.append((chr(j+65),set([x for x in range(q,r)]))) datam = [] print() for j in data: print(j) print() merges = 1 # corrects above while merges > 0: merges = overlap() print(merges) if merges>0: data = datam[:] datam = [] for i in datam: print(i[0],min(i[1]),max(i[1])) ## ('A', {3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10}) ## ('B', {76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83}) ## ('C', {43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50}) ## ('D', {42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49}) ## ('E', {23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30}) ## ('F', {49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56}) ## ('G', {76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83}) ## ('H', {1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8}) ## ('I', {37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44}) ## ('J', {83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90}) ## ## 6 ## 0 ## HA 1 10 ## JGB 76 90 ## IFDC 37 56 ## E 23 30 ## ('A', {64, 65, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63}) ## ('B', {34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45}) ## ('C', {16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27}) ## ('D', {70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81}) ## ('E', {64, 65, 66, 67, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63}) ## ('F', {34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45}) ## ('G', {0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11}) ## ('H', {64, 65, 66, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63}) ## ('I', {44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55}) ## ('J', {64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63}) ## ('K', {96, 97, 98, 99, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95}) ## ('L', {96, 97, 98, 99, 100, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95}) ## ## 6 ## 1 ## 0 ## FBJIHEA 34 68 ## C 16 27 ## D 70 81 ## G 0 11 ## LK 88 100 From python at mrabarnett.plus.com Tue Aug 4 18:55:36 2009 From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 23:55:36 +0100 Subject: How to write replace string for object which will be substituted? [regexp] In-Reply-To: <4A78B425.2010604@gmail.com> References: <4A78B425.2010604@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A78BC68.2020601@mrabarnett.plus.com> ryniek90 wrote: > Hi. > I started learning regexp, and some things goes well, but most of them > still not. > > I've got problem with some regexp. Better post code here: > > " > >>> import re > >>> mail = '\nname at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] > mail [$dot$] com\n' > >>> mail > '\nname at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] > com\n' > >>> print mail > > name at mail.com > name1 [at] mail [dot] com > name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com > > >>> maail = re.sub('^\n|$\n', '', mail) > >>> print maail > name at mail.com > name1 [at] mail [dot] com > name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com > >>> maail = re.sub(' ', '', maail) > >>> print maail > name at mail.com > name1[at]mail[dot]com > name2[$at$]mail[$dot$]com > >>> maail = re.sub('\[at\]|\[\$at\$\]', '@', maail) > >>> print maail > name at mail.com > name1 at mail[dot]com > name2 at mail[$dot$]com > >>> maail = re.sub('\[dot\]|\[\$dot\$\]', '.', maail) > >>> print maail > name at mail.com > name1 at mail.com > name2 at mail.com > >>> #How must i write the replace string to replace all this regexp's > with just ONE command, in string 'mail' ? > >>> maail = re.sub('^\n|$\n| |\[at\]|\[\$at\$\]|\[dot\]|\[\$dot\$\]', > *?*, mail) > " > > How must i write that replace pattern (look at question mark), to maek > that substituion work? I didn't saw anything helpful while reading Re > doc and HowTo (from Python Doc). I tried with 'MatchObject.group()' but > something gone wrong - didn't wrote it right. > Is there more user friendly HowTo for Python Re, than this? > > I'm new to programming an regexp, sorry for inconvenience. > I don't think you can do it in one regex, nor would I want to. Just use the string's replace() method. >>> mail = '\nname at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com\n' >>> mail '\nname at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com\n' >>> print mail name at mail.com name1 [at] mail [dot] com name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com >>> maail = mail.strip() name at mail.com name1 [at] mail [dot] com name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com >>> maail = maail.replace(' ', '') >>> print maail name at mail.com name1[at]mail[dot]com name2[$at$]mail[$dot$]com >>> maail = maail.replace('[at]', '@').replace('[$at$]', '@') >>> print maail name at mail.com name1 at mail[dot]com name2 at mail[$dot$]com >>> maail = maail.replace('[dot]', '.').replace('[$dot$]', '.') >>> print maail name at mail.com name1 at mail.com name2 at mail.com From sam at tregar.com Tue Aug 4 19:50:29 2009 From: sam at tregar.com (Sam Tregar) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 19:50:29 -0400 Subject: Online payment module In-Reply-To: <1e364c4e0908041325h5be577dq2363fba4c39af05b@mail.gmail.com> References: <1e364c4e0908041325h5be577dq2363fba4c39af05b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 4:25 PM, Kushal Kumaran < kushal.kumaran+python at gmail.com > wrote: > > Not really familiar with this area, but have you seen these? > > http://code.google.com/p/pypaypal/ > http://www.geteasyshop.com/front-page > Thanks, but neither of these are remotely what I'm looking for! The first is an API for accessing PayPal, but not the one I'll be using - this one has only one release and hasn't been updated in over a year, looks basically useless. The other is a full-fledged e-commerce application, not a code library. -sam -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alex at moreati.org.uk Tue Aug 4 20:30:05 2009 From: alex at moreati.org.uk (Alex Willmer) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 17:30:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: New implementation of re module References: Message-ID: <380ee69c-b498-4f99-8bca-2f680dd0171b@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> On Jul 27, 5:34?pm, MRAB wrote: > Hi all, > > I've been working on a new implementation of the re module. The details > are athttp://bugs.python.org/issue2636, specifically fromhttp://bugs.python.org/issue2636#msg90954. I've included a .pyd file for > Python 2.6 on Windows if you want to try it out. Firstly Matthew, thank you for all your work on this. It brings some very nice regex features to Python. I've used Christopher Arndt's post as a basis and created a package from you latest upload (issue2636-20090804.zip), which builds for Python 2.5 and 2.6. I'd like to see this on PyPI, so it's easier to install the module and your work gets wider exposure. Would this be alright and would you prefer to have control of the upload, as this is your work? Below is the setup.py, the unicodedata_db.h files are taken from the appropriate branches on svn.python.org #!/usr/bin/env python import shutil import sys from distutils.core import setup, Extension MAJOR, MINOR = sys.version_info[:2] # Copy appropriate unicodedata_db.h, not found in published includes if (MAJOR, MINOR) == (2, 6): shutil.copy('Python26/unicodedata_db.h', './') elif (MAJOR, MINOR) == (2, 5): shutil.copy('Python25/unicodedata_db.h', './') else: print "WARNING: No unicodedata_db.h prepared." setup( name='regex', version='20080804', description='Alternate regular expression module, to replace re.', author='Matthew Barnett', author_email='python at mrabarnett.nospam.plus.com', # Obsfucated url='http://bugs.python.org/issue2636', py_modules = ['regex'], ext_modules=[Extension('_regex', ['_regex.c'])], ) Sincerely, Alex Willmer From missive at hotmail.com Tue Aug 4 21:01:14 2009 From: missive at hotmail.com (Lee Harr) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 05:31:14 +0430 Subject: [ANNC] pybotwar-0.4 Message-ID: pybotwar is a fun and educational game where players create computer programs to control simulated robots to compete in a battle arena. http://pybotwar.googlecode.com/ pybotwar uses pybox2d for the physical simulation, and uses pygame and pygsear for the visualization. pybotwar is released under GPLv3. Changes in pybotwar-0.4: - added display of robot status - added configuration file for easier testing of various options - remove / don't remove dead robots - robot max health - physics values (force, torque, mass, bullet speed) - add non graphics mode (for much faster resolution of battles) - fixed cannon heating going below zero _________________________________________________________________ Drag n? drop?Get easy photo sharing with Windows Live? Photos. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/products/photos.aspx From koranthala at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 21:29:17 2009 From: koranthala at gmail.com (koranthala) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 18:29:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: My first wxPython App with Twisted Message-ID: Hi, I am creating the first GUI app (wxPython based) using Twisted. I am facing an issue which I cannot seem to solve/understand due to lack of trace or anything. I had a big app written on twisted and now I am creating a login screen to the app. The app used to work without any issues. I added the login screen and the login screen comes up. But then everything freezes up. I have to force quit the python application to get anything back. Can anyone help me solve it? The code is as follows: import wx import os import logging from twisted.internet import wxreactor wxreactor.install() from twisted.internet import reactor #Called only after wxreactor.install() from twisted.internet.task import LoopingCall import clientapp def opj(path): """ Convert paths to the platform-specific separator """ st = apply(os.path.join, tuple(path.split('/'))) if path.startswith('/'): st = '/' + st return st class APPApp(wx.App): def OnInit(self): self.frame = APPFrame(None, -1, " APP Login", size=(200, 150)) self.panel = APPPanel(self.frame,-1) #client.run method does the verification etc along with other items client = clientapp.setup_app() call = LoopingCall(client.run) call.start(.51) return True def main(): app = APPApp(0) reactor.registerWxApp(app) try: reactor.run() except StandardError: raise class APPPanel(wx.Panel): """ APP GUI PANEL The panel in which the user name and password is typed. @var ID_LOGIN: Login buttons id. When this button is clicked, the data is stored for logging. """ ID_LOGIN = wx.NewId() def __init__(self, parent, id): self.parent = parent wx.Panel.__init__(self, parent, id, size=(200,150)) self.quote = wx.StaticText(self, -1, "APP Login",wx.Point(60, 10)) wx.StaticText(self, wx.ID_ANY, "User Name ", wx.Point(20, 33)) wx.StaticText(self, wx.ID_ANY, "Password ", wx.Point(20, 58)) self.usernameBox = wx.TextCtrl(self, wx.ID_ANY, "", wx.Point(80, 31), wx.Size(100, wx.ID_ANY)) self.usernameBox.SetFocus() self.passwordBox = wx.TextCtrl(self, wx.ID_ANY, "", wx.Point(80, 56), wx.Size(100, wx.ID_ANY), style=wx.TE_PASSWORD) self.button =wx.Button(self, self.ID_LOGIN, "Login", wx.Point (60, 88)) wx.EVT_BUTTON(parent, self.ID_LOGIN, self.on_login) def on_login(self, event): username = self.usernameBox.GetString(0, 128) password = self.passwordBox.GetString(0, 128) if username and password: self.parent.on_login_click(username, password) class APPTaskBarIcon(wx.TaskBarIcon): ''' TaskBar Icon So that the application is always alive on the taskbar. 3 operations are possible, DoubleClick on the taskbar would bring up the window, right click will bring up options to restore or exit the tool. ''' TBMENU_RESTORE = wx.NewId() TBMENU_CLOSE = wx.NewId() def __init__(self, frame): wx.TaskBarIcon.__init__(self) self.frame = frame # Set the image icon = self.MakeIcon(self.frame.get_image()) self.SetIcon(icon, "APP") self.imgidx = 1 # bind some events self.Bind(wx.EVT_TASKBAR_LEFT_DCLICK, self.OnTaskBarActivate) self.Bind(wx.EVT_MENU, self.OnTaskBarActivate, id=self.TBMENU_RESTORE) self.Bind(wx.EVT_MENU, self.OnTaskBarClose, id=self.TBMENU_CLOSE) def CreatePopupMenu(self): """ Right Click Popup Menu This method is called by the base class when it needs to popup the menu for the default EVT_RIGHT_DOWN event. """ menu = wx.Menu() menu.Append(self.TBMENU_RESTORE, "Restore Window") menu.Append(self.TBMENU_CLOSE, "Exit APP") return menu def MakeIcon(self, img): """ Return the generated Icon. This function is required because various platforms have different requirements for the icon size. """ if "wxMSW" in wx.PlatformInfo: img = img.Scale(16, 16) elif "wxGTK" in wx.PlatformInfo: img = img.Scale(22, 22) icon = wx.IconFromBitmap(img.ConvertToBitmap() ) return icon def OnTaskBarActivate(self, evt): ''' Activation code - say DoubleClick etc. It raises the window ''' if self.frame.IsIconized(): self.frame.Iconize(False) if not self.frame.IsShown(): self.frame.Show(True) self.frame.Raise() def OnTaskBarClose(self, evt): ''' On right click and close, the frame itself is closed ''' wx.CallAfter(self.frame.Close) class APPFrame(wx.Frame): def __init__(self, parent, id, title, size=None): wx.Frame.__init__(self, parent, id, title, size=size, pos=wx.Point(400, 300)) icon = self.get_icon() self.SetIcon(icon) self.tbicon = APPTaskBarIcon(self) self.Show(True) self.Bind(wx.EVT_CLOSE, self.OnCloseWindow) self.Bind(wx.EVT_ICONIZE, self.OnIconify) def on_login_click(self, username, password): self.Hide() def OnCloseWindow(self, event): if self.tbicon is not None: self.tbicon.Destroy() event.Skip() def OnIconify(self, event): self.Hide() def get_image(self): img= wx.Image(opj('client.ico'), wx.BITMAP_TYPE_ICO) return img def get_icon(self): img = self.get_image() icon = wx.IconFromBitmap(img.ConvertToBitmap() ) return icon if __name__ == '__main__': main() -------------- If somebody can help me out, I would be much obliged. From koranthala at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 21:39:49 2009 From: koranthala at gmail.com (koranthala) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 18:39:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: My first wxPython App with Twisted References: Message-ID: <15ec22f4-7bcf-4a7f-81e0-ad98004adde4@p36g2000prn.googlegroups.com> On Aug 5, 6:29?am, koranthala wrote: > Hi, > ? ?I am creating the first GUI app (wxPython based) using Twisted. > ? ?I am facing an issue which I cannot seem to solve/understand due > to lack of trace or anything. > > ? ?I had a big app written on twisted and now I am creating a login > screen to the app. > ? ?The app used to work without any issues. I added the login screen > and the login screen comes up. > ? ? But then everything freezes up. I have to force quit the python > application to get anything back. Can anyone help me solve it? > > ? ?The code is as follows: > > import wx > import os > import logging > > from twisted.internet import wxreactor > wxreactor.install() > from twisted.internet import reactor #Called only after > wxreactor.install() > from twisted.internet.task import LoopingCall > > import clientapp > > def opj(path): > ? ?""" Convert paths to the platform-specific separator """ > ? ?st = apply(os.path.join, tuple(path.split('/'))) > ? ?if path.startswith('/'): > ? ? ? ?st = '/' + st > ? ?return st > > class APPApp(wx.App): > ? ?def OnInit(self): > ? ? ? ?self.frame = APPFrame(None, -1, " APP Login", size=(200, 150)) > ? ? ? ?self.panel = APPPanel(self.frame,-1) > ? ? ? ?#client.run method does the verification etc along with other > items > ? ? ? ?client = clientapp.setup_app() > ? ? ? ?call = LoopingCall(client.run) > ? ? ? ?call.start(.51) > ? ? ? ?return True > > def main(): > ? ?app = APPApp(0) > ? ?reactor.registerWxApp(app) > ? ?try: > ? ? ? ?reactor.run() > ? ?except StandardError: > ? ? ? ?raise > > class APPPanel(wx.Panel): > ? ?""" APP GUI PANEL > > ? ?The panel in which the user name and password is typed. > ? ?@var ID_LOGIN: Login buttons id. When this button is clicked, the > data > ? ? ? ?is stored for logging. > > ? ?""" > ? ?ID_LOGIN = wx.NewId() > > ? ?def __init__(self, parent, id): > ? ? ? ?self.parent = parent > ? ? ? ?wx.Panel.__init__(self, parent, id, size=(200,150)) > ? ? ? ?self.quote = wx.StaticText(self, -1, "APP Login",wx.Point(60, > 10)) > ? ? ? ?wx.StaticText(self, wx.ID_ANY, "User Name ", wx.Point(20, 33)) > ? ? ? ?wx.StaticText(self, wx.ID_ANY, "Password ", wx.Point(20, 58)) > ? ? ? ?self.usernameBox = wx.TextCtrl(self, wx.ID_ANY, "", > wx.Point(80, 31), wx.Size(100, wx.ID_ANY)) > ? ? ? ?self.usernameBox.SetFocus() > ? ? ? ?self.passwordBox = wx.TextCtrl(self, wx.ID_ANY, "", > wx.Point(80, 56), wx.Size(100, wx.ID_ANY), style=wx.TE_PASSWORD) > ? ? ? ?self.button =wx.Button(self, self.ID_LOGIN, "Login", wx.Point > (60, 88)) > ? ? ? ?wx.EVT_BUTTON(parent, self.ID_LOGIN, self.on_login) > > ? ?def on_login(self, event): > ? ? ? ?username = self.usernameBox.GetString(0, 128) > ? ? ? ?password = self.passwordBox.GetString(0, 128) > ? ? ? ?if username and password: > ? ? ? ? ? ?self.parent.on_login_click(username, password) > > class APPTaskBarIcon(wx.TaskBarIcon): > ? ?''' TaskBar Icon > > ? ?So that the application is always alive on the taskbar. > ? ?3 operations are possible, DoubleClick on the taskbar would bring > up the > ? ?window, right click will bring up options to restore or exit the > tool. > > ? ?''' > ? ?TBMENU_RESTORE = wx.NewId() > ? ?TBMENU_CLOSE ? = wx.NewId() > > ? ?def __init__(self, frame): > ? ? ? ?wx.TaskBarIcon.__init__(self) > ? ? ? ?self.frame = frame > ? ? ? ?# Set the image > ? ? ? ?icon = self.MakeIcon(self.frame.get_image()) > ? ? ? ?self.SetIcon(icon, "APP") > ? ? ? ?self.imgidx = 1 > ? ? ? ?# bind some events > ? ? ? ?self.Bind(wx.EVT_TASKBAR_LEFT_DCLICK, self.OnTaskBarActivate) > ? ? ? ?self.Bind(wx.EVT_MENU, self.OnTaskBarActivate, > id=self.TBMENU_RESTORE) > ? ? ? ?self.Bind(wx.EVT_MENU, self.OnTaskBarClose, > id=self.TBMENU_CLOSE) > > ? ?def CreatePopupMenu(self): > ? ? ? ?""" Right Click Popup Menu > > ? ? ? ?This method is called by the base class when it needs to popup > ? ? ? ?the menu for the default EVT_RIGHT_DOWN event. > > ? ? ? ?""" > ? ? ? ?menu = wx.Menu() > ? ? ? ?menu.Append(self.TBMENU_RESTORE, "Restore Window") > ? ? ? ?menu.Append(self.TBMENU_CLOSE, "Exit APP") > ? ? ? ?return menu > > ? ?def MakeIcon(self, img): > ? ? ? ?""" Return the generated Icon. > > ? ? ? ?This function is required because various platforms have > different > ? ? ? ?requirements for the icon size. > > ? ? ? ?""" > ? ? ? ?if "wxMSW" in wx.PlatformInfo: > ? ? ? ? ? ?img = img.Scale(16, 16) > ? ? ? ?elif "wxGTK" in wx.PlatformInfo: > ? ? ? ? ? ?img = img.Scale(22, 22) > ? ? ? ?icon = wx.IconFromBitmap(img.ConvertToBitmap() ) > ? ? ? ?return icon > > ? ?def OnTaskBarActivate(self, evt): > ? ? ? ?''' Activation code - say DoubleClick etc. It raises the window > ''' > ? ? ? ?if self.frame.IsIconized(): > ? ? ? ? ? ?self.frame.Iconize(False) > ? ? ? ?if not self.frame.IsShown(): > ? ? ? ? ? ?self.frame.Show(True) > ? ? ? ?self.frame.Raise() > > ? ?def OnTaskBarClose(self, evt): > ? ? ? ?''' On right click and close, the frame itself is closed ''' > ? ? ? ?wx.CallAfter(self.frame.Close) > > class APPFrame(wx.Frame): > ? ?def __init__(self, parent, id, title, size=None): > ? ? ? ?wx.Frame.__init__(self, parent, id, title, > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?size=size, pos=wx.Point(400, 300)) > ? ? ? ?icon = self.get_icon() > ? ? ? ?self.SetIcon(icon) > ? ? ? ?self.tbicon = APPTaskBarIcon(self) > ? ? ? ?self.Show(True) > ? ? ? ?self.Bind(wx.EVT_CLOSE, self.OnCloseWindow) > ? ? ? ?self.Bind(wx.EVT_ICONIZE, self.OnIconify) > > ? ?def on_login_click(self, username, password): > ? ? ? ?self.Hide() > > ? ?def OnCloseWindow(self, event): > ? ? ? ?if self.tbicon is not None: > ? ? ? ? ? ?self.tbicon.Destroy() > ? ? ? ?event.Skip() > > ? ?def OnIconify(self, event): > ? ? ? ?self.Hide() > > ? ?def get_image(self): > ? ? ? ?img= wx.Image(opj('client.ico'), wx.BITMAP_TYPE_ICO) > ? ? ? ?return img > > ? ?def get_icon(self): > ? ? ? ?img = self.get_image() > ? ? ? ?icon = wx.IconFromBitmap(img.ConvertToBitmap() ) > ? ? ? ?return icon > > if __name__ == '__main__': > ? ?main() > > -------------- > If somebody can help me out, I would be much obliged. Please disregard this mail. I will post a barebones version separately. From koranthala at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 21:41:40 2009 From: koranthala at gmail.com (koranthala) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 18:41:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: My first wxPython App with Twisted - barebones version Message-ID: <735ece44-08f5-4120-966f-28489299c443@o9g2000prg.googlegroups.com> Hi, I am creating the first GUI app (wxPython based) using Twisted. I am facing an issue which I cannot seem to solve/understand due to lack of trace or anything. I had a big app written on twisted and now I am creating a login screen to the app. The app used to work without any issues. I added the login screen and the login screen comes up. But then everything freezes up. I have to force quit the python application to get anything back. Can anyone help me solve it? The code is as follows: import wx import os import logging from twisted.internet import wxreactor wxreactor.install() from twisted.internet import reactor #Called only after wxreactor.install() from twisted.internet.task import LoopingCall import clientapp def opj(path): """ Convert paths to the platform-specific separator """ st = apply(os.path.join, tuple(path.split('/'))) if path.startswith('/'): st = '/' + st return st class APPApp(wx.App): def OnInit(self): self.frame = APPFrame(None, -1, " APP Login", size=(200, 150)) self.panel = APPPanel(self.frame,-1) client = clientapp.setup_app() call = LoopingCall(client.run) call.start(.51) return True def main(): app = APPApp(0) reactor.registerWxApp(app) try: reactor.run() except StandardError: raise class APPFrame(wx.Frame): def __init__(self, parent, id, title, size=None): wx.Frame.__init__(self, parent, id, title, size=size, pos=wx.Point(400, 300)) icon = self.get_icon() self.SetIcon(icon) self.Show(True) self.Bind(wx.EVT_CLOSE, self.OnCloseWindow) self.Bind(wx.EVT_ICONIZE, self.OnIconify) def on_login_click(self, username, password): self.Hide() def OnCloseWindow(self, event): event.Skip() def OnIconify(self, event): self.Hide() def get_image(self): img= wx.Image(opj('client.ico'), wx.BITMAP_TYPE_ICO) return img def get_icon(self): img = self.get_image() icon = wx.IconFromBitmap(img.ConvertToBitmap() ) return icon if __name__ == '__main__': main() From geomajor56 at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 22:06:27 2009 From: geomajor56 at gmail.com (Michael Savarese) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 22:06:27 -0400 Subject: os.walk() Message-ID: <75c8645a0908041906s138c1499k59cd57d569a5c83e@mail.gmail.com> Greetings Python newbie here, and thanks to all who have helped me previously. Is there a way of grabbing file attributes while traversing with os.walk()? It would be advantageous to have date modified and file size along with the file name. If anyone can point me in the right direction, I'd appreciate it. Thanks in advance Mike S -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From erikwickstrom at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 22:37:32 2009 From: erikwickstrom at gmail.com (erikcw) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 19:37:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Is this a bug in multiprocessing or in my script? Message-ID: Hi, I'm trying to get multiprocessing to working consistently with my script. I keep getting random tracebacks with no helpful information. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Traceback (most recent call last): File "scraper.py", line 144, in print pool.map(scrape, range(10)) File "/usr/lib/python2.6/multiprocessing/pool.py", line 148, in map return self.map_async(func, iterable, chunksize).get() File "/usr/lib/python2.6/multiprocessing/pool.py", line 422, in get raise self._value TypeError: expected string or buffer It's not always the same traceback, but they are always short like this. I'm running Python 2.6.2 on Ubuntu 9.04. Any idea how I can debug this? Thanks! Erik From clp2 at rebertia.com Tue Aug 4 22:48:45 2009 From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 19:48:45 -0700 Subject: os.walk() In-Reply-To: <75c8645a0908041906s138c1499k59cd57d569a5c83e@mail.gmail.com> References: <75c8645a0908041906s138c1499k59cd57d569a5c83e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <50697b2c0908041948q31a30819g29e3d7f196e94074@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 7:06 PM, Michael Savarese wrote: > Greetings > Python newbie here, and thanks to all who have helped me previously. > Is there a way of grabbing file attributes while traversing with os.walk()? > It would be advantageous to have date modified and file size along with the > file name. > If anyone can point me in the right direction, I'd appreciate it. Feed the path to os.stat(), and then use the `stat` module on the result: http://docs.python.org/library/os.html#os.stat http://docs.python.org/library/stat.html#module-stat Cheers, Chris -- http://blog.rebertia.com From koranthala at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 22:51:55 2009 From: koranthala at gmail.com (koranthala) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 19:51:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: My first wxPython App with Twisted - barebones version References: <735ece44-08f5-4120-966f-28489299c443@o9g2000prg.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <6b487c43-814f-4130-b104-2b80795ed389@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com> On Aug 5, 6:41?am, koranthala wrote: > Hi, > ? ?I am creating the first GUI app (wxPython based) using Twisted. > ? ?I am facing an issue which I cannot seem to solve/understand due > to lack of trace or anything. > ? ?I had a big app written on twisted and now I am creating a login > screen to the app. > ? ?The app used to work without any issues. I added the login screen > and the login screen comes up. > ? ? But then everything freezes up. I have to force quit the python > application to get anything back. Can anyone help me solve it? > ? ?The code is as follows: > > import wx > import os > import logging > > from twisted.internet import wxreactor > wxreactor.install() > from twisted.internet import reactor #Called only after > wxreactor.install() > from twisted.internet.task import LoopingCall > > import clientapp > > def opj(path): > ? ? """ Convert paths to the platform-specific separator """ > ? ? st = apply(os.path.join, tuple(path.split('/'))) > ? ? if path.startswith('/'): > ? ? ? ? st = '/' + st > ? ? return st > > class APPApp(wx.App): > ? ? def OnInit(self): > ? ? ? ? self.frame = APPFrame(None, -1, " APP Login", size=(200, 150)) > ? ? ? ? self.panel = APPPanel(self.frame,-1) > ? ? ? ? client = clientapp.setup_app() > ? ? ? ? call = LoopingCall(client.run) > ? ? ? ? call.start(.51) > ? ? ? ? return True > > def main(): > ? ? app = APPApp(0) > ? ? reactor.registerWxApp(app) > ? ? try: > ? ? ? ? reactor.run() > ? ? except StandardError: > ? ? ? ? raise > > class APPFrame(wx.Frame): > ? ? def __init__(self, parent, id, title, size=None): > ? ? ? ? wx.Frame.__init__(self, parent, id, title, > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? size=size, pos=wx.Point(400, 300)) > ? ? ? ? icon = self.get_icon() > ? ? ? ? self.SetIcon(icon) > ? ? ? ? self.Show(True) > ? ? ? ? self.Bind(wx.EVT_CLOSE, self.OnCloseWindow) > ? ? ? ? self.Bind(wx.EVT_ICONIZE, self.OnIconify) > > ? ? def on_login_click(self, username, password): > ? ? ? ? self.Hide() > > ? ? def OnCloseWindow(self, event): > ? ? ? ? event.Skip() > > ? ? def OnIconify(self, event): > ? ? ? ? self.Hide() > > ? ? def get_image(self): > ? ? ? ? img= wx.Image(opj('client.ico'), wx.BITMAP_TYPE_ICO) > ? ? ? ? return img > > ? ? def get_icon(self): > ? ? ? ? img = self.get_image() > ? ? ? ? icon = wx.IconFromBitmap(img.ConvertToBitmap() ) > ? ? ? ? return icon > > if __name__ == '__main__': > ? ? main() Sorry for spamming this group. I found that this was due to a interaction with pyHook and the wxPython GUI. I havent solved it, but atleast it is not due to twisted and wxPython. From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au Tue Aug 4 23:07:26 2009 From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 13:07:26 +1000 Subject: no-clobber dicts? References: Message-ID: <00027aa9$0$2969$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> On Wed, 5 Aug 2009 06:01 am kj wrote: > In Steven > D'Aprano writes: > >>class ConstantNamespace(dict): > > >>I also have a series of unit tests for it if you're interested in them. > > Actually, come to think of it, I think I'll take you up on this. > I'd love to see those tests. Unit testing in Python is in area I > need to work on. No problem. Here you go: http://www.cybersource.com.au/users/steve/python/constants.py Comments welcome. -- Steven From sturlamolden at yahoo.no Tue Aug 4 23:46:30 2009 From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 20:46:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Is python buffer overflow proof? References: <7dnissF2bthr0U1@mid.uni-berlin.de> Message-ID: On Aug 4, 2:27?pm, Tim Chase wrote: > You *can* shoot yourself in the foot with Python, you just have > to aim much more carefully than you do with C/C++. You can e.g. define a class with a __del__ method and make some circular references. That should give you a nice memory leak. From IDOL at il.ibm.com Wed Aug 5 00:24:48 2009 From: IDOL at il.ibm.com (Ido Levy) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 07:24:48 +0300 Subject: How to fetch an XML file using an HTTPS query In-Reply-To: <49b3a7400908040641l5f5daaa8v374041b7fbac442a@mail.gmail.com> References: <49b3a7400908040638h46d4e4dcxe5cd4120e9c2c7a1@mail.gmail.com> <49b3a7400908040641l5f5daaa8v374041b7fbac442a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Tycho, Thank you for your advice. My problem was in the query itself, I replaced every space character with '%20' and it works. You are right, the Python code below does do the work. Ido From: Tycho Andersen To: python-list at python.org Date: 04/08/2009 04:42 PM Subject: Re: How to fetch an XML file using an HTTPS query Blah, forgot to include the list. When is python-list going to get Reply-To? \t On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 8:38 AM, Tycho Andersen wrote: > Hi Ido, > > On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 6:25 AM, Ido Levy wrote: >> [snip] >> I got the following result in both cases: >> >> >> Invalid filter passed. >> > > To me, this doesn't look like a python problem: the application was > successfully connected to and returned a result. The problem you're > experiencing is that it wasn't the result you expected. Are you sure > you're setting the right headers, posting the right form values, etc. > and giving the app exactly what it wants? > > \t > -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hjtoi-better-remove-before-reply at comcast.net Wed Aug 5 00:50:31 2009 From: hjtoi-better-remove-before-reply at comcast.net (Heikki Toivonen) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 21:50:31 -0700 Subject: M2Crypto: How to generate subjectKeyIdentifier / authorityKeyIdentifier References: Message-ID: Matthias G?ntert wrote: > I am trying to add the extensions "subjectKeyIdentifier" and > "authorityKeyIdentifier" to a x509v3 certificate. M2Crypto has a couple of bugs open related that, with potential workarounds that I haven't yet deemed polished enough to checkin, but which might help you out: https://bugzilla.osafoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7530 https://bugzilla.osafoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12151 -- Heikki Toivonen - http://heikkitoivonen.net From nick.m.daly at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 01:06:45 2009 From: nick.m.daly at gmail.com (Nick Daly) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 00:06:45 -0500 Subject: The Perils of PyContract (and Generators) Message-ID: <4A791365.50905@gmail.com> So, just in case any body else runs into this strange, strange happening, I thought I might as well document it somewhere Google can find it. Contracts for Python[0] and generators don't necessarily play well together. This mail comes in three parts, first, the example code that didn't work at all, second, a more in-depth view of the situation while you mull over the solution, and third, the answer. The trouble with this example is that even with all the (2 lines of) boilerplate code required to make PyContract work, the entire example is all of about a dozen lines long. The lines after the "post:" directive are executed every time the function returns, and if any one of them is false, PyContract raises an exception, preventing the calling code from acting on bad data: import os def find_files(name, directory="."): """Finds files with the sub-string name in the name. post: forall(__return__, lambda filename: name in filename) """ for root, dirs, files in os.walk(directory): for the_file in files: if name in the_file: yield the_file import contract contract.checkmod(__name__) That's it. We're just walking the directory and returning the next matching item in the generator when it's called. However, if we try executing this simple function in ipy (Interactive Python, not Iron Python), nothing works as you'd expect: In a directory containing 4 files: ["one fish", "two fish", "red fish", "blue fish"] >>> find_files("fish") >>> z = find_files("fish") >>> z.next() StopIteration: ... Apparently our generator object is empty whenever it's returned. When adding a print statement right before the yield, we see: >>> z = find_files("o") "one fish" "two fish" >>> z.next() StopIteration: ... Why are they printing during the function? Why is everything printing before the function even returns?? Has my python croaked? (How actors and serpents could both behave like amphibians is beyond me) The trouble is that when the yield statement is replaced with a return statement, everything works exactly as you might expect. It's perfect. Unit tests don't fail, doctests are happy, and dependent code works exactly as advertised. When you turn it back into a generator though, well, generating empty lists for everything isn't helpful. Getting irritated at it, I eventually just decided to comment out and remove as many lines as possible (11) without actually breaking the example, at which point it started working... What? The problem actually lies in the contract. Generally, the PyContract shouldn't affect the return values or in any way modify the code, which it doesn't, as long as the function returns a list values (the way the code had in fact originally been written). However, the contract mentioned above is actually quite wrong for a generator. PyContract's forall function checks every value in the list (exhausting the list) before returning it, and actually operates on the actual return value, and not a copy. Thus, when the forall function verifies all the values in the list, it's generating every value in the list, emptying the generator before it's returned. Correcting the above example involves doing nothing more than simplifying the contract: post: name in __return__ So, in conclusion, generators and PyContract's forall() function don't mix, and PyContract doesn't operate off of a copy of your parameters unless you explicitly tell it so (I don't think it ever operates off a copy of your return value). Nick 0: http://www.wayforward.net/pycontract/ From sturlamolden at yahoo.no Wed Aug 5 01:21:20 2009 From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 22:21:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Is this a bug in multiprocessing or in my script? References: Message-ID: <2f26a239-2f06-40f8-b0f0-d2e55edbe5e5@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> On Aug 5, 4:37 am, erikcw wrote: > It's not always the same traceback, but they are always short like > this. I'm running Python 2.6.2 on Ubuntu 9.04. > > Any idea how I can debug this? In my experience, multiprocessing is fragile. Scripts tend fo fail for no obvious reason, case processes to be orphaned and linger, system- wide resource leaks, etc. For example, multiprocessing uses os._exit to stop a spawned process, even though it inevitably results in resource leaks on Linux (it should use sys.exit). Ga?l Varoquaux and I noticed this when we implemented shared memory ndarrays for numpy; we consistently got memory leaks with System V IPC for no obvious reason. Even after Jesse Noller was informed of the problem (about half a year ago), the bug still lingers. It is easy edit multiprocessing's forking.py file on you own, but bugs like this is a pain in the ass, and I suspect multiprocessing has many of them. Of course unless you show us you whole script, identifying the source of your bug will be impossible. But it may very likely be in multiprocessing as well. The quality of this module is not impressing. I am beginning to think that multiprocessing should never have made it into the Python standard library. The GIL cannot be that bad! If you can't stand the GIL, get a Unix (or Mac, Linux, Cygwin) and use os.fork. Or simply switch to a non-GIL Python: IronPython or Jython. Allow me to show you something better. With os.fork we can write code like this: class parallel(object): def __enter__(self): # call os.fork def __exit__(self, exc_type, exc_value, traceback): # call sys.exit in the child processes and # os.waitpid in the parent def __call__(self, iterable): # return different sub-subsequences depending on # child or parent status with parallel() as p: # parallel block starts here for item in p(iterable): # whatever # parallel block ends here This makes parallel code a lot cleaner than anything you can do with multiprocessing, allowing you to use constructs similar to OpenMP. Further, if you make 'parallel' a dummy context manager, you can develop and test the algorithms serially. The only drawback is that you have to use Cygwin to get os.fork on Windows, and forking will be less efficient (no copy-on-write optimization). Well, this is just one example of why Windows sucks from the perspective of the programmer. But it also shows that you can do much better by not using multiprocessing at all. The only case I can think of where multiprocessing would be usesful, is I/O bound code on Windows. But here you will almost always resort to C extension modules. For I/O bound code, Python tends to give you a 200x speed penalty over C. If you are resorting to C anyway, you can just use OpenMP in C for your parallel processing. We can thus forget about multiprocessing here as well, given that we have access to the C code. If we don't, it is still very likely that the C code releases the GIL, and we can get away with using Python threads instead of multiprocessing. IMHO, if you are using multiprocessing, you are very likely to have a design problem. Regards, Sturla From wuwei23 at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 01:45:50 2009 From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 22:45:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Announcing PythonTurtle References: Message-ID: <80f475f8-e6ea-4960-bdb8-86a90c60d656@y10g2000prf.googlegroups.com> John Posner wrote: > OK, then why the statements "from turtle import *" in the modules > turtleprocess.py and turtlewidget.py? Looking in the source I'd say it's because there's a local turtle.py. From mensanator at aol.com Wed Aug 5 01:49:16 2009 From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 22:49:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Turtle Graphics are incompatible with gmpy Message-ID: I hadn't noticed this before, but the overhaul of Turtle Graphics dating back to 2.6 has been broken as far as gmpy is concerned. I hadn't noticed because I usually have tracing turned off (tracing off takes 3-4 seconds, tracing on takes 6-7 minutes). In 3.1, tracing is now a screen attribute, not a turtle atribute. I have no idea why tooter = turtle.Turtle() tooter.tracer(False) doesn't give me an error (I thought silent errors were a bad thing). Had to change to tooter = turtle.Turtle() tooter.screen.tracer(False) # tracer now a screen attribute to turn tracing off in 3.1. Naturally, having tracing on caused my program to crash. The 2.6 version seemed to work, but only because turning off tracing as a turtle attribute works in 2.6. So I turned it back on and it crashed too. 2.5 worked okay. The reason is that code in turtle.py was chabged from v2.5 if self._drawing: if self._tracing: dx = float(x1 - x0) dy = float(y1 - y0) distance = hypot(dx, dy) nhops = int(distance) to v3.1 if self._speed and screen._tracing == 1: diff = (end-start) diffsq = (diff[0]*screen.xscale)**2 + (diff[1] *screen.yscale)**2 nhops = 1+int((diffsq**0.5)/(3*(1.1**self._speed) *self._speed)) Unfortunately, that calculation of nhops is illegal if diffsq is an .mpf (gmpy floating point). Otherwise, you get Traceback (most recent call last): File "K:\user_python26\turtle\turtle_xy_Py3.py", line 95, in tooter.goto(the_coord) File "C:\Python31\lib\turtle.py", line 1771, in goto self._goto(Vec2D(*x)) File "C:\Python31\lib\turtle.py", line 3165, in _goto nhops = 1+int((diffsq**0.5)/(3*(1.1**self._speed)*self._speed)) ValueError: mpq.pow fractional exponent, inexact-root So when using gmpy, you have to convert the .mpz to int before calling turtle functions. (if tracing is on). demo code (fixed code commented out) import gmpy ## (even) hi----| ## | ## lo (odd) ## or ## ## (even) lo ## | ## | ## ----hi (odd) ## ## ## ## import turtle tooter = turtle.Turtle() tooter.hideturtle() tooter.speed('fast') turtle.update() # make tracer false and it works #tooter.screen.tracer(False) # tracer now a screen attribute tooter.penup() tooter.color('black') s = ['1','0'] while len(s[0])<10000: s = [''.join(s), s[0]] origin = [0,0] if s[0] == '0': tooter.goto(origin) tooter.dot(1) if s[1] == '0': tooter.goto([1,0]) tooter.dot(1) print(len(s[0])) for i,j in enumerate(s[0]): the_coord=[] cur_root = gmpy.sqrt(i) lo__root = gmpy.sqrt(i)**2 hi__root = ((gmpy.sqrt(i)+1)**2) ## cur_root = int(gmpy.sqrt(i)) ## lo__root = int(gmpy.sqrt(i)**2) ## hi__root = int(((gmpy.sqrt(i)+1)**2)) if hi__root%2==0: side = 'northeast' else: side = 'southwest' elbow = (hi__root - lo__root)//2 + lo__root + 1 if i>= elbow: side_len = i - elbow elbow_plus = True else: side_len = elbow - i elbow_plus = False if side == 'northeast': elbow_offset = [(gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)//2 +1,-((gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)// 2) +1] else: elbow_offset = [-((gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)//2 +1),((gmpy.sqrt (elbow)-1)//2 +1)] ## if side == 'northeast': ## elbow_offset = [int((gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)//2 +1),-int(((gmpy.sqrt (elbow)-1)//2) +1)] ## else: ## elbow_offset = [-int(((gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)//2 +1)),int (((gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)//2 +1))] elbow_coord = [origin[0]+elbow_offset[0],origin[1]+elbow_offset[1]] if i != hi__root and i != lo__root: if i == elbow: the_coord = elbow_coord else: if elbow_plus: if side == 'northeast': the_coord = [elbow_coord[0]-side_len,elbow_coord[1]] else: the_coord = [elbow_coord[0]+side_len,elbow_coord[1]] else: if side == 'northeast': the_coord = [elbow_coord[0],elbow_coord[1]+side_len] else: the_coord = [elbow_coord[0],elbow_coord[1]-side_len] else: if i % 2 == 0: # even square n = gmpy.sqrt(i)//2 - 1 ## n = int(gmpy.sqrt(i)//2) - 1 the_coord = [-n, -n-1] else: n = (gmpy.sqrt(i)-1)//2 - 1 ## n = int((gmpy.sqrt(i)-1)//2) - 1 the_coord = [1+n, 1+n] if j == '0': tooter.goto(the_coord) tooter.dot(2) print('done') turtle.update() turtle.done() print('done') From pfeldman at verizon.net Wed Aug 5 02:28:29 2009 From: pfeldman at verizon.net (Dr. Phillip M. Feldman) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 23:28:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: trouble with complex numbers Message-ID: <24821423.post@talk.nabble.com> When I try to compute the phase of a complex number, I get an error message: In [3]: from cmath import * In [4]: x=1+1J In [5]: phase(x) NameError: name 'phase' is not defined AttributeError: 'complex' object has no attribute 'phase' Any advice will be appreciated. -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/trouble-with-complex-numbers-tp24821423p24821423.html Sent from the Python - python-list mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From ryniek90 at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 02:50:08 2009 From: ryniek90 at gmail.com (ryniek) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 23:50:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: How to write replace string for object which will be substituted? [regexp] References: <4A78B425.2010604@gmail.com> Message-ID: <581a0c92-3117-4712-bfac-a3b9c4f6eb97@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com> On 5 Sie, 00:55, MRAB wrote: > ryniek90 wrote: > > Hi. > > I started learning regexp, and some things goes well, but most of them > > still not. > > > I've got problem with some regexp. Better post code here: > > > " > > ?>>> import re > > ?>>> mail = '\nn... at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] > > mail [$dot$] com\n' > > ?>>> mail > > '\nn... at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] > > com\n' > > ?>>> print mail > > > n... at mail.com > > name1 [at] mail [dot] com > > name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com > > > ?>>> maail = re.sub('^\n|$\n', '', mail) > > ?>>> print maail > > n... at mail.com > > name1 [at] mail [dot] com > > name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com > > ?>>> maail = re.sub(' ', '', maail) > > ?>>> print maail > > n... at mail.com > > name1[at]mail[dot]com > > name2[$at$]mail[$dot$]com > > ?>>> maail = re.sub('\[at\]|\[\$at\$\]', '@', maail) > > ?>>> print maail > > n... at mail.com > > name1 at mail[dot]com > > name2 at mail[$dot$]com > > ?>>> maail = re.sub('\[dot\]|\[\$dot\$\]', '.', maail) > > ?>>> print maail > > n... at mail.com > > na... at mail.com > > na... at mail.com > > ?>>> #How must i write the replace string to replace all this regexp's > > with just ONE command, in string 'mail' ? > > ?>>> maail = re.sub('^\n|$\n| |\[at\]|\[\$at\$\]|\[dot\]|\[\$dot\$\]', > > *?*, mail) > > " > > > How must i write that replace pattern (look at question mark), to maek > > that substituion work? I didn't saw anything helpful while reading Re > > doc and HowTo (from Python Doc). I tried with 'MatchObject.group()' but > > something gone wrong - didn't wrote it right. > > Is there more user friendly HowTo for Python Re, than this? > > > I'm new to programming an regexp, sorry for inconvenience. > > I don't think you can do it in one regex, nor would I want to. Just use > the string's replace() method. > > ?>>> mail = '\nn... at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] > mail [$dot$] com\n' > ?>>> mail > '\nn... at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] > com\n' > ?>>> print mail > > n... at mail.com > name1 [at] mail [dot] com > name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com > > ?>>> maail = mail.strip() > n... at mail.com > name1 [at] mail [dot] com > name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com > > ?>>> maail = maail.replace(' ', '') > ?>>> print maail > n... at mail.com > name1[at]mail[dot]com > name2[$at$]mail[$dot$]com > ?>>> maail = maail.replace('[at]', '@').replace('[$at$]', '@') > ?>>> print maail > n... at mail.com > name1 at mail[dot]com > name2 at mail[$dot$]com > ?>>> maail = maail.replace('[dot]', '.').replace('[$dot$]', '.') > ?>>> print maail > n... at mail.com > na... at mail.com > na... at mail.com Too bad, I thought that the almighty re module could do anything, but it failed with this (or maybe re can do what i want, but only few people knows how to force him to that? :P). But with help of MRAB, i choose The 3rd Point of Python's Zen - "Simple is better than complex." " >>> mail = '\nname at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com\n' >>> mail '\nname at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com\n' >>> print mail name at mail.com name1 [at] mail [dot] com name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com >>> maail = mail.lstrip().rstrip().replace(' ', '').replace('[dot]', '.').replace('[$dot$]', '.').replace('[at]', '@').replace('[$at$]', '@') >>> print maail name at mail.com name1 at mail.com name2 at mail.com >>> #Did it :) " Thanks again :) From ryniek90 at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 02:53:56 2009 From: ryniek90 at gmail.com (ryniek) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 23:53:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: How to write replace string for object which will be substituted? [regexp] References: <4A78B425.2010604@gmail.com> Message-ID: <45b7bc73-9c60-4da5-beda-1c2536add738@c1g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> On 5 Sie, 00:55, MRAB wrote: > ryniek90 wrote: > > Hi. > > I started learning regexp, and some things goes well, but most of them > > still not. > > > I've got problem with some regexp. Better post code here: > > > " > > ?>>> import re > > ?>>> mail = '\nn... at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] > > mail [$dot$] com\n' > > ?>>> mail > > '\nn... at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] > > com\n' > > ?>>> print mail > > > n... at mail.com > > name1 [at] mail [dot] com > > name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com > > > ?>>> maail = re.sub('^\n|$\n', '', mail) > > ?>>> print maail > > n... at mail.com > > name1 [at] mail [dot] com > > name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com > > ?>>> maail = re.sub(' ', '', maail) > > ?>>> print maail > > n... at mail.com > > name1[at]mail[dot]com > > name2[$at$]mail[$dot$]com > > ?>>> maail = re.sub('\[at\]|\[\$at\$\]', '@', maail) > > ?>>> print maail > > n... at mail.com > > name1 at mail[dot]com > > name2 at mail[$dot$]com > > ?>>> maail = re.sub('\[dot\]|\[\$dot\$\]', '.', maail) > > ?>>> print maail > > n... at mail.com > > na... at mail.com > > na... at mail.com > > ?>>> #How must i write the replace string to replace all this regexp's > > with just ONE command, in string 'mail' ? > > ?>>> maail = re.sub('^\n|$\n| |\[at\]|\[\$at\$\]|\[dot\]|\[\$dot\$\]', > > *?*, mail) > > " > > > How must i write that replace pattern (look at question mark), to maek > > that substituion work? I didn't saw anything helpful while reading Re > > doc and HowTo (from Python Doc). I tried with 'MatchObject.group()' but > > something gone wrong - didn't wrote it right. > > Is there more user friendly HowTo for Python Re, than this? > > > I'm new to programming an regexp, sorry for inconvenience. > > I don't think you can do it in one regex, nor would I want to. Just use > the string's replace() method. > > ?>>> mail = '\nn... at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] > mail [$dot$] com\n' > ?>>> mail > '\nn... at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] > com\n' > ?>>> print mail > > n... at mail.com > name1 [at] mail [dot] com > name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com > > ?>>> maail = mail.strip() > n... at mail.com > name1 [at] mail [dot] com > name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com > > ?>>> maail = maail.replace(' ', '') > ?>>> print maail > n... at mail.com > name1[at]mail[dot]com > name2[$at$]mail[$dot$]com > ?>>> maail = maail.replace('[at]', '@').replace('[$at$]', '@') > ?>>> print maail > n... at mail.com > name1 at mail[dot]com > name2 at mail[$dot$]com > ?>>> maail = maail.replace('[dot]', '.').replace('[$dot$]', '.') > ?>>> print maail > n... at mail.com > na... at mail.com > na... at mail.com Too bad, I thought that the almighty re module could do anything, but it failed with this (or maybe re can do what i want, but only few people knows how to force him to that? :P). But with help of MRAB, i choose The 3rd Point of Python's Zen - "Simple is better than complex." " >>> mail = '\nn... at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com\n' >>> mail '\nn... at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com\n' >>> print mail n... at mail.com name1 [at] mail [dot] com name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com >>> maail = mail.lstrip().rstrip().replace(' ', '').replace('[dot]', '.').replace('[$dot$]', '.').replace('[at]', '@').replace('[$at$]', '@') >>> print maail n... at mail.com na... at mail.com na... at mail.com >>> #Did it :) " Thanks again :) From casevh at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 02:54:12 2009 From: casevh at gmail.com (casevh) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 23:54:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Turtle Graphics are incompatible with gmpy References: Message-ID: On Aug 4, 10:49?pm, Mensanator wrote: > I hadn't noticed this before, but the overhaul of Turtle Graphics > dating > back to 2.6 has been broken as far as gmpy is concerned. > The reason is that code in turtle.py was chabged from > > v2.5 > ? ? ? ? if self._drawing: > ? ? ? ? ? ? if self._tracing: > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? dx = float(x1 - x0) > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? dy = float(y1 - y0) > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? distance = hypot(dx, dy) > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? nhops = int(distance) > > to > > v3.1 > ? ? ? ?if self._speed and screen._tracing == 1: > ? ? ? ? ? ? diff = (end-start) > ? ? ? ? ? ? diffsq = (diff[0]*screen.xscale)**2 + (diff[1] > *screen.yscale)**2 > ? ? ? ? ? ? nhops = 1+int((diffsq**0.5)/(3*(1.1**self._speed) > *self._speed)) > > Unfortunately, that calculation of nhops is illegal if diffsq is > an .mpf (gmpy > floating point). Otherwise, you get > > Traceback (most recent call last): > ? File "K:\user_python26\turtle\turtle_xy_Py3.py", line 95, in > > ? ? tooter.goto(the_coord) > ? File "C:\Python31\lib\turtle.py", line 1771, in goto > ? ? self._goto(Vec2D(*x)) > ? File "C:\Python31\lib\turtle.py", line 3165, in _goto > ? ? nhops = 1+int((diffsq**0.5)/(3*(1.1**self._speed)*self._speed)) > ValueError: mpq.pow fractional exponent, inexact-root > Warning: Completely untested fix ahead! What happens if you change turtle.py to use nhops=1+int((math.sqrt(diffsq)/(3*math.pow(1.1, self._speed) *self._speed)) casevh From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au Wed Aug 5 03:19:52 2009 From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 17:19:52 +1000 Subject: Turtle Graphics are incompatible with gmpy References: Message-ID: <0002b5d3$0$2970$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> On Wed, 5 Aug 2009 03:49 pm Mensanator wrote: > In 3.1, tracing is now a screen attribute, not a turtle atribute. > I have no idea why > > tooter = turtle.Turtle() > tooter.tracer(False) > > doesn't give me an error (I thought silent errors were a bad thing). What makes it an error? Do you consider the following an error? >>> class Test: ... pass ... >>> t = Test() >>> t.tracer = 5 >>> Perhaps you mean, it's an API change you didn't know about, and you wish to protest that Turtle Graphics made an incompatible API change without telling you? > Naturally, having tracing on caused my program to crash. It seg faulted or raised an exception? [...] > Unfortunately, that calculation of nhops is illegal if diffsq is > an .mpf (gmpy floating point). Otherwise, you get How does diffsq get to be a mpf? Are gmpy floats supposed to be supported? -- Steven From gregor.lingl at aon.at Wed Aug 5 03:21:44 2009 From: gregor.lingl at aon.at (Gregor Lingl) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 09:21:44 +0200 Subject: Turtle Graphics are incompatible with gmpy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4a793315$0$2305$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> Mensanator schrieb: > I hadn't noticed this before, but the overhaul of Turtle Graphics > dating > back to 2.6 has been broken as far as gmpy is concerned. > > I hadn't noticed because I usually have tracing turned off (tracing > off > takes 3-4 seconds, tracing on takes 6-7 minutes). > > In 3.1, tracing is now a screen attribute, not a turtle atribute. > I have no idea why > > tooter = turtle.Turtle() > tooter.tracer(False) > > doesn't give me an error (I thought silent errors were a bad thing). > Hi, on my machine I get: Python 3.1 (r31:73574, Jun 26 2009, 20:21:35) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)] on win32 Type "copyright", "credits" or "license()" for more information. >>> import turtle >>> tooter = turtle.Turtle() >>> tooter.tracer(False) Traceback (most recent call last): File "", line 1, in tooter.tracer(False) AttributeError: 'Turtle' object has no attribute 'tracer' >>> I'd like to help with your problem but I'd much better be able to analyze it, if I had a version of your script, which works as you intended with Python 2.5 and the old turtle module. Could you please post it? (The one you posted below uses some commands of the turtle 2.6 module which are not present in 2.5, so it doesn't run with Python 2.5) Regards, Gregor > Had to change to > > tooter = turtle.Turtle() > tooter.screen.tracer(False) # tracer now a screen attribute > > to turn tracing off in 3.1. > > Naturally, having tracing on caused my program to crash. The 2.6 > version > seemed to work, but only because turning off tracing as a turtle > attribute > works in 2.6. > > So I turned it back on and it crashed too. > > 2.5 worked okay. > > The reason is that code in turtle.py was chabged from > > v2.5 > if self._drawing: > if self._tracing: > dx = float(x1 - x0) > dy = float(y1 - y0) > distance = hypot(dx, dy) > nhops = int(distance) > > to > > v3.1 > if self._speed and screen._tracing == 1: > diff = (end-start) > diffsq = (diff[0]*screen.xscale)**2 + (diff[1] > *screen.yscale)**2 > nhops = 1+int((diffsq**0.5)/(3*(1.1**self._speed) > *self._speed)) > > Unfortunately, that calculation of nhops is illegal if diffsq is > an .mpf (gmpy > floating point). Otherwise, you get > > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "K:\user_python26\turtle\turtle_xy_Py3.py", line 95, in > > tooter.goto(the_coord) > File "C:\Python31\lib\turtle.py", line 1771, in goto > self._goto(Vec2D(*x)) > File "C:\Python31\lib\turtle.py", line 3165, in _goto > nhops = 1+int((diffsq**0.5)/(3*(1.1**self._speed)*self._speed)) > ValueError: mpq.pow fractional exponent, inexact-root > > So when using gmpy, you have to convert the .mpz to int before calling > turtle > functions. (if tracing is on). > > demo code (fixed code commented out) > > import gmpy > > ## (even) hi----| > ## | > ## lo (odd) > ## or > ## > ## (even) lo > ## | > ## | > ## ----hi (odd) > ## > ## > ## > ## > > import turtle > > tooter = turtle.Turtle() > > tooter.hideturtle() > tooter.speed('fast') > turtle.update() > # make tracer false and it works > #tooter.screen.tracer(False) # tracer now a screen attribute > tooter.penup() > tooter.color('black') > > s = ['1','0'] > while len(s[0])<10000: > s = [''.join(s), s[0]] > > > origin = [0,0] > if s[0] == '0': > tooter.goto(origin) > tooter.dot(1) > if s[1] == '0': > tooter.goto([1,0]) > tooter.dot(1) > > print(len(s[0])) > > for i,j in enumerate(s[0]): > the_coord=[] > cur_root = gmpy.sqrt(i) > lo__root = gmpy.sqrt(i)**2 > hi__root = ((gmpy.sqrt(i)+1)**2) > ## cur_root = int(gmpy.sqrt(i)) > ## lo__root = int(gmpy.sqrt(i)**2) > ## hi__root = int(((gmpy.sqrt(i)+1)**2)) > > if hi__root%2==0: > side = 'northeast' > else: > side = 'southwest' > > elbow = (hi__root - lo__root)//2 + lo__root + 1 > > if i>= elbow: > > side_len = i - elbow > elbow_plus = True > else: > side_len = elbow - i > elbow_plus = False > > if side == 'northeast': > elbow_offset = [(gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)//2 +1,-((gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)// > 2) +1] > else: > elbow_offset = [-((gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)//2 +1),((gmpy.sqrt > (elbow)-1)//2 +1)] > ## if side == 'northeast': > ## elbow_offset = [int((gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)//2 +1),-int(((gmpy.sqrt > (elbow)-1)//2) +1)] > ## else: > ## elbow_offset = [-int(((gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)//2 +1)),int > (((gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)//2 +1))] > > elbow_coord = [origin[0]+elbow_offset[0],origin[1]+elbow_offset[1]] > > if i != hi__root and i != lo__root: > if i == elbow: > the_coord = elbow_coord > else: > if elbow_plus: > if side == 'northeast': > the_coord = [elbow_coord[0]-side_len,elbow_coord[1]] > else: > the_coord = [elbow_coord[0]+side_len,elbow_coord[1]] > else: > if side == 'northeast': > the_coord = [elbow_coord[0],elbow_coord[1]+side_len] > else: > the_coord = [elbow_coord[0],elbow_coord[1]-side_len] > else: > if i % 2 == 0: # even square > n = gmpy.sqrt(i)//2 - 1 > ## n = int(gmpy.sqrt(i)//2) - 1 > the_coord = [-n, -n-1] > else: > n = (gmpy.sqrt(i)-1)//2 - 1 > ## n = int((gmpy.sqrt(i)-1)//2) - 1 > the_coord = [1+n, 1+n] > if j == '0': > tooter.goto(the_coord) > tooter.dot(2) > print('done') > > turtle.update() > turtle.done() > print('done') From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au Wed Aug 5 03:23:29 2009 From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 17:23:29 +1000 Subject: The Perils of PyContract (and Generators) References: Message-ID: <0002b6ac$0$2970$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> On Wed, 5 Aug 2009 03:06 pm Nick Daly wrote: > The problem actually lies in the contract. Generally, the PyContract > shouldn't affect the return values or in any way modify the code, which > it doesn't, as long as the function returns a list values (the way the > code had in fact originally been written). However, the contract > mentioned above is actually quite wrong for a generator. Yes, because you are conflating the items yielded from the generator with the generator object returned from the generator function "find_files". You can't look inside the generator object without using up whichever items you look at. [...] > Correcting the above example involves doing nothing more than > simplifying the contract: > > post: > name in __return__ That can't be right, not unless PyContract is doing something I don't expect. I expect that would be equivalent of: 'fish' in which should fail: >>> __return__ = find_files('fish') # a generator object >>> 'fish' in __return__ False >>> >>> __return__ = find_files('fish') >>> __return__ = list(__return__) >>> 'fish' in __return__ False >>> __return__ ['one fish', 'two fish', 'red fish', 'blue fish'] Of course, I may be mistaking what PyContract is doing. -- Steven From rays at blue-cove.com Wed Aug 5 03:25:03 2009 From: rays at blue-cove.com (RayS) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 00:25:03 -0700 Subject: Cypress FX2 - py libusb code? Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20090804224315.01c22b60@pop-server.san.rr.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gregor.lingl at aon.at Wed Aug 5 03:37:08 2009 From: gregor.lingl at aon.at (Gregor Lingl) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 09:37:08 +0200 Subject: Turtle Graphics are incompatible with gmpy In-Reply-To: <0002b5d3$0$2970$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> References: <0002b5d3$0$2970$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Message-ID: <4a7936a4$0$1552$91cee783@newsreader03.highway.telekom.at> Steven D'Aprano schrieb: > On Wed, 5 Aug 2009 03:49 pm Mensanator wrote: > >> In 3.1, tracing is now a screen attribute, not a turtle atribute. >> I have no idea why >> >> tooter = turtle.Turtle() >> tooter.tracer(False) >> >> doesn't give me an error (I thought silent errors were a bad thing). > > What makes it an error? Do you consider the following an error? > >>>> class Test: > ... pass > ... >>>> t = Test() >>>> t.tracer = 5 >>>> > > Perhaps you mean, it's an API change you didn't know about, and you wish to > protest that Turtle Graphics made an incompatible API change without > telling you? > It didn't form 2.5 to 2.6 (at least not intentionally). But with the indroduction of the TurtleScreen class and the Screen class/object (singleton) a few of the turtle methods were also implemented as screen methods and as turtle methods declared deprecated (see docs of Python 2.6). These deprecated turtle methods do not occur as turtle methods any more in Python 3.x. Among them is the tracer method, which in fact does not control single turtle objects but all the turtles on a given screen. So there is an icompatibility beween 2.6 and 3.x But as far as I have understood, this doesn't concern the problem reported by mensator. Regards, Gregor > >> Naturally, having tracing on caused my program to crash. > > It seg faulted or raised an exception? > > > [...] >> Unfortunately, that calculation of nhops is illegal if diffsq is >> an .mpf (gmpy floating point). Otherwise, you get > > How does diffsq get to be a mpf? Are gmpy floats supposed to be supported? > > > From news123 at free.fr Wed Aug 5 03:44:18 2009 From: news123 at free.fr (News123) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 09:44:18 +0200 Subject: merge two png pic In-Reply-To: <72d7aad1-1fb7-4b32-a87f-636505b0faa2@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com> References: <006617e3-6630-4f04-bff1-99c58dbb6cb5@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com> <4a77e249$0$2449$426a74cc@news.free.fr> <72d7aad1-1fb7-4b32-a87f-636505b0faa2@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <4a793852$0$19598$426a74cc@news.free.fr> You didn't really tell us why you need one big file, which contains more pixel, than you can probably store in RAM Is it for printing? Not knwoing your goal makes it difficult to suggest solutions. Can't you use other image formats like raw RGB or What other image formats are supported? tiff? Raw? PPM ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portable_pixmap )? concatenating raw/ppm files with the same width would be really trivial. so you could use python to create horizontal raw/ppm stripes. then you could concatenate them without having to have the whole image in RAM. Perhaps there's even converters from ppm to png, that don't need the whole image in RAM. cocobear wrote: > On Aug 4, 3:24 pm, News123 wrote: >> Hi, >> >> >> >> >> >> cocobear wrote: >>>>>>> Map = Image.new("RGB", (x,y)) >>>>>>> Map.paste(im, box) >>>>>>> Map.paste(im1,box) >>>>>>> Map = Map.convert("L", optimize=True, palette=Image.ADAPTIVE) >>>>>>> But if thetwopngpicis too big , or if I have tomergemorepic >>>>>>> together, I will get MemoryError: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Image.new("RGB",(44544,38656)) >>>> What do you want to do with such a big image? You will run into the same >>>> limitation when you are trying to display it. >>> I want to download a map from google map with high precision >> For me it sounds strange to handle such big files. >> >> Is the map you download from Google really that big? >> Mostly Google maps uses normally tiles of sizes 256x256 pixel, wich you >> have to compose to get the big image. >> > > The map I downloaded from Google is small(256x256). These small maps > will compose a big image. > > > >> If your problem is to combine tiles with different palettes, then you >> should pobably look at a way to 'unify' the palette of all tiles befor >> combining them. >> > > I think it is impossible to 'unify' all this tiles. > > >> Being no expert of PIL I don't know whether this is easily possible though? >> >> bye >> >> N > From hendrik at microcorp.co.za Wed Aug 5 03:56:33 2009 From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 09:56:33 +0200 Subject: Using Python to automate builds In-Reply-To: <84d9ae10-3aee-40a8-97ac-05799da0de64@f18g2000prf.googlegroups.com> References: <84d9ae10-3aee-40a8-97ac-05799da0de64@f18g2000prf.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <200908050956.33995.hendrik@microcorp.co.za> On Tuesday 04 August 2009 21:13:10 Kosta wrote: > I am a Python newbie, tasked with automating (researching) building > Windows drivers using the WDK build environment. I've been looking > into Python for this (instead of writing a bunch of batch files). > Why do you not use make and a makefile - it was designed to do exactly this. - Hendrik From fafounet at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 04:08:14 2009 From: fafounet at gmail.com (Fafounet) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 01:08:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Special chars with HTMLParser Message-ID: <5c6941f8-c53e-4518-8ce5-83be64689307@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> Hello, I am parsing a web page with special chars such as é (which stands for ?). I know I can have the unicode character ? from unicode ("\xe9","iso-8859-1") but with those extra characters I don' t know. I tried to implement handle_charref within HTMLParser without success. Furthermore, if I have the data abécd, handle_data will get "ab", handle_charref will get xe9 and then handle_data doesn't have the end of the string ("cd"). Thank you for your help, Fabien From clp2 at rebertia.com Wed Aug 5 04:40:59 2009 From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 01:40:59 -0700 Subject: trouble with complex numbers In-Reply-To: <24821423.post@talk.nabble.com> References: <24821423.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: <50697b2c0908050140g3acd8a8cx9fc87af12ea77c31@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 11:28 PM, Dr. Phillip M. Feldman wrote: > > When I try to compute the phase of a complex number, I get an error message: > > In [3]: from cmath import * > In [4]: x=1+1J > In [5]: phase(x) > > NameError: name 'phase' is not defined > > AttributeError: 'complex' object has no attribute 'phase' I suspect the problem lies in what you snipped away: In [1]: from cmath import phase In [2]: x=1+1J In [3]: phase(x) Out[3]: 0.78539816339744828 Cheers, Chris -- http://blog.rebertia.com From wuwei23 at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 04:43:13 2009 From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 01:43:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: trouble with complex numbers References: Message-ID: On Aug 5, 4:28?pm, "Dr. Phillip M. Feldman" wrote: > When I try to compute the phase of a complex number, I get an error message: > [...] > Any advice will be appreciated. 1. What version of Python are you using, and on what platform? 2. What you snipped is necessary to help debug your problem. 3. Do you have a cmath.py in the folder you're running the interpreter in? From sanu1267 at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 05:03:51 2009 From: sanu1267 at gmail.com (sanju ps) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 14:33:51 +0530 Subject: Launch my application if its not running Message-ID: <2b76be80908050203o5d002a8draf4c8bed564eef2b@mail.gmail.com> How to check whether my gui application is running or not.If its already running i have to quit my program other wise i need to launch my program. Can anybody suggest a solution to this Regards Sanju -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From clp2 at rebertia.com Wed Aug 5 05:07:14 2009 From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 02:07:14 -0700 Subject: Launch my application if its not running In-Reply-To: <2b76be80908050203o5d002a8draf4c8bed564eef2b@mail.gmail.com> References: <2b76be80908050203o5d002a8draf4c8bed564eef2b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <50697b2c0908050207h7f2a866fuf63e843a66a7030d@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 2:03 AM, sanju ps wrote: > How to check whether my gui application is running or not.If its already > running i have to quit my program other wise i need to launch my program. > Can anybody suggest a solution to this Use a lock file? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lock_file#Lock_files Cheers, Chris -- http://blog.rebertia.com From smpoojary at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 05:11:38 2009 From: smpoojary at gmail.com (Mahesh Poojary S) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 02:11:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: socket.inet_ntop, and pton question In-Reply-To: <12rpns1tkp0e34@corp.supernews.com> References: <12rpns1tkp0e34@corp.supernews.com> Message-ID: <24823395.post@talk.nabble.com> Martin-298 wrote: > > Hi > > Are these functions (inet_ntop(), inet_pton()) from the socket library > supported on Windows. > > If not is there an equivalent for them using Windows > > Ive seen mention of people creating their own in order to use them > > Appreciate the help > > ty > -- > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list > > You can use the below code: def inet_ntop(address_family, packed_ip): if address_family != AF_INET: raise socket.error, (97, 'Address family not supported by protocol') lIP = [] for ch in packed_ip: lIP.append(str(ord(ch))) strIP = string.join(lIP,'.') return strIP def inet_pton(address_family, ip_string): if address_family != AF_INET: raise socket.error, (97, 'Address family not supported by protocol') lIP = ip_string.split('.') strHexIP = "" for i in lIP: if i == '': continue strHex = "%x" % int(i) strHex = strHex.zfill(2) strHexIP += "\\x"+strHex return strHexIP -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/socket.inet_ntop%2C-and-pton-question-tp8677935p24823395.html Sent from the Python - python-list mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From lists at cheimes.de Wed Aug 5 05:21:18 2009 From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 11:21:18 +0200 Subject: trouble with complex numbers In-Reply-To: <24821423.post@talk.nabble.com> References: <24821423.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: Dr. Phillip M. Feldman wrote: > When I try to compute the phase of a complex number, I get an error message: > > In [3]: from cmath import * > In [4]: x=1+1J > In [5]: phase(x) > > NameError: name 'phase' is not defined > > AttributeError: 'complex' object has no attribute 'phase' > > Any advice will be appreciated. phase() has been added to Python 2.6 and 3.0. It's not available in Python 2.5 and earlier. If you'd used cmath.phase() instead of the ugly "from cmath import *" statement you'd have seen the correct error message. You can write your own phase() function. This function is mostly correct unless either the real and/or the imag part is NaN or INF. from math import atan2 def phase(z): z += 1j # convert int, long, float to complex return atan2(z.imag, z.real) From Tribulations at Paralleles.invalid Wed Aug 5 06:13:00 2009 From: Tribulations at Paralleles.invalid (TP) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 12:13:00 +0200 Subject: intricated functions: how to share a variable Message-ID: Hi everybody, See the following example: ######### def tutu(): def toto(): print a a = 4 print a a=2 toto() tutu() ########## I obtain the following error: "UnboundLocalError: local variable 'a' referenced before assignment" This is because Python looks in the local context before looking in the global context. The use of "global a" in toto() does not help because global allows to force Python to look for the variable at the module level. So, how to share a variable between intricated functions? Thanks a lot Julien -- python -c "print ''.join([chr(154 - ord(c)) for c in '*9(9&(18%.\ 9&1+,\'Z4(55l4('])" "When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong." (first law of AC Clarke) From albert at spenarnc.xs4all.nl Wed Aug 5 06:35:18 2009 From: albert at spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) Date: 05 Aug 2009 10:35:18 GMT Subject: Overlap in python References: Message-ID: In article , Jay Bird wrote: >Hi everyone, > >I've been trying to figure out a simple algorithm on how to combine a >list of parts that have 1D locations that overlap into a non- >overlapping list. For example, here would be my input: > >part name location >a 5-9 >b 7-10 >c 3-6 >d 15-20 >e 18-23 > >And here is what I need for an output: >part name location >c.a.b 3-10 >d.e 15-23 > >I've tried various methods, which all fail. Does anyone have an idea >how to do this? That is an algorithmic question and has little to do with Python. You could proceed as follows: - Order your data by the lower limit - Combine everything with the same lower limit. - Then combine every pair of consecutive entries that overlap. (In you case the second step is not needed.) > >Thank you very much! >Jay -- -- Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters. albert at spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst From deets at nospam.web.de Wed Aug 5 06:39:54 2009 From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 12:39:54 +0200 Subject: intricated functions: how to share a variable References: Message-ID: <7dt5rqF2crv46U1@mid.uni-berlin.de> TP wrote: > Hi everybody, > > See the following example: > > ######### > def tutu(): > > def toto(): > > print a > a = 4 > print a > > a=2 > toto() > > tutu() > ########## > > I obtain the following error: > "UnboundLocalError: local variable 'a' referenced before assignment" > > This is because Python looks in the local context before looking in the > global context. > > The use of "global a" in toto() does not help because global allows to > force Python to look for the variable at the module level. > > So, how to share a variable between intricated functions? You could use a class :) Another often used trick is to have a mutable container-object, like this: def tutu(): a = [2] def toto(): a[0] = 4 toto() Diez From clp2 at rebertia.com Wed Aug 5 06:42:23 2009 From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 03:42:23 -0700 Subject: intricated functions: how to share a variable In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50697b2c0908050342t5ae6feaauc757021a71521b2a@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 3:13 AM, TP wrote: > Hi everybody, > > See the following example: > > ######### > def tutu(): > > ? ?def toto(): > nonlocal a #note: this requires a rather recent version of python > ? ? ? ?print a > ? ? ? ?a = 4 > ? ? ? ?print a > > ? ?a=2 > ? ?toto() > > tutu() > ########## > > I obtain the following error: > "UnboundLocalError: local variable 'a' referenced before assignment" > > This is because Python looks in the local context before looking in the > global context. > > The use of "global a" in toto() does not help because global allows to force > Python to look for the variable at the module level. > > So, how to share a variable between intricated functions? Details: http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3104/ Cheers, Chris -- http://blog.rebertia.com From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com Wed Aug 5 06:42:58 2009 From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (Bearophile) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 03:42:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Overlap in python References: Message-ID: <4f5f1301-d160-4b61-926d-782277b064e9@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> Albert van der Horst: >That is an algorithmic question and has little to do with Python.< Yes, but comp.lang.python isn't comp.lang.c, that kind of questions are perfectly fine here. They help keep this place from becoming boring. Bye, bearophile From __peter__ at web.de Wed Aug 5 06:46:28 2009 From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 12:46:28 +0200 Subject: intricated functions: how to share a variable References: Message-ID: TP wrote: > Hi everybody, > > See the following example: > > ######### > def tutu(): > > def toto(): > > print a > a = 4 > print a > > a=2 > toto() > > tutu() > ########## > > I obtain the following error: > "UnboundLocalError: local variable 'a' referenced before assignment" > > This is because Python looks in the local context before looking in the > global context. > > The use of "global a" in toto() does not help because global allows to > force Python to look for the variable at the module level. > > So, how to share a variable between intricated functions? This limitation is removed in Python 3 with the 'nonlocal' statement: >>> def outer(): ... def inner(): ... nonlocal a ... print(a) ... a = 4 ... print(a) ... a = 2 ... inner() ... print(a) ... >>> outer() 2 4 4 Peter From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com Wed Aug 5 06:47:19 2009 From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (Bearophile) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 03:47:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: intricated functions: how to share a variable References: Message-ID: <9a937d26-2375-4836-9824-d34d9f92d284@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> TP: > def tutu(): > > ? ? def toto(): > > ? ? ? ? print a > ? ? ? ? a = 4 > ? ? ? ? print a > > ? ? a=2 > ? ? toto() > > tutu() > ########## > > I obtain the following error: > "UnboundLocalError: local variable 'a' referenced before assignment" > > This is because Python looks in the local context before looking in the > global context. > > The use of "global a" in toto() does not help because global allows to force > Python to look for the variable at the module level. > > So, how to share a variable between intricated functions? Generally your purpose as a programmer is to write the least intricate code. Because the less tricky it is, the more readable it becomes and also the bug count decreases. So probably a better solution is to just use the normal function semantics: you pass them an argument and you take an argument as return value. Such return value will be the new version of the value you talk about. Python3+ has the "nonlocal" statement that may do what you ask for. But as many other things in Python it must be used with judgment, to avoid writing intricate code. Bye, bearophile From marcusw at cox.net Wed Aug 5 07:13:23 2009 From: marcusw at cox.net (Marcus Wanner) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 07:13:23 -0400 Subject: Overlap in python In-Reply-To: <4A78B19D.4020306@mrabarnett.plus.com> References: <4A78B19D.4020306@mrabarnett.plus.com> Message-ID: On 8/4/2009 6:09 PM, MRAB wrote: > >>> parts = [(5, 9, "a"), (7, 10, "b"), (3, 6, "c"), (15, 20, "d"), > (18, 23, "e")] > >>> parts.sort() > >>> parts > [(3, 6, 'c'), (5, 9, 'a'), (7, 10, 'b'), (15, 20, 'd'), (18, 23, 'e')] > >>> # Merge overlapping intervals. > >>> pos = 1 > >>> while pos < len(parts): > # Merge the pair in parts[pos - 1 : pos + 1] if they overlap. > p, q = parts[pos - 1 : pos + 1] > if p[1] >= q[0]: > parts[pos - 1 : pos + 1] = [(p[0], max(p[1], q[1]), p[2] > + "." + q[2])] > else: > # They don't overlap, so try the next pair. > pos += 1 > > > >>> parts > [(3, 10, 'c.a.b'), (15, 23, 'd.e')] > That's the best solution I've seen so far. It even has input/output formatted as close as is reasonably possible to the format specified. As we would say in googlecode, +1. Marcus From marcusw at cox.net Wed Aug 5 07:21:55 2009 From: marcusw at cox.net (Marcus Wanner) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 07:21:55 -0400 Subject: Using Python to automate builds In-Reply-To: References: <84d9ae10-3aee-40a8-97ac-05799da0de64@f18g2000prf.googlegroups.com> <48e9dcba-5309-4de6-b833-7abec18120e1@d9g2000prh.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: On 8/4/2009 5:52 PM, Philip Semanchuk wrote: > > On Aug 4, 2009, at 5:40 PM, Kosta wrote: > >> On Aug 4, 2:34 pm, Dave Angel wrote: >>> >>> + I have released pyKook 0.0.2. >>> +http://pypi.python.org/pypi/Kook/0.0.2 >>> +http://www.kuwata-lab.com/kook/ >>> +http://www.kuwata-lab.com/kook/pykook-users-guide.html >>> >>> Other possibilities: >>> + http://pypi.python.org/pypi/vellum/ flexible small 'make' >>> alternative >>> >>> + http://code.google.com/p/waf/ >>> >>> + http://code.google.com/p/fabricate/ >>> >>> DaveA- Hide quoted text - >>> >>> - Show quoted text - >> >> Thanks Dave. I had thought about those three options, and was >> honestly hoping for a foruth (I know, some people are never >> satisfied ;). I'll look into pyKook. Thank you for your help. > > Poof! Your wish is granted! =) > > http://www.scons.org/ > > Dunno if you'll find it better, worse or different than the > alternatives, but there it is. > > have fun > P > > I can highly recommend scons. At dolphin-emu, we use it to daily compile a project containing over 500,000 lines of c/c++ code, which is modified very frequently. It works like a charm, and is seamlessly cross- platform (in my experience). However, it might not be exactly the thing you're looking for. Marcus From anthra.norell at bluewin.ch Wed Aug 5 07:28:18 2009 From: anthra.norell at bluewin.ch (Anthra Norell) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 13:28:18 +0200 Subject: How to write replace string for object which will be substituted? [regexp] In-Reply-To: <4A78BC68.2020601@mrabarnett.plus.com> References: <4A78B425.2010604@gmail.com> <4A78BC68.2020601@mrabarnett.plus.com> Message-ID: <4A796CD2.7050009@bluewin.ch> MRAB wrote: > ryniek90 wrote: >> Hi. >> I started learning regexp, and some things goes well, but most of >> them still not. >> >> I've got problem with some regexp. Better post code here: >> >> " >> >>> import re >> >>> mail = '\nname at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] >> mail [$dot$] com\n' >> >>> mail >> '\nname at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] mail >> [$dot$] com\n' >> >>> print mail >> >> name at mail.com >> name1 [at] mail [dot] com >> name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com >> >> >>> maail = re.sub('^\n|$\n', '', mail) >> >>> print maail >> name at mail.com >> name1 [at] mail [dot] com >> name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com >> >>> maail = re.sub(' ', '', maail) >> >>> print maail >> name at mail.com >> name1[at]mail[dot]com >> name2[$at$]mail[$dot$]com >> >>> maail = re.sub('\[at\]|\[\$at\$\]', '@', maail) >> >>> print maail >> name at mail.com >> name1 at mail[dot]com >> name2 at mail[$dot$]com >> >>> maail = re.sub('\[dot\]|\[\$dot\$\]', '.', maail) >> >>> print maail >> name at mail.com >> name1 at mail.com >> name2 at mail.com >> >>> #How must i write the replace string to replace all this >> regexp's with just ONE command, in string 'mail' ? >> >>> maail = re.sub('^\n|$\n| >> |\[at\]|\[\$at\$\]|\[dot\]|\[\$dot\$\]', *?*, mail) >> " >> >> How must i write that replace pattern (look at question mark), to >> maek that substituion work? I didn't saw anything helpful while >> reading Re doc and HowTo (from Python Doc). I tried with >> 'MatchObject.group()' but something gone wrong - didn't wrote it right. >> Is there more user friendly HowTo for Python Re, than this? >> >> I'm new to programming an regexp, sorry for inconvenience. >> > I don't think you can do it in one regex, nor would I want to. Just use > the string's replace() method. > > >>> mail = '\nname at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] > mail [$dot$] com\n' > >>> mail > '\nname at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] > com\n' > >>> print mail > > name at mail.com > name1 [at] mail [dot] com > name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com > > >>> maail = mail.strip() > name at mail.com > name1 [at] mail [dot] com > name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com > > >>> maail = maail.replace(' ', '') > >>> print maail > name at mail.com > name1[at]mail[dot]com > name2[$at$]mail[$dot$]com > >>> maail = maail.replace('[at]', '@').replace('[$at$]', '@') > >>> print maail > name at mail.com > name1 at mail[dot]com > name2 at mail[$dot$]com > >>> maail = maail.replace('[dot]', '.').replace('[$dot$]', '.') > >>> print maail > name at mail.com > name1 at mail.com > name2 at mail.com This is a good learning exercise demonstrating the impracticality of regular expressions in a given situation. In the light of the fascination regular expressions seem to exert in general, one might conclude that knowing regular expressions in essence is knowing when not to use them. There is nothing wrong with cascading substitutions through multiple expressions. The OP's solution wrapped up in a function and streamlined for needless regex overkill might look something like this: def translate (s): s1 = s.strip () # Instead of: s1 = re.sub ('^\n|$\n', '', s) s2 = s1.replace (' ', '') # Instead of: s2 = re.sub (' ', '', s1) s3 = re.sub ('\[at\]|\[\$at\$\]', '@', s2) s4 = re.sub ('\[dot\]|\[\$dot\$\]', '.', s3) return s4 print translate (mail) # Tested MRAB's solution using replace () avoids needless regex complexity, but doesn't simplify tedious coding if the number of substitutions is significant. Some time ago I proposed a little module I made to alleviate the tedium. It would handle this case like this: import SE Translator = SE.SE ( ' (32)= [at]=@ [$at$]=@ [dot]=. [$dot$]=. ' ) print Translator (mail.strip ()) # Tested So SE.SE compiles a string composed of any number of substitution definitions into an object that translates anything given it. In a running speed contest it would surely come in last, although in most cases the disadvantage would be imperceptible. Another matter is coding speed. Here the advantage is obvious, even with a set of substitutions as small as this one, let alone with sets in the tens or even hundreds. One inconspicuous but significant feature of SE is that it handles precedence correctly if targets overlap (upstream over downstream and long over short). As far as I know there's nothing in the Python system handling substitution precedence. It always needs to be hand-coded from one case to the next and that isn't exactly trivial. SE can be downloaded from http://pypi.python.org/pypi/SE/2.3. Frederic From joncle at googlemail.com Wed Aug 5 07:40:05 2009 From: joncle at googlemail.com (Jon Clements) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 04:40:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: How to write replace string for object which will be substituted? [regexp] References: <4A78B425.2010604@gmail.com> <45b7bc73-9c60-4da5-beda-1c2536add738@c1g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: On 5 Aug, 07:53, ryniek wrote: > On 5 Sie, 00:55, MRAB wrote: > > > > > ryniek90 wrote: > > > Hi. > > > I started learning regexp, and some things goes well, but most of them > > > still not. > > > > I've got problem with some regexp. Better post code here: > > > > " > > > ?>>> import re > > > ?>>> mail = '\nn... at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] > > > mail [$dot$] com\n' > > > ?>>> mail > > > '\nn... at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] > > > com\n' > > > ?>>> print mail > > > > n... at mail.com > > > name1 [at] mail [dot] com > > > name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com > > > > ?>>> maail = re.sub('^\n|$\n', '', mail) > > > ?>>> print maail > > > n... at mail.com > > > name1 [at] mail [dot] com > > > name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com > > > ?>>> maail = re.sub(' ', '', maail) > > > ?>>> print maail > > > n... at mail.com > > > name1[at]mail[dot]com > > > name2[$at$]mail[$dot$]com > > > ?>>> maail = re.sub('\[at\]|\[\$at\$\]', '@', maail) > > > ?>>> print maail > > > n... at mail.com > > > name1 at mail[dot]com > > > name2 at mail[$dot$]com > > > ?>>> maail = re.sub('\[dot\]|\[\$dot\$\]', '.', maail) > > > ?>>> print maail > > > n... at mail.com > > > na... at mail.com > > > na... at mail.com > > > ?>>> #How must i write the replace string to replace all this regexp's > > > with just ONE command, in string 'mail' ? > > > ?>>> maail = re.sub('^\n|$\n| |\[at\]|\[\$at\$\]|\[dot\]|\[\$dot\$\]', > > > *?*, mail) > > > " > > > > How must i write that replace pattern (look at question mark), to maek > > > that substituion work? I didn't saw anything helpful while reading Re > > > doc and HowTo (from Python Doc). I tried with 'MatchObject.group()' but > > > something gone wrong - didn't wrote it right. > > > Is there more user friendly HowTo for Python Re, than this? > > > > I'm new to programming an regexp, sorry for inconvenience. > > > I don't think you can do it in one regex, nor would I want to. Just use > > the string's replace() method. > > > ?>>> mail = '\nn... at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] > > mail [$dot$] com\n' > > ?>>> mail > > '\nn... at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] > > com\n' > > ?>>> print mail > > > n... at mail.com > > name1 [at] mail [dot] com > > name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com > > > ?>>> maail = mail.strip() > > n... at mail.com > > name1 [at] mail [dot] com > > name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com > > > ?>>> maail = maail.replace(' ', '') > > ?>>> print maail > > n... at mail.com > > name1[at]mail[dot]com > > name2[$at$]mail[$dot$]com > > ?>>> maail = maail.replace('[at]', '@').replace('[$at$]', '@') > > ?>>> print maail > > n... at mail.com > > name1 at mail[dot]com > > name2 at mail[$dot$]com > > ?>>> maail = maail.replace('[dot]', '.').replace('[$dot$]', '.') > > ?>>> print maail > > n... at mail.com > > na... at mail.com > > na... at mail.com > > Too bad, I thought that the almighty re module could do anything, but > it failed with this (or maybe re can do what i want, but only few > people knows how to force him to that? ?:P). > But with help of MRAB, i choose The 3rd Point of Python's Zen - > "Simple is better than complex." > > " > > >>> mail = '\nn... at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com\n' > >>> mail > > '\nn... at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] > com\n' > > >>> print mail > > n... at mail.com > name1 [at] mail [dot] com > name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com > > >>> maail = mail.lstrip().rstrip().replace(' ', '').replace('[dot]', '.').replace('[$dot$]', '.').replace('[at]', '@').replace('[$at$]', '@') > >>> print maail > > n... at mail.com > na... at mail.com > na... at mail.com > > >>> #Did it ?:) > > " > > Thanks again ? :) Short of writing a dedicated function I might be tempted to write this as: EMAIL_REPLACEMENTS = ( ('[at]', '@'), ('[dot]', '.'), ... ) for src, dest in EMAIL_REPLACEMENTS: mail = mail.replace(src, dest) Apart from taste reasons, it keeps the replaces more obvious (and accessible via a variable rather than embedded in the code), enables swapping the order or adding/removing easier. Jon From cournape at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 08:08:18 2009 From: cournape at gmail.com (David Cournapeau) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 21:08:18 +0900 Subject: Using Python to automate builds In-Reply-To: <200908050956.33995.hendrik@microcorp.co.za> References: <84d9ae10-3aee-40a8-97ac-05799da0de64@f18g2000prf.googlegroups.com> <200908050956.33995.hendrik@microcorp.co.za> Message-ID: <5b8d13220908050508n32f05bep4c275cec14914588@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 4:56 PM, Hendrik van Rooyen wrote: > On Tuesday 04 August 2009 21:13:10 Kosta wrote: >> I am a Python newbie, tasked with automating (researching) building >> Windows drivers using the WDK build environment. ?I've been looking >> into Python for this (instead of writing a bunch of batch files). >> > Why do you not use make and a makefile - it was designed to > do exactly this. Because make is a pain on windows (lack of a proper shell) ? cheers, David From jfine at pytex.org Wed Aug 5 08:17:44 2009 From: jfine at pytex.org (Jonathan Fine) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 13:17:44 +0100 Subject: Do anyone here use Python *embedded* in a database? Message-ID: Hi I'm writing a talk that compares embed and extend, and wondered if anyone here ever used the Python *embedded* in a database server. http://twistedmatrix.com/users/glyph/rant/extendit.html Web frameworks (such as Django) use extend, to import an extension module that makes a connection to a database. If you have used embed, you might have consulted a page such as: http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.3/interactive/plpython-funcs.html -- Jonathan From ryniek90 at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 08:21:43 2009 From: ryniek90 at gmail.com (ryniek) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 05:21:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: How to write replace string for object which will be substituted? [regexp] References: <4A78B425.2010604@gmail.com> <4A78BC68.2020601@mrabarnett.plus.com> Message-ID: <0cde7cf6-0365-44da-b044-9066d522fa2d@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> On 5 Sie, 13:28, Anthra Norell wrote: > MRAB wrote: > > ryniek90 wrote: > >> Hi. > >> I started learning regexp, and some things goes well, but most of > >> them still not. > > >> I've got problem with some regexp. Better post code here: > > >> " > >> ?>>> import re > >> ?>>> mail = '\nn... at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] > >> mail [$dot$] com\n' > >> ?>>> mail > >> '\nn... at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] mail > >> [$dot$] com\n' > >> ?>>> print mail > > >> n... at mail.com > >> name1 [at] mail [dot] com > >> name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com > > >> ?>>> maail = re.sub('^\n|$\n', '', mail) > >> ?>>> print maail > >> n... at mail.com > >> name1 [at] mail [dot] com > >> name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com > >> ?>>> maail = re.sub(' ', '', maail) > >> ?>>> print maail > >> n... at mail.com > >> name1[at]mail[dot]com > >> name2[$at$]mail[$dot$]com > >> ?>>> maail = re.sub('\[at\]|\[\$at\$\]', '@', maail) > >> ?>>> print maail > >> n... at mail.com > >> name1 at mail[dot]com > >> name2 at mail[$dot$]com > >> ?>>> maail = re.sub('\[dot\]|\[\$dot\$\]', '.', maail) > >> ?>>> print maail > >> n... at mail.com > >> na... at mail.com > >> na... at mail.com > >> ?>>> #How must i write the replace string to replace all this > >> regexp's with just ONE command, in string 'mail' ? > >> ?>>> maail = re.sub('^\n|$\n| > >> |\[at\]|\[\$at\$\]|\[dot\]|\[\$dot\$\]', *?*, mail) > >> " > > >> How must i write that replace pattern (look at question mark), to > >> maek that substituion work? I didn't saw anything helpful while > >> reading Re doc and HowTo (from Python Doc). I tried with > >> 'MatchObject.group()' but something gone wrong - didn't wrote it right. > >> Is there more user friendly HowTo for Python Re, than this? > > >> I'm new to programming an regexp, sorry for inconvenience. > > > I don't think you can do it in one regex, nor would I want to. Just use > > the string's replace() method. > > > >>> mail = '\nn... at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] > > mail [$dot$] com\n' > > >>> mail > > '\nn... at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] > > com\n' > > >>> print mail > > > n... at mail.com > > name1 [at] mail [dot] com > > name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com > > > >>> maail = mail.strip() > > n... at mail.com > > name1 [at] mail [dot] com > > name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com > > > >>> maail = maail.replace(' ', '') > > >>> print maail > > n... at mail.com > > name1[at]mail[dot]com > > name2[$at$]mail[$dot$]com > > >>> maail = maail.replace('[at]', '@').replace('[$at$]', '@') > > >>> print maail > > n... at mail.com > > name1 at mail[dot]com > > name2 at mail[$dot$]com > > >>> maail = maail.replace('[dot]', '.').replace('[$dot$]', '.') > > >>> print maail > > n... at mail.com > > na... at mail.com > > na... at mail.com > > This is a good learning exercise demonstrating the impracticality of > regular expressions in a given situation. In the light of the > fascination regular expressions seem to exert in general, one might > conclude that knowing regular expressions in essence is knowing when not > to use them. > > There is nothing wrong with cascading substitutions through multiple > expressions. The OP's solution wrapped up in a function and streamlined > for needless regex overkill might look something like this: > > def translate (s): > ? ?s1 = s.strip () ? ? # Instead of: s1 = re.sub ('^\n|$\n', '', s) > ? ?s2 = s1.replace (' ', '') ? ?# Instead of: s2 = re.sub (' ', '', s1) > ? ?s3 = re.sub ('\[at\]|\[\$at\$\]', '@', s2) > ? ?s4 = re.sub ('\[dot\]|\[\$dot\$\]', '.', s3) > ? ?return s4 > > print translate (mail) ? # Tested > > MRAB's solution using replace () avoids needless regex complexity, but > doesn't simplify tedious coding if the number of substitutions is > significant. Some time ago I proposed a little module I made to > alleviate the tedium. It would handle this case like this: > > import SE > Translator = SE.SE ( ' (32)= [at]=@ [$at$]=@ [dot]=. [$dot$]=. ' ) > print Translator (mail.strip ()) ? # Tested > > So SE.SE compiles a string composed of any number of substitution > definitions into an object that translates anything given it. In a > running speed contest it would surely come in last, although in most > cases the disadvantage would be imperceptible. Another matter is coding > speed. Here the advantage is obvious, even with a set of substitutions > as small as this one, let alone with sets in the tens or even hundreds. > One inconspicuous but significant feature of SE is that it handles > precedence correctly if targets overlap (upstream over downstream and > long over short). As far as I know there's nothing in the Python system > handling substitution precedence. It always needs to be hand-coded from > one case to the next and that isn't exactly trivial. > > SE can be downloaded fromhttp://pypi.python.org/pypi/SE/2.3. > > Frederic Thanks again. :) I saw that MRAB is actively developing new implementation of re module. MRAB: You think it'd be good idea adding to Your project some best features of SE module? I didn't seen yet features of Your re module but will try to find time even today, to see what's going on. Greets From ryniek90 at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 08:21:56 2009 From: ryniek90 at gmail.com (ryniek) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 05:21:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: How to write replace string for object which will be substituted? [regexp] References: <4A78B425.2010604@gmail.com> <4A78BC68.2020601@mrabarnett.plus.com> Message-ID: On 5 Sie, 13:28, Anthra Norell wrote: > MRAB wrote: > > ryniek90 wrote: > >> Hi. > >> I started learning regexp, and some things goes well, but most of > >> them still not. > > >> I've got problem with some regexp. Better post code here: > > >> " > >> ?>>> import re > >> ?>>> mail = '\nn... at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] > >> mail [$dot$] com\n' > >> ?>>> mail > >> '\nn... at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] mail > >> [$dot$] com\n' > >> ?>>> print mail > > >> n... at mail.com > >> name1 [at] mail [dot] com > >> name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com > > >> ?>>> maail = re.sub('^\n|$\n', '', mail) > >> ?>>> print maail > >> n... at mail.com > >> name1 [at] mail [dot] com > >> name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com > >> ?>>> maail = re.sub(' ', '', maail) > >> ?>>> print maail > >> n... at mail.com > >> name1[at]mail[dot]com > >> name2[$at$]mail[$dot$]com > >> ?>>> maail = re.sub('\[at\]|\[\$at\$\]', '@', maail) > >> ?>>> print maail > >> n... at mail.com > >> name1 at mail[dot]com > >> name2 at mail[$dot$]com > >> ?>>> maail = re.sub('\[dot\]|\[\$dot\$\]', '.', maail) > >> ?>>> print maail > >> n... at mail.com > >> na... at mail.com > >> na... at mail.com > >> ?>>> #How must i write the replace string to replace all this > >> regexp's with just ONE command, in string 'mail' ? > >> ?>>> maail = re.sub('^\n|$\n| > >> |\[at\]|\[\$at\$\]|\[dot\]|\[\$dot\$\]', *?*, mail) > >> " > > >> How must i write that replace pattern (look at question mark), to > >> maek that substituion work? I didn't saw anything helpful while > >> reading Re doc and HowTo (from Python Doc). I tried with > >> 'MatchObject.group()' but something gone wrong - didn't wrote it right. > >> Is there more user friendly HowTo for Python Re, than this? > > >> I'm new to programming an regexp, sorry for inconvenience. > > > I don't think you can do it in one regex, nor would I want to. Just use > > the string's replace() method. > > > >>> mail = '\nn... at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] > > mail [$dot$] com\n' > > >>> mail > > '\nn... at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] > > com\n' > > >>> print mail > > > n... at mail.com > > name1 [at] mail [dot] com > > name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com > > > >>> maail = mail.strip() > > n... at mail.com > > name1 [at] mail [dot] com > > name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com > > > >>> maail = maail.replace(' ', '') > > >>> print maail > > n... at mail.com > > name1[at]mail[dot]com > > name2[$at$]mail[$dot$]com > > >>> maail = maail.replace('[at]', '@').replace('[$at$]', '@') > > >>> print maail > > n... at mail.com > > name1 at mail[dot]com > > name2 at mail[$dot$]com > > >>> maail = maail.replace('[dot]', '.').replace('[$dot$]', '.') > > >>> print maail > > n... at mail.com > > na... at mail.com > > na... at mail.com > > This is a good learning exercise demonstrating the impracticality of > regular expressions in a given situation. In the light of the > fascination regular expressions seem to exert in general, one might > conclude that knowing regular expressions in essence is knowing when not > to use them. > > There is nothing wrong with cascading substitutions through multiple > expressions. The OP's solution wrapped up in a function and streamlined > for needless regex overkill might look something like this: > > def translate (s): > ? ?s1 = s.strip () ? ? # Instead of: s1 = re.sub ('^\n|$\n', '', s) > ? ?s2 = s1.replace (' ', '') ? ?# Instead of: s2 = re.sub (' ', '', s1) > ? ?s3 = re.sub ('\[at\]|\[\$at\$\]', '@', s2) > ? ?s4 = re.sub ('\[dot\]|\[\$dot\$\]', '.', s3) > ? ?return s4 > > print translate (mail) ? # Tested > > MRAB's solution using replace () avoids needless regex complexity, but > doesn't simplify tedious coding if the number of substitutions is > significant. Some time ago I proposed a little module I made to > alleviate the tedium. It would handle this case like this: > > import SE > Translator = SE.SE ( ' (32)= [at]=@ [$at$]=@ [dot]=. [$dot$]=. ' ) > print Translator (mail.strip ()) ? # Tested > > So SE.SE compiles a string composed of any number of substitution > definitions into an object that translates anything given it. In a > running speed contest it would surely come in last, although in most > cases the disadvantage would be imperceptible. Another matter is coding > speed. Here the advantage is obvious, even with a set of substitutions > as small as this one, let alone with sets in the tens or even hundreds. > One inconspicuous but significant feature of SE is that it handles > precedence correctly if targets overlap (upstream over downstream and > long over short). As far as I know there's nothing in the Python system > handling substitution precedence. It always needs to be hand-coded from > one case to the next and that isn't exactly trivial. > > SE can be downloaded fromhttp://pypi.python.org/pypi/SE/2.3. > > Frederic Thanks again. :) I saw that MRAB is actively developing new implementation of re module. MRAB: You think it'd be good idea adding to Your project some best features of SE module? I didn't seen yet features of Your re module but will try to find time even today, to see what's going on. Greets From piet at cs.uu.nl Wed Aug 5 08:28:15 2009 From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 14:28:15 +0200 Subject: Special chars with HTMLParser References: <5c6941f8-c53e-4518-8ce5-83be64689307@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: >>>>> Fafounet (F) wrote: >F> Hello, >F> I am parsing a web page with special chars such as é (which >F> stands for ?). >F> I know I can have the unicode character ? from unicode >F> ("\xe9","iso-8859-1") >F> but with those extra characters I don' t know. >F> I tried to implement handle_charref within HTMLParser without success. >F> Furthermore, if I have the data abécd, handle_data will get "ab", >F> handle_charref will get xe9 and then handle_data doesn't have the end >F> of the string ("cd"). The character references indicate Unicode ordinals, not iso-8859-1 characters. In your example it will give the proper character because iso-8859-1 coincides with the first part of the Unicode ordinals, but for character outside of iso-8859-1 it will fail. This should give you an idea: from htmlentitydefs import name2codepoint ... def handle_charref(self, name): if name.startswith('x'): num = int(name[1:], 16) else: num = int(name, 10) print 'char:', repr(unichr(num)) def handle_entityref(self, name): print 'char:', unichr(name2codepoint[name]) If your HTML may be illegal you should add some exception handling. -- Piet van Oostrum URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4] Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org From Tribulations at Paralleles.invalid Wed Aug 5 08:33:03 2009 From: Tribulations at Paralleles.invalid (TP) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 14:33:03 +0200 Subject: intricated functions: how to share a variable References: <9a937d26-2375-4836-9824-d34d9f92d284@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Bearophile wrote: > So probably a better solution is to just use the normal function > semantics: you pass them an argument and you take an argument as > return value. Such return value will be the new version of the value > you talk about. Thanks for your answer. Yes, it is better like this. My problem is that I cannot get the return values of the function and affect it to some variable, because the function is called via a "signal-slot" connection of PyQt4, not by an explicit inline function call. For example: ######### def tutu(): def toto(): print a a = 4 print a a=2 # ... # definition of some graphical QPushButton "button" # ... # ... self.connect( button, SIGNAL( "clicked" ), toto ) tutu() ########## Then, as advised Diez, perhaps the best solution is to have "true" global variables by using a class and defining the variable a as a member self.a of the class. By doing like this, a will be known everywhere. Julien -- python -c "print ''.join([chr(154 - ord(c)) for c in '*9(9&(18%.\ 9&1+,\'Z4(55l4('])" "When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong." (first law of AC Clarke) From piet at cs.uu.nl Wed Aug 5 08:34:31 2009 From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 14:34:31 +0200 Subject: trouble with complex numbers References: <24821423.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: >>>>> Christian Heimes (CH) wrote: >CH> You can write your own phase() function. This function is mostly correct >CH> unless either the real and/or the imag part is NaN or INF. >CH> from math import atan2 >CH> def phase(z): >CH> z += 1j # convert int, long, float to complex That should be z += 0j >CH> return atan2(z.imag, z.real) -- Piet van Oostrum URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4] Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org From kpalamartchouk at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 08:50:04 2009 From: kpalamartchouk at gmail.com (kpal) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 05:50:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Datetime with float seconds Message-ID: Hello Everybody, The standard datetime has 1 microsecond granularity. My application needs finer time resolution, preferably float seconds. Is there an alternative to the out-of-the-box datetime? Timezone support is not essential. Thanks, From nick.m.daly at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 08:56:14 2009 From: nick.m.daly at gmail.com (Nick Daly) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 07:56:14 -0500 Subject: The Perils of PyContract (and Generators) Message-ID: <4A79816E.5050106@gmail.com> On Wed, 5 Aug 2009 03:06 pm Nick Daly wrote: > The problem actually lies in the contract. Generally, the PyContract > shouldn't affect the return values or in any way modify the code, which > it doesn't, as long as the function returns a list values (the way the > code had in fact originally been written). However, the contract > mentioned above is actually quite wrong for a generator. Yes, because you are conflating the items yielded from the generator with the generator object returned from the generator function "find_files". You can't look inside the generator object without using up whichever items you look at. [...] > Correcting the above example involves doing nothing more than > simplifying the contract: > > post: > name in __return__ That can't be right, not unless PyContract is doing something I don't expect. I expect that would be equivalent of: 'fish' in which should fail: >>> __return__ = find_files('fish') # a generator object >>> 'fish' in __return__ False >>> >>> __return__ = find_files('fish') >>> __return__ = list(__return__) >>> 'fish' in __return__ False >>> __return__ ['one fish', 'two fish', 'red fish', 'blue fish'] Of course, I may be mistaking what PyContract is doing. ----- No, you're absolutely right, I realized the error in my email moments after sending it, I was just hoping no one was paying enough attention to notice. I'm essentially asking PyContract to operate outside of the generator (it needs to check the return value of a generator, without changing its internal state), which doesn't seem to have an easy solution unless generators have some fantastic reverse_states function that I haven't heard about. I suppose one could be built, saving off the values of all local variables for later restoration, but that would still be dependent on the state of the rest of the machine and could not guarantee giving the same answer twice in a row. So, the moral of the story seems to be that PyContract's post-return value checking doesn't mix with generators at all. Sort of sad, because they're two neat flavors that would go great together but are instead technically incompatible. A decent set of unit-tests would accomplish the same thing much less destructively anyway. Nick From fafounet at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 09:03:46 2009 From: fafounet at gmail.com (Fafounet) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 06:03:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Special chars with HTMLParser References: <5c6941f8-c53e-4518-8ce5-83be64689307@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <69835fa3-c6a0-44d3-bba2-5e3117102590@k30g2000yqf.googlegroups.com> Thank you, now I can get the correct character. Now when I have the string abécd I can get ab then ? thanks to your function and then cd. But how is it possible to know that cd is still the same word ? Fabien > The character references indicate Unicode ordinals, not iso-8859-1 > characters. In your example it will give the proper character because > iso-8859-1 coincides with the first part of the Unicode ordinals, but > for character outside of iso-8859-1 it will fail. > > This should give you an idea: > > from htmlentitydefs import name2codepoint > ... > ? ? def handle_charref(self, name): > ? ? ? ? if name.startswith('x'): > ? ? ? ? ? ? num = int(name[1:], 16) > ? ? ? ? else: > ? ? ? ? ? ? num = int(name, 10) > ? ? ? ? print 'char:', repr(unichr(num)) > > ? ? def handle_entityref(self, name): > ? ? ? ? print 'char:', unichr(name2codepoint[name]) > > If your HTML may be illegal you should add some exception handling. > -- > Piet van Oostrum > URL:http://pietvanoostrum.com[PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4] > Private email: p... at vanoostrum.org From contact at xavierho.com Wed Aug 5 09:15:53 2009 From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 23:15:53 +1000 Subject: Datetime with float seconds In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2d56febf0908050615i1d8f5137v3295c1ab574067c5@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 10:50 PM, kpal wrote: > Hello Everybody, > > The standard datetime has 1 microsecond granularity. My application > needs finer time resolution, preferably float seconds. Is there an > alternative to the out-of-the-box datetime? Timezone support is not > essential. This is a little outdated, but: >>>from time import time Usually gets me things like #output Run time: 0.0279998779297 seconds. So... that might be what you want. - Xavier -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wuwei23 at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 09:35:19 2009 From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 06:35:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: intricated functions: how to share a variable References: <9a937d26-2375-4836-9824-d34d9f92d284@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: TP wrote: > Then, as advised Diez, perhaps the best solution is to have "true" global > variables by using a class and defining the variable a as a member self.a > of the class. By doing like this, a will be known everywhere. Or, as Bearophile suggested, you could use the standard way of passing arguments into a function: >>> def tutu(): ... a = 2 ... def toto(a=a): ... print 'toto', a ... a = 4 ... print 'toto', a ... print 'tutu', a ... toto() ... print 'tutu', a ... >>> tutu() tutu 2 toto 2 toto 4 tutu 2 You could also just do 'toto(a)', but as you're trying to create a closure here, binding the external scope 'a' to toto via the default argument will (probably) do what you need. From jnoller at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 09:40:57 2009 From: jnoller at gmail.com (Jesse Noller) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 06:40:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Is this a bug in multiprocessing or in my script? References: <2f26a239-2f06-40f8-b0f0-d2e55edbe5e5@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <74bd61ff-c666-4f78-9441-5422e858ea0b@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> On Aug 5, 1:21?am, sturlamolden wrote: > On Aug 5, 4:37 am, erikcw wrote: > > > It's not always the same traceback, but they are always short like > > this. ?I'm running Python 2.6.2 on Ubuntu 9.04. > > > Any idea how I can debug this? > > In my experience,multiprocessingis fragile. Scripts tend fo fail for > no obvious reason, case processes to be orphaned and linger, system- > wide resource leaks, etc. For example,multiprocessinguses os._exit > to stop a spawned process, even though it inevitably results in > resource leaks on Linux (it should use sys.exit). Ga?l Varoquaux and I > noticed this when we implemented shared memory ndarrays for numpy; we > consistently got memory leaks with System V IPC for no obvious reason. > Even after Jesse Noller was informed of the problem (about half a year > ago), the bug still lingers. It is easy editmultiprocessing's > forking.py file on you own, but bugs like this is a pain in the ass, > and I suspectmultiprocessinghas many of them. Of course unless you > show us you whole script, identifying the source of your bug will be > impossible. But it may very likely be inmultiprocessingas well. The > quality of this module is not impressing. I am beginning to think thatmultiprocessingshould never have made it into the Python standard > library. The GIL cannot be that bad! If you can't stand the GIL, get a > Unix (or Mac, Linux, Cygwin) and use os.fork. Or simply switch to a > non-GIL Python: IronPython or Jython. > > Allow me to show you something better. With os.fork we can write code > like this: > > class parallel(object): > > ? ?def __enter__(self): > ? ? ? ?# call os.fork > > ? ?def __exit__(self, exc_type, exc_value, traceback): > ? ? ? ?# call sys.exit in the child processes and > ? ? ? ?# os.waitpid in the parent > > ? ?def __call__(self, iterable): > ? ? ? ?# return different sub-subsequences depending on > ? ? ? ?# child or parent status > > with parallel() as p: > ? ? # parallel block starts here > > ? ? for item in p(iterable): > ? ? ? ? # whatever > > ? ? # parallel block ends here > > This makes parallel code a lot cleaner than anything you can do withmultiprocessing, allowing you to use constructs similar to OpenMP. > Further, if you make 'parallel' a dummy context manager, you can > develop and test the algorithms serially. The only drawback is that > you have to use Cygwin to get os.fork on Windows, and forking will be > less efficient (no copy-on-write optimization). Well, this is just one > example of why Windows sucks from the perspective of the programmer. > But it also shows that you can do much better by notusingmultiprocessingat all. > > The only case I can think of wheremultiprocessingwould be usesful, > is I/O bound code on Windows. But here you will almost always resort > to C extension modules. For I/O bound code, Python tends to give you a > 200x speed penalty over C. If you are resorting to C anyway, you can > just use OpenMP in C for your parallel processing. We can thus forget > aboutmultiprocessinghere as well, given that we have access to the C > code. If we don't, it is still very likely that the C code releases > the GIL, and we can get away withusingPython threads instead ofmultiprocessing. > > IMHO, if you areusingmultiprocessing, you are very likely to have a > design problem. > > Regards, > Sturla Sturla; That bug was fixed unless I'm missing something. Also, patches and continued bug reports are welcome. jesse From wuwei23 at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 09:41:56 2009 From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 06:41:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: trouble with complex numbers References: <24821423.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: Piet van Oostrum wrote: > That should be z += 0j Pardon my ignorance, but could anyone explain the rationale behind using 'j' to indicate the imaginary number (as opposed to the more intuitive 'i')? (Not that I've had much call to use complex numbers but I'm curious....) From jjposner at optimum.net Wed Aug 5 09:46:16 2009 From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 09:46:16 -0400 Subject: Announcing PythonTurtle In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A798D28.5060004@optimum.net> >> OK, then why the statements "from turtle import *" in the modules >> turtleprocess.py and turtlewidget.py? >> Yes, I see that now (he said meekly, too sheepish to complain about being misled by an unfortunate naming choice). Tx, John From casevh at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 09:50:17 2009 From: casevh at gmail.com (casevh) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 06:50:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Turtle Graphics are incompatible with gmpy References: <0002b5d3$0$2970$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Message-ID: <5a4ab236-4cbf-4895-935a-5fdc712f0d08@u38g2000pro.googlegroups.com> On Aug 5, 12:19?am, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Wed, 5 Aug 2009 03:49 pm Mensanator wrote: > > > In 3.1, tracing is now a screen attribute, not a turtle atribute. > > I have no idea why > > > ? tooter = turtle.Turtle() > > ? tooter.tracer(False) > > > doesn't give me an error (I thought silent errors were a bad thing). > > What makes it an error? Do you consider the following an error? > > >>> class Test: > > ... ? ? pass > ... > > >>> t = Test() > >>> t.tracer = 5 > > Perhaps you mean, it's an API change you didn't know about, and you wish to > protest that Turtle Graphics made an incompatible API change without > telling you? > > > Naturally, having tracing on caused my program to crash. > > It seg faulted or raised an exception? > > [...] > > > Unfortunately, that calculation of nhops is illegal if diffsq is > > an .mpf (gmpy floating point). Otherwise, you get > > How does diffsq get to be a mpf? Are gmpy floats supposed to be supported? > > -- > Steven The root cause of the error is that GMP, the underlying library for gmpy, provides only the basic floating point operations. gmpy implements a very limited exponentiation function. Python's math library will convert an mpf to a float automatically so I think the revised calculation for nhops should work with either any numerical type that supports __float__. casevh From hendrik at microcorp.co.za Wed Aug 5 10:29:39 2009 From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 16:29:39 +0200 Subject: Using Python to automate builds In-Reply-To: <5b8d13220908050508n32f05bep4c275cec14914588@mail.gmail.com> References: <84d9ae10-3aee-40a8-97ac-05799da0de64@f18g2000prf.googlegroups.com> <200908050956.33995.hendrik@microcorp.co.za> <5b8d13220908050508n32f05bep4c275cec14914588@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200908051629.39417.hendrik@microcorp.co.za> On Wednesday 05 August 2009 14:08:18 David Cournapeau wrote: > On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 4:56 PM, Hendrik van > > Rooyen wrote: > > On Tuesday 04 August 2009 21:13:10 Kosta wrote: > >> I am a Python newbie, tasked with automating (researching) building > >> Windows drivers using the WDK build environment. ?I've been looking > >> into Python for this (instead of writing a bunch of batch files). > > > > Why do you not use make and a makefile - it was designed to > > do exactly this. > > Because make is a pain on windows (lack of a proper shell) ? Well, you could always use Dosbox - I am doing exactly that on Linux to be able to run some old DOS based assembler tools. It will run on windows too, they claim. And it is very simple to use too - no fancy fidgeting, all you have to do is to point it at a directory that becomes your "C" drive. Bit slow - but hey, nobody's perfect. - Hendrik From contact at xavierho.com Wed Aug 5 10:32:15 2009 From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 00:32:15 +1000 Subject: Subclassing Python's dict In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2d56febf0908050732i7792bf7ft32accf1bc1157421@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 11:51 AM, Sergey Simonenko wrote: > I subclass builtin 'dict' in my application and experience some problems > with it. > You should subclass collections.UserDict, and not the default dict class. Refer to the collections module. Also, the ABC MutableMapping might be of your interest. > Another guy have reported me that he experiences similar problems with > subclassing builtin 'list'. Similarly, UserList is what you should subclass. HTH, Ching-Yun "Xavier" Ho, Technical Artist Contact Information Mobile: (+61) 04 3335 4748 Skype ID: SpaXe85 Email: contact at xavierho.com Website: http://xavierho.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From joncle at googlemail.com Wed Aug 5 10:32:37 2009 From: joncle at googlemail.com (Jon Clements) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 07:32:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Do anyone here use Python *embedded* in a database? References: Message-ID: <767b6862-065f-480a-82f5-ed3aa35bf84d@n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> On 5 Aug, 13:17, Jonathan Fine wrote: > Hi > > I'm writing a talk that compares embed and extend, and wondered if > anyone here ever used the Python *embedded* in a database server. > ? ? ?http://twistedmatrix.com/users/glyph/rant/extendit.html > > Web frameworks (such as Django) use extend, to import an extension > module that makes a connection to a database. > > If you have used embed, you might have consulted a page such as: > ? ? ?http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.3/interactive/plpython-funcs.html > > -- > Jonathan Yup, have used plpythonu within postgres without too many problems. Although I do recall once that using the CSV module to load and filter external data, did consume a massive amount of memory. Even though the entire procedure was iterator based -- never did work out if it was postgres caching, or some other weird stuff. [That was about 2 years ago though] Jon. From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid Wed Aug 5 10:39:52 2009 From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 16:39:52 +0200 Subject: Subclassing Python's dict In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4a7999b1$0$306$426a74cc@news.free.fr> Sergey Simonenko a ?crit : > Hi, > > I subclass builtin 'dict' in my application and experience some problems > with it. > > The whole issue is that I should redefine 'setdefault' and 'update' > methods after redefining '__setitem__' or/and '__delitem__', > otherwise 'update' and 'setdefault' ignore redefined '__setitem__' and > use builtin dict's one so dict looks kinda like a black box. > > Another guy have reported me that he experiences similar problems with > subclassing builtin 'list'. I indeed notice this behaviour here (Python 2.6.2). I'm afraid it has to do with some optimization tricks (dict being the very fundamental data structure in Python, it has to be higly optimized). From af1ing at seznam.cz Wed Aug 5 10:41:05 2009 From: af1ing at seznam.cz (Rog) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 07:41:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: http access produces 503 Message-ID: <3b5ab07c-7b0b-4d23-965b-192dc86cf6ff@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> I am porting a simple code from Perl, the website asks for usr/pwd and the server's side Perl script makes atemp ftp dir for file upload. The original Perl script connects okay, does its job. The same URL stuffed into FF3 performs the same way. My Python script I am sweating out for past four days (noob!) gets consistently "503", even with user agen set to: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; it; rv:1.8.1.11) Gecko/20071127 Firefox/2.0.0.11. Snippets of relevant code below. Please, help me understand how this same code lets me log in into my router usr/pwd running .asp, but this !@#$% perl script returns to me w/503 c*ap? Thank you. Do I need to set any proxy? The server is on intranet and the FF3 is set to proxy. The original Perl script did not use any proxy setting. 


url = http://example.com/ftpsetup.pl?username=boofa&nodeid=42
#########################################################
# create a password manager
    password_mgr = urllib2.HTTPPasswordMgrWithDefaultRealm()
# Add the username and password.
# If we knew the realm, we could use it instead of ``None``.
    password_mgr.add_password(None, url, uid, pcode)
    handler = urllib2.HTTPBasicAuthHandler(password_mgr)
    class Mopener(URLopener): version = "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U;
Windows NT 5.1; it; rv:1.8.1.11) Gecko/20071127 Firefox/2.0.0.11"

    opener = Mopener()

# create "opener" (OpenerDirector instance)

    opener = urllib2.build_opener(handler)
    opener.addheaders = [('User-agent', 'Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U;
Windows NT 5.1; it; rv:1.8.1.11) Gecko/20071127 Firefox/2.0.0.11')]

    opener.version = "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; it; rv:
1.8.1.11) Gecko/20071127 Firefox/2.0.0.11"

    print opener.version
# timeout in seconds
    timeout = 10
    socket.setdefaulttimeout(timeout)

# Install the opener all calls to urllib2.urlopen use our opener.
    urllib2.install_opener(opener)

    try:
        response = opener.open(url)
        # "http://www.useragent.org/" tested okay!!!
        print"ok = 1"
    except:
        print "error 1"
#####################################################################################

output from the above:

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; it; rv:1.8.1.11) Gecko/
20071127 Firefox/2.0.0.11
error 1
Error code:  503
('Service Unavailable', 'The server cannot process the request due to
a high load')
From michael at stroeder.com Wed Aug 5 10:43:09 2009 From: michael at stroeder.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?=) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 16:43:09 +0200 Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode() Message-ID: HI! These both expressions are equivalent but which is faster or should be used for any reason? u = unicode(s,'utf-8') u = s.decode('utf-8') # looks nicer Ciao, Michael. From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org Wed Aug 5 10:46:13 2009 From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 15:46:13 +0100 Subject: Parsing Binary Structures; Is there a better way / What is your way? Message-ID: Hi List, On several occasions I have needed (and build) a parser that reads a binary piece of data with custom structure. For example (bogus one): BE +---------+---------+-------------+-------------+------+--------+ | Version | Command | Instruction | Data Length | Data | Filler | +---------+---------+-------------+-------------+------+--------+ Version: 6 bits Command: 4 bits Instruction: 5 bits Data Length: 5 bits Data: 0-31 bits Filler: filling 0 bits to make the packet dividable by 8 what I usually do is read the packet in binary mode, convert the output to a concatenated 'binary string'(i.e. '0101011000110') and then use slice indeces to get the right data portions. Depending on what I need to do with these portions I convert them to whatever is handy (usually an integer). This works out fine for me. Most of the time I also put the ASCII art diagram of this 'protocol' as a comment in the code, making it more readable/understandable. Though there are a couple of things that bothers me with my approach: - This seems such a general problem that I think that there must be already a general pythonic solution. - Using a string for binary representation takes at least 8 times more memory for the packet than strictly necessary. - Seems to need a lot of prep work before doing the actual parsing. Any suggestion is greatly appreciated. -- MPH http://blog.dcuktec.com 'If consumed, best digested with added seasoning to own preference.' From dp_pearce at hotmail.com Wed Aug 5 10:51:44 2009 From: dp_pearce at hotmail.com (dp_pearce) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 07:51:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Is it possible to produce spider plots? Message-ID: I want to be able to use Python to produce Spider plots (perhaps you know them as radar plots or star plots). Does anyone know how to achieve this? Are there existing libraries? Direction to any examples, especially those with tutorials, would be greatly appreciated. Cheers, Dan http://www.answers.com/topic/spider-plot From pruebauno at latinmail.com Wed Aug 5 10:56:35 2009 From: pruebauno at latinmail.com (nn) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 07:56:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Overlap in python References: <4A78B19D.4020306@mrabarnett.plus.com> Message-ID: <4c9f81a5-51b9-4487-9df9-d458b327d286@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> On Aug 5, 7:13?am, Marcus Wanner wrote: > On 8/4/2009 6:09 PM, MRAB wrote: > > > ?>>> parts = [(5, 9, "a"), (7, 10, "b"), (3, 6, "c"), (15, 20, "d"), > > (18, 23, "e")] > > ?>>> parts.sort() > > ?>>> parts > > [(3, 6, 'c'), (5, 9, 'a'), (7, 10, 'b'), (15, 20, 'd'), (18, 23, 'e')] > > ?>>> # Merge overlapping intervals. > > ?>>> pos = 1 > > ?>>> while pos < len(parts): > > ? ? ? ? # Merge the pair in parts[pos - 1 : pos + 1] if they overlap. > > ? ? ? ? p, q = parts[pos - 1 : pos + 1] > > ? ? ? ? if p[1] >= q[0]: > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? parts[pos - 1 : pos + 1] = [(p[0], max(p[1], q[1]), p[2] > > + "." + q[2])] > > ? ? ? ? else: > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # They don't overlap, so try the next pair. > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? pos += 1 > > > ?>>> parts > > [(3, 10, 'c.a.b'), (15, 23, 'd.e')] > > That's the best solution I've seen so far. It even has input/output > formatted as close as is reasonably possible to the format specified. > > As we would say in googlecode, +1. > > Marcus How does it compare to this one? http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_frm/thread/1a1d2ed9d05d11d0/56684b795fc527cc#56684b795fc527cc From roger_lynx at yahoo.com Wed Aug 5 11:05:38 2009 From: roger_lynx at yahoo.com (roger_lynx) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 15:05:38 -0000 Subject: web access yields "503" Message-ID: Hi, I am porting a simple code from Perl, the website asks for usr/pwd and the server's side Perl script makes a temp ftp dir for a file upload. The original Perl script connects okay, does its job. The same URL stuffed into FF3 performs the same way. My Python script I am sweating over for past four days (noob!) gets consistently "503", even with user agent set to: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows;U; Windows NT 5.1; it; rv:1.8.1.11)Gecko/20071127 Firefox/2.0.0.11. Snippets of relevant code below, heavily copied from this author: http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/articles/urllib2.shtml Please, help me understand how this same code lets me log in into my router usr/pwd running .asp, but this !@#$% perl script returns to me w/503 c*ap? Thank you. Do I need to set any proxy? The server is on intranet and the FF3 is set to proxy. The original Perl script did not use any proxy setting! LWP:: 

url = http://bad_example.com/ftpsetup.pl?username=boofa&nodeid=42
#########################################################
# create a password manager
    password_mgr = urllib2.HTTPPasswordMgrWithDefaultRealm()
# Add the username and password.
# If we knew the realm, we could use it instead of ``None``.
    password_mgr.add_password(None, url, uid, pcode)
    handler = urllib2.HTTPBasicAuthHandler(password_mgr)
    class Mopener(URLopener): version = "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U;
Windows NT 5.1; it; rv:1.8.1.11) Gecko/20071127 Firefox/2.0.0.11"

    opener = Mopener()

# create "opener" (OpenerDirector instance)

    opener = urllib2.build_opener(handler)
    opener.addheaders = [('User-agent', 'Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U;
Windows NT 5.1; it; rv:1.8.1.11) Gecko/20071127 Firefox/2.0.0.11')]

    opener.version = "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; 
Windows NT 5.1; it; rv:
1.8.1.11) Gecko/20071127 Firefox/2.0.0.11"

    print opener.version
# timeout in seconds
    timeout = 10
    socket.setdefaulttimeout(timeout)

# Install the opener all calls to urllib2.urlopen use our opener.
    urllib2.install_opener(opener)

    try:
        response = opener.open(url)
        # "http://www.useragent.org/" tested okay!!!
        print"ok = 1"
    except:
        print "error 1"
#####################################################################################

output from the above:

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; it; rv:1.8.1.11) Gecko/
20071127 Firefox/2.0.0.11
error 1
Error code: 503
('Service Unavailable', 'The server cannot process the request due to
a high load')
From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org Wed Aug 5 11:12:48 2009 From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 08:12:48 -0700 Subject: Overlap in python In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jay Bird wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I've been trying to figure out a simple algorithm on how to combine a > list of parts that have 1D locations that overlap into a non- > overlapping list. For example, here would be my input: > > part name location > a 5-9 > b 7-10 > c 3-6 > d 15-20 > e 18-23 > > And here is what I need for an output: > part name location > c.a.b 3-10 > d.e 15-23 > > I've tried various methods, which all fail. Does anyone have an idea > how to do this? > > Thank you very much! > Jay I once had to do this for finding nested block structure. The key for me was a sort order: start, -final. Having not seen it here (though I looked a bit), here's one: class Entry(object): '''An entry is a name and range''' def __init__(self, line): self.name, startstop = line.split() start, stop = startstop.split('-') self.start, self.stop = int(start), int(stop) def combined_ranges(lines): '''Create Entries in "magic order", and produce ranges. The "magic order" makes least element with longest range first, so overlaps show up in head order, with final tail first among equals. ''' # Fill in our table (ignoring blank lines), then sort by magic order elements = [Entry(line) for line in lines if line.strip()] elements.sort(key=lambda e: (e.start, -e.stop)) # Now produce resolved ranges. Grab the start gen = iter(elements) first = gen.next() # For the remainder, combine or produce for v in gen: if v.start <= first.stop: # on overlap, merge in new element (may update stop) first.name += '.' + v.name if first.stop < v.stop: first.stop = v.stop else: yield first first = v # And now produce the last element we covered yield first # Demo: sample = '''part name location a 5-9 b 7-10 c 3-6 d 15-20 e 18-23 ''' source = iter(sample.split('\n')) # source of lines, opened file? ignored = source.next() # discard heading for interval in combined_range(source): print '%s %s-%s' % (interval.name, interval.start, interval.stop) Prints: c.a.b 3-10 d.e 15-23 --Scott David Daniels Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org From wuwei23 at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 11:17:34 2009 From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 08:17:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: trouble with complex numbers References: <24821423.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: <37b97967-ec2e-4c37-a4b9-46e56a6de7bd@p36g2000prn.googlegroups.com> On Aug 6, 1:18?am, Scott David Daniels wrote: > I think it explained in the complex math area, but basically EE types > use j, math types use i for exactly the same thing. ?Since i is so > frequently and index in CS, and there is another strong convention, > why not let the EE types win? That 'i' tends to be used as index did occur to me, I just wasn't aware of what conventions were used in other contexts. Thanks, Scott, much appreciated. From rustompmody at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 11:18:05 2009 From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 20:48:05 +0530 Subject: error return from urlopen Message-ID: When I direct urlopen to a non-existent server process I get IOError: [Errno socket error] (10061, 'Connection refused') The connection refused is as expected but whats the 10061? strerror(10061) says 'unknown error' So its like an errno but not quite an errno? Can I find out more about this number like I can about errno? From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org Wed Aug 5 11:18:55 2009 From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 08:18:55 -0700 Subject: trouble with complex numbers In-Reply-To: References: <24821423.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: alex23 wrote: > Piet van Oostrum wrote: >> That should be z += 0j > > Pardon my ignorance, but could anyone explain the rationale behind > using 'j' to indicate the imaginary number (as opposed to the more > intuitive 'i')? > > (Not that I've had much call to use complex numbers but I'm > curious....) I think it explained in the complex math area, but basically EE types use j, math types use i for exactly the same thing. Since i is so frequently and index in CS, and there is another strong convention, why not let the EE types win? --Scott David Daniels Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org From robin at reportlab.com Wed Aug 5 11:18:55 2009 From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 16:18:55 +0100 Subject: Is it possible to produce spider plots? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A79A2DF.5010908@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk> dp_pearce wrote: > I want to be able to use Python to produce Spider plots (perhaps you > know them as radar plots or star plots). Does anyone know how to > achieve this? Are there existing libraries? > > Direction to any examples, especially those with tutorials, would be > greatly appreciated. > > Cheers, ...... reportlab has a spider chart in reportlab/graphics/charts/spider.py -- Robin Becker From marduk at letterboxes.org Wed Aug 5 11:28:22 2009 From: marduk at letterboxes.org (Albert Hopkins) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 11:28:22 -0400 Subject: error return from urlopen In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1249486102.23428.3.camel@brotherus.corp.redhat.com> On Wed, 2009-08-05 at 20:48 +0530, Rustom Mody wrote: > When I direct urlopen to a non-existent server process I get > > IOError: [Errno socket error] (10061, 'Connection refused') > The connection refused is as expected but whats the 10061? > strerror(10061) says 'unknown error' > > So its like an errno but not quite an errno? > Can I find out more about this number like I can about errno? http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms740668(VS.85).aspx From tim.arnold at sas.com Wed Aug 5 11:30:07 2009 From: tim.arnold at sas.com (Tim Arnold) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 11:30:07 -0400 Subject: oNVDL validation docbook 5 Message-ID: Hi, I'm using the oNVDL java validator for my DocBook 5.0 documents. Otherwise, my doc system is python. I wonder if there is any work going on (or perhaps something I'm missing) to use python to validate DocBook 5 (using the rng files bundled with the DocBook5 distribution) I think the catch with DocBook 5 rng is that it has embedded Schematron rules, which makes lxml not able to validate. I'm out of my depth here, but that's what I've heard. Anyway, I'd sure like to streamline this using python rather than a subprocess call out to that java validator. Any suggestions or pointers welcome. thanks, --Tim Arnold From jkn_gg at nicorp.f9.co.uk Wed Aug 5 11:33:48 2009 From: jkn_gg at nicorp.f9.co.uk (jkn) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 08:33:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Is it possible to produce spider plots? References: Message-ID: On Aug 5, 3:51?pm, dp_pearce wrote: > I want to be able to use Python to produce Spider plots (perhaps you > know them as radar plots or star plots). Does anyone know how to > achieve this? Are there existing libraries? > The 'wxPython in Action' book has some simple example code which produces this sort of graphic. If you are after a GUI application rather than creating a paper copy it might be worth checking this out. HTH J^n From tack at urandom.ca Wed Aug 5 11:38:13 2009 From: tack at urandom.ca (Jason Tackaberry) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 11:38:13 -0400 Subject: intricated functions: how to share a variable In-Reply-To: <7dt5rqF2crv46U1@mid.uni-berlin.de> References: <7dt5rqF2crv46U1@mid.uni-berlin.de> Message-ID: <1249486693.7120.789.camel@arrakis> On Wed, 2009-08-05 at 12:39 +0200, Diez B. Roggisch wrote: > Another often used trick is to have a mutable container-object, like this: > > def tutu(): > a = [2] > > def toto(): > a[0] = 4 > > toto() When you need a writable bound variable inside a closure, I prefer this idiom: def foo(): def bar(): print bar.a bar.a = 4 print bar.a bar.a = 2 bar() Python 3's nonlocal is obviously much more elegant. Cheers, Jason. From joncle at googlemail.com Wed Aug 5 11:39:07 2009 From: joncle at googlemail.com (Jon Clements) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 08:39:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Parsing Binary Structures; Is there a better way / What is your way? References: Message-ID: <9bca27b8-e71d-4b71-a792-d9ca7be18ab3@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> On 5 Aug, 15:46, "Martin P. Hellwig" wrote: > Hi List, > > On several occasions I have needed (and build) a parser that reads a > binary piece of data with custom structure. For example (bogus one): > > BE > +---------+---------+-------------+-------------+------+--------+ > | Version | Command | Instruction | Data Length | Data | Filler | > +---------+---------+-------------+-------------+------+--------+ > Version: 6 bits > Command: 4 bits > Instruction: 5 bits > Data Length: 5 bits > Data: 0-31 bits > Filler: filling 0 bits to make the packet dividable by 8 > > what I usually do is read the packet in binary mode, convert the output > to a concatenated 'binary string'(i.e. '0101011000110') and then use > slice indeces to get the right data portions. > Depending on what I need to do with these portions I convert them to > whatever is handy (usually an integer). > > This works out fine for me. Most of the time I also put the ASCII art > diagram of this 'protocol' as a comment in the code, making it more > readable/understandable. > > Though there are a couple of things that bothers me with my approach: > - This seems such a general problem that I think that there must be > already a general pythonic solution. > - Using a string for binary representation takes at least 8 times more > memory for the packet than strictly necessary. > - Seems to need a lot of prep work before doing the actual parsing. > > Any suggestion is greatly appreciated. > > -- > MPHhttp://blog.dcuktec.com > 'If consumed, best digested with added seasoning to own preference.' IIRC (and I have my doubts) the BitVector module may be of use, but it's been about 3 years since I had to look at it. I think it used the C equiv. of short ints to do its work. Otherwise, maybe the array module, the struct module or even possibly ctypes. Not much use, but might give a few pointers. Jon. From kosta.koeman at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 11:39:15 2009 From: kosta.koeman at gmail.com (Kosta) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 08:39:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Using Python to automate builds References: <84d9ae10-3aee-40a8-97ac-05799da0de64@f18g2000prf.googlegroups.com> <200908050956.33995.hendrik@microcorp.co.za> <5b8d13220908050508n32f05bep4c275cec14914588@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Aug 5, 7:29?am, Hendrik van Rooyen wrote: > On Wednesday 05 August 2009 14:08:18 David Cournapeau wrote: > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 4:56 PM, Hendrik van > > > Rooyen wrote: > > > On Tuesday 04 August 2009 21:13:10 Kosta wrote: > > >> I am a Python newbie, tasked with automating (researching) building > > >> Windows drivers using the WDK build environment. ?I've been looking > > >> into Python for this (instead of writing a bunch of batch files). > > > > Why do you not use make and a makefile - it was designed to > > > do exactly this. > > > Because make is a pain on windows (lack of a proper shell) ? > > Well, you could always use Dosbox - I am doing exactly that > on Linux to be able to run some old DOS based assembler > tools. ?It will run on windows too, they claim. > > And it is very simple to use too - no fancy fidgeting, all you have > to do is to point it at a directory that becomes your "C" drive. > > Bit slow - but hey, nobody's perfect. > > - Hendrik Sorry for not being more clear. The WDK provides build.exe, a utility that calls the compiler & linker with the approprite switches. In essence, it manages all the nmake details away from the developer. For some, this is a bad thing in terms of loss of control. But in reality, this is a great thing, as this is the way Microsoft builds Windows. As far as I can tell, the WDK build environment is dervied from the Microsoft Windows build environment, which is great for developing kernel components in the similar enviornment in which Microsoft builds its OS. It is a requirement to use the WDK. Setenv.bat sets up the path and other environment variables build.exe needs to compile and link (and even binplace) its utilities. So building itself is not the issue. The problem is that if I call setenv.bat from Python and then build.exe, but the modifications to the path (and other environment settings) are not seen by Python, so the attempt to build without a specified path fails. Now I can open up a build window that targets a build type (check or release), an architecture target (x86 or x64) and an OS target (which will be Windows Xp except if in the future, the driver(s) uses some infrastructure introduced in later versions of WDM. However, what I was hoping to do was to have a python script that would allow me to build 4 versions of the driver: x86 check, x86 release, x64 check, and x64 release. I may have to resort to using batch files, but I was hoping as much as possible to use Python. Thanks, Kosta From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk Wed Aug 5 11:52:08 2009 From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 16:52:08 +0100 Subject: Overlap in python In-Reply-To: References: <4a7892c2$0$2297$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> Message-ID: Jay Bird wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I wanted to thank you all for your help and *excellent* discussion. I > was able to utilize and embed the script by Grigor Lingl in the 6th > post of this discussion to get my program to work very quickly (I had > to do about 20 comparisons per data bin, with over 40K bins in > total). I am involved in genomic analysis research and this problem > comes up a lot and I was surprised to not have been able to find a > clear way to solve it. I will also look through all the tips in this > thread, I have a feeling they may come in handy for future use! > > Thank you again, > Jay I don't know if this is relevant, but http://planet.python.org/ has an entry dated this morning which points here http://www.logarithmic.net/pfh/blog/01249470842. HTH. -- Kindest regards. Mark Lawrence. From tack at urandom.ca Wed Aug 5 11:53:56 2009 From: tack at urandom.ca (Jason Tackaberry) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 11:53:56 -0400 Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode() In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1249487636.7120.798.camel@arrakis> On Wed, 2009-08-05 at 16:43 +0200, Michael Str?der wrote: > These both expressions are equivalent but which is faster or should be used > for any reason? > > u = unicode(s,'utf-8') > > u = s.decode('utf-8') # looks nicer It is sometimes non-obvious which constructs are faster than others in Python. I also regularly have these questions, but it's pretty easy to run quick (albeit naive) benchmarks to see. The first thing to try is to have a look at the bytecode for each: >>> import dis >>> dis.dis(lambda s: s.decode('utf-8')) 1 0 LOAD_FAST 0 (s) 3 LOAD_ATTR 0 (decode) 6 LOAD_CONST 0 ('utf-8') 9 CALL_FUNCTION 1 12 RETURN_VALUE >>> dis.dis(lambda s: unicode(s, 'utf-8')) 1 0 LOAD_GLOBAL 0 (unicode) 3 LOAD_FAST 0 (s) 6 LOAD_CONST 0 ('utf-8') 9 CALL_FUNCTION 2 12 RETURN_VALUE The presence of LOAD_ATTR in the first form hints that this is probably going to be slower. Next, actually try it: >>> import timeit >>> timeit.timeit('"foobarbaz".decode("utf-8")') 1.698289155960083 >>> timeit.timeit('unicode("foobarbaz", "utf-8")') 0.53305888175964355 So indeed, uncode(s, 'utf-8') is faster by a fair margin. On the other hand, unless you need to do this in a tight loop several tens of thousands of times, I'd prefer the slower form s.decode('utf-8') because it's, as you pointed out, cleaner and more readable code. Cheers, Jason. From J.Fine at open.ac.uk Wed Aug 5 12:03:13 2009 From: J.Fine at open.ac.uk (Jonathan Fine) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 17:03:13 +0100 Subject: Do anyone here use Python *embedded* in a database? In-Reply-To: <767b6862-065f-480a-82f5-ed3aa35bf84d@n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> References: <767b6862-065f-480a-82f5-ed3aa35bf84d@n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Jon Clements wrote: > On 5 Aug, 13:17, Jonathan Fine wrote: >> Hi >> >> I'm writing a talk that compares embed and extend, and wondered if >> anyone here ever used the Python *embedded* in a database server. >> http://twistedmatrix.com/users/glyph/rant/extendit.html >> >> Web frameworks (such as Django) use extend, to import an extension >> module that makes a connection to a database. >> >> If you have used embed, you might have consulted a page such as: >> http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.3/interactive/plpython-funcs.html >> >> -- >> Jonathan > > Yup, have used plpythonu within postgres without too many problems. > Although I do recall once that using the CSV module to load and filter > external data, did consume a massive amount of memory. Even though the > entire procedure was iterator based -- never did work out if it was > postgres caching, or some other weird stuff. [That was about 2 years > ago though] Thanks, Jon, for that. -- Jonathan From lawrencew00 at hotmail.com Wed Aug 5 12:07:39 2009 From: lawrencew00 at hotmail.com (Lawrence Wong) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 16:07:39 +0000 Subject: os.system in a service Message-ID: Hi, I wrote a program which runs a .bat file using os.system like: 'os.system(pathToBatFile)' and everything was good. Then I decided to turn my program into a service as opposed to being run with the command prompt showing. When my program became a service, I noticed that the os.system command to run my .bat file was no longer working. By 'not working' I mean no exception is thrown, but it was as if the line with os.system(pathToBatFile) did not exist. I was wondering why this is and if there is a way to fix this or what an alternative to using os.system to run my .bat file was? LW . . . Lawrence _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive email from all of your webmail accounts. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9671356 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rays at blue-cove.com Wed Aug 5 12:21:35 2009 From: rays at blue-cove.com (RayS) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 09:21:35 -0700 Subject: Cypress FX2 - py libusb code? In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20090804224315.01c22b60@pop-server.san.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20090805091843.01c76cc8@blue-cove.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- """ To run the single C file USB bulk read program properly, you must provide a source of data to the CY7C68013 FIFO bus, like the Simple dual channel A/D system, otherwise the reading call will time out in one second, you will get a bunch of zeros, and the ninth status number will be something negative instead of 512. """ import sys import os import time import usb def PrintDevInfo(dev): """Print device information.""" print "Device:", dev.filename print " Device class:",dev.deviceClass print " Device sub class:",dev.deviceSubClass print " Device protocol:",dev.deviceProtocol print " Max packet size:",dev.maxPacketSize print " idVendor:",dev.idVendor print " idProduct:",dev.idProduct print " Device Version:",dev.deviceVersion print " Device SerialNumber:",dev.iSerialNumber for config in dev.configurations: print " Configuration:", config.value print " Total length:", config.totalLength print " selfPowered:", config.selfPowered print " remoteWakeup:", config.remoteWakeup print " maxPower:", config.maxPower for intf in config.interfaces: print " Interface:",intf[0].interfaceNumber for alt in intf: print " Alternate Setting:",alt.alternateSetting print " Interface class:",alt.interfaceClass print " Interface sub class:",alt.interfaceSubClass print " Interface protocol:",alt.interfaceProtocol for ep in alt.endpoints: print " Endpoint:",hex(ep.address) print " Type:",ep.type print " Max packet size:",ep.maxPacketSize print " Interval:",ep.interval firmware = [0x90, 0xE6, 0x0B, 0x74, 0x03, 0xF0, ##REVCTL = 0x03 0x90, 0xE6, 0x04, 0x74, 0x80, 0xF0, ##FIFORESET = 0x80 0x74, 0x08, 0xF0, ##FIFORESET = 0x08 0xE4, 0xF0, ##FIFORESET = 0x00 0x90, 0xE6, 0x01, 0x74, 0xCB, 0xF0, ##IFCONFIG = 0xCB 0x90, 0xE6, 0x1B, 0x74, 0x0D, 0xF0, ##EP8FIFOCFG = 0x0D #0x90, 0xE6, 0x09, 0x74, 0x10, 0xF0, ##FIFOPINPOLAR = 0x10 TRUST!!! 0x80, 0xFE] ##while (1) {} reset = 0x01 er = [] endpoint = 8 # find all of the USB busses busses = usb.busses() #print busses # Find one device rdev = None for bus in busses: for dev in bus.devices: if dev.idVendor == 0x04B4 and dev.idProduct == 0x8613: rdev = dev if rdev==None: print "Could not find a CY7C68013\ndev.idVendor == 0x04B4 and dev.idProduct == 0x8613" sys.exit() else: dev = rdev #PrintDevInfo(dev) endpoint=8 current_handle = dev.open() requestType = 0x40 request = 0xa0 #buffer = ''.zfill(4096) value=0 index=0 timeout=1000 er.append(('RESET', current_handle.controlMsg(requestType, request, reset, value, index, timeout) ))##RESET time.sleep(0.1) for i in range(len(firmware)): #er.append(('ctrlMsg', i, current_handle.controlMsg(0x40, 0xa0, firmware[i], value=i, index=0))) er.append(('ctrlMsg', i, len(current_handle.controlMsg(0x40, 0xa0, firmware[i], value=i, index=0)))) er.append(('UNRESET', current_handle.controlMsg(requestType, request, reset+1, value, index, timeout))) ##UNRESET time.sleep(0.1) # we know that there's one config, one interface, and one endpoint conf = dev.configurations[0] er.append(( "confs", len(dev.configurations))) er.append(conf.interfaces.count(0))#, conf.interfaces.index(1) iface = conf.interfaces[0][1] er.append( ("ifaces[0]", len(conf.interfaces[0]))) endpoint = iface.endpoints[1] er.append(( "endpoints", len(iface.endpoints))) er.append(( "iin", iface.interfaceNumber)) er.append( current_handle.setConfiguration(conf)) er.append( current_handle.claimInterface(iface)) er.append( current_handle.setAltInterface(iface)) try: er.append( current_handle.bulkRead(endpoint.address, 512, 1000)) except usb.USBError, e: print ' bulkRead error: ', e.args print ' return data:' for e in er: print ' ', e PrintDevInfo(dev) sys.exit() for i in range(512): print " %02x " % buffer[i], current_handle.releaseInterface(0) dev.close() print "\n status: ", er[-1] From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk Wed Aug 5 12:30:24 2009 From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 17:30:24 +0100 Subject: Is it possible to produce spider plots? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: dp_pearce wrote: > I want to be able to use Python to produce Spider plots (perhaps you > know them as radar plots or star plots). Does anyone know how to > achieve this? Are there existing libraries? > > Direction to any examples, especially those with tutorials, would be > greatly appreciated. > > Cheers, > Dan > > http://www.answers.com/topic/spider-plot How about http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/examples/api/radar_chart.html?highlight=spider -- Kindest regards. Mark Lawrence. From tim.arnold at sas.com Wed Aug 5 12:34:18 2009 From: tim.arnold at sas.com (Tim Arnold) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 12:34:18 -0400 Subject: Using Python to automate builds References: <84d9ae10-3aee-40a8-97ac-05799da0de64@f18g2000prf.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: "Kosta" wrote in message news:84d9ae10-3aee-40a8-97ac-05799da0de64 at f18g2000prf.googlegroups.com... >I am a Python newbie, tasked with automating (researching) building > Windows drivers using the WDK build environment. I've been looking > into Python for this (instead of writing a bunch of batch files). > > What I would like to do, is to open a cmd window, and start a Python > script. This script would then (based upon input arguments), build > different flavors of the driver (fre, chk, x86, x64) and do some post > processing (create cat files, sign, etc.). > > I was hoping to take advantage as much as possible of exisiting > infrastructure from the WDK. I am able to call setenv.bat and provide > all the input parameters. One of the things setenv.bat does is change > the path environment variable. However, this is not captured by > Python. I could duplicate the functionality, but I'd rather not. Is > there a way to capture all enviroment variable changes being made by a > batch file from Python? > > Thanks! It sounds like you know what you're doing. I just wanted to point out that you can specify environment dictionaries in the subprocess.Popen module. You can set a different dictionary for each call you make to the system. Not sure if that helps, --Tim From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org Wed Aug 5 13:05:08 2009 From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 18:05:08 +0100 Subject: Parsing Binary Structures; Is there a better way / What is your way? In-Reply-To: <9bca27b8-e71d-4b71-a792-d9ca7be18ab3@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> References: <9bca27b8-e71d-4b71-a792-d9ca7be18ab3@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Jon Clements wrote: > IIRC (and I have my doubts) the BitVector module may be of use, but > it's been about 3 years since I had to look at it. I think it used the > C equiv. of short ints to do its work. Otherwise, maybe the array > module, the struct module or even possibly ctypes. > > Not much use, but might give a few pointers. > > Jon. I tried struct before (it seemed logical) but it didn't really do what I expected: >>> import struct >>> struct.unpack('?','x') (True,) I expected a list like (False, True, True, True, True, False, False, False). But it is (actually I hope) just an error of my side, so if somebody knows how to achieve what I want, with this module, please enlighten me :-) The array module doesn't seem to have an option for boolean values. BitVector does look very promising, but after peeking in the source it does more or less the same as what I do with converting back and forth of 'bitstrings'. I haven't thought about using ctypes for this, excellent suggestion! Thank you for your feedback. -- MPH http://blog.dcuktec.com 'If consumed, best digested with added seasoning to own preference.' From deets at nospam.web.de Wed Aug 5 13:16:54 2009 From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 19:16:54 +0200 Subject: access string data from within cython Message-ID: <7dtt46F2e5osvU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> Hi, I'm trying to wrap a C-API which has a call that takes a void* and a size_t as arguments. void foo(void *data, size_t length) The wrapper is supposed to be called with a python (byte)string instance, which might contain more than one '\0'-character. So how do I access the raw data of a string? I tried looking into the buffer-protocol, but to be honest - that's beyond me, I don't see where that is actually giving me access to the real data. Diez From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com Wed Aug 5 13:17:29 2009 From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (Bearophile) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 10:17:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Parsing Binary Structures; Is there a better way / What is your way? References: Message-ID: <50e27473-926b-458a-84f2-927ad02a0ed8@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> Martin P. Hellwig: > On several occasions I have needed (and build) a parser that reads a > binary piece of data with custom structure. For example (bogus one): > > BE > +---------+---------+-------------+-------------+------+--------+ > | Version | Command | Instruction | Data Length | Data | Filler | > +---------+---------+-------------+-------------+------+--------+ > Version: 6 bits > Command: 4 bits > Instruction: 5 bits > Data Length: 5 bits > Data: 0-31 bits > Filler: filling 0 bits to make the packet dividable by 8 Have you tried Hachoir? (I think its name may be changed to Fusil, I don't know). Bye, bearophile From masklinn at masklinn.net Wed Aug 5 13:22:42 2009 From: masklinn at masklinn.net (Masklinn) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 19:22:42 +0200 Subject: Parsing Binary Structures; Is there a better way / What is your way? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <934952CA-AC59-415C-A5D8-AEF74A0033FD@masklinn.net> On 5 Aug 2009, at 16:46 , Martin P. Hellwig wrote: > Hi List, > > On several occasions I have needed (and build) a parser that reads a > binary piece of data with custom structure. For example (bogus one): > > BE > +---------+---------+-------------+-------------+------+--------+ > | Version | Command | Instruction | Data Length | Data | Filler | > +---------+---------+-------------+-------------+------+--------+ > Version: 6 bits > Command: 4 bits > Instruction: 5 bits > Data Length: 5 bits > Data: 0-31 bits > Filler: filling 0 bits to make the packet dividable by 8 > > what I usually do is read the packet in binary mode, convert the > output to a concatenated 'binary string'(i.e. '0101011000110') and > then use slice indeces to get the right data portions. > Depending on what I need to do with these portions I convert them to > whatever is handy (usually an integer). > > This works out fine for me. Most of the time I also put the ASCII > art diagram of this 'protocol' as a comment in the code, making it > more readable/understandable. > > Though there are a couple of things that bothers me with my approach: > - This seems such a general problem that I think that there must be > already a general pythonic solution. > - Using a string for binary representation takes at least 8 times > more memory for the packet than strictly necessary. > - Seems to need a lot of prep work before doing the actual parsing. > > Any suggestion is greatly appreciated. The gold standard for binary parsing (and serialization) is probably Erlang's bit syntax, but as far as Python goes you might be interested by Hachoir (http://hachoir.org/ but it seems down right now). It's not going to match your second point, but it can probably help with the rest (caveat: I haven't used hachoir personally). From masklinn at masklinn.net Wed Aug 5 13:26:53 2009 From: masklinn at masklinn.net (Masklinn) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 19:26:53 +0200 Subject: Parsing Binary Structures; Is there a better way / What is your way? In-Reply-To: <50e27473-926b-458a-84f2-927ad02a0ed8@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> References: <50e27473-926b-458a-84f2-927ad02a0ed8@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <7120B941-0C12-47ED-9505-08914EBD9CFB@masklinn.net> On 5 Aug 2009, at 19:17 , Bearophile wrote: > Have you tried Hachoir? (I think its name may be changed to Fusil, I > don't know). Name hasn't been changed (I think fusil is a subproject, something like that) on the other hand the hachoir.org site is dead. But apparently Hachoir was moved to bitbucket (http://bitbucket.org/haypo/hachoir/wiki/Home ) just in time so? From mensanator at aol.com Wed Aug 5 13:33:07 2009 From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 10:33:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Turtle Graphics are incompatible with gmpy References: <0002b5d3$0$2970$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> <4a7936a4$0$1552$91cee783@newsreader03.highway.telekom.at> Message-ID: > It didn't form 2.5 to 2.6 (at least not intentionally). But with the > indroduction of the TurtleScreen class and the Screen class/object > (singleton) a few of the turtle methods were also implemented as screen > methods and as turtle methods declared deprecated (see docs of Python > 2.6). These deprecated turtle methods do not occur as turtle methods any > more in Python 3.x. More info. Yes, there is no tracer attribute...when the object is created. But watch this (Python 3.1): >>> import turtle >>> tooter = turtle.Turtle() >>> tooter.tracer Traceback (most recent call last): File "", line 1, in tooter.tracer AttributeError: 'Turtle' object has no attribute 'tracer' >>> tooter.hideturtle() >>> tooter.speed('fast') >>> turtle.update() >>> turtle.tracer Now, after setting hide, speed, update, a tracer exists. Is that supposed to happen? That explains why there was no error when I set the turtle attribute instead of the screen attribute. And, of course, setting the turtle attribute accomplishes nothing, as actual tracing is controlled by the screen attribute as you say. > > Among them is the tracer method, which in fact does not control single > turtle objects but all the turtles on a given screen. > > So there is an icompatibility beween 2.6 and 3.x > > But as far as I have understood, this doesn't concern the problem > reported by mensator. Only that the problem is hidden when tracing is off, as the nhops variable is never evaluated when trace is off. > > Regards, > Gregor From gregor.lingl at aon.at Wed Aug 5 13:56:50 2009 From: gregor.lingl at aon.at (Gregor Lingl) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 19:56:50 +0200 Subject: Turtle Graphics are incompatible with gmpy In-Reply-To: References: <0002b5d3$0$2970$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> <4a7936a4$0$1552$91cee783@newsreader03.highway.telekom.at> Message-ID: <4A79C7E2.3000406@aon.at> Mensanator schrieb: >> It didn't form 2.5 to 2.6 (at least not intentionally). But with the >> indroduction of the TurtleScreen class and the Screen class/object >> (singleton) a few of the turtle methods were also implemented as screen >> methods and as turtle methods declared deprecated (see docs of Python >> 2.6). These deprecated turtle methods do not occur as turtle methods any >> more in Python 3.x. > > More info. > > Yes, there is no tracer attribute...when the object is created. > > But watch this (Python 3.1): > >>>> import turtle >>>> tooter = turtle.Turtle() >>>> tooter.tracer > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "", line 1, in > tooter.tracer > AttributeError: 'Turtle' object has no attribute 'tracer' >>>> tooter.hideturtle() >>>> tooter.speed('fast') >>>> turtle.update() >>>> turtle.tracer > > > Now, after setting hide, speed, update, a tracer exists. No, >>> import turtle >>> turtle.tracer >>> help(turtle.tracer) Help on function tracer in module turtle: tracer(n=None, delay=None) Turns turtle animation on/off and set delay for update drawings. Optional arguments: n -- nonnegative integer delay -- nonnegative integer If n is given, only each n-th regular screen update is really performed. (Can be used to accelerate the drawing of complex graphics.) Second arguments sets delay value.) Example: >>> tracer(8, 25) >>> dist = 2 >>> for i in range(200): fd(dist) rt(90) dist += 2 >>> The reason for this is, that the turtle module (the new one as well as the old one) has a vers special design: The methods of class Turtle are also available as functions (which are in fact methods calls of an anonymous turtle). The same holds for the methods of TurtleScreen. The intention behind this design is that you can use the module in an OOP way as well as with procedural programming (especially for beginners). When using objects I normally use from turtle import Turtle, Screen screen = Screen() # that creates singleton object, the screen the turtle acts on and I create as many turtles as I need from the Turtle class So turtle.tracer() doesn't make sense anymore > Is that supposed to happen? That explains why there was no error > when I set the turtle attribute instead of the screen attribute. You do not 'set the turtle attribute', you call the tracer function of the turtle module > And, of course, setting the turtle attribute accomplishes nothing, > as actual tracing is controlled by the screen attribute as you say. > >> Among them is the tracer method, which in fact does not control single >> turtle objects but all the turtles on a given screen. >> >> So there is an icompatibility beween 2.6 and 3.x >> >> But as far as I have understood, this doesn't concern the problem >> reported by mensator. > > Only that the problem is hidden when tracing is off, as the nhops > variable is never evaluated when trace is off. Nevertheless I'd like to see a working Python 2.5 version of your script. Regards, Gregor From http Wed Aug 5 14:12:05 2009 From: http (Paul Rubin) Date: 05 Aug 2009 11:12:05 -0700 Subject: Parsing Binary Structures; Is there a better way / What is your way? References: Message-ID: <7x3a86gmfe.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> "Martin P. Hellwig" writes: > what I usually do is read the packet in binary mode, convert the > output to a concatenated 'binary string'(i.e. '0101011000110') and Something wrong with reading the data words as an integer and using old fashioned shifts and masks to get at the bit fields? From 1x7y2z9 at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 14:12:45 2009 From: 1x7y2z9 at gmail.com (1x7y2z9) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 11:12:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode() References: Message-ID: unicode() has LOAD_GLOBAL which s.decode() does not. Is it generally the case that LOAD_ATTR is slower than LOAD_GLOBAL that lead to your intuition that the former would probably be slower? Or some other intuition? Of course, the results from timeit are a different thing - I ask about the intuition in the disassembler output. Thanks. > > The presence of LOAD_ATTR in the first form hints that this is probably > going to be slower. ? Next, actually try it: > From piet at cs.uu.nl Wed Aug 5 14:20:47 2009 From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 20:20:47 +0200 Subject: Special chars with HTMLParser References: <5c6941f8-c53e-4518-8ce5-83be64689307@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> <69835fa3-c6a0-44d3-bba2-5e3117102590@k30g2000yqf.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: >>>>> Fafounet (F) wrote: >F> Thank you, now I can get the correct character. >F> Now when I have the string abécd I can get ab then ? thanks to >F> your function and then cd. But how is it possible to know that cd is >F> still the same word ? That depends on your definition of `word'. And that is language-dependent. What you normally do is collect the text in a (unicode) string variable. This happens in handle_data, handle_charref and handle_entityref. Then you check that the previously collected stuff was a word (e.g. consisting of Unicode letters), and that the new stuff also consists of letters. If your language has additional word constituents like - or ' you have to add this. You can do this with unicodedata.category or with a regular expression. If your locale is correct \w in a regular expression may be helpful. -- Piet van Oostrum URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4] Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org From dp_pearce at hotmail.com Wed Aug 5 14:21:50 2009 From: dp_pearce at hotmail.com (Devon_Dan) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 11:21:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Is it possible to produce spider plots? References: Message-ID: <2481d12e-6af9-4dbb-991d-fb636c3b6831@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> > reportlab has a spider chart in reportlab/graphics/charts/spider.py > How about > http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/examples/api/radar_chart.html?highl... Both exactly what I was after. Thanks very much. > The 'wxPython in Action' book has some simple example code which > produces this sort of graphic. If you are after a GUI application > rather than creating a paper copy it might be worth checking this out. Thanks for this one jkn. I actually have this book and went through it looking to see if it had an answer before posting. Completely missed it! Clearly I need to RTFM more closely next time. From philip at semanchuk.com Wed Aug 5 14:25:27 2009 From: philip at semanchuk.com (Philip Semanchuk) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 14:25:27 -0400 Subject: access string data from within cython In-Reply-To: <7dtt46F2e5osvU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> References: <7dtt46F2e5osvU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> Message-ID: On Aug 5, 2009, at 1:16 PM, Diez B. Roggisch wrote: > Hi, > > I'm trying to wrap a C-API which has a call that takes a void* and a > size_t > as arguments. > > void foo(void *data, size_t length) > > > The wrapper is supposed to be called with a python (byte)string > instance, > which might contain more than one '\0'-character. > > So how do I access the raw data of a string? I tried looking into the > buffer-protocol, but to be honest - that's beyond me, I don't see > where > that is actually giving me access to the real data. Hi Diez, Would ctypes.create_string_buffer() work for you? bye P From jeremy.cowles at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 14:31:38 2009 From: jeremy.cowles at gmail.com (Jeremy Cowles) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 11:31:38 -0700 Subject: Install setup tools for 2.6 Message-ID: <373cf0740908051131gacaf77apba48fa40e929f491@mail.gmail.com> Ok, I feel like this is a really stupid question, but how do you install setup tools for Python 2.6 under windows? The only format is .egg which requires setup tools to install, doesn't it? Thanks, Jeremy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org Wed Aug 5 14:46:12 2009 From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 19:46:12 +0100 Subject: Parsing Binary Structures; Is there a better way / What is your way? In-Reply-To: <7x3a86gmfe.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <7x3a86gmfe.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: Paul Rubin wrote: > "Martin P. Hellwig" writes: >> what I usually do is read the packet in binary mode, convert the >> output to a concatenated 'binary string'(i.e. '0101011000110') and > > Something wrong with reading the data words as an integer and using > old fashioned shifts and masks to get at the bit fields? No not at all of course, I just found it more readable to slice it instead of shifting and masking; i.e. if the ASCII art schematics of the protocol are included as a comment it is almost an 1 to 1 implementation. Is there an advantage using shifts and masks over my kitchen type solution? -- MPH http://blog.dcuktec.com 'If consumed, best digested with added seasoning to own preference.' From ihatespam at hotmail.com Wed Aug 5 14:47:58 2009 From: ihatespam at hotmail.com (Just Another Victim of the Ambient Morality) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 14:47:58 -0400 Subject: Confessions of a Python fanboy References: <008e82e8$0$9756$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com><4a72d7cf$0$25239$426a34cc@news.free.fr><008eef29$0$9756$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com><4a77eb69$0$22600$426a74cc@news.free.fr> Message-ID: "Steven D'Aprano" wrote in message news:pan.2009.08.04.09.28.49 at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au... > On Tue, 04 Aug 2009 10:03:53 +0200, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote: > >>> Disadvantages: your code is filled with line noise. It's an arbitrary >>> choice between @@ meaning instance attribute and @@ meaning class >>> attribute -- there's no logical reason for choosing one over the other, >>> so you have to memorise which is which. It's easy to get it wrong. >> >> So far that's something I have no difficulty living with. > > I don't like arbitrary symbols. Most people don't -- that's why "line > noise" is unpopular. It's hard to read, hard to write, hard to maintain, > and hard to talk about. The more line-noise, the worse the language. It's not "line noise" if it conveys information... > Of course, *ultimately* every symbol is arbitrary. There's no reason why > "2" should mean the integer two, or "list" should mean a sequence type, > but some symbols have such a long history, or have some other connection > (say, with human languages), that the arbitrariness is lost. For > instance, "+" is the obvious, non-arbitrary choice for the addition > operator in any programming language using Latin symbols, and probably > any programming language on Earth. (Not the *only* choice, but the > obvious one.) > > I have a similar dislike for decorator syntax, because "@" ("at" in > English) has nothing to do with decorations. It's an arbitrary symbol. > One might argue that "$" would have been a more logical choice, because > we turn numerals into currency by decorating it with a $ sign. (At least > in the US, Canada, Australia, and a few other countries.) I use > decorators all the time, and they are a fantastic invention, but the > arbitrariness of the @ syntax is a negative. Oh well, one negative out of > a whole lot of positives isn't too bad. You can think of "@" as describing something being "at" the instance or the class. "$" is totally arbitrary to me 'cause I don't thnk of my code as currency... > At least I only have to deal with *one* such arbitrary symbol that needs > memorizing. There's no need to distinguish between @@function_decorator > and @class_decorator (or should it be the other way around?). Similarly, > Python's choice of syntax for attributes is consistent: object.attribute > works for everything, whether object is a class, an instance, a module, > and whether attribute is callable or not. You can even use it on ints, > provided you are clever about it: You can think of "@" as being at an instance or "@@" to be more emphatically (as the Japanese do in their language) integrated with a class, being available to all instances... or you can simply understand that instance vairables are more common than class variables so the shorter notation is used for the more common case... You want to talk about arbitrariness? Why is len() a function you pass objects into while objects can have methods that describe themselves to you? At least Ruby defines operators using the actual name of the operator instead of you having to remember an arbitrary magic incantation that corresponds to the operator... class Test attr_reader :data def initialize(data) @data = data end # This is the operator part... def + right Test.new @data + right.data end end >>>>> Somebody who knows more Ruby than me should try writing the Zen of >>>>> Ruby. Something like: >>>> (snip childish parody of Python Zen) >>>> >>>> Steven, is that any useful ? >>> >>> It made me feel good. >> >> Why ??? >> >> You don't like Ruby ? Fine, don't use it. Period. I can't see the point >> of all these pissing contests. > > Criticism of a language is a pissing contest? > > Yeah, okay, I was a tad dismissive. I un-apologetically jump to strong > impressions about languages based on minimal use -- but I'm also willing > to change my mind. Ruby certainly looks to me like it has some nice > features. Syntax that looks like Perl isn't one of them though. Yeah, that would be the "pissing contest" part. You could simply have gone to the Ruby newsgroup and posted some criticisms to see what was behind those decisions. However, that would have avoided the pissing contest and perhaps you wanted one... >>> Just because Smalltalk had a particular (mis?)feature >> >> You can drop the 'mis' part IMHO. The point of code blocks in Smalltalk >> is that once you have something as powerful as the message+code blocks >> combo, you just don't need any other 'special form' for control flow. > > Well, maybe, but remember, programming languages are only partly for > communication to the compiler. They also have the requirement to > communicate with human programmers as well, and that's even more > important, because > > (1) humans spent a lot more time working with code than compilers do; > > (2) human programmers charge much more money than compilers do; > > (3) and you can modify the compiler to suit human needs much more easily > than you can modify programmers to suit the compiler's needs. > > So I'd ask, does Smalltalk's message passing model match the way human > beings think? If not, then that's a good sign it might be a misfeature. I think this is overstated. Not all humans think in exactly the same way so it's very presumptuous. It also ignores our intellect. We can change the way we think and we can use this versatility to our advantage. We can increase our productivity in certain tasks by changing the way we think to some other paradigm that better serves a given purpose... >>> doesn't mean that >>> other languages should copy it. >> >> Nope. But OTHO, Python is famous for all the features it copied from >> other languages !-) > > Absolutely! There's nothing wrong with copying *good* features :) The trick, of course, is figuring out which features are good! From http Wed Aug 5 14:51:06 2009 From: http (Paul Rubin) Date: 05 Aug 2009 11:51:06 -0700 Subject: Parsing Binary Structures; Is there a better way / What is your way? References: <7x3a86gmfe.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <7xr5vqw0v9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> "Martin P. Hellwig" writes: > Is there an advantage using shifts and masks over my kitchen type solution? Weren't you complaining about the 8-to-1 expansion from turning each bit to an ascii char? From gdamjan at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 15:05:30 2009 From: gdamjan at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JTQsNC80ZjQsNC9INCT0LXQvtGA0LPQuNC10LLRgdC60Lg=?=) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 21:05:30 +0200 Subject: String to valid Python identifier Message-ID: Is there any easy function in the stdlib to convert any random string in a valid Python identifier .. possibly by replacing non-valid characters with _ ? Python 2.x only, so no need to do Unicode. -- ?????? ( http://softver.org.mk/damjan/ ) Religion ends and philosophy begins, just as alchemy ends and chemistry begins and astrology ends, and astronomy begins. From pdlemper at earthlink.net Wed Aug 5 15:18:26 2009 From: pdlemper at earthlink.net (pdlemper at earthlink.net) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 14:18:26 -0500 Subject: trouble with complex numbers References: <24821423.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: <7gmj75lbijq2k8d8lk6kff7itt76n8ij13@4ax.com> On Wed, 05 Aug 2009 08:18:55 -0700, Scott David Daniels wrote: >I think it explained in the complex math area, but basically EE types >use j, math types use i for exactly the same thing. Since i is so >frequently and index in CS, and there is another strong convention, >why not let the EE types win? > >--Scott David Daniels >Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org i represents current Dave WB3DWE From sturlamolden at yahoo.no Wed Aug 5 15:23:16 2009 From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 12:23:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: access string data from within cython References: <7dtt46F2e5osvU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> Message-ID: <88384285-0147-470d-943f-14cfaa79219f@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com> On 5 Aug, 19:16, "Diez B. Roggisch" wrote: > void foo(void *data, size_t length) > > The wrapper is supposed to be called with a python (byte)string instance, > which might contain more than one '\0'-character. > > So how do I access the raw data of a string? cdef extern void foo(void *data, int length) cdef char *data cdef int length bytestring = ... #whatever rawdata = bytestring length = len(bytestring) foo(data, length) From joshua at joshuakugler.com Wed Aug 5 15:23:31 2009 From: joshua at joshuakugler.com (Joshua Kugler) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 11:23:31 -0800 Subject: Subclassing Python's dict References: <2d56febf0908050732i7792bf7ft32accf1bc1157421@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Xavier Ho wrote: > On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 11:51 AM, Sergey Simonenko > wrote: > >> I subclass builtin 'dict' in my application and experience some problems >> with it. >> > > You should subclass collections.UserDict, and not the default dict class. > Refer to the collections module. Are you referring to Python 3.0? Python 2.6 does not have collections.UserDict j From sturlamolden at yahoo.no Wed Aug 5 15:25:42 2009 From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 12:25:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: access string data from within cython References: <7dtt46F2e5osvU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> <88384285-0147-470d-943f-14cfaa79219f@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <99c677b4-75eb-4a33-a1be-eecbc61c14fc@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> On 5 Aug, 21:23, sturlamolden wrote: > foo(data, length) Oops, that would be foo( data, length) From joshua at joshuakugler.com Wed Aug 5 15:26:48 2009 From: joshua at joshuakugler.com (Joshua Kugler) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 11:26:48 -0800 Subject: Do anyone here use Python *embedded* in a database? References: Message-ID: Jonathan Fine wrote: > Hi > > I'm writing a talk that compares embed and extend, and wondered if > anyone here ever used the Python *embedded* in a database server. > http://twistedmatrix.com/users/glyph/rant/extendit.html > > Web frameworks (such as Django) use extend, to import an extension > module that makes a connection to a database. > > If you have used embed, you might have consulted a page such as: > http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.3/interactive/plpython-funcs.html > Yes, I've used plpython. We had a web application that had account creation logic with salting, encryption, etc, on the passwords. We then wanted to use the same accounts to log in to a Drupal site. Instead of trying to replicate the logic in PHP, I just created a stored procedure with plpython, and we overrode the drupal login check to call something like "SELECT check_account(user, pass)" which would return 1 or 0 on success or failure, respectively. Worked great. j From mensanator at aol.com Wed Aug 5 15:31:05 2009 From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 12:31:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Turtle Graphics are incompatible with gmpy References: <0002b5d3$0$2970$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Message-ID: On Aug 5, 2:19?am, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Wed, 5 Aug 2009 03:49 pm Mensanator wrote: > > > In 3.1, tracing is now a screen attribute, not a turtle atribute. > > I have no idea why > > > ? tooter = turtle.Turtle() > > ? tooter.tracer(False) > > > doesn't give me an error (I thought silent errors were a bad thing). > > What makes it an error? Do you consider the following an error? > > >>> class Test: > > ... ? ? pass > ... > > >>> t = Test() > >>> t.tracer = 5 Come on, even _I_ know this: >>> class Test: pass >>> t = Test() >>> t.tracer Traceback (most recent call last): File "", line 1, in t.tracer AttributeError: 'Test' object has no attribute 'tracer' >>> t.tracer = False >>> t.tracer False > > Perhaps you mean, it's an API change you didn't know about, and you wish to > protest that Turtle Graphics made an incompatible API change without > telling you? What does this mean? >>> import turtle >>> tooter = turtle.Turtle() >>> tooter.tracer Traceback (most recent call last): File "", line 1, in tooter.tracer AttributeError: 'Turtle' object has no attribute 'tracer' >>> tooter.hideturtle() >>> tooter.speed('fast') >>> turtle.update() >>> turtle.tracer How did the tracer attribute appear out of thin air? And more importantly, why, if has been deprecated and dropped from 3.x? > > > Naturally, having tracing on caused my program to crash. > > It seg faulted or raised an exception? Why did you snip it? Should I not refer to this as a crash? Traceback (most recent call last): File "K:\user_python26\turtle\turtle_xy_Py3.py", line 95, in tooter.goto(the_coord) File "C:\Python31\lib\turtle.py", line 1771, in goto self._goto(Vec2D(*x)) File "C:\Python31\lib\turtle.py", line 3165, in _goto nhops = 1+int((diffsq**0.5)/(3*(1.1**self._speed)*self._speed)) ValueError: mpq.pow fractional exponent, inexact-root > > [...] > > > Unfortunately, that calculation of nhops is illegal if diffsq is > > an .mpf (gmpy floating point). Otherwise, you get > > How does diffsq get to be a mpf? No idea. I neglected to mention I'm using the new gmpy 1.10. Don't know if that has any bearing. > Are gmpy floats supposed to be supported? Apparently not, as gmpy has only limited exponential capability. Looks like I need to change turtle.py to use math.sqrt(diffsq) or float(diffsq)**0.5. Or not pass turtle.py any .mpz since it can't handle them. > > -- > Steven From sturlamolden at yahoo.no Wed Aug 5 15:36:11 2009 From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 12:36:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Is this a bug in multiprocessing or in my script? References: <2f26a239-2f06-40f8-b0f0-d2e55edbe5e5@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> <74bd61ff-c666-4f78-9441-5422e858ea0b@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <6e700877-2723-4cae-a5b1-708475860b98@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> On 5 Aug, 15:40, Jesse Noller wrote: > Sturla; > > That bug was fixed unless I'm missing something. It is still in SVN. Change every call to os._exit to sys.exit please. :) http://svn.python.org/view/python/branches/release26-maint/Lib/multiprocessing/forking.py?revision=66717&view=markup http://svn.python.org/view/python/branches/release31-maint/Lib/multiprocessing/forking.py?revision=73579&view=markup From sturlamolden at yahoo.no Wed Aug 5 15:40:40 2009 From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 12:40:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Is this a bug in multiprocessing or in my script? References: <2f26a239-2f06-40f8-b0f0-d2e55edbe5e5@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> <74bd61ff-c666-4f78-9441-5422e858ea0b@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> <6e700877-2723-4cae-a5b1-708475860b98@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: On 5 Aug, 21:36, sturlamolden wrote: > http://svn.python.org/view/python/branches/release26-maint/Lib/multip... > > http://svn.python.org/view/python/branches/release31-maint/Lib/multip... http://svn.python.org/view/python/trunk/Lib/multiprocessing/forking.py?revision=65864&view=markup From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org Wed Aug 5 15:41:26 2009 From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 20:41:26 +0100 Subject: Parsing Binary Structures; Is there a better way / What is your way? In-Reply-To: <7xr5vqw0v9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <7x3a86gmfe.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <7xr5vqw0v9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: Paul Rubin wrote: > "Martin P. Hellwig" writes: >> Is there an advantage using shifts and masks over my kitchen type solution? > > Weren't you complaining about the 8-to-1 expansion from turning each bit > to an ascii char? Yes you are (of course) right, my 'dream' solution would be something that accepts slice indeces on bit level. Your reasoning did reveal some flaws in my approach though ;-) -- MPH http://blog.dcuktec.com 'If consumed, best digested with added seasoning to own preference.' From rylesny at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 15:48:24 2009 From: rylesny at gmail.com (ryles) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 12:48:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Is this a bug in multiprocessing or in my script? References: Message-ID: On Aug 4, 10:37?pm, erikcw wrote: > Traceback (most recent call last): > ? File "scraper.py", line 144, in > ? ? print pool.map(scrape, range(10)) > ? File "/usr/lib/python2.6/multiprocessing/pool.py", line 148, in map > ? ? return self.map_async(func, iterable, chunksize).get() > ? File "/usr/lib/python2.6/multiprocessing/pool.py", line 422, in get > ? ? raise self._value > TypeError: expected string or buffer This is almost certainly due to your scrape call raising an exception. In the parent process, multiprocessing will detect if one of its workers have terminated with an exception and then re-raise it. However, only the exception and not the original traceback is made available, which is making debugging more difficult for you. Here's a simple example which demonstrates this behavior: *** from multiprocessing import Pool *** def evil_on_8(x): ... if x == 8: raise ValueError("I DONT LIKE THE NUMBER 8") ... return x + 1 ... *** pool = Pool(processes=4) >>> pool.map(evil_on_8, range(5)) [1, 2, 3, 4, 5] *** pool.map(evil_on_8, range(10)) # 8 will cause evilness. Traceback (most recent call last): File "", line 1, in File "/bb/real/3ps/lib/python2.6/multiprocessing/pool.py", line 148, in map return self.map_async(func, iterable, chunksize).get() File "/bb/real/3ps/lib/python2.6/multiprocessing/pool.py", line 422, in get raise self._value ValueError: I DONT LIKE THE NUMBER 8 *** My recommendation is that you wrap your scrape code inside a try/ except and log any exception. I usually do this with logging.exception (), or if logging is not in use, the traceback module. After that you can simply re-raise it. From no.email at please.post Wed Aug 5 15:58:39 2009 From: no.email at please.post (kj) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 19:58:39 +0000 (UTC) Subject: no-clobber dicts? References: <00027aa9$0$2969$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Message-ID: In <00027aa9$0$2969$c3e8da3 at news.astraweb.com> Steven D'Aprano writes: >No problem. Here you go: >http://www.cybersource.com.au/users/steve/python/constants.py Extremely helpful. Thanks! kynn From wolfram.hinderer at googlemail.com Wed Aug 5 16:00:07 2009 From: wolfram.hinderer at googlemail.com (Wolfram Hinderer) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 13:00:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Turtle Graphics are incompatible with gmpy References: <0002b5d3$0$2970$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Message-ID: <214e2b0a-15c9-4d2b-a836-9ad75a13fc6c@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> On 5 Aug., 21:31, Mensanator wrote: > > >>> import turtle > >>> tooter = turtle.Turtle() > >>> tooter.tracer > > Traceback (most recent call last): > ? File "", line 1, in > ? ? tooter.tracer > AttributeError: 'Turtle' object has no attribute 'tracer'>>> tooter.hideturtle() > >>> tooter.speed('fast') > >>> turtle.update() > >>> turtle.tracer > > > > How did the tracer attribute appear out of thin air? You seem to confuse the "tooter" Turtle object and the "turtle" module when talking about "the tracer attribute". From piet at cs.uu.nl Wed Aug 5 16:07:29 2009 From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 22:07:29 +0200 Subject: Is this a bug in multiprocessing or in my script? References: <2f26a239-2f06-40f8-b0f0-d2e55edbe5e5@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> <74bd61ff-c666-4f78-9441-5422e858ea0b@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> <6e700877-2723-4cae-a5b1-708475860b98@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: >>>>> sturlamolden (s) wrote: >s> On 5 Aug, 15:40, Jesse Noller wrote: >>> Sturla; >>> >>> That bug was fixed unless I'm missing something. >s> It is still in SVN. Change every call to os._exit to sys.exit >s> please. :) Calling os.exit in a child process may be dangerous. It can cause unflushed buffers to be flushed twice: once in the parent and once in the child. -- Piet van Oostrum URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4] Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org From ethan at stoneleaf.us Wed Aug 5 16:08:00 2009 From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 13:08:00 -0700 Subject: Turtle Graphics are incompatible with gmpy In-Reply-To: References: <0002b5d3$0$2970$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Message-ID: <4A79E6A0.5040404@stoneleaf.us> Mensanator wrote: > > What does this mean? > > >>>>import turtle >>>>tooter = turtle.Turtle() >>>>*tooter*.tracer > > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "", line 1, in > tooter.tracer > AttributeError: 'Turtle' object has no attribute 'tracer' > >>>>tooter.hideturtle() >>>>tooter.speed('fast') >>>>turtle.update() >>>>*turtle*.tracer > > > > How did the tracer attribute appear out of thin air? Perhaps I am missing something (wouldn't surprise me!) but it seems that the first time you are looking for a tracer on 'tooter', and the second time you are looking for a tracer on 'turtle'. After *turtle.tracer* succeeds, does *tooter.tracer*? ~Ethan~ From no.email at please.post Wed Aug 5 16:09:25 2009 From: no.email at please.post (kj) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 20:09:25 +0000 (UTC) Subject: How to combine regexps? Message-ID: One of the nice things one can do with Perl's regexp's is illustrated in the following example: my $gly = qr/gg[ucag]/i my $ala = qr/gc[ucag]/i; my $val = qr/gu[ucag]/i; my $leu = qr/uu[ag]|cu[ucag]/i; my $ile = qr/au[uca]/i; my $aliphatic = qr/$gly|$ala|$val|$leu|$ile/; In other words, one can build regular expressions by re-combining other regular expressions. Is there a way to do this with Python's regexps? TIA! kynn From aahz at pythoncraft.com Wed Aug 5 16:11:37 2009 From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) Date: 5 Aug 2009 13:11:37 -0700 Subject: Printing with colors in a portable way References: <33e19169-19b4-497a-b262-2bcf7b5637d5@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> <19e16923-b200-498b-9ab2-f7d316b568a6@d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: In article <19e16923-b200-498b-9ab2-f7d316b568a6 at d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>, r wrote: >On Aug 2, 9:52=A0pm, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote: > >> Much as I hate to say, use a cross-platform GUI -- Tkinter comes with >> Python, > >Why is Tkinter such a whipping boy of the Python community? Can you explain what the connection is between my post and yours? -- Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/ "...string iteration isn't about treating strings as sequences of strings, it's about treating strings as sequences of characters. The fact that characters are also strings is the reason we have problems, but characters are strings for other good reasons." --Aahz From piet at cs.uu.nl Wed Aug 5 16:14:04 2009 From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 22:14:04 +0200 Subject: http access produces 503 References: <3b5ab07c-7b0b-4d23-965b-192dc86cf6ff@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> Message-ID: >>>>> Rog (R) wrote: >R> I am porting a simple code from Perl, the website asks for usr/pwd and >R> the server's side Perl script makes atemp ftp dir for file upload. >R> The original Perl script connects okay, does its job. The same URL >R> stuffed into FF3 performs the same way. >R> My Python script I am sweating out for past four days (noob!) gets >R> consistently "503", even with user agen set to: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; >R> U; Windows NT 5.1; it; rv:1.8.1.11) Gecko/20071127 Firefox/2.0.0.11. >R> Snippets of relevant code below. >R> Please, help me understand how this same code lets me log in into my >R> router usr/pwd running .asp, but this !@#$% perl script returns to me >R> w/503 c*ap? >R> Thank you. Which perl script? >R> Do I need to set any proxy? The server is on intranet and the FF3 is >R> set to proxy. The original Perl script did not use any proxy setting. >R> 

>R> url = http://example.com/ftpsetup.pl?username=boofa&nodeid=42
>R> #########################################################
>R> # create a password manager
>R>     password_mgr = urllib2.HTTPPasswordMgrWithDefaultRealm()
>R> # Add the username and password.
>R> # If we knew the realm, we could use it instead of ``None``.
>R>     password_mgr.add_password(None, url, uid, pcode)
>R>     handler = urllib2.HTTPBasicAuthHandler(password_mgr)
>R>     class Mopener(URLopener): version = "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U;
>R> Windows NT 5.1; it; rv:1.8.1.11) Gecko/20071127 Firefox/2.0.0.11"

>R>     opener = Mopener()

>R> # create "opener" (OpenerDirector instance)

>R>     opener = urllib2.build_opener(handler)
>R>     opener.addheaders = [('User-agent', 'Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U;
>R> Windows NT 5.1; it; rv:1.8.1.11) Gecko/20071127 Firefox/2.0.0.11')]

>R>     opener.version = "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; it; rv:
>R> 1.8.1.11) Gecko/20071127 Firefox/2.0.0.11"

>R>     print opener.version
>R> # timeout in seconds
>R>     timeout = 10
>R>     socket.setdefaulttimeout(timeout)

>R> # Install the opener all calls to urllib2.urlopen use our opener.
>R>     urllib2.install_opener(opener)

>R>     try:
>R>         response = opener.open(url)
>R>         # "http://www.useragent.org/" tested okay!!!
>R>         print"ok = 1"
>R>     except:
>R>         print "error 1"
>R> #####################################################################################

This code is a mess. The indentation is wrong so it can't be your real
code. Imports are missing. And there is a lot of garbage that doen't do
anything. E.g. The Mopener business is not used. install_opener is not
used.

Please make a minimal examples and check if that fails to. Like:

import urllib2
import socket

url = 'http://example.com/ftpsetup.pl?username=boofa&nodeid=42'
uid = ...
pcode = ...

# create a password manager
password_mgr = urllib2.HTTPPasswordMgrWithDefaultRealm()
# Add the username and password.
# If we knew the realm, we could use it instead of ``None``.
password_mgr.add_password(None, url, uid, pcode)
handler = urllib2.HTTPBasicAuthHandler(password_mgr)

# create "opener" (OpenerDirector instance)
opener = urllib2.build_opener(handler)

# timeout in seconds
timeout = 10
socket.setdefaulttimeout(timeout)

try:
    response = opener.open(url)
    print response.read()
    print"ok = 1"
except:
    print "error 1"



>R> output from the above:

>R> Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; it; rv:1.8.1.11) Gecko/
>R> 20071127 Firefox/2.0.0.11
>R> error 1
>R> Error code:  503
>R> ('Service Unavailable', 'The server cannot process the request due to
>R> a high load')

That suggests that there is a real problem in the server. Or that your
url causes some problems.

-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From pfeldman at verizon.net  Wed Aug  5 16:16:31 2009
From: pfeldman at verizon.net (Dr. Phillip M. Feldman)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 13:16:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: trouble with complex numbers
In-Reply-To: 
References: <24821423.post@talk.nabble.com> 
Message-ID: <24835436.post@talk.nabble.com>


I am using Python 2.5, and most of the cmath functions are not yet available
in this version.  Thanks!

Phillip

P.S. In your code, that should be x+= 0J

P.P.S. I wish that the documentation indicated anything that is new.


Christian Heimes-2 wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> phase() has been added to Python 2.6 and 3.0. It's not available in 
> Python 2.5 and earlier. If you'd used cmath.phase() instead of the ugly 
> "from cmath import *" statement you'd have seen the correct error message.
> 
> You can write your own phase() function. This function is mostly correct 
> unless either the real and/or the imag part is NaN or INF.
> 
> from math import atan2
> 
> def phase(z):
>      z += 1j # convert int, long, float to complex
>      return atan2(z.imag, z.real)
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
> 

-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/trouble-with-complex-numbers-tp24821423p24835436.html
Sent from the Python - python-list mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Wed Aug  5 16:18:02 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 17:18:02 -0300
Subject: Python configuration question when python scripts are executed
	using Appweb as web server.
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

En Tue, 04 Aug 2009 10:15:24 -0300, IronyOfLife 
escribi?:
> On Aug 3, 8:42?pm, "Gabriel Genellina"  wrote:
>> En Mon, 03 Aug 2009 11:04:07 -0300, IronyOfLife   
>> escribi?:
>>
>> > I have installed python 2.6.2 in windows xp professional machine. I
>> > have set the following environment variables -- PYTHONPATH. It points
>> > to following windows folders: python root folder, the lib folder and
>> > lib-tk folder.
>>
>> Why? Did you read it somewhere? Usually there is no need to set the ?
>> PYTHONPATH variable at all; remove it.
>
> Setting PYTHONPATH environment variables is mentioned in Python docs.

Could you provide a link please? Setting PYTHONPATH should not be
necesary, and in fact it's a very bad idea. Environment variables are
global, but Python modules may depend on the Python version, architecture,
install location... By example, you may install a 64 bits Python 3.1
version *and* a 32 bits Python 2.5 version and they both can coexist
peacefully - but an extension module compiled for the former cannot be
used in the later version. You must build a separate library for each
version, and install them in two separate directories. But since the
PYTHONPATH variable is shared by all installations, which directory should
contain?
It's best not to use PYTHONPATH at all and rely on other alternatives
(like .pth files, that are searched relative to the current Python
executable, so different versions use different configuration files)

> I solved the issue temporarily by copying the gnutls related dlls to
> the path searched by python.exe

Glad to see you could finally fix it!

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From robert.kern at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 16:27:51 2009
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 15:27:51 -0500
Subject: trouble with complex numbers
In-Reply-To: <24835436.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <24821423.post@talk.nabble.com> 
	<24835436.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-05 15:16, Dr. Phillip M. Feldman wrote:
> I am using Python 2.5, and most of the cmath functions are not yet available
> in this version.  Thanks!
>
> Phillip
>
> P.S. In your code, that should be x+= 0J
>
> P.P.S. I wish that the documentation indicated anything that is new.

It does.

http://docs.python.org/library/cmath#cmath.phase

"New in version 2.6."

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From malc0de.encrypt at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 16:28:30 2009
From: malc0de.encrypt at gmail.com (MalC0de)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 13:28:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Error on Attaching to the process while debugging
Message-ID: <21dbc649-2f82-4e4c-9777-c8a58c25a9e0@r2g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

Hello there, I'm writting a debugger,
the problem is there no good interpretation ...

here's the codes:

my_debugger.py :

#!/usr/bin/env python
from ctypes import *
from my_debugger_defines import *
kernel32 = windll.kernel32
class debugger():
    def __init__(self):
	  self.h_process = None
	  self.pid = None
	  self.debugger_active = False
          pass
    def load(self,path_to_exe):
        creation_flags = DEBUG_PROCESS
        startupinfo = STARTUPINFO()
        process_information = PROCESSINFORMATION()
        startupinfo.dwFlags = 0x1
        startupinfo.wShowWindow = 0x0
        startupinfo.cb = sizeof(startupinfo)
        if kernel32.CreateProcessA(path_to_exe,
                                    None,
                                    None,
                                    None,
                                    None,
                                    creation_flags,
                                    None,
                                    None,
                                    byref(startupinfo),
                                    byref(process_information)):
                  print "[*]we have sucessfully launched the process"
                  print "[*]PID %d" % process_information.dwProcessId
                  self.h_process = self.open_process
(process_information.dwProcessId)
        else:
            print"[*]Error 0x%08x." % kernel32.GetLastError()

def Open_process(self,pid):
    h_process = kernel32.OpenProcess(PROCESS_ALL_ACCESS,pid,False)
    return h_process
def attach(self,pid):
        self.h_process = self.open_process(pid)
        # We attempt to attach to the process
        # if this fails we exit the call
        if kernel32.DebugActiveProcess(pid):
            self.debugger_active = True
            self.pid             = int(pid)

        else:
            print "[*] Unable to attach to the process."

def run(self):
    while self.debugger_active == True:
        self.get_debug_event()
def get_debug_event(self):
    debug_event = DEBUG_EVENT()
    continue_status = DBG_CONTINUE
    if kernel32.WaitForDebugEvent(byref(debug_event),INFINITE):
        raw_input("Press a key to continue ...")
    self.debugger_active = False
    kernel32.ContinueDebugEvent
(debug_event.dwProdcessid,debug_event.dwThreadId,continue_status)
    def detach(self):
        if kernel32.DeugActiveProcessStop(self.pid):
            print "[*]Finished debugging. exiting ..."
            return True
        else:
            print "there was an error"
            return false

it's already have a method named : Attach ...

ok, the next source ,
my_test.py which lead python to launching the calc.exe for testing
purpose .

my_test.py :

#!/usr/bin/python
import my_debugger
debugger = my_debugger.debugger()
pid = raw_input("Enter the PID of the process to attach to :")
debugger.attach(int(pid))
debugger.detach()

and finally the essential definitions into my_debugger_defines.py

#!/usr/bin/env python
from ctypes import *
WORD = c_ushort
DWORD = c_ulong
LPBYTE = POINTER(c_ubyte)
LPTSTR = POINTER(c_char)
HANDLE = c_void_p
DEBUG_PROCESS = 0x00000001
CREATE_NEW_CONSOLE = 0x00000010
class STARTUPINFO(Structure):
    _fielnds_ = [
        ("cb",                                  DWORD),
        ("lpReserved",                          LPTSTR),
        ("lpDesktop",                           LPTSTR),
        ("lpTitle",                             LPTSTR),
        ("dwX",                                 DWORD),
        ("dwY",                                 DWORD),
        ("dwXSize",                             DWORD),
        ("dwYSize",                             DWORD),
        ("dwXCountChars",                       DWORD),
        ("dwFillAttribute",                     DWORD),
        ("dwFlags",                             DWORD),
        ("wShowWindow",                          WORD),
        ("cbReserved2",                          WORD),
        ("lpReserved2",                        LPBYTE),
        ("hStdInput",                          HANDLE),
        ("hStdOutput",                         HANDLE),
        ("hStdError",                          HANDLE),
    ]
class PROCESSINFORMATION(Structure):
    _fields_ = [
        ("hProcess",                           HANDLE),
        ("hThread",                            HANDLE),
        ("dwProcessId",                         DWORD),
        ("dwThreadId",                          DWORD),
    ]

when you type : python my_test.py it must run without any problem, but
seems errors occures while interpretation :

Enter the PID of the process to attach to :212
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\python25\2\my_Test.py", line 5, in 
    debugger.attach(int(pid))
AttributeError: debugger instance has no attribute 'attach'

it's nasty shit !
the my_debugger is already has a definition for attach() ,

please help me up,

thanks ...


From jnoller at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 16:28:45 2009
From: jnoller at gmail.com (Jesse Noller)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 13:28:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is this a bug in multiprocessing or in my script?
References: 
	<2f26a239-2f06-40f8-b0f0-d2e55edbe5e5@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> 
	<74bd61ff-c666-4f78-9441-5422e858ea0b@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> 
	<6e700877-2723-4cae-a5b1-708475860b98@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: <4a238650-45b0-4478-884f-257fa2d3e9ba@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 5, 3:40?pm, sturlamolden  wrote:
> On 5 Aug, 21:36, sturlamolden  wrote:
>
> >http://svn.python.org/view/python/branches/release26-maint/Lib/multip...
>
> >http://svn.python.org/view/python/branches/release31-maint/Lib/multip...
>
> http://svn.python.org/view/python/trunk/Lib/multiprocessing/forking.p...

Since the bug was never filed in the tracker (it was sent to my
personal mail box, and I dropped it - sorry), I've filed a new one:

http://bugs.python.org/issue6653

In the future please use the bug tracker to file and track bugs with,
so things are not as lossy.

jesse


From massi_srb at msn.com  Wed Aug  5 16:30:27 2009
From: massi_srb at msn.com (Massi)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 13:30:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Web page data and urllib2.urlopen
Message-ID: <469a6df4-92da-4fd1-bffd-5fefa8cdf3ed@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

Hi everyone, I'm using the urllib2 library to get the html source code
of web pages. In general it works great, but I'm having to do with a
financial web site which does not provide the souce code I expect. As
a matter of fact if you try:

import urllib2
res = urllib2.urlopen("http://www.marketwatch.com/story/mondays-
biggest-gaining-and-declining-stocks-2009-07-27")
page = res.read()
print page

you will see that the printed code is very different from the one
given, for example, by mozilla. Since I have really little knowledge
in html I can't even understand if this is a python or html problem.
Can anyone give me some help?
Thanks in advance.


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Wed Aug  5 16:35:02 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 13:35:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is this a bug in multiprocessing or in my script?
References: 
	<2f26a239-2f06-40f8-b0f0-d2e55edbe5e5@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> 
	<74bd61ff-c666-4f78-9441-5422e858ea0b@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> 
	<6e700877-2723-4cae-a5b1-708475860b98@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: <8d19bdd2-ac70-4fd0-bea3-56ab520048de@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On 5 Aug, 22:07, Piet van Oostrum  wrote:

> Calling os.exit in a child process may be dangerous. It can cause
> unflushed buffers to be flushed twice: once in the parent and once in
> the child.

I assume you mean sys.exit. If this is the case, multiprocessing needs
a mechanism to chose between os._exit and sys.exit for child
processes. Calling os._exit might also be dangerous because it could
prevent necessary clean-up code from executing  (e.g. in C
extensions). I had a case where shared memory on Linux (System V IPC)
leaked due to os._exit. The deallocator for my extension type never
got to execute in child processes. The deallocator was needed to
release the shared segment when its reference count dropped to 0.
Changing to sys.exit solved the problem. On Windows there was no leak,
because the kernel did the reference counting.




From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 16:35:23 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 13:35:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to combine regexps?
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 5, 1:09?pm, kj  wrote:
> One of the nice things one can do with Perl's regexp's is illustrated
> in the following example:
>
> my $gly = qr/gg[ucag]/i
> my $ala = qr/gc[ucag]/i;
> my $val = qr/gu[ucag]/i;
> my $leu = qr/uu[ag]|cu[ucag]/i;
> my $ile = qr/au[uca]/i;
>
> my $aliphatic = qr/$gly|$ala|$val|$leu|$ile/;
>
> In other words, one can build regular expressions by re-combining
> other regular expressions.
>
> Is there a way to do this with Python's regexps?

Your example is just string manipulation.

You're not combining regexps here, you are combining strings which you
(evidently) will soon use to create a regexp.

Yes, you can do that in Python as well, in exactly the same way, using
Python's string manipulation capabilities.


Carl Banks


From no.email at please.post  Wed Aug  5 16:36:07 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 20:36:07 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to combine regexps?
References: 
Message-ID: 

In  kj  writes:



>One of the nice things one can do with Perl's regexp's is illustrated
>in the following example:

>my $gly = qr/gg[ucag]/i
>my $ala = qr/gc[ucag]/i;
>my $val = qr/gu[ucag]/i;
>my $leu = qr/uu[ag]|cu[ucag]/i;
>my $ile = qr/au[uca]/i;

>my $aliphatic = qr/$gly|$ala|$val|$leu|$ile/;


>In other words, one can build regular expressions by re-combining
>other regular expressions.

>Is there a way to do this with Python's regexps?


OK, answering my own question here, it looks like the only way to
do this is to leave the "component" expressions as regular strings,
and combine those, before compiling them into regexps.

Easy enough.

kynn


From joncle at googlemail.com  Wed Aug  5 16:39:33 2009
From: joncle at googlemail.com (Jon Clements)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 13:39:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Parsing Binary Structures; Is there a better way / What is your 
	way?
References: 
	<7x3a86gmfe.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> 
	
	<7xr5vqw0v9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> 
	
Message-ID: <1211ccf7-1147-42de-ab62-3e5b33b09011@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On 5 Aug, 20:41, "Martin P. Hellwig" 
wrote:
> Paul Rubin wrote:
> > "Martin P. Hellwig"  writes:
> >> Is there an advantage using shifts and masks over my kitchen type solution?
>
> > Weren't you complaining about the 8-to-1 expansion from turning each bit
> > to an ascii char?
>
> Yes you are (of course) right, my 'dream' solution would be something
> that accepts slice indeces on bit level. Your reasoning did reveal some
> flaws in my approach though ;-)
>
> --
> MPHhttp://blog.dcuktec.com
> 'If consumed, best digested with added seasoning to own preference.'

Ahh huh -- found it...

ID: DLT119
Desc: datasyzygy misc. development, production and accounts.
Date: 2008-12-09
File: pybits.py
"""
Implements a python level interface to reading bit fields with an
associated type. Fields are accessed via __getitem__ and must be a
valid python name. eg:

class MyStructure:
    a = BitField(4, int)
    b = BitField(6, int)
    c = BitField(2, int)
    d = BitField(36, str)
"""

Ummm, seems I left the rest pretty vague, but I'm guessing that's what
you're after, and I'm fairly curious to see what I wrote... mind you,
not too hard to write again now that's jogged my memory! (although
after a couple at the pub, not going to do it tonight!)

Cheers,

Jon.



From mensanator at aol.com  Wed Aug  5 16:40:28 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 13:40:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Turtle Graphics are incompatible with gmpy
References: 
	<0002b5d3$0$2970$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <87b655e8-937b-4f62-ad1e-5165d547a7bd@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 5, 3:08?pm, Ethan Furman  wrote:
> Mensanator wrote:
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > What does this mean?
>
> >>>>import turtle
> >>>>tooter = turtle.Turtle()
> >>>>*tooter*.tracer
>
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> > ? File "", line 1, in 
> > ? ? tooter.tracer
> > AttributeError: 'Turtle' object has no attribute 'tracer'
>
> >>>>tooter.hideturtle()
> >>>>tooter.speed('fast')
> >>>>turtle.update()
> >>>>*turtle*.tracer
>
> > 
>
> > How did the tracer attribute appear out of thin air?
>
> Perhaps I am missing something (wouldn't surprise me!) but it seems that
> the first time you are looking for a tracer on 'tooter', and the second
> time you are looking for a tracer on 'turtle'. ?

Duh. I could have looked at that from now til the sun don't shine and
not seen it. And I even retyped it, no cut/paste.

> After *turtle.tracer*
> succeeds, does *tooter.tracer*?

No, that was my mistake. Too late now as the record is gone, but I
could have sworn I had the math exception first. That's what made
me go realize the tracing wasn't off which led me to add .screen.

Sounds like I should have gotten the attribute error first.

Maybe I did and am mis-remembering it. Usually, I don't start keeping
notes at first because I'm not expecting failure.

>
> ~Ethan~



From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Wed Aug  5 16:41:53 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 13:41:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is this a bug in multiprocessing or in my script?
References: 
	<2f26a239-2f06-40f8-b0f0-d2e55edbe5e5@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> 
	<74bd61ff-c666-4f78-9441-5422e858ea0b@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> 
	<6e700877-2723-4cae-a5b1-708475860b98@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> 
	 
	<4a238650-45b0-4478-884f-257fa2d3e9ba@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <54cdf823-7b2c-4ff8-b1f2-b8091a7daeb8@d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On 5 Aug, 22:28, Jesse Noller  wrote:

> http://bugs.python.org/issue6653
>
> In the future please use the bug tracker to file and track bugs with,
> so things are not as lossy.

Ok, sorry :)

Also see Piet's comment here. He has a valid case against sys.exit in
some cases. Thus it appears that both ways of shutting down child
processes might be dangerous: If we don't want buffers to flush we
have to use os._exit. If we want clean-up code to execute we have to
use sys.exit. If we want both we are screwed. :(






From netgraviton at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 16:42:40 2009
From: netgraviton at gmail.com (WordStream)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 13:42:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [ATTN] Sr. Software Development Engineer
Message-ID: 

Postion Title - Sr. Software Development Engineer

Job Responsibilities
The Sr. Software Development Engineer will be responsible for the
design, development and implementation of the award-winning WordStream
suite of products.

Development is presently done primarily using Python on the server and
Adobe Flex/HTML/AJAX as a Rich Internet Application (RIA) frontend.
However, like everything in the computing industry, we're constantly
evolving how we work.  We're always on the lookout for newer and
better technologies, and as a result, the technologies we use tomorrow
are likely to be different.

This is a full-time telecommute position.  The Sr. Software
Development Engineer can choose to work in our Boston office, or they
can choose to work from at home or from any location in the world.

Qualifications
The Sr. Software Development Engineer will be an individual who has
top-notch coding skills, and can demonstrate an aptitude to learn new
technologies.

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Flex) is not a requirement; we're looking for people with a history of
leveraging any technology to create masterpieces.

Prior experience working on web analytics applications, search
engines, content management systems or other Web publishing systems is
a plus.

Please note, only candidates with a bachelor's degree in computer
science or engineering, or, a very substantial amount of related
technical coursework and work experience in a related field will be
considered.

Related Skills
Python, Adobe Flex, Structured Query Language (SQL), Object-Oriented
Programming, SQLite, Open-Source software development, Git, Object-
Relational Mapping (ORM), Postgres SQL, AJAX, HTML, Search Engine
Optimization (SEO) or Search Engine Marketing (SEM)

Compensation
?	Full-time salaried position, with competitive salary.
?	Position includes equity participation and comprehensive benefits
(healthcare, vision and dental).
?	Flexibility to work from any location, worldwide.

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resume to jobs at WordStream dot com.


From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Wed Aug  5 16:45:09 2009
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 13:45:09 -0700
Subject: Do anyone here use Python *embedded* in a database?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Jonathan Fine wrote:
> anyone here ever used the Python *embedded* in a database server.

There is also the case of using SQLite where it shares the same process as
your Python code (and nothing else) and is a standard part of the Python
library.

You can add your own functions and collations and if using APSW then you can
also go way further than a regular database and add virtual tables and
virtual storage.

SQLite generally outperforms database servers since there is no cross
process or network communication until you get to larger workloads and/or
concurrent database access which database servers are more tuned for.

Roger



From jnoller at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 16:50:03 2009
From: jnoller at gmail.com (Jesse Noller)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 13:50:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is this a bug in multiprocessing or in my script?
References: 
	<2f26a239-2f06-40f8-b0f0-d2e55edbe5e5@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> 
	<74bd61ff-c666-4f78-9441-5422e858ea0b@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> 
	<6e700877-2723-4cae-a5b1-708475860b98@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> 
	 
	<4a238650-45b0-4478-884f-257fa2d3e9ba@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<54cdf823-7b2c-4ff8-b1f2-b8091a7daeb8@d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 5, 4:41?pm, sturlamolden  wrote:
> On 5 Aug, 22:28, Jesse Noller  wrote:
>
> >http://bugs.python.org/issue6653
>
> > In the future please use the bug tracker to file and track bugs with,
> > so things are not as lossy.
>
> Ok, sorry :)
>
> Also see Piet's comment here. He has a valid case against sys.exit in
> some cases. Thus it appears that both ways of shutting down child
> processes might be dangerous: If we don't want buffers to flush we
> have to use os._exit. If we want clean-up code to execute we have to
> use sys.exit. If we want both we are screwed. :(

Comments around this bug should go in the bug report - again, so we
don't loose them. I do not personally subscribe to this group , so
it's very easy to miss things.

jesse


From mensanator at aol.com  Wed Aug  5 17:03:05 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 14:03:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Turtle Graphics are incompatible with gmpy
References: 
	<0002b5d3$0$2970$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4a7936a4$0$1552$91cee783@newsreader03.highway.telekom.at> 
	 
	<4A79C7E2.3000406@aon.at>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 5, 12:56?pm, Gregor Lingl  wrote:
> Mensanator schrieb:
>
>
>
>
>
> >> It didn't form 2.5 to 2.6 (at least not intentionally). But with the
> >> indroduction of the TurtleScreen class and the Screen class/object
> >> (singleton) a few of the turtle methods were also implemented as screen
> >> methods and as turtle methods declared deprecated (see docs of Python
> >> 2.6). These deprecated turtle methods do not occur as turtle methods any
> >> more in Python 3.x.
>
> > More info.
>
> > Yes, there is no tracer attribute...when the object is created.
>
> > But watch this (Python 3.1):
>
> >>>> import turtle
> >>>> tooter = turtle.Turtle()
> >>>> tooter.tracer
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> > ? File "", line 1, in 
> > ? ? tooter.tracer
> > AttributeError: 'Turtle' object has no attribute 'tracer'
> >>>> tooter.hideturtle()
> >>>> tooter.speed('fast')
> >>>> turtle.update()
> >>>> turtle.tracer
> > 
>
> > Now, after setting hide, speed, update, a tracer exists.
>
> No,

Yeah, I mistyped my example, sorry about that. I thought sure
it was the math error that lead me to the tracer issue, but that
might have been a mistake.

>
> Nevertheless I'd like to see a working Python 2.5 version of your script.

I've commented out the parts that v2.5 doesn't have.
So the pen is still down and I have no .dot function,
but the gotos appear to still work as evidenced by
the large black square it now draws.

With tracing on in 2.5, I see the turtle move around
the square. With tracing off, I still the the square
outined, but without a turtle and much faster.

With 3.1, the screen is completely blank for 3-4 seconds and appears
all at once when it's done.

import gmpy

##   (even) hi----|
##                |
##                lo (odd)
## or
##
##   (even) lo
##           |
##           |
##           ----hi (odd)
##
##
##
##

import turtle

tooter = turtle.Turtle()

#tooter.hideturtle()
tooter.speed('fast')
#turtle.update()
tooter.tracer(False)
#tooter.penup()
tooter.color('black')

s = ['1','0']
while len(s[0])<10000:
    s = [''.join(s), s[0]]


origin = [0,0]
if s[0] == '0':
  tooter.goto(origin)
  #tooter.dot(1)
if s[1] == '0':
  tooter.goto([1,0])
  #tooter.dot(1)

print len(s[0])

for i,j in enumerate(s[0]):
  the_coord=[]
  cur_root = gmpy.sqrt(i)
  lo__root = gmpy.sqrt(i)**2
  hi__root = (gmpy.sqrt(i)+1)**2

  if hi__root%2==0:
    side = 'northeast'
  else:
    side = 'southwest'

  elbow = (hi__root - lo__root)/2 + lo__root + 1

  if i>= elbow:
    side_len = i - elbow
    elbow_plus = True
  else:
    side_len = elbow - i
    elbow_plus = False

  if side == 'northeast':
    elbow_offset = [(gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)/2 +1,-((gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)/2
+1)]
  else:
    elbow_offset = [-((gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)/2 +1),((gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)/
2 +1)]

  elbow_coord = [origin[0]+elbow_offset[0],origin[1]+elbow_offset[1]]

  if i != hi__root and i != lo__root:
    if i == elbow:
      the_coord = elbow_coord
    else:
      if elbow_plus:
        if side == 'northeast':
          the_coord = [elbow_coord[0]-side_len,elbow_coord[1]]
        else:
          the_coord = [elbow_coord[0]+side_len,elbow_coord[1]]
      else:
        if side == 'northeast':
          the_coord = [elbow_coord[0],elbow_coord[1]+side_len]
        else:
          the_coord = [elbow_coord[0],elbow_coord[1]-side_len]
  else:
    if i % 2 == 0:  # even square
      n = gmpy.sqrt(i)/2 - 1
      the_coord = [-n, -n-1]
    else:
      n = (gmpy.sqrt(i)-1)/2 - 1
      the_coord = [1+n, 1+n]
  if j == '0':
    tooter.goto(the_coord)
    #tooter.dot(2)
print 'done'

#turtle.update()
turtle.done()
print 'done'


>
> Regards,
> Gregor


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Aug  5 17:19:20 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 23:19:20 +0200
Subject: access string data from within cython
In-Reply-To: 
References: <7dtt46F2e5osvU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
Message-ID: <7dubaoF2e96rfU2@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Philip Semanchuk schrieb:
> 
> On Aug 5, 2009, at 1:16 PM, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm trying to wrap a C-API which has a call that takes a void* and a 
>> size_t
>> as arguments.
>>
>> void foo(void *data, size_t length)
>>
>>
>> The wrapper is supposed to be called with a python (byte)string instance,
>> which might contain more than one '\0'-character.
>>
>> So how do I access the raw data of a string? I tried looking into the
>> buffer-protocol, but to be honest - that's beyond me, I don't see where
>> that is actually giving me access to the real data.
> 
> Hi Diez,
> Would ctypes.create_string_buffer() work for you?

I'm not using ctypes because I want a distributable egg with static 
linkage. ctypes can't help there afaik.

Diez


From contact at xavierho.com  Wed Aug  5 17:22:44 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 07:22:44 +1000
Subject: Subclassing Python's dict
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<2d56febf0908050732i7792bf7ft32accf1bc1157421@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908051422h2cd0e58p1afce376895d5d1e@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 5:23 AM, Joshua Kugler wrote:

> Are you referring to Python 3.0?  Python 2.6 does not have
> collections.UserDict
>
> j
>

Yes, I was.... sometimes it's hard to keep track what's not in 2.6 and in
3.1 for me, sorry. And thanks.

The ABC MutableMapping is still valid, though. I hope he gets it sorted out.


With a morning yawn,
Xavier
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From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Aug  5 17:22:56 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 23:22:56 +0200
Subject: access string data from within cython
In-Reply-To: <88384285-0147-470d-943f-14cfaa79219f@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
References: <7dtt46F2e5osvU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<88384285-0147-470d-943f-14cfaa79219f@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7dubhgF2e96rfU3@mid.uni-berlin.de>

sturlamolden schrieb:
> On 5 Aug, 19:16, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
> 
>> void foo(void *data, size_t length)
>>
>> The wrapper is supposed to be called with a python (byte)string instance,
>> which might contain more than one '\0'-character.
>>
>> So how do I access the raw data of a string?
> 
> cdef extern void foo(void *data, int length)
> cdef char *data
> cdef int length
> bytestring = ... #whatever
> 
> rawdata =  bytestring
> length =  len(bytestring)

And that gives me the *full* bytestring, not only until the first zero? 
I can't try that right now (not at work anymore), but if it's that easy, 
that would be great.

Diez


From philip at semanchuk.com  Wed Aug  5 17:30:22 2009
From: philip at semanchuk.com (Philip Semanchuk)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 17:30:22 -0400
Subject: access string data from within cython
In-Reply-To: <7dubaoF2e96rfU2@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: <7dtt46F2e5osvU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	<7dubaoF2e96rfU2@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <84411DCB-CD09-4EE1-B50E-51D005748BE1@semanchuk.com>


On Aug 5, 2009, at 5:19 PM, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

> Philip Semanchuk schrieb:
>> On Aug 5, 2009, at 1:16 PM, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I'm trying to wrap a C-API which has a call that takes a void* and  
>>> a size_t
>>> as arguments.
>>>
>>> void foo(void *data, size_t length)
>>>
>>>
>>> The wrapper is supposed to be called with a python (byte)string  
>>> instance,
>>> which might contain more than one '\0'-character.
>>>
>>> So how do I access the raw data of a string? I tried looking into  
>>> the
>>> buffer-protocol, but to be honest - that's beyond me, I don't see  
>>> where
>>> that is actually giving me access to the real data.
>> Hi Diez,
>> Would ctypes.create_string_buffer() work for you?
>
> I'm not using ctypes because I want a distributable egg with static  
> linkage. ctypes can't help there afaik.

Sorry, I read cython as CPython.




From xahlee at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 17:44:49 2009
From: xahlee at gmail.com (Xah Lee)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 14:44:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Google sitemap generator in python gone?
Message-ID: <5982ba4d-668c-460f-a666-5d7cbe697883@x25g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

google used to have a sitemap generator written in python, at:
 https://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/docs/en/sitemap-generator.html

but the url is gone. It seems the current version is moved here:
http://code.google.com/p/googlesitemapgenerator/
and is written in JavaScript.

is the old python version still available? or is there some official
doc about this change?

thanks.

  Xah
? http://xahlee.org/

?


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Wed Aug  5 17:51:12 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 14:51:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: access string data from within cython
References: <7dtt46F2e5osvU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<88384285-0147-470d-943f-14cfaa79219f@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	<7dubhgF2e96rfU3@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <71adfa33-faee-48d7-adb0-1403d8af4fd5@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On 5 Aug, 23:22, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:

> And that gives me the *full* bytestring, not only until the first zero?
> I can't try that right now (not at work anymore), but if it's that easy,
> that would be great.

It should, and if it does not it is a bug in Cython. The len()
function should work similarly in Python and Cython: It should just
call the object's __len__ method. Cython has no idea that your Python
object bytestring is a byte string, nor does Cython care.

>>> bs = '\x00'*10 # bytes string with 10 zeros
>>> len(bs)
10
>>> bs.__len__()
10



From joncle at googlemail.com  Wed Aug  5 17:55:02 2009
From: joncle at googlemail.com (Jon Clements)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 14:55:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Google sitemap generator in python gone?
References: <5982ba4d-668c-460f-a666-5d7cbe697883@x25g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <631e148d-9e26-4779-b76a-bd405f4525c8@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On 5 Aug, 22:44, Xah Lee  wrote:
> google used to have a sitemap generator written in python, at:
> ?https://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/docs/en/sitemap-generator.html
>
> but the url is gone. It seems the current version is moved here:http://code.google.com/p/googlesitemapgenerator/
> and is written in JavaScript.
>
> is the old python version still available? or is there some official
> doc about this change?
>
> thanks.
>
> ? Xah
> ?http://xahlee.org/
>
> ?

How about asking Google, and not this list?

It's always good to see a funny troll on this list though...

Now please piddle off...


From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Wed Aug  5 17:59:18 2009
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 22:59:18 +0100
Subject: Google sitemap generator in python gone?
In-Reply-To: <631e148d-9e26-4779-b76a-bd405f4525c8@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <5982ba4d-668c-460f-a666-5d7cbe697883@x25g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<631e148d-9e26-4779-b76a-bd405f4525c8@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Jon Clements wrote:

> Now please piddle off...

I am guessing west-midlands? :-)

-- 
MPH
http://blog.dcuktec.com
'If consumed, best digested with added seasoning to own preference.'


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Aug  5 18:03:11 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 23:03:11 +0100
Subject: How to combine regexps?
In-Reply-To: 
References:  
Message-ID: <4A7A019F.3070205@mrabarnett.plus.com>

kj wrote:
> In  kj  writes:
> 
> 
> 
>> One of the nice things one can do with Perl's regexp's is illustrated
>> in the following example:
> 
>> my $gly = qr/gg[ucag]/i
>> my $ala = qr/gc[ucag]/i;
>> my $val = qr/gu[ucag]/i;
>> my $leu = qr/uu[ag]|cu[ucag]/i;
>> my $ile = qr/au[uca]/i;
> 
>> my $aliphatic = qr/$gly|$ala|$val|$leu|$ile/;
> 
> 
>> In other words, one can build regular expressions by re-combining
>> other regular expressions.
> 
>> Is there a way to do this with Python's regexps?
> 
> 
> OK, answering my own question here, it looks like the only way to
> do this is to leave the "component" expressions as regular strings,
> and combine those, before compiling them into regexps.
> 
> Easy enough.
> 
A compiled regular expression has 'pattern' and 'flags' attributes, so
you can get the original parameters which were used to create it if a
function is given just the compiled regular expression. Might be useful.


From mensanator at aol.com  Wed Aug  5 18:31:17 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 15:31:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Turtle Graphics are incompatible with gmpy
References: 
	<0002b5d3$0$2970$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4a7936a4$0$1552$91cee783@newsreader03.highway.telekom.at> 
	 
	<4A79C7E2.3000406@aon.at>
	
Message-ID: 

I fixed this to produce the actual image I'm looking
for instead of that stupid black square. All I did was
use up() & dowm() in place of penup(), pendown() and
replace dot(2) with forward(1).

I'll be posting a followup report later.


import gmpy

##   (even) hi----|
##                |
##                lo (odd)
## or
##
##   (even) lo
##           |
##           |
##           ----hi (odd)
##
##
##
##

import turtle

tooter = turtle.Turtle()

#tooter.hideturtle()
tooter.speed('fast')
#turtle.update()
tooter.tracer(False)
#tooter.penup()
tooter.up()
tooter.color('black')

s = ['1','0']
while len(s[0])<10000:
    s = [''.join(s), s[0]]


origin = [0,0]
if s[0] == '0':
  tooter.goto(origin)
  #tooter.dot(1)
  tooter.down()
  tooter.forward(1)
  tooter.up()
if s[1] == '0':
  tooter.goto([1,0])
  #tooter.dot(1)
  tooter.down()
  tooter.forward(1)
  tooter.up()

print len(s[0])

for i,j in enumerate(s[0]):
  the_coord=[]
  cur_root = gmpy.sqrt(i)
  lo__root = gmpy.sqrt(i)**2
  hi__root = (gmpy.sqrt(i)+1)**2

  if hi__root%2==0:
    side = 'northeast'
  else:
    side = 'southwest'

  elbow = (hi__root - lo__root)/2 + lo__root + 1

  if i>= elbow:
    side_len = i - elbow
    elbow_plus = True
  else:
    side_len = elbow - i
    elbow_plus = False

  if side == 'northeast':
    elbow_offset = [(gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)/2 +1,-((gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)/2
+1)]
  else:
    elbow_offset = [-((gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)/2 +1),((gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)/
2 +1)]

  elbow_coord = [origin[0]+elbow_offset[0],origin[1]+elbow_offset[1]]

  if i != hi__root and i != lo__root:
    if i == elbow:
      the_coord = elbow_coord
    else:
      if elbow_plus:
        if side == 'northeast':
          the_coord = [elbow_coord[0]-side_len,elbow_coord[1]]
        else:
          the_coord = [elbow_coord[0]+side_len,elbow_coord[1]]
      else:
        if side == 'northeast':
          the_coord = [elbow_coord[0],elbow_coord[1]+side_len]
        else:
          the_coord = [elbow_coord[0],elbow_coord[1]-side_len]
  else:
    if i % 2 == 0:  # even square
      n = gmpy.sqrt(i)/2 - 1
      the_coord = [-n, -n-1]
    else:
      n = (gmpy.sqrt(i)-1)/2 - 1
      the_coord = [1+n, 1+n]
  if j == '0':
    tooter.goto(the_coord)
    #tooter.dot(2)
    tooter.down()
    tooter.forward(1)
    tooter.up()
print 'done'

#turtle.update()
turtle.done()
print 'done'


From ryan at rfk.id.au  Wed Aug  5 18:33:14 2009
From: ryan at rfk.id.au (Ryan Kelly)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 08:33:14 +1000
Subject: ANN:  extprot 0.1.1
Message-ID: <1249511594.4180.9.camel@durian>


Hi All,


Sorry if you get this twice, it seems to have gotten lost on its way
through python-announce.

I'm pleased to announce the first release of the "extprot" python
module.  Extprot implements a compact, efficient, extensible and
language-neutral object serialisation protocol.

License:      MIT
Downloads:    http://pypi.python.org/pypi/extprot/
Source code:  http://github.com/rfk/extprot/tree/master


You can think of extprot as something akin to Google's protocol buffers,
with a few extra bytes of serialisation overhead and a Python binding
that doesn't have nearly as many rough edges.  For example:

      * It's a stand-alone python module, packaged and distributed in
        the standard fashion.
      * It's friendly to dynamic package management tools like pip.
      * It works exclusively with standard Python objects. Declared a
        list field? It's a native list object.
      * You don't need to compile your protocol definitions.


More on the extprot format itself is here:

   http://eigenclass.org/R2/writings/extprot-extensible-protocols-intro

More on my motivations for this package here, if you're interested:

    http://www.rfk.id.au/blog/entry/new-python-module-extprot


Enjoy!


    Ryan

-- 
Ryan Kelly
http://www.rfk.id.au  |  This message is digitally signed. Please visit
ryan at rfk.id.au        |  http://www.rfk.id.au/ramblings/gpg/ for details

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From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Wed Aug  5 19:04:55 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 05 Aug 2009 23:04:55 GMT
Subject: trouble with complex numbers
References: <24821423.post@talk.nabble.com> 
	<24835436.post@talk.nabble.com>
	
Message-ID: <028a00b4$0$5185$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 05 Aug 2009 15:27:51 -0500, Robert Kern wrote:

> On 2009-08-05 15:16, Dr. Phillip M. Feldman wrote:
>> I am using Python 2.5, and most of the cmath functions are not yet
>> available in this version.  Thanks!
>>
>> Phillip
>>
>> P.S. In your code, that should be x+= 0J
>>
>> P.P.S. I wish that the documentation indicated anything that is new.
> 
> It does.
> 
> http://docs.python.org/library/cmath#cmath.phase
> 
> "New in version 2.6."


Furthermore, every release comes with a What's New document:

http://docs.python.org/whatsnew/index.html




-- 
Steven


From lanyjie at yahoo.com  Wed Aug  5 19:05:41 2009
From: lanyjie at yahoo.com (Yingjie Lan)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 16:05:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: using expy to extend python
Message-ID: <871540.68601.qm@web54204.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


Hi,

The expy project provides an express way to extend Python. After some careful considerations, I came up with some reasons for expy (this is not an exhaustive list):

(I). WYSIWYG. The expy project enables you to write your module in Python the way your extension would be (WYSIWYG), and meanwhile write your implementation in pure C. You specify your modules, functions, methods, classes, and even their documentations the usual way of writing your Python correspondences. Then your provide your implementation to the functions/methods by returning a multi-line string. By such an arrangement, everything falls in its right place, and your extension code becomes easy to read and maintain. Also, the generated code is very human-friendly.

(II). You only provide minimal information to indicate your intension of how your module/class would function in Python. So your extension is largely independent from the Python extension API. As your interaction with the Python extension API is reduced to minimal (you only care about the functionality and logic), it is then possible that your module written in expy can be independent of changes in the extension API.

(III). The building and setup of your project can be automatically done with the distutil tool. In the tutorial, there are ample examples on how easily this is achieved.

(IV). Very light weight. The expy tool is surprisingly light weight dispite of its powerful ability, as it is written in pure Python. There is no parser or compiler for code generation, but rather the powerful reflexion mechanism of Python is exploited in a clever way to generate human-friendly codes. Currently, generating code in C is supported, however, the implementation is well modularized and code generation in other languages such as Java and C++ should be easy.

While there are already a couple of other projects trying to simply this task with different strategies, such as Cython, Pyrex and modulator, this project is unique and charming in its own way. All you need is the WYSIWYG Python file for your module extension, then expy takes care of everything else. What follows in this documentation is on how to extend Python in C using expy-cxpy: the module expy helps define your module, while module cxpy helps generate C codes for your defined module.

For more information about expy, please visit its homepage at: http://expy.sf.net/

Cheers,

Yingjie



      


From Samnsparky at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 19:12:09 2009
From: Samnsparky at gmail.com (Sparky)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 16:12:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Two Dimensional Array + ctypes
Message-ID: <79d2b3e3-b049-4d70-a56b-6e7f3ea2fa86@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

Hello! I am trying to call this method:

long _stdcall AIBurst(long *idnum,
			 long demo,
			 long stateIOin,
			 long updateIO,
			 long ledOn,
			 long numChannels,
			 long *channels,
			 long *gains,
			 float *scanRate,
			 long disableCal,
			 long triggerIO,
			 long triggerState,
			 long numScans,
			 long timeout,
			 float (*voltages)[4],
			 long *stateIOout,
			 long *overVoltage,
			 long transferMode);

I am having some problems with that  float (*voltages)[4]. Here is
what I tried:

def aiBurst(self, channels, scanRate, numScans, idNum=None, demo=0,
stateIOin=[0, 0, 0, 0], updateIO=0, ledOn=0, gains=[0, 0, 0, 0],
disableCal=0, triggerIO=0, triggerState=0, timeout=1, transferMode=0):

        if idNum is None:
            idNum = self.id

        idNum = ctypes.c_long(idNum)

        numChannels = len(channels)

        stateIOArray = listToCArray(stateIOin, ctypes.c_long)
        channelsArray = listToCArray(channels, ctypes.c_long)
        gainsArray = listToCArray(gains, ctypes.c_long)
        scanRate = ctypes.c_float(scanRate)
        pointerArray = (ctypes.c_void_p * 4)
        voltages = pointerArray(ctypes.cast(ctypes.pointer
((ctypes.c_long * 4096)()), ctypes.c_void_p), ctypes.cast
(ctypes.pointer((ctypes.c_long * 4096)()), ctypes.c_void_p),
ctypes.cast(ctypes.pointer((ctypes.c_long * 4096)()),
ctypes.c_void_p), ctypes.cast(ctypes.pointer((ctypes.c_long * 4096)
()), ctypes.c_void_p))
        stateIOout = (ctypes.c_long * 4096)()
        overVoltage = ctypes.c_long(999)

        staticLib.AIBurst(ctypes.byref(idNum), demo, stateIOArray,
updateIO, ledOn, numChannels, ctypes.byref(channelsArray), ctypes.byref
(gainsArray), ctypes.byref(scanRate), disableCal, triggerIO,
triggerState, numScans, timeout, ctypes.byref(voltages), ctypes.byref
(stateIOout), ctypes.byref(overVoltage), transferMode)

The program runs but the values that come back in the array are not
right. However, I am not sure if I am passing the array or if I am
just not reading them well afterwards. What is the best way to put
this in and what is the best way to cast it and read it back?

Thanks,
Sam


From nad at acm.org  Wed Aug  5 19:12:10 2009
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 16:12:10 -0700
Subject: Install setup tools for 2.6
References: <373cf0740908051131gacaf77apba48fa40e929f491@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

In article 
<373cf0740908051131gacaf77apba48fa40e929f491 at mail.gmail.com>,
 Jeremy Cowles  wrote:
> Ok, I feel like this is a really stupid question, but how do you install
> setup tools for Python 2.6 under windows?
> The only format is .egg which requires setup tools to install, doesn't it?

http://pypi.python.org/pypi/setuptools#id1

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org



From mensanator at aol.com  Wed Aug  5 19:16:10 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 16:16:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Turtle Graphics are incompatible with gmpy
References: 
	<0002b5d3$0$2970$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4a7936a4$0$1552$91cee783@newsreader03.highway.telekom.at> 
	 
	<4A79C7E2.3000406@aon.at>
	
	
Message-ID: <49395cf2-c2fb-4fd9-b2f2-7f462abe8250@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 5, 5:31?pm, Mensanator  wrote:
> I fixed this to produce the actual image I'm looking
> for instead of that stupid black square. All I did was
> use up() & dowm() in place of penup(), pendown() and
> replace dot(2) with forward(1).
>
> I'll be posting a followup report later.
>

http://www.mensanator.com/mensanator/PythonTurtle/turtle.htm


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Wed Aug  5 19:29:17 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 16:29:17 -0700
Subject: Programming by Contract
Message-ID: <4A7A15CD.9090306@stoneleaf.us>

Greetings!

I have seen posts about the assert statement and PbC (or maybe it was 
DbC), and I just took a very brief look at pycontract 
(http://www.wayforward.net/pycontract/) and now I have at least one 
question:  Is this basically another way of thinking about unit testing, 
or is the idea of PbC more along the lines of *always* checking the 
input/output of functions to ensure they are correct?  (*Contstant 
vigilance!* as Prof Moody would say ;)

I know asserts can be turned off, so they obviously won't work for the 
latter case, and having seen the sample of pycontract it seems it only 
does its thing during debugging.

So is Design (Programming) by Contract a fancy way of saying "Document 
your inputs/outputs!" or is there more to it?

~Ethan~


From wolfgang at rohdewald.de  Wed Aug  5 19:48:36 2009
From: wolfgang at rohdewald.de (Wolfgang Rohdewald)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 01:48:36 +0200
Subject: using expy to extend python
In-Reply-To: <871540.68601.qm@web54204.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <871540.68601.qm@web54204.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200908060148.36696.wolfgang@rohdewald.de>

On Thursday 06 August 2009, Yingjie Lan wrote:
> For more information about expy, please visit its homepage at:
> http://expy.sf.net/

looks very interesting, bookmarked.

In your example class mate, def rename looks wrong:
if malloc fails, the previous name should probably not
be replaced by an empty string?

-- 
Wolfgang


From macmanes at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 19:54:46 2009
From: macmanes at gmail.com (PeroMHC)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 16:54:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: remove last 76 letters from string
Message-ID: 

Hi All, So here is the problem... I have a FASTA file (used for DNA
analyses) that looks like this:

...
>gnl|SRA|SRR019045.10.1 SL-XAY_956090708:2:1:0:1028.1 length=152
NCTTTTTTTATTTTTTGTATAAATGAAGTTTCACTATATCGGACGAGCGGTTCAGCAGTCATTCCGAGAC
CGATATAGTGAAACTTCATTTCTACAAAAANTACCAAACGTCGCTCGGCAGAGCGTCGTGTTGGGCAAGA
GAGTAGCACTCG
>gnl|SRA|SRR019045.11.1 SL-XAY_956090708:2:1:0:1151.1 length=152
NGGTNTGGNNNNCNCCNTNCTNCNNCNTCANCCTCCNGTCNCANNCCNCNTNNNNNCNNNNNCNNTNCTT
CTNCNNTCTCCATTCCTTCTTNATAGCCTGCTCCANCGCACGTTGAACCTTCTGCACCACGAACGCACTC
ACACCACTCATC
>gnl|SRA|SRR019045.12.1 SL-XAY_956090708:2:1:0:1197.1 length=152
NGTCGGGTCTTCGCTATCACTGGACTGCTCCCATCAGCTATAGGTCCTCCCCGCCACACCCCATGCCCAC
CGCCTATCCACGTCTGTCACAACCTCATACATCAGACAGTCACACTTACCAACATATCCAAGCACCTCAA
GCAACACATCAT
...

This snippet represents 3 individual DNA sequences. Each sequences is
identified by the line starting with >
The complete file has about 10 million individual sequences.

A simple enough problem, I want to read in this data, and cut out the
last 76 letters (nucleotides) from each individual sequence and send
them to a new txt file with a similar format.

Any help on how to do this would be appreciated.
Thanks!


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Wed Aug  5 20:23:06 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 02:23:06 +0200
Subject: remove last 76 letters from string
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Dnia 06-08-2009 o 01:54:46 PeroMHC  wrote:

> This snippet represents 3 individual DNA sequences. Each sequences is
> identified by the line starting with >
> The complete file has about 10 million individual sequences.
>
> A simple enough problem, I want to read in this data, and cut out the
> last 76 letters (nucleotides) from each individual sequence and send
> them to a new txt file with a similar format.

If I understand correctly you want sth like this:


with open(path_to_the_input_file) as fasta:
     with open(path_to_the_input_file) as nucleotides:
	for seq in fasta:
             print >>nucleotides, '> foo bar length=76'
             print >>nucleotides, seq[-76]


Cheers,
*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Wed Aug  5 20:24:22 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 02:24:22 +0200
Subject: remove last 76 letters from string [sorry, errata]
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Dnia 06-08-2009 o 01:54:46 PeroMHC  wrote:

> This snippet represents 3 individual DNA sequences. Each sequences is
> identified by the line starting with >
> The complete file has about 10 million individual sequences.
>
> A simple enough problem, I want to read in this data, and cut out the
> last 76 letters (nucleotides) from each individual sequence and send
> them to a new txt file with a similar format.

If I understand correctly you want sth like this:


with open(path_to_the_input_file) as fasta:
       with open(path_to_the_output_file) as nucleotides:
	for seq in fasta:
               print >>nucleotides, '> foo bar length=76'
               print >>nucleotides, seq[-76]


Cheers,
*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Aug  5 20:26:22 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 01:26:22 +0100
Subject: String to valid Python identifier
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A7A232E.1060402@mrabarnett.plus.com>

?????? ??????????? wrote:
> Is there any easy function in the stdlib to convert any random string in 
> a valid Python identifier .. possibly by replacing non-valid characters 
> with _ ?
> 
> Python 2.x only, so no need to do Unicode.
> 
Lookup the 'maketrans' function in the 'string' module and the
'translate' method of the 'str' class.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Aug  5 20:32:22 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 01:32:22 +0100
Subject: remove last 76 letters from string
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A7A2496.4080808@mrabarnett.plus.com>

PeroMHC wrote:
> Hi All, So here is the problem... I have a FASTA file (used for DNA
> analyses) that looks like this:
> 
> ...
>> gnl|SRA|SRR019045.10.1 SL-XAY_956090708:2:1:0:1028.1 length=152
> NCTTTTTTTATTTTTTGTATAAATGAAGTTTCACTATATCGGACGAGCGGTTCAGCAGTCATTCCGAGAC
> CGATATAGTGAAACTTCATTTCTACAAAAANTACCAAACGTCGCTCGGCAGAGCGTCGTGTTGGGCAAGA
> GAGTAGCACTCG
>> gnl|SRA|SRR019045.11.1 SL-XAY_956090708:2:1:0:1151.1 length=152
> NGGTNTGGNNNNCNCCNTNCTNCNNCNTCANCCTCCNGTCNCANNCCNCNTNNNNNCNNNNNCNNTNCTT
> CTNCNNTCTCCATTCCTTCTTNATAGCCTGCTCCANCGCACGTTGAACCTTCTGCACCACGAACGCACTC
> ACACCACTCATC
>> gnl|SRA|SRR019045.12.1 SL-XAY_956090708:2:1:0:1197.1 length=152
> NGTCGGGTCTTCGCTATCACTGGACTGCTCCCATCAGCTATAGGTCCTCCCCGCCACACCCCATGCCCAC
> CGCCTATCCACGTCTGTCACAACCTCATACATCAGACAGTCACACTTACCAACATATCCAAGCACCTCAA
> GCAACACATCAT
> ...
> 
> This snippet represents 3 individual DNA sequences. Each sequences is
> identified by the line starting with >
> The complete file has about 10 million individual sequences.
> 
> A simple enough problem, I want to read in this data, and cut out the
> last 76 letters (nucleotides) from each individual sequence and send
> them to a new txt file with a similar format.
> 
> Any help on how to do this would be appreciated.
> Thanks!

If the input file is large then you can reduce the amount of memory
needed by reading the input file a line at a time by iterating over the
file object:

     input_file = open(input_path)
     for line in input_file:
         ...
     input_file.close()

Each line will end with '\n', so use the 'rstrip' method to remove it,
and then slice the last 76 characters:

     last_part = line.rstrip()[-76 : ]


From darkneter at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 20:39:52 2009
From: darkneter at gmail.com (NighterNet)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 17:39:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: sqlite3 gui
Message-ID: <3d2c4f7a-9d9b-4aff-9de1-141ecf4327de@x6g2000prc.googlegroups.com>

This took a while to get a gui working. I am new at this coding.

This work with sqlite3 Python Version: 3.1.0. The older version
doesn't work.

#!/usr/local/bin/python
'''
    This is for basic database access to view the information.
Python version: 3.1.0

Features:
-view database.
-run script
-update row
-delete row
-insert row

To do list:
-delete table
-create table
-export database
-import database
-primary id need to able to insert to the table
-delete table row
-refresh data

Note:
-It doesn't remove the GUI
-It bit buggy.
-Python version: 3.0.1 -Doesn't support the gui

execute script without '"' ->  INSERT INTO member (user, password)
VALUES( "admin", "admin")
'''

from tkinter import *
from tkinter import ttk
from tkinter import tix
import sqlite3 as sqlite
import re

DATABASE = 'nameofdatabasefile.db'
title = "Sqlite3 Database";

db = sqlite.connect(DATABASE);
cur = db.cursor();

print("#==============================#")
print("# Python Version: 3.1.0        #")
print("# sqlite3                      #")
print("#==============================#")

class Application(Frame):
    #label_serverstatus = Label()
    table = []
    tablename = ''
    tablerowid = ''
    tablecolid = '0'
    tablerowname = ''
    tablevarinput = []
    tablevartext = []
    tableentrywidgetrow = []
    tablelabelwidgetrow = []

    def __init__(self, master=None):
        Frame.__init__(self, master)
        self.master.grid_columnconfigure(0, weight=1)
        self.master.grid_rowconfigure(0, weight=1)
        self.master.title(title)
        self.listtable()#Make a list table
        self.createWidgets()
        self.master.geometry("800x600")
        self.pack()
    def listtable(self):
        self.table = []
        cur.execute("select * from sqlite_master WHERE type='table'");
        for t in cur:
            #print (t[1])
            self.table.append(t[1])

    #Create Widgets
    def createWidgets(self):
        #Schema
        self.Schemaframe = ttk.Labelframe(self, text='Schema',
width=600, height=100)
        self.Schemaframe.grid(column=1, row=1, sticky=W)
        self.text_database = Label(self.Schemaframe)
        self.text_database["text"] = "Schema Database:" + DATABASE
        self.text_database.grid(column=1, row=1, sticky=W)

        #Table
        self.tableframe = ttk.Labelframe(self, text='Schema Table',
width=600, height=100)
        self.tableframe.grid(column=1, row=2, sticky=W)
        self.text_table = Label(self.tableframe)
        self.text_table["text"] = "table:"
        self.text_table.grid(column=1, row=1, sticky=W)

        self.combobox = ttk.Combobox(self.tableframe)
        self.combobox.grid(column=2, row=1, sticky=W)
        self.combobox["values"] = self.table
        self.combobox.bind('<>', self.table_click)
        self.combobox.current(1)

        self.button_deletetable = Button(self.tableframe)
        self.button_deletetable["text"] = "Delete Table"
        self.button_deletetable.grid(column=3, row=1, sticky=W)

        self.button_createtable = Button(self.tableframe)
        self.button_createtable["text"] = "Create Table"
        self.button_createtable.grid(column=4, row=1, sticky=W)

        #Table
        self.scriptframe = ttk.Labelframe(self, text='Schema Script',
width=600, height=100)
        self.scriptframe.grid(column=1, row=3, sticky=W)

        self.button_script = Button(self.scriptframe)
        self.button_script["text"] = "Exeute script"
        self.button_script["command"] = self.executescript
        self.button_script.grid(column=1, row=1, sticky=W)

        self.button_commit = Button(self.scriptframe)
        self.button_commit["text"] = "Commit"
        self.button_commit["command"] = self.commit_save
        self.button_commit.grid(column=2, row=1, sticky=W)

        #TEXT BOX
        self.textbox = Text(self.scriptframe, width=40, height=10)
        self.textbox.grid(column=1, row=2, sticky=W,columnspan=6)

        #TABLE FRAME LIST
        self.tablerowframe = ttk.Labelframe(self, text='Table Rows',
width=600, height=100)
        self.tablerowframe.grid(column=2, row=1, sticky=W,rowspan=3)

        #TABLE ROW LIST
        self.listbox = Listbox(self.tablerowframe, exportselection=0,
background="white")
        self.listbox.bind("<>",self.listselect_click)
        self.listbox.grid(column=1, row=1, sticky=W)

        #vbar
        self.vbar = Scrollbar(self.tablerowframe, name="vbar")
        self.vbar.grid(column=1, row=1, sticky=E)
        self.vbar.configure(orient=VERTICAL,
command=self.listbox.yview)
        self.listbox.configure(yscrollcommand=self.vbar.set)

        self.button_createrow = Button(self.tablerowframe)
        self.button_createrow["text"] = "Create Table Row"
        self.button_createrow["command"] = self.commit_save
        self.button_createrow.grid(column=1, row=2, sticky=W)

        #TABLE FRAME ROW EDIT
        self.tablerowframe = ttk.Labelframe(self, text='Table Rows
EDIT', width=256, height=480)
        self.tablerowframe.grid(column=1, row=4, sticky=W)

    #SELECT TABLE FROM COMBOBOX
    def table_click(self,event):
        #print("click")
        self.tablename = str(self.combobox.selection_get())
        print(self.tablename)
        self.tableselected(self.tablename);
        return "break"

    #SHOW TABLE ROWS IN THE LIST BOX
    def tableselected(self,name):
        #print("TABLE SELECT ->" + str(name))
        cur.execute("select * from " + name);
        self.listbox.delete(0, "end")
        for t in cur:
            #print (t)
            #print (t[1])#table
            #spreadsheet.append(t[1])
            self.listbox.insert("end", str(t[0]))
        #self.listbox["listvariable"] = spreadsheet

    #CLICK TABLE ROW SELECTED ID OR ROW NAME
    def listselect_click(self,event):
        rowid = self.listbox.curselection()
        rowid = self.listbox.index(rowid)
        #print(self.listbox.get(rowid))
        self.tablerowid = rowid
        self.tablerowname = self.listbox.get(rowid)
        self.selecttablerow()
        return "break"

    #TABLE ROW INFORMATION
    def selecttablerow(self):
        #print ("TABLE ROW ->")
        self.tablevartext = []
        self.tablevarinput = []

        cur.execute("select * from sqlite_master WHERE type='table'");
        for t in cur:
            if self.tablename == t[1]:
                #print (t)
                tablestr = t[4].replace("CREATE TABLE "
+self.tablename + " ",'')
                tablestr = tablestr.replace("(","")
                tablestr = tablestr.replace(")","")
                comumndata = tablestr.split(',')

                for col in comumndata:
                    col = col.strip()
                    m = re.match(r"(^(\w+))",col)
                    #print (m.group(0))#column name of the table
current selected.
                    self.tablevartext.append(m.group(0))
                break

        query = str('SELECT * FROM ' + self.tablename + " WHERE id=\'"
+ self.tablerowname + "\'")
        #print(query)
        cur.execute(query);
        #table row out put
        for t in cur:
            #print (t)
            for vardata in t:
                #print(vardata)
                self.tablevarinput.append(vardata)
        self.deletetablerowinput
        self.createtablerowinput()

    def createtablerowinput(self):
        self.deletetablerowinput()
        rowcount = 0
        #self.button_destroy = Button(self.tablerowframe)
        #self.button_destroy["text"] = "delete rows"
        #self.button_destroy["command"] = self.deletetablerowinput
        #self.button_destroy.grid(column=1, row=1, sticky=W)

        self.button_deleterowtable = Button(self.tablerowframe)
        self.button_deleterowtable["text"] = "Delete Table Row"
        self.button_deleterowtable["command"] = self.deletetablerow
        self.button_deleterowtable.grid(column=1, row=1, sticky=W)

        self.button_updatetablerow = Button(self.tablerowframe)
        self.button_updatetablerow["text"] = "Update Table Row"
        self.button_updatetablerow["command"] = self.updatetablerow
        self.button_updatetablerow.grid(column=2, row=1, sticky=W)

        self.button_inserttablerow = Button(self.tablerowframe)
        self.button_inserttablerow["text"] = "Insert Table Row"
        self.button_inserttablerow["command"] = self.inserttablerow
        self.button_inserttablerow.grid(column=3, row=1, sticky=W)

        for columnname in self.tablevartext:
            #print(columnname)
            self.entry_tablevarrow = Entry(self.tablerowframe,
width=30, textvariable=columnname)
            self.entry_tablevarrow.delete(0,"end")
            self.entry_tablevarrow.insert(0,str(self.tablevarinput
[rowcount]))
            self.entry_tablevarrow.grid(column=2, row=rowcount+2,
sticky=W)
            self.tableentrywidgetrow.append(self.entry_tablevarrow)

            self.label_var = Label(self.tablerowframe, width=16)
            self.label_var['text'] = columnname
            self.label_var.grid(column=1, row=rowcount+2, sticky=W)
            self.tablelabelwidgetrow.append(self.label_var)
            #print(rowcount)
            rowcount += 1
    def updatetablerow(self):
        count = 0;
        #mysql_query("UPDATE  $db_table SET imageid='{$hashname}'
WHERE idhash='{$IDIMAGE}'")
        query = "UPDATE " + self.tablename
        set = " SET "
        where = "WHERE"
        for x in self.tableentrywidgetrow:
            if count == 0:
                where = where + " " + x["textvariable"] + "=\'" + x.get
() + "\' "
            else:
                if count == len(self.tableentrywidgetrow)-1:
                    set = set + "" + x["textvariable"] + "=\'" + x.get
() + "\' "
                else:
                    set = set + "" + x["textvariable"] + "=\'" + x.get
() + "\', "

            print ( x["textvariable"] + "->" +  x.get())
            count += 1
        print (query + set + where)
        querystring = query + set + where
        self.applydata(querystring)
        #print (len(self.tableentrywidgetrow))
    def deletetablerow(self):
        count = 0;
        query = "DELETE FROM " + self.tablename + " WHERE "
        delete = ""
        for x in self.tableentrywidgetrow:
            if count == len(self.tableentrywidgetrow)-1:
                delete = delete + "" + x["textvariable"] + "=\'" +
x.get() + "\' "
            else:
                delete = delete + "" + x["textvariable"] + "=\'" +
x.get() + "\' AND "
            count += 1
        print (query + delete)
        querystring = query + delete
        self.applydata(querystring)
        #print (len(self.tableentrywidgetrow))
    def inserttablerow(self):
        #cur.execute('INSERT INTO member (user, password) VALUES
( "admin", "admin")')
        count = 0;
        query = "INSERT INTO " + self.tablename + "("
        values = ""
        insert = ""
        #be sure it not the primary key else it will give error
        for x in self.tableentrywidgetrow:
            if count == len(self.tableentrywidgetrow)-1:
                values = values + x["textvariable"] + ''
                insert = insert + '\"' + x.get() + '\"'
            else:
                if count == 0:
                    print ("PRIMARY KEY")
                else:
                    values = values + x["textvariable"] + ','
                    insert = insert + '\"' + x.get() + '\",'

            count += 1

        querystring = query + values + ") VALUES(" + insert + ")"
        print (querystring)
        self.applydata(querystring)
        #print (len(self.tableentrywidgetrow))

    def deletetablerowinput(self):
        for x in self.tableentrywidgetrow:
            x.destroy()
        self.tableentrywidgetrow = []
        for y in self.tablelabelwidgetrow:
            x.destroy()
        self.tablelabelwidgetrow = []

    #SCRIPTS ++++++
    def executescript(self):
        print("Execute Script...")
        scripttext = self.textbox.get('1.0', 'end')
        self.applydata(scripttext)
        print(scripttext)
    #COMMIT +++++++
    def commit_save(self):
        print("Sqlite3 Commit")
        db.commit()
    def applydata(self,querystr):
        print("Sqlite3 Commit")
        db = sqlite.connect(DATABASE);
        cur = db.cursor()
        cur.execute(querystr)
        db.commit()

root = Tk()
app = Application(master=root)
app.mainloop()
root.destroy()

Not sure what you guys think about this. Still working on it. I can't
hard code this well. Still learning it. >.<


From lanyjie at yahoo.com  Wed Aug  5 20:40:18 2009
From: lanyjie at yahoo.com (Yingjie Lan)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 17:40:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: using expy to extend python
In-Reply-To: <200908060148.36696.wolfgang@rohdewald.de>
Message-ID: <870509.8482.qm@web54208.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


> From: Wolfgang Rohdewald 
> Subject: Re: using expy to extend python
> To: python-list at python.org
> Date: Thursday, August 6, 2009, 3:48 AM
> On Thursday 06 August 2009, Yingjie
> Lan wrote:
> > For more information about expy, please visit its
> homepage at:
> > http://expy.sf.net/
> 
> looks very interesting, bookmarked.
> 

Glad to hear that! Thanks.

> In your example class mate, def rename looks wrong:
> if malloc fails, the previous name should probably not
> be replaced by an empty string?
> 

Thanks for pointing that out. Probably should throw an exception if malloc fails. 

Yingjie


      


From gregor.lingl at aon.at  Wed Aug  5 20:49:44 2009
From: gregor.lingl at aon.at (Gregor Lingl)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 02:49:44 +0200
Subject: Turtle Graphics are incompatible with gmpy
In-Reply-To: <49395cf2-c2fb-4fd9-b2f2-7f462abe8250@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<0002b5d3$0$2970$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4a7936a4$0$1552$91cee783@newsreader03.highway.telekom.at>
	
	<4A79C7E2.3000406@aon.at>
	
	
	<49395cf2-c2fb-4fd9-b2f2-7f462abe8250@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a7a28b3$0$2303$91cee783@newsreader01.highway.telekom.at>

Mensanator schrieb:
> On Aug 5, 5:31 pm, Mensanator  wrote:
>> I fixed this to produce the actual image I'm looking
>> for instead of that stupid black square. All I did was
>> use up() & dowm() in place of penup(), pendown() and
>> replace dot(2) with forward(1).
>>
>> I'll be posting a followup report later.
>>
> 
> http://www.mensanator.com/mensanator/PythonTurtle/turtle.htm

Hi Mansanator,

Thanks for that thorough investigations.
I hope I'll soon find time to study it in detail.

I've just one idea, but I don't know if you might
be intersted in it or if it's rewarding at all:

What would be the results when using the old turtle
module with Python 3.1 (it will certainly not run
out of the box, but perhaps 2to3 might do it?)

That would clarify the question if there is some
impact of new division or some changes in Tkinter.

Best regards,
Gregor


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Wed Aug  5 20:54:07 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 21:54:07 -0300
Subject: Datetime with float seconds
References: 
Message-ID: 

En Wed, 05 Aug 2009 09:50:04 -0300, kpal 
escribi?:

> The standard datetime has 1 microsecond granularity.

Note that this is the finest granularity a datetime object can store, NOT
the precision of datetime.now() by example.

> My application
> needs finer time resolution, preferably float seconds.

"float seconds" doesn't mean much. time.time returns float seconds, but
its precision is around 15ms on Windows.

> Is there an
> alternative to the out-of-the-box datetime? Timezone support is not
> essential.

On Windows, use time.clock(), which internally uses
QueryPerformanceCounter. The resolution depends on your hardware, but it's
typically better than 1 microsecond. If you want to know the actual value:

py> from ctypes import *
py> kernel32=windll.kernel32
py> QueryPerformanceCounter=kernel32.QueryPerformanceCounter
py> QueryPerformanceFrequency=kernel32.QueryPerformanceFrequency
py> plonglong = POINTER(c_longlong)
py> QueryPerformanceFrequency.argtypes = [plonglong]
py> freq = c_longlong()
py> QueryPerformanceFrequency(byref(freq))
1
py> freq
c_longlong(3579545L)

That is, on my system the resolution is 1/3579545s, or better than 300ns

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Wed Aug  5 20:54:16 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 21:54:16 -0300
Subject: Install setup tools for 2.6
References: <373cf0740908051131gacaf77apba48fa40e929f491@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

En Wed, 05 Aug 2009 15:31:38 -0300, Jeremy Cowles
 escribi?:

> Ok, I feel like this is a really stupid question, but how do you install
> setup tools for Python 2.6 under windows?
> The only format is .egg which requires setup tools to install, doesn't  
> it?

I have no idea, and I try to stay as far away from setuptools/ez_setup as
I can. I think they solve some kind of problems for some kind of people
(else the tool would be defunct by now), but haven't worked for me.
Perhaps you don't need setuptools either?

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From mensanator at aol.com  Wed Aug  5 21:31:00 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 18:31:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Turtle Graphics are incompatible with gmpy
References: 
	<0002b5d3$0$2970$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4a7936a4$0$1552$91cee783@newsreader03.highway.telekom.at> 
	 
	<4A79C7E2.3000406@aon.at>
	
	 
	<49395cf2-c2fb-4fd9-b2f2-7f462abe8250@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> 
	<4a7a28b3$0$2303$91cee783@newsreader01.highway.telekom.at>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 5, 7:49?pm, Gregor Lingl  wrote:
> Mensanator schrieb:
>
> > On Aug 5, 5:31 pm, Mensanator  wrote:
> >> I fixed this to produce the actual image I'm looking
> >> for instead of that stupid black square. All I did was
> >> use up() & dowm() in place of penup(), pendown() and
> >> replace dot(2) with forward(1).
>
> >> I'll be posting a followup report later.
>
> >http://www.mensanator.com/mensanator/PythonTurtle/turtle.htm
>
> Hi Mansanator,
>
> Thanks for that thorough investigations.
> I hope I'll soon find time to study it in detail.
>
> I've just one idea, but I don't know if you might
> be intersted in it or if it's rewarding at all:

Sure, not tonight, of course, but I can give it try.

>
> What would be the results when using the old turtle
> module with Python 3.1 (it will certainly not run
> out of the box, but perhaps 2to3 might do it?)

I would just need to copy turtle.py to 3.1 Lib (renamed,
of course)?

>
> That would clarify the question if there is some
> impact of new division or some changes in Tkinter.

I had a quick glance through the code. Not too many divisions
and most of them seemd to already be forcing float division
by constructs such as mutiplying by 1.0 (which I assume isn't
strictly neccessary as long as / and // are used correctly.

It seemed a lot of floats were used in the 2.5 code as I saw
such stuff as int(difference), so I really don't know why
.mpz would be a problem since they are integers also and a
Python int ought to be the same thing when coerced to a float
(at least in the range used by Turtle graphics.

>
> Best regards,
> Gregor



From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Wed Aug  5 21:31:56 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 01:31:56 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
References: 
	<1249487636.7120.798.camel@arrakis>
Message-ID: 

Jason Tackaberry  urandom.ca> writes:
> On Wed, 2009-08-05 at 16:43 +0200, Michael Str?der wrote:
> > These both expressions are equivalent but which is faster or should be used
> > for any reason?
> > u = unicode(s,'utf-8')
> > u = s.decode('utf-8') # looks nicer
> 
> It is sometimes non-obvious which constructs are faster than others in
> Python.  I also regularly have these questions, but it's pretty easy to
> run quick (albeit naive) benchmarks to see.
> 
> The first thing to try is to have a look at the bytecode for each:
[snip] 
> The presence of LOAD_ATTR in the first form hints that this is probably
> going to be slower.   Next, actually try it:
> 
>         >>> import timeit
>         >>> timeit.timeit('"foobarbaz".decode("utf-8")')
>         1.698289155960083
>         >>> timeit.timeit('unicode("foobarbaz", "utf-8")')
>         0.53305888175964355
> 
> So indeed, uncode(s, 'utf-8') is faster by a fair margin.

Faster by an enormous margin; attributing this to the cost of attribute lookup
seems implausible.

Suggested further avenues of investigation:

(1) Try the timing again with "cp1252" and "utf8" and "utf_8"

(2) grep "utf-8" /Objects/unicodeobject.c

HTH,
John



From digitalhillbilly at hotmail.com  Wed Aug  5 21:40:57 2009
From: digitalhillbilly at hotmail.com (DH)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 18:40:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: access read / write violation with ctypes
Message-ID: 

Hi all,

I'm quite new to cytpes and am having some troubles I was hoping I
could get a little help with. Before I get into the details this is
what I'm trying to accomplish - I would like to read a dng with python
pass it through either libraw.dll or dcraw.dll (notes on dcraw.dll
version at the end) for initial processing then to MagickWand for some
light enhancement and final jpeg output. After I get these working I
will see how I can add LittleCMS into the fray. I'm not doing
something correctly but don't know what. I've read a lot of documents
over the past couple days and though I've learned quite a lot I just
can't get past this access violation error.

I very grateful for anything that can be offered.

dh

...

I am currently working out MagickWand and dcraw separately but am
having similar troubles with both resulting in either 'Windows Error:
exception: access violation reading 0x00000000' or alternatively
'Windows Error: ... writing'

1 - MagickWand (read violation):

I'm using popen to capture dcraw stdout and want to pass it to
magickwand. If I instead write the dcraw output to a file then read it
with magickwand I get the same error. But if I comment out the dcraw
protion and read the dcraw output file from the previous attempt,
MagickWand opens the file fine and I can manipulate it to my hearts
content. The basics:

proc = subprocess.Popen("dcraw -c -4 -T image.dng", shell=True,
close_fds=False, stdout=subprocess.PIPE).communicate()[0]

magickWandLib = 'C:\\Program Files (x86)\\ImageMagick-6.5.3-Q16\
\CORE_RL_wand_.dll'
Magick = cdll.LoadLibrary(magickWandLib)

Magick.MagickWandGenesis()
wand = Magick.NewMagickWand()

Magick.MagickReadImageFile(proc)
-> access violation reading

2 - DCRaw (write violation):

I've been bouncing between libraw.dll and dcraw.dll. The dcraw version
I'm using is found at
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=es&tl=en&u=http://www.ojodigital.com/foro/perfectraw-perfectblend/206898-perfectraw-0-5-a.html
. Libraw is limited in the sence that it is mainly suited to loading
and unpacking raw images. Actual processing is done only in emulation
mode which I have not yet been able to access throught the library.
PerfectRaw uses a tweaked and librarised version of dcraw with thier
GUI + some enhanced functions. I'm only interesed in the dll though

2.1 - libraw.dll

I won't go into great detail as I can get it to work but only open,
unpack and write out a tiff or ppm. No process settings

2.2 - dcraw.dll

I can load the library but cannot initialise an instance. Each attempt
in a variety or methods always returns an 'access violation writing
0x00000000'. The parameters I use to initialise are taken from a test
program provided by the authors.

test app:
	int w,h;
	printf("Resultado de leer el RAW: %i\n",DCRAW_Init("c:\\test\
\IMG_4118.CR2",&w,&h)

python:
	dcraw_lib = 'C:\\programs\\PerfectRaw\\dcraw.dll'
	dcraw = ctypes.cdll.LoadLibrary(dcraw_lib)

	img = 'C:\\programs\\PerfectRaw\\image.dng'
	dcraw.DCRAW_Init(img,4000,3000) # canon G9 converted to dng
	-> access violation writing



From gforgx at lavabit.com  Wed Aug  5 21:51:52 2009
From: gforgx at lavabit.com (Sergey Simonenko)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 19:51:52 -0600
Subject: Subclassing Python's dict
Message-ID: 

Hi,

I subclass builtin 'dict' in my application and experience some problems  
with it.

The whole issue is that I should redefine 'setdefault' and 'update'  
methods after redefining '__setitem__' or/and '__delitem__',
otherwise 'update' and 'setdefault' ignore redefined '__setitem__' and use  
builtin dict's one so dict looks kinda like a black box.

Another guy have reported me that he experiences similar problems with  
subclassing builtin 'list'.

Kind regards, Sergey.

-- 
???????? ? ???????? ??????? ???????? Opera: http://www.opera.com/mail/



From cocobear.cn at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 22:17:53 2009
From: cocobear.cn at gmail.com (cocobear)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 19:17:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: merge two png pic
References: 
	 
	
	<006617e3-6630-4f04-bff1-99c58dbb6cb5@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<4a77e249$0$2449$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<72d7aad1-1fb7-4b32-a87f-636505b0faa2@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
	<4a793852$0$19598$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <69579cfc-9151-43df-a5ef-a6b05f1bd718@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 5, 3:44?pm, News123  wrote:
> You didn't really tell us why you need one big file, which contains more
> pixel, than you can probably store in RAM
>

In fact I do not need such a big image.
I just want to know the solution.


> Is it for printing?
> Not knwoing your goal makes it difficult to suggest solutions.
>
> Can't you use other image formats like raw RGB or
> What other image formats are supported?
> tiff? Raw? PPM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portable_pixmap)?
>

I want to view image use Windows Pic View.

I don't familiar with PPM? photoshop don't support PPM, does PIL
support this format?


> concatenating raw/ppm files with the same width would be really trivial.
>
> so you could use python to create horizontal raw/ppm stripes.
>
> then you could concatenate them without having to have the whole image
> in RAM.
>
> Perhaps there's even converters from ppm to png, that don't need the
> whole image in RAM.
>
>
>
> cocobear wrote:
> > On Aug 4, 3:24 pm, News123  wrote:
> >> Hi,
>
> >> cocobear wrote:
> >>>>>>> Map = Image.new("RGB", (x,y))
> >>>>>>> Map.paste(im, box)
> >>>>>>> Map.paste(im1,box)
> >>>>>>> Map = Map.convert("L", optimize=True, palette=Image.ADAPTIVE)
> >>>>>>> But if thetwopngpicis too big , or if I have tomergemorepic
> >>>>>>> together, I will get MemoryError:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Image.new("RGB",(44544,38656))
> >>>> What do you want to do with such a big image? You will run into the same
> >>>> limitation when you are trying to display it.
> >>> I want to download a map from google map with high precision
> >> For me it sounds strange to handle such big files.
>
> >> Is the map you download from Google really that big?
> >> Mostly Google maps uses normally tiles of sizes 256x256 pixel, wich you
> >> have to compose to get the ?big image.
>
> > The map I downloaded from Google is small(256x256). These small maps
> > will compose a big image.
>
> >> If your problem is to combine tiles with different palettes, then you
> >> should pobably look at a way to ?'unify' the palette of all tiles befor
> >> combining them.
>
> > I think it is impossible to 'unify' all this tiles.
>
> >> Being no expert of PIL I don't know whether this is easily possible though?
>
> >> bye
>
> >> N



From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 23:19:37 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 20:19:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Subclassing Python's dict
References: 
	<2d56febf0908050732i7792bf7ft32accf1bc1157421@mail.gmail.com> 
	
Message-ID: 

Xavier Ho wrote:
> You should subclass collections.UserDict, and not the default dict class.
> Refer to the collections module.

Xavier, why do you think that is the correct approach? The docs say
"The need for this class has been largely supplanted by the ability to
subclass directly from dict (a feature that became available starting
with Python version 2.2)."

If you mean that Sergey should subclass _in this instance_ could you
please explain why? (Sorry if you already have, I never saw your
original post...)




From rt8396 at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 23:35:43 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 20:35:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	
	
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	
Message-ID: <93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 4, 12:55?am, David Lyon  wrote:
> It isn't totally about the writers...
> Peoples egos are also at stake - it seems.
> If "Fred X wrote Doc Y".. they don't want their name taken off.. So
> they generally speaking don't want the docs changed.
> If you talk too much about docs.. you can be told you're OT..
> even in a thread about docs...

This is the most honest post within this thread. Yes i believe --
although it does not make me happy-- that many within this community
are hostile, vulgar, and viscous towards any notion of change if it
comes from outside the "insiders" group (and even sometimes from the
inside). Which is very sad.

Yes sometimes people are just trolling, but this tread has nothing to
do with trolling. kj has a legitimate complaint. Do i believe the docs
are a complete waste of bytes, No! Many people have invested tons of
hard work into them (and i thank them for their hard work). But i do
believe --like all things in this word-- perfection is always just out
of hands reach, we must constantly seek perfection because we can
never attain it. Like any group effort, eventually it will adopt the
idioms of self indulgence. Python dev needs the input of those who are
not experts in the language --especially in the realm of docs.

It is so easy to forget the struggles we face when learning something
new. The accessibility and appeal of Python to new users is in the
best interest of this community. If you don't believe that, you are
pissing on all the years of hard work that has been put in here. You
might as well just tell Guido to "close up shop"

I have posted this once before but i will post it again. Please read
Christopher's words carefully because they apply to this community in
a big way...Don't fall into the trap of narcissism.

Christopher Lasch referring to the pitfalls of Narcissistic societies:

"""In such a society of constant competition, there can be no allies,
and little transparency. The threats to
acquisitions of social symbols are so numerous, varied and frequently
incomprehensible, that defensiveness, as well as competitiveness,
becomes a way of life. Any real sense of community is undermined -- or
even destroyed -- to be replaced by virtual equivalents that strive,
unsuccessfully, to synthesize a sense of community."""

While I agree that some narcissism is vital to an individuals ego in
competitive atmospheres, I do not believe the Python community
warrants this need.


From rays at blue-cove.com  Thu Aug  6 00:21:13 2009
From: rays at blue-cove.com (RayS)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 21:21:13 -0700
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
In-Reply-To: <93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro
	ups.com>
References: 
	
	
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

From davea at ieee.org  Thu Aug  6 00:51:19 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 00:51:19 -0400
Subject: Error on Attaching to the process while debugging
In-Reply-To: <21dbc649-2f82-4e4c-9777-c8a58c25a9e0@r2g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <21dbc649-2f82-4e4c-9777-c8a58c25a9e0@r2g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A7A6147.5030901@ieee.org>


MalC0de wrote:
> Hello there, I'm writting a debugger,
> the problem is there no good interpretation ...
>
> here's the codes:
>
> my_debugger.py :
>
> #!/usr/bin/env python
> from ctypes import *
> from my_debugger_defines import *
> kernel32 = windll.kernel32
> class debugger():
>     def __init__(self):
> 	  self.h_process = None
> 	  self.pid = None
> 	  self.debugger_active = False
>           pass
>     def load(self,path_to_exe):
>         creation_flags = DEBUG_PROCESS
>         startupinfo = STARTUPINFO()
>         process_information = PROCESSINFORMATION()
>         startupinfo.dwFlags = 0x1
>         startupinfo.wShowWindow = 0x0
>         startupinfo.cb = sizeof(startupinfo)
>         if kernel32.CreateProcessA(path_to_exe,
>                                     None,
>                                     None,
>                                     None,
>                                     None,
>                                     creation_flags,
>                                     None,
>                                     None,
>                                     byref(startupinfo),
>                                     byref(process_information)):
>                   print "[*]we have sucessfully launched the process"
>                   print "[*]PID %d" % process_information.dwProcessId
>                   self.h_process = self.open_process
> (process_information.dwProcessId)
>         else:
>             print"[*]Error 0x%08x." % kernel32.GetLastError()
>
> def Open_process(self,pid):
>     h_process = kernel32.OpenProcess(PROCESS_ALL_ACCESS,pid,False)
>     return h_process
> def attach(self,pid):
>         self.h_process = self.open_process(pid)
>         # We attempt to attach to the process
>         # if this fails we exit the call
>         if kernel32.DebugActiveProcess(pid):
>             self.debugger_active = True
>             self.pid             = int(pid)
>
>         else:
>             print "[*] Unable to attach to the process."
>
> def run(self):
>     while self.debugger_active == True:
>         self.get_debug_event()
> def get_debug_event(self):
>     debug_event = DEBUG_EVENT()
>     continue_status = DBG_CONTINUE
>     if kernel32.WaitForDebugEvent(byref(debug_event),INFINITE):
>         raw_input("Press a key to continue ...")
>     self.debugger_active = False
>     kernel32.ContinueDebugEvent
> (debug_event.dwProdcessid,debug_event.dwThreadId,continue_status)
>     def detach(self):
>         if kernel32.DeugActiveProcessStop(self.pid):
>             print "[*]Finished debugging. exiting ..."
>             return True
>         else:
>             print "there was an error"
>             return false
>
> it's already have a method named : Attach ...
> 
>   
Indentation is critical.  You have defined functions ( Open_process() 
attach(), run(), etc. ) that have formal parameters named self, but are 
indented outside of the class definition.  Indentation trumps, so these 
are not attributes of the class.  They're functions, not methods.

It looks like you have other indentation problems, but I'll let you run 
with this much.

Incidentally, following naming conventions could also help here.  
debugger is a class, but it's not capitalized.  Open_process() is 
intended to be a method, but it is capitalized.  And your comments refer 
to attach() as Attach...  Another convention you're breaking is using    
"from ctypes import * "   That's a dangerous way to do imports, as it 
mixes those names with the ones in this module.  I prefer a simple 
import, and use the module name as a prefix when you reference those 
symbols.  If there are a few symbols you do want to have directly 
included, then import them one at a time, without the * notation.  (just 
my opinion)

DaveA



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Thu Aug  6 01:19:24 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 02:19:24 -0300
Subject: Two Dimensional Array + ctypes
References: <79d2b3e3-b049-4d70-a56b-6e7f3ea2fa86@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

En Wed, 05 Aug 2009 20:12:09 -0300, Sparky  escribi?:

> Hello! I am trying to call this method:
>
> long _stdcall AIBurst(long *idnum, [...]
> 			 long timeout,
> 			 float (*voltages)[4],
> 			 long *stateIOout,
> 			 long *overVoltage,
> 			 long transferMode);
>
> I am having some problems with that  float (*voltages)[4].

>         pointerArray = (ctypes.c_void_p * 4)
>         voltages = pointerArray(ctypes.cast(ctypes.pointer
> ((ctypes.c_long * 4096)()), ctypes.c_void_p), ctypes.cast
> (ctypes.pointer((ctypes.c_long * 4096)()), ctypes.c_void_p),
> ctypes.cast(ctypes.pointer((ctypes.c_long * 4096)()),
> ctypes.c_void_p), ctypes.cast(ctypes.pointer((ctypes.c_long * 4096)

Why c_long and not c_float?
Anyway, this way looks much more clear to me (and doesn't require a cast):

arr4096_type = ctypes.c_float * 4096
voltages_type = arr4096_type * 4
voltages = voltages_type()

> The program runs but the values that come back in the array are not
> right.

Thay might be due to the long/float confusion.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From davea at ieee.org  Thu Aug  6 01:25:48 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 01:25:48 -0400
Subject: Web page data and urllib2.urlopen
In-Reply-To: <469a6df4-92da-4fd1-bffd-5fefa8cdf3ed@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <469a6df4-92da-4fd1-bffd-5fefa8cdf3ed@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A7A695C.4010403@ieee.org>

Massi wrote:
> Hi everyone, I'm using the urllib2 library to get the html source code
> of web pages. In general it works great, but I'm having to do with a
> financial web site which does not provide the souce code I expect. As
> a matter of fact if you try:
>
> import urllib2
> res = urllib2.urlopen("http://www.marketwatch.com/story/mondays-
> biggest-gaining-and-declining-stocks-2009-07-27")
> page = res.read()
> print page
>
> you will see that the printed code is very different from the one
> given, for example, by mozilla. Since I have really little knowledge
> in html I can't even understand if this is a python or html problem.
> Can anyone give me some help?
> Thanks in advance.
>
>   
I don't think this is a Python issue, but a "raw read" versus an 
interactive interpretation of a page.  The browser does lots more than a 
single roundtrip defined by urlopen/read.

I also would love to see some explanation of what happens here, or a 
pointer to a reference that would help me understand it.

I took the output of the read(), and formatted it, roughly, as html.  I 
expected to find a refresh, which is the simplest way that one page can 
cause a very different one to be loaded.
      

If Mozilla had seen a page with this line in an appropriate place, it'd 
immediately begin loading the other page, at "someotherurl"  But there's 
no such line.

Next, I looked for javascript.  The Mozilla page contains lots of 
javascript, but there's none in the raw page.  So I can't explain 
Mozilla's differences that way.

I did notice the link to /m/Content/mobile2.css, but I don' t know any 
way a CSS file could cause the content to change, just the display.

All I can guess is that it has something to do with "browser type" or 
cookies.  And that would make lots of sense if this was a cgi page.  But 
the URL doesn't look like that, as it doesn't end in pl, py, asp, or any 
of another dozen special suffixes.

Any hints, anybody???

DaveA



From MatzeGuentert at gmx.de  Thu Aug  6 01:26:31 2009
From: MatzeGuentert at gmx.de (Matthias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=FCntert?=)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 07:26:31 +0200
Subject: M2Crypto: How to generate subjectKeyIdentifier /
	authorityKeyIdentifier
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <1249536391.3348.35.camel@celsius>

> M2Crypto has a couple of bugs open related that, with potential
> workarounds that I haven't yet deemed polished enough to checkin, but
> which might help you out:
> 
> https://bugzilla.osafoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7530
> https://bugzilla.osafoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12151

Thanks, that helped me a lot. Generating the 'subjectKeyIdentifier' now
works for me using the following procedure:

----------------------------------------------------------
import hashlib 

def get_public_key_fingerprint(self):
	h = hashlib.new('sha1')
    	h.update(self.keypair.as_der())
    	client_serial = h.hexdigest().upper()
    	client_serial_hex = ''
    	
    	for byte in xrange(20):
    	 client_serial_hex += client_serial[byte*2] + client_serial[byte*2
+1]
    		if byte < 19:
    			client_serial_hex += ':'
    
        return client_serial_hex 

[...]
cert_extension_4 = X509.new_extension("subjectKeyIdentifier",
keys_ca.get_public_key_fingerprint()) 
----------------------------------------------------------

However I don't understand the way the hash gets build. Comparing the
output from a given keypair and certificate build via OpenVPNs easy-rsa
scripts shows different subjectKeyIdentifiers. As stated out by rfc5280
there is no right or wrong way in creating the unique hash, so this
should be fine. 

But setting the 'authorityKeyIdentifier' extension gives me some
headache here. The following code snippet produces a segmentation fault
on my python interpreter (version 2.6)  

----------------------------------------------------------
cert_extension = X509.new_extension("authorityKeyIdentifier",
keys_ca.get_public_key_fingerprint())

cert_extension_stack.push(cert_extension)
----------------------------------------------------------

Same on this:
----------------------------------------------------------
cert_extension = 

X509.new_extension("authorityKeyIdentifier",
"keyid:1C:88:E1:8E:F1:5F:9D:1C:2B:6C:41:D4:3D:BB:79:0D:33:4A:E3:9A,
DirName:/C=US/ST=CA/L=SanFrancisco/O=Fort-Funston/CN=Fort-Funston
CA/emailAddress=me at myhost.mydomain, serial:B1:82:B1:E4:23:78:F1:12")

cert_extension_stack.push(cert_extension)
----------------------------------------------------------

So the question is: Is there another workaround to set this extension?
How can I provide more information to get this fixed? Working with the
latest SVN version is no option for me at the moment. 

Thanks in advance,
Matthias 




From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Thu Aug  6 01:30:58 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 02:30:58 -0300
Subject: os.system in a service
References: 
Message-ID: 

En Wed, 05 Aug 2009 13:07:39 -0300, Lawrence Wong  
 escribi?:

> I wrote a program which runs a .bat file using os.system like:  
> 'os.system(pathToBatFile)' and everything was good.  Then I decided to  
> turn my program into a service as opposed to being run with the command  
> prompt showing.  When my program became a service, I noticed that the  
> os.system command to run my .bat file was no longer working.  By 'not  
> working' I mean no exception is thrown, but it was as if the line with  
> os.system(pathToBatFile) did not exist.  I was wondering why this is and  
> if there is a way to fix this or what an alternative to using os.system  
> to run my .bat file was?

Capture stdout and stderr and you'll probably see the error message:

some_command >logfile.txt 2>&1

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From pfeldman at verizon.net  Thu Aug  6 01:42:26 2009
From: pfeldman at verizon.net (Dr. Phillip M. Feldman)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 22:42:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to comment on a Python PEP?
Message-ID: <24840417.post@talk.nabble.com>


Is there a mechanism for submitting comments on a Python PEP?
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/How-to-comment-on-a-Python-PEP--tp24840417p24840417.html
Sent from the Python - python-list mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From mlm2winnet at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 01:49:42 2009
From: mlm2winnet at gmail.com (Chris Harris)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 22:49:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Hi everyone
Message-ID: <150d41dd-018a-48a0-8dda-43e7832d6434@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

I'm happy to be a part of this group, i'd liek to say hi and invite
everyone to join my group =D Have a great night i look forward to
being an active member of this group

http://groups.google.com/group/mlm-2-win


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Thu Aug  6 01:50:01 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 02:50:01 -0300
Subject: Parsing Binary Structures; Is there a better way / What is your
	way?
References: 
Message-ID: 

En Wed, 05 Aug 2009 11:46:13 -0300, Martin P. Hellwig  
 escribi?:

> On several occasions I have needed (and build) a parser that reads a  
> binary piece of data with custom structure. For example (bogus one):
>
> BE
> +---------+---------+-------------+-------------+------+--------+
> | Version | Command | Instruction | Data Length | Data | Filler |
> +---------+---------+-------------+-------------+------+--------+
> Version: 6 bits
> Command: 4 bits
> Instruction: 5 bits
> Data Length: 5 bits
> Data: 0-31 bits
> Filler: filling 0 bits to make the packet dividable by 8

> - Using a string for binary representation takes at least 8 times more  
> memory for the packet than strictly necessary.

The size difference isn't so big; an integer takes 12 bytes and a string  
takes 24+len bytes. "Data" above would take 56 bytes max when stored as a  
string '0110001...' vs. 12 bytes when using a plain integer (sizes  
computed on Windows 32bits). Plus, doing bitwise operations in Python  
isn't a fast operation as it is in C, by example -- so your current  
implementation might be a quite good one (in pure Python, I mean).

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From davea at ieee.org  Thu Aug  6 02:30:47 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 02:30:47 -0400
Subject: access read / write violation with ctypes
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A7A7897.1030207@ieee.org>

DH wrote:
> 
>
> I'm using popen to capture dcraw stdout and want to pass it to
> magickwand. If I instead write the dcraw output to a file then read it
> with magickwand I get the same error. But if I comment out the dcraw
> protion and read the dcraw output file from the previous attempt,
> MagickWand opens the file fine and I can manipulate it to my hearts
> content. The basics:
>
> 
>   
Just a quick guess, based only on this paragraph.  But I'd guess the 
dcraw output file is buffered, and is not fully written when you're 
trying to read it back.

You could do some checking by comparing sizes, when you get it from the 
pipe, and when you see it finally written in the directory.

DaveA


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Thu Aug  6 02:43:58 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 08:43:58 +0200
Subject: Datetime with float seconds
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <200908060843.58925.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Wednesday 05 August 2009 14:50:04 kpal wrote:
> Hello Everybody,
>
> The standard datetime has 1 microsecond granularity. My application
> needs finer time resolution, preferably float seconds. Is there an
> alternative to the out-of-the-box datetime? Timezone support is not
> essential.

I am curious as to what would require less than microsecond
timing - about the only thing I can think of would be something
involving measuring the speed of light, where nanoseconds
or better would be nice.

- Hendrik



From davea at ieee.org  Thu Aug  6 02:45:01 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 02:45:01 -0400
Subject: Parsing Binary Structures;	Is there a better way / What is
	your way?
In-Reply-To: <7xr5vqw0v9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: 	<7x3a86gmfe.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	
	<7xr5vqw0v9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <4A7A7BED.4030105@ieee.org>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> "Martin P. Hellwig"  writes:
>   
>> Is there an advantage using shifts and masks over my kitchen type solution?
>>     
>
> Weren't you complaining about the 8-to-1 expansion from turning each bit
> to an ascii char?
>
>   
One warning to Martin:

If you want your code portable across systems, watch out for 
big-endian/little-endian  issues, as well as alignment ones.  Shift & 
mask code tends to be highly specific to a particular endian-ness, 
especially if trying to get multiple bits that cross a byte or word 
boundary.

Over the years, I know I've seen at least three endian versions for the 
same 32bit word.  Something like abcd, dcba, and cdab.

One advantage of converting first to bitstrings, is that there's just 
the two places to fix, for portability, the conversion from byte array 
to bitstring, and the conversion back.

DaveA



From deets at nospam.web.de  Thu Aug  6 02:59:13 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 08:59:13 +0200
Subject: os.system in a service
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <7dvda1F2c4s7kU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Gabriel Genellina schrieb:
> En Wed, 05 Aug 2009 13:07:39 -0300, Lawrence Wong 
>  escribi?:
> 
>> I wrote a program which runs a .bat file using os.system like: 
>> 'os.system(pathToBatFile)' and everything was good.  Then I decided to 
>> turn my program into a service as opposed to being run with the 
>> command prompt showing.  When my program became a service, I noticed 
>> that the os.system command to run my .bat file was no longer working.  
>> By 'not working' I mean no exception is thrown, but it was as if the 
>> line with os.system(pathToBatFile) did not exist.  I was wondering why 
>> this is and if there is a way to fix this or what an alternative to 
>> using os.system to run my .bat file was?
> 
> Capture stdout and stderr and you'll probably see the error message:
> 
> some_command >logfile.txt 2>&1

Which isn't possible as a service.

The OP might consider using suprocess istead of os.system, and establish 
pipes to read the output of the command into a file he can analyze.

Diez


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Thu Aug  6 03:39:33 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 09:39:33 +0200
Subject: Parsing Binary Structures;
	Is there a better way / What is your way?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <200908060939.33365.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Wednesday 05 August 2009 16:46:13 Martin P. Hellwig wrote:
> Hi List,
>
> On several occasions I have needed (and build) a parser that reads a
> binary piece of data with custom structure. For example (bogus one):
>
> BE
> +---------+---------+-------------+-------------+------+--------+
>
> | Version | Command | Instruction | Data Length | Data | Filler |
>
> +---------+---------+-------------+-------------+------+--------+
> Version: 6 bits
> Command: 4 bits
> Instruction: 5 bits
> Data Length: 5 bits
> Data: 0-31 bits
> Filler: filling 0 bits to make the packet dividable by 8
>
> what I usually do is read the packet in binary mode, convert the output
> to a concatenated 'binary string'(i.e. '0101011000110') and then use
> slice indeces to get the right data portions.
> Depending on what I need to do with these portions I convert them to
> whatever is handy (usually an integer).

This bit banging stuff is a PITA, no matter what you do.
Python does not have bit fields like C.
And C bit fields are implementation dependent.
Write an extension?

Some time ago I asked a similar question, and
Castironpi came up with what was essentially an
indexed integer, with named bits.

It stores the bits natively, but I suspect that the
price paid is access time.

I enclose a module that you can adapt.
It talks about bytes but they are integers really.
It is different from what you are doing, as it
was aimed at reading and writing bits in 
a hardware context.

If you get your head around the concept,
then it may give you some ideas.  It should
be possible to extend the concept to
pass name,length tuples at construction time
instead of just a name with an implied length 
of one bit, and it may make sense to change
the underlying type from an integer to an 
array of one byte integers.

It is nice to be able to say:
val = bitname() 
to read, and 
bitname(1)
or
bitname(0)
to write.

I can also write:
outputbits[3] = 1
or
val = inputbits[5]

If you can successfully generalise it
to field names It should be very useful.

I cannot think of a way though, to not
have the "in" and "out" split, but you can
program your way around that - you do not
have to update "in place".

- Hendrik

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From kpalamartchouk at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 03:46:58 2009
From: kpalamartchouk at gmail.com (kpal)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 00:46:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Datetime with float seconds
References: 
	
Message-ID: <0819ae46-767f-4256-81d9-f265b7552cd8@h31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 6, 7:43?am, Hendrik van Rooyen  wrote:

> I am curious as to what would require less than microsecond
> timing - about the only thing I can think of would be something
> involving measuring the speed of light, where nanoseconds
> or better would be nice.

You are right :-) I am trying to write a scientific software that does
some satellite geodesy computations (involving the speed of light),
and I would prefer to keep all the times float, while retaining the
time and time interval arithmetics and format transformation
capabilities of datetime. The system time granularity, that is of
cause limited, is not a problem at all, as the data are to be
initialized by constructing instances from external data.

Thanks


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Thu Aug  6 03:58:30 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 09:58:30 +0200
Subject: Parsing Binary Structures;
	Is there a better way / What is your way?
In-Reply-To: <7x3a86gmfe.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: 
	<7x3a86gmfe.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <200908060958.30882.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Wednesday 05 August 2009 20:12:05 Paul Rubin wrote:
> "Martin P. Hellwig"  writes:
> > what I usually do is read the packet in binary mode, convert the
> > output to a concatenated 'binary string'(i.e. '0101011000110') and
>
> Something wrong with reading the data words as an integer and using
> old fashioned shifts and masks to get at the bit fields?

There is nothing wrong with that, and in the final analysis, it is what
is used - however, I can sympathize with the OP, as it is much nicer
to just call a named thing than to juggle a bunch of hard coded
shifts and masks.

I think the real point here is sort of meta programming - what
is needed is a way to describe and name the elements of the
structure so that useful python objects are created.

The code I posted for bits does that, and I use it all the
time - it is almost as good as being back in 8031 assembler
with direct named bit access.

- Hendrik


From contact at xavierho.com  Thu Aug  6 04:05:52 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 18:05:52 +1000
Subject: merge two png pic
In-Reply-To: <69579cfc-9151-43df-a5ef-a6b05f1bd718@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	
	<006617e3-6630-4f04-bff1-99c58dbb6cb5@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<4a77e249$0$2449$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<72d7aad1-1fb7-4b32-a87f-636505b0faa2@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
	<4a793852$0$19598$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<69579cfc-9151-43df-a5ef-a6b05f1bd718@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908060105p1604f02u57128d23172b3d67@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 12:17 PM, cocobear  wrote:

>
> I want to view image use Windows Pic View.
>
> If you run out of memory trying to combining those images into a 30k by 40k
pixels image, the Windows Pic View isn't going to be able to display it
either.

Regards,

Ching-Yun "Xavier" Ho, Technical Artist

Contact Information
Mobile: (+61) 04 3335 4748
Skype ID: SpaXe85
Email: contact at xavierho.com
Website: http://xavierho.com/
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From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Thu Aug  6 04:06:04 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 10:06:04 +0200
Subject: Parsing Binary Structures;
	Is there a better way / What is your way?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<7xr5vqw0v9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
Message-ID: <200908061006.04437.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Wednesday 05 August 2009 21:41:26 Martin P. Hellwig wrote:

> Yes you are (of course) right, my 'dream' solution would be something
> that accepts slice indeces on bit level. Your reasoning did reveal some
> flaws in my approach though ;-)

This is the first time I have been compared to the sandman...

:-)

- Hendrik



From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Aug  6 04:24:08 2009
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?UTF-8?B?Ik1hcnRpbiB2LiBMw7Z3aXMi?=)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 10:24:08 +0200
Subject: String to valid Python identifier
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4a7a9328$0$2355$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

> Is there any easy function in the stdlib to convert any random string in 
> a valid Python identifier .. possibly by replacing non-valid characters 
> with _ ?

I think this is fairly underspecified as a problem statement. A solution
that would meet your specification would be

def mkident(s):
    return "foo"

It returns a valid Python identifier for any random string.

If you now complain that this gives too many collisions, I propose

def mkident(s):
    return "foo%d" % (hash(s) & 0x7fffffff)

Regards,
Martin


From contact at xavierho.com  Thu Aug  6 04:26:22 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 18:26:22 +1000
Subject: Subclassing Python's dict
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<2d56febf0908050732i7792bf7ft32accf1bc1157421@mail.gmail.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908060126i323d499fla4b7a22c934c5e7@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 1:19 PM, alex23  wrote:

> Xavier Ho wrote:
> > You should subclass collections.UserDict, and not the default dict class.
> > Refer to the collections module.
>
> Xavier, why do you think that is the correct approach?


I'll be honest first and say that I do not completely understand how dict is
implemented in the underlying C structure. But as Bruno had already
mentioned, dict has a slightly different behaviour then we'd expect. For
example, the __getitem__() function isn't actually used by the interpreter
(which, you know, *can* be a problem.)

http://www.python.org/download/releases/2.2.3/descrintro/#subclassing
(I don't know if 2.6.2 changed anything since 2.2.3, but there are some
references you can look at, and sample code.)

To answer your question, it's really not "the correct approach", but I think
(meaning: untested) UserDict doesn't have the same implementation, which
might free up some restrictions Sergey encountered.

The docs say
> "The need for this class has been largely supplanted by the ability to
> subclass directly from dict (a feature that became available starting
> with Python version 2.2)."


I didn't realise they took UserDict out in later versions (2.6, for
example), and put it back in Python 3.0. Does anyone know why?

So, I do not actually know.

> If you mean that Sergey should subclass _in this instance_ could you
> please explain why? (Sorry if you already have, I never saw your
> original post...)
>

It was really more or less an educated guess. He didn't tell us what he is
trying to achieve, so _in this instance_ I can't give more advice than
saying "well, if this doesn't work, here are you other options that I know
of/just found. Try these and let us know if you got it to work." *winks*

-

Sometimes I do answer a little too quickly, I apologise for that.

- Xav
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From iainking at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 04:28:29 2009
From: iainking at gmail.com (Iain King)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 01:28:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: remove last 76 letters from string
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

>      print >>nucleotides, seq[-76]

> ? ? ?last_part = line.rstrip()[-76 : ]

You all mean:   seq[:-76]   , right? (assuming you've already stripped
any junk off the end of the string)

Iain


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Thu Aug  6 04:35:57 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 05:35:57 -0300
Subject: os.system in a service
References: 
	
	<7dvda1F2c4s7kU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: 

En Thu, 06 Aug 2009 03:59:13 -0300, Diez B. Roggisch   
escribi?:
> Gabriel Genellina schrieb:
>> En Wed, 05 Aug 2009 13:07:39 -0300, Lawrence Wong  
>>  escribi?:

>>> I wrote a program which runs a .bat file using os.system like:  
>>> 'os.system(pathToBatFile)' and everything was good.  Then I decided to  
>>> turn my program into a service as opposed to being run with the  
>>> command prompt showing.  When my program became a service, I noticed  
>>> that the os.system command to run my .bat file was no longer working.  
>>> [...]

>>  Capture stdout and stderr and you'll probably see the error message:
>>  some_command >logfile.txt 2>&1
>
> Which isn't possible as a service.

Why you say so? One should avoid using mapped drive letters and network  
shares -- that probably aren't defined for the account under which the  
service runs. And always use absolute paths. And ensure the account has  
write permissions for the output file... But other than that, os.system  
should work fine. Do I miss something?

> The OP might consider using suprocess istead of os.system, and establish  
> pipes to read the output of the command into a file he can analyze.

That's a good idea, although overkill for simple cases I'd say.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Aug  6 04:42:33 2009
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 10:42:33 +0200
Subject: How to comment on a Python PEP?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4a7a9779$0$2384$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

> Is there a mechanism for submitting comments on a Python PEP?

You post to python-dev or comp.lang.python, and you CC the author.

Regards,
Martin


From dr.scottgriffiths at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 04:44:19 2009
From: dr.scottgriffiths at gmail.com (sgriffiths)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 01:44:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Parsing Binary Structures; Is there a better way / What is your 
	way?
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 5, 3:46?pm, "Martin P. Hellwig" 
wrote:
> Hi List,
>
> On several occasions I have needed (and build) a parser that reads a
> binary piece of data with custom structure. For example (bogus one):
>
> BE
> +---------+---------+-------------+-------------+------+--------+
> | Version | Command | Instruction | Data Length | Data | Filler |
> +---------+---------+-------------+-------------+------+--------+
> Version: 6 bits
> Command: 4 bits
> Instruction: 5 bits
> Data Length: 5 bits
> Data: 0-31 bits
> Filler: filling 0 bits to make the packet dividable by 8
>
> what I usually do is read the packet in binary mode, convert the output
> to a concatenated 'binary string'(i.e. '0101011000110') and then use
> slice indeces to get the right data portions.
> Depending on what I need to do with these portions I convert them to
> whatever is handy (usually an integer).
>
> This works out fine for me. Most of the time I also put the ASCII art
> diagram of this 'protocol' as a comment in the code, making it more
> readable/understandable.
>
> Though there are a couple of things that bothers me with my approach:
> - This seems such a general problem that I think that there must be
> already a general pythonic solution.
> - Using a string for binary representation takes at least 8 times more
> memory for the packet than strictly necessary.
> - Seems to need a lot of prep work before doing the actual parsing.
>
> Any suggestion is greatly appreciated.
>
> --
> MPHhttp://blog.dcuktec.com
> 'If consumed, best digested with added seasoning to own preference.'

Take a look at the bitstring module (in pypi or google code). It's
designed to help make this sort of thing easy and it's more fully
featured than BitVector or BitSet. Internally the data is stored as a
byte array, so memory isn't wasted. It will also do all the dirty work
of bit masking and shifting so that you can concentrate on the real
problems. For example:

>>> s = BitString('0x1232432312')  # just to give us some data to play with
>>> ver, comm, instr, bitlen = s.read('uint6, bin4, bin5, uint5')
>>> data = s.readbits(bitlen)

Different interpretations of the binary data are given using Python
properties (e.g. s.hex, s.oct, s.uint, etc.) and it supports bit-wise
slicing, modification, finding, replacing and more. It is also still
in active development (full disclosure: I'm the author :-)).



From contact at xavierho.com  Thu Aug  6 04:44:45 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 18:44:45 +1000
Subject: remove last 76 letters from string
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908060144g4201d152mbf981c9273d5915f@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 6:28 PM, Iain King  wrote:

> >      print >>nucleotides, seq[-76]
>
> >      last_part = line.rstrip()[-76 : ]
>
> You all mean:   seq[:-76]   , right? (assuming you've already stripped
> any junk off the end of the string)
>

I think so, probably both of them typo'd. (What are the probabilities of
that?)

It looks to me like you have two lines per DNA sequence. What you could do
instead, is to alternate the line reading with a with statement, as
suggested by Jan. Although I don't know why he's nesting two of them.
(explanation would be neat.)

Here's my version of approach, given the sample data the OP posted:

with open('NodeList.txt', 'r') as file:
    for line in file.readlines():
        line = line.rstrip()
        if line[0] == '>':
            # Do for New DNA Sequence
            # ...
        else:
            line = line[:-76]
            # ...

Should do what you need.

Best regards,

Ching-Yun "Xavier" Ho, Technical Artist

Contact Information
Mobile: (+61) 04 3335 4748
Skype ID: SpaXe85
Email: contact at xavierho.com
Website: http://xavierho.com/
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From sanu1267 at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 05:25:58 2009
From: sanu1267 at gmail.com (sanju ps)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 14:55:58 +0530
Subject: handling kill signal
Message-ID: <2b76be80908060225n674cbea5x6511d768c2828be6@mail.gmail.com>

I want to handle a kill signal..In my program i wrote like this

def handler(signum, frame):
    print "Signal",signum
    delete_temp_file()
    exit(1)
signal.signal(signal.SIGTERM, handler)

And when i tried pkill processid .program is exited but not deleting the
temp file
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From thangappan143 at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 06:30:15 2009
From: thangappan143 at gmail.com (Thangappan.M)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 16:00:15 +0530
Subject: Problem in installing PyGreSQL
In-Reply-To: 
References: <7aa29e790908032045p3b52a633m8d0e366a0f648b@mail.gmail.com>
	<7f0b4d2b1d5bd3f3057ead3b029059b9@preisshare.net>
	<20090804084856.b825967a.darcy@druid.net>
	
	<20090804095547.a5274e22.darcy@druid.net> 
Message-ID: <7aa29e790908060330x67d900a9rfb4677eaf0eddeb@mail.gmail.com>

I have downloaded the  psycopg2 tar file from the following link.
http://initd.org/tracker/psycopg

I have done the following things.
         * Extracting the files from the tar file
         * tried to execute python ./setup.py build

It gives the following error.

#python ./setup.py build

running build
running build_py
running build_ext
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./setup.py", line 410, in ?
    ext_modules=ext)
  File "distutils/core.py", line 149, in setup
  File "distutils/dist.py", line 946, in run_commands
  File "distutils/dist.py", line 966, in run_command
  File "distutils/command/build.py", line 112, in run
  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/cmd.py", line 333, in run_command
    del help[cmd]
  File "distutils/dist.py", line 965, in run_command
  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/cmd.py", line 117, in ensure_finalized
    pass
  File "./setup.py", line 219, in finalize_options
    except (Warning, w):
NameError: global name 'w' is not defined

What would be the solution?
Otherwise can you tell how to install DB-API in debian machine.

On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

> On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 09:55:47 -0400, "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" 
> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>
> >
> > By the way, you don't have to be super user to install PyGreSQL.  You
> > just need SU if you want to install it system wide.  PyGreSQL doesn't
> > require any special privileges to run.
> >
>         Potentially silly question:
>
>        While the DB-API module may be installable in a user mode... Do we
> know if the original querant even has PostgreSQL running and accessible?
>
> The statement
>
> OP> I want to access the database related stuffs in python.So I found
> the
> OP> PyGreSQL module in net.
>
> doesn't leave me with any confidence that they realize this is just an
> access module for one specific server -- and that they still need a
> server to which they can connect.
>
>        If they don't have a PostgreSQL server, it may be better just to
> direct them to SQLite3...
> --
>        Wulfraed        Dennis Lee Bieber               KD6MOG
>        wlfraed at ix.netcom.com           wulfraed at bestiaria.com
>                HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/
>        (Bestiaria Support Staff:               web-asst at bestiaria.com)
>                HTTP://www.bestiaria.com/
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
Regards,
Thangappan.M
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From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Aug  6 06:34:24 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 11:34:24 +0100
Subject: remove last 76 letters from string
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	
	
Message-ID: <4A7AB1B0.7090606@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Iain King wrote:
>>      print >>nucleotides, seq[-76]
> 
>>      last_part = line.rstrip()[-76 : ]
> 
> You all mean:   seq[:-76]   , right? (assuming you've already stripped
> any junk off the end of the string)
> 
The OP said "cut out the last 76 letters (nucleotides) from each
individual sequence and send them to a new txt file with a similar 
format.", ie extract the last 76 letters (in the same format) to a file.


From deets at nospam.web.de  Thu Aug  6 06:38:39 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 12:38:39 +0200
Subject: Cython + setuptools not working with .pyx,only with .c-files
Message-ID: <7dvq5fF2e21b7U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Hi,


I'm trying to build a Cython-extension as Egg.

However, this doesn't work - I can either use distutils to build the
extension, creating a myextension.c-file on the way.

If that's there, I can use setuptools to build the egg.

But when I remove the .c-file, the .pyx-file isn't used to re-generate it.

This is my setup.py:

----
import os
import glob
from setuptools import setup, Extension
#from distutils.core import setup
#from distutils.extension import Extension

from Cython.Distutils import build_ext


objs = [...] # a static lib I want to wrap

setup(
    name='MyExtension',
    version="0.1",
    description='',
    author='Diez B. Roggisch',
    author_email='...',
    cmdclass = {'build_ext': build_ext},
    ext_modules = [Extension("myextension", ["myextension.pyx"],
                             libraries=["crypto"],
                             extra_objects = objs)],

-----


I can of course check in the myextension.c-file , and then when actually
working on the extension create it new by uncommenting the above lines.

But I guess that's not really the way things should work...

Diez


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 06:38:53 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 03:38:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Subclassing Python's dict
References:  
	<4a7999b1$0$306$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <2c161a54-fade-4753-aa3f-3fee67632056@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 5, 7:39?am, Bruno Desthuilliers  wrote:
> Sergey Simonenko a ?crit :
>
> > Hi,
>
> > I subclass builtin 'dict' in my application and experience some problems
> > with it.
>
> > The whole issue is that I should redefine 'setdefault' and 'update'
> > methods after redefining '__setitem__' or/and '__delitem__',
> > otherwise 'update' and 'setdefault' ignore redefined '__setitem__' and
> > use builtin dict's one so dict looks kinda like a black box.
>
> > Another guy have reported me that he experiences similar problems with
> > subclassing builtin 'list'.
>
> I indeed notice this behaviour here (Python 2.6.2). I'm afraid it has to
> do with some optimization tricks (dict being the very fundamental data
> structure in Python, it has to be higly optimized).

You can ultimately blame it on optimization in this case, but in
general there isn't any way (in Python) to require that __setitem__ be
the common point for all modifications.

In fact this is an example of a general condition of OOP.  A "high-
level" method may or may not call a "low-level" method to do its dirty
work, and there is no way to know this simply from the class's
interface.  You need to have knowledge of the implementation to know
whether you need to override "high-level" or "low-level" methods.  In
general you can't safely subclass based on the interface alone; you
have to know what you're subclassing.

(As an aside: this intuitively is the reason why I never cared much
for some of the arguments against inheritance.  Many arguments against
inheritance go like this: "Inheritance is bad because X can happen if
you're not careful".  Doesn't mean anything to me because you have be
careful anyway.)

Because of the care required when subclassing, I tend to use
inheritance only when the intended base class is A. also under my
control, or B. specifically designed to be subclassed.  Examples of B
in the standard Python library are Queue and Thread.  list and dict
are allowed to be subclassed but aren't specifically designed for it,
so I tend not to subclass those.  (It is occasionally indispensible,
though.)


Carl Banks


From cournape at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 06:57:11 2009
From: cournape at gmail.com (David Cournapeau)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 19:57:11 +0900
Subject: Using Python to automate builds
In-Reply-To: 
References: <84d9ae10-3aee-40a8-97ac-05799da0de64@f18g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<200908050956.33995.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
	<5b8d13220908050508n32f05bep4c275cec14914588@mail.gmail.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <5b8d13220908060357rb2fa7bp519809ce73455c28@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 12:39 AM, Kosta wrote:

>
> Setenv.bat sets up the path and other environment variables build.exe
> needs to compile and link (and even binplace) its utilities. ?So
> building itself is not the issue. ?The problem is that if I call
> setenv.bat from Python and then build.exe, but the modifications to
> the path (and other environment settings) are not seen by Python, so
> the attempt to build without a specified path fails.

It sounds like you do not propagate the environment when calling
setenv.bat from python. There is an option to do so in
subprocess.Popen init method, or you can define your own environment
if you do not want to propagate the whole environment (but this is
often difficult to avoid for build environment in my experience,
expecially if you don't have access to the sources of the whole system
to check which variables are necessary).

David


From lawrencew00 at hotmail.com  Thu Aug  6 06:58:03 2009
From: lawrencew00 at hotmail.com (Lawrence Wong)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 10:58:03 +0000
Subject: os.system in a service
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	<7dvda1F2c4s7kU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> 
	
Message-ID: 


I actually found the solution.  I was trying to copy a file from another computer to the current one.  My 'access was denied'.  So I had to go to my service at Admin Tools --> Services and 'Log on as' the Administrator.  Was ok after that.  Thanks for your responses everyone.  

> To: python-list at python.org
> From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar
> Subject: Re: os.system in a service
> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 05:35:57 -0300
> 
> En Thu, 06 Aug 2009 03:59:13 -0300, Diez B. Roggisch   
> escribi?:
> > Gabriel Genellina schrieb:
> >> En Wed, 05 Aug 2009 13:07:39 -0300, Lawrence Wong  
> >>  escribi?:
> 
> >>> I wrote a program which runs a .bat file using os.system like:  
> >>> 'os.system(pathToBatFile)' and everything was good.  Then I decided to  
> >>> turn my program into a service as opposed to being run with the  
> >>> command prompt showing.  When my program became a service, I noticed  
> >>> that the os.system command to run my .bat file was no longer working.  
> >>> [...]
> 
> >>  Capture stdout and stderr and you'll probably see the error message:
> >>  some_command >logfile.txt 2>&1
> >
> > Which isn't possible as a service.
> 
> Why you say so? One should avoid using mapped drive letters and network  
> shares -- that probably aren't defined for the account under which the  
> service runs. And always use absolute paths. And ensure the account has  
> write permissions for the output file... But other than that, os.system  
> should work fine. Do I miss something?
> 
> > The OP might consider using suprocess istead of os.system, and establish  
> > pipes to read the output of the command into a file he can analyze.
> 
> That's a good idea, although overkill for simple cases I'd say.
> 
> -- 
> Gabriel Genellina
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

_________________________________________________________________
More storage. Better anti-spam and antivirus protection. Hotmail makes it simple.
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9671357
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From cournape at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 07:00:09 2009
From: cournape at gmail.com (David Cournapeau)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 20:00:09 +0900
Subject: Cython + setuptools not working with .pyx,only with .c-files
In-Reply-To: <7dvq5fF2e21b7U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: <7dvq5fF2e21b7U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <5b8d13220908060400m4d096726i6d929fb0e32a0327@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 7:38 PM, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
> I'm trying to build a Cython-extension as Egg.
>
> However, this doesn't work - I can either use distutils to build the
> extension, creating a myextension.c-file on the way.
>
> If that's there, I can use setuptools to build the egg.
>
> But when I remove the .c-file, the .pyx-file isn't used to re-generate it.
>
> This is my setup.py:
>
> ----
> import os
> import glob
> from setuptools import setup, Extension
> #from distutils.core import setup
> #from distutils.extension import Extension
>
> from Cython.Distutils import build_ext

What happens if you import setuptools *after* Cython.distutils ? My
guess - I could be wrong - is that both Cython.distutils and
setuptools monkey-patch distutils, and that setuptools does not "see"
Cython.Distutils. It could also be an incompatibility between
Cython.Distutils and setuptools (the design of distutils forces you to
take into account the details of things modified by every distutils
extension).

cheers,

David


From doron.tal.list at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 08:00:45 2009
From: doron.tal.list at gmail.com (Doron Tal)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 15:00:45 +0300
Subject: inspect.stack() performance
Message-ID: <2a8674c60908060500k1c77b556la70d06d5feaaef0e@mail.gmail.com>

I use inspect.stack() to extract some info, such as file name, function name
and line number, for the sake of logging (home brew logger).
I tested to see how much time it takes to execute the command:

Python 2.4.3 (#1, Jan 21 2009, 01:11:33)
[GCC 4.1.2 20071124 (Red Hat 4.1.2-42)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import timeit
>>> t = timeit.Timer('inspect.stack()', 'import inspect')
>>> t.repeat(3,1000)
[0.28500604629516602, 0.28315305709838867, 0.29169297218322754]
>>>

About 280uSec per call.

If I log 1000 times per seconds than I get to spend 28% of the process time
on inspect.stack()
Is there a better/quicker way of retrieving the same info?

Thanks,
--doron
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From Michalek.Jan at uhul.cz  Thu Aug  6 08:37:55 2009
From: Michalek.Jan at uhul.cz (=?iso-8859-2?Q?MICH=C1LEK_Jan_Mgr=2E?=)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 14:37:55 +0200
Subject: one method of COM object needs a variant type variable
Message-ID: <913F77222E913C49A057FDD7BBDEAAA30192B846@br-dc.uhul.wan>

How i can use this type in win32.com? One method of com object (geomedia storage service) needs this variable for storage geometry of geometry object (this variable will be writen into blob in DB). Is possible make this variable in py??
Thanks Jelen/Stack
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From marcusw at cox.net  Thu Aug  6 09:24:33 2009
From: marcusw at cox.net (Marcus Wanner)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 09:24:33 -0400
Subject: Overlap in python
In-Reply-To: <4c9f81a5-51b9-4487-9df9-d458b327d286@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
References: 	<4A78B19D.4020306@mrabarnett.plus.com>	
	<4c9f81a5-51b9-4487-9df9-d458b327d286@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On 8/5/2009 10:56 AM, nn wrote:
> On Aug 5, 7:13 am, Marcus Wanner  wrote:
>> On 8/4/2009 6:09 PM, MRAB wrote:
>>
>>>  >>> parts = [(5, 9, "a"), (7, 10, "b"), (3, 6, "c"), (15, 20, "d"),
>>> (18, 23, "e")]
>>>  >>> parts.sort()
>>>  >>> parts
>>> [(3, 6, 'c'), (5, 9, 'a'), (7, 10, 'b'), (15, 20, 'd'), (18, 23, 'e')]
>>>  >>> # Merge overlapping intervals.
>>>  >>> pos = 1
>>>  >>> while pos < len(parts):
>>>         # Merge the pair in parts[pos - 1 : pos + 1] if they overlap.
>>>         p, q = parts[pos - 1 : pos + 1]
>>>         if p[1] >= q[0]:
>>>                 parts[pos - 1 : pos + 1] = [(p[0], max(p[1], q[1]), p[2]
>>> + "." + q[2])]
>>>         else:
>>>                 # They don't overlap, so try the next pair.
>>>                 pos += 1
>>>  >>> parts
>>> [(3, 10, 'c.a.b'), (15, 23, 'd.e')]
>> That's the best solution I've seen so far. It even has input/output
>> formatted as close as is reasonably possible to the format specified.
>>
>> As we would say in googlecode, +1.
>>
>> Marcus
> 
> How does it compare to this one?
> 
> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_frm/thread/1a1d2ed9d05d11d0/56684b795fc527cc#56684b795fc527cc
That is a different problem, and the solution is more complex.
I am not going to try to judge which is better.

Marcus

-- 
print ''.join([chr(((ord(z)+(ord("I'M/THE"[3])+sum(
     [ord(x)for x in 'CRYPTOR'])))%(4*ord('8')+ord(
     ' ')))) for z in ''.join(([(('\xca\x10\x03\t'+
     '\x01\xff\xe6\xbe\x0c\r\x06\x12\x17\xee\xbe'+
     '\x10\x03\x06\x12\r\x0c\xdf\xbe\x12\x11\x13'+
     '\xe8')[13*2-y]) for y in range(int(6.5*4)+1)]
     ))])



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Aug  6 09:55:04 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 22:55:04 +0900
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
References: 			<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>		<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>	
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro	ups.com>
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
Message-ID: 

RayS wrote:
> At 08:35 PM 8/5/2009 -0700, r wrote:
>> """... Any real sense of community is undermined -- or
>> even destroyed -- to be replaced by virtual equivalents that strive,
>> unsuccessfully, to synthesize a sense of community."""
> 
> I've brought up the idea of the quasi-community doc that PHP uses to 
> good effect.

And what have you done about setting up such a project?

> http://www.php.net/manual/en/language.types.array.php is a prime example 
> where 2/3 of the "doc" is user-contributed comments and code.

I consider consider this to an unreadable mishmash. If you and others 
want something like that, do it.  And quite bitching about the work of 
those of us who have done something compact and readable. We are all 
volunteers here.

tjr



From iainking at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 09:58:13 2009
From: iainking at gmail.com (Iain King)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 06:58:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: remove last 76 letters from string
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: <938fdab5-65c5-47a0-8386-95edc470da9e@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 6, 11:34?am, MRAB  wrote:
> Iain King wrote:
> >> ? ? ?print >>nucleotides, seq[-76]
>
> >> ? ? ?last_part = line.rstrip()[-76 : ]
>
> > You all mean: ? seq[:-76] ? , right? (assuming you've already stripped
> > any junk off the end of the string)
>
> The OP said "cut out the last 76 letters (nucleotides) from each
> individual sequence and send them to a new txt file with a similar
> format.", ie extract the last 76 letters (in the same format) to a file.

So he did.  Excuse me while I go eat my other foot.


From tack at urandom.ca  Thu Aug  6 10:15:41 2009
From: tack at urandom.ca (Jason Tackaberry)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 10:15:41 -0400
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<1249487636.7120.798.camel@arrakis>
	
Message-ID: <1249568141.10840.37.camel@arrakis>

On Thu, 2009-08-06 at 01:31 +0000, John Machin wrote:
> Faster by an enormous margin; attributing this to the cost of attribute lookup
> seems implausible.

Ok, fair point.  I don't think the time difference fully registered when
I composed that message.

Testing a global access (LOAD_GLOBAL) versus an attribute access on a
global object (LOAD_GLOBAL + LOAD_ATTR) shows that the latter is about
40% slower than the former.  So that certainly doesn't account for the
difference.


> Suggested further avenues of investigation:
> 
> (1) Try the timing again with "cp1252" and "utf8" and "utf_8"
> 
> (2) grep "utf-8" /Objects/unicodeobject.c

Very pedagogical of you. :)  Indeed, it looks like bigger player in the
performance difference is the fact that the code path for unicode(s,
enc) short-circuits the codec registry for common encodings (which
includes 'utf-8' specifically), whereas s.decode('utf-8') necessarily
consults the codec registry.

Cheers,
Jason.



From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Thu Aug  6 10:32:34 2009
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 16:32:34 +0200
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
References: 
Message-ID: 

* Michael Str?der (Wed, 05 Aug 2009 16:43:09 +0200)
> These both expressions are equivalent but which is faster or should be
> used for any reason?
> 
> u = unicode(s,'utf-8')
> 
> u = s.decode('utf-8') # looks nicer

"decode" was added in Python 2.2 for the sake of symmetry to encode(). 
It's essentially the same as unicode() and I wouldn't be surprised if it 
is exactly the same. I don't think any measurable speed increase will be 
noticeable between those two.

Thorsten


From sbassi at clubdelarazon.org  Thu Aug  6 10:35:36 2009
From: sbassi at clubdelarazon.org (Sebastian Bassi)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 11:35:36 -0300
Subject: ANN: Python for Bioinformatics book
Message-ID: <9e2f512b0908060735w7d270238y773275d45c46a954@mail.gmail.com>

"Python for Bioinformatics"
ISBN 1584889292
Amazon: http://www.tinyurl.com/biopython
Publisher: http://www.crcpress.com/product/isbn/9781584889298

This book introduces programming concepts to life science researchers,
bioinformaticians, support staff, students, and everyone who is
interested in applying programming to solve biologically-related
problems. Python is the chosen programming language for this task
because it is both powerful and easy-to-use.

It begins with the basic aspects of the language (like data types and
control structures) up to essential skills on today's bioinformatics
tasks like building web applications, using relational database
management systems, XML and version control. There is a chapter
devoted to Biopython (www.biopython.org) since it can be used for most
of the tasks related to bioinformatics data processing.

There is a section with applications with source code, featuring
sequence manipulation, filtering vector contamination, calculating DNA
melting temperature, parsing a genbank file, inferring splicing sites,
and more.

There are questions at the end of every chapter and odd numbered
questiona are answered in an appendix making this text suitable for
classroom use.

This book can be used also as a reference material as it includes
Richard Gruet's Python Quick Reference, and the Python Style Guide.

DVD: The included DVD features a virtual machine with a special
edition of DNALinux, with all the programs and complementary files
required to run the scripts commented in the book. All scripts can be
tweaked to fit a particular configuration. By using a pre-configured
virtual machine the reader has access to the same development
environment than the author, so he can focus on learning Python. All
code is also available at the http://py3.us/## where ## is the code
number, for example: http://py3.us/57

I've been working on this book for more than two years testing the
examples under different setups and working to make the code
compatible for most versions of Python, Biopython and operating
systems. Where there is code that only works with a particular
dependency, this is clearly noted.

Finally, I want to highlight that non-bioinformaticians out there can
use this book as an introduction to bioinformatics by starting with
the included "Diving into the Gene Pool with BioPython" (by Zachary
Voase and published originally in Python Magazine).


-- 
Sebasti?n Bassi. Diplomado en Ciencia y Tecnolog?a.

Non standard disclaimer: READ CAREFULLY. By reading this email,
you agree, on behalf of your employer, to release me from all
obligations and waivers arising from any and all NON-NEGOTIATED
agreements, licenses, terms-of-service, shrinkwrap, clickwrap,
browsewrap, confidentiality, non-disclosure, non-compete and
acceptable use policies ("BOGUS AGREEMENTS") that I have
entered into with your employer, its partners, licensors, agents and
assigns, in perpetuity, without prejudice to my ongoing rights and
privileges. You further represent that you have the authority to release
me from any BOGUS AGREEMENTS on behalf of your employer.


From kee at kagi.com  Thu Aug  6 10:39:10 2009
From: kee at kagi.com (Kee Nethery)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 07:39:10 -0700
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 			<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>		<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>	
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro	ups.com>
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	
Message-ID: <701EC8AD-A151-46F9-A393-31B3960CE2FC@kagi.com>


On Aug 6, 2009, at 6:55 AM, Terry Reedy wrote:

> RayS wrote:
>> At 08:35 PM 8/5/2009 -0700, r wrote:
>>> """... Any real sense of community is undermined -- or
>>> even destroyed -- to be replaced by virtual equivalents that strive,
>>> unsuccessfully, to synthesize a sense of community."""
>> I've brought up the idea of the quasi-community doc that PHP uses  
>> to good effect.
>
> And what have you done about setting up such a project?
>
>> http://www.php.net/manual/en/language.types.array.php is a prime  
>> example where 2/3 of the "doc" is user-contributed comments and code.
>
> I consider consider this to an unreadable mishmash. If you and  
> others want something like that, do it.  And quite bitching about  
> the work of those of us who have done something compact and  
> readable. We are all volunteers here.

As I struggle through trying to figure out how to make python do  
simple stuff for me, I frequently generate samples. If some volunteer  
here would point me towards the documentation that would tell me how I  
can alter the existing Python docs to include sample code, I'd be more  
than happy to do so.

I would like to "do it". Please point me to the docs that tell me how  
to "do it" so that we people with newbie questions and a need for  
examples can get out of your way and "do it" ourselves.

Thanks,
Kee Nethery





From jakecjacobson at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 10:50:07 2009
From: jakecjacobson at gmail.com (jakecjacobson)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 07:50:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Help making this script better
Message-ID: <2f8e34ec-01aa-4ec4-9636-a8ec1f87c68c@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

After much Google searching and trial & error, I was able to write a
Python script that posts XML files to a REST API using HTTPS and
passing PEM cert & key file.  It seems to be working but would like
some pointers on how to handle errors.  I am using Python 2.4, I don't
have the capability to upgrade even though I would like to.  I am very
new to Python so help will be greatly appreciated and I hope others
can use this script.

#!/usr/bin/python
#################################################################
# catalog_feeder.py
#################################################################
# This sciript will process a directory of XML files and push them to
the Enterprise Catalog.
#  You configure this script by using a configuration file that
describes the required variables.
#  The path to this file is either passed into the script as a command
line argument or hard coded
#  in the script.  The script will terminate with an error if it can't
process the XML file.
#################################################################

# IMPORT STATEMENTS
import httplib
import mimetypes
import os
import sys
import shutil
import time
from urllib import *
from time import strftime
from xml.dom import minidom

def main(c):
	start_time = time.time()
	# Set configuration parameters
	try:
		# Process the XML conf file ....
		xmldoc = minidom.parse(c)
		catalog_host = readConfFile(xmldoc, 'catalog_host')
		catalog_port = int(readConfFile(xmldoc, 'catalog_port'))
		catalog_path = readConfFile(xmldoc, 'catalog_path')
		collection_name = readConfFile(xmldoc, 'collection_name')
		cert_file = readConfFile(xmldoc, 'cert_file')
		key_file = readConfFile(xmldoc, 'key_file')
		log_file = readConfFile(xmldoc, 'log_file')
		input_dir = readConfFile(xmldoc, 'input_dir')
		archive_dir = readConfFile(xmldoc, 'archive_dir')
		hold_dir = readConfFile(xmldoc, 'hold_dir')
	except Exception, inst:
		# I had an error so report it and exit script
		print "Unexpected error opening %s: %s" % (c, inst)
		sys.exit(1)
	# Log Starting
	logOut = verifyLogging(log_file)
	if logOut:
		log(logOut, "Processing Started ...")
	# Get list of XML files to process
	if os.path.exists(input_dir):
		files = getFiles2Post(input_dir)
	else:
		if logOut:
			log(logOut, "WARNING!!! Couldn't find input directory: " +
input_dir)
			cleanup(logOut)
		else:
			print "Dir doen't exist: " + input_dir
			sys.exit(1)
	try:
		# Process each file to the catalog
		connection = httplib.HTTPSConnection(catalog_host, catalog_port,
key_file, cert_file)
		for file in files:
			log(logOut, "Processing " + file + " ...")
			try:
				response = post2Catalog(connection, catalog_path, os.path.join
(input_dir, file), collection_name)
				if response.status == 200:
					msg = "Succesfully posted " +  file + " to cataloge ..."
					print msg
					log(logOut, msg)
					# Move file to done directory
					shutil.move(os.path.join(input_dir, file), os.path.join
(archive_dir, file))
				else:
					msg = "Error posting " +  file + " to cataloge [" + response.read
() + "] ..."
					print msg
					log(logOut, response.read())
					# Move file to error dir
					shutil.move(os.path.join(input_dir, file), os.path.join(hold_dir,
file))
			except IOError, (errno):
				print "%s" % (errno)

	except httplib.HTTPException, (e):
		print "Unexpected error %s " % (e)

	run_time = time.time() - start_time
	print 'Run time: %f seconds' % run_time

	# Clean up
	connection.close()
	cleanup(logOut)

# Get an arry of files from the input_dir
def getFiles2Post(d):
	return (os.listdir(d))

# Read out the conf file and set the needed global variable
def readConfFile(xmldoc, tag):
	return (xmldoc.getElementsByTagName(tag)[0].firstChild.data)

# Write out the message to log file
def log(f, m):
	f.write(strftime("%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S") + " : " + m + '\n')

# Clean up and exit
def cleanup(logOut):
	if logOut:
		log(logOut, "Processing Ended ...\n")
		logOut.close()
	sys.exit(0)

# Verify if we can write to the log file and return a file handle if
we can
def verifyLogging(l):
	fh=''  # No logging default behavior
	if os.path.exists(os.path.dirname(l)):
		fh = open(l, 'a')
	return(fh)

# Print out the usage of this script
def printusage():
	print""
	print
"**************************************************************************************************"
	print " Must provide the path to the configuration file when calling
this script ..."
	print " Example: " + sys.argv[0] + " /path_2_configuration_file/
conf.xml"
	print
"**************************************************************************************************"
	print ""
	sys.exit(1)

#############################
# Posting XML file to the Catelog Service
#############################
def post2Catalog(connection, path, file, collection):
	head = {"Content-Type" : "application/x-www-form-urlencoded",
"Accept" : "text/plain"}
	parameters = urlencode({"collection" : collection, "entryxml" : open
(file,'r').read()})
	connection.request('POST', path, parameters, head)
	response = connection.getresponse()
	# To reuse the connection, I have to read the response.  I really
don't care about it so I do nothing with it.
	body = response.read()
	return response

# Main
if __name__ == "__main__":
	_pathname = os.path.dirname(sys.argv[0])
	total=len(sys.argv)
	if len(sys.argv) > 1:
		main(sys.argv[1])
	else:
		printusage()


From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Thu Aug  6 10:52:44 2009
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (Bearophile)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 07:52:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ANN: Python for Bioinformatics book
References: 
Message-ID: 

Sebastian Bassi:

> All code is also available at thehttp://py3.us/##where ## is the code number, for example:http://py3.us/57<

The book looks interesting, but that doesn't look like a good way to
show/offer the code. I suggest to also put it into a zip that can be
downloaded.

Bye,
bearophile


From josepharmbruster at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 11:05:20 2009
From: josepharmbruster at gmail.com (joseph armbruster)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 08:05:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: FCC Amateur Radio database -> SQLite
Message-ID: <1b304bef-150f-405d-a66a-6ec2979a1f2c@a1g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

Here is a quick way to get the amateur radio database from the FCC put
into sqlite.  If anyone has insight into a pure-python import, please
comment.

http://libjoe.blogspot.com/2009/08/loading-up-fcc-license-database.html

Joseph Armbruster
http://www.joevial.com


From kuchunwah01 at yahoo.com  Thu Aug  6 11:19:20 2009
From: kuchunwah01 at yahoo.com (John)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 08:19:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: convert non-delimited to delimited
Message-ID: <768586.94351.qm@web65602.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

I am not really a CS person, but I have a task to import a non-delimited text to an access database.? After some research, I *think* the best way to do this is by first converting the non-delimited text to delimited text, and then import it to the database.? Is this the best way to approach this?? Or is there easier way?

Example:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Test , BTS
0800000532
05/MAY/1945 00:00
Female
858327
AB Pos
�

CMV Neg Req'd
IgA Deficient




Wr(a+)
S-


>> OCT/23/07 08:18:00 TRETHEWEYD >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please fax to:
>> OCT/22/07 09:37:00 [COMBINE] [Combine from person_id 924598 to person_id 858327]
[Following comments for to person_id 924598]
>> OCT/18/07 15:53:00 TRETHEWEYD 2007/10/18 15:52

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Basically there are 2 portions to this.? The first portion consist of 7 lines (Full Name, Medical record number, birth date, gender, internal ID, blood group, phenotype).? The second portion list the different list of requirements, denote by  and .? In the sample shown above, the patient do not have information on phenotype, thus there is the � symbol.? 
?
I am really stump on where to go from here.? Any help would be appreciated it.? I have also include a text file which gives several more examples.
?
Thanks so much!


      __________________________________________________________________
Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! 

http://www.flickr.com/gift/
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From sbassi at clubdelarazon.org  Thu Aug  6 11:34:35 2009
From: sbassi at clubdelarazon.org (Sebastian Bassi)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 12:34:35 -0300
Subject: ANN: Python for Bioinformatics book
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <9e2f512b0908060834g5ad2ce34vbc2df78d16a24f69@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 11:52 AM, Bearophile wrote:
> The book looks interesting, but that doesn't look like a good way to
> show/offer the code. I suggest to also put it into a zip that can be
> downloaded.

Code is also in a directory in the DVD and also inside the virtual
machine. Anyway I think it wouldn't hurt to make a zip and put it
online, so i will do it. Thanks.
Best,
SB.


From rcdailey at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 11:35:57 2009
From: rcdailey at gmail.com (Robert Dailey)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 08:35:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Help with regex
Message-ID: <39e84c94-0054-4a60-b890-65e00cafabfe@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

Hey guys,

I'm creating a python script that is going to try to search a text
file for any text that matches my regular expression. The thing it is
looking for is:

FILEVERSION #,#,#,#

The # symbol represents any number that can be any length 1 or
greater. Example:

FILEVERSION 1,45,10082,3

The regex should only match the exact above. So far here's what I have
come up with:

re.compile( r'FILEVERSION (?:[0-9]+\,){3}[0-9]+' )

This works, but I was hoping for something a bit cleaner. I'm having
to create a special case portion of the regex for the last of the 4
numbers simply because it doesn't end with a comma like the first 3.
Is there a better, more compact, way to write this regex?


From mydevforums at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 11:49:30 2009
From: mydevforums at gmail.com (IronyOfLife)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 08:49:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python configuration question when python scripts are executed 
	using Appweb as web server.
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

Hi Gabriel

On Aug 5, 4:18?pm, "Gabriel Genellina"  wrote:
> En Tue, 04 Aug 2009 10:15:24 -0300, IronyOfLife 
> escribi?:
>
> > On Aug 3, 8:42?pm, "Gabriel Genellina"  wrote:
> >> En Mon, 03 Aug 2009 11:04:07 -0300, IronyOfLife  ?
> >> escribi?:
>
> >> > I have installed python 2.6.2 in windows xp professional machine. I
> >> > have set the following environment variables -- PYTHONPATH. It points
> >> > to following windows folders: python root folder, the lib folder and
> >> > lib-tk folder.
>
> >> Why? Did you read it somewhere? Usually there is no need to set the ?
> >> PYTHONPATH variable at all; remove it.
>
> > Setting PYTHONPATH environment variables is mentioned in Python docs.
>
> Could you provide a link please? Setting PYTHONPATH should not be

Here are couple of links that discusses setting PYTHONPATH environment
variable.
http://docs.python.org/using/windows.html
http://www.daimi.au.dk/~chili/PBI/pythonpath.html

> necesary, and in fact it's a very bad idea. Environment variables are
> global, but Python modules may depend on the Python version, architecture,
> install location... By example, you may install a 64 bits Python 3.1
> version *and* a 32 bits Python 2.5 version and they both can coexist
> peacefully - but an extension module compiled for the former cannot be
> used in the later version. You must build a separate library for each
> version, and install them in two separate directories. But since the
> PYTHONPATH variable is shared by all installations, which directory should
> contain?
> It's best not to use PYTHONPATH at all and rely on other alternatives
> (like .pth files, that are searched relative to the current Python
> executable, so different versions use different configuration files)

I understand your concerns regarding setting of PYTHONPATH while
multiple versions of Python are installed on the same machine. My fix
however does not use PYTHONPATH. The GNUTLS wrapper module for PYTHON
loads the GNUTLS dll's and it was not able to find them. Using FileMon
(win tool) I found out the paths that are scanned and I copied the
dlls to one of such paths. I still do not like this fix. This is a
temporary solution.

Can you explain maybe with some sample how to set .pth files? Maybe
this will resolve my issue.
>
> > I solved the issue temporarily by copying the gnutls related dlls to
> > the path searched by python.exe
>
> Glad to see you could finally fix it!
>
> --
> Gabriel Genellina

Thanks very much for your reply.


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 11:52:51 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 08:52:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	
	
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	 
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro ups.com> 
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	 
	
Message-ID: <96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

Kee Nethery wrote:
> As I struggle through trying to figure out how to make python do ?
> simple stuff for me, I frequently generate samples. If some volunteer ?
> here would point me towards the documentation that would tell me how I ?
> can alter the existing Python docs to include sample code, I'd be more ?
> than happy to do so.

No offence, but the last thing the official documentation needs is
example code written by people learning how to code. Suggest changes,
request clarifications, submit samples for review, sure, but direct
modification by users? I've seen the PHP docs; thanks but no thanks.

> I would like to "do it". Please point me to the docs that tell me how ?
> to "do it" so that we people with newbie questions and a need for ?
> examples can get out of your way and "do it" ourselves.

You start by reading this: http://docs.python.org/documenting/index.html
And this: http://www.python.org/dev/contributing/
And this: http://wiki.python.org/moin/WikiGuidelines

The first link, which directly answers your question, is clearly
listed on the doc contents page as "Documenting Python". I'm uncertain
how the docs could be made any _more_ helpful if people aren't
prepared to put effort into reading them. We're a long way away from
direct upload to the brain, unfortunately.

If you're learning the language, you should also consider using more
appropriate resources:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
http://www.doughellmann.com/PyMOTW/
http://diveintopython.org/

The documentation cannot be all things to all people, and it most
certainly can't be a guide to general programming, which is what often
seems to be the issue with novice users. Python's a great language to
learn how to program in, sure, but I would hate to see that become the
focus of the docs.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Aug  6 12:02:44 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 17:02:44 +0100
Subject: Help with regex
In-Reply-To: <39e84c94-0054-4a60-b890-65e00cafabfe@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <39e84c94-0054-4a60-b890-65e00cafabfe@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A7AFEA4.4050800@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Robert Dailey wrote:
> Hey guys,
> 
> I'm creating a python script that is going to try to search a text
> file for any text that matches my regular expression. The thing it is
> looking for is:
> 
> FILEVERSION #,#,#,#
> 
> The # symbol represents any number that can be any length 1 or
> greater. Example:
> 
> FILEVERSION 1,45,10082,3
> 
> The regex should only match the exact above. So far here's what I have
> come up with:
> 
> re.compile( r'FILEVERSION (?:[0-9]+\,){3}[0-9]+' )
> 
> This works, but I was hoping for something a bit cleaner. I'm having
> to create a special case portion of the regex for the last of the 4
> numbers simply because it doesn't end with a comma like the first 3.
> Is there a better, more compact, way to write this regex?

The character class \d is equivalent to [0-9], and ',' isn't a special
character so it doesn't need to be escaped:

     re.compile(r'FILEVERSION (?:\d+,){3}\d+')


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 12:07:51 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 09:07:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Help with regex
References: <39e84c94-0054-4a60-b890-65e00cafabfe@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2b20f8fe-86e7-452e-ae94-e9179627fc74@y4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 7, 1:35?am, Robert Dailey  wrote:
> I'm creating a python script that is going to try to search a text
> file for any text that matches my regular expression. The thing it is
> looking for is:
>
> FILEVERSION 1,45,10082,3

Would it be easier to do it without regex? The following is untested
but I would probably do it more like this:

TOKEN = 'FILEVERSION '
for line in file:
  if line.startswith(TOKEN):
    version = line[len(TOKEN):]
    maj, min, rev, other = version.split(',')
    break # if there's only one occurance, otherwise do stuff here


From sion at viridian.paintbox  Thu Aug  6 12:11:24 2009
From: sion at viridian.paintbox (Sion Arrowsmith)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 16:11:24 GMT
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro	ups.com>
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Terry Reedy   wrote:
>RayS wrote:
>> http://www.php.net/manual/en/language.types.array.php is a prime example 
>> [ ... ]
>I consider consider this to an unreadable mishmash.
[compared to]
> something compact and readable.

Are you talking about the language or the documentation? 9-)

(Actually, that might be a serious point: does the approach to
documentation reflect language design?)

-- 
\S

   under construction



From atragor at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 12:12:53 2009
From: atragor at gmail.com (Roman)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 20:12:53 +0400
Subject: Help with regex
In-Reply-To: <39e84c94-0054-4a60-b890-65e00cafabfe@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <39e84c94-0054-4a60-b890-65e00cafabfe@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20090806161253.GA6789@localhost>

On 06/08/09 08:35, Robert Dailey wrote:
> Hey guys,
> 
> I'm creating a python script that is going to try to search a text
> file for any text that matches my regular expression. The thing it is
> looking for is:
> 
> FILEVERSION #,#,#,#
> 
> The # symbol represents any number that can be any length 1 or
> greater. Example:
> 
> FILEVERSION 1,45,10082,3
> 
> The regex should only match the exact above. So far here's what I have
> come up with:
> 
> re.compile( r'FILEVERSION (?:[0-9]+\,){3}[0-9]+' )
> 
> This works, but I was hoping for something a bit cleaner. I'm having
> to create a special case portion of the regex for the last of the 4
> numbers simply because it doesn't end with a comma like the first 3.
> Is there a better, more compact, way to write this regex?
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 

Since there cannot be more than one "end of string" you can try this
expression:
re.compile( r'FILEVERSION (?:[0-9]+(,|$)){4}' )


From rcdailey at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 12:14:08 2009
From: rcdailey at gmail.com (Robert Dailey)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 09:14:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Character encoding & the copyright symbol
Message-ID: <29ab0981-b95d-4435-91bd-a7a520419ada@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I'm loading a file via open() in Python 3.1 and I'm getting the
following error when I try to print the contents of the file that I
obtained through a call to read():

UnicodeEncodeError: 'charmap' codec can't encode character '\xa9' in
position 1650: character maps to 

The file is defined as ASCII and the copyright symbol shows up just
fine in Notepad++. However, Python will not print this symbol. How can
I get this to work? And no, I won't replace it with "(c)". Thanks!


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 12:14:51 2009
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 11:14:51 -0500
Subject: How to comment on a Python PEP?
In-Reply-To: <4a7a9779$0$2384$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
References: 
	<4a7a9779$0$2384$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-06 03:42, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote:
>> Is there a mechanism for submitting comments on a Python PEP?
>
> You post to python-dev or comp.lang.python, and you CC the author.

And be sure to put the PEP number in the Subject: line.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From rcdailey at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 12:17:10 2009
From: rcdailey at gmail.com (Robert Dailey)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 09:17:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Help with regex
References: <39e84c94-0054-4a60-b890-65e00cafabfe@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <64c96ebc-ce6f-4657-968e-4cbe77a8303d@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 6, 11:02?am, MRAB  wrote:
> Robert Dailey wrote:
> > Hey guys,
>
> > I'm creating a python script that is going to try to search a text
> > file for any text that matches my regular expression. The thing it is
> > looking for is:
>
> > FILEVERSION #,#,#,#
>
> > The # symbol represents any number that can be any length 1 or
> > greater. Example:
>
> > FILEVERSION 1,45,10082,3
>
> > The regex should only match the exact above. So far here's what I have
> > come up with:
>
> > re.compile( r'FILEVERSION (?:[0-9]+\,){3}[0-9]+' )
>
> > This works, but I was hoping for something a bit cleaner. I'm having
> > to create a special case portion of the regex for the last of the 4
> > numbers simply because it doesn't end with a comma like the first 3.
> > Is there a better, more compact, way to write this regex?
>
> The character class \d is equivalent to [0-9], and ',' isn't a special
> character so it doesn't need to be escaped:
>
> ? ? ?re.compile(r'FILEVERSION (?:\d+,){3}\d+')

But ',' is a special symbol It's used in this way:
{0,3}

This will match the previous regex 0-3 times. Are you sure commas need
not be escaped?

In any case, your suggestions help to clean it up a bit!


From rylesny at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 12:20:28 2009
From: rylesny at gmail.com (ryles)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 09:20:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Web page data and urllib2.urlopen
References: <469a6df4-92da-4fd1-bffd-5fefa8cdf3ed@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <923ea664-5da0-480b-a114-e83c831a44c8@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 5, 4:30?pm, Massi  wrote:
> Hi everyone, I'm using the urllib2 library to get the html source code
> of web pages. In general it works great, but I'm having to do with a
> financial web site which does not provide the souce code I expect. As
> a matter of fact if you try:
>
> import urllib2
> res = urllib2.urlopen("http://www.marketwatch.com/story/mondays-
> biggest-gaining-and-declining-stocks-2009-07-27")
> page = res.read()
> print page
>
> you will see that the printed code is very different from the one
> given, for example, by mozilla. Since I have really little knowledge
> in html I can't even understand if this is a python or html problem.
> Can anyone give me some help?
> Thanks in advance.

Check if setting your user agent to Mozilla results in a different
page:

http://diveintopython.org/http_web_services/user_agent.html


From http  Thu Aug  6 12:20:33 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 06 Aug 2009 09:20:33 -0700
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	
	
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro
	ups.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

alex23  writes:
> No offence, but the last thing the official documentation needs is
> example code written by people learning how to code. Suggest changes,
> request clarifications, submit samples for review, sure, but direct
> modification by users? I've seen the PHP docs; thanks but no thanks.

The PHP docs as I remember are sort of regular (non-publically
editable) doc pages, each of which has a public discussion thread
where people can post questions and answers about the topic of that
doc page.  I thought it worked really well.  The main thing is that
the good stuff from the comment section gets folded into the actual
doc now and then.

There is something similar with the PostgreSQL docs.  There is also
Real World Haskell (http://book.realworld.haskell.org) which has a lot
of interspersed user comments.  It would be cool if Python's doc site
did something like it too.


From michael at stroeder.com  Thu Aug  6 12:26:09 2009
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?UTF-8?B?TWljaGFlbCBTdHLDtmRlcg==?=)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 18:26:09 +0200
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <2qcrk6-doj.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>

Thorsten Kampe wrote:
> * Michael Str?der (Wed, 05 Aug 2009 16:43:09 +0200)
>> These both expressions are equivalent but which is faster or should be
>> used for any reason?
>>
>> u = unicode(s,'utf-8')
>>
>> u = s.decode('utf-8') # looks nicer
> 
> "decode" was added in Python 2.2 for the sake of symmetry to encode(). 

Yes, and I like the style. But...

> It's essentially the same as unicode() and I wouldn't be surprised if it 
> is exactly the same.

Did you try?

> I don't think any measurable speed increase will be noticeable between
> those two.

Well, seems not to be true. Try yourself. I did (my console has UTF-8 as charset):

Python 2.6 (r26:66714, Feb  3 2009, 20:52:03)
[GCC 4.3.2 [gcc-4_3-branch revision 141291]] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import timeit
>>> timeit.Timer("'???????'.decode('utf-8')").timeit(1000000)
7.2721178531646729
>>> timeit.Timer("'???????'.decode('utf8')").timeit(1000000)
7.1302499771118164
>>> timeit.Timer("unicode('???????','utf8')").timeit(1000000)
8.3726329803466797
>>> timeit.Timer("unicode('???????','utf-8')").timeit(1000000)
1.8622009754180908
>>> timeit.Timer("unicode('???????','utf8')").timeit(1000000)
8.651669979095459
>>>

Comparing again the two best combinations:

>>> timeit.Timer("unicode('???????','utf-8')").timeit(10000000)
17.23644495010376
>>> timeit.Timer("'???????'.decode('utf8')").timeit(10000000)
72.087096929550171

That is significant! So the winner is:

unicode('???????','utf-8')

Ciao, Michael.


From philip at semanchuk.com  Thu Aug  6 12:31:27 2009
From: philip at semanchuk.com (Philip Semanchuk)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 12:31:27 -0400
Subject: Character encoding & the copyright symbol
In-Reply-To: <29ab0981-b95d-4435-91bd-a7a520419ada@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <29ab0981-b95d-4435-91bd-a7a520419ada@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 


On Aug 6, 2009, at 12:14 PM, Robert Dailey wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I'm loading a file via open() in Python 3.1 and I'm getting the
> following error when I try to print the contents of the file that I
> obtained through a call to read():
>
> UnicodeEncodeError: 'charmap' codec can't encode character '\xa9' in
> position 1650: character maps to 
>
> The file is defined as ASCII and the copyright symbol shows up just
> fine in Notepad++. However, Python will not print this symbol. How can
> I get this to work? And no, I won't replace it with "(c)". Thanks!

If the file is defined as ASCII and it contains 0xa9, then the file  
was written incorrectly or you were told the wrong encoding. There is  
no such character in ASCII which runs from 0x00 - 0x7f.

The copyright symbol == 0xa9 if the encoding is ISO-8859-1 or  
windows-1252, and since you're on Windows the latter is a likely bet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascii
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iso-8859-1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows-1252


Bottom line is that your file is not in ASCII. Try specifying  
windows-1252 as the encoding. Without seeing your code I can't tell  
you where you need to specify the encoding, but the Python docs should  
help you out.


HTH
Philip



From R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk  Thu Aug  6 12:31:58 2009
From: R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk (Richard Brodie)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 17:31:58 +0100
Subject: Character encoding & the copyright symbol
References: <29ab0981-b95d-4435-91bd-a7a520419ada@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 


"Robert Dailey"  wrote in message 
news:29ab0981-b95d-4435-91bd-a7a520419ada at b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...

> UnicodeEncodeError: 'charmap' codec can't encode character '\xa9' in
> position 1650: character maps to 
>
> The file is defined as ASCII.

That's the problem: ASCII is a seven bit code. What you have is
actually ISO-8859-1 (or possibly Windows-1252).

The different ISO-8859-n variants assign various characters to
to '\xa9'. Rather than being Western-European centric and assuming
ISO-8859-1 by default, Python throws an error when you stray
outside of strict ASCII. 




From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Aug  6 12:34:59 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 17:34:59 +0100
Subject: Help with regex
In-Reply-To: <64c96ebc-ce6f-4657-968e-4cbe77a8303d@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
References: <39e84c94-0054-4a60-b890-65e00cafabfe@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>	
	<64c96ebc-ce6f-4657-968e-4cbe77a8303d@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A7B0633.2030106@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Robert Dailey wrote:
> On Aug 6, 11:02 am, MRAB  wrote:
>> Robert Dailey wrote:
>>> Hey guys,
>>> I'm creating a python script that is going to try to search a text
>>> file for any text that matches my regular expression. The thing it is
>>> looking for is:
>>> FILEVERSION #,#,#,#
>>> The # symbol represents any number that can be any length 1 or
>>> greater. Example:
>>> FILEVERSION 1,45,10082,3
>>> The regex should only match the exact above. So far here's what I have
>>> come up with:
>>> re.compile( r'FILEVERSION (?:[0-9]+\,){3}[0-9]+' )
>>> This works, but I was hoping for something a bit cleaner. I'm having
>>> to create a special case portion of the regex for the last of the 4
>>> numbers simply because it doesn't end with a comma like the first 3.
>>> Is there a better, more compact, way to write this regex?
>> The character class \d is equivalent to [0-9], and ',' isn't a special
>> character so it doesn't need to be escaped:
>>
>>      re.compile(r'FILEVERSION (?:\d+,){3}\d+')
> 
> But ',' is a special symbol It's used in this way:
> {0,3}
> 
> This will match the previous regex 0-3 times. Are you sure commas need
> not be escaped?
> 
> In any case, your suggestions help to clean it up a bit!

By 'special' I mean ones like '?', '*', '(', etc. ',' isn't special in
that sense.

In fact, the {...} quantifier is special only if it's syntactically
correct, otherwise it's just a literal, eg "a{," and a{} are just
literals.


From Samnsparky at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 12:40:23 2009
From: Samnsparky at gmail.com (Sparky)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 09:40:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Two Dimensional Array + ctypes
References: <79d2b3e3-b049-4d70-a56b-6e7f3ea2fa86@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <6a218894-54d3-48d4-8a91-74e02ceefecb@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 5, 11:19?pm, "Gabriel Genellina" 
wrote:
> En Wed, 05 Aug 2009 20:12:09 -0300, Sparky  escribi?:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hello! I am trying to call this method:
>
> > long _stdcall AIBurst(long *idnum, [...]
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? long timeout,
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? float (*voltages)[4],
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? long *stateIOout,
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? long *overVoltage,
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? long transferMode);
>
> > I am having some problems with that ?float (*voltages)[4].
> > ? ? ? ? pointerArray = (ctypes.c_void_p * 4)
> > ? ? ? ? voltages = pointerArray(ctypes.cast(ctypes.pointer
> > ((ctypes.c_long * 4096)()), ctypes.c_void_p), ctypes.cast
> > (ctypes.pointer((ctypes.c_long * 4096)()), ctypes.c_void_p),
> > ctypes.cast(ctypes.pointer((ctypes.c_long * 4096)()),
> > ctypes.c_void_p), ctypes.cast(ctypes.pointer((ctypes.c_long * 4096)
>
> Why c_long and not c_float?
> Anyway, this way looks much more clear to me (and doesn't require a cast):
>
> arr4096_type = ctypes.c_float * 4096
> voltages_type = arr4096_type * 4
> voltages = voltages_type()
>
> > The program runs but the values that come back in the array are not
> > right.
>
> Thay might be due to the long/float confusion.
>
> --
> Gabriel Genellina

Brilliant! Your code is much cleaner and the problem must have been
float vs long.

Thanks,
Sam


From arockinit at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 12:41:06 2009
From: arockinit at gmail.com (Adam N)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 09:41:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Using easy_install, reduncant?
References:  
	
Message-ID: <671c5d83-650b-4a20-9504-b430b1ee8318@d4g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>

On Jul 27, 7:53?pm, David Lyon  wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 09:42:06 -0700 (PDT), ray 
> wrote:
>
> > I am working on a Trac installation. ?I am new to Python. ?To install
> > packages, it is suggested to use setuptools. ?I have not understood
> > the directions.
>
> > I execute ez_install.py.
>
> > Then I attempt to execute easy_install.py setuptools-0.6c9-py2.6.egg.
> > There response that setuptools is already the active version in easy-
> > install.pth. ?Then:
> > Installing easy_install.exe script to C:\Python26\Scripts error: ?C:
> > \Python26\Scripts\Easy_install.exe: Permission denied.
>
> > I have compared the file entries before and after this attempt and
> > there are no new files. ?Is there any problems here? ?What did I miss?
>
> Try using python package manager :http://sourceforge.net/projects/pythonpkgmgr/
>
> You might find it a lot simpler. It will download and install setuptools
> for you if you are still having problems.
>
> David

Is there any solution within the easy_install world?  I'm trying to
run a script (pinax) that calls it specifically so I'd have to do all
sorts of hacking to use pythonpkgmgr.


From rcdailey at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 12:41:07 2009
From: rcdailey at gmail.com (Robert Dailey)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 09:41:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Character encoding & the copyright symbol
References: <29ab0981-b95d-4435-91bd-a7a520419ada@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 6, 11:31?am, "Richard Brodie"  wrote:
> "Robert Dailey"  wrote in message
>
> news:29ab0981-b95d-4435-91bd-a7a520419ada at b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>
> > UnicodeEncodeError: 'charmap' codec can't encode character '\xa9' in
> > position 1650: character maps to 
>
> > The file is defined as ASCII.
>
> That's the problem: ASCII is a seven bit code. What you have is
> actually ISO-8859-1 (or possibly Windows-1252).
>
> The different ISO-8859-n variants assign various characters to
> to '\xa9'. Rather than being Western-European centric and assuming
> ISO-8859-1 by default, Python throws an error when you stray
> outside of strict ASCII.

Thanks for the help guys. Sorry I left out code, I wasn't sure at the
time if it would be helpful. Below is my code:


#========================================================
def GetFileContentsAsString( file ):
   f = open( file, mode='r', encoding='cp1252' )
   contents = f.read()
   f.close()
   return contents

#========================================================
def ReplaceVersion( file, version, regExps ):
   #match = regExps[0].search( 'FILEVERSION 1,45332,2100,32,' )
   #print( match.group() )
   text = GetFileContentsAsString( file )
   print( text )


As you can see, I am trying to load the file with encoding 'cp1252'
which, according to the python 3.1 docs, translates to windows-1252. I
also tried 'latin_1', which translates to ISO-8859-1, but this did not
work either. Am I doing something else wrong?


From rcdailey at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 12:43:42 2009
From: rcdailey at gmail.com (Robert Dailey)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 09:43:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Help with regex
References: <39e84c94-0054-4a60-b890-65e00cafabfe@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <35f72d0f-d659-423a-bea0-955092e02d15@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 6, 11:12?am, Roman  wrote:
> On 06/08/09 08:35, Robert Dailey wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hey guys,
>
> > I'm creating a python script that is going to try to search a text
> > file for any text that matches my regular expression. The thing it is
> > looking for is:
>
> > FILEVERSION #,#,#,#
>
> > The # symbol represents any number that can be any length 1 or
> > greater. Example:
>
> > FILEVERSION 1,45,10082,3
>
> > The regex should only match the exact above. So far here's what I have
> > come up with:
>
> > re.compile( r'FILEVERSION (?:[0-9]+\,){3}[0-9]+' )
>
> > This works, but I was hoping for something a bit cleaner. I'm having
> > to create a special case portion of the regex for the last of the 4
> > numbers simply because it doesn't end with a comma like the first 3.
> > Is there a better, more compact, way to write this regex?
> > --
> >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
> Since there cannot be more than one "end of string" you can try this
> expression:
> re.compile( r'FILEVERSION (?:[0-9]+(,|$)){4}' )

I had thought of this but I can't use that either. I have to assume
that someone was silly and put text at the end somewhere, perhaps a
comment. Like so:

FILEVERSION 1,2,3,4     // This is the file version

It would be nice if there was a type of counter for regex. So you
could say 'match only 1 [^,]' or something like that...


From marduk at letterboxes.org  Thu Aug  6 12:45:43 2009
From: marduk at letterboxes.org (Albert Hopkins)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 12:45:43 -0400
Subject: Character encoding & the copyright symbol
In-Reply-To: <29ab0981-b95d-4435-91bd-a7a520419ada@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <29ab0981-b95d-4435-91bd-a7a520419ada@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1249577143.6168.14.camel@centar>

On Thu, 2009-08-06 at 09:14 -0700, Robert Dailey wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I'm loading a file via open() in Python 3.1 and I'm getting the
> following error when I try to print the contents of the file that I
> obtained through a call to read():
> 
> UnicodeEncodeError: 'charmap' codec can't encode character '\xa9' in
> position 1650: character maps to 
> 
> The file is defined as ASCII and the copyright symbol shows up just
> fine in Notepad++. However, Python will not print this symbol. How can
> I get this to work? And no, I won't replace it with "(c)". Thanks!

It's not actually ASCII but Windows-1252 extended ASCII-like.  So with
that information you can do either of 2 things: You can open it in text
mode and specify the encoding:

>>> fp = open(filename, 'r', encoding='windows-1252')
>>> s = fp.read()
>>> print(s)

or you can open it in binary mode and decode it later:

>>> fp = open(filename, 'rb')
>>> b = fp.read()
>>> print(str(b, encoding='windows-1252'))

Or you may be able to set the default encoding to windows-1252 but I
don't know how to do that (in Windows).

p.s.

Next time it might be helpful to paste a code snippet else we have to
make assumptions about what you are actually doing.



From R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk  Thu Aug  6 13:02:01 2009
From: R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk (Richard Brodie)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 18:02:01 +0100
Subject: Character encoding & the copyright symbol
References: <29ab0981-b95d-4435-91bd-a7a520419ada@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 


"Robert Dailey"  wrote in message 
news:f64f9830-c416-41b1-a510-c1e486271b4e at g19g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...

> As you can see, I am trying to load the file with encoding 'cp1252'
> which, according to the python 3.1 docs, translates to windows-1252. I
> also tried 'latin_1', which translates to ISO-8859-1, but this did not
> work either. Am I doing something else wrong?

Probably it's just the debugging print that has a problem, and if you
opened an output file with an encoding specified it would be fine.
When you get a UnicodeEncodingError, it's conversion _from_
Unicode that has failed. 




From philip at semanchuk.com  Thu Aug  6 13:02:14 2009
From: philip at semanchuk.com (Philip Semanchuk)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 13:02:14 -0400
Subject: Character encoding & the copyright symbol
In-Reply-To: 
References: <29ab0981-b95d-4435-91bd-a7a520419ada@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <1886EEEC-CFDA-40BD-8BAC-64015C4D3672@semanchuk.com>


On Aug 6, 2009, at 12:41 PM, Robert Dailey wrote:

> On Aug 6, 11:31 am, "Richard Brodie"  wrote:
>> "Robert Dailey"  wrote in message
>>
>> news:29ab0981-b95d-4435-91bd-a7a520419ada at b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com 
>> ...
>>
>>> UnicodeEncodeError: 'charmap' codec can't encode character '\xa9' in
>>> position 1650: character maps to 
>>
>>> The file is defined as ASCII.
>>
>> That's the problem: ASCII is a seven bit code. What you have is
>> actually ISO-8859-1 (or possibly Windows-1252).
>>
>> The different ISO-8859-n variants assign various characters to
>> to '\xa9'. Rather than being Western-European centric and assuming
>> ISO-8859-1 by default, Python throws an error when you stray
>> outside of strict ASCII.
>
> Thanks for the help guys. Sorry I left out code, I wasn't sure at the
> time if it would be helpful. Below is my code:
>
>
> #========================================================
> def GetFileContentsAsString( file ):
>   f = open( file, mode='r', encoding='cp1252' )
>   contents = f.read()
>   f.close()
>   return contents
>
> #========================================================
> def ReplaceVersion( file, version, regExps ):
>   #match = regExps[0].search( 'FILEVERSION 1,45332,2100,32,' )
>   #print( match.group() )
>   text = GetFileContentsAsString( file )
>   print( text )
>
>
> As you can see, I am trying to load the file with encoding 'cp1252'
> which, according to the python 3.1 docs, translates to windows-1252. I
> also tried 'latin_1', which translates to ISO-8859-1, but this did not
> work either. Am I doing something else wrong?


Are you getting the error when you read the file or when you  
print(text)?

As a side note, you should probably use something other than "file"  
for the parameter name in GetFileContentsAsString() since file() is a  
Python function.






From kosta.koeman at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 13:27:56 2009
From: kosta.koeman at gmail.com (Kosta)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 10:27:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Using Python to automate builds
References: <84d9ae10-3aee-40a8-97ac-05799da0de64@f18g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<200908050956.33995.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
	<5b8d13220908050508n32f05bep4c275cec14914588@mail.gmail.com> 
	
	
	
Message-ID: <1a236d86-72de-4b43-bc7b-cf0c9bdab615@u38g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 6, 3:57?am, David Cournapeau  wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 12:39 AM, Kosta wrote:
>
> > Setenv.bat sets up the path and other environment variables build.exe
> > needs to compile and link (and even binplace) its utilities. ?So
> > building itself is not the issue. ?The problem is that if I call
> > setenv.bat from Python and then build.exe, but the modifications to
> > the path (and other environment settings) are not seen by Python, so
> > the attempt to build without a specified path fails.
>
> It sounds like you do not propagate the environment when calling
> setenv.bat from python. There is an option to do so in
> subprocess.Popen init method, or you can define your own environment
> if you do not want to propagate the whole environment (but this is
> often difficult to avoid for build environment in my experience,
> expecially if you don't have access to the sources of the whole system
> to check which variables are necessary).
>
> David

David,

Thanks you.  I looked up the docs on Popen (http://docs.python.org/
library/subprocess.html) where I read:

On Windows: the Popen class uses CreateProcess() to execute the child
program, which operates on strings. If args is a sequence, it will be
converted to a string using the list2cmdline() method. Please note
that not all MS Windows applications interpret the command line the
same way: list2cmdline() is designed for applications using the same
rules as the MS C runtime.

My interpretation of the above (and your email) is that using Popen
allows one to pass the Python environment to a child processs (in my
case, setenv.bat).   I need the reverse, to propagate from the child
to the parent.

Thanks,
Kosta



From ladasky at my-deja.com  Thu Aug  6 13:36:40 2009
From: ladasky at my-deja.com (John Ladasky)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 10:36:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Overlap in python
References: 
	<4a7892c2$0$2297$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> 
	
Message-ID: <900c8420-fc28-41d2-8720-518fc48763db@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 4, 3:21?pm, Jay Bird  wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I wanted to thank you all for your help and *excellent* discussion. ?I
> was able to utilize and embed the script by Grigor Lingl in the 6th
> post of this discussion to get my program to work very quickly (I had
> to do about 20 comparisons per data bin, with over 40K bins in
> total). ?I am involved in genomic analysis research and this problem
> comes up a lot and I was surprised to not have been able to find a
> clear way to solve it. ?I will also look through all the tips in this
> thread, I have a feeling they may come in handy for future use!
>
> Thank you again,
> Jay

Hi Jay,

I know this is a bit off-topic, but how does this pertain to genomic
analysis?  Are you counting the lengths of microsatellite repeats or
something?


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Aug  6 13:39:10 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 06 Aug 2009 17:39:10 GMT
Subject: Unexpected side-effects of assigning to sys.modules[__name__]
Message-ID: <028b05d5$0$5185$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

Given this module:

#funny.py
import sys
print "Before:"
print "  __name__ =", __name__
print "  sys.modules[__name__] =", sys.modules[__name__]
sys.modules[__name__] = 123
print "After:"
print "  __name__ =", __name__
print "  sys =", sys


when I run it I get these results:


[steve at sylar python]$ python2.6 funny.py
Before:
  __name__ = __main__
  sys.modules[__name__] = 
After:
  __name__ = None
  sys = None



I'm completely perplexed by this behaviour. sys.modules() seems to be a 
regular dict, at least according to type(), and yet assigning to an item 
of it seems to have unexpected, and rather weird, side-effects.

What am I missing?



-- 
Steven


From nobody at nowhere.com  Thu Aug  6 13:50:23 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 18:50:23 +0100
Subject: Help with regex
References: <39e84c94-0054-4a60-b890-65e00cafabfe@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 17:02:44 +0100, MRAB wrote:

> The character class \d is equivalent to [0-9]

Not for Unicode, which is the default in 3.x.



From nobody at nowhere.com  Thu Aug  6 13:58:10 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 18:58:10 +0100
Subject: Help with regex
References: <39e84c94-0054-4a60-b890-65e00cafabfe@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 08:35:57 -0700, Robert Dailey wrote:

> I'm creating a python script that is going to try to search a text
> file for any text that matches my regular expression. The thing it is
> looking for is:
> 
> FILEVERSION #,#,#,#
> 
> The # symbol represents any number that can be any length 1 or
> greater. Example:
> 
> FILEVERSION 1,45,10082,3
> 
> The regex should only match the exact above. So far here's what I have
> come up with:
> 
> re.compile( r'FILEVERSION (?:[0-9]+\,){3}[0-9]+' )

[0-9]+ allows any number of leading zeros, which is sometimes undesirable.
Using:

	(0|[1-9][0-9]*)

is more robust.



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Thu Aug  6 14:01:42 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 20:01:42 +0200
Subject: Unexpected side-effects of assigning to sys.modules[__name__]
In-Reply-To: <028b05d5$0$5185$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <028b05d5$0$5185$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4A7B1A86.8040609@sequans.com>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Given this module:
>
> #funny.py
> import sys
> print "Before:"
> print "  __name__ =", __name__
> print "  sys.modules[__name__] =", sys.modules[__name__]
> sys.modules[__name__] = 123
> print "After:"
> print "  __name__ =", __name__
> print "  sys =", sys
>
>
> when I run it I get these results:
>
>
> [steve at sylar python]$ python2.6 funny.py
> Before:
>   __name__ = __main__
>   sys.modules[__name__] = 
> After:
>   __name__ = None
>   sys = None
>
>
>
> I'm completely perplexed by this behaviour. sys.modules() seems to be a 
> regular dict, at least according to type(), and yet assigning to an item 
> of it seems to have unexpected, and rather weird, side-effects.
>
> What am I missing?
>
>
>
>   
Maybe when you assign 123 to sys.modules[__name__], you've removed the 
last reference on  and it is 
garbaged. You are then loosing all your initial namespace.


try this one:
#funny.py
import sys
print "Before:"
print "  __name__ =", __name__
print "  sys.modules[__name__] =", sys.modules[__name__]
foo = sys.modules[__name__] # backup ref for the garbage collector
sys.modules[__name__] = 123
print "After:"
print "  __name__ =", __name__
print "  sys =", sys

Jean-Michel




From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Thu Aug  6 14:05:52 2009
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 20:05:52 +0200
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
References: 
	
	<2qcrk6-doj.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
Message-ID: 

* Michael Str?der (Thu, 06 Aug 2009 18:26:09 +0200)
> Thorsten Kampe wrote:
> > * Michael Str?der (Wed, 05 Aug 2009 16:43:09 +0200)
> > I don't think any measurable speed increase will be noticeable
> > between those two.
> 
> Well, seems not to be true. Try yourself. I did (my console has UTF-8 as charset):
> 
> Python 2.6 (r26:66714, Feb  3 2009, 20:52:03)
> [GCC 4.3.2 [gcc-4_3-branch revision 141291]] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> import timeit
> >>> timeit.Timer("'???????'.decode('utf-8')").timeit(1000000)
> 7.2721178531646729
> >>> timeit.Timer("'???????'.decode('utf8')").timeit(1000000)
> 7.1302499771118164
> >>> timeit.Timer("unicode('???????','utf8')").timeit(1000000)
> 8.3726329803466797
> >>> timeit.Timer("unicode('???????','utf-8')").timeit(1000000)
> 1.8622009754180908
> >>> timeit.Timer("unicode('???????','utf8')").timeit(1000000)
> 8.651669979095459
> >>>
> 
> Comparing again the two best combinations:
> 
> >>> timeit.Timer("unicode('???????','utf-8')").timeit(10000000)
> 17.23644495010376
> >>> timeit.Timer("'???????'.decode('utf8')").timeit(10000000)
> 72.087096929550171
> 
> That is significant! So the winner is:
> 
> unicode('???????','utf-8')

Unless you are planning to write a loop that decodes "???????" one 
million times, these benchmarks are meaningless.

Thorsten


From nobody at nowhere.com  Thu Aug  6 14:08:26 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 19:08:26 +0100
Subject: Character encoding & the copyright symbol
References: <29ab0981-b95d-4435-91bd-a7a520419ada@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 09:14:08 -0700, Robert Dailey wrote:

> I'm loading a file via open() in Python 3.1 and I'm getting the
> following error when I try to print the contents of the file that I
> obtained through a call to read():
> 
> UnicodeEncodeError: 'charmap' codec can't encode character '\xa9' in
> position 1650: character maps to 
> 
> The file is defined as ASCII and the copyright symbol shows up just
> fine in Notepad++. However, Python will not print this symbol. How can
> I get this to work? And no, I won't replace it with "(c)". Thanks!

1. As others have said, your file *isn't* ASCII, but that isn't the
problem.

2. The problem is that the encoding which your standard output
stream uses doesn't have the copyright symbol. You need to use something
like:

sys.stdout = io.TextIOWrapper(sys.stdout.detach(), encoding = 'iso-8859-1')
sys.stderr = io.TextIOWrapper(sys.stderr.detach(), encoding = 'iso-8859-1')

to fix the encoding of the stdout and stderr streams.



From python-url at phaseit.net  Thu Aug  6 14:21:58 2009
From: python-url at phaseit.net (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 18:21:58 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Aug  6)
Message-ID: 

QOTW:  "The economy rises and falls, money comes and goes, but a great
conference has permanent good effects.  Well, a lot more permanent than
government fiscal policy, anyway." - Python Software Foundation Director
"bitter-in-victory-gracious-in-defeat-ly y'rs" timbot

    
    Is python free of "buffer overflow" errors?
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/a31faac6feced289/

    Lessons learned in implementation of a write-once dict:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/bc8b91669257e246/

    Methods, attributes, iterators, lambdas, and how Ruby handles them:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/6e4fc61946513405/

    Python 3 allows for custom types to be used as a class namespace 
    not just dicts):
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/50caadd10d2cca16/

    Could Python be used to write a device driver?
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/4efc28f9fe45b69e/

    The various meanings of the underscore character '_' in identifiers:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/e32d577ad3d5a208/

    Generate a new object each time a name is imported:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/b7112f74e2efa8bd/

    heapq.nlargest takes a "key" argument - why not the other functions in
    the same module?
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/a5095d3f4b54f79b/

    Immutable objects and how they could improve concurrency [old thread,
    still alive]:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/cb0cf56c52321ccc/5c82cd09767ba85a?#5c82cd09767ba85a

    How to modify a variable in an outer (non global) scope:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/e0e64250bd82825f/

    Best way to add "private" directories to sys.path:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/cb43cf90d72f6833/

    Interval arithmetic:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/71f050d8f5987244/

    Ensure that no more than three instances of the same program are
    running at the same time:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/af7ae6429c2bda1e/

    Some people don't like the way Python documentation is managed/presented:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/a52b22cd90b15ef8/
    
    
========================================================================
Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    marvelous daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily

    Just beginning with Python?  This page is a great place to start:
	http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide/Programmers

    The Python Papers aims to publish "the efforts of Python enthusiasts":
	http://pythonpapers.org/
    The Python Magazine is a technical monthly devoted to Python:
	http://pythonmagazine.com

    Readers have recommended the "Planet" sites:
	http://planetpython.org
	http://planet.python.org

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python.announce/topics

    Python411 indexes "podcasts ... to help people learn Python ..."
    Updates appear more-than-weekly:
        http://www.awaretek.com/python/index.html

    The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
        http://www.python.org/pypi/

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
    match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
    subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
        http://www.pythonology.com/success

    The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
    Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
    responsibility for Python's development and maintenance.
        http://www.python.org/psf/
    Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
        http://www.python.org/psf/donations/

    The Summary of Python Tracker Issues is an automatically generated
    report summarizing new bugs, closed ones, and patch submissions. 
        http://search.gmane.org/?author=status%40bugs.python.org&group=gmane.comp.python.devel&sort=date

    Although unmaintained since 2002, the Cetus collection of Python
    hyperlinks retains a few gems.
        http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
    interesting recipes.
	http://code.activestate.com/recipes/langs/python/

    Many Python conferences around the world are in preparation.
    Watch this space for links to them.

    Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available, see:
        http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
    For more, see:
        http://www.syndic8.com/feedlist.php?ShowMatch=python&ShowStatus=all
    The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
    SourceForge reincarnation.
        http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
	http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0042/

    del.icio.us presents an intriguing approach to reference commentary.
    It already aggregates quite a bit of Python intelligence.
        http://del.icio.us/tag/python

    Enjoy the *Python Magazine*.
	http://pymag.phparch.com/

    *Py: the Journal of the Python Language*
        http://www.pyzine.com

    Dr.Dobb's Portal is another source of Python news and articles:
        http://www.ddj.com/TechSearch/searchResults.jhtml?queryText=python
    and Python articles regularly appear at IBM DeveloperWorks:
        http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/search/searchResults.jsp?searchSite=dW&searchScope=dW&encodedQuery=python&rankprofile=8

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://search.gmane.org/?query=python+URL+weekly+news+links&group=gmane.comp.python.general&sort=date
  http://groups.google.com/groups/search?q=Python-URL!+group%3Acomp.lang.python&start=0&scoring=d&
  http://lwn.net/Search/DoSearch?words=python-url&ctype3=yes&cat_25=yes

There is *not* an RSS for "Python-URL!"--at least not yet.  Arguments
for and against are occasionally entertained.


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
E-mail to  should get through.

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning
(approximately), ask  to subscribe.  Mention
"Python-URL!".  Write to the same address to unsubscribe.


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Phaseit, Inc. (http://phaseit.net) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.  Watch this space for upcoming
news about posting archives.


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 14:33:06 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 11:33:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	
	
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	 
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro ups.com> 
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	 
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <2eaf5b79-dc0a-4762-9f06-5de7e22381a2@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 6, 11:20?am, Paul Rubin  wrote:
...(snip)
> There is something similar with the PostgreSQL docs. ?There is also
> Real World Haskell (http://book.realworld.haskell.org) which has a lot
> of interspersed user comments. ?It would be cool if Python's doc site
> did something like it too.

hear! hear!


From kee at kagi.com  Thu Aug  6 14:36:31 2009
From: kee at kagi.com (Kee Nethery)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 11:36:31 -0700
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
In-Reply-To: <96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro
	ups.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

As someone trying to learn the language I want to say that the tone on  
this list towards people who are trying to learn Python  feels like it  
has become anti-newbies.

Learning a new language is difficult enough without seeing other  
newbies getting shamed for not knowing everything there is to know  
about Python before asking their questions.

For example, the guy who was looking for Python sample code for the  
Google Map API, calling him a troll was harsh. Suggesting he broach  
the question to Google was a reasonable answer. By the same token, his  
asking this list about the missing Python examples seems reasonable  
also. Seems to me that people on a Python list might have some  
background knowledge or even samples of the Google Python code that  
was no longer on the Google web site.

There seems to be a general consensus among the newbies that other  
languages have a user contributions resource tied to the main official  
docs to allow newbies to teach each other what they have learned. The  
desire is for python.org to have the same kind of support resource so  
that us newbies can self support each other.

Kee Nethery


From dioxide.software at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 14:49:26 2009
From: dioxide.software at gmail.com (KK)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 11:49:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: pylucene installation problem on Ubuntu 9.04
Message-ID: 

hi all,
I've trying to install pylucene on my linux box from last 2 days but
not able to do so. first i tried to install it using apt-get like
this,
kk-laptop$ sudo apt-get install pylucene
and it did install python2.5, python2.5-minimal and pylucene. I must
mention one thing that I already had python2.6 on my box as the
default python i.e /usr/bin/python is linked to python2.6. Anyway s,
now i started the python interpreter using "python" command from cli
and then to make sure pylucene has been installed i tried to import
the module and to my surprise it said "module pylucene not found".
I thought I should enter the python2.6 env and do the same , so i
tried starting the python2.6 interpreter using "python2.6" as the
command and tried importing the same module and again it failed giving
the same irritating message.
 As a final try i pulled the source code of pylucene and as per the
comments given there in the README file, copied the mentioned files to
site-packages directory of python2.6 and then tried importing the
module and then got the same error message saying no module name
pylucene is present. I'm sick of this error !
Can someone point me what is the issue? If it is due to multiple
version of python running on box, can someone tell me which one to
remove or someone tell me how to get the whole thing running? I'll
very much thankful to you guys.

Thanks,
KK.


From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Thu Aug  6 14:50:30 2009
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 19:50:30 +0100
Subject: Parsing Binary Structures; Is there a better way / What is your
	way?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Thanks all for your insights and suggestions.
It seems to me that there are a couple of ways to this bit manipulation 
and a couple of foreign modules to assist you with that.

Would it be worth the while to do a PEP on this?
Personally I think that it would be nice to have a standard module in 
Python for this but perhaps there is a good reason that there isn't 
already one.

-- 
MPH
http://blog.dcuktec.com
'If consumed, best digested with added seasoning to own preference.'


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Thu Aug  6 14:58:13 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 20:58:13 +0200
Subject: Using Python to automate builds
References: <84d9ae10-3aee-40a8-97ac-05799da0de64@f18g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<200908050956.33995.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
	<5b8d13220908050508n32f05bep4c275cec14914588@mail.gmail.com>
	
	
	
	<1a236d86-72de-4b43-bc7b-cf0c9bdab615@u38g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Kosta  (K) wrote:

>K> My interpretation of the above (and your email) is that using Popen
>K> allows one to pass the Python environment to a child processs (in my
>K> case, setenv.bat).   I need the reverse, to propagate from the child
>K> to the parent.

I don't think there is any modern OS that allows that. Unless you use
your own protocol of course, like letting the child write the
environment to its stdout and reading and interpreting it in the parent.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From wescpy at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 15:14:21 2009
From: wescpy at gmail.com (Wesley Chun)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 12:14:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing
References: 
Message-ID: <1fcc79a2-692a-4744-a3e4-122394e3dad9@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Jul 31, 1:10?pm, kj  wrote:
> I'm pretty new to Python, and I like a lot overall, but I find the
> documentation for Python rather poor, overall.
>
> I'm sure that Python experts don't have this problem:


kj,

welcome to Python! i'm sorry that you find the documentation lacking.
the one thing about the docs is that they're just pointers to get you
started and aren't very comprehensive. there are plenty of good online
tutorials out there as well as books. in fact, one of my main
motivations for writing "Core Python Programming" was because when i
learned Python 13 years ago, the online docs were enough to get me
started but did not have enough info to help me become an intermediate
Python programmer. there were only *2*(!) Python books out there, and
they were special-topic oriented, not ones to learn the language from.
it took almost a year and a half to write, but from what i hear from
readers and what has been said in reviews, it's pretty comprehensive,
and is a good book to learn Python from. i only wish that *i* had it
when i was learning!

Most "Python experts" do not have the entire language memorized, so
everyone has to look at the docs from time-to-time, not just
beginners. i'll either hit up http://docs.python.org/library/MODULE.html
or flip open my Nutshell or PER references, and finally, i'll google
if i have to (rare). the Python docs are the language manuals and not
necessarily full reference texts, so you have to just take them for
what they are.

hope this helps!
-- wesley
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Core Python Programming", Prentice Hall, (c)2007,2001
"Python Fundamentals", Prentice Hall, (c)2009
    http://corepython.com

wesley.j.chun :: wescpy-at-gmail.com
python training and technical consulting
cyberweb.consulting : silicon valley, ca
http://cyberwebconsulting.com


From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Aug  6 15:14:41 2009
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 21:14:41 +0200
Subject: Character encoding & the copyright symbol
In-Reply-To: 
References: <29ab0981-b95d-4435-91bd-a7a520419ada@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>		
	
Message-ID: <4A7B2BA1.2020002@v.loewis.de>

> As a side note, you should probably use something other than "file" for
> the parameter name in GetFileContentsAsString() since file() is a Python
> function.

Python 3.1.1a0 (py3k:74094, Jul 19 2009, 13:39:42)
[GCC 4.3.3] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
py> file
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
NameError: name 'file' is not defined

Regards,
Martin



From piet at cs.uu.nl  Thu Aug  6 15:17:16 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 21:17:16 +0200
Subject: Web page data and urllib2.urlopen
References: <469a6df4-92da-4fd1-bffd-5fefa8cdf3ed@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Dave Angel  (DA) wrote:

>DA> Massi wrote:
>>> Hi everyone, I'm using the urllib2 library to get the html source code
>>> of web pages. In general it works great, but I'm having to do with a
>>> financial web site which does not provide the souce code I expect. As
>>> a matter of fact if you try:
>>> 
>>> import urllib2
>>> res = urllib2.urlopen("http://www.marketwatch.com/story/mondays-
>>> biggest-gaining-and-declining-stocks-2009-07-27")
>>> page = res.read()
>>> print page
>>> 
>>> you will see that the printed code is very different from the one
>>> given, for example, by mozilla. Since I have really little knowledge
>>> in html I can't even understand if this is a python or html problem.
>>> Can anyone give me some help?
>>> Thanks in advance.
>>> 
>>> 
>DA> I don't think this is a Python issue, but a "raw read" versus an
>DA> interactive interpretation of a page.  The browser does lots more than a
>DA> single roundtrip defined by urlopen/read.

>DA> I also would love to see some explanation of what happens here, or a
>DA> pointer to a reference that would help me understand it.

>DA> I took the output of the read(), and formatted it, roughly, as html.  I
>DA> expected to find a refresh, which is the simplest way that one page can
>DA> cause a very different one to be loaded.
>DA>      

>DA> If Mozilla had seen a page with this line in an appropriate place, it'd
>DA> immediately begin loading the other page, at "someotherurl"  But there's no
>DA> such line.

>DA> Next, I looked for javascript.  The Mozilla page contains lots of
>DA> javascript, but there's none in the raw page.  So I can't explain Mozilla's
>DA> differences that way.

>DA> I did notice the link to /m/Content/mobile2.css, but I don' t know any way
>DA> a CSS file could cause the content to change, just the display.

>DA> All I can guess is that it has something to do with "browser type" or
>DA> cookies.  And that would make lots of sense if this was a cgi page.  But
>DA> the URL doesn't look like that, as it doesn't end in pl, py, asp, or any of
>DA> another dozen special suffixes.

>DA> Any hints, anybody???

If you look into the HTML that Firefox gets, there is a lot of
javascript in it.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Aug  6 15:17:30 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 06 Aug 2009 19:17:30 GMT
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
References: 
	
	<2qcrk6-doj.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	
Message-ID: <028b1ce0$0$5185$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 20:05:52 +0200, Thorsten Kampe wrote:

> > That is significant! So the winner is:
> > 
> > unicode('???????','utf-8')
> 
> Unless you are planning to write a loop that decodes "???????" one
> million times, these benchmarks are meaningless.

What if you're writing a loop which takes one million different lines of 
text and decodes them once each?


>>> setup = 'L = ["abc"*(n%100) for n in xrange(1000000)]'
>>> t1 = timeit.Timer('for line in L: line.decode("utf-8")', setup)
>>> t2 = timeit.Timer('for line in L: unicode(line, "utf-8")', setup)
>>> t1.timeit(number=1)
5.6751680374145508
>>> t2.timeit(number=1)
2.6822888851165771


Seems like a pretty meaningful difference to me.



-- 
Steven


From philip at semanchuk.com  Thu Aug  6 15:20:48 2009
From: philip at semanchuk.com (Philip Semanchuk)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 15:20:48 -0400
Subject: Character encoding & the copyright symbol
In-Reply-To: <4A7B2BA1.2020002@v.loewis.de>
References: <29ab0981-b95d-4435-91bd-a7a520419ada@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>		
	
	<4A7B2BA1.2020002@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <45B3614D-01A3-4CC2-BB78-5B488BC74841@semanchuk.com>


On Aug 6, 2009, at 3:14 PM, Martin v. L?wis wrote:

>> As a side note, you should probably use something other than "file"  
>> for
>> the parameter name in GetFileContentsAsString() since file() is a  
>> Python
>> function.
>
> Python 3.1.1a0 (py3k:74094, Jul 19 2009, 13:39:42)
> [GCC 4.3.3] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> py> file
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "", line 1, in 
> NameError: name 'file' is not defined


Whooops, didn't know about that change from 2.x to 3.x. Thanks.



From joncle at googlemail.com  Thu Aug  6 15:38:48 2009
From: joncle at googlemail.com (Jon Clements)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 12:38:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: pylucene installation problem on Ubuntu 9.04
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 6 Aug, 19:49, KK  wrote:
> hi all,
> I've trying to install pylucene on my linux box from last 2 days but
> not able to do so. first i tried to install it using apt-get like
> this,
> kk-laptop$ sudo apt-get install pylucene
> and it did install python2.5, python2.5-minimal and pylucene. I must
> mention one thing that I already had python2.6 on my box as the
> default python i.e /usr/bin/python is linked to python2.6. Anyway s,
> now i started the python interpreter using "python" command from cli
> and then to make sure pylucene has been installed i tried to import
> the module and to my surprise it said "module pylucene not found".
> I thought I should enter the python2.6 env and do the same , so i
> tried starting the python2.6 interpreter using "python2.6" as the
> command and tried importing the same module and again it failed giving
> the same irritating message.
> ?As a final try i pulled the source code of pylucene and as per the
> comments given there in the README file, copied the mentioned files to
> site-packages directory of python2.6 and then tried importing the
> module and then got the same error message saying no module name
> pylucene is present. I'm sick of this error !
> Can someone point me what is the issue? If it is due to multiple
> version of python running on box, can someone tell me which one to
> remove or someone tell me how to get the whole thing running? I'll
> very much thankful to you guys.
>
> Thanks,
> KK.

If you installed using apt, have you a pylucene directory under /usr/
local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/?

Also, if you run python, and import sys; print sys.path
whats it show?

Jon.


From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Thu Aug  6 15:48:27 2009
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 15:48:27 -0400
Subject: pylucene installation problem on Ubuntu 9.04
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 2:49 PM, KK wrote:
>
> kk-laptop$ sudo apt-get install pylucene
> and it did install python2.5, python2.5-minimal and pylucene. I must
> mention one thing that I already had python2.6 on my box as the
> default python i.e /usr/bin/python is linked to python2.6. Anyway s,
> now i started the python interpreter using "python" command from cli
> and then to make sure pylucene has been installed i tried to import
> the module and to my surprise it said "module pylucene not found".
> I thought I should enter the python2.6 env and do the same , so i
> tried starting the python2.6 interpreter using "python2.6" as the
> command and tried importing the same module and again it failed giving
> the same irritating message.

Pylucene seems to have installed under Python 2.5. Python extensions
are only installed for one version of python and extensions that use C
may only work under one particular version. If you want to use that
package, run python2.5 from the command line and try importing it.


From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Thu Aug  6 15:54:26 2009
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 15:54:26 -0400
Subject: Character encoding & the copyright symbol
In-Reply-To: 
References: <29ab0981-b95d-4435-91bd-a7a520419ada@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 12:41 PM, Robert Dailey wrote:
> On Aug 6, 11:31?am, "Richard Brodie"  wrote:
>> "Robert Dailey"  wrote in message
>>
>> news:29ab0981-b95d-4435-91bd-a7a520419ada at b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > UnicodeEncodeError: 'charmap' codec can't encode character '\xa9' in
>> > position 1650: character maps to 
>>
>> > The file is defined as ASCII.
>>
>> That's the problem: ASCII is a seven bit code. What you have is
>> actually ISO-8859-1 (or possibly Windows-1252).
>>
>> The different ISO-8859-n variants assign various characters to
>> to '\xa9'. Rather than being Western-European centric and assuming
>> ISO-8859-1 by default, Python throws an error when you stray
>> outside of strict ASCII.
>
> Thanks for the help guys. Sorry I left out code, I wasn't sure at the
> time if it would be helpful. Below is my code:
>
>
> #========================================================
> def GetFileContentsAsString( file ):
> ? f = open( file, mode='r', encoding='cp1252' )
> ? contents = f.read()
> ? f.close()
> ? return contents
>
> #========================================================
> def ReplaceVersion( file, version, regExps ):
> ? #match = regExps[0].search( 'FILEVERSION 1,45332,2100,32,' )
> ? #print( match.group() )
> ? text = GetFileContentsAsString( file )
> ? print( text )
>
>
> As you can see, I am trying to load the file with encoding 'cp1252'
> which, according to the python 3.1 docs, translates to windows-1252. I
> also tried 'latin_1', which translates to ISO-8859-1, but this did not
> work either. Am I doing something else wrong?

This is why we need code and full tracebacks. There's a good chance
that your error is on the print(text) line. That's because sys.stdout
is probably a byte stream without an encoding defined. When you try to
print your unicode string, Python has to convert it to a stream of
bytes. Python refuses to guess on the console encoding and just falls
back to ascii, the conversion fails, and you get your error. Try using
print( text.encode( 'cp1252' ) ) instead.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Aug  6 15:55:57 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 6 Aug 2009 12:55:57 -0700
Subject: Using Python to automate builds
References: <84d9ae10-3aee-40a8-97ac-05799da0de64@f18g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<200908050956.33995.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
	<5b8d13220908050508n32f05bep4c275cec14914588@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
Hendrik van Rooyen   wrote:
>
>Bit slow - but hey, nobody's perfect.

YM "pobody's nerfect" HTH HAND
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"...string iteration isn't about treating strings as sequences of strings, 
it's about treating strings as sequences of characters.  The fact that
characters are also strings is the reason we have problems, but characters 
are strings for other good reasons."  --Aahz


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Aug  6 16:16:33 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 6 Aug 2009 13:16:33 -0700
Subject: How to write replace string for object which will be substituted?
	[regexp]
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
ryniek90   wrote:
>
>I started learning regexp, and some things goes well, but most of them 
>still not.

1) 'Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "I know, I'll use
regular expressions."  Now they have two problems.'
--Jamie Zawinski, comp.emacs.xemacs, 8/1997

2) If you really want to learn regexes, get a copy of _Mastering Regular
Expressions_ by Friedl (either 2nd or 3rd edition)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"...string iteration isn't about treating strings as sequences of strings, 
it's about treating strings as sequences of characters.  The fact that
characters are also strings is the reason we have problems, but characters 
are strings for other good reasons."  --Aahz


From kosta.koeman at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 16:19:31 2009
From: kosta.koeman at gmail.com (Kosta)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 13:19:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Using Python to automate builds
References: <84d9ae10-3aee-40a8-97ac-05799da0de64@f18g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<200908050956.33995.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
	<5b8d13220908050508n32f05bep4c275cec14914588@mail.gmail.com> 
	
	
	
	<1a236d86-72de-4b43-bc7b-cf0c9bdab615@u38g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4703dc01-a41a-4bcd-b225-9ef819105144@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 6, 11:58?am, Piet van Oostrum  wrote:
> >>>>> Kosta  (K) wrote:
> >K> My interpretation of the above (and your email) is that using Popen
> >K> allows one to pass the Python environment to a child processs (in my
> >K> case, setenv.bat). ? I need the reverse, to propagate from the child
> >K> to the parent.
>
> I don't think there is any modern OS that allows that. Unless you use
> your own protocol of course, like letting the child write the
> environment to its stdout and reading and interpreting it in the parent.
> --
> Piet van Oostrum 
> URL:http://pietvanoostrum.com[PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
> Private email: p... at vanoostrum.org

Piet,

Yes you are correct.  Thinking more about parent/child processes and
what I am doing: opening a cmd window (its own process), starting up
Python (a child process), and then attempting to run setenv.bat (a
child process to Python), and yes I'm out of luck.


From davea at ieee.org  Thu Aug  6 16:26:11 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 16:26:11 -0400
Subject: Character encoding & the copyright symbol
In-Reply-To: <29ab0981-b95d-4435-91bd-a7a520419ada@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <29ab0981-b95d-4435-91bd-a7a520419ada@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A7B3C63.2050307@ieee.org>

Robert Dailey wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm loading a file via open() in Python 3.1 and I'm getting the
> following error when I try to print the contents of the file that I
> obtained through a call to read():
>
> UnicodeEncodeError: 'charmap' codec can't encode character '\xa9' in
> position 1650: character maps to 
>
> The file is defined as ASCII and the copyright symbol shows up just
> fine in Notepad++. However, Python will not print this symbol. How can
> I get this to work? And no, I won't replace it with "(c)". Thanks!
>
>   
I see others have alerted you to changes needed in stdout, which is 
ASCII coded by default.

But I wanted to comment on the (c) remark.  If you're in the US, that's 
the wrong abbreviation for copyright.  The only recognized abbreviation 
is (copr).

DaveA


From python at rcn.com  Thu Aug  6 16:47:13 2009
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 13:47:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Subclassing Python's dict
References: 
	<2d56febf0908050732i7792bf7ft32accf1bc1157421@mail.gmail.com> 
	
Message-ID: 

> Are you referring to Python 3.0? ?Python 2.6 does not have
> collections.UserDict

In Python2.6, it is in its own module.

    >>> from UserDict import UserDict


Raymond


From ryniek90 at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 17:03:54 2009
From: ryniek90 at gmail.com (Ryniek90)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 23:03:54 +0200
Subject: How to write replace string for object which will be substituted?
	[regexp]
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A7B453A.4050501@gmail.com>


> 2) If you really want to learn regexes, get a copy of _Mastering Regular
> Expressions_ by Friedl (either 2nd or 3rd edition)
>   

I made preview of that book, but some pages are disabled from preview. 
Has that book topics about Python regexp's?
If so, i must buy it.


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Thu Aug  6 17:08:15 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 14:08:15 -0700
Subject: os.walk()
In-Reply-To: <75c8645a0908050849ua654ec1q6e9c8c83f412d7aa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <75c8645a0908041906s138c1499k59cd57d569a5c83e@mail.gmail.com>
	<50697b2c0908041948q31a30819g29e3d7f196e94074@mail.gmail.com>
	<75c8645a0908050849ua654ec1q6e9c8c83f412d7aa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908061408p79316e22mc5a93f4b1ef17f04@mail.gmail.com>

> On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 10:48 PM, Chris Rebert  wrote:
>> On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 7:06 PM, Michael Savarese wrote:
>> > Greetings
>> > Python newbie here, and thanks to all who have helped me previously.
>> > Is there a way of grabbing file attributes while traversing with os.walk()?
>> > It would be advantageous to have date modified and file size along with the
>> > file name.
>> > If anyone can point me in the right direction, I'd appreciate it.
>>
>> Feed the path to os.stat(), and then use the `stat` module on the result:
>> http://docs.python.org/library/os.html#os.stat
>> http://docs.python.org/library/stat.html#module-stat

2009/8/5 Michael Savarese :
> Chris, thanks for the info.
> I'm a bit stuck here.
>
> am i close?

Yes, you just need to plug some more bricks together (as it were).

> import os, sys
> import os.path
>
> for root, dirs, files in os.walk('c:/Temp'):
>     for name in files:
>         statinfo=os.stat(name)
#see http://docs.python.org/library/os.path.html#os.path.join
        filepath = os.path.join(root, name)
        statinfo = os.stat(filepath)
>
>           print root,dirs,name,statinfo.st_size ; it gets stuck here, i guess it needs the full path.
>                                                                  is this where i use the join function to bring root, dirs, and filename together?
>                                                                  I kinda suck at that too, can you point me in the right direction?
>
> also:
>>>> statinfo.st_mtime
> 1247778166.6563497  can i have a hint on how to convert this?

That is the time represented in seconds since the (UNIX) epoch.
Use the functions in the `time` module to convert it to something more
palatable:
http://docs.python.org/library/time.html

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Thu Aug  6 17:09:28 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 14:09:28 -0700
Subject: How to write replace string for object which will be substituted?
	[regexp]
In-Reply-To: <4A7B453A.4050501@gmail.com>
References: 
	<4A7B453A.4050501@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908061409u2295f111l808f1eafc9142668@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 2:03 PM, Ryniek90 wrote:
>> 2) If you really want to learn regexes, get a copy of _Mastering Regular
>> Expressions_ by Friedl (either 2nd or 3rd edition)
>>
>
> I made preview of that book, but some pages are disabled from preview. Has
> that book topics about Python regexp's?
> If so, i must buy it.

Yes, Python is among the language APIs covered.

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From python at rcn.com  Thu Aug  6 17:18:14 2009
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 14:18:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Subclassing Python's dict
References: 
	<2d56febf0908050732i7792bf7ft32accf1bc1157421@mail.gmail.com> 
	
	
Message-ID: <3fadb25e-6457-4c2e-96a0-6d917ebba08b@2g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

> Xavier Ho wrote:
> > You should subclass collections.UserDict, and not the default dict class.
> > Refer to the collections module.
>
> Xavier, why do you think that is the correct approach? The docs say
> "The need for this class has been largely supplanted by the ability to
> subclass directly from dict (a feature that became available starting
> with Python version 2.2)."

UserDict can be a good choice because the pure python source makes
it clear exactly what needs to be overridden (you can see which
methods are implemented in terms of lower level methods and which
ones access the underlying dict directly.

Another choice is to use DictMixin or MutableMapping and fill-in just
the required abstract methods.  This approach is simple and
flexible.
It allows you to wrap a mapping interface around many different
classes
(a dbm for example).  The disadvantage is that it can be slow.

Subclassing a dict is typically done when the new class has to be
substitutable for real dicts (perhaps an API enforces a check
for instance(x, dict) or somesuch).  As the OP found out, the
dict methods all access the underlying structure directly, so
you will need to override *all* methods that need to have a new
behavior.  The remaining methods are inherited and run at C speed,
so performance may dictate this approach.

So, there you have three ways to do it.  In Py3.1, we used the latter
approach for collections.Counter() -- that gives a high speed on the
inherited methods.  For collections.OrderedDict, a hybrid approach
was used (subclassing from both dict and MutableMapping).  Most of
the work is done by MutableMapping and the dict is inherited so that
the OrderedDict objects would be substitutable anywhere regular
dicts are expected.  And IIRC, there are still some cases of UserDict
being used in the python source (situations where subclassing from
dict wouldn't work as well).


Raymond



From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Thu Aug  6 17:23:47 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 14:23:47 -0700
Subject: Help with regex
In-Reply-To: 
References: <39e84c94-0054-4a60-b890-65e00cafabfe@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4A7B49E3.3000908@stoneleaf.us>

Nobody wrote:
> On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 08:35:57 -0700, Robert Dailey wrote:
> 
> 
>>I'm creating a python script that is going to try to search a text
>>file for any text that matches my regular expression. The thing it is
>>looking for is:
>>
>>FILEVERSION #,#,#,#
>>
>>The # symbol represents any number that can be any length 1 or
>>greater. Example:
>>
>>FILEVERSION 1,45,10082,3
>>
>>The regex should only match the exact above. So far here's what I have
>>come up with:
>>
>>re.compile( r'FILEVERSION (?:[0-9]+\,){3}[0-9]+' )
> 
> 
> [0-9]+ allows any number of leading zeros, which is sometimes undesirable.
> Using:
> 
> 	(0|[1-9][0-9]*)
> 
> is more robust.

You make a good point about possibly being undesirable, but I question 
the assertion that your solution is /more robust/.  If the OP 
wants/needs to match numbers even with leading zeroes your /more robust/ 
version fails.

~Ethan~



From nils at ccsg.de  Thu Aug  6 17:28:29 2009
From: nils at ccsg.de (Nils Ruettershoff)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 23:28:29 +0200
Subject: Seeding the rand() Generator
In-Reply-To: 
References: 			
	
Message-ID: <4A7B4AFD.9030808@ccsg.de>

Hi Fred,

I just saw your SQL Statement
> 	An example would be: SELECT first, second, third, fourth,
> fifth, sixth from sometable order by rand() limit 1
>
>   
and I feel  me  constrained to give you an advice. Don't use this SQL 
statement to pick up a random row, your user and maybe DBA would much 
appreciate it.
You are certainly asking why. Lets have a brief look what you are asking 
your mysql DB:

Fetch all rows from 'sometable', but only with attribute 'first, 
second,...' sort them all starting at 'random row' and afterward through 
anything away you did before, but the first line

If you have a table with 100000 rows you would fetch and sort up to 
100000 rows, pick up one row and discard up to 99999 rows. That sounds 
not very clever, right?

So please take a look at this site to get a better alternate way for 
that approach:

http://jan.kneschke.de/projects/mysql/order-by-rand/

if you want to know more please check this article too:

http://jan.kneschke.de/2007/2/22/analyzing-complex-queries

regards,

Nils



From bdezonia at wisc.edu  Thu Aug  6 17:57:00 2009
From: bdezonia at wisc.edu (BDZ)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 14:57:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: os.path.exists() and Samba shares
References: <42f0c423-657f-45fb-bec5-67dcdda9f4ad@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<3fdc924a-75ad-477a-be2e-6e42ce7bff0c@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> 
	<337482f9-8ad9-4600-9cf4-39911f5368ac@h31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: 

On Jul 31, 10:56?pm, "Gabriel Genellina" 
wrote:
> En Fri, 31 Jul 2009 13:33:45 -0300, BDZ  escribi?:
>
>
>
> > On Jul 30, 4:41?pm, Lo?c Domaign? 
> > wrote:
> >> > Hello. I have written a Python 3.1 script running on Windows that uses
> >> > os.path.exists() to connect to network shares. If the various network
> >> > shares require different user account and password combos than the
> >> > account the script is running under the routine returns false. I need
> >> > something like os.samba.path.exists(username,password,path). Does
> >> > anyone have a suggestion on how I can accomplish what I need to do in
> >> > Python?
>
> >> Could the Python Samba module PySamba be interesting for ?
> >> you?http://sourceforge.net/projects/pysamba/
>
> > Unfortunately, although it has the calls I'd want, pysamba appears to
> > be *nix only. I need something that will work under Windows. Is there
> > a set of Python Windows functions (official or contributed) that might
> > do what I need? (I'm new to Python)
>
> SAMBA is a Linux implementation of the SMB protocol, natively supported on
> Windows. You may use the pywin32 package (available on sourceforge.net) to
> call the WNetAddConnection2 Windows function:http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa385413(VS.85).aspx
>
> --
> Gabriel Genellina

The WNetAddConnection2 function under pywin32 seems to work. I am able
to make connections to various SMB network resources hosted by
Windows, Mac, and Linux boxes. It has the annoying side effect of
opening a connection.

There is a Win32 function called NetShareCheck. It sounds perfect. It
just checks that the share exists (no connection left open) and does
not require username or password. Unfortunately it fails for Mac and
Linux SMB resources. Just FYI.

I understand Samba and Windows SMB are not the same thing. What I was
hoping for when I investigated pySamba was to find a python module/
extension that supported a simple SMB interface and would run from any
host platform.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Aug  6 18:05:24 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 23:05:24 +0100
Subject: XML flaw
Message-ID: <4A7B53A4.2000508@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Hi all,

I've just read this article, which mentions Python:

XML flaw threatens millions of apps with DoS attacks
http://infoworld.com/print/86340

Something to worry about?


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Aug  6 18:09:14 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 06 Aug 2009 22:09:14 GMT
Subject: Unexpected side-effects of assigning to sys.modules[__name__]
References: <028b05d5$0$5185$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <0004d7c9$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 20:01:42 +0200, Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:


> > I'm completely perplexed by this behaviour. sys.modules() seems to be
> > a regular dict, at least according to type(), and yet assigning to an
> > item of it seems to have unexpected, and rather weird, side-effects.
> >
> > What am I missing?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> Maybe when you assign 123 to sys.modules[__name__], you've removed the
> last reference on  and it is
> garbaged. You are then loosing all your initial namespace.

By Jove, I think you've got it! How obvious in hindsight. Thank you.





-- 
Steven


From davea at ieee.org  Thu Aug  6 18:17:02 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 18:17:02 -0400
Subject: Web page data and urllib2.urlopen
In-Reply-To: 
References: <469a6df4-92da-4fd1-bffd-5fefa8cdf3ed@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>	
	
Message-ID: <4A7B565E.9000508@ieee.org>



Piet van Oostrum wrote:
> 
>> DA> If Mozilla had seen a page with this line in an appropriate place, it'd
>> DA> immediately begin loading the other page, at "someotherurl"  But there's no
>> DA> such line.
>>     
>
>   
>> DA> Next, I looked for javascript.  The Mozilla page contains lots of
>> DA> javascript, but there's none in the raw page.  So I can't explain Mozilla's
>> DA> differences that way.
>>     
>
>   
>> DA> I did notice the link to /m/Content/mobile2.css, but I don' t know any way
>> DA> a CSS file could cause the content to change, just the display.
>>     
>
>   
>> DA> All I can guess is that it has something to do with "browser type" or
>> DA> cookies.  And that would make lots of sense if this was a cgi page.  But
>> DA> the URL doesn't look like that, as it doesn't end in pl, py, asp, or any of
>> DA> another dozen special suffixes.
>>     
>
>   
>> DA> Any hints, anybody???
>>     
>
> If you look into the HTML that Firefox gets, there is a lot of
> javascript in it.
>   

But the raw page didn't have any javascript.  So what about that 
original raw page triggered additional stuff to be loaded?
Is it "user agent", as someone else brought out?  And is there somewhere 
I can read more about that aspect of things?  I've mostly built very 
static html pages, where the server yields the same page to everybody.  
And some form stuff, where the  user clicks on a 'submit" button to 
trigger a script that's not shown on the URL line.





From clp2 at rebertia.com  Thu Aug  6 18:23:16 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 15:23:16 -0700
Subject: XML flaw
In-Reply-To: <4A7B53A4.2000508@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <4A7B53A4.2000508@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908061523k5ce10b8eldccd4089e6f70e63@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 3:05 PM, MRAB wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I've just read this article, which mentions Python:
>
> XML flaw threatens millions of apps with DoS attacks
> http://infoworld.com/print/86340
>
> Something to worry about?

More detailed article:
http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=4609

Quote:
"If you own any of the following libraries you need to be alert and
ready to patch:
    * Python libexpat"
AKA xml.parsers.expat AKA pyexpat

The good news: "[a patch] is in process for Python."

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Aug  6 18:23:16 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 23:23:16 +0100
Subject: XML flaw
In-Reply-To: <4A7B53A4.2000508@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <4A7B53A4.2000508@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: 

MRAB wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I've just read this article, which mentions Python:
> 
> XML flaw threatens millions of apps with DoS attacks
> http://infoworld.com/print/86340
> 
> Something to worry about?
No.  Discussing letting Tom, Dick and Harriet loose on the Python 
documentaion is far more important than trivial issues like Denial of 
Service atacks via XML.

Sorry, just couldn't resist.

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From REMpeteOVE at petezilla.co.uk  Thu Aug  6 19:04:46 2009
From: REMpeteOVE at petezilla.co.uk (Peter Chant)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 00:04:46 +0100
Subject: Setuptools - help!
Message-ID: 

Chaps,

any ideas, I'm floundering - I don't quite get it.  I have the following
files, setup.py and main.py in a directory pphoto:

# more setup.py
from setuptools import setup, find_packages
setup(
    name = "Pphoto",
    version = "0.1",
    packages = find_packages(),

    # other arguments here...
    entry_points = {'console_scripts': ['foo = pphoto.main:HelloWorld',]}


)

bash-3.1# more main.py


def HelloWorld():
    print "Hello World!"

print "Odd world"


>From various websites that should produce a script foo that runs HelloWorld. 
It does produce a script that simply crashes.

bash-3.1# foo
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/bin/foo", line 8, in 
    load_entry_point('Pphoto==0.1', 'console_scripts', 'foo')()
  File "build/bdist.linux-i686/egg/pkg_resources.py", line 277, in
load_entry_point
  File "build/bdist.linux-i686/egg/pkg_resources.py", line 2098, in
load_entry_point
  File "build/bdist.linux-i686/egg/pkg_resources.py", line 1831, in load
ImportError: No module named pphoto.main
bash-3.1#            


Note, doing this as root as it seems not to do anything usefull at all if I
run python setup develop as a user. 

Any ideas?  I must be missing something fundamental?

Pete


-- 
http://www.petezilla.co.uk


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 19:17:26 2009
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 18:17:26 -0500
Subject: Setuptools - help!
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-06 18:04, Peter Chant wrote:
> Chaps,
>
> any ideas, I'm floundering - I don't quite get it.  I have the following
> files, setup.py and main.py in a directory pphoto:
>
> # more setup.py
> from setuptools import setup, find_packages
> setup(
>      name = "Pphoto",
>      version = "0.1",
>      packages = find_packages(),
>
>      # other arguments here...
>      entry_points = {'console_scripts': ['foo = pphoto.main:HelloWorld',]}
>
>
> )
>
> bash-3.1# more main.py
>
>
> def HelloWorld():
>      print "Hello World!"
>
> print "Odd world"
>
>
>> From various websites that should produce a script foo that runs HelloWorld.
> It does produce a script that simply crashes.
>
> bash-3.1# foo
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "/usr/bin/foo", line 8, in
>      load_entry_point('Pphoto==0.1', 'console_scripts', 'foo')()
>    File "build/bdist.linux-i686/egg/pkg_resources.py", line 277, in
> load_entry_point
>    File "build/bdist.linux-i686/egg/pkg_resources.py", line 2098, in
> load_entry_point
>    File "build/bdist.linux-i686/egg/pkg_resources.py", line 1831, in load
> ImportError: No module named pphoto.main
> bash-3.1#
>
>
> Note, doing this as root as it seems not to do anything usefull at all if I
> run python setup develop as a user.
>
> Any ideas?  I must be missing something fundamental?

You need to put main.py into the pphoto package.

$ mkdir pphoto/
$ mv main.py pphoto/
$ touch pphoto/__init__.py

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From dfnsonfsduifb at gmx.de  Thu Aug  6 20:55:27 2009
From: dfnsonfsduifb at gmx.de (Johannes Bauer)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 02:55:27 +0200
Subject: Python3: Using sorted(key=...)
Message-ID: <7e1cbuF2dfhtoU1@mid.dfncis.de>

Hello list,

I'm having trouble with a incredibly simple sort of a list containing
ints and tuples:

def myorder(x):
	if type(x) == int:
		return x
	else:
		return x[0]

odata = sorted([ (a, b) for (a, b) in data["description"].items() ],
key=myorder)

still says:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./genproto.py", line 81, in 
    odata = sorted([ (a, b) for (a, b) in data["description"].items() ],
key=myorder)
TypeError: unorderable types: tuple() < int()

Why is that? Am I missing something very obvious?

Kind regards,
Johannes

-- 
"Du bist einfach nur l?cherlich! Mit solchen albernen und hohlen S?tzen
kannst du mir nicht impr?gnieren."
-- Hobbycholeriker Jens Fittig aka Wolfgang Gerber in de.sci.electronics
                             <4a6f44d0$0$12481$9b622d9e at news.freenet.de>


From jabronson at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 21:10:39 2009
From: jabronson at gmail.com (Joshua Bronson)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 18:10:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: heapq "key" arguments
References: <97932d10-8601-401f-bb69-a98db9036929@p15g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 3, 1:36?pm, Raymond Hettinger  wrote:
> [Joshua Bronson]:
>
> > According tohttp://docs.python.org/library/heapq.html, Python 2.5
> > added an optional "key" argument to heapq.nsmallest and
> > heapq.nlargest. I could never understand why they didn't also add a
> > "key" argument to the other relevant functions (heapify, heappush,
> > etc).
>
> The problem is that heapq acts on regular lists, so it does not
> have exclusive access to the structure. ?So, there is no reliable
> way for it to maintain a separate list of keys. ?Since the keys
> can't be saved in the structure (without possibly breaking other
> code), the fine grained heapq functions (like heappop and heappush)
> would need to call key functions every time they are invoked.
> This is at odds with the implicit guarantee of the key function
> that it will be called no more than once per key.
>
> The overall problem is one of granularity. ?A key function should
> be applied once in an initial pass, not on every call to a push/pop
> function. ?The everyday solution that most people use is to operate
> on a list of (key, record) tuples and let tuple comparison do the
> work for you. ?Another solution is to build a Heap class that does
> have exclusive access to the structure, but the API sugar often
> isn't worth the slightly weaker performance.
>
> One other thought. ?Heaps are a lazy evaluation structure, so their
> fined-grained mutation functions only work well with just a single
> ordering function, so there is not need to have (and every reason
> to avoid) changing key functions in mid-stream. ?IOW, the key
> function needs to be constant across all accesses. ?Contrast this
> with other uses of key functions where it makes perfect sense
> to run minage=min(data, key=attrgetter('age')) and then running
> minsal=min(data, key=attrgetter('salary')). ?The flexibility to
> change key functions just doesn't make sense in the context of
> the fine-grained heap functions.
>
> Accordingly, this is why I put key functions in nlargest() and
> nsmallest() but not in heappush() and friends. ?The former can
> guarantee no more than one key function call per entry and they
> evaluate immediately instead of lazily.
>
> Raymond


I see, that makes sense. Thanks for the great explanation.

Josh


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Thu Aug  6 21:24:22 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 22:24:22 -0300
Subject: Help making this script better
References: <2f8e34ec-01aa-4ec4-9636-a8ec1f87c68c@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

En Thu, 06 Aug 2009 11:50:07 -0300, jakecjacobson  
 escribi?:

> After much Google searching and trial & error, I was able to write a
> Python script that posts XML files to a REST API using HTTPS and
> passing PEM cert & key file.  It seems to be working but would like
> some pointers on how to handle errors.  I am using Python 2.4, I don't
> have the capability to upgrade even though I would like to.  I am very
> new to Python so help will be greatly appreciated and I hope others
> can use this script.

Just a few remarks, mostly on style rather than functionality:

> #!/usr/bin/python
> #################################################################
> # catalog_feeder.py
> #################################################################
> # This sciript will process a directory of XML files and push them to
> the Enterprise Catalog.
> #  You configure this script by using a configuration file that
> describes the required variables.
> #  The path to this file is either passed into the script as a command
> line argument or hard coded
> #  in the script.  The script will terminate with an error if it can't
> process the XML file.
> #################################################################

Note that Python has "docstrings" - the __doc__ attribute attached to  
every module, class and function. The very first string in the  
module/function/class becomes its docstring. The interactive help system  
-and other tools like pydoc- can inspect and show such info.
The above comment could serve perfectly as this module's docstring - just  
remove all the #'s and enclose the whole text in """triple quotes"""  
(required as it spawns many lines).
By example, in that case you could print the text in your usage() function  
like this:
print __doc__

> 	try:
> 		# Process the XML conf file ....
> 		xmldoc = minidom.parse(c)
> 		catalog_host = readConfFile(xmldoc, 'catalog_host')
> 		catalog_port = int(readConfFile(xmldoc, 'catalog_port'))
> 		catalog_path = readConfFile(xmldoc, 'catalog_path')
> 		collection_name = readConfFile(xmldoc, 'collection_name')
> 		cert_file = readConfFile(xmldoc, 'cert_file')
> 		key_file = readConfFile(xmldoc, 'key_file')
> 		log_file = readConfFile(xmldoc, 'log_file')
> 		input_dir = readConfFile(xmldoc, 'input_dir')
> 		archive_dir = readConfFile(xmldoc, 'archive_dir')
> 		hold_dir = readConfFile(xmldoc, 'hold_dir')
> 	except Exception, inst:
> 		# I had an error so report it and exit script
> 		print "Unexpected error opening %s: %s" % (c, inst)
> 		sys.exit(1)

Ok, an unexpected error: but *which* one? doing exactly *what*? You're  
hiding important information (the error type, the full traceback, the  
source line that raised the error...) that's very valuable when something  
goes wrong and you have to determine what happened.
In this case, you're adding a bit of information: the name of the file  
being processed. That's good. But at the same time, hiding all the other  
info, and that's not so good. What about this:

	except Exception:
		print >>sys.stderr, "Unexpected error opening %s" % c
		raise

The final raise will propagate the exception; by default, Python will  
print the exception type, the exception value, the full traceback  
including source lines, and exit the script with a status code of 1. The  
same effect that you intended, but more complete.

In other cases, where you don't have anything to add to the default  
exception handling, the best thing to do is: nothing. That is, don't catch  
an exception unless you have something good to do with it. (Exceptions  
aren't Pok?mon: you don't have to "catch 'em all!")

> 	# Log Starting
> 	logOut = verifyLogging(log_file)
> 	if logOut:
> 		log(logOut, "Processing Started ...")

I would move the decision into the log function (that is, just write  
log("something") and make the log function decide whether to write to file  
or not). For your next script, look at the logging module:  
http://docs.python.org/library/logging.html

> # Get an arry of files from the input_dir
> def getFiles2Post(d):
> 	return (os.listdir(d))

Note that return isn't a function but a statement. You don't need the  
outer (). Also, using a docstring instead of a comment:

def getFiles2Post(input_dir):
     "Return the list of files in input_dir to process"
     return os.listdir(input_dir)

> # Read out the conf file and set the needed global variable
> def readConfFile(xmldoc, tag):
> 	return (xmldoc.getElementsByTagName(tag)[0].firstChild.data)

Same as above. Which "needed global variable"?

> def cleanup(logOut):
>       [...]	sys.exit(0)

Exiting the script from everywhere makes it harder to reuse some of its  
functions later. Just return the desired status code to the caller, which  
in turn will return to main(), until it gets to the outermost level, which  
is the only place I'd use sys.exit()

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From michael at stroeder.com  Thu Aug  6 21:25:03 2009
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?UTF-8?B?TWljaGFlbCBTdHLDtmRlcg==?=)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 03:25:03 +0200
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	<2qcrk6-doj.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Thorsten Kampe wrote:
> * Michael Str?der (Thu, 06 Aug 2009 18:26:09 +0200)
>>>>> timeit.Timer("unicode('???????','utf-8')").timeit(10000000)
>> 17.23644495010376
>>>>> timeit.Timer("'???????'.decode('utf8')").timeit(10000000)
>> 72.087096929550171
>>
>> That is significant! So the winner is:
>>
>> unicode('???????','utf-8')
> 
> Unless you are planning to write a loop that decodes "???????" one 
> million times, these benchmarks are meaningless.

Well, I can tell you I would not have posted this here and checked it if it
would be meaningless for me. You don't have to read and answer this thread if
it's meaningless to you.

Ciao, Michael.


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Thu Aug  6 21:27:51 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 18:27:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Help with regex
References: <39e84c94-0054-4a60-b890-65e00cafabfe@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 7, 7:23?am, Ethan Furman  wrote:
> Nobody wrote:
> > On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 08:35:57 -0700, Robert Dailey wrote:
>
> >>I'm creating a python script that is going to try to search a text
> >>file for any text that matches my regular expression. The thing it is
> >>looking for is:
>
> >>FILEVERSION #,#,#,#
>
> >>The # symbol represents any number that can be any length 1 or
> >>greater. Example:
>
> >>FILEVERSION 1,45,10082,3
>
> >>The regex should only match the exact above. So far here's what I have
> >>come up with:
>
> >>re.compile( r'FILEVERSION (?:[0-9]+\,){3}[0-9]+' )
>
> > [0-9]+ allows any number of leading zeros, which is sometimes undesirable.
> > Using:
>
> > ? ?(0|[1-9][0-9]*)
>
> > is more robust.
>
> You make a good point about possibly being undesirable, but I question
> the assertion that your solution is /more robust/. ?If the OP
> wants/needs to match numbers even with leading zeroes your /more robust/
> version fails.

I'd go further: the OP would probably be better off matching anything
that looked vaguely like an attempt to produce what he wanted e.g.
r"FILEVERSION\s*[0-9,]{3,}" and then taking appropriate action based
on whether that matched a "strictly correct" regex.



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Thu Aug  6 21:29:19 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 22:29:19 -0300
Subject: Subclassing Python's dict
References: 
	<2d56febf0908050732i7792bf7ft32accf1bc1157421@mail.gmail.com>
	
	
	<2d56febf0908060126i323d499fla4b7a22c934c5e7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

En Thu, 06 Aug 2009 05:26:22 -0300, Xavier Ho 
escribi?:
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 1:19 PM, alex23  wrote:
>> Xavier Ho wrote:
>> > You should subclass collections.UserDict, and not the default dict  
>> class.
>>
>> Xavier, why do you think that is the correct approach?
>
> I'll be honest first and say that I do not completely understand how  
> dict is
> implemented in the underlying C structure. But as Bruno had already
> mentioned, dict has a slightly different behaviour then we'd expect. For
> example, the __getitem__() function isn't actually used by the  
> interpreter
> (which, you know, *can* be a problem.)

Thinks have evolved...
Before Python 2.2, builtin types were not subclassable. You could not
inherit from dict. In order to write another mapping class, you had to
write the complete interface - or inherit from UserDict, that was a
concrete class implementing the mapping protocol.

Later, DictMixin was added (in 2.3) and it made easier to write other
mapping classes: one had to write the most basic methods (__getitem__ /
__setitem__ / __delitem__ / keys) and the DictMixin provided the remaining
functionality (e.g. values() is built from keys() plus __getitem__). Later
releases allowed an even more modular approach, and until 2.5 DictMixin
was the recommended approach.

Then came 3.0/2.6 and PEP3119 defining a rich hierarchy of abstract base
classes; a normal dictionary implements the MutableMapping ABC and this is
the preferred approach now (the MutableMapping implementation is very
similar to the original DictMixin, but builds on the other base classes
like Sized, Iterable...)

> I didn't realise they took UserDict out in later versions (2.6, for
> example), and put it back in Python 3.0. Does anyone know why?

UserDict still exists on both releases (collections.UserDict on 3.x), but
it's not the preferred approach to implement a new mapping class anymore.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Aug  6 21:33:27 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 02:33:27 +0100
Subject: Python3: Using sorted(key=...)
In-Reply-To: <7e1cbuF2dfhtoU1@mid.dfncis.de>
References: <7e1cbuF2dfhtoU1@mid.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <4A7B8467.8060101@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Johannes Bauer wrote:
> Hello list,
> 
> I'm having trouble with a incredibly simple sort of a list containing
> ints and tuples:
> 
> def myorder(x):
> 	if type(x) == int:
> 		return x
> 	else:
> 		return x[0]
> 
> odata = sorted([ (a, b) for (a, b) in data["description"].items() ],
> key=myorder)
> 
You're sorting a list of tuples (key/value pairs), so 'myorder' is
always given a tuple.

> still says:
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "./genproto.py", line 81, in 
>     odata = sorted([ (a, b) for (a, b) in data["description"].items() ],
> key=myorder)
> TypeError: unorderable types: tuple() < int()
> 
> Why is that? Am I missing something very obvious?
> 
Are some keys 'int' and others 'tuple'? In Python 3.x you can't compare
them except for equality:


Python 2.6.2 (r262:71605, Apr 14 2009, 22:40:02) [MSC v.1500 32 bit 
(Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> (1, ) < 1
False


Python 3.1 (r31:73574, Jun 26 2009, 20:21:35) [MSC v.1500 32 bit 
(Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> (1, ) < 1
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "", line 1, in 
TypeError: unorderable types: tuple() < int()


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Thu Aug  6 22:01:24 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 02:01:24 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
References: 
	<1249487636.7120.798.camel@arrakis>
	
	<1249568141.10840.37.camel@arrakis>
Message-ID: 

Jason Tackaberry  urandom.ca> writes:

> On Thu, 2009-08-06 at 01:31 +0000, John Machin wrote:

> > Suggested further avenues of investigation:
> > 
> > (1) Try the timing again with "cp1252" and "utf8" and "utf_8"
> > 
> > (2) grep "utf-8" /Objects/unicodeobject.c
> 
> Very pedagogical of you. :)  Indeed, it looks like bigger player in the
> performance difference is the fact that the code path for unicode(s,
> enc) short-circuits the codec registry for common encodings (which
> includes 'utf-8' specifically), whereas s.decode('utf-8') necessarily
> consults the codec registry.

So the next question (the answer to which may benefit all users
of .encode() and .decode()) is:

    Why does consulting the codec registry take so long,
    and can this be improved?





From dfnsonfsduifb at gmx.de  Thu Aug  6 22:15:52 2009
From: dfnsonfsduifb at gmx.de (Johannes Bauer)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 04:15:52 +0200
Subject: Python3: Using sorted(key=...)
In-Reply-To: 
References: <7e1cbuF2dfhtoU1@mid.dfncis.de>
	
Message-ID: <7e1h2oF2dlhvjU1@mid.dfncis.de>

MRAB schrieb:
> Johannes Bauer wrote:
>> Hello list,
>>
>> I'm having trouble with a incredibly simple sort of a list containing
>> ints and tuples:
>>
>> def myorder(x):
>>     if type(x) == int:
>>         return x
>>     else:
>>         return x[0]
>>
>> odata = sorted([ (a, b) for (a, b) in data["description"].items() ],
>> key=myorder)
>>
> You're sorting a list of tuples (key/value pairs), so 'myorder' is
> always given a tuple.

Oh good lord! You're right... I meant

def myorder(x):
     if type(x[0]) == int:
         return x[0]
     else:
         return x[0][0]

Thanks for your help,
Kind regards,
Johannes

-- 
"Du bist einfach nur l?cherlich! Mit solchen albernen und hohlen S?tzen
kannst du mir nicht impr?gnieren."
-- Hobbycholeriker Jens Fittig aka Wolfgang Gerber in de.sci.electronics
                             <4a6f44d0$0$12481$9b622d9e at news.freenet.de>


From michaelmossey at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 23:02:10 2009
From: michaelmossey at gmail.com (Michael Mossey)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 20:02:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: help with threads
Message-ID: <5a744bd6-6b9a-4f46-97c1-bb7fd65b8f4c@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I have a simple application that needs one thread to manage networking
in addition to the main "thread" that does the main job. It's not
working right. I know hardly anything about threads, so I was hoping
someone could point me in the right direction to research this.

Basically, I have a program that does some computational work, and
also conveys its status to a monitor program elsewhere on the network
via sockets. I wanted to use a thread to manage the networking so that
the main program can run without regard to networking (i.e. they would
be asynchronous). So the network thread loops and calls select.

My problem is that in some cases, the network thread appears to stop,
while the main thread is doing a long computation.

I'm hoping someone can give me a general idea what to read about. For
example, under what conditions does a thread stop running? Can other
threads "take priority"? Are there certain operations that block other
threads (such as disk access)?

Thanks,
Mike


From jsrat10 at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 23:13:01 2009
From: jsrat10 at gmail.com (jo)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 20:13:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: need help with an egg
Message-ID: <4d881767-ebe3-432c-bc9b-683b80626c97@y4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I am very new to python....

I created an egg on a machine.  The Python version on that  is 2.5.
Copied that egg to a machine which has Python 2.6.

unzip -t Myproj-0.1-py2.5.egg
The above command shows all the files I need

When I run the easy_install, I get the foll. error.  Is it because of
the version?  Or am I doing something wrong?  Or the way I understand
the egg works is wrong.  Can anyone please help?
If it's the version issue, does that mean I cannot use that egg on my
machine with 2.6 version?

Installed /usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/Myproj-0.1-py2.5.egg
Processing dependencies for Myproj==0.1
Searching for Myproj==0.1
Reading http://pypi.python.org/simple/Myproj/
Couldn't find index page for 'Myproj' (maybe misspelled?)
Scanning index of all packages (this may take a while)
Reading http://pypi.python.org/simple/
No local packages or download links found for Myproj==0.1
error: Could not find suitable distribution for Requirement.parse
('Myproj==0.1')

Thank you
Jo


From nate at binkert.org  Thu Aug  6 23:19:24 2009
From: nate at binkert.org (nathan binkert)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 20:19:24 -0700
Subject: Pure python implementation of string.format?
Message-ID: <217accd40908062019hb57a3d1n711316c21f9436bf@mail.gmail.com>

I was wondering if there was a pure python version of string.format
anywhere that could be used with python 2.4 and python 2.5.  Searching
has only turned up an early implementation done for pep 3101, but it
seems that it didn't get that far.

Thanks,

  Nate


From sgeorge at coe.neu.edu  Thu Aug  6 23:21:34 2009
From: sgeorge at coe.neu.edu (Sarmad George)
Date: Thu,  6 Aug 2009 23:21:34 -0400
Subject: SMTP
Message-ID: <1249615294.4a7b9dbe3a900@www.coe.neu.edu>

Good day all
I am new to the Python list
My question is here not Python as much as it is in servers

I have a code to send an email through my SMTP server - comcast Boston
fromaddrs = "******"
toaddrs = "sgeorge at coe.neu.edu"
msg = "Hello World"

server = smtplib.SMTP ('76.96.30.117', '25') #COMCAST BOSTON
server.set_debuglevel(1)
try:
    server.sendmail(fromaddrs, toaddrs, msg)
finally:
    server.quit()

Which basically sends a hello world message
Debugging gives me an indication of acceptance as seen below (and I as googled
it)
I tried the same from the University server, and I got the same results almost!
However, no emails in my Inbox when I log in - PLS can you explain the trouble?
Is it a firewall blocker?
Thanks alot


send: 'ehlo [127.0.1.1]\r\n'
reply: '250-OMTA03.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net hello [98.216.11.39], pleased
to meet you\r\n'
reply: '250-HELP\r\n'
reply: '250-AUTH LOGIN PLAIN CRAM-MD5\r\n'
reply: '250-SIZE 15728640\r\n'
reply: '250-ENHANCEDSTATUSCODES\r\n'
reply: '250-8BITMIME\r\n'
reply: '250-STARTTLS\r\n'
reply: '250 OK\r\n'
reply: retcode (250); Msg: OMTA03.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net hello
[98.216.11.39], pleased to meet you
HELP
AUTH LOGIN PLAIN CRAM-MD5
SIZE 15728640
ENHANCEDSTATUSCODES
8BITMIME
STARTTLS
OK
send: 'mail FROM: size=11\r\n'
reply: '250 2.1.0  sender ok\r\n'
reply: retcode (250); Msg: 2.1.0  sender ok
send: 'rcpt TO:\r\n'
reply: '250 2.1.5  recipient ok\r\n'
reply: retcode (250); Msg: 2.1.5  recipient ok
send: 'data\r\n'
reply: '354 enter mail, end with "." on a line by itself\r\n'
reply: retcode (354); Msg: enter mail, end with "." on a line by itself
data: (354, 'enter mail, end with "." on a line by itself')
send: 'Hello World\r\n.\r\n'
reply: '250 2.0.0 REQK1c0070qYooa8PEQKQA mail accepted for delivery\r\n'
reply: retcode (250); Msg: 2.0.0 REQK1c0070qYooa8PEQKQA mail accepted for
delivery
data: (250, '2.0.0 REQK1c0070qYooa8PEQKQA mail accepted for delivery')
send: 'quit\r\n'
reply: '221 2.0.0 OMTA03.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net comcast closing
connection\r\n'
reply: retcode (221); Msg: 2.0.0 OMTA03.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net comcast
closing connection

Sarmad Edward George
Electrical Computer Eng
Northeastern Uni
Boston MA - USA



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Thu Aug  6 23:21:38 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 00:21:38 -0300
Subject: Using Python to automate builds
References: <84d9ae10-3aee-40a8-97ac-05799da0de64@f18g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<200908050956.33995.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
	<5b8d13220908050508n32f05bep4c275cec14914588@mail.gmail.com>
	
	
	
	<1a236d86-72de-4b43-bc7b-cf0c9bdab615@u38g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

En Thu, 06 Aug 2009 14:27:56 -0300, Kosta   
escribi?:
> On Aug 6, 3:57?am, David Cournapeau  wrote:
>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 12:39 AM, Kosta wrote:
>>
>> > Setenv.bat sets up the path and other environment variables build.exe
>> > needs to compile and link (and even binplace) its utilities. ?So
>> > building itself is not the issue. ?The problem is that if I call
>> > setenv.bat from Python and then build.exe, but the modifications to
>> > the path (and other environment settings) are not seen by Python, so
>> > the attempt to build without a specified path fails.
>>
>> It sounds like you do not propagate the environment when calling
>> setenv.bat from python. There is an option to do so in
>> subprocess.Popen init method, or you can define your own environment
>
> My interpretation of the above (and your email) is that using Popen
> allows one to pass the Python environment to a child processs (in my
> case, setenv.bat).   I need the reverse, to propagate from the child
> to the parent.

In addition to just calling setenv, dump the modified environment. Parse  
the output into a dictionary that you can use as the env argument to later  
subprocess calls:

py> import subprocess
py> cmdline = '(call setenv >nul 2>&1 & set)'
py> p = subprocess.Popen(cmdline, stdout=subprocess.PIPE, shell=True)
py> env = dict(line.rstrip().split("=",1) for line in p.stdout)
py> p.wait()
0
py> env
{'TMP': 'D:\\USERDATA\\Gabriel\\CONFIG~1\\Temp', 'COMPUTERNAME': 'LEPTON',  
'HOMEDRIVE': 'D:', ...
py> env['FOO']='Salta Violeta!'
py> subprocess.call("echo %FOO%", shell=True, env=env)
Salta Violeta!
0

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From dioxide.software at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 23:22:57 2009
From: dioxide.software at gmail.com (KK)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 20:22:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: pylucene installation problem on Ubuntu 9.04
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 7, 12:38?am, Jon Clements  wrote:
> On 6 Aug, 19:49, KK  wrote:
>
>
>
> > hi all,
> > I've trying to install pylucene on my linux box from last 2 days but
> > not able to do so. first i tried to install it using apt-get like
> > this,
> > kk-laptop$ sudo apt-get install pylucene
> > and it did install python2.5, python2.5-minimal and pylucene. I must
> > mention one thing that I already had python2.6 on my box as the
> > default python i.e /usr/bin/python is linked to python2.6. Anyway s,
> > now i started the python interpreter using "python" command from cli
> > and then to make sure pylucene has been installed i tried to import
> > the module and to my surprise it said "module pylucene not found".
> > I thought I should enter the python2.6 env and do the same , so i
> > tried starting the python2.6 interpreter using "python2.6" as the
> > command and tried importing the same module and again it failed giving
> > the same irritating message.
> > ?As a final try i pulled the source code of pylucene and as per the
> > comments given there in the README file, copied the mentioned files to
> > site-packages directory of python2.6 and then tried importing the
> > module and then got the same error message saying no module name
> > pylucene is present. I'm sick of this error !
> > Can someone point me what is the issue? If it is due to multiple
> > version of python running on box, can someone tell me which one to
> > remove or someone tell me how to get the whole thing running? I'll
> > very much thankful to you guys.
>
> > Thanks,
> > KK.
>
> If you installed using apt, have you a pylucene directory under /usr/
> local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/?
>
> Also, if you run python, and import sys; print sys.path
> whats it show?
>
> Jon.

Yes I've a dirctory called dist-packages under python2.6 but that
doesn't contain anything on pylucene [it has lupyne, which i installed
day before yesterday and importing lupyne doesn't give any error msg,
but again it is dependent on pylucene]
# for python the output is :
------------------------------
kk-laptop$ python
Python 2.6.2 (release26-maint, Apr 19 2009, 01:56:41)
[GCC 4.3.3] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import sys
>>> print sys.path
['', '/usr/lib/python2.6', '/usr/lib/python2.6/plat-linux2', '/usr/lib/
python2.6/lib-tk', '/usr/lib/python2.6/lib-old', '/usr/lib/python2.6/
lib-dynload', '/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages', '/usr/lib/python2.6/
dist-packages/PIL', '/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/gst-0.10', '/var/
lib/python-support/python2.6', '/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/
gtk-2.0', '/var/lib/python-support/python2.6/gtk-2.0', '/usr/local/lib/
python2.6/dist-packages']
>>>
-------------------------------

for python2.5 this is the output:
kk-laptop$ python2.5
Python 2.5.4 (r254:67916, Apr  4 2009, 17:55:16)
[GCC 4.3.3] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import sys
>>> print sys.path
['', '/usr/lib/python2.5', '/usr/lib/python2.5/plat-linux2', '/usr/lib/
python2.5/lib-tk', '/usr/lib/python2.5/lib-dynload', '/usr/local/lib/
python2.5/site-packages', '/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages', '/usr/
lib/python2.5/site-packages/PIL', '/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/
gst-0.10', '/var/lib/python-support/python2.5', '/usr/lib/python2.5/
site-packages/gtk-2.0', '/var/lib/python-support/python2.5/gtk-2.0']
>>>
--------------------------------

and for python2.6 the output is this:
kk-laptop$ python2.6
Python 2.6.2 (release26-maint, Apr 19 2009, 01:56:41)
[GCC 4.3.3] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import sys
>>> print sys.path
['', '/usr/lib/python2.6', '/usr/lib/python2.6/plat-linux2', '/usr/lib/
python2.6/lib-tk', '/usr/lib/python2.6/lib-old', '/usr/lib/python2.6/
lib-dynload', '/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages', '/usr/lib/python2.6/
dist-packages/PIL', '/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/gst-0.10', '/var/
lib/python-support/python2.6', '/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/
gtk-2.0', '/var/lib/python-support/python2.6/gtk-2.0', '/usr/local/lib/
python2.6/dist-packages']


>From all of the above what I can see is we don't have any directory
named dist-packages under python2.5 but we've one under 2.6, then
where did all those pylucene files got installed to after i installed
it using apt-get? Any ideas?

Thanks
KK


From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 23:29:35 2009
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 20:29:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Custom namespaces
References: <0284d760$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <271ecd46-b684-49a0-b7ce-a0c0a4be519f@z28g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 2, 6:46?am, Chris Rebert  wrote:
> > Is there any way to install a custom type as a namespace?
>
> For classes/objects, yes, using metaclasses.
> See the __prepare__() method in PEP 3115:http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3115/

Here is an example of usage:

http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=236234
http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=236260
(yes, it only works for Python 3+)


From loic.domaigne at googlemail.com  Fri Aug  7 00:04:40 2009
From: loic.domaigne at googlemail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lo=EFc_Domaign=E9?=)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 21:04:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: help with threads
References: <5a744bd6-6b9a-4f46-97c1-bb7fd65b8f4c@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <949b87d5-8cff-444a-b6ba-23d49610d130@p36g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>

Hallo Michael,

> I have a simple application that needs one thread to manage networking
> in addition to the main "thread" that does the main job. It's not
> working right. I know hardly anything about threads, so I was hoping
> someone could point me in the right direction to research this.
>
> Basically, I have a program that does some computational work, and
> also conveys its status to a monitor program elsewhere on the network
> via sockets. I wanted to use a thread to manage the networking so that
> the main program can run without regard to networking (i.e. they would
> be asynchronous). So the network thread loops and calls select.
>
> My problem is that in some cases, the network thread appears to stop,
> while the main thread is doing a long computation.
>
> I'm hoping someone can give me a general idea what to read about. For
> example, under what conditions does a thread stop running? Can other
> threads "take priority"? Are there certain operations that block other
> threads (such as disk access)?

May I suggest:
http://www.dabeaz.com/python/GIL.pdf

HTH,
Lo?c
--
My Blog: http://www.domaigne.com/blog

"There is only one problem with common sense; it?s not very common."
-- Milt Bryce


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Fri Aug  7 00:21:23 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 01:21:23 -0300
Subject: SMTP
References: <1249615294.4a7b9dbe3a900@www.coe.neu.edu>
Message-ID: 

En Fri, 07 Aug 2009 00:21:34 -0300, Sarmad George   
escribi?:

> Good day all
> I am new to the Python list

Welcome!

> My question is here not Python as much as it is in servers
>
> I have a code to send an email through my SMTP server - comcast Boston
> fromaddrs = "******"
> toaddrs = "sgeorge at coe.neu.edu"
> msg = "Hello World"
>
> server = smtplib.SMTP ('76.96.30.117', '25') #COMCAST BOSTON
> server.set_debuglevel(1)
> try:
>     server.sendmail(fromaddrs, toaddrs, msg)
> finally:
>     server.quit()
>
> Which basically sends a hello world message
> Debugging gives me an indication of acceptance as seen below (and I as  
> googled
> it)
> I tried the same from the University server, and I got the same results  
> almost!
> However, no emails in my Inbox when I log in - PLS can you explain the  
> trouble?
> Is it a firewall blocker?

It's probably a spam filter in action: you claim to be someone at Yahoo  
but you're not using a Yahoo server to send mail. Try using the Yahoo smtp  
mail servers to deliver your message, or use your ISP address as the  
sender if you use their SMTP. In any case, you should log in first with  
the adequate username+password.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From http  Fri Aug  7 00:42:04 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 06 Aug 2009 21:42:04 -0700
Subject: Python3: Using sorted(key=...)
References: <7e1cbuF2dfhtoU1@mid.dfncis.de>
	
	<7e1h2oF2dlhvjU1@mid.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <7xvdl0xmjn.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Johannes Bauer  writes:
> def myorder(x):
>      if type(x[0]) == int:
>          return x[0]
>      else:
>          return x[0][0]

I used to write code like that pretty regularly, but over time I found
that it's better to stay consistent and use the same container format
(in this case, tuples) for everything, rather than having special
cases for the singleton and non-singleton case.


From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 00:54:25 2009
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 21:54:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Generate a new object each time a name is imported
References: <02853264$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	 
	<7x63d631md.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 2, 1:18?pm, Paul Rubin  wrote:
> Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> writes:
> > >>> import sys
> > >>> sys.modules["yadda"] = A()
>
> OMG.... wow. ?I bow to you. ?But I'm not sure whether that's bowing in
> awe or in terror.

I had to play this kind of tricks on our production code, not so long
ago. Not that I am pride of it, but it was the lesser evil to cope
with a wrong design. The scenario: a large legacy code base
based on the idea of using a Python module to keep configuration
parameters. The idea is fine as long as the parameters are
immutable, but in our case the parameters could be changed.
In theory the parameters should have been set only once,
however in practice this was not guaranteed: every piece
of code could change the parameters at some moment, and things
could get "interesting" to debug.
Throwing away the configuration system was not an option, because
it would have involved changing hundreds of modules, so I set out
for a compromise: the parameters are still mutable, but they
can be changed only once. This was implemented by replacing
the module with a configuration object using custom
descriptors. Here is the code:

$ echo config.py
import sys

class WriteOnce(object):
    "WriteOnce descriptor"
    def __init__(self, default):
        self.default = self.value = default
        self.already_set = False
    def __get__(self, obj, objcls):
        return self.value
    def __set__(self, obj, value):
        if value != self.value and self.already_set:
            raise TypeError('You cannot set twice a write-once
attribute!')
        self.value = value
        self.already_set = True

class Config(object):
    "A singleton to be used as a module"
    parameter = WriteOnce(0)

sys.modules['config'] = Config()

The usage is

>>> import config
>>> config.parameter = 42
>>> config.parameter = 43
Traceback (most recent call last):
   ...
TypeError: You cannot set twice a write-once attribute!

Just to say that there are use cases where replacing modules with
objects may have sense.
Still, a better design would just have passed immutable configuration
objects around
(changing the configuration would mean to create a new object).
Unfortunately there are still a lot a people without a functional
mindset :-(


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Fri Aug  7 01:37:13 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 02:37:13 -0300
Subject: Python configuration question when python scripts are executed
	using Appweb as web server.
References: 
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

En Thu, 06 Aug 2009 12:49:30 -0300, IronyOfLife   
escribi?:
> On Aug 5, 4:18?pm, "Gabriel Genellina"  wrote:
>> En Tue, 04 Aug 2009 10:15:24 -0300, IronyOfLife 
>> escribi?:
>> > On Aug 3, 8:42?pm, "Gabriel Genellina"  wrote:
>> >> En Mon, 03 Aug 2009 11:04:07 -0300, IronyOfLife  
>>  ?
>> >> escribi?:
>>
>> >> > I have installed python 2.6.2 in windows xp professional machine. I
>> >> > have set the following environment variables -- PYTHONPATH. It  
>> points
>> >> > to following windows folders: python root folder, the lib folder  
>> and
>> >> > lib-tk folder.
>>
>> >> Why? Did you read it somewhere? Usually there is no need to set the ?
>> >> PYTHONPATH variable at all; remove it.
>>
>> > Setting PYTHONPATH environment variables is mentioned in Python docs.
>>
>> Could you provide a link please? Setting PYTHONPATH should not be
>
> Here are couple of links that discusses setting PYTHONPATH environment
> variable.
> http://docs.python.org/using/windows.html

Ouch, that document should be reworked and updated!

> http://www.daimi.au.dk/~chili/PBI/pythonpath.html

That's mostly obsolete for current versions. Since PEP370 [0] was  
implemented, a per-user private directory is already in sys.path now, so  
there is no need to play with PYTHONPATH.

> I understand your concerns regarding setting of PYTHONPATH while
> multiple versions of Python are installed on the same machine. My fix
> however does not use PYTHONPATH. The GNUTLS wrapper module for PYTHON
> loads the GNUTLS dll's and it was not able to find them. Using FileMon
> (win tool) I found out the paths that are scanned and I copied the
> dlls to one of such paths. I still do not like this fix. This is a
> temporary solution.

Note that this cannot be fixed from inside Python. When you import a  
module, the interpreter scans the directories in ITS search path  
(sys.path) looking for a matching module. Once the module is found:
- if it is a Python file, it's executed
- if it is an extension module (a .pyd file, in fact a .dll renamed) it's  
loaded using LoadLibraryEx (a Windows function), and finally its  
initialization routine is executed.

For LoadLibrary to successfully load the module, all its external  
references must be resolved. That is, Windows must locate and load all  
other DLLs that this module depends on, using its own search strategy [1],  
taking into account the PATH environment variable and many other places.

It is at this stage that you get the error: when the gnutls wrapper  
attempts to load the gnutls DLL. That search is done by Windows, not by  
Python, and PYTHONPATH has nothing to do with it.

Why different results in IIS and appweb? Note that there exist several  
search strategies, they depend on the application home directory, the  
location of the .exe, whether SetDllDirectory was called or not, whether  
the application has a manifest or not, a .local file or not... Hard to  
tell with so many variables.

> Can you explain maybe with some sample how to set .pth files? Maybe
> this will resolve my issue.

Yes, but I don't think this will actually help with your issue.

pth files are described here [2]. Suppose you want to add c:\foo\bar to  
sys.path, then write a file whatever.pth containing this single line:

c:\foo\bar

and place it on c:\your_python_installation\lib\site-packages
When the interpreter starts, it will find the .pth file, read it, and add  
any directory it finds (that actually exists) to sys.path

Note that another Python installation will use a diferent site-packages  
directory and won't find this particular .pth file, so different Python  
versions don't interfere.

---

[0] http://python.org/dev/peps/pep-0370/
[1] http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms682586(VS.85).aspx
[2] http://docs.python.org/library/site.html

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 01:41:17 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 22:41:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	
	
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	 
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro ups.com> 
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	 
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>

Paul Rubin  wrote:
> The PHP docs as I remember are sort of regular (non-publically
> editable) doc pages, each of which has a public discussion thread
> where people can post questions and answers about the topic of that
> doc page. ?I thought it worked really well. ?The main thing is that
> the good stuff from the comment section gets folded into the actual
> doc now and then.

I'd still like to see this kept out of the official docs as much as
possible, mostly for reasons of brevity & clarity. I think the
official docs should be considered definitive and not require a
hermeneutic evaluation against user comments to ensure they're still
correct...

How about a secondary site that embeds the docs and provides
commenting functionality around it? That's certainly a finitely scoped
project that those with issues about the docs could establish and
contribute to, with the possibility of it gaining official support
later once it gains traction.





From nobody at nowhere.com  Fri Aug  7 01:42:29 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 06:42:29 +0100
Subject: Help with regex
References: <39e84c94-0054-4a60-b890-65e00cafabfe@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 14:23:47 -0700, Ethan Furman wrote:

>> [0-9]+ allows any number of leading zeros, which is sometimes undesirable.
>> Using:
>> 
>> 	(0|[1-9][0-9]*)
>> 
>> is more robust.
> 
> You make a good point about possibly being undesirable, but I question 
> the assertion that your solution is /more robust/.  If the OP 
> wants/needs to match numbers even with leading zeroes your /more robust/ 
> version fails.

Well, the OP did say:

> The regex should only match the exact above.

I suppose that it depends upon the definition of "exact" ;)

More seriously: failing to produce an error when one is called for is also
a bug.

Personally, unless I knew for certain that the rest of the program would
handle leading zeros correctly (e.g. *not* interpreting the number as
octal), I would try to reject it in the parser. It's usually much easier
to determine the cause of an error raised by the parser than if you allow
bogus data to propagate deep into the program.



From mark.v.weber at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 01:42:42 2009
From: mark.v.weber at gmail.com (mark.v.weber at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 22:42:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: how to kill subprocess when Python process is killed?
Message-ID: <0feaa2a3-5b73-43e4-9b24-11f157ff6d18@l34g2000vba.googlegroups.com>

I am writing a Python program that launches a subprocess (using
Popen).
I am reading stdout of the subprocess, doing some filtering, and
writing to
stdout of the main process.

When I kill the main process (cntl-C) the subprocess keeps running.
How do I kill the subprocess too? The subprocess is likey to run a
long time.

Context:
I'm launching only one subprocess at a time, I'm filtering its stdout.
The user might decide to interrupt to try something else; the user
wants the process and all subprocesses to go away in response
to a cntl-C

I'm new to python; solution must be for Python 2.5 (windows) to help
me.

Any help and/or pointers appreciated.




From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Fri Aug  7 01:49:59 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 02:49:59 -0300
Subject: one method of COM object needs a variant type variable
References: <913F77222E913C49A057FDD7BBDEAAA30192B846@br-dc.uhul.wan>
Message-ID: 

En Thu, 06 Aug 2009 09:37:55 -0300, MICH?LEK Jan Mgr.  
 escribi?:

> How i can use this type in win32.com? One method of com object (geomedia  
> storage service) needs this variable for storage geometry of geometry  
> object (this variable will be writen into blob in DB). Is possible make  
> this variable in py??

Any compatible object may be used on the Python side, the pywin32 library  
manages the conversion automatically.

See  
http://docs.activestate.com/activepython/2.4/pywin32/html/com/win32com/HTML/PythonCOM.html

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 01:57:34 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 22:57:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: how to kill subprocess when Python process is killed?
References: <0feaa2a3-5b73-43e4-9b24-11f157ff6d18@l34g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3733148e-c03d-42ef-88f7-855c516e6564@d9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 7, 3:42?pm, "mark.v.we... at gmail.com" 
wrote:
> When I kill the main process (cntl-C) the subprocess keeps running.
> How do I kill the subprocess too? The subprocess is likey to run a
> long time.

You can register functions to run when the Python process ends by
using the atexit[1] module.

The following has been tested & works under Python 2.6 on Windows XP:

    import atexit

    def cleanup():
        print 'stop the subprocess in here'

    atexit.register(cleanup)

    while True:
        pass


[1]: http://docs.python.org/library/atexit.html


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Fri Aug  7 02:07:37 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 08:07:37 +0200
Subject: SDMX format
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4a7bc4a8$0$31337$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>

xamdam wrote:
> Does anyone know of python libs for writing SDMX XML format?
> http://www.SDMX.org/resources/SDMXML/schemas/v2_0/common

Looks like the page behind that link is broken, but in general, working
with XML formats in Python isn't hard at all when you use ElementTree or
lxml. The latter also has support for XML-Schema validation, and you might
be interested in lxml.objectify for handling data centric XML formats
(assuming that's the case here).

Stefan


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Fri Aug  7 02:23:32 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 08:23:32 +0200
Subject: How to fetch an XML file using an HTTPS query
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<49b3a7400908040638h46d4e4dcxe5cd4120e9c2c7a1@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <4a7bc863$0$31334$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>

Tycho Andersen wrote:
> Blah, forgot to include the list. When is python-list going to get Reply-To?

Hopefully never.

Stefan


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Fri Aug  7 02:40:35 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 08:40:35 +0200
Subject: How to force SAX parser to ignore encoding problems
In-Reply-To: <89c214a4-e846-4101-b0b3-8078eec15114@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <89c214a4-e846-4101-b0b3-8078eec15114@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a7bcc64$0$31330$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>

?ukasz wrote:
> I have a problem with my XML parser (created with libraries from
> xml.sax package). When parser finds a invalid character (in CDATA
> section) for example ?, throws an exception SAXParseException.
> 
> Is there any way to just ignore this kind of problem. Maybe there is a
> way to set up parser in less strict mode?
> 
> I know that I can catch this exception and determine if this is this
> kind of problem and then ignore this, but I am asking about any global
> setting.

The parser from libxml2 that lxml provides has a recovery option, i.e. it
can keep parsing regardless of errors and will drop the broken content.

However, it is *always* better to fix the input, if you get any hand on it.
Broken XML is *not* XML at all. If you can't fix the source, you can never
be sure that the data you received is in any way complete or even usable.

Stefan


From michaelmossey at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 02:40:53 2009
From: michaelmossey at gmail.com (Michael Mossey)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 23:40:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: help with threads
References: <5a744bd6-6b9a-4f46-97c1-bb7fd65b8f4c@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<949b87d5-8cff-444a-b6ba-23d49610d130@p36g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Ah yes, that explains it. Some of these long computations are done in
pure C, so I'm sure the GIL is not being released.
Thanks.


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Fri Aug  7 02:46:38 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 08:46:38 +0200
Subject: Generators through the C API
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <4a7bcdce$0$31330$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>

Duncan Booth schrieb:
> Lucas P Melo  wrote:
> 
>> Hello, I'm a total noob about the C API. Is there any way to create a 
>> generator function using the C API? I couldn't find anything like the 
>> 'yield' keyword in it.
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
> 
> You define a new type with tp_flags including Py_TPFLAGS_HAVE_ITER. 
> Anything that would be a local variable in your generator needs to become 
> an attribute in the type.
> 
> The tp_init initialization function should contain all the code up to the 
> first yield, tp_iter should return self and tp_iternext should execute code 
> up to the next yield.

This is pretty easy to do in Cython (or Pyrex), BTW. Just write a class
with an __iter__ and __next__ method, and Cython will generate the C-API
code as expected.

http://docs.cython.org/docs/special_methods.html#iterators

Note that Cython doesn't currently support the "yield" statement, but
that's certainly on the ToDo list.

http://trac.cython.org/cython_trac/ticket/83

Stefan


From kushal.kumaran+python at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 02:52:31 2009
From: kushal.kumaran+python at gmail.com (Kushal Kumaran)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 12:22:31 +0530
Subject: Web page data and urllib2.urlopen
In-Reply-To: <4A7B565E.9000508@ieee.org>
References: <469a6df4-92da-4fd1-bffd-5fefa8cdf3ed@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	
	 <4A7B565E.9000508@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <1e364c4e0908062352w33ae8914q7436743d3256e1d5@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 3:47 AM, Dave Angel wrote:
>
>
> Piet van Oostrum wrote:
>>
>> 
>>>
>>> DA> All I can guess is that it has something to do with "browser type" or
>>> DA> cookies. ?And that would make lots of sense if this was a cgi page.
>>> ?But
>>> DA> the URL doesn't look like that, as it doesn't end in pl, py, asp, or
>>> any of
>>> DA> another dozen special suffixes.
>>>

Note that the URL does not have to have any special suffix for it to
be dynamically generated.  See any page at wikipedia, for example.
Mediawiki, the software running the site, is a php application.

>>
>>
>>>
>>> DA> Any hints, anybody???
>>>
>>
>> If you look into the HTML that Firefox gets, there is a lot of
>> javascript in it.
>>
>
> But the raw page didn't have any javascript. ?So what about that original
> raw page triggered additional stuff to be loaded?

FWIW, I'm getting a ton of javascript in the page downloaded using
your code fragment.

> Is it "user agent", as someone else brought out? ?And is there somewhere I
> can read more about that aspect of things? ?I've mostly built very static
> html pages, where the server yields the same page to everybody. ?And some
> form stuff, where the ?user clicks on a 'submit" button to trigger a script
> that's not shown on the URL line.
>

-- 
kushal


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Fri Aug  7 02:53:38 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 08:53:38 +0200
Subject: Special chars with HTMLParser
In-Reply-To: <5c6941f8-c53e-4518-8ce5-83be64689307@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <5c6941f8-c53e-4518-8ce5-83be64689307@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a7bcf71$0$31330$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>

Fafounet wrote:
> I am parsing a web page with special chars such as é (which
> stands for ?).
> I know I can have the unicode character ? from unicode
> ("\xe9","iso-8859-1")
> but with those extra characters I don' t know.
> 
> I tried to implement handle_charref within HTMLParser without success.
> Furthermore, if I have the data abécd, handle_data will get "ab",
> handle_charref will get xe9 and then handle_data doesn't have the end
> of the string ("cd").

Any reason you can't use a tree based HTML parser like the one in
lxml.html? That would eliminate this kind of problem altogether, as you'd
always get a well-decoded unicode string from the tree content.

Stefan


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Aug  7 03:04:51 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 08:04:51 +0100
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
In-Reply-To: 
References: 		<2qcrk6-doj.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>	
	
Message-ID: 

Michael Str?der wrote:
> Thorsten Kampe wrote:
>> * Michael Str?der (Thu, 06 Aug 2009 18:26:09 +0200)
>>>>>> timeit.Timer("unicode('???????','utf-8')").timeit(10000000)
>>> 17.23644495010376
>>>>>> timeit.Timer("'???????'.decode('utf8')").timeit(10000000)
>>> 72.087096929550171
>>>
>>> That is significant! So the winner is:
>>>
>>> unicode('???????','utf-8')
>> Unless you are planning to write a loop that decodes "???????" one 
>> million times, these benchmarks are meaningless.
> 
> Well, I can tell you I would not have posted this here and checked it if it
> would be meaningless for me. You don't have to read and answer this thread if
> it's meaningless to you.
> 
> Ciao, Michael.
I believe that the comment "these benchmarks are meaningless" refers to 
the length of the strings being used in the tests.  Surely something 
involving thousands or millions of characters is more meaningful? Or to 
go the other way, you are unlikely to write
for c in '???????':
     u = unicode(c, 'utf-8')
     ...
Yes?

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From python at lists.wgwh.ch  Fri Aug  7 03:13:04 2009
From: python at lists.wgwh.ch (Oli Schacher)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 09:13:04 +0200
Subject: SMTP
In-Reply-To: <1249615294.4a7b9dbe3a900@www.coe.neu.edu>
References: <1249615294.4a7b9dbe3a900@www.coe.neu.edu>
Message-ID: <4A7BD400.1020404@lists.wgwh.ch>

Sarmad George schrieb:

> msg = "Hello World"

Your sending your message without any headers (no subject etc). So
probably your message lands in the recipients spam folder.

Try:
msg = """To: recipient at example.com
Subject: hello world

Hello there"""


The blank line between the headers and the body is important!

Also make sure to use a sender address that is allowed to send through
your smtp relay. yahoo.com sender is probably a bad idea. Check your
Yahoo Inbox, you might even have a bounce message there telling you that
the final mail server didn't accept your message.



From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Fri Aug  7 03:15:34 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 09:15:34 +0200
Subject: Parsing Binary Structures;
	Is there a better way / What is your way?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <200908070915.34564.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Thursday 06 August 2009 20:50:30 Martin P. Hellwig wrote:
> Thanks all for your insights and suggestions.
> It seems to me that there are a couple of ways to this bit manipulation
> and a couple of foreign modules to assist you with that.
>
> Would it be worth the while to do a PEP on this?
> Personally I think that it would be nice to have a standard module in
> Python for this but perhaps there is a good reason that there isn't
> already one.

I agree that it would be nice - I think it would be nice if something
like this is added to the struct module to give a "this is the obvious
way that python handles foreign data" module

- Hendrik




From Michalek.Jan at uhul.cz  Fri Aug  7 03:21:03 2009
From: Michalek.Jan at uhul.cz (=?iso-8859-2?Q?MICH=C1LEK_Jan_Mgr=2E?=)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 09:21:03 +0200
Subject: one method of COM object needs a variant type variable
Message-ID: <913F77222E913C49A057FDD7BBDEAAA30192B8A0@br-dc.uhul.wan>

Thanks Gabriel,
I seen this before, but I don't know, what's mean 'compatible object'. I need create object who will like as an variant type.
Je.
it looks lieke this:
...
obj=win32com.client.Dispatch('Geomedia.PointGeometry') #geometry object
gss=win32com.client.Dispatch('Geomedia.GeometryStorageService')#geometry strorage object
....
gss.GeometryToStorage(obj, out) #out must be a variant type variable
.....
oRS.Fields("Geometry").Value = out # writing blob into recordset via ADO
 
 
En Thu, 06 Aug 2009 09:37:55 -0300, MICH?LEK Jan Mgr.  

 > escribi?:



> How i can use this type in win32.com? One method of com object (geomedia  

> storage service) needs this variable for storage geometry of geometry  

> object (this variable will be writen into blob in DB). Is possible make  

> this variable in py??



Any compatible object may be used on the Python side, the pywin32 library  

manages the conversion automatically.



See  

http://docs.activestate.com/activepython/2.4/pywin32/html/com/win32com/HTML/PythonCOM.html



-- 

Gabriel Genellina
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Aug  7 03:25:44 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 07 Aug 2009 07:25:44 GMT
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
References: 
	
	<2qcrk6-doj.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	
	
	
Message-ID: <00055a38$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 08:04:51 +0100, Mark Lawrence wrote:

> I believe that the comment "these benchmarks are meaningless" refers to
> the length of the strings being used in the tests.  Surely something
> involving thousands or millions of characters is more meaningful? Or to
> go the other way, you are unlikely to write for c in '???????':
>      u = unicode(c, 'utf-8')
>      ...
> Yes?

There are all sorts of potential use-cases. A day or two ago, somebody 
posted a question involving tens of thousands of lines of tens of 
thousands of characters each (don't quote me, I'm going by memory). On 
the other hand, it doesn't require much imagination to think of a use-
case where there are millions of lines each of a dozen or so characters, 
and you want to process it line by line:


noun: cat
noun: dog
verb: caf?
...


As always, before optimizing, you should profile to be sure you are 
actually optimizing and not wasting your time.



-- 
Steven


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Fri Aug  7 03:38:54 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 09:38:54 +0200
Subject: help with threads
In-Reply-To: <5a744bd6-6b9a-4f46-97c1-bb7fd65b8f4c@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
References: <5a744bd6-6b9a-4f46-97c1-bb7fd65b8f4c@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <200908070938.54928.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Friday 07 August 2009 05:02:10 Michael Mossey wrote:
> Hello,

> My problem is that in some cases, the network thread appears to stop,
> while the main thread is doing a long computation.

Is this computation done in pure python or are you calling some
underlying thing in C?

I would be surprised if a pure python computation thread were to hog
the cpu  - have you been able to figure out what the computation thread is
actually doing when the hogging occurs?

> I'm hoping someone can give me a general idea what to read about. For
> example, under what conditions does a thread stop running? Can other
> threads "take priority"? Are there certain operations that block other
> threads (such as disk access)?

AFAIK python threads are all at the same level of priority, and the running
thread is interrupted every N python bytecode instructions, so what you are
experiencing should not happen.

Try to figure out, if you can, where the computation thread is spending
its time.

- Hendrik


From lists at digital.ktu.lt  Fri Aug  7 03:46:20 2009
From: lists at digital.ktu.lt (Algirdas Brazas)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 10:46:20 +0300
Subject: Pywin32 @ windows 7
Message-ID: <004a01ca1733$a9768c10$4605a8c0@btsc1>

Hi all,

Did anyone manage to get windows extensions installet on windows 7 64 bit? As 
far as I try I get only "Setup program invalid or damaged".

Al. 




From sumit.jha50 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 04:22:14 2009
From: sumit.jha50 at gmail.com (sumit)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 01:22:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: problem
Message-ID: <207a84d7-fb45-46c5-a2fb-e34c564c09f8@v37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

i want 2 hav the header files for regular expression to non
deterministin autometa
so whr should i find it?plz help


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Aug  7 04:47:55 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 10:47:55 +0200
Subject: help with threads
In-Reply-To: <5a744bd6-6b9a-4f46-97c1-bb7fd65b8f4c@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
References: <5a744bd6-6b9a-4f46-97c1-bb7fd65b8f4c@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A7BEA3B.4090000@sequans.com>

Michael Mossey wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I have a simple application that needs one thread to manage networking
> in addition to the main "thread" that does the main job. It's not
> working right. I know hardly anything about threads, so I was hoping
> someone could point me in the right direction to research this.
>
> Basically, I have a program that does some computational work, and
> also conveys its status to a monitor program elsewhere on the network
> via sockets. I wanted to use a thread to manage the networking so that
> the main program can run without regard to networking (i.e. they would
> be asynchronous). So the network thread loops and calls select.
>
> My problem is that in some cases, the network thread appears to stop,
> while the main thread is doing a long computation.
>
> I'm hoping someone can give me a general idea what to read about. For
> example, under what conditions does a thread stop running? Can other
> threads "take priority"? Are there certain operations that block other
> threads (such as disk access)?
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>   
I may be a little out of subject, anyway *if* you are writing also the 
server side program, you should really take a look at
http://docs.python.org/library/xmlrpclib.html
or
http://pyro.sourceforge.net/

... and forget about network coding :o)

To help you for your initial question, exceptions in thread are not 
propagated to the main thread, so when an unhanded exception occurs in 
your thread, it will just stop. Maybe this is what is happening.

A quick workaround is to embed all you threaded code in a try except 
clause and log the exception before re-raising it. You should only do 
that for debugging purpose.

JM


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Aug  7 04:55:51 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 10:55:51 +0200
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
In-Reply-To: <3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
References: 			<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>		<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>	
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro
	ups.com>
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>	
		<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A7BEC17.6040602@sequans.com>

alex23 wrote:
> Paul Rubin  wrote:
>   
>> The PHP docs as I remember are sort of regular (non-publically
>> editable) doc pages, each of which has a public discussion thread
>> where people can post questions and answers about the topic of that
>> doc page.  I thought it worked really well.  The main thing is that
>> the good stuff from the comment section gets folded into the actual
>> doc now and then.
>>     
>
> I'd still like to see this kept out of the official docs as much as
> possible, mostly for reasons of brevity & clarity. I think the
> official docs should be considered definitive and not require a
> hermeneutic evaluation against user comments to ensure they're still
> correct...
>
> How about a secondary site that embeds the docs and provides
> commenting functionality around it? That's certainly a finitely scoped
> project that those with issues about the docs could establish and
> contribute to, with the possibility of it gaining official support
> later once it gains traction.
>
>
>
>   
Very good Idea. I'd like to get a commented/user improved python 
documentation site with examples and I also love the current python 
documentation.

JM


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Fri Aug  7 05:14:30 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 11:14:30 +0200
Subject: Web page data and urllib2.urlopen
References: <469a6df4-92da-4fd1-bffd-5fefa8cdf3ed@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Dave Angel  (DA) wrote:

>DA> Piet van Oostrum wrote:
>>> 
>DA> If Mozilla had seen a page with this line in an appropriate place, it'd
>DA> immediately begin loading the other page, at "someotherurl"  But there's no
>DA> such line.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>DA> Next, I looked for javascript.  The Mozilla page contains lots of
>DA> javascript, but there's none in the raw page.  So I can't explain Mozilla's
>DA> differences that way.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>DA> I did notice the link to /m/Content/mobile2.css, but I don' t know any way
>DA> a CSS file could cause the content to change, just the display.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>DA> All I can guess is that it has something to do with "browser type" or
>DA> cookies.  And that would make lots of sense if this was a cgi page.  But
>DA> the URL doesn't look like that, as it doesn't end in pl, py, asp, or any of
>DA> another dozen special suffixes.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>DA> Any hints, anybody???
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> If you look into the HTML that Firefox gets, there is a lot of
>>> javascript in it.
>>> 

>DA> But the raw page didn't have any javascript.  So what about that original
>DA> raw page triggered additional stuff to be loaded?
>DA> Is it "user agent", as someone else brought out?  And is there somewhere I
>DA> can read more about that aspect of things?  I've mostly built very static
>DA> html pages, where the server yields the same page to everybody.  And some
>DA> form stuff, where the  user clicks on a 'submit" button to trigger a script
>DA> that's not shown on the URL line.

Yes, if you specify a 'normal' web browser as user agent you do get the
Javascript:

import urllib2

request = urllib2.Request('http://www.marketwatch.com/story/mondays-biggest-gaining-and-declining-stocks-2009-07-27')
request.add_header('User-Agent', 'Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.0.13) Gecko/2009073021 Firefox/3.0.13')

opener = urllib2.build_opener() 
page = opener.open(request).read()
print page

-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 05:22:50 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 02:22:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	
	
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	 
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro ups.com> 
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	 
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0067d0ed-95b7-4a97-b2f8-7f35f13c6304@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 7, 12:41?am, alex23  wrote:
...(snip)
> How about a secondary site that embeds the docs and provides
> commenting functionality around it? That's certainly a finitely scoped
> project that those with issues about the docs could establish and
> contribute to, with the possibility of it gaining official support
> later once it gains traction.

This is by far the most helpful and honest post i have ever seen by
our friend alex23. I have a new found respect for you sir, thanks

-R


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Fri Aug  7 05:33:24 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 11:33:24 +0200
Subject: problem
References: <207a84d7-fb45-46c5-a2fb-e34c564c09f8@v37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

>>>>> sumit  (s) wrote:

>s> i want 2 hav the header files for regular expression to non
>s> deterministin autometa
>s> so whr should i find it?plz help

What header files? C? You can find lots of header files by googling. But
the header files contain only the interface, not the implementation. And
conversion from regular expression to non-deterministic automaton is an
implementation matter, so the header file will not help you there. You
will need the C or C++ file.

And then, do you want Python's implementation or any implementation.
Please be specific when you ask something.

Start by googling for regex.h for general software.
Python header file is in
http://svn.python.org/view/python/trunk/Modules/sre.h and the
implementation in http://svn.python.org/view/python/trunk/Modules/_sre.c
but I don't think it goes non deterministic. For that you can better
look into the general 'grep'-like software. For example start here:
http://arglist.com/regex/ 
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From anand at esi-india.com  Fri Aug  7 05:54:06 2009
From: anand at esi-india.com (Anand K Rayudu)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 15:24:06 +0530
Subject: How to reset document  string
Message-ID: <4A7BF9BE.2080702@esi-india.com>

Dear All,

We have extended and embedded python into my our application.
We exposed few APIs to python using

 Py_InitModule("myModuleName", myMethods);
where my methods are

static PyMethodDef VistaDbMethods[] = {
   { (char *)"myAPI",_myAPICFunctionPtr ,METH_VARARGS,"usage: MyHelp)" }


Now problem is ml_doc (Document string). Most of the time the strings 
given by development team is not descriptive enough, so support team 
want to enhance these docstring on need basis and supply to customer
The idea is we will provide get latest help option from application, 
which will contact our webserver or allow user to pick new help 
document,  which will re apply the help on fly.
 From then on our script editors will show the new enhanced help.
How do I achieve this.

I tried to change ..__doc__ = "My new doc"

This failles as it is read only attribute.

Another approach could be calling  Py_InitModule("myModuleName", 
myMethods); with new help string. But It is not working,
So I am not sure what is the right way to do it

Thanks in advance for  all your kind help

Regards,
Anand





From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Fri Aug  7 06:00:42 2009
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 12:00:42 +0200
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
References: 
	
	<2qcrk6-doj.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	
	<028b1ce0$0$5185$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

* Steven D'Aprano (06 Aug 2009 19:17:30 GMT)
> On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 20:05:52 +0200, Thorsten Kampe wrote:
> > > That is significant! So the winner is:
> > > 
> > > unicode('???????','utf-8')
> > 
> > Unless you are planning to write a loop that decodes "???????" one
> > million times, these benchmarks are meaningless.
> 
> What if you're writing a loop which takes one million different lines of 
> text and decodes them once each?
> 
> >>> setup = 'L = ["abc"*(n%100) for n in xrange(1000000)]'
> >>> t1 = timeit.Timer('for line in L: line.decode("utf-8")', setup)
> >>> t2 = timeit.Timer('for line in L: unicode(line, "utf-8")', setup)
> >>> t1.timeit(number=1)
> 5.6751680374145508
> >>> t2.timeit(number=1)
> 2.6822888851165771
> 
> Seems like a pretty meaningful difference to me.

Bollocks. No one will even notice whether a code sequence runs 2.7 or 
5.7 seconds. That's completely artificial benchmarking.

Thorsten


From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Aug  7 06:09:34 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 12:09:34 +0200
Subject: Cython + setuptools not working with .pyx,only with .c-files
In-Reply-To: 
References: <7dvq5fF2e21b7U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
Message-ID: <7e2cquF2c8kj0U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

David Cournapeau schrieb:
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 7:38 PM, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>> I'm trying to build a Cython-extension as Egg.
>>
>> However, this doesn't work - I can either use distutils to build the
>> extension, creating a myextension.c-file on the way.
>>
>> If that's there, I can use setuptools to build the egg.
>>
>> But when I remove the .c-file, the .pyx-file isn't used to re-generate it.
>>
>> This is my setup.py:
>>
>> ----
>> import os
>> import glob
>> from setuptools import setup, Extension
>> #from distutils.core import setup
>> #from distutils.extension import Extension
>>
>> from Cython.Distutils import build_ext
> 
> What happens if you import setuptools *after* Cython.distutils ? My
> guess - I could be wrong - is that both Cython.distutils and
> setuptools monkey-patch distutils, and that setuptools does not "see"
> Cython.Distutils. It could also be an incompatibility between
> Cython.Distutils and setuptools (the design of distutils forces you to
> take into account the details of things modified by every distutils
> extension).

Tried that, nothing changed :(

Diez


From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Aug  7 06:12:23 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 12:12:23 +0200
Subject: need help with an egg
In-Reply-To: <4d881767-ebe3-432c-bc9b-683b80626c97@y4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
References: <4d881767-ebe3-432c-bc9b-683b80626c97@y4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7e2d07F2c8kj0U2@mid.uni-berlin.de>

jo schrieb:
> Hi,
> 
> I am very new to python....
> 
> I created an egg on a machine.  The Python version on that  is 2.5.
> Copied that egg to a machine which has Python 2.6.
> 
> unzip -t Myproj-0.1-py2.5.egg
> The above command shows all the files I need
> 
> When I run the easy_install, I get the foll. error.  Is it because of
> the version?  Or am I doing something wrong?  Or the way I understand
> the egg works is wrong.  Can anyone please help?
> If it's the version issue, does that mean I cannot use that egg on my
> machine with 2.6 version?
> 
> Installed /usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/Myproj-0.1-py2.5.egg
> Processing dependencies for Myproj==0.1
> Searching for Myproj==0.1
> Reading http://pypi.python.org/simple/Myproj/
> Couldn't find index page for 'Myproj' (maybe misspelled?)
> Scanning index of all packages (this may take a while)
> Reading http://pypi.python.org/simple/
> No local packages or download links found for Myproj==0.1
> error: Could not find suitable distribution for Requirement.parse
> ('Myproj==0.1')

Yes, eggs are (at least) python version specific. They can even be 
OS-specific.


Diez


From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Fri Aug  7 06:12:32 2009
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 12:12:32 +0200
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
References: 
	
	<2qcrk6-doj.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

* Michael Str?der (Fri, 07 Aug 2009 03:25:03 +0200)
> Thorsten Kampe wrote:
> > * Michael Str?der (Thu, 06 Aug 2009 18:26:09 +0200)
> >>>>> timeit.Timer("unicode('???????','utf-8')").timeit(10000000)
> >> 17.23644495010376
> >>>>> timeit.Timer("'???????'.decode('utf8')").timeit(10000000)
> >> 72.087096929550171
> >>
> >> That is significant! So the winner is:
> >>
> >> unicode('???????','utf-8')
> > 
> > Unless you are planning to write a loop that decodes "???????" one 
> > million times, these benchmarks are meaningless.
> 
> Well, I can tell you I would not have posted this here and checked it if it
> would be meaningless for me. You don't have to read and answer this thread if
> it's meaningless to you.

Again: if you think decoding "???????" one million times is a real world 
use case for your module then go for unicode(). Otherwise the time you 
spent benchmarking artificial cases like this is just wasted time. In 
real life people won't even notice whether an application takes one or 
two minutes to complete.

Use whatever you prefer (decode() or unicode()). If you experience 
performance bottlenecks when you're done, test whether changing decode() 
to unicode() makes a difference. /That/ is relevant.

Thorsten


From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Aug  7 06:17:50 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 12:17:50 +0200
Subject: How to reset document  string
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7e2daiF2da4u8U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Anand K Rayudu schrieb:
> Dear All,
> 
> We have extended and embedded python into my our application.
> We exposed few APIs to python using
> 
> Py_InitModule("myModuleName", myMethods);
> where my methods are
> 
> static PyMethodDef VistaDbMethods[] = {
>   { (char *)"myAPI",_myAPICFunctionPtr ,METH_VARARGS,"usage: MyHelp)" }
> 
> 
> Now problem is ml_doc (Document string). Most of the time the strings 
> given by development team is not descriptive enough, so support team 
> want to enhance these docstring on need basis and supply to customer
> The idea is we will provide get latest help option from application, 
> which will contact our webserver or allow user to pick new help 
> document,  which will re apply the help on fly.
>  From then on our script editors will show the new enhanced help.
> How do I achieve this.
> 
> I tried to change ..__doc__ = "My new doc"
> 
> This failles as it is read only attribute.
> 
> Another approach could be calling  Py_InitModule("myModuleName", 
> myMethods); with new help string. But It is not working,
> So I am not sure what is the right way to do it

To put the right docstrings into the embedded interpreter. I don't know 
about your processes, but either the support just suggests better 
strings & developers put them in there, or maybe some sort of shared 
header-file could be used that the developers use & support enhances. 
Something like this:


--- docstrings.h ---

#define VistaDbMethods__doc__ "usage: MyHelp"


And if that's enhanced over time by the support-staff, docs will get 
better. Hopefully.

Alternatives are:

  - beating your developers with a clue-stick into submission that good 
docs are important
  - write a usage-guide using e.g. sphinx and release that as add-on-docs.

Diez


From http  Fri Aug  7 06:43:48 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 07 Aug 2009 03:43:48 -0700
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	
	
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro
	ups.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xk51fgazf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

alex23  writes:
> I'd still like to see this kept out of the official docs as much as
> possible, mostly for reasons of brevity & clarity. I think the
> official docs should be considered definitive and not require a
> hermeneutic evaluation against user comments to ensure they're still
> correct...

Such evaluation would only do them good.  The official docs are full
of errors and omissions, which is why we have this thread going on
here in the newsgroup.


From dioxide.software at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 07:09:25 2009
From: dioxide.software at gmail.com (KK)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 04:09:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: pylucene installation problem on Ubuntu 9.04
References: 
	 
	
Message-ID: 

I tried doing something silly.
I went to the directory "/usr/local/lib/python2.6/site-packages" and
then tried to compile/run the file called PyLucene.py the way we
compile/run python scripts, then from there i started the python
interpreter by typing python ( which is actually python2.6), then i
tried to import that module, [un]fortunately it din't give that error
message but something else, you can see below:

kk-laptop:/usr/local/lib/python2.6/site-packages$ python
Python 2.6.2 (release26-maint, Apr 19 2009, 01:56:41)
[GCC 4.3.3] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> indexDir = '/opt/lucene/index'
>>> import PyLucene
WARNING: could not properly read security provider files:
         file:///usr/local/gcc-3.4.6/lib/security/libgcj.security
         file:///usr/local/gcc-3.4.6/lib/security/classpath.security
         Falling back to standard GNU security provider
>>>

then tried to copy and paste my sample code for indexing data to
lucene, this way:


>>> writer = IndexWriter(indexDir, StandardAnalyzer(), True)
>>> title = "this is sample page title"
>>> content = "This is sample page content for testing pylucene tool"
>>>
>>> doc = Document()
>>> doc.add(Field("title", title, Field.Store.YES, Field.Index.TOKENIZED))
>>> doc.add(Field("content", content, Field.Store.YES, Field.Index.TOKENIZED))
>>> writer.addDocument(doc)
>>> writer.optimize()
>>>

----------------------------
and surprisingly it din't give any other error. to crosscheck things i
went to the lucene index directory and fired LUKE and luckily found
that doc being indexed by lucene, even i tried searching for some
words and found they are working fine. So Pylucene seems to be working
partially, in my case. But I think python is not able to load the
PyLucene module (btw, i din't see any __init__ scripts which, i guess,
are used for bootstrapping external modules, right?). Then what is the
fix for this? do we have to add some __init__ scripts to make python
load PyLucene module when it starts? do i sound silly? What is the
best/easiest way to get this working? I've spend quite a lot of time
jsut to make PyLucene running but to no avail.
BTW, I tried to start the python interpreter from other locations and
tried imporitn this PyLucene module but got the same irritating error
message saying "module not found".
Also trying to run my sample indexer from cli using the normal way[kk-
laptop$ python indexer.py] gave the same error message.

Any help/advice is highly appreciated.
Thanks,
KK

On Aug 7, 8:22?am, KK  wrote:
> On Aug 7, 12:38?am, Jon Clements  wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 6 Aug, 19:49, KK  wrote:
>
> > > hi all,
> > > I've trying to install pylucene on my linux box from last 2 days but
> > > not able to do so. first i tried to install it using apt-get like
> > > this,
> > > kk-laptop$ sudo apt-get install pylucene
> > > and it did install python2.5, python2.5-minimal and pylucene. I must
> > > mention one thing that I already had python2.6 on my box as the
> > > default python i.e /usr/bin/python is linked to python2.6. Anyway s,
> > > now i started the python interpreter using "python" command from cli
> > > and then to make sure pylucene has been installed i tried to import
> > > the module and to my surprise it said "module pylucene not found".
> > > I thought I should enter the python2.6 env and do the same , so i
> > > tried starting the python2.6 interpreter using "python2.6" as the
> > > command and tried importing the same module and again it failed giving
> > > the same irritating message.
> > > ?As a final try i pulled the source code of pylucene and as per the
> > > comments given there in the README file, copied the mentioned files to
> > > site-packages directory of python2.6 and then tried importing the
> > > module and then got the same error message saying no module name
> > > pylucene is present. I'm sick of this error !
> > > Can someone point me what is the issue? If it is due to multiple
> > > version of python running on box, can someone tell me which one to
> > > remove or someone tell me how to get the whole thing running? I'll
> > > very much thankful to you guys.
>
> > > Thanks,
> > > KK.
>
> > If you installed using apt, have you a pylucene directory under /usr/
> > local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/?
>
> > Also, if you run python, and import sys; print sys.path
> > whats it show?
>
> > Jon.
>
> Yes I've a dirctory called dist-packages under python2.6 but that
> doesn't contain anything on pylucene [it has lupyne, which i installed
> day before yesterday and importing lupyne doesn't give any error msg,
> but again it is dependent on pylucene]
> # for python the output is :
> ------------------------------
> kk-laptop$ python
> Python 2.6.2 (release26-maint, Apr 19 2009, 01:56:41)
> [GCC 4.3.3] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.>>> import sys
> >>> print sys.path
>
> ['', '/usr/lib/python2.6', '/usr/lib/python2.6/plat-linux2', '/usr/lib/
> python2.6/lib-tk', '/usr/lib/python2.6/lib-old', '/usr/lib/python2.6/
> lib-dynload', '/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages', '/usr/lib/python2.6/
> dist-packages/PIL', '/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/gst-0.10', '/var/
> lib/python-support/python2.6', '/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/
> gtk-2.0', '/var/lib/python-support/python2.6/gtk-2.0', '/usr/local/lib/
> python2.6/dist-packages']
>
> -------------------------------
>
> for python2.5 this is the output:
> kk-laptop$ python2.5
> Python 2.5.4 (r254:67916, Apr ?4 2009, 17:55:16)
> [GCC 4.3.3] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.>>> import sys
> >>> print sys.path
>
> ['', '/usr/lib/python2.5', '/usr/lib/python2.5/plat-linux2', '/usr/lib/
> python2.5/lib-tk', '/usr/lib/python2.5/lib-dynload', '/usr/local/lib/
> python2.5/site-packages', '/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages', '/usr/
> lib/python2.5/site-packages/PIL', '/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/
> gst-0.10', '/var/lib/python-support/python2.5', '/usr/lib/python2.5/
> site-packages/gtk-2.0', '/var/lib/python-support/python2.5/gtk-2.0']
>
> --------------------------------
>
> and for python2.6 the output is this:
> kk-laptop$ python2.6
> Python 2.6.2 (release26-maint, Apr 19 2009, 01:56:41)
> [GCC 4.3.3] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.>>> import sys
> >>> print sys.path
>
> ['', '/usr/lib/python2.6', '/usr/lib/python2.6/plat-linux2', '/usr/lib/
> python2.6/lib-tk', '/usr/lib/python2.6/lib-old', '/usr/lib/python2.6/
> lib-dynload', '/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages', '/usr/lib/python2.6/
> dist-packages/PIL', '/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/gst-0.10', '/var/
> lib/python-support/python2.6', '/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/
> gtk-2.0', '/var/lib/python-support/python2.6/gtk-2.0', '/usr/local/lib/
> python2.6/dist-packages']
>
> From all of the above what I can see is we don't have any directory
> named dist-packages under python2.5 but we've one under 2.6, then
> where did all those pylucene files got installed to after i installed
> it using apt-get? Any ideas?
>
> Thanks
> KK



From andrew at acooke.org  Fri Aug  7 07:29:13 2009
From: andrew at acooke.org (andrew cooke)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 04:29:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Parsing Binary Structures; Is there a better way / What is your 
	way?
References: 
Message-ID: <4c436221-7f6e-43ca-9ece-6b05afac540a@g1g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 5, 10:46?am, "Martin P. Hellwig" 
wrote:
> Hi List,
>
> On several occasions I have needed (and build) a parser that reads a
> binary piece of data with custom structure. For example (bogus one):
>
> BE
> +---------+---------+-------------+-------------+------+--------+
> | Version | Command | Instruction | Data Length | Data | Filler |
> +---------+---------+-------------+-------------+------+--------+
> Version: 6 bits
> Command: 4 bits
> Instruction: 5 bits
> Data Length: 5 bits
> Data: 0-31 bits
> Filler: filling 0 bits to make the packet dividable by 8

hi,

sorry i'm a bit late here, but lepl does exactly this.  also, as you
asked for in another post, the BitString class allows arbitrary
indexing into a sequence of bits.  and because it's part of a
recursive descent parser you can match "anything" (lepl will handle -
although less efficiently - left recursive and ambiguous grammars).

see the example at http://www.acooke.org/lepl/binary.html#matching
which constructs an ethernet frame and then parses it, extracting the
source and destination addresses.

feel free to email me with more questions.

disclaimer: this is quite new and i don't know of anyone that actually
uses it; it is also Python3 only (because it uses bytes()).

andrew




From cournape at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 07:35:24 2009
From: cournape at gmail.com (David Cournapeau)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 20:35:24 +0900
Subject: Cython + setuptools not working with .pyx,only with .c-files
In-Reply-To: <7e2cquF2c8kj0U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: <7dvq5fF2e21b7U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	<7e2cquF2c8kj0U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <5b8d13220908070435i2ee17e9cgb183ee11791d401b@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 7:09 PM, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

>
> Tried that, nothing changed :(

Then you will have to modify Cython.Distutils to be aware of
setuptools, I think (and soon Distribute... ).

David


From garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk  Fri Aug  7 07:49:05 2009
From: garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk (garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 11:49:05 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
References: 
	
	<2qcrk6-doj.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	
	<028b1ce0$0$5185$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Thorsten Kampe  wrote:
> * Steven D'Aprano (06 Aug 2009 19:17:30 GMT)
>> What if you're writing a loop which takes one million different lines of 
>> text and decodes them once each?
>> 
>> >>> setup = 'L = ["abc"*(n%100) for n in xrange(1000000)]'
>> >>> t1 = timeit.Timer('for line in L: line.decode("utf-8")', setup)
>> >>> t2 = timeit.Timer('for line in L: unicode(line, "utf-8")', setup)
>> >>> t1.timeit(number=1)
>> 5.6751680374145508
>> >>> t2.timeit(number=1)
>> 2.6822888851165771
>> 
>> Seems like a pretty meaningful difference to me.
> 
> Bollocks. No one will even notice whether a code sequence runs 2.7 or 
> 5.7 seconds. That's completely artificial benchmarking.
>

For a real-life example, I have often a file with one word per line, and
I run python scripts to apply some (sometimes fairy trivial)
transformation over it. REAL example, reading lines with word, lemma,
tag separated by tabs from stdin and writing word into stdout, unless it
starts with '<' (~6e5 lines, python2.5, user times, warm cache, I hope
the comments are self-explanatory)

no unicode
user    0m2.380s

decode('utf-8'), encode('utf-8')
user    0m3.560s

sys.stdout = codecs.getwriter('utf-8')(sys.stdout);sys.stdin = codecs.getreader('utf-8')(sys.stdin)
user    0m6.180s

unicode(line, 'utf8'), encode('utf-8')
user    0m3.820s

unicode(line, 'utf-8'), encode('utf-8')
user    0m2.880sa

python3.1
user    0m1.560s

Since I have something like 18 million words in my currenct project (and
 > 600 million overall) and I often tweak some parameters and re-run the
 > transformations, the differences are pretty significant.

Personally, I have been surprised by:
1) bad performance of the codecs wrapper (I expected it to be on par with 
   unicode(x,'utf-8'), mayble slightly better due to less function calls
2) good performance of python3.1 (utf-8 locale)


-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------
| Radovan Garab?k http://kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk/~garabik/ |
| __..--^^^--..__    garabik @ kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk     |
 -----------------------------------------------------------
Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus.
Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!


From dmitrey.kroshko at scipy.org  Fri Aug  7 08:00:40 2009
From: dmitrey.kroshko at scipy.org (dmitrey)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 05:00:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: how to overload operator "<  <" (a < x < b)?
Message-ID: <53eb4291-9a78-489a-9a5d-396ec8a9c2af@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>

hi all,
is it possible to overload operator "<  <"? (And other like this one,
eg "<=  <=", ">  >", ">=  >=")
Any URL/example?
Thank you in advance, D.


From davea at ieee.org  Fri Aug  7 08:15:11 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 08:15:11 -0400
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
In-Reply-To: <3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
References: 			<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>		<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>	
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro
	ups.com>
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>	
		<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A7C1ACF.80505@ieee.org>

alex23 wrote:
> Paul Rubin  wrote:
>   
>> The PHP docs as I remember are sort of regular (non-publically
>> editable) doc pages, each of which has a public discussion thread
>> where people can post questions and answers about the topic of that
>> doc page.  I thought it worked really well.  The main thing is that
>> the good stuff from the comment section gets folded into the actual
>> doc now and then.
>>     
>
> I'd still like to see this kept out of the official docs as much as
> possible, mostly for reasons of brevity & clarity. I think the
> official docs should be considered definitive and not require a
> hermeneutic evaluation against user comments to ensure they're still
> correct...
>
> How about a secondary site that embeds the docs and provides
> commenting functionality around it? That's certainly a finitely scoped
> project that those with issues about the docs could establish and
> contribute to, with the possibility of it gaining official support
> later once it gains traction.
>
>
>   
I share your concern about unmonitored comments.  However, it seems a 
useful possibility would be for the "official" pages to each have 
specially-marked links that possibly lead to such user comments.  
Clearly they'd have to marked carefully, so that naive users don't 
confuse the two.  But otherwise, it feels like a good idea.

In my case, I usually access the docs via the Windows help file.  So 
it'd be quite easy for me to recognize that once I've gotten to a 
browser page, I'm not in Kansas any more.  But that could be also 
accomplished by having a very different stylesheet for the user comments 
page.

DaveA



From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Aug  7 08:16:22 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 14:16:22 +0200
Subject: how to overload operator "<  <" (a < x < b)?
In-Reply-To: <53eb4291-9a78-489a-9a5d-396ec8a9c2af@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
References: <53eb4291-9a78-489a-9a5d-396ec8a9c2af@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7e2k8mF2djd57U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

dmitrey schrieb:
> hi all,
> is it possible to overload operator "<  <"? (And other like this one,
> eg "<=  <=", ">  >", ">=  >=")
> Any URL/example?
> Thank you in advance, D.

http://docs.python.org/reference/datamodel.html#object.__lt__

Diez


From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Aug  7 08:21:31 2009
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 14:21:31 +0200
Subject: how to overload operator "<  <" (a < x < b)?
References: <53eb4291-9a78-489a-9a5d-396ec8a9c2af@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

dmitrey wrote:

> is it possible to overload operator "<  <"? (And other like this one,
> eg "<=  <=", ">  >", ">=  >=")

No. 

a < x < b 

is a shortcut for 

a < x and x < b

where x is of course evaluated only once.

Peter




From durumdara at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 08:31:10 2009
From: durumdara at gmail.com (durumdara)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 05:31:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bug or feature: double strings as one
Message-ID: 

Hi!

I found an interesting thing in Python.
Today one of my "def"s got wrong result.

When I checked the code I saw that I miss a "," from the list.

l = ['?' '?']

Interesting, that Python handle them as one string.

print ['?' '?']
['\xf3\xd3']

I wanna ask that is a bug or is it a feature?

In other languages, like Delphi (Pascal), Javascript, SQL, etc., I
must concatenate the strings with some sign, like "+" or "||".

This technic is avoid the mistyping, like today. But in python I can
miss the concat sign, and I got wrong result...

Thanks for your help and for your answer:
   dd




From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 08:33:25 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 05:33:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to reset document string
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 7, 2:54?am, Anand K Rayudu  wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> We have extended and embedded python into my our application.
> We exposed few APIs to python using
>
> ?Py_InitModule("myModuleName", myMethods);
> where my methods are
>
> static PyMethodDef VistaDbMethods[] = {
> ? ?{ (char *)"myAPI",_myAPICFunctionPtr ,METH_VARARGS,"usage: MyHelp)" }
>
> Now problem is ml_doc (Document string). Most of the time the strings
> given by development team is not descriptive enough, so support team
> want to enhance these docstring on need basis and supply to customer
> The idea is we will provide get latest help option from application,
> which will contact our webserver or allow user to pick new help
> document, ?which will re apply the help on fly.
> ?From then on our script editors will show the new enhanced help.
> How do I achieve this.

Sounds very cool.  I have a few ideas.

1. Since you say you are embedding Python in your application, the
most direct way might be to modify the Python interpreter to allow the
__doc__ attribute to be changed.  You'd have to modify the PyCFunction
type (defined in methodobject.h and methodobject.c) to allow
overriding the compiled-in doc field.

2. Instead of replacing the __doc__ attribute of the function, just
replace the whole function with a wrapper.  So, for instance, if your
application decides to update the docstring for myModuleName.myAPI(),
instead of running code like this:

    myModuleName.myAPI.__doc__ = 'new docstring'

run code like this:

    def create_wrapper(func,docstring):
        def wrapper(*args):
            return func(*args)
        wrapper.__doc__ = doc
        return wrapper
    myModuleName.myAPI = create_wrapper(
                 myModuleName.myAPI,'new docstring')

So now myApi is a Python function with the new docstring that calls
the old function.  (Note: if you are concerned with efficiency, it's
possible to write a wrapper in C that has very little overhead.)

This approach has minor disadvantages (such as if any code write from
myModuleName import myAPI--it won't see the new version) but it may be
the easiest approach.

3. Instead of customizing the __doc__ attribute, store any custom
docstrings in a dictionary keyed by the function.

    custom_doc[myModuleName.myApi] = 'new docstring'

Your script editor, when looking for documentation, will first search
in this custom area to see if the docstring has been overridden; if
so, use that; if not, use the docstring.  Something like this:

    def documentation_to_use_in_script_editor(func):
        try:
            return custom_doc[func]
        except KeyError:
            return func.__doc__

That has the negative of the special docstring not being visible at an
interactive prompt.


I have given you some fairly vague answers, hopefully that'll give you
some idea.  It sounds like you have an ambitious project, suggesting
that you are probably good enough to implement the suggestions.


Carl Banks


From davea at ieee.org  Fri Aug  7 08:34:00 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 08:34:00 -0400
Subject: Web page data and urllib2.urlopen
In-Reply-To: 
References: <469a6df4-92da-4fd1-bffd-5fefa8cdf3ed@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>			
	
Message-ID: <4A7C1F38.8010701@ieee.org>


Piet van Oostrum wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>             
> 
>> DA> But the raw page didn't have any javascript.  So what about that original
>> DA> raw page triggered additional stuff to be loaded?
>> DA> Is it "user agent", as someone else brought out?  And is there somewhere I
>> DA> can read more about that aspect of things?  I've mostly built very static
>> DA> html pages, where the server yields the same page to everybody.  And some
>> DA> form stuff, where the  user clicks on a 'submit" button to trigger a script
>> DA> that's not shown on the URL line.
>>     
>
> Yes, if you specify a 'normal' web browser as user agent you do get the
> Javascript:
>
> import urllib2
>
> request = urllib2.Request('http://www.marketwatch.com/story/mondays-biggest-gaining-and-declining-stocks-2009-07-27')
> request.add_header('User-Agent', 'Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.0.13) Gecko/2009073021 Firefox/3.0.13')
>
> opener = urllib2.build_opener() 
> page = opener.open(request).read()
> print page
>
>   
Thanks much.  That's a key I didn't understand.

DaveA


From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Aug  7 08:37:48 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 14:37:48 +0200
Subject: Bug or feature: double strings as one
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7e2lgtF2bpusmU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

durumdara schrieb:
> Hi!
> 
> I found an interesting thing in Python.
> Today one of my "def"s got wrong result.
> 
> When I checked the code I saw that I miss a "," from the list.
> 
> l = ['?' '?']
> 
> Interesting, that Python handle them as one string.
> 
> print ['?' '?']
> ['\xf3\xd3']
> 
> I wanna ask that is a bug or is it a feature?
> 
> In other languages, like Delphi (Pascal), Javascript, SQL, etc., I
> must concatenate the strings with some sign, like "+" or "||".
> 
> This technic is avoid the mistyping, like today. But in python I can
> miss the concat sign, and I got wrong result...

It's a feature. It is sometimes used in cases where you want to split a 
longer text into several lines, but without introducing newlines.

like this (the parentheses are there for the parser not to puke):


foo = ("foobarbaz"
        "padamm")

It has the potential to produce errors as you have seen them, though.

Diez


From s.selvamsiva at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 08:40:49 2009
From: s.selvamsiva at gmail.com (S.Selvam)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 18:10:49 +0530
Subject: pulldom extracting records from recordset
Message-ID: 

Hi all,

I am using pulldom to handle large xml files.It works fine, but i do not
know how to store a particular set of  records(as xml) out of the recordset.
-----------------code---------
from xml.dom import pulldom
hamlet_file = open("input_xml/inp_test.xml")
events = pulldom.parse(hamlet_file)
for (event, node) in events:
  if event == pulldom.START_ELEMENT:
    if node.tagName == "Record":
     events.expandNode(node)
     print node  #this does not work as it is a object
------------------------------

Whenever the node name is a Record,i process it. I want to store the all the
nodes meeting my requirement.
  For eg,i need output as below,

         
            
                 hi
           
           
            ---
           
        

         
            
                 hello
           .
           .
Where input xml might contain 'n' number of Records.
I have been struggling to figure it out.I would be happy to get a solution
for this.

-- 
Yours,
S.Selvam
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From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Aug  7 08:41:36 2009
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 14:41:36 +0200
Subject: Bug or feature: double strings as one
References: 
Message-ID: 

durumdara wrote:

> I found an interesting thing in Python.
> Today one of my "def"s got wrong result.
> 
> When I checked the code I saw that I miss a "," from the list.
> 
> l = ['?' '?']
> 
> Interesting, that Python handle them as one string.
> 
> print ['?' '?']
> ['\xf3\xd3']
> 
> I wanna ask that is a bug or is it a feature?

Feature:

http://docs.python.org/reference/lexical_analysis.html#string-literal-concatenation

Peter



From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Fri Aug  7 08:50:52 2009
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 08:50:52 -0400
Subject: how to overload operator "< <" (a < x < b)?
In-Reply-To: <53eb4291-9a78-489a-9a5d-396ec8a9c2af@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
References: <53eb4291-9a78-489a-9a5d-396ec8a9c2af@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 8:00 AM, dmitrey wrote:
> hi all,
> is it possible to overload operator "< ?<"? (And other like this one,
> eg "<= ?<=", "> ?>", ">= ?>=")
> Any URL/example?
> Thank you in advance, D.

That isn't an operator at all. Python does not support compound
comparisons like that. You have to do "a > b and b > c".
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Fri Aug  7 08:54:31 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 14:54:31 +0200
Subject: Web page data and urllib2.urlopen
References: <469a6df4-92da-4fd1-bffd-5fefa8cdf3ed@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Dave Angel  (DA) wrote:

>DA> Piet van Oostrum wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>> 
>DA> But the raw page didn't have any javascript.  So what about that original
>DA> raw page triggered additional stuff to be loaded?
>DA> Is it "user agent", as someone else brought out?  And is there somewhere I
>DA> can read more about that aspect of things?  I've mostly built very static
>DA> html pages, where the server yields the same page to everybody.  And some
>DA> form stuff, where the  user clicks on a 'submit" button to trigger a script
>DA> that's not shown on the URL line.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> Yes, if you specify a 'normal' web browser as user agent you do get the
>>> Javascript:
>>> 
>>> import urllib2
>>> 
>>> request = urllib2.Request('http://www.marketwatch.com/story/mondays-biggest-gaining-and-declining-stocks-2009-07-27')
>>> request.add_header('User-Agent', 'Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.0.13) Gecko/2009073021 Firefox/3.0.13')
>>> 
>>> opener = urllib2.build_opener() page = opener.open(request).read()
>>> print page
>>> 
>>> 
>DA> Thanks much.  That's a key I didn't understand.

You can even specify the headers in the Request constructor:


url = 'http://www.marketwatch.com/story/mondays-biggest-gaining-and-declining-stocks-2009-07-27'
hdr = {'User-Agent': 'Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.0.13) Gecko/2009073021 Firefox/3.0.13'}
request = urllib2.Request(url = url, headers = hdr)

-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From s.selvamsiva at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 09:04:01 2009
From: s.selvamsiva at gmail.com (S.Selvam)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 18:34:01 +0530
Subject: pulldom extracting records from recordset
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 6:10 PM, S.Selvam  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I am using pulldom to handle large xml files.It works fine, but i do not
> know how to store a particular set of  records(as xml) out of the recordset.
> -----------------code---------
> from xml.dom import pulldom
> hamlet_file = open("input_xml/inp_test.xml")
> events = pulldom.parse(hamlet_file)
> for (event, node) in events:
>   if event == pulldom.START_ELEMENT:
>     if node.tagName == "Record":
>      events.expandNode(node)
>      print node  #this does not work as it is a object
> ------------------------------
>
> Whenever the node name is a Record,i process it. I want to store the all
> the nodes meeting my requirement.
>   For eg,i need output as below,
>
>          
>             
>                  hi
>            
>            
>             ---
>            
>         
>
>          
>             
>                  hello
>            .
>            .
> Where input xml might contain 'n' number of Records.
> I have been struggling to figure it out.I would be happy to get a solution
> for this.
>
> --
> Yours,
> S.Selvam
>

Hi all,
   I just found the solution,
         *node.toprettyxml()*
     has done it.



-- 
Yours,
S.Selvam
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From piet at cs.uu.nl  Fri Aug  7 09:09:29 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 15:09:29 +0200
Subject: how to kill subprocess when Python process is killed?
References: <0feaa2a3-5b73-43e4-9b24-11f157ff6d18@l34g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

>>>>> "mark.v.weber at gmail.com"  (M) wrote:

>M> I am writing a Python program that launches a subprocess (using
>M> Popen).
>M> I am reading stdout of the subprocess, doing some filtering, and
>M> writing to
>M> stdout of the main process.

>M> When I kill the main process (cntl-C) the subprocess keeps running.
>M> How do I kill the subprocess too? The subprocess is likey to run a
>M> long time.

>M> Context:
>M> I'm launching only one subprocess at a time, I'm filtering its stdout.
>M> The user might decide to interrupt to try something else; the user
>M> wants the process and all subprocesses to go away in response
>M> to a cntl-C

>M> I'm new to python; solution must be for Python 2.5 (windows) to help
>M> me.

>M> Any help and/or pointers appreciated.

When the parent dies, the child should die when it's writing on the
broken pipe. At least that's how it works in Unix systems. I don't know
about Windows, however.

To let the dying be fast you should make sure that stdout in the child
is unbuffered.

-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Fri Aug  7 09:10:29 2009
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 15:10:29 +0200
Subject: Is python buffer overflow proof?
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

* Neil Hodgson (Tue, 04 Aug 2009 13:32:55 GMT)
> Thorsten Kampe:
> > You cannot create "your own" buffer overflow in Python as you can in 
C 
> > and C++ but your code could still be vulnerable if the underlying Python 
> > construct is written in C.
> 
>    Python's standard library does now include unsafe constructs.

I don't doubt that. If Python contains a buffer overflow vulnerability 
your code will also be susceptible to that. Please read the link I 
provided as an example.

Thorsten


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 09:48:20 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 06:48:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: how to overload operator "< <" (a < x < b)?
References: <53eb4291-9a78-489a-9a5d-396ec8a9c2af@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 7, 10:50?pm, Benjamin Kaplan  wrote:
> That isn't an operator at all. Python does not support compound
> comparisons like that. You have to do "a > b and b > c".

You know, it costs nothing to open up a python interpreter and check
your certainty:

>>> x = 10
>>> 1 < x < 20
True

This is a _very_ common pattern.

>>> class X(object):
...   def __lt__(self, other):
...     print 'in lt'
...     return True
...   def __gt__(self, other):
...     print 'in gt'
...     return True
...
>>> x = X()
>>> 1 < x < 20
in gt
in lt
True
>>> 20 < x < 1
in gt
in lt
True

dmitrey: Diez' advice was the best you received.


From kdawg44 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 09:52:16 2009
From: kdawg44 at gmail.com (Kevin Holleran)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 09:52:16 -0400
Subject: Changing Remote Registry
Message-ID: <5caea3690908070652v2ccb3ac8s4336266afe71dcb5@mail.gmail.com>

Good morning,

I fear the answer to this is that I just cannot do this....

I wrote a python script that goes out to a bunch of remote machines and
queries the registry for some values.  Effectively, there have been some
software upgrades that have been done as the need arose but we need to do
them across the organization now.  There are three, and the script checks
all three and returns the values.  One of these just needs to be a registry
change as it is a client server application that the server was upgraded and
the clients need a change to a registry value to work.

Long story short, I am using _winreg to do this.

hKey = _winreg.OpenKey (keyPath, path, 0, _winreg.KEY_SET_VALUE)
value,type = _winreg.QueryValueEx(hKey, item)
if (value == wrongValue):
       _winreg.SetValue(hKey,'',_winreg.REG_SZ,correctValue)


When I do this I receive the error:

_winreg.SetValue WindowsError: [Error 5] Access Denied


I am running this from my machine as a domain admin, connecting to the
remote machine which is also on the domain.
I am connecting to the remote registry with:

keyPath = _winreg.ConnectRegistry(r"\\" +
ipAddress,_winreg.HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE)


Thanks for any help.

--
Kevin Holleran
Master of Science, Computer Information Systems
Grand Valley State University
Master of Business Administration
Western Michigan University
Completion December 2009
CCNA, ISA, MCSA, MCDST, MCP

"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a
habit." - Aristotle

"A man flattened by an opponent can get up again. A man flattened by
conformity stays down for good. " - Thomas J. Watson
-------------- next part --------------
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From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 09:53:22 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 06:53:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
References: 
	 
	<2qcrk6-doj.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	 
	<028b1ce0$0$5185$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <556b00a3-bbbf-4076-a300-d20839a313c8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

Thorsten Kampe  wrote:
> Bollocks. No one will even notice whether a code sequence runs 2.7 or
> 5.7 seconds. That's completely artificial benchmarking.

But that's not what you first claimed:

> I don't think any measurable speed increase will be
> noticeable between those two.

But please, keep changing your argument so you don't have to admit you
were wrong.


From stargaming at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 09:59:45 2009
From: stargaming at gmail.com (Robert Lehmann)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 13:59:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: how to overload operator "< <" (a < x < b)?
References: <53eb4291-9a78-489a-9a5d-396ec8a9c2af@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 08:50:52 -0400, Benjamin Kaplan wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 8:00 AM, dmitrey
> wrote:
>> hi all,
>> is it possible to overload operator "< ?<"? (And other like this one,
>> eg "<= ?<=", "> ?>", ">= ?>=")
>> Any URL/example?
>> Thank you in advance, D.
> 
> That isn't an operator at all. Python does not support compound
> comparisons like that. You have to do "a > b and b > c".

Python actually allows you to chain comparison operators, automatically 
unpacking ``a > b > c`` to ``a > b and b > c``::

>>> class C(object):
...   def __lt__(self, other):
...     print self, "LESS-THAN", other
...     return True
... 
>>> a = C(); b = C(); x = C()
>>> a < x < b
<__main__.C object...> LESS-THAN <__main__.C object...>
<__main__.C object...> LESS-THAN <__main__.C object...>
True

>>> x = 42
>>> 40 < x < 50 # between 40 and 50
True
>>> 50 < x < 60 # between 50 and 60
False
>>> 1 == True < 2 == 2.0 < 3 < 4 != 5 > 0 # yikes, unreadable! but legal.
True
>>> # same as: (1 == True) and (True < 2) and (2 == 2.0) ...

HTH,

-- 
Robert "Stargaming" Lehmann



From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 10:05:20 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 07:05:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	
	
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	 
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro ups.com> 
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	 
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<7xk51fgazf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: 

Paul Rubin  wrote:
> Such evaluation would only do them good. ?The official docs are full
> of errors and omissions, which is why we have this thread going on
> here in the newsgroup.

And there is a process for reporting and correcting such errors and
omissions, which is what I pointed out in my post.


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Fri Aug  7 10:08:59 2009
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 07:08:59 -0700
Subject: Problem in installing PyGreSQL
In-Reply-To: 
References: <7aa29e790908032045p3b52a633m8d0e366a0f648b@mail.gmail.com>	<7f0b4d2b1d5bd3f3057ead3b029059b9@preisshare.net>	<20090804084856.b825967a.darcy@druid.net>		<20090804095547.a5274e22.darcy@druid.net>		<7aa29e790908060330x67d900a9rfb4677eaf0eddeb@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Thu, 6 Aug 2009 16:00:15 +0530, "Thangappan.M"
>  declaimed the following in
> gmane.comp.python.general:
>>   File "./setup.py", line 219, in finalize_options
>>     except (Warning, w):
>> NameError: global name 'w' is not defined
>>
>> What would be the solution?
>> Otherwise can you tell how to install DB-API in debian machine.
> 	Sorry... 1) I run on WinXP; 2) I don't build packages, relying on
> pre-built binaries; 3) I run MySQL.
> 
> 	However, based upon the examples in the Tutorial, that line should
> not have the (, ). A parenthesised (tuple) is suppose to contain a list
> of exceptions, and the parameter to catch the exception specifics has to
> be outside the list.
> 
> 	Best I can suggest is editing that particular line and removing the
> (, ) -- then try rebuilding.
> 
> 	I'll also re-ask: All you are installing is the Python adapter to
> the database. DO YOU HAVE A RUNNING PostgreSQL server that you can
> connect to?

Just to be a bit more explict:
Change file setup.py's line 219 from:
 >>     except (Warning, w):
to either (OK in Python 2.6 and greater):
        except Warning as w:
or (works for Python 2.X):
        except Warning, w:


--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Aug  7 10:11:47 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 15:11:47 +0100
Subject: Changing Remote Registry
In-Reply-To: <5caea3690908070652v2ccb3ac8s4336266afe71dcb5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5caea3690908070652v2ccb3ac8s4336266afe71dcb5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A7C3623.5020702@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Kevin Holleran wrote:
> Good morning,
> 
> I fear the answer to this is that I just cannot do this....
> 
> I wrote a python script that goes out to a bunch of remote machines and 
> queries the registry for some values.  Effectively, there have been some 
> software upgrades that have been done as the need arose but we need to 
> do them across the organization now.  There are three, and the script 
> checks all three and returns the values.  One of these just needs to be 
> a registry change as it is a client server application that the server 
> was upgraded and the clients need a change to a registry value to work.
> 
> Long story short, I am using _winreg to do this.
> 
> hKey = _winreg.OpenKey (keyPath, path, 0, _winreg.KEY_SET_VALUE)
> value,type = _winreg.QueryValueEx(hKey, item)
> if (value == wrongValue):
>        _winreg.SetValue(hKey,'',_winreg.REG_SZ,correctValue)
>                
> 
> When I do this I receive the error:
> 
> _winreg.SetValue WindowsError: [Error 5] Access Denied
> 
> 
> I am running this from my machine as a domain admin, connecting to the 
> remote machine which is also on the domain.
> I am connecting to the remote registry with:
> 
> keyPath = _winreg.ConnectRegistry(r"\\" + 
> ipAddress,_winreg.HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE)
> 
> 
> Thanks for any help. 
> 
What is 'ipAddress'? Is it an actual IP address? The documentation says
it should be the computer name.


From invalid at invalid  Fri Aug  7 10:13:33 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 09:13:33 -0500
Subject: Bug or feature: double strings as one
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-07, durumdara  wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I found an interesting thing in Python.
> Today one of my "def"s got wrong result.
>
> When I checked the code I saw that I miss a "," from the list.
>
> l = ['?' '?']
>
> Interesting, that Python handle them as one string.
>
> print ['?' '?']
> ['\xf3\xd3']
>
> I wanna ask that is a bug or is it a feature?

You "wanna"?

> In other languages, like Delphi (Pascal), Javascript, SQL, etc., I
> must concatenate the strings with some sign, like "+" or "||".

In other languages like Ruby, awk, C, C++, etc. adjacent string
constants are concatenated.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Is it clean in other
                                  at               dimensions?
                               visi.com            


From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Aug  7 10:18:55 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 16:18:55 +0200
Subject: how to overload operator "< <" (a < x < b)?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <53eb4291-9a78-489a-9a5d-396ec8a9c2af@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <7e2regF2eqbabU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

alex23 schrieb:
> On Aug 7, 10:50 pm, Benjamin Kaplan  wrote:
>> That isn't an operator at all. Python does not support compound
>> comparisons like that. You have to do "a > b and b > c".
> 
> You know, it costs nothing to open up a python interpreter and check
> your certainty:
> 
>>>> x = 10
>>>> 1 < x < 20
> True
> 
> This is a _very_ common pattern.
> 
>>>> class X(object):
> ...   def __lt__(self, other):
> ...     print 'in lt'
> ...     return True
> ...   def __gt__(self, other):
> ...     print 'in gt'
> ...     return True
> ...
>>>> x = X()
>>>> 1 < x < 20
> in gt
> in lt
> True
>>>> 20 < x < 1
> in gt
> in lt
> True
> 
> dmitrey: Diez' advice was the best you received.

Not really. I didn't get the chaining, and Peter is right that for that 
there is no real overloading.

Diez


From matt.urry at googlemail.com  Fri Aug  7 10:29:46 2009
From: matt.urry at googlemail.com (ma3mju)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 07:29:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Processes not exiting
References: <6cfb2f39-c6d6-4d2a-882c-18f21addf206@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	
	<61d7fcbb-17f8-4314-90b6-0a6db22abd6d@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<01b55c48-3252-4cec-8781-98487a9071ae@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> 
	
	 
	<996e50f5-c126-4ac2-ae8d-458d22a26ee1@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b564f49-712c-408a-b8bd-9cff5af4a4fe@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>

On 3 Aug, 09:36, ma3mju  wrote:
> On 2 Aug, 21:49, Piet van Oostrum  wrote:
>
> > >>>>> MRAB  (M) wrote:
> > >M> I wonder whether one of the workers is raising an exception, perhaps due
> > >M> to lack of memory, when there are large number of jobs to process.
>
> > But that wouldn't prevent the join. And you would probably get an
> > exception traceback printed.
>
> > I wonder if something fishy is happening in the multiprocessing
> > infrastructure. Or maybe the Fortran code goes wrong because it has no
> > protection against buffer overruns and similar problems, I think.
> > --
> > Piet van Oostrum 
> > URL:http://pietvanoostrum.com[PGP8DAE142BE17999C4]
> > Private email: p... at vanoostrum.org
>
> I don't think it's a memory problem, the reason for the hard and easy
> queue is because for larger examples it uses far more RAM. If I run
> all of workers with harder problems I do begin to run out of RAM and
> end up spending all my time switching in and out of swap so I limit
> the number of harder problems I run at the same time. I've watched it
> run to the end (a very boring couple of hours) and it stays out of my
> swap space and everything appears to be staying in RAM. Just hangs
> after all "poison" has been printed for each process.
>
> The other thing is that I get the message "here" telling me I broke
> out of the loop after seeing the poison pill in the process and I get
> all the things queued listed as output surely if I were to run out of
> memory I wouldn't expect all of the jobs to be listed as output.
>
> I have a serial script that works fine so I know individually for each
> example the fortran code works.
>
> Thanks
>
> Matt

Any ideas for a solution?


From kdawg44 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 10:30:37 2009
From: kdawg44 at gmail.com (Kevin Holleran)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 10:30:37 -0400
Subject: Changing Remote Registry
In-Reply-To: <5caea3690908070730g620e4fe5j90219702c5cf5a90@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5caea3690908070652v2ccb3ac8s4336266afe71dcb5@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A7C3623.5020702@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<5caea3690908070730g620e4fe5j90219702c5cf5a90@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5caea3690908070730i1030e8fdgdb108e88588c043c@mail.gmail.com>

>
>  Good morning,
>>
>> I fear the answer to this is that I just cannot do this....
>>
>> I wrote a python script that goes out to a bunch of remote machines and
>> queries the registry for some values.  Effectively, there have been some
>> software upgrades that have been done as the need arose but we need to do
>> them across the organization now.  There are three, and the script checks
>> all three and returns the values.  One of these just needs to be a registry
>> change as it is a client server application that the server was upgraded and
>> the clients need a change to a registry value to work.
>>
>> Long story short, I am using _winreg to do this.
>>
>> hKey = _winreg.OpenKey (keyPath, path, 0, _winreg.KEY_SET_VALUE)
>> value,type = _winreg.QueryValueEx(hKey, item)
>> if (value == wrongValue):
>>       _winreg.SetValue(hKey,'',_winreg.REG_SZ,correctValue)
>>
>> When I do this I receive the error:
>>
>> _winreg.SetValue WindowsError: [Error 5] Access Denied
>>
>>
>> I am running this from my machine as a domain admin, connecting to the
>> remote machine which is also on the domain.
>> I am connecting to the remote registry with:
>>
>> keyPath = _winreg.ConnectRegistry(r"\\" +
>> ipAddress,_winreg.HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE)
>>
>>
>> Thanks for any help.
>>
> What is 'ipAddress'? Is it an actual IP address? The documentation says
> it should be the computer name.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


Thanks for the response.  From my experience that does not matter.  It is an
actual IP address.  I can connect to the registry fine, its just the
writing.  I read that value and other values.  It errors on the
_winreg.KEY_SET_VALUE.  I am wondering if Windows just will not let the
registry be changed remotely in this way or if there is something else I
have to do.

Thanks.
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From matt.urry at googlemail.com  Fri Aug  7 10:31:48 2009
From: matt.urry at googlemail.com (ma3mju)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 07:31:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Processes not exiting
References: <6cfb2f39-c6d6-4d2a-882c-18f21addf206@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	
	<61d7fcbb-17f8-4314-90b6-0a6db22abd6d@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<01b55c48-3252-4cec-8781-98487a9071ae@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> 
	
	 
	<996e50f5-c126-4ac2-ae8d-458d22a26ee1@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1a890fc6-e014-45e7-9eee-2595202b9571@e4g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>

On 3 Aug, 09:36, ma3mju  wrote:
> On 2 Aug, 21:49, Piet van Oostrum  wrote:
>
> > >>>>> MRAB  (M) wrote:
> > >M> I wonder whether one of the workers is raising an exception, perhaps due
> > >M> to lack of memory, when there are large number of jobs to process.
>
> > But that wouldn't prevent the join. And you would probably get an
> > exception traceback printed.
>
> > I wonder if something fishy is happening in the multiprocessing
> > infrastructure. Or maybe the Fortran code goes wrong because it has no
> > protection against buffer overruns and similar problems, I think.
> > --
> > Piet van Oostrum 
> > URL:http://pietvanoostrum.com[PGP8DAE142BE17999C4]
> > Private email: p... at vanoostrum.org
>
> I don't think it's a memory problem, the reason for the hard and easy
> queue is because for larger examples it uses far more RAM. If I run
> all of workers with harder problems I do begin to run out of RAM and
> end up spending all my time switching in and out of swap so I limit
> the number of harder problems I run at the same time. I've watched it
> run to the end (a very boring couple of hours) and it stays out of my
> swap space and everything appears to be staying in RAM. Just hangs
> after all "poison" has been printed for each process.
>
> The other thing is that I get the message "here" telling me I broke
> out of the loop after seeing the poison pill in the process and I get
> all the things queued listed as output surely if I were to run out of
> memory I wouldn't expect all of the jobs to be listed as output.
>
> I have a serial script that works fine so I know individually for each
> example the fortran code works.
>
> Thanks
>
> Matt

Any ideas?


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 10:32:10 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 07:32:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: how to overload operator "< <" (a < x < b)?
References: <53eb4291-9a78-489a-9a5d-396ec8a9c2af@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<7e2regF2eqbabU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <90f46cdb-84cc-47aa-90f4-da0e09472eda@o9g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

"Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
> Not really. I didn't get the chaining, and Peter is right that for that
> there is no real overloading.

I'm sorry, I don't really get why overloading lt & gt isn't an answer
to the OP's question... His terminology may not have been correct but
I'm not sure why it's not a sufficient response.

(then again it is a Friday night and I have been out drinking...)


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Fri Aug  7 10:37:37 2009
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 07:37:37 -0700
Subject: M2Crypto: How to generate subjectKeyIdentifier /
	authorityKeyIdentifier
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	
	
Message-ID: 

Matthias G?ntert wrote:
>> M2Crypto has a couple of bugs open related that, with potential
>> workarounds that I haven't yet deemed polished enough to checkin, but
>> which might help you out:
>>
>> https://bugzilla.osafoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7530
>> https://bugzilla.osafoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12151
> 
> ... Generating the 'subjectKeyIdentifier':
 > ...
> def get_public_key_fingerprint(self):
> 	h = hashlib.new('sha1')
>     	h.update(self.keypair.as_der())
>     	client_serial = h.hexdigest().upper()
>     	client_serial_hex = ''
>     	for byte in xrange(20):
>     	 client_serial_hex += client_serial[byte*2] + client_serial[byte*2
> +1]
>     		if byte < 19:
>     			client_serial_hex += ':'
>         return client_serial_hex 
> ...

More tersely (code golf?):

     def get_public_key_fingerprint(self):
	digest = hashlib.sha1(self.keypair.as_der()).hexdigest().upper()
	return ':'.join(digest[pos : pos+2] for pos in range(0, 40, 2))

--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Aug  7 10:46:56 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 15:46:56 +0100
Subject: Changing Remote Registry
In-Reply-To: <5caea3690908070730g620e4fe5j90219702c5cf5a90@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5caea3690908070652v2ccb3ac8s4336266afe71dcb5@mail.gmail.com>	
	<4A7C3623.5020702@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<5caea3690908070730g620e4fe5j90219702c5cf5a90@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A7C3E60.3060809@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Kevin Holleran wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 10:11 AM, MRAB  > wrote:
> 
>     Kevin Holleran wrote:
> 
>         Good morning,
> 
>         I fear the answer to this is that I just cannot do this....
> 
>         I wrote a python script that goes out to a bunch of remote
>         machines and queries the registry for some values.  Effectively,
>         there have been some software upgrades that have been done as
>         the need arose but we need to do them across the organization
>         now.  There are three, and the script checks all three and
>         returns the values.  One of these just needs to be a registry
>         change as it is a client server application that the server was
>         upgraded and the clients need a change to a registry value to work.
> 
>         Long story short, I am using _winreg to do this.
> 
>         hKey = _winreg.OpenKey (keyPath, path, 0, _winreg.KEY_SET_VALUE)
>         value,type = _winreg.QueryValueEx(hKey, item)
>         if (value == wrongValue):
>               _winreg.SetValue(hKey,'',_winreg.REG_SZ,correctValue)
>            
Hmm. If you're querying with (hKey, item), shouldn't you also be setting
with (hKey, item), not (hKey,'')?

>         When I do this I receive the error:
> 
>         _winreg.SetValue WindowsError: [Error 5] Access Denied
> 
> 
>         I am running this from my machine as a domain admin, connecting
>         to the remote machine which is also on the domain.
>         I am connecting to the remote registry with:
> 
>         keyPath = _winreg.ConnectRegistry(r"\\" +
>         ipAddress,_winreg.HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE)
> 
> 
>         Thanks for any help.
> 
>     What is 'ipAddress'? Is it an actual IP address? The documentation says
>     it should be the computer name.
>     -- 
>     http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the response.  From my experience that does not matter.  It 
> is an actual IP address.  I can connect to the registry fine, its just 
> the writing.  I read that value and other values.  It errors on the 
> _winreg.KEY_SET_VALUE.  I am wondering if Windows just will not let the 
> registry be changed remotely in this way or if there is something else I 
> have to do.
> 


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Aug  7 11:02:09 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 16:02:09 +0100
Subject: Processes not exiting
In-Reply-To: <4b564f49-712c-408a-b8bd-9cff5af4a4fe@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
References: <6cfb2f39-c6d6-4d2a-882c-18f21addf206@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>		<61d7fcbb-17f8-4314-90b6-0a6db22abd6d@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>	<01b55c48-3252-4cec-8781-98487a9071ae@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
		
	<996e50f5-c126-4ac2-ae8d-458d22a26ee1@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4b564f49-712c-408a-b8bd-9cff5af4a4fe@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A7C41F1.3080303@mrabarnett.plus.com>

ma3mju wrote:
> On 3 Aug, 09:36, ma3mju  wrote:
>> On 2 Aug, 21:49, Piet van Oostrum  wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>> MRAB  (M) wrote:
>>>> M> I wonder whether one of the workers is raising an exception, perhaps due
>>>> M> to lack of memory, when there are large number of jobs to process.
>>> But that wouldn't prevent the join. And you would probably get an
>>> exception traceback printed.
>>> I wonder if something fishy is happening in the multiprocessing
>>> infrastructure. Or maybe the Fortran code goes wrong because it has no
>>> protection against buffer overruns and similar problems, I think.
>>> --
>>> Piet van Oostrum 
>>> URL:http://pietvanoostrum.com[PGP8DAE142BE17999C4]
>>> Private email: p... at vanoostrum.org
>> I don't think it's a memory problem, the reason for the hard and easy
>> queue is because for larger examples it uses far more RAM. If I run
>> all of workers with harder problems I do begin to run out of RAM and
>> end up spending all my time switching in and out of swap so I limit
>> the number of harder problems I run at the same time. I've watched it
>> run to the end (a very boring couple of hours) and it stays out of my
>> swap space and everything appears to be staying in RAM. Just hangs
>> after all "poison" has been printed for each process.
>>
>> The other thing is that I get the message "here" telling me I broke
>> out of the loop after seeing the poison pill in the process and I get
>> all the things queued listed as output surely if I were to run out of
>> memory I wouldn't expect all of the jobs to be listed as output.
>>
>> I have a serial script that works fine so I know individually for each
>> example the fortran code works.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Matt
> 
> Any ideas for a solution?

A workaround is to do them in small batches.

You could put each job in a queue with a flag to say whether it's hard 
or easy, then:

     while have more jobs:
         move up to BATCH_SIZE jobs into worker queues
         create and start workers
         wait for workers to finish
         discard workers


From exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  Fri Aug  7 11:02:13 2009
From: exarkun at twistedmatrix.com (exarkun at twistedmatrix.com)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 15:02:13 -0000
Subject: how to overload operator "< <" (a < x < b)?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <53eb4291-9a78-489a-9a5d-396ec8a9c2af@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <20090807150213.13038.275088682.divmod.xquotient.2@localhost.localdomain>

On 12:50 pm, benjamin.kaplan at case.edu wrote:
>On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 8:00 AM, dmitrey 
>wrote:
>>hi all,
>>is it possible to overload operator "< ?<"? (And other like this one,
>>eg "<= ?<=", "> ?>", ">= ?>=")
>>Any URL/example?
>>Thank you in advance, D.
>
>That isn't an operator at all. Python does not support compound
>comparisons like that. You have to do "a > b and b > c".

That's partially correct.  There is no "compound less than operator", or
whatever you want to call that.  However, Python does support "compound
comparisons" like that:

  >>> 1 < 2 < 3
  True
  >>> 1 < 3 < 2
  False
  >>> 1 == 2 == 3
  False
  >>> 2 == 2 == 2
  True
  >>>
Jean-Paul


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Fri Aug  7 11:04:22 2009
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 08:04:22 -0700
Subject: how to overload operator "< <" (a < x < b)?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <53eb4291-9a78-489a-9a5d-396ec8a9c2af@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Benjamin Kaplan wrote:
> .... Python does not support compound
> comparisons like that. You have to do "a > b and b > c".

Funny, my python does.  This has been around a long time.
I am not certain whether 1.5.2 did it, but "chained comparisons"
have been around for a long time.

     >>> 'a'< 'd' <'z'
     True
     >>> 'a'< 'D' <'z'
     False

--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From kdawg44 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 11:05:01 2009
From: kdawg44 at gmail.com (Kevin Holleran)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 11:05:01 -0400
Subject: Changing Remote Registry
In-Reply-To: <4A7C3E60.3060809@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <5caea3690908070652v2ccb3ac8s4336266afe71dcb5@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A7C3623.5020702@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<5caea3690908070730g620e4fe5j90219702c5cf5a90@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A7C3E60.3060809@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <5caea3690908070805q3ff8f208r37a50a670c9f1bc9@mail.gmail.com>

 On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 10:46 AM, MRAB  wrote:

> Kevin Holleran wrote:
>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 10:11 AM, MRAB > python at mrabarnett.plus.com>> wrote:
>>
>>    Kevin Holleran wrote:
>>
>>        Good morning,
>>
>>        I fear the answer to this is that I just cannot do this....
>>
>>        I wrote a python script that goes out to a bunch of remote
>>        machines and queries the registry for some values.  Effectively,
>>        there have been some software upgrades that have been done as
>>        the need arose but we need to do them across the organization
>>        now.  There are three, and the script checks all three and
>>        returns the values.  One of these just needs to be a registry
>>        change as it is a client server application that the server was
>>        upgraded and the clients need a change to a registry value to work.
>>
>>        Long story short, I am using _winreg to do this.
>>
>>        hKey = _winreg.OpenKey (keyPath, path, 0, _winreg.KEY_SET_VALUE)
>>        value,type = _winreg.QueryValueEx(hKey, item)
>>        if (value == wrongValue):
>>              _winreg.SetValue(hKey,'',_winreg.REG_SZ,correctValue)
>>
>>
> Hmm. If you're querying with (hKey, item), shouldn't you also be setting
> with (hKey, item), not (hKey,'')?
>
>
>         When I do this I receive the error:
>>
>>        _winreg.SetValue WindowsError: [Error 5] Access Denied
>>
>>
>>        I am running this from my machine as a domain admin, connecting
>>        to the remote machine which is also on the domain.
>>        I am connecting to the remote registry with:
>>
>>        keyPath = _winreg.ConnectRegistry(r"\\" +
>>        ipAddress,_winreg.HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE)
>>
>>
>>        Thanks for any help.
>>
>>    What is 'ipAddress'? Is it an actual IP address? The documentation says
>>    it should be the computer name.
>>    --    http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for the response.  From my experience that does not matter.  It is
>> an actual IP address.  I can connect to the registry fine, its just the
>> writing.  I read that value and other values.  It errors on the
>> _winreg.KEY_SET_VALUE.  I am wondering if Windows just will not let the
>> registry be changed remotely in this way or if there is something else I
>> have to do.
>>
>>  --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

Sorry, that line is correct, I was removing specific information relevant to
our infrastructure.  That is the valuename.  The error I am getting is:


Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "script.py", line 53, in 
    value,type = _winreg.QueryValueEx(hKey,item)
WindowsError: [Error 5] Access is denied

But the real error is here I believe:

       hKey = _winreg.OpenKey (keyPath, path, 0, _winreg.KEY_SET_VALUE)

When I just do a:

       hKey = _winreg.OpenKey (keyPath, path, 0, _winreg.KEY_READ)

I receive no errors.

Thanks.
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From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Fri Aug  7 11:13:07 2009
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 17:13:07 +0200
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
References: 
	
	<2qcrk6-doj.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	
	<028b1ce0$0$5185$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<556b00a3-bbbf-4076-a300-d20839a313c8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

* alex23 (Fri, 7 Aug 2009 06:53:22 -0700 (PDT))
> Thorsten Kampe  wrote:
> > Bollocks. No one will even notice whether a code sequence runs 2.7 or
> > 5.7 seconds. That's completely artificial benchmarking.
> 
> But that's not what you first claimed:
> 
> > I don't think any measurable speed increase will be
> > noticeable between those two.
> 
> But please, keep changing your argument so you don't have to admit you
> were wrong.

Bollocks. Please note the word "noticeable". "noticeable" as in 
recognisable as in reasonably experiencable or as in whatever.

One guy claims he has times between 2.7 and 5.7 seconds when 
benchmarking more or less randomly generated "one million different 
lines". That *is* *exactly* nothing.

Another guy claims he gets times between 2.9 and 6.2 seconds when 
running decode/unicode in various manifestations over "18 million 
words" (or is it 600 million?) and says "the differences are pretty 
significant". I think I don't have to comment on that.

If you increase the number of loops to one million or one billion or 
whatever even the slightest completely negligible difference will occur. 
The same thing will happen if you just increase the corpus of words to a 
million, trillion or whatever. The performance implications of that are 
exactly none.

Thorsten


From manu3d at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 11:15:08 2009
From: manu3d at gmail.com (Emanuele D'Arrigo)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 08:15:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Executing untrusted code
Message-ID: <137d4d96-c481-4806-a8cf-2904e89c78ae@l35g2000vba.googlegroups.com>

Greetings everybody,

I've been reading and mulling about python and security, specifically
in terms of executing code that may or may not be trustworthy. I
understand that libraries such as Rexec and Bastion are now deprecated
because they have known vulnerabilities that may be exploited to
circumvent the restrictions imposed.

So, am I right in understanding that is not possible to execute a
piece of code in a way that limits the objects and attributes that it
can access or that limits its access to file system and sockets? Are
there best practices to at least minimize some of the risks associated
with untrusted code execution?

And whatever happened to this:

http://sayspy.blogspot.com/2007/05/i-have-finished-securing-python.html

seemed to be a step forward in the right direction!

Manu


From gert.cuykens at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 11:23:52 2009
From: gert.cuykens at gmail.com (gert)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 08:23:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: HTTP_RANGE
Message-ID: <72a8588f-ea26-489a-936d-29462e57c917@p28g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>

def application(environ, response):
    range=environ.get('HTTP_RANGE','bytes=0-').replace
('bytes=','').split(',')
    offset=[]
    for r in range: offset.append(r.split('-'))
    out='0123456789'
    lengthF=len(out)
    lengthC=str(lengthF-int(offset[0][0]))
    bitS=int(offset[0][0])
    bitE=lengthF-1
    bytes='bytes '+str(bitS)+'-'+str(bitE)+'/'+str(lengthF)
    response('200 OK', [('Content-Length', lengthC), ('Content-
Range',bytes)])
    return [out[bitS:]]

C:\Users\gert\Desktop>curl http://127.0.0.1/appwsgi/wsgi/download.wsgi
-v
* About to connect() to 127.0.0.1 port 80 (#0)
*   Trying 127.0.0.1... connected
* Connected to 127.0.0.1 (127.0.0.1) port 80 (#0)
> GET /appwsgi/wsgi/download.wsgi HTTP/1.1
> User-Agent: curl/7.19.4 (amd64-pc-win32) libcurl/7.19.4 OpenSSL/0.9.8j zlib/1.2.3
> Host: 127.0.0.1
> Accept: */*

* HTTP 1.0, assume close after body
< HTTP/1.0 200 OK
< Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 19:05:09 GMT
< Server: WSGIServer/0.1 Python/3.1
< Content-Length: 10
< Content-Range: bytes 0-9/10
<
0123456789* Closing connection #0

C:\Users\gert\Desktop>curl -C 2 http://127.0.0.1/appwsgi/wsgi/download.wsgi
-v
* About to connect() to 127.0.0.1 port 80 (#0)
*   Trying 127.0.0.1... connected
* Connected to 127.0.0.1 (127.0.0.1) port 80 (#0)
> GET /appwsgi/wsgi/download.wsgi HTTP/1.1
> Range: bytes=2-
> User-Agent: curl/7.19.4 (amd64-pc-win32) libcurl/7.19.4 OpenSSL/0.9.8j zlib/1.2.3
> Host: 127.0.0.1
> Accept: */*

* HTTP 1.0, assume close after body
< HTTP/1.0 200 OK
< Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 19:06:52 GMT
< Server: WSGIServer/0.1 Python/3.1
< Content-Length: 8
< Content-Range: bytes 2-9/10
<
23456789* Closing connection #0

Why does it use HTTP 1.0 ? Can I force it to use HTTP 1.1 ?


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Aug  7 11:28:24 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 16:28:24 +0100
Subject: Changing Remote Registry
In-Reply-To: <5caea3690908070805q3ff8f208r37a50a670c9f1bc9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5caea3690908070652v2ccb3ac8s4336266afe71dcb5@mail.gmail.com>	<4A7C3623.5020702@mrabarnett.plus.com>	<5caea3690908070730g620e4fe5j90219702c5cf5a90@mail.gmail.com>	<4A7C3E60.3060809@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<5caea3690908070805q3ff8f208r37a50a670c9f1bc9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A7C4818.10709@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Kevin Holleran wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 10:46 AM, MRAB  > wrote:
> 
>     Kevin Holleran wrote:
> 
> 
>         On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 10:11 AM, MRAB
>         
>                  >> wrote:
> 
>            Kevin Holleran wrote:
> 
>                Good morning,
> 
>                I fear the answer to this is that I just cannot do this....
> 
>                I wrote a python script that goes out to a bunch of remote
>                machines and queries the registry for some values.
>          Effectively,
>                there have been some software upgrades that have been done as
>                the need arose but we need to do them across the organization
>                now.  There are three, and the script checks all three and
>                returns the values.  One of these just needs to be a registry
>                change as it is a client server application that the
>         server was
>                upgraded and the clients need a change to a registry
>         value to work.
> 
>                Long story short, I am using _winreg to do this.
> 
>                hKey = _winreg.OpenKey (keyPath, path, 0,
>         _winreg.KEY_SET_VALUE)
>                value,type = _winreg.QueryValueEx(hKey, item)
>                if (value == wrongValue):
>                      _winreg.SetValue(hKey,'',_winreg.REG_SZ,correctValue)
>                  
> 
>     Hmm. If you're querying with (hKey, item), shouldn't you also be setting
>     with (hKey, item), not (hKey,'')?
> 
> 
>                When I do this I receive the error:
> 
>                _winreg.SetValue WindowsError: [Error 5] Access Denied
> 
> 
>                I am running this from my machine as a domain admin,
>         connecting
>                to the remote machine which is also on the domain.
>                I am connecting to the remote registry with:
> 
>                keyPath = _winreg.ConnectRegistry(r"\\" +
>                ipAddress,_winreg.HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE)
> 
> 
>                Thanks for any help.
> 
>            What is 'ipAddress'? Is it an actual IP address? The
>         documentation says
>            it should be the computer name.
>            --    http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
> 
> 
>         Thanks for the response.  From my experience that does not
>         matter.  It is an actual IP address.  I can connect to the
>         registry fine, its just the writing.  I read that value and
>         other values.  It errors on the _winreg.KEY_SET_VALUE.  I am
>         wondering if Windows just will not let the registry be changed
>         remotely in this way or if there is something else I have to do.
> 
>     -- 
>     http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
> 
> Sorry, that line is correct, I was removing specific information 
> relevant to our infrastructure.  That is the valuename.  The error I am 
> getting is:
> 
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "script.py", line 53, in 
>     value,type = _winreg.QueryValueEx(hKey,item)
> WindowsError: [Error 5] Access is denied
> 
> But the real error is here I believe:
> 
>        hKey = _winreg.OpenKey (keyPath, path, 0, _winreg.KEY_SET_VALUE)
> 
> When I just do a:
> 
>        hKey = _winreg.OpenKey (keyPath, path, 0, _winreg.KEY_READ)
> 
> I receive no errors.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
If it's complaining _as soon as_ you request write permission then I'd
say that was a permissions problem, not an error! :-)


From mark.v.weber at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 11:51:48 2009
From: mark.v.weber at gmail.com (mark.v.weber at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 08:51:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: how to kill subprocess when Python process is killed?
References: <0feaa2a3-5b73-43e4-9b24-11f157ff6d18@l34g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<3733148e-c03d-42ef-88f7-855c516e6564@d9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <63d1512c-4018-467d-a439-25dd76975e5e@g19g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 7, 12:57?am, alex23  wrote:
> On Aug 7, 3:42?pm, "mark.v.we... at gmail.com" 
> wrote:
>
> > When I kill the main process (cntl-C) the subprocess keeps running.
> > How do I kill the subprocess too? The subprocess is likely to run a
> > long time.
>
> You can register functions to run when the Python process ends by
> using the atexit[1] module.
>
> The following has been tested & works under Python 2.6 on Windows XP:
>
> ? ? import atexit
>
> ? ? def cleanup():
> ? ? ? ? print 'stop thesubprocessin here'
>
> ? ? atexit.register(cleanup)
>
> ? ? while True:
> ? ? ? ? pass
>
> [1]:http://docs.python.org/library/atexit.html

Works perfectly. Thanks!


From kee at kagi.com  Fri Aug  7 12:03:37 2009
From: kee at kagi.com (Kee Nethery)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 09:03:37 -0700
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro
	ups.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<7xk51fgazf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
Message-ID: <690C5186-1666-4EF4-B223-AF8880B0C21C@kagi.com>

During all this conversation there was a ticket posted in the bug  
tracking system with the suggestion of each section in the official  
docs linking to a fixed wiki page that can contain user contributions.

The ticket has been closed because this addition to the official docs  
is already in the works.

So ... to everyone who thinks there needs to be a place for user  
comments to augment the official docs, it's supposed to happen. Same  
with corrections to the docs, there is supposed to be a place per  
section where people can post corrections to the docs.

I'm looking forward to the acceleration of improvements to the  
official docs based upon easy to provide user feedback. Glad to see  
that the bug tracking system is going to not be the primary means for  
documentation changes.

Kee



From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Fri Aug  7 12:05:00 2009
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 09:05:00 -0700
Subject: Bug or feature: double strings as one
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <5Y2dnfnYAdsl0-HXnZ2dnUVZ_j9i4p2d@pdx.net>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2009-08-07, durumdara  wrote:
>> In other languages, like Delphi (Pascal), Javascript, SQL, etc., I
>> must concatenate the strings with some sign, like "+" or "||".
> 
> In other languages like Ruby, awk, C, C++, etc. adjacent string
> constants are concatenated.

I must learn this "etc." language, I hear it mentioned all the time :-)

--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org



From rickbking at comcast.net  Fri Aug  7 12:19:21 2009
From: rickbking at comcast.net (Rick King)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 12:19:21 -0400
Subject: py2exe-created exe results in "application failed to initialize"
Message-ID: <4A7C5409.5020807@comcast.net>

Hi everyone,
I want to package up an application into an exe using py2exe but the 
result produces the dreaded

"application failed to initialize 0x....142" error.

I'm using wxPython and basically just took the sample for wxpython GUI 
that came with py2exe and changed the name. My setup is python 2.6, 
wxpython 2.8. My setup.py looks like the following.

from distutils.core import setup
import py2exe
import sys

class Target:
    def __init__(self, **kw):
        self.__dict__.update(kw)
        # for the versioninfo resources
        self.version = "0.1"
        self.company_name = "OWDC"
        self.copyright = "no copyright"
        self.name = "FileTool"

manifest_template = '''

.... etc.
'''

RT_MANIFEST = 24

FileTool = Target(
    description = "FileTool",
    script = "filetoolGUI.py",
    other_resources = [(RT_MANIFEST, 1, manifest_template % 
dict(prog="FileTool"))],
    dest_base = "FileTool")

setup(
    options = {"py2exe": {"compressed": 1,"optimize": 2,"ascii": 
1,"bundle_files": 1}},
    zipfile = None,
    windows = [FileTool],
    )

Any help will be greatly appreciated!

Rick King
Southfield MI USA



From bbarbero at inescporto.pt  Fri Aug  7 12:19:28 2009
From: bbarbero at inescporto.pt (bbarbero at inescporto.pt)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 18:19:28 +0200
Subject: Extracting matrix from a text file
Message-ID: <20090807181928.10784usha588i2a8@horde.inescporto.pt>

Hello to all!!

I am new in python, and I am running it on Mac with Smultron editor. I  
need to read a textfile that includes numbers (in a matrix form),  
indexes, and strings, like this:

Marsyas-kea distance matrix for MIREX 2007 Audio Similarity Exchange
Q/R	1	2	3	4	5
1	0	4.54592	4.36685	5.29463	3.85728
2	4.54592	0	3.97667	5.02151	4.64284
3	4.36685	3.97667	0	4.98743	4.83683
4	5.29463	5.02151	4.98743	0	6.04393
5	3.85728	4.64284	4.83683	6.04393	0



So I just want to keep the matrix in the "middle" for math computations.

	0       4.54592	4.36685	5.29463	3.85728
	4.54592	0	3.97667	5.02151	4.64284
	4.36685	3.97667	0	4.98743	4.83683
	5.29463	5.02151	4.98743	0	6.04393
	3.85728	4.64284	4.83683	6.04393	0

I've seen and tried a lot of ways, like split or isinstance.. but  
never get the wanted result.... does anyone have an idea, or hint?  
Thank you once more for your help!

Best Regards,
Bea

----------------------------------------------------------------
This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Fri Aug  7 12:31:27 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 18:31:27 +0200
Subject: Cython + setuptools not working with .pyx,only with .c-files
In-Reply-To: <7dvq5fF2e21b7U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: <7dvq5fF2e21b7U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <4a7c56e0$0$31871$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> I'm trying to build a Cython-extension as Egg.
> 
> However, this doesn't work - I can either use distutils to build the
> extension, creating a myextension.c-file on the way.
> 
> If that's there, I can use setuptools to build the egg.
> 
> But when I remove the .c-file, the .pyx-file isn't used to re-generate it.

setuptools monkeypatch into distutils to support Pyrex if it's installed,
but most non-bleeding-edge versions do not know about Cython and thus break
the Cython distutils support when Pyrex isn't there as well.

What helps is to put a fake Pyrex installation into your sys.path, like

http://codespeak.net/svn/lxml/trunk/fake_pyrex/

as done at the top of

http://codespeak.net/svn/lxml/trunk/setup.py

I haven't tried if newer setuptools versions have been fixed yet.

Stefan


From sandorl at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 12:32:53 2009
From: sandorl at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?TMOhc3psw7MgU8OhbmRvcg==?=)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 12:32:53 -0400
Subject: question: why isn't a byte of a hash more uniform? how could I 
	improve my code to cure that?
Message-ID: 

Hi all,
I am a Python novice, and right now I would be happy to simply get my job
done with it, but I could appreciate some thoughts on the issue below.

I need to assign one of four numbers to names in a list. The assignment
should be pseudo-random: no pattern whatsoever, but deterministic,
reproducible, and close to uniform. My understanding was that hash functions
would do the job. As I only needed 2 bits of treatment, I picked a byte of
the hashes generated, and even taken mod 4 of it. See the code below.

After I have written a short Python script that hashes my textfile line by
line and collects the numbers next to the original, I checked what I got.
Instead of getting around 25% in each treatment, the range is 17.8%-31.3%. I
understand that the pseudo-randomness means that the treatments should not
be neat and symmetric. Still, this variation is unacceptable for my purpose.
My understanding was that good hash functions generate numbers that look
completely random, and picking only a byte should not change that. I thought
the promise was also to get close to uniformity:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash_function#Uniformity. I tried all the
hashes in the hashlib module, and picked bytes from the beginning and the
end of the hashes, but treatments never were close to uniform (curiously,
always the last treatment seems to be too rare).

Maybe it is an obvious CS puzzle, I'm looking forward to standing corrected.

Thanks!

Laszlo

The script:

#! /usr/bin/python

f = open('names.txt', 'r')
g = open('nameshashed.txt', 'a')

import hashlib

for line in f:
    line = line.rstrip()
    h = str(hashlib.sha512(line).hexdigest())
    s = line + ',' + str(ord(h[64])%4) + '\n'
    g.write(s),
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 12:39:15 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 09:39:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Extracting matrix from a text file
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 8, 2:19?am, bbarb... at inescporto.pt wrote:
> I am new in python, and I am running it on Mac with Smultron editor. I ?
> need to read a textfile that includes numbers (in a matrix form), ?
> indexes, and strings, like this:
>
> Marsyas-kea distance matrix for MIREX 2007 Audio Similarity Exchange
> Q/R ? ? 1 ? ? ? 2 ? ? ? 3 ? ? ? 4 ? ? ? 5
> 1 ? ? ? 0 ? ? ? 4.54592 4.36685 5.29463 3.85728
> 2 ? ? ? 4.54592 0 ? ? ? 3.97667 5.02151 4.64284
> 3 ? ? ? 4.36685 3.97667 0 ? ? ? 4.98743 4.83683
> 4 ? ? ? 5.29463 5.02151 4.98743 0 ? ? ? 6.04393
> 5 ? ? ? 3.85728 4.64284 4.83683 6.04393 0
>
> So I just want to keep the matrix in the "middle" for math computations.
>
> ? ? ? ? 0 ? ? ? 4.54592 4.36685 5.29463 3.85728
> ? ? ? ? 4.54592 0 ? ? ? 3.97667 5.02151 4.64284
> ? ? ? ? 4.36685 3.97667 0 ? ? ? 4.98743 4.83683
> ? ? ? ? 5.29463 5.02151 4.98743 0 ? ? ? 6.04393
> ? ? ? ? 3.85728 4.64284 4.83683 6.04393 0
>
> I've seen and tried a lot of ways, like split or isinstance.. but ?
> never get the wanted result.... does anyone have an idea, or hint? ?
> Thank you once more for your help!


isinstance? Are you just randomly trying functions hoping they'll
work? :)

Untested code follows:

with open(,'r') as textfile:
    header = textfile.next() # skip the header
    col_0_size = 8 # cos it does
    for line in textfile:
        newline = line[col_0_size:] # strip off the index column
        columns = newline.split(' ') # will give you a tuple of
strings
        one, two, three, four, five = map(float, columns) # turns the
strings into floats
        # do whatever you want to those values here

This is fairly standard text handling with Python, if you haven't
already you should really work through the Python tutorial[1],
especially the section on strings [2], and if you have, perhaps David
Mertz's 'Text Processing in Python'[3] may be of use.

1: http://docs.python.org/tutorial/
2: http://docs.python.org/tutorial/introduction.html#strings
3: http://gnosis.cx/TPiP/


From no.email at please.post  Fri Aug  7 12:50:12 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 16:50:12 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: PEP 8 exegetics: conditional imports?
Message-ID: 



Conditional imports make sense to me, as in the following example:

def foobar(filename):
    if os.path.splitext(filename)[1] == '.gz':
        import gzip
        f = gzip.open(filename)
    else:
        f = file(filename)
    # etc.

And yet, quoth PEP 8:

    - Imports are always put at the top of the file, just after any module
      comments and docstrings, and before module globals and constants.

...which seems to condemn conditional imports unequivocally. 

Then again, the PEP 8 scriptures do not explicitly mention conditional
imports at all, as far as I can tell, which leaves open the
possibility that they are still righteous. 

In fact, venerable passages in the Python standard library source
code, if properly interpreted, can be seen to carry out conditional
imports, such as this fragment recovered from random.py:

        if a is None:
            try:
                a = long(_hexlify(_urandom(16)), 16)
            except NotImplementedError:
                import time
                a = long(time.time() * 256) # use fractional seconds

Or even more clearly, this one from test/pystone.py:

if __name__ == '__main__':
    import sys



I seek the wisdom of the elders.  Is there a consensus on the matter
of conditional imports?  Are they righteous?  Or are they the way
of the wicked?

kynn


From invalid at invalid  Fri Aug  7 13:00:47 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 12:00:47 -0500
Subject: Bug or feature: double strings as one
References: 
	
	<5Y2dnfnYAdsl0-HXnZ2dnUVZ_j9i4p2d@pdx.net>
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-07, Scott David Daniels  wrote:
> Grant Edwards wrote:
>> On 2009-08-07, durumdara  wrote:
>>> In other languages, like Delphi (Pascal), Javascript, SQL, etc., I
>>> must concatenate the strings with some sign, like "+" or "||".
>> 
>> In other languages like Ruby, awk, C, C++, etc. adjacent string
>> constants are concatenated.
>
> I must learn this "etc." language, I hear it mentioned all the time :-)

Definitely.  Not only does it have _all_ the features, it even
manages to simultaneously have several mutually-exclusive
features.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! I'm meditating on
                                  at               the FORMALDEHYDE and the
                               visi.com            ASBESTOS leaking into my
                                                   PERSONAL SPACE!!


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Fri Aug  7 13:19:47 2009
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 12:19:47 -0500
Subject: question: why isn't a byte of a hash more uniform? how could
	I    improve my code to cure that?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A7C6233.4050105@tim.thechases.com>

> After I have written a short Python script that hashes my textfile line by
> line and collects the numbers next to the original, I checked what I got.
> Instead of getting around 25% in each treatment, the range is 17.8%-31.3%.

That sounds suspiciously like 25% with a +/- 7% fluctuation one 
might expect to see from non-random source data.

Remember that your outputs are driven purely by your inputs in a 
deterministic fashion -- if your inputs are purely random, then 
your outputs should more closely match your expected bin'ing.  If 
your inputs aren't random, you get a taste of your own medicine 
("my file has just the number 42 on every line...why isn't my 
output random?").  And randomness-of-hash-output is a red herring 
since hashing is *not* random.

Your input is also finite -- an aspect which leaves you a far cry 
from the full hash-space.  If an md5 has 32 bytes (256 bits) of 
data, your input would have to cover 2**256 possible inputs to 
see the full profile of your outputs.  That's a lot of input :)

-tkc






From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Aug  7 13:29:23 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 18:29:23 +0100
Subject: Extracting matrix from a text file
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <4A7C6473.8050602@mrabarnett.plus.com>

alex23 wrote:
> On Aug 8, 2:19 am, bbarb... at inescporto.pt wrote:
>> I am new in python, and I am running it on Mac with Smultron editor. I  
>> need to read a textfile that includes numbers (in a matrix form),  
>> indexes, and strings, like this:
>>
>> Marsyas-kea distance matrix for MIREX 2007 Audio Similarity Exchange
>> Q/R     1       2       3       4       5
>> 1       0       4.54592 4.36685 5.29463 3.85728
>> 2       4.54592 0       3.97667 5.02151 4.64284
>> 3       4.36685 3.97667 0       4.98743 4.83683
>> 4       5.29463 5.02151 4.98743 0       6.04393
>> 5       3.85728 4.64284 4.83683 6.04393 0
>>
>> So I just want to keep the matrix in the "middle" for math computations.
>>
>>         0       4.54592 4.36685 5.29463 3.85728
>>         4.54592 0       3.97667 5.02151 4.64284
>>         4.36685 3.97667 0       4.98743 4.83683
>>         5.29463 5.02151 4.98743 0       6.04393
>>         3.85728 4.64284 4.83683 6.04393 0
>>
>> I've seen and tried a lot of ways, like split or isinstance.. but  
>> never get the wanted result.... does anyone have an idea, or hint?  
>> Thank you once more for your help!
> 
> 
> isinstance? Are you just randomly trying functions hoping they'll
> work? :)
> 
> Untested code follows:
> 
> with open(,'r') as textfile:
>     header = textfile.next() # skip the header
>     col_0_size = 8 # cos it does
>     for line in textfile:
>         newline = line[col_0_size:] # strip off the index column
>         columns = newline.split(' ') # will give you a tuple of
> strings
[snip]
Or:
         columns = line.split(' ')[1 : ]


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 13:29:55 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 10:29:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: PEP 8 exegetics: conditional imports?
References: 
Message-ID: <3d84c940-faea-4b3b-af3c-73059b3eaf96@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 8, 2:50?am, kj  wrote:
> Conditional imports make sense to me, as in the following example[...]
> And yet, quoth PEP 8:
>
> ? ? - Imports are always put at the top of the file, just after any module
> ? ? ? comments and docstrings, and before module globals and constants.
>
> ...which seems to condemn conditional imports unequivocally.

Really? It doesn't mention conditionals at all, it simply says that
imports should occur before globals and constants, not before
conditions. If you want to put conditions around your imports, then
that's the place to do it.

> I seek the wisdom of the elders. ?Is there a consensus on the matter
> of conditional imports? ?Are they righteous? ?Or are they the way
> of the wicked?

Bear in mind that PEP 8 primarily applies to submissions to the
standard library, in order to provide a standard that aids in
understanding them. If a module is used throughout a body of code,
it's helpful to list these modules at the top of the code, for
clarity. However, if a module is only required under exceptional
conditions, you'll often see it imported at the point which it's
required: as the import occurs near the code, this mitigates the
initial requirement somewhat, and reduces the startup time of the
code.

The style guide also states:
    But most importantly: know when to be inconsistent -- sometimes
the style
    guide just doesn't apply.  When in doubt, use your best judgment.
Look
    at other examples and decide what looks best.  And don't hesitate
to ask!

Checks around imports are often used to provide cross-version
compatibility. Embedded imports are often used when the code relying
on them is barely used. These are all very common uses.

pystone is a good example. Nothing within the modular code of pystone
requires sys, it's only imported if the module is executed, primarily
for error reporting & argument handling.


From no.email at please.post  Fri Aug  7 13:35:28 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 17:35:28 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Bug or feature: double strings as one
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

In  Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> writes:

>durumdara wrote:

>> I found an interesting thing in Python.
>> Today one of my "def"s got wrong result.
>> 
>> When I checked the code I saw that I miss a "," from the list.
>> 
>> l = ['??' '??']
>> 
>> Interesting, that Python handle them as one string.
>> 
>> print ['??' '??']
>> ['\xf3\xd3']
>> 
>> I wanna ask that is a bug or is it a feature?

Feature, as others have pointed out, though I fail to see the need
for it, given that Python's general syntax for string (as opposed
to string literal) concatenation is already so convenient.  I.e.,
I fail to see why

x = ("first part of a very long string "
     "second part of a very long string")

is so much better than

x = ("first part of a very long string " +
     "second part of a very long string")

FWIW, C has the same concatenation feature for string literals.
E.g., the following is valid C:

printf("first part of a very long string "
       "second part of a very long string\n");

kynn



From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 13:37:02 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 10:37:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Extracting matrix from a text file
References:  
	 
	
Message-ID: 

MRAB  wrote:
> Or:
> ? ? ? ? ?columns = line.split(' ')[1 : ]

Even better, well spotted.


From garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk  Fri Aug  7 13:41:38 2009
From: garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk (garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 17:41:38 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
References: 
	
	<2qcrk6-doj.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	
	<028b1ce0$0$5185$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<556b00a3-bbbf-4076-a300-d20839a313c8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Thorsten Kampe  wrote:
 
> lines". That *is* *exactly* nothing.
> 
> Another guy claims he gets times between 2.9 and 6.2 seconds when 
> running decode/unicode in various manifestations over "18 million 


over a sample of 600000 words (sorry for not being able to explain
myself clear enough so that everyone understands)
while my current project is 18e6 words, that is the overall running time
will be 87 vs. 186 seconds, which is fairly noticeable.

> words" (or is it 600 million?) and says "the differences are pretty 
> significant". 

600 million is the size of the whole corpus, that translates to
48 minutes vs. 1h43min. That already is a huge difference (going to
lunch during noon or waiting another hour until it runs over - and 
you can bet it is _very_ noticeable when I am hungry :-)).

With 9 different versions of the corpus (that is, what we are really
using now) that goes to 7.2 hours (or even less with python3.1!) vs. 15
hours. Being able to re-run the whole corpus generation in one working
day (and then go on with the next issues) vs. working overtime or
delivering the corpus one day later is a huge difference. Like, being
one day behind the schedule.

> I think I don't have to comment on that.

Indeed, the numbers are self-explanatory.

> 
> If you increase the number of loops to one million or one billion or 
> whatever even the slightest completely negligible difference will occur. 
> The same thing will happen if you just increase the corpus of words to a 
> million, trillion or whatever. The performance implications of that are 
> exactly none.
> 

I am not sure I understood that. Must be my English :-)

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------
| Radovan Garab?k http://kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk/~garabik/ |
| __..--^^^--..__    garabik @ kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk     |
 -----------------------------------------------------------
Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus.
Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 13:43:05 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 10:43:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	 
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro ups.com> 
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	 
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<7xk51fgazf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 7, 11:03?am, Kee Nethery  wrote:
...(snip)
> I'm looking forward to the acceleration of improvements to the ?
> official docs based upon easy to provide user feedback. Glad to see ?
> that the bug tracking system is going to not be the primary means for ?
> documentation changes.

+1



From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 13:43:13 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 10:43:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bug or feature: double strings as one
References: 
	 
Message-ID: <1de1eadf-6a2a-414c-a7cf-cf235edadcfb@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

kj  wrote:
> Feature, as others have pointed out, though I fail to see the need
> for it, given that Python's general syntax for string (as opposed
> to string literal) concatenation is already so convenient. ?I.e.,
> I fail to see why
>
> x = ("first part of a very long string "
> ? ? ?"second part of a very long string")
>
> is so much better than
>
> x = ("first part of a very long string " +
> ? ? ?"second part of a very long string")

My impression is it's mostly for one of clarity. It's especially
useful with regular expressions, as it allows for comments to document
each element of the regex (following example shamelessly taken from
the docs (albeit with personal preferences on formatting))):

re.compile(
    "[A-Za-z_]"       # letter or underscore
    "[A-Za-z0-9_]*"   # letter, digit or underscore
)

Not having the plus sign present does assist (IMO) in the ease of
parsing the regex.
re.compile(


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 13:45:29 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 10:45:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
References: 
	 
	<2qcrk6-doj.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	 
	<028b1ce0$0$5185$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	 
	<556b00a3-bbbf-4076-a300-d20839a313c8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com> 
	 
Message-ID: <006e7808-74e7-4d29-a7bc-01492d14de65@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

garabik-news-2005... at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk wrote:
> I am not sure I understood that. Must be my English :-)

I just parsed it as "blah blah blah I won't admit I'm wrong" and
didn't miss anything substantive.




From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 13:48:22 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 10:48:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	 
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro ups.com> 
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	 
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<7xk51fgazf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

Kee Nethery  wrote:
> I'm looking forward to the acceleration of improvements to the ?
> official docs based upon easy to provide user feedback. Glad to see ?
> that the bug tracking system is going to not be the primary means for ?
> documentation changes.

I'm not sure what you see as being fundamentally different between
open access to a bug tracker & open access to a wiki, other than it
being a lot more difficult to have threaded discussion on a wiki.

Why exactly is posting an open comment on a bug tracker somehow
inferior to posting an open comment on a wiki?


From abecedarian314159 at yahoo.com  Fri Aug  7 13:51:17 2009
From: abecedarian314159 at yahoo.com (William)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 10:51:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: questions about object references
Message-ID: <786181.46665.qm@web110610.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

I have a question.? Suppose I do the following:

def myfunc(a,b):
? return a+b

myfunc2=myfunc

is there anyway to find all of the references to myfunc?? That is, can I find out all of the functions that may be aliased to myfunc?

second question:



class MyClass(object):
?def __init__(a,b):
?? self.a=a
?? self.b=b
? def myfunc(self):
??? return self.a+self.b

myclass=MyClass(3,4)
myclass.myfunc2=myclass.myfunc

Is there any way to find all the references to myclass.myfunc--in this case,
myclass.myfunc2?

Thanks,
William

is there a way to 





      
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From drobinow at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 14:05:35 2009
From: drobinow at gmail.com (David Robinow)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 14:05:35 -0400
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
In-Reply-To: 
References:  
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<7xk51fgazf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
	
	
Message-ID: <4eb0089f0908071105i5180b861rea513c70bf8f9655@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 1:48 PM, alex23 wrote:
> Why exactly is posting an open comment on a bug tracker somehow
> inferior to posting an open comment on a wiki?
 When one believes that development is controlled by a cabal which is
jealous of outsiders and actively prevents improvements to the docs,
any change, even if only in perception, helps to weaken the hold of
the evil forces holding back the success of Python.


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Fri Aug  7 14:08:22 2009
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 19:08:22 +0100
Subject: Changing Remote Registry
In-Reply-To: <5caea3690908070652v2ccb3ac8s4336266afe71dcb5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5caea3690908070652v2ccb3ac8s4336266afe71dcb5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A7C6D96.3000201@timgolden.me.uk>

Kevin Holleran wrote:
> Long story short, I am using _winreg to do this.
> 
> hKey = _winreg.OpenKey (keyPath, path, 0, _winreg.KEY_SET_VALUE)
> value,type = _winreg.QueryValueEx(hKey, item)
> if (value == wrongValue):
>        _winreg.SetValue(hKey,'',_winreg.REG_SZ,correctValue)
> 
> 
> When I do this I receive the error:
> 
> _winreg.SetValue WindowsError: [Error 5] Access Denied

As an alternative, try using WMI instead. You'll have to look up the docs
a bit, but to get you started:


import wmi

reg = wmi.WMI ("remote-machine", namespace="default").StdRegProv

print reg.methods.keys ()



TJG


From vorticitywolfe at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 14:17:28 2009
From: vorticitywolfe at gmail.com (J Wolfe)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 11:17:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: passing menu label to function
Message-ID: <44f84fe8-0dce-463f-b37f-b02f241bf93a@e34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I would like to pass the label name of a menu to the command it is
calling, is that possible?

self.menuitem.menu.add_command(label="pass this",command = lambda i =
self.self.menuitem.menu.cget("label"): self.function(i))

def function(self, i)
     print i   # print the label name


Any help would be appreciated!
Thanks!
Jonathan


From marduk at letterboxes.org  Fri Aug  7 14:18:51 2009
From: marduk at letterboxes.org (Albert Hopkins)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 14:18:51 -0400
Subject: PEP 8 exegetics: conditional imports?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <1249669131.8286.32.camel@centar>

On Fri, 2009-08-07 at 16:50 +0000, kj wrote:
> 
> Conditional imports make sense to me, as in the following example:
> 
> def foobar(filename):
>     if os.path.splitext(filename)[1] == '.gz':
>         import gzip
>         f = gzip.open(filename)
>     else:
>         f = file(filename)
>     # etc.
> 
> And yet, quoth PEP 8:
> 
>     - Imports are always put at the top of the file, just after any module
>       comments and docstrings, and before module globals and constants.
> 
> ...which seems to condemn conditional imports unequivocally. 
> 
> Then again, the PEP 8 scriptures do not explicitly mention conditional
> imports at all, as far as I can tell, which leaves open the
> possibility that they are still righteous. 
> 
> In fact, venerable passages in the Python standard library source
> code, if properly interpreted, can be seen to carry out conditional
> imports, such as this fragment recovered from random.py:
> 
>         if a is None:
>             try:
>                 a = long(_hexlify(_urandom(16)), 16)
>             except NotImplementedError:
>                 import time
>                 a = long(time.time() * 256) # use fractional seconds
> 
> Or even more clearly, this one from test/pystone.py:
> 
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     import sys
> 
> 

I can't speak for others... but generally you can "tell" when an import
belongs at the top of a module and when you need to make exceptions.  I
would say that, as a general rule, they go up top (easier to identify
what external dependencies a module have).  There are, of course,
exceptions:

      * Exceptions and other not-often-executed blocks
      * Inside test functions (where the imported modules are only used
        by tests
      * Inside main() functions where the imported modules are only used
        if the module is run as a script
      * When startup-time is important. Often it's necessary to have you
        module up and running in an instant and import "expensive"
        modules as-needed.
      * "Dynamic" import such as plugins, etc.

Of course, like everything else in PEP 8, it's meant as a "guide" and
not as an "order".  YMMV.

-a




From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 14:30:41 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 11:30:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References:   
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<7xk51fgazf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: <56e513e5-63cd-479d-94b2-0f10f617d4a0@d4g2000prc.googlegroups.com>

David Robinow  wrote:
> ?When one believes that development is controlled by a cabal which is
> jealous of outsiders and actively prevents improvements to the docs,
> any change, even if only in perception, helps to weaken the hold of
> the evil forces holding back the success of Python.

Yeah, it's clearly all ego and assholes that's preventing Python from
being the enochian equivalent of programming languages :)


From marduk at letterboxes.org  Fri Aug  7 14:35:52 2009
From: marduk at letterboxes.org (Albert Hopkins)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 14:35:52 -0400
Subject: PEP 8 exegetics: conditional imports?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <1249670152.8286.43.camel@centar>

On Fri, 2009-08-07 at 16:50 +0000, kj wrote:
> 
> Conditional imports make sense to me, as in the following example:
> 
> def foobar(filename):
>     if os.path.splitext(filename)[1] == '.gz':
>         import gzip
>         f = gzip.open(filename)
>     else:
>         f = file(filename)
>     # etc.
> 

I should add that in your example I would probably still put the import
at the top, e.g.:

import gzip
[...]

def foobar(filename):
    if os.path.splitext(filename)[1] == '.gz':
        f = gzip.open(filename)
    else:
        f = open(filename)

Reason being is that if later on I decide I want to write another
function inside my module that does the same thing I don't have to do
the same conditional import.

Even better, if this is something you find yourself doing often you can
create your own "smart" open and put it in a library:

# file anyfile

import __builtin__
import gzip

def open(filename, ...):
    if filename.endswith('.gz'):
        f = gzip.open(filename, ...)
    else:
        f = __builtin__.open(f, ...)

    return f

Then:

>>> import anyfile
>>> f = anyfile.open(filename, ...)

-a




From keith.hughitt at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 14:42:42 2009
From: keith.hughitt at gmail.com (pwnedd)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 11:42:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Database query execution times in Python?
Message-ID: <24870050.post@talk.nabble.com>


Hi all,

I've been writing some code using libraries based on the Python Database API
2.0 (MySQLdb & pg), and so far things are working really well. There is one
thing that I have not been able to figure out how to do, however: 

Retrieve the time is took a given query to execute.

Does anyone know if this is possible?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
Keith


-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Database-query-execution-times-in-Python--tp24870050p24870050.html
Sent from the Python - python-list mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From SandorL at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 14:48:16 2009
From: SandorL at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?L=E1szl=F3_S=E1ndor?=)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 14:48:16 -0400
Subject: question: why isn't a byte of a hash more uniform? how could I
	improve my code to cure that?
References: 
Message-ID: 

Thank you, Tim. My comments are below.

On 2009-08-07 13:19:47 -0400, Tim Chase  said:

>> After I have written a short Python script that hashes my textfile line by
>> line and collects the numbers next to the original, I checked what I got.
>> Instead of getting around 25% in each treatment, the range is 17.8%-31.3%.
> 
> That sounds suspiciously like 25% with a +/- 7% fluctuation one might 
> expect to see from non-random source data.

Could you help me where this range comes from? (If all my lines were 
"42", I wouldn't hit this range. So it cannot be a rule. Right?)

> 
> Remember that your outputs are driven purely by your inputs in a 
> deterministic fashion -- if your inputs are purely random, then your 
> outputs should more closely match your expected bin'ing.  If your 
> inputs aren't random, you get a taste of your own medicine ("my file 
> has just the number 42 on every line...why isn't my output random?").  
> And randomness-of-hash-output is a red herring since hashing is *not* 
> random.

Thanks, I tried to be correct with "pseudo-random". I understand that 
everything is dependent on input. I want it to be the case. However, I 
hoped that good hashes produce random-looking output from input with 
very little variation. It would be strange if I could not get more than 
18% of lines with a remainder of 3 (after division by 4), whatever hash 
I try just because these are names of people.

> 
> Your input is also finite -- an aspect which leaves you a far cry from 
> the full hash-space.  If an md5 has 32 bytes (256 bits) of data, your 
> input would have to cover 2**256 possible inputs to see the full 
> profile of your outputs.  That's a lot of input :)
> 
> -tkc

OK, I understand. Could anyone suggest a better way to do this, then?

(Recap: random-looking, close-to uniform assignment of one number out 
of four possibilities to strings.)

Thanks, everyone.

Laszlo



From REMpeteOVE at petezilla.co.uk  Fri Aug  7 15:04:41 2009
From: REMpeteOVE at petezilla.co.uk (Peter Chant)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 20:04:41 +0100
Subject: Setuptools - help!
References: 
	
Message-ID: <9fauk6-t24.ln1@phoenix.fire>

Robert Kern wrote:

> You need to put main.py into the pphoto package.
> 
> $ mkdir pphoto/
> $ mv main.py pphoto/
> $ touch pphoto/__init__.py
> 

Thanks, it worked.  Any ideas how to run the resulting scripts without
installing or running as root?

Pete


-- 
http://www.petezilla.co.uk


From nagle at animats.com  Fri Aug  7 15:06:47 2009
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 12:06:47 -0700
Subject: Module updating plans for Python 3.1: feedparser, MySQLdb
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4a739a96$0$1615$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	
Message-ID: <4a7c7a50$0$1586$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

Buck wrote:
> I use MySQLdb quite a bit in my work. I could volunteer to help update
> it. Are there any particular bugs we're talking about or just a
> straight port to 3.0?

    It's a non-trivial port.  There's a release candidate for Python 2.6;
see

https://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?release_id=672239

but that was back in March and hasn't advanced since then.

There's an unofficial port of MySQLdb to
Python 2.6 for Windows.  See

https://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?thread_id=3108914&forum_id=70460

The MySQLdb developer says that conversion to 3.0 is hard, and he's busy
doing other things.

					John Nagle


From nagle at animats.com  Fri Aug  7 15:07:48 2009
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 12:07:48 -0700
Subject: Is "feedparser" deprecated?
Message-ID: <4a7c7a8d$0$1661$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

   Feedparser requires SGMLlib, which has been removed from Python 3.0.
Feedparser hasn't been updated since 2007. Does this mean Feedparser
is dead?

				John Nagle


From van.lindberg at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 15:15:55 2009
From: van.lindberg at gmail.com (VanL)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 14:15:55 -0500
Subject: Survey: Does your company use Python? Do you know a company that
	uses Python?
Message-ID: 

This is a survey to find as many companies using Python as we can. You 
can see the survey below:



You don't need to work at the company to add it to this list! We will 
filter for duplicates.

The answers to this survey will be kept private. If you still don't want 
to identify yourself, no problem! We just want to know where Python is 
being used.




From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Fri Aug  7 15:15:56 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 12:15:56 -0700
Subject: question: why isn't a byte of a hash more uniform? how could
	I	improve my code to cure that?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <4A7C7D6C.4020904@stoneleaf.us>

L?szl? S?ndor wrote:
> Thank you, Tim. My comments are below.
> 
> On 2009-08-07 13:19:47 -0400, Tim Chase  
> said:
> 
>>> After I have written a short Python script that hashes my textfile 
>>> line by
>>> line and collects the numbers next to the original, I checked what I 
>>> got.
>>> Instead of getting around 25% in each treatment, the range is 
>>> 17.8%-31.3%.
>>
>>
>> That sounds suspiciously like 25% with a +/- 7% fluctuation one might 
>> expect to see from non-random source data.
> 
> 
> Could you help me where this range comes from? (If all my lines were 
> "42", I wouldn't hit this range. So it cannot be a rule. Right?)
> 
>>
>> Remember that your outputs are driven purely by your inputs in a 
>> deterministic fashion -- if your inputs are purely random, then your 
>> outputs should more closely match your expected bin'ing.  If your 
>> inputs aren't random, you get a taste of your own medicine ("my file 
>> has just the number 42 on every line...why isn't my output random?").  
>> And randomness-of-hash-output is a red herring since hashing is *not* 
>> random.
> 
> 
> Thanks, I tried to be correct with "pseudo-random". I understand that 
> everything is dependent on input. I want it to be the case. However, I 
> hoped that good hashes produce random-looking output from input with 
> very little variation. It would be strange if I could not get more than 
> 18% of lines with a remainder of 3 (after division by 4), whatever hash 
> I try just because these are names of people.
> 
>>
>> Your input is also finite -- an aspect which leaves you a far cry from 
>> the full hash-space.  If an md5 has 32 bytes (256 bits) of data, your 
>> input would have to cover 2**256 possible inputs to see the full 
>> profile of your outputs.  That's a lot of input :)
>>
>> -tkc
> 
> 
> OK, I understand. Could anyone suggest a better way to do this, then?
> 
> (Recap: random-looking, close-to uniform assignment of one number out of 
> four possibilities to strings.)
> 
> Thanks, everyone.
> 
> Laszlo
> 

Well,  a very simplistic method is to use the length of the input string 
modulus four.  If the names have decently "random" lengths, that may work.

~Ethan~


From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Aug  7 15:26:13 2009
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 21:26:13 +0200
Subject: passing menu label to function
References: <44f84fe8-0dce-463f-b37f-b02f241bf93a@e34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

J Wolfe wrote:

> I would like to pass the label name of a menu to the command it is
> calling, is that possible?
> 
> self.menuitem.menu.add_command(label="pass this",command = lambda i =
> self.self.menuitem.menu.cget("label"): self.function(i))
> 
> def function(self, i)
>      print i   # print the label name

A simple pure-python approach:

def add_command_with_label(menu, label, command):
    menu.add_command(label=label, command=lambda: command(label))

# ...

function = self.function
menu = self.menuitem.menu
add_command_with_label(menu, "pass this", function)

Alternatively, if you plan to change the labels during runtime:

index = 1 # indices start at 1, not 0
menu.add_command(label="whatever", command=lambda index=index, menu=menu: 
function(menu.entrycget(index, "label")))

(all untested, likely to contain typos)

Peter



From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Aug  7 15:42:16 2009
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 21:42:16 +0200
Subject: PEP 8 exegetics: conditional imports?
References: 
Message-ID: 

kj wrote:

> Conditional imports make sense to me, as in the following example:
> 
> def foobar(filename):
>     if os.path.splitext(filename)[1] == '.gz':
>         import gzip
>         f = gzip.open(filename)
>     else:
>         f = file(filename)
>     # etc.
> 
> And yet, quoth PEP 8:
> 
>     - Imports are always put at the top of the file, just after any module
>       comments and docstrings, and before module globals and constants.
> 
> ...which seems to condemn conditional imports unequivocally.
> 
> Then again, the PEP 8 scriptures do not explicitly mention conditional
> imports at all, as far as I can tell, which leaves open the
> possibility that they are still righteous.
> 
> In fact, venerable passages in the Python standard library source
> code, if properly interpreted, can be seen to carry out conditional
> imports, such as this fragment recovered from random.py:
> 
>         if a is None:
>             try:
>                 a = long(_hexlify(_urandom(16)), 16)
>             except NotImplementedError:
>                 import time
>                 a = long(time.time() * 256) # use fractional seconds
> 
> Or even more clearly, this one from test/pystone.py:
> 
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     import sys
> 
> 
> 
> I seek the wisdom of the elders.  Is there a consensus on the matter
> of conditional imports?  Are they righteous?  Or are they the way
> of the wicked?

If you want to take a rational approach measure speed and memory footprint 
of your program both with the conditional and unconditional imports. Then go 
with the conditional imports only if you can demonstrate a noticeable 
benefit.

This criterion is unlikely to be met for the examples you give above. time 
is a built-in module, and gzip a thin wrapper around zlib which is also 
built-in.

Peter



From lists at cheimes.de  Fri Aug  7 15:44:57 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 21:44:57 +0200
Subject: PEP 8 exegetics: conditional imports?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

kj wrote:
> I seek the wisdom of the elders.  Is there a consensus on the matter
> of conditional imports?  Are they righteous?  Or are they the way
> of the wicked?

imports in functions are dangerous and may lead to dead locks if they 
are mixed with threads. An import should never start a thread and you 
should avoid to import code in threads.

Christian



From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 15:57:11 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 12:57:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is "feedparser" deprecated?
References: <4a7c7a8d$0$1661$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <61d0b767-144b-4e3b-96dd-afe71904d619@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

John Nagle  wrote:
> ? ?Feedparser requires SGMLlib, which has been removed from Python 3.0.
> Feedparser hasn't been updated since 2007. Does this mean Feedparser
> is dead?

Wouldn't you be better served asking this on the feedparser bug
tracker?

http://code.google.com/p/feedparser/issues/list


From vorticitywolfe at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 16:00:11 2009
From: vorticitywolfe at gmail.com (J Wolfe)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 13:00:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: passing menu label to function
References: <44f84fe8-0dce-463f-b37f-b02f241bf93a@e34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <0ac769de-3a7c-4973-a333-d06b7b14d540@q35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>

Thanks Peter,

I figured out an alternative just as you posted your response,

I just looped through the buttons I wanted to add and used the loop
variable to label the item and then passed it to the function, though
your way seems much more robust.

Thanks a lot!


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 16:00:17 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 13:00:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: PEP 8 exegetics: conditional imports?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
> This criterion is unlikely to be met for the examples you give above. time
> is a built-in module, and gzip a thin wrapper around zlib which is also
> built-in.

This is something I was _utterly_ unaware of. Is there a list of what
modules are built-in readily available?

The only reference[1] I could find via Google doesn't list zlib at
all.

[1]: http://www.vldb.informatik.hu-berlin.de/Themen/manuals/python/python-texinfo/built-in_modules.html


From davea at ieee.org  Fri Aug  7 16:00:59 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 16:00:59 -0400
Subject: question: why isn't a byte of a hash more uniform? how could
	I 	improve my code to cure that?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A7C87FB.40106@ieee.org>

L???????????????????????????????? wrote:
> Hi all,
> I am a Python novice, and right now I would be happy to simply get my job
> done with it, but I could appreciate some thoughts on the issue below.
>
> I need to assign one of four numbers to names in a list. The assignment
> should be pseudo-random: no pattern whatsoever, but deterministic,
> reproducible, and close to uniform. My understanding was that hash functions
> would do the job. As I only needed 2 bits of treatment, I picked a byte of
> the hashes generated, and even taken mod 4 of it. See the code below.
>
> After I have written a short Python script that hashes my textfile line by
> line and collects the numbers next to the original, I checked what I got.
> Instead of getting around 25% in each treatment, the range is 17.8%-31.3%. I
> understand that the pseudo-randomness means that the treatments should not
> be neat and symmetric. Still, this variation is unacceptable for my purpose.
> My understanding was that good hash functions generate numbers that look
> completely random, and picking only a byte should not change that. I thought
> the promise was also to get close to uniformity:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash_function#Uniformity. I tried all the
> hashes in the hashlib module, and picked bytes from the beginning and the
> end of the hashes, but treatments never were close to uniform (curiously,
> always the last treatment seems to be too rare).
>
> Maybe it is an obvious CS puzzle, I'm looking forward to standing corrected.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Laszlo
>
> The script:
>
> #! /usr/bin/python
>
> f = open('names.txt', 'r')
> g = open('nameshashed.txt', 'a')
>
> import hashlib
>
> for line in f:
>     line = line.rstrip()
>     h = str(hashlib.sha512(line).hexdigest())
>     s = line + ',' + str(ord(h[64])%4) + '\n'
>     g.write(s),
>
>   
The problem is indeed simple, but really nothing to do with Python.  
You're using a single character from a hexdigest, so the only 
possibilities are 0,1,2,...9,A,B, C, D,E, and F

Taking the ords of each of those, and moduloing with 4, you get
     4 - 0
     5 - 1
     4 - 2
     3 - 3

In other words, there's a greater than expected likelihood of 1, and 
less than expected likelihood of 3.  I'd figure the distribution ought 
to be:
     25%,  31%, 25%, and 19%

I'd use digest() instead of hexdigest(), and of course reduce the 
subscript  to 63 or less.

DaveA


From davea at ieee.org  Fri Aug  7 16:16:01 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 16:16:01 -0400
Subject: PEP 8 exegetics: conditional imports?
In-Reply-To: <1249669131.8286.32.camel@centar>
References:  <1249669131.8286.32.camel@centar>
Message-ID: <4A7C8B81.1010901@ieee.org>

Albert Hopkins wrote:
> On Fri, 2009-08-07 at 16:50 +0000, kj wrote:
>   
>> Conditional imports make sense to me, as in the following example:
>>
>> def foobar(filename):
>>     if os.path.splitext(filename)[1] == '.gz':
>>         import gzip
>>         f = gzip.open(filename)
>>     else:
>>         f = file(filename)
>>     # etc.
>>
>> And yet, quoth PEP 8:
>>
>>     - Imports are always put at the top of the file, just after any module
>>       comments and docstrings, and before module globals and constants.
>>
>> ...which seems to condemn conditional imports unequivocally. 
>>
>> Then again, the PEP 8 scriptures do not explicitly mention conditional
>> imports at all, as far as I can tell, which leaves open the
>> possibility that they are still righteous. 
>>
>> In fact, venerable passages in the Python standard library source
>> code, if properly interpreted, can be seen to carry out conditional
>> imports, such as this fragment recovered from random.py:
>>
>>         if a is None:
>>             try:
>>                 a = long(_hexlify(_urandom(16)), 16)
>>             except NotImplementedError:
>>                 import time
>>                 a = long(time.time() * 256) # use fractional seconds
>>
>> Or even more clearly, this one from test/pystone.py:
>>
>> if __name__ == '__main__':
>>     import sys
>>
>>
>>     
>
> I can't speak for others... but generally you can "tell" when an import
> belongs at the top of a module and when you need to make exceptions.  I
> would say that, as a general rule, they go up top (easier to identify
> what external dependencies a module have).  There are, of course,
> exceptions:
>
>       * Exceptions and other not-often-executed blocks
>       * Inside test functions (where the imported modules are only used
>         by tests
>       * Inside main() functions where the imported modules are only used
>         if the module is run as a script
>       * When startup-time is important. Often it's necessary to have you
>         module up and running in an instant and import "expensive"
>         modules as-needed.
>       * "Dynamic" import such as plugins, etc.
>
> Of course, like everything else in PEP 8, it's meant as a "guide" and
> not as an "order".  YMMV.
>
> -a
>
>
>   
Excellent points.  I'd add a couple more, one pro, and two con:

You need conditionals when you're doing things that are 
environment-specific.  For example, you might use Win32 stuff when on 
Windows, and something else when on Linux.  So you might have a pair of 
modules which encapsulate the non-portable aspects, and conditionally 
import one of those.

You usually want any imports to be complete before starting 
multithreading.  As somebody else has recently pointed out, there's an 
import-lock that's active during imports,

If two modules do mutual imports (not a good idea, but it is sometimes 
practically unavoidable), the earlier in the file that the import 
happens, the less likely for a problem to crop up.  So try to put them 
at the top.




From gnewsg at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 16:22:58 2009
From: gnewsg at gmail.com (Giampaolo Rodola')
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 13:22:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Survey: Does your company use Python? Do you know a company that 
	uses Python?
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 7 Ago, 21:15, VanL  wrote:
> This is a survey to find as many companies using Python as we can. You
> can see the survey below:
>
> 
>
> You don't need to work at the company to add it to this list! We will
> filter for duplicates.
>
> The answers to this survey will be kept private. If you still don't want
> to identify yourself, no problem! We just want to know where Python is
> being used.

...you accidentally forgot to mention the *reason*.


--- Giampaolo
http://code.google.com/p/pyftpdlib
http://code.google.com/p/psutil


From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Aug  7 16:27:26 2009
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 22:27:26 +0200
Subject: question: why isn't a byte of a hash more uniform? how could I
	improve my code to cure that?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

Dave Angel wrote:

[clever analysis snipped]

> I'd use digest() instead of hexdigest(), and of course reduce the
> subscript  to 63 or less.

OP: You could also try

hash(line) % 4

While AFAIK it doesn't make promises about randomness it might still be good 
enough in practice.

Peter




From horos11 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 16:29:28 2009
From: horos11 at gmail.com (horos11)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 13:29:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: importing fully qualified scripts to check syntax
Message-ID: 

hey all,

I'm trying to make a syntax checker, where I say:

python -c "import /path/to/script"

to check the syntax of the script named '/path/to/script' (note: no py
extension needed). Of course this doesn't work because the
functionality for import is bundled up with the environment..

So - is there any simple, generic way in python to import a python
file without worrying about naming convention or environment? Sort of
like require in perl?

Ed



From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Aug  7 16:33:08 2009
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 22:33:08 +0200
Subject: PEP 8 exegetics: conditional imports?
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

alex23 wrote:

> This is something I was _utterly_ unaware of. Is there a list of what
> modules are built-in readily available?

>> sys.builtin_module_names
('__builtin__', '__main__', '_ast', '_bisect', '_codecs', '_collections', 
'_functools', '_locale', '_random', '_socket', '_sre', '_struct', 
'_symtable', '_warnings', '_weakref', 'array', 'binascii', 'cPickle', 
'cStringIO', 'errno', 'exceptions', 'fcntl', 'gc', 'grp', 'imp', 
'itertools', 'marshal', 'math', 'operator', 'posix', 'pwd', 'select', 
'signal', 'spwd', 'strop', 'sys', 'syslog', 'thread', 'time', 'unicodedata', 
'xxsubtype', 'zipimport', 'zlib')

Peter




From kee at kagi.com  Fri Aug  7 16:35:26 2009
From: kee at kagi.com (Kee Nethery)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 13:35:26 -0700
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro
	ups.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<7xk51fgazf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
	
	
Message-ID: <93DD1DF1-1614-47A6-A512-F7EFEE6B0642@kagi.com>


On Aug 7, 2009, at 10:48 AM, alex23 wrote:

> Kee Nethery  wrote:
>> I'm looking forward to the acceleration of improvements to the
>> official docs based upon easy to provide user feedback. Glad to see
>> that the bug tracking system is going to not be the primary means for
>> documentation changes.
>
> I'm not sure what you see as being fundamentally different between
> open access to a bug tracker & open access to a wiki, other than it
> being a lot more difficult to have threaded discussion on a wiki.
>
> Why exactly is posting an open comment on a bug tracker somehow
> inferior to posting an open comment on a wiki?

It's a good question and deserves a good answer.

* Fewer Steps
* Immediate
* Does not need to be formally reviewed
* Easier to search

For all these comments, assume the starting point is the section in a  
web page that documents a specific python function. Assume the user is  
using the documentation for the first time in attempt to convert to  
Python. Thus, this is the only official Python page they have ever  
seen, they found it via Google and went directly to it. For example  
purposes, I'll use the following page:
http://docs.python.org/reference/lexical_analysis.html
Lets say the user is in section 2.1.3 Comments

Here's the scenario: The user wanted to include "#" in one of their  
strings and the IDE kept interpreting it as a comment. But they really  
need to use that character in the string. Eventually they find out  
that they can escape the character in their string so that Python  
stops thinking it is the beginning of a comment. They want other users  
to not suffer through the same thing, and they want to contribute to  
the betterment of Python, so they want this information saved so that  
others can avoid the mistake they were making.

* Fewer Steps:

With the bug tracking system, their only option is to lobby to get the  
documentation changed. Lets assume that Python experts all agree that  
the docs should get updated with this gotcha (which as a newbie, they  
are not sure that is a valid assumption and would probably just halt  
in their quest to get the docs updated). But assuming everyone agrees  
this is a valuable addition to the docs so that others can avoid the  
same error, where on this page dues the user submit this bug? There is  
no link on this page to the bug tracking system.

Lets assume they find the bug tracking system through determined  
efforts because they believe there has to be such a thing and they are  
absolutely sure the powers that be want their input. When they find  
the bug tracking system ... they have to create a user account. Then  
they have to wait for the confirming email. Finally they get access to  
the bug tracking system and being a good citizen, they want to make  
sure that they are not duplicating a previously entered bug. What do  
they search on? Do they search for 2.1.3? Do they search for "#"?  
Chances are, even if they do a whole set of searches, and if there  
really is already another bug entered for the exact same issue, they  
are unlikely to find it.

So they create a bug and now they need to go back and reference the  
link (find the page from their browser history) and type up why they  
think their modification to the documentation is worthy. Then once the  
bug is submitted ... you get the picture, there are a gazillion steps  
just to submit a bug. Most people do not bother to submit little  
helpful hints to the docs because it is too much of a pain to do so  
and there is zero confidence that as a newbie, anyone cares about what  
they found confusing, after all, they are just a newbie and not worthy  
of altering the documentation. (Certainly that opinion has been  
expressed several times on this mailing list).

With a wiki article tied to each section in the docs, they click on  
the link and are taken directly to the wiki page of user contributions  
for this specific  2.1.3 section of the docs. They scan the user  
comments and see that no one else entered a note about this gotcha.  
They click on the edit button, enter their gotcha, save, and they are  
done.

* Immediate:

With the bug tracking system, they struggle to find a place to  
contribute and then once they make their contribution, they have no  
idea whether anyone will ever see it and whether they have just wasted  
a bunch of time.

With the wiki link for that section, in less than a minute, they can  
see the comments they have left attached to that specific section so  
that others can see them too and perhaps avoid the same mistake they  
made. A wiki link encourages new users to be contributors. New users  
are the absolute best source of what is confusing to a new user.

* Does not need to be formally reviewed:

With the bug tracking system, each bug has to be reviewed by a  
volunteer, analyzed, commented on, dealt with.

With a wiki, no one has to look at user comments. They can just leave  
them there and ignore them. Other users can police the content and add  
additional comments or examples. All the while none of the official  
volunteers have to get in the loop. If some official volunteer wants  
to improve the docs, they can scan the wiki contributions and use that  
as the source for official changes to the docs.

* Easier to search:

Very few people would think to search the bug tracking system for help  
with some specific function. If someone is having trouble with the #  
sign in their strings, the bug tracking system is not going to be at  
the top of their list for search locations, especially when the bug  
tracking system is not mentioned and when found requires a confirmed  
login.

With a wiki link, the first thing someone will do is click on that to  
see if anyone else left notes about the specific problem. If there was  
no answer there, they'd search Google and try bunches of different  
wordings looking for some clue as to what is happening. I doubt most  
users (except for expert users) would ever search the bug tracking  
system for hints on why their code is not doing what they expect.

My 2 cents,
Kee



From horos11 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 16:39:22 2009
From: horos11 at gmail.com (horos11)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 13:39:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: syntax checker in python
Message-ID: 

ps - I just realized that it isn't enough to do:

python -c 'import /path/to/script'

since that actually executes any statement inside of the script
(wheras all I want to do is check syntax)

So - let me reprhase that - exactly how can you do a syntax check in
python? Something like perl's -c:

     perl -c script_name.p

Ed


From nad at acm.org  Fri Aug  7 16:41:53 2009
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 13:41:53 -0700
Subject: questions about object references
References: <786181.46665.qm@web110610.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: 

In article <786181.46665.qm at web110610.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>,
 William  wrote:

> I have a question.? Suppose I do the following:
> 
> def myfunc(a,b):
> ? return a+b
> 
> myfunc2=myfunc
> 
> is there anyway to find all of the references to myfunc?? That is, can I find 
> out all of the functions that may be aliased to myfunc?

The general idea is to search the appropriate namespaces and check for 
object identity, so something like:

>>> def myfunc(a,b):
...     return a+b
... 
>>> myfunc2 = myfunc
>>> 
>>> name = None
>>> namespace = globals()
>>> 
>>> for name in namespace:
...     if namespace[name] is myfunc:
...         print " %s = %s" % (name, namespace[name])
... 
 myfunc = 
 myfunc2 = 

> second question:
> 
> class MyClass(object):
> ?def __init__(a,b):
> ?? self.a=a
> ?? self.b=b
> ? def myfunc(self):
> ??? return self.a+self.b
> 
> myclass=MyClass(3,4)
> myclass.myfunc2=myclass.myfunc
> 
> Is there any way to find all the references to myclass.myfunc--in this case,
> myclass.myfunc2?

This is a little trickier since the object you are searching for is a 
bound method; while it might seem like it should, testing for object 
identity doesn't work.  (You'd could test for identity of the function 
objects pointed to by the bound methods' __func__ attributes.)  However, 
plain old test for equality works, so, for example, to search the 
instance object's attribute space:

>>> class MyClass(object):
...     def __init__(self,a,b):
...         self.a=a
...         self.b=b
...     def myfunc(self):
...         return self.a+self.b
... 
>>> myclass = MyClass(3,4)
>>> myclass.myfunc2 = myclass.myfunc
>>> 
>>> for name in dir(myclass):
...     obj = getattr(myclass, name)  
...     if obj == myclass.myfunc:
...         print " %s is %s" % (name, obj)
... 
 myfunc is >
 myfunc2 is >

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org



From ivlenin at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 16:42:42 2009
From: ivlenin at gmail.com (I V)
Date: 7 Aug 2009 22:42:42 +0200
Subject: Is "feedparser" deprecated?
References: <4a7c7a8d$0$1661$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<61d0b767-144b-4e3b-96dd-afe71904d619@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a7c91c2$1@news.x-privat.org>

On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 12:57:11 -0700, alex23 wrote:
> John Nagle  wrote:
>> Feedparser hasn't been updated since 2007. Does this mean Feedparser is
>> dead?
> 
> Wouldn't you be better served asking this on the feedparser bug tracker?
> 
> http://code.google.com/p/feedparser/issues/list

But if the project _is_ dead, one would be unlikely to get a response on 
the bug tracker; as seems, in fact, to have happened already:

http://code.google.com/p/feedparser/issues/detail?id=160&start=100

I take it that the lack of response to this issue means the answer is 
"yes."


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Fri Aug  7 16:42:51 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 17:42:51 -0300
Subject: one method of COM object needs a variant type variable
References: <913F77222E913C49A057FDD7BBDEAAA30192B8A0@br-dc.uhul.wan>
Message-ID: 

En Fri, 07 Aug 2009 04:21:03 -0300, MICH?LEK Jan Mgr.
 escribi?:

> Thanks Gabriel,
> I seen this before, but I don't know, what's mean 'compatible object'. I  
> need create object who will like as an variant type.

A variant is like a giant union contaning almost every basic type. See
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms221627.aspx
A variant can hold simple Python objects as integer, float, string... but
not complex ones as, say, DocXMLRPCServer. The conversion to/from variant
types is done automatically.
I think you'll get more help in the python-win32 at python.org list.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 16:52:03 2009
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Fuzzyman)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 13:52:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is python buffer overflow proof?
References:  
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 3, 10:04?pm, sturlamolden  wrote:
> On 2 Aug, 15:50, Jizzai  wrote:
>
> > Is a _pure_ python program buffer overflow proof?
>
> > For example in C++ you can declare a char[9] to hold user input.
> > If the user inputs 10+ chars a buffer overflow occurs.
>
> Short answer: NO
>
> Bounds checking on sequence types is a protection against buffer
> overflow, but is certainly not sufficient.
>
> The Python interpreter is written in C. Python extension modules are
> written in C (or something similar). If you find an unprotected buffer
> in this C code, you can possibly overflow this buffer. This can be
> used for nasty things like corrupting the stack and injecting
> malicious code. There is a reason why the Python sandbox (rexec and
> Bastion modules) was disabled in Python 2.3.
>
> IronPython and Jython provides better protection against buffer
> overflow than CPython, as these interpreters are written in safer
> languages (C# and Java). You thus get an extra layer of protection
> between the Python code and the unsafe C (used in JVM and .NET
> runtimes).

Well, both Java and .NET both have their own FFI that let you do
whatever you want (more or less).

Michael Foord
--
http://www.ironpythoninaction.com/


From no.email at please.post  Fri Aug  7 16:53:10 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 20:53:10 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: unique-ifying a list
Message-ID: 



Suppose that x is some list.  To produce a version of the list with
duplicate elements removed one could, I suppose, do this:

    x = list(set(x))

but I expect that this will not preserve the original order of
elements.

I suppose that I could write something like

def uniquify(items):
    seen = set()
    ret = []
    for i in items:
        if not i in seen:
            ret.append(i)
            seen.add(i)
    return ret

But this seems to me like such a commonly needed operation that I
find it hard to believe one would need to resort to such self-rolled
solutions.  Isn't there some more standard (and hopefully more
efficient, as in "C-coded"/built-in) approach?

TIA!

kynn


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 16:54:05 2009
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Fuzzyman)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 13:54:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is python buffer overflow proof?
References:  
	 
	
	<4a77c0d9$0$1584$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <95f33050-4f3b-42e8-97f3-9caf3e36292f@g19g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 4, 6:06?am, John Nagle  wrote:
> Gabriel Genellina wrote:
> > En Mon, 03 Aug 2009 18:04:53 -0300, sturlamolden 
> > escribi?:
>
> >> On 2 Aug, 15:50, Jizzai  wrote:
>
> >>> Is a _pure_ python program buffer overflow proof?
>
> >>> For example in C++ you can declare a char[9] to hold user input.
> >>> If the user inputs 10+ chars a buffer overflow occurs.
>
> >> Short answer: NO
> > I disagree. You've just translated the responsability to check for
> > buffer overflows, from the Python VM, to the Java VM or the .Net runtime
> > (and all three suffered from buffer overruns and other problems in some
> > way or another).
>
> ? ? A more useful question is whether the standard libraries are being
> run through any of the commercial static checkers for possible buffer
> overflows.
>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? John Nagle

Python has been run through valgrind which did expose (and result in
the fixing) of several theoretical problems.

Pure Python can be crashed (cause segfaults) in various ways - there
is even a directory of tests that do this in the test suite. I don't
think any are due to buffer overflows.

Michael Foord
--
http://www.ironpythoninaction.com/


From mensanator at aol.com  Fri Aug  7 17:01:06 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 14:01:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Good news & bad news (was: Turtle Graphics are incompatible with 
	gmpy)
References: 
	<0002b5d3$0$2970$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4a7936a4$0$1552$91cee783@newsreader03.highway.telekom.at> 
	 
	<4A79C7E2.3000406@aon.at>
	
	 
	<49395cf2-c2fb-4fd9-b2f2-7f462abe8250@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> 
	<4a7a28b3$0$2303$91cee783@newsreader01.highway.telekom.at> 
	
Message-ID: 

Bad news:

I ran the 2.5 turtle.py through the 2to3 refactorer but the
result would not run in 3.1, some kind of type mismatch between
ints and NoneType. So I set it aside.

Good news:

I tracked down the actual cause of the image discrepencies in my
report.

http://www.mensanator.com/mensanator/PythonTurtle/turtle.htm

These are completely bogus as it turns out. I had thought I was
essentially executing the same code (aside from changing 3.1
turtle functions that don't exist in 2.5 to their equivalent).

But in my mucking about tracking down the gmpy problem, a bug
crept in when I converted back from Python ints

  if side == 'northeast':
    elbow_offset = [int((gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)//2 +1),
                    -int(((gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)//2) +1)]
  else:
    elbow_offset = [-int(((gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)//2 +1)),
                    int(((gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)//2 +1))]

to gmpy ints.

  if side == 'northeast':
    elbow_offset = [(gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)//2 +1,
                    -((gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)//2) +1]
  else:
    elbow_offset = [-((gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)//2 +1),
                    ((gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)//2 +1)]

A ")" is mislocated in -((gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)//2) +1], the one
after "//2" should have been placed after the "+1". There were
still three matching sets, but the +1 was now happening after
the negation instead or prior to it. And, of course, this lead
to discrepencies in the calls to the turtle goto function.
And, luckily, the code chain for 2.5 originated from the version
prior to the introduction of this error, otherwise, if the same
error was in both, the images would have been identicle albeit
wrong.

So it looks like there is NO practical difference between the
2.5 algorithm and the 3.1 algorithm. I'm no longer going to try
to get the 2.5 turtle.py to work in 3.1.

And with the nhops calculation changed to

 nhops = 1+int((float(diffsq)**0.5)/(3*(1.1**self._speed)
*self._speed))

it no longer crashes in trace mode.

This was probably originally provoked by gmpy 1.10 and probably
isn't a problem in 2.6 with gmpy 1.04. I had upgraded my 2.6 gmpy
to 1.10 where it also crashed. I may have run the test code in
2.6 when I had 1.04 installed but it's unlikely I would have done
so with tracing on since it's 100 times slower. But I expect it
would not have failed due to this:


Changes in gmpy 1.10

Number conversion rules have changed.
-------------------------------------
The arguments in operations involving mixed types are converted
using the following rules:

   Integer --> Rational   --> Floating-point
    'int'       'Fraction'     'float'
    'long'      'mpq'          'Decimal'
    'mpz'                      'mpf'

   Old behavior:
     mpz(1) + float(1.2)     --> float(2.2)
     mpz(1) + Decimal('1.2') --> mpz(2)

   New behavior:
     mpz(1) + float(1.2)     --> mpf(2.2)
     mpz(1) + Decimal('1.2') --> mpf(2.2)


Apparently, as I painfully found out, that rule change can cause
applications to fail due to an mpf result from a mixed type function
instead of a float when they subsequently use fractional
exponentiation.



From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Fri Aug  7 17:04:15 2009
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 7 Aug 2009 21:04:15 GMT
Subject: Bug or feature: double strings as one
References: 
	
	<5Y2dnfnYAdsl0-HXnZ2dnUVZ_j9i4p2d@pdx.net>
	
Message-ID: 

Grant Edwards  wrote:

> Definitely.  Not only does it have _all_ the features, it even
> manages to simultaneously have several mutually-exclusive
> features.

Sounds a bit like Perl.


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Fri Aug  7 17:41:07 2009
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 14:41:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: unique-ifying a list
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 7, 1:53?pm, kj  wrote:
> Suppose that x is some list. ?To produce a version of the list with
> duplicate elements removed one could, I suppose, do this:
>
> ? ? x = list(set(x))
>
> but I expect that this will not preserve the original order of
> elements.
>
> I suppose that I could write something like
>
> def uniquify(items):
> ? ? seen = set()
> ? ? ret = []
> ? ? for i in items:
> ? ? ? ? if not i in seen:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ret.append(i)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? seen.add(i)
> ? ? return ret
>
> But this seems to me like such a commonly needed operation that I
> find it hard to believe one would need to resort to such self-rolled
> solutions. ?Isn't there some more standard (and hopefully more
> efficient, as in "C-coded"/built-in) approach?
>

Honestly, doing unique operations is pretty rare in the application
level. Unless you're writing some kind of database, I don't see why
you'd do it. (My recommendation is not to write databases.)

If you want unique elements, use a set. If you want to order them,
sort a list of the items in the set.

If you want to preserve the order, then using a dict may be even
better.

    orig_order = dict(reversed([reversed(i) for i in enumerate
(items)])
    unique_ordered = sorted(orig_order.keys(), key=lambda k: orig_order
[k])

Hints to understanding:
* enumerate generates (index, item) pairs.
* We reverse each pair so that we get an item -> index mapping.
* We reverse it so that the first ones appear last. Later pairs
override earlier ones in dict().


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Fri Aug  7 17:48:51 2009
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 14:48:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: syntax checker in python
References: 
Message-ID: <675fb1c7-1747-4a22-8d74-42affc1929bc@i4g2000prm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 7, 1:39?pm, horos11  wrote:
> ps - I just realized that it isn't enough to do:
>
> python -c 'import /path/to/script'
>
> since that actually executes any statement inside of the script
> (wheras all I want to do is check syntax)
>
> So - let me reprhase that - exactly how can you do a syntax check in
> python? Something like perl's -c:
>
> ? ? ?perl -c script_name.p
>

You may want to read the sections under "Python Language Services" in
the Python Library Reference. There may be something you are looking
for there.


From no.email at please.post  Fri Aug  7 17:51:39 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 21:51:39 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Why all the __double_underscored_vars__?
Message-ID: 



Python is chock-full of identifiers beginning and ending with double
underscores, such as __builtin__, __contains__, and __coerce__.

Using underscores to signal that an identifier is somehow "private"
to an implementation is pretty common in languages other than
Python.  But in these cases the understanding is that the use of
these variables in external code amounts to "going behind the API",
and is therefore unwise.

But as far as I can tell, Python's double-underscore variables are
very much part of Python's API.  E.g., programmers are specifically
instructed to override "double-underscore methods" to achieve
certain functionalities.

In this case, I wonder: what justifiies the double-underscore
convention?  For example, what would be the problem with changing
the name of the complex.__gt__ method to complex.gt?

TIA!

kynn


From hjtoi-better-remove-before-reply at comcast.net  Fri Aug  7 18:02:15 2009
From: hjtoi-better-remove-before-reply at comcast.net (Heikki Toivonen)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 15:02:15 -0700
Subject: Setuptools - help!
References: 
	
	<9fauk6-t24.ln1@phoenix.fire>
Message-ID: 

Peter Chant wrote:
> Thanks, it worked.  Any ideas how to run the resulting scripts without
> installing or running as root?

If you install as root, you should be able to run the scripts as normal
user. However, I don't recommend this approach since it could conflict
with your system Python packages.

I like using virtualenv to create isolated Python environments. I can
easily install whatever Python packages I want into each environment,
delete them when I am done with them or messed up etc.

http://pypi.python.org/pypi/virtualenv

-- 
  Heikki Toivonen - http://heikkitoivonen.net


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Fri Aug  7 18:13:41 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 18:13:41 -0400
Subject: Why all the __double_underscored_vars__?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908071513m2e25009dv7bd61e7b20a9094a@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 5:51 PM, kj wrote:
> Python is chock-full of identifiers beginning and ending with double
> underscores, such as __builtin__, __contains__, and __coerce__.
>
> Using underscores to signal that an identifier is somehow "private"
> to an implementation is pretty common in languages other than
> Python. ?But in these cases the understanding is that the use of
> these variables in external code amounts to "going behind the API",
> and is therefore unwise.
>
> But as far as I can tell, Python's double-underscore variables are
> very much part of Python's API. ?E.g., programmers are specifically
> instructed to override "double-underscore methods" to achieve
> certain functionalities.

Right, but the *users* of the functionality provided by __methods__
typically should not invoke such methods directly.
For example, one should write `a > b`, not `a.__gt__(b)`. The lack of
underscores in just plain `gt` would suggest that it's a normal method
that could/should be called directly. Also, if the underscore
requirement were removed, then people might unknowingly overload an
operator without knowing it.
The double-underscores indicate that the Python interpreter itself
usually is the caller of the method, and as such some level of "magic"
may be associated with it. Other languages have you do the equivalent
of `def +():` or `def operator +()` to override an operator, the
keyword or symbol serving a similar warning that "here be magic". To
avoid adding another keyword and the confusion of having punctuation
as method names, Python uses a different convention, double leading
and trailing underscores.

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From labjacksupport at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 18:16:57 2009
From: labjacksupport at gmail.com (LabJack Support)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 15:16:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ValueError: Procedure probably called with not enough arguments (8 
	bytes missing)
Message-ID: 

Hello! I am chasing around a problem that I am having with ctypes and
I am hoping someone can help out. Here is the Python code:

    def asynch(self, baudrate, data, idNum=None, demo=0, portB=0,
enableTE=0, enableTO=0, enableDel=0, numWrite=0, numRead=0):
        """
        Name: U12.asynchConfig(fullA, fullB, fullC, halfA, halfB,
halfC, idNum=None, demo=None, timeoutMult=1, configA=0, configB=0,
configTE=0)
        Args: See section 4.12 of the User's Guide
        Desc: Requires firmware V1.1 or higher. This function writes
to the asynch registers and sets the direction of the D lines (input/
output) as needed.

        >>> dev = U12()
        >>> dev.asynchConfig(96,1,1,22,2,1)
        >>> {'idNum': 1}
        """

        #Check id number
        if idNum is None:
            idNum = self.id
        idNum = ctypes.c_long(idNum)

        # Check size of data
        if len(data) > 18: raise ValueError("data can not be larger
than 18 elements")

        # Make data 18 elements large
        dataArray = [0] * 18
        for i in range(0, len(data)):
            dataArray[i] = data[i]
        print dataArray
        dataArray = listToCArray(dataArray, ctypes.c_long)

        ecode = staticLib.AsynchConfig(ctypes.byref(idNum), demo,
portB, enableTE, enableTO, enableDel, baudrate, numWrite, numRead,
ctypes.byref(dataArray))

        if ecode != 0:print ecode # TODO: Switch this out for
exception

        return {"idnum":long, "data":dataArray}

Here is the method signature of the c function:

long Asynch(	long *idnum,
				long demo,
				long portB,
				long enableTE,
				long enableTO,
				long enableDel,
				long baudrate,
				long numWrite,
				long numRead,
				long *data)

Thank you in advance,
Sam


From labjacksupport at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 18:17:52 2009
From: labjacksupport at gmail.com (LabJack Support)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 15:17:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ValueError: Procedure probably called with not enough arguments 
	(8 bytes missing)
References: eb8393e4-d923-4c27-a98c-1c370522c510@p28g2000vbn.googlegroups.com
Message-ID: <38bd8e73-77cb-49e2-8014-42dad28fc987@d21g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 7, 4:16?pm, LabJack Support  wrote:
> Hello! I am chasing around a problem that I am having with ctypes and
> I am hoping someone can help out. Here is the Python code:
>
> ? ? def asynch(self, baudrate, data, idNum=None, demo=0, portB=0,
> enableTE=0, enableTO=0, enableDel=0, numWrite=0, numRead=0):
> ? ? ? ? """
> ? ? ? ? Name: U12.asynchConfig(fullA, fullB, fullC, halfA, halfB,
> halfC, idNum=None, demo=None, timeoutMult=1, configA=0, configB=0,
> configTE=0)
> ? ? ? ? Args: See section 4.12 of the User's Guide
> ? ? ? ? Desc: Requires firmware V1.1 or higher. This function writes
> to the asynch registers and sets the direction of the D lines (input/
> output) as needed.
>
> ? ? ? ? >>> dev = U12()
> ? ? ? ? >>> dev.asynchConfig(96,1,1,22,2,1)
> ? ? ? ? >>> {'idNum': 1}
> ? ? ? ? """
>
> ? ? ? ? #Check id number
> ? ? ? ? if idNum is None:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? idNum = self.id
> ? ? ? ? idNum = ctypes.c_long(idNum)
>
> ? ? ? ? # Check size of data
> ? ? ? ? if len(data) > 18: raise ValueError("data can not be larger
> than 18 elements")
>
> ? ? ? ? # Make data 18 elements large
> ? ? ? ? dataArray = [0] * 18
> ? ? ? ? for i in range(0, len(data)):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? dataArray[i] = data[i]
> ? ? ? ? print dataArray
> ? ? ? ? dataArray = listToCArray(dataArray, ctypes.c_long)
>
> ? ? ? ? ecode = staticLib.AsynchConfig(ctypes.byref(idNum), demo,
> portB, enableTE, enableTO, enableDel, baudrate, numWrite, numRead,
> ctypes.byref(dataArray))
>
> ? ? ? ? if ecode != 0:print ecode # TODO: Switch this out for
> exception
>
> ? ? ? ? return {"idnum":long, "data":dataArray}
>
> Here is the method signature of the c function:
>
> long Asynch( ? ?long *idnum,
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? long demo,
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? long portB,
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? long enableTE,
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? long enableTO,
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? long enableDel,
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? long baudrate,
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? long numWrite,
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? long numRead,
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? long *data)
>
> Thank you in advance,
> Sam

Whoops I am sorry. The problem was due to a typo.


From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Fri Aug  7 19:04:19 2009
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (Bearophile)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 16:04:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bug or feature: double strings as one
References: 
Message-ID: 

durumdara:
> I wanna ask that is a bug or is it a feature?

For me it's a bug-prone antifeature.

Bye,
bearophile


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 19:40:14 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 16:40:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Why all the __double_underscored_vars__?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 7, 5:13?pm, Chris Rebert  wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 5:51 PM, kj wrote:
> > Python is chock-full of identifiers beginning and ending with double
> > underscores, such as __builtin__, __contains__, and __coerce__.
...(snip)
> Right, but the *users* of the functionality provided by __methods__
...(snip)
> Cheers,
> Chris

Yes and Python's way is by-far the proper way to handle such
functionailty. Don't thank god, thank Guido


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Fri Aug  7 19:46:03 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 16:46:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bug or feature: double strings as one
References: 
	  
	<1de1eadf-6a2a-414c-a7cf-cf235edadcfb@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 8, 3:43?am, alex23  wrote:
> kj  wrote:
> > Feature, as others have pointed out, though I fail to see the need
> > for it, given that Python's general syntax for string (as opposed
> > to string literal) concatenation is already so convenient. ?I.e.,
> > I fail to see why
>
> > x = ("first part of a very long string "
> > ? ? ?"second part of a very long string")
>
> > is so much better than
>
> > x = ("first part of a very long string " +
> > ? ? ?"second part of a very long string")
>
> My impression is it's mostly for one of clarity. It's especially
> useful with regular expressions, as it allows for comments to document
> each element of the regex (following example shamelessly taken from
> the docs (albeit with personal preferences on formatting))):
>
> re.compile(
> ? ? "[A-Za-z_]" ? ? ? # letter or underscore
> ? ? "[A-Za-z0-9_]*" ? # letter, digit or underscore
> )
>
> Not having the plus sign present does assist (IMO) in the ease of
> parsing the regex.
> re.compile(

re.VERBOSE?


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Fri Aug  7 20:03:54 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 02:03:54 +0200
Subject: help with threads
References: <5a744bd6-6b9a-4f46-97c1-bb7fd65b8f4c@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<949b87d5-8cff-444a-b6ba-23d49610d130@p36g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Michael Mossey  (MM) wrote:

>MM> Ah yes, that explains it. Some of these long computations are done in
>MM> pure C, so I'm sure the GIL is not being released.

Is that C code under your own control? Or at least the glue from Python
to C? In that case, and if the C code is not manipulating Python objects
or something in the Python interpreter, it could be changed to release
the GIL during the computation. That's also how Numpy does it, IIRC.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 20:11:01 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 17:11:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bug or feature: double strings as one
References: 
Message-ID: <5ba3a8f0-bdff-4ae7-bff4-abacf559d3a6@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 7, 7:31?am, durumdara  wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I found an interesting thing in Python.
> Today one of my "def"s got wrong result.
...(snip)

I think it's a completely useless feature and i have never used it
even once! This so-called "feature" seems a direct  contridiction to
the zen...

"""There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do
it. """


From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Aug  7 20:31:48 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 02:31:48 +0200
Subject: syntax checker in python
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7e3vblF2ea3orU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

horos11 schrieb:
> ps - I just realized that it isn't enough to do:
> 
> python -c 'import /path/to/script'
> 
> since that actually executes any statement inside of the script
> (wheras all I want to do is check syntax)
> 
> So - let me reprhase that - exactly how can you do a syntax check in
> python? Something like perl's -c:

See pylint & pychecker.

Diez



From rt8396 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 20:33:09 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 17:33:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com> 
	
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro 
	ups.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com> 
	
	 
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com> 
	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<7xk51fgazf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: <0242fc66-2b78-4494-a133-43aff6a86353@p9g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 7, 3:35?pm, Kee Nethery  wrote:
(snip)

Kee,
that was an eloquent and enlighting post and i think it speaks volumes
to the lack of inclusion of all Pythoneers in this community. Not to
mention the viscous attitudes and self indulgence we have around here.

For those of you with ADD, Kee was speaking to the hurdles one must
overcome to change even the most minor things within this community.
Change around here almost parallels an act-of-congress with it's de-
motivating burdens that beset a new python user who may wish to add
his or her 2 pennies to the Python wishing well. And i believe like
Kee, most of them just give up and say
   """Oh Well, F### it!"""

Not to mention the never ending droves of naysayers, bullies, smart-
arses, and egomaniacs with their minions and sock-puppets ready at
moments notice to pounce on (and utterly destroy) any feeble noob who
dares to try and enhance the user experience in Python for all of us.



From nobody at nowhere.com  Fri Aug  7 20:40:51 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 01:40:51 +0100
Subject: Executing untrusted code
References: <137d4d96-c481-4806-a8cf-2904e89c78ae@l35g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 08:15:08 -0700, Emanuele D'Arrigo wrote:

> Are
> there best practices to at least minimize some of the risks associated
> with untrusted code execution?

Yes: don't execute it. Failing that, run the Python interpreter within a
sandbox.

If you want to support restricted execution within a language, it has to
be built into the language from day one. Trying to bolt it on later is a
fool's errand.



From rt8396 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 20:54:40 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 17:54:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bug or feature: double strings as one
References: 
	<5ba3a8f0-bdff-4ae7-bff4-abacf559d3a6@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

It sure doesn't get any more obivous than...
  "string1" + "string2"

Although i much prefer string formatting to concatenation for almost
all cases except the most simple. This auto-magic conacatenation of
strings is unintuitive and completely moronic if you ask my opinion. I
blow chunks when i see this type of code, and the result from it, and
so should my interpretor!
  "string1" "string2" --> syntax error you moron!

If you are wanting to create shortcuts, do them where they make sense
and can serve a useful purpose...

t = ('1' "word" 33.3)
l = [1 2 3 (4 5)]
d = {keyname:value keyname:value etc...}

KISS people!


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Fri Aug  7 21:10:33 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 22:10:33 -0300
Subject: unique-ifying a list
References: 
Message-ID: 

En Fri, 07 Aug 2009 17:53:10 -0300, kj  escribi?:

> Suppose that x is some list.  To produce a version of the list with
> duplicate elements removed one could, I suppose, do this:
>
>     x = list(set(x))
>
> but I expect that this will not preserve the original order of
> elements.
>
> I suppose that I could write something like
>
> def uniquify(items):
>     seen = set()
>     ret = []
>     for i in items:
>         if not i in seen:
>             ret.append(i)
>             seen.add(i)
>     return ret

Assuming the elements are hashable, yes, that's the fastest way (minus
some microoptimizations like using local names for ret.append and
seen.add, or the 'not in' operator).

See bearophile's recipe [1], another one [2] by Tim Peters (quite old but
worths reading the comment section), and this thread [3]

[1] http://code.activestate.com/recipes/438599/
[2] http://code.activestate.com/recipes/52560/
[3] http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/40c6c455f4fd5154/

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Fri Aug  7 21:10:39 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 22:10:39 -0300
Subject: Is "feedparser" deprecated?
References: <4a7c7a8d$0$1661$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: 

En Fri, 07 Aug 2009 16:07:48 -0300, John Nagle 
escribi?:

>    Feedparser requires SGMLlib, which has been removed from Python 3.0.
> Feedparser hasn't been updated since 2007. Does this mean Feedparser
> is dead?

Since we have generic and easy of use XML parsers like ElementTree and
lxml,  specialized rss parsers like feedparser are not so much required.
I've used ElementTree when I had to parse an rss feed in the past (not so
many times).

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Fri Aug  7 21:16:06 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 22:16:06 -0300
Subject: importing fully qualified scripts to check syntax
References: 
Message-ID: 

En Fri, 07 Aug 2009 17:29:28 -0300, horos11  escribi?:

> I'm trying to make a syntax checker, where I say:
>
> python -c "import /path/to/script"
>
> to check the syntax of the script named '/path/to/script' (note: no py
> extension needed). Of course this doesn't work because the
> functionality for import is bundled up with the environment..

Try the py_compile module in the standard library:
http://docs.python.org/library/

The import statement does more than just checking syntax. You may want to  
start the interpreter with the -tt option also.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Aug  7 22:04:58 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 08 Aug 2009 02:04:58 GMT
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
References: 
	
	<2qcrk6-doj.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	
	<028b1ce0$0$5185$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <0006608d$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 12:00:42 +0200, Thorsten Kampe wrote:

> Bollocks. No one will even notice whether a code sequence runs 2.7 or
> 5.7 seconds. That's completely artificial benchmarking.

You think users won't notice a doubling of execution time? Well, that 
explains some of the apps I'm forced to use...

A two-second running time for (say) a command-line tool is already 
noticeable. A five-second one is *very* noticeable -- long enough to be a 
drag, short enough that you aren't tempted to go off and do something 
else while you're waiting for it to finish.


-- 
Steven


From Dave  Fri Aug  7 23:05:20 2009
From: Dave (Dave)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 22:05:20 -0500
Subject: Windows 7 : any problems installing or running Python ?
Message-ID: 

Anybody tried it ? 
Is anything broken, ie is the whole shootin' match good to go ?
I'm esp interested in WConio for 3.0/3.1 which I use heavily.
Thanks                              Dave     pdlemper at earthlink.net

                               " I saw the number 4 in silver "  Guido
                                   ( apologies to Wm Carlos Williams )


From n179911 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 23:29:06 2009
From: n179911 at gmail.com (n179911)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 20:29:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to address a global variable in a function
Message-ID: <82c2f2e7-ed3e-482b-9318-d5539a2a9da8@y10g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

HI,

I have a global variable

// line 8
tx  = 0

and then I have this function (start in line 12):
def handleTranslate(result):
	print line
	txStr, tyStr = result.group(1), result.group(2)
	print txStr, tyStr

	tx += int(txStr)
	ty += int(tyStr)

	return

But I am getting this error:
    handleTranslate(result)
  File "buildsvg.py", line 22, in handleTranslate
    tx += int(txStr)
UnboundLocalError: local variable 'tx' referenced before assignment

How can I fix it?
I have assigned 'tx' to 0 in line 8. I don't understand why i get this
error.

Thank you for any help.



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Aug  7 23:29:43 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 08 Aug 2009 03:29:43 GMT
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
References: 
	
	<2qcrk6-doj.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	
	<028b1ce0$0$5185$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<556b00a3-bbbf-4076-a300-d20839a313c8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <0006746a$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 17:13:07 +0200, Thorsten Kampe wrote:

> One guy claims he has times between 2.7 and 5.7 seconds when
> benchmarking more or less randomly generated "one million different
> lines". That *is* *exactly* nothing.


We agree that in the grand scheme of things, a difference of 2.7 seconds 
versus 5.7 seconds is a trivial difference if your entire program takes 
(say) 8 minutes to run. You won't even notice it.

But why assume that the program takes 8 minutes to run? Perhaps it takes 
8 seconds to run, and 6 seconds of that is the decoding. Then halving 
that reduces the total runtime from 8 seconds to 5, which is a noticeable 
speed increase to the user, and significant if you then run that program 
tens of thousands of times.

The Python dev team spend significant time and effort to get improvements 
of the order of 10%, and you're pooh-poohing an improvement of the order 
of 100%. By all means, reminding people that pre-mature optimization is a 
waste of time, but it's possible to take that attitude too far to Planet 
Bizarro. At the point that you start insisting, and emphasising, that a 
three second time difference is "*exactly*" zero, it seems to me that 
this is about you winning rather than you giving good advice.



-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Aug  7 23:29:59 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 08 Aug 2009 03:29:59 GMT
Subject: PEP 8 exegetics: conditional imports?
References: 
Message-ID: <0006747a$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 16:50:12 +0000, kj wrote:

> I seek the wisdom of the elders.  Is there a consensus on the matter of
> conditional imports?  Are they righteous?  Or are they the way of the
> wicked?

Being an elder doesn't grant you wisdom. It just might mean you've been 
stupid and ignorant for a long time.

For what it's worth, you can take my conditional imports when you've 
pried them from my cold, dead hands.



-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Aug  7 23:31:31 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 08 Aug 2009 03:31:31 GMT
Subject: Bug or feature: double strings as one
References: 
	 
Message-ID: <000674d6$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 17:35:28 +0000, kj wrote:

> I fail to see why
> 
> x = ("first part of a very long string "
>      "second part of a very long string")

That's done by the compiler at compile time and is fast.

> is so much better than
> 
> x = ("first part of a very long string " +
>      "second part of a very long string")

That's done by the Python virtual machine at runtime and creates two 
strings, then passes them to a method, which creates a third string, then 
(usually) disposes of the first two strings.

Except for some versions of the CPython implementation, which has a 
keyhole compiler which folds constants at runtime. But it's a simple 
optimizer, easy to defeat:

>>> import dis
>>> dis.dis(compile("s = ''; s + 'a' + 'b'", '', 'exec'))
  1           0 LOAD_CONST               0 ('')
              3 STORE_NAME               0 (s)
              6 LOAD_NAME                0 (s)
              9 LOAD_CONST               1 ('a')
             12 BINARY_ADD
             13 LOAD_CONST               2 ('b')
             16 BINARY_ADD
             17 POP_TOP
             18 LOAD_CONST               3 (None)
             21 RETURN_VALUE
>>>
>>> dis.dis(compile("s = ''; s + 'a' 'b'", '', 'exec'))
  1           0 LOAD_CONST               0 ('')
              3 STORE_NAME               0 (s)
              6 LOAD_NAME                0 (s)
              9 LOAD_CONST               1 ('ab')
             12 BINARY_ADD
             13 POP_TOP
             14 LOAD_CONST               2 (None)
             17 RETURN_VALUE



-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Aug  7 23:31:46 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 08 Aug 2009 03:31:46 GMT
Subject: how to overload operator "< <" (a < x < b)?
References: <53eb4291-9a78-489a-9a5d-396ec8a9c2af@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <000674e5$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 08:04:22 -0700, Scott David Daniels wrote:

> Benjamin Kaplan wrote:
>> .... Python does not support compound comparisons like that. You have
>> to do "a > b and b > c".
> 
> Funny, my python does.  This has been around a long time. I am not
> certain whether 1.5.2 did it, but "chained comparisons" have been around
> for a long time.

Yes it does:

$ python1.5
Python 1.5.2 (#1, Apr  1 2009, 22:55:54)  [GCC 4.1.2 20070925 (Red Hat 
4.1.2-27)] on linux2
Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam
>>>
>>> 2 < 3 < 4
1


Remembering that back then, 0 and 1 were used instead of False and True.


-- 
Steven


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 00:01:47 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 21:01:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: how to overload operator "< <" (a < x < b)?
References: <53eb4291-9a78-489a-9a5d-396ec8a9c2af@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<7e2regF2eqbabU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <429efe93-afd0-4d46-973c-0df0d4f42c0c@p9g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 7, 7:18?am, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
> alex23 schrieb:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 7, 10:50 pm, Benjamin Kaplan  wrote:
> >> That isn't an operator at all. Python does not support compound
> >> comparisons like that. You have to do "a > b and b > c".
>
> > You know, it costs nothing to open up a python interpreter and check
> > your certainty:
>
> >>>> x = 10
> >>>> 1 < x < 20
> > True
>
> > This is a _very_ common pattern.
>
> >>>> class X(object):
> > ... ? def __lt__(self, other):
> > ... ? ? print 'in lt'
> > ... ? ? return True
> > ... ? def __gt__(self, other):
> > ... ? ? print 'in gt'
> > ... ? ? return True
> > ...
> >>>> x = X()
> >>>> 1 < x < 20
> > in gt
> > in lt
> > True
> >>>> 20 < x < 1
> > in gt
> > in lt
> > True
>
> > dmitrey: Diez' advice was the best you received.
>
> Not really. I didn't get the chaining, and Peter is right that for that
> there is no real overloading.

You can program __lt__, __gt__, and friends to return a closure with a
boolean value.  See my upcoming reply to the author.


Carl Banks


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 00:10:35 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 21:10:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: how to overload operator "< <" (a < x < b)?
References: <53eb4291-9a78-489a-9a5d-396ec8a9c2af@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<7e2regF2eqbabU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<429efe93-afd0-4d46-973c-0df0d4f42c0c@p9g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <241f44f0-cd5c-48cd-a5ac-7a51954809fe@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 7, 9:01?pm, Carl Banks  wrote:
> On Aug 7, 7:18?am, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > alex23 schrieb:
>
> > > On Aug 7, 10:50 pm, Benjamin Kaplan  wrote:
> > >> That isn't an operator at all. Python does not support compound
> > >> comparisons like that. You have to do "a > b and b > c".
>
> > > You know, it costs nothing to open up a python interpreter and check
> > > your certainty:
>
> > >>>> x = 10
> > >>>> 1 < x < 20
> > > True
>
> > > This is a _very_ common pattern.
>
> > >>>> class X(object):
> > > ... ? def __lt__(self, other):
> > > ... ? ? print 'in lt'
> > > ... ? ? return True
> > > ... ? def __gt__(self, other):
> > > ... ? ? print 'in gt'
> > > ... ? ? return True
> > > ...
> > >>>> x = X()
> > >>>> 1 < x < 20
> > > in gt
> > > in lt
> > > True
> > >>>> 20 < x < 1
> > > in gt
> > > in lt
> > > True
>
> > > dmitrey: Diez' advice was the best you received.
>
> > Not really. I didn't get the chaining, and Peter is right that for that
> > there is no real overloading.
>
> You can program __lt__, __gt__, and friends to return a closure with a
> boolean value. ?See my upcoming reply to the author.

Actually, scratch that.  It won't work because the chained comparison
short-circuits.  If you have __lt__ return a closure then a < b won't
work unless a < b is always true, which means it'll cause ordinary
binary comparison to fail.  Oh well.


Carl Banks


From n179911 at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 00:14:37 2009
From: n179911 at gmail.com (n179911)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 21:14:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to address a global variable in a function
References: <82c2f2e7-ed3e-482b-9318-d5539a2a9da8@y10g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 7, 8:29?pm, n179911  wrote:
> HI,
>
> I have a global variable
>
> // line 8
> tx ?= 0
>
> and then I have this function (start in line 12):
> def handleTranslate(result):
> ? ? ? ? print line
> ? ? ? ? txStr, tyStr = result.group(1), result.group(2)
> ? ? ? ? print txStr, tyStr
>
> ? ? ? ? tx += int(txStr)
> ? ? ? ? ty += int(tyStr)
>
> ? ? ? ? return
>
> But I am getting this error:
> ? ? handleTranslate(result)
> ? File "buildsvg.py", line 22, in handleTranslate
> ? ? tx += int(txStr)
> UnboundLocalError: local variable 'tx' referenced before assignment
>
> How can I fix it?
> I have assigned 'tx' to 0 in line 8. I don't understand why i get this
> error.
>
> Thank you for any help.

I figure out my problem

put this in my function:
global tx


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sat Aug  8 00:14:58 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 00:14:58 -0400
Subject: How to address a global variable in a function
In-Reply-To: <82c2f2e7-ed3e-482b-9318-d5539a2a9da8@y10g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
References: <82c2f2e7-ed3e-482b-9318-d5539a2a9da8@y10g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908072114y2676738fm48461973a03e472b@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 11:29 PM, n179911 wrote:
> HI,
>
> I have a global variable
>
> // line 8
> tx ?= 0
>
> and then I have this function (start in line 12):
> def handleTranslate(result):
> ? ? ? ?print line
> ? ? ? ?txStr, tyStr = result.group(1), result.group(2)
> ? ? ? ?print txStr, tyStr
>
> ? ? ? ?tx += int(txStr)
> ? ? ? ?ty += int(tyStr)
>
> ? ? ? ?return
>
> But I am getting this error:
> ? ?handleTranslate(result)
> ?File "buildsvg.py", line 22, in handleTranslate
> ? ?tx += int(txStr)
> UnboundLocalError: local variable 'tx' referenced before assignment
>
> How can I fix it?
> I have assigned 'tx' to 0 in line 8. I don't understand why i get this
> error.

By default, Python assumes that any variables assigned to in a
function are local variables. To change this assumption, you need to
declare that you want to reference a global variable. This is done by
putting a `global` statement at the start of the function (i.e.
`global tx`).

In the future, you might STFW (in this case, for "UnboundLocalError")
before posting to the newsgroup, as you would have found several
explanations of this common newbie-biter.

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Aug  8 00:25:31 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 08 Aug 2009 04:25:31 GMT
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro
	ups.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<7xk51fgazf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: <0006817d$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 13:35:26 -0700, Kee Nethery wrote:


> > Why exactly is posting an open comment on a bug tracker somehow
> > inferior to posting an open comment on a wiki?
> 
> It's a good question and deserves a good answer.
> 
> * Fewer Steps
> * Immediate
> * Does not need to be formally reviewed
> * Easier to search

The last one is actually wrong, because the Python bug tracker is indexed 
by Google.

As for the rest, you're right that the current bug-tracker puts up 
barriers to people submitting comments and bugs. That's actually a good 
thing. The only thing worse than not enough information is too much 
information, and the current situation does a good job of discouraging 
the sorts of people who submit bad bug reports (e.g. duplicates of bug 
reports, bug reports for things fixed years ago, bug reports that are due 
to mistakes in their code, etc.).


> For example  
> purposes, I'll use the following page:
> http://docs.python.org/reference/lexical_analysis.html
> Lets say the user is in section 2.1.3 Comments

Disclaimer: python.org is down at the moment, so I can't check that page 
to see precisely what you're talking about.


> Here's the scenario: The user wanted to include "#" in one of their
> strings and the IDE kept interpreting it as a comment. But they really
> need to use that character in the string. Eventually they find out that
> they can escape the character in their string so that Python stops
> thinking it is the beginning of a comment.

Er, that would be a bug in the IDE, surely? Inside strings, # is an 
ordinary character with no special meaning.


>>> s = "this is a string with an unescaped # in it"
>>> s
'this is a string with an unescaped # in it'


The Python docs are supposed to be about Python the language, not work-
arounds for IDE bugs.


[...]
> Lets assume that Python experts all agree that  
> the docs should get updated with this gotcha (which as a newbie, they  
> are not sure that is a valid assumption and would probably just halt  
> in their quest to get the docs updated).

Good.

As a newbie, you SHOULD assume that anything you think is a bug is 
probably a bug in YOUR code, not Python, and the same goes for 
documentation bugs. If you don't understand something in the docs, 
chances are that it's a problem with you, not the docs. Your first port 
of call should be the tutor list, or here, and not to "fix" the docs by 
putting in noise that just gets in the way of the intended audience, 
namely experienced developers.


> and there is zero confidence that as a newbie, anyone cares about what  
> they found confusing, after all, they are just a newbie and not worthy  
> of altering the documentation. (Certainly that opinion has been  
> expressed several times on this mailing list).

No, we care. We just don't want to have the docs filled with all the hand-
holding and introductory stuff which the newbie needs. As a developer, 
you will outgrow the need for training wheels. Why force training wheels 
on the docs that you will be referring to for your entire career as a 
programmer, when you only need them for the first few months? There are 
plenty of docs aimed at newbies, and mailing lists where you can ask 
questions.

Putting user-comments on a separate page separates the noisy, low-value 
comments from the good stuff, but it increases the efforts needed by the 
webpage admin (who is going to deal with the comment spam? who is going 
to go through the user-comments stripping out the total nonsense put in 
by helpful ignoramuses?). It works for Wikipedia, because there are tens 
of thousands of users contributing small amounts of effort, and hundreds 
putting in a lot of effort, but even there there is a major problem with 
vandalism. We don't have those resources.

By the way, if a person wants to contribute, and can demonstrate 
competence, reliability, good-sense and trustworthiness, there's no 
reason why he or she couldn't get a check-in account for the Python docs. 
(All the Python docs are written by volunteers.) A good way to 
demonstrate these things is by submitting good-quality doc improvements 
to the bug-tracker. If a person can't be bothered to do so, because it 
requires effort to get an account, that goes a long way to demonstrating 
the *lack* of reliability which will disqualify them from the job.


> Very few people would think to search the bug tracking system for help  
> with some specific function. If someone is having trouble with the #  
> sign in their strings, the bug tracking system is not going to be at  
> the top of their list for search locations, especially when the bug  
> tracking system is not mentioned and when found requires a confirmed  
> login.

You don't need a login to view bug reports, only to modify them.

If you want an open-access documentation system go right ahead and build 
one. There are plenty of wikis available to use, and the Python docs are 
freely available as your starting point. I might even contribute myself. 
I just don't want it mixed in with the official docs: I want a clear 
separation between what's officially sanctioned and what's not.


-- 
Steven


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 00:46:51 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 21:46:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com> 
	
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro 
	ups.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com> 
	
	 
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com> 
	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<7xk51fgazf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
	
	
	
	<0006817d$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 7, 9:25?pm, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
> If you want an open-access documentation system go right ahead and build
> one. There are plenty of wikis available to use, and the Python docs are
> freely available as your starting point. I might even contribute myself.
> I just don't want it mixed in with the official docs: I want a clear
> separation between what's officially sanctioned and what's not.

The PyGame documentation has a "Click to view comments" box.  That
would be A. low profile, and B. distinct from official documentation
enough for me.

It'd probably be useful, but might also attract spam and lots of
useless fluff, because it's likely to be much higher volume than
documentation on other projects.


Carl Banks


From http  Sat Aug  8 01:06:23 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 07 Aug 2009 22:06:23 -0700
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro
	ups.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<7xk51fgazf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
	
	
	
	<0006817d$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <7xd476rj1s.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Steven D'Aprano  writes:
> As for the rest, you're right that the current bug-tracker puts up 
> barriers to people submitting comments and bugs. That's actually a good 
> thing. The only thing worse than not enough information is too much 
> information, and the current situation does a good job of discouraging 
> the sorts of people who submit bad bug reports (e.g. duplicates of bug 
> reports, bug reports for things fixed years ago, bug reports that are due 
> to mistakes in their code, etc.).

Stephen, Alex, etc.: have you actually used the php.net doc system?
Don't knock it til you've tried it.  IMO it is superior to Python's
system.  I don't use PHP much these days.


From http  Sat Aug  8 01:09:23 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 07 Aug 2009 22:09:23 -0700
Subject: question: why isn't a byte of a hash more uniform? how could I
	improve my code to cure that?
References: 
	
Message-ID: <7x8whuriws.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

L?szl? S?ndor  writes:
> OK, I understand. Could anyone suggest a better way to do this, then?
> 
> (Recap: random-looking, close-to uniform assignment of one number out
> of four possibilities to strings.)

Use a cryptographic hash function like md5 (deprecated for security
purposes but should be ok for this application).  The built-in Python
hash function is made for hashing symbols and is designed to avoid
collisions when you have a bunch of sequential identifiers (a,b,c...).
That is, it deliberately does NOT resemble a random function, which
would have a certain number of collisions by chance.


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 01:10:32 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 22:10:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bug or feature: double strings as one
References: 
	  
	<000674d6$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <14b5efce-e0b8-4455-ba9e-43b4b0df5e20@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 7, 10:31?pm, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
...(snip excessive showmanship) :-)

Ah Steven thats a real nice "snappy comeback" and some may get blinded
by the "black magic" but basically all you are saying is that "version
a" takes less overhead than "version b", compilation wise... but let's
dig a little deeper shall we?

First of all, i don't know about you but i don't set around all day
hard coding string data into my programs so the nano second difference
gained between auto-magic-string-concatination and "s1"+"s2"+"sN"
really doesn't justify a feature(bug??) like this that breaks the Zen
wide open. Sadly all it serves is to confuse new comers and contribute
line noise to the tutorial -- of which there is too much already!

Sure it's a nice parlor trick, but not much more...

Q: Steven, how often do you actually use this feature, i mean *really*
use it?


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 01:50:24 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 22:50:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bug or feature: double strings as one
References: 
	
	<5Y2dnfnYAdsl0-HXnZ2dnUVZ_j9i4p2d@pdx.net> 
	
Message-ID: <8723453a-2836-4e9b-ac98-1fc4886da074@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 7, 10:00?am, Grant Edwards  wrote:
> On 2009-08-07, Scott David Daniels  wrote:
>
> > Grant Edwards wrote:
> >> On 2009-08-07, durumdara  wrote:
> >>> In other languages, like Delphi (Pascal), Javascript, SQL, etc., I
> >>> must concatenate the strings with some sign, like "+" or "||".
>
> >> In other languages like Ruby, awk, C, C++, etc. adjacent string
> >> constants are concatenated.
>
> > I must learn this "etc." language, I hear it mentioned all the time :-)
>
> Definitely. ?Not only does it have _all_ the features, it even
> manages to simultaneously have several mutually-exclusive
> features.

http://www.geocities.com/connorbd/tarpit/magentaaarm.html


(It's on Geocities, yikes, someone better archive that....)

Carl Banks


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 01:52:19 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 22:52:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Windows 7 : any problems installing or running Python ?
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 7, 10:05?pm, Dave WB3DWE wrote:
...(snip)

Oh God, windows 7 is here :(.  What great functionality has M$
bestowed on the weary peasants now? More importantly why the heck am i
still using windows in 2009? i think i will dump my winders os for
good this year and go linux from here on out (can i get a hell yea?).
Sorry Dave i don't think i'll ever try windows 7 but i hope you find a
solution because i do want you to use Python.

Oh and Google, the masses are ready for the windows replacement....
Google? ....Goooooooogle!!!



From rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm  Sat Aug  8 02:39:49 2009
From: rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm (Roel Schroeven)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 08:39:49 +0200
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
In-Reply-To: <7xd476rj1s.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: 
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro
	ups.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<7xk51fgazf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
	
	
	
	<0006817d$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<7xd476rj1s.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: 

Paul Rubin schreef:
> Steven D'Aprano  writes:
>> As for the rest, you're right that the current bug-tracker puts up 
>> barriers to people submitting comments and bugs. That's actually a good 
>> thing. The only thing worse than not enough information is too much 
>> information, and the current situation does a good job of discouraging 
>> the sorts of people who submit bad bug reports (e.g. duplicates of bug 
>> reports, bug reports for things fixed years ago, bug reports that are due 
>> to mistakes in their code, etc.).
> 
> Stephen, Alex, etc.: have you actually used the php.net doc system?
> Don't knock it til you've tried it.  IMO it is superior to Python's
> system.  I don't use PHP much these days.

I have to use PHP from time to time, in which cases I often have to use
the manual on php.net. I don't like it at all.

The official documentation is often incomplete, leaving out the details
I need and forcing me to read the comments.

Which I don't want to do, since many comments show a lack of
understanding of the subject matter. I have to read all of them, trying
to find out which ones are correct and which ones are wrong (or
misleading) to get the complete picture.


I like Python's documentation, where I can be confident that the
documentation is correct (except in the case of the very exceptional
bug) and mostly clear, much better.

-- 
The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge
faster than society gathers wisdom.
  -- Isaac Asimov

Roel Schroeven


From koranthala at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 03:26:50 2009
From: koranthala at gmail.com (koranthala)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 00:26:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	
	
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	 
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro ups.com> 
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	 
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <40ed2690-3c6d-4413-a8a9-6bce7a304077@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 7, 5:15?pm, Dave Angel  wrote:
> alex23 wrote:
> > Paul Rubin  wrote:
>
> >> The PHP docs as I remember are sort of regular (non-publically
> >> editable) doc pages, each of which has a public discussion thread
> >> where people can post questions and answers about the topic of that
> >> doc page. ?I thought it worked really well. ?The main thing is that
> >> the good stuff from the comment section gets folded into the actual
> >> doc now and then.
>
> > I'd still like to see this kept out of the official docs as much as
> > possible, mostly for reasons of brevity & clarity. I think the
> > official docs should be considered definitive and not require a
> > hermeneutic evaluation against user comments to ensure they're still
> > correct...
>
> > How about a secondary site that embeds the docs and provides
> > commenting functionality around it? That's certainly a finitely scoped
> > project that those with issues about the docs could establish and
> > contribute to, with the possibility of it gaining official support
> > later once it gains traction.
>
> I share your concern about unmonitored comments. ?However, it seems a
> useful possibility would be for the "official" pages to each have
> specially-marked links that possibly lead to such user comments. ?
> Clearly they'd have to marked carefully, so that naive users don't
> confuse the two. ?But otherwise, it feels like a good idea.
>
> In my case, I usually access the docs via the Windows help file. ?So
> it'd be quite easy for me to recognize that once I've gotten to a
> browser page, I'm not in Kansas any more. ?But that could be also
> accomplished by having a very different stylesheet for the user comments
> page.
>
> DaveA

The best example that I have seen is djangobook.
The comment system in it is quite exquisite.
It would be good for the Python docs to have such a mechanism.


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 03:30:06 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 00:30:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: syntax checker in python
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 7, 1:39?pm, horos11  wrote:
> ps - I just realized that it isn't enough to do:
>
> python -c 'import /path/to/script'
>
> since that actually executes any statement inside of the script
> (wheras all I want to do is check syntax)
>
> So - let me reprhase that - exactly how can you do a syntax check in
> python? Something like perl's -c:
>
> ? ? ?perl -c script_name.p

A quick and dirty way would be to use the py_compile:

python -m py_compile /path/to/script

Warning: this simply appends "c" to the filename and writes out the
compiled file (kind of dumb behavior, actually), so if it's a script
you probably want to delete it afterwards:

python -m py_compile /path/to/script ; rm -f /path/to/scriptc


A little better might be to write a little Python helper script that
directs output to nowhere (something like this, feel free to
embellish):

import py_compile
py_compile.compile(sys.argv[1],'/dev/null',None,False)



Carl Banks


From dmitrey.kroshko at scipy.org  Sat Aug  8 04:50:27 2009
From: dmitrey.kroshko at scipy.org (dmitrey)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 01:50:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: is it possible to overload operator "^"?
Message-ID: <89523a6b-c609-4b3f-9f01-4aa219dfd916@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>

hi all,
is it possible to overload operator "^"? (AFAIK __pow__ overloads **
instead of ^)
Thank you in advance, D.


From efotinis at y  Sat Aug  8 04:53:28 2009
From: efotinis at y (Elias Fotinis (eliasf))
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 11:53:28 +0300
Subject: unique-ifying a list
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <1249721637.162236@athprx03>

"kj" wrote:
> I suppose that I could write something like
>
> def uniquify(items):
>    seen = set()
>    ret = []
>    for i in items:
>        if not i in seen:
>            ret.append(i)
>            seen.add(i)
>    return ret
>
> But this seems to me like such a commonly needed operation that I
> find it hard to believe one would need to resort to such self-rolled
> solutions.  Isn't there some more standard (and hopefully more
> efficient, as in "C-coded"/built-in) approach?

The most "standard" way is a recipe from the itertools docs (I'd give a 
link, but python.org is down at the moment):

    def unique_everseen(iterable, key=None):
        "List unique elements, preserving order. Remember all elements ever 
seen."
        # unique_everseen('AAAABBBCCDAABBB') --> A B C D
        # unique_everseen('ABBCcAD', str.lower) --> A B C D
        seen = set()
        seen_add = seen.add
        if key is None:
            for element in iterable:
                if element not in seen:
                    seen_add(element)
                    yield element
        else:
            for element in iterable:
                k = key(element)
                if k not in seen:
                    seen_add(k)
                    yield element

All the recipes mentioned there are pretty handy, so I've made a module 
(iterutil.py) out of them.



From gherron at islandtraining.com  Sat Aug  8 05:02:19 2009
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 02:02:19 -0700
Subject: is it possible to overload operator "^"?
In-Reply-To: <89523a6b-c609-4b3f-9f01-4aa219dfd916@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
References: <89523a6b-c609-4b3f-9f01-4aa219dfd916@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A7D3F1B.5070100@islandtraining.com>

dmitrey wrote:
> hi all,
> is it possible to overload operator "^"? (AFAIK __pow__ overloads **
> instead of ^)
> Thank you in advance, D.
>   

The ^ operator is not an exponentiation, but rather the xor operator.  
Thus you can override it with the __xor__ method.

Beware, if you are thinking of ^ as an exponentiation like operator, the 
operator precedence will seem wrong.



From deets at nospam.web.de  Sat Aug  8 05:06:13 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 11:06:13 +0200
Subject: is it possible to overload operator "^"?
In-Reply-To: <89523a6b-c609-4b3f-9f01-4aa219dfd916@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
References: <89523a6b-c609-4b3f-9f01-4aa219dfd916@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7e4tg5F2eirarU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

dmitrey schrieb:
> hi all,
> is it possible to overload operator "^"? (AFAIK __pow__ overloads **
> instead of ^)
> Thank you in advance, D.

Did you read the link I gave you for your last question?

It shows __xor__ as special method.

Diez


From efotinis at y  Sat Aug  8 05:44:16 2009
From: efotinis at y (Elias Fotinis (eliasf))
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 12:44:16 +0300
Subject: Pywin32 @ windows 7
In-Reply-To: 
References: <004a01ca1733$a9768c10$4605a8c0@btsc1>
	
Message-ID: <1249724885.215365@athprx03>

"Dennis Lee Bieber" wrote:
> Ever consider that the name has WIN32 in, and not WIN64, for a
> reason?

Win32 is a misnomer; it just means "non-Win16". The same API exists in 
Windows x64 (with pointers expanded to 64-bit, of course). 



From efotinis at y  Sat Aug  8 05:46:59 2009
From: efotinis at y (Elias Fotinis (eliasf))
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 12:46:59 +0300
Subject: Pywin32 @ windows 7
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <1249724885.744992@athprx03>

"Algirdas Brazas" wrote:
> Did anyone manage to get windows extensions installet on windows 7 64 bit?
> As far as I try I get only "Setup program invalid or damaged".

Try downloading the installer again. It should work then.

I haven't tested it on Win7, but my Vista machine has Python and pywin32 
x64. 



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Aug  8 06:01:55 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 11:01:55 +0100
Subject: Bug or feature: double strings as one
In-Reply-To: 
References: 		<5Y2dnfnYAdsl0-HXnZ2dnUVZ_j9i4p2d@pdx.net>
	
Message-ID: 

Unknown wrote:
> On 2009-08-07, Scott David Daniels  wrote:
>> Grant Edwards wrote:
>>> On 2009-08-07, durumdara  wrote:
>>>> In other languages, like Delphi (Pascal), Javascript, SQL, etc., I
>>>> must concatenate the strings with some sign, like "+" or "||".
>>> In other languages like Ruby, awk, C, C++, etc. adjacent string
>>> constants are concatenated.
>> I must learn this "etc." language, I hear it mentioned all the time :-)
> 
> Definitely.  Not only does it have _all_ the features, it even
> manages to simultaneously have several mutually-exclusive
> features.
> 
I have tried google for this "etc." language but failed dismally.  Does 
it belong here? http://www.thefreecountry.com/compilers/esoteric.shtml

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From efotinis at y  Sat Aug  8 06:02:45 2009
From: efotinis at y (Elias Fotinis (eliasf))
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 13:02:45 +0300
Subject: Bug or feature: double strings as one
In-Reply-To: <8723453a-2836-4e9b-ac98-1fc4886da074@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	<5Y2dnfnYAdsl0-HXnZ2dnUVZ_j9i4p2d@pdx.net>
	
	<8723453a-2836-4e9b-ac98-1fc4886da074@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1249725805.853806@athprx03>

"Carl Banks" wrote:
> http://www.geocities.com/connorbd/tarpit/magentaaarm.html
> (It's on Geocities, yikes, someone better archive that....)

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.geocities.com/connorbd/tarpit/magentaaarm.html

:)



From dmitrey.kroshko at scipy.org  Sat Aug  8 06:04:11 2009
From: dmitrey.kroshko at scipy.org (dmitrey)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 03:04:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: is it possible to overload operator "^"?
References: <89523a6b-c609-4b3f-9f01-4aa219dfd916@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<7e4tg5F2eirarU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: 

> the operator precedence will seem wrong
So, are there any ways to change operator precedence (for my class)?

To Diez:
yes, but I haven't paid attention to xor. BTW the url is currently
unavailable (Network Timeout. The server at docs.python.org is taking
too long to respond.).

On Aug 8, 12:06 pm, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
> Did you read the link I gave you for your last question?
> It shows __xor__ as special method.
> Diez


From deets at nospam.web.de  Sat Aug  8 06:08:20 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 12:08:20 +0200
Subject: is it possible to overload operator "^"?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <89523a6b-c609-4b3f-9f01-4aa219dfd916@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<7e4tg5F2eirarU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
Message-ID: <7e514kF2ekgqfU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

dmitrey schrieb:
>> the operator precedence will seem wrong
> So, are there any ways to change operator precedence (for my class)?

No. Those are built-in.

Diez 
 
 


From enleverLesX_XXmcX at XmclavXeauX.com  Sat Aug  8 06:39:14 2009
From: enleverLesX_XXmcX at XmclavXeauX.com (Michel Claveau - MVP)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 12:39:14 +0200
Subject: Windows 7 : any problems installing or running Python ?
References: 
Message-ID: <4a7d55d4$0$12642$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr>

Hi! 

I use, all days, Python 2.6 + Pywin32 on Win-7-64 bits. Without problem
(I confirm : pywin 32 on 64 bits).

@-salutations
-- 
Michel Claveau 


From rylesny at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 06:58:03 2009
From: rylesny at gmail.com (ryles)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 03:58:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: unique-ifying a list
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 7, 4:53?pm, kj  wrote:
> Suppose that x is some list. ?To produce a version of the list with
> duplicate elements removed one could, I suppose, do this:
>
> ? ? x = list(set(x))
>
> but I expect that this will not preserve the original order of
> elements.
>

OrderedSet is most likely on the way, but for now Python 3.1 and 2.7
have OrderedDict. For 3.0 and 2.6 the recipe is here:

http://code.activestate.com/recipes/576669

With OrderedDict you can do:

OrderedDict.fromkeys(x).keys()  # Returns an iterator in 3.x, a list
in 2.x.


From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Sat Aug  8 07:16:12 2009
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 13:16:12 +0200
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
References: 
	
	<2qcrk6-doj.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	
	<028b1ce0$0$5185$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<556b00a3-bbbf-4076-a300-d20839a313c8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<0006746a$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

* Steven D'Aprano (08 Aug 2009 03:29:43 GMT)
> On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 17:13:07 +0200, Thorsten Kampe wrote:
> > One guy claims he has times between 2.7 and 5.7 seconds when
> > benchmarking more or less randomly generated "one million different
> > lines". That *is* *exactly* nothing.
> 
> We agree that in the grand scheme of things, a difference of 2.7 seconds 
> versus 5.7 seconds is a trivial difference if your entire program takes 
> (say) 8 minutes to run. You won't even notice it.

Exactly.

> But why assume that the program takes 8 minutes to run? Perhaps it takes 
> 8 seconds to run, and 6 seconds of that is the decoding. Then halving 
> that reduces the total runtime from 8 seconds to 5, which is a noticeable 
> speed increase to the user, and significant if you then run that program 
> tens of thousands of times.

Exactly. That's why it doesn't make sense to benchmark decode()/unicode
() isolated - meaning out of the context of your actual program.

> By all means, reminding people that pre-mature optimization is a 
> waste of time, but it's possible to take that attitude too far to Planet 
> Bizarro. At the point that you start insisting, and emphasising, that a 
> three second time difference is "*exactly*" zero,

Exactly. Because it was not generated in a real world use case but by 
running a simple loop one millions times. Why one million times? Because 
by running it "only" one hundred thousand times the difference would 
have seen even less relevant.

> it seems to me that this is about you winning rather than you giving
> good advice.

I already gave good advice:
1. don't benchmark
2. don't benchmark until you have an actual performance issue
3. if you benchmark then the whole application and not single commands

It's really easy: Michael has working code. With that he can easily 
write two versions - one that uses decode() and one that uses unicode(). 
He can benchmark these with some real world input he often uses by 
running it a hundred or a thousand times (even a million if he likes). 
Then he can compare the results. I doubt that there will be any 
noticeable difference.

Thorsten


From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Aug  8 07:38:13 2009
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 04:38:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ANN: gnupg v0.2.1 released
Message-ID: 

A new version of the Python module which wraps GnuPG has been
released.

What Changed?
=============
This is a minor bug-fix release. See the project website (
http://code.google.com/p/python-gnupg/ ) for more information.

The current version passes all tests on Windows (Python 2.4, 2.5, 2.6,
3.1, Jython 2.5.0) and Ubuntu (Python 2.4, 2.5, 2.6, 3.0, Jython
2.5.0).

What Does It Do?
================
The gnupg module allows Python programs to make use of the
functionality provided by the Gnu Privacy Guard (abbreviated GPG or
GnuPG). Using this module, Python programs can encrypt and decrypt
data, digitally sign documents and verify digital signatures, manage
(generate, list and delete) encryption keys, using proven Public Key
Infrastructure (PKI) encryption technology based on OpenPGP.

This module is expected to be used with Python versions >= 2.4, as it
makes use of the subprocess module which appeared in that version of
Python. This module is a newer version derived from earlier work by
Andrew Kuchling, Richard Jones and Steve Traugott.

A test suite using unittest is included with the source distribution.

Simple usage:

>>> import gnupg
>>> gpg = gnupg.GPG(gnupghome='/path/to/keyring/directory')
>>> gpg.list_keys()
[{
  ...
  'fingerprint': 'F819EE7705497D73E3CCEE65197D5DAC68F1AAB2',
  'keyid': '197D5DAC68F1AAB2',
  'length': '1024',
  'type': 'pub',
  'uids': ['', 'Gary Gross (A test user) ']},
 {
  ...
  'fingerprint': '37F24DD4B918CC264D4F31D60C5FEFA7A921FC4A',
  'keyid': '0C5FEFA7A921FC4A',
  'length': '1024',
  ...
  'uids': ['', 'Danny Davis (A test user) ']}]
>>> encrypted = gpg.encrypt("Hello, world!", ['0C5FEFA7A921FC4A'])
>>> str(encrypted)
'-----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE-----\nVersion: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)\n
\nhQIOA/6NHMDTXUwcEAf
...
-----END PGP MESSAGE-----\n'
>>> decrypted = gpg.decrypt(str(encrypted), passphrase='secret')
>>> str(decrypted)
'Hello, world!'
>>> signed = gpg.sign("Goodbye, world!", passphrase='secret')
>>> verified = verified = gpg.verify(str(signed))
>>> print "Verified" if verified else "Not verified"
'Verified'

For more information, visit http://code.google.com/p/python-gnupg/ -
as always, your feedback is most welcome (especially bug reports,
patches and suggestions for improvement). Enjoy!

Cheers

Vinay Sajip
Red Dove Consultants Ltd.


From kushal.kumaran+python at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 07:47:50 2009
From: kushal.kumaran+python at gmail.com (Kushal Kumaran)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 17:17:50 +0530
Subject: Database query execution times in Python?
In-Reply-To: <24870050.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <24870050.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <1e364c4e0908080447s1496e40bkbf60f80020be863b@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 12:12 AM, pwnedd wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I've been writing some code using libraries based on the Python Database API
> 2.0 (MySQLdb & pg), and so far things are working really well. There is one
> thing that I have not been able to figure out how to do, however:
>
> Retrieve the time is took a given query to execute.
>
> Does anyone know if this is possible?
>

If nothing else, you could always use the time.time() function for
timing sections of code.  This will also include the time it took to
transport the result from the database to your application, though.

-- 
kushal


From no.email at please.post  Sat Aug  8 08:11:19 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 12:11:19 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Why all the __double_underscored_vars__?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

In  Chris Rebert  writes:

>The double-underscores indicate that the Python interpreter itself
>usually is the caller of the method, and as such some level of "magic"
>may be associated with it. Other languages have you do the equivalent
>of `def +():` or `def operator +()` to override an operator, the
>keyword or symbol serving a similar warning that "here be magic".

In this case, then I hope that some of these __items__ get demoted
to a more mundane level, so that the notion of "magic" doesn't get
trivialized by everyday idioms like:

if __name__ == '__main__':
    # etc

There are a few in this category...  I figure that they are cases
of "atavistic magic".

I bring this up because I find it quite difficult to explain to my
students (who are complete newcomers to programming) all the
__underscored__ stuff that even rank noobs like them have to deal
with.  (Trust me, to most of them your reply to my post would be
as clear as mud.)  This suggests to me that there's something a
bit unnatural about some of these __items__.

Anyway, thanks for your post.  I see your point.

kynn


From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Sat Aug  8 08:19:44 2009
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 14:19:44 +0200
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
References: 
	
	<2qcrk6-doj.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	
	<028b1ce0$0$5185$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<556b00a3-bbbf-4076-a300-d20839a313c8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<006e7808-74e7-4d29-a7bc-01492d14de65@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

* alex23 (Fri, 7 Aug 2009 10:45:29 -0700 (PDT))
> garabik-news-2005... at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk wrote:
> > I am not sure I understood that. Must be my English :-)
> 
> I just parsed it as "blah blah blah I won't admit I'm wrong" and
> didn't miss anything substantive.

Alex, there are still a number of performance optimizations that require 
a thorough optimizer like you. Like using short identifiers instead of 
long ones. I guess you could easily prove that by comparing "a = 0" to 
"a_long_identifier = 0" and running it one hundred trillion times. The 
performance gain could easily add up to *days*. Keep us updated.

Thorsten


From gdamjan at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 08:25:40 2009
From: gdamjan at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JTQsNC80ZjQsNC9INCT0LXQvtGA0LPQuNC10LLRgdC60Lg=?=)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 14:25:40 +0200
Subject: String to valid Python identifier
References: 
	<4a7a9328$0$2355$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <5f70l6-70h.ln1@archaeopteryx.softver.org.mk>



>> Is there any easy function in the stdlib to convert any random string
>> in a valid Python identifier .. possibly by replacing non-valid
>> characters with _ ?
> 
> I think this is fairly underspecified as a problem statement. A
> solution that would meet your specification would be

True, I was thinking that if there was an obvious solution I'd get the 
answer right away.. so it seems there's not.

I did try the string.maketrans way... it was a bit ugly so I decided to 
ask here if I'm missing something... maybe I'll try maketrans again.


ps.
by "convert" I didn't mean a full transformation... I was more hoping 
for the least intrusive transformation that would still leave 
discernible resemblance of the original string. 



-- 
?????? ( http://softver.org.mk/damjan/ )

When you do things right, people won't be sure if you did anything at 
all.


From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Sat Aug  8 08:28:54 2009
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 14:28:54 +0200
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
References: 
	
	<2qcrk6-doj.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	
	<028b1ce0$0$5185$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<556b00a3-bbbf-4076-a300-d20839a313c8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

* garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk (Fri, 7 Aug 2009 
17:41:38 +0000 (UTC))
> Thorsten Kampe  wrote:
> > If you increase the number of loops to one million or one billion or
> > whatever even the slightest completely negligible difference will
> > occur. The same thing will happen if you just increase the corpus of
> > words to a million, trillion or whatever. The performance
> > implications of that are exactly none.
> 
> I am not sure I understood that. Must be my English :-)

I guess you understand me very well and I understand you very well. If 
the performance gain you want to prove doesn't show with 600,000 words, 
you test again with 18,000,000 words and if that is not impressive 
enough with 600,000,000 words. Great.

Or if a million repetitions of your "improved" code don't show the 
expected "performance advantage" you run it a billion times. Even 
greater. Keep on optimzing.

Thorsten


From cournape at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 09:02:37 2009
From: cournape at gmail.com (David Cournapeau)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 22:02:37 +0900
Subject: Why all the __double_underscored_vars__?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <5b8d13220908080602y65815858yda25ddbfd3a05031@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 9:11 PM, kj wrote:
> In  Chris Rebert  writes:
>
>>The double-underscores indicate that the Python interpreter itself
>>usually is the caller of the method, and as such some level of "magic"
>>may be associated with it. Other languages have you do the equivalent
>>of `def +():` or `def operator +()` to override an operator, the
>>keyword or symbol serving a similar warning that "here be magic".
>
> In this case, then I hope that some of these __items__ get demoted
> to a more mundane level, so that the notion of "magic" doesn't get
> trivialized by everyday idioms like:
>
> if __name__ == '__main__':
> ? ?# etc
>
> There are a few in this category... ?I figure that they are cases
> of "atavistic magic".
>
> I bring this up because I find it quite difficult to explain to my
> students (who are complete newcomers to programming) all the
> __underscored__ stuff that even rank noobs like them have to deal
> with. ?(Trust me, to most of them your reply to my post would be
> as clear as mud.)

Maybe your students do not need to know about it, at least at the
beginning ? I heavily use python, and do not use the underscore
methods so much most of the time, except for __init__,

cheers,

David


From michael at stroeder.com  Sat Aug  8 09:09:23 2009
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?=)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 15:09:23 +0200
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	<2qcrk6-doj.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	
	<028b1ce0$0$5185$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<556b00a3-bbbf-4076-a300-d20839a313c8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<0006746a$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <41a0l6-2u4.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>

Thorsten Kampe wrote:
> * Steven D'Aprano (08 Aug 2009 03:29:43 GMT)
>> But why assume that the program takes 8 minutes to run? Perhaps it takes 
>> 8 seconds to run, and 6 seconds of that is the decoding. Then halving 
>> that reduces the total runtime from 8 seconds to 5, which is a noticeable 
>> speed increase to the user, and significant if you then run that program 
>> tens of thousands of times.
> 
> Exactly. That's why it doesn't make sense to benchmark decode()/unicode
> () isolated - meaning out of the context of your actual program.

Thorsten, the point is you're too arrogant to admit that making such a general
statement like you did without knowing *anything* about the context is simply
false. So this is not a technial matter. It's mainly an issue with your attitude.

>> By all means, reminding people that pre-mature optimization is a 
>> waste of time, but it's possible to take that attitude too far to Planet 
>> Bizarro. At the point that you start insisting, and emphasising, that a 
>> three second time difference is "*exactly*" zero,
> 
> Exactly. Because it was not generated in a real world use case but by 
> running a simple loop one millions times. Why one million times? Because 
> by running it "only" one hundred thousand times the difference would 
> have seen even less relevant.

I was running it one million times to mitigate influences on the timing by
other background processes which is a common technique when benchmarking. I
was mainly interested in the percentage which is indeed significant. The
absolute times also strongly depend on the hardware where the software is
running. So your comment about the absolute times are complete nonsense. I'm
eager that this software should also run with acceptable response times on
hardware much slower than my development machine.

> I already gave good advice:
> 1. don't benchmark
> 2. don't benchmark until you have an actual performance issue
> 3. if you benchmark then the whole application and not single commands

You don't know anything about what I'm doing and what my aim is. So your
general rules don't apply.

> It's really easy: Michael has working code. With that he can easily 
> write two versions - one that uses decode() and one that uses unicode().

Yes, I have working code which was originally written before .decode() being
added in Python 2.2. Therefore I wondered whether it would be nice for
readability to replace unicode() by s.decode() since the software does not
support Python versions prior 2.3 anymore anyway. But one aspect is also
performance and hence my question and testing.

Ciao, Michael.


From vlastimil.brom at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 09:21:38 2009
From: vlastimil.brom at gmail.com (Vlastimil Brom)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 15:21:38 +0200
Subject: String to valid Python identifier
In-Reply-To: <5f70l6-70h.ln1@archaeopteryx.softver.org.mk>
References: 
	<4a7a9328$0$2355$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<5f70l6-70h.ln1@archaeopteryx.softver.org.mk>
Message-ID: <9fdb569a0908080621w116dd3e7qbdb4019bbb0f691a@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/8 ?????? ??????????? :
>
>
>>> Is there any easy function in the stdlib to convert any random string
>>> in a valid Python identifier .. possibly by replacing non-valid
>>> characters with _ ?
...
>
> ps.
> by "convert" I didn't mean a full transformation... I was more hoping
> for the least intrusive transformation that would still leave
> discernible resemblance of the original string.
>
>
>
> --
> ?????? ( http://softver.org.mk/damjan/ )
>
> When you do things right, people won't be sure if you did anything at
> all.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

Depending on the needs (speed, readability ...), the regular
expression replacement might be viable too:
>>> import re
>>> print re.sub(r"[^a-zA-Z0-9_]", r"_", u"a?bc d:e?_123's - foo?!var")
a_bc_d_e__123_s___foo__var
>>> print re.sub(r"\W", r"_", u"a?bc d:e?_123's - foo?!var") # equivalent
a_bc_d_e__123_s___foo__var
>>>

Additionally, as with the other approaches, you also have to check for
the (illegal) starting digit and replace it or prepend some valid
prefix.
hth
 vbr


From lcazarre at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 09:31:02 2009
From: lcazarre at gmail.com (Caezar)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 06:31:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: www.python.org website is down?
Message-ID: 

I cannot connect to the official Python website. I get the following
error message:

"Connection Interrupted
The connection to the server was reset while the page was loading.
The network link was interrupted while negotiating a connection.
Please try again."

Are you experiencing the same problem?


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Aug  8 09:41:57 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 14:41:57 +0100
Subject: www.python.org website is down?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Caezar wrote:
> I cannot connect to the official Python website. I get the following
> error message:
> 
> "Connection Interrupted
> The connection to the server was reset while the page was loading.
> The network link was interrupted while negotiating a connection.
> Please try again."
> 
> Are you experiencing the same problem?
Yes, it's been down for several hours.

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From fasteliteprogrammer at yahoo.com  Sat Aug  8 09:48:04 2009
From: fasteliteprogrammer at yahoo.com (Craig)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 06:48:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: www.python.org website is down?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <314905.49987.qm@web36501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Yes the same prob.

--- On Sat, 8/8/09, Mark Lawrence  wrote:

> From: Mark Lawrence 
> Subject: Re: www.python.org website is down?
> To: python-list at python.org
> Date: Saturday, August 8, 2009, 8:41 AM
> Caezar wrote:
> > I cannot connect to the official Python website. I get
> the following
> > error message:
> > 
> > "Connection Interrupted
> > The connection to the server was reset while the page
> was loading.
> > The network link was interrupted while negotiating a
> connection.
> > Please try again."
> > 
> > Are you experiencing the same problem?
> Yes, it's been down for several hours.
> 
> -- Kindest regards.
> 
> Mark Lawrence.
> 
> -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 


      


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Aug  8 09:48:16 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 14:48:16 +0100
Subject: www.python.org website is down?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A7D8220.90806@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Caezar wrote:
> I cannot connect to the official Python website. I get the following
> error message:
> 
> "Connection Interrupted
> The connection to the server was reset while the page was loading.
> The network link was interrupted while negotiating a connection.
> Please try again."
> 
> Are you experiencing the same problem?

A.M. Kuchling said:

"""
Both www.python.org and svn.python.org are down.  They're hosted on
the same machine, and it seems to have run into disk problems and
hasn't rebooted even after power-cycling.  Thomas Wouters will be
visiting the machine physically tomorrow to try to diagnose the
problem.

(The machine also hosts planet.python.org and hg.python.org.)
"""


From bh at izb.knu.ac.kr  Sat Aug  8 10:26:53 2009
From: bh at izb.knu.ac.kr (Byung-Hee HWANG)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 23:26:53 +0900
Subject: www.python.org website is down?
References: 
Message-ID: <86ab2a4c0i.fsf@betla.izb.knu.ac.kr>

Caezar  writes:

> I cannot connect to the official Python website. I get the following
> error message:
>
> "Connection Interrupted
> The connection to the server was reset while the page was loading.
> The network link was interrupted while negotiating a connection.
> Please try again."
>
> Are you experiencing the same problem?

Yes, me, too. Now i can't open the URL www.python.org ;;

-- 
"But there's a little more. Don Corleone is too modest."
		-- Emilio Barzini, "Chapter 20", page 286


From danielwong at berkeley.edu  Sat Aug  8 11:15:24 2009
From: danielwong at berkeley.edu (Daniel Wong)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 08:15:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: www.python.org website is down?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

>
> A.M. Kuchling said:
>
> """
> Bothwww.python.organd svn.python.org are down. ?They're hosted on
> the same machine, and it seems to have run into disk problems and
> hasn't rebooted even after power-cycling. ?Thomas Wouters will be
> visiting the machine physically tomorrow to try to diagnose the
> problem.
>
> (The machine also hosts planet.python.org and hg.python.org.)
> """

This is probably a stupid question, but Is there going to be any data
loss if it turns out that the disk has died completely? I assume there
are backups of the repo that are geographically distributed.


From efotinis at y  Sat Aug  8 11:43:34 2009
From: efotinis at y (Elias Fotinis (eliasf))
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 18:43:34 +0300
Subject: www.python.org website is down?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <1249746242.50676@athprx03>

"Caezar" wrote:
> I cannot connect to the official Python website.
[snip]
> Are you experiencing the same problem?

Yes, it's been down for a while.

A useful site to check in such occasions is 
http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/. 



From foetsch at yahoo.com  Sat Aug  8 12:02:48 2009
From: foetsch at yahoo.com (=?UTF-8?B?TWljaGFlbCBGw7Z0c2No?=)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 18:02:48 +0200
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
In-Reply-To: <2qcrk6-doj.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
References: 	
	<2qcrk6-doj.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
Message-ID: <4A7DA1A8.4020603@yahoo.com>

Michael Str?der wrote:
 > >>> timeit.Timer("unicode('???????','utf-8')").timeit(10000000)
 > 17.23644495010376
 > >>> timeit.Timer("'???????'.decode('utf8')").timeit(10000000)
 > 72.087096929550171
 >
 > That is significant! So the winner is:
 >
 > unicode('???????','utf-8')

Which proves that benchmark results can be misleading sometimes. :-)

unicode() becomes *slower* when you try "UTF-8" in uppercase, or an 
entirely different codec, say "cp1252":

   >>> timeit.Timer("unicode('???????','UTF-8')").timeit(1000000)
   2.5777881145477295
   >>> timeit.Timer("'???????'.decode('UTF-8')").timeit(1000000)
   1.8430399894714355
   >>> timeit.Timer("unicode('???????','cp1252')").timeit(1000000)
   2.3622498512268066
   >>> timeit.Timer("'???????'.decode('cp1252')").timeit(1000000)
   1.7812771797180176

The reason seems to be that unicode() bypasses codecs.lookup() if the 
encoding is one of "utf-8", "latin-1", "mbcs", or "ascii". OTOH, 
str.decode() always calls codecs.lookup().

If speed is your primary concern, this will give you even better 
performance than unicode():

   decoder = codecs.lookup("utf-8").decode
   for i in xrange(1000000):
       decoder("???????")[0]


However, there's also a functional difference between unicode() and 
str.decode():

unicode() always raises an exception when you try to decode a unicode 
object. str.decode() will first try to encode a unicode object using the 
default encoding (usually "ascii"), which might or might not work.

Kind Regards,
M.F.



From garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk  Sat Aug  8 12:16:49 2009
From: garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk (garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 16:16:49 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
References: 
	
	<2qcrk6-doj.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	
	<028b1ce0$0$5185$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<556b00a3-bbbf-4076-a300-d20839a313c8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

Thorsten Kampe  wrote:
> * garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk (Fri, 7 Aug 2009 
> 17:41:38 +0000 (UTC))
>> Thorsten Kampe  wrote:
>> > If you increase the number of loops to one million or one billion or
>> > whatever even the slightest completely negligible difference will
>> > occur. The same thing will happen if you just increase the corpus of
>> > words to a million, trillion or whatever. The performance
>> > implications of that are exactly none.
>> 
>> I am not sure I understood that. Must be my English :-)
> 
> I guess you understand me very well and I understand you very well. If 

I did not. Really. But then it has been explained to me, so I think I do
now :-)

> the performance gain you want to prove doesn't show with 600,000 words, 
> you test again with 18,000,000 words and if that is not impressive 
> enough with 600,000,000 words. Great.
> 

Huh? 
18e6 words is what I am working with _now_. Most of the data is already
collected, there are going to be few more books, but that's all. And the
optimization I was talking about means going home from work one hour
later or earlier. Quite noticeable for me.
600e6 words is the main corpus. Data is already there and wait to be
processed in some time. Once we finih our current project. That is 
real life, no thought experiment.


> Or if a million repetitions of your "improved" code don't show the 
> expected "performance advantage" you run it a billion times. Even 
> greater. Keep on optimzing.

No, we do not have one billion words (yet - I assume you are talking
about American billion - if you are talking about European billion, we
would be masters of the world with a billion word corpus!).
However, that might change once we start collecting www data (which is a
separate project, to be started in a year or two)
Then, we'll do some more optimiation because the time differences will
be more noticeable. Easy as that.


-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------
| Radovan Garab?k http://kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk/~garabik/ |
| __..--^^^--..__    garabik @ kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk     |
 -----------------------------------------------------------
Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus.
Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!


From nipunreddevil at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 12:34:02 2009
From: nipunreddevil at gmail.com (nipun batra)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 12:34:02 -0400
Subject: Serial port access
Message-ID: <1e61b3260908080934g1ff65580k5836648db436b336@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
How can we access serial port using usb-serial converters,using python in
linux.I want to further use pyGTK for Gui development after accessing serial
data.
-------------- next part --------------
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From rogerpack2005 at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 12:34:05 2009
From: rogerpack2005 at gmail.com (rogerdpack)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 09:34:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: .h files?
Message-ID: <50c453d9-d455-4f08-959c-e225149495fb@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

Question.  Seems that with python distributions you have the option to
include either "external facing, public" *.h files, and make them
available, or include the whole kit and kaboodle [all *.h files].  Any
word on how python does this currently?  Just wondering as ruby runs
into the same question.
Thanks!
-roger


From jimxu at google.com  Sat Aug  8 12:47:14 2009
From: jimxu at google.com (Yongjian Xu)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 09:47:14 -0700
Subject: Why all the __double_underscored_vars__?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	 
	
Message-ID: <9c09a1210908080947t6d955beaxa495502b95ce9c1@mail.gmail.com>

These "special" methods are not meant to be used or known to beginners. They
aren't even meant to be called directly (in most cases). They are either
operator overloading methods or behavior customization methods. In my
opinion, in the meta programming realm. Should probably in advanced topic or
something.


On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 5:11 AM, kj  wrote:

> In  Chris Rebert <
> clp2 at rebertia.com> writes:
>
> >The double-underscores indicate that the Python interpreter itself
> >usually is the caller of the method, and as such some level of "magic"
> >may be associated with it. Other languages have you do the equivalent
> >of `def +():` or `def operator +()` to override an operator, the
> >keyword or symbol serving a similar warning that "here be magic".
>
> In this case, then I hope that some of these __items__ get demoted
> to a more mundane level, so that the notion of "magic" doesn't get
> trivialized by everyday idioms like:
>
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>    # etc
>
> There are a few in this category...  I figure that they are cases
> of "atavistic magic".
>
> I bring this up because I find it quite difficult to explain to my
> students (who are complete newcomers to programming) all the
> __underscored__ stuff that even rank noobs like them have to deal
> with.  (Trust me, to most of them your reply to my post would be
> as clear as mud.)  This suggests to me that there's something a
> bit unnatural about some of these __items__.
>
> Anyway, thanks for your post.  I see your point.
>
> kynn
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From n179911 at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 12:47:38 2009
From: n179911 at gmail.com (n179911)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 09:47:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need help in refactoring my python script
Message-ID: <10d392bc-0a41-4a12-a863-f5fcb296d40c@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

I have a python script which process a file line by line, if the line
matches a regex, it calls a function to handle it.

My question is is there a better write to refactor my script. The
script works, but as it is, i need to keep indent to the right of the
editor as I add more and more regex for my file.

Thank you for any idea.
Now my code end up like this:

for line in fi.readlines():

	result= reg1.match(line)

	if result:
		handleReg1(result)

	else:
		result = reg2.match(line)

		if result:
			handleReg2(result)
		else:
			result = reg3.match(line)

			if result:
				handleReg3(result)
			else:
				result = reg4.match(line)

				if result:
					handleReg4(result)
				else:
					result = reg5.match(line)

					if result:
                                               handleReg5(result)


From exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  Sat Aug  8 12:54:51 2009
From: exarkun at twistedmatrix.com (exarkun at twistedmatrix.com)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 16:54:51 -0000
Subject: Serial port access
In-Reply-To: <1e61b3260908080934g1ff65580k5836648db436b336@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1e61b3260908080934g1ff65580k5836648db436b336@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090808165451.7171.1497184396.divmod.xquotient.112@localhost.localdomain>

On 04:34 pm, nipunreddevil at gmail.com wrote:
>Hi,
>How can we access serial port using usb-serial converters,using python 
>in
>linux.I want to further use pyGTK for Gui development after accessing 
>serial
>data.

Twisted supports serial ports and has good Gtk integration.

http://twistedmatrix.com/projects/core/documentation/examples/ has some
examples of each of these things (take a look at mouse.py for the serial
port example).

Jean-Paul


From hatbabe at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 12:57:32 2009
From: hatbabe at gmail.com (the hatter)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 09:57:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: www.python.org website is down?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

> A.M. Kuchling said:
>
> """
> Bothwww.python.organd svn.python.org are down. ?They're hosted on
> the same machine, and it seems to have run into disk problems and
> hasn't rebooted even after power-cycling. ?Thomas Wouters will be
> visiting the machine physically tomorrow to try to diagnose the
> problem.
>
> (The machine also hosts planet.python.org and hg.python.org.)
> """

I was hoping to find an official mirror to grab source from when I
couldn't connect, but all i found were notices saying the python board
had decided they didn't want any ?  Seems a bit short-sighted if the
main site isn't some kind of fairly bulletproof, diverse/redundant/
intrinsically mirroring setup.


the hatter


From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Sat Aug  8 13:00:11 2009
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 19:00:11 +0200
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
References: 
	
	<2qcrk6-doj.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	
	<028b1ce0$0$5185$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<556b00a3-bbbf-4076-a300-d20839a313c8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<0006746a$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<41a0l6-2u4.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
Message-ID: 

* Michael Str?der (Sat, 08 Aug 2009 15:09:23 +0200)
> Thorsten Kampe wrote:
> > * Steven D'Aprano (08 Aug 2009 03:29:43 GMT)
> >> But why assume that the program takes 8 minutes to run? Perhaps it takes 
> >> 8 seconds to run, and 6 seconds of that is the decoding. Then halving 
> >> that reduces the total runtime from 8 seconds to 5, which is a noticeable 
> >> speed increase to the user, and significant if you then run that program 
> >> tens of thousands of times.
> > 
> > Exactly. That's why it doesn't make sense to benchmark decode()/unicode
> > () isolated - meaning out of the context of your actual program.
> 
> Thorsten, the point is you're too arrogant to admit that making such a general
> statement like you did without knowing *anything* about the context is simply
> false.

I made a general statement to a very general question ("These both 
expressions are equivalent but which is faster or should be used for any 
reason?"). If you have specific needs or reasons then you obviously 
failed to provide that specific "context" in your question.
 
> >> By all means, reminding people that pre-mature optimization is a 
> >> waste of time, but it's possible to take that attitude too far to Planet 
> >> Bizarro. At the point that you start insisting, and emphasising, that a 
> >> three second time difference is "*exactly*" zero,
> > 
> > Exactly. Because it was not generated in a real world use case but by 
> > running a simple loop one millions times. Why one million times? Because 
> > by running it "only" one hundred thousand times the difference would 
> > have seen even less relevant.
> 
> I was running it one million times to mitigate influences on the timing by
> other background processes which is a common technique when benchmarking.

Err, no. That is what "repeat" is for and it defaults to 3 ("This means 
that other processes running on the same computer may interfere with the 
timing. The best thing to do when accurate timing is necessary is to 
repeat the timing a few times and use the best time. [...] the default 
of 3 repetitions is probably enough in most cases.")

Three times - not one million times. You choose one million times (for 
the loop) when the thing you're testing is very fast (like decoding) and 
you don't want results in the 0.00000n range. Which is what you asked 
for and what you got.

> > I already gave good advice:
> > 1. don't benchmark
> > 2. don't benchmark until you have an actual performance issue
> > 3. if you benchmark then the whole application and not single commands
> 
> You don't know anything about what I'm doing and what my aim is. So your
> general rules don't apply.

See above. You asked a general question, you got a general answer.
 
> > It's really easy: Michael has working code. With that he can easily 
> > write two versions - one that uses decode() and one that uses unicode().
> 
> Yes, I have working code which was originally written before .decode() being
> added in Python 2.2. Therefore I wondered whether it would be nice for
> readability to replace unicode() by s.decode() since the software does not
> support Python versions prior 2.3 anymore anyway. But one aspect is also
> performance and hence my question and testing.

You haven't done any testing yet. Running decode/unicode one million 
times in a loop is not testing. If you don't believe me then read at 
least Martelli's Optimization chapter in Python in a nutshell (the 
chapter is available via Google books).

Thorsten


From __peter__ at web.de  Sat Aug  8 13:02:09 2009
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 19:02:09 +0200
Subject: Need help in refactoring my python script
References: <10d392bc-0a41-4a12-a863-f5fcb296d40c@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

n179911 wrote:

> I have a python script which process a file line by line, if the line
> matches a regex, it calls a function to handle it.
> 
> My question is is there a better write to refactor my script. The
> script works, but as it is, i need to keep indent to the right of the
> editor as I add more and more regex for my file.
> 
> Thank you for any idea.
> Now my code end up like this:
> 
> for line in fi.readlines():
> 
>         result= reg1.match(line)
> 
>         if result:
>                 handleReg1(result)
> 
>         else:
>                 result = reg2.match(line)
> 
>                 if result:
>                         handleReg2(result)
>                 else:
>                         result = reg3.match(line)
> 
>                         if result:
>                                 handleReg3(result)
>                         else:
>                                 result = reg4.match(line)
> 
>                                 if result:
>                                         handleReg4(result)
>                                 else:
>                                         result = reg5.match(line)
> 
>                                         if result:
>                                                handleReg5(result)
> 

If the handlers are indeed functions you can put them into a list:

match_handler_pairs = [
    (reg1.match, handleReg1),
    (reg2.match, handleReg2),
    ...
    ]

for line in fi: # look Ma, no readlines()
    for match, handler in match_handler_pairs:
        result = match(line)
        if result:
            handler(result)
            break
        
 Peter



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Aug  8 13:09:47 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 18:09:47 +0100
Subject: Need help in refactoring my python script
In-Reply-To: <10d392bc-0a41-4a12-a863-f5fcb296d40c@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
References: <10d392bc-0a41-4a12-a863-f5fcb296d40c@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A7DB15B.3090804@mrabarnett.plus.com>

n179911 wrote:
> I have a python script which process a file line by line, if the line
> matches a regex, it calls a function to handle it.
> 
> My question is is there a better write to refactor my script. The
> script works, but as it is, i need to keep indent to the right of the
> editor as I add more and more regex for my file.
> 
> Thank you for any idea.
> Now my code end up like this:
> 
> for line in fi.readlines():

This will read all the lines and then iterate through them. You can 
iterate through the file line by line directly with:

     for line in fi:
         ...

> 	result= reg1.match(line)
> 	if result:
> 		handleReg1(result)
> 	else:
> 		result = reg2.match(line)
> 		if result:
> 			handleReg2(result)
> 		else:
> 			result = reg3.match(line)
> 			if result:
> 				handleReg3(result)
> 			else:
> 				result = reg4.match(line)
> 				if result:
> 					handleReg4(result)
> 				else:
> 					result = reg5.match(line)
> 					if result:
>                                                handleReg5(result)

Build a list of the regexes and their functions:

actions = []
actions.append((reg1, handleReg1))
actions.append((reg2, handleReg2))
actions.append((reg3, handleReg3))
actions.append((reg4, handleReg4))
actions.append((reg5, handleReg5))

for line in fi:
     for reg, func in actions:
         result = reg.match(line)
         if result:
             func(result)
             break


From rcdailey at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 13:12:30 2009
From: rcdailey at gmail.com (Robert Dailey)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 10:12:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Subclass dynamically
Message-ID: <69df1b9a-fbc2-4a04-bc43-713eeee23e1a@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>

Hey,

I have a class that I want to have a different base class depending on
a parameter that I pass to its __init__method. For example
(pseudocode):

class MyDerived( self.base ):
  def __init__( self, base ):
    self.base = base


Something like that... and then I would do this:

foo = MyDerived( MyBase() )

Note I'm using Python 3.1 on Windows. Thanks in advance.


From gherron at islandtraining.com  Sat Aug  8 13:31:41 2009
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 10:31:41 -0700
Subject: Subclass dynamically
In-Reply-To: <69df1b9a-fbc2-4a04-bc43-713eeee23e1a@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
References: <69df1b9a-fbc2-4a04-bc43-713eeee23e1a@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A7DB67D.9070208@islandtraining.com>

Robert Dailey wrote:
> Hey,
>
> I have a class that I want to have a different base class depending on
> a parameter that I pass to its __init__method. For example
> (pseudocode):
>
> class MyDerived( self.base ):
>   def __init__( self, base ):
>     self.base = base
>
>
> Something like that... and then I would do this:
>
> foo = MyDerived( MyBase() )
>
> Note I'm using Python 3.1 on Windows. Thanks in advance.
>   
Python makes it possible to change base classes, but that doesn't mean 
it ever a good idea.

Moreover, the assignment is at the class level, not the instance level:

    MyDerived.__bases__ = (base,) #A tuple of bases

would change the base class for the class MyDerived, and all instances 
past, present, or future.

Better (but still not good) might be a factory function that derives a 
class with the desired base class:

def Derive(base):
    class Derived(base):
        pass
    return Derived

DerivedClass = Derive(MyBase)
foo = DerivedClass(...)

I believe that will produce what you were looking for.

Gary Herron



From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Sat Aug  8 13:43:30 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 19:43:30 +0200
Subject: Bug or feature: double strings as one
In-Reply-To: <000674d6$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 
	
	
	<000674d6$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

08-08-2009 Steven D'Aprano  wrote:

> On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 17:35:28 +0000, kj wrote:
>
>> I fail to see why
>>
>> x = ("first part of a very long string "
>>      "second part of a very long string")
>
> That's done by the compiler at compile time and is fast.

Moreover, it's also more readable, when you use str calling its
methods or using formatting on it.

I use it very often, e.g.:

         afunction('quite long string %s quite long string '
                   'quite long string quite long string %s '
                   'quite %s long string quite long string'
                   % (variable1, variable2, variable3))

It seems nicer to me than:

         afunction(('quite long string %s quite long string '
                    + 'quite long string quite long string %s '
                    + 'quite %s long string quite long string')
                   % (variable1, variable2, variable3))

(Note that multiline-'''-strings are usless in such cases).

*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Aug  8 14:14:40 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 19:14:40 +0100
Subject: convert non-delimited to delimited
In-Reply-To: <768586.94351.qm@web65602.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <768586.94351.qm@web65602.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4A7DC090.8020109@mrabarnett.plus.com>

John wrote:
> I am not really a CS person, but I have a task to import a non-delimited 
> text to an access database.  After some research, I *think* the best way 
> to do this is by first converting the non-delimited text to delimited 
> text, and then import it to the database.  Is this the best way to 
> approach this?  Or is there easier way?
>  
[snip]
> 
> I am really stump on where to go from here.  Any help would be 
> appreciated it.  I have also include a text file which gives several 
> more examples.
> 
You'll need to see what types of file the database can import. A brief
search of the web says that it can import tab-separated text files (a
line is a record and the fields are separated by tab characters).

Be sure to test it first before trying it on the real database! :-)


From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 14:15:20 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 11:15:20 -0700
Subject: [Diversity] Language note
In-Reply-To: <12470af00908080943g1e559273sdd5e4fc92336a5eb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090807143826.GA19246@panix.com>
	<7528bcdd0908070753t7533d6ddw2321a462ed7036e3@mail.gmail.com>
	
	
	<12470af00908080755y717036b2j3d2ac7bf98838fc@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<12470af00908080943g1e559273sdd5e4fc92336a5eb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 


> Most indian languages have a different
> grammer (compared to English). So i'm curious to see how that would be
> implemented in a parser

+1 -- I'd be interested in seeing this too, although we have drifted  
OT here and perhaps this conversation would be better had on Python- 
list. The closest I've seen to a language being able to support  
different grammatical structures is Perligata (http:// 
www.csse.monash.edu.au/~damian/papers/HTML/Perligata.html), does  
Python have anything similar?

-------------
Rami Chowdhury
"Never assume malice when stupidity will suffice." -- Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)




On Aug 8, 2009, at 09:43 , vid wrote:

> On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 21:19, Rami  
> Chowdhury wrote:
>> I suppose the Chinese Python project that Brianna linked to
>> (http://www.chinesepython.org/cgi_bin/cgb.cgi/english/ 
>> english.html) must
>> take Unicode input...
>
> That was interesting but i dont know chinese and IIUC my requirement
> is slightly different -- Most indian languages have a different
> grammer (compared to English). So i'm curious to see how that would be
> implemented in a parser, especially because it brings in a lot more
> ambiguity.
>
> -- 
> thanks
> || vid || http://www.svaksha.com ||
> _______________________________________________
> Diversity mailing list
> Diversity at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity



From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Aug  8 14:17:37 2009
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 20:17:37 +0200
Subject: www.python.org website is down?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <4A7DC141.9070207@v.loewis.de>

> This is probably a stupid question, but Is there going to be any data
> loss if it turns out that the disk has died completely? I assume there
> are backups of the repo that are geographically distributed.

Yes, we have backups, and are restoring them at the moment. However,
we still haven't given up on the original disks: they are (probably)
fine; it's just the RAID controller that has failed (and we can't buy a
replacement before Monday).

Regards,
Martin


From kpouya at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 14:33:57 2009
From: kpouya at gmail.com (Pouya Khankhanian)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 11:33:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: www.python.org website is down?
References: 
	
	
	<4A7DC141.9070207@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <54581bf3-c9a1-4bbf-945c-28d436ffda2a@k13g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 8, 11:17?am, "Martin v. L?wis"  wrote:
> > This is probably a stupid question, but Is there going to be any data
> > loss if it turns out that the disk has died completely? I assume there
> > are backups of the repo that are geographically distributed.
>
> Yes, we have backups, and are restoring them at the moment. However,
> we still haven't given up on the original disks: they are (probably)
> fine; it's just the RAID controller that has failed (and we can't buy a
> replacement before Monday).
>
> Regards,
> Martin

Is there a mirror site to download the latest python installer? Every
mirror I have found on the web redirects me to python.org.
Best
Peter


From sharath20284 at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 14:49:13 2009
From: sharath20284 at gmail.com (Sharath)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 11:49:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: www.python.org website is down?
References: 
	
	
	<4A7DC141.9070207@v.loewis.de>
	<54581bf3-c9a1-4bbf-945c-28d436ffda2a@k13g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4cea29ee-cc89-4494-aef9-0f46f8dd11b9@2g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 8, 11:33?am, Pouya Khankhanian  wrote:
> On Aug 8, 11:17?am, "Martin v. L?wis"  wrote:
>
> > > This is probably a stupid question, but Is there going to be any data
> > > loss if it turns out that the disk has died completely? I assume there
> > > are backups of the repo that are geographically distributed.
>
> > Yes, we have backups, and are restoring them at the moment. However,
> > we still haven't given up on the original disks: they are (probably)
> > fine; it's just the RAID controller that has failed (and we can't buy a
> > replacement before Monday).
>
> > Regards,
> > Martin
>
> Is there a mirror site to download the latest python installer? Every
> mirror I have found on the web redirects me to python.org.
> Best
> Peter


Python FTP mirror sites also have the same problem. They are not being
mirrored for some require a password. Is there any other way to get a
copy?

Sharath Venkatesha


From no.email at please.post  Sat Aug  8 14:49:28 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 18:49:28 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Why all the __double_underscored_vars__?
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

In  David Cournapeau  writes:

>On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 9:11 PM, kj wrote:
>> In  Chris Rebert p2 at rebertia.com> writes:
>>
>>>The double-underscores indicate that the Python interpreter itself
>>>usually is the caller of the method, and as such some level of "magic"
>>>may be associated with it. Other languages have you do the equivalent
>>>of `def +():` or `def operator +()` to override an operator, the
>>>keyword or symbol serving a similar warning that "here be magic".
>>
>> In this case, then I hope that some of these __items__ get demoted
>> to a more mundane level, so that the notion of "magic" doesn't get
>> trivialized by everyday idioms like:
>>
>> if __name__ =3D=3D '__main__':
>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0# etc
>>
>> There are a few in this category... =C2=A0I figure that they are cases
>> of "atavistic magic".
>>
>> I bring this up because I find it quite difficult to explain to my
>> students (who are complete newcomers to programming) all the
>> __underscored__ stuff that even rank noobs like them have to deal
>> with. =C2=A0(Trust me, to most of them your reply to my post would be
>> as clear as mud.)

>Maybe your students do not need to know about it, at least at the
>beginning ? I heavily use python, and do not use the underscore
>methods so much most of the time, except for __init__,

Believe me, it's not me who's bringing this stuff up: *they*
specifically ask.  That's precisely my point: it is *they* who
somehow feel they can't avoid finding out about this stuff; they
must run into such __arcana__ often enough to cause them to wonder.
If at least some rank beginners (i.e. some of my students) feel
this way, I suggest that some of this alleged __arcana__ should be
demoted to a more mundane everyday status, without the scare-underscores.
E.g. maybe there should be a built-in is_main(), or some such, so
that beginners don't have to venture into the dark underworld of
__name__ and "__main__".

kynn


From kyrie at uh.cu  Sat Aug  8 15:13:04 2009
From: kyrie at uh.cu (Luis Alberto Zarrabeitia Gomez)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 15:13:04 -0400
Subject: Subclass dynamically
In-Reply-To: <69df1b9a-fbc2-4a04-bc43-713eeee23e1a@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
References: <69df1b9a-fbc2-4a04-bc43-713eeee23e1a@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1249758784.4a7dce40af627@mail.uh.cu>


Quoting Robert Dailey :

> Hey,
> 
> I have a class that I want to have a different base class depending on
> a parameter that I pass to its __init__method. For example
> (pseudocode):

1- Are you sure that you want that behavior? Given that in python, a class is
just a particular case of invocable object, you could just write a function
instead, and the code may be more robust.

2- If you are /sure/ that is the behavior you want, take a look at the __new__
method. The __new__ can decide which instance to return (you could even define a
new class inside of it, instantiate it, and return the instance).

3- You may want to take a look at metaclasses. But without more details about
why you want it, I can't give you more precise answers.

Regards,

-- 
Luis Zarrabeitia
Facultad de Matem?tica y Computaci?n, UH
http://profesores.matcom.uh.cu/~kyrie



-- 
Participe en Universidad 2010, del 8 al 12 de febrero de 2010
La Habana, Cuba 
http://www.universidad2010.cu



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Aug  8 15:27:49 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 20:27:49 +0100
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 			<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>		<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>		<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro	ups.com>
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>			<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Kee Nethery wrote:
> As someone trying to learn the language I want to say that the tone on 
> this list towards people who are trying to learn Python  feels like it 
> has become anti-newbies.
> 
[snip]
> 
> Kee Nethery
My gut feeling (which could of course be wrong) is that many hard core 
Pythonistas are cheesed off with newbies who refuse to help themselves.
No evidence that that they've tried any Python tutorial.  No evidence 
that that they've searched anywhere in an attempt to resolve the problem 
before posting.  "This code doesn't work, please fix it".  Response 
often "Please post your actual code, or a snippet that gives the same 
exception, and give the complete exception details".

Show that you have made an attempt to help yourself, and the response 
here is almost certainly 100% helpful.

Further, I have seen many requests here which are nothing really to do 
with Python, say a query about which algorithm to use.  Response "Not 
really a Python question, but try ...".  Put the same question on (say) 
the C ng and you'd be told in no uncertain terms to Foxtrot Oscar.

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From http  Sat Aug  8 15:37:01 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 08 Aug 2009 12:37:01 -0700
Subject: unique-ifying a list
References: 
	
Message-ID: <7x8whum71e.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Dennis Lee Bieber  writes:
> 	Why bother with	seen	?

The version with seen runs in linear time because of the O(1) set
lookup.  Your version runs in quadratic time.


From contact at xavierho.com  Sat Aug  8 16:35:42 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 06:35:42 +1000
Subject: www.python.org website is down?
In-Reply-To: <4cea29ee-cc89-4494-aef9-0f46f8dd11b9@2g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	
	<4A7DC141.9070207@v.loewis.de>
	<54581bf3-c9a1-4bbf-945c-28d436ffda2a@k13g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<4cea29ee-cc89-4494-aef9-0f46f8dd11b9@2g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908081335r23a03895i16bf3b5551a7823a@mail.gmail.com>

Well, it's back up now.

At least for me. ;)

Ching-Yun "Xavier" Ho, Technical Artist

Contact Information
Mobile: (+61) 04 3335 4748
Skype ID: SpaXe85
Email: contact at xavierho.com
Website: http://xavierho.com/


On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 4:49 AM, Sharath  wrote:

> On Aug 8, 11:33 am, Pouya Khankhanian  wrote:
> > On Aug 8, 11:17 am, "Martin v. L?wis"  wrote:
> >
> > > > This is probably a stupid question, but Is there going to be any data
> > > > loss if it turns out that the disk has died completely? I assume
> there
> > > > are backups of the repo that are geographically distributed.
> >
> > > Yes, we have backups, and are restoring them at the moment. However,
> > > we still haven't given up on the original disks: they are (probably)
> > > fine; it's just the RAID controller that has failed (and we can't buy a
> > > replacement before Monday).
> >
> > > Regards,
> > > Martin
> >
> > Is there a mirror site to download the latest python installer? Every
> > mirror I have found on the web redirects me to python.org.
> > Best
> > Peter
>
>
> Python FTP mirror sites also have the same problem. They are not being
> mirrored for some require a password. Is there any other way to get a
> copy?
>
> Sharath Venkatesha
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Aug  8 16:37:21 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 8 Aug 2009 13:37:21 -0700
Subject: python.org downtime (was Re: is it possible to overload operator "^"?)
References: <89523a6b-c609-4b3f-9f01-4aa219dfd916@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<7e4tg5F2eirarU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
dmitrey   wrote:
>
>To Diez:
>yes, but I haven't paid attention to xor. BTW the url is currently
>unavailable (Network Timeout. The server at docs.python.org is taking
>too long to respond.).

www.python.org is currently having hardware problems
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"...string iteration isn't about treating strings as sequences of strings, 
it's about treating strings as sequences of characters.  The fact that
characters are also strings is the reason we have problems, but characters 
are strings for other good reasons."  --Aahz


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sat Aug  8 16:41:42 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 16:41:42 -0400
Subject: Serial port access
In-Reply-To: <1e61b3260908080934g1ff65580k5836648db436b336@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1e61b3260908080934g1ff65580k5836648db436b336@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908081341o63636f36i99b5971fdb0bbb57@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 12:34 PM, nipun batra wrote:
> Hi,
> How can we access serial port using usb-serial converters,using python in
> linux.

PySerial might also be an option:
http://pyserial.sourceforge.net/index.html

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From contact at xavierho.com  Sat Aug  8 16:44:09 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 06:44:09 +1000
Subject: python.org downtime (was Re: is it possible to overload operator 
	"^"?)
In-Reply-To: 
References: <89523a6b-c609-4b3f-9f01-4aa219dfd916@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<7e4tg5F2eirarU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908081344n10fb56eo1fe108cbb824901f@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 6:37 AM, Aahz  wrote:

> www.python.org is currently having hardware problems
>

So what I'm seeing is an illusion? It works as of now.

- Xavier
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From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Sat Aug  8 17:50:32 2009
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 14:50:32 -0700
Subject: Why all the __double_underscored_vars__?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

kj wrote:
>>> ... I find it quite difficult to explain to my
>>> students (who are complete newcomers to programming) all the
>>> __underscored__ stuff that even rank noobs like them have to deal
>>> with. =C2=A0(Trust me, to most of them your reply to my post would be
>>> as clear as mud.)
> Believe me, it's not me who's bringing this stuff up: *they*
> specifically ask.  That's precisely my point: it is *they* who
> somehow feel they can't avoid finding out about this stuff; they
> must run into such __arcana__ often enough to cause them to wonder.
> If at least some rank beginners (i.e. some of my students) feel
> this way, I suggest that some of this alleged __arcana__ should be
> demoted to a more mundane everyday status, without the scare-underscores.
> E.g. maybe there should be a built-in is_main(), or some such, so
> that beginners don't have to venture into the dark underworld of
> __name__ and "__main__".

Do you know about Kirby Urner's technique of calling such symbols,
"ribs," -- the access to the "stuff" Python is built from?  One nice
thing about Python is that you can experiment with what these
"__ribs__" do without having to learn yet another language.

It seems nice to me that you can use a rule that says, "stick to
normal names and you don't have to worry about mucking with the
way Python itself works, but if you are curious, looks for those
things and fiddle with them."

--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From kpouya at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 17:50:34 2009
From: kpouya at gmail.com (Pouya Khankhanian)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 14:50:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: www.python.org website is down?
References: 
	
	
	<4A7DC141.9070207@v.loewis.de>
	<54581bf3-c9a1-4bbf-945c-28d436ffda2a@k13g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<4cea29ee-cc89-4494-aef9-0f46f8dd11b9@2g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <80c46b94-9df2-43f5-9182-37c2413db783@b25g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 8, 11:49?am, Sharath  wrote:
> On Aug 8, 11:33?am, Pouya Khankhanian  wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Aug 8, 11:17?am, "Martin v. L?wis"  wrote:
>
> > > > This is probably a stupid question, but Is there going to be any data
> > > > loss if it turns out that the disk has died completely? I assume there
> > > > are backups of the repo that are geographically distributed.
>
> > > Yes, we have backups, and are restoring them at the moment. However,
> > > we still haven't given up on the original disks: they are (probably)
> > > fine; it's just the RAID controller that has failed (and we can't buy a
> > > replacement before Monday).
>
> > > Regards,
> > > Martin
>
> > Is there a mirror site to download the latest python installer? Every
> > mirror I have found on the web redirects me to python.org.
> > Best
> > Peter
>
> Python FTP mirror sites also have the same problem. They are not being
> mirrored for some require a password. Is there any other way to get a
> copy?
>
> Sharath Venkatesha

Website is back up! Thanks for all the hard work


From efotinis at y  Sat Aug  8 18:05:01 2009
From: efotinis at y (Elias Fotinis (eliasf))
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 01:05:01 +0300
Subject: Pywin32 @ windows 7
In-Reply-To: 
References: <004a01ca1733$a9768c10$4605a8c0@btsc1><1249724885.215365@athprx03>
	
Message-ID: <1249769137.332546@athprx03>

"Dennis Lee Bieber" wrote:
> Has it been built under a 64-bit OS though? (I'll confess I've not
> looked -- I always install the ActiveState binary for my WinXP (32bit)
> system, and that library is part of the install)

Yes, both Python x64 and pywin32 x64 are native 64-bit applications -- they 
can't even be installed on a 32-bit system. 



From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 18:39:16 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 15:39:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	
	
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	 
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro ups.com> 
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	 
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <47b58ea9-d199-41f7-8d7b-8de382f85396@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 6, 11:36?am, Kee Nethery  wrote:
> As someone trying to learn the language I want to say that the tone on ?
> this list towards people who are trying to learn Python ?feels like it ?
> has become anti-newbies.

I don't think this NG is anti-newbie so much as anti-whining-loser.

Unfortunately, some newbies might see this and perceive it to be abuse
of newbies in general.  It is not so.  People who have chips on their
shoulder, who make loaded, emotionally-provocative comments, who make
no effort on their own, who expect us to do their homework and/or job
for them, etc., there are the people who going to get an unfavorable
tone.

Newbies who ask respectable questions without having an attitude will
generally get respectable answers.


> For example, the guy who was looking for Python sample code for the ?
> Google Map API, calling him a troll was harsh.

No it wasn't, that guy is Xah Lee, a person who's been trolling Usenet
for a long time.  He is best ignored, but I don't blame someone for
snapping at him.


Carl Banks


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 19:10:20 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 16:10:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Subclass dynamically
References: <69df1b9a-fbc2-4a04-bc43-713eeee23e1a@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <478f321d-3d88-4074-af17-1bc3d509e6b3@x25g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 8, 12:13?pm, Luis Alberto Zarrabeitia Gomez 
wrote:
> Quoting Robert Dailey :
>
> > Hey,
>
> > I have a class that I want to have a different base class depending on
> > a parameter that I pass to its __init__method. For example
> > (pseudocode):
>
> 1- Are you sure that you want that behavior? Given that in python, a class is
> just a particular case of invocable object, you could just write a function
> instead, and the code may be more robust.
>
> 2- If you are /sure/ that is the behavior you want, take a look at the __new__
> method. The __new__ can decide which instance to return (you could even define a
> new class inside of it, instantiate it, and return the instance).
>
> 3- You may want to take a look at metaclasses. But without more details about
> why you want it, I can't give you more precise answers.

One could accomplish this using methods 2 and 3, but it would go
against so many common expectations I have to recommend never doing
it.  If you call a type, it should return an object of that type (or,
at worst, a subtype or "null" type) or raise an exception.

The factory function is the way to do this.

Another alternative is to forego inheritance and simply call method on
the passed "base" object.  Given that the OP posted code that almost
literally works in that case, this might be the best way to go for his
case.

So instead of this hypothetical code:

class MyDerived(self.base):
    def __init__(self,base)
        self.base = base
    # MyDerived inherits a_method() from self.base

He could go with this real code:

class MyClass(object):
    def __init__(self,base)
        self.base = base
    def a_method(self):
        return self.base.a_method()

where, instead of inheriting self.base's a_method, it simply defines
a_method() to call self.base.a_method() directly.


Carl Banks


From michael at stroeder.com  Sat Aug  8 19:42:14 2009
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?UTF-8?B?TWljaGFlbCBTdHLDtmRlcg==?=)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 01:42:14 +0200
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
In-Reply-To: 
References: 		<2qcrk6-doj.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Michael F?tsch wrote:
> If speed is your primary concern, this will give you even better
> performance than unicode():
> 
>   decoder = codecs.lookup("utf-8").decode
>   for i in xrange(1000000):
>       decoder("???????")[0]

Hmm, that could be interesting. I will give it a try.

> However, there's also a functional difference between unicode() and
> str.decode():
> 
> unicode() always raises an exception when you try to decode a unicode
> object. str.decode() will first try to encode a unicode object using the
> default encoding (usually "ascii"), which might or might not work.

Thanks for pointing that out. So in my case I'd consider that also a plus for
using unicode().

Ciao, Michael.


From BrianVanderburg2 at aim.com  Sat Aug  8 21:08:38 2009
From: BrianVanderburg2 at aim.com (Brian Allen Vanderburg II)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 21:08:38 -0400
Subject: How to do relpath implementation on 2.5
Message-ID: <4A7E2196.2080403@aim.com>

I've coded my own 'relpath' implementation for 2.5 (shown below) and I 
want to make sure it follows as closely as it should to 2.6 and later.  
I've got a question regarding that.  When attempting to convert to a 
relative path and it is not possible for some reason (different drive or 
UNC share), should that be an error or should it return the absolute 
path of the target?  I'm using Debian so I don't have 2.6 available 
right now for testing.

This is what I've got so far

import os
from os import path


def relpath(target, origin=os.curdir):
    """
    Determine relative path of target to origin or
    """

    target = path.normcase(path.abspath(path.normpath(target)))
    origin = path.normcase(path.abspath(path.normpath(origin)))

    # Same?
    if target == origin:
        return '.'

    original_target = target

    # Check drive (for Windows)
    (tdrive, target) = path.splitdrive(target)
    (odrive, origin) = path.splitdrive(origin)
    if tdrive != odrive:
        return original_target

    # Check UNC path (for Windows)
    # If they are on different shares, we want an absolute path
    if not tdrive and not odrive and hasattr(path, 'splitunc'):
        (tunc, target) = path.splitunc(target)
        (ounc, origin) = path.splitunc(origin)
        if tunc != ounc:
            return original_target

    # Split into lists
    target_list = target.split(os.sep)
    origin_list = origin.split(os.sep)

    # Remove beginning empty parts
    # Helps to handle when one item may be in the root
    while target_list and not target_list[0]:
        del target_list[0]
    while origin_list and not origin_list[0]:
        del origin_list[0]

    # Remove common items
    while origin_list and target_list:
        if origin_list[0] == target_list[0]:
            del origin_list[0]
            del target_list[0]
        else:
            break

    # Combine and return the result
    relative_list = [os.pardir] * len(origin_list) + target_list
    if not relative_list:
        return os.curdir
    return os.sep.join(relative_list)


Currently I just return the target if it can not be made relative.

Brian A. Vanderburg II


From nipunreddevil at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 21:20:12 2009
From: nipunreddevil at gmail.com (nipun batra)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 06:50:12 +0530
Subject: Serial port access
In-Reply-To: <50697b2c0908081341o63636f36i99b5971fdb0bbb57@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1e61b3260908080934g1ff65580k5836648db436b336@mail.gmail.com>
	<50697b2c0908081341o63636f36i99b5971fdb0bbb57@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1e61b3260908081820r702a4e24s6599fa724c97344a@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 2:11 AM, Chris Rebert  wrote:

> On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 12:34 PM, nipun batra
> wrote:
> > Hi,
> > How can we access serial port using usb-serial converters,using python in
> > linux.
>
> PySerial might also be an option:
> http://pyserial.sourceforge.net/index.html
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --
> http://blog.rebertia.com
>


pySerial mentions about serial ports but not about usb-serial.Can i do
something like convert my usb-serial to act as serial port and then use
pySerial
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From thudfoo at opensuse.us  Sat Aug  8 21:41:23 2009
From: thudfoo at opensuse.us (member thudfoo)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 18:41:23 -0700
Subject: Is "feedparser" deprecated?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4a7c7a8d$0$1661$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	
Message-ID: <3d881a310908081841x17235cf1rd38418b119dd7b4d@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 6:10 PM, Gabriel Genellina wrote:

> En Fri, 07 Aug 2009 16:07:48 -0300, John Nagle 
> escribi?:
>
>    Feedparser requires SGMLlib, which has been removed from Python 3.0.
>> Feedparser hasn't been updated since 2007. Does this mean Feedparser
>> is dead?
>>
>
> Since we have generic and easy of use XML parsers like ElementTree and
> lxml,  specialized rss parsers like feedparser are not so much required.
> I've used ElementTree when I had to parse an rss feed in the past (not so
> many times).
>
> --
> Gabriel Genellina
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

feedparser is much more than than an just  another xml
 parser.

Read its documetion.
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From zac256 at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 21:52:17 2009
From: zac256 at gmail.com (Zac Burns)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 18:52:17 -0700
Subject: Why all the __double_underscored_vars__?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: <333edbe80908081852i4fd753er5656216cbb1b06e2@mail.gmail.com>

As I understand it, the double underscores is to create a namespace
"reserved for python's internal use". That way python can add more
variables and methods in the future and as long as people respect the
namespace their code will not break with future revisions.

--
Zachary Burns
(407)590-4814
Aim - Zac256FL
Production Engineer (Digital Overlord)
Zindagi Games


From dstanek at dstanek.com  Sat Aug  8 23:15:36 2009
From: dstanek at dstanek.com (David Stanek)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 23:15:36 -0400
Subject: Is "feedparser" deprecated?
In-Reply-To: <4a7c7a8d$0$1661$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
References: <4a7c7a8d$0$1661$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: 

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 3:07 PM, John Nagle wrote:
> ?Feedparser requires SGMLlib, which has been removed from Python 3.0.
> Feedparser hasn't been updated since 2007. Does this mean Feedparser
> is dead?
>

The release is from 2007, but there are several recent commits.

http://code.google.com/p/feedparser/source/list


-- 
David
blog: http://www.traceback.org
twitter: http://twitter.com/dstanek


From michaelmossey at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 00:43:32 2009
From: michaelmossey at gmail.com (Michael Mossey)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 21:43:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: help with threads
References: <5a744bd6-6b9a-4f46-97c1-bb7fd65b8f4c@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<949b87d5-8cff-444a-b6ba-23d49610d130@p36g2000vbn.googlegroups.com> 
	 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 7, 5:03?pm, Piet van Oostrum  wrote:
> >>>>> Michael Mossey  (MM) wrote:
> >MM> Ah yes, that explains it. Some of these long computations are done in
> >MM> pure C, so I'm sure the GIL is not being released.
>
> Is that C code under your own control? Or at least the glue from Python
> to C? In that case, and if the C code is not manipulating Python objects
> or something in the Python interpreter, it could be changed to release
> the GIL during the computation. That's also how Numpy does it, IIRC.
> --
> Piet van Oostrum 
> URL:http://pietvanoostrum.com[PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
> Private email: p... at vanoostrum.org

I don't have any control over this code, and it's easier to solve my
problem in other ways. I just put a sleep() call between calls to the
C library, and that gives the network thread enough responsiveness for
my particular task. I am grateful, anyway, to understand why this kind
of thing happens.


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Aug  9 00:49:08 2009
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 06:49:08 +0200
Subject: .h files?
In-Reply-To: <50c453d9-d455-4f08-959c-e225149495fb@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
References: <50c453d9-d455-4f08-959c-e225149495fb@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a7e5544$0$2550$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

> Question.  Seems that with python distributions you have the option to
> include either "external facing, public" *.h files, and make them
> available, or include the whole kit and kaboodle [all *.h files].

What python distributions are you referring to? The ones I know don't
make this distinction; there is only a single set of header files that
you can choose to install.

Regards,
Martin


From nipunreddevil at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 00:51:20 2009
From: nipunreddevil at gmail.com (nipun batra)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 10:21:20 +0530
Subject: Serial port access
In-Reply-To: <1e61b3260908081820r702a4e24s6599fa724c97344a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1e61b3260908080934g1ff65580k5836648db436b336@mail.gmail.com>
	<50697b2c0908081341o63636f36i99b5971fdb0bbb57@mail.gmail.com>
	<1e61b3260908081820r702a4e24s6599fa724c97344a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1e61b3260908082151l1fed2afena6db9bc239da5c6a@mail.gmail.com>

Ok i managed to comunicate serially using pySerial,but only using Idle. but
when i use it within Geany or Gedit,i get following errors
Traceback most recent call last
File "serial.py",line 3,in module
import serial
File"/home/nipun/serial.py",line 5,in module
ser=serial.Serial()
Attribute error:module object has no attribute Serial

how can i make it work?
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From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 01:16:53 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 22:16:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com> 
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro ups.com> 
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	 
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<7xk51fgazf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
	
	
	
	<0006817d$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> 
	<7xd476rj1s.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: 

Paul Rubin  wrote:
> Stephen, Alex, etc.: have you actually used the php.net doc system?
> Don't knock it til you've tried it. ?IMO it is superior to Python's
> system. ?

I've tried it, a lot. Is it okay for me to keep criticising it now, or
would you like some time to find some other allusion to ignorance with
which to wave away my opinion?


From kwatch at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 01:37:03 2009
From: kwatch at gmail.com (kwatch)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 22:37:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [ANN] pyKook 0.0.3 - a smart build tool similar to Make, Rake, or Ant
Message-ID: <06fbfe63-2ee2-4669-91cc-2df12ea4bd86@i4g2000prm.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I have released pyKook 0.0.3.
http://pypi.python.org/pypi/Kook/0.0.3
http://www.kuwata-lab.com/kook/
http://www.kuwata-lab.com/kook/pykook-users-guide.html

In this release, recipe syntax is changed (see below).


Overview
========

pyKook is a smart build tool similar to Make, Rake, Ant, or Cook.
pyKook regards software project as cooking.
Terms used in pyKook are cooking terms.
For example:

    cookbook    -  Makefile
    product     -  target file
    ingredient  -  source file
    recipe      -  how to create target from source
    spices      -  command-line options for recipe


Cookbook (= Makefile) is written in pure Python.
You can write any statements or expressions in cookbook.

NOTICE: pyKook is under alpha release. Spec and features may be
changed
in the future without previous announcement.


Example
=======

Example of cookbook (Kookbook.py):

    --------------------------------------------------
    ##
    ## properties
    ##
    cc     = prop('cc',     'gcc')
    cflags = prop('cflags', '-g -Wall')


    ##
    ## recipes
    ##
    @recipe
    @ingreds("hello")
    def all(c):        # or task_all(c)
        pass

    @recipe
    @product("hello")
    @ingreds("hello.o")
    def file_command(c):
        """generates hello command"""
        system(c%"$(cc) $(cflags) -o $(product) $(ingred)")

    @recipe
    @product("*.o")
    @ingreds("$(1).c", if_exists("$(1).h"))
    def file_ext_o(c):
        """compile '*.c' and '*.h'"""
        system(c%"$(cc) $(cflags) -c $(1).c")

    @recipe
    def clean(c):
        rm_f("*.o")
    --------------------------------------------------


Exampe of result:

    --------------------------------------------------
    bash> ls
    Kookbook.py   hello.c    hello.h

    bash> pykook -l
    Properties:
      cc                  : 'gcc'
      cflags              : '-g -Wall'

    Task recipes:
      all                 : cook all products
      clean               : remove by-products

    File recipes:
      hello               : generates hello command
      *.o                 : compile '*.c' and '*.h'

    (Tips: you can set 'kook_default_product' variable in your
kookbook.)

    bash> pykook all           # or, pykook --cc=gcc4 all
    ### *** hello.o (func=file_ext_o)
    $ gcc -g -Wall -c hello.c
    ### ** hello (func=file_command)
    $ gcc -g -Wall -o hello hello.o
    ### * all (func=task_all)
    --------------------------------------------------


See users-guide for more details.
http://www.kuwata-lab.com/kook/pykook-users-guide.html


Enhancements, Changes, Bug fixes sice 0.0.2
===========================================


Changes
-------

  - IMPORTANT!!
    New '@recipe' decorator is required for each recipe function.
    If function is decorated by '@recipe', 'task_' prefix is not
necessary.

    ex:
      ## previous version
  	  def task_clean(c):    # 'task_' prefix is required
  	    rm_rf("*.o")

      ## since this release
  	  @release              # @release decorator is required
  	  def clean(c):         # 'task_' prefix is not necessary
  	    rm_rf("*.o")

    See http://www.kuwata-lab.com/kook/pykook-users-guide.html#cookbook-recipekind
  	for details.

  - Library codes are much refactored.


Enhancements
------------

  - IMPORTANT!!
    New feature to support command-line script framework.
    You can convert Kookbook.py into command-line script.
	See http://www.kuwata-lab.com/kook/pykook-users-guide.html#topic-framework
	for details.

  - New command-line option '-n' (no exec) supported.
    If you specify '-n', commands such as 'cp()' or 'rm()' are not
executed.
	In other words, '-n' means 'dry-run'.

  - Add a lot of test scripts.


Bug fixes
---------

  - A bug related timestamp detection is now fixed.
    There was a case that product file was not updated even when
    ingredient files were updated.

  - A bug about recipe tree is fixed. There was a case that the same
recipe
    can be invoke more than once when an intermediate recipe was
required
    from several recipes.



Have fun!

--
regards,
makoto kuwata


From rylesny at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 03:49:42 2009
From: rylesny at gmail.com (ryles)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 00:49:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to do relpath implementation on 2.5
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 8, 9:08?pm, Brian Allen Vanderburg II
 wrote:
> I've coded my own 'relpath' implementation for 2.5 (shown below) and I
> want to make sure it follows as closely as it should to 2.6 and later. ?
> I've got a question regarding that. ?When attempting to convert to a
> relative path and it is not possible for some reason (different drive or
> UNC share), should that be an error or should it return the absolute
> path of the target? ?I'm using Debian so I don't have 2.6 available
> right now for testing.

Usually Python source code is easily browsed at:

http://svn.python.org/view/

Unfortunately the server is down right now.

The implementation in 2.6 raises a ValueError exception. Here is the
function from ntpath.py:

def relpath(path, start=curdir):
    """Return a relative version of a path"""

    if not path:
        raise ValueError("no path specified")
    start_list = abspath(start).split(sep)
    path_list = abspath(path).split(sep)
    if start_list[0].lower() != path_list[0].lower():
        unc_path, rest = splitunc(path)
        unc_start, rest = splitunc(start)
        if bool(unc_path) ^ bool(unc_start):
            raise ValueError("Cannot mix UNC and non-UNC paths (%s and
%s)"
                                                                %
(path, start))
        else:
            raise ValueError("path is on drive %s, start on drive %s"
                                                % (path_list[0],
start_list[0]))
    # Work out how much of the filepath is shared by start and path.
    for i in range(min(len(start_list), len(path_list))):
        if start_list[i].lower() != path_list[i].lower():
            break
    else:
        i += 1

    rel_list = [pardir] * (len(start_list)-i) + path_list[i:]
    if not rel_list:
        return curdir
    return join(*rel_list)


From asmodai at in-nomine.org  Sun Aug  9 04:41:11 2009
From: asmodai at in-nomine.org (Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 10:41:11 +0200
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	<2qcrk6-doj.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	
	
	
Message-ID: <20090809084111.GB30241@nexus.in-nomine.org>

-On [20090808 20:07], Thorsten Kampe (thorsten at thorstenkampe.de) wrote:
>In real life people won't even notice whether an application takes one or
>two minutes to complete.

I think you are quite wrong here.

I have worked with optical engineers who needed to calculate grating numbers
for their lenses. If they can have a calculation program that runs in 1
minute instead of 2 they can effectively double their output during the day
(since they run calculations hundreds to thousand times a day to get the
most optimal results with minor tweaks).

I think you are being a bit too easy on hand waving here that mere minute
runtimes are not noticeable.

-- 
Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven  / asmodai
????? ?????? ??? ?? ??????
http://www.in-nomine.org/ | http://www.rangaku.org/ | GPG: 2EAC625B
When we have not what we like, we must like what we have...


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Aug  9 04:48:16 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 09 Aug 2009 08:48:16 GMT
Subject: Why all the __double_underscored_vars__?
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <00081096$0$2954$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 12:11:19 +0000, kj wrote:

> In  Chris Rebert
>  writes:
> 
>>The double-underscores indicate that the Python interpreter itself
>>usually is the caller of the method, and as such some level of "magic"
>>may be associated with it. Other languages have you do the equivalent of
>>`def +():` or `def operator +()` to override an operator, the keyword or
>>symbol serving a similar warning that "here be magic".
> 
> In this case, then I hope that some of these __items__ get demoted to a
> more mundane level, so that the notion of "magic" doesn't get
> trivialized by everyday idioms like:
> 
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     # etc

But that is magic, and just because it's magic doesn't mean it's not 
useful every day.

I don't see what's so difficult about telling your students that double 
underscore names have special meaning to the Python interpreter. That 
doesn't mean you're forbidden from using them, or that you have to use 
them, it just means that they have a special meaning to the interpreter, 
and you usually don't call them directly.



-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Aug  9 05:07:31 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 09 Aug 2009 09:07:31 GMT
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	
	
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro
	ups.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <00081519$0$2954$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 20:27:49 +0100, Mark Lawrence wrote:

> Further, I have seen many requests here which are nothing really to do
> with Python, say a query about which algorithm to use.  Response "Not
> really a Python question, but try ...".  Put the same question on (say)
> the C ng and you'd be told in no uncertain terms to Foxtrot Oscar.

We're a lot friendlier than the C newsgroup.

Personally, I think knowing the right algorithm to use is as much a part 
of Python programming as knowing whether to call mystring.upper() or 
string.upper(mystring).


-- 
Steven


From mh at pixar.com  Sun Aug  9 05:37:52 2009
From: mh at pixar.com (mh at pixar.com)
Date: 09 Aug 2009 09:37:52 GMT
Subject: tracing openurl input and output?
Message-ID: <4a7e98f0$0$9288$386e9d2@news.usenetserver.com>

How can I watch the messages being sent back and for on urllib shttp
requests?  If it were simple http I would just watch the socket traffic
but of course that won't work for https.  Is there a debug flag I can
set that will do this?

context:  I am dealing with a web service bug and I want to tell
the provider exactly what is going back and forth to his server,
eliminating the "maybe there's a bug in your library" chat.

    import urllib
    params = urllib.urlencode({'spam': 1, 'eggs': 2, 'bacon': 0})
    f = urllib.urlopen("https://example.com/cgi-bin/query", params)

Many TIA!

-- 
Mark Harrison
Pixar Animation Studios


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Aug  9 06:01:25 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 09 Aug 2009 10:01:25 GMT
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
References: 
	
	<2qcrk6-doj.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	
	<028b1ce0$0$5185$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<556b00a3-bbbf-4076-a300-d20839a313c8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<0006746a$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<41a0l6-2u4.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	
Message-ID: <000821ba$0$2954$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 19:00:11 +0200, Thorsten Kampe wrote:

>> I was running it one million times to mitigate influences on the timing
>> by other background processes which is a common technique when
>> benchmarking.
> 
> Err, no. That is what "repeat" is for and it defaults to 3 ("This means
> that other processes running on the same computer may interfere with the
> timing. The best thing to do when accurate timing is necessary is to
> repeat the timing a few times and use the best time. [...] the default
> of 3 repetitions is probably enough in most cases.")


It's useful to look at the timeit module to see what the author(s) think.

Let's start with the repeat() method. In the Timer docstring:

"The repeat() method is a convenience to call timeit() multiple times and 
return a list of results."

and the repeat() method's own docstring:

"This is a convenience function that calls the timeit() repeatedly, 
returning a list of results.  The first argument specifies how many times 
to call timeit(), defaulting to 3; the second argument specifies the 
timer argument, defaulting to one million."

So it's quite obvious that the module author(s), and possibly even Tim 
Peters himself, consider repeat() to be a mere convenience method. 
There's nothing you can do with repeat() that can't be done with the 
timeit() method itself.

Notice that both repeat() and timeit() methods take an argument to 
specify how many times to execute the code snippet. Why not just execute 
it once? The module doesn't say, but the answer is a basic measurement 
technique: if your clock is accurate to (say) a millisecond, and you 
measure a single event as taking a millisecond, then your relative error 
is roughly 100%. But if you time 1000 events, and measure the total time 
as 1 second, the relative error is now 0.1%.

The authors of the timeit module obvious considered this an important 
factor: not only did they allow you to specify the number of times to 
execute the code snippet (defaulting to one million, not to one) but they 
had this to say:

[quote]
Command line usage:
    python timeit.py [-n N] [-r N] [-s S] [-t] [-c] [-h] [statement]

Options:
  -n/--number N: how many times to execute 'statement'
 [...]

If -n is not given, a suitable number of loops is calculated by trying
successive powers of 10 until the total time is at least 0.2 seconds.
[end quote]

In other words, when calling the timeit module from the command line, by 
default it will choose a value for n that gives a sufficiently small 
relative error.

It's not an accident that timeit gives you two "count" parameters: the 
number of times to execute the code snippet per timing, and the number of 
timings. They control (partly) for different sources of error.



-- 
Steven


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Sun Aug  9 06:47:15 2009
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 9 Aug 2009 10:47:15 GMT
Subject: tracing openurl input and output?
References: <4a7e98f0$0$9288$386e9d2@news.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: 

mh at pixar.com wrote:

> How can I watch the messages being sent back and for on urllib shttp
> requests?  If it were simple http I would just watch the socket traffic
> but of course that won't work for https.  Is there a debug flag I can
> set that will do this?
> 
> context:  I am dealing with a web service bug and I want to tell
> the provider exactly what is going back and forth to his server,
> eliminating the "maybe there's a bug in your library" chat.
> 
>     import urllib
>     params = urllib.urlencode({'spam': 1, 'eggs': 2, 'bacon': 0})
>     f = urllib.urlopen("https://example.com/cgi-bin/query", params)
> 
> Many TIA!
> 
If you are running on Windows then I'd say get hold of a copy of fiddler2 
(http://www.fiddler2.com/fiddler2/) and tell your code to use it as a 
proxy. It does an excellent job of capturing and decoding web traffic and 
even lets you modify packets as they go past. The only thing to watch for 
with https is that your code will see an invalid certificate as of course 
it sees fiddler's own self signed certificate instead of the original.

I'm not sure what Linux or Mac equivalents there might be (though in a 
pinch you can always run your code on one system and Fiddler on a different 
one).


From nipunreddevil at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 07:03:04 2009
From: nipunreddevil at gmail.com (nipun batra)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 16:33:04 +0530
Subject: String algo
Message-ID: <1e61b3260908090403o1b6c5a66w7c59a2bd29e193a1@mail.gmail.com>

I will be receiving data serially from another pc,.i can use any sort of
marker between two packets,i will be the person sending data as well after
reading it from some devices.But packet length is not constant.
each packet has this format:
201.535a56.65b4.56c89.565d
another packet could be :
4a5b6c7d
What i need is a program to store variables such as:var_a has value 4,var_b
has value 5,for second string.
I have to read and write data continuosly using serial port.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

From lokeshmaremalla at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 07:43:33 2009
From: lokeshmaremalla at gmail.com (Lokesh)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 04:43:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need help in configuration for TimedRotatingFileHandler
Message-ID: <7e6938ce-91c9-4b65-980f-46d76bf69220@d36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

Need help in configure the TimedRotatingFileHandler from configuration
file

I have tried with the below code and ended up with the error, code is
pasted below
Error - IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'G:\\lok_sib\
\logs\rotate_test'
[loggers]
keys=root,simpleExample

[handlers]
keys=consoleHandler,timedRotatingFileHandler

[formatters]
keys=simpleFormatter

[logger_root]
level=DEBUG
handlers=consoleHandler

[logger_simpleExample]
level=DEBUG
handlers=timedRotatingFileHandler
qualname=simpleExample
propagate=0

[handler_consoleHandler]
class=StreamHandler
level=DEBUG
formatter=simpleFormatter
args=(sys.stdout,)

[handler_timedRotatingFileHandler]
class=handlers.TimedRotatingFileHandler
level=DEBUG
formatter=simpleFormatter
args=("G:\lok_sib\logs\rotate_test", 'midnight', 1)

[formatter_simpleFormatter]
format=%(asctime)s - %(name)s - %(levelname)s - %(message)s
datefmt='%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S'


Thanks or your time
Regards,
Lokesh


From gert.cuykens at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 08:14:33 2009
From: gert.cuykens at gmail.com (gert)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 05:14:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: resume upload wsgi script
Message-ID: <36993141-188c-4b13-8819-e60516d27437@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

I working on a resume upload script and encountered the following
problems

sql: Could not decode to UTF-8 column 'SUBSTR(picture,?)' with text
'\ufffd\ufff
d\ufffd\ufffd?!Exif------------Ef1gL6KM7Ij5ae0gL6KM7cH2cH2GI3
Content-Disposition: form-data; name="Filename"

DSC00013.JPG
------------Ef1

when I dont use SUBSTR or  COALESCE and || it works

def application(environ, response):
    range=environ.get('HTTP_RANGE','bytes=0-').replace
('bytes=','').split(',')
    offset=[]
    for r in range: offset.append(r.split('-'))
    db.execute('UPDATE users SET picture=SUBSTR(picture,?) WHERE
uid=?', (offset[0][0],s.UID))

    chunk=environ['wsgi.input'].read(int(environ
['CONTENT_LENGTH'])).decode('latin1')
    db.execute('UPDATE users SET picture=COALESCE(picture,?)||? WHERE
uid=?', (''.encode('latin1'),chunk.encode('latin1'), s.UID))

    #while True:
    #      chunk=environ['wsgi.input'].read(8192).decode('latin1')
    #      if not chunk: break
    #      db.execute("UPDATE users SET picture=COALESCE
(picture,'')||? WHERE uid=?", (chunk, s.UID))

the following is the POST clean up when PUT is not used, does anyone
know how to do this without loading the complete blob into memory ?

    db.execute('SELECT picture FROM users WHERE uid=?',(s.UID,))
    f=db.fetch()
    b=environ['CONTENT_TYPE'].split('boundary=')[1]
    p=search(b+r'.*?Content-Type: application/octet-stream\r\n\r\n(.*?)
\r\n--'+b,f[0][0].decode('latin1'),DOTALL).group(1)
    db.execute('UPDATE users SET picture=? WHERE uid=?', (p.encode
('latin1'), s.UID))



From manu3d at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 08:32:46 2009
From: manu3d at gmail.com (Emanuele D'Arrigo)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 05:32:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: exec("dir()",d)
Message-ID: <9adbf402-3e7e-44a4-adb3-afc36d5d88ba@33g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>

Greetings everybody,

I don't quite understand why if I do this:

>>> d = {}
>>> exec("dir()", d)

1) d is no longer empty
2) the content of d now looks like __builtins__.__dict__ but isn't
quite it d == __builtins__.__dict__ returns false.

Can anybody shed some light?

Manu


From mwilson at the-wire.com  Sun Aug  9 08:50:41 2009
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 08:50:41 -0400
Subject: exec("dir()",d)
References: <9adbf402-3e7e-44a4-adb3-afc36d5d88ba@33g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Emanuele D'Arrigo wrote:

> Greetings everybody,
> 
> I don't quite understand why if I do this:
> 
>>>> d = {}
>>>> exec("dir()", d)
> 
> 1) d is no longer empty
> 2) the content of d now looks like __builtins__.__dict__ but isn't
> quite it d == __builtins__.__dict__ returns false.
> 
> Can anybody shed some light?

You should check up on what exec does.  In this case it runs a string 
containing code using dictionary `d` as its global namespace, and so `d` has 
to contain the usual global namespace symbols -- otherwise `dict` can't 
work.  `__builtins__.__dict__ is one of the elements in the global 
namespace, not the namespace itself.  Another example:


Python 2.6.2 (release26-maint, Apr 19 2009, 01:56:41) 
[GCC 4.3.3] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> a=7
>>> d={'b':a}
>>> exec ("print b", d)
7
>>> d
{'__builtins__': {'bytearray': , 'IndexError': , 'all': , 'help': Type 
help() for interactive help, or help(object) for help about object., 'vars': 
, 'SyntaxError': , 
'unicode': , 'UnicodeDecodeError': , 'isinstance': , 'copyright': Copyright (c) 2001-2009 Python Software 
Foundation.
[ ... ]
'AssertionError': , 'classmethod': , 'UnboundLocalError': , 
'NotImplementedError': , 
'AttributeError': , 'OverflowError': }, 'b': 7}
>>> 

To get rid of the name error, you'd need
d={}
d['d'] = d
exec ("dir (d)", d)


	Mel.



From lists at cheimes.de  Sun Aug  9 09:01:48 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 15:01:48 +0200
Subject: exec("dir()",d)
In-Reply-To: <9adbf402-3e7e-44a4-adb3-afc36d5d88ba@33g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
References: <9adbf402-3e7e-44a4-adb3-afc36d5d88ba@33g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Emanuele D'Arrigo schrieb:
> Greetings everybody,
> 
> I don't quite understand why if I do this:
> 
>>>> d = {}
>>>> exec("dir()", d)
> 
> 1) d is no longer empty
> 2) the content of d now looks like __builtins__.__dict__ but isn't
> quite it d == __builtins__.__dict__ returns false.
> 
> Can anybody shed some light?

RTFM helps ;) http://docs.python.org/reference/simple_stmts.html#exec

As a side effect, an implementation may insert additional keys into the 
dictionaries given besides those corresponding to variable names set by 
the executed code. For example, the current implementation may add a 
reference to the dictionary of the built-in module __builtin__ under the 
key __builtins__ (!).

Christian



From samwyse at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 09:13:38 2009
From: samwyse at gmail.com (samwyse)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 06:13:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: setting Referer for urllib.urlretrieve
Message-ID: <1668f798-0a73-47a5-9f87-34312109c67c@v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

Here's what I have so far:

import urllib

class AppURLopener(urllib.FancyURLopener):
    version = "App/1.7"
    referrer = None
    def __init__(self, *args):
        urllib.FancyURLopener.__init__(self, *args)
        if self.referrer:
            addheader('Referer', self.referrer)

urllib._urlopener = AppURLopener()

Unfortunately, the 'Referer' header potentially varies for each url
that I retrieve, and the way the module is written, I can't change the
calls to __init__ or open. The best idea I've had is to assign a new
value to my class variable just before calling urllib.urlretrieve(),
but that just seems ugly.  Any ideas?  Thanks.

PS for anyone not familiar with the RFCs:  Yes, I'm spelling
"referrer" correctly everywhere in my code.


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Sun Aug  9 09:14:20 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 15:14:20 +0200
Subject: Serial port access
In-Reply-To: <1e61b3260908081820r702a4e24s6599fa724c97344a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1e61b3260908080934g1ff65580k5836648db436b336@mail.gmail.com>
	<50697b2c0908081341o63636f36i99b5971fdb0bbb57@mail.gmail.com>
	<1e61b3260908081820r702a4e24s6599fa724c97344a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200908091514.20684.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Sunday 09 August 2009 03:20:12 nipun batra wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 2:11 AM, Chris Rebert  wrote:
> > On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 12:34 PM, nipun batra
> >
> > wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > > How can we access serial port using usb-serial converters,using python
> > > in linux.
> >
> > PySerial might also be an option:
> > http://pyserial.sourceforge.net/index.html
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Chris
> > --
> > http://blog.rebertia.com
>
> pySerial mentions about serial ports but not about usb-serial.Can i do
> something like convert my usb-serial to act as serial port and then use
> pySerial

You can also look in the /dev directory to see which tty is created when you
plug in the usb to serial converter, and use that /dev/ttySx as a file, 
reading and writing to it directly.

You will need this information whatever you do, as you will need to specify
which port to use, to whatever software you choose to use.

- Hendrik


From deets at nospam.web.de  Sun Aug  9 09:17:39 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 15:17:39 +0200
Subject: resume upload wsgi script
In-Reply-To: <36993141-188c-4b13-8819-e60516d27437@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: <36993141-188c-4b13-8819-e60516d27437@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7e80jlF2etv0kU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

gert schrieb:
> I working on a resume upload script and encountered the following
> problems
> 
> sql: Could not decode to UTF-8 column 'SUBSTR(picture,?)' with text
> '\ufffd\ufff
> d\ufffd\ufffd?!Exif------------Ef1gL6KM7Ij5ae0gL6KM7cH2cH2GI3
> Content-Disposition: form-data; name="Filename"

You are treating a binary data column as if it were a string. That's 
bogus, you need to use a blob column.

Also I wouldn't combine the uplodaded chunks until the full upload is 
finished - and even then only if I actually need the data.

Diez


From gert.cuykens at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 09:31:12 2009
From: gert.cuykens at gmail.com (gert)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 06:31:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: resume upload wsgi script
References: <36993141-188c-4b13-8819-e60516d27437@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<7e80jlF2etv0kU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 9, 3:17?pm, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
> gert schrieb:
>
> > I working on a resume upload script and encountered the following
> > problems
>
> > sql: Could not decode to UTF-8 column 'SUBSTR(picture,?)' with text
> > '\ufffd\ufff
> > d\ufffd\ufffd?!Exif------------Ef1gL6KM7Ij5ae0gL6KM7cH2cH2GI3
> > Content-Disposition: form-data; name="Filename"
>
> You are treating a binary data column as if it were a string. That's
> bogus, you need to use a blob column.
>
> Also I wouldn't combine the uplodaded chunks until the full upload is
> finished - and even then only if I actually need the data.
>
> Diez

And the best solution would be to use TEXT instead or some sort of
SUBBIN that i do not know of in sqlite ?



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Aug  9 10:41:05 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 09 Aug 2009 14:41:05 GMT
Subject: setting Referer for urllib.urlretrieve
References: <1668f798-0a73-47a5-9f87-34312109c67c@v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <028ed082$0$20617$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 06:13:38 -0700, samwyse wrote:

> Here's what I have so far:
> 
> import urllib
> 
> class AppURLopener(urllib.FancyURLopener):
>     version = "App/1.7"
>     referrer = None
>     def __init__(self, *args):
>         urllib.FancyURLopener.__init__(self, *args)
>         if self.referrer:
>             addheader('Referer', self.referrer)
> 
> urllib._urlopener = AppURLopener()
> 
> Unfortunately, the 'Referer' header potentially varies for each url that
> I retrieve, and the way the module is written, I can't change the calls
> to __init__ or open. The best idea I've had is to assign a new value to
> my class variable just before calling urllib.urlretrieve(), but that
> just seems ugly.  Any ideas?  Thanks.

[Aside: an int variable is an int. A str variable is a str. A list 
variable is a list. A class variable is a class. You probably mean a 
class attribute, not a variable. If other languages want to call it a 
variable, or a sausage, that's their problem.]

If you're prepared for a bit of extra work, you could take over all the 
URL handling instead of relying on automatic openers. This will give you 
much finer control, but it will also require more effort on your part. 
The basic idea is, instead of installing openers, and then ask the urllib 
module to handle the connection, you handle the connection yourself:

make a Request object using urllib2.Request
make an Opener object using urllib2.build_opener
call opener.open(request) to connect to the server
deal with the connection (retry, fail or read)

Essentially, you use the Request object instead of a URL, and you would 
add the appropriate referer header to the Request object.

Another approach, perhaps a more minimal change than the above, would be 
something like this:

# untested
class AppURLopener(urllib.FancyURLopener):
    version = "App/1.7"
    def __init__(self, *args):
        urllib.FancyURLopener.__init__(self, *args)
    def add_referrer(self, url=None):
        if url:
            addheader('Referer', url)

urllib._urlopener = AppURLopener()
urllib._urlopener.add_referrer("http://example.com/")



-- 
Steven


From deets at nospam.web.de  Sun Aug  9 10:42:11 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 16:42:11 +0200
Subject: resume upload wsgi script
In-Reply-To: 
References: <36993141-188c-4b13-8819-e60516d27437@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<7e80jlF2etv0kU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
Message-ID: <7e85i3F2fdc1eU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

gert schrieb:
> On Aug 9, 3:17 pm, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
>> gert schrieb:
>>
>>> I working on a resume upload script and encountered the following
>>> problems
>>> sql: Could not decode to UTF-8 column 'SUBSTR(picture,?)' with text
>>> '\ufffd\ufff
>>> d\ufffd\ufffd?!Exif------------Ef1gL6KM7Ij5ae0gL6KM7cH2cH2GI3
>>> Content-Disposition: form-data; name="Filename"
>> You are treating a binary data column as if it were a string. That's
>> bogus, you need to use a blob column.
>>
>> Also I wouldn't combine the uplodaded chunks until the full upload is
>> finished - and even then only if I actually need the data.
>>
>> Diez
> 
> And the best solution would be to use TEXT instead or some sort of
> SUBBIN that i do not know of in sqlite ?
> 

No, the best solution would be to use "BLOB", and no SUB*-stuff, but 
instead a 1:n-relation of chunks, that when the upload is finished you 
can easily combine in python to one large blob, storing that in the DB 
again.

Diez


From kushal.kumaran+python at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 10:58:14 2009
From: kushal.kumaran+python at gmail.com (Kushal Kumaran)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 20:28:14 +0530
Subject: Need help in configuration for TimedRotatingFileHandler
In-Reply-To: <7e6938ce-91c9-4b65-980f-46d76bf69220@d36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
References: <7e6938ce-91c9-4b65-980f-46d76bf69220@d36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1e364c4e0908090758m5daa8ec2td7109498d96569b7@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 5:13 PM, Lokesh wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Need help in configure the TimedRotatingFileHandler from configuration
> file
>
> I have tried with the below code and ended up with the error, code is
> pasted below
> Error - IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'G:\\lok_sib\
> \logs\rotate_test'

Does the directory G:\\lok_sib\\logs exist?

> 

-- 
kushal


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Sun Aug  9 11:15:32 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 17:15:32 +0200
Subject: Need help in configuration for TimedRotatingFileHandler
In-Reply-To: <7e6938ce-91c9-4b65-980f-46d76bf69220@d36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
References: <7e6938ce-91c9-4b65-980f-46d76bf69220@d36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

09-08-2009 Lokesh  wrote:

> I have tried with the below code and ended up with the error, code is
> pasted below
> Error - IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'G:\\lok_sib\
> \logs\rotate_test'

Note that: '\r' is listed (interpreted by Python as 'carriage return'
special character) and not '\\r' (which would mean '\' char + 'r' char).

Regards,
*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From koranthala at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 11:35:55 2009
From: koranthala at gmail.com (koranthala)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 08:35:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Twisted - how to get text for HTTP error responses
Message-ID: <3ae722aa-4e65-475c-b345-73b394779db8@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

Hi,
   I am writing a HTTP client in Twisted. The client contacts the
server, and any errors in the sent messages will be returned back to
the client in 400 message. The reason for failure at the server is
sent as the text in the 400 message. I tried the same using the
browser, and I can see the error text (the text might be like - 'Item
X not found in DB').
   The client is supposed to use this text and calculate the next
messages to be sent to the server. But, I cannot seem to find a
mechanism to get the response text from the errback. I went through
failure.py, but I couldnt find a way to do it.
   Ex:
I send a data to the server as so
d = defer.waitForDeferred(getPage(url, method='POST', headers=hdr,
postdata=form))
yield d
try:
   reply = d.getResult()
   success(reply)
except Error, failure:
   failure(failure)

Now, inside failure method, I was unable to print the text out - say
'Item X not found in DB'.
Is it possible using Twisted? If so, how can it be done?

Thanks in Advance
K



From rt8396 at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 12:04:48 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 09:04:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bug or feature: double strings as one
References: 
	  
	<000674d6$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <7c15f7b0-49f2-4210-bc7a-e82941e9ddd9@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 8, 12:43?pm, "Jan Kaliszewski"  wrote:
> 08-08-2009 Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
...(snip)
> I use it very often, e.g.:
>
> ? ? ? ? ?afunction('quite long string %s quite long string '
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?'quite long string quite long string %s '
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?'quite %s long string quite long string'
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?% (variable1, variable2, variable3))
>
> It seems nicer to me than:
>
> ? ? ? ? ?afunction(('quite long string %s quite long string '
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? + 'quite long string quite long string %s '
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? + 'quite %s long string quite long string')
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?% (variable1, variable2, variable3))
>
> (Note that multiline-'''-strings are usless in such cases).
>

uhh? A much better way to handle such a problem is like this...

prompt1 = '''
Some people like to use %s
ways of doing things just
so they can support their %s
way of coding
'''

afunction(prompt1 %(var1, var2))

WOW!, that just somehow looks more professional to me? I hate to long
strings in the middle of a code block. Please be smart when writing
code people!!



From julien.chevalier at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 12:22:40 2009
From: julien.chevalier at gmail.com (Kiki)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 09:22:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Client/Server based on SocketServer and Windows
Message-ID: 

Hello list,

I've written a small Client/server system.
Basically, i'm expecting something like : The client sends every once
and a while a small data chunk (not more than 50 bytes) the server
receive it and print it.

Here is the server request handler :

class ThreadedTCPRequestHandlerFoo(SocketServer.BaseRequestHandler):

    def handle(self):
	    data = self.request.recv(1024)
	    cur_thread = threading.currentThread()
            response = "%s: %s from Foo" % (cur_thread.getName(),
data)
            print response

and this is the client :

def clientPrompt(ip, port, message):
        sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
        sock.connect((ip, port))
	while(1):
		k=raw_input('#>')
		sock.send(k)
		print "%s\n" % k
		if k == 'quit': break
        sock.close()

My problem comes from that I can't send data from client more than
once without having the following Winsock error : 10053 Software
caused connection abort.
I have to restart the client each time I want to send a new message.

Could anyboy explain me why ?

Regards


From exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  Sun Aug  9 12:23:34 2009
From: exarkun at twistedmatrix.com (exarkun at twistedmatrix.com)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 16:23:34 -0000
Subject: Twisted - how to get text for HTTP error responses
In-Reply-To: <3ae722aa-4e65-475c-b345-73b394779db8@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
References: <3ae722aa-4e65-475c-b345-73b394779db8@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20090809162334.7171.12739707.divmod.xquotient.199@localhost.localdomain>

On 03:35 pm, koranthala at gmail.com wrote:
>Hi,
>   I am writing a HTTP client in Twisted. The client contacts the
>server, and any errors in the sent messages will be returned back to
>the client in 400 message. The reason for failure at the server is
>sent as the text in the 400 message. I tried the same using the
>browser, and I can see the error text (the text might be like - 'Item
>X not found in DB').
>   The client is supposed to use this text and calculate the next
>messages to be sent to the server. But, I cannot seem to find a
>mechanism to get the response text from the errback. I went through
>failure.py, but I couldnt find a way to do it.
>   Ex:
>I send a data to the server as so
>d = defer.waitForDeferred(getPage(url, method='POST', headers=hdr,
>postdata=form))
>yield d
>try:
>   reply = d.getResult()
>   success(reply)
>except Error, failure:
>   failure(failure)
>
>Now, inside failure method, I was unable to print the text out - say
>'Item X not found in DB'.
>Is it possible using Twisted? If so, how can it be done?

The Error instance which the local "failure" is bound to in your example 
above has a number of attributes, one of which is "status" which may be 
what you're looking for.  If not, take a look at its other attributes.

Jean-Paul


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Sun Aug  9 12:47:26 2009
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 11:47:26 -0500
Subject: String algo
In-Reply-To: <1e61b3260908090403o1b6c5a66w7c59a2bd29e193a1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1e61b3260908090403o1b6c5a66w7c59a2bd29e193a1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A7EFD9E.50805@tim.thechases.com>

nipun batra wrote:
> I will be receiving data serially from another pc,.i can use any sort of
> marker between two packets,i will be the person sending data as well after
> reading it from some devices.But packet length is not constant.
> each packet has this format:
> 201.535a56.65b4.56c89.565d
> another packet could be :
> 4a5b6c7d
> What i need is a program to store variables such as:var_a has value 4,var_b
> has value 5,for second string.
> I have to read and write data continuosly using serial port.

Sounds like you want to break apart your string at the 
non-numeric bits, and then create a mapping from them:

 >>> import re
 >>> s = "201.535a56.65b4.56c89.565d"
 >>> r = re.compile(r"(\d+(?:\.\d+)?)([a-z]+)", re.I)
 >>> r.findall(s)
[('201.535', 'a'), ('56.65', 'b'), ('4.56', 'c'), ('89.565', 'd')]
 >>> d = dict((k,float(v)) for v,k in r.findall(s))
 >>> print d['a']
201.535
 >>> print d['c']
4.56
 >>> print 'z' in d
False
 >>> print 'b' in d
True

Adjust the regexp accordingly if there are +/- signs, 
exponentiation, limits on the splitting-characters, etc.


-tkc









From b1540457 at tyldd.com  Sun Aug  9 13:02:03 2009
From: b1540457 at tyldd.com (Anny Mous)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 03:02:03 +1000
Subject: Bug or feature: double strings as one
References: 
	
	
	<000674d6$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<7c15f7b0-49f2-4210-bc7a-e82941e9ddd9@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

r wrote:

> On Aug 8, 12:43?pm, "Jan Kaliszewski"  wrote:

>> (Note that multiline-'''-strings are usless in such cases).
>>
> 
> uhh? A much better way to handle such a problem is like this...
> 
> prompt1 = '''
> Some people like to use %s
> ways of doing things just
> so they can support their %s
> way of coding
> '''

Oh wow, you so need to work on your reading comprehension skills! Didn't you
notice Jan's comment that multiline ''' strings are useless??? They add
extra newlines into the string which aren't wanted.

> WOW!, that just somehow looks more professional to me? I hate to long
> strings in the middle of a code block. Please be smart when writing
> code people!!

Because totally failing to pay attention to the requirements is "smart".





From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Sun Aug  9 13:10:52 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 19:10:52 +0200
Subject: Bug or feature: double strings as one
In-Reply-To: <7c15f7b0-49f2-4210-bc7a-e82941e9ddd9@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	
	<000674d6$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<7c15f7b0-49f2-4210-bc7a-e82941e9ddd9@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

09-08-2009 r  wrote:

> On Aug 8, 12:43?pm, "Jan Kaliszewski"  wrote:
>> 08-08-2009 Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
> ...(snip)
>> I use it very often, e.g.:
>>
>> ? ? ? ? ?afunction('quite long string %s quite long string '
>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?'quite long string quite long string %s '
>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?'quite %s long string quite long string'
>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?% (variable1, variable2, variable3))
>>
>> It seems nicer to me than:
>>
>> ? ? ? ? ?afunction(('quite long string %s quite long string '
>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? + 'quite long string quite long string %s '
>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? + 'quite %s long string quite long string')
>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?% (variable1, variable2, variable3))
>>
>> (Note that multiline-'''-strings are usless in such cases).
>>
>
> uhh? A much better way to handle such a problem is like this...
>
> prompt1 = '''
> Some people like to use %s
> ways of doing things just
> so they can support their %s
> way of coding
> '''

Sorry, you are wrong, '''-way would be usefull only if:

     * you want to have '\n' in each place where you wrap the
       literal in your code,

and

     * you use '''-literal at a module (non-indented) level

       or you need not only '\n'-s but also indentations
          (dependent on indentation of your code),

       or such ugly indentation is ok for you:

           some indentated code...
  ? ? ? ? ?prompt = '''quite long string %s quite long string
''' quite long string quite long string %s
''' quite %s long string quite long string
'''
           some indentated code...


That's why I wrote it's "useless in such cases."

Regards,
*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From no.i.dont at want.mail.from.spammers.com  Sun Aug  9 13:16:50 2009
From: no.i.dont at want.mail.from.spammers.com (Fencer)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 19:16:50 +0200
Subject: Problem with join in__str__() in class (newbie)
Message-ID: <7e8ek2F2dre5lU1@mid.individual.net>

Hello, I've written two classes. One class describes experts: experts 
has a unique ID and a name. An expert knows topics and other experts. A 
topic is described by my other class and includes a unique ID and a 
name. Now I have a problem with the __str__ method in my Expert class:

def __str__(self):
     output = '%s:%s' % (self.expert_id, self.name)
     output += '\nKnown topics: %s' % (', '.join(str(self.topics)))
#   print 'Known experts: '
#   for e in self.known_experts:
#       print '%s:%s' % (e.expert_id, e.name)
     return output

self.topics is a list of objects of type Topic.
self.known_experts is a list of objects of type Expert, specifically the 
experts known by the given expert.

When I print an object of type Expert, the output is not what I want. If 
the expert knows only one topic, say polemics, the output is:
e2:Carla
Known topics: t, 5, :, P, o, l, e, m, i, c, s
If the expert knows two topics, say Polemics and The Parthenon, then the 
  output is:
e2:Carla
Known topics: [, <, _, _, m, a, i, n, _, _, ., T, o, p, i, c,  , i, n, 
s, t, a, n, c, e,  , a, t,  , 0, x, 0, 2, 2, 2, D, 0, 8, 0, >, ]

This is not what I want. :) I want the output like this:
e2:Carla
Known topics: t5:Polemics, t6:The Parthenon

Also, notice the code I've commented out. If I can get the join above to 
work (with your help) my next question is how to present the known 
experts in a comma separated list with only expert_id and name? I can't 
use the normal __str__() method (the one I'm writing here) because it 
prints too much information. Does that mean a join is out of the question?

Thanks for any replies!

- Fencer


From jonrascal at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 13:28:13 2009
From: jonrascal at gmail.com (jon rascal)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 10:28:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Problem with join in__str__() in class (newbie)
References: <7e8ek2F2dre5lU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: 


> def __str__(self):
> ? ? ?output = '%s:%s' % (self.expert_id, self.name)
> ? ? ?output += '\nKnown topics: %s' % (', '.join(str(self.topics)))

You're turning your list into a string -- try this:
', '.join([str(x) for x in self.topics])


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 13:37:08 2009
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 10:37:08 -0700
Subject: Problem with join in__str__() in class (newbie)
In-Reply-To: <7e8ek2F2dre5lU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <7e8ek2F2dre5lU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c20908091037l2db51049v74b2e18efc927c25@mail.gmail.com>

   output += '\nKnown topics: %s' % (', '.join(str(self.topics)))


Your problem is here.

self.topics is a list of topic instances: but you're calling str() on the
list itself to turn the LIST itself into a string. Compare:

>>> x = [1,2,3]
>>> x
[1, 2, 3]
>>> str(x)
'[1, 2, 3]'

Now, after str(self.topics) is done, you have one big string. A string is a
sequence of characters (mostly). Calling ",".join(string) will do just what
you see there-- return a string with a comma between each character.

What you want to do, I assume, is call str() on each item in self.topics,
and join them.

That would be:

output += '\nKnown topics: %s' % ( ','.join(str(item) for item in
self.topics) )

That's a generator expression which will do what you want, I believe.
Provided your topic instances have a __str__ method that returns a string of
the form "t:".

Also, notice the code I've commented out. If I can get the join above to
> work (with your help) my next question is how to present the known experts
> in a comma separated list with only expert_id and name? I can't use the
> normal __str__() method (the one I'm writing here) because it prints too
> much information. Does that mean a join is out of the question?


Honestly, I think you are putting too much into the Expert class's __str__
method. I would make it do basically:

return "%s:%s" % (self.expert_id, self.name)

And then put the __str__ you're working on above in a different method which
does -- more. Call it 'dump' or something. That way you CAN just use the
normal str/__str__ from within this 'dump' and get what you want. str()
should return that object in its stringified form. Another method is a
better way to dump 'that object' and things 'around' it and that it 'knows'.

But if you really must have just str(expert) and have it return the big
chunk of information, your commented code looks about right. You'll have to
use your knowledge of how the internal expert class works instead of relying
on the experts just returning a str() of themselves. That's slightly bad.
But not horrible.

HTH,

--S
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From no.i.dont at want.mail.from.spammers.com  Sun Aug  9 13:42:23 2009
From: no.i.dont at want.mail.from.spammers.com (Fencer)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 19:42:23 +0200
Subject: Problem with join in__str__() in class (newbie)
In-Reply-To: 
References: <7e8ek2F2dre5lU1@mid.individual.net>
	
Message-ID: <7e8g3vF2etertU1@mid.individual.net>

jon rascal wrote:
> 
> You're turning your list into a string -- try this:
> ', '.join([str(x) for x in self.topics])

Thanks for your quick reply, unfortunately it didn't quite work for me.
Say topics contain two topics: polemics, and the parthenon I get this 
output:
e2:Carla
Known topics: t5:Polemics

only the first topic is printed. If topics only contain a single topic I 
get this error:
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "C:\Users\fencer\workspace\Find Expert\src\find_expert.py", line 
57, in 
     print experts[1]
   File "C:\Users\fencer\workspace\Find Expert\src\find_expert.py", line 
21, in __str__
     output += '\nKnown topics: %s' % (', '.join([str(x) for x in 
self.topics]))
TypeError: iteration over non-sequence

What did I do wrong?

- Fencer


From gert.cuykens at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 13:51:25 2009
From: gert.cuykens at gmail.com (gert)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 10:51:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: resume upload wsgi script
References: <36993141-188c-4b13-8819-e60516d27437@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<7e80jlF2etv0kU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	<7e85i3F2fdc1eU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <9cd75067-8839-44dd-9b42-4ffb15488b66@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 9, 4:42?pm, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
> gert schrieb:
>
>
>
> > On Aug 9, 3:17 pm, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
> >> gert schrieb:
>
> >>> I working on a resume upload script and encountered the following
> >>> problems
> >>> sql: Could not decode to UTF-8 column 'SUBSTR(picture,?)' with text
> >>> '\ufffd\ufff
> >>> d\ufffd\ufffd?!Exif------------Ef1gL6KM7Ij5ae0gL6KM7cH2cH2GI3
> >>> Content-Disposition: form-data; name="Filename"
> >> You are treating a binary data column as if it were a string. That's
> >> bogus, you need to use a blob column.
>
> >> Also I wouldn't combine the uplodaded chunks until the full upload is
> >> finished - and even then only if I actually need the data.
>
> >> Diez
>
> > And the best solution would be to use TEXT instead or some sort of
> > SUBBIN that i do not know of in sqlite ?
>
> No, the best solution would be to use "BLOB", and no SUB*-stuff, but
> instead a 1:n-relation of chunks, that when the upload is finished you
> can easily combine in python to one large blob, storing that in the DB
> again.
>
> Diez

so one table of chunks

CREATE TABLE temp (
    file_id  VARCHAR(64),
    chunK_id  INTEGER,
    chunk BLOB,
    PRIMARY KEY(file_id,chunk_id)
);

SELECT chunk FROM temp WHERE file_id = 'file'
concatenating result in python
update blob
delete temp

How do I concatenate results that do not fit into memory ?


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 14:06:44 2009
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 11:06:44 -0700
Subject: Problem with join in__str__() in class (newbie)
In-Reply-To: <7e8g3vF2etertU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <7e8ek2F2dre5lU1@mid.individual.net>
	
	<7e8g3vF2etertU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c20908091106u7a5464dey625220f211e69d58@mail.gmail.com>

>
> only the first topic is printed. If topics only contain a single topic I
> get this error:
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "C:\Users\fencer\workspace\Find Expert\src\find_expert.py", line 57,
> in 
>    print experts[1]
>  File "C:\Users\fencer\workspace\Find Expert\src\find_expert.py", line 21,
> in __str__
>    output += '\nKnown topics: %s' % (', '.join([str(x) for x in
> self.topics]))
> TypeError: iteration over non-sequence
>
> What did I do wrong?
>

It looks like, "if topics contains only a single topic", means:

    self.topics = MyTopic

was done at some point. What you should do is make self.topics ALWAYS be a
list: even if it's only a list of one item.

So you do

    self.topics.append(MyTopic)

when you add that one topic. That way self.topics is always a list.
Sometimes empty, sometimes containing one element, sometimes containing
many.

--S
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From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sun Aug  9 14:10:08 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 19:10:08 +0100
Subject: Problem with join in__str__() in class (newbie)
In-Reply-To: <7e8g3vF2etertU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <7e8ek2F2dre5lU1@mid.individual.net>	
	<7e8g3vF2etertU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <4A7F1100.5040203@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Fencer wrote:
> jon rascal wrote:
>>
>> You're turning your list into a string -- try this:
>> ', '.join([str(x) for x in self.topics])
> 
> Thanks for your quick reply, unfortunately it didn't quite work for me.
> Say topics contain two topics: polemics, and the parthenon I get this 
> output:
> e2:Carla
> Known topics: t5:Polemics
> 
> only the first topic is printed. If topics only contain a single topic I 
> get this error:
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "C:\Users\fencer\workspace\Find Expert\src\find_expert.py", line 
> 57, in 
>     print experts[1]
>   File "C:\Users\fencer\workspace\Find Expert\src\find_expert.py", line 
> 21, in __str__
>     output += '\nKnown topics: %s' % (', '.join([str(x) for x in 
> self.topics]))
> TypeError: iteration over non-sequence
> 
> What did I do wrong?
> 
Try printing self.topics. It should always be a list of topics.


From deets at nospam.web.de  Sun Aug  9 14:25:47 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 20:25:47 +0200
Subject: resume upload wsgi script
In-Reply-To: <9cd75067-8839-44dd-9b42-4ffb15488b66@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
References: <36993141-188c-4b13-8819-e60516d27437@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<7e80jlF2etv0kU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	<7e85i3F2fdc1eU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<9cd75067-8839-44dd-9b42-4ffb15488b66@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7e8ildF2f1hcpU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

gert schrieb:
> On Aug 9, 4:42 pm, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
>> gert schrieb:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Aug 9, 3:17 pm, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
>>>> gert schrieb:
>>>>> I working on a resume upload script and encountered the following
>>>>> problems
>>>>> sql: Could not decode to UTF-8 column 'SUBSTR(picture,?)' with text
>>>>> '\ufffd\ufff
>>>>> d\ufffd\ufffd?!Exif------------Ef1gL6KM7Ij5ae0gL6KM7cH2cH2GI3
>>>>> Content-Disposition: form-data; name="Filename"
>>>> You are treating a binary data column as if it were a string. That's
>>>> bogus, you need to use a blob column.
>>>> Also I wouldn't combine the uplodaded chunks until the full upload is
>>>> finished - and even then only if I actually need the data.
>>>> Diez
>>> And the best solution would be to use TEXT instead or some sort of
>>> SUBBIN that i do not know of in sqlite ?
>> No, the best solution would be to use "BLOB", and no SUB*-stuff, but
>> instead a 1:n-relation of chunks, that when the upload is finished you
>> can easily combine in python to one large blob, storing that in the DB
>> again.
>>
>> Diez
> 
> so one table of chunks
> 
> CREATE TABLE temp (
>     file_id  VARCHAR(64),
>     chunK_id  INTEGER,
>     chunk BLOB,
>     PRIMARY KEY(file_id,chunk_id)
> );
> 
> SELECT chunk FROM temp WHERE file_id = 'file'
> concatenating result in python
> update blob
> delete temp
> 
> How do I concatenate results that do not fit into memory ?

By writing them into one file? If files were to large for your memory, 
all the substring-stuff wouldn't help either - the sqlite works in the 
same memory as your program...

But how many gigabytes of uploads do you expect?

Diez


From no.i.dont at want.mail.from.spammers.com  Sun Aug  9 14:56:26 2009
From: no.i.dont at want.mail.from.spammers.com (Fencer)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 20:56:26 +0200
Subject: Problem with join in__str__() in class (newbie)
In-Reply-To: 
References: <7e8ek2F2dre5lU1@mid.individual.net>		<7e8g3vF2etertU1@mid.individual.net>
	
Message-ID: <7e8keqF2eib0lU1@mid.individual.net>

MRAB wrote:
> Try printing self.topics. It should always be a list of topics.

Ah, yes, that made me find a bug when I was creating the Expert objects: 
the lists of known topics were not created properly. I should have 
posted more code I suppose! Thanks for the help, this problem has now 
been solved. I guess I can't use a join to print the known experts as I 
described in my first post.

- Fencer


From Nikolaus at rath.org  Sun Aug  9 15:02:57 2009
From: Nikolaus at rath.org (Nikolaus Rath)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 15:02:57 -0400
Subject: Monkeypatching an object to become callable
Message-ID: <87hbwgu7xa.fsf@vostro.rath.org>

Hi,

I want to monkeypatch an object so that it becomes callable, although
originally it is not meant to be. (Yes, I think I do have a good reason
to do so).

But simply adding a __call__ attribute to the object apparently isn't
enough, and I do not want to touch the class object (since it would
modify all the instances):

>>> class foo(object):
...   pass
... 
>>> t = foo()
>>> def test():
...   print 'bar'
... 
>>> t()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
TypeError: 'foo' object is not callable
>>> t.__call__ = test
>>> t()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
TypeError: 'foo' object is not callable
>>> t.__call__()
bar


Is there an additional trick to get it to work?


Best,

   -Nikolaus

-- 
 ?Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a Banana.?

  PGP fingerprint: 5B93 61F8 4EA2 E279 ABF6  02CF A9AD B7F8 AE4E 425C


From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 15:26:54 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 12:26:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
Message-ID: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>

A friend of mine is just learning Python, and he's a bit tweaked about
how unrecognized escape sequences are treated in Python. This is from
the Python 3.0 reference manual:

     Unlike Standard C, all unrecognized escape sequences are left in
the string unchanged, i.e.,
     the backslash is left in the string. (This behavior is useful
when debugging: if an escape
     sequence is mistyped, the resulting output is more easily
recognized as broken.) It is also
     important to note that the escape sequences only recognized in
string literals fall into the
     category of unrecognized escapes for bytes literals.

My friend begs to differ with the above. It would be much better for
debugging if Python generated a parsing error for unrecognized escape
sequences, rather than leaving them unchanged. g++ outputs a warning
for such escape sequences, for instance. This is what I would consider
to be the correct behavior. (Actually, I think it should just generate
a fatal parsing error, but a warning is okay too.)

In any case, I think my friend should mellow out a bit, but we both
consider this something of a wart. He's just more wart-phobic than I
am. Is there any way that this behavior can be considered anything
other than a wart? Other than the unconvincing claim that you can use
this "feature" to save you a bit of typing sometimes when you actually
want a backslash to be in your string?

|>ouglas


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Sun Aug  9 16:15:22 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 22:15:22 +0200
Subject: Problem with join in__str__() in class (newbie)
References: <7e8ek2F2dre5lU1@mid.individual.net>
	
	<7e8g3vF2etertU1@mid.individual.net>
	
	<7e8keqF2eib0lU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Fencer  (F) wrote:

>F> Also, notice the code I've commented out. If I can get the join above to
>F> work (with your help) my next question is how to present the known experts
>F> in a comma separated list with only expert_id and name? I can't use the
>F> normal __str__() method (the one I'm writing here) because it prints too
>F> much information. Does that mean a join is out of the question?

>F> MRAB wrote:
>>> Try printing self.topics. It should always be a list of topics.

>F> Ah, yes, that made me find a bug when I was creating the Expert objects:
>F> the lists of known topics were not created properly. I should have posted
>F> more code I suppose! Thanks for the help, this problem has now been solved.
>F> I guess I can't use a join to print the known experts as I described in my
>F> first post.

Yes, you can. But you need an additional method that gives only the id
and name. Like this:

------------------------------------------------------------------------
class Expert:
    '''An expert'''
    def __init__(self, id, name, topics):
        self.expert_id = id
        self.name = name
        self.topics = topics
        self.known_experts = []
        
    def add_expert(self, expert):
        self.known_experts.append(expert)

    def __str__(self):
        output = (self.brief_str() +
                  '\nKnown topics: %s' % (', '.join(map(str, self.topics))) +
                  ('\nKnown experts: %s' %
                   (', '.join(exp.brief_str() for exp in self.known_experts))))
        return output

    def brief_str(self):
        '''Gives a brief description of the expert: just the id and name.'''
        return '%s:%s' % (self.expert_id, self.name)
    
class Topic:
    '''A topic'''
    def __init__(self, id, name):
        self.topic_id = id
        self.name = name

    def __str__(self):
        return '%s:%s' % (self.topic_id, self.name)

topic1 = Topic('t1', 'Relativity')
topic2 = Topic('t2', 'Math')
topic5 = Topic('t5', 'Polemics')
topic6 = Topic('t6', 'The Parthenon')

expert1 = Expert('e1', 'Albert', [topic1])
expert2 = Expert('e2', 'Leonhard', [topic2])

expert1.add_expert(expert2)

expert5 = Expert('e5', 'Carla', [topic5, topic6])
expert5.add_expert(expert1)
expert5.add_expert(expert2)

for ex in expert1, expert2, expert5:
    print ex
------------------------------------------------------------------------

(I prefer to use map instead of a list/iterator comprehension in this
particular case. With the known_experts that isn't possible, unless
brief_str is made into a static method)
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From victorsubervi at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 16:21:43 2009
From: victorsubervi at gmail.com (Victor Subervi)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 15:21:43 -0500
Subject: Surpressing Warnings
Message-ID: <4dc0cfea0908091321y54156d30sc0c4dc3a564eecab@mail.gmail.com>

Hi:
I get a ton of warnings like this from a program I run:

Warning (from warnings module):
  File "C:\Python25\read.py", line 67
    cursor.execute(sqlKWDrop)
Warning: Unknown table 'judaism_128'

How do I surpress them?
TIA,
Victor
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

From missive at hotmail.com  Sun Aug  9 16:26:31 2009
From: missive at hotmail.com (Lee Harr)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 00:56:31 +0430
Subject: [ANNC] pybotwar-0.5
Message-ID: 


pybotwar is a fun and educational game where players
create computer programs to control simulated robots
to compete in a battle arena.

http://pybotwar.googlecode.com/


pybotwar uses pybox2d for the physical simulation,
and uses pygame and pygsear for the visualization.

pybotwar is released under GPLv3.


Changes in pybotwar-0.5:
    - added tournament mode
    - added explosive shells
    - robots are now damaged by colliding with walls or other robots
    - added damage sensor
    - added gyro sensor
    - added configurable cannon reload time
    - added robot statistics database
    - added time limit for robot startup/ initialization
    - health bar changes color below 30% health
    - fixed force/ torque possibly going over 100%
    - fixed problem with non-integer force/ torque values
    - each robot gets its own log file in test mode
    - send robot errors to log file
    - use optparse for cmd line options


_________________________________________________________________
More than messages?check out the rest of the Windows Live?.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/


From deets at nospam.web.de  Sun Aug  9 16:28:29 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 22:28:29 +0200
Subject: Monkeypatching an object to become callable
In-Reply-To: <87hbwgu7xa.fsf@vostro.rath.org>
References: <87hbwgu7xa.fsf@vostro.rath.org>
Message-ID: <7e8preF2d6adsU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Nikolaus Rath schrieb:
> Hi,
> 
> I want to monkeypatch an object so that it becomes callable, although
> originally it is not meant to be. (Yes, I think I do have a good reason
> to do so).
> 
> But simply adding a __call__ attribute to the object apparently isn't
> enough, and I do not want to touch the class object (since it would
> modify all the instances):
> 
>>>> class foo(object):
> ...   pass
> ... 
>>>> t = foo()
>>>> def test():
> ...   print 'bar'
> ... 
>>>> t()
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "", line 1, in 
> TypeError: 'foo' object is not callable
>>>> t.__call__ = test
>>>> t()
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "", line 1, in 
> TypeError: 'foo' object is not callable
>>>> t.__call__()
> bar
> 
> 
> Is there an additional trick to get it to work?

AFAIK special methods are always only evaluated on the class. But this 
works:

class Foo(object):

     pass

f = Foo()

def make_callable(f):
     class Callable(f.__class__):

         def __call__(self):
             print "foobar"

     f.__class__ = Callable

make_callable(f)
f()

Diez


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 16:34:12 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 13:34:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bug or feature: double strings as one
References: 
	  
	<000674d6$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	 
	<7c15f7b0-49f2-4210-bc7a-e82941e9ddd9@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: <21131b4b-67d3-4ddf-b061-60327d670ca7@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 9, 12:10?pm, "Jan Kaliszewski"  wrote:
..(snip)
> Sorry, you are wrong, '''-way would be usefull only if:
>
> ? ? ?* you want to have '\n' in each place where you wrap the
> ? ? ? ?literal in your code,
>
> and
>
> ? ? ?* you use '''-literal at a module (non-indented) level
>
> ? ? ? ?or you need not only '\n'-s but also indentations
> ? ? ? ? ? (dependent on indentation of your code),
>
> ? ? ? ?or such ugly indentation is ok for you:
>
> ? ? ? ? ? ?some indentated code...
> ? ? ? ? ? ?prompt = '''quite long string %s quite long string
> ''' quite long string quite long string %s
> ''' quite %s long string quite long string
> '''
> ? ? ? ? ? ?some indentated code...
>
> That's why I wrote it's "useless in such cases."

@ Jan & Anny

No, of course putting a multi-line string inside a block does not
solve anything. What i meant for you to do is to declare the string
outside the block or as a module level Constant. i typically declare
all multi-line strings (ig for dialog prompts etc..) right after my
globals at the top of my modules or within an imported module like...

from thisModuleConstants import *




From sajmikins at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 17:02:51 2009
From: sajmikins at gmail.com (Simon Forman)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 14:02:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: unique-ifying a list
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 7, 4:53?pm, kj  wrote:
> Suppose that x is some list. ?To produce a version of the list with
> duplicate elements removed one could, I suppose, do this:
>
> ? ? x = list(set(x))
>
> but I expect that this will not preserve the original order of
> elements.
>
> I suppose that I could write something like
>
> def uniquify(items):
> ? ? seen = set()
> ? ? ret = []
> ? ? for i in items:
> ? ? ? ? if not i in seen:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ret.append(i)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? seen.add(i)
> ? ? return ret
>
> But this seems to me like such a commonly needed operation that I
> find it hard to believe one would need to resort to such self-rolled
> solutions. ?Isn't there some more standard (and hopefully more
> efficient, as in "C-coded"/built-in) approach?
>
> TIA!
>
> kynn


Unique items in a list, in the same order as in the list:

x = sorted(set(x), key=x.index)

;]


From davea at ieee.org  Sun Aug  9 17:15:47 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 17:15:47 -0400
Subject: Need help in configuration for TimedRotatingFileHandler
In-Reply-To: <7e6938ce-91c9-4b65-980f-46d76bf69220@d36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
References: <7e6938ce-91c9-4b65-980f-46d76bf69220@d36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A7F3C83.1040607@ieee.org>

Lokesh wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Need help in configure the TimedRotatingFileHandler from configuration
> file
>
> I have tried with the below code and ended up with the error, code is
> pasted below
> Error - IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'G:\\lok_sib\
> \logs\rotate_test'
> [loggers]
> keys=root,simpleExample
>
> [handlers]
> keys=consoleHandler,timedRotatingFileHandler
>
> [formatters]
> keys=simpleFormatter
>
> [logger_root]
> level=DEBUG
> handlers=consoleHandler
>
> [logger_simpleExample]
> level=DEBUG
> handlers=timedRotatingFileHandler
> qualname=simpleExample
> propagate=0
>
> [handler_consoleHandler]
> class=StreamHandler
> level=DEBUG
> formatter=simpleFormatter
> args=(sys.stdout,)
>
> [handler_timedRotatingFileHandler]
> class=handlers.TimedRotatingFileHandler
> level=DEBUG
> formatter=simpleFormatter
> args=("G:\lok_sib\logs\rotate_test", 'midnight', 1)
>
> [formatter_simpleFormatter]
> format=%(asctime)s - %(name)s - %(levelname)s - %(message)s
> datefmt='%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S'
>
>
> Thanks or your time
> Regards,
> Lokesh
>
>   
I don't see code there, I see lots of config data, presumably in an .ini 
file.   So I don't know how you're reading it in, and converting it to 
Python variables, but I know where I'd look, based on your error message.

The following line:

args=("G:\lok_sib\logs\rotate_test", 'midnight', 1)

seems to contain a Python string.  But there are unescaped backslashes 
within it.  You can get away with it in two cases, because \l  isn't a 
valid escape sequence.  But in the case of \r, it looks like a newline 
character.

Anyway, all three of those backslashes probably need to be doubled.

args=("G:\\lok_sib\\logs\\rotate_test", 'midnight', 1)

Two other cures that may work, depending on context:   change the backslashes to forward slashes, or use a raw string.

But as I said earlier, you don't show in any way what code is interpreting this line, so it's all just guesswork.

DaveA



From rt8396 at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 17:43:14 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 14:43:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bug or feature: double strings as one
References: 
	  
	<000674d6$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	 
	<7c15f7b0-49f2-4210-bc7a-e82941e9ddd9@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com> 
	
	<21131b4b-67d3-4ddf-b061-60327d670ca7@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6cdaacf6-a560-483e-a14d-26396173e3bd@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>


#-- el bueno --#
"hello i am a very long string that\
does not like newlines so please \
escape me, Thank you!"

#-- el malo --#
"hello i am a very long string that"+
"does not like newlines but i have no"+
"idea what to do with myself"

#-- el feo --#
"hello i am a very long string that"
"does not like newlines but i have no"
"idea what to do with myself"


just ideas people!


From mail at johannes-janssen.de  Sun Aug  9 18:06:44 2009
From: mail at johannes-janssen.de (Johannes Janssen)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 00:06:44 +0200
Subject: How to find out in which module an instance of a class is created?
Message-ID: <4A7F4874.8030008@johannes-janssen.de>

Hi
I like to know in which module an instance of a class was initialized. 
Using __module__ or __name__ within a class only gives me the module in 
which the class was defined not the instance of the class. Is there some 
(simple) way to do this?
For better understanding I'll give an example how I want to use this. 
Okay let's say I've got a module *foo,* in which class A is defined as 
the following:

 > class A(object):
 >     def __init__(self, mod):
 >         self.mod = mod

In a module called *bar* I do the following:

 > import foo
 > a = A(__name__)

Then a.mod should be "bar". But I don't like to pass the value of a.mod 
manually rather than having it default to the module the instance a of A 
was created in (here "bar").
Unfortunately something like this ...

 > class A(object):
 >     def __init__(self, mod=__name__):
 >         self.mod = mod

... won't work. In this case mod would always be "foo".

Kind regards
johannes


From gert.cuykens at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 18:22:17 2009
From: gert.cuykens at gmail.com (gert)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 15:22:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: resume upload wsgi script
References: <36993141-188c-4b13-8819-e60516d27437@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<7e80jlF2etv0kU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	<7e85i3F2fdc1eU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<9cd75067-8839-44dd-9b42-4ffb15488b66@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
	<7e8ildF2f1hcpU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <49e41062-9e0d-4c5e-beca-edb02d3ce6e8@e34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 9, 8:25?pm, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
> gert schrieb:
>
>
>
> > On Aug 9, 4:42 pm, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
> >> gert schrieb:
>
> >>> On Aug 9, 3:17 pm, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
> >>>> gert schrieb:
> >>>>> I working on a resume upload script and encountered the following
> >>>>> problems
> >>>>> sql: Could not decode to UTF-8 column 'SUBSTR(picture,?)' with text
> >>>>> '\ufffd\ufff
> >>>>> d\ufffd\ufffd?!Exif------------Ef1gL6KM7Ij5ae0gL6KM7cH2cH2GI3
> >>>>> Content-Disposition: form-data; name="Filename"
> >>>> You are treating a binary data column as if it were a string. That's
> >>>> bogus, you need to use a blob column.
> >>>> Also I wouldn't combine the uplodaded chunks until the full upload is
> >>>> finished - and even then only if I actually need the data.
> >>>> Diez
> >>> And the best solution would be to use TEXT instead or some sort of
> >>> SUBBIN that i do not know of in sqlite ?
> >> No, the best solution would be to use "BLOB", and no SUB*-stuff, but
> >> instead a 1:n-relation of chunks, that when the upload is finished you
> >> can easily combine in python to one large blob, storing that in the DB
> >> again.
>
> >> Diez
>
> > so one table of chunks
>
> > CREATE TABLE temp (
> > ? ? file_id ?VARCHAR(64),
> > ? ? chunK_id ?INTEGER,
> > ? ? chunk BLOB,
> > ? ? PRIMARY KEY(file_id,chunk_id)
> > );
>
> > SELECT chunk FROM temp WHERE file_id = 'file'
> > concatenating result in python
> > update blob
> > delete temp
>
> > How do I concatenate results that do not fit into memory ?
>
> By writing them into one file? If files were to large for your memory,
> all the substring-stuff wouldn't help either - the sqlite works in the
> same memory as your program...
>
> But how many gigabytes of uploads do you expect?
>

250KB :)
Its just HTTP1.1 has everything for making ftp like file transfers
possible.
When I write it to a file then I am back at square one because I still
need to load it completely to get it into a blob.
So there is no way to concatenate BLOB's without loading it completely
into memory ?


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 18:24:53 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 15:24:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Monkeypatching an object to become callable
References: <87hbwgu7xa.fsf@vostro.rath.org>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 9, 12:02?pm, Nikolaus Rath  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I want to monkeypatch an object so that it becomes callable, although
> originally it is not meant to be. (Yes, I think I do have a good reason
> to do so).
>
> But simply adding a __call__ attribute to the object apparently isn't
> enough, and I do not want to touch the class object (since it would
> modify all the instances):


Override the class's __call__, and program it to call a certain method
(say _instancecall) on the object.  Catch AttributeError and raise
TypeError so that it matches the behavior when no __call__ is defined.


def __call__(self,*args,**kwargs):
    try:
        func = self._instancecall
    except AttributeError:
        raise TypeError("'%s' object not callable" % self.__class__)
    return func(*args,**kwargs)


Note: don't call _instancecall inside the try clause; you don't want
to catch attribute errors raised inside the _instancecall method.

Then set _instancecall on any objects you want to be callable.


Carl Banks


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sun Aug  9 18:47:58 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 18:47:58 -0400
Subject: Surpressing Warnings
In-Reply-To: <4dc0cfea0908091321y54156d30sc0c4dc3a564eecab@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4dc0cfea0908091321y54156d30sc0c4dc3a564eecab@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908091547q6f63b0d1v2b70ffa0a9352b24@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Victor Subervi wrote:
> Hi:
> I get a ton of warnings like this from a program I run:
>
> Warning (from warnings module):
> ? File "C:\Python25\read.py", line 67
> ??? cursor.execute(sqlKWDrop)
> Warning: Unknown table 'judaism_128'
>
> How do I surpress them?

import warnings
with warnings.catch_warnings():
    warnings.simplefilter("ignore")
    cursor.execute(sqlKWDrop)
#repeat for every call that's causing warnings

or to just silence all warnings from anywhere:

import warnings
warnings.simplefilter("ignore")

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Sun Aug  9 19:26:00 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 01:26:00 +0200
Subject: Bug or feature: double strings as one
In-Reply-To: <6cdaacf6-a560-483e-a14d-26396173e3bd@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	
	<000674d6$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<7c15f7b0-49f2-4210-bc7a-e82941e9ddd9@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<21131b4b-67d3-4ddf-b061-60327d670ca7@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	<6cdaacf6-a560-483e-a14d-26396173e3bd@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

09-08-2009 o 23:43:14 r  wrote:

> #-- el bueno --#
> "hello i am a very long string that\
> does not like newlines so please \
> escape me, Thank you!"

You probably ment: """hello i am... [etc.]

Anyway... You're right that generally it's good idea to define
dialog prompts and such stuff separately rather that to hardcode
it, especially in big projects. Then certainly multiline
string literals are useful (though, if you need to get rid of
newlines, IMHO "el feo" method is more elegant and less error
prone than your "el bueno" [possible invisible space after '\']).

But there are plenty of other situations when it's better
(in practice) to have strings (even long) together with your
code, e.g. log information for debugging, or

Cheers,

*j


From lists at cheimes.de  Sun Aug  9 19:47:34 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 01:47:34 +0200
Subject: How to find out in which module an instance of a class is created?
In-Reply-To: <4A7F4874.8030008@johannes-janssen.de>
References: <4A7F4874.8030008@johannes-janssen.de>
Message-ID: <4A7F6016.2060408@cheimes.de>

Johannes Janssen wrote:
>  > class A(object):
>  >     def __init__(self, mod=__name__):
>  >         self.mod = mod
> 
> .... won't work. In this case mod would always be "foo".

You have to inspect the stack in order to get the module of the caller. 
The implementation of warnings.warn() gives you some examples how to get 
the module name.

Christian


From nagle at animats.com  Sun Aug  9 19:51:41 2009
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 16:51:41 -0700
Subject: Does python have the capability for driver development ? Maybe
	with ShedSkin
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4a7f6018$0$1642$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

MalC0de wrote:
> hello there, I've a question :
> I want to know does python have any capability for using Ring0 and
> kernel functions for driver and device development stuff .
> if there's such a feature it is very good, and if there something for
> this kind that you know please refer me to some reference and show me
> some snippet .
> 
> thanks
> 
> - Malc0de

     With the CPython interpretive system, it's not likely to work. But
using ShedSkin, which generates hard machine code, it might be possible.
The main problem is that Shed Skin uses a garbage-collected environment,
which few kernels have.

     Under QNX, which is a a real message-passing operating system with
all drivers in user space, it should be possible to write a driver in
Python.  There's Python for QNX.  It would probably be too slow to
be useful, though.

     I've actually written a handler for Baudot Teletype machines in
Python.  See

     https://sourceforge.net/projects/baudotrss/

Those machines are so slow (45.45 baud) that Python isn't the bottleneck.

					John Nagle


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sun Aug  9 19:51:48 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 00:51:48 +0100
Subject: Bug or feature: double strings as one
In-Reply-To: 
References: 			<000674d6$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>		<7c15f7b0-49f2-4210-bc7a-e82941e9ddd9@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>		<21131b4b-67d3-4ddf-b061-60327d670ca7@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>	<6cdaacf6-a560-483e-a14d-26396173e3bd@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4A7F6114.9020402@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Jan Kaliszewski wrote:
> 09-08-2009 o 23:43:14 r  wrote:
> 
>> #-- el bueno --#
>> "hello i am a very long string that\
>> does not like newlines so please \
>> escape me, Thank you!"
> 
> You probably ment: """hello i am... [etc.]
> 
> Anyway... You're right that generally it's good idea to define
> dialog prompts and such stuff separately rather that to hardcode
> it, especially in big projects. Then certainly multiline
> string literals are useful (though, if you need to get rid of
> newlines, IMHO "el feo" method is more elegant and less error
> prone than your "el bueno" [possible invisible space after '\']).
> 
> But there are plenty of other situations when it's better
> (in practice) to have strings (even long) together with your
> code, e.g. log information for debugging, or
> 
Here's an idea that you're probably going to hate: indented strings. :-)

A string prefixed with 'i' would be an 'indented' string. Leading space
and tab characters at the start of the string (just after the quote) or
the start of each line within a multiline string would be ignored.

 >>> """Line 1
        Line 2
"""
'Line 1\n       Line 2\n'
 >>> i"""Line 1
        Line 2
"""
'Line 1\nLine 2\n'

An additional feature could be to make '\ ' == ' ', perhaps only for
indented strings if you're worried that it could breaking existing code:

 >>> i"""Line 1
\       Line 2
"""
'Line 1\n       Line 2\n'

This would save you having to write '\x20'.


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Aug  9 20:06:18 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 10 Aug 2009 00:06:18 GMT
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 12:26:54 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:

> A friend of mine is just learning Python, and he's a bit tweaked about
> how unrecognized escape sequences are treated in Python.
...
> In any case, I think my friend should mellow out a bit, but we both
> consider this something of a wart. He's just more wart-phobic than I am.
> Is there any way that this behavior can be considered anything other
> than a wart? Other than the unconvincing claim that you can use this
> "feature" to save you a bit of typing sometimes when you actually want a
> backslash to be in your string?

I'd put it this way: a backslash is just an ordinary character, except 
when it needs to be special. So Python's behaviour is "treat backslash as 
a normal character, except for these exceptions" while the behaviour your 
friend wants is "treat a backslash as an error, except for these 
exceptions".

Why should a backslash in a string literal be an error?



-- 
Steven


From bouncyinc at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 20:42:26 2009
From: bouncyinc at gmail.com (John Haggerty)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 18:42:26 -0600
Subject: getting a "simple" program to work
Message-ID: 

ok so I know this is one of those "weird" requests but here me out.
So far I have an issue with a package for python called "libgmail" which is
basically a gmail interface for python to send messages remoetly.

Works ok except that the 'sendMessage' routine is bad.

This is included in the above attachment

it's used in a program called "ogss" which is an sms interface to gmail to
basically read gmail and then have a command done on a remote machine and
then spat out on the local machine to a log file that's opened and then
emailed back

problem is that the sending back routine fails.

Now I've found a program that will more or less do what is requied but it's
not really exactly what would be used in that it doesn't use the libgmail
routine.

So far the maintainer of both packages seem to be afk or not having their
routines fixed and so far debian/Unbuntu claim that the last version of the
package has been fixed :(

Is there a recommendatin of how to combine/alter so that ogss can transmit?
My main issue is that python is lesser known to me than Chinese (which I
also don't know).

My idea of this is to have a remote email timeclock program which could then
be scripted with any language or just "echo >>blah" if necessary.

Thanks in advance :)
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From bbxx789_05ss at yahoo.com  Sun Aug  9 20:55:26 2009
From: bbxx789_05ss at yahoo.com (7stud)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 17:55:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Monkeypatching an object to become callable
References: <87hbwgu7xa.fsf@vostro.rath.org>
Message-ID: <0aa46ece-64b9-4c28-b690-5ac5937ce3f2@f20g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 9, 1:02?pm, Nikolaus Rath  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I want to monkeypatch an object so that it becomes callable, although
> originally it is not meant to be. (Yes, I think I do have a good reason
> to do so).
>
> But simply adding a __call__ attribute to the object apparently isn't
> enough, and I do not want to touch the class object (since it would
> modify all the instances):
>
> >>> class foo(object):
>
> ... ? pass
> ...>>> t = foo()
> >>> def test():
>
> ... ? print 'bar'
> ...>>> t()
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? File "", line 1, in 
> TypeError: 'foo' object is not callable>>> t.__call__ = test
> >>> t()
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? File "", line 1, in 
> TypeError: 'foo' object is not callable>>> t.__call__()
>
> bar
>
> Is there an additional trick to get it to work?
>
> Best,
>
> ? ?-Nikolaus
>
> --
> ??Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a Banana.?
>
> ? PGP fingerprint: 5B93 61F8 4EA2 E279 ABF6 ?02CF A9AD B7F8 AE4E 425C


With an old-style class your code will work:

class A:
    pass

def test():
    print "test"

a = A()
a.__call__ = test

a()

--output:--
test


a2 = A()
a2()

--output:--

    a2()
AttributeError: A instance has no __call__ method



Another option is to use the *decorator pattern*.  The decorator
pattern can be used when you want to add additional methods and
attributes to an object, and you don't want to disturb the original
class:

class A(object):
    def __init__(self, x):
        self.x = x

    def sayhi(self):
        print "hi"


class Wrapper(object):
    def __init__(self, obj, func):
        self.obj = obj
        self.func = func

    def __call__(self, *args):
        return self.func(*args)

    def __getattr__(self, name):
        return object.__getattribute__(self.obj, name)


def test():
    print "test"

a = A(10)
w = Wrapper(a, test)
w()
print w.x
w.sayhi()

--output:--
test
10
hi



From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 20:56:55 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 17:56:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> Why should a backslash in a string literal be an error?

Because in Python, if my friend sees the string "foo\xbar\n", he has
no idea whether the "\x" is an escape sequence, or if it is just the
characters "\x", unless he looks it up in the manual, or tries it out
in the REPL, or what have you. My friend is adamant that it would be
better if he could just look at the string literal and know. He
doesn't want to be bothered to have to store stuff like that in his
head. He wants to be able to figure out programs just by looking at
them, to the maximum degree that that is feasible.

In comparison to Python, in C++, he can just look "foo\xbar\n" and
know that "\x" is a special character. (As long as it compiles without
warnings under g++.)

He's particularly annoyed too, that if he types "foo\xbar" at the
REPL, it echoes back as "foo\\xbar". He finds that to be some sort of
annoying DWIM feature, and if Python is going to have DWIM features,
then it should, for example, figure out what he means by "\" and not
bother him with a syntax error in that case.

Another reason that Python should not behave the way that it does, is
that it pegs Python into a corner where it can't add new escape
sequences in the future, as doing so will break existing code.
Generating a syntax error instead for unknown escape sequences would
allow for future extensions.

Now not to pick on Python unfairly, most other languages have similar
issues with escape sequences. (Except for the Bourne Shell and bash,
where "\x" always just means "x", no matter what character "x" happens
to be.) But I've been telling my friend for years to switch to Python
because of how wonderful and consistent Python is in comparison to
most other languages, and now he seems disappointed and seems to think
that Python is just more of the same.

Of course I think that he's overreacting a bit. My point of view is
that every language has *some* warts; Python just has a bit fewer than
most. It would have been nice, I should think, if this wart had been
"fixed" in Python 3, as I do consider it to be a minor wart.

|>ouglas



From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 21:34:14 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 18:34:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 9, 5:06?pm, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
> On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 12:26:54 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:
> > A friend of mine is just learning Python, and he's a bit tweaked about
> > how unrecognized escape sequences are treated in Python.
> ...
> > In any case, I think my friend should mellow out a bit, but we both
> > consider this something of a wart. He's just more wart-phobic than I am.
> > Is there any way that this behavior can be considered anything other
> > than a wart? Other than the unconvincing claim that you can use this
> > "feature" to save you a bit of typing sometimes when you actually want a
> > backslash to be in your string?
>
> I'd put it this way: a backslash is just an ordinary character, except
> when it needs to be special. So Python's behaviour is "treat backslash as
> a normal character, except for these exceptions" while the behaviour your
> friend wants is "treat a backslash as an error, except for these
> exceptions".
>
> Why should a backslash in a string literal be an error?

Because the behavior of \ in a string is context-dependent, which
means a reader can't know if \ is a literal character or escape
character without knowing the context, and it means an innocuous
change in context can cause a rather significant change in \.

IOW it's an error-prone mess.  It would be better if Python (like C)
treated \ consistently as an escape character.  (And in raw strings,
consistently as a literal.)

It's kind of a minor issue in terms of overall real-world importance,
but in terms of raw unPythonicness this might be the worst offense the
language makes.


Carl Banks


From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 22:42:56 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 19:42:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <1cf80e77-416b-43be-8491-0b7b7494aa92@s6g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 9, 8:06?pm, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> while the behaviour your
> friend wants is "treat a backslash as an error, except for these
> exceptions".

Besides, can't all error situations be described as, "treat the error
situation as an error, except for the exception of when the situation
isn't an error"???

The behavior my friend wants isn't any more exceptional than that!

|>ouglas


From mensanator at aol.com  Sun Aug  9 22:46:52 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 19:46:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: pybotwar-0.5
References: 
Message-ID: <3e9c5fcd-4047-4edd-b2ec-d892c77e3a69@f33g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 9, 3:26?pm, Lee Harr  wrote:
> pybotwar is a fun and educational game where players
> create computer programs to control simulated robots
> to compete in a battle arena.
>
> http://pybotwar.googlecode.com/

Why is the doc folder empty?

Shouldn't you supply some hint on how the games works
and at least a rudimentary guide to robot design?

What version to you expect that will be in? 1.0? 10.0?

Could you inform us when you have something worth looking
at and not before so we don't have to waste our time?


>
> pybotwar uses pybox2d for the physical simulation,
> and uses pygame and pygsear for the visualization.
>
> pybotwar is released under GPLv3.
>
> Changes in pybotwar-0.5:
> ? ? - added tournament mode
> ? ? - added explosive shells
> ? ? - robots are now damaged by colliding with walls or other robots
> ? ? - added damage sensor
> ? ? - added gyro sensor
> ? ? - added configurable cannon reload time
> ? ? - added robot statistics database
> ? ? - added time limit for robot startup/ initialization
> ? ? - health bar changes color below 30% health
> ? ? - fixed force/ torque possibly going over 100%
> ? ? - fixed problem with non-integer force/ torque values
> ? ? - each robot gets its own log file in test mode
> ? ? - send robot errors to log file
> ? ? - use optparse for cmd line options
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> More than messages?check out the rest of the Windows Live?.http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/



From xahlee at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 23:04:43 2009
From: xahlee at gmail.com (Xah Lee)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 20:04:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
Message-ID: <6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

The prob with python docs is with the python priests.

there are frequent posts about python doc's poor quality, and some
efforts to improve the doc (such as wiki or seggestions), about few
times a year (in so much as i've seen), the typical response is
pissing fight, with python priests to tell them not to start another
wiki, or ?you should apply in our church first and formulate a PEP
proposal first or kindly donate or otherwise fuckoff?, and so on.

i've wrote several articles about this issue, total time spend on this
is probably more than 2 months full-time work. See:

? Python Documentation Problems
  http://xahlee.org/perl-python/python_doc_index.html

just about each article above generates a thread of flames.

I also have re-wrote the entire python regex doc in 2005:

? Pyhton Regex Documentation: String Pattern Matching
  http://xahlee.org/perl-python/python_re-write/lib/module-re.html

there are some positive reviews, but most are drawn out by nay-sayers.

I often receive thank you emails for 2 particular articles, which are
most frequently google searched as indicated by my weblog:

? Python Doc Problem Example: gzip
  http://xahlee.org/perl-python/python_doc_gzip.html

? Python Doc Problem Example: sort()
  http://xahlee.org/perl-python/python_doc_sort.html

? Sorting in Python and Perl
  http://xahlee.org/perl-python/sort_list.html

See also:

? Language, Purity, Cult, and Deception
  http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/lang_purity_cult_deception.html

  Xah
? http://xahlee.org/

?

On Jul 31, 1:10 pm, kj  wrote:
> I'm pretty new to Python, and I like a lot overall, but I find the
> documentation for Python rather poor, overall.
>
> I'm sure that Python experts don't have this problem: they have
> internalized some good ways to access the documentation, are
> productive with it, and therefore have lost the ability to see why
> the Python documentations is deficient for beginners.  This explains
> why a suboptimal situation can persist like this: those who are
> most able fix it are also the least able to perceive it.
>
> I've heard similar complaints from other experienced programmers
> who are trying out Python for the first time: poor documentation.
>
> Here is an *entirely typical* example: on some Unix, try
>
> % pydoc urllib
>
> The displayed documentation mention the optional parameter "data"
> in practically every function listed (a few dozen of them).  This
> parameter is not documented *anywhere* on that page.  All that we
> are told is that its default value is always None.
>
> I'm sure that I can find a full description of this parameter if
> I fire up Google, and search online.  In fact, more likely than
> not, I'll find far more documentation than I want.  But my point
> is that a programmer should not need to do this.  The full
> documentation should be readily accessible directly through a few
> keystrokes.
>
> I would love to know how experienced Python programmers quickly
> zero in on the Python documentation they need.
>
> TIA!
>
> kynn



From spamgrinder.trylater at ggmail.com  Sun Aug  9 23:43:41 2009
From: spamgrinder.trylater at ggmail.com (AlF)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 20:43:41 -0700
Subject: reloading the module imported as 'from ... import ...'
Message-ID: <4A7F976D.7090600@ggmail.com>

Hi,

what is the best way to reload the module imported using 'from ... 
import ...'

Is following a way to do so?


 >>> from email.charset import Charset
 >>> reload(email.charset)
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "", line 1, in 
NameError: name 'email' is not defined
 >>>
 >>>
 >>> import email.charset
 >>> reload(email.charset)

References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1bcfbcd867677baf95b4ab8d685dbe44@preisshare.net>


Since you're talking about documentation, which is a part of python,
don't you think you should be discussing it on python-dev ?

That's where discussions about the documentation should be held.

haha - I'm just curious to see how long it will for them to
shut the discussion down. 

Before you do that, you should clearly work out in your own mind
how you think things need to improve. It's not good enough just
saying this or that is bad without having specific ideas on what
needs to change.

Good luck fellow sinner and blasphemer...

How dare you suggest that things could be improved...


On Sun, 9 Aug 2009 20:04:43 -0700 (PDT), Xah Lee  wrote:
> The prob with python docs is with the python priests.
> 
> there are frequent posts about python doc's poor quality, and some
> efforts to improve the doc (such as wiki or seggestions), about few
> times a year (in so much as i've seen), the typical response is
> pissing fight, with python priests to tell them not to start another
> wiki, or ?you should apply in our church first and formulate a PEP
> proposal first or kindly donate or otherwise fuckoff?, and so on.
> 
> i've wrote several articles about this issue, total time spend on this
> is probably more than 2 months full-time work. See:
> 
> ? Python Documentation Problems
>   http://xahlee.org/perl-python/python_doc_index.html
> 
> just about each article above generates a thread of flames.
> 
> I also have re-wrote the entire python regex doc in 2005:
> 
> ? Pyhton Regex Documentation: String Pattern Matching
>   http://xahlee.org/perl-python/python_re-write/lib/module-re.html
> 
> there are some positive reviews, but most are drawn out by nay-sayers.
> 
> I often receive thank you emails for 2 particular articles, which are
> most frequently google searched as indicated by my weblog:
> 
> ? Python Doc Problem Example: gzip
>   http://xahlee.org/perl-python/python_doc_gzip.html
> 
> ? Python Doc Problem Example: sort()
>   http://xahlee.org/perl-python/python_doc_sort.html
> 
> ? Sorting in Python and Perl
>   http://xahlee.org/perl-python/sort_list.html
> 
> See also:
> 
> ? Language, Purity, Cult, and Deception
>   http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/lang_purity_cult_deception.html
> 
>   Xah
> ? http://xahlee.org/
> 
> ?
> 
> On Jul 31, 1:10 pm, kj  wrote:
>> I'm pretty new to Python, and I like a lot overall, but I find the
>> documentation for Python rather poor, overall.
>>
>> I'm sure that Python experts don't have this problem: they have
>> internalized some good ways to access the documentation, are
>> productive with it, and therefore have lost the ability to see why
>> the Python documentations is deficient for beginners.  This explains
>> why a suboptimal situation can persist like this: those who are
>> most able fix it are also the least able to perceive it.
>>
>> I've heard similar complaints from other experienced programmers
>> who are trying out Python for the first time: poor documentation.
>>
>> Here is an *entirely typical* example: on some Unix, try
>>
>> % pydoc urllib
>>
>> The displayed documentation mention the optional parameter "data"
>> in practically every function listed (a few dozen of them).  This
>> parameter is not documented *anywhere* on that page.  All that we
>> are told is that its default value is always None.
>>
>> I'm sure that I can find a full description of this parameter if
>> I fire up Google, and search online.  In fact, more likely than
>> not, I'll find far more documentation than I want.  But my point
>> is that a programmer should not need to do this.  The full
>> documentation should be readily accessible directly through a few
>> keystrokes.
>>
>> I would love to know how experienced Python programmers quickly
>> zero in on the Python documentation they need.
>>
>> TIA!
>>
>> kynn


From lokeshmaremalla at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 01:07:37 2009
From: lokeshmaremalla at gmail.com (Lokesh Maremalla)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 10:37:37 +0530
Subject: Need help in configuration for TimedRotatingFileHandler
In-Reply-To: <4A7F3C83.1040607@ieee.org>
References: <7e6938ce-91c9-4b65-980f-46d76bf69220@d36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<4A7F3C83.1040607@ieee.org>
Message-ID: 

Hi Dave,

I have modified the code as mentioned in reply and is working fine. But
still i am facing an issue and the issue is described below.

In configuration file i have coded the TimedRotatingFileHandler like
args=("G:\\lok_sib\\logs\\rotate_test", 'D', 1)

step1: Executed the code and got the log file with the information
step2: Modified the system time from current day to next day
step3: End up with the error and the error is pasted below

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "c:\Python25\lib\logging\handlers.py", line 74, in emit
    self.doRollover()
  File "c:\Python25\lib\logging\handlers.py", line 274, in doRollover
    os.rename(self.baseFilename, dfn)
WindowsError: [Error 32] The process cannot access the file because it is
being used by another process

Python version - 2.5.4

Thanks for your time.

Regards,
Lokesh


On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 2:45 AM, Dave Angel  wrote:

> Lokesh wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Need help in configure the TimedRotatingFileHandler from configuration
>> file
>>
>> I have tried with the below code and ended up with the error, code is
>> pasted below
>> Error - IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'G:\\lok_sib\
>> \logs\rotate_test'
>> [loggers]
>> keys=root,simpleExample
>>
>> [handlers]
>> keys=consoleHandler,timedRotatingFileHandler
>>
>> [formatters]
>> keys=simpleFormatter
>>
>> [logger_root]
>> level=DEBUG
>> handlers=consoleHandler
>>
>> [logger_simpleExample]
>> level=DEBUG
>> handlers=timedRotatingFileHandler
>> qualname=simpleExample
>> propagate=0
>>
>> [handler_consoleHandler]
>> class=StreamHandler
>> level=DEBUG
>> formatter=simpleFormatter
>> args=(sys.stdout,)
>>
>> [handler_timedRotatingFileHandler]
>> class=handlers.TimedRotatingFileHandler
>> level=DEBUG
>> formatter=simpleFormatter
>> args=("G:\lok_sib\logs\rotate_test", 'midnight', 1)
>>
>> [formatter_simpleFormatter]
>> format=%(asctime)s - %(name)s - %(levelname)s - %(message)s
>> datefmt='%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S'
>>
>>
>> Thanks or your time
>> Regards,
>> Lokesh
>>
>>
>>
> I don't see code there, I see lots of config data, presumably in an .ini
> file.   So I don't know how you're reading it in, and converting it to
> Python variables, but I know where I'd look, based on your error message.
>
> The following line:
>
> args=("G:\lok_sib\logs\rotate_test", 'midnight', 1)
>
> seems to contain a Python string.  But there are unescaped backslashes
> within it.  You can get away with it in two cases, because \l  isn't a valid
> escape sequence.  But in the case of \r, it looks like a newline character.
>
> Anyway, all three of those backslashes probably need to be doubled.
>
> args=("G:\\lok_sib\\logs\\rotate_test", 'midnight', 1)
>
> Two other cures that may work, depending on context:   change the
> backslashes to forward slashes, or use a raw string.
>
> But as I said earlier, you don't show in any way what code is interpreting
> this line, so it's all just guesswork.
>
> DaveA
>
>


-- 
Thanks & Regards,
Lokesh.
lokeshmaremalla at gmail.com
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From lokeshmaremalla at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 01:21:09 2009
From: lokeshmaremalla at gmail.com (Lokesh Maremalla)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 10:51:09 +0530
Subject: Need help in configuration for TimedRotatingFileHandler
In-Reply-To: 
References: <7e6938ce-91c9-4b65-980f-46d76bf69220@d36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<4A7F3C83.1040607@ieee.org>
	
Message-ID: 

Hi Dave,

I forgot to provide the information about the code how I am using logger
Here is the complete scenario

I have modified the code as mentioned in reply and is working fine. But
still I am facing an issue and the issue is described below.

In configuration file i have coded the TimedRotatingFileHandler like
args=("G:\\lok_sib\\logs\\rotate_test", 'D', 1)

Code:
mlogger = logging.getLogger("simpleExample")
def a_view(request):
    mlogger.debug("a_view called")
    if request.method== "POST" :
        mlogger.debug("post function")
    else:
        mlogger.debug("serve function")

Execution:
step1: Executed the code and got the log file with the information
step2: Modified the system time from current day to next day
step3: End up with the error and the error is pasted below

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "c:\Python25\lib\logging\handlers.py", line 74, in emit
    self.doRollover()
  File "c:\Python25\lib\logging\handlers.py", line 274, in doRollover
    os.rename(self.baseFilename, dfn)
WindowsError: [Error 32] The process cannot access the file because it is
being used by another process

Python version - 2.5.4

I guess my output should be like this for the next day
-a new log file rotate_test. should generate in the respective
location

Please correct me if I am wrong.


Thanks for your time.

Regards,
Lokesh
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From timr at probo.com  Mon Aug 10 01:31:27 2009
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 22:31:27 -0700
Subject: Using Python to automate builds
References: <84d9ae10-3aee-40a8-97ac-05799da0de64@f18g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Kosta  wrote:
>
>
>What I would like to do, is to open a cmd window, and start a Python
>script.  This script would then (based upon input arguments), build
>different flavors of the driver (fre, chk, x86, x64) and do some post
>processing (create cat files, sign, etc.).
>
>I was hoping to take advantage as much as possible of exisiting
>infrastructure from the WDK.  I am able to call setenv.bat and provide
>all the input parameters.  One of the things setenv.bat does is change
>the path environment variable.  However, this is not captured by
>Python.  I could duplicate the functionality, but I'd rather not.  Is
>there a way to capture all enviroment variable changes being made by a
>batch file from Python?

My suggestion is that you just call "setenv" again every time you start a
new process.  My "build everything" batch file has a series of sections
something like this:

  setlocal
  set LAST=%CD%
  call %DDK%\bin\setenv %DDK% chk WXP no_oacr
  @echo on
  set USERNAME=timr
  cd %LAST%
  build %BLD%
  endlocal

  setlocal
  set LAST=%CD%
  call %DDK%\bin\setenv %DDK% fre WXP no_oacr
  @echo on
  set USERNAME=timr
  cd %LAST%
  build %BLD%
  endlocal

  setlocal
  set LAST=%CD%
  call %DDK%\bin\setenv %DDK% chk WLH x64 no_oacr
  @echo on
  set USERNAME=timr
  cd %LAST%
  build %BLD%
  endlocal
-- 
Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Aug 10 01:32:36 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 10 Aug 2009 05:32:36 GMT
Subject: reloading the module imported as 'from ... import ...'
References: <4A7F976D.7090600@ggmail.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 20:43:41 -0700, AlF wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> what is the best way to reload the module imported using 'from ...
> import ...'


Have you tried "from ... import ..." again?



-- 
Steven


From timr at probo.com  Mon Aug 10 01:34:41 2009
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 22:34:41 -0700
Subject: Pywin32 @ windows 7
References: 
Message-ID: 

"Algirdas Brazas"  wrote:
>
>Did anyone manage to get windows extensions installet on windows 7 64 bit? As 
>far as I try I get only "Setup program invalid or damaged".

I've been running 32-bit Python 2.5 and the 32-bit versions of PyWin32 and
wxPython on Windows 7 64-bit for many months.  No problems.

I have not tried the 64-bit Python and PyWin32 builds yet.
-- 
Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From timr at probo.com  Mon Aug 10 01:42:45 2009
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 22:42:45 -0700
Subject: Windows 7 : any problems installing or running Python ?
References: 
Message-ID: 

Dave WB3DWE wrote:
>
>Anybody tried it ? 
>Is anything broken, ie is the whole shootin' match good to go ?
>I'm esp interested in WConio for 3.0/3.1 which I use heavily.

I've been running the 32-bit builds of Python 2.5, PyWin32, and wxPython on
Windows 7 64-bit for many months.  No problems at all.

I hated Vista; I would only run it if my clients insisted on having their
drivers tested on it.  Vista SP1 was somewhat better, but I don't mind
Windows 7 at all.  I might even upgrade my primary development machine from
XP.  A number of the usually cranky driver developers have expressed the
same opinion.  Microsoft might actually have a winner here.
-- 
Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From spamgrinder.trylater at ggmail.com  Mon Aug 10 01:48:31 2009
From: spamgrinder.trylater at ggmail.com (AlF)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 22:48:31 -0700
Subject: reloading the module imported as 'from ... import ...'
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4A7F976D.7090600@ggmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <4A7FB4AF.7060107@ggmail.com>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 20:43:41 -0700, AlF wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>>
>> what is the best way to reload the module imported using 'from ...
>> import ...'
> 
> 
> Have you tried "from ... import ..." again?
> 

I have not because of an assumption that "import" imports the module 
just once. In fact this still works that way:

here is a terminal 1:

$ cat > a.py
a=1
$ cat > a.py
a=2
$


and terminal 2:

 >>> from a import a
 >>> a
1
 >>> a
1
 >>> from a import a
 >>> a
1
 >>>

In spite of changing a.py in fly, the imported a is still 1




From julien.chevalier at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 01:58:31 2009
From: julien.chevalier at gmail.com (Kiki)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 22:58:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Client/Server based on SocketServer and Windows
References: 
	
Message-ID: <979ad93c-0257-4add-8fb7-b56e253e3fb7@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>

Thank you Dennis

I'm using 2 differents editor, which may be the cause of such a mess
in the indentation.

I must admitt that I lazily rely on those (not so bad indeed) editors.

"If indentation whas bad they would have tell me"

Too bad am i

Won't post misindeted code anymore.


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Aug 10 02:03:05 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 10 Aug 2009 06:03:05 GMT
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 17:56:55 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
>> Why should a backslash in a string literal be an error?
> 
> Because in Python, if my friend sees the string "foo\xbar\n", he has no
> idea whether the "\x" is an escape sequence, or if it is just the
> characters "\x", unless he looks it up in the manual, or tries it out in
> the REPL, or what have you. 

Fair enough, but isn't that just another way of saying that if you look 
at a piece of code and don't know what it does, you don't know what it 
does unless you look it up or try it out?


> My friend is adamant that it would be better
> if he could just look at the string literal and know. He doesn't want to
> be bothered to have to store stuff like that in his head. He wants to be
> able to figure out programs just by looking at them, to the maximum
> degree that that is feasible.

I actually sympathize strongly with that attitude. But, honestly, your 
friend is a programmer (or at least pretends to be one *wink*). You can't 
be a programmer without memorizing stuff: syntax, function calls, modules 
to import, quoting rules, blah blah blah. Take C as an example -- there's 
absolutely nothing about () that says "group expressions or call a 
function" and {} that says "group a code block". You just have to 
memorize it. If you don't know what a backslash escape is going to do, 
why would you use it? I'm sure your friend isn't in the habit of randomly 
adding backslashes to strings just to see whether it will still compile.

This is especially important when reading (as opposed to writing) code. 
You read somebody else's code, and see "foo\xbar\n". Let's say you know 
it compiles without warning. Big deal -- you don't know what the escape 
codes do unless you've memorized them. What does \n resolve to? chr(13) 
or chr(97) or chr(0)? Who knows? 

Unless you know the rules, you have no idea what is in the string. 
Allowing \y to resolve to a literal backslash followed by y doesn't 
change that. All it means is that some \c combinations return a single 
character, and some return two.



> In comparison to Python, in C++, he can just look "foo\xbar\n" and know
> that "\x" is a special character. (As long as it compiles without
> warnings under g++.)

So what you mean is, he can just look at "foo\xbar\n" AND COMPILE IT 
USING g++, and know whether or not \x is a special character.

[sarcasm] Gosh. That's an enormous difference from Python, where you have 
to print the string at the REPL to know what it does. [/sarcasm]

Aside:
\x isn't a special character:

>>> "\x"
ValueError: invalid \x escape

However, \xba is:

>>> "\xba"
'\xba'
>>> len("\xba")
1
>>> ord("\xba")
186



> He's particularly annoyed too, that if he types "foo\xbar" at the REPL,
> it echoes back as "foo\\xbar". He finds that to be some sort of annoying
> DWIM feature, and if Python is going to have DWIM features, then it
> should, for example, figure out what he means by "\" and not bother him
> with a syntax error in that case.

Now your friend is confused. This is a good thing. Any backslash you see 
in Python's default string output is *always* an escape:

>>> "a string with a 'proper' escape \t (tab)"
"a string with a 'proper' escape \t (tab)"
>>> "a string with an 'improper' escape \y (backslash-y)"
"a string with an 'improper' escape \\y (backslash-y)"

The REPL is actually doing him a favour. It always escapes backslashes, 
so there is no ambiguity. A backslash is displayed as \\, any other \c is 
a special character.


> Of course I think that he's overreacting a bit. 

:)


> My point of view is that
> every language has *some* warts; Python just has a bit fewer than most.
> It would have been nice, I should think, if this wart had been "fixed"
> in Python 3, as I do consider it to be a minor wart.

And if anyone had cared enough to raise it a couple of years back, it 
possibly might have been.


-- 
Steven


From nagle at animats.com  Mon Aug 10 02:03:14 2009
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 23:03:14 -0700
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
In-Reply-To: 
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <4a7fb72d$0$1589$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

Carl Banks wrote:
> IOW it's an error-prone mess.  It would be better if Python (like C)
> treated \ consistently as an escape character.  (And in raw strings,
> consistently as a literal.)

    Agreed.  For one thing, if another escape character ever has to be
added to the language, that may change the semantics of previously
correct strings.  If "\" followed by a non-special character is treated
as an error, that doesn't happen.

					John Nagle


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Aug 10 02:10:53 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 10 Aug 2009 06:10:53 GMT
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 18:34:14 -0700, Carl Banks wrote:

>> Why should a backslash in a string literal be an error?
> 
> Because the behavior of \ in a string is context-dependent, which means
> a reader can't know if \ is a literal character or escape character
> without knowing the context, and it means an innocuous change in context
> can cause a rather significant change in \.

*Any* change in context is significant with escapes.

"this \nhas two lines"

If you change the \n to a \t you get a significant difference. If you 
change the \n to a \y you get a significant difference. Why is the first 
one acceptable but the second not?


> IOW it's an error-prone mess.

I've never had any errors caused by this. I've never seen anyone write to 
this newsgroup confused over escape behaviour, or asking for help with an 
error caused by it, and until this thread, never seen anyone complain 
about it either.

Excuse my cynicism, but I believe that you are using "error-prone" to 
mean "I don't like this behaviour" rather than "it causes lots of errors".



-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Aug 10 02:21:36 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 10 Aug 2009 06:21:36 GMT
Subject: reloading the module imported as 'from ... import ...'
References: <4A7F976D.7090600@ggmail.com>
	
	<4A7FB4AF.7060107@ggmail.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 22:48:31 -0700, AlF wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 20:43:41 -0700, AlF wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> what is the best way to reload the module imported using 'from ...
>>> import ...'
>> 
>> 
>> Have you tried "from ... import ..." again?
>> 
>> 
> I have not because of an assumption that "import" imports the module
> just once. 

Ah, of course the cached module will still reflect the older version. 
Sorry, I was thinking about solving a different problem:

- In module "main" call "from A import a"
- Some other part of your code modifies A.a
- You want to have the imported a be refreshed with the value of A.a


No, my suggestion won't help in this situation.

Instead, you can:

(1) Delete the module from sys.modules, forcing Python to re-read it from 
disk:

import sys
del sys.modules['A']
from A import a

or

(2) Recognize that Python doesn't specifically support what you're trying 
to do. reload() is a convenience function, and you probably should stick 
to the "import A; A.a" form.


-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Aug 10 02:23:20 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 10 Aug 2009 06:23:20 GMT
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<4a7fb72d$0$1589$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 23:03:14 -0700, John Nagle wrote:

> if another escape character ever has to be
> added to the language, that may change the semantics of previously
> correct strings.

And that's the only argument in favour of prohibiting non-special 
backslash sequences I've seen yet that is even close to convincing.


-- 
Steven


From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 03:32:30 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 00:32:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <3611ca55-79a6-4336-9041-07d0893789f7@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 10, 2:03 am, Steven D'Aprano
 wrote:

> On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 17:56:55 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:

> > Because in Python, if my friend sees the string "foo\xbar\n", he has no
> > idea whether the "\x" is an escape sequence, or if it is just the
> > characters "\x", unless he looks it up in the manual, or tries it out in
> > the REPL, or what have you.
>
> Fair enough, but isn't that just another way of saying that if you look
> at a piece of code and don't know what it does, you don't know what it
> does unless you look it up or try it out?

Not really. It's more like saying that easy things should be easy, and
hard things should possible. But in this case, Python is making
something that should be really easy, a bit harder and more error
prone than it should be.

In C++, if I know that the code I'm looking at compiles, then I never
need worry that I've misinterpreted what a string literal means. At
least not if it doesn't have any escape characters in it that I'm not
familiar with. But in Python, if I see, "\f\o\o\b\a\z", I'm not really
sure what I'm seeing, as I surely don't have committed to memory some
of the more obscure escape sequences. If I saw this in C++, and I knew
that it was in code that compiled, then I'd at least know that there
are some strange escape codes that I have to look up. Unlike with
Python, it would never be the case in C++ code that the programmer who
wrote the code was just too lazy to type in "\\f\\o\\o\\b\\a\\z"
instead.

> > My friend is adamant that it would be better
> > if he could just look at the string literal and know. He doesn't want to
> > be bothered to have to store stuff like that in his head. He wants to be
> > able to figure out programs just by looking at them, to the maximum
> > degree that that is feasible.
>
> I actually sympathize strongly with that attitude. But, honestly, your
> friend is a programmer (or at least pretends to be one *wink*).

Actually, he's probably written more code than you, me, and ten other
random decent programmers put together. As he can slap out massive
amounts of code very quickly, he'd prefer not to have crap getting in
his way. In the time it takes him to look something up, he might have
written another page of code.

He's perfectly capable of dealing with crap, as years of writing large
programs in Perl and PHP quickly proves, but his whole reason for
learning Python, I take it, is so that he will be bothered with less
crap and therefore write code even faster.

> You can't be a programmer without memorizing stuff: syntax, function
> calls, modules to import, quoting rules, blah blah blah. Take C as
> an example -- there's absolutely nothing about () that says "group
> expressions or call a function" and {} that says "group a code
> block".

I don't really think that this is a good analogy. It's like the
difference between remembering rules of grammar and remembering
English spelling. As a kid, I was the best in my school at grammar,
and one of the worst at speling.

> You just have to memorize it. If you don't know what a backslash
> escape is going to do, why would you use it?

(1) You're looking at code that someone else wrote, or (2) you forget
to type "\\" instead of "\" in your code (or get lazy sometimes), as
that is okay most of the time, and you inadvertently get a subtle bug.

> This is especially important when reading (as opposed to writing) code.
> You read somebody else's code, and see "foo\xbar\n". Let's say you know
> it compiles without warning. Big deal -- you don't know what the escape
> codes do unless you've memorized them. What does \n resolve to? chr(13)
> or chr(97) or chr(0)? Who knows?

It *is* a big deal. Or at least a non-trivial deal. It means that you
can tell just by looking at the code that there are funny characters
in the string, and not just a backslashes. You don't have to go
running for the manual every time you see code with backslashes, where
the upshot might be that the programmer was merely saving themselves
some typing.

> > In comparison to Python, in C++, he can just look "foo\xbar\n" and know
> > that "\x" is a special character. (As long as it compiles without
> > warnings under g++.)
>
> So what you mean is, he can just look at "foo\xbar\n" AND COMPILE IT
> USING g++, and know whether or not \x is a special character.

I'm not sure that your comments are paying due diligence to full
life-cycle software development issues that involve multiple
programmers (or even just your own program that you wrote a year ago,
and you don't remember all the details of what you did) combined with
maintaining and modifying existing code, etc.

> Aside:
> \x isn't a special character:
>
> >>> "\x"
>
> ValueError: invalid \x escape

I think that this all just goes to prove my friend's point! Here I've
been programming in Python for more than a decade (not full time, mind
you, as I also program in other languages, like C++), and even I
didn't know that "\xba" was an escape sequence, and I inadvertently
introduced a subtle bug into my argument because it just so happens
that the first two characters of "bar" are legal hexadecimal! If I did
the very same thing in a real program, it might take me a lot of time
to track down the bug.

Also, it seems that Python is being inconsistent here. Python knows
that
the string "\x" doesn't contain a full escape sequence, so why doesn't
it
treat the string "\x" the same way that it treats the string "\z"?
After all, if you're a Python programmer, you should know that "\x"
doesn't contain a complete escape sequence, and therefore, you would
not be surprised if Python were so kind as to just leave it alone,
rather than raising a ValueError.

I.e., "\z" is not a legal escape sequence, so it gets left as
"\\z". "\x" is not a legal escape sequence. Shouldn't it also get left
as "\\x"?

> > He's particularly annoyed too, that if he types "foo\xbar" at the REPL,
> > it echoes back as "foo\\xbar". He finds that to be some sort of annoying
> > DWIM feature, and if Python is going to have DWIM features, then it
> > should, for example, figure out what he means by "\" and not bother him
> > with a syntax error in that case.
>
> Now your friend is confused. This is a good thing. Any backslash you see
> in Python's default string output is *always* an escape:

Well, I think he's more annoyed that if Python is going to be so
helpful as to put in the missing "\" for you in "foo\zbar", then it
should put in the missing "\" for you in "\". He considers this to be
an
inconsistency.

Me, I'd never, ever, EVER want a language to special-case something at
the end of a string, but I can see that from his new-to-Python
perspective, Python seems to be DWIMing in one place and not the
other, and he thinks that it should either do no DWIMing at all, or
consistently DWIM. To not be consistent in this regard is "inelegant",
says he.

And I can see his point that allowing "foo\zbar" and "foo\\zbar" to be
synonymous is a form of DWIMing.

> > My point of view is that every language has *some* warts; Python
> > just has a bit fewer than most.  It would have been nice, I should
> > think, if this wart had been "fixed" in Python 3, as I do consider
> > it to be a minor wart.

> And if anyone had cared enough to raise it a couple of years back, it
> possibly might have been.

So, now if only my friend had learned Python years ago, when I told
him to, he possibly might be happy with Python by now!

|>ouglas


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 03:37:33 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 00:37:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 9, 11:10?pm, Steven D'Aprano
 wrote:
> On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 18:34:14 -0700, Carl Banks wrote:
> >> Why should a backslash in a string literal be an error?
>
> > Because the behavior of \ in a string is context-dependent, which means
> > a reader can't know if \ is a literal character or escape character
> > without knowing the context, and it means an innocuous change in context
> > can cause a rather significant change in \.
>
> *Any* change in context is significant with escapes.
>
> "this \nhas two lines"
>
> If you change the \n to a \t you get a significant difference. If you
> change the \n to a \y you get a significant difference. Why is the first
> one acceptable but the second not?

Because when you change \n to \t, you've haven't changed the meaning
of the \ character; but when you change \n to \y, you have, and you
did so without even touching the backslash.


> > IOW it's an error-prone mess.
>
> I've never had any errors caused by this.

Thank you for your anecdotal evidence.  Here's mine: This has gotten
me at least twice, and a compiler complaint would have reduced my bug-
hunting time from tens of minutes to ones of seconds.  [Aside: it was
when I was using Python on Windows for the first time]


> I've never seen anyone write to
> this newsgroup confused over escape behaviour, or asking for help with an
> error caused by it, and until this thread, never seen anyone complain
> about it either.

More anecdotal evidence.  Here's mine: I have.


> Excuse my cynicism, but I believe that you are using "error-prone" to
> mean "I don't like this behaviour" rather than "it causes lots of errors".

No, I'm using error-prone to mean error-prone.

Someone (obviously not you because you're have perfect knowledge of
the language and 100% situation awareness at all times) might have a
string like "abcd\stuv"  and change it to "abcd\tuvw" without even
thinking about the fact that the s comes after the backslash.

Worst of all: they might not even notice the error, because the repr
of this string is:

'abcd\tuwv'

They might not notice that the backslash is single, because (unlike
you) mortal fallible human beings don't always register tiny details
like a backslash being single when it should be double.

Point is, this is a very bad inconsistency.  It makes the behavior of
\ impossible to learn by analogy, now you have to memorize a list of
situations where it behaves one way or another.


Carl Banks


From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 03:57:18 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 00:57:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <246b6a1d-7e83-4ad3-9978-c2a55b884a6c@o13g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 10, 2:10?am, Steven D'Aprano

> I've never had any errors caused by this.

But you've seen an error caused by this, in this very discussion.
I.e., "foo\xbar".

"\xba" isn't an escape sequence in any other language that I've used,
which is one reason I made this error... Oh, wait a minute -- it *is*
an escape sequence in JavaScript. But in JavaScript, while "\xba" is a
special character, "\xb" is synonymous with "xb".

The fact that every language seems to treat these things similarly but
differently, is yet another reason why they should just be treated
utterly consistently by all of the languages: I.e., escape sequences
that don't have a special meaning should be an error!

> I've never seen anyone write to
> this newsgroup confused over escape behaviour,

My friend objects strongly the claim that he is "confused" by it, so I
guess you are right that no one is confused. He just thinks that it
violates the beautiful sense of aesthetics that he was sworn over and
over again Python to have.

But aesthetics is a non-negligible issue with practical ramifications.
(Not that anything can be done about this wart at this point,
however.)

> or asking for help with an error caused by it, and until
> this thread, never seen anyone complain about it either.

Oh, this bothered me too when I first learned Python, and I thought it
was stupid. It just didn't bother me enough to complain publicly.

Besides, the vast majority of Python noobs don't come here, despite
appearance sometimes, and by the time most people get here, they've
probably got bigger fish to fry.

|>ouglas




From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Mon Aug 10 04:08:32 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 10:08:32 +0200
Subject: Monkeypatching an object to become callable
In-Reply-To: <0aa46ece-64b9-4c28-b690-5ac5937ce3f2@f20g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
References: <87hbwgu7xa.fsf@vostro.rath.org>
	<0aa46ece-64b9-4c28-b690-5ac5937ce3f2@f20g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a7fd55e$0$32765$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

7stud a ?crit :
(snip)
> class Wrapper(object):
>     def __init__(self, obj, func):
>         self.obj = obj
>         self.func = func
> 
>     def __call__(self, *args):
>         return self.func(*args)
> 
>     def __getattr__(self, name):
>         return object.__getattribute__(self.obj, name)

This should be

           return getattr(self.obj, name)

directly calling object.__getattribute__ might skip redefinition of 
__getattribute__ in self.obj.__class__ or it's mro.



From frederic.leger at contactoffice.net  Mon Aug 10 04:35:54 2009
From: frederic.leger at contactoffice.net (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Fr=E9d=E9ric_L=E9ger?=)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 10:35:54 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: install tarball package Python on Debian, necessary modules not found
Message-ID: <16266394.6699.1249893354154.JavaMail.root@orville>

I use Debian Lenny and I tried to install the tarball packaging of the lastest python realease (http://www.python.org/download/, release 3.1). After read README file I launch standard Makefile commands. But at the end of "make" command, I have got this message:

"...
Python build finished, but the necessary bits to build these modules were not found:
_curses            _curses_panel      _dbm
_gdbm              _hashlib           _sqlite3
_ssl               _tkinter           bz2
readline
To find the necessary bits, look in setup.py in detect_modules() for the module's name.
..."

Solution:

So I installed these Debian packages to correct the problem:

_curses, _curses_panel = libncurses-dev
zlib = libbz2-dev
bz2 = libzip-dev
_dbm, _gdbm = libgdbm-dev 
_hashlib, _ssl = libssl-dev 
_sqlite3 = libsqlite3-dev 
_tkinter = tk8.4-dev 
readline = libreadline5-dev 

I use on command line "apt-get install libncurses-dev libbz2-dev ..."
After that, I retry to compile python "make clean ; make ...". And all modules are good.

Good work with Python 3.1 ;)


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Aug 10 04:37:48 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 10 Aug 2009 08:37:48 GMT
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 00:37:33 -0700, Carl Banks wrote:

> On Aug 9, 11:10?pm, Steven D'Aprano
>  wrote:
>> On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 18:34:14 -0700, Carl Banks wrote:
>> >> Why should a backslash in a string literal be an error?
>>
>> > Because the behavior of \ in a string is context-dependent, which
>> > means a reader can't know if \ is a literal character or escape
>> > character without knowing the context, and it means an innocuous
>> > change in context can cause a rather significant change in \.
>>
>> *Any* change in context is significant with escapes.
>>
>> "this \nhas two lines"
>>
>> If you change the \n to a \t you get a significant difference. If you
>> change the \n to a \y you get a significant difference. Why is the
>> first one acceptable but the second not?
> 
> Because when you change \n to \t, you've haven't changed the meaning of
> the \ character; 

I assume you mean the \ character in the literal, not the (non-existent) 
\ character in the string.


> but when you change \n to \y, you have, and you did so
> without even touching the backslash.

Not at all.

'\n' maps to the string chr(10).
'\y' maps to the string chr(92) + chr(121).

In both cases the backslash in the literal have the same meaning: grab 
the next token (usually a single character, but not always), look it up 
in a mapping somewhere, and insert the result in the string object being 
built.

(I don't know if the *implementation* is precisely as described, but 
that's irrelevant. It's still functionally a mapping.) 



>> > IOW it's an error-prone mess.
>>
>> I've never had any errors caused by this.
> 
> Thank you for your anecdotal evidence.  Here's mine: This has gotten me
> at least twice, and a compiler complaint would have reduced my bug-
> hunting time from tens of minutes to ones of seconds.  [Aside: it was
> when I was using Python on Windows for the first time]

Okay, that's twice in, how many years have you been programming?

I've mistyped "xrange" as "xrnage" two or three times. Does that make 
xrange() "an error-prone mess" too? Probably not. Why is my mistake my 
mistake, but your mistake the language's fault?


[...]

Oh, wait, no, I tell I lie -- I *have* seen people reporting "bugs" here 
caused by backslashes. They're invariably Windows programmers writing 
pathnames using backslashes, so I'll give you that one: if you don't know 
that Python treats backslashes as special in string literals, you will 
screw up your Windows pathnames.

Interestingly, the problem there is not that \y resolves to literal 
backslash followed by y, but that \t DOESN'T resolve to the expected 
backslash-t. So it seems to me that the problem for Windows coders is not 
that \y doesn't raise an error, but the mere existence of backslash 
escapes.



> Someone (obviously not you because you're have perfect knowledge of the
> language and 100% situation awareness at all times) might have a string
> like "abcd\stuv"  and change it to "abcd\tuvw" without even thinking
> about the fact that the s comes after the backslash.

Deary me. And they might type "4+15" instead of "4*51", and now 
arithmetic is an "error-prone mess" too. If you know of a programming 
language which can prevent you making semantic errors, please let us all 
know what it is.

If you edit code without thinking, you will be burnt, and you get *zero* 
sympathy from me.


> Worst of all: they might not even notice the error, because the repr of
> this string is:
> 
> 'abcd\tuwv'
> 
> They might not notice that the backslash is single, because (unlike you)
> mortal fallible human beings don't always register tiny details like a
> backslash being single when it should be double.

"Help help, 123145 looks too similar to 1231145, and now I calculated my 
taxes wrong and will go to jail!!!"


> Point is, this is a very bad inconsistency.  It makes the behavior of \
> impossible to learn by analogy, now you have to memorize a list of
> situations where it behaves one way or another.

No, you don't "have" to memorize anything, you can go right ahead and 
escape every backslash, as I did for years. Your code will still work 
fine.

You already have to memorize what escape codes return special characters. 
The only difference is whether you learn "...and everything else raises 
an exception" or "...and everything else is returned unchanged". 

There is at least one good reason for preferring an error, namely that it 
allows Python to introduce new escape codes without going through a long, 
slow process. But the rest of these complaints are terribly unconvincing.



-- 
Steven


From deets at nospam.web.de  Mon Aug 10 04:39:19 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 10:39:19 +0200
Subject: resume upload wsgi script
In-Reply-To: <49e41062-9e0d-4c5e-beca-edb02d3ce6e8@e34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
References: <36993141-188c-4b13-8819-e60516d27437@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<7e80jlF2etv0kU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	<7e85i3F2fdc1eU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<9cd75067-8839-44dd-9b42-4ffb15488b66@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
	<7e8ildF2f1hcpU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<49e41062-9e0d-4c5e-beca-edb02d3ce6e8@e34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7ea4lpF2dvr5cU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

> 
> 250KB :)

So why do you bother?

> Its just HTTP1.1 has everything for making ftp like file transfers
> possible.
> When I write it to a file then I am back at square one because I still
> need to load it completely to get it into a blob.

Well, the blob is nothing but datat in the file-system. If you are 
*really* concerned about that, then don't use the db, but use the 
filesystem, appending to the file until it's finished - and storing a 
reference to it to the DB. We do that as well, because otherwise the db 
will become unmanagable anyway (dumping, backups).

> So there is no way to concatenate BLOB's without loading it completely
> into memory ?

In theory, the DB might offer special stream-based methods for these 
kinds of tasks, but the db-api lacks them. Some DB-adapters might offer 
some non-standard-extensions, but I don't think sqlite does.

Diez


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Aug 10 04:49:20 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 10 Aug 2009 08:49:20 GMT
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<246b6a1d-7e83-4ad3-9978-c2a55b884a6c@o13g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 00:57:18 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:

> On Aug 10, 2:10?am, Steven D'Aprano
> 
>> I've never had any errors caused by this.
> 
> But you've seen an error caused by this, in this very discussion. I.e.,
> "foo\xbar".


Your complaint is that "invalid" escapes like \y resolve to a literal 
backslash-y instead of raising an error. But \xbar doesn't contain an 
invalid escape, it contains a valid hex escape. Your ignorance that \xHH 
is a valid hex escape (for suitable hex digits) isn't an example of an 
error caused by "invalid" escapes like \y.



> "\xba" isn't an escape sequence in any other language that I've used,
> which is one reason I made this error... Oh, wait a minute -- it *is* an
> escape sequence in JavaScript. But in JavaScript, while "\xba" is a
> special character, "\xb" is synonymous with "xb".
> 
> The fact that every language seems to treat these things similarly but
> differently, is yet another reason why they should just be treated
> utterly consistently by all of the languages: I.e., escape sequences
> that don't have a special meaning should be an error!

Perhaps all the other languages should follow Python's lead instead?

Or perhaps they should follow bash's lead, and map \C to C for every 
character. If there were no special escapes at all, Windows programmers 
wouldn't keep getting burnt when they write "C:\\Documents\today\foo" and 
end up with something completely unexpected.

Oh wait, no, that still wouldn't work, because they'd end up with 
C:\Documentstodayfoo. So copying bash doesn't work.

But copying C will upset the bash coders, because they'll write 
"some\ file\ with\ spaces" and suddenly their code won't even compile!!!

Seems like no matter what you do, you're going to upset *somebody*.



>> I've never seen anyone write to
>> this newsgroup confused over escape behaviour,
> 
> My friend objects strongly the claim that he is "confused" by it, so I
> guess you are right that no one is confused. He just thinks that it
> violates the beautiful sense of aesthetics that he was sworn over and
> over again Python to have.

Fair enough.



-- 
Steven


From no.i.dont at want.mail.from.spammers.com  Mon Aug 10 05:23:57 2009
From: no.i.dont at want.mail.from.spammers.com (Fencer)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 11:23:57 +0200
Subject: Problem with join in__str__() in class (newbie)
In-Reply-To: 
References: <7e8ek2F2dre5lU1@mid.individual.net>
	
	<7e8g3vF2etertU1@mid.individual.net>
	
	<7e8keqF2eib0lU1@mid.individual.net> 
Message-ID: <7ea79eF2esi87U1@mid.individual.net>

Piet van Oostrum wrote:
[snip]

Thanks for your detailed reply!

- Fencer


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Mon Aug 10 05:34:38 2009
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 10 Aug 2009 09:34:38 GMT
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<246b6a1d-7e83-4ad3-9978-c2a55b884a6c@o13g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Douglas Alan  wrote:

> "\xba" isn't an escape sequence in any other language that I've used,
> which is one reason I made this error... Oh, wait a minute -- it *is*
> an escape sequence in JavaScript. But in JavaScript, while "\xba" is a
> special character, "\xb" is synonymous with "xb".
> 

"\xba" is an escape sequence in c, c++, c#, python, javascript, perl and 
probably many others.

"\xb" is an escape sequence in c, c++, c# but not in Python, Javascript, or 
Perl. Python will throw ValueError if you try to use "\xb" in a string, 
Javascript simply ignores the backslash.

> The fact that every language seems to treat these things similarly but
> differently, is yet another reason why they should just be treated
> utterly consistently by all of the languages: I.e., escape sequences
> that don't have a special meaning should be an error!

It would be nice if these things were treated consistently, but they aren't 
and it seems unlikely to change.



-- 
Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Aug 10 05:40:24 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 10 Aug 2009 09:40:24 GMT
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<3611ca55-79a6-4336-9041-07d0893789f7@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 00:32:30 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:

> In C++, if I know that the code I'm looking at compiles, then I never
> need worry that I've misinterpreted what a string literal means.

If you don't know what your string literals are, you don't know what your 
program does. You can't expect the compiler to save you from semantic 
errors. Adding escape codes into the string literal doesn't change this 
basic truth.

Semantics matters, and unlike syntax, the compiler can't check it. 
There's a difference between a program that does the equivalent of:

    os.system("cp myfile myfile~")

and one which does this

    os.system("rm myfile myfile~")


The compiler can't save you from typing 1234 instead of 11234, or 31.45 
instead of 3.145, or "My darling Ho" instead of "My darling Jo", so why 
do you expect it to save you from typing "abc\d" instead of "abc\\d"?

Perhaps it can catch *some* errors of that type, but only at the cost of 
extra effort required to defeat the compiler (forcing the programmer to 
type \\d to prevent the compiler complaining about \d). I don't think the 
benefit is worth the cost. You and your friend do. Who is to say you're 
right?



> At
> least not if it doesn't have any escape characters in it that I'm not
> familiar with. But in Python, if I see, "\f\o\o\b\a\z", I'm not really
> sure what I'm seeing, as I surely don't have committed to memory some of
> the more obscure escape sequences. If I saw this in C++, and I knew that
> it was in code that compiled, then I'd at least know that there are some
> strange escape codes that I have to look up. 

And if you saw that in Python, you'd also know that there are some 
strange escape codes that you have to look up. Fortunately, in Python, 
that's really simple:

>>> "\f\o\o\b\a\z"
'\x0c\\o\\o\x08\x07\\z'

Immediately you can see that the \o and \z sequences resolve to 
themselves, and the \f \b and \a don't.



> Unlike with Python, it
> would never be the case in C++ code that the programmer who wrote the
> code was just too lazy to type in "\\f\\o\\o\\b\\a\\z" instead.

But if you see "abc\n", you can't be sure whether the lazy programmer 
intended "abc"+newline, or "abc"+backslash+"n". Either way, the compiler 
won't complain.


 
>> You just have to memorize it. If you don't know what a backslash escape
>> is going to do, why would you use it?
> 
> (1) You're looking at code that someone else wrote, or (2) you forget to
> type "\\" instead of "\" in your code (or get lazy sometimes), as that
> is okay most of the time, and you inadvertently get a subtle bug.

The same error can occur in C++, if you intend \\n but type \n by 
mistake. Or vice versa. The compiler won't save you from that.



>> This is especially important when reading (as opposed to writing) code.
>> You read somebody else's code, and see "foo\xbar\n". Let's say you know
>> it compiles without warning. Big deal -- you don't know what the escape
>> codes do unless you've memorized them. What does \n resolve to? chr(13)
>> or chr(97) or chr(0)? Who knows?
> 
> It *is* a big deal. Or at least a non-trivial deal. It means that you
> can tell just by looking at the code that there are funny characters in
> the string, and not just a backslashes. 

I'm not entirely sure why you think that's a big deal. Strictly speaking, 
there are no "funny characters", not even \0, in Python. They're all just 
characters. Perhaps the closest is newline (which is pretty obvious).



> You don't have to go running for
> the manual every time you see code with backslashes, where the upshot
> might be that the programmer was merely saving themselves some typing.

Why do you care if there are "funny characters"?

In C++, if you see an escape you don't recognize, do you care? Do you go 
running for the manual? If the answer is No, then why do it in Python?

And if the answer is Yes, then how is Python worse than C++?


[...]
> Also, it seems that Python is being inconsistent here. Python knows that
> the string "\x" doesn't contain a full escape sequence, so why doesn't
> it
> treat the string "\x" the same way that it treats the string "\z"?
[...]
> I.e., "\z" is not a legal escape sequence, so it gets left as "\\z".

No. \z *is* a legal escape sequence, it just happens to map to \z.

If you stop thinking of \z as an illegal escape sequence that Python 
refuses to raise an error for, the problem goes away. It's a legal escape 
sequence that maps to backslash + z.



> "\x" is not a legal escape sequence. Shouldn't it also get left as
> "\\x"?

No, because it actually is an illegal escape sequence.



>> > He's particularly annoyed too, that if he types "foo\xbar" at the
>> > REPL, it echoes back as "foo\\xbar". He finds that to be some sort of
>> > annoying DWIM feature, and if Python is going to have DWIM features,
>> > then it should, for example, figure out what he means by "\" and not
>> > bother him with a syntax error in that case.
>>
>> Now your friend is confused. This is a good thing. Any backslash you
>> see in Python's default string output is *always* an escape:
> 
> Well, I think he's more annoyed that if Python is going to be so helpful
> as to put in the missing "\" for you in "foo\zbar", then it should put
> in the missing "\" for you in "\". He considers this to be an
> inconsistency.

(1) There is no missing \ in "foo\zbar".

(2) The problem with "\" isn't a missing backslash, but a missing end-
quote.





> Me, I'd never, ever, EVER want a language to special-case something at
> the end of a string, but I can see that from his new-to-Python
> perspective, Python seems to be DWIMing in one place and not the other,
> and he thinks that it should either do no DWIMing at all, or
> consistently DWIM. To not be consistent in this regard is "inelegant",
> says he.

Python isn't DWIMing here. The rules are simple and straightforward, 
there's no mind-reading or guessing required. There is no heuristic 
trying to predict what the user intends. It's a simple rule:

When parsing a string literal (apart from raw strings), if you see a 
backslash, then grab the next token (usually a single character, but for 
\x and \0 it could be multiple characters). If there is a mapping 
available for that token, insert that in the string being built, and if 
not, insert the backslash and the token.

(As I said earlier, this may not be precisely how it is implemented, but 
functionally, it is what Python does.)


> And I can see his point that allowing "foo\zbar" and "foo\\zbar" to be
> synonymous is a form of DWIMing.

Is it "a form of DWIMing" to consider 1.234e1 and 12.34  synonymous?

What about 86 and 0x44? Is that DWIMing?

I'm sure both you and your friend are excellent programmers, but you're 
tossing around DWIM as a meaningless term of opprobrium without any 
apparent understand of what DWIM actually is.




-- 
Steven



From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Mon Aug 10 05:41:52 2009
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 10 Aug 2009 09:41:52 GMT
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<246b6a1d-7e83-4ad3-9978-c2a55b884a6c@o13g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Steven D'Aprano  wrote:

> Or perhaps they should follow bash's lead, and map \C to C for every 
> character. If there were no special escapes at all, Windows
> programmers wouldn't keep getting burnt when they write
> "C:\\Documents\today\foo" and end up with something completely
> unexpected. 
> 
> Oh wait, no, that still wouldn't work, because they'd end up with 
> C:\Documentstodayfoo. So copying bash doesn't work.
> 

There is of course no problem at all so long as you stick to writing your 
paths as MS intended them to be written: 8.3 and UPPERCASE

>>> "C:\DOCUME~1\TODAY\FOO"
'C:\\DOCUME~1\\TODAY\\FOO'

:^)


-- 
Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com


From garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk  Mon Aug 10 05:43:08 2009
From: garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk (garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:43:08 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: install tarball package Python on Debian,
	necessary modules not found
References: 
Message-ID: 

Fr?d?ric L?ger  wrote:

> I use Debian Lenny and I tried to install the tarball packaging of the
> lastest python realease (http://www.python.org/download/, release
> 3.1). After read README file I launch standard Makefile commands. But
> at the end of "make" command, I have got this message:
> 

Maybe you know, but there is python3.1 deb in experimental. Works with
testing like a charm. It is also possible to install ubuntu's 3.X into
debian.

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------
| Radovan Garab?k http://kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk/~garabik/ |
| __..--^^^--..__    garabik @ kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk     |
 -----------------------------------------------------------
Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus.
Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!


From thangappan143 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 05:45:07 2009
From: thangappan143 at gmail.com (Thangappan.M)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:15:07 +0530
Subject: Problem in installing PyGreSQL
In-Reply-To: 
References: <7aa29e790908032045p3b52a633m8d0e366a0f648b@mail.gmail.com>
	<7f0b4d2b1d5bd3f3057ead3b029059b9@preisshare.net>
	<20090804084856.b825967a.darcy@druid.net>
	
	<20090804095547.a5274e22.darcy@druid.net> 
	<7aa29e790908060330x67d900a9rfb4677eaf0eddeb@mail.gmail.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <7aa29e790908100245k3c08dc36mcebbfa48a0d6bdc4@mail.gmail.com>

Here I attached the setup.py and setup.cfg file.This is for your reference.
I have changed the exception line.
Even though I got the following error while running the python setup.py
build
running build
running build_py
running build_ext
error: No such file or directory

===========================================

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 7:38 PM, Scott David Daniels
wrote:

> Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 6 Aug 2009 16:00:15 +0530, "Thangappan.M"
>>  declaimed the following in
>> gmane.comp.python.general:
>>
>>>  File "./setup.py", line 219, in finalize_options
>>>    except (Warning, w):
>>> NameError: global name 'w' is not defined
>>>
>>> What would be the solution?
>>> Otherwise can you tell how to install DB-API in debian machine.
>>>
>>        Sorry... 1) I run on WinXP; 2) I don't build packages, relying on
>> pre-built binaries; 3) I run MySQL.
>>
>>        However, based upon the examples in the Tutorial, that line should
>> not have the (, ). A parenthesised (tuple) is suppose to contain a list
>> of exceptions, and the parameter to catch the exception specifics has to
>> be outside the list.
>>
>>        Best I can suggest is editing that particular line and removing the
>> (, ) -- then try rebuilding.
>>
>>        I'll also re-ask: All you are installing is the Python adapter to
>> the database. DO YOU HAVE A RUNNING PostgreSQL server that you can
>> connect to?
>>
>
> Just to be a bit more explict:
> Change file setup.py's line 219 from:
> >>     except (Warning, w):
> to either (OK in Python 2.6 and greater):
>       except Warning as w:
> or (works for Python 2.X):
>       except Warning, w:
>
>
> --Scott David Daniels
> Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
Regards,
Thangappan.M
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From manu3d at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 06:01:30 2009
From: manu3d at gmail.com (Emanuele D'Arrigo)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 03:01:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: exec("dir()",d)
References: <9adbf402-3e7e-44a4-adb3-afc36d5d88ba@33g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <138a15c5-a39b-427a-91c6-47ce7dd52a78@f33g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>

Thank you both for the explanation.

As a matter of fact RTFM doesn't -always- help. Sometimes I'm just
thick and I can read the manual 10 times and still not understand, as
it happened on this particular matter. Your contribution focused my
attention on the right bit of the manual which I somehow didn't manage
to ingest before. Now I understand.

Thank you.

Manu


From deets at nospam.web.de  Mon Aug 10 06:52:26 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 12:52:26 +0200
Subject: Cython + setuptools not working with .pyx,only with .c-files
References: <7dvq5fF2e21b7U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<4a7c56e0$0$31871$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <7eacfaF2fi1s2U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Stefan Behnel wrote:

> Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
>> I'm trying to build a Cython-extension as Egg.
>> 
>> However, this doesn't work - I can either use distutils to build the
>> extension, creating a myextension.c-file on the way.
>> 
>> If that's there, I can use setuptools to build the egg.
>> 
>> But when I remove the .c-file, the .pyx-file isn't used to re-generate
>> it.
> 
> setuptools monkeypatch into distutils to support Pyrex if it's installed,
> but most non-bleeding-edge versions do not know about Cython and thus
> break the Cython distutils support when Pyrex isn't there as well.
> 
> What helps is to put a fake Pyrex installation into your sys.path, like
> 
> http://codespeak.net/svn/lxml/trunk/fake_pyrex/
> 
> as done at the top of
> 
> http://codespeak.net/svn/lxml/trunk/setup.py

Thanks, that did the trick for us.

Diez


From subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 07:26:57 2009
From: subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com (joy99)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 04:26:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Problem Regarding Handling of Unicode string
Message-ID: <9ac0e194-9e25-468a-9807-957ef3142dd3@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

Dear Group,

I am using Python26 on WindowsXP with service pack2. My GUI is IDLE.
I am using Hindi resources and get nice output like:
??
where I can use all the re functions and other functions without doing
any transliteration,etc.
I was trying to use Bengali but it is giving me output like:
'\xef\xbb\xbf\xe0\xa6\x85\xe0\xa6\xa8\xe0\xa7\x87\xe0\xa6\x95'
I wanted to see Bengali output as
????
and I like to use all functions including re.
If any one can help me on that.
Best Regards,
Subhabrata.


From nair.jitendra at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 07:39:03 2009
From: nair.jitendra at gmail.com (jitu)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 04:39:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Problem when fetching page using urllib2.urlopen
Message-ID: <2f1086ba-26ba-42a8-b5de-27581fa853e3@12g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

A html page  contains 'anchor' elements with 'href' attribute  having
a semicolon  in the url , while fetching the page using
urllib2.urlopen, all such href's  containing  'semicolons' are
truncated.


For example the href http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide-6901959-pune_restaurants-i;_ylt=AlWSqpkpqhICp1lMgChtJkCdGWoL
get truncated to http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide-6901959-pune_restaurants-i

The page I am talking about can be fetched from
http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide-485468-pune_india_vacations-i;_ylc=X3oDMTFka28zOGNuBF9TAzI3NjY2NzkEX3MDOTY5NTUzMjUEc2VjA3NzcC1kZXN0BHNsawN0aXRsZQ--

Thanks a Lot
Regards
jitu



From eckhardt at satorlaser.com  Mon Aug 10 07:41:01 2009
From: eckhardt at satorlaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 13:41:01 +0200
Subject: Problem Regarding Handling of Unicode string
References: <9ac0e194-9e25-468a-9807-957ef3142dd3@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

joy99 wrote:
> [...] it is giving me output like:
> '\xef\xbb\xbf\xe0\xa6\x85\xe0\xa6\xa8\xe0\xa7\x87\xe0\xa6\x95'
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^

These three bytes encode the byte-order marker (BOM, Unicode uFEFF) as
UTF-8, followed by codepoint u09a8 (look it up on unicode.org what that
is).

In any case, if this is produced as output, there is some missing
encoding/decoding going on. You mentioned that it works in one case but
doesn't in another. Since you didn't provide any information how to
reproduce what you saw, any further help is at most guesswork.

Uli

-- 
Sator Laser GmbH
Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Thorsten F?cking, Amtsgericht Hamburg HR B62 932



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Aug 10 07:41:08 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 12:41:08 +0100
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
In-Reply-To: 
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	
	
Message-ID: <4A800754.20907@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 17:56:55 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:
> 
[snip]
>> My point of view is that
>> every language has *some* warts; Python just has a bit fewer than most.
>> It would have been nice, I should think, if this wart had been "fixed"
>> in Python 3, as I do consider it to be a minor wart.
> 
> And if anyone had cared enough to raise it a couple of years back, it 
> possibly might have been.
> 
My preference would've been that a backslash followed by A-Z, a-z, or
0-9 is special, but a backslash followed by any other character is just
the character, except for backslash followed by a newline, which
suppresses the newline.

I would also have preferred a backslash in a raw string to always be a
literal.

Ah well, something for Python 4.x. :-)


From nair.jitendra at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 07:43:12 2009
From: nair.jitendra at gmail.com (jitu)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 04:43:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Problem when fetching page using urllib2.urlopen
References: <2f1086ba-26ba-42a8-b5de-27581fa853e3@12g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0579ebc0-2542-4f96-af3e-9861ad646b13@d9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 10, 4:39?pm, jitu  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> A html page ?contains 'anchor' elements with 'href' attribute ?having
> a semicolon ?in the url , while fetching the page using
> urllib2.urlopen, all such href's ?containing ?'semicolons' are
> truncated.
>
> For example the hrefhttp://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide-6901959-pune_restaurants-i;_ylt...
> get truncated tohttp://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide-6901959-pune_restaurants-i
>
> The page I am talking about can be fetched fromhttp://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide-485468-pune_india_vacations-i;_...
>
> Thanks a Lot
> Regards
> jitu

Hi

   Sorry, the question what I wanted to ask was, whether is this the
correct behaviour or a bug ?


Thanks A Lot.
Regards
jitu


From sibtey.mehndi at genpact.com  Mon Aug 10 08:23:56 2009
From: sibtey.mehndi at genpact.com (Mehndi, Sibtey)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 17:53:56 +0530
Subject: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
Message-ID: <1A343A98C8DAE44A8D9D1BF310F90D5E0141163674@GCPWINGGN2EVS11.IND.CORP.AD>

Hi
I am trying to create a COM object of picalo functionalities so that I can use it into my VB application but I am getting the following error "[Errno 9] bad file descriptor".
Can you please suggest me what is supposed to do to avoid this problem?

This is my code

class Test(object):
    _reg_progid_ = "test"
    _reg_clsid_ = "{D2EFAAC0-797A-471A-AA07-ECEACFE33A08}"
    _public_methods_ = ['dbconnect']


    def dbconnect(self, dbName, dbUserName, dbPWD, dbHost, dbPort):
        try:
            self.conn = Database.MySQLConnection(dbName, username=dbUserName, password=dbPWD, host=dbHost, port=dbPort)
            self.table = self.conn.table( "SELECT * FROM test_flag_data")
            return  "connected"
        except Exception,e:
            return str(e)

Thanks,
Sibty



This e-mail (and any attachments), is confidential and may be privileged. It may be read, copied and used only
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From nadiasvertex at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 08:41:28 2009
From: nadiasvertex at gmail.com (Christopher)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 05:41:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: www.python.org website is down?
References: 
	
	
	<4A7DC141.9070207@v.loewis.de>
	<54581bf3-c9a1-4bbf-945c-28d436ffda2a@k13g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<4cea29ee-cc89-4494-aef9-0f46f8dd11b9@2g2000prl.googlegroups.com> 
	<80c46b94-9df2-43f5-9182-37c2413db783@b25g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 8, 5:50?pm, Pouya Khankhanian  wrote:
> On Aug 8, 11:49?am, Sharath  wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Aug 8, 11:33?am, Pouya Khankhanian  wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 8, 11:17?am, "Martin v. L?wis"  wrote:
>
> > > > > This is probably a stupid question, but Is there going to be any data
> > > > > loss if it turns out that the disk has died completely? I assume there
> > > > > are backups of the repo that are geographically distributed.
>
> > > > Yes, we have backups, and are restoring them at the moment. However,
> > > > we still haven't given up on the original disks: they are (probably)
> > > > fine; it's just the RAID controller that has failed (and we can't buy a
> > > > replacement before Monday).
>
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Martin
>
> > > Is there a mirror site to download the latest python installer? Every
> > > mirror I have found on the web redirects me to python.org.
> > > Best
> > > Peter
>
> > Python FTP mirror sites also have the same problem. They are not being
> > mirrored for some require a password. Is there any other way to get a
> > copy?
>
> > Sharath Venkatesha
>
> Website is back up! Thanks for all the hard work

Actually, it appears to be down again.


From kdawg44 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 08:47:19 2009
From: kdawg44 at gmail.com (Kevin Holleran)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 08:47:19 -0400
Subject: Changing Remote Registry
In-Reply-To: <4A7C6D96.3000201@timgolden.me.uk>
References: <5caea3690908070652v2ccb3ac8s4336266afe71dcb5@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A7C6D96.3000201@timgolden.me.uk>
Message-ID: <5caea3690908100547l65394e65le111d8f3dda9e903@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 2:08 PM, Tim Golden  wrote:

> Kevin Holleran wrote:
>
>> Long story short, I am using _winreg to do this.
>>
>> hKey = _winreg.OpenKey (keyPath, path, 0, _winreg.KEY_SET_VALUE)
>> value,type = _winreg.QueryValueEx(hKey, item)
>> if (value == wrongValue):
>>       _winreg.SetValue(hKey,'',_winreg.REG_SZ,correctValue)
>>
>>
>> When I do this I receive the error:
>>
>> _winreg.SetValue WindowsError: [Error 5] Access Denied
>>
>
> As an alternative, try using WMI instead. You'll have to look up the docs
> a bit, but to get you started:
>
> 
> import wmi
>
> reg = wmi.WMI ("remote-machine", namespace="default").StdRegProv
>
> print reg.methods.keys ()
>
> 
>
> TJG
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


Thank you for your response.

I actually started with the WMI wrapper but isn't that just a wrapper that
utilizes (in this case) the _winreg module?

I guess my question is will Windows let me change the registry remotely?
The error is a Windows permission error on the KEY_SET_VALUE.  I am running
this as a domain admin on a machine on the domain.  Does the connection
inherit the credentials I am running it under or will I need to pass those
in?  Or does Windows simply not let me change the registry?

To me its not worth too much trouble.  If I can change it in place it saves
me just a little bit of work because I have to touch each machine anyway for
other reasons.  The big difference is that I can change all the machines I
have to touch right now and get them fixed up or these folks are just going
to have to wait until I get to each one.

Thanks for all your help and support.

Kevin
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From ebonak at hotmail.com  Mon Aug 10 08:50:21 2009
From: ebonak at hotmail.com (Esmail)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 08:50:21 -0400
Subject: compression level with tarfile (w:gz) ?
Message-ID: 

Hello,

I was wondering if it possible to specify a compression level when I
tar/gzip a file in Python using the tarfile module. I would like to
specify the highest (9) compression level for gzip.

Ideally:

    t = tarfile.open(tar_file_name+'.tar.gz', mode='w:gz:9')

When I create a simple tar and then gzip it 'manually' with compression
level 9, I get a smaller archive than when I have this code execute with
the w:gz option.

Is the only way to accomplish the higher rate to create a tar file
and then use a different module to gzip it (assuming I can specify
the compression level there)?

Thanks,
Esmail

-----------------
My current code:
-----------------

def tar_it_up(target_dir_name, tar_file_name=None):
     '''
     tar up target_dir_name directory and create a
     tar/zip file with base name tar_file_name

     appends a date/timestamp to tar_file_name
     '''

     time_string = time.strftime("_%b_%d_%Y_%a_%H_%M")

     if tar_file_name is None:
         tar_file_name = target_dir_name

     tar_file_name += time_string

     print ('Creating archive of %s ...' % target_dir_name),

     t = tarfile.open(tar_file_name+'.tar.gz', mode='w:gz')
#   t = tarfile.open(tar_file_name+'.tar', mode='w')
     t.add(target_dir_name)
     t.close()

     print ('saved to %s.tar.gz' % tar_file_name)



From contact at xavierho.com  Mon Aug 10 08:51:21 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 22:51:21 +1000
Subject: www.python.org website is down?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
	<4A7DC141.9070207@v.loewis.de>
	<54581bf3-c9a1-4bbf-945c-28d436ffda2a@k13g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<4cea29ee-cc89-4494-aef9-0f46f8dd11b9@2g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
	<80c46b94-9df2-43f5-9182-37c2413db783@b25g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908100551v6ad45fb3u5b77adc0149051d8@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 10:41 PM, Christopher wrote:

>
> Actually, it appears to be down again.
>

Nope, works for me, just a little slow.

-Xav
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From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Mon Aug 10 09:19:43 2009
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:19:43 -0400
Subject: compression level with tarfile (w:gz) ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 8:50 AM, Esmail wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I was wondering if it possible to specify a compression level when I
> tar/gzip a file in Python using the tarfile module. I would like to
> specify the highest (9) compression level for gzip.
>
> Ideally:
>
> ? t = tarfile.open(tar_file_name+'.tar.gz', mode='w:gz:9')
>
> When I create a simple tar and then gzip it 'manually' with compression
> level 9, I get a smaller archive than when I have this code execute with
> the w:gz option.
>

Looking at the tarfile docs, it seems that there are tarfile.gzopen
and tarfile.bz2open functions that have a compresslevel parameter that
defaults to 9. You can't append using those functions but you can read
and write.

> Is the only way to accomplish the higher rate to create a tar file
> and then use a different module to gzip it (assuming I can specify
> the compression level there)?
>
> Thanks,
> Esmail
>
> -----------------
> My current code:
> -----------------
>
> def tar_it_up(target_dir_name, tar_file_name=None):
> ? ?'''
> ? ?tar up target_dir_name directory and create a
> ? ?tar/zip file with base name tar_file_name
>
> ? ?appends a date/timestamp to tar_file_name
> ? ?'''
>
> ? ?time_string = time.strftime("_%b_%d_%Y_%a_%H_%M")
>
> ? ?if tar_file_name is None:
> ? ? ? ?tar_file_name = target_dir_name
>
> ? ?tar_file_name += time_string
>
> ? ?print ('Creating archive of %s ...' % target_dir_name),
>
> ? ?t = tarfile.open(tar_file_name+'.tar.gz', mode='w:gz')
> # ? t = tarfile.open(tar_file_name+'.tar', mode='w')
> ? ?t.add(target_dir_name)
> ? ?t.close()
>
> ? ?print ('saved to %s.tar.gz' % tar_file_name)
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From ebonak at hotmail.com  Mon Aug 10 09:37:14 2009
From: ebonak at hotmail.com (Esmail)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:37:14 -0400
Subject: compression level with tarfile (w:gz) ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

Benjamin Kaplan wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 8:50 AM, Esmail wrote:
>>
>> I was wondering if it possible to specify a compression level when I
>> tar/gzip a file in Python using the tarfile module. I would like to
>> specify the highest (9) compression level for gzip.
>>
>> Ideally:
>>
>>   t = tarfile.open(tar_file_name+'.tar.gz', mode='w:gz:9')
<..>
> 
> Looking at the tarfile docs, it seems that there are tarfile.gzopen
> and tarfile.bz2open functions that have a compresslevel parameter that
> defaults to 9. You can't append using those functions but you can read
> and write.

Hi Benjamin,

I can't find tarfile.gzopen  in the tarfile docs, I'm looking here:

     http://docs.python.org/library/tarfile.html

Am I looking at the wrong page?

Thanks,

Esmail



From lars at gustaebel.de  Mon Aug 10 09:41:08 2009
From: lars at gustaebel.de (Lars =?iso-8859-1?Q?Gust=E4bel?=)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:41:08 +0200
Subject: compression level with tarfile (w:gz) ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <20090810134108.GA7790@axis.g33x.de>

On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 08:50:21AM -0400, Esmail wrote:
> I was wondering if it possible to specify a compression level when I
> tar/gzip a file in Python using the tarfile module. I would like to
> specify the highest (9) compression level for gzip.

tarfile uses gzip.GzipFile() internally, GzipFile()'s default compression level
is 9.

> When I create a simple tar and then gzip it 'manually' with compression
> level 9, I get a smaller archive than when I have this code execute with
> the w:gz option.

How much smaller is it? I did a test with a recent Linux kernel source tree
which made an archive of 337MB. Command-line gzip was ahead of Python's
GzipFile() by just 20200 bytes(!) with an archive of about 74MB.

> Is the only way to accomplish the higher rate to create a tar file
> and then use a different module to gzip it (assuming I can specify
> the compression level there)?

If you need the disk space that badly, the alternative would be to pipe
tarfile's output to command-line gzip somehow:

fobj = open("result.tar.gz", "w")
proc = subprocess.Popen(["gzip", "-9"], stdin=subprocess.PIPE, stdout=fobj)
tar = tarfile.open(fileobj=proc.stdin, mode="w|")
tar.add(...)
tar.close()
proc.stdin.close()
fobj.close()

Cheers,

-- 
Lars Gust?bel
lars at gustaebel.de

A physicist is an atom's way of knowing about atoms.
(George Wald)


From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Mon Aug 10 09:55:06 2009
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:55:06 -0400
Subject: compression level with tarfile (w:gz) ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 9:37 AM, Esmail wrote:
> Benjamin Kaplan wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 8:50 AM, Esmail wrote:
>>>
>>> I was wondering if it possible to specify a compression level when I
>>> tar/gzip a file in Python using the tarfile module. I would like to
>>> specify the highest (9) compression level for gzip.
>>>
>>> Ideally:
>>>
>>> ?t = tarfile.open(tar_file_name+'.tar.gz', mode='w:gz:9')
>
> <..>
>>
>> Looking at the tarfile docs, it seems that there are tarfile.gzopen
>> and tarfile.bz2open functions that have a compresslevel parameter that
>> defaults to 9. You can't append using those functions but you can read
>> and write.
>
> Hi Benjamin,
>
> I can't find tarfile.gzopen ?in the tarfile docs, I'm looking here:
>
> ? ?http://docs.python.org/library/tarfile.html
>
> Am I looking at the wrong page?
>

My mistake. It isn't a function of the tarfile module, it's a class
method of tarfile.TarFile. I was looking at the help in the
interactive interpreter. It doesn't seem to be in the official docs,
but you can use pydoc to view the docstrings.

> Thanks,
>
> Esmail
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 09:57:43 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 06:57:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: www.python.org website is down?
References: 
	
Message-ID: <1d952f0b-9552-48ef-ad2e-a7b8e06ea8eb@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 8, 8:48?am, MRAB  wrote:
...(snip)
> Bothwww.python.organd svn.python.org are down. ?They're hosted on
> the same machine, and it seems to have run into disk problems and
> hasn't rebooted even after power-cycling. ?Thomas Wouters will be
> visiting the machine physically tomorrow to try to diagnose the
> problem.

Oh stop lying MRAB, everybody knows Guido hosts Python.org from his
attic on an old Linux box :-)


From rurpy at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 10 10:01:04 2009
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 07:01:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <616c058c-2595-42fc-b80d-e599d5d6ad66@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 9, 10:02?pm, David Lyon  wrote:
...
> Before you do that, you should clearly work out in your own mind
> how you think things need to improve. It's not good enough just
> saying this or that is bad without having specific ideas on what
> needs to change.
'''

He did.  Did you read, for example, the critique of the gzip
docs for which he gave the url

   http://xahlee.org/perl-python/python_doc_gzip.html

There were some things I might not completely agree with
there, but basically, I thought it was right on, including
his suggestions on how to improve it.


From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 10:11:33 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 07:11:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 10, 4:37?am, Steven D'Aprano

> There is at least one good reason for preferring an error, namely that it
> allows Python to introduce new escape codes without going through a long,
> slow process. But the rest of these complaints are terribly unconvincing.


What about:

   o Beautiful is better than ugly
   o Explicit is better than implicit
   o Simple is better than complex
   o Readability counts
   o Special cases aren't special enough to break the rules
   o Errors should never pass silently

?

And most importantly:

   o In the face of ambiguity, refuse the temptation to guess.
   o There should be one -- and preferably only one -- obvious way to
do it.

?

So, what's the one obvious right way to express "foo\zbar"? Is it

   "foo\zbar"

or

   "foo\\zbar"

And if it's the latter, what possible benefit is there in allowing the
former?  And if it's the former, why does Python echo the latter?

|>ouglas


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Aug 10 10:13:12 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:13:12 +0100
Subject: www.python.org website is down?
In-Reply-To: <1d952f0b-9552-48ef-ad2e-a7b8e06ea8eb@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
References: 	
	<1d952f0b-9552-48ef-ad2e-a7b8e06ea8eb@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A802AF8.1000407@mrabarnett.plus.com>

r wrote:
> On Aug 8, 8:48 am, MRAB  wrote:
> ...(snip)
>> Bothwww.python.organd svn.python.org are down.  They're hosted on
>> the same machine, and it seems to have run into disk problems and
>> hasn't rebooted even after power-cycling.  Thomas Wouters will be
>> visiting the machine physically tomorrow to try to diagnose the
>> problem.
> 
> Oh stop lying MRAB, everybody knows Guido hosts Python.org from his
> attic on an old Linux box :-)

That was a quote from A.M. Kuchling.

It's actually hosted on a matchbox-sized multi-core multi-terabyte
wifi-enabled Linux machine that Guido brought back from 2050.
Unfortunately, the dog ate it, so he's had to go and buy another one!
:-)


From pruebauno at latinmail.com  Mon Aug 10 10:17:22 2009
From: pruebauno at latinmail.com (nn)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 07:17:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: syntax checker in python
References: 
Message-ID: <8bcca8f4-673c-4478-a2ad-fc292c761062@m20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 7, 4:39?pm, horos11  wrote:
> ps - I just realized that it isn't enough to do:
>
> python -c 'import /path/to/script'
>
> since that actually executes any statement inside of the script
> (wheras all I want to do is check syntax)
>
> So - let me reprhase that - exactly how can you do a syntax check in
> python? Something like perl's -c:
>
> ? ? ?perl -c script_name.p
>
> Ed

You might want to check PyFlakes; it doesn't execute scripts unlike
the others.

http://www.divmod.org/trac/wiki/DivmodPyflakes


From eckhardt at satorlaser.com  Mon Aug 10 10:37:25 2009
From: eckhardt at satorlaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:37:25 +0200
Subject: With or without leading underscore...
Message-ID: <5un5l6-fvn.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

...that is the question!

I have a module which exports a type. It also exports a function that
returns instances of that type. Now, the reason for my question is that
while users will directly use instances of the type, they will not create
instances of the type themselves.

So, the type is a part of the public API, but its constructor is not. Should
I mark the type as private (with a leading underscore) or not?

Thanks!

Uli

-- 
Sator Laser GmbH
Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Thorsten F?cking, Amtsgericht Hamburg HR B62 932



From mydevforums at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 10:48:31 2009
From: mydevforums at gmail.com (IronyOfLife)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 07:48:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python configuration question when python scripts are executed 
	using Appweb as web server.
References: 
	
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

Hi Gabriel

Thanks for the detailed and useful reply.


On Aug 7, 1:37?am, "Gabriel Genellina"  wrote:
> En Thu, 06 Aug 2009 12:49:30 -0300, IronyOfLife  ?
> escribi?:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 5, 4:18?pm, "Gabriel Genellina"  wrote:
> >> En Tue, 04 Aug 2009 10:15:24 -0300, IronyOfLife 
> >> escribi?:
> >> > On Aug 3, 8:42?pm, "Gabriel Genellina"  wrote:
> >> >> En Mon, 03 Aug 2009 11:04:07 -0300, IronyOfLife ?
> >>  ?
> >> >> escribi?:
>
> >> >> > I have installed python 2.6.2 in windows xp professional machine. I
> >> >> > have set the following environment variables -- PYTHONPATH. It ?
> >> points
> >> >> > to following windows folders: python root folder, the lib folder ?
> >> and
> >> >> > lib-tk folder.
>
> >> >> Why? Did you read it somewhere? Usually there is no need to set the ?
> >> >> PYTHONPATH variable at all; remove it.
>
> >> > Setting PYTHONPATH environment variables is mentioned in Python docs.
>
> >> Could you provide a link please? Setting PYTHONPATH should not be
>
> > Here are couple of links that discusses setting PYTHONPATH environment
> > variable.
> >http://docs.python.org/using/windows.html
>
> Ouch, that document should be reworked and updated!
>
> >http://www.daimi.au.dk/~chili/PBI/pythonpath.html
>
> That's mostly obsolete for current versions. Since PEP370 [0] was ?
> implemented, a per-user private directory is already in sys.path now, so ?
> there is no need to play with PYTHONPATH.

Thanks for the clarification on PYTHONPATH.
>
> > I understand your concerns regarding setting of PYTHONPATH while
> > multiple versions of Python are installed on the same machine. My fix
> > however does not use PYTHONPATH. The GNUTLS wrapper module for PYTHON
> > loads the GNUTLS dll's and it was not able to find them. Using FileMon
> > (win tool) I found out the paths that are scanned and I copied the
> > dlls to one of such paths. I still do not like this fix. This is a
> > temporary solution.
>
> Note that this cannot be fixed from inside Python. When you import a ?
> module, the interpreter scans the directories in ITS search path ?
> (sys.path) looking for a matching module. Once the module is found:
> - if it is a Python file, it's executed
> - if it is an extension module (a .pyd file, in fact a .dll renamed) it's ?
> loaded using LoadLibraryEx (a Windows function), and finally its ?
> initialization routine is executed.
>
> For LoadLibrary to successfully load the module, all its external ?
> references must be resolved. That is, Windows must locate and load all ?
> other DLLs that this module depends on, using its own search strategy [1], ?
> taking into account the PATH environment variable and many other places.
>
> It is at this stage that you get the error: when the gnutls wrapper ?
> attempts to load the gnutls DLL. That search is done by Windows, not by ?
> Python, and PYTHONPATH has nothing to do with it.
>
> Why different results in IIS and appweb? Note that there exist several ?
> search strategies, they depend on the application home directory, the ?
> location of the .exe, whether SetDllDirectory was called or not, whether ?
> the application has a manifest or not, a .local file or not... Hard to ?
> tell with so many variables.

This is fairly easy to explain. When I configured IIS to execute
python scripts, as per the documentation I pass two command line
arguments. Appweb works this way. It opens up a new command process
and in the function parameter for environment it sets only SYSTEMROOT.
It does not set the PATH variable (A BUG IN APPWEB which I have passed
on to them. They have not commented or provided any work around) for
Windows platform.

So while loading the gnutls client script is loaded, the following
path is searched
1. gnutls\library
2. C:\windows
3. C:\WIndows\system
4. C:\WIndows\system32
5. Folder where pyhton.exe is present.

And when I use IIS, the PATH variable is also set. So in this case all
the folders in the PATH are also searched and LoadLibrary is able to
successfully find the GNUTLS related Dlls without any issues.

You were mentioning about .local file or manifest file to specify the
path. I used the python's build command to build the wrapper. Is there
a way to mention in setup.py to generate the .manifest file? I wold
very much appreciate if you can help me with that.

I will also look for answers for how to modify setup.py to generate
manifest file or .local file etc..

>
> > Can you explain maybe with some sample how to set .pth files? Maybe
> > this will resolve my issue.
>
> Yes, but I don't think this will actually help with your issue.
>
> pth files are described here [2]. Suppose you want to add c:\foo\bar to ?
> sys.path, then write a file whatever.pth containing this single line:
>
> c:\foo\bar
>
> and place it on c:\your_python_installation\lib\site-packages
> When the interpreter starts, it will find the .pth file, read it, and add ?
> any directory it finds (that actually exists) to sys.path
>
> Note that another Python installation will use a diferent site-packages ?
> directory and won't find this particular .pth file, so different Python ?
> versions don't interfere.
>
> ---
>
> [0]http://python.org/dev/peps/pep-0370/
> [1]http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms682586(VS.85).aspx
> [2]http://docs.python.org/library/site.html
>
> --
> Gabriel Genellina



From ebonak at hotmail.com  Mon Aug 10 10:52:35 2009
From: ebonak at hotmail.com (Esmail)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 10:52:35 -0400
Subject: compression level with tarfile (w:gz) ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 		
	
Message-ID: 

Benjamin Kaplan wrote:
> 
>> I can't find tarfile.gzopen  in the tarfile docs, I'm looking here:
>>
>>    http://docs.python.org/library/tarfile.html
>>
>> Am I looking at the wrong page?
>>
> 
> My mistake. It isn't a function of the tarfile module, it's a class
> method of tarfile.TarFile. I was looking at the help in the
> interactive interpreter. It doesn't seem to be in the official docs,
> but you can use pydoc to view the docstrings.

Thanks for the additional information,

Esmail



From davea at ieee.org  Mon Aug 10 10:52:55 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 10:52:55 -0400
Subject: Need help in configuration for TimedRotatingFileHandler
In-Reply-To: 
References: <7e6938ce-91c9-4b65-980f-46d76bf69220@d36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>	<4A7F3C83.1040607@ieee.org>	
	
Message-ID: <4A803447.70607@ieee.org>

Lokesh Maremalla wrote:
> 
> Code:
> mlogger = logging.getLogger("simpleExample")
> def a_view(request):
>     mlogger.debug("a_view called")
>     if request.method== "POST" :
>         mlogger.debug("post function")
>     else:
>         mlogger.debug("serve function")
>
> Execution:
> step1: Executed the code and got the log file with the information
> step2: Modified the system time from current day to next day
> step3: End up with the error and the error is pasted below
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "c:\Python25\lib\logging\handlers.py", line 74, in emit
>     self.doRollover()
>   File "c:\Python25\lib\logging\handlers.py", line 274, in doRollover
>     os.rename(self.baseFilename, dfn)
> WindowsError: [Error 32] The process cannot access the file because it is
> being used by another process
>
> Python version - 2.5.4
>
> I guess my output should be like this for the next day
> -a new log file rotate_test. should generate in the respective
> location
>
> Please correct me if I am wrong.
>
>
> Thanks for your time.
>
> Regards,
> Lokesh
>
>   
Generally speaking, this error on os.rename() will occur if you haven't 
properly closed the file first, and if I recall correctly, Unix would 
have permitted a rename on an open file.  You're on Windows.  However, I 
don't know how that works with the logging package.  If the program has 
terminated, and you run it a second time on the following day (or after 
changing the system time), then I'd expect no trouble.  But I'm guessing 
your program is still running, and you just want to change from logging 
to yesterday's file to logging to today's file.

If I had to guess, I'd say that you have two instances of the logger 
running, and the second one is still holding the handle open.  But 
that's just a wild guess.

Could someone else who is familiar with logging, and with 
TimedRotatingFileHandler in particular, jump in here?  Preferably a 
Windows person?

DaveA


From matt.urry at googlemail.com  Mon Aug 10 10:54:38 2009
From: matt.urry at googlemail.com (ma3mju)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 07:54:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Processes not exiting
References: <6cfb2f39-c6d6-4d2a-882c-18f21addf206@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	
	<61d7fcbb-17f8-4314-90b6-0a6db22abd6d@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<01b55c48-3252-4cec-8781-98487a9071ae@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> 
	
	 
	<996e50f5-c126-4ac2-ae8d-458d22a26ee1@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<4b564f49-712c-408a-b8bd-9cff5af4a4fe@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: <049e9160-5a92-47b9-9ac6-8e01573d5689@p15g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On 7 Aug, 16:02, MRAB  wrote:
> ma3mju wrote:
> > On 3 Aug, 09:36, ma3mju  wrote:
> >> On 2 Aug, 21:49, Piet van Oostrum  wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>> MRAB  (M) wrote:
> >>>> M> I wonder whether one of the workers is raising an exception, perhaps due
> >>>> M> to lack of memory, when there are large number of jobs to process.
> >>> But that wouldn't prevent the join. And you would probably get an
> >>> exception traceback printed.
> >>> I wonder if something fishy is happening in the multiprocessing
> >>> infrastructure. Or maybe the Fortran code goes wrong because it has no
> >>> protection against buffer overruns and similar problems, I think.
> >>> --
> >>> Piet van Oostrum 
> >>> URL:http://pietvanoostrum.com[PGP8DAE142BE17999C4]
> >>> Private email: p... at vanoostrum.org
> >> I don't think it's a memory problem, the reason for the hard and easy
> >> queue is because for larger examples it uses far more RAM. If I run
> >> all of workers with harder problems I do begin to run out of RAM and
> >> end up spending all my time switching in and out of swap so I limit
> >> the number of harder problems I run at the same time. I've watched it
> >> run to the end (a very boring couple of hours) and it stays out of my
> >> swap space and everything appears to be staying in RAM. Just hangs
> >> after all "poison" has been printed for each process.
>
> >> The other thing is that I get the message "here" telling me I broke
> >> out of the loop after seeing the poison pill in the process and I get
> >> all the things queued listed as output surely if I were to run out of
> >> memory I wouldn't expect all of the jobs to be listed as output.
>
> >> I have a serial script that works fine so I know individually for each
> >> example the fortran code works.
>
> >> Thanks
>
> >> Matt
>
> > Any ideas for a solution?
>
> A workaround is to do them in small batches.
>
> You could put each job in a queue with a flag to say whether it's hard
> or easy, then:
>
> ? ? ?while have more jobs:
> ? ? ? ? ?move up to BATCH_SIZE jobs into worker queues
> ? ? ? ? ?create and start workers
> ? ? ? ? ?wait for workers to finish
> ? ? ? ? ?discard workers

Yeah, I was hoping for something with a bit more finesse. In the end I
used pool instead with a callback function and that has solved the
problem. I did today find this snippet;

Joining processes that use queues

    Bear in mind that a process that has put items in a queue will
wait before terminating until all the buffered items are fed by the
?feeder? thread to the underlying pipe. (The child process can call
the Queue.cancel_join_thread() method of the queue to avoid this
behaviour.)

    This means that whenever you use a queue you need to make sure
that all items which have been put on the queue will eventually be
removed before the process is joined. Otherwise you cannot be sure
that processes which have put items on the queue will terminate.
Remember also that non-daemonic processes will be automatically be
joined.


I don't know (not a computer scientist) but could it have been the
pipe getting full?

In case anyway else is effected by this I've attached the new code to
see the changes I made to fix it.

Thanks for all your help

Matt

============================================================================================================================
parallel.py
============================================================================================================================
import GaussianProcessRegression as GP
import numpy as np
import networkx as nx
import pickle
from multiprocessing import Pool

global result

def cb(r):
    global result
    print r
    result[r[0]] = r[1]


############################################################################################
# Things You Can Change
############################################################################################
#savefiles
savefile = "powerlaw"
graphfile = "powerlawgraph"
#sample sizes
num_graphs = 5
num_sets_of_data = 10
#other things...
intervals = np.ceil(np.logspace(-2,1,50)*500)
noise = [np.sqrt(0.1),np.sqrt(0.01),np.sqrt(0.001),np.sqrt(0.0001)]
num_hard_workers = 5
hard_work_threshold = 4000
############################################################################################
#generate graphs
graphs  = []
for i in range(0,num_graphs):
    graphs.append(nx.powerlaw_cluster_graph(500,0.1,0.05))
#save them for later reference
filehandler = open(graphfile,'w')
pickle.dump(graphs,filehandler,-1)
filehandler.close()

#queues
easy_work = []
hard_work = []

#construct the items in the hard queue
l=0
for j in range(0,len(intervals)):
    for i in range(0,len(noise)):
        for k in range(0,num_graphs):
            if int(intervals[j]) <=hard_work_threshold:
                easy_work.append({'datapt': l,'graph': graphs
[k],'noise': noise[i],'number_of_sets_of_data':
num_sets_of_data,'number_of_data_points':int(intervals[j])})
            else:
                hard_work.append({'datapt': l,'graph': graphs
[k],'noise': noise[i],'number_of_sets_of_data':
num_sets_of_data,'number_of_data_points':int(intervals[j])})
            l+=1

result = np.zeros(l)

#create pool with all cores possible
worker_pool = Pool()

for i in xrange(0,len(easy_work)):
    worker_pool.apply_async(GP.RandomWalkGeneralizationErrorParallel,
(easy_work[i],),callback=cb)

worker_pool.close()
worker_pool.join()

#create hard work queue
worker_pool = Pool(processes = num_hard_workers)

for i in xrange(0,len(hard_work)):
    worker_pool.apply_async(GP.RandomWalkGeneralizationErrorParallel,
(hard_work[i],),callback=cb)

worker_pool.close()
worker_pool.join()


finaldata = result.reshape((len(intervals),len(noise),num_graphs))
np.save(savefile,finaldata)

================================================================================================================================================
GaussianProcessRegression.py
================================================================================================================================================
import CovarianceFunction as CF
import networkx as nx
import numpy as np
import scipy.linalg as sp
#fortran code from lapack-blas (hopefully when scipy updated this wont
be needed)
import dtrsv

#Currently we assume Gaussian noise TODO change to general noise
#Assume 0 mean TODO change to general mean Gaussian Process
class GaussianProcessRegression:
    def __init__(self,covariance_function,sigma):
        #a covariance function object defined in CovarianceFunction
class
        #note this uses the parent class but any children can be used
        self.C = covariance_function
        #a list of pts that are known and their values
        self.pts = []
        self.vals = []
        #the inverse of K as defined in
        #@book{coolen05:theoryofneural,
	    #ISBN = {0-19-853024-2},
	    #publisher = {Oxford University Press, USA},
	    #author = {Coolen, A. C. C. and K{\"{u}}hn, R. and Sollich, P.},
	    #title = {Theory of neural information processing systems},
	    #year = {2005},
        #}
        self.K = np.array([])
        #gaussian noise variable
        self.sigma = float(sigma)
        self.cholL = np.array([])


    def add_data_points(self,points,vals):
       #add all points to list
       self.pts += points
       self.vals += vals
       arraysize = len(self.pts)
       #construct K
       K = np.zeros((arraysize,arraysize))
       #for speed
       pts = self.pts
       between_points = self.C.between_points
       if len(self.K):
            K[:-1,:-1] = self.K
       for i in xrange(0,arraysize):
           for j in xrange(arraysize-len(points),arraysize):
                 K[i,j] = between_points(pts[i],pts[j])
                 K[j,i] = K[i,j]
       K[arraysize-len(points):arraysize,arraysize-len
(points):arraysize] =  K[arraysize-len(points):arraysize,arraysize-len
(points):arraysize] + self.sigma**2 * np.eye(len(points))
       self.K = K

    #calculate the prediction of a point based on data previously
given
    def point_prediction(self,points):
        mean = []
        variance =[]
        arraysize = len(self.pts)
        #cholesky
        #if self.cholL.shape[0] < arraysize:
        L=np.linalg.cholesky(self.K)
        #    self.cholL = L
        #else:
        #    L = self.cholL

        alpha = sp.cho_solve((L,1),self.vals)
        #create L in banded form
        k=np.zeros((arraysize,len(points)))
 
##################################################################
        #for speed get ref to functions im going to use and save them
        between_points = self.C.between_points
        pts = self.pts
        dot = np.dot
 
##################################################################
        for j in xrange(0,len(points)):
            #create k
            for i in xrange(0,arraysize):
                k[i,j] = between_points(pts[i],points[j])

        #calculate mean and variance
        #call the command for forward substitution
        ###############fortran
call#######################################
        v = dtrsv.dtrsv('L','N',arraysize,L,k)
 
##################################################################

        #result
        mean=dot(alpha,k)
        for i in xrange(0,len(points)):
            variance.append(between_points(points[i],points[i]) - dot(v
[:,i],v[:,i]))
        #return it in dictionary form
        return {'mean':mean,'variance':variance}


    # calculate the error for data given, where function is a vector
    # of the function evaluated at a sufficiently large number of
points
    # that the GPregression has been trying to learn
    def error(self,function):
        total = 0
        #sum up variances
        result = self.point_prediction(function[::2])
        total = np.sum(result['variance'])
        total = (1/float(len(function)/2))*total
        return total

    #clear what has been learnt so far
    def clear(self):
        self.pts = []
        self.vals = []
        self.K = np.array([])

    #calculate the average error for a function defined in function
when give
    #number_of_examples examples
    def average_error_over_samples(self,function, sample_size,
number_of_examples):
        avg = 0
        numberofpoints = len(function)/2
        for i in range(0,sample_size):
            self.clear()
            #generate points of the function
            permpts = np.random.randint
(0,numberofpoints,number_of_examples)
            #create the vectors
            pts = []
            vals = []
            for j in range(0,number_of_examples):
                pts.append(function[permpts[j]*2])
                vals.append(function[permpts[j]*2+1])

            #learn these points
            self.add_data_points(pts,vals)
            #print("points added")
            avg = avg + self.error(function)
        avg = avg/sample_size
        return avg





From jura.grozni at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 10:55:42 2009
From: jura.grozni at gmail.com (azrael)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 07:55:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: wxpython question
Message-ID: <11f24035-bd42-4df8-879a-2e2558ee45ee@d23g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>

Is there maybe a method bounded to the class SpinCtrl() that could
hide the widget. One that is maybe also implemented in any other
control.

self.spcKvadDo = wx.SpinCtrl(id=-1, initial=0, max=1000000, min=0,
name='spcKvadDo', parent=self.pnlFilteri, pos=wx.Point(10, 10),
size=wx.Size(118, 21), style=wx.SP_ARROW_KEYS)

self.spcKvadOd.XXX()

I tried it with the SetTransparent() method but it did not work. Has
anyone any Idea?


From ebonak at hotmail.com  Mon Aug 10 10:55:42 2009
From: ebonak at hotmail.com (Esmail)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 10:55:42 -0400
Subject: compression level with tarfile (w:gz) ?
In-Reply-To: <20090810134108.GA7790@axis.g33x.de>
References:  <20090810134108.GA7790@axis.g33x.de>
Message-ID: 

Hi Lars,

Lars Gust?bel wrote:
> 
> How much smaller is it? I did a test with a recent Linux kernel source tree
> which made an archive of 337MB. Command-line gzip was ahead of Python's
> GzipFile() by just 20200 bytes(!) with an archive of about 74MB.
> 
>> Is the only way to accomplish the higher rate to create a tar file
>> and then use a different module to gzip it (assuming I can specify
>> the compression level there)?
> 
> If you need the disk space that badly, the alternative would be to pipe
> tarfile's output to command-line gzip somehow:

Thanks for the additional info and the workaround. I was mostly just
curious if there was a way to specify the compression level, so far
I'm ok with the generated file sizes, but it's good to know that there
are other options to specify my own compression level.

Thanks again,

Esmail



From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Mon Aug 10 10:55:51 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:55:51 +0200
Subject: With or without leading underscore...
In-Reply-To: <5un5l6-fvn.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
References: <5un5l6-fvn.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: 

10-08-2009 Ulrich Eckhardt  wrote:

> So, the type is a part of the public API, but its constructor is not.  
> Should
> I mark the type as private (with a leading underscore) or not?

IMHO you shouldn't (i.e. name should be marked "public") because of
possible usage of e.g. "isinstance(foo, YourType)".

Cheers,
*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From lutz at rmi.net  Mon Aug 10 10:58:11 2009
From: lutz at rmi.net (Mark Lutz)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 07:58:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Florida Python training in October
Message-ID: 

We're pleased to announce a new venue for our Python classes.
Python author and trainer Mark Lutz will be teaching a 3-day
Python class on October 20-22, in Sarasota, Florida.  Come
spend 3 days mastering Python, and enjoy all that Florida and
its Gulf Coast have to offer while you're here.

This is a public training session open to individual enrollments,
and covers the same topics and hands-on lab work as the over 200
onsite sessions that Mark has taught.  The class provides an
in-depth introduction to both Python and its common applications,
and parallels the instructor's best-selling Python books.

This class is also newly retooled to cover recent changes in
both Python 2.6 and 3.1.  Whether you're using 2.X, using 3.X,
or stuck somewhere between them, you'll find that our class is
aimed at your needs.  For more information on this session,
please visit its web page:

http://home.earthlink.net/~python-training/2009-public-classes.htm

For additional background on the class itself, as well as a
preview of our 2010 Florida class schedule, see our home page:

http://home.earthlink.net/~python-training

Thanks for your interest,
--Mark Lutz's Python Training Services


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Mon Aug 10 10:58:47 2009
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 07:58:47 -0700
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
In-Reply-To: 
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

Douglas Alan wrote:
> So, what's the one obvious right way to express "foo\zbar"? Is it
>    "foo\zbar"
> or
>    "foo\\zbar"
> And if it's the latter, what possible benefit is there in allowing the
> former?  And if it's the former, why does Python echo the latter?

Actually, if we were designing from fresh (with no C behind us), I might
advocate for "\s" to be the escape sequence for a backslash.  I don't
particularly like that it is hard to see if the following string
contains a tab:   "abc\\\\\\\\\table".  The string rules reflect C's
rules, and I see little excuse for trying to change them now.

--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Mon Aug 10 11:00:34 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 17:00:34 +0200
Subject: reloading the module imported as 'from ... import ...'
References: <4A7F976D.7090600@ggmail.com>
	
	<4A7FB4AF.7060107@ggmail.com>
	
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Steven D'Aprano  (SD) wrote:

>SD> On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 22:48:31 -0700, AlF wrote:
>>> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 20:43:41 -0700, AlF wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> 
>>>>> what is the best way to reload the module imported using 'from ...
>>>>> import ...'
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Have you tried "from ... import ..." again?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> I have not because of an assumption that "import" imports the module
>>> just once. 

>SD> Ah, of course the cached module will still reflect the older version. 
>SD> Sorry, I was thinking about solving a different problem:

If you do a reload in between the cached version is replaced by the new
version. However, objects from the old module that have references
before the reload will still lie around. This could cause very subtle
bugs.

Python 2.6.2 (r262:71600, Apr 16 2009, 09:17:39) 
[GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 5250)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import testmod
>>> from testmod import TestClass
>>> a = TestClass()
>>> b = TestClass()
>>> a.__class__ is b.__class__
True
>>> reload(testmod)

>>> c = TestClass()
>>> c.__class__ is a.__class__
True
>>> from testmod import TestClass
>>> d = TestClass()
>>> d.__class__ is a.__class__
False

-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From cornelius.keller at googlemail.com  Mon Aug 10 11:07:28 2009
From: cornelius.keller at googlemail.com (Cornelius Keller)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 08:07:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: variable & scoping question.
Message-ID: 

Hi,

I'm a quite fresh python programmer, (6 Month python experience).
Today I found something I absolotly don'nt understand:

given the following function:

def test_effect(class_id=None,class_ids=[]):
    if class_id is not None:
        if class_id not in class_ids:
            class_ids.append(int(class_id))

    print class_ids

I observe that the class_ids array is growing when it is called with
different class id's.

I expected class_ids to be [] if the keyword argument is not set, but
it seems to beahve like a static variable if not set.

example:


In [3]: test.test_effect(class_id=1)
[1]

In [4]: test.test_effect(class_id=1)
[1]

In [5]: test.test_effect(class_id=2)
[1, 2]

In [6]: test.test_effect(class_id=2)
[1, 2]

In [7]: test.test_effect(class_id=3)
[1, 2, 3]

Is this an intended python beahviour?

sincerly
- Cornelius






From deets at nospam.web.de  Mon Aug 10 11:12:29 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 17:12:29 +0200
Subject: variable & scoping question.
References: 
Message-ID: <7earmtF2f4tvnU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Cornelius Keller wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I'm a quite fresh python programmer, (6 Month python experience).
> Today I found something I absolotly don'nt understand:
> 
> given the following function:
> 
> def test_effect(class_id=None,class_ids=[]):
> ? ? if class_id is not None:
> ? ? ? ? if class_id not in class_ids:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? class_ids.append(int(class_id))
> 
> ? ? print class_ids
> 
> I observe that the class_ids array is growing when it is called with
> different class id's.
> 
> I expected class_ids to be [] if the keyword argument is not set, but
> it seems to beahve like a static variable if not set.

http://effbot.org/zone/default-values.htm

Diez


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 11:13:05 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 08:13:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 9, 11:02?pm, David Lyon  wrote:
> Since you're talking about documentation, which is a part of python,
> don't you think you should be discussing it on python-dev ?

Yea, them's be a friendly bunch to noob ideas ;). Hey i got a better
idea, lets go to the IRS and see if we can persuade them to stop
taxing us...

> That's where discussions about the documentation should be held.
> haha - I'm just curious to see how long it will for them to
> shut the discussion down.

Yea, probably not long at all, of course not before the troll calling,
bulling, defamation of character, etc, has lost it's fun.

> Before you do that, you should clearly work out in your own mind
> how you think things need to improve. It's not good enough just
> saying this or that is bad without having specific ideas on what
> needs to change.

see links that xah posted, and there is more he did not post.

> Good luck fellow sinner and blasphemer...
> How dare you suggest that things could be improved...

how dare YOU suggest they NOT be improved!!!


From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 11:21:03 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 08:21:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: <86e09602-7eb1-4397-a77f-fb1e3c5b34b9@k26g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 10, 10:58?am, Scott David Daniels 
wrote:

>?The string rules reflect C's rules, and I see little
> excuse for trying to change them now.

No they don't. Or at least not C++'s rules. C++ behaves exactly as I
should like.

(Or at least g++ does. Or rather *almost* as I would like, as by
default it generates a warning for "foo\zbar", while I think that an
error would be somewhat preferable.)

But you're right, it's too late to change this now.

|>ouglas



From samwyse at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 11:21:49 2009
From: samwyse at gmail.com (samwyse)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 08:21:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: setting Referer for urllib.urlretrieve
References: <1668f798-0a73-47a5-9f87-34312109c67c@v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<028ed082$0$20617$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <73d9e384-30a0-4927-ac73-722d11c06d15@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 9, 9:41?am, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
> On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 06:13:38 -0700,samwysewrote:
> > Here's what I have so far:
>
> > import urllib
>
> > class AppURLopener(urllib.FancyURLopener):
> > ? ? version = "App/1.7"
> > ? ? referrer = None
> > ? ? def __init__(self, *args):
> > ? ? ? ? urllib.FancyURLopener.__init__(self, *args)
> > ? ? ? ? if self.referrer:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? addheader('Referer', self.referrer)
>
> > urllib._urlopener = AppURLopener()
>
> > Unfortunately, the 'Referer' header potentially varies for each url that
> > I retrieve, and the way the module is written, I can't change the calls
> > to __init__ or open. The best idea I've had is to assign a new value to
> > my class variable just before calling urllib.urlretrieve(), but that
> > just seems ugly. ?Any ideas? ?Thanks.
>
> [Aside: an int variable is an int. A str variable is a str. A list
> variable is a list. A class variable is a class. You probably mean a
> class attribute, not a variable. If other languages want to call it a
> variable, or a sausage, that's their problem.]
>
> If you're prepared for a bit of extra work, you could take over all the
> URL handling instead of relying on automatic openers. This will give you
> much finer control, but it will also require more effort on your part.
> The basic idea is, instead of installing openers, and then ask the urllib
> module to handle the connection, you handle the connection yourself:
>
> make a Request object using urllib2.Request
> make an Opener object using urllib2.build_opener
> call opener.open(request) to connect to the server
> deal with the connection (retry, fail or read)
>
> Essentially, you use the Request object instead of a URL, and you would
> add the appropriate referer header to the Request object.
>
> Another approach, perhaps a more minimal change than the above, would be
> something like this:
>
> # untested
> class AppURLopener(urllib.FancyURLopener):
> ? ? version = "App/1.7"
> ? ? def __init__(self, *args):
> ? ? ? ? urllib.FancyURLopener.__init__(self, *args)
> ? ? def add_referrer(self, url=None):
> ? ? ? ? if url:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? addheader('Referer', url)
>
> urllib._urlopener = AppURLopener()
> urllib._urlopener.add_referrer("http://example.com/")

Thanks for the ideas.  I'd briefly considered something similar to
your first idea, implementing my own version of urlretrieve to accept
a Request object, but it does seem like a good bit of work.  Maybe
over Labor Day.  :)

The second idea is pretty much what I'm going to go with for now.  The
program that I'm writing is almost a clone of wget, but it fixes some
personal dislikes with the way recursive retrievals are done.  (Or
maybe I just don't understand wget's full array of options well
enough.)  This means that my referrer changes as I bounce up and down
the hierarchy, which makes this less convenient.  Still, it does seem
more convenient that re-writing the module from scratch.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Aug 10 11:25:20 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:25:20 +0100
Subject: Processes not exiting
In-Reply-To: <049e9160-5a92-47b9-9ac6-8e01573d5689@p15g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: <6cfb2f39-c6d6-4d2a-882c-18f21addf206@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>		<61d7fcbb-17f8-4314-90b6-0a6db22abd6d@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>	<01b55c48-3252-4cec-8781-98487a9071ae@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
		
	<996e50f5-c126-4ac2-ae8d-458d22a26ee1@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4b564f49-712c-408a-b8bd-9cff5af4a4fe@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<049e9160-5a92-47b9-9ac6-8e01573d5689@p15g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A803BE0.3090902@mrabarnett.plus.com>

ma3mju wrote:
> On 7 Aug, 16:02, MRAB  wrote:
>> ma3mju wrote:
>>> On 3 Aug, 09:36, ma3mju  wrote:
>>>> On 2 Aug, 21:49, Piet van Oostrum  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> MRAB  (M) wrote:
>>>>>> M> I wonder whether one of the workers is raising an exception, perhaps due
>>>>>> M> to lack of memory, when there are large number of jobs to process.
>>>>> But that wouldn't prevent the join. And you would probably get an
>>>>> exception traceback printed.
>>>>> I wonder if something fishy is happening in the multiprocessing
>>>>> infrastructure. Or maybe the Fortran code goes wrong because it has no
>>>>> protection against buffer overruns and similar problems, I think.
>>>>> --
>>>>> Piet van Oostrum 
>>>>> URL:http://pietvanoostrum.com[PGP8DAE142BE17999C4]
>>>>> Private email: p... at vanoostrum.org
>>>> I don't think it's a memory problem, the reason for the hard and easy
>>>> queue is because for larger examples it uses far more RAM. If I run
>>>> all of workers with harder problems I do begin to run out of RAM and
>>>> end up spending all my time switching in and out of swap so I limit
>>>> the number of harder problems I run at the same time. I've watched it
>>>> run to the end (a very boring couple of hours) and it stays out of my
>>>> swap space and everything appears to be staying in RAM. Just hangs
>>>> after all "poison" has been printed for each process.
>>>> The other thing is that I get the message "here" telling me I broke
>>>> out of the loop after seeing the poison pill in the process and I get
>>>> all the things queued listed as output surely if I were to run out of
>>>> memory I wouldn't expect all of the jobs to be listed as output.
>>>> I have a serial script that works fine so I know individually for each
>>>> example the fortran code works.
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Matt
>>> Any ideas for a solution?
>> A workaround is to do them in small batches.
>>
>> You could put each job in a queue with a flag to say whether it's hard
>> or easy, then:
>>
>>      while have more jobs:
>>          move up to BATCH_SIZE jobs into worker queues
>>          create and start workers
>>          wait for workers to finish
>>          discard workers
> 
> Yeah, I was hoping for something with a bit more finesse. In the end I
> used pool instead with a callback function and that has solved the
> problem. I did today find this snippet;
> 
> Joining processes that use queues
> 
>     Bear in mind that a process that has put items in a queue will
> wait before terminating until all the buffered items are fed by the
> ?feeder? thread to the underlying pipe. (The child process can call
> the Queue.cancel_join_thread() method of the queue to avoid this
> behaviour.)
> 
>     This means that whenever you use a queue you need to make sure
> that all items which have been put on the queue will eventually be
> removed before the process is joined. Otherwise you cannot be sure
> that processes which have put items on the queue will terminate.
> Remember also that non-daemonic processes will be automatically be
> joined.
> 
> 
> I don't know (not a computer scientist) but could it have been the
> pipe getting full?
> 
> In case anyway else is effected by this I've attached the new code to
> see the changes I made to fix it.
> 
[snip]
Maybe the reason is this:

Threads share an address space, so putting data into a queue simply
involves putting a reference there, but processes don't share an address
space, so a sender must continue to exist until the data itself has been
copied into the pipe that connects the processes. This pipe has a
limited capacity.

In your code you were waiting for the easy workers to terminate and you
weren't reading from the queue, and maybe, therefore, the pipe either,
so with a large number of jobs the pipe was becoming full.

In summary: the worker didn't terminate because the pipe was full; the
pipe was full because you weren't reading the results; you weren't
reading the results because the worker hadn't terminated.


From bieffe62 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 11:36:52 2009
From: bieffe62 at gmail.com (Francesco Bochicchio)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 08:36:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: variable & scoping question.
References: 
	<7earmtF2f4tvnU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 10, 5:12?pm, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
> Cornelius Keller wrote:
> > Hi,
>
> > I'm a quite fresh python programmer, (6 Month python experience).
> > Today I found something I absolotly don'nt understand:
>
> > given the following function:
>
> > def test_effect(class_id=None,class_ids=[]):
> > ? ? if class_id is not None:
> > ? ? ? ? if class_id not in class_ids:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? class_ids.append(int(class_id))
>
> > ? ? print class_ids
>
> > I observe that the class_ids array is growing when it is called with
> > different class id's.
>
> > I expected class_ids to be [] if the keyword argument is not set, but
> > it seems to beahve like a static variable if not set.
>
> http://effbot.org/zone/default-values.htm
>
> Diez

Maybe on the first page of python.org there should be a 'python
gotchas' link to a page listing these few
non-intuituive peculiarities of our beloved snake ... same goes for
the official python tutorial ...

Ciao
-----
FB



From cornelius.keller at googlemail.com  Mon Aug 10 11:46:17 2009
From: cornelius.keller at googlemail.com (Cornelius Keller)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 08:46:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: variable & scoping question.
References: 
	<7earmtF2f4tvnU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <93c50fc3-2cf9-4fc6-9919-cde7cfd273e6@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>

On 10 Aug., 17:12, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
> Cornelius Keller wrote:
[snip]
>
> http://effbot.org/zone/default-values.htm
>
> Diez

Ok thank you.
I' understand now why.
I still think this is very confusing, because default values don't
behave like most people would expect without reading the docs.

- Cornelius


From MatzeGuentert at gmx.de  Mon Aug 10 11:55:06 2009
From: MatzeGuentert at gmx.de (Matthias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=FCntert?=)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 17:55:06 +0200
Subject: M2Crypto: How to generate subjectKeyIdentifier /
	authorityKeyIdentifier
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: <1249919706.3267.239.camel@celsius>

Now I have this patch applied to the M2Crypto SVN branch 




From piet at cs.uu.nl  Mon Aug 10 11:58:27 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 17:58:27 +0200
Subject: Problem Regarding Handling of Unicode string
References: <9ac0e194-9e25-468a-9807-957ef3142dd3@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

>>>>> joy99  (j) wrote:

>j> Dear Group,
>j> I am using Python26 on WindowsXP with service pack2. My GUI is IDLE.
>j> I am using Hindi resources and get nice output like:
>j> ??
>j> where I can use all the re functions and other functions without doing
>j> any transliteration,etc.
>j> I was trying to use Bengali but it is giving me output like:
>j> '\xef\xbb\xbf\xe0\xa6\x85\xe0\xa6\xa8\xe0\xa7\x87\xe0\xa6\x95'
>j> I wanted to see Bengali output as
>j> ????
>j> and I like to use all functions including re.
>j> If any one can help me on that.
>j> Best Regards,
>j> Subhabrata.

Make sure your stdout (in case you use print) has utf-8 encoding. This
might be problematic on Windows, however.

>>> print '\xef\xbb\xbf\xe0\xa6\x85\xe0\xa6\xa8\xe0\xa7\x87\xe0\xa6\x95'
????

Or if you write to a file, open it with utf-8 encoding.

I take utf-8 because in general this is the preferred encoding for
non-ASCII text. It could be that Bengali has a different preferred encoding.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From davea at ieee.org  Mon Aug 10 12:03:19 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 12:03:19 -0400
Subject: Client/Server based on SocketServer and Windows
In-Reply-To: <979ad93c-0257-4add-8fb7-b56e253e3fb7@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
References: 	
	<979ad93c-0257-4add-8fb7-b56e253e3fb7@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A8044C7.1080203@ieee.org>

Kiki wrote:
> Thank you Dennis
>
> I'm using 2 differents editor, which may be the cause of such a mess
> in the indentation.
>
> I must admitt that I lazily rely on those (not so bad indeed) editors.
>
> "If indentation whas bad they would have tell me"
>
> Too bad am i
>
> Won't post misindeted code anymore.
>
>   
No problem using multiple editors.  But you need to configure each one 
to *never* put tabs in the file (it should use spaces exclusively).  If 
you can't do that in one of the editors, then use the other editor 
exclusively.

Other useful but not mandatory features -
    - when tab is pressed, it should indent using spaces, to a multiple 
of 4 columns.
    - by default, indent a new line the same as the previous, or even 
based on the previous plus some syntax rules.
    - make tabs and/or spaces visible, so you can tell if the file has a 
mixture.

DaveA
  


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 12:09:17 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:09:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: www.python.org website is down?
References: 
	
	<1d952f0b-9552-48ef-ad2e-a7b8e06ea8eb@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <6f54e63f-9f98-46a6-aff2-7b93a78b683b@e18g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 10, 9:13?am, MRAB  wrote:
> r wrote:
> > On Aug 8, 8:48 am, MRAB  wrote:
> > ...(snip)
> >> Bothwww.python.organdsvn.python.org are down. ?They're hosted on
> >> the same machine, and it seems to have run into disk problems and
> >> hasn't rebooted even after power-cycling. ?Thomas Wouters will be
> >> visiting the machine physically tomorrow to try to diagnose the
> >> problem.
>
> > Oh stop lying MRAB, everybody knows Guido hosts Python.org from his
> > attic on an old Linux box :-)
>
> That was a quote from A.M. Kuchling.
>
> It's actually hosted on a matchbox-sized multi-core multi-terabyte
> wifi-enabled Linux machine that Guido brought back from 2050.
> Unfortunately, the dog ate it, so he's had to go and buy another one!
> :-)

i just hope he gets one that has supported wifi drivers available! :-)


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Mon Aug 10 12:13:34 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:13:34 -0700
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 			<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>		<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>		<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro	ups.com>
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>			<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4A80472E.4090108@stoneleaf.us>

Kee Nethery wrote:
> As someone trying to learn the language I want to say that the tone on  
> this list towards people who are trying to learn Python  feels like it  
> has become anti-newbies.
> 
> Learning a new language is difficult enough without seeing other  
> newbies getting shamed for not knowing everything there is to know  
> about Python before asking their questions.
> 
> For example, the guy who was looking for Python sample code for the  
> Google Map API, calling him a troll was harsh. Suggesting he broach  the 
> question to Google was a reasonable answer. By the same token, his  
> asking this list about the missing Python examples seems reasonable  
> also. Seems to me that people on a Python list might have some  
> background knowledge or even samples of the Google Python code that  was 
> no longer on the Google web site.
> 
> There seems to be a general consensus among the newbies that other  
> languages have a user contributions resource tied to the main official  
> docs to allow newbies to teach each other what they have learned. The  
> desire is for python.org to have the same kind of support resource so  
> that us newbies can self support each other.
> 
> Kee Nethery

As someone who is (hopefully!) leaving newbieness I can say I have had 
no problem with the helpfullness of this list.  I will also say that 
before I ever posted any questions I had devoured Dive Into Python and 
How To Think Like a Computer Scientist Using Python (both excellent), 
and I try to put as much detail into my questions as I can so nobody has 
to guess what I'm trying to do.

As someone who relies heavily on the docs I will also say that the idea 
of giving the ability to modify the official documentation to somebody 
who is /learning/ the language is, quite frankly, terrifying.  I have no 
issues with a seperate system, some of which have been suggested, but 
good reference documentation is crucial.  If you find examples lacking, 
there are plenty of web-sites, or even (dare I say it?) actual hard-copy 
books!  ;)  My bookshelf currently has Learning Python, Programming 
Python, Python Cookbook, Python Programming on Win32, and Regular 
Expressions.  All great books, and not too pricey if you can get them used.

My $0.02.

~Ethan~


From dorzey at googlemail.com  Mon Aug 10 12:15:07 2009
From: dorzey at googlemail.com (dorzey)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:15:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Problem when fetching page using urllib2.urlopen
References: <2f1086ba-26ba-42a8-b5de-27581fa853e3@12g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<0579ebc0-2542-4f96-af3e-9861ad646b13@d9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

"geturl - this returns the real URL of the page fetched. This is
useful because urlopen (or the opener object used) may have followed a
redirect. The URL of the page fetched may not be the same as the URL
requested." from http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/articles/urllib2.shtml#info-and-geturl

It might be worth checking that you are actually getting the page you
want; I seem to remember that semicolons need to be encoded, similar
to '&'.

Dorzey

On Aug 10, 12:43?pm, jitu  wrote:
> On Aug 10, 4:39?pm, jitu  wrote:
>
> > Hi,
>
> > A html page ?contains 'anchor' elements with 'href' attribute ?having
> > a semicolon ?in the url , while fetching the page using
> > urllib2.urlopen, all such href's ?containing ?'semicolons' are
> > truncated.
>
> > For example the hrefhttp://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide-6901959-pune_restaurants-i;_ylt...
> > get truncated tohttp://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide-6901959-pune_restaurants-i
>
> > The page I am talking about can be fetched fromhttp://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide-485468-pune_india_vacations-i;_...
>
> > Thanks a Lot
> > Regards
> > jitu
>
> Hi
>
> ? ?Sorry, the question what I wanted to ask was, whether is this the
> correct behaviour or a bug ?
>
> Thanks A Lot.
> Regards
> jitu



From MatzeGuentert at gmx.de  Mon Aug 10 12:19:17 2009
From: MatzeGuentert at gmx.de (Matthias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=FCntert?=)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:19:17 +0000
Subject: M2Crypto: How to generate subjectKeyIdentifier /
	authorityKeyIdentifier
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: <1249921157.3267.263.camel@celsius>

Hello once again

Now I have the extension-patch [0] applied to the M2Crypto SVN branch
(revision 704). Creating a root and an subRoot CA certificate now works
great including the SKID/AKID extensions. 

I am also able to verify those created certificates using:

$ openssl verify -CAfile rootCA.crt rootCA.crt 
rootCA.crt: OK

$ openssl verify -CAfile rootCA.crt subRootCA.crt 
subRootCA.crt: OK

But having a closer look onto the generated key ID's shows that there is
either something wrong in the way I am adding the subjectKeyIdentifier
extension or the way the hash gets calculated in the background. 

This are the hashes:

__rootCA__			
SKID F4:EF:64:5F:7A:A2:2A:14:14:F9:AE:6E:DB:04:78:0A:8C:6E:02:9F -: A
--> OKAY
AKID F4:EF:64:5F:7A:A2:2A:14:14:F9:AE:6E:DB:04:78:0A:8C:6E:02:9F -: A
--> OKAY

__subRootCA (signed by rootCA)__ 	
SKID DA:39:A3:EE:5E:6B:4B:0D:32:55:BF:EF:95:60:18:90:AF:D8:07:09 -: B
--> OKAY
AKID F4:EF:64:5F:7A:A2:2A:14:14:F9:AE:6E:DB:04:78:0A:8C:6E:02:9F -: A
--> OKAY

__client (signed by rootCA)__
SKID DA:39:A3:EE:5E:6B:4B:0D:32:55:BF:EF:95:60:18:90:AF:D8:07:09 -: B
--> NOT OKAY, should be different from RootCA
AKID F4:EF:64:5F:7A:A2:2A:14:14:F9:AE:6E:DB:04:78:0A:8C:6E:02:9F -: A
--> OKAY

__client (signed by subRootCA)__
SKID DA:39:A3:EE:5E:6B:4B:0D:32:55:BF:EF:95:60:18:90:AF:D8:07:09 -: B
--> NOT OKAY, should be different from subRootCA
AKID DA:39:A3:EE:5E:6B:4B:0D:32:55:BF:EF:95:60:18:90:AF:D8:07:09 -: B
--> OKAY

I really would be happy if someone could have a look at my code [1] as
this extensions are important for verifying the trust chain. Please let
me know if there is anything I can do with my limited knowledge about
OpenSSL to get this working... 

Regards, Matthias 

[0] https://bugzilla.osafoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=5106
[1] http://code.google.com/p/webca/source/browse/trunk/src/ca.py




From gert.cuykens at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 12:41:19 2009
From: gert.cuykens at gmail.com (gert)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:41:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: resume upload wsgi script
References: <36993141-188c-4b13-8819-e60516d27437@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<7e80jlF2etv0kU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	<7e85i3F2fdc1eU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<9cd75067-8839-44dd-9b42-4ffb15488b66@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
	<7e8ildF2f1hcpU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<49e41062-9e0d-4c5e-beca-edb02d3ce6e8@e34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<7ea4lpF2dvr5cU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 10, 10:39?am, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
> > 250KB :)
>
> So why do you bother?
>
> > Its just HTTP1.1 has everything for making ftp like file transfers
> > possible.
> > When I write it to a file then I am back at square one because I still
> > need to load it completely to get it into a blob.
>
> Well, the blob is nothing but datat in the file-system. If you are
> *really* concerned about that, then don't use the db, but use the
> filesystem, appending to the file until it's finished - and storing a
> reference to it to the DB. We do that as well, because otherwise the db
> will become unmanagable anyway (dumping, backups).
>

I also hate debugging sql that contains blob data. So if using files
how do you clean the http post stuff?
(b+r'.*?Content-Type: application/octet-stream\r\n\r\n(.*?)\r
\n--'+b,file,DOTALL)
using as litlle memory as possible ?
I can not use PUT upload only because flash does not support PUT.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Aug 10 12:42:50 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 17:42:50 +0100
Subject: variable & scoping question.
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<7earmtF2f4tvnU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
Message-ID: <4A804E0A.2090202@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Francesco Bochicchio wrote:
> On Aug 10, 5:12 pm, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
>> Cornelius Keller wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> I'm a quite fresh python programmer, (6 Month python experience).
>>> Today I found something I absolotly don'nt understand:
>>> given the following function:
>>> def test_effect(class_id=None,class_ids=[]):
>>>     if class_id is not None:
>>>         if class_id not in class_ids:
>>>             class_ids.append(int(class_id))
>>>     print class_ids
>>> I observe that the class_ids array is growing when it is called with
>>> different class id's.
>>> I expected class_ids to be [] if the keyword argument is not set, but
>>> it seems to beahve like a static variable if not set.
>> http://effbot.org/zone/default-values.htm
>>
>> Diez
> 
> Maybe on the first page of python.org there should be a 'python
> gotchas' link to a page listing these few
> non-intuituive peculiarities of our beloved snake ... same goes for
> the official python tutorial ...
> 
Should they be called 'snake bites'? Well, pythons are constrictors, not
biters, but if Python is being non-intuitive... :-)


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Mon Aug 10 12:55:46 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:55:46 -0700
Subject: variable & scoping question.
In-Reply-To: <93c50fc3-2cf9-4fc6-9919-cde7cfd273e6@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
References: 	<7earmtF2f4tvnU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<93c50fc3-2cf9-4fc6-9919-cde7cfd273e6@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A805112.8020308@stoneleaf.us>

Cornelius Keller wrote:
[snip]

> I still think this is very confusing, because default values don't
> behave like most people would expect without reading the docs.
> 
> - Cornelius

Why would you expect to become a good programmer of _any_ language 
without reading its docs?

~Ethan~


From deets at nospam.web.de  Mon Aug 10 13:11:12 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 19:11:12 +0200
Subject: Problem when fetching page using urllib2.urlopen
References: <2f1086ba-26ba-42a8-b5de-27581fa853e3@12g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<0579ebc0-2542-4f96-af3e-9861ad646b13@d9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <7eb2lgF2ec7u9U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

dorzey wrote:

> "geturl - this returns the real URL of the page fetched. This is
> useful because urlopen (or the opener object used) may have followed a
> redirect. The URL of the page fetched may not be the same as the URL
> requested." from
> http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/articles/urllib2.shtml#info-and-geturl
> 
> It might be worth checking that you are actually getting the page you
> want; I seem to remember that semicolons need to be encoded, similar
> to '&'.

You remember wrong.

http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2396.html

See Section 3.3, path-components.

Diez


From abecedarian314159 at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 10 13:19:31 2009
From: abecedarian314159 at yahoo.com (William)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 10:19:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: reloading the module imported as 'from ... import ...'
In-Reply-To: <4A7FB4AF.7060107@ggmail.com>
References: <4A7F976D.7090600@ggmail.com>
	
	<4A7FB4AF.7060107@ggmail.com>
Message-ID: <208933.60826.qm@web110606.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

What about using the reimport library?

http://code.google.com/p/reimport/

Cheers,
William



________________________________
From: AlF 
To: python-list at python.org
Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 1:48:31 AM
Subject: Re: reloading the module imported as 'from ... import ...'

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 20:43:41 -0700, AlF wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> what is the best way to reload the module imported using 'from ...
>> import ...'
> 
> 
> Have you tried "from ... import ..." again?
> 

I have not because of an assumption that "import" imports the module just once. In fact this still works that way:

here is a terminal 1:

$ cat > a.py
a=1
$ cat > a.py
a=2
$


and terminal 2:

>>> from a import a
>>> a
1
>>> a
1
>>> from a import a
>>> a
1
>>>

In spite of changing a.py in fly, the imported a is still 1


-- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



      
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From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 13:28:25 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 10:28:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: With or without leading underscore...
References: <5un5l6-fvn.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <4d6719e4-217a-4921-bd26-228fd4944eb7@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 10, 7:37?am, Ulrich Eckhardt  wrote:
> ...that is the question!
>
> I have a module which exports a type. It also exports a function that
> returns instances of that type. Now, the reason for my question is that
> while users will directly use instances of the type, they will not create
> instances of the type themselves.
>
> So, the type is a part of the public API, but its constructor is not. Should
> I mark the type as private (with a leading underscore) or not?


I would not use the underscore.

If the initializer is private you might consider dispensing with
__init__ (have it raise TypeError), and initialize it from a "private"
method or classmethod, or even directly from the factory function.
And if you're wondering how the hell you're going to create the object
of type A when you've disabled __init__, see the example classmethod
below.


class A(object):
    def __init__(self,*args,**kwargs):
        raise TypeError('Type not callable; use factory function
instead')

    @classmethod
    def _create_object(cls,initial_value):
        self = object.__new__(cls) # avoid __init__
        self.value = initial_value



Carl Banks


From dorzey at googlemail.com  Mon Aug 10 13:28:51 2009
From: dorzey at googlemail.com (dorzey)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 10:28:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Problem when fetching page using urllib2.urlopen
References: <2f1086ba-26ba-42a8-b5de-27581fa853e3@12g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<0579ebc0-2542-4f96-af3e-9861ad646b13@d9g2000prh.googlegroups.com> 
	 
	<7eb2lgF2ec7u9U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <474e7cc0-f563-4e62-ab9e-61b16451a9bf@q14g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>

On 10 Aug, 18:11, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
> dorzey wrote:
> > "geturl - this returns the real URL of the page fetched. This is
> > useful because urlopen (or the opener object used) may have followed a
> > redirect. The URL of the page fetched may not be the same as the URL
> > requested." from
> >http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/articles/urllib2.shtml#info-and-ge...
>
> > It might be worth checking that you are actually getting the page you
> > want; I seem to remember that semicolons need to be encoded, similar
> > to '&'.
>
> You remember wrong.
>
> http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2396.html
>
> See Section 3.3, path-components.
>
> Diez

My memory has been known to let me down on occasions ;) Thank you for
correcting my mistake.


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 13:29:27 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 10:29:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 10, 4:41?am, MRAB  wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> > On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 17:56:55 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:
>
> [snip]
> >> My point of view is that
> >> every language has *some* warts; Python just has a bit fewer than most.
> >> It would have been nice, I should think, if this wart had been "fixed"
> >> in Python 3, as I do consider it to be a minor wart.
>
> > And if anyone had cared enough to raise it a couple of years back, it
> > possibly might have been.
>
> My preference would've been that a backslash followed by A-Z, a-z, or
> 0-9 is special, but a backslash followed by any other character is just
> the character, except for backslash followed by a newline, which
> suppresses the newline.

That would be reasonable; it'd match the behavior of regexps.


Carl Banks



From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 13:43:08 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 10:43:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: <0702d438-253e-4c8c-a26f-9247d824010a@e4g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 10, 1:37?am, Steven D'Aprano
 wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 00:37:33 -0700, Carl Banks wrote:
> > On Aug 9, 11:10?pm, Steven D'Aprano
> >  wrote:
> >> On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 18:34:14 -0700, Carl Banks wrote:
> >> >> Why should a backslash in a string literal be an error?
>
> >> > Because the behavior of \ in a string is context-dependent, which
> >> > means a reader can't know if \ is a literal character or escape
> >> > character without knowing the context, and it means an innocuous
> >> > change in context can cause a rather significant change in \.
>
> >> *Any* change in context is significant with escapes.
>
> >> "this \nhas two lines"
>
> >> If you change the \n to a \t you get a significant difference. If you
> >> change the \n to a \y you get a significant difference. Why is the
> >> first one acceptable but the second not?
>
> > Because when you change \n to \t, you've haven't changed the meaning of
> > the \ character;
>
> I assume you mean the \ character in the literal, not the (non-existent)
> \ character in the string.
>
> > but when you change \n to \y, you have, and you did so
> > without even touching the backslash.
>
> Not at all.
>
> '\n' maps to the string chr(10).
> '\y' maps to the string chr(92) + chr(121).
>
> In both cases the backslash in the literal have the same meaning: grab
> the next token (usually a single character, but not always), look it up
> in a mapping somewhere, and insert the result in the string object being
> built.

That is a ridiculous rationalization.  Nobody sees "\y" in a string
and thinks "it's an escape sequence that returns the bytes '\y'".


[snip rest, because an argument in favor inconsistent, context-
dependent behavior doesn't need any further refutation than to point
out that it is an argument in favor of inconsistent, context-dependent
behavior]


Carl Banks


From rickbking at comcast.net  Mon Aug 10 13:44:17 2009
From: rickbking at comcast.net (Rick King)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 13:44:17 -0400
Subject: how to use "exec" stmt to get input from user 
Message-ID: <4A805C71.4010809@comcast.net>

I have a cmd.py-derived program (with a wxPython GUI) and want to 
execute python statements for lines that are not my own special commands.

So basically it's either:

    def do_somecommand(self,arg):
        ...

or

    def default(self,arg):
        exec arg in globals(),self.cmdlocals

(where cmdlocals is a my local dictionary)

in default() I'd like to be able to execute any python statement 
including something like

    "x = raw_input('>')"

when I do this though it goes to the command window and so any user of 
the program would be confused, which also means I have to have a command 
window.

If I add this:

    self.stdin = self.edt_console_input   (where self.edt_console_input 
is a wxPython text control)

it just gets an EOF right away.

Is there any way to do what I want to do? This might be better posted on 
the wxpython list.

Thanks for any help!

Rick King
Southfield MI




From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 13:52:05 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 10:52:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	
	
	
	
	<86e09602-7eb1-4397-a77f-fb1e3c5b34b9@k26g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <274a2d6a-a154-4d22-a093-c1c29457f71f@z34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

I wrote:

> But you're right, it's too late to change this now.

P.S. But if it weren't too late, I think that your idea to have "\s"
be the escape sequence for a backslash instead of "\\" might be a good
one.

|>ouglas


From starsareblueandfaraway at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 13:53:13 2009
From: starsareblueandfaraway at gmail.com (Roy Hyunjin Han)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 13:53:13 -0400
Subject: Python documentation servers
Message-ID: <6a5569ec0908101053x53e8070escae5e6535325afb@mail.gmail.com>

Are there issues with the python documentation servers?
http://docs.python.org/
The site has been really slow to respond all weekend.


From 71david at libero.it  Mon Aug 10 14:00:06 2009
From: 71david at libero.it (David)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:00:06 +0200
Subject: wxpython question
References: <11f24035-bd42-4df8-879a-2e2558ee45ee@d23g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Il Mon, 10 Aug 2009 07:55:42 -0700 (PDT), azrael ha scritto:

> Is there maybe a method bounded to the class SpinCtrl() that could
> hide the widget. One that is maybe also implemented in any other
> control.

AFAIK, any widget can be made invisibile calling the .Show(False) method of
the container sizer.
http://docs.wxwidgets.org/stable/wx_wxsizer.html#wxsizershow

David


From dullrich at sprynet.com  Mon Aug 10 14:10:14 2009
From: dullrich at sprynet.com (David C Ullrich)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 13:10:14 -0500
Subject: how to use "exec" stmt to get input from user
References: 
Message-ID: 

What you're trying to do and what's not working isn't 
entirely clear to me.

But if I had a wxPython application and I wanted to
execute user input (note the _if_) I'd just pop up a window
(I forget how "ShowModal" is spelled in wx right now)
with a text box and an Execute button and a Cancel
button - if the user hits the Execute button I'd
attempt to execute what he'd typed in the box.

There are reasons you want to be very careful about
this...

On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 13:44:17 -0400, Rick King wrote:

> I have a cmd.py-derived program (with a wxPython GUI) and want to
> execute python statements for lines that are not my own special
> commands.
> 
> So basically it's either:
> 
>     def do_somecommand(self,arg):
>         ...
> 
> or
> 
>     def default(self,arg):
>         exec arg in globals(),self.cmdlocals
> 
> (where cmdlocals is a my local dictionary)
> 
> in default() I'd like to be able to execute any python statement
> including something like
> 
>     "x = raw_input('>')"
> 
> when I do this though it goes to the command window and so any user of
> the program would be confused, which also means I have to have a command
> window.
> 
> If I add this:
> 
>     self.stdin = self.edt_console_input   (where self.edt_console_input
> is a wxPython text control)
> 
> it just gets an EOF right away.
> 
> Is there any way to do what I want to do? This might be better posted on
> the wxpython list.
> 
> Thanks for any help!
> 
> Rick King
> Southfield MI



From rt8396 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 14:35:39 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 11:35:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: pybotwar-0.5
References:  
	<3e9c5fcd-4047-4edd-b2ec-d892c77e3a69@f33g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 9, 9:46?pm, Mensanator  wrote:
> On Aug 9, 3:26?pm, Lee Harr  wrote:
>
> > pybotwar is a fun and educational game where players
> > create computer programs to control simulated robots
> > to compete in a battle arena.
>
> >http://pybotwar.googlecode.com/
>
> Why is the doc folder empty?
>
> Shouldn't you supply some hint on how the games works
> and at least a rudimentary guide to robot design?
>
> What version to you expect that will be in? 1.0? 10.0?
>
> Could you inform us when you have something worth looking
> at and not before so we don't have to waste our time?

What a bombastically stupid thing to say even for you "Menstrual
cycle". Sure, there is no documentation but maybe the creator meant
for this module to be used only by experienced Python programmers and
not script kiddies like yourself who need a four page tut just to code
up a hello world.py. If you are anything more than an amateur the
source code should be all the documentation you need to use this
module. If not, get on with your pathetic life!

Next time before you open your mouth, try to use those two brain cells
you have left up there and put together a reasonable and responsible
response that is more than just a cowardly put down. Now run along
little spam bot, i am sure one of the other thousands of groups you
post to can't wait for your triumphant return!

r "slayer of the galactic-ly stupid!"


From jcd at sdf.lonestar.org  Mon Aug 10 14:47:19 2009
From: jcd at sdf.lonestar.org (J. Cliff Dyer)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 14:47:19 -0400
Subject: variable & scoping question.
In-Reply-To: <93c50fc3-2cf9-4fc6-9919-cde7cfd273e6@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<7earmtF2f4tvnU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<93c50fc3-2cf9-4fc6-9919-cde7cfd273e6@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1249930039.17682.5.camel@aalcdl07>

On Mon, 2009-08-10 at 08:46 -0700, Cornelius Keller wrote:
> On 10 Aug., 17:12, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
> > Cornelius Keller wrote:
> [snip]
> >
> > http://effbot.org/zone/default-values.htm
> >
> > Diez
> 
> Ok thank you.
> I' understand now why.
> I still think this is very confusing, because default values don't
> behave like most people would expect without reading the docs.
> 
> - Cornelius

You are correct.  This is confusing at first blush.  The important thing
to remember is: *don't do that.*  Learn the pythonic workaround of using
None in your parameters whenever you want a default empty list, and
don't let it bother you too much.  Overall, python is a remarkably well
designed language.  This is one of the relatively rare warts that crept
in because it enables a broader cleanliness of design.

Cheers,
Cliff




From rt8396 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 15:10:08 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 12:10:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python documentation servers
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 10, 12:53?pm, Roy Hyunjin Han
 wrote:
> Are there issues with the python documentation servers?http://docs.python.org/
> The site has been really slow to respond all weekend.

try this thread
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/052368a71f2a8ad2/929bd74bd203c6e8?hl=en&lnk=raot8

PS Just ignore the OT humor near the bottom ;)


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Aug 10 15:11:53 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:11:53 +0100
Subject: pybotwar-0.5
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<3e9c5fcd-4047-4edd-b2ec-d892c77e3a69@f33g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

[snip]
> r "slayer of the galactic-ly stupid!"
Can I assume from this that you intend killing yourself, on the grounds 
that some 10 days ago you couldn't successfully use a windows compiled 
help file?
-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From piet at cs.uu.nl  Mon Aug 10 15:36:55 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 21:36:55 +0200
Subject: Problem when fetching page using urllib2.urlopen
References: <2f1086ba-26ba-42a8-b5de-27581fa853e3@12g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

>>>>> jitu  (j) wrote:

>j> Hi,
>j> A html page  contains 'anchor' elements with 'href' attribute  having
>j> a semicolon  in the url , while fetching the page using
>j> urllib2.urlopen, all such href's  containing  'semicolons' are
>j> truncated.


>j> For example the href http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide-6901959-pune_restaurants-i;_ylt=AlWSqpkpqhICp1lMgChtJkCdGWoL
>j> get truncated to http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide-6901959-pune_restaurants-i

>j> The page I am talking about can be fetched from
>j> http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide-485468-pune_india_vacations-i;_ylc=X3oDMTFka28zOGNuBF9TAzI3NjY2NzkEX3MDOTY5NTUzMjUEc2VjA3NzcC1kZXN0BHNsawN0aXRsZQ--

It's not python that causes this. It is the server that sends you the
URLs without these parameters (that's what they are).

To get them you have to tell the server that you are a respectable
browser. E.g.

import urllib2

url = 'http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide-6901959-pune_restaurants-i;_ylt=AlWSqpkpqhICp1lMgChtJkCdGWoL'

url = 'http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide-485468-pune_india_vacations-i;_ylc=X3oDMTFka28zOGNuBF9TAzI3NjY2NzkEX3MDOTY5NTUzMjUEc2VjA3NzcC1kZXN0BHNsawN0aXRsZQ--'

hdrs = {'User-Agent': 'Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.0.13) Gecko/2009073021 Firefox/3.0.13',
       'Accept': 'image/*'}

request = urllib2.Request(url = url, headers = hdrs)
page = urllib2.urlopen(request).read()

-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Mon Aug 10 15:38:39 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 21:38:39 +0200
Subject: www.python.org website is down?
References: 
	
	<1d952f0b-9552-48ef-ad2e-a7b8e06ea8eb@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

>>>>> MRAB  (M) wrote:

>M> r wrote:
>>> On Aug 8, 8:48 am, MRAB  wrote:
>>> ...(snip)
>>>> Bothwww.python.organd svn.python.org are down.  They're hosted on
>>>> the same machine, and it seems to have run into disk problems and
>>>> hasn't rebooted even after power-cycling.  Thomas Wouters will be
>>>> visiting the machine physically tomorrow to try to diagnose the
>>>> problem.
>>> 
>>> Oh stop lying MRAB, everybody knows Guido hosts Python.org from his
>>> attic on an old Linux box :-)

>M> That was a quote from A.M. Kuchling.

>M> It's actually hosted on a matchbox-sized multi-core multi-terabyte
>M> wifi-enabled Linux machine that Guido brought back from 2050.
>M> Unfortunately, the dog ate it, so he's had to go and buy another one!

The 2050 models can run on the internal heat of a dog !!
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 16:56:57 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 13:56:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	
	
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	 
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro ups.com> 
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	 
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <081115fd-8014-4e6b-8d7b-76d6fcf6a59d@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 10, 11:13?am, Ethan Furman  wrote:
(snip)
> As someone who relies heavily on the docs I will also say that the idea
> of giving the ability to modify the official documentation to somebody
> who is /learning/ the language is, quite frankly, terrifying.
(snip)

Ethan,
I think what you and a few others seem to miss is ... Of course nobody
wants Joe-Noob writing the Python docs -- thats lunacy, would you give
your 12 year old the keys to a shiny new corvette? -- No! What people
are asking for is the ability for a noobs input on the official docs,
and for that input to be taken seriously. Sure some of the suggestions
will be nothing more than "helpful ignoramuses" with unhelpful
suggestions as some have said, but the input channels need to be
there. Currently Python dev seems to be more output than input,
however i could be wrong? We some real I/O going on here.

Also the Python tut is full of fluff (sorry Guido) and it contributes
to late learning of the language. Luckily however Python has many
users who really love the language and have taken the time to write
beautiful tutorials that start at various levels of entry. Read xah's
take on the official tutorial, it's spot on baby!

A little note for tutorial writers:
==================================

Dear Expert,
Whilst writing any tutorial on any subject matter please remember, you
may be an expert, but mostly *non-experts* will be reading your
material... pssft, this may come as a surprise, but tutorials are
meant for *NON-EXPERTS*!

Please refrain from stroking your own ego by obstrufcation of the very
ideas you wish to convey to these influential minds. Sure exposing
your huge intelligence to the world may give you warm-fuzzies-in-your-
tummy, but believe me your poor students will be rendered as helpless
as Paris Hilton at a "panties required" spelling bee.

Please try, and i know this is a lot to ask, to use the most simple
explanation to convey the point -- and *only* the point at hand! Take
for example the introduction of functions. You could go with your gut
instinct, "shoot from the hip" and pop off something like this that
prints a Fibonacci series up to n...

def fib(n):
    a, b = 0, 1
    while b < n:
        print b,
        a, b = b, a+b

>>> fib(2000)
1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610 987 1597

And all you would have accomplished was to blow holes thru the
students mind! Now like the next guy, i love calculating series of
numbers all day, but this is a piss poor example of functions for the
new student, or anybody for that matter!  While your student is
racking his brain trying to figure out what "a" and "b" stand for,
much less n, and not to mention what the heck a "Fibonacci" series is
in the first place (Google can help though) , he (the student) has
forgotten that this example is simply how to write and call a
function. A much better example would be the following...

def add(x, y):
    print x+y

>>> add(1, 2)
3

WOW,  with that small piece of code you have just transported three
main principals of a function in a very simple and strait forward way
smack-dab into the cerebral cortex of the student, and your fingers
did not even break a sweat!

 1. function names should describe exactly what they do
 2. functions take arguments
 3. functions do something with those arguments(like mini programs!)

You could followup with this fine example that extents on the
first...

def add(x, y=2)
    return x+y

>>> add(1,2)

>>> print add(1, 2)
3
>>> print add(1)
3
>>> print add(100, 5.5)
100.5
>>> print add()
error...


However Ethan (and Co.),  not everybody who downloads Python the first
time knows about this. Also the Python website is filled to the brim
with a hodgepodge of "links-here" "links-there", "links-every-freaking-
where" (are we getting paid by the link people?) causing most noobs
brain to start blowing chunks just while tring to find a good
alternative to the official tut!

Really, it's bloat on a proportion that only elephant sized bloat
wares like M$, M$-Office, Adobe-PDF, and the like, can hold a candle
to. Python really needs and enema, and thats no joke!


From mensanator at aol.com  Mon Aug 10 17:01:58 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 14:01:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: pybotwar-0.5
References:  
	<3e9c5fcd-4047-4edd-b2ec-d892c77e3a69@f33g2000vbm.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 10, 1:35?pm, r  wrote:
>
> Sure, there is no documentation

http://www.mensanator.com/mensanator/PythonTurtle/paper.htm



From rickbking at comcast.net  Mon Aug 10 17:36:27 2009
From: rickbking at comcast.net (Rick King)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 17:36:27 -0400
Subject: how to use "exec" stmt to get input from user
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <4A8092DB.3090703@comcast.net>

Thanks for your comment.

The purpose of the application is to automate the manipulation of large 
numbers of files. For automation I want to be able to have scripts that 
I can use for various purposes.

On input, cmd.py handles calling "do_...." methods for known commands; 
for the rest I want to "exec" the lines with my own dictionary. This 
allows me to use python statements, so I can do things like 
concatenating variables to form directory names, and so on. I'd like to 
be able to use any python statement, including "x=raw_input('>')", but 
this currently brings everything to a halt.

One thing this app does is execute processes using wxPythons wx.Process 
object and wx.Execute function. wxPython makes it easy to redirect stdin 
and stdout. I'm trying to do a similar thing for individual python 
statements. I'm not sure that makes sense.

I hope that's clear.

Rick


David C Ullrich wrote:
> What you're trying to do and what's not working isn't 
> entirely clear to me.
>
> But if I had a wxPython application and I wanted to
> execute user input (note the _if_) I'd just pop up a window
> (I forget how "ShowModal" is spelled in wx right now)
> with a text box and an Execute button and a Cancel
> button - if the user hits the Execute button I'd
> attempt to execute what he'd typed in the box.
>
> There are reasons you want to be very careful about
> this...
>
> On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 13:44:17 -0400, Rick King wrote:
>
>   
>> I have a cmd.py-derived program (with a wxPython GUI) and want to
>> execute python statements for lines that are not my own special
>> commands.
>>
>> So basically it's either:
>>
>>     def do_somecommand(self,arg):
>>         ...
>>
>> or
>>
>>     def default(self,arg):
>>         exec arg in globals(),self.cmdlocals
>>
>> (where cmdlocals is a my local dictionary)
>>
>> in default() I'd like to be able to execute any python statement
>> including something like
>>
>>     "x = raw_input('>')"
>>
>> when I do this though it goes to the command window and so any user of
>> the program would be confused, which also means I have to have a command
>> window.
>>
>> If I add this:
>>
>>     self.stdin = self.edt_console_input   (where self.edt_console_input
>> is a wxPython text control)
>>
>> it just gets an EOF right away.
>>
>> Is there any way to do what I want to do? This might be better posted on
>> the wxpython list.
>>
>> Thanks for any help!
>>
>> Rick King
>> Southfield MI
>>     
>
>   
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From longbotham at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 17:38:08 2009
From: longbotham at gmail.com (Nathan)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 14:38:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: numpy array merge
Message-ID: <427654ff-5455-4198-bc86-d810ef3fafd6@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

Is there an easy way to merge two numpy arrays with different rank
sizes (terminology?).  I want to make a single array by concatenating
two arrays along a given direction and filling the excess cells with a
dummy variable.  numpy concatenate works well as long as the two
arrays have the same dimension, but I want to do this on two array
with a matching dimension size.  An example:

import numpy as np
a = np.array([[1,2,3],[4,5,6]])
b = np.array([[1,2],[3,4],[5,6]])
np.concatenate((a,a),axis=1)  #This works fine, but isn't what I need.
Out:  array([[1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3],
       [4, 5, 6, 4, 5, 6]])
np.concatenate((a,b),axis=1)  #This doesn't work, but this is what I
need.

I want to fill the third row of array "a" with a dummy variable (99999
or NaN) and concatenate with "b" to make:
[1,2,3,1,2]
[4,5,6,4,5]
[99999,99999,99999,5,6]

This just seems like it would be relatively common.  So I thought I'd
check if I'm missing something before I go write the logic.  Thanks!


From mail at johannes-janssen.de  Mon Aug 10 17:51:59 2009
From: mail at johannes-janssen.de (Johannes Janssen)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 23:51:59 +0200
Subject: How to find out in which module an instance of a class is created?
In-Reply-To: <4A7F6016.2060408@cheimes.de>
References: <4A7F4874.8030008@johannes-janssen.de>
	<4A7F6016.2060408@cheimes.de>
Message-ID: <4A80967F.9030604@johannes-janssen.de>

Christian Heimes schrieb:
> Johannes Janssen wrote:
>>  > class A(object):
>>  >     def __init__(self, mod=__name__):
>>  >         self.mod = mod
>>
>> .... won't work. In this case mod would always be "foo".
>
> You have to inspect the stack in order to get the module of the 
> caller. The implementation of warnings.warn() gives you some examples 
> how to get the module name.
>
> Christian
>
Thanks for the quick and very helpful reply. Basically just copying from 
warnings.warn(), I came up with this:

import sys

class A(object):
    def __init__(self, mod=None):
        if mod is None:
            self.mod = sys._getframe(1).f_globals['__name__']
        else:
            self.mod = mod

In warnings.warn() they used try around sys._getframe(1). As far as I 
understand what is done in warnings, there it is not sure what object 
caused the warning and therefore it is not sure whether you can or 
cannot use sys._getframe(1). Though in my case it should be quite clear. 
Can I be sure that my code will always work?

Johannes


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Aug 10 18:02:00 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 10 Aug 2009 15:02:00 -0700
Subject: help with threads
References: <5a744bd6-6b9a-4f46-97c1-bb7fd65b8f4c@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

In article <5a744bd6-6b9a-4f46-97c1-bb7fd65b8f4c at l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>,
Michael Mossey   wrote:
>
>I have a simple application that needs one thread to manage networking
>in addition to the main "thread" that does the main job. It's not
>working right. I know hardly anything about threads, so I was hoping
>someone could point me in the right direction to research this.

You might also consider the multiprocessing module.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"...string iteration isn't about treating strings as sequences of strings, 
it's about treating strings as sequences of characters.  The fact that
characters are also strings is the reason we have problems, but characters 
are strings for other good reasons."  --Aahz


From patx44 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 18:12:43 2009
From: patx44 at gmail.com (patx)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 18:12:43 -0400
Subject: fastPATX (a new and simple web browser)
Message-ID: <699f51260908101512n42fa053bj41646f816f8c3f9b@mail.gmail.com>

There was a new release of fastPATX today. However the code and the program
itself will not be available to the public untill Tuesday the 11th. This is
due to me not having the proper tools I need to publish it (I am not at my
"main comp."). This is a bit of an over statement it will probably be
published near midnight Florida time. There are many different places you
can get fastPATX. I will cover them below:
http://bitbucket.org/patx/fastpatx/
http://patx44.appspot.com/
http://www.hawkee.com/snippet/6429/

More places may be out there (mirrors) but I do not know, they are NOT
official but I do 100% support them, and encourage many to mirror fastPATX.

fastPATX official wiki - http://bitbucket.org/patx/fastpatx

JJTComputing have given a great review of fastPATX and it has been linked to
on many site (Tuxmachines). I strongly wish that if you use fastPATX to blog
or tweet (include an @h_erd ???) about, even if you did not like it! Also if
you do like it please follow the project on bitbucket.org >>
http://bitbucket.org/patx/fastpatx/follow/

If you have any questions or suggestions please email me.
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From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 18:17:24 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:17:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<3611ca55-79a6-4336-9041-07d0893789f7@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <0447e8a2-508d-45b2-8d15-da0cc2a56b5f@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>

From: Steven D'Aprano  wrote:

> On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 00:32:30 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:

> > In C++, if I know that the code I'm looking at compiles,
> > then I never need worry that I've misinterpreted what a
> > string literal means.

> If you don't know what your string literals are, you don't
> know what your program does. You can't expect the compiler
> to save you from semantic errors. Adding escape codes into
> the string literal doesn't change this basic truth.

I grow weary of these semantic debates. The bottom line is
that C++'s strategy here catches bugs early on that Python's
approach doesn't. It does so at no additional cost.

>From a purely practical point of view, why would any
language not want to adopt a zero-cost approach to catching
bugs, even if they are relatively rare, as early as
possible?

(Other than the reason that adopting it *now* is sadly too
late.)

Furthermore, Python's strategy here is SPECIFICALLY
DESIGNED, according to the reference manual to catch bugs.
I.e., from the original posting on this issue:

     Unlike Standard C, all unrecognized escape sequences
     are left in the string unchanged, i.e., the backslash
     is left in the string. (This behavior is useful when
     debugging: if an escape sequence is mistyped, the
     resulting output is more easily recognized as broken.)

If this "feature" is designed to catch bugs, why be
half-assed about it? Especially since there seems to be
little valid use case for allowing programmers to be lazy in
their typing here.

> The compiler can't save you from typing 1234 instead of
> 11234, or 31.45 instead of 3.145, or "My darling Ho"
> instead of "My darling Jo", so why do you expect it to
> save you from typing "abc\d" instead of "abc\\d"?

Because in the former cases it can't catch the the bug, and
in the latter case, it can.

> Perhaps it can catch *some* errors of that type, but only
> at the cost of extra effort required to defeat the
> compiler (forcing the programmer to type \\d to prevent
> the compiler complaining about \d). I don't think the
> benefit is worth the cost. You and your friend do. Who is
> to say you're right?

Well, Bjarne Stroustrup, for one.

All of these are value judgments, of course, but I truly
doubt that anyone would have been bothered if Python from
day one had behaved the way that C++ does. Additionally, I
expect that if Python had always behaved the way that C++
does, and then today someone came along and proposed the
behavior that Python currently implements, so that the
programmer could sometimes get away with typing a bit less,
such a person would be chided for not understanding the Zen
of Python.

> > You don't have to go running for the manual every time
> > you see code with backslashes, where the upshot might be
> > that the programmer was merely saving themselves some
> > typing.

> Why do you care if there are "funny characters"?

Because, of course, "funny characters" often have
interesting consequences when output. Furthermore, their
consequences aren't always immediately obvious from looking
at the source code, unless you are intimately familiar with
the function of the special characters in question.

For instance, sometimes in the wrong combination, they wedge
your xterm. Etc.

I'm surprised that this needs to be spelled out.

> In C++, if you see an escape you don't recognize, do you
> care?

Yes, of course I do. If I need to know what the program
does.

> Do you go running for the manual? If the answer is No,
> then why do it in Python?

The answer is that I do in both cases.

> No. \z *is* a legal escape sequence, it just happens to map to \z.

> If you stop thinking of \z as an illegal escape sequence
> that Python refuses to raise an error for, the problem
> goes away. It's a legal escape sequence that maps to
> backslash + z.

(1) I already used that argument on my friend, and he wasn't
buying it. (Personally, I find the argument technically
valid, but commonsensically invalid. It's a language-lawyer
kind of argument, rather than one that appeals to any notion
of real aesthetics.)

(2) That argument disagrees with the Python reference
manual, which explicitly states that "unrecognized escape
sequences are left in the string unchanged", and that the
purpose for doing so is because it "is useful when
debugging".

> > "\x" is not a legal escape sequence. Shouldn't it also
> > get left as "\\x"?
>
> No, because it actually is an illegal escape sequence.

What makes it "illegal". As far as I can tell, it's just
another "unrecognized escape sequence". JavaScript treats it
that way. Are you going to be the one to tell all the
JavaScript programmers that their language can't tell a
legal escape sequence from an illegal one?

> > Well, I think he's more annoyed that if Python is going
> > to be so helpful as to put in the missing "\" for you in
> > "foo\zbar", then it should put in the missing "\" for
> > you in "\". He considers this to be an inconsistency.
>
> (1) There is no missing \ in "foo\zbar".
>
> (2) The problem with "\" isn't a missing backslash, but a
> missing end- quote.

Says who? All of this really depends on your point of
view. The whole morass goes away completely if one adopts
C++'s approach here.

> Python isn't DWIMing here. The rules are simple and straightforward,
> there's no mind-reading or guessing required.

It may not be a complex form of DWIMing, but it's still
DWIMing a bit. Python is figuring that if I typed "\z", then
either I must have really meant to type "\\z", or that I
want to see the backslash when I'm debugging because I made
a mistake, or that I'm just too lazy to type "\\z".

> Is it "a form of DWIMing" to consider 1.234e1 and 12.34
> synonymous?

That's a very different issue, as (1) there are very
significant use cases for both kinds of numerical
representations, and (2) there's often only one obvious way
way that the number should be entered, depending on the
coding situation.

> What about 86 and 0x44? Is that DWIMing?

See previous comment.

> I'm sure both you and your friend are excellent
> programmers, but you're tossing around DWIM as a
> meaningless term of opprobrium without any apparent
> understand of what DWIM actually is.

I don't know if my friend even knows the term DWIM, other
than me paraphrasing him, but I certainly understand all
about the term. It comes from InterLisp. When DWIM was
enabled, your program would run until it hit an error, and
for certain kinds of errors, it would wait a few seconds for
the user to notice the error message, and if the user didn't
tell the program to stop, it would try to figure out what
the user most likely meant, and then continue running using
the computer-generated "fix".

I.e., more or less like continuing on in the face of what
the Python Reference manual refers to as an "unrecognized
escape sequence".

|>ouglas


From 7of77 at web.de  Mon Aug 10 18:24:21 2009
From: 7of77 at web.de (bernd)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:24:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: illegal geld machen , schnell geld verdienen in , schnell geld im 
	internet , geld 2.0 geld verdienen im web 2.0 ,
	novoline american poker 
	online spielen , sofort geld im internet , mehr geld verdienen ,
	roulette geld machen ,
References: <692f7f6b-2235-429f-be42-c3d04cdcb134@r37g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<7350a4df-0ba2-4cb4-ab39-f7fda00bc729@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On 25 Jul., 00:50, entr... at web.de wrote:
> On 7 Jun., 19:48, swirler... at googlemail.com wrote:
> , schnell geld verdienenwww.novocasinos.de
> http://www.novocasinos.de
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> www.casino-pirat.de
> www.novocasinos.de
> http://www.novocasinos.de
> > *www.novocasinos.de
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> > *http://WWW.novolinecasinos.de
> > *http://www.novocasinos.de
> > *www.casino-pirat.de
> > *www.novocasinos.de
>
> > geld im internet verdienen mit geld verdienen mit online umfragen
> > damit geld machen blog geld verdienen
> > schnell geld verdiehnen geld sparen leicht
> > jetzt sofort schnelles geld drakensang geld verdienen
> > www schnell geld im internet verdienen forum
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>
> - Zitierten Text anzeigen -



From david.lyon at preisshare.net  Mon Aug 10 19:56:21 2009
From: david.lyon at preisshare.net (David Lyon)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 19:56:21 -0400
Subject: wxpython question
In-Reply-To: <11f24035-bd42-4df8-879a-2e2558ee45ee@d23g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
References: <11f24035-bd42-4df8-879a-2e2558ee45ee@d23g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 


is there a method/property called Show/Shown ?

On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 07:55:42 -0700 (PDT), azrael 
wrote:
> Is there maybe a method bounded to the class SpinCtrl() that could
> hide the widget. One that is maybe also implemented in any other
> control.
> 
> self.spcKvadDo = wx.SpinCtrl(id=-1, initial=0, max=1000000, min=0,
> name='spcKvadDo', parent=self.pnlFilteri, pos=wx.Point(10, 10),
> size=wx.Size(118, 21), style=wx.SP_ARROW_KEYS)
> 
> self.spcKvadOd.XXX()
> 
> I tried it with the SetTransparent() method but it did not work. Has
> anyone any Idea?


From david.lyon at preisshare.net  Mon Aug 10 20:05:00 2009
From: david.lyon at preisshare.net (David Lyon)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:05:00 -0400
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire
	=?UTF-8?Q?writers=3F?=
In-Reply-To: <4A80472E.4090108@stoneleaf.us>
References: 			<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>		<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>		<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro	ups.com>
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>			<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	
	<4A80472E.4090108@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <0985e0fe54bf41fa3736cd6697d42bf4@preisshare.net>

On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:13:34 -0700, Ethan Furman 
wrote:
> As someone who relies heavily on the docs I will also say that the idea 
> of giving the ability to modify the official documentation to somebody 
> who is /learning/ the language is, quite frankly, terrifying.  

What is more terrifying is the way feedback from newbies is handled.

Your statement implies that the only way feedback can be handled is
to throw the keys down in discust and walk away. That's primative
behaviour. And misleading, because that isn't going to happen.

> My bookshelf currently has Learning Python, Programming 
> Python, Python Cookbook, Python Programming on Win32, and Regular 
> Expressions.  All great books, and not too pricey if you can get them
used.

So, what you're advocating is let things stay how they are...

Ignore feedback... tell people to freak off...




From http  Mon Aug 10 21:28:47 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 10 Aug 2009 18:28:47 -0700
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	
	
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro
	ups.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<081115fd-8014-4e6b-8d7b-76d6fcf6a59d@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xr5vj9m0g.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

r  writes:
> Whilst writing any tutorial on any subject matter please remember, you
> may be an expert, but mostly *non-experts* will be reading your
> material... pssft, this may come as a surprise, but tutorials are
> meant for *NON-EXPERTS*!

I think the Python tutorial is aimed at users who are newbies to
Python but not newbies to programming.  Writing a tutorial for total
newbies is a completely different problem, that would result in a much
different document that's less useful to the existing tutorial's
intended audience.


From pacificik at warnell.uga.edu  Mon Aug 10 22:11:04 2009
From: pacificik at warnell.uga.edu (Krishna Pacifici)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 22:11:04 -0400
Subject: dictionary help
Message-ID: <4A809AF80200008C000149EC@redhorse.forestry.uga.edu>

Hi,
kind of a newbie here, but I have two questions that are probably pretty simple.

1.  I need to get rid of duplicate values that are associated with different keys in a dictionary.  For example I have the following code.
s={}
s[0]=[10,2,3]
 s[10]=[22,23,24]
 s[20]=[45,5]
s[30]=[2,4]
s[40]=[6,7,8]

Now I want to be able to loop through the primary keys and get rid of duplicates (both in keys and values) so that I would have either a new dictionary or the same dictionary but with the following values:

s[0]=[3]
 s[10]=[22,23,24]
 s[20]=[45,5]
s[30]=[2,4]
s[40]=[6,7,8]

It doesn't matter which value gets removed as long as there is only one remaining, so in this example it doesn't matter that 2 got removed from s[0] or from s[30] as long as there is only one 2 in the dictionary.

2.  I need to be able to loop over the values in the dictionary when there are multiple values assigned to each key like above and assign new values to those values.  Taking the above example I would want to assign a new value so that when you called s[0] it would equal [3,4] say if 4 was the new value.  I think this should be as simple as adding a value, but I kept on having difficulty.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you very much,
Krishna

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From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Mon Aug 10 22:15:03 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 23:15:03 -0300
Subject: Python configuration question when python scripts are executed
	using Appweb as web server.
References: 
	
	
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

En Mon, 10 Aug 2009 11:48:31 -0300, IronyOfLife 
escribi?:

>> Why different results in IIS and appweb? [...]
> This is fairly easy to explain. When I configured IIS to execute
> python scripts, as per the documentation I pass two command line
> arguments. Appweb works this way. It opens up a new command process
> and in the function parameter for environment it sets only SYSTEMROOT.
> It does not set the PATH variable (A BUG IN APPWEB which I have passed
> on to them. They have not commented or provided any work around) for
> Windows platform.

Perhaps you could configure appweb to call a .bat file like this, instead
of directly invoking python?

set path=%path%;other;directories;added
c:\path\to\python.exe %*

(this is slightly off topic now...)

> You were mentioning about .local file or manifest file to specify the
> path. I used the python's build command to build the wrapper. Is there
> a way to mention in setup.py to generate the .manifest file? I wold
> very much appreciate if you can help me with that.
>
> I will also look for answers for how to modify setup.py to generate
> manifest file or .local file etc..

The last part is easy: foo.exe.local is just an empty file in the same
directory as foo.exe - when it exists, DLLs are searched first on the
directory containing the application [1]

With manifest files I can't help. I suggest you create a new thread with
that question, perhaps in the distutils-SIG mailing list [2]

[1] http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms682600(VS.85).aspx
[2] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From jcd at sdf.lonestar.org  Mon Aug 10 23:07:49 2009
From: jcd at sdf.lonestar.org (J. Cliff Dyer)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 23:07:49 -0400
Subject: dictionary help
In-Reply-To: <4A809AF80200008C000149EC@redhorse.forestry.uga.edu>
References: <4A809AF80200008C000149EC@redhorse.forestry.uga.edu>
Message-ID: <1249960069.5675.8.camel@webb>

On Mon, 2009-08-10 at 22:11 -0400, Krishna Pacifici wrote:
> Hi,
> kind of a newbie here, but I have two questions that are probably
> pretty simple.
> 
> 1.  I need to get rid of duplicate values that are associated with
> different keys in a dictionary.  For example I have the following
> code.
> s={}
> s[0]=[10,2,3]
> s[10]=[22,23,24]
> s[20]=[45,5]
> s[30]=[2,4]
> s[40]=[6,7,8]
> 
> Now I want to be able to loop through the primary keys and get rid of
> duplicates (both in keys and values) so that I would have either a new
> dictionary or the same dictionary but with the following values:
> 
> s[0]=[3]
> s[10]=[22,23,24]
> s[20]=[45,5]
> s[30]=[2,4]
> s[40]=[6,7,8]
> 
> It doesn't matter which value gets removed as long as there is only
> one remaining, so in this example it doesn't matter that 2 got removed
> from s[0] or from s[30] as long as there is only one 2 in the
> dictionary.
> 
So if the number is a key, you want to keep the key, and delete all
matching values, and if the number is not a key, you want to keep one
(any one) instance of that number?  I'm not sure that what you are
looking for is best represented by a dict.  You might want to consider
creating your own class and overriding __getitem__.


> 2.  I need to be able to loop over the values in the dictionary when
> there are multiple values assigned to each key like above and assign
> new values to those values.  Taking the above example I would want to
> assign a new value so that when you called s[0] it would equal [3,4]
> say if 4 was the new value.  I think this should be as simple as
> adding a value, but I kept on having difficulty.
> 
Here you might want to either use the append() method on the lists of
each entry.

> Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
> 
I'm not sure what you are doing maps cleanly to currently existing
datastructures, which means that there might not be a quick shortcut for
you.  Hammer out the specs of what you want your class to be able to do,
and what the API will be for performing each of those functions.  Then
you should be able to begin implementing it, or at least come up with
some more specific questions.



> Thank you very much,
> Krishna

Cheers,
Cliff




From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Aug 10 23:27:59 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 11 Aug 2009 03:27:59 GMT
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	
	
	
	
	<86e09602-7eb1-4397-a77f-fb1e3c5b34b9@k26g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 08:21:03 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:

> But you're right, it's too late to change this now.

Not really. There is a procedure for making non-backwards compatible 
changes. If you care deeply enough about this, you could agitate for 
Python 3.2 to raise a PendingDepreciation warning for "unexpected" escape 
sequences like \z, Python 3.3 to raise a Depreciation warning, and Python 
3.4 to treat it as an error.

It may even be possible to skip the PendingDepreciation warning and go 
straight for Depreciation warning in 3.2.


-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Aug 10 23:29:20 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 11 Aug 2009 03:29:20 GMT
Subject: With or without leading underscore...
References: <5un5l6-fvn.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:37:25 +0200, Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:

> ...that is the question!
> 
> I have a module which exports a type. It also exports a function that
> returns instances of that type. Now, the reason for my question is that
> while users will directly use instances of the type, they will not
> create instances of the type themselves.
> 
> So, the type is a part of the public API, but its constructor is not.
> Should I mark the type as private (with a leading underscore) or not?

My opinion is that if you have to ask the question "Should this class be 
private?", then the answer is No.

Only make objects private if you have specific reasons for doing so. I 
know this goes against the advice given by other languages (namely, make 
everything private unless you need it to be public) but Python encourages 
openness and transparency.



-- 
Steven


From hjtoi-better-remove-before-reply at comcast.net  Tue Aug 11 00:25:21 2009
From: hjtoi-better-remove-before-reply at comcast.net (Heikki Toivonen)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 21:25:21 -0700
Subject: ANN: M2Crypto 0.20
Message-ID: 

I am please to announce the M2Crypto 0.20 release, which was in
development for over nine months. Over 30 bugs fixed by more than ten
people. Download links and bug filing instructions on the homepage at
http://chandlerproject.org/Projects/MeTooCrypto.

M2Crypto is the most complete Python wrapper for OpenSSL featuring RSA,
DSA, DH, HMACs, message digests, symmetric ciphers (including AES); SSL
functionality to implement clients and servers; HTTPS extensions to
Python's httplib, urllib, and xmlrpclib; unforgeable HMAC'ing
AuthCookies for web session management; FTP/TLS client and server;
S/MIME; ZServerSSL: A HTTPS server for Zope and ZSmime: An S/MIME
messenger for Zope. Smartcards supported with the Engine interface.

Changelog:

- Deprecated M2Crypto.PGP subpackage since nobody seems to be using it
nor is it being maintained (if you do use it, please let me know)
- Added fedora_setup.sh to help work around differences on Fedora Core
-based distributions (RedHat, CentOS, ...); thanks to Miloslav Trmac
- Added X509.load_request_bio and load_request_string, by Hartmut Goebel
and Pavel Shramov
- Added alias X509.Request.set_subject for set_subject_name to match
X509.X509, by Pavel Shramov
- OBJ_* wrappers did not work properly with OpenSSL 0.9.8a and earlier,
fix by Pavel Shramov
- Added ASN1_UTCTIME.get_datetime and set_datetime, by Pavel Shramov
- Fixed obj_obj2txt, which returned nonsense, fix by Barney Stratford
- m2urllib did not close sockets properly, fix by Miloslav Trmac
- Allow SSL peer certificate to have subjectAltName without dNSName and
use commonName for hostname check, fix by Miloslav Trmac
- threading_locking_callback did not block on a lock when the lock
  was held by another thread, by Miloslav Trmac
- Allow more blocking OpenSSL functions to run without GIL, by Miloslav
Trmac
- Fixed httpslib to send only the path+query+fragment part of the URL
when using CONNECT proxy, by James Bowes
- SSLServer.__init__ now takes optional bind_and_activate parameter and
  initializes by calling SocketServer.BaseServer.__init__, which
  are Python 2.6 compatibility fixes, by Christian
- ftpslib now works with Python 2.6, by Theodore A. Roth
- httpslib.ProxyHTTPSConnection needs to cast port into integer,
  by John M. Schanck
- Added support for RSASSA-PSS signing and verifying, by Chris Collis
- Added support for disabling padding when using RSA encryption,
  by Chris Collis
- ASN1_INTEGERs can now be larger than fits in an int, for example to
support X509 certificates with large serial numbers, patch by Mikhail
Vorozhtsov and testcase by Barry G.
- Reverted a change done in 0.17 to m2urllib2 which changed urls to
include host when it should stay as it was
- httpslib no longer uses urllib; instead it uses urlparse for url parsing
- SMIME.text_crlf and text_crlf_bio were always raising TypeError; fixed
- EVP.load_key and load_key_bio fixed to raise EVP.EVPError and
BIO.BIOError instead of str (str exceptions not allowed in Python 2.6
and later)
- SSL.Session.load_session fixed to raise SSL.SSLError instead of str
- SMIME.load_pkcs7, load_pkcs7_bio, smime_load_pkcs7,
smime_load_pkcs7_bio, text_crlf, text_crlf_bio fixed to raise
BIO.BIOError, SMIME.PKCS7_Error and SMIME.SMIME_Error as appropriate
instead of str
- Added FIPS mode to unit tests, and used FIPS-compliant key sizes in
other tests, by Miloslav Trmac. Note that tests run much slower because
of this!
- Unit tests cover 80% of the code

-- 
  Heikki Toivonen - http://heikkitoivonen.net


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 00:33:03 2009
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 00:33:03 -0400
Subject: numpy array merge
In-Reply-To: <427654ff-5455-4198-bc86-d810ef3fafd6@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <427654ff-5455-4198-bc86-d810ef3fafd6@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-10 17:38, Nathan wrote:
> Is there an easy way to merge two numpy arrays with different rank
> sizes (terminology?).

You will want to ask numpy questions on the numpy mailing list.

   http://www.scipy.org/Mailing_Lists

I believe that "shape" is the term you are looking for.

> I want to make a single array by concatenating
> two arrays along a given direction and filling the excess cells with a
> dummy variable.  numpy concatenate works well as long as the two
> arrays have the same dimension, but I want to do this on two array
> with a matching dimension size.  An example:
>
> import numpy as np
> a = np.array([[1,2,3],[4,5,6]])
> b = np.array([[1,2],[3,4],[5,6]])
> np.concatenate((a,a),axis=1)  #This works fine, but isn't what I need.
> Out:  array([[1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3],
>         [4, 5, 6, 4, 5, 6]])
> np.concatenate((a,b),axis=1)  #This doesn't work, but this is what I
> need.
>
> I want to fill the third row of array "a" with a dummy variable (99999
> or NaN) and concatenate with "b" to make:
> [1,2,3,1,2]
> [4,5,6,4,5]
> [99999,99999,99999,5,6]
>
> This just seems like it would be relatively common.  So I thought I'd
> check if I'm missing something before I go write the logic.  Thanks!

I don't believe there is anything that does what you want out-of-box. You will 
probably want to determine the appropriate shape for the final array, use 
empty() to create it, use .fill(nan) (or whatever) to supply the default value, 
then assign the input arrays into the appropriate locations.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From nair.jitendra at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 01:15:31 2009
From: nair.jitendra at gmail.com (jitu)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 22:15:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Problem when fetching page using urllib2.urlopen
References: <2f1086ba-26ba-42a8-b5de-27581fa853e3@12g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <1002806e-cab7-4e9b-80e4-ab46dff20cdf@b25g2000prb.googlegroups.com>


Yes Piet you were right this works. But seems does not work on google
app engine, since  it appends it own agent info as seen below

'User-Agent': 'Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US;
rv:1.9.0.13) Gecko/2009073021 Firefox/3.0.13 AppEngine-Google;
(+http://code.google.com/appengine)'

Any way Thanks . Good to know about the User-Agent field.

Jitu


On Aug 11, 12:36?am, Piet van Oostrum  wrote:
> >>>>> jitu  (j) wrote:
> >j> Hi,
> >j> A html page ?contains 'anchor' elements with 'href' attribute ?having
> >j> a semicolon ?in the url , while fetching the page using
> >j> urllib2.urlopen, all such href's ?containing ?'semicolons' are
> >j> truncated.
> >j> For example the hrefhttp://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide-6901959-pune_restaurants-i;_ylt...
> >j> get truncated tohttp://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide-6901959-pune_restaurants-i
> >j> The page I am talking about can be fetched from
> >j>http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide-485468-pune_india_vacations-i;_...
>
> It's not python that causes this. It is the server that sends you the
> URLs without these parameters (that's what they are).
>
> To get them you have to tell the server that you are a respectable
> browser. E.g.
>
> import urllib2
>
> url = 'http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide-6901959-pune_restaurants-i;_ylt...
>
> url = 'http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide-485468-pune_india_vacations-i;_...
>
> hdrs = {'User-Agent': 'Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.0.13) Gecko/2009073021 Firefox/3.0.13',
> ? ? ? ?'Accept': 'image/*'}
>
> request = urllib2.Request(url = url, headers = hdrs)
> page = urllib2.urlopen(request).read()
>
> --
> Piet van Oostrum 
> URL:http://pietvanoostrum.com[PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
> Private email: p... at vanoostrum.org



From arshakrishnamtech at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 01:29:29 2009
From: arshakrishnamtech at gmail.com (ArshaKrishna)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 22:29:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Nltk with python
Message-ID: <82c9f923-1098-4b7e-8f9d-9504c1a8962c@12g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

How can I resolve scope ambiguity using nltk toolkit with python


From cmalmqui at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 01:54:38 2009
From: cmalmqui at gmail.com (cmalmqui)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 22:54:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ElementTree - Howto access text within XML tag element...
Message-ID: <1ad8dac1-8fff-493a-a197-d847e7b6a761@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I am writing on a small XML parser and are currently stuck as I am not
able to get the whole element name in ElementTree.

Please see the below example where "print root[0][0]" returns
""

Is there a way to get hold of the "Running" string in the tag using
elementTree?


    
      2009-07-10T14:48:00Z
      
      .........

For those of you that know how to program XML I have another
question:
I am currently "hardcoding" my XML parser using brackets, is this a
good approach or should I build it using a "search on tag" approach.

Thank you for any answers!


From terry.yinzhe at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 01:59:13 2009
From: terry.yinzhe at gmail.com (Terry)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 22:59:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to pickle a lambda function?
Message-ID: <37c55108-083f-4d60-b8a3-9b2b10833ac3@r18g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I'm trying to implement something like:

remote_map(fun, list)

to execute the function on a remove machine. But the problem is I
cannot pickle a lambda function and send it to the remote machine.

Is there any possible way to pickle (or other method) any functions
including lambda?

br, Terry


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Aug 11 02:47:32 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 11 Aug 2009 06:47:32 GMT
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire	writers?
References: 
	
	
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro
	ups.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	
	<4A80472E.4090108@stoneleaf.us>
	
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:05:00 -0400, David Lyon wrote:

> So, what you're advocating is let things stay how they are...

If it's not broken, don't fix it.


> Ignore feedback... tell people to freak off...

Only useless feedback.


-- 
Steven




From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Aug 11 02:51:28 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 11 Aug 2009 06:51:28 GMT
Subject: variable & scoping question.
References: 
	<7earmtF2f4tvnU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<93c50fc3-2cf9-4fc6-9919-cde7cfd273e6@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 08:46:17 -0700, Cornelius Keller wrote:

> On 10 Aug., 17:12, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
>> Cornelius Keller wrote:
> [snip]
>>
>> http://effbot.org/zone/default-values.htm
>>
>> Diez
> 
> Ok thank you.
> I' understand now why.
> I still think this is very confusing, because default values don't
> behave like most people would expect without reading the docs.


Really? How do you expect the default value to behave in this example?

>>> import time
>>> def test(x=time.time()):
...     print x
...
>>>
>>> test()
1249972984.33
>>> time.sleep(30)
>>> test()
1249972984.33

You get the same default object each time you call the function, NOT a 
fresh one created. I'm sure I'd be terribly confused if Python re-
evaluated the default value each time I called the function.

There's no difference between this and the case x=[], except that lists 
are mutable and floats aren't. You get the same default list each time, 
it just has different stuff in it. The alternative would be to get a 
different list each time, and that would require re-evaluating the 
default each time the function was called, which is horrible.




-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Aug 11 03:07:13 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 11 Aug 2009 07:07:13 GMT
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<3611ca55-79a6-4336-9041-07d0893789f7@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
	<0447e8a2-508d-45b2-8d15-da0cc2a56b5f@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:17:24 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:

> From: Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
> 
>> On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 00:32:30 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:
> 
>> > In C++, if I know that the code I'm looking at compiles, then I never
>> > need worry that I've misinterpreted what a string literal means.
> 
>> If you don't know what your string literals are, you don't know what
>> your program does. You can't expect the compiler to save you from
>> semantic errors. Adding escape codes into the string literal doesn't
>> change this basic truth.
> 
> I grow weary of these semantic debates. The bottom line is that C++'s
> strategy here catches bugs early on that Python's approach doesn't. It
> does so at no additional cost.
>
> From a purely practical point of view, why would any language not want
> to adopt a zero-cost approach to catching bugs, even if they are
> relatively rare, as early as possible?

Because the cost isn't zero. Needing to write \\ in a string literal when 
you want \ is a cost, and having to read \\ in source code and mentally 
translate that to \ is also a cost. By all means argue that it's a cost 
that is worth paying, but please stop pretending that it's not a cost.

Having to remember that \n is a "special" escape and \y isn't is also a 
cost, but that's a cost you pay in C++ too, if you want your code to 
compile.


By the way, you've stated repeatedly that \y will compile with a warning 
in g++. So what precisely do you get if you ignore the warning? What do 
other C++ compilers do? Apart from the lack of warning, what actually is 
the difference between Python's behaviour and C++'s behaviour?



> (Other than the reason that adopting it *now* is sadly too late.)
> 
> Furthermore, Python's strategy here is SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED, according
> to the reference manual to catch bugs. I.e., from the original posting
> on this issue:
> 
>      Unlike Standard C, all unrecognized escape sequences are left in
>      the string unchanged, i.e., the backslash is left in the string.
>      (This behavior is useful when debugging: if an escape sequence is
>      mistyped, the resulting output is more easily recognized as
>      broken.)

You need to work on your reading comprehension. It doesn't say anything 
about the motivation for this behaviour, let alone that it was 
"SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED" to catch bugs. It says it is useful for 
debugging. My shoe is useful for squashing poisonous spiders, but it 
wasn't designed as a poisonous-spider squashing device.



>> The compiler can't save you from typing 1234 instead of 11234, or 31.45
>> instead of 3.145, or "My darling Ho" instead of "My darling Jo", so why
>> do you expect it to save you from typing "abc\d" instead of "abc\\d"?
> 
> Because in the former cases it can't catch the the bug, and in the
> latter case, it can.

I'm not convinced this is a bug that needs catching, but if you think it 
is, then that's a reasonable argument.



>> Perhaps it can catch *some* errors of that type, but only at the cost
>> of extra effort required to defeat the compiler (forcing the programmer
>> to type \\d to prevent the compiler complaining about \d). I don't
>> think the benefit is worth the cost. You and your friend do. Who is to
>> say you're right?
> 
> Well, Bjarne Stroustrup, for one.

Then let him design his own language *wink*


> All of these are value judgments, of course, but I truly doubt that
> anyone would have been bothered if Python from day one had behaved the
> way that C++ does. 

If I'm reading this page correctly, Python does behave as C++ does. Or at 
least as Larch/C++ does:

http://www.cs.ucf.edu/~leavens/larchc++manual/lcpp_47.html




>> In C++, if you see an escape you don't recognize, do you care?
> 
> Yes, of course I do. If I need to know what the program does.

Precisely the same as in Python.


>> Do you go running for the manual? If the answer is No, then why do it
>> in Python?
> 
> The answer is that I do in both cases.

You deleted without answer my next question:

"And if the answer is Yes, then how is Python worse than C++?"

Seems to me that the answer is "It's not worse than C++, it's the same" 
-- in both cases, you have to memorize the "special" escape sequences, 
and in both cases, if you see an escape you don't recognize, you need to 
look it up.



>> No. \z *is* a legal escape sequence, it just happens to map to \z.
> 
>> If you stop thinking of \z as an illegal escape sequence that Python
>> refuses to raise an error for, the problem goes away. It's a legal
>> escape sequence that maps to backslash + z.
> 
> (1) I already used that argument on my friend, and he wasn't buying it.
> (Personally, I find the argument technically valid, but commonsensically
> invalid. It's a language-lawyer kind of argument, rather than one that
> appeals to any notion of real aesthetics.)

I disagree with your sense of aesthetics. I think that having to write 
\\y when I want \y just to satisfy a bondage-and-discipline compiler is 
ugly. That's not to deny that B&D isn't useful on occasion, but in this 
case I believe the benefit is negligible, and so even a tiny cost is not 
worth the pain.

The sweet sweet pain... oh wait, sorry, wrong newsgroup...



> (2) That argument disagrees with the Python reference manual, which
> explicitly states that "unrecognized escape sequences are left in the
> string unchanged", and that the purpose for doing so is because it "is
> useful when debugging".

How does it disagree? \y in the source code mapping to \y in the string 
object is the sequence being left unchanged. And the usefulness of doing 
so is hardly a disagreement over the fact that it does so.



>> > "\x" is not a legal escape sequence. Shouldn't it also get left as
>> > "\\x"?
>>
>> No, because it actually is an illegal escape sequence.
> 
> What makes it "illegal". As far as I can tell, it's just another
> "unrecognized escape sequence". 

No, it's recognized, because \x is the prefix for an hexadecimal escape 
code. And it's illegal, because it's missing the actual hexadecimal 
digits.


> JavaScript treats it that way. Are you
> going to be the one to tell all the JavaScript programmers that their
> language can't tell a legal escape sequence from an illegal one?

Well, it is Javascript... 

All joking aside, syntax varies from one language to another. What counts 
as a legal escape sequence in Javascript and what counts as a legal 
escape sequence in Python are different. What makes you think I'm talking 
about Javascript?


>> > Well, I think he's more annoyed that if Python is going to be so
>> > helpful as to put in the missing "\" for you in "foo\zbar", then it
>> > should put in the missing "\" for you in "\". He considers this to be
>> > an inconsistency.
>>
>> (1) There is no missing \ in "foo\zbar".
>>
>> (2) The problem with "\" isn't a missing backslash, but a missing end-
>> quote.
> 
> Says who? All of this really depends on your point of view. The whole
> morass goes away completely if one adopts C++'s approach here.

But the morass only exists in the first place because you have adopted 
C++'s approach instead of Python's approach -- and (possibly) not even a 
standard part of the C++ approach, but a non-standard warning provided by 
one compiler out of many.


Even if you disagree about (1), it's easy enough to prove that (2) is 
correct:

>>> "\"
  File "", line 1
    "\"
      ^
SyntaxError: EOL while scanning single-quoted string


This is the exact same error you get here:


>>> "a
  File "", line 1
    "a
     ^
SyntaxError: EOL while scanning single-quoted string



>> Python isn't DWIMing here. The rules are simple and straightforward,
>> there's no mind-reading or guessing required.
> 
> It may not be a complex form of DWIMing, but it's still DWIMing a bit.
> Python is figuring that if I typed "\z", then either I must have really
> meant to type "\\z", 

Nope, not in the least. Python NEVER EVER EVER tries to guess what you 
mean.

If you type "xyz", it assumes you want "xyz".

If you type "xyz\n", it assumes you want "xyz\n".

If you type "xyz\\n", it assumes you want "xyz\\n".

If you type "xyz\y", it assumes you want "xyz\y".

If you type "xyz\\y", it assumes you want "xyz\\y".

This is *exactly* like C++, except that in Python the semantics of \y and 
\\y are identical. Python doesn't guess what you mean, it *imposes* a 
meaning on the escape sequence. You just don't like that meaning.



> or that I want to see the backslash when I'm
> debugging because I made a mistake, or that I'm just too lazy to type
> "\\z".

Oh jeez, if you're going to define DWIM so broadly, then *everything* is 
DWIM. "If I type '1+2', then the C++ compiler figures out that I must 
have wanted to add 1 and 2..."


> I don't know if my friend even knows the term DWIM, other than me
> paraphrasing him, but I certainly understand all about the term. It
> comes from InterLisp. When DWIM was enabled, your program would run
> until it hit an error, and for certain kinds of errors, it would wait a
> few seconds for the user to notice the error message, and if the user
> didn't tell the program to stop, it would try to figure out what the
> user most likely meant, and then continue running using the
> computer-generated "fix".

Right. And Python isn't doing anything even remotely similar to that.



> I.e., more or less like continuing on in the face of what the Python
> Reference manual refers to as an "unrecognized escape sequence".

The wording could be better, I accept. It would be better to talk about 
"special escapes" (e.g. \n) and "any non-special escape" (e.g. \y).




-- 
Steven


From nad at acm.org  Tue Aug 11 03:13:07 2009
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 00:13:07 -0700
Subject: ElementTree - Howto access text within XML tag element...
References: <1ad8dac1-8fff-493a-a197-d847e7b6a761@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

In article 
<1ad8dac1-8fff-493a-a197-d847e7b6a761 at c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>,
 cmalmqui  wrote:
> I am writing on a small XML parser and are currently stuck as I am not
> able to get the whole element name in ElementTree.
> 
> Please see the below example where "print root[0][0]" returns
> ""
> 
> Is there a way to get hold of the "Running" string in the tag using
> elementTree?
> 
> 
>     
>       2009-07-10T14:48:00Z
>       
>       .........

"Running" is the value of the "Sport" attribute of the "Activity" 
element.  The documentation for the Element interface lists several ways 
to access element attributes; in your example,

>>> elem = root[0][0]
>>> elem.get("Sport")
'Running'
>>> elem.attrib
{'Sport': 'Running'}
>>> elem.items()
[('Sport', 'Running')]

See http://docs.python.org/library/xml.etree.elementtree.html

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org



From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Tue Aug 11 03:42:06 2009
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 11 Aug 2009 07:42:06 GMT
Subject: How to pickle a lambda function?
References: <37c55108-083f-4d60-b8a3-9b2b10833ac3@r18g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Terry  wrote:

> I'm trying to implement something like:
> 
> remote_map(fun, list)
> 
> to execute the function on a remove machine. But the problem is I
> cannot pickle a lambda function and send it to the remote machine.
> 
> Is there any possible way to pickle (or other method) any functions
> including lambda?
> 

You can pickle any named functions that are declared at module scope.

You cannot pickle anonymous functions, methods, or functions declared 
nested inside other functions. The function must be present in the same 
module when you unpickle it, and if the definition has changed between 
pickling and unpickling the new definition will be used (just as other 
instances will use the current class definition not the one they were 
pickled with).

You probably could pickle some of the components needed to create your 
lambda and construct a new function from it when unpickling: try the code 
object, the name of the module to be used for the globals, and default 
arguments. I don't think you can pickle the closure so better make sure 
your lambda doesn't need one, and be very careful to ensure that you 
restore the pickle in the same version of Python otherwise the code object 
might break. Best just avoid this and use named functions for anything that 
needs pickling.

-- 
Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com


From solipsis at pitrou.net  Tue Aug 11 03:47:39 2009
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 07:47:39 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

r  gmail.com> writes:
> 
> On Aug 9, 11:02?pm, David Lyon  wrote:
> > Since you're talking about documentation, which is a part of python,
> > don't you think you should be discussing it on python-dev ?
> 
> Yea, them's be a friendly bunch to noob ideas ;). Hey i got a better
> idea, lets go to the IRS and see if we can persuade them to stop
> taxing us...

You know, the most interesting thing in this thread is certainly its title :
? Social problems of Python doc ?

Yes, the little social problem here should be clear: if you have complaints to
voice or improvements to suggest to the Python docs, you should do so on the
issue tracker (*). For most topics, this is the only reasonable way to signal
problems to the Python developers community, and so it is in most free software
/ open source projects.

Just because you are able to write tongue-in-cheek (**) comments on python-list
or, even worse, on a third party website, and generate a long thread about how
Python doc (supposedly) s*cks
1) doesn't mean there is a legitimate issue (we all know how people can quickly
inflame about empty subjects)
2) even though there can be a legitimate issue, doesn't mean Python developers
will go out of their way and parse the entirety of the messages to find
potentially useful data in them. The bug tracker is the place for this, and it's
your task, if you want to help, to submit suggestions in it.

FYI, the Python doc is very actively maintained nowadays, and bug reports /are/
taken into account. If you think you've got a lot of time for ranting about how
the doc sucks, but don't want to spend the couple of minutes needed to post
issues on the bug tracker, it speaks a lot about your motivation. Admittedly, in
every successful community, there are attention seekers who are not interested
in actual participation.

(*) http://bugs.python.org

(**) yes, humour is fine, but it doesn't replace actual, informational content


Antoine.




From deets at nospam.web.de  Tue Aug 11 03:51:02 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 09:51:02 +0200
Subject: ElementTree - Howto access text within XML tag element...
In-Reply-To: <1ad8dac1-8fff-493a-a197-d847e7b6a761@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <1ad8dac1-8fff-493a-a197-d847e7b6a761@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7ecm77F2fbf71U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

cmalmqui schrieb:
> Hi,
> 
> I am writing on a small XML parser and are currently stuck as I am not
> able to get the whole element name in ElementTree.
> 
> Please see the below example where "print root[0][0]" returns
> ""
> 
> Is there a way to get hold of the "Running" string in the tag using
> elementTree?
> 
> 
>     
>       2009-07-10T14:48:00Z
>       
>       .........
> 
> For those of you that know how to program XML I have another
> question:
> I am currently "hardcoding" my XML parser using brackets, is this a
> good approach or should I build it using a "search on tag" approach.

What do you mean by that - hardcoding by brackets?

Diez


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Aug 11 03:56:39 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 08:56:39 +0100
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>		<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> r  gmail.com> writes:
>> On Aug 9, 11:02 pm, David Lyon  wrote:
>>> Since you're talking about documentation, which is a part of python,
>>> don't you think you should be discussing it on python-dev ?
>> Yea, them's be a friendly bunch to noob ideas ;). Hey i got a better
>> idea, lets go to the IRS and see if we can persuade them to stop
>> taxing us...
> 
> You know, the most interesting thing in this thread is certainly its title :
> ? Social problems of Python doc ?
> 
> Yes, the little social problem here should be clear: if you have complaints to
> voice or improvements to suggest to the Python docs, you should do so on the
> issue tracker (*). For most topics, this is the only reasonable way to signal
> problems to the Python developers community, and so it is in most free software
> / open source projects.
> 
> Just because you are able to write tongue-in-cheek (**) comments on python-list
> or, even worse, on a third party website, and generate a long thread about how
> Python doc (supposedly) s*cks
> 1) doesn't mean there is a legitimate issue (we all know how people can quickly
> inflame about empty subjects)
> 2) even though there can be a legitimate issue, doesn't mean Python developers
> will go out of their way and parse the entirety of the messages to find
> potentially useful data in them. The bug tracker is the place for this, and it's
> your task, if you want to help, to submit suggestions in it.
> 
> FYI, the Python doc is very actively maintained nowadays, and bug reports /are/
> taken into account. If you think you've got a lot of time for ranting about how
> the doc sucks, but don't want to spend the couple of minutes needed to post
> issues on the bug tracker, it speaks a lot about your motivation. Admittedly, in
> every successful community, there are attention seekers who are not interested
> in actual participation.
> 
> (*) http://bugs.python.org
> 
> (**) yes, humour is fine, but it doesn't replace actual, informational content
> 
> 
> Antoine.
> 
> 
Thank you for this fine, cultured, reasonable response.  Seriously!!!

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From terry.yinzhe at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 04:16:14 2009
From: terry.yinzhe at gmail.com (Terry)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 01:16:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to pickle a lambda function?
References: <37c55108-083f-4d60-b8a3-9b2b10833ac3@r18g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 11, 3:42?pm, Duncan Booth  wrote:
> Terry  wrote:
> > I'm trying to implement something like:
>
> > remote_map(fun, list)
>
> > to execute the function on a remove machine. But the problem is I
> > cannot pickle a lambda function and send it to the remote machine.
>
> > Is there any possible way to pickle (or other method) any functions
> > including lambda?
>
> You can pickle any named functions that are declared at module scope.
>
> You cannot pickle anonymous functions, methods, or functions declared
> nested inside other functions. The function must be present in the same
> module when you unpickle it, and if the definition has changed between
> pickling and unpickling the new definition will be used (just as other
> instances will use the current class definition not the one they were
> pickled with).
>
> You probably could pickle some of the components needed to create your
> lambda and construct a new function from it when unpickling: try the code
> object, the name of the module to be used for the globals, and default
> arguments. I don't think you can pickle the closure so better make sure
> your lambda doesn't need one, and be very careful to ensure that you
> restore the pickle in the same version of Python otherwise the code object
> might break. Best just avoid this and use named functions for anything that
> needs pickling.
>
> --
> Duncan Boothhttp://kupuguy.blogspot.com

Yes, I'm think of pickle (actually marshal) the code object. Otherwise
I have to use string and eval:-(

The reason I need to be able to pickle any function is because I want
my remote machine knows nothing about the function before receiving
it, so I don't need to update the source code in the remote machine
very often.

br, terry


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Tue Aug 11 04:17:00 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 01:17:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Problem Regarding Handling of Unicode string
References: <9ac0e194-9e25-468a-9807-957ef3142dd3@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <47b265c5-e71f-4018-815a-0bfbea927a4a@y28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 10, 9:26?pm, joy99  wrote:
> Dear Group,
>
> I am using Python26 on WindowsXP with service pack2. My GUI is IDLE.
> I am using Hindi resources and get nice output like:
> ??
> where I can use all the re functions and other functions without doing
> any transliteration,etc.
> I was trying to use Bengali but it is giving me output like:

WHAT is giving you this output?

> '\xef\xbb\xbf\xe0\xa6\x85\xe0\xa6\xa8\xe0\xa7\x87\xe0\xa6\x95'

In a very ordinary IDLE session (Win XP SP3, Python 2.6.2, locale:
Australia/English, no "Hindi resources"):

>>> x = '\xef\xbb\xbf\xe0\xa6\x85\xe0\xa6\xa8\xe0\xa7\x87\xe0\xa6\x95'
>>> ux = x.decode('utf-8')
>>> ux
u'\ufeff\u0985\u09a8\u09c7\u0995'
>>> print ux
????? # looks like what you wanted; please confirm
>>> import unicodedata
>>> for c in ux:
	print unicodedata.name(c)


ZERO WIDTH NO-BREAK SPACE # this is a BOM
BENGALI LETTER A
BENGALI LETTER NA
BENGALI VOWEL SIGN E
BENGALI LETTER KA
>>>

> I wanted to see Bengali output as
> ????
> and I like to use all functions including re.
> If any one can help me on that.

"I am using Hindi resources" doesn't tell us much ... except to prompt
the comment that perhaps if you want to display Bengali script, you
may need Bengali resources. However it looks like I can display your
Bengali data without any special resources.

It seems like you are not doing the same with Bengali as you are doing
with Hindi. We can't help you very much if you don't show exactly what
you are doing.

Have you considered asking in an Indian Python forum? Note: you will
still need to say what you are doing that works with Hindi but not
with Bengali.

Cheers,
John


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Tue Aug 11 04:41:25 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:41:25 +0200
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
In-Reply-To: <081115fd-8014-4e6b-8d7b-76d6fcf6a59d@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro
	ups.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<081115fd-8014-4e6b-8d7b-76d6fcf6a59d@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a812e8d$0$27778$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

r a ?crit :
(snip)
> 
> A little note for tutorial writers:
> ==================================
> 
> Dear Expert,
> Whilst writing any tutorial on any subject matter please remember, you
> may be an expert, but mostly *non-experts* will be reading your
> material... 

I can only second Paul on this : just like the K&R, Python's official 
tutorial targets experienced programmers, not total noobies.



From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Tue Aug 11 04:46:19 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:46:19 +0200
Subject: With or without leading underscore...
In-Reply-To: <4d6719e4-217a-4921-bd26-228fd4944eb7@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
References: <5un5l6-fvn.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<4d6719e4-217a-4921-bd26-228fd4944eb7@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a812fb2$0$27778$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Carl Banks a ?crit :
(snip)


> class A(object):
>     def __init__(self,*args,**kwargs):
>         raise TypeError('Type not callable; use factory function
> instead')
> 
>     @classmethod
>     def _create_object(cls,initial_value):
>         self = object.__new__(cls) # avoid __init__
>         self.value = initial_value

I assume there's a missing "return self" line here ?-)


From Brian.Mingus at colorado.edu  Tue Aug 11 04:49:01 2009
From: Brian.Mingus at colorado.edu (Brian)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 02:49:01 -0600
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
In-Reply-To: <756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
References: 
	
	
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
Message-ID: <9839a05c0908110149paa2eddbue3880037e0fded3f@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:12 PM, Kee Nethery  wrote:

> I too find the Python docs not very useful and it really slows down my
> learning curve.
>
> I wonder if it would make sense to find good tech writers, get a quotes,
> and get some professionally written documentation WITH LOTS OF EXAMPLES
> added to the standard Python documentation tree.
>
> I'd chip in money for that task. I've certainly spent enough buying Python
> books to where it would be very reasonable to chip in the cost of one book
> towards this project. Get enough people ... could be a great thing.
>
> Even though it is not the version I use, I would suggest that the really
> detailed docs with lots of examples be written against the latest python
> version.
>
> Just a thought.
>
> Kee Nethery
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

One thing I really like about the PHP docs is the built in forums. User
feedback on documentation is invaluable.
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From zhongshq at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 04:49:40 2009
From: zhongshq at gmail.com (zhongshq)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 01:49:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is there any package implanation the following arithmetics?
Message-ID: 

Hi,

I wonder if there has any package can check whether two rectangles are
overlap, is a dot inside or outside a polygon, etc.

Thanks a lot!


From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Aug 11 06:23:00 2009
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 03:23:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need help in configuration for TimedRotatingFileHandler
References: <7e6938ce-91c9-4b65-980f-46d76bf69220@d36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<4A7F3C83.1040607@ieee.org>
	 
	 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 10, 3:52?pm, Dave Angel  wrote:
> Lokesh Maremalla wrote:
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> > ? File "c:\Python25\lib\logging\handlers.py", line 74, in emit
> > ? ? self.doRollover()
> > ? File "c:\Python25\lib\logging\handlers.py", line 274, in doRollover
> > ? ? os.rename(self.baseFilename, dfn)
> > WindowsError: [Error 32] The process cannot access the file because it is
> > being used by another process
>
> Generally speaking, this error on os.rename() will occur if you haven't
> properly closed the file first, and if I recall correctly, Unix would
> have permitted a rename on an open file. ?You're on Windows. ?However, I
> don't know how that works with theloggingpackage. ?If the program has
> terminated, and you run it a second time on the following day (or after
> changing the system time), then I'd expect no trouble. ?But I'm guessing
> your program is still running, and you just want to change fromlogging
> to yesterday's file tologgingto today's file.
>
> If I had to guess, I'd say that you have two instances of the logger
> running, and the second one is still holding the handle open. ?But
> that's just a wild guess.
>

It's certainly possible that there are two instances of the handler,
which would cause this problem. Other things which might cause this
problem are the file handle inherited by a child process, an anti-
virus scanner having the file open for scanning (anti-virus scanners
often scan files which have just been written, like log files) and
indexing software such as Google Desktop or Windows' own indexing
service.

I would advise using sysinternals tools such as FileMon and Handle to
see what's holding the file open.

Regards,


Vinay Sajip


From scholz.lothar at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 06:45:10 2009
From: scholz.lothar at gmail.com (llothar)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 03:45:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: UML for Python or some other Graphical Notation Language
Message-ID: <2eabd7a9-2517-41b3-a3be-183171c04372@2g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

This is more an academic question right now but was there ever some
work in progress how UML could be made better for Python or script
languages in general.

It is so extremely deep interwoven with Java/C++ language
implementations that there are a lot of modified notiations necessary.

Or is there anything else then UML?
Eiffel still has BON for example.


From helvinlui at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 07:22:13 2009
From: helvinlui at gmail.com (Helvin)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 04:22:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Search and write to .txt file
Message-ID: 

Hi everyone,

I am writing some python script that should find a line which contains
'1' in the data.txt file, then be able to move a certain number of
lines down, before replacing a line. At the moment, I am able to find
the line '1', but when I use f.seek to move, and then rewrite, what I
write goes to the end of the .txt file, instead of being adjusted by
my f.seek.

Do you know what way I should take?

Data.txt is a file of 3 lines:
   line1
   line2
   line3

Code:

   with open('data.txt', 'r+') as f:
       firstread = f.readlines()   # Take a snapshot of initial file

       f.seek(0,0)    # Go back to beginning and search
       for line in f:
           print line
           if line.find('1'):
               print 'line matched'
               f.seek(1,1)       # Move one space along
               f.write('house\n')     # f.write overwrites the exact
number of bytes.
               break                    # leave loop once '1' is found

       f.seek(0,0)              # Go back to beginning, and read
data.txt again
       lastread = f.readlines()

       print 'firstread is', firstread
       print 'lastread is', lastread

This shouldn't be too difficult, but I don't know how. > <
Help appreciated!


From lujan at ceam.es  Tue Aug 11 07:26:42 2009
From: lujan at ceam.es (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Alonso_Luj=E1n_Torres_Ta=F1o?=)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:26:42 +0200
Subject: add fields in a existing dbf
Message-ID: <4A815572.1020905@ceam.es>

Hi!

I'm trying to modify a dbf adding a new field in a python script, but I 
can't.

Just I can add a field in new dbf created in the same script.

I tryed with:

    db = dbf.Dbf("../filesource.dbf",new =False, readOnly=False)
    ...
    db.addField(("PESO","N",32,8))

and return error:

    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "script.py", line 34, in 
        db.addField(("PESO","N",32,8))
      File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/dbfpy/dbf.py", line 229, in
    addField
        "structure can't be changed")
    TypeError: ('At least one record was added, ', "structure can't be
    changed")


I have not idea of what error I make.

If someone can help me, I'll so gratefull.

Thanks!
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From kushal.kumaran+python at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 07:34:35 2009
From: kushal.kumaran+python at gmail.com (Kushal Kumaran)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 17:04:35 +0530
Subject: Search and write to .txt file
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <1e364c4e0908110434m52701b64vebca82dbbec8d300@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 4:52 PM, Helvin wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I am writing some python script that should find a line which contains
> '1' in the data.txt file, then be able to move a certain number of
> lines down, before replacing a line. At the moment, I am able to find
> the line '1', but when I use f.seek to move, and then rewrite, what I
> write goes to the end of the .txt file, instead of being adjusted by
> my f.seek.
>
> Do you know what way I should take?
>

It might be easier to read the file into a list of lines (using
readlines, as you do in your code already), make your change there and
write it back to a file.  If your file is indeed as small as you
indicate below, that should be significantly easier.

> Data.txt is a file of 3 lines:
> ? line1
> ? line2
> ? line3
>
> Code:
>
> ? with open('data.txt', 'r+') as f:
> ? ? ? firstread = f.readlines() ? # Take a snapshot of initial file
>
> ? ? ? f.seek(0,0) ? ?# Go back to beginning and search
> ? ? ? for line in f:
> ? ? ? ? ? print line
> ? ? ? ? ? if line.find('1'):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print 'line matched'
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? f.seek(1,1) ? ? ? # Move one space along
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? f.write('house\n') ? ? # f.write overwrites the exact
> number of bytes.
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? break ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?# leave loop once '1' is found
>
> ? ? ? f.seek(0,0) ? ? ? ? ? ? ?# Go back to beginning, and read
> data.txt again
> ? ? ? lastread = f.readlines()
>
> ? ? ? print 'firstread is', firstread
> ? ? ? print 'lastread is', lastread
>
> This shouldn't be too difficult, but I don't know how. > <
> Help appreciated!


From davea at ieee.org  Tue Aug 11 07:37:25 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 07:37:25 -0400
Subject: dictionary help
In-Reply-To: <4A809AF80200008C000149EC@redhorse.forestry.uga.edu>
References: <4A809AF80200008C000149EC@redhorse.forestry.uga.edu>
Message-ID: <4A8157F5.1010103@ieee.org>

Krishna Pacifici wrote:
> Hi,
> kind of a newbie here, but I have two questions that are probably pretty simple.
>
> 1.  I need to get rid of duplicate values that are associated with different keys in a dictionary.  For example I have the following code.
> s={}
> s[0]=[10,2,3]
>  s[10]=[22,23,24]
>  s[20]=[45,5]
> s[30]=[2,4]
> s[40]=[6,7,8]
>
> Now I want to be able to loop through the primary keys and get rid of duplicates (both in keys and values) so that I would have either a new dictionary or the same dictionary but with the following values:
>
> s[0]=[3]
>  s[10]=[22,23,24]
>  s[20]=[45,5]
> s[30]=[2,4]
> s[40]=[6,7,8]
>
> It doesn't matter which value gets removed as long as there is only one remaining, so in this example it doesn't matter that 2 got removed from s[0] or from s[30] as long as there is only one 2 in the dictionary.
>
> 2.  I need to be able to loop over the values in the dictionary when there are multiple values assigned to each key like above and assign new values to those values.  Taking the above example I would want to assign a new value so that when you called s[0] it would equal [3,4] say if 4 was the new value.  I think this should be as simple as adding a value, but I kept on having difficulty.
>
> Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thank you very much,
> Krishna
>
>
>   
Sounds like homework.  If it was for an unconstrained project, I'd 
design a different data structure, one that directly enforced the data 
constraints.  So far, I can't imagine a useful reason for this 
particular set of constraints.

Let's break the problems down.

1a)   Do you know how to write a loop that visits all the keys of a 
dictionary?
1b)  Do you know how to safely check if a particular key exists?     
e.g.      if   key in s:
1c)  Do you know how to collect a set of values, so that when a 
duplicate is found, it can be recognized as such?
1d) Do you know how to remove an item from a list?

2a)  Like 1a)
2b) Do you know how to append a value to the end of a list?  Is s[key] a 
list?


DaveA



From deets at nospam.web.de  Tue Aug 11 07:49:04 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:49:04 +0200
Subject: UML for Python or some other Graphical Notation Language
References: <2eabd7a9-2517-41b3-a3be-183171c04372@2g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7ed45gF2evk04U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

llothar wrote:

> This is more an academic question right now but was there ever some
> work in progress how UML could be made better for Python or script
> languages in general.
> 
> It is so extremely deep interwoven with Java/C++ language
> implementations that there are a lot of modified notiations necessary.
> 
> Or is there anything else then UML?
> Eiffel still has BON for example.

http://fptiny.blogspot.com/2008/03/rad-with-tiny-erp.html

Diez


From skip at pobox.com  Tue Aug 11 08:40:31 2009
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 07:40:31 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: test message
Message-ID: <20090811124031.4B11911ACFB4@montanaro.dyndns.org>

Sorry for the low content email.  Testing the mail-to-news gateway on
mail.python.org.  Don't flame me for not using a test newsgroup. ;-)

-- 
Skip Montanaro - skip at pobox.com - http://www.smontanaro.net/
    Getting old sucks, but it beats dying young


From skip.montanaro at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 09:00:54 2009
From: skip.montanaro at gmail.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 06:00:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: test message
References: 
Message-ID: <7e0b6c26-b95d-48a5-a16e-bbbc7361f240@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 11, 7:40?am, s... at pobox.com wrote:
> Sorry for the low content email. ?Testing the mail-to-news gateway on
> mail.python.org. ?Don't flame me for not using a test newsgroup. ;-)

Posting a followup to test the return path (news-to-mail).

S


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Tue Aug 11 09:30:12 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 15:30:12 +0200
Subject: Search and write to .txt file
References: 
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Helvin  (H) wrote:

>H> Hi everyone,
>H> I am writing some python script that should find a line which contains
>H> '1' in the data.txt file, then be able to move a certain number of
>H> lines down, before replacing a line. At the moment, I am able to find
>H> the line '1', but when I use f.seek to move, and then rewrite, what I
>H> write goes to the end of the .txt file, instead of being adjusted by
>H> my f.seek.

>H> Do you know what way I should take?

>H> Data.txt is a file of 3 lines:
>H>    line1
>H>    line2
>H>    line3

>H> Code:

>H>    with open('data.txt', 'r+') as f:
>H>        firstread = f.readlines()   # Take a snapshot of initial file

>H>        f.seek(0,0)    # Go back to beginning and search
>H>        for line in f:
>H>            print line
>H>            if line.find('1'):
>H>                print 'line matched'
>H>                f.seek(1,1)       # Move one space along
>H>                f.write('house\n')     # f.write overwrites the exact
>H> number of bytes.
>H>                break                    # leave loop once '1' is found

Mixing an iterator on the file with direct calls (seek/write) isn't
going to work. The iterator does read ahead which causes the file
position not to be what you think it is.

See:

>>> with open('data.txt', 'r+') as f:
...   for line in f:
...       print line, f.tell()
... 
line1
18
line2
18
line3
18

-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From bmorab at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 09:49:58 2009
From: bmorab at gmail.com (telekab1@hotmail.com)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 06:49:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Extracting matrix from a text file
Message-ID: 

Hello to all!!

I am new in python, and I am running it on Mac with Smultron editor. I
need to read a textfile that includes numbers (in a matrix form),
indexes, and strings, like this:

Marsyas-kea distance matrix for MIREX 2007 Audio Similarity Exchange
Q/R        1                   2                   3
4                5
1        0                  4.54592        4.36685
5.29463        3.85728
2        4.54592        0                  3.97667
5.02151        4.64284
3        4.36685        3.97667        0
4.98743        4.83683
4        5.29463        5.02151        4.98743
0                  6.04393
5        3.85728        4.64284        4.83683        6.04393        0

My code to get this information is:

matrix = open("dmatrix_5.txt");

while 1:
    mat = matrix.readline()
    if not mat:
    	break
    pass # do something
    print mat



So I just want to keep the matrix in the "middle" for math
computations.

        0                  4.54592        4.36685
5.29463        3.85728
        4.54592        0                  3.97667
5.02151        4.64284
        4.36685        3.97667        0
4.98743        4.83683
        5.29463        5.02151        4.98743
0                  6.04393
        3.85728        4.64284        4.83683        6.04393        0


I've seen and tried a lot of ways, like split or isinstance.. but
never get the wanted result.... does anyone have an idea, or hint?
Thank you once more for your help!

Best Regards,
Bea


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Tue Aug 11 09:50:01 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 15:50:01 +0200
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<3611ca55-79a6-4336-9041-07d0893789f7@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
	<0447e8a2-508d-45b2-8d15-da0cc2a56b5f@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Steven D'Aprano  (SD) wrote:

>SD> If I'm reading this page correctly, Python does behave as C++ does. Or at 
>SD> least as Larch/C++ does:

>SD> http://www.cs.ucf.edu/~leavens/larchc++manual/lcpp_47.html

They call them `non-standard escape sequences' for a reason: that they
are not in standard C++.

test.cpp:
char* temp = "abc\yz";

TEMP> g++ -c test.cpp
test.cpp:1:1: warning: unknown escape sequence '\y'

-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Aug 11 09:52:29 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:52:29 +0100
Subject: Search and write to .txt file
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Helvin wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I am writing some python script that should find a line which contains
> '1' in the data.txt file, then be able to move a certain number of
> lines down, before replacing a line. At the moment, I am able to find
> the line '1', but when I use f.seek to move, and then rewrite, what I
> write goes to the end of the .txt file, instead of being adjusted by
> my f.seek.
> 
> Do you know what way I should take?
> 
> Data.txt is a file of 3 lines:
>    line1
>    line2
>    line3
> 
> Code:
> 
>    with open('data.txt', 'r+') as f:
>        firstread = f.readlines()   # Take a snapshot of initial file
> 
>        f.seek(0,0)    # Go back to beginning and search
>        for line in f:
>            print line
>            if line.find('1'):
>                print 'line matched'
>                f.seek(1,1)       # Move one space along
>                f.write('house\n')     # f.write overwrites the exact
> number of bytes.
>                break                    # leave loop once '1' is found
> 
>        f.seek(0,0)              # Go back to beginning, and read
> data.txt again
>        lastread = f.readlines()
> 
>        print 'firstread is', firstread
>        print 'lastread is', lastread
> 
> This shouldn't be too difficult, but I don't know how. > <
> Help appreciated!
You can't mix and match the file iterator "for line in f" with the seek 
method.  You already have the data in firstread, why not process it from 
there, i.e. "for line in firstread".  Also look at the docs for the find 
method, it doesn't return what you think it does.

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Aug 11 10:04:31 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 15:04:31 +0100
Subject: Extracting matrix from a text file
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

telekab1 at hotmail.com wrote:
> Hello to all!!
> 
> I am new in python, and I am running it on Mac with Smultron editor. I
> need to read a textfile that includes numbers (in a matrix form),
> indexes, and strings, like this:
> 
> Marsyas-kea distance matrix for MIREX 2007 Audio Similarity Exchange
> Q/R        1                   2                   3
> 4                5
> 1        0                  4.54592        4.36685
> 5.29463        3.85728
> 2        4.54592        0                  3.97667
> 5.02151        4.64284
> 3        4.36685        3.97667        0
> 4.98743        4.83683
> 4        5.29463        5.02151        4.98743
> 0                  6.04393
> 5        3.85728        4.64284        4.83683        6.04393        0
> 
> My code to get this information is:
> 
> matrix = open("dmatrix_5.txt");
> 
> while 1:
>     mat = matrix.readline()
>     if not mat:
>     	break
>     pass # do something
>     print mat
> 
> 
> 
> So I just want to keep the matrix in the "middle" for math
> computations.
> 
>         0                  4.54592        4.36685
> 5.29463        3.85728
>         4.54592        0                  3.97667
> 5.02151        4.64284
>         4.36685        3.97667        0
> 4.98743        4.83683
>         5.29463        5.02151        4.98743
> 0                  6.04393
>         3.85728        4.64284        4.83683        6.04393        0
> 
> 
> I've seen and tried a lot of ways, like split or isinstance.. but
> never get the wanted result.... does anyone have an idea, or hint?
> Thank you once more for your help!
> 
> Best Regards,
> Bea
I think your best bet is to read and action the responses you got to 
your original email from three days ago.  If these have got lost in the 
post simply search online, they're bound to be archived somewhere.

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Tue Aug 11 10:12:17 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 07:12:17 -0700
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
In-Reply-To: <0985e0fe54bf41fa3736cd6697d42bf4@preisshare.net>
References: 			<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>		<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>		<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro	ups.com>
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>			<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	
	<4A80472E.4090108@stoneleaf.us>
	<0985e0fe54bf41fa3736cd6697d42bf4@preisshare.net>
Message-ID: <4A817C41.2050607@stoneleaf.us>

David Lyon wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:13:34 -0700, Ethan Furman 
> wrote:
> 
>>As someone who relies heavily on the docs I will also say that the idea 
>>of giving the ability to modify the official documentation to somebody 
>>who is /learning/ the language is, quite frankly, terrifying.  
> 
> 
> What is more terrifying is the way feedback from newbies is handled.
> 
> Your statement implies that the only way feedback can be handled is
> to throw the keys down in discust and walk away. That's primative
> behaviour. And misleading, because that isn't going to happen.
> 

Allow me to put back the sentence you unfairly snipped:
> I have no issues with a seperate system, some of which have been 
> suggested, but good reference documentation is crucial.  If you find 
> examples lacking, there are plenty of web-sites, or even (dare I say
> it?) actual hard-copy books!  ;)

To be clear, what I am advocating is that *official documentation not be 
opened up to everybody,* _especially not people who don't yet grok the 
language_.

> 
>>My bookshelf currently has Learning Python, Programming 
>>Python, Python Cookbook, Python Programming on Win32, and Regular 
>>Expressions.  All great books, and not too pricey if you can get them
> 
> used.
> 
> So, what you're advocating is let things stay how they are...
> 
> Ignore feedback... tell people to freak off...
> 
> 

I had not addressed feedback before, but I shall do so now:  Discuss 
concern on the Python list first to make sure it is not a lack of 
understanding, then, if a legitimate issue with the docs exists, use the 
bug tracker.  If one can't be bothered to take the time to be a 
Responsible Citizen, I am not going to be bothered by lacking that one's 
comments/concerns/feed-back.

~Ethan~


From davea at ieee.org  Tue Aug 11 10:22:49 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:22:49 -0400
Subject: Search and write to .txt file
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <4A817EB9.9040807@ieee.org>

Piet van Oostrum wrote:
>>>>>> Helvin  (H) wrote:
>>>>>>             
>
>   
>> H> Hi everyone,
>> H> I am writing some python script that should find a line which contains
>> H> '1' in the data.txt file, then be able to move a certain number of
>> H> lines down, before replacing a line. At the moment, I am able to find
>> H> the line '1', but when I use f.seek to move, and then rewrite, what I
>> H> write goes to the end of the .txt file, instead of being adjusted by
>> H> my f.seek.
>>     
>
>   
>> H> Do you know what way I should take?
>>     
>
>   
>> H> Data.txt is a file of 3 lines:
>> H>    line1
>> H>    line2
>> H>    line3
>>     
>
>   
>> H> Code:
>>     
>
>   
>> H>    with open('data.txt', 'r+') as f:
>> H>        firstread = f.readlines()   # Take a snapshot of initial file
>>     
>
>   
>> H>        f.seek(0,0)    # Go back to beginning and search
>> H>        for line in f:
>> H>            print line
>> H>            if line.find('1'):
>> H>                print 'line matched'
>> H>                f.seek(1,1)       # Move one space along
>> H>                f.write('house\n')     # f.write overwrites the exact
>> H> number of bytes.
>> H>                break                    # leave loop once '1' is found
>>     
>
> Mixing an iterator on the file with direct calls (seek/write) isn't
> going to work. The iterator does read ahead which causes the file
> position not to be what you think it is.
>
> See:
>
>   
>>>> with open('data.txt', 'r+') as f:
>>>>         
> ...   for line in f:
> ...       print line, f.tell()
> ... 
> line1
> 18
> line2
> 18
> line3
> 18
>
>   
In addition to the buffering involved in the read loop, trying to 
position ahead some number of lines would be rather error prone, since 
this is a text file, with varying length lines, and the \n character 
might occupy one byte on some OS, and two bytes on others (Windows).  If 
you feel you must do it in-place, then switch the file mode to binary, 
and use read(), not readline(), keeping track of your own position at 
all times.

As was already suggested by Kushal, if the file is small enough to just 
use readlines() and manipulate that list, I'd do that.  If not, I'd scan 
through the file, creating a new one, creating a new one as you go, then 
rename the new one back when finished.  Actually, I'd create a new one 
even in the first case, in case of a crash while rewriting the file.


DaveA


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Tue Aug 11 10:35:54 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 07:35:54 -0700
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
In-Reply-To: 
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>							<86e09602-7eb1-4397-a77f-fb1e3c5b34b9@k26g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4A8181CA.9050200@stoneleaf.us>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 08:21:03 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:
> 
> 
>>But you're right, it's too late to change this now.
> 
> 
> Not really. There is a procedure for making non-backwards compatible 
> changes. If you care deeply enough about this, you could agitate for 
> Python 3.2 to raise a PendingDepreciation warning for "unexpected" escape 
> sequences like \z, Python 3.3 to raise a Depreciation warning, and Python 
> 3.4 to treat it as an error.
> 
> It may even be possible to skip the PendingDepreciation warning and go 
> straight for Depreciation warning in 3.2.
> 
> 

And once it's fully depreciated you have to stop writing it off on your 
taxes.  *wink*

~Ethan~


From Nikolaus at rath.org  Tue Aug 11 10:44:11 2009
From: Nikolaus at rath.org (Nikolaus Rath)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:44:11 -0400
Subject: Profiling a Callback Function
Message-ID: <1250001851.3970.15.camel@inspiron.ap.columbia.edu>

Hello,

I am trying to profile a Python program that primarily calls a C
extension. From within the C extension, a callback Python function is
then called concurrently in several threads.

When I tried to profile this application with

  import c_extension
  def callback_fn(args):
      # Do all sorts of complicated, time consuming stuff
      pass

  def main():
      c_extension.call_me_back(callback_fn, some_random_args)

  cProfile.run('main', 'profile.dat')

I only got results for main(), but no information at all about
callback_fn.


What is the proper way to profile such an application? 


I already thought about this:

  import c_extension

  def callback_fn(args):
      # Do all sorts of complicated, time consuming stuff
      pass
  
  def callback_wrapper(args):
       def doit():
           callback_fn(args)

       cProfile.run('doit', 'profile.dat')

  c_extension.call_me_back(callback_wrapper, some_random_args)


but that probably overwrites the profiling information whenever
callback_wrapper is called, instead of accumulating them over several
calls (with different arguments).


Best,


   -Nikolaus

-- 
 ?Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a Banana.?

  PGP fingerprint: 5B93 61F8 4EA2 E279 ABF6  02CF A9AD B7F8 AE4E 425C




From cjw at ncf.ca  Tue Aug 11 10:45:28 2009
From: cjw at ncf.ca (Colin J. Williams)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:45:28 -0400
Subject: Extracting matrix from a text file
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A818408.6080506@ncf.ca>

telekab1 at hotmail.com wrote:
> Hello to all!!
> 
> I am new in python, and I am running it on Mac with Smultron editor. I
> need to read a textfile that includes numbers (in a matrix form),
> indexes, and strings, like this:
> 
> Marsyas-kea distance matrix for MIREX 2007 Audio Similarity Exchange
> Q/R        1                   2                   3
> 4                5
> 1        0                  4.54592        4.36685
> 5.29463        3.85728
> 2        4.54592        0                  3.97667
> 5.02151        4.64284
> 3        4.36685        3.97667        0
> 4.98743        4.83683
> 4        5.29463        5.02151        4.98743
> 0                  6.04393
> 5        3.85728        4.64284        4.83683        6.04393        0
> 
> My code to get this information is:
> 
> matrix = open("dmatrix_5.txt");
> 
> while 1:
>     mat = matrix.readline()
>     if not mat:
>     	break
>     pass # do something
>     print mat
> 
> 
> 
> So I just want to keep the matrix in the "middle" for math
> computations.
> 
>         0                  4.54592        4.36685
> 5.29463        3.85728
>         4.54592        0                  3.97667
> 5.02151        4.64284
>         4.36685        3.97667        0
> 4.98743        4.83683
>         5.29463        5.02151        4.98743
> 0                  6.04393
>         3.85728        4.64284        4.83683        6.04393        0
> 
> 
> I've seen and tried a lot of ways, like split or isinstance.. but
> never get the wanted result.... does anyone have an idea, or hint?
> Thank you once more for your help!
> 
> Best Regards,
> Bea

numpy provides an answer.  See the little script below:

import numpy as _n
import string as _s
a=  "0       4.54592 4.36685 5.29463 3.85728 " + \
   "4.54592 0       3.97667 5.02151 4.64284 "   + \
   '4.36685 3.97667 0       4.98743 4.83683 '   + \
   '5.29463 5.02151 4.98743 0       6.04393 '   + \
   '3.85728 4.64284 4.83683 6.04393 0'

d= _n.mat(_n.reshape(_n.array(a.split(), dtype= _n.float), (5, 5)))
print repr(d)
print 'Default printoptions:', _n.get_printoptions()

for p in range(9):
   _n.set_printoptions(precision= p)
   print 'precision= ', p, '\n', d

When you run this, you'll see that there is a numpy glitch for precisions > 5.

Colin W.


From rurpy at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 11 10:57:28 2009
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 07:57:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On 08/11/2009 01:47 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> r  gmail.com>  writes:
>> On Aug 9, 11:02 pm, David Lyon  wrote:
>>> Since you're talking about documentation, which is a part of python,
>>> don't you think you should be discussing it on python-dev ?
>> Yea, them's be a friendly bunch to noob ideas ;). Hey i got a better
>> idea, lets go to the IRS and see if we can persuade them to stop
>> taxing us...
>
> You know, the most interesting thing in this thread is certainly its title :
> ? Social problems of Python doc ?
>
> Yes, the little social problem here should be clear: if you have complaints to
> voice or improvements to suggest to the Python docs, you should do so on the
> issue tracker (*). For most topics, this is the only reasonable way to signal
> problems to the Python developers community, and so it is in most free software
> / open source projects.

"the *only* reasonable way"?  That's clearly wrong (unless you
want to wiggle in the room provided by "reasonable" or "most").
There is discussion on the dev list, there is discussion here.

The issue tracker is fine for many things, but the process it
provides is equivalent to peep-hole optimization.  How does one
submit a tracker issue for something like the overall organization
of the docs (for example, the mis-placement of things like data-
types in the library manual rather than the language manual)?

The big problem with the docs is poor writing (this includes
not using examples when they can help explain something more
clearly than verbiage alone).  It is understandable why this
should be so -- most programmers are good at and enjoy
programming, not writing and the python community is, say,
about 99.9% programmers.

This is why all the attempts (at least that I've noticed) are
programming focused -- build a wiki, write a new doc processing
framework, etc.  Unfortunately none of those addresses the real
problem -- the need for clear, well written, well organized
*content*.  I don't see how telling people to submit tracker
issues will solve this problem.  I can rewrite some section so
it sounds good to me, but likely it will be just as bad (perhaps
in different ways) that what is there.

The post that started this thread proposed something like paying
professional writers to improve the docs.  This may or may not
be a practical suggestion.  But the immediate response it
engendered was an auto-immune-like group response: the docs
are great already, don't complain, fix them yourself, yada, yada;
the same response that any criticism of free software produces.

It's really too bad the the python community can't seriously
discuss ways to improves the docs.  There are other possibilities
for instance the Fedora Docs project (can't say I'm impressed
by what they've produced but that doesn't mean their model
is useless).  There is a need for an approval process managed
by someone who actually understands what good technical writing
is.  And perhaps editors who can polish or work with programmers
who provide the raw technical description of some module.

Some kind of higher level more global process is the only
way I can see that the docs will be improved to any sort
or professional standard.  I don't see how issues like this
will be addressed by submitting tracker items.

Personally, I have given up on this issue.  The social factors
involved really pretty much determine that the Python docs
will never reach a very high quality -- that's just the way
it is and I've come to accept that.


From pacificik at warnell.uga.edu  Tue Aug 11 11:13:28 2009
From: pacificik at warnell.uga.edu (Krishna Pacifici)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 11:13:28 -0400
Subject: dictionary help
Message-ID: <4A8152580200008C00014A44@redhorse.forestry.uga.edu>

Thanks for the help.

Actually this is part of a much larger project, but I have unfortunately pigeon-holed myself into needing to do these things without a whole lot of flexibility.

To give a specific example I have the following dictionary where I need to remove values that are duplicated with other values and remove values that are duplicates of the keys, but still retain it as a dictionary.  Each value is itself a class with many attributes that I need to call later on in the program, but I cannot have duplicates because it would mess up some estimation part of my model.

d =
{36: [35, 37, 26, 46], 75: [74, 76, 65, 85], 21: [20, 22, 11, 31], 22: [21, 23, 12, 32], 26: [25, 27, 16, 36], 30: [20, 31, 40]}

So I want a new dictionary that would get rid of the duplicate values of 21, 22, 36 and 20 and give me back a dictionary that looked like this:

new_d=
{36: [35, 37, 26, 46], 75: [74, 76, 65, 85], 21: [20, 11, 31], 22: [23, 12, 32], 26: [25, 27, 16], 30: [40]}

I understand that a dictionary may not be the best approach, but like I said I have sort of pigeon-holed myself by the way that I am simulating my data and the estimation model that I am using.  Any suggestions or comments about the above problem would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again,
Krishna



>>> Dave Angel  08/11/09 7:38 AM >>>
Krishna Pacifici wrote:
> Hi,
> kind of a newbie here, but I have two questions that are probably pretty simple.
>
> 1.  I need to get rid of duplicate values that are associated with different keys in a dictionary.  For example I have the following code.
> s={}
> s[0]=[10,2,3]
>  s[10]=[22,23,24]
>  s[20]=[45,5]
> s[30]=[2,4]
> s[40]=[6,7,8]
>
> Now I want to be able to loop through the primary keys and get rid of duplicates (both in keys and values) so that I would have either a new dictionary or the same dictionary but with the following values:
>
> s[0]=[3]
>  s[10]=[22,23,24]
>  s[20]=[45,5]
> s[30]=[2,4]
> s[40]=[6,7,8]
>
> It doesn't matter which value gets removed as long as there is only one remaining, so in this example it doesn't matter that 2 got removed from s[0] or from s[30] as long as there is only one 2 in the dictionary.
>
> 2.  I need to be able to loop over the values in the dictionary when there are multiple values assigned to each key like above and assign new values to those values.  Taking the above example I would want to assign a new value so that when you called s[0] it would equal [3,4] say if 4 was the new value.  I think this should be as simple as adding a value, but I kept on having difficulty.
>
> Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thank you very much,
> Krishna
>
>
>   
Sounds like homework.  If it was for an unconstrained project, I'd 
design a different data structure, one that directly enforced the data 
constraints.  So far, I can't imagine a useful reason for this 
particular set of constraints.

Let's break the problems down.

1a)   Do you know how to write a loop that visits all the keys of a 
dictionary?
1b)  Do you know how to safely check if a particular key exists?     
e.g.      if   key in s:
1c)  Do you know how to collect a set of values, so that when a 
duplicate is found, it can be recognized as such?
1d) Do you know how to remove an item from a list?

2a)  Like 1a)
2b) Do you know how to append a value to the end of a list?  Is s[key] a 
list?


DaveA


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From sajmikins at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 11:44:04 2009
From: sajmikins at gmail.com (Simon Forman)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 08:44:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Search and write to .txt file
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 11, 7:22?am, Helvin  wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I am writing some python script that should find a line which contains
> '1' in the data.txt file, then be able to move a certain number of
> lines down, before replacing a line. At the moment, I am able to find
> the line '1', but when I use f.seek to move, and then rewrite, what I
> write goes to the end of the .txt file, instead of being adjusted by
> my f.seek.
>
> Do you know what way I should take?
>
> Data.txt is a file of 3 lines:
> ? ?line1
> ? ?line2
> ? ?line3
>
> Code:
>
> ? ?with open('data.txt', 'r+') as f:
> ? ? ? ?firstread = f.readlines() ? # Take a snapshot of initial file
>
> ? ? ? ?f.seek(0,0) ? ?# Go back to beginning and search
> ? ? ? ?for line in f:
> ? ? ? ? ? ?print line
> ? ? ? ? ? ?if line.find('1'):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?print 'line matched'
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?f.seek(1,1) ? ? ? # Move one space along
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?f.write('house\n') ? ? # f.write overwrites the exact
> number of bytes.
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?break ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?# leave loop once '1' is found
>
> ? ? ? ?f.seek(0,0) ? ? ? ? ? ? ?# Go back to beginning, and read
> data.txt again
> ? ? ? ?lastread = f.readlines()
>
> ? ? ? ?print 'firstread is', firstread
> ? ? ? ?print 'lastread is', lastread
>
> This shouldn't be too difficult, but I don't know how. > <
> Help appreciated!

There's a bug in this line:

if line.find('1'):

the string find() method returns an integer, which will be -1 if the
substring is not found. In python -1 is treated as True (only 0 is
False) so your if statement will always succeed unless '1' is the
first character on the line.

HTH,
~Simon


P.S. you can use the help() command in the python interpreter to get
docs on most things:

>>> help(str.find)

Help on method_descriptor:

find(...)
    S.find(sub [,start [,end]]) -> int

    Return the lowest index in S where substring sub is found,
    such that sub is contained within s[start:end].  Optional
    arguments start and end are interpreted as in slice notation.

    Return -1 on failure.



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Tue Aug 11 11:51:42 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 16:51:42 +0100
Subject: dictionary help
In-Reply-To: <4A8152580200008C00014A44@redhorse.forestry.uga.edu>
References: <4A8152580200008C00014A44@redhorse.forestry.uga.edu>
Message-ID: <4A81938E.3070509@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Krishna Pacifici wrote:
> Thanks for the help.
> 
> Actually this is part of a much larger project, but I have unfortunately 
> pigeon-holed myself into needing to do these things without a whole lot 
> of flexibility.
> 
> To give a specific example I have the following dictionary where I need 
> to remove values that are duplicated with other values and remove values 
> that are duplicates of the keys, but still retain it as a dictionary.  
> Each value is itself a class with many attributes that I need to call 
> later on in the program, but I cannot have duplicates because it would 
> mess up some estimation part of my model.
> 
> d =
> {36: [35, 37, 26, 46], 75: [74, 76, 65, 85], 21: [20, 22, 11, 31], 22: 
> [21, 23, 12, 32], 26: [25, 27, 16, 36], 30: [20, 31, 40]}
> 
> So I want a new dictionary that would get rid of the duplicate values of 
> 21, 22, 36 and 20 and give me back a dictionary that looked like this:
> 
> new_d=
> {36: [35, 37, 26, 46], 75: [74, 76, 65, 85], 21: [20, 11, 31], 22: [23, 
> 12, 32], 26: [25, 27, 16], 30: [40]}
> 
> I understand that a dictionary may not be the best approach, but like I 
> said I have sort of pigeon-holed myself by the way that I am simulating 
> my data and the estimation model that I am using.  Any suggestions or 
> comments about the above problem would be greatly appreciated.
> 
 >>> d = {36: [35, 37, 26, 46], 75: [74, 76, 65, 85], 21: [20, 22, 11,
31], 22: [21, 23, 12, 32], 26: [25, 27, 16, 36], 30: [20, 31, 40]}
 >>> new_d = {}
 >>> seen = set(d.keys())
 >>> for k, v in d.items():
...     new_d[k] = [x for x in v if x not in seen]
...     seen |= set(new_d[k])
...
 >>> new_d
{36: [35, 37, 46], 75: [74, 76, 65, 85], 21: [20, 11, 31], 22: [23, 12,
32], 26: [25, 27, 16], 30: [40]}



From sajmikins at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 12:10:10 2009
From: sajmikins at gmail.com (Simon Forman)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 09:10:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: dictionary help
References: <4A8152580200008C00014A44@redhorse.forestry.uga.edu> 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 11, 11:51?am, MRAB  wrote:
> Krishna Pacifici wrote:
> > Thanks for the help.
>
> > Actually this is part of a much larger project, but I have unfortunately
> > pigeon-holed myself into needing to do these things without a whole lot
> > of flexibility.
>
> > To give a specific example I have the following dictionary where I need
> > to remove values that are duplicated with other values and remove values
> > that are duplicates of the keys, but still retain it as a dictionary. ?
> > Each value is itself a class with many attributes that I need to call
> > later on in the program, but I cannot have duplicates because it would
> > mess up some estimation part of my model.
>
> > d =
> > {36: [35, 37, 26, 46], 75: [74, 76, 65, 85], 21: [20, 22, 11, 31], 22:
> > [21, 23, 12, 32], 26: [25, 27, 16, 36], 30: [20, 31, 40]}
>
> > So I want a new dictionary that would get rid of the duplicate values of
> > 21, 22, 36 and 20 and give me back a dictionary that looked like this:
>
> > new_d=
> > {36: [35, 37, 26, 46], 75: [74, 76, 65, 85], 21: [20, 11, 31], 22: [23,
> > 12, 32], 26: [25, 27, 16], 30: [40]}
>
> > I understand that a dictionary may not be the best approach, but like I
> > said I have sort of pigeon-holed myself by the way that I am simulating
> > my data and the estimation model that I am using. ?Any suggestions or
> > comments about the above problem would be greatly appreciated.
>
> ?>>> d = {36: [35, 37, 26, 46], 75: [74, 76, 65, 85], 21: [20, 22, 11,
> 31], 22: [21, 23, 12, 32], 26: [25, 27, 16, 36], 30: [20, 31, 40]}
> ?>>> new_d = {}
> ?>>> seen = set(d.keys())
> ?>>> for k, v in d.items():
> ... ? ? new_d[k] = [x for x in v if x not in seen]
> ... ? ? seen |= set(new_d[k])
> ...
> ?>>> new_d
> {36: [35, 37, 46], 75: [74, 76, 65, 85], 21: [20, 11, 31], 22: [23, 12,
> 32], 26: [25, 27, 16], 30: [40]}

Ha ha, MRAB beat me to it:

d = {
    36: [35, 37, 26, 46],
    75: [74, 76, 65, 85],
    21: [20, 22, 11, 31],
    22: [21, 23, 12, 32],
    26: [25, 27, 16, 36],
    30: [20, 31, 40],
    }


new_d = { # Given, and apparently incorrect.
    36: [35, 37, 26, 46], # 26 is a key and should be gone.
    75: [74, 76, 65, 85],
    21: [20, 11, 31],
    22: [23, 12, 32],
    26: [25, 27, 16],
    30: [40],
    }


expected = {
    36: [35, 37, 46],
    75: [74, 76, 65, 85],
    21: [20, 11, 31],
    22: [23, 12, 32],
    26: [25, 27, 16],
    30: [40],
    }


def removeDuplicates(D):
    '''
    Remove values that are duplicated with other values
    and remove values that are duplicates of the keys.

    Assumes that values in the lists are already unique within
    each list.  I.e. duplicates are only in the keys or in other
    lists.

    This function works "in place" on D, so it doesn't return
    anything.  Caller must keep a reference to D.
    '''

    seen = set(D) # Get a set of the keys.

    for key, values_list in D.iteritems():

        # Filter out values that have already been seen.
        filtered_values = [
            value
            for value in values_list
            if not value in seen
            ]

        # Remember newly seen values.
        seen.update(filtered_values)

        D[key] = filtered_values


## Example:
##
##    >>> d == expected
##    False
##    >>> removeDuplicates(d)
##    >>> d == expected
##    True


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Tue Aug 11 12:12:44 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 09:12:44 -0700
Subject: add fields in a existing dbf
In-Reply-To: <4A815572.1020905@ceam.es>
References: <4A815572.1020905@ceam.es>
Message-ID: <4A81987C.4080800@stoneleaf.us>

Alonso Luj?n Torres Ta?o wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> I'm trying to modify a dbf adding a new field in a python script, but I 
> can't.
> 
> Just I can add a field in new dbf created in the same script.
> 
> I tryed with:
> 
>     db = dbf.Dbf("../filesource.dbf",new =False, readOnly=False)
>     ...
>     db.addField(("PESO","N",32,8))
> 
> and return error:
> 
>     Traceback (most recent call last):
>       File "script.py", line 34, in 
>         db.addField(("PESO","N",32,8))
>       File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/dbfpy/dbf.py", line 229, in
>     addField
>         "structure can't be changed")
>     TypeError: ('At least one record was added, ', "structure can't be
>     changed")
> 
> 
> I have not idea of what error I make.
> 
> If someone can help me, I'll so gratefull.
> 
> Thanks!
> 

I am not familiar with dbfpy, but the dbf files I am familiar with do 
not support 32 digit Numerics.  Did you mean 12?

At any rate, if you use http://groups.google.com/group/python-dbase

the commands would be:

import dbf
db = dbf.Table("../filesource.dbf")
db.add_fields("peso N(12.8)")
db.close()

and you'll have your field -- assuming, of course, you have write 
priveleges, etc.

Hope this helps!

~Ethan~

Disclaimer:  I am the author of python-dbase.


From petshmidt at googlemail.com  Tue Aug 11 12:33:52 2009
From: petshmidt at googlemail.com (someone)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 09:33:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: better way?
Message-ID: <9899e909-509e-47d4-a8e5-f9d70e0b8827@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I'd like to make insert into db if record not exist otherwise update.
to save typing list of columns in both statements I do following

query = "SELECT location FROM table WHERE location = %s AND id = %s;"
result = self._getResult(db, query, [location,id])

fields = ['id', 'location', 'wl', 'modified', 'counter', 'name']
if result:
    t = map(lambda s: s + ' = %s', fields)
    temp = ", ".join(t)
    query = "UPDATE table SET " + temp + " WHERE location = %s AND id
= %s;"
    self._execQuery(db, query, [id, location, self.wl, 'NOW()', 1,
name, location, id])
else:
    f = ", ".join(fields)
    query = """
        INSERT INTO table
        (""" + f + """)
        VALUES
        (%s,%s,%s,NOW()- interval '1 day', 1, %s)
    """
    self._execQuery(db, query, [id, location, self.wl, name])



is there better or more readable way to do it?

Pet


From bthate at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 12:41:37 2009
From: bthate at gmail.com (Bart Thate)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 09:41:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: GOZERBOT 0.9.1 released
Message-ID: <0fefbd87-efa2-4eaa-afe1-9e5b7ec5ad86@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

here it is .. GOZERBOT 0.9.1 !!

Main change this time is the distribution method, we now provide a
tar.gz with all the dependencies included. This means that you can run
the bot locally without any root required. Python 2.5 or higher
needed, see http://gozerbot.org

Enjoy !

about GOZERBOT:

GOZERBOT is a channel bot that aids with conversation in irc channels
and
jabber conference rooms. its mainly used to serve rss feeds and to
have
custom commands made for the channel. More then just a channel bot
GOZERBOT
aims to provide a platform for the user to program his own bot and
make it
into something thats usefull. This is done with a plugin structure
that
makes it easy to program your own. But GOZERBOT comes with some
batteries
included, there are now over 100 plugins already written and ready for
use.


From emile at fenx.com  Tue Aug 11 12:49:19 2009
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 09:49:19 -0700
Subject: Is there any package implanation the following arithmetics?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 8/11/2009 1:49 AM zhongshq said...
> Hi,
> 
> I wonder if there has any package can check whether two rectangles are
> overlap, is a dot inside or outside a polygon, etc.

PythonCad at http://sourceforge.net/projects/pythoncad/ has 
intersections built in.

Emile



From rt8396 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 12:49:31 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 09:49:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References:   
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	 
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro ups.com> 
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	 
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	
	<4A80472E.4090108@stoneleaf.us> 
	
	
Message-ID: <63f2b657-c646-4a69-9a05-1da5975bb6d2@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 11, 1:47?am, Steven D'Aprano
 wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:05:00 -0400, David Lyon wrote:
> > Ignore feedback... tell people to freak off...
>
> Only useless feedback.

And who decides what is useless and what isn't Steven?. You?, alex23?,
Bruno?, Paul? Carl? Who makes these decisions and do *they* make them
without pride or prejudice? Do they approve an idea by someone they
hate because it it good, or do they toss it in the trash just to spite
them, because they have the power to do so? As we can see much
resistace exists against even the ideas of change. How will change
ever take place with such defiance!

I am sorry but i feel many here would not judge fairly based on the
merits of an idea without allowing "buddy-systems" or "pecking-orders"
to get in the way. Sad really, only Python suffers in the end.

Some say the tutorial is not meant for non-programmers, but for
programmers with no Python experience. So! How does that justify
obstruction of the tut? Why not present the same information in a way
both can easily understand? I thought Pythons original vision was to
allow easy entry into programming for anybody -- experienced or not!
Anybody remember "CP4E"?

Is this an ivory tower thing? i dunno, but it seems to be...???



From pacificik at warnell.uga.edu  Tue Aug 11 12:55:28 2009
From: pacificik at warnell.uga.edu (Krishna Pacifici)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 12:55:28 -0400
Subject: dictionary help
Message-ID: <4A816A400200008C00014A70@redhorse.forestry.uga.edu>

Wow, thanks MRAB and Simon, you guys are good.

I guess I will go ahead and ask the next question that has also stumped me for awhile now.

So basically I need to loop through the values in the new dictionary and append attributes of a class object.  Each of the values (and keys) represent a block in a grid with a specific location (e.g. 35 is the block in row 3 col 5) and each block is an object with several attributes associated with it.  I want to call that block and append two separate attributes to the dictionary within that same key.

So again it would look something like this:

block 35 has 2 attributes, say a and b, a=2, b=5 
block 37 has a=1, b=3
block 46 has a=3, b=8

the two attributes come from two different definitions within the class statement, 
def detections
...
return a

def abundance
...
return b

so I would want to append to key 36 those two attributes for each block so that the resulting dictionary item would look like this:
                         a           b   
{36:[35,37,46], [2,1,3], [5,3,8] ...}

Any help with this would be greatly appreciated.  And thank you so much for all of your help thus far, I'm still pretty new to python and am enjoying all of the flexibility associated with a scripting and programming language.

Thanks again,
Krishna

>>> Simon Forman  08/11/09 12:15 PM >>>
On Aug 11, 11:51 am, MRAB  wrote:
> Krishna Pacifici wrote:
> > Thanks for the help.
>
> > Actually this is part of a much larger project, but I have unfortunately
> > pigeon-holed myself into needing to do these things without a whole lot
> > of flexibility.
>
> > To give a specific example I have the following dictionary where I need
> > to remove values that are duplicated with other values and remove values
> > that are duplicates of the keys, but still retain it as a dictionary.  
> > Each value is itself a class with many attributes that I need to call
> > later on in the program, but I cannot have duplicates because it would
> > mess up some estimation part of my model.
>
> > d =
> > {36: [35, 37, 26, 46], 75: [74, 76, 65, 85], 21: [20, 22, 11, 31], 22:
> > [21, 23, 12, 32], 26: [25, 27, 16, 36], 30: [20, 31, 40]}
>
> > So I want a new dictionary that would get rid of the duplicate values of
> > 21, 22, 36 and 20 and give me back a dictionary that looked like this:
>
> > new_d=
> > {36: [35, 37, 26, 46], 75: [74, 76, 65, 85], 21: [20, 11, 31], 22: [23,
> > 12, 32], 26: [25, 27, 16], 30: [40]}
>
> > I understand that a dictionary may not be the best approach, but like I
> > said I have sort of pigeon-holed myself by the way that I am simulating
> > my data and the estimation model that I am using.  Any suggestions or
> > comments about the above problem would be greatly appreciated.
>
>  >>> d = {36: [35, 37, 26, 46], 75: [74, 76, 65, 85], 21: [20, 22, 11,
> 31], 22: [21, 23, 12, 32], 26: [25, 27, 16, 36], 30: [20, 31, 40]}
>  >>> new_d = {}
>  >>> seen = set(d.keys())
>  >>> for k, v in d.items():
> ...     new_d[k] = [x for x in v if x not in seen]
> ...     seen |= set(new_d[k])
> ...
>  >>> new_d
> {36: [35, 37, 46], 75: [74, 76, 65, 85], 21: [20, 11, 31], 22: [23, 12,
> 32], 26: [25, 27, 16], 30: [40]}

Ha ha, MRAB beat me to it:

d = {
    36: [35, 37, 26, 46],
    75: [74, 76, 65, 85],
    21: [20, 22, 11, 31],
    22: [21, 23, 12, 32],
    26: [25, 27, 16, 36],
    30: [20, 31, 40],
    }


new_d = { # Given, and apparently incorrect.
    36: [35, 37, 26, 46], # 26 is a key and should be gone.
    75: [74, 76, 65, 85],
    21: [20, 11, 31],
    22: [23, 12, 32],
    26: [25, 27, 16],
    30: [40],
    }


expected = {
    36: [35, 37, 46],
    75: [74, 76, 65, 85],
    21: [20, 11, 31],
    22: [23, 12, 32],
    26: [25, 27, 16],
    30: [40],
    }


def removeDuplicates(D):
    '''
    Remove values that are duplicated with other values
    and remove values that are duplicates of the keys.

    Assumes that values in the lists are already unique within
    each list.  I.e. duplicates are only in the keys or in other
    lists.

    This function works "in place" on D, so it doesn't return
    anything.  Caller must keep a reference to D.
    '''

    seen = set(D) # Get a set of the keys.

    for key, values_list in D.iteritems():

        # Filter out values that have already been seen.
        filtered_values = [
            value
            for value in values_list
            if not value in seen
            ]

        # Remember newly seen values.
        seen.update(filtered_values)

        D[key] = filtered_values


## Example:
##
##    >>> d == expected
##    False
##    >>> removeDuplicates(d)
##    >>> d == expected
##    True
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

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From liukis at usc.edu  Tue Aug 11 13:29:42 2009
From: liukis at usc.edu (Maria Liukis)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:29:42 -0700
Subject: Any built-in function for smallest positive floating point number?
Message-ID: 

Hello everybody,

Is somebody aware of built-in Python's function that would return a  
value for smallest positive double precision floating point number  
(analogous to 'realmin' in Matlab). Python has built-in sys.maxint  
but I could not find anything for float.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Masha
--------------------
liukis at usc.edu



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From dotancohen at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 13:33:39 2009
From: dotancohen at gmail.com (Dotan Cohen)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 20:33:39 +0300
Subject: Scraping Wikipedia with Python
Message-ID: <880dece00908111033n2a9f8e5et937d1f4bbcb2df89@mail.gmail.com>

I plan on making a geography-learning Anki [1] deck, and Wikipedia has
the information that I need in nicely formatted tables on the side of
each country's page. Has someone already invented a wheel to parse and
store that data (scrape)? It is probably not difficult to code, and
within the Wikipedia license, but if that wheel has already been
invented then I don't want to redo it. I tried googling for a
Wikipedia-specific solution but found none, is there a general purpose
solution that I could use?

Note that I am a regular Wikipedia contributor and plan on staying
within the realm of Wikipedia's rules.


[1] http://ichi2.net/anki/

-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il


From Francis.Brissette at autodesk.com  Tue Aug 11 13:39:49 2009
From: Francis.Brissette at autodesk.com (Francis Brissette)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:39:49 -0700
Subject: Unsigned char array to an unsigned longlong array
Message-ID: 

Hello,

I'm using Python 2.6.2.
Is there a way to have an Array of unsigned longlong (C Type: unsigned longlong, Minimum size if bytes: 8) ?
I found a page on the internet (http://mail.python.org/pipermail/patches/2005-April/017430.html), but I'm not quite sure if it is available.


What I want to do is to store an array of bytes in an array of longlongs.
To workaround this issue, I have tried to use the double array (TypeCode 'd'), since the size in bytes is the same (8 for instance).
But it gives me strange result. Please look at the example:

import array
myByteArray = array.array('B', [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8])
>> myByteArray = array('B', [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8])

myLongArray = array.array('L', myByteArray.tostring() )
myLongArray = array('L', [67305985L, 134678021L])

myDoubleArray = array.array('d', myByteArray.tostring() )
myDoubleArray = array('d', [5.447603722011605e-270])

If we convert the byte array to an hex form, we will get for the long array: [04030201, 08070605].
If we convert this hex array to decimal, we then get the Long Array: [67305985, 134678021].

Now, if we do the same exercise for the double array, the hex form will look like: [0807060504030201].
And the decimal value would be: [5.784376957523072e+17].

Where does the 5.447603722011605e-270 value comes from ?


Thanks for your help,
Francis
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From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Aug 11 13:41:48 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 18:41:48 +0100
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
In-Reply-To: <63f2b657-c646-4a69-9a05-1da5975bb6d2@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References:  
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>		<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>	
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro
	ups.com>
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>	
		<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>		<4A80472E.4090108@stoneleaf.us>
		
	<63f2b657-c646-4a69-9a05-1da5975bb6d2@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

r wrote:
> On Aug 11, 1:47 am, Steven D'Aprano
>  wrote:
>> On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:05:00 -0400, David Lyon wrote:
>>> Ignore feedback... tell people to freak off...
>> Only useless feedback.
> 
[snip]
> 
> I am sorry but i feel many here would not judge fairly based on the
> merits of an idea without allowing "buddy-systems" or "pecking-orders"
> to get in the way. Sad really, only Python suffers in the end.
I disagree with these comments.  I do not believe that Python has a 
buddy system or a pecking order getting in the way of anything.  As you 
are making thsse accusations, either provide hard evidence that can 
persuade me that your perspective on this is correct or shut up.
> 
[snip]
> 

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From nagle at animats.com  Tue Aug 11 13:48:17 2009
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:48:17 -0700
Subject: Is "feedparser" deprecated?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4a7c7a8d$0$1661$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	
Message-ID: <4a81adee$0$1654$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

Gabriel Genellina wrote:
> En Fri, 07 Aug 2009 16:07:48 -0300, John Nagle 
> escribi?:
> 
>>    Feedparser requires SGMLlib, which has been removed from Python 3.0.
>> Feedparser hasn't been updated since 2007. Does this mean Feedparser
>> is dead?
> 
> Since we have generic and easy of use XML parsers like ElementTree and
> lxml,  specialized rss parsers like feedparser are not so much required.
> I've used ElementTree when I had to parse an rss feed in the past (not so
> many times).

    Take a look at what Feedparser has to do to deal with real-world RSS
feeds.  There are several hundred lines of code just to figure out the
source encoding.  There's gzip support, Atom support, base 64 encoding
support... Then there's the RSS polling protocol, which also requires
some support.  A basic XML parser only does part of the job.

					John Nagle


From liukis at usc.edu  Tue Aug 11 13:48:55 2009
From: liukis at usc.edu (Maria Liukis)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:48:55 -0700
Subject: Any built-in function for smallest positive floating point number?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <3E85703A-28AF-4626-8BFB-786C85810BCD@usc.edu>

A bit more of googling gave me an answer:

 >>> import numpy as np
 >>> np.finfo(np.double).tiny
array(2.2250738585072014e-308)
 >>>

Thanks,
Masha
--------------------
liukis at usc.edu



On Aug 11, 2009, at 10:29 AM, Maria Liukis wrote:

> Hello everybody,
>
> Is somebody aware of built-in Python's function that would return a  
> value for smallest positive double precision floating point number  
> (analogous to 'realmin' in Matlab). Python has built-in sys.maxint  
> but I could not find anything for float.
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Masha
> --------------------
> liukis at usc.edu
>
>
>
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

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From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Tue Aug 11 13:53:16 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 11 Aug 2009 17:53:16 GMT
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 07:57:28 -0700, rurpy wrote:

> On 08/11/2009 01:47 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
>> r  gmail.com>  writes:
>>> On Aug 9, 11:02 pm, David Lyon  wrote:
>>>> Since you're talking about documentation, which is a part of python,
>>>> don't you think you should be discussing it on python-dev ?
>>> Yea, them's be a friendly bunch to noob ideas ;). Hey i got a better
>>> idea, lets go to the IRS and see if we can persuade them to stop
>>> taxing us...
>>
>> You know, the most interesting thing in this thread is certainly its
>> title : ? Social problems of Python doc ?
>>
>> Yes, the little social problem here should be clear: if you have
>> complaints to voice or improvements to suggest to the Python docs, you
>> should do so on the issue tracker (*). For most topics, this is the
>> only reasonable way to signal problems to the Python developers
>> community, and so it is in most free software / open source projects.
> 
> "the *only* reasonable way"?  That's clearly wrong (unless you want to
> wiggle in the room provided by "reasonable" or "most"). There is
> discussion on the dev list, there is discussion here.

Discussion here is spitting into the wind. The noise-to-signal ratio is 
high enough that the people who can fix an issue aren't likely to see it 
here. Unless somebody raises a report in the bug tracker, it will go 
nowhere, fast.

The same happens for issues on the dev list: I can't count how many times 
people there have said "put it in the bug tracker, or it will be 
forgotten".


> The issue tracker is fine for many things, but the process it provides
> is equivalent to peep-hole optimization.  How does one submit a tracker
> issue for something like the overall organization of the docs (for
> example, the mis-placement of things like data- types in the library
> manual rather than the language manual)?

The same way you would submit a tracker issue for anything.

"Documentation bug: Data types are misplaced in the library manual 
instead of the language manual.

Suggested alternative: move page docs.python.org/xyz.html to abc.html"



> The big problem with the docs is poor writing (this includes not using
> examples when they can help explain something more clearly than verbiage
> alone).

There's a difference between insufficiently good writing and poor 
writing: think of grading the docs, where 100 is "perfect in every way" 
and -100 is "perfectly awful in every possible way". (It's not a linear 
scale.) A score of 0 is "mediocre, just barely acceptable". Poor writing 
has a negative score. In my opinion, Python's docs are perhaps a 40 or 
50, significantly better than most technical docs I've seen.


[...]
>  I can rewrite some section so it sounds good to me, but likely it will
> be just as bad (perhaps in different ways) that what is there.

Bug reports are valuable even if you don't have the skills to provide a 
patch. Bug reports with patches are even more valuable, but that doesn't 
mean that the failure to provide a patch *necessarily* dooms your report 
to oblivion.


> The post that started this thread proposed something like paying
> professional writers to improve the docs.  This may or may not be a
> practical suggestion.  But the immediate response it engendered was an
> auto-immune-like group response: the docs are great already, don't
> complain, fix them yourself, yada, yada; the same response that any
> criticism of free software produces.

I haven't seen any such knee-jerk responses. What I've seen is a set of 
sensible, *practical* advice:

- complaining on its own, especially here, is pointless;

- Python is a community effort, if you see something that needs fixing, 
do something about it;

- many of us DON'T want arbitrary people "correcting" the official docs 
without oversight, and believe that would be a disaster (arbitrary people 
aren't give check-in privileges to add code to Python's standard library, 
nor should they be given check-in privileges to add docs);

- if people are keen on a Python wiki, then by all means publish one, 
just don't expect the Python dev team to build and manage it for you;

- bug reports and patches to the docs are ALWAYS welcome, even if they 
are rejected;

- if you don't have the skills to fix a bug (including doc bugs), an 
alternative is to pay somebody else to do so instead.

 
> It's really too bad the the python community can't seriously discuss
> ways to improves the docs.  There are other possibilities for instance
> the Fedora Docs project (can't say I'm impressed by what they've
> produced but that doesn't mean their model is useless).  There is a need
> for an approval process managed by someone who actually understands what
> good technical writing is.  And perhaps editors who can polish or work
> with programmers who provide the raw technical description of some
> module.

Yes, you're correct. 

[sarcasm] Now that we've agreed on what needs to be done, the problem is 
solved!!! [end sarcasm]



> Some kind of higher level more global process is the only way I can see
> that the docs will be improved to any sort or professional standard.  I
> don't see how issues like this will be addressed by submitting tracker
> items.

You want community input into the docs, but you're not willing to give 
that input except to bitch and moan and sook that the tracker is no good.

Even if the PSF had a full-time team of professional documentation 
writers and editors, guess what, you would STILL need to submit issues to 
the bug tracker, because otherwise THEY WON'T BE TRACKED.


> Personally, I have given up on this issue.  The social factors involved
> really pretty much determine that the Python docs will never reach a
> very high quality -- that's just the way it is and I've come to accept
> that.

Ultimately it boils down to two factors:

Money.

Effort.

If you won't put in the effort, and you won't put in the money, then it 
won't happen. Moaning that other people aren't putting in the money to 
hire team of professional writers isn't productive, and moaning that 
other people aren't putting in the effort to improve the docs isn't 
either.



-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Tue Aug 11 14:00:08 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 11 Aug 2009 18:00:08 GMT
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<3611ca55-79a6-4336-9041-07d0893789f7@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
	<0447e8a2-508d-45b2-8d15-da0cc2a56b5f@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <0291a21a$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 15:50:01 +0200, Piet van Oostrum wrote:

>>>>>> Steven D'Aprano  (SD) wrote:
> 
>>SD> If I'm reading this page correctly, Python does behave as C++ does.
>>Or at SD> least as Larch/C++ does:
> 
>>SD> http://www.cs.ucf.edu/~leavens/larchc++manual/lcpp_47.html
> 
> They call them `non-standard escape sequences' for a reason: that they
> are not in standard C++.
> 
> test.cpp:
> char* temp = "abc\yz";
> 
> TEMP> g++ -c test.cpp
> test.cpp:1:1: warning: unknown escape sequence '\y'


Isn't that a warning, not a fatal error? So what does temp contain?



-- 
Steven


From squishywaffle at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 14:14:14 2009
From: squishywaffle at gmail.com (squishywaffle at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 11:14:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Networked Broadcast Messaging
Message-ID: <37ea826b-708d-48f4-a64a-42f58fec5325@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

I'm not exactly sure what the term for this would be, but I was
wondering if there were any Python packages that supported some kind
of ad-hoc message broadcasting. What I'd like to do is something like
this:

* On a number of workhorse machines, a process listens for network
messages from our broadcast service. It subscribes to a certain sub-
set of them and will only respond to the messaging events that it is
subscribed to.
* Any machine can broadcast a message out to the network of machines
without specifying an IP address.
* Machines can come and go. Since messages are not directly sent to a
specific IP address from our Python script, the messages are simply
broadcasted to those who are there to listen. If nobody is subscribed
to the message type being sent, nothing happens.

I know XML-RPC and other friends are an option, but I'm looking for
something that doesn't require managing a set of IP addresses or
hostnames. I'm not sure what to Google for such a package/module, any
direction would be greatly appreciated.


From pacificik at warnell.uga.edu  Tue Aug 11 14:17:15 2009
From: pacificik at warnell.uga.edu (Krishna Pacifici)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:17:15 -0400
Subject: looping through values in a dictionary and appending to a
	 list
Message-ID: <4A817D6B0200008C00014A9B@redhorse.forestry.uga.edu>

Nevermind,
got it.

Sorry.

>>> Krishna Pacifici 08/11/09 2:12 PM >>>
Hi,
I want to append the values of a dictionary to a list.  I have a dictionary sec_dict_clean and I want to append the values to a list, but am having a hard time looping through the values in the dictionary.

I have tried something like this:
lista=[]
for i in sec_dict_clean.values():
    for j in sec_dict_clean.values()[i]:
        lista.append(sec_dict_clean.values()[i])

But I keep on getting an error:
TypeError: list indices must be integers

Any ideas on how to loop through values in a dictionary?

Thanks,
Krishna

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From nagle at animats.com  Tue Aug 11 14:26:44 2009
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 11:26:44 -0700
Subject: Scraping Wikipedia with Python
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4a81b6f0$0$1590$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

Dotan Cohen wrote:
> I plan on making a geography-learning Anki [1] deck, and Wikipedia has
> the information that I need in nicely formatted tables on the side of
> each country's page. Has someone already invented a wheel to parse and
> store that data (scrape)? 

     Wikipedia has an API for computer access.  See

	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API

				John Nagle


From dotancohen at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 14:29:40 2009
From: dotancohen at gmail.com (Dotan Cohen)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:29:40 +0300
Subject: Scraping Wikipedia with Python
In-Reply-To: <4a81b6f0$0$1590$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
References: 
	<4a81b6f0$0$1590$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <880dece00908111129k525a0614td4c59a7a9371a7ba@mail.gmail.com>

> ? ?Wikipedia has an API for computer access. ?See
>
> ? ? ? ?http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API
>

Yes, I am aware of this as well. Does anyone know of a python class
for easily interacting with it, or do I need to roll my own.

-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il


From greg.kujawa at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 14:34:54 2009
From: greg.kujawa at gmail.com (gregarican)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 11:34:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Networked Broadcast Messaging
References: <37ea826b-708d-48f4-a64a-42f58fec5325@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <889a2a1d-e791-479e-8e41-4387e1b258fd@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 11, 2:14?pm, "squishywaf... at gmail.com"
 wrote:
> I'm not exactly sure what the term for this would be, but I was
> wondering if there were any Python packages that supported some kind
> of ad-hoc message broadcasting. What I'd like to do is something like
> this:
>
> * On a number of workhorse machines, a process listens for network
> messages from our broadcast service. It subscribes to a certain sub-
> set of them and will only respond to the messaging events that it is
> subscribed to.
> * Any machine can broadcast a message out to the network of machines
> without specifying an IP address.
> * Machines can come and go. Since messages are not directly sent to a
> specific IP address from our Python script, the messages are simply
> broadcasted to those who are there to listen. If nobody is subscribed
> to the message type being sent, nothing happens.
>
> I know XML-RPC and other friends are an option, but I'm looking for
> something that doesn't require managing a set of IP addresses or
> hostnames. I'm not sure what to Google for such a package/module, any
> direction would be greatly appreciated.

Offhand I'd suggest binding a specific UDP port on the listening
workstations. Then the broadcasting workstation(s) could just pull a
standard list of IP's based on its own subnet. Then there'd be no hard-
coded machine names or IP addresses to manage. Just send the message
to all hosts on the same subnet as the broadcaster(s). Plus the UDP
connection would be stateless and not care if the receivers actually
got the message or not...


From kushal.kumaran+python at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 14:39:30 2009
From: kushal.kumaran+python at gmail.com (Kushal Kumaran)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 00:09:30 +0530
Subject: better way?
In-Reply-To: <9899e909-509e-47d4-a8e5-f9d70e0b8827@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <9899e909-509e-47d4-a8e5-f9d70e0b8827@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1e364c4e0908111139r5c4536d6s90be6cf5aef2d26a@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 10:03 PM, someone wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'd like to make insert into db if record not exist otherwise update.
> to save typing list of columns in both statements I do following
>
> 
>
>
> is there better or more readable way to do it?
>

Well, mysql, in particular, offers an "on duplicate key update" clause
that you can take a look at.  Don't know about about other databases.

-- 
kushal


From http  Tue Aug 11 14:40:46 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 11 Aug 2009 11:40:46 -0700
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <7xk51anqhd.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Steven D'Aprano  writes:
> - if people are keen on a Python wiki, then by all means publish one, 
> just don't expect the Python dev team to build and manage it for you;

There are already some nice ones at:

   http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Python


From python at rcn.com  Tue Aug 11 14:43:29 2009
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 11:43:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References:   
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	 
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro ups.com> 
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	 
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	
	 
	<081115fd-8014-4e6b-8d7b-76d6fcf6a59d@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<7xr5vj9m0g.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <2fd432c7-00e2-4bb6-9192-e9f7aa96c4d7@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

[Paul Rubin]
> I think the Python tutorial is aimed at users who are newbies to
> Python but not newbies to programming. ?Writing a tutorial for total
> newbies is a completely different problem, that would result in a much
> different document that's less useful to the existing tutorial's
> intended audience.

There is more than one right answer to "what is the best tutorial
for different people".  The www.python.org website lists a number
of tutorials.  Here is the page specifically marked for those
who are new to programming:

 http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide


Raymond





From petshmidt at googlemail.com  Tue Aug 11 14:45:50 2009
From: petshmidt at googlemail.com (Pet)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 11:45:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: better way?
References: <9899e909-509e-47d4-a8e5-f9d70e0b8827@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <78a18b9b-f29e-432f-9fe4-8c250cb08edb@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On 11 Aug., 20:39, Kushal Kumaran 
wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 10:03 PM, someone wrote:
> > Hello,
>
> > I'd like to make insert into db if record not exist otherwise update.
> > to save typing list of columns in both statements I do following
>
> > 
>
> > is there better or more readable way to do it?
>
> Well, mysql, in particular, offers an "on duplicate key update" clause
> that you can take a look at. ?Don't know about about other databases.
>
> --
> kushal

Oh, forgotten to mention. It's PostGres


From http  Tue Aug 11 14:52:46 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 11 Aug 2009 11:52:46 -0700
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References:  
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro
	ups.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	
	<4A80472E.4090108@stoneleaf.us>
	
	
	<63f2b657-c646-4a69-9a05-1da5975bb6d2@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xfxbynpxd.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

r  writes:
> Some say the tutorial is not meant for non-programmers, but for
> programmers with no Python experience. So! How does that justify
> obstruction of the tut? Why not present the same information in a way
> both can easily understand? 

I agree that a tutorial for non-programmers would be useful, but it's
better to have it as a separate document.  The existing tutorial helps
experienced programmers get started with Python very quickly, by
checking off familiar features from other languages and saying how
Python implements them.  Someone familiar with (say) Java or C++ can
read it in a few minutes and start contributing to a Python project.
Pitching it to complete beginners would require covering a lot of
ground that is already well known to someone who programs in other
languages, and would slow it down too much. 


From dullrich at sprynet.com  Tue Aug 11 14:53:03 2009
From: dullrich at sprynet.com (David C Ullrich)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:53:03 -0500
Subject: Scraping Wikipedia with Python
References: 
	<4a81b6f0$0$1590$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	
Message-ID: <6YidncRAiJ6SIxzXRVn_vwA@giganews.com>

On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:29:40 +0300, Dotan Cohen wrote:

>> ? ?Wikipedia has an API for computer access. ?See
>>
>> ? ? ? ?http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API
>>
>>
> Yes, I am aware of this as well. Does anyone know of a python class for
> easily interacting with it, or do I need to roll my own.

Try reading a little there! Starting there I went to

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Creating_a_bot

where I found a section on existing bots, comments on how the "scraping"
is not what you want, and even a Python section with a link to something 
labelled  PyWikipediaBot...






From http  Tue Aug 11 14:54:16 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 11 Aug 2009 11:54:16 -0700
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References:  
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro
	ups.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<081115fd-8014-4e6b-8d7b-76d6fcf6a59d@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<7xr5vj9m0g.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<2fd432c7-00e2-4bb6-9192-e9f7aa96c4d7@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xab266v1j.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Raymond Hettinger  writes:
> Here is the page specifically marked for those who are new to programming:
>  http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide

Oh cool, I didn't know about that one.


From kushal.kumaran+python at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 15:00:37 2009
From: kushal.kumaran+python at gmail.com (Kushal Kumaran)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 00:30:37 +0530
Subject: Networked Broadcast Messaging
In-Reply-To: <889a2a1d-e791-479e-8e41-4387e1b258fd@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <37ea826b-708d-48f4-a64a-42f58fec5325@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<889a2a1d-e791-479e-8e41-4387e1b258fd@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1e364c4e0908111200j5d83b5d4o6ab950b82265189c@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 12:04 AM, gregarican wrote:
> On Aug 11, 2:14?pm, "squishywaf... at gmail.com"
>  wrote:
>> I'm not exactly sure what the term for this would be, but I was
>> wondering if there were any Python packages that supported some kind
>> of ad-hoc message broadcasting. What I'd like to do is something like
>> this:
>>
>> * On a number of workhorse machines, a process listens for network
>> messages from our broadcast service. It subscribes to a certain sub-
>> set of them and will only respond to the messaging events that it is
>> subscribed to.
>> * Any machine can broadcast a message out to the network of machines
>> without specifying an IP address.
>> * Machines can come and go. Since messages are not directly sent to a
>> specific IP address from our Python script, the messages are simply
>> broadcasted to those who are there to listen. If nobody is subscribed
>> to the message type being sent, nothing happens.
>>
>> I know XML-RPC and other friends are an option, but I'm looking for
>> something that doesn't require managing a set of IP addresses or
>> hostnames. I'm not sure what to Google for such a package/module, any
>> direction would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Offhand I'd suggest binding a specific UDP port on the listening
> workstations. Then the broadcasting workstation(s) could just pull a
> standard list of IP's based on its own subnet. Then there'd be no hard-
> coded machine names or IP addresses to manage. Just send the message
> to all hosts on the same subnet as the broadcaster(s). Plus the UDP
> connection would be stateless and not care if the receivers actually
> got the message or not...

You could use the socket module to broadcast.  Using INADDR_BROADCAST
as the destination should do it.  I fail to recollect whether that
will need root privileges...

-- 
kushal


From maximilianbianco at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 15:01:00 2009
From: maximilianbianco at gmail.com (max bianco)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 15:01:00 -0400
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
In-Reply-To: <0006817d$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<7xk51fgazf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
	
	
	
	<0006817d$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 12:25 AM, Steven
D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 13:35:26 -0700, Kee Nethery wrote:
>
>
>> > Why exactly is posting an open comment on a bug tracker somehow
>> > inferior to posting an open comment on a wiki?
>>
>> It's a good question and deserves a good answer.
>>
>> * Fewer Steps
>> * Immediate
>> * Does not need to be formally reviewed
>> * Easier to search
>
> The last one is actually wrong, because the Python bug tracker is indexed
> by Google.
>
> As for the rest, you're right that the current bug-tracker puts up
> barriers to people submitting comments and bugs. That's actually a good
> thing. The only thing worse than not enough information is too much
> information, and the current situation does a good job of discouraging
> the sorts of people who submit bad bug reports (e.g. duplicates of bug
> reports, bug reports for things fixed years ago, bug reports that are due
> to mistakes in their code, etc.).
>
>
>> For example
>> purposes, I'll use the following page:
>> http://docs.python.org/reference/lexical_analysis.html
>> Lets say the user is in section 2.1.3 Comments
>
> Disclaimer: python.org is down at the moment, so I can't check that page
> to see precisely what you're talking about.
>
>
>> Here's the scenario: The user wanted to include "#" in one of their
>> strings and the IDE kept interpreting it as a comment. But they really
>> need to use that character in the string. Eventually they find out that
>> they can escape the character in their string so that Python stops
>> thinking it is the beginning of a comment.
>
> Er, that would be a bug in the IDE, surely? Inside strings, # is an
> ordinary character with no special meaning.
>
>
>>>> s = "this is a string with an unescaped # in it"
>>>> s
> 'this is a string with an unescaped # in it'
>
>
> The Python docs are supposed to be about Python the language, not work-
> arounds for IDE bugs.
>
>
> [...]
>> Lets assume that Python experts all agree that
>> the docs should get updated with this gotcha (which as a newbie, they
>> are not sure that is a valid assumption and would probably just halt
>> in their quest to get the docs updated).
>
> Good.
>
> As a newbie, you SHOULD assume that anything you think is a bug is
> probably a bug in YOUR code, not Python, and the same goes for
> documentation bugs. If you don't understand something in the docs,
> chances are that it's a problem with you, not the docs. Your first port
> of call should be the tutor list, or here, and not to "fix" the docs by
> putting in noise that just gets in the way of the intended audience,
> namely experienced developers.
>
I assume I am misunderstanding you here and you meant something else?
Python is paraded as a good language for beginners. Is this a false
statement or a secondary objective? Or are the docs only meant for
experienced developers? That just doesn't sound right.


From invalid at invalid  Tue Aug 11 15:01:35 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:01:35 -0500
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References:  
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro ups.com>
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	
	<4A80472E.4090108@stoneleaf.us>
	
	
	<63f2b657-c646-4a69-9a05-1da5975bb6d2@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<7xfxbynpxd.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-11, Paul Rubin  wrote:
> r  writes:
>> Some say the tutorial is not meant for non-programmers, but for
>> programmers with no Python experience. So! How does that justify
>> obstruction of the tut? Why not present the same information in a way
>> both can easily understand? 
>
> I agree that a tutorial for non-programmers would be useful, but it's
> better to have it as a separate document.

There are plenty of docs aimed at non-programmers.  I've heard
this one recommended many times:

http://www.greenteapress.com/thinkpython/

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Am I having fun yet?
                                  at               
                               visi.com            


From maximilianbianco at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 15:03:09 2009
From: maximilianbianco at gmail.com (max bianco)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 15:03:09 -0400
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
In-Reply-To: 
References:  
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 2:36 PM, Kee Nethery wrote:
> As someone trying to learn the language I want to say that the tone on this
> list towards people who are trying to learn Python ?feels like it has become
> anti-newbies.
>
> Learning a new language is difficult enough without seeing other newbies
> getting shamed for not knowing everything there is to know about Python
> before asking their questions.

Well I have to say your right about the tone but using google before
you ask is not an unreasonable expectation. I have of course broken
this golden rule myself on mailing lists myself , however a response
like use google is totally acceptable to me.


From squishywaffle at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 15:06:41 2009
From: squishywaffle at gmail.com (Greg Taylor)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 12:06:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Networked Broadcast Messaging
References: <37ea826b-708d-48f4-a64a-42f58fec5325@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<889a2a1d-e791-479e-8e41-4387e1b258fd@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: <4dc5c63e-55d6-4758-b2e6-f405571347df@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 11, 3:00?pm, Kushal Kumaran 
wrote:
> You could use the socket module to broadcast. ?Using INADDR_BROADCAST
> as the destination should do it. ?I fail to recollect whether that
> will need root privileges...

Awesome, I think this is exactly what I'm looking for. Much
appreciated!

Greg


From invalid at invalid  Tue Aug 11 15:11:37 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:11:37 -0500
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<7xk51fgazf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
	
	
	
	<0006817d$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-11, max bianco  wrote:

> I assume I am misunderstanding you here and you meant something else?
> Python is paraded as a good language for beginners.

I believe it is a good language for beginners.

> Is this a false statement or a secondary objective?

Objective of what?

> Or are the docs only meant for experienced developers?

Some are, some aren't.  The "standard" docs (most of the docs
you can reach directly from http://www.python.org/doc/ --
including the tutorial) aren't intended to teach somebody how
to program and assume the reader has a basic grounding in
programming and language theory.

There are plenty of books and tutorials that are aimed at
teaching programming and Python at the same time.  You can find
some of via the links listed under "Additional documentation"
at http://www.python.org/doc/ -- particularly here:

 http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide/NonProgrammers

> That just doesn't sound right.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! My mind is making
                                  at               ashtrays in Dayton ...
                               visi.com            


From dotancohen at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 15:14:07 2009
From: dotancohen at gmail.com (Dotan Cohen)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:14:07 +0300
Subject: Scraping Wikipedia with Python
In-Reply-To: <6YidncRAiJ6SIxzXRVn_vwA@giganews.com>
References: 
	<4a81b6f0$0$1590$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	
	<6YidncRAiJ6SIxzXRVn_vwA@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <880dece00908111214y5def00afqe1e8849edd73d7e7@mail.gmail.com>

> Try reading a little there! Starting there I went to
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Creating_a_bot
>
> where I found a section on existing bots, comments on how the "scraping"
> is not what you want, and even a Python section with a link to something
> labelled ?PyWikipediaBot...
>

Thanks. I read the first bit of that page, but did not finish it.
Grepping it for Python led to to what I need.

Sorry for the noise.


-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il


From dmitrey.kroshko at scipy.org  Tue Aug 11 15:15:13 2009
From: dmitrey.kroshko at scipy.org (dmitrey)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 12:15:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: for key, value in dict.() - how to get? (which func)
Message-ID: 

hi all,
which method should I use to get iterator over (key, value) pairs for
Python dict, Python v 2.6 and above?

Of course I could use

for key in myDict.keys():
    value = myDict.values()
    # do something with the pair key, value

but searching each time for the value take some cputime that is
serious for the task involved

IIRC in python 2.5 I have something like keyvalues(), but I don't see
something like that in current dir(myDict).

Thank you in advance, D.


From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 15:23:46 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 12:23:46 -0700
Subject: better way?
In-Reply-To: <78a18b9b-f29e-432f-9fe4-8c250cb08edb@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <9899e909-509e-47d4-a8e5-f9d70e0b8827@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<78a18b9b-f29e-432f-9fe4-8c250cb08edb@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

IIRC Postgres has had ON DUPLICATE KEY UPDATE functionality longer than  
MySQL...

On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 11:45:50 -0700, Pet  wrote:

> On 11 Aug., 20:39, Kushal Kumaran 
> wrote:
>> On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 10:03 PM, someone  
>> wrote:
>> > Hello,
>>
>> > I'd like to make insert into db if record not exist otherwise update.
>> > to save typing list of columns in both statements I do following
>>
>> > 
>>
>> > is there better or more readable way to do it?
>>
>> Well, mysql, in particular, offers an "on duplicate key update" clause
>> that you can take a look at. ?Don't know about about other databases.
>>
>> --
>> kushal
>
> Oh, forgotten to mention. It's PostGres



-- 
Rami Chowdhury
"Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --  
Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)


From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 15:26:05 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 12:26:05 -0700
Subject: for key, value in dict.() - how to get? (which func)
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Hi Dmitrey,

I think what you're looking for is myDict.items(), or myDict.iteritems().

Cheers,
Rami

On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 12:15:13 -0700, dmitrey   
wrote:

> hi all,
> which method should I use to get iterator over (key, value) pairs for
> Python dict, Python v 2.6 and above?
>
> Of course I could use
>
> for key in myDict.keys():
>     value = myDict.values()
>     # do something with the pair key, value
>
> but searching each time for the value take some cputime that is
> serious for the task involved
>
> IIRC in python 2.5 I have something like keyvalues(), but I don't see
> something like that in current dir(myDict).
>
> Thank you in advance, D.



-- 
Rami Chowdhury
"Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --  
Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Tue Aug 11 15:30:00 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 12:30:00 -0700
Subject: Programming by Contract
In-Reply-To: <4A7A15CD.9090306@stoneleaf.us>
References: <4A7A15CD.9090306@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <4A81C6B8.7010605@stoneleaf.us>

Ethan Furman wrote:
> Greetings!
> 
> I have seen posts about the assert statement and PbC (or maybe it was 
> DbC), and I just took a very brief look at pycontract 
> (http://www.wayforward.net/pycontract/) and now I have at least one 
> question:  Is this basically another way of thinking about unit testing, 
> or is the idea of PbC more along the lines of *always* checking the 
> input/output of functions to ensure they are correct?  (*Contstant 
> vigilance!* as Prof Moody would say ;)
> 
> I know asserts can be turned off, so they obviously won't work for the 
> latter case, and having seen the sample of pycontract it seems it only 
> does its thing during debugging.
> 
> So is Design (Programming) by Contract a fancy way of saying "Document 
> your inputs/outputs!" or is there more to it?
> 
> ~Ethan~

Hmmm...

Well, from the (apparently) complete lack of interest, I shall take away 
the (better?) documentation ideas and unit testing ideas, and not worry 
about the rest.  :)

~Ethan~


From dmitrey.kroshko at scipy.org  Tue Aug 11 15:31:27 2009
From: dmitrey.kroshko at scipy.org (dmitrey)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 12:31:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: for key, value in dict.() - how to get? (which func)
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

Yes, thank you, items() is the correct approach, on the other hand I
have already get rid of the cycle.
Regards, D.

On Aug 11, 10:26?pm, "Rami Chowdhury" 
wrote:
> Hi Dmitrey,
>
> I think what you're looking for is myDict.items(), or myDict.iteritems().
>
> Cheers,
> Rami
>
> On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 12:15:13 -0700, dmitrey  ?
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > hi all,
> > which method should I use to get iterator over (key, value) pairs for
> > Python dict, Python v 2.6 and above?
>
> > Of course I could use
>
> > for key in myDict.keys():
> > ? ? value = myDict.values()
> > ? ? # do something with the pair key, value
>
> > but searching each time for the value take some cputime that is
> > serious for the task involved
>
> > IIRC in python 2.5 I have something like keyvalues(), but I don't see
> > something like that in current dir(myDict).
>
> > Thank you in advance, D.
>
> --
> Rami Chowdhury
> "Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" -- ?
> Hanlon's Razor
> 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)



From Brian.Mingus at colorado.edu  Tue Aug 11 15:39:50 2009
From: Brian.Mingus at colorado.edu (Brian)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:39:50 -0600
Subject: Scraping Wikipedia with Python
In-Reply-To: <880dece00908111129k525a0614td4c59a7a9371a7ba@mail.gmail.com>
References:  
	<4a81b6f0$0$1590$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<880dece00908111129k525a0614td4c59a7a9371a7ba@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9839a05c0908111239w64e507beud9492d58dee8f0a5@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 12:29 PM, Dotan Cohen  wrote:

> >    Wikipedia has an API for computer access.  See
> >
> >        http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API
> >
>
> Yes, I am aware of this as well. Does anyone know of a python class
> for easily interacting with it, or do I need to roll my own.
>
> --
> Dotan Cohen
>

https://mwclient.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/mwclient/trunk/mwclient/
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From petshmidt at googlemail.com  Tue Aug 11 15:40:22 2009
From: petshmidt at googlemail.com (Pet)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 12:40:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: better way?
References: <9899e909-509e-47d4-a8e5-f9d70e0b8827@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<78a18b9b-f29e-432f-9fe4-8c250cb08edb@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <7b9a2a26-3b6a-48b9-bb63-da05e24c9b39@c1g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On 11 Aug., 21:23, "Rami Chowdhury"  wrote:
> IIRC Postgres has had ON DUPLICATE KEY UPDATE functionality longer than ?
> MySQL...
>

Ok, I've completely failed here :)

Thanks, man

>
>
>
>
> On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 11:45:50 -0700, Pet  wrote:
> > On 11 Aug., 20:39, Kushal Kumaran 
> > wrote:
> >> On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 10:03 PM, someone ?
> >> wrote:
> >> > Hello,
>
> >> > I'd like to make insert into db if record not exist otherwise update.
> >> > to save typing list of columns in both statements I do following
>
> >> > 
>
> >> > is there better or more readable way to do it?
>
> >> Well, mysql, in particular, offers an "on duplicate key update" clause
> >> that you can take a look at. ?Don't know about about other databases.
>
> >> --
> >> kushal
>
> > Oh, forgotten to mention. It's PostGres
>
> --
> Rami Chowdhury
> "Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" -- ?
> Hanlon's Razor
> 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)



From mgi820 at motorola.com  Tue Aug 11 15:44:49 2009
From: mgi820 at motorola.com (Gary Duzan)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 19:44:49 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: for key, value in dict.() - how to get? (which func)
References: 
Message-ID: 

In article ,
dmitrey   wrote:
>hi all,
>which method should I use to get iterator over (key, value) pairs for
>Python dict, Python v 2.6 and above?

   dict.iteritems()

>>> import sys
>>> for (key, value) in sys.modules.iteritems(): print key, value

					Gary Duzan
					Motorola H&NM




From pacificik at warnell.uga.edu  Tue Aug 11 15:47:47 2009
From: pacificik at warnell.uga.edu (Krishna Pacifici)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 15:47:47 -0400
Subject: adding multiple new values to the same key in a dictionary
Message-ID: <4A8192A30200008C00014AB9@redhorse.forestry.uga.edu>

Hi,
I want to be able to add multiple new values to a key in a dictionary.

I have tried the following:

sec_dict_clean=
{88: [87, 89, 78, 98], 58: [57, 59, 48, 68], 69: [79], 95: [94, 96, 85]}

for i in range(len(sec_dict_clean.values())):
    for j in range(len(sec_dict_clean.values()[i])):
        sec_dict_clean.setdefault(key,[]).append(blocks[sec_dict_clean.values()[i][j]].abundance)

where blocks[...].abundance gives me a single value from an object,

but this gives me the following:

sec_dict_clean=
{88: [87, 89, 78, 98], 58: [57, 59, 48, 68], 69: [79], 95: [94, 96, 85, 4, 12, 11, 6, 9, 12, 11, 7, 10, 10, 12, 9, 6, 12, 15, 9, 8, 12, 15, 12, 12]}

instead I want each abundance (starts with 4, 12...) to be associated with each of the values so that it would look like this:

sec_dict_clean=
{88: ([87, 89, 78, 98], [4,12,11,6]), 58: ([57, 59, 48, 68], [9,12,11,7]), 69: ([79], [10])...}

You can see there are several errors here (I have more things being appended than there are values in the dictionary), but I really just want to know how to add multiple values to the same key in a dictionary.

Thanks for any help,
Krishna


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From rt8396 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 15:55:27 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 12:55:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<7xk51fgazf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
	
	
	
	<0006817d$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> 
	
	
Message-ID: <6790fee9-3374-4fd4-86d5-e7bfa0439ea5@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

Ok people follow me here. Open your winders help file and click the
"Tutorial" link. What is this FLUFF doing here!?!?! Where is the damn
index? Where is the damn tutorial? I want to learn Python not read the
HISTORY OF THE WORLD.

Upon clicking the "Tutorial" link pre 2.6, a nice menu was placed
before your eyes, WHERE IS IT!?!??? Good thing i know the language or
i would have given up already!!!!


From rcdailey at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 16:08:19 2009
From: rcdailey at gmail.com (Robert Dailey)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:08:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
Message-ID: 

Hey guys. Being a C++ programmer, I like to keep variable definitions
close to the location in which they will be used. This improves
readability in many ways. However, when I have a multi-line string
definition at function level scope, things get tricky because of the
indents. In this case indents are serving two purposes: For syntax and
actual text output. The tabs for function scope should not be included
in the contents of the string. Below is the code I am trying to
improve. Notice how it looks ugly/unreadable because of the way the
string contents are shifted all the way to the left edge of the
document. This breaks the flow of scope. Would you guys solve this
problem by moving failMsg into global scope? Perhaps through some
other type of syntax?

Help is appreciated!

def RunCommand( commandList ):
   commandString =
   print( 'Running Command:',  )
   cmd = subprocess.Popen( commandList )
   returnCode = cmd.wait()
   if returnCode:
      failMsg = '''\
*************************************************
The following command returned exit code [{:#x}].
This represents failure of some form. Please review
the command output for more details on the issue.
------------
{}
*************************************************
'''
      commandString = ' '.join( commandList )
      raise CommandFailure( failMsg.format( returnCode,
commandString ) )


From matthew at woodcraft.me.uk  Tue Aug 11 16:10:03 2009
From: matthew at woodcraft.me.uk (Matthew Woodcraft)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 20:10:03 GMT
Subject: better way?
References: <9899e909-509e-47d4-a8e5-f9d70e0b8827@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<78a18b9b-f29e-432f-9fe4-8c250cb08edb@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <87skfyjen8.fsf@golux.woodcraft.me.uk>

"Rami Chowdhury"  writes:

> IIRC Postgres has had ON DUPLICATE KEY UPDATE functionality longer than
> MySQL...

PostgreSQL does not have ON DUPLICATE KEY UPDATE.

The SQL standard way to do what the OP wants is MERGE. PostgreSQL
doesn't have that either.

-M-


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Aug 11 16:12:29 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:12:29 +0100
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
In-Reply-To: <6790fee9-3374-4fd4-86d5-e7bfa0439ea5@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: 	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>	<7xk51fgazf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>					<0006817d$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
		
	<6790fee9-3374-4fd4-86d5-e7bfa0439ea5@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

r wrote:
> Ok people follow me here. Open your winders help file and click the
> "Tutorial" link. What is this FLUFF doing here!?!?! Where is the damn
> index? Where is the damn tutorial? I want to learn Python not read the
> HISTORY OF THE WORLD.
> 
> Upon clicking the "Tutorial" link pre 2.6, a nice menu was placed
> before your eyes, WHERE IS IT!?!??? Good thing i know the language or
> i would have given up already!!!!
As I keep on repeating, my version works perfectly.  Perhaps this is 
because I have a computing IQ of approximately 2**32, so realised that 
something was wrong, went here and downloaded the corrected version of 
the file, which has presumably been available for months!!!!!

http://www.python.org/download/releases/2.6.2/

And you want newbies let loose on the python docs.  As good ole Santa 
would say, ho, ho, ho!
-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From rcdailey at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 16:16:58 2009
From: rcdailey at gmail.com (Robert Dailey)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:16:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
Message-ID: <30eb6e66-1d5c-4a76-b80d-54d11bafbdb3@h31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 11, 3:08?pm, Robert Dailey  wrote:
> Hey guys. Being a C++ programmer, I like to keep variable definitions
> close to the location in which they will be used. This improves
> readability in many ways. However, when I have a multi-line string
> definition at function level scope, things get tricky because of the
> indents. In this case indents are serving two purposes: For syntax and
> actual text output. The tabs for function scope should not be included
> in the contents of the string. Below is the code I am trying to
> improve. Notice how it looks ugly/unreadable because of the way the
> string contents are shifted all the way to the left edge of the
> document. This breaks the flow of scope. Would you guys solve this
> problem by moving failMsg into global scope? Perhaps through some
> other type of syntax?
>
> Help is appreciated!
>
> def RunCommand( commandList ):
> ? ?commandString =
> ? ?print( 'Running Command:', ?)
> ? ?cmd = subprocess.Popen( commandList )
> ? ?returnCode = cmd.wait()
> ? ?if returnCode:
> ? ? ? failMsg = '''\
> *************************************************
> The following command returned exit code [{:#x}].
> This represents failure of some form. Please review
> the command output for more details on the issue.
> ------------
> {}
> *************************************************
> '''
> ? ? ? commandString = ' '.join( commandList )
> ? ? ? raise CommandFailure( failMsg.format( returnCode,
> commandString ) )

And yes, I recognize there are syntax errors. Ignore those for now.


From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 16:19:00 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:19:00 -0700
Subject: better way?
In-Reply-To: <87skfyjen8.fsf@golux.woodcraft.me.uk>
References: <9899e909-509e-47d4-a8e5-f9d70e0b8827@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<78a18b9b-f29e-432f-9fe4-8c250cb08edb@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<87skfyjen8.fsf@golux.woodcraft.me.uk>
Message-ID: 

Ah, my apologies, I must have been getting it confused with ON UPDATE  
[things]. Thanks for correcting me.

On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:10:03 -0700, Matthew Woodcraft  
 wrote:

> "Rami Chowdhury"  writes:
>
>> IIRC Postgres has had ON DUPLICATE KEY UPDATE functionality longer than
>> MySQL...
>
> PostgreSQL does not have ON DUPLICATE KEY UPDATE.
>
> The SQL standard way to do what the OP wants is MERGE. PostgreSQL
> doesn't have that either.
>
> -M-



-- 
Rami Chowdhury
"Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --  
Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)


From cmalmqui at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 16:20:35 2009
From: cmalmqui at gmail.com (cmalmqui)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:20:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ElementTree - Howto access text within XML tag element...
References: <1ad8dac1-8fff-493a-a197-d847e7b6a761@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<7ecm77F2fbf71U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 11, 9:51?am, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
> cmalmqui schrieb:
> > Hi,
>
> > I am writing on a small XML parser and are currently stuck as I am not
> > able to get the whole element name in ElementTree.
>
> > Please see the below example where "print root[0][0]" returns
> > ""
>
> > Is there a way to get hold of the "Running" string in the tag using
> > elementTree?
>
> > 
> > ? ? 
> > ? ? ? 2009-07-10T14:48:00Z
> > ? ? ? 
> > ? ? ? .........
>
> > For those of you that know how to program XML I have another
> > question:
> > I am currently "hardcoding" my XML parser using brackets, is this a
> > good approach or should I build it using a "search on tag" approach.
>
> What do you mean by that - hardcoding by brackets?
>
> Diez

Indeed, my current approach has been to hardcode the XML parser using
brackets. Is there a more elegant way?

I am parsing a garmin xml file from a handheld GPS and as you can see
in the below script, I am hardcoding each node:

import xml.etree.cElementTree as etree

def gettext(elem):
    text = elem.text or ""
    for e in elem:
        text += gettext(e)
        if e.tail:
            text += e.tail
    return text

tree = etree.parse('10_07_2009 16_48_00_history.tcx')
root = tree.getroot()

elem = root[0][0]

# ID Tag
print "type of exercise    : " + elem.get("Sport")
print "excercise starttime : " + gettext(elem[0])

# iterate over all laps
for i in range(1, len(elem)-1):

    # LAP TAG
    print "\nlap number          : " + str(i)
    print "lap start time      : " + str(elem[i].get("StartTime"))
    print "lap duration (s)    : " + gettext(elem[i][0])
    print "lap length (m)      : " + gettext(elem[i][1])
    print "max speed (km/h)    : " + gettext(elem[i][2])
    print "number of calories  : " + gettext(elem[i][3])
    print "average heartbeat   : " + gettext(elem[i][4][0])
    print "max     heartbeat   : " + gettext(elem[i][5][0])
    print "number of records   : " + str(len(elem[i][8])-1)
    for j in range(1, len(elem[i][8])-1):
        time = gettext(elem[i][8][j][0])    #time
        lat  = gettext(elem[i][8][j][1][0]) #lat
        lon  = gettext(elem[i][8][j][1][1]) #lon
        alt  = gettext(elem[i][8][j][2])    #alt
        dist = gettext(elem[i][8][j][3])    #distance from start
        bpm  = gettext(elem[i][8][j][4][0]) #beats per minute
        #print time + " " + lat + " " + lon + " " + alt + " " + dist +
" " + bpm

print "\nReceiver Info       : " + gettext(elem[len(elem)-1][0])


From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 16:20:52 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:20:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<3611ca55-79a6-4336-9041-07d0893789f7@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
	<0447e8a2-508d-45b2-8d15-da0cc2a56b5f@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	
	 
	<0291a21a$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <8152546e-1f6f-4ea5-9b10-e1d9b5ffdab8@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 11, 2:00?pm, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:

> > test.cpp:1:1: warning: unknown escape sequence '\y'
>
> Isn't that a warning, not a fatal error? So what does temp contain?

My "Annotated C++ Reference Manual" is packed, and surprisingly in
Stroustrup's Third Edition, there is no mention of the issue in the
entire 1,000 pages. But Microsoft to the rescue:

     If you want a backslash character to appear within a string,
     you must type two backslashes (\\)

(From http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/69ze775t.aspx)

The question of what any specific C++ does if you ignore the warning
is irrelevant, as such behavior in C++ is almost *always* undefined.
Hence the warning.

|>ouglas


From cmalmqui at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 16:21:20 2009
From: cmalmqui at gmail.com (cmalmqui)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:21:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ElementTree - Howto access text within XML tag element...
References: <1ad8dac1-8fff-493a-a197-d847e7b6a761@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <512cde86-d758-48b7-b474-eac48ef56c54@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 11, 9:13?am, Ned Deily  wrote:
> In article
> <1ad8dac1-8fff-493a-a197-d847e7b6a... at c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>,
>
> ?cmalmqui  wrote:
> > I am writing on a small XML parser and are currently stuck as I am not
> > able to get the whole element name in ElementTree.
>
> > Please see the below example where "print root[0][0]" returns
> > ""
>
> > Is there a way to get hold of the "Running" string in the tag using
> > elementTree?
>
> > 
> > ? ? 
> > ? ? ? 2009-07-10T14:48:00Z
> > ? ? ? 
> > ? ? ? .........
>
> "Running" is the value of the "Sport" attribute of the "Activity"
> element. ?The documentation for the Element interface lists several ways
> to access element attributes; in your example,
>
> >>> elem = root[0][0]
> >>> elem.get("Sport")
> 'Running'
> >>> elem.attrib
>
> {'Sport': 'Running'}>>> elem.items()
>
> [('Sport', 'Running')]
>
> Seehttp://docs.python.org/library/xml.etree.elementtree.html
>
> --
> ?Ned Deily,
> ?n... at acm.org

Excellent!
Thanks!
The XML magic is getting there slowly...


From chris at simplistix.co.uk  Tue Aug 11 16:25:47 2009
From: chris at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:25:47 +0100
Subject: httplib incredibly slow :-(
Message-ID: <4A81D3CB.7080209@simplistix.co.uk>

Hi All,

I'm using the following script to download a 150Mb file:

from base64 import encodestring
from httplib import HTTPConnection
from datetime import datetime

conn = HTTPSConnection('localhost')
headers = {}
auth = 'Basic '+encodestring('username:password').strip()
headers['Authorization']=auth
t = datetime.now()
print t
conn.request('GET','/somefile.zip',None,headers)
print 'request:',datetime.now()-t
response = conn.getresponse()
print 'response:',datetime.now()-t
data = response.read()
print 'read:',datetime.now()-t

The output shows it takes over 20 minutes to do this.
However, this is on a local network, and downloading the same file in IE 
takes under 3 seconds!

I saw this issue:

http://bugs.python.org/issue2576

I tried changing the buffer size to 4096 in a subclass as the issue 
suggested, but I didn't see the reported speed improvement.
I'm using Python 2.6.2.

Does anyone know of an alternative library for creating http requests 
and getting their responses that's faster but hopefully has a similar 
interface?

Chris

-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting
            - http://www.simplistix.co.uk


From rcdailey at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 16:28:57 2009
From: rcdailey at gmail.com (Robert Dailey)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:28:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bug in format specification in Python 3?
Message-ID: 

Hello,

According to the Python 3.1 documentation, I can have a format
specification like so:

print( 'This is a hex number: {:#08x}'.format( 4 ) )

This will print:

This is a hex number: 0x000004

I notice that the '0x' portion is counted in the width, which was
specified as 8. This seems wrong to me. Is this by design? If so, why?
I expect that the width portion to only apply to the input + padding
only. I don't consider the '0x' portion part of the padding. But maybe
it is...


From http  Tue Aug 11 16:31:34 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 11 Aug 2009 13:31:34 -0700
Subject: Scraping Wikipedia with Python
References: 
	<4a81b6f0$0$1590$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	
	<6YidncRAiJ6SIxzXRVn_vwA@giganews.com>
	
Message-ID: <7xd472hz2x.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Dotan Cohen  writes:
> Thanks. I read the first bit of that page, but did not finish it.
> Grepping it for Python led to to what I need.

maybe you want dbpedia.


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Aug 11 16:32:56 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:32:56 +0100
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
In-Reply-To: <30eb6e66-1d5c-4a76-b80d-54d11bafbdb3@h31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<30eb6e66-1d5c-4a76-b80d-54d11bafbdb3@h31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Robert Dailey wrote:
> On Aug 11, 3:08 pm, Robert Dailey  wrote:
>> Hey guys. Being a C++ programmer, I like to keep variable definitions
>> close to the location in which they will be used. This improves
>> readability in many ways. However, when I have a multi-line string
>> definition at function level scope, things get tricky because of the
>> indents. In this case indents are serving two purposes: For syntax and
>> actual text output. The tabs for function scope should not be included
>> in the contents of the string. Below is the code I am trying to
>> improve. Notice how it looks ugly/unreadable because of the way the
>> string contents are shifted all the way to the left edge of the
>> document. This breaks the flow of scope. Would you guys solve this
>> problem by moving failMsg into global scope? Perhaps through some
>> other type of syntax?
>>
>> Help is appreciated!
>>
>> def RunCommand( commandList ):
>>    commandString =
>>    print( 'Running Command:',  )
>>    cmd = subprocess.Popen( commandList )
>>    returnCode = cmd.wait()
>>    if returnCode:
>>       failMsg = '''\
>> *************************************************
>> The following command returned exit code [{:#x}].
>> This represents failure of some form. Please review
>> the command output for more details on the issue.
>> ------------
>> {}
>> *************************************************
>> '''
>>       commandString = ' '.join( commandList )
>>       raise CommandFailure( failMsg.format( returnCode,
>> commandString ) )
> 
> And yes, I recognize there are syntax errors. Ignore those for now.
For starters take a look at http://tinyurl.com/o2o8r8 , just about every 
combination of string concatenation going there.  I assume that one of 
these will let you leave failMsg where it belongs.

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From rt8396 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 16:36:18 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:36:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<7xk51fgazf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
	
	
	
	<0006817d$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> 
	
	 
	<6790fee9-3374-4fd4-86d5-e7bfa0439ea5@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: <875f7a34-b270-4a8c-835b-790e19c12afa@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

Ah Ha! the docs are broken and i was right all along! Are the good
folks at Python dev rolling a new installer as we speak, or we must
wait for new version?


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Tue Aug 11 16:38:37 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:38:37 -0700
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
In-Reply-To: <8152546e-1f6f-4ea5-9b10-e1d9b5ffdab8@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>			<3611ca55-79a6-4336-9041-07d0893789f7@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>		<0447e8a2-508d-45b2-8d15-da0cc2a56b5f@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>		
	<0291a21a$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<8152546e-1f6f-4ea5-9b10-e1d9b5ffdab8@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A81D6CD.1060903@stoneleaf.us>

Douglas Alan wrote:
> On Aug 11, 2:00 pm, Steven D'Aprano  cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> 
> 
>>>test.cpp:1:1: warning: unknown escape sequence '\y'
>>
>>Isn't that a warning, not a fatal error? So what does temp contain?
> 
> 
> My "Annotated C++ Reference Manual" is packed, and surprisingly in
> Stroustrup's Third Edition, there is no mention of the issue in the
> entire 1,000 pages. But Microsoft to the rescue:
> 
>      If you want a backslash character to appear within a string,
>      you must type two backslashes (\\)
> 
> (From http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/69ze775t.aspx)
> 
> The question of what any specific C++ does if you ignore the warning
> is irrelevant, as such behavior in C++ is almost *always* undefined.
> Hence the warning.
> 
> |>ouglas

Almost always undefined?  Whereas with Python, and some memorization or 
a small table/list nearby, you can easily *know* what you will get.

Mind you, I'm not really vested in how Python *should* handle 
backslashes one way or the other, but I am glad it has rules that it 
follows for consitent results, and I don't have to break out a byte-code 
editor to find out what's in my string literal.

~Ethan~


From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Tue Aug 11 16:40:24 2009
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (Bearophile)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:40:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
Message-ID: <5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>

Robert Dailey:
> This breaks the flow of scope. Would you guys solve this
> problem by moving failMsg into global scope?
> Perhaps through some other type of syntax?

There are gals too here.
This may help:
http://docs.python.org/library/textwrap.html#textwrap.dedent

Bye,
bearophile


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Aug 11 16:46:12 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:46:12 +0100
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
In-Reply-To: <875f7a34-b270-4a8c-835b-790e19c12afa@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
References: 	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>	<7xk51fgazf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>					<0006817d$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
		
	<6790fee9-3374-4fd4-86d5-e7bfa0439ea5@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	
	<875f7a34-b270-4a8c-835b-790e19c12afa@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

r wrote:
> Ah Ha! the docs are broken and i was right all along! Are the good
> folks at Python dev rolling a new installer as we speak, or we must
> wait for new version?
As I pointed out a few minutes ago thicko, the new version has been 
available for months.

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From rays at blue-cove.com  Tue Aug 11 16:52:04 2009
From: rays at blue-cove.com (RJ)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:52:04 -0700
Subject: New 2.6 and wx install => DLL load failed: The specified
	procedure could not be found
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20090811134337.04a210d8@blue-cove.com>

I just installed python-2.6.2.msi from Python.org and 
wxPython2.8-win32-ansi-2.8.10.1-py26.exe and now can't import this 
wx. (I had 2.4, but uninstalled)
This reminds me of a basic question I had before: what are the 
compilers used for the Win32 binaries? Is this a compiler 
compatibility issue? a wx bug?

C:\projects>python
Python 2.6.2 (r262:71605, Apr 14 2009, 22:40:02) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)] on
win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> import wx
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "", line 1, in 
   File 
"C:\Python26\lib\site-packages\wx-2.8-msw-ansi\wx\__init__.py", line 45,
in 
     from wx._core import *
   File "C:\Python26\lib\site-packages\wx-2.8-msw-ansi\wx\_core.py", 
line 4, in <
module>
     import _core_
ImportError: DLL load failed: The specified procedure could not be found.
 >>> 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

From rcdailey at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 16:52:34 2009
From: rcdailey at gmail.com (Robert Dailey)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:52:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 11, 3:40?pm, Bearophile  wrote:
> Robert Dailey:
>
> > This breaks the flow of scope. Would you guys solve this
> > problem by moving failMsg into global scope?
> > Perhaps through some other type of syntax?
>
> There are gals too here.
> This may help:http://docs.python.org/library/textwrap.html#textwrap.dedent
>
> Bye,
> bearophile

It's a figure of speech. And besides, why would I want programming
advice from a woman? lol. Thanks for the help.


From charles at declareSub.com  Tue Aug 11 16:53:41 2009
From: charles at declareSub.com (Charles Yeomans)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 16:53:41 -0400
Subject: Programming by Contract
In-Reply-To: <4A81C6B8.7010605@stoneleaf.us>
References: <4A7A15CD.9090306@stoneleaf.us> <4A81C6B8.7010605@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <18F0FD2E-7C01-4B1C-85DF-28433C23D886@declareSub.com>


On Aug 11, 2009, at 3:30 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:

> Ethan Furman wrote:
>> Greetings!
>> I have seen posts about the assert statement and PbC (or maybe it  
>> was DbC), and I just took a very brief look at pycontract (http://www.wayforward.net/pycontract/ 
>> ) and now I have at least one question:  Is this basically another  
>> way of thinking about unit testing, or is the idea of PbC more  
>> along the lines of *always* checking the input/output of functions  
>> to ensure they are correct?  (*Contstant vigilance!* as Prof Moody  
>> would say ;)
>> I know asserts can be turned off, so they obviously won't work for  
>> the latter case, and having seen the sample of pycontract it seems  
>> it only does its thing during debugging.
>> So is Design (Programming) by Contract a fancy way of saying  
>> "Document your inputs/outputs!" or is there more to it?
>> ~Ethan~
>
> Hmmm...
>
> Well, from the (apparently) complete lack of interest, I shall take  
> away the (better?) documentation ideas and unit testing ideas, and  
> not worry about the rest.  :)
>
>




Design by contract is complementary to unit testing (I notice that the  
author of PEP 316 appears confused about this).  DbC is, roughly  
speaking, about explicit allocation of responsibility.  Consider this  
contrived example.

def foo(s):
     require(s is not None)
     //code
     ensure(hasattr(returnValue, '__iter__'))


The require condition tells you that it's the caller's responsibility  
to pass a non-nil argument to foo.  The ensure condition is a  
guarantee that foo will return something suitable for iteration, if  
the precondition in the require condition is satisfied.  These  
conditions can be enforced at runtime, but may not be, for reasons of  
performance.

DbC is in fact about not *always* checking the input/output of  
functions; on the contrary, Bertrand Meyer, the inventor of DbC,  
claims that DbC allows one to eliminate such redundancy, and the  
resulting overhead.

Charles Yeomans


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Tue Aug 11 17:04:43 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:04:43 +0100
Subject: Bug in format specification in Python 3?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A81DCEB.8020805@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Robert Dailey wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> According to the Python 3.1 documentation, I can have a format
> specification like so:
> 
> print( 'This is a hex number: {:#08x}'.format( 4 ) )
> 
> This will print:
> 
> This is a hex number: 0x000004
> 
> I notice that the '0x' portion is counted in the width, which was
> specified as 8. This seems wrong to me. Is this by design? If so, why?
> I expect that the width portion to only apply to the input + padding
> only. I don't consider the '0x' portion part of the padding. But maybe
> it is...

The width portion is the width of what is produced by the specification.
The '#' tells it to add '0x', so that's part of what's produced. If you
don't want the '0x' to be counted then don't include '#' in the
specification. It makes perfect sense! :-)


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Tue Aug 11 17:11:57 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:11:57 +0100
Subject: dictionary help
In-Reply-To: <4A816A400200008C00014A70@redhorse.forestry.uga.edu>
References: <4A816A400200008C00014A70@redhorse.forestry.uga.edu>
Message-ID: <4A81DE9D.1000505@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Krishna Pacifici wrote:
> Wow, thanks MRAB and Simon, you guys are good.
> 
> I guess I will go ahead and ask the next question that has also stumped 
> me for awhile now.
> 
> So basically I need to loop through the values in the new dictionary and 
> append attributes of a class object.  Each of the values (and keys) 
> represent a block in a grid with a specific location (e.g. 35 is the 
> block in row 3 col 5) and each block is an object with several 
> attributes associated with it.  I want to call that block and append two 
> separate attributes to the dictionary within that same key.
> 
> So again it would look something like this:
> 
> block 35 has 2 attributes, say a and b, a=2, b=5
> block 37 has a=1, b=3
> block 46 has a=3, b=8
> 
> the two attributes come from two different definitions within the class 
> statement,
> def detections
> ...
> return a
> 
> def abundance
> ...
> return b
> 
> so I would want to append to key 36 those two attributes for each block 
> so that the resulting dictionary item would look like this:
>                          a           b  
> {36:[35,37,46], [2,1,3], [5,3,8] ...}
> 
That doesn't look like a dictionary. Perhaps want you want is for the
value to be a list of lists:

     {36: [[35,37,46], [2,1,3], [5,3,8]] ...}

although you'd have parallel lists, ie a list of blocks, a list of 'a',
and a list of 'b'. A better format might be to keep a block's attributes
with the block itself.

     {36: [[35,2,5], [37,1,3], [46,3,8]] ...}

> Any help with this would be greatly appreciated.  And thank you so much 
> for all of your help thus far, I'm still pretty new to python and am 
> enjoying all of the flexibility associated with a scripting and 
> programming language.
> 
[snip]



From guthrie at mum.edu  Tue Aug 11 17:12:01 2009
From: guthrie at mum.edu (guthrie)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:12:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: run all scripts in sub-directory as subroutines?
Message-ID: 

I want to have a program which will form a list of all *.py scripts in
a sub-directory, and then call some standard messages on them. So I
can add a new data source modularly by just dropping a new file into
the sources directory with the appropriate methods in it.

For example:

path = sys.path[0]
print "Starting Directory:: " + path

getDir=path + "\Sources"            # point to directory of data
sources
for name in os.listdir(getDir):     # run collection from each source
    src = imp.load_source("data",getDir,open(getDir+"\\"+name, 'rb'))
    src.getData()
    src.doGraph()

This works fine, but in the sub-modules the sys.path appropriately
returns the same as from the parent, I want them to know their own
file names. How?? I can pass it to them, but wondered if there is a
more self-sufficient way for a module to know from where it was
invoked.


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Tue Aug 11 17:20:18 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:20:18 -0700
Subject: Programming by Contract
In-Reply-To: <18F0FD2E-7C01-4B1C-85DF-28433C23D886@declareSub.com>
References: <4A7A15CD.9090306@stoneleaf.us> <4A81C6B8.7010605@stoneleaf.us>
	<18F0FD2E-7C01-4B1C-85DF-28433C23D886@declareSub.com>
Message-ID: <4A81E092.1070303@stoneleaf.us>

Charles Yeomans wrote:
> 
> On Aug 11, 2009, at 3:30 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
> 
>> Ethan Furman wrote:
>>
>>> Greetings!
>>> I have seen posts about the assert statement and PbC (or maybe it  
>>> was DbC), and I just took a very brief look at pycontract 
>>> (http://www.wayforward.net/pycontract/ ) and now I have at least one 
>>> question:  Is this basically another  way of thinking about unit 
>>> testing, or is the idea of PbC more  along the lines of *always* 
>>> checking the input/output of functions  to ensure they are correct?  
>>> (*Contstant vigilance!* as Prof Moody  would say ;)
>>> I know asserts can be turned off, so they obviously won't work for  
>>> the latter case, and having seen the sample of pycontract it seems  
>>> it only does its thing during debugging.
>>> So is Design (Programming) by Contract a fancy way of saying  
>>> "Document your inputs/outputs!" or is there more to it?
>>> ~Ethan~
>>
>>
>> Hmmm...
>>
>> Well, from the (apparently) complete lack of interest, I shall take  
>> away the (better?) documentation ideas and unit testing ideas, and  
>> not worry about the rest.  :)
>>
>>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Design by contract is complementary to unit testing (I notice that the  
> author of PEP 316 appears confused about this).  DbC is, roughly  
> speaking, about explicit allocation of responsibility.  Consider this  
> contrived example.
> 
> def foo(s):
>     require(s is not None)
>     //code
>     ensure(hasattr(returnValue, '__iter__'))
> 
> 
> The require condition tells you that it's the caller's responsibility  
> to pass a non-nil argument to foo.  The ensure condition is a  guarantee 
> that foo will return something suitable for iteration, if  the 
> precondition in the require condition is satisfied.  These  conditions 
> can be enforced at runtime, but may not be, for reasons of  performance.
> 
> DbC is in fact about not *always* checking the input/output of  
> functions; on the contrary, Bertrand Meyer, the inventor of DbC,  claims 
> that DbC allows one to eliminate such redundancy, and the  resulting 
> overhead.
> 
> Charles Yeomans

Many thanks!

So if I understand -- Python's EAFP fits well with DbC, as DbC seems 
well suited to say, "This is your responsibility, and this is mine," 
stated in programming terms (who needs comments? ;)  Combined with unit 
testing (which should be easier to design correctly given the DbC code), 
healthy code seems more attainable.

Interesting.  Thank you for the information.

~Ethan~


From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 17:29:43 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:29:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<3611ca55-79a6-4336-9041-07d0893789f7@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
	<0447e8a2-508d-45b2-8d15-da0cc2a56b5f@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <494d80f1-0b47-468c-bdd9-7a087f6d915c@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> Because the cost isn't zero. Needing to write \\ in a string
> literal when you want \ is a cost,

I need to preface this entire post with the fact that I've
already used ALL of the arguments that you've provided on my
friend before I ever even came here with the topic, and my
own arguments on why Python can be considered to be doing
the right thing on this issue didn't even convince ME, much
less him. When I can't even convince myself with an argument
I'm making, then you know there's a problem with it!

Now back the our regularly scheduled debate:

I think that the total cost of all of that extra typing for
all the Python programmers in the entire world is now
significantly less than the time it took to have this
debate. Which would have never happened if Python did things
the right way on this issue to begin with. Meaning that
we're now at LESS than zero cost for doing things right!

And we haven't even yet included all the useless heat that
is going to be generated during code reviews and in-house coding
standard debates.

That's why I stand by Python's motto:

   THERE SHOULD BE ONE-- AND PREFERABLY ONLY ONE --OBVIOUS
   WAY TO DO IT.

> and having to read \\ in source code and mentally
> translate that to \ is also a cost.

For me that has no mental cost. What does have a mental cost
is remembering whether "\b" is an "unrecognized escape
sequence" or not.

> By all means argue that it's a cost that is worth paying,
> but please stop pretending that it's not a cost.

I'm not "pretending". I'm pwning you with logic and common
sense!

> Having to remember that \n is a "special" escape and \y
> isn't is also a cost, but that's a cost you pay in C++ too,
> if you want your code to compile.

Ummm, no I don't! I just always use "\\" when I want a
backslash to appear, and I only think about the more obscure
escape sequences if I actually need them, or some code that
I am reading has used them.

> By the way, you've stated repeatedly that \y will compile
> with a warning in g++. So what precisely do you get if you
> ignore the warning?

A program with undefined behavior. That's typically what a
warning means from a C++ compiler. (Sometimes it means
use of a deprecated feature, though.)

> What do other C++ compilers do?

The Microsoft compilers also consider it to be incorrect
code, as I documented in a different post.

> Apart from the lack of warning, what actually is the
> difference between Python's behavior and C++'s behavior?

That question makes just about as much sense as, "Apart
from the lack of a fatal error, what actually is the
difference between Python's behavior and C++'s?"

Sure, warnings aren't fatal errors, but if you ignore them,
then you are almost always doing something very
wrong. (Unless you're building legacy code.)

> > Furthermore, Python's strategy here is SPECIFICALLY
> > DESIGNED, according to the reference manual to catch
> > bugs. I.e., from the original posting on this issue:
>
> >      Unlike Standard C, all unrecognized escape sequences
> >      are left in the string unchanged, i.e., the backslash
> >      is left in the string.  (This behavior is useful when
> >      debugging: if an escape sequence is mistyped, the
> >      resulting output is more easily recognized as
> >      broken.)
>
> You need to work on your reading comprehension. It doesn't
> say anything about the motivation for this behaviour, let
> alone that it was "SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED" to catch bugs. It
> says it is useful for debugging. My shoe is useful for
> squashing poisonous spiders, but it wasn't designed as a
> poisonous-spider squashing device.

As I have a BS from MIT in BS-ology, I can readily set aside
your aspersions to my intellect, and point out the gross
errors of your ways: Natural language does not work the way
you claim. It is is much more practical, implicit, and
elliptical.

More specifically, if your shoe came with a reference manual
claiming that it was useful for squashing poisonous spiders,
then you may now validly assume poisonous spider squashing
was a design requirement of the shoe. (Or at least it has
become one, even if ipso facto.) Furthermore, if it turns out
that the shoe is deficient at poisonous spider squashing,
and consequently causes you to get bitten by a poisonous
spider, then you now have grounds for a lawsuit.

> > Because in the former cases it can't catch the the bug,
> > and in the latter case, it can.
>
> I'm not convinced this is a bug that needs catching, but if
> you think it is, then that's a reasonable argument.

All my arguments are reasonable.

> >> Perhaps it can catch *some* errors of that type, but
> >> only at the cost of extra effort required to defeat the
> >> compiler (forcing the programmer to type \\d to prevent
> >> the compiler complaining about \d). I don't think the
> >> benefit is worth the cost. You and your friend do. Who
> >> is to say you're right?
>
> > Well, Bjarne Stroustrup, for one.
>
> Then let him design his own language *wink*

Oh, I'm not sure that's such a good idea. He might come up
with a language as crazy as C++.

> >> In C++, if you see an escape you don't recognize, do you
> >> care?
>
> > Yes, of course I do. If I need to know what the program
> > does.
>
> Precisely the same as in Python.

Not so at all!

In C++ I only have to run for the manual only when someone
actually puts a *real* escape sequence in their code. With
Python, I have to run for the manual (or at least the REPL),
every time some lame-brained person who thinks they should be
allowed near a keyboard programs using "unrecognized escape
sequences" because they can't be bothered to hit the "\" key
twice.

> Seems to me that the answer is "It's not worse than C++,
> it's the same" -- in both cases, you have to memorize the
> "special" escape sequences, and in both cases, if you see
> an escape you don't recognize, you need to look it up.

The answer is that in this particular case, C++ causes me
far fewer woes! And if C++ is causing me fewer woes than
Language X, then you've got to know that Language X has a
problem.

> I disagree with your sense of aesthetics. I think that
> having to write \\y when I want \y just to satisfy a
> bondage-and-discipline compiler is ugly. That's not to deny
> that B&D isn't useful on occasion, but in this case I
> believe the benefit is negligible, and so even a tiny cost
> is not worth the pain.

EXPLICIT IS BETTER THAN IMPLICIT.

> > (2) That argument disagrees with the Python reference
> > manual, which explicitly states that "unrecognized escape
> > sequences are left in the string unchanged", and that the
> > purpose for doing so is because it "is useful when
> > debugging".
>
> How does it disagree? \y in the source code mapping to \y in
> the string object is the sequence being left unchanged. And
> the usefulness of doing so is hardly a disagreement over the
> fact that it does so.

Because you've stated that "\y" is a legal escape sequence,
while the Python Reference Manual explicitly states that it
is an "unrecognized escape sequence", and that such
"unrecognized escape sequences" are sources of bugs.

> > What makes it "illegal". As far as I can tell, it's just
> > another "unrecognized escape sequence".
>
> No, it's recognized, because \x is the prefix for an
> hexadecimal escape code. And it's illegal, because it's
> missing the actual hexadecimal digits.

So? Why does that make it "illegal" rather than merely
"unrecognized?"

SIMPLE IS BETTER THAN COMPLEX.

> All joking aside, syntax varies from one language to
> another. What counts as a legal escape sequence in
> Javascript and what counts as a legal escape sequence in
> Python are different. What makes you think I'm talking
> about Javascript?

Because anyone with common sense will agree that "\y" is an
illegal escape sequence. The only disagreement should then
be how illegal escape sequences should be handled. Python is
not currently handling them in a way that makes the most
sense.

ERRORS SHOULD NEVER PASS SILENTLY.

> But the morass only exists in the first place because you
> have adopted C++'s approach instead of Python's approach --
> and (possibly) not even a standard part of the C++ approach,
> but a non-standard warning provided by one compiler out of
> many.

Them's fighting words! I rarely adopt the C++ approach to
anything! In this case, (1) C++ just coincidentally happens
to be right, and (2) as far as I can tell, g++ implements
the C++ standard correctly here.

> > It may not be a complex form of DWIMing, but it's still
> > DWIMing a bit.  Python is figuring that if I typed "\z",
> > then either I must have really meant to type "\\z",
>
> Nope, not in the least. Python NEVER EVER EVER tries to
> guess what you mean.

Neither does Perl. That doesn't mean that Perl isn't often
DWIMy.

> This is *exactly* like C++, except that in Python the
> semantics of \y and \\y are identical. Python doesn't
> guess what you mean, it *imposes* a meaning on the escape
> sequence. You just don't like that meaning.

That's because I don't like things that are ill-conceived.

> > I.e., more or less like continuing on in the face of
> > what the Python Reference manual refers to as an
> > "unrecognized escape sequence".

> The wording could be better, I accept. It would be better
> to talk about "special escapes" (e.g. \n) and "any
> non-special escape" (e.g. \y).

Or maybe the wording is just fine, and it's the treatment of
unrecognized escape sequences that could be better.

|>ouglas




From no.email at please.post  Tue Aug 11 17:30:24 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:30:24 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to access a function's formal signature?
Message-ID: 



In the standard Python interactive interpreter, the string printed
by the help command when applied to a function includes the function's
formal signature.  E.g.:

>>> def foo(bar, *baz, **frobozz):
...   pass
... 
>>> help(foo)
Help on function foo in module __main__:

foo(bar, *baz, **frobozz)


Here by "signature" I'm referring to the substring "bar, *baz,
**frobozz" shown above (or, equivalently, any other object from
which this string could be deduced).  (I figured out that I can
retrieve this signature using methods in the inspect module.)

OK, now, is there a way to modify a function so that pydoc (and
presumably also the interactive interpreter's help function, etc.)
will print out a desired specific signature for this function?

For example, is there some way that I can modify foo above so that
help(foo) will print out

foo(x, y=None)

I tried mucking with foo.func_code's co_argcount, co_varnames, and
co_flags attributes, but as it turns out, they are read-only,
unfortunately.

The context here is the problem of writing a signature-changing
decorator in such a way that documentation facilities like help
and pydoc will print out the signature of the *original* undecorated
code (with some modifications), rather than the signature of the
decorated method.

TIA!

kynn


From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 17:39:30 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:39:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	
	
	
	
	<86e09602-7eb1-4397-a77f-fb1e3c5b34b9@k26g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <6cca7095-cd11-4961-a44c-78da1b4ddf6b@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 10, 11:27?pm, Steven D'Aprano
 wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 08:21:03 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:
> > But you're right, it's too late to change this now.
>
> Not really. There is a procedure for making non-backwards compatible
> changes. If you care deeply enough about this, you could agitate for
> Python 3.2 to raise a PendingDepreciation warning for "unexpected" escape
> sequences like \z,

How does one do this?

Not that I necessarily think that it is important enough a nit to
break a lot of existing code.

Also, if I "agitate for change", then in the future people might
actually accurately accuse me of agitating for change, when typically
I just come here for a good argument, and I provide a connected series
of statements intended to establish a proposition, but in return I
receive merely the automatic gainsaying of any statement I make.

|>ouglas



From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 17:42:02 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:42:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> 
	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com> 
	<7xk51fgazf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
	
	
	
	<0006817d$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> 
	
	 
	<6790fee9-3374-4fd4-86d5-e7bfa0439ea5@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> 
	
	<875f7a34-b270-4a8c-835b-790e19c12afa@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 11, 1:46?pm, Mark Lawrence  wrote:
> r wrote:
> > Ah Ha! the docs are broken and i was right all along! Are the good
> > folks at Python dev rolling a new installer as we speak, or we must
> > wait for new version?
>
> As I pointed out a few minutes ago thicko, the new version has been
> available for months.


Hello,

I'm mailing you to kindly request, again, that you please stop
validating "r"'s disruptiveness by responding to him on
comp.lang.python.  Thank you.

Carl Banks


From deets at nospam.web.de  Tue Aug 11 17:42:42 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 23:42:42 +0200
Subject: ElementTree - Howto access text within XML tag element...
In-Reply-To: 
References: <1ad8dac1-8fff-493a-a197-d847e7b6a761@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<7ecm77F2fbf71U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
Message-ID: <7ee6ukF2fo0t8U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

cmalmqui schrieb:
> On Aug 11, 9:51 am, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
>> cmalmqui schrieb:
>>> Hi,
>>> I am writing on a small XML parser and are currently stuck as I am not
>>> able to get the whole element name in ElementTree.
>>> Please see the below example where "print root[0][0]" returns
>>> ""
>>> Is there a way to get hold of the "Running" string in the tag using
>>> elementTree?
>>> 
>>>     
>>>       2009-07-10T14:48:00Z
>>>       
>>>       .........
>>> For those of you that know how to program XML I have another
>>> question:
>>> I am currently "hardcoding" my XML parser using brackets, is this a
>>> good approach or should I build it using a "search on tag" approach.
>> What do you mean by that - hardcoding by brackets?
>>
>> Diez
> 
> Indeed, my current approach has been to hardcode the XML parser using
> brackets. Is there a more elegant way?
> 
> I am parsing a garmin xml file from a handheld GPS and as you can see
> in the below script, I am hardcoding each node:

As you don't give an actual example of how the XML looks like, it's hard 
to tell. But under the assumption that the tag-names are not generic, 
I'd certainly go for

   root.find("tagname")

instead. That's much clearer, and you don't rely on an actual order of 
elements.

Diez


From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 17:48:24 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:48:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<3611ca55-79a6-4336-9041-07d0893789f7@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
	<0447e8a2-508d-45b2-8d15-da0cc2a56b5f@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	
	 
	<0291a21a$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<8152546e-1f6f-4ea5-9b10-e1d9b5ffdab8@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <1a0e1e6d-d902-4df7-8d35-850c4f62cc9c@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 11, 4:38?pm, Ethan Furman  wrote:

> Mind you, I'm not really vested in how Python *should* handle
> backslashes one way or the other, but I am glad it has rules that it
> follows for consitent results, and I don't have to break out a byte-code
> editor to find out what's in my string literal.

I don't understand your comment. C++ generates a warning if you use an
undefined escape sequence, which indicates that your program should be
fixed. If the escape sequence isn't undefined, then C++ does the same
thing as Python.

It would be *even* better if C++ generated a fatal error in this
situation. (g++ probably has an option to make warnings fatal, but I
don't happen to know what that option is.) g++ might not generate an
error so that you can compile legacy C code with it.

In any case, my argument has consistently been that Python should have
treated undefined escape sequences consistently as fatal errors, not
as warnings.

|>ouglas



From rurpy at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 11 17:50:51 2009
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:50:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>

On 08/11/2009 11:53 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 07:57:28 -0700, rurpy wrote:
>
>> On 08/11/2009 01:47 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
>>> r   gmail.com>   writes:
>>>> On Aug 9, 11:02 pm, David Lyon   wrote:
>>>>> Since you're talking about documentation, which is a part of python,
>>>>> don't you think you should be discussing it on python-dev ?
>>>> Yea, them's be a friendly bunch to noob ideas ;). Hey i got a better
>>>> idea, lets go to the IRS and see if we can persuade them to stop
>>>> taxing us...
>>> You know, the most interesting thing in this thread is certainly its
>>> title : ? Social problems of Python doc ?
>>>
>>> Yes, the little social problem here should be clear: if you have
>>> complaints to voice or improvements to suggest to the Python docs, you
>>> should do so on the issue tracker (*). For most topics, this is the
>>> only reasonable way to signal problems to the Python developers
>>> community, and so it is in most free software / open source projects.
>> "the *only* reasonable way"?  That's clearly wrong (unless you want to
>> wiggle in the room provided by "reasonable" or "most"). There is
>> discussion on the dev list, there is discussion here.
>
> Discussion here is spitting into the wind. The noise-to-signal ratio is
> high enough that the people who can fix an issue aren't likely to see it
> here. Unless somebody raises a report in the bug tracker, it will go
> nowhere, fast.

The point isn't always to gain a core developer's attention --
sometimes it is to figure out a good approach before proposing
something concrete.

> The same happens for issues on the dev list: I can't count how many times
> people there have said "put it in the bug tracker, or it will be
> forgotten".

On the contrary, there are many issues raised there that are
discussed there or result in the response, "take it to python-
ideas".  Not every issue to so well-baked that it is ready for
a tracker issue with patch.  There are some things that need
discussion before investing a lot of effort in them.

>> The issue tracker is fine for many things, but the process it provides
>> is equivalent to peep-hole optimization.  How does one submit a tracker
>> issue for something like the overall organization of the docs (for
>> example, the mis-placement of things like data- types in the library
>> manual rather than the language manual)?
>
> The same way you would submit a tracker issue for anything.
>
> "Documentation bug: Data types are misplaced in the library manual
> instead of the language manual.
>
> Suggested alternative: move page docs.python.org/xyz.html to abc.html"

But that's the problem.  Such a reorg is not a simple matter
of moving a file from here to there.  It will require a lot
moving about of sections and a lot of word-smithing to glue
them back together again in a coherent way.

A tracker issue, even one that was fairly specific about
how things should be reorganized but which did not provide
all the needed changes (a large patch) would almost certainly
be ignored or rejected.  But providing a large patch raises
two questions.  How likely is it to be be accepted?
(Something anyone would want to know before investing the time.)
And how to actually do the work needed to generate it (it could
be a very large amount of work for an individual and I don't
think it can be broken down into small independent issues.)
How is one to test the waters as to acceptability, or solicit
help, if one simply submits a tracker issue?

>> The big problem with the docs is poor writing (this includes not using
>> examples when they can help explain something more clearly than verbiage
>> alone).
>
> There's a difference between insufficiently good writing and poor
> writing: think of grading the docs, where 100 is "perfect in every way"
> and -100 is "perfectly awful in every possible way". (It's not a linear
> scale.) A score of 0 is "mediocre, just barely acceptable". Poor writing
> has a negative score. In my opinion, Python's docs are perhaps a 40 or
> 50, significantly better than most technical docs I've seen.

There is no objective way of rating docs.  My evaluation results
in part from the fact that I was able to learn Perl using only
the man pages.  I seriously attempted the same with the supposedly
easier-to-learn Python but was not able to and had to resort to
other web resources and buying Beazly's book.

Before you reply that tutorials are for learning, not reference
manuals, I will disagree.  A well written reference manual will
provide all the information needed to understand a language (albeit
arranged differently than the linear form of a tutorial), and I
have learned several languages in addition to Perl from their
reference materials.  Which is why I attribute my failure to do
so with Python to be the docs' fault.

> [...]
>>   I can rewrite some section so it sounds good to me, but likely it will
>> be just as bad (perhaps in different ways) that what is there.
>
> Bug reports are valuable even if you don't have the skills to provide a
> patch. Bug reports with patches are even more valuable, but that doesn't
> mean that the failure to provide a patch *necessarily* dooms your report
> to oblivion.
>
>
>> The post that started this thread proposed something like paying
>> professional writers to improve the docs.  This may or may not be a
>> practical suggestion.  But the immediate response it engendered was an
>> auto-immune-like group response: the docs are great already, don't
>> complain, fix them yourself, yada, yada; the same response that any
>> criticism of free software produces.
>
> I haven't seen any such knee-jerk responses. What I've seen is a set of
> sensible, *practical* advice:
>
> - complaining on its own, especially here, is pointless;

I don't think that is true.  (Or rather, the extent that it is true
is determined by the attitudes here.)

> - Python is a community effort, if you see something that needs fixing,
> do something about it;

Pointing out something that needs fixing *is* doing something
about it.  Maybe not as much as you'd like but from each according
to his ability...

> - many of us DON'T want arbitrary people "correcting" the official docs
> without oversight, and believe that would be a disaster (arbitrary people
> aren't give check-in privileges to add code to Python's standard library,
> nor should they be given check-in privileges to add docs);

Agreed.  I hope that was clear from my earlier post.

> - if people are keen on a Python wiki, then by all means publish one,
> just don't expect the Python dev team to build and manage it for you;

As luminous a Pythoneer as Fredrik Lundh set up a documentation
wiki to collect user contributions but it has faded away.  If
he couldn't pull it off then I'd say most other attempts without
the backing of python.org are almost certainly doomed to failure.
However, were the Python docs site to provide a wiki, along
with a mechanism to migrate suggestions developed on the wiki
into the docs, it might well be a viable (and easier because of
the wysiwyg effect) way of improving the docs.  As other have
pointed out, Postgresql, PHP, and Haskell have done so.
Now maybe there are good reasons not to do that.  But your hand-
waving is not one of them.

> - bug reports and patches to the docs are ALWAYS welcome, even if they
> are rejected;

Of course.  The cost for briefly looking at a report before
rejecting it is very low.  However the cost for producing it
can be much higher.  I'm not saying that that is what happens,
just that your statement considers only the pov of the issue
handlers, not the submitters.

> - if you don't have the skills to fix a bug (including doc bugs), an
> alternative is to pay somebody else to do so instead.

That there are alternatives was not my point.  My point was
that there are perhaps *other* alternatives too, but anyone
who tries to explore them here usually gets buried under a
mass of negativity.

>> It's really too bad the the python community can't seriously discuss
>> ways to improves the docs.  There are other possibilities for instance
>> the Fedora Docs project (can't say I'm impressed by what they've
>> produced but that doesn't mean their model is useless).  There is a need
>> for an approval process managed by someone who actually understands what
>> good technical writing is.  And perhaps editors who can polish or work
>> with programmers who provide the raw technical description of some
>> module.
>
> Yes, you're correct.
>
> [sarcasm] Now that we've agreed on what needs to be done, the problem is
> solved!!! [end sarcasm]

Anyone who's ever been to AA knows that the first step to
solving a problem is to acknowledge the problem exists.
As long as every "the docs sux" complaint is met here with
the standard responses that I've mentioned, rather than, "yes,
they do have some problems, what do you think we should do
about them?", the docs will continue to sux.  But as I said
maybe that's just the way it is.

>> Some kind of higher level more global process is the only way I can see
>> that the docs will be improved to any sort or professional standard.  I
>> don't see how issues like this will be addressed by submitting tracker
>> items.
>
> You want community input into the docs, but you're not willing to give
> that input except to bitch and moan and sook that the tracker is no good.

I have not done any "bitching and moaning".  I tried to
explain a group reaction that affects python negatively
(IMO) by rejecting any consideration of ways of improving
the docs other than submitting tracker issues.
That you pejoratively label it "bitching and moaning"
I count as evidence supporting my view.

> Even if the PSF had a full-time team of professional documentation
> writers and editors, guess what, you would STILL need to submit issues to
> the bug tracker, because otherwise THEY WON'T BE TRACKED.

Maybe, maybe not.  Depends on what development process the
(hypothetical) doc team chooses to use is.

>> Personally, I have given up on this issue.  The social factors involved
>> really pretty much determine that the Python docs will never reach a
>> very high quality -- that's just the way it is and I've come to accept
>> that.
>
> Ultimately it boils down to two factors:
>
> Money.
>
> Effort.
>
> If you won't put in the effort, and you won't put in the money, then it
> won't happen. Moaning that other people aren't putting in the money to
> hire team of professional writers isn't productive, and moaning that
> other people aren't putting in the effort to improve the docs isn't
> either.

Eh?  I have a computer filled with software that I put no
money or effort into, yet there it is.  So clearly you are
wrong in the general sense.  Before you call me a free-loading
ingratiate consider the software you use and how much of it you
have made substantive contributions to.  We all have limited
time and resources and we all have to choose where to invest that
time.  That some of us choose to invest it somewhere other than
Python does not deprive of of our right to point out problems
in Python when we note them.



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Aug 11 18:06:35 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 23:06:35 +0100
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<7xk51fgazf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>					<0006817d$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
		
	<6790fee9-3374-4fd4-86d5-e7bfa0439ea5@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
		<875f7a34-b270-4a8c-835b-790e19c12afa@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>	
	
Message-ID: 

Carl Banks wrote:
> On Aug 11, 1:46 pm, Mark Lawrence  wrote:
>> r wrote:
>>> Ah Ha! the docs are broken and i was right all along! Are the good
>>> folks at Python dev rolling a new installer as we speak, or we must
>>> wait for new version?
>> As I pointed out a few minutes ago thicko, the new version has been
>> available for months.
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I'm mailing you to kindly request, again, that you please stop
> validating "r"'s disruptiveness by responding to him on
> comp.lang.python.  Thank you.
> 
> Carl Banks
I hereby apologise.  My only feeble excuse is that my mammary glands are 
getting crushed.

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From paul at boddie.org.uk  Tue Aug 11 18:08:59 2009
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 15:08:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <9811a980-af7f-4f4b-a0f9-d3f8e565b8ac@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On 11 Aug, 23:50, ru... at yahoo.com wrote:
>
> However, were the Python docs site to provide a wiki, along
> with a mechanism to migrate suggestions developed on the wiki
> into the docs, it might well be a viable (and easier because of
> the wysiwyg effect) way of improving the docs. ?As other have
> pointed out, Postgresql, PHP, and Haskell have done so.
> Now maybe there are good reasons not to do that. ?But your hand-
> waving is not one of them.

I think you make some good points, although I don't have time to
respond to all of them. Certainly, the documentation situation with
Python is not ideal; otherwise, people would not be complaining about
it so frequently.

I recommend going to the existing Wiki and looking at what there is
already:

http://wiki.python.org/moin/Documentation
http://wiki.python.org/moin/CategoryDocumentation

Sadly, I don't think you'll find much to work with, apart from the
occasional attempt to make an annotated version of the existing
documentation:

http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonLibraryReference

So my next recommendation is to either use the existing Wiki
infrastructure or to ask for a separate Wiki for the purpose of
reworking the documentation. You could either take the existing
documentation, which I believe is now restructured text, and just drop
that into the Wiki with the appropriate format directives (for later
reworking in Wiki format, perhaps), or you could start afresh and
tackle some of the more serious issues head on.

I can see benefits to just starting from scratch. Perhaps the
licensing should be more explicit than the existing material on the
Wiki so that the documentation produced could be freely distributed
without uncertainty, but the outcome would hopefully be something that
stands on its own as an alternative or a replacement to the
conventional documentation.

Paul


From joelriv at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 18:09:37 2009
From: joelriv at gmail.com (Joel Juvenal Rivera Rivera)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 17:09:37 -0500
Subject: create shell history with python
Message-ID: <1250028577.1453.46.camel@localhost>

I been thinking how to make a 'bash like history shell' in python,
i don't know if with stdin and stdout i can accomplish this or do i
need something like curses and stuff like that, anyway im start to
figure this out.
Does any body has try this? or have any interesting idea?

--Joel Rivera




From clp2 at rebertia.com  Tue Aug 11 18:15:02 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 18:15:02 -0400
Subject: create shell history with python
In-Reply-To: <1250028577.1453.46.camel@localhost>
References: <1250028577.1453.46.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908111515t386f7ee7w6fcebd1326c77263@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 6:09 PM, Joel Juvenal Rivera
Rivera wrote:
> I been thinking how to make a 'bash like history shell' in python,
> i don't know if with stdin and stdout i can accomplish this or do i
> need something like curses and stuff like that, anyway im start to
> figure this out.
> Does any body has try this? or have any interesting idea?

http://docs.python.org/library/readline.html

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From deets at nospam.web.de  Tue Aug 11 18:15:38 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 00:15:38 +0200
Subject: create shell history with python
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7ee8saF2e47vaU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Joel Juvenal Rivera Rivera schrieb:
> I been thinking how to make a 'bash like history shell' in python,
> i don't know if with stdin and stdout i can accomplish this or do i
> need something like curses and stuff like that, anyway im start to
> figure this out.
> Does any body has try this? or have any interesting idea?

Don't waste your time, use IPython :)

http://ipython.scipy.org/moin/

Diez


From joelriv at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 18:18:55 2009
From: joelriv at gmail.com (Joel Juvenal Rivera Rivera)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 17:18:55 -0500
Subject: create shell history with python
In-Reply-To: <50697b2c0908111515t386f7ee7w6fcebd1326c77263@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1250028577.1453.46.camel@localhost>
	<50697b2c0908111515t386f7ee7w6fcebd1326c77263@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1250029135.1453.48.camel@localhost>

Wow i didn't  know that module this solves everything... i guess python
has a lot more  batteries than i thought .
Thank you Chris

El mar, 11-08-2009 a las 18:15 -0400, Chris Rebert escribi?:
> On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 6:09 PM, Joel Juvenal Rivera
> Rivera wrote:
> > I been thinking how to make a 'bash like history shell' in python,
> > i don't know if with stdin and stdout i can accomplish this or do i
> > need something like curses and stuff like that, anyway im start to
> > figure this out.
> > Does any body has try this? or have any interesting idea?
> 
> http://docs.python.org/library/readline.html
> 
> Cheers,
> Chris



From deets at nospam.web.de  Tue Aug 11 18:23:39 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 00:23:39 +0200
Subject: for key, value in dict.() - how to get? (which func)
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <7ee9beF2gr846U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

dmitrey schrieb:
> Yes, thank you, items() is the correct approach, on the other hand I
> have already get rid of the cycle.

Most certainly items() is *not* the correct approach if you are 
concerned so much with performance, because items() first creates a list 
of key/value-pairs, where iteritems() will be an effective iterator.

so if you are (IMHO wrongly) concerned about performance of an O(1) 
lookup, items() certainly costs more.

And the following program proves it:

import time

d = dict(zip(xrange(100000), xrange(100000)))

start = time.time()
for loops in xrange(100):
     for key in d:
         value = d[key]

print "lookup: ", time.time() - start

start = time.time()

for loops in xrange(100):
     for key, value in d.items():
         value = d[key]


print "items: ", time.time() - start

start = time.time()

for loops in xrange(100):
     for key, value in d.iteritems():
         value = d[key]


print "items: ", time.time() - start


The result on my machine is:

deets$ python /tmp/test.py

lookup:  2.78633999825
items:  7.42830610275
items:  3.69960308075

So actually your condemed approach seems to be the fastest, where the 
items() call by far is the slowest approch.

"In the face of ambiguity, refuse the temptation to guess."


Diez


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Aug 11 18:25:27 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 11 Aug 2009 15:25:27 -0700
Subject: httplib incredibly slow :-(
References: 
Message-ID: 

In article ,
Chris Withers   wrote:
>
>Does anyone know of an alternative library for creating http requests 
>and getting their responses that's faster but hopefully has a similar 
>interface?

PyCurl
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"...string iteration isn't about treating strings as sequences of strings, 
it's about treating strings as sequences of characters.  The fact that
characters are also strings is the reason we have problems, but characters 
are strings for other good reasons."  --Aahz


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 19:12:42 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 16:12:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	<7xk51fgazf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> 
	 
	
	
	
	<0006817d$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> 
	
	 
	<6790fee9-3374-4fd4-86d5-e7bfa0439ea5@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> 
	
	<875f7a34-b270-4a8c-835b-790e19c12afa@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

...(Carl Banks doing what he does best)
> > I'm mailing you to kindly request, again, that you please stop
> > validating "r"'s disruptiveness by responding to him on
> > comp.lang.python. ?Thank you.

Carl,
You have no right to tell people when where and how they should speak
to anyone. And how dare you think you can! If you spent even a
fraction of the time you spend manipulating the direction of this list
and instead, actually contributing to the problem at hand, (discussion
or otherwise) we would be much closer to solving this problem today.

You (and your conspirators) are the reason most people find the c.l.py
list so disturbing and wish not to participate. Get a life you moron
and stop trying to control the world.

PS: GET STUFFED!


From rays at blue-cove.com  Tue Aug 11 19:13:37 2009
From: rays at blue-cove.com (RJ)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 16:13:37 -0700
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
In-Reply-To: <9811a980-af7f-4f4b-a0f9-d3f8e565b8ac@g10g2000yqh.googlegro
	ups.com>
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	<9811a980-af7f-4f4b-a0f9-d3f8e565b8ac@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20090811160723.04a40580@blue-cove.com>

At 03:08 PM 8/11/2009, you wrote:
>I recommend going to the existing Wiki and looking at what there is
>already:
>
>http://wiki.python.org/moin/Documentation
>http://wiki.python.org/moin/CategoryDocumentation

I also can't see how to get 
from  http://wiki.python.org/moin/Documentation to 
http://wiki.python.org/moin/CategoryDocumentation, for one...

>Sadly, I don't think you'll find much to work with, apart from the
>occasional attempt to make an annotated version of the existing
>documentation:
>
>http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonLibraryReference

The library reference above needs a link to Modules (and the link to 
Andrew's pages are now dead - 
http://pydoc.amk.ca/frame.html)

What I've always looked for and Google constantly for, is a main 
language version of the features of http://www.scipy.org/Cookbook and 
http://code.activestate.com/recipes/langs/python/, with module level 
organization. At least users can submit something at Activestate. The 
issue there (and at Scipy) is that I usually want an example 
illustrating some method, and that's not how it's organized (but is 
at those Other language sites), so I still need to search at Scipy, or do
http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Ascipy.org+foo
-------------- next part --------------
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From cjns1989 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 19:16:55 2009
From: cjns1989 at gmail.com (Chris Jones)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 19:16:55 -0400
Subject: [OT] From: header - WAS: Python docs disappointing - group effort	to
	hire writers?
In-Reply-To: <7xab266v1j.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<081115fd-8014-4e6b-8d7b-76d6fcf6a59d@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<7xr5vj9m0g.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<2fd432c7-00e2-4bb6-9192-e9f7aa96c4d7@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<7xab266v1j.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <20090811231655.GA3491@turki.gavron.org>

Hello Paul,

This is strictly OT, but when you get a chance, could you contact me off
list at the above address?

I need your help with the From: email address specified in your posts to
the list. 

Thanks,

CJ


From Nikolaus at rath.org  Tue Aug 11 19:21:16 2009
From: Nikolaus at rath.org (Nikolaus Rath)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 19:21:16 -0400
Subject: Monkeypatching an object to become callable
References: <87hbwgu7xa.fsf@vostro.rath.org>
	<0aa46ece-64b9-4c28-b690-5ac5937ce3f2@f20g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
	<4a7fd55e$0$32765$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <87iqguey37.fsf@vostro.rath.org>

Bruno Desthuilliers  writes:
> 7stud a ?crit :
> (snip)
>> class Wrapper(object):
>>     def __init__(self, obj, func):
>>         self.obj = obj
>>         self.func = func
>>
>>     def __call__(self, *args):
>>         return self.func(*args)
>>
>>     def __getattr__(self, name):
>>         return object.__getattribute__(self.obj, name)
>
> This should be
>
>           return getattr(self.obj, name)
>
> directly calling object.__getattribute__ might skip redefinition of
> __getattribute__ in self.obj.__class__ or it's mro.

Works nicely, thanks. I came up with the following shorter version which
modifies the object in-place:

class Modifier(obj.__class__):
     def __call__(self):
         return fn()

obj.__class__ = Modifier


To me this seems a bit more elegant (less code, less underscores). Or
are there some cases where the above would fail?


Best,

   -Nikolaus

-- 
 ?Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a Banana.?

  PGP fingerprint: 5B93 61F8 4EA2 E279 ABF6  02CF A9AD B7F8 AE4E 425C


From chris at simplistix.co.uk  Tue Aug 11 19:25:41 2009
From: chris at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 00:25:41 +0100
Subject: httplib incredibly slow :-(
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <4A81FDF5.6010508@simplistix.co.uk>

Aahz wrote:
> In article ,
> Chris Withers   wrote:
>> Does anyone know of an alternative library for creating http requests 
>> and getting their responses that's faster but hopefully has a similar 
>> interface?
> 
> PyCurl

This seems to be a wrapper around libcurl.

Does it work on Windows?
If so, where can I find some decent examples?
(the ones listed on the pycurl website are not what I'd call decent :-S)

Chris


-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting
            - http://www.simplistix.co.uk


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 19:37:51 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 16:37:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	<9811a980-af7f-4f4b-a0f9-d3f8e565b8ac@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 11, 3:08?pm, Paul Boddie  wrote:
> Certainly, the documentation situation with
> Python is not ideal; otherwise, people would not be complaining about
> it so frequently.

I will not take an opinion on whether Python's documentation is ideal
(more on why below) but I will opine that the conclusion doesn't
follow from your premise.  People's expectations of what documentation
should be are too different, there will always be people who aren't
pleased.  IOW, there is no "ideal".

For example, kj (who started this mess of thread) complained that
pydoc didn't give exhaustive usage documentation.  In contrast, I
think pydoc gives too much information.  I would rather have only the
bare minimum; I don't want to pan through ten paragraphs just to see
what the fifth argument is.

So who's right?

No one, there is no "right".  Unfortunately some people can't or won't
respect that opinions differ; they have to take perceived defects in
the docs personally.


Carl Banks


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 19:47:38 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 16:47:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to access a function's formal signature?
References: 
Message-ID: <9c025b8e-9602-48cf-be77-f67e9ed3953c@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 11, 2:30?pm, kj  wrote:
> In the standard Python interactive interpreter, the string printed
> by the help command when applied to a function includes the function's
> formal signature. ?E.g.:
>
> >>> def foo(bar, *baz, **frobozz):
>
> ... ? pass
> ...>>> help(foo)
>
> Help on function foo in module __main__:
>
> foo(bar, *baz, **frobozz)
>
> Here by "signature" I'm referring to the substring "bar, *baz,
> **frobozz" shown above (or, equivalently, any other object from
> which this string could be deduced). ?(I figured out that I can
> retrieve this signature using methods in the inspect module.)
>
> OK, now, is there a way to modify a function so that pydoc (and
> presumably also the interactive interpreter's help function, etc.)
> will print out a desired specific signature for this function?

I think you'd have to modify pydoc.  pydoc pulls this information out
from the function's attributes (and maybe also it's underlying code
object) which are read-only.


Carl Banks


From danb_83 at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 11 20:08:01 2009
From: danb_83 at yahoo.com (AggieDan04)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 17:08:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bug in format specification in Python 3?
References: 
Message-ID: <8ae626c7-1f21-4ab6-b299-2e5633755fbf@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 11, 3:28?pm, Robert Dailey  wrote:
> Hello,
>
> According to the Python 3.1 documentation, I can have a format
> specification like so:
>
> print( 'This is a hex number: {:#08x}'.format( 4 ) )
>
> This will print:
>
> This is a hex number: 0x000004
>
> I notice that the '0x' portion is counted in the width, which was
> specified as 8. This seems wrong to me. Is this by design? If so, why?
> I expect that the width portion to only apply to the input + padding
> only. I don't consider the '0x' portion part of the padding. But maybe
> it is...

It's unintuitive to me, too, but it's the same thing that Python 2.x
did:

>>> print '%#08x' % 4
0x000004



From skippy.hammond at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 20:10:18 2009
From: skippy.hammond at gmail.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 17:10:18 -0700
Subject: Windows 7 : any problems installing or running Python ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <4A82086A.4060606@gmail.com>

On 9/08/2009 10:42 PM, Tim Roberts wrote:
> Dave WB3DWE wrote:
>>
>> Anybody tried it ?
>> Is anything broken, ie is the whole shootin' match good to go ?
>> I'm esp interested in WConio for 3.0/3.1 which I use heavily.
>
> I've been running the 32-bit builds of Python 2.5, PyWin32, and wxPython on
> Windows 7 64-bit for many months.  No problems at all.
>
> I hated Vista; I would only run it if my clients insisted on having their
> drivers tested on it.  Vista SP1 was somewhat better, but I don't mind
> Windows 7 at all.  I might even upgrade my primary development machine from
> XP.  A number of the usually cranky driver developers have expressed the
> same opinion.  Microsoft might actually have a winner here.

"Me too" :)

Mark


From exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  Tue Aug 11 20:19:28 2009
From: exarkun at twistedmatrix.com (exarkun at twistedmatrix.com)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 00:19:28 -0000
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	<9811a980-af7f-4f4b-a0f9-d3f8e565b8ac@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <20090812001928.10431.2043769776.divmod.xquotient.0@localhost.localdomain>

On 11 Aug, 11:37 pm, pavlovevidence at gmail.com wrote:
>
>I will not take an opinion on whether Python's documentation is ideal
>(more on why below) but I will opine that the conclusion doesn't
>follow from your premise.  People's expectations of what documentation
>should be are too different, there will always be people who aren't
>pleased.  IOW, there is no "ideal".
>
>For example, kj (who started this mess of thread) complained that
>pydoc didn't give exhaustive usage documentation.  In contrast, I
>think pydoc gives too much information.  I would rather have only the
>bare minimum; I don't want to pan through ten paragraphs just to see
>what the fifth argument is.
>
>So who's right?
>
>No one, there is no "right".  Unfortunately some people can't or won't
>respect that opinions differ; they have to take perceived defects in
>the docs personally.

This is right on.  Excellent point, Carl.

Jean-Paul


From rurpy at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 11 20:46:39 2009
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 17:46:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> 
	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com> 
	<7xk51fgazf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
	
	
	
	<0006817d$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> 
	
	 
	<6790fee9-3374-4fd4-86d5-e7bfa0439ea5@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> 
	
	<875f7a34-b270-4a8c-835b-790e19c12afa@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 11, 2:46 pm, Mark Lawrence  wrote:
> r wrote:
> > Ah Ha! the docs are broken and i was right all along! Are the good
> > folks at Python dev rolling a new installer as we speak, or we must
> > wait for new version?
>
> As I pointed out a few minutes ago thicko, the new version has been
> available for months.

Now hold on here...

I too was bitten by this.  I thought the chm docs were so unusable
that I went to the issue tracker, extremely annoyed, to submit a
rather caustic bug report.  Only after looking through the doc bugs
did I find that it was already recognised, that a corrected chm
file was available, and that there were no plans to do any more
than that.  (This is from memory since the python tracker is down).

On the main download page is a link to the 2.6.2 msi file with not
a word about the help file.  Only if you follow the "python-2.6.2"
link to a second page, is there a link to the corrected help file,
and even that says only, "Updated Windows help file" with no
indication that it is supposed to replace a broken one in the
distribution.

If "r" is a "thicko", I'd say the handling of this issue was done
by some who are considerably thicker.

It may also be yet another example of how documentation (using
the word loosely) is produced without sufficient attention to its
usefulness to its intended audience.


From jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu  Tue Aug 11 20:54:36 2009
From: jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 17:54:36 -0700
Subject: hashability
Message-ID: 

Hello All,

I wrote the function to test hashability of arbitrary objects. My reason 
is that the built-in python (2.5) hashing is too permissive for some 
uses. A symptom of this permissiveness comes from the ability to 
successfully hash() arbitrary objects:

   py> class C(object): pass
   ...
   py> {C():4}[C()]
   ------------------------------------------------------------
   Traceback (most recent call last):
     File "", line 1, in 
   : <__main__.C object at 0xe21610>

The basis for the exception is that the two instances do not have the 
same hash() although conceptually they might seem equal to the 
unitiated. Were I to re-design python, I'd throw an exception in this 
case because of the ill-defined behavior one might expect if a C() 
serves as a key for a dict.

To prevent users of one of my libraries from falling into this and 
similar traps (which have potentially problematic consequences), I came 
up with this test for hashability:

def hashable(k):
   try:
     hash(k)
   except TypeError:
     good = False
   else:
     good = (hasattr(k, '__hash__') and
             (hasattr(k, '__eq__') or hasattr(k, '__cmp__')))
   return good

It works as I would like for most of the cases I can invent:

   py> all(map(hashable, [1,1.0,"",(1,2,3)]))
   True
   py> any(map(hashable, [None, [1,2], {}, C(), __import__('sys')]))
   False

Can anyone think of boundary cases I might be missing with this approach?


James


From db3l.net at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 21:18:43 2009
From: db3l.net at gmail.com (David Bolen)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:18:43 -0400
Subject: Networked Broadcast Messaging
References: <37ea826b-708d-48f4-a64a-42f58fec5325@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

"squishywaffle at gmail.com"  writes:

> * Machines can come and go. Since messages are not directly sent to a
> specific IP address from our Python script, the messages are simply
> broadcasted to those who are there to listen. If nobody is subscribed
> to the message type being sent, nothing happens.

What sort of delivery guarantees are you looking for if there is in
fact a machine that is trying to listen to a particular message or
message group?  Is it ok if someone is listening for a certain type of
message, is it ok if it misses one that is sent?

If you do simple direct broadcasting (e.g., UDP), you'd need your own
reliability layer above that if you cared if the message actually got
to an intended destination if that destination was present.

If you want better guarantees, you might look into a distributed
message bus like Spread (http://www.spread.org/) or perhaps a
messaging protocol like XMPP (http://xmpp.org/) through its PubSub
extension.  Both have Python interfaces, though I have no personal
experience with either.  But perhaps that will also give you some
terms or starting points for searching for other options.

-- David


From contact at xavierho.com  Tue Aug 11 21:38:08 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:38:08 +1000
Subject: Any built-in function for smallest positive floating point 
	number?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908111838n602c52fbu2d7754733b6246@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 3:29 AM, Maria Liukis  wrote:

> Hello everybody,
> Is somebody aware of built-in Python's function that would return
> a value for smallest positive double precision floating point number
> (analogous to 'realmin' in Matlab). Python has built-in sys.maxint but I
> could not find anything for float.
>

I'm not sure if this helps, but here you go:
http://drj11.wordpress.com/2007/07/05/the-smallest-number/

I couldn't get it to work on Python 2.6.2 or 3.1 myself, however it seems
pretty small.

- Xav
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From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 21:40:15 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 18:40:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: hashability
References: 
Message-ID: <3c01fa6b-b6b7-4c02-aaf8-34e005355f31@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 11, 5:54?pm, James Stroud  wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> I wrote the function to test hashability of arbitrary objects. My reason
> is that the built-in python (2.5) hashing is too permissive for some
> uses. A symptom of this permissiveness comes from the ability to
> successfully hash() arbitrary objects:
>
> ? ?py> class C(object): pass
> ? ?...
> ? ?py> {C():4}[C()]
> ? ?------------------------------------------------------------
> ? ?Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? ? ?File "", line 1, in 
> ? ?: <__main__.C object at 0xe21610>
>
> The basis for the exception is that the two instances do not have the
> same hash() although conceptually they might seem equal to the
> unitiated. Were I to re-design python, I'd throw an exception in this
> case because of the ill-defined behavior one might expect if a C()
> serves as a key for a dict.

That's arguably the right thing to do.

Personally I've found that being able to use class instances as
hashable objects to be terribly useful (these objects are hashed and
compared by identity, of course), so I don't mind it.  But I can
definitely see how this straddles the line between "practicality" and
"face of ambiguity".  And if Python didn't do it by default, it would
be little trouble to add the appropriate __eq__ and __hash__ methods.


> To prevent users of one of my libraries from falling into this and
> similar traps (which have potentially problematic consequences),

Even so, I would consider whether some of your users might, like me,
also find this terribly useful, and if so (probably a few will unless
they are all novices), allow them to disable or disregard this check.

> I came
> up with this test for hashability:
>
> def hashable(k):
> ? ?try:
> ? ? ?hash(k)
> ? ?except TypeError:
> ? ? ?good = False
> ? ?else:
> ? ? ?good = (hasattr(k, '__hash__') and
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?(hasattr(k, '__eq__') or hasattr(k, '__cmp__')))
> ? ?return good

I wouldn't call the function "hashable".  Class instances like C() are
hashable whether you approve or not.  Something like
"deliberately_hashable" would be a better name.


> It works as I would like for most of the cases I can invent:
>
> ? ?py> all(map(hashable, [1,1.0,"",(1,2,3)]))
> ? ?True
> ? ?py> any(map(hashable, [None, [1,2], {}, C(), __import__('sys')]))
> ? ?False
>
> Can anyone think of boundary cases I might be missing with this approach?

It is possible to redefine == operator by defining __ne__ instead of
__eq__, at least on Python 2.5, so you should keep that in mind.


Carl Banks


From contact at xavierho.com  Tue Aug 11 21:42:36 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:42:36 +1000
Subject: Any built-in function for smallest positive floating point 
	number?
In-Reply-To: <2d56febf0908111838n602c52fbu2d7754733b6246@mail.gmail.com>
References: 
	<2d56febf0908111838n602c52fbu2d7754733b6246@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908111842g11ff8f49w7c96a8bbbb929d83@mail.gmail.com>

I got it to work with Python 2.6.2.

>>> import struct
>>> struct.unpack('d', struct.pack('Q', 1))[0]
4.9406564584124654e-324

Python 3.1 will print 5e-324, which is fair enough.

Cheers,
Xavier
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From contact at xavierho.com  Tue Aug 11 21:49:00 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:49:00 +1000
Subject: Any built-in function for smallest positive floating point 
	number?
In-Reply-To: <2d56febf0908111842g11ff8f49w7c96a8bbbb929d83@mail.gmail.com>
References: 
	<2d56febf0908111838n602c52fbu2d7754733b6246@mail.gmail.com>
	<2d56febf0908111842g11ff8f49w7c96a8bbbb929d83@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908111849y393a65fk609e787eee9bd6f3@mail.gmail.com>

Actually, that was double precision. You asked for float precision.

>>> struct.unpack('f', struct.pack('L', 1))[0]
1.4012984643248171e-45

which is the same as:
>>> 2**-149
1.4012984643248171e-45

I think that's it. Sorry for posting to the list three times in a row.
corrections welcome.
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From rurpy at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 11 21:50:39 2009
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 18:50:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	<9811a980-af7f-4f4b-a0f9-d3f8e565b8ac@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <56a1d77e-0379-49e4-99c1-2d0de1378bc2@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 11, 4:08?pm, Paul Boddie  wrote:
> On 11 Aug, 23:50, ru... at yahoo.com wrote:
> > However, were the Python docs site to provide a wiki, along
> > with a mechanism to migrate suggestions developed on the wiki
> > into the docs, it might well be a viable (and easier because of
> > the wysiwyg effect) way of improving the docs. ?As other have
> > pointed out, Postgresql, PHP, and Haskell have done so.
> > Now maybe there are good reasons not to do that. ?But your hand-
> > waving is not one of them.
>[...]
> I can see benefits to just starting from scratch. Perhaps the
> licensing should be more explicit than the existing material on the
> Wiki so that the documentation produced could be freely distributed
> without uncertainty, but the outcome would hopefully be something that
> stands on its own as an alternative or a replacement to the
> conventional documentation.

A couple years ago I actually did give a half-assed try to rewriting
the doc.  I got the doc source downloaded and buildable with the
intent
of rewriting in bits and pieces as I had occasion to use (and find
problems with) various parts.  Not knowing latex, I stupidly got side-
tracked trying to convert it to docbook which I was more interested
in.
After I gave up on that and went back to latex, I found merging
changes
from Python into my source (a little of which was heavily modified by
this time) to be very time consuming.  And eventually the Python side
was changed to REST putting an end to my effort which by that time
were already pretty minimal.  I concluded that the rewrite I was
trying
to do was comparable to writing a Python book, and too ambitious for
one person working on it <5 hrs/week.

And of course I am not any better writer (probably worse) than the
average Python programmer.  Which is the problem with using a wiki --
unless good writers contribute, I see no reason to expect much
better results than already exist.  But maybe I am too pessimistic...



From http  Tue Aug 11 21:51:03 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 11 Aug 2009 18:51:03 -0700
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	<9811a980-af7f-4f4b-a0f9-d3f8e565b8ac@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <7xocqler5k.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Carl Banks  writes:
> On> For example, kj (who started this mess of thread) complained that
> pydoc didn't give exhaustive usage documentation.  In contrast, I
> think pydoc gives too much information.  I would rather have only the
> bare minimum; I don't want to pan through ten paragraphs just to see
> what the fifth argument is.

The problem is that it doesn't sufficiently separate the carefully
written useful stuff from the automatically generated useless stuff.


From afriere at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Aug 11 22:06:54 2009
From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 19:06:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: hashability
References: 
Message-ID: <77eda964-a6ee-496b-9c5f-5391663099e0@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 12, 10:54?am, James Stroud  wrote:

> I wrote the function to test hashability of arbitrary objects. My reason
> is that the built-in python (2.5) hashing is too permissive for some
> uses. A symptom of this permissiveness comes from the ability to
> successfully hash() arbitrary objects:

Arbitrary, or anonymous objects and some uses or some users?  I'm
can't see why anyone would expect different instance of a class to be
equivalent keys.

> The basis for the exception is that the two instances do not have the
> same hash() although conceptually they might seem equal to the
> unitiated.

Perhaps the best solution would be for the unitiated to correct their
misaprehensions?  If you don't understand that you are instantiating a
number of anonymous instances of a class you are missing something
very fundamental.

> Were I to re-design python, I'd throw an exception in this
> case because of the ill-defined behavior one might expect if a C()
> serves as a key for a dict.

Then you couldn't to this:

d = {C():1, C():2, C():3}
a,b,c = d.keys()
d[c]

Anonymous instances are a GoodThing(tm) and they can usually be de-
anonymised if need be.


From andrew at acooke.org  Tue Aug 11 22:13:39 2009
From: andrew at acooke.org (andrew cooke)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 19:13:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Frustrated with scopes
Message-ID: <28f6f8e1-2689-4ff3-b453-e6c8859d2c43@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>


Is there a way to make this work (currently scope and join are
undefined at runtime when the inner class attributes are defined):

class _StreamFactory(object):

    @staticmethod
    def __call__(lines, source, join=''.join):

        class Line(object):

            __source = source
            __join = join
[...]

I can get something working by bouncing through global values, but it
looks awful and I think it's a source of a bug due too values being
redefined.

Thanks,
Andrew


From andrew at acooke.org  Tue Aug 11 22:14:27 2009
From: andrew at acooke.org (andrew cooke)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 19:14:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Frustrated with scopes
References: <28f6f8e1-2689-4ff3-b453-e6c8859d2c43@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

correction: "source" and "join" are undefined.  Sorry, Andrew



From jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu  Tue Aug 11 22:15:07 2009
From: jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 19:15:07 -0700
Subject: hashability
In-Reply-To: <3c01fa6b-b6b7-4c02-aaf8-34e005355f31@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<3c01fa6b-b6b7-4c02-aaf8-34e005355f31@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Carl Banks wrote:
> On Aug 11, 5:54 pm, James Stroud  wrote:
> 
>> To prevent users of one of my libraries from falling into this and
>> similar traps (which have potentially problematic consequences),
> 
> Even so, I would consider whether some of your users might, like me,
> also find this terribly useful, and if so (probably a few will unless
> they are all novices), allow them to disable or disregard this check.

I realize I left out my use. The intent of the function is to flag 
objects that will make useful keys for a persistent dictionary. The 
{C():4}[C()] example demonstrates why I want to avoid certain types of 
keys--I don't want users to do things like {C():4, C():4}, which python 
happily allows but falls apart at the level of persistence.

However, I also want to avoid isinstance() and/or type checking in order 
to allow maximal flexibility so that users don't have to work too hard 
to make their keys.

> I wouldn't call the function "hashable".  Class instances like C() are
> hashable whether you approve or not.  Something like
> "deliberately_hashable" would be a better name.

I chose "keyable".

>> Can anyone think of boundary cases I might be missing with this approach?
> 
> It is possible to redefine == operator by defining __ne__ instead of
> __eq__, at least on Python 2.5, so you should keep that in mind.

Thanks for this hint. I've already put it in.

James


From jus__ at hotmail.com  Tue Aug 11 22:22:27 2009
From: jus__ at hotmail.com (Jus)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:22:27 -0400
Subject: Unsigned char array to an unsigned longlong array
Message-ID: 

Hello,

 

I'm using Python 2.6.2.

Is there a way to have an Array of unsigned longlong (C Type: unsigned
longlong, Minimum size if bytes: 8) ?

I found a page on the internet
(http://mail.python.org/pipermail/patches/2005-April/017430.html
 ), but I'm not quite sure if it is available.

 

 

What I want to do is to store an array of bytes in an array of longlongs.

To workaround this issue, I have tried to use the double array (TypeCode
'd'), since the size in bytes is the same (8 for instance).

But it gives me strange result. Please look at the example:

 

import array

myByteArray = array.array('B', [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8])

>> myByteArray = array('B', [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8])

 

myLongArray = array.array('L', myByteArray.tostring() )

>> myLongArray = array('L', [67305985L, 134678021L])

 

myDoubleArray = array.array('d', myByteArray.tostring() )

>> myDoubleArray = array('d', [5.447603722011605e-270])

 

If we convert the byte array to an hex form, we will get for the long array:
[04030201, 08070605].

If we convert this hex array to decimal, we then get the Long Array:
[67305985, 134678021].

 

Now, if we do the same exercise for the double array, the hex form will look
like: [0807060504030201].

And the decimal value would be: [5.784376957523072e+17].

 

Where does the 5.447603722011605e-270 value comes from ?

 

 

Thanks for your help,

Francis

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From afriere at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Aug 11 22:24:39 2009
From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 19:24:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: hashability
References: 
	<3c01fa6b-b6b7-4c02-aaf8-34e005355f31@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <62618e10-44f0-406d-8446-efe78a9c101c@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 12, 12:15?pm, James Stroud  wrote:

> I realize I left out my use. The intent of the function is to flag
> objects that will make useful keys for a persistent dictionary. The
> {C():4}[C()] example demonstrates why I want to avoid certain types of
> keys--I don't want users to do things like {C():4, C():4}, which python
> happily allows but falls apart at the level of persistence.

What am I missing here?  How, in terms of persistence, is {C():4, C():
4} conceptually different from {'spam':4, 'ham':4}?


From davea at ieee.org  Tue Aug 11 22:29:20 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:29:20 -0400
Subject: adding multiple new values to the same key in a dictionary
In-Reply-To: <4A8192A30200008C00014AB9@redhorse.forestry.uga.edu>
References: <4A8192A30200008C00014AB9@redhorse.forestry.uga.edu>
Message-ID: <4A822900.7030008@ieee.org>

Krishna Pacifici wrote:
> Hi,
> I want to be able to add multiple new values to a key in a dictionary.
>
> I have tried the following:
>
> sec_dict_clean=
> {88: [87, 89, 78, 98], 58: [57, 59, 48, 68], 69: [79], 95: [94, 96, 85]}
>
> for i in range(len(sec_dict_clean.values())):
>     for j in range(len(sec_dict_clean.values()[i])):
>         sec_dict_clean.setdefault(key,[]).append(blocks[sec_dict_clean.values()[i][j]].abundance)
>
> where blocks[...].abundance gives me a single value from an object,
>
> but this gives me the following:
>
> sec_dict_clean=
> {88: [87, 89, 78, 98], 58: [57, 59, 48, 68], 69: [79], 95: [94, 96, 85, 4, 12, 11, 6, 9, 12, 11, 7, 10, 10, 12, 9, 6, 12, 15, 9, 8, 12, 15, 12, 12]}
>
> instead I want each abundance (starts with 4, 12...) to be associated with each of the values so that it would look like this:
>
> sec_dict_clean=
> {88: ([87, 89, 78, 98], [4,12,11,6]), 58: ([57, 59, 48, 68], [9,12,11,7]), 69: ([79], [10])...}
>
> You can see there are several errors here (I have more things being appended than there are values in the dictionary), but I really just want to know how to add multiple values to the same key in a dictionary.
>
> Thanks for any help,
> Krishna
>
>
>
>   
You're really distorting the purposes of both dictionary and list here.  
It makes your code totally unreadable, which makes it hard to write, and 
hard to debug.

A dictionary is a mapping between key and value, where each key has 
exactly one value.  You cannot add another one to it.   All you can do 
is make the value something which is itself a collection.  Now, your 
desired dictionary looks achievable, almost.  If you change the parens 
(tuple) to square brackets (list), then it'll work.
    So key 88 has a single value, which is a list of two items.  Each of 
those items is itself a list with 4 items.  And each of those items are 
integers.

But then I got bogged down in your sample code.  I tried to simplify it, 
replacing the first two lines with these three:

for i, key in enumerate(sec_dict_clean):
    val = sec_dict_clean[key]
    for j, xxx in enumerate(val):
        
???sec_dict_clean.setdefault(key,[]).append(blocks[sec_dict_clean.values()[i][j]].abundance)

But I can't make head nor tail of the third line.  You didn't have a 
variable key, so I don't know if I'm using the same one..  Since I can't 
figure out what you were trying to do, I can't see how to fix it.

I think the problem here is you're trying to reorganize the data as well 
as adding to it, in a single pass.  So is some previous code generating 
the dictionary incorrectly, and instead of fixing that, you're trying to 
reorganize it here?

To make each dictionary value a list of lists:

sec_dict_clean=
{88: [87, 89, 78, 98], 58: [57, 59, 48, 68], 69: [79], 95: [94, 96, 85]}

for key in sec_dict_clean:
    sec_dict_clean[key] = [sec_dict_clean[key]]

now,  the dict looks like:
{88: [[87, 89, 78, 98, 3]], 58: [[57, 59, 48, 68]], 69: [[79]], 95: 
[[94, 96, 85]]}

At this point, if you have some interesting data to add to it, you can 
just append a new list to
     dict[key]

In an earlier message, you mentioned fields a and b, and assuming this 
is a similar problem, it would seem that 87 is somehow associated with 
4, and 89 with 12, and so on.  If that's the case, perhaps your desired 
final structure might look more like:

{88: [[87,4], [89,12], [78, 11],[98, 6],   58: [[57, 9], [59, 12], [48, 11], [68, 7]],   69: ...}


In this case, the structure is entirely different.  But the approach is 
the same.  And at least you'd be getting closer to the object approach 
where  [87,4] is replaced by an object of some type.

BTW, please don't top-post.  When you reply to this one, put your reply 
at the end, or sometimes interspersed.  But if you put it at the 
beginning, it's out of order.

DaveA



From davea at ieee.org  Tue Aug 11 22:54:49 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:54:49 -0400
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A822EF9.2090907@ieee.org>

Robert Dailey wrote:
> Hey guys. Being a C++ programmer, I like to keep variable definitions
> close to the location in which they will be used. This improves
> readability in many ways. However, when I have a multi-line string
> definition at function level scope, things get tricky because of the
> indents. In this case indents are serving two purposes: For syntax and
> actual text output. The tabs for function scope should not be included
> in the contents of the string. Below is the code I am trying to
> improve. Notice how it looks ugly/unreadable because of the way the
> string contents are shifted all the way to the left edge of the
> document. This breaks the flow of scope. Would you guys solve this
> problem by moving failMsg into global scope? Perhaps through some
> other type of syntax?
>
> Help is appreciated!
>
> def RunCommand( commandList ):
>    commandString =
>    print( 'Running Command:',  )
>    cmd = subprocess.Popen( commandList )
>    returnCode = cmd.wait()
>    if returnCode:
>       failMsg = '''\
> *************************************************
> The following command returned exit code [{:#x}].
> This represents failure of some form. Please review
> the command output for more details on the issue.
> ------------
> {}
> *************************************************
> '''
>       commandString = ' '.join( commandList )
>       raise CommandFailure( failMsg.format( returnCode,
> commandString ) )
>
>   
No, don't put it in global scope.  Put it externally, so it can be 
readily localized for international markets.

DaveA


From abecedarian314159 at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 11 23:22:56 2009
From: abecedarian314159 at yahoo.com (William)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 20:22:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is there any package implanation the following arithmetics?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <904309.72680.qm@web110602.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

What you want is:
http://www.cgal.org/

I believe it has python bindings.

Cheers,
William



________________________________
From: Emile van Sebille 
To: python-list at python.org
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 12:49:19 PM
Subject: Re: Is there any package implanation the following arithmetics?

On 8/11/2009 1:49 AM zhongshq said...
> Hi,
> 
> I wonder if there has any package can check whether two rectangles are
> overlap, is a dot inside or outside a polygon, etc.

PythonCad at http://sourceforge.net/projects/pythoncad/ has intersections built in.

Emile

-- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



      
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From lanyjie at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 12 00:15:39 2009
From: lanyjie at yahoo.com (Yingjie Lan)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:15:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: releasing expy 0.1.1
Message-ID: <932447.5519.qm@web54201.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


Hi all,

This is to announce the release of expy 0.1.1 for those who are interested. Thanks a lot for the interest from this list. For more information, please see 

http://expy.sf.net/

Note: expy is an express way to extend Python. Why consider expy? Here are some good reasons:

(I). WYSIWYG. The expy project enables you to write your module in Python the way your extension would be (WYSIWYG), and meanwhile write your implementation in pure C. You specify your modules, functions, methods, classes, and even their documentations the usual way of writing your Python correspondences. Then your provide your implementation to the functions/methods by returning a multi-line string. By such an arrangement, everything falls in its right place, and your extension code becomes easy to read and maintain. Also, the generated code is very human-friendly.

(II). You only provide minimal information to indicate your intension of how your module/class would function in Python. So your extension is largely independent from the Python extension API. As your interaction with the Python extension API is reduced to minimal (you only care about the functionality and logic), it is then possible that your module written in expy can be independent of changes in the extension API.

(III). The building and setup of your project can be automatically done with the distutil tool. In the tutorial, there are ample examples on how easily this is achieved.

(IV). Very light weight. The expy tool is surprisingly light weight dispite of its powerful ability, as it is written in pure Python. There is no parser or compiler for code generation, but rather the powerful reflexion mechanism of Python is exploited in a clever way to generate human-friendly codes. Currently, generating code in C is supported, however, the implementation is well modularized and code generation in other languages such as Java and C++ should be easy.

While there are already a couple of other projects trying to simply this task with different strategies, such as Cython, Pyrex and modulator, this project is unique and charming in its own way. All you need is the WYSIWYG Python file for your module extension, then expy takes care of everything else. What follows in this documentation is on how to extend Python in C using expy-cxpy: the module expy helps define your module, while module cxpy helps generate C codes for your defined module.

regards,

Yingjie


      


From arphaksad at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 00:27:47 2009
From: arphaksad at gmail.com (naaman)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:27:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: fileinput
Message-ID: 

I'm writing my first Python script and
I want to use fileinput to open a file in r+ mode.
Tried fileinput.input(sys.argv[1:],"r+") but that didn't work.
ANy ideas?

Need to find and overwrite a line in a file several times.
I can do it using open and seek() etc. but was wondering if I can use
fileinput.

thanks;



From bouncyinc at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 00:28:22 2009
From: bouncyinc at gmail.com (John Haggerty)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:28:22 -0600
Subject: getting a "simple" program to work
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

just checking to see if there is any input that may have been misdirected to
a spam filter.
Would love to see some feedback if I may

On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 6:42 PM, John Haggerty  wrote:

> ok so I know this is one of those "weird" requests but here me out.
> So far I have an issue with a package for python called "libgmail" which is
> basically a gmail interface for python to send messages remoetly.
>
> Works ok except that the 'sendMessage' routine is bad.
>
> This is included in the above attachment
>
> it's used in a program called "ogss" which is an sms interface to gmail to
> basically read gmail and then have a command done on a remote machine and
> then spat out on the local machine to a log file that's opened and then
> emailed back
>
> problem is that the sending back routine fails.
>
> Now I've found a program that will more or less do what is requied but it's
> not really exactly what would be used in that it doesn't use the libgmail
> routine.
>
> So far the maintainer of both packages seem to be afk or not having their
> routines fixed and so far debian/Unbuntu claim that the last version of the
> package has been fixed :(
>
> Is there a recommendatin of how to combine/alter so that ogss can transmit?
> My main issue is that python is lesser known to me than Chinese (which I
> also don't know).
>
> My idea of this is to have a remote email timeclock program which could
> then be scripted with any language or just "echo >>blah" if necessary.
>
> Thanks in advance :)
>
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From clp2 at rebertia.com  Wed Aug 12 00:46:49 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 00:46:49 -0400
Subject: getting a "simple" program to work
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908112146q6e12650dt914518166b4fae72@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 8:42 PM, John Haggerty wrote:
> ok so I know this is one of those "weird" requests but here me out.
> So far I have an issue with a package for python called "libgmail" which is
> basically a gmail interface for python to send messages remoetly.
> Works ok except that the 'sendMessage' routine is bad.

How is it "bad" precisely? Be specific (e.g. error message(s),
description of observed incorrect behavior).

> This is included in the above attachment
> it's used in a program called "ogss" which is an sms interface to gmail to
> basically read gmail and then have a command done on a remote machine and
> then spat out on the local machine to a log file that's opened and then
> emailed back
> problem is that the sending back routine fails.

Which routine is that exactly? Please also specify exactly how it is
failing (e.g. error message(s), description of observed incorrect
behavior).

I apologize if these questions are answered in comments in the
attachments, but to be honest, the fact that you didn't (or couldn't)
put the specific problematic sections of code (and/or error messages)
inline in your message makes it less likely that people (such as
myself) will try to help you due to the volume of code you're making
people wade through (i.e. people tend not to read large code dumps,
/especially/ in attachments).

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From bouncyinc at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 01:02:57 2009
From: bouncyinc at gmail.com (John Haggerty)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 23:02:57 -0600
Subject: getting a "simple" program to work
In-Reply-To: <50697b2c0908112146q6e12650dt914518166b4fae72@mail.gmail.com>
References: 
	<50697b2c0908112146q6e12650dt914518166b4fae72@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 10:46 PM, Chris Rebert  wrote:

> On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 8:42 PM, John Haggerty wrote:
> > ok so I know this is one of those "weird" requests but here me out.
> > So far I have an issue with a package for python called "libgmail" which
> is
> > basically a gmail interface for python to send messages remoetly.
> > Works ok except that the 'sendMessage' routine is bad.
>
> How is it "bad" precisely? Be specific (e.g. error message(s),
> description of observed incorrect behavior).
>

In regards to bad would be failing to transmit claiming that the submittal
is wrong for the transmit string.

(where username is my gmail username and "password" is my gmail password to
the test account, 6666666969 is the mobile number in question '00' is my
"carrier id" from the ogss code example which is just an array location from
a preformatted part of the string [probably from wikipedia on mobile carrier
email addresses to cell phones], I actually got desperate and commented out
the first attempt to transmit which I located in the code as just the
"instructions" the code fails on re-transmission, I later on looked at the
file and located that it was a zero byte file of no content. The program
itself looks for a command from the user's cell phone directly from mms sent
to the target gmail account prefaced by "Ogss" and anything else is treated
as a command but since the command failed on the first transmit I don't
think it's the command per se).

owner at bouncyinc:~/Desktop/OGSS$ python ogss.py username password 6666666969
00
Starting ogss
Logfile at:/home/owner/ogss.log
Opening log file for reading
Parsing user input
Connecting to Gmail
Logging into Gmail
Opening log file for writing
Listening for commands
Processing Command
ls: unrecognized option `---------------------------------------------'
Try `ls --help' for more information.
Seding back results
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "ogss.py", line 127, in 
    main(sys.argv)
  File "ogss.py", line 110, in main
    account.sendMessage(tosend)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/libgmail.py", line 615, in
sendMessage
    raise GmailSendError, resultInfo[SM_MSG]
libgmail.GmailSendError: Please try again.

I traced the result to the sendMessage routine and noted that anytime it
tries to send anything it fails this also fails with the standard "docs"
package for libgmail 0.30 docs from the maintainer's site.

Now the part where it *does* fail is where it has an issue with looking at
the trailing info but then it would have logged the info to the file and
emailed me back junk (which it didn't)

I assume this could be done on any system just replace 'ls' with 'dir' or
the equivalent.


>
> > This is included in the above attachment
> > it's used in a program called "ogss" which is an sms interface to gmail
> to
> > basically read gmail and then have a command done on a remote machine and
> > then spat out on the local machine to a log file that's opened and then
> > emailed back
> > problem is that the sending back routine fails.
>
> Which routine is that exactly? Please also specify exactly how it is
> failing (e.g. error message(s), description of observed incorrect
> behavior).
>
> I apologize if these questions are answered in comments in the
> attachments, but to be honest, the fact that you didn't (or couldn't)
> put the specific problematic sections of code (and/or error messages)
> inline in your message makes it less likely that people (such as
> myself) will try to help you due to the volume of code you're making
> people wade through (i.e. people tend not to read large code dumps,
> /especially/ in attachments).
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --
> http://blog.rebertia.com
>
That's ok I understand I hope that helps at least in part.
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From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Aug 12 01:11:22 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 15:11:22 +1000
Subject: Character encoding & the copyright symbol
References: <29ab0981-b95d-4435-91bd-a7a520419ada@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <87skfxehvp.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Dave Angel  writes:

> But I wanted to comment on the (c) remark.  If you're in the US,
> that's the wrong abbreviation for copyright.  The only recognized
> abbreviation is (copr).

More reading on this:

    
    

In brief: To be a legally-recognised copyright notice under US law, it
must begin with ?Copyright?, or one of the abbreviations ?Copr.? or the
exact symbol ???. As you rightly point out, neither ?(c)? nor ?(C)? have
any legal status as a copyright marker.

The Berne Convention, by making copyright active on *every* creative
work of expression, even in the total *absence* of a copyright notice,
essentially undermines the force of this and makes it exceedingly
difficult to divest a work of copyright. But that's a whole 'nother
depressing mess.

-- 
 \         ?A politician is an animal which can sit on a fence and yet |
  `\                  keep both ears to the ground.? ?Henry L. Mencken |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From nospamjstroudmapson at mbi.ucla.edu  Wed Aug 12 01:32:50 2009
From: nospamjstroudmapson at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:32:50 -0700
Subject: hashability
In-Reply-To: <62618e10-44f0-406d-8446-efe78a9c101c@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<3c01fa6b-b6b7-4c02-aaf8-34e005355f31@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	
	<62618e10-44f0-406d-8446-efe78a9c101c@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Asun Friere wrote:
> On Aug 12, 12:15 pm, James Stroud  wrote:
> 
>> I realize I left out my use. The intent of the function is to flag
>> objects that will make useful keys for a persistent dictionary. The
>> {C():4}[C()] example demonstrates why I want to avoid certain types of
>> keys--I don't want users to do things like {C():4, C():4}, which python
>> happily allows but falls apart at the level of persistence.
> 
> What am I missing here?  How, in terms of persistence, is {C():4, C():
> 4} conceptually different from {'spam':4, 'ham':4}?

You should be more imaginative.


From nospamjstroudmapson at mbi.ucla.edu  Wed Aug 12 01:33:50 2009
From: nospamjstroudmapson at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:33:50 -0700
Subject: hashability
In-Reply-To: <77eda964-a6ee-496b-9c5f-5391663099e0@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<77eda964-a6ee-496b-9c5f-5391663099e0@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Asun Friere wrote:
> Perhaps the best solution would be for the unitiated to correct their
> misaprehensions

Can you come give a class to my users?


From nospamjstroudmapson at mbi.ucla.edu  Wed Aug 12 01:51:12 2009
From: nospamjstroudmapson at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:51:12 -0700
Subject: Frustrated with scopes
In-Reply-To: <28f6f8e1-2689-4ff3-b453-e6c8859d2c43@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
References: <28f6f8e1-2689-4ff3-b453-e6c8859d2c43@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

andrew cooke wrote:
> Is there a way to make this work (currently scope and join are
> undefined at runtime when the inner class attributes are defined):
> 
> class _StreamFactory(object):
> 
>     @staticmethod
>     def __call__(lines, source, join=''.join):
> 
>         class Line(object):
> 
>             __source = source
>             __join = join
> [...]


It would be helpful if you were to describe the type of behavior you expect.

I assume you will return the newly created Line class when you call an 
instance of _StreamFactory? There may be some things about the above 
that you might be overlooking:

1. __call__ does not supersede the __init__ constructor of _StreamFactory.
2. __source and __join are name-mangled in later versions of python. 
They will be attributes of the returned Line class named _Line_source 
and _Line_join respectively.

Rather than make _StreamFactory a class, you will probably get the 
behavior you desire if you simply make it a function:

def stream_factory:
   class Line(object):
     __source = source
     __join = join
   # etc.
   return Line

And then don't forget that double underscores produce name mangling and 
you'll be set.

James




From petshmidt at googlemail.com  Wed Aug 12 01:52:50 2009
From: petshmidt at googlemail.com (Pet)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:52:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: better way?
References: <9899e909-509e-47d4-a8e5-f9d70e0b8827@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<78a18b9b-f29e-432f-9fe4-8c250cb08edb@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<87skfyjen8.fsf@golux.woodcraft.me.uk> 
	
Message-ID: <6733c8fe-9ef8-4010-9b23-27538e19d8ff@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On 11 Aug., 22:19, "Rami Chowdhury"  wrote:
> Ah, my apologies, I must have been getting it confused with ON UPDATE ?
> [things]. Thanks for correcting me.
>
> On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:10:03 -0700, Matthew Woodcraft ?
>
>  wrote:
> > "Rami Chowdhury"  writes:
>
> >> IIRC Postgres has had ON DUPLICATE KEY UPDATE functionality longer than
> >> MySQL...
>
> > PostgreSQL does not have ON DUPLICATE KEY UPDATE.
>
> > The SQL standard way to do what the OP wants is MERGE. PostgreSQL
> > doesn't have that either.
>
> > -M-
>
> --
> Rami Chowdhury
> "Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" -- ?
> Hanlon's Razor
> 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)

So, I'm doing it in right way?
What about building columns? map(lambda s: s + ' = %s', fields)
Is that o.k.?

thanks


From chris at rebertia.com  Wed Aug 12 01:52:51 2009
From: chris at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 01:52:51 -0400
Subject: hashability
In-Reply-To: <62618e10-44f0-406d-8446-efe78a9c101c@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<3c01fa6b-b6b7-4c02-aaf8-34e005355f31@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	
	<62618e10-44f0-406d-8446-efe78a9c101c@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908112252l758c32b9u701daf09a7810a09@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/11 Asun Friere :
> On Aug 12, 12:15?pm, James Stroud  wrote:
>
>> I realize I left out my use. The intent of the function is to flag
>> objects that will make useful keys for a persistent dictionary. The
>> {C():4}[C()] example demonstrates why I want to avoid certain types of
>> keys--I don't want users to do things like {C():4, C():4}, which python
>> happily allows but falls apart at the level of persistence.
>
> What am I missing here? ?How, in terms of persistence, is {C():4, C():
> 4} conceptually different from {'spam':4, 'ham':4}?

Thought Experiment:
Consider, for each dict, the case of pickling it twice to 2 separate files.
When loaded from both files into the same program, the spam-ham dicts
will work as expected between each other.
The dicts with C()s will not. For example, assuming the unpickled
dicts are `cs1` and `cs2`, cs1[cs2.keys()[0]] will raise KeyError.

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Wed Aug 12 02:06:13 2009
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (greg)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 18:06:13 +1200
Subject: Bug in format specification in Python 3?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7ef4dkF26f4duU1@mid.individual.net>

Robert Dailey wrote:

> I notice that the '0x' portion is counted in the width, which was
> specified as 8. This seems wrong to me. Is this by design? If so, why?

Yes, it's the total field width. This is consistent with
the other formats, in which it includes decimal points,
signs, etc.

If you don't want that, then write the format string as

   'This is a hex number: 0x{:08x}'

-- 
Greg


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Wed Aug 12 02:17:06 2009
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (greg)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 18:17:06 +1200
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
In-Reply-To: <83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7ef51uF2g36t5U1@mid.individual.net>

rurpy at yahoo.com wrote:
> Such a reorg is not a simple matter
> of moving a file from here to there.  It will require a lot
> moving about of sections and a lot of word-smithing to glue
> them back together again in a coherent way.

Concerning this particular issue, not everyone would
agree that the doc sections in question are misplaced.

In Python the distinction between builtin and library
types is fairly blurry. There are advantages to having
them all documented in one place -- when looking for
info about a type, you don't have to try to guess
whether it's considered built-in or not to know which
manual to look in.

-- 
Greg


From nospamjstroudmapson at mbi.ucla.edu  Wed Aug 12 02:17:08 2009
From: nospamjstroudmapson at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 23:17:08 -0700
Subject: Frustrated with scopes
In-Reply-To: 
References: <28f6f8e1-2689-4ff3-b453-e6c8859d2c43@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

James Stroud wrote:
 > def stream_factory:
 >   class Line(object):
 >     __source = source
 >     __join = join
 >   # etc.
 >   return Line
 >

of course I meant "def stream_factory(lines, source, join=''.join):"

James



From afriere at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Aug 12 02:18:59 2009
From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 23:18:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: hashability
References: 
	<3c01fa6b-b6b7-4c02-aaf8-34e005355f31@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	
	<62618e10-44f0-406d-8446-efe78a9c101c@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 12, 3:32?pm, James Stroud 
wrote:

> You should be more imaginative.

I'm by no means discounting that there might be some actual problem
you're trying to solve here, but I honestly can't see it.

There really is no need to get personal about this, so rather than
asking for a level of imagination from me, (which I apparently lack),
please just explain to me how {one_instance_of_a_hashable_class : val,
another_instance_of_a_hashable_class :val} is conceptually different
{one_instance_of_class_str: val, another_instance_of_class_str: val},
in terms of persistence.

If I am missing something here, I would actually like to know.  If on
the other hand, I'm not, then rather at taking umbrage, you might want
instead to save yourself the effort of solving a non-existent problem?

> Can you come give a class to my users?

No.

However, I think it's fairly central to the notion of a class that it
is a template for creating different instances which themselves have a
unique identity.  And that subsequent calls to a class' constructor
ought to create unique instances of that class (subject perhaps to
implementation tricks such as interning).  If it is not obvious that {C
():4}[C()] invovles subsequent calls to C's constructor, then that
very example is itself didactic.


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Wed Aug 12 02:25:04 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 02:25:04 -0400
Subject: hashability
In-Reply-To: <62618e10-44f0-406d-8446-efe78a9c101c@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<3c01fa6b-b6b7-4c02-aaf8-34e005355f31@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	
	<62618e10-44f0-406d-8446-efe78a9c101c@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908112325h2610d261x487dd62caed57172@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/11 Asun Friere :
> On Aug 12, 12:15?pm, James Stroud  wrote:
>
>> I realize I left out my use. The intent of the function is to flag
>> objects that will make useful keys for a persistent dictionary. The
>> {C():4}[C()] example demonstrates why I want to avoid certain types of
>> keys--I don't want users to do things like {C():4, C():4}, which python
>> happily allows but falls apart at the level of persistence.
>
> What am I missing here? ?How, in terms of persistence, is {C():4, C():
> 4} conceptually different from {'spam':4, 'ham':4}?

Consider the case of pickling the data twice to 2 separate files.
When loaded from both files into the same program, the spam-ham dicts
will work as expected.
The C()s will not. For cs1[cs2.keys()[0]] will raise KeyError.

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Wed Aug 12 02:26:31 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 02:26:31 -0400
Subject: hashability
In-Reply-To: <50697b2c0908112325h2610d261x487dd62caed57172@mail.gmail.com>
References: 
	<3c01fa6b-b6b7-4c02-aaf8-34e005355f31@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	
	<62618e10-44f0-406d-8446-efe78a9c101c@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<50697b2c0908112325h2610d261x487dd62caed57172@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908112326q7908190btff3352979a02dc4f@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 2:25 AM, Chris Rebert wrote:
> 2009/8/11 Asun Friere :
>> On Aug 12, 12:15?pm, James Stroud  wrote:

Apologies for the possible repeated post. Gmail failed to mark the
draft as sent for some reason.

- Chris


From afriere at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Aug 12 02:29:41 2009
From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 23:29:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: hashability
References: 
	<3c01fa6b-b6b7-4c02-aaf8-34e005355f31@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	
	<62618e10-44f0-406d-8446-efe78a9c101c@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <3a07642d-7876-4939-9c05-f09545afd41a@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 12, 3:52?pm, Chris Rebert  wrote:

> Thought Experiment:
> Consider, for each dict, the case of pickling it twice to 2 separate files.
> When loaded from both files into the same program, the spam-ham dicts
> will work as expected between each other.
> The dicts with C()s will not. For example, assuming the unpickled
> dicts are `cs1` and `cs2`, cs1[cs2.keys()[0]] will raise KeyError.
>

Aha!

cheers.



From dstanek at dstanek.com  Wed Aug 12 02:31:55 2009
From: dstanek at dstanek.com (David Stanek)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 02:31:55 -0400
Subject: hashability
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<3c01fa6b-b6b7-4c02-aaf8-34e005355f31@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	
	<62618e10-44f0-406d-8446-efe78a9c101c@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 2:18 AM, Asun Friere wrote:
> On Aug 12, 3:32?pm, James Stroud 
> wrote:
>
>> You should be more imaginative.
>
> I'm by no means discounting that there might be some actual problem
> you're trying to solve here, but I honestly can't see it.

How about a cache? Hashing by id means nothing across machines or even
process runs on the same machine.

-- 
David
blog: http://www.traceback.org
twitter: http://twitter.com/dstanek


From nospamjstroudmapson at mbi.ucla.edu  Wed Aug 12 02:52:17 2009
From: nospamjstroudmapson at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 23:52:17 -0700
Subject: hashability
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<3c01fa6b-b6b7-4c02-aaf8-34e005355f31@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	
	<62618e10-44f0-406d-8446-efe78a9c101c@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

Asun Friere wrote:
> On Aug 12, 3:32 pm, James Stroud 
> wrote:
> 
>> You should be more imaginative.
> 
> I'm by no means discounting that there might be some actual problem
> you're trying to solve here, but I honestly can't see it.
> 
> There really is no need to get personal about this, so rather than
> asking for a level of imagination from me, (which I apparently lack),
> please just explain to me how {one_instance_of_a_hashable_class : val,
> another_instance_of_a_hashable_class :val} is conceptually different
> {one_instance_of_class_str: val, another_instance_of_class_str: val},
> in terms of persistence.

Sorry for being a twit. This list used to be quite nice but some people 
on this list got pretty abrasive. I couldn't tell you weren't one of 
these abrasive people from your post. I stopped giving the benefit of 
the doubt many moons ago and promptly enter attack mode at the slightest 
hint of abrasiveness. My attitude probably exacerbates the problem--but 
it sure does make me feel better.


Anyway, I think the problem has been described better than I'm able, but 
once an object goes to the file system, one can not take its hash value 
for granted. It is not possible to rely on the ability to recreate any 
arbitrary object de-novo and use the recreation as a key in proxy for 
the original object. I'm after this "je ne sais pas que l'appeler" 
quality of objects to use as keys (or to generate keys) for persistent 
dictionaries. Carl Banks suggested that this quality should not be 
called "hashable", so I'm calling it "keyable".


From garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk  Wed Aug 12 02:58:43 2009
From: garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk (garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 06:58:43 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: create shell history with python
References: 
	<7ee8saF2e47vaU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: 

Diez B. Roggisch  wrote:
> Joel Juvenal Rivera Rivera schrieb:
>> I been thinking how to make a 'bash like history shell' in python,
>> i don't know if with stdin and stdout i can accomplish this or do i
>> need something like curses and stuff like that, anyway im start to
>> figure this out.
>> Does any body has try this? or have any interesting idea?
> 
> Don't waste your time, use IPython :)
> 
> http://ipython.scipy.org/moin/
> 

for python 2.x only, unfortunately

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------
| Radovan Garab?k http://kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk/~garabik/ |
| __..--^^^--..__    garabik @ kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk     |
 -----------------------------------------------------------
Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus.
Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Aug 12 03:08:06 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 12 Aug 2009 07:08:06 GMT
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<3611ca55-79a6-4336-9041-07d0893789f7@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
	<0447e8a2-508d-45b2-8d15-da0cc2a56b5f@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	
	 <0291a21a$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<8152546e-1f6f-4ea5-9b10-e1d9b5ffdab8@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	
	<1a0e1e6d-d902-4df7-8d35-850c4f62cc9c@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:48:24 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:

> In any case, my argument has consistently been that Python should have
> treated undefined escape sequences consistently as fatal errors, 

A reasonable position to take. I disagree with it, but it is certainly 
reasonable.


> not as warnings.

I don't know what language you're talking about here, because non-special 
escape sequences in Python aren't either errors or warnings:

>>> print "ab\cd"
ab\cd

No warning is made, because it's not considered an error that requires a 
warning. This matches the behaviour of other languages, including C and 
bash.



-- 
Steven


From afriere at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Aug 12 03:13:50 2009
From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 00:13:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: hashability
References: 
	<3c01fa6b-b6b7-4c02-aaf8-34e005355f31@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	
	<62618e10-44f0-406d-8446-efe78a9c101c@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
Message-ID: <108fe8d0-ec3c-49f4-b825-9303ac6aa8a9@32g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 12, 4:52?pm, James Stroud 
wrote:

> Sorry for being a twit.

Don't be ridiculous.  You haven't been a twit, I have!

I've just had a complete "blonde" moment here (with apologies to any
real blondes out there.  My only excuse is that I've been up to 02:30
for the last three nights running (or maybe it's the ageing process, a
cerebrovascular accident or something).

I just checked a class I recently wrote specifically for the purposes
of hashing a dict (in case I had made this error IRL).  Wouldn't you
know it, it's subclassed to tuple, and defines both __eq__ and
__cmp__.  Luckily when I write production code the guy who knows what
he's doing takes over.  And this in an app which compares keys from
different pickled files (representing DB holdings)?!  Of all things.

I can't believe how unfathomably stupid I've been.  I'm extremely
embarassed.  I think I'll just go out and shoot myself now.  Or get
some sleep.


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Wed Aug 12 03:18:03 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 09:18:03 +0200
Subject: ElementTree - Howto access text within XML tag element...
In-Reply-To: 
References: <1ad8dac1-8fff-493a-a197-d847e7b6a761@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<7ecm77F2fbf71U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
Message-ID: <4a826cac$0$31870$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>

cmalmqui wrote:
> tree = etree.parse('10_07_2009 16_48_00_history.tcx')
> root = tree.getroot()
> 
> elem = root[0][0]
> 
> # iterate over all laps
> for i in range(1, len(elem)-1):

Note that you can iterate over elements as in

	for lap_element in elem:
	    # ...

Then use

	record = lap.find("recordtagname")

to find things inside the subtree. You can also use XPath-like expressions
such as

	all_intersting_elements =
		lap.findall("sometag/somechild//somedescendant")

Stefan


From afriere at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Aug 12 03:25:06 2009
From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 00:25:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: hashability
References: 
	
Message-ID: <25e7ee06-233d-4c8d-b5a9-384a4f5f1694@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 12, 5:14?pm, Dennis Lee Bieber  wrote:

> c1 = C()
> c2 = C()
>
> {c1:4}[c2]
>
> to behave? That IS the equivalent of your statement -- two instances are
> two distinctly different entities...
>

Thankyou, that is EXACTLY the mistake I made that sent me off into
lunacy.

At the risk of further embarassment, the answer is that one would
expect it to behave analogously to:

c1 = int(x)
c2 = int(x)

{c1:4}[c2]

Or is my brain still on vacation?


From nospamjstroudmapson at mbi.ucla.edu  Wed Aug 12 03:33:01 2009
From: nospamjstroudmapson at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 00:33:01 -0700
Subject: hashability
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 17:54:36 -0700, James Stroud 
> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
> 
>>    ...
>>    py> {C():4}[C()]
>>    ------------------------------------------------------------
>>    Traceback (most recent call last):
>>      File "", line 1, in 
>>    : <__main__.C object at 0xe21610>
>>
>> The basis for the exception is that the two instances do not have the 
>> same hash() although conceptually they might seem equal to the 
>> unitiated. Were I to re-design python, I'd throw an exception in this 
>> case because of the ill-defined behavior one might expect if a C() 
>> serves as a key for a dict.
>>
> 	"A" C()... How would you expect
> 
> c1 = C()
> c2 = C()
> 
> {c1:4}[c2] 
> 
> to behave?


This seems like a subjective question. I think I demonstrated how it 
*does* behave, which is purely objective--and I know I can't do anything 
about that. But the subjective answer to the subjective question is that 
I would like an exception to be raised when the dictionary is 
constructed. I know an exception doesn't get thrown in the current 
incarnation of the python language. That is the objective reality of the 
situation which affronts my subjective notions of how reality should be.

That IS the equivalent of your statement -- two instances are
> two distinctly different entities...

Tell that to two different machines on two different days. Then bet the 
life of yourself and your nearest and dearest family on that fact and 
see whether you really want to take a hash value for granted. If a 
property of the python language fails the "bet the lives of your nearest 
and dearest on a consistent result" test, I call it "ill defined" and, 
subjectively speaking, I prefer exceptions to be thrown--And, by damned, 
I'll throw them myself if I have to.

"If it saves one life, it's worth it all."

James




From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Aug 12 03:34:33 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 12 Aug 2009 07:34:33 GMT
Subject: hashability
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 17:54:36 -0700, James Stroud wrote:

> Hello All,
> 
> I wrote the function to test hashability of arbitrary objects. My reason
> is that the built-in python (2.5) hashing is too permissive for some
> uses. A symptom of this permissiveness comes from the ability to
> successfully hash() arbitrary objects:

No it doesn't.


>>> hash([])
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
TypeError: list objects are unhashable

Python successfully hashes *non*-arbitrary objects, including those that 
inherit from object.



>    py> class C(object): pass
>    ...
>    py> {C():4}[C()]
>    ------------------------------------------------------------
>    Traceback (most recent call last):
>      File "", line 1, in 
>    : <__main__.C object at 0xe21610>

Why would you expect that to succeed? The object you are using as the key 
is a different instance than the object you are looking up. Since your 
instances don't even compare equal, why would you expect them to hash 
equal?

>>> C() == C()
False



> The basis for the exception is that the two instances do not have the
> same hash() although conceptually they might seem equal to the
> unitiated. 

Yes, well, the ignorant and uninitiated frequently make mistakes. I feel 
your pain.



> Were I to re-design python, I'd throw an exception in this
> case because of the ill-defined behavior one might expect if a C()
> serves as a key for a dict.

It's not ill-defined, it's a perfectly reasonable design you just don't 
happen to like. It's quite useful for some.


> To prevent users of one of my libraries from falling into this and
> similar traps (which have potentially problematic consequences), I came
> up with this test for hashability:

That's not a test for hashability. That's a test for hashability and 
equality testing together.


> def hashable(k):
>    try:
>      hash(k)
>    except TypeError:
>      good = False
>    else:
>      good = (hasattr(k, '__hash__') and
>              (hasattr(k, '__eq__') or hasattr(k, '__cmp__')))
>    return good

The test for __hash__ is redundant, given that hash() has already 
succeeded.

It will wrongly reject classes that deliberately don't define equality, 
for whatever reason, and that *expect* the behaviour you are treating as 
an error.



> It works as I would like for most of the cases I can invent:
> 
>    py> all(map(hashable, [1,1.0,"",(1,2,3)])) True
>    py> any(map(hashable, [None, [1,2], {}, C(), __import__('sys')]))
>    False

Well there you go -- why on earth would you prohibit None as a dictionary 
key??? That's a serious failure.



-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Aug 12 03:36:56 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 12 Aug 2009 07:36:56 GMT
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<3611ca55-79a6-4336-9041-07d0893789f7@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
	<0447e8a2-508d-45b2-8d15-da0cc2a56b5f@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	
	 <0291a21a$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<8152546e-1f6f-4ea5-9b10-e1d9b5ffdab8@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:20:52 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:

> On Aug 11, 2:00?pm, Steven D'Aprano  cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> 
>> > test.cpp:1:1: warning: unknown escape sequence '\y'
>>
>> Isn't that a warning, not a fatal error? So what does temp contain?
> 
> My "Annotated C++ Reference Manual" is packed, and surprisingly in
> Stroustrup's Third Edition, there is no mention of the issue in the
> entire 1,000 pages. But Microsoft to the rescue:
> 
>      If you want a backslash character to appear within a string, you
>      must type two backslashes (\\)
> 
> (From http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/69ze775t.aspx)

Should I assume that Microsoft's C++ compiler treats it as an error, not 
a warning? Or is is this *still* undefined behaviour, and MS C++ compiler 
will happily compile "ab\cd" whatever it feels like?

 
> The question of what any specific C++ does if you ignore the warning is
> irrelevant, as such behavior in C++ is almost *always* undefined. Hence
> the warning.

So a C++ compiler which follows Python's behaviour would be behaving 
within the language specifications.

I note that the bash shell, which claims to follow C semantics, also does 
what Python does:

$ echo $'a s\trin\g with escapes'
a s     rin\g with escapes


Explain to me again why we're treating underspecified C++ semantics, 
which may or may not do *exactly* what Python does, as if it were the One 
True Way of treating escape sequences?


-- 
Steven


From petshmidt at googlemail.com  Wed Aug 12 03:49:50 2009
From: petshmidt at googlemail.com (Pet)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 00:49:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: better way?
References: <9899e909-509e-47d4-a8e5-f9d70e0b8827@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<78a18b9b-f29e-432f-9fe4-8c250cb08edb@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <6126d193-5715-492f-8054-d9212bc6b87f@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On 12 Aug., 09:14, Dennis Lee Bieber  wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 11:45:50 -0700 (PDT), Pet 
> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>
> > Oh, forgotten to mention. It's PostGres
>
> ? ? ? ? Really? There are still installations of an RDBMS that predates the
> commonalization of SQL?
>
> ? ? ? ? I suspect you mean PostgreSQL -- it IS a different beast from the
> older Postgres.

O, yeah. Of course it is PostgreSQL

>
> ? ? ? ? In either event -- my old books don't show an "all in one" solution.
>
> ? ? ? ? Best answer is probably to create some stored procedures which you
> call instead of plain INSERT; the stored procedure could then do
> whatever is needed to check for a duplicate (actually the easiest, I'd
> think, would be: if primary key is supplied, it is an UPDATE; if primary
> key is NULL or not supplied, it is an insert and the primary key will be
> auto-generated).

I don't really like the idea of stored procedure, because query would
depend on existence of it then. On the other side, it looks like best
option.

>
> --
> ? ? ? ? Wulfraed ? ? ? ? Dennis Lee Bieber ? ? ? ? ? ? ? KD6MOG
> ? ? ? ? wlfr... at ix.netcom.com ? ? HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/



From chris at simplistix.co.uk  Wed Aug 12 03:52:09 2009
From: chris at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 08:52:09 +0100
Subject: httplib incredibly slow :-(
In-Reply-To: <4A81FDF5.6010508@simplistix.co.uk>
References: 	
	<4A81FDF5.6010508@simplistix.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4A8274A9.7000905@simplistix.co.uk>

Answering myself...

Chris Withers wrote:
>> In article ,
>> Chris Withers   wrote:
>>> Does anyone know of an alternative library for creating http requests 
>>> and getting their responses that's faster but hopefully has a similar 
>>> interface?
>>
>> PyCurl
> 
> This seems to be a wrapper around libcurl.
> 
> Does it work on Windows?

Not by my definition of work:

- there are no windows binaries for libcurl

- getting https support on windows seems pretty hit'n'miss:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/197444/building-libcurl-with-ssl-support-on-windows

I'm still reeling from what seems to be such a huge problem with httplib 
that seem to be largely ignored :-(

Chris

-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting
            - http://www.simplistix.co.uk


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Aug 12 03:58:59 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 12 Aug 2009 07:58:59 GMT
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:50:51 -0700, rurpy wrote:

>>> The issue tracker is fine for many things, but the process it provides
>>> is equivalent to peep-hole optimization.  How does one submit a
>>> tracker issue for something like the overall organization of the docs
>>> (for example, the mis-placement of things like data- types in the
>>> library manual rather than the language manual)?
>>
>> The same way you would submit a tracker issue for anything.
>>
>> "Documentation bug: Data types are misplaced in the library manual
>> instead of the language manual.
>>
>> Suggested alternative: move page docs.python.org/xyz.html to abc.html"
> 
> But that's the problem.  Such a reorg is not a simple matter of moving a
> file from here to there.  It will require a lot moving about of sections
> and a lot of word-smithing to glue them back together again in a
> coherent way.

That's no different from *any* major refactoring. The exact same problem 
exists for code as well as documentation. It's a solved problem for code, 
and it's a solved problem for documentation.

In some order:

Consensus that there is a problem that needs solving;
Volunteer(s) to do the work;
Somebody to take responsibility to check the changes in.


Sometimes, in the face of apathy or disagreement (which may very well be 
justified), you have to at least partly solve the problem *before* people 
will agree that it needed to be solved. Welcome to the real world.



> A tracker issue, even one that was fairly specific about how things
> should be reorganized but which did not provide all the needed changes
> (a large patch) would almost certainly be ignored or rejected.

Yes it would. Most patches are ignored, because the dev team are 
overworked, and if they don't see the need for a patch, they won't 
approve it.



> But
> providing a large patch raises two questions.  How likely is it to be be
> accepted? (Something anyone would want to know before investing the
> time.) And how to actually do the work needed to generate it (it could
> be a very large amount of work for an individual and I don't think it
> can be broken down into small independent issues.) How is one to test
> the waters as to acceptability, or solicit help, if one simply submits a
> tracker issue?

No, submitting a tracker issue is a necessary but not sufficient step. 
Without a tracker issue, you're very unlikely to have people agree to 
replace the existing docs with your docs, although a PEP would probably 
do it. (A PEP is significantly more effort than raising a tracker issue.)

You also have to get attention from those with check-in privileges. If 
they approve your patches, you're done. If they don't approve them, or 
fail to respond, you can try convincing them, or taking it to the Python-
Dev list and request somebody review your patches.

If you have no patches, perhaps because you're unwilling to invest the 
effort without a guarantee that it will be treated seriously, then you 
need to get some sort of consensus among the relevant people that the 
problem is worth solving.

Guess what? Sometimes others will disagree with you. What you see as the 
Worst. Docs. EVAR. may be seen as perfectly adequate, even excellent, by 
others. If this is the case, remember, Python isn't your product, you 
don't have veto over what goes into it. Feel free to publish your 
alternatives. Write a book. Go home and cry into your beer over it. 
Whatever. Sometimes you win, and sometimes you don't.

This is the same process whether dealing with code or documentation.


>> - if people are keen on a Python wiki, then by all means publish one,
>> just don't expect the Python dev team to build and manage it for you;
> 
> As luminous a Pythoneer as Fredrik Lundh set up a documentation wiki to
> collect user contributions but it has faded away.  If he couldn't pull
> it off then I'd say most other attempts without the backing of
> python.org are almost certainly doomed to failure.

Perhaps that's a good indication that a Python wiki *doesn't* fulfill a 
need in the community, and that despite what a few squeaky wheels think, 
the docs *are* doing a good job?



> As long as every "the docs
> sux" complaint is met here with the standard responses that I've
> mentioned, 

But they aren't met with such a so-called "standard response".


> rather than, "yes, they do have some problems, what do you
> think we should do about them?", 

We know that there are problems. We've said repeatedly that corrections 
and patches are welcome. We've repeatedly told you how to communicate 
your answer to the question of what should be done. None of this is good 
enough for you. I don't know what else you expect.


>> If you won't put in the effort, and you won't put in the money, then it
>> won't happen. Moaning that other people aren't putting in the money to
>> hire team of professional writers isn't productive, and moaning that
>> other people aren't putting in the effort to improve the docs isn't
>> either.
> 
> Eh?  I have a computer filled with software that I put no money or
> effort into, yet there it is.  

Ah yes, I'm sorry, I missed one other alternative: sit around and wait 
for somebody else to put in the money and/or effort.

> That some of us choose to
> invest it somewhere other than Python does not deprive of of our right
> to point out problems in Python when we note them.

Of course not. But it does mean that you won't be taken seriously, and 
you have no right to be taken seriously.



-- 
Steven


From jai_dgl at yahoo.co.in  Wed Aug 12 04:15:01 2009
From: jai_dgl at yahoo.co.in (Jey Simhan)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 01:15:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
Message-ID: <1144938511.2842753.1250064901163.JavaMail.app@ech3-cdn13.prod>

LinkedIn
------------



   
I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn.

- Jey

Learn more:
https://www.linkedin.com/e/isd/682391381/2q9uIjvU/


 
------
(c) 2009, LinkedIn Corporation

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From simon at brunningonline.net  Wed Aug 12 04:21:24 2009
From: simon at brunningonline.net (Simon Brunning)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 09:21:24 +0100
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
In-Reply-To: <461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> 
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8c7f10c60908120121v4bbf9040h9da68a650ef48566@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/11 Robert Dailey :
> On Aug 11, 3:40?pm, Bearophile  wrote:
>> There are gals too here.
>
> It's a figure of speech. And besides, why would I want programming
> advice from a woman? lol. Thanks for the help.

Give the attitudes still prevalent in our industry (cf
 and many more), I'm sorry to say that I
don't think this is funny.

-- 
Cheers,
Simon B.


From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Wed Aug 12 04:43:09 2009
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 10:43:09 +0200
Subject: Scraping Wikipedia with Python
References: 
	<4a81b6f0$0$1590$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	
Message-ID: 

* Dotan Cohen (Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:29:40 +0300)
> > ? ?Wikipedia has an API for computer access. ?See
> >
> > ? ? ? ?http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API
> >
> 
> Yes, I am aware of this as well. Does anyone know of a python class
> for easily interacting with it, or do I need to roll my own.

http://pypi.python.org/pypi?%3Aaction=search&term=wikipedia ?

Thorsten 


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Wed Aug 12 04:45:51 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 10:45:51 +0200
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
In-Reply-To: <0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <200908121045.51808.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Tuesday 11 August 2009 19:53:16 Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> You want community input into the docs, but you're not willing to give
> that input except to bitch and moan and sook that the tracker is no good.

wtf does the verb  "sook" mean?

I find:

sook
??/s?k/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [sook] Show IPA
Use sook in a Sentence
?noun
1. 	Australia and New Zealand. a timid, cowardly person, esp. a young person; 
crybaby.
?interjection
2. 	Midland U.S. (used to summon cows from the pasture).
Origin:
1890?95; prob. from earlier sense ?calf reared by hand,? perh. suck(-calf), 
with sp. repr. N England, Scots pron. of suck (but earliest cited pron. of 
sook is (so?o?k))

Sometimes English drives me crazy.

- Hendrik


From andreengels at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 04:54:05 2009
From: andreengels at gmail.com (Andre Engels)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 10:54:05 +0200
Subject: looping through values in a dictionary and appending to a list
In-Reply-To: <4A817D6B0200008C00014A9B@redhorse.forestry.uga.edu>
References: <4A817D6B0200008C00014A9B@redhorse.forestry.uga.edu>
Message-ID: <6faf39c90908120154p41ac5211p64d7378d7e908190@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 8:17 PM, Krishna
Pacifici wrote:
> Nevermind,
> got it.
>
> Sorry.
>
>>>> Krishna Pacifici 08/11/09 2:12 PM >>>
> Hi,
> I want to append the values of a dictionary to a list.? I have a dictionary
> sec_dict_clean and I want to append the values to a list, but am having a
> hard time looping through the values in the dictionary.
>
> I have tried something like this:
> lista=[]
> for i in sec_dict_clean.values():
> ??? for j in sec_dict_clean.values()[i]:
> ??? ??? lista.append(sec_dict_clean.values()[i])
>
> But I keep on getting an error:
> TypeError: list indices must be integers
>
> Any ideas on how to loop through values in a dictionary?

lista=[]
for value in sec_dict_clean.values():
    lista.append(value)

but even simpler would be:

lista = sec_dict_clean.values()


-- 
Andr? Engels, andreengels at gmail.com


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Wed Aug 12 05:04:35 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:04:35 +0200
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
In-Reply-To: <461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <200908121104.35744.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Tuesday 11 August 2009 22:52:34 Robert Dailey wrote:
> On Aug 11, 3:40?pm, Bearophile  wrote:
> > Robert Dailey:
> > > This breaks the flow of scope. Would you guys solve this
> > > problem by moving failMsg into global scope?
> > > Perhaps through some other type of syntax?
> >
> > There are gals too here.
> > This may
> > help:http://docs.python.org/library/textwrap.html#textwrap.dedent
> >
> > Bye,
> > bearophile
>
> It's a figure of speech. And besides, why would I want programming
> advice from a woman? lol. Thanks for the help.

Well it may come as a surprise to you, but it was a woman who
wrote one of the first compilers.

She became an Admiral in the US navy as a result.

If I recall correctly, her name was Grace Hooper.

How many compilers have you written from scratch,
without a compiler to help you?

:-)

- Hendrik



From fzgillani at live.com  Wed Aug 12 05:29:58 2009
From: fzgillani at live.com (fakhar Gillani)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:29:58 +0200
Subject: loops for ffmpeg CLI in python
Message-ID: 


 

Hi,

 

I am a begineer in Python. Actually I am encoding video files with different bitrates using ffmpeg CLI. I wanted to ask you that how can I make loops so that I can vary the bitrates in the CLI of ffmpeg??

 

I want to bulid a loop for the command below where i just want to vary the -vb parameter i.e. 10M. 

 

ffmpeg.exe -i sample.avi -y -f h264 -vb 10M -r 25 encoded_1000_0-05.h264

 

I have tried to make simple loops but it doest work:(

 

Can anyone here help me out?

 

Regards,

Gillani

 

 

_________________________________________________________________
Share your memories online with anyone you want.
http://www.microsoft.com/middleeast/windows/windowslive/products/photos-share.aspx?tab=1
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From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Aug 12 05:32:01 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 12 Aug 2009 09:32:01 GMT
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<3611ca55-79a6-4336-9041-07d0893789f7@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
	<0447e8a2-508d-45b2-8d15-da0cc2a56b5f@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	
	<494d80f1-0b47-468c-bdd9-7a087f6d915c@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:29:43 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:

> I need to preface this entire post with the fact that I've already used
> ALL of the arguments that you've provided on my friend before I ever
> even came here with the topic, and my own arguments on why Python can be
> considered to be doing the right thing on this issue didn't even
> convince ME, much less him. When I can't even convince myself with an
> argument I'm making, then you know there's a problem with it!


I hear all your arguments, and to play Devil's Advocate I repeat them, 
and they don't convince me either. So by your logic, there's obviously a 
problem with your arguments as well!

That problem basically boils down to a deep-seated philosophical 
disagreement over which philosophy a language should follow in regard to 
backslash escapes:

"Anything not explicitly permitted is forbidden"

versus  

"Anything not explicitly forbidden is permitted"

Python explicitly permits all escape sequences, with well-defined 
behaviour, with the only ones forbidden being those explicitly forbidden:

* hex escapes with invalid hex digits;

* oct escapes with invalid oct digits;

* Unicode named escapes with unknown names;

* 16- and 32-bit Unicode escapes with invalid hex digits.

C++ apparently forbids all escape sequences, with unspecified behaviour 
if you use a forbidden sequence, except for a handful of explicitly 
permitted sequences.

That's not better, it's merely different.

Actually, that's not true -- that the C++ standard forbids a thing, but 
leaves the consequences of doing that thing unspecified, is clearly a Bad 
Thing.



[...]

>> Apart from the lack of warning, what actually is the difference between
>> Python's behavior and C++'s behavior?
> 
> That question makes just about as much sense as, "Apart from the lack of
> a fatal error, what actually is the difference between Python's behavior
> and C++'s?"

This is what I get:

[steve ~]$ cat test.cc
#include 
int main(int argc, char* argv[])
{
std::cout << "x\yz" << std::endl;
return 0;
}
[steve ~]$ g++ test.cc -o test
test.cc:4:14: warning: unknown escape sequence '\y'
[steve at soy ~]$ ./test
xyz


So on at least one machine in the world, C++ simply strips out 
backslashes that it doesn't recognise, leaving the suffix. Unfortunately, 
we can't rely on that, because C++ is underspecified. Fortunately this is 
not a problem with Python, which does completely specify the behaviour of 
escape sequences so there are no surprises. 



[...]

>> I disagree with your sense of aesthetics. I think that having to write
>> \\y when I want \y just to satisfy a bondage-and-discipline compiler is
>> ugly. That's not to deny that B&D isn't useful on occasion, but in this
>> case I believe the benefit is negligible, and so even a tiny cost is
>> not worth the pain.
> 
> EXPLICIT IS BETTER THAN IMPLICIT.

Quoting the Zen without understanding (especially shouting) doesn't 
impress anyone. There's nothing implicit about escape sequences. \y is 
perfectly explicit. Look Ma, there's a backslash, and a y, it gives a 
backslash and a y!

Implicit has an actual meaning. You shouldn't use it as a mere term of 
opprobrium for anything you don't like.



>> > (2) That argument disagrees with the Python reference manual, which
>> > explicitly states that "unrecognized escape sequences are left in the
>> > string unchanged", and that the purpose for doing so is because it
>> > "is useful when debugging".
>>
>> How does it disagree? \y in the source code mapping to \y in the string
>> object is the sequence being left unchanged. And the usefulness of
>> doing so is hardly a disagreement over the fact that it does so.
> 
> Because you've stated that "\y" is a legal escape sequence, while the
> Python Reference Manual explicitly states that it is an "unrecognized
> escape sequence", and that such "unrecognized escape sequences" are
> sources of bugs.

There's that reading comprehension problem again.

Unrecognised != illegal.

"Useful for debugging" != "source of bugs". If they were equal, we could 
fix an awful lot of bugs by throwing away our debugging tools.

Here's the URL to the relevant page:
http://www.python.org/doc/2.5.2/ref/strings.html

It seems to me that the behaviour the Python designers were looking to 
avoid was the case where the coder accidentally inserted a backslash in 
the wrong place, and the language stripped the backslash out, e.g.:

Wanted "a\bcd" but accidentally typed "ab\cd" instead, and got "abcd".

(This is what Bash does by design, and at least some C/C++ compilers do, 
perhaps by accident, perhaps by design.)

In that case, with no obvious backslash, the user may not even be aware 
that there was a problem:

s = "ab\cd"  # assume the backslash is silently discarded
assert len(s) == 4
assert s[3] == 'c'
assert '\\' not in s

All of these tests would wrongly pass, but with Python's behaviour of 
leaving the backslash in, they would all fail, and the string is visually 
distinctive (it has an obvious backslash in it).

Now, if you consider that \c should be an error, then obviously it would 
be even better if "ab\cd" would raise a SyntaxError. But why consider \c 
to be an error?



[invalid hex escape sequences]

>> > What makes it "illegal". As far as I can tell, it's just another
>> > "unrecognized escape sequence".
>>
>> No, it's recognized, because \x is the prefix for an hexadecimal escape
>> code. And it's illegal, because it's missing the actual hexadecimal
>> digits.
> 
> So? Why does that make it "illegal" rather than merely "unrecognized?"

Because the empty string is not a legal pair of hex digits.

In '\y', the suffix y is a legal character, but it isn't recognized as a 
"special" character.

In '\x', the suffix '' is not a pair of hex digits. Since hex-escapes are 
documented as requiring a pair of hex digits, this is an error.


[...]
> Because anyone with common sense will agree that "\y" is an illegal
> escape sequence. 

"No True Scotsman would design a language that behaves like that!!!!"

Why should it be illegal? It seems like a perfectly valid escape sequence 
to me, so long as the semantics are specified explicitly.



[...]

>> > It may not be a complex form of DWIMing, but it's still DWIMing a
>> > bit.  Python is figuring that if I typed "\z", then either I must
>> > have really meant to type "\\z",
>>
>> Nope, not in the least. Python NEVER EVER EVER tries to guess what you
>> mean.
> 
> Neither does Perl. That doesn't mean that Perl isn't often DWIMy.

Fine, but we're not discussing Perl, we're discussing Python. Perl's DWIM-
iness is irrelevant.



>> This is *exactly* like C++, except that in Python the semantics of \y
>> and \\y are identical. Python doesn't guess what you mean, it *imposes*
>> a meaning on the escape sequence. You just don't like that meaning.
> 
> That's because I don't like things that are ill-conceived.

And yet you like C++... go figure *wink*


-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Aug 12 05:39:16 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 12 Aug 2009 09:39:16 GMT
Subject: hashability
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 00:33:01 -0700, James Stroud wrote:

> Tell that to two different machines on two different days. Then bet the
> life of yourself and your nearest and dearest family on that fact and
> see whether you really want to take a hash value for granted. 

As far as I know, Python doesn't make any guarantees about hashes being 
repeatable on different machines, different versions, or even different 
runs of the interpreter.


> If a
> property of the python language fails the "bet the lives of your nearest
> and dearest on a consistent result" test, I call it "ill defined" and,
> subjectively speaking, I prefer exceptions to be thrown--And, by damned,
> I'll throw them myself if I have to.
> 
> "If it saves one life, it's worth it all."

Depends on the life, and the cost. Would you pay a million dollars from 
your own pocket to save the life of a 119 year old with advanced lung 
cancer, a bad heart, and a raging infection of Ebola, from choking on a 
fish bone?

What if the effort of saving that one life kills two lives? Opportunity 
costs are costs too.




-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Aug 12 05:40:25 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 12 Aug 2009 09:40:25 GMT
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 10:45:51 +0200, Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:

> On Tuesday 11 August 2009 19:53:16 Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
>> You want community input into the docs, but you're not willing to give
>> that input except to bitch and moan and sook that the tracker is no
>> good.
> 
> wtf does the verb  "sook" mean?
> 
> I find:
> 
> sook
> ??/s?k/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [sook] Show IPA
> Use sook in a Sentence
> ?noun
> 1. 	Australia and New Zealand. a timid, cowardly person, esp. a young
> person; crybaby.


That's the one. It's also used as a verb.




-- 
Steven


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Aug 12 06:01:55 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:01:55 +0100
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
In-Reply-To: <200908121104.35744.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
References: 	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<200908121104.35744.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
Message-ID: <4A829313.5010709@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:
> On Tuesday 11 August 2009 22:52:34 Robert Dailey wrote:
>> On Aug 11, 3:40 pm, Bearophile  wrote:
>>> Robert Dailey:
>>>> This breaks the flow of scope. Would you guys solve this
>>>> problem by moving failMsg into global scope?
>>>> Perhaps through some other type of syntax?
>>> There are gals too here.
>>> This may
>>> help:http://docs.python.org/library/textwrap.html#textwrap.dedent
>>>
>>> Bye,
>>> bearophile
>> It's a figure of speech. And besides, why would I want programming
>> advice from a woman? lol. Thanks for the help.
> 
> Well it may come as a surprise to you, but it was a woman who
> wrote one of the first compilers.
> 
> She became an Admiral in the US navy as a result.
> 
> If I recall correctly, her name was Grace Hooper.
> 
Grace Hopper. The saying "It's easier to ask forgiveness than it is to
get permission" is attributed to her.

> How many compilers have you written from scratch,
> without a compiler to help you?
> 
> :-)
> 



From mdekauwe at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 06:15:30 2009
From: mdekauwe at gmail.com (Martin)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 03:15:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: matching patterns after regex?
Message-ID: <61bef795-f146-4bdd-b5b3-a212e6d9197c@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I have a string (see below) and ideally I would like to pull out the
decimal number which follows the bounding coordinate information. For
example ideal from this string I would return...

s = '\nGROUP                  = ARCHIVEDMETADATA\n
GROUPTYPE            = MASTERGROUP\n\n  GROUP                  =
BOUNDINGRECTANGLE\n\n    OBJECT                 =
NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n      NUM_VAL              = 1\n
VALUE                = 19.9999999982039\n    END_OBJECT             =
NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n\n    OBJECT                 =
SOUTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n      NUM_VAL              = 1\n
VALUE                = 9.99999999910197\n    END_OBJECT             =
SOUTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n\n    OBJECT                 =
EASTBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n      NUM_VAL              = 1\n
VALUE                = 10.6506458717851\n    END_OBJECT             =
EASTBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n\n    OBJECT                 =
WESTBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n      NUM_VAL              = 1\n
VALUE                = 4.3188348375893e-15\n    END_OBJECT
= WESTBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n\n  END_GROUP


NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE = 19.9999999982039
SOUTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE = 9.99999999910197
EASTBOUNDINGCOORDINATE = 10.6506458717851
WESTBOUNDINGCOORDINATE = 4.3188348375893e-15

so far I have only managed to extract the numbers by doing re.findall
("[\d.]*\d", s), which returns

['1',
 '19.9999999982039',
 '1',
 '9.99999999910197',
 '1',
 '10.6506458717851',
 '1',
 '4.3188348375893',
 '15',
etc.

Now the first problem that I can see is that my string match chops off
the "e-15" part and I am not sure how to incorporate the potential for
that in my pattern match. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I
could also match this? Ideally I would have a statement which printed
the number between the two bounding coordinate strings for example

NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n      NUM_VAL              = 1\n
VALUE                = 19.9999999982039\n    END_OBJECT             =
NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n\n

Something that matched "NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE" and printed the
decimal number before it hit the next string
"NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE". But I am not sure how to do this. any
suggestions would be appreciated.

Many thanks

Martin


From phd at phd.pp.ru  Wed Aug 12 06:24:53 2009
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:24:53 +0400
Subject: SQLObject 0.11.0
Message-ID: <20090812102452.GE5602@phd.pp.ru>

Hello!

I'm pleased to announce version 0.11.0, the first stable release of 0.11 branch
of SQLObject.


What is SQLObject
=================

SQLObject is an object-relational mapper.  Your database tables are described
as classes, and rows are instances of those classes.  SQLObject is meant to be
easy to use and quick to get started with.

SQLObject supports a number of backends: MySQL, PostgreSQL, SQLite,
Firebird, Sybase, MSSQL and MaxDB (also known as SAPDB).


Where is SQLObject
==================

Site:
http://sqlobject.org

Development:
http://sqlobject.org/devel/

Mailing list:
https://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/sqlobject-discuss

Archives:
http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.sqlobject

Download:
http://cheeseshop.python.org/pypi/SQLObject/0.11.0

News and changes:
http://sqlobject.org/News.html


What's New
==========

News since 0.10
-----------------

Features & Interface
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

* Dropped support for Python 2.3. The minimal version of Python for
  SQLObject is 2.4 now.

* Dropped support for PostgreSQL 7.2. The minimal supported version of
  PostgreSQL is 7.3 now.

* New magic attribute 'j' similar to 'q' was added that automagically does
  join with the other table in MultipleJoin or RelatedJoin.

* SQLObject can now create and drop a database in MySQL, PostgreSQL, SQLite
  and Firebird/Interbase.

* Added some support for schemas in PostgreSQL.

* Added DecimalStringCol - similar to DecimalCol but stores data as strings
  to work around problems in some drivers and type affinity problem in
  SQLite.

* Added sqlobject.include.hashcol.HashCol - a column type that automatically
  hashes anything going into it, and returns out an object that hashes
  anything being compared to itself. Basically, it's good for really simple
  one-way password fields, and it even supports the assignment of None to
  indicate no password set. By default, it uses the md5 library for
  hashing, but this can be changed in a HashCol definition.

* RowDestroyedSignal and RowUpdatedSignal were added.

Minor features
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

* Use reversed() in manager/command.py instead of .__reversed__().

* Minor change in logging to console - logger no longer stores the output
  file, it gets the file from module sys every time by name; this means
  logging will use new sys.stdout (or stderr) in case the user changed
  them.

* Changed the order of testing of SQLite modules - look for external
  PySQLite2 before sqlite3.

For a more complete list, please see the news:
http://sqlobject.org/News.html

Oleg.
-- 
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.


From paul at boddie.org.uk  Wed Aug 12 06:32:08 2009
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 03:32:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <7f7c3e90-6026-411f-8b4a-829798819128@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>

On 12 Aug, 09:58, Steven D'Aprano
 wrote:
>
> We know that there are problems. We've said repeatedly that corrections
> and patches are welcome. We've repeatedly told you how to communicate
> your answer to the question of what should be done. None of this is good
> enough for you. I don't know what else you expect.

Maybe the problem is that although everyone welcomes contributions and
changes (or says that they do), the mechanisms remain largely beyond
criticism. Consequently, one sees occasional laments about there not
being enough people contributing to Python core development and soul-
searching about the reasons this might be so. If it were insisted that
changes to, say, Wikipedia were to be proposed by submitting a patch
or report for perusal by the editors and for future inclusion in some
version of the project, the whole project would most likely be a
shadow of its current self, and ambitions of large-scale collaborative
editing in general would still be ridiculed.

A free-for-all isn't likely to be the best solution for more actively
edited Python documentation, but Wiki solutions undeniably provide a
superior "fast path" for edits by trusted users to be incorporated and
published in accessible end-user documentation. Almost every analysis
of the current (and previous) documentation mechanisms has identified
the editorial workflow as a bottleneck and then proceeded to replicate
such a bottleneck in any proposed solution. I'm starting to believe
that there's a certain snobbery about Wiki solutions which lead many
people to develop all sorts of short-term, arcane solutions under the
illusion that something super-special and customised is necessary and
that they have to start virtually from scratch in order to cater to
the ultra-special needs of the target audience; by the time they're
done, no-one's interested any more, except to propose the next legacy
system in the making.

[...]

> > That some of us choose to
> > invest it somewhere other than Python does not deprive of of our right
> > to point out problems in Python when we note them.
>
> Of course not. But it does mean that you won't be taken seriously, and
> you have no right to be taken seriously.

That's an absurd position that has soured the reputation of numerous
projects. When someone spends the time to write a bug report, they are
often investing as much time and effort in something that they are
able to in any productive sense. I make a habit of submitting bug
reports to software distributions, typically so that the people who
are responsible for the components involved can investigate the
problem effectively. When the maintainers just close such reports or
mark them with a number of different labels which mostly indicate that
they consider those reports not worth their time, it sends the message
that they consider their time to be vastly more important than their
users, even though their users might have set aside an hour of their
potentially busy schedule which might have meant sacrificing something
else that should have taken higher priority (like time for sleeping,
in my own personal experience). Thus, I've had the impression with
some projects that I should be maintaining all sorts of stuff - the
bootloader, the kernel, various desktop applications, Mozilla - all so
that stuff actually gets fixed and that I'm not perceived as just
another user whose bug reports aren't welcome. I don't find this
reasonable at all when in many cases there *are* people getting paid
to do these jobs.

The Python core developers seem more attentive than in various other
projects, but please let us not establish the "delicate genius"
mentality that has infested other projects to the point that any
criticism is automatically labelled as ungrateful whining by people
who supposedly don't use the software, have an axe to grind, and who
are apparent simpletons who don't understand the revolutionary vision
of the project leadership. If you think throwing away goodwill is an
acceptable way of silencing complaints, please take a look at just
about any article about KDE 4 that permits reader comments to see how
much goodwill can be lost and what effect that has on a project's
reputation.

Paul


From davea at ieee.org  Wed Aug 12 07:05:39 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 07:05:39 -0400
Subject: adding multiple new values to the same key in a dictionary
In-Reply-To: <4A822900.7030008@ieee.org>
References: <4A8192A30200008C00014AB9@redhorse.forestry.uga.edu>
	<4A822900.7030008@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <4A82A203.6030408@ieee.org>

Dave Angel wrote:
> Krishna Pacifici wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I want to be able to add multiple new values to a key in a dictionary.
>>
>> I have tried the following:
>>
>> sec_dict_clean=
>> {88: [87, 89, 78, 98], 58: [57, 59, 48, 68], 69: [79], 95: [94, 96, 85]}
>>
>> for i in range(len(sec_dict_clean.values())):
>>     for j in range(len(sec_dict_clean.values()[i])):
>>         
>> sec_dict_clean.setdefault(key,[]).append(blocks[sec_dict_clean.values()[i][j]].abundance) 
>>
>>
>> where blocks[...].abundance gives me a single value from an object,
>>
>> but this gives me the following:
>>
>> sec_dict_clean=
>> {88: [87, 89, 78, 98], 58: [57, 59, 48, 68], 69: [79], 95: [94, 96, 
>> 85, 4, 12, 11, 6, 9, 12, 11, 7, 10, 10, 12, 9, 6, 12, 15, 9, 8, 12, 
>> 15, 12, 12]}
>>
>> instead I want each abundance (starts with 4, 12...) to be associated 
>> with each of the values so that it would look like this:
>>
>> sec_dict_clean=
>> {88: ([87, 89, 78, 98], [4,12,11,6]), 58: ([57, 59, 48, 68], 
>> [9,12,11,7]), 69: ([79], [10])...}
>>
>> You can see there are several errors here (I have more things being 
>> appended than there are values in the dictionary), but I really just 
>> want to know how to add multiple values to the same key in a dictionary.
>>
>> Thanks for any help,
>> Krishna
>>
>>
>>
>>   
> You're really distorting the purposes of both dictionary and list 
> here.  It makes your code totally unreadable, which makes it hard to 
> write, and hard to debug.
>
> A dictionary is a mapping between key and value, where each key has 
> exactly one value.  You cannot add another one to it.   All you can do 
> is make the value something which is itself a collection.  Now, your 
> desired dictionary looks achievable, almost.  If you change the parens 
> (tuple) to square brackets (list), then it'll work.
>    So key 88 has a single value, which is a list of two items.  Each 
> of those items is itself a list with 4 items.  And each of those items 
> are integers.
>
> But then I got bogged down in your sample code.  I tried to simplify 
> it, replacing the first two lines with these three:
>
> for i, key in enumerate(sec_dict_clean):
>    val = sec_dict_clean[key]
>    for j, xxx in enumerate(val):
>        
> ???sec_dict_clean.setdefault(key,[]).append(blocks[sec_dict_clean.values()[i][j]].abundance) 
>
>
> But I can't make head nor tail of the third line.  You didn't have a 
> variable key, so I don't know if I'm using the same one..  Since I 
> can't figure out what you were trying to do, I can't see how to fix it.
>
> I think the problem here is you're trying to reorganize the data as 
> well as adding to it, in a single pass.  So is some previous code 
> generating the dictionary incorrectly, and instead of fixing that, 
> you're trying to reorganize it here?
>
> To make each dictionary value a list of lists:
>
> sec_dict_clean=
> {88: [87, 89, 78, 98], 58: [57, 59, 48, 68], 69: [79], 95: [94, 96, 85]}
>
> for key in sec_dict_clean:
>    sec_dict_clean[key] = [sec_dict_clean[key]]
>
> now,  the dict looks like:
> {88: [[87, 89, 78, 98, 3]], 58: [[57, 59, 48, 68]], 69: [[79]], 95: 
> [[94, 96, 85]]}
>
> At this point, if you have some interesting data to add to it, you can 
> just append a new list to
>     dict[key]
>
> In an earlier message, you mentioned fields a and b, and assuming this 
> is a similar problem, it would seem that 87 is somehow associated with 
> 4, and 89 with 12, and so on.  If that's the case, perhaps your 
> desired final structure might look more like:
>
> {88: [[87,4], [89,12], [78, 11],[98, 6],   58: [[57, 9], [59, 12], 
> [48, 11], [68, 7]],   69: ...}
>
>
> In this case, the structure is entirely different.  But the approach 
> is the same.  And at least you'd be getting closer to the object 
> approach where  [87,4] is replaced by an object of some type.
>
> BTW, please don't top-post.  When you reply to this one, put your 
> reply at the end, or sometimes interspersed.  But if you put it at the 
> beginning, it's out of order.
>
> DaveA
>
>
>
>
Look at the following (tested in Python 2.6.2).,  There are a number of 
things that could be cleaner, mainly the names of things.  I should 
never be calling something "value" unless it's a very generic routine.


class Sample(object):
    def __init__(self, mainval):
        self.mainval = mainval
        self.a = self.b = None
    def set_tags(self, a, b):
        self.a = a
        self.b = b
    def __repr__(self):
        return "<" + str(self.mainval) + " a=" + str(self.a) + " b=" + 
str(self.b) + ">"


diction2 = {88: [Sample(87), Sample(89), Sample(98), Sample(3)],
            58: [Sample(57), Sample(59), Sample(48), Sample(68)],
            69: [Sample(79)]
                 }

print diction2

for key, valuelist in diction2.iteritems():
    for item in valuelist:
        item.set_tags(12, 106)             #here's where you'd be using 
that mysterious blocks dictionary

print diction2



DaveA


From andrew at acooke.org  Wed Aug 12 07:49:06 2009
From: andrew at acooke.org (andrew cooke)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 04:49:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Frustrated with scopes
References: <28f6f8e1-2689-4ff3-b453-e6c8859d2c43@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 12, 1:51?am, James Stroud 
wrote:
> andrew cooke wrote:
> > Is there a way to make this work (currently scope and join are
> > undefined at runtime when the inner class attributes are defined):
>
> > class _StreamFactory(object):
>
> > ? ? @staticmethod
> > ? ? def __call__(lines, source, join=''.join):
>
> > ? ? ? ? class Line(object):
>
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? __source = source
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? __join = join
> > [...]
>
> It would be helpful if you were to describe the type of behavior you expect.

Sorry, I didn't make myself clear.  When run the code gives
 NameError: name 'source' is not defined
because the class namespace blocks the function namespace (or
something...).

Andrew


From andrew at acooke.org  Wed Aug 12 07:51:37 2009
From: andrew at acooke.org (andrew cooke)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 04:51:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Frustrated with scopes
References: <28f6f8e1-2689-4ff3-b453-e6c8859d2c43@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <4288a429-c7be-47a5-be06-7a53879d1767@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 12, 7:49?am, andrew cooke  wrote:
> On Aug 12, 1:51?am, James Stroud 
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > andrew cooke wrote:
> > > Is there a way to make this work (currently scope and join are
> > > undefined at runtime when the inner class attributes are defined):
>
> > > class _StreamFactory(object):
>
> > > ? ? @staticmethod
> > > ? ? def __call__(lines, source, join=''.join):
>
> > > ? ? ? ? class Line(object):
>
> > > ? ? ? ? ? ? __source = source
> > > ? ? ? ? ? ? __join = join
> > > [...]
>
> > It would be helpful if you were to describe the type of behavior you expect.
>
> Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. ?When run the code gives
> ?NameError: name 'source' is not defined
> because the class namespace blocks the function namespace (or
> something...).

ie when the __call__ method is invoked on an instance of
_StreamFactory.

> Andrew



From bernard.chhun at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 07:53:19 2009
From: bernard.chhun at gmail.com (Bernard)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 04:53:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: matching patterns after regex?
References: <61bef795-f146-4bdd-b5b3-a212e6d9197c@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2387d409-110a-451d-b301-6d7fe4abc793@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On 12 ao?t, 06:15, Martin  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a string (see below) and ideally I would like to pull out the
> decimal number which follows the bounding coordinate information. For
> example ideal from this string I would return...
>
> s = '\nGROUP ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?= ARCHIVEDMETADATA\n
> GROUPTYPE ? ? ? ? ? ?= MASTERGROUP\n\n ?GROUP ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?=
> BOUNDINGRECTANGLE\n\n ? ?OBJECT ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? =
> NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n ? ? ?NUM_VAL ? ? ? ? ? ? ?= 1\n
> VALUE ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?= 19.9999999982039\n ? ?END_OBJECT ? ? ? ? ? ? =
> NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n\n ? ?OBJECT ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? =
> SOUTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n ? ? ?NUM_VAL ? ? ? ? ? ? ?= 1\n
> VALUE ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?= 9.99999999910197\n ? ?END_OBJECT ? ? ? ? ? ? =
> SOUTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n\n ? ?OBJECT ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? =
> EASTBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n ? ? ?NUM_VAL ? ? ? ? ? ? ?= 1\n
> VALUE ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?= 10.6506458717851\n ? ?END_OBJECT ? ? ? ? ? ? =
> EASTBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n\n ? ?OBJECT ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? =
> WESTBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n ? ? ?NUM_VAL ? ? ? ? ? ? ?= 1\n
> VALUE ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?= 4.3188348375893e-15\n ? ?END_OBJECT
> = WESTBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n\n ?END_GROUP
>
> NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE = 19.9999999982039
> SOUTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE = 9.99999999910197
> EASTBOUNDINGCOORDINATE = 10.6506458717851
> WESTBOUNDINGCOORDINATE = 4.3188348375893e-15
>
> so far I have only managed to extract the numbers by doing re.findall
> ("[\d.]*\d", s), which returns
>
> ['1',
> ?'19.9999999982039',
> ?'1',
> ?'9.99999999910197',
> ?'1',
> ?'10.6506458717851',
> ?'1',
> ?'4.3188348375893',
> ?'15',
> etc.
>
> Now the first problem that I can see is that my string match chops off
> the "e-15" part and I am not sure how to incorporate the potential for
> that in my pattern match. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I
> could also match this? Ideally I would have a statement which printed
> the number between the two bounding coordinate strings for example
>
> NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n ? ? ?NUM_VAL ? ? ? ? ? ? ?= 1\n
> VALUE ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?= 19.9999999982039\n ? ?END_OBJECT ? ? ? ? ? ? =
> NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n\n
>
> Something that matched "NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE" and printed the
> decimal number before it hit the next string
> "NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE". But I am not sure how to do this. any
> suggestions would be appreciated.
>
> Many thanks
>
> Martin

Hey Martin,

here's a regex I've just tested : (\w+COORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.
\w-]+)

the first match corresponds to the whateverBOUNDINGCOORDINATE and the
second match is the value.

please provide some more entries if you'd like me to test my regex
some more :)

cheers

Bernard


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Wed Aug 12 08:08:40 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 12 Aug 2009 12:08:40 GMT
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	
	<7f7c3e90-6026-411f-8b4a-829798819128@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0292a134$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 03:32:08 -0700, Paul Boddie wrote:

> On 12 Aug, 09:58, Steven D'Aprano
>  wrote:
>>
>> We know that there are problems. We've said repeatedly that corrections
>> and patches are welcome. We've repeatedly told you how to communicate
>> your answer to the question of what should be done. None of this is
>> good enough for you. I don't know what else you expect.
> 
> Maybe the problem is that although everyone welcomes contributions and
> changes (or says that they do), the mechanisms remain largely beyond
> criticism. Consequently, one sees occasional laments about there not
> being enough people contributing to Python core development and soul-
> searching about the reasons this might be so. If it were insisted that
> changes to, say, Wikipedia were to be proposed by submitting a patch or
> report for perusal by the editors and for future inclusion in some
> version of the project, the whole project would most likely be a shadow
> of its current self, and ambitions of large-scale collaborative editing
> in general would still be ridiculed.

If Python had the tens of thousands of users, and hundreds of trusted 
(for some definition of trusted) editors, then Python could run using the 
same model as Wikipedia. The Wikipedia model is great, and I contribute 
to it myself.

But Wikipedia gets its users from the entire population of web-users, 
because there's something of interest to everyone in Wikipedia. 
Interested in movies? There are Wikipedia pages for you to contribute to. 
Interested in medicine? There are pages you can help with. Interested in 
the history and development of the mechanical pencil? There's probably 
even a page for you. And if there isn't, you can create one.

With tens of millions of web users, it's no surprise that Wikipedia can 
attract thousands of editors. But this does not apply to Python, which 
starts from a comparatively tiny population, primarily those interested 
in Python. Have a look at the Wikipedia page for Python. The Talk Page 
has comments from no more than *eight* people. The History stats suggest 
that, over seven years, only sixty-nine people have made more than a 
single edit to the page, most of them having made just two edits. Just 36 
people have made more than two edits, and some of those are bots. Only 
one user, Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters (David Mertz), has made more than 100 
edits.


> A free-for-all isn't likely to be the best solution for more actively
> edited Python documentation, but Wiki solutions undeniably provide a
> superior "fast path" for edits by trusted users to be incorporated and
> published in accessible end-user documentation. 

And the Python time-machine strikes again:

http://wiki.python.org/moin/


>> > That some of us choose to
>> > invest it somewhere other than Python does not deprive of of our
>> > right to point out problems in Python when we note them.
>>
>> Of course not. But it does mean that you won't be taken seriously, and
>> you have no right to be taken seriously.
> 
> That's an absurd position that has soured the reputation of numerous
> projects. When someone spends the time to write a bug report, they are
> often investing as much time and effort in something that they are able
> to in any productive sense. 

Firstly, in context, I wasn't talking to somebody who had made bug 
reports. I was talking to somebody whose only contribution, as near as I 
can tell, was to loudly complain that there are flaws in the Python 
documentation and insist that somebody else should fix them just the way 
he wants them fixed -- without being willing to even explain how he wants 
them fixed. Possibly the developers are expected to intuit from first 
principles what he wants.

Secondly, the world is full of complainers who won't lift a finger to 
help but demand others help them. It may be unfair to tar everybody with 
the same brush, but life is to short and time to valuable to avoid making 
judgements as to who to pay attention to. Those who invest a lot of 
effort into providing patches get listened to closely; so do those who 
make good quality detailed bug reports. Those who just say "It's broken, 
fix it" don't. Sometimes that will mean that someone with genuinely good 
ideas will be ignored, but that's the price one pays for avoiding being 
drowned by a chorus of trivial, contradictory, vague and insubstantial 
complaints.

If the Python Dev team paid attention to every post here claiming that 
Python "has a bug" when the bug was actually in the complainant's own 
code, we'd probably still be running Python 1.5.


> I make a habit of submitting bug reports to
> software distributions, typically so that the people who are responsible
> for the components involved can investigate the problem effectively.
> When the maintainers just close such reports or mark them with a number
> of different labels which mostly indicate that they consider those
> reports not worth their time, it sends the message that they consider
> their time to be vastly more important than their users, even though
> their users might have set aside an hour of their potentially busy
> schedule which might have meant sacrificing something else that should
> have taken higher priority (like time for sleeping, in my own personal
> experience).

Oh dear me. You mean that they don't agree that YOUR time is more 
important than theirs??? What horrible people they must be, to expect you 
to sacrifice some of your sleep time just so *they* can get some sleep 
themselves!!! Who do they think they are???



-- 
Steven


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Aug 12 08:12:14 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:12:14 +0200
Subject: Frustrated with scopes
References: <28f6f8e1-2689-4ff3-b453-e6c8859d2c43@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<4288a429-c7be-47a5-be06-7a53879d1767@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7efpsuF2fvcq5U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

andrew cooke wrote:

> On Aug 12, 7:49?am, andrew cooke  wrote:
>> On Aug 12, 1:51?am, James Stroud 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > andrew cooke wrote:
>> > > Is there a way to make this work (currently scope and join are
>> > > undefined at runtime when the inner class attributes are defined):
>>
>> > > class _StreamFactory(object):
>>
>> > > @staticmethod
>> > > def __call__(lines, source, join=''.join):
>>
>> > > class Line(object):
>>
>> > > __source = source
>> > > __join = join
>> > > [...]
>>
>> > It would be helpful if you were to describe the type of behavior you
>> > expect.
>>
>> Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. ?When run the code gives
>> NameError: name 'source' is not defined
>> because the class namespace blocks the function namespace (or
>> something...).
> 
> ie when the __call__ method is invoked on an instance of
> _StreamFactory.

But you can refer to the arguments if you don't insist on setting them as
class-attributes:




def factory(foo, bar):

    class A(object):

        def do_something(self):
            print foo, bar

    return A()

a = factory(10, 20)
a.do_something()



Diez


From mdekauwe at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 08:12:22 2009
From: mdekauwe at gmail.com (Martin)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 05:12:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: matching patterns after regex?
References: <61bef795-f146-4bdd-b5b3-a212e6d9197c@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<2387d409-110a-451d-b301-6d7fe4abc793@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 12, 12:53 pm, Bernard  wrote:
> On 12 ao?t, 06:15, Martin  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi,
>
> > I have a string (see below) and ideally I would like to pull out the
> > decimal number which follows the bounding coordinate information. For
> > example ideal from this string I would return...
>
> > s = '\nGROUP                  = ARCHIVEDMETADATA\n
> > GROUPTYPE            = MASTERGROUP\n\n  GROUP                  =
> > BOUNDINGRECTANGLE\n\n    OBJECT                 =
> > NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n      NUM_VAL              = 1\n
> > VALUE                = 19.9999999982039\n    END_OBJECT             =
> > NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n\n    OBJECT                 =
> > SOUTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n      NUM_VAL              = 1\n
> > VALUE                = 9.99999999910197\n    END_OBJECT             =
> > SOUTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n\n    OBJECT                 =
> > EASTBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n      NUM_VAL              = 1\n
> > VALUE                = 10.6506458717851\n    END_OBJECT             =
> > EASTBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n\n    OBJECT                 =
> > WESTBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n      NUM_VAL              = 1\n
> > VALUE                = 4.3188348375893e-15\n    END_OBJECT
> > = WESTBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n\n  END_GROUP
>
> > NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE = 19.9999999982039
> > SOUTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE = 9.99999999910197
> > EASTBOUNDINGCOORDINATE = 10.6506458717851
> > WESTBOUNDINGCOORDINATE = 4.3188348375893e-15
>
> > so far I have only managed to extract the numbers by doing re.findall
> > ("[\d.]*\d", s), which returns
>
> > ['1',
> >  '19.9999999982039',
> >  '1',
> >  '9.99999999910197',
> >  '1',
> >  '10.6506458717851',
> >  '1',
> >  '4.3188348375893',
> >  '15',
> > etc.
>
> > Now the first problem that I can see is that my string match chops off
> > the "e-15" part and I am not sure how to incorporate the potential for
> > that in my pattern match. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I
> > could also match this? Ideally I would have a statement which printed
> > the number between the two bounding coordinate strings for example
>
> > NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n      NUM_VAL              = 1\n
> > VALUE                = 19.9999999982039\n    END_OBJECT             =
> > NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n\n
>
> > Something that matched "NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE" and printed the
> > decimal number before it hit the next string
> > "NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE". But I am not sure how to do this. any
> > suggestions would be appreciated.
>
> > Many thanks
>
> > Martin
>
> Hey Martin,
>
> here's a regex I've just tested : (\w+COORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.
> \w-]+)
>
> the first match corresponds to the whateverBOUNDINGCOORDINATE and the
> second match is the value.
>
> please provide some more entries if you'd like me to test my regex
> some more :)
>
> cheers
>
> Bernard

Thanks Bernard it doesn't seem to be working for me...

I tried

re.findall((\w+COORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.\w-]+),s)

is that what you meant? Apologies if not, that results in a syntax
error:

In [557]: re.findall((\w+COORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.\w-]+),s)
------------------------------------------------------------
   File "", line 1
     re.findall((\w+COORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.\w-]+),s)
                                                              ^
SyntaxError: unexpected character after line continuation character

Thanks





From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Wed Aug 12 08:20:26 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 12 Aug 2009 12:20:26 GMT
Subject: Frustrated with scopes
References: <28f6f8e1-2689-4ff3-b453-e6c8859d2c43@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <0292a3f6$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 04:49:06 -0700, andrew cooke wrote:

>> It would be helpful if you were to describe the type of behavior you
>> expect.
> 
> Sorry, I didn't make myself clear.  When run the code gives
>  NameError: name 'source' is not defined
> because the class namespace blocks the function namespace (or
> something...).

James asked you to describe the behaviour you expect. Please explain what 
you expect, and what you actually get. Post the ACTUAL error message, not 
a summary, not a paraphrase, but an actual copy and paste.


In any case, your code snippet works for me:


>>> class _StreamFactory(object):
...     @staticmethod
...     def __call__(lines, source, join=''.join):
...         class Line(object):
...             __source = source
...             __join = join
...
>>> obj = _StreamFactory()
>>> obj(['a', 'b'], "ab")
>>>

No errors. Of course it doesn't return anything, because your code 
snippet doesn't return anything either. Here's a modified version which 
returns the inner class:

>>> class _StreamFactory2(object):
...     @staticmethod
...     def __call__(lines, source, join=''.join):
...         class Line(object):
...             __source = source
...             __join = join
...         return Line
...
>>> obj = _StreamFactory2()
>>> K = obj(['a', 'b'], "ab")
>>> K

>>> K._Line__source
'ab'


Works perfectly. I suspect your error is probably something like you have 
misspelled "source" somewhere.


-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Wed Aug 12 08:23:25 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 12 Aug 2009 12:23:25 GMT
Subject: matching patterns after regex?
References: <61bef795-f146-4bdd-b5b3-a212e6d9197c@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<2387d409-110a-451d-b301-6d7fe4abc793@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <0292a4a9$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 05:12:22 -0700, Martin wrote:

> I tried
> 
> re.findall((\w+COORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.\w-]+),s)

You need to put quotes around strings.

In this case, because you're using regular expressions, you should use a 
raw string:

re.findall(r"(\w+COORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.\w-]+)",s)

will probably work.





-- 
Steven


From solipsis at pitrou.net  Wed Aug 12 08:37:15 2009
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:37:15 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	
	<7f7c3e90-6026-411f-8b4a-829798819128@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Paul Boddie  boddie.org.uk> writes:
> 
> A free-for-all isn't likely to be the best solution for more actively
> edited Python documentation, but Wiki solutions undeniably provide a
> superior "fast path" for edits by trusted users to be incorporated and
> published in accessible end-user documentation.

Agreed.

> I'm starting to believe
> that there's a certain snobbery about Wiki solutions which lead many
> people to develop all sorts of short-term, arcane solutions under the
> illusion that something super-special and customised is necessary and
> that they have to start virtually from scratch in order to cater to
> the ultra-special needs of the target audience; by the time they're
> done, no-one's interested any more, except to propose the next legacy
> system in the making.

Not sure why you think it's snobbery... There are certain tacit expectations
regarding the docs:
- that they are versioned with the source tree (because, often, changes in
documentation will be synchronized with changes in behaviour / functionality, 
because we must maintain documentation for several versions at once, because you
want to use the same kind of merging that is used between different branches)
- that they can be used offline, rebuilt in different formats, etc.
- that you don't need a Web server (even locally) to navigate through them
- that proposed changes are to be reviewed by maintainers (core developers)
before they get actually committed

I'm not sure of any existing wiki system which fits the bill. So, while I agree
that the current situation can present a high threshold for occasional doc-only
contributions, there doesn't seem to be a simple solution to improve things.




From mdekauwe at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 08:42:52 2009
From: mdekauwe at gmail.com (Martin)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 05:42:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: matching patterns after regex?
References: <61bef795-f146-4bdd-b5b3-a212e6d9197c@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<2387d409-110a-451d-b301-6d7fe4abc793@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> 
	 
	<0292a4a9$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <18d5d342-b678-4101-a284-24d6176ac856@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 12, 1:23 pm, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 05:12:22 -0700, Martin wrote:
> > I tried
>
> > re.findall((\w+COORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.\w-]+),s)
>
> You need to put quotes around strings.
>
> In this case, because you're using regular expressions, you should use a
> raw string:
>
> re.findall(r"(\w+COORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.\w-]+)",s)
>
> will probably work.
>
> --
> Steven

Thanks I see.

so I tried it and if I use it as it is, it matches the first instance:
I
n [594]: re.findall(r"(\w+COORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.\w-]+)",s)
Out[594]: [('NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE', '1')]

So I adjusted the first part of the regex, on the basis I could sub
NORTH for SOUTH etc.

In [595]: re.findall(r"(NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.
\w-]+)",s)
Out[595]: [('NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE', '1')]

But in both cases it doesn't return the decimal value rather the value
that comes after NUM_VAL = , rather than VALUE = ?




From davea at ieee.org  Wed Aug 12 08:52:50 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 08:52:50 -0400
Subject: Frustrated with scopes
In-Reply-To: <28f6f8e1-2689-4ff3-b453-e6c8859d2c43@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
References: <28f6f8e1-2689-4ff3-b453-e6c8859d2c43@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A82BB22.3080709@ieee.org>

andrew cooke wrote:
> Is there a way to make this work (currently scope and join are
> undefined at runtime when the inner class attributes are defined):
>
> class _StreamFactory(object):
>
>     @staticmethod
>     def __call__(lines, source, join=''.join):
>
>         class Line(object):
>
>             __source = source
>             __join = join
> [...]
>
> I can get something working by bouncing through global values, but it
> looks awful and I think it's a source of a bug due too values being
> redefined.
>
> Thanks,
> Andrew
>
>   
Supply us with just enough source code to actually try it, give the full 
error message including traceback, and tell us what you expected to 
see.  Also tell us Python version   (sys.version)

So far you've done none of these.  When I try the following, I get no 
errors, using Python 2.6.2


class _StreamFactory(object):

    @staticmethod
    def __call__(lines, source, join=''.join):

        class Line(object):

            __source = source
            __join = join
        return Line()


fact = _StreamFactory()
obj = fact(43, "name.txt")
print obj




From davea at ieee.org  Wed Aug 12 08:52:50 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 08:52:50 -0400
Subject: Frustrated with scopes
In-Reply-To: <28f6f8e1-2689-4ff3-b453-e6c8859d2c43@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
References: <28f6f8e1-2689-4ff3-b453-e6c8859d2c43@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A82BB22.3080709@ieee.org>

andrew cooke wrote:
> Is there a way to make this work (currently scope and join are
> undefined at runtime when the inner class attributes are defined):
>
> class _StreamFactory(object):
>
>     @staticmethod
>     def __call__(lines, source, join=''.join):
>
>         class Line(object):
>
>             __source = source
>             __join = join
> [...]
>
> I can get something working by bouncing through global values, but it
> looks awful and I think it's a source of a bug due too values being
> redefined.
>
> Thanks,
> Andrew
>
>   
Supply us with just enough source code to actually try it, give the full 
error message including traceback, and tell us what you expected to 
see.  Also tell us Python version   (sys.version)

So far you've done none of these.  When I try the following, I get no 
errors, using Python 2.6.2


class _StreamFactory(object):

    @staticmethod
    def __call__(lines, source, join=''.join):

        class Line(object):

            __source = source
            __join = join
        return Line()


fact = _StreamFactory()
obj = fact(43, "name.txt")
print obj




From paul at boddie.org.uk  Wed Aug 12 09:24:18 2009
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 06:24:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	
	<7f7c3e90-6026-411f-8b4a-829798819128@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
	<0292a134$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <3a15345c-9d01-48ab-8f15-dd6053ea70a0@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On 12 Aug, 14:08, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
>
> With tens of millions of web users, it's no surprise that Wikipedia can
> attract thousands of editors. But this does not apply to Python, which
> starts from a comparatively tiny population, primarily those interested
> in Python. Have a look at the Wikipedia page for Python.

What does the Python entry on Wikipedia have to do with editing the
Python documentation in a Wiki? Once everyone has agreed that the
description of Python on Wikipedia is reasonable, there's not much
point in editing it, is there? In contrast, there's a continuous
stream of people who don't think Python's documentation is that great.

[...]

> > A free-for-all isn't likely to be the best solution for more actively
> > edited Python documentation, but Wiki solutions undeniably provide a
> > superior "fast path" for edits by trusted users to be incorporated and
> > published in accessible end-user documentation.
>
> And the Python time-machine strikes again:
>
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/

And I suggested that the complainants use it as a starting point.

[...]

> Oh dear me. You mean that they don't agree that YOUR time is more
> important than theirs??? What horrible people they must be, to expect you
> to sacrifice some of your sleep time just so *they* can get some sleep
> themselves!!! Who do they think they are???

That's quite an attempt to make my position more extreme than it
actually is. I get people asking me to improve my own software, you
know, and even if I don't have the time or inclination to do what they
ask, I do spend time discussing it with them. Such people, including
myself when I'm on the other side of the fence, appreciate more than
just a brush-off and no: they don't insist that their own time be
valued above anyone else's (as you would have me misrepresented); they
just ask that their own efforts aren't treated as having no value
because they're not part of the "elite" development team. You get
various projects doing soul-searching about embracing the efforts of
non-programmers, and the first port of call on that particular voyage
is to not treat them like idiot consumers whose remarks can only be
considered as mere heckling while the visionaries act out their
flawless production.

Paul

P.S. The mention of "social problems" ties in with other remarks made
recently, and I've increasingly found it more trouble than has been
worthwhile to pursue Python-related matters of late. When one tries to
encourage people to participate in improving various things, which
usually means the community having to accept a degree of criticism,
people claim that it's encouraging "undesirable" influences to point
such critics in the right direction instead of showing them the door.
When one tries to pursue such improvement matters oneself, people
always have something to say about the choice of technology or whether
they like the particular background colour being used or indeed have
an opinion, typically shallow and negative, about anything but the
task at hand, and there'll always be someone queuing up to dismantle
anything that does get done at the first opportunity. In contrast,
I've found other groups of people to be grateful for even modest
technical assistance, and I know that such people are much more likely
to get my support and input in the future than those who think that
it's some kind of advantage to have potential contributors run the
gauntlet of denial (that there are structural problems in their
project), skepticism (that newcomers can have anything to contribute),
discouragement (because any solution which doesn't validate someone's
technology preferences must be criticised) and, indeed, outright
hostility.

One can always spend one's time doing something which isn't 100%
enjoyable or 100% rewarding if one feels that the time is still being
spent on something worthwhile. I'm getting the feeling that lots of
Python-related stuff doesn't quite satisfy such criteria any more.


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Wed Aug 12 09:27:49 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 15:27:49 +0200
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
In-Reply-To: <8c7f10c60908120121v4bbf9040h9da68a650ef48566@mail.gmail.com>
References: 	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<8c7f10c60908120121v4bbf9040h9da68a650ef48566@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A82C355.8080304@sequans.com>

Simon Brunning wrote:
> 2009/8/11 Robert Dailey :
>   
>> On Aug 11, 3:40 pm, Bearophile  wrote:
>>     
>>> There are gals too here.
>>>       
>> It's a figure of speech. And besides, why would I want programming
>> advice from a woman? lol. Thanks for the help.
>>     
>
> Give the attitudes still prevalent in our industry (cf
>  and many more), I'm sorry to say that I
> don't think this is funny.
>
>   
Having someone present technical informations with porn content cannot 
be qualified as "prevalent in our industry". I would even dare to say 
this is the opposite, it is almost unique.
I would also add that Robert was very far from this attitude, I consider 
his joke as a friendly tickle, not a male chauvinist aggression. I'm no 
women, but I'm sure they are as capable as me, not to say more, of 
making the distinction.

It has been said this list is not very friendly to newbies, let's not 
make it hostile to gentle jokes (even those not funny) when thanking 
helpers.

JM




From andrew at acooke.org  Wed Aug 12 09:47:38 2009
From: andrew at acooke.org (andrew cooke)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 06:47:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Frustrated with scopes
References: <28f6f8e1-2689-4ff3-b453-e6c8859d2c43@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <3bf15201-afc3-4fb4-9a99-ee2966c4da61@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 12, 8:52?am, Dave Angel  wrote:
> Supply us with just enough source code to actually try it, give the full
> error message including traceback, and tell us what you expected to
> see. ?Also tell us Python version ? (sys.version)
>
> So far you've done none of these. ?When I try the following, I get no
> errors, using Python 2.6.2
>
> class _StreamFactory(object):
>
> ? ? @staticmethod
> ? ? def __call__(lines, source, join=''.join):
>
> ? ? ? ? class Line(object):
>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? __source = source
> ? ? ? ? ? ? __join = join
> ? ? ? ? return Line()
>
> fact = _StreamFactory()
> obj = fact(43, "name.txt")
> print obj

Ah!  OK, thanks for that.  I need to look at this again.  I'll post
again if necessary, but if it works for you then I clearly don't
understand what the issue is myself.

Andrew


From ebonak at hotmail.com  Wed Aug 12 09:58:09 2009
From: ebonak at hotmail.com (Esmail)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 09:58:09 -0400
Subject: best practice for documenting a project? pydoc?
Message-ID: 

Hello,

A project that I have been working on is getting larger
and more complex, and I would like to unload some of the
information from my memory/head to some other media (a
set of web pages?). I am primarily interested in documenting
the classes/methods.

This documentation is primarily for my use only - as I can't
continuously work on this project and have to come back to it
after some time, it would be nice to have some documentation
available to help jog my memory.

What is the best way to do this in an automated way? I have
been documenting my code as I've gone along.

Is pydoc still the way to go, or should I use something else?

Thanks,
Esmail



From exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  Wed Aug 12 10:09:56 2009
From: exarkun at twistedmatrix.com (exarkun at twistedmatrix.com)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:09:56 -0000
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
In-Reply-To: <4A82C355.8080304@sequans.com>
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<8c7f10c60908120121v4bbf9040h9da68a650ef48566@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A82C355.8080304@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <20090812140956.10431.1919444081.divmod.xquotient.60@localhost.localdomain>

On 01:27 pm, jeanmichel at sequans.com wrote:
>Simon Brunning wrote:
>>2009/8/11 Robert Dailey :
>>>On Aug 11, 3:40 pm, Bearophile  wrote:
>>>>There are gals too here.
>>>It's a figure of speech. And besides, why would I want programming
>>>advice from a woman? lol. Thanks for the help.
>>
>>Give the attitudes still prevalent in our industry (cf
>> and many more), I'm sorry to say that I
>>don't think this is funny.
>Having someone present technical informations with porn content cannot 
>be qualified as "prevalent in our industry". I would even dare to say 
>this is the opposite, it is almost unique.
>I would also add that Robert was very far from this attitude, I 
>consider his joke as a friendly tickle, not a male chauvinist 
>aggression. I'm no women, but I'm sure they are as capable as me, not 
>to say more, of making the distinction.
>
>It has been said this list is not very friendly to newbies, let's not 
>make it hostile to gentle jokes (even those not funny) when thanking 
>helpers.

It's lots of little things like this which combine to create an 
environment which is less friendly towards women than it is towards 
others.  You might read it as a joke, others might not.  Even if it is a 
joke, it's in poor taste and doesn't really belong on python-list.

There's a difference between pointing out inappropriate behavior and 
being unfriendly.  Hopefully Robert got help with his problem.  That's 
what the list is here for.  Having accomplished that, it is not 
unfriendly to ask him not to make disparaging comments, "jokes" or 
otherwise, about groups of people.

Jean-Paul


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Aug 12 10:10:47 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 15:10:47 +0100
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
In-Reply-To: <3a15345c-9d01-48ab-8f15-dd6053ea70a0@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: 	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>		<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>		<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>		<7f7c3e90-6026-411f-8b4a-829798819128@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>	<0292a134$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<3a15345c-9d01-48ab-8f15-dd6053ea70a0@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Paul Boddie wrote:
[snip]
> One can always spend one's time doing something which isn't 100%
> enjoyable or 100% rewarding if one feels that the time is still being
> spent on something worthwhile. I'm getting the feeling that lots of
> Python-related stuff doesn't quite satisfy such criteria any more.

I've been strongly considering volunteering to do Python work but this 
thread has put me off completely.  I've time to spare as I only work 
part time due to long term health problems. However I don't feel that 
the time would be well spent on Python work, as I get the impression 
that a lot of it would go on cleaning some people's snotty noses, and on 
wiping other people's bottoms.

I'll just wait until my normal voluntary work starts again next month 
after the summer break.  Working with an extremely pleasant bunch of 
people hacking foreigners to death, that's more like it.  See the 
following links should anyone be interested.

http://www.dorsetforyou.com/index.jsp?articleid=386553
http://www.dorsetforyou.com/index.jsp?articleid=386598

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From maxerickson at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 10:14:46 2009
From: maxerickson at gmail.com (Max Erickson)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:14:46 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: httplib incredibly slow :-(
References: <4A81FDF5.6010508@simplistix.co.uk>
	<4A8274A9.7000905@simplistix.co.uk>
Message-ID: 

Chris Withers  wrote:
> 
> I'm still reeling from what seems to be such a huge problem with
> httplib that seem to be largely ignored :-(
> 
> Chris
> 

There is an httplib2 (but I don't know anything further about it...):

http://code.google.com/p/httplib2/

Calling wget or curl using a subprocess is probably as easy as it is 
ugly, I use the wget build from here:

http://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/packages/wget.htm


max



From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Wed Aug 12 10:29:37 2009
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 07:29:37 -0700
Subject: better way?
In-Reply-To: <6733c8fe-9ef8-4010-9b23-27538e19d8ff@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <9899e909-509e-47d4-a8e5-f9d70e0b8827@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<78a18b9b-f29e-432f-9fe4-8c250cb08edb@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<87skfyjen8.fsf@golux.woodcraft.me.uk>
	
	<6733c8fe-9ef8-4010-9b23-27538e19d8ff@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3tSdnTBlOchPUh_XnZ2dnUVZ_oGdnZ2d@pdx.net>

Pet wrote:
> On 11 Aug., 22:19, "Rami Chowdhury"  wrote:
>> Ah, my apologies, I must have been getting it confused with ON UPDATE  
>> [things]. Thanks for correcting me.
>>
>> On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:10:03 -0700, Matthew Woodcraft  
>>
>>  wrote:
>>> "Rami Chowdhury"  writes:
>>>> IIRC Postgres has had ON DUPLICATE KEY UPDATE functionality longer than
>>>> MySQL...
>>> PostgreSQL does not have ON DUPLICATE KEY UPDATE.
>>> The SQL standard way to do what the OP wants is MERGE. PostgreSQL
>>> doesn't have that either.
> 
> So, I'm doing it in right way?
> What about building columns? map(lambda s: s + ' = %s', fields)
> Is that o.k.?
Isn't
     t = [field + ' = %s' for field in fields]
clearer than
     t = map(lambda s: s + ' = %s', fields)
? your call of course.

I don't quite understand why you are building the SQL from data
but constructing the arguments in source.  I'd actually set the
SQL up directly as a string, making both the SQL and Python more
readable. To the original question, you could unconditionally
perform a queries vaguely like:

UPDATE_SQL = '''UPDATE table ...
      WHERE id = %s AND location = %s;'''
INSERT_SQL = '''INSERT INTO table(...
      WHERE NOT EXISTS(SELECT * FROM table
                       WHERE id = %s AND location = %s;);'''
I'd put the NOW() and constant args (like the 1) in the SQL itself.
then your code might become:
     row = (self.wl, name, location, id)
     self._execQuery(db, UPDATE_SQL, [row])
     self._execQuery(db, INSERT_SQL, [row + (location, id)])
if _execQuery is like the standard Python DB interfaces.  Having
the SQL do the checking means you allows the DB to check its
index and use that result to control the operation, simplifying
the Python code without significantly affecting the the DB work
needed.  The "SELECT *" form in the EXIST test is something DB
optimizers look for, so don't fret about wasted data movement.



--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From rcdailey at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 10:41:52 2009
From: rcdailey at gmail.com (Robert Dailey)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 07:41:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> 
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<8c7f10c60908120121v4bbf9040h9da68a650ef48566@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4A82C355.8080304@sequans.com>
	
Message-ID: <77a10bad-e0fe-4d50-95b2-f2f92a665001@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 12, 9:09?am, exar... at twistedmatrix.com wrote:
> On 01:27 pm, jeanmic... at sequans.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >Simon Brunning wrote:
> >>2009/8/11 Robert Dailey :
> >>>On Aug 11, 3:40 pm, Bearophile  wrote:
> >>>>There are gals too here.
> >>>It's a figure of speech. And besides, why would I want programming
> >>>advice from a woman? lol. Thanks for the help.
>
> >>Give the attitudes still prevalent in our industry (cf
> >> and many more), I'm sorry to say that I
> >>don't think this is funny.
> >Having someone present technical informations with porn content cannot
> >be qualified as "prevalent in our industry". I would even dare to say
> >this is the opposite, it is almost unique.
> >I would also add that Robert was very far from this attitude, I
> >consider his joke as a friendly tickle, not a male chauvinist
> >aggression. I'm no women, but I'm sure they are as capable as me, not
> >to say more, of making the distinction.
>
> >It has been said this list is not very friendly to newbies, let's not
> >make it hostile to gentle jokes (even those not funny) when thanking
> >helpers.
>
> It's lots of little things like this which combine to create an
> environment which is less friendly towards women than it is towards
> others. ?You might read it as a joke, others might not. ?Even if it is a
> joke, it's in poor taste and doesn't really belong on python-list.
>
> There's a difference between pointing out inappropriate behavior and
> being unfriendly. ?Hopefully Robert got help with his problem. ?That's
> what the list is here for. ?Having accomplished that, it is not
> unfriendly to ask him not to make disparaging comments, "jokes" or
> otherwise, about groups of people.
>
> Jean-Paul

Hey everyone,

I was actually joking about my remark, I was making fun of the fact
that Bearophile took my figure of speech literally. I have worked with
a lot of women in the past and they even use "guys" to refer to
everyone in a room (When there were obviously other females in that
room as well).

On a more serious note, I do apologize to those offended by my remark.
I realize that these things can be a touchy subject for some people. I
expected more of a laid-back attitude from everyone. No need to be so
serious all the time. I cannot completely doubt that there are logical
women out there. I just haven't seen one yet. But that doesn't mean
I'm a sexist.

With my apology presented, I would like to propose that we end the
discussion here. As I said, this is a very sensitive subject and this
thread could spin way out of control if we don't just ignore the
issue. For those that took it as a friendly, harmless joke, hopefully
you had a laugh. For those that took it seriously or as an offense,
please take my apology to heart. Thanks once again to everyone for
your help. I've long been a member of this community and I really
appreciate the continuous support I've been receiving!

Take care everyone!


From rcdailey at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 10:47:58 2009
From: rcdailey at gmail.com (Robert Dailey)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 07:47:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> 
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<8c7f10c60908120121v4bbf9040h9da68a650ef48566@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4A82C355.8080304@sequans.com>
	 
	<77a10bad-e0fe-4d50-95b2-f2f92a665001@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1b527b08-8b49-4bff-a192-215565feacf3@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 12, 9:41?am, Robert Dailey  wrote:
> On Aug 12, 9:09?am, exar... at twistedmatrix.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 01:27 pm, jeanmic... at sequans.com wrote:
>
> > >Simon Brunning wrote:
> > >>2009/8/11 Robert Dailey :
> > >>>On Aug 11, 3:40 pm, Bearophile  wrote:
> > >>>>There are gals too here.
> > >>>It's a figure of speech. And besides, why would I want programming
> > >>>advice from a woman? lol. Thanks for the help.
>
> > >>Give the attitudes still prevalent in our industry (cf
> > >> and many more), I'm sorry to say that I
> > >>don't think this is funny.
> > >Having someone present technical informations with porn content cannot
> > >be qualified as "prevalent in our industry". I would even dare to say
> > >this is the opposite, it is almost unique.
> > >I would also add that Robert was very far from this attitude, I
> > >consider his joke as a friendly tickle, not a male chauvinist
> > >aggression. I'm no women, but I'm sure they are as capable as me, not
> > >to say more, of making the distinction.
>
> > >It has been said this list is not very friendly to newbies, let's not
> > >make it hostile to gentle jokes (even those not funny) when thanking
> > >helpers.
>
> > It's lots of little things like this which combine to create an
> > environment which is less friendly towards women than it is towards
> > others. ?You might read it as a joke, others might not. ?Even if it is a
> > joke, it's in poor taste and doesn't really belong on python-list.
>
> > There's a difference between pointing out inappropriate behavior and
> > being unfriendly. ?Hopefully Robert got help with his problem. ?That's
> > what the list is here for. ?Having accomplished that, it is not
> > unfriendly to ask him not to make disparaging comments, "jokes" or
> > otherwise, about groups of people.
>
> > Jean-Paul
>
> Hey everyone,
>
> I was actually joking about my remark, I was making fun of the fact
> that Bearophile took my figure of speech literally. I have worked with
> a lot of women in the past and they even use "guys" to refer to
> everyone in a room (When there were obviously other females in that
> room as well).
>
> On a more serious note, I do apologize to those offended by my remark.
> I realize that these things can be a touchy subject for some people. I
> expected more of a laid-back attitude from everyone. No need to be so
> serious all the time. I cannot completely doubt that there are logical
> women out there. I just haven't seen one yet. But that doesn't mean
> I'm a sexist.
>
> With my apology presented, I would like to propose that we end the
> discussion here. As I said, this is a very sensitive subject and this
> thread could spin way out of control if we don't just ignore the
> issue. For those that took it as a friendly, harmless joke, hopefully
> you had a laugh. For those that took it seriously or as an offense,
> please take my apology to heart. Thanks once again to everyone for
> your help. I've long been a member of this community and I really
> appreciate the continuous support I've been receiving!
>
> Take care everyone!

Oh, one last thing... So everyone knows, I chose the following
formatting solution to multiline strings:

def MyFunction():
   multilineString = (
      'This is a string that spans '
      'multiple lines.'
      )
   print( multilineString )

I think this is as good as it is going to get for my personal needs.
However, I do not like having to put a space at the end of each
string. I've also done this in the past, which is slightly more ugly:

  multilineString = (
     'This is a string that spans',
     'multiple lines.'
     )
  print( ' '.join( multilineString ) )

This will add the spaces between lines for you. However, in a
production quality application I would always have strings external to
the scripts and have an advanced localization system. However this is
useful for quick little scripts that I want to keep tidy.


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Aug 12 10:49:51 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 15:49:51 +0100
Subject: best practice for documenting a project? pydoc?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Esmail wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> A project that I have been working on is getting larger
> and more complex, and I would like to unload some of the
> information from my memory/head to some other media (a
> set of web pages?). I am primarily interested in documenting
> the classes/methods.
> 
> This documentation is primarily for my use only - as I can't
> continuously work on this project and have to come back to it
> after some time, it would be nice to have some documentation
> available to help jog my memory.
> 
> What is the best way to do this in an automated way? I have
> been documenting my code as I've gone along.
> 
> Is pydoc still the way to go, or should I use something else?
> 
> Thanks,
> Esmail
> 
The docs for the constraint package look good, see
http://labix.org/python-constraint and http://labix.org/doc/constraint.
I think they've been produced with epydoc see http://epydoc.sourceforge.net/

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Wed Aug 12 11:08:32 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 12 Aug 2009 15:08:32 GMT
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	
	<7f7c3e90-6026-411f-8b4a-829798819128@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
	<0292a134$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<3a15345c-9d01-48ab-8f15-dd6053ea70a0@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0292cb5a$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 06:24:18 -0700, Paul Boddie wrote:

> On 12 Aug, 14:08, Steven D'Aprano  cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>>
>> With tens of millions of web users, it's no surprise that Wikipedia can
>> attract thousands of editors. But this does not apply to Python, which
>> starts from a comparatively tiny population, primarily those interested
>> in Python. Have a look at the Wikipedia page for Python.
> 
> What does the Python entry on Wikipedia have to do with editing the
> Python documentation in a Wiki? 

Good question. I was responding to you mentioning Wikipedia as a possible 
role model for the Python docs.


> Once everyone has agreed that the
> description of Python on Wikipedia is reasonable, there's not much point
> in editing it, is there? 

And once we're all fabulously wealthy, there won't be any point in anyone 
working any more either!

The problem for your argument is, even if it were correct, not everyone 
agrees the Python article is "reasonable" -- there were three edits made 
since the 7th of this month. And before that, there was a stream of 22 
edits on the 5th, and another 25 edits since the  8th of July. Obviously 
the Python article is still in active development.

Some of those edits were, apparently, vandalism, which gives yet another 
reason why the Wikipedia model is not necessarily the right model to 
follow.


> In contrast, there's a continuous stream of
> people who don't think Python's documentation is that great.

And a great flood of those who think it's pretty good and gets the job 
done adequately, and a trickle of those who think it's perfect just the 
way it is.

It's not the people who suggest improvements to the docs that are the 
problem, but the ones who insist that the docs are terrible, but aren't 
willing to do anything but complain. Oh, and trolls like ... I hesitate 
to mention his name in case he has a bot monitoring the list ... first 
name starts with "X" followed by "ah", second name sounds like "Mee" ... 
who even if they make a few good points, they're lost in a sea of insults 
to others, arrogance and self-aggrandisement.


>> And the Python time-machine strikes again:
>>
>> http://wiki.python.org/moin/
> 
> And I suggested that the complainants use it as a starting point.

Sorry, I seem to have missed that.


> [...]
> 
>> Oh dear me. You mean that they don't agree that YOUR time is more
>> important than theirs??? What horrible people they must be, to expect
>> you to sacrifice some of your sleep time just so *they* can get some
>> sleep themselves!!! Who do they think they are???
> 
> That's quite an attempt to make my position more extreme than it
> actually is. 

Well, you did raise the issue of the sacrifices you were making to report 
these bugs. All I did was exaggerate the attitude a tad.


> I get people asking me to improve my own software, you
> know, and even if I don't have the time or inclination to do what they
> ask, I do spend time discussing it with them. Such people, including
> myself when I'm on the other side of the fence, appreciate more than
> just a brush-off and no: they don't insist that their own time be valued
> above anyone else's 

Then you're incredibly lucky to attract a better class of end-users. In 
my experience, most end-users won't even spend the effort to describe the 
problem they're having beyond "it doesn't work". And they usually 
misspell that.



> (as you would have me misrepresented); they just ask
> that their own efforts aren't treated as having no value because they're
> not part of the "elite" development team. You get various projects doing
> soul-searching about embracing the efforts of non-programmers, and the
> first port of call on that particular voyage is to not treat them like
> idiot consumers whose remarks can only be considered as mere heckling
> while the visionaries act out their flawless production.

A noble vision, but wait until the idiot heckling consumers discover your 
software, then we'll see how much time you're prepared to give them.



> 
> Paul
> 
> P.S. The mention of "social problems" ties in with other remarks made
> recently, and I've increasingly found it more trouble than has been
> worthwhile to pursue Python-related matters of late. When one tries to
> encourage people to participate in improving various things, which
> usually means the community having to accept a degree of criticism,
> people claim that it's encouraging "undesirable" influences to point
> such critics in the right direction instead of showing them the door.

Can you point me to a discussion where this has happened?


> When one tries to pursue such improvement matters oneself, people always
> have something to say about the choice of technology or whether they
> like the particular background colour being used 

You've discovered bike-shedding.

> or indeed have an
> opinion, typically shallow and negative, about anything but the task at
> hand, 

When you're agitating for change, anyone defending the status quo has 
opinions which are shallow and negative. When you're happy with the 
status quo, possibly even for good, rational reasons and not just because 
you're a shallow-minded, ignorant, know-nothing nay-sayer, it's those 
agitating for change who have shallow and negative opinions. It's such a 
bother trying to determine who is right, so I prefer to just accuse the 
other guy of being shallow and negative rather than try to understand his 
point of view. I find it saves time in the long run.


> and there'll always be someone queuing up to dismantle anything
> that does get done at the first opportunity. In contrast, I've found
> other groups of people to be grateful for even modest technical
> assistance, and I know that such people are much more likely to get my
> support and input in the future than those who think that it's some kind
> of advantage to have potential contributors run the gauntlet of denial
> (that there are structural problems in their project), skepticism (that
> newcomers can have anything to contribute), discouragement (because any
> solution which doesn't validate someone's technology preferences must be
> criticised) and, indeed, outright hostility.

I'm having trouble parsing the semantics of that sentence, so please 
excuse me for any misunderstandings.

There seems to be a hidden assumption in your sentence that there *are* 
structural problems in the project. Now obviously no project is 
"perfect", and we all know of cases where a group of people immersed in a 
project will become so close to it that they can't see the rotten trees 
for the wood, so to speak. But generally, the people in the project have 
a very good understanding of the project's strengths and weaknesses, 
because they've been living with it for a long, long time, and it's new-
comers, who don't know the tools, don't know the libraries, aren't 
familiar with the conventions, and don't know the reasons for the 
decisions made, who can't see the trees for the wood.

It's not experienced Python developers who write really slow Java code in 
Python, it's Java developers. And I'm sure the opposite occurs too: 
Python developers learning Java for the first time will struggle to write 
idiomatic Java code, and will criticise *the wrong things* because 
they're thinking like Python developers.

You're expecting outsiders to bring in fresh insights that the jaded, 
stuck-in-a-rut locals can't see. Well, it happens. But for every time it 
happens, there's a hundred outsiders who come along and say the 
equivalent of "What, no GOTO? Well this sucks."




-- 
Steven


From petshmidt at googlemail.com  Wed Aug 12 11:09:02 2009
From: petshmidt at googlemail.com (Pet)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 08:09:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: better way?
References: <9899e909-509e-47d4-a8e5-f9d70e0b8827@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<78a18b9b-f29e-432f-9fe4-8c250cb08edb@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<87skfyjen8.fsf@golux.woodcraft.me.uk> 
	
	<6733c8fe-9ef8-4010-9b23-27538e19d8ff@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<3tSdnTBlOchPUh_XnZ2dnUVZ_oGdnZ2d@pdx.net>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 12, 4:29?pm, Scott David Daniels  wrote:
> Pet wrote:
> > On 11 Aug., 22:19, "Rami Chowdhury"  wrote:
> >> Ah, my apologies, I must have been getting it confused with ON UPDATE ?
> >> [things]. Thanks for correcting me.
>
> >> On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:10:03 -0700, Matthew Woodcraft ?
>
> >>  wrote:
> >>> "Rami Chowdhury"  writes:
> >>>> IIRC Postgres has had ON DUPLICATE KEY UPDATE functionality longer than
> >>>> MySQL...
> >>> PostgreSQL does not have ON DUPLICATE KEY UPDATE.
> >>> The SQL standard way to do what the OP wants is MERGE. PostgreSQL
> >>> doesn't have that either.
>
> > So, I'm doing it in right way?
> > What about building columns? map(lambda s: s + ' = %s', fields)
> > Is that o.k.?
>
> Isn't
> ? ? ?t = [field + ' = %s' for field in fields]
> clearer than
> ? ? ?t = map(lambda s: s + ' = %s', fields)
> ? your call of course.

Yes, I think so

> I don't quite understand why you are building the SQL from data
> but constructing the arguments in source. ?I'd actually set the
> SQL up directly as a string, making both the SQL and Python more

Sometimes, column list could be long, besides I keep column list in
sync for both update and insert query

> readable. To the original question, you could unconditionally
> perform a queries vaguely like:
>
> UPDATE_SQL = '''UPDATE table ...
> ? ? ? WHERE id = %s AND location = %s;'''
> INSERT_SQL = '''INSERT INTO table(...
> ? ? ? WHERE NOT EXISTS(SELECT * FROM table
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?WHERE id = %s AND location = %s;);'''
> I'd put the NOW() and constant args (like the 1) in the SQL itself.

yes, but I'm building both UPDATE in INSERT from same list of columns,
so I didn't found better way as this one


> then your code might become:
> ? ? ?row = (self.wl, name, location, id)
> ? ? ?self._execQuery(db, UPDATE_SQL, [row])
> ? ? ?self._execQuery(db, INSERT_SQL, [row + (location, id)])

I'm going to rebuild my queries like that.

Thank you very much!


> if _execQuery is like the standard Python DB interfaces. ?Having
> the SQL do the checking means you allows the DB to check its
> index and use that result to control the operation, simplifying
> the Python code without significantly affecting the the DB work
> needed. ?The "SELECT *" form in the EXIST test is something DB
> optimizers look for, so don't fret about wasted data movement.
>
> --Scott David Daniels
> Scott.Dani... at Acm.Org



From sajmikins at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 11:11:43 2009
From: sajmikins at gmail.com (Simon Forman)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 08:11:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> 
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<8c7f10c60908120121v4bbf9040h9da68a650ef48566@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4A82C355.8080304@sequans.com>
	 
	<77a10bad-e0fe-4d50-95b2-f2f92a665001@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 12, 10:41?am, Robert Dailey  wrote:
> On Aug 12, 9:09?am, exar... at twistedmatrix.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 01:27 pm, jeanmic... at sequans.com wrote:
>
> > >Simon Brunning wrote:
> > >>2009/8/11 Robert Dailey :
> > >>>On Aug 11, 3:40 pm, Bearophile  wrote:
> > >>>>There are gals too here.
> > >>>It's a figure of speech. And besides, why would I want programming
> > >>>advice from a woman? lol. Thanks for the help.
>
> > >>Give the attitudes still prevalent in our industry (cf
> > >> and many more), I'm sorry to say that I
> > >>don't think this is funny.
> > >Having someone present technical informations with porn content cannot
> > >be qualified as "prevalent in our industry". I would even dare to say
> > >this is the opposite, it is almost unique.
> > >I would also add that Robert was very far from this attitude, I
> > >consider his joke as a friendly tickle, not a male chauvinist
> > >aggression. I'm no women, but I'm sure they are as capable as me, not
> > >to say more, of making the distinction.
>
> > >It has been said this list is not very friendly to newbies, let's not
> > >make it hostile to gentle jokes (even those not funny) when thanking
> > >helpers.
>
> > It's lots of little things like this which combine to create an
> > environment which is less friendly towards women than it is towards
> > others. ?You might read it as a joke, others might not. ?Even if it is a
> > joke, it's in poor taste and doesn't really belong on python-list.
>
> > There's a difference between pointing out inappropriate behavior and
> > being unfriendly. ?Hopefully Robert got help with his problem. ?That's
> > what the list is here for. ?Having accomplished that, it is not
> > unfriendly to ask him not to make disparaging comments, "jokes" or
> > otherwise, about groups of people.
>
> > Jean-Paul
>
> Hey everyone,
>
> I was actually joking about my remark, I was making fun of the fact
> that Bearophile took my figure of speech literally. I have worked with
> a lot of women in the past and they even use "guys" to refer to
> everyone in a room (When there were obviously other females in that
> room as well).
>
> On a more serious note, I do apologize to those offended by my remark.
> I realize that these things can be a touchy subject for some people. I
> expected more of a laid-back attitude from everyone. No need to be so
> serious all the time. I cannot completely doubt that there are logical
> women out there. I just haven't seen one yet. But that doesn't mean
> I'm a sexist.

Oh my.  And you were doing so well.  You haven't seen a logical
woman?  Perhaps you're blind because your eyes were torn out by a
raging marmoset?

Guess what?  Thinking (or just saying) that /does/ mean you're a
sexist.  (Even if it was just another "friendly, harmless joke".)




> With my apology presented, I would like to propose that we end the
> discussion here. As I said, this is a very sensitive subject and this
> thread could spin way out of control if we don't just ignore the
> issue. For those that took it as a friendly, harmless joke, hopefully
> you had a laugh. For those that took it seriously or as an offense,
> please take my apology to heart. Thanks once again to everyone for
> your help. I've long been a member of this community and I really
> appreciate the continuous support I've been receiving!
>
> Take care everyone!



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Wed Aug 12 11:26:12 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 12 Aug 2009 15:26:12 GMT
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<8c7f10c60908120121v4bbf9040h9da68a650ef48566@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A82C355.8080304@sequans.com>
	
	<77a10bad-e0fe-4d50-95b2-f2f92a665001@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<1b527b08-8b49-4bff-a192-215565feacf3@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0292cf7e$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 07:47:58 -0700, Robert Dailey wrote:

> On Aug 12, 9:41?am, Robert Dailey  wrote:
... 
> > I was actually joking about my remark, I was making fun of the fact
> > that Bearophile took my figure of speech literally. 

Keep in mind that the Internet is a global forum, and not everyone here 
speaks English as a first language. I believe Bearophile is one of those. 
Although his, or possibly her, English is excellent, it wouldn't surprise 
me that (s)he would misinterpret "guys" as just referring to men. I'm a 
native English speaker, and I would have done the same.


> > I have worked with
> > a lot of women in the past and they even use "guys" to refer to
> > everyone in a room (When there were obviously other females in that
> > room as well).

Yes, I've seen this myself, but it's still uncommon enough to surprise me 
every time I see it.


> > On a more serious note, I do apologize to those offended by my remark.
> > I realize that these things can be a touchy subject for some people. I
> > expected more of a laid-back attitude from everyone. No need to be so
> > serious all the time. I cannot completely doubt that there are logical
> > women out there. I just haven't seen one yet. 

That's okay, I haven't seen terribly many logical men out there either.


> Oh, one last thing... So everyone knows, I chose the following
> formatting solution to multiline strings:
> 
> def MyFunction():
>    multilineString = (
>       'This is a string that spans '
>       'multiple lines.'
>       )
>    print( multilineString )
> 
> I think this is as good as it is going to get for my personal needs.
> However, I do not like having to put a space at the end of each
> string. 

So put them at the beginning of the next line. It makes the space more 
obvious, so it's clearer what you have done. That's what I sometimes do.


> I've also done this in the past, which is slightly more ugly:
> 
>   multilineString = (
>      'This is a string that spans',
>      'multiple lines.'
>      )
>   print( ' '.join( multilineString ) )


It's also less efficient, as it does the concatenation at runtime instead 
of compile time. But for a small script, that's not likely to be a 
problem worth worrying about.
 


-- 
Steven


From shaileshk at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 11:33:55 2009
From: shaileshk at gmail.com (shaileshkumar)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 08:33:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: best practice for documenting a project? pydoc?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

Hello,

EPYDOC is very good for automatic generation of documentation from
source code.

You may also consider Sphinx http://sphinx.pocoo.org/ which is used
for many
projects including the official Python documentation, documentation of
Zope (http://docs.zope.org/).
See the full list of projects using Sphinx at http://sphinx.pocoo.org/examples.html

- Shailesh


On Aug 12, 7:49?pm, Mark Lawrence  wrote:
> Esmail wrote:
> > Hello,
>
> > A project that I have been working on is getting larger
> > and more complex, and I would like to unload some of the
> > information from my memory/head to some other media (a
> > set of web pages?). I am primarily interested in documenting
> > the classes/methods.
>
> > This documentation is primarily for my use only - as I can't
> > continuously work on this project and have to come back to it
> > after some time, it would be nice to have some documentation
> > available to help jog my memory.
>
> > What is the best way to do this in an automated way? I have
> > been documenting my code as I've gone along.
>
> > Is pydoc still the way to go, or should I use something else?
>
> > Thanks,
> > Esmail
>
> The docs for the constraint package look good, seehttp://labix.org/python-constraintandhttp://labix.org/doc/constraint.
> I think they've been produced with epydoc seehttp://epydoc.sourceforge.net/
>
> --
> Kindest regards.
>
> Mark Lawrence.



From shaileshk at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 11:50:14 2009
From: shaileshk at gmail.com (shaileshkumar)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 08:50:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: httplib incredibly slow :-(
References: <4A81FDF5.6010508@simplistix.co.uk>
	<4A8274A9.7000905@simplistix.co.uk> 
	
Message-ID: 

We use PyCURL on Windows. http://pycurl.sourceforge.net/ provides pre-
built versions for Windows and it works out of the box.

- Shailesh



On Aug 12, 7:14?pm, Max Erickson  wrote:
> Chris Withers  wrote:
>
> > I'm still reeling from what seems to be such a huge problem with
> > httplib that seem to be largely ignored :-(
>
> > Chris
>
> There is an httplib2 (but I don't know anything further about it...):
>
> http://code.google.com/p/httplib2/
>
> Calling wget or curl using a subprocess is probably as easy as it is
> ugly, I use the wget build from here:
>
> http://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/packages/wget.htm
>
> max



From shaileshk at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 11:56:03 2009
From: shaileshk at gmail.com (shaileshkumar)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 08:56:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Programming by Contract
References: <4A7A15CD.9090306@stoneleaf.us> <4A81C6B8.7010605@stoneleaf.us> 
	<18F0FD2E-7C01-4B1C-85DF-28433C23D886@declareSub.com>
	
Message-ID: <78b17cf4-1e7b-4134-8626-2c352107ac27@f20g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

zope.interface provides extensive support for design by contract.
http://pypi.python.org/pypi/zope.interface.
This package can be used independently of zope in other projects.
- Shailesh

On Aug 12, 2:20?am, Ethan Furman  wrote:
> Charles Yeomans wrote:
>
> > On Aug 11, 2009, at 3:30 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
>
> >> Ethan Furman wrote:
>
> >>> Greetings!
> >>> I have seen posts about the assert statement and PbC (or maybe it ?
> >>> was DbC), and I just took a very brief look at pycontract
> >>> (http://www.wayforward.net/pycontract/) and now I have at least one
> >>> question: ?Is this basically another ?way of thinking about unit
> >>> testing, or is the idea of PbC more ?along the lines of *always*
> >>> checking the input/output of functions ?to ensure they are correct? ?
> >>> (*Contstant vigilance!* as Prof Moody ?would say ;)
> >>> I know asserts can be turned off, so they obviously won't work for ?
> >>> the latter case, and having seen the sample of pycontract it seems ?
> >>> it only does its thing during debugging.
> >>> So is Design (Programming) by Contract a fancy way of saying ?
> >>> "Document your inputs/outputs!" or is there more to it?
> >>> ~Ethan~
>
> >> Hmmm...
>
> >> Well, from the (apparently) complete lack of interest, I shall take ?
> >> away the (better?) documentation ideas and unit testing ideas, and ?
> >> not worry about the rest. ?:)
>
> > Design by contract is complementary to unit testing (I notice that the ?
> > author of PEP 316 appears confused about this). ?DbC is, roughly ?
> > speaking, about explicit allocation of responsibility. ?Consider this ?
> > contrived example.
>
> > def foo(s):
> > ? ? require(s is not None)
> > ? ? //code
> > ? ? ensure(hasattr(returnValue, '__iter__'))
>
> > The require condition tells you that it's the caller's responsibility ?
> > to pass a non-nil argument to foo. ?The ensure condition is a ?guarantee
> > that foo will return something suitable for iteration, if ?the
> > precondition in the require condition is satisfied. ?These ?conditions
> > can be enforced at runtime, but may not be, for reasons of ?performance.
>
> > DbC is in fact about not *always* checking the input/output of ?
> > functions; on the contrary, Bertrand Meyer, the inventor of DbC, ?claims
> > that DbC allows one to eliminate such redundancy, and the ?resulting
> > overhead.
>
> > Charles Yeomans
>
> Many thanks!
>
> So if I understand -- Python's EAFP fits well with DbC, as DbC seems
> well suited to say, "This is your responsibility, and this is mine,"
> stated in programming terms (who needs comments? ;) ?Combined with unit
> testing (which should be easier to design correctly given the DbC code),
> healthy code seems more attainable.
>
> Interesting. ?Thank you for the information.
>
> ~Ethan~



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Wed Aug 12 11:58:28 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 12 Aug 2009 15:58:28 GMT
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<8c7f10c60908120121v4bbf9040h9da68a650ef48566@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A82C355.8080304@sequans.com>
	
	<77a10bad-e0fe-4d50-95b2-f2f92a665001@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <0292d70e$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 08:11:43 -0700, Simon Forman wrote:

[quoting Robert Dailey]
>> I cannot completely doubt that there are logical
>> women out there. I just haven't seen one yet. But that doesn't mean I'm
>> a sexist.
> 
> Oh my.  And you were doing so well.  You haven't seen a logical woman? 
> Perhaps you're blind because your eyes were torn out by a raging
> marmoset?
> 
> Guess what?  Thinking (or just saying) that /does/ mean you're a sexist.
>  (Even if it was just another "friendly, harmless joke".)

It was an incredibly insensitive thing for Robert to say, having just 
been slapped for a previous insensitive "joke" about women. But still, 
most people, male or female, *aren't* logical. I know I've never met 
somebody who is entirely logical, of either sex, and I'm pretty sure I've 
not met very many people who are even mostly logical. Vulcans we are not. 
Does this mean I'm equally sexist against men *and* women? ("I'm not 
biased, I hate everyone equally!" *wink*)

Hell, here I am, at 2am, defending somebody I don't know, for saying 
something I don't approve of, against somebody who is saying something I 
agree with, out of some sort of misguided sense of fairness. Logic? Ha, 
what's logic got to do with it?



-- 
Steven


From db3l.net at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 12:04:45 2009
From: db3l.net at gmail.com (David Bolen)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:04:45 -0400
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
Message-ID: 

Robert Dailey  writes:

> Hey guys. Being a C++ programmer, I like to keep variable definitions
> close to the location in which they will be used. This improves
> readability in many ways. However, when I have a multi-line string
> definition at function level scope, things get tricky because of the
> indents. In this case indents are serving two purposes: For syntax and
> actual text output. The tabs for function scope should not be included
> in the contents of the string. (...)

Personally I'm in the camp that something like this should be hoisted
out of the code path (whether to global scope, a dedicated message
module or configuration file is a design choice).

But if it's going to stay inline, one approach that can maintain some
of the attractive qualities of a triple quoted string is to make use
of the textwrap module:

    import textwrap

    def RunCommand( commandList ):
       # ...
       if returnCode:
           failMsg = textwrap.dedent('''\
                     *************************************************
                     The following command returned exit code [{:#x}].
                     This represents failure of some form. Please review
                     the command output for more details on the issue.
                     ------------
                     {}
                     *************************************************
                     ''')

which removes any common leading whitespace (must be identical in terms
of any tabs/spaces).

This is still additional run-time processing, and most likely less
efficient than the joining of individual strings, but it does permit a
clean triple-quoted string so IMO is easier to read/maintain in the
source - providing the code indentation level doesn't get in the way
of the desired line length of the string.  You can also choose to
dedent the string a bit (say to the level of "failMsg") if needed
without being forced all the way back to the left margin.

You can also combine textwrap.dedent with some of the other options if
where the strings are defined makes it nicer if they still have some
indentation (say in a global Python module).  In that case, you'd most
likely just process them once when the module was imported, so any
inefficiency in textwrap.dedent is far less important.

-- David


From paul at boddie.org.uk  Wed Aug 12 12:06:30 2009
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 09:06:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	
	<7f7c3e90-6026-411f-8b4a-829798819128@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
	<0292a134$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<3a15345c-9d01-48ab-8f15-dd6053ea70a0@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<0292cb5a$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

On 12 Aug, 17:08, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 06:24:18 -0700, Paul Boddie wrote:
>
> > What does the Python entry on Wikipedia have to do with editing the
> > Python documentation in a Wiki?
>
> Good question. I was responding to you mentioning Wikipedia as a possible
> role model for the Python docs.

Yes, but claiming that only a few people want to edit a single entry
on one site (admittedly a popular one) isn't the same as saying that
few people would edit a documentation Wiki covering numerous different
things. A bunch of people edit the existing Python Wiki now, although
there's not that much direction behind it.

[...]

> It's not the people who suggest improvements to the docs that are the
> problem, but the ones who insist that the docs are terrible, but aren't
> willing to do anything but complain. Oh, and trolls like ... I hesitate
> to mention his name in case he has a bot monitoring the list ... first
> name starts with "X" followed by "ah", second name sounds like "Mee" ...
> who even if they make a few good points, they're lost in a sea of insults
> to others, arrogance and self-aggrandisement.

Right, but those good points are still worth taking on board. There
have been Xah Lee posts which have been relatively constructive, but
when the only responses are from people who see the name and can't be
bothered reading the message before issuing a stock "he's a troll"
response, the tone is likely to remain vulgar from that point onwards.
Xah Lee can be quite coherent and rational on comp.lang.lisp, which is
more than can be said for a number of regulars on that group.

[...]

> > P.S. The mention of "social problems" ties in with other remarks made
> > recently, and I've increasingly found it more trouble than has been
> > worthwhile to pursue Python-related matters of late. When one tries to
> > encourage people to participate in improving various things, which
> > usually means the community having to accept a degree of criticism,
> > people claim that it's encouraging "undesirable" influences to point
> > such critics in the right direction instead of showing them the door.
>
> Can you point me to a discussion where this has happened?

I won't name names as in some cases I've corresponded privately with
various people who have been perceived to be "trolls" (as you put it
above) and who have had the "don't talk to them" responses from
various regulars. Some people criticise in apparently unacceptable
ways for their own amusement, but most critics do so because they are
unaware of any better way and aren't aware of the most effective
methods to fix the issues that bother them, and this latter group is
clearly invested in finding solutions because they could quite easily
go and use something else. Certainly, I wouldn't spend my time
repeatedly enumerating the problems with a piece of technology if no-
one were interested in helping me do something about them.

> > When one tries to pursue such improvement matters oneself, people always
> > have something to say about the choice of technology or whether they
> > like the particular background colour being used
>
> You've discovered bike-shedding.
>
> > or indeed have an
> > opinion, typically shallow and negative, about anything but the task at
> > hand,
>
> When you're agitating for change, anyone defending the status quo has
> opinions which are shallow and negative. When you're happy with the
> status quo, possibly even for good, rational reasons and not just because
> you're a shallow-minded, ignorant, know-nothing nay-sayer, it's those
> agitating for change who have shallow and negative opinions. It's such a
> bother trying to determine who is right, so I prefer to just accuse the
> other guy of being shallow and negative rather than try to understand his
> point of view. I find it saves time in the long run.

I can expand what I've written to just about any project,
"improvement" or otherwise, where there may not be an existing
solution that anyone actually supports or is willing to use. And
still, if you give people something they could use (which is better
than effectively nothing), my experience is that in some communities
your work, however trivial, will be appreciated. But I get the
impression that in Python-related communities, it's all "Why didn't
you use XYZ?" or "What a toy!" instead.

[...]

> There seems to be a hidden assumption in your sentence that there *are*
> structural problems in the project.

Let me assume that maybe the barriers aren't really that bad for
Python documentation; that anyone who is really going to care about
submitting something will jump through the hoops and deliver something
that can be merged by the core developers. Even then, there's going to
be a whole class of improvements that won't get made by outsiders and
will fall on the editors to make. Now, more often than not, the people
who are already the most overworked are precisely those in the
position of reviewing and merging changes (as well as making their
own), and surely they will want to delegate some of that work, but
it's the classic pitfall of "delegation failure": they don't have the
capacity to delegate because that just means even more work for them
as a result. Shower such people with trivial change requests or bug
reports about documentation errors, and it's clear that the processes
aren't helping the editors to do more or for an increased number of
people to usefully collaborate.

I'm almost past caring about the documentation - it's useful for most
of what I want it for - because the bulk of the documentation that I
do use concerns the standard library which looks more and more
antiquated and disorganised every time I look at its contents. I don't
see any top-down remedy for this situation - Python 3 didn't even
bother with it properly - and maybe the solution will ultimately
involve a completely independent standard library developed by people
under their own steam who will then be criticised for not choosing the
most permissive licence possible and/or being technologically
backwards in some aspect of what they've done. That would, after all,
be the "Pythonic" response I'd most expect to see.

Paul


From rcdailey at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 12:13:21 2009
From: rcdailey at gmail.com (Robert Dailey)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 09:13:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Multithreaded library for Python?
Message-ID: 

Hey guys,

I realize the python library has multithreading support in it, but not
the kind I'm really looking for. I want something like Intel's TBB,
but for Python 3.1. I need to be able to spawn off "Tasks" that
operate until completed and then end by themselves. I could create my
own framework for this, but why bother if a solution already exists?
Anyone know of any libraries out there that would work?


From dotancohen at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 12:18:43 2009
From: dotancohen at gmail.com (Dotan Cohen)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 19:18:43 +0300
Subject: Scraping Wikipedia with Python
In-Reply-To: <7xd472hz2x.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: 
	<4a81b6f0$0$1590$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	
	<6YidncRAiJ6SIxzXRVn_vwA@giganews.com>
	
	<7xd472hz2x.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <880dece00908120918u37b30c46w62a6edc850c644a9@mail.gmail.com>

> maybe you want dbpedia.

I did not know about this. Thanks!

That is the reason why I ask. This list has an unbelievable collective
knowledge and I am certain that asking "how much is 2+2" would net an
insightful answer that would teach me something.

Thank you, Paul, and thank you to the entire Python list!

-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il


From dotancohen at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 12:19:59 2009
From: dotancohen at gmail.com (Dotan Cohen)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 19:19:59 +0300
Subject: Scraping Wikipedia with Python
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<4a81b6f0$0$1590$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	
	
Message-ID: <880dece00908120919n1fb8a74cj55641eae6654040f@mail.gmail.com>

> http://pypi.python.org/pypi?%3Aaction=search&term=wikipedia ?
>

Thanks, Thorsten, I will go through those. I did not know about that
resource, I am not a regular coder. One more resource to add to the
toolbox!


-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il


From dstanek at dstanek.com  Wed Aug 12 12:28:25 2009
From: dstanek at dstanek.com (David Stanek)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:28:25 -0400
Subject: httplib incredibly slow :-(
In-Reply-To: <4A81D3CB.7080209@simplistix.co.uk>
References: <4A81D3CB.7080209@simplistix.co.uk>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 4:25 PM, Chris Withers wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I'm using the following script to download a 150Mb file:
>
> from base64 import encodestring
> from httplib import HTTPConnection
> from datetime import datetime
>
> conn = HTTPSConnection('localhost')
> headers = {}
> auth = 'Basic '+encodestring('username:password').strip()
> headers['Authorization']=auth
> t = datetime.now()
> print t
> conn.request('GET','/somefile.zip',None,headers)
> print 'request:',datetime.now()-t
> response = conn.getresponse()
> print 'response:',datetime.now()-t
> data = response.read()
> print 'read:',datetime.now()-t
>
> The output shows it takes over 20 minutes to do this.
> However, this is on a local network, and downloading the same file in IE
> takes under 3 seconds!
>
> I saw this issue:
>
> http://bugs.python.org/issue2576
>
> I tried changing the buffer size to 4096 in a subclass as the issue
> suggested, but I didn't see the reported speed improvement.
> I'm using Python 2.6.2.
>
> Does anyone know of an alternative library for creating http requests and
> getting their responses that's faster but hopefully has a similar interface?
>

I tried to reproduce this, but I could not. Could you paste in the
output of your script? Also on the same box where you run this script
can you test with curl or wget?

-- 
David
blog: http://www.traceback.org
twitter: http://twitter.com/dstanek


From hobesh at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 12:30:48 2009
From: hobesh at gmail.com (Zach Hobesh)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 09:30:48 -0700
Subject: Mimicing an HTML form
Message-ID: 

Hi all,
I'm having alot of trouble automating the submitting of form.  I have an
HTML page that works and it looks like this:














When I put valid values for the handling script an app ID, this page works.
 Now I'm trying to turn this same functionality into a script.  Here's my
code:

import urllib
import os
import urllib2

appID = *value here*
video = os.path.normpath(os.getcwd() + '/news.wmv')
title = 'News'
desc = 'Here is a sample News video'

uploader = *script here*

print "Encoding url..."
data = urllib.urlencode({"FileUploadedVideo": video,
                         "hdnADCID" : appID,
                         "txtTitle" : title,
                         "txtDescription": desc})

user_agent = 'Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows NT)'
headers = { 'User-Agent' : user_agent }


print "Calling url..."
req = urllib2.Request(uploader, data, headers)

response = urllib2.urlopen(req)
s = response.read()
response.close()

print "Writing results..."
result = open('result.html','w')
result.write(s)
result.close()

Does anybody have any suggestions?  I keep on getting bad request, so I'm
assuming that the html page is passing something that my script is not.  Is
there some way to scrape the POST request from the html form?

Thanks,

Zach
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From chris at simplistix.co.uk  Wed Aug 12 12:37:48 2009
From: chris at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 17:37:48 +0100
Subject: httplib incredibly slow :-(
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4A81D3CB.7080209@simplistix.co.uk>
	
Message-ID: <4A82EFDC.70502@simplistix.co.uk>

David Stanek wrote:
> I tried to reproduce this, but I could not. Could you paste in the
> output of your script? 

Not sure how that'll help, but sure:

2009-08-11 21:27:59.153000
request: 0:00:00.109000
response: 0:00:00.109000
read: 0:24:31.266000

 > Also on the same box where you run this script
> can you test with curl or wget?

It's a Windows box, so no :-(
But it really does download in a few seconds with IE, and 20min+ using 
the script I included...

Chris

-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting
            - http://www.simplistix.co.uk


From ebonak at hotmail.com  Wed Aug 12 12:42:17 2009
From: ebonak at hotmail.com (Esmail)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:42:17 -0400
Subject: best practice for documenting a project? pydoc?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	
	
Message-ID: 

shaileshkumar wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> EPYDOC is very good for automatic generation of documentation from
> source code.
> 
> You may also consider Sphinx http://sphinx.pocoo.org/ which is used
> for many
> projects including the official Python documentation, documentation of
> Zope (http://docs.zope.org/).
> See the full list of projects using Sphinx at http://sphinx.pocoo.org/examples.html
> 
> - Shailesh

Hi,

Thanks for the links. Have you heard of something called HappyDoc? I just
came across it by looking for info on epydoc.

Thanks,
Esmail



From ebonak at hotmail.com  Wed Aug 12 12:43:04 2009
From: ebonak at hotmail.com (Esmail)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:43:04 -0400
Subject: best practice for documenting a project? pydoc?
In-Reply-To: 
References:  
Message-ID: 

Mark Lawrence wrote:
Hi Mark,

> The docs for the constraint package look good, see
> http://labix.org/python-constraint and http://labix.org/doc/constraint.
> I think they've been produced with epydoc see 
> http://epydoc.sourceforge.net/

Thanks for the links, I'll take a look.

Any experience with something called HappyDoc? Just came across it.

Esmail




From mdekauwe at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 12:43:11 2009
From: mdekauwe at gmail.com (Martin)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 09:43:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: matching patterns after regex?
References: <61bef795-f146-4bdd-b5b3-a212e6d9197c@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<2387d409-110a-451d-b301-6d7fe4abc793@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> 
	 
	<0292a4a9$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<18d5d342-b678-4101-a284-24d6176ac856@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 12, 1:42 pm, Martin  wrote:
> On Aug 12, 1:23 pm, Steven D'Aprano 
>
>
> cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> > On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 05:12:22 -0700, Martin wrote:
> > > I tried
>
> > > re.findall((\w+COORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.\w-]+),s)
>
> > You need to put quotes around strings.
>
> > In this case, because you're using regular expressions, you should use a
> > raw string:
>
> > re.findall(r"(\w+COORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.\w-]+)",s)
>
> > will probably work.
>
> > --
> > Steven
>
> Thanks I see.
>
> so I tried it and if I use it as it is, it matches the first instance:
> I
> n [594]: re.findall(r"(\w+COORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.\w-]+)",s)
> Out[594]: [('NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE', '1')]
>
> So I adjusted the first part of the regex, on the basis I could sub
> NORTH for SOUTH etc.
>
> In [595]: re.findall(r"(NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.
> \w-]+)",s)
> Out[595]: [('NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE', '1')]
>
> But in both cases it doesn't return the decimal value rather the value
> that comes after NUM_VAL = , rather than VALUE = ?

I think I kind of got that to work...but I am clearly not quite
understanding how it works as I tried to use it again to match
something else.

In this case I want to print the values 0.000000 and 2223901.039333
from a string like this...

YDim=1200\n\t\tUpperLeftPointMtrs=(0.000000,2223901.039333)\n\t\t

I tried which I though was matching the statement and printing the
decimal number after the equals sign??

re.findall(r"(\w+UpperLeftPointMtrs)*=\s([\d\.\w-]+)", s)

where s is the string

Many thanks for the help


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Wed Aug 12 12:46:32 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 09:46:32 -0700
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>		<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>		<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>		<7f7c3e90-6026-411f-8b4a-829798819128@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>	<0292a134$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<3a15345c-9d01-48ab-8f15-dd6053ea70a0@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>	<0292cb5a$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <4A82F1E8.3090105@stoneleaf.us>

Paul Boddie wrote:
> On 12 Aug, 17:08, Steven D'Aprano  cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>>It's not the people who suggest improvements to the docs that are the
>>problem, but the ones who insist that the docs are terrible, but aren't
>>willing to do anything but complain. Oh, and trolls like ... I hesitate
>>to mention his name in case he has a bot monitoring the list ... first
>>name starts with "X" followed by "ah", second name sounds like "Mee" ...
>>who even if they make a few good points, they're lost in a sea of insults
>>to others, arrogance and self-aggrandisement.
> 
> 
> Right, but those good points are still worth taking on board. 

The responsibility for communication is shared.  How much to each party 
varies by circumstance (employer/employee, rank, volunteer, etc.).  For 
myself, his posts are automatically deleted -- my time is precious to me.

~Ethan~


From chris at simplistix.co.uk  Wed Aug 12 12:53:56 2009
From: chris at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 17:53:56 +0100
Subject: httplib incredibly slow :-(
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4A81FDF5.6010508@simplistix.co.uk>	<4A8274A9.7000905@simplistix.co.uk>
	
	
Message-ID: <4A82F3A4.8020903@simplistix.co.uk>

shaileshkumar wrote:
> We use PyCURL on Windows. http://pycurl.sourceforge.net/ provides pre-
> built versions for Windows and it works out of the box.

Does it include libcurl? Are these builds available for Python 2.6?

Chris

-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting
            - http://www.simplistix.co.uk


From chris at simplistix.co.uk  Wed Aug 12 12:57:16 2009
From: chris at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 17:57:16 +0100
Subject: httplib incredibly slow :-(
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4A81FDF5.6010508@simplistix.co.uk>	<4A8274A9.7000905@simplistix.co.uk>
	
Message-ID: <4A82F46C.4080105@simplistix.co.uk>

Max Erickson wrote:
> There is an httplib2 (but I don't know anything further about it...):
> 
> http://code.google.com/p/httplib2/

I had a look, it uses httplib, so will likely suffer from the same 
problems...

> Calling wget or curl using a subprocess is probably as easy as it is 
> ugly, I use the wget build from here:
> 
> http://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/packages/wget.htm

Yeah, no ;-)

Chris

-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting
            - http://www.simplistix.co.uk


From shaileshk at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 13:00:08 2009
From: shaileshk at gmail.com (Shailesh Kumar)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 22:30:08 +0530
Subject: httplib incredibly slow :-(
In-Reply-To: <4A82F3A4.8020903@simplistix.co.uk>
References: <4A81FDF5.6010508@simplistix.co.uk>
	<4A8274A9.7000905@simplistix.co.uk>
	
	
	<4A82F3A4.8020903@simplistix.co.uk>
Message-ID: <92e4c3710908121000y3bcc8de6w56f767d78aa34ba6@mail.gmail.com>

Yes it includes libcurl. I didn't have to install it separately. I still
continue to use Python 2.4. So cannot say about Python 2.6.

- Shailesh

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 10:23 PM, Chris Withers wrote:

> shaileshkumar wrote:
>
>> We use PyCURL on Windows. http://pycurl.sourceforge.net/ provides pre-
>> built versions for Windows and it works out of the box.
>>
>
> Does it include libcurl? Are these builds available for Python 2.6?
>
> Chris
>
> --
> Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting
>           - http://www.simplistix.co.uk
>
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From no.email at please.post  Wed Aug 12 13:01:01 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 17:01:01 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to find all possibly overlapping matches?
Message-ID: 



re.findall finds all non-overlapping matches, but what if one wants
all (maximal) matches, even those that overlap?

All the solutions I can come up involve calling re.search iteratively,
each time giving it a pos parameter starting just after the start
of the previous match.

Is there a built-in solution to such a task?

TIA!

kynn


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Aug 12 13:23:21 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 18:23:21 +0100
Subject: How to find all possibly overlapping matches?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A82FA89.1040503@mrabarnett.plus.com>

kj wrote:
> 
> re.findall finds all non-overlapping matches, but what if one wants
> all (maximal) matches, even those that overlap?
> 
> All the solutions I can come up involve calling re.search iteratively,
> each time giving it a pos parameter starting just after the start
> of the previous match.
> 
> Is there a built-in solution to such a task?
> 
Not in the re module.

It has been requested and is in my regex implementation at
http://bugs.python.org/issue2636 if you want to try that.


From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 13:23:50 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 10:23:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<3611ca55-79a6-4336-9041-07d0893789f7@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
	<0447e8a2-508d-45b2-8d15-da0cc2a56b5f@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	
	 
	<0291a21a$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<8152546e-1f6f-4ea5-9b10-e1d9b5ffdab8@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	
	<1a0e1e6d-d902-4df7-8d35-850c4f62cc9c@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 12, 3:08?am, Steven D'Aprano
 wrote:

> On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:48:24 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:
> > In any case, my argument has consistently been that Python should have
> > treated undefined escape sequences consistently as fatal errors,
>
> A reasonable position to take. I disagree with it, but it is certainly
> reasonable.
>
> > not as warnings.
>
> I don't know what language you're talking about here, because non-special
> escape sequences in Python aren't either errors or warnings:
>
> >>> print "ab\cd"
>
> ab\cd

I was talking about C++, whose compilers tend to generate warnings for
this usage. I think that the C++ compilers I've used take the right
approach, only ideally they should be *even* more emphatic, and
elevate the problem from a warning to an error.

I assume, however, that the warning is a middle ground between doing
the completely right thing, and, I assume, maintaining backward
compatibility with common C implementations. As Python never had to
worry about backward compatibility with C, Python didn't have to walk
such a middle ground.

On the other hand, *now* it has to worry about backward compatibility
with itself.

|>ouglas




From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Aug 12 13:31:12 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 18:31:12 +0100
Subject: best practice for documenting a project? pydoc?
In-Reply-To: 
References:  
	
Message-ID: 

Esmail wrote:
> Mark Lawrence wrote:
> Hi Mark,
> 
>> The docs for the constraint package look good, see
>> http://labix.org/python-constraint and http://labix.org/doc/constraint.
>> I think they've been produced with epydoc see 
>> http://epydoc.sourceforge.net/
> 
> Thanks for the links, I'll take a look.
> 
> Any experience with something called HappyDoc? Just came across it.
> 
> Esmail
> 
> 
Sorry never heard of it, or if I had I've forgotten it.

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From davea at ieee.org  Wed Aug 12 13:35:45 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 13:35:45 -0400
Subject: fileinput
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A82FD71.70501@ieee.org>

naaman wrote:
> I'm writing my first Python script and
> I want to use fileinput to open a file in r+ mode.
> Tried fileinput.input(sys.argv[1:],"r+") but that didn't work.
> ANy ideas?
>
> Need to find and overwrite a line in a file several times.
> I can do it using open and seek() etc. but was wondering if I can use
> fileinput.
>
> thanks;
>
>
>   
I haven't used it, but check out the 'inplace' keyword parameter.

DaveA


From jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu  Wed Aug 12 13:37:45 2009
From: jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 10:37:45 -0700
Subject: hashability
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Well there you go -- why on earth would you prohibit None as a dictionary 
> key??? That's a serious failure.


roentgen 1% python
Python 2.5 (r25:51908, Sep 20 2006, 17:36:21) 
[GCC 3.4.2] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
py> hash(None)
135543872


mbi136-176 98% /usr/bin/python
Python 2.5.1 (r251:54863, Feb  6 2009, 19:02:12) 
[GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Inc. build 5465)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
py> hash(None)
2030240



That's why. Read the whole thread. You are one of the abrasive ones.


From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 13:47:55 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 10:47:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<3611ca55-79a6-4336-9041-07d0893789f7@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
	<0447e8a2-508d-45b2-8d15-da0cc2a56b5f@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	
	 
	<0291a21a$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<8152546e-1f6f-4ea5-9b10-e1d9b5ffdab8@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 12, 3:36?am, Steven D'Aprano
 wrote:

> On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:20:52 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:

> > My "Annotated C++ Reference Manual" is packed, and surprisingly in
> > Stroustrup's Third Edition, there is no mention of the issue in the
> > entire 1,000 pages. But Microsoft to the rescue:
>
> > ? ? ?If you want a backslash character to appear within a string, you
> > ? ? ?must type two backslashes (\\)
>
> > (From http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/69ze775t.aspx)
>
> Should I assume that Microsoft's C++ compiler treats it as an error, not
> a warning?

In my experience, C++ compilers generally generate warnings for such
situations, where they can. (Clearly, they often can't generate
warnings for running off the end of an array, which is also undefined,
though a really smart C++ compiler might be able to generate a warning
in certain such circumstances.)

> Or is is this *still* undefined behaviour, and MS C++ compiler
> will happily compile "ab\cd" whatever it feels like?

If it's a decent compiler, it will generate a warning. Who can say
with Microsoft, however. It's clearly documented as illegal code,
however.

> > The question of what any specific C++ does if you ignore the warning is
> > irrelevant, as such behavior in C++ is almost *always* undefined. Hence
> > the warning.
>
> So a C++ compiler which follows Python's behaviour would be behaving
> within the language specifications.

It might be, but there are also *recommendations* in the C++ standard
about what to do in such situations, and the recommendations say, I am
pretty sure, not to do that, unless the particular compiler in
question has to meet some very specific backward compatibility needs.

> I note that the bash shell, which claims to follow C semantics, also does
> what Python does:
>
> $ echo $'a s\trin\g with escapes'
> a s ? ? rin\g with escapes

Really? Not on my computers. (One is a Mac, and the other is a Fedora
Core Linux box.) On my computers, bash doesn't seem to have *any*
escape sequences, other than \\, \", \$, and \`. It seems to treat
unknown escape sequences the same as Python does, but as there are
only four known escape sequences, and they are all meant merely to
guard against string interpolation, and the like, it's pretty darn
easy to keep straight.

> Explain to me again why we're treating underspecified C++ semantics,
> which may or may not do *exactly* what Python does, as if it were the One
> True Way of treating escape sequences?

I'm not saying that C++ does it right for Python. The right thing for
Python to do is to generate an error, as Python doesn't have to deal
with all the crazy complexities that C++ has to.

|>ouglas


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Wed Aug 12 13:50:33 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 13:50:33 -0400
Subject: hashability
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908121050w6fe89277n9f9b76b28f937f83@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:37 PM, James Stroud wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>
>> Well there you go -- why on earth would you prohibit None as a dictionary
>> key??? That's a serious failure.
>
>
> roentgen 1% python
> Python 2.5 (r25:51908, Sep 20 2006, 17:36:21) [GCC 3.4.2] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> py> hash(None)
> 135543872
>
>
> mbi136-176 98% /usr/bin/python
> Python 2.5.1 (r251:54863, Feb ?6 2009, 19:02:12) [GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Inc.
> build 5465)] on darwin
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> py> hash(None)
> 2030240

Actually, None is a special-case as a built-in singleton value --
there's only ever *exactly one* instance of it in a given interpreter
session. And I'm reasonably sure dict pickles don't store the hash
code of items (the dict gets recreated from scratch), so there's no
problem.

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From no.email at please.post  Wed Aug 12 14:00:16 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 18:00:16 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to find all possibly overlapping matches?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

In  MRAB  writes:

>kj wrote:
>> 
>> re.findall finds all non-overlapping matches, but what if one wants
>> all (maximal) matches, even those that overlap?
>> 
>> All the solutions I can come up involve calling re.search iteratively,
>> each time giving it a pos parameter starting just after the start
>> of the previous match.
>> 
>> Is there a built-in solution to such a task?
>> 
>Not in the re module.

>It has been requested and is in my regex implementation at
>http://bugs.python.org/issue2636 if you want to try that.

Cool.  Thanks!

kynn


From abecedarian314159 at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 12 14:08:17 2009
From: abecedarian314159 at yahoo.com (William)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:08:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: SQLObject 0.11.0
In-Reply-To: <20090812102452.GE5602@phd.pp.ru>
References: <20090812102452.GE5602@phd.pp.ru>
Message-ID: <630942.37631.qm@web110607.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

I don't want to start a flame war and would just like some information before diving in--
What are some the advantages and disadvantages of SQLObject compared to SQLAlchemy?

Thanks,
William



________________________________
From: Oleg Broytmann 
To: Python Mailing List ; Python Announce Mailing List 
Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 6:24:53 AM
Subject: SQLObject 0.11.0

Hello!

I'm pleased to announce version 0.11.0, the first stable release of 0.11 branch
of SQLObject.


What is SQLObject
=================

SQLObject is an object-relational mapper.  Your database tables are described
as classes, and rows are instances of those classes.  SQLObject is meant to be
easy to use and quick to get started with.

SQLObject supports a number of backends: MySQL, PostgreSQL, SQLite,
Firebird, Sybase, MSSQL and MaxDB (also known as SAPDB).


Where is SQLObject
==================

Site:
http://sqlobject.org

Development:
http://sqlobject.org/devel/

Mailing list:
https://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/sqlobject-discuss

Archives:
http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.sqlobject

Download:
http://cheeseshop.python.org/pypi/SQLObject/0.11.0

News and changes:
http://sqlobject.org/News.html


What's New
==========

News since 0.10
-----------------

Features & Interface
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

* Dropped support for Python 2.3. The minimal version of Python for
  SQLObject is 2.4 now.

* Dropped support for PostgreSQL 7.2. The minimal supported version of
  PostgreSQL is 7.3 now.

* New magic attribute 'j' similar to 'q' was added that automagically does
  join with the other table in MultipleJoin or RelatedJoin.

* SQLObject can now create and drop a database in MySQL, PostgreSQL, SQLite
  and Firebird/Interbase.

* Added some support for schemas in PostgreSQL.

* Added DecimalStringCol - similar to DecimalCol but stores data as strings
  to work around problems in some drivers and type affinity problem in
  SQLite.

* Added sqlobject.include.hashcol.HashCol - a column type that automatically
  hashes anything going into it, and returns out an object that hashes
  anything being compared to itself. Basically, it's good for really simple
  one-way password fields, and it even supports the assignment of None to
  indicate no password set. By default, it uses the md5 library for
  hashing, but this can be changed in a HashCol definition.

* RowDestroyedSignal and RowUpdatedSignal were added.

Minor features
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

* Use reversed() in manager/command.py instead of .__reversed__().

* Minor change in logging to console - logger no longer stores the output
  file, it gets the file from module sys every time by name; this means
  logging will use new sys.stdout (or stderr) in case the user changed
  them.

* Changed the order of testing of SQLite modules - look for external
  PySQLite2 before sqlite3.

For a more complete list, please see the news:
http://sqlobject.org/News.html

Oleg.
-- 
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



      
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From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Wed Aug 12 14:11:40 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 12 Aug 2009 18:11:40 GMT
Subject: hashability
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <0292f646$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 10:37:45 -0700, James Stroud wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> Well there you go -- why on earth would you prohibit None as a
>> dictionary key??? That's a serious failure.
> 
> 
> roentgen 1% python
> Python 2.5 (r25:51908, Sep 20 2006, 17:36:21) [GCC 3.4.2] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> py> hash(None)
> 135543872
> 
> 
> mbi136-176 98% /usr/bin/python
> Python 2.5.1 (r251:54863, Feb  6 2009, 19:02:12) [GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Inc.
> build 5465)] on darwin Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license"
> for more information. py> hash(None)
> 2030240
> 
> 
> 
> That's why. Read the whole thread. You are one of the abrasive ones.

I've read the whole thread. Pay close attention:

[steve at ando ~]$ python
Python 2.4.3 (#1, Mar 14 2007, 18:51:08)
[GCC 4.1.1 20070105 (Red Hat 4.1.1-52)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import pickle
>>> d = {None: 42}
>>> f = open('pickled_dict', 'w')
>>> pickle.dump(d, f)
>>> f.close()
>>>
[steve at ando ~]$ ssh sylar
steve at sylar's password:
Last login: Wed Aug 12 21:44:47 2009
[steve at sylar ~]$ python2.6
Python 2.6.1 (r261:67515, Dec 24 2008, 00:33:13)
[GCC 4.1.2 20070502 (Red Hat 4.1.2-12)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import pickle
>>> f = open('pickled_dict', 'r')
>>> d = pickle.load(f)
>>> d
{None: 42}


I have successfully pickled a dict using None as a key on one machine 
using Python 2.4, and unpickled it on a completely different machine 
running Python 2.6.

Still think that pickling None is a problem?



-- 
Steven


From schwehr at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 14:11:49 2009
From: schwehr at gmail.com (Kurt Schwehr)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:11:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Pulling arrays from database for plotting
Message-ID: <64fa9d35-a08b-4112-ba84-131f0f29c0f4@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

Hi all,

What's the best way to pull arrays from a database for plotting?
Right now, this is what I do, but can it be done simpler / more
efficiently?

ipython -pylab
import sqlite3
cx = sqlite3.connect('20080407.decimated.db3')
a = array( [tuple(row) for row in cx.execute('SELECT cg_offset,
delta_t_sec FROM bs_time WHERE recvr=2;')] )
x = a[:,0]
y = a[:,1]
plot(x,y)

However, if I try to plot it directly using transpose, it hangs:

import sqlite3
cx = sqlite3.connect('20080407.decimated.db3')
plot(array( [tuple(row) for row in cx.execute('SELECT cg_offset,
delta_t_sec FROM bs_time WHERE recvr=2;')] ).transpose())

It is that plot just doesn't know what to do with a 2D array?  Then I
tried this and it works, but is long and confusing to the uninitiated.

plot(*array( [tuple(row) for row in cx.execute('SELECT cg_offset,
delta_t_sec FROM bs_time WHERE recvr=2;')] ).T)



In [4]: a
Out[4]:
array([[  2.40000000e+01,   0.00000000e+00],
       [  2.50000000e+01,  -1.00000000e+00],
       [  3.40000000e+01,   0.00000000e+00],
       ...,
       [  8.63840000e+04,   2.00000000e+01],
       [  8.63940000e+04,   2.00000000e+01],
       [  8.64040000e+04,   2.00000000e+01]])

In [5]: a.transpose()
Out[5]:
array([[  2.40000000e+01,   2.50000000e+01,   3.40000000e+01, ...,
          8.63840000e+04,   8.63940000e+04,   8.64040000e+04],
       [  0.00000000e+00,  -1.00000000e+00,   0.00000000e+00, ...,
          2.00000000e+01,   2.00000000e+01,   2.00000000e+01]])





From python at rcn.com  Wed Aug 12 14:27:42 2009
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:27:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	
	<7f7c3e90-6026-411f-8b4a-829798819128@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3fdfb992-058b-4017-b1b3-db3a9542b62e@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 12, 3:32?am, Paul Boddie  wrote:
> Maybe the problem is that although everyone welcomes contributions and
> changes (or says that they do), the mechanisms remain largely beyond
> criticism.

FWIW, I support the idea the regular docs incorporating links to
freely editable wiki pages.  That will at least make it easier for
people to make changes or add notes.

That being said, I would like to add a few thoughts about the
current process.   ISTM that important corrections (when the
docs are clearly in error) tend to get made right away.  What
is more interesting are the doc requests that get rejected
and why:

* Many doc requests come from people just learning the language
(that makes sense because the learning process involves reading
the docs).  Unfortunately, a fair number of those requests are
flat-out wrong or represent a profound misunderstanding of the
feature in question.  That may be an indicator that the docs
need to be improved, but the specific suggestion can be inane.

* Some doc requests come from people who simply do not like the
feature in question.  It is natural for tastes, styles, and
preferences to vary; however, we do have a firm rule that Guido's
tastes, styles, and preferences are the ones that go into the
language.  So the doc writers need to try to channel Guido instead
of fighting him.  So, if you think eval() is evil (I don't but many
do), we're not going to document that eval() should *never* be used.
If you hate super(), that's too bad -- the docs need to describe
what it does and how it was intended to be used -- the docs are no
place for diatribes on why inheritance is over-used and why you
think the world would be a better place without mixins or
multiple inheritance.

* Then, there is a matter of where to put a particular piece of
documentation (how many times do you repeat a concept that pervades
the language).  Hashing is a good example.  The docs can discuss how
some objects hash to their object id and that object ids can change
from run-to-run, but if someone gets tripped-up by the idea (hey,
my set reprs changed between runs, wtf!), they want the docs updated
in the specific place that tripped them up (i.e. you must put big
red warnings in the set documentation, and the dict documentation,
and everywhere else a hash gets used ...).   The core problem is that
the docs are interrelated -- the one place you're looking for
documentation of a specific builtin or function can't contain
every concept in the language.

* Some behaviors are intentionally left unspecified.  For the longest
time, Tim did not want to guarantee sort stability.  This left him
free to continue to search for algorithmic improvements that did not
have stability.  Later, the property was deemed so important that it
did become a guaranteed behavior.  Also, some things are unspecified
to make things easier for other implementations (IronPython, PyPy,
Jython, etc.)  We need to make sure that some one doesn't casually
go through the docs making doc promises that are hard to keep.

* Some things are just plain difficult to fully explain in English
and not misrepresent that actual behavior.  For example, the str.split
()
docs have been continuously tweaked over the years.  Even now, I think
there are corner cases that are not fully captured by the docs.
Casual
edits to str.split() docs are more likely than not to take them
farther
away from the truth.

* Then, there is the problem of talking too much.  A book could be
written about super(), but that shouldn't all go into the docs for
the super builtin.  Beginners often want to master all the builtins
and they try to read the doc page on builtin functions.  It used to be
that you could read through the builtin descriptions in a few minutes.
Now, it takes a concerted effort to get through.  It is hard to take
a sip of water from a firehose.  Too much information has make a
function harder to understand.

* My biggest pet peeve are requests to fill the docs with big red
warnings.  I do not want the docs to look like a mine field.  The
warnings
should be reserved for a handful of security or data corruption risks.
For the most part, the docs should be matter-of-fact, explaining what
a function or method does and how it was intended to be used.

Preferred:  "The value str.letters is locale dependent"

Not preferred:  "Caution, the str.letters value can be adversely
affected by the locale setting (it could even change length!); use
this
only when you are certain the locale setting will not violate any of
your program invariants; consider using a string literal instead; I
hate
string.letters and think Guido was smoking crack when it was
introduced."

* Another category of rejected doc requests come from people looking
for
absolution from one of their programming bugs.  It typically takes the
form of, "I made an assumption that the language did X, but it did Y
and my program didn't do what I wanted; therefore, the docs must be
to blame and they must change ...".  The suggestion is "I was
suprised"
implies "the docs are hosed".  The fact is that people with diffferent
backgrounds are going to have different expectations and someone is
going to get "surprised".  The docs need to say what functions do, but
they don't need to be changed everytime someone writes a buggy
program.

In short, most doc requests that get rejected are requests that didn't
actually improve the documentation.

I do support links from the regular docs to an external wiki but the
main docs should continue to go through the regular process using the
tracker.


Raymond




From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Wed Aug 12 14:40:01 2009
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:40:01 -0700
Subject: SQLObject 0.11.0
In-Reply-To: <630942.37631.qm@web110607.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <20090812102452.GE5602@phd.pp.ru>
	<630942.37631.qm@web110607.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: 

> I don't want to start a flame war and would just like some information
> before diving in--
> What are some the advantages and disadvantages of SQLObject compared to
> SQLAlchemy?

In short: sqlobject is much simpler (to use, to understand, etc) than
sqlalchemy and so I prefer it in small projects. This advantage is
also a disadvantage when you have large and complex projects in mind.

Cheers,
Daniel

-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 14:41:51 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:41:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: hashability
References: 
	 
	
Message-ID: <1797a24d-7437-4a5c-bb67-9a81abb095c0@p10g2000prm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 12, 10:37?am, James Stroud  wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> > Well there you go -- why on earth would you prohibit None as a dictionary
> > key??? That's a serious failure.
>
> roentgen 1% python
> Python 2.5 (r25:51908, Sep 20 2006, 17:36:21)
> [GCC 3.4.2] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> py> hash(None)
> 135543872
>
> mbi136-176 98% /usr/bin/python
> Python 2.5.1 (r251:54863, Feb ?6 2009, 19:02:12)
> [GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Inc. build 5465)] on darwin
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> py> hash(None)
> 2030240
>
> That's why. Read the whole thread. You are one of the abrasive ones.

FYI: If you need the actual hash value to be consistent across
versions of Python the built hash function won't suffice.  The
language doesn't guanrantee they will persist across versions.  (IIRC,
there was a change to the hash value of longs at one point related to
int/long unification issues.)

Now, when I saw your explanation I assumed that your persistence
mechanism merely doesn't preserve identity (unlike, say, simple
pickling, which does), meaning that objects that were once identical
might be reconstituted as non-identical (or vice versa), which would
be an issue if these objects are stored in dicts or sets.  Equality
must be preserved for dict keys and set members to continue to work
property.  However, the actual hash code doesn't need to be preserved.

As was mentioned already, None is guaranteed by the language to be
equal to itself, so equality is preserved and there should be no issue
with it, even if the hash code changes across invocations.

Now, if you are doing something weird with the hash value itself--
which I highly discourage--then all bets are off.


Carl Banks


From python at rcn.com  Wed Aug 12 15:15:07 2009
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:15:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <269572f2-5968-479b-a7e6-d3354a769250@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

[Xah Lee]
> i've wrote several articles about this issue, total time spend on this
> is probably more than 2 months full-time work. See:
>
> ? Python Documentation Problems
> ?http://xahlee.org/perl-python/python_doc_index.html

I just read you post.   You did devote a substantial amount of time
to the project.  Some of your criticisms are valid.  Wish you had
posted patches, I think many of them would have been accepted.

Since you wrote this a few years ago, many examples have
been added to the docs and more are forthcoming.



> I often receive thank you emails for 2 particular articles, which are
> most frequently google searched as indicated by my weblog:
>
> ? Python Doc Problem Example: gzip
> ?http://xahlee.org/perl-python/python_doc_gzip.html
>
> ? Python Doc Problem Example: sort()
> ?http://xahlee.org/perl-python/python_doc_sort.html
>
> ? Sorting in Python and Perl
> ?http://xahlee.org/perl-python/sort_list.html

Some are the criticisms are valid; others seem off-base.

Here are a few thoughts on list.sort() for those who are interested:

* The key= and reversed= parameters are not intended for special
cases, leaving cmp= for the general case.  They were intended to
be full replacements.  In Python3.x, the cmp function is gone.

* The interaction of the key= and cmp= functions can be made to
interact (the key function is first applied to every element and
the cmp function then gets applied to the results of the key
function).  This isn't a normal or intended use case, so the docs
don't delve into the subject.

* The reversed parameter does more than list.sort() followed by
list.reverse().  It also preserves stability in the event of equal
keys:

   >>> sorted([(1,2), (1,3)], key=itemgetter(0), reverse=True)
   [(1,2), (1,3)]

So it was not correct to say that the following are equivalent:

    li.sort(lambda x, y: cmp(x[1],y[1]), reverse=True)
    li.sort(lambda x, y: cmp(y[1],x[1]))

* We should link the sorted() and list.sort() docs to the
sorting how-to (with a fuller discussion on the art of sorting
including a discussion of operator.itemgetter() and
operator.attrgetter() which were designed to work with the key=
parameter.


Raymond




From mwkohout at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 15:44:51 2009
From: mwkohout at gmail.com (Michael Kohout)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:44:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Extending embedded python-can extensions be local to a dictionary?
Message-ID: <9d65250a-d4fa-440d-83ac-b22430284dab@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

Hello all-

I've got a multithreaded server-based application that I'd like to use
python to provide plugin support for.  At execution time I would like
each call to the plugin/plugins to have their own implementation of
these extension methods.

Looking at http://docs.python.org/extending/embedding.html#extending-embedded-python,
I see how to add functions, but it looks like they are added at a
global scope-not in a particular environment.  Is there any way to add
an extension to a local environment but not pollute the global env?

FYI, I'm embedding python 2.6, but I'm more than open to embedding
something newer.

thanks
Mike Kohout


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 16:14:51 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 13:14:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	
	<7f7c3e90-6026-411f-8b4a-829798819128@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
	<3fdfb992-058b-4017-b1b3-db3a9542b62e@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2fe731f6-8640-4e5c-bf39-62b22d635003@32g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 12, 1:27?pm, Raymond Hettinger  wrote:
(snip)
> * Many doc requests come from people just learning the language
> (that makes sense because the learning process involves reading
> the docs). ?Unfortunately, a fair number of those requests are
> flat-out wrong or represent a profound misunderstanding of the
> feature in question. ?That may be an indicator that the docs
> need to be improved...

Yes, if many people have problems with the docs then that must be a
*clue* to some underling problem in the way the docs are presented.
Whether its from misinfomation, misguidance, or just plain
misunderstanding on the reader's part that does not matter. There are
problems and we need the feedback from everybody noob-to-pro on how to
fix this conundrum. One thing that some naysayers may forget is the
fact that these noobs most likely have no idea *how*, *when*, or
*where* to voice a complaint so they just move on to the next language
or suffer with an incomplete understanding of the language and/or
proper python idioms. I would say the complaints that this list has
seen concerning docs only scratches the surface of the huge underling
issues that face us here!

> So, if you think eval() is evil (I don't but many
> do), we're not going to document that eval() should *never* be used.
> If you hate super(), that's too bad -- the docs need to describe
> what it does and how it was intended to be used -- the docs are no
> place for diatribes on why inheritance is over-used and why you
> think the world would be a better place without mixins or
> multiple inheritance.

Eloquent and beautiful a paragraph that was Raymond. Why, because
common sense is just so damn beautiful. Keep the docs clean of
personal opinions and just give us the facts people. Who cares about
the history of OOP --Google it!-- i want to read about using Python.
Give me the nitty-gritty-down-and-dirty-facts that relate to Python
syntax and structure, and only the facts, in the most strait forward
and common sense way so i can get on to actually writing some code!

If you seek self gratification visit c.l.py and vent away, everyone
else seems to.


From jschwab at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 16:34:19 2009
From: jschwab at gmail.com (jschwab)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 13:34:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Format Code Repeat Counts?
Message-ID: 

Are repeat counts supported Python's str.format() in some fashion?

In Fortran my format strings can have repeat counts.


write(*, fmt="3F8.3") [1, 2, 3]
   1.000  2.000   3.000


I don't think printf-style format codes, which is what'd I'd
previously used in Python, allow for repeat counts.

As a more concrete example, say I have several sets of letters in a
list of strings
     letters = ["aeiou", "hnopty", "egs", "amsp"]
and I wanted to build a regular expression string out of them like
     re_str <==> "[aeiou][hnopty][egs][amsp]"
Right now, the best I've got that doesn't require an explicit string
like "[{1}][{2}][{3}][{4}]" is
     re_str = "".join(map(lambda x: "[{0}]".format(x), letters))

Is there a better way?

Thanks,
Josiah




From alan.isaac at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 16:45:43 2009
From: alan.isaac at gmail.com (Alan G Isaac)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 20:45:43 GMT
Subject: csv.DictWriter.write_header()
Message-ID: 

Given a csv.DictWriter instance `dw`
I think it would be nice to be able to
say dw.write_header()
instead of
dw.writer.writerow(dw.fieldnames)

Good idea?

Alan Isaac


From bernard.chhun at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 16:53:41 2009
From: bernard.chhun at gmail.com (Bernard)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 13:53:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: matching patterns after regex?
References: <61bef795-f146-4bdd-b5b3-a212e6d9197c@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<2387d409-110a-451d-b301-6d7fe4abc793@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> 
	 
	<0292a4a9$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<18d5d342-b678-4101-a284-24d6176ac856@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <85652297-16e7-489f-9e36-5092941df002@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On 12 ao?t, 12:43, Martin  wrote:
> On Aug 12, 1:42 pm, Martin  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 12, 1:23 pm, Steven D'Aprano 
> > cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> > > On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 05:12:22 -0700, Martin wrote:
> > > > I tried
>
> > > > re.findall((\w+COORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.\w-]+),s)
>
> > > You need to put quotes around strings.
>
> > > In this case, because you're using regular expressions, you should use a
> > > raw string:
>
> > > re.findall(r"(\w+COORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.\w-]+)",s)
>
> > > will probably work.
>
> > > --
> > > Steven
>
> > Thanks I see.
>
> > so I tried it and if I use it as it is, it matches the first instance:
> > I
> > n [594]: re.findall(r"(\w+COORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.\w-]+)",s)
> > Out[594]: [('NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE', '1')]
>
> > So I adjusted the first part of the regex, on the basis I could sub
> > NORTH for SOUTH etc.
>
> > In [595]: re.findall(r"(NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.
> > \w-]+)",s)
> > Out[595]: [('NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE', '1')]
>
> > But in both cases it doesn't return the decimal value rather the value
> > that comes after NUM_VAL = , rather than VALUE = ?
>
> I think I kind of got that to work...but I am clearly not quite
> understanding how it works as I tried to use it again to match
> something else.
>
> In this case I want to print the values 0.000000 and 2223901.039333
> from a string like this...
>
> YDim=1200\n\t\tUpperLeftPointMtrs=(0.000000,2223901.039333)\n\t\t
>
> I tried which I though was matching the statement and printing the
> decimal number after the equals sign??
>
> re.findall(r"(\w+UpperLeftPointMtrs)*=\s([\d\.\w-]+)", s)
>
> where s is the string
>
> Many thanks for the help

You have to do it with 2 matches in the same regex:

regex = r"UpperLeftPointMtrs=\(([\d\.]+),([\d\.]+)"

The first match  is before the , and the second one is after the , :)

You should probably learn how to play with regexes.
I personnaly use a visual tool called RX Toolkit[1] that comes with
Komodo IDE.

[1] http://docs.activestate.com/komodo/4.4/regex.html


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 16:57:53 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 13:57:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Extending embedded python-can extensions be local to a 
	dictionary?
References: <9d65250a-d4fa-440d-83ac-b22430284dab@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <56b8b9d3-9166-4dc3-8166-1e60861d00b0@k26g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 12, 12:44?pm, Michael Kohout  wrote:
> Hello all-
>
> I've got a multithreaded server-based application that I'd like to use
> python to provide plugin support for. ?At execution time I would like
> each call to the plugin/plugins to have their own implementation of
> these extension methods.

I am guessing that what you really want is each call to have its own
data.  There isn't much reason for each call to have its own methods.

If that's not correct you will have to elaborate.


> Looking athttp://docs.python.org/extending/embedding.html#extending-embedded-py...,
> I see how to add functions, but it looks like they are added at a
> global scope-not in a particular environment. ?Is there any way to add
> an extension to a local environment but not pollute the global env?

A couple things.  They're not in a global scope, "globals" in Python
have a scope local to a module (global is a misnomer, at best it means
"globally accessible").  So you don't have to worry about a function
defined on one module clashing with a function defined in another
modules.

However, even if name-clashes aren't an issue there isn't much point
to defining the same function mulitple times for multiple calls.

What you probably want is to define a new type that contains all the
data extension code would need.  For each call to the plugin, you
would create an object of this type, then pass it to the appropriate
plugin function.


I have given you a vague answer because your question was vague; if
you want a better answer please rephrase to be more specific.  Include
details like what you would like the code of a Python plugin to look
like.


Carl Banks


From davigier at googlemail.com  Wed Aug 12 17:09:29 2009
From: davigier at googlemail.com (David)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:09:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to launch a function at regular time intervals ?
Message-ID: 

Hi all, I'm trying to launch a function at regular time intervals but
cannot find the way to do it. Here is the code I wrote (time_interval
is a user defined variable in seconds):

while(1)
  timestamp=datetime.now()
 
timestamp_seconds=timestamp.hour*3600+timestamp.minute*60+timestamp.second
  if timestamp_seconds % time_interval == 0: ****Call Function****

This does not work because during the second at which the condition
holds true, there is time to call the function several times. Since I
want to have this function called only once every x seconds, I tried
to add the following condition:

if timestamp_seconds % time_interval ==0 & timestamp.microsecond == 0

But it seems this second condition hardly ever happens (i.e. the
timestamp variable is not updated every microsecond, therefore it can
be 9998 then jump directly to 0003 for instance).

Has anyone run into a similar problem (and solved it) ?

Thanks for your help


From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 17:21:34 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:21:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<3611ca55-79a6-4336-9041-07d0893789f7@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
	<0447e8a2-508d-45b2-8d15-da0cc2a56b5f@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	
	<494d80f1-0b47-468c-bdd9-7a087f6d915c@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <7877b03a-09da-4836-804c-502b6f78003c@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 12, 5:32 am, Steven D'Aprano
 wrote:

> That problem basically boils down to a deep-seated
> philosophical disagreement over which philosophy a
> language should follow in regard to backslash escapes:
>
> "Anything not explicitly permitted is forbidden"
>
> versus
>
> "Anything not explicitly forbidden is permitted"

No, it doesn't. It boils down to whether a language should:

(1) Try it's best to detect errors as early as possible,
especially when the cost of doing so is low.

(2) Make code as readable as possible, in part by making
code as self-evident as possible by mere inspection and by
reducing the amount of stuff that you have to memorize. Perl
fails miserably in this regard, for instance.

(3) To quote Einstein, make everything as simple as
possible, and no simpler.

(4) Take innately ambiguous things and not force them to be
unambiguous by mere fiat.

Allowing a programmer to program using a completely
arbitrary resolution of "unrecognized escape sequences"
violates all of the above principles.

The fact that the meanings of unrecognized escape sequences
are ambiguous is proved by the fact that every language
seems to treat them somewhat differently, demonstrating that
there is no natural intuitive meaning for them.

Furthermore, allowing programmers to use "unrecognized escape
sequences" without raising an error violates:

(1) Explicit is better than implicit:

Python provides a way to explicitly specify that you want a
backslash. Every programmer should be encouraged to use
Python's explicit mechanism here.

(2) Simple is better than complex:

Python currently has two classes of ambiguously
interpretable escape sequences: "unrecognized ones", and
"illegal" ones. Making a single class (i.e. just illegal
ones) is simpler.

Also, not having to memorize escape sequences that you
rarely have need to use is simpler.

(3) Readability counts:

See above comments on readability.

(4) Errors should never pass silently:

Even the Python Reference Manual indicates that unrecognized
escape sequences are a source of bugs. (See more comments on
this below.)

(5) In the face of ambiguity, refuse the temptation to
guess.

Every language, other than C++, is taking a guess at what
the programmer would find to be most useful expansion for
unrecognized escape sequences, and each of the languages is
guessing differently. This temptation should be refused!

You can argue that once it is in the Reference Manual it is
no longer a guess, but that is patently specious, as Perl
proves. For instance, the fact that Perl will quietly convert
an array into a scalar for you, if you assign the array to a
scalar variable is certainly a "guess" of the sort that this
Python koan is referring to. Likewise for an arbitrary
interpretation of unrecognized escape sequences.

(6) There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious
way to do it.

What is the one obvious way to express "\\y"? It is "\\y" or
"\y"?

Python can easily make one of these ways the "one obvious
way" by making the other one raise an error.

(7) Namespaces are one honking great idea -- let's do more
of those!

Allowing "\y" to self-expand is intruding into the namespace
for special characters that require an escape sequence.

> C++ apparently forbids all escape sequences, with
> unspecified behaviour if you use a forbidden sequence,
> except for a handful of explicitly permitted sequences.
>
> That's not better, it's merely different.

It *is* better, as it catches errors early on at little
cost, and for all the other reasons listed above.

> Actually, that's not true -- that the C++ standard forbids
> a thing, but leaves the consequences of doing that thing
> unspecified, is clearly a Bad Thing.

Indeed. But C++ has backward compatibly issues that make
any that Python has to deal with, pale in comparison. The
recommended behavior for a C++ compiler, however, is to flag
the problem as an error or as a warning.

> So on at least one machine in the world, C++ simply strips
> out backslashes that it doesn't recognize, leaving the
> suffix. Unfortunately, we can't rely on that, because C++
> is underspecified.

No, *fortunately* you can't rely on it, forcing you to go
fix your code.

> Fortunately this is not a problem with
> Python, which does completely specify the behaviour of
> escape sequences so there are no surprises.

It's not a surprise when the C++ compiler issues a warning to
you. If you ignore the warning, then you have no one to
blame but yourself.

> Implicit has an actual meaning. You shouldn't use it as a
> mere term of opprobrium for anything you don't like.

Pardon me, but I'm using "implicit" to mean "implicit", and
nothing more.

Python's behavior here is "implicit" in the very same way
that Perl implicitly converts an array into a scalar for
you. (Though that particular Perl behavior is a far bigger
wart than Python's behavior is here!)

> > Because you've stated that "\y" is a legal escape
> > sequence, while the Python Reference Manual explicitly
> > states that it is an "unrecognized escape sequence", and
> > that such "unrecognized escape sequences" are sources of
> > bugs.
>
> There's that reading comprehension problem again.
>
> Unrecognised != illegal.

This is reasoning that only a lawyer could love.

The right thing for a programming language to do, when
handed something that is syntactically "unrecognized" is to
raise an error.

> It seems to me that the behaviour the Python designers
> were looking to avoid was the case where the coder
> accidentally inserted a backslash in the wrong place, and
> the language stripped the backslash out, e.g.:
>
> Wanted "a\bcd" but accidentally typed "ab\cd" instead, and
> got "abcd".

The moral of the story is that *any* arbitrary
interpretation of unrecognized escape sequences is a
potential source of bugs. In Python, you just end up with a
converse issue, where one might understandably assume that
"foo\bar" has a backslash in it, because "foo\yar" and
*most* other similar strings do. But then it doesn't.

> >> This is *exactly* like C++, except that in Python the
> >> semantics of \y and \\y are identical. Python doesn't
> >> guess what you mean, it *imposes* a meaning on the
> >> escape sequence. You just don't like that meaning.

> > That's because I don't like things that are
> > ill-conceived.

> And yet you like C++... go figure *wink*

Now that's a bold assertion!

I think that "tolerate C++" is more like it. But C++ does
have its moments.

|>ouglas


From python at rcn.com  Wed Aug 12 17:24:29 2009
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:24:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<269572f2-5968-479b-a7e6-d3354a769250@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <60bd3cab-1cab-4677-b640-8d126343615a@d9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

[Raymond Hettinger]
> Here are a few thoughts on list.sort() for those who are interested:

After one more reading of Xah Lee's posts on the documentation for
sort,
here are couple more thoughts:

* The reason that list.sort() allows None for the cmp parameter is not
so that you can write list.sort(None).  It was put there to make it
easier for people writing function definitions where the cmp function
is a possible argument:

   def sort_and_chop(seq, maxlen, cmp=None):
       s = seq[:]
       s.sort(cmp)           # needs to accept None as a possible
argument
       return s[:maxlen]

* The reason for implementing the key= parameter had nothing to do
with limitations of Python's compiler.  Instead, it was inspired by
the
decorate-sort-undecorate pattern.


Raymond


From senad.ibraimoski at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 17:27:54 2009
From: senad.ibraimoski at gmail.com (Senad Ibraimoski -student-Mathematical Institute Belgrade)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:27:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Plotting Quadratic Functions, pygame
Message-ID: 

Hello, I'm a new guy to this group, my professor recommend this group
to me, because I was boring him with questions.I'm new to python, and
I have problem plotting Quadratic Functions. Using module pygame.
Here is the code:

#!/usr/bin/env python
import pygame
def main():
	import sys
	import math
	from math import sqrt
	#Input equation coefficients
	screen=pygame.display.set_mode((400,400))
	pygame.display.set_caption( ' Ploting ' )
	screen.fill((255,255,255))
	pen=((0,0,255))
	dark=(0,0,0)
	ox=200
	oy=200
	a= int(raw_input('Input coefficient a ' ))
	b= int(raw_input('Input coefficient b ' ))
	c= int(raw_input('Input coefficient c ' ))
	pygame.draw.aaline(screen,((255,0,0)),((200,0)) ,((200,400)))
	pygame.draw.aaline(screen,((255,0,0)),((0,200)), ((400,200)))
	if a==0:
		if b==0:
			print 'No solutions'
		else:
			x= -c/b
			print x
	else:
		d=b*b-4*a*c
		if d<0:
			num=complex(-b/(2*a),sqrt(-d)/(2*a))
			print num
		else:
			x1=(-b+sqrt(d))/(2*a)
			x2=(-b-sqrt(d))/(2*a)
			print 'x1= ' ,x1
			print 'x2= ' ,x2
			while 1:
				for event in pygame.event.get():
					if event ==pygame.QUIT:
						print ' Quitting'
						pygame.quit()
						sys.exit(1)

				x=-50;
				while x<=50:
					y=(a*(x**2) + b*x + c) *(-1)
					screen.set_at(((x+ox),(y+oy)),dark)
					pygame.display.flip()
					x=x+1;

	return 0

if __name__ == '__main__': main()

For now I'm plotting function only when Determinant >0. Or in other
words, when equation has two solutions,
x1,x2 e R... Now if you start my program you will see where problem
is. It's with function, It so bad drawn.
When I try to increment x in loop by 0.1 for every pass, I get
problems because method set_at() Which sets pixel requires integer...

Also I see I have problems with event handling here:
while 1:
				for event in pygame.event.get():
					if event ==pygame.QUIT:
						print ' Quitting'
						pygame.quit()
						sys.exit(1)

When I click X, or exit on windows it doesn't exit.
What do you suggest I do...?
I don't have in this year Computer Graphics on my faculty. So this are
my first steps in this area of CS.

Regards,
S.I


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Aug 12 17:29:11 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 22:29:11 +0100
Subject: matching patterns after regex?
In-Reply-To: <85652297-16e7-489f-9e36-5092941df002@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <61bef795-f146-4bdd-b5b3-a212e6d9197c@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>	<2387d409-110a-451d-b301-6d7fe4abc793@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	
	<0292a4a9$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<18d5d342-b678-4101-a284-24d6176ac856@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>	
	<85652297-16e7-489f-9e36-5092941df002@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Bernard wrote:
> On 12 ao?t, 12:43, Martin  wrote:
>> On Aug 12, 1:42 pm, Martin  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Aug 12, 1:23 pm, Steven D'Aprano >> cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 05:12:22 -0700, Martin wrote:
>>>>> I tried
>>>>> re.findall((\w+COORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.\w-]+),s)
>>>> You need to put quotes around strings.
>>>> In this case, because you're using regular expressions, you should use a
>>>> raw string:
>>>> re.findall(r"(\w+COORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.\w-]+)",s)
>>>> will probably work.
>>>> --
>>>> Steven
>>> Thanks I see.
>>> so I tried it and if I use it as it is, it matches the first instance:
>>> I
>>> n [594]: re.findall(r"(\w+COORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.\w-]+)",s)
>>> Out[594]: [('NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE', '1')]
>>> So I adjusted the first part of the regex, on the basis I could sub
>>> NORTH for SOUTH etc.
>>> In [595]: re.findall(r"(NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.
>>> \w-]+)",s)
>>> Out[595]: [('NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE', '1')]
>>> But in both cases it doesn't return the decimal value rather the value
>>> that comes after NUM_VAL = , rather than VALUE = ?
>> I think I kind of got that to work...but I am clearly not quite
>> understanding how it works as I tried to use it again to match
>> something else.
>>
>> In this case I want to print the values 0.000000 and 2223901.039333
>> from a string like this...
>>
>> YDim=1200\n\t\tUpperLeftPointMtrs=(0.000000,2223901.039333)\n\t\t
>>
>> I tried which I though was matching the statement and printing the
>> decimal number after the equals sign??
>>
>> re.findall(r"(\w+UpperLeftPointMtrs)*=\s([\d\.\w-]+)", s)
>>
>> where s is the string
>>
>> Many thanks for the help
> 
> You have to do it with 2 matches in the same regex:
> 
> regex = r"UpperLeftPointMtrs=\(([\d\.]+),([\d\.]+)"
> 
> The first match  is before the , and the second one is after the , :)
> 
> You should probably learn how to play with regexes.
> I personnaly use a visual tool called RX Toolkit[1] that comes with
> Komodo IDE.
> 
> [1] http://docs.activestate.com/komodo/4.4/regex.html
Haven't tried it myself but how about this?
http://re-try.appspot.com/

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From no.email at please.post  Wed Aug 12 17:41:38 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 21:41:38 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to page output in >>> ?
Message-ID: 



How does one tell the python interactive interpreter to run the
next output to stdout through the default pager?  Basically, I'm
looking for Python's equivalent of Perl's debugger's "|" prefix,
as in

  DB<1> |print $long_output

TIA!

kynn


From i3dmaster at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 17:56:27 2009
From: i3dmaster at gmail.com (i3dmaster)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:56:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: httplib incredibly slow :-(
References: <4A81D3CB.7080209@simplistix.co.uk>
	 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 12, 9:37?am, Chris Withers  wrote:
> David Stanek wrote:
> > I tried to reproduce this, but I could not. Could you paste in the
> > output of your script?
>
> Not sure how that'll help, but sure:
>
> 2009-08-11 21:27:59.153000
> request: 0:00:00.109000
> response: 0:00:00.109000
> read: 0:24:31.266000
>
> ?> Also on the same box where you run this script
>
> > can you test with curl or wget?
>
> It's a Windows box, so no :-(
> But it really does download in a few seconds with IE, and 20min+ using
> the script I included...
>
> Chris
>
> --
> Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting
> ? ? ? ? ? ? -http://www.simplistix.co.uk

Just wanted to check if you can try turning on the debug mode for
httplib and see if you can read a bit more debug info on where the
calls get hung. In your example, it would be conn.set_debuglevel(1)


From lists at cheimes.de  Wed Aug 12 18:01:44 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 00:01:44 +0200
Subject: How to launch a function at regular time intervals ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A833BC8.1000801@cheimes.de>

David wrote:
> Has anyone run into a similar problem (and solved it) ?

Yeah, here is my implementation as a perpetual timer based some cherrypy 
code and threading timer.

import threading

class PerpetualTimer(threading._Timer):
     """A subclass of threading._Timer whose run() method repeats.

     Based on cherrpy.process.plugins.PerpetualTimer
     """
     def __init__(self, interval, function, name=None, daemon=False, 
args=(), kwargs={}):
         super(PerpetualTimer, self).__init__(interval, function, args, 
kwargs)
         self.setName(name)
         self.setDaemon(daemon)

     def run(self):
         while True:
             self.finished.wait(self.interval)
             if self.finished.isSet():
                 return
             self.function(*self.args, **self.kwargs)

     def stop(self, timeout=None):
         self.cancel()
         self.join(timeout)

def callback(egg):
     egg.cook()

timer = PerpetualTimer(100, callback, name="EggTimer", args=(somegg,))
timer.start()

...

timer.stop()

Christian


From user at tld.invalid  Wed Aug 12 18:07:23 2009
From: user at tld.invalid (Bartosz Wroblewski)
Date: 12 Aug 2009 22:07:23 GMT
Subject: How to launch a function at regular time intervals ?
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:09:29 -0700, David wrote:
>
> Hi all, I'm trying to launch a function at regular time intervals but
> cannot find the way to do it.
>

For what it's worth, here's how I do it:

---------------8<---------------

#!/usr/bin/env python
from time import sleep

interval = 25 #seconds

while not sleep(interval):
    f(spam, eggs, knight)

---------------8<---------------

You might want to put the sleep inside an *obviously* infinite loop. Note 
that this works best (most accurately) for longer periods. If you need to
account for the time spent in the actual f() calls, plug in a time.time() 
call where appropriate.

-- 
| <")-, | ''The good-enough is the enemy of the excellent.'' - John Miles 
| (_==/ |-----------,-----------------------------------------------------
|  ='-  | Bartosz Wroblewski | bawr from holyhandgrenade.info or int8.org 


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Aug 12 18:19:18 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 23:19:18 +0100
Subject: Format Code Repeat Counts?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A833FE6.5030700@mrabarnett.plus.com>

jschwab wrote:
> Are repeat counts supported Python's str.format() in some fashion?
> 
> In Fortran my format strings can have repeat counts.
> 
> 
> write(*, fmt="3F8.3") [1, 2, 3]
>    1.000  2.000   3.000
> 
> 
> I don't think printf-style format codes, which is what'd I'd
> previously used in Python, allow for repeat counts.
> 
> As a more concrete example, say I have several sets of letters in a
> list of strings
>      letters = ["aeiou", "hnopty", "egs", "amsp"]
> and I wanted to build a regular expression string out of them like
>      re_str <==> "[aeiou][hnopty][egs][amsp]"
> Right now, the best I've got that doesn't require an explicit string
> like "[{1}][{2}][{3}][{4}]" is
>      re_str = "".join(map(lambda x: "[{0}]".format(x), letters))
> 
> Is there a better way?
> 
The shortest I can come up with is:

     "[" + "][".join(letters) + "]"



From clp2 at rebertia.com  Wed Aug 12 18:23:32 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 18:23:32 -0400
Subject: Format Code Repeat Counts?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908121523jc495a65y1957a503b4f10566@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 4:34 PM, jschwab wrote:

> As a more concrete example, say I have several sets of letters in a
> list of strings
> ? ? letters = ["aeiou", "hnopty", "egs", "amsp"]
> and I wanted to build a regular expression string out of them like
> ? ? re_str <==> "[aeiou][hnopty][egs][amsp]"
> Right now, the best I've got that doesn't require an explicit string
> like "[{1}][{2}][{3}][{4}]" is
> ? ? re_str = "".join(map(lambda x: "[{0}]".format(x), letters))
>
> Is there a better way?

Slightly better, by using a generator expression instead of map() and lambda:
re_str = "".join("[{0}]".format(x) for x in letters)

Though obviously MRAB's is shorter (and a good show of lateral thinking).

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Wed Aug 12 18:34:34 2009
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 15:34:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Plotting Quadratic Functions, pygame
References: 
Message-ID: <14363c28-482a-40fe-bbdf-e727fb68dce6@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

Before we get into fixing your code, let's talk about style. A lot of
bugs are solved when you fix the style, and the remaining bugs are
much easier to find and fix.

(Comments inline)

On Aug 12, 2:27?pm, Senad Ibraimoski -student-Mathematical Institute
Belgrade  wrote:
> Hello, I'm a new guy to this group, my professor recommend this group
> to me, because I was boring him with questions.I'm new to python, and
> I have problem plotting Quadratic Functions. Using module pygame.
> Here is the code:
>
> #!/usr/bin/env python

Vertical whitespace is very useful for separating different parts of
your code, just like you do when you write paragraphs.

> import pygame

vertical whitespeace.

> def main():

Throwing everything into one function is rarely a good idea. I'll
identify ways you can separate out the code below into functions. For
now, your code can share data between functions with global variables.
Down the road, you may want to encapsulate the shared data in objects.

> ? ? ? ? import sys
> ? ? ? ? import math
> ? ? ? ? from math import sqrt

Put all the import statements at the top, as much as you can.

> ? ? ? ? #Input equation coefficients
> ? ? ? ? screen=pygame.display.set_mode((400,400))
> ? ? ? ? pygame.display.set_caption( ' Ploting ' )
> ? ? ? ? screen.fill((255,255,255))
> ? ? ? ? pen=((0,0,255))
> ? ? ? ? dark=(0,0,0)
> ? ? ? ? ox=200
> ? ? ? ? oy=200

There are really two parts here: Getting the screen setup and drawing.
Both should be separated into two functions.

> ? ? ? ? a= int(raw_input('Input coefficient a ' ))
> ? ? ? ? b= int(raw_input('Input coefficient b ' ))
> ? ? ? ? c= int(raw_input('Input coefficient c ' ))

Another part deals with collecting user input.

Note that you shouldn't be collecting ints but floats.

(Ideally, you would collect real numbers, but representing that in a
computer is difficult.)

> ? ? ? ? pygame.draw.aaline(screen,((255,0,0)),((200,0)) ,((200,400)))
> ? ? ? ? pygame.draw.aaline(screen,((255,0,0)),((0,200)), ((400,200)))

This draws the coordinate axes. This belongs in another function.

> ? ? ? ? if a==0:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? if b==0:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print 'No solutions'
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? else:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? x= -c/b
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print x
> ? ? ? ? else:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? d=b*b-4*a*c
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? if d<0:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? num=complex(-b/(2*a),sqrt(-d)/(2*a))
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print num
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? else:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? x1=(-b+sqrt(d))/(2*a)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? x2=(-b-sqrt(d))/(2*a)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print 'x1= ' ,x1
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print 'x2= ' ,x2

The solver belongs in another function.

I would have the solver take a representation of the equation (simply
a tuple of (a, b, c)) and return a list of solutions.

If there are no solutions, then return an empty list.

> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? while 1:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? for event in pygame.event.get():
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? if event ==pygame.QUIT:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print ' Quitting'
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? pygame.quit()
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? sys.exit(1)
>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? x=-50;
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? while x<=50:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? y=(a*(x**2) + b*x + c) *(-1)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? screen.set_at(((x+ox),(y+oy)),dark)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? pygame.display.flip()
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? x=x+1;

The main loop belongs in another function.

The drawing bit belongs in another function.

>
> ? ? ? ? return 0
>
> if __name__ == '__main__': main()


>
> For now I'm plotting function only when Determinant >0. Or in other
> words, when equation has two solutions,
> x1,x2 e R... Now if you start my program you will see where problem
> is. It's with function, It so bad drawn.
> When I try to increment x in loop by 0.1 for every pass, I get
> problems because method set_at() Which sets pixel requires integer...
>

Your drawing function that you write should take a scaling factor in
addition to the equation it is trying to draw.

You'll have to round the floats to the nearest integer. This is pretty
easy to do:

 number_as_int = int(number_as_float + 0.5)

Rather than step between arbitrary numbers, step through every point
on the graph. For this equation, y = a x^2 + b x + c, right? So walk
from left-to-right over all visible values of x (0 to 400, or rather
-200 to 200) and find y.



> I don't have in this year Computer Graphics on my faculty. So this are
> my first steps in this area of CS.
>

This is a very good first step. You have a bright future in
programming and perhaps in computer graphics.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Aug 12 18:38:44 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 23:38:44 +0100
Subject: Format Code Repeat Counts?
In-Reply-To: <50697b2c0908121523jc495a65y1957a503b4f10566@mail.gmail.com>
References: 
	<50697b2c0908121523jc495a65y1957a503b4f10566@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A834474.9000304@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Chris Rebert wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 4:34 PM, jschwab wrote:
> 
>> As a more concrete example, say I have several sets of letters in a
>> list of strings
>>     letters = ["aeiou", "hnopty", "egs", "amsp"]
>> and I wanted to build a regular expression string out of them like
>>     re_str <==> "[aeiou][hnopty][egs][amsp]"
>> Right now, the best I've got that doesn't require an explicit string
>> like "[{1}][{2}][{3}][{4}]" is
>>     re_str = "".join(map(lambda x: "[{0}]".format(x), letters))
>>
>> Is there a better way?
> 
> Slightly better, by using a generator expression instead of map() and lambda:
> re_str = "".join("[{0}]".format(x) for x in letters)
> 
> Though obviously MRAB's is shorter (and a good show of lateral thinking).
> 
Python 3.1 supports auto-numbered placeholders "[{}]", so:

     re_str = ("[{}]" * len(letters)).format(*letters)


From emile at fenx.com  Wed Aug 12 18:45:00 2009
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 15:45:00 -0700
Subject: Format Code Repeat Counts?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 8/12/2009 1:34 PM jschwab said...
> Are repeat counts supported Python's str.format() in some fashion?
> 
> In Fortran my format strings can have repeat counts.
> 
> 
> write(*, fmt="3F8.3") [1, 2, 3]
>    1.000  2.000   3.000
> 
> 
> I don't think printf-style format codes, which is what'd I'd
> previously used in Python, allow for repeat counts.
> 
> As a more concrete example, say I have several sets of letters in a
> list of strings
>      letters = ["aeiou", "hnopty", "egs", "amsp"]
> and I wanted to build a regular expression string out of them like
>      re_str <==> "[aeiou][hnopty][egs][amsp]"
> Right now, the best I've got that doesn't require an explicit string
> like "[{1}][{2}][{3}][{4}]" is
>      re_str = "".join(map(lambda x: "[{0}]".format(x), letters))
> 
> Is there a better way?
> 

I don't know.  I often end up at something like:

"[%s]"*len(letters) % tuple(letters)

Emile



From gb345 at invalid.com  Wed Aug 12 18:57:33 2009
From: gb345 at invalid.com (gb345)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 22:57:33 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need feedback on ORF-extracting code
Message-ID: 



Hi everyone.  I'm relatively new to Python, and could use your
feedback on the code below.

First some nomenclature.  A "nucleotide" is one of A, C, G, T, or
U.  (In practice, a sequence of such nucleotides never contains
both T and U, but this fact is not important in what follows.)  A
"codon" is a sequence of 3 of these.  A "stop codon" is any one of
UAA, UAG, UGA, TAA, TAG, or TGA.  Two codons are said to be "in
frame" in a containing sequence of nucleotides if their positions
differ by a multiple of 3.  An "open reading frame," or ORF, is
defined as a maximal subsequence of nucleotides whose length is a
multiple of 3, begins with either AUG or ATG, terminates right
before a stop codon in the original sequence, and contains no stop
codons that are in frame with the initial codon (AUG or ATG).

The fact that ORFs have lengths that are multiples of 3 means that
there are three possible "registers" for ORFs (depending the modulo
3 of their starting positions), and that ORFs in different registers
can overlap.  I'll refer to these registers as 0, 1, and 2, because
they contain ORFs that are in frame with the codons at positions
0, 1, and 2 of the original sequence, respectively.

In the code below, routine extract_orfs takes as input a string,
assumed to be a sequence of nucleotides, and returns a tuple of
tuples, describing ORFs.  These ORFs can overlap.

The helper routine _xo takes as input a string (a sequence of
nucleotides), and an offset, and returns a tuple of tuples, again
representing ORFs, but this time all in the same register, since
they are all in frame with the position passed as the second argument
to the function.

I would appreciate your comments on this code.  I feel that it is
not as clear as it could be, but I don't know how to make it any
clearer.

(NOTE: I realize that, in all likelihood, publicly available Python
code already exists for this.  At the moment I'm more interested
in improving my Python skills.)


Many thanks in advance!

Gabe



# BEGINNING OF CODE
import sys
import re

_start = r'A[TU]G'
_stop = r'(?:[TU]A[AG]|[TU]GA)'
_nonstop = r'(?:[CAG][TUCAG]{2}|[TU](?:[TUC][TUCAG]|[AG][TUC])|[TU]GG)'
_codon = r'(?:[TUCAG]{3})'
_orf_re = re.compile('(' + _codon + r'*?)(A[TU]G' +
                     _nonstop + '*)(' + _stop + ')', flags=re.I)
_lead_re = re.compile(r'[TUCAG]*?A[TU]G', flags=re.I)

def _xo(seq, pos):
    """
    Helper routine that finds all the non-overlapping in-frame orfs
    starting from a specific position in the input sequence.

    input: a string of letters in the set 'tucagTUCAG', and a starting
           position;
    output: a tuple of tuples; each internal tuple consists of a
            starting position, an orf, and the stop codon that
            terminates it.
    """
    
    ret = []
    while True:
        m = _orf_re.match(seq, pos)
        if not m:
            break
        orf = m.group(2)
        stop = m.group(3)
        assert len(orf) % 3 == 0
        ret.append((m.start() + len(m.group(1)), orf, stop))
        pos = m.end()
    return ret

def extract_orfs(seq):
    """
    Extracts all (possibly overlapping) maximal open reading frames,
    defined as sequences beginning with AUG (or ATG), ending with an
    in-frame stop codon, and containing no in-frame stop codons
    in-between.

    input: a string of letters in the set 'tucagTUCAG';
    output: a tuple of tuples; each internal tuple consists of a
            starting position, an orf, and the stop codon that
            terminates it.
    """

    m = _lead_re.match(seq)
    if not m:
        return ()
    pos = m.start()
    ret = []

    for i in range(min(3, len(seq))):
        ret.extend(_xo(seq, pos + i))
    ret.sort()
    return tuple(ret)

# END OF CODE


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Wed Aug 12 19:19:20 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 12 Aug 2009 23:19:20 GMT
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<3611ca55-79a6-4336-9041-07d0893789f7@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
	<0447e8a2-508d-45b2-8d15-da0cc2a56b5f@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	
	<494d80f1-0b47-468c-bdd9-7a087f6d915c@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	
	<7877b03a-09da-4836-804c-502b6f78003c@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <02933e60$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:21:34 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:

> On Aug 12, 5:32 am, Steven D'Aprano
>  wrote:
> 
>> That problem basically boils down to a deep-seated philosophical
>> disagreement over which philosophy a language should follow in regard
>> to backslash escapes:
>>
>> "Anything not explicitly permitted is forbidden"
>>
>> versus
>>
>> "Anything not explicitly forbidden is permitted"
> 
> No, it doesn't. It boils down to whether a language should:
> 
> (1) Try it's best to detect errors as early as possible, especially when
> the cost of doing so is low.

You are making an unjustified assumption: \y is not an error. It is only 
an error if you think that anything not explicitly permitted is forbidden.

While I'm amused that you've made my own point for me, I'm less amused 
that you seem to be totally incapable of seeing past your parochial 
language assumptions, even when those assumptions are explicitly pointed 
out to you. Am I wasting my time engaging you in discussion? 

There's a lot more I could say, but time is short, so let me just 
summarise:

I disagree with nearly everything you say in this post. I think that a 
few points you make have some validity, but the vast majority are based 
on a superficial and confused understanding of language design 
principles. (I won't justify that claim now, perhaps later, time 
permitting.) Nevertheless, I think that your ultimate wish -- for \y etc 
to be considered an error -- is a reasonable design choice, given your 
assumptions. But it's not the only reasonable design choice, and Bash has 
made a different choice, and Python has made yet a third reasonable 
choice, and Pascal made yet a fourth reasonable choice.

These are all reasonable choices, all have some good points and some bad 
points, but ultimately the differences between them are mostly arbitrary 
personal preference, like the colour of a car. Disagreements over 
preferences I can live with. One party insisting that red is the only 
logical colour for a car, and that anybody who prefers white or black or 
blue is illogical, is unacceptable.



-- 
Steven


From nobody at nowhere.com  Wed Aug 12 19:23:10 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 00:23:10 +0100
Subject: How to page output in >>> ?
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 21:41:38 +0000, kj wrote:

> How does one tell the python interactive interpreter to run the
> next output to stdout through the default pager?  Basically, I'm
> looking for Python's equivalent of Perl's debugger's "|" prefix,
> as in
> 
>   DB<1> |print $long_output

Something like:

	sys.stdout.flush()
	p = subprocess.Popen([os.environ['PAGER']], stdin = subprocess.PIPE)
	sys.stdout = p.stdin

	...

	sys.stdout.flush()
	sys.stdout = sys.__stdout__
	p.stdin.close()
	p.wait()

but with error and exception handling.

But personally, I'd write the data to the child process explicitly if
that's possible.



From mdekauwe at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 19:29:38 2009
From: mdekauwe at gmail.com (Martin)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 16:29:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: matching patterns after regex?
References: <61bef795-f146-4bdd-b5b3-a212e6d9197c@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<2387d409-110a-451d-b301-6d7fe4abc793@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> 
	 
	<0292a4a9$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<18d5d342-b678-4101-a284-24d6176ac856@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	 
	<85652297-16e7-489f-9e36-5092941df002@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 12, 10:29?pm, Mark Lawrence  wrote:
> Bernard wrote:
> > On 12 ao?t, 12:43, Martin  wrote:
> >> On Aug 12, 1:42 pm, Martin  wrote:
>
> >>> On Aug 12, 1:23 pm, Steven D'Aprano  >>> cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> >>>> On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 05:12:22 -0700, Martin wrote:
> >>>>> I tried
> >>>>> re.findall((\w+COORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.\w-]+),s)
> >>>> You need to put quotes around strings.
> >>>> In this case, because you're using regular expressions, you should use a
> >>>> raw string:
> >>>> re.findall(r"(\w+COORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.\w-]+)",s)
> >>>> will probably work.
> >>>> --
> >>>> Steven
> >>> Thanks I see.
> >>> so I tried it and if I use it as it is, it matches the first instance:
> >>> I
> >>> n [594]: re.findall(r"(\w+COORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.\w-]+)",s)
> >>> Out[594]: [('NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE', '1')]
> >>> So I adjusted the first part of the regex, on the basis I could sub
> >>> NORTH for SOUTH etc.
> >>> In [595]: re.findall(r"(NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.
> >>> \w-]+)",s)
> >>> Out[595]: [('NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE', '1')]
> >>> But in both cases it doesn't return the decimal value rather the value
> >>> that comes after NUM_VAL = , rather than VALUE = ?
> >> I think I kind of got that to work...but I am clearly not quite
> >> understanding how it works as I tried to use it again to match
> >> something else.
>
> >> In this case I want to print the values 0.000000 and 2223901.039333
> >> from a string like this...
>
> >> YDim=1200\n\t\tUpperLeftPointMtrs=(0.000000,2223901.039333)\n\t\t
>
> >> I tried which I though was matching the statement and printing the
> >> decimal number after the equals sign??
>
> >> re.findall(r"(\w+UpperLeftPointMtrs)*=\s([\d\.\w-]+)", s)
>
> >> where s is the string
>
> >> Many thanks for the help
>
> > You have to do it with 2 matches in the same regex:
>
> > regex = r"UpperLeftPointMtrs=\(([\d\.]+),([\d\.]+)"
>
> > The first match ?is before the , and the second one is after the , :)
>
> > You should probably learn how to play with regexes.
> > I personnaly use a visual tool called RX Toolkit[1] that comes with
> > Komodo IDE.
>
> > [1]http://docs.activestate.com/komodo/4.4/regex.html
>
> Haven't tried it myself but how about this?http://re-try.appspot.com/
>
> --
> Kindest regards.
>
> Mark Lawrence.

Thanks Mark and Bernard. I have managed to get it working and I
appreciate the help with understanding the syntax. The web links are
also very useful, I'll give them a go.

Martin


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Aug 12 19:40:03 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 00:40:03 +0100
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
In-Reply-To: <02933e60$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>			<3611ca55-79a6-4336-9041-07d0893789f7@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>		<0447e8a2-508d-45b2-8d15-da0cc2a56b5f@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>		<494d80f1-0b47-468c-bdd9-7a087f6d915c@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>		<7877b03a-09da-4836-804c-502b6f78003c@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<02933e60$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4A8352D3.3070003@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:21:34 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:
> 
>> On Aug 12, 5:32 am, Steven D'Aprano
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> That problem basically boils down to a deep-seated philosophical
>>> disagreement over which philosophy a language should follow in regard
>>> to backslash escapes:
>>>
>>> "Anything not explicitly permitted is forbidden"
>>>
>>> versus
>>>
>>> "Anything not explicitly forbidden is permitted"
>> No, it doesn't. It boils down to whether a language should:
>>
>> (1) Try it's best to detect errors as early as possible, especially when
>> the cost of doing so is low.
> 
> You are making an unjustified assumption: \y is not an error. It is only 
> an error if you think that anything not explicitly permitted is forbidden.
> 
> While I'm amused that you've made my own point for me, I'm less amused 
> that you seem to be totally incapable of seeing past your parochial 
> language assumptions, even when those assumptions are explicitly pointed 
> out to you. Am I wasting my time engaging you in discussion? 
> 
> There's a lot more I could say, but time is short, so let me just 
> summarise:
> 
> I disagree with nearly everything you say in this post. I think that a 
> few points you make have some validity, but the vast majority are based 
> on a superficial and confused understanding of language design 
> principles. (I won't justify that claim now, perhaps later, time 
> permitting.) Nevertheless, I think that your ultimate wish -- for \y etc 
> to be considered an error -- is a reasonable design choice, given your 
> assumptions. But it's not the only reasonable design choice, and Bash has 
> made a different choice, and Python has made yet a third reasonable 
> choice, and Pascal made yet a fourth reasonable choice.
> 
IHMO, it would've been simpler in the long run to say that backslash
followed by one of [0-9A-Za-z] is an escape sequence, backslash followed
by newline is ignored, and backslash followed by anything else is that
something. That way there would be a way to introduce additional escape
sequences without breaking existing code.


From davea at ieee.org  Wed Aug 12 20:30:16 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 20:30:16 -0400
Subject: How to launch a function at regular time intervals ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A835E98.2070507@ieee.org>

David wrote:
> Hi all, I'm trying to launch a function at regular time intervals but
> cannot find the way to do it. Here is the code I wrote (time_interval
> is a user defined variable in seconds):
>
> while(1)
>   timestamp=datetime.now()
>  
> timestamp_seconds=timestamp.hour*3600+timestamp.minute*60+timestamp.second
>   if timestamp_seconds % time_interval == 0: ****Call Function****
>
> This does not work because during the second at which the condition
> holds true, there is time to call the function several times. Since I
> want to have this function called only once every x seconds, I tried
> to add the following condition:
>
> if timestamp_seconds % time_interval ==0 & timestamp.microsecond == 0
>
> But it seems this second condition hardly ever happens (i.e. the
> timestamp variable is not updated every microsecond, therefore it can
> be 9998 then jump directly to 0003 for instance).
>
> Has anyone run into a similar problem (and solved it) ?
>
> Thanks for your help
>
>   
I'm assuming you want to call it every time_interval seconds, on 
average, with a little jitter allowed on each call, but keeping correct 
long term.  In other words, if one call is a little late, you want the 
next one to still happen as close to on-time as possible.

The general outline is something like (untested):

times_called = 0           #number of times function has been called
start_time = now
while True:
     elapsed = now - start_time
     int_elapsed = int(elapsed/time_interval)
     for times_called in range(times_called, int_elapsed):
                    call_the_function()
     sleep(time_interval/10)           #this might give us 10% jitter, 
which is usually fine

DaveA


From drobinow at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 20:53:43 2009
From: drobinow at gmail.com (David Robinow)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 20:53:43 -0400
Subject: httplib incredibly slow :-(
In-Reply-To: <4A82EFDC.70502@simplistix.co.uk>
References: <4A81D3CB.7080209@simplistix.co.uk>
	
	<4A82EFDC.70502@simplistix.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4eb0089f0908121753o5ecf141dj304b21c3df0d3d6b@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Chris Withers wrote:
> David Stanek wrote:
>> Also on the same box where you run this script
>> can you test with curl or wget?
> It's a Windows box, so no :-(

Why not?

http://users.ugent.be/~bpuype/wget/
http://curl.haxx.se/download.html


From arphaksad at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 21:15:42 2009
From: arphaksad at gmail.com (naaman)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 18:15:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: fileinput
References: 
	
Message-ID: <521d7322-b8ee-490e-8cde-7e854e8afb7a@r34g2000vba.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 12, 1:35?pm, Dave Angel  wrote:
> naaman wrote:
> > I'm writing my first Python script and
> > I want to use fileinput to open a file in r+ mode.
> > Tried fileinput.input(sys.argv[1:],"r+") but that didn't work.
> > ANy ideas?
>
> > Need to find and overwrite a line in a file several times.
> > I can do it using open and seek() etc. but was wondering if I can use
> > fileinput.
>
> > thanks;
>
> I haven't used it, but check out the 'inplace' keyword parameter.
>
> DaveA

I've only Python for a week so I'm not sure what inplace does


From rylesny at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 21:25:40 2009
From: rylesny at gmail.com (ryles)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 18:25:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: run all scripts in sub-directory as subroutines?
References: 
Message-ID: <0639e183-5c38-42b6-8411-3fd53e5ec01d@r34g2000vba.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 11, 5:12?pm, guthrie  wrote:
> This works fine, but in the sub-modules the sys.path appropriately
> returns the same as from the parent, I want them to know their own
> file names. How?? I can pass it to them, but wondered if there is a
> more self-sufficient way for a module to know from where it was
> invoked.

Instead of sys.path, you may be interested in the __file__ attribute
will give you a module's filename:

http://docs.python.org/reference/simple_stmts.html#index-1031

You could also be more explicit in matching *.py files in your
subdirectory by using glob:

http://docs.python.org/library/glob.html


From cousinstanley at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 22:21:25 2009
From: cousinstanley at gmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 02:21:25 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	
	<7f7c3e90-6026-411f-8b4a-829798819128@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
	<3fdfb992-058b-4017-b1b3-db3a9542b62e@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 



> FWIW, I support the idea the regular docs incorporating links 
> to freely editable wiki pages.  That will at least make it 
> easier for people to make changes or add notes.
>
> That being said, I would like to add a few thoughts about the
> current process.   ISTM that important corrections (when the
> docs are clearly in error) tend to get made right away.  What
> is more interesting are the doc requests that get rejected
> and why:
> ....
> In short, most doc requests that get rejected are requests 
> that didn't actually improve the documentation.
> .... 

Raymond ....

  Thanks for your very eloquent and cohernt response
  that in my opinion helps to explain many of the 
  problems, either real or perceived, with the Python
  documentation ....


-- 
Stanley C. Kitching
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona



From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Wed Aug 12 22:24:19 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 19:24:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: csv.DictWriter.write_header()
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 13, 6:45?am, Alan G Isaac  wrote:
> Given a csv.DictWriter instance `dw`
> I think it would be nice to be able to
> say dw.write_header()
> instead of
> dw.writer.writerow(dw.fieldnames)
>
> Good idea?

Yes, it's a brilliant idea. All you have to do is insert the following
lines in your code after importing csv:

csv.DictWriter.write_header = (
    lambda dw: dw.writer.writerow(dw.fieldnames)
    )


From saptarshi.guha at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 22:32:26 2009
From: saptarshi.guha at gmail.com (sapsi)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 19:32:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Write binary data to standard error?
Message-ID: <9514cb7a-2962-484a-9669-c39533de138b@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

Hello,
This is probably a basic question, but how does one write binary data
to standard error e.g int as network order (4 bytes)?

Much thanks
Saptarshi


From saptarshi.guha at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 22:44:38 2009
From: saptarshi.guha at gmail.com (Saptarshi)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 19:44:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Write binary data to standard error?
References: <9514cb7a-2962-484a-9669-c39533de138b@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <765589c3-98da-45b9-ab35-475ca5c76250@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 12, 10:32?pm, sapsi  wrote:
> Hello,
> This is probably a basic question, but how does one write binary data
> to standard error e.g int as network order (4 bytes)?
>
> Much thanks
> Saptarshi

Solved:
import sys
import os
from struct import *

d=os.fdopen(sys.stderr.fileno(),"wb")
d.write("\x00")
d.write(pack(">i",5))


From alan.isaac at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 23:15:51 2009
From: alan.isaac at gmail.com (Alan G Isaac)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 03:15:51 GMT
Subject: csv.DictWriter.write_header()
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

> On Aug 13, 6:45 am, Alan G Isaac  wrote:
>> Given a csv.DictWriter instance `dw`
>> I think it would be nice to be able to
>> say dw.write_header()
>> instead of
>> dw.writer.writerow(dw.fieldnames)
>>
>> Good idea?


On 8/12/2009 10:24 PM John Machin apparently wrote:
> Yes, it's a brilliant idea. All you have to do is insert the following
> lines in your code after importing csv:
> 
> csv.DictWriter.write_header = (
>     lambda dw: dw.writer.writerow(dw.fieldnames)
>     )


I do not understand the reason for your silly, sarcastic response.
I already showed you how to achieve the result, so obviously
I am not just asking for my own personal gain.

I take it you do not realize that many users do not see
a simple way to get this often needed functionality.
(For example, see the gymnatics suggested by Shai Vaingast
in his otherwise excellent and useful book.) And indeed,
there is no reason to expect them to.

So my question was, would this improve the class from
a usability perspective?  Do you have a useful response?

Alan Isaac


From rurpy at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 12 23:23:27 2009
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 20:23:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <65053f02-0e64-4070-90c8-e04394be90ad@d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On 08/12/2009 01:58 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:50:51 -0700, rurpy wrote:
>
>>>> The issue tracker is fine for many things, but the process it provides
>>>> is equivalent to peep-hole optimization.  How does one submit a
>>>> tracker issue for something like the overall organization of the docs
>>>> (for example, the mis-placement of things like data- types in the
>>>> library manual rather than the language manual)?
>>> The same way you would submit a tracker issue for anything.
>>>
>>> "Documentation bug: Data types are misplaced in the library manual
>>> instead of the language manual.
>>>
>>> Suggested alternative: move page docs.python.org/xyz.html to abc.html"
>> But that's the problem.  Such a reorg is not a simple matter of moving a
>> file from here to there.  It will require a lot moving about of sections
>> and a lot of word-smithing to glue them back together again in a
>> coherent way.
>
> That's no different from *any* major refactoring. The exact same problem
> exists for code as well as documentation. It's a solved problem for code,
> and it's a solved problem for documentation.

Huh?  I don't buy this at all.  Code refactoring doesn't change
the semantics of the program at all -- it simplifies the code
that implements behavior without changing behavior.  How does
this apply to revising documentation?  It may be true that some
of the same techniques applicable to maintaining code are
applicable to documentation but I need a lot more than your
assertion to believe they are as equivalent as you seem to be
claiming.

> In some order:
>
> Consensus that there is a problem that needs solving;
> Volunteer(s) to do the work;
> Somebody to take responsibility to check the changes in.

That's not refactoring as I understand it -- that is making a
large change.  I don't see that that addresses the problem of
getting a large patch approved or the other issues I mentioned.

> Sometimes, in the face of apathy or disagreement (which may very well be
> justified), you have to at least partly solve the problem *before* people
> will agree that it needed to be solved. Welcome to the real world.
>
>> A tracker issue, even one that was fairly specific about how things
>> should be reorganized but which did not provide all the needed changes
>> (a large patch) would almost certainly be ignored or rejected.
>
> Yes it would. Most patches are ignored, because the dev team are
> overworked, and if they don't see the need for a patch, they won't
> approve it.

I'm confused.  If they weren't overworked, then they would
approve patches they didn't see a need for?  Or are you
saying because they are overworked they fail to approve patches
that should be approved?  I am not sure how either supports
the argument that the tracker is the best method of improving
the docs.

>> But
>> providing a large patch raises two questions.  How likely is it to be be
>> accepted? (Something anyone would want to know before investing the
>> time.) And how to actually do the work needed to generate it (it could
>> be a very large amount of work for an individual and I don't think it
>> can be broken down into small independent issues.) How is one to test
>> the waters as to acceptability, or solicit help, if one simply submits a
>> tracker issue?
>
> No, submitting a tracker issue is a necessary but not sufficient step.
> Without a tracker issue, you're very unlikely to have people agree to
> replace the existing docs with your docs, although a PEP would probably
> do it. (A PEP is significantly more effort than raising a tracker issue.)

Has there ever been a PEP for a doc change?  Are you making
a serious suggestion?

> You also have to get attention from those with check-in privileges. If
> they approve your patches, you're done. If they don't approve them, or
> fail to respond, you can try convincing them, or taking it to the Python-
> Dev list and request somebody review your patches.
>
> If you have no patches, perhaps because you're unwilling to invest the
> effort without a guarantee that it will be treated seriously, then you
> need to get some sort of consensus among the relevant people that the
> problem is worth solving.

You are again describing the current process, not the issue
of whether the current process is the optimal one or not.

And while I would never expect a guarantee that a particular
submission would be accepted, I think I would need, if not a
guarantee, at least a high expectation that a submission would
be treated seriously before I invested a large amount of work
in it.

> Guess what? Sometimes others will disagree with you. What you see as the
> Worst. Docs. EVAR. may be seen as perfectly adequate, even excellent, by
> others. If this is the case, remember, Python isn't your product, you
> don't have veto over what goes into it. Feel free to publish your
> alternatives. Write a book. Go home and cry into your beer over it.
> Whatever. Sometimes you win, and sometimes you don't.

Right, this is obvious.  But the other side of that coin
is that if people who see problems with the docs perceive
that those who control access to the docs have no interest in
changing them, then the first group will likely post their
complaints on this newsgroup.  If you don't like that then you
have the same choices you listed above.  Of course if the docs
really are that good, there will relatively few complaints and
the vast majority of readers will recognize the few complaints
as invalid and ignore them, so if you are right that the docs
are good enough, there should be no problem.

> This is the same process whether dealing with code or documentation.
>
>>> - if people are keen on a Python wiki, then by all means publish one,
>>> just don't expect the Python dev team to build and manage it for you;
>> As luminous a Pythoneer as Fredrik Lundh set up a documentation wiki to
>> collect user contributions but it has faded away.  If he couldn't pull
>> it off then I'd say most other attempts without the backing of
>> python.org are almost certainly doomed to failure.
>
> Perhaps that's a good indication that a Python wiki *doesn't* fulfill a
> need in the community, and that despite what a few squeaky wheels think,
> the docs *are* doing a good job?

That fails to explain the repeated criticisms of the docs here
and in blogs.  Of course this argument is not likely to convince
you since there is no reliable quantitative support for the
claim that there are more complaints about the docs than other
aspects of Python -- it relies on each individual's powers of
observation.  But you also have to explain away very specific
criticisms of the docs such as Xah Lee's as invalid or
exceptions.

>> As long as every "the docs
>> sux" complaint is met here with the standard responses that I've
>> mentioned,
>
> But they aren't met with such a so-called "standard response".

I just looked through the first 70 or so messages in this thread
and in this case I have agree with you, most of the responses were
not what I called "standard responses".  There was one guy, a
Steven D'Aprano early on that trotted out the, "it's free software,
fix it if you don't like it" line, and the troll epithet was used
a time or two, but the vast majority were in fact reasonable and
thoughtful responses.  I will try to find some examples from
other past threads.

>> rather than, "yes, they do have some problems, what do you
>> think we should do about them?",
>
> We know that there are problems. We've said repeatedly that corrections
> and patches are welcome. We've repeatedly told you how to communicate
> your answer to the question of what should be done. None of this is good
> enough for you. I don't know what else you expect.

You have been told repeatedly why your insistence that the
tracker must be the only channel, is wrong.  I don't understand
why you can't understand that.

(Generally only those in authority, bosses, parents, police,
and the like, "tell" others what a situation is and have a
right to demand that the subject accept it without question.
I think you could find a more respectful and less authoritarian
way of phrasing what you said above since you are not in
a position of authority over me.)

And who exactly is this "we" that you are a member of?

>>> If you won't put in the effort, and you won't put in the money, then it
>>> won't happen. Moaning that other people aren't putting in the money to
>>> hire team of professional writers isn't productive, and moaning that
>>> other people aren't putting in the effort to improve the docs isn't
>>> either.
>> Eh?  I have a computer filled with software that I put no money or
>> effort into, yet there it is.
>
> Ah yes, I'm sorry, I missed one other alternative: sit around and wait
> for somebody else to put in the money and/or effort.
>
>> That some of us choose to
>> invest it somewhere other than Python does not deprive of of our right
>> to point out problems in Python when we note them.
>
> Of course not. But it does mean that you won't be taken seriously, and
> you have no right to be taken seriously.

On usenet no one has a right to anything.  You can take my
posts however you wish.  I've tried to make reasonable arguments
to support my view (with the understanding that these are usenet
posts, not a doctoral thesis).  But you (and the unnamed "we"
above) seem to feel that public complaints or discussion about
better alternatives to the current doc improvement process are
somehow out-of-bounds.  I'm sorry, I disagree.


From http  Thu Aug 13 00:11:12 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 12 Aug 2009 21:11:12 -0700
Subject: Scraping Wikipedia with Python
References: 
	<4a81b6f0$0$1590$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	
	<6YidncRAiJ6SIxzXRVn_vwA@giganews.com>
	
	<7xd472hz2x.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
Message-ID: <7xtz0c8ian.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Dotan Cohen  writes:
> > maybe you want dbpedia.
> I did not know about this. Thanks!

You might also like freebase/metaweb.


From walkraft at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 00:15:02 2009
From: walkraft at gmail.com (casebash)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 21:15:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Nice copy in interactive terminal
Message-ID: 

Hello fellow Python Users,

I've been wondering for a while if there exists an interactive
terminal which has nice copy feature (ie. I can copy code without
getting the >>> in front of every line).

Thanks,

Chris

PS. apologies if I am posting this in the wrong group. I am unsure of
the exact scope of this group.


From frank at chagford.com  Thu Aug 13 00:20:05 2009
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 06:20:05 +0200
Subject: How to launch a function at regular time intervals ?
References: 
Message-ID: 


On Aug 12, 11:09 pm, David  wrote:
> Hi all, I'm trying to launch a function at regular time intervals but
> cannot find the way to do it.

I assume you want your main program to continue running, while launching the 
function to run in the background.

If you need this as a general capability, Christian's approach is probably 
the way to go.

In my case I had one specific requirement, and found it easier to write a 
dedicated solution, as follows -

import threading

class MyFunction(threading.Thread):
    """Perform function every 30 seconds in separate thread"""

    def __init__(self):
        threading.Thread.__init__(self)
        self.event = threading.Event()

    def run(self):
        while not self.event.is_set():
            # either call your function here,
            # or put the body of the function here
            self.event.wait(30)  # wait for 30 seconds

    def stop(self):
        self.event.set()

At the start of the main program, I have the following -
    func = MyFunction()
    func.start()

When closing the main program, I have -
    func.stop()
    func.join()

It is trivial to modify this to pass the interval, plus any other parameters 
required, as arguments.

HTH

Frank Millman




From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Thu Aug 13 00:39:40 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 01:39:40 -0300
Subject: Changing Remote Registry
References: <5caea3690908070652v2ccb3ac8s4336266afe71dcb5@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A7C6D96.3000201@timgolden.me.uk>
	<5caea3690908100547l65394e65le111d8f3dda9e903@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

En Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:47:19 -0300, Kevin Holleran   
escribi?:
> On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 2:08 PM, Tim Golden  wrote:
>> Kevin Holleran wrote:
>>
>>> hKey = _winreg.OpenKey (keyPath, path, 0, _winreg.KEY_SET_VALUE)
>>> value,type = _winreg.QueryValueEx(hKey, item)
>>> if (value == wrongValue):
>>>       _winreg.SetValue(hKey,'',_winreg.REG_SZ,correctValue)
>>>
>>>
>>> When I do this I receive the error:
>>>
>>> _winreg.SetValue WindowsError: [Error 5] Access Denied
>>>
> I guess my question is will Windows let me change the registry remotely?
> The error is a Windows permission error on the KEY_SET_VALUE.  I am  
> running
> this as a domain admin on a machine on the domain.  Does the connection
> inherit the credentials I am running it under or will I need to pass  
> those
> in?  Or does Windows simply not let me change the registry?

Try doing the same interactively with regedt32.exe (logged as the same  
user). You can check your actual permissions under the Edit menu.
Also, try using KEY_WRITE instead of KEY_SET_VALUE.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From bouncyinc at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 00:41:47 2009
From: bouncyinc at gmail.com (John Haggerty)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 22:41:47 -0600
Subject: getting a "simple" program to work
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<50697b2c0908112146q6e12650dt914518166b4fae72@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Just checking to see if this is more adequate to what you would have wanted
to see I didn't get any feedback so I wasn't quite sure of this at the
present time.

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 11:02 PM, John Haggerty  wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 10:46 PM, Chris Rebert  wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 8:42 PM, John Haggerty wrote:
>> > ok so I know this is one of those "weird" requests but here me out.
>> > So far I have an issue with a package for python called "libgmail" which
>> is
>> > basically a gmail interface for python to send messages remoetly.
>> > Works ok except that the 'sendMessage' routine is bad.
>>
>> How is it "bad" precisely? Be specific (e.g. error message(s),
>> description of observed incorrect behavior).
>>
>
> In regards to bad would be failing to transmit claiming that the submittal
> is wrong for the transmit string.
>
> (where username is my gmail username and "password" is my gmail password to
> the test account, 6666666969 is the mobile number in question '00' is my
> "carrier id" from the ogss code example which is just an array location from
> a preformatted part of the string [probably from wikipedia on mobile carrier
> email addresses to cell phones], I actually got desperate and commented out
> the first attempt to transmit which I located in the code as just the
> "instructions" the code fails on re-transmission, I later on looked at the
> file and located that it was a zero byte file of no content. The program
> itself looks for a command from the user's cell phone directly from mms sent
> to the target gmail account prefaced by "Ogss" and anything else is treated
> as a command but since the command failed on the first transmit I don't
> think it's the command per se).
>
> owner at bouncyinc:~/Desktop/OGSS$ python ogss.py username password
> 6666666969 00
> Starting ogss
> Logfile at:/home/owner/ogss.log
> Opening log file for reading
> Parsing user input
> Connecting to Gmail
> Logging into Gmail
> Opening log file for writing
> Listening for commands
> Processing Command
> ls: unrecognized option `---------------------------------------------'
> Try `ls --help' for more information.
> Seding back results
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "ogss.py", line 127, in 
>     main(sys.argv)
>   File "ogss.py", line 110, in main
>     account.sendMessage(tosend)
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/libgmail.py", line 615, in
> sendMessage
>     raise GmailSendError, resultInfo[SM_MSG]
> libgmail.GmailSendError: Please try again.
>
> I traced the result to the sendMessage routine and noted that anytime it
> tries to send anything it fails this also fails with the standard "docs"
> package for libgmail 0.30 docs from the maintainer's site.
>
> Now the part where it *does* fail is where it has an issue with looking at
> the trailing info but then it would have logged the info to the file and
> emailed me back junk (which it didn't)
>
> I assume this could be done on any system just replace 'ls' with 'dir' or
> the equivalent.
>
>
>>
>> > This is included in the above attachment
>> > it's used in a program called "ogss" which is an sms interface to gmail
>> to
>> > basically read gmail and then have a command done on a remote machine
>> and
>> > then spat out on the local machine to a log file that's opened and then
>> > emailed back
>> > problem is that the sending back routine fails.
>>
>> Which routine is that exactly? Please also specify exactly how it is
>> failing (e.g. error message(s), description of observed incorrect
>> behavior).
>>
>> I apologize if these questions are answered in comments in the
>> attachments, but to be honest, the fact that you didn't (or couldn't)
>> put the specific problematic sections of code (and/or error messages)
>> inline in your message makes it less likely that people (such as
>> myself) will try to help you due to the volume of code you're making
>> people wade through (i.e. people tend not to read large code dumps,
>> /especially/ in attachments).
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Chris
>> --
>> http://blog.rebertia.com
>>
> That's ok I understand I hope that helps at least in part.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

From clp2 at rebertia.com  Thu Aug 13 00:42:15 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 00:42:15 -0400
Subject: Nice copy in interactive terminal
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908122142r34f9c386hf8292f59ffa9edf2@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 12:15 AM, casebash wrote:
> Hello fellow Python Users,
>
> I've been wondering for a while if there exists an interactive
> terminal which has nice copy feature (ie. I can copy code without
> getting the >>> in front of every line).

Not quite answering your exact question, but:
- You can control the text of the prompt by modifying sys.ps1
- IPython (http://ipython.scipy.org/moin/) has powerful history
features that are handy if you want a transcript of a REPL session

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Thu Aug 13 01:20:00 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 02:20:00 -0300
Subject: fileinput
References: 
Message-ID: 

En Wed, 12 Aug 2009 01:27:47 -0300, naaman  escribi?:

> I'm writing my first Python script and
> I want to use fileinput to open a file in r+ mode.
> Tried fileinput.input(sys.argv[1:],"r+") but that didn't work.
> ANy ideas?

Don't use fileinput, it can't handle r+, only sequencial access.
Even if you could use it, the documentation says [1]:
fileinput.input([files[, inplace[, backup[, mode[, openhook]]]]])

"r+" corresponds to the `inplace` parameter (behaving like inplace=True)  
instead of `mode`. You could write fileinput.input(sys.argv[1:],  
mode="r+") instead - but again from the docs: "mode... must be one of 'r',  
'rU', 'U' and 'rb'"

> Need to find and overwrite a line in a file several times.
> I can do it using open and seek() etc. but was wondering if I can use
> fileinput.

open+seek is the way to do that (assuming you don't alter the line length)

[1] http://docs.python.org/library/fileinput.html#fileinput.input

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Aug 13 01:34:14 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:34:14 +0900
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
In-Reply-To: <3fdfb992-058b-4017-b1b3-db3a9542b62e@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
References: 	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>		<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>		<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>		<7f7c3e90-6026-411f-8b4a-829798819128@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
	<3fdfb992-058b-4017-b1b3-db3a9542b62e@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Raymond Hettinger wrote:
> On Aug 12, 3:32 am, Paul Boddie  wrote:
>> Maybe the problem is that although everyone welcomes contributions and
>> changes (or says that they do), the mechanisms remain largely beyond
>> criticism.
> 
> FWIW, I support the idea the regular docs incorporating links to
> freely editable wiki pages.  That will at least make it easier for
> people to make changes or add notes.
> 
> That being said, I would like to add a few thoughts about the
> current process. 

The summary that follows accords with my experiences and observations. 
Perhaps you could add it to the Wiki.

   ISTM that important corrections (when the
> docs are clearly in error) tend to get made right away.

Many within a day. I have seen this with both some of my suggestions and 
others.

   What
> is more interesting are the doc requests that get rejected
> and why:

One of my suggestions was postponed pending discussion on PyDev of the 
underlying issue, which I have not initiated yet. Another Georg accepted 
in principle but awaits me taking the time to write a fleshed out 
replacement text.

> * Many doc requests come from people just learning the language
> (that makes sense because the learning process involves reading
> the docs).  Unfortunately, a fair number of those requests are
> flat-out wrong or represent a profound misunderstanding of the
> feature in question.  That may be an indicator that the docs
> need to be improved, but the specific suggestion can be inane.
> 
> * Some doc requests come from people who simply do not like the
> feature in question.  It is natural for tastes, styles, and
> preferences to vary; however, we do have a firm rule that Guido's
> tastes, styles, and preferences are the ones that go into the
> language.  So the doc writers need to try to channel Guido instead
> of fighting him.  So, if you think eval() is evil (I don't but many
> do), we're not going to document that eval() should *never* be used.
> If you hate super(), that's too bad -- the docs need to describe
> what it does and how it was intended to be used -- the docs are no
> place for diatribes on why inheritance is over-used and why you
> think the world would be a better place without mixins or
> multiple inheritance.
> 
> * Then, there is a matter of where to put a particular piece of
> documentation (how many times do you repeat a concept that pervades
> the language).  

I doubt anyone can *really* understand the problem of organizing a 
book's worth in technical information into coherent order until they 
have actually tried to do so.


> Hashing is a good example.  The docs can discuss how
> some objects hash to their object id and that object ids can change
> from run-to-run, but if someone gets tripped-up by the idea (hey,
> my set reprs changed between runs, wtf!), they want the docs updated
> in the specific place that tripped them up (i.e. you must put big
> red warnings in the set documentation, and the dict documentation,
> and everywhere else a hash gets used ...).   The core problem is that
> the docs are interrelated -- the one place you're looking for
> documentation of a specific builtin or function can't contain
> every concept in the language.
> 
> * Some behaviors are intentionally left unspecified.  For the longest
> time, Tim did not want to guarantee sort stability.  This left him
> free to continue to search for algorithmic improvements that did not
> have stability.  Later, the property was deemed so important that it
> did become a guaranteed behavior.  Also, some things are unspecified
> to make things easier for other implementations (IronPython, PyPy,
> Jython, etc.)  We need to make sure that some one doesn't casually
> go through the docs making doc promises that are hard to keep.
> 
> * Some things are just plain difficult to fully explain in English
> and not misrepresent that actual behavior.  For example, the str.split
> ()
> docs have been continuously tweaked over the years.  Even now, I think
> there are corner cases that are not fully captured by the docs.
> Casual
> edits to str.split() docs are more likely than not to take them
> farther
> away from the truth.
> 
> * Then, there is the problem of talking too much.  A book could be
> written about super(), but that shouldn't all go into the docs for
> the super builtin.  Beginners often want to master all the builtins
> and they try to read the doc page on builtin functions.  It used to be
> that you could read through the builtin descriptions in a few minutes.
> Now, it takes a concerted effort to get through.  It is hard to take
> a sip of water from a firehose.  Too much information has make a
> function harder to understand.
> 
> * My biggest pet peeve are requests to fill the docs with big red
> warnings.  I do not want the docs to look like a mine field.  The
> warnings
> should be reserved for a handful of security or data corruption risks.
> For the most part, the docs should be matter-of-fact, explaining what
> a function or method does and how it was intended to be used.
> 
> Preferred:  "The value str.letters is locale dependent"
> 
> Not preferred:  "Caution, the str.letters value can be adversely
> affected by the locale setting (it could even change length!); use
> this
> only when you are certain the locale setting will not violate any of
> your program invariants; consider using a string literal instead; I
> hate
> string.letters and think Guido was smoking crack when it was
> introduced."
> 
> * Another category of rejected doc requests come from people looking
> for
> absolution from one of their programming bugs.  It typically takes the
> form of, "I made an assumption that the language did X, but it did Y
> and my program didn't do what I wanted; therefore, the docs must be
> to blame and they must change ...".  The suggestion is "I was
> suprised"
> implies "the docs are hosed".  The fact is that people with diffferent
> backgrounds are going to have different expectations and someone is
> going to get "surprised".  The docs need to say what functions do, but
> they don't need to be changed everytime someone writes a buggy
> program.
> 
> In short, most doc requests that get rejected are requests that didn't
> actually improve the documentation.
> 
> I do support links from the regular docs to an external wiki but the
> main docs should continue to go through the regular process using the
> tracker.

Agreed

Terry Jan Reedy



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Thu Aug 13 01:36:07 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 02:36:07 -0300
Subject: Format Code Repeat Counts?
References: 
	<50697b2c0908121523jc495a65y1957a503b4f10566@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

En Wed, 12 Aug 2009 19:23:32 -0300, Chris Rebert   
escribi?:

> On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 4:34 PM, jschwab wrote:
> 
>> As a more concrete example, say I have several sets of letters in a
>> list of strings
>> ? ? letters = ["aeiou", "hnopty", "egs", "amsp"]
>> and I wanted to build a regular expression string out of them like
>> ? ? re_str <==> "[aeiou][hnopty][egs][amsp]"
>> Right now, the best I've got that doesn't require an explicit string
>> like "[{1}][{2}][{3}][{4}]" is
>> ? ? re_str = "".join(map(lambda x: "[{0}]".format(x), letters))
>>
>> Is there a better way?
>
> Slightly better, by using a generator expression instead of map() and  
> lambda:
> re_str = "".join("[{0}]".format(x) for x in letters)
>
> Though obviously MRAB's is shorter (and a good show of lateral thinking).

Another way, using {} auto-numbering (requires Python 3.1 or the future  
2.7)

p3> letters = ["aeiou", "hnopty", "egs", "amsp"]
p3> ("[{}]"*len(letters)).format(*letters)
'[aeiou][hnopty][egs][amsp]'


-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Aug 13 01:49:51 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:49:51 +0900
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>		<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>		<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>		<7f7c3e90-6026-411f-8b4a-829798819128@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>	<0292a134$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<3a15345c-9d01-48ab-8f15-dd6053ea70a0@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>	<0292cb5a$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Paul Boddie wrote:

> Right, but those good points are still worth taking on board. There
> have been Xah Lee posts which have been relatively constructive,

The last time that he did do so that I read, I responded rationally like 
I would with any other normal post. He responded with foul insults. End 
of discussion.

 > when the only responses are from people who see the name and can't be
> bothered reading the message before issuing a stock "he's a troll"

False premise.

> response, the tone is likely to remain vulgar from that point onwards.

He was vulgar even when I did ignore the name and did bother to read and 
   write (not 'issue') a specific response. He has also 'blown' 
opportunities on the py-dev list.

tjr




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Aug 13 02:02:45 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 15:02:45 +0900
Subject: Need feedback on ORF-extracting code
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

gb345 wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone.  I'm relatively new to Python, and could use your
> feedback on the code below.
> 
> First some nomenclature.  A "nucleotide" is one of A, C, G, T, or
> U.  (In practice, a sequence of such nucleotides never contains
> both T and U, but this fact is not important in what follows.)  A
> "codon" is a sequence of 3 of these.  A "stop codon" is any one of
> UAA, UAG, UGA, TAA, TAG, or TGA.  Two codons are said to be "in
> frame" in a containing sequence of nucleotides if their positions
> differ by a multiple of 3.  An "open reading frame," or ORF, is
> defined as a maximal subsequence of nucleotides whose length is a
> multiple of 3, begins with either AUG or ATG, terminates right
> before a stop codon in the original sequence, and contains no stop
> codons that are in frame with the initial codon (AUG or ATG).
> 
> The fact that ORFs have lengths that are multiples of 3 means that
> there are three possible "registers" for ORFs (depending the modulo
> 3 of their starting positions), and that ORFs in different registers
> can overlap.  I'll refer to these registers as 0, 1, and 2, because
> they contain ORFs that are in frame with the codons at positions
> 0, 1, and 2 of the original sequence, respectively.
> 
> In the code below, routine extract_orfs takes as input a string,
> assumed to be a sequence of nucleotides, and returns a tuple of
> tuples, describing ORFs.  These ORFs can overlap.
> 
> The helper routine _xo takes as input a string (a sequence of
> nucleotides), and an offset, and returns a tuple of tuples, again
> representing ORFs, but this time all in the same register, since
> they are all in frame with the position passed as the second argument
> to the function.
> 
> I would appreciate your comments on this code.  I feel that it is
> not as clear as it could be, but I don't know how to make it any
> clearer.
> 
> (NOTE: I realize that, in all likelihood, publicly available Python
> code already exists for this.  At the moment I'm more interested
> in improving my Python skills.)
> 
> 
> Many thanks in advance!
> 
> Gabe
> 
> 
> 
> # BEGINNING OF CODE
> import sys
> import re
> 
> _start = r'A[TU]G'
> _stop = r'(?:[TU]A[AG]|[TU]GA)'
> _nonstop = r'(?:[CAG][TUCAG]{2}|[TU](?:[TUC][TUCAG]|[AG][TUC])|[TU]GG)'
> _codon = r'(?:[TUCAG]{3})'
> _orf_re = re.compile('(' + _codon + r'*?)(A[TU]G' +
>                      _nonstop + '*)(' + _stop + ')', flags=re.I)
> _lead_re = re.compile(r'[TUCAG]*?A[TU]G', flags=re.I)
> 
> def _xo(seq, pos):
>     """
>     Helper routine that finds all the non-overlapping in-frame orfs
>     starting from a specific position in the input sequence.
> 
>     input: a string of letters in the set 'tucagTUCAG', and a starting
>            position;
>     output: a tuple of tuples; each internal tuple consists of a
>             starting position, an orf, and the stop codon that
>             terminates it.
>     """
>     
>     ret = []
>     while True:
>         m = _orf_re.match(seq, pos)
>         if not m:
>             break
>         orf = m.group(2)
>         stop = m.group(3)
>         assert len(orf) % 3 == 0

I am not currently familiar with the re module so I cannot comment in 
detail. The assert should be a claim that the re should *never* match 
anything other than a multiple of 3, so that it is a program bug if it 
ever do so.  If this is not true, you should use an if statement.

tjr


>         ret.append((m.start() + len(m.group(1)), orf, stop))
>         pos = m.end()
>     return ret
> 
> def extract_orfs(seq):
>     """
>     Extracts all (possibly overlapping) maximal open reading frames,
>     defined as sequences beginning with AUG (or ATG), ending with an
>     in-frame stop codon, and containing no in-frame stop codons
>     in-between.
> 
>     input: a string of letters in the set 'tucagTUCAG';
>     output: a tuple of tuples; each internal tuple consists of a
>             starting position, an orf, and the stop codon that
>             terminates it.
>     """
> 
>     m = _lead_re.match(seq)
>     if not m:
>         return ()
>     pos = m.start()
>     ret = []
> 
>     for i in range(min(3, len(seq))):
>         ret.extend(_xo(seq, pos + i))
>     ret.sort()
>     return tuple(ret)
> 
> # END OF CODE



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Thu Aug 13 02:16:15 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 03:16:15 -0300
Subject: How to find out in which module an instance of a class is created?
References: <4A7F4874.8030008@johannes-janssen.de>
	<4A7F6016.2060408@cheimes.de> <4A80967F.9030604@johannes-janssen.de>
Message-ID: 

En Mon, 10 Aug 2009 18:51:59 -0300, Johannes Janssen  
 escribi?:

> class A(object):
>     def __init__(self, mod=None):
>         if mod is None:
>             self.mod = sys._getframe(1).f_globals['__name__']
>         else:
>             self.mod = mod
>
> In warnings.warn() they used try around sys._getframe(1). As far as I  
> understand what is done in warnings, there it is not sure what object  
> caused the warning and therefore it is not sure whether you can or  
> cannot use sys._getframe(1). Though in my case it should be quite clear.  
> Can I be sure that my code will always work?

The try/except around sys._getframe(1) is because that function is not  
mandatory/available on all Python implementations (that's the case for  
jython which doesn't provide it).

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Thu Aug 13 02:28:53 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 03:28:53 -0300
Subject: How to page output in >>> ?
References: 
Message-ID: 

En Wed, 12 Aug 2009 18:41:38 -0300, kj  escribi?:

> How does one tell the python interactive interpreter to run the
> next output to stdout through the default pager?  Basically, I'm
> looking for Python's equivalent of Perl's debugger's "|" prefix,
> as in
>
>   DB<1> |print $long_output

Try using pydoc.pager - read the source

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Thu Aug 13 02:36:59 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 08:36:59 +0200
Subject: best practice for documenting a project? pydoc?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 		
	
Message-ID: <4A83B48B.1080307@sequans.com>

Esmail wrote:
> shaileshkumar wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> EPYDOC is very good for automatic generation of documentation from
>> source code.
>>
>> You may also consider Sphinx http://sphinx.pocoo.org/ which is used
>> for many
>> projects including the official Python documentation, documentation of
>> Zope (http://docs.zope.org/).
>> See the full list of projects using Sphinx at 
>> http://sphinx.pocoo.org/examples.html
>>
>> - Shailesh
>
> Hi,
>
> Thanks for the links. Have you heard of something called HappyDoc? I just
> came across it by looking for info on epydoc.
>
> Thanks,
> Esmail
>
I've never used Happydoc. I am using Epydoc, which is very efficient. 
Sphinx is very good as well, but its scope is much larger than 
documenting python code and will not provide  the "click and run"  
effect of epydoc,  for which you don't have to write any additional 
documentation. Epydoc supports restructured text, so you'll be able to 
switch to Sphinx later on without additional work.
But if I remember well, your documentation is for personal use, so I 
guess you'll stick with epydoc.

JM




From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Thu Aug 13 02:53:12 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 03:53:12 -0300
Subject: inspect.stack() performance
References: <2a8674c60908060500k1c77b556la70d06d5feaaef0e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

En Thu, 06 Aug 2009 09:00:45 -0300, Doron Tal   
escribi?:

> I use inspect.stack() to extract some info, such as file name, function  
> name
> and line number, for the sake of logging (home brew logger).
> I tested to see how much time it takes to execute the command:
>
> Python 2.4.3 (#1, Jan 21 2009, 01:11:33)
> [GCC 4.1.2 20071124 (Red Hat 4.1.2-42)] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> import timeit
>>>> t = timeit.Timer('inspect.stack()', 'import inspect')
>>>> t.repeat(3,1000)
> [0.28500604629516602, 0.28315305709838867, 0.29169297218322754]
>>>>
>
> About 280uSec per call.
>
> If I log 1000 times per seconds than I get to spend 28% of the process  
> time
> on inspect.stack()
> Is there a better/quicker way of retrieving the same info?

inspect loads the whole source code of every module in the stack (using  
linecache). If all you want is module name + line number, use this:

f = sys._getframe()
print f.f_globals['__name__'], f.f_lineno

(see a recent post about warnings.warn too)

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Thu Aug 13 03:19:05 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 04:19:05 -0300
Subject: Monkeypatching an object to become callable
References: <87hbwgu7xa.fsf@vostro.rath.org>
	<0aa46ece-64b9-4c28-b690-5ac5937ce3f2@f20g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
	<4a7fd55e$0$32765$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<87iqguey37.fsf@vostro.rath.org>
Message-ID: 

En Tue, 11 Aug 2009 20:21:16 -0300, Nikolaus Rath   
escribi?:

> Bruno Desthuilliers  writes:
>> 7stud a ?crit :
>> (snip)
>>> class Wrapper(object):
>>>     def __init__(self, obj, func):
>>>         self.obj = obj
>>>         self.func = func
>>>
>>>     def __call__(self, *args):
>>>         return self.func(*args)
>>>
>>>     def __getattr__(self, name):
>>>         return object.__getattribute__(self.obj, name)
>>
>> This should be
>>
>>           return getattr(self.obj, name)
>>
>> directly calling object.__getattribute__ might skip redefinition of
>> __getattribute__ in self.obj.__class__ or it's mro.
>
> Works nicely, thanks. I came up with the following shorter version which
> modifies the object in-place:
>
> class Modifier(obj.__class__):
>      def __call__(self):
>          return fn()
>
> obj.__class__ = Modifier
>
>
> To me this seems a bit more elegant (less code, less underscores). Or
> are there some cases where the above would fail?

I assume the above code is inside a function like make_callable(obj, fn)
Then, a new class is created for every instance you make callable; you may  
want to cache all those classes (classes aren't cheap).

Might fail: when obj is not a new-style class, or its __class__ isn't  
writable (e.g. builtin types).

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From chris at simplistix.co.uk  Thu Aug 13 03:20:37 2009
From: chris at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 08:20:37 +0100
Subject: httplib incredibly slow :-(
In-Reply-To: <4eb0089f0908121753o5ecf141dj304b21c3df0d3d6b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4A81D3CB.7080209@simplistix.co.uk>	
		
	<4A82EFDC.70502@simplistix.co.uk>
	<4eb0089f0908121753o5ecf141dj304b21c3df0d3d6b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A83BEC5.40101@simplistix.co.uk>

David Robinow wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Chris Withers wrote:
>> David Stanek wrote:
>>> Also on the same box where you run this script
>>> can you test with curl or wget?
>> It's a Windows box, so no :-(
> 
> Why not?
> 
> http://users.ugent.be/~bpuype/wget/
> http://curl.haxx.se/download.html

Fair point, but I don't see what this will achieve...

I've already established that the file downloads in seconds with 
[something else], so I'd like to understand why python isn't doing the 
same and fix the problem...

Chris

-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting
            - http://www.simplistix.co.uk


From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 03:37:42 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 00:37:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<3611ca55-79a6-4336-9041-07d0893789f7@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
	<0447e8a2-508d-45b2-8d15-da0cc2a56b5f@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	
	<494d80f1-0b47-468c-bdd9-7a087f6d915c@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	
	<7877b03a-09da-4836-804c-502b6f78003c@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<02933e60$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <2cdc3f88-1952-4ca2-9754-5b7583fb5fd8@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 12, 7:19?pm, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:

> You are making an unjustified assumption: \y is not an error.

You are making in an unjustified assumption that I ever made such an
assumption!

My claim is and has always been NOT that \y is inately an error, but
rather that treating unrecognized escape sequences as legal escape
sequences is error PRONE.

> While I'm amused that you've made my own point for me, I'm less
> amused that you seem to be totally incapable of seeing past your
> parochial language assumptions,

Where do you get the notion that my assumptions are in any sense
"parochial"? They come from (1) a great deal of experience programming
very reliable software, and (2) having learned at least two dozen
different programming languages in my life.

> I disagree with nearly everything you say in this post. I think
> that a few points you make have some validity, but the vast
> majority are based on a superficial and confused understanding
> of language design principles.

Whatever. I've taken two graduate level classes at MIT on programming
languages design, and got an A in both classes, and designed my own
programming language as a final project, and received an A+. But I
guess I don't really know anything about the topic at all.

> But it's not the only reasonable design choice, and Bash has
> made a different choice, and Python has made yet a third
> reasonable choice, and Pascal made yet a fourth reasonable choice.

And so did Perl and PHP, and whatever other programming language you
happen to mention. In fact, all programming languages are equally
good, so we might as well just freeze all language design as it is
now. Clearly we can do no better.

> One party insisting that red is the only logical colour for a
> car, and that anybody who prefers white or black or blue is
> illogical, is unacceptable.

If having all cars be red saved a lot of lives, or increased gas
mileage significantly, then it might very well be the best color for a
car. But of course, that is not the case. With programming languages,
there is much more likely to be an actual fact of the matter on which
sorts of language design decisions make programmers more productive on
average, and which ones result in more reliable software.

I will certainly admit that obtaining objective data on such things is
very difficult, but it's a completely different thing that one's color
preference for their car.

|>ouglas


From deets at nospam.web.de  Thu Aug 13 04:01:53 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 10:01:53 +0200
Subject: resume upload wsgi script
In-Reply-To: 
References: <36993141-188c-4b13-8819-e60516d27437@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<7e80jlF2etv0kU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	<7e85i3F2fdc1eU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<9cd75067-8839-44dd-9b42-4ffb15488b66@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
	<7e8ildF2f1hcpU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<49e41062-9e0d-4c5e-beca-edb02d3ce6e8@e34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<7ea4lpF2dvr5cU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
Message-ID: <7ehvjhF2ghuo2U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

gert schrieb:
> On Aug 10, 10:39 am, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
>>> 250KB :)
>> So why do you bother?
>>
>>> Its just HTTP1.1 has everything for making ftp like file transfers
>>> possible.
>>> When I write it to a file then I am back at square one because I still
>>> need to load it completely to get it into a blob.
>> Well, the blob is nothing but datat in the file-system. If you are
>> *really* concerned about that, then don't use the db, but use the
>> filesystem, appending to the file until it's finished - and storing a
>> reference to it to the DB. We do that as well, because otherwise the db
>> will become unmanagable anyway (dumping, backups).
>>
> 
> I also hate debugging sql that contains blob data. So if using files
> how do you clean the http post stuff?
> (b+r'.*?Content-Type: application/octet-stream\r\n\r\n(.*?)\r
> \n--'+b,file,DOTALL)
> using as litlle memory as possible ?
> I can not use PUT upload only because flash does not support PUT.

PUT or POST has nothing todo with that.

It's the question if you need formencoded data or not. If not, you can 
simply upload the data directly, no nead to cleanup anything.

For decoding formencoded data, you will need to write your own parser if 
you insist on these very debatable memory-constraints of yours.

Diez


From efotinis at y  Thu Aug 13 04:56:04 2009
From: efotinis at y (Elias Fotinis (eliasf))
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 11:56:04 +0300
Subject: Nice copy in interactive terminal
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <1250153823.228153@athprx03>

"casebash" wrote:
> I've been wondering for a while if there exists an interactive
> terminal which has nice copy feature (ie. I can copy code without
> getting the >>> in front of every line).

It would help if we knew what platform you're interested in -- your 
User-Agent is G2/1.0, but I don't know what that is.  :o)

On Windows, PythonWin can copy from the interactive window without the 
prompts.



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Thu Aug 13 05:28:25 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 06:28:25 -0300
Subject: Unsigned char array to an unsigned longlong array
References: 
Message-ID: 

En Tue, 11 Aug 2009 23:22:27 -0300, Jus  escribi?:

> Is there a way to have an Array of unsigned longlong (C Type: unsigned
> longlong, Minimum size if bytes: 8) ?
>
> What I want to do is to store an array of bytes in an array of longlongs.
>
> To workaround this issue, I have tried to use the double array (TypeCode
> 'd'), since the size in bytes is the same (8 for instance).

Do you want to operate on it from inside Python, or manage it in some way?  
If not, use whatever format you like, even bytes. It's just a contiguous  
memory block with a known size.

> But it gives me strange result. Please look at the example:
>
>
> import array
>
> myByteArray = array.array('B', [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8])
> myLongArray = array.array('L', myByteArray.tostring() )
>>> myLongArray = array('L', [67305985L, 134678021L])
> myDoubleArray = array.array('d', myByteArray.tostring() )
>>> myDoubleArray = array('d', [5.447603722011605e-270])
>
> If we convert the byte array to an hex form, we will get for the long  
> array:
> [04030201, 08070605].

What do you mean "convert the byte array to an hex form"?

> If we convert this hex array to decimal, we then get the Long Array:
> [67305985, 134678021].
>
>
> Now, if we do the same exercise for the double array, the hex form will  
> look
> like: [0807060504030201].
>
> And the decimal value would be: [5.784376957523072e+17].

How did you got that?

> Where does the 5.447603722011605e-270 value comes from ?

The struct module agrees:

py> s=struct.pack('q', 0x0807060504030201)
py> struct.unpack('d', s)
(5.447603722011605e-270,)

And looking at the hex representation:

py> (5.447603722011605e-270).hex()
'0x1.7060504030201p-895'

The 1. is implied, 7060504030201 are visible (52 bits), and the exponent  
is:

py> hex(-895+1023)
'0x80'

So that value seems OK to me, at least with IEEE 754 hardware...

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From erik.bernoth at googlemail.com  Thu Aug 13 05:32:53 2009
From: erik.bernoth at googlemail.com (Erik Bernoth)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 11:32:53 +0200
Subject: what is it, that I don't understand about python and lazy evaluation?
Message-ID: <46ae62fe0908130232x22241399pdf7a845d9d142962@mail.gmail.com>

Hi List,

look at the following code:

def evens():
    # iterator returning even numbers
    i = 0
    while True:
        yield i
        i += 2

# now get all the even numbers up to 15
L = [n for n in evens() if n < 15]

Isn't it strange, that this code runs (in a lazy language) for eternity? I
would expect python to to spit out (in no time):
>> L
[0, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14]

after 14 it is not nessesary to evaluate evens() any further.

I really started to ask myself if python really is lazy, but everything else
I wrote in lazy style still worked. Example:
>> def test(txt, retval):
..    print(txt)
..    return retval
..
>>> test(1, True) or test(2, True)
1
True
>>> test(1, True) and test(2, True)
1
2
True


Can anybody explain what happens with evens()?

best regards
Erik Bernoth

PS: The code comes from a list post from 2006. You find it here:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2006-November/585783.html
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From andreengels at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 05:58:15 2009
From: andreengels at gmail.com (Andre Engels)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 11:58:15 +0200
Subject: Scraping Wikipedia with Python
In-Reply-To: <6YidncRAiJ6SIxzXRVn_vwA@giganews.com>
References:  
	<4a81b6f0$0$1590$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	 
	<6YidncRAiJ6SIxzXRVn_vwA@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <6faf39c90908130258q21f9c45cqca0c0a0db0a55b6e@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 8:53 PM, David C Ullrich wrote:

> Try reading a little there! Starting there I went to
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Creating_a_bot
>
> where I found a section on existing bots, comments on how the "scraping"
> is not what you want, and even a Python section with a link to something
> labelled ?PyWikipediaBot...

Some information on using the PyWikipediaBot for scraping from someone
who used to program on the bot (and occasionally still does):

To make the framework work, you need to add a file user-config.py with
the following contents:

family = 'wikipedia'
mylang = 'en'

If you want to use the bot to also edit pages on wikipedia, you will
have to add:

usernames['wikipedia']['en'] = 

If you work on another language of course you use that language's
abbreviation instead of en.

The heart of the framework is the file wikipedia.py, you need to
import that one. It contains two important classes: Page and Site,
which represent a wikipedia page and the site as a whole,
respectively.

It is best to put your code in a try like this:

try:
    mysite = wikipedia.getSite()
    
finally:
    wikipedia.stopme()

The stopme() functionality has to do with the bot's behaviour to avoid
over-feeding the server with requests. It has a certain time (default
is 10 seconds) between two requests, but if you have several bots
running, it will lengthen this time. stopme() tells that the bot is
not running any more, so other runs are not delayed by it.
wikipedia.getSite() gets the site object for your default site (if the
settings above are chosen it is the English language Wikipedia).

Still with me? Good, because now we get into the real programming.

The Page class has as its __init__:
    def __init__(self, site, title, insite=None, defaultNamespace=0):

site is here the wiki on which the page exists (usually this will be
mysite, which is why I defined it above), title the title of the page.
The optional parameters are for special usage.

The Page class has a number of methods, which you can find in the
file, but some of the most important are:
page.title() - the title of the page
page.site() - the wiki the page is on
page.get() - the (wiki) text of the page
page.put(text) - saves the page with 'text' as its new content. An
important optional parameter is 'comment', which specifies the summary
that is given with the change
page.exists() - a boolean, true if the page exists, false otherwise
page.linkedPages() - a list of Page objects, being the pages the page links to

However, instead of page.get() it is advisable to use:

wikipedia.getall(site,pages)

with 'site' being a Site object (e.g. mysite) and pages a list (or
more generally, iterable) of Page objects. It will get all pages in
the list using a single call to the wiki, thus speeding up your bot
and at the same time reducing its load on the wiki. Once a page has
been loaded (either through get or through getall), subsequent calls
to page.get() will not reload it. Thus, the normal way of working is
to create a list of pages one is interested in, use getall (in groups
of 60 or so) to load them, then use get to work with them.

Another useful file in the framework is pagegenerators. It provides a
number of generators that yield Page objects. Some interesting ones
(check the code for the exact parameters):

AllpagesPageGenerator: generates all pages of the wiki, alphabetically
from a specified begin
ReferringPageGenerator: all pages linking to a given page
CategorizedPageGenerator: all pages in a given directory
LinkedPageGenerator: all pages linked to from a given page

Other generators are used by 'wrapping them around' a given generator.
The most important of these is the PreloadingGenerator, which ensures
that the page are preloaded (using wikipedia.getall) in groups.

A simple way to use the bot framework to scrape all pages of the
English Wikipedia (warning: This takes a few days!) would be:

import wikipedia
import pagegenerators

basicgen = pagegenerators.AllpagesPageGenerator(includeredirects = False)
generator = pagegenerators.PreloadingGenerator(basicgen, 200)
for page in generator:
    title = page.title()
    text = page.get()
    

-- 
Andr? Engels, andreengels at gmail.com


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Thu Aug 13 06:00:17 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 20:00:17 +1000
Subject: subprocess + python-daemon - bug/problem?
References: <699d22bd-e912-4ea3-92b0-c352a64611fb@n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<828acd8d-a9bd-4506-b695-e537af4587d8@l31g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<873a94ojvi.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <87hbwc58zy.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Ben Finney  writes:

> My first thought was perhaps it's related to the fact that the process
> has no stdout? But setting ?stdout? and ?stderr? to the same file::
> 
>     #! /usr/bin/python
> 
>     import daemon
>     import subprocess
> 
>     fake_console = open("fake_console.txt", "w+")
>     daemon.DaemonContext(stdout=fake_console, stderr=fake_console).open()
>     subprocess.Popen(['echo', '1']).wait()

For newcomers to this thread: the ?daemon? module is provided by the
 ?python-daemon?
distribution, of which I am the maintainer.

> still gives the same error::
> 
>     1
>     Traceback (most recent call last):
>       File "/home/bignose/Projects/python/python-daemon/bin/andy-clegg-test", line 8, in 
>         subprocess.Popen(['echo', '1']).wait()
>       File "/usr/lib/python2.5/subprocess.py", line 1184, in wait
>         pid, sts = self._waitpid_no_intr(self.pid, 0)
>       File "/usr/lib/python2.5/subprocess.py", line 1014, in _waitpid_no_intr
>         return os.waitpid(pid, options)
>     OSError: [Errno 10] No child processes
> 
> I'm not familiar enough with the nuances of the ?subprocess? module to
> know what might be going wrong here. I'd like to know whether it might
> be a problem in the ?python-daemon? library.

I am no closer to a solution on this one. I don't have enough experience
or knowledge of the ?subprocess? module to know whether it's a bug in
?subprocess?, a bug in ?python-daemon?, or a hard-to-track interaction
between the two.

Any narrowing of the problem would be appreciated.

-- 
 \        ?I bought a dog the other day. I named him Stay. It's fun to |
  `\     call him. ?Come here, Stay! Come here, Stay!? He went insane. |
_o__)         Now he just ignores me and keeps typing.? ?Steven Wright |
Ben Finney


From BrianVanderburg2 at aim.com  Thu Aug 13 06:07:11 2009
From: BrianVanderburg2 at aim.com (Brian Allen Vanderburg II)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 06:07:11 -0400
Subject: what is it,
	that I don't understand about python and lazy evaluation?
In-Reply-To: <46ae62fe0908130232x22241399pdf7a845d9d142962@mail.gmail.com>
References: <46ae62fe0908130232x22241399pdf7a845d9d142962@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A83E5CF.7080208@aim.com>

Erik Bernoth wrote:
> Hi List,
>
> look at the following code:
>
> def evens():
>     # iterator returning even numbers
>     i = 0
>     while True:
>         yield i
>         i += 2
>
> # now get all the even numbers up to 15
> L = [n for n in evens() if n < 15]
>
> Isn't it strange, that this code runs (in a lazy language) for 
> eternity? I would expect python to to spit out (in no time):
> >> L
> [0, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14]
>
> after 14 it is not nessesary to evaluate evens() any further.
>
> I really started to ask myself if python really is lazy, but 
> everything else I wrote in lazy style still worked. Example:
> >> def test(txt, retval):
> ..    print(txt)
> ..    return retval
> ..
> >>> test(1, True) or test(2, True)
> 1
> True
> >>> test(1, True) and test(2, True)
> 1
> 2
> True
>
>
> Can anybody explain what happens with evens()?
>
> best regards
> Erik Bernoth
>
> PS: The code comes from a list post from 2006. You find it here: 
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2006-November/585783.html
In the list comprehension, it goes over all the items from the generator 
until the generator is done, and any item that is less than 15 becomes 
part of the list.  The "if n < 15" does not control when the generator 
terminates, only which results from it are selected to be part of the list.

You can pass the maximum desired value to make it terminate:

def evens(max):
    i = 0
    while i <= max:
       yield i
       i += 2

L = list(evens(15))
L: [0, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14]

L = [n for n in evens(15)]
L: [0, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14]


Brian Vanderburg II


From dmhouse at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 07:11:18 2009
From: dmhouse at gmail.com (David House)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 12:11:18 +0100
Subject: what is it, that I don't understand about python and lazy 
	evaluation?
In-Reply-To: <46ae62fe0908130232x22241399pdf7a845d9d142962@mail.gmail.com>
References: <46ae62fe0908130232x22241399pdf7a845d9d142962@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

2009/8/13 Erik Bernoth :
> after 14 it is not nessesary to evaluate evens() any further.

How does Python know this? I.e. how does it know that evens() will
always yield things in ascending order? For example, I could write an
iterator like this:

def my_iter():
    for i in [0,2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16,18,1,3,5]:
        yield i

Now, imagine I do [i for i in my_iter() if i < 15]. If you quit
iterating after `i' becomes 16, you'll miss the valid numbers 1, 3, 5
at the end of the list!

-- 
-David


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Aug 13 07:23:50 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 12:23:50 +0100
Subject: what is it,
	that I don't understand about python and lazy evaluation?
In-Reply-To: <46ae62fe0908130232x22241399pdf7a845d9d142962@mail.gmail.com>
References: <46ae62fe0908130232x22241399pdf7a845d9d142962@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A83F7C6.2060301@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Erik Bernoth wrote:
> Hi List,
> 
> look at the following code:
> 
> def evens():
>     # iterator returning even numbers
>     i = 0
>     while True:
>         yield i
>         i += 2
> 
> # now get all the even numbers up to 15
> L = [n for n in evens() if n < 15]
> 
> Isn't it strange, that this code runs (in a lazy language) for eternity? 
> I would expect python to to spit out (in no time):
>  >> L
> [0, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14]
> 
> after 14 it is not nessesary to evaluate evens() any further.
> 
It's equivalent to:

     L = []
     for n in evens():
         if n < 15
             L.append(n)


From davea at ieee.org  Thu Aug 13 07:50:30 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 07:50:30 -0400
Subject: fileinput
In-Reply-To: <521d7322-b8ee-490e-8cde-7e854e8afb7a@r34g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
References: 	
	<521d7322-b8ee-490e-8cde-7e854e8afb7a@r34g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A83FE06.90305@ieee.org>

naaman wrote:
> On Aug 12, 1:35 pm, Dave Angel  wrote:
>   
>> naaman wrote:
>>     
>>> I'm writing my first Python script and
>>> I want to use fileinput to open a file in r+ mode.
>>> Tried fileinput.input(sys.argv[1:],"r+") but that didn't work.
>>> ANy ideas?
>>>       
>>> Need to find and overwrite a line in a file several times.
>>> I can do it using open and seek() etc. but was wondering if I can use
>>> fileinput.
>>>       
>>> thanks;
>>>       
>> I haven't used it, but check out the 'inplace' keyword parameter.
>>
>> DaveA
>>     
>
> I've only Python for a week so I'm not sure what inplace does
>
>   
You should read the docs for it
    ( http://www.python.org/doc/2.6.2/library/fileinput.html  ),
but it's not very clear to me either  So I dug up an example on the web:
     (ref:   http://effbot.org/librarybook/fileinput.htm )

import fileinput, sys

for line in fileinput.input(inplace=1):
    # /convert Windows/DOS text files to Unix files/
    if line[-2:] == "\r\n":
        line = line[:-2] + "\n"
    sys.stdout.write(line)


The inplace argument tells it to create a new file with the same name as 
the original (doing all the necessary nonsense with using a scratch 
file, and renaming/deleting) for each file processed.  Stdout is pointed 
to that new version of the file.  Notice that you have to explicitly 
write everything you want to wind up in the file -- if a given line is 
to remain unchanged, you just write "line" directly.

If you're new to Python, I do not recommend trying to do open/seek to 
update a text file in place, especially if you're in DOS.  There are 
lots of traps.  the inplace method of fileinput avoids these by 
implicitly creating temp files and handling the details for you, which 
probably works great if you're dealing with text, in order.

DaveA



From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Thu Aug 13 07:58:33 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 04:58:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: csv.DictWriter.write_header()
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <68b9136d-fa0b-42dc-addf-02d338da34cd@z4g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 13, 1:15?pm, Alan G Isaac  wrote:
> > On Aug 13, 6:45 am, Alan G Isaac  wrote:
> >> Given a csv.DictWriter instance `dw`
> >> I think it would be nice to be able to
> >> say dw.write_header()
> >> instead of
> >> dw.writer.writerow(dw.fieldnames)
>
> >> Good idea?
>
> On 8/12/2009 10:24 PM John Machin apparently wrote:
>
> > Yes, it's a brilliant idea. All you have to do is insert the following
> > lines in your code after importing csv:
>
> > csv.DictWriter.write_header = (
> > ? ? lambda dw: dw.writer.writerow(dw.fieldnames)
> > ? ? )
>
> I do not understand the reason for your silly, sarcastic response.

Duck typing: ask a silly question, get a silly answer.

> I already showed you how to achieve the result,

What result? You said (in effect) "I think it would be nice to be able
to write A instead of B". You didn't show any way of setting things up
so that one could write A instead of B.

I showed one way. Other possibilities are a 2-line patch to the users
own csv.py, and submitting a patch to the dev team. The second is
kludgy, and there could be a wait until e.g. 2.7 before the third
happens. So back to the first way; everybody should have a utility
module that they import to do little fixes like that ... here is a
slightly more robust version:

import csv
try:
    csv.DictWriter.write_header
except AttributeError:
    csv.DictWriter.write_header = (
        lambda dw: dw.writer.writerow(dw.fieldnames)
        )

> so obviously
> I am not just asking for my own personal gain.

???

> I take it you do not realize that many users do not see
> a simple way to get this often needed functionality.

No, I don't. How did you come to that realisation? AFAICT they don't
ask in this forum or on StackOverflow.

> (For example, see the gymnatics suggested by Shai Vaingast
> in his otherwise excellent and useful book.)

I can imagine that one might (without reading the source) make do with
the published APIs:

dw = csv.DictWriter(open(...), my_field_names
dw.writerow(dict((fn, fn) for fn in my_field_names))

> And indeed,
> there is no reason to expect them to.

Indeed not, as for somebody who otherwise sees utility in the
DictWriter class not having a writer_headers method is a glaring
deficiency.

Note that there is a difference between "expecting C to do X" and
"expecting C to be able to do X". I really hope you don't mean that
people should not be encouraged to be able to write a trivial class
like csv.DictWriter and add trivial functionality themselves ... or to
be able to just write the required functionality inline:

wtr = csv.writer(open(...), ...)
wtr.writerow(my_field_names)
for adict in source_of_dicts():
    wtr.writerow(adict[fn] for fn in my_field_names)

or even:

for obj in source_of_objects():
    wtr.writerow(getattr(obj, fn) for fn in my_field_names)

> So my question was, would this improve the class from
> a usability perspective?

Of course.

> ?Do you have a useful response?

See above. Also, the csv module appears to be in two minds about
underscores in attribute names (field_size_limit, skipinitialspace,
writerow, writerows) -- it may cause less confusion if it were called
writeheader (consistent with writerow).


From ebonak at hotmail.com  Thu Aug 13 08:29:48 2009
From: ebonak at hotmail.com (Esmail)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 08:29:48 -0400
Subject: best practice for documenting a project? pydoc?
In-Reply-To: <4A83B48B.1080307@sequans.com>
References: 			
	<4A83B48B.1080307@sequans.com>
Message-ID: 

Hello Jean-Michel,

Thanks for your post. Based on it, and the ones received so
far I will give epydoc a closer look. I don't need something
superfancy (at least at the moment), just something that helps
me document my code more in an organized way and helps me
sift through the various classes/methods more easily once I
come back to the project after some lengthy interruptions.

Best,

Esmail

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> 
>
> I've never used Happydoc. I am using Epydoc, which is very efficient. 
> Sphinx is very good as well, but its scope is much larger than 
> documenting python code and will not provide  the "click and run"  
> effect of epydoc,  for which you don't have to write any additional 
> documentation. Epydoc supports restructured text, so you'll be able to 
> switch to Sphinx later on without additional work.
> But if I remember well, your documentation is for personal use, so I 
> guess you'll stick with epydoc.



From drobinow at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 08:44:12 2009
From: drobinow at gmail.com (David Robinow)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 08:44:12 -0400
Subject: httplib incredibly slow :-(
In-Reply-To: <4A83BEC5.40101@simplistix.co.uk>
References: <4A81D3CB.7080209@simplistix.co.uk>
	
	<4A82EFDC.70502@simplistix.co.uk>
	<4eb0089f0908121753o5ecf141dj304b21c3df0d3d6b@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A83BEC5.40101@simplistix.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4eb0089f0908130544t72affa8ep7aa364806a94f9bb@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 3:20 AM, Chris Withers wrote:
> David Robinow wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Chris Withers
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> David Stanek wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Also on the same box where you run this script
>>>> can you test with curl or wget?
>>>
>>> It's a Windows box, so no :-(
>>
>> Why not?
>>
>> http://users.ugent.be/~bpuype/wget/
>> http://curl.haxx.se/download.html
>
> Fair point, but I don't see what this will achieve...
>
> I've already established that the file downloads in seconds with [something
> else], so I'd like to understand why python isn't doing the same and fix the
> problem...
 My post was simply to correct the implication that curl and wget can
not be used on Windows. It's up to you whether you want to use one or
the other.
 I'm not the OP, and this is not my area of expertise, but ...
  You've got two data points. You've jumped to the conclusion that
there's something wrong with Python or your code. You're probably
right. However, if you try wget, for example, and it's as slow as your
code, you cqn look elsewhere.  If, on the other hand, wget is as fast
as IE, you'll have more proof that your code is the problem.
 Then, since wget is open source you can look at the source code and
see what wget is doing right that you (or httplib) is doing wrong.


From catalinfest at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 08:55:56 2009
From: catalinfest at gmail.com (catalinfest at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 05:55:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: PIL and Python
Message-ID: 

Hello !
I want use python to change the "note" from .jpeg files .
What is the functions on PIL how make this ?
Thank you !


From invalid at invalid  Thu Aug 13 09:24:07 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 08:24:07 -0500
Subject: How to launch a function at regular time intervals ?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-13, Dave Angel  wrote:

> I'm assuming you want to call it every time_interval seconds, on 
> average, with a little jitter allowed on each call, but keeping correct 
> long term.  In other words, if one call is a little late, you want the 
> next one to still happen as close to on-time as possible.
>
> The general outline is something like (untested):
>
> times_called = 0           #number of times function has been called
> start_time = now
> while True:
>      elapsed = now - start_time
>      int_elapsed = int(elapsed/time_interval)
>      for times_called in range(times_called, int_elapsed):
>                     call_the_function()
>      sleep(time_interval/10)           #this might give us 10% jitter, which is usually fine

I don't understand the reasoning behind the above loop --
specifically the sleeping of smaller intervals than needed.

Why not something like this:

    interval = 5.0  # interval in seconds
    next = time.time()

    while True:
        now = time.time()
        if now < next:      
            time.sleep(now-next)
        print "call_the_function()"
        next += interval

That will be accurate over the long term with minimal jitter.

      



From squishywaffle at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 09:31:25 2009
From: squishywaffle at gmail.com (Greg Taylor)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 06:31:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Networked Broadcast Messaging
References: <37ea826b-708d-48f4-a64a-42f58fec5325@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <859b8238-a730-4699-a94f-618f7311f58f@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 11, 9:18?pm, David Bolen  wrote:
>
> If you want better guarantees, you might look into a distributed
> message bus like Spread (http://www.spread.org/) or perhaps a
> messaging protocol like XMPP (http://xmpp.org/) through its PubSub
> extension. ?Both have Python interfaces, though I have no personal
> experience with either. ?But perhaps that will also give you some
> terms or starting points for searching for other options.

This is also very helpful. In particular Spread, looks very
attractive.

Thanks for the tip,

Greg


From solipsis at pitrou.net  Thu Aug 13 09:32:29 2009
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 13:32:29 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: what is it,
	that I don't understand about python and lazy evaluation?
References: <46ae62fe0908130232x22241399pdf7a845d9d142962@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

Erik Bernoth  googlemail.com> writes:
> 
> Isn't it strange, that this code runs (in a lazy language) for eternity?

Python is a not a lazy language.
`and` and `or` are particular, they are language constructs (*), not operators,
that's why they can decide whether or not to evaluate their second term. It's a
feature, but this feature is not general to Python.

(*) by this I mean they have similar status as, for example, `if` and `else`




From ebonak at hotmail.com  Thu Aug 13 09:43:12 2009
From: ebonak at hotmail.com (Esmail)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:43:12 -0400
Subject: Plotting Quadratic Functions, pygame
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Hello Senad,

You might find this style guide useful too in your toolbox of
Python skills & tricks.

   http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/

This is a great and helpful group of people here, we are lucky to
have access to groups like this.

Best,

Esmail



From rurpy at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 13 10:05:18 2009
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 07:05:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	
	<7f7c3e90-6026-411f-8b4a-829798819128@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
	<3fdfb992-058b-4017-b1b3-db3a9542b62e@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3d808272-6e56-4cf1-90df-8e5201df02df@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On 08/12/2009 12:27 PM, Raymond Hettinger wrote:
> On Aug 12, 3:32 am, Paul Boddie  wrote:
>> Maybe the problem is that although everyone welcomes contributions and
>> changes (or says that they do), the mechanisms remain largely beyond
>> criticism.
>
> FWIW, I support the idea the regular docs incorporating links to
> freely editable wiki pages.  That will at least make it easier for
> people to make changes or add notes.
>
> That being said, I would like to add a few thoughts about the
> current process.   ISTM that important corrections (when the
> docs are clearly in error) tend to get made right away.  What
> is more interesting are the doc requests that get rejected
> and why:

[...snip interesting categorization of "bad" doc enhancement
suggestions...]

> In short, most doc requests that get rejected are requests that didn't
> actually improve the documentation.
>
> I do support links from the regular docs to an external wiki but the
> main docs should continue to go through the regular process using the
> tracker.

What is the purpose of such a wiki?

1. To provide hopefully useful adjunct information for each
doc page?

2. To provide a source of input for improving the next version
of the docs?

In general I have a low opinion of wikis.  Nearly all the ones
I've seen are trash heaps of out-dated and wrong information,
atrocious writing, and comments that look like the middle of
some arcane usenet thread.  They lack organization making it
very difficult to find the needles of good information in the
haystack of junk.  The only one that seems to work is Wikipedia
and it "works" because it has a very heavy-weight process
controlling contributions.  (And even then, my biggest complaint
with Wikipedia is the poor writing quality in a lot of articles.)

I'm not trying to be negative, only pointing out that to serve
either of the goals I asked about above, a wiki will probably
require a considerable management effort that should be faced
up front.  To simply set up a wiki and "wait for it to
self-organize" (as I here read once) is a pipe-dream.

How will it be managed?  Anything written stays?  If not what
standards are used to remove junk entries?  Wrong entries?
Questionable entries?  Who will do this?  Will they act based
on their own judgment or some documented formal standards?
What happens to comments when a new doc version is released?
What happens when entries become obsolete?  What happens when
comments are disputed?

If the goal is (2) what kind of wiki contributions are being
solicited ("I don't understand what this sentence means"? a
complete rewrite of a section?) and how is that communicated?
Who will take a long string of wiki comments constituting a
discussion and condense them into something that can be
submitted as a doc patch?  (This I suspect is where the
work is, where someone with good writing skills is needed.)
Will this process be sufficient to raise the quality of the
docs significantly, or are other steps also needed such as
an attitude shift in what the core committers consider
acceptable?

If the goal is (1) above, it could potentially have a
deleterious effect on the docs in that it will be easier to
respond to requests to expand some description with, "there's
no need since that is covered in (or belongs in) the wiki
comments".

All the above not withstanding, I too think a wiki is worth
trying.  But without doing a lot more than just "setting up
a wiki", I sadly believe even a python.org supported wiki
is doomed to failure.


From ifl2009 at shu.edu  Thu Aug 13 10:16:45 2009
From: ifl2009 at shu.edu (IFL 2009)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 10:16:45 -0400
Subject: IFL 2009: Final Call for Papers and Participation
Message-ID: 

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

From paul at boddie.org.uk  Thu Aug 13 10:46:15 2009
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 07:46:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	
	<7f7c3e90-6026-411f-8b4a-829798819128@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
	<3fdfb992-058b-4017-b1b3-db3a9542b62e@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com> 
	<3d808272-6e56-4cf1-90df-8e5201df02df@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <13be5a11-612b-4fc5-a220-cc9aba2e4f8c@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On 13 Aug, 16:05, ru... at yahoo.com wrote:
>
> All the above not withstanding, I too think a wiki is worth
> trying. ?But without doing a lot more than just "setting up
> a wiki", I sadly believe even a python.org supported wiki
> is doomed to failure.

The ones on python.org seem to function reasonably well. I accept that
they could be more aggressively edited, but this isn't done because
there's a compromise between letting people contribute and keeping
things moderately coherent, with the former being favoured. For other
purposes, it would be quite acceptable to favour editorial control.

I won't argue that providing infrastructure solves a problem - that's
precisely the kind of thing I was criticising when I noted that some
people will readily criticise the choice of tools to do a job instead
of focusing on the job that has to be done - and you need people who
are reasonably competent editors, but Wiki solutions remove a lot of
technical barriers. I'm not arguing for the flavour of Wiki which
implies unfettered, anonymous access from everyone on the Internet,
either: the kind of Wiki that detractors portray all Wiki solutions as
being in order to further their super-special "it has to fit like a
glove or it's totally unusable" software agenda. It's quite possible
to have people with somewhat more privileges than others in order to
keep the peace, and they don't all need to have an entrenched
editorial interest: on the current python.org Wiki sites, most of the
administrators don't have an active interest in most of the content,
but they are able to exercise control when it's clear that some
contributors aren't particularly interested in actually improving the
content.

As well as having an active community effort around the existing
python.org Wiki sites, there are also people who are interested in
improving these offerings. What worries me is that despite such
activity and such interest, many people will continue to lament the
lack of vitality (or whatever other metric) of the general python.org
offering, whilst retaining a blind spot for the obvious contribution
that the Wikis can make to such improvement efforts. I encourage
people to use wiki.python.org a lot more, should they be looking to
improve the wealth of information provided by the community.

Paul


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Thu Aug 13 10:47:56 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 07:47:56 -0700
Subject: what is it,
	that I don't understand about python and lazy evaluation?
In-Reply-To: <46ae62fe0908130232x22241399pdf7a845d9d142962@mail.gmail.com>
References: <46ae62fe0908130232x22241399pdf7a845d9d142962@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A84279C.2030504@stoneleaf.us>

Erik Bernoth wrote:
> Hi List,
> 
> look at the following code:
> 
> def evens():
>     # iterator returning even numbers
>     i = 0
>     while True:
>         yield i
>         i += 2
> 
> # now get all the even numbers up to 15
> L = [n for n in evens() if n < 15]
> 
> Isn't it strange, that this code runs (in a lazy language) for eternity? 
> I would expect python to to spit out (in no time):
>  >> L
> [0, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14]
> 
> after 14 it is not nessesary to evaluate evens() any further.
> 
> I really started to ask myself if python really is lazy, but everything 
> else I wrote in lazy style still worked. Example:
>  >> def test(txt, retval):
> ..    print(txt)
> ..    return retval
> ..
>  >>> test(1, True) or test(2, True)
> 1
> True
>  >>> test(1, True) and test(2, True)
> 1
> 2
> True
> 
> 
> Can anybody explain what happens with evens()?
> 
> best regards
> Erik Bernoth
> 
> PS: The code comes from a list post from 2006. You find it here: 
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2006-November/585783.html
> 

As MRAB pointed out, the issue is not with evens, it's with the list 
comprehension.  The list comprehension doesn't know when to stop, only 
which numbers to include.

~Ethan~


From jschwab at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 11:01:20 2009
From: jschwab at gmail.com (jschwab)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 08:01:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Format Code Repeat Counts?
References: 
Message-ID: 

Thanks all! That was most helpful and informative.

Best,
Josiah


From Samnsparky at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 11:30:55 2009
From: Samnsparky at gmail.com (Sparky)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 08:30:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Tkinter Menu in Frame
Message-ID: <37d94fb6-5afd-4a9e-a45b-49c08776cd82@r18g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

Hello! I am trying to figure out if it is possible to place a Tkinter
menu within a frame. This would be instead of having the menu-bar at
the top of the window.

Thanks,
Sam


From davea at ieee.org  Thu Aug 13 11:34:23 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 11:34:23 -0400
Subject: what is it,	that I don't understand about python and lazy
	evaluation?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <46ae62fe0908130232x22241399pdf7a845d9d142962@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <4A84327F.6040006@ieee.org>



Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Erik Bernoth  googlemail.com> writes:
>   
>> Isn't it strange, that this code runs (in a lazy language) for eternity?
>>     
>
> Python is a not a lazy language.
> `and` and `or` are particular, they are language constructs (*), not operators,
> that's why they can decide whether or not to evaluate their second term. It's a
> feature, but this feature is not general to Python.
>
> (*) by this I mean they have similar status as, for example, `if` and `else`
>
>
>
>   
Agreed.

In fact, I don't know of any aspect of Python which I'd call lazy, 
although the word appears in the docs in a few places.  I've seen, but 
not used, languages which had lazy evaluations.  Simplest example would 
be an infinite precision math package, where the actual precision is not 
actually used till something external to the program got visibility to 
the value.  So the constant PI might really be a generator, which would 
generate enough precision for whatever the value was being used for.  If 
you did a free-form print of PI, the console would never terminate (in 
principle), but in practice, it'd get slower and slower printing out the 
digits till the machine ran out of memory, or the user lost patience.

Python, on the other hand has at least three short-circuit operations, 
in which parts of the expression are defined not to be evaluated at all, 
if other parts meet certain conditions.  These are the 'and' and 'or' 
keywords mentioned above, the chained comparison construct, and the 
conditional expression, added recently.  In each of these, the semantics 
of the language require that those parts not be evaluated.
                val =  (42 < x < function())
                val =  19 if i<12 else function()
                val =  x  or  function()

In each example, the function() may or may not be actually called, 
depending on the other values of the expression.

DaveA



From marduk at letterboxes.org  Thu Aug 13 11:42:42 2009
From: marduk at letterboxes.org (Albert Hopkins)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 11:42:42 -0400
Subject: loops for ffmpeg CLI in python
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <1250178162.16478.0.camel@brotherus.corp.redhat.com>

On Wed, 2009-08-12 at 11:29 +0200, fakhar Gillani wrote:
>  
> Hi,
>  
> I am a begineer in Python. Actually I am encoding video files with
> different bitrates using ffmpeg CLI. I wanted to ask you that how can
> I make loops so that I can vary the bitrates in the CLI of ffmpeg??
>  
> I want to bulid a loop for the command below where i just want to vary
> the -vb parameter i.e. 10M. 
>  
> ffmpeg.exe -i sample.avi -y -f h264 -vb 10M -r 25
> encoded_1000_0-05.h264
>  
> I have tried to make simple loops but it doest work:(
>  
> Can anyone here help me out?

It might help if you specify what you tried and why it didn't work (for
you).

-a




From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Aug 13 11:45:31 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 16:45:31 +0100
Subject: Python configuration question when python scripts are executed
	using Appweb as web server.
In-Reply-To: 
References: 				
	
Message-ID: 

Gabriel Genellina wrote:
[snip]
>> Here are couple of links that discusses setting PYTHONPATH environment
>> variable.
>> http://docs.python.org/using/windows.html
> 
> Ouch, that document should be reworked and updated!
I don't understand this comment, given that the PEP370 Implementation 
section 2nd paragraph quite specifically refers to the use of 
PYTHONPATH, I quote. "The user site directory is added before the system 
site directories but after Python's search paths and PYTHONPATH. This 
setup allows the user to install a different version of a package than 
the system administrator but it prevents the user from accidently 
overwriting a stdlib module. Stdlib modules can still be overwritten 
with PYTHONPATH."  What am I missing?
> 
>> http://www.daimi.au.dk/~chili/PBI/pythonpath.html
> 
[snip]

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From e.kroske at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 11:50:47 2009
From: e.kroske at gmail.com (Evan Kroske)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 11:50:47 -0400
Subject: Delegate attribute requests to object
Message-ID: <1a78d23f0908130850v3f013b37rd1a7bce23041eedc@mail.gmail.com>

I'm trying to use the decorator pattern in a program I'm developing. I want
to create a decorator object that works like the object it's decorating
except for a few functions. However, I'd rather not hard-code all the
identical functionality from the decorated object into the decorator object.
Is there a way I can intercept all the attribute and function requests for
the decorator and delegate them to the decorated object? Here's some example
code:

class Decorator:
>   def __init__():
>    self.decorated = Decorated()
>
>  def newFunction():
>    # Do something
>    pass
>
>  def interceptRequests(request):
>    return self.decorated.request()
>
> class Decorated:
>  def __init__():
>    self.variable = 10
>
>  def oldFunction():
>    # Do something
>    pass


I want to be able to do something like this:

objectA = Decorator()
> objectB = Decorated()
> assert objectA.oldFunction() == objectB.oldFunction() # No error
>

Is it possible (without inheritance)?

--
Evan Kroske
http://welcome2obscurity.blogspot.com/
The code, comments, and challenges of a novice
software developer desperate for attention.
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From davea at ieee.org  Thu Aug 13 11:52:45 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 11:52:45 -0400
Subject: How to launch a function at regular time intervals ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	
	
Message-ID: <4A8436CD.9040308@ieee.org>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2009-08-13, Dave Angel  wrote:
>
>   
>> I'm assuming you want to call it every time_interval seconds, on 
>> average, with a little jitter allowed on each call, but keeping correct 
>> long term.  In other words, if one call is a little late, you want the 
>> next one to still happen as close to on-time as possible.
>>
>> The general outline is something like (untested):
>>
>> times_called = 0           #number of times function has been called
>> start_time = now
>> while True:
>>      elapsed = now - start_time
>>      int_elapsed = int(elapsed/time_interval)
>>      for times_called in range(times_called, int_elapsed):
>>                     call_the_function()
>>      sleep(time_interval/10)           #this might give us 10% jitter, which is usually fine
>>     
>
> I don't understand the reasoning behind the above loop --
> specifically the sleeping of smaller intervals than needed.
>
> Why not something like this:
>
>     interval = 5.0  # interval in seconds
>     next = time.time()
>
>     while True:
>         now = time.time()
>         if now < next:      
>             time.sleep(now-next)
>         print "call_the_function()"
>         next += interval
>
> That will be accurate over the long term with minimal jitter.
>
>       
>
>   
Two reasons I didn't take an approach like that one.

1) I frequently need to do something else while waiting, so I tend to do 
multiple smaller sleeps.  As long as each sleep is at least 100ms, the 
overhead cost is pretty small.
2) If (occasionally) the function takes longer than the specified 
interval time, my approach does catch-up calls so the average remains 
the same.

My loop was only a rough outline, and if neither of these considerations 
applies, yours is much nicer.

DaveA


From gordon at panix.com  Thu Aug 13 12:00:40 2009
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 16:00:40 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Interface to Exchange Calendar via web services
Message-ID: 

I have a python app that needs to look up a person's Exchage Calendar
entries to see if they are currently available.

Does anyone have any code examples for communicating with EWS (Exchange
Web Services)?  I've found some code in Java and CSharp to do this, but
none in python so far.

Thanks!

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 12:07:41 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:07:41 -0700
Subject: Delegate attribute requests to object
In-Reply-To: <1a78d23f0908130850v3f013b37rd1a7bce23041eedc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1a78d23f0908130850v3f013b37rd1a7bce23041eedc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something, but I don't think that's really  
typical decorator behavior? Typically decorators, as I understand them,  
take an instance argument -- so you wouldn't be saying

	def __init__(self):
		self.decorated = Decorated()

you'd be saying

	def __init__(self, decorated):
		self.decorated = decorated

As for the attribute access, I believe you can override __getattr__ to do  
what you want:

> class Decorator:
> [snip]
> def __getattr__(self, request):
> 	return self.decorated.__getattr__(request)

The same thing should work for methods, although you may want to pass  
arguments through as well.

Is there a reason why, for this use, just making Decorator a subclass of  
Decorated (and only overriding the methods you need to be different)  
wouldn't work?

On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 08:50:47 -0700, Evan Kroske  wrote:

> I'm trying to use the decorator pattern in a program I'm developing. I  
> want
> to create a decorator object that works like the object it's decorating
> except for a few functions. However, I'd rather not hard-code all the
> identical functionality from the decorated object into the decorator  
> object.
> Is there a way I can intercept all the attribute and function requests  
> for
> the decorator and delegate them to the decorated object? Here's some  
> example
> code:
>
> class Decorator:
>>   def __init__():
>>    self.decorated = Decorated()
>>
>>  def newFunction():
>>    # Do something
>>    pass
>>
>>  def interceptRequests(request):
>>    return self.decorated.request()
>>
>> class Decorated:
>>  def __init__():
>>    self.variable = 10
>>
>>  def oldFunction():
>>    # Do something
>>    pass
>
>
> I want to be able to do something like this:
>
> objectA = Decorator()
>> objectB = Decorated()
>> assert objectA.oldFunction() == objectB.oldFunction() # No error
>>
>
> Is it possible (without inheritance)?
>
> --
> Evan Kroske
> http://welcome2obscurity.blogspot.com/
> The code, comments, and challenges of a novice
> software developer desperate for attention.



-- 
Rami Chowdhury
"Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --  
Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Thu Aug 13 12:22:23 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:22:23 -0700
Subject: what is it,
	that I don't understand about python and lazy evaluation?
In-Reply-To: <4A84279C.2030504@stoneleaf.us>
References: <46ae62fe0908130232x22241399pdf7a845d9d142962@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A84279C.2030504@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <4A843DBF.6050808@stoneleaf.us>

Ethan Furman wrote:
> Erik Bernoth wrote:
> 
>> Hi List,
>>
>> look at the following code:
>>
>> def evens():
>>     # iterator returning even numbers
>>     i = 0
>>     while True:
>>         yield i
>>         i += 2
>>
>> # now get all the even numbers up to 15
>> L = [n for n in evens() if n < 15]
>>
>> Isn't it strange, that this code runs (in a lazy language) for 
>> eternity? I would expect python to to spit out (in no time):
>>  >> L
>> [0, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14]
>>
>> after 14 it is not nessesary to evaluate evens() any further.
>>
>> I really started to ask myself if python really is lazy, but 
>> everything else I wrote in lazy style still worked. Example:
>>  >> def test(txt, retval):
>> ..    print(txt)
>> ..    return retval
>> ..
>>  >>> test(1, True) or test(2, True)
>> 1
>> True
>>  >>> test(1, True) and test(2, True)
>> 1
>> 2
>> True
>>
>>
>> Can anybody explain what happens with evens()?
>>
>> best regards
>> Erik Bernoth
>>
>> PS: The code comes from a list post from 2006. You find it here: 
>> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2006-November/585783.html
>>
> 
> As MRAB pointed out, the issue is not with evens, it's with the list 
> comprehension.  The list comprehension doesn't know when to stop, only 
> which numbers to include.
> 
> ~Ethan~
> 

Actually, I am mistaken (gasp! shock! ;).  A list comprehension will run 
until the iterator(s) it's based on end, and even() runs forever.

~Ethan~


From davigier at googlemail.com  Thu Aug 13 12:25:58 2009
From: davigier at googlemail.com (David)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:25:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to launch a function at regular time intervals ?
References: 
	
	 
	
Message-ID: <6ebb8c71-870c-4233-a256-a4061a1ab530@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

Thanks all for your answers. As suggested by Dave and Frank, I am
indeed looking for the main program to continue running in the
background (I have several functions I want to launch, each at a
predefined time interval). I like Frank's solution, on the paper it
seems it would do what I am looking for, but I cannot succeed in
having it working. I guess I've been stuck with this problem for too
long and can't succeed in using my brain accurately anymore... ;-)

I defined the class as defined by Frank, and I then inserted the
following code in a While True loop, without any other code (the idea
is just to test Frank's solution before really using it in my
program):

    func = MyFunction()
    func.start()

    func.stop()
    func.join()

However I'm not getting the expected behavior. It's not taking into
account the 30 sec wait, the function is called again and again
without any time interval... Any idea ?

Again, thanks a lot.



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Aug 13 12:33:55 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 13 Aug 2009 16:33:55 GMT
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	
	<65053f02-0e64-4070-90c8-e04394be90ad@d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <029430d5$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 20:23:27 -0700, rurpy wrote:

>> That's no different from *any* major refactoring. The exact same
>> problem exists for code as well as documentation. It's a solved problem
>> for code, and it's a solved problem for documentation.
> 
> Huh?  I don't buy this at all.  Code refactoring doesn't change the
> semantics of the program at all -- it simplifies the code that
> implements behavior without changing behavior.  How does this apply to
> revising documentation?  

My apologies, I mis-wrote. Of course refactoring is inappropriate in this 
context. What I meant was a major redesign where the API may change.

Except of course that documentation changes don't need to be concerned 
with backwards compatibility, except possibly to avoid breaking old links.


[...]
>> Yes it would. Most patches are ignored, because the dev team are
>> overworked, and if they don't see the need for a patch, they won't
>> approve it.
> 
> I'm confused.  If they weren't overworked, then they would approve
> patches they didn't see a need for?  

No.

If they're overworked, they're less likely to spend time investigating 
patches which aren't immediately obvious that they're needed.

And additionally, if the patch doesn't appear to be useful, it's unlikely 
to be approved. Why would it be?


> Or are you saying because they are
> overworked they fail to approve patches that should be approved?

Invariably there will be good patches missed because they haven't been 
noticed.


> I am
> not sure how either supports the argument that the tracker is the best
> method of improving the docs.

These are not arguments in favour of the tracker, these are realistic 
issues that any project of non-trivial size have to deal with. Virtually 
every project (not just software projects either) have to deal with the 
fact that there will be more things to do than resources to do them with.


[...]
>> No, submitting a tracker issue is a necessary but not sufficient step.
>> Without a tracker issue, you're very unlikely to have people agree to
>> replace the existing docs with your docs, although a PEP would probably
>> do it. (A PEP is significantly more effort than raising a tracker
>> issue.)
> 
> Has there ever been a PEP for a doc change?  Are you making a serious
> suggestion?

I don't know if there ever has been, but as far as I know, there are two 
ways to get changes approved to Python: informal approval by somebody 
with check-in privileges, or formal approval on the basis of a PEP. If 
you can't get the first, then the second is an option, albeit unlikely.



>>> As long as every "the docs
>>> sux" complaint is met here with the standard responses that I've
>>> mentioned,
>>
>> But they aren't met with such a so-called "standard response".
> 
> I just looked through the first 70 or so messages in this thread and in
> this case I have agree with you, most of the responses were not what I
> called "standard responses".  There was one guy, a Steven D'Aprano early
> on that trotted out the, "it's free software, fix it if you don't like
> it" line, 

And I stand by it. If you're not helping to solve the problem, then what 
exactly are you doing?

Even if you can't provide a patch, provide a bug report. What 
specifically is wrong with the docs? Be specific. Give examples. Explain 
why it is wrong. State your assumptions, e.g. what audience do you 
represent?

If you do these things, you're helping. If you're just complaining, then 
you're not.


>> We know that there are problems. We've said repeatedly that corrections
>> and patches are welcome. We've repeatedly told you how to communicate
>> your answer to the question of what should be done. None of this is
>> good enough for you. I don't know what else you expect.
> 
> You have been told repeatedly why your insistence that the tracker must
> be the only channel, is wrong.  I don't understand why you can't
> understand that.
> 
> (Generally only those in authority, bosses, parents, police, and the
> like, "tell" others what a situation is and have a right to demand that
> the subject accept it without question. I think you could find a more
> respectful and less authoritarian way of phrasing what you said above
> since you are not in a position of authority over me.)

"You're not my real dad!!!"

In the words of Jesse "The Body" Venture, I'm just telling it like it is. 
The tracker is the only practical way of getting doc changes accepted, 
for those without check-in privileges or the ear of someone with them. Me 
telling you this is no more an expression of authority than me telling 
you that the USA has 50 states.

Of course I could be wrong. My understanding of the facts might be wrong, 
or I may not be in full possession of all the relevant facts. If so, I 
welcome correction.

So please tell me, what other practical ways are there for an 
unprivileged person to get the official Python docs modified?



-- 
Steven


From invalid at invalid  Thu Aug 13 12:40:06 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 11:40:06 -0500
Subject: How to launch a function at regular time intervals ?
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-13, Dave Angel  wrote:
> Grant Edwards wrote:
>> On 2009-08-13, Dave Angel  wrote:

>>> The general outline is something like (untested):
>>>
>>> times_called = 0           #number of times function has been called
>>> start_time = now
>>> while True:
>>>      elapsed = now - start_time
>>>      int_elapsed = int(elapsed/time_interval)
>>>      for times_called in range(times_called, int_elapsed):
>>>                     call_the_function()
>>>      sleep(time_interval/10)           #this might give us 10% jitter, which is usually fine
>>
>> I don't understand the reasoning behind the above loop --
>> specifically the sleeping of smaller intervals than needed.
>>
>> Why not something like this:
>>
>>     interval = 5.0  # interval in seconds
>>     next = time.time()
>>
>>     while True:
>>         now = time.time()
>>         if now < next:      
>>             time.sleep(now-next)
>>         print "call_the_function()"
>>         next += interval
>>
>> That will be accurate over the long term with minimal jitter.
>>   
> Two reasons I didn't take an approach like that one.
>
> 1) I frequently need to do something else while waiting, so I
>    tend to do multiple smaller sleeps.  As long as each sleep
>    is at least 100ms, the overhead cost is pretty small.

I guess I always use a separate thread for cases like that.

> 2) If (occasionally) the function takes longer than the
>    specified interval time, my approach does catch-up calls so
>    the average remains the same.

I'm still confused -- doesn't mine do that as well?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Are you the
                                  at               self-frying president?
                               visi.com            


From tim.arnold at sas.com  Thu Aug 13 12:57:17 2009
From: tim.arnold at sas.com (Tim Arnold)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 12:57:17 -0400
Subject: coding for multiple versions of python
Message-ID: 

Hi,
I've got a python based system that has to run on hp unix and red hat linux. 
The Python version on the HP is 2.4 and the version on the Linux box is 2.6. 
There's nothing I can do about that.

I think that means I must have two different libraries since the pyc files 
are not cross-version compatible. No problem for the libs like PIL or lxml. 
But for the part of the system I actually code every day, I'd rather not do 
dual maintenance, having two copies of my code for each platform/version.

I'm guessing I need to configure cvs to copy files to both locations 
whenever I commit. Does that sound right? Is there a better way I'm not 
thinking of?

thanks,
--Tim




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Aug 13 12:58:52 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 13 Aug 2009 09:58:52 -0700
Subject: Database query execution times in Python?
References: 
Message-ID: 

In article ,
pwnedd   wrote:
>
>I've been writing some code using libraries based on the Python Database API
>2.0 (MySQLdb & pg), and so far things are working really well. There is one
>thing that I have not been able to figure out how to do, however: 
>
>Retrieve the time is took a given query to execute.

Look up EXPLAIN
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"...string iteration isn't about treating strings as sequences of strings, 
it's about treating strings as sequences of characters.  The fact that
characters are also strings is the reason we have problems, but characters 
are strings for other good reasons."  --Aahz


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Aug 13 13:04:54 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 13 Aug 2009 10:04:54 -0700
Subject: httplib incredibly slow :-(
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
Chris Withers   wrote:
>Aahz wrote:
>> In article ,
>> Chris Withers   wrote:
>>>
>>> Does anyone know of an alternative library for creating http requests 
>>> and getting their responses that's faster but hopefully has a similar 
>>> interface?
>> 
>> PyCurl
>
>This seems to be a wrapper around libcurl.
>Does it work on Windows?

Yes.

>If so, where can I find some decent examples?
>(the ones listed on the pycurl website are not what I'd call decent :-S)

Sorry, I mostly have been working on our Mac port, so I'm not sure what's
needed to make this work on Windows.  Did you try downloading the PyCurl
binary?  Maybe it statically links libcurl on Windows.

What do you need to know for a decent example?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"...string iteration isn't about treating strings as sequences of strings, 
it's about treating strings as sequences of characters.  The fact that
characters are also strings is the reason we have problems, but characters 
are strings for other good reasons."  --Aahz


From rays at blue-cove.com  Thu Aug 13 13:13:54 2009
From: rays at blue-cove.com (RJ)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 10:13:54 -0700
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
In-Reply-To: <029430d5$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	
	<65053f02-0e64-4070-90c8-e04394be90ad@d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<029430d5$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20090813100638.04a00478@blue-cove.com>

A basic question in this thread is: Who will host the 
doc-wiki/whatever and how will it be linked to?
If not hosted at python.org it can still be linked to from their 
docs, if allowed, possibly with 3rd level domain and re-direct.
I host a number of commercial servers but I don't expect Guido to 
bless them with said links.
If hosted at python.org it will require resources from the existing admins.
If elsewhere then trusted admins and organization.
If not linked to from python.org then it may well expire from lack of 
interest, as other seemingly nice attempts did.

Ray Schumacher





From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Aug 13 13:16:21 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 18:16:21 +0100
Subject: How to launch a function at regular time intervals ?
In-Reply-To: <6ebb8c71-870c-4233-a256-a4061a1ab530@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: 		
	
	<6ebb8c71-870c-4233-a256-a4061a1ab530@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A844A65.7080906@mrabarnett.plus.com>

David wrote:
> Thanks all for your answers. As suggested by Dave and Frank, I am
> indeed looking for the main program to continue running in the
> background (I have several functions I want to launch, each at a
> predefined time interval). I like Frank's solution, on the paper it
> seems it would do what I am looking for, but I cannot succeed in
> having it working. I guess I've been stuck with this problem for too
> long and can't succeed in using my brain accurately anymore... ;-)
> 
> I defined the class as defined by Frank, and I then inserted the
> following code in a While True loop, without any other code (the idea
> is just to test Frank's solution before really using it in my
> program):
> 
>     func = MyFunction()
>     func.start()
> 
>     func.stop()
>     func.join()
> 
> However I'm not getting the expected behavior. It's not taking into
> account the 30 sec wait, the function is called again and again
> without any time interval... Any idea ?
> 
> Again, thanks a lot.
> 
What exactly do you mean by "I then inserted the following code in a
While True loop"? Do you mean you put all four lines in it? If yes,
then you're repeatedly starting then stopping the function.


From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 13:18:05 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 10:18:05 -0700
Subject: Delegate attribute requests to object
In-Reply-To: <1a78d23f0908131013x25feee2fwe6b907045e87b6f5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1a78d23f0908130850v3f013b37rd1a7bce23041eedc@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<1a78d23f0908131013x25feee2fwe6b907045e87b6f5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

More information at  
http://www.python.org/doc/2.5.2/ref/attribute-access.html if you need it  
:-)

On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 10:13:47 -0700, Evan Kroske  wrote:

> I don't want to inherit from the classes I'm decorating because they  
> have a
> common superclass. I can make a generic decorator that I can use on all  
> its
> sibling classes. I'll try your getattr method to see if it works.
>
> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Rami Chowdhury
> wrote:
>
>> Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something, but I don't think that's really
>> typical decorator behavior? Typically decorators, as I understand them,  
>> take
>> an instance argument -- so you wouldn't be saying
>>
>>        def __init__(self):
>>                self.decorated = Decorated()
>>
>> you'd be saying
>>
>>        def __init__(self, decorated):
>>                self.decorated = decorated
>>
>> As for the attribute access, I believe you can override __getattr__ to  
>> do
>> what you want:
>>
>>  class Decorator:
>>> [snip]
>>> def __getattr__(self, request):
>>>        return self.decorated.__getattr__(request)
>>>
>>
>> The same thing should work for methods, although you may want to pass
>> arguments through as well.
>>
>> Is there a reason why, for this use, just making Decorator a subclass of
>> Decorated (and only overriding the methods you need to be different)
>> wouldn't work?
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 08:50:47 -0700, Evan Kroske 
>> wrote:
>>
>>  I'm trying to use the decorator pattern in a program I'm developing. I
>>> want
>>> to create a decorator object that works like the object it's decorating
>>> except for a few functions. However, I'd rather not hard-code all the
>>> identical functionality from the decorated object into the decorator
>>> object.
>>> Is there a way I can intercept all the attribute and function requests  
>>> for
>>> the decorator and delegate them to the decorated object? Here's some
>>> example
>>> code:
>>>
>>> class Decorator:
>>>
>>>>  def __init__():
>>>>   self.decorated = Decorated()
>>>>
>>>>  def newFunction():
>>>>   # Do something
>>>>   pass
>>>>
>>>>  def interceptRequests(request):
>>>>   return self.decorated.request()
>>>>
>>>> class Decorated:
>>>>  def __init__():
>>>>   self.variable = 10
>>>>
>>>>  def oldFunction():
>>>>   # Do something
>>>>   pass
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I want to be able to do something like this:
>>>
>>> objectA = Decorator()
>>>
>>>> objectB = Decorated()
>>>> assert objectA.oldFunction() == objectB.oldFunction() # No error
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Is it possible (without inheritance)?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Evan Kroske
>>> http://welcome2obscurity.blogspot.com/
>>> The code, comments, and challenges of a novice
>>> software developer desperate for attention.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Rami Chowdhury
>> "Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --
>> Hanlon's Razor
>> 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)
>>
>
>
>



-- 
Rami Chowdhury
"Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --  
Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)


From webcokies at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 13 13:52:46 2009
From: webcokies at yahoo.com (Joni Lee)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 10:52:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Help newbie with how to call a source command
Message-ID: <901009.79843.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi all,
?
I'm landing here because I need some help that I couldn't get through it.
Question 1. 
I want to call a source command from python script. It will source some?variables enviroment for further commands. I tried the following which did not work
os.sys('source '+source_text)
call(['source',source_text], shell=True)
commands.getoutput('source '+source_text)
?
Anyone have experiences with this? Because I'm very new to this world so a details reply is really appreciated!!! thank you very much
?
Question 2.
I call a shell command from python, this time it runs a script which runs some ruby scripts. And the error returns: "ruby: command not found"
?
Thank you again


      
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From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Aug 13 14:12:07 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 13 Aug 2009 11:12:07 -0700
Subject: How to address a global variable in a function
References: <82c2f2e7-ed3e-482b-9318-d5539a2a9da8@y10g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

In article <82c2f2e7-ed3e-482b-9318-d5539a2a9da8 at y10g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
n179911   wrote:
>
>I have a global variable
>
>// line 8
>tx  = 0
>
>and then I have this function (start in line 12):
>def handleTranslate(result):
>	print line
>	txStr, tyStr = result.group(1), result.group(2)
>	print txStr, tyStr
>
>	tx += int(txStr)
>	ty += int(tyStr)
>
>	return

BTW, you probably want to learn why global names are a bad idea, I don't
have time to explain that here (or point you at references).  Going
through some of the online tutorials should address this.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"...string iteration isn't about treating strings as sequences of strings, 
it's about treating strings as sequences of characters.  The fact that
characters are also strings is the reason we have problems, but characters 
are strings for other good reasons."  --Aahz


From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 14:29:04 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 11:29:04 -0700
Subject: Delegate attribute requests to object
In-Reply-To: <1a78d23f0908131100p75520be4oe7572aae00bf2f13@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1a78d23f0908130850v3f013b37rd1a7bce23041eedc@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<1a78d23f0908131013x25feee2fwe6b907045e87b6f5@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<1a78d23f0908131100p75520be4oe7572aae00bf2f13@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

Oops, my apologies, it's the __getattribute__ method you want to call on  
self.decorated (because __getattr__ won't be there unless you define it  
specifically)

So it should go:

def __getattr__(self, request):
	return self.decorated.__getattribute__(request)



On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 11:00:28 -0700, Evan Kroske  wrote:

> Unfortunately, __getattr__ didn't work. When I try to use your code
>
> class Decorator:
>> [snip]
>> def __getattr__(self, request):
>>        return self.decorated.__getattr__(request)
>>
>
> I get this error:
>
> AttributeError: 'Decorated' object has no attribute '__getattr__'
>>
>
> Is that a private method, or am I simply using it wrong? Thanks for the
> help.
>
> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 1:18 PM, Rami Chowdhury  
> wrote:
>
>> More information at
>> http://www.python.org/doc/2.5.2/ref/attribute-access.html if you need it
>> :-)
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 10:13:47 -0700, Evan Kroske 
>> wrote:
>>
>>  I don't want to inherit from the classes I'm decorating because they  
>> have
>>> a
>>> common superclass. I can make a generic decorator that I can use on all
>>> its
>>> sibling classes. I'll try your getattr method to see if it works.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Rami Chowdhury
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>  Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something, but I don't think that's  
>>> really
>>>> typical decorator behavior? Typically decorators, as I understand  
>>>> them,
>>>> take
>>>> an instance argument -- so you wouldn't be saying
>>>>
>>>>       def __init__(self):
>>>>               self.decorated = Decorated()
>>>>
>>>> you'd be saying
>>>>
>>>>       def __init__(self, decorated):
>>>>               self.decorated = decorated
>>>>
>>>> As for the attribute access, I believe you can override __getattr__  
>>>> to do
>>>> what you want:
>>>>
>>>>  class Decorator:
>>>>
>>>>> [snip]
>>>>> def __getattr__(self, request):
>>>>>       return self.decorated.__getattr__(request)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> The same thing should work for methods, although you may want to pass
>>>> arguments through as well.
>>>>
>>>> Is there a reason why, for this use, just making Decorator a subclass  
>>>> of
>>>> Decorated (and only overriding the methods you need to be different)
>>>> wouldn't work?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 08:50:47 -0700, Evan Kroske 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  I'm trying to use the decorator pattern in a program I'm developing.  
>>>> I
>>>>
>>>>> want
>>>>> to create a decorator object that works like the object it's  
>>>>> decorating
>>>>> except for a few functions. However, I'd rather not hard-code all the
>>>>> identical functionality from the decorated object into the decorator
>>>>> object.
>>>>> Is there a way I can intercept all the attribute and function  
>>>>> requests
>>>>> for
>>>>> the decorator and delegate them to the decorated object? Here's some
>>>>> example
>>>>> code:
>>>>>
>>>>> class Decorator:
>>>>>
>>>>>   def __init__():
>>>>>>  self.decorated = Decorated()
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  def newFunction():
>>>>>>  # Do something
>>>>>>  pass
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  def interceptRequests(request):
>>>>>>  return self.decorated.request()
>>>>>>
>>>>>> class Decorated:
>>>>>>  def __init__():
>>>>>>  self.variable = 10
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  def oldFunction():
>>>>>>  # Do something
>>>>>>  pass
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I want to be able to do something like this:
>>>>>
>>>>> objectA = Decorator()
>>>>>
>>>>>  objectB = Decorated()
>>>>>> assert objectA.oldFunction() == objectB.oldFunction() # No error
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Is it possible (without inheritance)?
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Evan Kroske
>>>>> http://welcome2obscurity.blogspot.com/
>>>>> The code, comments, and challenges of a novice
>>>>> software developer desperate for attention.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Rami Chowdhury
>>>> "Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity"  
>>>> --
>>>> Hanlon's Razor
>>>> 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Rami Chowdhury
>> "Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --
>> Hanlon's Razor
>> 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)
>>
>
>
>



-- 
Rami Chowdhury
"Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --  
Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)


From jura.grozni at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 14:56:49 2009
From: jura.grozni at gmail.com (azrael)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 11:56:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: i Don't get why it makes trouble
Message-ID: <5ddbbf79-a448-4cb0-96e8-427ab8160a78@q23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

>>> j
[u'Tata', u'Oriovac', u'PrimorskoGoranska', u'hrvatska', u'Kuna']
>>> len(j)
5
>>> h = """SELECT distinct u.id_ulica, o.id_opcina, z.id_zupanija, d.id_drzava, v.id_valuta FROM   ulica as u, opcina as o, zupanija as z, drzava as d, valuta as v  WHERE  u.naziv = '%s' AND o.naziv = '%s' AND z.naziv = '%s' AND d.naziv = '%s' AND v.naziv = '%s'""" % (j)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
TypeError: not enough arguments for format string


I want to format the string. the list has five elements and the string
has five placeholder but it wont format the string


From lkcl at lkcl.net  Thu Aug 13 15:01:41 2009
From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 19:01:41 +0000
Subject: [ANN] pyjamas 0.6pre3 released
Message-ID: 

much as we'd very much like to declare a 0.6 stable release, really
really soon and move forward, the ChangeLog just keeps growing (133
and counting) with the bugfixes, testing and contributions since
0.5p1.

pyjamas is a port of GWT to python, and includes a
python-to-javascript compiler and a widget UI toolkit that is similar
to pyqt4, pygtk2 etc.  applications can either be run as javascript
(in a web browser) or on the desktop (using pyjamas-desktop) as
python.  conceptually therefore, pyjamas is similar to adobe AIR -
except that it's python, not ActionScript, and it's entirely free
software.  hurrah!

key changes:

* the python-to-javascript has been significantly reworked, and now
includes a --strict option which adds "python strict" features at the
expense of speed.  to disable these, and obtain speed instead, use
"-O"

* pyjamas-desktop has been merged into the pyjamas distribution, which
includes support for one stable browser engine (XULrunner, the same
engine behind firefox); pywebkitgtk (the engine behind safari and the
iphone) and MSHTML (IE's engine).  pywebkitgtk is useable (but
unfriendly - no DOM exception handling); MSHTML is even less friendly
- COM gets in the way at present, and eats even python exceptions).

there's a lot more that could be said, but you've probably noticed all
the other prerelease notices so 'nuff said, other than: thank you to
the people who've been helping and contributing with testing, patches
and more.

downloads and more information:

http://pypi.python.org/pypi/Pyjamas
http://sf.net/projects/pyjamas
http://code.google.com/p/pyjamas
http://pyjs.org


From pfeldman at verizon.net  Thu Aug 13 15:05:26 2009
From: pfeldman at verizon.net (Dr. Phillip M. Feldman)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 12:05:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: trouble with reload
Message-ID: <24956946.post@talk.nabble.com>


According to the Python documentation, 'reload' reloads a previously imported
module (so that changes made via an external editor will be effective). 
But, when I try to use this command, I get the following error message:

TypeError: reload() argument must be module

Any suggestions will be appreciated.
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/trouble-with-reload-tp24956946p24956946.html
Sent from the Python - python-list mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Thu Aug 13 15:06:47 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 21:06:47 +0200
Subject: i Don't get why it makes trouble
In-Reply-To: <5ddbbf79-a448-4cb0-96e8-427ab8160a78@q23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <5ddbbf79-a448-4cb0-96e8-427ab8160a78@q23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

13-08-2009 azrael  wrote:

>>>> j
> [u'Tata', u'Oriovac', u'PrimorskoGoranska', u'hrvatska', u'Kuna']
>>>> len(j)
> 5
>>>> h = """SELECT distinct u.id_ulica, o.id_opcina, z.id_zupanija,  
>>>> d.id_drzava, v.id_valuta FROM   ulica as u, opcina as o, zupanija as  
>>>> z, drzava as d, valuta as v  WHERE  u.naziv = '%s' AND o.naziv = '%s'  
>>>> AND z.naziv = '%s' AND d.naziv = '%s' AND v.naziv = '%s'""" % (j)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "", line 1, in 
> TypeError: not enough arguments for format string
>
>
> I want to format the string. the list has five elements and the string
> has five placeholder but it wont format the string

j must be a tuple -- so either define it as

     (u'Tata', u'Oriovac', u'PrimorskoGoranska', u'hrvatska', u'Kuna')

or when using it, wrap it with tuple() constructor:

     h = """...........""" % tuple(j)

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 15:07:36 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 12:07:36 -0700
Subject: trouble with reload
In-Reply-To: <24956946.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <24956946.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: 

Could you please clarify how you're calling it? E.g.
	reload('foo')
or
	reload(foo)

?

On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 12:05:26 -0700, Dr. Phillip M. Feldman  
 wrote:

> According to the Python documentation, 'reload' reloads a previously  
> imported
> module (so that changes made via an external editor will be effective).
> But, when I try to use this command, I get the following error message:
>
> TypeError: reload() argument must be module
>
> Any suggestions will be appreciated.



-- 
Rami Chowdhury
"Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --  
Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Thu Aug 13 15:12:50 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 21:12:50 +0200
Subject: i Don't get why it makes trouble
In-Reply-To: 
References: <5ddbbf79-a448-4cb0-96e8-427ab8160a78@q23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Me wrote:

> 13-08-2009 azrael  wrote:
>
>>>>> j
>> [u'Tata', u'Oriovac', u'PrimorskoGoranska', u'hrvatska', u'Kuna']
>>>>> len(j)
>> 5
>>>>> h = """SELECT distinct u.id_ulica, o.id_opcina, z.id_zupanija,  
>>>>> d.id_drzava, v.id_valuta FROM   ulica as u, opcina as o, zupanija as  
>>>>> z, drzava as d, valuta as v  WHERE  u.naziv = '%s' AND o.naziv =  
>>>>> '%s' AND z.naziv = '%s' AND d.naziv = '%s' AND v.naziv = '%s'""" %  
>>>>> (j)
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "", line 1, in 
>> TypeError: not enough arguments for format string
>>
>>
>> I want to format the string. the list has five elements and the string
>> has five placeholder but it wont format the string
>
> j must be a tuple -- so either define it as
[snip]

PS. If you use Python 2.6 or newer, better use .format() method
(then you can use also a list):

>>> h = """SELECT distinct u.id_ulica, o.id_opcina, z.id_zupanija, \
... d.id_drzava, v.id_valuta FROM   ulica as u, opcina as o, zupanija as \
... z, drzava as d, valuta as v  WHERE  u.naziv = '{0}' AND o.naziv = \
... '{1}' AND z.naziv = '{2}' AND d.naziv = '{3}' AND v.naziv = '{4}'\
... """.format(*j)


Cheers,
*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From davea at ieee.org  Thu Aug 13 15:17:00 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 15:17:00 -0400
Subject: How to launch a function at regular time intervals ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 			
	
Message-ID: <4A8466AC.6080509@ieee.org>



Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2009-08-13, Dave Angel  wrote:
>   
>> Grant Edwards wrote:
>>     
>>> 
>>>     interval = 5.0  # interval in seconds
>>>     next = time.time()
>>>
>>>     while True:
>>>         now = time.time()
>>>         if now < next:      
>>>             time.sleep(now-next)
>>>         print "call_the_function()"
>>>         next += interval
>>>
>>> That will be accurate over the long term with minimal jitter.
>>>   
>>>       
>> 
>> 2) If (occasionally) the function takes longer than the
>>    specified interval time, my approach does catch-up calls so
>>    the average remains the same.
>>     
>
> I'm still confused -- doesn't mine do that as well?
>
>   
Yep.  I missed it again.  Clearly it does the catchup the next time 
around the while loop.

DaveA


From dullrich at sprynet.com  Thu Aug 13 15:20:13 2009
From: dullrich at sprynet.com (David C Ullrich)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:20:13 -0500
Subject: trouble with reload
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 12:05:26 -0700, Dr. Phillip M. Feldman wrote:

> According to the Python documentation, 'reload' reloads a previously
> imported module (so that changes made via an external editor will be
> effective). But, when I try to use this command, I get the following
> error message:
> 
> TypeError: reload() argument must be module

That would mean that you're trying to reload something
other than a module.

Of course you think you're reloading a module. The problem
is that... oops, since you don't show the code that leads
to this error it's hard to say what the problem is.

> Any suggestions will be appreciated.



From garrickp at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 15:21:13 2009
From: garrickp at gmail.com (Falcolas)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 12:21:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to launch a function at regular time intervals ?
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 12, 3:09?pm, David  wrote:
> Hi all, I'm trying to launch a function at regular time intervals but
> cannot find the way to do it. Here is the code I wrote (time_interval
> is a user defined variable in seconds):
> [snip]
> Has anyone run into a similar problem (and solved it) ?
>
> Thanks for your help

I did - as part of a script where I needed to send load into a system
at a steady rate. I ended up using threading to do the function calls,
since they were not guaranteed to complete before the next interval.

duration_start = time.time()
interval_counter = 0
while time.time() - duration_start < duration:
    for thread_count in xrange(numthreads):
        threading.Thread(target=exec_thread, kwargs={#snip
unimportant#}).start()
    interval_counter += 1
    time.sleep((duration_start + (interval * interval_counter)) -
time.time())

Executing this loop with a simple echo and time print showed that
there was no creep over time, and the deviation between intervals was
around 1/100th of a second.

I'm fairly sure I'm creating some gnarly memory leaks and such by not
joining spent threads, but it's been a non-issue in my usage. Adding a
list to keep track of the threads and join on complete threads would
be fairly trivial to implement.

I think for simpler applications, using threading.Timer to kick off
the function would work just as well.

~G


From jura.grozni at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 15:26:07 2009
From: jura.grozni at gmail.com (azrael)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 12:26:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: i Don't get why it makes trouble
References: <5ddbbf79-a448-4cb0-96e8-427ab8160a78@q23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <189e10f1-771a-4631-a907-56d450b5e493@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On 13 kol, 21:12, "Jan Kaliszewski"  wrote:
> Me wrote:
> > 13-08-2009 azrael  wrote:
>
> >>>>> j
> >> [u'Tata', u'Oriovac', u'PrimorskoGoranska', u'hrvatska', u'Kuna']
> >>>>> len(j)
> >> 5
> >>>>> h = """SELECT distinct u.id_ulica, o.id_opcina, z.id_zupanija, ?
> >>>>> d.id_drzava, v.id_valuta FROM ? ulica as u, opcina as o, zupanija as ?
> >>>>> z, drzava as d, valuta as v ?WHERE ?u.naziv = '%s' AND o.naziv = ?
> >>>>> '%s' AND z.naziv = '%s' AND d.naziv = '%s' AND v.naziv = '%s'""" % ?
> >>>>> (j)
> >> Traceback (most recent call last):
> >> ? File "", line 1, in 
> >> TypeError: not enough arguments for format string
>
> >> I want to format the string. the list has five elements and the string
> >> has five placeholder but it wont format the string
>
> > j must be a tuple -- so either define it as
>
> [snip]
>
> PS. If you use Python 2.6 or newer, better use .format() method
> (then you can use also a list):
>
> >>> h = """SELECT distinct u.id_ulica, o.id_opcina, z.id_zupanija, \
>
> ... d.id_drzava, v.id_valuta FROM ? ulica as u, opcina as o, zupanija as \
> ... z, drzava as d, valuta as v ?WHERE ?u.naziv = '{0}' AND o.naziv = \
> ... '{1}' AND z.naziv = '{2}' AND d.naziv = '{3}' AND v.naziv = '{4}'\
> ... """.format(*j)
>
> Cheers,
> *j
>
> --
> Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 

Thanks Worked fine for me. I was a freakin idiot. I forgot about using
a tuple. damn lists :D

Thanks for the debuginig of my thoughts and actions.

thnx


From davea at ieee.org  Thu Aug 13 15:28:02 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 15:28:02 -0400
Subject: How to launch a function at regular time intervals ?
In-Reply-To: <6ebb8c71-870c-4233-a256-a4061a1ab530@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: 		
	
	<6ebb8c71-870c-4233-a256-a4061a1ab530@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A846942.3020708@ieee.org>

David wrote:
> Thanks all for your answers. As suggested by Dave and Frank, I am
> indeed looking for the main program to continue running in the
> background (I have several functions I want to launch, each at a
> predefined time interval). I like Frank's solution, on the paper it
> seems it would do what I am looking for, but I cannot succeed in
> having it working. I guess I've been stuck with this problem for too
> long and can't succeed in using my brain accurately anymore... ;-)
>
> I defined the class as defined by Frank, and I then inserted the
> following code in a While True loop, without any other code (the idea
> is just to test Frank's solution before really using it in my
> program):
>
>     func = MyFunction()
>     func.start()
>
>     func.stop()
>     func.join()
>
> However I'm not getting the expected behavior. It's not taking into
> account the 30 sec wait, the function is called again and again
> without any time interval... Any idea ?
>
> Again, thanks a lot.
>
>
>   
Why don't you include the code you're actually trying, instead of just 
trying to describe it.  Frank's class didn't call any function, it just 
had a place to do it.  So we really don't know what you're running, nor 
what about it is wrong.

Perhaps a few well placed print statements?

DaveA


From ebonak at hotmail.com  Thu Aug 13 15:28:44 2009
From: ebonak at hotmail.com (Esmail)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 15:28:44 -0400
Subject: get output of du / ls command - currently ugly code ...
Message-ID: 

Hi all,

Essentially all I want to know the size of a directory, and the size
of a zipped tarball so that I can compute/report the compression ratio.

The code I have seems hideous, but it seems to work. Surely there is an
easier,more elegant way to do this?

     dir_size = os.popen('du -sk somename')
     data = dir_size.readlines()
     dir_size = int(data[0].split()[0])
     print 'dir size: ', dir_size

     tar_size = os.popen('ls -s somename.tar.gz')
     data = tar_size.readlines()
     tar_size = int(data[0].split()[0])
     print 'tar size: ', tar_size

Thanks
Esmail



From rebfj at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Aug 13 15:48:18 2009
From: rebfj at yahoo.co.uk (rebfj at yahoo.co.uk)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 12:48:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: get output of du / ls command - currently ugly code ...
References: 
Message-ID: <6d501dbf-bbed-4b38-afc1-f956c9ff3ab6@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 13, 8:28?pm, Esmail  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Essentially all I want to know the size of a directory, and the size
> of a zipped tarball so that I can compute/report the compression ratio.
>
> The code I have seems hideous, but it seems to work. Surely there is an
> easier,more elegant way to do this?
>
> ? ? ?dir_size = os.popen('du -sk somename')
> ? ? ?data = dir_size.readlines()
> ? ? ?dir_size = int(data[0].split()[0])
> ? ? ?print 'dir size: ', dir_size
>
> ? ? ?tar_size = os.popen('ls -s somename.tar.gz')
> ? ? ?data = tar_size.readlines()
> ? ? ?tar_size = int(data[0].split()[0])
> ? ? ?print 'tar size: ', tar_size
>
> Thanks
> Esmail

Try using os.path.getsize(somename.tar.gz)


From davea at ieee.org  Thu Aug 13 15:48:55 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 15:48:55 -0400
Subject: Help newbie with how to call a source command
In-Reply-To: <901009.79843.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <901009.79843.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4A846E27.9090502@ieee.org>

Joni Lee wrote:
> Hi all,
>  
> I'm landing here because I need some help that I couldn't get through it.
> Question 1. 
> I want to call a source command from python script. It will source some variables enviroment for further commands. I tried the following which did not work
> os.sys('source '+source_text)
> call(['source',source_text], shell=True)
> commands.getoutput('source '+source_text)
>  
> Anyone have experiences with this? Because I'm very new to this world so a details reply is really appreciated!!! thank you very much
>  
> Question 2.
> I call a shell command from python, this time it runs a script which runs some ruby scripts. And the error returns: "ruby: command not found"
>  
> Thank you again
>
>
>   

1)  You cannot do "source" from Python.  It's a shell command whose very 
nature is to remember some environment variables for the duration of 
that particular shell. So once it returns to your python program, 
they're lost.

However, if you just need those variables for invocations of the same 
shell, you have a couple of choices.  You can parse the file yourself, 
and set up an environment dictionary, and pass that when you invoke 
subsequent shells.

Or you can build a script on the fly, prepending whatever script you're 
planning to run with that source_text file.

2) In this question, and in general, you need to specify the Python 
version, the OS environment, the particular Python code  you used to 
launch the shell, the contents of the script, and the results you saw.  
Use copy and paste, don't just paraphrase.

And in a case like this one, somebody familiar with the environment 
(Ruby on Unix?) will probably have other questions:  environment 
dictionary passed to the shell, did you get a Ruby startup prompt?  Or 
whatever.

DaveA



From philip at semanchuk.com  Thu Aug 13 16:09:04 2009
From: philip at semanchuk.com (Philip Semanchuk)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 16:09:04 -0400
Subject: i Don't get why it makes trouble
In-Reply-To: <5ddbbf79-a448-4cb0-96e8-427ab8160a78@q23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <5ddbbf79-a448-4cb0-96e8-427ab8160a78@q23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 


On Aug 13, 2009, at 2:56 PM, azrael wrote:

>>>> j
> [u'Tata', u'Oriovac', u'PrimorskoGoranska', u'hrvatska', u'Kuna']
>>>> len(j)
> 5
>>>> h = """SELECT distinct u.id_ulica, o.id_opcina, z.id_zupanija,  
>>>> d.id_drzava, v.id_valuta FROM   ulica as u, opcina as o, zupanija  
>>>> as z, drzava as d, valuta as v  WHERE  u.naziv = '%s' AND o.naziv  
>>>> = '%s' AND z.naziv = '%s' AND d.naziv = '%s' AND v.naziv =  
>>>> '%s'""" % (j)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "", line 1, in 
> TypeError: not enough arguments for format string

Hi azrael,
You already have an answer to your question so I won't address that. I  
want to point out that this is a dangerous way to build SQL statements.

For instance, what happens if someone enters a city name of L'viv?   
Your SQL will break due to mismatched single quotes. This kind of code  
is vulnerable to SQL injection attacks:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQL_injection

Parameterized SQL is safer. Googling for 'parameterized SQL Python'  
should find some examples for you.

Good luck
Philip


From ebonak at hotmail.com  Thu Aug 13 16:13:51 2009
From: ebonak at hotmail.com (Esmail)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 16:13:51 -0400
Subject: get output of du / ls command - currently ugly code ...
In-Reply-To: <6d501dbf-bbed-4b38-afc1-f956c9ff3ab6@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<6d501dbf-bbed-4b38-afc1-f956c9ff3ab6@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A8473FF.7050701@hotmail.com>

rebfj at yahoo.co.uk wrote:
> On Aug 13, 8:28 pm, Esmail  wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Essentially all I want to know the size of a directory, and the size
>> of a zipped tarball so that I can compute/report the compression ratio.
>>

>>      dir_size = os.popen('du -sk somename')
>>      data = dir_size.readlines()
>>      dir_size = int(data[0].split()[0])
>>      print 'dir size: ', dir_size
>>

Hi,

  > Try using os.path.getsize(somename.tar.gz)

Beautiful! .. that takes care of the tarball .. but it doesn't seem to
work for reporting the total size of the directory. Any suggestions how
to do that in a nicer way?

I just looked through os.path.* and there doesn't seem to be a function
to report what "du -sb" would.

Thanks for your help,

Esmail



From marduk at letterboxes.org  Thu Aug 13 16:16:29 2009
From: marduk at letterboxes.org (Albert Hopkins)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 16:16:29 -0400
Subject: get output of du / ls command - currently ugly code ...
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <1250194589.19760.4.camel@brotherus.corp.redhat.com>

On Thu, 2009-08-13 at 15:28 -0400, Esmail wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Essentially all I want to know the size of a directory, and the size
> of a zipped tarball so that I can compute/report the compression ratio.
> 
> The code I have seems hideous, but it seems to work. Surely there is an
> easier,more elegant way to do this?
> 
>      dir_size = os.popen('du -sk somename')
>      data = dir_size.readlines()
>      dir_size = int(data[0].split()[0])
>      print 'dir size: ', dir_size
> 
>      tar_size = os.popen('ls -s somename.tar.gz')
>      data = tar_size.readlines()
>      tar_size = int(data[0].split()[0])
>      print 'tar size: ', tar_size
> 

I don't know about "easier", but a more elegant way is to not use
os.popen() and to use Python's functions os.path.getsize (or os.stat)
and os.walk (or os.path.walk) to achieve this.

In fact if you look at the docstring for os.walk there is an example
that almost does what you're doing with du, but is cross-platform and
not dependent on shelling a process and scraping its stdout.

-a




From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Thu Aug 13 17:05:37 2009
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:05:37 -0400
Subject: i Don't get why it makes trouble
In-Reply-To: 
References: <5ddbbf79-a448-4cb0-96e8-427ab8160a78@q23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 4:09 PM, Philip Semanchuk wrote:

>
> On Aug 13, 2009, at 2:56 PM, azrael wrote:
>
>  j
>>>>>
>>>> [u'Tata', u'Oriovac', u'PrimorskoGoranska', u'hrvatska', u'Kuna']
>>
>>> len(j)
>>>>>
>>>> 5
>>
>>> h = """SELECT distinct u.id_ulica, o.id_opcina, z.id_zupanija,
>>>>> d.id_drzava, v.id_valuta FROM   ulica as u, opcina as o, zupanija as z,
>>>>> drzava as d, valuta as v  WHERE  u.naziv = '%s' AND o.naziv = '%s' AND
>>>>> z.naziv = '%s' AND d.naziv = '%s' AND v.naziv = '%s'""" % (j)
>>>>>
>>>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>  File "", line 1, in 
>> TypeError: not enough arguments for format string
>>
>
> Hi azrael,
> You already have an answer to your question so I won't address that. I want
> to point out that this is a dangerous way to build SQL statements.
>
> For instance, what happens if someone enters a city name of L'viv?  Your
> SQL will break due to mismatched single quotes. This kind of code is
> vulnerable to SQL injection attacks:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQL_injection
>

No explanation of SQL injection is complete without a link to the relevant
XKCD.

http://xkcd.com/327/


>
> Parameterized SQL is safer. Googling for 'parameterized SQL Python' should
> find some examples for you.
>
> Good luck
> Philip
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

From benjamin at python.org  Thu Aug 13 17:12:50 2009
From: benjamin at python.org (Benjamin Peterson)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 16:12:50 -0500
Subject: [RELEASED] Python 3.1.1 Release Candidate
Message-ID: <1afaf6160908131412i3b6f6636wc3fc166db0b9d5ce@mail.gmail.com>

On behalf of the Python development team, I'm pleased to announce the first
release candidate of Python 3.1.1.

This bug fix release fixes many normal bugs and several critical ones including
potential data corruption in the io library.  The final version should be out
within the next week.

Python 3.1 focuses on the stabilization and optimization of the features and
changes that Python 3.0 introduced.  For example, the new I/O system has been
rewritten in C for speed.  File system APIs that use unicode strings now handle
paths with undecodable bytes in them. Other features include an ordered
dictionary implementation, a condensed syntax for nested with statements, and
support for ttk Tile in Tkinter.  For a more extensive list of changes in 3.1,
see http://doc.python.org/3.1/whatsnew/3.1.html or Misc/NEWS in the Python
distribution.

To download Python 3.1.1 visit:

     http://www.python.org/download/releases/3.1/

The 3.1 documentation can be found at:

     http://docs.python.org/3.1

Bugs can always be reported to:

     http://bugs.python.org


Enjoy!

--
Benjamin Peterson
Release Manager
benjamin at python.org
(on behalf of the entire python-dev team and 3.1.1's contributors)


From petermoeller at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 17:26:54 2009
From: petermoeller at gmail.com (PeteDK)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:26:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: need help calculating point between two coordinates.
Message-ID: <2d059a29-933e-4e2c-8730-f1f2688af26c@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

Hi there

I'am working on a route comparison tool for carpools.

The route comparison is based on 'steps' retrieved from google maps
GDirection. These steps vary in length and i use the coordinates at
the beginning of each "step". However, sometimes the distance of these
steps is too long(ex. driving 30-40 km. on the freeway). Therefore i
would like to calculate/find the coordinate located in between two
given coordinates.
Lets say one step starts at:
56.043185,9.922714
and ends at:
56.234287,9.864521

I would then like to calculate the point right in the middle of these
coordinates.

I use the haversine form to calculate the distance between
coordinates, but im not sure whether or not this can be used for the
same purpose.
http://www.mpi.nl/world/persons/private ... versine.py

I apologize if this thread has been posted the wrong place:)

any help is greatly appreciated!

kind regards.

Pete


From ebonak at hotmail.com  Thu Aug 13 17:31:55 2009
From: ebonak at hotmail.com (Esmail)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:31:55 -0400
Subject: Plotting Quadratic Functions, pygame
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Hello Senad,

You might find this style guide useful too in your toolbox of
Python skills & tricks.

   http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/

This is a great and helpful group of people here, we are lucky to
have access to groups like this.

Best,

Esmail



From ebonak at hotmail.com  Thu Aug 13 17:32:34 2009
From: ebonak at hotmail.com (Esmail)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:32:34 -0400
Subject: get output of du / ls command - currently ugly code ...
In-Reply-To: <1250194589.19760.4.camel@brotherus.corp.redhat.com>
References: 
	<1250194589.19760.4.camel@brotherus.corp.redhat.com>
Message-ID: 

Albert Hopkins wrote:
> 
> I don't know about "easier", but a more elegant way is to not use
> os.popen() and to use Python's functions os.path.getsize (or os.stat)
> and os.walk (or os.path.walk) to achieve this.
> 
> In fact if you look at the docstring for os.walk there is an example
> that almost does what you're doing with du, but is cross-platform and
> not dependent on shelling a process and scraping its stdout.

Thanks Albert, I'll take a look,

Esmail



From jura.grozni at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 18:00:19 2009
From: jura.grozni at gmail.com (azrael)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 15:00:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: i Don't get why it makes trouble
References: <5ddbbf79-a448-4cb0-96e8-427ab8160a78@q23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On 13 kol, 22:09, Philip Semanchuk  wrote:
> On Aug 13, 2009, at 2:56 PM, azrael wrote:
>
> >>>> j
> > [u'Tata', u'Oriovac', u'PrimorskoGoranska', u'hrvatska', u'Kuna']
> >>>> len(j)
> > 5
> >>>> h = """SELECT distinct u.id_ulica, o.id_opcina, z.id_zupanija, ?
> >>>> d.id_drzava, v.id_valuta FROM ? ulica as u, opcina as o, zupanija ?
> >>>> as z, drzava as d, valuta as v ?WHERE ?u.naziv = '%s' AND o.naziv ?
> >>>> = '%s' AND z.naziv = '%s' AND d.naziv = '%s' AND v.naziv = ?
> >>>> '%s'""" % (j)
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> > ?File "", line 1, in 
> > TypeError: not enough arguments for format string
>
> Hi azrael,
> You already have an answer to your question so I won't address that. I ?
> want to point out that this is a dangerous way to build SQL statements.
>
> For instance, what happens if someone enters a city name of L'viv? ?
> Your SQL will break due to mismatched single quotes. This kind of code ?
> is vulnerable to SQL injection attacks:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQL_injection
>
> Parameterized SQL is safer. Googling for 'parameterized SQL Python' ?
> should find some examples for you.
>
> Good luck
> Philip

I know Already. This is sopussed to be a small office application
connecting on a LAN mysql server with no web connection. Thank you
anyway


From goldtech at worldpost.com  Thu Aug 13 18:04:35 2009
From: goldtech at worldpost.com (goldtech)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 15:04:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Idle text wrap
Message-ID: <4e59f80c-e812-4273-9ebf-2c711ae35663@b25g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I'm using Idle interactive shell. Actually Idle-Spoon which has a few
nice extensions and Python 2.6 on Linux. When I

 print str_value + "\n"

Where str_value is for example a string of 120 chars.

I notice that the lines seem to get hard wrapped at around 80. Is
there a way I can config it to either wrap to the window, or for a
higher amount before wrapping?

Thanks.


From philip at semanchuk.com  Thu Aug 13 18:14:02 2009
From: philip at semanchuk.com (Philip Semanchuk)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 18:14:02 -0400
Subject: i Don't get why it makes trouble
In-Reply-To: 
References: <5ddbbf79-a448-4cb0-96e8-427ab8160a78@q23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <59821D8E-7130-421E-84E4-72B55E339702@semanchuk.com>


On Aug 13, 2009, at 6:00 PM, azrael wrote:

> On 13 kol, 22:09, Philip Semanchuk  wrote:
>> On Aug 13, 2009, at 2:56 PM, azrael wrote:
>>
>>>>>> j
>>> [u'Tata', u'Oriovac', u'PrimorskoGoranska', u'hrvatska', u'Kuna']
>>>>>> len(j)
>>> 5
>>>>>> h = """SELECT distinct u.id_ulica, o.id_opcina, z.id_zupanija,
>>>>>> d.id_drzava, v.id_valuta FROM   ulica as u, opcina as o, zupanija
>>>>>> as z, drzava as d, valuta as v  WHERE  u.naziv = '%s' AND o.naziv
>>>>>> = '%s' AND z.naziv = '%s' AND d.naziv = '%s' AND v.naziv =
>>>>>> '%s'""" % (j)
>>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>>  File "", line 1, in 
>>> TypeError: not enough arguments for format string
>>
>> Hi azrael,
>> You already have an answer to your question so I won't address  
>> that. I
>> want to point out that this is a dangerous way to build SQL  
>> statements.
>>
>> For instance, what happens if someone enters a city name of L'viv?
>> Your SQL will break due to mismatched single quotes. This kind of  
>> code
>> is vulnerable to SQL injection attacks:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQL_injection
>>
>> Parameterized SQL is safer. Googling for 'parameterized SQL Python'
>> should find some examples for you.
>>
>> Good luck
>> Philip
>
> I know Already. This is sopussed to be a small office application
> connecting on a LAN mysql server with no web connection. Thank you
> anyway

You're welcome. I'm glad you are aware. You're ahead of a lot of  
developers out there.

I encourage you to at least think about using parameterized SQL anyway  
because you never know when someone (maybe even you!) will copy &  
paste your code, or use your library without realizing that it was  
"internal use only". It's usually just as easy as building SQL strings  
anyway.

And besides, what about L'viv? =)

Good luck with whatever choice you make
Philip






From david.mcwright at usbfmi.com  Thu Aug 13 18:17:56 2009
From: david.mcwright at usbfmi.com (dippim)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 15:17:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: implementing descriptors
Message-ID: <39aff5a5-97ec-41f7-ab26-6e4d842b9c5c@r33g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>

I am new to Python and I have a question about descriptors.  If I have
a class as written below, is there a way to use descriptors to be
certain that the datetime in start is always before the one in end?

class foo(object):
   def __init__(self,a = None,b = None)
      self.start = a
      self.end = b

from datetime import datetime
c = datetime(2009,8,13,6,15,0)
d = datetime(2009,8,14,12,0,0)
afoo = foo(c,d)

For instance, if the following code were run, I would like to instance
of foo to switch the start and end times.

afoo.start = datetime(2010,8,13,6,15,0)

I was thinking of using the __set__ descriptor to catch the assignment
and reverse the values if necessary, but I can't figure out how to
determine which values is being set.

Thanks for the help!

David


From davigier at googlemail.com  Thu Aug 13 18:52:52 2009
From: davigier at googlemail.com (David)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 15:52:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to launch a function at regular time intervals ?
References: 
	
	 
	
	<6ebb8c71-870c-4233-a256-a4061a1ab530@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <18ac9f9a-0cf2-409c-82b3-ea068f21dbf7@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On 13 ao?t, 21:28, Dave Angel  wrote:
> David wrote:
> > Thanks all for your answers. As suggested by Dave and Frank, I am
> > indeed looking for the main program to continue running in the
> > background (I have several functions I want to launch, each at a
> > predefined time interval). I like Frank's solution, on the paper it
> > seems it would do what I am looking for, but I cannot succeed in
> > having it working. I guess I've been stuck with this problem for too
> > long and can't succeed in using my brain accurately anymore... ;-)
>
> > I defined the class as defined by Frank, and I then inserted the
> > following code in a While True loop, without any other code (the idea
> > is just to test Frank's solution before really using it in my
> > program):
>
> > ? ? func = MyFunction()
> > ? ? func.start()
>
> > ? ? func.stop()
> > ? ? func.join()
>
> > However I'm not getting the expected behavior. It's not taking into
> > account the 30 sec wait, the function is called again and again
> > without any time interval... Any idea ?
>
> > Again, thanks a lot.
>
> Why don't you include the code you're actually trying, instead of just
> trying to describe it. ?Frank's class didn't call any function, it just
> had a place to do it. ?So we really don't know what you're running, nor
> what about it is wrong.
>
> Perhaps a few well placed print statements?
>
> DaveA

Yes, I guess it would be more simple. Here is really what I am trying
to do. I simplified the functions, but the purpose is to write some
text in a local file every x seconds (here, I'm just writing the
timestamp, i.e. a string representing the date & time, every 10
seconds) and to transfer this file to a distant server via FTP every y
seconds (20 seconds in the example below). My code is a little bit
more complicated because each time I transfer the file, I delete the
local file which is then recreated when data is written, but for
simplicity I left this out in the code below. So, here is the code
I've been using to test Frank's code. I've been struggling with using
or not a While True loop or not, and everything I try seems to run
into issues.

import threading
from datetime import datetime
import ftplib

class CFtpConnection:
    """FTP Connection parameters"""
    def __init__(self, host, port, timeout, user, passwd):
        self.host = ""
        self.port = 21
        self.timeout = 60
        self.user = ""
        self.passwd = ""

class CStoreData(threading.Thread):
    """Write timestamp in a file every 10 seconds in separate
thread"""

    def __init__(self, timestamp):
        threading.Thread.__init__(self)
        self.event = threading.Event()
        self.timestamp = timestamp

    def run(self):
        while not self.event.is_set():
            file_handler = open("Test.txt", 'a')
            file_handler.write(self.timestamp.strftime("%y%m%d%H%M%S
\n"))
            file_handler.close()
            self.event.wait(10)

    def stop(self):
        self.event.set()

class CTransferData(threading.Thread):
    """Transfer timestamp file every 20 seconds in separate thread"""

    def __init__(self, ftp_connection):
        threading.Thread.__init__(self)
        self.event = threading.Event()
        self.ftp_connection = ftp_connection

    def run(self):
        while not self.event.is_set():
            file_handler = open("Test.txt", 'r')
            Ftp_handler = ftplib.FTP('')
            Ftp_handler.connect(self.ftp_connection.host,
self.ftp_connection.port, self.ftp_connection.timeout)
            Ftp_handler.login(self.ftp_connection.user,
self.ftp_connection.passwd)
            Ftp_handler.storbinary("STOR Test.txt", file_handler)
            file_handler.close()
            Ftp_handler.close()
            self.event.wait(20)

    def stop(self):
        self.event.set()

ftp_connection = CFtpConnection("", 21, 60, "", "")
ftp_connection.host = '127.0.0.1'
ftp_connection.user = "admin"
ftp_connection.passwd = "admin"

while(1):
  timestamp = datetime.now()
  func_store_data = CStoreData(timestamp)
  func_store_data.start()

  func_transfer_data = CTransferData(ftp_connection)
  func_transfer_data.start()

func_store_data.stop()
func_store_data.join()

func_transfer_data.stop()
func_transfer_data.join()


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Aug 13 19:19:29 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 00:19:29 +0100
Subject: implementing descriptors
In-Reply-To: <39aff5a5-97ec-41f7-ab26-6e4d842b9c5c@r33g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
References: <39aff5a5-97ec-41f7-ab26-6e4d842b9c5c@r33g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

dippim wrote:
> I am new to Python and I have a question about descriptors.  If I have
> a class as written below, is there a way to use descriptors to be
> certain that the datetime in start is always before the one in end?
> 
> class foo(object):
>    def __init__(self,a = None,b = None)
>       self.start = a
>       self.end = b
> 
> from datetime import datetime
> c = datetime(2009,8,13,6,15,0)
> d = datetime(2009,8,14,12,0,0)
> afoo = foo(c,d)
> 
> For instance, if the following code were run, I would like to instance
> of foo to switch the start and end times.
> 
> afoo.start = datetime(2010,8,13,6,15,0)
> 
> I was thinking of using the __set__ descriptor to catch the assignment
> and reverse the values if necessary, but I can't figure out how to
> determine which values is being set.
> 
> Thanks for the help!
> 
> David
Take a look at the example given here.
http://users.rcn.com/python/download/Descriptor.htm

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From mdekauwe at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 19:38:07 2009
From: mdekauwe at gmail.com (Martin)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 16:38:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: PIL and Python
References: 
Message-ID: <9683190f-3c99-49d6-93d1-d8966d38d7a6@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 13, 1:55?pm, "catalinf... at gmail.com" 
wrote:
> Hello !
> I want use python to change the "note" from .jpeg files .
> What is the functions on PIL how make this ?
> Thank you !

What do u mean by the note?


From emile at fenx.com  Thu Aug 13 19:57:21 2009
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 16:57:21 -0700
Subject: implementing descriptors
In-Reply-To: <39aff5a5-97ec-41f7-ab26-6e4d842b9c5c@r33g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
References: <39aff5a5-97ec-41f7-ab26-6e4d842b9c5c@r33g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On 8/13/2009 3:17 PM dippim said...
> I am new to Python and I have a question about descriptors.  If I have
> a class as written below, is there a way to use descriptors to be
> certain that the datetime in start is always before the one in end?
> 
> class foo(object):
>    def __init__(self,a = None,b = None)
>       self.start = a
>       self.end = b
> 
> from datetime import datetime
> c = datetime(2009,8,13,6,15,0)
> d = datetime(2009,8,14,12,0,0)
> afoo = foo(c,d)
> 
> For instance, if the following code were run, I would like to instance
> of foo to switch the start and end times.
> 
> afoo.start = datetime(2010,8,13,6,15,0)
> 
> I was thinking of using the __set__ descriptor to catch the assignment
> and reverse the values if necessary, 

why not...


class foo(object):
    def __init__(self,a = None,b = None)
       self.start = min(a,b)
       self.end = max(a,b)


Emile



From davea at ieee.org  Thu Aug 13 20:06:56 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 20:06:56 -0400
Subject: need help calculating point between two coordinates.
In-Reply-To: <2d059a29-933e-4e2c-8730-f1f2688af26c@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <2d059a29-933e-4e2c-8730-f1f2688af26c@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A84AAA0.6060105@ieee.org>

PeteDK wrote:
> Hi there
>
> I'am working on a route comparison tool for carpools.
>
> The route comparison is based on 'steps' retrieved from google maps
> GDirection. These steps vary in length and i use the coordinates at
> the beginning of each "step". However, sometimes the distance of these
> steps is too long(ex. driving 30-40 km. on the freeway). Therefore i
> would like to calculate/find the coordinate located in between two
> given coordinates.
> Lets say one step starts at:
> 56.043185,9.922714
> and ends at:
> 56.234287,9.864521
>
> I would then like to calculate the point right in the middle of these
> coordinates.
>
> I use the haversine form to calculate the distance between
> coordinates, but im not sure whether or not this can be used for the
> same purpose.
> http://www.mpi.nl/world/persons/private ... versine.py
>
> I apologize if this thread has been posted the wrong place:)
>
> any help is greatly appreciated!
>
> kind regards.
>
> Pete
>
>   
For the distances you're talking about, those coordinates are very close 
to linear.  So to find the midpoint, just average the coordinates.  You 
might be off by half a km, but roads bend more than that.

DaveA



From goldtech at worldpost.com  Thu Aug 13 20:36:59 2009
From: goldtech at worldpost.com (goldtech)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:36:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python "and" behavior
Message-ID: <10da5db0-ba83-42a1-8ce8-95d13b513ca1@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

Could you explain or link me to an explanation of this? Been using
Python for a while but not sure I understand what's happening below.
Thanks.


>>> ss=1 and "fffff"
>>> ss
'fffff'
>>> ss=0 and "fffff"
>>> ss
0
>>>


From gherron at islandtraining.com  Thu Aug 13 20:50:42 2009
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:50:42 -0700
Subject: Python "and" behavior
In-Reply-To: <10da5db0-ba83-42a1-8ce8-95d13b513ca1@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
References: <10da5db0-ba83-42a1-8ce8-95d13b513ca1@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A84B4E2.9080300@islandtraining.com>

goldtech wrote:
> Could you explain or link me to an explanation of this? Been using
> Python for a while but not sure I understand what's happening below.
> Thanks.
>
>
>   
>>>> ss=1 and "fffff"
>>>> ss
>>>>         
> 'fffff'
>   
>>>> ss=0 and "fffff"
>>>> ss
>>>>         
> 0
>   

Python's Boolean operators don't turn arbitrary values into True and 
False values.  If you use it in any conditional, you'll get the same 
result as if it did, but it is occasionally it's nice to get the actual 
values used in the "and" instead of having the value distilled down to a 
True/False.


 From the Python manual: 

These are the Boolean operations, ordered by ascending priority:

Operation 	Result 	Notes
|x or y| 	if x is false, then y, else x 	(1)
|x and y| 	if x is false, then x, else y 	(1)
|not x| 	if x is false, then |True|, else |False| 	(2)

Notes:

*(1)*
    These only evaluate their second argument if needed for their outcome.

*(2)*
    "not" has a lower priority than non-Boolean operators, so |not a ==
    b| is interpreted as |not (a == b)|, and |a == not b| is a syntax
    error.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From mensanator at aol.com  Thu Aug 13 20:52:40 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:52:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python "and" behavior
References: <10da5db0-ba83-42a1-8ce8-95d13b513ca1@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <44940d04-6378-4a32-b470-d4709aab1ada@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 13, 7:36?pm, goldtech  wrote:
> Could you explain or link me to an explanation of this? Been using
> Python for a while but not sure I understand what's happening below.
> Thanks.
>
>
>
>
>
> >>> ss=1 and "fffff"
> >>> ss
> 'fffff'
> >>> ss=0 and "fffff"
> >>> ss
> 0


Does this help?

>>> ss = True and 'fffff'
>>> ss
'fffff'
>>> ss = False and 'eeeee'
>>> ss
False




From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 21:02:38 2009
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 18:02:38 -0700
Subject: Python "and" behavior
In-Reply-To: <10da5db0-ba83-42a1-8ce8-95d13b513ca1@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
References: <10da5db0-ba83-42a1-8ce8-95d13b513ca1@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c20908131802v2295b18ev12af2ac830c24669@mail.gmail.com>

>
> Could you explain or link me to an explanation of this? Been using
> Python for a while but not sure I understand what's happening below.
> Thanks.
>
> >>> ss=1 and "fffff"
> >>> ss
> 'fffff'
> >>> ss=0 and "fffff"
> >>> ss
> 0
> >>>


The "and" and "or" operators in Python are actually not true boolean
operators: they operate on the more fundamental interpretation of Truth that
Python uses (and that 'if' for example uses) that goes back before Python
got actual boolean True/False values.
"x and y" evaluates first x; if it is false, its value is returned.
Otherwise, the value of y is returned.

"x or y" evaluates first x; if it is true, its value is returned. Otherwise,
the value of y is returned.

Python's idea of "true" verses "false" isn't the same as True and False.
It's been described as "something" verses "nothing", as in Python the
following are considered false: False, None, numeric 0 (in all types of
numbers), empty strings, empty containers (lists, tuples, dictionaries,
sets). Everything else is True. Instances of any class are True by default,
but they can have a __nonzero__ operation on them to override that.

So, every value has an innate 'truthfulness' about it: the 'if' statement
bases its decision on that truthfulness. In the context of truthfulness, the
string "hello" is just as true as the singleton True. So, if you do "x and
y", if 'x' is a false value... then 'x' is returned-- as 'x' is just as
false as the singleton False. Both are different ways of saying 'false' in
logical operations.

Lots of people don't like this. Lots of people do. Some people want it to be
pure-true boolean algebra, have them return True/False always-- some people
have even argued for "if" only branching on True/False values. The fact of
the matter is, this is all just a fundamental part of Python that pre-dates
it ever having true boolean values, and is never gonna go away.

There's some useful properties to it, like:

    value = opt or "default"

In this case, if opt was set to a something, it'll end up in value.
Otherwise, "default" will. Of course that's only useful where a opt would
never have a blank string or 0 or such in it naturally.

The poor-man's ternary operator was commonly used before Python got a proper
one:

    value = x and "Yes" or "No"

The construct had some limits(namely, the value in the "Yes" part of the
expression must be truthy), but is still useful in a lot of situations. If
"x" would evaluate true, then value would be set to "Yes". Otherwise, it'd
be set to "No".

HTH,

--Stephen
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From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Aug 13 21:09:09 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 02:09:09 +0100
Subject: Python "and" behavior
In-Reply-To: <4A84B4E2.9080300@islandtraining.com>
References: <10da5db0-ba83-42a1-8ce8-95d13b513ca1@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
	<4A84B4E2.9080300@islandtraining.com>
Message-ID: <4A84B935.8080809@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Gary Herron wrote:
> goldtech wrote:
>> Could you explain or link me to an explanation of this? Been using
>> Python for a while but not sure I understand what's happening below.
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>>   
>>>>> ss=1 and "fffff"
>>>>> ss
>>>>>         
>> 'fffff'
>>   
>>>>> ss=0 and "fffff"
>>>>> ss
>>>>>         
>> 0
>>   
> 
> Python's Boolean operators don't turn arbitrary values into True and 
> False values.  If you use it in any conditional, you'll get the same 
> result as if it did, but it is occasionally it's nice to get the actual 
> values used in the "and" instead of having the value distilled down to a 
> True/False.
> 
> 
>  >From the Python manual: 
> 
> These are the Boolean operations, ordered by ascending priority:
> 
> Operation 	Result 	Notes
> |x or y| 	if x is false, then y, else x 	(1)
> |x and y| 	if x is false, then x, else y 	(1)
> |not x| 	if x is false, then |True|, else |False| 	(2)
> 
The Pythonic table would be:

Operation 	Result
|x or y| 	x if x else y
|x and y| 	y if x else x
|not x| 	False if x else False

:-)


From arphaksad at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 21:21:39 2009
From: arphaksad at gmail.com (naaman)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 18:21:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: fileinput
References: 
	
	<521d7322-b8ee-490e-8cde-7e854e8afb7a@r34g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <31f257a9-8949-47d7-a0ae-0b4ab7822eb6@q23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 13, 7:50?am, Dave Angel  wrote:
> naaman wrote:
> > On Aug 12, 1:35 pm, Dave Angel  wrote:
>
> >> naaman wrote:
>
> >>> I'm writing my first Python script and
> >>> I want to use fileinput to open a file in r+ mode.
> >>> Tried fileinput.input(sys.argv[1:],"r+") but that didn't work.
> >>> ANy ideas?
>
> >>> Need to find and overwrite a line in a file several times.
> >>> I can do it using open and seek() etc. but was wondering if I can use
> >>> fileinput.
>
> >>> thanks;
>
> >> I haven't used it, but check out the 'inplace' keyword parameter.
>
> >> DaveA
>
> > I've only Python for a week so I'm not sure what inplace does
>
> You should read the docs for it
> ? ? (http://www.python.org/doc/2.6.2/library/fileinput.html?),
> but it's not very clear to me either ?So I dug up an example on the web:
> ? ? ?(ref: ?http://effbot.org/librarybook/fileinput.htm)
>
> import fileinput, sys
>
> for line in fileinput.input(inplace=1):
> ? ? # /convert Windows/DOS text files to Unix files/
> ? ? if line[-2:] == "\r\n":
> ? ? ? ? line = line[:-2] + "\n"
> ? ? sys.stdout.write(line)
>
> The inplace argument tells it to create a new file with the same name as
> the original (doing all the necessary nonsense with using a scratch
> file, and renaming/deleting) for each file processed. ?Stdout is pointed
> to that new version of the file. ?Notice that you have to explicitly
> write everything you want to wind up in the file -- if a given line is
> to remain unchanged, you just write "line" directly.
>
> If you're new to Python, I do not recommend trying to do open/seek to
> update a text file in place, especially if you're in DOS. ?There are
> lots of traps. ?the inplace method of fileinput avoids these by
> implicitly creating temp files and handling the details for you, which
> probably works great if you're dealing with text, in order.
>
> DaveA

Thanks Dave. I'll check that out


From xahlee at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 21:36:04 2009
From: xahlee at gmail.com (Xah Lee)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 18:36:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: A Exhibition Of Tech Geekers Incompetence: Emacs whitespace-mode
Message-ID: <61ef4451-d6b6-493b-b4a0-1822a901ca8d@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

? A Exhibition Of Tech Geekers Incompetence: Emacs whitespace-mode
  http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/emacs_whitespace-mode_problems.html

plane text version follows:
--------------------------------------------------

A Exhibition Of Tech Geekers Incompetence: Emacs whitespace-mode

Xah Lee, 2009-08-13

Just wanted to express some frustration with whitespace-mode.

Emacs 23, just released, has this whitespace-mode feature. It renders
spaces, tabs, newlines characters with a visible glyph. This feature,
is in Microsoft Word since about 1992.

This feature is important in practical ways. For example, when you
work with ?tab separated line? files (CSV) that's a common format for
importing/exporting address books or spreadsheets. It's also important
in whitespace-significant langs such as Python. Or, in text processing
when placement of space and tabs matters in the output.

All i wanted, is to make Space and Tab and Newline chars visible.

However, the emacs whitespace-mode does much more than that. It is
designed for tech geeking control freaks to tune every aspect of white
space in his source code. The mode is filled with bells and whistles.
It distinguishes tabs mixed with spaces, EOLs mixed with spaces, EOLs
at beginning of file, EOLs at end of file, run on spaces at end of
line, lines that has nothing to do with white spaces but is simply
longer than 80 chars, etc. Each of these is rendered with different
foreground, background, colors, so that they cannot possibly escape
the notices of control freaks.

By default, most of these are on, so that, when you turn on the mode,
most reasonable clean source code become this colorful rainbow
unreadable fuck.

I tried to tune it, with my 10 years of emacs of fucking 16 hours of
using per day, and 3 years of elisp coding experience. But, after a
hour, it's confusion hell sans avail.

O, that Alex idiot with his emacswiki, refused to lead emacswiki into
any readable state. All he can think about is my social skills. (See:
Problems of Emacswiki.)

What the fuck motherfuck. Hi tech geekers, coding freaks, social
science ignoramus fucks, basic economics illiterate FSF fucks, freedom
abusing selfish ideologists fucks, Richard Stallman propagandist fuck,
we-try-to-be-easy-to-use linuxer idioting fucks, FUCK U.

  Xah
? http://xahlee.org/

?


From timinganalyzer at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 21:43:27 2009
From: timinganalyzer at gmail.com (timinganalyzer)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 18:43:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: new version TimingAnalyzer
Message-ID: <55314c4f-24e0-4c2c-8016-3d004b622d21@j9g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>

Hi All,

   1.Added a new User Delay and Constraint Editor panel. You can add,
delete, or update User Delays or Constraints.
   2 .These User Delays and User Constraints are saved at the top of
the .tim file.
   3.Changing a User Delay or User Constraint updates every one of the
same type in the diagram.
   4.Files created with previous versions are converted to this new
format when saved.
   5.Added Python Interpreter, Jython 2.5. Now you can write scripts
in Python.
   6.Execute Python scripts using the same script dialog for the
beanshell scripts or from Jython command line window.
   7.Included start_app.py script in the install directory that will
start the TimingAnalyzer from a Jython command line window.
   8.Updated spice_pwl.bsh. This beanshell script generates spice
piece wise linear test vectors for DigitalBus.
   9.Included dff.py. This Python script shows how to generate a
timing diagram for a D Flip Flop.

Anyone interested in helping convert the Java scripts (in the scripts
dir) to Python should let me know.
Dan Fabrizio

www.timing-diagrams.com


From jura.grozni at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 21:51:10 2009
From: jura.grozni at gmail.com (azrael)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 18:51:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: i Don't get why it makes trouble
References: <5ddbbf79-a448-4cb0-96e8-427ab8160a78@q23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

On 14 kol, 00:14, Philip Semanchuk  wrote:
> On Aug 13, 2009, at 6:00 PM, azrael wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 13 kol, 22:09, Philip Semanchuk  wrote:
> >> On Aug 13, 2009, at 2:56 PM, azrael wrote:
>
> >>>>>> j
> >>> [u'Tata', u'Oriovac', u'PrimorskoGoranska', u'hrvatska', u'Kuna']
> >>>>>> len(j)
> >>> 5
> >>>>>> h = """SELECT distinct u.id_ulica, o.id_opcina, z.id_zupanija,
> >>>>>> d.id_drzava, v.id_valuta FROM ? ulica as u, opcina as o, zupanija
> >>>>>> as z, drzava as d, valuta as v ?WHERE ?u.naziv = '%s' AND o.naziv
> >>>>>> = '%s' AND z.naziv = '%s' AND d.naziv = '%s' AND v.naziv =
> >>>>>> '%s'""" % (j)
> >>> Traceback (most recent call last):
> >>> ?File "", line 1, in 
> >>> TypeError: not enough arguments for format string
>
> >> Hi azrael,
> >> You already have an answer to your question so I won't address ?
> >> that. I
> >> want to point out that this is a dangerous way to build SQL ?
> >> statements.
>
> >> For instance, what happens if someone enters a city name of L'viv?
> >> Your SQL will break due to mismatched single quotes. This kind of ?
> >> code
> >> is vulnerable to SQL injection attacks:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQL_injection
>
> >> Parameterized SQL is safer. Googling for 'parameterized SQL Python'
> >> should find some examples for you.
>
> >> Good luck
> >> Philip
>
> > I know Already. This is sopussed to be a small office application
> > connecting on a LAN mysql server with no web connection. Thank you
> > anyway
>
> You're welcome. I'm glad you are aware. You're ahead of a lot of ?
> developers out there.
>
> I encourage you to at least think about using parameterized SQL anyway ?
> because you never know when someone (maybe even you!) will copy & ?
> paste your code, or use your library without realizing that it was ?
> "internal use only". It's usually just as easy as building SQL strings ?
> anyway.
>
> And besides, what about L'viv? =)
>
> Good luck with whatever choice you make
> Philip

Currently I am working on just a prototype to show what is possible to
be done to get me some fundings for my future work. after that I will
get over to an SQL Alchemy. It's ORM will take over this business for
me.

A lot of people a not aware of SQL injection. My friend from college
asked me and a couple of other guys for Pen testing of an website. His
SQL injection mistake made him an epic fail.

Thanks


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Thu Aug 13 22:20:18 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 22:20:18 -0400
Subject: csv.DictWriter.write_header()
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908131920r14862573j6bdbfc7a486d5b26@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 4:45 PM, Alan G Isaac wrote:
> Given a csv.DictWriter instance `dw`
> I think it would be nice to be able to
> say dw.write_header()
> instead of
> dw.writer.writerow(dw.fieldnames)
>
> Good idea?

Maybe. You could file a bug: http://bugs.python.org/

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From akonsu at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 22:32:03 2009
From: akonsu at gmail.com (akonsu)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 19:32:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: something like perl's Mail::GPG ?
Message-ID: <4365602b-e174-4419-a1f7-44dde1b66b0c@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

hello,

i am looking for a module with functionality similar to that of the
Perl's Mail::GPG package. I need to verify multipart emails that are
PGP-signed.

thanks for any advice
konstantin


From arphaksad at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 22:33:32 2009
From: arphaksad at gmail.com (naaman)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 19:33:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: fileinput
References: 
	
	<521d7322-b8ee-490e-8cde-7e854e8afb7a@r34g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <5d11458b-322d-4851-98a8-13c4cee4f5aa@o13g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 13, 7:50?am, Dave Angel  wrote:
> naaman wrote:
> > On Aug 12, 1:35 pm, Dave Angel  wrote:
>
> >> naaman wrote:
>
> >>> I'm writing my first Python script and
> >>> I want to use fileinput to open a file in r+ mode.
> >>> Tried fileinput.input(sys.argv[1:],"r+") but that didn't work.
> >>> ANy ideas?
>
> >>> Need to find and overwrite a line in a file several times.
> >>> I can do it using open and seek() etc. but was wondering if I can use
> >>> fileinput.
>
> >>> thanks;
>
> >> I haven't used it, but check out the 'inplace' keyword parameter.
>
> >> DaveA
>
> > I've only Python for a week so I'm not sure what inplace does
>
> You should read the docs for it
> ? ? (http://www.python.org/doc/2.6.2/library/fileinput.html?),
> but it's not very clear to me either ?So I dug up an example on the web:
> ? ? ?(ref: ?http://effbot.org/librarybook/fileinput.htm)
>
> import fileinput, sys
>
> for line in fileinput.input(inplace=1):
> ? ? # /convert Windows/DOS text files to Unix files/
> ? ? if line[-2:] == "\r\n":
> ? ? ? ? line = line[:-2] + "\n"
> ? ? sys.stdout.write(line)
>
> The inplace argument tells it to create a new file with the same name as
> the original (doing all the necessary nonsense with using a scratch
> file, and renaming/deleting) for each file processed. ?Stdout is pointed
> to that new version of the file. ?Notice that you have to explicitly
> write everything you want to wind up in the file -- if a given line is
> to remain unchanged, you just write "line" directly.
>
> If you're new to Python, I do not recommend trying to do open/seek to
> update a text file in place, especially if you're in DOS. ?There are
> lots of traps. ?the inplace method of fileinput avoids these by
> implicitly creating temp files and handling the details for you, which
> probably works great if you're dealing with text, in order.
>
> DaveA

I wonder if inline creates an empty file and then the text from the
processed file gets written to it. If that's what is going on then
it's perfect solution. It will eliminate all the tell() and seek() and
overwriting a shorter line with a longer one.  I'll try it over the
weekend. thanks


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Thu Aug 13 23:15:14 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 00:15:14 -0300
Subject: Delegate attribute requests to object
References: <1a78d23f0908130850v3f013b37rd1a7bce23041eedc@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<1a78d23f0908131013x25feee2fwe6b907045e87b6f5@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<1a78d23f0908131100p75520be4oe7572aae00bf2f13@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: 

En Thu, 13 Aug 2009 12:50:47 -0300, Evan Kroske   
escribi?:

> I'm trying to use the decorator pattern in a program I'm developing. I  
> want
> to create a decorator object that works like the object it's decorating
> except for a few functions. However, I'd rather not hard-code all the
> identical functionality from the decorated object into the decorator  
> object.
> Is there a way I can intercept all the attribute and function requests  
> for
> the decorator and delegate them to the decorated object?

You may search the list archives for references to "proxy" and  
"delegation". The term "decorator" has a very specific meaning in Python  
(as a syntax construct), don't use it in the search.

> Is it possible (without inheritance)?

Yes, using delegation. See below.

En Thu, 13 Aug 2009 15:29:04 -0300, Rami Chowdhury  
 escribi?:

> Oops, my apologies, it's the __getattribute__ method you want to call on  
> self.decorated (because __getattr__ won't be there unless you define it  
> specifically)
> So it should go:
>
> def __getattr__(self, request):
> 	return self.decorated.__getattribute__(request)

__getattribute__ doesn't exist on old-style classes either. Also, note  
that very rarely one has to *call* __special__ methods; the code should  
read:

     def __getattr__(self, request):
	return getattr(self.decorated, request)

but that works *only* for old-style classes, as discussed here [1]. [3] is  
another approach for new-style classes (maybe not production-ready yet).  
And this recipe [2] shows how to make the decorated object keep calling  
methods on the decorator itself.

[1] http://code.activestate.com/recipes/252151/
[2] http://code.activestate.com/recipes/519639/
[3] http://code.activestate.com/recipes/496741/

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From nirvana117 at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 23:16:18 2009
From: nirvana117 at gmail.com (dou dou)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 11:16:18 +0800
Subject: problem with interface of operator.itemgetter
Message-ID: <19b355330908132016y49f2679u631c3123fcfc920a@mail.gmail.com>

I have a function to do some thing like LEFT JOIN in SQL, the function use
the itemgetter to get the "ON" and "SELECT" parameters of the two table(list
of list), the problem is that itemgetter may return a value or a tuple of
values, because of the inconsistent return type of itemgetter, I have to do
2^3 IF check,
the function like this:

def left_join(table1, on_index1, table2, on_index2, getter1, getter2):
    """do thing like:
    SELECT on1(table1), g1(table1), g2(table2) FROM table1
    LEFT JOIN table2
    ON on1(table1) == on2(table2)
    """
    on1 = itemgetter(*on_index1)
    on2 = itemgetter(*on_index2)
    g1 = itemgetter(*getter1)
    g2 = itemgetter(*getter2)

    d2 = {}
    d2 = dict((on2(r2), r2) for r2 in table2)

    #if itemgetter always return tuple, below could simple as one line
    #return [ list(on1(r1) + g1(r1) + g2(d2.get(on1(r1)))) for r1 in table1
]

    len_on = len(on_index1)
    len_g1 = len(getter1)
    len_g2 = len(getter2)

    if len_on == 1:
        if len_g1 == 1 and len_g2 == 1:
            return [ [on1(r1), g1(r1), g2(d2.get(on1(r1)))] for r1 in table1
]
        elif len_g1 == 1 and len_g2 > 1:
            return [ list((on1(r1),g1(r1))+g2(d2.get(on1(r1)))) for r1 in
table1 ]
        elif len_g1 > 1 and len_g2 == 1:
            return [ list((on1(r1),)+g1(r1)+(g2(d2.get(on1(r1))),))  for r1
in table1 ]
        else: #len_g1 > 1 and len_g2 > 1:
            return [ list((on1(r1),)+g1(r1)+g2(d2.get(on1(r1)))) for r1 in
table1 ]
    else: # len_on > 1
        if len_g1 == 1 and len_g2 == 1:
            return [ list(on1(r1))+[g1(r1),g2(d2.get(on1(r1)))] for r1 in
table1 ]
        elif len_g1 == 1 and len_g2 > 1:
            return [ list(on1(r1)+(g1(r1),)+g2(d2.get(on1(r1)))) for r1 in
table1 ]
        elif len_g1 > 1 and len_g2 == 1:
            return [ list(on1(r1)+g1(r1)+(g2(d2.get(on1(r1))),))  for r1 in
table1 ]
        else: #len_g1 > 1 and len_g2 > 1:
            return [ list(on1(r1)+g1(r1)+g2(d2.get(on1(r1)))) for r1 in
table1 ]

so is there a way to force itemgetter to return tuple even when
itemgetter(only_have_one_argument)? or some other function to do this?

Thanks.
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From arphaksad at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 23:25:02 2009
From: arphaksad at gmail.com (naaman)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 20:25:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: fileinput
References: 
	
Message-ID: <88cecdd5-4a7f-40ee-ad2d-1b481d5db03d@g1g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 13, 1:20?am, "Gabriel Genellina" 
wrote:
> En Wed, 12 Aug 2009 01:27:47 -0300, naaman  escribi?:
>
> > I'm writing my first Python script and
> > I want to use fileinput to open a file in r+ mode.
> > Tried fileinput.input(sys.argv[1:],"r+") but that didn't work.
> > ANy ideas?
>
> Don't use fileinput, it can't handle r+, only sequencial access.
> Even if you could use it, the documentation says [1]:
> fileinput.input([files[, inplace[, backup[, mode[, openhook]]]]])
>
> "r+" corresponds to the `inplace` parameter (behaving like inplace=True) ?
> instead of `mode`. You could write fileinput.input(sys.argv[1:], ?
> mode="r+") instead - but again from the docs: "mode... must be one of 'r', ?
> 'rU', 'U' and 'rb'"
>
> > Need to find and overwrite a line in a file several times.
> > I can do it using open and seek() etc. but was wondering if I can use
> > fileinput.
>
> open+seek is the way to do that (assuming you don't alter the line length)
>
> [1]http://docs.python.org/library/fileinput.html#fileinput.input
>
> --
> Gabriel Genellina

unfortunately, I am overwriting shorter with longer


From arphaksad at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 23:41:41 2009
From: arphaksad at gmail.com (naaman)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 20:41:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: fileinput
References: 
	
	<521d7322-b8ee-490e-8cde-7e854e8afb7a@r34g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 13, 7:50?am, Dave Angel  wrote:
> naaman wrote:
> > On Aug 12, 1:35 pm, Dave Angel  wrote:
>
> >> naaman wrote:
>
> >>> I'm writing my first Python script and
> >>> I want to use fileinput to open a file in r+ mode.
> >>> Tried fileinput.input(sys.argv[1:],"r+") but that didn't work.
> >>> ANy ideas?
>
> >>> Need to find and overwrite a line in a file several times.
> >>> I can do it using open and seek() etc. but was wondering if I can use
> >>> fileinput.
>
> >>> thanks;
>
> >> I haven't used it, but check out the 'inplace' keyword parameter.
>
> >> DaveA
>
> > I've only Python for a week so I'm not sure what inplace does
>
> You should read the docs for it
> ? ? (http://www.python.org/doc/2.6.2/library/fileinput.html?),
> but it's not very clear to me either ?So I dug up an example on the web:
> ? ? ?(ref: ?http://effbot.org/librarybook/fileinput.htm)
>
> import fileinput, sys
>
> for line in fileinput.input(inplace=1):
> ? ? # /convert Windows/DOS text files to Unix files/
> ? ? if line[-2:] == "\r\n":
> ? ? ? ? line = line[:-2] + "\n"
> ? ? sys.stdout.write(line)
>
> The inplace argument tells it to create a new file with the same name as
> the original (doing all the necessary nonsense with using a scratch
> file, and renaming/deleting) for each file processed. ?Stdout is pointed
> to that new version of the file. ?Notice that you have to explicitly
> write everything you want to wind up in the file -- if a given line is
> to remain unchanged, you just write "line" directly.
>
> If you're new to Python, I do not recommend trying to do open/seek to
> update a text file in place, especially if you're in DOS. ?There are
> lots of traps. ?the inplace method of fileinput avoids these by
> implicitly creating temp files and handling the details for you, which
> probably works great if you're dealing with text, in order.
>
> DaveA

here's the solution

import fileinput, sys

for line in fileinput.input(sys.argv[1],inplace=1):
    if (line[:-1]==r'drew'):
        line=line.replace(line,"fancy dog")
    sys.stdout.write(line)

I want to replace drew in my input file with fancy dog.
Tested with this input file
angel
heaven
flying monkees
lazy dogs
drew
blue sky
veritas

and got this
angel
heaven
flying monkees
lazy dogs
fancy dog
blue sky
veritas

So drew was replaced with fancy dog.
Thanks to your inputs I got this solved. :-))


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Fri Aug 14 00:09:45 2009
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 21:09:45 -0700
Subject: Programming by Contract
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4A7A15CD.9090306@stoneleaf.us> <4A81C6B8.7010605@stoneleaf.us>
	
Message-ID: 

Charles Yeomans wrote:
> 
> On Aug 11, 2009, at 3:30 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
> 
>> Ethan Furman wrote:
>>> Greetings!
>>> I have seen posts about the assert statement and PbC (or maybe it was 
>>> DbC), and I just took a very brief look at pycontract 
>>> (http://www.wayforward.net/pycontract/) and now I have at least one 
>>> question:  Is this basically another way of thinking about unit 
>>> testing, or is the idea of PbC more along the lines of *always* 
>>> checking the input/output of functions to ensure they are correct?  
>>> (*Contstant vigilance!* as Prof Moody would say ;)
>>> I know asserts can be turned off, so they obviously won't work for 
>>> the latter case, and having seen the sample of pycontract it seems it 
>>> only does its thing during debugging.
>>> So is Design (Programming) by Contract a fancy way of saying 
>>> "Document your inputs/outputs!" or is there more to it?
>>> ~Ethan~
>>
>> Hmmm...
>>
>> Well, from the (apparently) complete lack of interest, I shall take 
>> away the (better?) documentation ideas and unit testing ideas, and not 
>> worry about the rest.  :)
>>
>>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Design by contract is complementary to unit testing (I notice that the 
> author of PEP 316 appears confused about this).  DbC is, roughly 
> speaking, about explicit allocation of responsibility.  Consider this 
> contrived example.
> 
> def foo(s):
>     require(s is not None)
>     //code
>     ensure(hasattr(returnValue, '__iter__'))

yo might want two flags, REQUIRE_OFF, and ENSURE_ON that control
testing, and change the code above to:
       require(REQUIRE_OFF or s is not None)
       //code
       ensure(ENSURE_OFF or hasattr(returnValue, '__iter__'))

Python has no good way to turn off argument calculation by
manipulating function definition (at least that I know of).

--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From akonsu at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 00:22:45 2009
From: akonsu at gmail.com (akonsu)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 21:22:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: coding for multiple versions of python
References: 
Message-ID: <57f07ff6-282c-4ac1-b03a-b26321a02f70@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 13, 12:57?pm, "Tim Arnold"  wrote:
> Hi,
> I've got a python based system that has to run on hp unix and red hat linux.
> The Python version on the HP is 2.4 and the version on the Linux box is 2.6.
> There's nothing I can do about that.
>
> I think that means I must have two different libraries since the pyc files
> are not cross-version compatible. No problem for the libs like PIL or lxml.
> But for the part of the system I actually code every day, I'd rather not do
> dual maintenance, having two copies of my code for each platform/version.
>
> I'm guessing I need to configure cvs to copy files to both locations
> whenever I commit. Does that sound right? Is there a better way I'm not
> thinking of?
>
> thanks,
> --Tim

hello,

why would you need to maintain pyc files at all? is having just source
files enough? or am i missing something?

konstantin


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Fri Aug 14 00:29:58 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 00:29:58 -0400
Subject: coding for multiple versions of python
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908132129p24b1f5e2y586d8d30648e0cd8@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 12:57 PM, Tim Arnold wrote:
> Hi,
> I've got a python based system that has to run on hp unix and red hat linux.
> The Python version on the HP is 2.4 and the version on the Linux box is 2.6.
> There's nothing I can do about that.
>
> I think that means I must have two different libraries since the pyc files
> are not cross-version compatible.

Why would the .pyc-s matter? They're just an optimization, which fall
back to the .py files. It only matters if the .py sourcecode files are
compatible with both versions.

> But for the part of the system I actually code every day, I'd rather not do
> dual maintenance, having two copies of my code for each platform/version.
>
> I'm guessing I need to configure cvs to copy files to both locations
> whenever I commit. Does that sound right? Is there a better way I'm not
> thinking of?

Put your code's directory in the PYTHONPATH / sys.path of both Python versions.
You will still have to write code that works in both versions though.
Essentially, don't use any new syntax that's not present in the older
version, and you'll have to work around any new/changed functions you
use.

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Aug 14 00:45:23 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:45:23 +0900
Subject: i Don't get why it makes trouble
In-Reply-To: <189e10f1-771a-4631-a907-56d450b5e493@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <5ddbbf79-a448-4cb0-96e8-427ab8160a78@q23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>		
	<189e10f1-771a-4631-a907-56d450b5e493@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

azrael wrote:

> Thanks Worked fine for me. I was a freakin idiot. I forgot about using
> a tuple. damn lists :D

The special casing of tuples versus other sequence objects with % 
formatting, and the forgetting and mistake making of multiple people is 
one of the reasons for the new .format system. Any sequence can either 
be passed and printed as a single object or *unrolled as multiple objects.

tjr



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Aug 14 00:49:19 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:49:19 +0900
Subject: trouble with reload
In-Reply-To: <24956946.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <24956946.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: 

Dr. Phillip M. Feldman wrote:
> According to the Python documentation, 'reload' reloads a previously imported
> module (so that changes made via an external editor will be effective). 
> But, when I try to use this command, I get the following error message:
> 
> TypeError: reload() argument must be module
> 
> Any suggestions will be appreciated.

Besides the other answers, do not use reload. It is removed in Py3 
because it cannot be made to work as people reasonably expect.

tjr



From nobody at nowhere.com  Fri Aug 14 00:52:24 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 05:52:24 +0100
Subject: PIL and Python
References: 
	<9683190f-3c99-49d6-93d1-d8966d38d7a6@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 16:38:07 -0700, Martin wrote:

>> I want use python to change the "note" from .jpeg files .
>> What is the functions on PIL how make this ?
> 
> What do u mean by the note?

I think he means the EXIF data.



From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 00:59:19 2009
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 21:59:19 -0700
Subject: i Don't get why it makes trouble
In-Reply-To: 
References: <5ddbbf79-a448-4cb0-96e8-427ab8160a78@q23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: <7a9c25c20908132159t113e339x2bd27b333c8f5f19@mail.gmail.com>

>
> Currently I am working on just a prototype to show what is possible to
> be done to get me some fundings for my future work. after that I will
> get over to an SQL Alchemy. It's ORM will take over this business for
> me.
>
> A lot of people a not aware of SQL injection. My friend from college
> asked me and a couple of other guys for Pen testing of an website. His
> SQL injection mistake made him an epic fail.
>

You don't really need to go the full ORM route to do this safely --
constructing SQL from user input is not only wrong from a security point of
view, but it's actually just harder to do it that way then use the
mechanisms provided in PEP-249 compliant DB-API modules. Life's easier if
you use parameterized queries, really :)

You're probably connecting to your database via a DB-API compatible library,
I assume? Most are. If so, it's simply a matter of:

cur = con.cursor()
cur.execute("SELECT name FROM blah WHERE id = ? AND zone = ?", (my_id,
my_zone))

All DB-API compliant modules support this, though some mark the parameters
differently. That's qmark, some alternates are numeric (:1, :2, etc), some
named (:id, :zone), some format (%s, %d, etc), some pyformat, (%(id)d,
%(zone)s).

The module should provide a 'paramstyle' stating what is supported.

--S
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From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Fri Aug 14 01:17:57 2009
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 22:17:57 -0700
Subject: Format Code Repeat Counts?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

MRAB wrote:
> The shortest I can come up with is:
>     "[" + "][".join(letters) + "]"

Maybe a golf shot:
       "][".join(letters).join("[]")


--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Fri Aug 14 01:36:12 2009
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 22:36:12 -0700
Subject: i Don't get why it makes trouble
In-Reply-To: 
References: <5ddbbf79-a448-4cb0-96e8-427ab8160a78@q23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

azrael wrote:
> ... A lot of people a not aware of SQL injection. My friend from college
> asked me and a couple of other guys for Pen testing of an website. His
> SQL injection mistake made him an epic fail.

And some people are unaware of the unofficial official Python citation
for SQL injection explanations:
     http://xkcd.com/327/

--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From pfeldman at verizon.net  Fri Aug 14 01:36:37 2009
From: pfeldman at verizon.net (Dr. Phillip M. Feldman)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 22:36:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: trouble with reload
In-Reply-To: 
References: <24956946.post@talk.nabble.com>
	
Message-ID: <24965811.post@talk.nabble.com>


Actually, I've tried both of these, and I get (different) errors in both
cases:

In [1]: from mymath import *

In [2]: reload(mymath)
NameError: name 'mymath' is not defined

In [3]: reload('mymath')
TypeError: reload() argument must be module


Rami Chowdhury wrote:
> 
> Could you please clarify how you're calling it? E.g.
> 	reload('foo')
> or
> 	reload(foo)
> 
> ?
> 
> On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 12:05:26 -0700, Dr. Phillip M. Feldman  
>  wrote:
> 
>> According to the Python documentation, 'reload' reloads a previously  
>> imported
>> module (so that changes made via an external editor will be effective).
>> But, when I try to use this command, I get the following error message:
>>
>> TypeError: reload() argument must be module
>>
>> Any suggestions will be appreciated.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Rami Chowdhury
> "Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --  
> Hanlon's Razor
> 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
> 

-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/trouble-with-reload-tp24956946p24965811.html
Sent from the Python - python-list mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Aug 14 01:41:39 2009
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 07:41:39 +0200
Subject: coding for multiple versions of python
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A84F913.9090901@v.loewis.de>

> I'm guessing I need to configure cvs to copy files to both locations 
> whenever I commit. Does that sound right? Is there a better way I'm not 
> thinking of?

If the set of files doesn't change too often, you can use symlinks.
That's how Debian currently installs Python packages for multiple
versions on a single system.

Specifically, put the source code into /net/source/python/foo/*.py.
Then, on each system, put symlinks to all .py files into
lib/site-packages/foo. Then Python will place the .pyc files next
to the symlinks, not next to the actual .py files.

HTH,
Martin


From narkewoody at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 02:22:49 2009
From: narkewoody at gmail.com (Steven Woody)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 14:22:49 +0800
Subject: OptionParser How to: prog  [options] [arguments]
Message-ID: 

Hi,
I am using OptionParser, but I've not managed figure out a way to support
what I wanted command line format "prog  [options] [arguments]".
E.g., "svn ls -r123 http://hello.world".   Can I do this using OptionParser?

Thanks.

-- 
Life is the only flaw in an otherwise perfect nonexistence
   -- Schopenhauer

narke
public key at http://subkeys.pgp.net:11371 (narkewoody at gmail.com)
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From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 02:31:19 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 23:31:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: trouble with reload
References: <24956946.post@talk.nabble.com>
	 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 13, 10:36?pm, "Dr. Phillip M. Feldman" 
wrote:
> Actually, I've tried both of these, and I get (different) errors in both
> cases:
>
> In [1]: from mymath import *
>
> In [2]: reload(mymath)
> NameError: name 'mymath' is not defined
>
> In [3]: reload('mymath')
> TypeError: reload() argument must be module

Two problems here.

1. You have to call reload on an actual module object.  When you write
"from mymath import *" you are not actually binding the mytmath module
to the mymath symbol.  So, if you were to then write "print mymath"
Python would raise a NameError exception.

OTOH, if you were to write "import mymath", then the symbol mymath
would bound to the mymath module.  If you then write "print mymath",
Python would output , the module
object.  Only then can you pass it to reload.

2. If you use "from mymath import *", even if you were to reload the
mymath module (say, by importing it directly and calling reload on
that), you will find that the functions you had originally imported
will not be updated.  They will still refer to the old functions.
Why?  Because when you reload a module, it only affects that's
module's namespace.  When you import a function from a module, you are
now referencing the function from your own namespace.  Even if the
function in the module is replaced, the reference to that function in
your own namespace hasn't been replaced.

So, what do you do?

My advice is to dispense with importing functions altogether; only
import modules.  It's more typing and a bit less efficient, but it
makes everything more straightforward and consistent.


Carl Banks


From python at rcn.com  Fri Aug 14 02:34:16 2009
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 23:34:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: implementing descriptors
References: <39aff5a5-97ec-41f7-ab26-6e4d842b9c5c@r33g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

[David]
> I am new to Python and I have a question about descriptors. ?If I have
> a class as written below, is there a way to use descriptors to be
> certain that the datetime in start is always before the one in end?
>
> class foo(object):
> ? ?def __init__(self,a = None,b = None)
> ? ? ? self.start = a
> ? ? ? self.end = b
>
> from datetime import datetime
> c = datetime(2009,8,13,6,15,0)
> d = datetime(2009,8,14,12,0,0)
> afoo = foo(c,d)
>
> For instance, if the following code were run, I would like to instance
> of foo to switch the start and end times.
>
> afoo.start = datetime(2010,8,13,6,15,0)
>
> I was thinking of using the __set__ descriptor to catch the assignment
> and reverse the values if necessary, but I can't figure out how to
> determine which values is being set.

You're on the right track, but it is easier to use property() than to
write your own custom descriptor with __get__ and __set__.

class foo(object):
    def __init__(self,a = None,b = None):
        self._start = a
        self._end = b
    def get_start(self):
        return self._start
    def set_start(self, value):
        if self._end is None or value < self._end:
            self._start = value
        else:
            self._end = value
    start = property(get_start, set_start)
    def get_end(self):
        return self._end
    def set_end(self, value):
        if self._start is None or value > self._start:
            self._end = value
        else:
            self._start = value
    end = property(get_end, set_end)



Raymond



From frank at chagford.com  Fri Aug 14 03:04:37 2009
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:04:37 +0200
Subject: How to launch a function at regular time intervals ?
References: 
	
	
	
	<6ebb8c71-870c-4233-a256-a4061a1ab530@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
	<18ac9f9a-0cf2-409c-82b3-ea068f21dbf7@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 14, 12:52 am, David  wrote:
>
> Yes, I guess it would be more simple. Here is really what I am trying
> to do. I simplified the functions, but the purpose is to write some
> text in a local file every x seconds (here, I'm just writing the
> timestamp, i.e. a string representing the date & time, every 10
> seconds) and to transfer this file to a distant server via FTP every y
> seconds (20 seconds in the example below). My code is a little bit
> more complicated because each time I transfer the file, I delete the
> local file which is then recreated when data is written, but for
> simplicity I left this out in the code below. So, here is the code
> I've been using to test Frank's code. I've been struggling with using
> or not a While True loop or not, and everything I try seems to run
> into issues.
>
> import threading
> from datetime import datetime
> import ftplib
>
> class CFtpConnection:
>     """FTP Connection parameters"""
>     def __init__(self, host, port, timeout, user, passwd):
>         self.host = ""
>         self.port = 21
>         self.timeout = 60
>         self.user = ""
>         self.passwd = ""
>
> class CStoreData(threading.Thread):
>     """Write timestamp in a file every 10 seconds in separate
> thread"""
>
>     def __init__(self, timestamp):
>         threading.Thread.__init__(self)
>         self.event = threading.Event()
>         self.timestamp = timestamp
>
>     def run(self):
>         while not self.event.is_set():
>             file_handler = open("Test.txt", 'a')
>             file_handler.write(self.timestamp.strftime("%y%m%d%H%M%S
> \n"))
>             file_handler.close()
>             self.event.wait(10)
>
>     def stop(self):
>         self.event.set()
>
> class CTransferData(threading.Thread):
>     """Transfer timestamp file every 20 seconds in separate thread"""
>
>     def __init__(self, ftp_connection):
>         threading.Thread.__init__(self)
>         self.event = threading.Event()
>         self.ftp_connection = ftp_connection
>
>     def run(self):
>         while not self.event.is_set():
>             file_handler = open("Test.txt", 'r')
>             Ftp_handler = ftplib.FTP('')
>             Ftp_handler.connect(self.ftp_connection.host,
> self.ftp_connection.port, self.ftp_connection.timeout)
>             Ftp_handler.login(self.ftp_connection.user,
> self.ftp_connection.passwd)
>             Ftp_handler.storbinary("STOR Test.txt", file_handler)
>             file_handler.close()
>             Ftp_handler.close()
>             self.event.wait(20)
>
>     def stop(self):
>         self.event.set()
>
> ftp_connection = CFtpConnection("", 21, 60, "", "")
> ftp_connection.host = '127.0.0.1'
> ftp_connection.user = "admin"
> ftp_connection.passwd = "admin"
>
> while(1):
>   timestamp = datetime.now()
>   func_store_data = CStoreData(timestamp)
>   func_store_data.start()
>
>   func_transfer_data = CTransferData(ftp_connection)
>   func_transfer_data.start()
>
> func_store_data.stop()
> func_store_data.join()
>
> func_transfer_data.stop()
> func_transfer_data.join()

Hi David

I think that the main problem is your use of  while(1) (usually written as 
'while 1' BTW). The effect is that you create multiple copies of CStoreData 
and CTransferData, each running simultaneously. As you bind them to the same 
name each time, the previous one presumably gets garbage collected. I don't 
know if this effectively kills the running thread or not. Either way, this 
is not what you want to happen.

Here are some initial thoughts -

1. You say that you want the main program to continue running in the 
background. Personally I find it easier to think of the main program running 
in the foreground, and each of the functions running in the background.

2. As you speak of launching several functions, you may want to keep a list 
of them to make it easier to stop them at the end.

3. Instead of passing 'timestamp' as an argument to each function, it is 
probably better to call datatime.now() within the function itself.

Based on these thoughts, maybe your program should look something like 
this -

    running_functions = []

    while 1:
        if some_condition:  # start function to store data
            func = CStoreData()
            func.start()
            running_functions.append(func)

       if some_other_condition:  # start function to transfer data
            func = CTransferData()
            func.start()
            running_functions.append(func)

        if end_condition:  # terminate program
            break  # break out of while loop

        time.sleep(0.1)  # to avoid hogging the cpu

    # stop all running functions at end
    for func in running_functions:
        func.stop()
        func.join()

I hope this gives you some ideas.

Frank




From walkraft at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 03:05:18 2009
From: walkraft at gmail.com (casebash)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 00:05:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Nice copy in interactive terminal
References: 
	<1250153823.228153@athprx03>
Message-ID: <0dac8bc9-8f00-4f4e-bc29-b475bade7685@y10g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

I mainly develop on Linux these days, but if I ever end up doing
anything on windows I'll make sure to look at that.

On Aug 13, 6:56?pm, "Elias Fotinis \(eliasf\)" 
wrote:
> "casebash" wrote:
> > I've been wondering for a while if there exists an interactive
> > terminal which has nice copy feature (ie. I can copy code without
> > getting the >>> in front of every line).
>
> It would help if we knew what platform you're interested in -- your
> User-Agent is G2/1.0, but I don't know what that is. ?:o)
>
> On Windows, PythonWin can copy from the interactive window without the
> prompts.



From gabriel.rossetti at arimaz.com  Fri Aug 14 03:15:34 2009
From: gabriel.rossetti at arimaz.com (Gabriel Rossetti)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:15:34 +0200
Subject: socket.send : (11, 'Resource temporarily unavailable')
Message-ID: <4A850F16.4010309@arimaz.com>

Hello everyone,

I get a (11, 'Resource temporarily unavailable') error when I try to 
send a file using a socket. Is there s size limit? I tried sending a 
smaller file and ii poses no problem. Am I doing something wrong? Here 
is the code:

def sendMessage(host, port, msg):

    if isinstance(msg, unicode):
        msg = msg.encode("utf-8")
   
    sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
    sock.connect((host, port))
    sock.setblocking(0)
    totalsent = 0
    while totalsent < len(msg):
        sent = sock.send(msg[totalsent:])
        if sent == 0:
            raise RuntimeError, "socket connection broken"
        totalsent = totalsent + sent
    sock.close()

Thank you,
Gabriel


From javier.collado at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 03:18:45 2009
From: javier.collado at gmail.com (Javier Collado)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:18:45 +0200
Subject: OptionParser How to: prog  [options] [arguments]
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Hello,

I think that this isn't possible with optparse library.

However, it's possible with argparse (http://code.google.com/p/argparse/):
 http://argparse.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/doc/other-methods.html#sub-commands

It's not a standard library, but it's worth to take a look at it.

Best regards,
    Javier

2009/8/14 Steven Woody :
> Hi,
> I am using OptionParser, but I've not managed figure out a way to support
> what I wanted command line format "prog  [options] [arguments]".
> E.g., "svn ls -r123 http://hello.world".???Can?I?do?this?using?OptionParser?
> Thanks.
> --
> Life is the only flaw in an otherwise perfect nonexistence
> ? ?-- Schopenhauer
>
> narke
> public key at http://subkeys.pgp.net:11371 (narkewoody at gmail.com)
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>


From durumdara at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 03:43:02 2009
From: durumdara at gmail.com (durumdara)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 00:43:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Pygresql, and query meta informations
Message-ID: <55aceb1c-b3d9-4f9b-b8cf-d9833edb2660@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

Hi!

Pygresql, DB-API.

I search for a solution to get meta information about last query,
because I must export these infos to Delphi.

Delphi have TDataSet, and it have meta structure that must be defined
before I create it.
For char/varchar fields I must define their sizes!

Pygresql is not retreive the field sizes.

Ok, it have solution that CHAR fields values have full size; but
varchars are not.
Ok, secondary I can calc all field lengths before I export, and I can
set THIS CALCULATED size to the field, but this is data dependent.

If I have NULL only, the field size = 0. Next query get 71 to the
field len. Next query is 234...

So I wanna ask that
a.) have I some special way in Pygresql to retreive the char/varchar
field's length?
b.) if not, how to I realize this (other ways)?

Thanks for your help:
   dd



From gabriel.rossetti at arimaz.com  Fri Aug 14 03:47:50 2009
From: gabriel.rossetti at arimaz.com (Gabriel Rossetti)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:47:50 +0200
Subject: socket.send : (11, 'Resource temporarily unavailable')
In-Reply-To: <4A850F16.4010309@arimaz.com>
References: <4A850F16.4010309@arimaz.com>
Message-ID: <4A8516A6.7010309@arimaz.com>

Gabriel Rossetti wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> I get a (11, 'Resource temporarily unavailable') error when I try to 
> send a file using a socket. Is there s size limit? I tried sending a 
> smaller file and ii poses no problem. Am I doing something wrong? Here 
> is the code:
>
> def sendMessage(host, port, msg):
>
>    if isinstance(msg, unicode):
>        msg = msg.encode("utf-8")
>      sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
>    sock.connect((host, port))
>    sock.setblocking(0)
>    totalsent = 0
>    while totalsent < len(msg):
>        sent = sock.send(msg[totalsent:])
>        if sent == 0:
>            raise RuntimeError, "socket connection broken"
>        totalsent = totalsent + sent
>    sock.close()
>
> Thank you,
> Gabriel

Actually, the original code didn't have the sock.setblocking(0), the 
problem I am trying to find is that the server does have 
sock.setblocking(0) (I can't change that) and it is getting the same 
error as my client has with the sock.setblocking(0), except it gets it 
on the accept() call. I tried modifying my code to be like this :

def sendMessage(host, port, msg):
   
    if isinstance(msg, unicode):
        msg = msg.encode("utf-8")
   
    burstSize = 4096
   
    sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
    sock.connect((host, port))
    while msg:
        sent = sock.send(msg[:burstSize])
        print "Sending %d bytes..." % sent
        if sent == 0:
            raise RuntimeError, "socket connection broken"
        msg = msg[burstSize:]
    sock.close()

thinking maybe if I send small parts it would work better but this does 
not seem to change anything.
How are large msgs sent w/ a socket in python to a non-blocking server? 
The msg I'm trying to send is 175213 bytes long.

Thank,
Gabriel


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Fri Aug 14 04:11:34 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 10:11:34 +0200
Subject: socket.send : (11, 'Resource temporarily unavailable')
In-Reply-To: <4A850F16.4010309@arimaz.com>
References: <4A850F16.4010309@arimaz.com>
Message-ID: <200908141011.34272.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Friday 14 August 2009 09:15:34 Gabriel Rossetti wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> I get a (11, 'Resource temporarily unavailable') error when I try to
> send a file using a socket. Is there s size limit? I tried sending a
> smaller file and ii poses no problem. Am I doing something wrong? Here
> is the code:
>
> def sendMessage(host, port, msg):
>
>     if isinstance(msg, unicode):
>         msg = msg.encode("utf-8")
>
>     sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
>     sock.connect((host, port))
>     sock.setblocking(0)

This is the problem - if the socket does not block, it will return
the " temporarily unavailable" error when it is busy.

If you want to use it non blocking then you have to handle the
error in a try except, and loop.

- Hendrik


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Fri Aug 14 04:16:21 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 10:16:21 +0200
Subject: socket.send : (11, 'Resource temporarily unavailable')
In-Reply-To: <4A8516A6.7010309@arimaz.com>
References: <4A850F16.4010309@arimaz.com> <4A8516A6.7010309@arimaz.com>
Message-ID: <200908141016.21579.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Friday 14 August 2009 09:47:50 Gabriel Rossetti wrote:
> Gabriel Rossetti wrote:
8< ------------------------------------------
>
> Actually, the original code didn't have the sock.setblocking(0), the
> problem I am trying to find is that the server does have
> sock.setblocking(0) (I can't change that) and it is getting the same
> error as my client has with the sock.setblocking(0), except it gets it
> on the accept() call. I tried modifying my code to be like this :
>
> def sendMessage(host, port, msg):
>
>     if isinstance(msg, unicode):
>         msg = msg.encode("utf-8")
>
>     burstSize = 4096
>
>     sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
>     sock.connect((host, port))
>     while msg:
>         sent = sock.send(msg[:burstSize])
>         print "Sending %d bytes..." % sent
>         if sent == 0:
>             raise RuntimeError, "socket connection broken"
>         msg = msg[burstSize:]
>     sock.close()
>
> thinking maybe if I send small parts it would work better but this does
> not seem to change anything.
> How are large msgs sent w/ a socket in python to a non-blocking server?
> The msg I'm trying to send is 175213 bytes long.

Google for netstring, and also look at sock.sendall instead of send.

- Hendrik


From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Fri Aug 14 04:24:20 2009
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (Bearophile)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 01:24:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Plotting Quadratic Functions, pygame
References: 
Message-ID: 

Senad Ibraimoski Of Belgrade:
> Hello, I'm a new guy to this group, my professor recommend this group
> to me, because I was boring him with questions.I'm new to python, and
> I have problem plotting Quadratic Functions. Using module pygame.

Python is a tool you use to learn something else, but tools are
important, they also help shape the way you think. So tell your
teacher that questions about tools are important enough.

If your purpose is to learn something then using Pygame to plot
functions is OK. If your purpose is just to plot them, and you don't
have strange needs, then MatPlotLib can be better.

Bye,
bearophile


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Aug 14 04:34:52 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 14 Aug 2009 08:34:52 GMT
Subject: trouble with reload
References: <24956946.post@talk.nabble.com>
	
Message-ID: <0295120a$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:49:19 +0900, Terry Reedy wrote:

> Dr. Phillip M. Feldman wrote:
>> According to the Python documentation, 'reload' reloads a previously
>> imported module (so that changes made via an external editor will be
>> effective). But, when I try to use this command, I get the following
>> error message:
>> 
>> TypeError: reload() argument must be module
>> 
>> Any suggestions will be appreciated.
> 
> Besides the other answers, do not use reload. It is removed in Py3
> because it cannot be made to work as people reasonably expect.

That's a damn shame, because it is very useful for interactive use once 
you get it's quirks. Is it gone-gone or just removed from built-ins? 

If the former, would the following be a reasonable replacement?

def reload(module):
    if type(module) is not type(__builtins__):
        raise TypeError("reload() argument must be module")
    name = module.__name__
    del globals()[name]
    del sys.modules[name]
    globals()[name] = __import__(name)


It seems to work for me, but I'm not sure if I've missed something.


-- 
Steven


From rylesny at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 04:38:57 2009
From: rylesny at gmail.com (ryles)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 01:38:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python "and" behavior
References: <10da5db0-ba83-42a1-8ce8-95d13b513ca1@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <55453c36-d789-4710-8a9a-ce5dd306c7c1@h31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 13, 8:36?pm, goldtech  wrote:
> Could you explain or link me to an explanation of this?

http://docs.python.org/tutorial/datastructures.html#more-on-conditions

Give the whole tutorial a good read.


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Fri Aug 14 05:04:07 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 11:04:07 +0200
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a Serial port?
Message-ID: <200908141104.07641.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

In the past, on this  group, I have made statements that said that on Linux, 
the serial port handling somehow does not allow transmitting and receiving at 
the same time, and nobody contradicted me.

I am running into the self same issue again.

What I normally do is to open the port like this:

port = open("/dev/ttyS0","r+b",0)

and then I unblock it with:

def unblock(f):
    """Given file 'f', sets its unblock flag to true."""

    fcntl.fcntl(f.fileno(), fcntl.F_SETFL, os.O_NONBLOCK)

Then I can write a loop that uses a try-except to see if there are characters 
available, and that examines a queue to see if there is something to 
transmit, to give the appearance of full duplex functionality.

What I would really like is to have two threads - one that does blocking input 
waiting for a character, and one that examines an output queue and transmits 
the stuff it finds.

When I try to do this, it does not seem to work - as far as I can see, it is 
as if the underlying implementation is somehow single threaded - if it is 
waiting for a received character, it waits until something comes in before it 
will transmit anything.  So if you are talking to a device that does not 
respond, the whole thing freezes up waiting for a character that never comes, 
and nothing is transmitted either, despite the call to 
port.write(somestring).  The write blocks, and everything stops, waiting for 
the receipt to finish.

Is there a way to get full duplex, so that the transmit and receive are 
independent of each other?

Or are we stuck with a disk-like model that forces a sequence on reads and 
writes?

- Hendrik



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Aug 14 05:27:39 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 11:27:39 +0200
Subject: trouble with reload
In-Reply-To: <24965811.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <24956946.post@talk.nabble.com>	
	<24965811.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <4A852E0B.4070309@sequans.com>

Dr. Phillip M. Feldman wrote:
> Actually, I've tried both of these, and I get (different) errors in both
> cases:
>
> In [1]: from mymath import *
>
> In [2]: reload(mymath)
> NameError: name 'mymath' is not defined
>
> In [3]: reload('mymath')
> TypeError: reload() argument must be module
>
>   
Please don't top post :o)

1/ Do not use the 'from  import *' form, unless you don't have 
any other choice, it will set in your namespace an undefined number of 
symbols, you may get some name collisions which usually lead to very 
nasty bugs.

import mymath
reload(mymath)

will do the trick.

If you are of those lazy coders you can write

import mymath as mm
reload(mm)
mm.aFunction()

If you are using a few functions and don't what to prefix them with the 
module name you can also write
import mymath
from mymath import func1, func2, func3

# reload the functions
reload(mymath)
func1 = mymath.func1
func2 = mymath.func2
func3 = mymath.func3

JM


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Fri Aug 14 05:32:25 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 06:32:25 -0300
Subject: trouble with reload
References: <24956946.post@talk.nabble.com>
	
	<0295120a$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

En Fri, 14 Aug 2009 05:34:52 -0300, Steven D'Aprano  
 escribi?:
> On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:49:19 +0900, Terry Reedy wrote:

>> Besides the other answers, do not use reload. It is removed in Py3
>> because it cannot be made to work as people reasonably expect.
>
> That's a damn shame, because it is very useful for interactive use once
> you get it's quirks. Is it gone-gone or just removed from built-ins?

Just relocated:

p3> import imp
p3> imp.reload


-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 05:38:28 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 02:38:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: OptionParser How to: prog  [options] [arguments]
References:  
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 14, 12:18?am, Javier Collado  wrote:
> 2009/8/14 Steven Woody :
>
> > Hi,
> > I am using OptionParser, but I've not managed figure out a way to support
> > what I wanted command line format "prog  [options] [arguments]".
> > E.g., "svn ls -r123http://hello.world".   Can I do this using OptionParser?
> > Thanks.
>
> Hello,
>
> I think that this isn't possible with optparse library.

It's possible if you remove sys.argv[1] before invoking optparse.
But...


> However, it's possible with argparse (http://code.google.com/p/argparse/):
> ?http://argparse.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/doc/other-methods.html#sub-c...
>
> It's not a standard library, but it's worth to take a look at it.

It's more than worth looking at, it's a slam dunk.  It's superior to
optparse in every way I can think of.  Unless you don't want the third-
party dependency there is no reason to use optparse instead of
argparse.


Carl Banks


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Fri Aug 14 05:45:57 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 06:45:57 -0300
Subject: OptionParser How to: prog  [options] [arguments]
References: 
Message-ID: 

En Fri, 14 Aug 2009 03:22:49 -0300, Steven Woody   
escribi?:

> I am using OptionParser, but I've not managed figure out a way to support
> what I wanted command line format "prog  [options] [arguments]".
> E.g., "svn ls -r123 http://hello.world".   Can I do this using  
> OptionParser?

Extract the  yourself, and pass the remaining arguments (that is,  
sys.argv[2:]) to parser.parse_args()

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Aug 14 05:45:58 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 11:45:58 +0200
Subject: implementing descriptors
In-Reply-To: 
References: <39aff5a5-97ec-41f7-ab26-6e4d842b9c5c@r33g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4A853256.9070806@sequans.com>

Emile van Sebille wrote:
> On 8/13/2009 3:17 PM dippim said...
>> I am new to Python and I have a question about descriptors.  If I have
>> a class as written below, is there a way to use descriptors to be
>> certain that the datetime in start is always before the one in end?
>>
>> class foo(object):
>>    def __init__(self,a = None,b = None)
>>       self.start = a
>>       self.end = b
>>
>> from datetime import datetime
>> c = datetime(2009,8,13,6,15,0)
>> d = datetime(2009,8,14,12,0,0)
>> afoo = foo(c,d)
>>
>> For instance, if the following code were run, I would like to instance
>> of foo to switch the start and end times.
>>
>> afoo.start = datetime(2010,8,13,6,15,0)
>>
>> I was thinking of using the __set__ descriptor to catch the assignment
>> and reverse the values if necessary, 
>
> why not...
>
>
> class foo(object):
>    def __init__(self,a = None,b = None)
>       self.start = min(a,b)
>       self.end = max(a,b)
>
>
> Emile
>
or

class foo(object):
    def __init__(self, start, end)
       self.start = start
       self.end = end


Problem solved by design :o)

JM


From sleepy at cabbage.co.uk  Fri Aug 14 05:48:34 2009
From: sleepy at cabbage.co.uk (Sleepy Cabbage)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:48:34 GMT
Subject: get the pause status from amarok 2.1
Message-ID: 

As the title says, I'm trying to find a way to get the pause status from 
amarok 2.1.

I'm running kubuntu 9.04 with kde 4.2.2, python 2.6.2.

Thanks in advance.


From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Fri Aug 14 05:51:52 2009
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 10:51:52 +0100
Subject: A Exhibition Of Tech Geekers Incompetence: Emacs whitespace-mode
In-Reply-To: <61ef4451-d6b6-493b-b4a0-1822a901ca8d@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
References: <61ef4451-d6b6-493b-b4a0-1822a901ca8d@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Sounds like a bad case of STRIS
http://blog.dcuktec.com/2009/08/stris.html


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Fri Aug 14 06:26:55 2009
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 14 Aug 2009 10:26:55 GMT
Subject: Python "and" behavior
References: <10da5db0-ba83-42a1-8ce8-95d13b513ca1@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
	<4A84B4E2.9080300@islandtraining.com>
	
Message-ID: 

MRAB  wrote:

> Operation      Result
>|x or y|      x if x else y
>|x and y|      y if x else x
>|not x|      False if x else False
> 
>:-)
> 

That's not a terribly good definition for the 'not' operator. Try:

  |not x| False if x else True



-- 
Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com


From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Aug 14 06:54:32 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 12:54:32 +0200
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a Serial
	port?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7eku38F2gtku3U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Hendrik van Rooyen schrieb:
> In the past, on this  group, I have made statements that said that on Linux, 
> the serial port handling somehow does not allow transmitting and receiving at 
> the same time, and nobody contradicted me.
> 
> I am running into the self same issue again.
> 
> What I normally do is to open the port like this:
> 
> port = open("/dev/ttyS0","r+b",0)

How about using pyserial? With that, I never had any problems accessing 
the the serial ports, and AFAIK no duplex-problems as well. And I 
seriously doubt that these are a python-related problem - python only 
has a very thin, direct layer above the posix-calls, and doesn't do 
anything that would explain your observed behavior. The GIL is not the 
issue here either - it won't interfer with blocking IO.

Diez


From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Aug 14 06:55:07 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 12:55:07 +0200
Subject: get the pause status from amarok 2.1
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7eku4bF2gtku3U2@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Sleepy Cabbage schrieb:
> As the title says, I'm trying to find a way to get the pause status from 
> amarok 2.1.
> 
> I'm running kubuntu 9.04 with kde 4.2.2, python 2.6.2.
> 
> Thanks in advance.

Not at my linux-system right now, but dcop and the respective 
python-module should help.

Diez


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Aug 14 06:58:30 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 14 Aug 2009 10:58:30 GMT
Subject: need help calculating point between two coordinates.
References: <2d059a29-933e-4e2c-8730-f1f2688af26c@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <029533b3$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:26:54 -0700, PeteDK wrote:

> Hi there
> 
> I'am working on a route comparison tool for carpools.
> 
> The route comparison is based on 'steps' retrieved from google maps
> GDirection. These steps vary in length and i use the coordinates at the
> beginning of each "step". However, sometimes the distance of these steps
> is too long(ex. driving 30-40 km. on the freeway). Therefore i would
> like to calculate/find the coordinate located in between two given
> coordinates.
> Lets say one step starts at:
> 56.043185,9.922714
> and ends at:
> 56.234287,9.864521
> 
> I would then like to calculate the point right in the middle of these
> coordinates.

Can you assume that the coordinate system is virtually flat between those 
points? That is, are the distances small enough that the curvature of the 
earth isn't relevant?

If so, the following should be close enough:

def midpoint(a, b):
    """Return the two-dimensional point midway between points a and b."""
    x = (a[0] + b[0])/2.0
    y = (a[1] + b[1])/2.0
    return (x, y)

Otherwise, you can probably start here:

http://www.geomidpoint.com/methods.html

http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/results.html?contexts=drmath&levels=college&passed_id=51416&passed_title=College+Physics&search_cats=no&textsearch=spherical&textsearch_bool_type=and&topics=physics


-- 
Steven


From keith.hughitt at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 07:01:09 2009
From: keith.hughitt at gmail.com (pwnedd)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 04:01:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Database query execution times in Python?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <24870050.post@talk.nabble.com> 
Message-ID: <24969867.post@talk.nabble.com>


> Look up EXPLAIN

Thanks for the suggestion. I don't see any option to have EXPLAIN display
the query time though?

-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Database-query-execution-times-in-Python--tp24870050p24969867.html
Sent from the Python - python-list mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From anand at esi-india.com  Fri Aug 14 07:01:21 2009
From: anand at esi-india.com (Anand K Rayudu)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 16:31:21 +0530
Subject: How to reset document string
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <4A854401.9070500@esi-india.com>

Dear Carl,

Your ideas are extremely good, and I liked idea 2 especially, based on 
that I am considering following approach.
Eg: let us say I have module named myModule and exposing myModule.myAPI
So I will now rename myModule as _myModule and write a python layer with 
myModule

So my python layer will look like this

file name myModule.py

import _myModule

def myAPI(arg1, arg2):
    """
   @param  arg1 help string
   @param  arg2 help string
   """"
       _myModule.myAPI(arg1,arg2) # actual API

So I will provide mechanism which reads the help files and generates 
this binding python file and reload the module,
So now my python editor has the new python strings.
Also another advantages of this approach is if customer choses his own 
IDE he will still get the documentation of our APIs, by just ensuring 
these python files are in PYTHON_PATH
I think this is better approach, kindly please let me know your comments



Regards,
Anand


  

 
> On Aug 7, 2:54 am, Anand K Rayudu  wrote:
>   
>> Dear All,
>>
>> We have extended and embedded python into my our application.
>> We exposed few APIs to python using
>>
>>  Py_InitModule("myModuleName", myMethods);
>> where my methods are
>>
>> static PyMethodDef VistaDbMethods[] = {
>>    { (char *)"myAPI",_myAPICFunctionPtr ,METH_VARARGS,"usage: MyHelp)" }
>>
>> Now problem is ml_doc (Document string). Most of the time the strings
>> given by development team is not descriptive enough, so support team
>> want to enhance these docstring on need basis and supply to customer
>> The idea is we will provide get latest help option from application,
>> which will contact our webserver or allow user to pick new help
>> document,  which will re apply the help on fly.
>>  From then on our script editors will show the new enhanced help.
>> How do I achieve this.
>>     
>
> Sounds very cool.  I have a few ideas.
>
> 1. Since you say you are embedding Python in your application, the
> most direct way might be to modify the Python interpreter to allow the
> __doc__ attribute to be changed.  You'd have to modify the PyCFunction
> type (defined in methodobject.h and methodobject.c) to allow
> overriding the compiled-in doc field.
>
> 2. Instead of replacing the __doc__ attribute of the function, just
> replace the whole function with a wrapper.  So, for instance, if your
> application decides to update the docstring for myModuleName.myAPI(),
> instead of running code like this:
>
>     myModuleName.myAPI.__doc__ = 'new docstring'
>
> run code like this:
>
>     def create_wrapper(func,docstring):
>         def wrapper(*args):
>             return func(*args)
>         wrapper.__doc__ = doc
>         return wrapper
>     myModuleName.myAPI = create_wrapper(
>                  myModuleName.myAPI,'new docstring')
>
> So now myApi is a Python function with the new docstring that calls
> the old function.  (Note: if you are concerned with efficiency, it's
> possible to write a wrapper in C that has very little overhead.)
>
> This approach has minor disadvantages (such as if any code write from
> myModuleName import myAPI--it won't see the new version) but it may be
> the easiest approach.
>
> 3. Instead of customizing the __doc__ attribute, store any custom
> docstrings in a dictionary keyed by the function.
>
>     custom_doc[myModuleName.myApi] = 'new docstring'
>
> Your script editor, when looking for documentation, will first search
> in this custom area to see if the docstring has been overridden; if
> so, use that; if not, use the docstring.  Something like this:
>
>     def documentation_to_use_in_script_editor(func):
>         try:
>             return custom_doc[func]
>         except KeyError:
>             return func.__doc__
>
> That has the negative of the special docstring not being visible at an
> interactive prompt.
>
>
> I have given you some fairly vague answers, hopefully that'll give you
> some idea.  It sounds like you have an ambitious project, suggesting
> that you are probably good enough to implement the suggestions.
>
>
> Carl Banks
>   

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From matiassurdi at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 07:30:39 2009
From: matiassurdi at gmail.com (Matias)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:30:39 +0200
Subject: python-ldap and encodings
Message-ID: 

Hi!

I'm using python-ldap to create some entries on my openldap server.

The problem is that some of those entries have accented characters and 
unicode text in general.

I'm wondering if there is any example or documentation on how to add
or modify ldap objects whose values contains non-ascii characters,
such as accents, and so on. As far as I understand, those values
should be encoded using base64, but if I do that, I don't know how to
indicate in the modlist that this is the encoded value and not the
value itself.

Any help will be bery appreciated.


Matias.



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Aug 14 07:39:50 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 12:39:50 +0100
Subject: Format Code Repeat Counts?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	
	
Message-ID: <4A854D06.1010503@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Scott David Daniels wrote:
> MRAB wrote:
>> The shortest I can come up with is:
>>     "[" + "][".join(letters) + "]"
> 
> Maybe a golf shot:
>       "][".join(letters).join("[]")
> 
Even shorter:

     "["+"][".join(letters)+"]"

:-)


From matiassurdi at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 07:45:09 2009
From: matiassurdi at gmail.com (Matias)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:45:09 +0200
Subject: python-ldap and encodings
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Matias wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> I'm using python-ldap to create some entries on my openldap server.
> 
> The problem is that some of those entries have accented characters and 
> unicode text in general.
> 
> I'm wondering if there is any example or documentation on how to add
> or modify ldap objects whose values contains non-ascii characters,
> such as accents, and so on. As far as I understand, those values
> should be encoded using base64, but if I do that, I don't know how to
> indicate in the modlist that this is the encoded value and not the
> value itself.
> 
> Any help will be bery appreciated.
> 
> 
> Matias.
> 


Nevermind.... I was doing something really stupid.Don't ask please :-)



From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Fri Aug 14 08:13:46 2009
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (greg)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 00:13:46 +1200
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a Serial
	port?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7el2mqF2gi53eU1@mid.individual.net>

Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:

> port = open("/dev/ttyS0","r+b",0)
> 
> What I would really like is to have two threads - one that does blocking input 
> waiting for a character, and one that examines an output queue and transmits 
> the stuff it finds.

You can't read and write with the same stdio file object
at the same time. Odd things tend to happen if you try.

You need to open *two* file objects, one for reading
and one for writing:

   fr = open("/dev/ttyS0","rb",0)
   fw = open("/dev/ttyS0","wb",0)

and give fr to the reading thread and fw to the
writing thread.

You could also try avoiding file objects altogether
and use the raw system calls in the os module. Since
you're not using any buffering, there's little reason
to use the stdio layer. If you do that, you should be
able to use the same file descriptor for reading and
writing without any trouble.

-- 
Greg


From t.gkikopoulos at dundee.ac.uk  Fri Aug 14 08:52:11 2009
From: t.gkikopoulos at dundee.ac.uk (trias)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 05:52:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: anyone with genomewide microarray analysis experience ?
Message-ID: <24971224.post@talk.nabble.com>


Hi,

 I am trying to analyse some biological data from microarray experiments.
Different experiments have been stored in a SQL database.

 One of the things I would like to do is to fetch all data from a certain
distance from gene ATGs say 100+/- bp and calculate the bp average over all
genes over this region. 

 The microarray data has been normalised over each bp

Does anyone have some scripts I could use for this purpose. I work with
S.cerevisiae

Thank you
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/anyone-with-genomewide-microarray-analysis-experience---tp24971224p24971224.html
Sent from the Python - python-list mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From istvan.albert at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 09:13:38 2009
From: istvan.albert at gmail.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 06:13:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: anyone with genomewide microarray analysis experience ?
References: 
Message-ID: <10e21ef1-0c13-4810-bbe2-79349099c85b@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 14, 8:52?am, trias  wrote:

> Does anyone have some scripts I could use for this purpose. I work with
> S.cerevisiae

Since the largest chromosome on the yeast genome is around 4 million
bp, the easiest way to accomplish your goal is to create a list of the
same size as the chromosome, then populate this list by mapping the
genomic index to the list index.

After doing this your problem simplifies to slicing the list around
the coordinates of interest.

You'll be done in minutes.

i.


From ml at well-adjusted.de  Fri Aug 14 09:17:22 2009
From: ml at well-adjusted.de (Jochen Schulz)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:17:22 +0200
Subject: anyone with genomewide microarray analysis experience ?
In-Reply-To: <24971224.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <24971224.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <20090814131721.GM19479@wasteland.homelinux.net>

trias:
> 
>  One of the things I would like to do is to fetch all data from a certain
> distance from gene ATGs say 100+/- bp and calculate the bp average over all
> genes over this region. 

I know absolutely nothing about your problem domain, but if your
distance function is metric, you can use this:

http://well-adjusted.de/mspace.py

or that:

http://code.activestate.com/recipes/572156/

The latter (by Baerophile) is fast, the former (by me) has more
features. Baerophile has even faster implementations (non-Python) as
well.

J.
-- 
I am worried that my dreams pale in comparison beside TV docu-soaps.
[Agree]   [Disagree]
                 
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From cjw at ncf.ca  Fri Aug 14 09:23:17 2009
From: cjw at ncf.ca (Colin J. Williams)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:23:17 -0400
Subject: trouble with reload
In-Reply-To: 
References: <24956946.post@talk.nabble.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Terry Reedy wrote:
> Dr. Phillip M. Feldman wrote:
>> According to the Python documentation, 'reload' reloads a previously 
>> imported
>> module (so that changes made via an external editor will be 
>> effective). But, when I try to use this command, I get the following 
>> error message:
>>
>> TypeError: reload() argument must be module
>>
>> Any suggestions will be appreciated.
> 
> Besides the other answers, do not use reload. It is removed in Py3 
> because it cannot be made to work as people reasonably expect.
> 
> tjr
> 
It's typically a user module that needs to be reloaded.

It seems that  del sys.modules['moduleName'] has no effect.

Is there some other way of ensuring that any import goes to moduleName.py, 
instead of moduleName.pyc?

Colin W.


From alan.isaac at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 09:26:02 2009
From: alan.isaac at gmail.com (Alan G Isaac)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:26:02 GMT
Subject: csv.DictWriter.write_header()
In-Reply-To: <68b9136d-fa0b-42dc-addf-02d338da34cd@z4g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	
	<68b9136d-fa0b-42dc-addf-02d338da34cd@z4g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

> On Aug 13, 1:15 pm, Alan G Isaac  wrote:
>> I do not understand the reason for your silly, sarcastic response.


On 8/13/2009 7:58 AM John Machin apparently wrote:
> Duck typing: ask a silly question, get a silly answer.

Maybe if you learned to be a more generous reader,
fewer questions would look "silly" to you.


On 8/13/2009 7:58 AM John Machin apparently wrote:
> I can imagine that one might (without reading the source) make do with
> the published APIs:

Now you get it.

> On Aug 13, 1:15 pm, Alan G Isaac  wrote:
>> So my question was, would this improve the class from
>> a usability perspective?

On 8/13/2009 7:58 AM John Machin apparently wrote:
> Of course.

Thank you,
Alan


From david.mcwright at usbfmi.com  Fri Aug 14 09:29:22 2009
From: david.mcwright at usbfmi.com (dippim)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 06:29:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: implementing descriptors
References: <39aff5a5-97ec-41f7-ab26-6e4d842b9c5c@r33g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <564bdae4-8b2c-440b-bc18-f76a5fdc60c2@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 14, 5:45?am, Jean-Michel Pichavant 
wrote:
> Emile van Sebille wrote:
> > On 8/13/2009 3:17 PM dippim said...
> >> I am new to Python and I have a question about descriptors. ?If I have
> >> a class as written below, is there a way to use descriptors to be
> >> certain that the datetime in start is always before the one in end?
>
> >> class foo(object):
> >> ? ?def __init__(self,a = None,b = None)
> >> ? ? ? self.start = a
> >> ? ? ? self.end = b
>
> >> from datetime import datetime
> >> c = datetime(2009,8,13,6,15,0)
> >> d = datetime(2009,8,14,12,0,0)
> >> afoo = foo(c,d)
>
> >> For instance, if the following code were run, I would like to instance
> >> of foo to switch the start and end times.
>
> >> afoo.start = datetime(2010,8,13,6,15,0)
>
> >> I was thinking of using the __set__ descriptor to catch the assignment
> >> and reverse the values if necessary,
>
> > why not...
>
> > class foo(object):
> > ? ?def __init__(self,a = None,b = None)
> > ? ? ? self.start = min(a,b)
> > ? ? ? self.end = max(a,b)
>
> > Emile
>
> or
>
> class foo(object):
> ? ? def __init__(self, start, end)
> ? ? ? ?self.start = start
> ? ? ? ?self.end = end
>
> Problem solved by design :o)
>
> JM

Emile and JM,

   Thanks for the response.  However, these solution only work at
instantiation.  If I change the value of start or end after
instantiation, then I can make start or end whatever I like without
regard to order.



From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Fri Aug 14 09:38:15 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:38:15 +0200
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a Serial
	port?
In-Reply-To: <7eku38F2gtku3U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: 
	<7eku38F2gtku3U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <200908141538.15798.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Friday 14 August 2009 12:54:32 Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

>
> How about using pyserial? With that, I never had any problems accessing
> the the serial ports, and AFAIK no duplex-problems as well. And I
> seriously doubt that these are a python-related problem - python only
> has a very thin, direct layer above the posix-calls, and doesn't do
> anything that would explain your observed behavior. The GIL is not the
> issue here either - it won't interfer with blocking IO.

I will have a look at pyserial - have never used it before.

I agree that it is probably not a Python issue, and that the GIL is 
irelevant  - I was hoping that someone had already travelled the road and 
could give me a signpost.

In the meantime I have had another idea which I have also not tried yet, 
namely to do independent opens for reading and writing, to give me two file 
instances instead of one, and to try with that.  I have no idea if it would 
make any difference, or even work at all.

My normal stuff works, but I do not like it as it is essentially busy looping 
with short sleeps in between. In the eBox, it uses most of the processor just 
to move a few bytes of I/O in and out between the serial port and the TCP/IP,
and struggles to do that better than five times a second, while the message 
time on the 115200 baud port is only about 2 milliseconds.

- Hendrik


From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Aug 14 09:39:31 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:39:31 +0200
Subject: implementing descriptors
In-Reply-To: <564bdae4-8b2c-440b-bc18-f76a5fdc60c2@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
References: <39aff5a5-97ec-41f7-ab26-6e4d842b9c5c@r33g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<564bdae4-8b2c-440b-bc18-f76a5fdc60c2@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7el7ojF2gggrvU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

dippim schrieb:
> On Aug 14, 5:45 am, Jean-Michel Pichavant 
> wrote:
>> Emile van Sebille wrote:
>>> On 8/13/2009 3:17 PM dippim said...
>>>> I am new to Python and I have a question about descriptors.  If I have
>>>> a class as written below, is there a way to use descriptors to be
>>>> certain that the datetime in start is always before the one in end?
>>>> class foo(object):
>>>>    def __init__(self,a = None,b = None)
>>>>       self.start = a
>>>>       self.end = b
>>>> from datetime import datetime
>>>> c = datetime(2009,8,13,6,15,0)
>>>> d = datetime(2009,8,14,12,0,0)
>>>> afoo = foo(c,d)
>>>> For instance, if the following code were run, I would like to instance
>>>> of foo to switch the start and end times.
>>>> afoo.start = datetime(2010,8,13,6,15,0)
>>>> I was thinking of using the __set__ descriptor to catch the assignment
>>>> and reverse the values if necessary,
>>> why not...
>>> class foo(object):
>>>    def __init__(self,a = None,b = None)
>>>       self.start = min(a,b)
>>>       self.end = max(a,b)
>>> Emile
>> or
>>
>> class foo(object):
>>     def __init__(self, start, end)
>>        self.start = start
>>        self.end = end
>>
>> Problem solved by design :o)
>>
>> JM
> 
> Emile and JM,
> 
>    Thanks for the response.  However, these solution only work at
> instantiation.  If I change the value of start or end after
> instantiation, then I can make start or end whatever I like without
> regard to order.
> 

But for that, you don't need descriptors. All you need is a property:

class Foo(object):

    def __init__(self, start, end):
        self._start = start
        self._end = end


    @property
    def start(self):
        return start


    @start.setter
    def start(self, value):
        if value >= self._end:
           raise ValueError, "Tried to set a value greater than end!"
        self._start = value

    # repeat for end, switch relational op


Diez





From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Fri Aug 14 09:48:08 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:48:08 +0200
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a Serial
	port?
In-Reply-To: <7el2mqF2gi53eU1@mid.individual.net>
References: 
	<7el2mqF2gi53eU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <200908141548.08235.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Friday 14 August 2009 14:13:46 greg wrote:

> You can't read and write with the same stdio file object
> at the same time. Odd things tend to happen if you try.
>
> You need to open *two* file objects, one for reading
> and one for writing:
>
>    fr = open("/dev/ttyS0","rb",0)
>    fw = open("/dev/ttyS0","wb",0)
>
> and give fr to the reading thread and fw to the
> writing thread.

Does this actually work without somehow falling foul of the fact that 
the /dev/ttyS0 is only one thing?  - I know that there is no physical reason 
for not being able to go in and out at the same time - in my embedded stuff I 
do that routinely - but that is all assembler running on bare metal so it is  
under my own control.

>
> You could also try avoiding file objects altogether
> and use the raw system calls in the os module. Since
> you're not using any buffering, there's little reason
> to use the stdio layer. If you do that, you should be
> able to use the same file descriptor for reading and
> writing without any trouble.

Thanks for this - I now have my weekend cut out for me...

- Hendrik



From david.mcwright at usbfmi.com  Fri Aug 14 09:48:11 2009
From: david.mcwright at usbfmi.com (dippim)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 06:48:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: implementing descriptors
References: <39aff5a5-97ec-41f7-ab26-6e4d842b9c5c@r33g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 14, 2:34?am, Raymond Hettinger  wrote:
> [David]
>
>
>
> > I am new to Python and I have a question about descriptors. ?If I have
> > a class as written below, is there a way to use descriptors to be
> > certain that the datetime in start is always before the one in end?
>
> > class foo(object):
> > ? ?def __init__(self,a = None,b = None)
> > ? ? ? self.start = a
> > ? ? ? self.end = b
>
> > from datetime import datetime
> > c = datetime(2009,8,13,6,15,0)
> > d = datetime(2009,8,14,12,0,0)
> > afoo = foo(c,d)
>
> > For instance, if the following code were run, I would like to instance
> > of foo to switch the start and end times.
>
> > afoo.start = datetime(2010,8,13,6,15,0)
>
> > I was thinking of using the __set__ descriptor to catch the assignment
> > and reverse the values if necessary, but I can't figure out how to
> > determine which values is being set.
>
> You're on the right track, but it is easier to use property() than to
> write your own custom descriptor with __get__ and __set__.
>
> class foo(object):
> ? ? def __init__(self,a = None,b = None):
> ? ? ? ? self._start = a
> ? ? ? ? self._end = b
> ? ? def get_start(self):
> ? ? ? ? return self._start
> ? ? def set_start(self, value):
> ? ? ? ? if self._end is None or value < self._end:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? self._start = value
> ? ? ? ? else:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? self._end = value
> ? ? start = property(get_start, set_start)
> ? ? def get_end(self):
> ? ? ? ? return self._end
> ? ? def set_end(self, value):
> ? ? ? ? if self._start is None or value > self._start:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? self._end = value
> ? ? ? ? else:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? self._start = value
> ? ? end = property(get_end, set_end)
>
> Raymond

Raymond,
   This functionality is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!  I'll
be using this to solve my problem.

   Now that I'm on the right track, I'm still a bit confused about how
__get__ and __set__ are useful.  Admittedly, I don't need to
understand them to solve this problem, but perhaps they may be useful
in the future.  If I wanted to solve this problem using __get__ and
__set__ could it be done?

Thanks Again!


From exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  Fri Aug 14 09:58:37 2009
From: exarkun at twistedmatrix.com (exarkun at twistedmatrix.com)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:58:37 -0000
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a Serial
	port?
In-Reply-To: <200908141538.15798.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
References: 
	<7eku38F2gtku3U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<200908141538.15798.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
Message-ID: <20090814135837.11286.700809778.divmod.xquotient.174@localhost.localdomain>

On 01:38 pm, hendrik at microcorp.co.za wrote:
>On Friday 14 August 2009 12:54:32 Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
>>
>>How about using pyserial? With that, I never had any problems 
>>accessing
>>the the serial ports, and AFAIK no duplex-problems as well. And I
>>seriously doubt that these are a python-related problem - python only
>>has a very thin, direct layer above the posix-calls, and doesn't do
>>anything that would explain your observed behavior. The GIL is not the
>>issue here either - it won't interfer with blocking IO.
>
>I will have a look at pyserial - have never used it before.
>
>I agree that it is probably not a Python issue, and that the GIL is
>irelevant  - I was hoping that someone had already travelled the road 
>and
>could give me a signpost.
>
>In the meantime I have had another idea which I have also not tried 
>yet,
>namely to do independent opens for reading and writing, to give me two 
>file
>instances instead of one, and to try with that.  I have no idea if it 
>would
>make any difference, or even work at all.
>
>My normal stuff works, but I do not like it as it is essentially busy 
>looping
>with short sleeps in between. In the eBox, it uses most of the 
>processor just
>to move a few bytes of I/O in and out between the serial port and the 
>TCP/IP,
>and struggles to do that better than five times a second, while the 
>message
>time on the 115200 baud port is only about 2 milliseconds.

One strategy you might employ to get rid of the busy looping is to use 
Twisted and its serial port support.  This also addresses the full- 
duplex issue you've raised.

Jean-Paul


From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Aug 14 10:03:22 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 16:03:22 +0200
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a Serial
	port?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<7el2mqF2gi53eU1@mid.individual.net>
	
Message-ID: <7el95aF2h0d12U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Hendrik van Rooyen schrieb:
> On Friday 14 August 2009 14:13:46 greg wrote:
> 
>> You can't read and write with the same stdio file object
>> at the same time. Odd things tend to happen if you try.
>>
>> You need to open *two* file objects, one for reading
>> and one for writing:
>>
>>    fr = open("/dev/ttyS0","rb",0)
>>    fw = open("/dev/ttyS0","wb",0)
>>
>> and give fr to the reading thread and fw to the
>> writing thread.
> 
> Does this actually work without somehow falling foul of the fact that 
> the /dev/ttyS0 is only one thing?  - I know that there is no physical reason 
> for not being able to go in and out at the same time - in my embedded stuff I 
> do that routinely - but that is all assembler running on bare metal so it is  
> under my own control.
> 
>> You could also try avoiding file objects altogether
>> and use the raw system calls in the os module. Since
>> you're not using any buffering, there's little reason
>> to use the stdio layer. If you do that, you should be
>> able to use the same file descriptor for reading and
>> writing without any trouble.
> 
> Thanks for this - I now have my weekend cut out for me...

You should *really* just use pyserial. No hassle, instant satisfaction.

Diez


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Fri Aug 14 10:04:14 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 07:04:14 -0700
Subject: Python "and" behavior
In-Reply-To: <4A84B935.8080809@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <10da5db0-ba83-42a1-8ce8-95d13b513ca1@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com>	<4A84B4E2.9080300@islandtraining.com>
	<4A84B935.8080809@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <4A856EDE.6010205@stoneleaf.us>

MRAB wrote:
> Gary Herron wrote:
> 
>> goldtech wrote:
>>
>>> Could you explain or link me to an explanation of this? Been using
>>> Python for a while but not sure I understand what's happening below.
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>>>> ss=1 and "fffff"
>>>>>> ss
>>>>>>         
>>>
>>> 'fffff'
>>>  
>>>
>>>>>> ss=0 and "fffff"
>>>>>> ss
>>>>>>         
>>>
>>> 0
>>>   
>>
>>
>> Python's Boolean operators don't turn arbitrary values into True and 
>> False values.  If you use it in any conditional, you'll get the same 
>> result as if it did, but it is occasionally it's nice to get the 
>> actual values used in the "and" instead of having the value distilled 
>> down to a True/False.
>>
>>
>>  >From the Python manual:
>> These are the Boolean operations, ordered by ascending priority:
>>
>> Operation     Result     Notes
>> |x or y|     if x is false, then y, else x     (1)
>> |x and y|     if x is false, then x, else y     (1)
>> |not x|     if x is false, then |True|, else |False|     (2)
>>
> The Pythonic table would be:
> 
> Operation     Result
> |x or y|     x if x else y
> |x and y|     y if x else x
> |not x|     False if x else False
> 
> :-)

That last should be
|not x|   False if x else True

~Ethan~


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Aug 14 10:07:31 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 14 Aug 2009 07:07:31 -0700
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

In article <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656 at h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>,
Douglas Alan   wrote:
>
>My friend begs to differ with the above. It would be much better for
>debugging if Python generated a parsing error for unrecognized escape
>sequences, rather than leaving them unchanged. g++ outputs a warning
>for such escape sequences, for instance. This is what I would consider
>to be the correct behavior. (Actually, I think it should just generate
>a fatal parsing error, but a warning is okay too.)

Well, then, the usual response applies: create a patch, discuss it on
python-ideas, and see what happens.

(That is, nobody has previously complained so vociferously IIRC, and
adding a warning is certainly within the bounds of what's theoretically
acceptable.)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I saw `cout' being shifted "Hello world" times to the left and stopped
right there."  --Steve Gonedes


From invalid at invalid  Fri Aug 14 10:09:35 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:09:35 -0500
Subject: coding for multiple versions of python
References:  <4A84F913.9090901@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-14, Martin v. L?wis  wrote:

>> I'm guessing I need to configure cvs to copy files to both
>> locations whenever I commit. Does that sound right? Is there a
>> better way I'm not thinking of?

Just use one set of source files.

> If the set of files doesn't change too often, you can use symlinks.
> That's how Debian currently installs Python packages for multiple
> versions on a single system.
>
> Specifically, put the source code into /net/source/python/foo/*.py.
> Then, on each system, put symlinks to all .py files into
> lib/site-packages/foo. Then Python will place the .pyc files next
> to the symlinks, not next to the actual .py files.

Why would he need two sets of .py files?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! I'm EMOTIONAL
                                  at               now because I have
                               visi.com            MERCHANDISING CLOUT!!


From invalid at invalid  Fri Aug 14 10:12:20 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:12:20 -0500
Subject: socket.send : (11, 'Resource temporarily unavailable')
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-14, Gabriel Rossetti  wrote:

> I get a (11, 'Resource temporarily unavailable') error when I
> try to send a file using a socket. Is there s size limit?

No, there's no size limit.  However, there is a bandwidth
limit.  You can't shove bytes into the pipe faster than they
come out the other end (at least not over the long term).

> I tried sending a smaller file and ii poses no problem. Am I
> doing something wrong?

Yes.  If you want to have the socket in non-blocking mode, then
you have to catch EAGAIN and retry the operation.

> def sendMessage(host, port, msg):
>
>     if isinstance(msg, unicode):
>         msg = msg.encode("utf-8")
>    
>     sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
>     sock.connect((host, port))
>     sock.setblocking(0)
>     totalsent = 0
>     while totalsent < len(msg):
>         sent = sock.send(msg[totalsent:])
>         if sent == 0:
>             raise RuntimeError, "socket connection broken"
>         totalsent = totalsent + sent
>     sock.close()

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! I didn't order any
                                  at               WOO-WOO ... Maybe a YUBBA
                               visi.com            ... But no WOO-WOO!


From invalid at invalid  Fri Aug 14 10:17:35 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:17:35 -0500
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a
	Serial port?
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-14, Hendrik van Rooyen  wrote:

> In the past, on this group, I have made statements that said
> that on Linux, the serial port handling somehow does not allow
> transmitting and receiving at the same time,

That's not true.  Linux/Unix does and always has supported
full-duplex communications on serial ports.

> and nobody contradicted me.

Um, sorry, I guess.

> What I would really like is to have two threads - one that
> does blocking input waiting for a character, and one that
> examines an output queue and transmits the stuff it finds.

That's the traditional way of doing full-duplex serial IO on
Unix back in the day before the select/poll system calls were
available.

> When I try to do this, it does not seem to work - as far as I
> can see, it is as if the underlying implementation is somehow
> single threaded - if it is waiting for a received character,
> it waits until something comes in before it will transmit
> anything.

Nope.   I'll try to dig up an example, but that approach has
always worked for me.

> So if you are talking to a device that does not respond, the
> whole thing freezes up waiting for a character that never
> comes, and nothing is transmitted either, despite the call to 
> port.write(somestring).  The write blocks, and everything
> stops, waiting for the receipt to finish.

I've never observed that behavior.

> Is there a way to get full duplex, so that the transmit and
> receive are independent of each other?

That's the way serial ports work on Unix.

> Or are we stuck with a disk-like model that forces a sequence
> on reads and writes?

No.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Like I always say
                                  at               -- nothing can beat
                               visi.com            the BRATWURST here in
                                                   DUSSELDORF!!


From invalid at invalid  Fri Aug 14 10:19:04 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:19:04 -0500
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a
	Serial port?
References: 
	<7eku38F2gtku3U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-14, Hendrik van Rooyen  wrote:

> In the meantime I have had another idea which I have also not tried yet, 
> namely to do independent opens for reading and writing, to give me two file 
> instances instead of one, and to try with that.  I have no idea if it would 
> make any difference, or even work at all.

That should work (and shouldn't make any difference)

> My normal stuff works, but I do not like it as it is
> essentially busy looping with short sleeps in between. In the
> eBox, it uses most of the processor just to move a few bytes
> of I/O in and out between the serial port and the TCP/IP, and
> struggles to do that better than five times a second, while
> the message time on the 115200 baud port is only about 2
> milliseconds.

What platform are you using?  I suppose it's possible that
there's something broken in the serial driver for that
particular hardware.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! I feel ... JUGULAR ...
                                  at               
                               visi.com            


From invalid at invalid  Fri Aug 14 10:19:36 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:19:36 -0500
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a
	Serial port?
References: 
	<7eku38F2gtku3U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<200908141538.15798.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
	
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-14, exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  wrote:

> One strategy you might employ to get rid of the busy looping
> is to use Twisted and its serial port support.  This also
> addresses the full- duplex issue you've raised.

There are no such full-dulex issues.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! The PINK SOCKS were
                                  at               ORIGINALLY from 1952!!
                               visi.com            But they went to MARS
                                                   around 1953!!


From despen at verizon.net  Fri Aug 14 10:20:12 2009
From: despen at verizon.net (despen at verizon.net)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 14:20:12 GMT
Subject: A Exhibition Of Tech Geekers Incompetence: Emacs whitespace-mode
References: <61ef4451-d6b6-493b-b4a0-1822a901ca8d@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

"Martin P. Hellwig"  writes:

> Sounds like a bad case of STRIS
> http://blog.dcuktec.com/2009/08/stris.html

I believe the correct technical term for it is potty mouth.


From invalid at invalid  Fri Aug 14 10:28:26 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:28:26 -0500
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a
	Serial port?
References: 
	<7el2mqF2gi53eU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <1aGdnessDpUX6RjXnZ2dnUVZ_gCdnZ2d@posted.visi>

On 2009-08-14, greg  wrote:
> Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:
>
>> port = open("/dev/ttyS0","r+b",0)
>> 
>> What I would really like is to have two threads - one that
>> does blocking input waiting for a character, and one that
>> examines an output queue and transmits the stuff it finds.
>
> You can't read and write with the same stdio file object at
> the same time. Odd things tend to happen if you try.
>
> You need to open *two* file objects, one for reading and one
> for writing:
>
>    fr = open("/dev/ttyS0","rb",0)
>    fw = open("/dev/ttyS0","wb",0)

Doh!  It didn't even occur to me that somebody would use python
"file" objects for serial ports, and I completely overlooked
the fact that the OP was doing that.

In short: don't do that -- it just messes things up.

> and give fr to the reading thread and fw to the writing
> thread.
>
> You could also try avoiding file objects altogether and use
> the raw system calls in the os module.

That's definitely the way you should do serial port I/O.

> Since you're not using any buffering, there's little reason to
> use the stdio layer. If you do that, you should be able to use
> the same file descriptor for reading and writing without any
> trouble.

Do not use Python file objects.  Use the underlying file
descriptors: os.open(), os.read(), os.write().  That will
almost certainly solve your problems.

If you want examples of os.xxxxx() usage, below is the
PosixSerial.py module that I use for Linux-only applications.
For cross-platform work, use pyserial (whose Posix support is
based on the code below).


---------------------------------PosixSerial.py------------------------------
# Posix serial port class
# Copyright 2001-2009 Grant B. Edwards  

# You may use this code in any way you like so long as you
# leave this copyright notice.

# Though you are not required to, it would be nice if you send
# me a copy of bufixes or enhancements and allowed me to
# incorporate and distribute them.

import sys
import fcntl
import os
import struct
import termios
import string
import select

if string.split(sys.version)[0] > '2':
    TERMIOS = termios
else:
    import TERMIOS

# construct dictionaries for baud rate lookups

baudEnumToInt = {}
baudIntToEnum = {}
for rate in (0,50,75,110,134,150,200,300,600,1200,1800,2400,4800,9600,19200,38400,57600,115200,230400,460800,500000,576000,921600,1000000,1152000,1500000,2000000,2500000,3000000,3500000,4000000):
    try:
        i = eval('TERMIOS.B'+str(rate))
        baudEnumToInt[i]=rate
        baudIntToEnum[rate] = i
    except:
        pass

# Do not know if these are right for anything except Linux
if sys.platform[:5] == 'linux':
    TIOCMGET = 0x5415
    TIOCMBIS = 0x5416
    TIOCMBIC = 0x5417
    TIOCMSET = 0x5418
    
    TIOCM_LE   =  0x001
    TIOCM_DTR  =  0x002
    TIOCM_RTS  =  0x004
    TIOCM_ST   =  0x008
    TIOCM_SR   =  0x010
    TIOCM_CTS  =  0x020
    TIOCM_CAR  =  0x040
    TIOCM_RNG  =  0x080
    TIOCM_DSR  =  0x100
    TIOCM_CD   =  TIOCM_CAR
    TIOCM_RI   =  TIOCM_RNG
    TIOCM_OUT1 =  0x2000
    TIOCM_OUT2 =  0x4000
    
    TIOCM_zero_str = struct.pack('I',0)
    TIOCM_one_str = struct.pack('I',1)
    TIOCM_RTS_str = struct.pack('I',TIOCM_RTS)
    TIOCM_DTR_str = struct.pack('I',TIOCM_DTR)

portNotOpenError = ValueError('port not open')

class Port:
    """ An object wrapper for Posix serial ports """
    def __init__(self,path=None,noinit=False):
        self.fd = None
        if path:
            self.open(path,noinit)

    def __tcsetattr(self):
        termios.tcsetattr(self.fd,TERMIOS.TCSANOW,[self.iflag,self.oflag,self.cflag,self.lflag,self.ispeed,self.ospeed,self.cc])

    def __tcgetattr(self):
        self.iflag,self.oflag,self.cflag,self.lflag,self.ispeed,self.ospeed,self.cc = termios.tcgetattr(self.fd)

    def open(self,path,noinit):
        if self.fd:
            self.close()
        self.path = path
        self.fd = os.open(path,os.O_RDWR)
        self.__tcgetattr()
        if not noinit:
            self.iflag = 0
            self.oflag = 0
            self.lflag = 0
            self.__tcsetattr()

    def close(self):
        if self.fd:
            os.close(self.fd)
            self.fd = None
            
    def fileno(self):
        return self.fd;

    def _write(self,data):
        if not self.fd: raise portNotOpenError
        return os.write(self.fd,data)

    def write(self,data):
        if not self.fd: raise portNotOpenError
        t = len(data)
        d = data
        while t>0:
            n = os.write(self.fd,d)
            d = d[n:]
            t = t - n

    def read(self,size=1024,timeout=None):
        if not self.fd: raise portNotOpenError
        if timeout is None:
            return os.read(self.fd,size)
        else:
            r,w,e = select.select([self.fd],[],[self.fd],timeout)
            if r:
                return os.read(self.fd,size)
            else:
                raise "timeout"
                
            

    def baud(self,rate=None):
        if not self.fd: raise portNotOpenError

        if not (rate is None):
            try:
                b = baudIntToEnum[rate]
            except:
                raise ValueError,'invalid baud rate: '+str(rate)
            self.ispeed = b
            self.ospeed = b
            self.__tcsetattr()
        return baudEnumToInt[self.ispeed]

    def charLen(self,clen=None):
        if not self.fd: raise portNotOpenError
        if not clen is None:
            self.cflag = self.cflag & ~TERMIOS.CSIZE
            if clen == 8:
                self.cflag = self.cflag | TERMIOS.CS8
            elif clen == 7:
                self.cflag = self.cflag | TERMIOS.CS7
            elif clen == 6:
                self.cflag = self.cflag | TERMIOS.CS6
            elif clen == 5:
                self.cflag = self.cflag | TERMIOS.CS5
            else:
                raise ValueError,'invalid char len: '+str(clen)
            self.__tcsetattr()
        cs = self.cflag & TERMIOS.CSIZE
        if   cs == TERMIOS.CS8: 
            return 8
        elif cs == TERMIOS.CS7: 
            return 7
        elif cs == TERMIOS.CS6: 
            return 6
        elif cs == TERMIOS.CS5: 
            return 5
        else: 
            raise ValueError,'char len invalid'
            
    def parity(self,par=None):
        if not self.fd: raise portNotOpenError

        if not par is None:
            self.cflag = self.cflag & ~(TERMIOS.PARENB|TERMIOS.PARODD)
            if par == 'none':
                pass
            elif par == 'even':
                self.cflag = self.cflag | (TERMIOS.PARENB)
            elif par == 'odd':
                self.cflag = self.cflag | (TERMIOS.PARENB|TERMIOS.PARODD)
            else:
                raise ValueError,'invalid parity: '+str(par)
            self.__tcsetattr()
        if (self.cflag & TERMIOS.PARENB) == 0:
            return 'none'
        elif self.cflag & TERMIOS.PARODD:
            return 'odd'
        else:
            return 'even'

    def xonxoff(self,enable=None):
        if not self.fd: raise portNotOpenError
        if not enable is None:
            if enable:
                self.iflag = self.iflag | (TERMIOS.IXON|TERMIOS.IXOFF)
            else:
                self.iflag = self.iflag & ~(TERMIOS.IXON|TERMIOS.IXOFF)
            self.__tcsetattr()
        return (self.iflag & (TERMIOS.IXON|TERMIOS.IXOFF)) == (TERMIOS.IXON|TERMIOS.IXOFF)

    def rtscts(self,enable=None):
        if not self.fd: raise portNotOpenError
        if not enable is None:
            if enable:
                self.cflag = self.cflag | TERMIOS.CRTSCTS
            else:
                self.cflag = self.cflag & ~TERMIOS.CRTSCTS
            self.__tcsetattr()
        return (self.cflag & TERMIOS.CRTSCTS) != 0
        
    def cook(self,enable=None):
        if not self.fd: raise portNotOpenError
        if not enable is None:
            self.iflag = 0
            self.oflag = 0
            if enable:
                self.lflag = self.lflag | TERMIOS.ICANON
            else:
                self.lflag = self.lflag & ~TERMIOS.ICANON
            self.__tcsetattr()
        return (self.lflag & TERMIOS.ICANON) != 0

    def echo(self,enable=None):
        if not self.fd:
            raise portNotOpenError
        if not enable is None:
            self.iflag = 0
            self.oflag = 0
            if enable:
                self.lflag = self.lflag | TERMIOS.ECHO
            else:
                self.lflag = self.lflag & ~TERMIOS.ECHO
            self.__tcsetattr()
        return (self.lflag & TERMIOS.ECHO) != 0

    def __handleiflag(self,enable,mask):
        if not self.fd:
            raise portNotOpenError
        if not enable is None:
            if enable:
                self.iflag |= mask
            else:
                self.iflag &= ~mask
            self.__tcsetattr()
        return (self.iflag & mask) != 0

    def ignbrk(self,enable=None):
        return self.__handleiflag(enable,TERMIOS.IGNBRK)
    
    def parmrk(self,enable=None):
        return self.__handleiflag(enable,TERMIOS.PARMRK)
    
    def ignpar(self,enable=None):
        return self.__handleiflag(enable,TERMIOS.IGNPAR)
    
    def brkint(self,enable=None):
        return self.__handleiflag(enable,TERMIOS.BRKINT)

    def flushInput(self):
        if not self.fd:
            raise portNotOpenError
        termios.tcflush(self.fd,TERMIOS.TCIFLUSH)

    def flushOutput(self):
        if not self.fd:
            raise portNotOpenError
        termios.tcflush(self.fd,TERMIOS.TCOFLUSH)

    def flushAll(self):
        self.flushInput()
        self.flushOutput()
        
    def sendBreak(self,howlong=0):
        if not self.fd:
            raise portNotOpenError
        termios.tcsendbreak(self.fd,howlong)

    def drainOutput(self):
        if not self.fd: raise portNotOpenError
        termios.tcdrain(self.fd)

    def vmin(self,vm=None):
        if not self.fd: raise portNotOpenError
        if not vm is None:
            if vm<0 or vm>255:
                raise ValueError,'invalid vmin: '+str(vm)
            self.cc[TERMIOS.VMIN] = vm
            self.__tcsetattr()
        return self.cc[TERMIOS.VMIN]

    def vtime(self,vt=None):
        if not self.fd: raise portNotOpenError
        if not vt is None:
            if vt<0 or vt>255:
                raise ValueError,'invalid vtime: '+str(vt)
            self.cc[TERMIOS.VTIME] = vt
            self.__tcsetattr()
        return self.cc[TERMIOS.VTIME]

    def nonblocking(self):
        if not self.fd:
            raise portNotOpenError
        fcntl.fcntl(self.fd,fcntl.F_SETFL,os.O_NONBLOCK)

    def txCount(self):
        s = fcntl.ioctl(self.fd,termios.TIOCOUTQ,TIOCM_zero_str)
        return struct.unpack('I',s)[0]

    def rxCount(self):
        s = fcntl.ioctl(self.fd,termios.TIOCINQ,TIOCM_zero_str)
        return struct.unpack('I',s)[0]
    
    def resetRM(self,value):
        if value:
            v = TIOCM_one_str
        else:
            v = TIOCM_zero_str
        fcntl.ioctl(self.fd,0x525005,v)
    
    if sys.platform[:5] == 'linux':

        def DSR(self):
            if not self.fd: raise portNotOpenError
            s = fcntl.ioctl(self.fd,TIOCMGET,TIOCM_zero_str)
            return bool(struct.unpack('I',s)[0] & TIOCM_DSR)

        def CD(self):
            if not self.fd: raise portNotOpenError
            s = fcntl.ioctl(self.fd,TIOCMGET,TIOCM_zero_str)
            return bool(struct.unpack('I',s)[0] & TIOCM_CD)
            
        def RI(self):
            if not self.fd: raise portNotOpenError
            s = fcntl.ioctl(self.fd,TIOCMGET,TIOCM_zero_str)
            return bool(struct.unpack('I',s)[0] & TIOCM_RI)
    
    
        def CTS(self):
            if not self.fd: raise portNotOpenError
            s = fcntl.ioctl(self.fd,TIOCMGET,TIOCM_zero_str)
            return bool(struct.unpack('I',s)[0] & TIOCM_CTS)
    
    
        def DTR(self,on=None):
            if not self.fd: raise portNotOpenError
            if not on is None:
                if on:
                    fcntl.ioctl(self.fd,TIOCMBIS,TIOCM_DTR_str)
                else:
                    fcntl.ioctl(self.fd,TIOCMBIC,TIOCM_DTR_str)
            s = fcntl.ioctl(self.fd,TIOCMGET,TIOCM_zero_str)
            return bool(struct.unpack('I',s)[0] & TIOCM_DTR)

        
        def RTS(self,on=None):
            if not self.fd: raise portNotOpenError
            if not on is None:
                if on:
                    fcntl.ioctl(self.fd,TIOCMBIS,TIOCM_RTS_str)
                else:
                    fcntl.ioctl(self.fd,TIOCMBIC,TIOCM_RTS_str)
            s = fcntl.ioctl(self.fd,TIOCMGET,TIOCM_zero_str)
            return bool(struct.unpack('I',s)[0] & TIOCM_RTS)
    
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Maybe I should have
                                  at               asked for my Neutron Bomb
                               visi.com            in PAISLEY --


From exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  Fri Aug 14 10:40:06 2009
From: exarkun at twistedmatrix.com (exarkun at twistedmatrix.com)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 14:40:06 -0000
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a Serial
	port?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<7eku38F2gtku3U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<200908141538.15798.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
	
	
Message-ID: <20090814144006.11286.1931874476.divmod.xquotient.178@localhost.localdomain>

On 02:19 pm, invalid at invalid wrote:
>On 2009-08-14, exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  
>wrote:
>>One strategy you might employ to get rid of the busy looping
>>is to use Twisted and its serial port support.  This also
>>addresses the full- duplex issue you've raised.
>
>There are no such full-dulex issues.

There was a perceived issues.  Obviously it's possible to do full-duplex 
with Linux's serial port support (and all the other major platforms too, 
as far as I know), as long as you know how. :)  Twisted makes the how a 
lot simpler.

Jean-Paul


From davea at ieee.org  Fri Aug 14 10:48:00 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 10:48:00 -0400
Subject: implementing descriptors
In-Reply-To: 
References: <39aff5a5-97ec-41f7-ab26-6e4d842b9c5c@r33g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>	
	
Message-ID: <4A857920.1000008@ieee.org>

dippim wrote:
> On Aug 14, 2:34 am, Raymond Hettinger  wrote:
>   
>> [David]
>>
>>
>>
>>     
>>> I am new to Python and I have a question about descriptors.  If I have
>>> a class as written below, is there a way to use descriptors to be
>>> certain that the datetime in start is always before the one in end?
>>>       
>>> class foo(object):
>>>    def __init__(self,a =one,b = None)
>>>       self.start =
>>>       self.end =
>>>       
>>> from datetime import datetime
>>> c =atetime(2009,8,13,6,15,0)
>>> d =atetime(2009,8,14,12,0,0)
>>> afoo =oo(c,d)
>>>       
>>> For instance, if the following code were run, I would like to instance
>>> of foo to switch the start and end times.
>>>       
>>> afoo.start =atetime(2010,8,13,6,15,0)
>>>       
>>> I was thinking of using the __set__ descriptor to catch the assignment
>>> and reverse the values if necessary, but I can't figure out how to
>>> determine which values is being set.
>>>       
>> You're on the right track, but it is easier to use property() than to
>> write your own custom descriptor with __get__ and __set__.
>>
>> class foo(object):
>>     def __init__(self,a =one,b = None):
>>         self._start =
>>         self._end =
>>     def get_start(self):
>>         return self._start
>>     def set_start(self, value):
>>         if self._end is None or value < self._end:
>>             self._start =alue
>>         else:
>>             self._end =alue
>>     start =roperty(get_start, set_start)
>>     def get_end(self):
>>         return self._end
>>     def set_end(self, value):
>>         if self._start is None or value > self._start:
>>             self._end =alue
>>         else:
>>             self._start =alue
>>     end =roperty(get_end, set_end)
>>
>> Raymond
>>     
>
> Raymond,
>    This functionality is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!  I'll
> be using this to solve my problem.
>
>    Now that I'm on the right track, I'm still a bit confused about how
> __get__ and __set__ are useful.  Admittedly, I don't need to
> understand them to solve this problem, but perhaps they may be useful
> in the future.  If I wanted to solve this problem using __get__ and
> __set__ could it be done?
>
> Thanks Again!
>
>   
DANGER- WILL ROBINSON!

Don't use this code as-is.  There is a nasty surprise waiting for the 
caller when he sets start and end, and discovers that one of them gets 
thrown out, and an old value still remains.

obj= foo(3, 5)
obj.start = 8
obj.end = 12
print obj.start, obj.end

will print out  3, 12.    Not what the caller expected.

Four fixes, in order of preference:
0) Trust your user to read and obey your docstrings.  This was what JM 
was implying, by changing the names of the formal parameters.
1)  make a new method that sets both values, making these two properties 
readonly.  That new method would make sure the two parameters are 
self-consistent.  Making the actual values readonly can be done with a 
descriptor as well, or even a decorator.
2) Raise an exception in the getter methods if they're out of order
3) do the min/max logic on the getter methods, but I don't like that one 
at all.

DaveA



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Aug 14 10:49:47 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 16:49:47 +0200
Subject: callable virtual method
Message-ID: <4A85798B.6020501@sequans.com>

Hi fellows,

Does anyone know a way to write virtual methods (in one virtual class) 
that will raise an exception only if called without being overridden ?
Currently in the virtual method I'm checking that the class of the 
instance calling the method has defined that method as well.

Example:

class Stream(object):
    """Interface of all stream objects"""
    def resetStats(self):
        """Reset the stream statistics. All values a zeroed except the 
date."""
        _log.info('Reset statistics of %s' % self)
        if self.__class__.resetStats == Stream.resetStats:
            raise NotImplementedError()

It works but it's tedious, I have to add these 2 lines to every virtual 
method, changing the content of the 2 lines.

Maybe there is a nice/builtin way to do so (python 2.4)

JM


From davea at ieee.org  Fri Aug 14 10:53:35 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 10:53:35 -0400
Subject: coding for multiple versions of python
In-Reply-To: 
References:  <4A84F913.9090901@v.loewis.de>
	
Message-ID: <4A857A6F.5010401@ieee.org>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2009-08-14, Martin v. L?wis  wrote:
>
>   
>>> I'm guessing I need to configure cvs to copy files to both
>>> locations whenever I commit. Does that sound right? Is there a
>>> better way I'm not thinking of?
>>>       
>
> Just use one set of source files.
>
>   
>> If the set of files doesn't change too often, you can use symlinks.
>> That's how Debian currently installs Python packages for multiple
>> versions on a single system.
>>
>> Specifically, put the source code into /net/source/python/foo/*.py.
>> Then, on each system, put symlinks to all .py files into
>> lib/site-packages/foo. Then Python will place the .pyc files next
>> to the symlinks, not next to the actual .py files.
>>     
>
> Why would he need two sets of .py files?
>
>   
I can't speak for Martin, but his description doesn't have two sets of 
.py files, but two sets of symlinks pointing to the same .py files.  
It's the .pyc files that exist in two forms, since those are version 
dependent.

He's assuming:
    1) an OS that supports symlinks
    2) two versions of Python on same system
    3) one set of pure-python sources that want to stay in synch for 
both versions.




From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Fri Aug 14 11:04:26 2009
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 08:04:26 -0700
Subject: Format Code Repeat Counts?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 		
	
Message-ID: <8YGdnWA4YPxq5xjXnZ2dnUVZ_hti4p2d@pdx.net>

MRAB wrote:
> Scott David Daniels wrote:
>> MRAB wrote:
>>> The shortest I can come up with is:
>>>     "[" + "][".join(letters) + "]"
>>
>> Maybe a golf shot:
>>       "][".join(letters).join("[]")
>>
> Even shorter:
> 
>     "["+"][".join(letters)+"]"
> 
> :-)
I was going by PEP8 rules. ;-)

--Scott David Daniels
Scott David Daniels at Acm.Org


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Aug 14 11:24:42 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 14 Aug 2009 15:24:42 GMT
Subject: trouble with reload
References: <24956946.post@talk.nabble.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <02957215$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:23:17 -0400, Colin J. Williams wrote:

> It's typically a user module that needs to be reloaded.

What's a user module?


> It seems that  del sys.modules['moduleName'] has no effect.

sys.modules is just a dictionary, I find it hard to believe that deleting 
from it has no effect. It works for me:

>>> import sys
>>> import math
>>> 'math' in sys.modules
True
>>> del sys.modules['math']
>>> 'math' in sys.modules
False

What behaviour do you get?


Of course deleting the math module from the cache doesn't do anything to 
the math module in your namespace:

>>> math

>>> del math
>>> math
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
NameError: name 'math' is not defined

Of course deleting the module (or reloading it) doesn't have any effect 
on any objects you already have:


>>> import math
>>> func = math.sin
>>> del sys.modules['math']
>>> del math
>>> math.sin(1.2)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
NameError: name 'math' is not defined
>>> func(1.2)
0.93203908596722629




> Is there some other way of ensuring that any import goes to
> moduleName.py, instead of moduleName.pyc?

Delete moduleName.pyc.

Make sure the .pyc file doesn't exist in the first place.

Make sure the last modification date of the .py file is newer than the 
modification date of the .pyc file.



-- 
Steven


From charles at declareSub.com  Fri Aug 14 11:26:09 2009
From: charles at declareSub.com (Charles Yeomans)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 11:26:09 -0400
Subject: Programming by Contract
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4A7A15CD.9090306@stoneleaf.us> <4A81C6B8.7010605@stoneleaf.us>
	
	
Message-ID: 


On Aug 14, 2009, at 12:09 AM, Scott David Daniels wrote:

> Charles Yeomans wrote:
>> On Aug 11, 2009, at 3:30 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
>>> Ethan Furman wrote:
>>>> Greetings!
>>>> I have seen posts about the assert statement and PbC (or maybe it  
>>>> was DbC), and I just took a very brief look at pycontract (http://www.wayforward.net/pycontract/ 
>>>> ) and now I have at least one question:  Is this basically  
>>>> another way of thinking about unit testing, or is the idea of PbC  
>>>> more along the lines of *always* checking the input/output of  
>>>> functions to ensure they are correct?  (*Contstant vigilance!* as  
>>>> Prof Moody would say ;)
>>>> I know asserts can be turned off, so they obviously won't work  
>>>> for the latter case, and having seen the sample of pycontract it  
>>>> seems it only does its thing during debugging.
>>>> So is Design (Programming) by Contract a fancy way of saying  
>>>> "Document your inputs/outputs!" or is there more to it?
>>>> ~Ethan~
>>>
>>> Hmmm...
>>>
>>> Well, from the (apparently) complete lack of interest, I shall  
>>> take away the (better?) documentation ideas and unit testing  
>>> ideas, and not worry about the rest.  :)
>>>
>>>
>> Design by contract is complementary to unit testing (I notice that  
>> the author of PEP 316 appears confused about this).  DbC is,  
>> roughly speaking, about explicit allocation of responsibility.   
>> Consider this contrived example.
>> def foo(s):
>>    require(s is not None)
>>    //code
>>    ensure(hasattr(returnValue, '__iter__'))
>
> yo might want two flags, REQUIRE_OFF, and ENSURE_ON that control
> testing, and change the code above to:
>      require(REQUIRE_OFF or s is not None)
>      //code
>      ensure(ENSURE_OFF or hasattr(returnValue, '__iter__'))
>
> Python has no good way to turn off argument calculation by
> manipulating function definition (at least that I know of).
>

For this purpose, it had occurred to me to do something like the  
following.

def require(condition):
     if condition:
         return True
     else:
	raise PreconditionFailure


def foo(s):
    assert require(s is not None)


Then it occurred to me to actually read the assert documentation,  
where I learned that one can pass a second expression to assert. So  
instead one might write

assert precondition, "PreconditionFailure"

though I think I prefer the former.


Charles Yeomans 
-------------- next part --------------
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From david.mcwright at usbfmi.com  Fri Aug 14 11:39:25 2009
From: david.mcwright at usbfmi.com (dippim)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 08:39:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: implementing descriptors
References: <39aff5a5-97ec-41f7-ab26-6e4d842b9c5c@r33g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	 
	 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 14, 10:48?am, Dave Angel  wrote:
> dippim wrote:
> > On Aug 14, 2:34 am, Raymond Hettinger  wrote:
>
> >> [David]
>
> >>> I am new to Python and I have a question about descriptors. ?If I have
> >>> a class as written below, is there a way to use descriptors to be
> >>> certain that the datetime in start is always before the one in end?
>
> >>> class foo(object):
> >>> ? ?def __init__(self,a =one,b = None)
> >>> ? ? ? self.start =
> >>> ? ? ? self.end =
>
> >>> from datetime import datetime
> >>> c =atetime(2009,8,13,6,15,0)
> >>> d =atetime(2009,8,14,12,0,0)
> >>> afoo =oo(c,d)
>
> >>> For instance, if the following code were run, I would like to instance
> >>> of foo to switch the start and end times.
>
> >>> afoo.start =atetime(2010,8,13,6,15,0)
>
> >>> I was thinking of using the __set__ descriptor to catch the assignment
> >>> and reverse the values if necessary, but I can't figure out how to
> >>> determine which values is being set.
>
> >> You're on the right track, but it is easier to use property() than to
> >> write your own custom descriptor with __get__ and __set__.
>
> >> class foo(object):
> >> ? ? def __init__(self,a =one,b = None):
> >> ? ? ? ? self._start =
> >> ? ? ? ? self._end =
> >> ? ? def get_start(self):
> >> ? ? ? ? return self._start
> >> ? ? def set_start(self, value):
> >> ? ? ? ? if self._end is None or value < self._end:
> >> ? ? ? ? ? ? self._start =alue
> >> ? ? ? ? else:
> >> ? ? ? ? ? ? self._end =alue
> >> ? ? start =roperty(get_start, set_start)
> >> ? ? def get_end(self):
> >> ? ? ? ? return self._end
> >> ? ? def set_end(self, value):
> >> ? ? ? ? if self._start is None or value > self._start:
> >> ? ? ? ? ? ? self._end =alue
> >> ? ? ? ? else:
> >> ? ? ? ? ? ? self._start =alue
> >> ? ? end =roperty(get_end, set_end)
>
> >> Raymond
>
> > Raymond,
> > ? ?This functionality is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks! ?I'll
> > be using this to solve my problem.
>
> > ? ?Now that I'm on the right track, I'm still a bit confused about how
> > __get__ and __set__ are useful. ?Admittedly, I don't need to
> > understand them to solve this problem, but perhaps they may be useful
> > in the future. ?If I wanted to solve this problem using __get__ and
> > __set__ could it be done?
>
> > Thanks Again!
>
> DANGER- WILL ROBINSON!
>
> Don't use this code as-is. ?There is a nasty surprise waiting for the
> caller when he sets start and end, and discovers that one of them gets
> thrown out, and an old value still remains.
>
> obj= foo(3, 5)
> obj.start = 8
> obj.end = 12
> print obj.start, obj.end
>
> will print out ?3, 12. ? ?Not what the caller expected.

You're right about this and I appreciate the warning, but I think what
Raymond was going for was directional accuracy without a great deal of
his time wasted on details.  The explanation served the purpose of
moving me forward using property() and I'm thankful for it.

>
> Four fixes, in order of preference:
> 0) Trust your user to read and obey your docstrings. ?This was what JM
> was implying, by changing the names of the formal parameters.

Considering I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer, I don't wish to
start a philosophical discussion about the relative aptitude and
capabilities of the people who might use a class I build.  However, I
will say that as this particular requirement is imposed on this class
by the writer, shouldn't it be the writer's responsibility to enforce
it, especially, when the cost of enforcement is so low?

> 1) ?make a new method that sets both values, making these two properties
> readonly. ?That new method would make sure the two parameters are
> self-consistent. ?Making the actual values readonly can be done with a
> descriptor as well, or even a decorator.

> 2) Raise an exception in the getter methods if they're out of order
> 3) do the min/max logic on the getter methods, but I don't like that one
> at all.
>
> DaveA



From david.mcwright at usbfmi.com  Fri Aug 14 11:41:28 2009
From: david.mcwright at usbfmi.com (dippim)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 08:41:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: implementing descriptors
References: <39aff5a5-97ec-41f7-ab26-6e4d842b9c5c@r33g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	 
	 
	
Message-ID: <85502415-f861-43ab-8827-4184952d8bea@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 14, 10:48?am, Dave Angel  wrote:
> dippim wrote:
> > On Aug 14, 2:34 am, Raymond Hettinger  wrote:
>
> >> [David]
>
> >>> I am new to Python and I have a question about descriptors. ?If I have
> >>> a class as written below, is there a way to use descriptors to be
> >>> certain that the datetime in start is always before the one in end?
>
> >>> class foo(object):
> >>> ? ?def __init__(self,a =one,b = None)
> >>> ? ? ? self.start =
> >>> ? ? ? self.end =
>
> >>> from datetime import datetime
> >>> c =atetime(2009,8,13,6,15,0)
> >>> d =atetime(2009,8,14,12,0,0)
> >>> afoo =oo(c,d)
>
> >>> For instance, if the following code were run, I would like to instance
> >>> of foo to switch the start and end times.
>
> >>> afoo.start =atetime(2010,8,13,6,15,0)
>
> >>> I was thinking of using the __set__ descriptor to catch the assignment
> >>> and reverse the values if necessary, but I can't figure out how to
> >>> determine which values is being set.
>
> >> You're on the right track, but it is easier to use property() than to
> >> write your own custom descriptor with __get__ and __set__.
>
> >> class foo(object):
> >> ? ? def __init__(self,a =one,b = None):
> >> ? ? ? ? self._start =
> >> ? ? ? ? self._end =
> >> ? ? def get_start(self):
> >> ? ? ? ? return self._start
> >> ? ? def set_start(self, value):
> >> ? ? ? ? if self._end is None or value < self._end:
> >> ? ? ? ? ? ? self._start =alue
> >> ? ? ? ? else:
> >> ? ? ? ? ? ? self._end =alue
> >> ? ? start =roperty(get_start, set_start)
> >> ? ? def get_end(self):
> >> ? ? ? ? return self._end
> >> ? ? def set_end(self, value):
> >> ? ? ? ? if self._start is None or value > self._start:
> >> ? ? ? ? ? ? self._end =alue
> >> ? ? ? ? else:
> >> ? ? ? ? ? ? self._start =alue
> >> ? ? end =roperty(get_end, set_end)
>
> >> Raymond
>
> > Raymond,
> > ? ?This functionality is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks! ?I'll
> > be using this to solve my problem.
>
> > ? ?Now that I'm on the right track, I'm still a bit confused about how
> > __get__ and __set__ are useful. ?Admittedly, I don't need to
> > understand them to solve this problem, but perhaps they may be useful
> > in the future. ?If I wanted to solve this problem using __get__ and
> > __set__ could it be done?
>
> > Thanks Again!
>
> DANGER- WILL ROBINSON!
>
> Don't use this code as-is. ?There is a nasty surprise waiting for the
> caller when he sets start and end, and discovers that one of them gets
> thrown out, and an old value still remains.
>
> obj= foo(3, 5)
> obj.start = 8
> obj.end = 12
> print obj.start, obj.end
>
> will print out ?3, 12. ? ?Not what the caller expected.

You're right about this and I appreciate the warning, but I think what
Raymond was going for was directional accuracy without a great deal of
his time wasted on details.  The explanation served the purpose of
moving me forward using property() and I'm thankful for it.

>
> Four fixes, in order of preference:
> 0) Trust your user to read and obey your docstrings. ?This was what JM
> was implying, by changing the names of the formal parameters.

Considering I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer, I don't wish to
start a philosophical discussion about the relative aptitude and
capabilities of the people who might use a class I build.  However, I
will say that as this particular requirement is imposed on this class
by the writer, shouldn't it be the writer's responsibility to enforce
it, especially, when the cost of enforcement is so low?

> 1) ?make a new method that sets both values, making these two properties
> readonly. ?That new method would make sure the two parameters are
> self-consistent. ?Making the actual values readonly can be done with a
> descriptor as well, or even a decorator.

> 2) Raise an exception in the getter methods if they're out of order
> 3) do the min/max logic on the getter methods, but I don't like that one
> at all.
>
> DaveA



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Aug 14 11:49:52 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 16:49:52 +0100
Subject: callable virtual method
In-Reply-To: <4A85798B.6020501@sequans.com>
References: <4A85798B.6020501@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <4A8587A0.6040008@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> Hi fellows,
> 
> Does anyone know a way to write virtual methods (in one virtual class) 
> that will raise an exception only if called without being overridden ?
> Currently in the virtual method I'm checking that the class of the 
> instance calling the method has defined that method as well.
> 
> Example:
> 
> class Stream(object):
>    """Interface of all stream objects"""
>    def resetStats(self):
>        """Reset the stream statistics. All values a zeroed except the 
> date."""
>        _log.info('Reset statistics of %s' % self)
>        if self.__class__.resetStats == Stream.resetStats:
>            raise NotImplementedError()
> 
> It works but it's tedious, I have to add these 2 lines to every virtual 
> method, changing the content of the 2 lines.
> 
> Maybe there is a nice/builtin way to do so (python 2.4)
> 
Why are you checking which class it's in? The method in the base class
will be called only if it hasn't been overridden in the subclass.


From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Aug 14 11:50:47 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 17:50:47 +0200
Subject: callable virtual method
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7elfenF2gmdggU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Jean-Michel Pichavant schrieb:
> Hi fellows,
> 
> Does anyone know a way to write virtual methods (in one virtual class) 
> that will raise an exception only if called without being overridden ?
> Currently in the virtual method I'm checking that the class of the 
> instance calling the method has defined that method as well.
> 
> Example:
> 
> class Stream(object):
>    """Interface of all stream objects"""
>    def resetStats(self):
>        """Reset the stream statistics. All values a zeroed except the 
> date."""
>        _log.info('Reset statistics of %s' % self)
>        if self.__class__.resetStats == Stream.resetStats:
>            raise NotImplementedError()
> 
> It works but it's tedious, I have to add these 2 lines to every virtual 
> method, changing the content of the 2 lines.
> 
> Maybe there is a nice/builtin way to do so (python 2.4)

Python has no concept of "virtual" methods. A simple


class Stream(object):


    def resetStats(self):
        raise NotImplemented


is all you need. Once a subclass overrides resetStats, that 
implementatino is used.

Additionally, there are modules such as zope.interface out there, that 
let you define more formally what an interface is, and declare who's 
implementing it. I don't used this myself though, so I can't really 
comment to which extend it e.g. warns you if you subclass *without* 
implementing.

Diez


From alan.isaac at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 11:54:54 2009
From: alan.isaac at gmail.com (Alan G Isaac)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:54:54 GMT
Subject: retrieve item from nested list given index tuple
Message-ID: 

`lst` is a nested list

`tpl` is the indexes for an item in the list

What is the nice way to retrieve the item?
(Speedy access is nice.)

I don't want to use NumPy, but I'd like somehow
to avoid an explicit loop.  I did consider using
eval.  E.g., eval('lst' + '[%d]'*len(tpl)%tpl).
It works but seems rather ugly.  I kind of like
reduce(list.__getitem__, tpl, lst) but the
reliance on reduce remains controversial enough
to see i removed from the Python 3 built-ins ...

Thanks,
Alan Isaac


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Aug 14 11:56:27 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 14 Aug 2009 15:56:27 GMT
Subject: callable virtual method
References: 
Message-ID: <02957986$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 16:49:47 +0200, Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:

> Hi fellows,
> 
> Does anyone know a way to write virtual methods (in one virtual class)
> that will raise an exception only if called without being overridden ?
> Currently in the virtual method I'm checking that the class of the
> instance calling the method has defined that method as well.

I'm not entirely sure of the terminology -- is this the same as an 
abstract base class? Googling has not enlightened me. Given your example, 
it seems to be.


> Example:
> 
> class Stream(object):
>     """Interface of all stream objects"""
>     def resetStats(self):
>         """Reset the stream statistics. All values a zeroed except the
> date."""
>         _log.info('Reset statistics of %s' % self)
>         if self.__class__.resetStats == Stream.resetStats:
>             raise NotImplementedError()

The usual idiom I've seen for abstract methods is to simplify the check, 
and to put it *before* any work is done:

class Stream(object):
    """Interface of all stream objects"""
    def resetStats(self):
        if self.__class__ is Stream:
            raise NotImplementedError()
        _log.info('Reset statistics of %s' % self)

Even simpler is to just put the check in __init__, so to prevent the 
caller from creating an instance of the class:

class AbstractStream(object):
    def __init__(self):
        if self.__class__ is Stream:
            raise NotImplementedError('abstract class')
    def resetStats(self):
        # This does not need to be over-ridden.
        _log.info('Reset statistics of %s' % self)
    def whatever(self):
        # This *must* be over-ridden, and *cannot* be called
        raise NotImplementedError('abstract method')


If you have a lot of methods, you can probably reduce the boilerplate 
with decorators:


# Untested
from functools import wraps
def abstract(func):
    # Abstract methods don't have to be over-ridden, so long as they
    # are called from a subclass of the abstract class.
    @functools.wraps(func)
    def inner(self, *args, **kwargs):
        if self.__class__ is Stream:
            raise NotImplementedError()
        return func(self, *args, **kwargs)
    return inner

def virtual(func):
    # Virtual methods must be over-ridden, and must not be called by
    # inheritance.
    @functools.wraps(func)
    def inner(self, *args, **kwargs):
        raise NotImplementedError()
    return inner

class Stream(object):
    @abstract
    def __init__(self):
        pass
    def resetStats(self):
        _log.info('Reset statistics of %s' % self)
    @virtual
    def whatever(self):
        pass



-- 
Steven


From maymunbeyin at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 12:03:27 2009
From: maymunbeyin at gmail.com (kk)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:03:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Why does my ftp script quit after couple of hours?
Message-ID: <6ec34299-107d-48c7-a5bf-6a10d5911411@j9g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>

Hi
This way the first time I did something with ftp stuff. I think that
generally it works but it stops working(quits or disappears) after
couple of hours of running.

This was a personal test-trial script for my own needs which was to
get my dynamic ip and broadcast to a client(I have a client script on
another computer). I sure could use something like DynDns for the same
purpose with easier management but I just wanted to give it a try to
see if i could even make it work .

Basically this script parses my ip from DynDns ip check page and
uploads it to the given ftp site. It works fine initially, it does
upload, it updates the Ip every hour but the problem is that after
couple of hours the Python console window disappears, I assume it
crashes.  I know it does upload at least couple times(works for couple
hours). it might be something to do with ftp connection. I will
investigate that but I just wanted to see if I have any logic or some
kind of contextual problem in the script.


Here is the link to Pastie page
http://pastie.org/584152


Thanks


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Aug 14 12:11:52 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 14 Aug 2009 16:11:52 GMT
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in string
	literals]
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 07:07:31 -0700, Aahz wrote:

> "I saw `cout' being shifted "Hello world" times to the left and stopped
> right there."  --Steve Gonedes

Assuming that's something real, and not invented for humour, I presume 
that's describing something possible in C++. Am I correct? What the hell 
would it actually do???


-- 
Steven


From invalid at invalid  Fri Aug 14 12:17:36 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 11:17:36 -0500
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in
	string literals]
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-14, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 07:07:31 -0700, Aahz wrote:
>
>> "I saw `cout' being shifted "Hello world" times to the left and stopped
>> right there."  --Steve Gonedes
>
> Assuming that's something real, and not invented for humour, I presume 
> that's describing something possible in C++. Am I correct?

Yes.  In C++, the "<<" operator is overloaded.  Judging by the
context in which I've seen it used, it does something like
write strings to a stream.

> What the hell
> would it actually do???

IIRC in C++, 

   cout << "Hello world";

is equivalent to this in C:

   printf("Hellow world");

or this in Python:

   print "hellow world"

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Bo Derek ruined
                                  at               my life!
                               visi.com            


From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Aug 14 12:17:57 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:17:57 +0200
Subject: Why does my ftp script quit after couple of hours?
In-Reply-To: <6ec34299-107d-48c7-a5bf-6a10d5911411@j9g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
References: <6ec34299-107d-48c7-a5bf-6a10d5911411@j9g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7elh1lF2h1rl0U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

kk schrieb:
> Hi
> This way the first time I did something with ftp stuff. I think that
> generally it works but it stops working(quits or disappears) after
> couple of hours of running.
> 
> This was a personal test-trial script for my own needs which was to
> get my dynamic ip and broadcast to a client(I have a client script on
> another computer). I sure could use something like DynDns for the same
> purpose with easier management but I just wanted to give it a try to
> see if i could even make it work .
> 
> Basically this script parses my ip from DynDns ip check page and
> uploads it to the given ftp site. It works fine initially, it does
> upload, it updates the Ip every hour but the problem is that after
> couple of hours the Python console window disappears, I assume it
> crashes.  I know it does upload at least couple times(works for couple
> hours). it might be something to do with ftp connection. I will
> investigate that but I just wanted to see if I have any logic or some
> kind of contextual problem in the script.
> 
> 
> Here is the link to Pastie page
> http://pastie.org/584152


The code isn't very robust if anything happens retrieving the IP-website 
- if for some reason the connection is broken, it won't catch any 
ensuing IO-exception.

Also your way of extracing the IP is rather awkward, a simple re (often 
not the right tool, but here certainl yes) would help:

 >>> m = re.search(r"(([0-9]+\.){3}[0-9]+)", body)
 >>> m.group(1)
'85.177.92.101'
 >>>


Diez


From maymunbeyin at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 12:25:50 2009
From: maymunbeyin at gmail.com (kk)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:25:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Why does my ftp script quit after couple of hours?
References: <6ec34299-107d-48c7-a5bf-6a10d5911411@j9g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	<7elh1lF2h1rl0U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <337951bf-4d0d-4dde-95de-8e6d7d68a7f5@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

Hi Diez

Thanks for your insight. The reason I chose the awkward method to
parse the ip digits is that I was not familiar with the regex module
and the Dyndns Ip page is pretty simple page. I guess it is time to
learn more about the Re module.

As far as robustness, I agree with your assestment. I guess my main
confusion with my result is that the console window just disappears. I
wonder if I can make the window stay even if it crashesor if there are
connection issues? I will createa  seperate log file to see if I can
catch any issues in a log file.



From bieffe62 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 12:27:30 2009
From: bieffe62 at gmail.com (Francesco Bochicchio)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:27:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Why does my ftp script quit after couple of hours?
References: <6ec34299-107d-48c7-a5bf-6a10d5911411@j9g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <84991768-4ab5-45fa-8e99-c8910280c81f@d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On 14 Ago, 18:03, kk  wrote:
> Hi
> This way the first time I did something with ftp stuff. I think that
> generally it works but it stops working(quits or disappears) after
> couple of hours of running.
>
> This was a personal test-trial script for my own needs which was to
> get my dynamic ip and broadcast to a client(I have a client script on
> another computer). I sure could use something like DynDns for the same
> purpose with easier management but I just wanted to give it a try to
> see if i could even make it work .
>
> Basically this script parses my ip from DynDns ip check page and
> uploads it to the given ftp site. It works fine initially, it does
> upload, it updates the Ip every hour but the problem is that after
> couple of hours the Python console window disappears, I assume it
> crashes. ?I know it does upload at least couple times(works for couple
> hours). it might be something to do with ftp connection. I will
> investigate that but I just wanted to see if I have any logic or some
> kind of contextual problem in the script.
>
> Here is the link to Pastie pagehttp://pastie.org/584152
>
> Thanks

Try catching the exception inside the main loop, to prevent your
program to exit in case of failure:

if __name__=='__main__':
  while True:
    try:
        writeExtFile(FILE_PATH,FILE_NAME)
        uploadFile
(FTP_NAME,FTP_USER_NAME,FTP_PASSWD,FTP_FOLDER,FILE_NAME)
        time.sleep(TIME_DELAY)
    except:
      err, det, tb = sys.exc_info()
      print "ERROR =>", err, det # gives you a description of the
occurred failure
      traceback.print_tb(tb) # this might be needed only for debug


Ciao
----
FB


From wasala at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 12:28:34 2009
From: wasala at gmail.com (Asanka Wasala)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:28:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python Permutations Problem
Message-ID: 

Hi
I am developing a spell checker for my language, and I came across
solving an interesing problem. It would be great if you can suggest
me  an optimized solution for the problem described below:

I have certain group of letters like these:

Group #1: c,r,b
Group #2: a,z,k
Group #3: h,t
.
.

Letters within the same group can be substituted/replaced with the
rest of the letters in that group.

(ie. Group #1 means letter 'c' can be replaced with either 'r' or 'b',
and letter r can be replaced with either c or b, and letter b can be
replaced with either r or c)

A group can have upto 3 letters, and letters do not overlap between
groups. There can be upto 25 such groups.
Given a word containing above letters, (e.g. 'cat'.) I want to
generate all possible words by subsituting letters in the groups.

eg. expected output:

cat	rat	bat
czt	rzt 	bzt
ckt	rkt	bkt
cah	rah	bah
czh	rzh	bzh
ckh	rkh	bkh

My code is given below. But for complex words like 'cccccccccczzk' it
thows the 'maximum recursion depth exceeded' error. Therefore, can you
suggest me an optimized solution to achive the above task? Thanks in
advance.
--------------------------
CODE-------------------------------------------
#-*- coding: UTF-8 -*-
import re
def getPermutations(word):
    def getSimilarLetters(letter):
        pattern=u"|c,r,b|a,z,k|h,t|"
        list=[]
        ptrn=re.compile("(?P\|(.?,)*?"+letter+"(,.)*?\|)")
        k=ptrn.search(pattern)
        if k:
            letterlist=k.group("grp")[1:-1]
            list=letterlist.split(",")
            list.remove(letter)
            return list
        else:
            return letter

    list=[]

    def perm(word):
        posi=0
        wrd=word
        for w in word:
            posi=posi+1
            lst=getSimilarLetters(w)
            if len(lst)>0:
                for l in lst:
                    newwrd=wrd[:posi-1]+l+wrd[posi:]
                    if not (newwrd in list):
                        list.append(newwrd)
                        perm(newwrd)

    try:
        perm(word)
    except RuntimeError:
        list=[]
        list.append("error")
    return list

list=getPermutations(u"cat")

for i in list:
    print i.encode('utf-8')
--------------------------------------------END of
CODE-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


From prateekkakirwar at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 12:31:43 2009
From: prateekkakirwar at gmail.com (Prateek)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:31:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Natural Language Processing in Python
Message-ID: 

Hi,

Can somebody please provide me link to a good online resource or e-
book for doing natural language processing programming in Python.

Thanks,
Prateek


From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Aug 14 12:38:12 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:38:12 +0200
Subject: Why does my ftp script quit after couple of hours?
In-Reply-To: <337951bf-4d0d-4dde-95de-8e6d7d68a7f5@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
References: <6ec34299-107d-48c7-a5bf-6a10d5911411@j9g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	<7elh1lF2h1rl0U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<337951bf-4d0d-4dde-95de-8e6d7d68a7f5@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7eli7kF2gdbanU2@mid.uni-berlin.de>

kk schrieb:
> Hi Diez
> 
> Thanks for your insight. The reason I chose the awkward method to
> parse the ip digits is that I was not familiar with the regex module
> and the Dyndns Ip page is pretty simple page. I guess it is time to
> learn more about the Re module.
> 
> As far as robustness, I agree with your assestment. I guess my main
> confusion with my result is that the console window just disappears. I
> wonder if I can make the window stay even if it crashesor if there are
> connection issues? I will createa  seperate log file to see if I can
> catch any issues in a log file.

I'm not a Windows-user, but even there it should be possible to *first* 
open the console, and then start the script in it.

That will keep it open & you can see the stacktrace.
Diez


From tim.arnold at sas.com  Fri Aug 14 12:39:10 2009
From: tim.arnold at sas.com (Tim Arnold)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 12:39:10 -0400
Subject: coding for multiple versions of python
References: 
Message-ID: 

"Tim Arnold"  wrote in message 
news:h61gld$it2$1 at foggy.unx.sas.com...
> Hi,
> I've got a python based system that has to run on hp unix and red hat 
> linux. The Python version on the HP is 2.4 and the version on the Linux 
> box is 2.6. There's nothing I can do about that.
>
> I think that means I must have two different libraries since the pyc files 
> are not cross-version compatible. No problem for the libs like PIL or 
> lxml. But for the part of the system I actually code every day, I'd rather 
> not do dual maintenance, having two copies of my code for each 
> platform/version.
>
> I'm guessing I need to configure cvs to copy files to both locations 
> whenever I commit. Does that sound right? Is there a better way I'm not 
> thinking of?
>
> thanks,
> --Tim
>
Thanks everyone. I assumed wrongly that I would run into problems if a pyc 
file generated for 2.4 was available when 2.6 was running the code. I see 
now that if the pyc is incompatible, python falls back to the py file. Makes 
sense, I was trying to solve a problem I didn't actually have.

On the other hand, Martin's solution looks great for this situation. I'll 
keep my single set of python files and link to them from the different 
platform/python version dirs, so I can still get the optimization of the pyc 
files.

I really love this group. thanks again,
--Tim Arnold




From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Aug 14 12:40:04 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 17:40:04 +0100
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in
	string literals]
In-Reply-To: 
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>		<02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <4A859364.3060203@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2009-08-14, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
>> On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 07:07:31 -0700, Aahz wrote:
>>
>>> "I saw `cout' being shifted "Hello world" times to the left and stopped
>>> right there."  --Steve Gonedes
>> Assuming that's something real, and not invented for humour, I presume 
>> that's describing something possible in C++. Am I correct?
> 
> Yes.  In C++, the "<<" operator is overloaded.  Judging by the
> context in which I've seen it used, it does something like
> write strings to a stream.
> 
>> What the hell
>> would it actually do???
> 
> IIRC in C++, 
> 
>    cout << "Hello world";
> 
It also returns cout, so you can chain them:

     cout << "Hello, " << name << '\n';

> is equivalent to this in C:
> 
>    printf("Hellow world");
> 
> or this in Python:
> 
>    print "hellow world"
> 



From maymunbeyin at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 12:40:08 2009
From: maymunbeyin at gmail.com (kk)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:40:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Why does my ftp script quit after couple of hours?
References: <6ec34299-107d-48c7-a5bf-6a10d5911411@j9g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	<7elh1lF2h1rl0U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<337951bf-4d0d-4dde-95de-8e6d7d68a7f5@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<7eli7kF2gdbanU2@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <0b60c6a7-d950-4c3c-890d-908bb25b239b@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

Awesome stuff, thank you so much for all the help. The
Pcomp.lang.python is the most helpful list I have encountered so
far :)



From a0046088 at airmail.net  Fri Aug 14 12:41:36 2009
From: a0046088 at airmail.net (wwwayne)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 10:41:36 -0600
Subject: Natural Language Processing in Python
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:31:43 -0700 (PDT), Prateek
 wrote:

>Hi,
>
>Can somebody please provide me link to a good online resource or e-
>book for doing natural language processing programming in Python.
>
>Thanks,
>Prateek

http://www.nltk.org/book



From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 12:42:15 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:42:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in 
	string literals]
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 14, 12:17?pm, Grant Edwards  wrote:

> On 2009-08-14, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:

> > On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 07:07:31 -0700, Aahz wrote:

> >> "I saw `cout' being shifted "Hello world" times to the left and stopped
> >> right there." ?--Steve Gonedes
>
> > Assuming that's something real, and not invented for humour, I presume
> > that's describing something possible in C++. Am I correct?
>
> Yes. ?In C++, the "<<" operator is overloaded. ?Judging by the
> context in which I've seen it used, it does something like
> write strings to a stream.

There's a persistent rumor that it is *this* very "abuse" of
overloading that caused Java to avoid operator overloading all
together.

But then then Java went and used "+" as the string concatenation
operator. Go figure!

|>ouglas

P.S. Overloading "left shift" to mean "output" does indeed seem a bit
sketchy, but in 15 years of C++ programming, I've never seen it cause
any confusion or bugs.



From skiaec04 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 12:49:21 2009
From: skiaec04 at gmail.com (Alejandro E. Ciniglio)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 12:49:21 -0400
Subject: Natural Language Processing in Python
References: 
Message-ID: 

nltk is a good start, we used it in my Computational Linguistics course 
in school.

www.nltk.org

--Alejandro



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Aug 14 12:49:26 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:49:26 +0200
Subject: callable virtual method
In-Reply-To: <4A8587A0.6040008@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <4A85798B.6020501@sequans.com>
	<4A8587A0.6040008@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <4A859596.50808@sequans.com>

MRAB wrote:
> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>> Hi fellows,
>>
>> Does anyone know a way to write virtual methods (in one virtual 
>> class) that will raise an exception only if called without being 
>> overridden ?
>> Currently in the virtual method I'm checking that the class of the 
>> instance calling the method has defined that method as well.
>>
>> Example:
>>
>> class Stream(object):
>>    """Interface of all stream objects"""
>>    def resetStats(self):
>>        """Reset the stream statistics. All values a zeroed except the 
>> date."""
>>        _log.info('Reset statistics of %s' % self)
>>        if self.__class__.resetStats == Stream.resetStats:
>>            raise NotImplementedError()
>>
>> It works but it's tedious, I have to add these 2 lines to every 
>> virtual method, changing the content of the 2 lines.
>>
>> Maybe there is a nice/builtin way to do so (python 2.4)
>>
> Why are you checking which class it's in? The method in the base class
> will be called only if it hasn't been overridden in the subclass.

Sorry guys (means guys *and* gals :op ), I realized I've not been able 
to describe precisely what I want to do.
I'd like the base class to be virtual (aka abstract). However it may be 
abstract but it does not mean it cannot do some usefull stuff.


Here is the schema of my abstract methods :

class Interface(object):
    def method(self):
        # ---------------------
        # some common stuff executed here
        # ---------------------
        print 'hello world'
        # ---------------------
        # here shall stand child specific stuff (empty in the interface 
method)
        # ---------------------
        if self.__class__.method == Interface.method:
            raise NotImplementedError('You should have read the f****** 
manual ! You must override this method.')

class GoodChild(Interface):
    def method(self):
       Interface.method(self) # I want to process the cool stuff done my 
the base Interface
       # ------------------------
       # Specific GoodChild stuff here
       # ------------------------
       print 'I am a good'
       return 'perfect'

class BadChild(Interface):
    pass #I'm too lazy


good = GoodChild()
bad = BadChild()

good.method()
...hello world
...I am a good

bad.method()
...NotImplementedError: You should have read the f****** manual ! You 
must override this method.


The reason I'd like to do so: I'll be providing the Interface, but child 
classes will be overridden by others. Having a reliable error RTFM 
feedback is a time saver, for me and the users.
I hope I clarified my issue.

JM


From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Aug 14 12:56:53 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:56:53 +0200
Subject: callable virtual method
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4A85798B.6020501@sequans.com>	<4A8587A0.6040008@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	
Message-ID: <7eljaoF2fnkqgU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Jean-Michel Pichavant schrieb:
> MRAB wrote:
>> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>>> Hi fellows,
>>>
>>> Does anyone know a way to write virtual methods (in one virtual 
>>> class) that will raise an exception only if called without being 
>>> overridden ?
>>> Currently in the virtual method I'm checking that the class of the 
>>> instance calling the method has defined that method as well.
>>>
>>> Example:
>>>
>>> class Stream(object):
>>>    """Interface of all stream objects"""
>>>    def resetStats(self):
>>>        """Reset the stream statistics. All values a zeroed except the 
>>> date."""
>>>        _log.info('Reset statistics of %s' % self)
>>>        if self.__class__.resetStats == Stream.resetStats:
>>>            raise NotImplementedError()
>>>
>>> It works but it's tedious, I have to add these 2 lines to every 
>>> virtual method, changing the content of the 2 lines.
>>>
>>> Maybe there is a nice/builtin way to do so (python 2.4)
>>>
>> Why are you checking which class it's in? The method in the base class
>> will be called only if it hasn't been overridden in the subclass.
> 
> Sorry guys (means guys *and* gals :op ), I realized I've not been able 
> to describe precisely what I want to do.
> I'd like the base class to be virtual (aka abstract). However it may be 
> abstract but it does not mean it cannot do some usefull stuff.
> 
> 
> Here is the schema of my abstract methods :
> 
> class Interface(object):
>    def method(self):
>        # ---------------------
>        # some common stuff executed here
>        # ---------------------
>        print 'hello world'
>        # ---------------------
>        # here shall stand child specific stuff (empty in the interface 
> method)
>        # ---------------------
>        if self.__class__.method == Interface.method:
>            raise NotImplementedError('You should have read the f****** 
> manual ! You must override this method.')
> 
> class GoodChild(Interface):
>    def method(self):
>       Interface.method(self) # I want to process the cool stuff done my 
> the base Interface
>       # ------------------------
>       # Specific GoodChild stuff here
>       # ------------------------
>       print 'I am a good'
>       return 'perfect'
> 
> class BadChild(Interface):
>    pass #I'm too lazy
> 
> 
> good = GoodChild()
> bad = BadChild()
> 
> good.method()
> ...hello world
> ...I am a good
> 
> bad.method()
> ...NotImplementedError: You should have read the f****** manual ! You 
> must override this method.
> 
> 
> The reason I'd like to do so: I'll be providing the Interface, but child 
> classes will be overridden by others. Having a reliable error RTFM 
> feedback is a time saver, for me and the users.
> I hope I clarified my issue.

First of all, I doubt the above code really yields that output. You are 
missing a super-call there in GoodChild

And the whole problem goes magically away if you start using OO a bit:


class Base(object):


   def method(self):
       self._do_some_work_for_method()
       print "some more work"

   def _do_some_work_for_method(self):
       raise NotImplemented


So your subclasses must implement something else instead of method - and 
voila, without any hassle things work as expected.

Diez


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Aug 14 12:58:33 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 17:58:33 +0100
Subject: Python Permutations Problem
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A8597B9.2000002@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Asanka Wasala wrote:
> Hi
> I am developing a spell checker for my language, and I came across
> solving an interesing problem. It would be great if you can suggest
> me  an optimized solution for the problem described below:
> 
> I have certain group of letters like these:
> 
> Group #1: c,r,b
> Group #2: a,z,k
> Group #3: h,t
> .
> .
> 
> Letters within the same group can be substituted/replaced with the
> rest of the letters in that group.
> 
> (ie. Group #1 means letter 'c' can be replaced with either 'r' or 'b',
> and letter r can be replaced with either c or b, and letter b can be
> replaced with either r or c)
> 
> A group can have upto 3 letters, and letters do not overlap between
> groups. There can be upto 25 such groups.
> Given a word containing above letters, (e.g. 'cat'.) I want to
> generate all possible words by subsituting letters in the groups.
> 
> eg. expected output:
> 
> cat	rat	bat
> czt	rzt 	bzt
> ckt	rkt	bkt
> cah	rah	bah
> czh	rzh	bzh
> ckh	rkh	bkh
> 
> My code is given below. But for complex words like 'cccccccccczzk' it
> thows the 'maximum recursion depth exceeded' error. Therefore, can you
> suggest me an optimized solution to achive the above task? Thanks in
> advance.
> --------------------------
[snip]
This uses a generator in order:

def get_permutations(word, group_dict):
     if word:
         for first in group_dict[word[0]]:
             for rest in get_permutations(word[1 : ], group_dict):
                 yield first + rest
     else:
         yield ""

def count_permutations(word, group_dict):
     if word:
         total = 1
         for letter in word:
             total *= len(group_dict[letter])
         return total
     else:
         return 0

group_def = u"crb azk ht"

group_dict = {}
for group in group_def.split():
     for letter in group:
         group_dict[letter] = group

word = u"cat"

print "There are %d permutations." % count_permutations(word, group_dict)
print

for perm in get_permutations(word, group_dict):
     print perm


From lanyjie at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 14 13:00:49 2009
From: lanyjie at yahoo.com (Yingjie Lan)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 10:00:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Python-Dev] expy: an expressway to extend Python
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <637900.988.qm@web54204.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

--- On Sat, 8/8/09, Stefan Behnel  wrote:

> From: Stefan Behnel 
> Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] expy: an expressway to extend Python
> To: python-dev at python.org
> Date: Saturday, August 8, 2009, 4:55 PM
> > More details at http://expy.sourceforge.net/
> 
> I'm clearly biased, but my main concern here is that expy
> requires C code
> to be written inside of strings. There isn't any good
> editor support for
> that, so I doubt that expy is good for anything but very
> thin wrappers (as
> in the examples you presented).

Thanks a lot for the input -- I sort of recaptured the advantages of expy and listed four points in the new introduction at http://expy.sf.net/ homepage. 

Lacking of editor highlight support is quite a problem, but it is possible to create a support. For example, you can use this to indicate the start of embedded code highlight: 

return """

and then the end mark is of course the enclosing """

> 
> That said, you might want to look at the argument unpacking
> code generated
> by Cython. It's highly optimised through specialisation and
> has been
> benchmarked quite a bit faster than the generic Python
> C-API functions for
> tuple/keyword extracting. Since argument conversion seems
> to be more or
> less all that expy really does, maybe you want to reuse
> that code.
> 
> Stefan

Oh sure, that's nice if that part can be adopted by expy-cxpy. Any help out on this would be very welcomed.


Yingjie


      


From vippstar at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 13:01:57 2009
From: vippstar at gmail.com (vippstar)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 10:01:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: A Exhibition Of Tech Geekers Incompetence: Emacs whitespace-mode
References: <61ef4451-d6b6-493b-b4a0-1822a901ca8d@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 14, 4:36?am, Xah Lee  wrote:
> ? A Exhibition Of Tech Geekers Incompetence: Emacs whitespace-mode
> ?http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/emacs_whitespace-mode_problem...

Instead of writing a completely useless article you could had asked
for help in an emacs newsgroup, or wait until someone else does that
for you too (creating and publishing such configuration you desire).
Your article, except for the brief description of that mode, is
completely useless. Why would you fill your website with junk? Perhaps
because you like to write but you're too lazy to write something of
value.


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Aug 14 13:09:42 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 14 Aug 2009 17:09:42 GMT
Subject: retrieve item from nested list given index tuple
References: 
Message-ID: <02958ab2$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:54:54 +0000, Alan G Isaac wrote:

> `lst` is a nested list
> 
> `tpl` is the indexes for an item in the list

> What is the nice way to retrieve the item? (Speedy access is nice.)

Assuming you want to do this frequently, write a helper function, then 
use it:

# Untested
def extract(nested, indexes):
    for index in indexes:
        nested = nested[index]
    return nested


> I don't want to use NumPy, but I'd like somehow to avoid an explicit
> loop.  I did consider using eval.  E.g., eval('lst' +
> '[%d]'*len(tpl)%tpl). It works but seems rather ugly.

And slow.


> I kind of like
> reduce(list.__getitem__, tpl, lst) but the reliance on reduce remains
> controversial enough to see i removed from the Python 3 built-ins ...

It's just moved into functools.


>>> lst = ['a', 'b', ['aa', ['aaa', 'bbb', 'ccc'], 'cc']]
>>> from functools import reduce
>>> lst = ['a', 'b', ['aa', ['aaa', 'bbb', 'ccc'], 'cc']]
>>> reduce(list.__getitem__, (2, 1, 0), lst)
'aaa'


However, it doesn't work too well as soon as you mix sequence types:

>>> reduce(list.__getitem__, (2, 1, 0, 0), lst)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
TypeError: descriptor '__getitem__' requires a 'list' object but received 
a 'str'

Try this instead:

>>> from operator import getitem
>>> reduce(getitem, (2, 1, 0), lst)
'aaa'
>>> reduce(getitem, (2, 1, 0, 0), lst)
'a'

operator.getitem is less ugly too.



-- 
Steven


From chris at simplistix.co.uk  Fri Aug 14 13:13:05 2009
From: chris at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:13:05 +0100
Subject: csv.DictWriter.write_header()
In-Reply-To: 
References: 			<68b9136d-fa0b-42dc-addf-02d338da34cd@z4g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4A859B21.7020603@simplistix.co.uk>

Alan G Isaac wrote:
> On 8/13/2009 7:58 AM John Machin apparently wrote:
>> Duck typing: ask a silly question, get a silly answer.
> 
> Maybe if you learned to be a more generous reader,
> fewer questions would look "silly" to you.

If you take a look at the crap that John very patiently wades through on 
the python-excel group, you might consider that a little light hearted 
sarcasm isn't much to put up with ;-)

FWIW, if you're using csv because you think .xls is too hard to 
generate, try xlwt :-)

cheers,

Chris

-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting
            - http://www.simplistix.co.uk


From cjw at ncf.ca  Fri Aug 14 13:14:16 2009
From: cjw at ncf.ca (Colin J. Williams)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:14:16 -0400
Subject: trouble with reload
In-Reply-To: <02957215$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <24956946.post@talk.nabble.com>		
	<02957215$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:23:17 -0400, Colin J. Williams wrote:
> 
>> It's typically a user module that needs to be reloaded.
> 
> What's a user module?
A module written by a user, as distinguished from a libary
> 
> 
>> It seems that  del sys.modules['moduleName'] has no effect.
> 
> sys.modules is just a dictionary, I find it hard to believe that deleting 
> from it has no effect. It works for me:
> 
>>>> import sys
>>>> import math
>>>> 'math' in sys.modules
> True
>>>> del sys.modules['math']
>>>> 'math' in sys.modules
> False
> 
> What behaviour do you get?
> 
> 
> Of course deleting the math module from the cache doesn't do anything to 
> the math module in your namespace:
> 
>>>> math
> 
>>>> del math
>>>> math
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "", line 1, in 
> NameError: name 'math' is not defined
> 
> Of course deleting the module (or reloading it) doesn't have any effect 
> on any objects you already have:
> 
> 
>>>> import math
>>>> func = math.sin
>>>> del sys.modules['math']
>>>> del math
>>>> math.sin(1.2)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "", line 1, in 
> NameError: name 'math' is not defined
>>>> func(1.2)
> 0.93203908596722629
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> Is there some other way of ensuring that any import goes to
>> moduleName.py, instead of moduleName.pyc?
> 
> Delete moduleName.pyc.
> 
> Make sure the .pyc file doesn't exist in the first place.
> 
> Make sure the last modification date of the .py file is newer than the 
> modification date of the .pyc file.

That's easier said than done, when one is working with an IDE.  The cached 
.pyc file might be different from that in the file.

Colin W.
> 
> 
> 


From chris at simplistix.co.uk  Fri Aug 14 13:16:26 2009
From: chris at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:16:26 +0100
Subject: httplib incredibly slow :-(
In-Reply-To: 
References: 		
	
Message-ID: <4A859BEA.9070701@simplistix.co.uk>

Aahz wrote:
> Sorry, I mostly have been working on our Mac port, so I'm not sure what's
> needed to make this work on Windows.  Did you try downloading the PyCurl
> binary?  Maybe it statically links libcurl on Windows.

Shame it's not available as a bdist_egg, that's what I'm really after...

> What do you need to know for a decent example?

Simple download of a file from a url with some auth headers added would 
do me.
Other than that, nice to haves would be how to build a http post with 
fields in a multi-part body, some of which might be files.

cheers,

Chris

-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting
            - http://www.simplistix.co.uk


From nad at acm.org  Fri Aug 14 13:21:16 2009
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 10:21:16 -0700
Subject: Natural Language Processing in Python
References: 
Message-ID: 

In article 
,
 Prateek  wrote:
> Can somebody please provide me link to a good online resource or e-
> book for doing natural language processing programming in Python.

Check out the Natural Language Toolkit:
http://www.nltk.org/

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org



From daniel.eliason at excite.com  Fri Aug 14 13:25:17 2009
From: daniel.eliason at excite.com (fortunatus)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 10:25:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: A Exhibition Of Tech Geekers Incompetence: Emacs whitespace-mode
References: <61ef4451-d6b6-493b-b4a0-1822a901ca8d@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 14, 1:01?pm, vippstar  wrote:
> Why would you fill your website with junk?

The OP made it clear:

>Just wanted to express some frustration with whitespace-mode.


From vippstar at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 13:31:39 2009
From: vippstar at gmail.com (vippstar)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 10:31:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: A Exhibition Of Tech Geekers Incompetence: Emacs whitespace-mode
References: <61ef4451-d6b6-493b-b4a0-1822a901ca8d@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 14, 8:25?pm, fortunatus  wrote:
> On Aug 14, 1:01?pm, vippstar  wrote:
>
> > Why would you fill your website with junk?
>
> The OP made it clear:
>
> >Just wanted to express some frustration with whitespace-mode.

You took my question out of context and answered it. I read the
article, it's not like I missed any of it. Plus, it's not a real
answer. "Because I wanted to". Why did you? Why would you?


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Aug 14 13:43:15 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 19:43:15 +0200
Subject: callable virtual method
In-Reply-To: <7eljaoF2fnkqgU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: <4A85798B.6020501@sequans.com>	<4A8587A0.6040008@mrabarnett.plus.com>	
	<7eljaoF2fnkqgU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <4A85A233.9030905@sequans.com>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> Jean-Michel Pichavant schrieb:
>> MRAB wrote:
>>> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>>>> Hi fellows,
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone know a way to write virtual methods (in one virtual 
>>>> class) that will raise an exception only if called without being 
>>>> overridden ?
>>>> Currently in the virtual method I'm checking that the class of the 
>>>> instance calling the method has defined that method as well.
>>>>
>>>> Example:
>>>>
>>>> class Stream(object):
>>>>    """Interface of all stream objects"""
>>>>    def resetStats(self):
>>>>        """Reset the stream statistics. All values a zeroed except 
>>>> the date."""
>>>>        _log.info('Reset statistics of %s' % self)
>>>>        if self.__class__.resetStats == Stream.resetStats:
>>>>            raise NotImplementedError()
>>>>
>>>> It works but it's tedious, I have to add these 2 lines to every 
>>>> virtual method, changing the content of the 2 lines.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe there is a nice/builtin way to do so (python 2.4)
>>>>
>>> Why are you checking which class it's in? The method in the base class
>>> will be called only if it hasn't been overridden in the subclass.
>>
>> Sorry guys (means guys *and* gals :op ), I realized I've not been 
>> able to describe precisely what I want to do.
>> I'd like the base class to be virtual (aka abstract). However it may 
>> be abstract but it does not mean it cannot do some usefull stuff.
>>
>>
>> Here is the schema of my abstract methods :
>>
>> class Interface(object):
>>    def method(self):
>>        # ---------------------
>>        # some common stuff executed here
>>        # ---------------------
>>        print 'hello world'
>>        # ---------------------
>>        # here shall stand child specific stuff (empty in the 
>> interface method)
>>        # ---------------------
>>        if self.__class__.method == Interface.method:
>>            raise NotImplementedError('You should have read the 
>> f****** manual ! You must override this method.')
>>
>> class GoodChild(Interface):
>>    def method(self):
>>       Interface.method(self) # I want to process the cool stuff done 
>> my the base Interface
>>       # ------------------------
>>       # Specific GoodChild stuff here
>>       # ------------------------
>>       print 'I am a good'
>>       return 'perfect'
>>
>> class BadChild(Interface):
>>    pass #I'm too lazy
>>
>>
>> good = GoodChild()
>> bad = BadChild()
>>
>> good.method()
>> ...hello world
>> ...I am a good
>>
>> bad.method()
>> ...NotImplementedError: You should have read the f****** manual ! You 
>> must override this method.
>>
>>
>> The reason I'd like to do so: I'll be providing the Interface, but 
>> child classes will be overridden by others. Having a reliable error 
>> RTFM feedback is a time saver, for me and the users.
>> I hope I clarified my issue.
>
> First of all, I doubt the above code really yields that output. You 
> are missing a super-call there in GoodChild
>
> And the whole problem goes magically away if you start using OO a bit:
>
>
> class Base(object):
>
>
>   def method(self):
>       self._do_some_work_for_method()
>       print "some more work"
>
>   def _do_some_work_for_method(self):
>       raise NotImplemented
>
>
> So your subclasses must implement something else instead of method - 
> and voila, without any hassle things work as expected.
>
> Diez

It does yield that output, there's an unbound call to Interface.method.

Your solution will work, for sure. The problem is that it will dumb down 
the Base class interface, multiplying the number of methods by 2. This 
would not be an issue in many cases, in mine there's already too much 
meaningful methods in my class for me to add artificial ones.

Thanks for the tip anyway.
JM








From wiggly at wiggly.org  Fri Aug 14 13:53:02 2009
From: wiggly at wiggly.org (Nigel Rantor)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:53:02 +0100
Subject: callable virtual method
In-Reply-To: <4A85A233.9030905@sequans.com>
References: <4A85798B.6020501@sequans.com>	<4A8587A0.6040008@mrabarnett.plus.com>		<7eljaoF2fnkqgU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<4A85A233.9030905@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <4A85A47E.308@wiggly.org>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> 
> Your solution will work, for sure. The problem is that it will dumb down 
> the Base class interface, multiplying the number of methods by 2. This 
> would not be an issue in many cases, in mine there's already too much 
> meaningful methods in my class for me to add artificial ones.
> 
> Thanks for the tip anyway.

I suggest you reconsider.

You asked a question and have been given a standard way of achieving the 
desired outcome.

It's common in OO to use a Template pattern like this.

If you're not interested in finding out how loads of people have already 
solved the problem then why ask?

The methods that require overriding can be prefixed with an underscore 
so that people get a hint that they are an implementation detail rather 
than part of the public interface.

I don't see your problem, other than a vague aesthetic unease.

Regards,

   n


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Aug 14 13:55:59 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 14 Aug 2009 17:55:59 GMT
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<3611ca55-79a6-4336-9041-07d0893789f7@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
	<0447e8a2-508d-45b2-8d15-da0cc2a56b5f@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	
	<494d80f1-0b47-468c-bdd9-7a087f6d915c@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	
	<7877b03a-09da-4836-804c-502b6f78003c@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<02933e60$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<2cdc3f88-1952-4ca2-9754-5b7583fb5fd8@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0295958b$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

I think I've spent enough time on this discussion, so I won't be directly 
responding to any of your recent points -- it's clear that I'm not 
persuading you that there's any justification for any behaviour for 
escape sequences other than the way C++ deals with them. That's your 
prerogative, of course, but I've done enough tilting at windmills for 
this week, so I'll just make one final comment and then withdraw from an 
unproductive argument. (I will make an effort to read any final comments 
you wish to make, so feel free to reply. Just don't expect an answer to 
any questions.)

Douglas, you and I clearly have a difference of opinion on this. Neither 
of us have provided even the tiniest amount of objective, replicable, 
reliable data on the error-proneness of the C++ approach versus that of 
Python. The supposed superiority of the C++ approach is entirely 
subjective and based on personal opinion instead of quantitative facts.

I prefer languages that permit anything that isn't explicitly forbidden, 
so I'm happy that Python treats non-special escape sequences as valid, 
and your attempts to convince me that this goes against the Zen have 
entirely failed to convince me. As I've done before, I will admit that 
one consequence of this design is that it makes it hard to introduce new 
escape sequences to Python. Given that it's vanishingly rare to want to 
do so, and that wanting to add backslashes to strings is common, I think 
that's a reasonable tradeoff. Other languages may make different 
tradeoffs, and that's fine by me.



-- 
Steven


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Aug 14 13:57:17 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 19:57:17 +0200
Subject: A Exhibition Of Tech Geekers Incompetence: Emacs whitespace-mode
In-Reply-To: 
References: <61ef4451-d6b6-493b-b4a0-1822a901ca8d@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>	
	
	
Message-ID: <4A85A57D.8030908@sequans.com>

vippstar wrote:
> On Aug 14, 8:25 pm, fortunatus  wrote:
>   
>> On Aug 14, 1:01 pm, vippstar  wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> Why would you fill your website with junk?
>>>       
>> The OP made it clear:
>>
>>     
>>> Just wanted to express some frustration with whitespace-mode.
>>>       
>
> You took my question out of context and answered it. I read the
> article, it's not like I missed any of it. Plus, it's not a real
> answer. "Because I wanted to". Why did you? Why would you?
>   
FYI, Xah Lee is a well known BTFL (Benevolent Troller For Life), you 
shouldn't argue about one of his post.


From cjw at ncf.ca  Fri Aug 14 13:57:18 2009
From: cjw at ncf.ca (Colin J. Williams)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:57:18 -0400
Subject: retrieve item from nested list given index tuple
In-Reply-To: <02958ab2$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 
	<02958ab2$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:54:54 +0000, Alan G Isaac wrote:
> 
>> `lst` is a nested list
>>
>> `tpl` is the indexes for an item in the list
> 
>> What is the nice way to retrieve the item? (Speedy access is nice.)
> 
> Assuming you want to do this frequently, write a helper function, then 
> use it:
> 
> # Untested
> def extract(nested, indexes):
>     for index in indexes:
>         nested = nested[index]
>     return nested

This looks OK for the first level of nesting.  We are not told much about tpl 
but suppose that:

lst= [a, [b, [c, d]], [e, f]] and that we wish to retrieve d and f from lst. 
tpl would need to be something like [[1, 1, 1], [2, 1]].

If that is the requirement, then Untested is only a step along the road, 
extract could be made recursive.

Colin W.
> 
> 
>> I don't want to use NumPy, but I'd like somehow to avoid an explicit
>> loop.  I did consider using eval.  E.g., eval('lst' +
>> '[%d]'*len(tpl)%tpl). It works but seems rather ugly.
> 
> And slow.
> 
> 
>> I kind of like
>> reduce(list.__getitem__, tpl, lst) but the reliance on reduce remains
>> controversial enough to see i removed from the Python 3 built-ins ...
> 
> It's just moved into functools.
> 
> 
>>>> lst = ['a', 'b', ['aa', ['aaa', 'bbb', 'ccc'], 'cc']]
>>>> from functools import reduce
>>>> lst = ['a', 'b', ['aa', ['aaa', 'bbb', 'ccc'], 'cc']]
>>>> reduce(list.__getitem__, (2, 1, 0), lst)
> 'aaa'
> 
> 
> However, it doesn't work too well as soon as you mix sequence types:
> 
>>>> reduce(list.__getitem__, (2, 1, 0, 0), lst)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "", line 1, in 
> TypeError: descriptor '__getitem__' requires a 'list' object but received 
> a 'str'
> 
> Try this instead:
> 
>>>> from operator import getitem
>>>> reduce(getitem, (2, 1, 0), lst)
> 'aaa'
>>>> reduce(getitem, (2, 1, 0, 0), lst)
> 'a'
> 
> operator.getitem is less ugly too.
> 
> 

Colin W.


From alan.isaac at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 14:02:58 2009
From: alan.isaac at gmail.com (Alan G Isaac)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:02:58 GMT
Subject: retrieve item from nested list given index tuple
In-Reply-To: <02958ab2$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 
	<02958ab2$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

On 8/14/2009 1:09 PM Steven D'Aprano apparently wrote:
> Try this instead:
> 
>>>> from operator import getitem
>>>> reduce(getitem, (2, 1, 0), lst)
> 'aaa'
>>>> reduce(getitem, (2, 1, 0, 0), lst)
> 'a'
> 
> operator.getitem is less ugly too.


Yes, that's better.
Thanks,
Alan


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Aug 14 14:03:27 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 14 Aug 2009 18:03:27 GMT
Subject: trouble with reload
References: <24956946.post@talk.nabble.com>
	
	
	<02957215$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <0295974b$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:14:16 -0400, Colin J. Williams wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:23:17 -0400, Colin J. Williams wrote:
>> 
>>> It's typically a user module that needs to be reloaded.
>> 
>> What's a user module?
> A module written by a user, as distinguished from a libary

You mean an end-user of the application? Or you mean the application 
programmer? 

I'm not sure there is any difference between "user modules" and "library 
modules" apart from what they do.

Perhaps it would help if you could explain the circumstances of when you 
would reload a module. During application development, for an incremental 
edit/reload/test cycle? Or while the completed application is being 
executed?


>>> Is there some other way of ensuring that any import goes to
>>> moduleName.py, instead of moduleName.pyc?
>> 
>> Delete moduleName.pyc.
>> 
>> Make sure the .pyc file doesn't exist in the first place.
>> 
>> Make sure the last modification date of the .py file is newer than the
>> modification date of the .pyc file.
> 
> That's easier said than done, when one is working with an IDE.  The
> cached .pyc file might be different from that in the file.

If the IDE is getting in your way, then don't use it.

Or if you tell us what IDE you're using, and precisely what it is doing, 
somebody can tell you how to defeat the IDE's cache.

(That won't be me -- I don't use IDEs.)

Or perhaps you're entire approach is wrong, and you shouldn't be using 
reload() at all. Don't know.



-- 
Steven


From dullrich at sprynet.com  Fri Aug 14 14:18:35 2009
From: dullrich at sprynet.com (David C Ullrich)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:18:35 -0500
Subject: Komodo(!)
Message-ID: <-7ydndQXQODmNxjXRVn_vwA@giganews.com>

Probably this isn't news to anyone but me, but just in case:

Last I heard Komodo was a very highly regarded IDE that unfortunately
cost money. Yesterday I discovered that they now have an editor
available for free.

Doesn't contain all the features of the IDE, but just having glanced
at it it seems to contain more than I'll ever use. What I really
like about it is that one can write Komodo scripts in Python
(using an extensive API allowing various manipulations of the
current document).




From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Aug 14 14:20:41 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 14 Aug 2009 18:20:41 GMT
Subject: callable virtual method
References: <4A85798B.6020501@sequans.com>
	<4A8587A0.6040008@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	
Message-ID: <02959b54$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:49:26 +0200, Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:

> Sorry guys (means guys *and* gals :op ), I realized I've not been able
> to describe precisely what I want to do. I'd like the base class to be
> virtual (aka abstract). However it may be abstract but it does not mean
> it cannot do some usefull stuff.
> 
> 
> Here is the schema of my abstract methods :
> 
> class Interface(object):
>     def method(self):
>         # ---------------------
>         # some common stuff executed here
>         # ---------------------
>         print 'hello world'
>         # ---------------------
>         # here shall stand child specific stuff (empty in the interface
> method)
>         # ---------------------
>         if self.__class__.method == Interface.method:
>             raise NotImplementedError('You should have read the f******
> manual ! You must override this method.')


Okay, so I want to sub-class your Interface class. As you said, the 
methods in the abstract class are still useful, so in my class, I don't 
need any extra functionality for some methods -- I'm happy with just the 
"common stuff". So I use normal OO techniques and over-ride just the 
methods I need to over-ride:

class GoodChild(Interface):
    # no need to over-ride method, because it does everything I want
    # but over-ride other methods that don't
    def whatever(self):
        print "Whatever..."
        return Interface.whatever()

But now my class fails, with an insulting error message *wink*, and you 
force me to write a whole lot of crappy stupid boilerplate code:

class VerboseGoodChild(Interface):
    # forced to over-ride methods for no good reason
    def method(self):
        return Interface.method(self)
    def another_method(self):
        return Interface.another_method(self)
    def yet_another_method(self):
        return Interface.yet_another_method(self)
    def still_more_methods(self):
        return Interface.still_more_methods(self)
    # Whew! That was a waste of effort. Now at last over-ride the
    # methods I need to:
    def whatever(self):
        print "Whatever..."
        return Interface.whatever()

After the fourth such class, I say "Bugger this for a game of soldiers" 
and dump your Interface class for something else.


> The reason I'd like to do so: I'll be providing the Interface, but child
> classes will be overridden by others. Having a reliable error RTFM
> feedback is a time saver, for me and the users. I hope I clarified my
> issue.

The usual way of implementing abstract base classes is to simply prohibit 
instantiation of the class, but allow all other inheritance. Putting 
useful functionality in methods, but then prohibiting subclasses from 
using them without jumping through hoops first, seems rather perverse to 
me.



-- 
Steven


From vlastimil.brom at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 14:26:00 2009
From: vlastimil.brom at gmail.com (Vlastimil Brom)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 20:26:00 +0200
Subject: Natural Language Processing in Python
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <9fdb569a0908141126x19d2d4c5q6abc99de7e390f94@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/14 Prateek :
> Hi,
>
> Can somebody please provide me link to a good online resource or e-
> book for doing natural language processing programming in Python.
>
> Thanks,
> Prateek
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

Maybe you could start with NLTK
http://www.nltk.org/
Check the toolkit as well as the documentation.

hth
  vbr


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Aug 14 14:29:03 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 20:29:03 +0200
Subject: callable virtual method
In-Reply-To: <4A85A47E.308@wiggly.org>
References: <4A85798B.6020501@sequans.com>	<4A8587A0.6040008@mrabarnett.plus.com>		<7eljaoF2fnkqgU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<4A85A233.9030905@sequans.com> <4A85A47E.308@wiggly.org>
Message-ID: <4A85ACEF.4090901@sequans.com>

Nigel Rantor wrote:
> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>>
>> Your solution will work, for sure. The problem is that it will dumb 
>> down the Base class interface, multiplying the number of methods by 
>> 2. This would not be an issue in many cases, in mine there's already 
>> too much meaningful methods in my class for me to add artificial ones.
>>
>> Thanks for the tip anyway.
>
> I suggest you reconsider.
>
> You asked a question and have been given a standard way of achieving 
> the desired outcome.
>
> It's common in OO to use a Template pattern like this.
>
> If you're not interested in finding out how loads of people have 
> already solved the problem then why ask?
>
> The methods that require overriding can be prefixed with an underscore 
> so that people get a hint that they are an implementation detail 
> rather than part of the public interface.
>
> I don't see your problem, other than a vague aesthetic unease.
>
> Regards,
>
>   n
I understand how refuting some obvious solution may look just stupid. 
You're right, I shouldn't have asked.

By the way I'd like to know if I am I alone to find that

class Stream:
    def start
    def stop
    def reset

is better than

class Stream:
    def start
    def _start
    def stop
    def _stop
    def reset
    def _reset

(try to figure out with 20+ methods)
What you call aesthetic may sometimes fall into readability.


JM



From invalid at invalid  Fri Aug 14 14:38:27 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:38:27 -0500
Subject: Any way to adjust difflib algorithm?
Message-ID: 

I'm trying to use difflib to compare two files, and it's not
producing very useful results.  When comparing two lines where
only a few characters have changed, it usually seems to decide
that a line was deleted/inserted/replaced rather than changed.

Here's how I'm using it:

   #!/usr/bin/python
   import sys,difflib
   
   fromlines = [l.rstrip('\n') for l in open(sys.argv[1]).readlines()]
   tolines   = [l.rstrip('\n') for l in open(sys.argv[2]).readlines()]
   
   print difflib.HtmlDiff().make_file(fromlines,tolines)
   
In my particular usage, no lines have ever been
inserted/deleted, so perhaps I should be running diffs on
individual lines instead?  If I do that, I can't figure out how
to generate HTML output.

Is there a way to tell the differ to try harder to match lines?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! I hope something GOOD
                                  at               came in the mail today so
                               visi.com            I have a REASON to live!!


From davea at ieee.org  Fri Aug 14 14:50:10 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 14:50:10 -0400
Subject: implementing descriptors
In-Reply-To: <85502415-f861-43ab-8827-4184952d8bea@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
References: <39aff5a5-97ec-41f7-ab26-6e4d842b9c5c@r33g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>	
	
	
	<85502415-f861-43ab-8827-4184952d8bea@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A85B1E2.10209@ieee.org>

dippim wrote:
> On Aug 14, 10:48 am, Dave Angel  wrote:
>   
>> dippim wrote:
>>     
>>> On Aug 14, 2:34 am, Raymond Hettinger  wrote:
>>>       
>>>> [David]
>>>>         
>>>>> I am new to Python and I have a question about descriptors.  If I have
>>>>> a class as written below, is there a way to use descriptors to be
>>>>> certain that the datetime in start is always before the one in end?
>>>>>           
>>>>> class foo(object):
>>>>>    def __init__(self,a =e,b = None)
>>>>>       self.start > >>>       self.end >
>>>>> from datetime import datetime
>>>>> c =etime(2009,8,13,6,15,0)
>>>>> d =etime(2009,8,14,12,0,0)
>>>>> afoo =(c,d)
>>>>>           
>>>>> For instance, if the following code were run, I would like to instance
>>>>> of foo to switch the start and end times.
>>>>>           
>>>>> afoo.start =etime(2010,8,13,6,15,0)
>>>>>           
>>>>> I was thinking of using the __set__ descriptor to catch the assignment
>>>>> and reverse the values if necessary, but I can't figure out how to
>>>>> determine which values is being set.
>>>>>           
>>>> You're on the right track, but it is easier to use property() than to
>>>> write your own custom descriptor with __get__ and __set__.
>>>>         
>>>> class foo(object):
>>>>     def __init__(self,a =e,b = None):
>>>>         self._start > >>         self._end > >>     def get_start(self):
>>>>         return self._start
>>>>     def set_start(self, value):
>>>>         if self._end is None or value < self._end:
>>>>             self._start =ue
>>>>         else:
>>>>             self._end =ue
>>>>     start =perty(get_start, set_start)
>>>>     def get_end(self):
>>>>         return self._end
>>>>     def set_end(self, value):
>>>>         if self._start is None or value > self._start:
>>>>             self._end =ue
>>>>         else:
>>>>             self._start =ue
>>>>     end =perty(get_end, set_end)
>>>>         
>>>> Raymond
>>>>         
>>> Raymond,
>>>    This functionality is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!  I'll
>>> be using this to solve my problem.
>>>       
>>>    Now that I'm on the right track, I'm still a bit confused about how
>>> __get__ and __set__ are useful.  Admittedly, I don't need to
>>> understand them to solve this problem, but perhaps they may be useful
>>> in the future.  If I wanted to solve this problem using __get__ and
>>> __set__ could it be done?
>>>       
>>> Thanks Again!
>>>       
>> DANGER- WILL ROBINSON!
>>
>> Don't use this code as-is.  There is a nasty surprise waiting for the
>> caller when he sets start and end, and discovers that one of them gets
>> thrown out, and an old value still remains.
>>
>> obj=oo(3, 5)
>> obj.start = 8
>> obj.end = 12
>> print obj.start, obj.end
>>
>> will print out  3, 12.    Not what the caller expected.
>>     
>
> You're right about this and I appreciate the warning, but I think what
> Raymond was going for was directional accuracy without a great deal of
> his time wasted on details.  The explanation served the purpose of
> moving me forward using property() and I'm thankful for it.
>
>   
>> Four fixes, in order of preference:
>> 0) Trust your user to read and obey your docstrings.  This was what JM
>> was implying, by changing the names of the formal parameters.
>>     
>
> Considering I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer, I don't wish to
> start a philosophical discussion about the relative aptitude and
> capabilities of the people who might use a class I build.  However, I
> will say that as this particular requirement is imposed on this class
> by the writer, shouldn't it be the writer's responsibility to enforce
> it, especially, when the cost of enforcement is so low?
>
>   
>> 1)  make a new method that sets both values, making these two properties
>> readonly.  That new method would make sure the two parameters are
>> self-consistent.  Making the actual values readonly can be done with a
>> descriptor as well, or even a decorator.
>>     
>
>   
>> 2) Raise an exception in the getter methods if they're out of order
>> 3) do the min/max logic on the getter methods, but I don't like that one
>> at all.
>>
>> DaveA
>>     
>
>
>   
I'm going to assume by "writer" you mean yourself?  In other words, the 
interface isn't being forced upon you by someone else?  So I'll continue 
to push for a cleaner/clearer interface.

I'm not going to make any judgment about the relative abilities of you 
and the caller of your class.  You make the final judgment call on how 
much you want to bulletproof your interface.

But occasionally the "automatic fix" causes more problems than it 
solves.  Now, this time you use the word "enforce," which is much 
different than the original implied "fix up."  So I'll assume you mean 
it literally, that you want to detect when the caller has broken the 
rules, and raise an exception in that case.  In either case, you need to 
define what "the rules" are.  And normally this is done by specifying 
invariants.

I think you're declaring an invariant that, at all times, the object has 
two datetime attributes, and that obj.start is no greater than obj.end.  
If the attributes are individually writable, and you do the swap at that 
time, you get into the trouble I described above.  On the other hand, if 
you just do a raise, then your caller would still get into trouble for 
the same sequence of calls.

So the cure is to either make a new method that explicitly changes both, 
or don't do the actual check for order till he tries to read the 
values.   In that latter case, you're changing the invariant subtly, to 
say that if the object is temporarily in an invalid state, one cannot 
call any other methods or fetch values till the state has been 
corrected.  A real pain to describe, but occasionally useful.

This problem of an object temporarily being in an invalid state is not 
an uncommon one.  But most of us have fallen into one of the pitfalls at 
one time or another.

DaveA





From wiggly at wiggly.org  Fri Aug 14 14:53:37 2009
From: wiggly at wiggly.org (Nigel Rantor)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 19:53:37 +0100
Subject: callable virtual method
In-Reply-To: <4A85ACEF.4090901@sequans.com>
References: <4A85798B.6020501@sequans.com>	<4A8587A0.6040008@mrabarnett.plus.com>		<7eljaoF2fnkqgU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>	<4A85A233.9030905@sequans.com>
	<4A85A47E.308@wiggly.org> <4A85ACEF.4090901@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <4A85B2B1.6090906@wiggly.org>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> Nigel Rantor wrote:
>> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>>>
>>> Your solution will work, for sure. The problem is that it will dumb 
>>> down the Base class interface, multiplying the number of methods by 
>>> 2. This would not be an issue in many cases, in mine there's already 
>>> too much meaningful methods in my class for me to add artificial ones.
>>>
>>> Thanks for the tip anyway.
>>
>> I suggest you reconsider.
>>
>> You asked a question and have been given a standard way of achieving 
>> the desired outcome.
>>
>> It's common in OO to use a Template pattern like this.
>>
>> If you're not interested in finding out how loads of people have 
>> already solved the problem then why ask?
>>
>> The methods that require overriding can be prefixed with an underscore 
>> so that people get a hint that they are an implementation detail 
>> rather than part of the public interface.
>>
>> I don't see your problem, other than a vague aesthetic unease.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>   n
> I understand how refuting some obvious solution may look just stupid. 
> You're right, I shouldn't have asked.

I never said it seemed stupid. I was merely curious as to why you'd ask 
a question and ignore solutions.

> By the way I'd like to know if I am I alone to find that
> 
> class Stream:
>    def start
>    def stop
>    def reset
> 
> is better than
> 
> class Stream:
>    def start
>    def _start
>    def stop
>    def _stop
>    def reset
>    def _reset
> 
> (try to figure out with 20+ methods)
> What you call aesthetic may sometimes fall into readability.

Depends on what you mean by "better".

Do you mean pleasing to your eye or performs the task you want it to?

Assuming you are taking the aesthetic viewpoint I think that in this 
case it will depend on how you set out your code.

Realise that all of the underscore methods for your class are 
boilerplate, they simply raise an exception.

They can all be at the end of the file, commented as an entire block to 
be left alone.

Editing the main body of code is then fairly easy, and uncluttered...

e.g.

#
# Stream class blah blah blah
#
class Stream:

     def start

     def stop

     def reset

#
# stubs to be over-ridden in sub-classes, add one for each
# method that requires overriding.
#
     def _start
     def _stop
     def _reset

Regards,

   Nigel

p.s. Please take this in the spirit it is offered. I'm trying to stop 
you from ignoring a good suggestion, not make you feel like a fool.


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Fri Aug 14 14:56:58 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 14:56:58 -0400
Subject: Any way to adjust difflib algorithm?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908141156y2567464aod75aaf1a668c1d33@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 2:38 PM, Grant Edwards wrote:
> I'm trying to use difflib to compare two files, and it's not
> producing very useful results. ?When comparing two lines where
> only a few characters have changed, it usually seems to decide
> that a line was deleted/inserted/replaced rather than changed.

> Is there a way to tell the differ to try harder to match lines?

You could use a wordwise diff instead: http://www.gnu.org/software/wdiff/
Obviously that's not a pure Python solution though.

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From invalid at invalid  Fri Aug 14 15:18:59 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 14:18:59 -0500
Subject: Any way to adjust difflib algorithm?
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-14, Grant Edwards  wrote:

> I'm trying to use difflib to compare two files, and it's not
> producing very useful results.  When comparing two lines where
> only a few characters have changed, it usually seems to decide
> that a line was deleted/inserted/replaced rather than changed.

[...]

> In my particular usage, no lines have ever been
> inserted/deleted, so perhaps I should be running diffs on
> individual lines instead?  If I do that, I can't figure out
> how to generate HTML output.

I ended up using the SequenceMatcher on individual pairs of
lines and generating my own HTML based on the results of
get_matching_blocks().

That produced the desired results.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! I have a very good
                                  at               DENTAL PLAN.  Thank you.
                               visi.com            


From davea at ieee.org  Fri Aug 14 15:24:39 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:24:39 -0400
Subject: callable virtual method
In-Reply-To: <4A85ACEF.4090901@sequans.com>
References: <4A85798B.6020501@sequans.com>	<4A8587A0.6040008@mrabarnett.plus.com>		<7eljaoF2fnkqgU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>	<4A85A233.9030905@sequans.com>
	<4A85A47E.308@wiggly.org> <4A85ACEF.4090901@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <4A85B9F7.4010201@ieee.org>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> 
Nigel 
> Rantor wrote:
>> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>>>
>>> Your solution will work, for sure. The problem is that it will dumb 
>>> down the Base class interface, multiplying the number of methods by 
>>> 2. This would not be an issue in many cases, in mine there's already 
>>> too much meaningful methods in my class for me to add artificial ones.
>>>
>>> Thanks for the tip anyway.
>>
>> I suggest you reconsider.
>>
>> You asked a question and have been given a standard way of achieving 
>> the desired outcome.
>>
>> It's common in OO to use a Template pattern like this.
>>
>> If you're not interested in finding out how loads of people have 
>> already solved the problem then why ask?
>>
>> The methods that require overriding can be prefixed with an 
>> underscore so that people get a hint that they are an implementation 
>> detail rather than part of the public interface.
>>
>> I don't see your problem, other than a vague aesthetic unease.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>   n
> I understand how refuting some obvious solution may look just stupid. 
> You're right, I shouldn't have asked.
>
> By the way I'd like to know if I am I alone to find that
>
> class Stream:
>    def start
>    def stop
>    def reset
>
> is better than
>
> class Stream:
>    def start
>    def _start
>    def stop
>    def _stop
>    def reset
>    def _reset
>
> (try to figure out with 20+ methods)
> What you call aesthetic may sometimes fall into readability.
>
>
> JM
>
>
> 

>
Usually when one defines an abstract base class, one expects many people 
will derive from it, as opposed to only one having to write it.  So if 
the base must be "ugly" according to some definition, so be it.  
Aesthetics are quite subjective.

Nigel's approach has another benefit not stated, which is to keep the 
child class code simpler.  They avoid the need to call any base class 
method to access the common logic.  The downside is it assumes that the 
common logic will always be either at the beginning or always at the end 
of the child classes implementation.  That's because the base class has 
hardcoded where in its implementation to call the child class method.

Anyway, without arguing for or against either approach, I'd point out 
that you could have an extra formal parameter in the base method, which 
is a private signal from the child class that this is the internal 
call.  Missing such a formal parameter would then trigger the "missing 
method in derived class" error message.  You'd check such a parameter 
the same place as you're now checking the object's type.

DaveA




From kee at kagi.com  Fri Aug 14 15:28:54 2009
From: kee at kagi.com (Kee Nethery)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 12:28:54 -0700
Subject: Komodo(!)
In-Reply-To: <-7ydndQXQODmNxjXRVn_vwA@giganews.com>
References: <-7ydndQXQODmNxjXRVn_vwA@giganews.com>
Message-ID: 

 From the web site it looks like the free version does not include the  
debugging stuff.

I've been using the paid version with the debugger functionality and I  
find it easy to use and incredibly nice for trying to understand what  
the code is doing. The built-in debugger has saved me tons of time,  
especially when troubleshooting CGIs.

I'm using a Mac and of the Python IDEs I looked at, Komodo had the  
easiest to use user interface, in my opinion.

Kee


From kennyken747 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 15:29:12 2009
From: kennyken747 at gmail.com (kennyken747)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 12:29:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Something like wibiya?
Message-ID: <78de82ac-72d2-472f-92ba-d0d3cb2e0b99@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>

Would Python be an efficient language to go about coding something
like the toolbar from http://www.wibiya.com/index.php ?

And then, how would I implement it?


-Kenny Ledet
Owner of Hotontheblock.com, Urban News Blog


From davea at ieee.org  Fri Aug 14 15:32:40 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:32:40 -0400
Subject: retrieve item from nested list given index tuple
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<02958ab2$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <4A85BBD8.7000409@ieee.org>

Colin J. Williams wrote:
> 
Steven 
> D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:54:54 +0000, Alan G Isaac wrote:
>>
>>> `lst` is a nested list
>>>
>>> `tpl` is the indexes for an item in the list
>>
>>> What is the nice way to retrieve the item? (Speedy access is nice.)
>>
>> Assuming you want to do this frequently, write a helper function, 
>> then use it:
>>
>> # Untested
>> def extract(nested, indexes):
>>     for index in indexes:
>>         nested = nested[index]
>>     return nested
>
> This looks OK for the first level of nesting.  We are not told much 
> about tpl but suppose that:
>
> lst= [a, [b, [c, d]], [e, f]] and that we wish to retrieve d and f 
> from lst. tpl would need to be something like [[1, 1, 1], [2, 1]].
>
> If that is the requirement, then Untested is only a step along the 
> road, extract could be made recursive.
>
> Colin W.
> 

You missed the point:   he's retrieving *an*  item from a list that's 
nested arbitrarily.  Each item in the tpl (tuple) is a simple integer.


DaveA



From cjwilliams43 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 15:55:29 2009
From: cjwilliams43 at gmail.com (Colin J. Williams)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:55:29 -0400
Subject: retrieve item from nested list given index tuple
In-Reply-To: <4A85BBD8.7000409@ieee.org>
References: 
	<02958ab2$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	 <4A85BBD8.7000409@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <4A85C131.60905@ncf.ca>



Dave Angel wrote:
> Colin J. Williams wrote:
>> 
Steven 
>> D'Aprano wrote:
>>> On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:54:54 +0000, Alan G Isaac wrote:
>>>
>>>> `lst` is a nested list
>>>>
>>>> `tpl` is the indexes for an item in the list
>>>
>>>> What is the nice way to retrieve the item? (Speedy access is nice.)
>>>
>>> Assuming you want to do this frequently, write a helper function, 
>>> then use it:
>>>
>>> # Untested
>>> def extract(nested, indexes):
>>>     for index in indexes:
>>>         nested = nested[index]
>>>     return nested
>>
>> This looks OK for the first level of nesting.  We are not told much 
>> about tpl but suppose that:
>>
>> lst= [a, [b, [c, d]], [e, f]] and that we wish to retrieve d and f 
>> from lst. tpl would need to be something like [[1, 1, 1], [2, 1]].
>>
>> If that is the requirement, then Untested is only a step along the 
>> road, extract could be made recursive.
>>
>> Colin W.
>> 
>
> You missed the point:   he's retrieving *an*  item from a list that's 
> nested arbitrarily.  Each item in the tpl (tuple) is a simple integer.
>
>
> DaveA
Yes, you are right.

Colin W.
>
>


From mensanator at aol.com  Fri Aug 14 16:07:40 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:07:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python Permutations Problem
References: 
Message-ID: <3ba39961-aec4-4034-beac-9552bb8a7ee6@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 14, 11:28?am, Asanka Wasala  wrote:
> Hi
> I am developing a spell checker for my language, and I came across
> solving an interesing problem. It would be great if you can suggest
> me ?an optimized solution for the problem described below:
>
> I have certain group of letters like these:
>
> Group #1: c,r,b
> Group #2: a,z,k
> Group #3: h,t
> .
> .
>
> Letters within the same group can be substituted/replaced with the
> rest of the letters in that group.
>
> (ie. Group #1 means letter 'c' can be replaced with either 'r' or 'b',
> and letter r can be replaced with either c or b, and letter b can be
> replaced with either r or c)
>
> A group can have upto 3 letters, and letters do not overlap between
> groups. There can be upto 25 such groups.
> Given a word containing above letters, (e.g. 'cat'.) I want to
> generate all possible words by subsituting letters in the groups.
>
> eg. expected output:
>
> cat ? ? rat ? ? bat
> czt ? ? rzt ? ? bzt
> ckt ? ? rkt ? ? bkt
> cah ? ? rah ? ? bah
> czh ? ? rzh ? ? bzh
> ckh ? ? rkh ? ? bkh
>
> My code is given below. But for complex words like 'cccccccccczzk' it
> thows the 'maximum recursion depth exceeded' error. Therefore, can you
> suggest me an optimized solution to achive the above task? Thanks in
> advance.
> --------------------------
> CODE-------------------------------------------
> #-*- coding: UTF-8 -*-
> import re
> def getPermutations(word):
> ? ? def getSimilarLetters(letter):
> ? ? ? ? pattern=u"|c,r,b|a,z,k|h,t|"
> ? ? ? ? list=[]
> ? ? ? ? ptrn=re.compile("(?P\|(.?,)*?"+letter+"(,.)*?\|)")
> ? ? ? ? k=ptrn.search(pattern)
> ? ? ? ? if k:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? letterlist=k.group("grp")[1:-1]
> ? ? ? ? ? ? list=letterlist.split(",")
> ? ? ? ? ? ? list.remove(letter)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? return list
> ? ? ? ? else:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? return letter
>
> ? ? list=[]
>
> ? ? def perm(word):
> ? ? ? ? posi=0
> ? ? ? ? wrd=word
> ? ? ? ? for w in word:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? posi=posi+1
> ? ? ? ? ? ? lst=getSimilarLetters(w)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? if len(lst)>0:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? for l in lst:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? newwrd=wrd[:posi-1]+l+wrd[posi:]
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? if not (newwrd in list):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? list.append(newwrd)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? perm(newwrd)
>
> ? ? try:
> ? ? ? ? perm(word)
> ? ? except RuntimeError:
> ? ? ? ? list=[]
> ? ? ? ? list.append("error")
> ? ? return list
>
> list=getPermutations(u"cat")
>
> for i in list:
> ? ? print i.encode('utf-8')
> --------------------------------------------END of
> CODE-----------------------------------------------------------------------?------

IDLE 2.6.1
>>> import itertools as it
>>> for i in it.product('crb','azk','ht'): print ''.join(i),

cah cat czh czt ckh ckt rah rat rzh rzt rkh rkt bah bat bzh bzt bkh
bkt


From max at alcyone.com  Fri Aug 14 16:10:57 2009
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:10:57 -0700
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in
	string literals]
In-Reply-To: 
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2009-08-14, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
>> What the hell
>> would it actually do???
> 
> IIRC in C++, 
> 
>    cout << "Hello world";
> 
> is equivalent to this in C:
> 
>    printf("Hellow world");
> 
> or this in Python:
> 
>    print "hellow world"

Well, plus or minus newlines.

-- 
Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
  San Jose, CA, USA && 37 18 N 121 57 W && AIM/Y!M/Skype erikmaxfrancis
   It's hard to say what I want my legacy to be when I'm long gone.
    -- Aaliyah


From invalid at invalid  Fri Aug 14 16:13:31 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:13:31 -0500
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in
	string literals]
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <68-dnWijX7T2WBjXnZ2dnUVZ_t6dnZ2d@posted.visi>

On 2009-08-14, Erik Max Francis  wrote:
> Grant Edwards wrote:
>> On 2009-08-14, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
>>> What the hell
>>> would it actually do???
>> 
>> IIRC in C++, 
>> 
>>    cout << "Hello world";
>> 
>> is equivalent to this in C:
>> 
>>    printf("Hellow world");
>> 
>> or this in Python:
>> 
>>    print "hellow world"
>
> Well, plus or minus newlines.

And a few miscellaneous typos...

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! I don't understand
                                  at               the HUMOUR of the THREE
                               visi.com            STOOGES!!


From max at alcyone.com  Fri Aug 14 16:18:04 2009
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:18:04 -0700
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in
	string literals]
In-Reply-To: <68-dnWijX7T2WBjXnZ2dnUVZ_t6dnZ2d@posted.visi>
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<68-dnWijX7T2WBjXnZ2dnUVZ_t6dnZ2d@posted.visi>
Message-ID: 

Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2009-08-14, Erik Max Francis  wrote:
>> Grant Edwards wrote:
>>> On 2009-08-14, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
>>>> What the hell
>>>> would it actually do???
>>> IIRC in C++, 
>>>
>>>    cout << "Hello world";
>>>
>>> is equivalent to this in C:
>>>
>>>    printf("Hellow world");
>>>
>>> or this in Python:
>>>
>>>    print "hellow world"
>> Well, plus or minus newlines.
> 
> And a few miscellaneous typos...

... and includes and namespaces :-).


-- 
Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
  San Jose, CA, USA && 37 18 N 121 57 W && AIM/Y!M/Skype erikmaxfrancis
   It's hard to say what I want my legacy to be when I'm long gone.
    -- Aaliyah


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Aug 14 16:22:10 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 22:22:10 +0200
Subject: callable virtual method
In-Reply-To: <02959b54$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <4A85798B.6020501@sequans.com>	<4A8587A0.6040008@mrabarnett.plus.com>	
	<02959b54$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4A85C772.504@sequans.com>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:49:26 +0200, Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>
>   
>> Sorry guys (means guys *and* gals :op ), I realized I've not been able
>> to describe precisely what I want to do. I'd like the base class to be
>> virtual (aka abstract). However it may be abstract but it does not mean
>> it cannot do some usefull stuff.
>>
>>
>> Here is the schema of my abstract methods :
>>
>> class Interface(object):
>>     def method(self):
>>         # ---------------------
>>         # some common stuff executed here
>>         # ---------------------
>>         print 'hello world'
>>         # ---------------------
>>         # here shall stand child specific stuff (empty in the interface
>> method)
>>         # ---------------------
>>         if self.__class__.method == Interface.method:
>>             raise NotImplementedError('You should have read the f******
>> manual ! You must override this method.')
>>     
>
>
> Okay, so I want to sub-class your Interface class. As you said, the 
> methods in the abstract class are still useful, so in my class, I don't 
> need any extra functionality for some methods -- I'm happy with just the 
> "common stuff". So I use normal OO techniques and over-ride just the 
> methods I need to over-ride:
>
>   
Sometimes the base is doing cool stuff but incomplete stuff which 
requires knowledge only hold by the sub class. In my case the interface 
is a high level interface for a software that can run on multiple 
hardware platforms. Only the sub class has knowledge on how to operate 
the hardware, but no matter the hardware it still produces the same effect.

Let's say I have 50 different hardwares, I'll have 50 sub classes of 
Interface with the 'start' method to define. It wouldn't be appropriate 
(OO programming)to write 50 times '_log.debug('Starting %s' % self)' in 
each child start method when the simple task of logging the call can be 
nicely handled by the base class.

In the meantime, I must make sure  the user, who is not a python guru in 
this case, has implemented the start method for his hardware, because 
only him knows how to effectively start this hardware. I don't want him 
to come to me saying, "I got no error, still my hardware does not 
start". You can then blame him for not reading the docs, but it will 
still be less expensive to throw a nice exception with an accurate feedback.

[snip]
> class VerboseGoodChild(Interface):
>     # forced to over-ride methods for no good reason
>   

Definitely no !! This is the purpose of an interface class: to force 
people to write these methods. They *are* required, if they were not, 
they would not belong to the Interface.

JM


From no.email at please.post  Fri Aug 14 16:23:20 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 20:23:20 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Splitting on '^' ?
Message-ID: 



Sometimes I want to split a string into lines, preserving the
end-of-line markers.  In Perl this is really easy to do, by splitting
on the beginning-of-line anchor:

  @lines = split /^/, $string;

But I can't figure out how to do the same thing with Python.  E.g.:

>>> import re
>>> re.split('^', 'spam\nham\neggs\n')
['spam\nham\neggs\n']
>>> re.split('(?m)^', 'spam\nham\neggs\n')
['spam\nham\neggs\n']
>>> bol_re = re.compile('^', re.M)
>>> bol_re.split('spam\nham\neggs\n')
['spam\nham\neggs\n']

Am I doing something wrong?

kynn


From guthrie at mum.edu  Fri Aug 14 16:25:02 2009
From: guthrie at mum.edu (guthrie)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:25:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: py-rrdTool - install fails
Message-ID: 

I want to do some rrd in a python cgi script, but am having trouble
getting an easy install module.

py-rrdTool looks good, but is distributed in c source, and is missing
a header file in the distribution. Thus the install fails when it
tries to reference rrd.h which is not there.

Are there better rrd modules to use, or a compiled version of this, or
other suggestions?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
building 'rrdtool._rrdtool' extension
C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio 9.0\VC\BIN\cl.exe /c /nologo /
Ox /MD /W3 /GS- /DNDEBUG -I/usr/local\include "-IE:\PLang\Active Python
\include" "-IE:\PLang\Active Python\PC" /Tcsrc/_rrdtoolmodule.c /
Fobuild\temp.win32-2.6\Release\src/_rrdtoolmodule.obj
_rrdtoolmodule.c
src/_rrdtoolmodule.c(34) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include
file: 'rrd.h': No such file or directory
error: command '"C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio 9.0\VC\BIN
\cl.exe"' failed with exit status 2

C:\Documents and Settings\guthrie\Desktop\py-rrdtool-0.2.1>


From gherron at islandtraining.com  Fri Aug 14 16:36:20 2009
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:36:20 -0700
Subject: Splitting on '^' ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A85CAC4.2000401@islandtraining.com>

kj wrote:
> Sometimes I want to split a string into lines, preserving the
> end-of-line markers.  In Perl this is really easy to do, by splitting
> on the beginning-of-line anchor:
>
>   @lines = split /^/, $string;
>
> But I can't figure out how to do the same thing with Python.  E.g.:
>
>   
>>>> import re
>>>> re.split('^', 'spam\nham\neggs\n')
>>>>         
> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']
>   
>>>> re.split('(?m)^', 'spam\nham\neggs\n')
>>>>         
> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']
>   
>>>> bol_re = re.compile('^', re.M)
>>>> bol_re.split('spam\nham\neggs\n')
>>>>         
> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']
>
> Am I doing something wrong?
>   
Just split on the EOL character:  the "\n":
re.split('\n', 'spam\nham\neggs\n')
['spam', 'ham', 'eggs', '']

The "^" and "$" characters do not match END-OF-LINE, but rather the  
END-OF-STRING, which was doing you no good.


Gary Herron




> kynn
>   

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From tycho at tycho.ws  Fri Aug 14 16:38:49 2009
From: tycho at tycho.ws (Tycho Andersen)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:38:49 -0500
Subject: Splitting on '^' ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <49b3a7400908141338v7ef43e19y9b8b813b747dc897@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 3:23 PM, kj wrote:
> [snip]
>>>> import re
>>>> re.split('^', 'spam\nham\neggs\n')
> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']
>>>> re.split('(?m)^', 'spam\nham\neggs\n')
> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']
>>>> bol_re = re.compile('^', re.M)
>>>> bol_re.split('spam\nham\neggs\n')
> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']
>
> Am I doing something wrong?

Why not just:

>>> re.split(r'\n', 'spam\nham\neggs')

\t


From lists at cheimes.de  Fri Aug 14 16:39:56 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 22:39:56 +0200
Subject: py-rrdTool - install fails
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A85CB9C.5060305@cheimes.de>

guthrie schrieb:
> I want to do some rrd in a python cgi script, but am having trouble
> getting an easy install module.
> 
> py-rrdTool looks good, but is distributed in c source, and is missing
> a header file in the distribution. Thus the install fails when it
> tries to reference rrd.h which is not there.
> 
> Are there better rrd modules to use, or a compiled version of this, or
> other suggestions?
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> building 'rrdtool._rrdtool' extension
> C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio 9.0\VC\BIN\cl.exe /c /nologo /
> Ox /MD /W3 /GS- /DNDEBUG -I/usr/local\include "-IE:\PLang\Active Python
> \include" "-IE:\PLang\Active Python\PC" /Tcsrc/_rrdtoolmodule.c /
> Fobuild\temp.win32-2.6\Release\src/_rrdtoolmodule.obj
> _rrdtoolmodule.c
> src/_rrdtoolmodule.c(34) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include
> file: 'rrd.h': No such file or directory
> error: command '"C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio 9.0\VC\BIN
> \cl.exe"' failed with exit status 2
> 
> C:\Documents and Settings\guthrie\Desktop\py-rrdtool-0.2.1>

rrd.h is part of the rrdtools. You need to install rrdtools plus all its 
dependencies. Have a lot of fun ;)

Christian


From lists at cheimes.de  Fri Aug 14 16:39:56 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 22:39:56 +0200
Subject: py-rrdTool - install fails
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A85CB9C.5060305@cheimes.de>

guthrie schrieb:
> I want to do some rrd in a python cgi script, but am having trouble
> getting an easy install module.
> 
> py-rrdTool looks good, but is distributed in c source, and is missing
> a header file in the distribution. Thus the install fails when it
> tries to reference rrd.h which is not there.
> 
> Are there better rrd modules to use, or a compiled version of this, or
> other suggestions?
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> building 'rrdtool._rrdtool' extension
> C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio 9.0\VC\BIN\cl.exe /c /nologo /
> Ox /MD /W3 /GS- /DNDEBUG -I/usr/local\include "-IE:\PLang\Active Python
> \include" "-IE:\PLang\Active Python\PC" /Tcsrc/_rrdtoolmodule.c /
> Fobuild\temp.win32-2.6\Release\src/_rrdtoolmodule.obj
> _rrdtoolmodule.c
> src/_rrdtoolmodule.c(34) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include
> file: 'rrd.h': No such file or directory
> error: command '"C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio 9.0\VC\BIN
> \cl.exe"' failed with exit status 2
> 
> C:\Documents and Settings\guthrie\Desktop\py-rrdtool-0.2.1>

rrd.h is part of the rrdtools. You need to install rrdtools plus all its 
dependencies. Have a lot of fun ;)

Christian



From gabriel at opensuse.org  Fri Aug 14 16:41:36 2009
From: gabriel at opensuse.org (Gabriel)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 17:41:36 -0300
Subject: Splitting on '^' ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <1adde6890908141341r29644770pc8b57a83369d4546@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 5:23 PM, kj wrote:
>
>>>> import re
>>>> re.split('^', 'spam\nham\neggs\n')
> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']
>>>> re.split('(?m)^', 'spam\nham\neggs\n')
> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']
>>>> bol_re = re.compile('^', re.M)
>>>> bol_re.split('spam\nham\neggs\n')
> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']
>
> Am I doing something wrong?
>

Maybe this:

>>> import re
>>> te = 'spam\nham\neggs\n'
>>> pat = '\n'
>>> re.split(pat,te)
['spam', 'ham', 'eggs', '']

-- 
Kind Regards


From Brian.Mingus at colorado.edu  Fri Aug 14 16:43:45 2009
From: Brian.Mingus at colorado.edu (Brian)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 14:43:45 -0600
Subject: Splitting on '^' ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <9839a05c0908141343v37520d39i2833470f69528d95@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 2:23 PM, kj  wrote:

>
>
> Sometimes I want to split a string into lines, preserving the
> end-of-line markers.  In Perl this is really easy to do, by splitting
> on the beginning-of-line anchor:
>
>  @lines = split /^/, $string;
>
> But I can't figure out how to do the same thing with Python.  E.g.:
>
> >>> import re
> >>> re.split('^', 'spam\nham\neggs\n')
> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']
> >>> re.split('(?m)^', 'spam\nham\neggs\n')
> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']
> >>> bol_re = re.compile('^', re.M)
> >>> bol_re.split('spam\nham\neggs\n')
> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']
>
> Am I doing something wrong?
>
> kynn
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

You shouldn't use a regular expression for that.

>>> from time import time
>>> start=time();'spam\nham\neggs\n'.split('\n');print time()-start;
['spam', 'ham', 'eggs', '']
4.6968460083e-05
>>> import re
>>> start=time();re.split(r'\n', 'spam\nham\neggs');print time()-start;
['spam', 'ham', 'eggs']
0.000284910202026
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From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Fri Aug 14 16:44:27 2009
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 16:44:27 -0400
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in 
	string literals]
In-Reply-To: 
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Douglas Alan wrote:

>
> P.S. Overloading "left shift" to mean "output" does indeed seem a bit
> sketchy, but in 15 years of C++ programming, I've never seen it cause
> any confusion or bugs.



The only reason it hasn't is because people use it in "Hello World". I bet
some newbie C++ programmers get confused the first time they see << used to
shift.
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From abecedarian314159 at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 14 16:55:16 2009
From: abecedarian314159 at yahoo.com (William)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:55:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Komodo(!)
In-Reply-To: 
References: <-7ydndQXQODmNxjXRVn_vwA@giganews.com>
	
Message-ID: <553649.43098.qm@web110605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Personally, I rather like Wing



________________________________
From: Kee Nethery 
To: python-list at python.org
Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 3:28:54 PM
Subject: Re: Komodo(!)

>From the web site it looks like the free version does not include the debugging stuff.

I've been using the paid version with the debugger functionality and I find it easy to use and incredibly nice for trying to understand what the code is doing. The built-in debugger has saved me tons of time, especially when troubleshooting CGIs.

I'm using a Mac and of the Python IDEs I looked at, Komodo had the easiest to use user interface, in my opinion.

Kee
--http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



      
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From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Aug 14 17:00:01 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 23:00:01 +0200
Subject: callable virtual method
In-Reply-To: <4A85B9F7.4010201@ieee.org>
References: <4A85798B.6020501@sequans.com>	<4A8587A0.6040008@mrabarnett.plus.com>		<7eljaoF2fnkqgU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>	<4A85A233.9030905@sequans.com>
	<4A85A47E.308@wiggly.org> <4A85ACEF.4090901@sequans.com>
	<4A85B9F7.4010201@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <4A85D051.2080004@sequans.com>

Dave Angel wrote:
> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>> 
Nigel 
>> Rantor wrote:
>>> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Your solution will work, for sure. The problem is that it will dumb 
>>>> down the Base class interface, multiplying the number of methods by 
>>>> 2. This would not be an issue in many cases, in mine there's 
>>>> already too much meaningful methods in my class for me to add 
>>>> artificial ones.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the tip anyway.
>>>
>>> I suggest you reconsider.
>>>
>>> You asked a question and have been given a standard way of achieving 
>>> the desired outcome.
>>>
>>> It's common in OO to use a Template pattern like this.
>>>
>>> If you're not interested in finding out how loads of people have 
>>> already solved the problem then why ask?
>>>
>>> The methods that require overriding can be prefixed with an 
>>> underscore so that people get a hint that they are an implementation 
>>> detail rather than part of the public interface.
>>>
>>> I don't see your problem, other than a vague aesthetic unease.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>>   n
>> I understand how refuting some obvious solution may look just stupid. 
>> You're right, I shouldn't have asked.
>>
>> By the way I'd like to know if I am I alone to find that
>>
>> class Stream:
>>    def start
>>    def stop
>>    def reset
>>
>> is better than
>>
>> class Stream:
>>    def start
>>    def _start
>>    def stop
>>    def _stop
>>    def reset
>>    def _reset
>>
>> (try to figure out with 20+ methods)
>> What you call aesthetic may sometimes fall into readability.
>>
>>
>> JM
>>
>>
>> 

>>
> Usually when one defines an abstract base class, one expects many 
> people will derive from it, as opposed to only one having to write 
> it.  So if the base must be "ugly" according to some definition, so be 
> it.  Aesthetics are quite subjective.
>
> Nigel's approach has another benefit not stated, which is to keep the 
> child class code simpler.  They avoid the need to call any base class 
> method to access the common logic.  The downside is it assumes that 
> the common logic will always be either at the beginning or always at 
> the end of the child classes implementation.  That's because the base 
> class has hardcoded where in its implementation to call the child 
> class method.
>
I think this is a severe issue.
You prevent the sub class from writing
def foo(self):
    pre()
    Base.foo(self)
    post()
> Anyway, without arguing for or against either approach, I'd point out 
> that you could have an extra formal parameter in the base method, 
> which is a private signal from the child class that this is the 
> internal call.  Missing such a formal parameter would then trigger the 
> "missing method in derived class" error message.  You'd check such a 
> parameter the same place as you're now checking the object's type.
>
> DaveA
>
>


talking about approaches:

1/
class Interface:
    def foo(self):
       if self.__class__.foo == Interface.foo:
          raise NotImplementedError

2/
class Interface:
    def foo(self):
       self._foo()

    def _foo(sef):
       raise NotImplementedError

Are they so different ? They both require about the same amount of extra 
characters, they're both readable. The second is a very classic OO 
layout, the first is more flexible for the sub classes and spare some 
method definition.

This thread may live again, I cannot say but I'd like to thanks all who 
gave me their valuable idea on the subject, I mean it. Please don't take 
my skepticism as a lack of consideration.

JM




From lists at sourceillustrated.com  Fri Aug 14 17:04:17 2009
From: lists at sourceillustrated.com (John Wells)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 17:04:17 -0400
Subject: Komodo(!)
In-Reply-To: 
References: <-7ydndQXQODmNxjXRVn_vwA@giganews.com>
	
Message-ID: <44dddf400908141404v2ec276bepd6399d3672ed7f49@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 3:28 PM, Kee Nethery wrote:
> From the web site it looks like the free version does not include the
> debugging stuff.
>
> I've been using the paid version with the debugger functionality and I find
> it easy to use and incredibly nice for trying to understand what the code is
> doing. The built-in debugger has saved me tons of time, especially when
> troubleshooting CGIs.
>
> I'm using a Mac and of the Python IDEs I looked at, Komodo had the easiest
> to use user interface, in my opinion.

I've been using Netbeans with Python support and have enjoyed it. Have
you tried it? It has integrated debugging, etc as well, and the price
(free) is right. I'm curious how it compares to Komodo....

Thanks,
John


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Fri Aug 14 17:20:06 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 14:20:06 -0700
Subject: Splitting on '^' ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A85D506.7060104@stoneleaf.us>

kj wrote:
> 
> Sometimes I want to split a string into lines, preserving the
> end-of-line markers.  In Perl this is really easy to do, by splitting
> on the beginning-of-line anchor:
> 
>   @lines = split /^/, $string;
> 
> But I can't figure out how to do the same thing with Python.  E.g.:
> 
> 
>>>>import re
>>>>re.split('^', 'spam\nham\neggs\n')
> 
> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']
> 
>>>>re.split('(?m)^', 'spam\nham\neggs\n')
> 
> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']
> 
>>>>bol_re = re.compile('^', re.M)
>>>>bol_re.split('spam\nham\neggs\n')
> 
> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']
> 
> Am I doing something wrong?
> 
> kynn

As you probably noticed from the other responses:  No, you can't split 
on _and_ keep the splitby text.

Looks like you'll have to roll your own.

def splitat(text, sep):
     result = [line + sep for line in text.split(sep)]
     if result[-1] == sep:  # either remove extra element
        result.pop()
     else:                   # or extra sep from last element
         result[-1] = result[-1][:-len(sep)]
     return result


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Aug 14 17:22:05 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 22:22:05 +0100
Subject: Splitting on '^' ?
In-Reply-To: <4A85CAC4.2000401@islandtraining.com>
References: 
	<4A85CAC4.2000401@islandtraining.com>
Message-ID: <4A85D57D.40602@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Gary Herron wrote:
> kj wrote:
>> Sometimes I want to split a string into lines, preserving the
>> end-of-line markers.  In Perl this is really easy to do, by splitting
>> on the beginning-of-line anchor:
>>
>>   @lines = split /^/, $string;
>>
>> But I can't figure out how to do the same thing with Python.  E.g.:
>>
>>   
>>>>> import re
>>>>> re.split('^', 'spam\nham\neggs\n')
>>>>>         
>> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']
>>   
>>>>> re.split('(?m)^', 'spam\nham\neggs\n')
>>>>>         
>> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']
>>   
>>>>> bol_re = re.compile('^', re.M)
>>>>> bol_re.split('spam\nham\neggs\n')
>>>>>         
>> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']
>>
>> Am I doing something wrong?
>>   
> Just split on the EOL character:  the "\n":
> re.split('\n', 'spam\nham\neggs\n')
> ['spam', 'ham', 'eggs', '']
> 
> The "^" and "$" characters do not match END-OF-LINE, but rather the  
> END-OF-STRING, which was doing you no good.
> 
With the MULTLINE flag "^" matches START-OF-LINE and "$" matches
END-OF-LINE or END-OF-STRING.

The current re module won't split on a zero-width match.


From joseph.h.garvin at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 17:22:12 2009
From: joseph.h.garvin at gmail.com (Joseph Garvin)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 16:22:12 -0500
Subject: bug?: python-config --ldflags gives incorrect output
Message-ID: 

On the latest stable ubuntu:

$ python-config --ldflags
-L/usr/lib/python2.6/config -lpthread -ldl -lutil -lm -lpython2.6

In case the user is statically linking, I believe the -lpython2.6
should go before the other -l's. Also, -lz is missing so whenever you
try to link against python you get tons of errors about missing PyZlib
references. Am I right in thinking these are bugs?


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Fri Aug 14 17:30:45 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 23:30:45 +0200
Subject: something like perl's Mail::GPG ?
References: <4365602b-e174-4419-a1f7-44dde1b66b0c@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

>>>>> akonsu  (a) wrote:

>a> hello,
>a> i am looking for a module with functionality similar to that of the
>a> Perl's Mail::GPG package. I need to verify multipart emails that are
>a> PGP-signed.

I don't know Perl's GPG package, but to verify PGP-signed stuff you can
use gnupg. It doesn't have special code for mail messages, however. It
is just a Pythonic wrapper facade around the gpg program.

However, it doesn't do the PGP/MIME stuff, so you will have to transform
the MIME messages into something that GPG understands. This isn't hard
and you can find a short python script that does it on
http://domnit.org/2008/03/clearmime. It describes how you can use it as
a program and pipe the message through it into gpg --verify. You can
also use it as a module if you rename it to clearmime.py, and use it
with the recently released gnupg module. It is released under GPL.
However it wouldn't be hard to write something similar yourself, for
example if you want to feed it existing Message objects rather than strings.
Example:

import os
from gnupg import GPG
from clearmime import clarify

msgtxt = open('testgpg.msg').read()
cl = clarify(msgtxt)
gpg=GPG(gnupghome = os.path.join(os.environ['HOME'], '.gnupg'))

if gpg.verify(cl):
    print "Signature correct"
else:
    print "Signature incorrect"

-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From asmodai at in-nomine.org  Fri Aug 14 17:41:50 2009
From: asmodai at in-nomine.org (Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 23:41:50 +0200
Subject: Natural Language Processing in Python
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <20090814214150.GM30241@nexus.in-nomine.org>

-On [20090814 18:39], Prateek (prateekkakirwar at gmail.com) wrote:
>Can somebody please provide me link to a good online resource or e-
>book for doing natural language processing programming in Python.

http://www.nltk.org/ comes to mind.

-- 
Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven  / asmodai
????? ?????? ??? ?? ??????
http://www.in-nomine.org/ | http://www.rangaku.org/ | GPG: 2EAC625B
Death comes for us all, we can only choose how to face it when it comes.


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Fri Aug 14 17:48:43 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 23:48:43 +0200
Subject: Splitting on '^' ?
References: 
Message-ID: 

>>>>> kj  (k) wrote:

>k> Sometimes I want to split a string into lines, preserving the
>k> end-of-line markers.  In Perl this is really easy to do, by splitting
>k> on the beginning-of-line anchor:

>k>   @lines = split /^/, $string;

>k> But I can't figure out how to do the same thing with Python.  E.g.:

>>>>> import re
>>>>> re.split('^', 'spam\nham\neggs\n')
>k> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']
>>>>> re.split('(?m)^', 'spam\nham\neggs\n')
>k> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']
>>>>> bol_re = re.compile('^', re.M)
>>>>> bol_re.split('spam\nham\neggs\n')
>k> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']

>k> Am I doing something wrong?

It says that in the doc of 're':
Note that split will never split a string on an empty pattern match. For
example: 
>>> re.split('x*', 'foo')
['foo']
>>> re.split("(?m)^$", "foo\n\nbar\n")
['foo\n\nbar\n']
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From rurpy at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 14 18:01:29 2009
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:01:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Splitting on '^' ?
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 14, 2:23?pm, kj  wrote:
> Sometimes I want to split a string into lines, preserving the
> end-of-line markers. ?In Perl this is really easy to do, by splitting
> on the beginning-of-line anchor:
>
> ? @lines = split /^/, $string;
>
> But I can't figure out how to do the same thing with Python. ?E.g.:

Why not this?

>>> lines = 'spam\nham\neggs\n'.splitlines (True)
>>> lines
['spam\n', 'ham\n', 'eggs\n']


From pinkisntwell at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 18:24:26 2009
From: pinkisntwell at gmail.com (pinkisntwell)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:24:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Calling parent constructor with different argument list
Message-ID: <174a97e2-5ef4-47dc-9a60-ad7598f276cb@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

class Vertex(tuple):
    pass

class Positioned_Vertex(Vertex):

    def __init__(self, a, b):
        Vertex.__init__(a)

a=Positioned_Vertex((0,0,0), 1)

This gives:

TypeError: tuple() takes at most 1 argument (2 given)

It looks like the explicit call to Vertex.__init__ is never made and
Vertex.__init__ is implicitly called when a Positioned_Vertex is
created. Is there a way to work around this and call the constructor
with the intended argument list?


From lists at cheimes.de  Fri Aug 14 18:25:00 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 00:25:00 +0200
Subject: callable virtual method
In-Reply-To: <4A85D051.2080004@sequans.com>
References: <4A85798B.6020501@sequans.com>	<4A8587A0.6040008@mrabarnett.plus.com>		<7eljaoF2fnkqgU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>	<4A85A233.9030905@sequans.com>	<4A85A47E.308@wiggly.org>
	<4A85ACEF.4090901@sequans.com>	<4A85B9F7.4010201@ieee.org>
	<4A85D051.2080004@sequans.com>
Message-ID: 

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> talking about approaches:
> 
> 1/
> class Interface:
>     def foo(self):
>        if self.__class__.foo == Interface.foo:
>           raise NotImplementedError
> 
> 2/
> class Interface:
>     def foo(self):
>        self._foo()
> 
>     def _foo(sef):
>        raise NotImplementedError

Please don't call it an interface when it's really an abstract base 
class. And abstract base classes are probably the solution the OP is 
looking for, http://docs.python.org/library/abc.html

Christian



From davigier at googlemail.com  Fri Aug 14 18:27:40 2009
From: davigier at googlemail.com (David)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:27:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to launch a function at regular time intervals ?
References: 
	
	 
	
	<6ebb8c71-870c-4233-a256-a4061a1ab530@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
	<18ac9f9a-0cf2-409c-82b3-ea068f21dbf7@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

With your help, Franck, I think I finally got it to work. This is how
I did it:

# In the main program, launch the 2 threads CStoreData and
CTransferData, which will run indefinitely until they are stopped (if
the threads were launched inside the while loop, there would be an
infinitely growing number of threads CStoreData all doing the same
thing, same for CTransferData)

func_store_data = CStoreData()
func_store_data.start()

func_transfer_data = CTransferData()
func_transfer_data.start()

# While loop, just to keep the threads running until they are stopped
at the end of the program. If there wasn't a while loop, the threads
would be stopped right after they are launched. The while loop
separates the "start" of the threads from the "stop" of the threads

while 1
  if end_condition:  # terminate program
            break  # break out of while loop

# Stop all running threads at end

func_store_data.stop()
func_store_data.join()

func_transfer_data.stop()
func_transfer_data.join()


Again thanks a lot to all of you for your precious help.

David


From davigier at googlemail.com  Fri Aug 14 18:27:55 2009
From: davigier at googlemail.com (David)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:27:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to launch a function at regular time intervals ?
References: 
	
	 
	
	<6ebb8c71-870c-4233-a256-a4061a1ab530@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
	<18ac9f9a-0cf2-409c-82b3-ea068f21dbf7@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <7e7f762d-6727-4756-9e5e-72b894f9a9fb@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

With your help, Franck, I think I finally got it to work. This is how
I did it:

# In the main program, launch the 2 threads CStoreData and
CTransferData, which will run indefinitely until they are stopped (if
the threads were launched inside the while loop, there would be an
infinitely growing number of threads CStoreData all doing the same
thing, same for CTransferData)

func_store_data = CStoreData()
func_store_data.start()

func_transfer_data = CTransferData()
func_transfer_data.start()

# While loop, just to keep the threads running until they are stopped
at the end of the program. If there wasn't a while loop, the threads
would be stopped right after they are launched. The while loop
separates the "start" of the threads from the "stop" of the threads

while 1
  if end_condition:  # terminate program
            break  # break out of while loop

# Stop all running threads at end

func_store_data.stop()
func_store_data.join()

func_transfer_data.stop()
func_transfer_data.join()


Again thanks a lot to all of you for your precious help.

David


From davigier at googlemail.com  Fri Aug 14 18:28:06 2009
From: davigier at googlemail.com (David)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:28:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to launch a function at regular time intervals ?
References: 
	
	 
	
	<6ebb8c71-870c-4233-a256-a4061a1ab530@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
	<18ac9f9a-0cf2-409c-82b3-ea068f21dbf7@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <97ddbf4b-0a80-4ef3-88e6-73b02208ef13@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

With your help, Franck, I think I finally got it to work. This is how
I did it:

# In the main program, launch the 2 threads CStoreData and
CTransferData, which will run indefinitely until they are stopped (if
the threads were launched inside the while loop, there would be an
infinitely growing number of threads CStoreData all doing the same
thing, same for CTransferData)

func_store_data = CStoreData()
func_store_data.start()

func_transfer_data = CTransferData()
func_transfer_data.start()

# While loop, just to keep the threads running until they are stopped
at the end of the program. If there wasn't a while loop, the threads
would be stopped right after they are launched. The while loop
separates the "start" of the threads from the "stop" of the threads

while 1
  if end_condition:  # terminate program
            break  # break out of while loop

# Stop all running threads at end

func_store_data.stop()
func_store_data.join()

func_transfer_data.stop()
func_transfer_data.join()


Again thanks a lot to all of you for your precious help.

David


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Aug 14 18:30:52 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 23:30:52 +0100
Subject: Splitting on '^' ?
In-Reply-To: <4A85D506.7060104@stoneleaf.us>
References:  <4A85D506.7060104@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <4A85E59C.6020001@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Ethan Furman wrote:
> kj wrote:
>>
>> Sometimes I want to split a string into lines, preserving the
>> end-of-line markers.  In Perl this is really easy to do, by splitting
>> on the beginning-of-line anchor:
>>
>>   @lines = split /^/, $string;
>>
>> But I can't figure out how to do the same thing with Python.  E.g.:
>>
>>
>>>>> import re
>>>>> re.split('^', 'spam\nham\neggs\n')
>>
>> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']
>>
>>>>> re.split('(?m)^', 'spam\nham\neggs\n')
>>
>> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']
>>
>>>>> bol_re = re.compile('^', re.M)
>>>>> bol_re.split('spam\nham\neggs\n')
>>
>> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']
>>
>> Am I doing something wrong?
>>
>> kynn
> 
> As you probably noticed from the other responses:  No, you can't split 
> on _and_ keep the splitby text.
> 
You _can_ split and keep what you split on:

 >>> re.split("(x)", "abxcd")
['ab', 'x', 'cd']

You _can't_ split on a zero-width match:

 >>> re.split("(x*)", "abxcd")
['ab', 'x', 'cd']

but you can use re.sub to replace zero-width matches with something
that's not zero-width and then split on that (best with str.split):

 >>> re.sub("(x*)", "@", "abxcd")
'@a at b@c at d@'
 >>> re.sub("(x*)", "@", "abxcd").split("@")
['', 'a', 'b', 'c', 'd', '']


From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Aug 14 18:40:56 2009
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 00:40:56 +0200
Subject: coding for multiple versions of python
In-Reply-To: 
References:  <4A84F913.9090901@v.loewis.de>
	
Message-ID: <4a85e7f8$0$2427$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

>> Specifically, put the source code into /net/source/python/foo/*.py.
>> Then, on each system, put symlinks to all .py files into
>> lib/site-packages/foo. Then Python will place the .pyc files next
>> to the symlinks, not next to the actual .py files.
> 
> Why would he need two sets of .py files?

As Dave explains:
So that the Python 2.4 installation on HP can write its own .pyc
files on disk next to the source files, and Python 2.6 can write
its .pyc files next to the sources on Linux.

Regards,
Martin


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Aug 14 18:40:59 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 23:40:59 +0100
Subject: How to launch a function at regular time intervals ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 		
		<6ebb8c71-870c-4233-a256-a4061a1ab530@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>		<18ac9f9a-0cf2-409c-82b3-ea068f21dbf7@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>	
	
Message-ID: <4A85E7FB.4040507@mrabarnett.plus.com>

David wrote:
> With your help, Franck, I think I finally got it to work. This is how
> I did it:
> 
> # In the main program, launch the 2 threads CStoreData and
> CTransferData, which will run indefinitely until they are stopped (if
> the threads were launched inside the while loop, there would be an
> infinitely growing number of threads CStoreData all doing the same
> thing, same for CTransferData)
> 
> func_store_data = CStoreData()
> func_store_data.start()
> 
> func_transfer_data = CTransferData()
> func_transfer_data.start()
> 
> # While loop, just to keep the threads running until they are stopped
> at the end of the program. If there wasn't a while loop, the threads
> would be stopped right after they are launched. The while loop
> separates the "start" of the threads from the "stop" of the threads
> 
> while 1
>   if end_condition:  # terminate program
>             break  # break out of while loop
> 
You might want to insert a sleep or something in there, otherwise you'll
be it'll consume a lot of CPU time doing nothing (a 'busy wait').

> # Stop all running threads at end
> 
> func_store_data.stop()
> func_store_data.join()
> 
> func_transfer_data.stop()
> func_transfer_data.join()
> 
> 
> Again thanks a lot to all of you for your precious help.
> 



From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Aug 14 18:42:54 2009
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 00:42:54 +0200
Subject: coding for multiple versions of python
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<4A84F913.9090901@v.loewis.de>	
	
Message-ID: <4A85E86E.6070805@v.loewis.de>


> He's assuming:
>    1) an OS that supports symlinks
>    2) two versions of Python on same system
>    3) one set of pure-python sources that want to stay in synch for both
> versions.

Actually, the OP said he has HP(-UX, I assume), and Linux, so it would
be two versions of Python on different systems - I also assume that he
has an NFS server that both can mount (or that one machine can NFS mount
the other).

Regards,
Martin


From REMOVEmagicus23THIS at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 18:46:46 2009
From: REMOVEmagicus23THIS at gmail.com (magicus)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 22:46:46 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: A Exhibition Of Tech Geekers Incompetence: Emacs whitespace-mode
References: <61ef4451-d6b6-493b-b4a0-1822a901ca8d@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 19:57:17 +0200, Jean-Michel Pichavant
 wrote:

> vippstar wrote:
>> On Aug 14, 8:25 pm, fortunatus  wrote:
>>   
>>> On Aug 14, 1:01 pm, vippstar  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Why would you fill your website with junk?
>>>>       
>>> The OP made it clear:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Just wanted to express some frustration with whitespace-mode.
>>>>       
>>>>       
>> You took my question out of context and answered it. I read the
>> article, it's not like I missed any of it. Plus, it's not a real
>> answer. "Because I wanted to". Why did you? Why would you?
>>   
> FYI, Xah Lee is a well known BTFL (Benevolent Troller For Life), you
> shouldn't argue about one of his post.

Argue??? He is kill filed here wherever I find him.

Life is too short to deal w/ idiots.

ciao,
f

-- 
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever 
conceived."
-- Isaac Asimov



From Brian.Mingus at colorado.edu  Fri Aug 14 18:57:13 2009
From: Brian.Mingus at colorado.edu (Brian)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 16:57:13 -0600
Subject: A Exhibition Of Tech Geekers Incompetence: Emacs whitespace-mode
In-Reply-To: 
References: <61ef4451-d6b6-493b-b4a0-1822a901ca8d@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	 
	 
	 
	
	
Message-ID: <9839a05c0908141557s4008e896nc5ddece003469596@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 4:46 PM, magicus wrote:

> On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 19:57:17 +0200, Jean-Michel Pichavant
>  wrote:
>
> > vippstar wrote:
> >> On Aug 14, 8:25 pm, fortunatus  wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Aug 14, 1:01 pm, vippstar  wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Why would you fill your website with junk?
> >>>>
> >>> The OP made it clear:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Just wanted to express some frustration with whitespace-mode.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >> You took my question out of context and answered it. I read the
> >> article, it's not like I missed any of it. Plus, it's not a real
> >> answer. "Because I wanted to". Why did you? Why would you?
> >>
> > FYI, Xah Lee is a well known BTFL (Benevolent Troller For Life), you
> > shouldn't argue about one of his post.
>
> Argue??? He is kill filed here wherever I find him.
>
> Life is too short to deal w/ idiots.
>
> ciao,
> f
>

The funny thing about his rant (ie - that it is irrelevant) is that emacs
python mode has always notified me that my indentations were inconsistent by
highlighting the errant ones in blue.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Fri Aug 14 19:13:56 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 16:13:56 -0700
Subject: Splitting on '^' ?
In-Reply-To: <4A85E59C.6020001@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References:  <4A85D506.7060104@stoneleaf.us>
	<4A85E59C.6020001@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <4A85EFB4.3020008@stoneleaf.us>

MRAB wrote:
> Ethan Furman wrote:
> 
>> kj wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Sometimes I want to split a string into lines, preserving the
>>> end-of-line markers.  In Perl this is really easy to do, by splitting
>>> on the beginning-of-line anchor:
>>>
>>>   @lines = split /^/, $string;
>>>
>>> But I can't figure out how to do the same thing with Python.  E.g.:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> import re
>>>>>> re.split('^', 'spam\nham\neggs\n')
>>>
>>>
>>> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']
>>>
>>>>>> re.split('(?m)^', 'spam\nham\neggs\n')
>>>
>>>
>>> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']
>>>
>>>>>> bol_re = re.compile('^', re.M)
>>>>>> bol_re.split('spam\nham\neggs\n')
>>>
>>>
>>> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']
>>>
>>> Am I doing something wrong?
>>>
>>> kynn
>>
>>
>> As you probably noticed from the other responses:  No, you can't split 
>> on _and_ keep the splitby text.
>>
> You _can_ split and keep what you split on:
> 
>  >>> re.split("(x)", "abxcd")
> ['ab', 'x', 'cd']
> 
> You _can't_ split on a zero-width match:
> 
>  >>> re.split("(x*)", "abxcd")
> ['ab', 'x', 'cd']
> 
> but you can use re.sub to replace zero-width matches with something
> that's not zero-width and then split on that (best with str.split):
> 
>  >>> re.sub("(x*)", "@", "abxcd")
> '@a at b@c at d@'
>  >>> re.sub("(x*)", "@", "abxcd").split("@")
> ['', 'a', 'b', 'c', 'd', '']

Wow!  I stand corrected, although I'm in danger of falling over from the 
dizziness!  :)

As impressive as that is, I don't think it does what the OP is looking 
for.  rurpy reminded us (or at least me ;) of .splitlines(), which seems 
to do exactly what the OP is looking for.  I do take some comfort that 
my little snippet works for more than newlines alone, although I'm not 
aware of any other use-cases.  :(

~Ethan~

Oh, hey, how about this?

re.compile('(^[^\n]*\n?)', re.M).findall('text\ntext\ntext)

Although this does give me an extra blank segment at the end... oh well.


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Aug 14 19:19:40 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 00:19:40 +0100
Subject: Calling parent constructor with different argument list
In-Reply-To: <174a97e2-5ef4-47dc-9a60-ad7598f276cb@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: <174a97e2-5ef4-47dc-9a60-ad7598f276cb@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

pinkisntwell wrote:
> class Vertex(tuple):
>     pass
> 
> class Positioned_Vertex(Vertex):
> 
>     def __init__(self, a, b):
def __init__(self, a): # just take out b
>         Vertex.__init__(a)
> 
> a=Positioned_Vertex((0,0,0), 1)
a=Positioned_Vertex( ( (0,0,0), 1) ) # and add a pair of brackets
print a
> 
> This gives:
> 
> TypeError: tuple() takes at most 1 argument (2 given)
> 
> It looks like the explicit call to Vertex.__init__ is never made and
> Vertex.__init__ is implicitly called when a Positioned_Vertex is
> created. Is there a way to work around this and call the constructor
> with the intended argument list?
Simplest way to get it to work is above using Python 2.6.2 on Windows. 
I'm sure there are variations depending on your use case, but I'll leave 
that to the experts.

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From arphaksad at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 20:05:40 2009
From: arphaksad at gmail.com (naaman)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 17:05:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: fileinput
References: 
	
	<521d7322-b8ee-490e-8cde-7e854e8afb7a@r34g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <4a237015-1b6d-418c-9bce-2f8e144e50d1@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 13, 11:41?pm, naaman  wrote:
> On Aug 13, 7:50?am, Dave Angel  wrote:
>
>
>
> > naaman wrote:
> > > On Aug 12, 1:35 pm, Dave Angel  wrote:
>
> > >> naaman wrote:
>
> > >>> I'm writing my first Python script and
> > >>> I want to use fileinput to open a file in r+ mode.
> > >>> Tried fileinput.input(sys.argv[1:],"r+") but that didn't work.
> > >>> ANy ideas?
>
> > >>> Need to find and overwrite a line in a file several times.
> > >>> I can do it using open and seek() etc. but was wondering if I can use
> > >>> fileinput.
>
> > >>> thanks;
>
> > >> I haven't used it, but check out the 'inplace' keyword parameter.
>
> > >> DaveA
>
> > > I've only Python for a week so I'm not sure what inplace does
>
> > You should read the docs for it
> > ? ? (http://www.python.org/doc/2.6.2/library/fileinput.html?),
> > but it's not very clear to me either ?So I dug up an example on the web:
> > ? ? ?(ref: ?http://effbot.org/librarybook/fileinput.htm)
>
> > import fileinput, sys
>
> > for line in fileinput.input(inplace=1):
> > ? ? # /convert Windows/DOS text files to Unix files/
> > ? ? if line[-2:] == "\r\n":
> > ? ? ? ? line = line[:-2] + "\n"
> > ? ? sys.stdout.write(line)
>
> > The inplace argument tells it to create a new file with the same name as
> > the original (doing all the necessary nonsense with using a scratch
> > file, and renaming/deleting) for each file processed. ?Stdout is pointed
> > to that new version of the file. ?Notice that you have to explicitly
> > write everything you want to wind up in the file -- if a given line is
> > to remain unchanged, you just write "line" directly.
>
> > If you're new to Python, I do not recommend trying to do open/seek to
> > update a text file in place, especially if you're in DOS. ?There are
> > lots of traps. ?the inplace method of fileinput avoids these by
> > implicitly creating temp files and handling the details for you, which
> > probably works great if you're dealing with text, in order.
>
> > DaveA
>
> here's the solution
>
> import fileinput, sys
>
> for line in fileinput.input(sys.argv[1],inplace=1):
> ? ? if (line[:-1]==r'drew'):
> ? ? ? ? line=line.replace(line,"fancy dog")
> ? ? sys.stdout.write(line)
>
> I want to replace drew in my input file with fancy dog.
> Tested with this input file
> angel
> heaven
> flying monkees
> lazy dogs
> drew
> blue sky
> veritas
>
> and got this
> angel
> heaven
> flying monkees
> lazy dogs
> fancy dog
> blue sky
> veritas
>
> So drew was replaced with fancy dog.
> Thanks to your inputs I got this solved. :-))

oops there should be a +"\n" after "fancy dog"
 line=line.replace(line,"fancy dog"+"\n")


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Fri Aug 14 20:15:52 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 21:15:52 -0300
Subject: Calling parent constructor with different argument list
References: <174a97e2-5ef4-47dc-9a60-ad7598f276cb@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

En Fri, 14 Aug 2009 19:24:26 -0300, pinkisntwell   
escribi?:

> class Vertex(tuple):
>     pass
>
> class Positioned_Vertex(Vertex):
>
>     def __init__(self, a, b):
>         Vertex.__init__(a)
>
> a=Positioned_Vertex((0,0,0), 1)
>
> This gives:
>
> TypeError: tuple() takes at most 1 argument (2 given)
>
> It looks like the explicit call to Vertex.__init__ is never made and
> Vertex.__init__ is implicitly called when a Positioned_Vertex is
> created. Is there a way to work around this and call the constructor
> with the intended argument list?

The tuple constructor (like numbers, strings, and other immutable objects)  
never calls __init__. You have to override __new__ instead:

py> class Point3D(tuple):
...   def __new__(cls, x, y, z):
...     obj = super(Point3D, cls).__new__(cls, (x,y,z))
...     return obj
...
py> a = Point3D(10, 20, 30)
py> a
(10, 20, 30)
py> type(a)


See http://docs.python.org/reference/datamodel.html#basic-customization

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From candide at free.invalid  Fri Aug 14 20:22:57 2009
From: candide at free.invalid (candide)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 02:22:57 +0200
Subject: Splitting a string into substrings of equal size
Message-ID: <4a85ffe2$0$24643$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

Suppose you need to split a string into substrings of a given size (except
possibly the last substring). I make the hypothesis the first slice is at the
end of the string.
A typical example is provided by formatting a decimal string with thousands
separator.


What is the pythonic way to do this ?


For my part, i reach to this rather complicated code:


# ----------------------

def comaSep(z,k=3, sep=','):
    z=z[::-1]
    x=[z[k*i:k*(i+1)][::-1] for i in range(1+(len(z)-1)/k)][::-1]
    return sep.join(x)

# Test
for z in ["75096042068045", "509", "12024", "7", "2009"]:
    print z+" --> ", comaSep(z)

# ----------------------

outputting :

75096042068045 -->  75,096,042,068,045
509 -->  509
12024 -->  12,024
7 -->  7
2009 -->  2,009


Thanks


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Fri Aug 14 21:00:52 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 22:00:52 -0300
Subject: Splitting a string into substrings of equal size
References: <4a85ffe2$0$24643$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: 

En Fri, 14 Aug 2009 21:22:57 -0300, candide   
escribi?:

> Suppose you need to split a string into substrings of a given size  
> (except
> possibly the last substring). I make the hypothesis the first slice is  
> at the
> end of the string.
> A typical example is provided by formatting a decimal string with  
> thousands
> separator.
>
>
> What is the pythonic way to do this ?

py> import locale
py> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, '')
'Spanish_Argentina.1252'
py> locale.format("%d", 75096042068045, True)
'75.096.042.068.045'

:)

> For my part, i reach to this rather complicated code:

Mine isn't very simple either:

py> def genparts(z):
...   n = len(z)
...   i = n%3
...   if i: yield z[:i]
...   for i in xrange(i, n, 3):
...     yield z[i:i+3]
...
py> ','.join(genparts("75096042068045"))
'75,096,042,068,045'

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From pfeldman at verizon.net  Fri Aug 14 21:25:45 2009
From: pfeldman at verizon.net (Dr. Phillip M. Feldman)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:25:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
Message-ID: <24980842.post@talk.nabble.com>


I wrote the following correct but inefficient test of primality for purposes
of demonstrating that the simplest algorithm is often not the most
efficient.  But, when I try to run the following code with a value of n that
is large enough to produce a significant amount of running time, I get an
out-of-memory error!

def is_prime(n):
   for j in range(2,n):
      if (n % j) == 0: return False
   return True

It seems as though Python is actually expanding range(2,n) into a list of
numbers, even though this is incredibly wasteful of memory. There should be
a looping mechanism that generates the index variable values incrementally
as they are needed.
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Python-%27for%27-loop-is-memory-inefficient-tp24980842p24980842.html
Sent from the Python - python-list mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Fri Aug 14 21:30:39 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:30:39 -0700
Subject: implementing descriptors
In-Reply-To: <85502415-f861-43ab-8827-4184952d8bea@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
References: <39aff5a5-97ec-41f7-ab26-6e4d842b9c5c@r33g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>	
	
	
	<85502415-f861-43ab-8827-4184952d8bea@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A860FBF.6070709@stoneleaf.us>

dippim wrote:
> On Aug 14, 10:48 am, Dave Angel  wrote:
> 
>>dippim wrote:
>>
>>>On Aug 14, 2:34 am, Raymond Hettinger  wrote:
>>
>>>>[David]
>>
>>>>>I am new to Python and I have a question about descriptors.  If I have
>>>>>a class as written below, is there a way to use descriptors to be
>>>>>certain that the datetime in start is always before the one in end?
>>
>>>>>class foo(object):
>>>>>   def __init__(self,a =one,b = None)
>>>>>      self.start =
>>>>>      self.end =
>>
>>>>>from datetime import datetime
>>>>>c =atetime(2009,8,13,6,15,0)
>>>>>d =atetime(2009,8,14,12,0,0)
>>>>>afoo =oo(c,d)
>>
>>>>>For instance, if the following code were run, I would like to instance
>>>>>of foo to switch the start and end times.
>>
>>>>>afoo.start =atetime(2010,8,13,6,15,0)
>>
>>>>>I was thinking of using the __set__ descriptor to catch the assignment
>>>>>and reverse the values if necessary, but I can't figure out how to
>>>>>determine which values is being set.
>>
>>>>You're on the right track, but it is easier to use property() than to
>>>>write your own custom descriptor with __get__ and __set__.
>>
>>>>class foo(object):
>>>>    def __init__(self,a =one,b = None):
>>>>        self._start =
>>>>        self._end =
>>>>    def get_start(self):
>>>>        return self._start
>>>>    def set_start(self, value):
>>>>        if self._end is None or value < self._end:
>>>>            self._start =alue
>>>>        else:
>>>>            self._end =alue
>>>>    start =roperty(get_start, set_start)
>>>>    def get_end(self):
>>>>        return self._end
>>>>    def set_end(self, value):
>>>>        if self._start is None or value > self._start:
>>>>            self._end =alue
>>>>        else:
>>>>            self._start =alue
>>>>    end =roperty(get_end, set_end)
>>
>>>>Raymond
>>
>>>Raymond,
>>>   This functionality is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!  I'll
>>>be using this to solve my problem.
>>
>>>   Now that I'm on the right track, I'm still a bit confused about how
>>>__get__ and __set__ are useful.  Admittedly, I don't need to
>>>understand them to solve this problem, but perhaps they may be useful
>>>in the future.  If I wanted to solve this problem using __get__ and
>>>__set__ could it be done?
>>
>>>Thanks Again!
>>
>>DANGER- WILL ROBINSON!
>>
>>Don't use this code as-is.  There is a nasty surprise waiting for the
>>caller when he sets start and end, and discovers that one of them gets
>>thrown out, and an old value still remains.
>>
>>obj= foo(3, 5)
>>obj.start = 8
>>obj.end = 12
>>print obj.start, obj.end
>>
>>will print out  3, 12.    Not what the caller expected.
> 
> 
> You're right about this and I appreciate the warning, but I think what
> Raymond was going for was directional accuracy without a great deal of
> his time wasted on details.  The explanation served the purpose of
> moving me forward using property() and I'm thankful for it.
> 
> 
>>Four fixes, in order of preference:
>>0) Trust your user to read and obey your docstrings.  This was what JM
>>was implying, by changing the names of the formal parameters.
> 
> 
> Considering I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer, I don't wish to
> start a philosophical discussion about the relative aptitude and
> capabilities of the people who might use a class I build.  However, I
> will say that as this particular requirement is imposed on this class
> by the writer, shouldn't it be the writer's responsibility to enforce
> it, especially, when the cost of enforcement is so low?
> 
> 
>>1)  make a new method that sets both values, making these two properties
>>readonly.  That new method would make sure the two parameters are
>>self-consistent.  Making the actual values readonly can be done with a
>>descriptor as well, or even a decorator.
> 
> 
>>2) Raise an exception in the getter methods if they're out of order
>>3) do the min/max logic on the getter methods, but I don't like that one
>>at all.
>>
>>DaveA
> 

I am in complete agreement with DaveA on this issue -- if you want the 
invariant, then have a routine that set's both at once.

The head-aches it would cause me, at least, to have to gyrate around 
whether I was making the object later or earlier in time (having to swap 
the order I assign stand and end, assuming I even know whether I'm going 
forward or backward without further checking... argh!) would quite 
possibly cause me to choose some other routine instead.

How about something like (untested):
     def set(self, start=None, end=None):
         if start is None:
             start = self.start
         if end is None:
             end = self.end
         if start > end:
             raise ValueError('blah blah')
         self.start = start
         self.end = end

This way you could still set only one, but have bounds checking in place.

~Ethan~


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 21:30:43 2009
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:30:43 -0700
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
In-Reply-To: <24980842.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <24980842.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c20908141830i5c72e0c1i66343c0e9017f0ca@mail.gmail.com>

>
> It seems as though Python is actually expanding range(2,n) into a list of
> numbers, even though this is incredibly wasteful of memory. There should be
> a looping mechanism that generates the index variable values incrementally
> as they are needed.


This has nothing to do with Python's for loop (and saying the loop construct
itself is memory inefficient makes me blink in confusion): but you've
isolated the problem precisely all on your own. range() is defined as
returning a list. Thus, it constructs the list all at once.

xrange() returns an iterator, and generates the values on the fly.

In Python 3, this was changed so range returns an iterator, and to get a
list you do list(range(2,n)).

--S
-------------- next part --------------
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From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Fri Aug 14 21:36:14 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:36:14 -0700
Subject: Programming by Contract
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4A7A15CD.9090306@stoneleaf.us>
	<4A81C6B8.7010605@stoneleaf.us>		
	
Message-ID: <4A86110E.5050201@stoneleaf.us>

Charles Yeomans wrote:
> 
> On Aug 14, 2009, at 12:09 AM, Scott David Daniels wrote:
> 
>> Charles Yeomans wrote:
>>
>>> On Aug 11, 2009, at 3:30 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
>>
>>>> Ethan Furman wrote:
>>
>>>>> Greetings!
>>
>>>>> I have seen posts about the assert statement and PbC (or maybe it 
>>>>> was DbC), and I just took a very brief look at pycontract 
>>>>> (http://www.wayforward.net/pycontract/) and now I have at least one 
>>>>> question:  Is this basically another way of thinking about unit 
>>>>> testing, or is the idea of PbC more along the lines of *always* 
>>>>> checking the input/output of functions to ensure they are correct? 
>>>>>  (*Contstant vigilance!* as Prof Moody would say ;)
>>
>>>>> I know asserts can be turned off, so they obviously won't work for 
>>>>> the latter case, and having seen the sample of pycontract it seems 
>>>>> it only does its thing during debugging.
>>
>>>>> So is Design (Programming) by Contract a fancy way of saying 
>>>>> "Document your inputs/outputs!" or is there more to it?
>>
>>>>> ~Ethan~
>>
>>>>
>>>> Hmmm...
>>
>>>>
>>>> Well, from the (apparently) complete lack of interest, I shall take 
>>>> away the (better?) documentation ideas and unit testing ideas, and 
>>>> not worry about the rest.  :)
>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Design by contract is complementary to unit testing (I notice that 
>>> the author of PEP 316 appears confused about this).  DbC is, roughly 
>>> speaking, about explicit allocation of responsibility.  Consider this 
>>> contrived example.
>>
>>> def foo(s):
>>
>>>    require(s is not None)
>>
>>>    //code
>>
>>>    ensure(hasattr(returnValue, '__iter__'))
>>
>>
>> yo might want two flags, REQUIRE_OFF, and ENSURE_ON that control
>> testing, and change the code above to:
>>      require(REQUIRE_OFF or s is not None)
>>      //code
>>      ensure(ENSURE_OFF or hasattr(returnValue, '__iter__'))
>>
>> Python has no good way to turn off argument calculation by
>> manipulating function definition (at least that I know of).
>>
> 
> For this purpose, it had occurred to me to do something like the following.
> 
> def require(condition):
>     if condition:
>         return True
>     else:
> raise PreconditionFailure
> 
> 
> def foo(s):
>    assert require(s is not None)
> 
> 
> Then it occurred to me to actually read the assert documentation, where 
> I learned that one can pass a second expression to assert. So instead 
> one might write
> 
> assert precondition, "PreconditionFailure"
> 
> though I think I prefer the former.
> 
> 
> Charles Yeomans 
> 

And in either case, since such checks can have a *huge* impact on 
performance, it is good that asserts can be disabled with the -O 
optimize switch.  So it's also good that the original design for DbC was 
an _understanding_ of who is responsible for what, as opposed to _code_ 
to actually enforce it.

~Ethan~


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Aug 14 21:38:18 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 02:38:18 +0100
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
In-Reply-To: <24980842.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <24980842.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: 

Dr. Phillip M. Feldman wrote:
> I wrote the following correct but inefficient test of primality for purposes
> of demonstrating that the simplest algorithm is often not the most
> efficient.  But, when I try to run the following code with a value of n that
> is large enough to produce a significant amount of running time, I get an
> out-of-memory error!
> 
> def is_prime(n):
>    for j in range(2,n):
>       if (n % j) == 0: return False
>    return True
> 
> It seems as though Python is actually expanding range(2,n) into a list of
> numbers, even though this is incredibly wasteful of memory. There should be
> a looping mechanism that generates the index variable values incrementally
> as they are needed.
I have a strong suspicion that you will find hints in the Python 
documentation that this has already been addressed.  Perhaps you could 
try reading before posting?

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Fri Aug 14 21:43:42 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:43:42 -0700
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
In-Reply-To: <24980842.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <24980842.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <4A8612CE.7080700@stoneleaf.us>

Dr. Phillip M. Feldman wrote:
> I wrote the following correct but inefficient test of primality for purposes
> of demonstrating that the simplest algorithm is often not the most
> efficient.  But, when I try to run the following code with a value of n that
> is large enough to produce a significant amount of running time, I get an
> out-of-memory error!
> 
> def is_prime(n):
>    for j in range(2,n):
>       if (n % j) == 0: return False
>    return True
> 
> It seems as though Python is actually expanding range(2,n) into a list of
> numbers, even though this is incredibly wasteful of memory. There should be
> a looping mechanism that generates the index variable values incrementally
> as they are needed.

You already have an answer to the range issue, so I will only add that 
putting a loop inside another loop is a decent way to expand the time taken.

I will also observe that if you were to stop programming whatever 
language you are more familiar with in Python, and start programming 
Python in Python, you'll have an easier time of it.

The Dive Into Python is an excellent start for that.

~Ethan~


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Aug 14 21:53:13 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 10:53:13 +0900
Subject: implementing descriptors
In-Reply-To: <85502415-f861-43ab-8827-4184952d8bea@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
References: <39aff5a5-97ec-41f7-ab26-6e4d842b9c5c@r33g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>	
	
	
	<85502415-f861-43ab-8827-4184952d8bea@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

dippim wrote:

> will say that as this particular requirement is imposed on this class
> by the writer, shouldn't it be the writer's responsibility to enforce
> it, especially, when the cost of enforcement is so low?

I would say that it is the writer's responsibility to set the 
requirement and be clear as to what it is and define the contract with 
respect to the requirement. The latter could either be user 
responsibility -- behavior explicitly undefined if violated -- or writer 
responsibility -- with either fix or raise exception upon violation 
detection.

Python's duck-typing style tends to put responsibility on callers. Consider

def minmidmax(seq):
   seq.sort()
   n = len(seq)
   return seq[0], seq[n//2], seq[n-1]

This requires that seq have sane .sort, .__len__, and .__getitem__ 
methods.  Checks could be added, but most Python programs would simply 
say the the input must be an in-place sortable sequence.

Terry Jan Reedy



From rt8396 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 22:01:26 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 19:01:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 14, 8:25?pm, "Dr. Phillip M. Feldman" 
wrote:
> I wrote the following correct but inefficient test of primality for purposes
> of demonstrating that the simplest algorithm is often not the most
> efficient. ?But, when I try to run the following code with a value of n that
> is large enough to produce a significant amount of running time, I get an
> out-of-memory error!

I don't think Python was created to keep mathematician's happy.
Although strangely enough, the creator holds a masters degree in
mathematics *and* computer science. Just another one of life's little
ironies ;)


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Aug 14 22:03:42 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 11:03:42 +0900
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a Serial
	port?
In-Reply-To: <7el2mqF2gi53eU1@mid.individual.net>
References: 
	<7el2mqF2gi53eU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: 

greg wrote:

> You can't read and write with the same stdio file object
> at the same time. Odd things tend to happen if you try.

I believe the C standard specifies that the behavior of mixed reads and 
writes is undefined without intervening seek and/or flush, even if the 
seek is ignored (as it is on some Unix systems). With two threads, the 
timing is undetermined.



From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Fri Aug 14 22:17:35 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 04:17:35 +0200
Subject: Splitting a string into substrings of equal size
In-Reply-To: <4a85ffe2$0$24643$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4a85ffe2$0$24643$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: 

15-08-2009 candide  wrote:

> Suppose you need to split a string into substrings of a given size  
> (except
> possibly the last substring). I make the hypothesis the first slice is  
> at the end of the string.
> A typical example is provided by formatting a decimal string with  
> thousands separator.

I'd use iterators, especially for longer strings...


import itertools

def separate(text, grouplen=3, sep=','):
     "separate('12345678') -> '123,456,78'"
     repeated_iterator = [iter(text)] * grouplen
     groups = itertools.izip_longest(fillvalue='', *repeated_iterator)
     strings = (''.join(group) for group in groups)  # gen. expr.
     return sep.join(strings)

def back_separate(text, grouplen=3, sep=','):
     "back_separate('12345678') -> '12,345,678'"
     repeated_iterator = [reversed(text)] * grouplen
     groups = itertools.izip_longest(fillvalue='', *repeated_iterator)
     strings = [''.join(reversed(group)) for group in groups]  # list compr.
     return sep.join(reversed(strings))

print separate('12345678')
print back_separate('12345678')

# alternate implementation
# (without "materializing" 'strings' as a list in back_separate):
def separate(text, grouplen=3, sep=','):
     "separate('12345678') -> '12,345,678'"
     textlen = len(text)
     end = textlen - (textlen % grouplen)
     repeated_iterator = [iter(itertools.islice(text, 0, end))] * grouplen
     strings = itertools.imap(lambda *chars: ''.join(chars),  
*repeated_iterator)
     return sep.join(itertools.chain(strings, (text[end:],)))

def back_separate(text, grouplen=3, sep=','):
     "back_separate('12345678') -> '12,345,678'"
     beg = len(text) % grouplen
     repeated_iterator = [iter(itertools.islice(text, beg, None))] *  
grouplen
     strings = itertools.imap(lambda *chars: ''.join(chars),  
*repeated_iterator)
     return sep.join(itertools.chain((text[:beg],), strings))

print separate('12345678')
print back_separate('12345678')


http://docs.python.org/library/itertools.html#recipes
was the inspiration for me (especially grouper).

Cheers,
*j
-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From davea at ieee.org  Fri Aug 14 22:25:18 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 22:25:18 -0400
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences
	in 	string literals]
In-Reply-To: 
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>		<02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>		
	
Message-ID: <4A861C8E.4030602@ieee.org>

Benjamin Kaplan wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Douglas Alan wrote:
>
>   
>> P.S. Overloading "left shift" to mean "output" does indeed seem a bit
>> sketchy, but in 15 years of C++ programming, I've never seen it cause
>> any confusion or bugs.
>>     
>
>
>
> The only reason it hasn't is because people use it in "Hello World". I bet
> some newbie C++ programmers get confused the first time they see << used to
> shift.
>
>   
Actually, I've seen it cause confusion, because of operator precedence.  
The logical shift operators have a fairly high level priority, so 
sometimes you need parentheses that aren't obvious.  Fortunately, most 
of those cases make compile errors.


C++ has about 17 levels of precedence, plus some confusing associative 
rules.  And operator overloading does *NOT* change precedence.

DaveA



From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Fri Aug 14 22:40:05 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 04:40:05 +0200
Subject: Splitting a string into substrings of equal size
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4a85ffe2$0$24643$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	
Message-ID: 

15-08-2009 Jan Kaliszewski  wrote:

> 15-08-2009 candide  wrote:
>
>> Suppose you need to split a string into substrings of a given size  
>> (except
>> possibly the last substring). I make the hypothesis the first slice is  
>> at the end of the string.
>> A typical example is provided by formatting a decimal string with  
>> thousands separator.
>
> I'd use iterators, especially for longer strings...
>
>
> import itertools
[snip]

Err... It's too late for coding... Now I see obvious and simpler variant:

def separate(text, grouplen=3, sep=','):
     "separate('12345678') -> '123,456,78'"
     textlen = len(text)
     end = textlen - (textlen % grouplen)
     strings = (text[i:i+grouplen] for i in xrange(0, end, grouplen))
     return sep.join(itertools.chain(strings, (text[end:],)))

def back_separate(text, grouplen=3, sep=','):
     "back_separate('12345678') -> '12,345,678'"
     textlen = len(text)
     beg = textlen % grouplen
     strings = (text[i:i+grouplen] for i in xrange(beg, textlen, grouplen))
     return sep.join(itertools.chain((text[:beg],), strings))

print separate('12345678')
print back_separate('12345678')

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From guthrie at mum.edu  Fri Aug 14 23:20:34 2009
From: guthrie at mum.edu (guthrie)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 20:20:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: py-rrdTool - install fails
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 14, 3:39?pm, Christian Heimes  wrote:
> guthrie schrieb:
>
>
>
> > I want to do some rrd in a python cgi script, but am having trouble
> > getting an easy install module.
>
> > py-rrdTool looks good, but is distributed in c source, and is missing
> > a header file in the distribution. Thus the install fails when it
> > tries to reference rrd.h which is not there.
>
> > Are there better rrd modules to use, or a compiled version of this, or
> > other suggestions?
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > building 'rrdtool._rrdtool' extension
> > C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio 9.0\VC\BIN\cl.exe /c /nologo /
> > Ox /MD /W3 /GS- /DNDEBUG -I/usr/local\include "-IE:\PLang\Active Python
> > \include" "-IE:\PLang\Active Python\PC" /Tcsrc/_rrdtoolmodule.c /
> > Fobuild\temp.win32-2.6\Release\src/_rrdtoolmodule.obj
> > _rrdtoolmodule.c
> > src/_rrdtoolmodule.c(34) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include
> > file: 'rrd.h': No such file or directory
> > error: command '"C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio 9.0\VC\BIN
> > \cl.exe"' failed with exit status 2
>
> > C:\Documents and Settings\guthrie\Desktop\py-rrdtool-0.2.1>
>
> rrd.h is part of the rrdtools. You need to install rrdtools plus all its
> dependencies. Have a lot of fun ;)
>
> Christian

Thanks;
I got py-rrttool-0.2.1 from sourceforge, but in its src directory it
has only 3 files,
  _rrdtoolmodule.c, rrd_extra.h, and rrd_format.h

   http://sourceforge.net/projects/py-rrdtool/files/py-rrdtool/0.2.1/

(same for site: http://www.nongnu.org/py-rrdtool/ )

Where should I be looking for other dependencies?

I installed rrdtools.exe, and don't see any rrd.h file in that
hierarchy.


From magawake at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 23:28:32 2009
From: magawake at gmail.com (Mag Gam)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 23:28:32 -0400
Subject: unittest
Message-ID: <1cbd6f830908142028v638a4c06jf0f859be712e724c@mail.gmail.com>

I am writing an application which has many command line arguments.
For example: foo.py -args "bar bee"

I would like to create a test suit using unittest so when I add
features to "foo.py" I don't want to break other things. I just heard
about unittest and would love to use it for this type of thing.

so my question is, when I do these tests do I have to code them into
foo.py? I prefer having a footest.py which will run the regression
tests. Any thoughts about this?

TIA


From dieter at handshake.de  Sat Aug 15 00:41:20 2009
From: dieter at handshake.de (Dieter Maurer)
Date: 15 Aug 2009 06:41:20 +0200
Subject: httplib incredibly slow :-(
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4A81D3CB.7080209@simplistix.co.uk>
	
	<4A82EFDC.70502@simplistix.co.uk>
	<4eb0089f0908121753o5ecf141dj304b21c3df0d3d6b@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Chris Withers  writes on Thu, 13 Aug 2009 08:20:37 +0100:
> ...
> I've already established that the file downloads in seconds with
> [something else], so I'd like to understand why python isn't doing the
> same and fix the problem...

A profile might help to understand what the time is used for.

As almost all operations are not done in Python itself ("httplib" is really
a very tiny wrapper above a socket), a C level profile may be necessary
to understand the behaviour.

Dieter


From bouncyinc at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 00:46:19 2009
From: bouncyinc at gmail.com (John Haggerty)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 22:46:19 -0600
Subject: getting a "simple" program to work
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<50697b2c0908112146q6e12650dt914518166b4fae72@mail.gmail.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

I'm checking back with some new info.

Apparently the maintainer of the ogss package indicated that this is
definately an issue with the libgmail package.

Now I have already submtted help to the maintainer of libgmail to get some
help it making his project work again.

I am also interesetd in how roundabout smtp support could be added to that
program specifically

    print "Seding back results"
                    account.sendMessage(tosend)
                    print "Logging..."
                    execd.append(int(maxmessage.id,16))
                    towrite = str(int(maxmessage.id,16))+"~ "
                    for arg in command:
                        towrite += arg+" "
                    w.write(towrite+"\n")
                    print "Listening for commands"

in the code sample from ogss.py to take that subroutine and turn it around
to allow the same arguments

basically take the above

and add

-----------------------------------------

gmail_user = ""    #Username
gmail_pwd  = ""        #Password
gmail_alt  = " "        #Alias ID
gmail_alias = ""+gmail_alt        #nickname
mailing_list = ""
class mailz:
  def __init__(self):
    self.files=[""]
    self.mail = MIMEMultipart()

  def attach(self,fil):
    self.files.append(fil)

  def mailprep(self,to, subject, text):
    self.to = to
    self.mail['From'] = gmail_alias
    self.mail['To'] = to
    self.mail['Subject'] = subject
    if (mailtoBcc !="") :
      self.mail['BCC'] = mailtoBcc

    text+="\n\n\n_________________________\nMail generated By  PyGmS
"+ver+"\n - Made By Djays\n        http://djsh.net"

    self.mail.attach(MIMEText(text))
    print self.files

    for attach in self.files:
      if (attach != "") :
          part = MIMEBase('application', 'octet-stream')
          part.set_payload(open(attach, 'rb').read())
          Encoders.encode_base64(part)
          part.add_header('Content-Disposition','attachment; filename="%s"'
%
os.path.basename(attach))
          self.mail.attach(part)

  def sendmail(self):
    self.mailServer = smtplib.SMTP("smtp.gmail.com", 587)
    self.mailServer.ehlo()
    self.mailServer.starttls()
    self.mailServer.ehlo()
    self.mailServer.login(gmail_user, gmail_pwd)
    self.mailServer.sendmail(gmail_user, self.to, self.mail.as_string())
    self.mailServer.close()
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I hate to sound like a newb but the problem is that I'm running into
apathetic maintainers of the software in question which has yet to be
redacted as "working" and at the present time I have to deal with
multi-server conglomerates like "Request Tracker" or "Roundup" both of which
are simply not authenticating into gmail at all.

At first I thought this was an issue of the ssl certificates not working but
hen how come it's possible to have any of the code working when it's just
the sending?

And how is it possible that generic but different code can be working when
it's all broken?

Not to sound in any way belligerent but when this would be my 5th program
language to solve a simple problem I think this is solveable w/o having to
resort to the equivalent to a half semester of CS I in python imho.

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 10:41 PM, John Haggerty  wrote:

> Just checking to see if this is more adequate to what you would have wanted
> to see I didn't get any feedback so I wasn't quite sure of this at the
> present time.
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 11:02 PM, John Haggerty wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 10:46 PM, Chris Rebert  wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 8:42 PM, John Haggerty
>>> wrote:
>>> > ok so I know this is one of those "weird" requests but here me out.
>>> > So far I have an issue with a package for python called "libgmail"
>>> which is
>>> > basically a gmail interface for python to send messages remoetly.
>>> > Works ok except that the 'sendMessage' routine is bad.
>>>
>>> How is it "bad" precisely? Be specific (e.g. error message(s),
>>> description of observed incorrect behavior).
>>>
>>
>> In regards to bad would be failing to transmit claiming that the submittal
>> is wrong for the transmit string.
>>
>> (where username is my gmail username and "password" is my gmail password
>> to the test account, 6666666969 is the mobile number in question '00' is my
>> "carrier id" from the ogss code example which is just an array location from
>> a preformatted part of the string [probably from wikipedia on mobile carrier
>> email addresses to cell phones], I actually got desperate and commented out
>> the first attempt to transmit which I located in the code as just the
>> "instructions" the code fails on re-transmission, I later on looked at the
>> file and located that it was a zero byte file of no content. The program
>> itself looks for a command from the user's cell phone directly from mms sent
>> to the target gmail account prefaced by "Ogss" and anything else is treated
>> as a command but since the command failed on the first transmit I don't
>> think it's the command per se).
>>
>> owner at bouncyinc:~/Desktop/OGSS$ python ogss.py username password
>> 6666666969 00
>> Starting ogss
>> Logfile at:/home/owner/ogss.log
>> Opening log file for reading
>> Parsing user input
>> Connecting to Gmail
>> Logging into Gmail
>> Opening log file for writing
>> Listening for commands
>> Processing Command
>> ls: unrecognized option `---------------------------------------------'
>> Try `ls --help' for more information.
>> Seding back results
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "ogss.py", line 127, in 
>>     main(sys.argv)
>>   File "ogss.py", line 110, in main
>>     account.sendMessage(tosend)
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/libgmail.py", line 615, in
>> sendMessage
>>     raise GmailSendError, resultInfo[SM_MSG]
>> libgmail.GmailSendError: Please try again.
>>
>> I traced the result to the sendMessage routine and noted that anytime it
>> tries to send anything it fails this also fails with the standard "docs"
>> package for libgmail 0.30 docs from the maintainer's site.
>>
>> Now the part where it *does* fail is where it has an issue with looking at
>> the trailing info but then it would have logged the info to the file and
>> emailed me back junk (which it didn't)
>>
>> I assume this could be done on any system just replace 'ls' with 'dir' or
>> the equivalent.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> > This is included in the above attachment
>>> > it's used in a program called "ogss" which is an sms interface to gmail
>>> to
>>> > basically read gmail and then have a command done on a remote machine
>>> and
>>> > then spat out on the local machine to a log file that's opened and then
>>> > emailed back
>>> > problem is that the sending back routine fails.
>>>
>>> Which routine is that exactly? Please also specify exactly how it is
>>> failing (e.g. error message(s), description of observed incorrect
>>> behavior).
>>>
>>> I apologize if these questions are answered in comments in the
>>> attachments, but to be honest, the fact that you didn't (or couldn't)
>>> put the specific problematic sections of code (and/or error messages)
>>> inline in your message makes it less likely that people (such as
>>> myself) will try to help you due to the volume of code you're making
>>> people wade through (i.e. people tend not to read large code dumps,
>>> /especially/ in attachments).
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Chris
>>> --
>>> http://blog.rebertia.com
>>>
>> That's ok I understand I hope that helps at least in part.
>
>
>
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From oraclebill at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 01:15:36 2009
From: oraclebill at gmail.com (Bill Jones)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 22:15:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	
	
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	 
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro ups.com> 
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	 
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 8, 3:27?pm, Mark Lawrence  wrote:
> Kee Nethery wrote:
> > As someone trying to learn the language I want to say that the tone on
> > this list towards people who are trying to learn Python ?feels like it
> > has become anti-newbies.
>
> [snip]
>
> > Kee Nethery
>
> My gut feeling (which could of course be wrong) is that many hard core
> Pythonistas are cheesed off with newbies who refuse to help themselves.

The funny thing is that their response is to shutdown changes that are
intended
to *help* newbies help themselves. It seems self-defeating to me.



From jonrascal at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 01:39:08 2009
From: jonrascal at gmail.com (Rascal)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 22:39:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
References: 
Message-ID: <04359a4b-9336-4936-8a15-a845ecebe4ba@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

look at xrange -- http://docs.python.org/library/functions.html#xrange


From jonrascal at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 02:08:14 2009
From: jonrascal at gmail.com (Rascal)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 23:08:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Splitting a string into substrings of equal size
References: <4a85ffe2$0$24643$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	 
	
Message-ID: <3842c750-9633-4e8e-84da-4853784bce64@v37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

I'm bored for posting this, but here it is:

def add_commas(str):
    str_list = list(str)
    str_len = len(str)
    for i in range(3, str_len, 3):
        str_list.insert(str_len - i, ',')
    return ''.join(str_list)



From chardster at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 02:24:00 2009
From: chardster at gmail.com (Richard Thomas)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 23:24:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: unittest
References: 
Message-ID: <75330ab0-329c-4842-a5b0-ddf0ccefe8ea@r18g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 15, 4:28?am, Mag Gam  wrote:
> I am writing an application which has many command line arguments.
> For example: foo.py -args "bar bee"
>
> I would like to create a test suit using unittest so when I add
> features to "foo.py" I don't want to break other things. I just heard
> about unittest and would love to use it for this type of thing.
>
> so my question is, when I do these tests do I have to code them into
> foo.py? I prefer having a footest.py which will run the regression
> tests. Any thoughts about this?
>
> TIA

You should certainly keep your test suite separate. There's a quick
example of how to write unit tests in the unittest documentation:
http://docs.python.org/library/unittest.html#basic-example

Richard.


From python at rcn.com  Sat Aug 15 03:10:36 2009
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 00:10:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: implementing descriptors
References: <39aff5a5-97ec-41f7-ab26-6e4d842b9c5c@r33g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	 
	
Message-ID: <8e92d272-ddf8-44ef-9bc9-86b60a5855e5@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

> Raymond,
> ? ?This functionality is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks! ?I'll
> be using this to solve my problem.
>
> ? ?Now that I'm on the right track, I'm still a bit confused about how
> __get__ and __set__ are useful. ?Admittedly, I don't need to
> understand them to solve this problem, but perhaps they may be useful
> in the future. ?If I wanted to solve this problem using __get__ and
> __set__ could it be done?

The __get__ and __set__ methods are used to implement property()
itself.
So, if you didn't have property, you could roll your own version:

class MyProperty(object):

    def __init__(self, fget, fset):
        self.fget = fget
        self.fset = fset

    def __get__(self, obj, objtype=None):
        return self.fget(obj)

    def __set__(self, obj, value):
        self.fset(obj, value)


class foo(object):
    def __init__(self,a = None,b = None):
        self._start = a
        self._end = b
    def get_start(self):
        return self._start
    def set_start(self, value):
        if self._end is None or value < self._end:
            self._start = value
        else:
            self._end = value
    start = MyProperty(get_start, set_start)
    def get_end(self):
        return self._end
    def set_end(self, value):
        if self._start is None or value > self._start:
            self._end = value
        else:
            self._start = value
    end = MyProperty(get_end, set_end)


Raymond



From mobiledreamers at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 03:12:56 2009
From: mobiledreamers at gmail.com (mobiledreamers at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 00:12:56 -0700
Subject: Natural Language Processing in Python
In-Reply-To: <9fdb569a0908141126x19d2d4c5q6abc99de7e390f94@mail.gmail.com>
References: 
	<9fdb569a0908141126x19d2d4c5q6abc99de7e390f94@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

Try this out

Fotoroll does term extraction http://bit.ly/HCPDi

So to get json output of list of terms post to
http://fotoroll.com/findterms?json=true&text=Content+to+extract terms from

Hope this helps

Fotoroll Term extraction No limit on number of queries per day Yahoo 5000
queries a day Zemanta 1000 queries a day with regn

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 11:26 AM, Vlastimil Brom
wrote:

> 2009/8/14 Prateek :
> > Hi,
> >
> > Can somebody please provide me link to a good online resource or e-
> > book for doing natural language processing programming in Python.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Prateek
> > --
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> >
>
> Maybe you could start with NLTK
> http://www.nltk.org/
> Check the toolkit as well as the documentation.
>
> hth
>  vbr
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
Bidegg worlds best auction site
http://bidegg.com
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From dmitrey.kroshko at scipy.org  Sat Aug 15 03:17:04 2009
From: dmitrey.kroshko at scipy.org (dmitrey)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 00:17:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: "for" cycle with assigning index
Message-ID: <4149f0b2-603d-4c59-aa34-bd0fd826303c@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

Hi all,
could you inform me how to do it properly?

I have the cycle

for i in xrange(len(Funcs2)): # Funcs2 is Python dict
     Funcs.append(lambda *args, **kwargs: (Funcs2[i](*args, **kwargs)
[IndDict[left_arr_indexes[i]]]))

So, all the Funcs are initialized with i = last index = len(Funcs2)

When I involve

for i in xrange(len(Funcs2)):
     Funcs.append(lambda i=i,*args, **kwargs: (Funcs2[i](*args,
**kwargs)[IndDict[left_arr_indexes[i]]]))

I get "list indices must be integers, not dict" (and i is equal to
Python dictionary, that is Funcs2)

So, how to do it correctly?
Thank you in advance, D.


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Sat Aug 15 03:29:13 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 09:29:13 +0200
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a Serial
	port?
In-Reply-To: <20090814135837.11286.700809778.divmod.xquotient.174@localhost.localdomain>
References: 
	<200908141538.15798.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
	<20090814135837.11286.700809778.divmod.xquotient.174@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <200908150929.13885.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Friday 14 August 2009 15:58:37 exarkun at twistedmatrix.com wrote:

> One strategy you might employ to get rid of the busy looping is to use
> Twisted and its serial port support.  This also addresses the full-
> duplex issue you've raised.

I know - vaguely - about twisted and I have been dancing around the fire, not 
really ready to put the time in to understand it properly.   Looks like the 
time has come though - my weekend is really going to hell.

I am now going to make a loopback connector and start playing.

Thanks to everybody for the feedback.

- Hendrik


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 03:39:59 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 00:39:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: "for" cycle with assigning index
References: <4149f0b2-603d-4c59-aa34-bd0fd826303c@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6a5fd53a-1c29-48d3-b3cc-c48350acc736@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 15, 12:17?am, dmitrey  wrote:
> Hi all,
> could you inform me how to do it properly?
>
> I have the cycle
>
> for i in xrange(len(Funcs2)): # Funcs2 is Python dict
> ? ? ?Funcs.append(lambda *args, **kwargs: (Funcs2[i](*args, **kwargs)
> [IndDict[left_arr_indexes[i]]]))
>
> So, all the Funcs are initialized with i = last index = len(Funcs2)
>
> When I involve
>
> for i in xrange(len(Funcs2)):
> ? ? ?Funcs.append(lambda i=i,*args, **kwargs: (Funcs2[i](*args,
> **kwargs)[IndDict[left_arr_indexes[i]]]))
>
> I get "list indices must be integers, not dict" (and i is equal to
> Python dictionary, that is Funcs2)
>
> So, how to do it correctly?
> Thank you in advance, D.


Define a helper function to do it:

def create_funcs_caller(i):
    def func(*args,**kwargs):
        return(Funcs2[i](*args,**kwargs)[IndDict[left_arr_indexes
[i]]]))
    retirm func

for i in xrange(len(Funcs2)):
    Funcs.append(create_funcs_caller(i))


(I prefer to do it this way in any case; never liked the keyword
argument hack way of doing it.)


Carl Banks


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Sat Aug 15 03:52:21 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 09:52:21 +0200
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a Serial
	port?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <200908150952.21825.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Friday 14 August 2009 16:19:04 Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2009-08-14, Hendrik van Rooyen  wrote:
> > In the meantime I have had another idea which I have also not tried yet,
> > namely to do independent opens for reading and writing, to give me two
> > file instances instead of one, and to try with that.  I have no idea if
> > it would make any difference, or even work at all.
>
> That should work (and shouldn't make any difference)
>
> > My normal stuff works, but I do not like it as it is
> > essentially busy looping with short sleeps in between. In the
> > eBox, it uses most of the processor just to move a few bytes
> > of I/O in and out between the serial port and the TCP/IP, and
> > struggles to do that better than five times a second, while
> > the message time on the 115200 baud port is only about 2
> > milliseconds.
>
> What platform are you using?  I suppose it's possible that
> there's something broken in the serial driver for that
> particular hardware.

Your experience seems to be exactly the opposite to mine - you are saying it 
should "just work" and I am seeing half duplex functionality.

I have seen this on my development machine which is a dual processor of some 
gigs running SuSe Linux 10.3, as well as on the other end of a the scale - 
the eBox (a 400MHz 486 without floating point with 128 Mb of memory) running 
Slackware.

Maybe it is in the way I set the port up, because that is the common thing. 
What I do is this:

reterror = os.system('stty -F /dev/ttyS0 sane 115200 cread clocal raw -echo')

It does not seem to make a difference if I do this before or after opening the 
port.

Any comments from a Linux Guru?

- Hendrik





From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Sat Aug 15 04:09:02 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 10:09:02 +0200
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a Serial
	port?
In-Reply-To: <7el95aF2h0d12U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: 
	
	<7el95aF2h0d12U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <200908151009.02540.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Friday 14 August 2009 16:03:22 Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

> You should *really* just use pyserial. No hassle, instant satisfaction.

:-)  I have downloaded and had a quick look, and I see it is based on the 
standard library's serial.Serial class - another battery that I have not used 
before.  And I see that serial.Serial looks like it uses os. calls, which is 
one of the things Greg mentioned.  Curioser and Curioser.

There was one thing I saw in a quick read of pyserial  that I did not like as 
I cannot understand why it is done - if a timeout  is set to less than a 
tenth of a second, then it is changed to be a tenth.  - In a polling protocol 
that will limit you to poll only ten terminals a second, or less, and is a 
very long time if a message takes only a couple of millis to send.

I am getting there - this time around I want to kill this problem dead because 
I seem to keep doing something wrong somewhere and I want to understand what 
it is and stop doing it.

- Hendrik



From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Sat Aug 15 04:14:39 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 10:14:39 +0200
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a Serial
	port?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <200908151014.39683.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Friday 14 August 2009 16:19:36 Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2009-08-14, exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  wrote:
> > One strategy you might employ to get rid of the busy looping
> > is to use Twisted and its serial port support.  This also
> > addresses the full- duplex issue you've raised.
>
> There are no such full-dulex issues.

I will put an example together as soon as I have finished reading and 
answering the mail - maybe I am crazy and chasing angels.

- Hendrik



From http  Sat Aug 15 04:15:13 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 15 Aug 2009 01:15:13 -0700
Subject: "for" cycle with assigning index
References: <4149f0b2-603d-4c59-aa34-bd0fd826303c@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<6a5fd53a-1c29-48d3-b3cc-c48350acc736@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7x1vndbii6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Carl Banks  writes:
> def create_funcs_caller(i):
>     def func(*args,**kwargs):
>         return(Funcs2[i](*args,**kwargs)[IndDict[left_arr_indexes[i]]])
>     retirm func
> 
> for i in xrange(len(Funcs2)):
>     Funcs.append(create_funcs_caller(i))

I prefer to get rid of the index variable:

    def create_funcs_caller(f,ix):
       return lambda *args, **kw: f(*args,**kw)[ix]

    Funcs = list(create_funcs_caller(f,ix)
                   for f,ix in zip(Funcs2, left_arr_indexes))

Or in point-free style:

    from itertools import starmap

    Funcs = starmap(create_funcs_caller, zip(Funcs2,left_arr_indexes))


From xahlee at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 04:18:39 2009
From: xahlee at gmail.com (Xah Lee)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 01:18:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: A Exhibition Of Tech Geekers Incompetence: Emacs whitespace-mode
References: <61ef4451-d6b6-493b-b4a0-1822a901ca8d@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Fresh out of the oven:

? How to use and setup Emacs's whitespace-mode
  http://xahlee.org/emacs/whitespace-mode.html

  Xah
? http://xahlee.org/

?

On Aug 13, 6:36 pm, Xah Lee  wrote:
> ? A Exhibition Of Tech Geekers Incompetence: Emacs whitespace-mode
>  http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/emacs_whitespace-mode_problems.html
>
> plane text version follows:
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> A Exhibition Of Tech Geekers Incompetence: Emacs whitespace-mode
>
> Xah Lee, 2009-08-13
>
> Just wanted to express some frustration with whitespace-mode.
>
> Emacs 23, just released, has this whitespace-mode feature. It renders
> spaces, tabs, newlines characters with a visible glyph. This feature,
> is in Microsoft Word since about 1992.
>
> This feature is important in practical ways. For example, when you
> work with ?tab separated line? files (CSV) that's a common format for
> importing/exporting address books or spreadsheets. It's also important
> in whitespace-significant langs such as Python. Or, in text processing
> when placement of space and tabs matters in the output.
>
> All i wanted, is to make Space and Tab and Newline chars visible.
>
> However, the emacs whitespace-mode does much more than that. It is
> designed for tech geeking control freaks to tune every aspect of white
> space in his source code. The mode is filled with bells and whistles.
> It distinguishes tabs mixed with spaces, EOLs mixed with spaces, EOLs
> at beginning of file, EOLs at end of file, run on spaces at end of
> line, lines that has nothing to do with white spaces but is simply
> longer than 80 chars, etc. Each of these is rendered with different
> foreground, background, colors, so that they cannot possibly escape
> the notices of control freaks.
>
> By default, most of these are on, so that, when you turn on the mode,
> most reasonable clean source code become this colorful rainbow
> unreadable fuck.
>
> I tried to tune it, with my 10 years of emacs of fucking 16 hours of
> using per day, and 3 years of elisp coding experience. But, after a
> hour, it's confusion hell sans avail.
>
> O, that Alex idiot with his emacswiki, refused to lead emacswiki into
> any readable state. All he can think about is my social skills. (See:
> Problems of Emacswiki.)
>
> What the fuck motherfuck. Hi tech geekers, coding freaks, social
> science ignoramus fucks, basic economics illiterate FSF fucks, freedom
> abusing selfish ideologists fucks, Richard Stallman propagandist fuck,
> we-try-to-be-easy-to-use linuxer idioting fucks, FUCK U.
>
>   Xah
> ? http://xahlee.org/
>
> ?


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Sat Aug 15 04:32:17 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 10:32:17 +0200
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a Serial
	port?
In-Reply-To: <1aGdnessDpUX6RjXnZ2dnUVZ_gCdnZ2d@posted.visi>
References: 
	<7el2mqF2gi53eU1@mid.individual.net>
	<1aGdnessDpUX6RjXnZ2dnUVZ_gCdnZ2d@posted.visi>
Message-ID: <200908151032.17185.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Friday 14 August 2009 16:28:26 Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2009-08-14, greg  wrote:
> > Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:
8<---------------------------------------------------------------

> Doh!  It didn't even occur to me that somebody would use python
> "file" objects for serial ports, and I completely overlooked
> the fact that the OP was doing that.
>
> In short: don't do that -- it just messes things up

*grin*

All right that makes me feel better - you were so adamant that there is no 
problem that I was starting to doubt my sanity. - So I hereby cancel the 
promise I have just made to put an example together. - It is no longer 
needed.

>
> Do not use Python file objects.  Use the underlying file
> descriptors: os.open(), os.read(), os.write().  That will
> almost certainly solve your problems.
>
> If you want examples of os.xxxxx() usage, below is the
> PosixSerial.py module that I use for Linux-only applications.
> For cross-platform work, use pyserial (whose Posix support is
> based on the code below).
>

8<  ---------------------------------PosixSerial.py----------------------------

Thanks that looks, on first inspection, similar to the serialposix.py module 
in the stdlib, but less cluttered.

- Hendrik


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 04:41:53 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 01:41:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	
	
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	 
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro ups.com> 
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	 
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	
	 
	
Message-ID: <9e93859d-cfca-43ff-8bae-65308a8e1c4d@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 14, 10:15?pm, Bill Jones  wrote:
> On Aug 8, 3:27?pm, Mark Lawrence  wrote:
> > My gut feeling (which could of course be wrong) is that many hard core
> > Pythonistas are cheesed off with newbies who refuse to help themselves.
>
> The funny thing is that their response is to shutdown changes that are
> intended
> to *help* newbies help themselves. It seems self-defeating to me.

Intended to help newbies doesn't necessarily mean it actually will
help newbies.

(Just sayin'.)


Carl Banks


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Sat Aug 15 04:47:22 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 10:47:22 +0200
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in
	string literals]
In-Reply-To: <02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <200908151047.22231.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Friday 14 August 2009 18:11:52 Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 07:07:31 -0700, Aahz wrote:
> > "I saw `cout' being shifted "Hello world" times to the left and stopped
> > right there."  --Steve Gonedes
>
> Assuming that's something real, and not invented for humour, I presume
> that's describing something possible in C++. Am I correct? What the hell
> would it actually do???

It would shift "cout" left "Hello World" times.
It is unclear if the shift wraps around or not.

It is similar to a banana *holding his hands apart about a foot* this colour.

- Hendrik


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sat Aug 15 04:48:30 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 04:48:30 -0400
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in 
	string literals]
In-Reply-To: <200908151047.22231.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<200908151047.22231.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908150148o1532b656od0582acf261311ad@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 4:47 AM, Hendrik van
Rooyen wrote:
> On Friday 14 August 2009 18:11:52 Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 07:07:31 -0700, Aahz wrote:
>> > "I saw `cout' being shifted "Hello world" times to the left and stopped
>> > right there." ?--Steve Gonedes
>>
>> Assuming that's something real, and not invented for humour, I presume
>> that's describing something possible in C++. Am I correct? What the hell
>> would it actually do???
>
> It would shift "cout" left "Hello World" times.
> It is unclear if the shift wraps around or not.
>
> It is similar to a banana *holding his hands apart about a foot* this colour.
>
> - Hendrik

I think you managed to successfully dereference the null pointer there...

Cheers,
Chris


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Sat Aug 15 04:50:43 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 10:50:43 +0200
Subject: Why does my ftp script quit after couple of hours?
In-Reply-To: <337951bf-4d0d-4dde-95de-8e6d7d68a7f5@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
References: <6ec34299-107d-48c7-a5bf-6a10d5911411@j9g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	<7elh1lF2h1rl0U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<337951bf-4d0d-4dde-95de-8e6d7d68a7f5@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <200908151050.43954.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Friday 14 August 2009 18:25:50 kk wrote:

> As far as robustness, I agree with your assestment. I guess my main
> confusion with my result is that the console window just disappears. I
> wonder if I can make the window stay even if it crashesor if there are
> connection issues? I will createa  seperate log file to see if I can
> catch any issues in a log file.

try opening python with the -i flag - then the console window hangs around 
after the script exits and you can examine variables and stuff.

- Hendrik


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Sat Aug 15 05:20:12 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 02:20:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
References: <24980842.post@talk.nabble.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 15, 11:38?am, Mark Lawrence  wrote:
> Dr. Phillip M. Feldman wrote:> I wrote the following correct but inefficient test of primality for purposes
> > of demonstrating that the simplest algorithm is often not the most
> > efficient. ?But, when I try to run the following code with a value of n that
> > is large enough to produce a significant amount of running time, I get an
> > out-of-memory error!
>
> > def is_prime(n):
> > ? ?for j in range(2,n):
> > ? ? ? if (n % j) == 0: return False
> > ? ?return True
>
> > It seems as though Python is actually expanding range(2,n) into a list of
> > numbers, even though this is incredibly wasteful of memory. There should be
> > a looping mechanism that generates the index variable values incrementally
> > as they are needed.
>
> I have a strong suspicion that you will find hints in the Python
> documentation that this has already been addressed. ?Perhaps you could
> try reading before posting?

Alternative hypothesis: the good doctor read the Python 3.x
documentation but absent-mindedly ran Python 2.x


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Sat Aug 15 05:21:12 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 11:21:12 +0200
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
In-Reply-To: <24980842.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <24980842.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <200908151121.12542.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Saturday 15 August 2009 03:25:45 Dr. Phillip M. Feldman wrote:

> It seems as though Python is actually expanding range(2,n) into a list of
> numbers, even though this is incredibly wasteful of memory. There should be
> a looping mechanism that generates the index variable values incrementally
> as they are needed.

There is.

Use xrange instead of range, and try again.

And while you are about it, you may as well teach them that it is much better 
to do a multiplication than a division.

-Hendrik



From sleepy at cabbage.co.uk  Sat Aug 15 05:25:19 2009
From: sleepy at cabbage.co.uk (Sleepy Cabbage)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 09:25:19 GMT
Subject: get the pause status from amarok 2.1
References: 
	<7eku4bF2gtku3U2@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3avhm.248709$bA.165466@newsfe16.ams2>

On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 12:55:07 +0200, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

> Sleepy Cabbage schrieb:
>> As the title says, I'm trying to find a way to get the pause status
>> from amarok 2.1.
>> 
>> I'm running kubuntu 9.04 with kde 4.2.2, python 2.6.2.
>> 
>> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Not at my linux-system right now, but dcop and the respective
> python-module should help.
> 
> Diez

Thanks for you reply Diez. i'm sure that kde4.2 now uses qdbus instead of 
dcop and not sure whether amarok has the qdbus org.kde.amarok /Player 
GetStatus as it returns the following: 
qdbus: I don't know how to display an argument of type '(iiii)'



From bh at izb.knu.ac.kr  Sat Aug 15 05:34:38 2009
From: bh at izb.knu.ac.kr (Byung-Hee HWANG)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 18:34:38 +0900
Subject: A Exhibition Of Tech Geekers Incompetence: Emacs whitespace-mode
References: <61ef4451-d6b6-493b-b4a0-1822a901ca8d@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <861vnda09d.fsf@betla.izb.knu.ac.kr>

Xah Lee  writes:

> ? A Exhibition Of Tech Geekers Incompetence: Emacs whitespace-mode
>   http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/emacs_whitespace-mode_problems.html
> [... snip 38 lines ...]

OK, Xah, thanks for good writing, i'll read it 27 hours later. And i
respect for your passion on Elisp, Python and text processing. BTW, i
don't agree with your thought that you dislike FSF. FSF is not bad
guy. Xah plz... 

Sincerely,

-- 
"Don Michael."
		-- Peter Clemenza, "Chapter 31", page 435


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Sat Aug 15 06:29:28 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 12:29:28 +0200
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a Serial
	port?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<7el2mqF2gi53eU1@mid.individual.net> 
Message-ID: <200908151229.29027.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Saturday 15 August 2009 04:03:42 Terry Reedy wrote:
> greg wrote:
> > You can't read and write with the same stdio file object
> > at the same time. Odd things tend to happen if you try.
>
> I believe the C standard specifies that the behavior of mixed reads and
> writes is undefined without intervening seek and/or flush, even if the
> seek is ignored (as it is on some Unix systems). With two threads, the
> timing is undetermined.

For a serial port, flush on write makes some sense, but seek is complete 
nonsense because it is undefined, and besides-  the point you try to seek to 
may never come around.  So the message I am getting loud and clear is that 
the basic thing I am doing wrong is to use the ordinary python open() instead 
of os.open().

As for the timing in two threads - Yes you are right, but there is not a lot 
one can do about it - The right solution depends to a large extent on what 
you are doing - for instance, if you are writing a polling protocol (such as 
Burroughs poll-select, or Uniscope), then you want a loop that transmits 
something, and waits for an answer or time out.  This is essentially half 
duplex, and in a high level language the natural structure to write this is 
in one thread.   On the other hand, if you are writing a sliding window type 
protocol that is capable of pouring stuff into a link asynchronously from 
both ends, then the natural way to do it is to use two threads - one to 
handle incoming stuff, and the other to squirt out the data that must go out.  
If, as is true in my case, the source of outgoing data and the sink for 
incoming data is a TCP/IP socket, then one can accomplish this with blocking 
I/O quite efficiently, provided you have a third thread looking after overall 
timing Issues.  For such a case, the timing is essentially determined by the 
flow of the data (provided of course that you can keep up with the link 
speed).   When one introduces another variable into the equation, namely the 
requirement to do a transmission at least every n milliseconds, (a feel-good 
keepalive) then you need a time out on the sources, so that you can either do 
a transmission or raise an alarm because a reporting period was missed.  So 
then you are back at a loop waiting for input or timeout, and doing a 
transmission afterwards.  Only now there are two of them, facing in opposite 
directions. 

I think this sort of thing is better written at a lower level where one has 
access to the interrupts from the ports, as well as a timer interrupt to 
handle timing and timeout issues.  But that is a lot of work, so I make do 
with python.

- Hendrik


From magawake at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 07:32:15 2009
From: magawake at gmail.com (Mag Gam)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 07:32:15 -0400
Subject: unittest
In-Reply-To: <75330ab0-329c-4842-a5b0-ddf0ccefe8ea@r18g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<75330ab0-329c-4842-a5b0-ddf0ccefe8ea@r18g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1cbd6f830908150432v4a88ad86ge9a266b647088fca@mail.gmail.com>

So, in this example:

"import random"

In my case I would do "import foo" ? is there anything I need to do for that?




On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 2:24 AM, Richard Thomas wrote:
> On Aug 15, 4:28?am, Mag Gam  wrote:
>> I am writing an application which has many command line arguments.
>> For example: foo.py -args "bar bee"
>>
>> I would like to create a test suit using unittest so when I add
>> features to "foo.py" I don't want to break other things. I just heard
>> about unittest and would love to use it for this type of thing.
>>
>> so my question is, when I do these tests do I have to code them into
>> foo.py? I prefer having a footest.py which will run the regression
>> tests. Any thoughts about this?
>>
>> TIA
>
> You should certainly keep your test suite separate. There's a quick
> example of how to write unit tests in the unittest documentation:
> http://docs.python.org/library/unittest.html#basic-example
>
> Richard.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Sat Aug 15 07:44:59 2009
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (greg)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 23:44:59 +1200
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a Serial
	port?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<7el2mqF2gi53eU1@mid.individual.net>
	
Message-ID: <7enlcsF2fqpebU1@mid.individual.net>

Terry Reedy wrote:

> I believe the C standard specifies that the behavior of mixed reads and 
> writes is undefined without intervening seek and/or flush, even if the 
> seek is ignored (as it is on some Unix systems). With two threads, the 
> timing is undetermined.

It's also possible that the stdio object is being locked
while one of the threads is using it, which would also
account for the observed half-duplex behaviour.

Another good reason to steer clear of file objects!

-- 
Greg


From chris at simplistix.co.uk  Sat Aug 15 07:55:37 2009
From: chris at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 12:55:37 +0100
Subject: Python 2.6 still not giving memory back to the OS...
Message-ID: <4A86A239.3030404@simplistix.co.uk>

Hi All,

I thought this was fixed back in Python 2.5, but I guess not?

So, I'm playing in an interactive session:

 >>> from xlrd import open_workbook
 >>> b = open_workbook('some.xls',pickleable=0,formatting_info=1)

At this point, top shows the process usage for python to be about 500Mb.
That's okay, I'd expect that, b is big ;-)

 >>> del b

However, it still does now, maybe the garbage collector needs a kick?

 >>> import gc
 >>> gc.collect()
702614

Nope, still 500Mb. What gives? How can I make Python give the memory its 
no longer using back to the OS?

Okay, so maybe this is something to do with it being an interactive 
session? So I wrote this script:

from xlrd import open_workbook
import gc
b = open_workbook('some.xls',pickleable=0,formatting_info=1)
print 'opened'
raw_input()
del b
print 'deleted'
raw_input()
gc.collect()
print 'gc'
raw_input()

The raw inputs are there so I can check the memory usage in top.
Even after the gc, Python still hasn't given the memory back to the OS :-(

What am I doing wrong?

Chris

-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting
            - http://www.simplistix.co.uk


From contact at xavierho.com  Sat Aug 15 08:09:50 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 22:09:50 +1000
Subject: What happened to __cmp__() in Python 3.x?
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908150509k1b6a3b98j7e76ae6596108280@mail.gmail.com>

Hey all,

I've recently made my way to Python 3.1 and I'm not seeing __cmp__() in the
documentation.

Is there a substitution for this special method in 3.1, or do I really have
to define all six rich comparison methods to work it out?

If this question has already been asked somewhere, I apologise in advance.
Already googled around but I didn't find information on this.

Any replies appreciated.

Ching-Yun "Xavier" Ho, Technical Artist

Contact Information
Mobile: (+61) 04 3335 4748
Skype ID: SpaXe85
Email: contact at xavierho.com
Website: http://xavierho.com/
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From contact at xavierho.com  Sat Aug 15 08:16:14 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 22:16:14 +1000
Subject: What's a good solution to implement rich comparison for user-defined 
	classes? (was: What happened to __cmp__() in Python 3.x?)
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908150516i7fb00b80ub3e9481c8bf3f3f9@mail.gmail.com>

Never mind my last email. Google actually found me something at last.

I also found this page:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2008-November/688591.html

That still uses a sloppy way of defining the special methods, and a little
chunky.

Is there a better way for the lazy me?

Ching-Yun "Xavier" Ho, Technical Artist

Contact Information
Mobile: (+61) 04 3335 4748
Skype ID: SpaXe85
Email: contact at xavierho.com
Website: http://xavierho.com/
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From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Aug 15 08:25:00 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 15 Aug 2009 12:25:00 GMT
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
References: 
Message-ID: <02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:25:45 -0700, Dr. Phillip M. Feldman wrote:

> It seems as though Python is actually expanding range(2,n) into a list
> of numbers, even though this is incredibly wasteful of memory. There
> should be a looping mechanism that generates the index variable values
> incrementally as they are needed.


Others have already pointed out to you that xrange() (for Python 2.x) 
does what you want. In Python 3.x, the old range() is gone for good, and 
xrange() renamed to just range().

However, I'd like to point out that your subject line is fundamentally 
incorrect. What you've discovered has *nothing* to do with for-loops: the 
for-loop will happily iterate over whatever object you pass to it (or at 
least try to, because not all objects are iterable). You might be 
thinking that Python requires you to write for-loops as 

for i in range(...):

but that's not correct. The for-loop doesn't care what object comes after 
the "in" and before the ":", so long as it can iterate over it one item 
at a time:

for i in [1, 3, 4, 5, 2, 0, -1, 8, 7, 6]:
    print i

for c in "abcd":
    print c

and many other variations will work perfectly fine.


The memory-consumption you have discovered is a property of the range() 
function, not the for-loop:

>>> L = range(2, 20)
>>> L
[2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19]

Compare to xrange:

>>> L = xrange(2, 20)
>>> L
xrange(2, 20)
>>> list(L)  # expand out into a list
[2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19]


By the way, both range() and xrange() take an optional 'stepsize' 
argument, defaulting to 1:

>>> range(3, 20, 2)
[3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17, 19]


help(range) and help(xrange) in the interactive interpreter are your 
friends.



-- 
Steven


From candide at free.invalid  Sat Aug 15 08:28:27 2009
From: candide at free.invalid (candide)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 14:28:27 +0200
Subject: Splitting a string into substrings of equal size
In-Reply-To: <4a85ffe2$0$24643$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4a85ffe2$0$24643$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4a86a9eb$0$1557$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

Thanks to all for your response.  I particularly appreciate Rascal's solution.


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Aug 15 08:39:47 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 15 Aug 2009 12:39:47 GMT
Subject: unittest
References: 
	<75330ab0-329c-4842-a5b0-ddf0ccefe8ea@r18g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <02969ce9$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 07:32:15 -0400, Mag Gam wrote:

> So, in this example:
> 
> "import random"
> 
> In my case I would do "import foo" ? is there anything I need to do for
> that?


Suppose you have a file mymodule.py containing your code, and you want 
some unit tests. 

If you only have a few, you can probably put them inside mymodule.py, but 
let's say you have lots and want to keep them in a separate file. So 
create a new module mymoduletests.py, and start it like this:

# mymoduletests.py

import unittest
import mymodule

class MyTests(unittest.TestCase):  # Inherit from the TestCase class.
    # Put your tests inside this class
    def test_module_has_docstring(self):
        """Fail if the module has no docstring, or if it is empty."""
        docstring = mymodule.__doc__
        self.assert_(docstring is not None)
        self.assert_(docstring.strip() != '')

if __name__ == '__main__':
    # only execute this part when you run the module
    # not when you import it
    unittest.main()




Now to actually run the tests, from command-line, type:

python mymoduletests.py

and hit enter. (You do this from the operating system shell, not the 
Python interactive interpreter.) You should see something like this:

.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ran 1 tests in 0.001s

OK




-- 
Steven


From michael at stroeder.com  Sat Aug 15 08:40:35 2009
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?=)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 14:40:35 +0200
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a Serial
	port?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4vmil6-ait.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>

Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:
> In the past, on this  group, I have made statements that said that on Linux, 
> the serial port handling somehow does not allow transmitting and receiving at 
> the same time, and nobody contradicted me.

Despite all the good comments here by other skilled people I'd recommend to
determine whether the transmission line to the devices accessed support full
duplex.

My knowledge is a bit rusty on this topic. But I vaguely remember having to
deal with symmetric two-wire connections (RS-485) which were definitely
limited to half-duplex by the wire. So the PC hardware was a normal serial
port with the usual UART hardware device but the transmission protocols were
limited to half-duplex.

Ciao, Michael.


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Sat Aug 15 09:38:53 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 15:38:53 +0200
Subject: Splitting a string into substrings of equal size
In-Reply-To: <3842c750-9633-4e8e-84da-4853784bce64@v37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
References: <4a85ffe2$0$24643$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	
	
	<3842c750-9633-4e8e-84da-4853784bce64@v37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Dnia 15-08-2009 o 08:08:14 Rascal  wrote:

> I'm bored for posting this, but here it is:
>
> def add_commas(str):
>     str_list = list(str)
>     str_len = len(str)
>     for i in range(3, str_len, 3):
>         str_list.insert(str_len - i, ',')
>     return ''.join(str_list)

For short strings (for sure most common case) it's ok: simple and clear.
But for huge ones, it's better not to materialize additional list for the
string -- then pure-iterator-sollutions would be better (like Gabriel's or
mine).

Cheers,
*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From davea at ieee.org  Sat Aug 15 09:44:25 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 09:44:25 -0400
Subject: Python 2.6 still not giving memory back to the OS...
In-Reply-To: <4A86A239.3030404@simplistix.co.uk>
References: <4A86A239.3030404@simplistix.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4A86BBB9.5010705@ieee.org>

Chris Withers wrote:
> 
Hi All,
>
> I thought this was fixed back in Python 2.5, but I guess not?
>
> So, I'm playing in an interactive session:
>
> >>> from xlrd import open_workbook
> >>> b = open_workbook('some.xls',pickleable=0,formatting_info=1)
>
> At this point, top shows the process usage for python to be about 500Mb.
> That's okay, I'd expect that, b is big ;-)
>
> >>> del b
>
> However, it still does now, maybe the garbage collector needs a kick?
>
> >>> import gc
> >>> gc.collect()
> 702614
>
> Nope, still 500Mb. What gives? How can I make Python give the memory 
> its no longer using back to the OS?
>
> Okay, so maybe this is something to do with it being an interactive 
> session? So I wrote this script:
>
> from xlrd import open_workbook
> import gc
> b = open_workbook('some.xls',pickleable=0,formatting_info=1)
> print 'opened'
> raw_input()
> del b
> print 'deleted'
> raw_input()
> gc.collect()
> print 'gc'
> raw_input()
>
> The raw inputs are there so I can check the memory usage in top.
> Even after the gc, Python still hasn't given the memory back to the OS 
> :-(
>
> What am I doing wrong?
>
> Chris
>
You're not doing anything wrong.  I don't know of any other environment 
that "gives the memory back" to the OS.

I don't know Unix/Linux memory management, but I do know Windows, and I 
suspect the others are quite similar.  There are a few memory allocators 
within Windows itself, and some more within the MSC runtime library.  
They work similarly enough that I can safely just choose one to 
explain.  I'll pick on malloc().

When malloc() is called for the first time (long before your module is 
loaded), it asks the operating system's  low-level mapping allocator for 
a multiple of 64k.  The 64k will always be aligned on a 64k boundary, 
and is in turn divided into 4k pages.  The 64k could come from one of 
three places -  the swapfile, an executable (or DLL), or a data file, 
but there's not much real difference between those.  malloc() itself 
will always use the swapfile.  Anyway, at this point my memory is a 
little bit fuzzy.  I think only 4k of the swapfile is actually mapped 
in, the rest being reserved.  But malloc() will then build some data 
structures for that 64k block, and as memory is requested, get more and 
more pieces of that 64k, till the whole thing is mapped in.  Then, 
additional multiples of 64k are allocated in the same way, and of course 
the data structures are chained together.  If an application "frees" a 
block, the data structure is updated, but the memory is not unmapped.  
Theoretically, if all the blocks within one 64k were freed, malloc() 
could release the 64k block to the OS, but to the best of my knowledge, 
malloc() never does.   Incidentally, there's a different scheme for 
large blocks, but that's changed several times, and I have no idea how 
it's done now.

Now, C programmers sometimes write a custom allocator, and in C++, it's 
not hard to have a custom allocator manage all instances of a particular 
class.  This can be convenient for applications that know how their 
memory usage patterns are likely to work.  Photoshop for example can be 
configured to use "user swap space" (I forget what they call it) from 
files that Photoshop explicitly allocates.  And space from that 
allocator is not from the swapfile, so it's not constrained by other 
running applications, and wouldn't be counted by the Windows equivalent 
of  'top'  (eg. the Windows Task Manager).

A custom allocator can also be designed to know when a particular set of 
allocations are all freed, and release the memory entirely back to the 
system.  For instance, if all temp data for a particular transaction is 
put into an appropriate custom allocator, then at the end of the 
transaction, it can safely be released.

I would guess that Python doesn't do any custom allocators, and 
therefore never releases the memory back to the system.  It will however 
reuse it when you allocate more stuff.


DaveA  (author of the memory tracking subsystem of NuMega's BoundsChecker)



From grante at visi.com  Sat Aug 15 10:25:03 2009
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 09:25:03 -0500
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a Serial
	port?
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-15, Hendrik van Rooyen  wrote:
> On Friday 14 August 2009 16:19:04 Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>> What platform are you using?  I suppose it's possible that
>> there's something broken in the serial driver for that
>> particular hardware.
>
> Your experience seems to be exactly the opposite to mine - you
> are saying it should "just work" and I am seeing half duplex
> functionality.

If you're using Python's normal open()/read()/write() calls,
then that introduces all sorts of issues.  I always use direct
OS calls os.open(), os.read(), os.write().

> Any comments from a Linux Guru?

Are you using python file operations open/read/write or OS
file-descriptor operations os.open/os.read/os.write?

-- 
Grant



From grante at visi.com  Sat Aug 15 10:37:42 2009
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 09:37:42 -0500
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a Serial
	port?
References: 
	
	<7el95aF2h0d12U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-15, Hendrik van Rooyen  wrote:
> On Friday 14 August 2009 16:03:22 Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
>
>> You should *really* just use pyserial. No hassle, instant satisfaction.
>
>:-) I have downloaded and had a quick look, and I see it is
> based on the standard library's serial.Serial class - another
> battery that I have not used before.

There is no "serial" module in the standard library.  The
serial module is provided by pyserial.

> And I see that serial.Serial looks like it uses os. calls,
> which is one of the things Greg mentioned.

Indeed.  You shouldn't try to use normal open/read/write calls
with serial ports.

-- 
Grant



From grante at visi.com  Sat Aug 15 10:40:09 2009
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 09:40:09 -0500
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a Serial
	port?
References: 
	<7el2mqF2gi53eU1@mid.individual.net>
	<1aGdnessDpUX6RjXnZ2dnUVZ_gCdnZ2d@posted.visi>
	
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-15, Hendrik van Rooyen  wrote:

> 8<  ---------------------------------PosixSerial.py----------------------------
>
> Thanks that looks, on first inspection, similar to the
> serialposix.py module in the stdlib, but less cluttered.

pyserial is a bit more complex because it is cross-platform and
supports Windows, as well as RFC2272 telnet backends (and OS
X?).  The Posix support in pyserial is based on an earlier
version of PosixSerial.

-- 
Grant



From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Sat Aug 15 12:11:49 2009
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 09:11:49 -0700
Subject: callable virtual method
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4A85798B.6020501@sequans.com>	<4A8587A0.6040008@mrabarnett.plus.com>		<02959b54$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:49:26 +0200, Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>>
>>  
>>> Sorry guys (means guys *and* gals :op ), I realized I've not been able
>>> to describe precisely what I want to do. I'd like the base class to be
>>> virtual (aka abstract). However it may be abstract but it does not mean
>>> it cannot do some usefull stuff.
>>>
>>>
>>> Here is the schema of my abstract methods :
>>>
>>> class Interface(object):
>>>     def method(self):
>>>         # ---------------------
>>>         # some common stuff executed here
>>>         # ---------------------
>>>         print 'hello world'
>>>         # ---------------------
>>>         # here shall stand child specific stuff (empty in the interface
>>> method)
>>>         # ---------------------
>>>         if self.__class__.method == Interface.method:
>>>             raise NotImplementedError('You should have read the f******
>>> manual ! You must override this method.')
>>>     
>>
>>
>> Okay, so I want to sub-class your Interface class. As you said, the 
>> methods in the abstract class are still useful, so in my class, I 
>> don't need any extra functionality for some methods -- I'm happy with 
>> just the "common stuff". So I use normal OO techniques and over-ride 
>> just the methods I need to over-ride:
>>
>>   
> Sometimes the base is doing cool stuff but incomplete stuff which 
> requires knowledge only hold by the sub class. In my case the interface 
> is a high level interface for a software that can run on multiple 
> hardware platforms. Only the sub class has knowledge on how to operate 
> the hardware, but no matter the hardware it still produces the same effect.
> 
> Let's say I have 50 different hardwares, I'll have 50 sub classes of 
> Interface with the 'start' method to define. It wouldn't be appropriate 
> (OO programming)to write 50 times '_log.debug('Starting %s' % self)' in 
> each child start method when the simple task of logging the call can be 
> nicely handled by the base class.
> 
> In the meantime, I must make sure  the user, who is not a python guru in 
> this case, has implemented the start method for his hardware, because 
> only him knows how to effectively start this hardware. I don't want him 
> to come to me saying, "I got no error, still my hardware does not 
> start". You can then blame him for not reading the docs, but it will 
> still be less expensive to throw a nice exception with an accurate 
> feedback.
> 
> [snip]
>> class VerboseGoodChild(Interface):
>>     # forced to over-ride methods for no good reason
>>   
> 
> Definitely no !! This is the purpose of an interface class: to force 
> people to write these methods. They *are* required, if they were not, 
> they would not belong to the Interface.
> 
> JM

But there _is_ one moment when you can check those things, then avoid
checking thereafter: object creation.  So you can complicate your
__init__ (or __new__) with those checks that make sure you instantiate
only fully defined subclasses:

# obviously not tested except in concept:

     class Base(object_or_whatever):
          def __init__(self, ...):
              class_ = self.__class__
              if class_ is Base:
                  raise TypeError('Attempt to instantiate Base class')
              for name in 'one two three four':
                  if getattr(Base, name) is not getattr(Base, name):
                      raise NotImplementedError(
                                  '%s implementation missing' % name)
              ...

--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From dickinsm at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 12:41:44 2009
From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 09:41:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python 2.6 still not giving memory back to the OS...
References: 
Message-ID: <38581c40-b7ed-4dbf-a3af-33e1761ba7b0@r7g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 15, 12:55?pm, Chris Withers  wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I thought this was fixed back in Python 2.5, but I guess not?
>
> So, I'm playing in an interactive session:
>
> ?>>> from xlrd import open_workbook
> ?>>> b = open_workbook('some.xls',pickleable=0,formatting_info=1)
>
> At this point, top shows the process usage for python to be about 500Mb.
> That's okay, I'd expect that, b is big ;-)
>
> ?>>> del b
>
> However, it still does now, maybe the garbage collector needs a kick?
>
> ?>>> import gc
> ?>>> gc.collect()
> 702614
>
> Nope, still 500Mb. What gives? How can I make Python give the memory its
> no longer using back to the OS?
> [...]

Can you get the same effects without using the xlrd module? I don't
have xlrd installed on my system (OS X 10.5/Intel), but I just tried
the following:

Python 2.6.2 (r262:71600, Jun 17 2009, 09:08:27)
[GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Inc. build 5490)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> b = 'x'*(10**9)
>>> f = open('testfile.txt', 'w')
>>> f.write(b)
>>> del b
>>> f = open('testfile.txt')
>>> b = f.read()
>>> del b

and got the expected memory usage for my Python process, as
displayed by top:  memory usage went up to nearly 1Gb after
each assignment to b, then dropped down to 19 Mb or so after
each 'del b'.  I get similar results under Python 2.5.

So maybe there's something in xlrd that's hanging on to all
that memory?

Mark


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Aug 15 12:47:07 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 17:47:07 +0100
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 			<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>		<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>	
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro
	ups.com>
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>	
		<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>		
	
Message-ID: 

Bill Jones wrote:
> On Aug 8, 3:27 pm, Mark Lawrence  wrote:
>> Kee Nethery wrote:
>>> As someone trying to learn the language I want to say that the tone on
>>> this list towards people who are trying to learn Python  feels like it
>>> has become anti-newbies.
>> [snip]
>>
>>> Kee Nethery
>> My gut feeling (which could of course be wrong) is that many hard core
>> Pythonistas are cheesed off with newbies who refuse to help themselves.
> 
> The funny thing is that their response is to shutdown changes that are
> intended
> to *help* newbies help themselves. It seems self-defeating to me.
> 
And I still do not believe this to be true.  Documents are being changed 
all the time.  See the python-dev mailing list "Summary of python 
tracker issues" dated 17/24/31 July and 07/14 August 2009.  The only 
request I recall being rejected is someone objecting to the use of 
"weapons" in a piece of sample code.

Also see Issue6660 on the bug tracker, it is of particular interest to 
anyone who's interested in plans for python.org documentation links.

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From markstahler at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 13:01:15 2009
From: markstahler at gmail.com (kramed)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 10:01:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Error: No SSL support included in this Python ?
Message-ID: 

Hi there, I am running Windows on my dev machine and am running into
the following error while running Django and my email routines.

Exception Type:  	RuntimeError
Exception Value: 	No SSL support included in this Python
Exception Location: 	C:\Python26\lib\smtplib.py in starttls, line 615

This may sounds stupid but I thought SSL support was baked into
Python? I am running Active State Python 2.6.2 and Django 1.1. The
code works on my server but emails are not being sent properly so I
need to debug the app.

Can someone please point out what I am missing. Thanks


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Aug 15 13:06:04 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 18:06:04 +0100
Subject: What happened to __cmp__() in Python 3.x?
In-Reply-To: <2d56febf0908150509k1b6a3b98j7e76ae6596108280@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2d56febf0908150509k1b6a3b98j7e76ae6596108280@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

Xavier Ho wrote:
> Hey all,
> 
> I've recently made my way to Python 3.1 and I'm not seeing __cmp__() in the
> documentation.
> 
> Is there a substitution for this special method in 3.1, or do I really have
> to define all six rich comparison methods to work it out?
> 
> If this question has already been asked somewhere, I apologise in advance.
> Already googled around but I didn't find information on this.
> 
> Any replies appreciated.
> 
> Ching-Yun "Xavier" Ho, Technical Artist
> 
> Contact Information
> Mobile: (+61) 04 3335 4748
> Skype ID: SpaXe85
> Email: contact at xavierho.com
> Website: http://xavierho.com/
> 
> 
http://bytes.com/topic/python/answers/844614-python-3-sorting-comparison-function

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Sat Aug 15 13:11:29 2009
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 10:11:29 -0700
Subject: unittest
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Mag Gam wrote:
> I am writing an application which has many command line arguments.
> For example: foo.py -args "bar bee"
> 
> I would like to create a test suit using unittest so when I add
> features to "foo.py" I don't want to break other things. I just heard
> about unittest and would love to use it for this type of thing.
> 
> so my question is, when I do these tests do I have to code them into
> foo.py? I prefer having a footest.py which will run the regression
> tests. Any thoughts about this?
> 
> TIA
I avoid putting the tests in foo.py, simply because the bulk of my
tests would make the code harder to read.  So, no, unittest does not
require that you code things into foo.py.  You will find that you
may bend your coding style within foo.py in order to make it more
testable, but (if you do it right) that should also make the code
clearer.

--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Aug 15 13:12:33 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 18:12:33 +0100
Subject: What's a good solution to implement rich comparison for
	user-defined classes? (was: What happened to __cmp__() in Python 3.x?)
In-Reply-To: <2d56febf0908150516i7fb00b80ub3e9481c8bf3f3f9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2d56febf0908150516i7fb00b80ub3e9481c8bf3f3f9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

Xavier Ho wrote:
> Never mind my last email. Google actually found me something at last.
> 
> I also found this page:
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2008-November/688591.html
> 
> That still uses a sloppy way of defining the special methods, and a little
> chunky.
> 
> Is there a better way for the lazy me?
> 
> Ching-Yun "Xavier" Ho, Technical Artist
> 
> Contact Information
> Mobile: (+61) 04 3335 4748
> Skype ID: SpaXe85
> Email: contact at xavierho.com
> Website: http://xavierho.com/
> 
> 
Did you follow on to this?
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2008-November/688661.html

I think it's your call as to what to do next.

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Sat Aug 15 13:18:53 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 19:18:53 +0200
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a Serial
	port?
In-Reply-To: <4vmil6-ait.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
References: 
	<4vmil6-ait.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
Message-ID: <200908151918.54065.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Saturday 15 August 2009 14:40:35 Michael Str?der wrote:
> Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:
> > In the past, on this  group, I have made statements that said that on
> > Linux, the serial port handling somehow does not allow transmitting and
> > receiving at the same time, and nobody contradicted me.
>
> Despite all the good comments here by other skilled people I'd recommend to
> determine whether the transmission line to the devices accessed support
> full duplex.
>
> My knowledge is a bit rusty on this topic. But I vaguely remember having to
> deal with symmetric two-wire connections (RS-485) which were definitely
> limited to half-duplex by the wire. So the PC hardware was a normal serial
> port with the usual UART hardware device but the transmission protocols
> were limited to half-duplex.

You raise a good point, that is probably not well known amongst the youngsters 
here, as simple serial multidropping has gone out of fashion.

There is nothing wrong with your memory as far as RS-485 goes - you have 
to "turn the line around", same as for *shudder* Burroughs TDI (Two Wire 
Direct Interface).  Otherwise, if two or more parties talk at once you have 
cacophony.  An RS-422 link is to some extent worse, as it is capable of full 
duplex, but the slaves cannot hear each other, so they have to listen and 
play very nicely with the master.

This instance Is not one of those, thank heaven - I am on both sides of the 
link - once in the eBox in python, and on the other side there is just one  
Dallas chip - a fast (30 Mhz single cycle) 8051 lookalike that I programmed 
in assembler.  It is a thing that does discrete I/O that we have made for a 
customer. The link in between is just RS-232 receive and transmit without 
hardware flow control or anything fancy.  This is why I was so certain that 
there was something wrong in my python part, because I could use the second 
port on the Dallas to do monitoring, by spewing stuff out into Hyper 
Terminal.

- Hendrik



From python-url at phaseit.net  Sat Aug 15 13:23:36 2009
From: python-url at phaseit.net (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 17:23:36 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Aug 15)
Message-ID: 

QOTW:  "They questioned my competence and that made her very sad." - Roger
Wallis,expert witness for Pirate Bay, on his wife
    http://torrentfreak.com/pirate-bay-witness-wife-overwhelmed-with-flowers-090227/


    unicode(s) is, surprisingly, MUCH faster (for certain encodings) than
    s.decode():
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/314a3043ea63319f/

    It is not possible to overload a compound "< <" operator (as in:
    a < x < b):
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/5b931a6417b7829d/

    Automatic join of "consecutive" " string " "literals": bug or feature?
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/174d4e2b7c0203d/

    Also, unrecognized escape sequences in string literals stay in the
    string: bug or feature?
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/4e1ea6f550a8a1d1/

    Restricting dictionary keys to those objects explicitely defining
    __eq__ / __hash__ may be useful in certain cases:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/d35856349110c18c/

    How to find out in which module an instance was created?
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/6acd71c326591325/

    Monkey-patching an instance to make it callable (without altering other
    instances of the same class):
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/6fdfc6458d82b581/

    reload() and the 'from ... import ...' form of the import statement:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/994a6af36febabb5/

    Several recipes to extract unique elements from a list:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/e5015c12a57b46b8/

    All those __double_underscored__ names are confusing - why do they exist?
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/e75ce772af98aaac/

    
========================================================================
Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    marvelous daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily

    Just beginning with Python?  This page is a great place to start:
	http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide/Programmers

    The Python Papers aims to publish "the efforts of Python enthusiasts":
	http://pythonpapers.org/
    The Python Magazine is a technical monthly devoted to Python:
	http://pythonmagazine.com

    Readers have recommended the "Planet" sites:
	http://planetpython.org
	http://planet.python.org

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python.announce/topics

    Python411 indexes "podcasts ... to help people learn Python ..."
    Updates appear more-than-weekly:
        http://www.awaretek.com/python/index.html

    The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
        http://www.python.org/pypi/

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
    match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
    subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
        http://www.pythonology.com/success

    The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
    Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
    responsibility for Python's development and maintenance.
        http://www.python.org/psf/
    Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
        http://www.python.org/psf/donations/

    The Summary of Python Tracker Issues is an automatically generated
    report summarizing new bugs, closed ones, and patch submissions. 
        http://search.gmane.org/?author=status%40bugs.python.org&group=gmane.comp.python.devel&sort=date

    Although unmaintained since 2002, the Cetus collection of Python
    hyperlinks retains a few gems.
        http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
    interesting recipes.
	http://code.activestate.com/recipes/langs/python/

    Many Python conferences around the world are in preparation.
    Watch this space for links to them.

    Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available, see:
        http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
    For more, see:
        http://www.syndic8.com/feedlist.php?ShowMatch=python&ShowStatus=all
    The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
    SourceForge reincarnation.
        http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
	http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0042/

    del.icio.us presents an intriguing approach to reference commentary.
    It already aggregates quite a bit of Python intelligence.
        http://del.icio.us/tag/python

    Enjoy the *Python Magazine*.
	http://pymag.phparch.com/

    *Py: the Journal of the Python Language*
        http://www.pyzine.com

    Dr.Dobb's Portal is another source of Python news and articles:
        http://www.ddj.com/TechSearch/searchResults.jhtml?queryText=python
    and Python articles regularly appear at IBM DeveloperWorks:
        http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/search/searchResults.jsp?searchSite=dW&searchScope=dW&encodedQuery=python&rankprofile=8

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://search.gmane.org/?query=python+URL+weekly+news+links&group=gmane.comp.python.general&sort=date
  http://groups.google.com/groups/search?q=Python-URL!+group%3Acomp.lang.python&start=0&scoring=d&
  http://lwn.net/Search/DoSearch?words=python-url&ctype3=yes&cat_25=yes

There is *not* an RSS for "Python-URL!"--at least not yet.  Arguments
for and against are occasionally entertained.


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
E-mail to  should get through.

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning
(approximately), ask  to subscribe.  Mention
"Python-URL!".  Write to the same address to unsubscribe.


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Phaseit, Inc. (http://phaseit.net) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.  Watch this space for upcoming
news about posting archives.


From emile at fenx.com  Sat Aug 15 13:28:00 2009
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 10:28:00 -0700
Subject: Splitting a string into substrings of equal size
In-Reply-To: <4a85ffe2$0$24643$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4a85ffe2$0$24643$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: 

On 8/14/2009 5:22 PM candide said...
> Suppose you need to split a string into substrings of a given size (except
> possibly the last substring). I make the hypothesis the first slice is at the
> end of the string.
> A typical example is provided by formatting a decimal string with thousands
> separator.
> 
> 
> What is the pythonic way to do this ?

I like list comps...

 >>> jj = '1234567890123456789'
 >>> ",".join([jj[ii:ii+3] for ii in range(0,len(jj),3)])
'123,456,789,012,345,678,9'
 >>>

Emile



From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Sat Aug 15 13:33:10 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 19:33:10 +0200
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a Serial
	port?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <200908151933.10803.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Saturday 15 August 2009 16:25:03 Grant Edwards wrote:

>
> Are you using python file operations open/read/write or OS
> file-descriptor operations os.open/os.read/os.write?

The former - that seems to be the source of my trouble.

I have now written a little test that uses serial.Serial and it works a treat.

I am still confused about pyserial and serial - I found serial in my 
distribution library, (on the SuSe machine, not on the 2.5 in Slackware) but 
I had to download pyserial.  I see that you were the the original author.  
Thank you for letting this stuff loose in the wild.

- Hendrik



From lists at cheimes.de  Sat Aug 15 14:05:36 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 20:05:36 +0200
Subject: Python 2.6 still not giving memory back to the OS...
In-Reply-To: <38581c40-b7ed-4dbf-a3af-33e1761ba7b0@r7g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<38581c40-b7ed-4dbf-a3af-33e1761ba7b0@r7g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A86F8F0.5060101@cheimes.de>

Mark Dickinson wrote:
> and got the expected memory usage for my Python process, as
> displayed by top:  memory usage went up to nearly 1Gb after
> each assignment to b, then dropped down to 19 Mb or so after
> each 'del b'.  I get similar results under Python 2.5.

I get the same results on Linux:

Python 2.6.2 (release26-maint, Apr 19 2009, 01:58:18)
[GCC 4.3.3] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import os, psutil
>>> pi = psutil.Process(os.getpid())
>>> [mem/1024.**2 for mem in pi.get_memory_info()]
[4.71875, 28.2578125]
>>> s = 'x' * (10**9)
>>> [mem/1024.**2 for mem in pi.get_memory_info()]
[958.40234375, 981.93359375]
>>> del s
>>> [mem/1024.**2 for mem in pi.get_memory_info()]
[11.62890625, 55.1875]

Christian



From lists at cheimes.de  Sat Aug 15 14:05:36 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 20:05:36 +0200
Subject: Python 2.6 still not giving memory back to the OS...
In-Reply-To: <38581c40-b7ed-4dbf-a3af-33e1761ba7b0@r7g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<38581c40-b7ed-4dbf-a3af-33e1761ba7b0@r7g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A86F8F0.5060101@cheimes.de>

Mark Dickinson wrote:
> and got the expected memory usage for my Python process, as
> displayed by top:  memory usage went up to nearly 1Gb after
> each assignment to b, then dropped down to 19 Mb or so after
> each 'del b'.  I get similar results under Python 2.5.

I get the same results on Linux:

Python 2.6.2 (release26-maint, Apr 19 2009, 01:58:18)
[GCC 4.3.3] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import os, psutil
>>> pi = psutil.Process(os.getpid())
>>> [mem/1024.**2 for mem in pi.get_memory_info()]
[4.71875, 28.2578125]
>>> s = 'x' * (10**9)
>>> [mem/1024.**2 for mem in pi.get_memory_info()]
[958.40234375, 981.93359375]
>>> del s
>>> [mem/1024.**2 for mem in pi.get_memory_info()]
[11.62890625, 55.1875]

Christian


From roy at panix.com  Sat Aug 15 14:17:39 2009
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 14:17:39 -0400
Subject: getting the fractional part of a real?
Message-ID: 

What's the best way to get the fractional part of a real?  The two ways I 
can see are r % 1 and r = int(r), but both seem a bit hokey.  Is there 
something more straight-forward that I'm missing, like fraction(r)?


From lists at cheimes.de  Sat Aug 15 14:40:54 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 20:40:54 +0200
Subject: getting the fractional part of a real?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A870136.70306@cheimes.de>

Roy Smith schrieb:
> What's the best way to get the fractional part of a real?  The two ways I 
> can see are r % 1 and r = int(r), but both seem a bit hokey.  Is there 
> something more straight-forward that I'm missing, like fraction(r)?

>>> import math
>>> math.modf(1.5)
(0.5, 1.0)

Christian


From gregor.lingl at aon.at  Sat Aug 15 14:48:51 2009
From: gregor.lingl at aon.at (Gregor Lingl)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 20:48:51 +0200
Subject: Splitting a string into substrings of equal size
In-Reply-To: <4a85ffe2$0$24643$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4a85ffe2$0$24643$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4A870313.4040702@aon.at>


> What is the pythonic way to do this ?
> 
> 
> For my part, i reach to this rather complicated code:
> 
> 
> # ----------------------
> 
> def comaSep(z,k=3, sep=','):
>     z=z[::-1]
>     x=[z[k*i:k*(i+1)][::-1] for i in range(1+(len(z)-1)/k)][::-1]
>     return sep.join(x)
> 
> # Test
> for z in ["75096042068045", "509", "12024", "7", "2009"]:
>     print z+" --> ", comaSep(z)
> 

Just if you are interested, a recursive solution:

 >>> def comaSep(z,k=3,sep=","):
	return comaSep(z[:-3],k,sep)+sep+z[-3:] if len(z)>3 else z

 >>> comaSep("7")
'7'
 >>> comaSep("2007")
'2,007'
 >>> comaSep("12024")
'12,024'
 >>> comaSep("509")
'509'
 >>> comaSep("75096042068045")
'75,096,042,068,045'
 >>>

Gregor


From gregor.lingl at aon.at  Sat Aug 15 14:49:45 2009
From: gregor.lingl at aon.at (Gregor Lingl)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 20:49:45 +0200
Subject: Splitting a string into substrings of equal size
In-Reply-To: <4a85ffe2$0$24643$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4a85ffe2$0$24643$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4a870358$0$2292$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>


> What is the pythonic way to do this ?
> 
> 
> For my part, i reach to this rather complicated code:
> 
> 
> # ----------------------
> 
> def comaSep(z,k=3, sep=','):
>     z=z[::-1]
>     x=[z[k*i:k*(i+1)][::-1] for i in range(1+(len(z)-1)/k)][::-1]
>     return sep.join(x)
> 
> # Test
> for z in ["75096042068045", "509", "12024", "7", "2009"]:
>     print z+" --> ", comaSep(z)
> 

Just if you are interested, a recursive solution:

 >>> def comaSep(z,k=3,sep=","):
	return comaSep(z[:-3],k,sep)+sep+z[-3:] if len(z)>3 else z

 >>> comaSep("7")
'7'
 >>> comaSep("2007")
'2,007'
 >>> comaSep("12024")
'12,024'
 >>> comaSep("509")
'509'
 >>> comaSep("75096042068045")
'75,096,042,068,045'
 >>>

Gregor


From dickinsm at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 14:50:00 2009
From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 11:50:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: getting the fractional part of a real?
References: 
	
Message-ID: <9e6ce7f2-deba-4538-88f3-2d44ab5ada4b@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 15, 7:40?pm, Christian Heimes  wrote:
> Roy Smith schrieb:
>
> > What's the best way to get the fractional part of a real? ?The two ways I
> > can see are r % 1 and r = int(r), but both seem a bit hokey. ?Is there
> > something more straight-forward that I'm missing, like fraction(r)?
> >>> import math
> >>> math.modf(1.5)
>
> (0.5, 1.0)

What Christian said.  math.fmod(r, 1.0) also works.

Note that r % 1 and r - int(r) aren't the same thing for negative
reals.
What sign do you want the result to have when r is negative?

Mark


From gregor.lingl at aon.at  Sat Aug 15 14:50:03 2009
From: gregor.lingl at aon.at (Gregor Lingl)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 20:50:03 +0200
Subject: Splitting a string into substrings of equal size
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4a85ffe2$0$24643$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	
Message-ID: <4a87036a$0$2292$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>

Emile van Sebille schrieb:
> On 8/14/2009 5:22 PM candide said...
...
>> What is the pythonic way to do this ?
> 
> I like list comps...
> 
>  >>> jj = '1234567890123456789'
>  >>> ",".join([jj[ii:ii+3] for ii in range(0,len(jj),3)])
> '123,456,789,012,345,678,9'
>  >>>
> 
> Emile
> 

Less beautiful but more correct:

 >>> ",".join([jj[max(ii-3,0):ii] for ii in
                              range(len(jj)%3,len(jj)+3,3)])
'1,234,567,890,123,456,789'

Gregor


From gregor.lingl at aon.at  Sat Aug 15 14:55:55 2009
From: gregor.lingl at aon.at (Gregor Lingl)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 20:55:55 +0200
Subject: getting the fractional part of a real?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <4a8704ca$0$2292$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>

Christian Heimes schrieb:
> Roy Smith schrieb:
>> What's the best way to get the fractional part of a real?  The two 
>> ways I can see are r % 1 and r = int(r), but both seem a bit hokey.  
>> Is there something more straight-forward that I'm missing, like 
>> fraction(r)?
> 
>>>> import math
>>>> math.modf(1.5)
> (0.5, 1.0)
> 
> Christian

Or without the need to import something:

 >>> divmod(1.5, 1)
(1.0, 0.5)
 >>>

Gregor


From nagle at animats.com  Sat Aug 15 15:24:26 2009
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 12:24:26 -0700
Subject: A Exhibition Of Tech Geekers Incompetence: Emacs whitespace-mode
In-Reply-To: 
References: <61ef4451-d6b6-493b-b4a0-1822a901ca8d@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <4a870a7b$0$1674$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

fortunatus wrote:
> On Aug 14, 1:01 pm, vippstar  wrote:
>> Why would you fill your website with junk?
> 
> The OP made it clear:
> 
>> Just wanted to express some frustration with whitespace-mode.

    Well, it took until Python 3.0 until Python enforced rules that
ensured that the indentation the user sees is the same indentation the
compiler sees.  We finally have a solution that allows both tabs and
spaces but disallows the situations which are ambiguous.  Until
Python 3.0 is fully deployed, there are situations when you need an insane
level of tab/space visibility.  Blame Python, not EMACS.

				John Nagle


From nagle at animats.com  Sat Aug 15 15:34:15 2009
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 12:34:15 -0700
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
In-Reply-To: 
References: <24980842.post@talk.nabble.com>
	
Message-ID: <4a870cc7$0$1674$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:
> On Saturday 15 August 2009 03:25:45 Dr. Phillip M. Feldman wrote:

> And while you are about it, you may as well teach them that it is much better 
> to do a multiplication than a division.

    Actually, division speed hasn't been much of an issue in years.  Arithmetic
has been faster than memory access since CPUs went superscalar.  In CPython,
with all the interpreter overhead, you'll probably never notice the difference.

    I'd thought "xrange" had already been obsoleted, and hadn't realized the
2.3 - 2.6 versions of CPython were still doing "range" the hard way, not
as a generator.

					John Nagle


From alan.isaac at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 15:49:35 2009
From: alan.isaac at gmail.com (Alan G Isaac)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 19:49:35 GMT
Subject: random.gauss vs. random.normalvariate
Message-ID: 

Quoting http://docs.python.org/3.1/library/random.html#random.gauss:
    Gaussian distribution. mu is the mean, and sigma is the
    standard deviation. This is slightly faster than the
    normalvariate() function defined below.

So since both are offered and gauss is faster, I assume it
must have some offsetting disadvantage.  What is it?

Thank you,
Alan Isaac



From roy at panix.com  Sat Aug 15 16:01:25 2009
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 16:01:25 -0400
Subject: getting the fractional part of a real?
References: 
	
	<4a8704ca$0$2292$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>
Message-ID: 

In article <4a8704ca$0$2292$91cee783 at newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>,
 Gregor Lingl  wrote:

> Christian Heimes schrieb:
> > Roy Smith schrieb:
> >> What's the best way to get the fractional part of a real?  The two 
> >> ways I can see are r % 1 and r = int(r), but both seem a bit hokey.  
> >> Is there something more straight-forward that I'm missing, like 
> >> fraction(r)?
> > 
> >>>> import math
> >>>> math.modf(1.5)
> > (0.5, 1.0)
> > 
> > Christian
> 
> Or without the need to import something:
> 
>  >>> divmod(1.5, 1)
> (1.0, 0.5)
>  >>>
> 
> Gregor

Thanks.  I knew I had to be missing something obvious.

Regarding Mark Dickinson's question about what I want for negative reals, 
for the application I have in mind, r is guaranteed to be positive.


From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 16:01:43 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 13:01:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in  
	string literals]
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> 
	
	
	 
	
Message-ID: <5fcd454d-14b4-452b-91d3-938e9fa0bd18@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 14, 10:25?pm, Dave Angel  wrote:

> Benjamin Kaplan wrote:

> > On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Douglas Alan wrote:

> >> P.S. Overloading "left shift" to mean "output" does indeed seem a bit
> >> sketchy, but in 15 years of C++ programming, I've never seen it cause
> >> any confusion or bugs.

> > The only reason it hasn't is because people use it in "Hello World". I bet
> > some newbie C++ programmers get confused the first time they see << used to
> > shift.

People typically get confused by a *lot* of things when they learn a
new language. I think the better metric is how people fare with a
language feature once they've grown accustomed to the language, and
how long it takes them to acquire this familiarity.

> Actually, I've seen it cause confusion, because of operator precedence. ?
> The logical shift operators have a fairly high level priority, so
> sometimes you need parentheses that aren't obvious. ?Fortunately, most
> of those cases make compile errors.

I've been programming in C++ so long that for me, if there's any
confusion, it's the other way around. I see "<<" or ">>" and I think I/
O. I don't immediately think shifting. Fortunately, shifting is a
pretty rare operation to actually use, which is perhaps why C++
reclaimed it for I/O.

On the other hand, you are right that the precedence of "<<" is messed
up for I/O. I've never seen a real-world case where this causes a bug
in C++ code, because the static type-checker always seems to catch the
error. In a dynamically typed language, this would be a much more
serious problem.

|>ouglas

P.S. I find it strange, however, that anyone who is not okay with
"abusing" operator overloading in this manner, wouldn't also take
umbrage at Python's overloading of "+" to work with strings and lists,
etc. Numerical addition and sequence concatenation have entirely
different semantics.


From bouncyinc at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 16:14:17 2009
From: bouncyinc at gmail.com (John Haggerty)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 14:14:17 -0600
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in 
	string literals]
In-Reply-To: <02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

I guess the problem is---does it actually matter?

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 10:11 AM, Steven D'Aprano <
steve at remove-this-cybersource.com.au> wrote:

> On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 07:07:31 -0700, Aahz wrote:
>
> > "I saw `cout' being shifted "Hello world" times to the left and stopped
> > right there."  --Steve Gonedes
>
> Assuming that's something real, and not invented for humour, I presume
> that's describing something possible in C++. Am I correct? What the hell
> would it actually do???
>
>
> --
> Steven
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From wgwinder at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 16:17:02 2009
From: wgwinder at gmail.com (wgw)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 13:17:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: PyQt4.__file__ gives PyQt4/__init__.py as value
Message-ID: <0b3b6163-3fb3-4b1b-9605-bf899f65b9e9@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

I don't understand why the __file__ value in my installation of PyQt
would not give a proper, full path.

I'm guessing that I did not install pyqt properly (I'm on Ubuntu
Hardy, trying to install QT4.5), but before redoing the install, I
want to see if there is a quicker fix.

Also, though PyQt4/ is in the site-packages directory, and loads
properly into the interactive environment. Yolk does not list it. ???

Something strange here!

Any suggestions?


From metolone+gmane at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 16:22:39 2009
From: metolone+gmane at gmail.com (Mark Tolonen)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 13:22:39 -0700
Subject: Splitting a string into substrings of equal size
References: <4a85ffe2$0$24643$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<4a87036a$0$2292$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>
Message-ID: 


"Gregor Lingl"  wrote in message 
news:4a87036a$0$2292$91cee783 at newsreader02.highway.telekom.at...
> Emile van Sebille schrieb:
>> On 8/14/2009 5:22 PM candide said...
> ...
>>> What is the pythonic way to do this ?
>>
>> I like list comps...
>>
>>  >>> jj = '1234567890123456789'
>>  >>> ",".join([jj[ii:ii+3] for ii in range(0,len(jj),3)])
>> '123,456,789,012,345,678,9'
>>  >>>
>>
>> Emile
>>
>
> Less beautiful but more correct:
>
> >>> ",".join([jj[max(ii-3,0):ii] for ii in
>                              range(len(jj)%3,len(jj)+3,3)])
> '1,234,567,890,123,456,789'
>
> Gregor

Is it?

>>> jj = '234567890123456789'
>>> ",".join([jj[max(ii-3,0):ii] for ii in range(len(jj)%3,len(jj)+3,3)])
',234,567,890,123,456,789'

At least one other solution in this thread had the same problem.

-Mark




From bouncyinc at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 16:23:26 2009
From: bouncyinc at gmail.com (John Haggerty)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 14:23:26 -0600
Subject: redoing libgmail interface to "smtplib" blah?
Message-ID: 

The following program is theoretically supposed to use a supported library.
Issues have come up where the library is not working and now another
interface is being requierd to be used.

At this point I'm looking at just changing the send commands but don't feel
confident in doing so. Wondering specifically what would have to be changed
to what.

Thanks for your time :)

#!/usr/bin/env python
#
# ogss -- SMS Shell through Gmail and libgmail
#
# Version 0.2
#
# Author: btoews at mastahyeti.com
#
# License: GPL 2.0
#
# NOTE:
#   You should ensure you are permitted to use this script before using it
#   to access Google's Gmail servers.
#
def main(argv):
    print "Starting ogss"

    logfile = os.path.join(os.environ["HOME"],"ogss.log")
    print "Logfile at:"+logfile
    execd = []
    #Checking to see if the logfile already exists
    #if it doesn't we create it.
    if not os.path.exists(logfile):
        print "Creating log file"
        try:
            open(logfile,"w").close()
        except:
            print "Failed to open create log file. Check permissions"
            exit()
    #Opening log file for reading and parseing its contents into a list
    #Must do this to ensure that we dont execute old commands
    print "Opening log file for reading"
    try:
        r = open(logfile,"r")
        for line in r:
            eid = line.split("~")
            if len(eid)>=2:
                execd.append(int(eid[0]))
        r.close()
    except:
        print "Failed to open or read log file. Check permissions"
        exit()

    clist = [["3 River Wireless","@sms.3rivers.net"],["7-11 Speakout","@
cingularme.com"],["Airtel (Karnataka","India)Alaska Communications
Systems"],["Alltel Wireless","@message.alltel.com"],["AT&T Wireless","@
txt.att.net"],["Bell Mobility (Canada)","@txt.bell.ca"],["Boost Mobile","@
myboostmobile.com"],["Cellular One
(Dobson)","@mobile.celloneusa.com"],["Cingular
(Postpaid)","@cingularme.com"],["Centennial
Wireless","@cwemail.com"],["Cingular
(GoPhone prepaid)","@cingularme.com"],["Claro (Nicaragua)","@
ideasclaro-ca.com"],["Comcel","@comcel.com.co"],["Cricket","@
sms.mycricket.com"],["CTI","@sms.ctimovil.com.ar"],["Emtel (Mauritius)","@
emtelworld.net"],["Fido (Canada)","@fido.ca"],["General Communications
Inc.","@msg.gci.net"],["Globalstar","@msg.globalstarusa.com"],["Helio","@
myhelio.com"],["Illinois Valley Cellular","@ivctext.com"],["i wireless",".
iws at iwspcs.net"],["Meteor (Ireland)","@sms.mymeteor.ie"],["Mero Mobile
(Nepal)","@sms.spicenepal.com"],["MetroPCS","@mymetropcs.com"],["Movicom","@
movimensaje.com.ar"],["Mobitel (Sri Lanka)","@sms.mobitel.lk"],["Movistar
(Colombia)","@movistar.com.co"],["MTN (South Africa)","@sms.co.za"],["MTS
(Canada)","@text.mtsmobility.com"],["Nextel
(Argentina)","@nextel.net.ar"],["Orange
(Poland)","@orange.pl"],["Personal (Argentina)","@personal-net.com.ar"],["Plus
GSM (Poland)","@text.plusgsm.pl"],["President\s Choice (Canada)","@
txt.bell.ca"],["Qwest","@qwestmp.com"],["Rogers
(Canada)","@pcs.rogers.com"],["Sasktel
(Canada)","@sms.sasktel.com"],["Setar Mobile email (Aruba)","@mas.aw"],["Solo
Mobile","@txt.bell.ca"],["Sprint (PCS)","@messaging.sprintpcs.com"],["Sprint
(Nextel)","@page.nextel.com"],["Suncom","@tms.suncom.com"],["T-Mobile","@
tmomail.net"],["T-Mobile (Austria)","@sms.t-mobile.at"],["Telus Mobility
(Canada)","@msg.telus.com"],["Thumb Cellular","@sms.thumbcellular.com"],["Tigo
(Formerly Ola)","@sms.tigo.com.co"],["Unicel","@utext.com"],["US
Cellular","@email.uscc.net"],["Verizon","@vtext.com"],["Virgin Mobile
(Canada)","@vmobile.ca"],["Virgin Mobile (USA)","@vmobl.com"],["YCC","@
sms.ycc.ru"],["Orange (UK)","@orange.net"],["Cincinnati Bell Wireless","@
gocbw.com"],["T-Mobile Germany","@t-mobile-sms.de"],["Vodafone Germany","@
vodafone-sms.de"],["E-Plus","@smsmail.eplus.de"]]

    print "Parsing user input"
    if len(argv)<4:
        if len(argv) == 2:
            if argv[1] == "-c":
                counter = 0
                for car in clist:
                    print str(counter) + "--" + car[0]
                    counter += 1
                exit()
        else:
            print
"------Useage---------------------------------------------------------------\n\r------Start
Service --- ogss.py USERNAME PASSWORD CELL-NUMBER
CARRIER-NUMBER\n\r------List carriers --- ogss.py -c"
            print "------Useage from
phone----------------------------------------------------\n\r------Ogss
COMMAND"
            exit()
    username   = argv[1]
    password   = argv[2]
    number     = argv[3]
    carrier     = clist[int(argv[4])]
    cell_email = number+carrier[1]

    print "Connecting to Gmail"
    account = libgmail.GmailAccount(username,password)
    print "Logging into Gmail"
    account.login()

    print "Opening log file for writing"
    try:
        w = open(logfile,"a")
    except:
        print "Failed to open log file. Check permissions."
        exit()

    #If the logfile is empty (if this is the first use) we want to
    #send instructions to the users cell phone.
    #if len(execd) < 1:
    #    instructions = libgmail.GmailComposedMessage(cell_email,"OGSS
Instructions","To use OGSS reply to this message with an SMS starting with
\"Ogss\". Whatever follows \"Ogss\" will be executed on your computer")
    #    account.sendMessage(instructions)
    print "Listening for commands"
    while True:
        try:
            searchResult =
account.getMessagesByQuery("from:"+cell_email,True)
            maxid = 0
            if len(searchResult)>0:
                #Here we search through the inbox to find the most recent
message sent
                #from the specified phone number
                for thread in searchResult:
                    for message in thread:
                        if cell_email == message.sender:
                            if int(message.id,16)>maxid:
                                maxid = int(message.id,16)
                                maxmessage = message
                #Removeing all the garbage from the message to find the
command
                #TODO find a neater way of parsing message
                ogsssplit = maxmessage.source.split("Ogss")
                spansplit = ogsssplit[len(ogsssplit)-1].split("")
                command = spansplit[0]
                command = command.split()
                #If the id of the most recent message does not already exist
in
                #the log file, run the command
                if execd.count(int(maxmessage.id,16))==0:
                    print "Processing Command"
                    cresult = Popen(command,stdout=PIPE)
                    body = cresult.stdout.read()
                    tosend =
libgmail.GmailComposedMessage(cell_email,"STDOUT","\n"+body)
                    print "Seding back results"
                    account.sendMessage(tosend)
                    print "Logging..."
                    execd.append(int(maxmessage.id,16))
                    towrite = str(int(maxmessage.id,16))+"~ "
                    for arg in command:
                        towrite += arg+" "
                    w.write(towrite+"\n")
                    print "Listening for commands"
            #TODO add ability to choose sleep time
            time.sleep(2)
        except (KeyboardInterrupt, SystemExit):
            w.close()
            print "Exiting..."
            exit()
if __name__ == "__main__":
    import os,time,sys,libgmail
    from subprocess import Popen,PIPE
    main(sys.argv)
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From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 16:26:06 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 13:26:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: random.gauss vs. random.normalvariate
References: 
Message-ID: <89df98da-cdaf-4422-9bc0-c0b46ebefcda@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 15, 12:49?pm, Alan G Isaac  wrote:
> Quotinghttp://docs.python.org/3.1/library/random.html#random.gauss:
> ? ? Gaussian distribution. mu is the mean, and sigma is the
> ? ? standard deviation. This is slightly faster than the
> ? ? normalvariate() function defined below.
>
> So since both are offered and gauss is faster, I assume it
> must have some offsetting disadvantage. ?What is it?

random.gauss is not thread safe.

I'm kind of surprised the html docs don't mention this; the docstring
does.


Carl Banks


From bouncyinc at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 16:34:36 2009
From: bouncyinc at gmail.com (John Haggerty)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 14:34:36 -0600
Subject: random.gauss vs. random.normalvariate
In-Reply-To: <89df98da-cdaf-4422-9bc0-c0b46ebefcda@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<89df98da-cdaf-4422-9bc0-c0b46ebefcda@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

What does the term "thread safe" mean exactly. I never had to program with
"threads" before

On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 2:26 PM, Carl Banks wrote:

> On Aug 15, 12:49 pm, Alan G Isaac  wrote:
> > Quotinghttp://docs.python.org/3.1/library/random.html#random.gauss:
> >     Gaussian distribution. mu is the mean, and sigma is the
> >     standard deviation. This is slightly faster than the
> >     normalvariate() function defined below.
> >
> > So since both are offered and gauss is faster, I assume it
> > must have some offsetting disadvantage.  What is it?
>
> random.gauss is not thread safe.
>
> I'm kind of surprised the html docs don't mention this; the docstring
> does.
>
>
> Carl Banks
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From stef.mientki at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 16:50:39 2009
From: stef.mientki at gmail.com (Stef Mientki)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 22:50:39 +0200
Subject: Why is "unpacking" of tuples only allowed when there's 1 tupple ?
Message-ID: <4A871F9F.3040904@gmail.com>

hello,

I'm not sure if  "unpacking" is the right term
but if I have a tuple of 2 arrays,
I can either call a function with:

          Space_State = tf2ss ( filt[0], filt[1] )

or with
          Space_State = tf2ss ( *filt )

Now if I've to call a function with more parameters,
why can't I use (Polynome is again a tuple of 2 arrays) :
(which already gives an error in the IDE)

          Respons = signal.lfilter ( *Polynome, Signal )

and thus I've to use:

          Respons = signal.lfilter ( Polynome[0], Polynome[1], Signal )


I use Python 2.5.2

thanks,
Stef Mientki


From alan.isaac at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 16:54:37 2009
From: alan.isaac at gmail.com (Alan G Isaac)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 20:54:37 GMT
Subject: random.gauss vs. random.normalvariate
In-Reply-To: <89df98da-cdaf-4422-9bc0-c0b46ebefcda@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<89df98da-cdaf-4422-9bc0-c0b46ebefcda@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

> On Aug 15, 12:49 pm, Alan G Isaac  wrote:
>> Quotinghttp://docs.python.org/3.1/library/random.html#random.gauss:
>>     Gaussian distribution. mu is the mean, and sigma is the
>>     standard deviation. This is slightly faster than the
>>     normalvariate() function defined below.
>>
>> So since both are offered and gauss is faster, I assume it
>> must have some offsetting disadvantage.  What is it?



On 8/15/2009 4:26 PM Carl Banks apparently wrote:
> random.gauss is not thread safe.
> 
> I'm kind of surprised the html docs don't mention this; the docstring
> does.



Thank you,
Alan Isaac


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Sat Aug 15 17:11:43 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 23:11:43 +0200
Subject: Why is "unpacking" of tuples only allowed when there's 1 tupple ?
In-Reply-To: <4A871F9F.3040904@gmail.com>
References: <4A871F9F.3040904@gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

Dnia 15-08-2009 o 22:50:39 Stef Mientki   
napisa?(a):

> hello,
>
> I'm not sure if  "unpacking" is the right term
> but if I have a tuple of 2 arrays,
> I can either call a function with:
>
>           Space_State = tf2ss ( filt[0], filt[1] )
>
> or with
>           Space_State = tf2ss ( *filt )
>
> Now if I've to call a function with more parameters,
> why can't I use (Polynome is again a tuple of 2 arrays) :
> (which already gives an error in the IDE)
>
>           Respons = signal.lfilter ( *Polynome, Signal )
>
> and thus I've to use:
>
>           Respons = signal.lfilter ( Polynome[0], Polynome[1], Signal )

The content of that tuple or list (filt/Polynome here) doesn't matter.
Simply, when calling function, you can't put positional (non-keyword)
argument after *something.

  >>> def nic(*args, **kwargs): pass
  ...
  >>> nic(*[1,2,3], 4)
    File "", line 1
  SyntaxError: only named arguments may follow *expression


That'd be ok:

  Respons = signal.lfilter(*Polynome, sig=Signal)  # if this method can
                                                   # receive argument
                                                   # 'sig' after more
                                                   # than len(Polynome)
                                                   # of arguments

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Aug 15 17:18:24 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 22:18:24 +0100
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
In-Reply-To: <4a870cc7$0$1674$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
References: <24980842.post@talk.nabble.com>	
	<4a870cc7$0$1674$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <4A872620.1070808@mrabarnett.plus.com>

John Nagle wrote:
> Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:
>> On Saturday 15 August 2009 03:25:45 Dr. Phillip M. Feldman wrote:
> 
>> And while you are about it, you may as well teach them that it is much 
>> better to do a multiplication than a division.
> 
>    Actually, division speed hasn't been much of an issue in years.  
> Arithmetic
> has been faster than memory access since CPUs went superscalar.  In 
> CPython,
> with all the interpreter overhead, you'll probably never notice the 
> difference.
> 
>    I'd thought "xrange" had already been obsoleted, and hadn't realized the
> 2.3 - 2.6 versions of CPython were still doing "range" the hard way, not
> as a generator.
> 
It would've broken some existing code, hence it was left until Python 3.


From lists at cheimes.de  Sat Aug 15 17:19:42 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 23:19:42 +0200
Subject: PyQt4.__file__ gives PyQt4/__init__.py as value
In-Reply-To: <0b3b6163-3fb3-4b1b-9605-bf899f65b9e9@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
References: <0b3b6163-3fb3-4b1b-9605-bf899f65b9e9@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A87266E.6080609@cheimes.de>

wgw wrote:
> I don't understand why the __file__ value in my installation of PyQt
> would not give a proper, full path.
> 
> I'm guessing that I did not install pyqt properly (I'm on Ubuntu
> Hardy, trying to install QT4.5), but before redoing the install, I
> want to see if there is a quicker fix.

Some versions of Debian and Ubuntu used to compile Python files with a 
relative path. Try this:

python2.5 /usr/lib/python2.5/compileall.py -f /usr/lib/python2.5
python2.5 -o /usr/lib/python2.5/compileall.py -f /usr/lib/python2.5

Christian


From lists at cheimes.de  Sat Aug 15 17:19:42 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 23:19:42 +0200
Subject: PyQt4.__file__ gives PyQt4/__init__.py as value
In-Reply-To: <0b3b6163-3fb3-4b1b-9605-bf899f65b9e9@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
References: <0b3b6163-3fb3-4b1b-9605-bf899f65b9e9@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A87266E.6080609@cheimes.de>

wgw wrote:
> I don't understand why the __file__ value in my installation of PyQt
> would not give a proper, full path.
> 
> I'm guessing that I did not install pyqt properly (I'm on Ubuntu
> Hardy, trying to install QT4.5), but before redoing the install, I
> want to see if there is a quicker fix.

Some versions of Debian and Ubuntu used to compile Python files with a 
relative path. Try this:

python2.5 /usr/lib/python2.5/compileall.py -f /usr/lib/python2.5
python2.5 -o /usr/lib/python2.5/compileall.py -f /usr/lib/python2.5

Christian



From stef.mientki at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 17:19:53 2009
From: stef.mientki at gmail.com (Stef Mientki)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 23:19:53 +0200
Subject: Why is "unpacking" of tuples only allowed when there's 1 tupple ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4A871F9F.3040904@gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <4A872679.4060300@gmail.com>

thanks Jan,
for the clear explanation.
cheers,
Stef

Jan Kaliszewski wrote:
> Dnia 15-08-2009 o 22:50:39 Stef Mientki  
> napisa?(a):
>
>> hello,
>>
>> I'm not sure if  "unpacking" is the right term
>> but if I have a tuple of 2 arrays,
>> I can either call a function with:
>>
>>           Space_State = tf2ss ( filt[0], filt[1] )
>>
>> or with
>>           Space_State = tf2ss ( *filt )
>>
>> Now if I've to call a function with more parameters,
>> why can't I use (Polynome is again a tuple of 2 arrays) :
>> (which already gives an error in the IDE)
>>
>>           Respons = signal.lfilter ( *Polynome, Signal )
>>
>> and thus I've to use:
>>
>>           Respons = signal.lfilter ( Polynome[0], Polynome[1], Signal )
>
> The content of that tuple or list (filt/Polynome here) doesn't matter.
> Simply, when calling function, you can't put positional (non-keyword)
> argument after *something.
>
>  >>> def nic(*args, **kwargs): pass
>  ...
>  >>> nic(*[1,2,3], 4)
>    File "", line 1
>  SyntaxError: only named arguments may follow *expression
>
>
> That'd be ok:
>
>  Respons = signal.lfilter(*Polynome, sig=Signal)  # if this method can
>                                                   # receive argument
>                                                   # 'sig' after more
>                                                   # than len(Polynome)
>                                                   # of arguments
>



From jasevv at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 17:32:59 2009
From: jasevv at gmail.com (Jaseem)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 14:32:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python or ActionScript 3.0
Message-ID: <0e14ae96-e9f5-41ff-8c2d-72c4ef624345@18g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

Is python similar to actionscript 3.0
Which is better to create a rich gui internet application?
Is it AS 3.0 with flex or python with its GUI libs?

Is python in demand?
Heard that python is similar to lisp. But both python and AS 3.0 is
almost identical. Which is more similar to lisp are powerful?

Thank You.


From rylesny at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 17:54:27 2009
From: rylesny at gmail.com (ryles)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 14:54:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Splitting a string into substrings of equal size
References: <4a85ffe2$0$24643$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <064c16a8-8a5a-4764-976f-1ee5a46d82bb@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 14, 8:22?pm, candide  wrote:
> Suppose you need to split a string into substrings of a given size (except
> possibly the last substring). I make the hypothesis the first slice is at the
> end of the string.
> A typical example is provided by formatting a decimal string with thousands
> separator.
>
> What is the pythonic way to do this ?
>
> For my part, i reach to this rather complicated code:
>
> # ----------------------
>
> def comaSep(z,k=3, sep=','):
> ? ? z=z[::-1]
> ? ? x=[z[k*i:k*(i+1)][::-1] for i in range(1+(len(z)-1)/k)][::-1]
> ? ? return sep.join(x)
>
> # Test
> for z in ["75096042068045", "509", "12024", "7", "2009"]:
> ? ? print z+" --> ", comaSep(z)
>
> # ----------------------
>
> outputting :
>
> 75096042068045 --> ?75,096,042,068,045
> 509 --> ?509
> 12024 --> ?12,024
> 7 --> ?7
> 2009 --> ?2,009
>
> Thanks

py> s='1234567'
py> ','.join(_[::-1] for _ in re.findall('.{1,3}',s[::-1])[::-1])
'1,234,567'
py> # j/k ;)


From wgwinder at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 17:58:48 2009
From: wgwinder at gmail.com (wgw)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 14:58:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: PyQt4.__file__ gives PyQt4/__init__.py as value
References: <0b3b6163-3fb3-4b1b-9605-bf899f65b9e9@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <2d6a2d94-c1fb-4cd4-a21b-5fd8cf8ee484@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 15, 2:19?pm, Christian Heimes  wrote:
> wgw wrote:
> > I don't understand why the __file__ value in my installation of PyQt
> > would not give a proper, full path.
>
> > I'm guessing that I did not install pyqt properly (I'm on Ubuntu
> > Hardy, trying to install QT4.5), but before redoing the install, I
> > want to see if there is a quicker fix.
>
> Some versions of Debian and Ubuntu used to compile Python files with a
> relative path. Try this:
>
> python2.5 /usr/lib/python2.5/compileall.py -f /usr/lib/python2.5
> python2.5 -o /usr/lib/python2.5/compileall.py -f /usr/lib/python2.5
>
> Christian

python2.5 /usr/lib/python2.5/compileall.py -f /usr/lib/python2.5

didn't change anything, and there is no -o option (-O exists, but
would that be useful?)

thanks!


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Aug 15 18:06:22 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 23:06:22 +0100
Subject: Splitting a string into substrings of equal size
In-Reply-To: <064c16a8-8a5a-4764-976f-1ee5a46d82bb@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
References: <4a85ffe2$0$24643$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<064c16a8-8a5a-4764-976f-1ee5a46d82bb@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A87315E.7040603@mrabarnett.plus.com>

ryles wrote:
> On Aug 14, 8:22 pm, candide  wrote:
>> Suppose you need to split a string into substrings of a given size (except
>> possibly the last substring). I make the hypothesis the first slice is at the
>> end of the string.
>> A typical example is provided by formatting a decimal string with thousands
>> separator.
>>
>> What is the pythonic way to do this ?
>>
>> For my part, i reach to this rather complicated code:
>>
>> # ----------------------
>>
>> def comaSep(z,k=3, sep=','):
>>     z=z[::-1]
>>     x=[z[k*i:k*(i+1)][::-1] for i in range(1+(len(z)-1)/k)][::-1]
>>     return sep.join(x)
>>
>> # Test
>> for z in ["75096042068045", "509", "12024", "7", "2009"]:
>>     print z+" --> ", comaSep(z)
>>
>> # ----------------------
>>
>> outputting :
>>
>> 75096042068045 -->  75,096,042,068,045
>> 509 -->  509
>> 12024 -->  12,024
>> 7 -->  7
>> 2009 -->  2,009
>>
>> Thanks
> 
> py> s='1234567'
> py> ','.join(_[::-1] for _ in re.findall('.{1,3}',s[::-1])[::-1])
> '1,234,567'
> py> # j/k ;)

If you're going to use re, then:

 >>> for z in ["75096042068045", "509", "12024", "7", "2009"]:
	print re.sub(r"(?<=.)(?=(?:...)+$)", ",", z)

	
75,096,042,068,045
509
12,024
7
2,009


From Brian.Mingus at colorado.edu  Sat Aug 15 18:11:08 2009
From: Brian.Mingus at colorado.edu (Brian)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 16:11:08 -0600
Subject: Splitting a string into substrings of equal size
In-Reply-To: <4A87315E.7040603@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <4a85ffe2$0$24643$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<064c16a8-8a5a-4764-976f-1ee5a46d82bb@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<4A87315E.7040603@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <9839a05c0908151511w38fa4d7eu9926024e1472923f@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 4:06 PM, MRAB  wrote:

> ryles wrote:
>
>> On Aug 14, 8:22 pm, candide  wrote:
>>
>>> Suppose you need to split a string into substrings of a given size
>>> (except
>>> possibly the last substring). I make the hypothesis the first slice is at
>>> the
>>> end of the string.
>>> A typical example is provided by formatting a decimal string with
>>> thousands
>>> separator.
>>>
>>> What is the pythonic way to do this ?
>>>
>>> For my part, i reach to this rather complicated code:
>>>
>>> # ----------------------
>>>
>>> def comaSep(z,k=3, sep=','):
>>>    z=z[::-1]
>>>    x=[z[k*i:k*(i+1)][::-1] for i in range(1+(len(z)-1)/k)][::-1]
>>>    return sep.join(x)
>>>
>>> # Test
>>> for z in ["75096042068045", "509", "12024", "7", "2009"]:
>>>    print z+" --> ", comaSep(z)
>>>
>>> # ----------------------
>>>
>>> outputting :
>>>
>>> 75096042068045 -->  75,096,042,068,045
>>> 509 -->  509
>>> 12024 -->  12,024
>>> 7 -->  7
>>> 2009 -->  2,009
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>
>> py> s='1234567'
>> py> ','.join(_[::-1] for _ in re.findall('.{1,3}',s[::-1])[::-1])
>> '1,234,567'
>> py> # j/k ;)
>>
>
> If you're going to use re, then:
>
> >>> for z in ["75096042068045", "509", "12024", "7", "2009"]:
>        print re.sub(r"(?<=.)(?=(?:...)+$)", ",", z)
>
>
> 75,096,042,068,045
> 509
> 12,024
> 7
> 2,009
>

Can you please break down this regex?
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From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Aug 15 18:28:09 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 23:28:09 +0100
Subject: Splitting a string into substrings of equal size
In-Reply-To: <9839a05c0908151511w38fa4d7eu9926024e1472923f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4a85ffe2$0$24643$426a34cc@news.free.fr>	<064c16a8-8a5a-4764-976f-1ee5a46d82bb@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>	<4A87315E.7040603@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<9839a05c0908151511w38fa4d7eu9926024e1472923f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A873679.9010902@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Brian wrote:
> 
> 
> On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 4:06 PM, MRAB  > wrote:
> 
>     ryles wrote:
> 
>         On Aug 14, 8:22 pm, candide  wrote:
> 
>             Suppose you need to split a string into substrings of a
>             given size (except
>             possibly the last substring). I make the hypothesis the
>             first slice is at the
>             end of the string.
>             A typical example is provided by formatting a decimal string
>             with thousands
>             separator.
> 
>             What is the pythonic way to do this ?
> 
>             For my part, i reach to this rather complicated code:
> 
>             # ----------------------
> 
>             def comaSep(z,k=3, sep=','):
>                z=z[::-1]
>                x=[z[k*i:k*(i+1)][::-1] for i in range(1+(len(z)-1)/k)][::-1]
>                return sep.join(x)
> 
>             # Test
>             for z in ["75096042068045", "509", "12024", "7", "2009"]:
>                print z+" --> ", comaSep(z)
> 
>             # ----------------------
> 
>             outputting :
> 
>             75096042068045 -->  75,096,042,068,045
>             509 -->  509
>             12024 -->  12,024
>             7 -->  7
>             2009 -->  2,009
> 
>             Thanks
> 
> 
>         py> s='1234567'
>         py> ','.join(_[::-1] for _ in re.findall('.{1,3}',s[::-1])[::-1])
>         '1,234,567'
>         py> # j/k ;)
> 
> 
>     If you're going to use re, then:
> 
> 
>      >>> for z in ["75096042068045", "509", "12024", "7", "2009"]:
>            print re.sub(r"(?<=.)(?=(?:...)+$)", ",", z)
> 
> 
>            
>     75,096,042,068,045
>     509
>     12,024
>     7
>     2,009
> 
> 
> Can you please break down this regex?
> 
The call replaces a zero-width match with a comma, ie inserts a comma,
if certain conditions are met:

"(?<=.)"
     Look behind for 1 character. There must be at least one previous
character. This ensures that a comma is never inserted at the start of
the string. I could also have used "(?
	<064c16a8-8a5a-4764-976f-1ee5a46d82bb@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<4A87315E.7040603@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<9839a05c0908151511w38fa4d7eu9926024e1472923f@mail.gmail.com> 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 15, 6:28?pm, MRAB  wrote:

> > ? ? ?>>> for z in ["75096042068045", "509", "12024", "7", "2009"]:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ?print re.sub(r"(?<=.)(?=(?:...)+$)", ",", z)
>
> > ? ? 75,096,042,068,045
> > ? ? 509
> > ? ? 12,024
> > ? ? 7
> > ? ? 2,009
>
> The call replaces a zero-width match with a comma, ie inserts a comma,
> if certain conditions are met:
>
> "(?<=.)"
> ? ? ?Look behind for 1 character. There must be at least one previous
> character. This ensures that a comma is never inserted at the start of
> the string. I could also have used "(? whether the first character is a "-". That's left as an exercise for the
> reader. :-)
>
> "(?=(?:...)+$)"
> ? ? ?Look ahead for a multiple of 3 characters, followed by the end of
> the string.

Wow, well done. An exceptional recipe from Python's unofficial regex
guru. And thanks for sharing the explanation.


From paul.mike25 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 20:02:36 2009
From: paul.mike25 at gmail.com (Mike Paul)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 17:02:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python- javascript
Message-ID: <985d635f-5784-40a7-a2bb-b76900c200d9@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

I'm trying to scrap a dynamic page with lot of javascript in it.
Inorder to get all the data from the page i need to access the
javascript. But i've no idea how to do it.

Say I'm scraping some site htttp://www.xyz.com/xyz

request=urllib2.Request("htttp://www.xyz.com/xyz")
response=urllib2.urlopen(request)
data=response.read()


So i get all the data on the initial page. Now i need to access the
javascript on this page to get additional details. I've heard someone
telling me to use spidermonkey. But no idea  on how to send javscript
as request and get the response. How hsuld i be sending the javascript
request as ? how can it be sent?

This is the script I need to access.

Click this to view more items

Can anyone tell me how can i do it very clearly. I've been breaking my
head into this for the past few days with no progress.


Thanks


From paul.mike25 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 20:09:15 2009
From: paul.mike25 at gmail.com (Mike Paul)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 19:09:15 -0500
Subject: Python - scraping - javascript
Message-ID: <26ee78500908151709v6a159a95wde98b88f7d2e44bf@mail.gmail.com>

I'm trying to scrap a dynamic page with lot of javascript in it. Inorder to
get all the data from the page i need to access the javascript. But i've no
idea how to do it.

Say I'm scraping some site htttp://www.xyz.com/xyz

request=urllib2.Request("htttp://www.xyz.com/xyz")
response=urllib2.urlopen(request)
data=response.read()


So i get all the data on the initial page. Now i need to access the
javascript on this page to get additional details. I've heard someone
telling me to use spidermonkey. But no idea on how to send javscript as
request and get the response. How hsuld i be sending the javascript request
as ? how can it be sent?

This is the script I need to access.

Click this to view more items

Can anyone tell me how can i do it very clearly. I've been breaking my head
into this for the past few days with no progress.


Thanks
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From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 20:57:28 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 17:57:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<3611ca55-79a6-4336-9041-07d0893789f7@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
	<0447e8a2-508d-45b2-8d15-da0cc2a56b5f@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	
	<494d80f1-0b47-468c-bdd9-7a087f6d915c@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	
	<7877b03a-09da-4836-804c-502b6f78003c@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<02933e60$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<2cdc3f88-1952-4ca2-9754-5b7583fb5fd8@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<0295958b$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4e15b3a9-b3ec-41f0-bb35-15ea5da7c9db@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 14, 1:55?pm, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:

> Douglas, you and I clearly have a difference of opinion on
> this. Neither of us have provided even the tiniest amount
> of objective, replicable, reliable data on the
> error-proneness of the C++ approach versus that of
> Python. The supposed superiority of the C++ approach is
> entirely subjective and based on personal opinion instead
> of quantitative facts.

Alas, this is true for nearly any engineering methodology or
philosophy, which is why, I suppose, Perl, for instance,
still has its proponents. It's virtually impossible to prove
any thesis, and these things only get decided by endless
debate that rages across decades.

> I prefer languages that permit anything that isn't
> explicitly forbidden, so I'm happy that Python treats
> non-special escape sequences as valid,

I don't really understand what you mean by this. If Python
were to declare that "unrecognized escape sequences" were
forbidden, then they would be "explicitly forbidden". Would
you then be happy?

If not, why are you not upset that Python won't let me do

   [3, 4, 5] + 2

Some other programming languages I've used certainly do.

> and your attempts to convince me that this goes against
> the Zen have entirely failed to convince me. As I've done
> before, I will admit that one consequence of this design
> is that it makes it hard to introduce new escape sequences
> to Python. Given that it's vanishingly rare to want to do
> so,

I'm not so convinced of that in the days of Unicode. If I
see, backslash, and then some Kanji character, what am I
supposed to make of that? For all I know, that Kanji
character might mean newline, and I'm seeing code for a
version of Python that was tweaked to be friendly to the
Japanese. And in the days where smart hand-held devices are
proliferating like crazy, there might be ever-more demand
for easy-to-use i/o that lets you control various aspects of
those devices.

|>ouglas


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Sat Aug 15 21:01:37 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 18:01:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python 2.6 still not giving memory back to the OS...
References:  
	<38581c40-b7ed-4dbf-a3af-33e1761ba7b0@r7g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <762603ba-0a4c-4504-94d9-34a8b1e3f9c3@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 16, 2:41?am, Mark Dickinson  wrote:
> and got the expected memory usage for my Python process, as
> displayed by top: ?memory usage went up to nearly 1Gb after
> each assignment to b, then dropped down to 19 Mb or so after
> each 'del b'. ?I get similar results under Python 2.5.
>
> So maybe there's something in xlrd that's hanging on to all
> that memory?

News to me, and news to guppy/heapy v0.1.9 -- unless the new Windows
support has some deficiencies -- after `del b` heapy can't find any
trace of the Book object and its contents.

As far as releasing memory back to the OS is concerned, I have dim
memories of *x systems where free() would return space to the OS if
the block was "large" and it was next to the "break" point ... this
effect could be what you are seeing.


From terry.yinzhe at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 21:04:29 2009
From: terry.yinzhe at gmail.com (Terry)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 18:04:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ignored test cases in unittest
Message-ID: 

Hi,

I have some 100s unittest cases with my python program. And sometimes,
I did quick-and-dirty work by ignoring some test cases by adding an
'x' (or something else) to the beginning of the case name.
As time pass by, it's very hard for me to find which test cases are
ignored.

It seemed the to me that python unittest module does not support the
counting of ignored test cases directly. Is there any ready solution
for this?

br, Terry


From roy at panix.com  Sat Aug 15 21:12:14 2009
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 21:12:14 -0400
Subject: ignored test cases in unittest
References: 
Message-ID: 

In article 
,
 Terry  wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I have some 100s unittest cases with my python program. And sometimes,
> I did quick-and-dirty work by ignoring some test cases by adding an
> 'x' (or something else) to the beginning of the case name.
> As time pass by, it's very hard for me to find which test cases are
> ignored.

If you are consistent in how you do this (i.e. always add an "x" to the 
beginning of the name), it should be trivial to find them all.  I'm sure I 
could whip up some introspection based method, but it's easier and faster 
to just do "grep 'def.*xtest' *.py".


From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 21:29:13 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 18:29:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python or ActionScript 3.0
References: <0e14ae96-e9f5-41ff-8c2d-72c4ef624345@18g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8a14e744-eb6c-4ae2-9bb4-2e32fcb987ae@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 15, 5:32?pm, Jaseem  wrote:

> Is python similar to actionscript 3.0

For some very rough sense of "similar" it might be, but not really.

> Which is better to create a rich gui internet application?
> Is it AS 3.0 with flex or python with its GUI libs?

Python doesn't run in your typical web browser, but it is common to
use Python for doing the server-side programming, along with a Python-
based web development framework, such as Django.

You could use Jython to make a JVM applet that would run in a browser,
but JVM applets aren't very popular for a variety of reasons, and I
doubt the performance would be very good.

> Is python in demand?

Yes, it's a popular language.

> Heard that python is similar to lisp.

Kind of. Not any more so that JavaScript is, though, for instance.

> But both python and AS 3.0 is almost identical.

No, Python and ActionScript are not "almost identical".

> Which is more similar to lisp are powerful?

They both have their similarities and differences from Lisp. I think
it would be impossible to say which one is more similar to Lisp. In
general, Python is in my opinion more pleasant to program in than
ActionScript, but Python is not generally used for client-side browser
code.

I think the future of client-side browser programming is actually
JavaScript, not ActionScript, though that future may morph into one
that mostly uses JavaScript as a virtual machine. This is the approach
that Google Web Toolkit takes. It lets you write your client-side code
in Java, and that is then compiled into JavaScript.

|>ouglas





From narkewoody at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 21:52:47 2009
From: narkewoody at gmail.com (Steven Woody)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 09:52:47 +0800
Subject: OptionParser How to: prog  [options] [arguments]
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

Thanks for all you suggestions!
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From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 22:12:06 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 19:12:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python- javascript
References: <985d635f-5784-40a7-a2bb-b76900c200d9@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <54684273-6de7-470e-899e-64e0a191c7e3@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 15, 8:02?pm, Mike Paul  wrote:

> I'm trying to scrap a dynamic page with lot of javascript in it.
> Inorder to get all the data from the page i need to access the
> javascript. But i've no idea how to do it.

I'm not sure exactly what you are trying to do, but scraping websites
that use a lot of JavaScript are often very problematic. The last time
I did so, I had to write some pretty funky regular expressions to pick
data out of the JavaScript. Fortunately, the data was directly in the
JavaScript, rather than me having to reproduce the Ajax calling
chain.  If you need to do that, then you almost certainly want to use
a package designed for doing such things. One such package is
HtmlUnit. It is a "GUI-less browser" with a built-in JavaScript engine
that is design for such scraping tasks.

Unfortunately, you have to program it in Java, rather than Python.
(You might be able to use Jython instead of Java, but I don't know for
sure.)

|>ouglas


P.S. For scraping tasks, you probably want to use BeautifulSoup rather
than urllib2.




From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sat Aug 15 22:15:04 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 12:15:04 +1000
Subject: ignored test cases in unittest
References: 
Message-ID: <873a7so66v.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Terry  writes:

> It seemed the to me that python unittest module does not support the
> counting of ignored test cases directly. Is there any ready solution
> for this?

One solution I've seen involves:

* a custom exception class, ?TestSkipped?

* raising that exception at the top of test cases you want to
  temporarily skip

* a custom ?TestResult? class that knows about a ?skipped? result

* a custom reporter class that knows how you want to report that result

-- 
 \       ?A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of |
  `\                                           widths.? ?Steven Wright |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Aug 15 22:19:02 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 16 Aug 2009 02:19:02 GMT
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in  
	string literals]
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	
	
	<5fcd454d-14b4-452b-91d3-938e9fa0bd18@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <02975ce6$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 13:01:43 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:

> P.S. I find it strange, however, that anyone who is not okay with
> "abusing" operator overloading in this manner, wouldn't also take
> umbrage at Python's overloading of "+" to work with strings and lists,
> etc. Numerical addition and sequence concatenation have entirely
> different semantics.

Not to English speakers, where we frequently use 'add' to mean 
concatenate, append, insert, etc.:

"add this to the end of the list"
"add the prefix 'un-' to the beginning of the word to negate it"
"add your voice to the list of those calling for change"
"add your name and address to the visitor's book"

and even in-place modifications:

"after test audiences' luke-warm response, the studio added a completely 
different ending to the movie".


Personally, I would have preferred & for string and list concatenation, 
but that's entirely for subjective reasons.


-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Aug 15 22:22:38 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 16 Aug 2009 02:22:38 GMT
Subject: A Exhibition Of Tech Geekers Incompetence: Emacs whitespace-mode
References: <61ef4451-d6b6-493b-b4a0-1822a901ca8d@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<4a870a7b$0$1674$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <02975dbe$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 12:24:26 -0700, John Nagle wrote:

> fortunatus wrote:
>> On Aug 14, 1:01 pm, vippstar  wrote:
>>> Why would you fill your website with junk?
>> 
>> The OP made it clear:
>> 
>>> Just wanted to express some frustration with whitespace-mode.
> 
>     Well, it took until Python 3.0 until Python enforced rules that
> ensured that the indentation the user sees is the same indentation the
> compiler sees.  We finally have a solution that allows both tabs and
> spaces but disallows the situations which are ambiguous.  Until Python
> 3.0 is fully deployed, there are situations when you need an insane
> level of tab/space visibility.  Blame Python, not EMACS.

You know, there are situations outside of Python where it is useful to 
see otherwise invisible characters. I was using Microsoft Word's "Show 
Invisibles" functionality years before Python even existed. Being able to 
see a visual glyph in place of whitespace (including line ending 
characters) is not just useful for editing indentation.



-- 
Steven


From bouncyinc at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 22:58:52 2009
From: bouncyinc at gmail.com (John Haggerty)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 20:58:52 -0600
Subject: redoing libgmail interface to "smtplib" blah?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 7:23 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

> On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 14:23:26 -0600, John Haggerty 
> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>
> > The following program is theoretically supposed to use a supported
> library.
> > Issues have come up where the library is not working and now another
> > interface is being requierd to be used.
> >
> > At this point I'm looking at just changing the send commands but don't
> feel
> > confident in doing so. Wondering specifically what would have to be
> changed
> > to what.
> >
> > Thanks for your time :)
>
>         Ugh... I'm afraid if I attacked this program I'd have to
> restructure
> the entire thing... There are no signs of any functional decomposition
> in that -- if Python had an unstructured GOTO, I'd suspect this would
> have been a spaghetti-code program... As it is, the best I can call it
> is lasagna-code  (interwoven but distinct layers in a linear form
> from one end to the other).
>
>
> > if __name__ == "__main__":
> >     import os,time,sys,libgmail
> >     from subprocess import Popen,PIPE
> >     main(sys.argv)
>
>         Given the position of the import statements, this file can NOT be
> used as an importable module for use by other programs, so the whole
> breakdown of a main() is meaningless; might as well remove that if, the
> def main(): line, move the imports to the top, and unindent the rest one
> level.
>
>        All those embedded calls to exit() also offend me; I'm from the "one
> in, one out" school (though I'll use break and continue in a loop, I
> still favor just one usage of them in such)
>
>        Ideally, all the SMS related stuff would be isolated apart from the
> email stuff. Would make changing email interface a lot more intuitive.
>
>        Out of a fit of boredom, though it probably doesn't help your real
> problem, and it has not been tested at all, this is my restructuring of
> the code listing.
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> import os
> import time
> import sys
> import subprocess
>
> import libgmail
>
>
> CARRIERLIST = [   ("3 River Wireless", "@sms.3rivers.net"),
>                   ("7-11 Speakout","@cingularme.com"),
>                  #            ("Airtel (Karnataka","India) Alaska
> Communications Systems"),
>                  ("Alltel Wireless","@message.alltel.com"),
>                  ("AT&T Wireless","@txt.att.net"),
>                  ("Bell Mobility (Canada)","@txt.bell.ca"),
>                  ("Boost Mobile","@myboostmobile.com"),
>                  ("Cellular One (Dobson)","@mobile.celloneusa.com"),
>                  ("Cingular (Postpaid)","@cingularme.com"),
>                  ("Centennial Wireless","@cwemail.com"),
>                  ("Cingular (GoPhone prepaid)","@cingularme.com"),
>                  ("Claro (Nicaragua)","@ideasclaro-ca.com"),
>                  ("Comcel","@comcel.com.co"),
>                  ("Cricket","@sms.mycricket.com"),
>                  ("CTI","@sms.ctimovil.com.ar"),
>                  ("Emtel (Mauritius)","@emtelworld.net"),
>                  ("Fido (Canada)","@fido.ca"),
>                  ("General Communications Inc.","@msg.gci.net"),
>                  ("Globalstar","@msg.globalstarusa.com"),
>                  ("Helio","@myhelio.com"),
>                  ("Illinois Valley Cellular","@ivctext.com"),
>                  #            ("i wireless",".iws at iwspcs.net"),
>                  ("Meteor (Ireland)","@sms.mymeteor.ie"),
>                  ("Mero Mobile (Nepal)","@sms.spicenepal.com"),
>                  ("MetroPCS","@mymetropcs.com"),
>                  ("Movicom","@movimensaje.com.ar"),
>                  ("Mobitel (Sri Lanka)","@sms.mobitel.lk"),
>                  ("Movistar (Colombia)","@movistar.com.co"),
>                  ("MTN (South Africa)","@sms.co.za"),
>                  ("MTS (Canada)","@text.mtsmobility.com"),
>                  ("Nextel (Argentina)","@nextel.net.ar"),
>                  ("Orange (Poland)","@orange.pl"),
>                  ("Personal (Argentina)","@personal-net.com.ar"),
>                  ("Plus GSM (Poland)","@text.plusgsm.pl"),
>                  ("President's Choice (Canada)","@txt.bell.ca"),
>                  ("Qwest","@qwestmp.com"),
>                  ("Rogers (Canada)","@pcs.rogers.com"),
>                  ("Sasktel (Canada)","@sms.sasktel.com"),
>                  ("Setar Mobile email (Aruba)","@mas.aw"),
>                  ("Solo Mobile","@txt.bell.ca"),
>                  ("Sprint (PCS)","@messaging.sprintpcs.com"),
>                  ("Sprint (Nextel)","@page.nextel.com"),
>                  ("Suncom","@tms.suncom.com"),
>                  ("T-Mobile","@tmomail.net"),
>                  ("T-Mobile (Austria)","@sms.t-mobile.at"),
>                  ("Telus Mobility (Canada)","@msg.telus.com"),
>                  ("Thumb Cellular","@sms.thumbcellular.com"),
>                  ("Tigo (Formerly Ola)","@sms.tigo.com.co"),
>                  ("Unicel","@utext.com"),
>                  ("US Cellular","@email.uscc.net"),
>                  ("Verizon","@vtext.com"),
>                  ("Virgin Mobile (Canada)","@vmobile.ca"),
>                  ("Virgin Mobile (USA)","@vmobl.com"),
>                  ("YCC","@sms.ycc.ru"),
>                  ("Orange (UK)","@orange.net"),
>                  ("Cincinnati Bell Wireless","@gocbw.com"),
>                  ("T-Mobile Germany","@t-mobile-sms.de"),
>                  ("Vodafone Germany","@vodafone-sms.de"),
>                   ("E-Plus","@smsmail.eplus.de")    ]
>
> INSTRUCTIONS = """
> ------Usage---------------------------------------------------------------
> ------Start Service ---
>        ogss.py USERNAME PASSWORD CELL-NUMBER CARRIER-NUMBER
> ------List carriers ---
>        ogss.py -c
>
> ------Useage from
> phone----------------------------------------------------
> ------Ogss COMMAND
> """
>
> #odd notation is to split by lines, then join lines with a space
> PHONEINSTRUCTIONS = " ".join(
>     """To use OGSS reply to this message with an SMS starting with
> "Ogss". Whatever follows "Ogss" will be executed on your computer
> """.split())
>
> class Logfile(object):
>    def __init__(self):
>        self.logname = os.path.join(os.environ["HOME"], "ogss.log")
>        if not os.path.exists(self.logname):
>            try:
>                self.log = open(logname, "w+")
>            except:
>                print "Failure to create log file; check permissions"
>                self.log = None
>        else:
>            try:
>                print "Opening log file: %s" % self.logname
>                self.log = open(logname, "r+")
>            except:
>                self.log = None
>
>    def opened(self):
>        return self.log is not None
>
>    def readParse(self):
>        if self.opened():
>            self.log.seek(0, os.SEEK_SET)
>            retdata = []
>            for line in self.log:
>                 eid = line.split("~")
>                if len(eid) >= 2:
>                     retdata.append(int(eid[0]))
>        return retdata
>
>    def write(self, ID, commandLine):
>        if self.opened():
>            self.log.seek(0, os.SEEK_END)
>            self.log.write("%s %s\n" % (ID, commandLine))
>
>    def close(self):
>        if self.opened():
>            self.log.close()
>
> class MailConnection(object):
>    #might have been possible to subclass from libgmail.GmailAccount
>    #but by incorporating that as a component instead makes it
>    #a bit easier to replace with something else (SMTP?)
>    def __init__(self, uname, passwd):
>        self.uname = uname
>        self.passwd = passwd
>        self.account = libgmail.GmailAccount(self.uname, self.passwd)
>
>    def login(self):
>        self.account.login()
>
>    def sendMessage(self, message):
>        self.account.sendMessage(message)
>
>    def getMessageByQuery(qstring, flag):   #what does flag do?
>        return self.account.getMessagesByQuery(qstring, flag)
>
>    def composeMessage(self, to, subject, body):
>        return libgmail.GmailComposedMessage(to,
>                                             subject,
>                                             body)
>
>
> def parseCommandLine(args):
>    retdata = None
>    if len(args) == 1 and args[0] = "-c":
>        for i, car in enumerate(CARRIERLIST):
>            print "%5d -- %s" % (i, car[0])
>
>    elif len(args) > 3:
>        (username, password, number, carrierID) = tuple(args[:4])
>        carrier = CARRIERLIST[int(carrierID)]
>         cell_email = number + carrier[1]
>         retdata = { "User" : username,
>                    "Pass" : password,
>                    "Number" : number,
>                    "ID" : carrierID,
>                    "Carrier" : carrier,
>                    "Cell" : cell_email }
>
>    else:
>        print INSTRUCTIONS
>    return retdata
>
>
> def main(argv):
>    print "Starting ogss"
>
>     print "Opening log file"
>    logfile = Logfile()
>    if logfile.opened():
>        print "Parsing log file"
>        execd = logfile.readParse()
>
>        print "Parsing command line input"
>        callee = parseCommandLine(argv[1:]) #strip program name
>
>        if callee is not None:
>            print "Logging in to mail server"
>            account = MailConnection(callee["User"],
>                                     callee["Pass"])
>            account.login()
>
> ##            #if log file contents are empty, send instructions to
> ##            #user's phone
> ##            if not len(execd):
> ##                account.sendMessage(
> ##                    account.composeMessage(
> ##                        callee["Cell"],
> ##                        "OGSS Instructions",
> ##                        PHONEINSTRUCTIONS)  )
>
>
>            try:
>                while True:
>                    print "Listening for commands"
>                    print "Getting mailbox contents"
>                    searchResult = account.getMessagesByQuery(
>                        "from:" + callee["Cell"],
>                        True    )
>                    if searchResult:    #presume empty if no messages
>                        maxID = 0
>                        maxMessage = None
>                         for thread in searchResult:
>                            for message in thread:
>                                 if callee["Cell"] == message.sender:
>                                    mID = int(message.id, 16)
>                                    if mID > maxID:
>                                        maxID = mID
>                                        maxMessage = message
>
>                        if maxID and maxMessage:
>                            if not maxID in execd:
>                                print "Parsing command from message"
>                                ogssSplit =
> maxMessage.source.split("Ogss")
>                                command = ogssSplit[-1].split(
>                                    "")[0].split()
>
>                                result = subprocess.Popen(
>                                    command,
>                                    stdout = subprocess.PIPE)
>                                body = result.stdout.read()
>                                account.sendMessage(
>                                    account.composeMessage(
>                                        callee["Cell"],
>                                        "STDOUT",
>                                        "\n" + body)    )
>                                logfile.write(maxID, " ".join(command))
>
>                    #TODO add ability to choose sleep time
>                    time.sleep(2)
>             except (KeyboardInterrupt):
>                pass    #exit WHILE loop with  or equivalent
> ##        else:
> ##            pass    #no login data supplied on startup
>
>        logfile.close()
>    else:
>        print "Could not open log file, check permissions"
>
>
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>    main(sys.argv)
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>
>        Everything that needs to be changed for SMTP should be in the class
> MailConnection. Note: it appears that this program expects a
> bidirectional mail connection -- similar to IMAP, where one connection
> access both outgoing mail AND incoming mail that is stored on the remote
> system. You'll probably need to use both SMTP to send the messages, and
> POP3 to retrieve the mailbox contents -- and what you do about leaving
> messages in a POP3 mailbox is up to you; most clients normally delete
> them after fetching, but if the query has to fetch all messages just to
> process one set, that may be a concern... Or you use something else to
> retrieve messages and store them in a local mailbox for subsequent
> usage.
>
>        HMMM that does bring up the point -- where is your existing problem?
> Reading GMAIL or sending to GMAIL?



Sending actually reading worked which was what really surprised me.
Especially since python had a ssl for pop and smtp as well.


>
>
>        Heh... with a bit of work, I could probably create a Eudora filter
> to invoke a Python script on each new fetched email with the proper
> subject/content, and then file it away is a different (local) mailbox --
> and do away with that whole log file search and message searching as
> messages would be processed as received and never seen again.
> --
>        Wulfraed         Dennis Lee Bieber               KD6MOG
>        wlfraed at ix.netcom.com   HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 23:00:23 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 20:00:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in 
	string literals]
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> 
	
	
	 
	
	<5fcd454d-14b4-452b-91d3-938e9fa0bd18@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<02975ce6$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 15, 10:19?pm, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:

> On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 13:01:43 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:
> > P.S. I find it strange, however, that anyone who is not okay with
> > "abusing" operator overloading in this manner, wouldn't also take
> > umbrage at Python's overloading of "+" to work with strings and lists,
> > etc. Numerical addition and sequence concatenation have entirely
> > different semantics.
>
> Not to English speakers, where we frequently use 'add' to mean
> concatenate, append, insert, etc.:

That is certainly true, but the "+" symbol (pronounced "plus" not
"add") isn't exactly synonymous with the English word "add" and is
usually used in, technical circles, to refer to a function that at
least meets the properties of an abelian group operator.

Also, programming languages (other than Perl) should be more precise
than English. English words often have many, many meanings, but when
we are talking about types and operations on types, the operations
should generally have more specific semantics.

In any case, let's say we grant that operators should be allowed to be
as sloppy as English. Then we should have no problem with C++'s use of
"<<" for i/o. Pseudo-code has a long heritage of using "<-" to
indicate assignment, and there are a number of programming language
(e.g., APL) that use assignment to the output terminal to indicate
writing to the terminal.  C++'s usage of "<<" for output is clearly
designed to be reminiscent of this, and therefore intuitive.

And intuitive it is, given the aforementioned background, at least.

So, as far as I can tell, Python has no real authority to throw stones
at C++ on this little tiny particular issue.

|>ouglas


From bouncyinc at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 23:18:14 2009
From: bouncyinc at gmail.com (John Haggerty)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 21:18:14 -0600
Subject: A Exhibition Of Tech Geekers Incompetence: Emacs whitespace-mode
In-Reply-To: <02975dbe$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <61ef4451-d6b6-493b-b4a0-1822a901ca8d@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<4a870a7b$0$1674$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<02975dbe$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

I would have to agree with that since I've had to work with Word 2007 issues
with formatting from some...demanding people in the past. Took at least
1hour plus.

On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 8:22 PM, Steven D'Aprano <
steve at remove-this-cybersource.com.au> wrote:

> On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 12:24:26 -0700, John Nagle wrote:
>
> > fortunatus wrote:
> >> On Aug 14, 1:01 pm, vippstar  wrote:
> >>> Why would you fill your website with junk?
> >>
> >> The OP made it clear:
> >>
> >>> Just wanted to express some frustration with whitespace-mode.
> >
> >     Well, it took until Python 3.0 until Python enforced rules that
> > ensured that the indentation the user sees is the same indentation the
> > compiler sees.  We finally have a solution that allows both tabs and
> > spaces but disallows the situations which are ambiguous.  Until Python
> > 3.0 is fully deployed, there are situations when you need an insane
> > level of tab/space visibility.  Blame Python, not EMACS.
>
> You know, there are situations outside of Python where it is useful to
> see otherwise invisible characters. I was using Microsoft Word's "Show
> Invisibles" functionality years before Python even existed. Being able to
> see a visual glyph in place of whitespace (including line ending
> characters) is not just useful for editing indentation.
>
>
>
> --
> Steven
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From bouncyinc at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 23:37:37 2009
From: bouncyinc at gmail.com (John Haggerty)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 21:37:37 -0600
Subject: unittest
In-Reply-To: <1cbd6f830908142028v638a4c06jf0f859be712e724c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1cbd6f830908142028v638a4c06jf0f859be712e724c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

This is an interesting question. I am just wondering: do you really have
that many features that it would be impossible to just have a shell script
run specific types of input or tests?

When I did programming in the past for education they just had lists of
input data and we ran the program against the test data.

I just get slightly confused when "test suites" start to have to apply?

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 9:28 PM, Mag Gam  wrote:

> I am writing an application which has many command line arguments.
> For example: foo.py -args "bar bee"
>
> I would like to create a test suit using unittest so when I add
> features to "foo.py" I don't want to break other things. I just heard
> about unittest and would love to use it for this type of thing.
>
> so my question is, when I do these tests do I have to code them into
> foo.py? I prefer having a footest.py which will run the regression
> tests. Any thoughts about this?
>
> TIA
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From bouncyinc at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 23:40:23 2009
From: bouncyinc at gmail.com (John Haggerty)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 21:40:23 -0600
Subject: ignored test cases in unittest
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

So you are saying you have several hundred tests you have to do on your
program?

On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 7:04 PM, Terry  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have some 100s unittest cases with my python program. And sometimes,
> I did quick-and-dirty work by ignoring some test cases by adding an
> 'x' (or something else) to the beginning of the case name.
> As time pass by, it's very hard for me to find which test cases are
> ignored.
>
> It seemed the to me that python unittest module does not support the
> counting of ignored test cases directly. Is there any ready solution
> for this?
>
> br, Terry
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From bouncyinc at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 23:44:03 2009
From: bouncyinc at gmail.com (John Haggerty)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 21:44:03 -0600
Subject: Python or ActionScript 3.0
In-Reply-To: <0e14ae96-e9f5-41ff-8c2d-72c4ef624345@18g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: <0e14ae96-e9f5-41ff-8c2d-72c4ef624345@18g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

If it were me I'd go with python at least based on the fact that it's more
supported and more popular, enough so that it has o'reiley soruces on it.

On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 3:32 PM, Jaseem  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Is python similar to actionscript 3.0
> Which is better to create a rich gui internet application?
> Is it AS 3.0 with flex or python with its GUI libs?
>
> Is python in demand?
> Heard that python is similar to lisp. But both python and AS 3.0 is
> almost identical. Which is more similar to lisp are powerful?
>
> Thank You.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From bouncyinc at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 23:59:09 2009
From: bouncyinc at gmail.com (John Haggerty)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 21:59:09 -0600
Subject: random.gauss vs. random.normalvariate
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<89df98da-cdaf-4422-9bc0-c0b46ebefcda@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 7:23 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

> On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 14:34:36 -0600, John Haggerty 
> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>
> > What does the term "thread safe" mean exactly. I never had to program
> with
> > "threads" before
>
>         That, part way through the logic of the function, control could be
> switched to a different thread which call the same function... This
> second call would change some of the internal values and may then be
> preempted and control returned to the first thread, which continues the
> rest of the function with different values then it had when first
> preempted.
>
>        A very contrived example, untested of course, consider it
> pseudo-code...
>
> startt = None
>
> def atimer():
>        global startt
>        startt = time.time()
>        time.sleep(5)
>        print time.time() - startt
>
> t1 = threading.thread(atimer)
> t2 = threading.thread(atimer)
> t1.start()
> t2.start()
>
> Say t1 gets all the way up to the sleep call, and (since sleep is a
> releasing call), t2 then starts. t2 changes the value of startt; and
> sleeps... both sleep and presuming the resolution is fine enough, t1
> resumes, and  prints a delta time that is incorrect -- it is printing
> the time difference from when t2 started to sleep, not from when t1
> started to sleep.
> --
>        Wulfraed         Dennis Lee Bieber               KD6MOG
>        wlfraed at ix.netcom.com   HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

Interesting so it seems that the compiler(c/c++)interpreter(perl,
python)/vm(java) doesn't do this?
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From terry.yinzhe at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 00:09:45 2009
From: terry.yinzhe at gmail.com (Terry Yin)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 12:09:45 +0800
Subject: ignored test cases in unittest
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

Yes, should be more than 200. But now 187+ are running (some are
'ignored').It's
a personal project, I just don't feel safe without all the testing as it
grows bigger and bigger.


On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 11:40 AM, John Haggerty  wrote:

> So you are saying you have several hundred tests you have to do on your
> program?
>
> On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 7:04 PM, Terry  wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have some 100s unittest cases with my python program. And sometimes,
>> I did quick-and-dirty work by ignoring some test cases by adding an
>> 'x' (or something else) to the beginning of the case name.
>> As time pass by, it's very hard for me to find which test cases are
>> ignored.
>>
>> It seemed the to me that python unittest module does not support the
>> counting of ignored test cases directly. Is there any ready solution
>> for this?
>>
>> br, Terry
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>
>


-- 
-------------------------
Blog: http://terry-yinzhe.spaces.live.com/
twitter: http://twitter.com/terryyin
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From http  Sun Aug 16 00:18:36 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 15 Aug 2009 21:18:36 -0700
Subject: random.gauss vs. random.normalvariate
References: 
	<89df98da-cdaf-4422-9bc0-c0b46ebefcda@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: <7xd46ws86b.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Dennis Lee Bieber  writes:
> 	No language can guard against independent access of a shared/global
> object by multiple threads...

Erlang?


From bouncyinc at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 00:23:33 2009
From: bouncyinc at gmail.com (John Haggerty)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 22:23:33 -0600
Subject: random.gauss vs. random.normalvariate
In-Reply-To: <7xd46ws86b.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: 
	<89df98da-cdaf-4422-9bc0-c0b46ebefcda@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
	
	<7xd46ws86b.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: 

Erlang I assume is a computer programming language?

On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 10:18 PM, Paul Rubin
wrote:

> Dennis Lee Bieber  writes:
> >       No language can guard against independent access of a shared/global
> > object by multiple threads...
>
> Erlang?
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From sbassi at clubdelarazon.org  Sun Aug 16 00:55:11 2009
From: sbassi at clubdelarazon.org (Sebastian Bassi)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 01:55:11 -0300
Subject: Python or ActionScript 3.0
In-Reply-To: <8a14e744-eb6c-4ae2-9bb4-2e32fcb987ae@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <0e14ae96-e9f5-41ff-8c2d-72c4ef624345@18g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<8a14e744-eb6c-4ae2-9bb4-2e32fcb987ae@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <9e2f512b0908152155w47318f81r866190ee8bcf1b4@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 10:29 PM, Douglas Alan wrote:
> Python doesn't run in your typical web browser, but it is common to
> use Python for doing the server-side programming, along with a Python-
> based web development framework, such as Django.
> You could use Jython to make a JVM applet that would run in a browser,
> but JVM applets aren't very popular for a variety of reasons, and I
> doubt the performance would be very good.

There is another way to run Python in a browser: MS Silverlight, it
runs IronPython on web browsers.
http://www.trypython.org/


From kee at kagi.com  Sun Aug 16 01:04:25 2009
From: kee at kagi.com (Kee Nethery)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 22:04:25 -0700
Subject: Komodo(!)
In-Reply-To: <553649.43098.qm@web110605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <-7ydndQXQODmNxjXRVn_vwA@giganews.com>
	
	<553649.43098.qm@web110605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5C409E92-2D78-4356-9ED0-34F418CEF2B4@kagi.com>


On Aug 14, 2009, at 1:55 PM, William wrote:

> Personally, I rather like Wing

I tried Wing and basically as a newbie, there were too many setup  
parameters that I did not know how to set correctly and I could never  
get it to work for me. It runs under X11 and I guess that was just a  
bit too techie for me to get it to work properly. It's probably a very  
nice IDE and they were certainly helpful with their support but after  
a bunch of back and forths I decided to go back to Komodo.

Have not looked at NetBeans.

I'm a newbie and I need something that just works. Launch it and use  
it. Komodo meets that need for me.

I've heard there is a nice add-on to Eclipse but Eclipse has even more  
setup variables than Wings and I've avoided it for that reason.

Kee



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Aug 16 01:05:01 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 16 Aug 2009 05:05:01 GMT
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in 
	string literals]
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	
	
	<5fcd454d-14b4-452b-91d3-938e9fa0bd18@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<02975ce6$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <029783cd$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 20:00:23 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:

> So, as far as I can tell, Python has no real authority to throw stones
> at C++ on this little tiny particular issue.

I think you're being a tad over-defensive. I asked a genuine question 
about a quote in somebody's signature. That's a quote which can be found 
all over the Internet, and the poster using it has (as far as I know) no 
official capacity to speak for "Python" -- while Aahz is a high-profile, 
well-respected Pythonista, he's not Guido.

Now that I understand what the semantics of cout << "Hello world" are, I 
don't have any problem with it either. It is a bit weird, "Hello world" 
>> cout would probably be better, but it's hardly the strangest design in 
any programming language, and it's probably influenced by input 
redirection using < in various shells.


-- 
Steven


From bouncyinc at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 01:14:39 2009
From: bouncyinc at gmail.com (John Haggerty)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 23:14:39 -0600
Subject: redoing libgmail interface to "smtplib" blah?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

I did detect one problem thus far

 File "test.py", line 152
    if len(args) == 1 and args[0] = "-c":


On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 7:23 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

> On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 14:23:26 -0600, John Haggerty 
> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>
> > The following program is theoretically supposed to use a supported
> library.
> > Issues have come up where the library is not working and now another
> > interface is being requierd to be used.
> >
> > At this point I'm looking at just changing the send commands but don't
> feel
> > confident in doing so. Wondering specifically what would have to be
> changed
> > to what.
> >
> > Thanks for your time :)
>
>         Ugh... I'm afraid if I attacked this program I'd have to
> restructure
> the entire thing... There are no signs of any functional decomposition
> in that -- if Python had an unstructured GOTO, I'd suspect this would
> have been a spaghetti-code program... As it is, the best I can call it
> is lasagna-code  (interwoven but distinct layers in a linear form
> from one end to the other).
>
>
> > if __name__ == "__main__":
> >     import os,time,sys,libgmail
> >     from subprocess import Popen,PIPE
> >     main(sys.argv)
>
>         Given the position of the import statements, this file can NOT be
> used as an importable module for use by other programs, so the whole
> breakdown of a main() is meaningless; might as well remove that if, the
> def main(): line, move the imports to the top, and unindent the rest one
> level.
>
>        All those embedded calls to exit() also offend me; I'm from the "one
> in, one out" school (though I'll use break and continue in a loop, I
> still favor just one usage of them in such)
>
>        Ideally, all the SMS related stuff would be isolated apart from the
> email stuff. Would make changing email interface a lot more intuitive.
>
>        Out of a fit of boredom, though it probably doesn't help your real
> problem, and it has not been tested at all, this is my restructuring of
> the code listing.
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> import os
> import time
> import sys
> import subprocess
>
> import libgmail
>
>
> CARRIERLIST = [   ("3 River Wireless", "@sms.3rivers.net"),
>                   ("7-11 Speakout","@cingularme.com"),
>                  #            ("Airtel (Karnataka","India) Alaska
> Communications Systems"),
>                  ("Alltel Wireless","@message.alltel.com"),
>                  ("AT&T Wireless","@txt.att.net"),
>                  ("Bell Mobility (Canada)","@txt.bell.ca"),
>                  ("Boost Mobile","@myboostmobile.com"),
>                  ("Cellular One (Dobson)","@mobile.celloneusa.com"),
>                  ("Cingular (Postpaid)","@cingularme.com"),
>                  ("Centennial Wireless","@cwemail.com"),
>                  ("Cingular (GoPhone prepaid)","@cingularme.com"),
>                  ("Claro (Nicaragua)","@ideasclaro-ca.com"),
>                  ("Comcel","@comcel.com.co"),
>                  ("Cricket","@sms.mycricket.com"),
>                  ("CTI","@sms.ctimovil.com.ar"),
>                  ("Emtel (Mauritius)","@emtelworld.net"),
>                  ("Fido (Canada)","@fido.ca"),
>                  ("General Communications Inc.","@msg.gci.net"),
>                  ("Globalstar","@msg.globalstarusa.com"),
>                  ("Helio","@myhelio.com"),
>                  ("Illinois Valley Cellular","@ivctext.com"),
>                  #            ("i wireless",".iws at iwspcs.net"),
>                  ("Meteor (Ireland)","@sms.mymeteor.ie"),
>                  ("Mero Mobile (Nepal)","@sms.spicenepal.com"),
>                  ("MetroPCS","@mymetropcs.com"),
>                  ("Movicom","@movimensaje.com.ar"),
>                  ("Mobitel (Sri Lanka)","@sms.mobitel.lk"),
>                  ("Movistar (Colombia)","@movistar.com.co"),
>                  ("MTN (South Africa)","@sms.co.za"),
>                  ("MTS (Canada)","@text.mtsmobility.com"),
>                  ("Nextel (Argentina)","@nextel.net.ar"),
>                  ("Orange (Poland)","@orange.pl"),
>                  ("Personal (Argentina)","@personal-net.com.ar"),
>                  ("Plus GSM (Poland)","@text.plusgsm.pl"),
>                  ("President's Choice (Canada)","@txt.bell.ca"),
>                  ("Qwest","@qwestmp.com"),
>                  ("Rogers (Canada)","@pcs.rogers.com"),
>                  ("Sasktel (Canada)","@sms.sasktel.com"),
>                  ("Setar Mobile email (Aruba)","@mas.aw"),
>                  ("Solo Mobile","@txt.bell.ca"),
>                  ("Sprint (PCS)","@messaging.sprintpcs.com"),
>                  ("Sprint (Nextel)","@page.nextel.com"),
>                  ("Suncom","@tms.suncom.com"),
>                  ("T-Mobile","@tmomail.net"),
>                  ("T-Mobile (Austria)","@sms.t-mobile.at"),
>                  ("Telus Mobility (Canada)","@msg.telus.com"),
>                  ("Thumb Cellular","@sms.thumbcellular.com"),
>                  ("Tigo (Formerly Ola)","@sms.tigo.com.co"),
>                  ("Unicel","@utext.com"),
>                  ("US Cellular","@email.uscc.net"),
>                  ("Verizon","@vtext.com"),
>                  ("Virgin Mobile (Canada)","@vmobile.ca"),
>                  ("Virgin Mobile (USA)","@vmobl.com"),
>                  ("YCC","@sms.ycc.ru"),
>                  ("Orange (UK)","@orange.net"),
>                  ("Cincinnati Bell Wireless","@gocbw.com"),
>                  ("T-Mobile Germany","@t-mobile-sms.de"),
>                  ("Vodafone Germany","@vodafone-sms.de"),
>                   ("E-Plus","@smsmail.eplus.de")    ]
>
> INSTRUCTIONS = """
> ------Usage---------------------------------------------------------------
> ------Start Service ---
>        ogss.py USERNAME PASSWORD CELL-NUMBER CARRIER-NUMBER
> ------List carriers ---
>        ogss.py -c
>
> ------Useage from
> phone----------------------------------------------------
> ------Ogss COMMAND
> """
>
> #odd notation is to split by lines, then join lines with a space
> PHONEINSTRUCTIONS = " ".join(
>     """To use OGSS reply to this message with an SMS starting with
> "Ogss". Whatever follows "Ogss" will be executed on your computer
> """.split())
>
> class Logfile(object):
>    def __init__(self):
>        self.logname = os.path.join(os.environ["HOME"], "ogss.log")
>        if not os.path.exists(self.logname):
>            try:
>                self.log = open(logname, "w+")
>            except:
>                print "Failure to create log file; check permissions"
>                self.log = None
>        else:
>            try:
>                print "Opening log file: %s" % self.logname
>                self.log = open(logname, "r+")
>            except:
>                self.log = None
>
>    def opened(self):
>        return self.log is not None
>
>    def readParse(self):
>        if self.opened():
>            self.log.seek(0, os.SEEK_SET)
>            retdata = []
>            for line in self.log:
>                 eid = line.split("~")
>                if len(eid) >= 2:
>                     retdata.append(int(eid[0]))
>        return retdata
>
>    def write(self, ID, commandLine):
>        if self.opened():
>            self.log.seek(0, os.SEEK_END)
>            self.log.write("%s %s\n" % (ID, commandLine))
>
>    def close(self):
>        if self.opened():
>            self.log.close()
>
> class MailConnection(object):
>    #might have been possible to subclass from libgmail.GmailAccount
>    #but by incorporating that as a component instead makes it
>    #a bit easier to replace with something else (SMTP?)
>    def __init__(self, uname, passwd):
>        self.uname = uname
>        self.passwd = passwd
>        self.account = libgmail.GmailAccount(self.uname, self.passwd)
>
>    def login(self):
>        self.account.login()
>
>    def sendMessage(self, message):
>        self.account.sendMessage(message)
>
>    def getMessageByQuery(qstring, flag):   #what does flag do?
>        return self.account.getMessagesByQuery(qstring, flag)
>
>    def composeMessage(self, to, subject, body):
>        return libgmail.GmailComposedMessage(to,
>                                             subject,
>                                             body)
>
>
> def parseCommandLine(args):
>    retdata = None
>    if len(args) == 1 and args[0] = "-c":
>        for i, car in enumerate(CARRIERLIST):
>            print "%5d -- %s" % (i, car[0])
>
>    elif len(args) > 3:
>        (username, password, number, carrierID) = tuple(args[:4])
>        carrier = CARRIERLIST[int(carrierID)]
>         cell_email = number + carrier[1]
>         retdata = { "User" : username,
>                    "Pass" : password,
>                    "Number" : number,
>                    "ID" : carrierID,
>                    "Carrier" : carrier,
>                    "Cell" : cell_email }
>
>    else:
>        print INSTRUCTIONS
>    return retdata
>
>
> def main(argv):
>    print "Starting ogss"
>
>     print "Opening log file"
>    logfile = Logfile()
>    if logfile.opened():
>        print "Parsing log file"
>        execd = logfile.readParse()
>
>        print "Parsing command line input"
>        callee = parseCommandLine(argv[1:]) #strip program name
>
>        if callee is not None:
>            print "Logging in to mail server"
>            account = MailConnection(callee["User"],
>                                     callee["Pass"])
>            account.login()
>
> ##            #if log file contents are empty, send instructions to
> ##            #user's phone
> ##            if not len(execd):
> ##                account.sendMessage(
> ##                    account.composeMessage(
> ##                        callee["Cell"],
> ##                        "OGSS Instructions",
> ##                        PHONEINSTRUCTIONS)  )
>
>
>            try:
>                while True:
>                    print "Listening for commands"
>                    print "Getting mailbox contents"
>                    searchResult = account.getMessagesByQuery(
>                        "from:" + callee["Cell"],
>                        True    )
>                    if searchResult:    #presume empty if no messages
>                        maxID = 0
>                        maxMessage = None
>                         for thread in searchResult:
>                            for message in thread:
>                                 if callee["Cell"] == message.sender:
>                                    mID = int(message.id, 16)
>                                    if mID > maxID:
>                                        maxID = mID
>                                        maxMessage = message
>
>                        if maxID and maxMessage:
>                            if not maxID in execd:
>                                print "Parsing command from message"
>                                ogssSplit =
> maxMessage.source.split("Ogss")
>                                command = ogssSplit[-1].split(
>                                    "")[0].split()
>
>                                result = subprocess.Popen(
>                                    command,
>                                    stdout = subprocess.PIPE)
>                                body = result.stdout.read()
>                                account.sendMessage(
>                                    account.composeMessage(
>                                        callee["Cell"],
>                                        "STDOUT",
>                                        "\n" + body)    )
>                                logfile.write(maxID, " ".join(command))
>
>                    #TODO add ability to choose sleep time
>                    time.sleep(2)
>             except (KeyboardInterrupt):
>                pass    #exit WHILE loop with  or equivalent
> ##        else:
> ##            pass    #no login data supplied on startup
>
>        logfile.close()
>    else:
>        print "Could not open log file, check permissions"
>
>
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>    main(sys.argv)
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>
>        Everything that needs to be changed for SMTP should be in the class
> MailConnection. Note: it appears that this program expects a
> bidirectional mail connection -- similar to IMAP, where one connection
> access both outgoing mail AND incoming mail that is stored on the remote
> system. You'll probably need to use both SMTP to send the messages, and
> POP3 to retrieve the mailbox contents -- and what you do about leaving
> messages in a POP3 mailbox is up to you; most clients normally delete
> them after fetching, but if the query has to fetch all messages just to
> process one set, that may be a concern... Or you use something else to
> retrieve messages and store them in a local mailbox for subsequent
> usage.
>
>        HMMM that does bring up the point -- where is your existing problem?
> Reading GMAIL or sending to GMAIL?
>
>        Heh... with a bit of work, I could probably create a Eudora filter
> to invoke a Python script on each new fetched email with the proper
> subject/content, and then file it away is a different (local) mailbox --
> and do away with that whole log file search and message searching as
> messages would be processed as received and never seen again.
> --
>        Wulfraed         Dennis Lee Bieber               KD6MOG
>        wlfraed at ix.netcom.com   HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From enleverLesX_XXmcX at XmclavXeauX.com  Sun Aug 16 01:43:29 2009
From: enleverLesX_XXmcX at XmclavXeauX.com (Michel Claveau - MVP)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 07:43:29 +0200
Subject: Python or ActionScript 3.0
References: <8a14e744-eb6c-4ae2-9bb4-2e32fcb987ae@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a879c84$0$17754$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr>

Hi!

> Python doesn't run in your typical web browser

Yes, Python can do it... on Windows.
Two (examples) ways:
  - ActiveScripting (PythonScript), include in PyWin32
  - Gestalt (who mix Python, Ruby & Javascript, via Silverlight)

And alse, these two solutions run OK in HTA (HTml Application) for use HTML as GUI tool in local applications.

@-salutations
-- 
Michel Claveau 



From enleverLesX_XXmcX at XmclavXeauX.com  Sun Aug 16 01:46:45 2009
From: enleverLesX_XXmcX at XmclavXeauX.com (Michel Claveau - MVP)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 07:46:45 +0200
Subject: Python- javascript
References: <985d635f-5784-40a7-a2bb-b76900c200d9@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a879d47$0$17765$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr>

Hi!

If you are under Windows, you can drive IE, for indirect drive the web-pages. 
In this case, you can then interact with pages & the javascript's scripts included.

For more, see Pywin32, Pamie, Pxie, etc.

@-salutations
-- 
Michel Claveau 



From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 01:51:07 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 22:51:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in 
	string literals]
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> 
	
	
	 
	
	<5fcd454d-14b4-452b-91d3-938e9fa0bd18@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<02975ce6$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<029783cd$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <34dd6e0e-3b47-4761-ad7a-9038b0d36209@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 16, 1:05?am, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 20:00:23 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:
> > So, as far as I can tell, Python has no real authority to throw stones
> > at C++ on this little tiny particular issue.

> I think you're being a tad over-defensive.

Defensive? Personally, I prefer Python over C++ by about a factor of
100X. I just find it a bit amusing when someone claims that some
programming language has a particular fatal flaw, when their own
apparently favorite language has the very same issue in an only
slightly different form.

> the poster using it has (as far as I know) no official capacity to speak
> for "Python"

I never thought he did. I wasn't speaking literally, as I'm not under
the opinion that any programming language has any literal authority or
any literal ability to throw stones.

> Now that I understand what the semantics of cout << "Hello world" are, I
> don't have any problem with it either. It is a bit weird, "Hello world">> cout
> would probably be better, but it's hardly the strangest design in
> any programming language, and it's probably influenced by input
> redirection using < in various shells.

C++ also allows for reading from stdin like so:

   cin >> myVar;

I think the direction of the arrows probably derives from languages
like APL, which had notation something like so:

     myVar <- 3
     [] <- myVar

"<-" was really a little arrow symbol (APL didn't use ascii), and the
first line above would assign the value 3 to myVar. In the second
line, the "[]" was really a little box symbol and represented the
terminal.  Assigning to the box would cause the output to be printed
on the terminal, so the above would output "3".  If you did this:

     [] -> myVar

It would read a value into myVar from the terminal.

APL predates Unix by quite a few years.

|>ouglas


From xahlee at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 01:54:06 2009
From: xahlee at gmail.com (Xah Lee)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 22:54:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Xah's Edu Corner: The importance of syntax & notations.
Message-ID: 

Xah's Edu Corner: The importance of syntax & notations.

http://www.stephenwolfram.com/publications/recent/mathml/mathml_abstract.html

this article should teach the coding sophomorons and computer
?science? idiotic authors who harbor the notion that syntax is not
important, picked up by all the elite i-reddit & twittering &  hacker
news am-hip dunces.

Further readings:

? The TeX Pestilence
  http://xahlee.org/cmaci/notation/TeX_pestilence.html

? A Notation for Plane Geometry
  http://xahlee.org/cmaci/notation/plane_geometry_notation.html

? The Concepts and Confusions of Prefix, Infix, Postfix and Fully
Nested Notations
  http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/notations.html

? The Problems of Traditional Math Notation
  http://xahlee.org/cmaci/notation/trad_math_notation.html

  Xah
? http://xahlee.org/

?


From timr at probo.com  Sun Aug 16 02:07:07 2009
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 23:07:07 -0700
Subject: Pygresql, and query meta informations
References: <55aceb1c-b3d9-4f9b-b8cf-d9833edb2660@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <368f85prhp9d349trtooj5qsqmqmip0qqp@4ax.com>

durumdara  wrote:
>
>Pygresql, DB-API.
>
>I search for a solution to get meta information about last query,
>because I must export these infos to Delphi.
>
>Delphi have TDataSet, and it have meta structure that must be defined
>before I create it.
>For char/varchar fields I must define their sizes!
>
>Pygresql is not retreive the field sizes.

You should be able to get that information from the .description member of
the cursor object.  Have you checked it?

If not, you will have to use fetch the information from the
Postgres-specific tables, pg_class and pg_attribute.  pg_class contains
information about your tables; when you fetch the class number for your
table, you can look up the columns in pg_attribute.
-- 
Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From nagle at animats.com  Sun Aug 16 02:20:34 2009
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 23:20:34 -0700
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a Serial
	port?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<4vmil6-ait.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	
Message-ID: <4a87a444$0$1627$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:
> On Saturday 15 August 2009 14:40:35 Michael Str?der wrote:
>> Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:
>>> In the past, on this  group, I have made statements that said that on
>>> Linux, the serial port handling somehow does not allow transmitting and
>>> receiving at the same time, and nobody contradicted me.

     Absolutely false.

>> Despite all the good comments here by other skilled people I'd recommend to
>> determine whether the transmission line to the devices accessed support
>> full duplex.

     All standard PC serial ports are full-duplex devices.

     Here's a program I wrote which uses "pyserial" to drive Baudot teletypes
as full-duplex devices.

	https://sourceforge.net/projects/baudotrss/

This uses an input thread and an output thread.  It reads RSS feeds and
prints them on antique Teletype machines.  (Reuters RSS feeds produce
a classic news ticker.  Twitter RSS feeds work but look silly when
hammered out on yellow paper at 45.45 baud.)
> 
> You raise a good point, that is probably not well known amongst the youngsters 
> here, as simple serial multidropping has gone out of fashion.

     Actually, no.  Dynamixel servos as used on the latest Bioloid robots
are multidrop serial RS-485.  But outside the embedded world, nobody uses
that stuff any more.  (Embedded is going Ethernet; it's overkill but
works fine and is now cheap.)

					John Nagle


From emmanuel.surleau at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 02:30:54 2009
From: emmanuel.surleau at gmail.com (Emmanuel Surleau)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 08:30:54 +0200
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
In-Reply-To: <4A8612CE.7080700@stoneleaf.us>
References: <24980842.post@talk.nabble.com> <4A8612CE.7080700@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <200908160830.55031.emmanuel.surleau@gmail.com>

> Dr. Phillip M. Feldman wrote:

[snip]

> > def is_prime(n):
> >    for j in range(2,n):
> >       if (n % j) == 0: return False
> >    return True
> >
> > It seems as though Python is actually expanding range(2,n) into a list of
> > numbers, even though this is incredibly wasteful of memory. There should
> > be a looping mechanism that generates the index variable values
> > incrementally as they are needed.
>
> You already have an answer to the range issue, so I will only add that
> putting a loop inside another loop is a decent way to expand the time
> taken.
>
> I will also observe that if you were to stop programming whatever
> language you are more familiar with in Python, and start programming
> Python in Python, you'll have an easier time of it.

I don't see what's particularly un-Pythonic with this code. Not using xrange() 
is a mistake, certainly, but it remains clear, easily understandable code 
which correctly demonstrates the naive algorithm for detecting whether n is a 
prime. It doesn't call for condescension

> The Dive Into Python is an excellent start for that.

I never read it, but I was under the impression that the tutorial on 
python.org was geared toward programmers moving to Python from other 
languages. It was also my impression that Dive Into Python is rather outdated 
and occasionally inaccurate (based on comments on this mailing list).

Cheers,

Emm


From dmitrey.kroshko at scipy.org  Sun Aug 16 02:36:56 2009
From: dmitrey.kroshko at scipy.org (dmitrey)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 23:36:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: "for" cycle with assigning index
References: <4149f0b2-603d-4c59-aa34-bd0fd826303c@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <7eac79f9-8b38-4aa6-8bd7-4dc042037b31@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>

Thanks all, especially Dennis for your detailed answer.
left_arr_indexes is list of nonnegative integers, eg [0,0,0,1,1,4]
IndDict is a dict like {0: [1,2], 3: [0,1], 10:[0,2,3]}, so that's why
I don't use python list instead.
The code is taken from OpenOpt framework that I develop. Currently I
have implemented another workaround but the solution you proposed can
be used in other parts of code.
Regards, D.

On Aug 16, 4:23?am, Dennis Lee Bieber  wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 13:22:08 -0700, Dennis Lee Bieber
>  declaimed the following in
> gmane.comp.python.general:
>
> ? ? ? ? Okay -- my lack of experience with lambda shows... forgot to guard
> the intermediates...
>
> > > for i in xrange(len(Funcs2)):
> > > ? ? ?Funcs.append(lambda i=i,*args, **kwargs: (Funcs2[i](*args,
> > > **kwargs)[IndDict[left_arr_indexes[i]]]))
>
> > > I get "list indices must be integers, not dict" (and i is equal to
> > > Python dictionary, that is Funcs2)
>
> ? ? ? ? So... with the following assumptions (and ignoring all the other
> respondents )...
>
> 1) ? ? ?Funcs2 IS a dictionary keyed by sequential integers starting at 0
> 2) ? ? ?Order in Funcs matters; that is, the first element of the list must
> align with the element of the dictionary having key "0"
> 3) ? ? ?IndDict and left_arr_indexes DO NOT CHANGE CONTENT after the loop
> runs
> 4) ? ? ?left_arr_indexes is at least as long as Funcs2
>
> assert (min(Funcs2.keys()) == 0
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? and
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? max(Funcs2.keys()) == (len(Funcs2) - 1)) ? ? ? ?#1
> assert len(left_arr_indexes) >= len(Funcs2) ? ? ? ? ?#4
>
> Funcs = [None] * len(Funcs2) ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?#2a
> for ki, fv in Funcs2.items(): ? #ki->key as index; fv->function value
> ? ? ? ? ritmp = IndDict[left_arr_indexes[ki]] ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? #3
> ? ? ? ? Funcs[ki] = (lambda ri=ritmp, fn=fv, *args, **kwargs:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? (fn(*args, **kwargs)[ri]) ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? #2b
>
> ri and fn used to protect the intermediates, ritmp and fv, from changes
>
> 2a is needed as the order of .items() is undefined, so .append() can not
> be used. This presets the result list size permitting direct indexing
> (2b) to fill slots in order.
>
> #1 can still fail itself if a key is NOT an integer (what is the min()
> of 0 and "a")
>
> ? ? ? ? I still don't know if IndDict is really a list or a dictionary, nor
> what left_array_indexes contains (by name, it is a list of values to
> index into another list -- but could be a list of keys to access a
> dictionary)
>
> ? ? ? ? And I'll reiterate: if you are using dictionaries in which the keys
> are sequential integers starting at 0... Replace them with simple
> lists...
> --
> ? ? ? ? Wulfraed ? ? ? ? Dennis Lee Bieber ? ? ? ? ? ? ? KD6MOG
> ? ? ? ? wlfr... at ix.netcom.com ? ? ?HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/



From mail at microcorp.co.za  Sun Aug 16 03:24:36 2009
From: mail at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 09:24:36 +0200
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in
	string literals]
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com><02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com><5fcd454d-14b4-452b-91d3-938e9fa0bd18@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com><02975ce6$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<029783cd$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <009f01ca1e42$9c833600$0d00a8c0@Hendrik>


>"Steven D'Aprano"  wrote:

>Now that I understand what the semantics of cout << "Hello world" are, I 
>don't have any problem with it either. It is a bit weird, "Hello world" 
>>> cout would probably be better, but it's hardly the strangest design in 
>any programming language, and it's probably influenced by input 
>redirection using < in various shells.

I find it strange that you would prefer:

"Hello world" >> cout 
over:
cout << "Hello world" 

The latter seems to me to be more in line with normal assignment: -
Take what is on the right and make the left the same.
I suppose it is because we read from left to right that the first one seems 
better to you.
Another instance of how different we all are.

It goes down to the assembler - there are two schools:

    mov    a,b      - for Intel like languages, this means move b to a
    mov    a,b      - for Motorola like languages, this means move a to b

Gets confusing sometimes.

- Hendrik





From jcm1981 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 03:57:41 2009
From: jcm1981 at gmail.com (Chang Min Jeon)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 16:57:41 +0900
Subject: my recursive function call is wrong?
Message-ID: <22a413260908160057t2802d3cci70658278e7322eb8@mail.gmail.com>

I'm trying to write program to translate define macro in 'C'.
And start_parse has return condition that list's length is 0.
At this time return statement invoke start_parse() function.
I can't understand do that.

I'm using Python 2.6.2 in Windows XP

import re
import sys
comment = '''
#if defined (FEATURE_ONENESTED)
#    define PYTHON_POWERED
#    if defined(ANY_LANGUAGE)
#        error
#    endif
#else
#    define FEATURE_NONE
#endif
'''

symbol_table = ['FEATURE_ONENESTED']

valid_area = False

p_define = re.compile('^[\t ]*#[\t ]*define[\t ]+([a-zA-Z0-9_]+)[\t ]*')
p_if = re.compile('^[\t ]*#[\t ]*if[\t
]+defined[\s]*[\(]*([a-zA-Z0-9_]+)[\)]*[\t ]*')
p_elif = re.compile('^[\t ]*#[\t ]*elif[\t ]*')
p_else = re.compile('^[\t ]*#[\t ]*else[\t ]*')
p_endif = re.compile('^[\t ]*#[\t ]*endif[\t ]*')

def start_parse(macro):
    global valid_area
    if len(macro) == 0:
        return

    if valid_area == True:

        if p_else.match(macro[0]):
            valid_area = False
            macro.pop(0)
            start_parse(macro)

        match = p_define.match(macro[0])
        if match:
            symbol_table.append(match.group(1))
            macro.pop(0)
            start_parse(macro)


    match = p_if.match(macro[0])
    if match:
        for symbol in symbol_table:#print match.group(1)
            if match.group(1) == symbol:
                #print match.group(1)
                valid_area = True
            else:
                valid_area = False

    if p_else.match(macro[0]):
        macro.pop(0)
        start_parse(macro)

    match = p_endif.match(macro[0])
    if match:
        valid_area = False

    macro.pop(0)
    start_parse(macro)

if __name__ == '__main__':
    l = comment.splitlines()
    start_parse(l)
    print symbol_table
-- 
CashFlow
To be rich.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sun Aug 16 04:04:59 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 04:04:59 -0400
Subject: What happened to __cmp__() in Python 3.x?
In-Reply-To: <2d56febf0908150509k1b6a3b98j7e76ae6596108280@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2d56febf0908150509k1b6a3b98j7e76ae6596108280@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908160104k7d74ace9jda8f4b927402942@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 8:09 AM, Xavier Ho wrote:
> Hey all,
>
> I've recently made my way to Python 3.1 and I'm not seeing __cmp__() in the
> documentation.
>
> Is there a substitution for this special method in 3.1, or do I really have
> to define all six rich comparison methods to work it out?

I don't think so. Quoting
http://docs.python.org/dev/py3k/reference/datamodel.html

"There are no swapped-argument versions of [the comparison] methods
(to be used when the left argument does not support the operation but
the right argument does); rather, __lt__() and __gt__() are each
other?s reflection, __le__() and __ge__() are each other?s reflection,
and __eq__() and __ne__() are their own reflection."

I believe this means you only need to define one method from each of
the following pairs to get all the operators working:
* __eq__ or __ne__
* __lt__ or __gt__
* __ge__ or __le__

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sun Aug 16 04:07:20 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 04:07:20 -0400
Subject: What happened to __cmp__() in Python 3.x?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <2d56febf0908150509k1b6a3b98j7e76ae6596108280@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908160107k6f31141dt5143071d0ff54c71@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 1:06 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
> Xavier Ho wrote:
>>
>> Hey all,
>>
>> I've recently made my way to Python 3.1 and I'm not seeing __cmp__() in
>> the
>> documentation.
>>
>> Is there a substitution for this special method in 3.1, or do I really
>> have
>> to define all six rich comparison methods to work it out?
>>
>> If this question has already been asked somewhere, I apologise in advance.
>> Already googled around but I didn't find information on this.
>>
>> Any replies appreciated.
>>
> http://bytes.com/topic/python/answers/844614-python-3-sorting-comparison-function

That seems to be about the built-in function cmp(). The OP was asking
about the special method __cmp__ and the related rich comparison
special methods (__eq__, __lt__, etc).

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sun Aug 16 04:15:43 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 04:15:43 -0400
Subject: random.gauss vs. random.normalvariate
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<89df98da-cdaf-4422-9bc0-c0b46ebefcda@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
	
	<7xd46ws86b.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908160115l2db5fe2eo4c665a3a83c4a8@mail.gmail.com>

> On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 10:18 PM, Paul Rubin 
> wrote:
>>
>> Dennis Lee Bieber  writes:
>> > ? ? ? No language can guard against independent access of a
>> > shared/global
>> > object by multiple threads...
>>
>> Erlang?

On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 12:23 AM, John Haggerty wrote:
> Erlang I assume is a computer programming language?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erlang_(programming_language)

There's a reason Wikipedia has a search function... :)

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Aug 16 04:22:58 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 16 Aug 2009 08:22:58 GMT
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in
	string literals]
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	
	
	<5fcd454d-14b4-452b-91d3-938e9fa0bd18@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<02975ce6$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<029783cd$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <0297b230$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 09:24:36 +0200, Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:

>>"Steven D'Aprano"  wrote:
> 
>>Now that I understand what the semantics of cout << "Hello world" are, I
>>don't have any problem with it either. It is a bit weird, "Hello world"
>>>> cout would probably be better, but it's hardly the strangest design
>>>> in
>>any programming language, and it's probably influenced by input
>>redirection using < in various shells.
> 
> I find it strange that you would prefer:
> 
> "Hello world" >> cout
> over:
> cout << "Hello world"
> 
> The latter seems to me to be more in line with normal assignment: - Take
> what is on the right and make the left the same. 

I don't like normal assignment. After nearly four decades of mathematics 
and programming, I'm used to it, but I don't think it is especially good. 
It confuses beginners to programming: they get one set of behaviour 
drilled into them in maths class, and then in programming class we use 
the same notation for something which is almost, but not quite, the same. 
Consider the difference between:

y = 3 + x
x = z

as a pair of mathematics expressions versus as a pair of assignments. 
What conclusion can you draw about y and z?

Even though it looks funny due to unfamiliarity, I'd love to see the 
results of a teaching language that used notation like:

3 + x -> y
len(alist) -> n
Widget(1, 2, 3).magic -> obj
etc.

for assignment. My prediction is that it would be easier to learn, and 
just as good for experienced coders. The only downside (apart from 
unfamiliarity) is that it would be a little bit harder to find the 
definition of a variable by visually skimming lines of code: your eyes 
have to zig-zag back and forth to find the end of the line, instead of 
running straight down the left margin looking for "myvar = ...". But it 
should be easy enough to search for "-> myvar".


> I suppose it is because
> we read from left to right that the first one seems better to you.

Probably.


-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Aug 16 04:32:35 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 16 Aug 2009 08:32:35 GMT
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
References: <24980842.post@talk.nabble.com> <4A8612CE.7080700@stoneleaf.us>
	
Message-ID: <0297b471$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 08:30:54 +0200, Emmanuel Surleau wrote:

[...]
>> I will also observe that if you were to stop programming whatever
>> language you are more familiar with in Python, and start programming
>> Python in Python, you'll have an easier time of it.
> 
> I don't see what's particularly un-Pythonic with this code. Not using
> xrange() is a mistake, certainly, but it remains clear, easily
> understandable code which correctly demonstrates the naive algorithm for
> detecting whether n is a prime. It doesn't call for condescension

It's a particular unfair criticism because the critic (Ethan Furman) 
appears to have made a knee-jerk reaction. The "some language in Python" 
behaviour he's reacting to is the common idiom:

for i in range(len(seq)):
    do_something_with(seq[i])


instead of the "Python in Python" idiom:

for obj in seq:
    do_something_with(obj)


That's a reasonable criticism, but *not in the case*. Ethan appears to 
have made the knee-jerk reaction "for i in range() is Bad" without 
stopping to think about what this specific piece of code is actually 
doing.

(Replace 'obj' with 'j', 'seq' with 'range(2, n)', and 
'do_something_with' with 'if (n % j) == 0: return False', and you have 
the exact same code pattern.)


-- 
Steven


From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 04:41:41 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 01:41:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in 
	string literals]
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> 
	
	
	 
	
	<5fcd454d-14b4-452b-91d3-938e9fa0bd18@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<02975ce6$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<029783cd$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	 
	<0297b230$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <74a3f562-6209-485e-9fbb-145ec00c331c@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 16, 4:22?am, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:

> I don't like normal assignment. After nearly four decades of mathematics
> and programming, I'm used to it, but I don't think it is especially good.
> It confuses beginners to programming: they get one set of behaviour
> drilled into them in maths class, and then in programming class we use
> the same notation for something which is almost, but not quite, the same.
> Consider the difference between:
>
> y = 3 + x
> x = z
>
> as a pair of mathematics expressions versus as a pair of assignments.
> What conclusion can you draw about y and z?

Yeah, the syntax most commonly used for assignment today sucks. In the
past, it was common to see languages with syntaxes like

   y <- y + 1

or

   y := y + 1

or

   let y = y + 1

But these languages have mostly fallen out of favor. The popular
statistical programming language R still uses the

   y <- y + 1

syntax, though.

Personally, my favorite is Lisp, which looks like

   (set! y (+ y 1))

or

   (let ((x 3)
         (y 4))
     (foo x y))

I like to be able to read everything from left to right, and Lisp does
that more than any other programming language.

I would definitely not like a language that obscures assignment by
moving it over to the right side of lines.

|>ouglas



From max at alcyone.com  Sun Aug 16 04:46:11 2009
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 01:46:11 -0700
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in
	string literals]
In-Reply-To: <0297b230$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>		<02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>					<5fcd454d-14b4-452b-91d3-938e9fa0bd18@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>	<02975ce6$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>		<029783cd$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	
	<0297b230$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> I don't like normal assignment. After nearly four decades of mathematics 
> and programming, I'm used to it, but I don't think it is especially good. 
> It confuses beginners to programming: they get one set of behaviour 
> drilled into them in maths class, and then in programming class we use 
> the same notation for something which is almost, but not quite, the same. 
> Consider the difference between:
> 
> y = 3 + x
> x = z
> 
> as a pair of mathematics expressions versus as a pair of assignments. 
> What conclusion can you draw about y and z?

What you're saying is true, but it's still a matter of terminology.  The 
symbol "=" means different things in different contexts, and mathematics 
and programming are very different ones indeed.  The problem is 
compounded with early languages which lazily confused the two in 
different context, such as (but not exclusive to) BASIC using = for both 
assignment and equality testing in what are in esssence totally 
unrelated contexts.

> Even though it looks funny due to unfamiliarity, I'd love to see the 
> results of a teaching language that used notation like:
> 
> 3 + x -> y
> len(alist) -> n
> Widget(1, 2, 3).magic -> obj
> etc.
> 
> for assignment. My prediction is that it would be easier to learn, and 
> just as good for experienced coders.

This really isn't new at all.  Reverse the arrow and the relationship to 
get::

	y <- x + 3

(and use a real arrow rather than ASCII) and that's assignment in APL 
and a common representation in pseudocode ever since.  Change it to := 
and that's what Pascal used, as well as quite a few mathematical papers 
dealing with iterative computations, I might add.

Once you get past the point of realizing that you really need to make a 
distinction between assignment and equality testing, then it's just a 
matter of choosing two different operators for the job.  Whether it's 
<-/= or :=/= or =/== or ->/= (with reversed behavior for assignment) is 
really academic and a matter of taste at that point.

Given the history of programming languages, it doesn't really look like 
the to-be-assigned variable being at the end of expression is going to 
get much play, since not a single major one I'm familiar with does it 
that way, and a lot of them have come up with the same convention 
independently and haven't seen a need to change.

-- 
Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
  San Jose, CA, USA && 37 18 N 121 57 W && AIM/Y!M/Skype erikmaxfrancis
   Get there first with the most men.
    -- Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest, 1821-1877


From max at alcyone.com  Sun Aug 16 04:48:15 2009
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 01:48:15 -0700
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in
	string literals]
In-Reply-To: <74a3f562-6209-485e-9fbb-145ec00c331c@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	
	
	<5fcd454d-14b4-452b-91d3-938e9fa0bd18@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<02975ce6$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<029783cd$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<0297b230$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<74a3f562-6209-485e-9fbb-145ec00c331c@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Douglas Alan wrote:
> Personally, my favorite is Lisp, which looks like
> 
>    (set! y (+ y 1))

For varying values of "Lisp."  `set!` is Scheme.

-- 
Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
  San Jose, CA, USA && 37 18 N 121 57 W && AIM/Y!M/Skype erikmaxfrancis
   Get there first with the most men.
    -- Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest, 1821-1877


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Sun Aug 16 05:25:02 2009
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 16 Aug 2009 09:25:02 GMT
Subject: ignored test cases in unittest
References: 
	<873a7so66v.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: 

Ben Finney  wrote:

> Terry  writes:
> 
>> It seemed the to me that python unittest module does not support the
>> counting of ignored test cases directly. Is there any ready solution
>> for this?
> 
> One solution I've seen involves:
> 
> * a custom exception class, ???TestSkipped???
> 
> * raising that exception at the top of test cases you want to
>   temporarily skip
> 
> * a custom ???TestResult??? class that knows about a ???skipped??? result
> 
> * a custom reporter class that knows how you want to report that result
> 

I'd add to that a decorator so you can quickly mark a test case as ignored 
without editing the test itself. Also you could include a reason why it is 
ignored:

 @ignore("This test takes too long to run")
 def test_foo(self):
    ...

That also means you can redefine the decorator easily if you want to try 
running all the ignored tests.

Another decorator useful here is one that asserts that the test will fail. 
If the test passes then maybe someone fixed whatever was making it fail and 
if so you want to consider re-enabling it.

 @fails("Needs the frobnozz module to be updated")
 def test_whotsit(self):
    ...


From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 05:31:55 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 02:31:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in 
	string literals]
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> 
	
	
	 
	
	<5fcd454d-14b4-452b-91d3-938e9fa0bd18@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<02975ce6$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<029783cd$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	 
	<0297b230$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<74a3f562-6209-485e-9fbb-145ec00c331c@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <523a62c0-2c5f-4027-944a-7edb0d4693d8@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 16, 4:48?am, Erik Max Francis  wrote:
> Douglas Alan wrote:
> > Personally, my favorite is Lisp, which looks like
>
> > ? ?(set! y (+ y 1))
>
> For varying values of "Lisp." ?`set!` is Scheme.

Yes, I'm well aware!

There are probably as many different dialects of Lisp as all other
programming languages put together.

|>ouglas


From terry.yinzhe at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 05:38:20 2009
From: terry.yinzhe at gmail.com (Terry)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 02:38:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ignored test cases in unittest
References: 
	<873a7so66v.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
Message-ID: <56527679-4cec-49a1-9b46-c38de8f981c8@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 16, 5:25?pm, Duncan Booth  wrote:
> Ben Finney  wrote:
> > Terry  writes:
>
> >> It seemed the to me that python unittest module does not support the
> >> counting of ignored test cases directly. Is there any ready solution
> >> for this?
>
> > One solution I've seen involves:
>
> > * a custom exception class, ?TestSkipped?
>
> > * raising that exception at the top of test cases you want to
> > ? temporarily skip
>
> > * a custom ?TestResult? class that knows about a ?skipped? result
>
> > * a custom reporter class that knows how you want to report that result
>
> I'd add to that a decorator so you can quickly mark a test case as ignored
> without editing the test itself. Also you could include a reason why it is
> ignored:
>
> ?@ignore("This test takes too long to run")
> ?def test_foo(self):
> ? ? ...
>
> That also means you can redefine the decorator easily if you want to try
> running all the ignored tests.
>
> Another decorator useful here is one that asserts that the test will fail.
> If the test passes then maybe someone fixed whatever was making it fail and
> if so you want to consider re-enabling it.
>
> ?@fails("Needs the frobnozz module to be updated")
> ?def test_whotsit(self):
> ? ? ...

Thanks for the solutions. I think the decorator idea is what I'm look
for:-)





From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Aug 16 05:38:50 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 10:38:50 +0100
Subject: What happened to __cmp__() in Python 3.x?
In-Reply-To: <50697b2c0908160107k6f31141dt5143071d0ff54c71@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2d56febf0908150509k1b6a3b98j7e76ae6596108280@mail.gmail.com>	
	<50697b2c0908160107k6f31141dt5143071d0ff54c71@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

Chris Rebert wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 1:06 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
>> Xavier Ho wrote:
>>> Hey all,
>>>
>>> I've recently made my way to Python 3.1 and I'm not seeing __cmp__() in
>>> the
>>> documentation.
>>>
>>> Is there a substitution for this special method in 3.1, or do I really
>>> have
>>> to define all six rich comparison methods to work it out?
>>>
>>> If this question has already been asked somewhere, I apologise in advance.
>>> Already googled around but I didn't find information on this.
>>>
>>> Any replies appreciated.
>>>
>> http://bytes.com/topic/python/answers/844614-python-3-sorting-comparison-function
> 
> That seems to be about the built-in function cmp(). The OP was asking
> about the special method __cmp__ and the related rich comparison
> special methods (__eq__, __lt__, etc).
> 
> Cheers,
> Chris
Blast, I posted the wrong flaming link, sorry everybody.

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From contact at xavierho.com  Sun Aug 16 05:45:42 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 19:45:42 +1000
Subject: What happened to __cmp__() in Python 3.x?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <2d56febf0908150509k1b6a3b98j7e76ae6596108280@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<50697b2c0908160107k6f31141dt5143071d0ff54c71@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908160245i5fd0d9f2kba74d112f0826932@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 7:38 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:

>
> Blast, I posted the wrong flaming link, sorry everybody.
>

No, don't be sorry. I found your link very informative, and while it's a
little mixed, it could be useful.

I'm really looking for a way to set up Python classes' natural ordering for
sorting purposes. For example, every object of a class could own an
attribute called 'Value'. If I could get Python to sort() a list of classes
with that value, would the key=value parameter work, and is there a better
way than to redefine 3 or more of the rich comparison special methods, etc.

Also, I noticed heapq (the priority queue/heap queue module) doesn't use the
natural sorting order like sorted() does. Just saying. Could someone give it
a try?

Regards,

Ching-Yun "Xavier" Ho, Technical Artist

Contact Information
Mobile: (+61) 04 3335 4748
Skype ID: SpaXe85
Email: contact at xavierho.com
Website: http://xavierho.com/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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From gregor.lingl at aon.at  Sun Aug 16 05:46:19 2009
From: gregor.lingl at aon.at (Gregor Lingl)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 11:46:19 +0200
Subject: Splitting a string into substrings of equal size
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4a85ffe2$0$24643$426a34cc@news.free.fr>	<4a87036a$0$2292$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>
	
Message-ID: <4a87d56b$0$1540$91cee783@newsreader04.highway.telekom.at>

Mark Tolonen schrieb:
> 
> "Gregor Lingl"  wrote in message 
> news:4a87036a$0$2292$91cee783 at newsreader02.highway.telekom.at...
>> Emile van Sebille schrieb:
>>> On 8/14/2009 5:22 PM candide said...
>> ...
>>>> What is the pythonic way to do this ?
>>>
>>> I like list comps...
>>>
>>>  >>> jj = '1234567890123456789'
>>>  >>> ",".join([jj[ii:ii+3] for ii in range(0,len(jj),3)])
>>> '123,456,789,012,345,678,9'
>>>  >>>
>>>
>>> Emile
>>>
>>
>> Less beautiful but more correct:
>>
>> >>> ",".join([jj[max(ii-3,0):ii] for ii in
>>                              range(len(jj)%3,len(jj)+3,3)])
>> '1,234,567,890,123,456,789'
>>
>> Gregor
> 
> Is it?
> 
>>>> jj = '234567890123456789'
>>>> ",".join([jj[max(ii-3,0):ii] for ii in range(len(jj)%3,len(jj)+3,3)])
> ',234,567,890,123,456,789'

Schluck!

Even more ugly:

  ",".join([jj[max(ii-3,0):ii] for ii in
                                range(len(jj)%3,len(jj)+3,3)]).strip(",")
'234,567,890,123,456,789'

Gregor

> 
> At least one other solution in this thread had the same problem.
> 
> -Mark
> 
> 


From terry.yinzhe at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 05:47:42 2009
From: terry.yinzhe at gmail.com (Terry)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 02:47:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: flatten a list of list
Message-ID: <9c972b02-3c30-4fad-95bd-cf6165913d6b@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

Is there a simple way (the pythonic way) to flatten a list of list?
rather than my current solution:

new_list=[]
for l in list_of_list:
    new_list.extend(l)

or,

new_list=reduce(lambda x,y:x.extend(y), list_of_list)

br, Terry


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sun Aug 16 05:55:48 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 05:55:48 -0400
Subject: flatten a list of list
In-Reply-To: <9c972b02-3c30-4fad-95bd-cf6165913d6b@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <9c972b02-3c30-4fad-95bd-cf6165913d6b@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908160255v10bfa290jd7ca1ea8635eadbb@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 5:47 AM, Terry wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Is there a simple way (the pythonic way) to flatten a list of list?
> rather than my current solution:
>
> new_list=[]
> for l in list_of_list:
> ? ?new_list.extend(l)
>
> or,
>
> new_list=reduce(lambda x,y:x.extend(y), list_of_list)

#only marginally better:
from operator import add
new_list = reduce(add, list_of_list)

#from the itertools recipes:
from itertools import chain
def flatten(listOfLists):
    return list(chain.from_iterable(listOfLists))

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From foetsch at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 16 06:03:53 2009
From: foetsch at yahoo.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_F=F6tsch?=)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 12:03:53 +0200
Subject: flatten a list of list
In-Reply-To: <9c972b02-3c30-4fad-95bd-cf6165913d6b@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <9c972b02-3c30-4fad-95bd-cf6165913d6b@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A87D989.2030508@yahoo.com>

Terry wrote:
> Is there a simple way (the pythonic way) to flatten a list of list?

This is probably the shortest it can get:

sum(list_of_lists, [])


Kind Regards,
M.F.


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Aug 16 06:18:11 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 16 Aug 2009 10:18:11 GMT
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in 
	string literals]
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	
	
	<5fcd454d-14b4-452b-91d3-938e9fa0bd18@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<02975ce6$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<029783cd$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<0297b230$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<74a3f562-6209-485e-9fbb-145ec00c331c@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0297cd31$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 01:41:41 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:

> I like to be able to read everything from left to right, and Lisp does
> that more than any other programming language.
> 
> I would definitely not like a language that obscures assignment by
> moving it over to the right side of lines.

One could argue that left-assigned-from-right assignment obscures the 
most important part of the assignment, namely *what* you're assigning, in 
favour of what you're assigning *to*.

In any case, after half a century of left-from-right assignment, I think 
it's worth the experiment in a teaching language or three to try it the 
other way. The closest to this I know of is the family of languages 
derived from Apple's Hypertalk, where you do assignment with:

put somevalue into name

(Doesn't COBOL do something similar?)

Beginners found that *very* easy to understand, and it didn't seem to 
make coding harder for experienced Hypercard developers.



-- 
Steven


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Sun Aug 16 06:19:51 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 03:19:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: wxFormBuilder finally supports wxPython
Message-ID: 

Version 3.1 of wxFormBuilder can generate wxPython code. I have
previously used wxFormBuilder to generate XRC files for my wxPython
projects. Though still in beta, this might be even better. :-)


http://wxformbuilder.org/


From mail at johannes-janssen.de  Sun Aug 16 06:25:46 2009
From: mail at johannes-janssen.de (Johannes Janssen)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 12:25:46 +0200
Subject: How to find out in which module an instance of a class is created?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4A7F4874.8030008@johannes-janssen.de>	<4A7F6016.2060408@cheimes.de>
	<4A80967F.9030604@johannes-janssen.de>
	
Message-ID: <4A87DEAA.3020309@johannes-janssen.de>

Gabriel Genellina schrieb:
> The try/except around sys._getframe(1) is because that function is not 
> mandatory/available on all Python implementations (that's the case for 
> jython which doesn't provide it).

Thanks, shouldn't such information be part of the python documentation 
of sys._getframe() 
(http://docs.python.org/library/sys.html?highlight=sys._getframe#sys._getframe)?

Johannes


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sun Aug 16 06:30:54 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 06:30:54 -0400
Subject: How to find out in which module an instance of a class is 
	created?
In-Reply-To: <4A87DEAA.3020309@johannes-janssen.de>
References: <4A7F4874.8030008@johannes-janssen.de>
	<4A7F6016.2060408@cheimes.de> <4A80967F.9030604@johannes-janssen.de>
	
	<4A87DEAA.3020309@johannes-janssen.de>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908160330p43397ac7g86d7e9010cb90d25@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 6:25 AM, Johannes
Janssen wrote:
> Gabriel Genellina schrieb:
>>
>> The try/except around sys._getframe(1) is because that function is not
>> mandatory/available on all Python implementations (that's the case for
>> jython which doesn't provide it).
>
> Thanks, shouldn't such information be part of the python documentation of
> sys._getframe()
> (http://docs.python.org/library/sys.html?highlight=sys._getframe#sys._getframe)?

The leading underscore kinda indirectly implies it, but yeah, it's
worth mentioning.
File a bug in the docs: http://bugs.python.org/

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Aug 16 06:49:59 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 16 Aug 2009 10:49:59 GMT
Subject: flatten a list of list
References: <9c972b02-3c30-4fad-95bd-cf6165913d6b@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <0297d4a6$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 05:55:48 -0400, Chris Rebert wrote:

> On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 5:47 AM, Terry wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Is there a simple way (the pythonic way) to flatten a list of list?
>> rather than my current solution:
>>
>> new_list=[]
>> for l in list_of_list:
>> ? ?new_list.extend(l)
>>
>> or,
>>
>> new_list=reduce(lambda x,y:x.extend(y), list_of_list)
> 
> #only marginally better:
> from operator import add
> new_list = reduce(add, list_of_list)

Surely that's going to be O(N**2)?

I'd predict that would perform even worse than O(N**2) string 
concatenation, on account that a string of size N has to allocate space 
for N bytes, but a list of size N allocates space for N pointers (each 4 
bytes, or 8 depending on the system), rounded up to the nearest power of 
two. Also CPython can optimize string concatenation to O(N) under some 
circumstances, but not lists.


>>> from timeit import Timer
>>> setup = """\\
... L = [ ([None]*5000) for x in xrange(%d) ]
... from operator import add
... """
>>> Timer("reduce(add, L)", setup % 4).repeat(number=1000)
[0.53808808326721191, 0.51404905319213867, 0.51157188415527344]
>>> Timer("reduce(add, L)", setup % 8).repeat(number=1000)
[2.1178171634674072, 3.8830602169036865, 4.72245192527771]
>>> Timer("reduce(add, L)", setup % 16).repeat(number=1000)
[17.190337896347046, 21.572744131088257, 21.584265947341919]


Looks like O(N**2) behaviour to me.



-- 
Steven


From mail at johannes-janssen.de  Sun Aug 16 06:50:27 2009
From: mail at johannes-janssen.de (Johannes Janssen)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 12:50:27 +0200
Subject: How to find out in which module an instance of a class is created?
In-Reply-To: <50697b2c0908160330p43397ac7g86d7e9010cb90d25@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4A7F4874.8030008@johannes-janssen.de>	
	<4A7F6016.2060408@cheimes.de>
	<4A80967F.9030604@johannes-janssen.de>	
		
	<4A87DEAA.3020309@johannes-janssen.de>
	<50697b2c0908160330p43397ac7g86d7e9010cb90d25@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A87E473.7010606@johannes-janssen.de>

Chris Rebert schrieb:
> On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 6:25 AM, Johannes
> Janssen wrote:
>   
>> Gabriel Genellina schrieb:
>>     
>>> The try/except around sys._getframe(1) is because that function is not
>>> mandatory/available on all Python implementations (that's the case for
>>> jython which doesn't provide it).
>>>       
>> Thanks, shouldn't such information be part of the python documentation of
>> sys._getframe()
>> (http://docs.python.org/library/sys.html?highlight=sys._getframe#sys._getframe)?
>>     
>
> The leading underscore kinda indirectly implies it, but yeah, it's
> worth mentioning.
> File a bug in the docs: http://bugs.python.org/
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
>   
I filed a bug: http://bugs.python.org/issue6712 .

Johannes


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sun Aug 16 06:59:52 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 06:59:52 -0400
Subject: flatten a list of list
In-Reply-To: <0297d4a6$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <9c972b02-3c30-4fad-95bd-cf6165913d6b@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<0297d4a6$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908160359u6c8cb593r627651a80017394e@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 6:49 AM, Steven
D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 05:55:48 -0400, Chris Rebert wrote:
>> On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 5:47 AM, Terry wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Is there a simple way (the pythonic way) to flatten a list of list?
>>> rather than my current solution:
>>>
>>> new_list=[]
>>> for l in list_of_list:
>>> ? ?new_list.extend(l)
>>>
>>> or,
>>>
>>> new_list=reduce(lambda x,y:x.extend(y), list_of_list)
>>
>> #only marginally better:
>> from operator import add
>> new_list = reduce(add, list_of_list)
>
> Surely that's going to be O(N**2)?

The OP asked for "simple", not "best", "most proper", or "fastest". My
comment was intended to mean that the code was marginally *simpler*,
not faster.

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Aug 16 07:08:09 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 16 Aug 2009 11:08:09 GMT
Subject: flatten a list of list
References: <9c972b02-3c30-4fad-95bd-cf6165913d6b@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <0297d8e8$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 12:03:53 +0200, Michael F?tsch wrote:

> Terry wrote:
>> Is there a simple way (the pythonic way) to flatten a list of list?
> 
> This is probably the shortest it can get:
> 
> sum(list_of_lists, [])


That's also O(N**2).


>>> from timeit import Timer
>>> setup = "L = [ ([None]*5000) for x in xrange(%d) ]"
>>> Timer("sum(L, [])", setup % 4).repeat(number=1000)
[0.6070549488067627, 0.54354715347290039, 0.54686999320983887]
>>> Timer("sum(L, [])", setup % 8).repeat(number=1000)
[2.1285719871520996, 3.6722278594970703, 4.0785009860992432]
>>> Timer("sum(L, [])", setup % 16).repeat(number=1000)
[18.370341062545776, 20.40509295463562, 21.871708869934082]



-- 
Steven


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Sun Aug 16 07:15:06 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 13:15:06 +0200
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a Serial
	port? - conclusions
In-Reply-To: <4a87a444$0$1627$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
References: 
	
	<4a87a444$0$1627$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <200908161315.07229.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Sunday 16 August 2009 08:20:34 John Nagle wrote:
> Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:
> > On Saturday 15 August 2009 14:40:35 Michael Str?der wrote:
> >> Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:
> >>> In the past, on this  group, I have made statements that said that on
> >>> Linux, the serial port handling somehow does not allow transmitting and
> >>> receiving at the same time, and nobody contradicted me.
>
>      Absolutely false.

No its true, if you open the serial port  with the standard open() instead of 
os.open().  And it is also true that I was not contradicted in the past. :-)

>
> >> Despite all the good comments here by other skilled people I'd recommend
> >> to determine whether the transmission line to the devices accessed
> >> support full duplex.
>
>      All standard PC serial ports are full-duplex devices.
>
I know this, and I started the thread because they would not work full duplex 
for me.

8< -------------------- pyserial baudot program  link -----------------------

> > You raise a good point, that is probably not well known amongst the
> > youngsters here, as simple serial multidropping has gone out of fashion.
>
>      Actually, no.  Dynamixel servos as used on the latest Bioloid robots
> are multidrop serial RS-485.  But outside the embedded world, nobody uses
> that stuff any more.  (Embedded is going Ethernet; it's overkill but
> works fine and is now cheap.)

Exactly - it is no longer part of mainstream fashion. We also still use RS-485 
because it is cheaper, and we have better control over timing.

I enclose two naive test implementations.
To run them you will need a loopback connector.
One can be made by shorting pin 2 and 3 together on the standard DB9.

The results are illuminating - on my development machine, (dual 64 bit, some 
gigs), the last lines look like this:

test.py:
The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog 1023
That took 3.91238284111 seconds - 3.82068636827 Millisecs per record, 
261.733077152 recs per sec
hvr at Linuxbox:~/dos/JOBS/sms/lib>
   
test1.py:
The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog 1023
That took 3.90402388573 seconds - 3.81252332591 Millisecs per record, 
262.293477185 recs per sec
hvr at Linuxbox:~/dos/JOBS/sms/lib>   

Almost no difference between the two implementations.
This is basically because there is enough processing power to keep the link 
running at full speed in both instances.

On the eBox, (486, 400MHz, 128Mb, no FP), the difference is startling:

test.py:
The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog 1023
That took 69.2863521576 seconds - 67.6624532789 Millisecs per record, 
14.7792453797 recs per sec
root at ebox:/home/user/sms/lib# 

About eighteen times slower than the development machine.

test1.py:
The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog 1023
That took 10.391780138 seconds - 10.148222791 Millisecs per record, 
98.5394211964 recs per sec
root at ebox:/home/user/sms/lib# 

Less than three times slower than the development machine.

The little processor + Slackware + python cannot keep the link busy.
Python, as a character handler, well let us say that it is suboptimal,
because saying that something sucks, sucks.
An almost seven times ratio between the implementations is not to be sneezed 
at.

So the conclusions I have come to are the following:

1)  Thou shalt not use ordinary python files for serial ports, on pain of 
death.
2)  Thou shalt strive mightily to minimize python calls, doing all in thy        
power to move away from character input to string input.
3)  Thou shalt expend real treasure for real processing power as there is no 
such thing as a free lunch.

I would like to thank everybody who took the trouble to respond to teach me 
the error of my ways.

- Hendrik

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From subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 07:19:06 2009
From: subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com (joy99)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 04:19:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Problem Regarding Handling of Unicode string
References: <9ac0e194-9e25-468a-9807-957ef3142dd3@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<47b265c5-e71f-4018-815a-0bfbea927a4a@y28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 11, 1:17?pm, John Machin  wrote:
> On Aug 10, 9:26?pm, joy99  wrote:
>
> > Dear Group,
>
> > I am using Python26 on WindowsXP with service pack2. My GUI is IDLE.
> > I am using Hindi resources and get nice output like:
> > ??
> > where I can use all the re functions and other functions without doing
> > any transliteration,etc.
> > I was trying to use Bengali but it is giving me output like:
>
> WHAT is giving you this output?
>
> > '\xef\xbb\xbf\xe0\xa6\x85\xe0\xa6\xa8\xe0\xa7\x87\xe0\xa6\x95'
>
> In a very ordinary IDLE session (Win XP SP3, Python 2.6.2, locale:
> Australia/English, no "Hindi resources"):
>
> >>> x = '\xef\xbb\xbf\xe0\xa6\x85\xe0\xa6\xa8\xe0\xa7\x87\xe0\xa6\x95'
> >>> ux = x.decode('utf-8')
> >>> ux
>
> u'\ufeff\u0985\u09a8\u09c7\u0995'>>> print ux
>
> ????? # looks like what you wanted; please confirm>>> import unicodedata
> >>> for c in ux:
>
> ? ? ? ? print unicodedata.name(c)
>
> ZERO WIDTH NO-BREAK SPACE # this is a BOM
> BENGALI LETTER A
> BENGALI LETTER NA
> BENGALI VOWEL SIGN E
> BENGALI LETTER KA
>
>
>
> > I wanted to see Bengali output as
> > ????
> > and I like to use all functions including re.
> > If any one can help me on that.
>
> "I am using Hindi resources" doesn't tell us much ... except to prompt
> the comment that perhaps if you want to display Bengali script, you
> may need Bengali resources. However it looks like I can display your
> Bengali data without any special resources.
>
> It seems like you are not doing the same with Bengali as you are doing
> with Hindi. We can't help you very much if you don't show exactly what
> you are doing.
>
> Have you considered asking in an Indian Python forum? Note: you will
> still need to say what you are doing that works with Hindi but not
> with Bengali.
>
> Cheers,
> John

Dear Group,
I have already worked out my solution but everyone of yours' answers
helped me to see different solutions from different angles. Thank you
for the same. I am building some social network program in Bengali. I
just gave the transliteration problem which was giving me problem, I
thought as you are very expert pythoners so it would be minutes'
matter. By your answers I saw I was not wrong. But as I solved the
problem so I checked it bit late. Sorry for the same.
Best Regards,
Subhabrata.


From terry.yinzhe at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 07:22:00 2009
From: terry.yinzhe at gmail.com (Terry)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 04:22:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: flatten a list of list
References: <9c972b02-3c30-4fad-95bd-cf6165913d6b@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<0297d4a6$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 16, 6:59?pm, Chris Rebert  wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 6:49 AM, Steven
>
>
>
>
>
> D'Aprano wrote:
> > On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 05:55:48 -0400, Chris Rebert wrote:
> >> On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 5:47 AM, Terry wrote:
> >>> Hi,
>
> >>> Is there a simple way (the pythonic way) to flatten a list of list?
> >>> rather than my current solution:
>
> >>> new_list=[]
> >>> for l in list_of_list:
> >>> ? ?new_list.extend(l)
>
> >>> or,
>
> >>> new_list=reduce(lambda x,y:x.extend(y), list_of_list)
>
> >> #only marginally better:
> >> from operator import add
> >> new_list = reduce(add, list_of_list)
>
> > Surely that's going to be O(N**2)?
>
> The OP asked for "simple", not "best", "most proper", or "fastest". My
> comment was intended to mean that the code was marginally *simpler*,
> not faster.
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --http://blog.rebertia.com

Well, if possible, I'd like not only to know a simple solution, but
also the 'best', the 'most proper' and the 'fastest':-)

If they are not the same.

br, Terry


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Aug 16 07:25:53 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 16 Aug 2009 11:25:53 GMT
Subject: flatten a list of list
References: <9c972b02-3c30-4fad-95bd-cf6165913d6b@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0297dd0f$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 02:47:42 -0700, Terry wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Is there a simple way (the pythonic way) to flatten a list of list?
> rather than my current solution:
> 
> new_list=[]
> for l in list_of_list:
>     new_list.extend(l)

I don't think that scales terribly well. In my testing, it performs about 
as badly as the O(N**2) behaviours others have suggested (using sum or 
reduce with add) -- perhaps a bit worse for small N, but not quite as 
badly for large N.


> new_list=reduce(lambda x,y:x.extend(y), list_of_list)

That doesn't even work.

>>> list_of_list = [ [1,2,3], [2, 4, 8] ]
>>> new_list=reduce(lambda x,y:x.extend(y), list_of_list)
>>> new_list is None
True



Chris' suggestion using itertools seems pretty good:

>>> from timeit import Timer
>>> setup = """\\
... L = [ [None]*5000 for _ in xrange(%d) ]
... from itertools import chain
... """
>>> Timer("list(chain.from_iterable(L))", setup % 4).repeat(number=1000)
[0.61839914321899414, 0.61799716949462891, 0.62065696716308594]
>>> Timer("list(chain.from_iterable(L))", setup % 8).repeat(number=1000)
[1.2618398666381836, 1.3385050296783447, 3.9113419055938721]
>>> Timer("list(chain.from_iterable(L))", setup % 16).repeat(number=1000)
[3.1349358558654785, 4.8554730415344238, 5.4319999217987061]


-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Aug 16 07:31:57 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 16 Aug 2009 11:31:57 GMT
Subject: flatten a list of list
References: <9c972b02-3c30-4fad-95bd-cf6165913d6b@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<0297d4a6$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <0297de7c$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 06:59:52 -0400, Chris Rebert wrote:

>> Surely that's going to be O(N**2)?
> 
> The OP asked for "simple", not "best", "most proper", or "fastest". My
> comment was intended to mean that the code was marginally *simpler*, not
> faster.

Fair enough, but he also asked for Pythonic, and while some people might 
argue that "terrible performance" is Pythonic, I hope you wouldn't be one 
of them! :)

If it soothes your ruffled sense of honour *wink*, I think your solution 
with itertools.chain is probably the best so far.


-- 
Steven


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Aug 16 07:39:40 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 20:39:40 +0900
Subject: What happened to __cmp__() in Python 3.x?
In-Reply-To: <2d56febf0908160245i5fd0d9f2kba74d112f0826932@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2d56febf0908150509k1b6a3b98j7e76ae6596108280@mail.gmail.com>		<50697b2c0908160107k6f31141dt5143071d0ff54c71@mail.gmail.com>	
	<2d56febf0908160245i5fd0d9f2kba74d112f0826932@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

Xavier Ho wrote:

> I'm really looking for a way to set up Python classes' natural ordering 
> for sorting purposes.

I believe __lt__ (<) is the only method (operator) used by both .sort 
and heap module.



From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Sun Aug 16 07:42:14 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 13:42:14 +0200
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in
	string literals]
In-Reply-To: <0297cd31$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<74a3f562-6209-485e-9fbb-145ec00c331c@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<0297cd31$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <200908161342.14612.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Sunday 16 August 2009 12:18:11 Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> In any case, after half a century of left-from-right assignment, I think
> it's worth the experiment in a teaching language or three to try it the
> other way. The closest to this I know of is the family of languages
> derived from Apple's Hypertalk, where you do assignment with:
>
> put somevalue into name
>
> (Doesn't COBOL do something similar?)

Yup.

move banana to pineapple.

move accountnum in inrec to accountnum in outrec.

move corresponding inrec to outrec.

It should all be upper case of course...

I cannot quite recall, but I have the feeling that in the second  form, "of" 
was also allowed instead of "in", but it has been a while now so I am 
probably wrong.

The move was powerful - it would do conversions for you based on the types of 
the operands - it all "just worked".

- Hendrik


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sun Aug 16 07:43:00 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 07:43:00 -0400
Subject: flatten a list of list
In-Reply-To: <0297de7c$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <9c972b02-3c30-4fad-95bd-cf6165913d6b@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<0297d4a6$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<0297de7c$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908160443j1608f14dsb9ec1b7f39bd6410@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 7:31 AM, Steven
D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 06:59:52 -0400, Chris Rebert wrote:
>>> Surely that's going to be O(N**2)?
>>
>> The OP asked for "simple", not "best", "most proper", or "fastest". My
>> comment was intended to mean that the code was marginally *simpler*, not
>> faster.
>
> Fair enough, but he also asked for Pythonic, and while some people might
> argue that "terrible performance" is Pythonic, I hope you wouldn't be one
> of them! :)

Indeed not. :) I expected it would be worse performance-wise than the
OP's original due to all the intermediate lists that get produced; it
shouldn't be used in optimized production code.

> If it soothes your ruffled sense of honour *wink*, I think your solution
> with itertools.chain is probably the best so far.

Except it's not really my solution, it's whoever put it in the
itertools docs's. :(
But I'm glad to been able to help by pointing the recipe out. :-)

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Aug 16 07:49:16 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 12:49:16 +0100
Subject: What happened to __cmp__() in Python 3.x?
In-Reply-To: <50697b2c0908160104k7d74ace9jda8f4b927402942@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2d56febf0908150509k1b6a3b98j7e76ae6596108280@mail.gmail.com>
	<50697b2c0908160104k7d74ace9jda8f4b927402942@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

Chris Rebert wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 8:09 AM, Xavier Ho wrote:
>> Hey all,
>>
>> I've recently made my way to Python 3.1 and I'm not seeing __cmp__() in the
>> documentation.
>>
>> Is there a substitution for this special method in 3.1, or do I really have
>> to define all six rich comparison methods to work it out?
> 
> I don't think so. Quoting
> http://docs.python.org/dev/py3k/reference/datamodel.html
> 
> "There are no swapped-argument versions of [the comparison] methods
> (to be used when the left argument does not support the operation but
> the right argument does); rather, __lt__() and __gt__() are each
> other?s reflection, __le__() and __ge__() are each other?s reflection,
> and __eq__() and __ne__() are their own reflection."
> 
> I believe this means you only need to define one method from each of
> the following pairs to get all the operators working:
> * __eq__ or __ne__
> * __lt__ or __gt__
> * __ge__ or __le__
> 
> Cheers,
> Chris
Unfortunately I don't think it's that easy, see.
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2008-November/688761.html
The issue referenced is still open.  This of course assumes that I've 
posted the correct link this time!

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From contact at xavierho.com  Sun Aug 16 07:58:35 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 21:58:35 +1000
Subject: What happened to __cmp__() in Python 3.x?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <2d56febf0908150509k1b6a3b98j7e76ae6596108280@mail.gmail.com>
	<50697b2c0908160104k7d74ace9jda8f4b927402942@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908160458k3b5197d8tf1a69e3083ab3146@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 9:49 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:

>
> Unfortunately I don't think it's that easy, see.
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2008-November/688761.html
> The issue referenced is still open.  This of course assumes that I've
> posted the correct link this time!
>

I'm not sure what you're referring to here. The link brought me to about
__ne__ being automatically determined when __eq__ is defined. Although it is
a rich comparison special method, it doesn't entirely cover the usefulness
of __cmp__().

Terry: I'll give that a test tomorrow and see what I can come up with.
Thanks for the quick info.

Regards,

Ching-Yun "Xavier" Ho, Technical Artist

Contact Information
Mobile: (+61) 04 3335 4748
Skype ID: SpaXe85
Email: contact at xavierho.com
Website: http://xavierho.com/
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From luke.leighton at googlemail.com  Sun Aug 16 08:08:39 2009
From: luke.leighton at googlemail.com (lkcl)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 05:08:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: platform-specific overrides of functions and class methods (expanding
	on imputils demo code)
Message-ID: 

i've just had to put something together for pyjamas-desktop which may
prove to be useful to other people, so i'm pointing people in its
general direction, for archive purposes.

the purpose behind the platform override system is to allow
implementations of a common API, in python, to share the majority of
their codebase (modules, classes, functions etc.) _but_, for _very_
specific platform implementation purposes, allow for "overrides".

example:

test.py
def test():
   print "hello"

platform/testOverridingPlatformName.py:
def test():
   print "this is not kansas any more"

code is here:
http://pyjamas.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/pyjamas/trunk/pyjd/

modules to pay attention to: importers.py (a modified version of Demos/
imputils/importers.py) and modcompile.py.  setup/init function is very
simple - see __init__py.in last few lines.

on reading modcompile.py you may be forgiven for going "wtf????" but
basically PlatformParser loads the python source; turns it into an
AST; then also the "platform-specific" version is loaded and turned
into an AST; then, the two ASTs are handed to the "merge" function
which does a top-level "replace" of functions and a top-level
"replace" of class methods.

_theen_ the resultant "merged" AST is handed to a module which was
derived from compiler/pycodegen.py - none of the code in there can
cope with being handed an already-compiled AST so it was necessary to
make a class that did.  looking around on the internet i find quite a
few people asking about how to do this, so ... take a look at
modcompile.Module, and how it's used.  very simple.

i've disabled saving and detection of .pyc files for now, because the
job of loading code from .pyc should really be done by PlatformParser
(which understands the concept of... duh, a platform).   the _last_
thing that you want to happen is to run one platform's code, generate
some .pyc files, then change a config file to run a different back-end
platform, for example (which is possible with pyjamas-desktop) and end
up running the _wrong_ platform-specific code.

for those people wondering, "why in god's green earth would anyone
want to _do_ such a thing???" it's quite simple: the alternative is a
complete dog's dinner, in pyjamas:

def do_some_DOM_manipulation(document):
    # heeeere we go...
    if platform == 'hulahop' # this is for XULrunner
       do_some_stuff()
    elif platform == 'pywebkitgtk':
       do_something_different()
    elif platform == 'mshtml' # for pywin32 and comtypes....
       do_something_dreadful()
    else:
       do_the_default_here()

now imagine that across an API with ... four hundred functions.

i just... couldn't bring myself to do that.  not when the pyjs (python-
to-javascript) compiler _already_ solved this problem (thanks to james
tauber) by deploying the AST merge concept.

all i did was merge that with the imputils demo code so that, rather
than at compile-time the pyjs compiler goes and generates five
platform-specific versions of the same application, pyjamas-desktop at
_run_ time can do exactly the same thing.

but - it's a generic enough idea to be of value elsewhere - for
example, all the loooovely code in e.g. the setup distutils?  all
those looovely "if os.platform == 'win32'", and "if sys.this = 'posix'
" could be replaced with platform-specific overrides that got merged
at run-time, thus _dramatically_ simplifying the look and the
useability of the code.

enjoy.

l.


From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Sun Aug 16 08:24:36 2009
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (Bearophile)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 05:24:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: flatten a list of list
References: <9c972b02-3c30-4fad-95bd-cf6165913d6b@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<0297d4a6$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> 
	
Message-ID: <218b0a2e-ed83-4675-9942-6297048a4676@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

Chris Rebert:
> The OP asked for "simple", not "best", "most proper", or "fastest". My
> comment was intended to mean that the code was marginally *simpler*,
> not faster.

Yep, the OP has asked for simple code. But often this is not the right
way to solve this situation. A better way is to create (or copy) a
flatten that's efficient and well tested & debugged, put it into some
library of utilities, and then use import&use it when it's needed.

Bye,
bearophile


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Aug 16 08:33:29 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 13:33:29 +0100
Subject: What happened to __cmp__() in Python 3.x?
In-Reply-To: <2d56febf0908160458k3b5197d8tf1a69e3083ab3146@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2d56febf0908150509k1b6a3b98j7e76ae6596108280@mail.gmail.com>	<50697b2c0908160104k7d74ace9jda8f4b927402942@mail.gmail.com>	
	<2d56febf0908160458k3b5197d8tf1a69e3083ab3146@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

Xavier Ho wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 9:49 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
> 
>> Unfortunately I don't think it's that easy, see.
>> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2008-November/688761.html
>> The issue referenced is still open.  This of course assumes that I've
>> posted the correct link this time!
>>
> 
> I'm not sure what you're referring to here. The link brought me to about
> __ne__ being automatically determined when __eq__ is defined. Although it is
> a rich comparison special method, it doesn't entirely cover the usefulness
> of __cmp__().
> 
> Terry: I'll give that a test tomorrow and see what I can come up with.
> Thanks for the quick info.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Ching-Yun "Xavier" Ho, Technical Artist
> 
> Contact Information
> Mobile: (+61) 04 3335 4748
> Skype ID: SpaXe85
> Email: contact at xavierho.com
> Website: http://xavierho.com/
> 
> 
I wasn't discussing __cmp__, I was referring to the quote by Chris 
Rebert from the Python docs regarding the rich comparison methods, a 
discrepancy between the documentation and the implementation as noted in 
the link that I gave, and an indication that the issue raised on this 
discrepancy is still open.  As Terry Reedy has mentioned __lt__ 
elsewhere, you should be aware of the discrepancy, otherwise you could 
go charging off down the wrong track.  FWIW it was Terry who raised the 
issue 4395, I'm sure that he could explain the ramifications of it all 
far better than I ever could, so I'll sign out.

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sun Aug 16 08:45:22 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 13:45:22 +0100
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in
	string literals]
In-Reply-To: <34dd6e0e-3b47-4761-ad7a-9038b0d36209@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>		<02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
			
		<5fcd454d-14b4-452b-91d3-938e9fa0bd18@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>	<02975ce6$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>		<029783cd$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<34dd6e0e-3b47-4761-ad7a-9038b0d36209@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A87FF62.2020508@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Douglas Alan wrote:
[snip]
> C++ also allows for reading from stdin like so:
> 
>    cin >> myVar;
> 
> I think the direction of the arrows probably derives from languages
> like APL, which had notation something like so:
> 
>      myVar <- 3
>      [] <- myVar
> 
> "<-" was really a little arrow symbol (APL didn't use ascii), and the
> first line above would assign the value 3 to myVar. In the second
> line, the "[]" was really a little box symbol and represented the
> terminal.  Assigning to the box would cause the output to be printed
> on the terminal, so the above would output "3".  If you did this:
> 
>      [] -> myVar
> 
> It would read a value into myVar from the terminal.
> 
> APL predates Unix by quite a few years.
> 
No, APL is strictly right-to-left.

     -> x

means "goto x".

Writing to the console is:

     [] <- myVar

Reading from the console is:

     myVar <- []


From magawake at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 09:25:42 2009
From: magawake at gmail.com (Mag Gam)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 09:25:42 -0400
Subject: unittest
In-Reply-To: 
References: <1cbd6f830908142028v638a4c06jf0f859be712e724c@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <1cbd6f830908160625m5a8ffa9er7e34c203f30fca49@mail.gmail.com>

John:

Well, this is actually a script which wraps around another application. :-)
My goal is when I introduce a new feature I don't want to break old
stuff so instead of me testing manually I want to build a framework of
tests.



On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 11:37 PM, John Haggerty wrote:
> This is an interesting question. I am just wondering: do you really have
> that many features that it would be impossible to just have a shell script
> run specific types of input or tests?
>
> When I did programming in the past for education they just had lists of
> input data and we ran the program against the test data.
>
> I just get slightly confused when "test suites" start to have to apply?
>
> On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 9:28 PM, Mag Gam  wrote:
>>
>> I am writing an application which has many command line arguments.
>> For example: foo.py -args "bar bee"
>>
>> I would like to create a test suit using unittest so when I add
>> features to "foo.py" I don't want to break other things. I just heard
>> about unittest and would love to use it for this type of thing.
>>
>> so my question is, when I do these tests do I have to code them into
>> foo.py? I prefer having a footest.py which will run the regression
>> tests. Any thoughts about this?
>>
>> TIA
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>


From kevin.p.dwyer at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 09:31:19 2009
From: kevin.p.dwyer at gmail.com (Kev Dwyer)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 13:31:19 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: my recursive function call is wrong?
References: <22a413260908160057t2802d3cci70658278e7322eb8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 16:57:41 +0900, Chang Min Jeon wrote:


Hello,

You have placed recursive calls to the function in a number of different 
locations; when len(macro) becomes zero control will return to the 
calling function, but this calling function may have more code to 
execute, including further calls to start_parse(), and further attempts 
to index macro.

I like to keep recursive calls at the end of a function, so that there is 
a clean path back to the top level caller once the terminal condition is 
reached.  You can do it differently, but you need to bear in mind the 
execution paths through your code.

Cheers,

Kev



From emmanuel.surleau at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 09:34:06 2009
From: emmanuel.surleau at gmail.com (Emmanuel Surleau)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 15:34:06 +0200
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
In-Reply-To: <0297b471$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <24980842.post@talk.nabble.com>
	
	<0297b471$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <200908161534.06831.emmanuel.surleau@gmail.com>

> It's a particular unfair criticism because the critic (Ethan Furman)
> appears to have made a knee-jerk reaction. The "some language in Python"
> behaviour he's reacting to is the common idiom:
>
> for i in range(len(seq)):
>     do_something_with(seq[i])
>
>
> instead of the "Python in Python" idiom:
>
> for obj in seq:
>     do_something_with(obj)
>
>
> That's a reasonable criticism, but *not in the case*. Ethan appears to
> have made the knee-jerk reaction "for i in range() is Bad" without
> stopping to think about what this specific piece of code is actually
> doing.
>
> (Replace 'obj' with 'j', 'seq' with 'range(2, n)', and
> 'do_something_with' with 'if (n % j) == 0: return False', and you have
> the exact same code pattern.)

Fair enough. But as far as I know, for i in (x)range(num) is the canonical way 
to iterate over numbers in Python.

Another case of lack of RTFM* before answering, I suppose.

Cheers,

Emm

*Read The Fine Mail


From grante at visi.com  Sun Aug 16 09:55:31 2009
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 08:55:31 -0500
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a Serial
	port?
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-15, Hendrik van Rooyen  wrote:
> On Saturday 15 August 2009 16:25:03 Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>> Are you using python file operations open/read/write or OS
>> file-descriptor operations os.open/os.read/os.write?
>
> The former - that seems to be the source of my trouble.
>
> I have now written a little test that uses serial.Serial and
> it works a treat.

Good to hear.

> I am still confused about pyserial and serial - I found serial
> in my distribution library, (on the SuSe machine, not on the
> 2.5 in Slackware) but I had to download pyserial.

That's very interesting.  Is the pre-existing "serial" a
version of pyserial that the packager had pre-installed or is
it something else?  I didn't know any distributions shipped
Python with pyserial installed.  In either case, "serial" isn't
something that ships with the standard Python library.

> I see that you were the the original author.  Thank you for
> letting this stuff loose in the wild.

My pleasure.

-- 


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Sun Aug 16 09:59:18 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 15:59:18 +0200
Subject: callable virtual method
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4A85798B.6020501@sequans.com>	<4A8587A0.6040008@mrabarnett.plus.com>		<02959b54$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	
	
Message-ID: <4A8810B6.8080204@sequans.com>

Scott David Daniels wrote:
> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>> On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:49:26 +0200, Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>>>
>>>  
>>>> Sorry guys (means guys *and* gals :op ), I realized I've not been able
>>>> to describe precisely what I want to do. I'd like the base class to be
>>>> virtual (aka abstract). However it may be abstract but it does not 
>>>> mean
>>>> it cannot do some usefull stuff.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Here is the schema of my abstract methods :
>>>>
>>>> class Interface(object):
>>>>     def method(self):
>>>>         # ---------------------
>>>>         # some common stuff executed here
>>>>         # ---------------------
>>>>         print 'hello world'
>>>>         # ---------------------
>>>>         # here shall stand child specific stuff (empty in the 
>>>> interface
>>>> method)
>>>>         # ---------------------
>>>>         if self.__class__.method == Interface.method:
>>>>             raise NotImplementedError('You should have read the 
>>>> f******
>>>> manual ! You must override this method.')
>>>>     
>>>
>>>
>>> Okay, so I want to sub-class your Interface class. As you said, the 
>>> methods in the abstract class are still useful, so in my class, I 
>>> don't need any extra functionality for some methods -- I'm happy 
>>> with just the "common stuff". So I use normal OO techniques and 
>>> over-ride just the methods I need to over-ride:
>>>
>>>   
>> Sometimes the base is doing cool stuff but incomplete stuff which 
>> requires knowledge only hold by the sub class. In my case the 
>> interface is a high level interface for a software that can run on 
>> multiple hardware platforms. Only the sub class has knowledge on how 
>> to operate the hardware, but no matter the hardware it still produces 
>> the same effect.
>>
>> Let's say I have 50 different hardwares, I'll have 50 sub classes of 
>> Interface with the 'start' method to define. It wouldn't be 
>> appropriate (OO programming)to write 50 times '_log.debug('Starting 
>> %s' % self)' in each child start method when the simple task of 
>> logging the call can be nicely handled by the base class.
>>
>> In the meantime, I must make sure  the user, who is not a python guru 
>> in this case, has implemented the start method for his hardware, 
>> because only him knows how to effectively start this hardware. I 
>> don't want him to come to me saying, "I got no error, still my 
>> hardware does not start". You can then blame him for not reading the 
>> docs, but it will still be less expensive to throw a nice exception 
>> with an accurate feedback.
>>
>> [snip]
>>> class VerboseGoodChild(Interface):
>>>     # forced to over-ride methods for no good reason
>>>   
>>
>> Definitely no !! This is the purpose of an interface class: to force 
>> people to write these methods. They *are* required, if they were not, 
>> they would not belong to the Interface.
>>
>> JM
>
> But there _is_ one moment when you can check those things, then avoid
> checking thereafter: object creation.  So you can complicate your
> __init__ (or __new__) with those checks that make sure you instantiate
> only fully defined subclasses:
>
> # obviously not tested except in concept:
>
>     class Base(object_or_whatever):
>          def __init__(self, ...):
>              class_ = self.__class__
>              if class_ is Base:
>                  raise TypeError('Attempt to instantiate Base class')
>              for name in 'one two three four':
>                  if getattr(Base, name) is not getattr(Base, name):
>                      raise NotImplementedError(
>                                  '%s implementation missing' % name)
>              ...
>
> --Scott David Daniels
> Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org
That could do the trick, sparing me from writing additional code in each 
methods. Thanks.

JM


From lists at cheimes.de  Sun Aug 16 10:07:13 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 16:07:13 +0200
Subject: callable virtual method
In-Reply-To: <4A8810B6.8080204@sequans.com>
References: <4A85798B.6020501@sequans.com>	<4A8587A0.6040008@mrabarnett.plus.com>		<02959b54$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>		
	<4A8810B6.8080204@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <4A881291.6030805@cheimes.de>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>> Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org
> That could do the trick, sparing me from writing additional code in each 
> methods. Thanks.

Why are you trying to reinvent the wheel? Python's abc module already 
takes care of these details.

Christian


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Sun Aug 16 10:13:46 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 16:13:46 +0200
Subject: callable virtual method
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4A85798B.6020501@sequans.com>	<4A8587A0.6040008@mrabarnett.plus.com>		<7eljaoF2fnkqgU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>	<4A85A233.9030905@sequans.com>	<4A85A47E.308@wiggly.org>	<4A85ACEF.4090901@sequans.com>	<4A85B9F7.4010201@ieee.org>	<4A85D051.2080004@sequans.com>
	
Message-ID: <4A88141A.1030201@sequans.com>

Christian Heimes wrote:
> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>> talking about approaches:
>>
>> 1/
>> class Interface:
>>     def foo(self):
>>        if self.__class__.foo == Interface.foo:
>>           raise NotImplementedError
>>
>> 2/
>> class Interface:
>>     def foo(self):
>>        self._foo()
>>
>>     def _foo(sef):
>>        raise NotImplementedError
>
> Please don't call it an interface when it's really an abstract base 
> class. And abstract base classes are probably the solution the OP is 
> looking for, http://docs.python.org/library/abc.html
>
> Christian
>
Sadly I'm working with python 2.4. Anyway it's good to hear they've 
added ABC support to python, didn't know that. I didn't know there was a 
difference between interface and abstract classes as well. With a little 
bit of googling, I found out that actually Interface classes do not 
provide any implementation.
What I'm looking for is definitely an abstract class.

JM


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Sun Aug 16 10:17:39 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (jean-michel Pichavant)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 16:17:39 +0200
Subject: callable virtual method
In-Reply-To: <4A881291.6030805@cheimes.de>
References: <4A85798B.6020501@sequans.com>	<4A8587A0.6040008@mrabarnett.plus.com>		<02959b54$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>		
	<4A8810B6.8080204@sequans.com> <4A881291.6030805@cheimes.de>
Message-ID: <4A881503.7010202@sequans.com>

Christian Heimes a ?crit :
> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>>> Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org
>> That could do the trick, sparing me from writing additional code in 
>> each methods. Thanks.
>
> Why are you trying to reinvent the wheel? Python's abc module already 
> takes care of these details.
>
> Christian
I'm working with python 2.4 and don't plan to change. The abc module 
would have been exactly what I was looking for. I'll keep it mind if I 
ever upgrade to python 2.6+

JM


From victorsubervi at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 11:30:34 2009
From: victorsubervi at gmail.com (Victor Subervi)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 10:30:34 -0500
Subject: Surpressing Warnings
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4dc0cfea0908091321y54156d30sc0c4dc3a564eecab@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <4dc0cfea0908160830n33c4e511t7aa1662884596885@mail.gmail.com>

This is strange because I actually had "if exists" in my code:

sqlKWDrop = 'DROP TABLE IF EXISTS ' + kwTable + ';'

where kwTable, in the instance cited below, becomes "judaism_128". What
gives?
Victor

On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 7:57 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

> On Sun, 9 Aug 2009 15:21:43 -0500, Victor Subervi
>  declaimed the following in
> gmane.comp.python.general:
>
> > Hi:
> > I get a ton of warnings like this from a program I run:
> >
> > Warning (from warnings module):
> >   File "C:\Python25\read.py", line 67
> >     cursor.execute(sqlKWDrop)
> > Warning: Unknown table 'judaism_128'
> >
>         Personally -- I'd suggest fixing the database so that the table
> does
> exist...
>
>        Ah, but then -- it appears from the name, that the purpose of this
> SQL statement is to delete the table... In which case use a database
> that supports (for example, current versions of MySQL, SQLite, and
> PostgreSQL) "drop table IF EXISTS tbl_name" which suppress the
> warning/error message and update the SQL as appropriate.
>
>        Appears that M$ SQL Server does NOT implement that syntax... Nor
> could I find it for Firebird.
>
>        If the application is specific for one database engine, it might be
> worth it to find out what features permit discovering if a table exists
> and bypassing the drop if it doesn't...
>
>
> --
>        Wulfraed         Dennis Lee Bieber               KD6MOG
>        wlfraed at ix.netcom.com   HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Sun Aug 16 11:41:21 2009
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 11:41:21 -0400
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
In-Reply-To: <200908160830.55031.emmanuel.surleau@gmail.com>
References: <24980842.post@talk.nabble.com> <4A8612CE.7080700@stoneleaf.us>
	<200908160830.55031.emmanuel.surleau@gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 2:30 AM, Emmanuel Surleau
 wrote:
>
> I don't see what's particularly un-Pythonic with this code. Not using xrange()
> is a mistake, certainly, but it remains clear, easily understandable code
> which correctly demonstrates the naive algorithm for detecting whether n is a
> prime. It doesn't call for condescension

It's not that the code is bad, but too many people coming from Java
and C keep thinking of for loops like they're using Java or C and
therefore that "for i in range(a,b)" is identical to "for(int i = a; i
< b; i++)". It's not and, for the most part, you shouldn't code like
that. Since you're using numbers, range/xrange is the appropriate
idiom but you still have to remember that a for loop in python doesn't
loop until a condition is met, it loops through an iterator until the
interator says it's done.


From psilord at merlin.cs.wisc.edu  Sun Aug 16 12:05:01 2009
From: psilord at merlin.cs.wisc.edu (Peter Keller)
Date: 16 Aug 2009 16:05:01 GMT
Subject: Xah's Edu Corner: The importance of syntax & notations.
References: 
Message-ID: <4a882e2d$0$9897$80265adb@spool.cs.wisc.edu>

In comp.lang.scheme Xah Lee  wrote:
> Xah's Edu Corner: The importance of syntax & notations.
> 
> http://www.stephenwolfram.com/publications/recent/mathml/mathml_abstract.html
> 
> this article should teach the coding sophomorons and computer
> ?science? idiotic authors who harbor the notion that syntax is not
> important, picked up by all the elite i-reddit & twittering &  hacker
> news am-hip dunces.

I must have really tweaked you with my "Syntax is not important, ideas are."
statement.

I read Wolfram's article carefully. He applies an intuitive sense onto
why he does or doesn't like a particular notation, but yet can't really
elucidate his feelings. I'm surprised that didn't tweak you worse. He
also goes so far as to mention that:

"But actually we still don't know a clean simple way to represent things
like geometrical diagrams in a kind of language-like notation. And
my guess is that actually of all the math-like stuff out there, only
a comparatively small fraction can actually be represented well with
language-like notation."

It is simply that the method by which the right brain categorizes
and processes visual information is not observable by the left
brain. Therefore no language can EVER be constructed by the left brain to
represent why the right brain "prefers" some visual layouts for languages
over others.  I've done enough classical art training in my life to
understand the conflict between the powerful spatial/visual processor
the right brain has and the (in the context of drawing) meaningless
linguistics of trying to describe the process.

Only when we as human beings build the observation channels needed (with
physical connection between certain areas of the left and right sides of
the brain) will any sort of meaningful left brain language be created
for the visual understanding/gradation of the spatial relationship and
the method by which our right brain performs its processing.

If you want to design a better computer language, hire an artist.

Most semantic objects in programs stand in some spatio-temporal
relation to each other. If you deny that fact, then simply look at the
directed acyclic form/SSA form/CPS transform of any of your favorite
languages. Compiler go through *great* pains to transform left brain
scribblings into large spatio-temporal "2d images" where lots of algorithms
are done before converting them into assembly. This is because it is simply
easier to visually understand how to do the processing of those elements
than not.

Thank you.

-pete


From jcm1981 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 12:17:42 2009
From: jcm1981 at gmail.com (Chang Min Jeon)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 01:17:42 +0900
Subject: my recursive function call is wrong?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <22a413260908160057t2802d3cci70658278e7322eb8@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <22a413260908160917j46b93717hd57889ce26feae6d@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Kev

Thank you very much.
I got it.:)

2009/8/16 Kev Dwyer 

> On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 16:57:41 +0900, Chang Min Jeon wrote:
>
>
> Hello,
>
> You have placed recursive calls to the function in a number of different
> locations; when len(macro) becomes zero control will return to the
> calling function, but this calling function may have more code to
> execute, including further calls to start_parse(), and further attempts
> to index macro.
>
> I like to keep recursive calls at the end of a function, so that there is
> a clean path back to the top level caller once the terminal condition is
> reached.  You can do it differently, but you need to bear in mind the
> execution paths through your code.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Kev
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
CashFlow
To be rich.
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From paul at subsignal.org  Sun Aug 16 12:30:48 2009
From: paul at subsignal.org (paul)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 18:30:48 +0200
Subject: Python or ActionScript 3.0
In-Reply-To: <0e14ae96-e9f5-41ff-8c2d-72c4ef624345@18g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: <0e14ae96-e9f5-41ff-8c2d-72c4ef624345@18g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Jaseem schrieb:
> Hi,
> 
> Is python similar to actionscript 3.0
Not really.

> Which is better to create a rich gui internet application?
> Is it AS 3.0 with flex or python with its GUI libs?
Flex+AS3 definitely! (it's been designed for that, no surprise here)

> 
> Is python in demand?
Depends. It seems quite popular in the scientific community and for 
system administration these days.

> Heard that python is similar to lisp. But both python and AS 3.0 is
> almost identical. Which is more similar to lisp are powerful?
If python is 100m away from lisp, than it's 102.32m for AS3.

cheers
  Paul
> 
> Thank You.



From python at rcn.com  Sun Aug 16 12:33:59 2009
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 09:33:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: What happened to __cmp__() in Python 3.x?
References: <2d56febf0908150509k1b6a3b98j7e76ae6596108280@mail.gmail.com> 
	
Message-ID: <561aa2a7-2cf8-4c30-b9a7-e22ad64655b5@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

[Xavier Ho]
> > I've recently made my way to Python 3.1 and I'm not seeing __cmp__() in the
> > documentation.
>
> > Is there a substitution for this special method in 3.1, or do I really have
> > to define all six rich comparison methods to work it out?

FWIW, there is a recipe for expanding the comparison operators:

        http://code.activestate.com/recipes/576685/


Raymond


From jasevv at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 12:39:49 2009
From: jasevv at gmail.com (Jaseem)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 09:39:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python or ActionScript 3.0
References: <0e14ae96-e9f5-41ff-8c2d-72c4ef624345@18g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4a889173-f1bf-4661-ae1d-4b0c23c4d586@r18g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 16, 9:30?pm, paul  wrote:
> Jaseem schrieb:> Hi,
>
> > Is python similar to actionscript 3.0
>
> Not really.
>
> > Which is better to create a rich gui internet application?
> > Is it AS 3.0 with flex or python with its GUI libs?
>
> Flex+AS3 definitely! (it's been designed for that, no surprise here)
>
>
>
> > Is python in demand?
>
> Depends. It seems quite popular in the scientific community and for
> system administration these days.
>
> > Heard that python is similar to lisp. But both python and AS 3.0 is
> > almost identical. Which is more similar to lisp are powerful?
>
> If python is 100m away from lisp, than it's 102.32m for AS3.
>
> cheers
> ? Paul
>
>
>
> > Thank You.
>
>
Alright!


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Sun Aug 16 12:40:57 2009
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 09:40:57 -0700
Subject: flatten a list of list
In-Reply-To: <0297dd0f$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <9c972b02-3c30-4fad-95bd-cf6165913d6b@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0297dd0f$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 02:47:42 -0700, Terry wrote:
>> Is there a simple way (the pythonic way) to flatten a list of list?
> Chris' suggestion using itertools seems pretty good:
> 
>>>> from timeit import Timer
>>>> setup = """\\
> ... L = [ [None]*5000 for _ in xrange(%d) ]
> ... from itertools import chain
> ... """
>>>> Timer("list(chain.from_iterable(L))", setup % 4).repeat(number=1000)
> [0.61839914321899414, 0.61799716949462891, 0.62065696716308594]
>>>> Timer("list(chain.from_iterable(L))", setup % 8).repeat(number=1000)
> [1.2618398666381836, 1.3385050296783447, 3.9113419055938721]
>>>> Timer("list(chain.from_iterable(L))", setup % 16).repeat(number=1000)
> [3.1349358558654785, 4.8554730415344238, 5.4319999217987061]

OK, it definitely helps to get a size estimate before building:

 >>> setup = """\\
L = [ [None]*5000 for _ in xrange(%d) ]
import itertools

class Holder(object):
     def __init__(self, list_of_lists):
         self._list = list_of_lists
     def __iter__(self):
         return itertools.chain.from_iterable(self._list)
     def __len__(self):
         return sum(len(x) for x in self._list)
"""

 >>> timeit.Timer("list(Holder(L))", setup % 4).repeat(number=1000)
[0.59912279353940789, 0.59505886921382967, 0.59474989139681611]
 >>> timeit.Timer("list(Holder(L))", setup % 8).repeat(number=1000)
[1.1898235669617208, 1.194797383466323, 1.1945367358141823]
 >>> timeit.Timer("list(Holder(L))", setup % 16).repeat(number=1000)
[2.4244464031043123, 2.4261885239604482, 2.4050011942858589]

vs straight chain.from_iterable (on my machine):

[0.7828263089303249, 0.79326171343005925, 0.80967664884783019]
[1.499510971366476, 1.5263249938190455, 1.5599706107899181]
[3.4427520816193109, 3.632409426337702, 3.5290488036887382]

--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From no.email at please.post  Sun Aug 16 13:09:32 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 17:09:32 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Splitting on '^' ?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

In  rurpy at yahoo.com writes:

>On Aug 14, 2:23=A0pm, kj  wrote:
>> Sometimes I want to split a string into lines, preserving the
>> end-of-line markers. =A0In Perl this is really easy to do, by splitting
>> on the beginning-of-line anchor:
>>
>> =A0 @lines =3D split /^/, $string;
>>
>> But I can't figure out how to do the same thing with Python. =A0E.g.:

>Why not this?

>>>> lines =3D 'spam\nham\neggs\n'.splitlines (True)
>>>> lines
>['spam\n', 'ham\n', 'eggs\n']

That's perfect.

And .splitlines seems to be able to handle all "standard" end-of-line
markers without any special direction (which, ironically, strikes
me as a *little* Perlish, somehow):

>>> "spam\015\012ham\015eggs\012".splitlines(True)
['spam\r\n', 'ham\r', 'eggs\n']

Amazing.  I'm not sure this is the *best* way to do this in general
(I would have preferred it, and IMHO it would have been more
Pythonic, if .splitlines accepted an additional optional argument
where one could specify the end-of-line sequence to be used for
the splitting, defaulting to the OS's conventional sequence, and
then it split *strictly* on that sequence).

But for now this .splitlines will do nicely.

Thanks!

kynn


From bettini at dsi.unifi.it  Sun Aug 16 13:12:11 2009
From: bettini at dsi.unifi.it (Lorenzo Bettini)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 19:12:11 +0200
Subject: Komodo(!)
In-Reply-To: 
References: <-7ydndQXQODmNxjXRVn_vwA@giganews.com>		<553649.43098.qm@web110605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	
Message-ID: <4a883df4@news.x-privat.org>

Kee Nethery wrote:
> I've heard there is a nice add-on to Eclipse but Eclipse has even more 
> setup variables than Wings and I've avoided it for that reason.
> 

Hi

I've just started using python and since I've been an eclipse user for 
many years I tried http://pydev.sourceforge.net/ and I really enjoyed 
that! :-)

cheers
	Lorenzo

-- 
Lorenzo Bettini, PhD in Computer Science, DI, Univ. Torino
ICQ# lbetto, 16080134     (GNU/Linux User # 158233)
HOME: http://www.lorenzobettini.it MUSIC: http://www.purplesucker.com
http://www.myspace.com/supertrouperabba
BLOGS: http://tronprog.blogspot.com  http://longlivemusic.blogspot.com
http://www.gnu.org/software/src-highlite
http://www.gnu.org/software/gengetopt
http://www.gnu.org/software/gengen http://doublecpp.sourceforge.net


From bieffe62 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 13:12:29 2009
From: bieffe62 at gmail.com (Francesco Bochicchio)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 10:12:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: flatten a list of list
References: <9c972b02-3c30-4fad-95bd-cf6165913d6b@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0297dd0f$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <65abe4e8-dd82-47f9-b851-028babbcc247@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 16, 1:25?pm, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:

...

> Chris' suggestion using itertools seems pretty good:
>
> >>> from timeit import Timer
> >>> setup = """\\
>
> ... L = [ [None]*5000 for _ in xrange(%d) ]
> ... from itertools import chain
> ... """>>> Timer("list(chain.from_iterable(L))", setup % 4).repeat(number=1000)
>
> [0.61839914321899414, 0.61799716949462891, 0.62065696716308594]>>> Timer("list(chain.from_iterable(L))", setup % 8).repeat(number=1000)
>
> [1.2618398666381836, 1.3385050296783447, 3.9113419055938721]>>> Timer("list(chain.from_iterable(L))", setup % 16).repeat(number=1000)
>
> [3.1349358558654785, 4.8554730415344238, 5.4319999217987061]
>
> --
> Steven

I had a peek at itertools ( which is a C module btw) and realized that
chain solves the problem by creating a chain object,
which is a sort of generator. Both creating the chain object and
converting the chain object to a list seem to be O(N), so
the whole is O(N) too ...

Then I tried this pure python version:

# ----- CODE
from timeit import Timer
setup = """\\
L = [ [None]*5000 for _ in range(%d) ]
def pychain( list_of_list ):
    for l in list_of_list:
        for elem in l:
            yield elem
"""

print( Timer("list(pychain(L))", setup % 4).repeat(number=1000))
print( Timer("list(pychain(L))", setup % 8).repeat(number=1000))
print( Timer("list(pychain(L))", setup % 16).repeat(number=1000))
# ----- END CODE


and got times that seem to confirm it :

[2.818755865097046, 2.7880589962005615, 2.79232120513916]
[5.588631868362427, 5.588244915008545, 5.587780952453613]
[11.620548009872437, 11.39465618133545, 11.40834903717041]

For reference, here are the times of the itertools.chain solution on
my laptop:

[0.6518809795379639, 0.6491332054138184, 0.6483590602874756]
[1.3188841342926025, 1.3173959255218506, 1.3207998275756836]
[2.7200729846954346, 2.5402050018310547, 2.543621063232422]

All this with Python 3.1 compiled from source on Xubuntu 8.10.

Ciao
-----
FB


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Aug 16 13:22:52 2009
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 19:22:52 +0200
Subject: Python 2.6 still not giving memory back to the OS...
In-Reply-To: <762603ba-0a4c-4504-94d9-34a8b1e3f9c3@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<38581c40-b7ed-4dbf-a3af-33e1761ba7b0@r7g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<762603ba-0a4c-4504-94d9-34a8b1e3f9c3@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A88406C.3060609@v.loewis.de>

> As far as releasing memory back to the OS is concerned, I have dim
> memories of *x systems where free() would return space to the OS if
> the block was "large" and it was next to the "break" point ... this
> effect could be what you are seeing.

Today, there are two cases when malloc returns memory on a typical
Unix system (in particular, in Linux malloc):
a) if the malloc block block is small (below page size), it is allocated
   from the brk heap, where it can only be returned if the last page of
   that heap is completely free, and
b) if the block is large (multiple pages), it gets returned to the
   system right away.

Case b) can only happen if the C malloc uses mmap to allocate large
blocks. For Python, case b) is realistic, in the sense that most
allocations go to Python's obmalloc, and those allocate from C malloc
in chunks of 256kiB (IIRC). So when such an arena is completely free
(not a single Python object allocated on it anymore), it can get
returned to the system.

In some case, Python also allocates smaller blocks from C malloc; in
this case, a) will trigger. So as long as something at the end of the
heap stays allocated, C malloc will not return anything from the brk
heap to the system.

Regards,
Martin


From alan.isaac at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 13:37:04 2009
From: alan.isaac at gmail.com (Alan G Isaac)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 17:37:04 GMT
Subject: flatten a list of list
In-Reply-To: <9c972b02-3c30-4fad-95bd-cf6165913d6b@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <9c972b02-3c30-4fad-95bd-cf6165913d6b@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A8843BF.1060203@gmail.com>

On 8/16/2009 5:47 AM Terry apparently wrote:
> Is there a simple way (the pythonic way) to flatten a list of list? 
> rather than my current solution:

> new_list=[] 
> for l in list_of_list:
>     new_list.extend(l)


new_list = list(xi for lst in list_of_list for xi in lst)

hth,
Alan Isaac


From http  Sun Aug 16 13:40:41 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 16 Aug 2009 10:40:41 -0700
Subject: flatten a list of list
References: <9c972b02-3c30-4fad-95bd-cf6165913d6b@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xocqfzmg6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Terry  writes:
> Is there a simple way (the pythonic way) to flatten a list of list?
> rather than my current solution:
> 
> new_list=[]
> for l in list_of_list:
>     new_list.extend(l)

from itertools import chain
new_list = list(chain(list_of_list))


From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 13:46:37 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 10:46:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in 
	string literals]
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> 
	
	
	 
	
	<5fcd454d-14b4-452b-91d3-938e9fa0bd18@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<02975ce6$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<029783cd$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<34dd6e0e-3b47-4761-ad7a-9038b0d36209@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 16, 8:45?am, MRAB  wrote:

> No, APL is strictly right-to-left.
>
> ? ? ?-> x
>
> means "goto x".
>
> Writing to the console is:
>
> ? ? ?[] <- myVar
>
> Reading from the console is:
>
> ? ? ?myVar <- []

Ah, thanks for the correction. It's been 5,000 years since I used APL!

|>ouglas


From w_a_x_man at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 16 14:03:18 2009
From: w_a_x_man at yahoo.com (w_a_x_man)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 11:03:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Xah's Edu Corner: The importance of syntax & notations.
References: 
	<4a882e2d$0$9897$80265adb@spool.cs.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <5031edcc-c63e-4a3b-9f12-caba0cc34e92@r18g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 16, 11:05?am, Petey Keller  wrote:
>  Compiler go through *great* pains

Compiler work real hard.
Compiler have heap big trouble.


From sajmikins at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 14:33:30 2009
From: sajmikins at gmail.com (Simon Forman)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 14:33:30 -0400
Subject: problem with interface of operator.itemgetter
In-Reply-To: <19b355330908132016y49f2679u631c3123fcfc920a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <19b355330908132016y49f2679u631c3123fcfc920a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50f98a4c0908161133hd7587chf7368ab0014dabb2@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 11:16 PM, dou dou wrote:
> I have a function to do some thing like LEFT JOIN in SQL, the function use
> the itemgetter to get the "ON" and "SELECT" parameters of the two table(list
> of list), the problem is that itemgetter may return a value or a tuple of
> values, because of the inconsistent return type of itemgetter, I have to do
> 2^3 IF check,
> the function like this:
>
> def left_join(table1, on_index1, table2, on_index2, getter1, getter2):
> ??? """do thing like:
> ??? SELECT on1(table1), g1(table1), g2(table2) FROM table1
> ??? LEFT JOIN table2
> ??? ON on1(table1) == on2(table2)
> ??? """
> ??? on1 = itemgetter(*on_index1)
> ??? on2 = itemgetter(*on_index2)
> ??? g1 = itemgetter(*getter1)
> ??? g2 = itemgetter(*getter2)
>
> ??? d2 = {}
> ??? d2 = dict((on2(r2), r2) for r2 in table2)
>
> ??? #if itemgetter always return tuple, below could simple as one line
> ??? #return [ list(on1(r1) + g1(r1) + g2(d2.get(on1(r1)))) for r1 in table1
> ]
>
> ??? len_on = len(on_index1)
> ??? len_g1 = len(getter1)
> ??? len_g2 = len(getter2)
>
> ??? if len_on == 1:
> ??????? if len_g1 == 1 and len_g2 == 1:
> ??????????? return [ [on1(r1), g1(r1), g2(d2.get(on1(r1)))] for r1 in table1
> ]
> ??????? elif len_g1 == 1 and len_g2 > 1:
> ??????????? return [ list((on1(r1),g1(r1))+g2(d2.get(on1(r1)))) for r1 in
> table1 ]
> ??????? elif len_g1 > 1 and len_g2 == 1:
> ??????????? return [ list((on1(r1),)+g1(r1)+(g2(d2.get(on1(r1))),))? for r1
> in table1 ]
> ??????? else: #len_g1 > 1 and len_g2 > 1:
> ??????????? return [ list((on1(r1),)+g1(r1)+g2(d2.get(on1(r1)))) for r1 in
> table1 ]
> ??? else: # len_on > 1
> ??????? if len_g1 == 1 and len_g2 == 1:
> ??????????? return [ list(on1(r1))+[g1(r1),g2(d2.get(on1(r1)))] for r1 in
> table1 ]
> ??????? elif len_g1 == 1 and len_g2 > 1:
> ??????????? return [ list(on1(r1)+(g1(r1),)+g2(d2.get(on1(r1)))) for r1 in
> table1 ]
> ??????? elif len_g1 > 1 and len_g2 == 1:
> ??????????? return [ list(on1(r1)+g1(r1)+(g2(d2.get(on1(r1))),))? for r1 in
> table1 ]
> ??????? else: #len_g1 > 1 and len_g2 > 1:
> ??????????? return [ list(on1(r1)+g1(r1)+g2(d2.get(on1(r1)))) for r1 in
> table1 ]
>
> so is there a way to force itemgetter to return tuple even when
> itemgetter(only_have_one_argument)? or some other function to do this?
>
> Thanks.
>


You can use a little helper function to create your itemgetter like this:

def makeItemGetter(indexes):
   I = itemgetter(*indexes)
   if len(indexes) > 1:
       return I
   return lambda thing: (I(thing),)

If indexes contains only one index the itemgetter is wrapped in a
lambda that turns its output into a tuple.

HTH,
~Simon


From gallium.arsenide at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 14:35:52 2009
From: gallium.arsenide at gmail.com (John Yeung)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 11:35:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Splitting on '^' ?
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <96ac83a3-adaf-4d22-ad9c-048a99b46927@o13g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 16, 1:09?pm, kj  wrote:
> And .splitlines seems to be able to handle all
> "standard" end-of-line markers without any special
> direction (which, ironically, strikes
> me as a *little* Perlish, somehow):

It's Pythonic.  Universal newline-handling for text has been a staple
of Python for as long as I can remember (very possibly since the very
beginning).

> >>> "spam\015\012ham\015eggs\012".splitlines(True)
>
> ['spam\r\n', 'ham\r', 'eggs\n']
>
> Amazing. ?I'm not sure this is the *best* way to do
> this in general (I would have preferred it, and IMHO
> it would have been more Pythonic, if .splitlines
> accepted an additional optional argument [...]).

I believe it's the best way.  When you can use a string method instead
of a regex, it's definitely most Pythonic to use the string method.

I would argue that this particular string method is Pythonic in
design.  Remember, Python strives not only for explicitness, but
simplicity and ease of use.  When dealing with text, universal
newlines are much more often than not simpler and easier for the
programmer.

John


From bartc at freeuk.com  Sun Aug 16 14:45:27 2009
From: bartc at freeuk.com (bartc)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 18:45:27 GMT
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
In-Reply-To: <02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 
	<02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 


"Steven D'Aprano"  wrote in message 
news:02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3 at news.astraweb.com...
> On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:25:45 -0700, Dr. Phillip M. Feldman wrote:
>
>> It seems as though Python is actually expanding range(2,n) into a list
>> of numbers, even though this is incredibly wasteful of memory. There
>> should be a looping mechanism that generates the index variable values
>> incrementally as they are needed.
>
>
> Others have already pointed out to you that xrange() (for Python 2.x)
> does what you want. In Python 3.x, the old range() is gone for good, and
> xrange() renamed to just range().

It does seem rather worrying that whoever originally thought up Python 
decided it would be a good idea to implement a simple 1 to N (or 0 to N-1) 
for-loop by first creating an array of N consecutive integers!

They must have known Python was going to be slow anyway, but this wouldn't 
have helped the speed any. Nor the memory consumption.

A for-loop, for iterating over a simple sequence, should be one of the 
fastest things in the language.

[Presumably the internal code that created those consecutive integers used a 
more conventional looping method...]

-- 
Bartc 



From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 14:50:09 2009
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 11:50:09 -0700
Subject: Splitting on '^' ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <7a9c25c20908161150ma1267b9xecc86a222312c0af@mail.gmail.com>

And .splitlines seems to be able to handle all "standard" end-of-line
> markers without any special direction (which, ironically, strikes
> me as a *little* Perlish, somehow):
>
> >>> "spam\015\012ham\015eggs\012".splitlines(True)
> ['spam\r\n', 'ham\r', 'eggs\n']
>

... actually "working correctly" and robustly is "perlish"? :)

The only reason I've ever actually used this method is this very feature of
it, that you can't readily reproduce with other methods unless you start
getting into regular expressions (and I really believe regular expressions
should not be the default place one looks to solve a problem in Python)

Then again, as soon as Python started allowing you to open files with mode
"rU", I gleefully ran through my codebase and changed every operation to
that and made sure to write out with platform-local newlines exclusively,
thus finally flipping off those darn files that users kept producing with
mixed line endings.


> Amazing.  I'm not sure this is the *best* way to do this in general
> (I would have preferred it, and IMHO it would have been more
> Pythonic, if .splitlines accepted an additional optional argument
> where one could specify the end-of-line sequence to be used for
> the splitting, defaulting to the OS's conventional sequence, and
> then it split *strictly* on that sequence).
>

If you want strict and absolute splitting, you don't need another method;
just do mystring.split(os.linesep); I mean sure, it doesn't have the
'keepends' feature -- but I don't actually understand why you want keepends
with a strict definition of endings... If you /only/ want to split on \n,
you know there's an \n on the end of each line in the returned list and can
easily be sure to write it out (for example) :)

In the modern world of mixed systems and the internet, and files being flung
around willy-nilly, and editors being configured to varying degrees of
correctness, and such.... It's Pythonic to be able to handle all these files
that anyone made on any system and treat them as they are clearly *meant* to
be treated. Since the intention *is* clear that these are all *end of line*
markers-- it's explicitly stated, just slightly differently depending on the
OS-- Python treats all of the line-endings as equal on read if you want it
to. By using either str.splitlines() or opening a text file as "rU". Thank
goodness for that :)

In some cases you may need a more pedantic approach to line endings. In that
case, just use str.split() :)

--S
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From davea at ieee.org  Sun Aug 16 14:53:08 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 14:53:08 -0400
Subject: random.gauss vs. random.normalvariate
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<89df98da-cdaf-4422-9bc0-c0b46ebefcda@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>		
	
Message-ID: <4A885594.1080703@ieee.org>

John Haggerty wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 7:23 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
>
>   
>> On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 14:34:36 -0600, John Haggerty 
>> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>>
>>     
>>> What does the term "thread safe" mean exactly. I never had to program
>>>       
>> with
>>     
>>> "threads" before
>>>       
>>         That, part way through the logic of the function, control could be
>> switched to a different thread which call the same function... This
>> second call would change some of the internal values and may then be
>> preempted and control returned to the first thread, which continues the
>> rest of the function with different values then it had when first
>> preempted.
>>
>>        A very contrived example, untested of course, consider it
>> pseudo-code...
>>
>> startt = None
>>
>> def atimer():
>>        global startt
>>        startt = time.time()
>>        time.sleep(5)
>>        print time.time() - startt
>>
>> t1 = threading.thread(atimer)
>> t2 = threading.thread(atimer)
>> t1.start()
>> t2.start()
>>
>> Say t1 gets all the way up to the sleep call, and (since sleep is a
>> releasing call), t2 then starts. t2 changes the value of startt; and
>> sleeps... both sleep and presuming the resolution is fine enough, t1
>> resumes, and  prints a delta time that is incorrect -- it is printing
>> the time difference from when t2 started to sleep, not from when t1
>> started to sleep.
>> --
>>        Wulfraed         Dennis Lee Bieber               KD6MOG
>>        wlfraed at ix.netcom.com   HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/
>>
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>>     
>
> Interesting so it seems that the compiler(c/c++)interpreter(perl,
> python)/vm(java) doesn't do this?
>
>   
It is impossible for a language, vm, or operating system to avoid 
threading problems without the programmer's help, except by trivial 
means (eg. preventing you from having them at all).

The power of threading is entirely tied up with the features the 
environment gives to the developer, and those features come with a risk.

At one extreme is the CP/M model.  You start a new program only when you 
finish the previous one.  So the only communication between them is a 
file the first one leaves behind, that the second can look at.

Next is separate processes.  If you launch a second process, by default, 
they're independent, and not likely to get into trouble.  But you can 
build pipes or shared memory, or sockets between them, and then you have 
to worry about race conditions.

Next is threads, within a single process.  At this point, you can share 
(global) variables between them, or you can have objects known to both 
when the thread is launched.  The system cannot tell which ones are 
deliberate and which ones are accidental.  So a language might give 
extra keywords to tell the compiler that certain things should be 
protected in certain ways.  Or it might give a way to declare a 
"per-thread global" that acts like a global to each thread, but is 
actually two independent variables from the process point of view.

The only real reason threads are singled out is it's easier to collide 
by mistake.  But that's also what makes it efficient to "collide" on 
purpose.

DaveA


From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 14:55:31 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 11:55:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in 
	string literals]
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> 
	
	
	 
	
	<5fcd454d-14b4-452b-91d3-938e9fa0bd18@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<02975ce6$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<029783cd$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	 
	<0297b230$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<74a3f562-6209-485e-9fbb-145ec00c331c@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<0297cd31$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <0ee729c3-22f0-450c-8fba-39ae74f7535d@d4g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 16, 6:18?am, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:

> On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 01:41:41 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:

> > I would definitely not like a language that obscures assignment by
> > moving it over to the right side of lines.

> One could argue that left-assigned-from-right assignment obscures the
> most important part of the assignment, namely *what* you're assigning, in
> favour of what you're assigning *to*.

The most important things are always the side-effects and the name-
bindings.

In a large program, it can be difficult to figure out where a name is
defined, or which version of a name a particular line of code is
seeing. Consequently languages should always go out of their way to
make tracking this as easy as possible.

Side effects are also a huge issue, and a source of many bugs. This is
one of the reasons that that are many functional languages that
prohibit or discourage side-effects. Side effects should be made as
obvious as is feasible.

This is why, for instance, in Scheme, variable assignment as an
exclamation mark in it. E.g.,

   (set! x (+ x 1))

The exclamation mark is to make the fact that a side effect is
happening there stand out and be immediately apparent. And C++
provides the "const" declaration for similar reasons.

> In any case, after half a century of left-from-right assignment, I think
> it's worth the experiment in a teaching language or three to try it the
> other way. The closest to this I know of is the family of languages
> derived from Apple's Hypertalk, where you do assignment with:
>
> put somevalue into name

That's okay with me, but only because the statement begins with "put",
which lets you know at the very beginning of the line that something
very important is happening. You don't have to scan all the way to the
right before you notice.

Still, I would prefer

   let name = somevalue

as the "let" gives me the heads up right away, and then immediately
after the "let" is the name that I might want to be able to scan for
quickly.

|>ouglas


From psilord at merlin.cs.wisc.edu  Sun Aug 16 15:17:02 2009
From: psilord at merlin.cs.wisc.edu (Peter Keller)
Date: 16 Aug 2009 19:17:02 GMT
Subject: Xah's Edu Corner: The importance of syntax & notations.
References: 
	<4a882e2d$0$9897$80265adb@spool.cs.wisc.edu>
	<5031edcc-c63e-4a3b-9f12-caba0cc34e92@r18g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a885b2e$0$9897$80265adb@spool.cs.wisc.edu>

In comp.lang.scheme w_a_x_man  wrote:
> On Aug 16, 11:05?am, Petey Keller  wrote:
>>  Compiler go through *great* pains
> 
> Compiler work real hard.
> Compiler have heap big trouble.

That's a funny observation in the context of this thread--which I
appreciate, since syntax really is the cornerstone of meaning transferal
between people. The unintended connotation brought in by what I mistakenly
wrote underscores the value of syntax.

However, what we don't have is a means of measuring the effectiveness
and/or efficiency of expressing meaning for an arbitrary set of syntax
rules. Computer Scientists can do this somewhat in that the expressive
power of parsing is greater than regular expressions and both can use a
syntax to represent them. But in a single complexity class, the "black
art" of how to place a metric on a syntax is, at least at this time,
relegated to the right brain and how it visually sees (and visually
parses) the syntax and how our emotions relate to the syntax.

The wolfram article, in fact, never does mention any metric other than
"this is hard to understand, this is less hard to understand". In a sense,
how is that useful at all?  Instead of really trying to find a method
by which understanding can be placed upon a metric (or discovering a
method *can not* be found, he seems to anecdotally ascribe understanding
difficulty upon various syntaxs.

The real frustrations of Xah Lee might be explained by his denial of the
right brain processing of syntax information. It is to be expected since
most industrial cultures suppress right brain advancement (emotional
understanding/social interaction, drawing, music, spatial relations) in
lieu of left brain processing (language and syntax, symbolic manipulation
(part, though not all of the skill set of math), object naming). In
fact, his skills of communicating his ideas in a social setting which,
in my opinion, are poor and stunted, is a red flag and the epitome of
this type of cultural viewpoint.

Thank you.

-pete


From sajmikins at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 15:36:20 2009
From: sajmikins at gmail.com (Simon Forman)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 12:36:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Splitting a string into substrings of equal size
References: <4a85ffe2$0$24643$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 14, 8:22?pm, candide  wrote:
> Suppose you need to split a string into substrings of a given size (except
> possibly the last substring). I make the hypothesis the first slice is at the
> end of the string.
> A typical example is provided by formatting a decimal string with thousands
> separator.
>
> What is the pythonic way to do this ?
>
> For my part, i reach to this rather complicated code:
>
> # ----------------------
>
> def comaSep(z,k=3, sep=','):
> ? ? z=z[::-1]
> ? ? x=[z[k*i:k*(i+1)][::-1] for i in range(1+(len(z)-1)/k)][::-1]
> ? ? return sep.join(x)
>
> # Test
> for z in ["75096042068045", "509", "12024", "7", "2009"]:
> ? ? print z+" --> ", comaSep(z)
>
> # ----------------------
>
> outputting :
>
> 75096042068045 --> ?75,096,042,068,045
> 509 --> ?509
> 12024 --> ?12,024
> 7 --> ?7
> 2009 --> ?2,009
>
> Thanks

FWIW:

def chunks(s, length=3):
    stop = len(s)
    start = stop - length
    while start > 0:
        yield s[start:stop]
        stop, start = start, start - length
    yield s[:stop]


s = '1234567890'
print ','.join(reversed(list(chunks(s))))
# prints '1,234,567,890'


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sun Aug 16 16:00:27 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 21:00:27 +0100
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <4A88655B.2070108@mrabarnett.plus.com>

bartc wrote:
> 
> "Steven D'Aprano"  wrote in 
> message news:02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3 at news.astraweb.com...
>> On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:25:45 -0700, Dr. Phillip M. Feldman wrote:
>>
>>> It seems as though Python is actually expanding range(2,n) into a list
>>> of numbers, even though this is incredibly wasteful of memory. There
>>> should be a looping mechanism that generates the index variable values
>>> incrementally as they are needed.
>>
>>
>> Others have already pointed out to you that xrange() (for Python 2.x)
>> does what you want. In Python 3.x, the old range() is gone for good, and
>> xrange() renamed to just range().
> 
> It does seem rather worrying that whoever originally thought up Python 
> decided it would be a good idea to implement a simple 1 to N (or 0 to 
> N-1) for-loop by first creating an array of N consecutive integers!
> 
Whoever? I am shocked! ;-)

> They must have known Python was going to be slow anyway, but this 
> wouldn't have helped the speed any. Nor the memory consumption.
> 
> A for-loop, for iterating over a simple sequence, should be one of the 
> fastest things in the language.
> 
> [Presumably the internal code that created those consecutive integers 
> used a more conventional looping method...]
> 



From shailen.tuli at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 16:13:32 2009
From: shailen.tuli at gmail.com (Shailen)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 13:13:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: zip codes
Message-ID: <35833d36-2fdc-4ed8-8142-604af3c88afe@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

Is there any Python module that helps with US and foreign zip-code
lookups? I'm thinking of something that provides basic mappings of zip
to cities, city to zips, etc. Since this kind of information is so
often used for basic user-registration, I'm assuming functionality of
this sort must be available for Python. Any suggestions will be much
appreciated.

- Shailen Tuli


From no.email at please.post  Sun Aug 16 16:29:15 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 20:29:15 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: XPath support?
Message-ID: 



I'm looking for a XML parser that produces an object with full
XPath support.  What I've been using up to now, xml.etree.ElementTree,
fails to support Xpath predicates, as in "spam[@eggs='3']/ham".

What I'm trying to do is to read-in a large XML string, and parse
it into an object from which I can extract nodes matching selectors
that include such predicates.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

TIA!

kynn


From deets at nospam.web.de  Sun Aug 16 16:31:24 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 22:31:24 +0200
Subject: XPath support?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7er8ksF2hmnmqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

kj schrieb:
> I'm looking for a XML parser that produces an object with full
> XPath support.  What I've been using up to now, xml.etree.ElementTree,
> fails to support Xpath predicates, as in "spam[@eggs='3']/ham".
> 
> What I'm trying to do is to read-in a large XML string, and parse
> it into an object from which I can extract nodes matching selectors
> that include such predicates.
> 
> Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Try lxml. It's element-tree compatible, and supports xpath.

Diez


From kevin.p.dwyer at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 16:37:16 2009
From: kevin.p.dwyer at gmail.com (Kev Dwyer)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 20:37:16 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: XPath support?
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 20:29:15 +0000, kj wrote:

> I'm looking for a XML parser that produces an object with full XPath
> support.  What I've been using up to now, xml.etree.ElementTree, fails
> to support Xpath predicates, as in "spam[@eggs='3']/ham".
> 
> What I'm trying to do is to read-in a large XML string, and parse it
> into an object from which I can extract nodes matching selectors that
> include such predicates.
> 
> Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> TIA!
> 
> kynn


Have you tried lxml (http://codespeak.net/lxml/)?

Kev



From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Sun Aug 16 16:41:07 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 13:41:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
References:  
	<02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On 16 Aug, 11:45, "bartc"  wrote:

> A for-loop, for iterating over a simple sequence, should be one of the
> fastest things in the language.

Anyone experienced with interpreted high-level languages knows this is
not true. Not because iterating a sequence is expensive, but because
the interpreter is constantly executing the body of the loop. There is
a reason why Matlab and Python/NumPy programmers rely heavily on
vectorized array expressions for efficient numerics.

The only thing more evil than a for-loop is recursive function calls.

This does not mean Python is slow. It just means you have to program
differently.









From http  Sun Aug 16 16:42:56 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 16 Aug 2009 13:42:56 -0700
Subject: random.gauss vs. random.normalvariate
References: 
	<89df98da-cdaf-4422-9bc0-c0b46ebefcda@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
	
	<7xd46ws86b.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
Message-ID: <7xbpmfqylr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Dennis Lee Bieber  writes:
> > > 	No language can guard against independent access of a shared/global
> > > object by multiple threads...
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erlang_(programming_language)
> """
> Like operating system processes (and unlike green threads and operating
> system threads) they have NO SHARED STATE between them.
> """
> which seems to reinforce my statement, not refute it.

Id say Erlang guards against independent access of shared/global
objects by not allowing them.

> (The Amiga was heavily dependent upon message ports... Having to
> copy data buffers between processes would have slowed the system
> down drastically [8MHz processor, in those days],

It's perfectly ok for Erlang implementation to just pass pointers
around, when the processes are on the same machine.  Erlang prohibits
data mutation so there isn't an issue of a process modifying some
structure while another process is using it.


From toby at telegraphics.com.au  Sun Aug 16 16:51:21 2009
From: toby at telegraphics.com.au (toby)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 13:51:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Xah's Edu Corner: The importance of syntax & notations.
References: 
	<4a882e2d$0$9897$80265adb@spool.cs.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <4f0af709-527a-47db-8a8a-b0b42c6fe34d@d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 16, 12:05?pm, Peter Keller  wrote:
> In comp.lang.scheme Xah Lee  wrote:
>
> > Xah's Edu Corner: The importance of syntax & notations.
>
> >http://www.stephenwolfram.com/publications/recent/mathml/mathml_abstr...
>
> > this article should teach the coding sophomorons and computer
> > ?science? idiotic authors who harbor the notion that syntax is not
> > important, picked up by all the elite i-reddit & twittering & ?hacker
> > news am-hip dunces.
>
> I must have really tweaked you with my "Syntax is not important, ideas are."
> statement.
>
> I read Wolfram's article carefully. He applies an intuitive sense onto
> why he does or doesn't like a particular notation, but yet can't really
> elucidate his feelings.

Exactly; and as far as I can determine, Knuth does the same. He
applies standards of *good taste* to his notation. (No surprise that
he's also singled out for vituperation by the OP.)

In my opinion Knuth believed in the value of literate programming for
similar reasons: To try to exploit existing cognitive training. If
your user base is familiar with English, or mathematical notation, or
some other lexicography, try to exploit the pre-wired associations.
Clearly this involves some intuition.

> ...
> Thank you.
>
> -pete



From fateman at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 17:00:42 2009
From: fateman at gmail.com (rjf)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 14:00:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Xah's Edu Corner: The importance of syntax & notations.
References: 
	<4a882e2d$0$9897$80265adb@spool.cs.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <75e1deb2-f879-4deb-bd50-56954dfefc64@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 16, 9:05?am, Peter Keller  wrote:
> In comp.lang.scheme Xah Lee  wrote:
>
> > Xah's Edu Corner: The importance of syntax & notations.
>
> >http://www.stephenwolfram.com/publications/recent/mathml/mathml_abstr...
>
> > this article should teach the coding sophomorons and computer
> > ?science? idiotic authors who harbor the notion that syntax is not
> > important, picked up by all the elite i-reddit & twittering & ?hacker
> > news am-hip dunces.
>
> I must have really tweaked you with my "Syntax is not important, ideas are."
> statement.
>
> I read Wolfram's article carefully. He applies an intuitive sense onto
> why he does or doesn't like a particular notation, but yet can't really
> elucidate his feelings. I'm surprised that didn't tweak you worse. He
> also goes so far as to mention that:
>
> "But actually we still don't know a clean simple way to represent things
> like geometrical diagrams in a kind of language-like notation. And
> my guess is that actually of all the math-like stuff out there, only
> a comparatively small fraction can actually be represented well with
> language-like notation."
>


For someone talking about notation and language, it is amusing that
Wolfram refuses to write grammatically correct sentences.  Each of the
pseudo-sentences quoted above is a dependent clause.  Wolfram writes
like that. He typically begins sentences with "but" or "and".

In the article cited, he also claims to be more-or-less the only
person alive to have thought about these issues, and that Mathematica
is the solution.  This is not surprising,and it is nevertheless clear
that Wolfram has spent some time thinking about mathematical notation,
and some money developing fonts and such.  His self-praise is perhaps
not deserved.

It is unfortunate that most users of Mathematica labor under a
misunderstanding of the meaning of the fundamental algorithmic
notation of that system, namely "function definition".

f[x_]:=x+1    is not a function definition, although most users think
so.

In fact, it is a pattern/replacement rule.

If you want to write the equivalent of the lisp (defun f(x)(+ x 1))
you can do so in mathematica, but it looks like this:

f=#1+1&

or alternatively,

f=Function[Plus[Slot[1],1]]

or alternatively,

f= Function[{x},x+1]


How do those choices grab you for the Emmy in "Excellence in
Notation"?

By the way, what is wrong with f[x_]:=x+1?

While you might think it maps  x->x+1 for all x,  it does so only in
the absence of other rules involving f.  Thus the presence of another
definition (actually another rule) ... f[z_]:=z^2/;OddQ[z]  changes
the definition when the argument is an odd integer.
An equivalent definition is
f[z_?OddQ]:=z^2

now you could have 2 rules
f[x_?Predicate1]:= 123
f[x_?Predicate2]:= 456

and it might not be clear which Predicate is a subset of the other.
(It is clear that the blank pattern "_" is a superset of "_?OddQ" ).

So how does Mathematica deal with this situation?
The predicates are tested in some order until one returns True.
What order is that?

 "Whenever the appropriate ordering is not clear, Mathematica stores
rules in the order you give them. "
Oh, when is the ordering not clear?

Uh, "you should realize that this [ordering] is not always possible".
(quotes from mathematica documentation , TheOrderingOfDefinitions.)

While Wolfram has provided an admirable summary of the history of
notation, his solution is less so.

RJF



From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Sun Aug 16 17:10:05 2009
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 22:10:05 +0100
Subject: zip codes
In-Reply-To: <35833d36-2fdc-4ed8-8142-604af3c88afe@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <35833d36-2fdc-4ed8-8142-604af3c88afe@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Shailen wrote:
> Is there any Python module that helps with US and foreign zip-code
> lookups? I'm thinking of something that provides basic mappings of zip
> to cities, city to zips, etc. Since this kind of information is so
> often used for basic user-registration, I'm assuming functionality of
> this sort must be available for Python. Any suggestions will be much
> appreciated.
> 
There might be an associated can of worms here, for example in the 
Netherlands zip codes are actually copyrighted and require a license if 
you want to do something with them, on the other hand you get a nice SQL 
formatted db to use it. I don't know how this works in other countries 
but I imagine that it is likely to be generally the same.

-- 
MPH
http://blog.dcuktec.com
'If consumed, best digested with added seasoning to own preference.'


From rylesny at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 17:10:25 2009
From: rylesny at gmail.com (ryles)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 14:10:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python 2.6 still not giving memory back to the OS...
References: 
Message-ID: <79bbe86b-0d3b-4f03-b0df-be4b3308d4cd@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 15, 7:55?am, Chris Withers  wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I thought this was fixed back in Python 2.5, but I guess not?
>
> So, I'm playing in an interactive session:
>
> ?>>> from xlrd import open_workbook
> ?>>> b = open_workbook('some.xls',pickleable=0,formatting_info=1)
>
> At this point, top shows the process usage for python to be about 500Mb.
> That's okay, I'd expect that, b is big ;-)
>
> ?>>> del b
>
> However, it still does now, maybe the garbage collector needs a kick?
>
> ?>>> import gc
> ?>>> gc.collect()
> 702614
>
> Nope, still 500Mb. What gives? How can I make Python give the memory its
> no longer using back to the OS?
>
> Okay, so maybe this is something to do with it being an interactive
> session? So I wrote this script:
>
> from xlrd import open_workbook
> import gc
> b = open_workbook('some.xls',pickleable=0,formatting_info=1)
> print 'opened'
> raw_input()
> del b
> print 'deleted'
> raw_input()
> gc.collect()
> print 'gc'
> raw_input()
>
> The raw inputs are there so I can check the memory usage in top.
> Even after the gc, Python still hasn't given the memory back to the OS :-(
>
> What am I doing wrong?
>
> Chris
>
> --
> Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting
> ? ? ? ? ? ? -http://www.simplistix.co.uk

Repeat the 'b = open_workbook ...' line in the interpreter several
times and track the memory usage after each execution. I noticed this
behavior on linux, but saw that after repeating it a few times memory
usage finally stop going up. Probably just the behavior of the
allocator.


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Aug 16 17:24:17 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 16 Aug 2009 14:24:17 -0700
Subject: Nltk with python
References: <82c9f923-1098-4b7e-8f9d-9504c1a8962c@12g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

In article <82c9f923-1098-4b7e-8f9d-9504c1a8962c at 12g2000pri.googlegroups.com>,
ArshaKrishna   wrote:
>
>How can I resolve scope ambiguity using nltk toolkit with python

Question not clear, please provide more explanation
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I saw `cout' being shifted "Hello world" times to the left and stopped
right there."  --Steve Gonedes


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Aug 16 17:25:12 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 16 Aug 2009 14:25:12 -0700
Subject: zip codes
References: <35833d36-2fdc-4ed8-8142-604af3c88afe@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

In article <35833d36-2fdc-4ed8-8142-604af3c88afe at k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
Shailen   wrote:
>
>Is there any Python module that helps with US and foreign zip-code
>lookups? I'm thinking of something that provides basic mappings of zip
>to cities, city to zips, etc. Since this kind of information is so
>often used for basic user-registration, I'm assuming functionality of
>this sort must be available for Python. Any suggestions will be much
>appreciated.

There's no module; you have to purchase the information and then massage
it yourself.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I saw `cout' being shifted "Hello world" times to the left and stopped
right there."  --Steve Gonedes


From nagle at animats.com  Sun Aug 16 17:58:40 2009
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 14:58:40 -0700
Subject: Xah's Edu Corner: The importance of syntax & notations.
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4a888022$0$1637$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

Xah Lee wrote:
> Xah's Edu Corner: The importance of syntax & notations.
> 
> http://www.stephenwolfram.com/publications/recent/mathml/mathml_abstract.html
> 
> this article should teach the coding sophomorons and computer
> ?science? idiotic authors who harbor the notion that syntax is not
> important, picked up by all the elite i-reddit & twittering &  hacker
> news am-hip dunces.

    Definitely read Wolfram's paper.  He and his people actually had
to solve the problem.

    Wolfram had to face up to the big problem - how do we input traditional
mathematics into a computer unambiguously.  Version 1 was Mathematica
FullForm, which is very wordy but clear, like Ada.  This worked, but
was too clunky.  After a few redesigns, they came up with what he
calls StandardForm, which is Mathematica's variant on what he calls
"TraditionalForm", or mathematics as currently written in textbooks.
The differences are subtle; the main one is that precedence is more
explicit, and a "double strike" convention is used to disambiguate
certain meta-symbols, like the "d" used in derivatives and "i" used
as sqrt(-1).

StandardForm is unambiguous.  TraditionalForm is not, as anyone who
spends too much time reading other people's math publications realizes.
Cleverly, the Mathematica people have been able to produce a set of
heuristics which, Wolfram claims, allows converting traditional form
into the unambiguous StandardForm, getting it right most of the time.
(I've been struggling to read a paper on machine learning which has some
non-standard operator precedence problems, and I wish the paper was in
StandardForm.)

    Wolfram would, I think, like to make "StandardForm" the standard for
publication, and in time, something like that will probably happen.
It's useful to be able to get math in and out of symbolic manipulation
systems.

    Anyway, read the paper.

				John Nagle


From shailen.tuli at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 18:26:27 2009
From: shailen.tuli at gmail.com (Shailen)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 15:26:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: zip codes
References: <35833d36-2fdc-4ed8-8142-604af3c88afe@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <512e67d9-8733-4329-a7d9-c6e21d6a2165@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

Thanks Martin and Aahz. Anyone know if zip code information is
copyrighted for the US? Anyone can look up zip codes on usps.gov (and
other locations),so the information is readily available. I need zip
codes for a handful of cities and could map those myself (or write a
script to scrape them for me), but am not sure if they *MUST* be
purchased for copyright reasons. Anyone know?

- Shailen Tuli


From davea at ieee.org  Sun Aug 16 18:27:47 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 18:27:47 -0400
Subject: redoing libgmail interface to "smtplib" blah?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 		
	
Message-ID: <4A8887E3.3050000@ieee.org>

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 23:14:39 -0600, John Haggerty 
> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>
>   
>> I did detect one problem thus far
>>
>>  File "test.py", line 152
>>     if len(args) == 1 and args[0] = "-c":
>>
>>     
> 	Should have been fine, unless my memory of sys.argv contents was
> wrong (as I recall, sys.argv, if it behaves like other languages, would
>   
> 
You missed the actual problem:   there's a single '=' in the second part 
of the if expression.  Should be "=="

DaveA


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Sun Aug 16 18:35:26 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 15:35:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
References:  
	<02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	 
	
Message-ID: <4434e799-d907-49ca-93ee-a4be3276f9c2@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

On 16 Aug, 14:57, Dennis Lee Bieber  wrote:

> ? ? ? ? Well, the alternative would be to have two keywords for looping: one
> for your "simple" incrementing integer loop, and another for a loop that
> operates over the elements of some collection type.

A compiler could easily recognise a statement like

   for i in range(n):

as a simple integer loop. In fact, Cython is able to do this.








From http  Sun Aug 16 19:17:59 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 16 Aug 2009 16:17:59 -0700
Subject: zip codes
References: <35833d36-2fdc-4ed8-8142-604af3c88afe@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
	<512e67d9-8733-4329-a7d9-c6e21d6a2165@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7x63cnbb6g.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Shailen  writes:
> Thanks Martin and Aahz. Anyone know if zip code information is
> copyrighted for the US? Anyone can look up zip codes on usps.gov (and
> other locations),so the information is readily available. I need zip
> codes for a handful of cities and could map those myself (or write a
> script to scrape them for me), but am not sure if they *MUST* be
> purchased for copyright reasons. Anyone know?

I don't think US zip code info is copyrighted.  There is a lot of it
in the TIGER database:

  http://www.census.gov/geo/www/tiger/tigerua/ua_tgr2k.html

There are also some API's operated by usps.com if you want just a few
lookups now and then.

It was a long time ago, I don't remember specifics, and the contents
are surely out of date by now, but I extracted a bunch of the TIGER
geographic coordinates for zip codes here:

  http://www.nightsong.com/phr/chess/zipcodes.zip


From http  Sun Aug 16 19:32:31 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 16 Aug 2009 16:32:31 -0700
Subject: zip codes
References: <35833d36-2fdc-4ed8-8142-604af3c88afe@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
	<512e67d9-8733-4329-a7d9-c6e21d6a2165@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<7x63cnbb6g.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <7xws539vxs.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

> It was a long time ago, I don't remember specifics, and the contents
> are surely out of date by now, but I extracted a bunch of the TIGER
> geographic coordinates for zip codes here:
> 
>   http://www.nightsong.com/phr/chess/zipcodes.zip

That file may have actually come from here:

  http://www.census.gov/geo/www/tiger/zip1999.html


From invalid at invalid  Sun Aug 16 20:07:18 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 19:07:18 -0500
Subject: zip codes
References: <35833d36-2fdc-4ed8-8142-604af3c88afe@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
	<512e67d9-8733-4329-a7d9-c6e21d6a2165@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-16, Shailen  wrote:

> Thanks Martin and Aahz. Anyone know if zip code information is
> copyrighted for the US?

You can't copyright "information" as such.  Only concrete
expressions of information.  A particular publication
containing zip code information can be copyrighted.  The
underlying facts themselve cannot be.

-- 
Grant




From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Sun Aug 16 21:23:20 2009
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 21:23:20 -0400
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
In-Reply-To: <4434e799-d907-49ca-93ee-a4be3276f9c2@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<4434e799-d907-49ca-93ee-a4be3276f9c2@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 6:35 PM, sturlamolden  wrote:
>
> A compiler could easily recognise a statement like
>
> ? for i in range(n):
>
> as a simple integer loop. In fact, Cython is able to do this.

but special cases aren't special enough to break the rules.


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Sun Aug 16 21:23:23 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 18:23:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
References:  
	<02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	 
	
	<4434e799-d907-49ca-93ee-a4be3276f9c2@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 17, 8:35?am, sturlamolden  wrote:

> A compiler could easily recognise a statement like
> ? ?for i in range(n):
> as a simple integer loop. In fact, Cython is able to do this.

Extremely easy, once users relinquish the right to replace built-in
"range" with their own concoctions ...



From exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  Sun Aug 16 21:28:40 2009
From: exarkun at twistedmatrix.com (exarkun at twistedmatrix.com)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 01:28:40 -0000
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<4434e799-d907-49ca-93ee-a4be3276f9c2@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <20090817012840.8740.554583249.divmod.xquotient.17@localhost.localdomain>

On 01:23 am, benjamin.kaplan at case.edu wrote:
>On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 6:35 PM, sturlamolden  
>wrote:
>>
>>A compiler could easily recognise a statement like
>>
>>? for i in range(n):
>>
>>as a simple integer loop. In fact, Cython is able to do this.
>
>but special cases aren't special enough to break the rules.

Although I think PyPy also recognizes this case and makes it as 
efficient as using xrange, and does so without breaking any rules.

There *are* _some_ legitimate complaints to be made about the CPython 
runtime. :)

Jean-Paul


From http  Sun Aug 16 21:44:33 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 16 Aug 2009 18:44:33 -0700
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
References: 
	<02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<4434e799-d907-49ca-93ee-a4be3276f9c2@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <7xtz079ptq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

exarkun at twistedmatrix.com writes:
> Although I think PyPy also recognizes this case and makes it as
> efficient as using xrange, and does so without breaking any rules.

How can pypy possibly know that the user hasn't assigned some other
value to "range"?


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 21:53:10 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 18:53:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
References:  
	<02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	 
	
	<4434e799-d907-49ca-93ee-a4be3276f9c2@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	 
	
Message-ID: <900c0d5e-a41a-4820-9844-816afa1a33c9@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 16, 6:28?pm, exar... at twistedmatrix.com wrote:
> On 01:23 am, benjamin.kap... at case.edu wrote:
>
> >On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 6:35 PM, sturlamolden 
> >wrote:
>
> >>A compiler could easily recognise a statement like
>
> >>? for i in range(n):
>
> >>as a simple integer loop. In fact, Cython is able to do this.
>
> >but special cases aren't special enough to break the rules.
>
> Although I think PyPy also recognizes this case and makes it as
> efficient as using xrange, and does so without breaking any rules.

PyPy uses a JIT compiler (which is still slower than CPython,
suggesting that perhaps they should have spent more time optimizing
the general case than optimizing for an easily avoided special case).


> There *are* _some_ legitimate complaints to be made about the CPython
> runtime. :)

This isn't one of them.

xrange has been part of Python for 10 years.

If there are any complaints to be made about this situation it's that
there are any 2.x learning materials anythere that continue to use
range() and not xrange() in this context.


Carl Banks


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 22:12:20 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 19:12:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
References:  
	<02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	 
	
	<4434e799-d907-49ca-93ee-a4be3276f9c2@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3c0abe16-f05a-4c5f-9773-f813bc424f14@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 16, 3:35?pm, sturlamolden  wrote:
> On 16 Aug, 14:57, Dennis Lee Bieber  wrote:
>
> > ? ? ? ? Well, the alternative would be to have two keywords for looping: one
> > for your "simple" incrementing integer loop, and another for a loop that
> > operates over the elements of some collection type.
>
> A compiler could easily recognise a statement like
>
> ? ?for i in range(n):
>
> as a simple integer loop.

It would be a simple to do if you were writing it for a different
langauge was a lot less dynamic than Python is.  It'd be quite a
complex hack to add it to CPython's compiler while maintaing the
current highly dynamic runtime semantics and backwards compatibility,
which is a design constraint of Python whether you like it or not.

And all this complaining about an issue that can be worked around by
xrange instead of range.  Sheesh.


> In fact, Cython is able to do this.

Cython can do this easily because it is a different language that is a
lot less dynamic than Python.

If you don't care about the dynamic stuff why don't you just use
Cython?  Or quit complaining and just use xrange.


Carl Banks


From nobody at nowhere.com  Sun Aug 16 22:21:43 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 03:21:43 +0100
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in
	string literals]
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	
	
	<5fcd454d-14b4-452b-91d3-938e9fa0bd18@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<02975ce6$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<029783cd$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 05:05:01 +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> Now that I understand what the semantics of cout << "Hello world" are, I 
> don't have any problem with it either. It is a bit weird, "Hello world" 
> >> cout would probably be better,

Placing the stream on the LHS allows the main forms of << to be
implemented as methods of the ostream class. C++ only considers the LHS
operand when attempting to resolve an infix operator as a method.

Also, << and >> are left-associative, and that cannot be changed by
overloading. Having the ostream on the LHS allows the operators to be
chained:

	cout << "Hello" << ", " << "world" << endl

equivalent to:

	(((cout << "Hello") << ", ") << "world") << endl

[operator<< returns the ostream as its result.]

Even if you could make >> right-associative, the values would have to be
written right-to-left:

	endl >> "world" >> ", " >> "Hello" >> cout
i.e.:
	endl >> ("world" >> (", " >> ("Hello" >> cout)))



From benjamin at python.org  Sun Aug 16 22:55:14 2009
From: benjamin at python.org (Benjamin Peterson)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 21:55:14 -0500
Subject: [RELEASED] Python 3.1.1
Message-ID: <1afaf6160908161955k6968c378md76ec37cba4865aa@mail.gmail.com>

On behalf of the Python development team, I'm happy to announce the first bugfix
release of the Python 3.1 series, Python 3.1.1.

This bug fix release fixes many normal bugs and several critical ones including
potential data corruption in the io library.

Python 3.1 focuses on the stabilization and optimization of the features and
changes that Python 3.0 introduced.  For example, the new I/O system has been
rewritten in C for speed.  File system APIs that use unicode strings now handle
paths with undecodable bytes in them. Other features include an ordered
dictionary implementation, a condensed syntax for nested with statements, and
support for ttk Tile in Tkinter.  For a more extensive list of changes in 3.1,
see http://doc.python.org/3.1/whatsnew/3.1.html or Misc/NEWS in the Python
distribution.

Please note the Windows and Mac binaries are not available yet but
will be in the coming days.

To download Python 3.1.1 visit:

     http://www.python.org/download/releases/3.1.1/

The 3.1 documentation can be found at:

     http://docs.python.org/3.1

Bugs can always be reported to:

     http://bugs.python.org


Enjoy!

--
Benjamin Peterson
Release Manager
benjamin at python.org
(on behalf of the entire python-dev team and 3.1.1's contributors)


From xahlee at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 23:00:23 2009
From: xahlee at gmail.com (Xah Lee)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 20:00:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<269572f2-5968-479b-a7e6-d3354a769250@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Thanks Raymond.

I've been out of python community for a couple of years. I've saved
your messages and will study it later when next time i work in python.
Possibly today and will reply in some of your points.

But just wanted to say thanks for improving python.

Also, sometimes ago out of the blue i noticed someone has posted a bug
on python's gzip doc with acknowledgement. http://bugs.python.org/issue2406

Thank you M.-A. DARCHE (madarche).

Also, i noticed python doc now and later has improved a lot since last
i looked around python 2.4. For one thing, the html/xhtml is now valid
html. Good riddence of the fucking TeX. Also, code examples have
syntax coloring on.

  Xah
? http://xahlee.org/

?


On Aug 12, 12:15 pm, Raymond Hettinger  wrote:
> [Xah Lee]
>
> > i've wrote several articles about this issue, total time spend on this
> > is probably more than 2 months full-time work. See:
>
> > ? Python Documentation Problems
> >  http://xahlee.org/perl-python/python_doc_index.html
>
> I just read you post.   You did devote a substantial amount of time
> to the project.  Some of your criticisms are valid.  Wish you had
> posted patches, I think many of them would have been accepted.
>
> Since you wrote this a few years ago, many examples have
> been added to the docs and more are forthcoming.
>
> > I often receive thank you emails for 2 particular articles, which are
> > most frequently google searched as indicated by my weblog:
>
> > ? Python Doc Problem Example: gzip
> >  http://xahlee.org/perl-python/python_doc_gzip.html
>
> > ? Python Doc Problem Example: sort()
> >  http://xahlee.org/perl-python/python_doc_sort.html
>
> > ? Sorting in Python and Perl
> >  http://xahlee.org/perl-python/sort_list.html
>
> Some are the criticisms are valid; others seem off-base.
>
> Here are a few thoughts on list.sort() for those who are interested:
>
> * The key= and reversed= parameters are not intended for special
> cases, leaving cmp= for the general case.  They were intended to
> be full replacements.  In Python3.x, the cmp function is gone.
>
> * The interaction of the key= and cmp= functions can be made to
> interact (the key function is first applied to every element and
> the cmp function then gets applied to the results of the key
> function).  This isn't a normal or intended use case, so the docs
> don't delve into the subject.
>
> * The reversed parameter does more than list.sort() followed by
> list.reverse().  It also preserves stability in the event of equal
> keys:
>
>    >>> sorted([(1,2), (1,3)], key=itemgetter(0), reverse=True)
>    [(1,2), (1,3)]
>
> So it was not correct to say that the following are equivalent:
>
>     li.sort(lambda x, y: cmp(x[1],y[1]), reverse=True)
>     li.sort(lambda x, y: cmp(y[1],x[1]))
>
> * We should link the sorted() and list.sort() docs to the
> sorting how-to (with a fuller discussion on the art of sorting
> including a discussion of operator.itemgetter() and
> operator.attrgetter() which were designed to work with the key=
> parameter.
>
> Raymond


From nobody at nowhere.com  Sun Aug 16 23:10:17 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 04:10:17 +0100
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
References: <24980842.post@talk.nabble.com> <4A8612CE.7080700@stoneleaf.us>
	<200908160830.55031.emmanuel.surleau@gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 11:41:21 -0400, Benjamin Kaplan wrote:

> It's not that the code is bad, but too many people coming from Java
> and C keep thinking of for loops like they're using Java or C and
> therefore that "for i in range(a,b)" is identical to "for(int i = a; i
> < b; i++)". It's not and, for the most part, you shouldn't code like
> that. Since you're using numbers, range/xrange is the appropriate
> idiom but you still have to remember that a for loop in python doesn't
> loop until a condition is met, it loops through an iterator until the
> interator says it's done.

Java also has iterators; it's more a case of people coming from C and BASIC.

Although, some of those may have come *through* Java without abandoning
old habits. You see the same thing with people coming from BASIC to C and
writing:

	#define NUM_DATES 50
	int day[NUM_DATES], month[NUM_DATES], year[NUM_DATES];

rather than defining a "struct".

Sometimes referred to as "I know ten languages and can write in BASIC in
all of them".



From nobody at nowhere.com  Sun Aug 16 23:32:07 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 04:32:07 +0100
Subject: wxFormBuilder finally supports wxPython
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 03:19:51 -0700, sturlamolden wrote:

> Version 3.1 of wxFormBuilder can generate wxPython code. I have
> previously used wxFormBuilder to generate XRC files for my wxPython
> projects. Though still in beta, this might be even better. :-)

Is there a reason to prefer code over XRC?



From jon at ffconsultancy.com  Mon Aug 17 00:05:46 2009
From: jon at ffconsultancy.com (Jon Harrop)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 05:05:46 +0100
Subject: Xah's Edu Corner: The importance of syntax & notations.
References: 
	<4a882e2d$0$9897$80265adb@spool.cs.wisc.edu>
	<5031edcc-c63e-4a3b-9f12-caba0cc34e92@r18g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

w_a_x_man wrote:
> On Aug 16, 11:05?am, Petey Keller  wrote:
>>  Compiler go through *great* pains
> 
> Compiler work real hard.
> Compiler have heap big trouble.

ROTFL. :-)

-- 
Dr Jon D Harrop, Flying Frog Consultancy Ltd.
http://www.ffconsultancy.com/?u


From xahlee at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 00:43:48 2009
From: xahlee at gmail.com (Xah Lee)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 21:43:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: python doc available in emacs info format?
Message-ID: 

btw, is there still info format for python doc?

i feel kinda sad that emacs info format has pretty much been
deprecated over the past decade. About a decade ago, you still will
see now and then people asking for emacs info format of docs (was the
days of perl). Today, one don't hear of it.

Part of this is due to emacs cult problem. See:

? Emacs Modernization
  http://xahlee.org/emacs/emacs_modernization.html

? Emacs Should Adopt HTML To Replace Texinfo
  http://xahlee.org/emacs/modernization_html_vs_info.html

? Language, Purity, Cult, and Deception
  http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/lang_purity_cult_deception.html

  Xah
? http://xahlee.org/

?

On Dec 11 2008, 6:56 am, Matthias  wrote:
> Xah Lee  writes:
> > in programing elisp in emacs, i can press ?Ctrl+h f? to lookup
> > the doc for the function under cursor.   is there such facility
> > when coding in perl, python, php?
>
> Yes, try C-h S (or similarly  S):
>
>      (info-lookup-symbol SYMBOL &optional MODE)  Display the
> definition of SYMBOL, as found in the relevant manual. When this
> command is called interactively, it reads SYMBOL from the
> minibuffer.
>
> Note that `the relevant manual' means an info file. With recent
> emacsen on an Ubuntu distro, python arrives with info files and
> everything is well configured. It also works with bash, latex, perl,
> scheme, elisp, awk, texinfo, makefile, libc, or any info file with an
> index.
> --
> Matthias


From psilord at merlin.cs.wisc.edu  Mon Aug 17 01:22:44 2009
From: psilord at merlin.cs.wisc.edu (Peter Keller)
Date: 17 Aug 2009 05:22:44 GMT
Subject: Xah's Edu Corner: The importance of syntax & notations.
References: 
	<4a882e2d$0$9897$80265adb@spool.cs.wisc.edu>
	<4f0af709-527a-47db-8a8a-b0b42c6fe34d@d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a88e924$0$9895$80265adb@spool.cs.wisc.edu>

In comp.lang.scheme toby  wrote:
> In my opinion Knuth believed in the value of literate programming for
> similar reasons: To try to exploit existing cognitive training. If
> your user base is familiar with English, or mathematical notation, or
> some other lexicography, try to exploit the pre-wired associations.
> Clearly this involves some intuition.

I've dabbled in the linguistics field a little bit and this thread made
me remember a certain topic delineated in this paper:

http://complex.upf.es/~ricard/SWPRS.pdf

This paper uses a concept that I would say needs more investigation:

The mapping of syntax onto metric spaces.

In fact, the paper literally makes a statement about how physically
close two words are when mapped onto a line of text and language networks
build graph topologies based upon the distance of words from each other
as they relate in syntactical form.

It seems the foundations for being able to construct a metric to "measure"
syntax is somewhat available. If you squint at the math in the above
paper, you can see how it can apply to multidimensional metric spaces
and syntax in different modalities (like the comparison between
reading written words and hearing spoken words).

For example, here the same semantic idea in a regex defined three ways:

english-like:

Match the letter "a" followed by one or more letter "p"s followed by the 
letter "l" then optionaly the letter "e".

scheme-like:

(regex (char-class \#a) (re+ (char-class \#p)) (char-class \#l)
       (re? (char-class \#e)))

perl-like:

/ap+le?/

The perl-like one would be the one chosen by most programmers, but the
various reasons why it is chosen will fluctuate. Can we do better? Can
we give a predictable measurement of some syntactic quantities that
we can optimize and get a predictable answer? 

Most people would say the perl-like form has the least amount of
"syntactic garbage" and is "short". How do we meaningfully define those
two terms? One might say "syntactic garbage" is syntax which doesn't
relate *at all* to the actual semantic objects, and "short" might mean
elimination of redundant syntax and/or transformation of explicit syntax
into implicit syntax already available in the metric space.

What do I mean by explicit versus implicit? 

In the scheme-like form, we explicitly denote the evaluation and class
of the various semantic objects of the regex before applying the "regex"
function across the evaluated arguments. Whitespace is used to separate
the morphemes of only the scheme syntax. The embedding metric space
of the syntax (meaning the line of text indexed by character position)
does nothing to help or hinder the expression of the semantic objects.

In the perl-like form, we implicitly denote the evaluation of the regex
by using a prototyping-based syntax, meaning the inherent qualities of
the embedding metric space are utilized. This specifically means that
evaluation happens left to right in reading order and semantic objects
evaluate directly to themselves and take as arguments semantic objects as
related directly in the embedding metric space. For example, the ? takes
as an argument the semantic object at location index[?]-1. Grouping
parenthsis act as a VERY simple tokenization system to group multiple
objects into one syntactical datum. Given the analysis, it seems the
perl-like regex generally auto-quote themselves as an advantageous use
of the embeded metric space in which they reside (aka the line of text).

The english-like form is the worst for explicit modeling because it
abstracts the semantic objects into a meta-space that is then referenced
by the syntax in the embedding space of the line itself.  In human
reasoning, that is what the quotes mean.

Out of the three syntax models, only the perl one has no redundant syntax
and takes up the smallest amount of the metric space into which it is
embedded--clearly seen by observation.

Consider if we have quantities "syntactic datums" versus "semantic objects",
then one might make an equation like this:

                 semantic objects
expressiveness = ----------------
                 syntactic datums

And of course, expressiveness rises as semantic objects begin to outweigh
syntactic objects. This seems a very reasonable, although simplistic,
model to me and would be a good start in my estimation. I say simplistic
because the semantic objects are not taken in relation to themselves
on the metric space the syntactic datums are embeded, I'll get to this
in a bit.

Now, what do we do with the above equation, well, we define what we can, and
then optimize the hell out of it. "semantic objects" for a computer
language is probably a fixed quantity, there are only so many operators and
grouping constructs, and usually very few, meaning one, function description
semantic objects. So, we are left with a free variable of "syntactic datums"
that we should minimize to be as small as possible.

If we don't take into consideration the topological mapping of
the semantic objects into the syntactic datum space, then the
number of semantic objects at least equals the number of syntactic
datums. Expressiveness is simply one in the best case, and this would
be pretty poor for sure. It could be worse--just add redundant syntactic
datums, now it is worse!

If we take into consideration the mapping of the semantic objects onto the
metric space, then maybe this becomes the new equation:

                 distance(index[obj1], index[obj2], ..., index[objn])
expressiveness = ----------------------------------------------------
                 syntactic datums

The distance() function in this new model is the centroid of the syntactic
datum which represent the semantic object. (Of course, there are other
models of expressiveness which would need to be explored based upon this
incremental idea I'm presenting.)

Larger distances between semantic objects, or larger syntactic constructs,
would mean less expressiveness.  This is interesting, because it can give
a rough number that sorts the three syntactic models I provided for the
regex and it would follow conventional wisdom. This is a decriptivist
model of syntax measurement.

Obviously, the fun is can we search an optimization tree to try find an
optimal set of syntactic datums to represent a known and finite set of
semantic objects taking into consideration the features of the metric
space into which the syntactic datums are embedded?

Maybe for another day.... 

Later,
-pete






From xahlee at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 01:32:07 2009
From: xahlee at gmail.com (Xah Lee)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 22:32:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Xah's Edu Corner: The importance of syntax & notations.
References: 
Message-ID: <25203724-bf60-484f-9ede-e61c45f15e33@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>

Personally, particular interesting info i've learned is that, for all
my trouble in the past decade expressing problems of traditional math
notation, i learned from his article this single-phrase summary:
?traditional math notation lacks a grammar?.

The article is somewhat disappointing though. I was expecting he'd go
into some details about the science of math notations, or, as he put
it aptly: ?linguistics of math notations?. However, he didn't touch
the subject, except saying that it haven't been studied.

 Xah

On Aug 15, 10:54?pm, Xah Lee  wrote:
> Xah's Edu Corner: The importance of syntax & notations.
>
> http://www.stephenwolfram.com/publications/recent/mathml/mathml_abstr...
>
> this article should teach the coding sophomorons and computer
> ?science? idiotic authors who harbor the notion that syntax is not
> important, picked up by all the elite i-reddit & twittering & ?hacker
> news am-hip dunces.
>
> Further readings:
>
> ? The TeX Pestilence
> ?http://xahlee.org/cmaci/notation/TeX_pestilence.html
>
> ? A Notation for Plane Geometry
> ?http://xahlee.org/cmaci/notation/plane_geometry_notation.html
>
> ? The Concepts and Confusions of Prefix, Infix, Postfix and Fully
> Nested Notations
> ?http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/notations.html
>
> ? The Problems of Traditional Math Notation
> ?http://xahlee.org/cmaci/notation/trad_math_notation.html
>
> ? Xah
> ?http://xahlee.org/
>
> ?



From psilord at merlin.cs.wisc.edu  Mon Aug 17 01:39:48 2009
From: psilord at merlin.cs.wisc.edu (Peter Keller)
Date: 17 Aug 2009 05:39:48 GMT
Subject: Xah's Edu Corner: The importance of syntax & notations.
References: 
	<4a882e2d$0$9897$80265adb@spool.cs.wisc.edu>
	<4f0af709-527a-47db-8a8a-b0b42c6fe34d@d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4a88e924$0$9895$80265adb@spool.cs.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <4a88ed24$0$9896$80265adb@spool.cs.wisc.edu>

In comp.lang.scheme Peter Keller  wrote:
> The distance() function in this new model is the centroid of the syntactic
> datum which represent the semantic object.

Oops.

I meant to say:

"The distance() function in this new model uses the centroid of each
individual syntactic datum (which represents the semantic object) as
the location for each semantic object."

Sorry.

-pete


From ranjithpmathew at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 01:59:02 2009
From: ranjithpmathew at gmail.com (L@D@n)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 22:59:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: GUI interface builder for python
Message-ID: 

Which is the best GUI interface builder with drag and drop
capabilities.
I am using Ubuntu GNU/Linux.
Please help me.
Thank you.


From jasevv at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 02:12:42 2009
From: jasevv at gmail.com (Jaseem)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 23:12:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: GUI interface builder for python
References: 
Message-ID: <1960c134-b4a0-4b96-bd58-1cf00dab9d72@d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 17, 10:59?am, "L at D@n"  wrote:
> Which is the best GUI interface builder with drag and drop
> capabilities.
> I am using Ubuntu GNU/Linux.
> Please help me.
> Thank you.

There are many GUI builders for python. (Have to deal with the
licensing issues.)
Qt has a GUI builder.
Glade (GTK+) for python is also good.
Boa constructor is also nice.


From kkylheku at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 02:42:01 2009
From: kkylheku at gmail.com (Kaz Kylheku)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 06:42:01 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Xah's Edu Corner: The importance of syntax & notations.
References: 
	<4a882e2d$0$9897$80265adb@spool.cs.wisc.edu>
	<4f0af709-527a-47db-8a8a-b0b42c6fe34d@d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4a88e924$0$9895$80265adb@spool.cs.wisc.edu>
	<4a88ed24$0$9896$80265adb@spool.cs.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <20090826140229.540@gmail.com>

["Followup-To:" header set to comp.lang.lisp.]
On 2009-08-17, Peter Keller  wrote:
> In comp.lang.scheme Peter Keller  wrote:
>> The distance() function in this new model is the centroid of the syntactic
>> datum which represent the semantic object.
>
> Oops.
>
> I meant to say:
>
> "The distance() function in this new model uses the centroid of each
> individual syntactic datum (which represents the semantic object) as
> the location for each semantic object."

Don't sweat it; either way it makes no sense. The rewrite does have a more
journal-publishable feel to it, though: the centroid of the whole aromatic
diffusion seems to hover more precisely above the site of the bovine waste from
which it apparently emanates.


From xahlee at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 02:50:27 2009
From: xahlee at gmail.com (Xah Lee)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 23:50:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<269572f2-5968-479b-a7e6-d3354a769250@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com> 
	<60bd3cab-1cab-4677-b640-8d126343615a@d9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 12, 12:15 pm, Raymond Hettinger  wrote:
> [Xah Lee]
>
> > i've wrote several articles about this issue, total time spend on this
> > is probably more than 2 months full-time work. See:
>
> > ? Python Documentation Problems
> >  http://xahlee.org/perl-python/python_doc_index.html
>
> I just read you post.   You did devote a substantial amount of time
> to the project.  Some of your criticisms are valid.  Wish you had
> posted patches, I think many of them would have been accepted.
>
> Since you wrote this a few years ago, many examples have
> been added to the docs and more are forthcoming.
>
> > I often receive thank you emails for 2 particular articles, which are
> > most frequently google searched as indicated by my weblog:
>
> > ? Python Doc Problem Example: gzip
> >  http://xahlee.org/perl-python/python_doc_gzip.html
>
> > ? Python Doc Problem Example: sort()
> >  http://xahlee.org/perl-python/python_doc_sort.html
>
> > ? Sorting in Python and Perl
> >  http://xahlee.org/perl-python/sort_list.html
>
> Some are the criticisms are valid; others seem off-base.
>
> Here are a few thoughts on list.sort() for those who are interested:
>
> * The key= and reversed= parameters are not intended for special
> cases, leaving cmp= for the general case.  They were intended to
> be full replacements.  In Python3.x, the cmp function is gone.
>
> * The interaction of the key= and cmp= functions can be made to
> interact (the key function is first applied to every element and
> the cmp function then gets applied to the results of the key
> function).  This isn't a normal or intended use case, so the docs
> don't delve into the subject.
>
> * The reversed parameter does more than list.sort() followed by
> list.reverse().  It also preserves stability in the event of equal
> keys:
>
>    >>> sorted([(1,2), (1,3)], key=itemgetter(0), reverse=True)
>    [(1,2), (1,3)]
>
> So it was not correct to say that the following are equivalent:
>
>     li.sort(lambda x, y: cmp(x[1],y[1]), reverse=True)
>     li.sort(lambda x, y: cmp(y[1],x[1]))
>
> * We should link the sorted() and list.sort() docs to the
> sorting how-to (with a fuller discussion on the art of sorting
> including a discussion of operator.itemgetter() and
> operator.attrgetter() which were designed to work with the key=
> parameter.

> > Here are a few thoughts on list.sort() for those who are interested:
>
> After one more reading of Xah Lee's posts on the documentation for
> sort,
> here are couple more thoughts:
>
> * The reason that list.sort() allows None for the cmp parameter is not
> so that you can write list.sort(None).  It was put there to make it
> easier for people writing function definitions where the cmp function
> is a possible argument:
>
>    def sort_and_chop(seq, maxlen, cmp=None):
>        s = seq[:]
>        s.sort(cmp)           # needs to accept None as a possible
> argument
>        return s[:maxlen]
>
> * The reason for implementing the key= parameter had nothing to do
> with limitations of Python's compiler.  Instead, it was inspired by
> the
> decorate-sort-undecorate pattern.

Hi Raymond,

thanks for the many points. They are informative, some i disagree, but
it's getting into detail. I don't know python 3.0, will have to look
into its sort in the future.

This part i don't particular agree:

> * The reason for implementing the key= parameter had nothing to do
> with limitations of Python's compiler.  Instead, it was inspired by
> the
> decorate-sort-undecorate pattern.

The decorate-sort-undecorate pattern is a compiler limitation, for
most of today's langs. I'm not sure, but i think some of the fancy
functional langs automatically detect such and optimize it away, to
various degrees.

... my criticism is usually written in a style catered to irritate a
particular class of coder i call tech geekers (they think of themselfs
with their idiotic term ?hackers?). So, parts are exaggerated. It'd be
more clear to say, that the reason for python's ?key?, and as a
?solution? or need of the decorate-sort-undecorate issue, can be
attributed to the current state of the art of popular imperative
language's compilers (induced by such lang's semantics).

again, i haven't studied python 3.0 to see what it has changed with
sort, and thanks for the informative post. I find it intriguing that
it doesn't have ?cmp? anymore as you say.... maybe when i actually
study it and i'll come away with rage and rants. LOL.

  Xah
? http://xahlee.org/

?


From contact at xavierho.com  Mon Aug 17 03:09:14 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:09:14 +1000
Subject: What happened to __cmp__() in Python 3.x?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <2d56febf0908150509k1b6a3b98j7e76ae6596108280@mail.gmail.com>
	<50697b2c0908160104k7d74ace9jda8f4b927402942@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<2d56febf0908160458k3b5197d8tf1a69e3083ab3146@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908170009i7ce4f53tb89ffde60d09a2bc@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 10:33 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:

>
> I wasn't discussing __cmp__, I was referring to the quote by Chris Rebert
> from the Python docs regarding the rich comparison methods, a discrepancy
> between the documentation and the implementation as noted in the link that I
> gave, and an indication that the issue raised on this discrepancy is still
> open.  As Terry Reedy has mentioned __lt__ elsewhere, you should be aware of
> the discrepancy, otherwise you could go charging off down the wrong track.
>  FWIW it was Terry who raised the issue 4395, I'm sure that he could explain
> the ramifications of it all far better than I ever could, so I'll sign out.


Oh, I see. Thanks for informing then. =)

Cheers,
Xav
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From sleepy at cabbage.co.uk  Mon Aug 17 03:23:55 2009
From: sleepy at cabbage.co.uk (Sleepy Cabbage)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 07:23:55 GMT
Subject: get the pause status from amarok 2.1
References: 
	<7eku4bF2gtku3U2@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<3avhm.248709$bA.165466@newsfe16.ams2>
Message-ID: 

On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 09:25:19 +0000, Sleepy Cabbage wrote:

> On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 12:55:07 +0200, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> 
>> Sleepy Cabbage schrieb:
>>> As the title says, I'm trying to find a way to get the pause status
>>> from amarok 2.1.
>>> 
>>> I'm running kubuntu 9.04 with kde 4.2.2, python 2.6.2.
>>> 
>>> Thanks in advance.
>> 
>> Not at my linux-system right now, but dcop and the respective
>> python-module should help.
>> 
>> Diez
> 
> Thanks for you reply Diez. i'm sure that kde4.2 now uses qdbus instead
> of dcop and not sure whether amarok has the qdbus org.kde.amarok /Player
> GetStatus as it returns the following: qdbus: I don't know how to
> display an argument of type '(iiii)'

'dbus --literal org.kde.amarok /Player 
org.freedesktop.MediaPlayer.GetStatus'


From sleepy at cabbage.co.uk  Mon Aug 17 03:25:22 2009
From: sleepy at cabbage.co.uk (Sleepy Cabbage)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 07:25:22 GMT
Subject: get the pause status from amarok 2.1
References: 
	<7eku4bF2gtku3U2@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<3avhm.248709$bA.165466@newsfe16.ams2>
	
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 07:23:55 +0000, Sleepy Cabbage wrote:

> On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 09:25:19 +0000, Sleepy Cabbage wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 12:55:07 +0200, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
>> 
>>> Sleepy Cabbage schrieb:
>>>> As the title says, I'm trying to find a way to get the pause status
>>>> from amarok 2.1.
>>>> 
>>>> I'm running kubuntu 9.04 with kde 4.2.2, python 2.6.2.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks in advance.
>>> 
>>> Not at my linux-system right now, but dcop and the respective
>>> python-module should help.
>>> 
>>> Diez
>> 
>> Thanks for you reply Diez. i'm sure that kde4.2 now uses qdbus instead
>> of dcop and not sure whether amarok has the qdbus org.kde.amarok
>> /Player GetStatus as it returns the following: qdbus: I don't know how
>> to display an argument of type '(iiii)'
> 
> 'dbus --literal org.kde.amarok /Player
> org.freedesktop.MediaPlayer.GetStatus'

Ref my last post: This works!!


From xahlee at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 03:25:24 2009
From: xahlee at gmail.com (Xah Lee)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 00:25:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: python doc available in emacs info format?
References: 
Message-ID: <4aba0b60-0aff-419a-877a-cac1e0e448ee@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

info format for Xah Lee writes:
> in programing elisp in emacs, i can press ?Ctrl+h f? to lookup
> the doc for the function under cursor.   is there such facility
> when coding in perl, python, php?


 On Dec 11 2008, 6:56 am, Matthias  wrote:
> Yes, try C-h S (or similarly  S):

>      (info-lookup-symbol SYMBOL &optional MODE)  Display the
> definition of SYMBOL, as found in the relevant manual. When this
> command is called interactively, it reads SYMBOL from the
> minibuffer.

> Note that `the relevant manual' means an info file. With recent
> emacsen on an Ubuntu distro, python arrives with info files and
> everything is well configured. It also works with bash, latex, perl,
> scheme, elisp, awk, texinfo, makefile, libc, or any info file with an
> index.

I noticed that Matthias actually mentioned that info docs is available
and bundled out of the box on Ubuntu linux for many popular langs, as
of 2008-12.

Is that true? Where can i download these info files? As far as i know,
a little google search or official doc sites usually don't have a
download for info format.

I'm interested in getting current version doc for perl, python, php,
and ruby.

Thanks.

  Xah
? http://xahlee.org/

?


From sjoerd at acm.org  Mon Aug 17 04:29:17 2009
From: sjoerd at acm.org (Sjoerd Mullender)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 10:29:17 +0200
Subject: zip codes
In-Reply-To: 
References: <35833d36-2fdc-4ed8-8142-604af3c88afe@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4A8914DD.4000307@acm.org>

Martin P. Hellwig wrote:
> Shailen wrote:
>> Is there any Python module that helps with US and foreign zip-code
>> lookups? I'm thinking of something that provides basic mappings of zip
>> to cities, city to zips, etc. Since this kind of information is so
>> often used for basic user-registration, I'm assuming functionality of
>> this sort must be available for Python. Any suggestions will be much
>> appreciated.
>>
> There might be an associated can of worms here, for example in the
> Netherlands zip codes are actually copyrighted and require a license if
> you want to do something with them, on the other hand you get a nice SQL
> formatted db to use it. I don't know how this works in other countries
> but I imagine that it is likely to be generally the same.
> 

Also in The Netherlands, ZIP codes are much more fine-grained than in
some other countries: ZIP code plus house number together are sufficient
to uniquely identify an address.  I.e. you don't need the street name.
E.g., my work address has ZIP code 1098 XG and house number 123, so
together they indicate that I work at Science Park 123, Amsterdam.

In other words, a simple city <-> ZIP mapping is not sufficient.

-- 
Sjoerd Mullender

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From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Mon Aug 17 05:36:18 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:36:18 +0200
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a Serial
	port?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <200908171136.18188.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Sunday 16 August 2009 15:55:31 Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2009-08-15, Hendrik van Rooyen  wrote:

> > I am still confused about pyserial and serial - I found serial
> > in my distribution library, (on the SuSe machine, not on the
> > 2.5 in Slackware) but I had to download pyserial.
>
> That's very interesting.  Is the pre-existing "serial" a
> version of pyserial that the packager had pre-installed or is
> it something else?  I didn't know any distributions shipped

I am not too sure now - when I looked in the packages directory over the 
weekend it was there.  But I am really not sure how it got there - I cannot 
recall downloading it myself, but that means nothing as I have been using 
this machine for a while now, so it is possible that I did it some time ago 
and forgotten about it, without ever using it.   Possible, but unlikely. I 
would like to think that if I downloaded it, I would have tried it, and then 
I would have remembered.

Sorry to be so vague.

Does this help?

hvr at Linuxbox:~> python
Python 2.5.1 (r251:54863, Dec  6 2008, 10:49:39)
[GCC 4.2.1 (SUSE Linux)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import serial
>>> dir(serial)
['EIGHTBITS', 'FCNTL', 'FIVEBITS', 'FileLike', 'PARITY_EVEN', 'PARITY_NAMES',
 'PARITY_NONE', 'PARITY_ODD', 'SEVENBITS', 'SIXBITS', 'STOPBITS_ONE', 
'STOPBITS_TWO', 'Serial', 'SerialBase', 'SerialException', 'SerialTimeoutException',
 'TERMIOS', 'TIOCINQ', 'TIOCMBIC', 'TIOCMBIS', 'TIOCMGET', 'TIOCMSET', 'TIOCM_CAR', 
'TIOCM_CD', 'TIOCM_CTS', 'TIOCM_DSR', 'TIOCM_DTR', 'TIOCM_DTR_str', 'TIOCM_RI', 
'TIOCM_RNG', 'TIOCM_RTS', 'TIOCM_RTS_str', 'TIOCM_zero_str', 'VERSION', 'XOFF', 'XON',
 '__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__', '__path__', 'device', 'errno', 'fcntl', 'os', 'plat', 
'portNotOpenError', 'select', 'serialposix', 'serialutil', 'string', 'struct', 'sys', 'termios', 'writeTimeoutError']
>>> serial.VERSION
'1.27'

- Hendrik



From fas at cs.stir.ac.uk  Mon Aug 17 05:38:15 2009
From: fas at cs.stir.ac.uk (Farhan Sheikh)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 10:38:15 +0100
Subject: Uninstalling mac python2.5 to install python2.6
Message-ID: <83423F73-83DA-436B-A3BA-E83CD61CD28D@cs.stir.ac.uk>


Dear all,

i originally had python2.5 on my mac at the univeristy and had to get  
2.6 to get NEST and pyNN to work together. however now as those are  
now installed, i had to install numpy.

As i installed numpy, it only installed its directories into the  
python2.5 folders and as i am new to to mac terminals i don't know how  
to change its directories to be installed into python2.6. my question  
is, do i have to uninstall python 2.5 so that only python2.6 is on the  
machine or is there a way to change the path so it saves into python2.5?

Thanking You

Farhan

-- 
Academic Excellence at the Heart of Scotland.
The University of Stirling is a charity registered in Scotland, 
 number SC 011159.



From xahlee at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 05:42:42 2009
From: xahlee at gmail.com (Xah Lee)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 02:42:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Xah's Edu Corner: The importance of syntax & notations.
References: 
	<25203724-bf60-484f-9ede-e61c45f15e33@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

2009-08-17

On Aug 16, 10:32 pm, Xah Lee  wrote:
> Personally, particular interesting info i've learned is that, for all
> my trouble in the past decade expressing problems of traditional math
> notation, i learned from his article this single-phrase summary:
> ?traditional math notation lacks a grammar?.

> The article is somewhat disappointing though. I was expecting he'd go
> into some details about the science of math notations, or, as he put
> it aptly: ?linguistics of math notations?. However, he didn't touch
> the subject, except saying that it haven't been studied.

upon a more detailed reading of Stephen's article, i discovered some
errors.

On this page:
http://www.stephenwolfram.com/publications/recent/mathml/mathml2.html

he mentions the Plimpton 322 tablet. It is widely taught in math
history books, that this table is pythagorean triples.

On reading his article, i wanted to refresh my understanding of the
subject, so i looked up Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plimpton_322

and behold!

apparantly, in recent academic publications, it is suggested that this
is not pythagorean triples, but rather: ?a list of regular reciprocal
pairs?.

  Xah
? http://xahlee.org/

?

On Aug 15, 10:54 pm, Xah Lee  wrote:
> Xah's Edu Corner: The importance of syntax & notations.

>http://www.stephenwolfram.com/publications/recent/mathml/mathml_abstr...

> this article should teach the coding sophomorons and computer
> ?science? idiotic authors who harbor the notion that syntax is not
> important, picked up by all the elite i-reddit & twittering &  hacker
> news am-hip dunces.

> Further readings:

> ? The TeX Pestilence
>  http://xahlee.org/cmaci/notation/TeX_pestilence.html

> ? A Notation for Plane Geometry
>  http://xahlee.org/cmaci/notation/plane_geometry_notation.html

> ? The Concepts and Confusions of Prefix, Infix, Postfix and Fully
> Nested Notations
>  http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/notations.html

> ? The Problems of Traditional Math Notation
>  http://xahlee.org/cmaci/notation/trad_math_notation.html


From pierre.gaillard at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 05:50:03 2009
From: pierre.gaillard at gmail.com (Pierre)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 02:50:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: sub-list extraction, logical indexation
Message-ID: 

Hello Everyone,

I would like to know if it is possible to extract a sub-list from a
list ?

typically if :

L =[[1, 2, 3],[4, 5, 6],[3] ]

How to extract easily the elements 0 and 2 of L in order to get :

L2 =[[1, 2, 3],[3] ]

Moreover, I would like to know if it is possible to use logical
indexation such that :

index = [ True, False, True]
L2 = L

or usual indexation, something like
index=[0, 2]
L2 = L

I tried, but failed...
Thanks for your help

Pierre


From indermeet.gandhi at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 05:55:37 2009
From: indermeet.gandhi at gmail.com (inder)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 02:55:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: XML parsing with python
Message-ID: 

Hi All,

I am new to xml . I need to parse the xml file . After reading and
browsing on the web , I could get much help .

I guess SAX would be better suited for my requirement .

Could some juct provide me a sample python code so that I can execute
it and see how the parsing actually happens .

Lets say my xml file -


  GLADE

xwPython --> wxFormBuilder

PyQt --> QtDesigner





From exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  Mon Aug 17 07:43:15 2009
From: exarkun at twistedmatrix.com (exarkun at twistedmatrix.com)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:43:15 -0000
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
In-Reply-To: <900c0d5e-a41a-4820-9844-816afa1a33c9@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<4434e799-d907-49ca-93ee-a4be3276f9c2@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<900c0d5e-a41a-4820-9844-816afa1a33c9@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20090817114315.8740.284099123.divmod.xquotient.27@localhost.localdomain>

On 01:53 am, pavlovevidence at gmail.com wrote:
>On Aug 16, 6:28?pm, exar... at twistedmatrix.com wrote:
>>On 01:23 am, benjamin.kap... at case.edu wrote:
>>
>> >On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 6:35 PM, sturlamolden 
>> >wrote:
>>
>> >>A compiler could easily recognise a statement like
>>
>> >>? for i in range(n):
>>
>> >>as a simple integer loop. In fact, Cython is able to do this.
>>
>> >but special cases aren't special enough to break the rules.
>>
>>Although I think PyPy also recognizes this case and makes it as
>>efficient as using xrange, and does so without breaking any rules.
>
>PyPy uses a JIT compiler (which is still slower than CPython,
>suggesting that perhaps they should have spent more time optimizing
>the general case than optimizing for an easily avoided special case).

It's true that PyPy has a JIT compiler (which is still slower than 
CPython).  However, this isn't where the range speedup comes from.  The 
range optimization is handled specifically in the implementation of 
range (or possibly of list, or a combination of the two, I can't 
remember exactly).  It's effective even when the JIT compiler is 
disabled.
>
>>There *are* _some_ legitimate complaints to be made about the CPython
>>runtime. :)
>
>This isn't one of them.
>
>xrange has been part of Python for 10 years.
>
>If there are any complaints to be made about this situation it's that
>there are any 2.x learning materials anythere that continue to use
>range() and not xrange() in this context.

Jean-Paul


From exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  Mon Aug 17 07:44:35 2009
From: exarkun at twistedmatrix.com (exarkun at twistedmatrix.com)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:44:35 -0000
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
In-Reply-To: <7xtz079ptq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: 
	<02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<4434e799-d907-49ca-93ee-a4be3276f9c2@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<7xtz079ptq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <20090817114435.8740.1376128107.divmod.xquotient.30@localhost.localdomain>

On 01:44 am, http wrote:
>exarkun at twistedmatrix.com writes:
>>Although I think PyPy also recognizes this case and makes it as
>>efficient as using xrange, and does so without breaking any rules.
>
>How can pypy possibly know that the user hasn't assigned some other
>value to "range"?

It doesn't really need to.  The optimization isn't applied when the 
compiler sees the name "range" being called.  It's applied after the 
object the default builtin name "range" is bound to is called.

Jean-Paul


From vlastimil.brom at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 07:58:40 2009
From: vlastimil.brom at gmail.com (Vlastimil Brom)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 13:58:40 +0200
Subject: sub-list extraction, logical indexation
In-Reply-To: <4A893263.2000706@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: 
	<7esoqbF2gnhrcU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<4A893263.2000706@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <9fdb569a0908170458v167d57obf8517704f6e8dc@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/17 MRAB :
> Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
>>
>> Pierre wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Everyone,
>>>
>>> I would like to know if it is possible to extract a sub-list from a
>>> list ?
>>>
>>> typically if :
>>>
>>> L =[[1, 2, 3],[4, 5, 6],[3] ]
>>>
>>> How to extract easily the elements 0 and 2 of L in order to get :
>>>
>>> L2 =[[1, 2, 3],[3] ]
>>>
>>> Moreover, I would like to know if it is possible to use logical
>>> indexation such that :
>>>
>>> index = [ True, False, True]
>>> L2 = L
>>>
>>> or usual indexation, something like
>>> index=[0, 2]
>>> L2 = L
>>>
>>> I tried, but failed...
>>> Thanks for your help
>>
>>
>> index = [ True, False, True]
>> L2 = [v for i, v in enumerate(L) if index[i]]
>>
> Or:
>
> L =[[1, 2, 3],[4, 5, 6],[3] ]
> index = [ True, False, True]
>
> from itertools import izip
> L2 = [v for i, v in izip(index, L) if i]
>
Or in python 3.1

>>> import itertools
>>> list(itertools.compress(data=[[1, 2, 3], [4, 5, 6], [3]], selectors=[True, False, True]))
[[1, 2, 3], [3]]

vbr


From dmhouse at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 08:23:47 2009
From: dmhouse at gmail.com (David House)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 13:23:47 +0100
Subject: ignored test cases in unittest
In-Reply-To: <56527679-4cec-49a1-9b46-c38de8f981c8@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<873a7so66v.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
	<56527679-4cec-49a1-9b46-c38de8f981c8@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

2009/8/16 Terry :
> Thanks for the solutions. I think the decorator idea is what I'm look
> for:-)

Note that the unittest module now supports the `skip' and
`expectedFailure' decorators, which seem to describe some of the
solutions here.

See http://docs.python.org/3.1/library/unittest.html#skipping-tests-and-expected-failures

-- 
-David


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Mon Aug 17 08:33:22 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:33:22 +0200
Subject: callable virtual method
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4A85798B.6020501@sequans.com>	<4A8587A0.6040008@mrabarnett.plus.com>		<02959b54$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <4a894e11$0$22902$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Jean-Michel Pichavant a ?crit :
(snip)

> Sometimes the base is doing cool stuff but incomplete stuff which 
> requires knowledge only hold by the sub class. In my case the interface 
> is a high level interface for a software that can run on multiple 
> hardware platforms. Only the sub class has knowledge on how to operate 
> the hardware, but no matter the hardware it still produces the same effect.
> 
> Let's say I have 50 different hardwares, I'll have 50 sub classes of 
> Interface with the 'start' method to define. It wouldn't be appropriate 
> (OO programming)to write 50 times '_log.debug('Starting %s' % self)' in 
> each child start method when the simple task of logging the call can be 
> nicely handled by the base class.

Which is exactly one of the use cases for the Template Method pattern in 
traditional OO design.

For the record, Python can offer other solutions to this kind of problem 
- like a combination of decorators and metaclasses.

> In the meantime, I must make sure  the user, who is not a python guru in 
> this case, has implemented the start method for his hardware,

whether he has to implement the 'start' or '_start' method doesn't make 
any difference here.



From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Mon Aug 17 08:35:19 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:35:19 +0200
Subject: callable virtual method
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4A85798B.6020501@sequans.com>	<4A8587A0.6040008@mrabarnett.plus.com>		<02959b54$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>		
	
Message-ID: <4a894e85$0$22902$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Jean-Michel Pichavant a ?crit :
> Scott David Daniels wrote:
(snip)
>> But there _is_ one moment when you can check those things, then avoid
>> checking thereafter: object creation.  So you can complicate your
>> __init__ (or __new__) with those checks that make sure you instantiate
>> only fully defined subclasses:

That's something I'd rather do in a custom metaclass. But YMMV, of course...



From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Mon Aug 17 08:37:29 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 05:37:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
References:  
	<02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	 
	
	<4434e799-d907-49ca-93ee-a4be3276f9c2@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<3c0abe16-f05a-4c5f-9773-f813bc424f14@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <60535b0d-dac1-4f4b-a464-eb05a2b3c0a3@h31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On 16 Aug, 19:12, Carl Banks  wrote:

> If you don't care about the dynamic stuff why don't you just use
> Cython? ?Or quit complaining and just use xrange.

I think you are the only one complaining here.





From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Aug 17 09:01:19 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:01:19 +0100
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
In-Reply-To: <20090817114036.8740.394539460.divmod.xquotient.22@localhost.localdomain>
References: 	<02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>			<4434e799-d907-49ca-93ee-a4be3276f9c2@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>	<3c0abe16-f05a-4c5f-9773-f813bc424f14@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<20090817114036.8740.394539460.divmod.xquotient.22@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <4A89549F.6050004@mrabarnett.plus.com>

exarkun at twistedmatrix.com wrote:
> On 02:12 am, pavlovevidence at gmail.com wrote:
>> On Aug 16, 3:35?pm, sturlamolden  wrote:
>>> On 16 Aug, 14:57, Dennis Lee Bieber  wrote:
>>>
>>> > ? ? ? ? Well, the alternative would be to have two keywords for 
>>> looping: one
>>> > for your "simple" incrementing integer loop, and another for a loop 
>>> that
>>> > operates over the elements of some collection type.
>>>
>>> A compiler could easily recognise a statement like
>>>
>>> ? ?for i in range(n):
>>>
>>> as a simple integer loop.
>>
>> It would be a simple to do if you were writing it for a different
>> langauge was a lot less dynamic than Python is.  It'd be quite a
>> complex hack to add it to CPython's compiler while maintaing the
>> current highly dynamic runtime semantics and backwards compatibility,
>> which is a design constraint of Python whether you like it or not.
> 
> In your other message, you said this wasn't a legitimate CPython 
> complaint.  Here, you say that it would be a "complex hack" to implement 
> this in CPython.  "complex hack" has negative connotations in my mind. 
> This seems contradictory to me.
>>
>> And all this complaining about an issue that can be worked around by
>> xrange instead of range.  Sheesh.
> 
> Sure.  The specific issue of range vs xrange is quite a small one. There 
> is a slightly larger one regarding the flexibility (or relative lack 
> thereof) of the CPython runtime, though.
> 
A possible solution would be to make 'range' return an instance of, say,
'RangeList', a subclass of list which would behave like 'list'
externally but create the list of values internally only when needed.


From steven.oldner at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 09:03:52 2009
From: steven.oldner at gmail.com (steven.oldner)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 06:03:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: zip codes
References: <35833d36-2fdc-4ed8-8142-604af3c88afe@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	 <4A8914DD.4000307@acm.org> 
	
Message-ID: <15819238-2a87-47e4-8d5f-1f1714d2dd8c@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 17, 5:21?am, MRAB  wrote:
> Sjoerd Mullender wrote:
> > Martin P. Hellwig wrote:
> >> Shailen wrote:
> >>> Is there any Python module that helps with US and foreign zip-code
> >>> lookups? I'm thinking of something that provides basic mappings of zip
> >>> to cities, city to zips, etc. Since this kind of information is so
> >>> often used for basic user-registration, I'm assuming functionality of
> >>> this sort must be available for Python. Any suggestions will be much
> >>> appreciated.
>
> >> There might be an associated can of worms here, for example in the
> >> Netherlands zip codes are actually copyrighted and require a license if
> >> you want to do something with them, on the other hand you get a nice SQL
> >> formatted db to use it. I don't know how this works in other countries
> >> but I imagine that it is likely to be generally the same.
>
> > Also in The Netherlands, ZIP codes are much more fine-grained than in
> > some other countries: ZIP code plus house number together are sufficient
> > to uniquely identify an address. ?I.e. you don't need the street name.
> > E.g., my work address has ZIP code 1098 XG and house number 123, so
> > together they indicate that I work at Science Park 123, Amsterdam.
>
> > In other words, a simple city <-> ZIP mapping is not sufficient.
>
> The same comment applies to UK postcodes, which are also alphanumeric.
> My home postcode, for example, is shared with only 3 other houses, IIRC.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Google for Zip codes.  There are some free databases of codes, but
they are dated.  USPS and 3 party vendors sell zip code databases and
lists.  The USPS APIs are a joke.  They were going to charge me for
using them.

I ended up using a 2 year old database of ZIP codes for my needs.

Hope this helps!



From luke.leighton at googlemail.com  Mon Aug 17 09:03:57 2009
From: luke.leighton at googlemail.com (lkcl)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 06:03:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: platform-specific overrides of functions and class methods 
	(expanding on imputils demo code)
References: 
Message-ID: <77715735-2668-43e7-95da-c91d175b35c9@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

thought that people might like to know: i found also that imputil, the
standard python module, was lacking the necessary complexity in being
a substitute for the standard __import__ function.

the additions required were very simple:

    # note the addition of level=-1 which is ignored

    def _import_hook(self, fqname, globals=None, locals=None,
fromlist=None,
                           level=-1):

        .....

        # Grrr, some people "import os.path" or do "from os.path
import ..."
        if len(parts) == 2 and hasattr(top_module, parts[1]):
            if fromlist:
                return getattr(top_module, parts[1])
            else:
                return top_module

        # assume that the module has already been imported,
        # walk from top_module to find it.
        mod = top_module

        for k in parts[1:]:
            if not hasattr(mod, k):
                print "no mod", mod, k, parts
                mod = None
                break
            mod = getattr(mod, k)

        if mod:
            return mod

        # If the importer does not exist, then we have to bail. A
missing
        # importer means that something else imported the module, and
we have
        # no knowledge of how to get sub-modules out of the thing.
        raise ImportError, 'No module named ' + fqname

it's the module-walking that's been added: going from the "top"
module, looking for an attribute of the split-parts.  this code makes
the assumption that if top module already exists, and it has a sub-
module, and that has a sub-sub-module, and that has a sub-sub-sub-
module etc. then it is perfectly reasonable to return that pre-
existing, already-imported [sub-]+ module as the return result.

the reason why this had to be added is because comtypes.gen.{some
module} auto-generator relies on it, and calls __import__ *direct*.

if somebody would like to add this to the python bugtracker, as a
contribution, that would be great.  alternatively, you might like to
have a word with the python developers to get them to remove the
censorship on my contributions.

l.


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Aug 17 09:20:31 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 15:20:31 +0200
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
In-Reply-To: <3c0abe16-f05a-4c5f-9773-f813bc424f14@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<4434e799-d907-49ca-93ee-a4be3276f9c2@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<3c0abe16-f05a-4c5f-9773-f813bc424f14@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a895920$0$32674$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>

Carl Banks wrote:
> On Aug 16, 3:35 pm, sturlamolden  wrote:
>> On 16 Aug, 14:57, Dennis Lee Bieber  wrote:
>>
>>>         Well, the alternative would be to have two keywords for looping: one
>>> for your "simple" incrementing integer loop, and another for a loop that
>>> operates over the elements of some collection type.
>> A compiler could easily recognise a statement like
>>
>>    for i in range(n):
>>
>> as a simple integer loop.
>> 
>> In fact, Cython is able to do this.
> 
> Cython can do this easily because it is a different language that is a
> lot less dynamic than Python.

Actually, Cython is able to do this because it knows the global scope of a
module. The only thing that this optimisation makes impossible when you
compile your module using Cython is to inject builtins into the module
namespace *after* the compilation, either by assigning module attributes or
by importing the module into a custom namespace.

Given that both use cases are extremely rare, it was decided that
optimisations like this are more important than the ability to redefine the
most common builtins (such as 'range' or 'enumerate'). So, in a way, Cython
really makes them "builtins".

Stefan


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Mon Aug 17 09:23:14 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 17 Aug 2009 13:23:14 GMT
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
References: 
	<02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<4434e799-d907-49ca-93ee-a4be3276f9c2@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0012dd1f$0$2904$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 15:35:26 -0700, sturlamolden wrote:

> On 16 Aug, 14:57, Dennis Lee Bieber  wrote:
> 
>> ? ? ? ? Well, the alternative would be to have two keywords for
>> ? ? ? ? looping: one
>> for your "simple" incrementing integer loop, and another for a loop
>> that operates over the elements of some collection type.
> 
> A compiler could easily recognise a statement like
> 
>    for i in range(n):
> 
> as a simple integer loop. 

"Easily" huh? Would you like to put a small wager on that?

Here is an unedited copy-and-paste of the last few lines of an 
interactive Python session:

>>> for i in range(5):
...     print i
...
0
1
2
Surprise!
4
>>> __builtins__.range is range
True


Can you determine how I did this? How would the compiler avoid this? If 
you can find a method for the compiler to avoid surprises like this, why 
do you think it would be valuable to add all that extra complexity to the 
language? (As opposed to an external tool like Cython.)



-- 
Steven


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Aug 17 09:24:17 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 15:24:17 +0200
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<4434e799-d907-49ca-93ee-a4be3276f9c2@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4a895a01$0$32674$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>

John Machin wrote:
> On Aug 17, 8:35 am, sturlamolden  wrote:
> 
>> A compiler could easily recognise a statement like
>>    for i in range(n):
>> as a simple integer loop. In fact, Cython is able to do this.
> 
> Extremely easy, once users relinquish the right to replace built-in
> "range" with their own concoctions ...

Cython allows you to do that. You just have to do it inside the module. If
Cython determines that "range" refers the global builtin name, it will
enable the loop optimisation. If you assign anything to that global name
inside your module (even the range function itself), this will disable the
optimisation.

Stefan


From terry.yinzhe at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 09:38:48 2009
From: terry.yinzhe at gmail.com (Terry Yin)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 21:38:48 +0800
Subject: ignored test cases in unittest
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<873a7so66v.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
	<56527679-4cec-49a1-9b46-c38de8f981c8@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 17, 8:23 pm, David House  wrote: > > Note that the
unittest module now supports the `skip' and > `expectedFailure' decorators,
which seem to describe some of the > solutions here. > > Seehttp://
docs.python.org/3.1/library/unittest.html#skipping-tests-and-e... > > -- >
-David Yes, indeed! I'm using 2.6 now. It seemed I need to copy untitest.py
from 3.1. But the docs.python.org is hell slow from where I am (China), not
even working except the title:-( br, Terry

On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 8:23 PM, David House  wrote:

> 2009/8/16 Terry :
> > Thanks for the solutions. I think the decorator idea is what I'm look
> > for:-)
>
> Note that the unittest module now supports the `skip' and
> `expectedFailure' decorators, which seem to describe some of the
> solutions here.
>
> See
> http://docs.python.org/3.1/library/unittest.html#skipping-tests-and-expected-failures
>
> --
> -David
>



-- 
-------------------------
Blog: http://terry-yinzhe.spaces.live.com/
twitter: http://twitter.com/terryyin
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From drobinow at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 10:04:14 2009
From: drobinow at gmail.com (David Robinow)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 10:04:14 -0400
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
In-Reply-To: 
References: <24980842.post@talk.nabble.com> <4A8612CE.7080700@stoneleaf.us>
	<200908160830.55031.emmanuel.surleau@gmail.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <4eb0089f0908170704y664a3031ufed176ada36cc2c@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 11:10 PM, Nobody wrote:
> Java also has iterators; it's more a case of people coming from C and BASIC.
>
> Although, some of those may have come *through* Java without abandoning
> old habits. You see the same thing with people coming from BASIC to C and
> writing:
>
> ? ? ? ?#define NUM_DATES 50
> ? ? ? ?int day[NUM_DATES], month[NUM_DATES], year[NUM_DATES];
>
> rather than defining a "struct".
>
> Sometimes referred to as "I know ten languages and can write in BASIC in
> all of them".

Ha, ha. I learned that pattern in Fortran. I confess to having written
code like that in C. I think I've gotten over it.


From invalid at invalid  Mon Aug 17 10:04:42 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 09:04:42 -0500
Subject: zip codes
References: <35833d36-2fdc-4ed8-8142-604af3c88afe@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-17, Sjoerd Mullender  wrote:

> Also in The Netherlands, ZIP codes are much more fine-grained than in
> some other countries: ZIP code plus house number together are sufficient
> to uniquely identify an address.  I.e. you don't need the street name.
> E.g., my work address has ZIP code 1098 XG and house number 123, so
> together they indicate that I work at Science Park 123, Amsterdam.
>
> In other words, a simple city <-> ZIP mapping is not sufficient.

Same here in the US.  A 5-digit zip code narrows it down to a
neghborhood within a city, and a full 9-digit zip code is
shared with perhaps 5-10 houses -- generally I believe it
identifies one side of a one-block section of a street in a
single-family-home residential area.  In apartment or office
buildings a 9-digit zip code generally identifies a specific
floor in a specific building.  Most companies of any size have
their own zip code (or codes).  My company only has ~40
employees, and we have our own unique zip code.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Here I am at the flea
                                  at               market but nobody is buying
                               visi.com            my urine sample bottles ...


From aaron.watters at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 10:05:21 2009
From: aaron.watters at gmail.com (Aaron Watters)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 07:05:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: off topic: google groups sucks?
Message-ID: <087f64b6-0cc7-4a75-a2ba-9ca74d31f1fd@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

Just a note.  It seems that google groups is increasing the
sucks coefficient.

I search for things using "group search" for comp.lang.python
and I get no results even though I know there are results from
a few months or weeks ago.

What is the best alternative for this kind of trawling?  gmane?

With all the smart people working at google how can they
**** up like this?

Inquiring minds want to know.

   -- Aaron Watters

===
Sisyphus got ripped.


From jkn_gg at nicorp.f9.co.uk  Mon Aug 17 10:46:14 2009
From: jkn_gg at nicorp.f9.co.uk (jkn)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 07:46:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: off topic: google groups sucks?
References: <087f64b6-0cc7-4a75-a2ba-9ca74d31f1fd@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 17, 3:05?pm, Aaron Watters  wrote:
> Just a note. ?It seems that google groups is increasing the
> sucks coefficient.
>
> I search for things using "group search" for comp.lang.python
> and I get no results even though I know there are results from
> a few months or weeks ago.

There seems to be a problem with Google Searching 'at the moment'. I
have seen it with other groups, but not noticed it to date on c.l.p.

    http://groups.google.com/group/groupsknownissues/browse_thread/thread/d88d02f269a7d20d#

    J^n


From chris at simplistix.co.uk  Mon Aug 17 10:53:08 2009
From: chris at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 15:53:08 +0100
Subject: httplib incredibly slow :-(
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4A81D3CB.7080209@simplistix.co.uk>	
	
	
Message-ID: <4A896ED4.8000509@simplistix.co.uk>

i3dmaster wrote:
> Just wanted to check if you can try turning on the debug mode for
> httplib and see if you can read a bit more debug info on where the
> calls get hung. In your example, it would be conn.set_debuglevel(1)

I had a look through the code this debug level controls and I don't see 
any information that this provides which would help here...

Chris

-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting
            - http://www.simplistix.co.uk


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Aug 17 11:11:10 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:11:10 +0200
Subject: off topic: google groups sucks?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <087f64b6-0cc7-4a75-a2ba-9ca74d31f1fd@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4a89730e$0$32667$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>

jkn wrote:
> On Aug 17, 3:05 pm, Aaron Watters  wrote:
>> Just a note.  It seems that google groups is increasing the
>> sucks coefficient.
>>
>> I search for things using "group search" for comp.lang.python
>> and I get no results even though I know there are results from
>> a few months or weeks ago.
> 
> There seems to be a problem with Google Searching 'at the moment'. I
> have seen it with other groups, but not noticed it to date on c.l.p.
> 
>     http://groups.google.com/group/groupsknownissues/browse_thread/thread/d88d02f269a7d20d#

I noticed a problem with Google in general this weekend, not even related
to mailing lists. I can't remember getting similarly bad results from a web
search for years. Even trivial queries that worked for months returned
completely unrelated pages and lacked the "obvious" target page in the
result set.

Stefan


From jjposner at optimum.net  Mon Aug 17 11:31:30 2009
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:31:30 -0400
Subject: XML parsing with python
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A8977D2.1020801@optimum.net>


> Use the iterparse() function of the xml.etree.ElementTree package.
>
> http://effbot.org/zone/element-iterparse.htm
> http://codespeak.net/lxml/parsing.html#iterparse-and-iterwalk
>
> Stefan
>   

iterparse() is too big a hammer for this purpose, IMO. How about this:

  from xml.etree.ElementTree import ElementTree
  tree = ElementTree(None, "myfile.xml")
  for elem in tree.findall('//book/title'):
      print elem.text


-John



From wiggly at wiggly.org  Mon Aug 17 11:42:40 2009
From: wiggly at wiggly.org (Nigel Rantor)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 16:42:40 +0100
Subject: zip codes
In-Reply-To: <4A892F2B.4020507@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <35833d36-2fdc-4ed8-8142-604af3c88afe@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>		<4A8914DD.4000307@acm.org>
	<4A892F2B.4020507@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <4A897A70.3050100@wiggly.org>

MRAB wrote:
> Sjoerd Mullender wrote:
>> Martin P. Hellwig wrote:
>>> Shailen wrote:
>>>> Is there any Python module that helps with US and foreign zip-code
>>>> lookups? I'm thinking of something that provides basic mappings of zip
>>>> to cities, city to zips, etc. Since this kind of information is so
>>>> often used for basic user-registration, I'm assuming functionality of
>>>> this sort must be available for Python. Any suggestions will be much
>>>> appreciated.
>>>>
>>> There might be an associated can of worms here, for example in the
>>> Netherlands zip codes are actually copyrighted and require a license if
>>> you want to do something with them, on the other hand you get a nice SQL
>>> formatted db to use it. I don't know how this works in other countries
>>> but I imagine that it is likely to be generally the same.
>>>
>>
>> Also in The Netherlands, ZIP codes are much more fine-grained than in
>> some other countries: ZIP code plus house number together are sufficient
>> to uniquely identify an address.  I.e. you don't need the street name.
>> E.g., my work address has ZIP code 1098 XG and house number 123, so
>> together they indicate that I work at Science Park 123, Amsterdam.
>>
>> In other words, a simple city <-> ZIP mapping is not sufficient.
>>
> The same comment applies to UK postcodes, which are also alphanumeric.
> My home postcode, for example, is shared with only 3 other houses, IIRC.

Kind of off-topic...but nevertheless...

Yes, the UK postcode database (PAF) can be bought from the Royal Mail 
for a fee.

The data cannot be copyright, but the version they maintain and 
distribute is.

As an aside, the PAF has finer grained information than simply the 
postal code, every letterbox in the UK has (or is meant to) a DPS 
(delivery point suffix), so that given a post code and DPS you can 
uniquely identify individual letterbox even when, for example, a house 
has been split into multiple flats.

So, nastily, you *can* identify individual letterboxes, but the Royal 
Mail does not publicise the fact, so you cannot actually look at a post 
code on a letter and determine the letterbox it is intended for.

Shame really.

   n


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Aug 17 11:44:27 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 17 Aug 2009 08:44:27 -0700
Subject: Diversity in Python (was Re: Need cleanup advice for multiline string)
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

In article <461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd at o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
Robert Dailey   wrote:
>
>It's a figure of speech. And besides, why would I want programming
>advice from a woman? lol. Thanks for the help.

Well, I'm sorry to see this, it means I was wrong about the lack of
sexism in the Python community.  I encourage anyone who wants to improve
the situation to join the new diversity list:

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I saw `cout' being shifted "Hello world" times to the left and stopped
right there."  --Steve Gonedes


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Mon Aug 17 12:24:26 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 09:24:26 -0700
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
In-Reply-To: <200908160830.55031.emmanuel.surleau@gmail.com>
References: <24980842.post@talk.nabble.com> <4A8612CE.7080700@stoneleaf.us>
	<200908160830.55031.emmanuel.surleau@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A89843A.6090308@stoneleaf.us>

Emmanuel Surleau wrote:
>>Dr. Phillip M. Feldman wrote:
> 
> 
> [snip]
> 
> 
>>>def is_prime(n):
>>>   for j in range(2,n):
>>>      if (n % j) == 0: return False
>>>   return True
>>>
>>>It seems as though Python is actually expanding range(2,n) into a list of
>>>numbers, even though this is incredibly wasteful of memory. There should
>>>be a looping mechanism that generates the index variable values
>>>incrementally as they are needed.
>>
[snip]
 >>
>>I will also observe that if you were to stop programming whatever
>>language you are more familiar with in Python, and start programming
>>Python in Python, you'll have an easier time of it.
> 
> 
> I don't see what's particularly un-Pythonic with this code. Not using xrange() 
> is a mistake, certainly, but it remains clear, easily understandable code 
> which correctly demonstrates the naive algorithm for detecting whether n is a 
> prime. It doesn't call for condescension
> 
[snip]
 >
> Cheers,
> 
> Emm

My comment about programming Python in Python was geared more towards 
the subject line than the actual code, and the biases evident in his 
comments in both this thread and earlier ones.

~Ethan~


From invalid at invalid  Mon Aug 17 12:32:08 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:32:08 -0500
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-11, Bearophile  wrote:
> Robert Dailey:
>
>> This breaks the flow of scope. Would you guys solve this
>> problem by moving failMsg into global scope? Perhaps through
>> some other type of syntax?
>
> There are gals too here.

Straying a bit OT, but I find this particular issue rather
fascinating.

At least in the US, "guys" is now pretty much gender-neutral
according to my casual research (mostly just paying attention
to informal speach).

Oddly, it still seems to be masculine when singular. Though one
commonly hears a group of females addressed as "you guys" or
refered to as "those guys", one never hears a single female
referred to as "a guy" or "that guy".

It is a bit tricky, however, since a phrase like "a group of
guys" still seems to refer to just males since the word "guys"
in that case is being applied individually to a plurality of
persons rather being applied collectivelly to a single group --
if that makes any sense.

I've actually discussed this with a a number of female friends,
and they almost all thought the term "gals" was condescending
and actually preferred to be referred to collectively as
"guys".

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! You can't hurt me!!
                                  at               I have an ASSUMABLE
                               visi.com            MORTGAGE!!


From aaron.watters at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 12:41:14 2009
From: aaron.watters at gmail.com (Aaron Watters)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 09:41:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: off topic: google groups sucks?
References: <087f64b6-0cc7-4a75-a2ba-9ca74d31f1fd@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <082ae712-a55f-4bd6-aa07-71f6d4c2253b@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 17, 10:05?am, Aaron Watters  wrote:
> Just a note. ?It seems that google groups is increasing the
> sucks coefficient.

I'm having better luck now using the advanced search option
with queries like

   gadfly group:comp.lang.python

which become

   http://groups.google.com/groups/search?q=gadfly+group:comp.lang.python

The "search this group" feature still needs fixing, however.

  -- Aaron Watters

===
if you lined up all economists end to end
they'd still point in different directions.
   -- stolen from somewhere


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Mon Aug 17 13:03:56 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:03:56 +0200
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4A898D7C.2080709@sequans.com>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2009-08-11, Bearophile  wrote:
>   
>> Robert Dailey:
>>
>>     
>>> This breaks the flow of scope. Would you guys solve this
>>> problem by moving failMsg into global scope? Perhaps through
>>> some other type of syntax?
>>>       
>> There are gals too here.
>>     
>
> Straying a bit OT, but I find this particular issue rather
> fascinating.
>
> At least in the US, "guys" is now pretty much gender-neutral
> according to my casual research (mostly just paying attention
> to informal speach).
>
> Oddly, it still seems to be masculine when singular. Though one
> commonly hears a group of females addressed as "you guys" or
> refered to as "those guys", one never hears a single female
> referred to as "a guy" or "that guy".
>
> It is a bit tricky, however, since a phrase like "a group of
> guys" still seems to refer to just males since the word "guys"
> in that case is being applied individually to a plurality of
> persons rather being applied collectivelly to a single group --
> if that makes any sense.
>
> I've actually discussed this with a a number of female friends,
> and they almost all thought the term "gals" was condescending
> and actually preferred to be referred to collectively as
> "guys".
>
>   
I'm no English native, but I already heard women/men referring to a 
group as "guys", no matter that group gender configuration. It's even 
used for group composed exclusively of women. Moreover it looks like a 
*very* friendly form, so there is really nothing to worry about it.

Forms like:
"Hi guys", "You guys should do something...", "Come on guys..." are very 
friendly and gender-neutral.

JM


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Mon Aug 17 13:14:42 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:14:42 +0200
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Simon Brunning  (SB) wrote:

>SB> 2009/8/11 Robert Dailey :
>>> On Aug 11, 3:40?pm, Bearophile  wrote:
>>>> There are gals too here.
>>> 
>>> It's a figure of speech. And besides, why would I want programming
>>> advice from a woman? lol. Thanks for the help.

>SB> Give the attitudes still prevalent in our industry (cf
>SB>  and many more), I'm sorry to say that I
>SB> don't think this is funny.

seconded
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Mon Aug 17 13:23:39 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:23:39 +0200
Subject: Diversity in Python (was Re: Need cleanup advice for multiline
	string)
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4A89921B.4000603@sequans.com>

Aahz wrote:
> In article <461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd at o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
> Robert Dailey   wrote:
>   
>> It's a figure of speech. And besides, why would I want programming
>> advice from a woman? lol. Thanks for the help.
>>     
>
> Well, I'm sorry to see this, it means I was wrong about the lack of
> sexism in the Python community.  I encourage anyone who wants to improve
> the situation to join the new diversity list:
>
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity
>   
Are you suggesting this list reject part of the community regarding its 
sexual orientation, ethnicity, size, culture? If that was the case I'd 
like to know about it.
I would really want to know how you'd guess my gender (could be some 
clue somewhere), my sexual orientation, my religion and so on.
How can you reject someone regarding informations you don't have ?

That's the beauty of this mailing list, it has diversity, by design.
We even welcome people that mixes up joke with sexist aggression, not to 
mention how open minded we are :o)

Beside, the day you'll meet a real act of sexism in this list, please 
know that people talk and act on their own, do not assign their attitude 
to the whole community.
You'll know that Python is sexist the day you'll find the title 'No 
women allowed' on the python main document page.

JM

PS : Newbies are not welcome here !




From timothywayne.cook at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 13:30:44 2009
From: timothywayne.cook at gmail.com (Tim Cook)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 10:30:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: flatten a list of list
References: <9c972b02-3c30-4fad-95bd-cf6165913d6b@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 16, 6:47?am, Terry  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Is there a simple way (the pythonic way) to flatten a list of list?
> rather than my current solution:
>
> new_list=[]
> for l in list_of_list:
> ? ? new_list.extend(l)
>
> or,
>
> new_list=reduce(lambda x,y:x.extend(y), list_of_list)
>
> br, Terry

Well, This is not simple but it is comprhensive in that it has to do
several things.  I am using it to decompose deeply nested lists from
Pyparsing output that may have strings in a variety of languages.
Performance wise I do not know how it stacks up against the other
examples but it works for me.  :-)

def flatten(x):
    """flatten(sequence) -> list

    Returns a single, flat list which contains all elements retrieved
    from the sequence and all recursively contained sub-sequences
    (iterables). All strings are converted to unicode.

    """
    result = []
    for el in x:
        #if isinstance(el, (list, tuple)):
        if hasattr(el, "__iter__") and not isinstance(el, basestring):
            result.extend(flatten(el))
        else:
            result.append(el)


    # all strings must be unicode
    rtnlist=[]
    for x in result:
        if isinstance(x,str):
            # replace any brackets so Python doesn't think it's a list
and we still have a seperator.
            x=x.replace('[','_')
            x=x.replace(']','_')
            try:
                x=unicode(x, "utf8")  # need more decode types here
            except UnicodeDecodeError:
                x=unicode(x, "latin1")
            except UnicodeDecodeError:
                x=unicode(x,"iso-8859-1")
            except UnicodeDecodeError:
                x=unicode(x,"eucJP")

        rtnlist.append(x)

    return rtnlist


From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 13:33:52 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 10:33:52 -0700
Subject: Diversity in Python (was Re: Need cleanup advice for multiline
	string)
In-Reply-To: <4A89921B.4000603@sequans.com>
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	 <4A89921B.4000603@sequans.com>
Message-ID: 

> You'll know that Python is sexist the day you'll find the title 'No  
> women allowed' on the python main document page.

Good God I hope you're being ironic.

On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 10:23:39 -0700, Jean-Michel Pichavant  
 wrote:

> Aahz wrote:
>> In article  
>> <461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd at o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
>> Robert Dailey   wrote:
>>
>>> It's a figure of speech. And besides, why would I want programming
>>> advice from a woman? lol. Thanks for the help.
>>>
>>
>> Well, I'm sorry to see this, it means I was wrong about the lack of
>> sexism in the Python community.  I encourage anyone who wants to improve
>> the situation to join the new diversity list:
>>
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity
>>
> Are you suggesting this list reject part of the community regarding its  
> sexual orientation, ethnicity, size, culture? If that was the case I'd  
> like to know about it.
> I would really want to know how you'd guess my gender (could be some  
> clue somewhere), my sexual orientation, my religion and so on.
> How can you reject someone regarding informations you don't have ?
>
> That's the beauty of this mailing list, it has diversity, by design.
> We even welcome people that mixes up joke with sexist aggression, not to  
> mention how open minded we are :o)
>
> Beside, the day you'll meet a real act of sexism in this list, please  
> know that people talk and act on their own, do not assign their attitude  
> to the whole community.
> You'll know that Python is sexist the day you'll find the title 'No  
> women allowed' on the python main document page.
>
> JM
>
> PS : Newbies are not welcome here !
>
>



-- 
Rami Chowdhury
"Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --  
Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)


From seldan24 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 13:43:33 2009
From: seldan24 at gmail.com (seldan24)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 10:43:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Using a Callback Function - ftplib
Message-ID: <76875cdd-30c4-4a3b-8a16-d0e2061765d7@v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I'm utterly confused by something which is most likely trivial.  I'm
attempting to connect to an FTP server, retrieve a list of files, and
store than in an array.  I.e.:

import ftplib

ftp = ftplib.FTP(server)
ftp.login(user, pass)
ftp.cwd(conf['testdir'])
ftp.retrlines('NLST ' + "testfile*.txt")
ftp.quit()

The above example works fine... and would return a list of any files
that match "testfile*.txt" to standard out.  The issue is I don't want
that to go to stdout, I'd rather capture them within an array so I can
retrieve them later.

If I try something like:

my_files = ftp.retrlines('NLST ' + "testfile*.txt")

Then, my_files, will just print out the return code of the FTP NLST
command.  I'm trying to get the file names themselves.  Now, I've read
through the ftplib module section of the Python documentation and it
says that, by default, the output goes to sys.stdout unless a callback
function is used.  Here is where I get utterly lost.  I can certainly
see the files being outputted to sys.stdout, but don't know how to
capture that output... i.e.

testfile1.txt
testfile2.txt
testfile3.txt

Will show to the screen, but I can't catch it!  I'm sure this is
trivial... any help would be greatly appreciated.


From gallium.arsenide at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 13:44:49 2009
From: gallium.arsenide at gmail.com (John Yeung)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 10:44:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: off topic: google groups sucks?
References: <087f64b6-0cc7-4a75-a2ba-9ca74d31f1fd@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<082ae712-a55f-4bd6-aa07-71f6d4c2253b@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <784a24a3-066e-45b9-81e7-bed187e9f012@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 17, 12:41?pm, Aaron Watters  wrote:
> I'm having better luck now using the advanced search option
> with queries like
>
> ? ?gadfly group:comp.lang.python
>
> The "search this group" feature still needs fixing, however.

Thanks, Aaron, for confirming that it's not just me!  I've been
noticing spotty or missing results searching groups for a while now,
actually, to the point that I gave up trying.  Can't remember exactly
when it started, but I do remember that it used to work pretty well
and then suddenly got significantly worse.

Also, thanks for the tip of trying advanced searches.

John


From 71david at libero.it  Mon Aug 17 13:51:33 2009
From: 71david at libero.it (David)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:51:33 +0200
Subject: Using a Callback Function - ftplib
References: <76875cdd-30c4-4a3b-8a16-d0e2061765d7@v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1euafoc8zeh0q.91hedjv5ueuh$.dlg@40tude.net>

Il Mon, 17 Aug 2009 10:43:33 -0700 (PDT), seldan24 ha scritto:

> Hello,
> 
> I'm utterly confused by something which is most likely trivial.  I'm
> attempting to connect to an FTP server, retrieve a list of files, and
> store than in an array.  I.e.:
> 
> import ftplib
> 
> ftp = ftplib.FTP(server)
> ftp.login(user, pass)
> ftp.cwd(conf['testdir'])

Why bother with retrlines? Use the provided higer level fuctions:

remotefiles = []
ftp.dir(remotefiles.append)

or, if you prefer nlst

remotefiles = ftp.nlst()

regards
david


From seldan24 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 14:10:25 2009
From: seldan24 at gmail.com (seldan24)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:10:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Using a Callback Function - ftplib
References: <76875cdd-30c4-4a3b-8a16-d0e2061765d7@v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<1euafoc8zeh0q.91hedjv5ueuh$.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 17, 1:51?pm, David <71da... at libero.it> wrote:
> Il Mon, 17 Aug 2009 10:43:33 -0700 (PDT), seldan24 ha scritto:
>
> > Hello,
>
> > I'm utterly confused by something which is most likely trivial. ?I'm
> > attempting to connect to an FTP server, retrieve a list of files, and
> > store than in an array. ?I.e.:
>
> > import ftplib
>
> > ftp = ftplib.FTP(server)
> > ftp.login(user, pass)
> > ftp.cwd(conf['testdir'])
>
> Why bother with retrlines? Use the provided higer level fuctions:
>
> remotefiles = []
> ftp.dir(remotefiles.append)
>
> or, if you prefer nlst
>
> remotefiles = ftp.nlst()
>
> regards
> david

I didn't even notice the higher level methods.  I changed the
retrieval line to:

ftp.nlst("testfile*.txt")

This works great.  The result is even captured in an array.  I really
have no idea what the difference between a LIST and NLST is within
FTP.  Never delved that deep into it.  I did notice that an NLST will
return a specific FTP code if a file doesn't exist, whereas a LIST
doesn't.  So, I ended up using NLST as that'll generate an
ftplib.error_perm exception.  Based on if the job cares if a file is
not available or not (some do, some don't), I'll either exit, or
continue on with the file loop.

Anyway, thanks again, works perfectly, next time I'll try to scroll
down and read a bit more prior to posting!


From nad at acm.org  Mon Aug 17 14:25:30 2009
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:25:30 -0700
Subject: Uninstalling mac python2.5 to install python2.6
References: <83423F73-83DA-436B-A3BA-E83CD61CD28D@cs.stir.ac.uk>
Message-ID: 

In article <83423F73-83DA-436B-A3BA-E83CD61CD28D at cs.stir.ac.uk>,
 Farhan Sheikh  wrote:
> i originally had python2.5 on my mac at the univeristy and had to get  
> 2.6 to get NEST and pyNN to work together. however now as those are  
> now installed, i had to install numpy.
> 
> As i installed numpy, it only installed its directories into the  
> python2.5 folders and as i am new to to mac terminals i don't know how  
> to change its directories to be installed into python2.6. my question  
> is, do i have to uninstall python 2.5 so that only python2.6 is on the  
> machine or is there a way to change the path so it saves into python2.5?

There appears to be a NumPy installer image for Python 2.6 and OX 10.5 
here:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/numpy/files/

Multiple versions of python can co-exist on OS X.  You definitely should 
not remove the Apple-supplied python2.5 (linked to from /usr/bin/python) 
in 10.5.

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org



From fidellira.6 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 14:26:05 2009
From: fidellira.6 at gmail.com (axl456)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:26:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: GUI interface builder for python
References: 
Message-ID: <21bca3cf-b2c7-47d7-9142-26c9fd015f92@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 17, 1:59?am, "L at D@n"  wrote:
> Which is the best GUI interface builder with drag and drop
> capabilities.
> I am using Ubuntu GNU/Linux.
> Please help me.
> Thank you.

boa is really nice..


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 14:32:29 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:32:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
References:  
	<02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	 
	
	<4434e799-d907-49ca-93ee-a4be3276f9c2@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<3c0abe16-f05a-4c5f-9773-f813bc424f14@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 17, 4:40?am, exar... at twistedmatrix.com wrote:
> On 02:12 am, pavlovevide... at gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> >On Aug 16, 3:35?pm, sturlamolden  wrote:
> >>On 16 Aug, 14:57, Dennis Lee Bieber  wrote:
>
> >> > ? ? ? ? Well, the alternative would be to have two keywords for
> >>looping: one
> >> > for your "simple" incrementing integer loop, and another for a loop
> >>that
> >> > operates over the elements of some collection type.
>
> >>A compiler could easily recognise a statement like
>
> >>? ?for i in range(n):
>
> >>as a simple integer loop.
>
> >It would be a simple to do if you were writing it for a different
> >langauge was a lot less dynamic than Python is. ?It'd be quite a
> >complex hack to add it to CPython's compiler while maintaing the
> >current highly dynamic runtime semantics and backwards compatibility,
> >which is a design constraint of Python whether you like it or not.
>
> In your other message, you said this wasn't a legitimate CPython
> complaint. ?Here, you say that it would be a "complex hack" to implement
> this in CPython. ?"complex hack" has negative connotations in my mind.
> This seems contradictory to me.

Well, you missed the point, chief.

It's not a legitimate complaint because you can use xrange, you don't
need compiler magic to recognize and optimize range.


Carl Banks


From zorigaman at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 14:46:21 2009
From: zorigaman at gmail.com (Zorigaman)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:46:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Embedding a python console inside a python application
Message-ID: 

Hi,

I am starting an application in which I would like to have some
scripting functionality. It will obviously be done in Python. The
thing is that I would like my scripts to have access to the rest of
the application as an object it could manipulate.
I made some research and I found the code module, which allows to have
a Python interpreter inside an application, but I am not sure if I can
access to the "parent" which created this interpreter. A solution
could be to launch my application through an interpreter, but the
problem there is how to integrate it back into the GUI, redirecting
streams ?
Another option is the cmd module, but here, same problem, I am not
sure if can have access to my application's objects.
I am using PyQt with Python 2.6.1, I could switch to Python 3.0 if
necessary.
I am familiar with programming, but that's my first script-enabled
application, tell me if I am missing something obvious.

http://docs.python.org/library/code.html
http://docs.python.org/library/cmd.html


From jurgenex at hotmail.com  Mon Aug 17 14:48:43 2009
From: jurgenex at hotmail.com (Jürgen Exner)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:48:43 -0700
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<269572f2-5968-479b-a7e6-d3354a769250@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<60bd3cab-1cab-4677-b640-8d126343615a@d9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

Jon Harrop  wrote:
>Xah Lee wrote:
[...]

Please do not feed this well-known troll.

He is known to spew some remotely on-topic junk into a bunch of
unrelated NGs and to enjoy the ensuing confusion.

jue


From no.email at please.post  Mon Aug 17 15:05:26 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:05:26 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: XPath support?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

In  Kev Dwyer  writes:

>On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 20:29:15 +0000, kj wrote:

>> I'm looking for a XML parser that produces an object with full XPath
>> support.  What I've been using up to now, xml.etree.ElementTree, fails
>> to support Xpath predicates, as in "spam[@eggs='3']/ham".
>> 
>> What I'm trying to do is to read-in a large XML string, and parse it
>> into an object from which I can extract nodes matching selectors that
>> include such predicates.
>> 
>> Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
>> 
>> TIA!
>> 
>> kynn


>Have you tried lxml (http://codespeak.net/lxml/)?

Thanks!  (To Diez too!)

kynn



From no.email at please.post  Mon Aug 17 15:10:22 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:10:22 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Data visualization in Python
Message-ID: 




I'm looking for a good Python package for visualizing
scientific/statistical data.  (FWIW, the OS I'm interested in is
Mac OS X).

The users of this package will be experimental biologists with
little programming experience (but currently learning Python).

(I normally visualize data using R or Mathematica, but I don't want
to saddle these novices with the task of learning yet another
language.)

TIA!

kynn


From bruce at cenderis.demon.co.uk  Mon Aug 17 15:13:29 2009
From: bruce at cenderis.demon.co.uk (Bruce Stephens)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 20:13:29 +0100
Subject: python doc available in emacs info format?
References: 
	<4a893f9a$0$307$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
Message-ID: <87d46u9rty.fsf@cenderis.demon.co.uk>

"Colin S. Miller"  writes:

[...]

> Ubuntu maintains a package search site, it is on
> http://packages.ubuntu.com/
>
> However, there seems to be no files named
> python.*info   (regexp)

And yet there are info files in python2.5-doc:
.

[...]



From paul at boddie.org.uk  Mon Aug 17 15:22:16 2009
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 12:22:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Diversity in Python (was Re: Need cleanup advice for multiline 
	string)
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> 
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	
	
Message-ID: <704d9cc8-fa9a-4e7e-8d7a-bb130935d10a@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On 17 Aug, 19:23, Jean-Michel Pichavant 
wrote:
>
> Are you suggesting this list reject part of the community regarding its
> sexual orientation, ethnicity, size, culture? If that was the case I'd
> like to know about it.

Careful: you probably meant to write "rejects", not "reject". That
changes the meaning of what you've written somewhat.

> I would really want to know how you'd guess my gender (could be some
> clue somewhere), my sexual orientation, my religion and so on.
> How can you reject someone regarding informations you don't have ?

Well, everyone can of course hide their actual identity on the
Internet, but when someone references a group of people with a
juvenile remark (if we are being charitable about the matter), it has
nothing to do with guessing the characteristics of individuals. The
whole excuse that anonymity defends against insults and harassment is
a bit like saying that slinging mud at everyone is acceptable as long
as everyone is encouraged to do it and nobody is wearing their nicest
clothes. And unless your idea of a Python-related conference is
something close to a fancy-dress event with everyone "in character" -
which would obviously limit the effectiveness of such an event - you
presumably understand that there is a genuine need for continuity
between interactions on and off the Internet. This somewhat undermines
your argument.

> That's the beauty of this mailing list, it has diversity, by design.

An explanation is needed here for this not to sound like
conversational padding.

> We even welcome people that mixes up joke with sexist aggression, not to
> mention how open minded we are :o)

Well, jokes actually need an amusing side, regardless of how
"edgy" ("juvenile" is typically the more accurate term) the joke-
teller is trying to be, and that was completely absent from the remark
in question. There's little room for error in communication over a
medium like this one, as I pointed out with your opening sentence. And
much as it probably upsets the "unfettered free speech" advocates, we
should be able to assert that "sexist aggression" is not acceptable
behaviour amongst those who seek to participate in our community.

Paul


From invalid at invalid  Mon Aug 17 15:29:36 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:29:36 -0500
Subject: Data visualization in Python
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-17, kj  wrote:

> I'm looking for a good Python package for visualizing
> scientific/statistical data.  (FWIW, the OS I'm interested in
> is Mac OS X).

Both matplotlib and gnuplot-py can produce pretty good results
with a minimum of effort:

  http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/
  http://gnuplot-py.sourceforge.net/  

I lean more towards gnuplot, but that's probably just a bias
from having used Gnuplot for 10+ years before learning Python.
Both matplotlib and gnuplot are basically 2D packages with some
3D features.
  
There's also a Python binding for VTK.  I found it a bit harder
to use for the stuff I did, but sophisticated 3D stuff it's
probably the winner:

  http://www.vtk.org/

[It also has the only Delaunay triangulation module (of the 3
that I tried) that worked reliably, but you probably don't care
about that.]
  
-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Let me do my TRIBUTE
                                  at               to FISHNET STOCKINGS ...
                               visi.com            


From invalid at invalid  Mon Aug 17 15:36:18 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:36:18 -0500
Subject: Data visualization in Python
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-17, Grant Edwards  wrote:
> On 2009-08-17, kj  wrote:
>
>> I'm looking for a good Python package for visualizing
>> scientific/statistical data.  (FWIW, the OS I'm interested in
>> is Mac OS X).
>
> Both matplotlib and gnuplot-py can produce pretty good results
> with a minimum of effort:

Oh, just in case you haven't found them, you might also be
interested in the SciPy and Scientific Python projects:

   http://www.scipy.org/

   http://sourcesup.cru.fr/projects/scientific-py/

Though they have deceptively similar names, they're two
separate projects.  Unfortunately, some rather promenent
documentation conflates the two.  For example,

  http://docs.python.org/3.1/tutorial/whatnow.html

refers to www.scipy.org as "the Scientific Python" project.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! I hope the
                                  at               ``Eurythmics'' practice
                               visi.com            birth control ...


From exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  Mon Aug 17 15:41:55 2009
From: exarkun at twistedmatrix.com (exarkun at twistedmatrix.com)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:41:55 -0000
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<4434e799-d907-49ca-93ee-a4be3276f9c2@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<3c0abe16-f05a-4c5f-9773-f813bc424f14@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <20090817194155.8740.902674574.divmod.xquotient.69@localhost.localdomain>

On 06:32 pm, pavlovevidence at gmail.com wrote:
>On Aug 17, 4:40?am, exar... at twistedmatrix.com wrote:
>>On 02:12 am, pavlovevide... at gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> >On Aug 16, 3:35?pm, sturlamolden  wrote:
>> >>On 16 Aug, 14:57, Dennis Lee Bieber  wrote:
>>
>> >> > ? ? ? ? Well, the alternative would be to have two keywords for
>> >>looping: one
>> >> > for your "simple" incrementing integer loop, and another for a 
>>loop
>> >>that
>> >> > operates over the elements of some collection type.
>>
>> >>A compiler could easily recognise a statement like
>>
>> >>? ?for i in range(n):
>>
>> >>as a simple integer loop.
>>
>> >It would be a simple to do if you were writing it for a different
>> >langauge was a lot less dynamic than Python is. ?It'd be quite a
>> >complex hack to add it to CPython's compiler while maintaing the
>> >current highly dynamic runtime semantics and backwards compatibility,
>> >which is a design constraint of Python whether you like it or not.
>>
>>In your other message, you said this wasn't a legitimate CPython
>>complaint. ?Here, you say that it would be a "complex hack" to 
>>implement
>>this in CPython. ?"complex hack" has negative connotations in my mind.
>>This seems contradictory to me.
>
>Well, you missed the point, chief.
>
>It's not a legitimate complaint because you can use xrange, you don't
>need compiler magic to recognize and optimize range.

There's a lot of things in Python that I don't strictly *need*.  That 
doesn't mean that they wouldn't be welcome if I could have them. 
Getting rid of the range/xrange dichotomy would improve things.  Yes, I 
can work around it until the runtime is good enough to let me think 
about an *interesting* problem instead.  That makes it a legitimate 
complaint in my eyes.  You're welcome to disagree, of course, but do you 
have an argument more compelling than the one you give here?  It seems 
to me one could use it to argue a lot of Python out of existence. 
Chief.  (Seriously, "chief"?  What are you going for?  It sounds like 
condescension to me; what's the point of that?  I hope I'm just 
misreading you.)

Jean-Paul


From jon at ffconsultancy.com  Mon Aug 17 15:42:38 2009
From: jon at ffconsultancy.com (Jon Harrop)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 20:42:38 +0100
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<269572f2-5968-479b-a7e6-d3354a769250@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<60bd3cab-1cab-4677-b640-8d126343615a@d9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Xah Lee wrote:
> On Aug 12, 12:15 pm, Raymond Hettinger  wrote:
>> * The reason for implementing the key= parameter had nothing to do
>> with limitations of Python's compiler.  Instead, it was inspired by
>> the
>> decorate-sort-undecorate pattern.
> 
> The decorate-sort-undecorate pattern is a compiler limitation, for
> most of today's langs. I'm not sure, but i think some of the fancy
> functional langs automatically detect such and optimize it away, to
> various degrees.

You mean people use that pattern as a fast alternative in languages where
user-defined functions are very slow, like Python and Mathematica?

-- 
Dr Jon D Harrop, Flying Frog Consultancy Ltd.
http://www.ffconsultancy.com/?u


From brochu121 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 15:51:19 2009
From: brochu121 at gmail.com (David Brochu)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 15:51:19 -0400
Subject: comparing XML files to eachother
Message-ID: <9583ed900908171251k50fafaefrd626439bf1bd9a3c@mail.gmail.com>

I need to compare one xml document to another to see if the content matches.
Unfortunately, the formatting (spacing) and order of elements may change
between files from run to run. I have looked into xml dom minidom but can't
seem to find how to accomplish this. Does anyone know how I can do a compare
between two XML documents using the STL?
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From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 15:59:43 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 12:59:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
References:  
	<02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	 
	
	<4434e799-d907-49ca-93ee-a4be3276f9c2@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<3c0abe16-f05a-4c5f-9773-f813bc424f14@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> 
	
	
	
Message-ID: <6c86d734-61b8-48e2-aa28-a62dfbd2ee75@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 17, 12:41?pm, exar... at twistedmatrix.com wrote:
> There's a lot of things in Python that I don't strictly *need*. ?That
> doesn't mean that they wouldn't be welcome if I could have them.
> Getting rid of the range/xrange dichotomy would improve things. ?Yes, I
> can work around it until the runtime is good enough to let me think
> about an *interesting* problem instead.

You don't have to think about using xrange in a for loop, you just
always use it.

>?That makes it a legitimate
> complaint in my eyes. ?You're welcome to disagree, of course, but do you
> have an argument more compelling than the one you give here?

I am not arguing in favor of range/xrange, I am saying that it's silly
to complain that the compiler isn't a whole lot more complex than it
is just so it can implemnent a semantically-diconnected special case
just so that you can avoid typing an extra "x".  The cost doesn't even
remotely justify it.


Carl Banks


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 16:00:44 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 13:00:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
References:  
	<02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	 
	
	<4434e799-d907-49ca-93ee-a4be3276f9c2@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<3c0abe16-f05a-4c5f-9773-f813bc424f14@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> 
	
	
	
	<6c86d734-61b8-48e2-aa28-a62dfbd2ee75@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <15810fe6-604b-49e8-8bd6-b3766bf9f993@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 17, 12:59?pm, Carl Banks  wrote:
>?The cost doesn't even remotely justify it.

I mean, it doesn't even remotely justify the cost.

Carl Banks


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Mon Aug 17 16:05:13 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 22:05:13 +0200
Subject: zip codes
References: <35833d36-2fdc-4ed8-8142-604af3c88afe@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
	<512e67d9-8733-4329-a7d9-c6e21d6a2165@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Grant Edwards  (GE) wrote:

>GE> On 2009-08-16, Shailen  wrote:
>>> Thanks Martin and Aahz. Anyone know if zip code information is
>>> copyrighted for the US?

>GE> You can't copyright "information" as such.  Only concrete
>GE> expressions of information.  A particular publication
>GE> containing zip code information can be copyrighted.  The
>GE> underlying facts themselve cannot be.

But that doesn't help you if you need that information and the only way
to obtain it is from copyrighted sources.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From ronn.ross at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 16:18:17 2009
From: ronn.ross at gmail.com (Ronn Ross)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 16:18:17 -0400
Subject: Barcodes
Message-ID: <9c8c445f0908171318x2d9d862bi35ccb398376aceca@mail.gmail.com>

My company needs a small inventory management app. Does python have any
libraries to help with reading and writing bar codes?
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From aaron.watters at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 16:35:02 2009
From: aaron.watters at gmail.com (Aaron Watters)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 13:35:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: off topic: google groups sucks?
References: <087f64b6-0cc7-4a75-a2ba-9ca74d31f1fd@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<082ae712-a55f-4bd6-aa07-71f6d4c2253b@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> 
	<784a24a3-066e-45b9-81e7-bed187e9f012@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <51877a03-b6de-4131-90d8-13cd618236aa@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 17, 1:44?pm, John Yeung  wrote:
> Thanks, Aaron, for confirming that it's not just me!

yea, unfortunately this kind of thing happens in monopolies
that have no viable competition anymore... Sometimes I begin
to suspect that I'm seeing the results that I should want
rather than the results I want.

(Lucene has this property
too -- you get the results the algorithm wants you to get,
rather than the results you want to get.)

    -- Aaron Watters

===
In communism the future is certain,
but the past is ever changing.


From jordilin at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 16:37:13 2009
From: jordilin at gmail.com (jordilin)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 13:37:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Data visualization in Python
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 17 ago, 21:10, kj  wrote:
> I'm looking for a good Python package for visualizing
> scientific/statistical data. ?(FWIW, the OS I'm interested in is
> Mac OS X).
>
> The users of this package will be experimental biologists with
> little programming experience (but currently learning Python).
>
> (I normally visualize data using R or Mathematica, but I don't want
> to saddle these novices with the task of learning yet another
> language.)
>
> TIA!
>
> kynn
Matplotlib is the one. There is Google Chart api which seems fairly
easy to understand and use thanks to pygooglechart bindings.


From emile at fenx.com  Mon Aug 17 16:44:52 2009
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 13:44:52 -0700
Subject: Barcodes
In-Reply-To: <9c8c445f0908171318x2d9d862bi35ccb398376aceca@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9c8c445f0908171318x2d9d862bi35ccb398376aceca@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

On 8/17/2009 1:18 PM Ronn Ross said...
> My company needs a small inventory management app. Does python have any 
> libraries to help with reading and writing bar codes?

I've written bar code apps and python really doesn't enter into that 
part of things.  Printers generally have bar code printing capabilities 
so you just send the right escape sequences and you get the bar codes. 
To read them, bar code readers scan and translate before sending the 
values through typically a keyboard wedge or serial port.

Emile



From hani.mousli at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 16:47:44 2009
From: hani.mousli at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?2YfYp9mG2Yog2KfZhNmF2YjYtdmE2Yo=?=)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 13:47:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Strongly typed list
Message-ID: 

Hello, I am using eclips for python and i am facing a problem. I have
many classes with many properties and want a list of objects from one
of my declared classes. The problem is:When i am accessing any item
from the list, the IDE does not know it's type because in python we do
not declare the variable with it's type, so there is no auto complete
and i have to go to the class to copy the attribute name. To make idea
more clear:

class AutomataBranch(object):
    def __init__(selfparams):
        self.Name="";
        self.nodes=[];

class LanguageAutomata(object):
    def __init__(selfparams):
        self.cfgAutomata=[];#This has AutomaBranch Type
Now in any method in LanguageAutomata class if i wrote: cfgAutomata.
Then it wont give me the Name attribute Is there any solution for
that?
Perhaps of there is some thing like C# List
cfgAutomata such that the list wont accept items unless they are
AutomataBranch will be good.


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Mon Aug 17 16:55:23 2009
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 15:55:23 -0500
Subject: Barcodes
In-Reply-To: 
References: <9c8c445f0908171318x2d9d862bi35ccb398376aceca@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <4A89C3BB.2030605@tim.thechases.com>

>> My company needs a small inventory management app. Does
>> python have any libraries to help with reading and writing
>> bar codes?
> 
> I've written bar code apps and python really doesn't enter
> into that part of things.  Printers generally have bar code
> printing capabilities so you just send the right escape
> sequences and you get the bar codes. To read them, bar code
> readers scan and translate before sending the values through
> typically a keyboard wedge or serial port.

To add to what Emile mentions, most barcode readers present a 
keyboard-wedge interface, so that scanning a barcode merely 
appears as if you typed it at the keyboard (USB readers show up 
as a HID profile).  Often they'll have configuration barcodes 
that you can scan to tweak the profile (such as pressing , 
 or an arrow-key after sending the barcode; controlling beep 
tone & volume, etc).

For printing barcodes, you can use any number of solutions -- the 
most popular usually just involves installing a "barcode font" 
and then rendering text in that font to your desired output 
canvas.  I believe there are some native rendering solutions as 
well, but I've not investigated since the font method was more 
than sufficient for my wants.

-tkc





From http  Mon Aug 17 16:56:13 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 17 Aug 2009 13:56:13 -0700
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<269572f2-5968-479b-a7e6-d3354a769250@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<60bd3cab-1cab-4677-b640-8d126343615a@d9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <7xtz06cg7m.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Jon Harrop  writes:
> You mean people use that pattern as a fast alternative in languages where
> user-defined functions are very slow, like Python and Mathematica?

It really doesn't matter whether the language is fast or slow--there
are going to be applications where calling the comparison function
multiple times per element is slower than calling it once per element
and storing the result.

Note the Haskell idiom (sortBy (compare`on`f) xs) is similar to DSU
but calls the comparison function multiple times.

Python 3.0 went overboard by actually removing the cmp argument and
requiring use of the key argument.  That requires various kludges if
the key is, say, a tree structure that has to be recursively compared
with another such structure.  Maybe then can bring back cmp someday.


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 17:06:04 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:06:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> 
	
	
Message-ID: <1fa1663b-a1cb-42d4-890b-0617b73e8816@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 17, 10:03?am, Jean-Michel Pichavant 
wrote:
> I'm no English native, but I already heard women/men referring to a
> group as "guys", no matter that group gender configuration. It's even
> used for group composed exclusively of women. Moreover it looks like a
> *very* friendly form, so there is really nothing to worry about it.

I like how being very friendly means calling people after a guy who
tried to blow up the English Parliament.


Carl Banks


From xahlee at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 17:09:54 2009
From: xahlee at gmail.com (Xah Lee)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:09:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Xah's Edu Corner: The importance of syntax & notations.
References: 
	<25203724-bf60-484f-9ede-e61c45f15e33@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: 

http://www.stephenwolfram.com/publications/recent/mathml/index.html

i was trying to find the publication date and context, but didn't find
it last time after a couple min.  Yesterday, on rereading, i did. The
article in question is:

?
Mathematical Notation: Past and Future (2000)

Stephen Wolfram
October 20, 2000
Transcript of a keynote address presented at
MathML and Math on the Web: MathML International Conference 2000
?

so, it's a speech for MathML conf in 2000.

so, this explains the error on the plimpton 322. The latest discovery
on that is published in 2002 and later.

the date of this speech also explains parts of the writings about some
mysterious ?fundamental science work?, which now we know is his
controversial book A New Kind Of Science (2002).

  Xah
? http://xahlee.org/

?

----------------------
Xah Lee  wrote:

Personally, particular interesting info i've learned is that, for all
my trouble in the past decade expressing problems of traditional math
notation, i learned from his article this single-phrase summary:
?traditional math notation lacks a grammar?.  The article is somewhat
disappointing though. I was expecting he'd go into some details about
the science of math notations, or, as he put it aptly: ?linguistics of
math notations?. However, he didn't touch the subject, except saying
that it haven't been studied.

upon a more detailed reading of Stephen's article, i discovered some
errors.

On this page:http://www.stephenwolfram.com/publications/recent/mathml/
mathml2.html

he mentions the Plimpton 322 tablet. It is widely taught in math
history books, that this table is pythagorean triples.

On reading his article, i wanted to refresh my understanding of the
subject, so i looked up Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plimpton_322

and behold!

apparantly, in recent academic publications, it is suggested that this
is not pythagorean triples, but rather: ?a list of regular reciprocal
pairs?.

  Xah
?http://xahlee.org/

?


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 17:12:51 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:12:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Diversity in Python (was Re: Need cleanup advice for multiline 
	string)
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> 
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 17, 8:44?am, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
> In article <461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8... at o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
> Robert Dailey ? wrote:
>
>
>
> >It's a figure of speech. And besides, why would I want programming
> >advice from a woman? lol. Thanks for the help.
>
> Well, I'm sorry to see this, it means I was wrong about the lack of
> sexism in the Python community.

Oh come on, one newbie making an off-color joke is not any sort of
reflection of the community as a whole.

Anyway it's pretty naive to expect what is now a large community to
avoid bad eggs altogether.  Price you pay for popularity.


Carl Banks


From fabiofz at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 17:13:10 2009
From: fabiofz at gmail.com (Fabio Zadrozny)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 18:13:10 -0300
Subject: Strongly typed list
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

> Hello, I am using eclips for python and i am facing a problem. I have
> many classes with many properties and want a list of objects from one
> of my declared classes. The problem is:When i am accessing any item
> from the list, the IDE does not know it's type because in python we do
> not declare the variable with it's type, so there is no auto complete
> and i have to go to the class to copy the attribute name. To make idea
> more clear:
>
> class AutomataBranch(object):
> ? ?def __init__(selfparams):
> ? ? ? ?self.Name="";
> ? ? ? ?self.nodes=[];
>
> class LanguageAutomata(object):
> ? ?def __init__(selfparams):
> ? ? ? ?self.cfgAutomata=[];#This has AutomaBranch Type
> Now in any method in LanguageAutomata class if i wrote: cfgAutomata.
> Then it wont give me the Name attribute Is there any solution for
> that?
> Perhaps of there is some thing like C# List
> cfgAutomata such that the list wont accept items unless they are
> AutomataBranch will be good.


Hello,

Unfortunately, right now there is no way to gather that specific code
completion in pydev -- because of the dynamic nature of python, that
info is very hard to get.

Best Regards,

Fabio


From hani.mousli at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 17:19:01 2009
From: hani.mousli at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?2YfYp9mG2Yog2KfZhNmF2YjYtdmE2Yo=?=)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:19:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Strongly typed list
References: 
	
Message-ID: <7718922b-c72c-4a7e-90a3-098318063013@n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

Please could you lead me to a way or a good IDE that makes developing
huge projects in python more easier than what i found.Now i am using
eclips. Actually it is very hard to remember all my classes methods
and attributes or copy and paste them each time.
Thanks very much for your interest
Hani Almousli.....


From xahlee at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 17:26:32 2009
From: xahlee at gmail.com (Xah Lee)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:26:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: python doc available in emacs info format?
References: 
	<4a893f9a$0$307$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
Message-ID: <03e865a3-5789-424c-9851-7567fcf00fa6@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

> Please do not slag off a project if you want people to help;
> it tends to put the goat up.

a healthy community needs both positive comment as well as negative to
grow.

emacs's user base has been rotting off from i estimate more than 50%
of programers to less that 1% today.

the particular observation about info doc in this thread is a specific
example.

You can help FSF and emacs to improve, by, for example, trying to help
it to evolve with the rapidly changing computing industry, In this
case, document formats, provided if you see some of my points as
valid. Or, at least consider this eroding awareness of the gnu info
format among average programers worth discussing. No disrespect to
you, but dismissing it as ?troll? or similiar sentiment is not
helpful.

emacs community is too much cult and pride. FSF and its product the
GNU was highly successful in the 1980 and 1990s, with its gcc, emacs,
and slew of gnu version of unix tools. A significant part of the
reason is because these products at the time is truely better products
in comparison to existing ones, that there are almost no substitute.
Today, for many variety and complexity of reasons, almost none of this
is true, except possiblly a few such as gcc and GPG. The unix shells
ways and sed, awk, etc tools has largely been replaced by perl,
python, ruby etc, partly due to the changing nature of computing. For
GCC itself, and make, yacc, bison etc there are tens of competiting
products either commercial or open source. Then there's Java, with its
entire suite of tools and libs, and there are tens of truely quality
languages out there today other then the ones that GCC can handle.

emacs 23, although is fantastic to us emacs fans, but if you look
carefully at its feature list, most of it is widely in commericial
software about 10 years ago.

  Xah
? http://xahlee.org/

?


On Aug 17, 4:32 am, "Colin S. Miller"  wrote:
> Xah Lee wrote:
> > btw, is there still info format for python doc?
>
> > i feel kinda sad that emacs info format has pretty much been
> > deprecated over the past decade. About a decade ago, you still will
> > see now and then people asking for emacs info format of docs (was the
> > days of perl). Today, one don't hear of it.
>
> > Part of this is due to emacs cult problem. See:
>
> Xah,
>
> Please do not slag off a project if you want people to help;
> it tends to put the goat up.
>
> It is not "Emacs Info" format, it is FSF Info format.
> There is a stand-alone program to read the Info documentation.
> The program is called "info".
>
> Ubuntu maintains a package search site, it is onhttp://packages.ubuntu.com/
>
> However, there seems to be no files named
> python.*info   (regexp)
>
> There is a
> python-docutils package
> which does contain information in several
> other formats.
>
> This package can be found either via the above site
> or using "apt-cache search python-doc".
>
> As "info" is a FSF format, all FSF produced programs
> will provide documentation in this format. However Python
> is not under the auspices of the FSF, so does not need to use
> this format.
>
> BTW,
> HTML versions of INFO documentation can be generated by
> info2html or info_to_html on them, or texi2html on the source.
>
> Have a nice day,
> Colin S. Miller


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Mon Aug 17 17:31:51 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:31:51 -0700
Subject: Diversity in Python (was Re: Need cleanup advice for multiline 
	string)
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908171431i36557d40wc5b85c67e0dc193d@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Carl Banks wrote:
> On Aug 17, 8:44?am, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
>> In article <461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8... at o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
>> Robert Dailey ? wrote:
>> >It's a figure of speech. And besides, why would I want programming
>> >advice from a woman? lol. Thanks for the help.
>>
>> Well, I'm sorry to see this, it means I was wrong about the lack of
>> sexism in the Python community.
>
> Oh come on, one newbie making an off-color joke is not any sort of
> reflection of the community as a whole.
>
> Anyway it's pretty naive to expect what is now a large community to
> avoid bad eggs altogether. ?Price you pay for popularity.

Agreed on both points, but the lack of any reprimanding for making
said inappropriate joke /would/ reflect badly on the community.
Fortunately, said person's behavior has now been condemned by virtue
of this thread; it's a step in the right direction.

Cheers,
Chris


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Aug 17 17:41:54 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 22:41:54 +0100
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
In-Reply-To: <1fa1663b-a1cb-42d4-890b-0617b73e8816@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: 	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
		
	<1fa1663b-a1cb-42d4-890b-0617b73e8816@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A89CEA2.10400@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Carl Banks wrote:
> On Aug 17, 10:03 am, Jean-Michel Pichavant 
> wrote:
>> I'm no English native, but I already heard women/men referring to a
>> group as "guys", no matter that group gender configuration. It's even
>> used for group composed exclusively of women. Moreover it looks like a
>> *very* friendly form, so there is really nothing to worry about it.
> 
> I like how being very friendly means calling people after a guy who
> tried to blow up the English Parliament.
> 
Guy Fawkes adopted the name Guido while fighting for the Spanish in the
Low Countries:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes



From nat.k at gm.ml  Mon Aug 17 18:16:56 2009
From: nat.k at gm.ml (Nathan Keel)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 15:16:56 -0700
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<269572f2-5968-479b-a7e6-d3354a769250@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<60bd3cab-1cab-4677-b640-8d126343615a@d9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

Jon Harrop wrote:

> Xah Lee wrote:
>> On Aug 12, 12:15 pm, Raymond Hettinger  wrote:
>>> * The reason for implementing the key= parameter had nothing to do
>>> with limitations of Python's compiler.  Instead, it was inspired by
>>> the
>>> decorate-sort-undecorate pattern.
>> 
>> The decorate-sort-undecorate pattern is a compiler limitation, for
>> most of today's langs. I'm not sure, but i think some of the fancy
>> functional langs automatically detect such and optimize it away, to
>> various degrees.
> 
> You mean people use that pattern as a fast alternative in languages
> where user-defined functions are very slow, like Python and
> Mathematica?
> 


Do not give this "Xah Lee" idiot any attention. This asshole posts only
self-serving nonsense, because he thinks it makes him sound important
(when in reality, he is absolutely clueless).  This idiot always cross
posts to 5 or more different groups that have nothing to do with his
attempts to impress people (which always fail).  He's incredibly
arrogant, yet incredibly clueless.


From zorigaman at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 18:26:23 2009
From: zorigaman at gmail.com (Zorigaman)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 15:26:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Embedding a python console inside a python application
References: 
Message-ID: <15807e7d-2b96-4f25-8998-7506743c5fea@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On 17 ao?t, 20:46, Zorigaman  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am starting an application in which I would like to have some
> scripting functionality. It will obviously be done in Python. The
> thing is that I would like my scripts to have access to the rest of
> the application as an object it could manipulate.
> I made some research and I found the code module, which allows to have
> a Python interpreter inside an application, but I am not sure if I can
> access to the "parent" which created this interpreter. A solution
> could be to launch my application through an interpreter, but the
> problem there is how to integrate it back into the GUI, redirecting
> streams ?
> Another option is the cmd module, but here, same problem, I am not
> sure if can have access to my application's objects.
> I am using PyQt with Python 2.6.1, I could switch to Python 3.0 if
> necessary.
> I am familiar with programming, but that's my first script-enabled
> application, tell me if I am missing something obvious.
>
> http://docs.python.org/library/code.htmlhttp://docs.python.org/library/cmd.html

D'oh. The code module offers exactly what I need, you can specify
object in the interpreter's constructor. D'oh.


From nospam at nospam.com  Mon Aug 17 18:26:47 2009
From: nospam at nospam.com (Gilles Ganault)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 00:26:47 +0200
Subject: Converting DD MM YYYY into YYYY-MM-DD?
Message-ID: 

Hello,

	I need to convert DD MM YYYY dates into the MySQL-friendly
YYYY-MM-DD, and translate the month name from literal French to its
numeric equivalent (eg. "Janvier" into "01").

Here's an example:

SELECT dateinscription, dateconnexion FROM membres LIMIT 1;
26 Mai 2007|17 Ao?t 2009 - 09h20

I'd like to update the row into "2007-05-26" and "2009-08-17 09:20",
respectively.

What is the best way to do this in Python?

Thank you.


From python at rcn.com  Mon Aug 17 18:42:55 2009
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 15:42:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<269572f2-5968-479b-a7e6-d3354a769250@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com> 
	<60bd3cab-1cab-4677-b640-8d126343615a@d9g2000prh.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: 

[Xah Lee]
> This part i don't particular agree:
>
> > * The reason for implementing the key= parameter had nothing to do
> > with limitations of Python's compiler. ?Instead, it was inspired by
> > the
> > decorate-sort-undecorate pattern.
>
> The decorate-sort-undecorate pattern is a compiler limitation, for
> most of today's langs. I'm not sure, but i think some of the fancy
> functional langs automatically detect such and optimize it away, to
> various degrees.
>
> ... my criticism is usually written in a style catered to irritate a
> particular class of coder i call tech geekers (they think of themselfs
> with their idiotic term ?hackers?). So, parts are exaggerated. It'd be
> more clear to say, that the reason for python's ?key?, and as a
> ?solution? or need of the decorate-sort-undecorate issue, can be
> attributed to the current state of the art of popular imperative
> language's compilers (induced by such lang's semantics).

I'm not following you here.  If you're saying that it is possible
for a compiler to automatically transform a cmp argument into
a key argument, transforming O(n log n) calls into O(n) calls, then
I don't see how that could be done (a cmp argument can be a C function
that is not introspectable or an arbitrarily complex python function
that may be difficult to analyze and transform programmatically).

The key function was introduced as a simpler way for programmers
to write the commonly used decorate-sort-undecorate pattern --
compiler
limitations had nothing to do with it.

In general, key functions are not a terribly new or inflexible
concept.
The SORT BY clauses in SQL are an example.

That being said, it is a fair criticism of Python's compiler that it
does not do much in the way of optimizations.  It does a handful of
basic peephole optimizations but that is about it.  Other languages
like Haskell fair better in this regard.


Raymond


From gregor.lingl at aon.at  Mon Aug 17 19:14:57 2009
From: gregor.lingl at aon.at (Gregor Lingl)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 01:14:57 +0200
Subject: Splitting a string into substrings of equal size
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4a85ffe2$0$24643$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	
Message-ID: <4a89e480$0$2302$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>

Simon Forman schrieb:
> On Aug 14, 8:22 pm, candide  wrote:
>> Suppose you need to split a string into substrings of a given size (except
>> possibly the last substring). I make the hypothesis the first slice is at the
>> end of the string.
>> A typical example is provided by formatting a decimal string with thousands
>> separator.
>>
>> What is the pythonic way to do this ?
>>
...
>> Thanks
> 
> FWIW:
> 
> def chunks(s, length=3):
>     stop = len(s)
>     start = stop - length
>     while start > 0:
>         yield s[start:stop]
>         stop, start = start, start - length
>     yield s[:stop]
> 
> 
> s = '1234567890'
> print ','.join(reversed(list(chunks(s))))
> # prints '1,234,567,890'

or:

 >>> def chunks(s, length=3):
         i, j = 0, len(s) % length or length
         while i < len(s):
                 yield s[i:j]
                 i, j = j, j + length

 >>> print(','.join(list(chunks(s))))
1,234,567,890
 >>> print(','.join(list(chunks(s,2))))
12,34,56,78,90
 >>> print(','.join(list(chunks(s,4))))
12,3456,7890

Regards,
Gregor


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Mon Aug 17 19:30:39 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 09:30:39 +1000
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87ab1ykogw.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Robert Dailey  writes:

> On Aug 11, 3:40?pm, Bearophile  wrote:
> > Robert Dailey:
> > > This breaks the flow of scope. Would you guys solve this
> > > problem by [?]

> > There are gals too here.
>
> It's a figure of speech.

Indeed. When I use the term ?guys? as a form of address, it's intended
to be gender-neutral.

> And besides, why would I want programming advice from a woman? lol.

No, that's not worth any laughter, especially because there are still
too many people who seriously think that way. It's totally unacceptable.
Please don't promote sexist garbage like that here.

-- 
 \        ?With Lisp or Forth, a master programmer has unlimited power |
  `\     and expressiveness. With Python, even a regular guy can reach |
_o__)                               for the stars.? ?Raymond Hettinger |
Ben Finney


From jearl at notengoamigos.org  Mon Aug 17 19:30:59 2009
From: jearl at notengoamigos.org (Jason Earl)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:30:59 -0600
Subject: A Exhibition Of Tech Geekers Incompetence: Emacs whitespace-mode
References: <61ef4451-d6b6-493b-b4a0-1822a901ca8d@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <87ocqerpak.fsf@notengoamigos.org>

Xah Lee  writes:

> Fresh out of the oven:
>
> ? How to use and setup Emacs's whitespace-mode
>   http://xahlee.org/emacs/whitespace-mode.html
>
>   Xah
> ? http://xahlee.org/

Xah,

I disagree with you about the usefulness of whitespace-mode's defaults,
and I certainly disagree with the need to use profanity on your usenet
post on the subject, but it is hard to argue against your
whitespace-mode.html page.  Very well done.

Thanks,
Jason


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Mon Aug 17 19:55:49 2009
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 16:55:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Converting DD MM YYYY into YYYY-MM-DD?
References: 
Message-ID: <4fa932a9-3f8e-4882-ba53-2715ba15c7cf@32g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 17, 3:26?pm, Gilles Ganault  wrote:
> Hello,
>
> ? ? ? ? I need to convert DD MM YYYY dates into the MySQL-friendly
> YYYY-MM-DD, and translate the month name from literal French to its
> numeric equivalent (eg. "Janvier" into "01").
>
> Here's an example:
>
> SELECT dateinscription, dateconnexion FROM membres LIMIT 1;
> 26 Mai 2007|17 Ao?t 2009 - 09h20
>
> I'd like to update the row into "2007-05-26" and "2009-08-17 09:20",
> respectively.
>
> What is the best way to do this in Python?
>
> Thank you.



From cmpython at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 19:58:28 2009
From: cmpython at gmail.com (Che M)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 16:58:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Converting DD MM YYYY into YYYY-MM-DD?
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 17, 6:26?pm, Gilles Ganault  wrote:
> Hello,
>
> ? ? ? ? I need to convert DD MM YYYY dates into the MySQL-friendly
> YYYY-MM-DD, and translate the month name from literal French to its
> numeric equivalent (eg. "Janvier" into "01").
>
> Here's an example:
>
> SELECT dateinscription, dateconnexion FROM membres LIMIT 1;
> 26 Mai 2007|17 Ao?t 2009 - 09h20
>
> I'd like to update the row into "2007-05-26" and "2009-08-17 09:20",
> respectively.
>
> What is the best way to do this in Python?
>
> Thank you.

Likely this is not the best way, but I would do, for
the first one (and the same idea for the second):

def convert(date):
    frenchdict = {'Mai':'May'} #etc...
    day = mystring[:2]
    month = frenchdict[ mystring[3:6] ]
    year = mystring[7:11]
    newdate = year+'-'+month+'-'+day
    print 'newdate is ', newdate



From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Mon Aug 17 19:59:21 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 16:59:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> 
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <56159dcf-b27d-418f-a8a4-0e4ebb71faa3@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 12, 6:52?am, Robert Dailey  wrote:
> On Aug 11, 3:40?pm, Bearophile  wrote:
>
> > Robert Dailey:
>
> > > This breaks the flow of scope. Would you guys solve this
> > > problem by moving failMsg into global scope?
> > > Perhaps through some other type of syntax?
>
> > There are gals too here.
> > This may help:http://docs.python.org/library/textwrap.html#textwrap.dedent
>
> > Bye,
> > bearophile
>
> It's a figure of speech. And besides, why would I want programming
> advice from a woman? lol. Thanks for the help.

Please consider having an attitude transplant.


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Mon Aug 17 20:05:28 2009
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:05:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Converting DD MM YYYY into YYYY-MM-DD?
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 17, 3:26?pm, Gilles Ganault  wrote:
> ? ? ? ? I need to convert DD MM YYYY dates into the MySQL-friendly
> YYYY-MM-DD, and translate the month name from literal French to its
> numeric equivalent (eg. "Janvier" into "01").
>
> Here's an example:
>
> SELECT dateinscription, dateconnexion FROM membres LIMIT 1;
> 26 Mai 2007|17 Ao?t 2009 - 09h20
>
> I'd like to update the row into "2007-05-26" and "2009-08-17 09:20",
> respectively.
>
> What is the best way to do this in Python?
>

Unfortunately, there isn't any string to date parsers in the built-
ins. Not to worry, though, since writing your own is easy, especially
if you use regular expressions from the re module. I suggest using an
RE such as:

    r"(?P\d+)\s+(?P\w+)\s+(?P\d+)"

If you want to translate month names to month numbers, then you need
some sort of dict to do so. Unfortunately, there isn't a terrific
standard for this, so your best bet is to put it in some file
somewhere, or even hard-code it in your code. (Month names won't
change over the lifetime of your program, so it's reasonable to put
them in your code somewhere.)

    month_names_to_numbers = {
        'jan':1, ... }

Once you have the year, month, and date, formatting it is trivial with
the built-in formatter.

    "%04d-%02d%02d %02d:%02d" % (year, month, date, hour, minute)

The variety of date formats out there have prevented a universal,
clean solution to this problem. Until we all start sticking to the
same conventions, we will always have to write code to translate dates
from one format to another.


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Mon Aug 17 20:14:56 2009
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:14:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Strongly typed list
References: 
	
	<7718922b-c72c-4a7e-90a3-098318063013@n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 17, 2:19?pm, ???? ???????  wrote:
> Please could you lead me to a way or a good IDE that makes developing
> huge projects in python more easier than what i found.Now i am using
> eclips. Actually it is very hard to remember all my classes methods
> and attributes or copy and paste them each time.
> Thanks very much for your interest
> Hani Almousli.....

You're relying on your IDE too much. You should rely on the code and
on your own notes. Your project should never get big because there is
no reason to throw in a bunch of useless code.

Think of the simplest way to get your job done. Then write that in
pseudo-code. Finally, run it in Python to see if it actually works.
You may be surprised with how far that will get you.

If you are having problems remembering the attributes and methods of
your instances, you are probably using too many attributes and
methods, their names are too long, or you have too many arguments to
each method. Keep the interfaces between parts as simple as possible.

If you still have a big project, then break it up into several
smaller, re-usable, and independent modules. Keep the interfaces as
simple as possible, and never write code that does anything but Duck-
Typing.


From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 20:18:33 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:18:33 -0700
Subject: Converting DD MM YYYY into YYYY-MM-DD?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't  
http://docs.python.org/library/datetime.html#datetime.datetime.strptime do  
this?

>>> import locale
>>> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, 'FR')
   'French_France.1252'
>>> date_str = '05 Mai 2009 - 18h25'
>>> fmt = '%d %B %Y - %Hh%M'
>>> date_obj = datetime.strptime(date_str, fmt)
>>> date_obj
   datetime.datetime(2009, 5, 5, 18, 25)
>>> date_obj.strftime('%Y-%m-%d %H:%M')
   '2009-05-05 18:25'

If you're using a recent enough version of Python (2.5 and up) I'd imagine  
that's the best way to do it?

On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 16:58:28 -0700, Che M  wrote:

> On Aug 17, 6:26?pm, Gilles Ganault  wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> ? ? ? ? I need to convert DD MM YYYY dates into the MySQL-friendly
>> YYYY-MM-DD, and translate the month name from literal French to its
>> numeric equivalent (eg. "Janvier" into "01").
>>
>> Here's an example:
>>
>> SELECT dateinscription, dateconnexion FROM membres LIMIT 1;
>> 26 Mai 2007|17 Ao?t 2009 - 09h20
>>
>> I'd like to update the row into "2007-05-26" and "2009-08-17 09:20",
>> respectively.
>>
>> What is the best way to do this in Python?
>>
>> Thank you.
>
> Likely this is not the best way, but I would do, for
> the first one (and the same idea for the second):
>
> def convert(date):
>     frenchdict = {'Mai':'May'} #etc...
>     day = mystring[:2]
>     month = frenchdict[ mystring[3:6] ]
>     year = mystring[7:11]
>     newdate = year+'-'+month+'-'+day
>     print 'newdate is ', newdate
>



-- 
Rami Chowdhury
"Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --  
Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)


From cmpython at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 20:19:59 2009
From: cmpython at gmail.com (Che M)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:19:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: GUI interface builder for python
References: 
	<21bca3cf-b2c7-47d7-9142-26c9fd015f92@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <02ec7cd9-e749-46d3-8b25-75d85794f292@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 17, 2:26?pm, axl456  wrote:
> On Aug 17, 1:59?am, "L at D@n"  wrote:
>
> > Which is the best GUI interface builder with drag and drop
> > capabilities.
> > I am using Ubuntu GNU/Linux.
> > Please help me.
> > Thank you.
>
> boa is really nice..

Boa (Boa Constructor) is really nice for wxPython GUI
work, but it has some bugs when using Linux that might
be dealbreakers for the user.  At least I have had
problems on Ubuntu 8.10 64 bit (but none or very few
with WinXP).

For those that might care, they are (as of now, Boa
0.6.1-4) are:

- The File -> New option is cut off in the menu.  But
that can be gotten around by using the Palette to choose
the same options.

- No gridlines in the Frame Designer (makes it harder
  to use)

- Some problems with the height of the rows in the
  Inspector, at least with 64 bit Ubuntu, some of which
  can be fixed with this workaround:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/boa-constructor/+bug/313952
  and there is a note there saying it has been patched
  in a 0.6.1-6 version in a Debian repository.  Haven't tried.

- I have had some random shutdowns, but not many.

Che


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Mon Aug 17 20:20:05 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:20:05 +1000
Subject: Converting DD MM YYYY into YYYY-MM-DD?
References: 
Message-ID: <8763cmkm6i.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Gilles Ganault  writes:

> 	I need to convert DD MM YYYY dates into the MySQL-friendly
> YYYY-MM-DD

This is not specific to MySQL. It is the common international standard
date representation format defined by ISO 8601.

> and translate the month name from literal French to its numeric
> equivalent (eg. "Janvier" into "01").

The simplest way to do this would be by a mapping from month-name to
month-number.

An obvious, and wrong, approach to this would be to hard-code the twelve
month names into your program data.

Instead, you should generate the map based on the standard library (in
this case, the underlying C standard library) locale database
:

>>> import locale
>>> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_TIME, "en_AU.UTF-8")
>>> months = dict(
...     (locale.nl_langinfo(getattr(locale, key)), i)
...     for (key, i) in (
...         ('MON_%(i)d' % vars(), i)
...         for i in range(1, 12+1)))

>>> import pprint
>>> pprint.pprint(months)
{'April': 4,
 'August': 8,
 'December': 12,
 'February': 2,
 'January': 1,
 'July': 7,
 'June': 6,
 'March': 3,
 'May': 5,
 'November': 11,
 'October': 10,
 'September': 9}

Of course, if you can avoid having to generate this mapping at all in
your program, that's best; see below.

> Here's an example:
>
> SELECT dateinscription, dateconnexion FROM membres LIMIT 1;
> 26 Mai 2007|17 Ao?t 2009 - 09h20
>
> I'd like to update the row into "2007-05-26" and "2009-08-17 09:20",
> respectively.

Storing a timestamp as a text attribute in a database seems perverse and
begging for trouble. Doesn't the database have a timestamp data type? Or
perhaps that's what you're trying to achieve?

> What is the best way to do this in Python?

The ?datetime.strptime? function will create a Python ?datetime? object
from a string, parsed according to a format
.

I don't know whether that function allows for month names in the current
locale (as set by ?locale.setlocale(locale.LC_TIME, ?)?). If it does,
that's the right way, since it doesn't involve explciitly generating the
mapping as shown above.

Use your preferred Python-to-database library to feed that ?datetime?
object directly to the database and store it in an attribute of the
native database timestamp type.

Then, format the timestamp value at the point of outputting that value,
instead of storing the text representation in the database.

-- 
 \         ?To succeed in the world it is not enough to be stupid, you |
  `\                            must also be well-mannered.? ?Voltaire |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From mensanator at aol.com  Mon Aug 17 20:40:42 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:40:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> 
	
	 
	<1fa1663b-a1cb-42d4-890b-0617b73e8816@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <9b8c48a3-b050-4a13-83f5-bc4185c62bdc@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 17, 4:06?pm, Carl Banks  wrote:
> On Aug 17, 10:03?am, Jean-Michel Pichavant 
> wrote:
>
> > I'm no English native, but I already heard women/men referring to a
> > group as "guys", no matter that group gender configuration. It's even
> > used for group composed exclusively of women. Moreover it looks like a
> > *very* friendly form, so there is really nothing to worry about it.
>
> I like how being very friendly means calling people after a guy who
> tried to blow up the English Parliament.

So?

>
> Carl Banks



From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 21:04:58 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 18:04:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> 
	
	 
	<1fa1663b-a1cb-42d4-890b-0617b73e8816@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> 
	<9b8c48a3-b050-4a13-83f5-bc4185c62bdc@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 17, 5:40?pm, Mensanator  wrote:
> On Aug 17, 4:06?pm, Carl Banks  wrote:
>
> > On Aug 17, 10:03?am, Jean-Michel Pichavant 
> > wrote:
>
> > > I'm no English native, but I already heard women/men referring to a
> > > group as "guys", no matter that group gender configuration. It's even
> > > used for group composed exclusively of women. Moreover it looks like a
> > > *very* friendly form, so there is really nothing to worry about it.
>
> > I like how being very friendly means calling people after a guy who
> > tried to blow up the English Parliament.
>
> So?

I also like how making an amusing pointless observation gets people
all huffy.

(BTW, lest anyone is not aware, that is the origin of the word "guy",
this was not some random association.)

Carl Banks


From magawake at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 21:33:29 2009
From: magawake at gmail.com (Mag Gam)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 21:33:29 -0400
Subject: unittest
In-Reply-To: <1cbd6f830908160625m5a8ffa9er7e34c203f30fca49@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1cbd6f830908142028v638a4c06jf0f859be712e724c@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<1cbd6f830908160625m5a8ffa9er7e34c203f30fca49@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1cbd6f830908171833p73109091ga612b2ec719d28eb@mail.gmail.com>

all, thank you very much!!!

Now my question is, how do I simulate a argv? My program has take an
argv, like "foo.py File" is necessary. How and where do I put it in my
test? I suppose in the setUp(), but I am not sure how.

any thoughts or ideas?

TIA

On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 9:25 AM, Mag Gam wrote:
> John:
>
> Well, this is actually a script which wraps around another application. :-)
> My goal is when I introduce a new feature I don't want to break old
> stuff so instead of me testing manually I want to build a framework of
> tests.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 11:37 PM, John Haggerty wrote:
>> This is an interesting question. I am just wondering: do you really have
>> that many features that it would be impossible to just have a shell script
>> run specific types of input or tests?
>>
>> When I did programming in the past for education they just had lists of
>> input data and we ran the program against the test data.
>>
>> I just get slightly confused when "test suites" start to have to apply?
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 9:28 PM, Mag Gam  wrote:
>>>
>>> I am writing an application which has many command line arguments.
>>> For example: foo.py -args "bar bee"
>>>
>>> I would like to create a test suit using unittest so when I add
>>> features to "foo.py" I don't want to break other things. I just heard
>>> about unittest and would love to use it for this type of thing.
>>>
>>> so my question is, when I do these tests do I have to code them into
>>> foo.py? I prefer having a footest.py which will run the regression
>>> tests. Any thoughts about this?
>>>
>>> TIA
>>> --
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>>
>


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Mon Aug 17 22:06:37 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 12:06:37 +1000
Subject: Converting DD MM YYYY into YYYY-MM-DD?
References: 
	
Message-ID: <87skfpkh8y.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Jonathan Gardner  writes:

> Unfortunately, there isn't any string to date parsers in the built-
> ins.

Fortunately, Python 2.5 or later has the ?datetime.strptime? function.

-- 
 \       ?You could augment an earwig to the point where it understood |
  `\     nuclear physics, but it would still be a very stupid thing to |
_o__)                              do!? ?The Doctor, _The Two Doctors_ |
Ben Finney


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Mon Aug 17 22:31:36 2009
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:31:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Converting DD MM YYYY into YYYY-MM-DD?
References: 
	<8763cmkm6i.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <91da9c54-a152-469b-81b0-65b99a532a1a@d4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 17, 5:20?pm, Ben Finney  wrote:
>
> Instead, you should generate the map based on the standard library (in
> this case, the underlying C standard library) locale database
> :
>

Does Windows support POSIX locales?



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Mon Aug 17 22:32:06 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 12:32:06 +1000
Subject: unittest
References: <1cbd6f830908142028v638a4c06jf0f859be712e724c@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<1cbd6f830908160625m5a8ffa9er7e34c203f30fca49@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <87ocqdkg2h.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Mag Gam  writes:

> all, thank you very much!!!
>
> Now my question is

You would do well to ask more about testing in Python on the focussed
forum for that topic, the ?testing-in-python? mailing list
.

-- 
 \        ?If it ain't bust don't fix it is a very sound principle and |
  `\      remains so despite the fact that I have slavishly ignored it |
_o__)                                     all my life.? ?Douglas Adams |
Ben Finney


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Mon Aug 17 22:36:24 2009
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:36:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Converting DD MM YYYY into YYYY-MM-DD?
References: 
	
	<87skfpkh8y.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 17, 7:06?pm, Ben Finney  wrote:
> Jonathan Gardner  writes:
> > Unfortunately, there isn't any string to date parsers in the built-
> > ins.
>
> Fortunately, Python 2.5 or later has the ?datetime.strptime? function.
>

Hate to weasel out of this one, but the language that strptime
provides is pretty limited. I don't find it useful except in the
trivial cases. Same goes for strftime. Also, both of these are very
Western European centric. Yes, Asian languages are supported but not
naturally.


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Mon Aug 17 22:38:34 2009
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:38:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Converting DD MM YYYY into YYYY-MM-DD?
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 17, 5:18?pm, "Rami Chowdhury"  wrote:
>
> >>> import locale
> >>> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, 'FR')

locale is nice when you only have a single thread.

Webservers aren't single threaded. You can't serve up one page for one
locale and then another in another locale without seeing very, very
weird behavior.


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Mon Aug 17 22:46:24 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 12:46:24 +1000
Subject: Converting DD MM YYYY into YYYY-MM-DD?
References: 
	<8763cmkm6i.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<91da9c54-a152-469b-81b0-65b99a532a1a@d4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87k511kfen.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Jonathan Gardner  writes:

> On Aug 17, 5:20?pm, Ben Finney  wrote:
> > Instead, you should generate the map based on the standard library (in
> > this case, the underlying C standard library) locale database
> > :
>
> Does Windows support POSIX locales?

If it does not, it should :-) since it addresses the problem in one
standard place. It would be foolish for Python to re-implement that
functionality when presumably the operating system already knows how to
map between dates and locale-specific text representations.

You'll need to check the operating system documentation for what
alternative it might provide.

-- 
 \                ?I got fired from my job the other day. They said my |
  `\          personality was weird. ? That's okay, I have four more.? |
_o__)                                       ?Bug-Eyed Earl, _Red Meat_ |
Ben Finney


From af2012 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 22:49:31 2009
From: af2012 at gmail.com (Allan Fong)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 22:49:31 -0400
Subject: New to python
Message-ID: <62763f750908171949q2d9029ddo1df40b8850f945b6@mail.gmail.com>

Hi! I'm fairly new to Python.  I understand the basics basics but I'm been
trying to write a simple python code that will let me read input data from
my USB drive and write it in a text file and I am so lost.  Can anyone help
or direct me to some resources?  Thank you!
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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From rurpy at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 17 23:19:16 2009
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 20:19:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	
	<7f7c3e90-6026-411f-8b4a-829798819128@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
	<3fdfb992-058b-4017-b1b3-db3a9542b62e@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com> 
	<3d808272-6e56-4cf1-90df-8e5201df02df@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> 
	<13be5a11-612b-4fc5-a220-cc9aba2e4f8c@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <611687df-e755-4910-9042-5dab20de1a7e@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On 08/13/2009 08:46 AM, Paul Boddie wrote:
> On 13 Aug, 16:05, ru... at yahoo.com wrote:
>> All the above not withstanding, I too think a wiki is worth
>> trying.  But without doing a lot more than just "setting up
>> a wiki", I sadly believe even a python.org supported wiki
>> is doomed to failure.
>
> The ones on python.org seem to function reasonably well. I accept that
> they could be more aggressively edited, but this isn't done because
> there's a compromise between letting people contribute and keeping
> things moderately coherent, with the former being favoured. For other
> purposes, it would be quite acceptable to favour editorial control.

Yes, I agree.  I should have mentioned this as an exception
in my "wikis suck" diatribe.  Although it far better than
most wiki's I've seen, it is still pretty easy to find signs
of typical wiki-ness.  On the Documentation page my first
click was on AnnotableDocumentation: 404.  Second try,
DoumentationDiscussion: two very short paragraphs dated 2003.
After that I found some useful (in general though not what I
was looking for) information but not a good first impression.
(Well not exactly first, in fairness I have used other wiki
sections such as the Templating page and found them very
useful.)

> I won't argue that providing infrastructure solves a problem - that's
> precisely the kind of thing I was criticising when I noted that some
> people will readily criticise the choice of tools to do a job instead
> of focusing on the job that has to be done - and you need people who
> are reasonably competent editors, but Wiki solutions remove a lot of
> technical barriers. I'm not arguing for the flavour of Wiki which
> implies unfettered, anonymous access from everyone on the Internet,
> either: the kind of Wiki that detractors portray all Wiki solutions as
> being in order to further their super-special "it has to fit like a
> glove or it's totally unusable" software agenda. It's quite possible
> to have people with somewhat more privileges than others in order to
> keep the peace, and they don't all need to have an entrenched
> editorial interest: on the current python.org Wiki sites, most of the
> administrators don't have an active interest in most of the content,
> but they are able to exercise control when it's clear that some
> contributors aren't particularly interested in actually improving the
> content.
>
> As well as having an active community effort around the existing
> python.org Wiki sites, there are also people who are interested in
> improving these offerings. What worries me is that despite such
> activity and such interest, many people will continue to lament the
> lack of vitality (or whatever other metric) of the general python.org
> offering, whilst retaining a blind spot for the obvious contribution
> that the Wikis can make to such improvement efforts. I encourage
> people to use wiki.python.org a lot more, should they be looking to
> improve the wealth of information provided by the community.

Again, I agree with all of that.  But my main interest is
in improving the standard docs that are distributed with
Python and I question a wiki's role in that.

I took a look at the PHP docs last night which seem
pretty well done.  The User Comments looked rather as I
expected, there was useful info but most did not contain
documentation quality writing.  So if they are used as
a source for improving the docs, there clearly must be a
pretty large amount of editorial effort required, although
much of it is probably just filtering out comments that
don't provide any information appropriate for inclusion
in the docs.  They list 38 names under "User Note Maintainers"
(http://www.php.net/manual/en/preface.php)
Unfortunately I couldn't find a description of what these
people actually do.  I don't know how much work was involved
in removing the comments that are no longer there.

Again, I don't mean to sound like I am dissing the idea
of annotatable docs -- I think it is a good idea and will
provide useful supplementary information.

But I continue to question whether this will result in
improvements in the docs themselves (which is my main
interest) unless:

   1. The purpose of the wiki is clearly "marketed" as
soliciting suggestions, rewrites, etc destined ultimately
for inclusion in the docs.

   2. There is a dedicated core of doc-competent volunteers
focused on extracting, condensing and editing the user
comments and getting them into the docs, either directly
(if the volunteers are committers -- unlikely) or through
the existing tracker system.  And this still fails to
address the problems with the docs that aren't amenable
to fixing via the tracker system.  At least two of those
problems are:
1. Difficultly in making large organizational changes.
2. Prevalent opinion among doc approvers that the current
 excessively terse style is desirerable.


From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 23:22:05 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 20:22:05 -0700
Subject: Converting DD MM YYYY into YYYY-MM-DD?
In-Reply-To: <87k511kfen.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: 
	<91da9c54-a152-469b-81b0-65b99a532a1a@d4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<87k511kfen.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <200908172022.05517.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com>



----
My sample interactive session (locale.setlocale and all) was on a 32-bit Vista 
install of Python 2.5, so it works on that...

---
Rami Chowdhury
"A man with a watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches is never 
sure". -- Segal's Law
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)

On Monday 17 August 2009 19:46:24 Ben Finney wrote:
> Jonathan Gardner  writes:
> > On Aug 17, 5:20 pm, Ben Finney  wrote:
> > > Instead, you should generate the map based on the standard library (in
> > > this case, the underlying C standard library) locale database
> > >  > >#lo...>:
> >
> > Does Windows support POSIX locales?
>
> If it does not, it should :-) since it addresses the problem in one
> standard place. It would be foolish for Python to re-implement that
> functionality when presumably the operating system already knows how to
> map between dates and locale-specific text representations.
>
> You'll need to check the operating system documentation for what
> alternative it might provide.
>
> --
>  \                ?I got fired from my job the other day. They said my |
>   `\          personality was weird. ? That's okay, I have four more.? |
> _o__)                                       ?Bug-Eyed Earl, _Red Meat_ |
> Ben Finney



From clp2 at rebertia.com  Mon Aug 17 23:22:50 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 20:22:50 -0700
Subject: New to python
In-Reply-To: <62763f750908171949q2d9029ddo1df40b8850f945b6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <62763f750908171949q2d9029ddo1df40b8850f945b6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908172022ta35e948y8613e70463f28345@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 7:49 PM, Allan Fong wrote:
> Hi! I'm fairly new to Python.? I understand the basics basics but I'm been
> trying to write a simple python code that will let me read input data from
> my USB drive and write it in a text file and I am so lost.? Can anyone help
> or direct me to some resources?? Thank you!

Working with files: http://docs.python.org/library/stdtypes.html#file-objects

Reading+writing common file formats:
JSON: http://docs.python.org/library/json.html
CSV: http://docs.python.org/library/csv.html

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From roykty at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 23:45:37 2009
From: roykty at gmail.com (roykty at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 20:45:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Text lost when I write file
Message-ID: 

Dear All,

I try to write text into a file but some text lost when the size of
the text content is over 32K.
Is that relate to the buffer of the python and any setting can solve
this problem??.

Regards
Roy


From mensanator at aol.com  Mon Aug 17 23:49:29 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 20:49:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> 
	
	 
	<1fa1663b-a1cb-42d4-890b-0617b73e8816@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> 
	<9b8c48a3-b050-4a13-83f5-bc4185c62bdc@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 17, 8:04?pm, Carl Banks  wrote:
> On Aug 17, 5:40?pm, Mensanator  wrote:
>
> > On Aug 17, 4:06?pm, Carl Banks  wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 17, 10:03?am, Jean-Michel Pichavant 
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > I'm no English native, but I already heard women/men referring to a
> > > > group as "guys", no matter that group gender configuration. It's even
> > > > used for group composed exclusively of women. Moreover it looks like a
> > > > *very* friendly form, so there is really nothing to worry about it.
>
> > > I like how being very friendly means calling people after a guy who
> > > tried to blow up the English Parliament.
>
> > So?
>
> I also like how making an amusing pointless observation

Pointless, yes, but what was amusing abot the observation?

> gets people all huffy.

That wasn't huffy. You want to see huffy, make a wisecrack
comparing mothballs to Zyklon B, you'll REALLY get a load
of huffy replies.

>
> (BTW, lest anyone is not aware, that is the origin of the word "guy",

It most certainly is not. Maybe the origin of that
word's useage as a genric reference to a male, but
you didn't say that.

> this was not some random association.)

Penny for the guy?

>
> Carl Banks



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Aug 17 23:56:58 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 12:56:58 +0900
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
In-Reply-To: <20090817194155.8740.902674574.divmod.xquotient.69@localhost.localdomain>
References: 	<02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>			<4434e799-d907-49ca-93ee-a4be3276f9c2@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>	<3c0abe16-f05a-4c5f-9773-f813bc424f14@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>		
	<20090817194155.8740.902674574.divmod.xquotient.69@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: 

exarkun at twistedmatrix.com wrote:

> There's a lot of things in Python that I don't strictly *need*.  That 
> doesn't mean that they wouldn't be welcome if I could have them. Getting 
> rid of the range/xrange dichotomy would improve things.

The developers agreed a couple of years ago. Starting using 3.1 if you 
want this.

Since 'range' could refer to a user-defined object, rather than the 
builtin function, there is no way the interpreter should substitute 
'xrange'.

tjr



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Aug 18 00:06:50 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:06:50 +0900
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>	<269572f2-5968-479b-a7e6-d3354a769250@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<60bd3cab-1cab-4677-b640-8d126343615a@d9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>		
	
Message-ID: 

Nathan Keel wrote:

> idiot ... asshole 
> absolutely clueless ... idiot ...incredibly
> arrogant, yet incredibly clueless.

To me, such name-calling is as obnoxious as the intended target.

tjr




From clp2 at rebertia.com  Tue Aug 18 00:09:34 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 21:09:34 -0700
Subject: Text lost when I write file
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908172109m906fb7ape3d02a8a0c4bba53@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 8:45 PM, roykty at gmail.com wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> I try to write text into a file but some text lost when the size of
> the text content is over 32K.
> Is that relate to the buffer of the python and any setting can solve
> this problem??.

Please show us the code you're using.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Aug 18 00:23:26 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:23:26 +1000
Subject: Text lost when I write file
References: 
	
Message-ID: <87fxbpkawx.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Chris Rebert  writes:

> On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 8:45 PM, roykty at gmail.com wrote:
> > I try to write text into a file but some text lost when the size of
> > the text content is over 32K.
> > Is that relate to the buffer of the python and any setting can solve
> > this problem??.
>
> Please show us the code you're using.

Not the whole danged thing, of course; please show a minimal executable
example that demonstrates the behaviour.

-- 
 \           ?I do not believe in immortality of the individual, and I |
  `\        consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no |
_o__)  superhuman authority behind it.? ?Albert Einstein, letter, 1953 |
Ben Finney


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Aug 18 00:34:57 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 18 Aug 2009 04:34:57 GMT
Subject: Diversity in Python (was Re: Need cleanup advice for multiline 
	string)
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:31:51 -0700, Chris Rebert wrote:

>> Oh come on, one newbie making an off-color joke is not any sort of
>> reflection of the community as a whole.
>>
>> Anyway it's pretty naive to expect what is now a large community to
>> avoid bad eggs altogether. ?Price you pay for popularity.
> 
> Agreed on both points, but the lack of any reprimanding for making said
> inappropriate joke /would/ reflect badly on the community. Fortunately,
> said person's behavior has now been condemned by virtue of this thread;
> it's a step in the right direction.

Pardon me, but he has been slapped, a number of times. Check the original 
thread, you'll see that the OP was slapped for his stupid joke, then 
slapped again for another dismissive comment after the first reprimand.

You might argue he wasn't slapped *enough*, but that's another story. 
Personally, I thought he was either trolling for a reaction, or he was an 
old-fuddy-duddy (regardless of biological age), and either way reacting 
to his comments would just draw attention to something which is best 
dealt with with a cold-shoulder. Reinforce the good behaviour, shun the 
bad.

The comments were made a week ago -- why the sudden flurry of attention?



-- 
Steven


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 00:35:48 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 21:35:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> 
	
	 
	<1fa1663b-a1cb-42d4-890b-0617b73e8816@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> 
	<9b8c48a3-b050-4a13-83f5-bc4185c62bdc@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com> 
	 
	
Message-ID: <86bb893a-344a-4c7b-9fc6-67d9f42c7607@q14g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 17, 8:49?pm, Mensanator  wrote:
> On Aug 17, 8:04 pm, Carl Banks  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 17, 5:40 pm, Mensanator  wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 17, 4:06 pm, Carl Banks  wrote:
>
> > > > On Aug 17, 10:03 am, Jean-Michel Pichavant 
> > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > I'm no English native, but I already heard women/men referring to a
> > > > > group as "guys", no matter that group gender configuration. It's even
> > > > > used for group composed exclusively of women. Moreover it looks like a
> > > > > *very* friendly form, so there is really nothing to worry about it.
>
> > > > I like how being very friendly means calling people after a guy who
> > > > tried to blow up the English Parliament.
>
> > > So?
>
> > I also like how making an amusing pointless observation
>
> Pointless, yes, but what was amusing abot the observation?

The irony that in being friendly that you're calling someone a
terrorist.  I guess I shouldn't have expected you to get it.


> > gets people all huffy.
>
> That wasn't huffy. You want to see huffy, make a wisecrack
> comparing mothballs to Zyklon B, you'll REALLY get a load
> of huffy replies.
>
> > (BTW, lest anyone is not aware, that is the origin of the word "guy",
>
> It most certainly is not.

My dictionary disagrees with you.


> Maybe the origin of that
> word's useage as a genric reference to a male, but
> you didn't say that.
>
> > this was not some random association.)
>
> Penny for the guy?

Probably that phrase was part of the word's gradual common adoption.


Carl Banks


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Aug 18 00:37:33 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 18 Aug 2009 04:37:33 GMT
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<1fa1663b-a1cb-42d4-890b-0617b73e8816@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<9b8c48a3-b050-4a13-83f5-bc4185c62bdc@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 18:04:58 -0700, Carl Banks wrote:

> On Aug 17, 5:40?pm, Mensanator  wrote:
>> On Aug 17, 4:06?pm, Carl Banks  wrote:
>>
>> > On Aug 17, 10:03?am, Jean-Michel Pichavant 
>> > wrote:
>>
>> > > I'm no English native, but I already heard women/men referring to a
>> > > group as "guys", no matter that group gender configuration. It's
>> > > even used for group composed exclusively of women. Moreover it
>> > > looks like a *very* friendly form, so there is really nothing to
>> > > worry about it.
>>
>> > I like how being very friendly means calling people after a guy who
>> > tried to blow up the English Parliament.
>>
>> So?
> 
> I also like how making an amusing pointless observation gets people all
> huffy.
> 
> (BTW, lest anyone is not aware, that is the origin of the word "guy",
> this was not some random association.)


Yes, apparently the slang term "guy" for "man" (and these days, "person") 
was derived from Guy Fawkes:

http://www.worldwidewords.org/weirdwords/ww-guy1.htm


but the name itself is much older, and comes from Old German for "wood" 
or "warrior". In old French, it was "Gy", and in Italian (and presumably 
Dutch) it is "Guido".

http://www.thinkbabynames.com/meaning/1/Guy
http://www.blurtit.com/q113276.html


You'll also note that "guy" the noun has a number of meanings:

http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=guy


I don't know if there's any point to all this, but it's interesting, even 
if off-topic.




-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Aug 18 00:37:46 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 18 Aug 2009 04:37:46 GMT
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<269572f2-5968-479b-a7e6-d3354a769250@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<60bd3cab-1cab-4677-b640-8d126343615a@d9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<7xtz06cg7m.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 13:56:13 -0700, Paul Rubin wrote:

> Python 3.0 went overboard by actually removing the cmp argument and
> requiring use of the key argument.  That requires various kludges if the
> key is, say, a tree structure that has to be recursively compared with
> another such structure.  Maybe then can bring back cmp someday.

I'm having trouble understanding this, which may be my weakness rather 
than yours, but could you give an actual (simplified?) example I can run, 
where cmp would work but key wouldn't?



-- 
Steven


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Aug 18 00:45:39 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 17 Aug 2009 21:45:39 -0700
Subject: Diversity in Python (was Re: Need cleanup advice for multiline 
	string)
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
Steven D'Aprano   wrote:
>
>The comments were made a week ago -- why the sudden flurry of attention?

Mainly an opportunity to flog the new diversity list.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I saw `cout' being shifted "Hello world" times to the left and stopped
right there."  --Steve Gonedes


From naveen.garg at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 00:45:57 2009
From: naveen.garg at gmail.com (naveen)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 21:45:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: define class over 2 files
Message-ID: <7de550a5-64af-4f40-a7fc-e3c449d0dce9@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

Is it possible to split up a class definition over multiple files?


From contact at xavierho.com  Tue Aug 18 00:58:58 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:58:58 +1000
Subject: define class over 2 files
In-Reply-To: <7de550a5-64af-4f40-a7fc-e3c449d0dce9@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: <7de550a5-64af-4f40-a7fc-e3c449d0dce9@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908172158l760256rc703d7d87f04e509@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 2:45 PM, naveen  wrote:

> Is it possible to split up a class definition over multiple files?
> -


Answer in short, I don't think so.

 Now why would you want to do that?

There is another solution - have a main class for shared methods, and have
other classes [in different files, perhaps] inherit from it.

Cheers,
Xav
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From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Aug 18 01:07:14 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 15:07:14 +1000
Subject: Diversity in Python
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: <87bpmdk8vx.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Steven D'Aprano  writes:

> The comments were made a week ago -- why the sudden flurry of
> attention?

In my case, it's because I was ignoring the thread in which they were
made. The change of subject drew them to my attention, where I saw the
community response was (IMO) insufficient at the time, so I acted to
correct that.

Now that the community response is (IMO) more appropriate, there's no
further need to beat on those particular comments. Additional
transgressions could warrant additional responses, of course.

-- 
 \     ?I got some new underwear the other day. Well, new to me.? ?Emo |
  `\                                                           Philips |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From ariel.balter at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 01:27:57 2009
From: ariel.balter at gmail.com (abalter)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 22:27:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Data visualization in Python
References: 
Message-ID: <4121b29c-ebac-4f8f-b6af-e9789564cb4d@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 17, 12:10?pm, kj  wrote:
> I'm looking for a good Python package for visualizing
> scientific/statistical data. ?(FWIW, the OS I'm interested in is
> Mac OS X).
>
> The users of this package will be experimental biologists with
> little programming experience (but currently learning Python).
>
> (I normally visualize data using R or Mathematica, but I don't want
> to saddle these novices with the task of learning yet another
> language.)
>
> TIA!
>
> kynn

You might also look into the pythonxy superpackage, http://www.pythonxy.com/foreword.php
and http://enthought.com.


From indermeet.gandhi at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 01:28:17 2009
From: indermeet.gandhi at gmail.com (inder)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 22:28:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: XML parsing with python
References:  
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 17, 8:31?pm, John Posner  wrote:
> > Use the iterparse() function of the xml.etree.ElementTree package.
>
> >http://effbot.org/zone/element-iterparse.htm
> >http://codespeak.net/lxml/parsing.html#iterparse-and-iterwalk
>
> > Stefan
>
> iterparse() is too big a hammer for this purpose, IMO. How about this:
>
> ? from xml.etree.ElementTree import ElementTree
> ? tree = ElementTree(None, "myfile.xml")
> ? for elem in tree.findall('//book/title'):
> ? ? ? print elem.text
>
> -John

Thanks for the prompt reply .

I feel let me try using iterparse. Will it be slower compared to SAX
parsing ... ultimately I will have a huge xml file to parse ?


Another question , I will also need to validate my xml against xsd . I
would like to do this validation through the parsing tool  itself .

Does there exist an Unix utility which validates or even a python
library call would be fine  ?

Thanks in advance


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Aug 18 01:51:55 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 18 Aug 2009 05:51:55 GMT
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<1fa1663b-a1cb-42d4-890b-0617b73e8816@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<9b8c48a3-b050-4a13-83f5-bc4185c62bdc@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<86bb893a-344a-4c7b-9fc6-67d9f42c7607@q14g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 21:35:48 -0700, Carl Banks wrote:

>> > > > I like how being very friendly means calling people after a guy
>> > > > who tried to blow up the English Parliament.
>>
>> > > So?
>>
>> > I also like how making an amusing pointless observation
>>
>> Pointless, yes, but what was amusing abot the observation?
> 
> The irony that in being friendly that you're calling someone a
> terrorist.  


Please, the term is Freedom Fighter.



> I guess I shouldn't have expected you to get it.

Ouch! Nasty!


Is there something in the air today? People are short-tempered and 
grouchy all over the place... 



-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Aug 18 01:57:46 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 18 Aug 2009 05:57:46 GMT
Subject: define class over 2 files
References: <7de550a5-64af-4f40-a7fc-e3c449d0dce9@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 21:45:57 -0700, naveen wrote:

> Is it possible to split up a class definition over multiple files?

Not exactly, but you can do variations of this:


In file A.py, create:

class Parent:
    def method(self):
        return "Method"


In file B.py, do this:

import A
class Child(B.parent):
    def another_method(self):
        return "Another Method"


Now your class Child has two methods, method() and another_method().


Similarly, you can do this:

# File A.py

def function(x, y):
    return x+y  # or something more complicated


# File B.py

import A

def MyClass(object):
    def func(self, x, y):
        return A.function(x, y)





-- 
Steven


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Tue Aug 18 02:24:24 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 08:24:24 +0200
Subject: XML parsing with python
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <4a8a4918$0$32672$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>

inder wrote:
> On Aug 17, 8:31 pm, John Posner  wrote:
>>> Use the iterparse() function of the xml.etree.ElementTree package.
>>> http://effbot.org/zone/element-iterparse.htm
>>> http://codespeak.net/lxml/parsing.html#iterparse-and-iterwalk
>>> Stefan
>> iterparse() is too big a hammer for this purpose, IMO. How about this:
>>
>>   from xml.etree.ElementTree import ElementTree
>>   tree = ElementTree(None, "myfile.xml")
>>   for elem in tree.findall('//book/title'):
>>       print elem.text
>>
>> -John
> 
> Thanks for the prompt reply .
> 
> I feel let me try using iterparse. Will it be slower compared to SAX
> parsing ... ultimately I will have a huge xml file to parse ?

If you use the cElementTree module, it may even be faster.


> Another question , I will also need to validate my xml against xsd . I
> would like to do this validation through the parsing tool  itself .

In that case, you can use lxml instead of ElementTree.

http://codespeak.net/lxml/

Stefan


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Tue Aug 18 02:32:59 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 08:32:59 +0200
Subject: XML parsing with python
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <4a8a4b1c$0$32679$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>

John Posner wrote:
>> Use the iterparse() function of the xml.etree.ElementTree package.
> 
> iterparse() is too big a hammer for this purpose, IMO. How about this:
> 
>  from xml.etree.ElementTree import ElementTree
>  tree = ElementTree(None, "myfile.xml")
>  for elem in tree.findall('//book/title'):
>      print elem.text

Is that really so much better than an iterparse() version?

  from xml.etree.ElementTree import ElementTree

  for _, elem in ElementTree.iterparse("myfile.xml"):
      if elem.tag == 'book':
          print elem.findtext('title')
          elem.clear()

Stefan


From deets at nospam.web.de  Tue Aug 18 02:46:10 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 08:46:10 +0200
Subject: Strongly typed list
In-Reply-To: <7718922b-c72c-4a7e-90a3-098318063013@n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	<7718922b-c72c-4a7e-90a3-098318063013@n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7ev11jF1jj25dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

???? ??????? schrieb:
> Please could you lead me to a way or a good IDE that makes developing
> huge projects in python more easier than what i found.Now i am using
> eclips. Actually it is very hard to remember all my classes methods
> and attributes or copy and paste them each time.
> Thanks very much for your interest
> Hani Almousli.....

There are many really big projects written in Python - none of them with 
the aid of intelli-sense.

What python lacks in that respect due to it's dynamic typing, it more 
than compensates by being faster to develop and having to write much 
less code.

Diez


From sreejithemk at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 02:46:28 2009
From: sreejithemk at gmail.com (Sreejith K)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 23:46:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Changing Python Opcodes
Message-ID: <1e3f4885-f908-4a45-8f7a-1a45e9d91b27@n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I know this is not the best way to do it. But I have to do it at least
to make it *hard* to decompile the python bytecode.

I want to distribute a software written in Python without the source.
So I compiled Python from source changing some opcode values (Taking
care of HAVE_ARGUMENT value) and distributed with the .pyc files. It
did compile but when I'm installing additional python modules using
easy_install, the import fails with a segmentation fault. It worked in
a 32 bit Centos 5.2 but not on 64bit Centos 5.2. I am using python
2.5.4 source.

I changed only the Include/opcode.py source with my jumbled opcode
values. Was I correct here ? I would like to know what all changes to
be made as to successfully compile a custom python with different
opcode values ?


From nospam at nospam.com  Tue Aug 18 02:59:57 2009
From: nospam at nospam.com (Gilles Ganault)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 08:59:57 +0200
Subject: Converting DD MM YYYY into YYYY-MM-DD?
References: 
	
Message-ID: <3vjk85hapd0nuigp09qrihm6e7faliompd@4ax.com>

Thanks everyone for the help. This script is just a one-shot thingie
on my work host, not as a web script or anything professional.

On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:05:28 -0700 (PDT), Jonathan Gardner
 wrote:
>Unfortunately, there isn't any string to date parsers in the built-
>ins. Not to worry, though, since writing your own is easy, especially
>if you use regular expressions from the re module. I suggest using an
>RE such as:
>
>    r"(?P\d+)\s+(?P\w+)\s+(?P\d+)"

I've never seen regexes like this. I'm curious to know what those
mean:

r = Unicode?

(?P = ? means that it shouldn't be greedy, what about P?


From naveen.garg at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 03:04:56 2009
From: naveen.garg at gmail.com (naveen)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 00:04:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: define class over 2 files
References: <7de550a5-64af-4f40-a7fc-e3c449d0dce9@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <6a490ec8-3536-4508-afd4-90a5cf9317b5@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

> > Is it possible to split up a class definition over multiple files?
>
> Not exactly, but you can do variations of this:
... [subclass a class]
> Steven

Thanks Steven.
I guess I will just preprocess the script:

cat partA.py > class.py
cat partB >> class.py
python class.py




From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Aug 18 03:10:50 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:10:50 +1000
Subject: Converting DD MM YYYY into YYYY-MM-DD?
References: 
	
	<3vjk85hapd0nuigp09qrihm6e7faliompd@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <874os5k35x.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Gilles Ganault  writes:

> Thanks everyone for the help. This script is just a one-shot thingie
> on my work host, not as a web script or anything professional.
>
> On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:05:28 -0700 (PDT), Jonathan Gardner
>  wrote:
> >    r"(?P\d+)\s+(?P\w+)\s+(?P\d+)"
>
> I've never seen regexes like this. I'm curious to know what those
> mean:

Luckily, you have access to the documentation to find out.

> r = Unicode?



> (?P = ? means that it shouldn't be greedy, what about P?



-- 
 \      ?We reserve the right to serve refuse to anyone.? ?restaurant, |
  `\                                                             Japan |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Aug 18 03:13:17 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:13:17 +1000
Subject: define class over 2 files
References: <7de550a5-64af-4f40-a7fc-e3c449d0dce9@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6a490ec8-3536-4508-afd4-90a5cf9317b5@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87zl9xiohe.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

naveen  writes:

> I guess I will just preprocess the script:
> 
> cat partA.py > class.py
> cat partB >> class.py
> python class.py
> 

This, to me, is a programming smell; not necessarily bad, but an
indicator of bad practice. What is the problem you're trying to solve?
I'll wager there are better ways to address it.

-- 
 \           ?Laugh and the world laughs with you; snore and you sleep |
  `\                                                alone.? ?anonymous |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From deets at nospam.web.de  Tue Aug 18 03:19:31 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 09:19:31 +0200
Subject: Changing Python Opcodes
In-Reply-To: <1e3f4885-f908-4a45-8f7a-1a45e9d91b27@n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1e3f4885-f908-4a45-8f7a-1a45e9d91b27@n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7ev303F2ib9r1U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Sreejith K schrieb:
> Hi,
> 
> I know this is not the best way to do it. But I have to do it at least
> to make it *hard* to decompile the python bytecode.
> 
> I want to distribute a software written in Python without the source.
> So I compiled Python from source changing some opcode values (Taking
> care of HAVE_ARGUMENT value) and distributed with the .pyc files. It
> did compile but when I'm installing additional python modules using
> easy_install, the import fails with a segmentation fault. It worked in
> a 32 bit Centos 5.2 but not on 64bit Centos 5.2. I am using python
> 2.5.4 source.
> 
> I changed only the Include/opcode.py source with my jumbled opcode
> values. Was I correct here ? I would like to know what all changes to
> be made as to successfully compile a custom python with different
> opcode values ?

As you are the one who modified your Python, you are the one responsible 
for debugging that - noone else can.

Did you try installing the egg *without* pyc-files in there? Because 
naturally those shouldn't work. They shouldn't crash the interpreter 
either, but then again - you *did* modify it.

Diez


From sreejithemk at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 03:42:10 2009
From: sreejithemk at gmail.com (Sreejith K)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 00:42:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Changing Python Opcodes
References: <1e3f4885-f908-4a45-8f7a-1a45e9d91b27@n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<7ev303F2ib9r1U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <7cfe9433-37a6-456e-8a77-b0a8f17e5f23@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 18, 12:19?pm, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:

> Did you try installing the egg *without* pyc-files in there? Because
> naturally those shouldn't work. They shouldn't crash the interpreter
> either, but then again - you *did* modify it.

Hi Diez, thanks for the immediate reply :)

I installed the setuptools using ez_setup.py script. Then I used the
easy_install to install additional modules. When importing the
installed modules segfault occurs. The module I installed was
TurboGears.

Then I thought that it happened maybe because the easy_install script
is downloading eggs for original python (I'm not sure if it is what
easy_install is doing). So I also tried to install the module by
downloading all the dependencies (tar.gz files) and building it. Even
then segfault occured. Is there any problem in changing only the
opcodes.py file ? I did something horribly wrong here. Hope someone
will help...


From nospam at nospam.com  Tue Aug 18 03:49:41 2009
From: nospam at nospam.com (Gilles Ganault)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 09:49:41 +0200
Subject: Converting DD MM YYYY into YYYY-MM-DD?
References: 
	
	<3vjk85hapd0nuigp09qrihm6e7faliompd@4ax.com>
	<874os5k35x.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <10nk85le4ghbb22ogjuta10cneir6pcc8p@4ax.com>

On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:10:50 +1000, Ben Finney
 wrote:
>Luckily, you have access to the documentation to find out.

I never used groups before. Thanks for showing me.

At this point, the script is almost done, but the regex fails  if the
month contains accented characters (eg. "Ao?t", but fine if eg.
"Jan").

Adding a line to load the French locale doesn't help :-/

Any idea what I could do to keep the regex happy?

Thank you.

==============
import re
import apsw
import locale

#In case error due to accent in month name, but no soup 4 U
locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, 'FR')

connection=apsw.Connection("test.sqlite")
cursor=connection.cursor()

re_inscription =
re.compile(r"(?P\d+)\s+(?P\w+)\s+(?P\d+)")

sql = 'SELECT id,dateinscription,dateconnexion FROM mytable'
rows=list(cursor.execute(sql))
for row in rows:
	dateinscription = row[1]
	dateconnexion = row[2]
	
	#Prints OK
	print dateinscription
	
	m = re_inscription.search(dateinscription)
	if m:
		day = m.group("date")
		month = m.group("month")
		year = m.group("year")
		print "%s-%s-%s" % (year,month,day)
	else:
		print "No go"
==============


From weinhand at unileoben.ac.at  Tue Aug 18 03:59:20 2009
From: weinhand at unileoben.ac.at (Weinhandl Herbert)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 09:59:20 +0200
Subject: Data visualization in Python
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4a8a5f86$0$12126$3b214f66@aconews.univie.ac.at>

Am 2009-08-17 21:10, schrieb kj:
> I'm looking for a good Python package for visualizing
> scientific/statistical data.  (FWIW, the OS I'm interested in is
> Mac OS X).
>
> The users of this package will be experimental biologists with
> little programming experience (but currently learning Python).

SciDAVis is a free application for Scientific Data Analysis and Visualization.

     http://scidavis.sourceforge.net/


Veusz is a scientific plotting and graphing package written in Python.

     http://home.gna.org/veusz/


Open source data visualization and analysis for novice and experts. Data mining 
through visual programming or Python scripting. Extensions for bioinformatics 
and text mining. Comprehensive, flexible and fast.

     http://www.ailab.si/orange/

> (I normally visualize data using R or Mathematica, but I don't want
> to saddle these novices with the task of learning yet another
> language.)


hth

Herbert


From nitebirdz at sacredchaos.com  Tue Aug 18 04:07:32 2009
From: nitebirdz at sacredchaos.com (nitebirdz at sacredchaos.com)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:07:32 +0200
Subject: Using a Callback Function - ftplib
In-Reply-To: 
References: <76875cdd-30c4-4a3b-8a16-d0e2061765d7@v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<1euafoc8zeh0q.91hedjv5ueuh$.dlg@40tude.net>
	
Message-ID: <20090818080731.GA12396@sevilla.sacredchaos.com>

On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 11:10:25AM -0700, seldan24 wrote:
> 
> I didn't even notice the higher level methods.  I changed the
> retrieval line to:
> 
> ftp.nlst("testfile*.txt")
> 
> This works great.  The result is even captured in an array.  I really
> have no idea what the difference between a LIST and NLST is within
> FTP.  Never delved that deep into it.  I did notice that an NLST will
> return a specific FTP code if a file doesn't exist, whereas a LIST
> doesn't.  So, I ended up using NLST as that'll generate an
> ftplib.error_perm exception.  Based on if the job cares if a file is
> not available or not (some do, some don't), I'll either exit, or
> continue on with the file loop.
> 

The following thread from a NetBSD mailing list may help clarify this
issue:

http://mail-index.netbsd.org/netbsd-users/2001/01/30/0016.html


NLST returns a machine-readable list of names, while LIST returns a
human-readable list.  Hene the presence of the FTP code in the case of
NLST.  



From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 04:11:20 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 01:11:20 -0700
Subject: Converting DD MM YYYY into YYYY-MM-DD?
In-Reply-To: <10nk85le4ghbb22ogjuta10cneir6pcc8p@4ax.com>
References: 
	<874os5k35x.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<10nk85le4ghbb22ogjuta10cneir6pcc8p@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <200908180111.20975.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com>

Could you let me know which platform this is on (Windows, *nix)? It may be a 
locale encoding issue -- the locale.setlocale() function allows the second 
argument to be a tuple of (locale_code, encoding), as below:

locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, ('FR', 'UTF-8'))

Since this is for a one-shot (and presumably threading-agnostic) program, and 
a fairly trivially formatted date-string, I would suggest using 
datetime.strptime 
(http://docs.python.org/library/datetime.html#datetime.datetime.strptime) and 
not regular expressions (which IIRC have Issues with non-ASCII characters). 


----
Rami Chowdhury
"Ninety percent of everything is crap." -- Sturgeon's Law
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)

On Tuesday 18 August 2009 00:49:41 Gilles Ganault wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:10:50 +1000, Ben Finney
>
>  wrote:
> >Luckily, you have access to the documentation to find out.
>
> I never used groups before. Thanks for showing me.
>
> At this point, the script is almost done, but the regex fails  if the
> month contains accented characters (eg. "Ao?t", but fine if eg.
> "Jan").
>
> Adding a line to load the French locale doesn't help :-/
>
> Any idea what I could do to keep the regex happy?
>
> Thank you.
>
> ==============
> import re
> import apsw
> import locale
>
> #In case error due to accent in month name, but no soup 4 U
> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, 'FR')
>
> connection=apsw.Connection("test.sqlite")
> cursor=connection.cursor()
>
> re_inscription =
> re.compile(r"(?P\d+)\s+(?P\w+)\s+(?P\d+)")
>
> sql = 'SELECT id,dateinscription,dateconnexion FROM mytable'
> rows=list(cursor.execute(sql))
> for row in rows:
> 	dateinscription = row[1]
> 	dateconnexion = row[2]
>
> 	#Prints OK
> 	print dateinscription
>
> 	m = re_inscription.search(dateinscription)
> 	if m:
> 		day = m.group("date")
> 		month = m.group("month")
> 		year = m.group("year")
> 		print "%s-%s-%s" % (year,month,day)
> 	else:
> 		print "No go"
> ==============



From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Aug 18 04:12:06 2009
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:12:06 +0200
Subject: Mercurial migration: help needed
Message-ID: <4A8A6256.1030009@v.loewis.de>

This is a repost from two weeks ago. It didn't get much feedback last
time. I still keep trying, reposting to python-list also this time.

In this thread, I'd like to collect things that ought to be done
but where Dirkjan has indicated that he would prefer if somebody else
did it.

Item 1
------
The first item is build identification. If you want to work
on this, please either provide a patch (for trunk and/or py3k), or
(if you are a committer) create a subversion branch.

It seems that Barry and I agree that for the maintenance branches,
sys.subversion should be frozen, so we need actually two sets of
patches: one that removes sys.subversion entirely, and the other that
freezes the branch to the respective one, and freezes the subversion
revision to None.

The patch should consider what Dirkjan proposes as the branching
strategy: clones to separate 2.x and 3.x, as well as for features,
and branches with the clones for releases and maintenance (see the
PEP for details).

Anybody working on this should have good knowledge of the Python source
code, Mercurial, and either autoconf or Visual Studio (preferably both).

Item 2
------

The second item is line conversion hooks. Dj Gilcrease has posted a
solution which he considers a hack himself. Mark Hammond has also
volunteered, but it seems some volunteer needs to be "in charge",
keeping track of a proposed solution until everybody agrees that it
is a good solution. It may be that two solutions are necessary: a
short-term one, that operates as a hook and has limitations, and
a long-term one, that improves the hook system of Mercurial to
implement the proper functionality (which then might get shipped
with Mercurial in a cross-platform manner).

Regards,
Martin



From nospam at nospam.com  Tue Aug 18 04:19:53 2009
From: nospam at nospam.com (Gilles Ganault)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:19:53 +0200
Subject: Converting DD MM YYYY into YYYY-MM-DD?
References: 
	<874os5k35x.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<10nk85le4ghbb22ogjuta10cneir6pcc8p@4ax.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 01:11:20 -0700, Rami Chowdhury
 wrote:
>Could you let me know which platform this is on (Windows, *nix)? It may be a 
>locale encoding issue -- the locale.setlocale() function allows the second 
>argument to be a tuple of (locale_code, encoding), as below:
>
>locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, ('FR', 'UTF-8'))

It's on XP, and I'm using ActivePython 2.5.1.1.
http://www.activestate.com/activepython/

Python doesn't like the above:

#locale.Error: unsupported locale setting
locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, ('FR', 'UTF-8'))

Maybe it was introduced in more recent versions of Python?

>Since this is for a one-shot (and presumably threading-agnostic) program, and 
>a fairly trivially formatted date-string, I would suggest using 
>datetime.strptime 
>(http://docs.python.org/library/datetime.html#datetime.datetime.strptime) and 
>not regular expressions (which IIRC have Issues with non-ASCII characters). 

If the regex library can only handle basic latin characters, I'll wait
until a script I'm running is done, and I'll upgrade to the 2.6.2.2 to
see how it goes.

Thank you.


From dirkjan at ochtman.nl  Tue Aug 18 04:20:15 2009
From: dirkjan at ochtman.nl (Dirkjan Ochtman)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:20:15 +0200
Subject: [Python-Dev] Mercurial migration: help needed
In-Reply-To: <4A8A6256.1030009@v.loewis.de>
References: <4A8A6256.1030009@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 10:12, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote:
> In this thread, I'd like to collect things that ought to be done
> but where Dirkjan has indicated that he would prefer if somebody else
> did it.

I think the most important item here is currently the win32text stuff.
Mark Hammond said he would work on this; Mark, when do you have time
for this? Then I could set apart some time for it as well.

Have stalled a bit on the fine-grained branch processing, hope to move
that forward tomorrow.

Cheers,

Dirkjan


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Tue Aug 18 04:28:25 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 01:28:25 -0700
Subject: conversion of Python object to perl object
In-Reply-To: <229114.26317.qm@web7901.mail.in.yahoo.com>
References: <229114.26317.qm@web7901.mail.in.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908180128i48ac0d77sa04db33a05ab2c7@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 3:47 AM, srinivasan
srinivas wrote:
> Hi,
> I have to call a perl method which takes a hash as its?argument from a python module. Is there a way to convert python dictionary to perl hash ( not hash ref)?

How are you calling the Perl method from Python in the first place?

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From paul at boddie.org.uk  Tue Aug 18 04:34:58 2009
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 01:34:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	
	<7f7c3e90-6026-411f-8b4a-829798819128@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
	<3fdfb992-058b-4017-b1b3-db3a9542b62e@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com> 
	<3d808272-6e56-4cf1-90df-8e5201df02df@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> 
	<13be5a11-612b-4fc5-a220-cc9aba2e4f8c@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> 
	<611687df-e755-4910-9042-5dab20de1a7e@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2f09b257-98c1-432c-8643-3bf1c5bdc875@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On 18 Aug, 05:19, ru... at yahoo.com wrote:
>
> Yes, I agree. ?I should have mentioned this as an exception
> in my "wikis suck" diatribe. ?Although it far better than
> most wiki's I've seen, it is still pretty easy to find signs
> of typical wiki-ness. ?On the Documentation page my first
> click was on AnnotableDocumentation: 404.

Well, "Annotatable Documentation" is an external link. All we can do
in such cases is to tidy such stuff up, mark it as invalid, or remove
it.

>?Second try, DoumentationDiscussion: two very short paragraphs dated 2003.

Right. There are parts of the Wiki which were used actively in the
past but which have fallen into disrepair. Some pages lack focus -
they've been created according to "old school" Wiki conventions which
I regard as being somewhat obsolete (just creating new pages all over
the place to cover whatever happens to be in the writer's head at the
time) - and every now and again, I attempt to rationalise these pages
and focus their content.

> After that I found some useful (in general though not what I
> was looking for) information but not a good first impression.
> (Well not exactly first, in fairness I have used other wiki
> sections such as the Templating page and found them very
> useful.)

It needs work, of course.

[...]

> I took a look at the PHP docs last night which seem
> pretty well done. ?The User Comments looked rather as I
> expected, there was useful info but most did not contain
> documentation quality writing. ?So if they are used as
> a source for improving the docs, there clearly must be a
> pretty large amount of editorial effort required, although
> much of it is probably just filtering out comments that
> don't provide any information appropriate for inclusion
> in the docs. ?They list 38 names under "User Note Maintainers"
> (http://www.php.net/manual/en/preface.php)
> Unfortunately I couldn't find a description of what these
> people actually do. ?I don't know how much work was involved
> in removing the comments that are no longer there.

Indeed. There's always the editorial bottleneck unless it's a total
free-for-all situation. I've remarked before about how user comments
don't necessarily add significantly to documentation, which is an
assertion that some people make, and there definitely does need to be
a process of integrating the best feedback into the main work. The
crucial difference between a Wiki and an annotation system is the
combination of the contribution and editorial aspects in a Wiki - you
edit the actual work, and people can decide whether it's a good edit
or not - in contrast to their separation in most annotation systems.
In some cases, strict annotation systems are probably better: the
GPLv3 annotation system was oriented towards discussion of the text,
and that's not so effectively done in a Wiki.

> Again, I don't mean to sound like I am dissing the idea
> of annotatable docs -- I think it is a good idea and will
> provide useful supplementary information.

Where there's a separation of annotation and editing, I worry about
the editorial bottleneck. I also worry about "handprint" edits more
generally, where people just want to leave their touch on the work
without actually contributing anything of substance.

> But I continue to question whether this will result in
> improvements in the docs themselves (which is my main
> interest) unless:
>
> ? ?1. The purpose of the wiki is clearly "marketed" as
> soliciting suggestions, rewrites, etc destined ultimately
> for inclusion in the docs.

I'm happy to see tangential work rather than stuff which fills exactly
the same role as the current documentation. For example, the Python
module of the week articles (PyMOTW, [1]) are exactly the kind of
tangential work that could be encouraged, even though that is not so
much a collaborative work itself.

Paul

[1] http://www.doughellmann.com/PyMOTW/


From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 04:42:26 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 01:42:26 -0700
Subject: Converting DD MM YYYY into YYYY-MM-DD?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <200908180142.26979.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com>

> Python doesn't like the above:
>
> #locale.Error: unsupported locale setting
> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, ('FR', 'UTF-8'))
>
> Maybe it was introduced in more recent versions of Python?
Hmm, that's odd. According to the docs 
(http://docs.python.org/library/locale.html#locale.setlocale) it's been that 
way since 2.0, but I've just checked this on my Windows (Vista) machine and 
you're right, it returns an error. 

This worked for me on 32-bit Vista:

locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, 'FR')

It uses Windows-1252 for the encoding, but that seems to deal with the 
circonflexe in 'Ao?t' just fine, so it should work for this purpose.


----
Rami Chowdhury
"Never attributed to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity." -- 
Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)

On Tuesday 18 August 2009 01:19:53 Gilles Ganault wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 01:11:20 -0700, Rami Chowdhury
>
>  wrote:
> >Could you let me know which platform this is on (Windows, *nix)? It may be
> > a locale encoding issue -- the locale.setlocale() function allows the
> > second argument to be a tuple of (locale_code, encoding), as below:
> >
> >locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, ('FR', 'UTF-8'))
>
> It's on XP, and I'm using ActivePython 2.5.1.1.
> http://www.activestate.com/activepython/
>
> Python doesn't like the above:
>
> #locale.Error: unsupported locale setting
> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, ('FR', 'UTF-8'))
>
> Maybe it was introduced in more recent versions of Python?
>
> >Since this is for a one-shot (and presumably threading-agnostic) program,
> > and a fairly trivially formatted date-string, I would suggest using
> >datetime.strptime
> >(http://docs.python.org/library/datetime.html#datetime.datetime.strptime)
> > and not regular expressions (which IIRC have Issues with non-ASCII
> > characters).
>
> If the regex library can only handle basic latin characters, I'll wait
> until a script I'm running is done, and I'll upgrade to the 2.6.2.2 to
> see how it goes.
>
> Thank you.



From nospam at nospam.com  Tue Aug 18 04:52:41 2009
From: nospam at nospam.com (Gilles Ganault)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:52:41 +0200
Subject: Converting DD MM YYYY into YYYY-MM-DD?
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

I find it odd that the regex library can't handle European characters
:-/


From indermeet.gandhi at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 04:55:35 2009
From: indermeet.gandhi at gmail.com (inder)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 01:55:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: XML parsing with python
References:  
	
	
	<4a8a4918$0$32672$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <25838ee3-897a-4979-bd08-c2d0287d02c0@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 18, 11:24?am, Stefan Behnel  wrote:
> inder wrote:
> > On Aug 17, 8:31 pm, John Posner  wrote:
> >>> Use the iterparse() function of the xml.etree.ElementTree package.
> >>>http://effbot.org/zone/element-iterparse.htm
> >>>http://codespeak.net/lxml/parsing.html#iterparse-and-iterwalk
> >>> Stefan
> >> iterparse() is too big a hammer for this purpose, IMO. How about this:
>
> >> ? from xml.etree.ElementTree import ElementTree
> >> ? tree = ElementTree(None, "myfile.xml")
> >> ? for elem in tree.findall('//book/title'):
> >> ? ? ? print elem.text
>
> >> -John
>
> > Thanks for the prompt reply .
>
> > I feel let me try using iterparse. Will it be slower compared to SAX
> > parsing ... ultimately I will have a huge xml file to parse ?
>
> If you use the cElementTree module, it may even be faster.
>
> > Another question , I will also need to validate my xml against xsd . I
> > would like to do this validation through the parsing tool ?itself .
>
> In that case, you can use lxml instead of ElementTree.
>
> http://codespeak.net/lxml/
>
> Stefan

Hi ,

Is lxml part of standard python package ? I am having python 2.5 .

I might not be able to use any additional package other than the
standard python . Could you please suggest something part of standard
python package ?

Thanks


From deets at nospam.web.de  Tue Aug 18 04:57:58 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:57:58 +0200
Subject: Changing Python Opcodes
References: <1e3f4885-f908-4a45-8f7a-1a45e9d91b27@n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<7ev303F2ib9r1U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<7cfe9433-37a6-456e-8a77-b0a8f17e5f23@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7ev8omF2ffh1jU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Sreejith K wrote:

> On Aug 18, 12:19?pm, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
> 
>> Did you try installing the egg *without* pyc-files in there? Because
>> naturally those shouldn't work. They shouldn't crash the interpreter
>> either, but then again - you *did* modify it.
> 
> Hi Diez, thanks for the immediate reply :)
> 
> I installed the setuptools using ez_setup.py script. Then I used the
> easy_install to install additional modules. When importing the
> installed modules segfault occurs. The module I installed was
> TurboGears.
> 
> Then I thought that it happened maybe because the easy_install script
> is downloading eggs for original python (I'm not sure if it is what
> easy_install is doing).

Yep, that's actually it's main purpose.

> So I also tried to install the module by 
> downloading all the dependencies (tar.gz files) and building it. Even
> then segfault occured. Is there any problem in changing only the
> opcodes.py file ? I did something horribly wrong here. Hope someone
> will help...

I don't know. You modified this yourself. If I were in your situation, what
I would have done is to 

 - modify the version-information stored in my PYC-files so that I'm sure I
don't accidentally load any "normal" PYC-files. Python does check that
through some magic number, make sure you use your own.

 - fire up the debugger and see where the segfault actually happens. Nobody
can be helping you there, because it's *your* code, not Python anymore. And
giving others access to it defies somewhat the purpose of the whole
exercise....

Diez


From nospam at nospam.com  Tue Aug 18 05:07:21 2009
From: nospam at nospam.com (Gilles Ganault)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:07:21 +0200
Subject: Converting DD MM YYYY into YYYY-MM-DD?
References: 
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:52:41 +0200, Gilles Ganault 
wrote:

>I find it odd that the regex library can't handle European characters
>:-/

Ha, found it! :-)

http://www.regular-expressions.info/python.html

=========
# -*- coding: latin-1 -*-

import locale
import re

locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, 'FR')

re_inscription =
re.compile(r"(?P\d+)\s+(?P\w+)\s+(?P\d+)",re.LOCALE)

dateinscription = "11 Ao?t 2008"
	
m = re_inscription.search(dateinscription)
if m:
		day = m.group("date")
		month = m.group("month")
		year = m.group("year")
		print "%s-%s-%s" % (year,month,day)
else:
	print "Yuck"
=========

Thanks everyone!


From http  Tue Aug 18 05:15:51 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 18 Aug 2009 02:15:51 -0700
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	
	<7f7c3e90-6026-411f-8b4a-829798819128@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
	<3fdfb992-058b-4017-b1b3-db3a9542b62e@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<3d808272-6e56-4cf1-90df-8e5201df02df@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<13be5a11-612b-4fc5-a220-cc9aba2e4f8c@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<611687df-e755-4910-9042-5dab20de1a7e@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xiqgl7a9k.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

rurpy at yahoo.com writes:
> I took a look at the PHP docs last night which seem pretty well
> done.  The User Comments looked rather as I expected, there was
> useful info but most did not contain documentation quality writing.
> So if they are used as a source for improving the docs, there
> clearly must be a pretty large amount of editorial effort required,
> although much of it is probably just filtering out comments that
> don't provide any information appropriate for inclusion in the docs.

The comments section contains questions from users and answers to
those questions from other users.  What you may be missing is the part
of the comments useful to the doc maintainers is primarily the user
questions, rather than the user answers.  The questions show the doc
writer exactly what parts of the official doc are unclear or
incomplete.  The user-written answers may be wrong or generally crap,
but the doc writer now knows what to do to improve the doc.  That's
why it's such a win to have the comments on the same page as the
official docs.

See also the user-commented http://book.realworldhaskell.org/read/
where the comments really helped clarify the finished (dead tree) text.


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Tue Aug 18 05:26:02 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:26:02 +0200
Subject: XML parsing with python
In-Reply-To: <25838ee3-897a-4979-bd08-c2d0287d02c0@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	
	<4a8a4918$0$32672$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
	<25838ee3-897a-4979-bd08-c2d0287d02c0@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a8a73aa$0$32676$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>

inder wrote:
> Is lxml part of standard python package ? I am having python 2.5 .

No, that's why I suggested ElementTree first.


> I might not be able to use any additional package other than the
> standard python . Could you please suggest something part of standard
> python package ?

No, there isn't any XMLSchema support in the stdlib.

However, you may still be able to use lxml locally for development and with
validation enabled, and switch to non-validating ElementTree on
distribution/pre-prod-testing/whatever. Just use a conditional import and
write a bit of setup code.

Stefan


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Tue Aug 18 05:49:12 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:49:12 +0200
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
In-Reply-To: <1fa1663b-a1cb-42d4-890b-0617b73e8816@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	<1fa1663b-a1cb-42d4-890b-0617b73e8816@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <200908181149.12382.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Monday 17 August 2009 23:06:04 Carl Banks wrote:
> On Aug 17, 10:03?am, Jean-Michel Pichavant 
>
> wrote:
> > I'm no English native, but I already heard women/men referring to a
> > group as "guys", no matter that group gender configuration. It's even
> > used for group composed exclusively of women. Moreover it looks like a
> > *very* friendly form, so there is really nothing to worry about it.
>
> I like how being very friendly means calling people after a guy who
> tried to blow up the English Parliament.

+1 QOTW  - Hendrik





From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Aug 18 05:55:57 2009
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:55:57 +0200
Subject: Changing Python Opcodes
References: <1e3f4885-f908-4a45-8f7a-1a45e9d91b27@n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<7ev303F2ib9r1U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<7cfe9433-37a6-456e-8a77-b0a8f17e5f23@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<7ev8omF2ffh1jU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: 

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

> Sreejith K wrote:

>> So I compiled Python from source changing some opcode values

>  Nobody
> can be helping you there, because it's *your* code, not Python anymore.
> And giving others access to it defies somewhat the purpose of the whole
> exercise....

...and everyone with the expertise to decompile your application and do 
something useful with the result will also be able to find this thread. 
Basically you're trying the security through obscurity stunt without the 
obscurity...

Peter



From nitebirdz at sacredchaos.com  Tue Aug 18 06:02:44 2009
From: nitebirdz at sacredchaos.com (Nitebirdz)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 12:02:44 +0200
Subject: Using a Callback Function - ftplib
In-Reply-To: 
References: <76875cdd-30c4-4a3b-8a16-d0e2061765d7@v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<1euafoc8zeh0q.91hedjv5ueuh$.dlg@40tude.net>
	
Message-ID: <20090818100243.GB16443@sevilla.sacredchaos.com>

On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 11:10:25AM -0700, seldan24 wrote:
> 
> I didn't even notice the higher level methods.  I changed the
> retrieval line to:
> 
> ftp.nlst("testfile*.txt")
> 
> This works great.  The result is even captured in an array.  I really
> have no idea what the difference between a LIST and NLST is within
> FTP.  Never delved that deep into it.  I did notice that an NLST will
> return a specific FTP code if a file doesn't exist, whereas a LIST
> doesn't.  So, I ended up using NLST as that'll generate an
> ftplib.error_perm exception.  Based on if the job cares if a file is
> not available or not (some do, some don't), I'll either exit, or
> continue on with the file loop.
> 

The following thread from a NetBSD mailing list may help clarify this
issue:

http://mail-index.netbsd.org/netbsd-users/2001/01/30/0016.html


NLST returns a machine-readable list of names, while LIST returns a
human-readable list.  Hene the presence of the FTP code in the case of
NLST.  



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Aug 18 06:03:47 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 20:03:47 +1000
Subject: Converting DD MM YYYY into YYYY-MM-DD?
References: 
	
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: <87iqgligl8.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Gilles Ganault  writes:

> dateinscription = "11 Ao?t 2008"

For any text string that's not ASCII, you should specify it as Unicode.
(Actually, you should specify text as Unicode anyway.) For a literal
text string:

    dateinscription = u"11 Ao?t 2008"

If you're using exclusively Python 3, you will get Unicode text literals
by default; but I assume you're using Python 2 based on existing
discussion.

The principles of handling text in Python: Get it to internal Unicode
objects as soon as possible, handle it as Unicode for as long as
possible, and only encode it to some byte stream for output as late as
possible.

-- 
 \       ?When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold to the masses |
  `\    over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and |
_o__)                    its speaker a raving lunatic.? ?Dresden James |
Ben Finney


From sleepy at cabbage.co.uk  Tue Aug 18 06:05:18 2009
From: sleepy at cabbage.co.uk (Sleepy Cabbage)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:05:18 GMT
Subject: urlopen errors in script
Message-ID: 

I'm scripting a superkaramba theme using python and have intgrated output
from amarok. I have also would like to show the artist and song title from
a radio stream i've added to my playlist.

If I open a python console and add the following:

>>>import urllib2
>>>from urllib2 import urlopen

>>>nowplaying = str.split(urlopen('http://www.hearteastmids.co.uk//
jsfiles/NowPlayingDisplay.aspx?f=http%3A%2F%2Frope.ccap.fimc.net%2Ffeeds%
2Fnowplaying%2FGlobal%2FHeart_Network%2FHeart_East_Midlands%
2F6854.xml&l=6854&tzc=8&at=HeartEastMids').read(),'>')

>>>print test[4][:-3]

this works and displays the artist and song title.

However, when I add this to my script I get the following errors:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

superkaramba(28855) ThemesDlg::addThemeToList: addThemeToList() file:  "/
home/sleepy/dev/MyTheme/
MyTheme.theme"
superkaramba(28855) Karamba::startKaramba: Loading script module:
"MyTheme.py"
superkaramba(28855) KarambaInterface::initInterpreter: Using  "python"
script:  "/home/sleepy/dev/MyTheme/
MyTheme.py"
Kross: "Loading the interpreter library for python"
Kross: "Successfully loaded Interpreter instance from library."
Kross:
"PythonScript::Constructor."
Kross:
"PythonScript::execute"
Kross:
"PythonInterpreter::extractException:
  File "/home/sleepy/dev/MyTheme/MyTheme.py", line 4, in

    #this import statement allows access to the karamba
functions

  File "/home/sleepy/dev/MyTheme/MyTheme.py", line 9, in 
    import urllib2

  File "", line 18, in _import

  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/urllib2.py", line 92, in 
    import httplib

  File "", line 18, in _import

  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/httplib.py", line 1054, in 
    import ssl

  File "", line 18, in _import

  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/ssl.py", line 81, in 
    class SSLSocket (socket):
"
Kross: "Error error=Error when calling the metaclass bases
    module.__init__() takes at most 2 arguments (3 given) lineno=81 trace=
  File "/home/sleepy/dev/MyTheme/MyTheme.py", line 4, in

    #this import statement allows access to the karamba functions

  File "/home/sleepy/dev/MyTheme/MyTheme.py", line 9, in 
    import urllib2

  File "", line 18, in _import

  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/urllib2.py", line 92, in 
    import httplib

  File "", line 18, in _import

  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/httplib.py", line 1054, in 
    import ssl

  File "", line 18, in _import

  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/ssl.py", line 81, in 
    class SSLSocket (socket):
"
TypeError: Error when calling the metaclass bases
    module.__init__() takes at most 2 arguments (3 given)
Error in sys.excepthook:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/apport_python_hook.py", line 38,
in apport_excepthook
    from apport.packaging_impl import impl as
packaging
  File "", line 18, in
_import
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/apport/__init__.py", line 1, in

    from apport.report import
Report
  File "", line 18, in
_import
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/apport/report.py", line 21, in

    import
fileutils
  File "", line 18, in
_import
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/apport/fileutils.py", line 16,
in 
    from packaging_impl import impl as
packaging
  File "", line 18, in
_import
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/apport/packaging_impl.py", line
18, in 
    import
apt
  File "", line 18, in
_import
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/apt/__init__.py", line 7, in

    from apt.package import
Package
  File "", line 18, in
_import
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/apt/package.py", line 23, in

    import
httplib
  File "", line 18, in
_import
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/httplib.py", line 1054, in

    import
ssl
  File "", line 18, in _import
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/ssl.py", line 81, in 
    class SSLSocket (socket):
TypeError: Error when calling the metaclass bases
    module.__init__() takes at most 2 arguments (3 given)

Original exception was:
TypeError: Error when calling the metaclass bases
    module.__init__() takes at most 2 arguments (3 given)
Kross: "PythonScript::Destructor."

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks in advance



From sleepy at cabbage.co.uk  Tue Aug 18 06:07:41 2009
From: sleepy at cabbage.co.uk (Sleepy Cabbage)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:07:41 GMT
Subject: urlopen errors in script
Message-ID: 

I'm scripting a superkaramba theme using python and have intgrated output
from amarok. I have also would like to show the artist and song title from
a radio stream i've added to my playlist.

If I open a python console and add the following:

">>>import urllib2"
">>>from urllib2 import urlopen"

">>>nowplaying = str.split(urlopen('http://www.hearteastmids.co.uk//
jsfiles/NowPlayingDisplay.aspx?f=http%3A%2F%2Frope.ccap.fimc.net%2Ffeeds%
2Fnowplaying%2FGlobal%2FHeart_Network%2FHeart_East_Midlands%
2F6854.xml&l=6854&tzc=8&at=HeartEastMids').read(),'>')"

">>>print test[4][:-3]"

this works and displays the artist and song title.

However, when I add this to my script I get the following errors:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

superkaramba(28855) ThemesDlg::addThemeToList: addThemeToList() file:  "/
home/sleepy/dev/MyTheme/
MyTheme.theme"
superkaramba(28855) Karamba::startKaramba: Loading script module:
"MyTheme.py"
superkaramba(28855) KarambaInterface::initInterpreter: Using  "python"
script:  "/home/sleepy/dev/MyTheme/
MyTheme.py"
Kross: "Loading the interpreter library for python"
Kross: "Successfully loaded Interpreter instance from library."
Kross:
"PythonScript::Constructor."
Kross:
"PythonScript::execute"
Kross:
"PythonInterpreter::extractException:
  File "/home/sleepy/dev/MyTheme/MyTheme.py", line 4, in

    #this import statement allows access to the karamba
functions

  File "/home/sleepy/dev/MyTheme/MyTheme.py", line 9, in 
    import urllib2

  File "", line 18, in _import

  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/urllib2.py", line 92, in 
    import httplib

  File "", line 18, in _import

  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/httplib.py", line 1054, in 
    import ssl

  File "", line 18, in _import

  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/ssl.py", line 81, in 
    class SSLSocket (socket):
"
Kross: "Error error=Error when calling the metaclass bases
    module.__init__() takes at most 2 arguments (3 given) lineno=81 trace=
  File "/home/sleepy/dev/MyTheme/MyTheme.py", line 4, in

    #this import statement allows access to the karamba functions

  File "/home/sleepy/dev/MyTheme/MyTheme.py", line 9, in 
    import urllib2

  File "", line 18, in _import

  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/urllib2.py", line 92, in 
    import httplib

  File "", line 18, in _import

  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/httplib.py", line 1054, in 
    import ssl

  File "", line 18, in _import

  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/ssl.py", line 81, in 
    class SSLSocket (socket):
"
TypeError: Error when calling the metaclass bases
    module.__init__() takes at most 2 arguments (3 given)
Error in sys.excepthook:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/apport_python_hook.py", line 38,
in apport_excepthook
    from apport.packaging_impl import impl as
packaging
  File "", line 18, in
_import
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/apport/__init__.py", line 1, in

    from apport.report import
Report
  File "", line 18, in
_import
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/apport/report.py", line 21, in

    import
fileutils
  File "", line 18, in
_import
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/apport/fileutils.py", line 16,
in 
    from packaging_impl import impl as
packaging
  File "", line 18, in
_import
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/apport/packaging_impl.py", line
18, in 
    import
apt
  File "", line 18, in
_import
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/apt/__init__.py", line 7, in

    from apt.package import
Package
  File "", line 18, in
_import
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/apt/package.py", line 23, in

    import
httplib
  File "", line 18, in
_import
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/httplib.py", line 1054, in

    import
ssl
  File "", line 18, in _import
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/ssl.py", line 81, in 
    class SSLSocket (socket):
TypeError: Error when calling the metaclass bases
    module.__init__() takes at most 2 arguments (3 given)

Original exception was:
TypeError: Error when calling the metaclass bases
    module.__init__() takes at most 2 arguments (3 given)
Kross: "PythonScript::Destructor."

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks in advance



From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Tue Aug 18 06:12:14 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 12:12:14 +0200
Subject: Diversity in Python (was Re: Need cleanup advice for multiline
	string)
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <200908181212.14882.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Tuesday 18 August 2009 06:45:39 Aahz wrote:
> In article ,
>
> Steven D'Aprano   wrote:
> >The comments were made a week ago -- why the sudden flurry of attention?
>
> Mainly an opportunity to flog the new diversity list.

Here my English fails me - flog as in "whip", or flog as in "sell"?

- Hendrik


From nospam at nospam.com  Tue Aug 18 06:21:07 2009
From: nospam at nospam.com (Gilles Ganault)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 12:21:07 +0200
Subject: Converting DD MM YYYY into YYYY-MM-DD?
References: 
	
	
	
	
	
	<87iqgligl8.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 20:03:47 +1000, Ben Finney
 wrote:
>The principles of handling text in Python: Get it to internal Unicode
>objects as soon as possible, handle it as Unicode for as long as
>possible, and only encode it to some byte stream for output as late as
>possible.

Thanks much for the tip. I'll keep that in mind when I have strings
with accents.


From marduk at letterboxes.org  Tue Aug 18 06:26:02 2009
From: marduk at letterboxes.org (Albert Hopkins)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 06:26:02 -0400
Subject: Strongly typed list
In-Reply-To: <7ev11jF1jj25dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: 
	
	<7718922b-c72c-4a7e-90a3-098318063013@n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<7ev11jF1jj25dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1250591162.10348.3.camel@blackwidow.nbk>

On Tue, 2009-08-18 at 08:46 +0200, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
  > Please could you lead me to a way or a good IDE that makes developing
> > huge projects in python more easier than what i found.Now i am using
> > eclips. Actually it is very hard to remember all my classes methods
> > and attributes or copy and paste them each time.
> > Thanks very much for your interest
> > Hani Almousli.....
> 
> There are many really big projects written in Python - none of them with 
> the aid of intelli-sense.
> 
> What python lacks in that respect due to it's dynamic typing, it more 
> than compensates by being faster to develop and having to write much 
> less code.

But this class can do *anything*!  It .slice()s.. It .dice()s...


... sorry, couldn't resist ;-)

-a




From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Aug 18 06:37:47 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 20:37:47 +1000
Subject: Converting DD MM YYYY into YYYY-MM-DD?
References: 
	
	
	
	
	
	<87iqgligl8.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
Message-ID: <87ab1xif0k.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Gilles Ganault  writes:

> On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 20:03:47 +1000, Ben Finney
>  wrote:
> >The principles of handling text in Python: Get it to internal Unicode
> >objects as soon as possible, handle it as Unicode for as long as
> >possible, and only encode it to some byte stream for output as late as
> >possible.
>
> Thanks much for the tip. I'll keep that in mind when I have strings
> with accents.

Again, note that these recommendations hold for *any* text in Python,
with or without accents; once you accept that text is best handled in
Unicode, there's little sense in making an exception for the limited
subset that happens to be representable in ASCII.

-- 
 \        ?The Bermuda Triangle got tired of warm weather. It moved to |
  `\               Alaska. Now Santa Claus is missing.? ?Steven Wright |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From rui.maciel at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 06:38:30 2009
From: rui.maciel at gmail.com (Rui Maciel)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:38:30 +0100
Subject: A Exhibition Of Tech Geekers Incompetence: Emacs whitespace-mode
References: <61ef4451-d6b6-493b-b4a0-1822a901ca8d@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a8a84a3$0$27142$a729d347@news.telepac.pt>

Xah Lee wrote:

> This feature is important in practical ways. For example, when you
> work with ?tab separated line? files (CSV) that's a common format for
> importing/exporting address books or spreadsheets.

CSV stands for "comma separated values" and the import facilities of any spreadsheet application lets the 
user define the field separator character.


Rui Maciel


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Aug 18 06:38:36 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 20:38:36 +1000
Subject: Diversity in Python
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: <8763cliez7.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Hendrik van Rooyen  writes:

> On Tuesday 18 August 2009 06:45:39 Aahz wrote:
> > Mainly an opportunity to flog the new diversity list.
>
> Here my English fails me - flog as in "whip", or flog as in "sell"?

Yes :-)

-- 
 \       ?The most common of all follies is to believe passionately in |
  `\    the palpably not true. It is the chief occupation of mankind.? |
_o__)                                                ?Henry L. Mencken |
Ben Finney


From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Aug 18 07:21:59 2009
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:21:59 +0200
Subject: urlopen errors in script
References: 
Message-ID: 

Sleepy Cabbage wrote:

> I'm scripting a superkaramba theme using python and have intgrated output
> from amarok. I have also would like to show the artist and song title from
> a radio stream i've added to my playlist.
> 
> If I open a python console and add the following:
> 
> ">>>import urllib2"
> ">>>from urllib2 import urlopen"
> 
> ">>>nowplaying = str.split(urlopen('http://www.hearteastmids.co.uk//
> jsfiles/NowPlayingDisplay.aspx?f=http%3A%2F%2Frope.ccap.fimc.net%2Ffeeds%
> 2Fnowplaying%2FGlobal%2FHeart_Network%2FHeart_East_Midlands%
> 2F6854.xml&l=6854&tzc=8&at=HeartEastMids').read(),'>')"
> 
> ">>>print test[4][:-3]"
> 
> this works and displays the artist and song title.
> 
> However, when I add this to my script I get the following errors:

Please give a minimal version of your script that produces the error, not 
some arbitrary excerpt that you ran successfully on the command line.

If I were to guess: you are doing something like

import socket
socket.socket = socket

somewhere, thus confusing the socket class with the module of the same name.

Peter



From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Tue Aug 18 07:32:23 2009
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 21:32:23 +1000
Subject: [Python-Dev] Mercurial migration: help needed
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4A8A6256.1030009@v.loewis.de>
	
Message-ID: <4A8A9147.7070109@skippinet.com.au>

On 18/08/2009 6:20 PM, Dirkjan Ochtman wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 10:12, "Martin v. L?wis"  wrote:
>> In this thread, I'd like to collect things that ought to be done
>> but where Dirkjan has indicated that he would prefer if somebody else
>> did it.
>
> I think the most important item here is currently the win32text stuff.
> Mark Hammond said he would work on this; Mark, when do you have time
> for this? Then I could set apart some time for it as well.

I can make time, somewhat spasmodically, starting fairly soon.  Might I 
suggest that as a first task I can resurrect my old stale patch, and you 
can arrange to install win32text locally and start experimenting with 
how mixed line-endings can work for you.  Once we are all playing in the 
same ballpark I think we should be able to make good progress.

I-said-ballpark-yet-I-call-myself-an-aussie? ly,

Mark


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Aug 18 07:36:49 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:36:49 +0200
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
In-Reply-To: <4A89CEA2.10400@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: 	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>			<1fa1663b-a1cb-42d4-890b-0617b73e8816@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<4A89CEA2.10400@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <4A8A9251.3080200@sequans.com>

MRAB wrote:
> Carl Banks wrote:
>> On Aug 17, 10:03 am, Jean-Michel Pichavant 
>> wrote:
>>> I'm no English native, but I already heard women/men referring to a
>>> group as "guys", no matter that group gender configuration. It's even
>>> used for group composed exclusively of women. Moreover it looks like a
>>> *very* friendly form, so there is really nothing to worry about it.
>>
>> I like how being very friendly means calling people after a guy who
>> tried to blow up the English Parliament.
>>
> Guy Fawkes adopted the name Guido while fighting for the Spanish in the
> Low Countries:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes
>
I didn't get Carl's reference. The only thing I know about blowing the 
parliament is from the movie V for Vendetta (no comment please !).
Now thanks to your link:
"In 18th-century England, the term "guy" was used to refer to an effigy 
 of Fawkes, which would be paraded 
around town by children on the anniversary of the conspiracy"

Well, my knowledge is much too low to get this kind of reference from 
the start. :-/

JM


From hani.mousli at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 07:37:54 2009
From: hani.mousli at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?2YfYp9mG2Yog2KfZhNmF2YjYtdmE2Yo=?=)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 04:37:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Strongly typed list
References: 
Message-ID: <1513faa5-e199-400c-a567-1f7b33aeb547@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>

I think i found a good managable solution. Actually it is trivial but
may help (I used it now).
When i wnat to access the list then i assign the object which i want
to access to a variable ex:
1)x=AutomataBranch()
2)x=self.cfgAutomata[i]

The first line is used only to make the IDE knows that x is from
AutomatBranch type.After that when i press x. then all methods and
properties are visualized.

I think it is some how good.


From exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  Tue Aug 18 07:45:18 2009
From: exarkun at twistedmatrix.com (exarkun at twistedmatrix.com)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:45:18 -0000
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<4434e799-d907-49ca-93ee-a4be3276f9c2@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<3c0abe16-f05a-4c5f-9773-f813bc424f14@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<20090817194155.8740.902674574.divmod.xquotient.69@localhost.localdomain>
	
Message-ID: <20090818114518.7602.827840579.divmod.xquotient.0@localhost.localdomain>

On 03:56 am, tjreedy at udel.edu wrote:
>exarkun at twistedmatrix.com wrote:
>>There's a lot of things in Python that I don't strictly *need*.  That 
>>doesn't mean that they wouldn't be welcome if I could have them. 
>>Getting rid of the range/xrange dichotomy would improve things.
>
>The developers agreed a couple of years ago. Starting using 3.1 if you 
>want this.

And there was much rejoicing, et cetera.
>Since 'range' could refer to a user-defined object, rather than the 
>builtin function, there is no way the interpreter should substitute 
>'xrange'.

See the earlier parts of this thread for the reasons this isn't true. :)

Jean-Paul


From dirkjan at ochtman.nl  Tue Aug 18 07:46:36 2009
From: dirkjan at ochtman.nl (Dirkjan Ochtman)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:46:36 +0200
Subject: [Python-Dev] Mercurial migration: help needed
In-Reply-To: <4A8A9147.7070109@skippinet.com.au>
References: <4A8A6256.1030009@v.loewis.de>
	
	<4A8A9147.7070109@skippinet.com.au>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 13:32, Mark Hammond wrote:
> I can make time, somewhat spasmodically, starting fairly soon. ?Might I
> suggest that as a first task I can resurrect my old stale patch, and you can
> arrange to install win32text locally and start experimenting with how mixed
> line-endings can work for you. ?Once we are all playing in the same ballpark
> I think we should be able to make good progress.

Sounds good to me.

Cheers,

Dirkjan


From sleepy at cabbage.co.uk  Tue Aug 18 07:48:42 2009
From: sleepy at cabbage.co.uk (Sleepy Cabbage)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:48:42 GMT
Subject: urlopen errors in script
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:21:59 +0200, Peter Otten wrote:

> Sleepy Cabbage wrote:
> 
>> I'm scripting a superkaramba theme using python and have intgrated
>> output from amarok. I have also would like to show the artist and song
>> title from a radio stream i've added to my playlist.
>> 
>> If I open a python console and add the following:
>> 
>> ">>>import urllib2"
>> ">>>from urllib2 import urlopen"
>> 
>> ">>>nowplaying = str.split(urlopen('http://www.hearteastmids.co.uk//
>> jsfiles/NowPlayingDisplay.aspx?f=http%3A%2F%2Frope.ccap.fimc.net%
2Ffeeds%
>> 2Fnowplaying%2FGlobal%2FHeart_Network%2FHeart_East_Midlands%
>> 2F6854.xml&l=6854&tzc=8&at=HeartEastMids').read(),'>')"
>> 
>> ">>>print test[4][:-3]"
>> 
>> this works and displays the artist and song title.
>> 
>> However, when I add this to my script I get the following errors:
> 
> Please give a minimal version of your script that produces the error,
> not some arbitrary excerpt that you ran successfully on the command
> line.
> 
> If I were to guess: you are doing something like
> 
> import socket
> socket.socket = socket
> 
> somewhere, thus confusing the socket class with the module of the same
> name.
> 
> Peter

Thanks Peter.

This is the script up to where the error seems to fall:

"#!/usr/bin/env superkaramba"
"# -*- coding: iso-8859-1 -*-"

"import karamba"
"import subprocess"
"from subprocess import Popen, PIPE, STDOUT, call"
"import urllib"
"from urllib import urlopen"

"#this is called when your widget is initialized"
"def initWidget(widget):"
  "clkPause = karamba.createClickArea(widget, 156, 470, 35, 35, "qdbus 
org.kde.amarok /Player Pause")"
  "nowplaying = urllib.urlopen('http://www.hearteastmids.co.uk//jsfiles/
NowPlayingDisplay.aspx?f=http%3A%2F%2Frope.ccap.fimc.net%2Ffeeds%
2Fnowplaying%2FGlobal%2FHeart_Network%2FHeart_East_Midlands%
2F6854.xml&l=6854&tzc=8&at=HeartEastMids').read()"

Hope this can enlighten things


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Tue Aug 18 07:55:06 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:55:06 +0200
Subject: Converting DD MM YYYY into YYYY-MM-DD?
In-Reply-To: <87ab1xif0k.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: 						<87iqgligl8.fsf@benfinney.id.au>	
	<87ab1xif0k.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <4a8a969b$0$30229$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net>

Ben Finney wrote:
>>> The principles of handling text in Python: Get it to internal Unicode
>>> objects as soon as possible, handle it as Unicode for as long as
>>> possible, and only encode it to some byte stream for output as late as
>>> possible.
> Again, note that these recommendations hold for *any* text in Python,
> with or without accents; once you accept that text is best handled in
> Unicode, there's little sense in making an exception for the limited
> subset that happens to be representable in ASCII.

If the QOTW wasn't meant for fun, I'd vote for this. This is very good advice.

Stefan


From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Aug 18 08:19:52 2009
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:19:52 +0200
Subject: urlopen errors in script
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

Sleepy Cabbage wrote:

> This is the script up to where the error seems to fall:
> 
> "#!/usr/bin/env superkaramba"
> "# -*- coding: iso-8859-1 -*-"
> 
> "import karamba"
> "import subprocess"
> "from subprocess import Popen, PIPE, STDOUT, call"
> "import urllib"
> "from urllib import urlopen"
> 
> "#this is called when your widget is initialized"
> "def initWidget(widget):"
>   "clkPause = karamba.createClickArea(widget, 156, 470, 35, 35, "qdbus
> org.kde.amarok /Player Pause")"
>   "nowplaying = urllib.urlopen('http://www.hearteastmids.co.uk//jsfiles/
> NowPlayingDisplay.aspx?f=http%3A%2F%2Frope.ccap.fimc.net%2Ffeeds%
> 2Fnowplaying%2FGlobal%2FHeart_Network%2FHeart_East_Midlands%
> 2F6854.xml&l=6854&tzc=8&at=HeartEastMids').read()"
> 
> Hope this can enlighten things

While there isn't any obvious blunder apart from the odd quotes that you 
wrap around every line there seem to be other files missing to run the 
script. I'm sorry, but I'm not prepared to invest much more than

$ sudo aptitude install superkaramba

into the problem.

Perhaps an actual user of superkaramba can step in.

Peter



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Tue Aug 18 08:59:43 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 18 Aug 2009 12:59:43 GMT
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<1fa1663b-a1cb-42d4-890b-0617b73e8816@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<4A89CEA2.10400@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	
Message-ID: <0014291d$0$2963$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:36:49 +0200, Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:

> MRAB wrote:
>> Carl Banks wrote:
>>> On Aug 17, 10:03 am, Jean-Michel Pichavant 
>>> wrote:
>>>> I'm no English native, but I already heard women/men referring to a
>>>> group as "guys", no matter that group gender configuration. It's even
>>>> used for group composed exclusively of women. Moreover it looks like
>>>> a *very* friendly form, so there is really nothing to worry about it.
>>>
>>> I like how being very friendly means calling people after a guy who
>>> tried to blow up the English Parliament.
>>>
>> Guy Fawkes adopted the name Guido while fighting for the Spanish in the
>> Low Countries:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes
>>
> I didn't get Carl's reference. The only thing I know about blowing the
> parliament is from the movie V for Vendetta (no comment please !). Now
> thanks to your link:
> "In 18th-century England, the term "guy" was used to refer to an effigy
>  of Fawkes, which would be paraded
> around town by children on the anniversary of the conspiracy"
> 
> Well, my knowledge is much too low to get this kind of reference from
> the start. :-/

"Guy" is an old English name, related to the old French name "Gy" and 
Italian "Guido". It's originally derived from the Old German for "wood" 
or "warrior".

After Guy Fawkes tried to blow up the English Parliament house, and was 
executed, the British government encouraged people to burn effigies of 
him. These became known as "guys", which eventually became slang for an 
ugly man, which later became slang for any man, and in recent years, any 
person.

So the irony is that the friendly term "guys", referring to a group of 
people, is derived from the name of an 18th century religious terrorist.

One can only wonder whether in 200 years time people will walk into the 
office and say "Hey you osamas, they're giving away free donuts down 
stairs, anyone want some?"



-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Tue Aug 18 09:01:53 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 18 Aug 2009 13:01:53 GMT
Subject: Diversity in Python (was Re: Need cleanup advice for multiline
	string)
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: <001429a0$0$2963$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 12:12:14 +0200, Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:

> On Tuesday 18 August 2009 06:45:39 Aahz wrote:
>> In article ,
>>
>> Steven D'Aprano   wrote:
>> >The comments were made a week ago -- why the sudden flurry of
>> >attention?
>>
>> Mainly an opportunity to flog the new diversity list.
> 
> Here my English fails me - flog as in "whip", or flog as in "sell"?

Almost certainly "flog" as in sell.

But not literally sell, for money, but sell in the sense of convincing 
others it is a good list to join.



-- 
Steven


From sleepy at cabbage.co.uk  Tue Aug 18 09:05:03 2009
From: sleepy at cabbage.co.uk (Sleepy Cabbage)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:05:03 GMT
Subject: urlopen errors in script
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: <3Gxim.148238$XK2.30441@newsfe15.ams2>

Thanks for the time you've spent anyway Peter. I have superkaramba 
installed and the rest of the script is running fine, it's only when I 
put the urlopen part in that it comes back with errors. The quotes are 
just to make it readable on here as my first attempt at posting muted the 
text.



From deets at nospam.web.de  Tue Aug 18 09:15:42 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 15:15:42 +0200
Subject: Strongly typed list
References: 
	<1513faa5-e199-400c-a567-1f7b33aeb547@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7evnruF2i9sm7U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

???? ??????? wrote:

> I think i found a good managable solution. Actually it is trivial but
> may help (I used it now).
> When i wnat to access the list then i assign the object which i want
> to access to a variable ex:
> 1)x=AutomataBranch()
> 2)x=self.cfgAutomata[i]
> 
> The first line is used only to make the IDE knows that x is from
> AutomatBranch type.After that when i press x. then all methods and
> properties are visualized.
> 
> I think it is some how good.

Unless x=AutomataBranch() is something that is expensive. And to be honest:
changing code (possibly introducing bugs!!!) to work around short-comings
in either your IDE or your way you insist to work strikes me as odd.

I understand the desire to have autocompletion. But it's not *that*
important. Maybe fabrio (who's maintaining the PyDev-eclipse-plugin) could
be asked to add something like this:

  #@x:AutomataBranch

to the plugin - so that when pydev reads that comment, it has a hint on what
to use for autocompletion.

Diez


From naveen.garg at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 09:50:56 2009
From: naveen.garg at gmail.com (naveen)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 06:50:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: define class over 2 files
References: <7de550a5-64af-4f40-a7fc-e3c449d0dce9@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6a490ec8-3536-4508-afd4-90a5cf9317b5@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<87zl9xiohe.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: 

> indicator of bad practice. What is the problem you're trying to solve?
> Ben Finney

No major problem.
I was just trying to make some experimental changes to autokey. My
repo: http://github.com/tinku99/autokey.git/

Didn't want to subclass or reorganize a class just yet.


From brochu121 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 09:51:45 2009
From: brochu121 at gmail.com (David Brochu)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 09:51:45 -0400
Subject: Compare content of two XML files
Message-ID: <9583ed900908180651h270a2218nc1a3c3bab383e897@mail.gmail.com>

I need to compare a REST XML response with a 'gold standard' response (one
that we have already verified is correct). The problem is, sometimes the
REST response comes back and it is logically correct, but the order of
attributes and elements is different than what is in the 'gold standard'
file. For example:

'Gold Standard':


    
    
        
            
        


REST Response:


    
    
        
            
        

Notice how the attributes in  and  are in different order. The
response is correct, but obviously doesn't match the 'gold standard'.

Does anyone know how I would be able to compare these two files and verify
they match, even though the order of attributes and elements may be
different between the two? Is there a module I should be using for this?
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From jjposner at optimum.net  Tue Aug 18 10:04:36 2009
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:04:36 -0400
Subject: Code formatting question: conditional expression
Message-ID: <4A8AB4F4.3040805@optimum.net>

While refactoring some code, I ran across an opportunity to use a 
conditional expression. Original:

  if total > P.BASE:
      excessblk = Block(total - P.BASE, srccol, carry_button_suppress=True)
  else:
      excessblk = None

Is there any consensus on how to format a conditional expression that is 
too long for one line? How about this:

  excessblk = (Block(total - P.BASE, srccol, carry_button_suppress=True)
               if total > P.BASE else
               None)

The above format separates the values from the if-then-else machinery. 
Too many lines? Would it be better to line up "if" and "else" 
vertically? ...

  excessblk = (Block(total - P.BASE, srccol, carry_button_suppress=True)
               if total > P.BASE
               else None)

PEP 308 is silent on this topic.

-John



From lauromoura at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 10:06:47 2009
From: lauromoura at gmail.com (Lauro Moura)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:06:47 -0300
Subject: ANN: PySide has been released
Message-ID: 

Hi,

The PySide team is pleased to announce the first public release of
PySide: Python for Qt!

PySide, its documentation, and developer resources are available at the
project website, http://www.pyside.org .

What is it?
-----------

PySide is a project providing an LGPL'd set of Python bindings for the
Qt framework.

PySide already provides a full set of Qt bindings as well as automated
binding generation tools. Since the whole toolset has been made
available, the team expects PySide to be valuable not only to Qt
software developers, but to people willing to create Python bindings to
any Qt-based library, or to any C++ library in general. Although based
on a different technical approach, PySide will initially be
API-compatible with existing Python bindings for Qt.

PySide is still a work in progress, and some work is still required to
stabilize the codebase. This being said, the team believes it is already
in a usable state, especially if an occasional rough edge and unpainted
surface can be tolerated. Due to practical reasons, the initial
development efforts have been focused on Linux, but the team hopes
people to join in porting the code to other platforms and to further
develop the bindings and tools.

Regards,
PySide team

-- 
Lauro Moura ("lmoura" on Freenode)
http://lauro.wordpress.com


From tuomas.vesterinen at iki.fi  Tue Aug 18 10:08:23 2009
From: tuomas.vesterinen at iki.fi (Tuomas Vesterinen)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:08:23 +0300
Subject: ANNOUNCEMENT: Tinybooker accounting released
Message-ID: <4a8ab5d7$0$24765$9b536df3@news.fv.fi>

Tinybooker 0.2.2 released at http://tinybooker.org/

Tinybooker is an accounting program offering the dual accounting
core functionality for moderate size accountings:

     * Assisted establishing new accountings
     * Localized scheme templates
     * Easy entering and saving new entries
     * Standard reports in plain text or HTML: Income Statement,
       Balance Sheet, Journal, Nominal Ledger, Final Statement
       and Scheme
     * Assisted opening the next financial year
     * Accounting example as a demo
     * Open for auditing, all files human readable plain text
     * All written in pure Python
     * License GPL3

This early release is for Linux only. Later Tinybooker will be
ported to Windows.

Developers, more translations wanted, join the project contacting
me at https://sourceforge.net/sendmessage.php?touser=2524141.


From deets at nospam.web.de  Tue Aug 18 10:10:01 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:10:01 +0200
Subject: Code formatting question: conditional expression
References: 
Message-ID: <7evr1pF2i4mouU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

John Posner wrote:

> While refactoring some code, I ran across an opportunity to use a
> conditional expression. Original:
> 
>   if total > P.BASE:
>       excessblk = Block(total - P.BASE, srccol,
>       carry_button_suppress=True)
>   else:
>       excessblk = None
> 
> Is there any consensus on how to format a conditional expression that is
> too long for one line? How about this:
> 
>   excessblk = (Block(total - P.BASE, srccol, carry_button_suppress=True)
>                if total > P.BASE else
>                None)
> 
> The above format separates the values from the if-then-else machinery.
> Too many lines? Would it be better to line up "if" and "else"
> vertically? ...
> 
>   excessblk = (Block(total - P.BASE, srccol, carry_button_suppress=True)
>                if total > P.BASE
>                else None)

My choice would be

excessblk = None
if total > P.BASE:
    excessblk = ...


You don't lose any vertical space, and it's much more readable IMHO.

Diez


From vs at it.uu.se  Tue Aug 18 10:28:08 2009
From: vs at it.uu.se (Virgil Stokes)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:28:08 +0200
Subject: Start-up program
Message-ID: <4A8ABA78.8050605@it.uu.se>

How difficult is to create a program that will be executed when Windows 
Vista is started? As Windows Calendar does, for example.

I am actually more interested in the Python tools that might be used for 
this task. I hope that this question is not inappropriate for the list. :-\

--V



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Aug 18 10:32:02 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:32:02 +0200
Subject: Code formatting question: conditional expression
In-Reply-To: <7evr1pF2i4mouU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: 
	<7evr1pF2i4mouU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <4A8ABB62.80702@sequans.com>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> John Posner wrote:
>
>   
>> While refactoring some code, I ran across an opportunity to use a
>> conditional expression. Original:
>>
>>   if total > P.BASE:
>>       excessblk = Block(total - P.BASE, srccol,
>>       carry_button_suppress=True)
>>   else:
>>       excessblk = None
>>
>> Is there any consensus on how to format a conditional expression that is
>> too long for one line? How about this:
>>
>>   excessblk = (Block(total - P.BASE, srccol, carry_button_suppress=True)
>>                if total > P.BASE else
>>                None)
>>
>> The above format separates the values from the if-then-else machinery.
>> Too many lines? Would it be better to line up "if" and "else"
>> vertically? ...
>>
>>   excessblk = (Block(total - P.BASE, srccol, carry_button_suppress=True)
>>                if total > P.BASE
>>                else None)
>>     
>
> My choice would be
>
> excessblk = None
> if total > P.BASE:
>     excessblk = ...
>
>
> You don't lose any vertical space, and it's much more readable IMHO.
>
> Diez
>   
+1, I'm using such layout whenever possible.

JM


From invalid at invalid  Tue Aug 18 10:36:03 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 09:36:03 -0500
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<1fa1663b-a1cb-42d4-890b-0617b73e8816@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-17, Carl Banks  wrote:
> On Aug 17, 10:03?am, Jean-Michel Pichavant 
> wrote:
>> I'm no English native, but I already heard women/men referring to a
>> group as "guys", no matter that group gender configuration. It's even
>> used for group composed exclusively of women. Moreover it looks like a
>> *very* friendly form, so there is really nothing to worry about it.
>
> I like how being very friendly means calling people after a guy who
> tried to blow up the English Parliament.

Everybody likes fireworks!

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Where do your SOCKS
                                  at               go when you lose them in
                               visi.com            th' WASHER?


From jliu6302 at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 18 10:38:05 2009
From: jliu6302 at yahoo.com (John Liu)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 07:38:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: listen and receive the stock price from a VPN
Message-ID: <685566.50872.qm@web53801.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hi, My friends
?
I am trying a Pyhton script to connect a VPN with (IP address, user ID, and passwrod).
?
suppose I need to use Socket to connect the VPN and compare to a list of stock tickers I want to receive. 
?
Is there any wasy way and fast way to do that?
?
Thanks so much in advance.
?
Kindly regards,
?
John


      
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From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Tue Aug 18 10:54:34 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 07:54:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: GUI interface builder for python
References: 
	<21bca3cf-b2c7-47d7-9142-26c9fd015f92@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com> 
	<02ec7cd9-e749-46d3-8b25-75d85794f292@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On 17 Aug, 17:19, Che M  wrote:

> Boa (Boa Constructor) is really nice for wxPython GUI
> work, but it has some bugs when using Linux that might
> be dealbreakers for the user. ?At least I have had
> problems on Ubuntu 8.10 64 bit (but none or very few
>

I prefer wxFormBuilder over Boa.


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Tue Aug 18 10:54:36 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 18 Aug 2009 14:54:36 GMT
Subject: Code formatting question: conditional expression
References: 
Message-ID: <0014440c$0$2963$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:04:36 -0400, John Posner wrote:

> While refactoring some code, I ran across an opportunity to use a
> conditional expression. Original:
> 
>   if total > P.BASE:
>       excessblk = Block(total - P.BASE, srccol,
>       carry_button_suppress=True)
>   else:
>       excessblk = None
> 
> Is there any consensus on how to format a conditional expression that is
> too long for one line?

Er, that defeats the purpose of using a conditional expression. If it's 
too long for one line, leave it as an if...else statement.

> How about this:
> 
>   excessblk = (Block(total - P.BASE, srccol, carry_button_suppress=True)
>                if total > P.BASE else
>                None)

If you insist on using the conditional expression, my preference would be:

  excessblk = (
    Block(total - P.BASE, srccol, carry_button_suppress=True)
    if total > P.BASE else None
    )


-- 
Steven


From jjposner at optimum.net  Tue Aug 18 10:58:05 2009
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:58:05 -0400
Subject: Code formatting question: conditional expression
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A8AC17D.5080602@optimum.net>

>
> My choice would be
>
> excessblk = None
> if total > P.BASE:
>     excessblk = ...
>

Diez and Jean-Michel,

Ha! Your suggestion above was my *original* coding. It looks like I'm 
evolving backwards!

But doesn't it violate the DRY principle? The token "excessblk" appears 
twice instead of once.

Thanks again,
John



From dmitrey.kroshko at scipy.org  Tue Aug 18 11:19:12 2009
From: dmitrey.kroshko at scipy.org (dmitrey)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 08:19:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: simplest way to visit 3 subdirectories with a command?
Message-ID: <487d46f0-db01-4134-b9a8-8360f5dc82f6@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

hi all,
could you inform how to compose a py-file (for soft installation),
that will visit 3 subdirectories (eg subdir1, subdir2, subdir3) and
invoke a command "python setup.py install" in each subdirectory?
I know there should be a simple solution available in Python
documentation, but I have an awful lots of other things to be done, so
could someone write these several lines of code?

Thank you in advance, D.


From R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk  Tue Aug 18 11:27:52 2009
From: R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk (Richard Brodie)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:27:52 +0100
Subject: Code formatting question: conditional expression
References: 
Message-ID: 


"John Posner"  wrote in message 
news:mailman.26.1250604346.2854.python-list at python.org...

>  if total > P.BASE:
>      excessblk = Block(total - P.BASE, srccol, carry_button_suppress=True)
>  else:
>      excessblk = None

I wonder if it is appropriate to replace the None sentinel with one that is an instance
of Block() e.g.

size = total - P.BASE
excessblk = Block(size, srccol, carry_button_suppress=True, empty_block=(size <= 0) )




From holdenweb at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 11:55:54 2009
From: holdenweb at gmail.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 08:55:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> 
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <90cd2c33-5f2d-4a29-b267-67f233ae2946@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>

> > Robert Dailey:
[...]
>
> It's a figure of speech. And besides, why would I want programming
> advice from a woman? lol. Thanks for the help.

Sorry, Robert, simply not acceptable. Whether designed to be funny or
not it's the kind of inane remark I would be really happy never to see
again.

The problem is that we can't just "let these things go by" all the
time (even though we aren't discussing a major crime here). If we do
that it encourages (at best) an atmosphere of complacency and a
feeling that it's OK to demean people in Python forums. I'd really
like to see those *not* get a hold.

regards
 Steve


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Aug 18 11:57:01 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:57:01 +0200
Subject: Code formatting question: conditional expression
In-Reply-To: <4A8AC17D.5080602@optimum.net>
References: 
	<4A8AC17D.5080602@optimum.net>
Message-ID: <4A8ACF4D.2080805@sequans.com>

John Posner wrote:
>>
>> My choice would be
>>
>> excessblk = None
>> if total > P.BASE:
>>     excessblk = ...
>>
>
> Diez and Jean-Michel,
>
> Ha! Your suggestion above was my *original* coding. It looks like I'm 
> evolving backwards!
>
> But doesn't it violate the DRY principle? The token "excessblk" 
> appears twice instead of once.
>
> Thanks again,
> John
>
I don't see any problem in that. You are hunting poor readability, not 
redundancy, it's up to you to decide of you priorities. I would still 
advise that readability should rule your world.

JM






From deets at nospam.web.de  Tue Aug 18 11:57:28 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:57:28 +0200
Subject: Start-up program
References: 
Message-ID: <7f01b8F2hfu8qU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Virgil Stokes wrote:

> How difficult is to create a program that will be executed when Windows
> Vista is started? As Windows Calendar does, for example.
> 
> I am actually more interested in the Python tools that might be used for
> this task. I hope that this question is not inappropriate for the list.

There are many discussions here about creating an exe (py2exe) that you
could start in autostart, and how to run scripts as windows services, which
is the other option.

Just google a bit.

Diez


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Aug 18 12:00:09 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 18:00:09 +0200
Subject: Start-up program
In-Reply-To: <4A8ABA78.8050605@it.uu.se>
References: <4A8ABA78.8050605@it.uu.se>
Message-ID: <4A8AD009.5050005@sequans.com>

Virgil Stokes wrote:
> How difficult is to create a program that will be executed when 
> Windows Vista is started? As Windows Calendar does, for example.
>
> I am actually more interested in the Python tools that might be used 
> for this task. I hope that this question is not inappropriate for the 
> list. :-\
>
> --V
>
Well put your program in your startup folder or configure it as a 
service in the service manager of windows.

Now your problem becomes "How difficult is to create a program" for 
which there is no easy answer as it really depends on the kind of program.

JM


From madzientist at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 12:04:54 2009
From: madzientist at gmail.com (madzientist)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 09:04:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Mac OS 9.2
Message-ID: <96ab6db4-55c5-4142-8ef8-d7fbe97e4c4d@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

hi,

i have to work with mac OS 9.2 for legacy reasons...is there a
compiled version of python for this os ? i need to get input about
variable values from the user and then print out some text files that
make use of this input. a gui would be nice, but keyboard based input
would be ok too...

thanks much,

suresh

ps. if there isn't a version of pythn that will work, perhaps you
could suggest some other scripting language for 0S 9.2 ?


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Tue Aug 18 12:09:24 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:09:24 +0100
Subject: Start-up program
In-Reply-To: <4A8ABA78.8050605@it.uu.se>
References: <4A8ABA78.8050605@it.uu.se>
Message-ID: <4A8AD234.7050205@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Virgil Stokes wrote:
> How difficult is to create a program that will be executed when Windows 
> Vista is started? As Windows Calendar does, for example.
> 
> I am actually more interested in the Python tools that might be used for 
> this task. I hope that this question is not inappropriate for the list. :-\
> 
Look for the Windows Startup folder. A quick search with Google found:

     http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/topic85142.html



From nirvana117 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 12:49:55 2009
From: nirvana117 at gmail.com (dou dou)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 00:49:55 +0800
Subject: problem with interface of operator.itemgetter
In-Reply-To: <50f98a4c0908161132o4bf73e80lf306f89108c1e669@mail.gmail.com>
References: <19b355330908132016y49f2679u631c3123fcfc920a@mail.gmail.com>
	<50f98a4c0908161132o4bf73e80lf306f89108c1e669@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <19b355330908180949x2f8635dfk39ae892a9f6943b2@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/17 Simon Forman 

>  You can use a little helper function to create your itemgetter like this:
>
> def makeItemGetter(indexes):
>    I = itemgetter(*indexes)
>    if len(indexes) > 1:
>        return I
>    return lambda thing: (I(thing),)
>
> If indexes contains only one index the itemgetter is wrapped in a
> lambda that turns its output into a tuple.


Thanks. I just thought if the stdlib could support some function like item*s
*getter would be better, it always returns tuple instead of a item or a
tuple of items.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Aug 18 13:05:49 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 19:05:49 +0200
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
In-Reply-To: <90cd2c33-5f2d-4a29-b267-67f233ae2946@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
References: 	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<90cd2c33-5f2d-4a29-b267-67f233ae2946@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A8ADF6D.2030405@sequans.com>

Steve Holden wrote:
>>> Robert Dailey:
>>>       
> [...]
>   
>> It's a figure of speech. And besides, why would I want programming
>> advice from a woman? lol. Thanks for the help.
>>     
>
> Sorry, Robert, simply not acceptable. Whether designed to be funny or
> not it's the kind of inane remark I would be really happy never to see
> again.
>
> The problem is that we can't just "let these things go by" all the
> time (even though we aren't discussing a major crime here). If we do
> that it encourages (at best) an atmosphere of complacency and a
> feeling that it's OK to demean people in Python forums. I'd really
> like to see those *not* get a hold.
>
> regards
>  Steve
>   
Did you read the original post (this is an old one) ? Because quoting a 
joke out of its context is totally unfair.
Anyway the hysteria that is surrounding this thread is just amazing. I'm 
waiting for more.

JM



From james.harris.1 at googlemail.com  Tue Aug 18 13:09:29 2009
From: james.harris.1 at googlemail.com (James Harris)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:09:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Identifying a class type - bad practice?
Message-ID: <5a6e91f5-83c1-42a3-ab8a-082c4d8e840c@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

I am writing some code to form a tree of nodes of different types. The
idea is to define one class per node type such as

class node_type_1(node):
  
class node_type_2(node):
  
etc

(Class "node" would hold any common properties).

When walking the tree I need to know what type of node I'm dealing
with so polymorphism isn't generally useful. The action to be taken
depends on the node type. Two options appear to be useful: __class__
and isinstance. I know the latter will match the instance against any
superclass and the former will match one class only.

My question is: is this the Pythonic way to deal with such a tree? Is
there a better way? In C I would use structs where one field was a tag
indicating the kind of struct.

James


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Tue Aug 18 13:11:54 2009
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 12:11:54 -0500
Subject: simplest way to visit 3 subdirectories with a command?
In-Reply-To: <487d46f0-db01-4134-b9a8-8360f5dc82f6@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <487d46f0-db01-4134-b9a8-8360f5dc82f6@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A8AE0DA.1080909@tim.thechases.com>

> could you inform how to compose a py-file (for soft installation),
> that will visit 3 subdirectories (eg subdir1, subdir2, subdir3) and
> invoke a command "python setup.py install" in each subdirectory?
> I know there should be a simple solution available in Python

If you're executing "python setup.py install", that sounds like 
you're operating at the shell level, not within python.  In which 
case, I'd just use my shell's iteration capabilities:

   # running bash on a *nix-like OS
   bash$ for dir in subdir1 subdir2 subdir3; do pushd $dir; 
python setup.py install; popd; done

   # running within Win32's cmd.exe
   c:\temp\> for %f in (subdir1 subdir2 subdir3) do pushd %f & 
python setup.py install & popd

or something of the sort.  Remember in Win32 that the variables 
have to be escaped if you put them in a batch file ("%%f" instead 
of "%f")

-tkc






From seldan24 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 13:18:42 2009
From: seldan24 at gmail.com (seldan24)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:18:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Using a Callback Function - ftplib
References: <76875cdd-30c4-4a3b-8a16-d0e2061765d7@v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<1euafoc8zeh0q.91hedjv5ueuh$.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 18, 6:02?am, Nitebirdz  wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 11:10:25AM -0700, seldan24 wrote:
>
> > I didn't even notice the higher level methods. ?I changed the
> > retrieval line to:
>
> > ftp.nlst("testfile*.txt")
>
> > This works great. ?The result is even captured in an array. ?I really
> > have no idea what the difference between a LIST and NLST is within
> > FTP. ?Never delved that deep into it. ?I did notice that an NLST will
> > return a specific FTP code if a file doesn't exist, whereas a LIST
> > doesn't. ?So, I ended up using NLST as that'll generate an
> > ftplib.error_perm exception. ?Based on if the job cares if a file is
> > not available or not (some do, some don't), I'll either exit, or
> > continue on with the file loop.
>
> The following thread from a NetBSD mailing list may help clarify this
> issue:
>
> http://mail-index.netbsd.org/netbsd-users/2001/01/30/0016.html
>
> NLST returns a machine-readable list of names, while LIST returns a
> human-readable list. ?Hene the presence of the FTP code in the case of
> NLST. ?

Nitebirdz,

Thanks for the information.  I knew it stood for 'named list' but had
no idea how that differed from the standard.  I appreciate the link.


From madzientist at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 13:19:10 2009
From: madzientist at gmail.com (madzientist)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:19:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Mac OS 9.2
References: <96ab6db4-55c5-4142-8ef8-d7fbe97e4c4d@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5ed2205e-9542-44c3-a8b7-70f52b0d09cb@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>


ok, i found macpython 2.3 at this site: http://homepages.cwi.nl/~jack/macpython/macpython-older.html

is this the best option for me in terms of using python on os 9.2 ?

thanks much !!

suresh


On Aug 18, 6:04?pm, madzientist  wrote:
> hi,
>
> i have to work with mac OS 9.2 for legacy reasons...is there a
> compiled version of python for this os ? i need to get input about
> variable values from the user and then print out some text files that
> make use of this input. a gui would be nice, but keyboard based input
> would be ok too...
>
> thanks much,
>
> suresh
>
> ps. if there isn't a version of pythn that will work, perhaps you
> could suggest some other scripting language for 0S 9.2 ?



From jjposner at optimum.net  Tue Aug 18 13:25:46 2009
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:25:46 -0400
Subject: Code formatting question: conditional expression
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A8AE41A.3060107@optimum.net>


> I wonder if it is appropriate to replace the None sentinel with one that is an instance
> of Block() e.g.
>
> size = total - P.BASE
> excessblk = Block(size, srccol, carry_button_suppress=True, empty_block=(size <= 0) )
>   

In this particular case, Richard, I don't think so. The Block class is 
an application-level wrapper for a graphical object. I don't want to 
worry about zero-size objects. ("Is this column really empty, or does it 
contain one or more zero-size blocks?") If you're interested, take a 
look at "BlockHead" at www.jjposner.net.

BTW, from the (admittedly few) responses to my original post, it seems 
there's some sentiment that "conditional expressions" are a non-Pythonic 
misfeature. Interesting ...

-John





From chris at simplistix.co.uk  Tue Aug 18 13:39:10 2009
From: chris at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 18:39:10 +0100
Subject: xlutils 1.4.0 released!
Message-ID: <4A8AE73E.9030504@simplistix.co.uk>

Hi All,

I'm pleased to announce a new release of xlutils. This is a small
collection of utilities that make use of both xlrd and xlwt to process
Microsoft Excel files. The changes for this release are as follows:

- Add sheet density information and onesheet option to
   xlutils.margins.

- Reduced the memory footprint of xlutils.filter.ColumnTrimmer at the
   expense of speed.

- Fixed incorrect warnings about boolean cells in
   xlutils.filter.ErrorFilter. xlwt has always supported boolean
   cells.

- xlutils.filter.BaseReader now opens workbooks with on_demand = True

- Added support for xlrd Books opened with on_demand as True passed to
   open_workbook.

- Fixed bug when copying error cells.

- Requires the latest versions of xlrd (0.7.1) and xlwt (0.7.2).

To find out more, please read here:

http://www.simplistix.co.uk/software/python/xlutils

In case you're not aware, xlrd and xlwt are two excellent pure-python
libraries for reading and writing Excel files. They run on any platform
and, likely, any implementation of Python without the need for horrific
things like binding to Excel via COM and so needing a Windows machine.

If you use any of xlrd, xlwt or xlutils, the following google group will
be of use:

http://groups.google.com.au/group/python-excel

Hope some of this is of interest, I'd love to hear from anyone who ends
up using it!

cheers,

Chris

-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting
            - http://www.simplistix.co.uk





From rcdailey at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 14:19:28 2009
From: rcdailey at gmail.com (Robert Dailey)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:19:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Parallelization in Python 2.6
Message-ID: <9d9e7278-d855-4066-b090-46d5060dc051@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

I'm looking for a way to parallelize my python script without using
typical threading primitives. For example, C++ has pthreads and TBB to
break things into "tasks". I would like to see something like this for
python. So, if I have a very linear script:

doStuff1()
doStuff2()


I can parallelize it easily like so:

create_task( doStuff1 )
create_task( doStuff2 )

Both of these functions would be called from new threads, and once
execution ends the threads would die. I realize this is a simple
example and I could create my own classes for this functionality, but
I do not want to bother if a solution already exists.

Thanks in advance.


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Tue Aug 18 14:41:18 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 20:41:18 +0200
Subject: Parallelization in Python 2.6
In-Reply-To: <9d9e7278-d855-4066-b090-46d5060dc051@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
References: <9d9e7278-d855-4066-b090-46d5060dc051@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a8af5ce$0$30224$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net>

Robert Dailey wrote:
> I'm looking for a way to parallelize my python script without using
> typical threading primitives. For example, C++ has pthreads and TBB to
> break things into "tasks". I would like to see something like this for
> python. So, if I have a very linear script:
> 
> doStuff1()
> doStuff2()
> 
> 
> I can parallelize it easily like so:
> 
> create_task( doStuff1 )
> create_task( doStuff2 )
> 
> Both of these functions would be called from new threads, and once
> execution ends the threads would die. I realize this is a simple
> example and I could create my own classes for this functionality, but
> I do not want to bother if a solution already exists.

I think the canonical answer is to use the threading module or (preferably)
the multiprocessing module, which is new in Py2.6.

http://docs.python.org/library/threading.html
http://docs.python.org/library/multiprocessing.html

Both share a (mostly) common interface and are simple enough to use. They
are pretty close to the above interface already.

Stefan


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Tue Aug 18 14:43:36 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:43:36 -0700
Subject: Code formatting question: conditional expression
In-Reply-To: <4A8AE41A.3060107@optimum.net>
References: 
	<4A8AE41A.3060107@optimum.net>
Message-ID: <4A8AF658.4090400@stoneleaf.us>

John Posner wrote:
> 
> BTW, from the (admittedly few) responses to my original post, it seems 
> there's some sentiment that "conditional expressions" are a non-Pythonic 
> misfeature. Interesting ...
> 
> -John
> 
> 
> 

I didn't read it that way.  One of the (to me) core points of Pythonic 
is readability.  A conditional expression on one line is fine -- a 
conditional expression on more than one line is less readable than the 
standard if-else structure.

~Ethan~


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Tue Aug 18 15:08:42 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 12:08:42 -0700
Subject: Identifying a class type - bad practice?
In-Reply-To: <5a6e91f5-83c1-42a3-ab8a-082c4d8e840c@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <5a6e91f5-83c1-42a3-ab8a-082c4d8e840c@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A8AFC3A.4000608@stoneleaf.us>

James Harris wrote:
> I am writing some code to form a tree of nodes of different types. The
> idea is to define one class per node type such as
> 
> class node_type_1(node):
>   
> class node_type_2(node):
>   
> etc
> 
> (Class "node" would hold any common properties).
> 
> When walking the tree I need to know what type of node I'm dealing
> with so polymorphism isn't generally useful. The action to be taken
> depends on the node type. Two options appear to be useful: __class__
> and isinstance. I know the latter will match the instance against any
> superclass and the former will match one class only.
> 
> My question is: is this the Pythonic way to deal with such a tree? Is
> there a better way? In C I would use structs where one field was a tag
> indicating the kind of struct.
> 
> James

I would recommend going with isinstance.  An instance of node_type_2 
will not be an instance node_type_1, so no worries there, and it leaves 
open the option of subclassing further if you need to later on.

~Ethan~


From andre.roberge at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 15:24:18 2009
From: andre.roberge at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9?=)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 12:24:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Identifying a class type - bad practice?
References: <5a6e91f5-83c1-42a3-ab8a-082c4d8e840c@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0aab1195-8ae5-4550-993f-bec9aca7e27e@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 18, 2:09?pm, James Harris 
wrote:
> I am writing some code to form a tree of nodes of different types. The
> idea is to define one class per node type such as
>
> class node_type_1(node):
> ? 
> class node_type_2(node):
> ? 
> etc
>
> (Class "node" would hold any common properties).
>
> When walking the tree I need to know what type of node I'm dealing
> with so polymorphism isn't generally useful. The action to be taken
> depends on the node type. Two options appear to be useful: __class__
> and isinstance. I know the latter will match the instance against any
> superclass and the former will match one class only.
>
> My question is: is this the Pythonic way to deal with such a tree? Is
> there a better way? In C I would use structs where one field was a tag
> indicating the kind of struct.
>
> James

I would probably go with hasattr(instance, 'what_I_want')

Andr?


From sajmikins at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 15:42:10 2009
From: sajmikins at gmail.com (Simon Forman)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 15:42:10 -0400
Subject: comparing XML files to eachother
In-Reply-To: <9583ed900908171251k50fafaefrd626439bf1bd9a3c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9583ed900908171251k50fafaefrd626439bf1bd9a3c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50f98a4c0908181242w734a3b64k68b8928bdef0c88d@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 3:51 PM, David Brochu wrote:
> I need to compare one xml document to another to see if the content matches.
> Unfortunately, the formatting (spacing) and order of elements may change
> between files from run to run. I have looked into xml dom minidom but can't
> seem to find how to accomplish this. Does anyone know how I can do a compare
> between two XML documents using the STL?

It seems to me that you're going to have to "normalize" the documents
to be able to compare them.  (I.e. strip or ignore spacing
differences, sort the elements to be in the same order, etc..)


From pavpanchekha at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 15:44:55 2009
From: pavpanchekha at gmail.com (Pavel Panchekha)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 12:44:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Inheriting dictionary
Message-ID: <95736695-29b5-4185-8764-8eca140b76d2@e18g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>

I want a dictionary that will transparently "inherit" from a parent
dictionary. So, for example:

"""
a = InheritDict({1: "one", 2: "two", 4: "four"})
b = InheritDict({3: "three", 4: "foobar"}, inherit_from=a)

a[1] # "one"
a[4] # "four"
b[1] # "one"
b[3] # "three"
b[4] # "foobar"
"""

I've written something like this in Python already, but I'm wondering
if something like this already exists, preferably written in C, for
speed.


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Tue Aug 18 15:48:58 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 21:48:58 +0200
Subject: Code formatting question: conditional expression
In-Reply-To: <0014440c$0$2963$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 
	<0014440c$0$2963$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

18-08-2009 Steven D'Aprano  wrote:

> On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:04:36 -0400, John Posner wrote:
>
[snip]
>> How about this:
>>
>>   excessblk = (Block(total - P.BASE, srccol, carry_button_suppress=True)
>>                if total > P.BASE else
>>                None)
>
> If you insist on using the conditional expression, my preference would  
> be:
>
>   excessblk = (
>     Block(total - P.BASE, srccol, carry_button_suppress=True)
>     if total > P.BASE else None
>     )

Generally I'd prefer:

  excessblk = (Block(........) if total > P.BASE
               else None)

But it this case first line would be too long, then I'd try using:

  excessblk = (Block(total - P.BASE, srccol,
                     carry_button_suppress=True) if total > P.BASE
               else None)

or

  excessblk = (Block(total - P.BASE, srccol, carry_button_suppress=True)
               if total > P.BASE else None)

I'd use conditional expression only (rather) in situation when the first
expression-part was 'common' and the other (after else) was 'rare'.

Cheers,
*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From code at pizzashack.org  Tue Aug 18 16:10:15 2009
From: code at pizzashack.org (Derek Martin)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 15:10:15 -0500
Subject: basic thread question
Message-ID: <20090818201015.GP20434@dragontoe.org>

I have some simple threaded code...  If I run this
with an arg of 1 (start one thread), it pegs one cpu, as I would
expect.  If I run it with an arg of 2 (start 2 threads), it uses both
CPUs, but utilization of both is less than 50%.  Can anyone explain
why?  

I do not pretend it's impeccable code, and I'm not looking for a
critiqe of the code per se, excepting the case where what I've written
is actually *wrong*. I hacked this together in a couple of minutes,
with the intent of pegging my CPUs.  Performance with two threads is
actually *worse* than with one, which is highly unintuitive.  I can
accomplish my goal very easily with bash, but I still want to
understand what's going on here...

The OS is Linux 2.6.24, on a Ubuntu base.  Here's the code:

Thanks

-=-=-=-=-

#!/usr/bin/python

import thread, sys, time

def busy(thread):
    x=0
    while True:
        x+=1

if __name__ == '__main__':
    try:
        cpus = int(sys.argv[1])
    except ValueError:
        cpus = 1
    print "cpus = %d, argv[1] = %s\n" % (cpus, sys.argv[1])
    i=0
    thread_list = []
    while i < cpus:
        x = thread.start_new_thread(busy, (i,))
        thread_list.append(x)
        i+=1
    while True:
        pass

-- 
Derek D. Martin
http://www.pizzashack.org/
GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D

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From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Tue Aug 18 16:23:09 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 22:23:09 +0200
Subject: Inheriting dictionary
In-Reply-To: <95736695-29b5-4185-8764-8eca140b76d2@e18g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
References: <95736695-29b5-4185-8764-8eca140b76d2@e18g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

18-08-2009 o 21:44:55 Pavel Panchekha  wrote:

> I want a dictionary that will transparently "inherit" from a parent
> dictionary. So, for example:
>
> """
> a = InheritDict({1: "one", 2: "two", 4: "four"})
> b = InheritDict({3: "three", 4: "foobar"}, inherit_from=a)
>
> a[1] # "one"
> a[4] # "four"
> b[1] # "one"
> b[3] # "three"
> b[4] # "foobar"
> """
>
> I've written something like this in Python already, but I'm wondering
> if something like this already exists, preferably written in C, for
> speed.

AFAIN -- no. But you can easily implement it in Python with rather
small loss of speed...


  class InheritDict(dict):

      class NoParent(object):
          def __getitem__(self, key):
              raise KeyError('There is no %r key in the hierarchy' % key)
          def __nonzero__(self):
              return False

      noparent = NoParent()

      def __init__(self, *args, **kwargs):
          parent = kwargs.pop('inherit_from', self.noparent)
          dict.__init__(self, *args, **kwargs)
          self.parent = parent

      def __getitem__(self, key):
          try:
              return dict.__getitem__(self, key)
          except KeyError:
              return self.parent[key]


Did you do it in similar way? (just curiosity) :-)

Regards,
*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From nat.williams at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 16:27:41 2009
From: nat.williams at gmail.com (Nat Williams)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 15:27:41 -0500
Subject: Inheriting dictionary
In-Reply-To: <95736695-29b5-4185-8764-8eca140b76d2@e18g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
References: <95736695-29b5-4185-8764-8eca140b76d2@e18g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 2:44 PM, Pavel Panchekha wrote:

> I want a dictionary that will transparently "inherit" from a parent
> dictionary. So, for example:
>
> """
> a = InheritDict({1: "one", 2: "two", 4: "four"})
> b = InheritDict({3: "three", 4: "foobar"}, inherit_from=a)
>
> a[1] # "one"
> a[4] # "four"
> b[1] # "one"
> b[3] # "three"
> b[4] # "foobar"
> """
>
> I've written something like this in Python already, but I'm wondering
> if something like this already exists, preferably written in C, for
> speed.


Why complicate this with a custom object?  Just use regular dicts and make b
a copy of a.

a = {1: 'one', 2: 'two', 4: 'four'}
b = dict(a)
b[3] = 'three'
b[4] = 'foobar'
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From rcdailey at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 16:27:49 2009
From: rcdailey at gmail.com (Robert Dailey)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:27:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to create functors?
Message-ID: 

Hello,

I want to simply wrap a function up into an object so it can be called
with no parameters. The parameters that it would otherwise have taken
are already filled in. Like so:


      print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
      print1()

However, the above code fails with:

  File "C:\IT\work\distro_test\distribute_radix.py", line 286
    print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
                         ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

How can I get this working?


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Tue Aug 18 16:31:51 2009
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 18 Aug 2009 20:31:51 GMT
Subject: How to create functors?
References: 
Message-ID: 

Robert Dailey  wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I want to simply wrap a function up into an object so it can be called
> with no parameters. The parameters that it would otherwise have taken
> are already filled in. Like so:
> 
> 
>       print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
>       print1()
> 
> However, the above code fails with:
> 
>   File "C:\IT\work\distro_test\distribute_radix.py", line 286
>     print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
>                          ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
> 
> How can I get this working?

def print1():
    print "Foobar"

It looks like in your version of Python "print" isn't a function. It always 
helps if you say the exact version you are using in your question as the 
exact answer you need may vary.


From rcdailey at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 16:32:55 2009
From: rcdailey at gmail.com (Robert Dailey)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:32:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to create functors?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 18, 3:31?pm, Duncan Booth  wrote:
> Robert Dailey  wrote:
> > Hello,
>
> > I want to simply wrap a function up into an object so it can be called
> > with no parameters. The parameters that it would otherwise have taken
> > are already filled in. Like so:
>
> > ? ? ? print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
> > ? ? ? print1()
>
> > However, the above code fails with:
>
> > ? File "C:\IT\work\distro_test\distribute_radix.py", line 286
> > ? ? print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?^
> > SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>
> > How can I get this working?
>
> def print1():
> ? ? print "Foobar"
>
> It looks like in your version of Python "print" isn't a function. It always
> helps if you say the exact version you are using in your question as the
> exact answer you need may vary.

I'm using Python 2.6. And using the legacy syntax in the lambda does
not work either. I want to avoid using a def if possible. Thanks.


From pavpanchekha at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 16:32:58 2009
From: pavpanchekha at gmail.com (Pavel Panchekha)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:32:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Inheriting dictionary
References: <95736695-29b5-4185-8764-8eca140b76d2@e18g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <54699ee8-9c14-4aea-be86-06ef49be86c5@d21g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 18, 4:23?pm, "Jan Kaliszewski"  wrote:
> 18-08-2009 o 21:44:55 Pavel Panchekha  wrote:
>
>
>
> > I want a dictionary that will transparently "inherit" from a parent
> > dictionary. So, for example:
>
> > """
> > a = InheritDict({1: "one", 2: "two", 4: "four"})
> > b = InheritDict({3: "three", 4: "foobar"}, inherit_from=a)
>
> > a[1] # "one"
> > a[4] # "four"
> > b[1] # "one"
> > b[3] # "three"
> > b[4] # "foobar"
> > """
>
> > I've written something like this in Python already, but I'm wondering
> > if something like this already exists, preferably written in C, for
> > speed.
>
> AFAIN -- no. But you can easily implement it in Python with rather
> small loss of speed...
>
> ? class InheritDict(dict):
>
> ? ? ? class NoParent(object):
> ? ? ? ? ? def __getitem__(self, key):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? raise KeyError('There is no %r key in the hierarchy' % key)
> ? ? ? ? ? def __nonzero__(self):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? return False
>
> ? ? ? noparent = NoParent()
>
> ? ? ? def __init__(self, *args, **kwargs):
> ? ? ? ? ? parent = kwargs.pop('inherit_from', self.noparent)
> ? ? ? ? ? dict.__init__(self, *args, **kwargs)
> ? ? ? ? ? self.parent = parent
>
> ? ? ? def __getitem__(self, key):
> ? ? ? ? ? try:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? return dict.__getitem__(self, key)
> ? ? ? ? ? except KeyError:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? return self.parent[key]
>
> Did you do it in similar way? (just curiosity) :-)
>
> Regards,
> *j
>
> --
> Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 

I implemented it in a similar way (instead of a try block, an if
block, which works a tiny bit faster; also have a multiple-parents
case, but its rare, and I could do that in Python without much loss of
speed). Pity that there's no C version; this InheritDict is kind of
the core of my application (in a very basic test, I have 329901 calls
to __getitem__).

Oh well; I'll see if I can optimize the __getattr__ function with
minor tweaking. Thanks for your help.


From rcdailey at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 16:36:07 2009
From: rcdailey at gmail.com (Robert Dailey)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:36:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to create functors?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 18, 3:31?pm, Duncan Booth  wrote:
> Robert Dailey  wrote:
> > Hello,
>
> > I want to simply wrap a function up into an object so it can be called
> > with no parameters. The parameters that it would otherwise have taken
> > are already filled in. Like so:
>
> > ? ? ? print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
> > ? ? ? print1()
>
> > However, the above code fails with:
>
> > ? File "C:\IT\work\distro_test\distribute_radix.py", line 286
> > ? ? print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?^
> > SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>
> > How can I get this working?
>
> def print1():
> ? ? print "Foobar"
>
> It looks like in your version of Python "print" isn't a function. It always
> helps if you say the exact version you are using in your question as the
> exact answer you need may vary.

Seems like it works fine on everything else except for print(). For
example:

print1 = lambda: MyFunction( "FooBar" )

The syntax above is accepted by the interpreter.


From sajmikins at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 16:37:21 2009
From: sajmikins at gmail.com (Simon Forman)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:37:21 -0400
Subject: define class over 2 files
In-Reply-To: 
References: <7de550a5-64af-4f40-a7fc-e3c449d0dce9@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <50f98a4c0908181337q6295f977ubcf8edab02fef5cb@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 1:57 AM, Steven
D'Aprano wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 21:45:57 -0700, naveen wrote:
>
>> Is it possible to split up a class definition over multiple files?
>
> Not exactly, but you can do variations of this:
>
>
> In file A.py, create:
>
> class Parent:
> ? ?def method(self):
> ? ? ? ?return "Method"
>
>
> In file B.py, do this:
>
> import A
> class Child(B.parent):

class Child(A.Parent):


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Tue Aug 18 16:40:37 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:40:37 -0700
Subject: How to create functors?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908181340n48f510cdx79ee9ceeb416d4a5@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 1:32 PM, Robert Dailey wrote:
> On Aug 18, 3:31?pm, Duncan Booth  wrote:
>> Robert Dailey  wrote:
>> > Hello,
>>
>> > I want to simply wrap a function up into an object so it can be called
>> > with no parameters. The parameters that it would otherwise have taken
>> > are already filled in. Like so:
>>
>> > ? ? ? print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
>> > ? ? ? print1()
>>
>> > However, the above code fails with:
>>
>> > ? File "C:\IT\work\distro_test\distribute_radix.py", line 286
>> > ? ? print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
>> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?^
>> > SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>>
>> > How can I get this working?
>>
>> def print1():
>> ? ? print "Foobar"
>>
>> It looks like in your version of Python "print" isn't a function. It always
>> helps if you say the exact version you are using in your question as the
>> exact answer you need may vary.
>
> I'm using Python 2.6. And using the legacy syntax in the lambda does
> not work either. I want to avoid using a def if possible. Thanks.

chris at morpheus ~ $ python
Python 2.6.2 (r262:71600, May 14 2009, 16:34:51)
[GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Inc. build 5484)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
  File "", line 1
    print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
                         ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>>> from __future__ import print_function
>>> print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
>>> print1()
Foobar

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Tue Aug 18 16:41:16 2009
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:41:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Parallelization in Python 2.6
References: <9d9e7278-d855-4066-b090-46d5060dc051@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <17baaedc-2eeb-4ede-b416-afed3c2b0fc8@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 18, 11:19?am, Robert Dailey  wrote:
> I'm looking for a way to parallelize my python script without using
> typical threading primitives. For example, C++ has pthreads and TBB to
> break things into "tasks". I would like to see something like this for
> python. So, if I have a very linear script:
>
> doStuff1()
> doStuff2()
>
> I can parallelize it easily like so:
>
> create_task( doStuff1 )
> create_task( doStuff2 )
>
> Both of these functions would be called from new threads, and once
> execution ends the threads would die. I realize this is a simple
> example and I could create my own classes for this functionality, but
> I do not want to bother if a solution already exists.
>

If you haven't heard of the Python GIL, you'll want to find out sooner
rather than later. Short summary: Python doesn't do threading very
well.

There are quite a few parallelization solutions out there for Python,
however. (I don't know what they are off the top of my head, however.)
The way they work is they have worker processes that can be spread
across machines. When you want to parallelize a task, you send off a
function to those worker threads.

There are some serious caveats and problems, not the least of which is
sharing code between the worker threads and the director, so this
isn't a great solution.

If you're looking for highly parallelized code, Python may not be the
right answer. Try something like Erlang or Haskell.


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Tue Aug 18 16:42:46 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 22:42:46 +0200
Subject: define class over 2 files
In-Reply-To: <2d56febf0908172158l760256rc703d7d87f04e509@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7de550a5-64af-4f40-a7fc-e3c449d0dce9@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<2d56febf0908172158l760256rc703d7d87f04e509@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

18-08-2009 o 06:58:58 Xavier Ho  wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 2:45 PM, naveen  wrote:
>
>> Is it possible to split up a class definition over multiple files?
>> -
> Answer in short, I don't think so.

Why not?

---------
File a.py:

  class MyClass:
      def foo(self, x):
          return x * 6

---------
File b.py:

  import a
  def bar(self):
      print 'bar'
  def baz(self, a):
      print self.foooo(a)

  # adding methods by hand:
  a.MyClass.bar = bar
  a.MyClass.baz = baz

---------
File c.py

  import a
  def foooo(self, a):
      return a * self.foo(4)
  def baaar(self):
      print self.baz('tralala')
  def bazzz(self):
      print 'bzzzzzzzzzz'

  # adding methods more automaticly:
  for name, obj in globals().values():
      setattr(a.MyClass, name, obj)


>  Now why would you want to do that?

It's a good question. As others said it's very probable that some other
solution would be better (e.g. inheritance).

Cheers,
*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From rcdailey at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 16:42:59 2009
From: rcdailey at gmail.com (Robert Dailey)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:42:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to create functors?
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: <5834f36f-b172-4e76-ad90-7056e7097cdd@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 18, 3:40?pm, Chris Rebert  wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 1:32 PM, Robert Dailey wrote:
> > On Aug 18, 3:31?pm, Duncan Booth  wrote:
> >> Robert Dailey  wrote:
> >> > Hello,
>
> >> > I want to simply wrap a function up into an object so it can be called
> >> > with no parameters. The parameters that it would otherwise have taken
> >> > are already filled in. Like so:
>
> >> > ? ? ? print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
> >> > ? ? ? print1()
>
> >> > However, the above code fails with:
>
> >> > ? File "C:\IT\work\distro_test\distribute_radix.py", line 286
> >> > ? ? print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
> >> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?^
> >> > SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>
> >> > How can I get this working?
>
> >> def print1():
> >> ? ? print "Foobar"
>
> >> It looks like in your version of Python "print" isn't a function. It always
> >> helps if you say the exact version you are using in your question as the
> >> exact answer you need may vary.
>
> > I'm using Python 2.6. And using the legacy syntax in the lambda does
> > not work either. I want to avoid using a def if possible. Thanks.
>
> chris at morpheus ~ $ python
> Python 2.6.2 (r262:71600, May 14 2009, 16:34:51)
> [GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Inc. build 5484)] on darwin
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.>>> print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
>
> ? File "", line 1
> ? ? print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax>>> from __future__ import print_function
> >>> print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
> >>> print1()
>
> Foobar
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --http://blog.rebertia.com

I see what you're saying now. However, why am I able to use print as a
function in general-purpose code in my Python 2.6 script, like so:

def SomeFunction():
   print( "Hello World" )

But, I am not able to do this:

SomeFunction = lambda: print( "Hello World" )

??????

Doesn't make sense.


From rcdailey at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 16:45:38 2009
From: rcdailey at gmail.com (Robert Dailey)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:45:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Parallelization in Python 2.6
References: <9d9e7278-d855-4066-b090-46d5060dc051@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<17baaedc-2eeb-4ede-b416-afed3c2b0fc8@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <54899d05-8e9b-4b91-b79d-9839cddfe2d7@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 18, 3:41?pm, Jonathan Gardner 
wrote:
> On Aug 18, 11:19?am, Robert Dailey  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I'm looking for a way to parallelize my python script without using
> > typical threading primitives. For example, C++ has pthreads and TBB to
> > break things into "tasks". I would like to see something like this for
> > python. So, if I have a very linear script:
>
> > doStuff1()
> > doStuff2()
>
> > I can parallelize it easily like so:
>
> > create_task( doStuff1 )
> > create_task( doStuff2 )
>
> > Both of these functions would be called from new threads, and once
> > execution ends the threads would die. I realize this is a simple
> > example and I could create my own classes for this functionality, but
> > I do not want to bother if a solution already exists.
>
> If you haven't heard of the Python GIL, you'll want to find out sooner
> rather than later. Short summary: Python doesn't do threading very
> well.
>
> There are quite a few parallelization solutions out there for Python,
> however. (I don't know what they are off the top of my head, however.)
> The way they work is they have worker processes that can be spread
> across machines. When you want to parallelize a task, you send off a
> function to those worker threads.
>
> There are some serious caveats and problems, not the least of which is
> sharing code between the worker threads and the director, so this
> isn't a great solution.
>
> If you're looking for highly parallelized code, Python may not be the
> right answer. Try something like Erlang or Haskell.

Really, all I'm trying to do is the most trivial type of
parallelization. Take two functions, execute them in parallel. This
type of parallelization is called "embarrassingly parallel", and is
the simplest form. There are no dependencies between the two
functions. They do requires read-only access to shared data, though.
And if they are being spawned as sub-processes this could cause
problems, unless the multiprocess module creates pipelines or other
means to handle this situation.


From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 16:45:50 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:45:50 -0700
Subject: How to create functors?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

Lambda expressions are, I believe, syntactically limited to a single  
expression -- no statements, like 'print' is in Python 2.x.

If you are strongly against just defining a function, you might have to  
use a trick to get around it -- this page  
(http://p-nand-q.com/python/stupid_lambda_tricks.html) has some  
suggestions.

On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:32:55 -0700, Robert Dailey   
wrote:

> On Aug 18, 3:31?pm, Duncan Booth  wrote:
>> Robert Dailey  wrote:
>> > Hello,
>>
>> > I want to simply wrap a function up into an object so it can be called
>> > with no parameters. The parameters that it would otherwise have taken
>> > are already filled in. Like so:
>>
>> > ? ? ? print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
>> > ? ? ? print1()
>>
>> > However, the above code fails with:
>>
>> > ? File "C:\IT\work\distro_test\distribute_radix.py", line 286
>> > ? ? print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
>> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?^
>> > SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>>
>> > How can I get this working?
>>
>> def print1():
>> ? ? print "Foobar"
>>
>> It looks like in your version of Python "print" isn't a function. It  
>> always
>> helps if you say the exact version you are using in your question as the
>> exact answer you need may vary.
>
> I'm using Python 2.6. And using the legacy syntax in the lambda does
> not work either. I want to avoid using a def if possible. Thanks.



-- 
Rami Chowdhury
"Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --  
Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)


From nad at acm.org  Tue Aug 18 16:46:57 2009
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:46:57 -0700
Subject: How to create functors?
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

In article 
,
 Robert Dailey  wrote:
> On Aug 18, 3:31?pm, Duncan Booth  wrote:
> > Robert Dailey  wrote:
> > > Hello,
> >
> > > I want to simply wrap a function up into an object so it can be called
> > > with no parameters. The parameters that it would otherwise have taken
> > > are already filled in. Like so:
> >
> > > ? ? ? print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
> > > ? ? ? print1()
> >
> > > However, the above code fails with:
> >
> > > ? File "C:\IT\work\distro_test\distribute_radix.py", line 286
> > > ? ? print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
> > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?^
> > > SyntaxError: invalid syntax
> >
> > > How can I get this working?
> >
> > def print1():
> > ? ? print "Foobar"
> >
> > It looks like in your version of Python "print" isn't a function. It always
> > helps if you say the exact version you are using in your question as the
> > exact answer you need may vary.
> 
> I'm using Python 2.6. And using the legacy syntax in the lambda does
> not work either. I want to avoid using a def if possible. Thanks.

The problem is that in Python 2 print is a statement, not a function.  
That should work fine in Python 3 where print *is* a function.  In 2.x, 
you can wrap print in a function or use something like:

>>> import sys
>>> print1 = lambda: sys.stdout.write("Foobar\n")
>>> print1()
Foobar

or the pprint library module or various other solutions.

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org



From malaclypse2 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 16:49:34 2009
From: malaclypse2 at gmail.com (Jerry Hill)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:49:34 -0400
Subject: How to create functors?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <16651e80908181349l20efec3do7148c7ef1f2657cb@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 4:27 PM, Robert Dailey wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I want to simply wrap a function up into an object so it can be called
> with no parameters. The parameters that it would otherwise have taken
> are already filled in. Like so:
>
>
> ? ? ?print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
> ? ? ?print1()
>
> However, the above code fails with:
>
> ?File "C:\IT\work\distro_test\distribute_radix.py", line 286
> ? ?print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>
> How can I get this working?

You can't, at least not with that example.  Lambdas are restricted to
a single expression[1]. Print is not an expression, it's a
statement[2].

I'm guessing that your use case is not really in wrapping a print
statement in an anonymous function. Given the first part of your
message, you might find something of use in the functools module,
particularly functools.partial [3].

1: http://docs.python.org/tutorial/controlflow.html#lambda-forms
2: http://docs.python.org/reference/simple_stmts.html
3: http://docs.python.org/library/functools.html#functools.partial

-- 
Jerry


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Tue Aug 18 16:50:27 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:50:27 -0700
Subject: Identifying a class type - bad practice?
In-Reply-To: <5a6e91f5-83c1-42a3-ab8a-082c4d8e840c@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <5a6e91f5-83c1-42a3-ab8a-082c4d8e840c@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908181350x5bbfd8e9qe1b7e1d3c13bf49e@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 10:09 AM, James
Harris wrote:
> I am writing some code to form a tree of nodes of different types. The
> idea is to define one class per node type such as
>
> class node_type_1(node):
> ?
> class node_type_2(node):
> ?
> etc
>
> (Class "node" would hold any common properties).
>
> When walking the tree I need to know what type of node I'm dealing
> with so polymorphism isn't generally useful. The action to be taken
> depends on the node type.

I'm sure it relates to the exact type of tree you're walking and the
calculation you're doing on it, but what is the reason why your code,
which in the abstract sounds like it will vaguely resemble this:

def walk_tree(tree):
    if isinstance(tree, node_type_1):
        #code
        walk_tree(subtree)
    elif isinstance(tree, node_type_2):
        #code
        walk_tree(subtree)
    #etc...

can't be written instead as:

class node_type_1:
    def walk_tree(self):
        #code
        self.subtree.walk()

class node_type_2:
    def walk_tree(self):
        #code
        self.subtree.walk()

#etc

?

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From rcdailey at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 16:51:19 2009
From: rcdailey at gmail.com (Robert Dailey)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:51:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to create functors?
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: <0866bb91-ce18-46f5-a62b-8c6cb14e13d7@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 18, 3:45?pm, "Rami Chowdhury"  wrote:
> Lambda expressions are, I believe, syntactically limited to a single ?
> expression -- no statements, like 'print' is in Python 2.x.
>
> If you are strongly against just defining a function, you might have to ?
> use a trick to get around it -- this page ?
> (http://p-nand-q.com/python/stupid_lambda_tricks.html) has some ?
> suggestions.
>
> On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:32:55 -0700, Robert Dailey  ?
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 18, 3:31?pm, Duncan Booth  wrote:
> >> Robert Dailey  wrote:
> >> > Hello,
>
> >> > I want to simply wrap a function up into an object so it can be called
> >> > with no parameters. The parameters that it would otherwise have taken
> >> > are already filled in. Like so:
>
> >> > ? ? ? print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
> >> > ? ? ? print1()
>
> >> > However, the above code fails with:
>
> >> > ? File "C:\IT\work\distro_test\distribute_radix.py", line 286
> >> > ? ? print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
> >> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?^
> >> > SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>
> >> > How can I get this working?
>
> >> def print1():
> >> ? ? print "Foobar"
>
> >> It looks like in your version of Python "print" isn't a function. It ?
> >> always
> >> helps if you say the exact version you are using in your question as the
> >> exact answer you need may vary.
>
> > I'm using Python 2.6. And using the legacy syntax in the lambda does
> > not work either. I want to avoid using a def if possible. Thanks.
>
> --
> Rami Chowdhury
> "Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" -- ?
> Hanlon's Razor
> 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)

The example I gave earlier is a bit contrived, the real example
fundamentally requires a lambda since I am actually passing in local
variables into the functions the lambda is wrapping. Example:

def MyFunction():
  localVariable = 20
  CreateTask( lambda: SomeOtherFunction( localVariable ) ) # CreateTask
() executes the functor internally

This is more or less like the real scenario I'm working with. There
are other (more personal) reasons why I prefer to avoid 'def' in this
case. I want to keep the functor as central to the code that needs it
as possible to improve code readability.

Thanks for the help everyone. I guess in Python 3.0 the print()
function will not require the import from __future__ to work in this
particular case?


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Tue Aug 18 16:51:26 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 22:51:26 +0200
Subject: How to create functors?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

18-08-2009 o 22:32:55 Robert Dailey  wrote:

> On Aug 18, 3:31?pm, Duncan Booth  wrote:
>> Robert Dailey  wrote:
>> > Hello,
>>
>> > I want to simply wrap a function up into an object so it can be called
>> > with no parameters. The parameters that it would otherwise have taken
>> > are already filled in. Like so:
>>
>> > ? ? ? print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
>> > ? ? ? print1()
>>
>> > However, the above code fails with:
>>
>> > ? File "C:\IT\work\distro_test\distribute_radix.py", line 286
>> > ? ? print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
>> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?^
>> > SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>>
>> > How can I get this working?
>>
>> def print1():
>> ? ? print "Foobar"
>>
>> It looks like in your version of Python "print" isn't a function. It  
>> always
>> helps if you say the exact version you are using in your question as the
>> exact answer you need may vary.
>
> I'm using Python 2.6. And using the legacy syntax in the lambda does
> not work either.

In Python 1.x/2.x 'print' is a keyword-based statement, not a function
-- then you cannot use it in lambda (which in Python is limited to
single expressions, and statements are not allowed in it).

You can try using sys.stdout.write() instead.

> I want to avoid using a def if possible.

But what for? Usualy def is more readable than lambda and it's not worth
to lose readibility just to save a few keystrokes.

Cheers,
*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From rcdailey at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 16:52:21 2009
From: rcdailey at gmail.com (Robert Dailey)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:52:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to create functors?
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: <315f52d5-1e0c-48ab-85fb-e5857aedd3ce@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 18, 3:51?pm, "Jan Kaliszewski"  wrote:
> 18-08-2009 o 22:32:55 Robert Dailey  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 18, 3:31?pm, Duncan Booth  wrote:
> >> Robert Dailey  wrote:
> >> > Hello,
>
> >> > I want to simply wrap a function up into an object so it can be called
> >> > with no parameters. The parameters that it would otherwise have taken
> >> > are already filled in. Like so:
>
> >> > ? ? ? print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
> >> > ? ? ? print1()
>
> >> > However, the above code fails with:
>
> >> > ? File "C:\IT\work\distro_test\distribute_radix.py", line 286
> >> > ? ? print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
> >> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?^
> >> > SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>
> >> > How can I get this working?
>
> >> def print1():
> >> ? ? print "Foobar"
>
> >> It looks like in your version of Python "print" isn't a function. It ?
> >> always
> >> helps if you say the exact version you are using in your question as the
> >> exact answer you need may vary.
>
> > I'm using Python 2.6. And using the legacy syntax in the lambda does
> > not work either.
>
> In Python 1.x/2.x 'print' is a keyword-based statement, not a function
> -- then you cannot use it in lambda (which in Python is limited to
> single expressions, and statements are not allowed in it).
>
> You can try using sys.stdout.write() instead.
>
> > I want to avoid using a def if possible.
>
> But what for? Usualy def is more readable than lambda and it's not worth
> to lose readibility just to save a few keystrokes.
>
> Cheers,
> *j
>
> --
> Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 

I posted a bit earlier than you did. See my previous post. Thanks for
the help.


From invalid at invalid  Tue Aug 18 16:55:19 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 15:55:19 -0500
Subject: How to create functors?
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-18, Robert Dailey  wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I want to simply wrap a function up into an object so it can be called
> with no parameters. The parameters that it would otherwise have taken
> are already filled in. Like so:
>
>
>       print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
>       print1()
>
> However, the above code fails with:
>
>   File "C:\IT\work\distro_test\distribute_radix.py", line 286
>     print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
>                          ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>
> How can I get this working?

Doesn't this do what you want?

    def print1():
        return print(" Foobar" )

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! I want my nose in
                                  at               lights!
                               visi.com            


From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 16:57:54 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:57:54 -0700
Subject: How to create functors?
In-Reply-To: <5834f36f-b172-4e76-ad90-7056e7097cdd@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	
	
	<5834f36f-b172-4e76-ad90-7056e7097cdd@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

> why am I able to use print as a
> function in general-purpose code in my Python 2.6 script

I believe it's because that is parsed as the print statement followed by a  
parenthesized expression.

On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:42:59 -0700, Robert Dailey   
wrote:

> On Aug 18, 3:40?pm, Chris Rebert  wrote:
>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 1:32 PM, Robert Dailey  
>> wrote:
>> > On Aug 18, 3:31?pm, Duncan Booth  wrote:
>> >> Robert Dailey  wrote:
>> >> > Hello,
>>
>> >> > I want to simply wrap a function up into an object so it can be  
>> called
>> >> > with no parameters. The parameters that it would otherwise have  
>> taken
>> >> > are already filled in. Like so:
>>
>> >> > ? ? ? print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
>> >> > ? ? ? print1()
>>
>> >> > However, the above code fails with:
>>
>> >> > ? File "C:\IT\work\distro_test\distribute_radix.py", line 286
>> >> > ? ? print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
>> >> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?^
>> >> > SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>>
>> >> > How can I get this working?
>>
>> >> def print1():
>> >> ? ? print "Foobar"
>>
>> >> It looks like in your version of Python "print" isn't a function. It  
>> always
>> >> helps if you say the exact version you are using in your question as  
>> the
>> >> exact answer you need may vary.
>>
>> > I'm using Python 2.6. And using the legacy syntax in the lambda does
>> > not work either. I want to avoid using a def if possible. Thanks.
>>
>> chris at morpheus ~ $ python
>> Python 2.6.2 (r262:71600, May 14 2009, 16:34:51)
>> [GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Inc. build 5484)] on darwin
>> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more  
>> information.>>> print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
>>
>> ? File "", line 1
>> ? ? print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?^
>> SyntaxError: invalid syntax>>> from __future__ import print_function
>> >>> print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
>> >>> print1()
>>
>> Foobar
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Chris
>> --http://blog.rebertia.com
>
> I see what you're saying now. However, why am I able to use print as a
> function in general-purpose code in my Python 2.6 script, like so:
>
> def SomeFunction():
>    print( "Hello World" )
>
> But, I am not able to do this:
>
> SomeFunction = lambda: print( "Hello World" )
>
> ??????
>
> Doesn't make sense.



-- 
Rami Chowdhury
"Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --  
Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)


From nad at acm.org  Tue Aug 18 17:00:04 2009
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:00:04 -0700
Subject: How to create functors?
References: 
	
	
	
	<5834f36f-b172-4e76-ad90-7056e7097cdd@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

In article 
<5834f36f-b172-4e76-ad90-7056e7097cdd at o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>,
 Robert Dailey  wrote:
> I see what you're saying now. However, why am I able to use print as a
> function in general-purpose code in my Python 2.6 script, like so:
> 
> def SomeFunction():
>    print( "Hello World" )

For the same reason you can do this:

>>> x = ( "Hello World" )
>>> type(x)


-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org



From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Tue Aug 18 17:01:26 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 23:01:26 +0200
Subject: How to create functors?
In-Reply-To: <5834f36f-b172-4e76-ad90-7056e7097cdd@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	
	
	<5834f36f-b172-4e76-ad90-7056e7097cdd@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Dnia 18-08-2009 o 22:42:59 Robert Dailey  napisa?(a):

> I see what you're saying now. However, why am I able to use print as a
> function in general-purpose code in my Python 2.6 script, like so:
>
> def SomeFunction():
>    print( "Hello World" )
>
> But, I am not able to do this:
>
> SomeFunction = lambda: print( "Hello World" )
>
> ??????

Because (unless you do 'from __future__ import print_function' in Py2.6)
it's statement, not a functions. In Python you can put any expression
in parentheses -- it's useful for wraping long lines but changes nothing
semantically (unless you add a comma -- then you create a tuple, even
without parentheses, but it'a another story...).

*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From gu.yakahughes at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 17:02:16 2009
From: gu.yakahughes at gmail.com (KillSwitch)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:02:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Editing a wiki
Message-ID: <62993053-871d-4dd6-96b0-10548ca4ed29@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

Hey guys,
Is it possible to edit a wiki page with python, including logging in
to edit the page, and inserting text into the edit box, etc. I was
thinking maybe python would be the language to do this in, because I
have to iterate through every line in a text file and gather info
about what to enter in the wiki that way, then put that text in a wiki
page. It's sort of a program-documenting program. If it's possible to
do this, I would make a special way of entering comments in the source
files, like maybe --[[##title code here]] and then --[[@@code example
here]] with the two symbols at the beginning of the comment dictating
what to enter where. Thanks for any input.


From rcdailey at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 17:03:51 2009
From: rcdailey at gmail.com (Robert Dailey)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:03:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to create functors?
References: 
	
	
	
	<5834f36f-b172-4e76-ad90-7056e7097cdd@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 18, 4:01?pm, "Jan Kaliszewski"  wrote:
> Dnia 18-08-2009 o 22:42:59 Robert Dailey  napisa?(a):
>
> > I see what you're saying now. However, why am I able to use print as a
> > function in general-purpose code in my Python 2.6 script, like so:
>
> > def SomeFunction():
> > ? ?print( "Hello World" )
>
> > But, I am not able to do this:
>
> > SomeFunction = lambda: print( "Hello World" )
>
> > ??????
>
> Because (unless you do 'from __future__ import print_function' in Py2.6)
> it's statement, not a functions. In Python you can put any expression
> in parentheses -- it's useful for wraping long lines but changes nothing
> semantically (unless you add a comma -- then you create a tuple, even
> without parentheses, but it'a another story...).
>
> *j
>
> --
> Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 

Ah, I see now. I completely fooled myself. This whole time I thought
Python 2.6 was updated to work with both forms of print by default as
a convenience, but still maintain the backwards compatibility.

I understand the situation now. Thanks to everyone for the help.


From lkcl at lkcl.net  Tue Aug 18 17:05:54 2009
From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 21:05:54 +0000
Subject: [ANN] Pyjamas 0.6 Web Widget Set and python-to-javascript Compiler 
	released
Message-ID: 

Pyjamas 0.6 is finally out: many thanks to everyone who has
contributed.  Special thanks to Kees Bos; Bernd, Bernd and Jurgen from
LovelySystems.com; the people who showed an interest in Pyjamas at
EuroPython 2009; and especially to everyone who has helped during the
pre-releases, with testing and bugreports over the past few weeks.
For a full list of contributors, see CREDITS.

Downloads:
---------

http://code.google.com/p/pyjamas/downloads
http://pypi.python.org/pypi/Pyjamas
http://sf.net/projects/pyjamas

Pyjamas
-------

Pyjamas is a port of Google Web Toolkit to Python, and thus enables
the development of Rich Media AJAX applications in Python, with no
need for special browser plugins.  Pyjamas contains a stand-alone
python-to-javascript compiler, and also a Widget Set API that looks
very similar to Desktop Widget Set APIs (such as PyQT4 or PyGTK2).

For more information, see:

    http://pyjs.org
    http://pyjs.org/FAQ.html
    http://pyjs.org/features.html

Known bugs: http://code.google.com/p/pyjamas/issues
            #227, #228, #229, #230 and #232

Pyjamas-Desktop
---------------

Pyjamas runs your application in a Web Browser (as javascript); Pyjamas-Desktop
runs exactly the same python application on the Desktop (as python)

    http://pyjd.org

Release 0.6 of Pyjamas also incorporates Pyjamas-Desktop directly into
the Pyjamas Distribution.  To use Pyjamas-Desktop there are three choices,
with more planned [MacOSX PyObjC; KDE's PyKHTML].

1) - XULRunner

install hulahop and python-xpcom.  hulahop is distributed with
both Debian and Ubuntu; python-xpcom is part of XULRunner and is
also distributed with both Debian and Ubuntu.  Other users should
investigate the installation instructions for python-xpcom and
hulahop for the operating system of their choice on the appropriate
web sites.

GNU/Linux, FreeBSD and other POSIX systems are strongly advised
to use XULRunner for Pyjamas-Desktop: it is the most stable of the
PyJD ports.

2) - PyWebKitGtk

you will need a patched version of pywebkitgtk:
http://code.google.com/p/pywebkitgtk/issues/detail?id=13

you will need a patched version of webkit:
http://github.com/lkcl/webkit/16401.master

Detailed build instructions are available here:
http://wiki.github.com/lkcl/webkit/helping-with-16401master

3) - MSHTML (experimental!)

For Windows users, all that's required, other than installing python
and Internet Explorer, is one further package: Win32 "comtypes".

Win32 "comtypes" can be downloaded here:
* http://sourceforge.net/projects/comtypes/

The MSHTML version primarily works.  Reports using IE8's MSHTML
engine would be appreciated.

Known bugs: the use of Tab to cycle through Keyboard Focus elements
            is ineffective; onkeyup and onkeydown events are unresponsive,
            but oddly onkeypress event handling works.


From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 17:11:23 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:11:23 -0700
Subject: How to create functors?
In-Reply-To: <0866bb91-ce18-46f5-a62b-8c6cb14e13d7@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	
	
	<0866bb91-ce18-46f5-a62b-8c6cb14e13d7@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

> The example I gave earlier is a bit contrived, the real example
> fundamentally requires a lambda since I am actually passing in local
> variables into the functions the lambda is wrapping. Example:
>
> def MyFunction():
>   localVariable = 20
>   CreateTask( lambda: SomeOtherFunction( localVariable ) ) # CreateTask
> () executes the functor internally
>
> This is more or less like the real scenario I'm working with.

You could define a local function ('closure') inside the function:

def MyFunction():
	localVariable = 20
	def UseLocalVariable():
		SomeOtherFunction(localVariable)
	CreateTask(UseLocalVariable)

I would suggest this is much better for readability.

On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:51:19 -0700, Robert Dailey   
wrote:

> On Aug 18, 3:45?pm, "Rami Chowdhury"  wrote:
>> Lambda expressions are, I believe, syntactically limited to a single ?
>> expression -- no statements, like 'print' is in Python 2.x.
>>
>> If you are strongly against just defining a function, you might have to  
>> ?
>> use a trick to get around it -- this page ?
>> (http://p-nand-q.com/python/stupid_lambda_tricks.html) has some ?
>> suggestions.
>>
>> On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:32:55 -0700, Robert Dailey  ?
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Aug 18, 3:31?pm, Duncan Booth  wrote:
>> >> Robert Dailey  wrote:
>> >> > Hello,
>>
>> >> > I want to simply wrap a function up into an object so it can be  
>> called
>> >> > with no parameters. The parameters that it would otherwise have  
>> taken
>> >> > are already filled in. Like so:
>>
>> >> > ? ? ? print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
>> >> > ? ? ? print1()
>>
>> >> > However, the above code fails with:
>>
>> >> > ? File "C:\IT\work\distro_test\distribute_radix.py", line 286
>> >> > ? ? print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
>> >> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?^
>> >> > SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>>
>> >> > How can I get this working?
>>
>> >> def print1():
>> >> ? ? print "Foobar"
>>
>> >> It looks like in your version of Python "print" isn't a function. It  
>> ?
>> >> always
>> >> helps if you say the exact version you are using in your question as  
>> the
>> >> exact answer you need may vary.
>>
>> > I'm using Python 2.6. And using the legacy syntax in the lambda does
>> > not work either. I want to avoid using a def if possible. Thanks.
>>
>> --
>> Rami Chowdhury
>> "Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity"  
>> -- ?
>> Hanlon's Razor
>> 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)
>
> The example I gave earlier is a bit contrived, the real example
> fundamentally requires a lambda since I am actually passing in local
> variables into the functions the lambda is wrapping. Example:
>
> def MyFunction():
>   localVariable = 20
>   CreateTask( lambda: SomeOtherFunction( localVariable ) ) # CreateTask
> () executes the functor internally
>
> This is more or less like the real scenario I'm working with. There
> are other (more personal) reasons why I prefer to avoid 'def' in this
> case. I want to keep the functor as central to the code that needs it
> as possible to improve code readability.
>
> Thanks for the help everyone. I guess in Python 3.0 the print()
> function will not require the import from __future__ to work in this
> particular case?



-- 
Rami Chowdhury
"Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --  
Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)


From david.birdsong at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 17:11:25 2009
From: david.birdsong at gmail.com (birdsong)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:11:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: basic thread question
References: 
Message-ID: <07fb2a97-d720-4dcd-9155-9237c1802091@i8g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 18, 1:10?pm, Derek Martin  wrote:
> I have some simple threaded code... ?If I run this
> with an arg of 1 (start one thread), it pegs one cpu, as I would
> expect. ?If I run it with an arg of 2 (start 2 threads), it uses both
> CPUs, but utilization of both is less than 50%. ?Can anyone explain
> why? ?
>
> I do not pretend it's impeccable code, and I'm not looking for a
> critiqe of the code per se, excepting the case where what I've written
> is actually *wrong*. I hacked this together in a couple of minutes,
> with the intent of pegging my CPUs. ?Performance with two threads is
> actually *worse* than with one, which is highly unintuitive. ?I can
> accomplish my goal very easily with bash, but I still want to
> understand what's going on here...
>
> The OS is Linux 2.6.24, on a Ubuntu base. ?Here's the code:
>
> Thanks
>
> -=-=-=-=-
>
> #!/usr/bin/python
>
> import thread, sys, time
>
> def busy(thread):
> ? ? x=0
> ? ? while True:
> ? ? ? ? x+=1
>
> if __name__ == '__main__':
> ? ? try:
> ? ? ? ? cpus = int(sys.argv[1])
> ? ? except ValueError:
> ? ? ? ? cpus = 1
> ? ? print "cpus = %d, argv[1] = %s\n" % (cpus, sys.argv[1])
> ? ? i=0
> ? ? thread_list = []
> ? ? while i < cpus:
> ? ? ? ? x = thread.start_new_thread(busy, (i,))
> ? ? ? ? thread_list.append(x)
> ? ? ? ? i+=1
> ? ? while True:
> ? ? ? ? pass
>
> --
> Derek D. Martinhttp://www.pizzashack.org/
> GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D
>
> ?application_pgp-signature_part
> < 1KViewDownload

watch this and all your findings will be explained: http://blip.tv/file/2232410

this talk marked a pivotal moment in my understanding of python
threads and signal handling in threaded programs.


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Tue Aug 18 17:11:34 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 23:11:34 +0200
Subject: Inheriting dictionary
In-Reply-To: 
References: <95736695-29b5-4185-8764-8eca140b76d2@e18g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

18-08-2009 o 22:27:41 Nat Williams  wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 2:44 PM, Pavel Panchekha  
> wrote:
>
>> I want a dictionary that will transparently "inherit" from a parent
>> dictionary. So, for example:
>>
>> """
>> a = InheritDict({1: "one", 2: "two", 4: "four"})
>> b = InheritDict({3: "three", 4: "foobar"}, inherit_from=a)
>>
>> a[1] # "one"
>> a[4] # "four"
>> b[1] # "one"
>> b[3] # "three"
>> b[4] # "foobar"
>> """
>>
>> I've written something like this in Python already, but I'm wondering
>> if something like this already exists, preferably written in C, for
>> speed.
>
>
> Why complicate this with a custom object?  Just use regular dicts and  
> make b a copy of a.
>
> a = {1: 'one', 2: 'two', 4: 'four'}
> b = dict(a)
> b[3] = 'three'
> b[4] = 'foobar'

Because, as I understand Pavel's intent, it has to work dynamically
(e.g. changes in 'a' reflect in behaviour of 'b'), and obviously not
only for such trivial examples like above.

*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From sajmikins at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 17:13:02 2009
From: sajmikins at gmail.com (Simon Forman)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:13:02 -0400
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
In-Reply-To: <4A8ADF6D.2030405@sequans.com>
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<90cd2c33-5f2d-4a29-b267-67f233ae2946@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
	<4A8ADF6D.2030405@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <50f98a4c0908181413s69648332i6dea4f927e605f6@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Jean-Michel
Pichavant wrote:
> Steve Holden wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Robert Dailey:
>>>>
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>>
>>> It's a figure of speech. And besides, why would I want programming
>>> advice from a woman? lol. Thanks for the help.
>>>
>>
>> Sorry, Robert, simply not acceptable. Whether designed to be funny or
>> not it's the kind of inane remark I would be really happy never to see
>> again.
>>
>> The problem is that we can't just "let these things go by" all the
>> time (even though we aren't discussing a major crime here). If we do
>> that it encourages (at best) an atmosphere of complacency and a
>> feeling that it's OK to demean people in Python forums. I'd really
>> like to see those *not* get a hold.
>>
>> regards
>> ?Steve
>>
>
> Did you read the original post (this is an old one) ? Because quoting a joke
> out of its context is totally unfair.

Unfair to whom?

In any event, the context here seems to be a mixture of Guy Fawkes
trivia and general disapproval of sexist remarks on c.l.p, so I don't
see this comment as "out of context".

(For the record, I use "guys" to refer to groups of people regardless
of their gender.  I also use "dude" to refer to people regardless of
their gender.  The only person who has taken offense to this is my
mom.  "I am not a dude."  But she means she's not a cowboy, not not a
male.) (Uh, she is, in fact, female.)

> Anyway the hysteria that is surrounding this thread is just amazing. I'm
> waiting for more.

I don't feel hysterical, only appalled.

The OP used a common slang term, someone mentioned that the term
implies a group of males when in fact the group being addressed is
mixed gender, and the OP replied that it was "just a figure of
speech".

So far, so good. But then the OP made a sexist "joke".  He was called
on it and issued a rather gracious apology, but then he dropped
another sexist turd right in the middle of his otherwise model
apology.

I won't speak for anyone else, but I was appalled.


Sexism, racism, homophobia, religious intolerance, etc., all stem from
a fundamental forgetfulness of our Unity in God (as I would put it)
and this is perhaps the single greatest cause of human misery.

We are one family.


From deets at nospam.web.de  Tue Aug 18 17:18:36 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 23:18:36 +0200
Subject: Editing a wiki
In-Reply-To: <62993053-871d-4dd6-96b0-10548ca4ed29@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <62993053-871d-4dd6-96b0-10548ca4ed29@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7f0k5cF2i58otU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

KillSwitch schrieb:
> Hey guys,
> Is it possible to edit a wiki page with python, including logging in
> to edit the page, and inserting text into the edit box, etc. I was
> thinking maybe python would be the language to do this in, because I
> have to iterate through every line in a text file and gather info
> about what to enter in the wiki that way, then put that text in a wiki
> page. It's sort of a program-documenting program. If it's possible to
> do this, I would make a special way of entering comments in the source
> files, like maybe --[[##title code here]] and then --[[@@code example
> here]] with the two symbols at the beginning of the comment dictating
> what to enter where. Thanks for any input.

Take a look at mechanize, which is a python web-client impostor thingy - 
it should be easy to use for this purpose.


Diez


From pavpanchekha at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 17:19:05 2009
From: pavpanchekha at gmail.com (Pavel Panchekha)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:19:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Inheriting dictionary
References: <95736695-29b5-4185-8764-8eca140b76d2@e18g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	 
	
Message-ID: <30490e9b-7f8d-4adc-afc6-0c1d5e04cbac@f33g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 18, 5:11?pm, "Jan Kaliszewski"  wrote:
> 18-08-2009 o 22:27:41 Nat Williams  wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 2:44 PM, Pavel Panchekha ?
> > wrote:
>
> >> I want a dictionary that will transparently "inherit" from a parent
> >> dictionary. So, for example:
>
> >> """
> >> a = InheritDict({1: "one", 2: "two", 4: "four"})
> >> b = InheritDict({3: "three", 4: "foobar"}, inherit_from=a)
>
> >> a[1] # "one"
> >> a[4] # "four"
> >> b[1] # "one"
> >> b[3] # "three"
> >> b[4] # "foobar"
> >> """
>
> >> I've written something like this in Python already, but I'm wondering
> >> if something like this already exists, preferably written in C, for
> >> speed.
>
> > Why complicate this with a custom object? ?Just use regular dicts and ?
> > make b a copy of a.
>
> > a = {1: 'one', 2: 'two', 4: 'four'}
> > b = dict(a)
> > b[3] = 'three'
> > b[4] = 'foobar'
>
> Because, as I understand Pavel's intent, it has to work dynamically
> (e.g. changes in 'a' reflect in behaviour of 'b'), and obviously not
> only for such trivial examples like above.
>
> *j
>
> --
> Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 

That is indeed the point.


From leonhard.vogt at gmx.ch  Tue Aug 18 17:19:26 2009
From: leonhard.vogt at gmx.ch (Leonhard Vogt)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 23:19:26 +0200
Subject: How to create functors?
In-Reply-To: <0866bb91-ce18-46f5-a62b-8c6cb14e13d7@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	
	
	<0866bb91-ce18-46f5-a62b-8c6cb14e13d7@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <36b62$4a8b1adf$544b15b8$17140@news.hispeed.ch>


> The example I gave earlier is a bit contrived, the real example
> fundamentally requires a lambda since I am actually passing in local
> variables into the functions the lambda is wrapping. Example:
> 
> def MyFunction():
>   localVariable = 20
>   CreateTask( lambda: SomeOtherFunction( localVariable ) ) # CreateTask
> () executes the functor internally
> 
> This is more or less like the real scenario I'm working with. There
> are other (more personal) reasons why I prefer to avoid 'def' in this
> case. I want to keep the functor as central to the code that needs it
> as possible to improve code readability.
> 

what about

def MyFunction():
     localVariable = 20
     def wrapper():
         return SomeOtherFunction( localVariable )
     CreateTask( wrapper )

the wrapper is only visible inside MyFunction.

Leonhard


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Aug 18 17:19:39 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 07:19:39 +1000
Subject: Code formatting question: conditional expression
References: 
Message-ID: <87skfohlas.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

John Posner  writes:

> Is there any consensus on how to format a conditional expression that
> is too long for one line? How about this:
>
>  excessblk = (Block(total - P.BASE, srccol, carry_button_suppress=True)
>               if total > P.BASE else
>               None)
>
> The above format separates the values from the if-then-else machinery.
> Too many lines?

Too much indentation, and worse, indentation that changes based on a
distractingly irrelevant quantity: the length of the first line. I
prefer::

    excessblk = (
        Block(total - P.BASE, srccol, carry_button_suppress=True)
        if total > P.BASE else None)

> Would it be better to line up "if" and "else" vertically? ...

If the expression assigned in the ?else? branch were also quite long,
I'd say yes::

    excessblk = (
        Block(total - P.BASE, srccol, carry_button_suppress=True)
        if total > P.BASE
        else Block(total, srccol, carry_button_suppress=False))

-- 
 \          ?Friendship is born at that moment when one person says to |
  `\    another, ?What! You too? I thought I was the only one!?? ?C.S. |
_o__)                                                            Lewis |
Ben Finney


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Aug 18 17:24:35 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 07:24:35 +1000
Subject: Code formatting question: conditional expression
References: 
	<7evr1pF2i4mouU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <87ocqchl2k.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

"Diez B. Roggisch"  writes:

> excessblk = None
> if total > P.BASE:
>     excessblk = ...
>
> You don't lose any vertical space,

I don't see vertical space as such a scarce resource; we don't have an
imminent newline shortage, to my knowledge. I value it far lower than,
say, local readability.

> and it's much more readable IMHO.

On the basis of local readability, then, I agree that a multi-line
conditional expression is far less quickly comprehensible than a normal
multi-line ?if? statement. Assigning the default value of ?None? first
(if that's the default) is also good style IMO.

-- 
 \        ?Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?? ?Wuh, I think |
  `\   so, Brain, but wouldn't anything lose its flavor on the bedpost |
_o__)                               overnight?? ?_Pinky and The Brain_ |
Ben Finney


From deets at nospam.web.de  Tue Aug 18 17:24:38 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 23:24:38 +0200
Subject: How to create functors?
In-Reply-To: <0866bb91-ce18-46f5-a62b-8c6cb14e13d7@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	
	
	<0866bb91-ce18-46f5-a62b-8c6cb14e13d7@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7f0kgmF2iioslU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

> The example I gave earlier is a bit contrived, the real example
> fundamentally requires a lambda since I am actually passing in local
> variables into the functions the lambda is wrapping. Example:


funcs = []

for i in xrange(10):

    def f(i=i):
        print i

    funcs.append(f)

for f in funcs:
    f()


> This is more or less like the real scenario I'm working with. There
> are other (more personal) reasons why I prefer to avoid 'def' in this
> case. I want to keep the functor as central to the code that needs it
> as possible to improve code readability.

Didn't you say the other day you came from C++? Given the galactic 
amount of hoops to jump through that language has to offer, typing

   def f

instead of the even longe

   lambda

strikes me as rather peculiar.

Diez


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Tue Aug 18 17:30:19 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 23:30:19 +0200
Subject: How to create functors?
In-Reply-To: <0866bb91-ce18-46f5-a62b-8c6cb14e13d7@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	
	
	<0866bb91-ce18-46f5-a62b-8c6cb14e13d7@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Dnia 18-08-2009 o 22:51:19 Robert Dailey  napisa?(a):

> The example I gave earlier is a bit contrived, the real example
> fundamentally requires a lambda since I am actually passing in local
> variables into the functions the lambda is wrapping. Example:
>
> def MyFunction():
>   localVariable = 20
>   CreateTask( lambda: SomeOtherFunction( localVariable ) ) # CreateTask
> () executes the functor internally

Lambda in Python is a sintactic sugar for some simple situations. But you
*always* can replace it with def, e.g.:

  def MyFunction():

      localVariable = 20
      def TaskFunction():
          SomeOtherFunction(localVariable)

      CreateTask(TaskFunction)

If we say about You can also use functools.partial:

  import functools

  def MyFunction():

      localVariable = 20
      CreateTask(functools.partial(SomeOtherFunction, localVariable)

...which (especially) makes sense if passed function is supposed to be
callend many times.

> This is more or less like the real scenario I'm working with. There
> are other (more personal) reasons why I prefer to avoid 'def' in this
> case. I want to keep the functor as central to the code that needs it
> as possible to improve code readability.

IMHO def is mostly more readable (see my previous mail...).

> Thanks for the help everyone. I guess in Python 3.0 the print()
> function will not require the import from __future__ to work in this
> particular case?

Print as a function is a standard feature of Py 3.x so it doesn't
require it (see: http://docs.python.org/3.1/whatsnew/3.0.html ).

Regards,
*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Tue Aug 18 17:30:22 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:30:22 -0700
Subject: Editing a wiki
In-Reply-To: <62993053-871d-4dd6-96b0-10548ca4ed29@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <62993053-871d-4dd6-96b0-10548ca4ed29@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908181430k7b36ec3fv4248865dbd0ae954@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 2:02 PM, KillSwitch wrote:
> Hey guys,
> Is it possible to edit a wiki page with python, including logging in
> to edit the page, and inserting text into the edit box, etc.

Depends on the wiki. For Mediawiki, yes: http://pywikipediabot.sourceforge.net/

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From invalid at invalid  Tue Aug 18 17:31:58 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:31:58 -0500
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<90cd2c33-5f2d-4a29-b267-67f233ae2946@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
	<4A8ADF6D.2030405@sequans.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-18, Simon Forman  wrote:

> Sexism, racism, homophobia, religious intolerance, etc., all
> stem from a fundamental forgetfulness of our Unity in God (as
> I would put it) and this is perhaps the single greatest cause
> of human misery.

You mean the single greatest cause of human misery isn't
Microsoft Windows?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! What I want to find
                                  at               out is -- do parrots know
                               visi.com            much about Astro-Turf?


From paul at boddie.org.uk  Tue Aug 18 17:32:11 2009
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:32:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Editing a wiki
References: <62993053-871d-4dd6-96b0-10548ca4ed29@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On 18 Aug, 23:02, KillSwitch  wrote:
> Hey guys,
> Is it possible to edit a wiki page with python, including logging in
> to edit the page, and inserting text into the edit box, etc. I was
> thinking maybe python would be the language to do this in, because I
> have to iterate through every line in a text file and gather info
> about what to enter in the wiki that way, then put that text in a wiki
> page.

What you seem to want is a way of interacting with Web forms, and
there are various Python client libraries which do this:

http://wiki.python.org/moin/WebClientProgramming

However, see below.

>       It's sort of a program-documenting program. If it's possible to
> do this, I would make a special way of entering comments in the source
> files, like maybe --[[##title code here]] and then --[[@@code example
> here]] with the two symbols at the beginning of the comment dictating
> what to enter where. Thanks for any input.

Generally, you have to be careful interacting with Web sites in an
automated fashion: Wiki sites in particular often have measures in
place to deter "robots" and behaviour which looks like spamming. If
the Wiki is under your control, you'd be better off uploading content
via the data store (such as the filesystem for MoinMoin and some other
Wiki solutions) or via specific mechanisms provided for administration
of the Wiki.

Paul


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Aug 18 17:39:13 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 07:39:13 +1000
Subject: Code formatting question: conditional expression
References: 
	
Message-ID: <87k510hke6.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

John Posner  writes:

> > excessblk = None
> > if total > P.BASE:
> >     excessblk = ...
> >
[?]

> But doesn't it violate the DRY principle? The token "excessblk"
> appears twice instead of once.

No, the DRY principle 
doesn't speak against assigning two *different* values in two
*different* circumstances. That's not duplication, and doesn't risk
contradiction. DRY speaks against repeating the same *meaning* in two
different places.

Because this concept is expressed in natural language and not a
programming language, and because we don't speak in a language under the
same principles we espouse for programming, there are multiple terms
used for this concept :-)

Another term which makes the point slightly more sharply is SPOT: there
should be a Single Point Of Truth for each fact in the overall system.

-- 
 \          ?What I have to do is see, at any rate, that I do not lend |
  `\      myself to the wrong which I condemn.? ?Henry Thoreau, _Civil |
_o__)                                                    Disobedience_ |
Ben Finney


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Tue Aug 18 17:41:02 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 23:41:02 +0200
Subject: basic thread question
In-Reply-To: <20090818201015.GP20434@dragontoe.org>
References: <20090818201015.GP20434@dragontoe.org>
Message-ID: 

18-08-2009 o 22:10:15 Derek Martin  wrote:

> I have some simple threaded code...  If I run this
> with an arg of 1 (start one thread), it pegs one cpu, as I would
> expect.  If I run it with an arg of 2 (start 2 threads), it uses both
> CPUs, but utilization of both is less than 50%.  Can anyone explain
> why?
>
> I do not pretend it's impeccable code, and I'm not looking for a
> critiqe of the code per se, excepting the case where what I've written
> is actually *wrong*. I hacked this together in a couple of minutes,
> with the intent of pegging my CPUs.  Performance with two threads is
> actually *worse* than with one, which is highly unintuitive.  I can
> accomplish my goal very easily with bash, but I still want to
> understand what's going on here...
>
> The OS is Linux 2.6.24, on a Ubuntu base.  Here's the code:

Python threads can't benefit from multiple processors (because of GIL,
see: http://docs.python.org/glossary.html#term-global-interpreter-lock).

'multiprocessing' module is what you need:

http://docs.python.org/library/multiprocessing.html

Cheers,
*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Aug 18 17:42:40 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 07:42:40 +1000
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<90cd2c33-5f2d-4a29-b267-67f233ae2946@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <87fxbohk8f.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Jean-Michel Pichavant  writes:

> Anyway the hysteria that is surrounding this thread is just amazing.

If the calm reproach that has been the maximum response so far seems
like ?hysteria? to you, I can only conclude you have only been using the
internet for a few hours.

-- 
 \          ?The fact that I have no remedy for all the sorrows of the |
  `\     world is no reason for my accepting yours. It simply supports |
_o__)  the strong probability that yours is a fake.? ?Henry L. Mencken |
Ben Finney


From rcdailey at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 17:50:22 2009
From: rcdailey at gmail.com (Robert Dailey)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:50:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to create functors?
References: 
	
	
	
	<0866bb91-ce18-46f5-a62b-8c6cb14e13d7@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 18, 4:30?pm, "Jan Kaliszewski"  wrote:
> Lambda in Python is a sintactic sugar for some simple situations. But you
> *always* can replace it with def, e.g.:
>
> ? def MyFunction():
>
> ? ? ? localVariable = 20
> ? ? ? def TaskFunction():
> ? ? ? ? ? SomeOtherFunction(localVariable)
>
> ? ? ? CreateTask(TaskFunction)
>
> If we say about You can also use functools.partial:
>
> ? import functools
>
> ? def MyFunction():
>
> ? ? ? localVariable = 20
> ? ? ? CreateTask(functools.partial(SomeOtherFunction, localVariable)
>
> ...which (especially) makes sense if passed function is supposed to be
> callend many times.

Good point, I'm too used to C++ (Can't define functions in local
scope). I never thought of that. In C++ I use boost::bind() fairly
extensively and I carry over those habits to python.

>
> IMHO def is mostly more readable (see my previous mail...).
>
> Print as a function is a standard feature of Py 3.x so it doesn't
> require it (see:http://docs.python.org/3.1/whatsnew/3.0.html).

Thanks for the info.


From erik1vandamme at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 18:06:50 2009
From: erik1vandamme at gmail.com (Erik Vandamme)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 15:06:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Setuptools - help!
References: 
	
Message-ID: <77a95cac-a059-4501-917a-e87157511912@p36g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 7, 9:17?am, Robert Kern  wrote:
> On 2009-08-06 18:04, Peter Chant wrote:
>
>
>
> > Chaps,
>
> > any ideas, I'm floundering - I don't quite get it. ?I have the following
> > files, setup.py and main.py in a directory pphoto:
>
> > # more setup.py
> > from setuptools import setup, find_packages
> > setup(
> > ? ? ?name = "Pphoto",
> > ? ? ?version = "0.1",
> > ? ? ?packages = find_packages(),
>
> > ? ? ?# other arguments here...
> > ? ? ?entry_points = {'console_scripts': ['foo = pphoto.main:HelloWorld',]}
>
> > )
>
> > bash-3.1# more main.py
>
> > def HelloWorld():
> > ? ? ?print "Hello World!"
>
> > print "Odd world"
>
> >> From various websites that should produce a script foo that runs HelloWorld.
> > It does produce a script that simply crashes.
>
> > bash-3.1# foo
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> > ? ?File "/usr/bin/foo", line 8, in
> > ? ? ?load_entry_point('Pphoto==0.1', 'console_scripts', 'foo')()
> > ? ?File "build/bdist.linux-i686/egg/pkg_resources.py", line 277, in
> > load_entry_point
> > ? ?File "build/bdist.linux-i686/egg/pkg_resources.py", line 2098, in
> > load_entry_point
> > ? ?File "build/bdist.linux-i686/egg/pkg_resources.py", line 1831, in load
> > ImportError: No module named pphoto.main
> > bash-3.1#
>
> > Note, doing this as root as it seems not to do anything usefull at all if I
> > run python setup develop as a user.
>
> > Any ideas? ?I must be missing something fundamental?
>
> You need to put main.py into the pphoto package.
>
> $ mkdir pphoto/
> $ mv main.py pphoto/
> $ touch pphoto/__init__.py
>
> --
> Robert Kern
>
> "I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
> ? that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
> ? an underlying truth."
> ? ?-- Umberto Eco
erik at erik-d2c:~/calibre-0.6.7$ mv main.py pphoto/
mv: cannot stat `main.py': No such file or directory
-------------------------------------
there is no main.py in the main calibre folder and there is 5 of them
in the subfolders?????


From sajmikins at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 18:08:11 2009
From: sajmikins at gmail.com (Simon Forman)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 15:08:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Inheriting dictionary
References: <95736695-29b5-4185-8764-8eca140b76d2@e18g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2fe6d216-1e8f-4de1-8c36-d4ee11bb7233@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 18, 3:44?pm, Pavel Panchekha  wrote:
> I want a dictionary that will transparently "inherit" from a parent
> dictionary. So, for example:
>
> """
> a = InheritDict({1: "one", 2: "two", 4: "four"})
> b = InheritDict({3: "three", 4: "foobar"}, inherit_from=a)
>
> a[1] # "one"
> a[4] # "four"
> b[1] # "one"
> b[3] # "three"
> b[4] # "foobar"
> """
>
> I've written something like this in Python already, but I'm wondering
> if something like this already exists, preferably written in C, for
> speed.


I would consider something like the following:


a = {1: "one", 2: "two", 4: "four"}
b = {3: "three", 4: "foobar"}


from functools import partial


def getter(first, second, key):
    try:
        return first(key)
    except KeyError:
        return second(key)


f = partial(getter, b.__getitem__, a.__getitem__)


# Or, if you know you'll be getting a lot of KeyErrors, you
# can use get() instead of __getitem__().

def getter1(first, second, key, sentinel=None):
    item = first(key, sentinel)
    if item is sentinel:
        item = second(key)
    return item

g = partial(getter1, b.get, a.__getitem__)


HTH,
~Simon


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 18:14:42 2009
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 15:14:42 -0700
Subject: Setuptools - help!
In-Reply-To: <77a95cac-a059-4501-917a-e87157511912@p36g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
References: 	
	<77a95cac-a059-4501-917a-e87157511912@p36g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-18 15:06 PM, Erik Vandamme wrote:
> On Aug 7, 9:17 am, Robert Kern  wrote:
>> On 2009-08-06 18:04, Peter Chant wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Chaps,
>>
>>> any ideas, I'm floundering - I don't quite get it.  I have the following
>>> files, setup.py and main.py in a directory pphoto:
>>
>>> # more setup.py
>>> from setuptools import setup, find_packages
>>> setup(
>>>       name = "Pphoto",
>>>       version = "0.1",
>>>       packages = find_packages(),
>>
>>>       # other arguments here...
>>>       entry_points = {'console_scripts': ['foo = pphoto.main:HelloWorld',]}
>>
>>> )
>>
>>> bash-3.1# more main.py
>>
>>> def HelloWorld():
>>>       print "Hello World!"
>>
>>> print "Odd world"
>>
>>>>  From various websites that should produce a script foo that runs HelloWorld.
>>> It does produce a script that simply crashes.
>>
>>> bash-3.1# foo
>>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>>     File "/usr/bin/foo", line 8, in
>>>       load_entry_point('Pphoto==0.1', 'console_scripts', 'foo')()
>>>     File "build/bdist.linux-i686/egg/pkg_resources.py", line 277, in
>>> load_entry_point
>>>     File "build/bdist.linux-i686/egg/pkg_resources.py", line 2098, in
>>> load_entry_point
>>>     File "build/bdist.linux-i686/egg/pkg_resources.py", line 1831, in load
>>> ImportError: No module named pphoto.main
>>> bash-3.1#
>>
>>> Note, doing this as root as it seems not to do anything usefull at all if I
>>> run python setup develop as a user.
>>
>>> Any ideas?  I must be missing something fundamental?
>>
>> You need to put main.py into the pphoto package.
>>
>> $ mkdir pphoto/
>> $ mv main.py pphoto/
>> $ touch pphoto/__init__.py
>>
>> --
>> Robert Kern
>>
>> "I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
>>    that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
>>    an underlying truth."
>>     -- Umberto Eco
> erik at erik-d2c:~/calibre-0.6.7$ mv main.py pphoto/
> mv: cannot stat `main.py': No such file or directory
> -------------------------------------
> there is no main.py in the main calibre folder and there is 5 of them
> in the subfolders?????

I was helping Peter Chant with his problem. You have a different problem. Why 
are you trying to follow my advice verbatim for a completely different package? 
What problem are you seeing?

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From code at pizzashack.org  Tue Aug 18 18:18:54 2009
From: code at pizzashack.org (Derek Martin)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:18:54 -0500
Subject: basic thread question
In-Reply-To: <20090818201015.GP20434@dragontoe.org>
References: <20090818201015.GP20434@dragontoe.org>
Message-ID: <20090818221854.GQ20434@dragontoe.org>

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 03:10:15PM -0500, Derek Martin wrote:
> I have some simple threaded code...  If I run this
> with an arg of 1 (start one thread), it pegs one cpu, as I would
> expect.  If I run it with an arg of 2 (start 2 threads), it uses both
> CPUs, but utilization of both is less than 50%.  Can anyone explain
> why?  
 
Ah, searching while waiting for an answer (the e-mail gateway is a bit
slow, it seems...) I discovered that the GIL is the culprate.
Evidently this question comes up a lot.  It would probably save a lot
of time on the part of those who answer questions here, as well as
those implementing solutions in Python, if whoever is maintaining the
docs these days would put a blurb about this in the docs in big bold
letters...  Concurrency being perhaps the primary reason to use
threading, essentially it means that Python is not useful for the
sorts of problems that one would be inclined to solve they way my code
works (or rather, was meant to).  It would be very helpful to know
that *before* one tried to implement a solution that way... especially
for solutions significantly less trivial than mine. ;-)

Thanks

-- 
Derek D. Martin
http://www.pizzashack.org/
GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D

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From digitalxero at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 18:21:26 2009
From: digitalxero at gmail.com (Dj Gilcrease)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:21:26 -0600
Subject: [Python-Dev] Mercurial migration: help needed
In-Reply-To: <4A8A6256.1030009@v.loewis.de>
References: <4A8A6256.1030009@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 2:12 AM, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote:
> The second item is line conversion hooks. Dj Gilcrease has posted a
> solution which he considers a hack himself. Mark Hammond has also
> volunteered, but it seems some volunteer needs to be "in charge",
> keeping track of a proposed solution until everybody agrees that it
> is a good solution. It may be that two solutions are necessary: a
> short-term one, that operates as a hook and has limitations, and
> a long-term one, that improves the hook system of Mercurial to
> implement the proper functionality (which then might get shipped
> with Mercurial in a cross-platform manner).


My solution is a hack because the hooks in Mercurial need to be
modified to support it properly, I would be happy to help work on this
as it is a situation I run into all the time in my own projects. I can
never seem to get all the developers to enable the hooks, and one of
them always commits with improper line endings =P


From markscottwright at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 18:24:20 2009
From: markscottwright at gmail.com (markscottwright)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 15:24:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How do I convert an iterator over bytes into a str?
Message-ID: <3e3d2ebd-df8a-42a8-9420-0439a965a0d5@v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

This does what I expected:
    In [6]: list(iter([1,2,3,4,5]))
    Out[6]: [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

But this appears to be doing a __repr__ rather than making me a nice
string:
   In [7]: str(iter("four score and seven years ago"))
   Out[7]: ''

What's the correct way to turn an iterator over bytes into a string?
This works, but, ewww:
    In [8]: "".join(iter("four score and seven years ago"))
    Out[8]: 'four score and seven years ago'


From emile at fenx.com  Tue Aug 18 18:39:27 2009
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 15:39:27 -0700
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>	<90cd2c33-5f2d-4a29-b267-67f233ae2946@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>	<4A8ADF6D.2030405@sequans.com>	
	
Message-ID: 

On 8/18/2009 2:31 PM Unknown said...

> You mean the single greatest cause of human misery isn't
> Microsoft Windows?

Either that or users...

Sick-of-both-today-ly y'rs,

Emile




From davidshais at googlemail.com  Tue Aug 18 18:47:09 2009
From: davidshais at googlemail.com (David)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 15:47:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Scope and classes
Message-ID: 

Hi all,

I'm trying to understand how scopes work within a class definition.
I'll quickly illustrate with an example. Say I had the following class
definition:

class Abc:
    message = 'Hello World'

    def print_message(self):
        print message

>>> instance = Abc()
>>> instance.print_message()
NameError: global name 'message' not defined

My question is, why? message is not defined in print_message, but it
is defined in the enclosing scope (the class)?

Thanks!


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Aug 18 18:54:13 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 23:54:13 +0100
Subject: How do I convert an iterator over bytes into a str?
In-Reply-To: <3e3d2ebd-df8a-42a8-9420-0439a965a0d5@v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
References: <3e3d2ebd-df8a-42a8-9420-0439a965a0d5@v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

markscottwright wrote:
> This does what I expected:
>     In [6]: list(iter([1,2,3,4,5]))
>     Out[6]: [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
> 
> But this appears to be doing a __repr__ rather than making me a nice
> string:
>    In [7]: str(iter("four score and seven years ago"))
>    Out[7]: ''
> 
> What's the correct way to turn an iterator over bytes into a string?
> This works, but, ewww:
>     In [8]: "".join(iter("four score and seven years ago"))
>     Out[8]: 'four score and seven years ago'
You've started with a string.
 >>> type("four score and seven years ago")


-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From olivier.anospamrnospamnnospamanospamenospamz at affaires.net  Tue Aug 18 19:03:30 2009
From: olivier.anospamrnospamnnospamanospamenospamz at affaires.net (Ludo)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 01:03:30 +0200
Subject: Read C++ enum in python
Message-ID: <4a8b3342$0$25403$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

Hello,

I work in a very large project where we have C++ packages and pieces of 
python code.

I've been googleing for days but what I find seems really too 
complicated for what I want to do.

My business is, in python, to read enum definitions provided by the 
header file of an c++ package.
Of course I could open the .h file, read the enum and transcode it by 
hand into a .py file but the package is regularly updated and thus is 
the enum.

My question is then simple : do we have :
	- either a simple way in python to read the .h file, retrieve the c++ 
enum and provide an access to it in my python script
	- either a simple tool (in a long-term it would be automatically run 
when the c++ package is compiled) generating from the .h file a .py file 
containing the python definition of the enums ?

Thank you for any suggestion.


From atulskulkarni at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 19:06:12 2009
From: atulskulkarni at gmail.com (Atul.)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:06:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python on the web, how to?
Message-ID: 

Hello All,

Needless to say I am new to python and web programming. I am looking
for a quick Python-101 course / tutorial for "using python to
implement dynamic content on web" under some web server. Any pointers
what should I be reading?

Regards,
Atul.


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Tue Aug 18 19:16:07 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:16:07 -0700
Subject: Scope and classes
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908181616y41cab4eah13769e75d59a505d@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 3:47 PM, David wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm trying to understand how scopes work within a class definition.
> I'll quickly illustrate with an example. Say I had the following class
> definition:
>
> class Abc:
> ? ?message = 'Hello World'
>
> ? ?def print_message(self):
> ? ? ? ?print message
>
>>>> instance = Abc()
>>>> instance.print_message()
> NameError: global name 'message' not defined
>
> My question is, why? message is not defined in print_message, but it
> is defined in the enclosing scope (the class)?

A class' scope is never consulted when resolving variable names in its methods.

The scopes consulted are roughly (and in this order):
1. Local variable scope (i.e. of the current function/method)
2. Enclosing functions (if you have functions nested inside other functions)
3. Globals (i.e. module-level variables)
3. Builtins (i.e. the built-in functions and methods, such as len())

To access class-level variables from within instance methods of the
class, you have 2 options:
A. Use the class name, i.e. Abc.message
B. Reference the class indirectly, i.e. self.__class__.message

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From wwn1 at sfu.ca  Tue Aug 18 19:16:33 2009
From: wwn1 at sfu.ca (WilsonOfCanada)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:16:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Raw Strings with Variables
Message-ID: <0d176354-bb6c-4da5-b9b8-b444f6a946e6@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

Hellos,

I know that if you have:

happy = r"C:\moo"
print happy

you get C:\moo instead of C:\\moo

The thing is that I want to do this a variable instead.

ex. testline = fileName.readline()
      rawtestline = r testline

Thanks


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Tue Aug 18 19:18:57 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:18:57 -0700
Subject: Python on the web, how to?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908181618r6be34f68ma7702b8358788602@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 4:06 PM, Atul. wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> Needless to say I am new to python and web programming. I am looking
> for a quick Python-101 course / tutorial for "using python to
> implement dynamic content on web" under some web server. Any pointers
> what should I be reading?

Google for "Python web framework" and take your pick.

Some popular choices:
- Django: http://www.djangoproject.com/
-- associated online book: http://djangobook.com/
- TurboGears: http://turbogears.org/

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From af2012 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 19:33:00 2009
From: af2012 at gmail.com (Allan)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:33:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: recording input from USB port and write to text file
Message-ID: 

Hi! I'm fairly new to Python.  I understand the basics basics but I'm
been trying to write a simple python code that will let me read input
data (such as mouse movement) from my USB port and write it in a text
file and I am so lost.  Can anyone help or direct me to some
resources?  Thank you!


From davidshais at googlemail.com  Tue Aug 18 19:38:15 2009
From: davidshais at googlemail.com (David)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:38:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Scope and classes
References: 
	
Message-ID: <07746be7-368e-4222-82a1-fecb5c2c5da3@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 19, 12:16?am, Chris Rebert  wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 3:47 PM, David wrote:
> > Hi all,
>
> > I'm trying to understand how scopes work within a class definition.
> > I'll quickly illustrate with an example. Say I had the following class
> > definition:
>
> > class Abc:
> > ? ?message = 'Hello World'
>
> > ? ?def print_message(self):
> > ? ? ? ?print message
>
> >>>> instance = Abc()
> >>>> instance.print_message()
> > NameError: global name 'message' not defined
>
> > My question is, why? message is not defined in print_message, but it
> > is defined in the enclosing scope (the class)?
>
> A class' scope is never consulted when resolving variable names in its methods.
>
> The scopes consulted are roughly (and in this order):
> 1. Local variable scope (i.e. of the current function/method)
> 2. Enclosing functions (if you have functions nested inside other functions)
> 3. Globals (i.e. module-level variables)
> 3. Builtins (i.e. the built-in functions and methods, such as len())
>
> To access class-level variables from within instance methods of the
> class, you have 2 options:
> A. Use the class name, i.e. Abc.message
> B. Reference the class indirectly, i.e. self.__class__.message
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --http://blog.rebertia.com

Ah, thanks!


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Tue Aug 18 19:39:38 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 18 Aug 2009 23:39:38 GMT
Subject: Scope and classes
References: 
Message-ID: <0014bf1a$0$2963$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 15:47:09 -0700, David wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I'm trying to understand how scopes work within a class definition. I'll
> quickly illustrate with an example. Say I had the following class
> definition:
> 
> class Abc:
>     message = 'Hello World'
> 
>     def print_message(self):
>         print message
> 
>>>> instance = Abc()
>>>> instance.print_message()
> NameError: global name 'message' not defined
> 
> My question is, why? message is not defined in print_message, but it is
> defined in the enclosing scope (the class)?

It's a deliberate design decision. I don't recall the reasons for it, but 
the class namespace is deliberately excluded from the method scope.

The correct way of writing the above is:

class Abc:
    message = 'Hello World'
    def print_message(self):
        print self.message


self.message will first search the instance namespace for an attribute 
`message`, then search the class, then any superclasses. If you 
specifically want the class attribute, even if the instance masks it with 
an instance attribute of the same name, you do this instead:

        print self.__class__.message



-- 
Steven


From marduk at letterboxes.org  Tue Aug 18 19:39:54 2009
From: marduk at letterboxes.org (Albert Hopkins)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 19:39:54 -0400
Subject: Raw Strings with Variables
In-Reply-To: <0d176354-bb6c-4da5-b9b8-b444f6a946e6@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
References: <0d176354-bb6c-4da5-b9b8-b444f6a946e6@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1250638794.5388.3.camel@centar.nbk>

On Tue, 2009-08-18 at 16:16 -0700, WilsonOfCanada wrote:
> Hellos,
> 
> I know that if you have:
> 
> happy = r"C:\moo"
> print happy
> 
> you get C:\moo instead of C:\\moo
> 
> The thing is that I want to do this a variable instead.
> 
> ex. testline = fileName.readline()
>       rawtestline = r testline

I'm not sure what you are hoping for... Raw strings apply to string
literals.  If you are reading from a file, as above, you need not worry
about it:

$ cat test.txt 
C:\moo
$ python -c 'r = open("test.txt").readline() ; print r'
C:\moo



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Tue Aug 18 19:50:05 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 00:50:05 +0100
Subject: Read C++ enum in python
In-Reply-To: <4a8b3342$0$25403$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4a8b3342$0$25403$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4A8B3E2D.7040702@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Ludo wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I work in a very large project where we have C++ packages and pieces of 
> python code.
> 
> I've been googleing for days but what I find seems really too 
> complicated for what I want to do.
> 
> My business is, in python, to read enum definitions provided by the 
> header file of an c++ package.
> Of course I could open the .h file, read the enum and transcode it by 
> hand into a .py file but the package is regularly updated and thus is 
> the enum.
> 
> My question is then simple : do we have :
>     - either a simple way in python to read the .h file, retrieve the 
> c++ enum and provide an access to it in my python script
>     - either a simple tool (in a long-term it would be automatically run 
> when the c++ package is compiled) generating from the .h file a .py file 
> containing the python definition of the enums ?
> 
> Thank you for any suggestion.

Speaking personally, I'd parse the .h file using a regular expression
(re module) and generate a .py file. Compilers typically have a way of
letting you run external scripts (eg batch files in Windows or, in this
case, a Python script) when an application is compiled.


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Tue Aug 18 19:52:42 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 01:52:42 +0200
Subject: How do I convert an iterator over bytes into a str?
In-Reply-To: <3e3d2ebd-df8a-42a8-9420-0439a965a0d5@v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
References: <3e3d2ebd-df8a-42a8-9420-0439a965a0d5@v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

19-08-2009 o 00:24:20 markscottwright  wrote:

> What's the correct way to turn an iterator over bytes into a string?
> This works, but, ewww:
>     In [8]: "".join(iter("four score and seven years ago"))
>     Out[8]: 'four score and seven years ago'

But it is the correct way (and even recommended over s=s+t or s+=t, when
applicable
-- see:  
http://docs.python.org/library/stdtypes.html#sequence-types-str-unicode-list-tuple-buffer-xrange).

Cheers,
*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From david.birdsong at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 19:58:28 2009
From: david.birdsong at gmail.com (birdsong)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:58:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: basic thread question
References: <20090818201015.GP20434@dragontoe.org>
	
Message-ID: <92338aa1-0913-483a-b950-c73f0fdb0b1f@v37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 18, 3:18?pm, Derek Martin  wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 03:10:15PM -0500, Derek Martin wrote:
> > I have some simple threaded code... ?If I run this
> > with an arg of 1 (start one thread), it pegs one cpu, as I would
> > expect. ?If I run it with an arg of 2 (start 2 threads), it uses both
> > CPUs, but utilization of both is less than 50%. ?Can anyone explain
> > why? ?
>
> Ah, searching while waiting for an answer (the e-mail gateway is a bit
> slow, it seems...) I discovered that the GIL is the culprate.
> Evidently this question comes up a lot. ?It would probably save a lot
> of time on the part of those who answer questions here, as well as
> those implementing solutions in Python, if whoever is maintaining the
> docs these days would put a blurb about this in the docs in big bold
> letters... ?Concurrency being perhaps the primary reason to use
> threading, essentially it means that Python is not useful for the
> sorts of problems that one would be inclined to solve they way my code
> works (or rather, was meant to). ?It would be very helpful to know
> that *before* one tried to implement a solution that way... especially
> for solutions significantly less trivial than mine. ;-)
>
> Thanks
>
> --
> Derek D. Martinhttp://www.pizzashack.org/
> GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D
>
> ?application_pgp-signature_part
> < 1KViewDownload

I would still watch that video which will explain a bit more about the
GIL.


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Tue Aug 18 20:03:44 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 19 Aug 2009 00:03:44 GMT
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<90cd2c33-5f2d-4a29-b267-67f233ae2946@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
	<4A8ADF6D.2030405@sequans.com>
	
Message-ID: <0014c4c0$0$2963$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:13:02 -0400, Simon Forman wrote:

> Sexism, racism, homophobia, religious intolerance, etc., all stem from a
> fundamental forgetfulness of our Unity in God (as I would put it) and

Of the tens of thousands of Gods that people have invented, which is the 
one we're supposed to believe in? I always forget which ones we're 
supposed to dismiss as nonsense, and which one we're not.


> this is perhaps the single greatest cause of human misery.

Okay, we're Unified in God. Great. What does that actually mean, really? 
In the struggle to survive in a world of shortages, disease, natural 
disasters and disputes between well-meaning but incompatible viewpoints 
(to say nothing of the selfish and greedy), what practical difference 
does it make?


-- 
Steven


From cmpython at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 20:04:08 2009
From: cmpython at gmail.com (Che M)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:04:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: GUI interface builder for python
References: 
	<21bca3cf-b2c7-47d7-9142-26c9fd015f92@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com> 
	<02ec7cd9-e749-46d3-8b25-75d85794f292@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: <02bf2081-4f4a-4219-8441-1d48f09af338@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 18, 10:54?am, sturlamolden  wrote:
> On 17 Aug, 17:19, Che M  wrote:
>
> > Boa (Boa Constructor) is really nice for wxPython GUI
> > work, but it has some bugs when using Linux that might
> > be dealbreakers for the user. ?At least I have had
> > problems on Ubuntu 8.10 64 bit (but none or very few
>
> I prefer wxFormBuilder over Boa.

Why?


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Aug 18 20:08:20 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 09:08:20 +0900
Subject: sub-list extraction, logical indexation
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Pierre wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
> 
> I would like to know if it is possible to extract a sub-list from a
> list ?
> 
> typically if :
> 
> L =[[1, 2, 3],[4, 5, 6],[3] ]
> 
> How to extract easily the elements 0 and 2 of L in order to get :
> 
> L2 =[[1, 2, 3],[3] ]

L2 = [L[0],L[2]]
> 
> Moreover, I would like to know if it is possible to use logical
> indexation such that :
> 
> index = [ True, False, True]
> L2 = L

use zip(index,L) in a for loop
> 
> or usual indexation, something like
> index=[0, 2]
> L2 = L

#untried
L2=[]
for i in index
L2.append(L[i])

tjr



From wwn1 at sfu.ca  Tue Aug 18 20:09:29 2009
From: wwn1 at sfu.ca (WilsonOfCanada)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:09:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Raw Strings with Variables
References: <0d176354-bb6c-4da5-b9b8-b444f6a946e6@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

You're right, but the moment I append it onto a list, it would become
C:\\moo.

arrPlaces = []
intPoint =0

while (len(testline)):
        testline = fileName.readline()
        print testline
        arrPlaces[intPoint].append(testline)
        intPoint += 1

print arrPlaces

> C:\moo
> C:\supermoo
> ['C:\\moo', 'C:\\supermoo']

Is there a way to stop that when appending to the dictionary?

Thanks


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Tue Aug 18 20:10:58 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 02:10:58 +0200
Subject: Scope and classes
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

19-08-2009 o 00:47:09 David  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm trying to understand how scopes work within a class definition.
> I'll quickly illustrate with an example. Say I had the following class
> definition:
>
> class Abc:
>     message = 'Hello World'
>
>     def print_message(self):
>         print message
>
>>>> instance = Abc()
>>>> instance.print_message()
> NameError: global name 'message' not defined
>
> My question is, why? message is not defined in print_message, but it
> is defined in the enclosing scope (the class)?

Note that when *running* the code that is *inside* print_message() method
called within the global scope, the outer (enclosing) scope is indeed the
global scope (the scope in which e.g. 'instance' name exists; note that
e.g. 'print instance' in that method would be ok).

As Chris wrote, class' scope (contrary to outer function scope) is not
considered as the 'enclosing' scope.

The only ways to reach Abc's attribute 'message' from that method are:
* 'Abc.message'
* 'self.__class__.message'
* 'self.message' (unless there is an instance attribute 'message' which
overrides the class attribute).

Cheers,
*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Tue Aug 18 20:17:22 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 02:17:22 +0200
Subject: Scope and classes
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

19-08-2009 o 02:10:58 Jan Kaliszewski  wrote:

> The only ways to reach Abc's attribute 'message' from that method are:
> * 'Abc.message'
> * 'self.__class__.message'
> * 'self.message' (unless there is an instance attribute 'message' which
> overrides the class attribute).

And of course getattr(Abc), getattr(self.__class__) etc. :-)

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Tue Aug 18 20:18:13 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:18:13 -0700
Subject: Raw Strings with Variables
In-Reply-To: 
References: <0d176354-bb6c-4da5-b9b8-b444f6a946e6@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908181718w6eb8befbp876e8cd831ec3c8e@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 5:09 PM, WilsonOfCanada wrote:
> You're right, but the moment I append it onto a list, it would become
> C:\\moo.
>
> arrPlaces = []
> intPoint =0
>
> while (len(testline)):
> ? ? ? ?testline = fileName.readline()
> ? ? ? ?print testline
> ? ? ? ?arrPlaces[intPoint].append(testline)
> ? ? ? ?intPoint += 1
>
> print arrPlaces
>
>> C:\moo
>> C:\supermoo
>> ['C:\\moo', 'C:\\supermoo']

That's because the list uses repr() rather than str() to stringify its
items when it is output. repr() shows escape sequences rather than the
literal characters and adds the surrounding quote marks, but the
string is not modified upon placement in the container.

Study this interpreter session:
>>> a = r"C:\supermoo"
>>> b = "\t" #a tab character
>>> c = [a, b]
>>> print a #note the lack of quotes in the output
C:\supermoo
>>> print repr(a) #note the quotes and \\
'C:\\supermoo'
>>> print b #we see the literal tab
	
>>> print repr(b) #we see the escape sequence
'\t'
>>> print c #note how this matches the repr() output from earlier
['C:\\supermoo', '\t']
>>> print c[0], c[1], "end" #but the actual strings are the same as before
C:\supermoo 	end

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Tue Aug 18 20:30:36 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 02:30:36 +0200
Subject: Raw Strings with Variables
In-Reply-To: 
References: <0d176354-bb6c-4da5-b9b8-b444f6a946e6@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

Dnia 19-08-2009 o 02:09:29 WilsonOfCanada  napisa?(a):

> You're right, but the moment I append it onto a list, it would become
> C:\\moo.

No, it would not. Really!

>  C:\moo
>  C:\supermoo
>  ['C:\\moo', 'C:\\supermoo']

It is not the matter of content of the string but only of a way of
*presentation* of it by print:

     print arrPlaces

in the example is roughly equivalent to:

     print '[' + repr(a_list[0]) + ', ' + repr(a_list[1]) + ']'


So try:

     print a_list[0]
Output:
     C:\moo

     print a_list[1]
Output:
     C:\supermoo

     print ', '.join(arrPlaces)
Output:
     C:\moo, C:\supermoo

     print ', '.join("'%s'" % item for item in arrPlaces)
Output:
     'C:\moo', 'C:\supermoo'


Cheers,
*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Aug 18 20:42:13 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 10:42:13 +1000
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<90cd2c33-5f2d-4a29-b267-67f233ae2946@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
	<4A8ADF6D.2030405@sequans.com>
	
Message-ID: <87hbw4fxcq.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Simon Forman  writes:

> Sexism, racism, homophobia, religious intolerance, etc., all stem from
> a fundamental forgetfulness of our Unity in God (as I would put it)

It seems odd, for someone who cites religious intolerance as a problem,
to then assert an extremely divisive religious idea.

We're all unified by our humanity. Bringing any god into the picture is
surely counter to any goals of unity.

> We are one family.

Agreed.

-- 
 \           ?Are you thinking what I'm thinking, Pinky?? ?Uh... yeah, |
  `\     Brain, but where are we going to find rubber pants our size?? |
_o__)                                           ?_Pinky and The Brain_ |
Ben Finney


From mauriceling at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 20:49:56 2009
From: mauriceling at gmail.com (mauriceling@acm.org)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:49:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Call for Papers - PyCon Asia Pacific 2010
Message-ID: <04687d05-2017-4002-ba11-6d50f684b2f3@y28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

Dear fellow friends and colleagues,

I apologize if you had received multiple copies of this Call for
Papers.
Maurice
==================================================================
------------------------------------------------------------
Call for Papers - PyCon Asia Pacific 2010
------------------------------------------------------------

PyCon Asia Pacific 2010 represents a major development for the Python
community in the Asia Pacific region. In Asia Pacific, we are
encouraged by the country-level initiatives of Python conferences in
India and New Zealand. We fully expect that PyCon Asia Pacific will be
hosted by different APAC countries as the momentum of Python develops
in the region.

Quote : ??Python development in the Asia Pacific region is proceeding
rapidly? I would very much like to highlight the special nature of
this conference?. I hope that my presence will help to further
international cooperation on Python development?
Steven Holden, Chairman, Python Software Foundation (PSF)
Keynote, PyCon Asia Pacific 2010

PyCon Asia Pacific 2010?s is looking for proposals from the Python
community to fill its formal presentation tracks. The Conference Days
will be June 10-11, 2010 in Singapore, preceded by a Tutorial Day
(June 9). (http://apac.pycon.org)

Important Dates
-----------------------
?	Call for Papers: August 15, 2009
?	Deadline for Paper Submissions: February 1, 2010
?	Notification of Paper Acceptance: March 15, 2010
?	Conference Registration Open: March 15, 2010
?	Submission of Camera-Ready Paper: April 15, 2010
?	Conference Days: June 10 - 11, 2010 (preceded by tutorials on the
June 9, 2010)

PyCon Topics
--------------------
PyCon conferences worldwide have had a broad range of presentations,
ranging from reports on academic and commercial projects to tutorials
and case studies. We hope to continue that tradition here at PyCon
Asia Pacific in Singapore. As long as the presentation is interesting
and potentially useful to the Python community, it will be considered
for inclusion in the program. We are especially interested in short
presentations that will teach conference-goers something new and
useful.

Suitable topics for PyCon Asia Pacific 2010 presentations include, but
are not limited to:
?	Core Python and other implementations: IronPython, Jython, PyPy and
Stackless.
?	Python libraries and extensions
?	Business Applications
?	Databases
?	Embedding and Extending Python
?	Game Programming
?	GUI Programming
?	Network Programming
?	Python in IT Security
?	Open Source Python projects
?	Packaging Issues
?	Programming Tools
?	Project Best Practices
?	Python in Education, Science and Math
?	System Administration
?	Web Programming (Django, Zope, TurboGears, WSGI)

Talk Format
-----------------
The preferred length for talks is 30 minutes. Session lengths include
time for audience questions. You should budget at least five minutes
for questions; for example, a 30-minute talk will be 25 minutes of
presentation and 5 minutes of questions. Open Space rooms will also be
available for follow-up sessions.

Proposal Submission
-------------------------------
The primary author should submit a proposal, after which additional
authors can be added. This is to help us make arrangements for
reviewers and draft the conference programme. The proposal must
include the following:
?	Talk title.
?	Choice of one or more category tag.
?	Level. Indicate the intended audience difficulty level i.e.
beginner, intermediate or advanced.
?	Summary (max 100 words) for the website.
?	Description : Detailed outline for review; notes for reviewers and
permission for your talk to be recorded.

Your proposal will be reviewed by the programme committee. If your
proposal is accepted, you should thereafter include:
?	a companion paper (up to 30 pages) OR
?	an extended abstract (up to 3 pages)

along with your presentation. Go to http://us.pycon.org/2008/conference/proposals/
example1/ for an example of a conference talk proposal.

Please send your proposal (and any questions) to
conference at pugs.org.sg.

Companion Paper or Extended Abstract Submission
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
All presenters should submit a paper by the deadline above, with or
without prior proposal submission.

This submission is to be your full paper (companion paper or extended
abstract), not a draft. It should contain all of the usual aspects of
a paper such as an abstract, introduction, body and conclusion. Please
ensure that this submission has had its grammar and spelling corrected
and that code snippets work.

Your paper will be peer-reviewed by the programme committee and a
notice of paper acceptance with review comments will be sent to the
author(s) on March 15, 2010.

Accepted papers can be amended by the author(s), taking into account
of reviewers' comments and submit for publication by April 15, 2010.

?	All papers will be published in The Python Papers Monograph series
(www.pythonpapers.org). We suggest, but do not require, all authors to
place their papers under the Creative Commons license.
?	Please see http://www.pythonpapers.org/instAuthor.html for the
preferred formats of submission.
?	Please submit your papers at http://ojs.pythonpapers.org/index.php/tppm/author.
Your paper allows attendees who attended your talk a chance to refresh
their memories about your presentation, and gives attendees who missed
your talk a chance to learn from you anyway. Make sure your paper
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material and a list of further resources.

Assistance
----------------
PyCon Asia Pacific 2010 in Singapore cannot offer payment or free
registration to all conference speakers. However, financial aid will
be available were possible, and giving a talk is a great rationale. If
you require financial aid in order to attend PyCon Asia Pacific 2010
in Singapore, please note it in your proposal. If you have any
questions, contact conference at pugs.org.sg.


From wwn1 at sfu.ca  Tue Aug 18 20:51:31 2009
From: wwn1 at sfu.ca (WilsonOfCanada)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:51:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Raw Strings with Variables
References: <0d176354-bb6c-4da5-b9b8-b444f6a946e6@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

However, when I send the list over as a dictionary for HTML:

d["places"] = arrPlaces

return render_to_response('rentSearch.html', d)

the HTML using Django has:

{{ places }} but returns ['C:\\moo', 'C:\\supermoo']


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Tue Aug 18 21:00:56 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 18:00:56 -0700
Subject: Raw Strings with Variables
In-Reply-To: 
References: <0d176354-bb6c-4da5-b9b8-b444f6a946e6@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908181800r62abeb00t9632b3f336e2e0c1@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 5:51 PM, WilsonOfCanada wrote:
> However, when I send the list over as a dictionary for HTML:
>
> d["places"] = arrPlaces
>
> return render_to_response('rentSearch.html', d)
>
> the HTML using Django has:
>
> {{ places }} but returns ['C:\\moo', 'C:\\supermoo']

As we've explained already, containers (such as dictionaries and
lists) use repr() to display their elements, and repr() for strings
shows the escape sequences (e.g. \\ \t \n) and adds surrounding
quotes. Hence the output you're getting.
If you don't like the way it looks, then either send the list through
a filter that outputs it like you want by accessing the elements
individually, or iterate over the contents of the list in your
template and output it like you want.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From http  Tue Aug 18 21:07:25 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 18 Aug 2009 18:07:25 -0700
Subject: Editing a wiki
References: <62993053-871d-4dd6-96b0-10548ca4ed29@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7x1vn8har6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

KillSwitch  writes:
> Is it possible to edit a wiki page with python, including logging in
> to edit the page, and inserting text into the edit box, etc.

If you are talking about MediaWiki (the software behind Wikipedia),
it already has an API for which there are several Python clients.
See:

   http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API
   http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API:Client_Code

If you are looking to use Python (or any other language) to
automatically edit Wikipedia itself, you need approval for that.
See:

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bot_policy


From davea at ieee.org  Tue Aug 18 21:07:27 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 21:07:27 -0400
Subject: Start-up program
In-Reply-To: <4A8ABA78.8050605@it.uu.se>
References: <4A8ABA78.8050605@it.uu.se>
Message-ID: <4A8B504F.8010307@ieee.org>

Virgil Stokes wrote:
> 
How 
> difficult is to create a program that will be executed when Windows 
> Vista is started? As Windows Calendar does, for example.
>
> I am actually more interested in the Python tools that might be used 
> for this task. I hope that this question is not inappropriate for the 
> list. :-\
>
> --V
>
>
> 

>
The three responses I've seen probably aren't what you're asking.

You have to make a distinction between when Windows starts, and when a 
user logs in.  If you're interested in the point when the user logs in, 
all you need to do is make a shortcut for the script, no special 
executable is needed.  Just put the shortcut in the Startup folder.

But if you're really interested in the point when Windows starts, you 
have three options.  Most painful is making a service.  But that's 
unnecessary.

Second way involves the system policy:  
HKLM\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft|Windows\System\Scripts\
     but anything started that way has a 10 minute time limit before 
it's automatically killed.

Third, and easiest way is  the task scheduler:
   Start Menu/All Programs/Accessories/System Tools/ScheduledTasks

Add your program in with the scheduled task wizard.  There are various 
scheduling choices, and one of them is called something like "boot".   
Again, you needn't make a separate EXE file, since Python.exe is already 
a perfectly valid one.

It's likely that Vista has some security oddities, and I don't have any 
pointers for that.

But even in XP, one thing you might need to do is "Fast Logon 
Optimization".  It's enabled by default, but if somebody has turned it 
off, then logon might be blocked till your special script finishes.

DaveA


From davidshais at googlemail.com  Tue Aug 18 21:12:39 2009
From: davidshais at googlemail.com (David)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 18:12:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Scope and classes
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 19, 1:17?am, "Jan Kaliszewski"  wrote:
> 19-08-2009 o 02:10:58 Jan Kaliszewski  wrote:
>
> > The only ways to reach Abc's attribute 'message' from that method are:
> > * 'Abc.message'
> > * 'self.__class__.message'
> > * 'self.message' (unless there is an instance attribute 'message' which
> > overrides the class attribute).
>
> And of course getattr(Abc), getattr(self.__class__) etc. :-)
>
> --
> Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 

Out of 'Abc.message' and 'self.message', which is the favoured
convention? It would be very easy to accidentally override
'self.messages' with an instance attribute!


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Aug 18 21:22:32 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 11:22:32 +1000
Subject: Scope and classes
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: <878whgfvhj.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

David  writes:

> Out of 'Abc.message' and 'self.message', which is the favoured
> convention?

It's not a matter of convention. They mean different things, so you use
each depending on what you mean.

> It would be very easy to accidentally override 'self.messages' with an
> instance attribute!

Right. So you use ?Abc.message? when you specifically want a class
independent of any instance, and you use ?self.message? when you want
the attribute of this instance (with fallback to the usual resolution
order).

-- 
 \      ?Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex? |
  `\    It takes a touch of genius ? and a lot of courage ? to move in |
_o__)                        the opposite direction.? ?Albert Einstein |
Ben Finney


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Aug 18 22:01:29 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 12:01:29 +1000
Subject: Scope and classes
References: 
	
	
	
	<878whgfvhj.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <874os4ftom.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Ben Finney  writes:

> Right. So you use ?Abc.message? when you specifically want a class
> independent of any instance

That's ?a class attribute independent of any instance?, of course.

-- 
 \        ?Humanity has advanced, when it has advanced, not because it |
  `\     has been sober, responsible, and cautious, but because it has |
_o__)            been playful, rebellious, and immature.? ?Tom Robbins |
Ben Finney


From gu.yakahughes at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 22:25:07 2009
From: gu.yakahughes at gmail.com (yaka)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 19:25:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Editing a wiki
References: <62993053-871d-4dd6-96b0-10548ca4ed29@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<7x1vn8har6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <85b24ce4-2cbb-402d-8027-f3025c795db0@r18g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 18, 6:07?pm, Paul Rubin  wrote:
> KillSwitch  writes:
> > Is it possible to edit a wiki page with python, including logging in
> > to edit the page, and inserting text into the edit box, etc.
>
> If you are talking about MediaWiki (the software behind Wikipedia),
> it already has an API for which there are several Python clients.
> See:
>
> ? ?http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API
> ? ?http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API:Client_Code
>
> If you are looking to use Python (or any other language) to
> automatically edit Wikipedia itself, you need approval for that.
> See:
>
> ?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bot_policy

It's actually a wiki owned by a friend.


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Tue Aug 18 22:32:14 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 19:32:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How do I convert an iterator over bytes into a str?
References: <3e3d2ebd-df8a-42a8-9420-0439a965a0d5@v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <9e60a01a-46e3-4aab-bbb0-845e4a08fb15@i8g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 19, 8:24?am, markscottwright  wrote:
> This does what I expected:
> ? ? In [6]: list(iter([1,2,3,4,5]))
> ? ? Out[6]: [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
>
> But this appears to be doing a __repr__ rather than making me a nice
> string:
> ? ?In [7]: str(iter("four score and seven years ago"))
> ? ?Out[7]: ''
>
> What's the correct way to turn an iterator over bytes into a string?
> This works, but, ewww:
> ? ? In [8]: "".join(iter("four score and seven years ago"))
> ? ? Out[8]: 'four score and seven years ago'

There is no such thing as an "iterator over bytes" in Python 2.x.
There is no such concept as "convert an iterator over  into
a str" object.

What you have is an iterator over str objects of length 1. To do what
you appear to actually want to do (concatenate a bunch of strings), it
is recomemnded to use ''.join(str_iterable).


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 23:02:34 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 20:02:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How do I convert an iterator over bytes into a str?
References: <3e3d2ebd-df8a-42a8-9420-0439a965a0d5@v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 18, 3:24?pm, markscottwright  wrote:
> This does what I expected:
> ? ? In [6]: list(iter([1,2,3,4,5]))
> ? ? Out[6]: [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
>
> But this appears to be doing a __repr__ rather than making me a nice
> string:
> ? ?In [7]: str(iter("four score and seven years ago"))
> ? ?Out[7]: ''

Unfortunately, str() is overloaded in that it tries to be both a sorta-
pretty-printer and a constructor.  You're trying to use it as a
constructor, but it wants to be a sorta-pretty-printer here.

Anyway, str is different from other container objects since, unlike
other containers, strings can't contain arbitrary Python objects.


> What's the correct way to turn an iterator over bytes into a string?
> This works, but, ewww:
> ? ? In [8]: "".join(iter("four score and seven years ago"))
> ? ? Out[8]: 'four score and seven years ago'

This is the correct way.

If the syntax bothers you can always do this:

    str.join("",iter("four score"))

I think "".join is ugly as hell but in this case convenience beats
beauty for me.


Carl Banks


From grante at visi.com  Tue Aug 18 23:23:34 2009
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 22:23:34 -0500
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<90cd2c33-5f2d-4a29-b267-67f233ae2946@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
	<4A8ADF6D.2030405@sequans.com>
	
	<87hbw4fxcq.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-19, Ben Finney  wrote:
> Simon Forman  writes:

>> We are one family.
>
> Agreed.

That's not much comfort if you've seen the way many families
get along with each other.

-- 
Grant



From sajmikins at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 23:27:39 2009
From: sajmikins at gmail.com (Simon Forman)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 23:27:39 -0400
Subject: Inheriting dictionary
In-Reply-To: <2fe6d216-1e8f-4de1-8c36-d4ee11bb7233@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
References: <95736695-29b5-4185-8764-8eca140b76d2@e18g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<2fe6d216-1e8f-4de1-8c36-d4ee11bb7233@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50f98a4c0908182027j214c922dx3f82d6114c6eda3a@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 6:08 PM, Simon Forman wrote:
> On Aug 18, 3:44?pm, Pavel Panchekha  wrote:
>> I want a dictionary that will transparently "inherit" from a parent
>> dictionary. So, for example:
>>
>> """
>> a = InheritDict({1: "one", 2: "two", 4: "four"})
>> b = InheritDict({3: "three", 4: "foobar"}, inherit_from=a)
>>
>> a[1] # "one"
>> a[4] # "four"
>> b[1] # "one"
>> b[3] # "three"
>> b[4] # "foobar"
>> """
>>
>> I've written something like this in Python already, but I'm wondering
>> if something like this already exists, preferably written in C, for
>> speed.
>
>
> I would consider something like the following:
>
>
> a = {1: "one", 2: "two", 4: "four"}
> b = {3: "three", 4: "foobar"}
>
>
> from functools import partial
>
>
> def getter(first, second, key):
> ? ?try:
> ? ? ? ?return first(key)
> ? ?except KeyError:
> ? ? ? ?return second(key)
>
>
> f = partial(getter, b.__getitem__, a.__getitem__)
>
>
> # Or, if you know you'll be getting a lot of KeyErrors, you
> # can use get() instead of __getitem__().
>
> def getter1(first, second, key, sentinel=None):
> ? ?item = first(key, sentinel)
> ? ?if item is sentinel:
> ? ? ? ?item = second(key)
> ? ?return item
>
> g = partial(getter1, b.get, a.__getitem__)
>
>
> HTH,
> ~Simon
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

Since you're going for speed the overhead of using partial (which
creates a wrapper object around the getter function) can be replaced
by something like this:

def makeGetter(first, second):
    def getter(key):
        try:
            return first(key)
        except KeyError:
            return second(key)
    return getter


f = makeGetter(b.__getitem__, a.__getitem__)


From sajmikins at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 23:43:48 2009
From: sajmikins at gmail.com (Simon Forman)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 23:43:48 -0400
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
In-Reply-To: <0014c4c0$0$2963$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<90cd2c33-5f2d-4a29-b267-67f233ae2946@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
	<4A8ADF6D.2030405@sequans.com>
	
	<0014c4c0$0$2963$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <50f98a4c0908182043i8a619fdydb9311eadf7cef9@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 8:03 PM, Steven
D'Aprano wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:13:02 -0400, Simon Forman wrote:
>
>> Sexism, racism, homophobia, religious intolerance, etc., all stem from a
>> fundamental forgetfulness of our Unity in God (as I would put it) and
>
> Of the tens of thousands of Gods that people have invented, which is the
> one we're supposed to believe in? I always forget which ones we're
> supposed to dismiss as nonsense, and which one we're not.

Why the heck are you asking me?  (I'd say "/you/ are the God you
should believe in.")

>> this is perhaps the single greatest cause of human misery.
>
> Okay, we're Unified in God. Great. What does that actually mean, really?
> In the struggle to survive in a world of shortages, disease, natural
> disasters and disputes between well-meaning but incompatible viewpoints
> (to say nothing of the selfish and greedy), what practical difference
> does it make?

It means (to me, at least) that underlying all the BS and misery
there's a reason to hope, a reality the transcends this squalid
mud-ball Earth, and can overcome it completely if tapped.

It's more than a symbol with meaning, Unity is a phenomenon that can
be lived, experienced. It can be practiced and deepened.  Done well,
the practical difference it makes defies measurement.

(That's why calling folks on sexist behavior is important enough to
butt in on a thread on usenet with an OT reprimand. IMHO)

Regards,
~Simon


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Aug 18 23:49:12 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 13:49:12 +1000
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<90cd2c33-5f2d-4a29-b267-67f233ae2946@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
	<4A8ADF6D.2030405@sequans.com>
	
	<87hbw4fxcq.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
Message-ID: <87vdkkea4n.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Grant Edwards  writes:

> On 2009-08-19, Ben Finney  wrote:
> > Simon Forman  writes:
> >> We are one family.
> >
> > Agreed.
>
> That's not much comfort if you've seen the way many families get along
> with each other.

Demonstrable facts, by nature of being independently verifiable, are a
better point of unification than comforting illusions, however
confidently asserted.

-- 
 \      ?Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than |
  `\  it ceases to be serious when people laugh.? ?George Bernard Shaw |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From sajmikins at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 23:49:45 2009
From: sajmikins at gmail.com (Simon Forman)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 23:49:45 -0400
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
In-Reply-To: <87hbw4fxcq.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<90cd2c33-5f2d-4a29-b267-67f233ae2946@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
	<4A8ADF6D.2030405@sequans.com>
	
	<87hbw4fxcq.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <50f98a4c0908182049t63322bbiebf53065562cb2@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 8:42 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
> Simon Forman  writes:
>
>> Sexism, racism, homophobia, religious intolerance, etc., all stem from
>> a fundamental forgetfulness of our Unity in God (as I would put it)
>
> It seems odd, for someone who cites religious intolerance as a problem,
> to then assert an extremely divisive religious idea.

Well, I did say, "(as I would put it)" to try to cushion the blow.

> We're all unified by our humanity. Bringing any god into the picture is
> surely counter to any goals of unity.

Unity "in humanity" is, to my way of thinking, the same as Unity "in
God".  I think Unity, like None, is a built-in singleton, so to speak.

>> We are one family.
>
> Agreed.

<3


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Aug 19 00:05:53 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 14:05:53 +1000
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<90cd2c33-5f2d-4a29-b267-67f233ae2946@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
	<4A8ADF6D.2030405@sequans.com>
	
	<87hbw4fxcq.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
Message-ID: <87r5v8e9cu.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Simon Forman  writes:

> On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 8:42 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
> > We're all unified by our humanity. Bringing any god into the picture
> > is surely counter to any goals of unity.
>
> Unity "in humanity" is, to my way of thinking, the same as Unity "in
> God".

Then you're playing Humpty-Dumpty games with words. You know very well
that ?God? has established meanings entirely different from ?humanity?,
and those meanings played a part in your choice of that word.

I maintain that you can't consistently make a declaration in favour of
human unity and unfounded religious assertions.

> I think Unity, like None, is a built-in singleton, so to speak.

This is white noise.

> >> We are one family.
> >
> > Agreed.
>
> <3

I think we can peaceably leave it at that.

-- 
 \        ?Spam will be a thing of the past in two years' time.? ?Bill |
  `\                                                 Gates, 2004-01-24 |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 00:14:05 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 21:14:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> 
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<90cd2c33-5f2d-4a29-b267-67f233ae2946@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com> 
	<4A8ADF6D.2030405@sequans.com>
	 
	<87hbw4fxcq.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	 
	<87vdkkea4n.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 18, 8:49?pm, Ben Finney  wrote:
> Grant Edwards  writes:
> > On 2009-08-19, Ben Finney  wrote:
> > > Simon Forman  writes:
> > >> We are one family.
>
> > > Agreed.
>
> > That's not much comfort if you've seen the way many families get along
> > with each other.
>
> Demonstrable facts, by nature of being independently verifiable, are a
> better point of unification than comforting illusions, however
> confidently asserted.

You know, if you're going to escalate a budding flame war the least
you could do is to choose to do it some other way than by following up
to an obvious joke, probably one designed to diffuse the ill-feeling.


Carl Banks


From mensanator at aol.com  Wed Aug 19 00:37:04 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 21:37:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> 
	
	 
	<1fa1663b-a1cb-42d4-890b-0617b73e8816@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> 
	<4A89CEA2.10400@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	 
	<0014291d$0$2963$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <58ea46ae-0ad0-4d63-b3ba-7ed693a2b381@d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 18, 7:59?am, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:36:49 +0200, Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> > MRAB wrote:
> >> Carl Banks wrote:
> >>> On Aug 17, 10:03 am, Jean-Michel Pichavant 
> >>> wrote:
> >>>> I'm no English native, but I already heard women/men referring to a
> >>>> group as "guys", no matter that group gender configuration. It's even
> >>>> used for group composed exclusively of women. Moreover it looks like
> >>>> a *very* friendly form, so there is really nothing to worry about it.
>
> >>> I like how being very friendly means calling people after a guy who
> >>> tried to blow up the English Parliament.
>
> >> Guy Fawkes adopted the name Guido while fighting for the Spanish in the
> >> Low Countries:
>
> >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes
>
> > I didn't get Carl's reference. The only thing I know about blowing the
> > parliament is from the movie V for Vendetta (no comment please !). Now
> > thanks to your link:
> > "In 18th-century England, the term "guy" was used to refer to an effigy
> >  of Fawkes, which would be paraded
> > around town by children on the anniversary of the conspiracy"
>
> > Well, my knowledge is much too low to get this kind of reference from
> > the start. :-/
>
> "Guy" is an old English name, related to the old French name "Gy" and
> Italian "Guido". It's originally derived from the Old German for "wood"
> or "warrior".
>
> After Guy Fawkes tried to blow up the English Parliament house, and was
> executed, the British government encouraged people to burn effigies of
> him. These became known as "guys", which eventually became slang for an
> ugly man, which later became slang for any man, and in recent years, any
> person.
>
> So the irony is that the friendly term "guys", referring to a group of
> people, is derived from the name of an 18th century

You're off by at least a century.

> religious terrorist.

As were all members of parliament including the king.

>
> One can only wonder whether in 200 years time people will walk into the
> office and say "Hey you osamas, they're giving away free donuts down
> stairs, anyone want some?"



Q: What's white and flies across the ocean?

A: Lord Mountbatten's tennis shoes.



Ain't so fuckin' funny, is it?
(Unless you're Irish, in which case it's hysterical).

>
> --
> Steven



From gallium.arsenide at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 00:44:01 2009
From: gallium.arsenide at gmail.com (John Yeung)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 21:44:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Code formatting question: conditional expression
References:  
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 18, 1:25?pm, John Posner  wrote:
> BTW, from the (admittedly few) responses to my original
> post, it seems there's some sentiment that "conditional
> expressions" are a non-Pythonic misfeature. Interesting ...

Well, it's not like Guido was especially eager to add it in the first
place.

I personally wouldn't call it a misfeature, but it shares with lambda
the property that it's best used when what you need to say with it is
very short.

John Y.


From mensanator at aol.com  Wed Aug 19 00:52:43 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 21:52:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> 
	
	 
	<1fa1663b-a1cb-42d4-890b-0617b73e8816@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> 
	<9b8c48a3-b050-4a13-83f5-bc4185c62bdc@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com> 
	 
	 
	<86bb893a-344a-4c7b-9fc6-67d9f42c7607@q14g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <62dbf088-4510-40d0-af3e-3feeb291d6e4@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 17, 11:35?pm, Carl Banks  wrote:
> On Aug 17, 8:49?pm, Mensanator  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 17, 8:04 pm, Carl Banks  wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 17, 5:40 pm, Mensanator  wrote:
>
> > > > On Aug 17, 4:06 pm, Carl Banks  wrote:
>
> > > > > On Aug 17, 10:03 am, Jean-Michel Pichavant 
> > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > I'm no English native, but I already heard women/men referring to a
> > > > > > group as "guys", no matter that group gender configuration. It's even
> > > > > > used for group composed exclusively of women. Moreover it looks like a
> > > > > > *very* friendly form, so there is really nothing to worry about it.
>
> > > > > I like how being very friendly means calling people after a guy who
> > > > > tried to blow up the English Parliament.
>
> > > > So?
>
> > > I also like how making an amusing pointless observation
>
> > Pointless, yes, but what was amusing abot the observation?
>
> The irony that in being friendly that you're calling someone a
> terrorist. ?

People of Irish Catholic heritage find that extremely offensive,
like asking how many Jews you can fit into a Volswagen.

> I guess I shouldn't have expected you to get it.

Oh, I got it alright, moreso than you could possibly
imagine.

>
> > > gets people all huffy.
>
> > That wasn't huffy. You want to see huffy, make a wisecrack
> > comparing mothballs to Zyklon B, you'll REALLY get a load
> > of huffy replies.
>
> > > (BTW, lest anyone is not aware, that is the origin of the word "guy",
>
> > It most certainly is not.
>
> My dictionary disagrees with you.

hen yor dictionary is wrong. Or, more likely, you have
comprehension problems. People have been named "Guy"
for centuries prior to Mr. Fawkes.

Try reading my whole post before shouting your mouth off.

>
> > Maybe the origin of that
> > word's useage as a genric reference to a male, but
> > you didn't say that.
>
> > > this was not some random association.)
>
> > Penny for the guy?
>
> Probably that phrase was part of the word's gradual common adoption.

Kinda why I mentioned it. Duh.

>
> Carl Banks



From mensanator at aol.com  Wed Aug 19 01:07:09 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 22:07:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> 
	
	 
	<1fa1663b-a1cb-42d4-890b-0617b73e8816@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> 
	<4A89CEA2.10400@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 18, 6:36?am, Jean-Michel Pichavant 
wrote:
> MRAB wrote:
> > Carl Banks wrote:
> >> On Aug 17, 10:03 am, Jean-Michel Pichavant 
> >> wrote:
> >>> I'm no English native, but I already heard women/men referring to a
> >>> group as "guys", no matter that group gender configuration. It's even
> >>> used for group composed exclusively of women. Moreover it looks like a
> >>> *very* friendly form, so there is really nothing to worry about it.
>
> >> I like how being very friendly means calling people after a guy who
> >> tried to blow up the English Parliament.
>
> > Guy Fawkes adopted the name Guido while fighting for the Spanish in the
> > Low Countries:
>
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes
>
> I didn't get Carl's reference. The only thing I know about blowing the
> parliament is from the movie V for Vendetta (no comment please !).
> Now thanks to your link:
> "In 18th-century England, the term "guy" was used to refer to an effigy
>  of Fawkes, which would be paraded
> around town by children on the anniversary of the conspiracy"
>
> Well, my knowledge is much too low to get this kind of reference from
> the start. :-/

So I guess you have no clue WHY Mr. Fawkes would want
to blow up the parliment and assassinate the king.
Read up a bit on how just how the Church of England
came to be and it will be quite obvious.

On some TV show, someone did a re-creation of that event
to see what would have happened had he not gotten caught.
They built a life-size mockuup of the room under which
the gunpowder kegs were stashed and filled the room
with dummys. The blast was spectacular. They eventually
found the head of the dummy representing king James a
couple miles away. Or maybe it was kilometers. Either way,
the conclusion was it was very lucky to have worked out
the way it did.

>
> JM



From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Wed Aug 19 02:07:13 2009
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (greg)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 18:07:13 +1200
Subject: Changing Python Opcodes
In-Reply-To: <1e3f4885-f908-4a45-8f7a-1a45e9d91b27@n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1e3f4885-f908-4a45-8f7a-1a45e9d91b27@n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7f1j3gF2hsc2hU1@mid.individual.net>

Sreejith K wrote:

> I know this is not the best way to do it. But I have to do it at least
> to make it *hard* to decompile the python bytecode.
> So I compiled Python from source changing some opcode values

It probably wouldn't be all that hard for someone to
figure this out. A possible avenue of attack would be
to use your python to compile a known piece of code
that exercises all the opcodes, and compare the result
with that from a standard python.

-- 
Greg


From sakib.iqbal at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 02:08:49 2009
From: sakib.iqbal at gmail.com (Sakib)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 23:08:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: can't retrieve data from pyxml
Message-ID: <64baa6b4-2cd7-451e-a749-9fdca8c62d2c@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

well, i need to retrive data from the following line of xml.

     

i need the Caption and the type data.

is any one out there help me doing that?

thanks,
Sakib


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Wed Aug 19 02:11:43 2009
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (greg)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 18:11:43 +1200
Subject: define class over 2 files
In-Reply-To: <6a490ec8-3536-4508-afd4-90a5cf9317b5@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <7de550a5-64af-4f40-a7fc-e3c449d0dce9@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6a490ec8-3536-4508-afd4-90a5cf9317b5@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7f1jbuF2ifjr1U1@mid.individual.net>

naveen wrote:
>>>Is it possible to split up a class definition over multiple files?
>>
>>Not exactly, but you can do variations of this:
> 
> ... [subclass a class]

Multiple inheritance can also be useful:

# A_Part1.py

class A_Part1:
   ...

# A_Part2.py

class A_Part2:
   ...

# A.py

from A_Part1 import A_Part1
from A_Part2 import A_Part2

class A(A_Part1, A_Part2):
   ...

-- 
Greg


From danb_83 at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 19 02:17:55 2009
From: danb_83 at yahoo.com (AggieDan04)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 23:17:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Read C++ enum in python
References: <4a8b3342$0$25403$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 18, 6:03?pm, Ludo
 wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I work in a very large project where we have C++ packages and pieces of
> python code.
>
> I've been googleing for days but what I find seems really too
> complicated for what I want to do.
>
> My business is, in python, to read enum definitions provided by the
> header file of an c++ package.
> Of course I could open the .h file, read the enum and transcode it by
> hand into a .py file but the package is regularly updated and thus is
> the enum.
>
> My question is then simple : do we have :
> ? ? ? ? - either a simple way in python to read the .h file, retrieve the c++
> enum and provide an access to it in my python script

Try something like this:



file_data = open(filename).read()
# Remove comments and preprocessor directives
file_data = ' '.join(line.split('//')[0].split('#')[0] for line in
file_data.splitlines())
file_data = ' '.join(re.split(r'\/\*.*\*\/', file_data))
# Look for enums: In the first { } block after the keyword "enum"
enums = [text.split('{')[1].split('}')[0] for text in re.split(r'\benum
\b', file_data)[1:]]

for enum in enums:
    last_value = -1
    for enum_name in enum.split(','):
        if '=' in enum_name:
            enum_name, enum_value = enum_name.split('=')
            enum_value = int(enum_value, 0)
        else:
            enum_value = last_value + 1
        last_value = enum_value
        enum_name = enum_name.strip()
        print '%s = %d' % (enum_name, enum_value)
    print



From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Wed Aug 19 02:42:59 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 08:42:59 +0200
Subject: Parallelization in Python 2.6
In-Reply-To: 
References: <9d9e7278-d855-4066-b090-46d5060dc051@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>	<17baaedc-2eeb-4ede-b416-afed3c2b0fc8@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>	<54899d05-8e9b-4b91-b79d-9839cddfe2d7@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4a8b9ef4$0$31865$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:45:38 -0700 (PDT), Robert Dailey wrote:
>> Really, all I'm trying to do is the most trivial type of
>> parallelization. Take two functions, execute them in parallel. This
>> type of parallelization is called "embarrassingly parallel", and is
>> the simplest form. There are no dependencies between the two
>> functions. They do requires read-only access to shared data, though.
>> And if they are being spawned as sub-processes this could cause
>> problems, unless the multiprocess module creates pipelines or other
>> means to handle this situation.

It wouldn't be much worth if it didn't, as the subprocess module handles
everything else nicely. See the Queue classes.


> 	If they are number crunchers (CPU-bound) and don't make use of
> binary extension libraries that release the GIL (for the most common
> Python implementation), they'll run faster being called in sequence
> since you won't have the overhead of task switching.

... unless, obviously, the hardware is somewhat up to date (which is not
that uncommon for number crunching environments) and can execute more than
one thing at once.

Stefan


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Aug 19 02:56:11 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 08:56:11 +0200
Subject: recording input from USB port and write to text file
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7f1m0bF2iv0uuU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Allan schrieb:
> Hi! I'm fairly new to Python.  I understand the basics basics but I'm
> been trying to write a simple python code that will let me read input
> data (such as mouse movement) from my USB port and write it in a text
> file and I am so lost.  Can anyone help or direct me to some
> resources?  Thank you!

This isn't as easy as you think. And dependend on your operating-system.

Diez


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Aug 19 03:01:45 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 09:01:45 +0200
Subject: can't retrieve data from pyxml
In-Reply-To: <64baa6b4-2cd7-451e-a749-9fdca8c62d2c@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <64baa6b4-2cd7-451e-a749-9fdca8c62d2c@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7f1mapF2iv0uuU2@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Sakib schrieb:
> well, i need to retrive data from the following line of xml.
> 
>       msdata:Caption="Microtia" type="xs:string" minOccurs="0" />
> 
> i need the Caption and the type data.
> 
> is any one out there help me doing that?

That's not XML. It lacks namespace-declarations. So no XML-parser will 
(or should) grok it.

Also, to get help here it's better to show what you already tried, 
instead of simply asking others to do your work for you.

Diez


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Wed Aug 19 03:03:49 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 09:03:49 +0200
Subject: Diversity in Python
In-Reply-To: <8763cliez7.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: 
	
	<8763cliez7.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <200908190903.49977.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Tuesday 18 August 2009 12:38:36 Ben Finney wrote:
> Hendrik van Rooyen  writes:
> > On Tuesday 18 August 2009 06:45:39 Aahz wrote:
> > > Mainly an opportunity to flog the new diversity list.
> >
> > Here my English fails me - flog as in "whip", or flog as in "sell"?
>
> Yes :-)

Thank you that clears it up.

:-)

- Hendrik



From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Wed Aug 19 03:24:13 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 09:24:13 +0200
Subject: Inheriting dictionary
In-Reply-To: <95736695-29b5-4185-8764-8eca140b76d2@e18g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
References: <95736695-29b5-4185-8764-8eca140b76d2@e18g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <200908190924.13792.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Tuesday 18 August 2009 21:44:55 Pavel Panchekha wrote:
> I want a dictionary that will transparently "inherit" from a parent
> dictionary. So, for example:
>
> """
> a = InheritDict({1: "one", 2: "two", 4: "four"})
> b = InheritDict({3: "three", 4: "foobar"}, inherit_from=a)
>
> a[1] # "one"
> a[4] # "four"
> b[1] # "one"
> b[3] # "three"
> b[4] # "foobar"
> """
>
> I've written something like this in Python already, but I'm wondering
> if something like this already exists, preferably written in C, for
> speed.

Its not inheritance, but have you looked at the update method?

-Hendrik


From metolone+gmane at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 03:28:15 2009
From: metolone+gmane at gmail.com (Mark Tolonen)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 00:28:15 -0700
Subject: Read C++ enum in python
References: <4a8b3342$0$25403$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<4A8B3E2D.7040702@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: 


"MRAB"  wrote in message 
news:4A8B3E2D.7040702 at mrabarnett.plus.com...
> Ludo wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I work in a very large project where we have C++ packages and pieces of 
>> python code.
>>
>> I've been googleing for days but what I find seems really too complicated 
>> for what I want to do.
>>
>> My business is, in python, to read enum definitions provided by the 
>> header file of an c++ package.
>> Of course I could open the .h file, read the enum and transcode it by 
>> hand into a .py file but the package is regularly updated and thus is the 
>> enum.
>>
>> My question is then simple : do we have :
>>     - either a simple way in python to read the .h file, retrieve the c++ 
>> enum and provide an access to it in my python script
>>     - either a simple tool (in a long-term it would be automatically run 
>> when the c++ package is compiled) generating from the .h file a .py file 
>> containing the python definition of the enums ?
>>
>> Thank you for any suggestion.
>
> Speaking personally, I'd parse the .h file using a regular expression
> (re module) and generate a .py file. Compilers typically have a way of
> letting you run external scripts (eg batch files in Windows or, in this
> case, a Python script) when an application is compiled.

This is what 3rd party library pyparsing is great for:

--------begin code----------
from pyparsing import *

# sample string with enums and other stuff
sample = '''
    stuff before

    enum hello {
        Zero,
        One,
        Two,
        Three,
        Five=5,
        Six,
        Ten=10
    }

    in the middle

    enum blah
    {
        alpha,
        beta,
        gamma = 10 ,
        zeta = 50
    }

    at the end
    '''

# syntax we don't want to see in the final parse tree
_lcurl = Suppress('{')
_rcurl = Suppress('}')
_equal = Suppress('=')
_comma = Suppress(',')
_enum = Suppress('enum')

identifier = Word(alphas,alphanums+'_')
integer = Word(nums)

enumValue = Group(identifier('name') + Optional(_equal + integer('value')))
enumList = Group(enumValue + ZeroOrMore(_comma + enumValue))
enum = _enum + identifier('enum') + _lcurl + enumList('list') + _rcurl

# find instances of enums ignoring other syntax
for item,start,stop in enum.scanString(sample):
    id = 0
    for entry in item.list:
        if entry.value != '':
            id = int(entry.value)
        print '%s_%s = %d' % (item.enum.upper(),entry.name.upper(),id)
        id += 1
--------------end code------------

Output:
HELLO_ZERO = 0
HELLO_ONE = 1
HELLO_TWO = 2
HELLO_THREE = 3
HELLO_FIVE = 5
HELLO_SIX = 6
HELLO_TEN = 10
BLAH_ALPHA = 0
BLAH_BETA = 1
BLAH_GAMMA = 10
BLAH_ZETA = 50

-Mark




From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Wed Aug 19 03:31:18 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 09:31:18 +0200
Subject: Parallelization in Python 2.6
In-Reply-To: <54899d05-8e9b-4b91-b79d-9839cddfe2d7@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <9d9e7278-d855-4066-b090-46d5060dc051@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<17baaedc-2eeb-4ede-b416-afed3c2b0fc8@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<54899d05-8e9b-4b91-b79d-9839cddfe2d7@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <200908190931.18297.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Tuesday 18 August 2009 22:45:38 Robert Dailey wrote:

> Really, all I'm trying to do is the most trivial type of
> parallelization. Take two functions, execute them in parallel. This
> type of parallelization is called "embarrassingly parallel", and is
> the simplest form. There are no dependencies between the two
> functions. They do requires read-only access to shared data, though.
> And if they are being spawned as sub-processes this could cause
> problems, unless the multiprocess module creates pipelines or other
> means to handle this situation.

Just use thread then and thread.start_new_thread.
It just works.

- Hendrik


From gabriel.rossetti at arimaz.com  Wed Aug 19 03:34:52 2009
From: gabriel.rossetti at arimaz.com (Gabriel Rossetti)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 09:34:52 +0200
Subject: socket bug or not?
Message-ID: <4A8BAB1C.7090700@arimaz.com>

Hello everyone,

I found what was not working in my code (see Twisted mailing list topics 
"self.socket.accept() in doRead() in tcp.py has (11, 'Resource 
temporarily unavailable') error", "Twisted, PushProducer, Words & big 
msgs, any limit?" and Python mailing list topic "socket.send : (11, 
'Resource temporarily unavailable')"). I was just wondering if this was 
a bug or not, so here it is, I wrote aserver using twisted words' 
xmlstream class. When a client connects, it sends "" and the 
server also sends it, so a bi-directional xmlstream communication is 
established. This works fine, I at some point wrote a webservice to send 
msgs to my system, not using any twisted code, that sends a message to 
my server in this format : ".....". 
This worked fine as long as the messages were small, but if it send 
larger msgs (I tried +128k msgs) the server only received part of the 
msg and then the parser died because of this, so my msg appeared to be 
dropped. I discovered that it was because my webservice did not read the 
"" element sent by the server when it connected (since I was not 
interested in having a bidirectional xml stream communication with it), 
when I added the code to read it, everything worked as expected. I 
tested the webservice to without the server to see if it had a problem, 
using netcat, and it does, so I wonder if there is a bug in the socket 
code or not. Here is the test code :


###################### Listing 1 Start ######################
import socket, time
STREAM_START = ""
STREAM_END = ""

def sendTestMessage(host, port):
    msg = "" + ('a' * 175177) + ""
    burstSize = 4096
    sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
    sock.connect((host, port))
    sock.send(STREAM_START)
    time.sleep(5)
    while msg:
        sent = sock.send(msg[:burstSize])
        print "Sending %d bytes..." % sent
        if sent == 0:
            raise RuntimeError, "socket connection broken"
        msg = msg[burstSize:]
    sock.send(STREAM_END)
    sock.close()
###################### Listing 1 End ######################

To test it:

 1) open a python interpretor, copy-past the code above
 2) open another terminal and run netcat using the following command : 
nc -v -l -p 4444
 3) call the above function using : sendTestMessage("localhost", 4444), 
it will wait 5 seconds after having sent the , for the first 
test, just wait.

The message will be completely send and received by the netcat "server", 
now let's test the case I have, where the server sends a , to do 
that, repeat the above steps (you have to re-run netcat as it exits when 
the client disconnects), except in step 3 instead of just waiting, type 
 and press enter in the netcat terminal after having received 
the  element from the sending code. This time you will see that 
the message is incomplete.

If you send a smaller message, like by replacing the following line :

msg = "" + ('a' * 175177) + ""

with :

msg = "" + ('a' * (175177/4)) + ""

it works in both cases.

Now test the "fixed" code :

###################### Listing 2 Start ######################
import socket
STREAM_START = ""
STREAM_END = ""

def sendTestMessage(host, port):
    msg = "" + ('a' * 175177) + ""
    burstSize = 4096
    sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
    sock.connect((host, port))
    sock.send(STREAM_START)
    sock.recv(len(STREAM_START)+1)
    while msg:
        sent = sock.send(msg[:burstSize])
        print "Sending %d bytes..." % sent
        if sent == 0:
            raise RuntimeError, "socket connection broken"
        msg = msg[burstSize:]
    sock.send(STREAM_END)
    sock.close()
###################### Listing 2 End ######################

This time the code reads for the  element after sending the 
 element so it works, just try the steps described above, the 
ones where you have to type  and press enter in the netcat 
terminal and this time it works.

Is this a bug in the sockets code, or is this normal? If it's normal I 
think it should be mentioned somewhere. Oh, by the way, I use linux and 
this code was tested only on linux, I don't know if the problem also 
occurs on other platforms.

Gabriel


From digisatori at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 03:57:44 2009
From: digisatori at gmail.com (digisatori at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 00:57:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: expandtabs acts unexpectedly
Message-ID: <7e598693-c248-4304-bc46-ac79a8a3969b@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

Python 2.6.2 (release26-maint, Apr 19 2009, 01:56:41)
[GCC 4.3.3] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> ' test\ttest'.expandtabs(4)
' test   test'
>>> 'test \ttest'.expandtabs(4)
'test    test'

1st example: expect returning 4 spaces between 'test', 3 spaces
returned
2nd example: expect returning 5 spaces between 'test', 4 spaces
returned

Is it a bug or something, please advice.


From contact at xavierho.com  Wed Aug 19 04:10:49 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 18:10:49 +1000
Subject: expandtabs acts unexpectedly
In-Reply-To: <7e598693-c248-4304-bc46-ac79a8a3969b@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <7e598693-c248-4304-bc46-ac79a8a3969b@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908190110o57d6b345xc2010dd14f5d503a@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 5:57 PM, digisatori at gmail.com
wrote:

> Python 2.6.2 (release26-maint, Apr 19 2009, 01:56:41)
> [GCC 4.3.3] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> ' test\ttest'.expandtabs(4)
> ' test   test'
> >>> 'test \ttest'.expandtabs(4)
> 'test    test'
>
> Is it a bug or something, please advice.
> --


 It is completely working as intended. What were you expecting instead?

Regards,
-Xav
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From nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 04:12:48 2009
From: nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 08:12:48 GMT
Subject: Read C++ enum in python
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4a8b3342$0$25403$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	
Message-ID: <4uOim.12753$ze1.6481@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

AggieDan04:

> file_data = open(filename).read()
> # Remove comments and preprocessor directives
> file_data = ' '.join(line.split('//')[0].split('#')[0] for line in
> file_data.splitlines())
> file_data = ' '.join(re.split(r'\/\*.*\*\/', file_data))

   For some headers I tried it didn't work until the .* was changed to a
non-greedy .*? to avoid removing from the start of the first comment to
the end of the last comment.

file_data = ' '.join(re.split(r'\/\*.*?\*\/', file_data))

   Neil


From http  Wed Aug 19 04:13:41 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 19 Aug 2009 01:13:41 -0700
Subject: Parallelization in Python 2.6
References: <9d9e7278-d855-4066-b090-46d5060dc051@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<17baaedc-2eeb-4ede-b416-afed3c2b0fc8@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<54899d05-8e9b-4b91-b79d-9839cddfe2d7@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <7xbpmcnruy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Hendrik van Rooyen  writes:
> Just use thread then and thread.start_new_thread.
> It just works.

The GIL doesn't apply to threads made like that?!


From peter at peter-b.co.uk  Wed Aug 19 04:16:35 2009
From: peter at peter-b.co.uk (Peter Brett)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 09:16:35 +0100
Subject: expandtabs acts unexpectedly
References: <7e598693-c248-4304-bc46-ac79a8a3969b@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

"digisatori at gmail.com"  writes:

> Python 2.6.2 (release26-maint, Apr 19 2009, 01:56:41)
> [GCC 4.3.3] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> ' test\ttest'.expandtabs(4)
> ' test   test'
>>>> 'test \ttest'.expandtabs(4)
> 'test    test'
>
> 1st example: expect returning 4 spaces between 'test', 3 spaces
> returned
> 2nd example: expect returning 5 spaces between 'test', 4 spaces
> returned
>
> Is it a bug or something, please advice.

Consider where the 4-space tabstops are relative to those strings:

 test   test
test    test
^   ^   ^

So no, it's not a bug.

If you just want to replace the tab characters by spaces, use:

  >>> " test\ttest".replace("\t", "    ")
  ' test    test'
  >>> "test \ttest".replace("\t", "    ")
  'test     test'

HTH,

                               Peter

-- 
Peter Brett 
Remote Sensing Research Group
Surrey Space Centre


From user at example.net  Wed Aug 19 04:40:28 2009
From: user at example.net (superpollo)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 10:40:28 +0200
Subject: reading a text file
Message-ID: <4a8bba7d$0$40004$4fafbaef@reader3.news.tin.it>

hi clp

what's the difference between:

while True:
     input_line = sys.stdin.readline()
         if input_line:
             sys.stdout.write(input_line.upper())
         else:
             break

and:


while True:
     try:
         sys.stdout.write(sys.stdin.next().upper())
     except StopIteration:
         break

???



From http  Wed Aug 19 04:46:16 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 19 Aug 2009 01:46:16 -0700
Subject: reading a text file
References: <4a8bba7d$0$40004$4fafbaef@reader3.news.tin.it>
Message-ID: <7xocqci42v.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

superpollo  writes:
> while True:
>      try:
>          sys.stdout.write(sys.stdin.next().upper())
>      except StopIteration:
>          break

Maybe there is some subtle difference, but it looks like you really mean

   for line in sys.stdin:
       sys.stdout.write(line.upper())


From pierre.gaillard at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 04:48:43 2009
From: pierre.gaillard at gmail.com (Pierre)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 01:48:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: difference between 2 arrays
Message-ID: 

Hello,

I would like to know how to find the difference (set operation)
between 2 arrays :

a = array([1,2, 3,2,5,2])
b = array([1,2])
I want a - b = [3,5]

Well, the equivalence of setdiff in matlab...

I thought a.difference(b) could work, but no : AttributeError:
'numpy.ndarray' object has no attribute 'difference'

Thanks !


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Aug 19 04:52:13 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 10:52:13 +0200
Subject: Code formatting question: conditional expression
References: 
	
Message-ID: <7f1sptF2gcfgnU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

> BTW, from the (admittedly few) responses to my original post, it seems
> there's some sentiment that "conditional expressions" are a non-Pythonic
> misfeature. Interesting ...

No. I love them. But not if they are so large that they stretch over several
lines (or to many columns).

 foo = bar if cond else baz

is more than fine for me. But

 foo = I_need_to_do_something_really_complicated_here() if cond else baz

isn't, because one doesn't grasp as easily in one look that we're talking a
ternary operator here.

Diez


From james.harris.1 at googlemail.com  Wed Aug 19 04:52:22 2009
From: james.harris.1 at googlemail.com (James Harris)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 01:52:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Identifying a class type - bad practice?
References: <5a6e91f5-83c1-42a3-ab8a-082c4d8e840c@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <520f55a6-38ac-432b-97e7-ec327740645a@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On 18 Aug, 21:50, Chris Rebert  wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 10:09 AM, James
>
> Harris wrote:
> > I am writing some code to form a tree of nodes of different types. The
> > idea is to define one class per node type such as
>
> > class node_type_1(node):
> > ?
> > class node_type_2(node):
> > ?
> > etc
>
> > (Class "node" would hold any common properties).
>
> > When walking the tree I need to know what type of node I'm dealing
> > with so polymorphism isn't generally useful. The action to be taken
> > depends on the node type.
>
> I'm sure it relates to the exact type of tree you're walking and the
> calculation you're doing on it, but what is the reason why your code,
> which in the abstract sounds like it will vaguely resemble this:
>
> def walk_tree(tree):
> ? ? if isinstance(tree, node_type_1):
> ? ? ? ? #code
> ? ? ? ? walk_tree(subtree)
> ? ? elif isinstance(tree, node_type_2):
> ? ? ? ? #code
> ? ? ? ? walk_tree(subtree)
> ? ? #etc...
>
> can't be written instead as:
>
> class node_type_1:
> ? ? def walk_tree(self):
> ? ? ? ? #code
> ? ? ? ? self.subtree.walk()
>
> class node_type_2:
> ? ? def walk_tree(self):
> ? ? ? ? #code
> ? ? ? ? self.subtree.walk()
>
> #etc

Interesting idea. This may be a better and a more OO solution than
what I had in mind. I'm not sure if I can use this but I'll see how it
fits in as the work progresses.

The tree is for a compiler. Initially the tree is for parsing of
source code. Then it will need to be processed and changed as further
compiler phases are written. I don't know yet whether it will be
easier to modify the tree or to create a new one for each phase.

So I guess whether I use the idea depends on the commonality of
operations.

James


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Aug 19 04:54:16 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 10:54:16 +0200
Subject: difference between 2 arrays
References: 
Message-ID: <7f1stoF2gcfgnU2@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Pierre wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I would like to know how to find the difference (set operation)
> between 2 arrays :
> 
> a = array([1,2, 3,2,5,2])
> b = array([1,2])
> I want a - b = [3,5]
> 
> Well, the equivalence of setdiff in matlab...
> 
> I thought a.difference(b) could work, but no : AttributeError:
> 'numpy.ndarray' object has no attribute 'difference'

Not sure if this works with numpy-arrays, but

set(a) - set(b)

might just work if the arrays are iterable.

Diez


From enleverLesX_XXmcX at XmclavXeauX.com  Wed Aug 19 04:56:20 2009
From: enleverLesX_XXmcX at XmclavXeauX.com (Michel Claveau - MVP)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 10:56:20 +0200
Subject: difference between 2 arrays
References: 
Message-ID: <4a8bbe36$0$12654$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr>

(envoy? via news:\\news.wanadoo.fr\comp.lang.python)

Hi!

See the module "sets"

@-salutations 
-- 
Michel Claveau 


From enleverLesX_XXmcX at XmclavXeauX.com  Wed Aug 19 04:58:53 2009
From: enleverLesX_XXmcX at XmclavXeauX.com (Michel Claveau - MVP)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 10:58:53 +0200
Subject: difference between 2 arrays
References: 
Message-ID: <4a8bbecf$0$12634$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr>

Re ! 

Juste pour signaler qu'il existe un newsgroup en fran?ais sur Python, qui permet de recevoir des r?ponses en fran?ais (donc plus compl?tes/d?taill?es).

@-salutations
-- 
Michel Claveau 



From h.jaeger at medienkonzepte.de  Wed Aug 19 05:00:52 2009
From: h.jaeger at medienkonzepte.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Horst_J=E4ger?=)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 11:00:52 +0200
Subject: How to create ones own lib
Message-ID: 

Hi,

I would like to create my own lib "hotte.py" which I can import like


	import string,hotte

. How do I do that?

I'm working on MacOS 10.5.6 .

Thanks in advance



From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Aug 19 05:08:06 2009
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 11:08:06 +0200
Subject: reading a text file
References: <4a8bba7d$0$40004$4fafbaef@reader3.news.tin.it>
Message-ID: 

superpollo wrote:

> hi clp
> 
> what's the difference between:
> 
> while True:
>      input_line = sys.stdin.readline()
>          if input_line:
>              sys.stdout.write(input_line.upper())
>          else:
>              break
> 
> and:
> 
> 
> while True:
>      try:
>          sys.stdout.write(sys.stdin.next().upper())
>      except StopIteration:
>          break

You should write the latter as

for line in sys.stdin:
    sys.stdout.write(line.upper())

or 

sys.stdout.writelines(line.upper() for line in sys.stdin)

You seem to know already that next() and readline() use different ways to 
signal "I'm done with the file". Also, after the first StopIteration 
subsequent next() calls are guaranteed to raise a StopIteration. But the 
main difference is that file.next() uses an internal buffer, file.readline() 
doesn't. That means you would lose data if you tried to replace the 
readline() call below with next()

first_line = f.readline()
read_of_the_file = f.read()

In newer Python versions you will get a ValueError when mixing next() and 
read()/readline() but in older Pythons (before 2.5 I think) you are in for a 
surprise.

As 

for line in file: ...

is both the fastest and most readable approach if you want to access a file 
one line at a time I recommend that you use it unless there is a specific 
reason not to.

Peter



From gforgx at lavabit.com  Wed Aug 19 05:18:37 2009
From: gforgx at lavabit.com (Sergey Simonenko)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 03:18:37 -0600
Subject: Subclass dynamically
In-Reply-To: <69df1b9a-fbc2-4a04-bc43-713eeee23e1a@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
References: <69df1b9a-fbc2-4a04-bc43-713eeee23e1a@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 11:12:30 -0600, Robert Dailey   
wrote:

How can you subclass a class from an object?..

> Hey,
>
> I have a class that I want to have a different base class depending on
> a parameter that I pass to its __init__method. For example
> (pseudocode):
>
> class MyDerived( self.base ):
>   def __init__( self, base ):
>     self.base = base
>
>
> Something like that... and then I would do this:
>
> foo = MyDerived( MyBase() )
>
> Note I'm using Python 3.1 on Windows. Thanks in advance.


-- 
Kind regards, Sergey Simonenko.



From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Wed Aug 19 05:18:59 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 11:18:59 +0200
Subject: Scope and classes
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <4a8bc383$0$1556$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

Chris Rebert a ?crit :
(snip)
> To access class-level variables from within instance methods of the
> class, you have 2 options:
> A. Use the class name, i.e. Abc.message
> B. Reference the class indirectly, i.e. self.__class__.message

Or even simpler - *if* there's no synonym instance attribute:

=> self.message

Attribute lookup will try to resolve the attribute name on the class 
(and it's parent classes) if it's not found on the instance.



From contact at xavierho.com  Wed Aug 19 05:28:50 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 19:28:50 +1000
Subject: How to create ones own lib
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908190228q72edb74fr43274d9f253cf014@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 7:00 PM, Horst J?ger wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I would like to create my own lib "hotte.py" which I can import like
>
>
>        import string,hotte
>
> . How do I do that?
>

1) Have the hotte.py in the same directory of any of your other Python code
that imports it, or
2) Put the hotte.py file in the Python import directive, whose location I do
not know in Mac.. someone else will know, I'm sure =]

All in all, I'm pretty sure you don't have to compile it or anything, but it
can be an option.

Cheers,
Xav
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From bieffe62 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 05:30:10 2009
From: bieffe62 at gmail.com (Francesco Bochicchio)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 02:30:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to create ones own lib
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 19 Ago, 11:00, Horst J?ger  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I would like to create my own lib "hotte.py" which I can import like
>
> ? ? ? ? import string,hotte
>
> . How do I do that?
>
> I'm working on MacOS 10.5.6 .
>
> Thanks in advance

Just create the file 'hotte.py' and place it somewhere python can find
it, that is:
- in the same directory of the code using it (which is most probablyt
what you want to do )
- in a directory listed in  sys.path variable (which you can extend
using sys.path.append("full_path_of_my_library_directory") before
doing import hotte

There are other options, but these should cover your needs.

Ciao
-----
FB



From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Wed Aug 19 05:31:55 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 11:31:55 +0200
Subject: Scope and classes
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: <4a8bc68b$0$4054$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

David a ?crit :
(snip)

> Out of 'Abc.message' and 'self.message', which is the favoured
> convention? It would be very easy to accidentally override
> 'self.messages' with an instance attribute!

Only use 'Abc.message' if you want to make sure you get the Abc class 
'message' attribute - that is, if you want to skip possible overrides in 
subclasses. As far as I'm concerned, I'd tend to consider this bad style 
  unless it's a very very specific implementation point of an abstract 
class (in which case it would probably be named '__message' to prevent 
accidental override) - but YMMV of course.

Use 'self.__class__.message' (or 'type(self).message') if you want to 
make sure you get the class 'message' attribute - that is, if you want 
to honor possible overrides in subclasses, but not per-instance 
override. But then - at least in your example code - I'd use a classmethod:

class Abc:
     message = 'Hello World'

     @classmethod
     def print_message(cls):
         print cls.message


Now the most common idiom - that is, outside classmethods - is to just 
use 'self.message'. Someone (even you) might have a very valid reason to 
  override the 'message' attribute on a per-instance basis. FWIW, if you 
start to worry about possible accidental overrides here, then Python 
might not be the right language for you - nothing prevents "accidental" 
overrides of method and even the class (the '__class__' attribute) 
itself - yes, they are all attributes, and you can dynamically override 
them !-)


From Bill at SynectixLtd.com  Wed Aug 19 05:34:11 2009
From: Bill at SynectixLtd.com (Bill Davy)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 10:34:11 +0100
Subject: Read C++ enum in python
References: <4a8b3342$0$25403$426a34cc@news.free.fr><4A8B3E2D.7040702@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	
Message-ID: <7f1v8eF2i0es3U1@mid.individual.net>

"Mark Tolonen"  wrote in message 
news:mailman.89.1250666942.2854.python-list at python.org...
>
> "MRAB"  wrote in message 
> news:4A8B3E2D.7040702 at mrabarnett.plus.com...
>> Ludo wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I work in a very large project where we have C++ packages and pieces of 
>>> python code.
>>>
>>> I've been googleing for days but what I find seems really too 
>>> complicated for what I want to do.
>>>
>>> My business is, in python, to read enum definitions provided by the 
>>> header file of an c++ package.
>>> Of course I could open the .h file, read the enum and transcode it by 
>>> hand into a .py file but the package is regularly updated and thus is 
>>> the enum.
>>>
>>> My question is then simple : do we have :
>>>     - either a simple way in python to read the .h file, retrieve the 
>>> c++ enum and provide an access to it in my python script
>>>     - either a simple tool (in a long-term it would be automatically run 
>>> when the c++ package is compiled) generating from the .h file a .py file 
>>> containing the python definition of the enums ?
>>>
>>> Thank you for any suggestion.
>>
>> Speaking personally, I'd parse the .h file using a regular expression
>> (re module) and generate a .py file. Compilers typically have a way of
>> letting you run external scripts (eg batch files in Windows or, in this
>> case, a Python script) when an application is compiled.
>
> This is what 3rd party library pyparsing is great for:
>
> --------begin code----------
> from pyparsing import *
>
> # sample string with enums and other stuff
> sample = '''
>    stuff before
>
>    enum hello {
>        Zero,
>        One,
>        Two,
>        Three,
>        Five=5,
>        Six,
>        Ten=10
>    }
>
>    in the middle
>
>    enum blah
>    {
>        alpha,
>        beta,
>        gamma = 10 ,
>        zeta = 50
>    }
>
>    at the end
>    '''
>
> # syntax we don't want to see in the final parse tree
> _lcurl = Suppress('{')
> _rcurl = Suppress('}')
> _equal = Suppress('=')
> _comma = Suppress(',')
> _enum = Suppress('enum')
>
> identifier = Word(alphas,alphanums+'_')
> integer = Word(nums)
>
> enumValue = Group(identifier('name') + Optional(_equal + 
> integer('value')))
> enumList = Group(enumValue + ZeroOrMore(_comma + enumValue))
> enum = _enum + identifier('enum') + _lcurl + enumList('list') + _rcurl
>
> # find instances of enums ignoring other syntax
> for item,start,stop in enum.scanString(sample):
>    id = 0
>    for entry in item.list:
>        if entry.value != '':
>            id = int(entry.value)
>        print '%s_%s = %d' % (item.enum.upper(),entry.name.upper(),id)
>        id += 1
> --------------end code------------
>
> Output:
> HELLO_ZERO = 0
> HELLO_ONE = 1
> HELLO_TWO = 2
> HELLO_THREE = 3
> HELLO_FIVE = 5
> HELLO_SIX = 6
> HELLO_TEN = 10
> BLAH_ALPHA = 0
> BLAH_BETA = 1
> BLAH_GAMMA = 10
> BLAH_ZETA = 50
>
> -Mark
>
>


Python and pythoneers are amazing! 




From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Wed Aug 19 05:39:07 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 11:39:07 +0200
Subject: Identifying a class type - bad practice?
In-Reply-To: <520f55a6-38ac-432b-97e7-ec327740645a@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
References: <5a6e91f5-83c1-42a3-ab8a-082c4d8e840c@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<520f55a6-38ac-432b-97e7-ec327740645a@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a8bc83b$0$24683$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

James Harris a ?crit :
> On 18 Aug, 21:50, Chris Rebert  wrote:
(snip)
>> class node_type_1:
>>     def walk_tree(self):
>>         #code
>>         self.subtree.walk()
>>
>> class node_type_2:
>>     def walk_tree(self):
>>         #code
>>         self.subtree.walk()
>>
>> #etc
> 
> Interesting idea.

Basic OO stuff, really. I'd say it's even the whole point of OO.

(snip)

> The tree is for a compiler. Initially the tree is for parsing of
> source code. Then it will need to be processed and changed as further
> compiler phases are written. I don't know yet whether it will be
> easier to modify the tree or to create a new one for each phase.
> 
> So I guess whether I use the idea depends on the commonality of
> operations.

You may want to have a look at the "composite" and "visitor" design 
patterns. AST are canonical use case for these patterns.


HTH



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Wed Aug 19 05:47:36 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 11:47:36 +0200
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>	<90cd2c33-5f2d-4a29-b267-67f233ae2946@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>	<4A8ADF6D.2030405@sequans.com>	
	
Message-ID: <4A8BCA38.5030308@sequans.com>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2009-08-18, Simon Forman  wrote:
>
>   
>> Sexism, racism, homophobia, religious intolerance, etc., all
>> stem from a fundamental forgetfulness of our Unity in God (as
>> I would put it) and this is perhaps the single greatest cause
>> of human misery.
>>     
>
> You mean the single greatest cause of human misery isn't
> Microsoft Windows?
>
>   
No, emacs is responsible ! Hail to Vi !

JM



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Wed Aug 19 06:05:29 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 12:05:29 +0200
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
In-Reply-To: <50f98a4c0908182043i8a619fdydb9311eadf7cef9@mail.gmail.com>
References: 	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>	<90cd2c33-5f2d-4a29-b267-67f233ae2946@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>	<4A8ADF6D.2030405@sequans.com>		<0014c4c0$0$2963$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<50f98a4c0908182043i8a619fdydb9311eadf7cef9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A8BCE69.6030508@sequans.com>

Simon Forman wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 8:03 PM, Steven
> D'Aprano wrote:
>   
>> On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:13:02 -0400, Simon Forman wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> Sexism, racism, homophobia, religious intolerance, etc., all stem from a
>>> fundamental forgetfulness of our Unity in God (as I would put it) and
>>>       
>> Of the tens of thousands of Gods that people have invented, which is the
>> one we're supposed to believe in? I always forget which ones we're
>> supposed to dismiss as nonsense, and which one we're not.
>>     
>
> Why the heck are you asking me?  (I'd say "/you/ are the God you
> should believe in.")
>   

Steven, a God... funny :o)

No the only God we should surely  worship is Guido, our BDFL :bow:. That 
is not questionable, and those who dare will be hung by the balls. (In 
order to be fairly cruel we should find an appropriate torture for our 
ladies, I don't want to be tagged as sexist).

JM
 


From nick at craig-wood.com  Wed Aug 19 06:29:53 2009
From: nick at craig-wood.com (Nick Craig-Wood)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 05:29:53 -0500
Subject: How to create ones own lib
References: 
Message-ID: 

Horst J?ger  wrote:
>  I would like to create my own lib "hotte.py" which I can import like
> 
>  	import string,hotte
> 
>  . How do I do that?

One of the nice things about python is that you don't need to do
anything special to define a library.

Just define your classes / functions in hotte.py

then use them like

  import hotte

  hotte.MyClass()
  hotte.my_function()

See here for the relevant bit of the tutorial

  http://docs.python.org/tutorial/modules.html

-- 
Nick Craig-Wood  -- http://www.craig-wood.com/nick


From digisatori at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 06:40:44 2009
From: digisatori at gmail.com (digisatori at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 03:40:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: expandtabs acts unexpectedly
References: <7e598693-c248-4304-bc46-ac79a8a3969b@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <12da5573-4cc0-47ca-837c-b2d75a786eb1@p10g2000prm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 19, 4:16?pm, Peter Brett  wrote:
> "digisat... at gmail.com"  writes:
> > Python 2.6.2 (release26-maint, Apr 19 2009, 01:56:41)
> > [GCC 4.3.3] on linux2
> > Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>>> ' test\ttest'.expandtabs(4)
> > ' test ? test'
> >>>> 'test \ttest'.expandtabs(4)
> > 'test ? ?test'
>
> > 1st example: expect returning 4 spaces between 'test', 3 spaces
> > returned
> > 2nd example: expect returning 5 spaces between 'test', 4 spaces
> > returned
>
> > Is it a bug or something, please advice.
>
> Consider where the 4-space tabstops are relative to those strings:
>
> ?test ? test
> test ? ?test
> ^ ? ^ ? ^
>
> So no, it's not a bug.
>
> If you just want to replace the tab characters by spaces, use:
>
> ? >>> " test\ttest".replace("\t", " ? ?")
> ? ' test ? ?test'
> ? >>> "test \ttest".replace("\t", " ? ?")
> ? 'test ? ? test'
>
> HTH,
>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Peter
>
> --
> Peter Brett 
> Remote Sensing Research Group
> Surrey Space Centre

You corrected me for the understanding of tab stop. Great explanation.
Thank you so much.


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Aug 19 06:48:13 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 19:48:13 +0900
Subject: How to create functors?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	
	
Message-ID: 

Robert Dailey wrote:

> I'm using Python 2.6. And using the legacy syntax in the lambda does
> not work either. I want to avoid using a def if possible. Thanks.

In Python, writing

name = lambda arg: expr

instead of

def name(arg): return expr

is all negative and no positive and should be avoided.

Your experience illustrates one reason why.

tjr



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Aug 19 06:52:14 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 19:52:14 +0900
Subject: Raw Strings with Variables
In-Reply-To: <0d176354-bb6c-4da5-b9b8-b444f6a946e6@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
References: <0d176354-bb6c-4da5-b9b8-b444f6a946e6@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

WilsonOfCanada wrote:
> Hellos,
> 
> I know that if you have:
> 
> happy = r"C:\moo"
> print happy
> 
> you get C:\moo instead of C:\\moo
> 
> The thing is that I want to do this a variable instead.
> 
> ex. testline = fileName.readline()
>       rawtestline = r testline

Python does not have 'raw strings'. It only has 'raw string literals', 
which is to say, string literals with 'r' prepended to signal less 
processing (cooking) of the literal in the process of turning it into a 
string object.

tjr



From sleepy at cabbage.co.uk  Wed Aug 19 07:06:41 2009
From: sleepy at cabbage.co.uk (Sleepy Cabbage)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 11:06:41 GMT
Subject: urlopen errors in script
References: 
	
	
	
	<3Gxim.148238$XK2.30441@newsfe15.ams2>
Message-ID: <51Rim.226342$e11.13364@newsfe14.ams2>

On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:05:03 +0000, Sleepy Cabbage wrote:

> Thanks for the time you've spent anyway Peter. I have superkaramba
> installed and the rest of the script is running fine, it's only when I
> put the urlopen part in that it comes back with errors. The quotes are
> just to make it readable on here as my first attempt at posting muted
> the text.

This has been solved by upgrading to kde 4.3


From tino at wildenhain.de  Wed Aug 19 07:09:28 2009
From: tino at wildenhain.de (Tino Wildenhain)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 13:09:28 +0200
Subject: reading a text file
In-Reply-To: <4a8bba7d$0$40004$4fafbaef@reader3.news.tin.it>
References: <4a8bba7d$0$40004$4fafbaef@reader3.news.tin.it>
Message-ID: <4A8BDD68.4050108@wildenhain.de>

superpollo wrote:
> hi clp
> 
> what's the difference between:
> 
> while True:
>     input_line = sys.stdin.readline()
>         if input_line:
>             sys.stdout.write(input_line.upper())
>         else:
>             break
> 
> and:
> 
> 
> while True:
>     try:
>         sys.stdout.write(sys.stdin.next().upper())
>     except StopIteration:
>         break
> 

More useless code, under the hood its working similar.
But why not use it in the way intended?

for input_line in sys.stdin:
     sys.stdout.write(input_line.upper())

?

Regards
Tino
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From nuno.hespanhol at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 07:55:02 2009
From: nuno.hespanhol at gmail.com (Nuno Santos)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 12:55:02 +0100
Subject: Help with libxml2dom
Message-ID: <4A8BE816.9050901@gmail.com>

I have just started using libxml2dom to read html files and I have some 
questions I hope you guys can answer me.

The page I am working on (teste.htm):

  
    
      Title
    
  
  
    

      

        
            

        
        
           8/15/2009
        
      

    

  


 >>> import libxml2dom
 >>> foo = open('teste.htm', 'r')
 >>> str1 = foo.read()
 >>> doc = libxml2dom.parseString(str1, html=1)
 >>> html = doc.firstChild
 >>> html.nodeName
u'html'
 >>> head = html.firstChild
 >>> head.nodeName
u'head'
 >>> title = head.firstChild
 >>> title.nodeName
u'title'
 >>> body = head.nextSibling
 >>> body.nodeName
u'body'
 >>> table = body.firstChild
 >>> table.nodeName
u'text' #?! Why!? Shouldn't it be a table? (1)
 >>> table = body.firstChild.nextSibling #why this works? is there a 
text element hidden? (2)
 >>> table.nodeName
u'table'
 >>> tr = table.firstChild
 >>> tr.nodeName
u'tr'
 >>> td = tr.firstChild
 >>> td.nodeName
u'td'
 >>> font = td.firstChild
 >>> font.nodeName
u'text' # (1)
 >>> font = td.firstChild.nextSibling # (2)
 >>> font.nodeName
u'font'
 >>> a = font.firstChild
 >>> a.nodeName
u'text' #(1)
 >>> a = font.firstChild.nextSibling #(2)
 >>> a.nodeName
u'a'


It seems like sometimes there are some text elements 'hidden'. This is 
probably a standard in DOM I simply am not familiar with this and I 
would very much appreciate if anyone had the kindness to explain me this.

Thanks.


From kannan4k at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 08:09:16 2009
From: kannan4k at gmail.com (Kannan)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 17:39:16 +0530
Subject: About Python Symbian 60
Message-ID: 

Hi friends....
I want a Python SDK like Netbeans to work with the Symbian 60 python.
I don't have the Symbian 60 mobile.I create some Apps for S60 Platform.To
execute that i want this....
Help me..






With regards,

Kannan. R. P,
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From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Wed Aug 19 08:16:17 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 05:16:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Parallelization in Python 2.6
References: <9d9e7278-d855-4066-b090-46d5060dc051@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On 18 Aug, 11:19, Robert Dailey  wrote:

> I'm looking for a way to parallelize my python script without using
> typical threading primitives. For example, C++ has pthreads and TBB to
> break things into "tasks".

In C++, parallelization without "typical threading primitives" usually
means one of three things:

- OpenMP pragmas
- the posix function fork(), unless you are using Windows
- MPI

In Python, you find the function os.fork and wrappers for MPI, and
they are used as in C++. With os.fork, I like to use a context
manager, putting the calls to fork in __enter__ and the calls to
sys.exit in __exit__. Then I can just write code like this:

with parallel():
   # parallel block here

You can also program in the same style as OpenMP using closures. Just
wrap whatever loop or block you want to execute in parallel in a
closure. It requires minimal edition of the serial code. Instead of

def foobar():
   for i in iterable:
       #whatever

you can add a closure (internal function) and do this:

def foobar():
   def section(): # add a closure
       for i in sheduled(iterable): # balance load
           #whatever
   parallel(section) # spawn off threads

Programs written in C++ are much more difficult to parallelize with
threads because C++ do not have closures. This is why pragma-based
parallelization (OpenMP) was invented:

#pragma omp parallel for private(i)
for (i=0; i

Hi,

Is there any package to edit the existing excel cell data using python
or
to create excel charts using python....

please help.

Thanks,


From davea at ieee.org  Wed Aug 19 08:27:43 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 08:27:43 -0400
Subject: Parallelization in Python 2.6
In-Reply-To: <200908190931.18297.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
References: <9d9e7278-d855-4066-b090-46d5060dc051@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>	<17baaedc-2eeb-4ede-b416-afed3c2b0fc8@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>	<54899d05-8e9b-4b91-b79d-9839cddfe2d7@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<200908190931.18297.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
Message-ID: <4A8BEFBF.4010905@ieee.org>

Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:
> On Tuesday 18 August 2009 22:45:38 Robert Dailey wrote:
>
>   
>> Really, all I'm trying to do is the most trivial type of
>> parallelization. Take two functions, execute them in parallel. This
>> type of parallelization is called "embarrassingly parallel", and is
>> the simplest form. There are no dependencies between the two
>> functions. They do requires read-only access to shared data, though.
>> And if they are being spawned as sub-processes this could cause
>> problems, unless the multiprocess module creates pipelines or other
>> means to handle this situation.
>>     
>
> Just use thread then and thread.start_new_thread.
> It just works.
>
> - Hendrik
>
>   
But if you do it that way, it's slower than sequential.  And if you have 
a multi-core processor, or two processors, or ...   then it gets much 
slower yet, and slows down other tasks as well.

With the current GIL implementation, for two CPU-bound tasks, you either 
do them sequentially, or make a separate process.

Now, you can share data between separate processes, and if the data is 
truly going to be readonly, you shouldn't have any locking issues.

Naturally you should do your own timings.  Maybe your particular CPU and 
OS will have different results.

DaveA



From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Wed Aug 19 08:31:37 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 05:31:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Parallelization in Python 2.6
References: <9d9e7278-d855-4066-b090-46d5060dc051@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<17baaedc-2eeb-4ede-b416-afed3c2b0fc8@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com> 
	<54899d05-8e9b-4b91-b79d-9839cddfe2d7@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <250fb031-d955-45a7-8089-a3973f9af307@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On 18 Aug, 13:45, Robert Dailey  wrote:

> Really, all I'm trying to do is the most trivial type of
> parallelization. Take two functions, execute them in parallel. This
> type of parallelization is called "embarrassingly parallel", and is
> the simplest form. There are no dependencies between the two
> functions.

If you are using Linux or Mac, just call os.fork for this.

You should also know that you function "create_task" is simply

from threading import Thread
def create_task(task):
   Thread(target=task).start()

If your task releases the GIL, this will work fine.


> They do requires read-only access to shared data, though.
> And if they are being spawned as sub-processes this could cause
> problems, unless the multiprocess module creates pipelines or other
> means to handle this situation.

With forking or multiprocessing, you have to use IPC. That is, usually
pipes, unix sockets / named pipes, or shared memory. Multiprocessing
helps you with this. Multiprocessing also has a convinient Queue
object for serialised read/write access to a pipe.

You can also create shared memory with mmap.mmap, using fd 0 with
Windows or -1 with Linux.











From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Wed Aug 19 08:34:17 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 14:34:17 +0200
Subject: Parallelization in Python 2.6
In-Reply-To: <7xbpmcnruy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <9d9e7278-d855-4066-b090-46d5060dc051@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	
	<7xbpmcnruy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <200908191434.17399.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Wednesday 19 August 2009 10:13:41 Paul Rubin wrote:
> Hendrik van Rooyen  writes:
> > Just use thread then and thread.start_new_thread.
> > It just works.
>
> The GIL doesn't apply to threads made like that?!

The GIL does apply - I was talking nonsense again.  Misread the OP's 
intention.

- Hendrik



From tim.wintle at teamrubber.com  Wed Aug 19 08:36:40 2009
From: tim.wintle at teamrubber.com (Tim Wintle)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 13:36:40 +0100
Subject: Excel edit using python
In-Reply-To: <405ea65b-434b-4b93-914f-c0ddbf92077f@2g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
References: <405ea65b-434b-4b93-914f-c0ddbf92077f@2g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1250685400.4676.8.camel@tim-laptop>

On Wed, 2009-08-19 at 05:25 -0700, suman wrote:
> 
> Is there any package to edit the existing excel cell data using python
> or
> to create excel charts using python....

Chris, Chris, where are you?

http://www.python-excel.org/

Site provided by Chris Withers:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2009-June/716845.html


Tim Wintle



From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Wed Aug 19 08:39:15 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 05:39:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Parallelization in Python 2.6
References: <9d9e7278-d855-4066-b090-46d5060dc051@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<17baaedc-2eeb-4ede-b416-afed3c2b0fc8@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com> 
	<54899d05-8e9b-4b91-b79d-9839cddfe2d7@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<200908190931.18297.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
	
Message-ID: 

On 19 Aug, 05:27, Dave Angel  wrote:

> But if you do it that way, it's slower than sequential. ?And if you have
> a multi-core processor, or two processors, or ... ? then it gets much
> slower yet, and slows down other tasks as well.
>
> With the current GIL implementation, for two CPU-bound tasks, you either
> do them sequentially, or make a separate process.

For CPU bound tasks, one should put the bottleneck in C/Fortran/Cython
and release the GIL. There is a speed penalty of 200x from using
Python instead of C. With a quadcore processor you can gain less than
4x speed-up by parallelizing. If you really care enough about speed to
write parallel code, the first thing you should do is migrate the
bottleneck to C.










From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Wed Aug 19 08:40:59 2009
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 13:40:59 +0100
Subject: Parallelization in Python 2.6
In-Reply-To: 
References: <9d9e7278-d855-4066-b090-46d5060dc051@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

sturlamolden wrote:

> The human brain is bad at detecting
> computational bottlenecks though. So it almost always pays off to
> write everything in Python first, and use the profiler to locate the
> worst offenders.

+1 QOTW

-- 
MPH
http://blog.dcuktec.com
'If consumed, best digested with added seasoning to own preference.'


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Aug 19 08:45:13 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 14:45:13 +0200
Subject: Help with libxml2dom
References: 
Message-ID: <7f2aepF2i8bttU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Nuno Santos wrote:

> I have just started using libxml2dom to read html files and I have some
> questions I hope you guys can answer me.
> 
> The page I am working on (teste.htm):
> 
>   
>     
>       Title
>     
>   
>   
>     
>       
>         
>         
>       
>     

>            
> 
>         
>            8/15/2009
>         

>   
> 
> 
>  >>> import libxml2dom
>  >>> foo = open('teste.htm', 'r')
>  >>> str1 = foo.read()
>  >>> doc = libxml2dom.parseString(str1, html=1)
>  >>> html = doc.firstChild
>  >>> html.nodeName
> u'html'
>  >>> head = html.firstChild
>  >>> head.nodeName
> u'head'
>  >>> title = head.firstChild
>  >>> title.nodeName
> u'title'
>  >>> body = head.nextSibling
>  >>> body.nodeName
> u'body'
>  >>> table = body.firstChild
>  >>> table.nodeName
> u'text' #?! Why!? Shouldn't it be a table? (1)
>  >>> table = body.firstChild.nextSibling #why this works? is there a
> text element hidden? (2)
>  >>> table.nodeName
> u'table'
>  >>> tr = table.firstChild
>  >>> tr.nodeName
> u'tr'
>  >>> td = tr.firstChild
>  >>> td.nodeName
> u'td'
>  >>> font = td.firstChild
>  >>> font.nodeName
> u'text' # (1)
>  >>> font = td.firstChild.nextSibling # (2)
>  >>> font.nodeName
> u'font'
>  >>> a = font.firstChild
>  >>> a.nodeName
> u'text' #(1)
>  >>> a = font.firstChild.nextSibling #(2)
>  >>> a.nodeName
> u'a'
> 
> 
> It seems like sometimes there are some text elements 'hidden'. This is
> probably a standard in DOM I simply am not familiar with this and I
> would very much appreciate if anyone had the kindness to explain me this.

Without a schema or something similar, a parser can't tell if whitespace is
significant or not. So if you have 


  


you will have not 2, but 4 nodes - root, text containing a newline + 2
spaces, child, and again a text with a newline.

You have to skip over those that you are not interested in, or use a
different XML-library such as ElementTree (e.g. in the form of lxml) that
has a different approach about text-nodes.

Diez


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Wed Aug 19 08:51:48 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 14:51:48 +0200
Subject: recording input from USB port and write to text file
References: 
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Allan  (A) wrote:

>A> Hi! I'm fairly new to Python.  I understand the basics basics but I'm
>A> been trying to write a simple python code that will let me read input
>A> data (such as mouse movement) from my USB port and write it in a text
>A> file and I am so lost.  Can anyone help or direct me to some
>A> resources?  Thank you!

You could try http://sourceforge.net/projects/pyusb/
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Wed Aug 19 08:56:21 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 05:56:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Parallelization in Python 2.6
References: <9d9e7278-d855-4066-b090-46d5060dc051@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4575acc6-6045-4b5e-9a60-6dbde6b6d5db@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On 19 Aug, 05:16, sturlamolden  wrote:

> You should know about the GIL. It prevents multiple threads form using
> the Python interpreter simultaneously. For parallel computing, this is
> a blessing and a curse. Only C extensions can release the GIL; this
> includes I/0 routines in Python's standard library. If the GIL is not
> released, the C library call are guaranteed to be thread-safe.
> However, the Python interpreter will be blocked while waiting for the
> library call to return. If the GIL is released, parallelization works
> as expected; you can also utilise multi-core CPUs (it is a common
> misbelief that Python cannot do this).


Since I am at it, this is how the GIL can be released:

- Many functions in Python's standard library, particularly all
blocking i/o functions, release the GIL.

- In C or C++ extensions, use the macros Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS and
Py_END_ALLOW_THREADS.

- With ctypes, functions called from a cdll release the GIL, whereas
functions called from a pydll do not.

- In f2py, declaring a Fortran function threadsafe in a .pyf file or
cf2py comment releases the GIL.

- In Cython or Pyrex, use a "with nogil:" block to execute code
without holding the GIL.


Regards,
Sturla Molden



























From piet at cs.uu.nl  Wed Aug 19 08:59:43 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 14:59:43 +0200
Subject: Subclass dynamically
References: <69df1b9a-fbc2-4a04-bc43-713eeee23e1a@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Robert Dailey  (RD) wrote:

>RD> Hey,
>RD> I have a class that I want to have a different base class depending on
>RD> a parameter that I pass to its __init__method. For example
>RD> (pseudocode):

>RD> class MyDerived( self.base ):
>RD>   def __init__( self, base ):
>RD>     self.base = base


>RD> Something like that... and then I would do this:

>RD> foo = MyDerived( MyBase() )

What do you want? As you write it now foo would be an instance of
MyDerived, but you say you want to have a class with a different base
class...

So does this mean that foo should become that class or that foo should
become an instance of a new anonymous class that has a specified base
class?

And on the other hand is MyBase the required base class. But you pass an
instance of MyBase, not MyBase itself. As you have it above MyBase()
should be a class, therefore MyBase should be a metaclass. Or is that
not what you want?
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Aug 19 09:12:55 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 15:12:55 +0200
Subject: recording input from USB port and write to text file
References: 
	
Message-ID: <7f2c2nF2i8qovU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Piet van Oostrum wrote:

>>>>>> Allan  (A) wrote:
> 
>>A> Hi! I'm fairly new to Python.  I understand the basics basics but I'm
>>A> been trying to write a simple python code that will let me read input
>>A> data (such as mouse movement) from my USB port and write it in a text
>>A> file and I am so lost.  Can anyone help or direct me to some
>>A> resources?  Thank you!
> 
> You could try http://sourceforge.net/projects/pyusb/

As I said - this is more complicated as it appears. HID-devices will be
captured by the OS and can't be accessed by libusb then (with good reason -
otherwise writing a keylogger is something not even kernel-space is needed
anymore)

Diez


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Wed Aug 19 09:14:01 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 06:14:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Parallelization in Python 2.6
References: <9d9e7278-d855-4066-b090-46d5060dc051@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<17baaedc-2eeb-4ede-b416-afed3c2b0fc8@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com> 
	<54899d05-8e9b-4b91-b79d-9839cddfe2d7@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<200908190931.18297.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
	
Message-ID: 

On 19 Aug, 05:27, Dave Angel  wrote:

> With the current GIL implementation, for two CPU-bound tasks, you either
> do them sequentially, or make a separate process.

I'd also like to add that most compute-bound code should be delegated
to specialized C libraries, many of which are prewritten. For example,
FFTW, Intel MKL, ATLAS, LAPACK, NAG. When you do this, the GIL has no
consequence unless it is kept locked. So even for scientific programs,
writing parallel compute-bound code mostly involves calling into a C
or Fortran library with the GIL released. I have yet to see compute-
bound code that could not be easily migrated to C or Fortran, either
using existing libraries (the common case) or specialised code.


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Wed Aug 19 09:18:16 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 06:18:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Parallelization in Python 2.6
References: <9d9e7278-d855-4066-b090-46d5060dc051@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	
	<7xbpmcnruy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> 
	
Message-ID: 

On 19 Aug, 05:34, Hendrik van Rooyen  wrote:

> The GIL does apply - I was talking nonsense again. ?Misread the OP's
> intention.

It depends on what the OP's functions "doStuff1" and "doStuff2"
actually do. If they release the GIL (e.g. make I/O calls) it does not
apply. The GIL only serialize access to the interpreter.



From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Wed Aug 19 09:31:20 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 06:31:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Parallelization in Python 2.6
References: <9d9e7278-d855-4066-b090-46d5060dc051@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<4a8af5ce$0$30224$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <9d96a617-75b2-413f-bb8a-81d51e42197c@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On 18 Aug, 11:41, Stefan Behnel  wrote:

> I think the canonical answer is to use the threading module or (preferably)
> the multiprocessing module, which is new in Py2.6.
>
> http://docs.python.org/library/threading.htmlhttp://docs.python.org/library/multiprocessing.html
>
> Both share a (mostly) common interface and are simple enough to use. They
> are pretty close to the above interface already.

There is a big difference between them, which is that multiprocessing
do not work with closures. This means that the threading module is
simpler to use than multiprocessing if you want to parallelize serial
code. You just wrap a closure around whatever block of code you want
to run in a thread. For the same reason, programming with OpenMP is
easier than using pthreads directly in C/C++. C does not have
closures, which is the raison d'etre for OpenMP. Multiprocessing has
the same limitation as abstraction for parallel programming as
pthreads in C. Python's threading module do not, but the GIL can be a
limitation.








From ndbecker2 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 09:41:58 2009
From: ndbecker2 at gmail.com (Neal Becker)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 09:41:58 -0400
Subject: Parallelization in Python 2.6
References: <9d9e7278-d855-4066-b090-46d5060dc051@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<4a8af5ce$0$30224$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net>
	<9d96a617-75b2-413f-bb8a-81d51e42197c@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

sturlamolden wrote:

> On 18 Aug, 11:41, Stefan Behnel  wrote:
> 
>> I think the canonical answer is to use the threading module or
>> (preferably) the multiprocessing module, which is new in Py2.6.
>>
>> 
http://docs.python.org/library/threading.htmlhttp://docs.python.org/library/multiprocessing.html
>>
>> Both share a (mostly) common interface and are simple enough to use. They
>> are pretty close to the above interface already.
> 
> There is a big difference between them, which is that multiprocessing
> do not work with closures. This means that the threading module is
> simpler to use than multiprocessing if you want to parallelize serial
> code. You just wrap a closure around whatever block of code you want
> to run in a thread.

Do you have an example of this technique?




From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Wed Aug 19 09:43:38 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 15:43:38 +0200
Subject: Subclass dynamically
In-Reply-To: <69df1b9a-fbc2-4a04-bc43-713eeee23e1a@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
References: <69df1b9a-fbc2-4a04-bc43-713eeee23e1a@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a8c0189$0$9983$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

Robert Dailey a ?crit :
> Hey,
> 
> I have a class that I want to have a different base class depending on
> a parameter that I pass to its __init__method. For example
> (pseudocode):
> 
> class MyDerived( self.base ):
>   def __init__( self, base ):
>     self.base = base
> 
> 
> Something like that... and then I would do this:
> 
> foo = MyDerived( MyBase() )


What is your real use case ? I mean, what problem are you actually 
trying to solve this way ?



From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Wed Aug 19 09:48:48 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 15:48:48 +0200
Subject: Code formatting question: conditional expression
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <4a8c02bf$0$716$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Richard Brodie a ?crit :
> "John Posner"  wrote in message 
> news:mailman.26.1250604346.2854.python-list at python.org...
> 
>>  if total > P.BASE:
>>      excessblk = Block(total - P.BASE, srccol, carry_button_suppress=True)
>>  else:
>>      excessblk = None
> 
> I wonder if it is appropriate to replace the None sentinel with one that is an instance
> of Block() e.g.
> 
> size = total - P.BASE
> excessblk = Block(size, srccol, carry_button_suppress=True, empty_block=(size <= 0) )

In which case the last param is possibly redundant - the Block object 
knows its size, so it might be able to know by itself if it's empty.

NB : please notice the 'possibly' and 'might' cautions !-)


From mczwhiners at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 19 09:50:44 2009
From: mczwhiners at yahoo.com (Smeagol)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 06:50:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: NOOB: Developing using python on two different computers
Message-ID: <610dc365-476f-4c5d-a307-b7b4141244ba@q40g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

Hi there,

Occasionally I have to develop on two different computers, and I was
wondering if there was a way to copy the python "environment" from one
to the other?

Access to the data is trivial (networked database) but various
packages etc exist on one computer, and I want to ensure I have
everything package-wise on the other.

Both are "windows" machines (native windows box and a Macbook with
VMWare running XP)...

Is it as simple as copying the Python directory, or is there a script
I can run that will tell me what packages are installed on the native
windows box and then I can use easy_install to update the VM partition
on the Macbook?

Much obliged for any help.


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Wed Aug 19 09:56:08 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 15:56:08 +0200
Subject: How to create functors?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 		
	
Message-ID: <4a8c0478$0$2752$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Terry Reedy a ?crit :
> Robert Dailey wrote:
> 
>> I'm using Python 2.6. And using the legacy syntax in the lambda does
>> not work either. I want to avoid using a def if possible. Thanks.
> 
> In Python, writing
> 
> name = lambda arg: expr
> 
> instead of
> 
> def name(arg): return expr
> 
> is all negative and no positive and should be avoided.

Except that def is a statement, and as such can't be used as a named 
params when calling a function expecting a callback, ie:

vroom = some_dead('parrot', name=lambda arg: exp)

(notice the 'name = lambda arg: exp' ?-)

Ok, nitpicking. Me --->[]




From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Wed Aug 19 10:06:28 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 07:06:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: difference between 2 arrays
References: 
	<4a8bbe36$0$12654$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 19, 6:56?pm, "Michel Claveau -
MVP" wrote:

> See the module "sets"

See especially the notice at the front of the current sets doc which
says "deprecated since 2.6" and the comparison down the end which
explains why the built-in set() and frozenset() are better than the
sets module. Starting now to use the sets module is not a good idea
unless the OP is stuck on using Python 2.3 .


From paul at boddie.org.uk  Wed Aug 19 10:10:08 2009
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 07:10:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Help with libxml2dom
References: 
Message-ID: <55183f22-2687-4426-b38d-054743b9f150@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On 19 Aug, 13:55, Nuno Santos  wrote:
> I have just started using libxml2dom to read html files and I have some
> questions I hope you guys can answer me.

[...]

> ?>>> table = body.firstChild
> ?>>> table.nodeName
> u'text' #?! Why!? Shouldn't it be a table? (1)

You answer this yourself just below.

> ?>>> table = body.firstChild.nextSibling #why this works? is there a
> text element hidden? (2)
> ?>>> table.nodeName
> u'table'

Yes, in the DOM, the child nodes of elements include text nodes, and
even though one might regard the whitespace before the first child
element and that appearing after the last child element as
unimportant, the DOM keeps it around in case it really is important.

[...]

> It seems like sometimes there are some text elements 'hidden'. This is
> probably a standard in DOM I simply am not familiar with this and I
> would very much appreciate if anyone had the kindness to explain me this.

Well, the nodes are actually there: they're whitespace used to provide
the indentation in your example. I recommend using XPath to get actual
elements:

table = body.xpath("*")[0] # get child elements and then select the
first

Although people make a big "song and dance" about the DOM being a
nasty API, it's quite bearable if you use it together with XPath
queries.

Paul


From invalid at invalid  Wed Aug 19 10:14:11 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 09:14:11 -0500
Subject: Parallelization in Python 2.6
References: <9d9e7278-d855-4066-b090-46d5060dc051@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<17baaedc-2eeb-4ede-b416-afed3c2b0fc8@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<54899d05-8e9b-4b91-b79d-9839cddfe2d7@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<4a8b9ef4$0$31865$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-19, Stefan Behnel  wrote:
> Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

>> 	If they are number crunchers (CPU-bound) and don't make use of
>> binary extension libraries that release the GIL (for the most common
>> Python implementation), they'll run faster being called in sequence
>> since you won't have the overhead of task switching.
>
> ... unless, obviously, the hardware is somewhat up to date
> (which is not that uncommon for number crunching environments)
> and can execute more than one thing at once.

Even with multiple processors, it'll still be faster to call
them sequentially in a single thread than run them sequentially
in multiple threads with the GIL serializing them.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Gibble, Gobble, we
                                  at               ACCEPT YOU ...
                               visi.com            


From baaluaanand at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 10:20:05 2009
From: baaluaanand at gmail.com (baalu aanand)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 07:20:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: difference between 2 arrays
References: 
Message-ID: <9a598f0b-f694-4011-b567-1d089f4062e7@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 19, 1:48?pm, Pierre  wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I would like to know how to find the difference (set operation)
> between 2 arrays :
>
> a = array([1,2, 3,2,5,2])
> b = array([1,2])
> I want a - b = [3,5]
>
> Well, the equivalence of setdiff in matlab...
>
> I thought a.difference(b) could work, but no : AttributeError:
> 'numpy.ndarray' object has no attribute 'difference'
>
> Thanks !



Hi,

  Here I have given my logic, check whether it helps for you

a = [1,2, 3,2,5,2]
b = [1,2]
j = 0
dif = []
for i in range(len(a)) :
   if a[i] not in b:
     dif.append(a[i])
     j += 1

print dif[k]



Thanks
Baalu


From baaluaanand at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 10:25:55 2009
From: baaluaanand at gmail.com (baalu aanand)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 07:25:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: difference between 2 arrays
References: 
Message-ID: <1da8e2d5-7a43-4b8c-b447-07f4f8e2f249@z24g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 19, 1:48?pm, Pierre  wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I would like to know how to find the difference (set operation)
> between 2 arrays :
>
> a = array([1,2, 3,2,5,2])
> b = array([1,2])
> I want a - b = [3,5]
>
> Well, the equivalence of setdiff in matlab...
>
> I thought a.difference(b) could work, but no : AttributeError:
> 'numpy.ndarray' object has no attribute 'difference'
>
> Thanks !

Hi,

  Here I have given my logic, check whether it helps for you

a = [1,2, 3,2,5,2]
b = [1,2]
j = 0
dif = []
for i in range(len(a)) :
   if a[i] not in b:
     dif.append(a[i])
     j += 1

print dif

Thanks
Baalu


From mhuening at zedat.fu-berlin.de  Wed Aug 19 10:44:48 2009
From: mhuening at zedat.fu-berlin.de (Matthias Huening)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 16:44:48 +0200
Subject: difference between 2 arrays
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7f2heuF2hnhj3U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Pierre (19.08.2009 10:48):
> Hello,
> 
> I would like to know how to find the difference (set operation)
> between 2 arrays :
> 
> a = array([1,2, 3,2,5,2])
> b = array([1,2])
> I want a - b = [3,5]
> 

What about set()?

 >>> a = set([1,2, 3,2,5,2])
 >>> b = set([1,2])
 >>> a.difference(b)
set([3, 5])


Matthias


From jhnhndly at aol.com  Wed Aug 19 10:52:56 2009
From: jhnhndly at aol.com (La Vie Spirituelle)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 16:52:56 +0200
Subject: New message
Message-ID: 

Test
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

From drobinow at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 11:15:07 2009
From: drobinow at gmail.com (David Robinow)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 11:15:07 -0400
Subject: difference between 2 arrays
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4eb0089f0908190815h867d13ci23494b54d1e06947@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 4:48 AM, Pierre wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I would like to know how to find the difference (set operation)
> between 2 arrays :
>
> a = array([1,2, 3,2,5,2])
> b = array([1,2])
> I want a - b = [3,5]
>
> Well, the equivalence of setdiff in matlab...
>
> I thought a.difference(b) could work, but no : AttributeError:
> 'numpy.ndarray' object has no attribute 'difference'
>
> Thanks !
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

import numpy
a = numpy.array([1,2,3,2,5,2])
b = numpy.array([1,2])
c = list(set(a)-set(b))
# or c = numpy.array(list(set(a)-set(b)))   if you want to continue w/ arrays
print c


From olivier.anospamrnospamnnospamanospamenospamz at affaires.net  Wed Aug 19 11:37:56 2009
From: olivier.anospamrnospamnnospamanospamenospamz at affaires.net (Ludo)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 17:37:56 +0200
Subject: Read C++ enum in python
In-Reply-To: <4uOim.12753$ze1.6481@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
References: <4a8b3342$0$25403$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	
	<4uOim.12753$ze1.6481@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <4a8c1c55$0$420$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Neil Hodgson a ?crit :
> 
>    For some headers I tried it didn't work until the .* was changed to a
> non-greedy .*? to avoid removing from the start of the first comment to
> the end of the last comment.
> 
> file_data = ' '.join(re.split(r'\/\*.*?\*\/', file_data))

Thank you ! I adopt it !

Cheers.


From gunterhenriksen at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 11:43:55 2009
From: gunterhenriksen at gmail.com (Gunter Henriksen)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 08:43:55 -0700
Subject: warnings.warn vs logging.warning
Message-ID: 

When I want to issue a warning, I am uncertain
about the distinction between warnings.warn() and
logging.warning().  My naive thought is to presume
"warning" means the same thing in both cases, and
so if I call logging.warning(), it should take
care of making sure something equivalent to my
calling warnings.warn() will happen... more than
just having a message go to wherever a message
to warnings.warn() would go.  If I want to utilize
the capabilities of both mechanisms (like having
an exception raised), should I call both functions?


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Aug 19 11:52:29 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 17:52:29 +0200
Subject: difference between 2 arrays
References: 
	<9a598f0b-f694-4011-b567-1d089f4062e7@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7f2ldtF2gd9ttU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

baalu aanand wrote:

> On Aug 19, 1:48?pm, Pierre  wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I would like to know how to find the difference (set operation)
>> between 2 arrays :
>>
>> a = array([1,2, 3,2,5,2])
>> b = array([1,2])
>> I want a - b = [3,5]
>>
>> Well, the equivalence of setdiff in matlab...
>>
>> I thought a.difference(b) could work, but no : AttributeError:
>> 'numpy.ndarray' object has no attribute 'difference'
>>
>> Thanks !
> 
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
>   Here I have given my logic, check whether it helps for you
> 
> a = [1,2, 3,2,5,2]
> b = [1,2]
> j = 0
> dif = []
> for i in range(len(a)) :
>    if a[i] not in b:
>      dif.append(a[i])
>      j += 1
> 
> print dif[k]


EEEK, quadratic behavior!!

Diez


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 12:17:16 2009
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 09:17:16 -0700
Subject: difference between 2 arrays
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-19 01:48 AM, Pierre wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I would like to know how to find the difference (set operation)
> between 2 arrays :
>
> a = array([1,2, 3,2,5,2])
> b = array([1,2])
> I want a - b = [3,5]
>
> Well, the equivalence of setdiff in matlab...

You will want to ask numpy questions on the numpy mailing list.

   http://www.scipy.org/Mailing_Lists

Using set() is frequently a good option, but for large arrays, you will want to 
avoid the overhead of converting to and from sets and use numpy.setdiff1d(a, b):

In [2]: a = array([1,2, 3,2,5,2])

In [3]: b = array([1,2])

In [4]: numpy.setdiff1d(a, b)
Out[4]: array([3, 5])

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From markscottwright at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 12:49:07 2009
From: markscottwright at gmail.com (markscottwright)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 09:49:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How do I convert an iterator over bytes into a str?
References: <3e3d2ebd-df8a-42a8-9420-0439a965a0d5@v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <2c212222-0dac-4bd3-8130-5bd302d12dd5@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 18, 6:52?pm, "Jan Kaliszewski"  wrote:
> 19-08-2009 o 00:24:20 markscottwright  wrote:
>
> > What's the correct way to turn an iterator over bytes into a string?
> > This works, but, ewww:
> > ? ? In [8]: "".join(iter("four score and seven years ago"))
> > ? ? Out[8]: 'four score and seven years ago'
>
> But it is the correct way (and even recommended over s=s+t or s+=t, when
> applicable
> -- see: ?http://docs.python.org/library/stdtypes.html#sequence-types-str-unico...).
>
> Cheers,
> *j
>
> --
> Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 

Thanks Jan (and all other responders).  I suppose I shouldn't be
surprised - it's a known wart (http://wiki.python.org/moin/
PythonWarts), but it just looks so darn wrong.  It is, as you point
out, much faster than "better looking" alternatives, though -
http://www.skymind.com/~ocrow/python_string/


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Aug 19 13:08:56 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 19 Aug 2009 10:08:56 -0700
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<1fa1663b-a1cb-42d4-890b-0617b73e8816@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<4A89CEA2.10400@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
Jean-Michel Pichavant   wrote:
>MRAB wrote:
>> Carl Banks wrote:
>>> On Aug 17, 10:03 am, Jean-Michel Pichavant 
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'm no English native, but I already heard women/men referring to a
>>>> group as "guys", no matter that group gender configuration. It's even
>>>> used for group composed exclusively of women. Moreover it looks like a
>>>> *very* friendly form, so there is really nothing to worry about it.
>>>
>>> I like how being very friendly means calling people after a guy who
>>> tried to blow up the English Parliament.
>>
>> Guy Fawkes adopted the name Guido while fighting for the Spanish in the
>> Low Countries:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes
>
>I didn't get Carl's reference. The only thing I know about blowing the 
>parliament is from the movie V for Vendetta (no comment please !).

You should read the original comic book, it's much more interesting (and
clearly mentions the Guy Fawkes connection).
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I saw `cout' being shifted "Hello world" times to the left and stopped
right there."  --Steve Gonedes


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Wed Aug 19 13:09:46 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 10:09:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: difference between 2 arrays
References: 
Message-ID: <7470d887-6c9c-4013-8dc5-ffa7ef344f3f@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

On 19 Aug, 01:48, Pierre  wrote:

> Well, the equivalence of setdiff in matlab...

That would be numpy.setdiff1d.


From sajmikins at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 13:35:59 2009
From: sajmikins at gmail.com (Simon Forman)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 10:35:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: recording input from USB port and write to text file
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 18, 7:33?pm, Allan  wrote:
> Hi! I'm fairly new to Python. ?I understand the basics basics but I'm
> been trying to write a simple python code that will let me read input
> data (such as mouse movement) from my USB port and write it in a text
> file and I am so lost. ?Can anyone help or direct me to some
> resources? ?Thank you!

This isn't exactly what you were looking for, but maybe it will give
you some ideas:


from Tkinter import *

def printMotionEvents(event):
    print "mouse coords: %i x %i" % (event.x, event.y)

t = Tk()
t.bind('', printMotionEvents)
t.mainloop()


This script creates a little Tkinter window and then makes it so that
when you move the mouse over the window the mouse coordinates are
printed to stdout.


From rui.vapps at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 13:44:56 2009
From: rui.vapps at gmail.com (Ray)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 10:44:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: generate keyboard/mouse event under windows
Message-ID: <96047669-1bfd-4dbe-bed8-fafea07bbc5a@z34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

Anyone can give some help on how to generate keyboard mouse event
under windows? (python 2.5)

I tried pyhook, I only know how to monitor the keyboard/mouse events.
but don't know how to generate/send the the event.

thanks for any help.

-Ray


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Aug 19 13:49:09 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 19 Aug 2009 10:49:09 -0700
Subject: Database query execution times in Python?
References: <24870050.post@talk.nabble.com> 
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
pwnedd   wrote:
>
>> Look up EXPLAIN
>
>Thanks for the suggestion. I don't see any option to have EXPLAIN display
>the query time though?

My suggestion was partly a gentle push toward a database forum to get
more information -- this isn't really a Python question.  Unless all you
want to do is get the wall-clock time, in which case just use
time.time().
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Given that C++ has pointers and typecasts, it's really hard to have a
serious conversation about type safety with a C++ programmer and keep a
straight face.  It's kind of like having a guy who juggles chainsaws
wearing body armor arguing with a guy who juggles rubber chickens wearing
a T-shirt about who's in more danger."  --Roy Smith


From sajmikins at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 13:51:08 2009
From: sajmikins at gmail.com (Simon Forman)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 10:51:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> 
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<90cd2c33-5f2d-4a29-b267-67f233ae2946@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com> 
	<4A8ADF6D.2030405@sequans.com>
	 
	<87hbw4fxcq.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	 
	<87r5v8e9cu.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 19, 12:05?am, Ben Finney  wrote:
> Simon Forman  writes:
> > On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 8:42 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
> > > We're all unified by our humanity. Bringing any god into the picture
> > > is surely counter to any goals of unity.
>
> > Unity "in humanity" is, to my way of thinking, the same as Unity "in
> > God".
>
> Then you're playing Humpty-Dumpty games with words. You know very well
> that ?God? has established meanings entirely different from ?humanity?,
> and those meanings played a part in your choice of that word.
>
> I maintain that you can't consistently make a declaration in favour of
> human unity and unfounded religious assertions.
>
> > I think Unity, like None, is a built-in singleton, so to speak.
>
> This is white noise.
>
> > >> We are one family.
>
> > > Agreed.
>
> > <3
>
> I think we can peaceably leave it at that.

Hear hear!

(FWIW, I've always admired Humpty Dumpty's attitude to words.  Have
you ever read R.A. Wilson's "Quantum Psychology"?)

Regards,
~Simon


From gu.yakahughes at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 14:07:16 2009
From: gu.yakahughes at gmail.com (yaka)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 11:07:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: generate keyboard/mouse event under windows
References: <96047669-1bfd-4dbe-bed8-fafea07bbc5a@z34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Read this and see if it helps:

http://kvance.livejournal.com/985732.html


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Aug 19 14:20:22 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 19 Aug 2009 11:20:22 -0700
Subject: httplib incredibly slow :-(
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
Chris Withers   wrote:
>Aahz wrote:
>>
>> What do you need to know for a decent example?
>
>Simple download of a file from a url with some auth headers added would 
>do me.

Well, I've hacked up some sample code from my company's codebase:

# !!! UNTESTED !!!
c = pycurl.Curl()
c.setopt(pycurl.URL, url)
c.setopt(pycurl.USERPWD, "%s:%s" % (user, pwd))
c.setopt(pycurl.FOLLOWLOCATION, 1)
c.setopt(pycurl.MAXREDIRS, 5)
c.setopt(pycurl.CONNECTTIMEOUT, 30)
f = StringIO()
c.setopt(pycurl.WRITEDATA, f)
c.perform()
c.close()
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Given that C++ has pointers and typecasts, it's really hard to have a
serious conversation about type safety with a C++ programmer and keep a
straight face.  It's kind of like having a guy who juggles chainsaws
wearing body armor arguing with a guy who juggles rubber chickens wearing
a T-shirt about who's in more danger."  --Roy Smith


From rui.vapps at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 14:55:25 2009
From: rui.vapps at gmail.com (Ray)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 11:55:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: generate keyboard/mouse event under windows
References: <96047669-1bfd-4dbe-bed8-fafea07bbc5a@z34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <9f107280-5d5c-4e6e-b47b-779e8012fdbc@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 19, 2:07?pm, yaka  wrote:
> Read this and see if it helps:
>
> http://kvance.livejournal.com/985732.html

is there a way to generate a 'true' keyboard event? (works like user
pressed a key on keyboard)
not send the 'send keyboard event to application' ?


From jcn-france1972 at pobox.com  Wed Aug 19 15:01:25 2009
From: jcn-france1972 at pobox.com (Jean-Claude Neveu)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 12:01:25 -0700
Subject: Python and PHP encryption/decryption
Message-ID: 

I'm looking for a recommendation about encryption/decryption packages 
for Python.

I'm working on a project that will require me to store some values in 
a database in encrypted format. I'll be storing them from a PHP 
script and retrieving them (decrypting them) using Python. I'm 
currently using PHP's mcrypt package to encrypt the values, and I'm 
using AES for encryption, so something AES-compatible would be ideal. 
However, the project is at the development stage so I can easily 
change how I'm encrypting things in PHP if there is a compelling 
reason on the Python side of things to do so.

Many Thanks,
Jean-Claude



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Aug 19 15:43:00 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 19 Aug 2009 12:43:00 -0700
Subject: Any way to adjust difflib algorithm?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
Grant Edwards   wrote:
>On 2009-08-14, Grant Edwards  wrote:
>>
>> In my particular usage, no lines have ever been
>> inserted/deleted, so perhaps I should be running diffs on
>> individual lines instead?  If I do that, I can't figure out
>> how to generate HTML output.
>
>I ended up using the SequenceMatcher on individual pairs of
>lines and generating my own HTML based on the results of
>get_matching_blocks().
>
>That produced the desired results.

Good work!  Note that IME most diff software shows changed lines as a
delete-and-add.  For example, diff -u
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Given that C++ has pointers and typecasts, it's really hard to have a
serious conversation about type safety with a C++ programmer and keep a
straight face.  It's kind of like having a guy who juggles chainsaws
wearing body armor arguing with a guy who juggles rubber chickens wearing
a T-shirt about who's in more danger."  --Roy Smith


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Wed Aug 19 16:10:17 2009
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 13:10:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: NOOB: Developing using python on two different computers
References: <610dc365-476f-4c5d-a307-b7b4141244ba@q40g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <75f2e1e8-49c4-4564-9fab-b0a6b96adaa4@p36g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 19, 6:50?am, Smeagol  wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> Occasionally I have to develop on two different computers, and I was
> wondering if there was a way to copy the python "environment" from one
> to the other?
>
> Access to the data is trivial (networked database) but various
> packages etc exist on one computer, and I want to ensure I have
> everything package-wise on the other.
>
> Both are "windows" machines (native windows box and a Macbook with
> VMWare running XP)...
>
> Is it as simple as copying the Python directory, or is there a script
> I can run that will tell me what packages are installed on the native
> windows box and then I can use easy_install to update the VM partition
> on the Macbook?
>

Simple copy won't do it.

Check out virtualenv (http://pypi.python.org/pypi/virtualenv).
Reinstalling each env from scratch is usually the best bet. List your
dependencies in your packages and all you have to do is easy_install
your packages.


From invalid at invalid  Wed Aug 19 16:16:22 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 15:16:22 -0500
Subject: Any way to adjust difflib algorithm?
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-19, Aahz  wrote:
> In article ,
> Grant Edwards   wrote:
>>On 2009-08-14, Grant Edwards  wrote:
>>>
>>> In my particular usage, no lines have ever been
>>> inserted/deleted, so perhaps I should be running diffs on
>>> individual lines instead?  If I do that, I can't figure out
>>> how to generate HTML output.
>>
>>I ended up using the SequenceMatcher on individual pairs of
>>lines and generating my own HTML based on the results of
>>get_matching_blocks().
>>
>>That produced the desired results.
>
> Good work!  Note that IME most diff software shows changed
> lines as a delete-and-add.  For example, diff -u

Right -- though difflib did show _some_ lines as changed rather
than deleted/added, it wasn't obvious how it decided between
the two.  I suspect it used some sort of percentage-changed
threshold.

For this application both files had all the same lines (by
definition), so what I was interested in was what parts of each
line changed.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! I just heard the
                                  at               SEVENTIES were over!!  And
                               visi.com            I was just getting in touch
                                                   with my LEISURE SUIT!!


From politza at googlemail.com  Wed Aug 19 16:17:19 2009
From: politza at googlemail.com (A.Politz)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 13:17:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: python doc available in emacs info format?
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 17, 6:43?am, Xah Lee  wrote:
> btw, is there still [no] info format for python doc?
>
> i feel kinda sad [...]
> Part of this is due to [other peoples fault]

Someone started a rst2info project (google it), maybe you want to help
this guy out.

Though, he might be a techgeeker, so watch out !

-ap


From israelu at elbit.co.il  Wed Aug 19 16:31:17 2009
From: israelu at elbit.co.il (iu2)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 13:31:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Dictionary from a list
Message-ID: 

Hi all,

I need to create a dictionary out of a list.

Given the list [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]

I need the dictionary: {1:2, 3:4, 5:6}

I'll appreciate your help
Thanks
iu2


From jjposner at optimum.net  Wed Aug 19 16:36:20 2009
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 16:36:20 -0400
Subject: Code formatting question: conditional expression
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A8C6244.40706@optimum.net>

Diez wrote:
> No. I love them. But not if they are so large that they stretch over several
> lines (or to many columns).
>
>  foo = bar if cond else baz
>
> is more than fine for me. But
>
>  foo = I_need_to_do_something_really_complicated_here() if cond else baz
>
> isn't, because one doesn't grasp as easily in one look that we're talking a
> ternary operator here.
>   

But the right side of my brain (see Peter Keller's discussion in the 
recent "importance of syntax" thread) finds it quite easy to recognize 
this as a ternary op:
 
  foo = (I_need_to_do_something_really_complicated_here()
        if cond else
        baz)

The whitespace below "foo" provides a visual hint, which is confirmed by 
the nearby appearance of "if" on the second line. De gustibus non est 
disputandum! (or not)

Many thanks to all responders!

-John



From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Aug 19 16:39:47 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 22:39:47 +0200
Subject: Dictionary from a list
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7f368jF2it5a5U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

iu2 schrieb:
> Hi all,
> 
> I need to create a dictionary out of a list.
> 
> Given the list [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]
> 
> I need the dictionary: {1:2, 3:4, 5:6}

dict(zip(l[::2], l[1::2]))

Diez


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Aug 19 16:42:43 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 22:42:43 +0200
Subject: Python and PHP encryption/decryption
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7f36e3F2it5a5U2@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Jean-Claude Neveu schrieb:
> I'm looking for a recommendation about encryption/decryption packages 
> for Python.
> 
> I'm working on a project that will require me to store some values in a 
> database in encrypted format. I'll be storing them from a PHP script and 
> retrieving them (decrypting them) using Python. I'm currently using 
> PHP's mcrypt package to encrypt the values, and I'm using AES for 
> encryption, so something AES-compatible would be ideal. However, the 
> project is at the development stage so I can easily change how I'm 
> encrypting things in PHP if there is a compelling reason on the Python 
> side of things to do so.

With PyCrypto[1] you have a wide range of choices, amongst others AES.

If that's the best algorithm, or even the best python-package to 
implement it, I don't know.


[1] http://www.dlitz.net/software/pycrypto/


Diez


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Aug 19 16:46:43 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 22:46:43 +0200
Subject: recording input from USB port and write to text file
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <7f36ljF2hd2f3U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Simon Forman schrieb:
> On Aug 18, 7:33 pm, Allan  wrote:
>> Hi! I'm fairly new to Python.  I understand the basics basics but I'm
>> been trying to write a simple python code that will let me read input
>> data (such as mouse movement) from my USB port and write it in a text
>> file and I am so lost.  Can anyone help or direct me to some
>> resources?  Thank you!
> 
> This isn't exactly what you were looking for, but maybe it will give
> you some ideas:
> 
> 
> from Tkinter import *
> 
> def printMotionEvents(event):
>     print "mouse coords: %i x %i" % (event.x, event.y)
> 
> t = Tk()
> t.bind('', printMotionEvents)
> t.mainloop()
> 
> 
> This script creates a little Tkinter window and then makes it so that
> when you move the mouse over the window the mouse coordinates are
> printed to stdout.

If it has focus.

The overall problem is hard - see e.g. this:

http://www.wintellect.com/CS/blogs/jrobbins/archive/2008/08/30/so-you-want-to-set-a-windows-journal-recording-hook-on-vista-it-s-not-nearly-as-easy-as-you-think.aspx

Diez


From israelu at elbit.co.il  Wed Aug 19 16:52:54 2009
From: israelu at elbit.co.il (iu2)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 13:52:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Dictionary from a list
References: 
	<7f368jF2it5a5U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 19, 11:39?pm, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
> iu2 schrieb:
>
> > Hi all,
>
> > I need to create a dictionary out of a list.
>
> > Given the list [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]
>
> > I need the dictionary: {1:2, 3:4, 5:6}
>
> dict(zip(l[::2], l[1::2]))
>
> Diez

Wow, this is cool!

thanks
iu2


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Aug 19 17:16:32 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 23:16:32 +0200
Subject: recording input from USB port and write to text file
In-Reply-To: <7f36ljF2hd2f3U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: 
	
	<7f36ljF2hd2f3U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <7f38dgF2i8dt7U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Diez B. Roggisch schrieb:
> Simon Forman schrieb:
>> On Aug 18, 7:33 pm, Allan  wrote:
>>> Hi! I'm fairly new to Python.  I understand the basics basics but I'm
>>> been trying to write a simple python code that will let me read input
>>> data (such as mouse movement) from my USB port and write it in a text
>>> file and I am so lost.  Can anyone help or direct me to some
>>> resources?  Thank you!
>>
>> This isn't exactly what you were looking for, but maybe it will give
>> you some ideas:
>>
>>
>> from Tkinter import *
>>
>> def printMotionEvents(event):
>>     print "mouse coords: %i x %i" % (event.x, event.y)
>>
>> t = Tk()
>> t.bind('', printMotionEvents)
>> t.mainloop()
>>
>>
>> This script creates a little Tkinter window and then makes it so that
>> when you move the mouse over the window the mouse coordinates are
>> printed to stdout.
> 
> If it has focus.
> 
> The overall problem is hard - see e.g. this:
> 
> http://www.wintellect.com/CS/blogs/jrobbins/archive/2008/08/30/so-you-want-to-set-a-windows-journal-recording-hook-on-vista-it-s-not-nearly-as-easy-as-you-think.aspx 

But then, there is a solution :)

http://pypi.python.org/pypi/pyHook/1.4/

Diez


From shearichard at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 18:55:49 2009
From: shearichard at gmail.com (northof40)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 15:55:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: What file is foo in package bar in ?
Message-ID: 

Hi - I think this is a pretty basic question but it's never worried me
before.

To improve my skills I'm reading the source code of a library written
by someone else.

I've come across a problem doing that.

Commonly a function is called like this:

thepackage.theclass.foo

The problem is that 'theclass' is implemented in a file called
nothingliketheclass.py so finding the implemention of foo is a bit
boring.

Now I can grep for foo and depending on how common the method name is
that helps ... or not but I'm sure there must be a better way.

Given an arbitary package is there some programmatic way to 'ask' what
file the method/function is implemented in ?

thanks

R.






From jcd at sdf.lonestar.org  Wed Aug 19 19:01:16 2009
From: jcd at sdf.lonestar.org (J. Cliff Dyer)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 19:01:16 -0400
Subject: How to create functors?
In-Reply-To: <4a8c0478$0$2752$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: 
	
	
	
	<4a8c0478$0$2752$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <1250722876.5792.3.camel@webb>

On Wed, 2009-08-19 at 15:56 +0200, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
> Terry Reedy a ?crit :
> > Robert Dailey wrote:
> > 
> >> I'm using Python 2.6. And using the legacy syntax in the lambda does
> >> not work either. I want to avoid using a def if possible. Thanks.
> > 
> > In Python, writing
> > 
> > name = lambda arg: expr
> > 
> > instead of
> > 
> > def name(arg): return expr
> > 
> > is all negative and no positive and should be avoided.
> 
> Except that def is a statement, and as such can't be used as a named 
> params when calling a function expecting a callback, ie:
> 
> vroom = some_dead('parrot', name=lambda arg: exp)
> 
> (notice the 'name = lambda arg: exp' ?-)
> 

Which offers no added functionality over:

  def name_func(arg):
      return exp

  vroom = some_dead('parrot', name=name_func)

except for confusion in debugging. :)  (See other excessively long
threads on lambda for further discussion of the debugging headaches
caused by lambdas.


> Ok, nitpicking. Me --->[]
> 
> 



From lists at cheimes.de  Wed Aug 19 19:06:00 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 01:06:00 +0200
Subject: What file is foo in package bar in ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

northof40 wrote:
> Given an arbitary package is there some programmatic way to 'ask' what
> file the method/function is implemented in ?

Indeed, the inspect module contains several useful functions for the 
job, for example
http://docs.python.org/library/inspect.html#inspect.getfile

Christian



From ndbecker2 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 19:19:24 2009
From: ndbecker2 at gmail.com (Neal Becker)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 19:19:24 -0400
Subject: #elements of seq A in seq B
Message-ID: 

What would be a time efficient way to count the number of occurrences of 
elements of sequence A in sequence B?  (in this particular case, these 
sequences are strings, if that matters).



From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Wed Aug 19 19:36:19 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 01:36:19 +0200
Subject: difference between 2 arrays
In-Reply-To: <4a8bbe36$0$12654$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr>
References: 
	<4a8bbe36$0$12654$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr>
Message-ID: 

19-08-2009 o 10:56:20 <""Michel Claveau -
MVP"> wrote:

> (envoy? via news:\\news.wanadoo.fr\comp.lang.python)
>
> Hi!
>
> See the module "sets"

No, see the builtin set type. Module sets is deprecated (removed in Py 3.x)

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From shearichard at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 19:42:16 2009
From: shearichard at gmail.com (northof40)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 16:42:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: What file is foo in package bar in ?
References: 
	
Message-ID: <48a9837b-eb37-47ba-9032-5c5ff7d42223@x25g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 20, 11:06?am, Christian Heimes  wrote:
> northof40 wrote:
> > Given an arbitary package is there some programmatic way to 'ask' what
> > file the method/function is implemented in ?
>
> Indeed, the inspect module contains several useful functions for the
> job, for examplehttp://docs.python.org/library/inspect.html#inspect.getfile
>
> Christian

That's really great thanks - just what I was after.

regards

R.



From ronn.ross at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 19:55:06 2009
From: ronn.ross at gmail.com (Ronn Ross)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 19:55:06 -0400
Subject: Barcodes
In-Reply-To: <9c8c445f0908190619v5f50de1bvbbfbd8c0557f9783@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9c8c445f0908171318x2d9d862bi35ccb398376aceca@mail.gmail.com>
	 <4A89C3BB.2030605@tim.thechases.com>
	<9c8c445f0908190619v5f50de1bvbbfbd8c0557f9783@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9c8c445f0908191655i42ec8f86p8f699f2b35cbf6f7@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 9:19 AM, Ronn Ross  wrote:

> I was hoping that python would have a library to help me print my own bar
> codes? We will need labels in all sizes and most label printer just work
> with 1 or 2 sizes. I would like to just print a grid of different sizes on
> standard paper. Does python have a bar code printing library?
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 4:55 PM, Tim Chase wrote:
>
>>  My company needs a small inventory management app. Does
>>>> python have any libraries to help with reading and writing
>>>> bar codes?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I've written bar code apps and python really doesn't enter
>>> into that part of things.  Printers generally have bar code
>>> printing capabilities so you just send the right escape
>>> sequences and you get the bar codes. To read them, bar code
>>> readers scan and translate before sending the values through
>>> typically a keyboard wedge or serial port.
>>>
>>
>> To add to what Emile mentions, most barcode readers present a
>> keyboard-wedge interface, so that scanning a barcode merely appears as if
>> you typed it at the keyboard (USB readers show up as a HID profile).  Often
>> they'll have configuration barcodes that you can scan to tweak the profile
>> (such as pressing ,  or an arrow-key after sending the barcode;
>> controlling beep tone & volume, etc).
>>
>> For printing barcodes, you can use any number of solutions -- the most
>> popular usually just involves installing a "barcode font" and then rendering
>> text in that font to your desired output canvas.  I believe there are some
>> native rendering solutions as well, but I've not investigated since the font
>> method was more than sufficient for my wants.
>>
>> -tkc
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>
> I found this library, but no documentation(
https://cybernetics.hudora.biz/projects/wiki/huBarcode). Has anyone used
this or know of a similar library with better documentation?
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From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Wed Aug 19 20:05:57 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 02:05:57 +0200
Subject: Dictionary from a list
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<7f368jF2it5a5U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
Message-ID: 

19-08-2009 o 22:52:54 iu2  wrote:

> On Aug 19, 11:39?pm, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
>> iu2 schrieb:
>>
>> > Hi all,
>>
>> > I need to create a dictionary out of a list.
>>
>> > Given the list [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]
>>
>> > I need the dictionary: {1:2, 3:4, 5:6}
>>
>> dict(zip(l[::2], l[1::2]))

Or (for long lists, when memory becomes expensive):

     dict(li[i:i+2] for i in xrange(0, len(li), 2))

Or probably better:

     from itertools import islice, izip
     dict(izip(islice(li, 0, None, 2), islice(li, 1, None, 2)))

Cheers,
*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Wed Aug 19 20:17:47 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 02:17:47 +0200
Subject: #elements of seq A in seq B
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

20-08-2009 o 01:19:24 Neal Becker  wrote:

> What would be a time efficient way to count the number of occurrences of
> elements of sequence A in sequence B?  (in this particular case, these
> sequences are strings, if that matters).

If you mean: to count occurences of each element of A (separately) in B...

Hm, maybe something like this:

   # result as a dict {: , ...}
   dict((element, B.count(element)) for element in A)


If you mean: to count non overlaping occurences of string A in B
-- simply:

   B.count(A)


Regards,
*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From mhanuel at ieee.org  Wed Aug 19 20:27:07 2009
From: mhanuel at ieee.org (Manuel A. Iglesias Abbatemarco)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 00:27:07 +0000
Subject: grokproject and zope.security==3.4.1 error
Message-ID: 


I will apprreciate if someone could help me with the following error.

I a trying to create a grokproject application in my debian 5.0 box,
the following is the output after executing # grokproject Sample
command.



debian-box:/home/manuel-debian# grokproject Sample

Enter user (Name of an initial administrator user): grok

Enter passwd (Password for the initial administrator user): 

Downloading info about versions...

Creating directory ./Sample

Downloading zc.buildout...

Invoking zc.buildout...

Develop: '/home/manuel-debian/Sample/.'

Installing eggbasket.

Couldn't find index page for 'zope.security' (maybe misspelled?)

Getting distribution for 'zope.security==3.4.1'.

eggbasket: Distributions are not installed. A tarball will be downloaded.

eggbasket: Distributions are not installed. A tarball will be downloaded.

eggbasket: Downloading http://grok.zope.org/releaseinfo/grok-eggs-1.0a4.tgz ...

eggbasket: Downloading http://grok.zope.org/releaseinfo/grok-eggs-1.0a4.tgz ...

eggbasket: Finished downloading.

eggbasket: Finished downloading.

eggbasket: Extracting tarball contents...

eggbasket: Extracting tarball contents...

eggbasket: Installing eggs to /root/.buildout/eggs which will take a while...

eggbasket: Installing eggs to /root/.buildout/eggs which will take a while...

Getting distribution for 'zope.security==3.4.1'.

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:19:20: error: Python.h: No such file or directory

In file included from src/zope/security/_proxy.c:20:

include/zope.proxy/proxy.h:8: error: expected ?)? before ?*? token

include/zope.proxy/proxy.h:9: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

include/zope.proxy/proxy.h:10: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

include/zope.proxy/proxy.h:11: error: expected ?)? before ?*? token

include/zope.proxy/proxy.h:12: error: expected ?)? before ?*? token

include/zope.proxy/proxy.h:16: error: expected specifier-qualifier-list before ?PyObject_HEAD?

include/zope.proxy/proxy.h:23: error: expected specifier-qualifier-list before ?PyTypeObject?

include/zope.proxy/proxy.h:37: error: ?NULL? undeclared here (not in a function)

include/zope.proxy/proxy.h: In function ?Proxy_Import?:

include/zope.proxy/proxy.h:43: error: ?PyObject? undeclared (first use in this function)

include/zope.proxy/proxy.h:43: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once

include/zope.proxy/proxy.h:43: error: for each function it appears in.)

include/zope.proxy/proxy.h:43: error: ?m? undeclared (first use in this function)

include/zope.proxy/proxy.h:43: warning: implicit declaration of function ?PyImport_ImportModule?

include/zope.proxy/proxy.h:45: error: ?tmp? undeclared (first use in this function)

include/zope.proxy/proxy.h:45: warning: implicit declaration of function ?PyObject_GetAttrString?

include/zope.proxy/proxy.h:47: warning: implicit declaration of function ?PyCObject_Check?

include/zope.proxy/proxy.h:49: warning: implicit declaration of function ?PyCObject_AsVoidPtr?

include/zope.proxy/proxy.h:50: warning: implicit declaration of function ?Py_DECREF?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c: At top level:

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:22: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:26: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:27: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:28: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:29: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:30: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:31: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:32: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:33: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:34: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:35: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:36: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:37: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:38: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:39: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:40: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:41: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:42: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:43: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:44: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:45: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:46: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:47: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:48: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:49: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:50: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:51: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:52: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:53: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:54: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:55: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:56: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:57: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:58: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:59: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:60: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:61: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:62: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:63: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:64: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:65: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:66: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:67: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:68: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:69: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:70: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:71: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:72: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:73: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:74: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:75: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:76: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:77: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:78: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:79: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:80: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:81: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:82: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:83: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:84: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:85: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:86: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:87: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:88: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:89: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:90: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:91: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:92: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:93: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:94: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:95: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:96: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:100: error: expected specifier-qualifier-list before ?PyObject?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:109: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?SecurityProxyType?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:116: error: expected declaration specifiers or ?...? before ?PyObject?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:116: error: expected declaration specifiers or ?...? before ?PyObject?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c: In function ?check?:

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:118: error: ?PyObject? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:118: error: ?r? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:126: error: ?SecurityProxy? has no member named ?proxy_checker?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:127: error: ?SecurityProxy? has no member named ?proxy_checker?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:128: error: ?meth? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:128: error: ?str_check_setattr? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:129: error: ?SecurityProxy? has no member named ?proxy_checker?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:130: error: ?SecurityProxy? has no member named ?proxy_checker?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:130: error: ?ProxyObject? has no member named ?proxy_object?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:130: error: ?name? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:132: warning: implicit declaration of function ?PyObject_CallMethodObjArgs?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:132: error: ?SecurityProxy? has no member named ?proxy_checker?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:133: error: ?ProxyObject? has no member named ?proxy_object?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c: At top level:

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:162: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:164: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:176: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:210: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:250: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:282: error: expected ?)? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c: In function ?proxy_clear?:

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:290: error: ?SecurityProxy? has no member named ?proxy_checker?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:290: error: ?PyObject? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:290: error: ?t? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:290: error: ?SecurityProxy? has no member named ?proxy_checker?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:290: error: ?SecurityProxy? has no member named ?proxy_checker?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:291: error: ?SecurityProxyType? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:291: error: expected expression before ?)? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c: In function ?proxy_dealloc?:

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:299: error: ?SecurityProxyType? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:299: error: ?PyObject? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:299: error: expected expression before ?)? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c: At top level:

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:303: error: expected declaration specifiers or ?...? before ?visitproc?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c: In function ?proxy_traverse?:

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:305: warning: implicit declaration of function ?visit?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:305: error: ?ProxyObject? has no member named ?proxy_object?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:307: error: ?SecurityProxy? has no member named ?proxy_checker?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c: At top level:

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:312: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:324: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:337: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:350: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:364: error: expected declaration specifiers or ?...? before ?PyObject?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:364: error: expected declaration specifiers or ?...? before ?PyObject?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c: In function ?proxy_setattro?:

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:366: error: ?str_check_setattr? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:366: error: ?name? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:366: error: too many arguments to function ?check?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:367: warning: implicit declaration of function ?PyObject_SetAttr?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:367: error: ?ProxyObject? has no member named ?proxy_object?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:367: error: ?value? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c: At top level:

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:371: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:410: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:427: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:443: error: expected declaration specifiers or ?...? before ?PyObject?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c: In function ?proxy_compare?:

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:445: warning: implicit declaration of function ?PyObject_Compare?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:445: error: ?ProxyObject? has no member named ?proxy_object?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:445: error: ?other? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c: In function ?proxy_hash?:

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:451: warning: implicit declaration of function ?PyObject_Hash?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:451: error: ?ProxyObject? has no member named ?proxy_object?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c: At top level:

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:454: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:484: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:485: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:486: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:487: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:488: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:490: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:497: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:498: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:499: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:500: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:501: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:502: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:504: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:544: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:545: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:546: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:547: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:548: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:551: error: expected ?)? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:596: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:597: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:598: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:601: error: expected ?)? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:606: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:607: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:608: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:609: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:610: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:611: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:613: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:614: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:615: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:616: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:617: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:618: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:619: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:620: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:621: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:622: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:623: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:625: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:626: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:627: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:628: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c: In function ?proxy_length?:

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:637: error: ?str_check? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:637: error: ?str___len__? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:637: error: too many arguments to function ?check?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:638: warning: implicit declaration of function ?PyObject_Length?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:638: error: ?ProxyObject? has no member named ?proxy_object?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c: At top level:

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:643: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:644: error: expected declaration specifiers or ?...? before ?PyObject?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:644: error: expected declaration specifiers or ?...? before ?PyObject?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:646: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:661: error: expected declaration specifiers or ?...? before ?PyObject?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c: In function ?proxy_isetitem?:

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:663: error: ?PyObject? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:663: error: ?key? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:663: warning: implicit declaration of function ?PyInt_FromLong?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:667: error: ?value? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:667: error: too many arguments to function ?proxy_setitem?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c: At top level:

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:673: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:686: error: expected declaration specifiers or ?...? before ?PyObject?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c: In function ?proxy_ass_slice?:

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:688: error: ?str_check? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:688: error: ?str___setslice__? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:688: error: too many arguments to function ?check?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:689: warning: implicit declaration of function ?PySequence_SetSlice?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:689: error: ?ProxyObject? has no member named ?proxy_object?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:689: error: ?value? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c: At top level:

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:694: error: expected declaration specifiers or ?...? before ?PyObject?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c: In function ?proxy_contains?:

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:696: error: ?str_check? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:696: error: ?str___contains__? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:696: error: too many arguments to function ?check?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:697: warning: implicit declaration of function ?PySequence_Contains?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:697: error: ?ProxyObject? has no member named ?proxy_object?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:697: error: ?value? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c: At top level:

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:705: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:719: error: expected declaration specifiers or ?...? before ?PyObject?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:719: error: expected declaration specifiers or ?...? before ?PyObject?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c: In function ?proxy_setitem?:

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:721: error: ?value? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:722: error: ?str_check? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:722: error: ?str___delitem__? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:722: error: too many arguments to function ?check?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:723: warning: implicit declaration of function ?PyObject_DelItem?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:723: error: ?ProxyObject? has no member named ?proxy_object?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:723: error: ?key? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:726: error: ?str___setitem__? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:726: error: too many arguments to function ?check?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:727: warning: implicit declaration of function ?PyObject_SetItem?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:727: error: ?ProxyObject? has no member named ?proxy_object?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c: At top level:

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:737: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?proxy_as_number?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:785: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?proxy_as_sequence?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:797: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?proxy_as_mapping?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:817: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?PyTypeObject?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:862: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:877: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:892: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?module_functions?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c: In function ?init_proxy?:

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:905: error: ?PyObject? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:905: error: ?m? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:915: error: ?str___3pow__? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:915: warning: implicit declaration of function ?PyString_InternFromString?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:916: error: ?str___call__? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:917: error: ?str_check? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:918: error: ?str_check_getattr? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:919: error: ?str_check_setattr? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:920: error: ?str___cmp__? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:921: error: ?str___coerce__? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:922: error: ?str___contains__? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:923: error: ?str___delitem__? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:924: error: ?str___getitem__? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:925: error: ?str___getslice__? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:926: error: ?str___hash__? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:927: error: ?str___iter__? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:928: error: ?str___len__? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:929: error: ?str_next? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:930: error: ?str___nonzero__? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:931: error: ?str_op_abs? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:932: error: ?str_op_add? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:933: error: ?str_op_and? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:934: error: ?str_op_div? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:935: error: ?str_op_divmod? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:936: error: ?str_op_float? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:937: error: ?str_op_floordiv? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:938: error: ?str_op_hex? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:939: error: ?str_op_iadd? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:940: error: ?str_op_iand? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:941: error: ?str_op_idiv? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:942: error: ?str_op_ifloordiv? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:943: error: ?str_op_ilshift? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:944: error: ?str_op_imod? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:945: error: ?str_op_imul? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:946: error: ?str_op_int? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:947: error: ?str_op_invert? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:948: error: ?str_op_ior? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:949: error: ?str_op_ipow? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:950: error: ?str_op_irshift? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:951: error: ?str_op_isub? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:952: error: ?str_op_itruediv? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:953: error: ?str_op_ixor? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:954: error: ?str_op_long? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:955: error: ?str_op_lshift? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:956: error: ?str_op_mod? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:957: error: ?str_op_mul? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:958: error: ?str_op_neg? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:959: error: ?str_op_oct? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:960: error: ?str_op_or? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:961: error: ?str_op_pos? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:962: error: ?str_op_radd? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:963: error: ?str_op_rand? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:964: error: ?str_op_rdiv? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:965: error: ?str_op_rdivmod? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:966: error: ?str_op_rfloordiv? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:967: error: ?str_op_rlshift? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:968: error: ?str_op_rmod? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:969: error: ?str_op_rmul? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:970: error: ?str_op_ror? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:971: error: ?str_op_rrshift? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:972: error: ?str_op_rshift? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:973: error: ?str_op_rsub? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:974: error: ?str_op_rtruediv? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:975: error: ?str_op_rxor? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:976: error: ?str_op_sub? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:977: error: ?str_op_truediv? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:978: error: ?str_op_xor? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:979: error: ?str___pow__? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:980: error: ?str_proxy? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:981: error: ?str___repr__? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:982: error: ?str___rpow__? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:983: error: ?str___setitem__? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:984: error: ?str___setslice__? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:985: error: ?str___str__? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:988: error: ?__class__str? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:988: warning: implicit declaration of function ?PyString_FromString?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:991: error: ?__name__str? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:994: error: ?__module__str? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:997: error: ?SecurityProxyType? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:997: error: ?PyType_Type? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:998: error: ?PyType_GenericAlloc? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:999: error: ?_PyObject_GC_Del? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:1000: error: ?ProxyInterface? has no member named ?proxytype?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:1001: warning: implicit declaration of function ?PyType_Ready?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:1004: warning: implicit declaration of function ?Py_InitModule3?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:1004: error: ?module_functions? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:1008: warning: implicit declaration of function ?Py_INCREF?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:1009: warning: implicit declaration of function ?PyModule_AddObject?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:1009: error: expected expression before ?)? token

error: Setup script exited with error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1

An error occured when trying to install zope.security 3.4.1.Look above
this message for any errors thatwere output by easy_install.

While:

  Installing eggbasket.

  Getting distribution for 'zope.security==3.4.1'.

Error: Couldn't install: zope.security 3.4.1





Thank you in advance.

Manuel

_________________________________________________________________
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From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Wed Aug 19 20:29:32 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 02:29:32 +0200
Subject: Dictionary from a list
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<7f368jF2it5a5U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	
Message-ID: 

20-08-2009 o 02:05:57 Jan Kaliszewski  wrote:

> Or probably better:
>
>      from itertools import islice, izip
>      dict(izip(islice(li, 0, None, 2), islice(li, 1, None, 2)))

Or similarly, perhaps more readable:

     iterator = iter(li)
     dict((iterator.next(), iterator.next()) for i in xrange(len(li)/2))

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Wed Aug 19 20:51:36 2009
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (greg)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 12:51:36 +1200
Subject: Identifying a class type - bad practice?
In-Reply-To: <520f55a6-38ac-432b-97e7-ec327740645a@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
References: <5a6e91f5-83c1-42a3-ab8a-082c4d8e840c@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<520f55a6-38ac-432b-97e7-ec327740645a@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7f3kvpF2in935U1@mid.individual.net>

James Harris wrote:
> I don't know yet whether it will be
> easier to modify the tree or to create a new one for each phase.

You can create a new tree using this style as
well. Just have each method create and return a
new node instead of modifying the existing one.

-- 
Greg


From nat.k at gm.ml  Wed Aug 19 20:58:15 2009
From: nat.k at gm.ml (Nathan Keel)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 17:58:15 -0700
Subject: python doc available in emacs info format?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

A.Politz wrote:

> On Aug 17, 6:43?am, Xah Lee  wrote:
>> btw, is there still [no] info format for python doc?
>>
>> i feel kinda sad [...]
>> Part of this is due to [other peoples fault]
> 
> Someone started a rst2info project (google it), maybe you want to help
> this guy out.
> 
> Though, he might be a techgeeker, so watch out !
> 
> -ap

Don't bother with this Xah Lee clown.  He posts random crap because he
thinks everyone wants to hear what he has to say about unrelated
subject material and thinks he looks smart for doing it. Unfortunately,
he usually lacks a clue about any topic he brings up (and he always
starts a new thread like he's some authority).  His goals are nothing
more than to post arrogant, clueless rants thinking he's showing off. 
this is why he ALWAYS cross posts to the same groups (Emacs, Python,,
Perl, etc.), even when the topic or content has nothing to do with
those things.  He thinks people in these groups automatically respect
him, when most have killfiled him.


From http  Wed Aug 19 21:42:32 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 19 Aug 2009 18:42:32 -0700
Subject: How to create functors?
References: 
Message-ID: <7xab1vl0qf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Robert Dailey  writes:
> I want to simply wrap a function up into an object so it can be called
> with no parameters. 

Nitpick: what you are asking for is called a closure.  "Functor" means
something completely different.  As a few other people have explained,
"print" in python 2.x is a statement rather than a function.  You could
use sys.stdout.write instead of print. 


From http  Wed Aug 19 21:45:53 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 19 Aug 2009 18:45:53 -0700
Subject: Python and PHP encryption/decryption
References: 
Message-ID: <7x63cjl0ku.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Jean-Claude Neveu  writes:
> I'm working on a project that will require me to store some values in
> a database in encrypted format. I'll be storing them from a PHP script
> and retrieving them (decrypting them) using Python. I'm currently
> using PHP's mcrypt package to encrypt the values, and I'm using AES
> for encryption, so something AES-compatible would be ideal.

There are several python libraries that support AES in the standard
operating modes.  If you are doing something sensible on the PHP side,
you should be able to get Python to interoperate with it.  Be careful
that you are doing the right things algorithmically in terms of modes,
IV's, etc.  If you don't know what you're doing in this area, it's
best to (at minimum) seek more specific advice.



From sajmikins at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 22:12:14 2009
From: sajmikins at gmail.com (Simon Forman)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 19:12:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: #elements of seq A in seq B
References: 
	
Message-ID: <7c16abe1-7502-432a-acff-aff95c22a8ac@q14g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 19, 8:17?pm, "Jan Kaliszewski"  wrote:
> 20-08-2009 o 01:19:24 Neal Becker  wrote:
>
> > What would be a time efficient way to count the number of occurrences of
> > elements of sequence A in sequence B? ?(in this particular case, these
> > sequences are strings, if that matters).
>
> If you mean: to count occurences of each element of A (separately) in B...
>
> Hm, maybe something like this:
>
> ? ?# result as a dict {: , ...}
> ? ?dict((element, B.count(element)) for element in A)
>
> If you mean: to count non overlaping occurences of string A in B
> -- simply:
>
> ? ?B.count(A)
>
> Regards,
> *j
>
> --
> Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 

You don't want to use count() in a case like this because it iterates
through B len(A) times, i.e. this algorithm is O(A x B).

If all you want is the total you can do it like this:

def f(a, b):
    a = set(a)
    return sum(item in a for item in b)


A = 'some string'
B = 'another string'

print f(A, B) # prints 12


If you want to know the count for each element you can use this:

from collections import defaultdict

def g(a, b):
    a = set(a)
    d = defaultdict(int)
    for item in b:
        if item in a:
            d[item] += 1
    return d

print g(A, B)

# prints defaultdict(, {' ': 1, 'e': 1, 'g': 1, 'i': 1,
'o': 1, 'n': 2, 's': 1, 'r': 2, 't': 2})

HTH,
~Simon


From rtomek at ceti.com.pl  Wed Aug 19 22:45:46 2009
From: rtomek at ceti.com.pl (Tomasz Rola)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 04:45:46 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: #elements of seq A in seq B
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 19 Aug 2009, Neal Becker wrote:

> What would be a time efficient way to count the number of occurrences of 
> elements of sequence A in sequence B?  (in this particular case, these 
> sequences are strings, if that matters).

If A and B are rather lengthy, then maybe build a tree from elements of A 
and use it to count elements of B. I.e., tree nodes would be counters. 
Building trees in Python, however, I guess it is a little bit tricky. Of 
course it is possible. But maybe you would rather have this tree 
maintained in C.

Regards
Tomasz Rola

--
** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature.      **
** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home    **
** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened...      **
**                                                                 **
** Tomasz Rola          mailto:tomasz_rola at bigfoot.com             **


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 23:04:12 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 20:04:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How do I convert an iterator over bytes into a str?
References: <3e3d2ebd-df8a-42a8-9420-0439a965a0d5@v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	
	<2c212222-0dac-4bd3-8130-5bd302d12dd5@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

markscottwright  wrote:
> Thanks Jan (and all other responders). ?I suppose I shouldn't be
> surprised - it's a known wart (http://wiki.python.org/moin/
> PythonWarts), but it just looks so darn wrong.

Don't forget that it's exceptionally easy to create your own mechanism
for doing this:

  def join(seq, sep):
     return sep.join(map(str, seq))


From laser.yuan at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 23:22:55 2009
From: laser.yuan at gmail.com (laser)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 20:22:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: IDLE is not as interactive as Maple
Message-ID: <7aa51a98-965c-4c74-a3b5-650140f1d589@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

In the future, will Python provide programe enviroment like Maple
does? In Maple, you can remove anything unneeded in the editor. And
the code execution order are not necessary in one direction. You can
run any command line on the screen by
push Enter key. These functions gave a lot of flaxibility for users to
start with programming something.


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Wed Aug 19 23:34:51 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 20:34:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: #elements of seq A in seq B
References: 
	 
	<7c16abe1-7502-432a-acff-aff95c22a8ac@q14g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <285422cf-9a8d-43ef-a5ac-a04a3ce9a002@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 20, 12:12?pm, Simon Forman  wrote:
> On Aug 19, 8:17?pm, "Jan Kaliszewski"  wrote:
> > If you mean: to count non overlaping occurences of string A in B
> > -- simply:
>
> > ? ?B.count(A)
>
> You don't want to use count() in a case like this because it iterates
> through B len(A) times, i.e. this algorithm is O(A x B).

There's seems to be multiple confusion here. Jan was talking about
counting non-overlapping occurrences of string A in [string] B. In
that case B.count(A) is nowhere near O(A*B)... in fact in reasonable
cases it is sub-linear i.e. O(B/A)

See http://svn.python.org/view/python/trunk/Objects/stringlib/fastsearch.h?revision=68811&view=markup

And even a naive implementation of str.count() would not "iterate
through B len(A) times".

and list.count() can't be used on its own to solve Neal's problem; its
arg is a single element so it would have to be wrapped in a loop: sum
(B.count(a) for a in A) which would of course be O(A*B)


From metolone+gmane at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 00:01:23 2009
From: metolone+gmane at gmail.com (Mark Tolonen)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 21:01:23 -0700
Subject: Read C++ enum in python
References: <4a8b3342$0$25403$426a34cc@news.free.fr><4A8B3E2D.7040702@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	
Message-ID: 


"Mark Tolonen"  wrote in message 
news:h6g9ig$vh0$1 at ger.gmane.org...
[snip]
>
> This is what 3rd party library pyparsing is great for:
>
> --------begin code----------
> from pyparsing import *
>
> # sample string with enums and other stuff
> sample = '''
>    stuff before
>
>    enum hello {
>        Zero,
>        One,
>        Two,
>        Three,
>        Five=5,
>        Six,
>        Ten=10
>    }
>
>    in the middle
>
>    enum blah
>    {
>        alpha,
>        beta,
>        gamma = 10 ,
>        zeta = 50
>    }
>
>    at the end
>    '''
>
> # syntax we don't want to see in the final parse tree
> _lcurl = Suppress('{')
> _rcurl = Suppress('}')
> _equal = Suppress('=')
> _comma = Suppress(',')
> _enum = Suppress('enum')
>
> identifier = Word(alphas,alphanums+'_')
> integer = Word(nums)
>
> enumValue = Group(identifier('name') + Optional(_equal + 
> integer('value')))
> enumList = Group(enumValue + ZeroOrMore(_comma + enumValue))
> enum = _enum + identifier('enum') + _lcurl + enumList('list') + _rcurl
>
> # find instances of enums ignoring other syntax
> for item,start,stop in enum.scanString(sample):
>    id = 0
>    for entry in item.list:
>        if entry.value != '':
>            id = int(entry.value)
>        print '%s_%s = %d' % (item.enum.upper(),entry.name.upper(),id)
>        id += 1
> --------------end code------------
>
> Output:
> HELLO_ZERO = 0
> HELLO_ONE = 1
> HELLO_TWO = 2
> HELLO_THREE = 3
> HELLO_FIVE = 5
> HELLO_SIX = 6
> HELLO_TEN = 10
> BLAH_ALPHA = 0
> BLAH_BETA = 1
> BLAH_GAMMA = 10
> BLAH_ZETA = 50

Paul McGuire (pyparsing author) reminded me that:

    enum.ignore(cppStyleComment)

before scanString will skip commented out sections as well.

-Mark




From half.italian at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 00:04:47 2009
From: half.italian at gmail.com (Sean DiZazzo)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 21:04:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: basic thread question
References: <20090818201015.GP20434@dragontoe.org>
	 
	<92338aa1-0913-483a-b950-c73f0fdb0b1f@v37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4213ecf5-4981-48b4-a038-229cc330db32@p36g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 18, 4:58?pm, birdsong  wrote:
> On Aug 18, 3:18?pm, Derek Martin  wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 03:10:15PM -0500, Derek Martin wrote:
> > > I have some simple threaded code... ?If I run this
> > > with an arg of 1 (start one thread), it pegs one cpu, as I would
> > > expect. ?If I run it with an arg of 2 (start 2 threads), it uses both
> > > CPUs, but utilization of both is less than 50%. ?Can anyone explain
> > > why? ?
>
> > Ah, searching while waiting for an answer (the e-mail gateway is a bit
> > slow, it seems...) I discovered that the GIL is the culprate.
> > Evidently this question comes up a lot. ?It would probably save a lot
> > of time on the part of those who answer questions here, as well as
> > those implementing solutions in Python, if whoever is maintaining the
> > docs these days would put a blurb about this in the docs in big bold
> > letters... ?Concurrency being perhaps the primary reason to use
> > threading, essentially it means that Python is not useful for the
> > sorts of problems that one would be inclined to solve they way my code
> > works (or rather, was meant to). ?It would be very helpful to know
> > that *before* one tried to implement a solution that way... especially
> > for solutions significantly less trivial than mine. ;-)
>
> > Thanks
>
> > --
> > Derek D. Martinhttp://www.pizzashack.org/
> > GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D
>
> > ?application_pgp-signature_part
> > < 1KViewDownload
>
> I would still watch that video which will explain a bit more about the
> GIL.

Thank you for the video!  It's good to know, but it raises lots of
other questions in my mind.  Lots of examples would have helped.

~Sean


From Brian.Mingus at colorado.edu  Thu Aug 20 00:08:46 2009
From: Brian.Mingus at colorado.edu (Brian)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 22:08:46 -0600
Subject: Read C++ enum in python
In-Reply-To: <4a8b3342$0$25403$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4a8b3342$0$25403$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <9839a05c0908192108w32148026r8112f1683010620a@mail.gmail.com>

pygccxml http://www.language-binding.net/pygccxml/pygccxml.html

It uses gccxml to compile your source code into xml, and then makes all of
your source code available to you via a high level and convenient query
interface in python.

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 5:03 PM, Ludo <
olivier.anospamrnospamnnospamanospamenospamz at affaires.net> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I work in a very large project where we have C++ packages and pieces of
> python code.
>
> I've been googleing for days but what I find seems really too complicated
> for what I want to do.
>
> My business is, in python, to read enum definitions provided by the header
> file of an c++ package.
> Of course I could open the .h file, read the enum and transcode it by hand
> into a .py file but the package is regularly updated and thus is the enum.
>
> My question is then simple : do we have :
>        - either a simple way in python to read the .h file, retrieve the
> c++ enum and provide an access to it in my python script
>        - either a simple tool (in a long-term it would be automatically run
> when the c++ package is compiled) generating from the .h file a .py file
> containing the python definition of the enums ?
>
> Thank you for any suggestion.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Thu Aug 20 00:11:32 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 20 Aug 2009 04:11:32 GMT
Subject: How to create functors?
References: 
	<7xab1vl0qf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 19 Aug 2009 18:42:32 -0700, Paul Rubin wrote:

> Robert Dailey  writes:
>> I want to simply wrap a function up into an object so it can be called
>> with no parameters.
> 
> Nitpick: what you are asking for is called a closure.  "Functor" means
> something completely different.


I'm glad somebody else noticed this. I would have said something about it 
myself, except I wasn't entirely sure my understanding of functor is 
correct. As near as I can tell, a functor is just an object which is 
callable like a function without actually being implemented as a 
function, e.g.:

class Functor:
    def __call__(self):
        return None

f = Functor()
result = f()



-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Thu Aug 20 00:13:50 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 20 Aug 2009 04:13:50 GMT
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<90cd2c33-5f2d-4a29-b267-67f233ae2946@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
	<4A8ADF6D.2030405@sequans.com>
	
	<87hbw4fxcq.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
	<87r5v8e9cu.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 19 Aug 2009 10:51:08 -0700, Simon Forman wrote:

> (FWIW, I've always admired Humpty Dumpty's attitude to words.

"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, "it 
means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less."

When you say "admired", do you mean what the rest of us understand by 
"admired", or something completely different?

How about "always", "attitude", "to" and "words"?

For all I know, you're talking about baking a birthday cake for your cat, 
by which I mean shaving off all your hair, and by "hair" I mean "lunch" 
and by "shaving off" I mean "eating".


> Have you
> ever read R.A. Wilson's "Quantum Psychology"?)

Perhaps I have, perhaps I haven't, it depends on who asks first.



-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Thu Aug 20 00:20:09 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 20 Aug 2009 04:20:09 GMT
Subject: How do I convert an iterator over bytes into a str?
References: <3e3d2ebd-df8a-42a8-9420-0439a965a0d5@v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	
	<2c212222-0dac-4bd3-8130-5bd302d12dd5@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 19 Aug 2009 20:04:12 -0700, alex23 wrote:

> markscottwright  wrote:
>> Thanks Jan (and all other responders). ?I suppose I shouldn't be
>> surprised - it's a known wart (http://wiki.python.org/moin/
>> PythonWarts), but it just looks so darn wrong.
> 
> Don't forget that it's exceptionally easy to create your own mechanism
> for doing this:
> 
>   def join(seq, sep):
>      return sep.join(map(str, seq))

Oh oh oh my brain hurts!!! Neither "seq" nor "sep" are real words, both 
are abbreviations, they differ by a single letter, and the two letters 
are mirror images of each other!!!

This is a recipe for confusion when people get the order of sep and seq 
mixed up. Hopefully in real life code, you'd use a less easily confused 
function signature -- even just spelling out sequence and separator in 
full would reduce confusion to essentially zero.



-- 
Steven


From jsrat10 at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 00:34:22 2009
From: jsrat10 at gmail.com (jo)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 21:34:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: starting selenium rc server from python code
Message-ID: 

Hi,
Is there anyway to start the selenium rc server within python code?

Thank you
Jo


From metolone+gmane at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 00:52:36 2009
From: metolone+gmane at gmail.com (Mark Tolonen)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 21:52:36 -0700
Subject: Converting DD MM YYYY into YYYY-MM-DD?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 


"Gilles Ganault"  wrote in message 
news:rtqk859vm3rkdfor0gd2u2pq5sftl8mccm at 4ax.com...
>I find it odd that the regex library can't handle European characters

It can.  Read the documentation about the re.LOCALE flag.

-Mark




From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Thu Aug 20 01:17:21 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 20 Aug 2009 05:17:21 GMT
Subject: starting selenium rc server from python code
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 19 Aug 2009 21:34:22 -0700, jo wrote:

> Hi,
> Is there anyway to start the selenium rc server within python code?



How would you start the selenium rc server outside of Python code?



-- 
Steven


From narkewoody at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 01:31:14 2009
From: narkewoody at gmail.com (Steven Woody)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 13:31:14 +0800
Subject: Blank Line at Program Exit
Message-ID: 

Hi,
Any python program, even that does absolutely nothing in the code, will
cause a blank line printed out when the program exit.  What's the reason?
 Thanks.


-- 
Life is the only flaw in an otherwise perfect nonexistence
   -- Schopenhauer

narke
public key at http://subkeys.pgp.net:11371 (narkewoody at gmail.com)
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From sajmikins at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 01:44:02 2009
From: sajmikins at gmail.com (Simon Forman)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 22:44:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: #elements of seq A in seq B
References: 
	 
	<7c16abe1-7502-432a-acff-aff95c22a8ac@q14g2000vbi.googlegroups.com> 
	<285422cf-9a8d-43ef-a5ac-a04a3ce9a002@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <02165547-8143-4f46-a74e-babe9145c033@s6g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 19, 11:34?pm, John Machin  wrote:
> On Aug 20, 12:12?pm, Simon Forman  wrote:
>
> > On Aug 19, 8:17?pm, "Jan Kaliszewski"  wrote:
> > > If you mean: to count non overlaping occurences of string A in B
> > > -- simply:
>
> > > ? ?B.count(A)
>
> > You don't want to use count() in a case like this because it iterates
> > through B len(A) times, i.e. this algorithm is O(A x B).
>
> There's seems to be multiple confusion here. Jan was talking about
> counting non-overlapping occurrences of string A in [string] B. In
> that case B.count(A) is nowhere near O(A*B)... in fact in reasonable
> cases it is sub-linear i.e. O(B/A)
>
> Seehttp://svn.python.org/view/python/trunk/Objects/stringlib/fastsearch....
>
> And even a naive implementation of str.count() would not "iterate
> through B len(A) times".
>
> and list.count() can't be used on its own to solve Neal's problem; its
> arg is a single element so it would have to be wrapped in a loop: sum
> (B.count(a) for a in A) which would of course be O(A*B)

First, thanks for pointing out str.count().  I didn't know of it and I
didn't notice that that was what was being used in Jan's code. (It's
blindingly obvious-- now that you've pointed it out. :] )


Second, I was referring to this:

   dict((element, B.count(element)) for element in A)

not B.count(A). Sorry for not interspersing my comment better.

Regards,
~Simon


From rylesny at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 01:46:17 2009
From: rylesny at gmail.com (ryles)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 22:46:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Setuptools - help!
References: 
	 
	<9fauk6-t24.ln1@phoenix.fire>
Message-ID: <9b2b4500-3670-40b7-8148-57448500c074@p15g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 7, 3:04?pm, Peter Chant  wrote:
> Robert Kern wrote:
> > You need to put main.py into the pphoto package.
>
> > $ mkdir pphoto/
> > $ mv main.py pphoto/
> > $ touch pphoto/__init__.py
>
> Thanks, it worked. ?Any ideas how to run the resulting scripts without
> installing or running as root?
>
> Pete
>
> --http://www.petezilla.co.uk

If you are using Python 2.6+ you have your own site-packages
directory, e.g. ~/.local/lib/python2.6/site-packages. So, if this
package is only for your own use, you can use easy_install's --install-
dir option to have setuptools install it there, and can also set --
script-dir to ~/bin, where your console script will go. This, and
other options are discussed here:

http://peak.telecommunity.com/DevCenter/EasyInstall#custom-installation-locations


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Aug 20 02:10:28 2009
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 08:10:28 +0200
Subject: Dictionary from a list
References: 
	<7f368jF2it5a5U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

Jan Kaliszewski wrote:

> 20-08-2009 o 02:05:57 Jan Kaliszewski  wrote:
> 
>> Or probably better:
>>
>>      from itertools import islice, izip
>>      dict(izip(islice(li, 0, None, 2), islice(li, 1, None, 2)))
> 
> Or similarly, perhaps more readable:
> 
>      iterator = iter(li)
>      dict((iterator.next(), iterator.next()) for i in xrange(len(li)/2))

I just can't stop posting this one:

>>> from itertools import izip
>>> it = iter([1,2,3,4,5,6])
>>> dict(izip(it, it))
{1: 2, 3: 4, 5: 6}

I really tried, but yours drove me over the edge.

Peter



From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Thu Aug 20 03:05:41 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 20 Aug 2009 07:05:41 GMT
Subject: Dictionary from a list
References: 
	<7f368jF2it5a5U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 08:10:28 +0200, Peter Otten wrote:


> I just can't stop posting this one:
> 
>>>> from itertools import izip
>>>> it = iter([1,2,3,4,5,6])
>>>> dict(izip(it, it))
> {1: 2, 3: 4, 5: 6}
> 
> I really tried, but yours drove me over the edge.

If you want something to drive you over the edge:


>>> alist = [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]
>>> dict(apply(zip, map(lambda n: map(lambda t: t[1], filter(lambda t: 
((not (t[0]%2)) == 1) == n, enumerate(alist))), range(1, -1, -1))))
{1: 2, 3: 4, 5: 6}


Enjoy :)



-- 
Steven


From pierre.gaillard at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 03:18:23 2009
From: pierre.gaillard at gmail.com (Pierre)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 00:18:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: regular expression
Message-ID: 

Hello,

I would like to change the string "(1 and (2 or 3))"  by  "(x[1] & (x
[2] || x[3]))" using regular expression...
Anyone can help me ?

Thanks.





From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 03:34:38 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 00:34:38 -0700
Subject: How to create functors?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<7xab1vl0qf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
Message-ID: <223ACEB9-09FE-4BBB-8B1D-25C66ABB46E3@gmail.com>

> As near as I can tell, a functor is just an object which is
> callable like a function


I believe that's how they're defined in the C++ world, in which, of  
course, functions aren't first-class objects...

-------------
Rami Chowdhury
"Never assume malice when stupidity will suffice." -- Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)




On Aug 19, 2009, at 21:11 , Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> On Wed, 19 Aug 2009 18:42:32 -0700, Paul Rubin wrote:
>
>> Robert Dailey  writes:
>>> I want to simply wrap a function up into an object so it can be  
>>> called
>>> with no parameters.
>>
>> Nitpick: what you are asking for is called a closure.  "Functor"  
>> means
>> something completely different.
>
>
> I'm glad somebody else noticed this. I would have said something  
> about it
> myself, except I wasn't entirely sure my understanding of functor is
> correct. As near as I can tell, a functor is just an object which is
> callable like a function without actually being implemented as a
> function, e.g.:
>
> class Functor:
>     def __call__(self):
>         return None
>
> f = Functor()
> result = f()
>
>
>
> -- 
> Steven
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Thu Aug 20 03:40:06 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 20 Aug 2009 07:40:06 GMT
Subject: regular expression
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 00:18:23 -0700, Pierre wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I would like to change the string "(1 and (2 or 3))"  by  "(x[1] & (x
> [2] || x[3]))" using regular expression... Anyone can help me ?


Do you mean you want to change the string into "(x[1] & (x[2] || x[3]))" ?

Does it have to be using regular expressions? Would this be good enough?


>>> s = "(1 and (2 or 3))"
>>> for c in '123':
...     s = s.replace(c, 'x[%s]'%c)
...
>>> s = s.replace('or', '||')
>>> s = s.replace('and', '&')
>>> s
'(x[1] & (x[2] || x[3]))'



-- 
Steven


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Aug 20 03:45:37 2009
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 09:45:37 +0200
Subject: Dictionary from a list
References: 
	<7f368jF2it5a5U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 08:10:28 +0200, Peter Otten wrote:
> 
> 
>> I just can't stop posting this one:
>> 
>>>>> from itertools import izip
>>>>> it = iter([1,2,3,4,5,6])
>>>>> dict(izip(it, it))
>> {1: 2, 3: 4, 5: 6}
>> 
>> I really tried, but yours drove me over the edge.
> 
> If you want something to drive you over the edge:

I meant that figuratively...

>>>> alist = [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]
>>>> dict(apply(zip, map(lambda n: map(lambda t: t[1], filter(lambda t:
> ((not (t[0]%2)) == 1) == n, enumerate(alist))), range(1, -1, -1))))
> {1: 2, 3: 4, 5: 6}

...originally.

> Enjoy :)

Not ;)



From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Thu Aug 20 03:47:25 2009
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 02:47:25 -0500
Subject: Dictionary from a list
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<7f368jF2it5a5U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>			
	
Message-ID: <4A8CFF8D.9080405@tim.thechases.com>

Peter Otten wrote:
>>>> it = iter([1,2,3,4,5,6])
>>>> dict(izip(it, it))
> {1: 2, 3: 4, 5: 6}

Zip(it).  Zip(it) good.

it's-3:00am-and-i-seriously-need-to-sleep'ly yers...

-tkc





From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Aug 20 03:56:07 2009
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 09:56:07 +0200
Subject: regular expression
References: 
Message-ID: 

Pierre wrote:

> I would like to change the string "(1 and (2 or 3))"  by  "(x[1] & (x
> [2] || x[3]))" using regular expression...
> Anyone can help me ?

>>> re.compile(r"(\d+)").sub(r"x[\1]", "(1 and (2 or 3))")
'(x[1] and (x[2] or x[3]))'
>>> re.compile("and|or").sub(lambda m, d={"and":"&", "or":"||"}: 
d[m.group()], _)
'(x[1] & (x[2] || x[3]))'

Peter




From catalinfest at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 04:23:39 2009
From: catalinfest at gmail.com (catafest)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 01:23:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: PIL and Python
References: 
	<9683190f-3c99-49d6-93d1-d8966d38d7a6@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 


On my photo jpg i have this :

Image Type: jpeg (The JPEG image format)
Width: 1224 pixels
Height: 1632 pixels
Camera Brand: Sony Ericsson
Camera Model: W810i
Date Taken: 2009:07:09 08:16:21
Exposure Time: 1/19 sec.
ISO Speed Rating: 320
Flash Fired: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode.
Metering Mode: Center-Weighted Average
Software: R4EA031     prgCXC1250321_ORANGE_HN 4.5

This is the data i want edit it to make some copyright for my site.


From http  Thu Aug 20 04:36:14 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 20 Aug 2009 01:36:14 -0700
Subject: How to create functors?
References: 
	<7xab1vl0qf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
Message-ID: <7xmy5uanlt.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Steven D'Aprano  writes:
> As near as I can tell, a functor is just an object which is 
> callable like a function without actually being implemented as a 
> function, e.g.:

No it's not anything like that either, at least as I'm used to the
term in programming or in mathematics.  Maybe it's used other ways
though.  As I'm used to it, it's a feature of certain static type
systems.  The notion isn't that useful in Python but you could
translate it something like this: imagine that the "list" datatype has
a couple extra operations:

   # lift_value turns a normal value from a base type to a 1-element list
   list.lift_value(x) = [x]

   # lift_function turns a function on a base type to a higher order
   # function that operates on a whole list
   list.lift_function(f) = partial(map, f)
   
Then given a function like

   def square(x): return x*x

you could say

   lifted_square = list.lifted_function(square)
   print lifted_square([1,2,3,4,5])

and get [1,4,9,16,25].  Similarly if you had some other type (like a
tree data structure), that type could also support a map-like
operation so you could lift functions to it (lifting a function and
applying it to a tree like [1,[2,3],4] would result in [1,[4,9],16] or
whatever).

If I remember properly, for type t to be a functor it needs the above
two lifting operations, with the property that for a given function f,

   t.lifted_value(f(x)) = (t.lifted_function(f))(t.lifted_value(x))

I guess this explanation isn't going that well but basically in a
statically typed language you'd use functors to convert the signatures
of functions to versions that operate on higher types.  The idea comes
from ML and is used explicitly in Haskell, and I think some of the C++
standard template library can be explained in terms of functors.

For the mathematical concept of functors and how they relate to
programming (at least Haskell's version), see:

   http://en.wikibooks.org/Haskell/Category_theory


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Thu Aug 20 05:25:48 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 20 Aug 2009 09:25:48 GMT
Subject: How to create functors?
References: 
	<7xab1vl0qf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
	<7xmy5uanlt.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 01:36:14 -0700, Paul Rubin wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano  writes:
>> As near as I can tell, a functor is just an object which is callable
>> like a function without actually being implemented as a function, e.g.:
> 
> No it's not anything like that either, at least as I'm used to the term
> in programming or in mathematics.  Maybe it's used other ways though. 

According to Wikipedia, functor can be used as a synonym for "function 
object":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Function_object

which is what I was thinking of. So it seems there are at least two 
meanings for the word, neither of which seems to apply to this thread :)



> As I'm used to it, it's a feature of certain static type systems.  The
> notion isn't that useful in Python 

I find the Haskell page entirely opaque and unintelligible. Well, perhaps 
not *entirely* opaque, but pretty close: it assumes a mathematical 
sophistication that I don't think I even had when I was getting my maths 
degree, let alone can remember two decades later. (Pity the poor VB 
coders wondering what Haskell is good for...) The Wikipedia page is a 
little better, but it's section on Examples is laughable -- the examples 
are as unintelligible to this reader as the description before them.


But let me try an example to see if I've got it right:


class Int2StrFunctor:
    def map1(self, n):
        if type(n) is not int:
            raise TypeError('argument must be an int')
        return "-"*n
    def map2(self, f):
        if type(f) is not type(lambda: None):
            raise TypeError('argument must be a function')
        # assume f takes an int, and returns another int
        def inner(n):
            return self.map1(f(n))
        return inner


The functor can take an int and return a string:

>>> F = Int2StrFunctor()  # F is a functor
>>> F.map1(3)
'---'

It can also take a function (of int -> int) and return a new function 
(int -> str):

>>> def myfunc(n):
...     return n+2
...
>>> f = F.map2(myfunc)
>>> f(3)
'-----'
>>> f(4)
'------'


There's nothing special about the methods map1() and map2(), I could call 
them anything I like, or even do this:


>>> def __call__(self, arg):
...     if type(arg) is int:
...             return self.map1(arg)
...     else:
...             return self.map2(arg)
...
>>> Int2StrFunctor.__call__ = __call__
>>>
>>> F(2)
'--'
>>> F(myfunc)(0)
'--'


There are some technical restrictions on functors, relating to the sorts 
of functions and types (strictly "categories") they can accept, 
presumably to make them mathematically well-behaved.


Have I got it correct?


-- 
Steven


From nitebirdz at sacredchaos.com  Thu Aug 20 05:46:34 2009
From: nitebirdz at sacredchaos.com (Nitebirdz)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 11:46:34 +0200
Subject: What file is foo in package bar in ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <20090820094633.GD7136@sevilla.sacredchaos.com>

On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 01:06:00AM +0200, Christian Heimes wrote:
> northof40 wrote:
>> Given an arbitary package is there some programmatic way to 'ask' what
>> file the method/function is implemented in ?
>
> Indeed, the inspect module contains several useful functions for the  
> job, for example
> http://docs.python.org/library/inspect.html#inspect.getfile
>

Stupid question from someone who ignores it all: since the OP is reading
code from an existing tree in order to learn from it, wouldn't it make
more sense to use something like Cscope?  Assuming it works with Python,
of course.  If it doesn't, is there a similar tool that can be used?  A
related question too is whether any of these tools actually help in an
object-oriented environment.  

http://cscope.sourceforge.net/

http://www.linux.com/archive/feature/114237



From enleverLesX_XXmcX at XmclavXeauX.com  Thu Aug 20 05:54:05 2009
From: enleverLesX_XXmcX at XmclavXeauX.com (Michel Claveau - MVP)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 11:54:05 +0200
Subject: difference between 2 arrays
References: 
Message-ID: <4a8d1d3f$0$23447$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr>

(envoy? via news:\\news.wanadoo.fr\comp.lang.python)


Hi!

Yes, the module sets is written, in doc, like "deprecated".
But: 
  - sets exist in Python 2.6 (& 2.5 or 2.4)
  - documentation of sets (module) is better tha, documentation of set (builtin) 

The best: read the documentaion of the module, and use the builtin...

@-salutations 
-- 
MCI 



From ashwin.u.rao at nokia.com  Thu Aug 20 06:02:26 2009
From: ashwin.u.rao at nokia.com (ashwin.u.rao at nokia.com)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 12:02:26 +0200
Subject: Zipimport leaks memory?
Message-ID: <6CC019B5D220A147932441E798B252B910B0193FEF@NOK-EUMSG-05.mgdnok.nokia.com>


Hi,

We are currently trying to identify and fix all the memory leaks by just doing Py_Initialize-PyRun_SimpleFile(some simple script)-Py_Finalize and found that there are around 70 malloc-ed blocks which are not freed. One of the significant contributor to this number is the 'files' object in ZipImporter.  I am not able to identify the reason for this leak and was wondering if anyone on this list would help me out here. 

So, here goes :

Since we have a zip file in our sys.path, this object is initialized and added to the zip_directory_cache dict during Py_Initialize. One point to note here is that there is no DECREF on the 'files' object after adding it to the zip_directory_cache dict.

When a module in a directory is imported(encoding.alias) then the reference count of 'files' is increased. When this module is unloaded during Py_Finalize-PyImport_Cleanup, the ref count of files object is decremented properly. So at the end of Py_Finalize the files object still has one reference count which is a result of it being an entry in the zip_directory_cache.

To summarize :

ZipImporter->files - zipimporter_init function:

Py_Initialize - 
Read files from zip - ref_count -1
Add files to zip_directory_cache - ref count - 2
Import some modules from different directory in zip - ref count - 3

Py_Finalze - 
PyImport_Cleanup - sub-directory - ref-count - 2
PyImport_Cleanup - main directory - ref-count - 1

So the reference count of 'files' is still 1 after Py_Finalize. The zip_directory_cache is the dict that has this 'files' object and this dict is added to the module during zipimport module initialization. This dict is destroyed during _PyModule_Clear(called by PyImport_Cleanup) but the 'files' object's reference count is not decremented. 

Please excuse me if I have misinterpreted the whole logic. Any pointers towards solving this would be great. 

Thank you.

~Ashwin



From iain at kandaba.com  Thu Aug 20 06:19:56 2009
From: iain at kandaba.com (Iain)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 03:19:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Polling a net address
Message-ID: <99ddf4e1-d327-4fb1-aee4-aa881de3b3af@d23g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>

Hi All,

I'm writing a system tray application for windows, and the app needs
to poll a remote site at a pre-defined interval, and then process any
data returned.

The GUI needs to remain responsive as this goes on, so the polling
needs to be done in the background. I've been looking into Twisted as
a way of achieving this, but can't seem to get anything to loop
successfully.

Does anyone have any pointers that they might be able to give me?

TIA.


From baaluaanand at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 06:24:15 2009
From: baaluaanand at gmail.com (baalu aanand)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 03:24:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: difference between raw_input() and input()
Message-ID: <3c91915d-bcb1-4ea9-9b37-6b30ea0588a0@e34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

     I have used both raw_input() and input() for a same input value.
But these gives different output.

     I have listed below what actually I have done

            >>> a = raw_input("===>")
                   ===> 023
            >>> a
                    '023'

     I have given the same value for the input() but it gives 19 as
result
            >>> a = input("===>")
                   ===>  023
            >>> a
                    19

  Is there anything hide within this. Please illustrate the difference
between raw_input() and input()

Thanks in advance
Baalu


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Thu Aug 20 06:49:42 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 03:49:42 -0700
Subject: difference between raw_input() and input()
In-Reply-To: <3c91915d-bcb1-4ea9-9b37-6b30ea0588a0@e34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
References: <3c91915d-bcb1-4ea9-9b37-6b30ea0588a0@e34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908200349i5e0a13aeq63252c162fbfe492@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 3:24 AM, baalu aanand wrote:
> Hi,
>
> ? ? I have used both raw_input() and input() for a same input value.
> But these gives different output.
>
> ? ? I have listed below what actually I have done
>
> ? ? ? ? ? ?>>> a = raw_input("===>")
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ===> 023
> ? ? ? ? ? ?>>> a
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?'023'
>
> ? ? I have given the same value for the input() but it gives 19 as
> result
> ? ? ? ? ? ?>>> a = input("===>")
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ===> ?023
> ? ? ? ? ? ?>>> a
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?19
>
> ?Is there anything hide within this. Please illustrate the difference
> between raw_input() and input()

input() === eval(raw_input())
eval("023") --> int("23", 8) --> 19 [an integer, not a string]

raw_input() /always/ returns a string.

Never use input() in Python 2.x. In Python 3, raw_input() was renamed
to input() because it's a better name and the old input() was hardly
ever used (correctly).

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From ashagow at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 06:50:27 2009
From: ashagow at gmail.com (Asha Gowda)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 16:20:27 +0530
Subject: pexpect on QNX platform
Message-ID: <375470f50908200350n57ce3e7csccd83ddad08e7de9@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I found that pexpect is available only for linux.
But we need to port to QNX, Is pexpect is available? If yes, where can I
find it.

Thanks,
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

From maxthemouse at googlemail.com  Thu Aug 20 07:01:20 2009
From: maxthemouse at googlemail.com (MaxTheMouse)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 04:01:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: PIL and Python
References: 
	<9683190f-3c99-49d6-93d1-d8966d38d7a6@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 20, 10:23?am, catafest  wrote:
> On my photo jpg i have this :
>
> Image Type: jpeg (The JPEG image format)
> Width: 1224 pixels
> Height: 1632 pixels
> Camera Brand: Sony Ericsson
> Camera Model: W810i
> Date Taken: 2009:07:09 08:16:21
> Exposure Time: 1/19 sec.
> ISO Speed Rating: 320
> Flash Fired: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode.
> Metering Mode: Center-Weighted Average
> Software: R4EA031 ? ? prgCXC1250321_ORANGE_HN 4.5
>
> This is the data i want edit it to make some copyright for my site.

I don't know about PIL but you might want to try exif.py.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/exif-py/


From ndbecker2 at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 07:01:29 2009
From: ndbecker2 at gmail.com (Neal Becker)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 07:01:29 -0400
Subject: #elements of seq A in seq B
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

Jan Kaliszewski wrote:

> 20-08-2009 o 01:19:24 Neal Becker  wrote:
> 
>> What would be a time efficient way to count the number of occurrences of
>> elements of sequence A in sequence B?  (in this particular case, these
>> sequences are strings, if that matters).
> 
> If you mean: to count occurences of each element of A (separately) in B...
> 
> Hm, maybe something like this:
> 
>    # result as a dict {: , ...}
>    dict((element, B.count(element)) for element in A)
> 
> 
> If you mean: to count non overlaping occurences of string A in B
> -- simply:
> 
>    B.count(A)
> 
> 
> Regards,
> *j
> 

I meant #occurrences of characters from the set A in string B



From muhammadsalman712 at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 07:17:41 2009
From: muhammadsalman712 at gmail.com (Muhammad Salman)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 04:17:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: New Windows Mobile Smartphones from I-mate
Message-ID: 

Windows Mobile smart phone device manufacturer, i-mate has shown off
its latest models -the Ultimate 9502 and the Ultimate 8502.for other
details http://infomobilepk.blogspot.com


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Aug 20 08:05:12 2009
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:05:12 +0200
Subject: #elements of seq A in seq B
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

Neal Becker wrote:

> I meant #occurrences of characters from the set A in string B

If a contains "few" characters:

n = sum(b.count(c) for c in a)

If a contains "many" characters:

identity = "".join(map(chr, range(256)))
n = len(b) - len(b.translate(identity, a))

Peter




From ballacky13 at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 08:07:31 2009
From: ballacky13 at gmail.com (Yan Jian)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 20:07:31 +0800
Subject: Hi everyone, I get a problem when using binhex module
Message-ID: 

Below is what I copy from the Internet:

import binhex
import sys

infile = "in.txt"

binhex.binhex(infile, sys.stdout)

Every time I try to run this script, I get a message saying

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "D:\eclipse_workspace\encode\src\binhex.sample.py", line 6, in

    import binhex
  File "C:\Python25\lib\binhex.py", line 12, in 
    # easy interface should work "as expected" on any platform.
TypeError: 'module' object is not callable

Does anyone encounter similar situation. Thank you for your help?
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From jelleferinga at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 08:19:42 2009
From: jelleferinga at gmail.com (jelle)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 05:19:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: pypi category
Message-ID: 

Hi,

Would someone be able to inform me how a category can be added to the
pypy list of categories?
I'd like to add a CAD & Geometry category.
( I develop PythonOCC, wrappers for the OpenCASCADE CAD kernel, which
is why )

Thanks!

-jelle


From contact at xavierho.com  Thu Aug 20 08:20:32 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 22:20:32 +1000
Subject: Hi everyone, I get a problem when using binhex module
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908200520n697ae725v4e0a2abcc3a10c11@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 10:07 PM, Yan Jian  wrote:

>
> Does anyone encounter similar situation. Thank you for your help?
>

Yeah, in Python 3.1 I get this:

 Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "test.py", line 6, in 
    binhex.binhex(file, sys.stdout)
  File "c:\Python31\lib\binhex.py", line 228, in binhex
    ofp = BinHex(finfo, out)
  File "c:\Python31\lib\binhex.py", line 149, in __init__
    ofp.write(b'(This file must be converted with BinHex 4.0)\r\r:')
TypeError: write() argument 1 must be str, not bytes

Python 2.6.2 runs fine though:

:"QPZ,R4iG!"849K82j!%!*!&&3#3"1#$6A*bB@%Z$3T0FR*KB5iJ6A*bB@%ZY@%
!!!:

I never used binhex however, so someone else might have a better insight.

Cheers,
Xav
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From aaron.watters at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 08:21:54 2009
From: aaron.watters at gmail.com (Aaron Watters)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 05:21:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Data visualization in Python
References: 
Message-ID: <15325820-dae0-4ba4-b25a-d33e17908fde@p15g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 17, 3:10?pm, kj  wrote:
> I'm looking for a good Python package for visualizing
> scientific/statistical data. ?(FWIW, the OS I'm interested in is
> Mac OS X).

Please take a look at the amcharts embedding in WHIFF

    http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/myapp/amcharts/doc

WHIFF is a collection of support services for WSGI
applications which allows applications to be composed
by "dropping" dynamic pages into container directories.

    http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/myapp/docs/W.intro

thanks, -- Aaron Watters

===
Sisyphus got ripped.


From andre.roberge at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 09:11:30 2009
From: andre.roberge at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9?=)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 06:11:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: IDLE is not as interactive as Maple
References: <7aa51a98-965c-4c74-a3b5-650140f1d589@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <399082f9-3765-46dc-b71e-618e75256cf9@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 20, 12:22?am, laser  wrote:
> In the future, will Python provide programe enviroment like Maple
> does?

A quick, flip answer: perhaps if you design one?  Tools for Python are
designed by people scratching an itch.

That being said, have a look at reinteract:
http://www.reinteract.org/trac/wiki/Tutorial/Introduction


> In Maple, you can remove anything unneeded in the editor. And
> the code execution order are not necessary in one direction. You can
> run any command line on the screen by
> push Enter key. These functions gave a lot of flaxibility for users to
> start with programming something.

Andr?



From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Thu Aug 20 09:29:45 2009
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 09:29:45 -0400
Subject: IDLE is not as interactive as Maple
In-Reply-To: <7aa51a98-965c-4c74-a3b5-650140f1d589@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
References: <7aa51a98-965c-4c74-a3b5-650140f1d589@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 11:22 PM, laser wrote:
> In the future, will Python provide programe enviroment like Maple
> does? In Maple, you can remove anything unneeded in the editor. And
> the code execution order are not necessary in one direction. You can
> run any command line on the screen by
> push Enter key. These functions gave a lot of flaxibility for users to
> start with programming something.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

Maple is a very expensive IDE that happens to have a language that
goes with it. Python is a language that happens to come with a free
text editor/integrated shell. For languages like Mathematica and
Maple, the IDE is everything- you almost never use the language
without the integrated IDE. Python focuses more on language features.
IDLE is not supposed to be a great editor on the level of Visual
Studio or Maple, it's supposed to be a convenient way to run your code
for people who are scared of the command line. I would venture a guess
that very few people on this list use IDLE for their coding. Based on
previous answers to questions, most people use Eclipse/PyDev,
Netbeans, Wing, Komodo, emacs, and vim. Wing and Komodo are the only
Python-specific IDEs on that list and neither of them are free (though
the have stripped-down free versions). If you want a better editor,
use one of those.


From haricibi83 at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 09:44:52 2009
From: haricibi83 at gmail.com (hari)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 06:44:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python libexpat and EXPAT are same/Different?
Message-ID: 

Hi all,

Am very new to XML, I have a query, Does  Python libexpat and EXPAT
are same or they are diffrent?

Thanks in advance.

Regards,
Hari


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Thu Aug 20 10:05:21 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 16:05:21 +0200
Subject: Python libexpat and EXPAT are same/Different?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4a8d5821$0$30236$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net>

hari wrote:
> Am very new to XML, I have a query, Does  Python libexpat and EXPAT
> are same or they are diffrent?

Depends on what you mean with "EXPAT". Python's expat module that you can
find in the standard library is the well known non-validating XML parser
originally written by James Clark.

BTW, if you are new to XML and want to use it in Python, you might want to
start with the xml.etree package.

Stefan


From jelleferinga at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 10:10:26 2009
From: jelleferinga at gmail.com (jelle)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 07:10:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: pypi category
References: 
Message-ID: 

The pypi list of categories, sorry...


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Thu Aug 20 10:25:59 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 07:25:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: IDLE is not as interactive as Maple
References: <7aa51a98-965c-4c74-a3b5-650140f1d589@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On 19 Aug, 20:22, laser  wrote:
> In the future, will Python provide programe enviroment like Maple
> does?

You might be looking for SAGE.

http://www.sagemath.org/


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Aug 20 10:54:04 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 20 Aug 2009 14:54:04 GMT
Subject: difference between raw_input() and input()
References: <3c91915d-bcb1-4ea9-9b37-6b30ea0588a0@e34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <029d53bb$0$25987$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 03:24:15 -0700, baalu aanand wrote:

> Hi,
> 
>      I have used both raw_input() and input() for a same input value.
> But these gives different output.
> 
>      I have listed below what actually I have done
> 
>             >>> a = raw_input("===>")
>                    ===> 023
>             >>> a
>                     '023'
> 
>      I have given the same value for the input() but it gives 19 as
> result
>             >>> a = input("===>")
>                    ===>  023
>             >>> a
>                     19
> 
>   Is there anything hide within this. Please illustrate the difference
> between raw_input() and input()


Did you look them up in the documentation?

Did you try the interactive help?

help(input)
help(raw_input)



Perhaps you could try some further experiments:


>>> raw_input()
hello world
'hello world'
>>> input()
hello world
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
  File "", line 1
    hello world
             ^
SyntaxError: unexpected EOF while parsing


Does that give you a hint as to what is happening?

How about this?

>>> 07
7
>>> 08
  File "", line 1
    08
     ^
SyntaxError: invalid token
>>> 010
8
>>> oct(8)
010




-- 
Steven


From davea at ieee.org  Thu Aug 20 11:08:07 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 11:08:07 -0400
Subject: Hi everyone, I get a problem when using binhex module
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A8D66D7.4070006@ieee.org>

Yan Jian wrote:
> Below is what I copy from the Internet:
>
> import binhex
> import sys
>
> infile = "in.txt"
>
> binhex.binhex(infile, sys.stdout)
>
> Every time I try to run this script, I get a message saying
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "D:\eclipse_workspace\encode\src\binhex.sample.py", line 6, in
> 
>     import binhex
>   File "C:\Python25\lib\binhex.py", line 12, in 
>     # easy interface should work "as expected" on any platform.
> TypeError: 'module' object is not callable
>
> Does anyone encounter similar situation. Thank you for your help?
>
>   
First question:   Are you running Python2.5 ?  And do you actually have 
it installed in c:\Python25 directory?

Do you in fact have 5 blank lines in front of the "import binhex" line?

Assuming yes for all of those, the only cause I can figure for that 
particular error string is that  binhex.pyc is out of synch with 
binhex.py.   To test that theory, try deleting it (in general that means 
renaming it temporarily, so you could restore it if I'm wrong), and 
running again.

I would also add the lines:
   import sys
   print  sys.version

in front of the import, just to make sure you're running what you think 
you are.  And then I'd get a console prompt, change directory to

D:\eclipse_workspace\encode\src\binhex

and run  sample.py  from that command prompt.

Compare the two version strings, and see if anything's different in the 
two error messages.

DaveA


From manu3d at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 11:16:51 2009
From: manu3d at gmail.com (Emanuele D'Arrigo)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 08:16:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Executing untrusted code
References: <137d4d96-c481-4806-a8cf-2904e89c78ae@l35g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Sorry for digging this back from the grave.
I've had to chew on it for a little while.

On Aug 8, 1:40?am, Nobody  wrote:
> If you want to support restricted execution within a language, it
> has to be built into the language from day one. Trying to bolt it > on later is a fool's errand.

Fair enough. In this context, let's say I do this:

import __builtin__
import imp
originalBuiltins = imp.new_module("OriginalBuiltins")

def readOnlyOpen(filename):
    return originalBuiltins.open(filename, "r")

__builtin__.open = readOnlyOpen

exec(anUntrustedString, {})

In what ways would the untrusted string be able to obtain the
original, built-in open function and open a file for writing?

Manu



From lists at cheimes.de  Thu Aug 20 11:26:33 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 17:26:33 +0200
Subject: Executing untrusted code
In-Reply-To: 
References: <137d4d96-c481-4806-a8cf-2904e89c78ae@l35g2000vba.googlegroups.com>	
	
Message-ID: <4A8D6B29.3040800@cheimes.de>

Emanuele D'Arrigo write:
> In what ways would the untrusted string be able to obtain the
> original, built-in open function and open a file for writing?

Yes, if you know some tricks:

>>> [cls for cls in object.__subclasses__() if cls.__name__ == 'file'][0]



Christian


From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 11:27:24 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 08:27:24 -0700
Subject: Executing untrusted code
In-Reply-To: 
References: <137d4d96-c481-4806-a8cf-2904e89c78ae@l35g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

They could, of course, use the file object constructor directly, e.g.:
	f = file("/etc/passwd", "w")

On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 08:16:51 -0700, Emanuele D'Arrigo   
wrote:

> Sorry for digging this back from the grave.
> I've had to chew on it for a little while.
>
> On Aug 8, 1:40?am, Nobody  wrote:
>> If you want to support restricted execution within a language, it
>> has to be built into the language from day one. Trying to bolt it > on  
>> later is a fool's errand.
>
> Fair enough. In this context, let's say I do this:
>
> import __builtin__
> import imp
> originalBuiltins = imp.new_module("OriginalBuiltins")
>
> def readOnlyOpen(filename):
>     return originalBuiltins.open(filename, "r")
>
> __builtin__.open = readOnlyOpen
>
> exec(anUntrustedString, {})
>
> In what ways would the untrusted string be able to obtain the
> original, built-in open function and open a file for writing?
>
> Manu
>



-- 
Rami Chowdhury
"Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --  
Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)


From narkewoody at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 12:06:55 2009
From: narkewoody at gmail.com (Steven Woody)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 00:06:55 +0800
Subject: line completion
Message-ID: 

Hi,
I wrote a program that takes some user input.  Many inputs are quit often
used by user, so when a user launch the program, and type in "The Sha",  he
wants to get "wshank Redemption" displayed automatically in reversed color
(black text on white background) along his cursor.  When he decided to use
"The Shawshank Redemption", he just press the enter key, otherwise, he type
in other words anyway.

My question is, is there any module that can easy the implementation of this
feature?  Thanks.



-- 
Life is the only flaw in an otherwise perfect nonexistence
   -- Schopenhauer

narke
public key at http://subkeys.pgp.net:11371 (narkewoody at gmail.com)
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From inigoserna at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 12:36:05 2009
From: inigoserna at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?ScOxaWdvIFNlcm5h?=)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 18:36:05 +0200
Subject: ncurses getch & unicode (was: decoding keyboard input when using 
	curses)
Message-ID: <65a1d6f80908200936g18b235fcw49d0047168cf9548@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I have the same problem mentioned in
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/c70c80cd9bc7bac6?pli=1some
months ago.

Python 2.6 program which uses ncurses module in a terminal configured to use
UTF-8 encoding.

When trying to get input from keyboard, a non-ascii character (like ?) is
returned as 2 integers < 255, needing 2 calls to getch method to get both.
These two integers \xc3 \xa7 forms the utf-8 encoded representation of ?
character.

ncurses get_wch documentation states the function should return an unique
integer > 255 with the ordinal representation of that unicode char encoded
in UTF-8, \xc3a7.


[Please, read the link above, it explains the issue much better that what I
could do.]


Any idea or update on this?


Thanks,
I?igo Serna

PS: my system is a Linux Fedora 11 x86_64. Same happens on console,
gnome-terminal or xterm.
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From israelu at elbit.co.il  Thu Aug 20 12:41:14 2009
From: israelu at elbit.co.il (iu2)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 09:41:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Dictionary from a list
References: 
	<7f368jF2it5a5U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	
	 
	
Message-ID: <04452fa5-b76f-4e5d-93f3-6348ca466bc8@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 20, 9:10?am, Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
> Jan Kaliszewski wrote:
> > 20-08-2009 o 02:05:57 Jan Kaliszewski  wrote:
>
> >> Or probably better:
>
> >> ? ? ?from itertools import islice, izip
> >> ? ? ?dict(izip(islice(li, 0, None, 2), islice(li, 1, None, 2)))
>
> > Or similarly, perhaps more readable:
>
> > ? ? ?iterator = iter(li)
> > ? ? ?dict((iterator.next(), iterator.next()) for i in xrange(len(li)/2))
>
> I just can't stop posting this one:
>
> >>> from itertools import izip
> >>> it = iter([1,2,3,4,5,6])
> >>> dict(izip(it, it))
>
> {1: 2, 3: 4, 5: 6}
>
> I really tried, but yours drove me over the edge.
>
> Peter

Nice.
(but looks like stepping towards the dark side ...  :-)

I also liked this one:
iterator = iter(li)
dict((iterator.next(), iterator.next()) for i in xrange(len(li)/2))

which inspired me to do something quite similar:

a=range(1, 11)
>>> a
[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10]
>>> dict([[a.pop(0), a.pop(0)] for i in range(len(a)/2)])
{1: 2, 3: 4, 9: 10, 5: 6, 7: 8}


Thanks


From tim.arnold at sas.com  Thu Aug 20 13:21:34 2009
From: tim.arnold at sas.com (Tim Arnold)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 13:21:34 -0400
Subject: 2.6 windows install
Message-ID: 

Hi,
I installed python2.6 to a netapp device. I can use it from my local windows 
machine (XP). But others cannot use it from their pcs.

They get this response
"The system cannot execute the specified program.".

If they double click on python.exe, they get a window

with: This application has failed to start because the application

configuration is incorrect.  Reinstalling the application may fix this

problem.

When I installed it I didn't see any mention of an 'administrators' install, 
it just installed. The permissions on the directories where it installed are 
set wide-open for everyone.

Any ideas on what I'm missing here?

thanks,
--Tim Arnold




From dullrich at sprynet.com  Thu Aug 20 14:13:35 2009
From: dullrich at sprynet.com (David C Ullrich)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 13:13:35 -0500
Subject: Silly question
Message-ID: 

I just noticed that

  sequence[i:j:k]

syntax in a post here. When did this happen?

(I'm just curious whether it existed in 1.5.x or not.
If so I'm stupid - otoh if it was introduced in 2.x
I'm just slow...)



From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Thu Aug 20 14:36:35 2009
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:36:35 -0400
Subject: Silly question
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 2:13 PM, David C Ullrich wrote:
> I just noticed that
>
> ?sequence[i:j:k]
>
> syntax in a post here. When did this happen?
>
> (I'm just curious whether it existed in 1.5.x or not.
> If so I'm stupid - otoh if it was introduced in 2.x
> I'm just slow...)
>

Well, I got some good news and some bad news. According to the docs,
it existed in 1.4 but the built-in sequences didn't support it until
2.3. It's not used that often anyway so you haven't been missing much.

http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.5/whatsnew/section-slices.html


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Aug 20 14:38:09 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 20 Aug 2009 18:38:09 GMT
Subject: Executing untrusted code
References: <137d4d96-c481-4806-a8cf-2904e89c78ae@l35g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <029d8840$0$25987$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 08:16:51 -0700, Emanuele D'Arrigo wrote:

> Fair enough. In this context, let's say I do this:
> 
> import __builtin__
> import imp
> originalBuiltins = imp.new_module("OriginalBuiltins")
> 
> def readOnlyOpen(filename):
>     return originalBuiltins.open(filename, "r")
> 
> __builtin__.open = readOnlyOpen


Have you actually tested this? I don't think it works the way you think 
it does.

>>> import __builtin__
>>> import imp
>>> originalBuiltins = imp.new_module("OriginalBuiltins")
>>> originalBuiltins.open
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'open'


So your strategy fails to provide read-only file access.

But moving on...

> In what ways would the untrusted string be able to obtain the original,
> built-in open function and open a file for writing?

That's hardly even a challenge.

>>> __builtin__.open = readOnlyOpen
>>> anUntrustedString = """import __builtin__
... reload(__builtin__)
... open('junk', 'w').write('a')
... """
>>> exec(anUntrustedString, {})
>>> open('junk').read()
'a'


Not only have I broken your "read only" open within the call to exec, but 
I've broken it outside as well. With a little bit more effort, I could 
probably save and restore the open, so that my untrusted string could 
write to files inside the exec(), but code outside of the exec() would 
still see the readOnlyOpen.




-- 
Steven


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Thu Aug 20 14:41:34 2009
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 20 Aug 2009 18:41:34 GMT
Subject: Silly question
References: 
Message-ID: 

David C Ullrich  wrote:

> I just noticed that
> 
>   sequence[i:j:k]
> 
> syntax in a post here. When did this happen?
> 
> (I'm just curious whether it existed in 1.5.x or not.
> If so I'm stupid - otoh if it was introduced in 2.x
> I'm just slow...)
> 
> 
Googling for 'python extended slice' returns this as the first hit:

http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.5/whatsnew/section-slices.html

> 15 Extended Slices
> 
> Ever since Python 1.4, the slicing syntax has supported an optional
> third ``step'' or ``stride'' argument. For example, these are all
> legal Python syntax: L[1:10:2], L[:-1:1], L[::-1]. This was added to
> Python at the request of the developers of Numerical Python, which
> uses the third argument extensively. However, Python's built-in list,
> tuple, and string sequence types have never supported this feature,
> raising a TypeError if you tried it. Michael Hudson contributed a
> patch to fix this shortcoming. 

So extended slices have existed since Python 1.4, but builtin types only
started to support them from 2.3. 


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Aug 20 14:42:24 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 20 Aug 2009 18:42:24 GMT
Subject: Executing untrusted code
References: <137d4d96-c481-4806-a8cf-2904e89c78ae@l35g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <029d893f$0$25987$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 08:16:51 -0700, Emanuele D'Arrigo wrote:

> In what ways would the untrusted string be able to obtain the original,
> built-in open function and open a file for writing?

On a related topic, you should read this post here:

http://tav.espians.com/a-challenge-to-break-python-security.html


-- 
Steven


From 71david at libero.it  Thu Aug 20 15:06:43 2009
From: 71david at libero.it (David)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 21:06:43 +0200
Subject: Annoying octal notation
Message-ID: <2h2hwo918umw.1ihpdwjimzge8$.dlg@40tude.net>

Hi all,

Is there some magic to make the 2.x CPython interpreter to ignore the
annoying octal notation?
I'd really like 012 to be "12" and not "10". 

If I want an octal I'll use oct()! 

"Explicit is better than implicit..."

TIA
David


From info at wingware.com  Thu Aug 20 15:21:42 2009
From: info at wingware.com (Wingware)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 15:21:42 -0400
Subject: ANN:  Wing IDE 3.2 released
Message-ID: <4A8DA246.9030908@wingware.com>

Hi,

Wingware has released version 3.2.0 final of Wing IDE, our integrated
development environment for the Python programming language.

*Release Highlights*

This release includes the following new features:

* Support for Python 3.0 and 3.1
* Rewritten version control integration with support for Subversion, CVS,
   Bazaar, git, Mercurial, and Perforce (*)
* Added 64-bit Debian, RPM, and tar file installers for Linux
* File management in Project view (**)
* Auto-completion in the editor obtains completion data from live runtime
   when the debugger is active (**)
* Perspectives: Create and save named GUI layouts and optionally automatically
   transition when debugging is started (*)
* Improved support for Cython and Pyrex (*.pyx files)
* Added key binding documentation to the manual
* Added Restart Debugging item in Debug menu and tool bar (**)

(*)'d items are available in Wing IDE Professional only.
(**)'d items are available in Wing IDE Personal and Professional only.

The release also contains many other minor features and bug fixes; see the
change log for details:  http://wingware.com/pub/wingide/3.2.0/CHANGELOG.txt

*Downloads*

Wing IDE Professional and Wing IDE Personal are commercial software and
require a license to run. A free trial license can be obtained directly from
the product when launched.  Wing IDE 101 can be used free of charge.

Wing IDE Pro 3.2.0        http://wingware.com/downloads/wingide/3.2

Wing IDE Personal 3.2.0   http://wingware.com/downloads/wingide-personal/3.2

Wing IDE 101 3.2.0        http://wingware.com/downloads/wingide-101/3.2

*About Wing IDE*

Wing IDE is an integrated development environment for the Python programming
language.  It provides powerful debugging, editing, code intelligence,
testing, version control, and search capabilities that reduce development and
debugging time, cut down on coding errors, and make it easier to understand
and navigate Python code.

Wing IDE is available in three product levels:  Wing IDE Professional is
the full-featured Python IDE, Wing IDE Personal offers a reduced feature
set at a low price, and Wing IDE 101 is a free simplified version designed
for teaching entry level programming courses with Python.

System requirements are Windows 2000 or later, OS X 10.3.9 or later for PPC or
Intel (requires X11 Server), or a recent Linux system (either 32 or 64 bit).
Wing IDE 3.2 supports Python versions 2.0.x through 3.1.x.

*Purchasing and Upgrading*

Wing 3.2 is a free upgrade for all Wing IDE 3.0 and 3.1 users. Any 2.x license
sold after May 2nd 2006 is free to upgrade; others cost 1/2 the normal price
to upgrade.

Upgrade a 2.x license:     https://wingware.com/store/upgrade

Purchase a 3.x license:    https://wingware.com/store/purchase

-- 

The Wingware Team
Wingware | Python IDE
Advancing Software Development

www.wingware.com



From rui.vapps at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 15:23:40 2009
From: rui.vapps at gmail.com (Ray)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 12:23:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: thread and win32com.client problem
Message-ID: <970c1cee-71ac-4b01-91ce-8ca2014570f8@p9g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

Hi, I have a problem with thread and win32com.client
running python 2.5 on vista (activestate python)

import win32com.client, thread
def child(test):
        problem=win32com.client.Dispatch("WScript.Shell")
        print 'hello from thread', test
def parent():
        i=0
        while 1:
                i+=1
                thread.start_new(child,('abc',))
                if raw_input()=='q': break
parent()

above codes will give me error when I run it.
but if without the line
problem=win32com.client.Dispatch("WScript.Shell")
it just works fine.


errors are:

Unhandled exception in thread started by 
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Users\Test\Desktop\Test\test_thread.py", line 3, in child
    problem=win32com.client.Dispatch("WScript.Shell")
  File "C:\Python25\lib\site-packages\win32com\client\__init__.py",
line 95, in Dispatch
    dispatch, userName = dynamic._GetGoodDispatchAndUserName
(dispatch,userName,clsctx)
  File "C:\Python25\lib\site-packages\win32com\client\dynamic.py",
line 98, in _GetGoodDispatchAndUserName
    return (_GetGoodDispatch(IDispatch, clsctx), userName)
  File "C:\Python25\lib\site-packages\win32com\client\dynamic.py",
line 78, in _GetGoodDispatch
    IDispatch = pythoncom.CoCreateInstance(IDispatch, None, clsctx,
pythoncom.IID_IDispatch)
pywintypes.com_error: (-2147221008, 'CoInitialize has not been
called.', None, None)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Users\Test\Desktop\Test\test_thread.py", line 11, in

    parent()
  File "C:\Users\Test\Desktop\Test\test_thread.py", line 10, in parent
    if raw_input()=='q': break


Thanks for any help.


From dullrich at sprynet.com  Thu Aug 20 15:31:30 2009
From: dullrich at sprynet.com (David C Ullrich)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:31:30 -0500
Subject: Silly question
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 18:41:34 +0000, Duncan Booth wrote:

> David C Ullrich  wrote:
> 
>> I just noticed that
>> 
>>   sequence[i:j:k]
>> 
>> syntax in a post here. When did this happen?
>> 
>> (I'm just curious whether it existed in 1.5.x or not. If so I'm stupid
>> - otoh if it was introduced in 2.x I'm just slow...)
>> 
>> 
> Googling for 'python extended slice' returns this as the first hit:
> 
> http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.5/whatsnew/section-slices.html
> 
>> 15 Extended Slices
>> 
>> Ever since Python 1.4, the slicing syntax has supported an optional
>> third ``step'' or ``stride'' argument. For example, these are all legal
>> Python syntax: L[1:10:2], L[:-1:1], L[::-1]. This was added to Python
>> at the request of the developers of Numerical Python, which uses the
>> third argument extensively. However, Python's built-in list, tuple, and
>> string sequence types have never supported this feature, raising a
>> TypeError if you tried it. Michael Hudson contributed a patch to fix
>> this shortcoming.
> 
> So extended slices have existed since Python 1.4, but builtin types only
> started to support them from 2.3.

Fine (I knew they existed in Numerical Python way back when...)




From dullrich at sprynet.com  Thu Aug 20 15:33:05 2009
From: dullrich at sprynet.com (David C Ullrich)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:33:05 -0500
Subject: Silly question
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:36:35 -0400, Benjamin Kaplan wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 2:13 PM, David C Ullrich
> wrote:
>> I just noticed that
>>
>> ?sequence[i:j:k]
>>
>> syntax in a post here. When did this happen?
>>
>> (I'm just curious whether it existed in 1.5.x or not. If so I'm stupid
>> - otoh if it was introduced in 2.x I'm just slow...)
>>
>>
> Well, I got some good news and some bad news. According to the docs, it
> existed in 1.4 but the built-in sequences didn't support it until 2.3.
> It's not used that often anyway so you haven't been missing much.

So I'm slow, fine. (There were several times when I was using 1.5.3
and wished they were there - transposing matrices, etc.)

> 
> http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.5/whatsnew/section-slices.html



From rui.vapps at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 15:53:39 2009
From: rui.vapps at gmail.com (Ray)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 12:53:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: thread and win32com.client problem
References: <970c1cee-71ac-4b01-91ce-8ca2014570f8@p9g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <319b2ae1-276b-41af-9fd9-7086353ed193@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

I already find the way to fix it. :-)


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 15:55:47 2009
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Fuzzyman)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 12:55:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ANN: discover 0.3.0 released, automatic test discovery for unittest
Message-ID: <096a6bb5-9b09-4d5c-86cf-ba826cf3a39a@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

The discover module is a backport of the automatic test discovery from
the unittest module in Python-trunk (what will become Python 2.7 and
3.2).

The discover module should work on versions of Python 2.4 upwards:

* discover module on PyPI: http://pypi.python.org/pypi/discover

The discover module can be used to run all, or a subset, of your
unittest based tests automatically from the command line. See the PyPI
page for details.

Version 0.3.0 has two new features:

* Failing to import a file (e.g. due to a syntax error) no longer
halts discovery but is reported as an error.
* Discovery will not attempt to import test files whose names are not
valid Python identifiers, even if they match the pattern.


From aaron.hildebrandt at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 16:02:57 2009
From: aaron.hildebrandt at gmail.com (Aaron Scott)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 13:02:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Problem with arrays in a recursive class function
Message-ID: <190378bc-f095-46fa-9104-cb94fa09698f@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

I have a list of nodes, and I need to find a path from one node to
another. The nodes each have a list of nodes they are connected to,
set up like this:



class Node(object):
	def __init__(self, connectedNodes):
		self.connectedNodes = connectedNodes

nodes = {
	1: Node([4]),
	2: Node([3]),
	3: Node([2, 4, 5]),
	4: Node([1, 6, 3]),
	5: Node([3, 7]),
	6: Node([4, 9]),
	7: Node([5, 8]),
	8: Node([7, 9]),
	9: Node([6, 8])
}



I made a quick brute-force pathfinder to solve it (in this case, a
path from node 1 to node 9). Here it is:



class PathFind(object):
	def __init__(self, source, destination):
		self.source = source
		self.destination = destination
		self.solved = []
	def Search(self):
		self.PathFind([self.source])
		if self.solved:
			print "Solutions: "
			for i in self.solved:
				print "\t" + str(i)
		else:
			print "Couldn't solve."
	def PathFind(self, trail):
		location = trail[-1]
		if location == self.destination:
			self.solved.append(trail)
			print "Solution found: " + str(trail)
		else:
			possibilities = []
			for i in nodes[location].connectedNodes:
				if not i in trail: possibilities.append(i)
			for i in possibilities:
				trail.append(i)
				self.PathFind(trail[:])
			if not possibilities:
				print "Dead end: " + str(trail)

finder = PathFind(1, 9)
finder.Search()



Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be giving me the result I was after.
This is the output:



Solution found: [1, 4, 6, 9]
Dead end: [1, 4, 6, 3, 2]
Solution found: [1, 4, 6, 3, 2, 5, 7, 8, 9]
Solutions:
        [1, 4, 6, 9]
        [1, 4, 6, 3, 2, 5, 7, 8, 9]



The problem is the array trail[], which seems to survive from instance
to instance of PathFind(). I thought that by calling self.PathFind
(trail[:]), I was creating a new copy of trail[], but obviously
something isn't running like I expected. Is there something I'm
misunderstanding here, or is there just a stupid bug in my code I
haven't caught?


From dfnsonfsduifb at gmx.de  Thu Aug 20 16:24:24 2009
From: dfnsonfsduifb at gmx.de (Johannes Bauer)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 22:24:24 +0200
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: <2h2hwo918umw.1ihpdwjimzge8$.dlg@40tude.net>
References: <2h2hwo918umw.1ihpdwjimzge8$.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <7f5pohF2k259vU1@mid.dfncis.de>

David schrieb:

> If I want an octal I'll use oct()! 
> 
> "Explicit is better than implicit..."

A leading "0" *is* explicit.

Implicit would be when some functions would interpret a "0" prefix as
octal and others wouldn't.

Regards,
Johannes

-- 
"Meine Gegenklage gegen dich lautet dann auf bewusste Verlogenheit,
verl?sterung von Gott, Bibel und mir und bewusster Blasphemie."
         -- Prophet und Vision?r Hans Joss aka HJP in de.sci.physik
                         <48d8bf1d$0$7510$5402220f at news.sunrise.ch>


From lists at cheimes.de  Thu Aug 20 16:35:48 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 22:35:48 +0200
Subject: thread and win32com.client problem
In-Reply-To: <319b2ae1-276b-41af-9fd9-7086353ed193@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: <970c1cee-71ac-4b01-91ce-8ca2014570f8@p9g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<319b2ae1-276b-41af-9fd9-7086353ed193@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A8DB3A4.4030800@cheimes.de>

Ray wrote:
> I already find the way to fix it. :-)

I consider it good style when people describe their solution to a 
problem, too. Other Python users may run into the same issue someday. :)

Christian


From sajmikins at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 16:37:33 2009
From: sajmikins at gmail.com (Simon Forman)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 13:37:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: <2h2hwo918umw.1ihpdwjimzge8$.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <6a523329-3287-4271-ba37-7be450cfc5f6@d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 20, 3:06?pm, David <71da... at libero.it> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Is there some magic to make the 2.x CPython interpreter to ignore the
> annoying octal notation?

No.  You would have to modify and recompile the interpreter. This is
not exactly trivial, see "How to Change Python's Grammar"
http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0306/

However, see "Integer Literal Support and Syntax" http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3127/

(Basically in 2.6 and onwards you can use 0oNNN notation.)

> I'd really like 012 to be "12" and not "10".
>
> If I want an octal I'll use oct()!

But that gives you a string, you're asking about literals.



From luk.art.q1 at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 16:43:37 2009
From: luk.art.q1 at gmail.com (artur lukowicz)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 22:43:37 +0200
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: 

6344a24de14243c76060bedd42f79bc302679dad
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

From aaron.hildebrandt at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 16:57:07 2009
From: aaron.hildebrandt at gmail.com (Aaron Scott)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 13:57:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Problem with arrays in a recursive class function
References: <190378bc-f095-46fa-9104-cb94fa09698f@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5f185928-131e-4718-bbb2-a775157d966c@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

Never mind -- ditched the attempt and implemented Dijkstra.


From MatzeGuentert at gmx.de  Thu Aug 20 17:08:34 2009
From: MatzeGuentert at gmx.de (Matthias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=FCntert?=)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 23:08:34 +0200
Subject: incrementing string/hex value from file and write back
Message-ID: <1250802514.3331.0.camel@celsius>

Hello guys

I would like to read a hex number from an ASCII file, increment it and
write it back. 
How can this be performed? 

I have tried several approaches:

my file serial.txt contains: 0C 

----------------------------------
f = open('serial.txt', 'r')
val = f.read()
val = val.encode('hex')
print val
----------------------------------
--> 3043 

----------------------------------
f = open('serial.txt', 'r')
val = f.read()  
print val
val = val+1
----------------------------------
--> TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'int' objects

----------------------------------
f = open('serial.txt', 'rb')
val = f.read()
val = val + 1
----------------------------------
--> TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'int' objects


hm....



From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 17:18:28 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:18:28 -0700
Subject: incrementing string/hex value from file and write back
In-Reply-To: <1250802514.3331.0.camel@celsius>
References: <1250802514.3331.0.camel@celsius>
Message-ID: 

> val = val.encode('hex')

That's the crucial line -- it's returning a new integer, which you are  
re-binding to val. If you then did:

   val = val + 1

you'd be fine, and could then write val back to your file :-)

On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:08:34 -0700, Matthias G?ntert  
 wrote:

> Hello guys
>
> I would like to read a hex number from an ASCII file, increment it and
> write it back.
> How can this be performed?
>
> I have tried several approaches:
>
> my file serial.txt contains: 0C
>
> ----------------------------------
> f = open('serial.txt', 'r')
> val = f.read()
> val = val.encode('hex')
> print val
> ----------------------------------
> --> 3043
>
> ----------------------------------
> f = open('serial.txt', 'r')
> val = f.read()
> print val
> val = val+1
> ----------------------------------
> --> TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'int' objects
>
> ----------------------------------
> f = open('serial.txt', 'rb')
> val = f.read()
> val = val + 1
> ----------------------------------
> --> TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'int' objects
>
>
> hm....
>



-- 
Rami Chowdhury
"Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --  
Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)


From sajmikins at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 17:35:12 2009
From: sajmikins at gmail.com (Simon Forman)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:35:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: incrementing string/hex value from file and write back
References: 
Message-ID: <6d707639-7d1b-44a3-b4a5-3a0cbf1240fc@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 20, 5:08?pm, Matthias G?ntert  wrote:
> Hello guys
>
> I would like to read a hex number from an ASCII file, increment it and
> write it back.
> How can this be performed?
>
> I have tried several approaches:
>
> my file serial.txt contains: 0C
>
> ----------------------------------
> f = open('serial.txt', 'r')
> val = f.read()
> val = val.encode('hex')
> print val
> ----------------------------------
> --> 3043
>
> ----------------------------------
> f = open('serial.txt', 'r')
> val = f.read() ?
> print val
> val = val+1
> ----------------------------------
> --> TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'int' objects
>
> ----------------------------------
> f = open('serial.txt', 'rb')
> val = f.read()
> val = val + 1
> ----------------------------------
> --> TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'int' objects
>
> hm....


Check this out:

In [1]: val = '0C'

In [2]: val.encode('hex')
Out[2]: '3043'

That's not what you want. Try this:

In [3]: int(val, 16)
Out[3]: 12

And to convert an int to a hex string.

In [4]: '%x' % 13
Out[4]: 'd'

The interpreter has a help() function that gives you quick access to
information about python objects:

>>> help(str.encode)
Help on method_descriptor:

encode(...)
    S.encode([encoding[,errors]]) -> object

    Encodes S using the codec registered for encoding. encoding
defaults
    to the default encoding. errors may be given to set a different
error
    handling scheme. Default is 'strict' meaning that encoding errors
raise
    a UnicodeEncodeError. Other possible values are 'ignore',
'replace' and
    'xmlcharrefreplace' as well as any other name registered with
    codecs.register_error that is able to handle UnicodeEncodeErrors.

>>> help(int)
Help on class int in module __builtin__:

class int(object)
 |  int(x[, base]) -> integer
 |
 |  Convert a string or number to an integer, if possible.  A floating
point
 |  argument will be truncated towards zero (this does not include a
string
 |  representation of a floating point number!)  When converting a
string, use
 |  the optional base.  It is an error to supply a base when
converting a
 |  non-string. If the argument is outside the integer range a long
object
 |  will be returned instead.
 |
 |  Methods defined here:
 |
...


Unfortunately you can't use it on the '%' string formatting
operator...

>>> help(%)
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

So here's a link to the docs:
http://docs.python.org/library/stdtypes.html#string-formatting-operations


HTH,
~Simon


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Aug 20 17:36:37 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 22:36:37 +0100
Subject: incrementing string/hex value from file and write back
In-Reply-To: <1250802514.3331.0.camel@celsius>
References: <1250802514.3331.0.camel@celsius>
Message-ID: 

Matthias G?ntert wrote:
> Hello guys
> 
> I would like to read a hex number from an ASCII file, increment it and
> write it back. 
> How can this be performed? 
> 
> I have tried several approaches:
> 
> my file serial.txt contains: 0C 
> 
> ----------------------------------
> f = open('serial.txt', 'r')
> val = f.read()
> val = val.encode('hex')
val = int(val, 16) + 1
f.write('%02X' % val)
> print val
> ----------------------------------
> --> 3043 
> 
> ----------------------------------
> f = open('serial.txt', 'r')
> val = f.read()  
> print val
> val = val+1
> ----------------------------------
> --> TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'int' objects
> 
> ----------------------------------
> f = open('serial.txt', 'rb')
> val = f.read()
> val = val + 1
> ----------------------------------
> --> TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'int' objects
> 
> 
> hm....
> 


-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Thu Aug 20 17:36:41 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:36:41 -0700
Subject: incrementing string/hex value from file and write back
In-Reply-To: 
References: <1250802514.3331.0.camel@celsius>
	
Message-ID: <4A8DC1E9.30504@stoneleaf.us>

[fixed top-posting]

Rami Chowdhury wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:08:34 -0700, Matthias G?ntert  
>  wrote:
> 
>> Hello guys
>>
>> I would like to read a hex number from an ASCII file, increment it and
>> write it back.
>> How can this be performed?
>>
>> I have tried several approaches:
>>
>> my file serial.txt contains: 0C
>>
>> ----------------------------------
>> f = open('serial.txt', 'r')
>> val = f.read()
>> val = val.encode('hex')
> 
> That's the crucial line -- it's returning a new integer,  which you are
> re-binding to val. If you then did:
> 
>   val = val + 1
> 
> you'd be fine, and could then write val back to your file :-)
> 

.encode('hex') is returning a string -- attempting to add one to it will 
raise the same error the OP is getting below.

To get a number you can do (after reading val from the file):

val = int(val, '16') # convert from base 16
val += 1             # increment
val = "%X" % val     # back to heg digits

and then write it back out again.  Don't forget to close and reopen the 
file for writing.  :)

~Ethan~

>> print val
>> ----------------------------------
>> --> 3043


>>
>> ----------------------------------
>> f = open('serial.txt', 'r')
>> val = f.read()
>> print val
>> val = val+1
>> ----------------------------------
>> --> TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'int' objects
>>
>> ----------------------------------
>> f = open('serial.txt', 'rb')
>> val = f.read()
>> val = val + 1
>> ----------------------------------
>> --> TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'int' objects
>>
>>
>> hm....



From sajmikins at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 17:38:08 2009
From: sajmikins at gmail.com (Simon Forman)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:38:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: incrementing string/hex value from file and write back
References: <1250802514.3331.0.camel@celsius>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 20, 5:18?pm, "Rami Chowdhury"  wrote:
> > val = val.encode('hex')
>
> That's the crucial line -- it's returning a new integer, which you are ?
> re-binding to val. If you then did:

No, it returns another string, which still isn't the decimal
representation of the hex string.  hex C => decimal 12

In [1]: '0C'.encode('hex')
Out[1]: '3043'


From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 17:44:57 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:44:57 -0700
Subject: incrementing string/hex value from file and write back
In-Reply-To: 
References: <1250802514.3331.0.camel@celsius>
	
	
Message-ID: 

Of course - my apologies, I was being an idiot.

On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:38:08 -0700, Simon Forman   
wrote:

> On Aug 20, 5:18?pm, "Rami Chowdhury"  wrote:
>> > val = val.encode('hex')
>>
>> That's the crucial line -- it's returning a new integer, which you are ?
>> re-binding to val. If you then did:
>
> No, it returns another string, which still isn't the decimal
> representation of the hex string.  hex C => decimal 12
>
> In [1]: '0C'.encode('hex')
> Out[1]: '3043'



-- 
Rami Chowdhury
"Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --  
Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)


From manu3d at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 17:46:19 2009
From: manu3d at gmail.com (Emanuele D'Arrigo)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:46:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Executing untrusted code
References: <137d4d96-c481-4806-a8cf-2904e89c78ae@l35g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<029d893f$0$25987$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4a5db5ed-4413-46a6-bc2b-6e9200b26ea3@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>

Christian, Rami and Steven, thank you all for your help. It wasn't
meant to be a challenge, I knew it ought to be easily breakable. I'm
no hacker and it just helps to have some examples to better understand
the issue.

On Aug 20, 7:42?pm, Steven D'Aprano  On a related topic, you should read this post here:
> http://tav.espians.com/a-challenge-to-break-python-security.html

Indeed I did read the post and my minimalistic test was inspired by
some of the code in it (I didn't know you could replace the
builtins!). Tav's effort kinda of ended nowhere though. My
understanding of it is that it hasn't been broken and that Tav has
submitted a patch to secure some of python's innards. But

Steven, you are perfectly right, I didn't test it and I missed the
crucial part in which I store the __builtins__ dictionary in the
dictionary of the new originalBuiltins module. My bad. Still, you did
understand my intentions and did give me a simple example of how it
could be broken. Thank you.

-However- I would suggest that conceptually the "award" goes to
Christian. ;)

In the same way the open builtin function can be replaced or removed,
also reload, file, __import__, exec, execfile and any other
potentially "unsafe" builtin can be replaced with safer versions. Or
not?

Christian's solution though, seems to be much trickier to evade. Can
the object class be replaced at runtime with a version that does not
provide a way to reach its subclasses?

Manu







From inigoserna at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 18:12:07 2009
From: inigoserna at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?ScOxaWdvIFNlcm5h?=)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 00:12:07 +0200
Subject: ncurses getch & unicode (was: decoding keyboard input when using 
	curses)
In-Reply-To: <65a1d6f80908200936g18b235fcw49d0047168cf9548@mail.gmail.com>
References: <65a1d6f80908200936g18b235fcw49d0047168cf9548@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <65a1d6f80908201512w4b90c646r315e699ed78a525a@mail.gmail.com>

Hi again,

2009/8/20 I?igo Serna 
>
> I have the same problem mentioned in http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/c70c80cd9bc7bac6?pli=1 some months ago.
>
> Python 2.6 program which uses ncurses module in a terminal configured to use UTF-8 encoding.
>
> When trying to get input from keyboard, a non-ascii character (like ?) is returned as 2 integers < 255, needing 2 calls to getch method to get both.
> These two integers \xc3 \xa7 forms the utf-8 encoded representation of ? character.
>
> ncurses get_wch documentation states the function should return an unique integer > 255 with the ordinal representation of that unicode char encoded in UTF-8, \xc3a7.

Answering myself, I've copied at the bottom of this email a working
solution, but the question still remains: why win.getch() doesn't
return the correct value?

Kind regards,
I?igo Serna


######################################################################
# test.py
import curses

import locale
locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, '')
print locale.getpreferredencoding()


def get_char(win):
??? def get_check_next_byte():
??????? c = win.getch()
??????? if 128 <= c <= 191:
??????????? return c
??????? else:
??????????? raise UnicodeError

??? bytes = []
??? c = win.getch()
??? if c <= 127:
??????? # 1 bytes
??????? bytes.append(c)
??? elif 194 <= c <= 223:
??????? # 2 bytes
??????? bytes.append(c)
??????? bytes.append(get_check_next_byte())
??? elif 224 <= c <= 239:
??????? # 3 bytes
??????? bytes.append(c)
??????? bytes.append(get_check_next_byte())
??????? bytes.append(get_check_next_byte())
??? elif 240 <= c <= 244:
??????? # 4 bytes
??????? bytes.append(c)
??????? bytes.append(get_check_next_byte())
??????? bytes.append(get_check_next_byte())
??????? bytes.append(get_check_next_byte())
??? buf = ''.join([chr(b) for b in bytes])
??? buf = buf.decode('utf-8')
??? return buf

def getcodes(win):
??? codes = []
??? while True:
??????? try:
??????????? ch = get_char(win)
??????? except KeyboardInterrupt:
??????????? return codes
??????? codes.append(ch)

lst = curses.wrapper(getcodes)
print lst
for c in lst:
??? print c.encode('utf-8'),
print
######################################################################

From mensanator at aol.com  Thu Aug 20 18:18:35 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 15:18:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: <2h2hwo918umw.1ihpdwjimzge8$.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 20, 2:06?pm, David <71da... at libero.it> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Is there some magic to make the 2.x CPython interpreter to ignore the
> annoying octal notation?
> I'd really like 012 to be "12" and not "10".

Use 3.1:

>>> int('012')
12


(Just kidding! That works in 2.5 also. How are you using it where
it's coming out wrong? I can see you pulling '012' out of a text
file and want to calculate with it, but how would you use a
string without using int()? Passing it to functions that allow
string representations of numbers?)

>
> If I want an octal I'll use oct()!
>
> "Explicit is better than implicit..."
>
> TIA
> David



From davea at ieee.org  Thu Aug 20 19:05:17 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 19:05:17 -0400
Subject: incrementing string/hex value from file and write back
In-Reply-To: <1250802514.3331.0.camel@celsius>
References: <1250802514.3331.0.camel@celsius>
Message-ID: <4A8DD6AD.5080108@ieee.org>

Matthias G?ntert wrote:
> Hello guys
>
> I would like to read a hex number from an ASCII file, increment it and
> write it back. 
> How can this be performed? 
>
> I have tried several approaches:
>
> my file serial.txt contains: 0C 
>
> ----------------------------------
> f = open('serial.txt', 'r')
> val = f.read()
> val = val.encode('hex')
> print val
> ----------------------------------
> --> 3043 
>
> ----------------------------------
> f = open('serial.txt', 'r')
> val = f.read()  
> print val
> val = val+1
> ----------------------------------
> --> TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'int' objects
>
> ----------------------------------
> f = open('serial.txt', 'rb')
> val = f.read()
> val = val + 1
> ----------------------------------
> --> TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'int' objects
>
>
> hm....
>
>
>   
You don't say much to constrain the file.  Is it always two characters 
(nibbles) long?  Or might it have a newline at the end?  If it could be 
multiple lines, is each line limited to 2 columns?  or to 8 columns?  or 
no limit?

To interpret val as an integer, try    new = int(val, 16)
Then to convert back to hex digits, try  line = "%x" % (val+1)

For fancier conversions, look at binascii.unhexlify() and hexlify().   
Look also at chr() and ord().  and str.format()

DaveA



From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Thu Aug 20 19:06:10 2009
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 00:06:10 +0100
Subject: thread and win32com.client problem
In-Reply-To: 
References: <970c1cee-71ac-4b01-91ce-8ca2014570f8@p9g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<319b2ae1-276b-41af-9fd9-7086353ed193@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Christian Heimes wrote:
> Ray wrote:
>> I already find the way to fix it. :-)
> 
> I consider it good style when people describe their solution to a 
> problem, too. Other Python users may run into the same issue someday. :)
> 
> Christian

He probably used:  pythoncom.CoInitialize()

-- 
MPH
http://blog.dcuktec.com
'If consumed, best digested with added seasoning to own preference.'


From farberow at wisc.edu  Thu Aug 20 19:21:50 2009
From: farberow at wisc.edu (Carrie Farberow)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 18:21:50 -0500
Subject: Python on Crays
Message-ID: <6fb0f9aeb382.4a8d943e@wiscmail.wisc.edu>

I am trying to build a statically-linked Python based on directions at:

http://yt.enzotools.org/wiki/CrayXT5Installation

I have tried this on multiple systems.  The first time I attempt to build python, 'make' runs fine but 'make install' fails with the following error:

Sorry: UnicodeError: ("\\N escapes not supported (can't load unicodedata module)",)

Any help regarding the source of this error and possible fixes would be appreciated.

Carrie





From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Thu Aug 20 19:25:38 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 01:25:38 +0200
Subject: #elements of seq A in seq B
In-Reply-To: <7c16abe1-7502-432a-acff-aff95c22a8ac@q14g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	<7c16abe1-7502-432a-acff-aff95c22a8ac@q14g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

20-08-2009 o 04:12:14 Simon Forman  wrote:

> If you want to know the count for each element you can use this:
>
> from collections import defaultdict
>
> def g(a, b):
>     a = set(a)
>     d = defaultdict(int)
>     for item in b:
>         if item in a:
>             d[item] += 1
>     return d
>
> print g(A, B)
>
> # prints defaultdict(, {' ': 1, 'e': 1, 'g': 1, 'i': 1,
> 'o': 1, 'n': 2, 's': 1, 'r': 2, 't': 2})

Yeah, your sollution is better (and more interesting :-)). Thanks!

*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Thu Aug 20 19:44:43 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 01:44:43 +0200
Subject: #elements of seq A in seq B
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

20-08-2009 o 13:01:29 Neal Becker  wrote:

> I meant #occurrences of characters from the set A in string B

But:

1) separately for each element of A? (see Simon's sollution with
defaultdict)

2) or total number of all occurrences of elements of A? (see below)


20-08-2009 o 14:05:12 Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:

> identity = "".join(map(chr, range(256)))
> n = len(b) - len(b.translate(identity, a))

Nice, though I'd prefer Simon's sollution:

     a = set(a)
     n = sum(item in a for item in b)

Regards,
*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Aug 20 19:51:00 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 20 Aug 2009 16:51:00 -0700
Subject: Silly question
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
Benjamin Kaplan   wrote:
>On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 2:13 PM, David C Ullrich wrot=
>e:
>>
>> I just noticed that
>> sequence[i:j:k]
>
>Well, I got some good news and some bad news. According to the docs,
>it existed in 1.4 but the built-in sequences didn't support it until
>2.3. It's not used that often anyway so you haven't been missing much.

Except that it's canonical for one specific operation:

'reverseme'[::-1]
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Given that C++ has pointers and typecasts, it's really hard to have a
serious conversation about type safety with a C++ programmer and keep a
straight face.  It's kind of like having a guy who juggles chainsaws
wearing body armor arguing with a guy who juggles rubber chickens wearing
a T-shirt about who's in more danger."  --Roy Smith


From james.harris.1 at googlemail.com  Thu Aug 20 19:59:14 2009
From: james.harris.1 at googlemail.com (James Harris)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 16:59:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: <2h2hwo918umw.1ihpdwjimzge8$.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: 

On 20 Aug, 20:06, David <71da... at libero.it> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Is there some magic to make the 2.x CPython interpreter to ignore the
> annoying octal notation?
> I'd really like 012 to be "12" and not "10".

This is (IMHO) a sad hangover from C (which took it from B but not
from BCPL which used # and #x) and it appears in many
places. It sounds like you want to use leading zeroes in literals -
perhaps for spacing. I don't think there's an easy way. You just have
to be aware of it.

Note that it seems to apply to integers and not floating point
literals

>>> 012
10
>>> int("012")
12
>>> 012.5
12.5
>>>

This daft notation is recognised in some surprising places to catch
the unwary. For example, the place I first came across it was in a
windows command prompt:

s:\>ping 192.168.1.012
Pinging 192.168.1.10 with 32 bytes of data:

On B's use of the leading zero see

  http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/kbman.html

and note the comment: "An octal constant is the same as a decimal
constant except that it begins with a zero. It is then interpreted in
base 8. Note that 09 (base 8) is legal and equal to 011."

It maybe made sense once but this relic of the past should have been
consigned to the waste bin of history long ago.

James


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Thu Aug 20 20:45:11 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 17:45:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Silly question
References: 
	 
	
Message-ID: <97ae0d22-7eaa-4ad6-8603-69699703d508@u16g2000pru.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 21, 5:33?am, David C Ullrich  wrote:

> So I'm slow, fine. (There were several times when I was using 1.5.3
> and wished they were there - transposing matrices, etc.)

1.5.THREE ??


From sflennik at comcast.net  Thu Aug 20 20:57:53 2009
From: sflennik at comcast.net (Steve1234)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 17:57:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: install package in a particular python version
Message-ID: <4ae493d4-4669-4e54-a385-6d79d539a778@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>


I installed the boto module in my Ubuntu system using "python setup.py
install" and it installs in my python2.6 version and works great.  Now
I want to install boto into my python2.5 version because my hosting
services supports 2.5 but not 2.6. and I want to test my code locally,
"sting".format() is not in 2.5.

How do I install a package in a particular version of python?

I tried several different install switches without any luck.


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Aug 20 20:58:53 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 20 Aug 2009 17:58:53 -0700
Subject: platform-specific overrides of functions and class methods 
	(expanding on imputils demo code)
References: 
	<77715735-2668-43e7-95da-c91d175b35c9@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

In article <77715735-2668-43e7-95da-c91d175b35c9 at z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
lkcl   wrote:
>
>if somebody would like to add this to the python bugtracker, as a
>contribution, that would be great.  alternatively, you might like to
>have a word with the python developers to get them to remove the
>censorship on my contributions.

Excuse me?  What censorship?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Given that C++ has pointers and typecasts, it's really hard to have a
serious conversation about type safety with a C++ programmer and keep a
straight face.  It's kind of like having a guy who juggles chainsaws
wearing body armor arguing with a guy who juggles rubber chickens wearing
a T-shirt about who's in more danger."  --Roy Smith


From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Thu Aug 20 21:05:34 2009
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 21:05:34 -0400
Subject: install package in a particular python version
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4ae493d4-4669-4e54-a385-6d79d539a778@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

whoops, sent it to you instead of the list

On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 9:05 PM, Benjamin
Kaplan wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 8:57 PM, Steve1234 wrote:
>>
>> I installed the boto module in my Ubuntu system using "python setup.py
>> install" and it installs in my python2.6 version and works great. ?Now
>> I want to install boto into my python2.5 version because my hosting
>> services supports 2.5 but not 2.6. and I want to test my code locally,
>> "sting".format() is not in 2.5.
>>
>> How do I install a package in a particular version of python?
>>
>> I tried several different install switches without any luck.
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
> It's not an install switch- it's the version of python you use to
> install it. If you want to install it to Python 2.5, run python2.5
> setup.py install
>


From david.lyon at preisshare.net  Thu Aug 20 21:34:08 2009
From: david.lyon at preisshare.net (David Lyon)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 21:34:08 -0400
Subject: install package in a particular python version
In-Reply-To: <4ae493d4-4669-4e54-a385-6d79d539a778@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
References: <4ae493d4-4669-4e54-a385-6d79d539a778@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <85a5395c9a481e1dfc74f5a76a62e85a@preisshare.net>

On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 17:57:53 -0700 (PDT), Steve1234 
wrote:
> I installed the boto module in my Ubuntu system using "python setup.py
> install" and it installs in my python2.6 version and works great.  Now
> I want to install boto into my python2.5 version because my hosting
> services supports 2.5 but not 2.6. and I want to test my code locally,
> "sting".format() is not in 2.5.
> 
> How do I install a package in a particular version of python?
> 
> I tried several different install switches without any luck.

If you wish to do it in a gui rather than at the commandline then
you could try the python package manager at :

  http://sourceforge.net/projects/pythonpkgmgr/

You will need to download it from source.

In the Options Dialog, there is a dropdown list that allow you to 
easily change from one version of python to another.

Regards

David


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Thu Aug 20 21:42:42 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 03:42:42 +0200
Subject: #elements of seq A in seq B
In-Reply-To: <200908202009.59909.ndbecker2@gmail.com>
References:  
	
	<200908202009.59909.ndbecker2@gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

>>      a = set(a)
>>      n = sum(item in a for item in b)

> Why set?  Does it matter if I say that items in A are already unique?

Sets are hash-based, so it's (most probably) far more efficient for
sets than for sequences (especially if we say about big/long ones).

Regards,
*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From charles at declareSub.com  Thu Aug 20 22:12:32 2009
From: charles at declareSub.com (Charles Yeomans)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 22:12:32 -0400
Subject: How to create functors?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<7xab1vl0qf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
	<7xmy5uanlt.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
Message-ID: <33BB3F81-177F-4A02-9F09-44520F4823C4@declareSub.com>


On Aug 20, 2009, at 5:25 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 01:36:14 -0700, Paul Rubin wrote:
>
>> Steven D'Aprano  writes:
>>> As near as I can tell, a functor is just an object which is callable
>>> like a function without actually being implemented as a function,  
>>> e.g.:
>>
>> No it's not anything like that either, at least as I'm used to the  
>> term
>> in programming or in mathematics.  Maybe it's used other ways though.
>
> According to Wikipedia, functor can be used as a synonym for "function
> object":
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Function_object
>
> which is what I was thinking of. So it seems there are at least two
> meanings for the word, neither of which seems to apply to this  
> thread :)
>
>
>
>> As I'm used to it, it's a feature of certain static type systems.   
>> The
>> notion isn't that useful in Python
>
> I find the Haskell page entirely opaque and unintelligible. Well,  
> perhaps
> not *entirely* opaque, but pretty close: it assumes a mathematical
> sophistication that I don't think I even had when I was getting my  
> maths
> degree, let alone can remember two decades later. (Pity the poor VB
> coders wondering what Haskell is good for...) The Wikipedia page is a
> little better, but it's section on Examples is laughable -- the  
> examples
> are as unintelligible to this reader as the description before them.
>

To this reader -- an Rb coder -- the examples were pretty clear.

>
> But let me try an example to see if I've got it right:
>
>
> class Int2StrFunctor:
>    def map1(self, n):
>        if type(n) is not int:
>            raise TypeError('argument must be an int')
>        return "-"*n
>    def map2(self, f):
>        if type(f) is not type(lambda: None):
>            raise TypeError('argument must be a function')
>        # assume f takes an int, and returns another int
>        def inner(n):
>            return self.map1(f(n))
>        return inner
>
>
> The functor can take an int and return a string:
>
>>>> F = Int2StrFunctor()  # F is a functor
>>>> F.map1(3)
> '---'
>
> It can also take a function (of int -> int) and return a new function
> (int -> str):
>
>>>> def myfunc(n):
> ...     return n+2
> ...
>>>> f = F.map2(myfunc)
>>>> f(3)
> '-----'
>>>> f(4)
> '------'
>
>
> There's nothing special about the methods map1() and map2(), I could  
> call
> them anything I like, or even do this:
>
>
>>>> def __call__(self, arg):
> ...     if type(arg) is int:
> ...             return self.map1(arg)
> ...     else:
> ...             return self.map2(arg)
> ...
>>>> Int2StrFunctor.__call__ = __call__
>>>>
>>>> F(2)
> '--'
>>>> F(myfunc)(0)
> '--'
>
>
> There are some technical restrictions on functors, relating to the  
> sorts
> of functions and types (strictly "categories") they can accept,
> presumably to make them mathematically well-behaved.
>
>
> Have I got it correct?
>

I don't think so.  Paul Rubin's square example was, I thought,  
particularly instructive.

Charles Yeomans
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From laser.yuan at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 23:34:20 2009
From: laser.yuan at gmail.com (laser)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 20:34:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: IDLE is not as interactive as Maple
References: <7aa51a98-965c-4c74-a3b5-650140f1d589@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<399082f9-3765-46dc-b71e-618e75256cf9@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <80f61e9c-9c0d-4fc9-a16a-9ef9f90b928c@o9g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

Thanks very much for your information. Reinteract looks like exactly
what I want. It give me the similary feeling of using Maple. I like
this kind of programming style. People who did not have this
experience really should take a try.

On 8?20?, ??9?11?, Andr?  wrote:
> On Aug 20, 12:22 am, laser  wrote:
>
> > In the future, will Python provide programe enviroment like Maple
> > does?
>
> A quick, flip answer: perhaps if you design one?  Tools for Python are
> designed by people scratching an itch.
>
> That being said, have a look at reinteract:http://www.reinteract.org/trac/wiki/Tutorial/Introduction
>
> > In Maple, you can remove anything unneeded in the editor. And
> > the code execution order are not necessary in one direction. You can
> > run any command line on the screen by
> > push Enter key. These functions gave a lot of flaxibility for users to
> > start with programming something.
>
> Andr?



From sflennik at comcast.net  Thu Aug 20 23:53:18 2009
From: sflennik at comcast.net (Steve1234)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 20:53:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: install package in a particular python version
References: <4ae493d4-4669-4e54-a385-6d79d539a778@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <99822c4d-74ef-4a28-b133-42144c7fd25a@f20g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

Benjamin suggested:
sudo python2.5 setup.py install
and it works.  This makes sense, thanks.

I downloaded pythonpkgmgr from source and installed it.  I got the
error that reguired wx package was missing.  I couldn't find this
package for Linux or source.


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Aug 21 01:13:56 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 15:13:56 +1000
Subject: Waiting for a subprocess to exit
Message-ID: <873a7l21gr.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Howdy all,

I'm looking to replace some usages of ?os.system? with the more secure
?subprocess.Popen? methods.

The module documentation has a section on replacing ?os.system?
, which
says to use::

    process = subprocess.Popen("mycmd" + " myarg", shell=True)
    status = os.waitpid(process.pid, 0)

But a ?Popen? instance has its own ?wait? method, which waits for exit
.
Why would I use ?os.waitpid? instead of::

    process = subprocess.Popen("mycmd" + " myarg", shell=True)
    process.wait()
    status = process.returncode

-- 
 \       ?The best is the enemy of the good.? ?Voltaire, _Dictionnaire |
  `\                                                    Philosophique_ |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 01:17:29 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 22:17:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: 2.6 windows install
References: 
Message-ID: <1e18d400-03ec-48ae-b59d-72aa6f5d9f64@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>

"Tim Arnold"  wrote:
> Any ideas on what I'm missing here?

Most likely the required configuration of the local environments.

Did you install Python to the network device from your XP box? That
would explain why you can run it: the required registry settings &
environment variables are added by the installer, none of which is
occurring on any computer other than the one from which you installed.

To be honest, I've never seen a single-point-of-access network
installation of Python for a Windows environment. If it was possible,
I'd expect ActiveState's ActivePython to support it but there's no
mention of it in the list of acceptable installer switches[1].

[1]: http://docs.activestate.com/activepython/2.6/installnotes.html#msi



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Aug 21 01:18:09 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 15:18:09 +1000
Subject: install package in a particular python version
References: <4ae493d4-4669-4e54-a385-6d79d539a778@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87y6pdzqwe.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Steve1234  writes:

> I installed the boto module in my Ubuntu system using "python setup.py
> install" and it installs in my python2.6 version and works great.

That's because your ?python? command is doing the same thing as if you'd
typed::

    $ python2.6 setup.py install

The Python 2.6 interpreter knows where its ?site-packages? path is, and
so ?setup.py? in turn knows where to put files.

> Now I want to install boto into my python2.5 version

Invoke the specific Python interpreter you want::

    $ python2.5 setup.py install

-- 
 \        ?Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. If your ideas |
  `\     are any good, you'll have to ram them down people's throats.? |
_o__)                                                    ?Howard Aiken |
Ben Finney


From josefg at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 02:07:18 2009
From: josefg at gmail.com (josef)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 23:07:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Object Reference question
Message-ID: <2dcf41c3-6623-48d9-bb74-97f753088479@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

To begin, I'm new with python. I've read a few discussions about
object references and I think I understand them.

To be clear, Python uses a "Pass By Object Reference" model.
x = 1
x becomes the object reference, while an object is created with the
type 'int', value 1, and identifier (id(x)). Doing this with a class,
x = myclass(), does the same thing, but with more or less object
attributes. Every object has a type and an identifier (id()),
according to the Python Language Reference for 2.6.2 section 3.1.

x in both cases is the object reference. I would like to use the
object to refer to the object reference. If I have a gross
misunderstanding, please correct me.

The following is what I would like to do:
I have a list of class instances dk = [ a, b, c, d ], where a, b, c, d
is an object reference. Entering dk gives me the object: [MyClass0
instance at 0x0000, MyClass1 instance at 0x0008, MyClass2 instance at
0x0010 ... ]

I need the object reference name (a,b,c,d) from dk to use as input for
a file. Where do I find the memory location of the object reference
and the object reference name memory location? I am unconcerned with
the fact that the memory location will change the next time I run a
python session. I will be using the object reference name for
processing right away.

My main focus of this post is: "How do I find and use object reference
memory locations?"

Thoughts?
Thanks,

Josef


From milesck at umich.edu  Fri Aug 21 02:18:35 2009
From: milesck at umich.edu (Miles Kaufmann)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 23:18:35 -0700
Subject: Waiting for a subprocess to exit
In-Reply-To: <873a7l21gr.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <873a7l21gr.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 20, 2009, at 10:13 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
> The module documentation has a section on replacing ?os.system?
> , which
> says to use::
>
>    process = subprocess.Popen("mycmd" + " myarg", shell=True)
>    status = os.waitpid(process.pid, 0)
>
> But a ?Popen? instance has its own ?wait? method, which waits for exit
> .
> Why would I use ?os.waitpid? instead of::
>
>    process = subprocess.Popen("mycmd" + " myarg", shell=True)
>    process.wait()
>    status = process.returncode

Really, you can just use:

   process = subprocess.Popen("mycmd" + " myarg", shell=True)
   status = process.wait()

I'm not sure why the documentation suggests using os.waitpid.

I would recommend avoiding shell=True whenever possible.  It's used in  
the examples, I suspect, to ease the transition from the functions  
being replaced, but all it takes is for a filename or some other input  
to unexpectedly contain whitespace or a metacharacter and your script  
will stop working--or worse, do damage (cf. the iTunes 2 installer  
debacle[1]).  Leaving shell=False makes scripts more secure and  
robust; besides, when I'm putting together a command and its  
arguments, it's as convenient to build a list (['mycmd', 'myarg']) as  
it is a string (if not more so).

-Miles

[1]: http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/11/04/0412209#comment_2518563

From milesck at umich.edu  Fri Aug 21 02:34:13 2009
From: milesck at umich.edu (Miles Kaufmann)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 23:34:13 -0700
Subject: Object Reference question
In-Reply-To: <2dcf41c3-6623-48d9-bb74-97f753088479@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <2dcf41c3-6623-48d9-bb74-97f753088479@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <502C2E44-39EE-42E5-A9EA-3110CAEFF99D@umich.edu>

On Aug 20, 2009, at 11:07 PM, josef wrote:

> To begin, I'm new with python. I've read a few discussions about
> object references and I think I understand them.
>
> To be clear, Python uses a "Pass By Object Reference" model.
> x = 1
> x becomes the object reference, while an object is created with the
> type 'int', value 1, and identifier (id(x)). Doing this with a class,
> x = myclass(), does the same thing, but with more or less object
> attributes. Every object has a type and an identifier (id()),
> according to the Python Language Reference for 2.6.2 section 3.1.
>
> x in both cases is the object reference. I would like to use the
> object to refer to the object reference.

Stop right there.  'x' is not *the* object reference.  It is *an*  
object reference (or in my preferred terminology, a label).  Suppose  
you do:

x = myclass()
y = x

The labels 'x' and 'y' both refer to the same object with equal  
precedence.  There is no mapping from object back to label; it is a  
one-way pointer.  Also importantly, labels themselves are not objects,  
and cannot be accessed or referred to.

(This is a slight oversimplification; thanks to Python's reflection  
and introspection capabilities, it is possible to access labels to  
some extent, and in some limited situations it is possible to use  
stack inspection to obtain a label for an object.  But this is hackish  
and error-prone, and should never be used when a more Pythonic method  
is available.)

> The following is what I would like to do:
> I have a list of class instances dk = [ a, b, c, d ], where a, b, c, d
> is an object reference. Entering dk gives me the object: [MyClass0
> instance at 0x0000, MyClass1 instance at 0x0008, MyClass2 instance at
> 0x0010 ... ]
>
> I need the object reference name (a,b,c,d) from dk to use as input for
> a file.

It sounds like you should either be storing that name as an attribute  
of the object, or using a dictionary ({'a': a, 'b': b, ...}).

-Miles



From clp2 at rebertia.com  Fri Aug 21 02:39:41 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 23:39:41 -0700
Subject: Object Reference question
In-Reply-To: <502C2E44-39EE-42E5-A9EA-3110CAEFF99D@umich.edu>
References: <2dcf41c3-6623-48d9-bb74-97f753088479@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<502C2E44-39EE-42E5-A9EA-3110CAEFF99D@umich.edu>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908202339w46e11252xc1fb86f770423f19@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 11:34 PM, Miles Kaufmann wrote:
> On Aug 20, 2009, at 11:07 PM, josef wrote:

>> The following is what I would like to do:
>> I have a list of class instances dk = [ a, b, c, d ], where a, b, c, d
>> is an object reference. Entering dk gives me the object: [MyClass0
>> instance at 0x0000, MyClass1 instance at 0x0008, MyClass2 instance at
>> 0x0010 ... ]
>>
>> I need the object reference name (a,b,c,d) from dk to use as input for
>> a file.
>
> It sounds like you should either be storing that name as an attribute of the
> object, or using a dictionary ({'a': a, 'b': b, ...}).

Shorter way to produce the same dictionary:
dict(a=a, b=b, ...)

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From python at rcn.com  Fri Aug 21 02:42:34 2009
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 23:42:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: #elements of seq A in seq B
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 19, 4:19?pm, Neal Becker  wrote:
> What would be a time efficient way to count the number of occurrences of
> elements of sequence A in sequence B? ?(in this particular case, these
> sequences are strings, if that matters).

Python 3.1.1 (r311:74483, Aug 17 2009, 17:02:12) [MSC v.1500 32 bit
(Intel)] on win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license()" for more information.
>>> import collections
>>> A = 'abc'
>>> B = 'abracadabra'
>>> collections.Counter(filter(A.__contains__, B))
Counter({'a': 5, 'b': 2, 'c': 1})


Raymond


From python at rcn.com  Fri Aug 21 02:44:29 2009
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 23:44:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: #elements of seq A in seq B
References: 
Message-ID: <3f0fe16b-19df-4e48-94a6-96ea303c6ff2@g1g2000pra.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 19, 4:19?pm, Neal Becker  wrote:
> What would be a time efficient way to count the number of occurrences of
> elements of sequence A in sequence B? ?(in this particular case, these
> sequences are strings, if that matters).

Python 3.1.1 (r311:74483, Aug 17 2009, 17:02:12) [MSC v.1500 32 bit
(Intel)] on win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license()" for more information.
>>> import collections
>>> A = 'abc'
>>> B = 'abracadabra'
>>> collections.Counter(filter(set(A).__contains__, B))
Counter({'a': 5, 'b': 2, 'c': 1})

Raymond


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Fri Aug 21 02:50:13 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 08:50:13 +0200
Subject: Object Reference question
In-Reply-To: <2dcf41c3-6623-48d9-bb74-97f753088479@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <2dcf41c3-6623-48d9-bb74-97f753088479@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <200908210850.14075.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Friday 21 August 2009 08:07:18 josef wrote:

> My main focus of this post is: "How do I find and use object reference
> memory locations?"

>>> a = [1,2,3,4]
>>> id(a)
8347088
>>>  

- Hendrik


From josefg at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 02:56:57 2009
From: josefg at gmail.com (josef)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 23:56:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Object Reference question
References: <2dcf41c3-6623-48d9-bb74-97f753088479@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <627db5cc-7758-4d09-9ca4-78bc501c2626@d4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 21, 1:34?am, Miles Kaufmann  wrote:
> On Aug 20, 2009, at 11:07 PM, josef wrote:
>
> > To begin, I'm new with python. I've read a few discussions about
> > object references and I think I understand them.
>
> > To be clear, Python uses a "Pass By Object Reference" model.
> > x = 1
> > x becomes the object reference, while an object is created with the
> > type 'int', value 1, and identifier (id(x)). Doing this with a class,
> > x = myclass(), does the same thing, but with more or less object
> > attributes. Every object has a type and an identifier (id()),
> > according to the Python Language Reference for 2.6.2 section 3.1.
>
> > x in both cases is the object reference. I would like to use the
> > object to refer to the object reference.
>
> Stop right there. ?'x' is not *the* object reference. ?It is *an* ?
> object reference (or in my preferred terminology, a label). ?Suppose ?
> you do:
>
> x = myclass()
> y = x

It would not make sense to do that in the context of the software I am
writing. The documentation will specifically state not to do that. If
the user does do that, then the user will be disappointed and possibly
angry.

>
> The labels 'x' and 'y' both refer to the same object with equal ?
> precedence. ?There is no mapping from object back to label; it is a ?
> one-way pointer. ?Also importantly, labels themselves are not objects, ?
> and cannot be accessed or referred to.

I would just like to store the name of the one way pointer.

>
> (This is a slight oversimplification; thanks to Python's reflection ?
> and introspection capabilities, it is possible to access labels to ?
> some extent, and in some limited situations it is possible to use ?
> stack inspection to obtain a label for an object. ?But this is hackish ?
> and error-prone, and should never be used when a more Pythonic method ?
> is available.)

Hackish is fine. How error-prone is this method?
>
> > The following is what I would like to do:
> > I have a list of class instances dk = [ a, b, c, d ], where a, b, c, d
> > is an object reference. Entering dk gives me the object: [MyClass0
> > instance at 0x0000, MyClass1 instance at 0x0008, MyClass2 instance at
> > 0x0010 ... ]
>
> > I need the object reference name (a,b,c,d) from dk to use as input for
> > a file.
>
> It sounds like you should either be storing that name as an attribute ?
> of the object, or using a dictionary ({'a': a, 'b': b, ...}).

That solution was mentioned in some of the discussions I read, but I
would like to stay away from something like: a = MyClass
(name='a', ...). Is it possible to assign an object reference name in
a class __init__ defintion?


From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Aug 21 03:43:51 2009
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 09:43:51 +0200
Subject: #elements of seq A in seq B
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

Jan Kaliszewski wrote:

> 20-08-2009 o 13:01:29 Neal Becker  wrote:
> 
>> I meant #occurrences of characters from the set A in string B
> 
> But:
> 
> 1) separately for each element of A? (see Simon's sollution with
> defaultdict)
> 
> 2) or total number of all occurrences of elements of A? (see below)
> 
> 
> 20-08-2009 o 14:05:12 Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:
> 
>> identity = "".join(map(chr, range(256)))
>> n = len(b) - len(b.translate(identity, a))
> 
> Nice, though I'd prefer Simon's sollution:
> 
>      a = set(a)
>      n = sum(item in a for item in b)

Just to give you an idea why I posted the former:

$ python -m timeit -s"a = set('abc'); b = 'abcdefg'*10**5" 'sum(item in a 
for item in b)'
10 loops, best of 3: 195 msec per loop

$ python -m timeit -s"a = 'abc'; b = 'abcdefg'*10**5; id=''.join(map(chr, 
range(256)))" 'len(b) - len(b.translate(id, a))'
100 loops, best of 3: 4.97 msec per loop

Peter



From davea at ieee.org  Fri Aug 21 03:56:57 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 03:56:57 -0400
Subject: Object Reference question
In-Reply-To: <2dcf41c3-6623-48d9-bb74-97f753088479@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <2dcf41c3-6623-48d9-bb74-97f753088479@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A8E5349.80104@ieee.org>

josef wrote:
> To begin, I'm new with python. I've read a few discussions about
> object references and I think I understand them.
>
> To be clear, Python uses a "Pass By Object Reference" model.
> x = 1
> x becomes the object reference, while an object is created with the
> type 'int', value 1, and identifier (id(x)). Doing this with a class,
> x = myclass(), does the same thing, but with more or less object
> attributes. Every object has a type and an identifier (id()),
> according to the Python Language Reference for 2.6.2 section 3.1.
>
> x in both cases is the object reference. I would like to use the
> object to refer to the object reference. If I have a gross
> misunderstanding, please correct me.
>
> The following is what I would like to do:
> I have a list of class instances dk = [ a, b, c, d ], where a, b, c, d
> is an object reference. Entering dk gives me the object: [MyClass0
> instance at 0x0000, MyClass1 instance at 0x0008, MyClass2 instance at
> 0x0010 ... ]
>
> I need the object reference name (a,b,c,d) from dk to use as input for
> a file. Where do I find the memory location of the object reference
> and the object reference name memory location? I am unconcerned with
> the fact that the memory location will change the next time I run a
> python session. I will be using the object reference name for
> processing right away.
>
> My main focus of this post is: "How do I find and use object reference
> memory locations?"
>
> Thoughts?
> Thanks,
>
> Josef
>
>   
There was a similar query here within the last couple of months, and 
lots of interesting discussion.  But I never saw a use case convincing 
enough for me to want to remember how the various suggestions worked.  
Just how are you planning to use this?  Are you planning to write a 
debugger?

Or are you trying to keep mnemonic names for all instances of a 
particular class?  Is this for a particular program's use, or are you 
trying to create a library to be used to reverse engineer some software 
you con't control?

Several of your phrasings imply you don't understand Python yet.

"memory location" - invisible to python use.  And although id() will 
give you a hash-code that's actually a memory address, there's no direct 
way to use it.  And names (attributes) don't necessarily have an address.
"the object reference name (a,b,c,d) from dk"  What is this?  There's 
nothing that even conceptually looks like that when you assign   dk = 
[a, b, c, d]


A given object may have one to many references, and some of these may 
have names.  If you constrain those names to be in a particular context, 
it may be possible to search for which name(s) currently happen(s) to 
point to the given object.  For example, if you have the following at 
top level in a module:

a = MyClass0()
b = MyClass1()
c = MyClass2()
dk = [a, b, c]

then, given the  id() of  dk[2], you could search the particular modules 
global name dictionary, and find c.  But for the following fragment, you 
could not:

a = MyClass0()
b = MyClass1()
c = MyClass2()
dk = [a, b, c]
c = 42

dk remains the same, but the dk[2] item no longer has any name 
referencing it.

At any given instant of time, most objects in a typical program have no 
name associated with them.  Many of them never did have a name.  What 
would you want if dk had been created as:

dk = [MyClass0(), MyClass1(), MyClass2()]

or if a, b, and/or c were local variables in a function that's long 
since quit running, or that has run many times, each time creating new 
objects?

DaveA



From catalinfest at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 04:09:09 2009
From: catalinfest at gmail.com (catafest)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 01:09:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: PIL and Python
References: 
	<9683190f-3c99-49d6-93d1-d8966d38d7a6@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> 
	 
	
Message-ID: <5df342cf-c742-42d6-bc8c-97a3c44a0816@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

I don't extract data from jpegs.
I wanna put some data in this (copyright of my site) ...

On Aug 20, 2:01?pm, MaxTheMouse  wrote:
> On Aug 20, 10:23?am, catafest  wrote:
>
> > On my photo jpg i have this :
>
> > Image Type: jpeg (The JPEG image format)
> > Width: 1224 pixels
> > Height: 1632 pixels
> > Camera Brand: Sony Ericsson
> > Camera Model: W810i
> > Date Taken: 2009:07:09 08:16:21
> > Exposure Time: 1/19 sec.
> > ISO Speed Rating: 320
> > Flash Fired: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode.
> > Metering Mode: Center-Weighted Average
> > Software: R4EA031 ? ? prgCXC1250321_ORANGE_HN 4.5
>
> > This is the data i want edit it to make some copyright for my site.
>
> I don't know about PIL but you might want to try exif.py.http://sourceforge.net/projects/exif-py/



From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Fri Aug 21 04:34:09 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 10:34:09 +0200
Subject: Object Reference question
In-Reply-To: <2dcf41c3-6623-48d9-bb74-97f753088479@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <2dcf41c3-6623-48d9-bb74-97f753088479@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a8e5bf6$0$15180$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

josef a ?crit :
> To begin, I'm new with python. I've read a few discussions about
> object references and I think I understand them.
> 
> To be clear, Python uses a "Pass By Object Reference" model.
> x = 1
> x becomes the object reference, while an object is created with the
> type 'int', value 1, and identifier (id(x)). Doing this with a class,
> x = myclass(), does the same thing, but with more or less object
> attributes. Every object has a type and an identifier (id()),
> according to the Python Language Reference for 2.6.2 section 3.1.
> 
> x in both cases is the object reference. 

Nope. It's *a* reference to the object - or, more exactly, a key in a 
mapping (the current namespace), which is associatied with a reference 
to the object. You can translate:

    x = 1

to:

   current_namespace['x'] = int(1)


> I would like to use the
> object to refer to the object reference. If I have a gross
> misunderstanding, please correct me.
> 
> The following is what I would like to do:
> I have a list of class instances dk = [ a, b, c, d ], where a, b, c, d
> is an object reference. Entering dk gives me the object: [MyClass0
> instance at 0x0000, MyClass1 instance at 0x0008, MyClass2 instance at
> 0x0010 ... ]
> 
> I need the object reference name (a,b,c,d) from dk to use as input for
> a file.

???

Could you elaborate, please ?

>  Where do I find the memory location of the object reference
> and the object reference name memory location? 

short answer : you don't. Python is a high level language, 'memory 
location' is an implementation detail (and highly 
implementation-dependant), and *not* exposed (at least not in any usable 
way).

> I am unconcerned with
> the fact that the memory location will change the next time I run a
> python session. I will be using the object reference name for
> processing right away.
> 
> My main focus of this post is: "How do I find and use object reference
> memory locations?"
> 
> Thoughts?

Yes : please explain the problem you're trying to solve. I mean, the 
*real* problem - what you want to achieve -, not what you think is the 
solution !-)


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Fri Aug 21 04:36:38 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 05:36:38 -0300
Subject: difference between 2 arrays
References: 
	<4a8d1d3f$0$23447$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr>
Message-ID: 

En Thu, 20 Aug 2009 06:54:05 -0300, <""Michel Claveau -  
MVP"> escribi?:

> Yes, the module sets is written, in doc, like "deprecated".
> But:
>   - sets exist in Python 2.6 (& 2.5 or 2.4)
>   - documentation of sets (module) is better tha, documentation of set  
> (builtin)
>
> The best: read the documentaion of the module, and use the builtin...

Any suggestion to improve the builtin set documentation? In what ways do  
you see one is better than the other?

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From dickey at his.com  Fri Aug 21 04:47:42 2009
From: dickey at his.com (Thomas Dickey)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 01:47:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ncurses getch & unicode (was: decoding keyboard input when using 
	curses)
References: <65a1d6f80908200936g18b235fcw49d0047168cf9548@mail.gmail.com> 
	
Message-ID: <0a683d75-ac07-40a6-8374-2a2e900ac0ba@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 20, 6:12?pm, I?igo Serna  wrote:
> Hi again,
>
> 2009/8/20 I?igo Serna 
> > I have the same problem mentioned inhttp://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/...some months ago.
>
> > Python 2.6 program which usesncursesmodule in a terminal configured to use UTF-8 encoding.
>
> > When trying to get input from keyboard, a non-ascii character (like ?) is returned as 2 integers < 255, needing 2 calls to getch method to get both.
> > These two integers \xc3 \xa7 forms the utf-8 encoded representation of ? character.
>
> >ncursesget_wch documentation states the function should return an unique integer > 255 with the ordinal representation of that unicode char encoded in UTF-8, \xc3a7.
>
> Answering myself, I've copied at the bottom of this email a working
> solution, but the question still remains: why win.getch() doesn't
> return the correct value?

The code looks consistent with the curses functions...

> Kind regards,
> I?igo Serna
>
> ######################################################################
> # test.py
> import curses
>
> import locale
> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, '')
> print locale.getpreferredencoding()
>
> def get_char(win):
> ??? def get_check_next_byte():
> ??????? c = win.getch()

You're using "getch", not "get_wch" (Python's ncurses binding may/may
not have the latter).
curses getch returns 8-bit values, get_wch would return wider values.


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Aug 21 04:49:19 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 18:49:19 +1000
Subject: Waiting for a subprocess to exit
References: <873a7l21gr.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
Message-ID: <87fxbllfg0.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Miles Kaufmann  writes:

> On Aug 20, 2009, at 10:13 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
> > Why would I use ?os.waitpid? instead of::
> >
> >    process = subprocess.Popen("mycmd" + " myarg", shell=True)
> >    process.wait()
> >    status = process.returncode
>
> Really, you can just use:
>
>   process = subprocess.Popen("mycmd" + " myarg", shell=True)
>   status = process.wait()

Ah thanks, that's even better.

> I'm not sure why the documentation suggests using os.waitpid.

Could someone who knows how to drive the Python BTS please report that
against the ?subprocess? documentation?

-- 
 \       ?I am amazed, O Wall, that you have not collapsed and fallen, |
  `\            since you must bear the tedious stupidities of so many |
_o__)                  scrawlers.? ?anonymous graffiti, Pompeii, 79 CE |
Ben Finney


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Fri Aug 21 04:52:05 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 10:52:05 +0200
Subject: Problem with arrays in a recursive class function
In-Reply-To: <190378bc-f095-46fa-9104-cb94fa09698f@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <190378bc-f095-46fa-9104-cb94fa09698f@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a8e6029$0$20864$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

Aaron Scott a ?crit :
> I have a list of nodes, and I need to find a path from one node to
> another. The nodes each have a list of nodes they are connected to,
> set up like this:
> 
> 
> 
> class Node(object):
> 	def __init__(self, connectedNodes):
> 		self.connectedNodes = connectedNodes
> 
> nodes = {
> 	1: Node([4]),
> 	2: Node([3]),
> 	3: Node([2, 4, 5]),
> 	4: Node([1, 6, 3]),
> 	5: Node([3, 7]),
> 	6: Node([4, 9]),
> 	7: Node([5, 8]),
> 	8: Node([7, 9]),
> 	9: Node([6, 8])
> }
> 
> 
> 
> I made a quick brute-force pathfinder to solve it (in this case, a
> path from node 1 to node 9). Here it is:
> 
> 
> 
> class PathFind(object):
> 	def __init__(self, source, destination):
> 		self.source = source
> 		self.destination = destination
> 		self.solved = []
> 	def Search(self):
> 		self.PathFind([self.source])
 >
> 		if self.solved:
> 			print "Solutions: "
> 			for i in self.solved:
> 				print "\t" + str(i)

                                 print "\t%s" % i

> 		else:
> 			print "Couldn't solve."
> 	def PathFind(self, trail):
> 		location = trail[-1]
> 		if location == self.destination:
> 			self.solved.append(trail)

I think you want
                         self.solved.append(trail[:])

Hint : Python doesn't use "pass by value".


  > The problem is the array trail[], which seems to survive from instance
> to instance of PathFind(). I thought that by calling self.PathFind
> (trail[:]), I was creating a new copy of trail[], 

Yes. But on the 'not solved' branch, you do mutate trail !-)


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Aug 21 05:08:08 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 19:08:08 +1000
Subject: Sanitising arguments to shell commands (was: Waiting for a subprocess
	to exit)
References: <873a7l21gr.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
Message-ID: <87ab1tlekn.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>

Miles Kaufmann  writes:

> I would recommend avoiding shell=True whenever possible. It's used in
> the examples, I suspect, to ease the transition from the functions
> being replaced, but all it takes is for a filename or some other input
> to unexpectedly contain whitespace or a metacharacter and your script
> will stop working--or worse, do damage (cf. the iTunes 2 installer
> debacle[1]).

Agreed, and that's my motivation for learning about ?subprocess.Popen?.

> Leaving shell=False makes scripts more secure and robust; besides,
> when I'm putting together a command and its arguments, it's as
> convenient to build a list (['mycmd', 'myarg']) as it is a string (if
> not more so).

Which leads to another issue:

I'm modifying a program that gets its child process command arguments
from three places:

* hard-coded text within the program (e.g. the command name, and
  context-specific arguments for the specific operation to be performed)

* user-customised options to be added to the command line

* filenames from the program's own command line

For the hard-coded argument text, obviously they can simply be
hard-coded as list elements::

    command_args = ["foo", "--bar"]

The filenames to be processed can also be appended one item per
filename.

However, the user-customised options are specified by the user in a
configuration file, as a single string argument::

    [fooprogram]
    additional_args = --baz 'crunch cronch' --wobble

This works fine if the command line is constructed by dumb string
concatenation; but obviously it fails when I try to construct a list of
command line arguments.

It's quite reasonable for the user to expect to be able to put any
partial shell command-line in that string option and expect it will be
processed by the shell, including any quoting or other escaping.

How can I take a string that is intended to be part of a command line,
representing multiple arguments and the shell's own escape characters as
in the above example, and end up with a sane command argument list for
?subprocess.Popen??

E.g.::

    parser = optparse.OptionParser()
    (options_args) = parser.parse_args(argv[1:])
    filenames = args

    config = configparser.ConfigParser()
    config.read([system_config_file_path, user_config_file_path])
    user_configured_args = config.get('fooprogram', 'additional_args')

    command_args = ["foo", "--bar"]
    somehow_append_each_argument(command_args, user_configured_args)
    command_args.extend(filenames)

    command_process = subprocess.Popen(command_args, shell=False)

The resulting ?command_args? list should be::

    ["foo", "--bar",
     "--baz", "crunch cronch", "--wobble",
     "spam.txt", "beans.txt"]

How can I write the ?somehow_append_each_argument? step to get that
result?

-- 
 \                ?Every sentence I utter must be understood not as an |
  `\                      affirmation, but as a question.? ?Niels Bohr |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Fri Aug 21 05:19:13 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 02:19:13 -0700
Subject: Sanitising arguments to shell commands (was: Waiting for a 
	subprocess to exit)
In-Reply-To: <87ab1tlekn.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
References: <873a7l21gr.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
	<87ab1tlekn.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908210219i5e02c0cbq2d63bff891624ef4@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 2:08 AM, Ben Finney wrote:

> How can I take a string that is intended to be part of a command line,
> representing multiple arguments and the shell's own escape characters as
> in the above example, and end up with a sane command argument list for
> ?subprocess.Popen??

http://docs.python.org/library/shlex.html

module shlex ? Simple lexical analysis
New in version 1.5.2.
"The shlex class makes it easy to write lexical analyzers for simple
syntaxes resembling that of the Unix shell."

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Aug 21 05:22:03 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 11:22:03 +0200
Subject: Sanitising arguments to shell commands
In-Reply-To: <87ab1tlekn.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
References: <873a7l21gr.fsf@benfinney.id.au>	
	<87ab1tlekn.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <4A8E673B.3060606@sequans.com>

Ben Finney wrote:
> Miles Kaufmann  writes:
>
>   
>> I would recommend avoiding shell=True whenever possible. It's used in
>> the examples, I suspect, to ease the transition from the functions
>> being replaced, but all it takes is for a filename or some other input
>> to unexpectedly contain whitespace or a metacharacter and your script
>> will stop working--or worse, do damage (cf. the iTunes 2 installer
>> debacle[1]).
>>     
>
> Agreed, and that's my motivation for learning about ?subprocess.Popen?.
>   

Can someone explain the difference with the shell argument ? giving for 
instance an example of what True will do that False won't. I mean, I've 
read the doc, and to be honest, I didn't get it.
I'm concerned because I'm using subprocess, but I guess my shell arg has 
been filled a little bit random..

JM


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Aug 21 05:26:54 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 19:26:54 +1000
Subject: Object Reference question
References: <2dcf41c3-6623-48d9-bb74-97f753088479@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8763chldpd.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

josef  writes:

> To be clear, Python uses a "Pass By Object Reference" model.

Yes. (I'm glad this concept has propagated to newcomers so well :-)

> x = 1
> x becomes the object reference

It becomes *a* reference to that object, independent of any other
references to that same object.

> while an object is created with the type 'int', value 1, and
> identifier (id(x)).

Not really ?while?. The object creation happens first, then the
assignment statement binds a reference to that object.

> Doing this with a class, x = myclass(), does the same thing, but with
> more or less object attributes. Every object has a type and an
> identifier (id()), according to the Python Language Reference for
> 2.6.2 section 3.1.

Any expression can be on the right side of the assignment operator. The
expression will evaluate to some object, which the assignment will then
bind to the reference on the left side of the assignment operator.

> x in both cases is the object reference.

It is *an* object reference; that is, it's an identifier which refers to
an object. There's nothing about that identifier that makes it ?the (one
and only) object reference?.

> I would like to use the object to refer to the object reference. If I
> have a gross misunderstanding, please correct me.

Yes, it's a simple misunderstanding: objects do not, in general, know
any of the references there may be to them.

> The following is what I would like to do: I have a list of class
> instances dk = [ a, b, c, d ], where a, b, c, d is an object
> reference.

Note that, after that list is created, each item in that list is *also*
a reference to the corresponding object. That is, ?a? is a reference to
an object, and ?dk[0]? is a *different* reference to the *same* object.
The object has no knowledge about those references.

> Entering dk gives me the object: [MyClass0 instance at 0x0000,
> MyClass1 instance at 0x0008, MyClass2 instance at 0x0010 ... ]

This is a hint that, when asked for a string representation, each of the
objects in that list can say little more than that they are of a
particular type, and are located at a particular memory address. They do
not know any of the references to themselves.

> I need the object reference name (a,b,c,d) from dk to use as input for
> a file.

You'll have to track that yourself.

A good way to keep track of name-to-object mappings is with Python's
built-in mapping type, ?dict?::

    dk = {'a': a, 'b': b, 'c': c, 'd': d}

(There are more efficient ways to create a dictionary without such
repetition, of course, but this is more illustrative of the point.)

You can then get a list (assembled in arbitrary sequence) of just the
keys, or just the values, or the key-value pairs, from the dict with its
?keys?, ?values?, and ?items? methods respectively::

    >>> dk = {'a': a, 'b': b, 'c': c, 'd': d}
    >>> dk.keys()
    ['a', 'c', 'd', 'b']
    >>> dk.values()
    [, , , ]
    >>> dk.items()
    [('b', ), ('c', ), ('a',  ), ('d',  )]

Each of these is even better used as the iterable for a ?for? loop::

    >>> for (key, value) in dk.items():
    ...     print "Here is item named", key
    ...     print value

> My main focus of this post is: "How do I find and use object reference
> memory locations?"

You don't. Use the references in your code, forget about the memory
addresses, and remember that container objects themselves contain
references, so use them for organising your objects.

-- 
 \     ?Demagogue: One who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to |
  `\                     men he knows to be idiots.? ?Henry L. Mencken |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Aug 21 06:18:29 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 20:18:29 +1000
Subject: Sanitising arguments to shell commands
References: <873a7l21gr.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
	<87ab1tlekn.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
	
Message-ID: <87ws4xjwqy.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Jean-Michel Pichavant  writes:

> Can someone explain the difference with the shell argument ? giving
> for instance an example of what True will do that False won't.

The ?shell? argument to the ?subprocess.Popen? constructor specifies
whether the command-line should be invoked directly (?shell=False?) or
indirectly through invoking a shell (?shell=True?).

If ?shell=False?, the command-line arguments are used as direct
arguments to the kernel's ?run this program for me?.

If ?shell=True? the command-line arguments are themselves passed to a
new instance of the user's current shell, as a command line that *it*
should invoke on the program's behalf. This allows the command line to
be manipulated and interpolated etc., the way it would be if typed at a
new shell prompt. Then, that shell will in turn ask the kernel ?run this
program for me? as it normally does after processing the arguments.

> I mean, I've read the doc, and to be honest, I didn't get it. I'm
> concerned because I'm using subprocess, but I guess my shell arg has
> been filled a little bit random..

Use ?shell=False? by default (which, since that's the default for
?subprocess.Popen?, means you can omit it entirely), and specify exactly
the command line arguments you want the kernel to execute. Only if you
know you want a shell process to be involved should you use
?shell=True?.

-- 
 \     ?Welchen Teil von ?Gestalt? verstehen Sie nicht?  [What part of |
  `\                ?gestalt? don't you understand?]? ?Karsten M. Self |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Aug 21 06:26:02 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 20:26:02 +1000
Subject: Sanitising arguments to shell commands
References: <873a7l21gr.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
	<87ab1tlekn.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
	
Message-ID: <87skfljwed.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Chris Rebert  writes:

> module shlex ? Simple lexical analysis
> New in version 1.5.2.
> "The shlex class makes it easy to write lexical analyzers for simple
> syntaxes resembling that of the Unix shell."

Exactly what I needed:

>>> import shlex
>>> user_configured_args = "--baz 'crunch cronch' --wobble"
>>> filenames = ["spam.txt", "beans.txt"]
>>> command_args = ["foo", "--bar"]
>>> command_args.extend(shlex.split(user_configured_args))
>>> command_args.extend(filenames)
>>> command_args
['foo', '--bar', '--baz', 'crunch cronch', '--wobble', 'spam.txt', 'beans.txt']

-- 
 \         ?Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?? ?I think so, |
  `\    Brain, but if we get Sam Spade, we'll never have any puppies.? |
_o__)                                           ?_Pinky and The Brain_ |
Ben Finney


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Fri Aug 21 06:31:33 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 07:31:33 -0300
Subject: Zipimport leaks memory?
References: <6CC019B5D220A147932441E798B252B910B0193FEF@NOK-EUMSG-05.mgdnok.nokia.com>
Message-ID: 

En Thu, 20 Aug 2009 07:02:26 -0300, ashwin.u.rao at nokia.com  
 escribi?:

> We are currently trying to identify and fix all the memory leaks by just  
> doing Py_Initialize-PyRun_SimpleFile(some simple script)-Py_Finalize and  
> found that there are around 70 malloc-ed blocks which are not freed. One  
> of the significant contributor to this number is the 'files' object in  
> ZipImporter.  I am not able to identify the reason for this leak and was  
> wondering if anyone on this list would help me out here.
>
> So, here goes :
>
> Since we have a zip file in our sys.path, this object is initialized and  
> added to the zip_directory_cache dict during Py_Initialize. One point to  
> note here is that there is no DECREF on the 'files' object after adding  
> it to the zip_directory_cache dict.
>
> When a module in a directory is imported(encoding.alias) then the  
> reference count of 'files' is increased. When this module is unloaded  
> during Py_Finalize-PyImport_Cleanup, the ref count of files object is  
> decremented properly. So at the end of Py_Finalize the files object  
> still has one reference count which is a result of it being an entry in  
> the zip_directory_cache.

I didn't read the source, but isn't that the expected behavior? If the  
module is still referenced by zip_directory_cache, the reference count  
must be 1 or more.
Maybe zip_directory_cache should be cleared at interpreter shutdown?

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From inigoserna at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 07:58:38 2009
From: inigoserna at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?ScOxaWdvIFNlcm5h?=)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 13:58:38 +0200
Subject: ncurses getch & unicode (was: decoding keyboard input when using 
	curses)
In-Reply-To: <0a683d75-ac07-40a6-8374-2a2e900ac0ba@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
References: <65a1d6f80908200936g18b235fcw49d0047168cf9548@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<0a683d75-ac07-40a6-8374-2a2e900ac0ba@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <65a1d6f80908210458hfa33699m398d9af6eab67674@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/21 Thomas Dickey :
> On Aug 20, 6:12?pm, I?igo Serna  wrote:
>> ??????? c = win.getch()
>
> You're using "getch", not "get_wch" (Python's ncurses binding may/may
> not have the latter).
> curses getch returns 8-bit values, get_wch would return wider values.

you are right, ncurses binding does not have get_wch, only getch, and
this last is the only one called in ncurses library bindings.


Anyway, I've written a patch to include the get_wch method in the bindings.
See http://bugs.python.org/issue6755


Thanks for the clarification,
I?igo


From georavel at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 21 08:46:07 2009
From: georavel at yahoo.com (Justin)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 05:46:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: list 'results' from maps.google then crawl
Message-ID: <81b5a7ba-49c7-4750-ad1d-5564973b6b8c@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>

list 'results' from maps.google then crawl through the (engine of some
sort) space to the 'results' website and look at it html to find the
contact


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Aug 21 08:55:33 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:55:33 +0200
Subject: Sanitising arguments to shell commands
In-Reply-To: <87ws4xjwqy.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <873a7l21gr.fsf@benfinney.id.au>		<87ab1tlekn.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>	
	<87ws4xjwqy.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <4A8E9945.40906@sequans.com>

Ben Finney wrote:
> Jean-Michel Pichavant  writes:
>
>   
>> Can someone explain the difference with the shell argument ? giving
>> for instance an example of what True will do that False won't.
>>     
>
> The ?shell? argument to the ?subprocess.Popen? constructor specifies
> whether the command-line should be invoked directly (?shell=False?) or
> indirectly through invoking a shell (?shell=True?).
>
> If ?shell=False?, the command-line arguments are used as direct
> arguments to the kernel's ?run this program for me?.
>
> If ?shell=True? the command-line arguments are themselves passed to a
> new instance of the user's current shell, as a command line that *it*
> should invoke on the program's behalf. This allows the command line to
> be manipulated and interpolated etc., the way it would be if typed at a
> new shell prompt. Then, that shell will in turn ask the kernel ?run this
> program for me? as it normally does after processing the arguments.
>
>   
>> I mean, I've read the doc, and to be honest, I didn't get it. I'm
>> concerned because I'm using subprocess, but I guess my shell arg has
>> been filled a little bit random..
>>     
>
> Use ?shell=False? by default (which, since that's the default for
> ?subprocess.Popen?, means you can omit it entirely), and specify exactly
> the command line arguments you want the kernel to execute. Only if you
> know you want a shell process to be involved should you use
> ?shell=True?.
>
>   
Thank you Ben for the update. It's clear for me now, I've checked and I 
use it with no shell arg, except at one place, but I don't think it's 
intended and it happens to work anyway. I've added a small comment just 
in case it fails in the future.

JM


From rickbking at comcast.net  Fri Aug 21 09:07:04 2009
From: rickbking at comcast.net (Rick King)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 09:07:04 -0400
Subject: Sanitising arguments to shell commands
In-Reply-To: <50697b2c0908210219i5e02c0cbq2d63bff891624ef4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <873a7l21gr.fsf@benfinney.id.au>		<87ab1tlekn.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
	<50697b2c0908210219i5e02c0cbq2d63bff891624ef4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A8E9BF8.8040206@comcast.net>

shlex doesn't handle unicode input though, so, in general, it's not a 
good solution.

Rick King
Southfield MI

> http://docs.python.org/library/shlex.html
>
> module shlex ? Simple lexical analysis
> New in version 1.5.2.
> "The shlex class makes it easy to write lexical analyzers for simple
> syntaxes resembling that of the Unix shell."
>   


From countryone77 at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 21 09:34:04 2009
From: countryone77 at yahoo.com (Bev in TX)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 06:34:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Logging with SMTP Error on Mac
Message-ID: 

Hi,

I've done some Python programming, but I still consider myself a
Python newbie.  I have a Mac Pro OS X 10.5.8 system and I installed
Python 2.6.2 (the latest package available for the Mac) yesterday.

I was working through Matt Wilson's article on using the logging
module:
http://blog.tplus1.com/index.php/2007/09/28/the-python-logging-module-is-much-better-than-print-statements/
(If that does not work, then try: http://tinyurl.com/5v2lcy )

Everything worked great until his last example.  My ISP does not
provide e-mail, so I tried using gmail in the line that sets h2.  I
substituted "mailid" for my actual e-mail address in the following
examples; in my test I used my actual e-mail ID.  Also, I used the
full path to the newly installed Python 2.6.2; otherwise it picked up
the older Python 2.5:
#!/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/bin/python

First attempt:
h2 = logging.handlers.SMTPHandler('smtp.gmail.com', 'mailid at gmail.com',
['mailid at gmail.com'],'ERROR log')
However, that caused the following error to be issued:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/
python2.6/logging/handlers.py", line 868, in emit
    smtp.sendmail(self.fromaddr, self.toaddrs, msg)
  File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/
python2.6/smtplib.py", line 698, in sendmail
    raise SMTPSenderRefused(code, resp, from_addr)
SMTPSenderRefused: (530, '5.7.0 Must issue a STARTTLS command first.
7sm3867994qwf.47', 'mailid at gmail.com')

I also tried providing my gmail userid/password, I tried adding a 5th,
credential, argument, which is a tupple, (username,password) (new in
2.6).

Second attempt:
h2 = logging.handlers.SMTPHandler('smtp.gmail.com', 'mailid at gmail.com',
['mailid at gmail.com'],'ERROR log',('mailid at gmail.com','gmail-
password'))
However, that caused the following error message:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/
python2.6/logging/handlers.py", line 867, in emit
    smtp.login(self.username, self.password)
  File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/
python2.6/smtplib.py", line 552, in login
    raise SMTPException("SMTP AUTH extension not supported by
server.")
SMTPException: SMTP AUTH extension not supported by server.

I am able access gmail via Mac's Mail, in which it says that outgoing
mail is going to:
      smtp.gmail.com:mailid
I tried using that as the server in the Python script, but it could
not find that server.

Is this possible?  If I am doing something incorrectly, would someone
please indicate what it is?

Thanks,
Bev in TX


From fabio at aptana.com  Fri Aug 21 09:36:34 2009
From: fabio at aptana.com (Fabio Zadrozny)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 10:36:34 -0300
Subject: Pydev 1.4.8 Released
Message-ID: 

Hi All,

Pydev and Pydev Extensions 1.4.8 have been released

Details on Pydev Extensions: http://www.fabioz.com/pydev
Details on Pydev: http://pydev.sf.net
Details on its development: http://pydev.blogspot.com

Release Highlights in Pydev Extensions:
-----------------------------------------------------------------

* Created public API for starting/finishing debug server
* Import based on unresolved variables works correctly when the
document is changed
* Ignore error works correctly when the document is changed
* No longer showing the replace button for the search


Release Highlights in Pydev:
----------------------------------------------

* Debugger can jump to line
* Reloading module when code changes in the editor if inside debug session
* Usability improvement on the preferences pages (editor,
code-formatter, comment block and code-style showing examples)
* Pythonpath reported in the main tab was not correct for ironpython
launch configs
* Main module tab in launch configuration was not appearing for jython
* Multiline block comments considering the current indentation (and
working with tabs)
* Hover works correctly when the document is changed
* The interactive console no longer uses the UI thread (so, it doesn't
make eclipse halt anymore on slow requests to the shell)
* The interactive console save history now saves the contents in the
same way they're written
* When creating a python run, the classpath was being set (and
overridden), which should only happen in jython runs
* Fixed issue where a line with only tabs and a close parenthesis
would have additional tabs entered on code-formatting
* A Pydev (Jython) project can coexist with a JDT project (and
properly use its info -- only project references worked previously)
* Many small usability improvements (editors improved)
* Verbosity option added to run as unit-test
* No longer using respectJavaAccessibility=False for jython
* When there are too many items to show in the debugger, handle it gracefully



What is PyDev?
---------------------------

PyDev is a plugin that enables users to use Eclipse for Python, Jython
and Iron Python development -- making Eclipse a first class Python IDE
-- It comes with many goodies such as code completion, syntax
highlighting, syntax analysis, refactor, debug and many others.


Cheers,

-- 
Fabio Zadrozny
------------------------------------------------------
Software Developer

Aptana
http://aptana.com/python

Pydev Extensions
http://www.fabioz.com/pydev

Pydev - Python Development Environment for Eclipse
http://pydev.sf.net
http://pydev.blogspot.com


From jfine at pytex.org  Fri Aug 21 09:36:35 2009
From: jfine at pytex.org (Jonathan Fine)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:36:35 +0100
Subject: Using 'apply' as a decorator, to define constants
Message-ID: 

Hi

It might seem odd to use 'apply' as a decorator, but it can make sense.

I want to write:
     # Top level in module.
     tags =  
where the list is most easily constructed using a function.

And so I write:
     @apply
     def tags():
         value = []
         # complicated code
         return value

And now 'tags' has the result of running the complicated code.


Without using 'apply' as a decorator one alternative is
     def tmp():
         value = []
         # complicated code
         return value
     tags = tmp()
     del tmp


Like all uses of decorators, it is simply syntactic sugar.  It allows 
you to see, up front, what is going to happen.  I think, once I get used 
to it, I'll get to like it.

The way to read
     @apply
     def name():
          # code
is that we are defining 'name' to be the return value of the effectively 
anonymous function that follows.

-- 
Jonathan


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Fri Aug 21 09:37:44 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 15:37:44 +0200
Subject: list 'results' from maps.google then crawl
In-Reply-To: <81b5a7ba-49c7-4750-ad1d-5564973b6b8c@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
References: <81b5a7ba-49c7-4750-ad1d-5564973b6b8c@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a8ea328$0$31861$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>

Justin wrote:
> list 'results' from maps.google then crawl through the (engine of some
> sort) space to the 'results' website and look at it html to find the
> contact

Good idea. How do you know how to recognise the contact? He/she might come
disguised.

Stefan


From sajmikins at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 10:23:30 2009
From: sajmikins at gmail.com (Simon Forman)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 07:23:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Object Reference question
References: <2dcf41c3-6623-48d9-bb74-97f753088479@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 21, 2:07?am, josef  wrote:
> To begin, I'm new with python. I've read a few discussions about
> object references and I think I understand them.
>
> To be clear, Python uses a "Pass By Object Reference" model.
> x = 1
> x becomes the object reference, while an object is created with the
> type 'int', value 1, and identifier (id(x)). Doing this with a class,
> x = myclass(), does the same thing, but with more or less object
> attributes. Every object has a type and an identifier (id()),
> according to the Python Language Reference for 2.6.2 section 3.1.
>
> x in both cases is the object reference. I would like to use the
> object to refer to the object reference. If I have a gross
> misunderstanding, please correct me.

x is not the object reference, it's just a string used as a key in a
dict (the value is the object reference):

|>>> globals()
|{'__builtins__': , '__name__':
'__main__', '__doc__': None}
|>>> x = 1
|>>> globals()
|{'__builtins__': , '__name__':
'__main__', '__doc__': None, 'x': 1}


I don't understand what you're trying to do, but give up the idea of
"object reference memory locations".  Any name binding in python just
associates a string with a object in one of various namespace
dictionaries.

HTH,
~Simon


From tsuraan at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 10:50:01 2009
From: tsuraan at gmail.com (tsuraan)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 09:50:01 -0500
Subject: Conditionally skipping the contents of a with-statement
Message-ID: <84fb38e30908210750v212339c2x2c87df33c2fcf069@mail.gmail.com>

I'd like to write a Fork class to wrap os.fork that allows something like this:

with Fork():
  # to child stuff, end of block will automatically os._exit()
# parent stuff goes here

This would require (I think) that the __enter__ method of my Fork
class to be able to return a value or raise an exception indicating
that the block should not be run.  It looks like, from PEP343, any
exception thrown in the __enter__ isn't handled by with, and my basic
tests confirm this.  I could have __enter__ raise a custom exception
and wrap the entire with statement in a try/except block, but that
sort of defeats the purpose of the with statement.  Is there a clean
way for the context manager to signal that the execution of the block
should be skipped altogether?


From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Aug 21 11:02:08 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 17:02:08 +0200
Subject: Conditionally skipping the contents of a with-statement
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7f7r7hF2i7ba6U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

tsuraan schrieb:
> I'd like to write a Fork class to wrap os.fork that allows something like this:
> 
> with Fork():
>   # to child stuff, end of block will automatically os._exit()
> # parent stuff goes here
> 
> This would require (I think) that the __enter__ method of my Fork
> class to be able to return a value or raise an exception indicating
> that the block should not be run.  It looks like, from PEP343, any
> exception thrown in the __enter__ isn't handled by with, and my basic
> tests confirm this.  I could have __enter__ raise a custom exception
> and wrap the entire with statement in a try/except block, but that
> sort of defeats the purpose of the with statement.  Is there a clean
> way for the context manager to signal that the execution of the block
> should be skipped altogether?

No. The only way would be something like this:

with Fork() as is_child:
     if is_child:
        ...



Diez


From mhecht2909 at instant-mail.de  Fri Aug 21 11:31:34 2009
From: mhecht2909 at instant-mail.de (M. Hecht)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 08:31:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Three-Phase-Diagrams with matplotlib
Message-ID: <25082083.post@talk.nabble.com>


Hello,

does anyone know whether it is possible to draw three-phase-diagrams with
matplotlib?

A three-phase-diagram is a triangular diagram applied in chemistry e.g. for
slags where
one has three main components of a chemical substance at the corners and
points or lines 
within the triangle marking different compositions of the substances in
percent, e.g.
in metallurgy 20% Al2O3, 45% CaO and 35% SiO2.


-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Three-Phase-Diagrams-with-matplotlib-tp25082083p25082083.html
Sent from the Python - python-list mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Aug 21 11:36:53 2009
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 17:36:53 +0200
Subject: pypi category
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A8EBF15.2090006@v.loewis.de>

> Would someone be able to inform me how a category can be added to the
> pypy list of categories?
> I'd like to add a CAD & Geometry category.
> ( I develop PythonOCC, wrappers for the OpenCASCADE CAD kernel, which
> is why )

Make a specific proposal to catalog-sig at lists.python.org, along with a
list of packages that are already on PyPI that could use that
classifier.

Having a classifier that classifies zero or one package is pointless.

Regards,
Martin


From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Aug 21 11:39:09 2009
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 17:39:09 +0200
Subject: 2.6 windows install
In-Reply-To: <1e18d400-03ec-48ae-b59d-72aa6f5d9f64@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<1e18d400-03ec-48ae-b59d-72aa6f5d9f64@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A8EBF9D.6020306@v.loewis.de>

> Did you install Python to the network device from your XP box? That
> would explain why you can run it: the required registry settings &
> environment variables are added by the installer, none of which is
> occurring on any computer other than the one from which you installed.

In principle, Python doesn't need any registry settings or environment
variables in order to run.

Regards,
Martin


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 12:09:02 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 09:09:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Using 'apply' as a decorator, to define constants
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 21, 11:36?pm, Jonathan Fine  wrote:
> It might seem odd to use 'apply' as a decorator, but it can make sense.

Yes, it's an idiom I've used myself for property declarations, but one
I find myself using less often:

class ColourThing(object):
    @apply
    def rgb():
        def fset(self, rgb):
            self.r, self.g, self.b = rgb
        def fget(self):
            return (self.r, self.g, self.b)
        return property(**locals())

Unfortunately, apply() has been removed as a built-in in 3.x. I'm not
sure if it has been relocated to a module somewhere, there's no
mention of such in the docs.

> Without using 'apply' as a decorator one alternative is
> ? ? ?def tmp():
> ? ? ? ? ?value = []
> ? ? ? ? ?# complicated code
> ? ? ? ? ?return value
> ? ? ?tags = tmp()
> ? ? ?del tmp

You can save yourself the tidy up by using the same name for the
function & the label:

    def tags():
        value = []
        # ...
        return value
    tags = tags()

> Like all uses of decorators, it is simply syntactic sugar. ?It allows
> you to see, up front, what is going to happen. ?I think, once I get used
> to it, I'll get to like it.

The question is, is it really that useful, or is it just a slight
aesthetic variation? Given that apply(f, args, kwargs) is identical to
f(*args, **kwargs), it's understandable that's apply() isn't seen as
worth keeping in the language.

Why I've personally stopped using it: I've always had the impression
that decorators were intended to provide a convenient and obvious way
of augmenting functions. Having one that automatically executes the
function at definition just runs counter to the behaviour I expect
from a decorator. Especially when direct assignment... foo = foo
() ...is a far more direct and clear way of expressing exactly what is
happening.

But that's all IMO, if you feel it makes your code cleaner and don't
plan on moving to 3.x any time soon (come on in! the water's great!),
go for it :)


From josefg at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 12:12:36 2009
From: josefg at gmail.com (josef)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 09:12:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Object Reference question
References: <2dcf41c3-6623-48d9-bb74-97f753088479@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<8763chldpd.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 21, 4:26?am, Ben Finney  wrote:
> josef  writes:
> > To be clear, Python uses a "Pass By Object Reference" model.
>
> Yes. (I'm glad this concept has propagated to newcomers so well :-)

I found one really good discussion on python semantics versus other
languages. It gave me this gem of a quote:

"When I turn on the TV and see Chuck Norris, though, I know it's only
a reference to Chuck Norris, or I would be blinded.  The only case he
needs is "Pass By Roundhouse Kick"." -Chuckk

>
> > x = 1
> > x becomes the object reference
>
> It becomes *a* reference to that object, independent of any other
> references to that same object.
>
> > while an object is created with the type 'int', value 1, and
> > identifier (id(x)).
>
> Not really ?while?. The object creation happens first, then the
> assignment statement binds a reference to that object.
>
> > Doing this with a class, x = myclass(), does the same thing, but with
> > more or less object attributes. Every object has a type and an
> > identifier (id()), according to the Python Language Reference for
> > 2.6.2 section 3.1.
>
> Any expression can be on the right side of the assignment operator. The
> expression will evaluate to some object, which the assignment will then
> bind to the reference on the left side of the assignment operator.
>
> > x in both cases is the object reference.
>
> It is *an* object reference; that is, it's an identifier which refers to
> an object. There's nothing about that identifier that makes it ?the (one
> and only) object reference?.
>
> > I would like to use the object to refer to the object reference. If I
> > have a gross misunderstanding, please correct me.
>
> Yes, it's a simple misunderstanding: objects do not, in general, know
> any of the references there may be to them.
>
> > The following is what I would like to do: I have a list of class
> > instances dk = [ a, b, c, d ], where a, b, c, d is an object
> > reference.
>
> Note that, after that list is created, each item in that list is *also*
> a reference to the corresponding object. That is, ?a? is a reference to
> an object, and ?dk[0]? is a *different* reference to the *same* object.
> The object has no knowledge about those references.

This is surprising. My initial thought is that dk[0] hold the object
reference 'a,' but that wouldn't be true "pass by object reference."
When defining the object reference dk[0], python takes the object
reference 'a,' finds the object MyClass0(), and then assigns the
object identity to dk[0]? Or something close to that.

>
> > Entering dk gives me the object: [MyClass0 instance at 0x0000,
> > MyClass1 instance at 0x0008, MyClass2 instance at 0x0010 ... ]
>
> This is a hint that, when asked for a string representation, each of the
> objects in that list can say little more than that they are of a
> particular type, and are located at a particular memory address. They do
> not know any of the references to themselves.
>
> > I need the object reference name (a,b,c,d) from dk to use as input for
> > a file.
>
> You'll have to track that yourself.

I'm a bit shocked that there isn't a method for catching object
reference names. I think that something like a = MyClass0(name =
'a', ...) is a bit redundant. Are definitions treated the same way?
How would one print or pass function names?

>
> A good way to keep track of name-to-object mappings is with Python's
> built-in mapping type, ?dict?::
>
> ? ? dk = {'a': a, 'b': b, 'c': c, 'd': d}
>
> (There are more efficient ways to create a dictionary without such
> repetition, of course, but this is more illustrative of the point.)
>
> You can then get a list (assembled in arbitrary sequence) of just the
> keys, or just the values, or the key-value pairs, from the dict with its
> ?keys?, ?values?, and ?items? methods respectively::
>
> ? ? >>> dk = {'a': a, 'b': b, 'c': c, 'd': d}
> ? ? >>> dk.keys()
> ? ? ['a', 'c', 'd', 'b']
> ? ? >>> dk.values()
> ? ? [, , , ]
> ? ? >>> dk.items()
> ? ? [('b', ), ('c', ), ('a', ?), ('d', ?)]
>
> Each of these is even better used as the iterable for a ?for? loop::
>
> ? ? >>> for (key, value) in dk.items():
> ? ? ... ? ? print "Here is item named", key
> ? ? ... ? ? print value

I think I'll just add a 'name' to the classes' init defintion.

>
> > My main focus of this post is: "How do I find and use object reference
> > memory locations?"
>
> You don't. Use the references in your code, forget about the memory
> addresses, and remember that container objects themselves contain
> references, so use them for organising your objects.
>
> --
> ?\ ? ? ?Demagogue: One who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to |
> ? `\ ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? men he knows to be idiots.? ?Henry L. Mencken |
> _o__) ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?|
> Ben Finney

Thanks,

Josef


From jamie.ivanov at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 12:33:57 2009
From: jamie.ivanov at gmail.com (Jamie)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 09:33:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Problem with winreg - The object is not a PyHKEY object
Message-ID: 

My goal is to remotely remove the registry keys for McAfee. I don't
know how winreg handles an exception if a key doesn't exist, but I
setup my script to skip the exception. But it doesn't seem to work
right.. I think the script should be self explanitory, please help!
Please forgive me, but I'm a python newbie.

## SCRIPT ##

import _winreg

print "Removing McAfee registry entries"
hkey = _winreg.ConnectRegistry(r'\
\000000439140PC',_winreg.HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE)
try:
_winreg.DeleteKey('SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Enum
\Root','LEGACY_MFEAPFK')
except:
pass

#try:
_winreg.DeleteKey('\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Enum
\Root','LEGACY_MFEAVFK')
#except:
# pass

try:
_winreg.DeleteKey('\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Enum
\Root','LEGACY_MFEBOPK')
except:
pass

try:
_winreg.DeleteKey('\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Enum
\Root','LEGACY_MFEHIDK')
except:
pass

try:
_winreg.DeleteKey('\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Enum
\Root','LEGACY_MFEHIDK01')
except:
pass

try:
_winreg.DeleteKey('\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Enum
\Root','LEGACY_MFERKDK')
except:
pass

try:
_winreg.DeleteKey('\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Enum
\Root','LEGACY_MFETDIK')
except:
pass

try:
_winreg.DeleteKey('\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Enum
\Root','LEGACY_NAIAVFILTER1')
except:
pass

try:
_winreg.DeleteKey('\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Enum
\Root','LEGACY_NAIAVFILTER101')
except:
pass

try:
_winreg.DeleteKey('\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Enum
\Root','LEGACY_MCSHIELD')
except:
pass

try:
_winreg.DeleteKey('\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Enum
\Root','MCTASKMANAGER')
except:
pass

try:
_winreg.DeleteKey('\SOFTWARE','McAfee')
except:
pass

try:
_winreg.DeleteKey('\SOFTWARE','Network Associates')
except:
pass

try:
_winreg.DeleteKey('\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services','AlertManager')
except:
pass

try:
_winreg.DeleteKey('\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet
\Services','McAfeeFramework')
except:
pass

try:
_winreg.DeleteKey('\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services','McShield')
except:
pass

try:
_winreg.DeleteKey('\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet
\Services','McTaskManager')
except:
pass

try:
_winreg.DeleteKey('\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services','mfeapfk')
except:
pass

try:
_winreg.DeleteKey('\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services','mfeavfk')
except:
pass

try:
_winreg.DeleteKey('\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services','mfebopk')
except:
pass

try:
_winreg.DeleteKey('\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services','mfehidk')
except:
pass

try:
_winreg.DeleteKey('\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services','mfehidk01')
except:
pass

try:
_winreg.DeleteKey('\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services','mferkdk')
except:
pass

try:
_winreg.DeleteKey('\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services','mfetdik')
except:
pass

try:
_winreg.DeleteKey('\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services','NaiAvFilter1')
except:
pass

try:
_winreg.DeleteKey('\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet
\Services','NaiAvFilter101')
except:
pass

## END SCRIPT ##

## OUTPUT ##
Removing McAfee registry entries
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "uninstallMcafee.py", line 11, in 
_winreg.DeleteKey('\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Enum
\Root','LEGACY_MFEAVFK')
TypeError: The object is not a PyHKEY object
## END OUTPUT ##


From 71david at libero.it  Fri Aug 21 12:35:07 2009
From: 71david at libero.it (David)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 18:35:07 +0200
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: <2h2hwo918umw.1ihpdwjimzge8$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<7f5pohF2k259vU1@mid.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <12e1y7snryy06$.1r84z897tmw7u$.dlg@40tude.net>

Il Thu, 20 Aug 2009 22:24:24 +0200, Johannes Bauer ha scritto:

> David schrieb:
> 
>> If I want an octal I'll use oct()! 
>> 
>> "Explicit is better than implicit..."
> 
> A leading "0" *is* explicit.

It isn't explicit enough, at least IMO.


regards
David


From 71david at libero.it  Fri Aug 21 12:40:55 2009
From: 71david at libero.it (David)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 18:40:55 +0200
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: <2h2hwo918umw.1ihpdwjimzge8$.dlg@40tude.net>
	
Message-ID: <14hj3v50qg77e$.1pk6i6w7h7q6s.dlg@40tude.net>

Il Thu, 20 Aug 2009 15:18:35 -0700 (PDT), Mensanator ha scritto:

> (Just kidding! That works in 2.5 also. How are you using it where
> it's coming out wrong? I can see you pulling '012' out of a text
> file and want to calculate with it, but how would you use a
> string without using int()? Passing it to functions that allow
> string representations of numbers?)

Obviously it's not a progamming issue, just a hassle using the interpreter
on command line.

David


From Kevin.Smith at sixquickrun.com  Fri Aug 21 12:43:31 2009
From: Kevin.Smith at sixquickrun.com (Kevin D. Smith)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 11:43:31 -0500
Subject: 2.6 windows install
References:  <4A8EBF9D.6020306@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-21 10:39:09 -0500, "Martin v. L?wis"  said:

>> Did you install Python to the network device from your XP box? That
>> would explain why you can run it: the required registry settings &
>> environment variables are added by the installer, none of which is
>> occurring on any computer other than the one from which you installed.
> 
> In principle, Python doesn't need any registry settings or environment
> variables in order to run.

That may be true, but it doesn't explain why python won't run.  I'm 
guessing that it has something to do with the msvc*90.dll files not 
getting installed.  If those dlls haven't been previously installed, 
they won't be on the client machine in order for python to use them.  
However, I haven't had any luck installing these files manually and 
getting python to work that way.

-- 
Kevin D. Smith



From 71david at libero.it  Fri Aug 21 12:46:09 2009
From: 71david at libero.it (David)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 18:46:09 +0200
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: <2h2hwo918umw.1ihpdwjimzge8$.dlg@40tude.net>
	
Message-ID: <1bzp9xkx7u4a4$.hp3xb39tz5vv.dlg@40tude.net>

Il Thu, 20 Aug 2009 16:59:14 -0700 (PDT), James Harris ha scritto:

> 
> It maybe made sense once but this relic of the past should have been
> consigned to the waste bin of history long ago.

I perfectly agree with you!

David.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Aug 21 12:58:25 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 17:58:25 +0100
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: <12e1y7snryy06$.1r84z897tmw7u$.dlg@40tude.net>
References: <2h2hwo918umw.1ihpdwjimzge8$.dlg@40tude.net>	<7f5pohF2k259vU1@mid.dfncis.de>
	<12e1y7snryy06$.1r84z897tmw7u$.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <4A8ED231.3010409@mrabarnett.plus.com>

David wrote:
> Il Thu, 20 Aug 2009 22:24:24 +0200, Johannes Bauer ha scritto:
> 
>> David schrieb:
>>
>>> If I want an octal I'll use oct()! 
>>>
>>> "Explicit is better than implicit..."
>> A leading "0" *is* explicit.
> 
> It isn't explicit enough, at least IMO.
> 
Is this better?

Python 3.1 (r31:73574, Jun 26 2009, 20:21:35) [MSC v.1500 32 bit 
(Intel)] on win
32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> 010
   File "", line 1
     010
       ^

I would've preferred it to be decimal unless there's a prefix:

Python 3.1 (r31:73574, Jun 26 2009, 20:21:35) [MSC v.1500 32 bit 
(Intel)] on win
32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> 0x10
16
 >>> 0o10
8

Ah well, something for Python 4. :-)


From michele.petrazz at REMOTEME_unipex.it  Fri Aug 21 13:14:07 2009
From: michele.petrazz at REMOTEME_unipex.it (Michele Petrazzo)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 19:14:07 +0200
Subject: PIL and Python
In-Reply-To: <5df342cf-c742-42d6-bc8c-97a3c44a0816@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<9683190f-3c99-49d6-93d1-d8966d38d7a6@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<5df342cf-c742-42d6-bc8c-97a3c44a0816@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

catafest wrote:
> I don't extract data from jpegs. I wanna put some data in this
> (copyright of my site) ...
> 

My wrap for freeimage, called freeimagepy :) can't, as now, wrote exif
information on the image, but since freeimage can do it, I think that
it's not so difficult to add this type of feature.
If you have some time for investigate and create a patch, I'll be happy
to include it into the mainline!

Contact me directly if you want to talk of need some help on how do it.

Michele


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 13:22:04 2009
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 10:22:04 -0700
Subject: Problem with winreg - The object is not a PyHKEY object
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7a9c25c20908211022l751a2df8r5476887515272f1f@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 9:33 AM, Jamie  wrote:

> My goal is to remotely remove the registry keys for McAfee. I don't
> know how winreg handles an exception if a key doesn't exist, but I
> setup my script to skip the exception. But it doesn't seem to work
> right.. I think the script should be self explanitory, please help!
> Please forgive me, but I'm a python newbie.
>
> ## SCRIPT ##
>
> import _winreg
>
> print "Removing McAfee registry entries"
> hkey = _winreg.ConnectRegistry(r'\
> \000000439140PC',_winreg.HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE)
> try:
> _winreg.DeleteKey('SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Enum\Root','LEGACY_MFEAPFK')
> except:
> pass
>

You have to "open" the key first-- the first argument to .DeleteKey is not a
string.

E.g., do:

key = _winreg.OpenKey(_winreg.HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE,
r'SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Enum\Root')
_winreg.DeleteKey(key, 'LEGACY_MFEAPFK'
_winreg.CloseKey(key)

The above is an example off the top of my head, not actually tested-- But
that's sorta your problem, I believe: .DeleteKey operates on a key /handle/
in its first argument, not a string. The second argument is a string.

HTH,

--S
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From ryniek90 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 13:33:29 2009
From: ryniek90 at gmail.com (ryniek90)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 19:33:29 +0200
Subject: TypeError while checking for permissions with os.access() on windows
	xp
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A8EDA69.6030103@gmail.com>

I've got some code that checks priviliges on two paths:
First - chosen by user
Second - hardcoded home directory represented by **os.getenv('HOME')** - 
(os.getenv('HOME') works both on Linux and Windows)

Here's the code:
"
def __check_set_perm(self, rd_obj_path, backup_dest):

        try:

            if os.path.exists(rd_obj_path):
                if os.access(rd_obj_path, os.R_OK) != True:
                    print "Have no permissions on [%s] for reading 
operation.\nTrying to set them..." % os.path.split(rd_obj_path)[1]
                    if not os.path.isdir(rd_obj_path):
                        os.chmod(rd_obj_path, stat.S_IREAD)
                    else:
                        for root, dirs, files in os.walk(rd_obj_path):
                            for f in files:
                                os.chmod(os.path.join(root, f), 
stat.S_IREAD)
                    print "Get permissions for reading on [%s] 
successfully." % os.path.split(rd_obj_path)[1]
                else:
                    print "Have permissions on [%s] for reading." % 
os.path.split(rd_obj_path)[1]

                if os.access(backup_dest, os.W_OK) != True:
                    print "Have no permissions on [%s] for writing 
operation.\nTrying to set them..." % os.path.split(backup_dest)[1]
                    os.chmod(backup_dest, stat.S_IWRITE)
                    print "Get permissions for reading on [%s] 
successfully." % os.path.split(backup_dest)[1]
                else:
                    print "Have permissions on [%s] for writing." % 
os.path.split(backup_dest)[1]
            else:
                return "Can't find specified path - [%s]." % rd_obj_path
                sys.exit(0)

        except (Except), ex:
            return ex
"


This code is part of my backup script. When script checks for reading 
permission on 'user chosen path' it seems ok, but when it checks for 
writing permissions on 'home directory', (this line: **if 
os.access(backup_dest, os.W_OK) != True**), i get error:
**TypeError: coercing to Unicode: need string or buffer, NoneType found**
The second os.access check fails, but don't know why. When i turned 
os.W_OK to integer, i get the same error.
But when changed os.W_OK or that int to string, i get error that integer 
is required. I'm launching this code on WinXP Prof+SP3, on Administrator 
account. Is it bug in os.acces() or my code is written wrong?
Btw. i kow that os.chmod in windows can set only read-olny flag, so 
later i'll change the line with **os.chmod(path, stat.S_IWRITE)**

Thanks and cheers.


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Fri Aug 21 13:36:00 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 19:36:00 +0200
Subject: Python and PHP encryption/decryption
References: 
	<7f36e3F2it5a5U2@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: 

>>>>> "Diez B. Roggisch"  (DBR) wrote:

>DBR> Jean-Claude Neveu schrieb:
>>> I'm looking for a recommendation about encryption/decryption packages for
>>> Python.
>>> 
>>> I'm working on a project that will require me to store some values in a
>>> database in encrypted format. I'll be storing them from a PHP script and
>>> retrieving them (decrypting them) using Python. I'm currently using PHP's
>>> mcrypt package to encrypt the values, and I'm using AES for encryption,
>>> so something AES-compatible would be ideal. However, the project is at
>>> the development stage so I can easily change how I'm encrypting things in
>>> PHP if there is a compelling reason on the Python side of things to do
>>> so.

>DBR> With PyCrypto[1] you have a wide range of choices, amongst others AES.

>DBR> If that's the best algorithm, or even the best python-package to implement
>DBR> it, I don't know.


>DBR> [1] http://www.dlitz.net/software/pycrypto/

Pycrypto had been stalled in development. The latest release was in
2005. There is now a new developer and that it were the link above goes,
but he has not yet released anything. so you will have to do with the
2005 release.

There is an alternative library: m2crypto
(http://chandlerproject.org/Projects/MeTooCrypto). It is built on top of
OpenSSL which is available for most platforms that have Python whereas
Pycrypto has its own C implementations of crypto algorithms. M2crypto
has a recent release. Also I think because OpenSSL is widely used, its
vulnerabilities are easier detected and corrected, whereas I don't think
that is the case for Pycrypto.

M2crypto is much bigger than you need for this project, however. If that
doesn't bother you I would recommend it.

-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From mensanator at aol.com  Fri Aug 21 13:36:35 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 10:36:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: <2h2hwo918umw.1ihpdwjimzge8$.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	<14hj3v50qg77e$.1pk6i6w7h7q6s.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 21, 11:40?am, David <71da... at libero.it> wrote:
> Il Thu, 20 Aug 2009 15:18:35 -0700 (PDT), Mensanator ha scritto:
>
> > (Just kidding! That works in 2.5 also. How are you using it where
> > it's coming out wrong? I can see you pulling '012' out of a text
> > file and want to calculate with it, but how would you use a
> > string without using int()? Passing it to functions that allow
> > string representations of numbers?)
>
> Obviously it's not a progamming issue, just a hassle using the interpreter
> on command line.

Aha! Then I WAS right after all. Switch to 3.1 and you'll
soon be cured of that bad habit:

>>> 012 + 012
SyntaxError: invalid token (, line 1)


>
> David



From nagle at animats.com  Fri Aug 21 13:45:51 2009
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 10:45:51 -0700
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: <6a523329-3287-4271-ba37-7be450cfc5f6@d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <2h2hwo918umw.1ihpdwjimzge8$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<6a523329-3287-4271-ba37-7be450cfc5f6@d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a8edc29$0$1599$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

Simon Forman wrote:
> On Aug 20, 3:06 pm, David <71da... at libero.it> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Is there some magic to make the 2.x CPython interpreter to ignore the
>> annoying octal notation?
> 
> No.  You would have to modify and recompile the interpreter. This is
> not exactly trivial, see "How to Change Python's Grammar"
> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0306/
> 
> However, see "Integer Literal Support and Syntax" http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3127/
> 
> (Basically in 2.6 and onwards you can use 0oNNN notation.)

     Yes, and making lead zeros an error as suggested in PEP 3127 is a good idea.
It will be interesting to see what bugs that flushes out.

     In 2009, Unisys finally exited the mainframe hardware business, and the
last of the 36-bit machines, the ClearPath servers, are being phased out.
That line of machines goes back to the UNIVAC 2200 series, and the UNIVAC
1100 series, all the way back to the vacuum-tube UNIVAC 1103 from 1952.
It's the longest running series of computers in history, and code for all
those machines used octal heavily.

     And it's over.  We can finally dispense with octal by default.

					John Nagle


From dickinsm at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 13:49:20 2009
From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 10:49:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python on Crays
References: 
Message-ID: <1f5c81d8-4f79-4eea-b1bd-af48ab9ddc82@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 21, 12:21?am, Carrie Farberow  wrote:
> I am trying to build a statically-linked Python based on directions at:
>
> http://yt.enzotools.org/wiki/CrayXT5Installation
>
> I have tried this on multiple systems. ?The first time I attempt to build python, 'make' runs fine but 'make install' fails with the following error:
>
> Sorry: UnicodeError: ("\\N escapes not supported (can't load unicodedata module)",)
>
> Any help regarding the source of this error and possible fixes would be appreciated.

Hmm.  There's not a lot of information to go on here.
What version of Python is this? Python 2.6.2?
Have you tried Googling for that exact error message?

The following issue looks as though it might be relevant:

http://bugs.python.org/issue1594809

especially since it looks as though the directions you linked
to involve messing with the PYTHONPATH environment variable.

If you could post a log somewhere[*] showing the exact commands
that you executed, along with all the output (and especially
all the output from 'make' and 'make install'), that might help
someone diagnose the problem further.

Mark

[*] I'm not sure where, though.  Posting all that output directly
in a newsgroup message might not be considered very friendly.


From sajmikins at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 13:54:13 2009
From: sajmikins at gmail.com (Simon Forman)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 10:54:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Object Reference question
References: <2dcf41c3-6623-48d9-bb74-97f753088479@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<8763chldpd.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 21, 12:12?pm, josef  wrote:
> > > I need the object reference name (a,b,c,d) from dk to use as input for
> > > a file.
>
> > You'll have to track that yourself.
>
> I'm a bit shocked that there isn't a method for catching object
> reference names. I think that something like a = MyClass0(name =
> 'a', ...) is a bit redundant. Are definitions treated the same way?
> How would one print or pass function names?

There's no such thing as "object reference names".  Object references
do not have names.

When you run a piece of code like "a = object()" a string "a" is used
as a key in a dictionary and the value is the "object reference".

Consider:

[None][0] = object()

(Create an anonymous list object with one item in it and immediately
replace that item with an anonymous object instance.)

There's no name to catch.

Objects know nothing about their "enclosing" namespace. So if you want
them to have names you have to explicitly give them name attributes.
(However, this won't affect their enclosing namespaces.)

As Bruno said, think of "foo = something" as shorthand for
"some_namespace_dictionary['foo'] = something".


The two exceptions to this are 'def' and 'class' statements which both
create name->object (key, value) pairs in their current namespace AND
give the objects they create '__name__' attributes (pretty much just
as an aid to debugging.)

In [1]: def foo(): pass
   ...:

In [2]: foo.__name__
Out[2]: 'foo'

In [3]: class foo(): pass
   ...:

In [4]: foo.__name__
Out[4]: 'foo'


> > A good way to keep track of name-to-object mappings is with Python's
> > built-in mapping type, ?dict?::
>
> > ? ? dk = {'a': a, 'b': b, 'c': c, 'd': d}
>
> > (There are more efficient ways to create a dictionary without such
> > repetition, of course, but this is more illustrative of the point.)
>
> > You can then get a list (assembled in arbitrary sequence) of just the
> > keys, or just the values, or the key-value pairs, from the dict with its
> > ?keys?, ?values?, and ?items? methods respectively::
>
> > ? ? >>> dk = {'a': a, 'b': b, 'c': c, 'd': d}
> > ? ? >>> dk.keys()
> > ? ? ['a', 'c', 'd', 'b']
> > ? ? >>> dk.values()
> > ? ? [, , , ]
> > ? ? >>> dk.items()
> > ? ? [('b', ), ('c', ), ('a', ?), ('d', ?)]
>
> > Each of these is even better used as the iterable for a ?for? loop::
>
> > ? ? >>> for (key, value) in dk.items():
> > ? ? ... ? ? print "Here is item named", key
> > ? ? ... ? ? print value
>
> I think I'll just add a 'name' to the classes' init defintion.

That's the way to do it. :]



From ronn.ross at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 14:14:32 2009
From: ronn.ross at gmail.com (Ronn Ross)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:14:32 -0400
Subject: convert date time
Message-ID: <9c8c445f0908211114x52989399m9dff884ccdd43ad0@mail.gmail.com>

I'm new to python and I'm getting a date time from a field in the database
that looks like this:
8/2/2009 8:36:16 AM (UTC)

I want to split it into two fields one with the date formatted like this:
YYYY-MM-DD  2009-08-02

and the time to be 24 hour or military time. How every you call it. Similar
to this:
15:22:00

I found it easy to truncate off the (UTC), but having trouble converting the
date. Can someone point me in the right direction?
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From sajmikins at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 14:20:53 2009
From: sajmikins at gmail.com (Simon Forman)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 11:20:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: TypeError while checking for permissions with os.access() on 
	windows xp
References:  
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 21, 1:33?pm, ryniek90  wrote:
> I've got some code that checks priviliges on two paths:
> First - chosen by user
> Second - hardcoded home directory represented by **os.getenv('HOME')** -
> (os.getenv('HOME') works both on Linux and Windows)
>
> Here's the code:
> "
> def __check_set_perm(self, rd_obj_path, backup_dest):
>
> ? ? ? ? try:
>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? if os.path.exists(rd_obj_path):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? if os.access(rd_obj_path, os.R_OK) != True:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print "Have no permissions on [%s] for reading
> operation.\nTrying to set them..." % os.path.split(rd_obj_path)[1]
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? if not os.path.isdir(rd_obj_path):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? os.chmod(rd_obj_path, stat.S_IREAD)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? else:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? for root, dirs, files in os.walk(rd_obj_path):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? for f in files:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? os.chmod(os.path.join(root, f),
> stat.S_IREAD)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print "Get permissions for reading on [%s]
> successfully." % os.path.split(rd_obj_path)[1]
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? else:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print "Have permissions on [%s] for reading." %
> os.path.split(rd_obj_path)[1]
>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? if os.access(backup_dest, os.W_OK) != True:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print "Have no permissions on [%s] for writing
> operation.\nTrying to set them..." % os.path.split(backup_dest)[1]
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? os.chmod(backup_dest, stat.S_IWRITE)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print "Get permissions for reading on [%s]
> successfully." % os.path.split(backup_dest)[1]
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? else:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print "Have permissions on [%s] for writing." %
> os.path.split(backup_dest)[1]
> ? ? ? ? ? ? else:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? return "Can't find specified path - [%s]." % rd_obj_path
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? sys.exit(0)
>
> ? ? ? ? except (Except), ex:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? return ex
> "
>
> This code is part of my backup script. When script checks for reading
> permission on 'user chosen path' it seems ok, but when it checks for
> writing permissions on 'home directory', (this line: **if
> os.access(backup_dest, os.W_OK) != True**), i get error:
> **TypeError: coercing to Unicode: need string or buffer, NoneType found**
> The second os.access check fails, but don't know why. When i turned
> os.W_OK to integer, i get the same error.
> But when changed os.W_OK or that int to string, i get error that integer
> is required. I'm launching this code on WinXP Prof+SP3, on Administrator
> account. Is it bug in os.acces() or my code is written wrong?
> Btw. i kow that os.chmod in windows can set only read-olny flag, so
> later i'll change the line with **os.chmod(path, stat.S_IWRITE)**
>
> Thanks and cheers.

First, some nitpicking: Include the whole traceback when posting about
errors please.  Don't write "if some_boolean_expression != True:"
instead prefer "if not some_boolean_expression:".  Also, in your code
"except (Except), ex: return ex" the parentheses are redundant,
there's no "Except" Exception (unless you created one yourself) and
why are you catching and returning the Exception object?  (Also,
what's that "sys.exit(0)" doing in there? And why exit with 0 if there
was a problem? Exit code 0 means "no problem".)


Second, from what you've said backup_dest must be None:

>>> import os
>>> os.access(None, os.W_OK)

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
    os.access(None, os.W_OK)
TypeError: coercing to Unicode: need string or buffer, NoneType found



From darcy at druid.net  Fri Aug 21 14:26:38 2009
From: darcy at druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:26:38 -0400
Subject: convert date time
In-Reply-To: <9c8c445f0908211114x52989399m9dff884ccdd43ad0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9c8c445f0908211114x52989399m9dff884ccdd43ad0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090821142638.92d91382.darcy@druid.net>

On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:14:32 -0400
Ronn Ross  wrote:
> I want to split it into two fields one with the date formatted like this:
> YYYY-MM-DD  2009-08-02
> 
> and the time to be 24 hour or military time. How every you call it. Similar
> to this:
> 15:22:00
> 
> I found it easy to truncate off the (UTC), but having trouble converting the
> date. Can someone point me in the right direction?

You don't say what database you are using but you may find it simpler
to do the conversion in your SELECT statement.  For example, see
http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.3/static/functions-formatting.html for
PostgreSQL formatting functions.

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain          |  Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
+1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.


From tommy.nordgren at comhem.se  Fri Aug 21 14:29:08 2009
From: tommy.nordgren at comhem.se (Tommy Nordgren)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 20:29:08 +0200
Subject: Mac OS 9.2
In-Reply-To: <96ab6db4-55c5-4142-8ef8-d7fbe97e4c4d@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <96ab6db4-55c5-4142-8ef8-d7fbe97e4c4d@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8683E1B6-367C-4A05-B6FA-667F0D4FC7DF@comhem.se>


On Aug 18, 2009, at 6:04 PM, madzientist wrote:

> hi,
>
> i have to work with mac OS 9.2 for legacy reasons...is there a
> compiled version of python for this os ? i need to get input about
> variable values from the user and then print out some text files that
> make use of this input. a gui would be nice, but keyboard based input
> would be ok too...
>
> thanks much,
>
> suresh
>
> ps. if there isn't a version of pythn that will work, perhaps you
> could suggest some other scripting language for 0S 9.2 ?
> --  
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
	There was a port (MacPython) of versions 2.3 and 2.3 that worked on  
MacOS 9
Maybe Google will help you locate a copy.
------
What is a woman that you forsake her, and the hearth fire and the home  
acre,
to go with the old grey Widow Maker.  --Kipling, harp song of the Dane  
women
Tommy Nordgren
tommy.nordgren at comhem.se





From dullrich at sprynet.com  Fri Aug 21 14:36:02 2009
From: dullrich at sprynet.com (David C Ullrich)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 13:36:02 -0500
Subject: Silly question
References: 
	
	
	<97ae0d22-7eaa-4ad6-8603-69699703d508@u16g2000pru.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 17:45:11 -0700, John Machin wrote:

> On Aug 21, 5:33?am, David C Ullrich  wrote:
> 
>> So I'm slow, fine. (There were several times when I was using 1.5.3 and
>> wished they were there - transposing matrices, etc.)
> 
> 1.5.THREE ??

Not sure. 1.SOMETHING. Sorry about the CONFUSION...


From ronn.ross at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 14:43:55 2009
From: ronn.ross at gmail.com (Ronn Ross)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:43:55 -0400
Subject: convert date time
In-Reply-To: <20090821142638.92d91382.darcy@druid.net>
References: <9c8c445f0908211114x52989399m9dff884ccdd43ad0@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090821142638.92d91382.darcy@druid.net>
Message-ID: <9c8c445f0908211143g38382e7aocbee20155e525573@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 2:26 PM, D'Arcy J.M. Cain  wrote:

> On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:14:32 -0400
> Ronn Ross  wrote:
> > I want to split it into two fields one with the date formatted like this:
> > YYYY-MM-DD  2009-08-02
> >
> > and the time to be 24 hour or military time. How every you call it.
> Similar
> > to this:
> > 15:22:00
> >
> > I found it easy to truncate off the (UTC), but having trouble converting
> the
> > date. Can someone point me in the right direction?
>
> You don't say what database you are using but you may find it simpler
> to do the conversion in your SELECT statement.  For example, see
> http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.3/static/functions-formatting.html for
> PostgreSQL formatting functions.
>
> --
> D'Arcy J.M. Cain          |  Democracy is three wolves
> http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
> +1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.
>
I apologize I should have made it clear that this date is stored in the db
as a string/varchar. The reason it is stored that way is before it's being
read in from a text file where it is formatted that way.
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From jfine at pytex.org  Fri Aug 21 15:23:51 2009
From: jfine at pytex.org (Jonathan Fine)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 20:23:51 +0100
Subject: Using 'apply' as a decorator, to define constants
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <_L2dne59TJ3baRPXnZ2dnUVZ8gCdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>

alex23 wrote:

> Unfortunately, apply() has been removed as a built-in in 3.x. I'm not
> sure if it has been relocated to a module somewhere, there's no
> mention of such in the docs.

The old use of apply()

> You can save yourself the tidy up by using the same name for the
> function & the label:
> 
>     def tags():
>         value = []
>         # ...
>         return value
>     tags = tags()

I don't like that because there's no hint at
     def tags():
that this is /not/ the value of tags.

>> Like all uses of decorators, it is simply syntactic sugar.  It allows
>> you to see, up front, what is going to happen.  I think, once I get used
>> to it, I'll get to like it.
> 
> The question is, is it really that useful, or is it just a slight
> aesthetic variation? Given that apply(f, args, kwargs) is identical to
> f(*args, **kwargs), it's understandable that's apply() isn't seen as
> worth keeping in the language.

Yes, I agree with that, completely.

> Why I've personally stopped using it: I've always had the impression
> that decorators were intended to provide a convenient and obvious way
> of augmenting functions. 

Yes, that was the intended use case.

> Having one that automatically executes the
> function at definition just runs counter to the behaviour I expect
> from a decorator. 

I'd expect the name of the decorator to explain what is going on.  If 
apply() were a well known part of the language, that would be fine.

> Especially when direct assignment... foo = foo
> () ...is a far more direct and clear way of expressing exactly what is
> happening.

Actually, I think the decorator approach is clearer.  But that's just my 
opinion, and not with the benefit of a lot of experience.

> But that's all IMO, if you feel it makes your code cleaner and don't
> plan on moving to 3.x any time soon (come on in! the water's great!),
> go for it :)

Thank you for your comments, Alex.  And particularly for telling me that 
apply() is no longer a builtin for Python 3.

-- 
Jonathan


From dullrich at sprynet.com  Fri Aug 21 15:40:30 2009
From: dullrich at sprynet.com (David C Ullrich)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:40:30 -0500
Subject: Silly question
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 16:51:00 -0700, Aahz wrote:

> In article ,
> Benjamin Kaplan   wrote:
>>On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 2:13 PM, David C Ullrich
>>wrot= e:
>>>
>>> I just noticed that
>>> sequence[i:j:k]
>>
>>Well, I got some good news and some bad news. According to the docs, it
>>existed in 1.4 but the built-in sequences didn't support it until 2.3.
>>It's not used that often anyway so you haven't been missing much.
> 
> Except that it's canonical for one specific operation:
> 
> 'reverseme'[::-1]

It's like you guys are a bunch of programmers or something:

from math import sqrt

def Primes(n):
  """Return a list of the primes < n"""
  sieve = range(n)
  for k in range(2,int(sqrt(n))+2):
    sieve[::k] = [1]*((n+k-1)/k)
  return [p for p in sieve if p > 1]






From darcy at druid.net  Fri Aug 21 15:42:27 2009
From: darcy at druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 15:42:27 -0400
Subject: convert date time
In-Reply-To: <9c8c445f0908211143g38382e7aocbee20155e525573@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9c8c445f0908211114x52989399m9dff884ccdd43ad0@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090821142638.92d91382.darcy@druid.net>
	<9c8c445f0908211143g38382e7aocbee20155e525573@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090821154227.b9fe0bdd.darcy@druid.net>

On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:43:55 -0400
Ronn Ross  wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 2:26 PM, D'Arcy J.M. Cain  wrote:
> > You don't say what database you are using but you may find it simpler
> > to do the conversion in your SELECT statement.  For example, see
> > http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.3/static/functions-formatting.html for
> > PostgreSQL formatting functions.
> >
> I apologize I should have made it clear that this date is stored in the db
> as a string/varchar. The reason it is stored that way is before it's being
> read in from a text file where it is formatted that way.

You can still save it as a timestamp:

SELECT '8/2/2009 8:36:16 AM (UTC)'::timestamp(0);
      timestamp      
---------------------
 2009-08-02 08:36:16
(1 row)

Your input format is read into PostgreSQL time types directly.  Same
may be true of other databases.

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain          |  Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
+1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.


From dullrich at sprynet.com  Fri Aug 21 15:45:55 2009
From: dullrich at sprynet.com (David C Ullrich)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:45:55 -0500
Subject: Silly question
References: 
	
	 
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:40:30 -0500, David C Ullrich wrote:

> On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 16:51:00 -0700, Aahz wrote:
> 
>> In article ,
>> Benjamin Kaplan   wrote:
>>>On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 2:13 PM, David C Ullrich
>>>wrot= e:
>>>>
>>>> I just noticed that
>>>> sequence[i:j:k]
>>>
>>>Well, I got some good news and some bad news. According to the docs, it
>>>existed in 1.4 but the built-in sequences didn't support it until 2.3.
>>>It's not used that often anyway so you haven't been missing much.
>> 
>> Except that it's canonical for one specific operation:
>> 
>> 'reverseme'[::-1]
> 
> It's like you guys are a bunch of programmers or something:
> 
> from math import sqrt
> 
> def Primes(n):
>   """Return a list of the primes < n""" sieve = range(n)
>   for k in range(2,int(sqrt(n))+2):
>     sieve[::k] = [1]*((n+k-1)/k)
>   return [p for p in sieve if p > 1]

Oops. Should have tested that a little more carefully
before posting. No time to fix it right now, customer just
got here. Let's just say we're looking for the primes
between sqrt(n) and n...





From code at pizzashack.org  Fri Aug 21 15:48:57 2009
From: code at pizzashack.org (Derek Martin)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:48:57 -0500
Subject: Annoying octal notation
Message-ID: <20090821194857.GU20434@dragontoe.org>

John Nagle wrote:
> Yes, and making lead zeros an error as suggested in PEP 3127 is a
> good idea.  It will be interesting to see what bugs that flushes
> out.

James Harris wrote:
> It maybe made sense once but this relic of the past should have been
> consigned to the waste bin of history long ago.

Sigh.  Nonsense.  I use octal notation *every day*, for two extremely
prevalent purposes: file creation umask, and Unix file permissions
(i.e. the chmod() function/command).  

I fail to see how 0O012, or even 0o012 is more intelligible than 012.
The latter reads like a typo, and the former is virtually
indistinguishable from 00012, O0012, or many other combinations that
someone might accidentally type (or intentionally type, having to do
this in dozens of other programming languages).  I can see how 012 can
be confusing to new programmers, but at least it's legible, and the
great thing about humans is that they can be taught (usually).  I for
one think this change is completely misguided.  More than flushing out
bugs, it will *cause* them in ubiquity, requiring likely terabytes of
code to be poured over and fixed.  Changing decades-old behaviors
common throughout a community for the sake of avoiding a minor
inconvenience of the n00b is DUMB.

-- 
Derek D. Martin
http://www.pizzashack.org/
GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D

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From dickey at his.com  Fri Aug 21 15:53:17 2009
From: dickey at his.com (Thomas Dickey)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 15:53:17 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: ncurses getch & unicode (was: decoding keyboard input when using
	curses)
In-Reply-To: <65a1d6f80908210458hfa33699m398d9af6eab67674@mail.gmail.com>
References: <65a1d6f80908200936g18b235fcw49d0047168cf9548@mail.gmail.com> 
	 
	<0a683d75-ac07-40a6-8374-2a2e900ac0ba@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<65a1d6f80908210458hfa33699m398d9af6eab67674@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090821155306.K929@mail101.his.com>

On Fri, 21 Aug 2009, I?igo Serna wrote:

> 2009/8/21 Thomas Dickey :
>> On Aug 20, 6:12?pm, I?igo Serna  wrote:
>>> ??????? c = win.getch()
>>
>> You're using "getch", not "get_wch" (Python's ncurses binding may/may
>> not have the latter).
>> curses getch returns 8-bit values, get_wch would return wider values.
>
> you are right, ncurses binding does not have get_wch, only getch, and
> this last is the only one called in ncurses library bindings.
>
>
> Anyway, I've written a patch to include the get_wch method in the bindings.
> See http://bugs.python.org/issue6755
>
>
> Thanks for the clarification,

no problem (report bugs)

> I?igo
>

-- 
Thomas E. Dickey
http://invisible-island.net
ftp://invisible-island.net

From Kevin.Smith at sixquickrun.com  Fri Aug 21 15:58:50 2009
From: Kevin.Smith at sixquickrun.com (Kevin D. Smith)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:58:50 -0500
Subject: 2.6 windows install
References:  <4A8EBF9D.6020306@v.loewis.de>
	
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-21 11:43:31 -0500, Kevin D. Smith 
 said:

> On 2009-08-21 10:39:09 -0500, "Martin v. L?wis"  said:
> 
>>> Did you install Python to the network device from your XP box? That
>>> would explain why you can run it: the required registry settings &
>>> environment variables are added by the installer, none of which is
>>> occurring on any computer other than the one from which you installed.
>> 
>> In principle, Python doesn't need any registry settings or environment
>> variables in order to run.
> 
> That may be true, but it doesn't explain why python won't run.  I'm 
> guessing that it has something to do with the msvc*90.dll files not 
> getting installed.  If those dlls haven't been previously installed, 
> they won't be on the client machine in order for python to use them.  
> However, I haven't had any luck installing these files manually and 
> getting python to work that way.

Installing those files from 
 
does seem to help, but python still gives an error of "The application 
failed to initialize properly (0xc00000022)."  I'm not really sure 
where to go from here.

-- 
Kevin D. Smith



From travis+ml-python at subspacefield.org  Fri Aug 21 16:09:08 2009
From: travis+ml-python at subspacefield.org (Travis)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 15:09:08 -0500
Subject: zlib interface semi-broken
In-Reply-To: <20090212172619.GG6522@subspacefield.org>
References: <20090210205739.GT6522@subspacefield.org>
	<20090212172619.GG6522@subspacefield.org>
Message-ID: <20090821200908.GI1215@subspacefield.org>

I've come up with a good test for issue5210 and uploaded it to the bug tracker.

This patch should be ready for inclusion now.
-- 
Obama Nation | My emails do not have attachments; it's a digital signature
that your mail program doesn't understand. | http://www.subspacefield.org/~travis/ 
If you are a spammer, please email john at subspacefield.org to get blacklisted.
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From travis at subspacefield.org  Fri Aug 21 16:13:12 2009
From: travis at subspacefield.org (travis at subspacefield.org)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 15:13:12 -0500
Subject: proposal: add setresuid() system call to python
In-Reply-To: <20090717205953.2543.1223422516.divmod.quotient.3129@henry.divmod.com>
References: <20090717200141.GI6065@subspacefield.org>
	<20090717205953.2543.1223422516.divmod.quotient.3129@henry.divmod.com>
Message-ID: <20090821201312.GJ1215@subspacefield.org>

On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 04:59:53PM -0400, Jean-Paul Calderone wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 15:01:41 -0500, travis+ml-python at subspacefield.org wrote:
>> I am suggesting that the setresuid function be added to python,
>> perhaps in the OS module, because it has the clearest semantics for
>> manipulating user ids.  The reason why is best described in the
>> following paper:
>
> Yes, it'd be good for Python to expose setresuid.  The best course of
> action is to file a ticket in the issue tracker.  Things will be sped
> along if you also attach a patch implementing the change. :)

I'm now working on this as issue6758 in the tracker.

Adding the calls to the os module doesn't seem like a good idea to me,
because the calls are not POSIX, and it appears that os maps to
posixmodule.c.

Since the authors of the paper (Wagner et. al.) are proposing a new
set of APIs to make all of this clearer, I'm thinking that I will
create a module specifically for dropping permissions.
-- 
Obama Nation | My emails do not have attachments; it's a digital signature
that your mail program doesn't understand. | http://www.subspacefield.org/~travis/ 
If you are a spammer, please email john at subspacefield.org to get blacklisted.
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From mccredie at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 16:20:11 2009
From: mccredie at gmail.com (Matimus)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 13:20:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: 2.6 windows install
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 20, 10:21?am, "Tim Arnold"  wrote:
> Hi,
> I installed python2.6 to a netapp device. I can use it from my local windows
> machine (XP). But others cannot use it from their pcs.
>
> They get this response
> "The system cannot execute the specified program.".
>
> If they double click on python.exe, they get a window
>
> with: This application has failed to start because the application
>
> configuration is incorrect. ?Reinstalling the application may fix this
>
> problem.
>
> When I installed it I didn't see any mention of an 'administrators' install,
> it just installed. The permissions on the directories where it installed are
> set wide-open for everyone.
>
> Any ideas on what I'm missing here?
>
> thanks,
> --Tim Arnold

The default windows install puts Python26.dll in \windows\system32. I
haven't tried this, but you could probably fix your install by moving
Python26.dll into the Python26 directory.

That being said, the usual thing to do would be to install it on each
machine.

Matt


From benjamin at python.org  Fri Aug 21 16:22:47 2009
From: benjamin at python.org (Benjamin Peterson)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 20:22:47 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: <2h2hwo918umw.1ihpdwjimzge8$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<6a523329-3287-4271-ba37-7be450cfc5f6@d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Simon Forman  gmail.com> writes:

> No.  You would have to modify and recompile the interpreter. This is
> not exactly trivial, see "How to Change Python's Grammar"
> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0306/

And even that's incorrect. You'd have to modify the tokenizer.





From benjamin at python.org  Fri Aug 21 16:25:45 2009
From: benjamin at python.org (Benjamin Peterson)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 20:25:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: <20090821194857.GU20434@dragontoe.org>
Message-ID: 

Derek Martin  pizzashack.org> writes:

> More than flushing out
> bugs, it will *cause* them in ubiquity, requiring likely terabytes of
> code to be poured over and fixed.

2to3, however, can fix it for you extreme easily.







From code at pizzashack.org  Fri Aug 21 16:44:14 2009
From: code at pizzashack.org (Derek Martin)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 15:44:14 -0500
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: 
References: <20090821194857.GU20434@dragontoe.org>
	
Message-ID: <20090821204414.GV20434@dragontoe.org>

On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 08:25:45PM +0000, Benjamin Peterson wrote:
> > More than flushing out bugs, it will *cause* them in ubiquity,
> > requiring likely terabytes of code to be poured over and fixed.
> 
> 2to3, however, can fix it for you extreme easily.

Sure, but that won't stop people who've been writing code for 20 years
from continuing to type octal that way...  Humans can learn fairly
easily, but UN-learning is often much harder, especially when the
behavior to be unlearned is still very commonly in use.

Anyway, whatever.  This change (along with a few of the other
seemingly arbitrary changes in 3.x) is annoying, but Python is still
one of the best languages to code in for any multitude of problems.

-- 
Derek D. Martin
http://www.pizzashack.org/
GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D

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From piet at cs.uu.nl  Fri Aug 21 16:44:41 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 22:44:41 +0200
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: 
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Derek Martin  (DM) wrote:

>DM> I fail to see how 0O012, or even 0o012 is more intelligible than 012.
>DM> The latter reads like a typo, and the former is virtually
>DM> indistinguishable from 00012, O0012, or many other combinations that
>DM> someone might accidentally type (or intentionally type, having to do
>DM> this in dozens of other programming languages).  

You're right. Either hexadecimal should have been 0h or octal should
have been 0t :=)
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Aug 21 16:45:41 2009
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 22:45:41 +0200
Subject: 2.6 windows install
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <4A8F0775.1000208@v.loewis.de>

> The default windows install puts Python26.dll in \windows\system32. I
> haven't tried this, but you could probably fix your install by moving
> Python26.dll into the Python26 directory.

Only the admin installation should do that (for all users). The "just
for me" installation won't.

Regards,
Martin


From travis+ml-python at subspacefield.org  Fri Aug 21 16:50:40 2009
From: travis+ml-python at subspacefield.org (travis+ml-python at subspacefield.org)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 15:50:40 -0500
Subject: proposal: add setresuid() system call to python
In-Reply-To: <877hy38mxw.fsf@busola.homelinux.net>
References: <20090717200141.GI6065@subspacefield.org>
	<148918f0907171315i4ed5b274v77581a43c4464f8f@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<7cj89qF27mfrjU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<877hy38mxw.fsf@busola.homelinux.net>
Message-ID: <20090821205040.GK1215@subspacefield.org>

On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 04:10:35PM +0200, Hrvoje Niksic wrote:
> To emulate the os-module-type calls, it's better to raise exceptions
> than return negative values:
> 
> > def setresuid(ruid, euid, suid):
> >     return _setresuid(__uid_t(ruid), __uid_t(euid), __uid_t(suid))
> 
> def setresuid(ruid, euid, suid):
>     res = _setresuid(__uid_t(ruid), __uid_t(euid), __uid_t(suid))
>     if res < 0:
>         raise OSError('[Errno %d] %s' % (os.errno, errno.strerror(os.errno)))

I am working on a module to implement all of this, but that raise command
won't work in Python 2.6.1; it turns out that os.errno is a module, not
an integer.  Does anyone know how to do what I want (that is, how to access
the errno set in C functions)?
-- 
Obama Nation | My emails do not have attachments; it's a digital signature
that your mail program doesn't understand. | http://www.subspacefield.org/~travis/ 
If you are a spammer, please email john at subspacefield.org to get blacklisted.
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From seanm.py at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 16:55:51 2009
From: seanm.py at gmail.com (newb.py)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 13:55:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: IDLE file saving problem
Message-ID: <70222640-1990-4fae-bbca-8451d252a1ab@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

I am learning Python and need to use use IDLE, but I am having a
problem. When I open a new window in IDLE and write my code, all is
well. The coloring works and is very helpful. However, when I save the
file I am working on, all the color disappears. And what is more
frustrating is that when I open the saved file, it opens in TextEdit,
so I have to copy it back into a new IDLE window to work on the code.

If someone could clear up this seemingly simple problem for me, I
would really appreciate it.

Much thanks,
Sean


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Aug 21 17:10:49 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 22:10:49 +0100
Subject: IDLE file saving problem
In-Reply-To: <70222640-1990-4fae-bbca-8451d252a1ab@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
References: <70222640-1990-4fae-bbca-8451d252a1ab@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A8F0D59.9010508@mrabarnett.plus.com>

newb.py wrote:
> I am learning Python and need to use use IDLE, but I am having a
> problem. When I open a new window in IDLE and write my code, all is
> well. The coloring works and is very helpful. However, when I save the
> file I am working on, all the color disappears. And what is more
> frustrating is that when I open the saved file, it opens in TextEdit,
> so I have to copy it back into a new IDLE window to work on the code.
> 
> If someone could clear up this seemingly simple problem for me, I
> would really appreciate it.
> 
That happens if you don't provide the extension, eg you save as
"my_script" instead of "my_script.py". (Perhaps IDLE should add the
extension if the user doesn't.)


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Aug 21 17:18:41 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 22:18:41 +0100
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <4A8F0F31.4080107@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Piet van Oostrum wrote:
>>>>>> Derek Martin  (DM) wrote:
> 
>> DM> I fail to see how 0O012, or even 0o012 is more intelligible than 012.
>> DM> The latter reads like a typo, and the former is virtually
>> DM> indistinguishable from 00012, O0012, or many other combinations that
>> DM> someone might accidentally type (or intentionally type, having to do
>> DM> this in dozens of other programming languages).  
> 
> You're right. Either hexadecimal should have been 0h or octal should
> have been 0t :=)

I have seen the use of Q/q instead in order to make it clearer. I still
prefer Smalltalk's 16rFF and 8r377.


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Aug 21 17:20:20 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 22:20:20 +0100
Subject: Three-Phase-Diagrams with matplotlib
In-Reply-To: <25082083.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <25082083.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: 

M. Hecht wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> does anyone know whether it is possible to draw three-phase-diagrams with
> matplotlib?
> 
> A three-phase-diagram is a triangular diagram applied in chemistry e.g. for
> slags where
> one has three main components of a chemical substance at the corners and
> points or lines 
> within the triangle marking different compositions of the substances in
> percent, e.g.
> in metallurgy 20% Al2O3, 45% CaO and 35% SiO2.
> 
> 
As noone else has responded try the matplotlib users' mailing list, see
http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=80706

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From rt8396 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 17:48:56 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:48:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: IDLE file saving problem
References: <70222640-1990-4fae-bbca-8451d252a1ab@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 21, 4:10?pm, MRAB  wrote:
[snip]
> That happens if you don't provide the extension, eg you save as
> "my_script" instead of "my_script.py". (Perhaps IDLE should add the
> extension if the user doesn't.)

Yes, and much more needs improvement! I have made many changes already
and i am polishing an "IDLE 3000" for the good people of Pythonia,
stay tuned more to come....


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Fri Aug 21 17:53:55 2009
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:53:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Using 'apply' as a decorator, to define constants
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 21, 6:36?am, Jonathan Fine  wrote:
> ? ? ?@apply
> ? ? ?def tags():
> ? ? ? ? ?value = []
> ? ? ? ? ?# complicated code
> ? ? ? ? ?return value
>

Is this different from:

tags = []
# complicated code

I can see the argument that you are cleaning up a lot of intermediary
variables upon return, though.


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Fri Aug 21 18:17:40 2009
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 15:17:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Using 'apply' as a decorator, to define constants
References:  
	
Message-ID: <3c82e522-e879-473b-b814-d9bcd9d905de@u20g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 21, 9:09?am, alex23  wrote:
> On Aug 21, 11:36?pm, Jonathan Fine  wrote:
>
> class ColourThing(object):
> ? ? @apply
> ? ? def rgb():
> ? ? ? ? def fset(self, rgb):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? self.r, self.g, self.b = rgb
> ? ? ? ? def fget(self):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? return (self.r, self.g, self.b)
> ? ? ? ? return property(**locals())
>

This is brilliant. I am going to use this more often. I've all but
given up on property() since defining "get_foo", "get_bar", etc... has
been a pain and polluted the namespace.


> Unfortunately, apply() has been removed as a built-in in 3.x. I'm not
> sure if it has been relocated to a module somewhere, there's no
> mention of such in the docs.

    apply = lambda f: f()

It's one of those functions that is easier to define than import.


> Why I've personally stopped using it: I've always had the impression
> that decorators were intended to provide a convenient and obvious way
> of augmenting functions. Having one that automatically executes the
> function at definition just runs counter to the behaviour I expect
> from a decorator. Especially when direct assignment... foo = foo
> () ...is a far more direct and clear way of expressing exactly what is
> happening.
>

If anyone reads the decorator and doesn't think "this thing below is
defined as the result of this decorator function" then they don't
understand decorators at all.


From sean.marimpietri at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 18:21:52 2009
From: sean.marimpietri at gmail.com (seanm)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 15:21:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Reading, writing files
Message-ID: 

In the book I am using, they give the following function as an
example:

def copyFile(oldFile, newFile):
    f1 = open(oldFile, 'r')
    f2 = open(newFile, 'w')
    while True:
        text = f1.read(50)
        if text == "":
            break
        f2.write(text)
    f1.close()
    f2.close()
    return

My question is why does this function successfully copy a 200
character file, oldFile, to newFile? The line of code that reads, text
= f1.read(50), does not seem to be iterative in any way to me. How is
this fuction succeding in adding each additional set up 50 characters
to the previous set of 50 characters read from oldFile?

How does it even succeed in copying a 25 character file? If oldFile
contains 25 characters, how does the program ever break out of the
'while True:' loop?

I just don't see it.

Again, much thanks to anyone who can clear this up.

-Sean


From seanm.py at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 18:25:17 2009
From: seanm.py at gmail.com (newb.py)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 15:25:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Help Please
Message-ID: <75c475fc-5f93-4e41-98f3-9bde17859343@d4g2000prc.googlegroups.com>

In the book I am using, they give the following function as an
example:

def copyFile(oldFile, newFile):
    f1 = open(oldFile, 'r')
    f2 = open(newFile, 'w')
    while True:
        text = f1.read(50)
        if text == "":
            break
        f2.write(text)
    f1.close()
    f2.close()
    return

My question is why does this function successfully copy a 200
character file, oldFile, to newFile? The line of code that reads,
text
= f1.read(50), does not seem to be iterative in any way to me. How is
this fuction succeding in adding each additional set up 50 characters
to the previous set of 50 characters read from oldFile?
How does it even succeed in copying a 25 character file? If oldFile
contains 25 characters, how does the program ever break out of the
'while True:' loop?

I just don't see it.

Again, much thanks to anyone who can clear this up.

-Sean


From marduk at letterboxes.org  Fri Aug 21 18:42:56 2009
From: marduk at letterboxes.org (Albert Hopkins)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 18:42:56 -0400
Subject: Reading, writing files
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <1250894576.5655.5.camel@centar.nbk>

On Fri, 2009-08-21 at 15:21 -0700, seanm wrote:
> In the book I am using, they give the following function as an
> example:
> 
> def copyFile(oldFile, newFile):
>     f1 = open(oldFile, 'r')
>     f2 = open(newFile, 'w')
>     while True:
>         text = f1.read(50)
>         if text == "":
>             break
>         f2.write(text)
>     f1.close()
>     f2.close()
>     return
> 
> My question is why does this function successfully copy a 200
> character file, oldFile, to newFile? The line of code that reads, text
> = f1.read(50), does not seem to be iterative in any way to me. How is
> this fuction succeding in adding each additional set up 50 characters
> to the previous set of 50 characters read from oldFile?

The body of the loop will execute forever (unless cut short by the
"break" statement.  What the loop is essentially doing is reading 50
bytes at a time from f1 and writing it into f2.  When f1 reaches end of
file it will stop returning bytes (if text == "":) the loop is broken
and both files are closed.

> How does it even succeed in copying a 25 character file? If oldFile
> contains 25 characters, how does the program ever break out of the
> 'while True:' loop?
> 
> I just don't see it.

Have you read the documentation for file objects?

During the first iteration of the loop 25 bytes are read from f1. Then
they are written to f2.  During the next iteration there is nothing else
to be read from f1 so f1.read(50) returns "", which causes the loop to
break.

> Again, much thanks to anyone who can clear this up.
> 




From marduk at letterboxes.org  Fri Aug 21 18:43:54 2009
From: marduk at letterboxes.org (Albert Hopkins)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 18:43:54 -0400
Subject: Help Please
In-Reply-To: <75c475fc-5f93-4e41-98f3-9bde17859343@d4g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
References: <75c475fc-5f93-4e41-98f3-9bde17859343@d4g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1250894634.5655.6.camel@centar.nbk>

Why do you post the same question twice within 5 minutes of each other?




From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Aug 21 18:52:17 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 23:52:17 +0100
Subject: Reading, writing files
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A8F2521.2040406@mrabarnett.plus.com>

seanm wrote:
> In the book I am using, they give the following function as an
> example:
> 
> def copyFile(oldFile, newFile):
>     f1 = open(oldFile, 'r')
>     f2 = open(newFile, 'w')
>     while True:
>         text = f1.read(50)

This will read up to 50 characters from the input file. At the end of
the file it'll return an empty string (""). In fact, the only time it'll
return an empty string is at the end of the file.

>         if text == "":
>             break
>         f2.write(text)
>     f1.close()
>     f2.close()
>     return
> 
> My question is why does this function successfully copy a 200
> character file, oldFile, to newFile? The line of code that reads, text
> = f1.read(50), does not seem to be iterative in any way to me. How is
> this fuction succeding in adding each additional set up 50 characters
> to the previous set of 50 characters read from oldFile?
> 
> How does it even succeed in copying a 25 character file? If oldFile
> contains 25 characters, how does the program ever break out of the
> 'while True:' loop?
> 
> I just don't see it.
> 
> Again, much thanks to anyone who can clear this up.
> 
It reads some characters from the input file and then writes then to the
output file, and because of the 'while' loop it'll repeat action that
until the read returns an empty string, which will be when it has read
all the way to the end of file and tries to read some more.


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Aug 21 18:52:21 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 08:52:21 +1000
Subject: Object Reference question
References: <2dcf41c3-6623-48d9-bb74-97f753088479@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<8763chldpd.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
Message-ID: <87ocq8kcey.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

josef  writes:

> On Aug 21, 4:26?am, Ben Finney  wrote:
> > Note that, after that list is created, each item in that list is
> > *also* a reference to the corresponding object. That is, ?a? is a
> > reference to an object, and ?dk[0]? is a *different* reference to
> > the *same* object. The object has no knowledge about those
> > references.
>
> This is surprising.

Perhaps so, depending on your initial assumptions. But it's quite
consistent: every time you use an object, you do so via some kind of
reference to that object. Those references are the way you get at the
same object again later.

> My initial thought is that dk[0] hold the object reference 'a,' but
> that wouldn't be true "pass by object reference."

Right. It stores an entirely *separate* reference to that object. The
reference ?dk[0]?, a list item, and the reference ?a?, a name, both
refer to the same object. Neither of those references knows anything
about the other.

> When defining the object reference dk[0]

Not ?defining?. You're binding (?assigning?, if you like) a reference.

> python takes the object reference 'a,'

More accurately, it takes the object referred to by ?a?. (Also, please
don't put the comma inside the quotes; it's syntactically significant,
and changes the meaning of what you're writing in code.)

> finds the object MyClass0()

No. ?MyClass0()? is syntax for ?call MyClass0 and get its return value?.
The return value will be a new instance of the class ? a *new* object
every time you use that syntax.

Rather, the object referred to by ?a? will be the result of evaluating
the identifier ?a?. As a shortcut for discussion, you can talk about
?the object ?a??, but remember that the only things you're using in the
syntax of your Python code is object *references*, be they identifiers
(names) or some other kind of reference.

> and then assigns the object identity to dk[0]? Or something close to
> that.

You'd do well to read 
for a good, simple coverage of the Python object model.

> I'm a bit shocked that there isn't a method for catching object
> reference names.

Don't be; there is no such thing as an ?object reference name?.

A name is an object reference. So is every other way of getting at a
Python object in your code.

> I think that something like a = MyClass0(name = 'a', ...) is a bit
> redundant.

It usually is, yes. Why do you think you need it? The natural way to
handle objects and names together in Python is with a mapping; a ?dict?
instance.

> Are definitions treated the same way? How would one print or pass
> function names?

Functions are objects like any other, but since they're more likely to
want to know their own name, the name is stored as an attribute::

    >>> def frobnicate_nodule(spam):
    ...     """ Frobnicate the spam nodule. """
    ... 
    >>> type(frobnicate_nodule)
    
    >>> frobnicate_nodule.__name__
    'frobnicate_nodule'

The fact that the function name is stored in one of those funky
double-underscore names is a big clue that the attribute is special (in
this case, because it gets assigned automatically by the Python
interpreter).

That's not the case for most types, though.

> I think I'll just add a 'name' to the classes' init defintion.

What is the larger problem you're trying to solve, and why do you think
it will be helped by instances knowing a name for themselves?

(Note: an object can never know *all* names for itself, let alone all
the other references to itself; and you must write your program in the
knowledge that no reference to an object has any intrinsic special
status against any of the other references to that object.)

-- 
 \        ?I spent a lot of money on wine and women, and like a fool I |
  `\                                 squandered the rest.? ?Benny Hill |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Aug 21 18:55:11 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 08:55:11 +1000
Subject: Sanitising arguments to shell commands
References: <873a7l21gr.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
	<87ab1tlekn.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
	<50697b2c0908210219i5e02c0cbq2d63bff891624ef4@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <87k50wkca8.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Rick King  writes:

> shlex doesn't handle unicode input though, so, in general, it's not a
> good solution.

Argh. Is there a Python bug tracker number for fixing that? Or is there
a better solution?

-- 
 \         ?Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?? ?I think so, |
  `\   Brain, but if we have nothing to fear but fear itself, why does |
_o__) Elanore Roosevelt wear that spooky mask?? ?_Pinky and The Brain_ |
Ben Finney


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 19:23:29 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 16:23:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: proposal: add setresuid() system call to python
References: <20090717200141.GI6065@subspacefield.org>
	<148918f0907171315i4ed5b274v77581a43c4464f8f@mail.gmail.com> 
	
	<7cj89qF27mfrjU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> 
	<877hy38mxw.fsf@busola.homelinux.net>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 21, 1:50?pm, travis+ml-pyt... at subspacefield.org wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 04:10:35PM +0200, Hrvoje Niksic wrote:
> > To emulate the os-module-type calls, it's better to raise exceptions
> > than return negative values:
>
> > > def setresuid(ruid, euid, suid):
> > > ? ? return _setresuid(__uid_t(ruid), __uid_t(euid), __uid_t(suid))
>
> > def setresuid(ruid, euid, suid):
> > ? ? res = _setresuid(__uid_t(ruid), __uid_t(euid), __uid_t(suid))
> > ? ? if res < 0:
> > ? ? ? ? raise OSError('[Errno %d] %s' % (os.errno, errno.strerror(os.errno)))
>
> I am working on a module to implement all of this, but that raise command
> won't work in Python 2.6.1; it turns out that os.errno is a module, not
> an integer. ?Does anyone know how to do what I want (that is, how to access
> the errno set in C functions)?

You are using ctypes, I presume?  Try replacing raise OSError with
this:

ctypes.pythonapi.PyErr_SetFromErrno(ctypes.py_object(OSError))

Not entirely sure it'll work with Python built with a static library,
but I think it will.


Carl Banks


From james.harris.1 at googlemail.com  Fri Aug 21 19:23:57 2009
From: james.harris.1 at googlemail.com (James Harris)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 16:23:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 21 Aug, 20:48, Derek Martin  wrote:

...

> James Harris wrote:
> > It maybe made sense once but this relic of the past should have been
> > consigned to the waste bin of history long ago.
>
> Sigh. ?Nonsense. ?I use octal notation *every day*, for two extremely
> prevalent purposes: file creation umask, and Unix file permissions
> (i.e. the chmod() function/command). ?

You misunderstand. I was saying that taking a leading zero as
indicating octal is archaic. Octal itself is fine where appropriate.

The chmod command doesn't require a leading zero.

James


From dullrich at sprynet.com  Fri Aug 21 19:32:41 2009
From: dullrich at sprynet.com (David C. Ullrich)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 18:32:41 -0500
Subject: Silly question
References: 
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: <5jbu85dvva20ntj9iai1rhp9a51ipan989@4ax.com>

On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:45:55 -0500, David C Ullrich
 wrote:

>[...]
>
>Oops. Should have tested that a little more carefully
>before posting. No time to fix it right now, customer just
>got here. Let's just say we're looking for the primes
>between sqrt(n) and n...

from math import sqrt

def Primes(n):
  """Return a list of the primes < n"""
  sieve = range(n)
  for k in range(2,int(sqrt(n))+2):
      sieve[2*k::k] = [1]*((n-k-1)/k)
  return [p for p in sieve if p > 1]


David C. Ullrich

"Understanding Godel isn't about following his formal proof. 
That would make a mockery of everything Godel was up to."
(John Jones, "My talk about Godel to the post-grads."
in sci.logic.)


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Aug 21 19:38:42 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 21 Aug 2009 16:38:42 -0700
Subject: Code formatting question: conditional expression
References: 
	<7evr1pF2i4mouU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<87ocqchl2k.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: 

In article <87ocqchl2k.fsf at benfinney.id.au>,
Ben Finney   wrote:
>"Diez B. Roggisch"  writes:
>>
>> excessblk = None
>> if total > P.BASE:
>>     excessblk = ...
>>
>> You don't lose any vertical space,
>
>I don't see vertical space as such a scarce resource; we don't have an
>imminent newline shortage, to my knowledge. I value it far lower than,
>say, local readability.

We don't have a newline shortage, but we do have a pixel shortage.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I support family values -- Addams family values" --www.nancybuttons.com


From james.harris.1 at googlemail.com  Fri Aug 21 19:52:29 2009
From: james.harris.1 at googlemail.com (James Harris)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 16:52:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References:  
	
	
Message-ID: <6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>

On 21 Aug, 22:18, MRAB  wrote:
> Piet van Oostrum wrote:
> >>>>>> Derek Martin  (DM) wrote:
>
> >> DM> I fail to see how 0O012, or even 0o012 is more intelligible than 012.
> >> DM> The latter reads like a typo, and the former is virtually
> >> DM> indistinguishable from 00012, O0012, or many other combinations that
> >> DM> someone might accidentally type (or intentionally type, having to do
> >> DM> this in dozens of other programming languages). ?
>
> > You're right. Either hexadecimal should have been 0h or octal should
> > have been 0t :=)
>
> I have seen the use of Q/q instead in order to make it clearer. I still
> prefer Smalltalk's 16rFF and 8r377.

Two interesting options. In a project I have on I have also considered
using 0q as indicating octal. I maybe saw it used once somewhere else
but I have no idea where. 0t was a second choice and 0c third choice
(the other letters of oct). 0o should NOT be used for obvious reasons.

So you are saying that Smalltalk has r where
r is presumably for radix? That's maybe best of all. It preserves the
syntactic requirement of starting a number with a digit and seems to
have greatest flexibility. Not sure how good it looks but it's
certainly not bad.

  0xff & 0x0e | 0b1101
  16rff & 16r0e | 2r1101

Hmm. Maybe a symbol would be better than a letter.

James


From wgheath at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 19:58:50 2009
From: wgheath at gmail.com (Tim Heath)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 16:58:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
Message-ID: <485663771.786023.1250899130772.JavaMail.app@ech3-cdn10.prod>

LinkedIn
------------

Tim Heath requested to add you as a connection on LinkedIn:
------------------------------------------

Jaime,

I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn.

- Tim


View invitation from Tim Heath
http://www.linkedin.com/e/I2LlXdLlWUhFABKmxVOlgGLlWUhFAfhMPPF/blk/I287618177_3/0PnPsTcjwNdzsUcAALqnpPbOYWrSlI/svi/
------------------------------------------

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http://www.linkedin.com/

 
------
(c) 2009, LinkedIn Corporation

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From clp2 at rebertia.com  Fri Aug 21 20:02:14 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 17:02:14 -0700
Subject: Sanitising arguments to shell commands
In-Reply-To: <87k50wkca8.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <873a7l21gr.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
	<87ab1tlekn.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
	<50697b2c0908210219i5e02c0cbq2d63bff891624ef4@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<87k50wkca8.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908211702h2a2017f8r18f9a7b4b56d87fa@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 3:55 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
> Rick King  writes:
>
>> shlex doesn't handle unicode input though, so, in general, it's not a
>> good solution.
>
> Argh. Is there a Python bug tracker number for fixing that?

Indeed there is:
http://bugs.python.org/issue1170

It even has a patch. I wonder why it's unapplied.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Aug 21 20:03:35 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 10:03:35 +1000
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: 
Message-ID: <87d46ok948.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Derek Martin  writes:

> James Harris wrote:
> > It maybe made sense once but this relic of the past should have been
> > consigned to the waste bin of history long ago.
>
> Sigh. Nonsense. I use octal notation *every day*, for two extremely
> prevalent purposes: file creation umask, and Unix file permissions
> (i.e. the chmod() function/command).

Right. Until Unix stops using these (and whatever replaces it would have
to be pretty compelling, given the prevalence of these in octal
notation), or until people stop using Unix, these will be with us and
require octal notation.

That doesn't mean, of course, that we need to elevate it above
hexadecimal in our language syntax; ?0o012? will allow octal notation
for literals just fine.

> I fail to see how 0O012, or even 0o012 is more intelligible than 012.
> The latter reads like a typo

No, it reads like a very common notation for decimal numbers in natural
usage. It's very frequently not a typo, but an expression of a
three-digit decimal number that happens to be less than 100.

> and the former is virtually indistinguishable from 00012, O0012, or
> many other combinations that someone might accidentally type (or
> intentionally type, having to do this in dozens of other programming
> languages).

Only if you type the letter in uppercase. The lower-case ?o? is much
easier to distinguish.

Whether or not you find ?0o012? easily distinguishable as a non-decimal
notation, it's undoubtedly easier to distinguish than ?012?.

> I can see how 012 can be confusing to new programmers, but at least
> it's legible, and the great thing about humans is that they can be
> taught (usually). I for one think this change is completely misguided.

These human programmers, whether newbies or long-experienced, also deal
with decimal numbers every day, many of which are presented as a
sequence of digits with leading zeros ? and we continue to think of them
as decimal numbers regardless. Having the language syntax opposed to
that is a wart, a cognitive overhead with little benefit, and I'll be
glad to see it go in favour of a clearer syntax.

-- 
 \       ?? one of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was |
  `\        that, lacking zero, they had no way to indicate successful |
_o__)                  termination of their C programs.? ?Robert Firth |
Ben Finney
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From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Aug 21 20:09:29 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 10:09:29 +1000
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: <20090821194857.GU20434@dragontoe.org>
	
	
Message-ID: <878whck8ue.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Derek Martin  writes:

> Sure, but that won't stop people who've been writing code for 20 years
> from continuing to type octal that way... Humans can learn fairly
> easily, but UN-learning is often much harder, especially when the
> behavior to be unlearned is still very commonly in use.

This is exactly the argument for removing ?012? octal notation: humans
(and programmers who have far less need for octal numbers than for
decimal numbers) are *already* trained, and reinforced many times daily,
to think of that notation as a decimal number. They should not need to
un-learn that association in order to understand octal literals in code.

> Anyway, whatever. This change (along with a few of the other seemingly
> arbitrary changes in 3.x) is annoying, but Python is still one of the
> best languages to code in for any multitude of problems.

Hear hear.

-- 
 \     ?I wrote a song, but I can't read music so I don't know what it |
  `\    is. Every once in a while I'll be listening to the radio and I |
_o__)        say, ?I think I might have written that.?? ?Steven Wright |
Ben Finney
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From smono927 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 21:15:35 2009
From: smono927 at gmail.com (SeanMon)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 18:15:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Decompressing gzip over FTP
Message-ID: 

Is there a way to decompress a large (2GB) gzipped file being
retrieved over FTP on the fly?

I'm using ftplib.FTP to open a connection to a remote server, and I
have had no success connecting retrbinary to gzip without using an
intermediate file.

Is there any way to get a file-like object describing the remote file,
or a way to utilize gzip's decompression without providing it a file-
like object?

Thanks,
Sean


From lists at cheimes.de  Fri Aug 21 21:40:58 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 03:40:58 +0200
Subject: Decompressing gzip over FTP
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A8F4CAA.7040903@cheimes.de>

SeanMon schrieb:
> Is there a way to decompress a large (2GB) gzipped file being
> retrieved over FTP on the fly?
> 
> I'm using ftplib.FTP to open a connection to a remote server, and I
> have had no success connecting retrbinary to gzip without using an
> intermediate file.
> 
> Is there any way to get a file-like object describing the remote file,
> or a way to utilize gzip's decompression without providing it a file-
> like object?

gzip is really just a file format. In order to work with compressed 
streams you should use the low level zlib module.

http://docs.python.org/library/zlib.html#module-zlib

Have fun!

Christian


From smono927 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 21:51:47 2009
From: smono927 at gmail.com (SeanMon)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 18:51:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Decompressing gzip over FTP
References: 
	
Message-ID: <0bf17e27-408c-4d67-90cc-74f28789f524@32g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 21, 9:40?pm, Christian Heimes  wrote:
> SeanMon schrieb:
>
> > Is there a way to decompress a large (2GB) gzipped file being
> > retrieved over FTP on the fly?
>
> > I'm using ftplib.FTP to open a connection to a remote server, and I
> > have had no success connecting retrbinary to gzip without using an
> > intermediate file.
>
> > Is there any way to get a file-like object describing the remote file,
> > or a way to utilize gzip's decompression without providing it a file-
> > like object?
>
> gzip is really just a file format. In order to work with compressed
> streams you should use the low level zlib module.
>
> http://docs.python.org/library/zlib.html#module-zlib
>
> Have fun!
>
> Christian

Unfortunately, the file on the server is a gzip file, so I cannot
simply pipe the contents into a zlib.decompressobj (which does have
the ability to decompress in chunks, as I wish gzip did!).

Thanks,
Sean


From subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 22:15:31 2009
From: subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com (joy99)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 19:15:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Questions on XML
Message-ID: <51b22a8c-54de-484e-9b3c-9baeb4498f69@q40g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

Dear Group,

I like to convert some simple strings of natural language to XML. May
I use Python to do this? If any one can help me, on this.

I am using primarily UTF-8 based strings, like Hindi or Bengali. Can I
use Python to help me in this regard?

How can I learn good XML aspects of Python. If any one can kindly name
me a book or URL.

I am using Python2.6 on Windows XP with IDLE as GUI.

Best Regards,
Subhabrata.


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 22:35:38 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 19:35:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Using 'apply' as a decorator, to define constants
References:  
	 
	<3c82e522-e879-473b-b814-d9bcd9d905de@u20g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Jonathan Gardner  wrote:
> This is brilliant. I am going to use this more often. I've all but
> given up on property() since defining "get_foo", "get_bar", etc... has
> been a pain and polluted the namespace.

Unfortunately I can't remember who I first learned it from - it was
definitely in a post to this group - otherwise all credit would be
their's.

> It's one of those functions that is easier to define than import.

And so obvious now :)

> If anyone reads the decorator and doesn't think "this thing below is
> defined as the result of this decorator function" then they don't
> understand decorators at all.

Well, it's not so much a question of the reader's intelligence as that
Python already has a readily identifiable assignment operator. Having
a second mechanism for assignment with no real similarity to the first
just adds cognitive friction to reading the code...not because the
reader doesn't understand what is happening, but because it's not
obvious _why_ this second form would have been chosen.

Nothing that couldn't be mitigated with a comment, I guess.

    # @apply used to prevent having to repeat references

That would work for me.


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Aug 21 22:54:27 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 22 Aug 2009 02:54:27 GMT
Subject: Using 'apply' as a decorator, to define constants
References: 
	
	<3c82e522-e879-473b-b814-d9bcd9d905de@u20g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0018e14c$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 15:17:40 -0700, Jonathan Gardner wrote:

>> Unfortunately, apply() has been removed as a built-in in 3.x. I'm not
>> sure if it has been relocated to a module somewhere, there's no mention
>> of such in the docs.
> 
>     apply = lambda f: f()
> 
> It's one of those functions that is easier to define than import.

>>> apply = lambda f: f()
>>> __builtin__.apply(len, 'a')
1
>>> apply(len, 'a')
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
TypeError: () takes exactly 1 argument (2 given)


It's a little bit more difficult to define it *correctly*. Here's a 
working version of apply:


def apply(object, *args, **kwargs):
    """apply(object[, args[, kwargs]]) -> value

    Call a callable object with positional and keyword arguments.

    >>> apply(max, 'one', 'two', 'three', 'four', key=len)
    'three'

    """
    return object(*args, **kwargs)

Note that this:

* actually does what apply() is supposed to do;
* defines the function name, useful for tracebacks;
* has a docstring, useful for interactive use and documentation;
* includes an example suitable for automated testing with doctest.



-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Aug 21 22:55:51 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 22 Aug 2009 02:55:51 GMT
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: 
Message-ID: <0018e1a0$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:48:57 -0500, Derek Martin wrote:

>> It maybe made sense once but this relic of the past should have been
>> consigned to the waste bin of history long ago.
> 
> Sigh.  Nonsense.  I use octal notation *every day*, for two extremely
> prevalent purposes: file creation umask, and Unix file permissions (i.e.
> the chmod() function/command).

And you will still be able to, by explicitly using octal notation.


> I fail to see how 0O012, or even 0o012 is more intelligible than 012.

The first is wrong, bad, wicked, and if I catch anyone using it, they 
will be soundly slapped with a halibut. *wink*

Using O instead of o for octal is so unreadable that I think it should be 
prohibited by the language, no matter that hex notation accepts both x 
and X.


> The latter reads like a typo, 

*Everything* reads like a typo if you're unaware of the syntax being used.


> and the former is virtually
> indistinguishable from 00012, O0012, or many other combinations that
> someone might accidentally type (or intentionally type, having to do
> this in dozens of other programming languages).

Agreed.


> I can see how 012 can
> be confusing to new programmers, but at least it's legible, and the
> great thing about humans is that they can be taught (usually).

And the great thing is that now you get to teach yourself to stop writing 
octal numbers implicitly and be write them explicitly with a leading 0o 
instead :)

It's not just new programmers -- it's any programmer who is unaware of 
the notation (possibly derived from C) that a leading 0 means "octal". 
That's a strange and bizarre notation to use, because 012 is a perfectly 
valid notation for decimal 12, as are 0012, 00012, 000012 and so forth. 
Anyone who has learnt any mathematics beyond the age of six will almost 
certainly expect 012 to equal 12. Having 012 equal 10 comes as a surprise 
even to people who are familiar with octal.


> I for
> one think this change is completely misguided.  More than flushing out
> bugs, it will *cause* them in ubiquity, requiring likely terabytes of
> code to be poured over and fixed.  Changing decades-old behaviors common
> throughout a community for the sake of avoiding a minor inconvenience of
> the n00b is DUMB.

Use of octal isn't common. You've given two cases were octal notation is 
useful, but for every coder who frequently writes umasks on Unix systems, 
there are a thousand who don't.

It's no hardship to write 0o12 instead of 012.


-- 
Steven


From dns4 at cornell.edu  Fri Aug 21 22:57:16 2009
From: dns4 at cornell.edu (David Smith)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 22:57:16 -0400
Subject: Questions on XML
In-Reply-To: <51b22a8c-54de-484e-9b3c-9baeb4498f69@q40g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <51b22a8c-54de-484e-9b3c-9baeb4498f69@q40g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

joy99 wrote:
> Dear Group,
> 
> I like to convert some simple strings of natural language to XML. May
> I use Python to do this? If any one can help me, on this.
> 
> I am using primarily UTF-8 based strings, like Hindi or Bengali. Can I
> use Python to help me in this regard?
> 
> How can I learn good XML aspects of Python. If any one can kindly name
> me a book or URL.
> 
> I am using Python2.6 on Windows XP with IDLE as GUI.
> 
> Best Regards,
> Subhabrata.

Take a look at xml.etree.ElementTree package and it's contents.  It's
included in the binary distributions of Python 2.6.  There are lot's of
books out covering XML and UTF-8 is exactly where you want to be w/ XML.

--David


From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 00:18:13 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 21:18:13 -0700
Subject: Questions on XML
In-Reply-To: <51b22a8c-54de-484e-9b3c-9baeb4498f69@q40g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <51b22a8c-54de-484e-9b3c-9baeb4498f69@q40g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 


> I am using primarily UTF-8 based strings, like Hindi or Bengali. Can I
> use Python to help me in this regard?

I can say from experience that Python on Windows (at least, Python  
2.5 on 32-bit Vista) works perfectly well with UTF-8 files containing  
Bangla. I have had trouble with working with the data in IDLE,  
however, which seems to prefer ASCII by default.

-------------
Rami Chowdhury
"Never assume malice when stupidity will suffice." -- Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)




On Aug 21, 2009, at 19:15 , joy99 wrote:

> Dear Group,
>
> I like to convert some simple strings of natural language to XML. May
> I use Python to do this? If any one can help me, on this.
>
> I am using primarily UTF-8 based strings, like Hindi or Bengali. Can I
> use Python to help me in this regard?
>
> How can I learn good XML aspects of Python. If any one can kindly name
> me a book or URL.
>
> I am using Python2.6 on Windows XP with IDLE as GUI.
>
> Best Regards,
> Subhabrata.
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Sat Aug 22 01:53:31 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 07:53:31 +0200
Subject: Questions on XML
In-Reply-To: 
References: <51b22a8c-54de-484e-9b3c-9baeb4498f69@q40g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4a8f87db$0$30221$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net>

Rami Chowdhury wrote:
>> I am using primarily UTF-8 based strings, like Hindi or Bengali. Can I
>> use Python to help me in this regard?
> 
> I can say from experience that Python on Windows (at least, Python 2.5
> on 32-bit Vista) works perfectly well with UTF-8 files containing
> Bangla. I have had trouble with working with the data in IDLE, however,
> which seems to prefer ASCII by default.

Defaults almost never work for encodings. You have to be explicit: add an
encoding declaration to the top of your source file if you use encoded
literal strings in your code; use the codecs module with a suitable
encoding to read encoded text files, and use an XML parser when reading XML.

Stefan


From kee at kagi.com  Sat Aug 22 02:09:36 2009
From: kee at kagi.com (Kee Nethery)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 23:09:36 -0700
Subject: Questions on XML
In-Reply-To: <51b22a8c-54de-484e-9b3c-9baeb4498f69@q40g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <51b22a8c-54de-484e-9b3c-9baeb4498f69@q40g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 


On Aug 21, 2009, at 7:15 PM, joy99 wrote:

> Dear Group,
>
> I like to convert some simple strings of natural language to XML. May
> I use Python to do this? If any one can help me, on this.
>
> I am using primarily UTF-8 based strings, like Hindi or Bengali. Can I
> use Python to help me in this regard?

As a newbie, the thing that caused me trouble was importing a string  
into the XML parser. The parser seemed to want to open a file and I  
had a string. The solution was one of these:

from xml.etree import ElementTree as et
theXmlDataTree = et.parse(StringIO.StringIO(theXmlString))


from xml.etree import ElementTree as et
theXmlDataTree = et.ElementTree(et.XML(theXmlString))

Not sure which you would use nor what the differences are. I have the  
first set commented out in my code so for some reason I switched to  
the second set of code to take a string and pull it into the XML parser.

Once the string is in the parser, all the examples worked. It was  
getting it into the parser that had me stumped because none of the  
examples showed this situation, it appears to be obvious to someone  
who has used Python for a while.

Kee


From subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 02:13:33 2009
From: subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com (joy99)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 23:13:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Questions on XML
References: <51b22a8c-54de-484e-9b3c-9baeb4498f69@q40g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	
	<4a8f87db$0$30221$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <575587f9-b2d2-498f-a907-0a90c260aa60@i4g2000prm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 22, 10:53?am, Stefan Behnel  wrote:
> Rami Chowdhury wrote:
> >> I am using primarily UTF-8 based strings, like Hindi or Bengali. Can I
> >> use Python to help me in this regard?
>
> > I can say from experience that Python on Windows (at least, Python 2.5
> > on 32-bit Vista) works perfectly well with UTF-8 files containing
> > Bangla. I have had trouble with working with the data in IDLE, however,
> > which seems to prefer ASCII by default.
>
> Defaults almost never work for encodings. You have to be explicit: add an
> encoding declaration to the top of your source file if you use encoded
> literal strings in your code; use the codecs module with a suitable
> encoding to read encoded text files, and use an XML parser when reading XML.
>
> Stefan

Dear Group,
Thanx for your reply. Python works perfectly for Hindi and Bangla with
Win XP. I never had a trouble.
Best Regards,
Subhabrata.


From emmanuel.surleau at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 02:55:17 2009
From: emmanuel.surleau at gmail.com (Emmanuel Surleau)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 08:55:17 +0200
Subject: Questions on XML
In-Reply-To: <4a8f87db$0$30221$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net>
References: <51b22a8c-54de-484e-9b3c-9baeb4498f69@q40g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	
	<4a8f87db$0$30221$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <200908220855.17815.emmanuel.surleau@gmail.com>

> >> I am using primarily UTF-8 based strings, like Hindi or Bengali. Can I
> >> use Python to help me in this regard?
> >
> > I can say from experience that Python on Windows (at least, Python 2.5
> > on 32-bit Vista) works perfectly well with UTF-8 files containing
> > Bangla. I have had trouble with working with the data in IDLE, however,
> > which seems to prefer ASCII by default.
>
> Defaults almost never work for encodings. You have to be explicit: add an
> encoding declaration to the top of your source file if you use encoded
> literal strings in your code; use the codecs module with a suitable
> encoding to read encoded text files, and use an XML parser when reading
> XML.

Actually, default *should* work for XML. The default encoding for an XML file 
is UTF-8 (AFAIK).

Cheers,

Emm


From emmanuel.surleau at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 02:59:56 2009
From: emmanuel.surleau at gmail.com (Emmanuel Surleau)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 08:59:56 +0200
Subject: Questions on XML
In-Reply-To: <575587f9-b2d2-498f-a907-0a90c260aa60@i4g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
References: <51b22a8c-54de-484e-9b3c-9baeb4498f69@q40g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<4a8f87db$0$30221$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net>
	<575587f9-b2d2-498f-a907-0a90c260aa60@i4g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <200908220859.56127.emmanuel.surleau@gmail.com>

On Saturday 22 August 2009 08:13:33 joy99 wrote:
> On Aug 22, 10:53 am, Stefan Behnel  wrote:
> > Rami Chowdhury wrote:
> > >> I am using primarily UTF-8 based strings, like Hindi or Bengali. Can I
> > >> use Python to help me in this regard?
> > >
> > > I can say from experience that Python on Windows (at least, Python 2.5
> > > on 32-bit Vista) works perfectly well with UTF-8 files containing
> > > Bangla. I have had trouble with working with the data in IDLE, however,
> > > which seems to prefer ASCII by default.
> >
> > Defaults almost never work for encodings. You have to be explicit: add an
> > encoding declaration to the top of your source file if you use encoded
> > literal strings in your code; use the codecs module with a suitable
> > encoding to read encoded text files, and use an XML parser when reading
> > XML.
> >
> > Stefan
>
> Dear Group,
> Thanx for your reply. Python works perfectly for Hindi and Bangla with
> Win XP. I never had a trouble.
> Best Regards,
> Subhabrata.

You might also want to have a look at lxml. It can much more than the XML 
module in the default distribution, uses ElementTree as well, and is backed by 
the kickass, fast libxml library (http://codespeak.net/lxml/). It will allow 
you to use XSLs, for instance. Regardless of whether you use lxml or not, have 
a look at etree.iterparse, it is invaluable when processing huge XML 
documents.

Cheers,

Emm


From jfine at pytex.org  Sat Aug 22 03:09:52 2009
From: jfine at pytex.org (Jonathan Fine)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 08:09:52 +0100
Subject: Using 'apply' as a decorator, to define constants
In-Reply-To: <3c82e522-e879-473b-b814-d9bcd9d905de@u20g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	<3c82e522-e879-473b-b814-d9bcd9d905de@u20g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Jonathan Gardner wrote:
> On Aug 21, 9:09 am, alex23  wrote:
>> On Aug 21, 11:36 pm, Jonathan Fine  wrote:
>>
>> class ColourThing(object):
>>     @apply
>>     def rgb():
>>         def fset(self, rgb):
>>             self.r, self.g, self.b = rgb
>>         def fget(self):
>>             return (self.r, self.g, self.b)
>>         return property(**locals())
>>
> 
> This is brilliant. I am going to use this more often. I've all but
> given up on property() since defining "get_foo", "get_bar", etc... has
> been a pain and polluted the namespace.


I think we can do better, with a little work.  And also solve the 
problem that 'apply' is no longer a builtin in Python3.

Here's my suggestion:
===
import wibble # Informs reader we're doing something special here.

class ColourThing(object):

     @wibble.property
     def rgb():
         '''This is the docstring for the property.'''
         def fset(self, rgb):
             self.r, self.g, self.b = rgb
         def fget(self):
             return (self.r, self.g, self.b)
         return locals()
===

And here's wibble.property()
===
_property = property  # Avoid collision.
def property(fn):
     return _property(doc=fn.__doc__, **fn())
===

We can add apply() to the wibble module.  By the way, 'wibble' is a 
placeholder to the real name.  Any suggestions?

-- 
Jonathan


From kushal.kumaran+python at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 03:11:49 2009
From: kushal.kumaran+python at gmail.com (Kushal Kumaran)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 12:41:49 +0530
Subject: convert date time
In-Reply-To: <9c8c445f0908211114x52989399m9dff884ccdd43ad0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9c8c445f0908211114x52989399m9dff884ccdd43ad0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1e364c4e0908220011qd99b59ek973060fd767d1dc0@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 11:44 PM, Ronn Ross wrote:
> I'm new to python and I'm getting a date time from a field in the database
> that looks like this:
> 8/2/2009 8:36:16 AM (UTC)
>
> I want to split it into two fields one with the date formatted like this:
> YYYY-MM-DD? 2009-08-02
>
> and the time to be 24 hour or military time. How every you call it. Similar
> to this:
> 15:22:00
>
> I found it easy to truncate off the (UTC), but having trouble converting the
> date. Can someone point me in the right direction?
>

datetime.datetime.strptime() will give you a datetime object, which
you can then format in a wide variety of ways using its strftime()
method.  Doesn't work with dates earlier than 1900, I believe.

-- 
kushal


From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 03:16:29 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 00:16:29 -0700
Subject: Questions on XML
In-Reply-To: <4a8f87db$0$30221$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net>
References: <51b22a8c-54de-484e-9b3c-9baeb4498f69@q40g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	
	<4a8f87db$0$30221$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <89952E85-0E6C-4B62-A638-E742E67030CF@gmail.com>

> encoding declaration to the top of your source file if you use encoded
> literal strings in your code

Any tips for how to set the encoding in IDLE? printing the Unicode  
strings works -- trying to repr() the variable chokes with a  
UnicodeDecodeError, and trying to enter the literals inside IDLE just  
gets me '?' characters instead.

(this is Python 2.5 + IDLE installed from the Python-2.5.msi on  
python.org)

-------------
Rami Chowdhury
"Never assume malice when stupidity will suffice." -- Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)




On Aug 21, 2009, at 22:53 , Stefan Behnel wrote:

> Rami Chowdhury wrote:
>>> I am using primarily UTF-8 based strings, like Hindi or Bengali.  
>>> Can I
>>> use Python to help me in this regard?
>>
>> I can say from experience that Python on Windows (at least, Python  
>> 2.5
>> on 32-bit Vista) works perfectly well with UTF-8 files containing
>> Bangla. I have had trouble with working with the data in IDLE,  
>> however,
>> which seems to prefer ASCII by default.
>
> Defaults almost never work for encodings. You have to be explicit:  
> add an
> encoding declaration to the top of your source file if you use encoded
> literal strings in your code; use the codecs module with a suitable
> encoding to read encoded text files, and use an XML parser when  
> reading XML.
>
> Stefan
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From ray.belanger at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 04:17:49 2009
From: ray.belanger at gmail.com (flagmino)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 01:17:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: debugger
Message-ID: <71854089-ba76-40c8-8a81-e224711cf7c0@i8g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

To get familiar with the debugger, I have loaded this program:

import math

def s1(x, y):
   a = (x + y)
   print("Answer from s1"), a
   return

def s2(x, y):
   b = (x - y)
   print("This comes from s2"), b
   #print z
   print("call from s2: "), s1(x, y)
   return

I am trying to debug:
I press shift-F9 and F7. I end up in the interpreter where I enter s2
(1, 2).

>From that point if I press F7, the program restart all over.
If I press Enter, the program gets out of debug mode.

Please help me figuring out how I can use the dbugger. You are welcome
to send a sound file if this is easier for you.

Thanks

ray


From ak at nothere.com  Sat Aug 22 04:20:23 2009
From: ak at nothere.com (AK)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 04:20:23 -0400
Subject: How to 'de-slashify' a string?
Message-ID: <4a8faa47$0$31283$607ed4bc@cv.net>

Hi, if I have a string '\\303\\266', how can I convert it to '\303\266' 
in a general way?

The problem I'm running into is that I'm connecting with pygresql to a 
postgres database and when I get fields that are of 'char' type, I get 
them in unicode, but when I get fields of 'byte' type, I get the text 
with quoted slashes, e.g. '\303' becomes '\\303' and so on.

I saw posts online to do

cursor.execute("set client-encoding to unicode")

before running queries but this command causes an error.

So I think I need a way to de-quote the slashes or alternatively
some way to tell pygresql not to quote slashes for 'byte' fields.

Any help, hints, etc appreciated..

-- 
AK


From contact at xavierho.com  Sat Aug 22 04:53:59 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 18:53:59 +1000
Subject: debugger
In-Reply-To: <71854089-ba76-40c8-8a81-e224711cf7c0@i8g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
References: <71854089-ba76-40c8-8a81-e224711cf7c0@i8g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908220153r6455323al4610f453443bc175@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 6:17 PM, flagmino  wrote:

> To get familiar with the debugger, I have loaded this program:
>
> import math
>
> def s1(x, y):
>   a = (x + y)
>   print("Answer from s1"), a
>   return
>
> def s2(x, y):
>   b = (x - y)
>   print("This comes from s2"), b
>   #print z
>   print("call from s2: "), s1(x, y)
>   return
>
> I am trying to debug:
> I press shift-F9 and F7. I end up in the interpreter where I enter s2
> (1, 2).
>
> >From that point if I press F7, the program restart all over.
> If I press Enter, the program gets out of debug mode.
>
> Please help me figuring out how I can use the dbugger. You are welcome
> to send a sound file if this is easier for you.
>
> Thanks
>
> ray
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Sorry, but which debugger are you referring to?

Also, note that you're printing s1(x,y) which is returning nothing. Not sure
why you want to do that, but just mentioning it.
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From leonhard.vogt at gmx.ch  Sat Aug 22 04:58:47 2009
From: leonhard.vogt at gmx.ch (Leonhard Vogt)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 10:58:47 +0200
Subject: Using 'apply' as a decorator, to define constants
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <86f8e$4a8fb348$544b15b8$5398@news.hispeed.ch>


> Why I've personally stopped using it: I've always had the impression
> that decorators were intended to provide a convenient and obvious way
> of augmenting functions. Having one that automatically executes the
> function at definition just runs counter to the behaviour I expect
> from a decorator. Especially when direct assignment... foo = foo
> () ...is a far more direct and clear way of expressing exactly what is
> happening.

if you have to define it yourself, you could call it store_result or
something else instead of apply.

@store_result
def tags():
     return result

Leonhard


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Aug 22 05:03:39 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 22 Aug 2009 09:03:39 GMT
Subject: Using 'apply' as a decorator, to define constants
References: 
	
	<3c82e522-e879-473b-b814-d9bcd9d905de@u20g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <001937d5$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 08:09:52 +0100, Jonathan Fine wrote:

> Jonathan Gardner wrote:
>> On Aug 21, 9:09 am, alex23  wrote:
>>> On Aug 21, 11:36 pm, Jonathan Fine  wrote:
>>>
>>> class ColourThing(object):
>>>     @apply
>>>     def rgb():
>>>         def fset(self, rgb):
>>>             self.r, self.g, self.b = rgb
>>>         def fget(self):
>>>             return (self.r, self.g, self.b)
>>>         return property(**locals())
>>>
>>>
>> This is brilliant. I am going to use this more often. I've all but
>> given up on property() since defining "get_foo", "get_bar", etc... has
>> been a pain and polluted the namespace.
> 
> 
> I think we can do better, with a little work.  And also solve the
> problem that 'apply' is no longer a builtin in Python3.

There's a standard idiom for that, using the property() built-in, for 
Python 2.6 or better.

Here's an example including a getter, setter, deleter and doc string, 
with no namespace pollution, imports, or helper functions or deprecated 
built-ins:

class ColourThing(object):
    @property
    def rgb(self):
        """Get and set the (red, green, blue) colours."""
        return (self.r, self.g, self.b)
    @rgb.setter
    def rgb(self, rgb):
        self.r, self.g, self.b = rgb
    @rgb.deleter
    def rgb(self):
        del self.r, self.g, self.b


 
-- 
Steven


From 71david at libero.it  Sat Aug 22 05:15:16 2009
From: 71david at libero.it (David)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 11:15:16 +0200
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: <2h2hwo918umw.1ihpdwjimzge8$.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	<14hj3v50qg77e$.1pk6i6w7h7q6s.dlg@40tude.net>
	
Message-ID: <8aeik0nwe7l6$.znpheg2zqrj3.dlg@40tude.net>

Il Fri, 21 Aug 2009 10:36:35 -0700 (PDT), Mensanator ha scritto:

> Aha! Then I WAS right after all. Switch to 3.1 and you'll
> soon be cured of that bad habit:
> 
>>>> 012 + 012
> SyntaxError: invalid token (, line 1)

I have tre (four) problems:

1) I am forced to use 2.5 since the production server has 2.5 installed.

2) Quite often I have to enter many zero-leading numbers and now my fingers
put a leading zero almost everywhere

3) I don't understand why useless but *harmless* things like algebrically
insignificant leading zeros should be *forbidden* and promoted to errors.

4) I still don't like the '0o..' notation because 0 (zero) and o (lowercase
O) glyphs appear very similar in many character sets. I'd prefer something
like '0c..' so it resembles the word 'oc' for 'octal'.

David


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Aug 22 05:18:52 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 22 Aug 2009 09:18:52 GMT
Subject: How to 'de-slashify' a string?
References: <4a8faa47$0$31283$607ed4bc@cv.net>
Message-ID: <00193b65$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 04:20:23 -0400, AK wrote:

> Hi, if I have a string '\\303\\266', how can I convert it to '\303\266'
> in a general way?

It's not clear what you mean.

Do you mean you have a string '\\303\\266', that is:

backslash backslash three zero three backslash backslash two six six

If so, then the simplest way is:

>>> s = r'\\303\\266'  # note the raw string
>>> len(s)
10
>>> print s
\\303\\266
>>> print s.replace('\\\\', '\\')
\303\266


Another possibility:

>>> s = '\\303\\266'  # this is not a raw string
>>> len(s)
8
>>> print s
\303\266

So s is:
backslash three zero three backslash two six six

and you don't need to do any more.


> The problem I'm running into is that I'm connecting with pygresql to a
> postgres database and when I get fields that are of 'char' type, I get
> them in unicode, but when I get fields of 'byte' type, I get the text
> with quoted slashes, e.g. '\303' becomes '\\303' and so on.

Is pygresql quoting the backslash, or do you just think it is quoting the 
backslashes? How do you know? E.g. if you have '\\303', what is the 
length of that? 4 or 5?


-- 
Steven


From 71david at libero.it  Sat Aug 22 05:27:32 2009
From: 71david at libero.it (David)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 11:27:32 +0200
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: 
	
	
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>

Il Fri, 21 Aug 2009 16:52:29 -0700 (PDT), James Harris ha scritto:


> 
>   0xff & 0x0e | 0b1101
>   16rff & 16r0e | 2r1101
> 
> Hmm. Maybe a symbol would be better than a letter.

What about 2_1011, 8_7621, 16_c26h or 2;1011, 8;7621, 16;c26h ?

David


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Sat Aug 22 05:29:53 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 02:29:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: convert date time
References: <9c8c445f0908211114x52989399m9dff884ccdd43ad0@mail.gmail.com> 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 22, 5:11?pm, Kushal Kumaran 
wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 11:44 PM, Ronn Ross wrote:
> > I'm new to python and I'm getting a date time from a field in the database
> > that looks like this:
> > 8/2/2009 8:36:16 AM (UTC)

> datetime.datetime.strptime() will give you a datetime object, which
> you can then format in a wide variety of ways using its strftime()
> method. ?Doesn't work with dates earlier than 1900, I believe.

The datetime module works from 0001-01-01 onwards; see
http://docs.python.org/library/datetime.html#datetime.MINYEAR

Other things worth mentioning:

(1) datetime.datetime.strptime() was introduced in Python 2.5; for
Python 2.3 and 2.4, use time.strptime() [which may not like years
before 1970] followed by datetime.datetime()

(2) as the input has 12-hour clock plus AM/PM, ensure that you use %I
instead of %H for the hour component; %H won't do what you expect if
your expectation is not based on reading the docs :-)


From jfine at pytex.org  Sat Aug 22 05:51:27 2009
From: jfine at pytex.org (Jonathan Fine)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 10:51:27 +0100
Subject: Using 'apply' as a decorator, to define constants
In-Reply-To: <001937d5$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 		<3c82e522-e879-473b-b814-d9bcd9d905de@u20g2000prg.googlegroups.com>	
	<001937d5$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> There's a standard idiom for that, using the property() built-in, for 
> Python 2.6 or better.
> 
> Here's an example including a getter, setter, deleter and doc string, 
> with no namespace pollution, imports, or helper functions or deprecated 
> built-ins:
> 
> class ColourThing(object):
>     @property
>     def rgb(self):
>         """Get and set the (red, green, blue) colours."""
>         return (self.r, self.g, self.b)
>     @rgb.setter
>     def rgb(self, rgb):
>         self.r, self.g, self.b = rgb
>     @rgb.deleter
>     def rgb(self):
>         del self.r, self.g, self.b


Sorry, Steve, but I don't understand this.  In fact, I don't even see 
how it can be made to work.

Unless an exception is raised,
     @wibble
     def wobble():
         pass
will make an assignment to wobble, namely the return value of wibble. 
So in your example above, there will be /three/ assignments to rgb. 
Unless you do some complicated introspection (and perhaps not even then) 
surely they will clobber each other.

I still prefer:
     @wibble.property
     def rgb():
         '''Red Green Blue color settings (property)'''

         def fset(rgb):
             self.r, self.g, self.b = rgb
         return locals()

-- 
Jonathan


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Aug 22 05:57:32 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 22 Aug 2009 09:57:32 GMT
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: <2h2hwo918umw.1ihpdwjimzge8$.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	<14hj3v50qg77e$.1pk6i6w7h7q6s.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	<8aeik0nwe7l6$.znpheg2zqrj3.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <00194475$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 11:15:16 +0200, David wrote:

> 3) I don't understand why useless but *harmless* things like
> algebrically insignificant leading zeros should be *forbidden* and
> promoted to errors.

The PEP covering this change says:

"There are still some strong feelings that '0123' should be allowed as a 
literal decimal in Python 3.0. If this is the right thing to do, this can 
easily be covered in an additional PEP. This proposal only takes the 
first step of making '0123' not be a valid octal number, for reasons 
covered in the rationale."

http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3127/



-- 
Steven


From ekayxu at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 06:03:27 2009
From: ekayxu at gmail.com (EK)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 03:03:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Dictionary from a list
References: 
	<7f368jF2it5a5U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	
	 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 20, 2:10?pm, Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
> Jan Kaliszewski wrote:
> > 20-08-2009 o 02:05:57 Jan Kaliszewski  wrote:
>
> >> Or probably better:
>
> >> ? ? ?from itertools import islice, izip
> >> ? ? ?dict(izip(islice(li, 0, None, 2), islice(li, 1, None, 2)))
>
> > Or similarly, perhaps more readable:
>
> > ? ? ?iterator = iter(li)
> > ? ? ?dict((iterator.next(), iterator.next()) for i in xrange(len(li)/2))
>
> I just can't stop posting this one:
>
> >>> from itertools import izip
> >>> it = iter([1,2,3,4,5,6])
> >>> dict(izip(it, it))
>
> {1: 2, 3: 4, 5: 6}
>
> I really tried, but yours drove me over the edge.
>
> Peter

dict(zip(*[iter(l)]*2))


From ak at nothere.com  Sat Aug 22 06:09:20 2009
From: ak at nothere.com (AK)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 06:09:20 -0400
Subject: How to 'de-slashify' a string?
In-Reply-To: <00193b65$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <4a8faa47$0$31283$607ed4bc@cv.net>
	<00193b65$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4a8fc3d1$0$22535$607ed4bc@cv.net>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 04:20:23 -0400, AK wrote:
> 
>> Hi, if I have a string '\\303\\266', how can I convert it to '\303\266'
>> in a general way?
> 
> It's not clear what you mean.
> 
> Do you mean you have a string '\\303\\266', that is:
> 
> backslash backslash three zero three backslash backslash two six six
> 
> If so, then the simplest way is:
> 
>>>> s = r'\\303\\266'  # note the raw string
>>>> len(s)
> 10
>>>> print s
> \\303\\266
>>>> print s.replace('\\\\', '\\')
> \303\266
> 
> 
> Another possibility:
> 
>>>> s = '\\303\\266'  # this is not a raw string
>>>> len(s)
> 8
>>>> print s
> \303\266
> 
> So s is:
> backslash three zero three backslash two six six
> 
> and you don't need to do any more.

Well, I need the string itself to become '\303\266', not to print
that way. In other words, when I do 'print s', it should display
unicode characters if my term is set to show them, instead of
showing \303\266.

> 
> 
>> The problem I'm running into is that I'm connecting with pygresql to a
>> postgres database and when I get fields that are of 'char' type, I get
>> them in unicode, but when I get fields of 'byte' type, I get the text
>> with quoted slashes, e.g. '\303' becomes '\\303' and so on.
> 
> Is pygresql quoting the backslash, or do you just think it is quoting the 
> backslashes? How do you know? E.g. if you have '\\303', what is the 
> length of that? 4 or 5?

Length is 4, and I need it to be length of 1. E.g.:

 >>> s = '\303'
 >>> s
'\xc3'
 >>> x = '\\303'
 >>> x
'\\303'
 >>> len(x)
4
 >>> len(s)
1


What I get from pygresql is x, what I need is s. Either by asking 
pygresql to do this or convert it afterwards. I can't do 
replace('\\303', '\303') because it can be any unicode character.

> 
> 


-- 
AK


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Sat Aug 22 06:32:52 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 12:32:52 +0200
Subject: Questions on XML
In-Reply-To: 
References: <51b22a8c-54de-484e-9b3c-9baeb4498f69@q40g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4a8fc954$0$31331$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>

Kee Nethery wrote:
> As a newbie, the thing that caused me trouble was importing a string
> into the XML parser.

That would be

	root_element = et.fromstring(some_string)

The parse() function is meant to parse from a file.


> from xml.etree import ElementTree as et
> theXmlDataTree = et.parse(StringIO.StringIO(theXmlString))
> 
> from xml.etree import ElementTree as et
> theXmlDataTree = et.ElementTree(et.XML(theXmlString))

You can use both, but I suspect parsing from StringIO to be slower than
parsing from the string directly. That's the case for lxml, at least.

Note that fromstring() behaves the same as XML(), but it reads better when
parsing from a string variable. XML() reads better when parsing from a
literal string.

Stefan


From vlastimil.brom at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 06:33:32 2009
From: vlastimil.brom at gmail.com (Vlastimil Brom)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 12:33:32 +0200
Subject: How to 'de-slashify' a string?
In-Reply-To: <4a8fc3d1$0$22535$607ed4bc@cv.net>
References: <4a8faa47$0$31283$607ed4bc@cv.net>
	<00193b65$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4a8fc3d1$0$22535$607ed4bc@cv.net>
Message-ID: <9fdb569a0908220333u41a662f0j7a898500df50a324@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/22 AK :
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 04:20:23 -0400, AK wrote:
>>
>>> Hi, if I have a string '\\303\\266', how can I convert it to '\303\266'
>>> in a general way?
>>
>> It's not clear what you mean.
>>
>> Do you mean you have a string '\\303\\266', that is:
>>
>> backslash backslash three zero three backslash backslash two six six
>>
>> If so, then the simplest way is:
>>
>>>>> s = r'\\303\\266' ?# note the raw string
>>>>> len(s)
>>
>> 10
>>>>>
>>>>> print s
>>
>> \\303\\266
>>>>>
>>>>> print s.replace('\\\\', '\\')
>>
>> \303\266
>>
>>
>> Another possibility:
>>
>>>>> s = '\\303\\266' ?# this is not a raw string
>>>>> len(s)
>>
>> 8
>>>>>
>>>>> print s
>>
>> \303\266
>>
>> So s is:
>> backslash three zero three backslash two six six
>>
>> and you don't need to do any more.
>
> Well, I need the string itself to become '\303\266', not to print
> that way. In other words, when I do 'print s', it should display
> unicode characters if my term is set to show them, instead of
> showing \303\266.
>
>>
>>
>>> The problem I'm running into is that I'm connecting with pygresql to a
>>> postgres database and when I get fields that are of 'char' type, I get
>>> them in unicode, but when I get fields of 'byte' type, I get the text
>>> with quoted slashes, e.g. '\303' becomes '\\303' and so on.
>>
>> Is pygresql quoting the backslash, or do you just think it is quoting the
>> backslashes? How do you know? E.g. if you have '\\303', what is the length
>> of that? 4 or 5?
>
> Length is 4, and I need it to be length of 1. E.g.:
>
>>>> s = '\303'
>>>> s
> '\xc3'
>>>> x = '\\303'
>>>> x
> '\\303'
>>>> len(x)
> 4
>>>> len(s)
> 1
>
>
> What I get from pygresql is x, what I need is s. Either by asking pygresql
> to do this or convert it afterwards. I can't do replace('\\303', '\303')
> because it can be any unicode character.
>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> AK
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


Hi,
do you mean something like

>>> u"\u0303"
u'\u0303'
>>> print u"\u0303"
?
    ? (dec.: 771)  (hex.: 0x303)   ? COMBINING TILDE (Mark, Nonspacing)
?

vbr


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Aug 22 06:45:13 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 22 Aug 2009 10:45:13 GMT
Subject: Using 'apply' as a decorator, to define constants
References: 
	
	<3c82e522-e879-473b-b814-d9bcd9d905de@u20g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	
	<001937d5$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <00194fa2$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 10:51:27 +0100, Jonathan Fine wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
>> There's a standard idiom for that, using the property() built-in, for
>> Python 2.6 or better.
>> 
>> Here's an example including a getter, setter, deleter and doc string,
>> with no namespace pollution, imports, or helper functions or deprecated
>> built-ins:
>> 
>> class ColourThing(object):
>>     @property
>>     def rgb(self):
>>         """Get and set the (red, green, blue) colours.""" return
>>         (self.r, self.g, self.b)
>>     @rgb.setter
>>     def rgb(self, rgb):
>>         self.r, self.g, self.b = rgb
>>     @rgb.deleter
>>     def rgb(self):
>>         del self.r, self.g, self.b
> 
> 
> Sorry, Steve, but I don't understand this.  In fact, I don't even see
> how it can be made to work.

Nevertheless, it does work, and it's not even magic. It's described (very 
briefly) in the docstring for property: help(property) will show it to 
you. More detail is here:

http://docs.python.org/library/functions.html#property

As for how it can work, it's not that difficult. All you need is for the 
setter and deleter methods to add an appropriate fset and fdel method to 
the property, then return it. Here's a toy example which may demonstrate 
the process (although unlike property, fget, fset and fdel don't have any 
special meanings):

class ToyProperty(object):
    def __init__(self, fget, fset=None, fdel=None, fdoc=None):
        if fdoc is None:
            fdoc = fget.__doc__
        self.fget = fget
        self.fset = fset
        self.fdel = fdel
    def getter(self, fget):
        self.fget = fget
        return self
    def setter(self, fset):
        self.fset = fset
        return self
    def deleter(self, fdel):
        self.fdel = fdel
        return self


> Unless an exception is raised,
>      @wibble
>      def wobble():
>          pass
> will make an assignment to wobble, namely the return value of wibble. So
> in your example above, there will be /three/ assignments to rgb.

Yes. A tiny inefficiency, which only occurs when the class is created. If 
you care about that, then (1) use the full form of property() where you 
supply the fget, fset and fdel arguments all at once, and (2) you really 
need to get out into the fresh air more *wink*



> Unless
> you do some complicated introspection (and perhaps not even then) surely
> they will clobber each other.

So what? The process is no weirder than:

x = ['fget']
x = x + ['fset']
x = x + ['fdel']



-- 
Steven


From ak at nothere.com  Sat Aug 22 06:52:53 2009
From: ak at nothere.com (AK)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 06:52:53 -0400
Subject: How to 'de-slashify' a string?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4a8faa47$0$31283$607ed4bc@cv.net>	<00193b65$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<4a8fc3d1$0$22535$607ed4bc@cv.net>
	
Message-ID: <4a8fce05$0$31285$607ed4bc@cv.net>

Vlastimil Brom wrote:
> 2009/8/22 AK :
>> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>> On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 04:20:23 -0400, AK wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi, if I have a string '\\303\\266', how can I convert it to '\303\266'
>>>> in a general way?
>>> It's not clear what you mean.
>>>
>>> Do you mean you have a string '\\303\\266', that is:
>>>
>>> backslash backslash three zero three backslash backslash two six six
>>>
>>> If so, then the simplest way is:
>>>
>>>>>> s = r'\\303\\266'  # note the raw string
>>>>>> len(s)
>>> 10
>>>>>> print s
>>> \\303\\266
>>>>>> print s.replace('\\\\', '\\')
>>> \303\266
>>>
>>>
>>> Another possibility:
>>>
>>>>>> s = '\\303\\266'  # this is not a raw string
>>>>>> len(s)
>>> 8
>>>>>> print s
>>> \303\266
>>>
>>> So s is:
>>> backslash three zero three backslash two six six
>>>
>>> and you don't need to do any more.
>> Well, I need the string itself to become '\303\266', not to print
>> that way. In other words, when I do 'print s', it should display
>> unicode characters if my term is set to show them, instead of
>> showing \303\266.
>>
>>>
>>>> The problem I'm running into is that I'm connecting with pygresql to a
>>>> postgres database and when I get fields that are of 'char' type, I get
>>>> them in unicode, but when I get fields of 'byte' type, I get the text
>>>> with quoted slashes, e.g. '\303' becomes '\\303' and so on.
>>> Is pygresql quoting the backslash, or do you just think it is quoting the
>>> backslashes? How do you know? E.g. if you have '\\303', what is the length
>>> of that? 4 or 5?
>> Length is 4, and I need it to be length of 1. E.g.:
>>
>>>>> s = '\303'
>>>>> s
>> '\xc3'
>>>>> x = '\\303'
>>>>> x
>> '\\303'
>>>>> len(x)
>> 4
>>>>> len(s)
>> 1
>>
>>
>> What I get from pygresql is x, what I need is s. Either by asking pygresql
>> to do this or convert it afterwards. I can't do replace('\\303', '\303')
>> because it can be any unicode character.
>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> AK
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
> 
> 
> Hi,
> do you mean something like
> 
>>>> u"\u0303"
> u'\u0303'
>>>> print u"\u0303"
> ?
>     ? (dec.: 771)  (hex.: 0x303)   ? COMBINING TILDE (Mark, Nonspacing)
> ?
> 
> vbr

Yes, something like that except that it starts out as '\\303\\266', and 
it's good enough for me if it turns into '\303\266', in fact that's 
rendered as one unicode char. In other words, when you do:

 >>> print "\\303\\266"
'\303\266'

I need that result to become a python string, i.e. the slashes need to
be converted from literal slashes to escape slashes.




-- 
AK


From marduk at letterboxes.org  Sat Aug 22 07:34:17 2009
From: marduk at letterboxes.org (Albert Hopkins)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 07:34:17 -0400
Subject: debugger
In-Reply-To: <71854089-ba76-40c8-8a81-e224711cf7c0@i8g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
References: <71854089-ba76-40c8-8a81-e224711cf7c0@i8g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1250940857.28537.0.camel@centar.nbk>

On Sat, 2009-08-22 at 01:17 -0700, flagmino wrote:
[...]
> I am trying to debug:
> I press shift-F9 and F7. I end up in the interpreter where I enter s2
> (1, 2).
> 
> >From that point if I press F7, the program restart all over.
> If I press Enter, the program gets out of debug mode.

Umm.. which debugger is that?  My debugger doesn't have shift-F9...

-a




From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Aug 22 07:40:33 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 22 Aug 2009 11:40:33 GMT
Subject: How to 'de-slashify' a string?
References: <4a8faa47$0$31283$607ed4bc@cv.net>
	<00193b65$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4a8fc3d1$0$22535$607ed4bc@cv.net>
Message-ID: <00195c9b$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 06:09:20 -0400, AK wrote:

>> Is pygresql quoting the backslash, or do you just think it is quoting
>> the backslashes? How do you know? E.g. if you have '\\303', what is the
>> length of that? 4 or 5?
> 
> Length is 4, and I need it to be length of 1. E.g.:
> 
>  >>> s = '\303'
>  >>> s
> '\xc3'
>  >>> x = '\\303'
>  >>> x
> '\\303'
>  >>> len(x)
> 4
>  >>> len(s)
> 1
> 
> 
> What I get from pygresql is x, what I need is s. Either by asking
> pygresql to do this or convert it afterwards. I can't do
> replace('\\303', '\303') because it can be any unicode character.


Use the 'unicode-escape' codec to decode the byte-string to Unicode.

>>> s = '\\303\\266'
>>> print s
\303\266
>>> s
'\\303\\266'
>>> len(s)
8
>>> u = s.decode('unicode-escape')
>>> print u
??
>>> u
u'\xc3\xb6'
>>> len(u)
2



-- 
Steven


From vlastimil.brom at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 07:43:22 2009
From: vlastimil.brom at gmail.com (Vlastimil Brom)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 13:43:22 +0200
Subject: How to 'de-slashify' a string?
In-Reply-To: <4a8fce05$0$31285$607ed4bc@cv.net>
References: <4a8faa47$0$31283$607ed4bc@cv.net>
	<00193b65$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4a8fc3d1$0$22535$607ed4bc@cv.net>
	
	<4a8fce05$0$31285$607ed4bc@cv.net>
Message-ID: <9fdb569a0908220443i47998230o115e6109835e3b67@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/22 AK :
> Vlastimil Brom wrote:
>>
>> 2009/8/22 AK :
>>>
>>> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 04:20:23 -0400, AK wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi, if I have a string '\\303\\266', how can I convert it to '\303\266'
>>>>> in a general way?
>>>>
>>>> It's not clear what you mean.
>>>>
>>>> Do you mean you have a string '\\303\\266', that is:
>>>>
>>>> backslash backslash three zero three backslash backslash two six six
>>>>
>>>> If so, then the simplest way is:
>>>>
>>>>>>> s = r'\\303\\266' ?# note the raw string
>>>>>>> len(s)
>>>>
>>>> 10
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> print s
>>>>
>>>> \\303\\266
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> print s.replace('\\\\', '\\')
>>>>
>>>> \303\266
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Another possibility:
>>>>
>>>>>>> s = '\\303\\266' ?# this is not a raw string
>>>>>>> len(s)
>>>>
>>>> 8
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> print s
>>>>
>>>> \303\266
>>>>
>>>> So s is:
>>>> backslash three zero three backslash two six six
>>>>
>>>> and you don't need to do any more.
>>>
>>> Well, I need the string itself to become '\303\266', not to print
>>> that way. In other words, when I do 'print s', it should display
>>> unicode characters if my term is set to show them, instead of
>>> showing \303\266.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The problem I'm running into is that I'm connecting with pygresql to a
>>>>> postgres database and when I get fields that are of 'char' type, I get
>>>>> them in unicode, but when I get fields of 'byte' type, I get the text
>>>>> with quoted slashes, e.g. '\303' becomes '\\303' and so on.
>>>>
>>>> Is pygresql quoting the backslash, or do you just think it is quoting
>>>> the
>>>> backslashes? How do you know? E.g. if you have '\\303', what is the
>>>> length
>>>> of that? 4 or 5?
>>>
>>> Length is 4, and I need it to be length of 1. E.g.:
>>>
>>>>>> s = '\303'
>>>>>> s
>>>
>>> '\xc3'
>>>>>>
>>>>>> x = '\\303'
>>>>>> x
>>>
>>> '\\303'
>>>>>>
>>>>>> len(x)
>>>
>>> 4
>>>>>>
>>>>>> len(s)
>>>
>>> 1
>>>
>>>
>>> What I get from pygresql is x, what I need is s. Either by asking
>>> pygresql
>>> to do this or convert it afterwards. I can't do replace('\\303', '\303')
>>> because it can be any unicode character.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> AK
>>> --
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>>
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>> do you mean something like
>>
>>>>> u"\u0303"
>>
>> u'\u0303'
>>>>>
>>>>> print u"\u0303"
>>
>> ?
>> ? ?? (dec.: 771) ?(hex.: 0x303) ? ? COMBINING TILDE (Mark, Nonspacing)
>> ?
>>
>> vbr
>
> Yes, something like that except that it starts out as '\\303\\266', and it's
> good enough for me if it turns into '\303\266', in fact that's rendered as
> one unicode char. In other words, when you do:
>
>>>> print "\\303\\266"
> '\303\266'
>
> I need that result to become a python string, i.e. the slashes need to
> be converted from literal slashes to escape slashes.
>
>
>
>
> --
> AK
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

Not sure, whether it is the right way of handling the such text data, but maybe:

>>> decoded = '\\303\\266'.decode("string_escape")
>>> decoded
'\xc3\xb6'
>>> print decoded
??
>>> print '\303\266'
??
>>>

It might be an IDLE issue, but it still isn't one unicode glyph.

I guess, you have to ensure, that the input data is valid and the
right encoding is used.

hth
  vbr


From jfine at pytex.org  Sat Aug 22 08:04:02 2009
From: jfine at pytex.org (Jonathan Fine)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 13:04:02 +0100
Subject: Using 'apply' as a decorator, to define constants
In-Reply-To: <00194fa2$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 		<3c82e522-e879-473b-b814-d9bcd9d905de@u20g2000prg.googlegroups.com>		<001937d5$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	
	<00194fa2$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 10:51:27 +0100, Jonathan Fine wrote:
> 
>> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>
>>> There's a standard idiom for that, using the property() built-in, for
>>> Python 2.6 or better.
>>>
>>> Here's an example including a getter, setter, deleter and doc string,
>>> with no namespace pollution, imports, or helper functions or deprecated
>>> built-ins:
>>>
>>> class ColourThing(object):
>>>     @property
>>>     def rgb(self):
>>>         """Get and set the (red, green, blue) colours.""" return
>>>         (self.r, self.g, self.b)
>>>     @rgb.setter
>>>     def rgb(self, rgb):
>>>         self.r, self.g, self.b = rgb
>>>     @rgb.deleter
>>>     def rgb(self):
>>>         del self.r, self.g, self.b
>>
>> Sorry, Steve, but I don't understand this.  In fact, I don't even see
>> how it can be made to work.
> 
> Nevertheless, it does work, and it's not even magic. It's described (very 
> briefly) in the docstring for property: help(property) will show it to 
> you. More detail is here:
> 
> http://docs.python.org/library/functions.html#property

My apologies.  I wasn't up to date with my Python versions:

| Changed in version 2.6: The getter, setter, and deleter
| attributes were added.

I was still thinking Python2.5 (or perhaps earlier?).  I still don't 
like it.  All those repetitions of 'rgb'.

-- 
Jonathan


From lists at cheimes.de  Sat Aug 22 08:35:21 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:35:21 +0200
Subject: grokproject and zope.security==3.4.1 error
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Manuel A. Iglesias Abbatemarco schrieb:
> I will apprreciate if someone could help me with the following error.
> 
> I a trying to create a grokproject application in my debian 5.0 box,
> the following is the output after executing # grokproject Sample
> command.
> 
> Getting distribution for 'zope.security==3.4.1'.
> 
> src/zope/security/_proxy.c:19:20: error: Python.h: No such file or directory


sudo apt-get install python2.4-dev

Have fun :)

Christian



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Aug 22 08:55:39 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 13:55:39 +0100
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: 
References: 			<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4A8FEACB.7030202@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 16:52:29 -0700 (PDT), James Harris
>  declaimed the following in
> gmane.comp.python.general:
> 
>> So you are saying that Smalltalk has r where
>> r is presumably for radix? That's maybe best of all. It preserves the
>> syntactic requirement of starting a number with a digit and seems to
>> have greatest flexibility. Not sure how good it looks but it's
>> certainly not bad.
>>
>>   0xff & 0x0e | 0b1101
>>   16rff & 16r0e | 2r1101
>>
>> Hmm. Maybe a symbol would be better than a letter.
>>
> 	Or Ada's	16#FF#, 8#377#...
> 
'#' starts a comment, so that's right out! :-)

> 	I forget if DEC/VMS FORTRAN or Xerox Sigma FORTRAN used x'FF' or
> 'FF'x, and o'377' or '377'o



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Aug 22 08:55:42 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 13:55:42 +0100
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: <1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
References: 			<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <4A8FEACE.9060503@mrabarnett.plus.com>

David wrote:
> Il Fri, 21 Aug 2009 16:52:29 -0700 (PDT), James Harris ha scritto:
> 
> 
>>   0xff & 0x0e | 0b1101
>>   16rff & 16r0e | 2r1101
>>
>> Hmm. Maybe a symbol would be better than a letter.
> 
> What about 2_1011, 8_7621, 16_c26h or 2;1011, 8;7621, 16;c26h ?
> 
'_': what if in the future we want to allow them in numbers for clarity?

';': used to separate multiple statements on a line (but not used that
often).


From catalinfest at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 09:14:25 2009
From: catalinfest at gmail.com (catafest)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 06:14:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: PIL and Python
References: 
	<9683190f-3c99-49d6-93d1-d8966d38d7a6@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> 
	 
	 
	<5df342cf-c742-42d6-bc8c-97a3c44a0816@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: 

If I make it work, i will send the solution. Thank you !



From stef.mientki at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 09:40:51 2009
From: stef.mientki at gmail.com (Stef Mientki)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 15:40:51 +0200
Subject: debugger
In-Reply-To: <1250940857.28537.0.camel@centar.nbk>
References: <71854089-ba76-40c8-8a81-e224711cf7c0@i8g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<1250940857.28537.0.camel@centar.nbk>
Message-ID: <4A8FF563.5070003@gmail.com>

Albert Hopkins wrote:
> On Sat, 2009-08-22 at 01:17 -0700, flagmino wrote:
> [...]
>   
>> I am trying to debug:
>> I press shift-F9 and F7. I end up in the interpreter where I enter s2
>> (1, 2).
>>
>> >From that point if I press F7, the program restart all over.
>> If I press Enter, the program gets out of debug mode.
>>     
>
> Umm.. which debugger is that?  My debugger doesn't have shift-F9...
>   
then you probably not working under windows ...

Stef


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Sat Aug 22 09:52:44 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 15:52:44 +0200
Subject: How to 'de-slashify' a string?
References: <4a8faa47$0$31283$607ed4bc@cv.net>
	<00193b65$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4a8fc3d1$0$22535$607ed4bc@cv.net>
	
	<4a8fce05$0$31285$607ed4bc@cv.net>
	
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Vlastimil Brom  (VB) wrote:

>>>>> decoded = '\\303\\266'.decode("string_escape")
>>>>> decoded
>VB> '\xc3\xb6'
>>>>> print decoded
>VB> ??
>>>>> print '\303\266'
>VB> ??
>>>>> 

>VB> It might be an IDLE issue, but it still isn't one unicode glyph.

>VB> I guess, you have to ensure, that the input data is valid and the
>VB> right encoding is used.

>>> decoded = '\\303\\266'.decode("string_escape").decode('utf-8')
>>> decoded
u'\xf6'
>>> print decoded
?

-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Sat Aug 22 10:07:52 2009
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 09:07:52 -0500
Subject: debugger
In-Reply-To: <4A8FF563.5070003@gmail.com>
References: <71854089-ba76-40c8-8a81-e224711cf7c0@i8g2000pro.googlegroups.com>	<1250940857.28537.0.camel@centar.nbk>
	<4A8FF563.5070003@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A8FFBB8.4070706@tim.thechases.com>

Stef Mientki wrote:
> Albert Hopkins wrote:
>> On Sat, 2009-08-22 at 01:17 -0700, flagmino wrote:
>> [...]
>>   
>>> I am trying to debug:
>>> I press shift-F9 and F7. I end up in the interpreter where I enter s2
>>> (1, 2).
>>>
>>> >From that point if I press F7, the program restart all over.
>>> If I press Enter, the program gets out of debug mode.
>>>     
>> Umm.. which debugger is that?  My debugger doesn't have shift-F9...
>>   
> then you probably not working under windows ...

Even under Windows, you still have to specify your environment. 
In both Win32 and *nix I use pdb as my debugger and shift+F9 does 
nothing ;-)

So the question is what is the debugger the OP is using?  Because 
it's not pdb. :)

-tkc





From grante at visi.com  Sat Aug 22 10:08:09 2009
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 09:08:09 -0500
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: <2h2hwo918umw.1ihpdwjimzge8$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<6a523329-3287-4271-ba37-7be450cfc5f6@d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4a8edc29$0$1599$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-22, Dennis Lee Bieber  wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 10:45:51 -0700, John Nagle 
> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>
>> 
>>      And it's over.  We can finally dispense with octal by default.
>>
> 	I've not looked at modern Intel processor format, but if there are
> folks still using variants of 8080 (8051?) and Z-80, Octal still works
> nice for op-codes... I don't recall the exact values, but the MOV
> instruction was something like '1SD'o, where S and D are three bit
> register specifications (A, B, C, D, E, H, L, and Memory as I recall)

The Heathkit's terminal I have uses a Z80, and IIRC, the
assembly listings were in split-octal [a 16 bit word ranges
from 000 000 to 377 377]. Stuff for the PDP-11 (which also had
instruction fields 3 bits wide) was always in octal as well.
The PDP-11 is pretty much dead, but I think there are embedded
Z80 derivitives still in use.

-- 
Grant



From ebonak at hotmail.com  Sat Aug 22 10:25:37 2009
From: ebonak at hotmail.com (Esmail)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 10:25:37 -0400
Subject: your favorite debugging tool?
Message-ID: 

Hi all,

What is your favorite tool to help you debug your
code? I've been getting along with 'print' statements
but that is getting old and somewhat cumbersome.

I'm primarily interested in utilities for Linux (but
if you have recommendations for Windows, I'll take
them too :)

I use emacs as my primary development environment, FWIW.
Someone mentioned winpdb .. anyone have experience/comments
on this? Others?

Thanks,
Esmail



From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Sat Aug 22 10:37:08 2009
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 07:37:08 -0700
Subject: debugger
In-Reply-To: <71854089-ba76-40c8-8a81-e224711cf7c0@i8g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
References: <71854089-ba76-40c8-8a81-e224711cf7c0@i8g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

flagmino wrote:
> To get familiar with the debugger, I have loaded this program:
> 
> import math
> 
> def s1(x, y):
>    a = (x + y)
>    print("Answer from s1"), a
>    return
> 
> def s2(x, y):
>    b = (x - y)
>    print("This comes from s2"), b
>    #print z
>    print("call from s2: "), s1(x, y)
>    return
> 
> I am trying to debug:
> I press shift-F9 and F7. I end up in the interpreter where I enter s2
> (1, 2).
> 
> From that point if I press F7, the program restart all over.
> If I press Enter, the program gets out of debug mode.
> 
> Please help me figuring out how I can use the dbugger. You are welcome
> to send a sound file if this is easier for you.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> ray
You need to tell us:
     Which Python version (e.g. 2.6.2)
     Which "platform" (hardware & OS) (e.g. 64-bit AMD FreeBSD)
     Which debugger (e.g. Idle)
     What you expected to happen that did not, and why you expected it.
     or What happened and why you did not expect it.

Often you can lots of this information by going to your debugger window 
and doing Help // About, and go to your Python environment and type:
     import sys
     print sys.version # cut the results and paste in your message as
"sys.version says, "'2.6.2 (r262:71605, ...'"  [don't do dots yourself]

To understand more of why we need this on every question, see:
http://www.mikeash.com/getting_answers.html
or google for "smart questions".

--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Aug 22 10:49:22 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 22 Aug 2009 07:49:22 -0700
Subject: your favorite debugging tool?
References: 
Message-ID: 

In article ,
Esmail   wrote:
>
>What is your favorite tool to help you debug your code? I've been
>getting along with 'print' statements but that is getting old and
>somewhat cumbersome.

Despite the fact that I've been using Python for more than a decade,
print is still my mainstay (or possibly logging to a file).
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I support family values -- Addams family values" --www.nancybuttons.com


From davea at ieee.org  Sat Aug 22 10:51:08 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 10:51:08 -0400
Subject: Blank Line at Program Exit
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A9005DC.1050906@ieee.org>

Steven Woody wrote:
> Hi,
> Any python program, even that does absolutely nothing in the code, will
> cause a blank line printed out when the program exit.  What's the reason?
>  Thanks.
>
>
>   
I think the "blank line" is coming from your shell.  In Windows, I 
believe the shell emits a newline after running a program, probably to 
make sure the prompt starts in column 0.

Note that if your python program writes a partial line to stdout, this 
will "finish" the line before giving you the next prompt.  So the line 
isn't necessarily blank.

DaveA


From marduk at letterboxes.org  Sat Aug 22 10:59:55 2009
From: marduk at letterboxes.org (Albert Hopkins)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 10:59:55 -0400
Subject: Decompressing gzip over FTP
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <1250953195.7115.5.camel@centar.nbk>

On Fri, 2009-08-21 at 18:15 -0700, SeanMon wrote:
> Is there a way to decompress a large (2GB) gzipped file being
> retrieved over FTP on the fly?
> 
> I'm using ftplib.FTP to open a connection to a remote server, and I
> have had no success connecting retrbinary to gzip without using an
> intermediate file.
> 
> Is there any way to get a file-like object describing the remote file,
> or a way to utilize gzip's decompression without providing it a file-
> like object?

I tried to solve your problem with StringIO and .truncate().  I also
tried to solve it with us.pipe(), but was unsuccessful with either.  The
problem is the gzip module uses .seek() which you can't do with pipes...

You could probably get away with just using the compress module (as zlib
does) but you will have to deal with handling the headers, footers, CRC
checks, etc. on your own.

The cheap alternative is to just have your script open a pipe to "gunzip
-c" and read/write from that pipe.

hth,
-a




From ryniek90 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 11:00:41 2009
From: ryniek90 at gmail.com (ryniek90)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 17:00:41 +0200
Subject: TypeError while checking for permissions with os.access() on
	windows xp
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A900819.8010702@gmail.com>


> First, some nitpicking: Include the whole traceback when posting about
> errors please.  Don't write "if some_boolean_expression != True:"
> instead prefer "if not some_boolean_expression:".  Also, in your code
> "except (Except), ex: return ex" the parentheses are redundant,
> there's no "Except" Exception (unless you created one yourself) and
> why are you catching and returning the Exception object?  (Also,
> what's that "sys.exit(0)" doing in there? And why exit with 0 if there
> was a problem? Exit code 0 means "no problem".)
>
>
> Second, from what you've said backup_dest must be None:
>
>   
>>>> import os
>>>> os.access(None, os.W_OK)
>>>>         
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "", line 1, in 
>     os.access(None, os.W_OK)
> TypeError: coercing to Unicode: need string or buffer, NoneType found
>
>   

No, backup_dest is destination for backup. It's this variable: 
*backup_dest = self.__backup_dest* .
*self.__backup_dest = os.getenv('HOME')*  -  as you can see, 
self.__backup_dest is a reference to the home directory which is a 
string. Then backup_dest is a reference to the variable 
self.__backup_dest. But that second reference seems to be recognised as 
a NoneType ??

I'm using optparse in my script (that code for checking for permission 
is a part of my backup script).

Maybe i post my complete code:
"
#!/usr/bin/env python
#-*- coding: utf-8 -*-
#MyBackUper

import os, sys, tarfile
import datetime
from optparse import OptionParser


class Except(Exception):
    pass


class Packer(Except):

    def __init__(self):
        self.__backup_dest = os.getenv('HOME')
        __current_time = datetime.datetime.today().strftime('%Y-%m-%d 
%H:%M:%S')
        Except.__init__(self)

    def doc_note(self):

        print """

        DOCUMENTATION

        'Backuper' is a script for doing backups.
        You can backup with it single files or whole directories.
        For available commands type 'backuper.py -h' or 'backuper.py 
--help'.

        Using it is simple:

        - to backup single file, type:
        'backuper.py -f FILE_PATH BCKP_NAME [DEST_PATH]',
        where 'FILE_PATH' is exact path to prefered file which you want 
to backup and 'BCKP_NAME' is the name for backup output file. Default 
'DEST_PATH' is placed in home directory, it can't be changed. 
'BCKP_NAME' must be given;

        - to backup whole directory, type:
        'backuper.py -d DIR_PATH BCKP_NAME [DEST_PATH]', where 
'DIR_PATH' is exact path to prefered directory, which you want to backup 
and 'BCKP_NAME' is the name for backup output file. Default 'DEST_PATH' 
is placed in home directory, it can't be changed. 'BCKP_NAME' must be given;

        """

    def __check_set_perm(self, rd_obj_path, backup_dest):

        try:

            if os.path.exists(rd_obj_path):
                if not os.access(rd_obj_path, os.R_OK):
                    print "Have no permissions on [%s] for reading 
operation.\nTrying to set them..." % os.path.split(rd_obj_path)[1]
                    if not os.path.isdir(rd_obj_path):
                        os.chmod(rd_obj_path, stat.S_IREAD)
                    else:
                        for root, dirs, files in os.walk(rd_obj_path):
                            for f in files:
                                os.chmod(os.path.join(root, f), 
stat.S_IREAD)
                    print "Get permissions for reading on [%s] 
successfully." % os.path.split(rd_obj_path)[1]
                else:
                    print "Have permissions on [%s] for reading." % 
os.path.split(rd_obj_path)[1]

                if not os.access(backup_dest, os.W_OK):
                    print "Have no permissions on [%s] for writing 
operation.\nTrying to set them..." % os.path.split(backup_dest)[1]
                    os.chmod(backup_dest, stat.S_IWRITE)
                    print "Get permissions for reading on [%s] 
successfully." % os.path.split(backup_dest)[1]
                else:
                    print "Have permissions on [%s] for writing." % 
os.path.split(backup_dest)[1]
            else:
                return "Can't find specified path - [%s]." % rd_obj_path
                sys.exit(1)

        except (Except), ex:
            return ex


    def backup_file(self, rd_obj_path, bkp_obj_name):

        try:

            if os.name == "nt":
                rd_obj_path = rd_obj_path.replace('~/', '%s\\' % 
os.getenv('HOME')).replace('\\', '\\\\')
                backup_dest = self.__backup_dest
                print "Checking permissions for reading and writing..."
                self.__check_set_perm(rd_obj_path, backup_dest)
                backup_obj = tarfile.open("%s\\%s(%s).tar.bz2" % 
(backup_dest, bkp_obj_name, __current_time), 'w:bz2')

            else:
                rd_obj_path = rd_obj_path.replace('~/', '%s/' % 
os.getenv('HOME'))
                backup_dest = self.__backup_dest
                print "Checking permissions for reading and writing..."
                self.__check_set_perm(rd_obj_path, backup_dest)
                backup_obj = tarfile.open("%s/%s(%s).tar.bz2" % 
(backup_dest, bkp_obj_name, __current_time), 'w:bz2')

            print "Preparing for backup [%s]..." % 
os.path.split(rd_obj_path)[1]
            print "Starting backup..."
            read_obj = open(rd_obj_path, 'rb')
            print "Now adding [%s]..." % os.path.split(rd_obj_path)[1]
            backup_obj.add(read_obj.read())
            read_obj.close(), backup_obj.close()
            print "Backup [%s] made successfully. :-)" % 
os.path.split(backup_dest)[1]

        except (Except), ex:
            return ex

    def backup_dir(self, rd_obj_path, bkp_obj_name):

        try:

            if os.name == "nt":
                rd_obj_path = rd_obj_path.replace('~/', '%s\\' % 
os.getenv('HOME')).replace('\\', '\\\\')
                backup_dest = self.__backup_dest
                print "Checking permissions for reading and writing..."
                self.__check_set_perm(rd_obj_path, backup_dest)
                backup_obj = tarfile.open("%s\\%s(%s).tar.bz2" % 
(backup_dest, bkp_obj_name, __current_time), 'w:bz2')

            else:
                rd_obj_path = rd_obj_path.replace('~/', '%s/' % 
os.getenv('HOME'))
                backup_dest = self.__backup_dest
                print "Checking permissions for reading and writing..."
                self.__check_set_perm(rd_obj_path, backup_dest)
                backup_obj = tarfile.open("%s/%s(%s).tar.bz2" % 
(backup_dest, bkp_obj_name, __current_time), 'w:bz2')

            print "Preparing for backup '%s'..." % 
os.path.split(rd_obj_path)[1]
            print "Gathering files for backup..."
            path_list = []
            for root, dirs, files in os.walk(rd_obj_path):
                for f in files:
                    path_list.append(os.path.join(root, f))
            print "Starting backup..."
            for p in path_list:
                fl = open(p, 'rb')
                print "Now adding [%s] from [%s] directory" % 
(os.path.split(p)[1], os.path.split(p)[0])
                backup_obj.add(fl.read())
                fl.close()
                print "Added [%s] successfully" % os.path.split(p)[1]
            backup_obj.close()
            print "Backup [%s] made successfully. :-)" % 
os.path.split(backup_dest)[1]

        except (Except), ex:
            return ex


class ParseIt(object):

    def __init__(self):
        self.__initial = True

    _usage = "usage: %prog [options] Arg1 Arg2"
    parser = OptionParser(_usage)
    parser.add_option("-f", "--file", action="store", type="string", 
dest="filename", help="Make backup of a single file", metavar="FILE_PATH 
CKP_NAME", nargs=2)
    parser.add_option("-d", "--dir", action="store", type="string", 
dest="dirname", help="Recursively backup a whole directory", 
metavar="DIR_PATH BCKP_NAME", nargs=2)
    parser.add_option("-i", "--info", dest="info_note", 
action="store_true", help="Show script's documentation")

    (options, args) = parser.parse_args()

def main_meth():
    paq = Packer()
    pars = ParseIt()
    if pars.options.filename:
        paq.backup_file(pars.options.filename[0], pars.options.filename[1])
    elif pars.options.dirname:
        paq.backup_dir(pars.options.dirname[0], pars.options.dirname[1])
    elif pars.options.info_note:
        paq.doc_note()


if __name__ == "__main__":
    main_meth()

"




From davea at ieee.org  Sat Aug 22 11:15:32 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 11:15:32 -0400
Subject: debugger
In-Reply-To: <4A8FF563.5070003@gmail.com>
References: <71854089-ba76-40c8-8a81-e224711cf7c0@i8g2000pro.googlegroups.com>	<1250940857.28537.0.camel@centar.nbk>
	<4A8FF563.5070003@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A900B94.6060607@ieee.org>

Stef Mientki wrote:
> 
Albert 
> Hopkins wrote:
>> On Sat, 2009-08-22 at 01:17 -0700, flagmino wrote:
>> [...]
>>  
>>> I am trying to debug:
>>> I press shift-F9 and F7. I end up in the interpreter where I enter s2
>>> (1, 2).
>>>
>>> >From that point if I press F7, the program restart all over.
>>> If I press Enter, the program gets out of debug mode.
>>>     
>>
>> Umm.. which debugger is that?  My debugger doesn't have shift-F9...
>>   
> then you probably not working under windows ...
>
> Stef
>
> 

>
That doesn't help.  If you want help, describe the environment.  Python 
version, OS, and what command you did to start this "debugger."  Or at 
least its name.

The Windows debugger is called Debug.exe, and it doesn't accept 
Shift-F9.  But I doubt the OP was talking about that one.  Komodo 
doesn't seem to do anything with Shift-F9 either.

PythonWin doesn't seem to, nor does Idle.   Most of these could be 
customized, but that's besides the point.

In version:  2.6.2 (r262:71600, Apr 21 2009, 15:05:37) [MSC v.1500 32 
bit (Intel)],  running under XPsp3, with win32 extensions loaded, there 
are a bunch of files called debug or debugger.  Which one might be meant 
here?

Or perhaps the debugger was part of NetBeans, or Eclipse, or some other IDE?

DaveA


From nitebirdz at sacredchaos.com  Sat Aug 22 11:25:16 2009
From: nitebirdz at sacredchaos.com (Nitebirdz)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 17:25:16 +0200
Subject: Blank Line at Program Exit
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <20090822152515.GC10584@sevilla.sacredchaos.com>

On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 01:31:14PM +0800, Steven Woody wrote:
> Hi,
> Any python program, even that does absolutely nothing in the code, will
> cause a blank line printed out when the program exit.  What's the reason?
>  Thanks.
> 

Chances are it is related to whichever operating system and/or shell you
are using.  For instance, this is taken from a system running Ubuntu
Linux 8.04:

-------------------------------------------------
laptop:$ cat hello.py
#!/usr/bin/env python

print "Hello, there!"
laptop:$ ./hello.py
Hello, there!
laptop:$ cat nothing.py 
#!/usr/bin/env python

laptop:$ ./nothing.py 
laptop:$ 
-------------------------------------------------


As you can see, no blank line was printed out. 



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Aug 22 11:49:30 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 16:49:30 +0100
Subject: debugger
In-Reply-To: <4A900B94.6060607@ieee.org>
References: <71854089-ba76-40c8-8a81-e224711cf7c0@i8g2000pro.googlegroups.com>	<1250940857.28537.0.camel@centar.nbk>	<4A8FF563.5070003@gmail.com>
	<4A900B94.6060607@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <4A90138A.4000905@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Dave Angel wrote:
> Stef Mientki wrote:
>> 
Albert 
>> Hopkins wrote:
>>> On Sat, 2009-08-22 at 01:17 -0700, flagmino wrote:
>>> [...]
>>>  
>>>> I am trying to debug:
>>>> I press shift-F9 and F7. I end up in the interpreter where I enter s2
>>>> (1, 2).
>>>>
>>>> >From that point if I press F7, the program restart all over.
>>>> If I press Enter, the program gets out of debug mode.
>>>>     
>>>
>>> Umm.. which debugger is that?  My debugger doesn't have shift-F9...
>>>   
>> then you probably not working under windows ...
>>
>> Stef
>>
>> 

>>
> That doesn't help.  If you want help, describe the environment.  Python 
> version, OS, and what command you did to start this "debugger."  Or at 
> least its name.
> 
> The Windows debugger is called Debug.exe, and it doesn't accept 
> Shift-F9.  But I doubt the OP was talking about that one.  Komodo 
> doesn't seem to do anything with Shift-F9 either.
> 
> PythonWin doesn't seem to, nor does Idle.   Most of these could be 
> customized, but that's besides the point.
> 
> In version:  2.6.2 (r262:71600, Apr 21 2009, 15:05:37) [MSC v.1500 32 
> bit (Intel)],  running under XPsp3, with win32 extensions loaded, there 
> are a bunch of files called debug or debugger.  Which one might be meant 
> here?
> 
> Or perhaps the debugger was part of NetBeans, or Eclipse, or some other 
> IDE?
> 
It might be winpdb, although I haven't been able to confirm it.


From davea at ieee.org  Sat Aug 22 13:36:12 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 13:36:12 -0400
Subject: TypeError while checking for permissions with os.access() on
	windows xp
In-Reply-To: <4A900819.8010702@gmail.com>
References: 
	<4A900819.8010702@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A902C8C.4070108@ieee.org>

ryniek90 wrote:
> 

>> First, some nitpicking: Include the whole traceback when posting about
>> errors please.  Don't write "if some_boolean_expression != True:"
>> instead prefer "if not some_boolean_expression:".  Also, in your code
>> "except (Except), ex: return ex" the parentheses are redundant,
>> there's no "Except" Exception (unless you created one yourself) and
>> why are you catching and returning the Exception object?  (Also,
>> what's that "sys.exit(0)" doing in there? And why exit with 0 if there
>> was a problem? Exit code 0 means "no problem".)
>>
>>
>> Second, from what you've said backup_dest must be None:
>>
>>  
>>>>> import os
>>>>> os.access(None, os.W_OK)
>>>>>         
>>
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "", line 1, in 
>>     os.access(None, os.W_OK)
>> TypeError: coercing to Unicode: need string or buffer, NoneType found
>>
>>   
>
> No, backup_dest is destination for backup. It's this variable: 
> *backup_dest = self.__backup_dest* .
> *self.__backup_dest = os.getenv('HOME')*  -  as you can see, 
> self.__backup_dest is a reference to the home directory which is a 
> string. Then backup_dest is a reference to the variable 
> self.__backup_dest. But that second reference seems to be recognised 
> as a NoneType ??
>
> I'm using optparse in my script (that code for checking for permission 
> is a part of my backup script).
>
> Maybe i post my complete code:
> "
> #!/usr/bin/env python
> #-*- coding: utf-8 -*-
> #MyBackUper
>
> import os, sys, tarfile
> import datetime
> from optparse import OptionParser
>
>
> class Except(Exception):
>    pass
>
>
> class Packer(Except):
>
>    def __init__(self):
>        self.__backup_dest = os.getenv('HOME')
>        __current_time = datetime.datetime.today().strftime('%Y-%m-%d 
> %H:%M:%S')
>        Except.__init__(self)
>
>    def doc_note(self):
>
>        print """
>
>        DOCUMENTATION
>
>        'Backuper' is a script for doing backups.
>        You can backup with it single files or whole directories.
>        For available commands type 'backuper.py -h' or 'backuper.py 
> --help'.
>
>        Using it is simple:
>
>        - to backup single file, type:
>        'backuper.py -f FILE_PATH BCKP_NAME [DEST_PATH]',
>        where 'FILE_PATH' is exact path to prefered file which you want 
> to backup and 'BCKP_NAME' is the name for backup output file. Default 
> 'DEST_PATH' is placed in home directory, it can't be changed. 
> 'BCKP_NAME' must be given;
>
>        - to backup whole directory, type:
>        'backuper.py -d DIR_PATH BCKP_NAME [DEST_PATH]', where 
> 'DIR_PATH' is exact path to prefered directory, which you want to 
> backup and 'BCKP_NAME' is the name for backup output file. Default 
> 'DEST_PATH' is placed in home directory, it can't be changed. 
> 'BCKP_NAME' must be given;
>
>        """
>
>    def __check_set_perm(self, rd_obj_path, backup_dest):
>
>        try:
>
>            if os.path.exists(rd_obj_path):
>                if not os.access(rd_obj_path, os.R_OK):
>                    print "Have no permissions on [%s] for reading 
> operation.\nTrying to set them..." % os.path.split(rd_obj_path)[1]
>                    if not os.path.isdir(rd_obj_path):
>                        os.chmod(rd_obj_path, stat.S_IREAD)
>                    else:
>                        for root, dirs, files in os.walk(rd_obj_path):
>                            for f in files:
>                                os.chmod(os.path.join(root, f), 
> stat.S_IREAD)
>                    print "Get permissions for reading on [%s] 
> successfully." % os.path.split(rd_obj_path)[1]
>                else:
>                    print "Have permissions on [%s] for reading." % 
> os.path.split(rd_obj_path)[1]
>
>                if not os.access(backup_dest, os.W_OK):
>                    print "Have no permissions on [%s] for writing 
> operation.\nTrying to set them..." % os.path.split(backup_dest)[1]
>                    os.chmod(backup_dest, stat.S_IWRITE)
>                    print "Get permissions for reading on [%s] 
> successfully." % os.path.split(backup_dest)[1]
>                else:
>                    print "Have permissions on [%s] for writing." % 
> os.path.split(backup_dest)[1]
>            else:
>                return "Can't find specified path - [%s]." % rd_obj_path
>                sys.exit(1)
>
>        except (Except), ex:
>            return ex
>
>
>    def backup_file(self, rd_obj_path, bkp_obj_name):
>
>        try:
>
>            if os.name == "nt":
>                rd_obj_path = rd_obj_path.replace('~/', '%s\\' % 
> os.getenv('HOME')).replace('\\', '\\\\')
>                backup_dest = self.__backup_dest
>                print "Checking permissions for reading and writing..."
>                self.__check_set_perm(rd_obj_path, backup_dest)
>                backup_obj = tarfile.open("%s\\%s(%s).tar.bz2" % 
> (backup_dest, bkp_obj_name, __current_time), 'w:bz2')
>
>            else:
>                rd_obj_path = rd_obj_path.replace('~/', '%s/' % 
> os.getenv('HOME'))
>                backup_dest = self.__backup_dest
>                print "Checking permissions for reading and writing..."
>                self.__check_set_perm(rd_obj_path, backup_dest)
>                backup_obj = tarfile.open("%s/%s(%s).tar.bz2" % 
> (backup_dest, bkp_obj_name, __current_time), 'w:bz2')
>
>            print "Preparing for backup [%s]..." % 
> os.path.split(rd_obj_path)[1]
>            print "Starting backup..."
>            read_obj = open(rd_obj_path, 'rb')
>            print "Now adding [%s]..." % os.path.split(rd_obj_path)[1]
>            backup_obj.add(read_obj.read())
>            read_obj.close(), backup_obj.close()
>            print "Backup [%s] made successfully. :-)" % 
> os.path.split(backup_dest)[1]
>
>        except (Except), ex:
>            return ex
>
>    def backup_dir(self, rd_obj_path, bkp_obj_name):
>
>        try:
>
>            if os.name == "nt":
>                rd_obj_path = rd_obj_path.replace('~/', '%s\\' % 
> os.getenv('HOME')).replace('\\', '\\\\')
>                backup_dest = self.__backup_dest
>                print "Checking permissions for reading and writing..."
>                self.__check_set_perm(rd_obj_path, backup_dest)
>                backup_obj = tarfile.open("%s\\%s(%s).tar.bz2" % 
> (backup_dest, bkp_obj_name, __current_time), 'w:bz2')
>
>            else:
>                rd_obj_path = rd_obj_path.replace('~/', '%s/' % 
> os.getenv('HOME'))
>                backup_dest = self.__backup_dest
>                print "Checking permissions for reading and writing..."
>                self.__check_set_perm(rd_obj_path, backup_dest)
>                backup_obj = tarfile.open("%s/%s(%s).tar.bz2" % 
> (backup_dest, bkp_obj_name, __current_time), 'w:bz2')
>
>            print "Preparing for backup '%s'..." % 
> os.path.split(rd_obj_path)[1]
>            print "Gathering files for backup..."
>            path_list = []
>            for root, dirs, files in os.walk(rd_obj_path):
>                for f in files:
>                    path_list.append(os.path.join(root, f))
>            print "Starting backup..."
>            for p in path_list:
>                fl = open(p, 'rb')
>                print "Now adding [%s] from [%s] directory" % 
> (os.path.split(p)[1], os.path.split(p)[0])
>                backup_obj.add(fl.read())
>                fl.close()
>                print "Added [%s] successfully" % os.path.split(p)[1]
>            backup_obj.close()
>            print "Backup [%s] made successfully. :-)" % 
> os.path.split(backup_dest)[1]
>
>        except (Except), ex:
>            return ex
>
>
> class ParseIt(object):
>
>    def __init__(self):
>        self.__initial = True
>
>    _usage = "usage: %prog [options] Arg1 Arg2"
>    parser = OptionParser(_usage)
>    parser.add_option("-f", "--file", action="store", type="string", 
> dest="filename", help="Make backup of a single file", 
> metavar="FILE_PATH CKP_NAME", nargs=2)
>    parser.add_option("-d", "--dir", action="store", type="string", 
> dest="dirname", help="Recursively backup a whole directory", 
> metavar="DIR_PATH BCKP_NAME", nargs=2)
>    parser.add_option("-i", "--info", dest="info_note", 
> action="store_true", help="Show script's documentation")
>
>    (options, args) = parser.parse_args()
>
> def main_meth():
>    paq = Packer()
>    pars = ParseIt()
>    if pars.options.filename:
>        paq.backup_file(pars.options.filename[0], 
> pars.options.filename[1])
>    elif pars.options.dirname:
>        paq.backup_dir(pars.options.dirname[0], pars.options.dirname[1])
>    elif pars.options.info_note:
>        paq.doc_note()
>
>
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>    main_meth()
>
> "
>
>
>
> 

>
I don't know why you didn't immediately add a print statement just 
before the failing os.access(), once you saw the error message.  You 
could have printed out both the formal parameter and the instance attribute.

Simple explanation:  you probably don't have an environment variable 
named "HOME".  I don't either, on Windows.  You need to test for that, 
and put some error handling, so the lack of an environment variable 
won't crash your program.

 > Then backup_dest is a reference to the variable self.__backup_dest. 
But that second reference seems to be recognised as a NoneType ??

backup_dest is a local variable which is a reference to whatever object 
self.__backup_dest referenced.  That could be a very different thing.  
But in this case the subtlety isn't important -- they're both 
referencing None, which is the object returned by os.getenv() when the 
requested environment variable doesn't exist.

DaveA



From kee at kagi.com  Sat Aug 22 13:46:51 2009
From: kee at kagi.com (Kee Nethery)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 10:46:51 -0700
Subject: string literal vs string variable
In-Reply-To: <4a8fc954$0$31331$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
References: <51b22a8c-54de-484e-9b3c-9baeb4498f69@q40g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	
	<4a8fc954$0$31331$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: 


On Aug 22, 2009, at 3:32 AM, Stefan Behnel wrote:

>
> You can use both, but I suspect parsing from StringIO to be slower  
> than
> parsing from the string directly. That's the case for lxml, at least.
>
> Note that fromstring() behaves the same as XML(), but it reads  
> better when
> parsing from a string variable. XML() reads better when parsing from a
> literal string.

I'm not sure I know the difference between a string variable and a  
literal string. Is the difference as simple as:

somestring = u'hello world'
fromstring(somestring)  <-- string variable
vs
XML(u'hello world')  <-- literal string

Kee




From gnuist006 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 14:11:32 2009
From: gnuist006 at gmail.com (bolega)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 11:11:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: sed/awk/perl: How to replace all spaces each with an underscore that 
	occur before a specific string ?
Message-ID: <1380cb14-6462-4585-b2d1-c59c99ff9b56@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

sed/awk/perl:

How to replace all spaces each with an underscore that occur before a
specific string ?

I really prefer a sed one liner.

Example
Input :  This is my book. It is too  thick to read. The author gets
little royalty but the publisher makes a lot.
Output: This_is_my_book._It_is_too__thick_to read. The author gets
little royalty but the publisher makes a lot.

We replaced all the spaces with underscores before the first occurence
of the string "to ".

Thanks
Gnuist





From carlosfabianramirez at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 14:12:50 2009
From: carlosfabianramirez at gmail.com (Carlos Fabian Ramirez)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:12:50 -0400
Subject: Urllib2 not working
Message-ID: <51303220908221112w79ccb746i900c22d45fff07c7@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,
When I try to open a URL using urllib2.urlopen it returns Name or service
not known. It is not a problem with my Internet I believe, since I have
Internet access on my computer, and I have verified it is not a syntax, or
spelling, error on my part. I have also tried accessing the site (google.com)
by IP like so:
urllib2.urlopen('http://74.125.67.100/')
but this does not work either.
This is a traceback of an attempt to access it through its URL (
http://www.google.com/)
http://dpaste.com/84016/
Any help would be very appreciated.
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From w_a_x_man at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 22 14:24:56 2009
From: w_a_x_man at yahoo.com (w_a_x_man)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 11:24:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: sed/awk/perl: How to replace all spaces each with an underscore 
	that occur before a specific string ?
References: <1380cb14-6462-4585-b2d1-c59c99ff9b56@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1bc82397-1e91-4055-879a-c178534e1c17@z24g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 22, 1:11?pm, bolega  wrote:
> sed/awk/perl:
>
> How to replace all spaces each with an underscore that occur before a
> specific string ?
>
> I really prefer a sed one liner.
>
> Example
> Input : ?This is my book. It is too ?thick to read. The author gets
> little royalty but the publisher makes a lot.
> Output: This_is_my_book._It_is_too__thick_to read. The author gets
> little royalty but the publisher makes a lot.
>
> We replaced all the spaces with underscores before the first occurence
> of the string "to ".
>
> Thanks
> Gnuist

awk 'BEGIN{FS=OFS="to "}{gsub(/ /,"_",$1);print}' myfile


From MacRules at nome.com  Sat Aug 22 14:25:25 2009
From: MacRules at nome.com (MacRules)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:25:25 -0400
Subject: Python - insert image / pdf / blob files to MySQL, MSSQL
Message-ID: <4a903814$0$10311$607ed4bc@cv.net>

Where to find code examples?

Or someone can post sample codes here.

Thanks


From code at pizzashack.org  Sat Aug 22 15:04:17 2009
From: code at pizzashack.org (Derek Martin)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:04:17 -0500
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: <87d46ok948.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: 
	<87d46ok948.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <20090822190417.GW20434@dragontoe.org>

On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 10:03:35AM +1000, Ben Finney wrote:
> > and the former is virtually indistinguishable from 00012, O0012, or
> > many other combinations that someone might accidentally type (or
> > intentionally type, having to do this in dozens of other programming
> > languages).
> 
> Only if you type the letter in uppercase. The lower-case ?o? is much
> easier to distinguish.

It is easier, but I dispute that it is much easier.
 
> Whether or not you find ?0o012? easily distinguishable as a non-decimal
> notation, it's undoubtedly easier to distinguish than ?012?.

012 has meant  decimal 10 in octal to me for so long, from its use in
MANY other programming languages, that I disagree completely.  

> > I can see how 012 can be confusing to new programmers, but at least
> > it's legible, and the great thing about humans is that they can be
> > taught (usually). I for one think this change is completely misguided.
> 
> These human programmers, whether newbies or long-experienced, also deal
> with decimal numbers every day, many of which are presented as a
> sequence of digits with leading zeros ? and we continue to think of them
> as decimal numbers regardless. Having the language syntax opposed to
> that is 
 
...consistent with virtually every other popular programming language.

-- 
Derek D. Martin
http://www.pizzashack.org/
GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D

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From ryniek90 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 15:16:11 2009
From: ryniek90 at gmail.com (ryniek90)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 21:16:11 +0200
Subject: TypeError while checking for permissions with os.access() on
	windows xp
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A9043FB.7070108@gmail.com>

>
>>> First, some nitpicking: Include the whole traceback when posting about
>>> errors please.  Don't write "if some_boolean_expression != True:"
>>> instead prefer "if not some_boolean_expression:".  Also, in your code
>>> "except (Except), ex: return ex" the parentheses are redundant,
>>> there's no "Except" Exception (unless you created one yourself) and
>>> why are you catching and returning the Exception object?  (Also,
>>> what's that "sys.exit(0)" doing in there? And why exit with 0 if there
>>> was a problem? Exit code 0 means "no problem".)
>>>
>>>
>>> Second, from what you've said backup_dest must be None:
>>>
>>>  
>>>>>> import os
>>>>>> os.access(None, os.W_OK)
>>>>>>         
>>>
>>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>>   File "", line 1, in 
>>>     os.access(None, os.W_OK)
>>> TypeError: coercing to Unicode: need string or buffer, NoneType found
>>>
>>>   
>>
>> No, backup_dest is destination for backup. It's this variable: 
>> *backup_dest = self.__backup_dest* .
>> *self.__backup_dest = os.getenv('HOME')*  -  as you can see, 
>> self.__backup_dest is a reference to the home directory which is a 
>> string. Then backup_dest is a reference to the variable 
>> self.__backup_dest. But that second reference seems to be recognised 
>> as a NoneType ??
>>
>> I'm using optparse in my script (that code for checking for 
>> permission is a part of my backup script).
>>
>> Maybe i post my complete code:
>> "
>> #!/usr/bin/env python
>> #-*- coding: utf-8 -*-
>> #MyBackUper
>>
>> import os, sys, tarfile
>> import datetime
>> from optparse import OptionParser
>>
>>
>> class Except(Exception):
>>    pass
>>
>>
>> class Packer(Except):
>>
>>    def __init__(self):
>>        self.__backup_dest = os.getenv('HOME')
>>        __current_time = datetime.datetime.today().strftime('%Y-%m-%d 
>> %H:%M:%S')
>>        Except.__init__(self)
>>
>>    def doc_note(self):
>>
>>        print """
>>
>>        DOCUMENTATION
>>
>>        'Backuper' is a script for doing backups.
>>        You can backup with it single files or whole directories.
>>        For available commands type 'backuper.py -h' or 'backuper.py 
>> --help'.
>>
>>        Using it is simple:
>>
>>        - to backup single file, type:
>>        'backuper.py -f FILE_PATH BCKP_NAME [DEST_PATH]',
>>        where 'FILE_PATH' is exact path to prefered file which you 
>> want to backup and 'BCKP_NAME' is the name for backup output file. 
>> Default 'DEST_PATH' is placed in home directory, it can't be changed. 
>> 'BCKP_NAME' must be given;
>>
>>        - to backup whole directory, type:
>>        'backuper.py -d DIR_PATH BCKP_NAME [DEST_PATH]', where 
>> 'DIR_PATH' is exact path to prefered directory, which you want to 
>> backup and 'BCKP_NAME' is the name for backup output file. Default 
>> 'DEST_PATH' is placed in home directory, it can't be changed. 
>> 'BCKP_NAME' must be given;
>>
>>        """
>>
>>    def __check_set_perm(self, rd_obj_path, backup_dest):
>>
>>        try:
>>
>>            if os.path.exists(rd_obj_path):
>>                if not os.access(rd_obj_path, os.R_OK):
>>                    print "Have no permissions on [%s] for reading 
>> operation.\nTrying to set them..." % os.path.split(rd_obj_path)[1]
>>                    if not os.path.isdir(rd_obj_path):
>>                        os.chmod(rd_obj_path, stat.S_IREAD)
>>                    else:
>>                        for root, dirs, files in os.walk(rd_obj_path):
>>                            for f in files:
>>                                os.chmod(os.path.join(root, f), 
>> stat.S_IREAD)
>>                    print "Get permissions for reading on [%s] 
>> successfully." % os.path.split(rd_obj_path)[1]
>>                else:
>>                    print "Have permissions on [%s] for reading." % 
>> os.path.split(rd_obj_path)[1]
>>
>>                if not os.access(backup_dest, os.W_OK):
>>                    print "Have no permissions on [%s] for writing 
>> operation.\nTrying to set them..." % os.path.split(backup_dest)[1]
>>                    os.chmod(backup_dest, stat.S_IWRITE)
>>                    print "Get permissions for reading on [%s] 
>> successfully." % os.path.split(backup_dest)[1]
>>                else:
>>                    print "Have permissions on [%s] for writing." % 
>> os.path.split(backup_dest)[1]
>>            else:
>>                return "Can't find specified path - [%s]." % rd_obj_path
>>                sys.exit(1)
>>
>>        except (Except), ex:
>>            return ex
>>
>>
>>    def backup_file(self, rd_obj_path, bkp_obj_name):
>>
>>        try:
>>
>>            if os.name == "nt":
>>                rd_obj_path = rd_obj_path.replace('~/', '%s\\' % 
>> os.getenv('HOME')).replace('\\', '\\\\')
>>                backup_dest = self.__backup_dest
>>                print "Checking permissions for reading and writing..."
>>                self.__check_set_perm(rd_obj_path, backup_dest)
>>                backup_obj = tarfile.open("%s\\%s(%s).tar.bz2" % 
>> (backup_dest, bkp_obj_name, __current_time), 'w:bz2')
>>
>>            else:
>>                rd_obj_path = rd_obj_path.replace('~/', '%s/' % 
>> os.getenv('HOME'))
>>                backup_dest = self.__backup_dest
>>                print "Checking permissions for reading and writing..."
>>                self.__check_set_perm(rd_obj_path, backup_dest)
>>                backup_obj = tarfile.open("%s/%s(%s).tar.bz2" % 
>> (backup_dest, bkp_obj_name, __current_time), 'w:bz2')
>>
>>            print "Preparing for backup [%s]..." % 
>> os.path.split(rd_obj_path)[1]
>>            print "Starting backup..."
>>            read_obj = open(rd_obj_path, 'rb')
>>            print "Now adding [%s]..." % os.path.split(rd_obj_path)[1]
>>            backup_obj.add(read_obj.read())
>>            read_obj.close(), backup_obj.close()
>>            print "Backup [%s] made successfully. :-)" % 
>> os.path.split(backup_dest)[1]
>>
>>        except (Except), ex:
>>            return ex
>>
>>    def backup_dir(self, rd_obj_path, bkp_obj_name):
>>
>>        try:
>>
>>            if os.name == "nt":
>>                rd_obj_path = rd_obj_path.replace('~/', '%s\\' % 
>> os.getenv('HOME')).replace('\\', '\\\\')
>>                backup_dest = self.__backup_dest
>>                print "Checking permissions for reading and writing..."
>>                self.__check_set_perm(rd_obj_path, backup_dest)
>>                backup_obj = tarfile.open("%s\\%s(%s).tar.bz2" % 
>> (backup_dest, bkp_obj_name, __current_time), 'w:bz2')
>>
>>            else:
>>                rd_obj_path = rd_obj_path.replace('~/', '%s/' % 
>> os.getenv('HOME'))
>>                backup_dest = self.__backup_dest
>>                print "Checking permissions for reading and writing..."
>>                self.__check_set_perm(rd_obj_path, backup_dest)
>>                backup_obj = tarfile.open("%s/%s(%s).tar.bz2" % 
>> (backup_dest, bkp_obj_name, __current_time), 'w:bz2')
>>
>>            print "Preparing for backup '%s'..." % 
>> os.path.split(rd_obj_path)[1]
>>            print "Gathering files for backup..."
>>            path_list = []
>>            for root, dirs, files in os.walk(rd_obj_path):
>>                for f in files:
>>                    path_list.append(os.path.join(root, f))
>>            print "Starting backup..."
>>            for p in path_list:
>>                fl = open(p, 'rb')
>>                print "Now adding [%s] from [%s] directory" % 
>> (os.path.split(p)[1], os.path.split(p)[0])
>>                backup_obj.add(fl.read())
>>                fl.close()
>>                print "Added [%s] successfully" % os.path.split(p)[1]
>>            backup_obj.close()
>>            print "Backup [%s] made successfully. :-)" % 
>> os.path.split(backup_dest)[1]
>>
>>        except (Except), ex:
>>            return ex
>>
>>
>> class ParseIt(object):
>>
>>    def __init__(self):
>>        self.__initial = True
>>
>>    _usage = "usage: %prog [options] Arg1 Arg2"
>>    parser = OptionParser(_usage)
>>    parser.add_option("-f", "--file", action="store", type="string", 
>> dest="filename", help="Make backup of a single file", 
>> metavar="FILE_PATH CKP_NAME", nargs=2)
>>    parser.add_option("-d", "--dir", action="store", type="string", 
>> dest="dirname", help="Recursively backup a whole directory", 
>> metavar="DIR_PATH BCKP_NAME", nargs=2)
>>    parser.add_option("-i", "--info", dest="info_note", 
>> action="store_true", help="Show script's documentation")
>>
>>    (options, args) = parser.parse_args()
>>
>> def main_meth():
>>    paq = Packer()
>>    pars = ParseIt()
>>    if pars.options.filename:
>>        paq.backup_file(pars.options.filename[0], 
>> pars.options.filename[1])
>>    elif pars.options.dirname:
>>        paq.backup_dir(pars.options.dirname[0], pars.options.dirname[1])
>>    elif pars.options.info_note:
>>        paq.doc_note()
>>
>>
>> if __name__ == "__main__":
>>    main_meth()
>>
>> "
>>
>>
>>
>> 

>>
> I don't know why you didn't immediately add a print statement just 
> before the failing os.access(), once you saw the error message.  You 
> could have printed out both the formal parameter and the instance 
> attribute.
>
> Simple explanation:  you probably don't have an environment variable 
> named "HOME".  I don't either, on Windows.  You need to test for that, 
> and put some error handling, so the lack of an environment variable 
> won't crash your program.
>
> > Then backup_dest is a reference to the variable self.__backup_dest. 
> But that second reference seems to be recognised as a NoneType ??
>
> backup_dest is a local variable which is a reference to whatever 
> object self.__backup_dest referenced.  That could be a very different 
> thing.  But in this case the subtlety isn't important -- they're both 
> referencing None, which is the object returned by os.getenv() when the 
> requested environment variable doesn't exist.
>
> DaveA

Yes, You have right Dave.
This reference don't exist in windows's cmd.exe, but in IDLE does.

Check this out:

"
Microsoft Windows XP [Wersja 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.

C:\Documents and Settings\Adrian-Admin>python
ActivePython 2.6.2.2 (ActiveState Software Inc.) based on
Python 2.6.2 (r262:71600, Apr 21 2009, 15:05:37) [MSC v.1500 32 bit 
(Intel)] on
win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> import os
 >>> os.getenv('HOME')
 >>> print os.getenv('HOME')
None
 >>>
"

And now output from IDLE:
"
Python 2.5.4 (r254:67916, Dec 23 2008, 15:10:54) [MSC v.1310 32 bit 
(Intel)] on win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license()" for more information.

    ****************************************************************
    Personal firewall software may warn about the connection IDLE
    makes to its subprocess using this computer's internal loopback
    interface.  This connection is not visible on any external
    interface and no data is sent to or received from the Internet.
    ****************************************************************
   
IDLE 1.2.4     
 >>> import os
 >>> os.getenv('HOME')
'C:\\Documents and Settings\\Adrian-Admin'
 >>>
"

WTF??
Why on IDLE it works, but when i run this script in cmd.exe, the 
os.getenv('HOME') goes NoneType?
I'm to newbie yet to understand this  :/

That's the example with Traceback:

"
C:\Documents and Settings\Adrian-Admin\Moje dokumenty\My 
Dropbox\Aplikacje\Moje_aplikacje\Pythonowe_aplikacje\Skrypty>python 
backuper.py -f E:\ISO\archlinux-2009.02-core-i686.img ArchLinBackup
Checking permissions for reading and writing...
Have permissions on [archlinux-2009.02-core-i686.img] for reading.
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "backuper.py", line 200, in 
    main_meth()
  File "backuper.py", line 190, in main_meth
    paq.backup_file(pars.options.filename[0], pars.options.filename[1])
  File "backuper.py", line 111, in backup_file
    self.__check_set_perm(rd_obj_path, self._backup_dest)
  File "backuper.py", line 90, in __check_set_perm
    if not os.access(self._backup_dest, os.W_OK):
TypeError: coercing to Unicode: need string or buffer, NoneType found

C:\Documents and Settings\Adrian-Admin\Moje dokumenty\My 
Dropbox\Aplikacje\Moje_aplikacje\Pythonowe_aplikacje\Skrypty>
"

So....it's cmd.exe fault?


From sajmikins at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 15:27:52 2009
From: sajmikins at gmail.com (Simon Forman)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 15:27:52 -0400
Subject: Urllib2 not working
In-Reply-To: <51303220908221112w79ccb746i900c22d45fff07c7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <51303220908221112w79ccb746i900c22d45fff07c7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50f98a4c0908221227k4cfe3387t205c91ba20d5e514@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Carlos Fabian
Ramirez wrote:
> Hello,
> When I try to open a URL using urllib2.urlopen it returns Name or service
> not known. It is not a problem with my Internet I believe, since I have
> Internet access on my computer, and I have verified it is not a syntax, or
> spelling, error on my part. I have also tried accessing the site
> (google.com) by IP like so:
> urllib2.urlopen('http://74.125.67.100/')
> but this does not work either.
> This is a traceback of an attempt to access it through its URL
> (http://www.google.com/)
> http://dpaste.com/84016/
> Any help would be very appreciated.
>

Try googling the error message "Name or service not known" and urllib2.

HTH


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 15:30:16 2009
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 12:30:16 -0700
Subject: TypeError while checking for permissions with os.access() on 
	windows xp
In-Reply-To: <4A9043FB.7070108@gmail.com>
References:  
	<4A9043FB.7070108@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c20908221230p673bffdane36b67482ab4621f@mail.gmail.com>

>
>
> WTF??
> Why on IDLE it works, but when i run this script in cmd.exe, the
> os.getenv('HOME') goes NoneType?
> I'm to newbie yet to understand this  :/
>

HOME is simply not a standard environment variable that Windows provides.
Any program can set/add environment variables as it deems fit; in this case
it seems IDLE is setting one, but you can't rely on it outside of IDLE.

If you do os.environ["HOMEDRIVE"] + os.environ["HOMEPATH"] it may be what
you want.

Start up cmd.exe, type 'set' -- that's the default/standard environment
variables you have to work with. That's it.

--S
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From jurajg at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 15:49:52 2009
From: jurajg at gmail.com (Juraj G.)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 21:49:52 +0200
Subject: difference between raw_input() and input()
In-Reply-To: <029d53bb$0$25987$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <3c91915d-bcb1-4ea9-9b37-6b30ea0588a0@e34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<029d53bb$0$25987$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <3cdfc0a80908221249t7b7042b8reab3b0202ef3b2a3@mail.gmail.com>

if you prefix number with zero, it will turn into octal number... I
too wasn't aware of it... at least in python :/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octal
It seems like bad practice to put zeroes before any decimal number in
any language :)
Juraj


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Sat Aug 22 15:49:55 2009
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:49:55 -0500
Subject: sed/awk/perl: How to replace all spaces each with an underscore
	that    occur before a specific string ?
In-Reply-To: <1380cb14-6462-4585-b2d1-c59c99ff9b56@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <1380cb14-6462-4585-b2d1-c59c99ff9b56@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A904BE3.6030507@tim.thechases.com>

bolega wrote:
> sed/awk/perl:

Better to post in the "sed" or "perl" mailing lists rather than a
Python list.  I saw an awk solution flew by.

> How to replace all spaces each with an underscore that occur
> before a specific string ?
> 
> I really prefer a sed one liner.

Here's a one-liner sed solution:

  sed '/to /{s//\n&/;h;s/.*\n//;x;s/\n.*//;s/ /_/g;G;s/\n//}'

There's a reason I prefer Python for these sorts of things: 
readability!  You win 5 free internets (as a stand-in for the 
"real life" you clearly don't have) if you can decipher that in 
under 20 seconds ;-)

expecting-to-see-NO CARRIER-after-typing-that'ly yers,

-tkc
+++ATH0













From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Sat Aug 22 16:11:20 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 22:11:20 +0200
Subject: Using 'apply' as a decorator, to define constants
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

21-08-2009 o 18:09:02 alex23  wrote:

> Unfortunately, apply() has been removed as a built-in in 3.x.

You can always implement it yourself :)

     def apply(function, args=(), keywords={}):
         return function(*args, **keywords)

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 16:27:02 2009
From: subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com (SUBHABRATA BANERJEE)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 01:57:02 +0530
Subject: Questions on XML
In-Reply-To: 
References: <51b22a8c-54de-484e-9b3c-9baeb4498f69@q40g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <97c638a50908221327ge57818ahc1bb4c9ad3eb186b@mail.gmail.com>

Should I help you? If you answered my questions I am differing from your
view I do not get any problem in processing Hindi or Bangla or any Indian
language in Python it is perfectly fine.
Best Regards,
Subhabrata.

On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 9:48 AM, Rami Chowdhury wrote:

>
> I am using primarily UTF-8 based strings, like Hindi or Bengali. Can I
>> use Python to help me in this regard?
>>
>
> I can say from experience that Python on Windows (at least, Python 2.5 on
> 32-bit Vista) works perfectly well with UTF-8 files containing Bangla. I
> have had trouble with working with the data in IDLE, however, which seems to
> prefer ASCII by default.
>
> -------------
> Rami Chowdhury
> "Never assume malice when stupidity will suffice." -- Hanlon's Razor
> 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)
>
>
>
>
>
> On Aug 21, 2009, at 19:15 , joy99 wrote:
>
>   Dear Group,
>>
>> I like to convert some simple strings of natural language to XML. May
>> I use Python to do this? If any one can help me, on this.
>>
>> I am using primarily UTF-8 based strings, like Hindi or Bengali. Can I
>> use Python to help me in this regard?
>>
>> How can I learn good XML aspects of Python. If any one can kindly name
>> me a book or URL.
>>
>> I am using Python2.6 on Windows XP with IDLE as GUI.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Subhabrata.
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>
>
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From piet at cs.uu.nl  Sat Aug 22 16:43:13 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 22:43:13 +0200
Subject: string literal vs string variable
References: <51b22a8c-54de-484e-9b3c-9baeb4498f69@q40g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	
	<4a8fc954$0$31331$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
	
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Kee Nethery  (KN) wrote:

>KN> On Aug 22, 2009, at 3:32 AM, Stefan Behnel wrote:

>>> 
>>> You can use both, but I suspect parsing from StringIO to be slower  than
>>> parsing from the string directly. That's the case for lxml, at least.
>>> 
>>> Note that fromstring() behaves the same as XML(), but it reads  better
>>> when
>>> parsing from a string variable. XML() reads better when parsing from a
>>> literal string.

>KN> I'm not sure I know the difference between a string variable and a  literal
>KN> string. Is the difference as simple as:

>KN> somestring = u'hello world'
>KN> fromstring(somestring)  <-- string variable
>KN> vs
>KN> XML(u'hello world')  <-- literal string

Yes.

Stefan probably means `looks better for the human reader' when he says
`reads better'. XML and fromstring are just different names for the same
function. 
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Sat Aug 22 16:44:35 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 22:44:35 +0200
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: <20090822190417.GW20434@dragontoe.org>
References: 
	<87d46ok948.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <20090822190417.GW20434@dragontoe.org>
Message-ID: 

22-08-2009 o 21:04:17 Derek Martin  wrote:

> On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 10:03:35AM +1000, Ben Finney wrote:

>> These human programmers, whether newbies or long-experienced, also deal
>> with decimal numbers every day, many of which are presented as a
>> sequence of digits with leading zeros ? and we continue to think of them
>> as decimal numbers regardless. Having the language syntax opposed to
>> that is

> ...consistent with virtually every other popular programming language.

Probably not every other...

Anyway -- being (as it was said) inconsistent with every-day-convention --
it'd be also inconsistent with *Python* conventions, i.e.:

0x <- hex prefix
0b <- bin prefix

Cheers,
*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Sat Aug 22 16:51:44 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 22:51:44 +0200
Subject: sed/awk/perl: How to replace all spaces each with an underscore
	that occur before a specific string ?
In-Reply-To: <1380cb14-6462-4585-b2d1-c59c99ff9b56@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <1380cb14-6462-4585-b2d1-c59c99ff9b56@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

22-08-2009 o 20:11:32 bolega  wrote:

> sed/awk/perl:
>
> How to replace all spaces each with an underscore that occur before a
> specific string ?

$ rm -rf /home/bolega ; python -c 'for i in xrange(1000): print "I will  
never crosspost senselessly."'

;~]

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 16:53:16 2009
From: subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com (joy99)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 13:53:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Questions on XML
References: <51b22a8c-54de-484e-9b3c-9baeb4498f69@q40g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	
	<4a8f87db$0$30221$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net> 
	
Message-ID: <11b8af5c-de10-4583-979c-64109c8fe698@g1g2000pra.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 22, 12:16?pm, Rami Chowdhury  wrote:
> > encoding declaration to the top of your source file if you use encoded
> > literal strings in your code
>
> Any tips for how to set the encoding in IDLE? printing the Unicode ?
> strings works -- trying to repr() the variable chokes with a ?
> UnicodeDecodeError, and trying to enter the literals inside IDLE just ?
> gets me '?' characters instead.
>
> (this is Python 2.5 + IDLE installed from the Python-2.5.msi on ?
> python.org)
>
> -------------
> Rami Chowdhury
> "Never assume malice when stupidity will suffice." -- Hanlon's Razor
> 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)
>
> On Aug 21, 2009, at 22:53 , Stefan Behnel wrote:
>
>
>
> > Rami Chowdhury wrote:
> >>> I am using primarily UTF-8 based strings, like Hindi or Bengali. ?
> >>> Can I
> >>> use Python to help me in this regard?
>
> >> I can say from experience that Python on Windows (at least, Python ?
> >> 2.5
> >> on 32-bit Vista) works perfectly well with UTF-8 files containing
> >> Bangla. I have had trouble with working with the data in IDLE, ?
> >> however,
> >> which seems to prefer ASCII by default.
>
> > Defaults almost never work for encodings. You have to be explicit: ?
> > add an
> > encoding declaration to the top of your source file if you use encoded
> > literal strings in your code; use the codecs module with a suitable
> > encoding to read encoded text files, and use an XML parser when ?
> > reading XML.
>
> > Stefan
> > --
> >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Dear Sir,

There is no big issue for this. I simply downloaded Python2.5 and
using IDLE on Windows XP with service pack 2. I used Python 2.5
earlier and presently using Python 2.6 and it is also perfectly fine.
I am not using it for small programs but machine learning programs,
where code itself runs few million lines over some terabytes of Hindi
and Bengali data, and I never found any problem. What is the exact
nature of problem you are getting? If you can kindly specify. If
possible, with some sample codes. And printing is also never been a
problem, all good printers like HP,Epson,Xerox,Canon are printing
Hindi or Bengali data finely.
If you can kindly specify the problem.

Best Regards,
Subhabrata.


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Sat Aug 22 17:06:57 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 23:06:57 +0200
Subject: string literal vs string variable
In-Reply-To: 
References: <51b22a8c-54de-484e-9b3c-9baeb4498f69@q40g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	
	<4a8fc954$0$31331$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
	
Message-ID: 

22-08-2009 o 19:46:51 Kee Nethery  wrote:

> I'm not sure I know the difference between a string variable and a  
> literal string. Is the difference as simple as:
>
> somestring = u'hello world'
> fromstring(somestring)  <-- string variable
> vs
> XML(u'hello world')  <-- literal string

Yes, simply:

     s = 'hello world'
     #    ^
     #    it is a *string literal*

     s  # <- it is a *string object*
        #    (or rather a name referring to it :-))

(In Python we have rather 'names' than 'variables', though -- as
a mental leap -- they are commonly referred to as 'variables',
regarding other languages' terminology).

Cheers,
*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 17:25:08 2009
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Fuzzyman)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:25:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ANN: mock 0.6.0, Python mocking and testing library
Message-ID: <5a8c8a3a-8bf0-40ad-bf21-89b6fc6a3c9f@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

mock is a Python mock object library for testing, with additional
support for runtime monkey patching.

Most mocking libraries follow the ?record -> replay? pattern of
mocking. I prefer the ?action -> assertion? pattern, which is more
readable and intuitive; particularly when working with the Python
unittest module.

This release, version 0.6.0, is a minor release but with a few new
features:

* mock homepage http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/mock/
* download http://www.voidspace.org.uk/downloads/mock-0.6.0.zip
* PDF documentation http://www.voidspace.org.uk/downloads/mock.pdf
* Google code project and SVN repository http://code.google.com/p/mock/

New in 0.6.0:

* New test layout compatible with test discovery
* Descriptors (static methods / class methods etc) can now be patched
and restored correctly
* Mocks can raise exceptions when called by setting side_effect to an
exception class or instance
* Mocks that wrap objects will not pass on calls to the underlying
object if an explicit return_value is set



From countryone77 at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 22 17:26:16 2009
From: countryone77 at yahoo.com (Bev in TX)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:26:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: logging SMTPhandler Error
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 21, 8:34?am, Bev in TX  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I've done some Python programming, but I still consider myself a
> Python newbie. ?I have a Mac Pro OS X 10.5.8 system and I installed
> Python 2.6.2 (the latest package available for the Mac) yesterday.
>
> I was working through Matt Wilson's article on using the logging
> module:http://blog.tplus1.com/index.php/2007/09/28/the-python-logging-module...
> (If that does not work, then try:http://tinyurl.com/5v2lcy)
>
> Everything worked great until his last example. ?My ISP does not
> provide e-mail, so I tried using gmail in the line that sets h2. ?I
> substituted "mailid" for my actual e-mail address in the following
> examples; in my test I used my actual e-mail ID. ?Also, I used the
> full path to the newly installed Python 2.6.2; otherwise it picked up
> the older Python 2.5:
> #!/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/bin/python
>
> First attempt:
> h2 = logging.handlers.SMTPHandler('smtp.gmail.com', 'mai... at gmail.com',
> ['mai... at gmail.com'],'ERROR log')
> However, that caused the following error to be issued:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/
> python2.6/logging/handlers.py", line 868, in emit
> ? ? smtp.sendmail(self.fromaddr, self.toaddrs, msg)
> ? File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/
> python2.6/smtplib.py", line 698, in sendmail
> ? ? raise SMTPSenderRefused(code, resp, from_addr)
> SMTPSenderRefused: (530, '5.7.0 Must issue a STARTTLS command first.
> 7sm3867994qwf.47', 'mai... at gmail.com')
>
> I also tried providing my gmail userid/password, I tried adding a 5th,
> credential, argument, which is a tupple, (username,password) (new in
> 2.6).
>
> Second attempt:
> h2 = logging.handlers.SMTPHandler('smtp.gmail.com', 'mai... at gmail.com',
> ['mai... at gmail.com'],'ERROR log',('mai... at gmail.com','gmail-
> password'))
> However, that caused the following error message:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/
> python2.6/logging/handlers.py", line 867, in emit
> ? ? smtp.login(self.username, self.password)
> ? File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/
> python2.6/smtplib.py", line 552, in login
> ? ? raise SMTPException("SMTP AUTH extension not supported by
> server.")
> SMTPException: SMTP AUTH extension not supported by server.
>
> I am able access gmail via Mac's Mail, in which it says that outgoing
> mail is going to:
> ? ? ? smtp.gmail.com:mailid
> I tried using that as the server in the Python script, but it could
> not find that server.
>
> Is this possible? ?If I am doing something incorrectly, would someone
> please indicate what it is?
>
> Thanks,
> Bev in TX

Today I tried this with both Python 2.6.2 and 3.1.1 on an XP system,
with the same error.  For the 3.1.1 test, I had to change the syntax
of the exception from "except exc, var" to "except exc as var".  Here
is the modified script, with my email ID changed to "mailid":

import logging
import logging.handlers

#Make a global logging object
x = logging.getLogger("logfun")
x.setLevel(logging.DEBUG)

#This handler writes out everything to stdout
h1 = logging.StreamHandler()
f = logging.Formatter("%(levelname)s %(asctime)s %(funcName)s %(lineno)
d %(message)s")
h1.setFormatter(f)
h1.setLevel(logging.DEBUG)
x.addHandler(h1)

#This handler emails me anything that is an error or worse
h2 = logging.handlers.SMTPHandler('smtp.gmail.com', 'mailid at gmail.com',
['mailid at gmail.com'],'ERROR log')
f = logging.Formatter("%(levelname)s %(asctime)s %(funcName)s %(lineno)
d %(message)s")
h2.setLevel(logging.ERROR)
h2.setFormatter(f)
x.addHandler(h2)

def g():
  1 / 0

def f():
  logfun = logging.getLogger("logfun")
  logfun.debug("inside f!")
  try:
    g()
  except Exception as ex:
    logfun.exception("Something awful happened!")
  logfun.debug("Finishing f!")

if __name__ == "__main__":
  f()

Thanks,
Bev in TX


From ryniek90 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 17:37:22 2009
From: ryniek90 at gmail.com (ryniek90)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 23:37:22 +0200
Subject: TypeError while checking for permissions with os.access() on
	windows xp
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A906512.1060606@gmail.com>

>
>
>
>     WTF??
>     Why on IDLE it works, but when i run this script in cmd.exe, the
>     os.getenv('HOME') goes NoneType?
>     I'm to newbie yet to understand this  :/
>
>
> HOME is simply not a standard environment variable that Windows 
> provides. Any program can set/add environment variables as it deems 
> fit; in this case it seems IDLE is setting one, but you can't rely on 
> it outside of IDLE.
>
> If you do os.environ["HOMEDRIVE"] + os.environ["HOMEPATH"] it may be 
> what you want.
>
> Start up cmd.exe, type 'set' -- that's the default/standard 
> environment variables you have to work with. That's it.
>
> --S

Yep, now that variable works fine. Thanks.


From james.harris.1 at googlemail.com  Sat Aug 22 17:54:41 2009
From: james.harris.1 at googlemail.com (James Harris)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:54:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal notation
References:  
	
	 
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com> 
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: 

On 22 Aug, 10:27, David <71da... at libero.it> wrote:

... (snipped a discussion on languages and other systems interpreting
numbers with a leading zero as octal)

> > Either hexadecimal should have been 0h or octal should
> > have been 0t :=)
>
>
> I have seen the use of Q/q instead in order to make it clearer. I still
> prefer Smalltalk's 16rFF and 8r377.
>
>
> Two interesting options. In a project I have on I have also considered
> using 0q as indicating octal. I maybe saw it used once somewhere else
> but I have no idea where. 0t was a second choice and 0c third choice
> (the other letters of oct). 0o should NOT be used for obvious reasons.
>
> So you are saying that Smalltalk has r where
> r is presumably for radix? That's maybe best of all. It preserves the
> syntactic requirement of starting a number with a digit and seems to
> have greatest flexibility. Not sure how good it looks but it's
> certainly not bad.
>
>
> > ? 0xff & 0x0e | 0b1101
> > ? 16rff & 16r0e | 2r1101
>
> > Hmm. Maybe a symbol would be better than a letter.

...

> >        Or Ada's        16#FF#, 8#377#...

> >        I forget if DEC/VMS FORTRAN or Xerox Sigma FORTRAN used x'FF' or
> >   'FF'x, and o'377' or '377'o

...

>
> What about 2_1011, 8_7621, 16_c26h or 2;1011, 8;7621, 16;c26h ?

They look good - which is important. The trouble (for me) is that I
want the notation for a new programming language and already use these
characters. I have underscore as an optional separator for groups of
digits - 123000 and 123_000 mean the same. The semicolon terminates a
statement. Based on your second idea, though, maybe a colon could be
used instead as in

  2:1011, 8:7621, 16:c26b

I don't (yet) use it as a range operator.

I could also use a hash sign as although I allow hash to begin
comments it cannot be preceded by anything other than whitespace so
these would be usable

  2#1011, 8#7621, 16#c26b

I have no idea why Ada which uses the # also apparently uses it to end
a number

  2#1011#, 8#7621#, 16#c26b#

Copying this post also to comp.lang.misc. Folks there may either be
interested in the discussion or have comments to add.

James


From kkumerNOTTHIS at thatfamoussearchenginesmail.com  Sat Aug 22 18:49:22 2009
From: kkumerNOTTHIS at thatfamoussearchenginesmail.com (Kreso)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 22:49:22 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Items inheriting attributes from its container?
Message-ID: 

I would like to create a list-like container class so that, additionally
to usual list methods, I could attach attributes to the container instances.
However, I would like it so that the items contained in the particular
instance of container somehow 'inherit' those attributes i.e.

cont = Container()
cont.color = 'blue'
cont.append(item)
print item.color
'blue'

The example appended below does that, but with the restriction that container
attributes must be set in the instantiation phase. This is actually fine
for me at the moment because my objects are "read only", but I would
like to hear about better solutions, with more flexibility, please.


#-----8<----------------------------
class Player:
    """Class for items"""

    def __init__(self, playerdata, team):
        self.data = playerdata
        for key in team.__dict__:
            setattr(self, key, team.__dict__[key])
        return


class Team(list):
    """Class for containers"""
    
    def __init__(self, teamdata, playerdata):
        for key in teamdata:
            setattr(self, key, teamdata[key])
        for item in playerdata:
            self.append(Player(item, self))
        return
            

lakersdata = {'name' : 'Lakers', 'kitcolor' : 'yellow'}
lakersplayers = [['Kobe', 'PG', 12, 123], ['Kareem', 'FW', 23, 345]]

lakers = Team(lakersdata, lakersplayers)

# This is fine:
p1 = lakers[1]
print p1.kitcolor

# However the following doesn't work:
lakers.kitcolor = 'blue'
print p1.kitcolor

#-----8<----------------------------


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sat Aug 22 18:52:29 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 15:52:29 -0700
Subject: line completion
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908221552k3a44156ek509a35ad0764dd2b@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Steven Woody wrote:
> Hi,
> I wrote a program that takes some user input. ?Many inputs are quit often
> used by user, so when a user launch the program, and type in "The Sha", ?he
> wants to get "wshank Redemption" displayed automatically in reversed color
> (black text on white background) along his cursor. ?When he decided to use
> "The Shawshank Redemption", he just press the enter key, otherwise, he type
> in other words anyway.
> My question is, is there any module that can easy the implementation of this
> feature? ?Thanks.

The `readline` module in the standard library:
http://docs.python.org/library/readline.html

Although I don't know how to get it to colorize the interface.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From mortonspam at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 19:02:27 2009
From: mortonspam at gmail.com (Ed Morton)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 16:02:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: sed/awk/perl: How to replace all spaces each with an underscore 
	that occur before a specific string ?
References: <1380cb14-6462-4585-b2d1-c59c99ff9b56@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 22, 1:11?pm, bolega  wrote:
> sed/awk/perl:
>
> How to replace all spaces each with an underscore that occur before a
> specific string ?
>
> I really prefer a sed one liner.

Why?

> Example
> Input : ?This is my book. It is too ?thick to read. The author gets
> little royalty but the publisher makes a lot.
> Output: This_is_my_book._It_is_too__thick_to read. The author gets
> little royalty but the publisher makes a lot.
>
> We replaced all the spaces with underscores before the first occurence
> of the string "to ".

No, you replaced all ... the string "to " (note the space).

awk '{idx=index($0,"to "); tgt=substr($0,1,idx-1); gsub(/ /,"_",tgt);
print tgt substr($0,idx)}' file

   Ed.


From lists at cheimes.de  Sat Aug 22 19:14:03 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 01:14:03 +0200
Subject: Items inheriting attributes from its container?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Kreso schrieb:
> I would like to create a list-like container class so that, additionally
> to usual list methods, I could attach attributes to the container instances.
> However, I would like it so that the items contained in the particular
> instance of container somehow 'inherit' those attributes i.e.

The Python web application framework Zope implements the feature under 
the name "acquisition". Happy Googling!

Christian



From mwilson at the-wire.com  Sat Aug 22 19:16:39 2009
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 19:16:39 -0400
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal
	notation
References: 
	
	
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
Message-ID: 

James Harris wrote:

> I have no idea why Ada which uses the # also apparently uses it to end
> a number
> 
>   2#1011#, 8#7621#, 16#c26b#

Interesting.  They do it because of this example from 
:

2#1#E8                    -- an integer literal of value 256

where the E prefixes a power-of-2 exponent, and can't be taken as a digit of 
the radix.  That is to say

16#1#E2

would also equal 256, since it's 1*16**2 .


	Mel.



From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 19:45:20 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 16:45:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References:  
	<87d46ok948.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 22, 12:04?pm, Derek Martin  wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 10:03:35AM +1000, Ben Finney wrote:
> > These human programmers, whether newbies or long-experienced, also deal
> > with decimal numbers every day, many of which are presented as a
> > sequence of digits with leading zeros ? and we continue to think of them
> > as decimal numbers regardless. Having the language syntax opposed to
> > that is
>
> ...consistent with virtually every other popular programming language.


If you know anything about Python, you should know that "consistent
with virtually every other programming langauge" is, at most, a polite
suggestion for how Python should do it.


Carl Banks


From somebody at somewhere.com  Sat Aug 22 19:46:26 2009
From: somebody at somewhere.com (Stephen Fairchild)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 00:46:26 +0100
Subject: Items inheriting attributes from its container?
References: 
Message-ID: <_MSdnWJk2KnPHg3XnZ2dnUVZ8hmdnZ2d@giganews.com>

Kreso wrote:

> I would like to create a list-like container class so that, additionally
> to usual list methods, I could attach attributes to the container
> instances. However, I would like it so that the items contained in the
> particular instance of container somehow 'inherit' those attributes i.e.
> 
> cont = Container()
> cont.color = 'blue'
> cont.append(item)
> print item.color
> 'blue'
> 
> The example appended below does that, but with the restriction that
> container attributes must be set in the instantiation phase. This is
> actually fine for me at the moment because my objects are "read only", but
> I would like to hear about better solutions, with more flexibility,
> please.
> 
> 
> #-----8<----------------------------
> class Player:
>     """Class for items"""
> 
>     def __init__(self, playerdata, team):
>         self.data = playerdata
>         for key in team.__dict__:
>             setattr(self, key, team.__dict__[key])
>         return
> 
> 
> class Team(list):
>     """Class for containers"""
>     
>     def __init__(self, teamdata, playerdata):
>         for key in teamdata:
>             setattr(self, key, teamdata[key])
>         for item in playerdata:
>             self.append(Player(item, self))
>         return
>             
> 
> lakersdata = {'name' : 'Lakers', 'kitcolor' : 'yellow'}
> lakersplayers = [['Kobe', 'PG', 12, 123], ['Kareem', 'FW', 23, 345]]
> 
> lakers = Team(lakersdata, lakersplayers)
> 
> # This is fine:
> p1 = lakers[1]
> print p1.kitcolor
> 
> # However the following doesn't work:
> lakers.kitcolor = 'blue'
> print p1.kitcolor
> 
> #-----8<----------------------------

I hope this gives you some good ideas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Join_(SQL)

I suspect you will be finding a use for the special __getattr__ method,
which is called when an attribute is not found. This can be used to search
on your set of joined objects. Your list of joined objects should be a
set() to prevent duplicates.
-- 
Stephen Fairchild


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 19:49:40 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 16:49:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 21, 12:48?pm, Derek Martin  wrote:
> John Nagle wrote:
> > Yes, and making lead zeros an error as suggested in PEP 3127 is a
> > good idea. ?It will be interesting to see what bugs that flushes
> > out.
> James Harris wrote:
> > It maybe made sense once but this relic of the past should have been
> > consigned to the waste bin of history long ago.
>
> Sigh. ?Nonsense. ?I use octal notation *every day*, for two extremely
> prevalent purposes: file creation umask, and Unix file permissions
> (i.e. the chmod() function/command).

Unix file permissions maybe made sense once but this relic of the past
should have been consigned to the waste bin of history long ago.  :)


Carl Banks


From nad at acm.org  Sat Aug 22 20:07:29 2009
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 17:07:29 -0700
Subject: logging SMTPhandler Error
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

In article 
,
 Bev in TX  wrote:
> On Aug 21, 8:34?am, Bev in TX  wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I've done some Python programming, but I still consider myself a
> > Python newbie. ?I have a Mac Pro OS X 10.5.8 system and I installed
> > Python 2.6.2 (the latest package available for the Mac) yesterday.
> >
> > I was working through Matt Wilson's article on using the logging
> > module:http://blog.tplus1.com/index.php/2007/09/28/the-python-logging-module
> > ...
> > (If that does not work, then try:http://tinyurl.com/5v2lcy)
> >
> > Everything worked great until his last example. ?My ISP does not
> > provide e-mail, so I tried using gmail in the line that sets h2. ?I
> > substituted "mailid" for my actual e-mail address in the following
> > examples; in my test I used my actual e-mail ID. ?Also, I used the
> > full path to the newly installed Python 2.6.2; otherwise it picked up
> > the older Python 2.5:
> > #!/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/bin/python
> >
> > First attempt:
> > h2 = logging.handlers.SMTPHandler('smtp.gmail.com', 'mai... at gmail.com',
> > ['mai... at gmail.com'],'ERROR log')
> > However, that caused the following error to be issued:
> >
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> > ? File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/
> > python2.6/logging/handlers.py", line 868, in emit
> > ? ? smtp.sendmail(self.fromaddr, self.toaddrs, msg)
> > ? File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/
> > python2.6/smtplib.py", line 698, in sendmail
> > ? ? raise SMTPSenderRefused(code, resp, from_addr)
> > SMTPSenderRefused: (530, '5.7.0 Must issue a STARTTLS command first.
> > 7sm3867994qwf.47', 'mai... at gmail.com')

The problem here is that gmail, like most modern mail services, requires 
the use of an encrypted (SSL or TLS) connection for mail relaying so 
that the required user name and password are not sent in the clear.  The 
logging SMTP handler uses the smtplib module from the standard module to 
send mail and, when built properly, smtplib does support TLS.  However, 
the caller of smtplib does need to do some extra work in that case, i.e. 
it needs to call the server object's starttls method at the right point 
in the protocol handshaking. It's currently not done automatically in 
smtplib and, unfortunately, there is no code in the logging smtp handler 
to detect the need for and to call starttls (in response to a 
250-STARTTLS response to an EHLO).

To make this work, either the logging module or, perhaps better, the 
smptlib module needs to be smarter about this case.  I didn't see an 
open issue on the Python bug tracker about this; you might want to open 
one.  In the meantime, some options would be to find an SMTP mail host 
that doesn't require TLS.  Or write a custom logger.  Or on OS X it's 
not *too* difficult to set up a local host mailer using the 
Apple-supplied prefix that would accept mail locally and forward it to a 
more sophisticated remote mailer.

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org



From someone at example.com  Sat Aug 22 20:14:29 2009
From: someone at example.com (John W. Krahn)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 17:14:29 -0700
Subject: sed/awk/perl: How to replace all spaces each with an underscore
	that  occur before a specific string ?
In-Reply-To: <1380cb14-6462-4585-b2d1-c59c99ff9b56@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <1380cb14-6462-4585-b2d1-c59c99ff9b56@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

bolega wrote:
> sed/awk/perl:
> 
> How to replace all spaces each with an underscore that occur before a
> specific string ?
> 
> I really prefer a sed one liner.
> 
> Example
> Input :  This is my book. It is too  thick to read. The author gets
> little royalty but the publisher makes a lot.
> Output: This_is_my_book._It_is_too__thick_to read. The author gets
> little royalty but the publisher makes a lot.
> 
> We replaced all the spaces with underscores before the first occurence
> of the string "to ".

$ perl -le'
$x = "This is my book. It is too  thick to read. The author gets little 
royalty but the publisher makes a lot.";
print $x;
$x =~ /to / && substr( $x, 0, $-[0] ) =~ tr/ /_/;
print $x;
'
This is my book. It is too  thick to read. The author gets little 
royalty but the publisher makes a lot.
This_is_my_book._It_is_too__thick_to read. The author gets little 
royalty but the publisher makes a lot.




John
-- 
Those people who think they know everything are a great
annoyance to those of us who do.        -- Isaac Asimov


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Aug 22 20:45:18 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 01:45:18 +0100
Subject: sed/awk/perl: How to replace all spaces each with an underscore
	that  occur before a specific string ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <1380cb14-6462-4585-b2d1-c59c99ff9b56@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4A90911E.3000402@mrabarnett.plus.com>

John W. Krahn wrote:
> bolega wrote:
>> sed/awk/perl:
>>
>> How to replace all spaces each with an underscore that occur before a
>> specific string ?
>>
>> I really prefer a sed one liner.
>>
>> Example
>> Input :  This is my book. It is too  thick to read. The author gets
>> little royalty but the publisher makes a lot.
>> Output: This_is_my_book._It_is_too__thick_to read. The author gets
>> little royalty but the publisher makes a lot.
>>
>> We replaced all the spaces with underscores before the first occurence
>> of the string "to ".
> 
> $ perl -le'
> $x = "This is my book. It is too  thick to read. The author gets little 
> royalty but the publisher makes a lot.";
> print $x;
> $x =~ /to / && substr( $x, 0, $-[0] ) =~ tr/ /_/;
> print $x;
> '
> This is my book. It is too  thick to read. The author gets little 
> royalty but the publisher makes a lot.
> This_is_my_book._It_is_too__thick_to read. The author gets little 
> royalty but the publisher makes a lot.
> 
If you're interested in a Python regex solution:

s = "This is my book. It is too  thick to read. The author gets little 
royalty but the publisher makes a lot."
s = re.sub(".*?(?=to )", lambda m: m.group().replace(" ", "_"), s)



From countryone77 at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 22 20:45:52 2009
From: countryone77 at yahoo.com (Bev in TX)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 17:45:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: logging SMTPhandler Error
References: 
	 
	
Message-ID: <87236fb1-c09f-46e8-8492-514ba000c74a@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 22, 7:07?pm, Ned Deily  wrote:
>
> The problem here is that gmail, like most modern mail services, requires
> the use of an encrypted (SSL or TLS) connection for mail relaying so
> that the required user name and password are not sent in the clear. ?The
> logging SMTP handler uses the smtplib module from the standard module to
> send mail and, when built properly, smtplib does support TLS. ?However,
> the caller of smtplib does need to do some extra work in that case, i.e.
> it needs to call the server object's starttls method at the right point
> in the protocol handshaking. It's currently not done automatically in
> smtplib and, unfortunately, there is no code in the logging smtp handler
> to detect the need for and to call starttls (in response to a
> 250-STARTTLS response to an EHLO).
>
> To make this work, either the logging module or, perhaps better, the
> smptlib module needs to be smarter about this case. ?I didn't see an
> open issue on the Python bug tracker about this; you might want to open
> one. ?In the meantime, some options would be to find an SMTP mail host
> that doesn't require TLS. ?Or write a custom logger. ?Or on OS X it's
> not *too* difficult to set up a local host mailer using the
> Apple-supplied prefix that would accept mail locally and forward it to a
> more sophisticated remote mailer.
>
> --
> ?Ned Deily,
> ?n... at acm.org- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thanks for the excellent and informative response :-).  I'll
investigate further, as you suggested, now that I understand what is
happening.

Bev in TX


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Sat Aug 22 20:56:08 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 02:56:08 +0200
Subject: Items inheriting attributes from its container?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

23-08-2009 Kreso  wrote:

> I would like to create a list-like container class so that, additionally
> to usual list methods, I could attach attributes to the container  
> instances.
> However, I would like it so that the items contained in the particular
> instance of container somehow 'inherit' those attributes i.e.
>
> cont = Container()
> cont.color = 'blue'
> cont.append(item)
> print item.color
> 'blue'

[snip]

> class Player:
>     """Class for items"""
>
>     def __init__(self, playerdata, team):
>         self.data = playerdata
>         for key in team.__dict__:
>             setattr(self, key, team.__dict__[key])
>         return
>
>
> class Team(list):
>     """Class for containers"""
>    def __init__(self, teamdata, playerdata):
>         for key in teamdata:
>             setattr(self, key, teamdata[key])
>         for item in playerdata:
>             self.append(Player(item, self))
>         return
>
> lakersdata = {'name' : 'Lakers', 'kitcolor' : 'yellow'}
> lakersplayers = [['Kobe', 'PG', 12, 123], ['Kareem', 'FW', 23, 345]]
>
> lakers = Team(lakersdata, lakersplayers)

[snip]

> p1 = lakers[1]
> print p1.kitcolor

[snip]

> lakers.kitcolor = 'blue'
> print p1.kitcolor

[Not tested. I believe that the idea is clear]


   class RecruitmentError(ValueError):
       """Raised when a player cannot be recruited."""


   class Player(object):
       """A potential item of a Team() instance."""

       def __init__(self, playerdata, team=None):
           self.data = playerdata
           self.team = None
           if team:
               team.append(self)

       # (called when the usual attribute lookup didn't succeed)
       def __getattr__(self, name):
           return getattr(self.team, name)

       # ^ the last method may not be necessary -- you can always
       #   access to team data via 'team' attribute
       #   (and 'explicit is better than implicit')


   class Team(list):
       """A container for Player() instances."""

       def __init__(self, teamdata, playerdata=None):
           for key in teamdata:
               setattr(self, key, teamdata[key])
           for data in playerdata:
               self.append(Player(data))

       def _validate_and_get(self, index=None, player=None):
           if player is not None and not isinstance(player, Player):
               raise TypeError('A Player instance is required')
           if index is not None:
               if isinstance(index, slice):
                   raise TypeError('Slicing is not allowed')
               return self[index]  # (raise IndexError for bad index)

       _validate = _validate_and_get

       def _recruit(self, player):
           if player.team is None:
               player.team = self
           else:
               raise RecruitmentError('Player %s has already recruited')

       def _dismiss(self, player):
           player.team = None

       def __setitem__(self, index, player):
           current = self._validate_and_get(index, player)
           if player is not current:
               self._recruit(player)
               self._dismiss(current)
               list.__setitem__(self, index, player)

       def __delitem__(self, index):
           player = self._validate_and_get(index)
           self._dismiss(player)
           list.__delitem__(self, index)

       def append(self, player):
           self._validate(player=player)
           self._recruit(player)
           list.append(self, player)

       # and similarly:
       # * def extend...
       # * def insert...
       # * def pop...
       # * def remove...

...if you really need ordered container (reflecting functions/hierarchy
of players in a team?).

Otherwise, as Stephen noted, you should subclass set rather than list.

Cheers,
*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Sat Aug 22 21:08:37 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 03:08:37 +0200
Subject: Items inheriting attributes from its container?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

PS. Erratum:

>    class Team(list):
>        """A container for Player() instances."""
>
>        def __init__(self, teamdata, playerdata=None):

*** Here should be added: list.__init__(self) ***

>            for key in teamdata:
>                setattr(self, key, teamdata[key])
>            for data in playerdata:
>                self.append(Player(data))

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sat Aug 22 21:27:25 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 11:27:25 +1000
Subject: your favorite debugging tool?
References: 
Message-ID: <87vdkfiaki.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Esmail  writes:

> What is your favorite tool to help you debug your code?

A ?print? statement (or equivalent, like logging output).

> I've been getting along with 'print' statements but that is getting
> old and somewhat cumbersome.

Whenever a simple output statement is too cumbersome for debugging, I
take it as a sign that the program is too cumbersome to follow.

My debugging questions at that point are best taken to the unit test
suite: record the questions and the expected answers, so that in the
future anyone can get the benefit of them in a repeatable and automated
fashion.

-- 
 \             ?The power of accurate observation is frequently called |
  `\        cynicism by those who don't have it.? ?George Bernard Shaw |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From nad at acm.org  Sat Aug 22 22:05:51 2009
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 19:05:51 -0700
Subject: logging SMTPhandler Error
References: 
	
	
	<87236fb1-c09f-46e8-8492-514ba000c74a@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

In article 
<87236fb1-c09f-46e8-8492-514ba000c74a at 24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
 Bev in TX  wrote:
> On Aug 22, 7:07?pm, Ned Deily  wrote:
> > [...] Or on OS X it's
> > not *too* difficult to set up a local host mailer using the
> > Apple-supplied prefix that would accept mail locally and forward it to a
> > more sophisticated remote mailer.

Um, notation fail:  s/prefix/Postfix/

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org



From code at pizzashack.org  Sat Aug 22 23:19:01 2009
From: code at pizzashack.org (Derek Martin)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 22:19:01 -0500
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: <0018e1a0$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 
	<0018e1a0$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <20090823031901.GX20434@dragontoe.org>

On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 02:55:51AM +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> > I can see how 012 can
> > be confusing to new programmers, but at least it's legible, and the
> > great thing about humans is that they can be taught (usually).
> 
> And the great thing is that now you get to teach yourself to stop writing 
> octal numbers implicitly and be write them explicitly with a leading 0o 
> instead :)

Sorry, I don't write them implicitly.  A leading zero explicitly
states that the numeric constant that follows is octal.  It is so in 6
out of 7 computer languages I have more than a passing familiarity
with (the 7th being scheme, which is a thing unto itself), including
Python.  It's that way on Bourne-compatible and POSIX-compatible Unix
shells (though it requires a leading backslash before the leading zero
there).  I'm quite certain it can not be the case on only those 6
languages that I happen to be familiar with...

While it may be true that people commonly write decimal numbers with
leading zeros (I dispute even this, having to my recollection only
recently seen it as part of some serial number, which in practice is
really more of a string identifier than a number, often containing
characters other than numbers), it's also true that in the context of
computer programming languages, for the last 40+ years, a number
represented with a leading zero is most often an octal number.  This
has been true even in Python for nearly *twenty years*.  Why the
sudden need to change it?

So no, I don't get to teach myself to stop writing octal numbers with
a leading zero.  Instead, I have to remember an exception to the rule.

Also I don't think it's exactly uncommon for computer languages to do
things differently than they are done in non-CS circles.  A couple of
easy examples: we do not write x+=y except in computer languages.  The
POSIX system call to create a file is called creat().  If you think
about it, I'm sure you can come up with lots of examples where even
Python takes liberties.  Is this a bad thing?  Not inherently, no.
Will it be confusing to people who aren't familiar with the usage?
Quite possibly, but that is not inherently bad either.  It's all about
context.

> Use of octal isn't common. 

It's common enough.  Peruse the include files for your C libraries, or
the source for your operating system's kernel, or system libraries,
and I bet you'll find plenty of octal.  I did.  [Note that it is
irrelevant that these are C/C++ files; here we are only concerned with
whether they use octal, not how it is represented therein.]  I'd guess
there's a fair chance that any math or scientific software package
uses octal.  Octal is a convenient way to represent bit fields that
naturally occur in groups of 3, of which there are potentially
limitless cases.  

> You've given two cases were octal notation is useful, but for every
> coder who frequently writes umasks on Unix systems, there are a
> thousand who don't.

I gave two cases that I use *daily*, or very nearly daily.  My hats
currently include system admin, SQA, and software development, and I
find it convenient to use octal in each of those.  But those are
hardly the only places where octal is useful.  Have a look at the
ncurses library, for example.  Given that Python has an ncurses
interface, I'm guessing it's used there too.  In fact if the Python
source had no octal in it, I would find that very surprising.

> It's no hardship to write 0o12 instead of 012.

Computer languages are not write-only, excepting maybe Perl. ;-)
Writing 0o12 presents no hardship; but I assert, with at least some
support from others here, that *reading* it does.

-- 
Derek D. Martin
http://www.pizzashack.org/
GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D

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From code at pizzashack.org  Sat Aug 22 23:32:03 2009
From: code at pizzashack.org (Derek Martin)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 22:32:03 -0500
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <20090823033203.GY20434@dragontoe.org>

On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 04:23:57PM -0700, James Harris wrote:
> You misunderstand. I was saying that taking a leading zero as
> indicating octal is archaic. Octal itself is fine where appropriate.

I don't see that the leading zero is any more archaic than the use of
octal itself...  Both originate from around the same time period, and
are used in the same cases.  We should just prohibit octal entirely
then.

But I suppose it depends on which definition of "archaic" you use.  In
the other common sense of the word, the leading zero is no more
archaic than the C programming language.  Let's ban the use of all
three. :)  (I believe C is still the language in which the largest
number of lines of new code are written, but if not, it's way up
there.)
 
> The chmod command doesn't require a leading zero.

No, but it doesn't need any indicator that the number given to it is
in octal; in the case of the command line tool, octal is *required*,
and the argument is *text*.  However, the chmod() system call, and the
interfaces to it in every language I'm familiar with that has one, do
require the leading zero (because that's how you represent octal).
Including Python, for some 20 years or so.

-- 
Derek D. Martin
http://www.pizzashack.org/
GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D

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From cri at tiac.net  Sat Aug 22 23:38:59 2009
From: cri at tiac.net (Richard Harter)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 03:38:59 GMT
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal
	notation
References: 
	
	
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
Message-ID: <4a90b50e.154654859@text.giganews.com>

On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:54:41 -0700 (PDT), James Harris
 wrote:

>On 22 Aug, 10:27, David <71da... at libero.it> wrote:
>
>... (snipped a discussion on languages and other systems interpreting
>numbers with a leading zero as octal)
>
>> > Either hexadecimal should have been 0h or octal should
>> > have been 0t :=3D)
>>
>>
>> I have seen the use of Q/q instead in order to make it clearer. I still
>> prefer Smalltalk's 16rFF and 8r377.
>>
>>
>> Two interesting options. In a project I have on I have also considered
>> using 0q as indicating octal. I maybe saw it used once somewhere else
>> but I have no idea where. 0t was a second choice and 0c third choice
>> (the other letters of oct). 0o should NOT be used for obvious reasons.
>>
>> So you are saying that Smalltalk has r where
>> r is presumably for radix? That's maybe best of all. It preserves the
>> syntactic requirement of starting a number with a digit and seems to
>> have greatest flexibility. Not sure how good it looks but it's
>> certainly not bad.

I opine that a letter is better; special characters are a
valuable piece of real estate.  However for floating point you
need at least three letters because a floating point number has
three parts: the fixed point point, the exponent base, and the
exponent.  Now we can represent the radices of the individual
parts with the 'r'scheme, e.g., 2r101001, but we need separate
letters to designate the exponent base and the exponent.  B and E
are the obvious choices, though we want to be careful about a
confusion with 'b' in hex.  For example, using 'R',

3R20.1B2E16Rac

is 20.1 in trinary (6 1/3) times 2**172 (hex ac).

I grant that this example looks a bit gobbledegookish, but normal
usage would be much simpler.  The notation doesn't handle
balanced trinary; however I opine that balanced trinary requires
special notation.

   
Richard Harter, cri at tiac.net
http://home.tiac.net/~cri, http://www.varinoma.com
No one asks if a tree falls in the forest 
if there is no one there to see it fall.


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Aug 23 00:07:05 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 23 Aug 2009 04:07:05 GMT
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: 
	<87d46ok948.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
Message-ID: <02a0b085$0$30337$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:04:17 -0500, Derek Martin wrote:

>> These human programmers, whether newbies or long-experienced, also deal
>> with decimal numbers every day, many of which are presented as a
>> sequence of digits with leading zeros ? and we continue to think of
>> them as decimal numbers regardless. Having the language syntax opposed
>> to that is
>  
> ...consistent with virtually every other popular programming language.

A mistake is still a mistake even if it shared with others.

Treating its with a lead zero as octal was a design error when it was 
first thought up (possibly in C?) and it remains a design error no matter 
how many languages copy it. I feel your pain of having to unlearn 
something you have learned, but just because you have been lead astray by 
the languages you use doesn't mean we should compound the error by 
leading the next generation of coders astray too.

Octal is of little importance today, as near as I can tell it only has 
two common uses in high level languages: file umasks and permissions on 
Unix systems. It simply isn't special enough to justify implicit notation 
that surprises people, leads to silent errors, and is inconsistent with 
standard mathematical notation and treatment of floats:

>>> 123.2000 # insignificant trailing zeroes don't matter
123.2
>>> 000123.2 # neither do insignificant leading zeroes
123.2
>>> 001.23e0023  # not even if it is an integer
1.23e+23
>>> 000123  # but here is matters
83


-- 
Steven


From goldtech at worldpost.com  Sun Aug 23 00:47:52 2009
From: goldtech at worldpost.com (goldtech)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 21:47:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Idle does not recognize PYTHONPATH
Message-ID: <1eaa9d66-b1ff-4d2d-961f-ee40054a0953@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

Idle does not recognize PYTHONPATH set in .bashrc. Starting Python
shell in the terminal sys.path shows the PYTHONPATH, but again not
shown in IDLE. This is a common problem but I could not find a fix.
Using Ubuntu 9.04. Python 2.6.

Thanks


From ak at nothere.com  Sun Aug 23 01:01:46 2009
From: ak at nothere.com (AK)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 01:01:46 -0400
Subject: How to 'de-slashify' a string?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4a8faa47$0$31283$607ed4bc@cv.net>	<00193b65$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<4a8fc3d1$0$22535$607ed4bc@cv.net>		<4a8fce05$0$31285$607ed4bc@cv.net>
	
Message-ID: <4a90cd3a$0$22525$607ed4bc@cv.net>

Vlastimil Brom wrote:
> 2009/8/22 AK :
>> Vlastimil Brom wrote:
>>> 2009/8/22 AK :
>>>> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 04:20:23 -0400, AK wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi, if I have a string '\\303\\266', how can I convert it to '\303\266'
>>>>>> in a general way?
>>>>> It's not clear what you mean.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you mean you have a string '\\303\\266', that is:
>>>>>
>>>>> backslash backslash three zero three backslash backslash two six six
>>>>>
>>>>> If so, then the simplest way is:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> s = r'\\303\\266'  # note the raw string
>>>>>>>> len(s)
>>>>> 10
>>>>>>>> print s
>>>>> \\303\\266
>>>>>>>> print s.replace('\\\\', '\\')
>>>>> \303\266
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Another possibility:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> s = '\\303\\266'  # this is not a raw string
>>>>>>>> len(s)
>>>>> 8
>>>>>>>> print s
>>>>> \303\266
>>>>>
>>>>> So s is:
>>>>> backslash three zero three backslash two six six
>>>>>
>>>>> and you don't need to do any more.
>>>> Well, I need the string itself to become '\303\266', not to print
>>>> that way. In other words, when I do 'print s', it should display
>>>> unicode characters if my term is set to show them, instead of
>>>> showing \303\266.
>>>>
>>>>>> The problem I'm running into is that I'm connecting with pygresql to a
>>>>>> postgres database and when I get fields that are of 'char' type, I get
>>>>>> them in unicode, but when I get fields of 'byte' type, I get the text
>>>>>> with quoted slashes, e.g. '\303' becomes '\\303' and so on.
>>>>> Is pygresql quoting the backslash, or do you just think it is quoting
>>>>> the
>>>>> backslashes? How do you know? E.g. if you have '\\303', what is the
>>>>> length
>>>>> of that? 4 or 5?
>>>> Length is 4, and I need it to be length of 1. E.g.:
>>>>
>>>>>>> s = '\303'
>>>>>>> s
>>>> '\xc3'
>>>>>>> x = '\\303'
>>>>>>> x
>>>> '\\303'
>>>>>>> len(x)
>>>> 4
>>>>>>> len(s)
>>>> 1
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What I get from pygresql is x, what I need is s. Either by asking
>>>> pygresql
>>>> to do this or convert it afterwards. I can't do replace('\\303', '\303')
>>>> because it can be any unicode character.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> AK
>>>> --
>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>> do you mean something like
>>>
>>>>>> u"\u0303"
>>> u'\u0303'
>>>>>> print u"\u0303"
>>> ?
>>>    ? (dec.: 771)  (hex.: 0x303)   ? COMBINING TILDE (Mark, Nonspacing)
>>> ?
>>>
>>> vbr
>> Yes, something like that except that it starts out as '\\303\\266', and it's
>> good enough for me if it turns into '\303\266', in fact that's rendered as
>> one unicode char. In other words, when you do:
>>
>>>>> print "\\303\\266"
>> '\303\266'
>>
>> I need that result to become a python string, i.e. the slashes need to
>> be converted from literal slashes to escape slashes.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> AK
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
> 
> Not sure, whether it is the right way of handling the such text data, but maybe:
> 
>>>> decoded = '\\303\\266'.decode("string_escape")
>>>> decoded
> '\xc3\xb6'
>>>> print decoded
> ??
>>>> print '\303\266'
> ??
> 
> It might be an IDLE issue, but it still isn't one unicode glyph.
> 
> I guess, you have to ensure, that the input data is valid and the
> right encoding is used.
> 
> hth
>   vbr

Actually, this works perfectly for me. It prints out as one character in
gnome-terminal and also when I write it to a text file, and open it as
utf-8 format in gnumeric, it also shows up properly.

Thanks to all who helped! -AK


From http  Sun Aug 23 01:27:57 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 22 Aug 2009 22:27:57 -0700
Subject: How to create functors?
References: 
	<7xab1vl0qf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
	<7xmy5uanlt.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
Message-ID: <7xljlbf6aq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Steven D'Aprano  writes:
> According to Wikipedia, functor can be used as a synonym for "function 
> object": ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Function_object

Hmm, I hadn't seen that usage before.  I guess there's no law against
it, but it seems a bit bogus to me.

> I find the Haskell page entirely opaque and unintelligible... The
> Wikipedia page is a little better

I thought it was the other way around, but I've been banging my head
against Haskell on and off for the past year or so, so it could be
that the Haskell page is more intelligible if the reader already has
some familiarity with Haskell and its type system.  

Here's another attempt of my own, from the mathematical perspective:
"categories" generalize the concept of structured collections of
objects.  For example, groups, rings, and sets are each a type of
structured collection, so there is a category of groups (called "Grp"
since for some reason categorists like to use capitalized, abbreviated
names), a category of rings ("Rng"), and a category of sets ("Set").
Each category has a collection of objects and a collection of "arrows"
(sometimes called morphisms) which are associative relations between
objects in the category.  So in the category of sets, the objects are
sets and the arrows are functions mapping one set to another.  In the
category of groups, the objects are groups and the arrows are the
homeomorphisms between groups.

Functors are mappings from one category to another, that map both the
objects and the arrows.  That is they are arrows on the categories of
categories.

The concepts of categories and functors came from the loftier reaches
of algebraic geometry (further in math than I ever got) in the 1950's
or so.  These days they turn out to be useful in studying type systems
of programming languages, which is where most of my exposure to them
has come from.

> But let me try an example to see if I've got it right:
> class Int2StrFunctor:
>     def map1(self, n):
>         if type(n) is not int:
>             raise TypeError('argument must be an int')

I don't think this is right.  A functor (in the PL sense that I've
been describing) acts on types, not on members of types.  That is,
your example turns "3" into "---", i.e. it turns a member of type
"int" into a member of type "str".  A functor would be something that
acts on arbitrary types, e.g. one might turn "int" into "array of
int", and "str" into "array of str" and so forth.  Another might turn
"int" into "red-black tree containing a pair of ints at each node" and
doing something similar with str.  The map1 and map2 functions (I
guess it is ok to call them that) are supposed to be generic.

I guess you could have a "String" functor whose map1 function is repr
and whose map2 functor is (lambda f: lambda x,f=f: repr(f(x))) or
something like that.  It would transport every type to the str type.

> There are some technical restrictions on functors, relating to the sorts 
> of functions and types (strictly "categories") they can accept, 
> presumably to make them mathematically well-behaved.

Right.


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Aug 23 01:48:34 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 22 Aug 2009 22:48:34 -0700
Subject: logging SMTPhandler Error
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
Ned Deily   wrote:
>
>Or on OS X it's not *too* difficult to set up a local host mailer using
>the Apple-supplied prefix that would accept mail locally and forward it
>to a more sophisticated remote mailer.

It's also not too difficult to do the moral equivalent with dnspython and
find the MX host for the domain you're trying to send e-mail to; that
usually does not require an encrypted connection.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I support family values -- Addams family values" --www.nancybuttons.com


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Aug 23 02:13:31 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 23 Aug 2009 06:13:31 GMT
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: 
	<0018e1a0$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <02a0ce27$0$30337$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 22:19:01 -0500, Derek Martin wrote:

> On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 02:55:51AM +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> > I can see how 012 can
>> > be confusing to new programmers, but at least it's legible, and the
>> > great thing about humans is that they can be taught (usually).
>> 
>> And the great thing is that now you get to teach yourself to stop
>> writing octal numbers implicitly and be write them explicitly with a
>> leading 0o instead :)
> 
> Sorry, I don't write them implicitly.  A leading zero explicitly states
> that the numeric constant that follows is octal.

That is incorrect.

Decimal numbers implicitly use base 10, because there's nothing in the 
literal 12340 (say) to indicate the base is ten, rather than 16 or 9 or 
23. Although implicit is usually bad, when it's as common and expected as 
decimal notation, it's acceptable.

Hex decimals explicitly use base 16, because the leading 0x is defined to 
mean "base 16". 0x is otherwise not a legal decimal number, or hex number 
for that matter. (It would be legal in base 34 or greater, but that's 
rare enough that we can ignore this.) For the bases we care about, a 
leading 0x can't have any other meaning -- there's no ambiguity, so we 
can treat it as a synonym for "base 16".

(Explicitness isn't a binary state, and it would be even more explicit if 
the base was stated in full, as in e.g. Ada where 16#FF# = decimal 255.)

However, octal numbers are defined implicitly: 012 is a legal base 10 
number, or base 3, or base 9, or base 16. There's nothing about a leading 
zero that says "base 8" apart from familiarity. We can see the difference 
between leading 0x and leading 0 if you repeat it: repeating an explicit 
0x, as in 0x0xFF, is a syntax error, while repeating an implicit 0 
silently does nothing different:

>>> 0x0xFF
  File "", line 1
    0x0xFF
         ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>>> 0077
63


> It is so in 6 out of 7
> computer languages I have more than a passing familiarity with (the 7th
> being scheme, which is a thing unto itself), including Python.  It's
> that way on Bourne-compatible and POSIX-compatible Unix shells (though
> it requires a leading backslash before the leading zero there).  I'm
> quite certain it can not be the case on only those 6 languages that I
> happen to be familiar with...

No, of course not. There are a bunch of languages, pretty much all 
heavily influenced by C, which treat integer literals with leading 0s as 
oct: C++, Javascript, Python 2.x, Ruby, Perl, Java. As so often is the 
case, C's design mistakes become common practice. Sigh.

However, there are many, many languages that don't, or otherwise do 
things differently to C. Even some modern C-derived languages reject the 
convention:

C# doesn't have octal literals at all.

As far as I can tell, Objective-C and Cocoa requires you to explicitly 
enable support for octal literals before you use them.

In D, at least some people want to follow Python's lead and either drop 
support for oct literals completely, or require a 0o prefix:
http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=2656

E makes a leading 0 a syntax error.


As far as other, non-C languages go, leading 0 = octal seems to be rare 
or non-existent:

Basic and VB use a leading &O for octal.

FORTRAN 90 uses a leading O (uppercase o) for octal, and surrounds the 
literal in quotation marks: O"12" would be ten in octal. 012 would be 
decimal 12.

As far as I can tell, COBOL also ignores leading zeroes.

Forth interprets literals according to the current value of BASE (which 
defaults to 10). There's no special syntax for it.To enter ten in octal, 
you might say:

8 BASE ! 12

or if your system provides it:

OCT 12

Standard Pascal ignores leading 0s in integers, and doesn't support octal 
at all. A leading $ is used for hex. At least one non-standard Pascal 
uses leading zero for octal.

Haskell requires an explicit 0o:
http://www.haskell.org/onlinereport/lexemes.html#lexemes-numeric

So does OCaml.

Ada uses decimal unless you explicitly give the base:
http://archive.adaic.com/standards/83lrm/html/lrm-02-04.html

Leading zeroes are insignificant in bc:

[steve at sylar ~]$ bc
bc 1.06
Copyright 1991-1994, 1997, 1998, 2000 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
This is free software with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY.
For details type `warranty'.
012 + 011
23

Leading zeroes are also insignificant in Hewlett-Packard RPN language 
(e.g. HP-48GX calculators), Hypertalk and languages derived from it.

I'm not sure, but it looks to me like Boo doesn't support octal literals, 
although it supports hex with 0x and binary with 0b.

Algol uses an explicit base: 8r12 to indicate octal 10.

Common Lisp and Scheme use a #o prefix.

As far as *languages* go, 0-based octal literals are in the tiny 
minority. As far as *programmers* go, it may be in a plurality, perhaps 
even a small minority, but remember there are still millions of VB 
programmers out there who are just as unfamiliar with C conventions.

> While it may be true that people commonly write decimal numbers with
> leading zeros (I dispute even this
[...]

Leading zeroes in decimal numbers are *very* common in dates and times.


[...]
> Given that Python has an ncurses interface, I'm
> guessing it's used there too.  In fact if the Python source had no octal
> in it, I would find that very surprising.

I can't see any oct literals in the standard library, not even in the 
ncurses interface, but then my grep-foo is weak and I may have made a 
mistake. I encourage you to look for yourself.


>> It's no hardship to write 0o12 instead of 012.
> 
> Computer languages are not write-only, excepting maybe Perl. ;-) Writing
> 0o12 presents no hardship; but I assert, with at least some support from
> others here, that *reading* it does.

No more so than 0x or 0b literals. If anything, 0o12 stands out as "not 
twelve" far more than 012 does.



-- 
Steven


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Sun Aug 23 03:10:22 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 09:10:22 +0200
Subject: Blank Line at Program Exit
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <200908230910.22246.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Thursday 20 August 2009 07:31:14 Steven Woody wrote:
> Hi,
> Any python program, even that does absolutely nothing in the code, will
> cause a blank line printed out when the program exit.  What's the reason?

not for me:

hvr at Linuxbox:~/Sasol/lib> cat blank.py

hvr at Linuxbox:~/Sasol/lib> python blank.py
hvr at Linuxbox:~/Sasol/lib>


- Hendrik



From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Sun Aug 23 03:21:54 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 09:21:54 +0200
Subject: your favorite debugging tool?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <200908230921.54199.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Saturday 22 August 2009 16:49:22 Aahz wrote:
> In article ,
>
> Esmail   wrote:
> >What is your favorite tool to help you debug your code? I've been
> >getting along with 'print' statements but that is getting old and
> >somewhat cumbersome.
>
> Despite the fact that I've been using Python for more than a decade,
> print is still my mainstay (or possibly logging to a file).

Same here, although I have not been abusing python for as long as Aahz has 
been using it.

I find that python pretty much does more or less what I expect it to, and 
where it does not, a print quickly gets me to RTFM when I have been rolling 
along under intuition.

And the final arbiter is of course the interactive prompt.

- Hendrik


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sun Aug 23 03:40:47 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 17:40:47 +1000
Subject: your favorite debugging tool?
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <873a7jhta8.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Hendrik van Rooyen  writes:

> And the final arbiter is of course the interactive prompt.

Oh yes, of course I forget to mention that!

Write your code so it can be imported, and write your functionality so
it has narrow interfaces, and you can do whatever inspection is needed
from the interactive prompt.

-- 
 \        ?We have to go forth and crush every world view that doesn't |
  `\                believe in tolerance and free speech.? ?David Brin |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 03:54:31 2009
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 00:54:31 -0700
Subject: your favorite debugging tool?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-22 07:25 AM, Esmail wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> What is your favorite tool to help you debug your
> code? I've been getting along with 'print' statements
> but that is getting old and somewhat cumbersome.
>
> I'm primarily interested in utilities for Linux (but
> if you have recommendations for Windows, I'll take
> them too :)
>
> I use emacs as my primary development environment, FWIW.
> Someone mentioned winpdb .. anyone have experience/comments
> on this? Others?

I am frequently in the IPython interactive prompt for testing out stuff and even 
as the main way of running my code. It has a nice feature that when you get a 
traceback, you can open up pdb post-mortem.

In [8]: def f(x):
    ...:     y = 1 / x
    ...:     return y
    ...:

In [9]: f(1)
Out[9]: 1

In [10]: f(0)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
ZeroDivisionError                         Traceback (most recent call last)

/Users/rkern/ in ()

/Users/rkern/ in f(x)

ZeroDivisionError: integer division or modulo by zero

In [11]: %debug
 > (2)f()

ipdb> print x
0


I have a little function that I've been using recently to print out the function 
I am currently in along with the arguments:


def whereami():
     """ Print the current function call.

     import kerntrace;kerntrace.whereami()
     """
     import inspect
     frame = inspect.currentframe(1)
     args, varargs, varkw, f_locals = inspect.getargvalues(frame)
     if args[:1] == ['self']:
         del args[0]
     print '%s%s' % (frame.f_code.co_name, inspect.formatargvalues(args, varargs,
         varkw, f_locals))


I think pdb is okay, but I am looking forward to pydbgr's completion.

   http://code.google.com/p/pydbgr/

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From sdementen at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 04:09:04 2009
From: sdementen at gmail.com (seb)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 01:09:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: conditional for-statement
Message-ID: 

Hi,

i was wondering if there is a syntax alike:

for i in range(10) if i > 5:
    print i

equivalent to

for i in (for i in range(10) if i>5):
    print i

sebastien


From benjamin at python.org  Sun Aug 23 04:12:40 2009
From: benjamin at python.org (Benjamin Peterson)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 08:12:40 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: conditional for-statement
References: 
Message-ID: 

seb  gmail.com> writes:

> 
> Hi,
> 
> i was wondering if there is a syntax alike:
> 
> for i in range(10) if i > 5:
>     print i

for i in range(10):
    if i > 5:
        print i






From bieffe62 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 04:12:52 2009
From: bieffe62 at gmail.com (Francesco Bochicchio)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 01:12:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: your favorite debugging tool?
References: 
Message-ID: <7694a678-fb08-4cd4-a1f7-de71e0a26cb2@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 22, 4:25?pm, Esmail  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> What is your favorite tool to help you debug your
> code? I've been getting along with 'print' statements
> but that is getting old and somewhat cumbersome.
>
> I'm primarily interested in utilities for Linux (but
> if you have recommendations for Windows, I'll take
> them too :)
>
> I use emacs as my primary development environment, FWIW.
> Someone mentioned winpdb .. anyone have experience/comments
> on this? Others?
>
> Thanks,
> Esmail

Although like the others I mostly use print statements, in a few
occasions I have found useful to resort to a full-blown debugger. Of
the ones I have used, the one provided by eclipse+pydev is the one I
liked most. The one in pywin32 IDE is basic but can be useful.
With emacs, one should be able to use pydb, but I never used that,
although emacs is my most used programming environment on most
platforms.

About print cumbersomeness, I agree. As I posted elsewhere, I'd like a
'trace mechanism' with the
following characteristics:
1. Can be enabled/disabled easily, and when it is dsabled it has no
runtime costs ( i.e. disabled 'trace' statements do not generate any
code)
2. Can be enabled/disabled on a class/function/method  base (e.g.
enable only the trace in a method ), to only get the trace output from
the code you are debugging
3. Make it easy to report the context (i.e. generate messages which
starts with 'class.method:', without
  hanving to hardcode class name and method name).

I know about the 'trace' and 'logging' modules, but neither seem to
satisfy the above requirements. Probably using python introspection
and metaprogramming features it is possible to do somethinmg that
covers at least 2 and 3. Not sure about one (using if __debug__ you
can reduce the runtime cost when
compiling in optimized mode, but probably not nullify it).

Ciao
-----
FB



From mailbox at dmitry-kazakov.de  Sun Aug 23 04:21:52 2009
From: mailbox at dmitry-kazakov.de (Dmitry A. Kazakov)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 10:21:52 +0200
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal
	notation
References: 
	
	
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
Message-ID: <1gl24ajxu6dsk.1btjdkwwj6m.dlg@40tude.net>

On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:54:41 -0700 (PDT), James Harris wrote:

> They look good - which is important. The trouble (for me) is that I
> want the notation for a new programming language and already use these
> characters. I have underscore as an optional separator for groups of
> digits - 123000 and 123_000 mean the same. The semicolon terminates a
> statement. Based on your second idea, though, maybe a colon could be
> used instead as in
> 
>   2:1011, 8:7621, 16:c26b
> 
> I don't (yet) use it as a range operator.
> 
> I could also use a hash sign as although I allow hash to begin
> comments it cannot be preceded by anything other than whitespace so
> these would be usable
> 
>   2#1011, 8#7621, 16#c26b
> 
> I have no idea why Ada which uses the # also apparently uses it to end
> a number
> 
>   2#1011#, 8#7621#, 16#c26b#

If you are going Unicode, you could use the mathematical notation, which is

   10112, 76218, c26b16

(subscript specification of the base). Yes, it might be difficult to type
(:-)), and would require some look-ahead in the parser. One of the
advantages of Ada notation, is that a numeric literal always starts with
decimal digit. That makes things simple for a descent recursive parser. I
guess this choice was intentional, back in 1983 a complex parser would eat
too much resources...

-- 
Regards,
Dmitry A. Kazakov
http://www.dmitry-kazakov.de


From bieffe62 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 04:30:16 2009
From: bieffe62 at gmail.com (Francesco Bochicchio)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 01:30:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: conditional for-statement
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 23, 10:09?am, seb  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> i was wondering if there is a syntax alike:
>
> for i in range(10) if i > 5:
> ? ? print i
>
> equivalent to
>
> for i in (for i in range(10) if i>5):
> ? ? print i
>
> sebastien

AFAIK, no syntax fo that. But the standard syntax is not too
different:

for i in range(0):
    if i > 5 : print i

Or you can use itertools.ifilter:

for i in itertools.ifilter( lambda x: x > 5, range(10) ):
     print i

Or, if you define a function corresponding to the loop body, you could
do something like:

map( print, (i for i in range(10) if i> 5 )) # only works if print is
a function



Ciao
----
FB





From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Sun Aug 23 05:09:20 2009
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (Bearophile)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 02:09:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References:  
	<0018e1a0$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	 
	<02a0ce27$0$30337$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <6b5ea596-d1e3-483d-ba79-7b139d3c7a47@z24g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

MRAB:

>'_': what if in the future we want to allow them in numbers for clarity?

Hettinger says it's hard (= requires too many changes) to do that and
Python programs don't have big integer constants often enough, so
probably that improvement will not see the light.

In the meantime in a Python program of mine I have put a small bug,
writing 1000000 instead of 10000000. Now in Python I write
10*1000*1000, because I try to learn from my bugs. In D I enjoy
writing 10_000_000.

-------------------------------

Steven D'Aprano:

> In D, at least some people want to follow Python's lead and either drop
> support for oct literals completely, or require a 0o prefix:http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=2656

Yes, people in the D community are trying to improve things, but it's
a slow and painful process, and often it goes nowhere. There's lot of
politics.

Bye,
bearophile


From harald.luessen at gmx.de  Sun Aug 23 05:12:43 2009
From: harald.luessen at gmx.de (Harald Luessen)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 11:12:43 +0200
Subject: IDLE file saving problem
References: <70222640-1990-4fae-bbca-8451d252a1ab@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <9d12959olkh5l3oamr9lfhedcrqd5nt7v7@4ax.com>

On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:48:56 -0700 (PDT), r  wrote:

>On Aug 21, 4:10?pm, MRAB  wrote:
>
>Yes, and much more needs improvement! I have made many changes already
>and i am polishing an "IDLE 3000" for the good people of Pythonia,
>stay tuned more to come....

There is a small little detail that nags me when I use IDLE:

When the cursor is somewhere in the white space at the
beginning of the lines and I use Ctrl-rightArrow  [ctrl]-[->]
to go to the first word in the line then IDLE skips
the position with the first non-whitespace letter and places
the cursor after the first word in the line.
This is not consistent because moving backwards works. [ctrl]-[<-]
Similar things happen at the end of a line.

I suggest that these movements should consider 'before the first' 
and 'after the last' text in the line as stop positions.

I think other editors do that, at least MS Visual Studio.

(The [pos1] alternating between first column and first text in line
does not help much.)

Harald



From 71david at libero.it  Sun Aug 23 05:50:30 2009
From: 71david at libero.it (David)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 11:50:30 +0200
Subject: conditional for-statement
References: 
Message-ID: 

Il Sun, 23 Aug 2009 01:09:04 -0700 (PDT), seb ha scritto:

> Hi,
> 
> i was wondering if there is a syntax alike:
> 
> for i in range(10) if i > 5:
>     print i

You can write

for i in filter(lambda i: i > 5, range(10)):
    print i

but 

for i in range(10):
    if i > 5:
        print i

it' better readable, and

for i in range(6,10):
    print i

it's event better.


From garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk  Sun Aug 23 06:08:43 2009
From: garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk (garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 10:08:43 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal
	notation
References: 
	
	
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
Message-ID: 

In comp.lang.python James Harris  wrote:
> On 22 Aug, 10:27, David <71da... at libero.it> wrote:

... 
>>
>> What about 2_1011, 8_7621, 16_c26h or 2;1011, 8;7621, 16;c26h ?
> 
> They look good - which is important. The trouble (for me) is that I
> want the notation for a new programming language and already use these
> characters. I have underscore as an optional separator for groups of
> digits - 123000 and 123_000 mean the same.

Why not just use the space? 123 000 looks better than 123_000, and 
is not syntactically ambiguous (at least in python). And as it
already works for string literals, it could be applied to numbers, too?

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------
| Radovan Garab?k http://kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk/~garabik/ |
| __..--^^^--..__    garabik @ kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk     |
 -----------------------------------------------------------
Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus.
Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!


From nmm1 at cam.ac.uk  Sun Aug 23 06:35:10 2009
From: nmm1 at cam.ac.uk (nmm1 at cam.ac.uk)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 11:35:10 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
Message-ID: 


I am interested in surveying people who want to interoperate between
Fortran and Python to find out what they would like to be able to do
more conveniently, especially with regard to types not supported for C
interoperability by the current Fortran standard.  Any suggestions as to
other ways that I could survey such people (Usenet is no longer as
ubiquitous as it used to be) would be welcomed.

My Email address is real, so direct messages will be received.

Specifically, I should like to know the answers to the following
questions:

    1) Do you want to use character strings of arbitrary length?

    2) Do you want to use Python classes with list members, where the
length of the list is not necessarily fixed for all instances of the
class?  Or, equivalently, Fortran derived types containing allocatable
or pointer arrays?

    2) Do you want to use Fortran derived types or Python classes that
contain type-bound procedures (including finalizers)?  Please answer
"yes" whether or nor you would like to call those type-bound procedures
from the other language.

    4) Do you want to call functions where the called language allocates
or deallocates arrays/lists/strings for use by the calling language?
Note that this is specifically Fortran->Python and Python->Fortran.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.


From countryone77 at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 23 06:57:49 2009
From: countryone77 at yahoo.com (Bev in TX)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 03:57:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: logging SMTPhandler Error
References: 
	 
	
	
Message-ID: <60de8d40-61f4-4ffd-bcef-749bf06675d0@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 23, 12:48?am, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
> It's also not too difficult to do the moral equivalent with dnspython and
> find the MX host for the domain you're trying to send e-mail to; that
> usually does not require an encrypted connection.
> --
> Aahz (a... at pythoncraft.com) ? ? ? ? ? <*> ? ? ? ?http://www.pythoncraft.com/
>
> "I support family values -- Addams family values" --www.nancybuttons.com

Thanks :-).  I'm not sure that I understand exactly what needs to be
done, but I'll read the documentation and see what I can come up with.

Bev in TX


From sp.bylc at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 07:26:35 2009
From: sp.bylc at gmail.com (newbie)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 04:26:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is Python what I need?
Message-ID: <224ed882-b78e-4b75-afa8-35c907096469@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

Hi all
I'm interested in developing computer based, interactive programs for
students in a special school who have an aversion to pen and paper.
I've searched the net to find ready made software that will meet my
needs but it is either written to a level much higher than these
students can cope with or priced beyond our school budget. I came
across a blog of someone singing the praises of Python. My question is
therefore aimed at those that know what they are talking about (ie
users in this group). Is Python the language I need to learn to
develop these programs?


From contact at xavierho.com  Sun Aug 23 07:42:30 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:42:30 +1000
Subject: Is Python what I need?
In-Reply-To: <224ed882-b78e-4b75-afa8-35c907096469@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
References: <224ed882-b78e-4b75-afa8-35c907096469@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908230442r32088956gb504b0149d2808a7@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 9:26 PM, newbie  wrote:

> Hi all
> I'm interested in developing computer based, interactive programs for
> students in a special school who have an aversion to pen and paper.


What sort of interactive program? Would it be educational, for example?


> I've searched the net to find ready made software that will meet my
> needs but it is either written to a level much higher than these
> students can cope with or priced beyond our school budget.


Could you give us the details of which software you've encountered that were
either too expensive or did not meet your needs?


> I came across a blog of someone singing the praises of Python. My question
> is
> therefore aimed at those that know what they are talking about (ie
> users in this group). Is Python the language I need to learn to
> develop these programs?


Any language can do the job. What a program does depends on the design, and
specification. Different languages simply have different behaviours, and
perhaps platform dependence and requirements. So, in some way, yes, Python
can do what you need, but you need to tell us in exact details what you were
really looking for.

Good luck,
Xav
-------------- next part --------------
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From 71david at libero.it  Sun Aug 23 08:01:41 2009
From: 71david at libero.it (David)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 14:01:41 +0200
Subject: your favorite debugging tool?
References: 
Message-ID: <142n6tb9nof0p$.1f2kw0c0vhj8u.dlg@40tude.net>

Il Sat, 22 Aug 2009 10:25:37 -0400, Esmail ha scritto:

> 
> I use emacs as my primary development environment, FWIW.
> Someone mentioned winpdb .. anyone have experience/comments
> on this? Others?

I use Winpdb on Windows and I feel quite comfortable. The interface is not
so clever as more advanced (and expensive, winpdb is free) debuggers but
there is all yuo need for deep-source debugging. 
It is especially suited for multi threaded programs and GUI debugging, where
command line debugging is a pain.
It supports remote debugging over encrypted connection also.

regards
David


From pengyu.ut at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 08:37:24 2009
From: pengyu.ut at gmail.com (Peng Yu)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 05:37:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Combining python and perl
Message-ID: <743337bf-487f-434d-b15c-4b675b6487f4@d21g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

According to http://www.python.org/doc/essays/comparisons.html, it
says

"Python and Perl come from a similar background (Unix scripting, which
both have long outgrown), and sport many similar features, but have a
different philosophy. Perl emphasizes support for common application-
oriented tasks, e.g. by having built-in regular expressions, file
scanning and report generating features. Python emphasizes support for
common programming methodologies such as data structure design and
object-oriented programming, and encourages programmers to write
readable (and thus maintainable) code by providing an elegant but not
overly cryptic notation. As a consequence, Python comes close to Perl
but rarely beats it in its original application domain; however Python
has an applicability well beyond Perl's niche."

My question is that how to combine both python and perl to take
advantages of both their strong aspects. Of course, I want to
primarily use python---that is why I send this message to this group.

I see a module 'perlmodule'. But I would like to know whether there
are other tips besides using 'perlmodule' to take perl's advantage in
python.

Regards,
Peng


From marduk at letterboxes.org  Sun Aug 23 09:00:00 2009
From: marduk at letterboxes.org (Albert Hopkins)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 09:00:00 -0400
Subject: Combining python and perl
In-Reply-To: <743337bf-487f-434d-b15c-4b675b6487f4@d21g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
References: <743337bf-487f-434d-b15c-4b675b6487f4@d21g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1251032400.19411.17.camel@centar.nbk>

On Sun, 2009-08-23 at 05:37 -0700, Peng Yu wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> According to http://www.python.org/doc/essays/comparisons.html, it
> says
> 
> "Python and Perl come from a similar background (Unix scripting, which
> both have long outgrown), and sport many similar features, but have a
> different philosophy. Perl emphasizes support for common application-
> oriented tasks, e.g. by having built-in regular expressions, file
> scanning and report generating features. Python emphasizes support for
> common programming methodologies such as data structure design and
> object-oriented programming, and encourages programmers to write
> readable (and thus maintainable) code by providing an elegant but not
> overly cryptic notation. As a consequence, Python comes close to Perl
> but rarely beats it in its original application domain; however Python
> has an applicability well beyond Perl's niche."
> 
> My question is that how to combine both python and perl to take
> advantages of both their strong aspects. Of course, I want to
> primarily use python---that is why I send this message to this group.

I'm not sure why you'd want to "combine" them.  You can pretty much do
the same things with both language, it's just that one may emphasize one
thing or make it easier for the user than the other.  For example,
regular expressions in Perl.  It's built into the language, but that
doesn't mean Python doesn't have regular expressions, just that Python
is less "centered" around them.  If you want to use regular expressions
with Python just "import re".

-a




From motoom at xs4all.nl  Sun Aug 23 09:05:51 2009
From: motoom at xs4all.nl (Michiel Overtoom)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 15:05:51 +0200
Subject: your favorite debugging tool?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A913EAF.8050703@xs4all.nl>

Esmail wrote:

> What is your favorite tool to help you debug your
> code? 

import pdb
pdb.set_trace()

pdb has commands to inspect code, variables, set breakpoints, watches, 
walk up and down stack frames, single-step through the program, run the 
rest of the function, run until return, etc...

http://www.ferg.org/papers/debugging_in_python.html

http://onlamp.com/pub/a/python/2005/09/01/debugger.html

http://plone.org/documentation/how-to/using-pdb

http://docs.python.org/library/pdb.html

Greetings,

-- 
"The ability of the OSS process to collect and harness
the collective IQ of thousands of individuals across
the Internet is simply amazing." - Vinod Valloppillil
http://www.catb.org/~esr/halloween/halloween4.html


From narkewoody at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 09:07:53 2009
From: narkewoody at gmail.com (Steven Woody)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:07:53 +0800
Subject: Blank Line at Program Exit
In-Reply-To: <20090822152515.GC10584@sevilla.sacredchaos.com>
References: 
	<20090822152515.GC10584@sevilla.sacredchaos.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 11:25 PM, Nitebirdz wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 01:31:14PM +0800, Steven Woody wrote:
> > Hi,
> > Any python program, even that does absolutely nothing in the code, will
> > cause a blank line printed out when the program exit.  What's the reason?
> >  Thanks.
> >
>
> Chances are it is related to whichever operating system and/or shell you
> are using.  For instance, this is taken from a system running Ubuntu
> Linux 8.04:
>
> -------------------------------------------------
> laptop:$ cat hello.py
> #!/usr/bin/env python
>
> print "Hello, there!"
> laptop:$ ./hello.py
> Hello, there!
> laptop:$ cat nothing.py
> #!/usr/bin/env python
>
> laptop:$ ./nothing.py
> laptop:$
> -------------------------------------------------
>
>
> As you can see, no blank line was printed out.
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

Hi,
I am using cywin on XP.

-- 
Life is the only flaw in an otherwise perfect nonexistence
   -- Schopenhauer

narke
public key at http://subkeys.pgp.net:11371 (narkewoody at gmail.com)
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From visionat at mail.infochan.com  Sun Aug 23 09:08:52 2009
From: visionat at mail.infochan.com (viper-2)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 06:08:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
Message-ID: <1f39d176-28e4-4e4f-a4d1-b3168349510b@34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 23, 6:35 am, n... at cam.ac.uk wrote:
> I am interested in surveying people who want to interoperate between
> Fortran and Python to find out what they would like to be able to do
> more conveniently, especially with regard to types not supported for C
> interoperability by the current Fortran standard.  

Python is still on my "to do" list, but I know I'll be interested in
the following:

>     1) Do you want to use character strings of arbitrary length?
>

Yes

>     2) Do you want to use Python classes with list members, where the
> length of the list is not necessarily fixed for all instances of the
> class?  Or, equivalently, Fortran derived types containing allocatable
> or pointer arrays?
>

Yes

>     2) Do you want to use Fortran derived types or Python classes that
> contain type-bound procedures (including finalizers)?  Please answer
> "yes" whether or nor you would like to call those type-bound procedures
> from the other language.
>

Don't know yet

>     4) Do you want to call functions where the called language allocates
> or deallocates arrays/lists/strings for use by the calling language?
> Note that this is specifically Fortran->Python and Python->Fortran.
>

Yes

agt


--
Freedom - no pane, all gaiGN!

Code Art Now
http://codeartnow.com
Email: agt at codeartnow.com



From narkewoody at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 09:09:24 2009
From: narkewoody at gmail.com (Steven Woody)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:09:24 +0800
Subject: How to distribute an application
Message-ID: 

Hi,
My application contains a main python source file as well as a set of
modules (also .py files).  Now, I am considering distribute my application
to others. But the distutils seems made for distributing packages not for
main applications.  Am I right?  Thanks.


-- 
Life is the only flaw in an otherwise perfect nonexistence
   -- Schopenhauer

narke
public key at http://subkeys.pgp.net:11371 (narkewoody at gmail.com)
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From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Aug 23 09:11:05 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 23 Aug 2009 06:11:05 -0700
Subject: Dictionary from a list
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
EK   wrote:
>On Aug 20, 2:10=A0pm, Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
>> 
>> >>> from itertools import izip
>> >>> it =3D iter([1,2,3,4,5,6])
>> >>> dict(izip(it, it))
>>
>> {1: 2, 3: 4, 5: 6}
>
>dict(zip(*[iter(l)]*2))

No, that's not a good solution.  For starters, it's less readable than
Peter's version.  More importantly, it has poor memory use because it
needs to construct both the intermediate tuple and the zip() list.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I support family values -- Addams family values" --www.nancybuttons.com


From matthew at woodcraft.me.uk  Sun Aug 23 09:13:32 2009
From: matthew at woodcraft.me.uk (Matthew Woodcraft)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 13:13:32 GMT
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: 
	<0018e1a0$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<20090823031901.GX20434@dragontoe.org>
	
Message-ID: <87fxbifzb7.fsf@golux.woodcraft.me.uk>

Dennis Lee Bieber  writes:
> 	About the only place one commonly sees leading zeros on decimal
> numbers, in my experience, is zero-filled COBOL data decks (and since
> classic COBOL stores in BCD anyway... binary (usage is
> computational/comp-1) was a later add-on to the data specification model
> as I recall...)

A more common case is dates.

I've seen people trip over this writing things like

xxx = [
    date(2009, 10, 12),
    date(2009, 12, 26),
    date(2010, 02, 09),
]

-M-


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Aug 23 09:14:00 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 23 Aug 2009 06:14:00 -0700
Subject: logging SMTPhandler Error
References: 
	
	
	<60de8d40-61f4-4ffd-bcef-749bf06675d0@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

In article <60de8d40-61f4-4ffd-bcef-749bf06675d0 at k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
Bev in TX   wrote:
>On Aug 23, 12:48=A0am, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
>>
>> It's also not too difficult to do the moral equivalent with dnspython and
>> find the MX host for the domain you're trying to send e-mail to; that
>> usually does not require an encrypted connection.
>
>Thanks :-).  I'm not sure that I understand exactly what needs to be
>done, but I'll read the documentation and see what I can come up with.

Slightly expanded: most mail servers accept connections from any other
mail server for addresses that are hosted by them.  The MX address for a
domain tells you what mail server hosts that address.  By connecting
directly to the MX, your script is essentially acting as a mail server
itself.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I support family values -- Addams family values" --www.nancybuttons.com


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sun Aug 23 10:01:46 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 00:01:46 +1000
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal
	notation
References: 
	
	
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
Message-ID: <87ljlahbn9.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk writes:

> Why not just use the space? 123 000 looks better than 123_000, and is
> not syntactically ambiguous (at least in python). And as it already
> works for string literals, it could be applied to numbers, too?

+1 to all this. I think this discussion was had many months ago, but
can't recall how it ended back then.

-- 
 \              ?Only the educated are free.? ?Epictetus, _Discourses_ |
  `\                                                                   |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Sun Aug 23 10:21:27 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 16:21:27 +0200
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4a915067$0$31339$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>

nmm1 at cam.ac.uk wrote:
> I am interested in surveying people who want to interoperate between
> Fortran and Python to find out what they would like to be able to do
> more conveniently, especially with regard to types not supported for C
> interoperability by the current Fortran standard.  Any suggestions as to
> other ways that I could survey such people (Usenet is no longer as
> ubiquitous as it used to be) would be welcomed.

You might want to ask also on the Cython, NumPy and SciPy mailing lists.
NumPy and SciPy have a rather large audience of scientific developers, and
Cython has a running sub-project on providing better Fortran integration
(which might be of interest to you anyway).

Stefan


From jcd at sdf.lonestar.org  Sun Aug 23 10:35:22 2009
From: jcd at sdf.lonestar.org (J. Cliff Dyer)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 10:35:22 -0400
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal
	notation
In-Reply-To: <87ljlahbn9.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: 
	
	
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	  <87ljlahbn9.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <1251038122.7067.29.camel@webb>

I had an objection to using spaces in numeric literals last time around
and it still stands, and it still stands in the new one.

What happens if you use a literal like 0x10f 304?  Is 304 treated as
decimal or hexadecimal?  It's not clear how you would begin to combine
it   The way string concatenation works, it takes two independent string
literals, and combines them.  If you specify r'\n' 'abc\n', the first
half is treated independently as a raw string, and the second half is
treated as a normal string.  The result is '\\nabc\n'.

With numeric literals, this behavior doesn't even make sense.  How do
you concatenate hex 10f with decimal 304?  I suppose you could multiply
0x10f by 1000, and add them, but this probably wouldn't fit any
practical usecase.  

Alternatively, you could raise an exception, and require the user to use
numeric literals of the same type, like 0x10f 0x304, but then you lose
any readability benefit you might have gained by dropping the _ to begin
with.  

If, on the other hand, you want to combine the tokens before processing
their independent meanings, which makes the most intuitive sense, well,
in that case we're no longer talking about an operation analogous to
string contcatenation.  We're talking about integers no longer being
simple tokens that can be assigned a value.  I'm not familiar with the
code that makes all this happen in C Python (or any other implementation
for that matter), but it seems like it extends the complexity of the
parser unnecessarily. 

I'm concerned that the benefit in readability will be outweighed by the
burden it places on the parser, and the cognitive burden on the
programmer of knowing what to expect when using non-decimal numeric
literals.  For that reason, I'm a -1 on using a space in numeric
literals, but +1 on using some other separator, and an _, in spite of
its slight awkwardness in typing, seems like a good idea.

If someone with a solid understanding of the python parser could chime
in that this wouldn't cause as much friction as I think, and explain a
clean, elegant implementation for this, many of my concerns would be
alleviated, and I would change my -1 to a -0.

Cheers,
Cliff


On Mon, 2009-08-24 at 00:01 +1000, Ben Finney wrote:
> garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk writes:

> > Why not just use the space? 123 000 looks better than 123_000, and is
> > not syntactically ambiguous (at least in python). And as it already
> > works for string literals, it could be applied to numbers, too?
> 
> +1 to all this. I think this discussion was had many months ago, but
> can't recall how it ended back then.
> 
> -- 
>  \              ?Only the educated are free.? ?Epictetus, _Discourses_ |
>   `\                                                                   |
> _o__)                                                                  |
> Ben Finney



From ryniek90 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 10:39:42 2009
From: ryniek90 at gmail.com (Ryniek90)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 16:39:42 +0200
Subject: IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename:  in windows
	xp while making tarfile
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A9154AE.1000609@gmail.com>

Hi
I've got my backup script which opens tarfile for add chosen file to it. 
But while setting it up, i've got Traceback:
here's the url: -->http://paste.ubuntu.com/258081/<--

I have searched among google's result but didn't found anything useful. 
Only found info that it may be the backslashes fault in path, but i have 
written proper the path.

Here's link to my script paste: http://paste.ubuntu.com/258087/

Is its the '|\U' literal fault in path '|C:\\Users\\Ryniek's 
WinSe7en\\MyNewGGBackup(2009-08-23 14:59:02).tar.bz2|' ?

Sorry if i'm annoying but i'm still learning.
|


From phillip.oldham at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 11:02:34 2009
From: phillip.oldham at gmail.com (Phillip B Oldham)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 08:02:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Most "active" coroutine library project?
Message-ID: <64183b73-9cb0-4ce1-98d0-f47e13a818e4@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

I've been taking a look at the multitude of coroutine libraries
available for Python, but from the looks of the projects they all seem
to be rather "quiet". I'd like to pick one up to use on a current
project but can't deduce which is the most popular/has the largest
community.

Libraries I looked at include: cogen, weightless, eventlet and
circuits (which isn't exactly coroutine-based but it's event-driven
model was intriguing).

Firstly, are there any others I've missed? And what would the
consensus be on the which has the most active community behind it?


From victorsubervi at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 11:04:57 2009
From: victorsubervi at gmail.com (Victor Subervi)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 10:04:57 -0500
Subject: Trying To Catch Invalid User Input
Message-ID: <4dc0cfea0908230804o29a328ecmdb99af2ef790f5ac@mail.gmail.com>

Hi;
I have the following:

style = raw_input('What style is this? (1 = short, 2 = long): ')
flag = 0
while flag == 0:
  if (style != 1) or (style != 2):
    style = raw_input('There was a mistake. What style is this? (1 = short,
2 = long): ')
  else:
    flag = 1

I would think this would catch errors and permit valid values, but it
doesn't. If I enter an erroneous value the first time, and the second time a
good value, it doesn't break the loop. Why?
TIA,
Victor
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From doctoresam at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 11:12:26 2009
From: doctoresam at gmail.com (Deep_Feelings)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 08:12:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: can python make web applications?
Message-ID: 

can python make powerfull database web applications that can replace
desktop database applications? e.g: entrprise accounting
programs,enterprise human resource management programs ...etc


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Sun Aug 23 11:17:56 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 08:17:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
Message-ID: <1032c78d-d4dd-41c0-a877-b85ca000d871@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On 23 Aug, 12:35, n... at cam.ac.uk wrote:

> I am interested in surveying people who want to interoperate between
> Fortran and Python to find out what they would like to be able to do
> more conveniently, especially with regard to types not supported for C
> interoperability by the current Fortran standard. ?Any suggestions as to
> other ways that I could survey such people (Usenet is no longer as
> ubiquitous as it used to be) would be welcomed.

I think you will find that 99.9% of Python and Fortran programmers are
scientists and engineers that also use NumPy and f2py. Go to scipy.org
and ask your question on the numpy mailing list.

Regards,
Sturla Molden





From __peter__ at web.de  Sun Aug 23 11:31:47 2009
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 17:31:47 +0200
Subject: Is Python what I need?
References: <224ed882-b78e-4b75-afa8-35c907096469@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

newbie wrote:

> I'm interested in developing computer based, interactive programs for
> students in a special school who have an aversion to pen and paper.
> I've searched the net to find ready made software that will meet my
> needs but it is either written to a level much higher than these
> students can cope with or priced beyond our school budget. I came
> across a blog of someone singing the praises of Python. My question is
> therefore aimed at those that know what they are talking about (ie
> users in this group). Is Python the language I need to learn to
> develop these programs?

>From the distance it looks like these children need a good teacher rather 
than a bad (or just starting) programmer. They need goals they can 
understand and share, not yet another tool.

But it's interactive? Yeah, three canned answers instead of just one...

That said, Python is a good language for the casual developer. You can whack 
together something pretty quickly. It may not be perfect, but you don't 
waste time on administrative overhead either.

Peter



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sun Aug 23 11:36:10 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 16:36:10 +0100
Subject: Trying To Catch Invalid User Input
In-Reply-To: <4dc0cfea0908230804o29a328ecmdb99af2ef790f5ac@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4dc0cfea0908230804o29a328ecmdb99af2ef790f5ac@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A9161EA.5050602@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Victor Subervi wrote:
> Hi;
> I have the following:
> 
> style = raw_input('What style is this? (1 = short, 2 = long): ')
> flag = 0
> while flag == 0:
>   if (style != 1) or (style != 2):
>     style = raw_input('There was a mistake. What style is this? (1 = 
> short, 2 = long): ')
>   else:
>     flag = 1
> 
> I would think this would catch errors and permit valid values, but it 
> doesn't. If I enter an erroneous value the first time, and the second 
> time a good value, it doesn't break the loop. Why?
> 
This is wrong:

     (style != 1) or (style != 2)

For example, if style is 1 (which should be a valid value):

     (style != 1) or (style != 2)
  => (1     != 1) or (1     != 2)
  => False        or True
  => True

What you mean is:

     (style != 1) and (style != 2)


From rtomek at ceti.com.pl  Sun Aug 23 11:36:32 2009
From: rtomek at ceti.com.pl (Tomasz Rola)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 17:36:32 +0200
Subject: Is Python what I need?
In-Reply-To: <224ed882-b78e-4b75-afa8-35c907096469@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
References: <224ed882-b78e-4b75-afa8-35c907096469@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 23 Aug 2009, newbie wrote:

> Hi all
> I'm interested in developing computer based, interactive programs for
> students in a special school who have an aversion to pen and paper.
> I've searched the net to find ready made software that will meet my
> needs but it is either written to a level much higher than these
> students can cope with or priced beyond our school budget. I came
> across a blog of someone singing the praises of Python. My question is
> therefore aimed at those that know what they are talking about (ie
> users in this group). Is Python the language I need to learn to
> develop these programs?

Perhaps, maybe, yes.

Python has simple syntax and it can be grasped quite fast. It is also 
quite easy IMHO to go from easy interactive, calculator-like stuff to 
bigger things. It also has quite big library of specialized functions, to 
be used in bigger programs.

So if this is what you are looking for, it seems you are in the right 
place.

You may also have a look at Squeak. It is an implementation of Smalltalk 
language. As far as I can tell, it is targeted for kid users or young 
students, who are interested in programming.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smalltalk
http://www.squeak.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squeak

Or, I mean, Smalltalk is a general purpose language, just as Python. It is 
not a "kid language". Squeak, however, seems to be a bit easier for new 
users. After tinkering with it a little, I think it has few batteries not 
only included (like Python has) but connected to few toys as well. This 
makes it more playable than Python after unpacking the box.

Wrt languages, their "goodness" or differences between them - I am pretty 
much sure a number of people will start pointing them out to you. But I 
don't think this is really that much important. All languages are more or 
less similar because they serve the same purpose. Just try and do not use 
(Visual) Basic :-) and you should be ok. Well, maybe this is just me, but 
I consider VB to be a dead-end. Besides, if this is going to be "let's 
show them how interesting it is", you should stay away from languages more 
complicated, like Java. Those who are going to learn Java, will learn it 
anyway. Knowing something different and cool first should not kill them. 
Quite the contrary, it can be an eye opener.

Regards
Tomasz Rola

--
** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature.      **
** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home    **
** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened...      **
**                                                                 **
** Tomasz Rola          mailto:tomasz_rola at bigfoot.com             **


From gherron at islandtraining.com  Sun Aug 23 11:37:26 2009
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 08:37:26 -0700
Subject: Trying To Catch Invalid User Input
In-Reply-To: <4dc0cfea0908230804o29a328ecmdb99af2ef790f5ac@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4dc0cfea0908230804o29a328ecmdb99af2ef790f5ac@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A916236.6070007@islandtraining.com>

Victor Subervi wrote:
> Hi;
> I have the following:
>
> style = raw_input('What style is this? (1 = short, 2 = long): ')
> flag = 0
> while flag == 0:
>   if (style != 1) or (style != 2):
>     style = raw_input('There was a mistake. What style is this? (1 = 
> short, 2 = long): ')
>   else:
>     flag = 1
>
> I would think this would catch errors and permit valid values, but it 
> doesn't. If I enter an erroneous value the first time, and the second 
> time a good value, it doesn't break the loop. Why?
> TIA,
> Victor
First, raw_input will not return an integer, but rather characters, so 
the value of style will never be 1 or 2, but rather '1', or '2'.  

But even if you make your comparisons against  '1' and '2', this will 
not work since you've also made a simple logic error.  The conditional
  if (style != '1') or (style != '2'):
will always be True no matter what value  style has.  For instance
if style is '1', then the conditional evaluates like
  (False) or (True)
which evaluates to True. 

You want one of the following:
  if (style != '1') and (style != '2'):
or
  if not (style == '1' or style == '2'):
or
  if style == '1' or style == '2':
    flag = 1
  ...
or
  if style in ['1','2']:
    flag = 1
  ...
or better yet dispense with flag altogether
  while style not in ['1','2']:
    style = raw_input('There was a mistake ...

Gary Herron






From python-url at phaseit.net  Sun Aug 23 11:54:40 2009
From: python-url at phaseit.net (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 15:54:40 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Aug 23)
Message-ID: 

QOTW:  "... [O]nce you accept that text is best handled in Unicode, there's
little sense in making an exception for the limited subset that happens to
be representable in ASCII." - Ben Finney
    http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/msg/accc8c2ae9d7ed15

    
    Python 3.1.1 released:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/f34c4b07a61f4414/
    
    Parallelization in Python 2.6:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/c8169c393e58a5d5/
    
    012=3D=3D10, a relic from ancient times, is finally gone:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/3bc42fffb012635b/
    
    How to ensure a method is actually implemented in a derived class:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/42d0ec54b7683f23/
    
    Is this community sexist? (Also, etymology of the word
    "guy" < "Guy" ~ "Guido")
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/7a190c24d8025bb4/
    
    A "for" loop using range() is inefficient, but other Python variants
    are able to optimize it:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/27df793be6f5675/
    
    The scope of names inside a "class" statement:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/4a244346dc9a5f15/
    
    Counting how many times items from a set appear on a given list:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/fb0580cefff96682/
    
    Construct a dictionary from a list [key,value,key,value,...] (many
    recipes!):
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/e16e180b5f61f748/
    
    And more recipes: format a number with thousand separators:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/2eb729797f162a6e/
    
    Code style: how to write a long conditional expression:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/6876917a4d579d59/
    
    On the concept of "functor" and how it may be applied to Python:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/8fbc7ad2ec11841c/
    
    
========================================================================
Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    marvelous daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily

    Just beginning with Python?  This page is a great place to start:
	http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide/Programmers

    The Python Papers aims to publish "the efforts of Python enthusiasts":
	http://pythonpapers.org/
    The Python Magazine is a technical monthly devoted to Python:
	http://pythonmagazine.com

    Readers have recommended the "Planet" sites:
	http://planetpython.org
	http://planet.python.org

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python.announce/topics

    Python411 indexes "podcasts ... to help people learn Python ..."
    Updates appear more-than-weekly:
        http://www.awaretek.com/python/index.html

    The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
        http://www.python.org/pypi/

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
    match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
    subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
        http://www.pythonology.com/success

    The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
    Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
    responsibility for Python's development and maintenance.
        http://www.python.org/psf/
    Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
        http://www.python.org/psf/donations/

    The Summary of Python Tracker Issues is an automatically generated
    report summarizing new bugs, closed ones, and patch submissions. 
        http://search.gmane.org/?author=status%40bugs.python.org&group=gmane.comp.python.devel&sort=date

    Although unmaintained since 2002, the Cetus collection of Python
    hyperlinks retains a few gems.
        http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
    interesting recipes.
	http://code.activestate.com/recipes/langs/python/

    Many Python conferences around the world are in preparation.
    Watch this space for links to them.

    Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available, see:
        http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
    For more, see:
        http://www.syndic8.com/feedlist.php?ShowMatch=python&ShowStatus=all
    The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
    SourceForge reincarnation.
        http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
	http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0042/

    del.icio.us presents an intriguing approach to reference commentary.
    It already aggregates quite a bit of Python intelligence.
        http://del.icio.us/tag/python

    Enjoy the *Python Magazine*.
	http://pymag.phparch.com/

    *Py: the Journal of the Python Language*
        http://www.pyzine.com

    Dr.Dobb's Portal is another source of Python news and articles:
        http://www.ddj.com/TechSearch/searchResults.jhtml?queryText=python
    and Python articles regularly appear at IBM DeveloperWorks:
        http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/search/searchResults.jsp?searchSite=dW&searchScope=dW&encodedQuery=python&rankprofile=8

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://search.gmane.org/?query=python+URL+weekly+news+links&group=gmane.comp.python.general&sort=date
  http://groups.google.com/groups/search?q=Python-URL!+group%3Acomp.lang.python&start=0&scoring=d&
  http://lwn.net/Search/DoSearch?words=python-url&ctype3=yes&cat_25=yes

There is *not* an RSS for "Python-URL!"--at least not yet.  Arguments
for and against are occasionally entertained.


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
E-mail to  should get through.

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning
(approximately), ask  to subscribe.  Mention
"Python-URL!".  Write to the same address to unsubscribe.


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Phaseit, Inc. (http://phaseit.net) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.  Watch this space for upcoming
news about posting archives.


From claird at lairds.us  Sun Aug 23 11:55:11 2009
From: claird at lairds.us (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 15:55:11 +0000
Subject: [Diversity] Language note
References: <20090807143826.GA19246@panix.com>
	
	<12470af00908080943g1e559273sdd5e4fc92336a5eb@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
Rami Chowdhury   wrote:
>
>> Most indian languages have a different
>> grammer (compared to English). So i'm curious to see how that would be
>> implemented in a parser
>
>+1 -- I'd be interested in seeing this too, although we have drifted  
>OT here and perhaps this conversation would be better had on Python- 
>list. The closest I've seen to a language being able to support  
>different grammatical structures is Perligata (http:// 
>www.csse.monash.edu.au/~damian/papers/HTML/Perligata.html), does  
>Python have anything similar?
			.
			.
			.
Yes and no.

There's considerably more to say on the subject than my own
patience permits for now.  Highlights, though:  I regard it
as a big deal whether a language permits Unicode in spelling
variable names (Python 3 does, despite ,
and presumably you know the situation in Perl); languages like
Lisp, Forth, and Tcl have minimal syntax, and rich traditions
of construction of problem-specific "little languages", so it's
common in them to see, for example, object orientation modeled
with a variety of lexical orders; and my own favorite
"little-language" work in Python has generally modeled VSO 
human languages.


From bartc at freeuk.com  Sun Aug 23 11:57:57 2009
From: bartc at freeuk.com (bartc)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 15:57:57 GMT
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal
	notation
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
Message-ID: <9Gdkm.71135$OO7.46868@text.news.virginmedia.com>


 wrote in message 
news:h6r4fb$18a$1 at aioe.org...
> In comp.lang.python James Harris  wrote:
>> On 22 Aug, 10:27, David <71da... at libero.it> wrote:
>
> ...
>>>
>>> What about 2_1011, 8_7621, 16_c26h or 2;1011, 8;7621, 16;c26h ?
>>
>> They look good - which is important. The trouble (for me) is that I
>> want the notation for a new programming language and already use these
>> characters. I have underscore as an optional separator for groups of
>> digits - 123000 and 123_000 mean the same.
>
> Why not just use the space? 123 000 looks better than 123_000, and
> is not syntactically ambiguous (at least in python).

If the purpose is to allow "_" to introduce a non-base ten literal, using 
this to enter a hexadecimal number might result in:

16_1234 ABCD

I'd say that that was ambiguous (depending on whether a name can follow a 
number; if you have a operator called ABCD, then that would be a problem). 
Unless each block of digits used it's own base:

16_1234 16_ABCD


> And as it
> already works for string literals, it could be applied to numbers, too?

String literals are conveniently surround by quotes, so they're a bit easier 
to recognise.

-- 
Bart 



From marduk at letterboxes.org  Sun Aug 23 12:08:02 2009
From: marduk at letterboxes.org (Albert Hopkins)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 12:08:02 -0400
Subject: Trying To Catch Invalid User Input
In-Reply-To: <4A9161EA.5050602@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <4dc0cfea0908230804o29a328ecmdb99af2ef790f5ac@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A9161EA.5050602@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <1251043682.19411.38.camel@centar.nbk>

On Sun, 2009-08-23 at 16:36 +0100, MRAB wrote:
> Victor Subervi wrote:
> > Hi;
> > I have the following:
> > 
> > style = raw_input('What style is this? (1 = short, 2 = long): ')
> > flag = 0
> > while flag == 0:
> >   if (style != 1) or (style != 2):
> >     style = raw_input('There was a mistake. What style is this? (1 = 
> > short, 2 = long): ')
> >   else:
> >     flag = 1
> > 
> > I would think this would catch errors and permit valid values, but it 
> > doesn't. If I enter an erroneous value the first time, and the second 
> > time a good value, it doesn't break the loop. Why?
> > 
> This is wrong:
> 
>      (style != 1) or (style != 2)
> 
> For example, if style is 1 (which should be a valid value):
> 
>      (style != 1) or (style != 2)
>   => (1     != 1) or (1     != 2)
>   => False        or True
>   => True
> 
> What you mean is:
> 
>      (style != 1) and (style != 2)

Or (perhaps) better:

VALID_STYLES = {1: 'short', 2: 'long'}

style = None
while style not in VALID_STYLES:
    style = raw_input('What style is this? %s: ' %
        str(VALID_STYLES).replace(':', ' ='))
    
    # also, raw_input() returns a string
    try:
        style = int(style)
    except ValueError:
        pass




From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Sun Aug 23 12:12:50 2009
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 09:12:50 -0700
Subject: generate keyboard/mouse event under windows
In-Reply-To: <9f107280-5d5c-4e6e-b47b-779e8012fdbc@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
References: <96047669-1bfd-4dbe-bed8-fafea07bbc5a@z34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	
	<9f107280-5d5c-4e6e-b47b-779e8012fdbc@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Ray wrote:
> On Aug 19, 2:07 pm, yaka  wrote:
>> Read this and see if it helps:
>>
>> http://kvance.livejournal.com/985732.html
> 
> is there a way to generate a 'true' keyboard event? (works like user
> pressed a key on keyboard)
> not send the 'send keyboard event to application' ?

If there is such a spot, it is a major security weakness.
You'd be able to automate password attacks.

--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From jjposner at optimum.net  Sun Aug 23 12:18:43 2009
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 12:18:43 -0400
Subject: conditional for-statement
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A916BE3.5010804@optimum.net>


>> Hi,
>>
>> i was wondering if there is a syntax alike:
>>
>> for i in range(10) if i > 5:
>>     print i
>>     
>
> You can write
>
> for i in filter(lambda i: i > 5, range(10)):
>     print i
>
> but 
>
> for i in range(10):
>     if i > 5:
>         print i
>
> it' better readable, and
>
> for i in range(6,10):
>     print i
>
> it's event better.
>
>   


How about using a generator expression instead of a list?

  for i in (x for x in range(10) if x > 5):
      print i

-John


From koranthala at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 12:25:48 2009
From: koranthala at gmail.com (koranthala)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 09:25:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: can python make web applications?
References: 
Message-ID: <7f0cc793-c4ae-4f7d-87a4-9471f640db89@y4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 23, 8:12?pm, Deep_Feelings  wrote:
> can python make powerfull database web applications that can replace
> desktop database applications? e.g: entrprise accounting
> programs,enterprise human resource management programs ...etc

Very much so.
The web frameworks, Django & TurboGears are quite powerful and can be
used to do what you just now mentioned.
Check out Django - esp if the application is database centric. It has
very good documentation and a free online book - djangobook.


From victorsubervi at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 12:27:48 2009
From: victorsubervi at gmail.com (Victor Subervi)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 11:27:48 -0500
Subject: Trying To Catch Invalid User Input
In-Reply-To: <1251043682.19411.38.camel@centar.nbk>
References: <4dc0cfea0908230804o29a328ecmdb99af2ef790f5ac@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A9161EA.5050602@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<1251043682.19411.38.camel@centar.nbk>
Message-ID: <4dc0cfea0908230927m45420f3dxbae2c42c95540c59@mail.gmail.com>

Really slick! Thanks!
V

On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 11:08 AM, Albert Hopkins wrote:

> On Sun, 2009-08-23 at 16:36 +0100, MRAB wrote:
> > Victor Subervi wrote:
> > > Hi;
> > > I have the following:
> > >
> > > style = raw_input('What style is this? (1 = short, 2 = long): ')
> > > flag = 0
> > > while flag == 0:
> > >   if (style != 1) or (style != 2):
> > >     style = raw_input('There was a mistake. What style is this? (1 =
> > > short, 2 = long): ')
> > >   else:
> > >     flag = 1
> > >
> > > I would think this would catch errors and permit valid values, but it
> > > doesn't. If I enter an erroneous value the first time, and the second
> > > time a good value, it doesn't break the loop. Why?
> > >
> > This is wrong:
> >
> >      (style != 1) or (style != 2)
> >
> > For example, if style is 1 (which should be a valid value):
> >
> >      (style != 1) or (style != 2)
> >   => (1     != 1) or (1     != 2)
> >   => False        or True
> >   => True
> >
> > What you mean is:
> >
> >      (style != 1) and (style != 2)
>
> Or (perhaps) better:
>
> VALID_STYLES = {1: 'short', 2: 'long'}
>
> style = None
> while style not in VALID_STYLES:
>    style = raw_input('What style is this? %s: ' %
>        str(VALID_STYLES).replace(':', ' ='))
>
>    # also, raw_input() returns a string
>    try:
>        style = int(style)
>    except ValueError:
>        pass
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

From nmm1 at cam.ac.uk  Sun Aug 23 12:34:16 2009
From: nmm1 at cam.ac.uk (nmm1 at cam.ac.uk)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 17:34:16 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
	<1032c78d-d4dd-41c0-a877-b85ca000d871@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

In article <1032c78d-d4dd-41c0-a877-b85ca000d871 at g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>,
sturlamolden   wrote:
>On 23 Aug, 12:35, n... at cam.ac.uk wrote:
>
>> I am interested in surveying people who want to interoperate between
>> Fortran and Python to find out what they would like to be able to do
>> more conveniently, especially with regard to types not supported for C
>> interoperability by the current Fortran standard. =A0Any suggestions as t=
>o
>> other ways that I could survey such people (Usenet is no longer as
>> ubiquitous as it used to be) would be welcomed.
>
>I think you will find that 99.9% of Python and Fortran programmers are
>scientists and engineers that also use NumPy and f2py. Go to scipy.org
>and ask your question on the numpy mailing list.
>
>Regards,
>Sturla Molden
>
>
>


Thanks.  I had forgotten they had a mailing list.

Nick.


From dmw at coder.cl  Sun Aug 23 12:35:33 2009
From: dmw at coder.cl (Daniel Molina Wegener)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 12:35:33 -0400
Subject: [ANN] pyxser-1.2r --- Python-Object to XML serialization module
Message-ID: <2571343.k9db9GJWqV@coder.cl>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Hello,

I'm pleased to announce pyxser-1.2r, a Python-Object to XML
serializer and deserializer. This module package it's completely
written in C and licensed under LGPLv3.

The tested Python versions are 2.5.X and 2.7.X.

* home page:
? http://coder.cl/software/pyxser

* hosted at:
? http://sourceforge.net/projects/pyxser/

* pypi entry:
? http://pypi.python.org/pypi?:action=display&name=pyxser&version=1.2r

The current ChangeLog is as follows:

- -----8<----------8<----------8<----------8<-----
1.2r (2009.08.23):

? ? ? ? Daniel Molina Wegener 
? ? ? ? * Added encoded serialization of Unicode strings by using
? ? ? ? the user defined encoding as is passed to the serialization
? ? ? ? functions as enc parameter
? ? ? ? * Refactored some functions to allow more ordered code.
- -----8<----------8<----------8<----------8<-----

As you see, now Unicode strings are serialized as encoded byte string
by using the encoding that the user pass as enc parameter to the
serialization function. This means that Unicode strings are serialized
in a human readable form, regarding a better interoperability with
other platforms.

Best regards...
- --
?.O. | Daniel Molina Wegener ? | FreeBSD & Linux
?..O | dmw [at] coder [dot] cl | Open Standards
?OOO | http://coder.cl/ ? ? ? ?| FOSS Developer
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From foo at bar.invalid  Sun Aug 23 13:06:48 2009
From: foo at bar.invalid (JB)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 20:06:48 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
Message-ID: 

["Followup-To:" header set to comp.lang.fortran.]
On 2009-08-23, nmm1 at cam.ac.uk  wrote:
>
> I am interested in surveying people who want to interoperate between
> Fortran and Python to find out what they would like to be able to do
> more conveniently, especially with regard to types not supported for C
> interoperability by the current Fortran standard.  Any suggestions as to
> other ways that I could survey such people (Usenet is no longer as
> ubiquitous as it used to be) would be welcomed.
>
> My Email address is real, so direct messages will be received.
>
> Specifically, I should like to know the answers to the following
> questions:
>
>     1) Do you want to use character strings of arbitrary length?

As in, a signed C int (that most Fortran implementations use to keep
track of string lengths) may not be sufficient? No, I'm not
particularly interested in that.

>     2) Do you want to use Python classes with list members, where the
> length of the list is not necessarily fixed for all instances of the
> class?  Or, equivalently, Fortran derived types containing allocatable
> or pointer arrays?

Yes.

>     2) Do you want to use Fortran derived types or Python classes that
> contain type-bound procedures (including finalizers)?  Please answer
> "yes" whether or nor you would like to call those type-bound procedures
> from the other language.

In python I use it all the time, haven't used any F2003 OOP features
yet.  

>     4) Do you want to call functions where the called language allocates
> or deallocates arrays/lists/strings for use by the calling language?
> Note that this is specifically Fortran->Python and Python->Fortran.

Yes. 


Generally speaking, f2py today is not that bad, though it's getting
long in the tooth. There is a project called fwrap that aims to create
an improved python/Fortran bridge:

http://conference.scipy.org/static/wiki/smith_fwrap.pdf

This project uses ISO_C_BINDING, and I think that this is the correct
approach rather than trying to keep up with whatever ABI's all those
Fortran compilers use. So from the Fortran side of the fence, I
suppose the path forward would be to improve on the C binding
functionality (this would also of course benefit other language
bindings than just python). Whether TR 29113 is the right path forward
or not I have no strong opinion on. Specifically what's needed is some
way to portably access the array descriptor data, and maybe also how
to access the OOP functionality in a standardized way. The experience
with C++ ABI's suggests that this might not be as straightforward as
it sounds.


-- 
JB


From matthew at woodcraft.me.uk  Sun Aug 23 13:23:06 2009
From: matthew at woodcraft.me.uk (Matthew Woodcraft)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 17:23:06 GMT
Subject: Most "active" coroutine library project?
References: <64183b73-9cb0-4ce1-98d0-f47e13a818e4@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87ab1qfnr9.fsf@golux.woodcraft.me.uk>

Phillip B Oldham  writes:

> I've been taking a look at the multitude of coroutine libraries
> available for Python, but from the looks of the projects they all seem
> to be rather "quiet". I'd like to pick one up to use on a current
> project but can't deduce which is the most popular/has the largest
> community.
>
> Libraries I looked at include: cogen, weightless, eventlet and
> circuits (which isn't exactly coroutine-based but it's event-driven
> model was intriguing).
>
> Firstly, are there any others I've missed?

There's greenlets

http://pypi.python.org/pypi/greenlet

which I think is also fairly described as "quiet".

-M-


From james.harris.1 at googlemail.com  Sun Aug 23 14:11:36 2009
From: james.harris.1 at googlemail.com (James Harris)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 11:11:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: <2h2hwo918umw.1ihpdwjimzge8$.dlg@40tude.net>
	
Message-ID: <583bb6bd-9723-4ff7-bc0e-d58782cf9296@k30g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>

On 21 Aug, 00:59, James Harris  wrote:

...

> > Is there some magic to make the 2.x CPython interpreter to ignore the
> > annoying octal notation?
> > I'd really like 012 to be "12" and not "10".
>
> This is (IMHO) a sad hangover from C (which took it from B ...

This seemed worth writing up so I've taken the snipped comments and
posted them at

  http://sundry.wikispaces.com/octal-zero-prefix

The idea is that the page can be pointed to any time the issue comes
up again.

I've also fleshed the comments out a bit.

James


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Aug 23 14:12:00 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 23 Aug 2009 11:12:00 -0700
Subject: Polling a net address
References: <99ddf4e1-d327-4fb1-aee4-aa881de3b3af@d23g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

In article <99ddf4e1-d327-4fb1-aee4-aa881de3b3af at d23g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>,
Iain   wrote:
>
>I'm writing a system tray application for windows, and the app needs
>to poll a remote site at a pre-defined interval, and then process any
>data returned.
>
>The GUI needs to remain responsive as this goes on, so the polling
>needs to be done in the background. I've been looking into Twisted as
>a way of achieving this, but can't seem to get anything to loop
>successfully.
>
>Does anyone have any pointers that they might be able to give me?

You might prefer trying out threads instead; there's a simple Tkinter
example in
http://www.pythoncraft.com/OSCON2001/index.html
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I support family values -- Addams family values" --www.nancybuttons.com


From stefaan.himpe at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 14:32:04 2009
From: stefaan.himpe at gmail.com (Stefaan Himpe)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 20:32:04 +0200
Subject: can python make web applications?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Deep_Feelings wrote:
> can python make powerfull database web applications that can replace
> desktop database applications? e.g: entrprise accounting
> programs,enterprise human resource management programs ...etc

In addition to the recommendations by other people, I'd like to
recommend the very easy to learn and use web2py. (www.web2py.com).


From nmm1 at cam.ac.uk  Sun Aug 23 14:42:51 2009
From: nmm1 at cam.ac.uk (nmm1 at cam.ac.uk)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 19:42:51 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

In article , JB   wrote:
>["Followup-To:" header set to comp.lang.fortran.]

Sorry - set back again, because you don't provide an Email address,
and there's a significant issue.  Thanks for the response.

>>     1) Do you want to use character strings of arbitrary length?
>
>As in, a signed C int (that most Fortran implementations use to keep
>track of string lengths) may not be sufficient? No, I'm not
>particularly interested in that.

No, I mean things like 'Kilroy was here'.  Currently, Fortran's C
interoperability supports only strings of length 1, and you have
to kludge them up as arrays.  That doesn't work very well, especially
for things like function results.

>Generally speaking, f2py today is not that bad, though it's getting
>long in the tooth. There is a project called fwrap that aims to create
>an improved python/Fortran bridge:

Thanks.  I will look at that.

>This project uses ISO_C_BINDING, and I think that this is the correct
>approach rather than trying to keep up with whatever ABI's all those
>Fortran compilers use. So from the Fortran side of the fence, I
>suppose the path forward would be to improve on the C binding
>functionality (this would also of course benefit other language
>bindings than just python). Whether TR 29113 is the right path forward
>or not I have no strong opinion on. Specifically what's needed is some
>way to portably access the array descriptor data, and maybe also how
>to access the OOP functionality in a standardized way. The experience
>with C++ ABI's suggests that this might not be as straightforward as
>it sounds.

That is precisely what I am investigating.  TR 29113 falls a LONG
way before it gets to any of the OOP data - indeed, you can't even
pass OOP derived types as pure data (without even the functionality)
in its model.  Nor most of what else Python would expect.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.


From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 14:48:50 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 11:48:50 -0700
Subject: Questions on XML
In-Reply-To: <97c638a50908221327ge57818ahc1bb4c9ad3eb186b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <51b22a8c-54de-484e-9b3c-9baeb4498f69@q40g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	
	<97c638a50908221327ge57818ahc1bb4c9ad3eb186b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200908231148.51151.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com>

My problem is with IDLE on Windows. When I try to type Bangla directly into 
the IDLE window I only get '?' characters, and repr() fails with a 
UnicodeDecodeError. I expect, though, that that's because of my specific 
installation / Windows issues, as it works fine on Fedora 10...

> I do not get any problem in processing Hindi or Bangla or any Indian
> language in Python it is perfectly fine.
I have no problems either -- my issues are with IDLE, and only on Windows.

----
Rami Chowdhury
"Strangers are just friends who haven't had enough gin." -- Howdle's Saying
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)

On Saturday 22 August 2009 13:27:02 SUBHABRATA BANERJEE wrote:
> Should I help you? If you answered my questions I am differing from your
> view I do not get any problem in processing Hindi or Bangla or any Indian
> language in Python it is perfectly fine.
> Best Regards,
> Subhabrata.
>
> On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 9:48 AM, Rami Chowdhury 
wrote:
> > I am using primarily UTF-8 based strings, like Hindi or Bengali. Can I
> >
> >> use Python to help me in this regard?
> >
> > I can say from experience that Python on Windows (at least, Python 2.5 on
> > 32-bit Vista) works perfectly well with UTF-8 files containing Bangla. I
> > have had trouble with working with the data in IDLE, however, which seems
> > to prefer ASCII by default.
> >
> > -------------
> > Rami Chowdhury
> > "Never assume malice when stupidity will suffice." -- Hanlon's Razor
> > 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Aug 21, 2009, at 19:15 , joy99 wrote:
> >
> >   Dear Group,
> >
> >> I like to convert some simple strings of natural language to XML. May
> >> I use Python to do this? If any one can help me, on this.
> >>
> >> I am using primarily UTF-8 based strings, like Hindi or Bengali. Can I
> >> use Python to help me in this regard?
> >>
> >> How can I learn good XML aspects of Python. If any one can kindly name
> >> me a book or URL.
> >>
> >> I am using Python2.6 on Windows XP with IDLE as GUI.
> >>
> >> Best Regards,
> >> Subhabrata.
> >> --
> >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Sun Aug 23 14:52:16 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 20:52:16 +0200
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4a918fe0$0$30226$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net>

Simon Brunning wrote:
> 2009/8/11 Robert Dailey:
>> On Aug 11, 3:40 pm, Bearophile wrote:
>>> There are gals too here.
>> It's a figure of speech. And besides, why would I want programming
>> advice from a woman? lol. Thanks for the help.
> 
> Give the attitudes still prevalent in our industry (cf
>  and many more), I'm sorry to say that I
> don't think this is funny.

Me neither.

I used to reply with comments like "you just missed more than half of the
world's population" to people who started their postings with "hi guys!",
and I stopped doing that as a) it became too tiring, especially on a
potentially-for-newbees group like c.l.py, and b) to many people it
actually *is* a figure of speech.

But reading statements like the above really makes me feel that it's best
to comment even on simple things like "hi guys!".

Stefan


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Sun Aug 23 15:11:57 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:11:57 +0200
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>	<90cd2c33-5f2d-4a29-b267-67f233ae2946@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>	<4A8ADF6D.2030405@sequans.com>		
	
Message-ID: <4a91947d$0$30226$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> Grant Edwards wrote:
>> On 2009-08-18, Simon Forman  wrote:
>>> Sexism, racism, homophobia, religious intolerance, etc., all
>>> stem from a fundamental forgetfulness of our Unity in God (as
>>> I would put it) and this is perhaps the single greatest cause
>>> of human misery.
>>
>> You mean the single greatest cause of human misery isn't
>> Microsoft Windows?
>>   
> No, emacs is responsible ! Hail to Vi !

Heck, where's Godwin's law when you need it?

Stefan


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Sun Aug 23 15:25:51 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:25:51 +0200
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
In-Reply-To: <62dbf088-4510-40d0-af3e-3feeb291d6e4@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<1fa1663b-a1cb-42d4-890b-0617b73e8816@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<9b8c48a3-b050-4a13-83f5-bc4185c62bdc@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<86bb893a-344a-4c7b-9fc6-67d9f42c7607@q14g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	<62dbf088-4510-40d0-af3e-3feeb291d6e4@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a9197c0$0$30226$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net>

Mensanator wrote:
> asking how many Jews you can fit into a Volswagen.

None, because it's already full.

(or "voll" as those who design Volkswagens would put it...)

Stefan


From voodoorai2000 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 15:47:21 2009
From: voodoorai2000 at gmail.com (Raimond Garcia)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:47:21 +0200
Subject: Is python faster than java?
Message-ID: 

I'm building a large application, kind of fancy python but I'm concerned
about speed.
Cheers

Peter
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From pengyu.ut at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 15:54:15 2009
From: pengyu.ut at gmail.com (Peng Yu)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 12:54:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Combining python and perl
References: <743337bf-487f-434d-b15c-4b675b6487f4@d21g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 23, 8:00?am, Albert Hopkins  wrote:
> On Sun, 2009-08-23 at 05:37 -0700, Peng Yu wrote:
> > Hi,
>
> > According tohttp://www.python.org/doc/essays/comparisons.html, it
> > says
>
> > "Python and Perl come from a similar background (Unix scripting, which
> > both have long outgrown), and sport many similar features, but have a
> > different philosophy. Perl emphasizes support for common application-
> > oriented tasks, e.g. by having built-in regular expressions, file
> > scanning and report generating features. Python emphasizes support for
> > common programming methodologies such as data structure design and
> > object-oriented programming, and encourages programmers to write
> > readable (and thus maintainable) code by providing an elegant but not
> > overly cryptic notation. As a consequence, Python comes close to Perl
> > but rarely beats it in its original application domain; however Python
> > has an applicability well beyond Perl's niche."
>
> > My question is that how to combine both python and perl to take
> > advantages of both their strong aspects. Of course, I want to
> > primarily use python---that is why I send this message to this group.
>
> I'm not sure why you'd want to "combine" them. ?You can pretty much do
> the same things with both language, it's just that one may emphasize one
> thing or make it easier for the user than the other. ?For example,
> regular expressions in Perl. ?It's built into the language, but that
> doesn't mean Python doesn't have regular expressions, just that Python
> is less "centered" around them. ?If you want to use regular expressions
> with Python just "import re".

I understand that the sames things can be done with both language.

But I do think that certain applications can be done faster (in term
of the coding & debugging time, I don't care runtime here) with one
language than with another. Therefore, for any give problem, it is
meaningful to decide, based on the time to write and debug the code,
which part should be programmed with perl and which part should be
programed with python. However, when I split the code in perl and
python, the problem of the integration is introduced, which incur
additional coding and maintenance cost.

I am sure that somebody must has already encounter the similar
situation like I described above. I am wondering whether there are any
advices on how to take advantages of both languages to speed up the
code development time and reduce maintenance cost.

Regards,
Peng


From emile at fenx.com  Sun Aug 23 15:59:37 2009
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 12:59:37 -0700
Subject: Is python faster than java?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 8/23/2009 12:47 PM Raimond Garcia said...
> I'm building a large application, 

What kind of application?

> kind of fancy python but I'm concerned 
> about speed.

Speed of what? Development? User interaction? Responsiveness to queries? 
Mostly, you should worry about speed later.  Writing it in python is 
probably faster than java.  Then optimize the slow bits once you've 
identified where its needed.

Emile



From brannerchinese at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 16:13:16 2009
From: brannerchinese at gmail.com (David Prager Branner)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 13:13:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: web frameworks that support Python 3
Message-ID: 

I use Chinese and therefore Unicode very heavily, and so Python 3 is
an unavoidable choice for me. But I'm frustrated by the fact that
Django, Pylons, and TurboGears do not support Python 3 yet and
(according to their development websites) will not for a very long
time to come.

So I am asking for recommendations for web frameworks that support
Python 3. I am running Ubuntu 9.04 (Jaunty).

Thanks!


From max at alcyone.com  Sun Aug 23 16:14:41 2009
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 13:14:41 -0700
Subject: IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename: in windows
	xp while making tarfile
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

Ryniek90 wrote:
> I've got my backup script which opens tarfile for add chosen file to it. 
> But while setting it up, i've got Traceback:
> here's the url: -->http://paste.ubuntu.com/258081/<--
> 
> I have searched among google's result but didn't found anything useful. 
> Only found info that it may be the backslashes fault in path, but i have 
> written proper the path.
> 
> Here's link to my script paste: http://paste.ubuntu.com/258087/
> 
> Is its the '|\U' literal fault in path '|C:\\Users\\Ryniek's 
> WinSe7en\\MyNewGGBackup(2009-08-23 14:59:02).tar.bz2|' ?
> 
> Sorry if i'm annoying but i'm still learning.

It's probably a misleading error from the OS; I would guess the problem 
is that the filename contains colons, which I believe is a no-no on Windows.

You want to make sure to always escape your backslashes (or use raw 
strings), too, or that's going to bite you sometime later (but it's not 
your main problem here).

-- 
Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
  San Jose, CA, USA && 37 18 N 121 57 W && AIM/Y!M/Skype erikmaxfrancis
   Every human being is a problem in search of a solution.
    -- Ashley Montague


From marduk at letterboxes.org  Sun Aug 23 16:32:09 2009
From: marduk at letterboxes.org (Albert Hopkins)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 16:32:09 -0400
Subject: web frameworks that support Python 3
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <1251059529.12426.23.camel@centar.nbk>

On Sun, 2009-08-23 at 13:13 -0700, David Prager Branner wrote:
> I use Chinese and therefore Unicode very heavily, and so Python 3 is
> an unavoidable choice for me. But I'm frustrated by the fact that
> Django, Pylons, and TurboGears do not support Python 3 yet and
> (according to their development websites) will not for a very long
> time to come.
> 
> So I am asking for recommendations for web frameworks that support
> Python 3. I am running Ubuntu 9.04 (Jaunty).

Python 2.x has Unicode.  In fact Django and the like use unicode
heavily.

What's different about Python 3 is that there is only unicode strings,
whereas Python 2 has a string type and a unicode type.

So it's not true that Python 3 is an unavoidable choice for using
unicode.




From basti.wiesner at gmx.net  Sun Aug 23 16:34:50 2009
From: basti.wiesner at gmx.net (Sebastian Wiesner)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 22:34:50 +0200
Subject: web frameworks that support Python 3
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <200908232234.58373.basti.wiesner@gmx.net>

At Sunday 23 August 2009 22:13:16 you wrote:
> I use Chinese and therefore Unicode very heavily, and so Python 3 is
> an unavoidable choice for me.
Python 2.x supports Unicode just as well as Python 3.  Every common web 
framework works perfectly with unicode.

In any case, there is bottle [1], which provides a *very minimal* framework 
for WSGI web development.  Don't expect too much, it is really small, and 
doesn't do much more than routing and minimal templating.

However, it is the only Python-3-compatible web framework I know of.

[1] http://bottle.paws.de/page/start

-- 
Freedom is always the freedom of dissenters.
                                      (Rosa Luxemburg)
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From marduk at letterboxes.org  Sun Aug 23 16:34:55 2009
From: marduk at letterboxes.org (Albert Hopkins)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 16:34:55 -0400
Subject: Combining python and perl
In-Reply-To: 
References: <743337bf-487f-434d-b15c-4b675b6487f4@d21g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <1251059695.12426.27.camel@centar.nbk>

On Sun, 2009-08-23 at 12:54 -0700, Peng Yu wrote:

> I understand that the sames things can be done with both language.
> 
> But I do think that certain applications can be done faster (in term
> of the coding & debugging time, I don't care runtime here) with one
> language than with another. 

Yes, and usually that application is written in that language *or* the
other.

> Therefore, for any give problem, it is
> meaningful to decide, based on the time to write and debug the code,
> which part should be programmed with perl and which part should be
> programed with python. However, when I split the code in perl and
> python, the problem of the integration is introduced, which incur
> additional coding and maintenance cost.
> 

Couldn't agree more.

> I am sure that somebody must has already encounter the similar
> situation like I described above. I am wondering whether there are any
> advices on how to take advantages of both languages to speed up the
> code development time and reduce maintenance cost.

Perhaps you need to give more specific criteria.  I've worked on a few
projects where different languages are used, but in different "domains".
For example, the client may be written in Python but the server written
in Java or PHP.  Or different subsystems written in different languages.
For example, the workflow engine may be written in Python but the batch
processor written in C.  However in these cases, for the most part, the
systems themselves are monolingual though they communicate with each
other using well-defined, common interfaces (e.g. TCP/IP, XMLRPC, HL7,
etc.).

If, however, you are thinking of writing a sub-system in multiple
languages (ala permodule, for example), you are in for a world of hurt.
Not only will the code be difficult to maintain yourself, it will be
difficult for others to maintain/understand it.  Most people don't say
things like "Well I'm going to write all the 'object' stuff in Python
but all the string processing in Perl.  What usually motivates people to
write systems in multiple languages are:

      * Availability of third-party libraries in a certain language.
      * Combining separate systems written in different languages.
      * Developer's capabilities in one language or the other
      * External dependencies (e.g. need to to have a plugin system for
        people to program in Python).
      * Performance.
      * Other types of "glue" (e.g. installation scripts need to be
        written in Perl, test system is Java based so CI scripts need to
        be in Java).

permodule is nice for "simple" or "one-off" kind of stuff (or for any of
the above reasons).  But any reasonably-sized application using
something like that throughout is going to be a maintenance nightmare.




From sdementen at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 16:36:10 2009
From: sdementen at gmail.com (seb)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 13:36:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: conditional for-statement
References:  
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 23, 6:18?pm, John Posner  wrote:
> >> Hi,
>
> >> i was wondering if there is a syntax alike:
>
> >> for i in range(10) if i > 5:
> >> ? ? print i
>
> > You can write
>
> > for i in filter(lambda i: i > 5, range(10)):
> > ? ? print i
>
> > but
>
> > for i in range(10):
> > ? ? if i > 5:
> > ? ? ? ? print i
>
> > it' better readable, and
>
> > for i in range(6,10):
> > ? ? print i
>
> > it's event better.
>
> How about using a generator expression instead of a list?
>
> ? for i in (x for x in range(10) if x > 5):
> ? ? ? print i
>
> -John

Indeed, but we could have the same syntax than for generators but
directly in the for statement as in
for variable in generator if condition:
    body

Is there a special reason for not doing so ? A rejected PEP ?


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Sun Aug 23 16:43:20 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 22:43:20 +0200
Subject: web frameworks that support Python 3
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4a91a9e8$0$30226$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net>

David Prager Branner wrote:
> I use Chinese and therefore Unicode very heavily, and so Python 3 is
> an unavoidable choice for me.

As others noted before, this statement is not true by itself.


> But I'm frustrated by the fact that
> Django, Pylons, and TurboGears do not support Python 3 yet and
> (according to their development websites) will not for a very long
> time to come.

http://wiki.python.org/moin/PortingDjangoTo3k

Stefan


From pyklass at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 16:45:17 2009
From: pyklass at gmail.com (Goke Aruna)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:45:17 +0100
Subject: can python make web applications?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <30ef32480908231345l1d3f96eqb59825fdd2d2e1cd@mail.gmail.com>

A lot check this fantastic open source application,
http://www.openerp.com, all done is python.

On 8/23/09, Stefaan Himpe  wrote:
> Deep_Feelings wrote:
>> can python make powerfull database web applications that can replace
>> desktop database applications? e.g: entrprise accounting
>> programs,enterprise human resource management programs ...etc
>
> In addition to the recommendations by other people, I'd like to
> recommend the very easy to learn and use web2py. (www.web2py.com).
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

-- 
Sent from my mobile device


From voodoorai2000 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 16:49:32 2009
From: voodoorai2000 at gmail.com (Raimond Garcia)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 22:49:32 +0200
Subject: Is python faster than java?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

Makes sense.
+1

Cheers

Peter

On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 9:59 PM, Emile van Sebille  wrote:

> On 8/23/2009 12:47 PM Raimond Garcia said...
>
>> I'm building a large application,
>>
>
> What kind of application?


>
>  kind of fancy python but I'm concerned about speed.
>>
>
> Speed of what? Development? User interaction? Responsiveness to queries?
> Mostly, you should worry about speed later.  Writing it in python is
> probably faster than java.  Then optimize the slow bits once you've
> identified where its needed.
>
> Emile
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From james.harris.1 at googlemail.com  Sun Aug 23 16:55:19 2009
From: james.harris.1 at googlemail.com (James Harris)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 13:55:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
References:  
	
	 
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com> 
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	<4a90b50e.154654859@text.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <9411f79a-934f-494c-93bc-dc020646f281@z24g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On 23 Aug, 04:38, c... at tiac.net (Richard Harter) wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:54:41 -0700 (PDT), James Harris
>
>
>
>
>
>  wrote:
> >On 22 Aug, 10:27, David <71da... at libero.it> wrote:
>
> >... (snipped a discussion on languages and other systems interpreting
> >numbers with a leading zero as octal)
>
> >> > Either hexadecimal should have been 0h or octal should
> >> > have been 0t :=3D)
>
> >> I have seen the use of Q/q instead in order to make it clearer. I still
> >> prefer Smalltalk's 16rFF and 8r377.
>
> >> Two interesting options. In a project I have on I have also considered
> >> using 0q as indicating octal. I maybe saw it used once somewhere else
> >> but I have no idea where. 0t was a second choice and 0c third choice
> >> (the other letters of oct). 0o should NOT be used for obvious reasons.
>
> >> So you are saying that Smalltalk has r where
> >> r is presumably for radix? That's maybe best of all. It preserves the
> >> syntactic requirement of starting a number with a digit and seems to
> >> have greatest flexibility. Not sure how good it looks but it's
> >> certainly not bad.
>
> I opine that a letter is better; special characters are a
> valuable piece of real estate.

Very very true.

> ?However for floating point you
> need at least three letters because a floating point number has
> three parts: the fixed point point, the exponent base, and the
> exponent. ?Now we can represent the radices of the individual
> parts with the 'r'scheme, e.g., 2r101001, but we need separate
> letters to designate the exponent base and the exponent. ?B and E
> are the obvious choices, though we want to be careful about a
> confusion with 'b' in hex. ?For example, using 'R',
>
> 3R20.1B2E16Rac

Ooh err!


> is 20.1 in trinary (6 1/3) times 2**172 (hex ac).
>
> I grant that this example looks a bit gobbledegookish,

You think? :-)

> but normal
> usage would be much simpler. ?The notation doesn't handle
> balanced trinary; however I opine that balanced trinary requires
> special notation.

When the programmer needs to construct such values how about allowing
him or her to specify something like

  (20.1 in base 3) times 2 to the power of 0xac

Leaving out how to specify (20.1 in base 3) for now this could be

  (20.1 in base 3) * 2 ** 0xac

The compiler could convert this to a constant.

James


From sdementen at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 16:58:01 2009
From: sdementen at gmail.com (seb)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 13:58:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: conditional for-statement
References:  
	
	
Message-ID: <9571ca2a-8559-403a-8ba5-aa6626f13ee6@32g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 23, 10:36?pm, seb  wrote:
> On Aug 23, 6:18?pm, John Posner  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > >> Hi,
>
> > >> i was wondering if there is a syntax alike:
>
> > >> for i in range(10) if i > 5:
> > >> ? ? print i
>
> > > You can write
>
> > > for i in filter(lambda i: i > 5, range(10)):
> > > ? ? print i
>
> > > but
>
> > > for i in range(10):
> > > ? ? if i > 5:
> > > ? ? ? ? print i
>
> > > it' better readable, and
>
> > > for i in range(6,10):
> > > ? ? print i
>
> > > it's event better.
>
> > How about using a generator expression instead of a list?
>
> > ? for i in (x for x in range(10) if x > 5):
> > ? ? ? print i
>
> > -John
>
> Indeed, but we could have the same syntax than for generators but
> directly in the for statement as in
> for variable in generator if condition:
> ? ? body
>
> Is there a special reason for not doing so ? A rejected PEP ?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I just found the same thread on the python ideas group at
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-ideas/2009-April/004278.html

sorry for reposting


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sun Aug 23 17:02:16 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 14:02:16 -0700
Subject: conditional for-statement
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908231402p1ff54041jba173c3e23ffab12@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 1:36 PM, seb wrote:
> On Aug 23, 6:18?pm, John Posner  wrote:
>> >> Hi,
>>
>> >> i was wondering if there is a syntax alike:
>>
>> >> for i in range(10) if i > 5:
>> >> ? ? print i
>>
>> > You can write
>>
>> > for i in filter(lambda i: i > 5, range(10)):
>> > ? ? print i
>>
>> > but
>>
>> > for i in range(10):
>> > ? ? if i > 5:
>> > ? ? ? ? print i
>>
>> > it' better readable, and
>>
>> > for i in range(6,10):
>> > ? ? print i
>>
>> > it's event better.
>>
>> How about using a generator expression instead of a list?
>>
>> ? for i in (x for x in range(10) if x > 5):
>> ? ? ? print i
>>
>> -John
>
> Indeed, but we could have the same syntax than for generators but
> directly in the for statement as in
> for variable in generator if condition:
> ? ?body
>
> Is there a special reason for not doing so ? A rejected PEP ?

It's not been added since it's completely unnecessary (see the several
alternatives already presented by others).
There have been a few other mailinglist threads on adding essentially
the same syntax. None have proved fruitful.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From james.harris.1 at googlemail.com  Sun Aug 23 17:42:16 2009
From: james.harris.1 at googlemail.com (James Harris)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 14:42:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
References:  
	
	 
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com> 
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
Message-ID: 

On 23 Aug, 00:16, Mel  wrote:
> James Harris wrote:
> > I have no idea why Ada which uses the # also apparently uses it to end
> > a number
>
> > ? 2#1011#, 8#7621#, 16#c26b#
>
> Interesting. ?They do it because of this example from
> :

Thanks for providing an explanation.

>
> 2#1#E8 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?-- an integer literal of value 256
>
> where the E prefixes a power-of-2 exponent, and can't be taken as a digit of
> the radix. ?That is to say
>
> 16#1#E2
>
> would also equal 256, since it's 1*16**2 .

Here's another suggested number literal format. First, keep the
familar 0x and 0b of C and others and to add 0t for octal. (T is the
third letter of octal as X is the third letter of hex.) The numbers
above would be

  0b1011, 0t7621, 0xc26b

Second, allow an arbitrary number base by putting base and number in
quotes after a zero as in

  0"2:1011", 0"8:7621", 0"16:c26b"

This would work for arbitrary bases and allows an exponent to be
tagged on the end. It only depends on zero followed by a quote mark
not being used elsewhere. Finally, although it uses a colon it doesn't
take it away from being used elsewhere in the language.

Another option:

  0.(2:1011), 0.(8:7621), 0.(16:c26b)

where the three characters "0.(" begin the sequence.

Comments? Improvements?

James


From james.harris.1 at googlemail.com  Sun Aug 23 17:45:39 2009
From: james.harris.1 at googlemail.com (James Harris)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 14:45:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
References:  
	
	 
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com> 
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	<4a90b50e.154654859@text.giganews.com>
	<9411f79a-934f-494c-93bc-dc020646f281@z24g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On 23 Aug, 21:55, James Harris  wrote:

...

> > ?However for floating point you
> > need at least three letters because a floating point number has
> > three parts: the fixed point point, the exponent base, and the
> > exponent. ?Now we can represent the radices of the individual
> > parts with the 'r'scheme, e.g., 2r101001, but we need separate
> > letters to designate the exponent base and the exponent. ?B and E
> > are the obvious choices, though we want to be careful about a
> > confusion with 'b' in hex. ?For example, using 'R',
>
> > 3R20.1B2E16Rac
>
> Ooh err!
>
> > is 20.1 in trinary (6 1/3) times 2**172 (hex ac).
>
> > I grant that this example looks a bit gobbledegookish,
>
> You think? :-)
>
> > but normal
> > usage would be much simpler. ?The notation doesn't handle
> > balanced trinary; however I opine that balanced trinary requires
> > special notation.
>
> When the programmer needs to construct such values how about allowing
> him or her to specify something like
>
> ? (20.1 in base 3) times 2 to the power of 0xac
>
> Leaving out how to specify (20.1 in base 3) for now this could be
>
> ? (20.1 in base 3) * 2 ** 0xac

Using the suggestion from another post would convert this to

  0.(3:20.1) * 2 ** 0xac

>
> The compiler could convert this to a constant.



From phily05 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 17:51:32 2009
From: phily05 at gmail.com (Phil)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 14:51:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: __import__(x) VS __import__(x, {}, {}, [''])
Message-ID: 

I am trying to understand the difference between __import__(x) and
__import__(x, {}, {}, ['']).

The documentations wording was a bit weird for me to understand:
"The standard implementation does not use its locals argument at all,
and uses its globals only to determine the package context of the
import statement."

Does that mean it passes in the globals by default, or does the above
statement stand true only if globals() is passed in?


From mwilson at the-wire.com  Sun Aug 23 18:05:44 2009
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 18:05:44 -0400
Subject: conditional for-statement
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

seb wrote:

> On Aug 23, 6:18 pm, John Posner  wrote:
[ ... ]
>> How about using a generator expression instead of a list?
>>
>> for i in (x for x in range(10) if x > 5):
>> print i
>>
>> -John
> 
> Indeed, but we could have the same syntax than for generators but
> directly in the for statement as in
> for variable in generator if condition:
>     body
> 
> Is there a special reason for not doing so ? A rejected PEP ?

Well, the Zen of Python does say

There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it.

Beyond that, I refer you to Gerald M. Weinberg's _The Psychology of Computer 
Programming_, specifically chapters 11 and 12, about Programming Languages, 
and their design.

The proposal creates an case where one particular pair of syntactic 
constructs can be mooshed together.  OK for them, but everything else 
becomes an exception; what about

while a==c if b != d:

why not

if b != d while a==c:

or

for a in range(7) if os.name == 'posix':


It winds up burdening the programmers with remembering which constructs are 
and which are not mooshable.  Weinberg gave an example: FORTRAN had some 
stringent rules for what expressions were and were not allowed as array 
subscripts.  The result was that many programmers couldn't remember all the 
rules, and often avoided using legal forms, having forgotten they were 
legal.

Maybe the line was already crossed when list comprehensions came into being, 
still, the damage is localized in a particular context: building a list.  It 
isn't out creating wild options in the program control flow at large.

	Mel.




From voodoorai2000 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 18:07:31 2009
From: voodoorai2000 at gmail.com (Raimond Garcia)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 00:07:31 +0200
Subject: What is the recommended library for xml parsing?
Message-ID: 

Is there a good build in library or should I use a third party one?
Cheers,

Peter
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sun Aug 23 18:15:55 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 23:15:55 +0100
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
		
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>		
	
Message-ID: <4A91BF9B.9080100@mrabarnett.plus.com>

James Harris wrote:
> On 23 Aug, 00:16, Mel  wrote:
>> James Harris wrote:
>>> I have no idea why Ada which uses the # also apparently uses it to end
>>> a number
>>>   2#1011#, 8#7621#, 16#c26b#
>> Interesting.  They do it because of this example from
>> :
> 
> Thanks for providing an explanation.
> 
>> 2#1#E8                    -- an integer literal of value 256
>>
>> where the E prefixes a power-of-2 exponent, and can't be taken as a digit of
>> the radix.  That is to say
>>
>> 16#1#E2
>>
>> would also equal 256, since it's 1*16**2 .
> 
> Here's another suggested number literal format. First, keep the
> familar 0x and 0b of C and others and to add 0t for octal. (T is the
> third letter of octal as X is the third letter of hex.) The numbers
> above would be
> 
>   0b1011, 0t7621, 0xc26b
> 
> Second, allow an arbitrary number base by putting base and number in
> quotes after a zero as in
> 
>   0"2:1011", 0"8:7621", 0"16:c26b"
> 
Why not just put the base first, followed by the value in quotes:

     2"1011", 8"7621", 16"c26b"

> This would work for arbitrary bases and allows an exponent to be
> tagged on the end. It only depends on zero followed by a quote mark
> not being used elsewhere. Finally, although it uses a colon it doesn't
> take it away from being used elsewhere in the language.
> 
> Another option:
> 
>   0.(2:1011), 0.(8:7621), 0.(16:c26b)
> 
> where the three characters "0.(" begin the sequence.
> 
> Comments? Improvements?
> 


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Aug 23 18:44:01 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 23 Aug 2009 15:44:01 -0700
Subject: logging SMTPhandler Error
References: 
	<60de8d40-61f4-4ffd-bcef-749bf06675d0@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
Dennis Lee Bieber   wrote:
>On 23 Aug 2009 06:14:00 -0700, aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) declaimed the
>following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>>
>> Slightly expanded: most mail servers accept connections from any other
>> mail server for addresses that are hosted by them.  The MX address for a
>> domain tells you what mail server hosts that address.  By connecting
>> directly to the MX, your script is essentially acting as a mail server
>> itself.
>
>	But is not possible if one's ISP blocks pass-through SMTP
>connections.

Correct, but the OP said that zir ISP did not have a mailserver; AFAIK
all ISPs that block SMTP have their own mailserver that you can point at
instead.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I support family values -- Addams family values" --www.nancybuttons.com


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Sun Aug 23 18:50:29 2009
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 15:50:29 -0700
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

James Harris wrote:...
> Another option:
> 
>   0.(2:1011), 0.(8:7621), 0.(16:c26b)
> 
> where the three characters "0.(" begin the sequence.
> 
> Comments? Improvements?

I did a little interpreter where non-base 10 numbers
(up to base 36) were:

     .7.100   == 64  (octal)
     .9.100   == 100 (decimal)
     .F.100   == 256 (hexadecimal)
     .1.100   == 4   (binary)
     .3.100   == 9   (trinary)
     .Z.100   == 46656 (base 36)
Advantages:
Tokenizer can recognize chunks easily.
Not visually too confusing,
No issue of what base the base indicator is expressed in.

--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sun Aug 23 18:59:35 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 15:59:35 -0700
Subject: What is the recommended library for xml parsing?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908231559vf6c42dcn321296edd7d033b7@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 3:07 PM, Raimond Garcia wrote:
> Is there a good build in library or should I use a third party one?

xml.etree.ElementTree:
http://docs.python.org/library/xml.etree.elementtree.html

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From bartc at freeuk.com  Sun Aug 23 19:04:37 2009
From: bartc at freeuk.com (bartc)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 23:04:37 GMT
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal
	notation
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: <9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com>


"Scott David Daniels"  wrote in message 
news:kN2dnSZR5b0BWAzXnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d at pdx.net...
> James Harris wrote:...
>> Another option:
>>
>>   0.(2:1011), 0.(8:7621), 0.(16:c26b)
>>
>> where the three characters "0.(" begin the sequence.
>>
>> Comments? Improvements?
>
> I did a little interpreter where non-base 10 numbers
> (up to base 36) were:
>
>     .7.100   == 64  (octal)
>     .9.100   == 100 (decimal)
>     .F.100   == 256 (hexadecimal)
>     .1.100   == 4   (binary)
>     .3.100   == 9   (trinary)
>     .Z.100   == 46656 (base 36)
> Advantages:
> Tokenizer can recognize chunks easily.
> Not visually too confusing,
> No issue of what base the base indicator is expressed in.

It can be assumed however that .9. isn't in binary?

That's a neat idea. But an even simpler scheme might be:

.octal.100
.decimal.100
.hex.100
.binary.100
.trinary.100

until it gets to this anyway:

.thiryseximal.100

-- 
Bartc 



From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Sun Aug 23 19:04:55 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 23:04:55 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename: in
	=?utf-8?b?d2luZG93cwl4cA==?= while making tarfile
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

Erik Max Francis  alcyone.com> writes:

> 
> Ryniek90 wrote:

> > Is its the '|\U' literal fault in path '|C:\\Users\\Ryniek's 
> > WinSe7en\\MyNewGGBackup(2009-08-23 14:59:02).tar.bz2|' ?

What is "the '|\U' literal fault" ???

> 
> It's probably a misleading error from the OS; I would guess the problem 
> is that the filename contains colons, which I believe is a no-no on Windows.

The colons are the problem. The error message is not from the OS; it is
concocted by Python (see fileobject.c) as what appears to be the best possible
text given  vague error reporting by Windows. I don't understand "probably a
misleading error [message]" -- invalid mode (actual value) or filename ->
invalid something-obviously-not-invalid or filename -> invalid filename



From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Sun Aug 23 19:17:19 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 16:17:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
	 
	
Message-ID: 

On 23 Aug, 20:42, n... at cam.ac.uk wrote:

> That is precisely what I am investigating. ?TR 29113 falls a LONG
> way before it gets to any of the OOP data - indeed, you can't even
> pass OOP derived types as pure data (without even the functionality)
> in its model. ?Nor most of what else Python would expect.

I am note sure what you mean. This has the same ABI:

typedef struct {
    int m, n;
    float r;
} myctype;


use iso_c_binding
type, bind(c) :: myftype
    integer(c_int) :: m, n
    real(c_float) :: s
end type

You thus can pass derived types between C and Fortran.











From mattaman at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 19:27:21 2009
From: mattaman at gmail.com (mm)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 16:27:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Newbie: list comprehension troubles..
Message-ID: 

Hi, I'm trying to replace this...

        # this works but there must be a more pythonic way, right?
        tlist = []
        for obj in self.objs:
            t = obj.intersect(ray)
            if (t != None):
                tlist.append((obj,t))

with a list comprehension- can it be done?

What I need to do is iterate over a list of graphics primitives and
call their intersect method. If the returned t value is not None then
I want to store the obj refernence and its t value in a list of tuples
for further processing. I've tried stuff like ...

        tlist = [(obj,t) for obj,t in (self.objs, obj.intersect(ray))
if (t != None)]
        tlist = [(obj,t) for obj in self.objs for t in obj.intersect
(ray) ]
        print ">>> ",len(tlist), tlist

but they don't work. Any help greatly appreciated. matt


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sun Aug 23 19:36:02 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 16:36:02 -0700
Subject: Newbie: list comprehension troubles..
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908231636l77357d21icca87edf2248f15d@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 4:27 PM, mm wrote:
> Hi, I'm trying to replace this...
>
> ? ? ? ?# this works but there must be a more pythonic way, right?
> ? ? ? ?tlist = []
> ? ? ? ?for obj in self.objs:
> ? ? ? ? ? ?t = obj.intersect(ray)
> ? ? ? ? ? ?if (t != None):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?tlist.append((obj,t))
>
> with a list comprehension- can it be done?

Yes:
tlist = [pair for pair in ((obj, obj.intersect(ray)) for obj in
self.objs) if pair[1] is not None]

Should it be done? Probably not. It's less readable and less efficient.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Sun Aug 23 19:59:34 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 16:59:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
	 
	
	
Message-ID: <277abf44-d218-45de-90c8-9bed0f1c8abf@k30g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>

On 24 Aug, 00:02, Dennis Lee Bieber  wrote:

> ? ? ? ? That's a C language problem -- since a string in C is just an array
> of character. The last FORTRAN dialect (and implementation) I used
> passed strings

On 24 Aug, 00:02, Dennis Lee Bieber  wrote:

> values -- FORTRAN strings were typically static, the called function
> could not reallocate to fit in longer data and update the descriptor to
> match)


It is possible to pass an arbitrary length. You have to convert a
pointer from C to Fortran:

subroutine foobar(cstr) bind(c, name='foobar')
    use, intrinsic :: iso_c_binding
    type(c_ptr) :: cstr
    character(*), pointer :: fstr
    call c_f_pointer(cptr, fptr)

If you need the length, call strlen from libc.

I think the OP has misunderstood how the Fortran 2003 C bindings work.
They don't convert C pointers to Fortran strings or Fortran arryas.
They convert C pointers to Fortran pointers.


Sturla










From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Aug 23 20:05:38 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:05:38 +0900
Subject: Newbie: list comprehension troubles..
In-Reply-To: <50697b2c0908231636l77357d21icca87edf2248f15d@mail.gmail.com>
References: 
	<50697b2c0908231636l77357d21icca87edf2248f15d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

Chris Rebert wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 4:27 PM, mm wrote:
>> Hi, I'm trying to replace this...
>>
>>        # this works but there must be a more pythonic way, right?

'Pythonic' is readable, if nothing else

>>        tlist = []
>>        for obj in self.objs:
>>            t = obj.intersect(ray)
>>            if (t != None):
>>                tlist.append((obj,t))

This, to me, is more readable than the lc replacement.

>>
>> with a list comprehension- can it be done?
> 
> Yes:
> tlist = [pair for pair in ((obj, obj.intersect(ray)) for obj in
> self.objs) if pair[1] is not None]
> 
> Should it be done? Probably not. It's less readable and less efficient.

I agree.

tjr



From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Sun Aug 23 20:06:43 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 17:06:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
	 
	
	 
	<277abf44-d218-45de-90c8-9bed0f1c8abf@k30g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On 24 Aug, 01:59, sturlamolden  wrote:

> subroutine foobar(cstr) bind(c, name='foobar')
> ? ? use, intrinsic :: iso_c_binding
> ? ? type(c_ptr) :: cstr
> ? ? character(*), pointer :: fstr
> ? ? call c_f_pointer(cptr, fptr)
>

Which means that you can write a wrapper in Fortran callable from C,
that calls a Fortran routine you want to expose:

subroutine wrap_foobar(cstr) bind(c, name='foobar')
    use, intrinsic :: iso_c_binding
    type(c_ptr) :: cstr
    character(*), pointer :: fstr
    call c_f_pointer(cptr, fptr)
    call foobar(fstr)
end subroutine

subroutine foobar(fstr)
    character(*) :: fstr
    ! whatever
end subroutine

This by the way is how wrap exposes Fortran functions to Cython.














From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sun Aug 23 20:09:29 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:09:29 +1000
Subject: Newbie: list comprehension troubles..
References: 
	
Message-ID: <87ab1qgjie.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Chris Rebert  writes:

> tlist = [pair for pair in ((obj, obj.intersect(ray)) for obj in
> self.objs) if pair[1] is not None]
>
> Should it be done? Probably not. [Compared to a ?for? suite with an
> ?if? suite, it's] less readable and less efficient.

I disagree on the ?less efficient?, unless you've measured it. The
Python compiler and machine make list comprehensions and generator
expressions turn into quite efficient code.

I also disagree on ?less readable?, if you show the structure and choose
meaningful names (I can only guess at the meaning from the OP's code)::

    tribbles = [
        (obj, tribble) for (obj, tribble) in (
            (obj, obj.intersect(ray))
            for obj in self.objs)
        if tribble is not None]

-- 
 \     ?I must say that I find television very educational. The minute |
  `\       somebody turns it on, I go to the library and read a book.? |
_o__)                                                    ?Groucho Marx |
Ben Finney


From find.mig at paa.google  Sun Aug 23 20:14:24 2009
From: find.mig at paa.google (Esben von Buchwald)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 02:14:24 +0200
Subject: Protecting against callbacks queuing up?
Message-ID: <4a91db65$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>

Hello

I'm using Python for S60 1.9.7 on my Nokia phone.

I've made a program that gets input from an accelerometer sensor, and 
then calculates some stuff and displays the result.

The sensor framework API does a callback to a function defined by me, 
every time new data is available.

The problem is, that sometimes, the calculations may take longer than 
others, but if the callback is called before the first calculation is 
done, it seems like it's queuing up all the callbacks, and execute them 
sequentially, afterwards.

What I need, is to simply ignore the callback, if the previous call 
hasn't finished it's operations before it's called again.

I thought that this code would do the trick, but it obviously doesn't 
help at all, and i can't understand why...

     def doCallback(self):
         if self.process_busy==False:
             self.process_busy=True
             self.data_callback()
             self.process_busy=False


doCallback is defined as a callback function for the accelerometer 
instance, and data_callback does some calculations and show them on the 
display of the phone.

What to do? Thanks...


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Aug 23 20:17:11 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 24 Aug 2009 00:17:11 GMT
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<4a918fe0$0$30226$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <02a1cc1d$0$30337$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 23 Aug 2009 20:52:16 +0200, Stefan Behnel wrote:

> Simon Brunning wrote:
>> 2009/8/11 Robert Dailey:
>>> On Aug 11, 3:40 pm, Bearophile wrote:
>>>> There are gals too here.
>>> It's a figure of speech. And besides, why would I want programming
>>> advice from a woman? lol. Thanks for the help.
>> 
>> Give the attitudes still prevalent in our industry (cf
>>  and many more), I'm sorry to say that I
>> don't think this is funny.
> 
> Me neither.
> 
> I used to reply with comments like "you just missed more than half of
> the world's population" to people who started their postings with "hi
> guys!", 

If you start your post with "Hi guys", you've missed more than EIGHTY 
percent of the world's population, namely the 5.5 to 6 billion people who 
speak no English. To say nothing of the 99.9% of the world's population 
who couldn't help you with your query, even if they spoke English, and 
even if they were on the Internet.

In that case, missing out on the small percentage of English-speaking 
women who don't know that "guys" has become sexless probably doesn't 
matter.

(I'm amused and somewhat perplexed that somebody with the non-English 
name of Stefan, writing from a .de email address, seems to be assuming 
that (1) everybody is on the Internet, and (2) everybody on the Internet 
speaks English. Awareness of sexism is a good thing, but so is awareness 
of cultural chauvinism.)



> and I stopped doing that as a) it became too tiring, especially
> on a potentially-for-newbees group like c.l.py, and b) to many people it
> actually *is* a figure of speech.
> 
> But reading statements like the above really makes me feel that it's
> best to comment even on simple things like "hi guys!".

Or you could enter the 21 century and understand that "guys" has become a 
generic term for people of any sex.




-- 
Steven


From nospam at see.signature  Sun Aug 23 20:26:31 2009
From: nospam at see.signature (Richard Maine)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 17:26:31 -0700
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: <1j4ww90.pvvxweehycu0N%nospam@see.signature>

sturlamolden  wrote:

> On 23 Aug, 20:42, n... at cam.ac.uk wrote:
> 
> > That is precisely what I am investigating.  TR 29113 falls a LONG
> > way before it gets to any of the OOP data - indeed, you can't even
> > pass OOP derived types as pure data (without even the functionality)
> > in its model.  Nor most of what else Python would expect.
> 
> I am note sure what you mean. ...
> You thus can pass derived types between C and Fortran.

You missed the word "OOP", which seemed like the whole point. Not that
the particular word is used in the Fortran standard, but it isn't hard
to guess that he means a derived type that uses some of the OOP
features. Inheritance, polymorphism, and type-bound procedure (aka
methods in some other languages) come to mind. Since you say that you
haven't used any of the F2003 OOP features, it isn't too surprising that
you'd miss the allusion.

-- 
Richard Maine                    | Good judgment comes from experience;
email: last name at domain . net | experience comes from bad judgment.
domain: summertriangle           |  -- Mark Twain


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sun Aug 23 20:34:41 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 01:34:41 +0100
Subject: Protecting against callbacks queuing up?
In-Reply-To: <4a91db65$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
References: <4a91db65$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
Message-ID: <4A91E021.1040502@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Esben von Buchwald wrote:
> Hello
> 
> I'm using Python for S60 1.9.7 on my Nokia phone.
> 
> I've made a program that gets input from an accelerometer sensor, and 
> then calculates some stuff and displays the result.
> 
> The sensor framework API does a callback to a function defined by me, 
> every time new data is available.
> 
> The problem is, that sometimes, the calculations may take longer than 
> others, but if the callback is called before the first calculation is 
> done, it seems like it's queuing up all the callbacks, and execute them 
> sequentially, afterwards.
> 
> What I need, is to simply ignore the callback, if the previous call 
> hasn't finished it's operations before it's called again.
> 
> I thought that this code would do the trick, but it obviously doesn't 
> help at all, and i can't understand why...
> 
>     def doCallback(self):
>         if self.process_busy==False:
>             self.process_busy=True
>             self.data_callback()
>             self.process_busy=False
> 
> 
> doCallback is defined as a callback function for the accelerometer 
> instance, and data_callback does some calculations and show them on the 
> display of the phone.
> 
If it is, in fact, queuing the callbacks then that means that it's just
recording that the callback needs to be called, but doesn't actually do
it while a previous one is in effect, ie it'll wait for the current call
to return before doing the next one.

> What to do? Thanks...

If you want to try multithreading you could make the callback just
trigger the actual action in another thread. The other thread could wait
for an event, perform the calculation, then clear any pending events
before waiting again.


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Sun Aug 23 20:39:34 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 17:39:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
	 
	
	
	<1j4ww90.pvvxweehycu0N%nospam@see.signature>
Message-ID: <5134d9f1-0e23-4e05-a817-bf0cc9e85d3e@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>

On 24 Aug, 02:26, nos... at see.signature (Richard Maine) wrote:

> You missed the word "OOP", which seemed like the whole point. Not that
> the particular word is used in the Fortran standard, but it isn't hard
> to guess that he means a derived type that uses some of the OOP
> features. Inheritance, polymorphism, and type-bound procedure (aka
> methods in some other languages) come to mind.

But C is not OOP. The ISO C bindings in Fortran are not ISO C++
bindings. This is for a reason: C++ does not have a standard ABI like
ISO C.



From david.lyon at preisshare.net  Sun Aug 23 20:46:12 2009
From: david.lyon at preisshare.net (David Lyon)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 20:46:12 -0400
Subject: install package in a particular python version
In-Reply-To: <99822c4d-74ef-4a28-b133-42144c7fd25a@f20g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
References: <4ae493d4-4669-4e54-a385-6d79d539a778@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<99822c4d-74ef-4a28-b133-42144c7fd25a@f20g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0e4f0ed1c46760d844a603fae3ebc3a3@preisshare.net>

On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 20:53:18 -0700 (PDT), Steve1234 
wrote:
> Benjamin suggested:
> sudo python2.5 setup.py install
> and it works.  This makes sense, thanks.
> 
> I downloaded pythonpkgmgr from source and installed it.  I got the
> error that reguired wx package was missing.  I couldn't find this
> package for Linux or source.

That's wxpython.

You'll need to look at http://www.wxpython.org/download.php#binaries

David




From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sun Aug 23 20:52:47 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 17:52:47 -0700
Subject: Newbie: list comprehension troubles..
In-Reply-To: <87ab1qgjie.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: 
	
	<87ab1qgjie.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908231752h2ec893fal92a9dc2d8a8d6aba@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 5:09 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
> Chris Rebert  writes:
>
>> tlist = [pair for pair in ((obj, obj.intersect(ray)) for obj in
>> self.objs) if pair[1] is not None]
>>
>> Should it be done? Probably not. [Compared to a ?for? suite with an
>> ?if? suite, it's] less readable and less efficient.
>
> I disagree on the ?less efficient?, unless you've measured it. The
> Python compiler and machine make list comprehensions and generator
> expressions turn into quite efficient code.

Well, I hadn't benchmarked it originally, but since you bring it up:

class Foo(object):
    def __init__(self, n):
        self.n = n
    def intersect(self, ray):
        return ray + self.n

objs = [Foo(n) for n in range(300)]
ray = 42


def listcomp(objs, ray):
    tlist = [pair for pair in ((obj, obj.intersect(ray)) for obj in
objs) if pair[1] is not None]

def naive(objs, ray):
    tlist = []
    for obj in objs:
        t = obj.intersect(ray)
        if t is not None:
            tlist.append((obj,t))

chris at morpheus Desktop $ python
Python 2.6.2 (r262:71600, May 14 2009, 16:34:51)
[GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Inc. build 5484)] on darwin
chris at morpheus Desktop $ python -m timeit -n 10000 -s 'from tmp import
naive, ray, objs' 'naive(objs, ray)'
10000 loops, best of 3: 227 usec per loop
chris at morpheus Desktop $ python -m timeit -n 10000 -s 'from tmp import
listcomp, ray, objs' 'listcomp(objs, ray)'
10000 loops, best of 3: 254 usec per loop

The numbers for each test stayed within a few usec of each other over
a few runs. I thus conclude that the list comprehension method is
indeed slower (which makes sense looking at the 2 algorithms).

> I also disagree on ?less readable?, if you show the structure and choose
> meaningful names (I can only guess at the meaning from the OP's code)::
>
> ? ?tribbles = [
> ? ? ? ?(obj, tribble) for (obj, tribble) in (
> ? ? ? ? ? ?(obj, obj.intersect(ray))
> ? ? ? ? ? ?for obj in self.objs)
> ? ? ? ?if tribble is not None]

I do concede it becomes somewhat more readable if split over multiple lines:

pairs = ((obj, obj.intersect(ray)) for obj in self.objs)
tlist = [pair for pair in pairs if pair[1] is not None]

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From nospam at see.signature  Sun Aug 23 20:57:52 2009
From: nospam at see.signature (Richard Maine)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 17:57:52 -0700
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
	
	
	
	<1j4ww90.pvvxweehycu0N%nospam@see.signature>
	<5134d9f1-0e23-4e05-a817-bf0cc9e85d3e@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1j4wx7d.18cr6dvw3j79yN%nospam@see.signature>

sturlamolden  wrote:

> On 24 Aug, 02:26, nos... at see.signature (Richard Maine) wrote:
> 
> > You missed the word "OOP", which seemed like the whole point. Not that
> > the particular word is used in the Fortran standard, but it isn't hard
> > to guess that he means a derived type that uses some of the OOP
> > features. Inheritance, polymorphism, and type-bound procedure (aka
> > methods in some other languages) come to mind.
> 
> But C is not OOP. The ISO C bindings in Fortran are not ISO C++
> bindings. This is for a reason: C++ does not have a standard ABI like
> ISO C.

That seems irrelevant to the question originally asked, which was

>>> Do you want to use Fortran derived types or Python classes that
>>> contain type-bound procedures (including finalizers)?

Yes, it is no surprise that the C interop stuff fails to address this,
since it isn't in C. Something different/extra would be needed, which is
exactly what Nick said. I'm going to jump out of the middle of this now.
The only reason I jumped in was to point out the gap in communication,
where Nick said that the TR doesn't handle "OOP derived types" and you
replied that it does so do derived types, omitting the OOP part, which
was clearly (to me) Nick's whole point.

However, I don't seem to be facilitating the communication, as the
replies just seem to be wandering farther afield, or maybe it is around
in a circle. I think you just explained that the ISO C bindings in
Fortran don't handle what Nick is asking about... but that somehow this
makes it puzzling that Nick also says that they don't handle it. Well,
I'll leave it to Nick and you, I guess. I'm lost.

-- 
Richard Maine                    | Good judgment comes from experience;
email: last name at domain . net | experience comes from bad judgment.
domain: summertriangle           |  -- Mark Twain


From maxerickson at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 21:19:53 2009
From: maxerickson at gmail.com (Max Erickson)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 01:19:53 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal
	notation
References: 
	
	
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
	
	
	<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com>
Message-ID: 

"bartc"  wrote:

> 
> "Scott David Daniels"  wrote in message 
> news:kN2dnSZR5b0BWAzXnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d at pdx.net...
>> James Harris wrote:...
>>> Another option:
> 
> It can be assumed however that .9. isn't in binary?
> 
> That's a neat idea. But an even simpler scheme might be:
> 
> .octal.100
> .decimal.100
> .hex.100
> .binary.100
> .trinary.100
> 
> until it gets to this anyway:
> 
> .thiryseximal.100
> 

At some point, abandoning direct support for literals and just 
having a function that can handle different bases starts to make a 
lot of sense to me:

>>> int('100', 8)
64
>>> int('100', 10)
100
>>> int('100', 16)
256
>>> int('100', 2)
4
>>> int('100', 3)
9
>>> int('100', 36)
1296


max



From voodoorai2000 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 21:25:11 2009
From: voodoorai2000 at gmail.com (Raimond Garcia)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 03:25:11 +0200
Subject: What is the recommended library for xml parsing?
In-Reply-To: <50697b2c0908231559vf6c42dcn321296edd7d033b7@mail.gmail.com>
References: 
	<50697b2c0908231559vf6c42dcn321296edd7d033b7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

+1

::results::

Cheers,

Peter Petrelli



On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 12:59 AM, Chris Rebert  wrote:

> On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 3:07 PM, Raimond Garcia
> wrote:
> > Is there a good build in library or should I use a third party one?
>
> xml.etree.ElementTree:
> http://docs.python.org/library/xml.etree.elementtree.html
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --
> http://blog.rebertia.com
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

From bot at letsdecide.us  Sun Aug 23 21:27:04 2009
From: bot at letsdecide.us (bot at letsdecide.us)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 01:27:04 +0000
Subject: What is the recommended library for xml parsing?
Message-ID: <4a91ec68908f7_7144..fdbe3c0dc13e@li86-209.tmail>

voodoorai2000 on gmail.com has asked me for the current status of our votation.. so here you go:

+1 => 1 vote
-1 => 0 votes

Time Line:
----------
(2009-08-24 01:25:11) Raimond Garcia: +1

Visit the fancy votation page:
* http://letsdecide.us/4130bc4e0051016cb377d3436f4e8e683ed820ed


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Sun Aug 23 21:28:24 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 18:28:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
	 
	
	 
	<277abf44-d218-45de-90c8-9bed0f1c8abf@k30g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <310696bd-f51e-42bc-80cf-89a2a9e04c0c@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On 24 Aug, 01:59, sturlamolden  wrote:

> subroutine foobar(cstr) bind(c, name='foobar')
> ? ? use, intrinsic :: iso_c_binding
> ? ? type(c_ptr) :: cstr
> ? ? character(*), pointer :: fstr
> ? ? call c_f_pointer(cptr, fptr)

Actually, this does not work, as it is illegal to create a pointer to
a character(*). However, we can create a pointer to a huge string (say
2 GB or whatever maximum the system allows), and slice that down to a
substring using strlen to obtain the length. So here is how to pass a
variable-length string from C to Fortran, tested with gcc and gfortran
4.1.1.


In foobar.f03:

subroutine wrap_foobar(cstr) bind(c, name='foobar')

    ! a wrapper for foobar we expose to C

    use, intrinsic :: iso_c_binding

    interface
        function strlen(cstr) bind(c, name='strlen')
           use, intrinsic :: iso_c_binding
           integer(c_int) :: strlen
           type(c_ptr), value :: cstr
        end function strlen
    end interface

    type(c_ptr), value :: cstr
    character(2147483647), pointer :: p_fstr
    integer :: n

    n = strlen(cstr)
    call c_f_pointer(cstr, p_fstr)
    call foobar(p_fstr(1:n))

end subroutine


subroutine foobar(fstr)
    ! this is the Fortran function we want to call from C
    ! it takes a variable length string as argument and print its
length
    character(*) :: fstr
    write (*,*) len(fstr)
end subroutine


In main.c:

extern void foobar(char *);

int main(int argc, char *argv[])
{
    foobar(argv[1]);
    return 0;
}






Sturla at STURLA-PC /d/fortrantest
$ gfortran -c foobar.f03

Sturla at STURLA-PC /d/fortrantest
$ gcc -c main.c

Sturla at STURLA-PC /d/fortrantest
$ gcc -o test.exe main.o foobar.o -lgfortran

Sturla at STURLA-PC /d/fortrantest
$ ./test 1234
           4

Sturla at STURLA-PC /d/fortrantest
$ ./test 0123456789
          10

So it works...




Regards,
Sturla Molden







From davea at ieee.org  Sun Aug 23 21:32:13 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:32:13 -0400
Subject: IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename: in windows
	xp while making tarfile
In-Reply-To: 
References: 		
	
Message-ID: <4A91ED9D.4090803@ieee.org>

John Machin wrote:
> Erik Max Francis  alcyone.com> writes:
>
>   
>> Ryniek90 wrote:
>>     
>
>   
>>> Is its the '|\U' literal fault in path '|C:\\Users\\Ryniek's 
>>> WinSe7en\\MyNewGGBackup(2009-08-23 14:59:02).tar.bz2|' ?
>>>       
>
> What is "the '|\U' literal fault" ???
>
>   
>> It's probably a misleading error from the OS; I would guess the problem 
>> is that the filename contains colons, which I believe is a no-no on Windows.
>>     
>
> The colons are the problem. The error message is not from the OS; it is
> concocted by Python (see fileobject.c) as what appears to be the best possible
> text given  vague error reporting by Windows. I don't understand "probably a
> misleading error [message]" -- invalid mode (actual value) or filename ->
> invalid something-obviously-not-invalid or filename -> invalid filename
>
>
>   
I also suspect the "pipe" symbol. I don't know if it's an invalid 
character to Windows, but it's certainly a bad idea.  The '|' character 
means something special to the shell.

DaveA



From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Sun Aug 23 21:40:06 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 18:40:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
	 
	
	
	<1j4ww90.pvvxweehycu0N%nospam@see.signature>
	<5134d9f1-0e23-4e05-a817-bf0cc9e85d3e@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1j4wx7d.18cr6dvw3j79yN%nospam@see.signature>
Message-ID: <800c6f66-7074-451f-8c1b-47c93d07c5a4@s13g2000yql.googlegroups.com>

On 24 Aug, 02:57, nos... at see.signature (Richard Maine) wrote:

> Yes, it is no surprise that the C interop stuff fails to address this,
> since it isn't in C. Something different/extra would be needed, which is
> exactly what Nick said. I'm going to jump out of the middle of this now.
> The only reason I jumped in was to point out the gap in communication,
> where Nick said that the TR doesn't handle "OOP derived types" and you
> replied that it does so do derived types, omitting the OOP part, which
> was clearly (to me) Nick's whole point.

You are right, I missed th OOP part.

It might be interesting in teh future to say inherit a Python class
from a Fortran 2003 derived type. I have no idea how to do this (I
don't know Fortran 2003 that well). But possibly one could do some
magic with the ISO C bindings, exposing the Fortran 2003 derived type
as a C etxtension class to Python.

Does anyone use OOP in Fortran anyway? I sure do not. And Fortran 2003
compilers are not ubiquitous. Fortran compilers tend to support a
subset for Fortran 2003, usually ISO C bindings but not OOP.


Sturla




























From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Sun Aug 23 21:46:18 2009
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (greg)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 13:46:18 +1200
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
In-Reply-To: 
References: 			<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>		
	<87ljlahbn9.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
Message-ID: <7fe9mbF2l83bmU1@mid.individual.net>

J. Cliff Dyer wrote:

> What happens if you use a literal like 0x10f 304?

To me the obvious thing to do is concatenate them
textually and then treat the whole thing as a single
numeric literal. Anything else wouldn't be sane, IMO.

-- 
Greg


From nospam at see.signature  Sun Aug 23 21:58:40 2009
From: nospam at see.signature (Richard Maine)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 18:58:40 -0700
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
	
	
	
	<1j4ww90.pvvxweehycu0N%nospam@see.signature>
	<5134d9f1-0e23-4e05-a817-bf0cc9e85d3e@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1j4wx7d.18cr6dvw3j79yN%nospam@see.signature>
	<800c6f66-7074-451f-8c1b-47c93d07c5a4@s13g2000yql.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1j4x00p.nyarf2ce8dxcN%nospam@see.signature>

sturlamolden  wrote:

> Does anyone use OOP in Fortran anyway?

Presumably not many people yet because...

> And Fortran 2003 compilers are not ubiquitous.

I'd not only agree, I'd say that was quite a bit understated. Last time
I checked, the number of Fortran 2003 compilers available on the most
widely used platforms was zero, which is quite a bit short of
ubiquitous. No I don't have an IBM workstation handy; or a Cray. Nor do
most people.

I did try playing with the Fortran OOP stuff quite a few years ago, when
NAG first added some of the OOP features to their f95 compiler. But
alas, although they added some of the OOP features, there were critical
parts that were not included. Play with it a little is all I could do. I
couldn't write any serious code, or even "play" very extensively. (Lack
of allocatable scalars was a show stopper; it seems so simple and isn't
even normally identified as an OOP feature per se, but you need it to do
much with OOP in F2003).

I'm told that NAG's 5.2 finally has the needed stuff, but it has been an
awful long time in coming... and still isn't yet here for anything but
Linux (I'm told "soon"). Some other compilers are also getting there.
But there is just no way that most people have spent much time
developing with compilers that adequately supported the f2003 OOP
features.

(I'd cite my formal comment on f2008, and maybe David Muxworthy's recent
article as well, but we've already been down that path.)

-- 
Richard Maine                    | Good judgment comes from experience;
email: last name at domain . net | experience comes from bad judgment.
domain: summertriangle           |  -- Mark Twain


From davea at ieee.org  Sun Aug 23 22:05:42 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 22:05:42 -0400
Subject: Is Python what I need?
In-Reply-To: <224ed882-b78e-4b75-afa8-35c907096469@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
References: <224ed882-b78e-4b75-afa8-35c907096469@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A91F576.30707@ieee.org>

newbie wrote:
> Hi all
> I'm interested in developing computer based, interactive programs for
> students in a special school who have an aversion to pen and paper.
> I've searched the net to find ready made software that will meet my
> needs but it is either written to a level much higher than these
> students can cope with or priced beyond our school budget. I came
> across a blog of someone singing the praises of Python. My question is
> therefore aimed at those that know what they are talking about (ie
> users in this group). Is Python the language I need to learn to
> develop these programs?
>
>   
I think I'm a bit confused as to just what you're intending, and what 
your background is.  So if this response doesn't fit, please don't be 
offended.

I'm guessing you don't want these special students to do any 
programming, but instead you just want to find/develop inexpensive 
applications for their use.  You have some specific ideas, but haven't 
found anything already available within your budget.

I'm also guessing that you're a total beginner at programming.  If so, I 
claim that most programs are much, much harder to write than you can 
imagine.  Python is one of the easiest languages to learn and to write 
things in, but even so, most  GUI programs take hundreds of hours to 
develop.  And I've been doing it for forty years, in about 30 languages.

DaveA



From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Sun Aug 23 22:10:12 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 02:10:12 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename: in
	=?utf-8?b?d2luZG93cwl4cA==?= while making tarfile
References: 		
	
	<4A91ED9D.4090803@ieee.org>
Message-ID: 

Dave Angel  ieee.org> writes:

 
> John Machin wrote:
> > Erik Max Francis  alcyone.com> writes:
  
> I also suspect the "pipe" symbol. I don't know if it's an invalid 
> character to Windows, but it's certainly a bad idea.  The '|' character 
> means something special to the shell.

The "pipe" character is not a valid character in a Windows file.
Despite the OP's message wrapping the filename in "pipes",
there are no pipes in the filename in the traceback to
which he posted a link.  Wrapping the filename in "pipes"
and the cryptic reference to "the '|\U' literal fault"
appear to be side-issue bogglements.

 >>> open('boggle|txt', 'wb')
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "", line 1, in 
 IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename: 'boggle|txt'
 >>> open('|boggle.txt|', 'wb')
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "", line 1, in 
 IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename: '|boggle.txt|'




From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Sun Aug 23 22:28:10 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 19:28:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is python faster than java?
References:  
	
Message-ID: 

On 23 Aug, 21:59, Emile van Sebille  wrote:

> Speed of what? Development? User interaction? Responsiveness to queries?


My personal view on the 'Is Python faster than Java' question:

- Coding? Yes, if you program 'pythonic'.

- String handling? Often.

- I/O and networking? Often.

- Iteration? No.

- Function calls and recursion? No.

- Arithmetics with elemental types? No.

- Numerics? Yes, if you use NumPy.

Is never interesting which language generates the most efficient code.
If that were the case, we would be writing everything in assembly. If
the code is fast enough, it is fast enough. Fast enough is sufficient.

If some part of the code turn out to be too slow, we have two options:
Either we use faster hardware, which is often the cheapest solution.
Or we can alternatively try to move that part to something less high-
level (Cython, C, C++, Fortran, assembly). Unlike Java, Python
integrates easily with C.

Also beware that Python is not Java: There is an old saying that you
can write FORTRAN in any language. You can also write Java in Python.
It will be just as slow to program as Java, and it will run a lot
slower than Java. Most of the complaints about 'Python being slow'
stems from people writing Java in Python.









From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sun Aug 23 22:29:20 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 12:29:20 +1000
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal
	notation
References: 
	
	
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
	
	
	<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com>
	
Message-ID: <8763cegd1b.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Max Erickson  writes:

> At some point, abandoning direct support for literals and just 
> having a function that can handle different bases starts to make a 
> lot of sense to me:
>
> >>> int('100', 8)
> 64
> >>> int('100', 10)
> 100
> >>> int('100', 16)
> 256
> >>> int('100', 2)
> 4
> >>> int('100', 3)
> 9
> >>> int('100', 36)
> 1296

Hah! You don't get me that easily, nobody would make something so simple
and obvious.

Right, guys?

-- 
 \       ?When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold to the masses |
  `\    over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and |
_o__)                    its speaker a raving lunatic.? ?Dresden James |
Ben Finney


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Sun Aug 23 22:34:41 2009
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (greg)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:34:41 +1200
Subject: __import__(x) VS __import__(x, {}, {}, [''])
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7fech5F2kofoqU1@mid.individual.net>

Phil wrote:
> I am trying to understand the difference between __import__(x) and
> __import__(x, {}, {}, ['']).
> 
> The documentations wording was a bit weird for me to understand:
> "The standard implementation does not use its locals argument at all,
> and uses its globals only to determine the package context of the
> import statement."
 >
 > Does that mean it passes in the globals by default, or does the above
 > statement stand true only if globals() is passed in?

Not sure what you mean by "it" in that question.

This is talking about the built-in implementation of
the __import__ function, and what it does with the
'globals' and 'locals' arguments that get passed to
it (by whatever means).

If you call it without a value for 'globals', it uses
the current value of globals().

The bytecode generated for the 'import' statement
always calls it with the current globals() and locals().

If you pass an empty dict for 'globals', I think the
effect will be to cause the module name to always be
interpreted as a top-level module (i.e. no relative
import). But I'm not sure.

-- 
Greg


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sun Aug 23 22:45:25 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 12:45:25 +1000
Subject: Literal concatenation,
	strings vs. numbers (was: Numeric literals in other than base 10 -
	was Annoying octal notation)
References: 
	
	
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	 <87ljlahbn9.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
	<7fe9mbF2l83bmU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <871vn2gcai.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>

greg  writes:

> J. Cliff Dyer wrote:
>
> > What happens if you use a literal like 0x10f 304?
>
> To me the obvious thing to do is concatenate them textually and then
> treat the whole thing as a single numeric literal. Anything else
> wouldn't be sane, IMO.

Yet, as was pointed out, that behaviour would be inconsistent with the
concatenation of string literals::

    >>> "abc" r'def' u"ghi" 'jkl'
    u'abcdefghijkl'

So, different representations of literals are parsed as separate
literals, then concatenated. To have the behaviour you describe, the
case needs to be made separately that digit concatenation should not be
consistent with the established string literal parsing behaviour.

-- 
 \        ?What if the Hokey Pokey IS what it's all about?? ?anonymous |
  `\                                                                   |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From phily05 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 22:58:42 2009
From: phily05 at gmail.com (Phil)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 19:58:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: __import__(x) VS __import__(x, {}, {}, [''])
References: 
	<7fech5F2kofoqU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <7d34f960-39a2-4447-9879-77a2794266a0@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

"If you call it without a value for 'globals', it uses the current
value of globals()."

Thanks, this is what I was trying to ask. I typed my question up way
too fast before dinner. You've been great help.


From kerensaelise at hotmail.com  Sun Aug 23 23:51:00 2009
From: kerensaelise at hotmail.com (elsa)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 20:51:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: sgmllib.py
Message-ID: 

Hi all,

I'm new to both this forum and Python, and I've got a bit stuck trying
to learn how to parse HTML.... here is my problem

I'm using a textbook that uses sgmllib.py for all its examples. I'm
aware that sgmllib is not in the current release, however I want to
get it to work, as I have python 2.5, and the text book uses it.

So, the first example says to type something like (to test the
sgmllib):

python sgmllib.py "path/to/my/file.html"  .... example (1)

this doesn't work for me. I think I have figured out the problem  -
the error says

"/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/Resources/
Python.app/Contents/MacOS/Python: can't open file 'sgmllib.py': [Errno
2] No such file or directory"

the problem is that this path is wrong. My sgmllib.py is in:

"/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/
python2.5/sgmllib.py"

if I substitute this path for sgmllib.py in example (1), everything
works fine. However, I don't want to do all that typing everytime I
want to use sgmllib.py. So, I thought maybe the problem was with
PYTHONPATH. I executed the following command:

export PYTHONPATH=/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/
2.5/li/python2.5:$PYTHONPATH

this seemed to work - no errors raised. However, when I retyped
example (1), I got the same original error.

Any assistance would be much appreciated. I'm working on max os x
leopard.

Thanks,

elsa


From doron.tal.list at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 23:51:05 2009
From: doron.tal.list at gmail.com (Doron Tal)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 06:51:05 +0300
Subject: Most "active" coroutine library project?
In-Reply-To: <64183b73-9cb0-4ce1-98d0-f47e13a818e4@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <64183b73-9cb0-4ce1-98d0-f47e13a818e4@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2a8674c60908232051p71e743d0g9136ff2672e846f9@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 6:02 PM, Phillip B Oldham
wrote:

> I've been taking a look at the multitude of coroutine libraries
> available for Python, but from the looks of the projects they all seem
> to be rather "quiet". I'd like to pick one up to use on a current
> project but can't deduce which is the most popular/has the largest
> community.
>
> Libraries I looked at include: cogen, weightless, eventlet and
> circuits (which isn't exactly coroutine-based but it's event-driven
> model was intriguing).
>
> Firstly, are there any others I've missed? And what would the
> consensus be on the which has the most active community behind it?
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

If you seek also event-driven libraries:
Twisted - http://twistedmatrix.com/trac/

--doron
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From mensanator at aol.com  Mon Aug 24 00:36:19 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:36:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> 
	
	 
	<1fa1663b-a1cb-42d4-890b-0617b73e8816@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> 
	<9b8c48a3-b050-4a13-83f5-bc4185c62bdc@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com> 
	 
	 
	<86bb893a-344a-4c7b-9fc6-67d9f42c7607@q14g2000vbi.googlegroups.com> 
	<62dbf088-4510-40d0-af3e-3feeb291d6e4@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com> 
	<4a9197c0$0$30226$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 23, 2:25?pm, Stefan Behnel  wrote:
> Mensanator wrote:
> > asking how many Jews you can fit into a Volswagen.
>
> None, because it's already full.

A spelling error does not make it any less offensive.

>
> (or "voll" as those who design Volkswagens would put it...)
>
> Stefan



From chaelon at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 01:09:45 2009
From: chaelon at gmail.com (c)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 22:09:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is Python what I need?
References: <224ed882-b78e-4b75-afa8-35c907096469@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <22af46a4-91d1-4941-b914-ce78f136a151@p15g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

> I'm interested in developing computer based, interactive programs

That is so open-ended it could mean anything.  If you give a much
more specified idea of what you are imagining creating, people could
be helpful.

> for students in a special school who have an aversion to pen and paper.


Aversion?  Why?  Is it that they have such bad penmanship that
writing
is too frustrating?  I've taught such students in college, and
suspect
(but do not know) that what would be good is to get them young and
really put in the remedial time to train their penmanship up to
sustained
legibility and speed.  Eventually society might go 100% electronic;
for now, being able to write notes on paper is very helpful, and
paper
is still such a great technology aside from renewable concerns, but
they can be greatly improved.  (I even suspect rigorous and successful
penmanship training might pay off in "general intelligence" gains)


> I've searched the net to find ready made software that will meet my
> needs but it is either written to a level much higher than these
> students can cope with or priced beyond our school budget. I came
> across a blog of someone singing the praises of Python. My question is
> therefore aimed at those that know what they are talking about (ie
> users in this group). Is Python the language I need to learn to
> develop these programs?

I agree with Dave A that writing a useful program is often far harder
than a beginner might imagine.  That said, much would depend on what
you would need the program to do.  Python, in my limited experience
as a hobbyist, strikes me as fairly easy to get started with in
programming, and yet can do a great deal, too.  So, as I said, more
details about the intended program would help people guide your
choice.

Che


From nagle at animats.com  Mon Aug 24 01:14:17 2009
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 22:14:17 -0700
Subject: basic thread question
In-Reply-To: 
References: <20090818201015.GP20434@dragontoe.org>
	
Message-ID: <4a922086$0$1619$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

Jan Kaliszewski wrote:
> 18-08-2009 o 22:10:15 Derek Martin  wrote:
> 
>> I have some simple threaded code...  If I run this
>> with an arg of 1 (start one thread), it pegs one cpu, as I would
>> expect.  If I run it with an arg of 2 (start 2 threads), it uses both
>> CPUs, but utilization of both is less than 50%.  Can anyone explain
>> why?
>>
>> I do not pretend it's impeccable code, and I'm not looking for a
>> critiqe of the code per se, excepting the case where what I've written
>> is actually *wrong*. I hacked this together in a couple of minutes,
>> with the intent of pegging my CPUs.  Performance with two threads is
>> actually *worse* than with one, which is highly unintuitive.  I can
>> accomplish my goal very easily with bash, but I still want to
>> understand what's going on here...
>>
>> The OS is Linux 2.6.24, on a Ubuntu base.  Here's the code:
> 
> Python threads can't benefit from multiple processors (because of GIL,
> see: http://docs.python.org/glossary.html#term-global-interpreter-lock).

     This is a CPython implementation restriction.  It's not inherent in
the language.

     Multiple threads make overall performance worse because Python's
approach to thread locking produces a large number of context switches.
The interpreter unlocks the "Global Interpreter Lock" every N interpreter
cycles and on any system call that can block, which, if there is a
thread waiting, causes a context switch.

     Multiple Python processes can run concurrently, but each process
has a copy of the entire Python system, so the memory and cache footprints are
far larger than for multiple threads.

				John Nagle


From graham.dumpleton at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 02:51:33 2009
From: graham.dumpleton at gmail.com (Graham Dumpleton)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 23:51:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: web frameworks that support Python 3
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 24, 6:34?am, Sebastian Wiesner  wrote:
> At Sunday 23 August 2009 22:13:16 you wrote:> I use Chinese and therefore Unicode very heavily, and so Python 3 is
> > an unavoidable choice for me.
>
> Python 2.x supports Unicode just as well as Python 3. ?Every common web
> framework works perfectly with unicode.
>
> In any case, there is bottle [1], which provides a *very minimal* framework
> for WSGI web development. ?Don't expect too much, it is really small, and
> doesn't do much more than routing and minimal templating.
>
> However, it is the only Python-3-compatible web framework I know of.
>
> [1]http://bottle.paws.de/page/start

There is one big flaw with your claim. That is the there is no WSGI
specification for Python 3.0 as yet. Anything that claims to work with
WSGI and Python 3.0 is just a big guess as far as how WSGI for Python
3.0 may work.

I would therefore be a bit cautious with your claim.

Graham



From kerensaelise at hotmail.com  Mon Aug 24 03:04:57 2009
From: kerensaelise at hotmail.com (elsa)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 00:04:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: elementtree
Message-ID: <3037e686-d552-4373-a822-75a43b274cca@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

I have a question about elementtree:

I know how to turn HTML into an ElementTree object, but I don't know
how to then view the structure of this object. Is there a method or
module that you can give an ElementTree object to, and it returns some
kind of graphical or printed representation of the tree? Otherwise, if
you can't see you're tree's structure, how do you know what is a
sensible way of iterating over the tree to access the info you need?

Thanks!


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Aug 24 03:08:07 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:08:07 +0200
Subject: sgmllib.py
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4a923c57$0$32664$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>

elsa wrote:
> I'm new to both this forum and Python, and I've got a bit stuck trying
> to learn how to parse HTML...

If what you want to do is *parse* the HTML instead of trying to *learn* how
to parse it, you might want to give the existing (external) HTML parser
libraries a try. There's lxml.html (extremely fast and fixes up broken
HTML), html5lib (very slow, but very browser-like parse results) and
BeautifulSoup (slow, but good encoding detection if you need that).

Here are a couple of (only slightly biased) comparisons:

http://blog.ianbicking.org/2008/03/30/python-html-parser-performance/
http://blog.ianbicking.org/2008/12/10/lxml-an-underappreciated-web-scraping-library/


> python sgmllib.py "path/to/my/file.html"  .... example (1)
> 
> this doesn't work for me. I think I have figured out the problem  -
> the error says
> 
> "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/Resources/
> Python.app/Contents/MacOS/Python: can't open file 'sgmllib.py': [Errno
> 2] No such file or directory"
> 
> the problem is that this path is wrong. My sgmllib.py is in:
> 
> "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/
> python2.5/sgmllib.py"

You can use "python -m sgmllib" to call a module from the stdlib (or the
PYTHONPATH, to be more accurate).

But note that sgmllib is a particularly cumbersome way to deal with HTML.

Stefan


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Aug 24 03:13:14 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:13:14 +0200
Subject: elementtree
In-Reply-To: <3037e686-d552-4373-a822-75a43b274cca@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <3037e686-d552-4373-a822-75a43b274cca@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a923d8b$0$32664$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>

Hi,

elsa wrote:
> I know how to turn HTML into an ElementTree object

I don't. ;)

ElementTree doesn't have an HTML parser, so what do you use for parsing?


> but I don't know
> how to then view the structure of this object. Is there a method or
> module that you can give an ElementTree object to, and it returns some
> kind of graphical or printed representation of the tree? Otherwise, if
> you can't see you're tree's structure, how do you know what is a
> sensible way of iterating over the tree to access the info you need?

ElementTree has a tostring() method that returns a string. To get a pretty
printed representation, you can use the indent() function from this recipe:

http://effbot.org/zone/element-lib.htm#prettyprint

Stefan


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Aug 24 03:16:32 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:16:32 +0200
Subject: [ANN] pyxser-1.2r --- Python-Object to XML serialization module
In-Reply-To: <2571343.k9db9GJWqV@coder.cl>
References: <2571343.k9db9GJWqV@coder.cl>
Message-ID: <4a923e50$0$32664$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>

Daniel Molina Wegener wrote:
>         * Added encoded serialization of Unicode strings by using
>         the user defined encoding as is passed to the serialization
>         functions as enc parameter
> 
> As you see, now Unicode strings are serialized as encoded byte string
> by using the encoding that the user pass as enc parameter to the
> serialization function. This means that Unicode strings are serialized
> in a human readable form, regarding a better interoperability with
> other platforms.

You mean, the whole XML document is serialised with that encoding, right?

Stefan


From osky50 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 03:25:44 2009
From: osky50 at gmail.com (osky)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 00:25:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python and JMS
Message-ID: <679a2898-abf1-4938-a456-59e0bf5ba666@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

Hi all,

I would like to make a JMS client connection from Python to Progress
Sonic ESB (JMS message provider similar to WebSphere MQ or Active
MQ).

What would be the best way to implement that within Python 2.6 ?
Any ideas ?

Thanks
Oscar


From ajoys123 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 03:39:21 2009
From: ajoys123 at gmail.com (devaru)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 00:39:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Simple IRC library
Message-ID: <752884c5-c6fb-4974-a21a-bf3017fa4145@y4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

Hi all,
I am new to Python language. I want to capture(either in database or a
file) the conversation in IRC.
Please suggest me some simple IRC library or code snippet for this.


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Aug 24 03:40:03 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:40:03 +0200
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
In-Reply-To: <02a1cc1d$0$30337$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>		<4a918fe0$0$30226$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net>
	<02a1cc1d$0$30337$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4a9243d3$0$32677$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> I'm amused and somewhat perplexed that somebody with the non-English 
> name of Stefan, writing from a .de email address, seems to be assuming 
> that (1) everybody is on the Internet, and (2) everybody on the Internet 
> speaks English.

Oh, I totally don't. But most people who read c.l.py do at least understand
it to a certain extent. I don't commonly read /that/ many
non-english-speaking Python forums thoroughly enough to assume that the OP
posted the question only in English and only in c.l.py. I don't even assume
that he only posted that question to an Internet newsgroup. You know,
there's real-life, too.


>> But reading statements like the above really makes me feel that it's
>> best to comment even on simple things like "hi guys!".
> 
> Or you could enter the 21 century and understand that "guys" has become a 
> generic term for people of any sex.

Is that true for everyone who understands and/or writes English? In that
case, I'm fine with your above statement. Otherwise, I'd wonder who you
meant with the term "cultural chauvinism". So far, I only learned that most
North-American English native speakers use that term in the way you refer
to. That doesn't even get you close to the majority of English speakers.

Stefan


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Aug 24 03:43:49 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:43:49 +0200
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<1fa1663b-a1cb-42d4-890b-0617b73e8816@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<9b8c48a3-b050-4a13-83f5-bc4185c62bdc@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<86bb893a-344a-4c7b-9fc6-67d9f42c7607@q14g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	<62dbf088-4510-40d0-af3e-3feeb291d6e4@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	<4a9197c0$0$30226$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net>
	
Message-ID: <4a9244b5$0$32671$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>

Mensanator wrote:
> On Aug 23, 2:25?pm, Stefan Behnel wrote:
>> Mensanator wrote:
>>> asking how many Jews you can fit into a Volswagen.
>> None, because it's already full.
> 
> A spelling error does not make it any less offensive.

As it stands, I find the joke above perfectly acceptable. Using the word
"Jew" in a joke doesn't make it anti-semitic by default.

Stefan


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Mon Aug 24 03:51:37 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:51:37 +0200
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal
	notation
References: 
	
	
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Scott David Daniels  (SDD) wrote:

>SDD> James Harris wrote:...
>>> Another option:
>>> 
>>> 0.(2:1011), 0.(8:7621), 0.(16:c26b)
>>> 
>>> where the three characters "0.(" begin the sequence.
>>> 
>>> Comments? Improvements?

>SDD> I did a little interpreter where non-base 10 numbers
>SDD> (up to base 36) were:

>SDD>     .7.100   == 64  (octal)
>SDD>     .9.100   == 100 (decimal)
>SDD>     .F.100   == 256 (hexadecimal)
>SDD>     .1.100   == 4   (binary)
>SDD>     .3.100   == 9   (trinary)
>SDD>     .Z.100   == 46656 (base 36)

I wonder how you wrote that interpreter, given that some answers are wrong.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From max at alcyone.com  Mon Aug 24 04:05:40 2009
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 01:05:40 -0700
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
In-Reply-To: 
References: 			<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>			
	
Message-ID: 

MRAB wrote:
> James Harris wrote:
>> On 23 Aug, 00:16, Mel  wrote:
>>> James Harris wrote:
>>>> I have no idea why Ada which uses the # also apparently uses it to end
>>>> a number
>>>>   2#1011#, 8#7621#, 16#c26b#
>>> Interesting.  They do it because of this example from
>>> :
>>
>> Thanks for providing an explanation.
>>
>>> 2#1#E8                    -- an integer literal of value 256
>>>
>>> where the E prefixes a power-of-2 exponent, and can't be taken as a 
>>> digit of
>>> the radix.  That is to say
>>>
>>> 16#1#E2
>>>
>>> would also equal 256, since it's 1*16**2 .
>>
>> Here's another suggested number literal format. First, keep the
>> familar 0x and 0b of C and others and to add 0t for octal. (T is the
>> third letter of octal as X is the third letter of hex.) The numbers
>> above would be
>>
>>   0b1011, 0t7621, 0xc26b
>>
>> Second, allow an arbitrary number base by putting base and number in
>> quotes after a zero as in
>>
>>   0"2:1011", 0"8:7621", 0"16:c26b"
>>
> Why not just put the base first, followed by the value in quotes:
> 
>     2"1011", 8"7621", 16"c26b"

It's always a bit impressive how syntax suggestions get more and more 
involved and, if you'll forgive me for saying, ridiculous as the 
conversation continues.  This is starting to get truly nutty.

What I've done in my projects is simply extend the pattern of 0x... for 
hexadecimal literals in C to 0b... for binary, 0o... for octal, 0d... 
for decimal (though redundant as that's the default), and so on.  (Go 
crazy and add 0t... for trinary and 0q... for quaternary if you feel 
like it.)  To me this always seemed elegant, simple, and understandable.

If arbitrary radix values is what's desirable, then some syntax like

	r

(e.g., 8r024222570 for an octal number which represents a very lame 
joke) would work, but seems to me like huge overkill.  A normal string 
literal coupled with a "constructor" type function would seem far more 
appropriate -- and we already have that with `int`.

As for large literals, I'd go with having spaces indicate automatic 
concatenation (though only the first in the series can indicate the 
radix, whichever method you choose above).  It's the same as for 
strings, and it's the common SI recommendation for thousands separators 
anyway.

-- 
Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
  San Jose, CA, USA && 37 18 N 121 57 W && AIM/Y!M/Skype erikmaxfrancis
   The little I know, I owe to my ignorance.
    -- Sacha Guitry


From max at alcyone.com  Mon Aug 24 04:12:22 2009
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 01:12:22 -0700
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal
	notation
In-Reply-To: 
References: 			<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>		
	<87ljlahbn9.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
Message-ID: 

J. Cliff Dyer wrote:
> I had an objection to using spaces in numeric literals last time around
> and it still stands, and it still stands in the new one.
> 
> What happens if you use a literal like 0x10f 304?  Is 304 treated as
> decimal or hexadecimal?  It's not clear how you would begin to combine
> it.

Well, you can't combine them in any meaningful mathematical or 
computational sense if they're of different bases, so the answer lies 
therein:  You shouldn't be allowed to do that.

> The way string concatenation works, it takes two independent string
> literals, and combines them.  If you specify r'\n' 'abc\n', the first
> half is treated independently as a raw string, and the second half is
> treated as a normal string.  The result is '\\nabc\n'.
> 
> With numeric literals, this behavior doesn't even make sense.  How do
> you concatenate hex 10f with decimal 304?

You can't, and the operation makes no sense, which is what makes the 
syntax unambiguous.  An extended numeric literal continues the radix of 
wherever it started.

-- 
Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
  San Jose, CA, USA && 37 18 N 121 57 W && AIM/Y!M/Skype erikmaxfrancis
   Do not seek death. Death will find you.
    -- Dag Hammarskjold


From james.harris.1 at googlemail.com  Mon Aug 24 04:16:07 2009
From: james.harris.1 at googlemail.com (James Harris)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 01:16:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
References:  
	
	 
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com> 
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
	
	
	<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com> 
	
Message-ID: 

On 24 Aug, 02:19, Max Erickson  wrote:

...

> > It can be assumed however that .9. isn't in binary?
>
> > That's a neat idea. But an even simpler scheme might be:
>
> > .octal.100
> > .decimal.100
> > .hex.100
> > .binary.100
> > .trinary.100
>
> > until it gets to this anyway:
>
> > .thiryseximal.100
>
> At some point, abandoning direct support for literals and just
> having a function that can handle different bases starts to make a
> lot of sense to me:
>
> >>> int('100', 8)
> 64
> >>> int('100', 10)
> 100
> >>> int('100', 16)
> 256
> >>> int('100', 2)
> 4
> >>> int('100', 3)
> 9
> >>> int('100', 36)
> 1296

This is fine typed into the language directly but couldn't be entered
by the user or read-in from or written to a file.

James


From max at alcyone.com  Mon Aug 24 04:20:02 2009
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 01:20:02 -0700
Subject: Literal concatenation, strings vs. numbers
In-Reply-To: <871vn2gcai.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
References: 			<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>		
	<87ljlahbn9.fsf@benfinney.id.au>		<7fe9mbF2l83bmU1@mid.individual.net>
	<871vn2gcai.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: 

Ben Finney wrote:
> Yet, as was pointed out, that behaviour would be inconsistent with the
> concatenation of string literals::
> 
>     >>> "abc" r'def' u"ghi" 'jkl'
>     u'abcdefghijkl'
> 
> So, different representations of literals are parsed as separate
> literals, then concatenated. To have the behaviour you describe, the
> case needs to be made separately that digit concatenation should not be
> consistent with the established string literal parsing behaviour.

Since digit concatenation can't possibly be useful any other way, it 
makes perfect sense.

Why is the operator ** right-to-left associative?  The same basic 
reason:  Because it would be dumb for it not to be.  Does that make it 
confusing and inconsistent compared to most of the other binary 
operators?  In some sense, yes, it does.  But it also makes it sane.  Is 
anyone so upset by this that it didn't make it into the language, or 
cause huge confusion on a regular basis that upsets a lot of users?  Nope.

-- 
Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
  San Jose, CA, USA && 37 18 N 121 57 W && AIM/Y!M/Skype erikmaxfrancis
   Do not seek death. Death will find you.
    -- Dag Hammarskjold


From nmm1 at cam.ac.uk  Mon Aug 24 04:24:50 2009
From: nmm1 at cam.ac.uk (nmm1 at cam.ac.uk)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:24:50 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
	
	<1j4ww90.pvvxweehycu0N%nospam@see.signature>
	<5134d9f1-0e23-4e05-a817-bf0cc9e85d3e@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

In article <5134d9f1-0e23-4e05-a817-bf0cc9e85d3e at w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>,
sturlamolden   wrote:
>On 24 Aug, 02:26, nos... at see.signature (Richard Maine) wrote:
>
>> You missed the word "OOP", which seemed like the whole point. Not that
>> the particular word is used in the Fortran standard, but it isn't hard
>> to guess that he means a derived type that uses some of the OOP
>> features. Inheritance, polymorphism, and type-bound procedure (aka
>> methods in some other languages) come to mind.
>
>But C is not OOP. The ISO C bindings in Fortran are not ISO C++
>bindings. This is for a reason: C++ does not have a standard ABI like
>ISO C.

Nor does C.  Almost everything that most people believe about C is
wrong, because C is not well-defined at any level, so there are
many twisty little C languages, all different.

Richard is perfectly correct that my point was OOP.  C interoperability
does not apply to any derived type with type-bound procedures, which
include finalizers.  Note that this ALSO forbids them from being
passed as data, even if the other language never uses the OOP features
of the type.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.


From james.harris.1 at googlemail.com  Mon Aug 24 04:25:35 2009
From: james.harris.1 at googlemail.com (James Harris)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 01:25:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
References:  
	
	 
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com> 
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

On 24 Aug, 09:05, Erik Max Francis  wrote:

...

> >> Here's another suggested number literal format. First, keep the
> >> familar 0x and 0b of C and others and to add 0t for octal. (T is the
> >> third letter of octal as X is the third letter of hex.) The numbers
> >> above would be
>
> >> ? 0b1011, 0t7621, 0xc26b
>
> >> Second, allow an arbitrary number base by putting base and number in
> >> quotes after a zero as in
>
> >> ? 0"2:1011", 0"8:7621", 0"16:c26b"
>
> > Why not just put the base first, followed by the value in quotes:
>
> > ? ? 2"1011", 8"7621", 16"c26b"
>
> It's always a bit impressive how syntax suggestions get more and more
> involved and, if you'll forgive me for saying, ridiculous as the
> conversation continues. ?This is starting to get truly nutty.

Why do you say that here? MRAB's suggestion is one of the clearest
there has been. And it incorporates the other requirements: starts
with a digit, allows an appropriate alphabet, has no issues with
spacing digit groups, shows clearly where the number ends and could
take an exponent suffix.

James


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Mon Aug 24 04:29:20 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:29:20 +0200
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal
	notation
In-Reply-To: <9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com>
References: 
	
	<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com>
Message-ID: <200908241029.20487.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Monday 24 August 2009 01:04:37 bartc wrote:

> That's a neat idea. But an even simpler scheme might be:
>
> .octal.100
> .decimal.100
> .hex.100
> .binary.100
> .trinary.100
>
> until it gets to this anyway:
>
> .thiryseximal.100

Yeah right.  So now I first have to type a string, which probably has a strict 
spelling, before a number.  It is only marginally less stupid than this:

1.0										- Unary
11.0101									- Binary
111. 012012 							- Trinary
11111111.01234567						- Octal
1111111111.0123456789					- Decimal
1111111111111111.0123456789abcdef	- Hex

Any parser that can count will immediately know what to do.

I also tried to include an example of a literal with a base of a Googol but I 
ran out of both ink and symbols.
:-)
- Hendrik


From max at alcyone.com  Mon Aug 24 04:30:11 2009
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 01:30:11 -0700
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: <_oidnbiiYrgJ0g_XnZ2dnUVZ_uVi4p2d@giganews.com>

James Harris wrote:
> On 24 Aug, 09:05, Erik Max Francis  wrote:
>>>> Here's another suggested number literal format. First, keep the
>>>> familar 0x and 0b of C and others and to add 0t for octal. (T is the
>>>> third letter of octal as X is the third letter of hex.) The numbers
>>>> above would be
>>>>   0b1011, 0t7621, 0xc26b
>>>> Second, allow an arbitrary number base by putting base and number in
>>>> quotes after a zero as in
>>>>   0"2:1011", 0"8:7621", 0"16:c26b"
>>> Why not just put the base first, followed by the value in quotes:
>>>     2"1011", 8"7621", 16"c26b"
>> It's always a bit impressive how syntax suggestions get more and more
>> involved and, if you'll forgive me for saying, ridiculous as the
>> conversation continues.  This is starting to get truly nutty.
> 
> Why do you say that here? MRAB's suggestion is one of the clearest
> there has been. And it incorporates the other requirements: starts
> with a digit, allows an appropriate alphabet, has no issues with
> spacing digit groups, shows clearly where the number ends and could
> take an exponent suffix.

In your opinion.  Obviously not in others.  Which is pretty obviously 
what I meant, so the rhetorical question is a bit weird here.

There's a reason that languages designed by committee end up horrific 
nightmares.

-- 
Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
  San Jose, CA, USA && 37 18 N 121 57 W && AIM/Y!M/Skype erikmaxfrancis
   Do not seek death. Death will find you.
    -- Dag Hammarskjold


From max at alcyone.com  Mon Aug 24 04:35:47 2009
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 01:35:47 -0700
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
	
	
	<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

James Harris wrote:
> On 24 Aug, 02:19, Max Erickson  wrote:
>>> It can be assumed however that .9. isn't in binary?
>>> That's a neat idea. But an even simpler scheme might be:
>>> .octal.100
>>> .decimal.100
>>> .hex.100
>>> .binary.100
>>> .trinary.100
>>> until it gets to this anyway:
>>> .thiryseximal.100
>> At some point, abandoning direct support for literals and just
>> having a function that can handle different bases starts to make a
>> lot of sense to me:
>>
>>>>> int('100', 8)
>> 64
>>>>> int('100', 10)
>> 100
>>>>> int('100', 16)
>> 256
>>>>> int('100', 2)
>> 4
>>>>> int('100', 3)
>> 9
>>>>> int('100', 36)
>> 1296
> 
> This is fine typed into the language directly but couldn't be entered
> by the user or read-in from or written to a file.

Why would a programmer be expecting an arbitrary-radix numeric literal 
typed in by a user or read from a file?  If you're reading it from a 
file, you've already got it in some satisfactory form, binary or 
otherwise.  If you're taking it as input from a user, they're not going 
to know the Python syntax anyway, and would type in the radix and then 
the literal (in the unlikely case this would ever be required, which is 
still hard to imagine).

Either way, conversion is, as Max showed, one line of code.  It's hard 
to see the explicit need for truly arbitrary-radix literals in any 
language -- and I'm the guy who's put quaternary literals in syntaxes 
he's had to develop just for fun.  Binary, octal, decimal, hexadecimal, 
sure.  Beyond that it's a solution begging for problems.

-- 
Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
  San Jose, CA, USA && 37 18 N 121 57 W && AIM/Y!M/Skype erikmaxfrancis
   Do not seek death. Death will find you.
    -- Dag Hammarskjold


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Mon Aug 24 04:40:06 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:40:06 +0200
Subject: Protecting against callbacks queuing up?
In-Reply-To: <4a91db65$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
References: <4a91db65$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
Message-ID: <200908241040.06613.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Monday 24 August 2009 02:14:24 Esben von Buchwald wrote:
> Hello
>
> I'm using Python for S60 1.9.7 on my Nokia phone.
>
> I've made a program that gets input from an accelerometer sensor, and
> then calculates some stuff and displays the result.
>
> The sensor framework API does a callback to a function defined by me,
> every time new data is available.
>
> The problem is, that sometimes, the calculations may take longer than
> others, but if the callback is called before the first calculation is
> done, it seems like it's queuing up all the callbacks, and execute them
> sequentially, afterwards.
>
> What I need, is to simply ignore the callback, if the previous call
> hasn't finished it's operations before it's called again.
>
> I thought that this code would do the trick, but it obviously doesn't
> help at all, and i can't understand why...
>
>      def doCallback(self):
>          if self.process_busy==False:
>              self.process_busy=True
>              self.data_callback()
>              self.process_busy=False
>
see if there is an "after" method somewhere.

What you have to do is to "break the link" between the callback
and the processing.  Your code above is all in the callback "thread", despite 
the fact that you call another function to do the processing.

So if you replace the data_callback() with an after call, it should work as 
you expect.

HTH - Hendrik



From max at alcyone.com  Mon Aug 24 04:41:14 2009
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 01:41:14 -0700
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal
	notation
In-Reply-To: 
References: 		<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:
> I also tried to include an example of a literal with a base of a Googol but I 
> ran out of both ink and symbols.
> :-)

... or particles in the observable Universe, for that matter.

-- 
Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
  San Jose, CA, USA && 37 18 N 121 57 W && AIM/Y!M/Skype erikmaxfrancis
   Do not seek death. Death will find you.
    -- Dag Hammarskjold


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Mon Aug 24 04:41:58 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:41:58 +0200
Subject: basic thread question
References: <20090818201015.GP20434@dragontoe.org>
	
	<4a922086$0$1619$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Dennis Lee Bieber  (DLB) wrote:

>DLB> On Sun, 23 Aug 2009 22:14:17 -0700, John Nagle 
>DLB> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:

>>> Multiple Python processes can run concurrently, but each process
>>> has a copy of the entire Python system, so the memory and cache footprints are
>>> far larger than for multiple threads.
>>> 
>DLB> 	One would think a smart enough OS would be able to share the
>DLB> executable (interpreter) code, and only create a new stack/heap
>DLB> allocation for data.

Of course they do, but a significant portion of a Python system consists
of imported modules and these are data as far as the OS is concerned.
Only the modules written in C which are loaded as DLL's (shared libs)
and of course the interpreter executable will be shared.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Mon Aug 24 04:44:21 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:44:21 +0200
Subject: Items inheriting attributes from its container?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4a9252e5$0$17143$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Kreso a ?crit :
> I would like to create a list-like container class so that, additionally
> to usual list methods, I could attach attributes to the container instances.
> However, I would like it so that the items contained in the particular
> instance of container somehow 'inherit' those attributes i.e.
> 
> cont = Container()
> cont.color = 'blue'
> cont.append(item)
> print item.color
> 'blue'
> 

This is named "environmental aquisition" (or simply "aquisition") and is 
one of the base mechanisms in Zope 2. While an interesting idea, from 
experience, it can rapidly turn into a total maintainance nightmare if 
not used with care :-/



From james.harris.1 at googlemail.com  Mon Aug 24 04:47:44 2009
From: james.harris.1 at googlemail.com (James Harris)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 01:47:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
References:  
	
	 
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com> 
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
	
	
	 
	 
	<_oidnbiiYrgJ0g_XnZ2dnUVZ_uVi4p2d@giganews.com>
Message-ID: 

On 24 Aug, 09:30, Erik Max Francis  wrote:
> James Harris wrote:
> > On 24 Aug, 09:05, Erik Max Francis  wrote:
> >>>> Here's another suggested number literal format. First, keep the
> >>>> familar 0x and 0b of C and others and to add 0t for octal. (T is the
> >>>> third letter of octal as X is the third letter of hex.) The numbers
> >>>> above would be
> >>>> ? 0b1011, 0t7621, 0xc26b
> >>>> Second, allow an arbitrary number base by putting base and number in
> >>>> quotes after a zero as in
> >>>> ? 0"2:1011", 0"8:7621", 0"16:c26b"
> >>> Why not just put the base first, followed by the value in quotes:
> >>> ? ? 2"1011", 8"7621", 16"c26b"
> >> It's always a bit impressive how syntax suggestions get more and more
> >> involved and, if you'll forgive me for saying, ridiculous as the
> >> conversation continues. ?This is starting to get truly nutty.
>
> > Why do you say that here? MRAB's suggestion is one of the clearest
> > there has been. And it incorporates the other requirements: starts
> > with a digit, allows an appropriate alphabet, has no issues with
> > spacing digit groups, shows clearly where the number ends and could
> > take an exponent suffix.
>
> In your opinion. ?Obviously not in others. ?Which is pretty obviously
> what I meant, so the rhetorical question is a bit weird here.

Don't get defensive.... Yes, in my opinion, if you like, but you can't
say "obviously not in others" as no one else but you has commented on
MRAB's suggestion.

Also, when you say "This is starting to get truly nutty" would you
accept that that's in your opinion?

> There's a reason that languages designed by committee end up horrific
> nightmares.

True but I would suggest that mistakes are also made by designers who
do not seek the opinions of others. There's a balance to be struck
between a committee and an ivory tower.

James


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Mon Aug 24 04:54:31 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:54:31 +0200
Subject: Newbie: list comprehension troubles..
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4a925547$0$22644$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

mm a ?crit :
> Hi, I'm trying to replace this...
> 
>         # this works but there must be a more pythonic way, right?
>         tlist = []
>         for obj in self.objs:
>             t = obj.intersect(ray)
>             if (t != None):

hint 1 : this is Python, you don't need parens around conditionals.
hint 2 : None is a singleton, so the usual idiom is to test for identity 
('is') instead of equality ('==')

IOW, make this line:

               if t is not None:

>                 tlist.append((obj,t))
> 
> with a list comprehension- can it be done?

See other answers here. As far as I'm concerned, while being a great fan 
of list comps etc, I'd stick with the plain old for loop here - much 
more readable if nothing else.



From davea at ieee.org  Mon Aug 24 05:04:19 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 05:04:19 -0400
Subject: sgmllib.py
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A925793.9030305@ieee.org>

elsa wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm new to both this forum and Python, and I've got a bit stuck trying
> to learn how to parse HTML.... here is my problem
>
> I'm using a textbook that uses sgmllib.py for all its examples. I'm
> aware that sgmllib is not in the current release, however I want to
> get it to work, as I have python 2.5, and the text book uses it.
>
> So, the first example says to type something like (to test the
> sgmllib):
>
> python sgmllib.py "path/to/my/file.html"  .... example (1)
>
> this doesn't work for me. I think I have figured out the problem  -
> the error says
>
> "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/Resources/
> Python.app/Contents/MacOS/Python: can't open file 'sgmllib.py': [Errno
> 2] No such file or directory"
>
> the problem is that this path is wrong. My sgmllib.py is in:
>
> "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/
> python2.5/sgmllib.py"
>
> if I substitute this path for sgmllib.py in example (1), everything
> works fine. However, I don't want to do all that typing everytime I
> want to use sgmllib.py. So, I thought maybe the problem was with
> PYTHONPATH. I executed the following command:
>
> export PYTHONPATH=/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/
> 2.5/li/python2.5:$PYTHONPATH
>
> this seemed to work - no errors raised. However, when I retyped
> example (1), I got the same original error.
>
> Any assistance would be much appreciated. I'm working on max os x
> leopard.
>
> Thanks,
>
> elsa
>
>   
The path in the error message simply refers to the full path string to 
your Python interpreter, and reflects %0 in your shell.  So I'd assume 
you've got a script called 'python' on your path, which spells out the 
full path name.

That has nothing to do with your problem.  Your problem, as you 
correctly surmised, is that Python's search path doesn't include the 
directory containing sgmllib.py

Unfortunately, I haven't used Unix for over 15 years, so I don't recall the specifics of the shell 'export' operation.  But you should be able to check the workings by inspecting the PYTHONPATH variable after trying to change it.

There are a number of places that Python looks for a .py file.  My choice, for a standard library like this that you don't plan to modify, would be to put it in the site-packages directory.  You can see exactly where that is by doing the following in a simple script, and examining the output.

import sys
print sys.path





From deets at nospam.web.de  Mon Aug 24 05:06:00 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 11:06:00 +0200
Subject: Python and JMS
References: <679a2898-abf1-4938-a456-59e0bf5ba666@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7ff3foF2kcl0rU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

osky wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I would like to make a JMS client connection from Python to Progress
> Sonic ESB (JMS message provider similar to WebSphere MQ or Active
> MQ).
> 
> What would be the best way to implement that within Python 2.6 ?
> Any ideas ?

I just recently learned about JCC - a Java-wrapper-compiler for python that
is used by pylucene to embed (!) the JVM into python.

This might be one viable option. I don't know much more, though.

Diez


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Aug 24 05:16:38 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 11:16:38 +0200
Subject: sgmllib.py
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <4a925a76$0$32668$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>

Dave Angel schrieb:
> elsa wrote:
>> python sgmllib.py "path/to/my/file.html"  .... example (1)
>
> The path in the error message simply refers to the full path string to
> your Python interpreter, and reflects %0 in your shell.  So I'd assume
> you've got a script called 'python' on your path, which spells out the
> full path name.

No, the problem is that "sgmllib.py" simply isn't in the directory where
the Python interpreter is run. When you say

	python sgmllib.py

you are instructing the Python interpreter to run the script "sgmllib.py"
*in the current directory*. According to the original post, that's clearly
not the intention of the OP.

Stefan


From davea at ieee.org  Mon Aug 24 05:23:24 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 05:23:24 -0400
Subject: basic thread question
In-Reply-To: 
References: <20090818201015.GP20434@dragontoe.org>		<4a922086$0$1619$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	
Message-ID: <4A925C0C.4090906@ieee.org>

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Aug 2009 22:14:17 -0700, John Nagle 
> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>
>   
>>      Multiple Python processes can run concurrently, but each process
>> has a copy of the entire Python system, so the memory and cache footprints are
>> far larger than for multiple threads.
>>
>>     
> 	One would think a smart enough OS would be able to share the
> executable (interpreter) code, and only create a new stack/heap
> allocation for data.
>   
That's what fork is all about.  (See os.fork(), available on most 
Unix/Linux)  The two processes start out sharing their state, and only 
the things subsequently written need separate swap space.

In Windows (and probably Unix/Linux), the swapspace taken by the 
executable and DLLs(shared libraries) is minimal.  Each DLL may have a 
"preferred location" and if that part of the address space is available, 
it takes no swapspace at all, except for static variables, which are 
usually allocated together.  I don't know whether the standard build of 
CPython (python.exe and the pyo libraries) uses such a linker option, 
but I'd bet they do.  It also speeds startup time.

On my system, a minimal python program uses about 50k of swapspace.  But 
I'm sure that goes way up with lots of imports.


DaveA


From davea at ieee.org  Mon Aug 24 05:29:43 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 05:29:43 -0400
Subject: elementtree
In-Reply-To: <4a923d8b$0$32664$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
References: <3037e686-d552-4373-a822-75a43b274cca@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<4a923d8b$0$32664$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <4A925D87.5010905@ieee.org>

Stefan Behnel wrote:
> Hi,
>
> elsa wrote:
>   
>> I know how to turn HTML into an ElementTree object
>>     
>
> I don't. ;)
>
> ElementTree doesn't have an HTML parser, so what do you use for parsing?
>
>
>   
>> but I don't know
>> how to then view the structure of this object. Is there a method or
>> module that you can give an ElementTree object to, and it returns some
>> kind of graphical or printed representation of the tree? Otherwise, if
>> you can't see you're tree's structure, how do you know what is a
>> sensible way of iterating over the tree to access the info you need?
>>     
>
> ElementTree has a tostring() method that returns a string. To get a pretty
> printed representation, you can use the indent() function from this recipe:
>
> http://effbot.org/zone/element-lib.htm#prettyprint
>
> Stefan
>
>   
Perhaps the OP was referring to XHTML, which should be eligible for 
ElementTree.  But could you tell me whether ElementTree is at all 
tolerant of malformed XML?   Most HTML and XHTML I encounter in the wild 
is so  buggy it's amazing it all works at all.

 
DaveA


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Aug 24 05:54:39 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 11:54:39 +0200
Subject: elementtree
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3037e686-d552-4373-a822-75a43b274cca@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<4a923d8b$0$32664$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
	
Message-ID: <4a92635f$0$32678$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>

Dave Angel wrote:
> Stefan Behnel wrote:
>> elsa wrote:
>>> I know how to turn HTML into an ElementTree object
>>
>> I don't. ;)
>>
>> ElementTree doesn't have an HTML parser, so what do you use for parsing?
>>   
> Perhaps the OP was referring to XHTML, which should be eligible for
> ElementTree.  But could you tell me whether ElementTree is at all
> tolerant of malformed XML?   Most HTML and XHTML I encounter in the wild
> is so  buggy it's amazing it all works at all.

Well, if the XHTML is "buggy", it's not XHTML at all. XHTML is XML, which
is defined as being well-formed. Any XHTML parser is required to reject
malformed input, and the expat parser that ElementTree uses is (luckily) no
exception.

Regarding malformed HTML: that's not directly supported by ElementTree,
hence my question. You can use ElementSoup to interface with BeautifulSoup,
or elementtidy to interface with tidy, or html5lib with ElementTree as
backend, or you can use lxml instead, which handles malformed HTML (and is
all fast and shiny and ... ;).

Stefan


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Aug 24 06:12:19 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 12:12:19 +0200
Subject: Python and JMS
In-Reply-To: <679a2898-abf1-4938-a456-59e0bf5ba666@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <679a2898-abf1-4938-a456-59e0bf5ba666@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a926783$0$32673$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>

osky wrote:
> I would like to make a JMS client connection from Python to Progress
> Sonic ESB (JMS message provider similar to WebSphere MQ or Active
> MQ).

Never needed this, but Google gives me this as first hit

http://hjb.python-hosting.com/

and this c.l.py thread reference a little further down:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2006-July/567400.html

Stefan


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 06:56:08 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 03:56:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Literal concatenation, strings vs. numbers (was: Numeric literals 
	in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal notation)
References:  
	
	 
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com> 
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	 <87ljlahbn9.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	 
	<7fe9mbF2l83bmU1@mid.individual.net>
	<871vn2gcai.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <3353e3ec-384a-4786-bd33-b26ab26df129@l5g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 23, 7:45?pm, Ben Finney  wrote:
> greg  writes:
> > J. Cliff Dyer wrote:
>
> > > What happens if you use a literal like 0x10f 304?
>
> > To me the obvious thing to do is concatenate them textually and then
> > treat the whole thing as a single numeric literal. Anything else
> > wouldn't be sane, IMO.
>
> Yet, as was pointed out, that behaviour would be inconsistent with the
> concatenation of string literals::
>
> ? ? >>> "abc" r'def' u"ghi" 'jkl'
> ? ? u'abcdefghijkl'

Well my take on it is that this would not be the same as string
concatenation, the series of digits would be parsed as a single token
with spaces automatically removed.  That does make a difference to the
users (it's not just under the covers).

For instance, string concatenation works across lines:

"abc"
"def"

but if the numbers were parsed as a single token it wouldn't
necessarily be allowed, and would be unwise, so this is out:

100
200

You might want to also enforce rules such as only a single space can
separate digits, no tabs, not multiple spaces, so this

100  200

would also be right out.  You might even want to enforce that spaces
be at regular intervals.  I don't think it would matter too much that
digit separation can superficially resemble string concatenation if
you don't break the strings across lines, it's not too difficult to
explain what the difference is, and there's really not much chance
anyone would be confused by their meanings.

Having said all that, I would favor _ as a digit separator in Python
any day of the week, and I don't think it's all that important to have
one at all.

HOWEVER, I once proposed that if I were designing a new language I'd
consider allowing spaces in identifiers.  (That didn't stop people
from arguing why it would be confusing in Python, but never mind
that.)  If spaces were allowed in identifiers, then I'd be also in
favor of spaces in numeric literals.


> So, different representations of literals are parsed as separate
> literals, then concatenated. To have the behaviour you describe, the
> case needs to be made separately that digit concatenation should not be
> consistent with the established string literal parsing behaviour.

Well, one doesn't really *need* to make that case, they just might not
care about consistency.

But if they did I think Erik's case is a good one: very little chance
of confusion because there's really only one reasonable
interpretation.  The point of consistency is to help understand things
by analogy, but if analogy doesn't help understanding--and it wouldn't
in this case--there's no point.


Carl Banks


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 07:00:46 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 04:00:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: elementtree
References: <3037e686-d552-4373-a822-75a43b274cca@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<4a923d8b$0$32664$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <446e340c-82cc-4533-ae64-53d45ce765a2@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 24, 12:13?am, Stefan Behnel  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> elsa wrote:
> > I know how to turn HTML into an ElementTree object
>
> I don't. ;)
>
> ElementTree doesn't have an HTML parser, so what do you use for parsing?

The OP could be feeding the HTML through tidy, or it could be XHTML.


> > but I don't know
> > how to then view the structure of this object. Is there a method or
> > module that you can give an ElementTree object to, and it returns some
> > kind of graphical or printed representation of the tree? Otherwise, if
> > you can't see you're tree's structure, how do you know what is a
> > sensible way of iterating over the tree to access the info you need?
>
> ElementTree has a tostring() method that returns a string. To get a pretty
> printed representation, you can use the indent() function from this recipe:
>
> http://effbot.org/zone/element-lib.htm#prettyprint

Another possibility is to write out the ElementTree object as XML with
an .xml extension, and view it in a modern web browser (Firefox, IE,
others maybe) that can show XML structure.


Carl Banks


From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Mon Aug 24 07:06:30 2009
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 12:06:30 +0100
Subject: can python make web applications?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Deep_Feelings wrote:
> can python make powerfull database web applications that can replace
> desktop database applications? e.g: entrprise accounting
> programs,enterprise human resource management programs ...etc
As the other replies already mentioned that these already exists, I 
would like to add that with Pyjamas you can write 'webgui' programs 
relatively easily:
http://pyjs.org/

-- 
MPH
http://blog.dcuktec.com
'If consumed, best digested with added seasoning to own preference.'


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Mon Aug 24 07:21:03 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 13:21:03 +0200
Subject: basic thread question
References: <20090818201015.GP20434@dragontoe.org>
	
	<4a922086$0$1619$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	
	
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Dave Angel  (DA) wrote:

>DA> Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
>>> On Sun, 23 Aug 2009 22:14:17 -0700, John Nagle 
>>> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Multiple Python processes can run concurrently, but each process
>>>> has a copy of the entire Python system, so the memory and cache footprints are
>>>> far larger than for multiple threads.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> One would think a smart enough OS would be able to share the
>>> executable (interpreter) code, and only create a new stack/heap
>>> allocation for data.
>>> 
>DA> That's what fork is all about.  (See os.fork(), available on most
>DA> Unix/Linux)  The two processes start out sharing their state, and only the
>DA> things subsequently written need separate swap space.

But os.fork() is not available on Windows. And I guess refcounts et al.
will soon destroy the sharing.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Mon Aug 24 07:33:07 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 13:33:07 +0200
Subject: your favorite debugging tool?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A927A73.5080207@sequans.com>

Esmail wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> What is your favorite tool to help you debug your
> code? I've been getting along with 'print' statements
> but that is getting old and somewhat cumbersome.
>
> I'm primarily interested in utilities for Linux (but
> if you have recommendations for Windows, I'll take
> them too :)
>
> I use emacs as my primary development environment, FWIW.
> Someone mentioned winpdb .. anyone have experience/comments
> on this? Others?
>
> Thanks,
> Esmail
>
I execute the program within IPython.
 >>> run test.py

I usually write a CTRL+C except clause that will spawn an Ipython shell 
so I can inspect the namespace at that time.
I'm also using the ipdb to spawn the debugger.

import IPython
ipdb = IPython.Debugger.Pdb(color_scheme='Linux')
ipdb.set_trace()

it spawns the IPython debugger, allowing step by step execution, code 
inspection, changing the namespace. You get all the IPython benefits 
(espacially the TAB completion, history ...)

I used to proceed with print statements, but they are some situations 
where it won't just make it. Sometimes the code is so complex you can't 
anticipate all the required prints to catch a bug.

JM


From bieffe62 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 07:42:29 2009
From: bieffe62 at gmail.com (Francesco Bochicchio)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 04:42:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Newbie: list comprehension troubles..
References: 
Message-ID: <86e872ed-eb86-4def-ad55-49ee60f61cf0@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On 24 Ago, 01:27, mm  wrote:
> Hi, I'm trying to replace this...
>
> ? ? ? ? # this works but there must be a more pythonic way, right?
> ? ? ? ? tlist = []
> ? ? ? ? for obj in self.objs:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? t = obj.intersect(ray)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? if (t != None):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? tlist.append((obj,t))
>
> with a list comprehension- can it be done?
>
> What I need to do is iterate over a list of graphics primitives and
> call their intersect method. If the returned t value is not None then
> I want to store the obj refernence and its t value in a list of tuples
> for further processing. I've tried stuff like ...
>
> ? ? ? ? tlist = [(obj,t) for obj,t in (self.objs, obj.intersect(ray))
> if (t != None)]
> ? ? ? ? tlist = [(obj,t) for obj in self.objs for t in obj.intersect
> (ray) ]
> ? ? ? ? print ">>> ",len(tlist), tlist
>
> but they don't work. Any help greatly appreciated. matt

What about this:

def intersections(objlist, ray):
     for obj in objlist: yield obj, obj.intersect(ray)
tlist = [(obj, t) in intersections(self.objs, ray) if t != None ]

It is still quite readable but a bit more compact. More efficient?
Maybe.

Ciao
----
FB




From nospam at nospam.com  Mon Aug 24 08:08:40 2009
From: nospam at nospam.com (Gilles Ganault)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:08:40 +0200
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
Message-ID: 

Hello

	I was wondering if some people in this ng use Python and some GUI
toolkit (PyWin32, wxWidgets, QT, etc.) to build professional
applications, and if yes, what it's like, the pros and cons, etc.

I'm especially concerned about the lack of controls, the lack of
updates (lots of controls in wxWidgets are 1.0 deadware), and problems
linked to how to update users' PC remotely when I build a new version
using eg. Py2exe.

I need controls for business apps like access to databases, good data
grid, printing reports (with or without barcodes), etc.

Thank you.


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Mon Aug 24 08:08:47 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:08:47 +0200
Subject: Is Python what I need?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <224ed882-b78e-4b75-afa8-35c907096469@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4A9282CF.3000204@sequans.com>

Peter Otten wrote:
> newbie wrote:
>
>   
>> I'm interested in developing computer based, interactive programs for
>> students in a special school who have an aversion to pen and paper.
>> I've searched the net to find ready made software that will meet my
>> needs but it is either written to a level much higher than these
>> students can cope with or priced beyond our school budget. I came
>> across a blog of someone singing the praises of Python. My question is
>> therefore aimed at those that know what they are talking about (ie
>> users in this group). Is Python the language I need to learn to
>> develop these programs?
>>     
>
> >From the distance it looks like these children need a good teacher rather 
> than a bad (or just starting) programmer. 
Wow, that is rude. Let's keep this list friendly, won't we ?

JM


From nevillednz at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 08:22:42 2009
From: nevillednz at gmail.com (NevilleDNZ)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 05:22:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
References:  
	
	 
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com> 
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 23, 9:42 pm, James Harris 
wrote:
> The numbers above would be
>
>   0b1011, 0t7621, 0xc26b

Algol68 has the type BITS, that is converted to INT with the ABS
operator.
The numbers above would be:
>   2r1011, 8r7621, 16rc26b

"r" is for radix: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radix

The standard supports 2r, 4r, 8r & 16r only.

The standard supports LONG BITS, LONG LONG BITS etc, but does not
include UNSIGNED.

Compare gcc's:

bash$ cat num_lit.c
#include 
main(){
  printf("%d %d %d %d\n",0xffff,07777,9999,0b1111);
}

bash$ ./num_lit
65535 4095 9999 15


With Algol68's: https://sourceforge.net/projects/algol68/

bash$ cat num_lit.a68
main:(
  printf(($g$,ABS 16rffff,ABS 8r7777,9999,ABS 2r1111,$l$))
)

bash$ algol68g ./num_lit.a68
     +65535      +4095      +9999        +15

Enjoy
N


From dmw at coder.cl  Mon Aug 24 08:29:48 2009
From: dmw at coder.cl (Daniel Molina Wegener)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:29:48 -0400
Subject: [ANN] pyxser-1.2r --- Python-Object to XML serialization module
References: <2571343.k9db9GJWqV@coder.cl>
	<4a923e50$0$32664$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <2665032.o6QR52tnKS@coder.cl>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Stefan Behnel 
on Monday 24 August 2009 03:16
wrote in comp.lang.python:


> Daniel Molina Wegener wrote:
>>         * Added encoded serialization of Unicode strings by using
>>         the user defined encoding as is passed to the serialization
>>         functions as enc parameter
>> 
>> As you see, now Unicode strings are serialized as encoded byte string
>> by using the encoding that the user pass as enc parameter to the
>> serialization function. This means that Unicode strings are serialized
>> in a human readable form, regarding a better interoperability with
>> other platforms.
> 
> You mean, the whole XML document is serialised with that encoding, right?

Well, if you call pyxser with:

xmldocstr = pyxser.serialize(obj = someobj, enc = "utf-8", depth = 3)

pyxser will serialize someobj into XML document (xmldocstr) using the
utf-8 encoding with a depth of three levels in the object tree. If the
object tree has unicode objects, those objects will be encoded into
utf-8 too. And yes, it means that unicode objects are encoded into the
encoding that the XML document encoding has, and as you say, the whole
XML document has one encoding. There is no mixing of byte encoded strings
with different encodings in the outout document.

When the object is restored, by using pyxser.unserialize:

pyobj = pyxser.unserialize(obj = xmldocstr, enc = "utf-8")

Unicode objects are restored as unicode objects, by decoding the utf-8
strings on the document. Byte string objects are restored as byte string
objects. And the other types of objects are restored as their original
type.

Another issue is the fact that if you have mixed some encodings in byte
strings objects in your object tree, such as iso-8859-1 and utf-8, and
you try to serialize that object, pyxser will output to stdout the 
serialization errors by trying to handle those mixed encodings which are
not regarding the document encoding.

There are some restrictions, if the class of the object is declared on
the __main__ module, pyxser can not handle it... This is a bug but I'm
expecting to solve it in near future.

A depth level of zero (depth = 0) will serialize the complete object
tree with a fixed limit of 50 levels, pyxser can handle cross referenced
objects and circular references.

Sorry if don't answer more questions until we reach the night --- here
in Chile --- the night, I must go to my job right now, and there I don't
have access to usenet or google groups.

> 
> Stefan

Best regards,
- -- 
 .O. | Daniel Molina Wegener   | FreeBSD & Linux
 ..O | dmw [at] coder [dot] cl | Open Standards
 OOO | http://coder.cl/        | FOSS Developer
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From ryniek90 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 08:44:59 2009
From: ryniek90 at gmail.com (Ryniek90)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:44:59 +0200
Subject: Temat:,Re: IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename: in
	windows xp while making tarfile
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A928B4B.9030502@gmail.com>


>> John Machin wrote:
>>     
>>> Erik Max Francis  alcyone.com> writes:
>>>       
>   
>   
>> I also suspect the "pipe" symbol. I don't know if it's an invalid 
>> character to Windows, but it's certainly a bad idea.  The '|' character 
>> means something special to the shell.
>>     
>
> The "pipe" character is not a valid character in a Windows file.
> Despite the OP's message wrapping the filename in "pipes",
> there are no pipes in the filename in the traceback to
> which he posted a link.  Wrapping the filename in "pipes"
> and the cryptic reference to "the '|\U' literal fault"
> appear to be side-issue bogglements.
>
>  >>> open('boggle|txt', 'wb')
>  Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "", line 1, in 
>  IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename: 'boggle|txt'
>  >>> open('|boggle.txt|', 'wb')
>  Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "", line 1, in 
>  IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename: '|boggle.txt|'
>
>
>
>   

Sorry, but i don't know where those pipes came from  : P

The proper path is "C:\\Users\\Ryniek's 
WinSe7en\\MyNewGGBackup(2009-08-23 14:59:02).tar.bz2"
and that string literal is "\U", without any pipes  :)

The truth is that script works on linux (ubuntu) but not on windows 
(neither Win7 nor WinXP).
Maybe it's good idea to use raw string for specifing those paths?

As i mentioned later, some python users had the same problem with this 
IOError ( like here: http://www.daniweb.com/forums/thread174552.html  or 
here: 
http://groups.google.com/group/sympy/browse_thread/thread/c42aca3eb532928c 
).




From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Aug 24 09:00:06 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:00:06 +0200
Subject: [ANN] pyxser-1.2r --- Python-Object to XML serialization module
In-Reply-To: <2665032.o6QR52tnKS@coder.cl>
References: <2571343.k9db9GJWqV@coder.cl>
	<4a923e50$0$32664$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
	<2665032.o6QR52tnKS@coder.cl>
Message-ID: <4a928ed7$0$32666$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>

Daniel Molina Wegener wrote:
> unicode objects are encoded into the
> encoding that the XML document encoding has, and as you say, the whole
> XML document has one encoding. There is no mixing of byte encoded strings
> with different encodings in the outout document.

Ok, that's what I hoped anyway. It just wasn't clear from your description.


> When the object is restored, by using pyxser.unserialize:
> 
> pyobj = pyxser.unserialize(obj = xmldocstr, enc = "utf-8")

But this is XML, right? What do you need to pass the encoding for at this
point?


> Another issue is the fact that if you have mixed some encodings in byte
> strings objects in your object tree, such as iso-8859-1 and utf-8, and
> you try to serialize that object, pyxser will output to stdout the 
> serialization errors by trying to handle those mixed encodings which are
> not regarding the document encoding.

There shouldn't be any serialisation errors (unless you try to recode byte
strings on the way out, which is a no-no for arbitrary user input). All you
have to do is properly escape the byte string so that it passes the XML
encoding step.

One trick to do that is to decode the byte string as ISO-8859-1 and
serialise the result as a normal Unicode string. Then you can re-encode the
unicode string on input back to ISO-8859-1.

I choose ISO-8859-1 here because it has the well-defined side-effect of
mapping byte values directly to Unicode characters with an identical code
point value. So you do not risk any failures or data loss.

Stefan


From mwilson at the-wire.com  Mon Aug 24 09:05:24 2009
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:05:24 -0400
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal
	notation
References: 
	
	
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
	
	
	<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

James Harris wrote:

> On 24 Aug, 02:19, Max Erickson  wrote:
[ ... ]
>> >>> int('100', 3)
>> 9
>> >>> int('100', 36)
>> 1296
> 
> This is fine typed into the language directly but couldn't be entered
> by the user or read-in from or written to a file.

That's rather beside the point.  Literals don't essentially come from files 
or user input.  Essentially literals are a subset of expressions, just like 
function calls are, and they have to be evaluated by Python to yield a 
value.  I'm not averse to 32'rst', but we already have

Python 2.6.2 (release26-maint, Apr 19 2009, 01:56:41) 
[GCC 4.3.3] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> int ('rst', 32)
28573

	Mel.

> 
> James




From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Mon Aug 24 09:07:58 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:07:58 +0200
Subject: conditional for-statement
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4a9290ad$0$406$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

seb a ?crit :
> Hi,
> 
> i was wondering if there is a syntax alike:
> 
> for i in range(10) if i > 5:
>     print i
> 
> equivalent to
> 
> for i in (for i in range(10) if i>5):
>     print i

what about :

for i in range(6, 10):
     print i




More seriously:

for i in range(10):
     if i > 5:
         print i


From jjalocha at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 09:13:40 2009
From: jjalocha at gmail.com (Jerzy Jalocha N)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:13:40 -0400
Subject: P3 weird sys.stdout.write()
Message-ID: <9b72f9a90908240613i513597bbk83a30946ab0b04ae@mail.gmail.com>

I've stumbled upon the following in Python 3:

Python 3.0.1+ (r301:69556, Apr 15 2009, 15:59:22)
[GCC 4.3.3] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import sys
>>> sys.stdout.write("")
0
>>> sys.stdout.write("something")
something9
>>>

write() is appending the length of the string to it's output. That's
not how it worked in 2.6.

What's the reason for this? Is this intended? I couldn't find a bug
report for this.


From deets at nospam.web.de  Mon Aug 24 09:21:31 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:21:31 +0200
Subject: P3 weird sys.stdout.write()
References: 
Message-ID: <7ffierF2ken49U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Jerzy Jalocha N wrote:

> I've stumbled upon the following in Python 3:
> 
> Python 3.0.1+ (r301:69556, Apr 15 2009, 15:59:22)
> [GCC 4.3.3] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> import sys
>>>> sys.stdout.write("")
> 0
>>>> sys.stdout.write("something")
> something9
>>>>
> 
> write() is appending the length of the string to it's output. That's
> not how it worked in 2.6.
> 
> What's the reason for this? Is this intended? I couldn't find a bug
> report for this.

Write returns the number of bytes written. And because you don't capture
that output into a variable, the interpreter puts it out as well.

If you do 

>>> n = sys.stdout.write("")

instead, you won't see the behavior.

Diez


From andre.roberge at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 09:22:36 2009
From: andre.roberge at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9?=)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 06:22:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: P3 weird sys.stdout.write()
References: 
Message-ID: <9ad77db9-08a7-474d-b6a3-588e82cd8b85@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 24, 10:13?am, Jerzy Jalocha N  wrote:
> I've stumbled upon the following in Python 3:
>
> Python 3.0.1+ (r301:69556, Apr 15 2009, 15:59:22)
> [GCC 4.3.3] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>
> >>> import sys
> >>> sys.stdout.write("")
> 0
> >>> sys.stdout.write("something")
> something9
>
> write() is appending the length of the string to it's output.


Not quite right, see below.

> That's
> not how it worked in 2.6.
>
> What's the reason for this? Is this intended? I couldn't find a bug
> report for this.

I don't know what the reason for the change, but try the following:

>>> out = sys.stdout.write("test\n")
test
>>> out
5


What you are seeing is the concatenation of the return value of the
write() method with its output.

Andr?


From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Aug 24 09:32:48 2009
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:32:48 +0200
Subject: Is Python what I need?
References: <224ed882-b78e-4b75-afa8-35c907096469@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:

>> >From the distance it looks like these children need a good teacher
>> >rather than a bad (or just starting) programmer.

> Wow, that is rude. Let's keep this list friendly, won't we ?

I may have been too blunt, and if my message has come across as an insult I 
apologize for that. Let me try again:

If you are trying to teach children that are unwilling to use pen and paper 
putting them in front of a computer doesn't help you and them one bit. As a 
starting programmer you'll have to spend a lot of time in front of your 
computer that may be better spent with your students.

Better?

Peter



From code at pizzashack.org  Mon Aug 24 09:42:31 2009
From: code at pizzashack.org (Derek Martin)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:42:31 -0500
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: <02a0ce27$0$30337$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 
	<0018e1a0$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<02a0ce27$0$30337$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <20090824134231.GZ20434@dragontoe.org>

On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 06:13:31AM +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 22:19:01 -0500, Derek Martin wrote:
> > On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 02:55:51AM +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> >> And the great thing is that now you get to teach yourself to stop
> >> writing octal numbers implicitly and be write them explicitly with a
> >> leading 0o instead :)
> > 
> > Sorry, I don't write them implicitly.  A leading zero explicitly states
> > that the numeric constant that follows is octal.
> 
> That is incorrect.

No, it simply isn't.  It is a stated specification in most popular
programming languages that an integer preceded by a leading zero is an
octal number.  That makes it explicit, when used by a programmer to
write an octal literal.  By definition.  End of discussion.

> (Explicitness isn't a binary state

Of course it is.  Something can be either stated or implied... there
are no shades in between.  Perhaps you mean "obvious and intutitive"
where you are using the word "explicit" above (and that would be a
matter of subjective opinion).  The leading zero, however, is
undoubtedly explicit.  It is an explicitly written token which, in
that context, has the meaning that the digits that follow are an octal
number.  One simply needs to be aware of that aspect of the
specification of the programming language, and one will clearly know
that it is octal.

My point in mentioning that many other programming languages, by the
way, was NOT to suggest that, "See, look here, all these other folks
do it that way too, so it must be right."  It was to refute the notion that 
the leading zero as octal was in some way unusual.  It is, in fact,
ubiquitous in computing, taught roughly in the first week of any
beginning computing course using nearly any modern popular programming
language, and discussed within the first full page of text in the
section on numerical literals in _Learning Python_ (and undoubtedly
many other books on Python).  It may be a surprise the first time you
run into it, but you typically won't forget that detail after you run
into it the first time.

> However, octal numbers are defined implicitly: 012 is a legal base 10 
> number, or base 3, or base 9, or base 16. 

Not in any programming language I use today, it's not.  In all of
those, 012 is an octal integer literal, per the language spec.

> There's nothing about a leading zero that says "base 8" apart from
> familiarity. 

That is simply untrue.  What says base 8 about a leading zero is the
formal specification of the programming language.  

The only way using octal could be implicit in the code is if you
wrote something like:

  x = 12 

in your code, and then had to pass a flag to your compiler or
interpreter to tell it that you meant to use octal integer literals
instead of decimal ones.  That, of course, would be insane.  But
specifying a leading zero to represent an octal number zero is very
much explicit, by definition.

> We can see the difference between leading 0x and leading 0 if you
> repeat it: repeating an explicit 0x, as in 0x0xFF, is a syntax
> error, while repeating an implicit 0 silently does nothing
> different:

No, we can't.  Just as you can type 0012, you can also type 0x0FF.
It's not different AT ALL.  In both cases, the marker designated by
the programming language as the base indicator can be followed by an
arbitrary number of zeros which do not impact the magnitude of the
integer so specified.  Identical behavior.  The key is simply to
understand that the first 0 is not a digit -- it's a syntactic marker,
an operator if you will (though Python may not technically think of it
that way).  The definition of '0' is overloaded, just as other
language tokens often are.  This, too, is hardly unusual.

> There are a bunch of languages, pretty much all heavily influenced
> by C, which treat integer literals with leading 0s as oct: C++,
> Javascript, Python 2.x, Ruby, Perl, Java. As so often is the case,
> C's design mistakes become common practice. Sigh.

That it is a design mistake is a matter of opinion.  Obviously the
people who designed it didn't think it was a mistake, and neither do
I.  If you search the web for this topic (I did), you will find no
shortage of people who think the recent movement to irradicate the
leading zero to be frustrating, annoying, and/or stupid.  And by
the way, this representation predates C.  It was at least present in
B.

> FORTRAN 90 uses a leading O (uppercase o) for octal

That clearly IS a design mistake, because O is virtually
indistinguishable from 0, especially considering varying fonts and
people's variable eye sight quality.

> Algol uses an explicit base: 8r12 to indicate octal 10.

This is far better than 0o01.  I maintain that 0o1 is only marginally
better than O01 (from your fortran example) or 0O1, allowed by Python.
The string 8r12 has the nicety that it can easily be used to represent
integers of any radix in a consistent fashion.  But I maintain that
the leading zero is just fine, and changing it after 20 years of
Python seems more than a little arbitrary and brain-damaged to me.

> > Computer languages are not write-only, excepting maybe Perl. ;-) Writing
> > 0o12 presents no hardship; but I assert, with at least some support from
> > others here, that *reading* it does.
> 
> No more so than 0x or 0b literals. If anything, 0o12 stands out as "not 
> twelve" far more than 012 does.

Obviously, I don't agree.

Moving on... I've wasted enough time arguing about this.

-- 
Derek D. Martin
http://www.pizzashack.org/
GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D

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From jjalocha at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 09:44:47 2009
From: jjalocha at gmail.com (Jerzy Jalocha N)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:44:47 -0400
Subject: P3 weird sys.stdout.write()
In-Reply-To: <9b72f9a90908240613i513597bbk83a30946ab0b04ae@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9b72f9a90908240613i513597bbk83a30946ab0b04ae@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9b72f9a90908240644i77caaa0avb3c305925be86092@mail.gmail.com>

>>> import sys
>>> n = sys.stdout.write('something')
something>>> n
9
>>>

Yes, that works as expected, now, similar to 2.6.
Thank you both, Diez and Andr?!

-Jerzy


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Mon Aug 24 09:46:02 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 06:46:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
	
	<1j4ww90.pvvxweehycu0N%nospam@see.signature>
	<5134d9f1-0e23-4e05-a817-bf0cc9e85d3e@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On 24 Aug, 10:24, n... at cam.ac.uk wrote:
> In article <5134d9f1-0e23-4e05-a817-bf0cc9e85... at w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>,
>
> sturlamolden ? wrote:
> >On 24 Aug, 02:26, nos... at see.signature (Richard Maine) wrote:
>
> >> You missed the word "OOP", which seemed like the whole point. Not that
> >> the particular word is used in the Fortran standard, but it isn't hard
> >> to guess that he means a derived type that uses some of the OOP
> >> features. Inheritance, polymorphism, and type-bound procedure (aka
> >> methods in some other languages) come to mind.
>
> >But C is not OOP. The ISO C bindings in Fortran are not ISO C++
> >bindings. This is for a reason: C++ does not have a standard ABI like
> >ISO C.
>
> Nor does C. ?Almost everything that most people believe about C is
> wrong, because C is not well-defined at any level, so there are
> many twisty little C languages, all different.
>
> Richard is perfectly correct that my point was OOP. ?C interoperability
> does not apply to any derived type with type-bound procedures, which
> include finalizers. ?Note that this ALSO forbids them from being
> passed as data, even if the other language never uses the OOP features
> of the type.


You also made this claim regarding Fortran's C interop with strings:


"No, I mean things like 'Kilroy was here'.  Currently, Fortran's C
interoperability supports only strings of length 1, and you have
to kludge them up as arrays.  That doesn't work very well, especially
for things like function results."


This obviosuly proves you wrong:


subroutine foobar(fstr)
    ! this is the Fortran function we want to call from C
    ! it takes a variable length string as argument and
    ! print its length
    character(*) :: fstr
    write (*,*) len(fstr)
end subroutine



subroutine wrap_foobar(cstr) bind(c, name='foobar')
    ! a wrapper for foobar which we expose to C
    use, intrinsic :: iso_c_binding

    interface
        function strlen(cstr) bind(c, name='strlen')
           use, intrinsic :: iso_c_binding
           integer(c_int) :: strlen
           type(c_ptr), value :: cstr
        end function strlen
    end interface

    type(c_ptr), value :: cstr
    character(2147483647), pointer :: p_fstr
    integer :: n

    n = strlen(cstr)
    call c_f_pointer(cstr, p_fstr)
    call foobar(p_fstr(1:n))

end subroutine


I am not saying you are wrong regarding OOP derives types, but I'm not
taking your word for it. However, I am not wasting my time on Fortran
2003 OOP now, as it lacks compiler support. So I'll leave your claim
uncontested.

By the way, I am more than happy using Python for OOP and Fortran 95
for speed. As for numerical computing, I'd rather see better support
for array and matrix types in Cython than OOP in Fortran.


Regards,
Sturla Molden



From paul.vandelst at noaa.gov  Mon Aug 24 09:46:49 2009
From: paul.vandelst at noaa.gov (Paul van Delst)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:46:49 -0400
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
In-Reply-To: <800c6f66-7074-451f-8c1b-47c93d07c5a4@s13g2000yql.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	
	
	<1j4ww90.pvvxweehycu0N%nospam@see.signature>
	<5134d9f1-0e23-4e05-a817-bf0cc9e85d3e@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1j4wx7d.18cr6dvw3j79yN%nospam@see.signature>
	<800c6f66-7074-451f-8c1b-47c93d07c5a4@s13g2000yql.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

sturlamolden wrote:
> On 24 Aug, 02:57, nos... at see.signature (Richard Maine) wrote:
> 
> Does anyone use OOP in Fortran anyway?

I do - currently for learning (and eventually training) purposes so I don't distribute any
of the code. But, the fact that...

> Fortran 2003 compilers are not ubiquitous.

...is a major sticking point towards a fully engaged f2003 programme (not program :o)

> Fortran compilers tend to support a
> subset for Fortran 2003, usually ISO C bindings but not OOP.

Yeah, I'm starting to find it a little bit tiresome that vendors now appear convinced that
implementing some of the more note-worthy features of f2008 is of greater importance that
wrapping up the f2003 implementations. But, it's their business for their customers so
c'est la vie I guess

If I ignore parameterised derived types then my f2003 platform/compiler of "choice", IBM
AIX xlf2003, works well for OOP stuff.

cheers,

paulv


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Mon Aug 24 09:55:16 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:55:16 +0200
Subject: Object Reference question
In-Reply-To: 
References: <2dcf41c3-6623-48d9-bb74-97f753088479@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<8763chldpd.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
Message-ID: <4a929bc3$0$22636$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

josef a ?crit :

(snip)
 > I think that something like a = MyClass0(name =
> 'a', ...) is a bit redundant. Are definitions treated the same way?
> How would one print or pass function names?

In Python, classes and functions are objects too. The class and def 
statements are mostly syntactic sugar that *both* instanciate the (resp) 
class of function objet *and* bind it in the local namespace. FWIW, 
while class and function objects do (usually) have a __name__ attribute 
(usually the one used in the class or def statement...), this doesn't 
mean they're still bound to this name, nor that they are not bound to 
any other name:

bruno at bruno:~$ python
Python 2.6.2 (release26-maint, Apr 19 2009, 01:56:41)
[GCC 4.3.3] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
pythonrc start
pythonrc done
 >>> def foo(): print "function foo ???"
...
 >>> foo

 >>> foo.__name__
'foo'
 >>> bar = foo
 >>> bar.__name__
'foo'
 >>> bar()
function foo ???
 >>> import sys
 >>> foo = lambda: sys.stdout.write("pick a boo !\n")
 >>> foo.__name__
''
 >>> foo()
pick a boo !
 >>> funcs = [foo, bar]
 >>> del foo
 >>> funcs[0]
 at 0x8563ed4>
 >>> funcs[0]()
pick a boo !
 >>> funcs[1]

 >>> funcs[1]()
function foo ???
 >>> funcs[1].__name__
'foo'
 >>> del bar
 >>> funcs[1]()
function foo ???
 >>> funcs[1].__name__ = "yadda"
 >>> funcs[1]()
function foo ???
 >>> funcs[1].__name__
'yadda'
 >>>

HTH


From code at pizzashack.org  Mon Aug 24 09:56:48 2009
From: code at pizzashack.org (Derek Martin)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:56:48 -0500
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: <87fxbifzb7.fsf@golux.woodcraft.me.uk>
References: 
	<0018e1a0$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<20090823031901.GX20434@dragontoe.org>
	
	<87fxbifzb7.fsf@golux.woodcraft.me.uk>
Message-ID: <20090824135648.GA20434@dragontoe.org>

On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 01:13:32PM +0000, Matthew Woodcraft wrote:
> Dennis Lee Bieber  writes:
> > 	About the only place one commonly sees leading zeros on decimal
> > numbers, in my experience, is zero-filled COBOL data decks (and since
> > classic COBOL stores in BCD anyway... binary (usage is
> > computational/comp-1) was a later add-on to the data specification model
> > as I recall...)
> 
> A more common case is dates.

I suppose this is true, but I can't remember the last time I
hard-coded a date in a program, or worked on someone else's code with
hard-coded dates.  I'm fairly certain I've never done it, and if I
had, I obviously would not have used leading zeros.  I think
hard-coding dates is more uncommon than using octal. ;-)  [It
unquestionably is, for me personally.]  I tend to also discount this
example, because when we write dates with leading zeros, usually it's
in some variation of the form 08/09/2009, which, containing slashes,
is a string, not a number, and can not be used as a date literal in
any language I know.  We do it for reasons of format, which again
implies that it has more the characteristics of a string than of a
number.  To use such a thing in any programming language I can think
of would require translation from a string.

> I've seen people trip over this writing things like
> 
> xxx = [
>     date(2009, 10, 12),
>     date(2009, 12, 26),
>     date(2010, 02, 09),
> ]

I've never seen anyone do this (no doubt because it would be an
error), but as I said, I don't think I've ever seen hard-coded dates
in any programs I've worked on.  I've never encountered anyone having
problems with octals who was not a total noob at programming.  The
changing of this syntax seems like much ado about nothing to me, and
as such is annoying, consider that I use it very often.

-- 
Derek D. Martin
http://www.pizzashack.org/
GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D

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From ryniek90 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 10:04:07 2009
From: ryniek90 at gmail.com (Ryniek90)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:04:07 +0200
Subject: IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename: in windows xp
	while making tarfile 
Message-ID: <4A929DD7.4070507@gmail.com>

 >> John Machin wrote:

 >>> Erik Max Francis  alcyone.com> writes:

 >> I also suspect the "pipe" symbol. I don't know if it's an invalid
 >> character to Windows, but it's certainly a bad idea.  The '|' character
 >> means something special to the shell.

 > The "pipe" character is not a valid character in a Windows file.
 > Despite the OP's message wrapping the filename in "pipes",
 > there are no pipes in the filename in the traceback to
 > which he posted a link.  Wrapping the filename in "pipes"
 > and the cryptic reference to "the '|\U' literal fault"
 > appear to be side-issue bogglements.

 >  >>> open('boggle|txt', 'wb')
 >  Traceback (most recent call last):
 >    File "", line 1, in 
 >  IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename: 'boggle|txt'
 >  >>> open('|boggle.txt|', 'wb')
 >  Traceback (most recent call last):
 >    File "", line 1, in 
 >  IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename: '|boggle.txt|'

Sorry, but i don't know where those pipes came from  : P

The proper path is "C:\\Users\\Ryniek's
WinSe7en\\MyNewGGBackup(2009-08-23 14:59:02).tar.bz2"
and that string literal is "\U", without any pipes  :)

The truth is that script works on linux (ubuntu) but not on windows
(neither Win7 nor WinXP).
Maybe it's good idea to use raw string for specifing those paths?

As i mentioned later, some python users had the same problem with this
IOError ( like here: http://www.daniweb.com/forums/thread174552.html  or
here:
http://groups.google.com/group/sympy/browse_thread/thread/c42aca3eb53... 
 

).



From code at pizzashack.org  Mon Aug 24 10:14:25 2009
From: code at pizzashack.org (Derek Martin)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:14:25 -0500
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: <20090824135648.GA20434@dragontoe.org>
References: 
	<0018e1a0$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<20090823031901.GX20434@dragontoe.org>
	
	<87fxbifzb7.fsf@golux.woodcraft.me.uk>
	<20090824135648.GA20434@dragontoe.org>
Message-ID: <20090824141425.GB20434@dragontoe.org>

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 08:56:48AM -0500, Derek Martin wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 01:13:32PM +0000, Matthew Woodcraft wrote:
> > A more common case is dates.
> 
> I suppose this is true, but [...]
> I tend to also discount this example, because when we write dates
> with leading zeros, usually it's in some variation of the form
> 08/09/2009, which, containing slashes, is a string, not a number

In fact, now that I think of it...

I just looked at some old school papers I had tucked away in a family
album.  I'm quite sure that in grammar school, I was tought to use a
date format of 8/9/79, without leading zeros.  I can't prove it, of
course, but feel fairly sure that the prevalence of leading zeros in
dates occured only in the mid to late 1980's as computers became more
prevalent in our society (no doubt because thousands of cobol
programmers writing business apps needed a way to convert dates as
strings to numbers that was easy and fit in small memory).

Assuming I'm right about that, then the use of a leading 0 to
represent octal actually predates the prevalence of using 0 in dates
by almost two decades.  And while using leading zeros in other
contexts is "familiar" to me, I would certainly not consider it
"common" by any means.  Thus I think it's fair to say that when this
syntax was selected, it was a rather good choice.

-- 
Derek D. Martin
http://www.pizzashack.org/
GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D

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From victorsubervi at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 10:17:04 2009
From: victorsubervi at gmail.com (Victor Subervi)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:17:04 -0500
Subject: Trying To Catch Invalid User Input
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4dc0cfea0908230804o29a328ecmdb99af2ef790f5ac@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <4dc0cfea0908240717y562d89dcqb84bef146fcd08f4@mail.gmail.com>

That's nice. Thanks!
V

On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

> On Sun, 23 Aug 2009 10:04:57 -0500, Victor Subervi
>  declaimed the following in
> gmane.comp.python.general:
>
> > Hi;
> > I have the following:
> >
> > style = raw_input('What style is this? (1 = short, 2 = long): ')
> > flag = 0
> > while flag == 0:
> >   if (style != 1) or (style != 2):
> >     style = raw_input('There was a mistake. What style is this? (1 =
> short,
> > 2 = long): ')
> >   else:
> >     flag = 1
> >
>         Ugh... Unless you are using an archaic version of Python, the
> language has support for booleans...
>
> done = False
> while not done:
>        ...
>        done = True
>
>
>        You fail to convert the character input from raw_input into an
> integer for comparison... Oh, and you say the input is wrong if it is
> NOT 1 OR NOT 2... 1 is not 2, and 2 is not 1, so... even if you did
> convert to an integer, it would be rejected.
>
>        Consider:
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> while True:
>    charin = raw_input("What style is this? (1: short, 2: long): ")
>    try:
>        style = int(charin)
>    except:             #I know, should not use naked except clause
>        print ("The input '%s' is not a valid integer value; try again"
>                % charin)
>    else:
>        if style in (1, 2): break
>        print ("The input value '%s' is not in the valid range; try
> again"
>               % style)
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> {Watch out for line wraps}
> Works in Python 2.5
>
> E:\UserData\Dennis Lee Bieber\My Documents>python Script1.py
> What style is this? (1: short, 2: long): ab1
> The input 'ab1' is not a valid integer value; try again
> What style is this? (1: short, 2: long): 1a
> The input '1a' is not a valid integer value; try again
> What style is this? (1: short, 2: long): 12
> The input value '12' is not in the valid range; try again
> What style is this? (1: short, 2: long): 2
>
> E:\UserData\Dennis Lee Bieber\My Documents>
>
> --
>        Wulfraed         Dennis Lee Bieber               KD6MOG
>        wlfraed at ix.netcom.com   HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Mon Aug 24 10:20:32 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 07:20:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: basic thread question
References: 
Message-ID: <4ddd2bd2-de39-487f-95ad-64c670a9b710@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>

On 18 Aug, 22:10, Derek Martin  wrote:

> I have some simple threaded code... ?If I run this
> with an arg of 1 (start one thread), it pegs one cpu, as I would
> expect. ?If I run it with an arg of 2 (start 2 threads), it uses both
> CPUs, but utilization of both is less than 50%. ?Can anyone explain
> why? ?

Access to the Python interpreter is serialized by the global
interpreter lock (GIL). You created two threads the OS could schedule,
but they competed for access to the Python interpreter. If you want to
utilize more than one CPU, you have to release the GIL or use multiple
processes instead (os.fork since you are using Linux).

This is how the GIL can be released:

* Many functions in Python's standard library, particularly all
blocking i/o functions, release the GIL. This covers the by far most
common use of threads.

* In C or C++ extensions, use the macros Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS and
Py_END_ALLOW_THREADS.

* With ctypes, functions called from a cdll release the GIL, whereas
functions called from a pydll do not.

* In f2py, declaring a Fortran function threadsafe in a .pyf file or
cf2py comment releases the GIL.

* In Cython or Pyrex extensions, use a "with nogil:" block to execute
code without holding the GIL.


Sturla Molden


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Mon Aug 24 10:31:57 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 07:31:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: basic thread question
References: <20090818201015.GP20434@dragontoe.org>
	 
	<4a922086$0$1619$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>  
	
	
Message-ID: <4224e772-5b67-4eea-9bdf-a7d2bf7cc128@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On 24 Aug, 13:21, Piet van Oostrum  wrote:

> But os.fork() is not available on Windows. And I guess refcounts et al.
> will soon destroy the sharing.

Well, there is os.fork in Cygwin and SUA (SUA is the Unix subsytem in
Windows Vista Professional). Cygwin's fork is a bit sluggish.

Multiprocessing works on Windows and Linux alike.

Apart from that, how are you going to use threads? The GIL will not be
a problem if it can be released. Mostly, the GIL is a hypothetical
problem. It is only a problem for compute-bound code written in pure
Python. But very few use Python for that. However, if you do and can
afford the 200x speed penalty from using Python (instead of C, C++,
Fortran, Cython), you can just as well accept that only one CPU is
used.


Sturla Molden













From drobinow at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 10:33:45 2009
From: drobinow at gmail.com (David Robinow)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:33:45 -0400
Subject: Is Python what I need?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <224ed882-b78e-4b75-afa8-35c907096469@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
Message-ID: <4eb0089f0908240733h17f02cbte4154bf552404509@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 9:32 AM, Peter Otten<__peter__ at web.de> wrote:
> If you are trying to teach children that are unwilling to use pen and paper
> putting them in front of a computer doesn't help you and them one bit. As a
> starting programmer you'll have to spend a lot of time in front of your
> computer that may be better spent with your students.
 I don't think you were rude at all, but I like your second answer
even more than the first.
Nevertheless, I'd still like to hear from the Original Poster.

What are you trying to accomplish?
What software have you found that is too expensive?

Given more information, somebody might be able to help.


From ronn.ross at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 10:35:09 2009
From: ronn.ross at gmail.com (Ronn Ross)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:35:09 -0400
Subject: Reading binary files
Message-ID: <9c8c445f0908240735k6599045dn5ecbd63fa76bfe6e@mail.gmail.com>

I need to read a binary file. When I open it up in a text editor it is just
junk. Does Python have a class to help with this?
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From garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk  Mon Aug 24 10:35:56 2009
From: garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk (garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:35:56 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying
	octal?notation
References: 
	
	
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	 <87ljlahbn9.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
Message-ID: 

J. Cliff Dyer  wrote:
> I had an objection to using spaces in numeric literals last time around
> and it still stands, and it still stands in the new one.
> 

Or, we can use U+00A0 NO-BREAK SPACE, once we already have unicode
variable names :-)
(probably some people would find it difficult to type, though
with my keyboard layout it is COMPOSE + SPACE + SPACE, not 
more difficult than _).
Well, reading code listings could be a bit confusing.
Thinking about it, U+2005 FOUR-PER-EM SPACE makes more sense.
Aesthetically, too :-)

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------
| Radovan Garab?k http://kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk/~garabik/ |
| __..--^^^--..__    garabik @ kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk     |
 -----------------------------------------------------------
Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus.
Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!


From davea at dejaviewphoto.com  Mon Aug 24 10:36:42 2009
From: davea at dejaviewphoto.com (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:36:42 -0400
Subject: Temat:,Re: IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename:
	in	windows xp while making tarfile
In-Reply-To: <4A928B4B.9030502@gmail.com>
References: 
	<4A928B4B.9030502@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A92A57A.5010105@dejaviewphoto.com>

Ryniek90 wrote:
> 

>>> John Machin wrote:
>>>    
>>>> Erik Max Francis  alcyone.com> writes:
>>>>       
>>    
>>> I also suspect the "pipe" symbol. I don't know if it's an invalid 
>>> character to Windows, but it's certainly a bad idea.  The '|' 
>>> character means something special to the shell.
>>>     
>>
>> The "pipe" character is not a valid character in a Windows file.
>> Despite the OP's message wrapping the filename in "pipes",
>> there are no pipes in the filename in the traceback to
>> which he posted a link.  Wrapping the filename in "pipes"
>> and the cryptic reference to "the '|\U' literal fault"
>> appear to be side-issue bogglements.
>>
>>  >>> open('boggle|txt', 'wb')
>>  Traceback (most recent call last):
>>    File "", line 1, in 
>>  IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename: 'boggle|txt'
>>  >>> open('|boggle.txt|', 'wb')
>>  Traceback (most recent call last):
>>    File "", line 1, in 
>>  IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename: '|boggle.txt|'
>>
>>
>>
>>   
>
> Sorry, but i don't know where those pipes came from  : P
>
> The proper path is "C:\\Users\\Ryniek's 
> WinSe7en\\MyNewGGBackup(2009-08-23 14:59:02).tar.bz2"
> and that string literal is "\U", without any pipes  :)
>
> The truth is that script works on linux (ubuntu) but not on windows 
> (neither Win7 nor WinXP).
> Maybe it's good idea to use raw string for specifing those paths?
>
> As i mentioned later, some python users had the same problem with this 
> IOError ( like here: http://www.daniweb.com/forums/thread174552.html  
> or here: 
> http://groups.google.com/group/sympy/browse_thread/thread/c42aca3eb532928c 
> ).
>
>
>
> 

>
You still haven't gotten rid of those illegal colons in the filename.  
They're not legal in Windows, as has been pointed out a couple of times 
in this thread.

DaveA


From aotto1968 at users.sourceforge.net  Mon Aug 24 10:40:21 2009
From: aotto1968 at users.sourceforge.net (Andreas Otto)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:40:21 +0200
Subject: problem to write a THREAD enabled python extension
Message-ID: 


Hi,

  the following scenario:
   
 1. using GIL
 2. a pthread is created in a library and have to be "announced" to python
 3. the thread is created in a "PyObject_CallObject" function call from
      extension c code using a other extension c-code function called
      from python code

 python CRASH with invalid thread-state object
  http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/3641
 has information that GIL is NOT able to keep thread state information
 for cross thread operation.

workaround ->
......
PyGILState_STATE gilState = PyGILState_Ensure(); // PyEval_RestoreThread
// Call Python/C API...
PyGILState_Release(gilState); // PyEval_SaveThread
......
// Create new thread...
......
PyGILState_STATE gilState = PyGILState_Ensure(); // PyEval_RestoreThread
// Call Python/C API...
PyGILState_Release(gilState); // PyEval_SaveThread
......

the problem is that PyGILState_Release have to be done in the call of
"PyObject_CallObject" and not in the extension c-code

-> for now i call it impossible to provide thread support if thread is 
created in extension code

-> more info by valgrind
==29105==
==29105== Invalid read of size 4
==29105==    at 0x4F099AB: PyEval_EvalFrameEx (ceval.c:3728)
==29105==    by 0x4F0B476: PyEval_EvalCodeEx (ceval.c:3180)
==29105==    by 0x4E9DE50: function_call (funcobject.c:630)
==29105==    by 0x4E7610C: PyObject_Call (abstract.c:2160)
==29105==    by 0x4E8BEFB: method_call (classobject.c:323)
==29105==    by 0x4E7610C: PyObject_Call (abstract.c:2160)
==29105==    by 0x4F04975: PyEval_CallObjectWithKeywords (ceval.c:3624)
==29105==    by 0x72132DF: pymsgque_ProcCall (misc_python.c:48)
==29105==    by 0x742A23E: pTokenInvoke (token.c:327)
==29105==    by 0x742E7E2: sMqEventStart (msgque.c:908)
==29105==    by 0x7425365: pEventStart (event.c:360)
==29105==    by 0x742ECBF: MqProcessEvent (msgque.c:1081)
==29105==    by 0x7215F24: pymsgque_ProcessEvent (context_python.c:176)
==29105==    by 0x4F09BFA: PyEval_EvalFrameEx (ceval.c:3961)
==29105==    by 0x4F0B476: PyEval_EvalCodeEx (ceval.c:3180)
==29105==    by 0x4F0B58A: PyEval_EvalCode (ceval.c:650)
==29105==    by 0x4F2EE29: PyRun_FileExFlags (pythonrun.c:1697)
==29105==    by 0x4F2F134: PyRun_SimpleFileExFlags (pythonrun.c:1182)
==29105==    by 0x4F43CFB: Py_Main (main.c:625)
==29105==    by 0x400D11: main (python.c:152)
==29105==  Address 0x24 is not stack'd, malloc'd or (recently) free'd


-> extension code ... (including some debugging output)

M0
  PyGILState_STATE gstate = PyGILState_Ensure();
  PyObject *result;
  PyObject * const self = (PyObject*) CONTEXT->self;
  PyObject * const callable = (PyObject*) dataP;
  enum MqErrorE ret = MQ_OK;

  // clean Python and libmsgque error
  PyErr_Clear();
  MqErrorReset(msgque->error);

  // call the function
M1
printP(PyThreadState_Get())
  if (PyMethod_Check(callable) && PyMethod_Self(callable) == self) {
    //PyGILState_Release(gstate);
    result = PyObject_CallObject(callable, NULL);
    //gstate = PyGILState_Ensure();
  } else {
    //PyGILState_Release(gstate);
    result = PyObject_CallFunctionObjArgs(callable, self, NULL);
    //gstate = PyGILState_Ensure();
  }
M2
printP(PyThreadState_Get())
  Py_XDECREF(result);

  // no error return OK
  if (PyErr_Occurred() != NULL) {
    NS(ErrorSet) (self);
    ret = MqErrorGetCode(msgque->error);
  }
  PyGILState_Release(gstate);
  return ret;
}

with GIL wrapper 'PyGILState_Release' and 'PyGILState_Ensure' enabled for 
'PyObject_CallObject' the following SEG happen

  if (PyMethod_Check(callable) && PyMethod_Self(callable) == self) {
    PyGILState_Release(gstate);
    result = PyObject_CallObject(callable, NULL);
    gstate = PyGILState_Ensure();
  } else {
    PyGILState_Release(gstate);
    result = PyObject_CallFunctionObjArgs(callable, self, NULL);
    gstate = PyGILState_Ensure();
  }
pymsgque_ProcCall(misc_python.c:32) -> 00000000000000000
pymsgque_ProcCall(misc_python.c:44) -> 11111111111111111
pymsgque_ProcCall(misc_python.c:45) -> PyThreadState_Get()<0x68c2ad8>
==29223==
==29223== Thread 2:
==29223== Invalid read of size 4
==29223==    at 0x4E760EA: PyObject_Call (abstract.c:2158)
==29223==    by 0x4F04975: PyEval_CallObjectWithKeywords (ceval.c:3624)
==29223==    by 0x72132F7: pymsgque_ProcCall (misc_python.c:48)
==29223==    by 0x7430092: MqLinkCreate (msgque.c:644)
==29223==    by 0x7430AB0: MqDefaultLinkCreate (msgque.c:681)
==29223==    by 0x742F73B: MqLinkCreate (msgque.c:346)
==29223==    by 0x7432C3D: sSysServerThreadCreate (sys.c:502)
==29223==    by 0x521606F: start_thread (in /lib64/libpthread-2.9.so)
==29223==    by 0x5B5B10C: clone (in /lib64/libc-2.9.so)
==29223==  Address 0x18 is not stack'd, malloc'd or (recently) free'd
==29223==
==29223== Process terminating with default action of signal 11 (SIGSEGV)


mfg

  aotto1968




From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 10:41:09 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 07:41:09 -0700
Subject: Reading binary files
In-Reply-To: <9c8c445f0908240735k6599045dn5ecbd63fa76bfe6e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9c8c445f0908240735k6599045dn5ecbd63fa76bfe6e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

The built-in file type deals with this just fine. You can simply specify  
when opening the file that it is to be opened as binary:

http://docs.python.org/library/functions.html#open

On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 07:35:09 -0700, Ronn Ross  wrote:

> I need to read a binary file. When I open it up in a text editor it is  
> just
> junk. Does Python have a class to help with this?



-- 
Rami Chowdhury
"Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --  
Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)


From marduk at letterboxes.org  Mon Aug 24 10:43:59 2009
From: marduk at letterboxes.org (Albert Hopkins)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:43:59 -0400
Subject: Reading binary files
In-Reply-To: <9c8c445f0908240735k6599045dn5ecbd63fa76bfe6e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9c8c445f0908240735k6599045dn5ecbd63fa76bfe6e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1251125039.23757.0.camel@brotherus.corp.redhat.com>

On Mon, 2009-08-24 at 10:35 -0400, Ronn Ross wrote:
> I need to read a binary file. When I open it up in a text editor it is
> just junk. Does Python have a class to help with this? 

Yes, the "file" class.

>>> myfile = open('/path/to/binary/file', 'rb')

-a




From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Mon Aug 24 10:45:44 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 07:45:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 24 Aug, 14:08, Gilles Ganault  wrote:

> I'm especially concerned about the lack of controls, the lack of
> updates (lots of controls in wxWidgets are 1.0 deadware), and problems
> linked to how to update users' PC remotely when I build a new version
> using eg. Py2exe.

There is pywin32 if you like to work with MFC and ActiveX. Apart from
that, lack of controls is not what I associate with GTK, Qt or
wxWidgets.


> I need controls for business apps like access to databases, good data
> grid, printing reports (with or without barcodes), etc.

Why do you want GUI controls for this? If you think you do, Visual
Basic has crippled your mind.

Python has packages for database connectivity. There is ReportLab for
reports, matplotlib for graphs, pyagg or pycairo for whatever you want
to draw, etc. You can find Python packages for anything you can
imagine.



Sturla



From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Mon Aug 24 10:46:46 2009
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:46:46 +0100
Subject: Temat:,Re: IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename:
	in	windows xp while making tarfile
In-Reply-To: <4A92A57A.5010105@dejaviewphoto.com>
References: 	<4A928B4B.9030502@gmail.com>
	<4A92A57A.5010105@dejaviewphoto.com>
Message-ID: <4A92A7D6.4050903@timgolden.me.uk>

Dave Angel wrote:
> You still haven't gotten rid of those illegal colons in the filename.  
> They're not legal in Windows, as has been pointed out a couple of times 
> in this thread.


Ummm.. Colons are of course legal in Windows filenames as designating
the Alternate Data Streams:


with open ("c:/temp/test.txt", "w") as f:
  f.write ("base text")

with open ("c:/temp/test.txt:blah", "w") as f:
  f.write ("ADS text")

print open ("c:/temp/test.txt:blah").read ()



On the other hand, though, you can't have more than one
of them:


with open ("c:/temp/test.txt:blah:blah2", "w") as f:
  f.write ("ADS text2")



should raise an error.

TJG


From kwmsmith at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 10:49:56 2009
From: kwmsmith at gmail.com (Kurt Smith)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:49:56 -0500
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
In-Reply-To: <4a915067$0$31339$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
References: 
	<4a915067$0$31339$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: 

On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 9:21 AM, Stefan Behnel wrote:
> nmm1 at cam.ac.uk wrote:
>> I am interested in surveying people who want to interoperate between
>> Fortran and Python to find out what they would like to be able to do
>> more conveniently, especially with regard to types not supported for C
>> interoperability by the current Fortran standard. ?Any suggestions as to
>> other ways that I could survey such people (Usenet is no longer as
>> ubiquitous as it used to be) would be welcomed.
>
> You might want to ask also on the Cython, NumPy and SciPy mailing lists.
> NumPy and SciPy have a rather large audience of scientific developers, and
> Cython has a running sub-project on providing better Fortran integration
> (which might be of interest to you anyway).

Thanks for the mention, Stefan.  For those who are interested, here's
my blog summarizing the status of 'fwrap,' a Fortran wrapper utility
for the C, Cython & Python languages.

http://fortrancython.wordpress.com/

Linked there are my talk slides & presentation at last week's SciPy
2009 conference, which gives a good overview.

Kurt


From davea at ieee.org  Mon Aug 24 10:52:16 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:52:16 -0400
Subject: P3 weird sys.stdout.write()
In-Reply-To: <9b72f9a90908240613i513597bbk83a30946ab0b04ae@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9b72f9a90908240613i513597bbk83a30946ab0b04ae@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A92A920.70703@ieee.org>

Jerzy Jalocha N wrote:
> I've stumbled upon the following in Python 3:
>
> Python 3.0.1+ (r301:69556, Apr 15 2009, 15:59:22)
> [GCC 4.3.3] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>   
>>>> import sys
>>>> sys.stdout.write("")
>>>>         
> 0
>   
>>>> sys.stdout.write("something")
>>>>         
> something9
>   
>
> write() is appending the length of the string to it's output. That's
> not how it worked in 2.6.
>
> What's the reason for this? Is this intended? I couldn't find a bug
> report for this.
>
>   
(You probably should be using 3.1, but that's not your particular 
problem here.)

The write() function changed in 3.0, but not in the way you're 
describing.  It now (usually) has a return value, the count of the 
number of characters written.  See the 3.1 docs:

file.write(/str/)

    Write a string to the file. Due to buffering, the string may not
    actually show up in the file until the flush() or close() method is
    called.

    The meaning of the return value is not defined for every file-like
    object. Some (mostly low-level) file-like objects may return the
    number of bytes actually written, others return None.

But because you're running from the interpreter, you're seeing the 
return value(9), which is suppressed if it's None, which it was in 
2.x.   This has nothing to do with how the language behaves in normal use.

DaveA



From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Mon Aug 24 10:56:24 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 07:56:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Temat:, Re: IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename: 
	in windows xp while making tarfile
References:  
	<4A928B4B.9030502@gmail.com> <4A92A57A.5010105@dejaviewphoto.com> 
	
Message-ID: <4ec18c68-b8b5-401e-b910-802b7662dced@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 25, 12:46?am, Tim Golden  wrote:
> Dave Angel wrote:
> > You still haven't gotten rid of those illegal colons in the filename. ?
> > They're not legal in Windows, as has been pointed out a couple of times
> > in this thread.
>
> Ummm.. Colons are of course legal in Windows filenames as designating

That is the most inappropriate "of course" I've seen for quite a
while.

> the Alternate Data Streams:

OK, so s/illegal/evil/



From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 11:03:56 2009
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:03:56 -0700
Subject: IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename: in windows 
	xp while making tarfile
In-Reply-To: <4A929DD7.4070507@gmail.com>
References: <4A929DD7.4070507@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c20908240803v53cabd08la78e08163fae1aa7@mail.gmail.com>

>
> The proper path is "C:\\Users\\Ryniek's
> WinSe7en\\MyNewGGBackup(2009-08-23 14:59:02).tar.bz2"
> and that string literal is "\U", without any pipes  :)
>
> The truth is that script works on linux (ubuntu) but not on windows
> (neither Win7 nor WinXP).
> Maybe it's good idea to use raw string for specifing those paths?
>


Colons are not valid in filenames on Windows. You won't get that filename to
work. The error may be somewhat cryptic. Depending on the version of Windows
and the particulars of your filesystem, *attempting* to read/write a
filename with a colon may lead to very surprising results-- 0 sized files
with names up to the colon... as you may actually be writing to an alternate
named data stream (like a resource fork on the mac).

Basically, the error is just cryptic. The problem is your filename isn't a
valid windows filename :)

--S
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From gtaylor at l11solutions.com  Mon Aug 24 11:04:34 2009
From: gtaylor at l11solutions.com (Greg Taylor)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:04:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Fedex + SOAP
Message-ID: <55f5539e-2cb7-4e51-b897-da42e673ff57@r42g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

Fedex has recently started the process to transition from their XML-
based Web Services to the new SOAP-based equivalent. I've been trying
unsuccessfully to get an example SOAP transaction working with their
new service, but am running into validation problems.

I was wondering if anyone has already started tinkering with a Fedex
+SOAP module before I potentially re-invent the wheel. If there's
nothing in the works yet, would anyone be interested in working with
me on such a module?

Thanks,
Greg


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Mon Aug 24 11:08:07 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:08:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 24 Aug, 14:08, Gilles Ganault  wrote:

> and problems
> linked to how to update users' PC remotely when I build a new version
> using eg. Py2exe.

Remote update is a problem regardless of language. It typically
involves the following steps:

1. Download the update from a server using a background thread.

2. When the program starts, look for downloaded updates. Install
updates, then launch the Python app.

The problem is that a program's DLLs etc. become write-protected when
the program runs. So you nees two programs that cooperate to install
updates. But regardless of language you will run into this problem -
it is not Python specific. With py2exe, you can solve this using two
executables. The first py2exe launch a script that installs updates,
then spawns the second py2exe executable. The second py2exe lauch a
script that installs updates in the first, then launch the Python app.
The Python app then run a background thread that downloads new
updates.


Sturla Molden


From ebonak at hotmail.com  Mon Aug 24 11:17:37 2009
From: ebonak at hotmail.com (Esmail)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 11:17:37 -0400
Subject: your favorite debugging tool?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Hello,

thank you all for your suggestions/comments.

While I do believe in a minimalist approach (part of the reason
I find Python so appealing), using print statements sometimes
only goes so far (for me).

I probably should look into using iPython in the context of
debugging (I already use this shell).

For now I ended up giving winpdb a whirl and it did help me find
the bug that had been elusive to my print statement approach :-)

Thanks again .. and if there are additional postings, I'll be
reading them too with great interest.


Esmail



From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Aug 24 11:18:40 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:18:40 +0200
Subject: problem to write a THREAD enabled python extension
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4a92af50$0$32675$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>

Andreas Otto wrote:
> Hi,
> 
>   the following scenario:
>    
>  1. using GIL
>  2. a pthread is created in a library and have to be "announced" to python
>  3. the thread is created in a "PyObject_CallObject" function call from
>       extension c code using a other extension c-code function called
>       from python code
> 
>  python CRASH with invalid thread-state object

You forgot to create a thread state for the new thread. See the
PyThreadState_New() function.

Stefan


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Mon Aug 24 11:22:39 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:22:39 +0200
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: <20090824141425.GB20434@dragontoe.org>
References: 
	<20090824135648.GA20434@dragontoe.org>
	<20090824141425.GB20434@dragontoe.org>
Message-ID: <200908241722.39942.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Monday 24 August 2009 16:14:25 Derek Martin wrote:

> In fact, now that I think of it...
>
> I just looked at some old school papers I had tucked away in a family
> album.  I'm quite sure that in grammar school, I was tought to use a
> date format of 8/9/79, without leading zeros.  I can't prove it, of
> course, but feel fairly sure that the prevalence of leading zeros in
> dates occured only in the mid to late 1980's as computers became more
> prevalent in our society (no doubt because thousands of cobol

I was one of those COBOL programmers, and the time was around the end of the 
sixties, running into the seventies.  And the reason for leading zeroes on 
dates was the punched card, and its handmaiden, the data entry form, with a 
nice little block for every character. 



> programmers writing business apps needed a way to convert dates as
> strings to numbers that was easy and fit in small memory).
>
> Assuming I'm right about that, then the use of a leading 0 to
> represent octal actually predates the prevalence of using 0 in dates
> by almost two decades. 

Not quite - at the time I started, punch cards and data entry forms were 
already well established practice, and at least on the English machines, (ICL 
1500/1900 series) octal was prevalent, but I don't know when the leading zero 
octal notation started, and where.  I only met it much later in life, and 
learned it through hard won irritation, because it is a stupid convention, 
when viewed dispassionately.

> And while using leading zeros in other 
> contexts is "familiar" to me, I would certainly not consider it
> "common" by any means.  Thus I think it's fair to say that when this
> syntax was selected, it was a rather good choice.

I think you give it credence for far more depth of design thinking than what 
actually happened in those days - some team working on a compiler made a 
decision  (based on gut feel or experience, or precedent, or whim ) and that 
was that - lo! - a standard is born! -- We have always done it this way, here 
at company  x.  And besides, we cannot ask our main guru to spend any of his 
precious time mucking around with trivia - the man may leave us for the 
opposition if we irritate him, and systems people do not grow on trees, you 
know.

- Hendrik



From jjalocha at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 11:25:15 2009
From: jjalocha at gmail.com (Jerzy Jalocha N)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 11:25:15 -0400
Subject: P3 weird sys.stdout.write()
In-Reply-To: <4A92A920.70703@ieee.org>
References: <9b72f9a90908240613i513597bbk83a30946ab0b04ae@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A92A920.70703@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <9b72f9a90908240825m5d04cdb9m74f28e9eac1ab02f@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 10:52 AM, Dave Angel wrote:
> The write() function changed in 3.0, but not in the way you're describing.
> ?It now (usually) has a return value, the count of the number of characters
> written.
[...]
> But because you're running from the interpreter, you're seeing the return
> value(9), which is suppressed if it's None, which it was in 2.x. ? This has
> nothing to do with how the language behaves in normal use.

This makes it much clearer!
You are right, output in a shell script is "normal", without the return value.
Thank you, Dave.

-Jerzy


From bbxx789_05ss at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 24 11:29:39 2009
From: bbxx789_05ss at yahoo.com (7stud)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:29:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: print() and unicode strings (python 3.1)
Message-ID: <4eda8137-7db9-4c39-a2c1-3477b071f7f6@x5g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

======python 2.6 ======
import sys

print sys.getdefaultencoding()

s = u"\u20ac"
print s.encode("utf-8")


$ python2.6 1test.py
ascii
?


=====python 3.1 =======
import sys

print(sys.getdefaultencoding())

s = "?"
print(s.encode("utf-8"))
print(s)


$ python3.1 1test.py
utf-8
b'\xe2\x82\xac'

Traceback (most recent call last):
File "1test.py", line 7, in 
print(s)
UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character '\u20ac' in
position 0: ordinal not in range(12


I don't understand why I'm getting an encode error in python 3.1.



From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 11:31:13 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:31:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References:  
	<0018e1a0$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<20090823031901.GX20434@dragontoe.org> 
	
	<87fxbifzb7.fsf@golux.woodcraft.me.uk> 
	
Message-ID: <0b380152-efb5-4cee-b75e-28ff59e095fd@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 24, 6:56?am, Derek Martin  wrote:
>?I think
> hard-coding dates is more uncommon than using octal. ;-) ?[It
> unquestionably is, for me personally.]

You just don't get it, do you?  Do you really think this is a contest
over what's more common and the winner gets to choose the syntax?  You
really think that's the issue?

It is not.  The issue is that C's arcane octal notation is MIND-
BOGGLINGLY RETARDED.

So, even if Unix file permissions were a hundred times more common
than padding integer constants with zero, it still wouldn't be a good
idea to have it in Python because the notation is retarded.

Even if 99.999% of other languages use the notation, it still wouldn't
be a good idea to have it in Python because the notation is retarded.

The vast majority of people reading this will understand intuitively
why the arcane octal notation is retarded.  I was going to explain it,
but I decided it's not worth a serious argument.


Carl Banks


From find.mig at paa.google  Mon Aug 24 11:32:23 2009
From: find.mig at paa.google (Esben von Buchwald)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:32:23 +0200
Subject: Protecting against callbacks queuing up?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4a91db65$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
	
Message-ID: <4a92b290$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>

Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:

> see if there is an "after" method somewhere.
> 
> What you have to do is to "break the link" between the callback
> and the processing.  Your code above is all in the callback "thread", despite 
> the fact that you call another function to do the processing.
> 
> So if you replace the data_callback() with an after call, it should work as 
> you expect.
> 
> HTH - Hendrik
> 

Thanks

I'm new to python, what is an after function and an after call? Couldn't 
find excact answer on google...? Do you have a link to some docs?


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Mon Aug 24 11:36:24 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 24 Aug 2009 15:36:24 GMT
Subject: Literal concatenation, strings vs. numbers (was: Numeric
	literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal  notation)
References: 
	
	
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	 <87ljlahbn9.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
	<7fe9mbF2l83bmU1@mid.individual.net>
	<871vn2gcai.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <02a2a388$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 12:45:25 +1000, Ben Finney wrote:

> greg  writes:
> 
>> J. Cliff Dyer wrote:
>>
>> > What happens if you use a literal like 0x10f 304?
>>
>> To me the obvious thing to do is concatenate them textually and then
>> treat the whole thing as a single numeric literal. Anything else
>> wouldn't be sane, IMO.

Agreed. It's the only sane way to deal with concatenating numeric 
literals. It makes it simple and easy to understand: remove the 
whitespace from inside the literal, and parse as normal.

123 4567 => 1234567  # legal
0xff 123 => 0xff123  # legal
123 0xff => 1230xff  # illegal

The first two examples would be legal, the last would raise a syntax 
error, for obvious reasons. This would also work for floats:

1.23 4e5 => 1.234e5  # legal
1.23 4.5 => 1.234.5  # illegal
1e23 4e5 => 1e234e5  # illegal



> Yet, as was pointed out, that behaviour would be inconsistent with the
> concatenation of string literals::
> 
>     >>> "abc" r'def' u"ghi" 'jkl'
>     u'abcdefghijkl'

Unicode/byte conversion is obviously a special case, and arguably should 
have been prohibited, although "practicality beats purity" suggests that 
a single unicode string in the sequence should make the lot unicode. 
(What else could it mean?)

In any case, numeric concatenation and string concatenation are very 
different beasts. With strings, you have to interpret each piece as 
either bytes or characters, you have to treat escapes specially, you have 
to deal with matching delimiters. For numeric concatenation, none of 
those complications is relevant: there is no equivalent to the byte/
character dichotomy, there are no escape sequences, there are no 
delimiters.

Numeric literals are much simpler than string literals, consequently the 
concatenation rule can be correspondingly simpler too. There's no need to 
complicate it by *adding* complexity: you can't have mixed bases in a 
single numeric literal without spaces, why would you expect to have mixed 
bases in one with spaces?




-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Mon Aug 24 11:40:24 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 24 Aug 2009 15:40:24 GMT
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<4a918fe0$0$30226$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net>
	<02a1cc1d$0$30337$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4a9243d3$0$32677$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <02a2a478$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:40:03 +0200, Stefan Behnel wrote:

>> Or you could enter the 21 century and understand that "guys" has become
>> a generic term for people of any sex.
> 
> Is that true for everyone who understands and/or writes English? In that
> case, I'm fine with your above statement. Otherwise, I'd wonder who you
> meant with the term "cultural chauvinism". So far, I only learned that
> most North-American English native speakers use that term in the way you
> refer to. That doesn't even get you close to the majority of English
> speakers.

If you read the entire thread, you'd see that we've already discussed the 
issue of "guys" for mixed sex groups and females. In fact, as I'd already 
said, I'm one of those old fashioned guys who still gets surprised when 
women refer to themselves as guys, but I'm learning to keep up with the 
times. I'm Australian, not North American, and the British author Michael 
Quinion, one of the researchers for the Oxford Dictionary, also states 
that "guys" now refers to both men and women:

http://www.worldwidewords.org/weirdwords/ww-guy1.htm

When "guys" can refer to either sex in English, American, Canadian and 
Australian English, I think it should be pretty uncontroversial to treat 
it as standard now.



-- 
Steven


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 11:49:36 2009
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:49:36 -0700
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7a9c25c20908240849p283cb70o50f374a4f8c867b@mail.gmail.com>

>
>        I was wondering if some people in this ng use Python and some GUI
> toolkit (PyWin32, wxWidgets, QT, etc.) to build professional
> applications, and if yes, what it's like, the pros and cons, etc.


My company does. A few years ago we decided to re-write our entire aging
product line in Python using wxPython as the GUI layer (PyWin32 was out
because we wanted Mac compatibility, and at that time between QT's
commercial license and my own familiarity with wx meant we just used that by
default.)

It took some time to get solid; there's a learning curve involved in doing
things "the pythonic way", and wxPython is -- not really pythonic(and no
powerful GUI library is, though there are some simpler libraries out there
which are), so you're learning in two directions at once.

It's been a pretty interesting experience, and I'd consider it a complete
success, honestly. It took some time to get the full suite going from
"functional" to "mature", mostly because of certain complexities to our
system which have nothing to do with Python. But, Python and wxPython as the
foundation for the system has allowed some pretty remarkable flexibility in
getting something usable to the customer quickly, getting early feedback and
rapidly responding to their needs and growing the application as we did so.

It's been a very iterative process, but I don't know if you want to create a
long-term project or get something out that works Just Fine, Right Now. For
us we started out with a basic re-implementation of the legacy system which
just 'worked', and have over the last few years probably rewritten most of
the original code at least twice (a piece at a time)-- re-factoring and
redesigning both the insides and UI as new controls and technologies (and
our own knowledge!) improve over time. For us that's good, because we like
maintenance contracts :)

But we've had a continually evolving product line-- getting faster with
every new release, slicker, with new features and evolving continually.
Sure, every program /should/ do that -- but using Python+wxPython IMHO has
been invaluable to the process of evolving /efficiently/. It takes very
little effort to /maintain/ the system, very little effort going back to
some deep dark place in the codebase and figuring out what the heck was done
by someone else three years ago... and very little effort to pull the whole
thing apart and piece it back together with a new heart when it's discovered
the original didn't quite do things as well as it should.

I'm especially concerned about the lack of controls, the lack of
> updates (lots of controls in wxWidgets are 1.0 deadware),


I find this comment -- frankly bizarre.

There's a plethora if controls in wxWidgets, and it's not terribly hard once
you learn the system how to make your own. Check out Andrea Gavana's
excellent suite of custom widgets (which continually get migrated into the
core wxPython) and the AUI, and the sublime ObjectListView for Python.

Now, if you're talking about "lack of the latest Microsoft-specialized
controls", that's true. wxWidgets is cross-platform so doesn't readily adopt
the latest and newest way that Microsoft does things with each new iteration
of Office and Windows pumping out a new UI paradigm. But you can still
create very native and impressively functional looking apps.

With wxWidgets at least (I have no idea about QT), you also don't have a
series of data-aware controls that you may be used to, but it's *really* not
that hard to write that layer yourself.

You may also want to look into Dabo, which builds on top of wxPython and I
believe solves some of its limitations with regards to data-integration if
you do things in a way that are Dabo-esque. I'm only vaguely familiar with
it, though.

Depending on your needs, you can use various dialog builders to create
XRC/XML "descriptions" of your interface and load them up-- but personally I
hand-code all the controls and interfaces, and doing so once you learn the
system is really quite rapid. I can dummy up a very functional interface for
testing/dummying much faster in Python/wxPython then I can in Visual Studio.
It doesn't have as many bells and whistles, but I really can't imagine why
anyone would find themselves control-starved.


> and problems
> linked to how to update users' PC remotely when I build a new version
> using eg. Py2exe.
>

What problems? Yes, you have to learn py2exe, but once you have your program
packaged together, it's no different then any other program on windows.
Build a MSI, and have the IT guy push that MSI out via an active directory
group policy. Isn't that the standard way you install and update /any/ group
of users' software on a windows network? Regardless of in what language you
write it in?

I need controls for business apps like access to databases, good data
> grid, printing reports (with or without barcodes), etc.


Data access is easy and well supported to a wide-variety of databases,
depending on just how you want to do it. I've recently fallen in love with
SQLAlchemy, though previously I did mostly simple DB-API based access and
home-grown model objects representing data models.

The wxWidgets "data grid" is somewhat somewhat lacking at present in that it
doesn't really connect "to" the database-- but it is not significantly hard
to write a table implementation to serve as your 'backend' to connect to the
database, which the grid can then uses to define what it shows. Dabo's grid
implementation solves that, I believe, so may be good for you.

Reports, I have no idea-- in my company's domain the reporting needs are
very limited, and we've found it sufficient to write out a HTML file and
toss up IE to print out the table. But there is reportlab which is an
excellent library for PDF generation -- and making reports in particular, of
course. It has support for barcodes, I believe.

Dabo also has some links to a report generator they include -- never really
looked in beyond glancing and going 'Oh, neat.'

--S
P.S. I have no idea why I'm pumping Dabo so much in this though I've never
used it!
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From john.haxby at oracle.com  Mon Aug 24 11:50:11 2009
From: john.haxby at oracle.com (John Haxby)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:50:11 +0100
Subject: Bash-like brace expansion
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A92B6B3.9020509@oracle.com>

Peter Waller wrote:
> Okay, I got fed up with there not being any (obvious) good examples of
> how to do bash-like brace expansion in Python, so I wrote it myself.
> Here it is for all to enjoy!
>
> If anyone has any better solutions or any other examples of how to do
> this, I'd be glad to hear from them.
>    

That was a little while ago and while I found Peter's BraceExpand was a 
good start it wasn't quite what I wanted.  It's not quite the same as 
bash: for example, BraceExpand("{1,3..5}") gives "1 3 4 5" but bash 
gives "1 3..5" (use "{1,{3..5}}") and bash turns all of "{a..z}", 
"{z..a}, "{10..-10}" into sequences.

My version is a little shorter, mostly because it's heavily recursive so 
it may fail spectacularly on some pathological cases :-)

jch
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From code at pizzashack.org  Mon Aug 24 11:50:28 2009
From: code at pizzashack.org (Derek Martin)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:50:28 -0500
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: <200908241722.39942.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
References: 
	<20090824135648.GA20434@dragontoe.org>
	<20090824141425.GB20434@dragontoe.org>
	<200908241722.39942.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
Message-ID: <20090824155028.GC20434@dragontoe.org>

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 05:22:39PM +0200, Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:
> > Assuming I'm right about that, then the use of a leading 0 to
> > represent octal actually predates the prevalence of using 0 in dates
> > by almost two decades. 
> 
> Not quite - at the time I started, punch cards and data entry forms were 
> already well established practice, and at least on the English machines, (ICL 
> 1500/1900 series) octal was prevalent, but I don't know when the leading zero 
> octal notation started, and where.  

I said "prevalence."  The key is that the average person did not start
using leading zeros in dates until (I think) much, much later, and
that's what's relevant to this discussion.  If it were not commonplace
for people to use decimal numbers with leading zeros, this whole
thread would be a moot point, the python devs likely never would have
considered changing the syntax, and we would not be having this
discussion.  Most people did not work as data entry clerks on ICL
computers... :)

Those participating in this thread have pretty much all seem to agree
that the only places where decimal numbers with leading zeros really
are common are either in rather specialized applications, such as
computer-oriented data or serial numbers (which typically behave more
like strings, from a computer science perspective), or the rather
common one of dates.  The latter case is perhaps what's significant,
if any of those cases are.  I tend to think that within the computer
science arena, the history and prevalence of the leading 0 indicating
octal far outweighs all of those cases combined.

> I think you give it credence for far more depth of design thinking than what 
> actually happened in those days - some team working on a compiler made a 
> decision  (based on gut feel or experience, or precedent, or whim ) and that 
> was that - lo! - a standard is born! 

Rather, I think you give the folks at Bell Labs way too little credit.
They designed a programming language and an operating system that,
while certainly not exactly the same as their original incarnations,
even then contained a lot of features and design principles that
remain state-of-the-art (though perhaps their specific implementation
details have since been improved) and in many ways superior to a lot
of what has come since (e.g. virtually anything that came out of
Microsoft).  [That's just my opinion, of course... but shared by many.
:)]  I don't think that happened by mere accident.  That's not to say
they were perfect, but those guys had their proverbial $#!t together.

-- 
Derek D. Martin
http://www.pizzashack.org/
GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D

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From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Aug 24 11:56:43 2009
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?windows-1252?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:56:43 +0200
Subject: print() and unicode strings (python 3.1)
In-Reply-To: <4eda8137-7db9-4c39-a2c1-3477b071f7f6@x5g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
References: <4eda8137-7db9-4c39-a2c1-3477b071f7f6@x5g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a92b83b$0$27209$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

> I don't understand why I'm getting an encode error in python 3.1.

The default encoding is not relevant here at all. Look at
sys.stdout.encoding.

Regards,
Martin


From chris at simplistix.co.uk  Mon Aug 24 12:08:15 2009
From: chris at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:08:15 +0100
Subject: Python 2.6 still not giving memory back to the OS...
In-Reply-To: <4A88406C.3060609@v.loewis.de>
References: 	<38581c40-b7ed-4dbf-a3af-33e1761ba7b0@r7g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>	<762603ba-0a4c-4504-94d9-34a8b1e3f9c3@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<4A88406C.3060609@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <4A92BAEF.2010303@simplistix.co.uk>

Martin v. L?wis wrote:
> Today, there are two cases when malloc returns memory on a typical
> Unix system (in particular, in Linux malloc):
> a) if the malloc block block is small (below page size), it is allocated
>    from the brk heap, where it can only be returned if the last page of
>    that heap is completely free, and
> b) if the block is large (multiple pages), it gets returned to the
>    system right away.
> 
> Case b) can only happen if the C malloc uses mmap to allocate large
> blocks. 

I believe (and John will correct me if I'm wrong) that xlrd uses mmap, 
so why am I not seeing the memory being returned?

Chris

-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting
            - http://www.simplistix.co.uk


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Aug 24 12:12:11 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:12:11 +0200
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
In-Reply-To: <02a2a478$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>		<4a918fe0$0$30226$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net>	<02a1cc1d$0$30337$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<4a9243d3$0$32677$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
	<02a2a478$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4a92bbdb$0$32676$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:40:03 +0200, Stefan Behnel wrote:
> 
>>> Or you could enter the 21 century and understand that "guys" has become
>>> a generic term for people of any sex.
>> Is that true for everyone who understands and/or writes English? In that
>> case, I'm fine with your above statement. Otherwise, I'd wonder who you
>> meant with the term "cultural chauvinism". So far, I only learned that
>> most North-American English native speakers use that term in the way you
>> refer to. That doesn't even get you close to the majority of English
>> speakers.
> 
> If you read the entire thread, you'd see that we've already discussed the 
> issue of "guys" for mixed sex groups and females. In fact, as I'd already 
> said, I'm one of those old fashioned guys who still gets surprised when 
> women refer to themselves as guys, but I'm learning to keep up with the 
> times. I'm Australian, not North American, and the British author Michael 
> Quinion, one of the researchers for the Oxford Dictionary, also states 
> that "guys" now refers to both men and women:
> 
> http://www.worldwidewords.org/weirdwords/ww-guy1.htm
> 
> When "guys" can refer to either sex in English, American, Canadian and 
> Australian English, I think it should be pretty uncontroversial to treat 
> it as standard now.

Ok, then I guess I just misread "after being adopted in the USA it started
to change meaning" in one of the cited articles as "it changed meaning in
the USA". I didn't expect Australians (and Oxford dictionary writers, and
potentially others) to be /that/ influenced by shifts in US juvenile word
semantics...

I for one wouldn't start calling my leg "foot", even though the Austrians
kept insisting for ages now.

Stefan


From chris at simplistix.co.uk  Mon Aug 24 12:13:45 2009
From: chris at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:13:45 +0100
Subject: Barcodes
In-Reply-To: <9c8c445f0908191655i42ec8f86p8f699f2b35cbf6f7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9c8c445f0908171318x2d9d862bi35ccb398376aceca@mail.gmail.com>	
	<4A89C3BB.2030605@tim.thechases.com>	<9c8c445f0908190619v5f50de1bvbbfbd8c0557f9783@mail.gmail.com>
	<9c8c445f0908191655i42ec8f86p8f699f2b35cbf6f7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A92BC39.3010007@simplistix.co.uk>

Ronn Ross wrote:
> 
> I found this library, but no 
> documentation(https://cybernetics.hudora.biz/projects/wiki/huBarcode). 
> Has anyone used this or know of a similar library with better 
> documentation?

Yup, reportlab has really good barcode generation stuff.
I use it to generate labels with barcodes on for asset tracking :-)

http://the-gay-bar.com/index.php?/archives/221-Howto-generate-barcodes-in-Python-with-reportlab/

Chris

-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting
            - http://www.simplistix.co.uk


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Mon Aug 24 12:18:20 2009
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:18:20 -0700
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

Piet van Oostrum wrote:
>>>>>> Scott David Daniels  (SDD) wrote:
> 
>> SDD> James Harris wrote:...
>>>> Another option:
>>>>
>>>> 0.(2:1011), 0.(8:7621), 0.(16:c26b)
>>>>
>>>> where the three characters "0.(" begin the sequence.
>>>>
>>>> Comments? Improvements?
> 
>> SDD> I did a little interpreter where non-base 10 numbers
>> SDD> (up to base 36) were:
> 
>> SDD>     .7.100   == 64  (octal)
>> SDD>     .9.100   == 100 (decimal)
>> SDD>     .F.100   == 256 (hexadecimal)
>> SDD>     .1.100   == 4   (binary)
>> SDD>     .3.100   == 9   (trinary)
>> SDD>     .Z.100   == 46656 (base 36)
> 
> I wonder how you wrote that interpreter, given that some answers are wrong.
Obviously I started with a different set of examples and edited after 
starting to make a table that could be interpretted in each base.  After
doing that, I forgot to double check, and lo and behold .F.1000 = 46656,
while .F.100 = 1296.  Since it has been decades since I've had access
to that interpreter, this is all from memory.

--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From nmm1 at cam.ac.uk  Mon Aug 24 12:20:23 2009
From: nmm1 at cam.ac.uk (nmm1 at cam.ac.uk)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:20:23 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
	<5134d9f1-0e23-4e05-a817-bf0cc9e85d3e@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
sturlamolden   wrote:
>
>You also made this claim regarding Fortran's C interop with strings:
>
>"No, I mean things like 'Kilroy was here'.  Currently, Fortran's C
>interoperability supports only strings of length 1, and you have
>to kludge them up as arrays.  That doesn't work very well, especially
>for things like function results."
>
>This obviosuly proves you wrong:

Er, no, it doesn't.  I suggest that you read what I said more
carefully - and the Fortran standard.  As I said, you can kludge
them up, and that is precisely one such kludge - but, as I also
said, it doesn't work very well.

However, I shall take your answer as a "yes, I want to do that".



Regards,
Nick Maclaren.


From code at pizzashack.org  Mon Aug 24 12:21:46 2009
From: code at pizzashack.org (Derek Martin)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 11:21:46 -0500
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: <0b380152-efb5-4cee-b75e-28ff59e095fd@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<0018e1a0$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<20090823031901.GX20434@dragontoe.org>
	
	<87fxbifzb7.fsf@golux.woodcraft.me.uk>
	
	<0b380152-efb5-4cee-b75e-28ff59e095fd@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20090824162146.GD20434@dragontoe.org>

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 08:31:13AM -0700, Carl Banks wrote:
> On Aug 24, 6:56?am, Derek Martin  wrote:
> >?I think hard-coding dates is more uncommon than using octal. ;-)
> >?[It unquestionably is, for me personally.]
> 
> You just don't get it, do you?  

I think I get it just fine, thanks.

> Do you really think this is a contest over what's more common and
> the winner gets to choose the syntax?  You really think that's the
> issue?

No, I think it's about egos.  Someone got the idea that 0o1 was better
than 01, and had to be Right.  And had the power to make it happen, or
at least (sadly) convince the people with the power.

I'm simply presenting an argument that the need for the change is not so
clear.  You say the old syntax is retarded.  I say the new syntax, and
the very act of making the change itself is retarded.  I think my
argument is very solid and persuasive; but of course some minds are
invulnerable to persuasion.  I might not even disagree that the old
syntax could be improved upon, except that it already is what it is,
and the new syntax is NOT better; I personally believe it's not only
not better, but that it's actually worse.  Others have agreed.

> It is not.  The issue is that C's arcane octal notation is MIND-
> BOGGLINGLY RETARDED.

As I said, I searched the web on this topic before I bothered to post.
I did a bit of research.  One of the things that my search turned up:
A lot of smart people disagree with you.  If the use of the leading
zero boggles your mind, then perhaps your mind is too easily boggled,
and perhaps you should seek a different way to occupy your time.

This is yet another case where some Pythonista has gotten it in his
head that "There is One Truth, and the Old Way be Damned, my way is
The Way, and Thus Shall It Be Evermore."  And worse yet, managed to
convince others.  Well, there's no such thing as One Truth, and there
are different perspectives that are just as valid as yours.  I'm
expressing one now.  This change sucks.  I already know that my rant
won't change the syntax.  The only reason I bothered to post is
because I do actually quite like Python -- something I can say of only
one other programming language -- and I think the powers that be are
(in some cases) making it worse, not better.  I hoped to open a few
minds with a different perspective, but of course I should have known
better.

0o1 is not better than 01. On my terminal it's hard to see the
difference between 0 and o.  YMMV.  But since YMMV, and since the old
syntax is prevalent both within and without the Python community,
making the change is, was, and always will be a bad idea.

-- 
Derek D. Martin
http://www.pizzashack.org/
GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D

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From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Mon Aug 24 12:47:43 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 24 Aug 2009 16:47:43 GMT
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: 
	<0018e1a0$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<20090823031901.GX20434@dragontoe.org>
	
	<87fxbifzb7.fsf@golux.woodcraft.me.uk>
	<20090824135648.GA20434@dragontoe.org>
	
Message-ID: <02a2b43f$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:14:25 -0500, Derek Martin wrote:

> Assuming I'm right about that, then the use of a leading 0 to represent
> octal actually predates the prevalence of using 0 in dates by almost two
> decades.  And while using leading zeros in other contexts is "familiar"
> to me, I would certainly not consider it "common" by any means.  Thus I
> think it's fair to say that when this syntax was selected, it was a
> rather good choice.

Except of course to anyone familiar with mathematics in the last, oh, 
five hundred years or so. Mathematics has used a positional system for 
numbers for centuries now: leading zeroes have been insignificant, just 
like trailing zeroes after the decimal point:

9 = 09 = 009 = 9.0 = 9.00 = 0009.000 etc.



-- 
Steven


From ronn.ross at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 12:50:37 2009
From: ronn.ross at gmail.com (Ronn Ross)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 12:50:37 -0400
Subject: Reading binary files
In-Reply-To: <9c8c445f0908240818k1ae301acr49c65ccb21435cd7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9c8c445f0908240735k6599045dn5ecbd63fa76bfe6e@mail.gmail.com>
	<1251125039.23757.0.camel@brotherus.corp.redhat.com>
	<9c8c445f0908240818k1ae301acr49c65ccb21435cd7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9c8c445f0908240950h24e5bfccoc9ae809c1048be5d@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Ronn Ross  wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Albert Hopkins wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 2009-08-24 at 10:35 -0400, Ronn Ross wrote:
>> > I need to read a binary file. When I open it up in a text editor it is
>> > just junk. Does Python have a class to help with this?
>>
>> Yes, the "file" class.
>>
>> >>> myfile = open('/path/to/binary/file', 'rb')
>>
>> -a
>>
> This works for a simple binary file, but the actual file I'm trying to read
> is give throwing an error that the file cannot be found. Here is the name of
> the my file:
> 2009.08.02_06.52.00_WA-1_0001_00_0662_0.jstars
>
> Should python have trouble reading this file name or extension?
>
I'm having trouble with the filename:
2009.08.02_06.52.00_WA-1_0001_00_0662_0.jstars

It throws an error with that file name, When I change it to something like
sample.txt it runs, but the data is still garbled. Is there any reason why I
can't use the above file name? If I'm using 'rb' to read the binary file why
is it still garbled?
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From bbxx789_05ss at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 24 12:54:03 2009
From: bbxx789_05ss at yahoo.com (7stud)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:54:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: print() and unicode strings (python 3.1)
References: <4eda8137-7db9-4c39-a2c1-3477b071f7f6@x5g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<4a92b83b$0$27209$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 24, 9:56?am, "Martin v. L?wis"  wrote:
> > I don't understand why I'm getting an encode error in python 3.1.
>
> The default encoding is not relevant here at all. Look at
> sys.stdout.encoding.
>
> Regards,
> Martin

Hi,

Thanks for the response.  I get US-ASCII for both 2.6 and 3.1:

===python 3.1======
import sys

print(sys.stdout.encoding)


$ python3.1 1test.py
US-ASCII

I can't figure out a way to programatically set the encoding for
sys.stdout.  So where does that leave me? python 3.1 won't let me
explicitly encode my unicode string, and python 3.1 implicitly does
the encoding with the wrong codec.  And why would any programmer rely
on python 3.1's implicit encoding of unicode strings anyway?
Presumably, different systems will have different encodings for
sys.stdout, some encodings might cause encode errors.



From rurpy at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 24 12:56:47 2009
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:56:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
References: 
Message-ID: <8e65beea-eb8e-45cf-b286-36055be5eb2e@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On 08/24/2009 06:08 AM, Gilles Ganault wrote:
> 	I was wondering if some people in this ng use Python and some GUI
> toolkit (PyWin32, wxWidgets, QT, etc.) to build professional
> applications, and if yes, what it's like, the pros and cons, etc.
>
> I'm especially concerned about the lack of controls, the lack of
> updates (lots of controls in wxWidgets are 1.0 deadware), and problems
> linked to how to update users' PC remotely when I build a new version
> using eg. Py2exe.
>
> I need controls for business apps like access to databases, good data
> grid, printing reports (with or without barcodes), etc.

I sure you'll get plenty of GUI-x is really great and you'll
is just as good as anything commercial out there, so I thought
a minority opinion, even if unpopular, might be useful.

Won't comment on the control choices or packaging issues, but I
am at the moment doing a little database-connected app that
presents editable data in a spreadsheet like (grid) form using
wxPython.

It has been a very painful process.  I have not found any simple
pre-written code to connect a wxPython grid to a database so
that the result is something like a Microsoft Access datasheet.[*1]
It is probably taking me 10 times as long to develop this app
in WxPython/Postgresql as it did to develop something similar
in MS Access/VBA/SQL Server.

I haven't needed for printing yet, but I've read wxpython maillist
posts about the difficultly of getting printing to work so you may
want to check that out as well before commiting to wxpython.

A meta-issue that applies (I think) to both wxPython and PyQt
is that both projects seem to be highly dependent on a single
person leading one to worry about the "bus" scenario.

I am not a fan of Microsoft (in fact I despise their commercial
behavior and many aspects of thier products) but I am reporting
the reality as I've experienced it.

[*1] There are ORMs like Sqlalchemy but they introduce a additional
problems like inefficient database operations, dependency on a
large external package, etc.  It is hard to tell for sure since
the Sqlalchemy docs are lousy, which of course means even more
development time.


From code at pizzashack.org  Mon Aug 24 13:02:39 2009
From: code at pizzashack.org (Derek Martin)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 12:02:39 -0500
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: <02a2b43f$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 
	<0018e1a0$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<20090823031901.GX20434@dragontoe.org>
	
	<87fxbifzb7.fsf@golux.woodcraft.me.uk>
	<20090824135648.GA20434@dragontoe.org>
	
	<02a2b43f$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <20090824170239.GE20434@dragontoe.org>

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 04:47:43PM +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Except of course to anyone familiar with mathematics in the last, oh, 
> five hundred years or so. Mathematics has used a positional system for 
> numbers for centuries now: leading zeroes have been insignificant, just 
> like trailing zeroes after the decimal point:
> 
> 9 = 09 = 009 = 9.0 = 9.00 = 0009.000 etc.

Dude, seriously.  No one ever *uses* leading zeros in the context of
mathematics except in 2nd grade math class.

-- 
Derek D. Martin
http://www.pizzashack.org/
GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D

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From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Mon Aug 24 13:03:28 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 24 Aug 2009 17:03:28 GMT
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: 
	<0018e1a0$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<20090823031901.GX20434@dragontoe.org>
	
	<87fxbifzb7.fsf@golux.woodcraft.me.uk>
	
	<0b380152-efb5-4cee-b75e-28ff59e095fd@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <02a2b7f1$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 11:21:46 -0500, Derek Martin wrote:

> since the old
> syntax is prevalent both within and without the Python community, making
> the change is, was, and always will be a bad idea.

Octal syntax isn't prevalent *at all*, except in a small number of niche 
areas.

You've said that this change is a hardship for you, because on your 
terminal 0 and o are hard to distinguish. Personally, I'd say that's a 
good sign that your terminal is crappy and you should use a better one, 
but putting that aside, let's accept that. To you, for whatever reason, 
0o looks just like 00.

Okay then. Under the current 2.x syntax, 0012 would be interpreted as 
octal. Under the new 3.x syntax, 0o12 which looks just like 0012 also 
would be interpreted as octal. You have argued that it might not be any 
harder to type the extra 'o' to get an octal literal, but that it will 
hurt readability. I quote:

"Writing 0o12 presents no hardship; but I assert, with at least some
support from others here, that *reading* it does."

But according to you, reading 0o12 is just like reading 0012. 0o12 under 
the new syntax gives decimal ten, and it looks just like 0012 in the old 
syntax, which also gives ten. So there's no difference in reading, and 
you've already accepted that the extra effort in writing it "presents no 
hardship".

A whole lot of noise over a change which is more or less invisible.



-- 
Steven


From harald.luessen at gmx.de  Mon Aug 24 13:18:16 2009
From: harald.luessen at gmx.de (Harald Luessen)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:18:16 +0200
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: 
	<20090824135648.GA20434@dragontoe.org>
	<20090824141425.GB20434@dragontoe.org>
	<200908241722.39942.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
	
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 Derek Martin wrote:
>Those participating in this thread have pretty much all seem to agree
>that the only places where decimal numbers with leading zeros really
>are common are either in rather specialized applications, such as
>computer-oriented data or serial numbers (which typically behave more
>like strings, from a computer science perspective), or the rather
>common one of dates.  The latter case is perhaps what's significant,
>if any of those cases are.

I don't like the 'leading 0 is octal'-syntax. I typically think of
numbers as decimal and bytes as hexadecimal.
I would even write something like this:

# iterate over bits 3 to 5
for i in range(0x00, 0x40, 0x08):
    ...
    print "0x%02x\n" % i

0x00
0x08
0x10
0x18
0x20
0x28
0x30
0x38

For me it is easier to see where the bits are in the hex notation.

And it is very common to use numbers with leading zeroes
that are hexadecimal. Like this:

# print address and data
for i in range(0x10000):
    print "%04x: %d\n" % i, data[i]

0000: ...
0001: ...
...
000f: ...
0010: ...
...

When you are looking for examples of numbers where leading zeroes
do not mean octal then consider decimal AND hexadecimal.

>I tend to think that within the computer
>science arena, the history and prevalence of the leading 0 indicating
>octal far outweighs all of those cases combined.

I disagree.

Harald



From robert.kern at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 13:19:27 2009
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 12:19:27 -0500
Subject: Is Python what I need?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <224ed882-b78e-4b75-afa8-35c907096469@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>		
	
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-24 08:32 AM, Peter Otten wrote:
> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>
>>> > From the distance it looks like these children need a good teacher
>>>> rather than a bad (or just starting) programmer.
>
>> Wow, that is rude. Let's keep this list friendly, won't we ?
>
> I may have been too blunt, and if my message has come across as an insult I
> apologize for that. Let me try again:
>
> If you are trying to teach children that are unwilling to use pen and paper
> putting them in front of a computer doesn't help you and them one bit. As a
> starting programmer you'll have to spend a lot of time in front of your
> computer that may be better spent with your students.

I suspect everyone is reading too much into the word "aversion". There may be 
physical or mental handicaps involved, not the personal preference of the 
students. In such a case, the OP's word choice is not ideal, but the readers 
here should give a little more thought before assuming the most ludicrous 
interpretation.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Mon Aug 24 13:23:55 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:23:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
	<5134d9f1-0e23-4e05-a817-bf0cc9e85d3e@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
Message-ID: <760c8bce-c634-4af1-a829-efa8c2d5ed29@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>

On 24 Aug, 18:20, n... at cam.ac.uk wrote:
>This obviosuly proves you wrong:
>
> Er, no, it doesn't. ?I suggest that you read what I said more
> carefully - and the Fortran standard. ?As I said, you can kludge
> them up, and that is precisely one such kludge -

You said we have to kludge them up as arrays. I did not. I kludged up
the C string as a pointer to a Fortran string, and called strlen to
get the length of the C string. You also said we can only interop with
length-1 character strings. My kludge was valid Fortran and works with
strings of any length up to some sane limit that you can specify.

You cannot expect a C pointer to carry information about the length of
the string. C strings are nul terminated, which is precisely why we
have strlen. When C has to use strlen to get the length of a C string,
so does Fortran. You cannot use the Fortran standard to change the
behaviour of C.


> but, as I also
> said, it doesn't work very well.

Only if you have an incredibly stupid compiler.


Sturla


From dirkmoors at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 13:30:09 2009
From: dirkmoors at gmail.com (gravityzoo-dmo)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:30:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python memory management <-> virtualized server environments
Message-ID: 

Hello everyone,

I was wondering if anyone here has had any experience in running
Python in a virtualized server environment?
The reason I'm asking is the recent thing I noticed when running my
server application (written in Python + Twisted);
The memory of the server application seems to only grow, and not give
back memory space to the OS. I realize that this won't be a problem on
a single physical server, but I'm curious of the effect this behaviour
has on a virtualized environment.
Could anyone provide me with a little more insight please?
Thanks in advance!

Dirk


From jkpeck at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 13:30:23 2009
From: jkpeck at gmail.com (JKPeck)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:30:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: csv module and None values
Message-ID: 

I'm trying to get the csv module (Python 2.6) to write data records
like Excel.  The excel dialect isn't doing it.  The problem is in
writing None values.  I want them to result in just sequential commas
- ,, but csv treats None specially, as the doc says,

"To make it as easy as possible to interface with modules which
implement the DB API, the value None is written as the empty string."

I need strings to be quoted but not None values.  Is there any way to
get around this special None treatment?

TIA,
Jon Peck


From code at pizzashack.org  Mon Aug 24 13:40:24 2009
From: code at pizzashack.org (Derek Martin)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 12:40:24 -0500
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: <02a2b7f1$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 
	<0018e1a0$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<20090823031901.GX20434@dragontoe.org>
	
	<87fxbifzb7.fsf@golux.woodcraft.me.uk>
	
	<0b380152-efb5-4cee-b75e-28ff59e095fd@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<02a2b7f1$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <20090824174024.GF20434@dragontoe.org>

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 05:03:28PM +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 11:21:46 -0500, Derek Martin wrote:
> > since the old syntax is prevalent both within and without the
> > Python community, making the change is, was, and always will be a
> > bad idea.
>
> Octal syntax isn't prevalent *at all*, except in a small number of
> niche areas.

Steven, don't be obtuse.  Where octal is used in programming, the
leading zero is prevalent.  

> You've said that this change is a hardship for you, because on your 
> terminal 0 and o are hard to distinguish. Personally, I'd say that's a 
> good sign that your terminal is crappy and you should use a better one, 

The terminal I use is just fine.  Stringing together similar
characters always has the possibility of confusing the reader.  The
human mind tends to see what it expects, and fills in the gaps when it
does not.  It wouldn't matter much if I changed my terminal font,
unless I made the font big enough to be not especially useful, except
for the rather exceptional case of detecting 0o1 and similar patterns
in python code.  The suggestion is asinine, and you know it.

> but putting that aside, let's accept that. To you, for whatever reason, 
> 0o looks just like 00.

It doesn't look "just like" 00, but similar enough that you have to
pay close attention.

> Okay then. Under the current 2.x syntax, 0012 would be interpreted as 
> octal. Under the new 3.x syntax, 0o12 which looks just like 0012 also 
> would be interpreted as octal. You have argued that it might not be any 
> harder to type the extra 'o' to get an octal literal, but that it will 
> hurt readability. I quote:
> 
> "Writing 0o12 presents no hardship; but I assert, with at least some
> support from others here, that *reading* it does."
 
Let me clarify my statement.  Writing 0o12 is easy -- there is no
hardship to type the characters 0o12 (well, actually it feels a bit
cumbersome, to be honest).  Remembering to do so, however, when
virtually everwhere else one uses octal writes it 012, is not easy.
Then I stand corrected:  There is indeed hardship.

> But according to you, reading 0o12 is just like reading 0012. 0o12 under 
> the new syntax gives decimal ten, and it looks just like 0012 in the old 
> syntax, which also gives ten. So there's no difference in reading, 

But there *IS* a difference in reading, because 0o12 is not the same
as 0012, and which one you use *matters*.  In particular, it will matter 
with the adoption of Python 3.x, where the latter will be an error.
But it matters even in 2.6 because right now, you can write it either
way, and that is (I think) even more confusing...  There is also still
discussion (mentioned in the relevant PEP) about making 0012 *valid
decimal*.  That should never, ever, ever happen.

Why is it so hard for you to accept that intelligent people can
disagree with you, and that what's right for you might be bad for
others?

-- 
Derek D. Martin
http://www.pizzashack.org/
GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D

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From manu3d at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 13:43:24 2009
From: manu3d at gmail.com (Emanuele D'Arrigo)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:43:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: List iterator thread safety
Message-ID: 

Let's say I have a list accessed by two threads, one removing list
items via "del myList[index]" statement the other iterating through
the list and printing out the items via "for item in myList:"
statement. Am I right to say this -won't- generate exceptions because
the list iterator is not concerned with the list changing in size
under its nose? Or are there pitfalls I should be aware of?

Manu


From nospam at see.signature  Mon Aug 24 14:04:56 2009
From: nospam at see.signature (Richard Maine)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 11:04:56 -0700
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
	
	
	
	<1j4ww90.pvvxweehycu0N%nospam@see.signature>
	<5134d9f1-0e23-4e05-a817-bf0cc9e85d3e@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
	<760c8bce-c634-4af1-a829-efa8c2d5ed29@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1j4y84p.v5docbtueccmN%nospam@see.signature>

sturlamolden  wrote:

> You also said we can only interop with
> length-1 character strings. My kludge was valid Fortran and works with
> strings of any length up to some sane limit that you can specify.

There might be a confusion here (and I'm not even sure on whose part) on
a picky but important detail of wording. I have seen multiple people
confused by this one before. In fact, some potential confusion was
forseen, which is why there are notes specifically about it in the
Fortran standard (see below). Those notes do tend to get overlooked
though.

Only character strings of length 1 are interoperable, as the term
"interoperable" is defined in the Fortran standard. However, that does
not mean that only character strings of length 1 will work with C. The
distinction might be picky, but it is important.

See Note 15.19 (which in turn cites an example in Note 15.23) of f2003.
You can pass a Fortran string of length n as an actual argument
corrseponding to a dummy argument that is an array of n character*1
elements. This isn't considered a question of "interoperability", as it
is a feature purely within Fortran, but it does impact on what kinds of
things work.

One might plausibly regard this as a kludge, but it is a kludge that is
part of the Fortran standard and is guaranteed to work with all Fortran
compilers. I almost said all f2003-compliant compilers (admittedly a
limited set), but then I recalled that the feature actually dates back
to f77 when character type was introduced; f2003 just extends it to the
C character kind for the obscure case where the C character kind might
be different from the default character kind (I don't know of any
compilers where this is so, but the standard allows for it).

-- 
Richard Maine                    | Good judgment comes from experience;
email: last name at domain . net | experience comes from bad judgment.
domain: summertriangle           |  -- Mark Twain


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Aug 24 14:19:28 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 20:19:28 +0200
Subject: print() and unicode strings (python 3.1)
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4eda8137-7db9-4c39-a2c1-3477b071f7f6@x5g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<4a92b83b$0$27209$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	
Message-ID: <4a92d9b0$0$32667$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>

7stud wrote:
> python 3.1 won't let me
> explicitly encode my unicode string

Sure it does. But encoding a non-ASCII string to ASCII will necessarily fail.


> and python 3.1 implicitly does
> the encoding with the wrong codec.

That's not a Python problem, though. Your terminal is configured for
US-ASCII, so you can't output anything but US-ASCII characters.

Change your terminal setup to e.g. UTF-8 and see how things start working.

Stefan


From davea at ieee.org  Mon Aug 24 14:35:21 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:35:21 -0400
Subject: Reading binary files
In-Reply-To: <9c8c445f0908240950h24e5bfccoc9ae809c1048be5d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9c8c445f0908240735k6599045dn5ecbd63fa76bfe6e@mail.gmail.com>	<1251125039.23757.0.camel@brotherus.corp.redhat.com>	<9c8c445f0908240818k1ae301acr49c65ccb21435cd7@mail.gmail.com>
	<9c8c445f0908240950h24e5bfccoc9ae809c1048be5d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A92DD69.7090007@ieee.org>

Ronn Ross wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Ronn Ross  wrote:
>
>   
>> On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Albert Hopkins wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> On Mon, 2009-08-24 at 10:35 -0400, Ronn Ross wrote:
>>>       
>>>> I need to read a binary file. When I open it up in a text editor it is
>>>> just junk. Does Python have a class to help with this?
>>>>         
>>> Yes, the "file" class.
>>>
>>>       
>>>>>> myfile = open('/path/to/binary/file', 'rb')
>>>>>>             
>>> -a
>>>
>>>       
>> This works for a simple binary file, but the actual file I'm trying to read
>> is give throwing an error that the file cannot be found. Here is the name of
>> the my file:
>> 2009.08.02_06.52.00_WA-1_0001_00_0662_0.jstars
>>
>> Should python have trouble reading this file name or extension?
>>
>>     
> I'm having trouble with the filename:
> 2009.08.02_06.52.00_WA-1_0001_00_0662_0.jstars
>
> It throws an error with that file name, When I change it to something like
> sample.txt it runs, but the data is still garbled. Is there any reason why I
> can't use the above file name? If I'm using 'rb' to read the binary file why
> is it still garbled?
>
>
>   
You're describing two separate problems here.  One is an error in the 
open statement, and the other is "something is garbled."


If you hand a relative path name to the open() function, it'll have to 
get the absolute path from somewhere else, presumably the current 
directory.  Do you know for sure what the current directory is, and is 
that file located there?  Try printing  os.path.abspath(os.curdir).   Or 
pass a complete (absolute) path to open().

As for garbled...   Just what do you expect?  A binary file is a 
completely arbitrary sequence of bytes.  So if you're trying to print 
it, you may see "garbled."  Just what is the file's purpose anyway?  You 
can't do much with it without knowing something about it.

DaveA






From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Mon Aug 24 14:35:45 2009
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:35:45 +0100
Subject: Python memory management <-> virtualized server environments
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

gravityzoo-dmo wrote:
> Hello everyone,
> 
> I was wondering if anyone here has had any experience in running
> Python in a virtualized server environment?
> The reason I'm asking is the recent thing I noticed when running my
> server application (written in Python + Twisted);
> The memory of the server application seems to only grow, and not give
> back memory space to the OS. I realize that this won't be a problem on
> a single physical server, but I'm curious of the effect this behaviour
> has on a virtualized environment.
> Could anyone provide me with a little more insight please?
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> Dirk

Might help if you say which version of Python you are running, although 
I'm not a memory expert I do know there have been some changes between 
the versions.

-- 
MPH
http://blog.dcuktec.com
'If consumed, best digested with added seasoning to own preference.'


From bbxx789_05ss at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 24 14:45:17 2009
From: bbxx789_05ss at yahoo.com (7stud)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 11:45:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: print() and unicode strings (python 3.1)
References: <4eda8137-7db9-4c39-a2c1-3477b071f7f6@x5g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<4a92b83b$0$27209$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	
	<4a92d9b0$0$32667$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <00daf8f6-ee6a-47ab-8d92-1676a473d7cc@y4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 24, 12:19?pm, Stefan Behnel  wrote:
> 7stud wrote:
> > python 3.1 won't let me
> > explicitly encode my unicode string
>
> Sure it does. But encoding a non-ASCII string to ASCII will necessarily fail.
>

As you should be able to see in the python 3.1 example I posted, I did
not encode the string using the ascii codec.  I encoded it with the
utf-8 codec, and unfortunately in python 3.1 that creates a "bytes
string", and print()'ing a bytes string does not produce human
readable text.


> > and python 3.1 implicitly does
> > the encoding with the wrong codec.
>
> That's not a Python problem, though. Your terminal is configured for
> US-ASCII, so you can't output anything but US-ASCII characters.
>

My terminal is configured for utf-8, and from the output of the python
2.6 example I posted, it should be apparent that my terminal is
capable of rendering the euro character.





From gert.cuykens at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 14:50:55 2009
From: gert.cuykens at gmail.com (gert)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 11:50:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How does the file.seek() work ?
Message-ID: <2feaaf6c-d723-4843-a9e5-271d00187180@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

I want the file pointer set to 100 and overwrite everything from there

curl -C 100 -T upload2.wsgi http://192.168.2.17/appwsgi/wsgi/upload2.wsgi
-v

w+ overwrites my file completely
r+ overwrites nothing
a+ only makes my file bigger

import os

def application(environ, response):
    query=os.path.join(os.path.dirname(__file__),'teeeeeeeeeemp')
    range=environ.get('HTTP_RANGE','bytes=0-').replace
('bytes=','').split(',')
    offset=[]
    for r in range: offset.append(r.split('-'))
    with open(query,'w+') as f:
         f.seek(int(offset[0][0]))
         while True:
             chunk=environ['wsgi.input'].read(8192).decode('latin1')
             if not chunk: break
             f.write(chunk)
    f=open(query)
    l=str(os.fstat(f.fileno()).st_size)
    response('200 OK', [('Content-Type', 'text/plain'), ('Content-
Length', str(len(l)))])
    return [l]

also why must I open the file a second time to know how big it is ?




From nmm1 at cam.ac.uk  Mon Aug 24 14:55:38 2009
From: nmm1 at cam.ac.uk (nmm1 at cam.ac.uk)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:55:38 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
	
	<760c8bce-c634-4af1-a829-efa8c2d5ed29@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	<1j4y84p.v5docbtueccmN%nospam@see.signature>
Message-ID: 

In article <1j4y84p.v5docbtueccmN%nospam at see.signature>,
Richard Maine  wrote:
>
>Only character strings of length 1 are interoperable, as the term
>"interoperable" is defined in the Fortran standard. However, that does
>not mean that only character strings of length 1 will work with C. The
>distinction might be picky, but it is important.

Precisely.  And the kludge does NOT work under all circumstances,
which is why I said that it doesn't work very well.

Consider, for example:

    SUBROUTINE Fred (X) BIND(C)
    CHARACTER*(*) :: X
    END SUBROUTINE Fred

    CHARACTER(LEN=100) :: string
    CALL Fred(string(40:60))
    CALL Fred(string(5:50))

This is not currently allowed and raises all sorts of 'interesting'
implementation and portability questions.  For example, I defy anyone
to write Fred portably in C :-)

It gets really hairy if you have functions that have assumed length
results, but those are obsolescent.

Even when Fred has an explicit length, there are some problematic
cases, which could catch out programmers in one language that don't
know the other fairly well.  But those are much less of a problem
than the common need for assumed length CHARACTER arguments.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Mon Aug 24 15:14:26 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 12:14:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
	 
	<760c8bce-c634-4af1-a829-efa8c2d5ed29@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com> 
	<1j4y84p.v5docbtueccmN%nospam@see.signature>
	
Message-ID: <7abee4bb-b18a-4680-817b-7e76aed40194@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On 24 Aug, 20:55, n... at cam.ac.uk wrote:

> Precisely. ?And the kludge does NOT work under all circumstances,
> which is why I said that it doesn't work very well.

Do you have an example?


> Consider, for example:
>
> ? ? SUBROUTINE Fred (X) BIND(C)
> ? ? CHARACTER*(*) :: X
> ? ? END SUBROUTINE Fred


Obviously that is not allowed, because C does not know anything about
Fortran strings. How should a C compiler pass the correct data
structure to Fred?

The C bindings in Fortran 2003 has functions to convert C pointers to
Fortran pointers (c_f_pointer, c_f_procpointer), because C does not
know the ABI of a particular Fortran implementation.






From http  Mon Aug 24 15:17:39 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 24 Aug 2009 12:17:39 -0700
Subject: your favorite debugging tool?
References: 
Message-ID: <7xocq5vx64.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Esmail  writes:
> What is your favorite tool to help you debug your
> code? I've been getting along with 'print' statements
> but that is getting old and somewhat cumbersome.

Beyond print statements, I use pdb a lot.  Winpdb (www.winpdb.org) is
even better, but is kind of cumbersome to get working.


From gah at ugcs.caltech.edu  Mon Aug 24 15:23:53 2009
From: gah at ugcs.caltech.edu (glen herrmannsfeldt)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:23:53 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
	
	<760c8bce-c634-4af1-a829-efa8c2d5ed29@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	<1j4y84p.v5docbtueccmN%nospam@see.signature>
	
Message-ID: 

In comp.lang.fortran nmm1 at cam.ac.uk wrote:
(snip)
 
< Precisely.  And the kludge does NOT work under all circumstances,
< which is why I said that it doesn't work very well.
 
< Consider, for example:
 
<    SUBROUTINE Fred (X) BIND(C)
<    CHARACTER*(*) :: X
<    END SUBROUTINE Fred
 
<    CHARACTER(LEN=100) :: string
<    CALL Fred(string(40:60))
<    CALL Fred(string(5:50))
 
< This is not currently allowed and raises all sorts of 'interesting'
< implementation and portability questions.  For example, I defy anyone
< to write Fred portably in C :-)

You mean, how does FRED know the length?  It seems to me the
usual question for Fortran assumed size arrays.  Assuming that
FRED can tell from the passed string, it seems fine to me.
If not, it is a problem.  

Null terminated strings are a C convention, supported by
the library and compiler (string constants).  Others are legal C,
though you have to be careful which library routines you use.
 
< It gets really hairy if you have functions that have assumed length
< results, but those are obsolescent.
 
< Even when Fred has an explicit length, there are some problematic
< cases, which could catch out programmers in one language that don't
< know the other fairly well.  But those are much less of a problem
< than the common need for assumed length CHARACTER arguments.

Maybe Fortran programmers who started in Fortran 66 will not
have so much problem with this.  The usual way would be to
pass the length, as with assumed size arrays.  I believe terminating
strings with unusual (likely not null) characters was also done.

-- glen


From nmm1 at cam.ac.uk  Mon Aug 24 15:24:35 2009
From: nmm1 at cam.ac.uk (nmm1 at cam.ac.uk)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 20:24:35 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
	<1j4y84p.v5docbtueccmN%nospam@see.signature>
	
	<7abee4bb-b18a-4680-817b-7e76aed40194@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

In article <7abee4bb-b18a-4680-817b-7e76aed40194 at c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>,
sturlamolden   wrote:
>
>> Precisely. =A0And the kludge does NOT work under all circumstances,
>> which is why I said that it doesn't work very well.
>
>Do you have an example?

I gave you one.  Also see below.

>> Consider, for example:
>>
>> =A0 =A0 SUBROUTINE Fred (X) BIND(C)
>> =A0 =A0 CHARACTER*(*) :: X
>> =A0 =A0 END SUBROUTINE Fred
>
>Obviously that is not allowed, because C does not know anything about
>Fortran strings. How should a C compiler pass the correct data
>structure to Fred?

Precisely.  The reason I asked that question is that it would be
possible to extend the standard to make it possible in a portable
fashion.

You might also like to consider the converse problem: how to write
a Fortran function that takes a C string of arbitrary length and
uses it.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Mon Aug 24 15:37:00 2009
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:37:00 -0500
Subject: How does the file.seek() work ?
In-Reply-To: <2feaaf6c-d723-4843-a9e5-271d00187180@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <2feaaf6c-d723-4843-a9e5-271d00187180@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A92EBDC.8010901@tim.thechases.com>

> I want the file pointer set to 100 and overwrite everything from there
[snip]
> def application(environ, response):
>     query=os.path.join(os.path.dirname(__file__),'teeeeeeeeeemp')
>     range=environ.get('HTTP_RANGE','bytes=0-').replace
> ('bytes=','').split(',')
>     offset=[]
>     for r in range: offset.append(r.split('-'))
>     with open(query,'w+') as f:
>          f.seek(int(offset[0][0]))
>          while True:
>              chunk=environ['wsgi.input'].read(8192).decode('latin1')
>              if not chunk: break
>              f.write(chunk)
>     f=open(query)
>     l=str(os.fstat(f.fileno()).st_size)
>     response('200 OK', [('Content-Type', 'text/plain'), ('Content-
> Length', str(len(l)))])
>     return [l]

A couple items of note:

- you don't open the file in binary mode -- seek is more reliable 
in binary mode :)

- if you want to lop off the rest of the file, use f.truncate()

An example:

# create the initial file
 >>> f = file('zzz.zzz', 'wb+')
 >>> f.write('abcdefghijklmnop')
 >>> f.close()

 >>> f = file('zzz.zzz', 'ab+')
 >>> f.read() # show the existing content
'abcdefghijklmnop'
 >>> f.seek(5) # seek to the desired offset
 >>> f.truncate() # throw away everything after here
 >>> f.write('zyx') # write the new data at pos=5
 >>> f.close()

# demonstrate that it worked
 >>> f = file('zzz.zzz', 'rb')
 >>> f.read()
'abcdezyx'
 >>> f.close()

> also why must I open the file a second time to know how big it is ?

Likely the output has been buffered.  You can try using

   f.flush() # write all the data to the disk first
   size = os.fstat(f.fileno()).st_size

which seems to do the trick for me.

-tkc










From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Mon Aug 24 15:40:14 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:40:14 -0300
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: 
	<0018e1a0$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<20090823031901.GX20434@dragontoe.org>
	
	<87fxbifzb7.fsf@golux.woodcraft.me.uk>
	
	<0b380152-efb5-4cee-b75e-28ff59e095fd@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<02a2b7f1$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<20090824174024.GF20434@dragontoe.org>
Message-ID: 

En Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:40:24 -0300, Derek Martin   
escribi?:

> Why is it so hard for you to accept that intelligent people can
> disagree with you, and that what's right for you might be bad for
> others?

Ask the same question yourself please.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From gordon at panix.com  Mon Aug 24 15:41:17 2009
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:41:17 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Web Services examples using "raw" xml?
Message-ID: 

I'm developing a program that will use web services, which I have never
used before.

There are several tutorials out there that advise you to get the WSDL
and then call a method (such as wsdl2py) that inspects the wsdl and
automagically generates the python classes and methods you need for
interacting with that web service.

I've tried this, and have run into a number of roadblocks that have left
me frustrated.

For example I tried wsdl2py() from the ZSI package, and got this error:

Error loading services.xml:
    namespace of schema and import match

I tried WSDL.Proxy() from the SOAPpy package and eventually end up
with this error:

xml.parsers.expat.ExpatError: not well-formed (invalid token): line 1, column 6

I tried Client() from the suds package, and got this error:

  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/suds/client.py", line 59
    @classmethod
    ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

I'm not an expert; I have no idea what any of these errors mean, and I
have no idea how to go about resolving them.

So I decided to take a step back and see if I could bypass all the fancy
automagic methods and just create my own SOAP xml message from scratch
and then send it to the web server.  That would work, surely.

But I'm having a tough time finding some good examples of that, because
all the tutorials I've found just tell you to use the aforementioned
magic methods, which unfortunately don;t seem to be working for me.

Does anyone have some good examples of code that builds a "raw" xml SOAP
message and sends it to a webserver, then reads the response?  I think
that would be a good place for me to start.

Thanks for any replies.

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From gert.cuykens at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 15:41:59 2009
From: gert.cuykens at gmail.com (gert)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 12:41:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How does the file.seek() work ?
References: <2feaaf6c-d723-4843-a9e5-271d00187180@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <6a22c4d5-1f6b-4ebf-9f4e-3f039d213a49@r42g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 24, 9:37?pm, Tim Chase  wrote:
> > I want the file pointer set to 100 and overwrite everything from there
> [snip]
> > def application(environ, response):
> > ? ? query=os.path.join(os.path.dirname(__file__),'teeeeeeeeeemp')
> > ? ? range=environ.get('HTTP_RANGE','bytes=0-').replace
> > ('bytes=','').split(',')
> > ? ? offset=[]
> > ? ? for r in range: offset.append(r.split('-'))
> > ? ? with open(query,'w+') as f:
> > ? ? ? ? ?f.seek(int(offset[0][0]))
> > ? ? ? ? ?while True:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?chunk=environ['wsgi.input'].read(8192).decode('latin1')
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?if not chunk: break
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?f.write(chunk)
> > ? ? f=open(query)
> > ? ? l=str(os.fstat(f.fileno()).st_size)
> > ? ? response('200 OK', [('Content-Type', 'text/plain'), ('Content-
> > Length', str(len(l)))])
> > ? ? return [l]
>
> A couple items of note:
>
> - you don't open the file in binary mode -- seek is more reliable
> in binary mode :)
>
> - if you want to lop off the rest of the file, use f.truncate()
>
> An example:
>
> # create the initial file
> ?>>> f = file('zzz.zzz', 'wb+')
> ?>>> f.write('abcdefghijklmnop')
> ?>>> f.close()
>
> ?>>> f = file('zzz.zzz', 'ab+')
> ?>>> f.read() # show the existing content
> 'abcdefghijklmnop'
> ?>>> f.seek(5) # seek to the desired offset
> ?>>> f.truncate() # throw away everything after here
> ?>>> f.write('zyx') # write the new data at pos=5
> ?>>> f.close()
>
> # demonstrate that it worked
> ?>>> f = file('zzz.zzz', 'rb')
> ?>>> f.read()
> 'abcdezyx'
> ?>>> f.close()
>
> > also why must I open the file a second time to know how big it is ?
>
> Likely the output has been buffered. ?You can try using
>
> ? ?f.flush() # write all the data to the disk first
> ? ?size = os.fstat(f.fileno()).st_size
>
> which seems to do the trick for me.
>
> -tkc

Doh! my curl was wrong, thanks :)

curl -C 100 upload2.wsgi http://192.168.2.17/appwsgi/wsgi/upload2.wsgi
-v


From nagle at animats.com  Mon Aug 24 15:51:55 2009
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 12:51:55 -0700
Subject: Web Services examples using "raw" xml?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4a92ee38$0$1627$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

John Gordon wrote:
> I'm developing a program that will use web services, which I have never
> used before.

    Web services in general, or some Microsoft interface?

				John Nagle


From nmm1 at cam.ac.uk  Mon Aug 24 15:54:38 2009
From: nmm1 at cam.ac.uk (nmm1 at cam.ac.uk)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 20:54:38 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
	<1j4y84p.v5docbtueccmN%nospam@see.signature>
	
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
glen herrmannsfeldt   wrote:
> 
>< Consider, for example:
> 
><    SUBROUTINE Fred (X) BIND(C)
><    CHARACTER*(*) :: X
><    END SUBROUTINE Fred
> 
><    CHARACTER(LEN=100) :: string
><    CALL Fred(string(40:60))
><    CALL Fred(string(5:50))
> 
>< This is not currently allowed and raises all sorts of 'interesting'
>< implementation and portability questions.  For example, I defy anyone
>< to write Fred portably in C :-)
>
>You mean, how does FRED know the length?  It seems to me the
>usual question for Fortran assumed size arrays.  Assuming that
>FRED can tell from the passed string, it seems fine to me.
>If not, it is a problem.  

Precisely.  And the whole point of my question is how many people
WANT to do it, from the point of view of extending BIND(C).

>< Even when Fred has an explicit length, there are some problematic
>< cases, which could catch out programmers in one language that don't
>< know the other fairly well.  But those are much less of a problem
>< than the common need for assumed length CHARACTER arguments.
>
>Maybe Fortran programmers who started in Fortran 66 will not
>have so much problem with this.  The usual way would be to
>pass the length, as with assumed size arrays.  I believe terminating
>strings with unusual (likely not null) characters was also done.

Yeah.  But there are a decreasing number of us left :-)

Prefix length strings were also used.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.


From jkpeck at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 15:55:31 2009
From: jkpeck at gmail.com (JKPeck)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 12:55:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: csv module and None values
References: 
Message-ID: <040ec55a-5b14-41c4-8099-683a6d3a0a45@n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 24, 11:30?am, JKPeck  wrote:
> I'm trying to get the csv module (Python 2.6) to write data records
> like Excel. ?The excel dialect isn't doing it. ?The problem is in
> writing None values. ?I want them to result in just sequential commas
> - ,, but csv treats None specially, as the doc says,
>
> "To make it as easy as possible to interface with modules which
> implement the DB API, the value None is written as the empty string."
>
> I need strings to be quoted but not None values. ?Is there any way to
> get around this special None treatment?
>
> TIA,
> Jon Peck

Solved the problem myself by giving a writer class to csv.writer that
looks for sentinel markers inserted in place of None and wipes them
out before writing to a file.  Pretty ugly, but it works.

Regards,
Jon Peck


From gordon at panix.com  Mon Aug 24 15:57:06 2009
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:57:06 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Web Services examples using "raw" xml?
References: 
	<4a92ee38$0$1627$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: 

In <4a92ee38$0$1627$742ec2ed at news.sonic.net> John Nagle  writes:

> John Gordon wrote:
> > I'm developing a program that will use web services, which I have never
> > used before.

>     Web services in general, or some Microsoft interface?

Microsoft.  Exchange Web Services, specifically.

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Mon Aug 24 16:03:06 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 13:03:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
	<1j4y84p.v5docbtueccmN%nospam@see.signature> 
	
	<7abee4bb-b18a-4680-817b-7e76aed40194@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On 24 Aug, 21:24, n... at cam.ac.uk wrote:

> You might also like to consider the converse problem: how to write
> a Fortran function that takes a C string of arbitrary length and
> uses it.

That's what the code I showed you does.



From code at pizzashack.org  Mon Aug 24 16:14:24 2009
From: code at pizzashack.org (Derek Martin)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:14:24 -0500
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: 
References: <0018e1a0$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<20090823031901.GX20434@dragontoe.org>
	
	<87fxbifzb7.fsf@golux.woodcraft.me.uk>
	
	<0b380152-efb5-4cee-b75e-28ff59e095fd@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<02a2b7f1$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<20090824174024.GF20434@dragontoe.org>
	
Message-ID: <20090824201424.GG20434@dragontoe.org>

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 04:40:14PM -0300, Gabriel Genellina wrote:
> En Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:40:24 -0300, Derek Martin
>  escribi?:
> 
> >Why is it so hard for you to accept that intelligent people can
> >disagree with you, and that what's right for you might be bad for
> >others?
> 
> Ask the same question yourself please.

I accept it.  But I reserve the right to voice my dissent, and am
doing so.  The Usual Suspects in this forum seem to suggest that the
change is some silver bullet that makes Python suddenly Right With The
World, and I say it just ain't so.  I happen to opine that the old
behavior was better, and I will not be dissuaded from that opinion
just because a few prominent posters in this forum suggest that I'm an
idiot for disagreeing with them.

My original post in this thread, if you weren't paying attention, was
in opposition to several people trying to cram the idea down the
throats of other posters that leading zeros to represent octal numbers 
is inherently evil, and that anyone who suggests otherwise is an
Apostate to be damned for all eternity.  

Alright, I exaggerate.  Slightly. :)  

-- 
Derek D. Martin
http://www.pizzashack.org/
GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D

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From vorticitywolfe at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 16:29:07 2009
From: vorticitywolfe at gmail.com (J Wolfe)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 13:29:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Pmw optionmenu color
Message-ID: <0faab022-2ad1-4579-a5b9-54f93591c953@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

It seems like this should be easy to do... change the background color
of the Pmw optionmenu.  I have not been able to find this. Anyone have
a hint or know how to do this?

Thanks,
Jonathan


From ryniek90 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 16:34:51 2009
From: ryniek90 at gmail.com (ryniek)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 13:34:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Temat:, Re: IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename: 
	in windows xp while making tarfile
References:  
	<4A928B4B.9030502@gmail.com> <4A92A57A.5010105@dejaviewphoto.com> 
	
	<4ec18c68-b8b5-401e-b910-802b7662dced@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <321b8396-0806-4a1a-9a32-efbb147e6b4b@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On 24 Sie, 16:56, John Machin  wrote:
> On Aug 25, 12:46?am, Tim Golden  wrote:
>
> > Dave Angel wrote:
> > > You still haven't gotten rid of those illegal colons in the filename. ?
> > > They're not legal in Windows, as has been pointed out a couple of times
> > > in this thread.
>
> > Ummm.. Colons are of course legal in Windows filenames as designating
>
> That is the most inappropriate "of course" I've seen for quite a
> while.
>
> > the Alternate Data Streams:
>
> OK, so s/illegal/evil/


Ok, but how to get rid of those colons?
Is it necessary?


From deets at nospam.web.de  Mon Aug 24 16:36:54 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 22:36:54 +0200
Subject: Web Services examples using "raw" xml?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7fgbv7F2l9u4oU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

John Gordon schrieb:
> I'm developing a program that will use web services, which I have never
> used before.
> 
> There are several tutorials out there that advise you to get the WSDL
> and then call a method (such as wsdl2py) that inspects the wsdl and
> automagically generates the python classes and methods you need for
> interacting with that web service.
> 
> I've tried this, and have run into a number of roadblocks that have left
> me frustrated.

Welcome to the wonderful world of SOAP. If you didn't know - the S 
stands for simple [1].

I don't want to go into a rant about the why and how SOAP sucks, and why 
it's support in Python is lacking - to say the least.

What we did in a similar situation was this:

  - got hold of a client that was able to speak with the server. In your 
case, a .NET-client shouldn't be hard to get working.
  - monitor the traffic that went on between the client and server using 
some HTTP-proxy or WireShark.
  - mimicked the server-side protocol by dynamising the sniffed traffic 
through an XML-templating tool, genshi in our case.

Sounds archaic, and complicated? Yes. Blame SOAP (and Microsoft, it's 
biggest proponent)


Diez


[1] http://72.249.21.88/nonintersecting/2006/11/15/the-s-stands-for-simple/


From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Aug 24 16:41:37 2009
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 22:41:37 +0200
Subject: print() and unicode strings (python 3.1)
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4eda8137-7db9-4c39-a2c1-3477b071f7f6@x5g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<4a92b83b$0$27209$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	
Message-ID: <4a92fb02$0$2582$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

> I can't figure out a way to programatically set the encoding for
> sys.stdout.  So where does that leave me?

You should be setting the terminal encoding administratively, not
programmatically.

Regards,
Martin


From not_valid at comcast.net  Mon Aug 24 16:55:19 2009
From: not_valid at comcast.net (James Van Buskirk)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:55:19 -0600
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
	
	
	
	<1j4ww90.pvvxweehycu0N%nospam@see.signature>
	<5134d9f1-0e23-4e05-a817-bf0cc9e85d3e@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
	<760c8bce-c634-4af1-a829-efa8c2d5ed29@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	<1j4y84p.v5docbtueccmN%nospam@see.signature>
Message-ID: 

"Richard Maine"  wrote in message 
news:1j4y84p.v5docbtueccmN%nospam at see.signature...

> There might be a confusion here (and I'm not even sure on whose part) on
> a picky but important detail of wording. I have seen multiple people
> confused by this one before. In fact, some potential confusion was
> forseen, which is why there are notes specifically about it in the
> Fortran standard (see below). Those notes do tend to get overlooked
> though.

> Only character strings of length 1 are interoperable, as the term
> "interoperable" is defined in the Fortran standard. However, that does
> not mean that only character strings of length 1 will work with C. The
> distinction might be picky, but it is important.

> See Note 15.19 (which in turn cites an example in Note 15.23) of f2003.
> You can pass a Fortran string of length n as an actual argument
> corrseponding to a dummy argument that is an array of n character*1
> elements. This isn't considered a question of "interoperability", as it
> is a feature purely within Fortran, but it does impact on what kinds of
> things work.

> One might plausibly regard this as a kludge, but it is a kludge that is
> part of the Fortran standard and is guaranteed to work with all Fortran
> compilers. I almost said all f2003-compliant compilers (admittedly a
> limited set), but then I recalled that the feature actually dates back
> to f77 when character type was introduced; f2003 just extends it to the
> C character kind for the obscure case where the C character kind might
> be different from the default character kind (I don't know of any
> compilers where this is so, but the standard allows for it).

No, this is a tricky point.  It was allowed in f77 to pass an array
actual argument to a scalar character dummy argument, but the ability
to pass a scalar character actual argument to an array dummy argument
is new to the sequence association rules of f2003.  So your first
impression was more accurate than the result of thoughtful reflection :)

-- 
write(*,*) transfer((/17.392111325966148d0,6.5794487871554595D-85, &
6.0134700243160014d-154/),(/'x'/)); end




From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Aug 24 17:00:44 2009
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:00:44 +0200
Subject: csv module and None values
References: 
Message-ID: 

JKPeck wrote:

> I'm trying to get the csv module (Python 2.6) to write data records
> like Excel.  The excel dialect isn't doing it.  The problem is in
> writing None values.  I want them to result in just sequential commas
> - ,, but csv treats None specially, as the doc says,
> 
> "To make it as easy as possible to interface with modules which
> implement the DB API, the value None is written as the empty string."
> 
> I need strings to be quoted but not None values.  Is there any way to
> get around this special None treatment?

If I understand you correctly the csv.writer already does what you want:

Python 2.6.2 (release26-maint, Apr 19 2009, 01:58:18)
[GCC 4.3.3] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import csv, sys
>>> w = csv.writer(sys.stdout)
>>> w.writerow([1,None,2])
1,,2

just sequential commas, but that is the special treatment. Without it the 
the None value would be converted to a string and the line would look like 
this one:

>>> class LooksLikeNone:
...     def __str__(self): return "None"
...
>>> w.writerow([1,LooksLikeNone(),2])
1,None,2

Peter



From ryniek90 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 17:23:41 2009
From: ryniek90 at gmail.com (ryniek)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:23:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Temat:, Re: IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename: 
	in windows xp while making tarfile
References:  
	<4A928B4B.9030502@gmail.com> <4A92A57A.5010105@dejaviewphoto.com> 
	
	<4ec18c68-b8b5-401e-b910-802b7662dced@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<321b8396-0806-4a1a-9a32-efbb147e6b4b@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On 24 Sie, 22:34, ryniek  wrote:
> On 24 Sie, 16:56, John Machin  wrote:
>
> > On Aug 25, 12:46?am, Tim Golden  wrote:
>
> > > Dave Angel wrote:
> > > > You still haven't gotten rid of those illegal colons in the filename. ?
> > > > They're not legal in Windows, as has been pointed out a couple of times
> > > > in this thread.
>
> > > Ummm.. Colons are of course legal in Windows filenames as designating
>
> > That is the most inappropriate "of course" I've seen for quite a
> > while.
>
> > > the Alternate Data Streams:
>
> > OK, so s/illegal/evil/
>
> Ok, but how to get rid of those colons?
> Is it necessary?

I dealt with it. Had to change 'w:bz2' into 'w|bz2'.

But now have another problem:
"
C:\Users\Ryniek's WinSe7en\Documents\My Dropbox\Aplikacje
\Moje_aplikacje\Pythonowe_aplikacje\Skrypty>python ba
ckuper.py -f E:\APLIKACJE\nowegg.exe E:\ MyGG
Checking permissions for reading and writing...
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "backuper.py", line 194, in 
    main_meth()
  File "backuper.py", line 186, in main_meth
    paq.backup_file(pars.options.filename[0], pars.options.filename
[1], pars.options.filename[2])
  File "backuper.py", line 114, in backup_file
    backup_obj = tarfile.open(dest, 'w|bz2')
  File "E:\WinSe7en Apps\APLIKACJE\ActiveState Python 2.6\lib
\tarfile.py", line 1675, in open
    _Stream(name, filemode, comptype, fileobj, bufsize),
  File "E:\WinSe7en Apps\APLIKACJE\ActiveState Python 2.6\lib
\tarfile.py", line 400, in __init__
    fileobj = _LowLevelFile(name, mode)
  File "E:\WinSe7en Apps\APLIKACJE\ActiveState Python 2.6\lib
\tarfile.py", line 373, in __init__
    self.fd = os.open(name, mode)
OSError: [Errno 22] Invalid argument: 'E:\\MyGG(2009-08-24
23:18:25).tar.bz2'
"

When i type path with foreward slashes, Python converts them to double
backslashes  :P
"
C:\Users\Ryniek's WinSe7en\Documents\My Dropbox\Aplikacje
\Moje_aplikacje\Pythonowe_aplikacje\Skrypty>python backuper.py -f E:/
APLIKACJE/nowegg.exe E:/ MyGG
Checking permissions for reading and writing...
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "backuper.py", line 194, in 
    main_meth()
  File "backuper.py", line 186, in main_meth
    paq.backup_file(pars.options.filename[0], pars.options.filename
[1], pars.options.filename[2])
  File "backuper.py", line 114, in backup_file
    backup_obj = tarfile.open(dest, 'w|bz2')
  File "E:\WinSe7en Apps\APLIKACJE\ActiveState Python 2.6\lib
\tarfile.py", line 1675, in open
    _Stream(name, filemode, comptype, fileobj, bufsize),
  File "E:\WinSe7en Apps\APLIKACJE\ActiveState Python 2.6\lib
\tarfile.py", line 400, in __init__
    fileobj = _LowLevelFile(name, mode)
  File "E:\WinSe7en Apps\APLIKACJE\ActiveState Python 2.6\lib
\tarfile.py", line 373, in __init__
    self.fd = os.open(name, mode)
OSError: [Errno 22] Invalid argument: 'E:\\MyGG(2009-08-24
23:20:19).tar.bz2'
"

I tried raw string also, but nothing helps.   :-/


From van.lindberg at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 17:37:34 2009
From: van.lindberg at gmail.com (VanL)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:37:34 -0500
Subject: Graph library recommendations for large graphs
Message-ID: 

I am working on a project that will require building and querying large 
graph objects (initially 8M nodes, 30-40M edges; eventually 40M nodes, 
100M edges). NetworkX seems to be the most popular, but I am concerned 
that a dict representation for nodes would use too much memory -- my 
initial tests suggest that a graph with 3M nodes and 12M edges creates 
substantial memory pressure on my machine.

Can anybody who has worked with large graphs before give a recommendation?

Thanks,

Van



From nospam at see.signature  Mon Aug 24 17:39:32 2009
From: nospam at see.signature (Richard Maine)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:39:32 -0700
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
	
	
	
	<1j4ww90.pvvxweehycu0N%nospam@see.signature>
	<5134d9f1-0e23-4e05-a817-bf0cc9e85d3e@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
	<760c8bce-c634-4af1-a829-efa8c2d5ed29@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	<1j4y84p.v5docbtueccmN%nospam@see.signature>
	
Message-ID: <1j4yiym.1jxu2ko10c7zucN%nospam@see.signature>

James Van Buskirk  wrote:

> "Richard Maine"  wrote in message 
> news:1j4y84p.v5docbtueccmN%nospam at see.signature...
> 

> > One might plausibly regard this as a kludge, but it is a kludge that is
> > part of the Fortran standard and is guaranteed to work with all Fortran
> > compilers. I almost said all f2003-compliant compilers (admittedly a
> > limited set), but then I recalled that the feature actually dates back
> > to f77 when character type was introduced; f2003 just extends it to the
> > C character kind for the obscure case where the C character kind might
> > be different from the default character kind (I don't know of any
> > compilers where this is so, but the standard allows for it).
> 
> No, this is a tricky point.  It was allowed in f77 to pass an array
> actual argument to a scalar character dummy argument, but the ability
> to pass a scalar character actual argument to an array dummy argument
> is new to the sequence association rules of f2003.  So your first
> impression was more accurate than the result of thoughtful reflection :)

Ah. You might be right - probably you are. I know there is some closely
related stuff that goes back a ways and was just extended to the C
character kind in f2003, but it might not have been that exact bit. I'm
probably thinking of the rule for sequence association that allows the
character length parameter to differ between the actual and dummy... as
long as you are doing sequence association. But it might be a new rule
that puts the scalar case under sequence association; that's probably
it. Not worth dragging out the standards to check, but I bet that's it.

-- 
Richard Maine                    | Good judgment comes from experience;
email: last name at domain . net | experience comes from bad judgment.
domain: summertriangle           |  -- Mark Twain


From drobinow at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 17:43:41 2009
From: drobinow at gmail.com (David Robinow)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:43:41 -0400
Subject: Reading binary files
In-Reply-To: <9c8c445f0908240950h24e5bfccoc9ae809c1048be5d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9c8c445f0908240735k6599045dn5ecbd63fa76bfe6e@mail.gmail.com>
	<1251125039.23757.0.camel@brotherus.corp.redhat.com>
	<9c8c445f0908240818k1ae301acr49c65ccb21435cd7@mail.gmail.com>
	<9c8c445f0908240950h24e5bfccoc9ae809c1048be5d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4eb0089f0908241443p348eea3dxd57581e37f94d0bd@mail.gmail.com>

>> This works for a simple binary file, but the actual file I'm trying to
>> read is give throwing an error that the file cannot be found. Here is the
>> name of the my file:
>> 2009.08.02_06.52.00_WA-1_0001_00_0662_0.jstars
>>
>> Should python have trouble reading this file name or extension?
>
> I'm having trouble with the filename:
> 2009.08.02_06.52.00_WA-1_0001_00_0662_0.jstars
>
> It throws an error with that file name, When I change it to something like
> sample.txt it runs, but the data is still garbled. Is there any reason why I
> can't use the above file name? If I'm using 'rb' to read the binary file why
> is it still garbled?
 I don't think it's garbled. It's a binary file. What do you expect?

It's been over ten years since I've worked with any JSTARS stuff so I
can't give you any details but you almost certainly have some sort of
imagery. The military has a lot of bizarre formats and whoever sent
you the data should have included a data sheet describing the format
(or a pointer to such).  Ideally, you'll also get a pointer to code to
read the thing, but sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and
write a program to process the file.
   (If all else fails, look at a dump of the first 512 bytes or so;
often the image size is included at the beginning; maybe in ASCII, 16
bit ints, 32 bit ints, floating point -- who knows)
There've been times when I had to just display the thing at 512 or
1024 bytes (or ints) per row and try to surmise the info from that.
So, look for the file description.
...
Googling a bit:   I see there's a package at
   http://www.mbari.org/data/mbsystem/index.html
which purports to handle some JSTARS stuff. I've no idea if that will help you.


From pavpanchekha at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 18:07:54 2009
From: pavpanchekha at gmail.com (Pavel Panchekha)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:07:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Distutils evil voodoo: install into a package
Message-ID: <824505df-5534-423e-b72c-06d0f62b376b@p15g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

Before you flame me, I know that what I'm trying to do is beyond evil.
But I nonetheless want to do it. Feel free to rant if you must. :)

I have a package that I want to install into another package. For
example, I have the packages pya and pyb.
pya is guaranteed to be installed before pyb is, so that's not an
issue. pya is installed as the module `pya`. I want to install pyb
into the module `pya.pyb`.

Is there any way to do this beyond figuring out what the path is and
installing the entire pyb directory as data_files?


From deets at nospam.web.de  Mon Aug 24 18:21:05 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 00:21:05 +0200
Subject: Graph library recommendations for large graphs
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7fgi2iF2juk72U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

VanL schrieb:
> I am working on a project that will require building and querying large 
> graph objects (initially 8M nodes, 30-40M edges; eventually 40M nodes, 
> 100M edges). NetworkX seems to be the most popular, but I am concerned 
> that a dict representation for nodes would use too much memory -- my 
> initial tests suggest that a graph with 3M nodes and 12M edges creates 
> substantial memory pressure on my machine.
> 
> Can anybody who has worked with large graphs before give a recommendation?

My initial tests show otherwise. The below test-script creates 3 million 
nodes with 12 million adjacencies, on my 2GB Notebook.

The theoretical limit for this (if we assume pointer-based 
adjacency-references which makes sense if we have sparse graphs as your 
numbers indicate) is (32 bits assumed):

  - 8 bytes per node (4 byte pointer to adjacency list, 4 byte int for 
counting the number of adjacencies in that list)
  - 4 bytes per adjacency

This is 60.000.000 for your example - roughly 60MB. On my machine, the 
process has 320.000.000MB - (roughly) a factor five. Given the much 
richer properties a Python-object (and python-lists) have thas is pretty 
good I'd say.

So for your eventual size of 40M nodes, 100M edges, we have a 
theoretical amount of 560MB, times 5 makes 2.5 GB. Not exactly a low 
memory profile, but manageable on modern hardware.

I don't know anything about NetworkX - it still might be the better 
solution, given the underlying C-based algorithms. But if all you need 
is to represent a graph of that size, it appears to be working.


---- test.py ----

import random
import gc
import time

class Node(object):

     __slots__ = ["adjacencies", "value", "id"]

     def __init__(self, id):
         id = id
         value = random.random()
         self.adjacencies = []


nodes = []

gc.disable()
nc = 3000000

for i in xrange(nc):
     nodes.append(Node(i))
     if (i % 1000) == 0:
         print i

for i in xrange(12000000):
     a = random.randint(0, nc - 1)
     b = random.randint(0, nc - 1)
     while a == b:
         b = random.randint(0, nc)
     nodes[a].adjacencies.append(nodes[b])
     if (i % 1000) == 0:
         print "e", i


gc.enable()
while True:
     time.sleep(1)
     traversed = set()
     def depth_search(node, depth=0):
         traversed.add(node)
         if depth == 4:
             return
         for child in node.adjacencies:
             if child not in traversed:
                 depth_search(child, depth+1)

     depth_search(nodes[random.randint(0, nc - 1)])

------


Diez


From deets at nospam.web.de  Mon Aug 24 18:22:48 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 00:22:48 +0200
Subject: Distutils evil voodoo: install into a package
In-Reply-To: <824505df-5534-423e-b72c-06d0f62b376b@p15g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: <824505df-5534-423e-b72c-06d0f62b376b@p15g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7fgi5oF2juk72U2@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Pavel Panchekha schrieb:
> Before you flame me, I know that what I'm trying to do is beyond evil.
> But I nonetheless want to do it. Feel free to rant if you must. :)
> 
> I have a package that I want to install into another package. For
> example, I have the packages pya and pyb.
> pya is guaranteed to be installed before pyb is, so that's not an
> issue. pya is installed as the module `pya`. I want to install pyb
> into the module `pya.pyb`.
> 
> Is there any way to do this beyond figuring out what the path is and
> installing the entire pyb directory as data_files?

This is what whe world has created namespace-packages for. At least if 
you can live with the namespace "pya" being otherwise empty.

Pray tell - what is your usecase?

Diez


From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Mon Aug 24 18:46:25 2009
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (Bearophile)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:46:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Graph library recommendations for large graphs
References: 
Message-ID: 

You may try the Python bindings for the Boost Graph Library, the graph
you talk about may fit in 2GB of a 32 bit OS too (this is the first
link I have found, it's a lot of time I don't use those graph
bindings):
http://banyan.usc.edu/log/c_cpp/boost-graph-library-python-bindings

Bye,
bearophile


From james.harris.1 at googlemail.com  Mon Aug 24 19:23:06 2009
From: james.harris.1 at googlemail.com (James Harris)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:23:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
References:  
	
	 
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com> 
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
	
	
	<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com> 
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

On 24 Aug, 14:05, Mel  wrote:
> James Harris wrote:
> > On 24 Aug, 02:19, Max Erickson  wrote:

> [ ... ]
> >> >>> int('100', 3)
> >> 9
> >> >>> int('100', 36)
> >> 1296
>
> > This is fine typed into the language directly but couldn't be entered
> > by the user or read-in from or written to a file.
>
> That's rather beside the point. ?Literals don't essentially come from files
> or user input. ?Essentially literals are a subset of expressions, just like
> function calls are, and they have to be evaluated by Python to yield a
> value. ?I'm not averse to 32'rst', but we already have

...

> >>> int ('rst', 32)
>
> 28573

Sure but while I wouldn't normally want to type something as obscure
as 32"rst" into a file of data I might want to type 0xff00 or similar.
That is far clearer than 65280 in some cases.

My point was that int('ff00', 16) is OK for the programmer but cannot
be used generally as it includes a function call.

James


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Mon Aug 24 19:26:38 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 01:26:38 +0200
Subject: basic thread question
References: <20090818201015.GP20434@dragontoe.org>
	
	<4a922086$0$1619$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	
	
	
	<4224e772-5b67-4eea-9bdf-a7d2bf7cc128@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

>>>>> sturlamolden  (s) wrote:

>s> On 24 Aug, 13:21, Piet van Oostrum  wrote:
>>> But os.fork() is not available on Windows. And I guess refcounts et al.
>>> will soon destroy the sharing.

>s> Well, there is os.fork in Cygwin and SUA (SUA is the Unix subsytem in
>s> Windows Vista Professional). Cygwin's fork is a bit sluggish.

That's because it doesn't use copy-on-write. Thereby losing most of its
advantages. I don't know SUA, but I have vaguely heard about it.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From istvan.albert at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 19:54:43 2009
From: istvan.albert at gmail.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:54:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Graph library recommendations for large graphs
References: 
Message-ID: <1ea9e905-e758-4c83-917b-862b63fdc8fb@p36g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 24, 5:37?pm, VanL  wrote:
>
> Can anybody who has worked with large graphs before give a recommendation?
>

when using large graphs another limitation may come from the various
graph algorithm run times. Most likely you will need to squeeze out as
much as possible and a python implementation has a lot of overhead.

I've used the LEDA graph library with great success. This is a C++
library with substantial syntax sugar that looks a bit like python
(and I made some python bindings for it via SWIG and thus got the best
of both worlds, lost the code I'm afraid).

http://www.algorithmic-solutions.info/leda_guide/Graphs.html

i.


From davea at ieee.org  Mon Aug 24 20:09:10 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 20:09:10 -0400
Subject: Temat:, Re: IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename:
	in windows xp while making tarfile
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<4A928B4B.9030502@gmail.com> <4A92A57A.5010105@dejaviewphoto.com>
		<4ec18c68-b8b5-401e-b910-802b7662dced@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>	<321b8396-0806-4a1a-9a32-efbb147e6b4b@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4A932BA6.3090801@ieee.org>

You shouldn't want either a colon or a pipe symbol in the filename 
string (not counting the drive letter prefix).
A single colon gives you surprising behavior, and two will give you 
Invalid Argument.   See inline responses.

ryniek wrote:
> On 24 Sie, 22:34, ryniek  wrote:
>   
>>> 
>>>       
>> Ok, but how to get rid of those colons?
>> Is it necessary?
>>     
>
> I dealt with it. Had to change 'w:bz2' into 'w|bz2'.
>
>   
Looks to me like you're putting a pipe in again (unless that's just an 
artifact of the mail system)
> But now have another problem:
> "
> C:\Users\Ryniek's WinSe7en\Documents\My Dropbox\Aplikacje
> \Moje_aplikacje\Pythonowe_aplikacje\Skrypty>python ba
> ckuper.py -f E:\APLIKACJE\nowegg.exe E:\ MyGG
> Checking permissions for reading and writing...
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "backuper.py", line 194, in 
>     main_meth()
>   File "backuper.py", line 186, in main_meth
>     paq.backup_file(pars.options.filename[0], pars.options.filename
> [1], pars.options.filename[2])
>   File "backuper.py", line 114, in backup_file
>     backup_obj =arfile.open(dest, 'w|bz2')
>   File "E:\WinSe7en Apps\APLIKACJE\ActiveState Python 2.6\lib
> \tarfile.py", line 1675, in open
>     _Stream(name, filemode, comptype, fileobj, bufsize),
>   File "E:\WinSe7en Apps\APLIKACJE\ActiveState Python 2.6\lib
> \tarfile.py", line 400, in __init__
>     fileobj =LowLevelFile(name, mode)
>   File "E:\WinSe7en Apps\APLIKACJE\ActiveState Python 2.6\lib
> \tarfile.py", line 373, in __init__
>     self.fd =s.open(name, mode)
> OSError: [Errno 22] Invalid argument: 'E:\\MyGG(2009-08-24
> 23:18:25).tar.bz2'
> "
>
>   
Still have two erroneous colons in that string.  The one after the E is 
okay.
> When i type path with foreward slashes, Python converts them to double
> backslashes  :P
> "
> C:\Users\Ryniek's WinSe7en\Documents\My Dropbox\Aplikacje
> \Moje_aplikacje\Pythonowe_aplikacje\Skrypty>python backuper.py -f E:/
> APLIKACJE/nowegg.exe E:/ MyGG
> Checking permissions for reading and writing...
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "backuper.py", line 194, in 
>     main_meth()
>   File "backuper.py", line 186, in main_meth
>     paq.backup_file(pars.options.filename[0], pars.options.filename
> [1], pars.options.filename[2])
>   File "backuper.py", line 114, in backup_file
>     backup_obj =arfile.open(dest, 'w|bz2')
>   File "E:\WinSe7en Apps\APLIKACJE\ActiveState Python 2.6\lib
> \tarfile.py", line 1675, in open
>     _Stream(name, filemode, comptype, fileobj, bufsize),
>   File "E:\WinSe7en Apps\APLIKACJE\ActiveState Python 2.6\lib
> \tarfile.py", line 400, in __init__
>     fileobj =LowLevelFile(name, mode)
>   File "E:\WinSe7en Apps\APLIKACJE\ActiveState Python 2.6\lib
> \tarfile.py", line 373, in __init__
>     self.fd =s.open(name, mode)
> OSError: [Errno 22] Invalid argument: 'E:\\MyGG(2009-08-24
> 23:20:19).tar.bz2'
> "
>
> I tried raw string also, but nothing helps.   :-/
>
>   
If a string has a backslash in it, and it is printed, you see a single 
backslash.  But if it is output with repr(), then you see it doubled, 
just as you would do if you were typing it in as a literal.  That does 
NOT mean that it has a double backslash, it just means that particular 
display formatting shows you that.  Try the following to see what I mean:

 >>> st = r"e:\testing\again.txt"
 >>> st
'e:\\testing\\again.txt'
 >>> print st
e:\testing\again.txt
 >>> print [st, st]
['e:\\testing\\again.txt', 'e:\\testing\\again.txt']
 >>>

Since you don't know how a particular error message was constructed, you 
don't know for sure which way to interpret the results.  That comes with 
practice.  In the meantime, if you print a simple string with simple 
print, you should be able to see it fine.

Incidentally, in nearly every case, Windows ignores extra backslashes.  
So that's not likely to be your problem.  Get rid of those colons, 
without replacing them with pipes.

DaveA


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Mon Aug 24 20:16:33 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:16:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: basic thread question
References: <20090818201015.GP20434@dragontoe.org>
	 
	<4a922086$0$1619$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>  
	
	 
	<4224e772-5b67-4eea-9bdf-a7d2bf7cc128@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: <864e2d5f-0855-4f35-a78c-b09054e75f0d@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On 25 Aug, 01:26, Piet van Oostrum  wrote:

> That's because it doesn't use copy-on-write. Thereby losing most of its
> advantages. I don't know SUA, but I have vaguely heard about it.

SUA is a version of UNIX hidden inside Windows Vista and Windows 7
(except in Home and Home Premium), but very few seem to know of it.
SUA (Subsystem for Unix based Applications) is formerly known as
Interix, which is a certified version of UNIX based on OpenBSD. If you
go to http://www.interopsystems.com (a website run by Interop Systems
Inc., a company owned by Microsoft), you will find a lot of common
unix tools prebuilt for SUA, including Python 2.6.2.

The NT-kernel supports copy-on-write fork with a special system call
(ZwCreateProcess in ntdll.dll), which is what SUA's implementation of
fork() uses.


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Mon Aug 24 20:25:39 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 25 Aug 2009 00:25:39 GMT
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
References: 
	
	
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
	
	
	<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com>
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: <02a31f91$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:23:06 -0700, James Harris wrote:

> Sure but while I wouldn't normally want to type something as obscure as
> 32"rst" into a file of data I might want to type 0xff00 or similar. That
> is far clearer than 65280 in some cases.
> 
> My point was that int('ff00', 16) is OK for the programmer but cannot be
> used generally as it includes a function call.


No, it's the other way around. If you have *data*, whether entered at run 
time by the user or read from a file, you can easily pass it to a 
function to convert to an int. (In fact you have to do this anyway, 
because the data will be a string and you need an int.) 

If you want your data file to have values entered in hex, or oct, or even 
unary (1=one, 11=two, 111=three, 1111=four...) you can. There's no need 
to have the user enter int('ff00', 16) to get hex, just have them enter 
ff00.

But when writing *code*, you want syntax which will accept integers in 
the most common bases (decimal, a distant second hex, an even more 
distant third octal, and way out on the horizon binary) without the 
runtime cost of a function call.



-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Mon Aug 24 20:37:36 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 25 Aug 2009 00:37:36 GMT
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: 
	<0018e1a0$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<20090823031901.GX20434@dragontoe.org>
	
	<87fxbifzb7.fsf@golux.woodcraft.me.uk>
	
	<0b380152-efb5-4cee-b75e-28ff59e095fd@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<02a2b7f1$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <02a3225f$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 12:40:24 -0500, Derek Martin wrote:

> On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 05:03:28PM +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 11:21:46 -0500, Derek Martin wrote:
>> > since the old syntax is prevalent both within and without the Python
>> > community, making the change is, was, and always will be a bad idea.
>>
>> Octal syntax isn't prevalent *at all*, except in a small number of
>> niche areas.
> 
> Steven, don't be obtuse.  Where octal is used in programming, the
> leading zero is prevalent.

Now who is being obtuse? If you take *any* feature at all, no matter how 
rare, you can say "Where it is used, it is prevalent". Among people who 
program in Whitespace, all three of them, the use of spaces and tabs as 
significant programming tokens is prevalent.

This whole argument is over whether or not a "feature" desired by a tiny 
proportion of the programming community -- the intersection of those who 
use octal frequently enough that using an extra  'o' is a hardship, and 
those who use C-based languages -- should hold *everyone else* hostage to 
their badly thought out notation.


[...]
> Why is it so hard for you to accept that intelligent people can disagree
> with you, and that what's right for you might be bad for others?

I can accept that intelligent people can disagree with me. I even 
sympathise with you, that you're one of the minority who don't find octal 
archaic and unnecessary, and you'll need to learn a new syntax for octal 
literals in Python 3.x. But your argument is fundamentally "but we've 
always done it this way, and other languages do it, so why should we 
change?". We should change because the desire to prevent silent errors 
caused by (e.g.) 012 being interpreted as 10, and the desire to be 
consistent with both mathematical notation and floating point syntax 
outweighs the need to be backward compatible.

This change was not a spur of the moment thing, it went through the 
entire PEP process with due concern for backward compatibility, which 
Python does *not* change without good reason. You lost, get over it. I'm 
sorry that you personally find this change a hardship, but HTFU. If and 
when you move to Python 3.x, you'll get used to it. If you can get used 
to putting braces around code blocks in C and braces around dicts in 
Python, you're more than capable of getting used to writing 012 in C and 
0o12 in Python.



-- 
Steven


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Mon Aug 24 20:54:13 2009
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (greg)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 12:54:13 +1200
Subject: Literal concatenation, strings vs. numbers
In-Reply-To: <871vn2gcai.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
References: 			<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>		
	<87ljlahbn9.fsf@benfinney.id.au>		<7fe9mbF2l83bmU1@mid.individual.net>
	<871vn2gcai.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <7fgr0nF2l3st0U1@mid.individual.net>

Ben Finney wrote:

> So, different representations of literals are parsed as separate
> literals, then concatenated. To have the behaviour you describe, the
> case needs to be made separately that digit concatenation should not be
> consistent with the established string literal parsing behaviour.

I think it's a pretty easy case to make, since there is no
obvious way of "concatenating" numbers written in different
bases. So if it's to be allowed at all, it pretty much has
to be restricted to a single base.

However, I'd be just as happy with underscores. I don't
see how there could be any great difficulty with implementing
that -- it only affects the scanner.

-- 
Greg


From mensanator at aol.com  Mon Aug 24 21:01:38 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:01:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
References:  
	
	 
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com> 
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
	
	
	<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com> 
	
	
	
	
	<02a31f91$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <44bcb727-0885-4d4f-9c11-ca60a39b0d91@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 24, 7:25?pm, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:23:06 -0700, James Harris wrote:
> > Sure but while I wouldn't normally want to type something as obscure as
> > 32"rst" into a file of data I might want to type 0xff00 or similar. That
> > is far clearer than 65280 in some cases.
>
> > My point was that int('ff00', 16) is OK for the programmer but cannot be
> > used generally as it includes a function call.
>
> No, it's the other way around. If you have *data*, whether entered at run
> time by the user or read from a file, you can easily pass it to a
> function to convert to an int. (In fact you have to do this anyway,
> because the data will be a string and you need an int.)
>
> If you want your data file to have values entered in hex, or oct, or even
> unary (1=one, 11=two, 111=three, 1111=four...) you can.

Unary? I think you'll find that Standard Positional Number
Systems are not defined for radix 1.

> There's no need
> to have the user enter int('ff00', 16) to get hex, just have them enter
> ff00.
>
> But when writing *code*, you want syntax which will accept integers in
> the most common bases (decimal, a distant second hex, an even more
> distant third octal, and way out on the horizon binary) without the
> runtime cost of a function call.
>
> --
> Steven



From mwilson at the-wire.com  Mon Aug 24 21:21:32 2009
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:21:32 -0400
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal
	notation
References: 
	
	
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
	
	
	<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com>
	
	
	
	
	<02a31f91$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<44bcb727-0885-4d4f-9c11-ca60a39b0d91@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Mensanator wrote:
[ ... ]
>> If you want your data file to have values entered in hex, or oct, or even
>> unary (1=one, 11=two, 111=three, 1111=four...) you can.
> 
> Unary? I think you'll find that Standard Positional Number
> Systems are not defined for radix 1.

It has to be tweaked.  If the only digit you have is 0 then your numbers 
take the form

0*1 + 0*1**2 + 0*1**3 ...

and every number has an infinitely long representation.  If you cheat and 
take a 1 digit instead then it becomes workable.

	Mel.





From pydecker at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 21:51:42 2009
From: pydecker at gmail.com (Peter Decker)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:51:42 -0400
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c20908240849p283cb70o50f374a4f8c867b@mail.gmail.com>
References: 
	<7a9c25c20908240849p283cb70o50f374a4f8c867b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Stephen Hansen wrote:

> P.S. I have no idea why I'm pumping Dabo so much in this though I've never
> used it!

I've used in fairly regularly for about 2 years now. I haven't had to
write that ugly wxPython code for so long that every time I see
examples on their mail list I wanna barf.

Dabo is powerful, Pythonic, and strongly supported by its developers.
Check it out at http://dabodev.com

-- 

# p.d.


From samwyse at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 21:53:00 2009
From: samwyse at gmail.com (samwyse)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:53:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: best way to display photos
Message-ID: <96e9b045-d591-485e-b831-ba1462345df9@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

I have several thousand photographs that I need to quickly classify,
all by myself.  After extensive searches, I have been unable to find
anything to my liking, so desire to write something myself.  I'm
thinking about displaying a photo and waiting for keystrokes to tag
it; 'i' for interior, 'e' for exterior, etc., while hitting space or
enter will advance to the next photo.  My big question is, what's the
best way to display the photos.  I've used PIL in the past, but IIRC
it uses an external program.  Pygame is the next obvious choice, but
like PIL it requires an add-in.  That leaves Tkinter.  Has anyone used
it to display .JPG files, perhaps with rescaling to fit my screen?
How is its performance?  Is there any other possibilities that I've
missed?  Thanks.


From http  Mon Aug 24 22:01:49 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 24 Aug 2009 19:01:49 -0700
Subject: best way to display photos
References: <96e9b045-d591-485e-b831-ba1462345df9@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7x3a7gmz1u.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

samwyse  writes:
> My big question is, what's the
> best way to display the photos.  I've used PIL in the past, but IIRC
> it uses an external program.  Pygame is the next obvious choice, but
> like PIL it requires an add-in.  That leaves Tkinter.  Has anyone used
> it to display .JPG files, perhaps with rescaling to fit my screen?

I've displayed images with tkinter -- I remember there is some kind of
trick you have to do to prevent them from being gc'd prematurely but
I've forgotten the specifics.  However, for the kind of thing you're
doing, a one-off app that you don't have to impress anyone with by
making it slick, the simplest thing to do is just slam together an
HTML page and view it with a browser, with an entry field next to each
picture, and a "submit" button.  Then run a near-trivial http server
that collects the form submissions and saves them to a file.


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Mon Aug 24 22:26:40 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:26:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
References: 
	<7a9c25c20908240849p283cb70o50f374a4f8c867b@mail.gmail.com> 
	
Message-ID: <81ac68ae-c7fc-4caa-a04f-f358ffb78864@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>

On 25 Aug, 03:51, Peter Decker  wrote:

> I've used in fairly regularly for about 2 years now. I haven't had to
> write that ugly wxPython code for so long that every time I see
> examples on their mail list I wanna barf.

I prefer wxFormBuilder. GUIs should be designed visually whenever
possible.






From afriere at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Aug 24 22:29:24 2009
From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:29:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Web Services examples using "raw" xml?
References: 
Message-ID: <115acae5-b3cb-4879-b464-80301d817018@p36g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 25, 5:41?am, John Gordon  wrote:

>
> ? File "/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/suds/client.py", line 59
> ? ? @classmethod
> ? ? ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>

If memory serves me correctly, decorators were introduced in
python2.4.  That would account for your SyntaxError.


From rodrigodocarmo at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 22:29:57 2009
From: rodrigodocarmo at gmail.com (Rodrigo do Carmo)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:29:57 -0300
Subject: Any Softphone wrote in Python?
Message-ID: 

Hi python-community,

I would like to ask you if someone know any open source softphone wrote
entirely in Python. The thing is that I want to write a honeyphone but
starting from a softphone. Sorry if you think that I haven't "googled"
enough.

Regards,
Rodrigo.
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From mbezovnik at freenet.si  Mon Aug 24 22:30:52 2009
From: mbezovnik at freenet.si (Matjaz Bezovnik)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 04:30:52 +0200
Subject: Putting together a larger matrix from smaller matrices
Message-ID: <0si695db7bm7rfelo9iud89d8vda32176r@4ax.com>

Dear all,

I'm but a layman so do not take offence at this maybe over simple
question.

This is something which is done often in FEM methods, and the alike.

I have matrix A of 3x3 elements, and B, of the same number of
elements, 3x3. 

What would be the most obvious way to assemble a matrix which:
a11 a12 a13
a21 a22 a23
a31 a32 a33+b11 b12 b13
                      b21 b22 b23
                      b31 b32 b33

(the missing elements = zero)

(you see the pattern - if there was a third matrix C, it would
"connect" to b33 on the main diagonal)


Matjaz


From bbxx789_05ss at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 24 22:42:36 2009
From: bbxx789_05ss at yahoo.com (7stud)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:42:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: print() and unicode strings (python 3.1)
References: <4eda8137-7db9-4c39-a2c1-3477b071f7f6@x5g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<4a92b83b$0$27209$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	
	<4a92fb02$0$2582$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 24, 2:41?pm, "Martin v. L?wis"  wrote:
> > I can't figure out a way to programatically set the encoding for
> > sys.stdout. ?So where does that leave me?
>
> You should be setting the terminal encoding administratively, not
> programmatically.
>

The terminal encoding has always been utf-8.  It was not set
programmatically.

It seems to me that python 3.1's string handling is broken.
Apparently, in python 3.1 I am unable to explicitly set the encoding
of a string and print() it out with the result being human readable
text.  On the other hand, if I let python do the encoding implicitly,
python uses a codec I don't want it to.





From rylesny at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 22:48:20 2009
From: rylesny at gmail.com (ryles)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:48:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Protecting against callbacks queuing up?
References: <4a91db65$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
Message-ID: <18241686-02a5-4433-bd45-ba280d5705a1@r33g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 23, 8:14?pm, Esben von Buchwald  wrote:
> I thought that this code would do the trick, but it obviously doesn't
> help at all, and i can't understand why...
>
> ? ? ?def doCallback(self):
> ? ? ? ? ?if self.process_busy==False:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?self.process_busy=True
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?self.data_callback()
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?self.process_busy=False
>
> doCallback is defined as a callback function for the accelerometer
> instance, and data_callback does some calculations and show them on the
> display of the phone.
>
> What to do? Thanks...

As Dennis pointed out, it sounds like doCallback() is called serially.
That is, you can think of doCallback() as being called in a loop,
rather than entered multiple times simultaneously. Your 'busy' flag is
never actually checked until after it has already been reset to False.

If the data accessed by the callback as a unique copy and has a
timestamp then a simple approach which avoids multithreading would be
to have your callback ensure that any 'old' data is simply ignored.
This will allow it to quickly catch up to a 'new' event.


From r1chardj0n3s at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 23:20:19 2009
From: r1chardj0n3s at gmail.com (Richard Jones)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:20:19 +1000
Subject: Next week: the 9th PyWeek game programming challenge!
Message-ID: 

The ninth PyWeek challenge starts this weekend, running between Sunday  
30th August to Sunday 6th September (00:00UTC to 00:00UTC)

The PyWeek challenge invites entrants to write a game in one week from
scratch either as an individual or in a team. Entries must be developed
in Python, during the challenge, and must incorporate some theme chosen
at the start of the challenge.


REGISTRATION IS NOW OPEN --

Visit the challenge website to sign up, join discussions in the  
message board or read the timetable and rules:

  http://www.pyweek.org/9/


PLANNING FOR THE CHALLENGE --

Make sure you have working versions of the libraries you're going to  
use.
The rules page has a list of libraries and other resources.

Make sure you can build packages to submit as your final submission (if
you're going to use py2exe, make sure you know how to use it and that it
works).

If you don't have access to Linux, Windows or a Mac to test on, contact
friends, family or other competitors to find someone who is able to test
for you.


From max at alcyone.com  Mon Aug 24 23:20:21 2009
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 20:20:21 -0700
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: <02a2b43f$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 	<0018e1a0$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<20090823031901.GX20434@dragontoe.org>		<87fxbifzb7.fsf@golux.woodcraft.me.uk>	<20090824135648.GA20434@dragontoe.org>	
	<02a2b43f$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:14:25 -0500, Derek Martin wrote:
> 
>> Assuming I'm right about that, then the use of a leading 0 to represent
>> octal actually predates the prevalence of using 0 in dates by almost two
>> decades.  And while using leading zeros in other contexts is "familiar"
>> to me, I would certainly not consider it "common" by any means.  Thus I
>> think it's fair to say that when this syntax was selected, it was a
>> rather good choice.
> 
> Except of course to anyone familiar with mathematics in the last, oh, 
> five hundred years or so. Mathematics has used a positional system for 
> numbers for centuries now: leading zeroes have been insignificant, just 
> like trailing zeroes after the decimal point:
> 
> 9 = 09 = 009 = 9.0 = 9.00 = 0009.000 etc.

Trailing zeroes are quite important when you're indicating the 
significance of a figure.  9 is not the same as 9.0 or 9.000.

-- 
Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
  San Jose, CA, USA && 37 18 N 121 57 W && AIM/Y!M/Skype erikmaxfrancis
   If the sky should fall, hold up your hands.
    -- (a Spanish proverb)


From max at alcyone.com  Mon Aug 24 23:23:34 2009
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 20:23:34 -0700
Subject: Temat:,Re: IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename:
	in windows xp while making tarfile
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<4A928B4B.9030502@gmail.com> <4A92A57A.5010105@dejaviewphoto.com>
	
	<4ec18c68-b8b5-401e-b910-802b7662dced@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<321b8396-0806-4a1a-9a32-efbb147e6b4b@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

ryniek wrote:
> On 24 Sie, 22:34, ryniek  wrote:
>> On 24 Sie, 16:56, John Machin  wrote:
>>
>>> On Aug 25, 12:46 am, Tim Golden  wrote:
>>>> Dave Angel wrote:
>>>>> You still haven't gotten rid of those illegal colons in the filename.  
>>>>> They're not legal in Windows, as has been pointed out a couple of times
>>>>> in this thread.
>>>> Ummm.. Colons are of course legal in Windows filenames as designating
>>> That is the most inappropriate "of course" I've seen for quite a
>>> while.
>>>> the Alternate Data Streams:
>>> OK, so s/illegal/evil/
>> Ok, but how to get rid of those colons?
>> Is it necessary?
> 
> I dealt with it. Had to change 'w:bz2' into 'w|bz2'.
> 
> But now have another problem:

It's the same problem, asked and answered.  Why not read the replies of 
the people telling you what the problem is?

-- 
Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
  San Jose, CA, USA && 37 18 N 121 57 W && AIM/Y!M/Skype erikmaxfrancis
   If the sky should fall, hold up your hands.
    -- (a Spanish proverb)


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 23:37:11 2009
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 20:37:11 -0700
Subject: print() and unicode strings (python 3.1)
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4eda8137-7db9-4c39-a2c1-3477b071f7f6@x5g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<4a92b83b$0$27209$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	
	<4a92fb02$0$2582$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	
Message-ID: <7a9c25c20908242037n41dde072h7eec82c78cd8f864@mail.gmail.com>

>
> > You should be setting the terminal encoding administratively, not
> > programmatically.
> >
>
> The terminal encoding has always been utf-8.  It was not set
> programmatically.
>
> It seems to me that python 3.1's string handling is broken.
> Apparently, in python 3.1 I am unable to explicitly set the encoding
> of a string and print() it out with the result being human readable
> text.  On the other hand, if I let python do the encoding implicitly,
> python uses a codec I don't want it to.


This isn't Python's string handling-- its the streams. The string handling
is behaving precisely as it should, and you can explicitly set the encoding
of any string to anything you want (as long as the data can translate).

sys.stdout is a text stream: so has an explicit encoding. You can set your
string to any encoding, but if you try to pass it through a text-stream
which has an incompatible encoding, of course it will error out. That's the
correct behavior.

The problem seems to be that Python appears to be auto-detecting an encoding
for your terminal (and assigning it to sys.stdout) that you think is
incorrect; and it appears that this detection routine has changed (though I
don't know if its the routine itself or sys.stdout being a "byte string"
based object in 2.6 and a "unicode string" based object in 3.x that has
caused this difference in behavior-- this is probably the case, really).

How are you 'setting' your terminal encoding? Is your LC_CTYPE environment
variable set to "en_US.UTF-8"? That's how Python (on nix'ses, at least, I
believe) determines the encoding of the terminal and thus the
sys.std(out|err) streams.

If for some reason Python's detecting it wrong, the only way I know to
change it would be to:

import io, sys
sys.stdout = io.TextIOWrapper(sys.stdout.buffer, encoding='utf-8')

HTH,

--S
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From stephen.mc at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 23:37:19 2009
From: stephen.mc at gmail.com (Steve)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 20:37:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
References: 
Message-ID: 

You can also use Windows Forms with IronPython

http://www.ironpython.info/index.php/Contents#Windows_Forms


From cmpython at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 23:37:23 2009
From: cmpython at gmail.com (Che M)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 20:37:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
References: 
Message-ID: 


> I'm especially concerned about the lack of controls, the lack of
> updates (lots of controls in wxWidgets are 1.0 deadware),

I use wxPython.  No lack of controls there, and most are up to
date.  Which "lots" in wxWidgets are you thinking of?

> I need controls for business apps like access to databases, good data
> grid,

Should be fine with wxPython.

> printing reports (with or without barcodes), etc.

Maybe ReportManager? (haven't used) or other options.

-cm


From pydecker at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 23:56:23 2009
From: pydecker at gmail.com (Peter Decker)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:56:23 -0400
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
In-Reply-To: <81ac68ae-c7fc-4caa-a04f-f358ffb78864@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<7a9c25c20908240849p283cb70o50f374a4f8c867b@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<81ac68ae-c7fc-4caa-a04f-f358ffb78864@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 10:26 PM, sturlamolden wrote:
> On 25 Aug, 03:51, Peter Decker  wrote:
>
>> I've used in fairly regularly for about 2 years now. I haven't had to
>> write that ugly wxPython code for so long that every time I see
>> examples on their mail list I wanna barf.
>
> I prefer wxFormBuilder. GUIs should be designed visually whenever
> possible.

I use the Dabo Class Designer to visually design my forms. So what's
you're point?  :)

-- 

# p.d.


From timr at probo.com  Tue Aug 25 00:02:05 2009
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:02:05 -0700
Subject: IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename: in windows
	xp while making tarfile 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Ryniek90  wrote:
>
>Sorry, but i don't know where those pipes came from  : P
>
>The proper path is "C:\\Users\\Ryniek's
>WinSe7en\\MyNewGGBackup(2009-08-23 14:59:02).tar.bz2"
>and that string literal is "\U", without any pipes  :)
>
>The truth is that script works on linux (ubuntu) but not on windows
>(neither Win7 nor WinXP).

Right, and it' not going to work as long as you have a colon (:) in the
file name.  Colons are not valid in a Windows file name.  Colons are used
to separate the drive letter and the "stream" name.  It's just that simple.

>Maybe it's good idea to use raw string for specifing those paths?

Doesn't matter.  Get rid of the colons, and your file name will work.
-- 
Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From dmw at coder.cl  Tue Aug 25 00:03:55 2009
From: dmw at coder.cl (Daniel Molina Wegener)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 00:03:55 -0400
Subject: [ANN] pyxser-1.2r --- Python-Object to XML serialization module
References: <2571343.k9db9GJWqV@coder.cl>
	<4a923e50$0$32664$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
	<2665032.o6QR52tnKS@coder.cl>
	<4a928ed7$0$32666$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <1685404.FXBiJzzPRc@coder.cl>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Stefan Behnel 
on Monday 24 August 2009 09:00
wrote in comp.lang.python:


> Daniel Molina Wegener wrote:
>> unicode objects are encoded into the
>> encoding that the XML document encoding has, and as you say, the whole
>> XML document has one encoding. There is no mixing of byte encoded strings
>> with different encodings in the outout document.
> 
> Ok, that's what I hoped anyway. It just wasn't clear from your
> description.
> 
> 
>> When the object is restored, by using pyxser.unserialize:
>> 
>> pyobj = pyxser.unserialize(obj = xmldocstr, enc = "utf-8")
> 
> But this is XML, right? What do you need to pass the encoding for at this
> point?

  The user may want a different encoding, other than utf-8, it can
be any encoding supported by libxml2.

> 
> 
>> Another issue is the fact that if you have mixed some encodings in byte
>> strings objects in your object tree, such as iso-8859-1 and utf-8, and
>> you try to serialize that object, pyxser will output to stdout the
>> serialization errors by trying to handle those mixed encodings which are
>> not regarding the document encoding.
> 
> There shouldn't be any serialisation errors (unless you try to recode byte
> strings on the way out, which is a no-no for arbitrary user input). All
> you have to do is properly escape the byte string so that it passes the
> XML encoding step.

  Yup, but if the encodings are mixed inside Python byte strings, I think
that there is no way to know which encoding are using them. This may cause
XML serialization errors, by having a different encoding that the user
have set as the document encoding.

> 
> One trick to do that is to decode the byte string as ISO-8859-1 and
> serialise the result as a normal Unicode string. Then you can re-encode
> the unicode string on input back to ISO-8859-1.
> 
> I choose ISO-8859-1 here because it has the well-defined side-effect of
> mapping byte values directly to Unicode characters with an identical code
> point value. So you do not risk any failures or data loss.

  Sure, but if there are Python byte strings (not Unicode strings), ones
encoded in big5 and others in iso-8859-1 inside the object tree, the
XML serialization would throw errors on the encoding conversion, by
setting those bytes inside the document...

> 
> Stefan

  Thanks for commenting, and sorry for the late answer. This day was
busy...

Best regards,
- -- 
 .O. | Daniel Molina Wegener   | FreeBSD & Linux
 ..O | dmw [at] coder [dot] cl | Open Standards
 OOO | http://coder.cl/        | FOSS Developer
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From nad at acm.org  Tue Aug 25 00:09:53 2009
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:09:53 -0700
Subject: print() and unicode strings (python 3.1)
References: <4eda8137-7db9-4c39-a2c1-3477b071f7f6@x5g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<4a92b83b$0$27209$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	
	<4a92fb02$0$2582$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	
Message-ID: 

In article 
,
 7stud  wrote:

> On Aug 24, 2:41?pm, "Martin v. L?wis"  wrote:
> > > I can't figure out a way to programatically set the encoding for
> > > sys.stdout. ?So where does that leave me?
> >
> > You should be setting the terminal encoding administratively, not
> > programmatically.
> >
> 
> The terminal encoding has always been utf-8.  It was not set
> programmatically.
> 
> It seems to me that python 3.1's string handling is broken.
> Apparently, in python 3.1 I am unable to explicitly set the encoding
> of a string and print() it out with the result being human readable
> text.  On the other hand, if I let python do the encoding implicitly,
> python uses a codec I don't want it to.

If you are running on a Unix-y system, check your locale settings (LANG, 
LC.*, et al).  I think you'll likely find that your locale is really not 
UTF-8.   The following was on Python 3.1 on OS X 10.5, similar results 
on Debian Linux:

$ cat t3.py
import sys
print(sys.stdout.encoding)
s = "?"
print(s.encode("utf-8"))
print(s)

$ export LANG=en_US.UTF-8
$ python3.1 t3.py
UTF-8
b'\xe2\x82\xac'
?

$ export LANG=C
$ python3.1 t3.py
US-ASCII
b'\xe2\x82\xac'
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "t3.py", line 7, in 
    print(s)
UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character '\u20ac' in 
position 0: ordinal not in range(128)

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org



From bbxx789_05ss at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 25 00:14:44 2009
From: bbxx789_05ss at yahoo.com (7stud)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:14:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: best way to display photos
References: <96e9b045-d591-485e-b831-ba1462345df9@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<7x3a7gmz1u.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <3c6c5a60-c969-4db8-8787-fb01a174249d@p10g2000prm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 24, 8:01?pm, Paul Rubin  wrote:
> samwyse  writes:
> > My big question is, what's the
> > best way to display the photos. ?I've used PIL in the past, but IIRC
> > it uses an external program. ?Pygame is the next obvious choice, but
> > like PIL it requires an add-in. ?That leaves Tkinter. ?Has anyone used
> > it to display .JPG files, perhaps with rescaling to fit my screen?
>
> I've displayed images with tkinter -- I remember there is some kind of
> trick you have to do to prevent them from being gc'd prematurely but
> I've forgotten the specifics. ?
>

You store the images in a list or dictionary.


From gallium.arsenide at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 00:34:57 2009
From: gallium.arsenide at gmail.com (John Yeung)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:34:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: csv module and None values
References: 
Message-ID: <54b4b6f9-38d5-4a8e-8ec2-fbca4a0fe1f4@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 24, 1:30?pm, JKPeck  wrote:
> I'm trying to get the csv module (Python 2.6) to write data
> records like Excel. ?The excel dialect isn't doing it. ?The
> problem is in writing None values. ?I want them to result
> in just sequential commas - ,, but csv treats None specially,
> as the doc says,
>
> "To make it as easy as possible to interface with modules
> which implement the DB API, the value None is written as
> the empty string."
>
> I need strings to be quoted but not None values. ?Is there
> any way to get around this special None treatment?

If you need all nonempty strings to be quoted unconditionally, then
you are not writing CSV records the way Excel writes CSV records.  The
csv module is surprisingly good at behaving like Excel, and by default
writes strings with quotes only when needed (that is, when the string
itself contains commas, quotes, or newlines).

If you truly want Excel-style CSVs, just let the csv module do its
thing, as pointed out by Peter Otten.

>From the sounds of it, you have specified QUOTE_NONNUMERIC or perhaps
QUOTE_ALL as the quoting property of the dialect you are using.  If
so, and if this is really what you need except for *your* special None
treatment, then using a sentinel is in my opinion as good a way as any
to achieve that.

John


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 00:40:42 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:40:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Simple IRC library
References: <752884c5-c6fb-4974-a21a-bf3017fa4145@y4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

devaru  wrote:
> I am new to Python language. I want to capture(either in database or a
> file) the conversation in IRC.
> Please suggest me some simple IRC library or code snippet for this.

I recommend the circuits[1] library, which contains a sample irc bot
[2]. You'll want to override the message method to do something with
the data captured.

    #!/usr/bin/env python

    from circuits import Component, Debugger
    from circuits.net.sockets import TCPClient, Connect
    from circuits.net.protocols.irc import IRC, Message, User, Nick

    class Bot(Component):

        def __init__(self, host, port=6667, channel=None):
            super(Bot, self).__init__(channel=channel)
            self += TCPClient(channel=channel) + IRC(channel=channel)
            self.push(Connect(host, port), "connect")

        def connected(self, host, port):
            self.push(User("test", host, host, "Test Bot"), "USER")
            self.push(Nick("test"), "NICK")

        def numeric(self, source, target, numeric, args, message):
            if numeric == 433:
                self.push(Nick("%s_" % self("getNick")), "NICK")

        def message(self, source, target, message):
            self.push(Message(source[0], message), "PRIVMSG")

    bot = Bot("irc.freenode.net", channel="bot") + Debugger()
    bot.run()


[1]: http://pypi.python.org/pypi/circuits
[2]: http://trac.softcircuit.com.au/circuits/browser/examples/ircbot.py


From gallium.arsenide at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 00:43:57 2009
From: gallium.arsenide at gmail.com (John Yeung)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:43:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: csv module and None values
References: 
	
Message-ID: <23c02daf-dc5a-4676-8d73-9dc63791825f@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 24, 5:00?pm, Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
> If I understand you correctly the csv.writer already does
> what you want:
>
> >>> w.writerow([1,None,2])
> 1,,2
>
> just sequential commas, but that is the special treatment.
> Without it the None value would be converted to a string
> and the line would look like this one:
>
> 1,None,2

No, I think he means he is getting

>>> w.writerow([1,None,2])
1,"",2

He evidently wants to quote "all" strings, but doesn't want None to be
considered a string.

John


From denis.bilenko at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 00:51:52 2009
From: denis.bilenko at gmail.com (Denis)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:51:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Most "active" coroutine library project?
References: <64183b73-9cb0-4ce1-98d0-f47e13a818e4@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

You can also at gevent

http://pypi.python.org/pypi/gevent


On Aug 23, 10:02?pm, Phillip B Oldham 
wrote:
> I've been taking a look at the multitude of coroutine libraries
> available for Python, but from the looks of the projects they all seem
> to be rather "quiet". I'd like to pick one up to use on a current
> project but can't deduce which is the most popular/has the largest
> community.
>
> Libraries I looked at include: cogen, weightless, eventlet and
> circuits (which isn't exactly coroutine-based but it's event-driven
> model was intriguing).
>
> Firstly, are there any others I've missed? And what would the
> consensus be on the which has the most active community behind it?



From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Tue Aug 25 00:54:28 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 06:54:28 +0200
Subject: Web Services examples using "raw" xml?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4a936e84$0$31337$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>

John Gordon wrote:
> I'm developing a program that will use web services, which I have never
> used before.
> 
> There are several tutorials out there that advise you to get the WSDL
> and then call a method (such as wsdl2py) that inspects the wsdl and
> automagically generates the python classes and methods you need for
> interacting with that web service.

There are a number of tools that help in building WS clients. One is
soaplib. It's pretty easy to use and was recently ported (V0.8) to the lxml
XML library. I actually still use a 0.7.x, also fixed to work with Py2.3.

It doesn't do any code generation. Instead, you have to write up a short
code snippet that describes the WS interface. Works pretty well.


> I tried WSDL.Proxy() from the SOAPpy package and eventually end up
> with this error:
> 
> xml.parsers.expat.ExpatError: not well-formed (invalid token): line 1, column 6

Is that while parsing the WSDL file? Have you tried pushing it through an
XML parser yourself (or opening it with an XML editor) to see if it really
is XML?

Or does this happen while communicating with the remote side? (in which
case I'd trap the wire and look at the transferred XML messages)


> I tried Client() from the suds package, and got this error:
> 
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/suds/client.py", line 59
>     @classmethod
>     ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax

That's a Py2.4-ism. You can make the code backwards compatible by replacing all

	@classmethod
	def some_function():
	    ...

lines with

	def some_function():
	    ...

	some_function = classmethod(some_function)

That's how I fixed up soaplib, BTW.


> So I decided to take a step back and see if I could bypass all the fancy
> automagic methods and just create my own SOAP xml message from scratch
> and then send it to the web server.  That would work, surely.

Yes, that's a good way also. And it avoids an additional dependency on a
convoluted SOAP library.


> But I'm having a tough time finding some good examples of that, because
> all the tutorials I've found just tell you to use the aforementioned
> magic methods, which unfortunately don;t seem to be working for me.

http://effbot.org/zone/element-soap.htm

Stefan


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Tue Aug 25 01:11:01 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 07:11:01 +0200
Subject: [ANN] pyxser-1.2r --- Python-Object to XML serialization module
In-Reply-To: <1685404.FXBiJzzPRc@coder.cl>
References: <2571343.k9db9GJWqV@coder.cl>
	<4a923e50$0$32664$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
	<2665032.o6QR52tnKS@coder.cl>
	<4a928ed7$0$32666$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
	<1685404.FXBiJzzPRc@coder.cl>
Message-ID: <4a937266$0$31337$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>

Daniel Molina Wegener wrote:
> Stefan Behnel  wrote:
>> Daniel Molina Wegener wrote:
>>> When the object is restored, by using pyxser.unserialize:
>>>
>>> pyobj = pyxser.unserialize(obj = xmldocstr, enc = "utf-8")
>> But this is XML, right? What do you need to pass the encoding for at this
>> point?
> 
>   The user may want a different encoding, other than utf-8, it can
> be any encoding supported by libxml2.

I really meant what I wrote: this is XML. The encoding is well defined in
the XML declaration at the start of the document (and will default to UTF-8
if not provided). Passing it externally will allow users to override that,
which doesn't make any sense at all.


> if the encodings are mixed inside Python byte strings, I think
> that there is no way to know which encoding are using them.

Correct.

> This may cause XML serialization errors

Yes, but only if you try to recode the strings (which, as I said, is a no-no).


>> One trick to do that is to decode the byte string as ISO-8859-1 and
>> serialise the result as a normal Unicode string. Then you can re-encode
>> the unicode string on input back to ISO-8859-1.
> 
>> I choose ISO-8859-1 here because it has the well-defined side-effect of
>> mapping byte values directly to Unicode characters with an identical code
>> point value. So you do not risk any failures or data loss.
> 
>   Sure, but if there are Python byte strings (not Unicode strings), ones
> encoded in big5 and others in iso-8859-1 inside the object tree, the
> XML serialization would throw errors on the encoding conversion, by
> setting those bytes inside the document...

No, I really meant: decoding from ISO-8859-1 to Unicode, for all byte
strings, regardless of their encoding (since you can't even know if they
represent encoded text at all). So you get a unicode string that you can
serialise to the target encoding, although it may result in character
references (&#xyz;) being output. But you won't get any errors, at least.

On the way in, you get a unicode string again, which you can encode to
ISO-8859-1 to get the original byte string back.

Stefan


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Tue Aug 25 01:22:20 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 22:22:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
References: 
	<7a9c25c20908240849p283cb70o50f374a4f8c867b@mail.gmail.com> 
	
	<81ac68ae-c7fc-4caa-a04f-f358ffb78864@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On 25 Aug, 05:56, Peter Decker  wrote:

> I use the Dabo Class Designer to visually design my forms. So what's
> you're point? ?:)

Nothing, except lobbying for wxFormBuilder for anyone who still
doesn't know of it. :)



From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Tue Aug 25 01:23:18 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 07:23:18 +0200
Subject: [ANN] pyxser-1.2r --- Python-Object to XML serialization module
In-Reply-To: <4a937266$0$31337$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
References: <2571343.k9db9GJWqV@coder.cl>
	<4a923e50$0$32664$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
	<2665032.o6QR52tnKS@coder.cl>
	<4a928ed7$0$32666$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
	<1685404.FXBiJzzPRc@coder.cl>
	<4a937266$0$31337$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <4a937546$0$31332$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>

Stefan Behnel wrote:
> for all byte
> strings, regardless of their encoding (since you can't even know if they
> represent encoded text at all).

Hmm, having written that, I guess it's actually best to encode byte strings
as base64 instead. Otherwise, null bytes and other special byte values
won't pass.

I also think that if the user wants readable output for text strings, it's
reasonable to require Unicode input instead of byte strings. Handling text
in byte strings is just too error prone.

Still, you may have to sanitize text input to make sure it doesn't contain
special characters either. Take a look at the way lxml does it in the
apihelpers.pxi source file, or read the XML spec on character content.

Stefan


From mensanator at aol.com  Tue Aug 25 01:27:51 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 22:27:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
References:  
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com> 
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
	
	
	<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com> 
	
	
	
	
	<02a31f91$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<44bcb727-0885-4d4f-9c11-ca60a39b0d91@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4468c5f5-435f-48aa-a259-7ab51069d1f7@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 24, 8:21?pm, Mel  wrote:
> Mensanator wrote:
>
> [ ... ]
>
> >> If you want your data file to have values entered in hex, or oct, or even
> >> unary (1=one, 11=two, 111=three, 1111=four...) you can.
>
> > Unary? I think you'll find that Standard Positional Number
> > Systems are not defined for radix 1.
>
> It has to be tweaked. ?If the only digit you have is 0 then your numbers
> take the form
>
> 0*1 + 0*1**2 + 0*1**3 ...
>
> and every number has an infinitely long representation. ?If you cheat and
> take a 1 digit instead then it becomes workable.

Not really. If your single digit is one, you still have
an infinitely long representation only instead of every
position being zero, every position is one.

So either the only number that can be represented is 0,
or the only number that can be represented is infinity.
No amount of tweaking can fix this.

So, to use radix 1, you have to abandon the concept
of "Standard" (contains a 0) AND abandon "Positional"
(infinitely long representation). It's all in TAOCP
by Knuth if you want to get it straight.

You can have a radix 1 number system, but is meaningless
to speak of "unary" in the same context as hex, decimal,
octal & binary.

>
> ? ? ? ? Mel.



From spam at chezmarshall.freeserve.co.uk  Tue Aug 25 01:44:28 2009
From: spam at chezmarshall.freeserve.co.uk (Robert Marshall)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 06:44:28 +0100
Subject: your favorite debugging tool?
References: 
	<7xocq5vx64.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: 

On 24 Aug 2009, Paul Rubin wrote:

> Esmail  writes:
>> What is your favorite tool to help you debug your
>> code? I've been getting along with 'print' statements
>> but that is getting old and somewhat cumbersome.
> 
> Beyond print statements, I use pdb a lot.  Winpdb (www.winpdb.org) is
> even better, but is kind of cumbersome to get working.

And you can run it (pdb) within emacs - though I find a little roughness
in working out the exact interactions keeps ending up (ie the source
buffer displayed) in the wrong stack frame - afaict

Robert
-- 
La grenouille songe..dans son ch?teau d'eau
Links and things http://rmstar.blogspot.com/


From mensanator at aol.com  Tue Aug 25 02:01:30 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:01:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References:  
	<0018e1a0$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<20090823031901.GX20434@dragontoe.org> 
	
	<87fxbifzb7.fsf@golux.woodcraft.me.uk> 
	<20090824135648.GA20434@dragontoe.org>
	 
	<02a2b43f$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 24, 10:20?pm, Erik Max Francis  wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> > On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:14:25 -0500, Derek Martin wrote:
>
> >> Assuming I'm right about that, then the use of a leading 0 to represent
> >> octal actually predates the prevalence of using 0 in dates by almost two
> >> decades. ?And while using leading zeros in other contexts is "familiar"
> >> to me, I would certainly not consider it "common" by any means. ?Thus I
> >> think it's fair to say that when this syntax was selected, it was a
> >> rather good choice.
>
> > Except of course to anyone familiar with mathematics in the last, oh,
> > five hundred years or so. Mathematics has used a positional system for
> > numbers for centuries now: leading zeroes have been insignificant, just
> > like trailing zeroes after the decimal point:
>
> > 9 = 09 = 009 = 9.0 = 9.00 = 0009.000 etc.
>
> Trailing zeroes are quite important when you're indicating the
> significance of a figure. ?9 is not the same as 9.0 or 9.000.

Tell me about it. Unfortunnately, Microsoft doesn't understand
the difference between precision and significance. Makes my
job a nightmare when I have to convert ug/kg to mg/kg.

>
> --
> Erik Max Francis && m... at alcyone.com &&http://www.alcyone.com/max/
> ? San Jose, CA, USA && 37 18 N 121 57 W && AIM/Y!M/Skype erikmaxfrancis
> ? ?If the sky should fall, hold up your hands.
> ? ? -- (a Spanish proverb)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -



From hv at tbz-pariv.de  Tue Aug 25 02:40:56 2009
From: hv at tbz-pariv.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 08:40:56 +0200
Subject: best way to display photos
In-Reply-To: <96e9b045-d591-485e-b831-ba1462345df9@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <96e9b045-d591-485e-b831-ba1462345df9@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7fhfboF2ksfhiU1@mid.individual.net>

Some years ago I had the same problem.

I wrote a simple app with pygtk. You get get it from here:
   http://guettli.sourceforge.net/gthumpy/src/README.html
The next pictures get loaded in background. Switching from
one image to the next is faster then in some other apps. But
somehow it is not ready for the public. I guess I am the only
one who uses it.

Flags are symlinks in the home directory .local/share/app/gthumpy. This
means you should not move your images, otherwise the flags get lost.

I don't think it will work on ms-windows, but it could be ported.

Or you use mirage:
http://mirageiv.berlios.de/index.html

It is a pygtk image viewer. You can define shortcuts that execute user defined
commands.

  Thomas

samwyse schrieb:
> I have several thousand photographs that I need to quickly classify,
> all by myself.  After extensive searches, I have been unable to find
> anything to my liking, so desire to write something myself.  I'm
> thinking about displaying a photo and waiting for keystrokes to tag
> it; 'i' for interior, 'e' for exterior, etc., while hitting space or
> enter will advance to the next photo.  My big question is, what's the
> best way to display the photos.  I've used PIL in the past, but IIRC
> it uses an external program.  Pygame is the next obvious choice, but
> like PIL it requires an add-in.  That leaves Tkinter.  Has anyone used
> it to display .JPG files, perhaps with rescaling to fit my screen?
> How is its performance?  Is there any other possibilities that I've
> missed?  Thanks.


-- 
Thomas Guettler, http://www.thomas-guettler.de/
E-Mail: guettli (*) thomas-guettler + de


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Tue Aug 25 02:54:36 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:54:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python 2.6 still not giving memory back to the OS...
References:  
	<38581c40-b7ed-4dbf-a3af-33e1761ba7b0@r7g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> 
	<762603ba-0a4c-4504-94d9-34a8b1e3f9c3@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> 
	<4A88406C.3060609@v.loewis.de>
	
Message-ID: <64ac5a03-ebf2-4a78-8ada-9e2dc46c86ac@d9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 25, 2:08?am, Chris Withers  wrote:
> Martin v. L?wis wrote:
> > Today, there are two cases when malloc returns memory on a typical
> > Unix system (in particular, in Linux malloc):
> > a) if the malloc block block is small (below page size), it is allocated
> > ? ?from the brk heap, where it can only be returned if the last page of
> > ? ?that heap is completely free, and
> > b) if the block is large (multiple pages), it gets returned to the
> > ? ?system right away.
>
> > Case b) can only happen if the C malloc uses mmap to allocate large
> > blocks.
>
> I believe (and John will correct me if I'm wrong) that xlrd uses mmap,
> so why am I not seeing the memory being returned?

xlrd uses mmap to access the input file; this seems to have zero
correlation with "the C malloc uses mmap to allocate large blocks".


From nadia.helen.johnson at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 03:12:57 2009
From: nadia.helen.johnson at gmail.com (Nadia Johnson)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 00:12:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: elementtree
References: <3037e686-d552-4373-a822-75a43b274cca@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<4a923d8b$0$32664$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
	
Message-ID: <2b3279b4-ed91-4d46-823a-1bf89acf33fb@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 24, 7:29?pm, Dave Angel  wrote:
> Stefan Behnel wrote:
> > Hi,
>
> > elsa wrote:
>
> >> I know how to turn HTML into an ElementTree object
>
> > I don't. ;)
>
> > ElementTree doesn't have an HTML parser, so what do you use for parsing?
>
> >> but I don't know
> >> how to then view the structure of this object. Is there a method or
> >> module that you can give an ElementTree object to, and it returns some
> >> kind of graphical or printed representation of the tree? Otherwise, if
> >> you can't see you're tree's structure, how do you know what is a
> >> sensible way of iterating over the tree to access the info you need?
>
> > ElementTree has a tostring() method that returns a string. To get a pretty
> > printed representation, you can use the indent() function from this recipe:
>
> >http://effbot.org/zone/element-lib.htm#prettyprint
>
> > Stefan
>
> Perhaps the OP was referring to XHTML, which should be eligible for
> ElementTree. ?But could you tell me whether ElementTree is at all
> tolerant of malformed XML? ? Most HTML and XHTML I encounter in the wild
> is so ?buggy it's amazing it all works at all.
>
> DaveA

I used elementtidy, also available from effbot


From dirkmoors at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 03:54:34 2009
From: dirkmoors at gmail.com (gravityzoo-dmo)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 00:54:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python memory management <-> virtualized server environments
References: 
	
Message-ID: <5773f2ee-5654-4f82-82c5-7668eb419f36@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On 24 aug, 20:35, "Martin P. Hellwig" 
wrote:
> gravityzoo-dmo wrote:
> > Hello everyone,
>
> > I was wondering if anyone here has had any experience in running
> > Python in a virtualized server environment?
> > The reason I'm asking is the recent thing I noticed when running my
> > server application (written in Python + Twisted);
> > The memory of the server application seems to only grow, and not give
> > back memory space to the OS. I realize that this won't be a problem on
> > a single physical server, but I'm curious of the effect this behaviour
> > has on a virtualized environment.
> > Could anyone provide me with a little more insight please?
> > Thanks in advance!
>
> > Dirk
>
> Might help if you say which version of Python you are running, although
> I'm not a memory expert I do know there have been some changes between
> the versions.
>
> --
> MPHhttp://blog.dcuktec.com
> 'If consumed, best digested with added seasoning to own preference.'

Hi, I'm sorry, I forgot to post the version indeed.

The Python version I'm running is 2.5.2 (r252:60911, January 4 2009)
The Twisted version I'm running is 8.2.0, and I'm using the EPOLL-
Reactor (don't know if that matters)
The OS I'm running on is Debian version 2.6.26-2-686 (i686 GNU/Linux)

Is that enough info?

Best regards,
Dirk


From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Aug 25 04:03:57 2009
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 10:03:57 +0200
Subject: Putting together a larger matrix from smaller matrices
References: <0si695db7bm7rfelo9iud89d8vda32176r@4ax.com>
Message-ID: 

Matjaz Bezovnik wrote:

> This is something which is done often in FEM methods, and the alike.
> 
> I have matrix A of 3x3 elements, and B, of the same number of
> elements, 3x3.
> 
> What would be the most obvious way to assemble a matrix which:
> a11 a12 a13
> a21 a22 a23
> a31 a32 a33+b11 b12 b13
>                       b21 b22 b23
>                       b31 b32 b33
> 
> (the missing elements = zero)
> 
> (you see the pattern - if there was a third matrix C, it would
> "connect" to b33 on the main diagonal)

Unless there is a dedicated function:

partial = [...] # list of matrices of shape NxN

N = partial[0].shape[0]
width = N*len(partial)
b = numpy.zeros((width, width))

off = 0
for m in partial:
    b[off:off+N, off:off+N] = m
    off += N
print b

Peter




From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Tue Aug 25 04:09:06 2009
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 09:09:06 +0100
Subject: Python memory management <-> virtualized server environments
In-Reply-To: <5773f2ee-5654-4f82-82c5-7668eb419f36@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	<5773f2ee-5654-4f82-82c5-7668eb419f36@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3oSdnePt4Mu_AQ7XnZ2dnUVZ8j9i4p2d@bt.com>

gravityzoo-dmo wrote:
> On 24 aug, 20:35, "Martin P. Hellwig" 
> wrote:
>> gravityzoo-dmo wrote:
>>> Hello everyone,
>>> I was wondering if anyone here has had any experience in running
>>> Python in a virtualized server environment?
>>> The reason I'm asking is the recent thing I noticed when running my
>>> server application (written in Python + Twisted);
>>> The memory of the server application seems to only grow, and not give
>>> back memory space to the OS. I realize that this won't be a problem on
>>> a single physical server, but I'm curious of the effect this behaviour
>>> has on a virtualized environment.
>>> Could anyone provide me with a little more insight please?
>>> Thanks in advance!
>>> Dirk
>> Might help if you say which version of Python you are running, although
>> I'm not a memory expert I do know there have been some changes between
>> the versions.
>>
>> --
>> MPHhttp://blog.dcuktec.com
>> 'If consumed, best digested with added seasoning to own preference.'
> 
> Hi, I'm sorry, I forgot to post the version indeed.
> 
> The Python version I'm running is 2.5.2 (r252:60911, January 4 2009)
> The Twisted version I'm running is 8.2.0, and I'm using the EPOLL-
> Reactor (don't know if that matters)
> The OS I'm running on is Debian version 2.6.26-2-686 (i686 GNU/Linux)
> 
> Is that enough info?
> 
> Best regards,
> Dirk


According to Python 2.6 release document:
"To reduce memory usage, the garbage collector will now clear internal 
free lists when garbage-collecting the highest generation of objects. 
This may return memory to the operating system sooner."

Which might apply to your situation, but to be really sure you can only 
try it out :-)

-- 
MPH
http://blog.dcuktec.com
'If consumed, best digested with added seasoning to own preference.'


From pierre.gaillard at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 04:12:51 2009
From: pierre.gaillard at gmail.com (Pierre)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 01:12:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: matplotlib / backend
Message-ID: <5c24850b-462f-4d2e-9d75-e9317c093e5e@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I'm to plot some results but it doesn't work.
I got this error :

/usr/local/libre_rep/python-2.6.1/RHEL_5__x86_64/lib/python2.6/site-
packages/matplotlib/backends/__init__.py:41: UserWarning:
Your currently selected backend, 'agg' does not support show().
Please select a GUI backend in your matplotlibrc file ('/usr/local/
libre_rep/python-2.6.1/RHEL_5__x86_64/lib/python2.6/site-packages/
matplotlib/mpldata/matplotlibrc')
or with matplotlib.use()

Any idea to fix it ?

Thanks


From james.harris.1 at googlemail.com  Tue Aug 25 04:22:29 2009
From: james.harris.1 at googlemail.com (James Harris)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 01:22:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
References:  
	
	 
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com> 
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
	
	
	<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com> 
	
	
	
	
	<02a31f91$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <68540205-9970-41a2-b0b0-7b66a9865c9b@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>

On 25 Aug, 01:25, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:

> On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:23:06 -0700, James Harris wrote:

> > Sure but while I wouldn't normally want to type something as obscure as
> > 32"rst" into a file of data I might want to type 0xff00 or similar. That
> > is far clearer than 65280 in some cases.
>
> > My point was that int('ff00', 16) is OK for the programmer but cannot be
> > used generally as it includes a function call.
>
> No, it's the other way around. If you have *data*, whether entered at run
> time by the user or read from a file, you can easily pass it to a
> function to convert to an int. (In fact you have to do this anyway,
> because the data will be a string and you need an int.)
>
> If you want your data file to have values entered in hex, or oct, or even

You are looking at this the other way round from me and I'll explain
why I think this is important. I'm not talking about the *programmer*
prescribing how the user should enter the data but the *user* being
able to choose to prepare the data in a certain format - the format
which makes sense for the data being entered. Your way only works if
those fields in every row have the same format. That may be the case
sometimes but is not general.


> unary (1=one, 11=two, 111=three, 1111=four...) you can. There's no need
> to have the user enter int('ff00', 16) to get hex, just have them enter
> ff00.
>
> But when writing *code*, you want syntax which will accept integers in
> the most common bases (decimal, a distant second hex, an even more
> distant third octal, and way out on the horizon binary) without the
> runtime cost of a function call.

Be careful! When designing a language feature don't be too ready to
*tell* the users of that language what restrictions they want. Just
because the designer wants features with a certain frequency does not
mean that all users will have the same priorities. (If it is
impossible or unreasonable to support a feature then by all means
don't support it. But don't decide up-front before examining the
options that something in not personally appealing.)

James


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Tue Aug 25 04:28:11 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 10:28:11 +0200
Subject: Protecting against callbacks queuing up?
In-Reply-To: <4a92b290$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
References: <4a91db65$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
	
	<4a92b290$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
Message-ID: <200908251028.12047.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Monday 24 August 2009 17:32:23 Esben von Buchwald wrote:
> Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:

8< -------------- some stuff about an "after" call --------------------------
>
> I'm new to python, what is an after function and an after call? Couldn't
> find excact answer on google...? Do you have a link to some docs?

The after call is common in GUI stuff.

Here is a link to nice Tkinter manual - it is the first link if you google 
for:   tkinter "new mexico tech" shipman

www.nmt.edu/tcc/help/pubs/tkinter/

What after does is that it is like a normal call, except that it is not done 
immediately, but after some settable time, hence the "after".

- Hendrik


From thebiggestbangtheory at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 04:36:08 2009
From: thebiggestbangtheory at gmail.com (nickname)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 01:36:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: os.popen output different from native shell output
Message-ID: <8119e546-b54d-4e72-b8b7-d1f3d104670f@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

Hi all,
       I am a relative newbie to python, I am using os.popen to run an
ls command. The output that I get using the read() function is
different in look and feel from when I run the ls command natively
from the shell (not via python). I display the ouput via python by
using the print function on the variable that accepts the os.popen
().read() function.

For example:

output from native shell (as seen on the bash shell)

file1 file2 dir1(highlighted in blue color)
file3longnamewhichwillcausenextfiletoappearonnextline

file 4

output from python (as seen on the bash shell)

file1
file2
dir1 (no blue color)
file3longnamewhichwillcausenextfiletoappearonnextline
file4

Is there an easy way to "mirror" the output. When python displays the
output, how can it tell the bash shell that some of the entries are
directories and they should appear blue on the bash shell, and that
everything should not be appearing on 1 column only.

Thanks for any pointers.


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Tue Aug 25 04:52:55 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 01:52:55 -0700
Subject: os.popen output different from native shell output
In-Reply-To: <8119e546-b54d-4e72-b8b7-d1f3d104670f@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
References: <8119e546-b54d-4e72-b8b7-d1f3d104670f@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908250152y4e6a7fb8ke20f9aae28193b40@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 1:36 AM, nickname wrote:
> Hi all,
> ? ? ? I am a relative newbie to python, I am using os.popen to run an
> ls command. The output that I get using the read() function is
> different in look and feel from when I run the ls command natively
> from the shell (not via python). I display the ouput via python by
> using the print function on the variable that accepts the os.popen
> ().read() function.
>
> For example:
>
> output from native shell (as seen on the bash shell)
>
> file1 file2 dir1(highlighted in blue color)
> file3longnamewhichwillcausenextfiletoappearonnextline
>
> file 4
>
> output from python (as seen on the bash shell)
>
> file1
> file2
> dir1 (no blue color)
> file3longnamewhichwillcausenextfiletoappearonnextline
> file4
>
> Is there an easy way to "mirror" the output. When python displays the
> output, how can it tell the bash shell that some of the entries are
> directories and they should appear blue on the bash shell, and that
> everything should not be appearing on 1 column only.

I would assume the difference is caused by `ls` changing behavior (for
example, enabling/disabling colorization) based on whether its output
is going to a terminal or a pipe.

Is there a reason you can't use os.listdir() instead of running ls?:
http://docs.python.org/library/os.html#os.listdir

For the colorization, google for "ANSI color escape sequences"

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 05:08:31 2009
From: subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com (SUBHABRATA BANERJEE)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:38:31 +0530
Subject: Questions on XML
In-Reply-To: <200908231148.51151.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com>
References: <51b22a8c-54de-484e-9b3c-9baeb4498f69@q40g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	
	<97c638a50908221327ge57818ahc1bb4c9ad3eb186b@mail.gmail.com>
	<200908231148.51151.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <97c638a50908250208n3a81007n92b7507ca8515bf2@mail.gmail.com>

I was trying this. Looks perfectly fine. There must be something really
wrong. If you can reinstall Python 2.5.
>>> a1=raw_input("String")
String??

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 12:18 AM, Rami Chowdhury
wrote:

> My problem is with IDLE on Windows. When I try to type Bangla directly into
> the IDLE window I only get '?' characters, and repr() fails with a
> UnicodeDecodeError. I expect, though, that that's because of my specific
> installation / Windows issues, as it works fine on Fedora 10...
>
> > I do not get any problem in processing Hindi or Bangla or any Indian
> > language in Python it is perfectly fine.
> I have no problems either -- my issues are with IDLE, and only on Windows.
>
> ----
> Rami Chowdhury
> "Strangers are just friends who haven't had enough gin." -- Howdle's Saying
> 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)
>
>  On Saturday 22 August 2009 13:27:02 SUBHABRATA BANERJEE wrote:
> > Should I help you? If you answered my questions I am differing from your
> > view I do not get any problem in processing Hindi or Bangla or any Indian
> > language in Python it is perfectly fine.
> > Best Regards,
> > Subhabrata.
> >
> > On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 9:48 AM, Rami Chowdhury
> wrote:
> > > I am using primarily UTF-8 based strings, like Hindi or Bengali. Can I
> > >
> > >> use Python to help me in this regard?
> > >
> > > I can say from experience that Python on Windows (at least, Python 2.5
> on
> > > 32-bit Vista) works perfectly well with UTF-8 files containing Bangla.
> I
> > > have had trouble with working with the data in IDLE, however, which
> seems
> > > to prefer ASCII by default.
> > >
> > > -------------
> > > Rami Chowdhury
> > > "Never assume malice when stupidity will suffice." -- Hanlon's Razor
> > > 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Aug 21, 2009, at 19:15 , joy99 wrote:
> > >
> > >   Dear Group,
> > >
> > >> I like to convert some simple strings of natural language to XML. May
> > >> I use Python to do this? If any one can help me, on this.
> > >>
> > >> I am using primarily UTF-8 based strings, like Hindi or Bengali. Can I
> > >> use Python to help me in this regard?
> > >>
> > >> How can I learn good XML aspects of Python. If any one can kindly name
> > >> me a book or URL.
> > >>
> > >> I am using Python2.6 on Windows XP with IDLE as GUI.
> > >>
> > >> Best Regards,
> > >> Subhabrata.
> > >> --
> > >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
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From baloand at googlemail.com  Tue Aug 25 05:52:45 2009
From: baloand at googlemail.com (baloan)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 02:52:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: matplotlib / backend
References: <5c24850b-462f-4d2e-9d75-e9317c093e5e@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5480dbe7-d9cc-44fb-a6cb-b866c01cd545@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 25, 10:12?am, Pierre  wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm to plot some results but it doesn't work.
> I got this error :
>
> /usr/local/libre_rep/python-2.6.1/RHEL_5__x86_64/lib/python2.6/site-
> packages/matplotlib/backends/__init__.py:41: UserWarning:
> Your currently selected backend, 'agg' does not support show().
> Please select a GUI backend in your matplotlibrc file ('/usr/local/
> libre_rep/python-2.6.1/RHEL_5__x86_64/lib/python2.6/site-packages/
> matplotlib/mpldata/matplotlibrc')
> or with matplotlib.use()
>
> Any idea to fix it ?
>
> Thanks

Try:

import matplotlib
matplotlib.use('TkAgg')

before coding anything else

from the examples section of the matplotlib documentation
http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/examples/user_interfaces/embedding_in_tk.html


From hv at tbz-pariv.de  Tue Aug 25 06:18:59 2009
From: hv at tbz-pariv.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 12:18:59 +0200
Subject: os.popen output different from native shell output
In-Reply-To: <8119e546-b54d-4e72-b8b7-d1f3d104670f@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
References: <8119e546-b54d-4e72-b8b7-d1f3d104670f@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7fhs4jF2b5i5pU1@mid.individual.net>

hi,

you get the popen output like this:

user at unixhost> ls | cat


nickname schrieb:
> Hi all,
>        I am a relative newbie to python, I am using os.popen to run an
> ls command. The output that I get using the read() function is
> different in look and feel from when I run the ls command natively
> from the shell (not via python). I display the ouput via python by
> using the print function on the variable that accepts the os.popen
> ().read() function.
...

 Thomas


-- 
Thomas Guettler, http://www.thomas-guettler.de/
E-Mail: guettli (*) thomas-guettler + de


From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 06:28:44 2009
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 03:28:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: your favorite debugging tool?
References: 
Message-ID: <57d65219-8134-4c2e-9739-825a5ef450d0@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 22, 4:25?pm, Esmail  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> What is your favorite tool to help you debug your
> code?

The times when I would just use 'print' are long past. Nowadays I
spend lots of my time
with code written by others than myself. I use pdb all the time, and
now also ipdb
(ipdb is very cool if you are used to ipython).

  M.S.


From bbxx789_05ss at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 25 06:41:54 2009
From: bbxx789_05ss at yahoo.com (7stud)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 03:41:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: print() and unicode strings (python 3.1)
References: <4eda8137-7db9-4c39-a2c1-3477b071f7f6@x5g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<4a92b83b$0$27209$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	
	<4a92fb02$0$2582$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	
	
Message-ID: <84154e6e-c425-4b71-89e3-7d2877a19418@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 24, 10:09 pm, Ned Deily  wrote:
> In article
> ,
>
>
>
>  7stud  wrote:
> > On Aug 24, 2:41 pm, "Martin v. L?wis"  wrote:
> > > > I can't figure out a way to programatically set the encoding for
> > > > sys.stdout.  So where does that leave me?
>
> > > You should be setting the terminal encoding administratively, not
> > > programmatically.
>
> > The terminal encoding has always been utf-8.  It was not set
> > programmatically.
>
> > It seems to me that python 3.1's string handling is broken.
> > Apparently, in python 3.1 I am unable to explicitly set the encoding
> > of a string and print() it out with the result being human readable
> > text.  On the other hand, if I let python do the encoding implicitly,
> > python uses a codec I don't want it to.
>
> If you are running on a Unix-y system, check your locale settings (LANG,
> LC.*, et al).  I think you'll likely find that your locale is really not
> UTF-8.   The following was on Python 3.1 on OS X 10.5, similar results
> on Debian Linux:
>
> $ cat t3.py
> import sys
> print(sys.stdout.encoding)
> s = "?"
> print(s.encode("utf-8"))
> print(s)
>
> $ export LANG=en_US.UTF-8
> $ python3.1 t3.py
> UTF-8
> b'\xe2\x82\xac'
> ?
>
> $ export LANG=C
> $ python3.1 t3.py
> US-ASCII
> b'\xe2\x82\xac'
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "t3.py", line 7, in 
>     print(s)
> UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character '\u20ac' in
> position 0: ordinal not in range(128)
>
> --
>  Ned Deily,
>  n... at acm.org

Hi,

Thanks for the response.  My OS is mac osx 10.4.11.  I'm not really
sure how to check my locale settings.  Here is some stuff I tried:

$ echo $LANG

$ echo $LC_ALL

$ echo $LC_CTYPE

$ locale
LANG=
LC_COLLATE="C"
LC_CTYPE="C"
LC_MESSAGES="C"
LC_MONETARY="C"
LC_NUMERIC="C"
LC_TIME="C"
LC_ALL="C"

$man locale
...
...
...

ENVIRONMENT:
LANG
Used as a substitute for any unset LC_* variable.  If LANG is unset it
will act as if set to "C".  If any of LANG or LC_* are set to invalide
values locale acts as if they are all unset.

===========

As in your last example, my 'C' settings mean that an ascii codec is
used somewhere to encode() the unicode string.

--
The locale C or POSIX is a portable locale; its LC_CTYPE part
corresponds to the 7-bit ASCII character set.

http://linux.about.com/library/cmd/blcmdl3_setlocale.htm
--


Is this the way it works:


1) python sets the codec for sys.stdout to the LANG environment
variable.
2) It doesn't matter that my terminal's encoding is set to utf-8
because output has to pass through sys.stdout first.

So:

a) My terminal's environment is telling python(and all other programs
running in the terminal) that output sent to sys.stdout must be
encoded in ascii.
b) The solution is to set a LANG environment variable.


Why does echoing $LC_ALL or $LC_CTYPE just give me a blank string?


Previously, I've set environment variables that I want to be
permanent, e.g PATH, in ~/.bash_profile, so I did this:

~/.bash_profile:
--------------
...
...
LANG="en_US.UTF-8"
export LANG

and now python 3.1 acts like I expect it to:

-------
import locale
import sys

print(locale.getlocale(locale.LC_CTYPE))
print(sys.stdout.encoding)


s = "?"
print(s)

print(s.encode("utf-8"))

--output:--
('en_US', 'UTF8')
UTF-8
?
b'\xe2\x82\xac'
----------

In conclusion, as far as I can tell, if your python 3.1 program tries
to output a unicode string, and the unicode string cannot be encoded
by the codec specified in the user's LANG environment variable**, then
the user will get an encode error. Just because the programmer's
system can handle the output doesn't mean that another user's system
can.  I guess that's the way it goes: if a user's environment is
telling all programs that it only wants ascii output to go to the
screen(sys.stdout), you can't(or shouldn't) do anything about it.

**Or if the LANG environment variable is not present, then the codec
corresponding to the locale settings(C' corresponds to ascii).

some good locale info:
http://www.chemie.fu-berlin.de/chemnet/use/info/libc/libc_19.html


From bbarbero at inescporto.pt  Tue Aug 25 06:57:07 2009
From: bbarbero at inescporto.pt (bbarbero at inescporto.pt)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 12:57:07 +0200
Subject: unexpected token `;'
Message-ID: <20090825125707.96162cpxx4xdaglf@horde.inescporto.pt>

Hello to all!

I am struggling with a script in python for a while now, and decided  
to look for some help. I am running a code that takes commands from  
Marsyas(open source for Music analysis).

#!/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/bin/python2.6
#!/bin/bashimport math
import re
import numpy
import string
import os.path
import sys
import commands



l =  
"/Users/bmorab/Audio_Projecto/Data/Palco/PP3_44_distance_matrix/PP3_44_5.mf"

Col = open(l, 'r')
colist= []
songlist = []
for line in Col:
         #print line
         song = os.path.split(line)[1]
         #print song
         songlist.append(song)
         colist.append(line)



cmd = "sfplay " + colist[2]
print cmd
fileout = commands.getoutput(cmd)
print fileout



It basically reads song files from the .mf file, stores them in a list  
and play  one of the songs from the list. It does work with some music  
but mostly it gives an error like this:

sfplay  
/Volumes/HAL/Datasets/Audio/PalcoPrincipal/mp3_resampled_44100/10005.mp3

sh: -c: line 1: syntax error near unexpected token `;'
sh: -c: line 1: `; } 2>&1'


Ive been searching for the meaning of the error, and It really depends  
on the script, but I would conclude that I am missing a punctuation  
mark??

Thank you very much for taking your time reading my request.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Regards,
Bea


----------------------------------------------------------------
This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.


From mmelchert03 at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 25 07:24:37 2009
From: mmelchert03 at yahoo.com (mmelchert)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:24:37 +0200
Subject: unexpected token `;'
References: 
Message-ID: <4a93c9f6$0$2370$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

bbarbero at inescporto.pt wrote:

> Hello to all!
> 
> I am struggling with a script in python for a while now, and decided
> to look for some help. I am running a code that takes commands from
> Marsyas(open source for Music analysis).
> 
> #!/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/bin/python2.6
> #!/bin/bashimport math  <<==
> import re
> import numpy

have a close look at the <<== line: I think you wanted it to read
import math rather than #!/bin/bashimport math?



From aotto1968 at users.sourceforge.net  Tue Aug 25 07:24:37 2009
From: aotto1968 at users.sourceforge.net (Andreas Otto)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:24:37 +0200
Subject: problem to write a THREAD enabled python extension
References: 
	<4a92af50$0$32675$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: 

Stefan Behnel wrote:

> 
> You forgot to create a thread state for the new thread. See the
> PyThreadState_New() function.
> 

this does not really solve the problem even if the original error does no 
happen anymore ...

but a bucket of other error happen >>> sometimes <<< and this mean
that time and (I call it so) internal state stuff has influence on the 
problem and create errors like:

 1. http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-January/242740.html
 2. various PyThreadState_Get -> PyThreadState_Get: no current thread
 3. sometimes ThreadState has NULL sometimes not and NULL create an
     CORE for "tstate" pointer access operations
 4. ... a lot of other problems too

all problems together I come to the conclusion:

 1. I spend ~ 1week for a job done in C# or java in a day - and have no
     usable solution
 2. python need a couple of 100+ C API function for the same job
     java need 10+
 3. the design on the C-API is amateurish -> significant parts are
     implemented as GLOBAL variables
 4. the thread support is not more than a joke -> go to 3
 5. after pay a lot of effort to get something working the final solution 
     is significant slower than C# or JAVA
 6. you can not truss any-thing in python because you never know
     if under some circumstance you get a CORE 
 
the resulting PYTHON code is usable but not significant more readable
as JAVA, C* or even C++ code


mfg

  aotto1968



From feliphil at gmx.net  Tue Aug 25 07:24:39 2009
From: feliphil at gmx.net (Wolfgang Keller)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:24:39 +0200
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
References: 
Message-ID: <20090825132439.d6cb18ca.feliphil@gmx.net>

> I need controls for business apps like access to databases, good data
> grid, printing reports (with or without barcodes), etc.

The area of _desktop_ database application development indeed looks like a vast and very hostile desert in the Python landscape.

The only framework that seems to be worth trying is Dabo. Unfortunately there's little documentation, and that's mostly outdated.

There's also Kiwi, but that's even less well documented.

And GNU Enterprise essentially seems to be dead.

Sincerely,

Wolfgang

-- 
NO "Courtesy Copies" PLEASE!


From deets at nospam.web.de  Tue Aug 25 07:25:04 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:25:04 +0200
Subject: unexpected token `;'
References: 
Message-ID: <7fi00gF2kr205U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

bbarbero at inescporto.pt wrote:

> Hello to all!
> 
> I am struggling with a script in python for a while now, and decided
> to look for some help. I am running a code that takes commands from
> Marsyas(open source for Music analysis).
> 
> #!/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/bin/python2.6
> #!/bin/bashimport math

This is bogus. Replace it with

  #!/usr/bin/python

and put the "import math" on the next line.

Diez


From markonlinux at internode.on.net  Tue Aug 25 07:26:40 2009
From: markonlinux at internode.on.net (Mark)
Date: 25 Aug 2009 11:26:40 GMT
Subject: can python make web applications?
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <02a3ba7c$0$18215$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:45:17 +0100, Goke Aruna wrote:

> A lot check this fantastic open source application,
> http://www.openerp.com, all done is python.

That does look impressive. Is that Django or Turbogears?


-- 
Mark


From gslindstrom at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 07:28:40 2009
From: gslindstrom at gmail.com (Greg Lindstrom)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 06:28:40 -0500
Subject: PyCon 2010 - Call for Tutorials
Message-ID: 

The period to submit proposals for PyCon 2010 in Atlanta, Georgia (USA) is
now open and will close on October 18.  Tutorials are 3-hour long classes on
a specific Python technique, package or technology and are taught by members
of the Python community.  If you have knowledge in a particular topic and
would like to be considered to teach a class we invite you to submit a
proposal outlining the material you would like to cover.  Once we receive
your proposal, we will "score" it based on content and then select 24
classes (subject to change) for presentation.

Class instructors will be paid $1000.00 per class.  If a class has more than
one teacher, the fee will be split between them.

Interested?  Click on over to the Tutorial Proposal
Pageto see more
details, examples of classes that have been requested in the
past (though you are free to submit a proposal on anything Python), an
example proposal and an empty template to help you prepare your own
proposal.  Once complete, email your proposal to
pycon-tutorials at python.orgso we can get it out to the evaluation
committee and get you on your way to
being a PyCon

Questions?  You can contact us at the PyCon Email
Listand we will get back with you.

We look forward to hearing from you!

Greg Lindstrom
Tutorial Coordinator
PyCon 2010 (Atlanta)
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From piet at cs.uu.nl  Tue Aug 25 07:33:02 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:33:02 +0200
Subject: basic thread question
References: <20090818201015.GP20434@dragontoe.org>
	
	<4a922086$0$1619$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	
	
	
	<4224e772-5b67-4eea-9bdf-a7d2bf7cc128@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<864e2d5f-0855-4f35-a78c-b09054e75f0d@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

>>>>> sturlamolden  (s) wrote:

>s> On 25 Aug, 01:26, Piet van Oostrum  wrote:
>>> That's because it doesn't use copy-on-write. Thereby losing most of its
>>> advantages. I don't know SUA, but I have vaguely heard about it.

>s> SUA is a version of UNIX hidden inside Windows Vista and Windows 7
>s> (except in Home and Home Premium), but very few seem to know of it.
>s> SUA (Subsystem for Unix based Applications) is formerly known as
>s> Interix, which is a certified version of UNIX based on OpenBSD. If you
>s> go to http://www.interopsystems.com (a website run by Interop Systems
>s> Inc., a company owned by Microsoft), you will find a lot of common
>s> unix tools prebuilt for SUA, including Python 2.6.2.

>s> The NT-kernel supports copy-on-write fork with a special system call
>s> (ZwCreateProcess in ntdll.dll), which is what SUA's implementation of
>s> fork() uses.

I have heard about that also, but is there a Python implementation that
uses this? (Just curious, I am not using Windows.)
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From nobody at nowhere.com  Tue Aug 25 07:34:59 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 12:34:59 +0100
Subject: web frameworks that support Python 3
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 23 Aug 2009 16:32:09 -0400, Albert Hopkins wrote:

> What's different about Python 3 is that there is only unicode strings,
> whereas Python 2 has a string type and a unicode type.

Python 2 has "str" (char) and "unicode" (wchar) types.

Python 3 has "bytes" (char) and "str" (wchar) types.

The main difference is that Python 3 uses unicode "by default", i.e.
string literals are unicode rather than byte strings, variables
such as sys.argv and os.environ contain unicode strings, etc.

There are other differences, e.g.:

+ Passing a "bytes" object where "str" is expected will raise an exception
rather than using an automatic conversion
+ Subscripting a "bytes" object returns an integer between 0 and 255
+ upper(), isalpha(), etc assume ASCII rather than the system encoding



From nobody at nowhere.com  Tue Aug 25 07:47:54 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 12:47:54 +0100
Subject: sgmllib.py
References: 
	<4a923c57$0$32664$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:08:07 +0200, Stefan Behnel wrote:

> But note that sgmllib is a particularly cumbersome way to deal with HTML.

Mostly because it only provides a tokeniser, not a parser. Whoever wrote
it doesn't appear to understand the difference.



From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Tue Aug 25 07:50:59 2009
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 07:50:59 -0400
Subject: unexpected token `;'
In-Reply-To: <7fi00gF2kr205U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: 
	<7fi00gF2kr205U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 7:25 AM, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

>
> > Hello to all!
> >
> > I am struggling with a script in python for a while now, and decided
> > to look for some help. I am running a code that takes commands from
> > Marsyas(open source for Music analysis).
> >
> > #!/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/bin/python2.6
> > #!/bin/bashimport math
>
> This is bogus. Replace it with
>
>  #!/usr/bin/python
>
> and put the "import math" on the next line.
>


> Diez


It's not bogus. That is perfectly legitimate for using the user-installed
Python2.6 on OS X. /usr/bin/ is reserved for system programs on that
platform so it will always point to the system python install, which is
2.5.1 on Leopard and 2.3.5 on Tiger. That being said, the #!/bin/bash line
is what's screwing it up.
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From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Aug 25 07:51:24 2009
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:51:24 +0200
Subject: unexpected token `;'
References: 
Message-ID: 

bbarbero at inescporto.pt wrote:

> I am struggling with a script in python for a while now, and decided
> to look for some help. I am running a code that takes commands from
> Marsyas(open source for Music analysis).

> cmd = "sfplay " + colist[2]
> print cmd
> fileout = commands.getoutput(cmd)

You have to ensure here that characters that have a special meaning for the 
shell are escaped correctly. The best approach is probably to use subprocess 
instead of commands:

fileoutput = subprocess.Popen(["sfplay", colist[2]],
    stdout=subprocess.PIPE, 
    stderr=subprocess.STDOUT).communicate()[0]                                                        

Peter



From ebonak at hotmail.com  Tue Aug 25 07:55:22 2009
From: ebonak at hotmail.com (Esmail)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 07:55:22 -0400
Subject: your favorite debugging tool?
In-Reply-To: <7xocq5vx64.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: 
	<7xocq5vx64.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: 

Paul Rubin wrote:
> Esmail  writes:
>> What is your favorite tool to help you debug your
>> code? I've been getting along with 'print' statements
>> but that is getting old and somewhat cumbersome.
> 
> Beyond print statements, I use pdb a lot.  Winpdb (www.winpdb.org) is
> even better, but is kind of cumbersome to get working.

Hi,

2 quick questions.

Re pdb, if you have a 'pointer' (ie reference) to an object, is there
an easy way to dump out its contents, ie all of its members short of
writing a method that does that and then calling it?

Anyone know what is going on with the winpdb site? I haven't been able to
get to it in the last few days.

Thanks,
Esmail



From ebonak at hotmail.com  Tue Aug 25 07:55:56 2009
From: ebonak at hotmail.com (Esmail)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 07:55:56 -0400
Subject: your favorite debugging tool?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<7xocq5vx64.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Robert Marshall wrote:
> On 24 Aug 2009, Paul Rubin wrote:
> 
>> Esmail  writes:
>>> What is your favorite tool to help you debug your
>>> code? I've been getting along with 'print' statements
>>> but that is getting old and somewhat cumbersome.
>> Beyond print statements, I use pdb a lot.  Winpdb (www.winpdb.org) is
>> even better, but is kind of cumbersome to get working.
> 
> And you can run it (pdb) within emacs - though I find a little roughness
> in working out the exact interactions keeps ending up (ie the source
> buffer displayed) in the wrong stack frame - afaict

Thanks Robert, I'll have to give that a try.

Esmail



From ebonak at hotmail.com  Tue Aug 25 07:57:26 2009
From: ebonak at hotmail.com (Esmail)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 07:57:26 -0400
Subject: your favorite debugging tool?
In-Reply-To: <57d65219-8134-4c2e-9739-825a5ef450d0@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<57d65219-8134-4c2e-9739-825a5ef450d0@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Michele Simionato wrote:
> On Aug 22, 4:25 pm, Esmail  wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> What is your favorite tool to help you debug your
>> code?
> 
> The times when I would just use 'print' are long past. Nowadays I
> spend lots of my time
> with code written by others than myself. I use pdb all the time, and
> now also ipdb
> (ipdb is very cool if you are used to ipython).

Never heard of ipdb, I'll have to check it out.

Thanks,
Esmail



From dmw at coder.cl  Tue Aug 25 08:08:02 2009
From: dmw at coder.cl (Daniel Molina Wegener)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 08:08:02 -0400
Subject: [ANN] pyxser-1.2r --- Python-Object to XML serialization module
References: <2571343.k9db9GJWqV@coder.cl>
	<4a923e50$0$32664$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
	<2665032.o6QR52tnKS@coder.cl>
	<4a928ed7$0$32666$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
	<1685404.FXBiJzzPRc@coder.cl>
	<4a937266$0$31337$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
	<4a937546$0$31332$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <1731852.i11Z6b9PKs@coder.cl>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Stefan Behnel 
on Tuesday 25 August 2009 01:23
wrote in comp.lang.python:


> Stefan Behnel wrote:
>> for all byte
>> strings, regardless of their encoding (since you can't even know if they
>> represent encoded text at all).
> 
> Hmm, having written that, I guess it's actually best to encode byte
> strings as base64 instead. Otherwise, null bytes and other special byte
> values won't pass.

  Sure, base64 is a good option for byte string input.

> 
> I also think that if the user wants readable output for text strings, it's
> reasonable to require Unicode input instead of byte strings. Handling text
> in byte strings is just too error prone.
> 
> Still, you may have to sanitize text input to make sure it doesn't contain
> special characters either. Take a look at the way lxml does it in the
> apihelpers.pxi source file, or read the XML spec on character content.

  Thanks, I will look for that. I must to do a better implementation on
handling byte strings, since would be many cases on where encoded strings
are mixed. For example different database inputs with different
encodings --- if those byte strings are not readed as Unicode strings.

  Both sanitizing and base64 encoding are good options, and also, both are
readable from other platforms. The problem with later implementations of
pyxser was that it was using *RawUnicodeEscape* which is not readable from
other platforms.

> 
> Stefan

Best regards,
- -- 
 .O. | Daniel Molina Wegener   | FreeBSD & Linux
 ..O | dmw [at] coder [dot] cl | Open Standards
 OOO | http://coder.cl/        | FOSS Developer
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From walterbyrd at iname.com  Tue Aug 25 08:28:31 2009
From: walterbyrd at iname.com (walterbyrd)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 05:28:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Would there be work for a sysadmin who specializes in python?
Message-ID: 

If I took the time to really learn to use python for sysadmin work,
would I be able to find jobs, or even contract jobs?

>From what I am seeing on the job boards etc., I would have to say no.
It looks to me as though I could possibly do that with perl, but not
python.

Of course, I could be missing something. Job board ads can be
deceptive.


From ryniek90 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 08:29:27 2009
From: ryniek90 at gmail.com (ryniek)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 05:29:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Temat:, Re: IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename: 
	in windows xp while making tarfile
References:  
	<4A928B4B.9030502@gmail.com> <4A92A57A.5010105@dejaviewphoto.com> 
	
	<4ec18c68-b8b5-401e-b910-802b7662dced@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<321b8396-0806-4a1a-9a32-efbb147e6b4b@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> 
	 
	
Message-ID: <62ee06b6-4d8b-4033-828a-bad0bd6ea329@r42g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On 25 Sie, 07:33, Dennis Lee Bieber  wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:23:41 -0700 (PDT), ryniek 
> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>
> > C:\Users\Ryniek's WinSe7en\Documents\My Dropbox\Aplikacje
> > \Moje_aplikacje\Pythonowe_aplikacje\Skrypty>python ba
> > ckuper.py -f E:\APLIKACJE\nowegg.exe E:\ MyGG
>
> ? ? ? ? 
>
> > OSError: [Errno 22] Invalid argument: 'E:\\MyGG(2009-08-24
> > 23:18:25).tar.bz2'
> > "
>
> ? ? ? ? WHERE in your program are you creating that file name? Based upon
> the invocation line, all you are supplying is the E:\MyGG part...
> Somewhere you are creating a timestamp and attaching that to the prefix.
>
> ? ? ? ? THAT is where you need to get rid of the colons -- the ones in the
> timestamp. Instead of 23:18:25 (or whatever the next run generates) you
> want something like 23_18_25...
> --
> ? ? ? ? Wulfraed ? ? ? ? Dennis Lee Bieber ? ? ? ? ? ? ? KD6MOG
> ? ? ? ? wlfr... at ix.netcom.com ? ? ?HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

Yep, i realized that it were THOSE colons. Thanks very much.
I think i must work on my perceptivity  : P

Thanks again.


From nobody at nowhere.com  Tue Aug 25 08:34:33 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:34:33 +0100
Subject: print() and unicode strings (python 3.1)
References: <4eda8137-7db9-4c39-a2c1-3477b071f7f6@x5g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<4a92b83b$0$27209$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	
	<4a92fb02$0$2582$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	
	
	<84154e6e-c425-4b71-89e3-7d2877a19418@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 03:41:54 -0700, 7stud wrote:

> Why does echoing $LC_ALL or $LC_CTYPE just give me a blank string?

Because the variables aren't set.

The default locale for a particular category (e.g. LC_CTYPE) is taken from
$LC_ALL if that is set, otherwise $LC_CTYPE, otherwise $LANG, otherwise
"C" is used.

Normally, you would either set LANG (and possibly some individual LC_*
variables), or LC_ALL. There's no point in setting all of them.

> In conclusion, as far as I can tell, if your python 3.1 program tries
> to output a unicode string, and the unicode string cannot be encoded
> by the codec specified in the user's LANG environment variable**, then
> the user will get an encode error. Just because the programmer's
> system can handle the output doesn't mean that another user's system
> can.  I guess that's the way it goes: if a user's environment is
> telling all programs that it only wants ascii output to go to the
> screen(sys.stdout), you can't(or shouldn't) do anything about it.
> 
> **Or if the LANG environment variable is not present, then the codec
> corresponding to the locale settings(C' corresponds to ascii).

The underlying OS primitive can only handle bytes. If you read or write a
(unicode) string, Python needs to know which encoding is used. For Python
file objects created by the user (via open() etc), you can specify the
encoding; for those created by the runtime (e.g. sys.stdin), Python uses
the locale's LC_CTYPE category to select an encoding.

Data written to or read from text streams is encoded or decoded using the
stream's encoding. Filenames are encoded and decoded using the
filesystem encoding (sys.getfilesystemencoding()). Anything else uses the
default encoding (sys.getdefaultencoding()).

In Python 3, text streams are handled using io.TextIOWrapper:

	http://docs.python.org/3.1/library/io.html#text-i-o

This implements a stream which can read and/or write text data on top of
one which can read and/or write binary data. The sys.std{in,out,err}
streams are instances of TextIOWrapper. You can get the underlying
binary stream from the "buffer" attribute, e.g.:

	sys.stdout.buffer.write(b'hello world\n')

If you need to force a specific encoding (e.g. if the user has specified
an encoding via a command-line option), you can detach the existing
wrapper and create a new one, e.g.:

	sys.stdout = io.TextIOWrapper(sys.stdout.detach(), encoding = new_encoding)



From ebonak at hotmail.com  Tue Aug 25 08:40:24 2009
From: ebonak at hotmail.com (Esmail)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 08:40:24 -0400
Subject: Would there be work for a sysadmin who specializes in python?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

walterbyrd wrote:
> If I took the time to really learn to use python for sysadmin work,
> would I be able to find jobs, or even contract jobs?
> 

FWIW, I think one of the qualities of a good system admin would be the ability
to work with a variety of tools and languages and not focus on one particular
language. Though Perl (not a favorite of mine at all :) seems to be quite
popular for admin type work, and of course knowing some sort of shell
programming etc would come in handy.



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Aug 25 08:44:47 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 22:44:47 +1000
Subject: your favorite debugging tool?
References: 
	
Message-ID: <87ws4sf4g0.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Esmail  writes:

> While I do believe in a minimalist approach (part of the reason I find
> Python so appealing), using print statements sometimes only goes so
> far (for me).

Right, which is where the Python interactive interpreter (which I failed
to mention in my initial response) comes in as my favourite debugging
tool.

-- 
 \     ?When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. |
  `\    Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole |
_o__)                   one and asked Him to forgive me.? ?Emo Philips |
Ben Finney


From ebonak at hotmail.com  Tue Aug 25 08:51:06 2009
From: ebonak at hotmail.com (Esmail)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 08:51:06 -0400
Subject: your favorite debugging tool?
In-Reply-To: <87vdkfiaki.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: 
	<87vdkfiaki.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: 

Hi Ben,

Ben Finney wrote:
> 
> Whenever a simple output statement is too cumbersome for debugging, I
> take it as a sign that the program is too cumbersome to follow.

I'll have to think about this .. though my gut says this is true :-)

re your other point about the interactive shell, I agree it's useful, but
to me still doesn't quite do what a full-fledged debugger can - but perhaps
that is a reflection of my skill with the shell at this point.

Always more to learn.

Esmail



From hniksic at xemacs.org  Tue Aug 25 09:03:12 2009
From: hniksic at xemacs.org (Hrvoje Niksic)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:03:12 +0200
Subject: proposal: add setresuid() system call to python
In-Reply-To: <20090821205040.GK1215@subspacefield.org> (travis's message of
	"Fri, 21 Aug 2009 15:50:40 -0500")
References: <20090717200141.GI6065@subspacefield.org>
	<148918f0907171315i4ed5b274v77581a43c4464f8f@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<7cj89qF27mfrjU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<877hy38mxw.fsf@busola.homelinux.net>
	<20090821205040.GK1215@subspacefield.org>
Message-ID: <87d46kdp0v.fsf@busola.homelinux.net>

travis+ml-python at subspacefield.org writes:

> On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 04:10:35PM +0200, Hrvoje Niksic wrote:
>> To emulate the os-module-type calls, it's better to raise exceptions
>> than return negative values:
>> 
>> > def setresuid(ruid, euid, suid):
>> >     return _setresuid(__uid_t(ruid), __uid_t(euid), __uid_t(suid))
>> 
>> def setresuid(ruid, euid, suid):
>>     res = _setresuid(__uid_t(ruid), __uid_t(euid), __uid_t(suid))
>>     if res < 0:
>>         raise OSError('[Errno %d] %s' % (os.errno, errno.strerror(os.errno)))
>
> I am working on a module to implement all of this, but that raise command
> won't work in Python 2.6.1; it turns out that os.errno is a module, not
> an integer.  Does anyone know how to do what I want (that is, how to access
> the errno set in C functions)?

You should use ctypes.get_errno() instead of os.errno; sorry about that.

Also, when raising OSError, you should set the 'errno' attribute to the
appropriate code.


From nobody at nowhere.com  Tue Aug 25 09:16:23 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:16:23 +0100
Subject: os.popen output different from native shell output
References: <8119e546-b54d-4e72-b8b7-d1f3d104670f@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 01:36:08 -0700, nickname wrote:

>        I am a relative newbie to python, I am using os.popen to run an
> ls command. The output that I get using the read() function is
> different in look and feel from when I run the ls command natively
> from the shell (not via python).

As others have pointed out, the default behaviour of ls is different if
its output is a terminal.

> Is there an easy way to "mirror" the output. When python displays the
> output, how can it tell the bash shell that some of the entries are
> directories and they should appear blue on the bash shell, and that
> everything should not be appearing on 1 column only.

You can get the terminal-style behaviour even when using a pipe with:

	ls -x --color

But why are you reading this information into Python then writing it
back out to the terminal?

If you're planning on processing the output within Python, both the
multi-column format and the escape sequences used for colour will make
such processing awkward.

If you want to enumerate the contents of a directory within Python, use
os.listdir().

If you want to generate coloured output, use the curses module, e.g.:

#!/usr/bin/env python

import sys
import curses

curses.setupterm()
setaf = curses.tigetstr('setaf') or ""
setab = curses.tigetstr('setab') or ""
origp = curses.tigetstr('op') or ""

def fg(c):
    sys.stdout.write(curses.tparm(setaf, c))

def bg(c):
    sys.stdout.write(curses.tparm(setab, c))

def orig():
    sys.stdout.write(origp)

# example
bg(curses.COLOR_BLUE)
fg(curses.COLOR_YELLOW)
print "hello, world"
orig()



From find.mig at paa.google  Tue Aug 25 09:21:16 2009
From: find.mig at paa.google (Esben von Buchwald)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:21:16 +0200
Subject: Protecting against callbacks queuing up?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4a91db65$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>		<4a92b290$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
	
Message-ID: <4a93e575$0$298$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:32:23 +0200, Esben von Buchwald
>  declaimed the following in
> gmane.comp.python.general:
> 
>> I'm new to python, what is an after function and an after call? Couldn't 
>> find excact answer on google...? Do you have a link to some docs?
> 
> 	They would be particular to whatever GUI/event library is in use.
> They aren't part of Python itself.

This is how the accelerometer is accessed
http://pys60.garage.maemo.org/doc/s60/node59.html

I found this called "after"...
http://pys60.garage.maemo.org/doc/s60/node12.html

would that be usable?

If so, how?


From kkuNOTHISmer at thatsearchenginesmail.com  Tue Aug 25 09:30:28 2009
From: kkuNOTHISmer at thatsearchenginesmail.com (Kreso)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:30:28 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Items inheriting attributes from its container?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

Jan Kaliszewski  wrote:
[...]


Great! Thanks to all of you for advices and code.

K.


From brentb at beanfield.com  Tue Aug 25 09:42:00 2009
From: brentb at beanfield.com (Brent Bloxam)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 09:42:00 -0400
Subject: Would there be work for a sysadmin who specializes in python?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A93EA28.8060703@beanfield.com>

walterbyrd wrote:
> If I took the time to really learn to use python for sysadmin work,
> would I be able to find jobs, or even contract jobs?
> 
>>From what I am seeing on the job boards etc., I would have to say no.
> It looks to me as though I could possibly do that with perl, but not
> python.
> 
> Of course, I could be missing something. Job board ads can be
> deceptive.

Being a system admin is about being able to handle to many different 
situations, and your tasks can often include automating various things 
and writing tools. Depending on the sort of place you're working in and 
the size of the IT department, you could find yourself doing a lot of 
work that lies outside of the standard job description for a system 
administrator. If you're looking to start out in the field, it would be 
better to have general knowledge, and as you gain experience you can 
begin to specialize.

Being adaptable is key, so specializing in python probably won't gain 
you any ground as a system administrator. That being said, knowing 
python will mean you have another tool in your chest, which is 
definitely a good thing. If there's one thing I'd recommend, if you're 
not going to focus on a windows environment, would be to at least get 
perl under your belt as well.


From jkpeck at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 10:02:36 2009
From: jkpeck at gmail.com (JKPeck)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 07:02:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: csv module and None values
References: 
	
	<23c02daf-dc5a-4676-8d73-9dc63791825f@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4006702e-14c5-4917-b76f-906233cad71e@k30g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 24, 10:43?pm, John Yeung  wrote:
> On Aug 24, 5:00?pm, Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
>
> > If I understand you correctly the csv.writer already does
> > what you want:
>
> > >>> w.writerow([1,None,2])
> > 1,,2
>
> > just sequential commas, but that is the special treatment.
> > Without it the None value would be converted to a string
> > and the line would look like this one:
>
> > 1,None,2
>
> No, I think he means he is getting
>
> >>> w.writerow([1,None,2])
>
> 1,"",2
>
> He evidently wants to quote "all" strings, but doesn't want None to be
> considered a string.
>
> John

Exactly so.  The requirement of the receiving program, which is out of
my control, is that all strings be quoted but a None in a numeric
field result in the ,, output rather than "".  Excel quotes strings
conditionally, which doesn't do what is needed in this case.  For
QUOTE_NONNUMERIC to quote None values makes some sense, but it gets in
the way of representing missing values in a numeric field.  It would
be nice to have a choice here in the dialects.

I thought of replacing the None values with float(nan), since that has
a numeric type, but unfortunately that results in writing the string
(unquoted) nan for the value.  So the sentinel approach seems to be
the best I can do.

Thanks,
Jon


From chris0wj at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 10:14:12 2009
From: chris0wj at gmail.com (Chris)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 07:14:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: multiprocessing managers and socket connection.
Message-ID: <722664f1-81af-45da-ae40-070bca8f3ee0@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

I've been using multiprocessing managers and I really like the
functionality.

I have a question about reconnecting to a manager. I have a situation
where I start on one machine (A) a manager that is listening and then
on another machine (B) connects to that manager and uses its proxy
object to call functions on the manager's computer; this all works as
expected. But, if the manager from A shuts down, B's application won't
notice because in the MP code it ignores socket error
errno.ECONNREFUSED. If A becomes available again or is restarted, B
doesn't automatically reconnect either and continue its operation.
It's function is basically stopped.

Here is the code from connection.py:
while 1:
        try:
            s.connect(address)
        except socket.error, e:
            if e.args[0] != errno.ECONNREFUSED: # connection refused
                debug('failed to connect to address %s', address)
                raise
            time.sleep(0.01)
        else:
            break

How can I have B automatically reconnect to A and continue its work
once A is available again?


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Tue Aug 25 10:14:49 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 25 Aug 2009 14:14:49 GMT
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
References: 
	
	
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
	
	
	<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com>
	
	
	
	
	<02a31f91$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<44bcb727-0885-4d4f-9c11-ca60a39b0d91@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <02a3e1e2$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:01:38 -0700, Mensanator wrote:

>> If you want your data file to have values entered in hex, or oct, or
>> even unary (1=one, 11=two, 111=three, 1111=four...) you can.
> 
> Unary? I think you'll find that Standard Positional Number Systems are
> not defined for radix 1.

Of course not. But unary isn't a positional number system. It's a tally 
system, like my example above shows. Roman numerals are another tally 
system. Like Roman numerals, the disadvantages of unary are that you 
can't represent negative numbers, zero, or fractions, and anything but 
addition and subtraction is difficult. But if you want to use it, perhaps 
out of a sense of sadism towards your users, it's easy:

def int2unary(n):
    return '1'*n

def unary2int(s):
    n = 0
    for c in s:
        if c == '1': n+=1
        else: raise ValueError('invalid unary string')
    return n



-- 
Steven


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Aug 25 10:27:40 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:27:40 +0200
Subject: your favorite debugging tool?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<87vdkfiaki.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
Message-ID: <4A93F4DC.3090708@sequans.com>

Esmail wrote:
> Hi Ben,
>
> Ben Finney wrote:
>>
>> Whenever a simple output statement is too cumbersome for debugging, I
>> take it as a sign that the program is too cumbersome to follow.
>
> I'll have to think about this .. though my gut says this is true :-)
>
That is not always true. When it comes to implement complex tasks, you 
can't always avoid writing complex code. Python does not get your code 
more complex than your algorithm, but it cannot always simplify it.

Ben is right when he says that code can often be written in a more 
simpler manner, but they are some occasions when you have to write 
complex code, that the print debug statement won't be efficient enough 
to sort things out. I personally develop/maintain a full application 
written in python (and quite complex for some parts), using the ipdb 
debugger just saved my hours (days) of headache about some very 
difficult bug to spot
> re your other point about the interactive shell, I agree it's useful, but
> to me still doesn't quite do what a full-fledged debugger can - but 
> perhaps
> that is a reflection of my skill with the shell at this point.
>
> Always more to learn.
>
> Esmail
>

90% of the time, print statements + ipython shell will do the trick. The 
post mortem debugging is also very useful. Execute your  python file in 
ipython, then when it exits upon exception, execute
 >>> import pdb ; pdb.pm()
You can then inspect the symbols easily.

JM


From ryniek90 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 10:37:21 2009
From: ryniek90 at gmail.com (Ryniek90)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:37:21 +0200
Subject: TypeError: _getfullpathname() argument 1 must be (buffer overflow),
	not str  in windows xp, while making tarfile
Message-ID: <4A93F721.10104@gmail.com>

Referring to my earlier posts:
http://groups.google.pl/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/4e34f995800f5352?hl=pl

and

http://groups.google.pl/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/abf5573b8fceb37e?hl=pl#

I've dealt with those errors. but now have another.
When my backup scripts starts to backup chosen file, python gave me 
Traceback:

"
C:\Users\Ryniek's WinSe7en\Documents\My 
Dropbox\Aplikacje\Moje_aplikacje\Pythonowe_aplikacje\Skrypty>python ba
ckuper.py -f F:\APLIKACJE\nowegg.exe F:\ MyGGBackup
Checking permissions for reading and writing...
Have permissions on [F:\APLIKACJE\nowegg.exe] for reading.
Have permissions on [F:\] for writing.
Preparing for backup [nowegg.exe]...
Starting backup...
Now adding [nowegg.exe]...
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "backuper.py", line 197, in 
    main_meth()
  File "backuper.py", line 189, in main_meth
    paq.backup_file(pars.options.filename[0], pars.options.filename[1], 
pars.options.filename[2])
  File "backuper.py", line 127, in backup_file
    backup_obj.add(read_bin_obj)
  File "E:\WinSe7en Apps\APLIKACJE\ActiveState Python 
2.6\lib\tarfile.py", line 1948, in add
    if self.name is not None and os.path.abspath(name) == self.name:
  File "E:\WinSe7en Apps\APLIKACJE\ActiveState Python 
2.6\lib\ntpath.py", line 458, in abspath
    path = _getfullpathname(path)
TypeError: _getfullpathname() argument 1 must be (buffer overflow), not str
"

I've searched over google, but found only that is bug in Python ( 
http://bugs.python.org/issue4071  - in that issue bug is inside Python 
2.5.2 - i've got ActiveState Active Python with core Python 2.6.2), and 
another  info:   *http://tinyurl.com/lvyn7o  and **http://tinyurl.com/kn49vk
*

Here's my script code:
*http://paste.ubuntu.com/259310/

*Shouldn't that bug be patched already  :-?


From chris at simplistix.co.uk  Tue Aug 25 10:45:53 2009
From: chris at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:45:53 +0100
Subject: inconsistent sitecustomize.py importing...
Message-ID: <4A93F921.9080904@simplistix.co.uk>

Hi All,

Give this sitecustomize.py:

print "ping"

...and this script:

#!/usr/local/bin/python2.5
print "pong!"

...both in ~/folder, I would expect the output from:

~$./folder/script

...to be:

ping
pong

...but sitecustomize.py is not imported :-(

If I do:

~$/usr/local/bin/python2.5 folder/script

...still no import.

However, if I do:

~/folder$/usr/local/bin/python2.5 script

...sitecustomize.py IS imported!

What gives?!

Chris

-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting
            - http://www.simplistix.co.uk


From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Aug 25 10:49:07 2009
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:49:07 +0200
Subject: csv module and None values
References: 
	
	<23c02daf-dc5a-4676-8d73-9dc63791825f@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<4006702e-14c5-4917-b76f-906233cad71e@k30g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

JKPeck wrote:

> On Aug 24, 10:43 pm, John Yeung  wrote:
>> On Aug 24, 5:00 pm, Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
>>
>> > If I understand you correctly the csv.writer already does
>> > what you want:
>>
>> > >>> w.writerow([1,None,2])
>> > 1,,2
>>
>> > just sequential commas, but that is the special treatment.
>> > Without it the None value would be converted to a string
>> > and the line would look like this one:
>>
>> > 1,None,2
>>
>> No, I think he means he is getting
>>
>> >>> w.writerow([1,None,2])
>>
>> 1,"",2
>>
>> He evidently wants to quote "all" strings, but doesn't want None to be
>> considered a string.
>>
>> John
> 
> Exactly so.  The requirement of the receiving program, which is out of
> my control, is that all strings be quoted but a None in a numeric
> field result in the ,, output rather than "".  Excel quotes strings
> conditionally, which doesn't do what is needed in this case.  For
> QUOTE_NONNUMERIC to quote None values makes some sense, but it gets in
> the way of representing missing values in a numeric field.  It would
> be nice to have a choice here in the dialects.
> 
> I thought of replacing the None values with float(nan), since that has
> a numeric type, but unfortunately that results in writing the string
> (unquoted) nan for the value.  So the sentinel approach seems to be
> the best I can do.

How about:

>>> import csv, sys
>>> class N(int):
...     def __str__(self): return ""
...
>>> pseudo_none = N()
>>> w = csv.writer(sys.stdout, quoting=csv.QUOTE_NONNUMERIC)
>>> w.writerow([1, "foo", pseudo_none, "bar"])
1,"foo",,"bar"

Peter



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Aug 25 10:49:56 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 00:49:56 +1000
Subject: your favorite debugging tool?
References: 
	<87vdkfiaki.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
Message-ID: <87skfgeynf.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Esmail  writes:

> Hi Ben,
>
> Ben Finney wrote:
> >
> > Whenever a simple output statement is too cumbersome for debugging, I
> > take it as a sign that the program is too cumbersome to follow.
>
> I'll have to think about this .. though my gut says this is true :-)

Note that it's only a sign, *not* an ironclad guarantee. But it's the
right way to bet, IME.

> re your other point about the interactive shell, I agree it's useful,
> but to me still doesn't quite do what a full-fledged debugger can -
> but perhaps that is a reflection of my skill with the shell at this
> point.

This, on the other hand, I find even more consistent: if the code can't
be effectively inspected from the interactive interpreter, that's a sure
sign that its external interfaces are poor or its internal dependencies
too tightly coupled; or more likely both.

Fixing that set of problems is both useful for debugging *and* good
design.

-- 
 \         ?Alternative explanations are always welcome in science, if |
  `\   they are better and explain more. Alternative explanations that |
_o__) explain nothing are not welcome.? ?Victor J. Stenger, 2001-11-05 |
Ben Finney


From chris at simplistix.co.uk  Tue Aug 25 10:53:03 2009
From: chris at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:53:03 +0100
Subject: Even more inconsistent sitecustomize.py importing with PYTHONPATH
	rolled in...
In-Reply-To: <4A93F921.9080904@simplistix.co.uk>
References: <4A93F921.9080904@simplistix.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4A93FACF.9000608@simplistix.co.uk>

Chris Withers wrote:
> However, if I do:
> 
> ~/folder$/usr/local/bin/python2.5 script
> 
> ...sitecustomize.py IS imported!

However, the following doesn't import sitecustomize.py:

~/folder$ ./script

While the following DOES import sitecustomize.py:

~/folder$ export PYTHONPATH=
~/folder$ ./script

Bizarrely, none of the following import sitecustomize.py:

~$ export PYTHONPATH=~/folder
~$ ./script

~$ export PYTHONPATH=~/folder/
~$ ./script

~$ export PYTHONPATH=~/folder
~/folder$ ./script

~$ export PYTHONPATH=~/folder/
~/folder$ ./script

Does anyone have any clue why there's such a huge level of inconsistency 
here?!

Chris

-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting
            - http://www.simplistix.co.uk


From chris at simplistix.co.uk  Tue Aug 25 11:05:14 2009
From: chris at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:05:14 +0100
Subject: Even more inconsistent sitecustomize.py importing with PYTHONPATH
	rolled in...
In-Reply-To: <4A93FACF.9000608@simplistix.co.uk>
References: <4A93F921.9080904@simplistix.co.uk>
	<4A93FACF.9000608@simplistix.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4A93FDAA.2050206@simplistix.co.uk>

Chris Withers wrote:
> Bizarrely, none of the following import sitecustomize.py:
> 
> ~$ export PYTHONPATH=~/folder
> ~$ ./script
> 
> ~$ export PYTHONPATH=~/folder/
> ~$ ./script
> 
> ~$ export PYTHONPATH=~/folder
> ~/folder$ ./script
> 
> ~$ export PYTHONPATH=~/folder/
> ~/folder$ ./script

Okay, brain fail on my part, these do work, the others are still as 
described though...

Chris

-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting
            - http://www.simplistix.co.uk


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Tue Aug 25 11:26:44 2009
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 08:26:44 -0700
Subject: Putting together a larger matrix from smaller matrices
In-Reply-To: <0si695db7bm7rfelo9iud89d8vda32176r@4ax.com>
References: <0si695db7bm7rfelo9iud89d8vda32176r@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <95-dnVK31vsFnQnXnZ2dnUVZ_qmdnZ2d@pdx.net>

Matjaz Bezovnik wrote:

If you are using numpy (which it sounds like you are):

IDLE 2.6.2
 >>> import numpy as np
 >>> v = np.array([[0,1,2],[3,4,5],[6,7,8]], dtype=float)
 >>> v
array([[ 0.,  1.,  2.],
        [ 3.,  4.,  5.],
        [ 6.,  7.,  8.]])
 >>> w = np.array([[10,11,12],[13,14,15],[16,17,18]], dtype=float)
 >>> w
array([[ 10.,  11.,  12.],
        [ 13.,  14.,  15.],
        [ 16.,  17.,  18.]])
 >>> r = np.zeros((6,6))
 >>> r
array([[ 0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.],
        [ 0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.],
        [ 0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.],
        [ 0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.],
        [ 0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.],
        [ 0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.]])
 >>> r[:3,:3] = v
 >>> r
array([[ 0.,  1.,  2.,  0.,  0.,  0.],
        [ 3.,  4.,  5.,  0.,  0.,  0.],
        [ 6.,  7.,  8.,  0.,  0.,  0.],
        [ 0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.],
        [ 0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.],
        [ 0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.]])
 >>> r[3:,3:] = w
 >>> r
array([[  0.,   1.,   2.,   0.,   0.,   0.],
        [  3.,   4.,   5.,   0.,   0.,   0.],
        [  6.,   7.,   8.,   0.,   0.,   0.],
        [  0.,   0.,   0.,  10.,  11.,  12.],
        [  0.,   0.,   0.,  13.,  14.,  15.],
        [  0.,   0.,   0.,  16.,  17.,  18.]])
 >>>

In general, make the right-sized array of zeros, and at various points:
and you can ssign to subranges of the result array:

     N = 3
     result = np.zeros((len(parts) * N, len(parts) * N), dtype=float)
     for n, chunk in enumerate(parts):
         base = n * 3
         result[base : base + 3, base : base + 3] = chunk

--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Tue Aug 25 11:28:31 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 25 Aug 2009 15:28:31 GMT
Subject: inconsistent sitecustomize.py importing...
References: 
Message-ID: <02a3f329$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:45:53 +0100, Chris Withers wrote:

> Hi All,
> 
> Give this sitecustomize.py:
[...]
> What gives?!

Perhaps this?

http://bugs.python.org/issue1734860


-- 
Steven


From no.email at please.post  Tue Aug 25 11:33:26 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:33:26 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
Message-ID: 




I have many years of programming experience, and a few languages,
under my belt, but still Python scoping rules remain mysterious to
me.  (In fact, Python's scoping behavior is the main reason I gave
up several earlier attempts to learn Python.)

Here's a toy example illustrating what I mean.  It's a simplification
of a real-life coding situation, in which I need to initialize a
"private" class variable by using a recursive helper function.

class Demo(object):
    def fact(n):
        if n < 2:
            return 1
        else:
            return n * fact(n - 1)

    _classvar = fact(5)

This code fails to compile, with the error "global name 'fact' not
defined".

Scanning the Python Language Reference page I see nothing that
would suggest to me a discussion of Python's scoping rules, let
alone anything that would help me solve the specific problem above.
I'm sure it's in there, *somewhere*, but it's anyone's guess where.

Likewise, my book, Beazley's "Python: Essential Reference" is of
no help.  I don't doubt that the answer to my question "is in there,
*somewhere*", but finding it (without reading the book sequentially
from page 1) is a tall order.

All that's left is trial-and-error, the worst kind of programming.
And still I can't find the right way to do this...  I've tried
every variant of this code that I can imagine, including decorating
fact with @staticmethod or @classmethod, etc., etc.  (In the latter
case, I get cryptic errors saying that the staticmethod or classmethod
object is not callable.  Or something like that.)

Needless to say, I'm pretty beat by this point.  Any help would be
appreciated.

Thanks,

kynn


From mbezovnik at freenet.si  Tue Aug 25 11:37:09 2009
From: mbezovnik at freenet.si (Matjaz Bezovnik)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 17:37:09 +0200
Subject: Putting together a larger matrix from smaller matrices
References: <0si695db7bm7rfelo9iud89d8vda32176r@4ax.com>
	<95-dnVK31vsFnQnXnZ2dnUVZ_qmdnZ2d@pdx.net>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 08:26:44 -0700, Scott David Daniels
 wrote:

>Matjaz Bezovnik wrote:
>
>If you are using numpy (which it sounds like you are):
>
>IDLE 2.6.2
> >>> import numpy as np
> >>> v = np.array([[0,1,2],[3,4,5],[6,7,8]], dtype=float)
> >>> v
>array([[ 0.,  1.,  2.],
>        [ 3.,  4.,  5.],
>        [ 6.,  7.,  8.]])
> >>> w = np.array([[10,11,12],[13,14,15],[16,17,18]], dtype=float)
> >>> w
>array([[ 10.,  11.,  12.],
>        [ 13.,  14.,  15.],
>        [ 16.,  17.,  18.]])
> >>> r = np.zeros((6,6))
> >>> r
>array([[ 0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.],
>        [ 0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.],
>        [ 0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.],
>        [ 0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.],
>        [ 0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.],
>        [ 0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.]])
> >>> r[:3,:3] = v
> >>> r
>array([[ 0.,  1.,  2.,  0.,  0.,  0.],
>        [ 3.,  4.,  5.,  0.,  0.,  0.],
>        [ 6.,  7.,  8.,  0.,  0.,  0.],
>        [ 0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.],
>        [ 0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.],
>        [ 0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.]])
> >>> r[3:,3:] = w
> >>> r
>array([[  0.,   1.,   2.,   0.,   0.,   0.],
>        [  3.,   4.,   5.,   0.,   0.,   0.],
>        [  6.,   7.,   8.,   0.,   0.,   0.],
>        [  0.,   0.,   0.,  10.,  11.,  12.],
>        [  0.,   0.,   0.,  13.,  14.,  15.],
>        [  0.,   0.,   0.,  16.,  17.,  18.]])
> >>>
>
>In general, make the right-sized array of zeros, and at various points:
>and you can ssign to subranges of the result array:
>
>     N = 3
>     result = np.zeros((len(parts) * N, len(parts) * N), dtype=float)
>     for n, chunk in enumerate(parts):
>         base = n * 3
>         result[base : base + 3, base : base + 3] = chunk
>
>--Scott David Daniels
>Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org



Scott, thank you very much for the snippet.

It is exactly what I looked for; simple to read and obvious as to what
it does even a month later to a non-pythonist!

Matjaz


From ndbecker2 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 11:49:03 2009
From: ndbecker2 at gmail.com (Neal Becker)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 11:49:03 -0400
Subject: Graph library recommendations for large graphs
References: 
Message-ID: 

VanL wrote:

> I am working on a project that will require building and querying large
> graph objects (initially 8M nodes, 30-40M edges; eventually 40M nodes,
> 100M edges). NetworkX seems to be the most popular, but I am concerned
> that a dict representation for nodes would use too much memory -- my
> initial tests suggest that a graph with 3M nodes and 12M edges creates
> substantial memory pressure on my machine.
> 
> Can anybody who has worked with large graphs before give a recommendation?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Van
> 
How about python-igraph?



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Tue Aug 25 12:00:35 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 17:00:35 +0100
Subject: TypeError: _getfullpathname() argument 1 must be (buffer
	overflow), not str  in windows xp, while making tarfile
In-Reply-To: <4A93F721.10104@gmail.com>
References: <4A93F721.10104@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A940AA3.8080003@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Ryniek90 wrote:
> Referring to my earlier posts:
> http://groups.google.pl/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/4e34f995800f5352?hl=pl 
> 
> 
> and
> 
> http://groups.google.pl/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/abf5573b8fceb37e?hl=pl# 
> 
> 
> I've dealt with those errors. but now have another.
> When my backup scripts starts to backup chosen file, python gave me 
> Traceback:
> 
> "
> C:\Users\Ryniek's WinSe7en\Documents\My 
> Dropbox\Aplikacje\Moje_aplikacje\Pythonowe_aplikacje\Skrypty>python ba
> ckuper.py -f F:\APLIKACJE\nowegg.exe F:\ MyGGBackup
> Checking permissions for reading and writing...
> Have permissions on [F:\APLIKACJE\nowegg.exe] for reading.
> Have permissions on [F:\] for writing.
> Preparing for backup [nowegg.exe]...
> Starting backup...
> Now adding [nowegg.exe]...
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "backuper.py", line 197, in 
>    main_meth()
>  File "backuper.py", line 189, in main_meth
>    paq.backup_file(pars.options.filename[0], pars.options.filename[1], 
> pars.options.filename[2])
>  File "backuper.py", line 127, in backup_file
>    backup_obj.add(read_bin_obj)
>  File "E:\WinSe7en Apps\APLIKACJE\ActiveState Python 
> 2.6\lib\tarfile.py", line 1948, in add
>    if self.name is not None and os.path.abspath(name) == self.name:
>  File "E:\WinSe7en Apps\APLIKACJE\ActiveState Python 2.6\lib\ntpath.py", 
> line 458, in abspath
>    path = _getfullpathname(path)
> TypeError: _getfullpathname() argument 1 must be (buffer overflow), not str
> "
> 
> I've searched over google, but found only that is bug in Python ( 
> http://bugs.python.org/issue4071  - in that issue bug is inside Python 
> 2.5.2 - i've got ActiveState Active Python with core Python 2.6.2), and 
> another  info:   *http://tinyurl.com/lvyn7o  and 
> **http://tinyurl.com/kn49vk
> *
> 
> Here's my script code:
> *http://paste.ubuntu.com/259310/
> 
> *Shouldn't that bug be patched already  :-?
Are you giving it the contents of the file when it's actually expecting
the filename?


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Tue Aug 25 12:02:31 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 18:02:31 +0200
Subject: Protecting against callbacks queuing up?
In-Reply-To: <4a93e575$0$298$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
References: <4a91db65$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
	
	<4a93e575$0$298$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
Message-ID: <200908251802.31556.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Tuesday 25 August 2009 15:21:16 Esben von Buchwald wrote:
> Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> > On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:32:23 +0200, Esben von Buchwald
> >  declaimed the following in
> >
> > gmane.comp.python.general:
> >> I'm new to python, what is an after function and an after call? Couldn't
> >> find excact answer on google...? Do you have a link to some docs?
> >
> > 	They would be particular to whatever GUI/event library is in use.
> > They aren't part of Python itself.
>
> This is how the accelerometer is accessed
> http://pys60.garage.maemo.org/doc/s60/node59.html
>
> I found this called "after"...
> http://pys60.garage.maemo.org/doc/s60/node12.html
>
> would that be usable?
Probably
>
> If so, how?

This is a guess, for your device,  but I suspect
something along these lines:

t = Ao_timer()

cb = t.after(100,thing_that_does_the_work(with_its_arguments))

Lots of assumptions here - the 100 should give you a tenth of a second...
Don't know what the arguments look like, and if you need to pass an instance 
(like self) - that would depend on where you are calling it from.

Play and see :-)

You should also be able to cancel the callback like this:

t.cancel(cb)

If you do it before the time out

- Hendrik



From nicola.larosa at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 12:06:37 2009
From: nicola.larosa at gmail.com (Nicola Larosa (tekNico))
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 09:06:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Code formatting question: conditional expression
References: 
Message-ID: <421c8c9d-efb5-4e70-9321-51736b42bc9a@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

John Posner wrote:
> Is there any consensus on how to format a conditional expression
> that is too long for one line?

Here's my take:

    excessblk = Block(total - P.BASE, srccol,
carry_button_suppress=True
        ) if total > P.BASE else None

--
Nicola Larosa - http://www.tekNico.net/

Nobody knows everything, and nobody is expected to be perfect
in the Ubuntu community (except of course the SABDFL).
 - https://launchpad.net/codeofconduct/1.0


From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Tue Aug 25 12:09:09 2009
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 17:09:09 +0100
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <9t2dnVFZo-g4kQnXnZ2dnUVZ8uidnZ2d@bt.com>

kj wrote:

> 
> Here's a toy example illustrating what I mean.  It's a simplification
> of a real-life coding situation, in which I need to initialize a
> "private" class variable by using a recursive helper function.

eh?

> 
> class Demo(object):
>     def fact(n):
>         if n < 2:
>             return 1
>         else:
>             return n * fact(n - 1)
> 
>     _classvar = fact(5)
> 

Sorry still doesn't make sense, I'll give it a try though:

class Demo(object):
     """Apparently a 'real-life coding situation'"""
     def __init__(self):
         # Look at http://docs.python.org/tutorial/classes.html
         # for init explanation.
         self.__class_var = self.fact(5)

     def fact(self, number):
         """Look at http://docs.python.org/tutorial/classes.html why you 
need
         self."""
         if number < 2:
             return(1)
         else:
             return_value = number * self.fact(number -1)
             return(return_value)


TEST = Demo()
# Print the 'private' class variable
print(TEST._Demo__class_var)

-- 
MPH
http://blog.dcuktec.com
'If consumed, best digested with added seasoning to own preference.'


From garrickp at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 12:11:47 2009
From: garrickp at gmail.com (Falcolas)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 09:11:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: your favorite debugging tool?
References:  
	
	
Message-ID: <97f6dd5f-ffa7-4d73-8545-378301a5f6e1@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 23, 1:21?am, Hendrik van Rooyen 
wrote:
> On Saturday 22 August 2009 16:49:22 Aahz wrote:
>
> > In article ,
>
> > Esmail ? wrote:
> > >What is your favorite tool to help you debug your code? I've been
> > >getting along with 'print' statements but that is getting old and
> > >somewhat cumbersome.
>
> > Despite the fact that I've been using Python for more than a decade,
> > print is still my mainstay (or possibly logging to a file).
>
> Same here, although I have not been abusing python for as long as Aahz has
> been using it.
>
> ...
>
> And the final arbiter is of course the interactive prompt.
>
> - Hendrik

The only thing I would add to these comments is the fact that writing
helper functions for using print with complicated routines is very
simple, though perhaps not obvious. For example, consider the
following for unrolling list comprehensions or generators without
having to re-write them:

def trace(iterable):
    for x in iterable:
        print x
        yield x

~G


From deets at nospam.web.de  Tue Aug 25 12:14:26 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 18:14:26 +0200
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
Message-ID: <7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

kj wrote:

> 
> 
> 
> I have many years of programming experience, and a few languages,
> under my belt, but still Python scoping rules remain mysterious to
> me.  (In fact, Python's scoping behavior is the main reason I gave
> up several earlier attempts to learn Python.)
> 
> Here's a toy example illustrating what I mean.  It's a simplification
> of a real-life coding situation, in which I need to initialize a
> "private" class variable by using a recursive helper function.
> 
> class Demo(object):
>     def fact(n):
>         if n < 2:
>             return 1
>         else:
>             return n * fact(n - 1)
> 
>     _classvar = fact(5)
> 
> This code fails to compile, with the error "global name 'fact' not
> defined".
> 
> Scanning the Python Language Reference page I see nothing that
> would suggest to me a discussion of Python's scoping rules, let
> alone anything that would help me solve the specific problem above.
> I'm sure it's in there, *somewhere*, but it's anyone's guess where.
> 
> Likewise, my book, Beazley's "Python: Essential Reference" is of
> no help.  I don't doubt that the answer to my question "is in there,
> *somewhere*", but finding it (without reading the book sequentially
> from page 1) is a tall order.
> 
> All that's left is trial-and-error, the worst kind of programming.
> And still I can't find the right way to do this...  I've tried
> every variant of this code that I can imagine, including decorating
> fact with @staticmethod or @classmethod, etc., etc.  (In the latter
> case, I get cryptic errors saying that the staticmethod or classmethod
> object is not callable.  Or something like that.)

Classes are not scopes. 

So the above doesn't work because name resolution inside functions/methods
looks for local variables first, then for the *global* scope. There is no
class-scope-lookup.

If you want anything else, you need to qualify it with a full name,
Demo.fact. Which isn't working for your example because "Demo" isn't
available yet.

But if you insist on the above methodology, you can do this:


class Demo(object):

    def fact(n):
        def inner(n):
            if n < 2:
                return 1
            else:
                return n * inner(n - 1)
        return inner(n)

    _classvar = fact(5)

This makes inner a *local* variable, which is found.

Diez



From gordon at panix.com  Tue Aug 25 12:19:33 2009
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:19:33 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Web Services examples using "raw" xml?
References: 
	<4a936e84$0$31337$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: 

In <4a936e84$0$31337$9b4e6d93 at newsspool4.arcor-online.net> Stefan Behnel  writes:

> > I tried WSDL.Proxy() from the SOAPpy package and eventually end up
> > with this error:
> > 
> > xml.parsers.expat.ExpatError: not well-formed (invalid token): line 1, column 6

> Is that while parsing the WSDL file? Have you tried pushing it through an
> XML parser yourself (or opening it with an XML editor) to see if it really
> is XML?

The 'invalid token' error happens if the argument to WSDL.Proxy() is a
string containing a URL beginning with https.  (It doesn't happen with a
http URL, but I'm stuck with https.)

As a next step, I grabbed the content from the https url in a browser,
saved it to a file, inserted it into the python code as a large string,
and passed that string to WSDL.Proxy().

That produced a KeyError 'targetNamespace' from this snippet of XML:

  
    
  

I looked at the code and it apparently requires that the parent tag of
 have a targetNamespace attribute.  So I made one up and added
it, like so:

  

I have no idea if this was the right thing to do, but it did let me advance
to the next error:

  Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "soappytest.py", line 1020, in ?
    server = jrgWSDL.Proxy(wsdlFile)
  File "/home/gordonj/wsdl/jrgSOAPpy/jrgWSDL.py", line 75, in __init__
    service = self.wsdl.services[0]
  File "/home/gordonj/wsdl/jrgwstools/Utility.py", line 631, in __getitem__
    return self.list[key]
IndexError: list index out of range

After poking around in the code a bit more, I think that self.wsdl.services
is supposed to be a collection of all the services offered by the wsdl, but
it's actually empty, which is why it throws an error when it tries to
access the first element.

So that's where I'm stuck at the moment.  I have no idea why
self.wsdl.services isn't getting populated correctly -- or even if that's
the real problem!

Any suggestions?

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Aug 25 12:36:28 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 18:36:28 +0200
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A94130C.9050809@sequans.com>

kj wrote:
>
> I have many years of programming experience, and a few languages,
> under my belt, but still Python scoping rules remain mysterious to
> me.  (In fact, Python's scoping behavior is the main reason I gave
> up several earlier attempts to learn Python.)
>
> Here's a toy example illustrating what I mean.  It's a simplification
> of a real-life coding situation, in which I need to initialize a
> "private" class variable by using a recursive helper function.
>
> class Demo(object):
>     def fact(n):
>         if n < 2:
>             return 1
>         else:
>             return n * fact(n - 1)
>
>     _classvar = fact(5)
>
> This code fails to compile, with the error "global name 'fact' not
> defined".
>   
[snip]

fact is defined within the Demo class, so to access it, you'll need to 
prefix it with Demo:

_classvar = Demo.fact(5).

The problem is, Demo will raise a NameError exception.
The solution is pretty simple, cause your fact function seems to be 
unrelated to the Demo class :

def _fact(n):
    # some code

class Demo(object):
    _classvar = _fact(5)


It may happen that you *want* your fact within the Demo, in you example 
it's not that obvious, but I think Java would allow such following patern:

class Color:
    def __init__(self, r, g,b):
          pass
    BLACK = Color(0,0,0)

It make sens from a design point of view to put BLACK in the Color 
namespace. But I don't think it's possible with python.
You could trick the system using inheritance:

class Chrome:
    def __init__(self, r,g,b)
       pass
Putting all your code in the Chrome class then:

class Color(Chrome):
    BLACK = Chrome(0,0,0)

I'm not sure this is satisfying.

JM


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Aug 25 12:47:20 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 18:47:20 +0200
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: <7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <4A941598.3000207@sequans.com>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote
> Classes are not scopes. 
>
>   
Too bad, could have been handy.

JM


From contact at xavierho.com  Tue Aug 25 12:55:41 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 02:55:41 +1000
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: <4A94130C.9050809@sequans.com>
References:  <4A94130C.9050809@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908250955h6aedb3efp52168a719bfaf5e5@mail.gmail.com>

I'm not really quite sure what voodoo I did here, but my code seems to work
in Python 3.1.1 in the following way:

class Demo(object):
    def func(self, n):
        return n * 5
    _f = func(None, 5)

d = Demo()
print(d._f)
print(d.func(5))

# OUTPUT
25
25

So, hmm?

Regards,

Ching-Yun "Xavier" Ho, Technical Artist

Contact Information
Mobile: (+61) 04 3335 4748
Skype ID: SpaXe85
Email: contact at xavierho.com
Website: http://xavierho.com/
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From deets at nospam.web.de  Tue Aug 25 12:55:41 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 18:55:41 +0200
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
Message-ID: <7fijcdF2kheecU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:

> Diez B. Roggisch wrote
>> Classes are not scopes.
>>
>>   
> Too bad, could have been handy.

Nope. Because then a lot of people would write something like this:


class Foo(object):


   def bar(self):
       bar() # note the missing self.


And this would lead to errors because self was missing from the call
to "bar".

And you'd need a disambiguation for methodname/global-name-clashes. The
global-statement would work, but then code could break when all  of a
sudden a subclass defines a method that hitherto was only known as global.
So via subclassing, you introduce *arbitray* and hard to debug errors.

No. I'm certain, not a good idea.

Diez


From contact at xavierho.com  Tue Aug 25 12:58:58 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 02:58:58 +1000
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: <7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908250958q96905caw4185c20b9e12cd33@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 2:14 AM, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

>
> Classes are not scopes.
>
> So the above doesn't work because name resolution inside functions/methods
> looks for local variables first, then for the *global* scope. There is no
> class-scope-lookup.


Sorry, I'm coming here with sincere ignorance. If local variables and global
variables are not "scopes", then what would it be?

Cheers,
-Xav
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From sdementen at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 13:25:27 2009
From: sdementen at gmail.com (seb)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 10:25:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: conditional for-statement
References:  
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 23, 11:02?pm, Chris Rebert  wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 1:36 PM, seb wrote:
> > On Aug 23, 6:18?pm, John Posner  wrote:
> >> >> Hi,
>
> >> >> i was wondering if there is a syntax alike:
>
> >> >> for i in range(10) if i > 5:
> >> >> ? ? print i
>
> >> > You can write
>
> >> > for i in filter(lambda i: i > 5, range(10)):
> >> > ? ? print i
>
> >> > but
>
> >> > for i in range(10):
> >> > ? ? if i > 5:
> >> > ? ? ? ? print i
>
> >> > it' better readable, and
>
> >> > for i in range(6,10):
> >> > ? ? print i
>
> >> > it's event better.
>
> >> How about using a generator expression instead of a list?
>
> >> ? for i in (x for x in range(10) if x > 5):
> >> ? ? ? print i
>
> >> -John
>
> > Indeed, but we could have the same syntax than for generators but
> > directly in the for statement as in
> > for variable in generator if condition:
> > ? ?body
>
> > Is there a special reason for not doing so ? A rejected PEP ?
>
> It's not been added since it's completely unnecessary (see the several
> alternatives already presented by others).
> There have been a few other mailinglist threads on adding essentially
> the same syntax. None have proved fruitful.
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --http://blog.rebertia.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

On Aug 23, 11:02 pm, Chris Rebert  wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 1:36 PM, seb wrote:
> > On Aug 23, 6:18 pm, John Posner  wrote:
> >> >> Hi,
>
> >> >> i was wondering if there is a syntax alike:
>
> >> >> for i in range(10) if i > 5:
> >> >>     print i
>
> >> > You can write
>
> >> > for i in filter(lambda i: i > 5, range(10)):
> >> >     print i
>
> >> > but
>
> >> > for i in range(10):
> >> >     if i > 5:
> >> >         print i
>
> >> > it' better readable, and
>
> >> > for i in range(6,10):
> >> >     print i
>
> >> > it's event better.
>
> >> How about using a generator expression instead of a list?
>
> >>   for i in (x for x in range(10) if x > 5):
> >>       print i
>
> >> -John
>
> > Indeed, but we could have the same syntax than for generators but
> > directly in the for statement as in
> > for variable in generator if condition:
> >    body
>
> > Is there a special reason for not doing so ? A rejected PEP ?
>
> It's not been added since it's completely unnecessary (see the several
> alternatives already presented by others).
> There have been a few other mailinglist threads on adding essentially
> the same syntax. None have proved fruitful.
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --http://blog.rebertia.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Tx Chris for your reply !

i am still a bit puzzle by the following.

I read in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Python_syntax_and_semantics#Generators

"""Python 3.0 unifies all collection types by introducing dict and set
comprehensions, similar to list comprehensions:

>>> [ n*n for n in range(5) ] # regular list comprehension
[0, 1, 4, 9, 16]
>>>
>>> { n*n for n in range(5) } # set comprehension
{0, 1, 4, 16, 9}
>>>
>>> { n: n*n for n in range(5) } # dict comprehension
{0: 0, 1: 1, 2: 4, 3: 9, 4: 16}
"""
and we can add to this list the quite similar syntax for generator
expressions.

On all these loop constructs, one can consistenly add filtering on a
condition by adding an "if ..." after the "for ... in ..." part (and
it looks to me difficult to argue, for instance, that we should not
allow filtering for dict comprehesion because we could get the same
result by some other construct)

If the "if ..." part after the "for ... in ..." is so much used in all
these list/dict/set comprehensions and in the generator expressions,
it makes sense to me to have it also for the "for as a statement"
syntax :
[ n*n for n in range(10) if n%3 == 0]
{ n*n for n in range(10) if n%3 == 0}
{ n: n*n for n in range(10) if n%3 == 0}
( n*n for n in range(10) if n%3 == 0)
for n in range(10) if n%3 == 0:
  print n*n

In fact, we often see the list comprehension [ n*n for n in range(10)
if n%3 == 0] explained as being equivalent to
l = []
for n in range(10):
  if n%3 == 0:
    l.append(n)

We could as consistenly explain that the syntax

for n in range(10) if n%3==0:
  body

means

for n in range(10):
  if n%3==0:
    body

This syntax has also the benefit of avoiding an extra level of
indentation (the one for the if) that bears no real meaning on a
structural level.

Maybe a PEP could do the job...

S?bastien


From sdementen at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 13:30:15 2009
From: sdementen at gmail.com (seb)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 10:30:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: conditional for-statement
References:  
	
	
	
Message-ID: <40ae96a4-6f86-4daa-a06b-5556339cb032@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 24, 12:05?am, Mel  wrote:
> seb wrote:
> > On Aug 23, 6:18 pm, John Posner  wrote:
> [ ... ]
> >> How about using a generator expression instead of a list?
>
> >> for i in (x for x in range(10) if x > 5):
> >> print i
>
> >> -John
>
> > Indeed, but we could have the same syntax than for generators but
> > directly in the for statement as in
> > for variable in generator if condition:
> > ? ? body
>
> > Is there a special reason for not doing so ? A rejected PEP ?
>
> Well, the Zen of Python does say
>
> There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it.
>
> Beyond that, I refer you to Gerald M. Weinberg's _The Psychology of Computer
> Programming_, specifically chapters 11 and 12, about Programming Languages,
> and their design.
>
> The proposal creates an case where one particular pair of syntactic
> constructs can be mooshed together. ?OK for them, but everything else
> becomes an exception; what about
>
> while a==c if b != d:
>
> why not
>
> if b != d while a==c:
>

what would be the unambiguous meaning of any of these forms ?
they could be interesting but I do not understand them (yet!).


> or
>
> for a in range(7) if os.name == 'posix':
>
> It winds up burdening the programmers with remembering which constructs are
> and which are not mooshable. ?Weinberg gave an example: FORTRAN had some
> stringent rules for what expressions were and were not allowed as array
> subscripts. ?The result was that many programmers couldn't remember all the
> rules, and often avoided using legal forms, having forgotten they were
> legal.

indeed, the language features should stay as orthogonal as possible
(at least as a general rule)

>
> Maybe the line was already crossed when list comprehensions came into being,
> still, the damage is localized in a particular context: building a list. ?It
> isn't out creating wild options in the program control flow at large.
>

indeed and it proved to be very useful & successful.
one cannot recommend to mix all features together as a general rule
but using common sense and practice, we can have some exceptions that
are definitely worth.

> ? ? ? ? Mel.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -



From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Tue Aug 25 13:53:46 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 19:53:46 +0200
Subject: Web Services examples using "raw" xml?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<4a936e84$0$31337$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
	
Message-ID: <4a94252a$0$31870$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>

John Gordon wrote:
> Any suggestions?

Well, yes, see the link I posted.

http://effbot.org/zone/element-soap.htm

That might actually be the easiest way to get your stuff done, and it
avoids external dependencies (well, except for ElementTree, if you continue
to use Python <= 2.4).

Stefan


From jjposner at optimum.net  Tue Aug 25 14:11:32 2009
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:11:32 -0400
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A942954.7070702@optimum.net>

Diez said:
>
> Classes are not scopes. 
>
> So the above doesn't work because name resolution inside functions/methods
> looks for local variables first, then for the *global* scope. There is no
> class-scope-lookup.

But http://docs.python.org/tutorial/classes.html says, in Section 9.3 "A 
First Look at Classes":

When a class definition is entered, a new namespace is created,
and used as the local scope ? thus, all assignments to local variables
go into this new namespace. In particular, function definitions bind
the name of the new function here.


The following example confirms this:

class Spam(object):
clsvar_1 = 555
clsvar_2 = clsvar_1 + 222

def __init__(self):
print "Spam instance initialized"

sp = Spam()
print sp.clsvar_1, sp.clsvar_2

output:
Spam instance initialized
555 777


Does the OP (kj) have a legitimate gripe, though? I confess that I know 
nothing about Python's implementation -- I'm strictly a user. So it's 
just a suspicion of mine that
something special enables a recursive function definition to refer to 
the function's own name before the definition has been completed. It 
works at the module-namespace (i.e. global) level, and Diez's "toy 
example" shows that it works at function-namespace level:

    class Demo(object):

        def fact(n):
            def inner(n):
                if n < 2:
                    return 1
                else:
                    return n * inner(n - 1)
            return inner(n)

        _classvar = fact(5)


So why can't it work at the class-namespace level, too?

(BTW, Diez, your toy example is another demonstration that there *is* a 
class-scope-lookup: the "def" statement binds the name "fact" in the 
class scope, and the assignment statement looks up the name "fact" in 
that scope.)

-John



From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 14:17:49 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 11:17:49 -0700
Subject: conditional for-statement
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

> We could as consistenly explain that the syntax
>
> for n in range(10) if n%3==0:
>   body
>
> means
>
> for n in range(10):
>   if n%3==0:
>     body
>
> This syntax has also the benefit of avoiding an extra level of
> indentation (the one for the if) that bears no real meaning on a
> structural level.
>

I'm sorry, I don't see what you mean about avoiding the extra level of  
indentation? I can see a very real structural and logical distinction that  
the if-block makes, and IMO it's a good thing that that needs to be set  
apart.

On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 10:25:27 -0700, seb  wrote:

>
> Tx Chris for your reply !
>
> i am still a bit puzzle by the following.
>
> I read in  
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Python_syntax_and_semantics#Generators
>
> """Python 3.0 unifies all collection types by introducing dict and set
> comprehensions, similar to list comprehensions:
>
>>>> [ n*n for n in range(5) ] # regular list comprehension
> [0, 1, 4, 9, 16]
>>>>
>>>> { n*n for n in range(5) } # set comprehension
> {0, 1, 4, 16, 9}
>>>>
>>>> { n: n*n for n in range(5) } # dict comprehension
> {0: 0, 1: 1, 2: 4, 3: 9, 4: 16}
> """
> and we can add to this list the quite similar syntax for generator
> expressions.
>
> On all these loop constructs, one can consistenly add filtering on a
> condition by adding an "if ..." after the "for ... in ..." part (and
> it looks to me difficult to argue, for instance, that we should not
> allow filtering for dict comprehesion because we could get the same
> result by some other construct)
>
> If the "if ..." part after the "for ... in ..." is so much used in all
> these list/dict/set comprehensions and in the generator expressions,
> it makes sense to me to have it also for the "for as a statement"
> syntax :
> [ n*n for n in range(10) if n%3 == 0]
> { n*n for n in range(10) if n%3 == 0}
> { n: n*n for n in range(10) if n%3 == 0}
> ( n*n for n in range(10) if n%3 == 0)
> for n in range(10) if n%3 == 0:
>   print n*n
>
> In fact, we often see the list comprehension [ n*n for n in range(10)
> if n%3 == 0] explained as being equivalent to
> l = []
> for n in range(10):
>   if n%3 == 0:
>     l.append(n)
>
> We could as consistenly explain that the syntax
>
> for n in range(10) if n%3==0:
>   body
>
> means
>
> for n in range(10):
>   if n%3==0:
>     body
>
> This syntax has also the benefit of avoiding an extra level of
> indentation (the one for the if) that bears no real meaning on a
> structural level.
>
> Maybe a PEP could do the job...
>
> S?bastien



-- 
Rami Chowdhury
"Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --  
Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Tue Aug 25 14:25:19 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 11:25:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: basic thread question
References: <20090818201015.GP20434@dragontoe.org>
	 
	<4a922086$0$1619$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>  
	
	 
	<4224e772-5b67-4eea-9bdf-a7d2bf7cc128@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	
	<864e2d5f-0855-4f35-a78c-b09054e75f0d@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On 25 Aug, 13:33, Piet van Oostrum  wrote:

> I have heard about that also, but is there a Python implementation that
> uses this? (Just curious, I am not using Windows.)

On Windows we have three different versions of Python 2.6:

* Python 2.6 for Win32/64 (from python.org) does not have os.fork.

* Python 2.6 for Cygwin has os.fork, but it is non-COW and sluggish.

* Python 2.6 for SUA has a fast os.fork with copy-on-write.

You get Python 2.6.2 for SUA prebuilt by Microsoft from http://www.interopsystems.com.

Using Python 2.6 for SUA is not without surprices: For example, the
process is not executed from the Win32 subsystem, hence the Windows
API is inaccessible. That means we cannot use native Windows GUI.
Instead we must run an X11 server on the Windows subsystem (e.g. X-
Win32), and use the Xlib SUA has installed. You can compare SUA to a
stripped down Linux distro, on which you have to build and install
most of the software you want to use. I do not recommend using Python
for SUA instead of Python for Windows unless you absolutely need a
fast os.fork or have a program that otherwise requires Unix. But for
running Unix apps on Windows, SUA is clearly superior to Cygwin.
Licencing is also better: Programs compiled against Cygwin libraries
are GPL (unless you buy a commercial license). Program compiled
against SUA libraries are not.



Sturla Molden


From nospam at nospam.com  Tue Aug 25 14:30:27 2009
From: nospam at nospam.com (Gilles Ganault)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:30:27 +0200
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
References: 
	<20090825132439.d6cb18ca.feliphil@gmx.net>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:24:39 +0200, Wolfgang Keller 
wrote:
>The area of _desktop_ database application development indeed looks like a vast and very hostile desert in the Python landscape.
>
>The only framework that seems to be worth trying is Dabo. Unfortunately there's little documentation, and that's mostly outdated.
>
>There's also Kiwi, but that's even less well documented.
>
>And GNU Enterprise essentially seems to be dead.

Combined with the comment above about issues with printing, it looks
like Python for GUI apps isn't a very good idea :-/

I'd be interested in checking out commercial applications written in
Python for the Windows OS, if there are any.

Thank you.


From bbxx789_05ss at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 25 14:36:46 2009
From: bbxx789_05ss at yahoo.com (7stud)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 11:36:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References:  
	
Message-ID: <62d4c548-c45f-4345-b9b2-42a7ba7a309a@g1g2000pra.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 25, 12:11?pm, John Posner  wrote:
> Diez said:
>
>
>
> > Classes are not scopes.
>
> > So the above doesn't work because name resolution inside functions/methods
> > looks for local variables first, then for the *global* scope. There is no
> > class-scope-lookup.
>
> Buthttp://docs.python.org/tutorial/classes.htmlsays, in Section 9.3 "A
> First Look at Classes":
>
> When a class definition is entered, a new namespace is created,
> and used as the local scope ? thus, all assignments to local variables
> go into this new namespace. In particular, function definitions bind
> the name of the new function here.
>
> The following example confirms this:
>
> class Spam(object):
> clsvar_1 = 555
> clsvar_2 = clsvar_1 + 222
>
> def __init__(self):
> print "Spam instance initialized"
>
> sp = Spam()
> print sp.clsvar_1, sp.clsvar_2
>
> output:
> Spam instance initialized
> 555 777
>
> Does the OP (kj) have a legitimate gripe, though? I confess that I know


I guess a counter example would be something like this:

y = "hello"

class Demo(object):
    y = "goodbye"

    def __init__(self):
        self.x = 10
        print y

Demo()

--output:--
hello


>
> nothing about Python's implementation -- I'm strictly a user. So it's
> just a suspicion of mine that
> something special enables a recursive function definition to refer to
> the function's own name before the definition has been completed.
>

python ignores the names inside a function when it creates the
function.  This "program" will not produce an error:


def f():
    print x

python parses the file and creates the function object and assigns the
function object to the variable f.  It's not until you execute the
function that python will raise an error.  The same thing happens with
the recursive function.




From david at boddie.org.uk  Tue Aug 25 14:37:35 2009
From: david at boddie.org.uk (David Boddie)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:37:35 +0200
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
References: 
	<20090825132439.d6cb18ca.feliphil@gmx.net>
Message-ID: 

On Tuesday 25 August 2009 13:24, Wolfgang Keller wrote:

> The area of _desktop_ database application development indeed looks like a
> vast and very hostile desert in the Python landscape.
> 
> The only framework that seems to be worth trying is Dabo. Unfortunately
> there's little documentation, and that's mostly outdated.
> 
> There's also Kiwi, but that's even less well documented.
> 
> And GNU Enterprise essentially seems to be dead.

There's also Camelot, if that's the kind of thing you're after:

  http://www.conceptive.be/projects/camelot

David


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Tue Aug 25 14:39:14 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 11:39:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Putting together a larger matrix from smaller matrices
References: <0si695db7bm7rfelo9iud89d8vda32176r@4ax.com>
	<95-dnVK31vsFnQnXnZ2dnUVZ_qmdnZ2d@pdx.net> 
	
Message-ID: <7df5f26b-5f31-4e93-b873-946c99d9a5e4@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On 25 Aug, 17:37, Matjaz Bezovnik  wrote:

> Scott, thank you very much for the snippet.
>
> It is exactly what I looked for; simple to read and obvious as to what
> it does even a month later to a non-pythonist!


Since you were talking about matrices, observe that numpy has a matrix
subclass of ndarray, which e.g. changes the meaning of the * operator
mean indicate matrix multiplication. Thus,

>>> import numpy as np
>>> np.eye(4)
array([[ 1.,  0.,  0.,  0.],
       [ 0.,  1.,  0.,  0.],
       [ 0.,  0.,  1.,  0.],
       [ 0.,  0.,  0.,  1.]])
>>> np.matrix(np.eye(4))
matrix([[ 1.,  0.,  0.,  0.],
        [ 0.,  1.,  0.,  0.],
        [ 0.,  0.,  1.,  0.],
        [ 0.,  0.,  0.,  1.]])

>>> a = np.ones((4,4))
>>> a*a
array([[ 1.,  1.,  1.,  1.],
       [ 1.,  1.,  1.,  1.],
       [ 1.,  1.,  1.,  1.],
       [ 1.,  1.,  1.,  1.]])
>>> b = np.matrix(a)
>>> b*b
matrix([[ 4.,  4.,  4.,  4.],
        [ 4.,  4.,  4.,  4.],
        [ 4.,  4.,  4.,  4.],
        [ 4.,  4.,  4.,  4.]])
>>> b**2
matrix([[ 4.,  4.,  4.,  4.],
        [ 4.,  4.,  4.,  4.],
        [ 4.,  4.,  4.,  4.],
        [ 4.,  4.,  4.,  4.]])
>>> b**4
matrix([[ 64.,  64.,  64.,  64.],
        [ 64.,  64.,  64.,  64.],
        [ 64.,  64.,  64.,  64.],
        [ 64.,  64.,  64.,  64.]])

In Matlab, you use .* vs. * and .^ vs. ^ to obtain the same effect. In
NumPy we use different classes for arrays and matrices.



Sturla Molden





From robert.kern at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 14:42:31 2009
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:42:31 -0500
Subject: Putting together a larger matrix from smaller matrices
In-Reply-To: <0si695db7bm7rfelo9iud89d8vda32176r@4ax.com>
References: <0si695db7bm7rfelo9iud89d8vda32176r@4ax.com>
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-24 21:30 PM, Matjaz Bezovnik wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> I'm but a layman so do not take offence at this maybe over simple
> question.
>
> This is something which is done often in FEM methods, and the alike.
>
> I have matrix A of 3x3 elements, and B, of the same number of
> elements, 3x3.
>
> What would be the most obvious way to assemble a matrix which:
> a11 a12 a13
> a21 a22 a23
> a31 a32 a33+b11 b12 b13
>                        b21 b22 b23
>                        b31 b32 b33
>
> (the missing elements = zero)
>
> (you see the pattern - if there was a third matrix C, it would
> "connect" to b33 on the main diagonal)

You will certainly want to use numpy for this and ask questions on the numpy 
mailing list.

   http://www.scipy.org/Mailing_Lists

I believe that someone recently posted a recipe for constructing such "block 
diagonal" arrays. I think it will be included in a future release of numpy.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From thebiggestbangtheory at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 14:42:31 2009
From: thebiggestbangtheory at gmail.com (nickname)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 11:42:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: os.popen output different from native shell output
References: <8119e546-b54d-4e72-b8b7-d1f3d104670f@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 25, 6:16?am, Nobody  wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 01:36:08 -0700, nickname wrote:
> > ? ? ? ?I am a relative newbie to python, I am using os.popen to run an
> > ls command. The output that I get using the read() function is
> > different in look and feel from when I run the ls command natively
> > from the shell (not via python).
>
> As others have pointed out, the default behaviour of ls is different if
> its output is a terminal.
>
> > Is there an easy way to "mirror" the output. When python displays the
> > output, how can it tell the bash shell that some of the entries are
> > directories and they should appear blue on the bash shell, and that
> > everything should not be appearing on 1 column only.
>
> You can get the terminal-style behaviour even when using a pipe with:
>
> ? ? ? ? ls -x --color
>
> But why are you reading this information into Python then writing it
> back out to the terminal?
>
> If you're planning on processing the output within Python, both the
> multi-column format and the escape sequences used for colour will make
> such processing awkward.
>
> If you want to enumerate the contents of a directory within Python, use
> os.listdir().
>
> If you want to generate coloured output, use the curses module, e.g.:
>
> #!/usr/bin/env python
>
> import sys
> import curses
>
> curses.setupterm()
> setaf = curses.tigetstr('setaf') or ""
> setab = curses.tigetstr('setab') or ""
> origp = curses.tigetstr('op') or ""
>
> def fg(c):
> ? ? sys.stdout.write(curses.tparm(setaf, c))
>
> def bg(c):
> ? ? sys.stdout.write(curses.tparm(setab, c))
>
> def orig():
> ? ? sys.stdout.write(origp)
>
> # example
> bg(curses.COLOR_BLUE)
> fg(curses.COLOR_YELLOW)
> print "hello, world"
> orig()

wow guys! thanks for all the great leads! this is awesome!

The reason why I want to do this is because I am going to do a little
project. I will write a python script called ls which will log the
time and username and then will show the actual ls output. I want this
to be transparent and so want to throw the ls output (via python)
exactly as it will be in native shell execution.

I know there's history files I can look up, but I just am exploring my
own intermediate-logging-layer the functionality for which is executed
right before the actual command is executed.

Thanks,
-A


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Tue Aug 25 14:44:11 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 11:44:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
References: 
	<20090825132439.d6cb18ca.feliphil@gmx.net> 
	
Message-ID: 

On 25 Aug, 20:30, Gilles Ganault  wrote:

> Combined with the comment above about issues with printing, it looks
> like Python for GUI apps isn't a very good idea :-/

With pywin32, printing is the same as for any other Windows app (you
get MFC for Python).



From mensanator at aol.com  Tue Aug 25 14:45:28 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 11:45:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
References:  
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com> 
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
	
	
	<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com> 
	
	
	
	
	<02a31f91$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<44bcb727-0885-4d4f-9c11-ca60a39b0d91@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<02a3e1e2$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 25, 9:14?am, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:01:38 -0700, Mensanator wrote:
> >> If you want your data file to have values entered in hex, or oct, or
> >> even unary (1=one, 11=two, 111=three, 1111=four...) you can.
>
> > Unary? I think you'll find that Standard Positional Number Systems are
> > not defined for radix 1.
>
> Of course not. But unary isn't a positional number system. It's a tally
> system, like my example above shows. Roman numerals are another tally
> system. Like Roman numerals, the disadvantages of unary are that you
> can't represent negative numbers, zero, or fractions, and anything but
> addition and subtraction is difficult. But if you want to use it, perhaps
> out of a sense of sadism towards your users, it's easy:
>
> def int2unary(n):
> ? ? return '1'*n
>
> def unary2int(s):
> ? ? n = 0
> ? ? for c in s:
> ? ? ? ? if c == '1': n+=1
> ? ? ? ? else: raise ValueError('invalid unary string')
> ? ? return n

But without insignificant leading 0's, I fail to see the relevance
of unary to this discussion. And what would you call a tally system
of radix 2? Certainly not binary.

>
> --
> Steven



From robert.kern at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 14:54:10 2009
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:54:10 -0500
Subject: your favorite debugging tool?
In-Reply-To: <87skfgeynf.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: 	<87vdkfiaki.fsf@benfinney.id.au>	
	<87skfgeynf.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-25 09:49 AM, Ben Finney wrote:
> Esmail  writes:
>
>> Hi Ben,
>>
>> Ben Finney wrote:
>>>
>>> Whenever a simple output statement is too cumbersome for debugging, I
>>> take it as a sign that the program is too cumbersome to follow.
>>
>> I'll have to think about this .. though my gut says this is true :-)
>
> Note that it's only a sign, *not* an ironclad guarantee. But it's the
> right way to bet, IME.
>
>> re your other point about the interactive shell, I agree it's useful,
>> but to me still doesn't quite do what a full-fledged debugger can -
>> but perhaps that is a reflection of my skill with the shell at this
>> point.
>
> This, on the other hand, I find even more consistent: if the code can't
> be effectively inspected from the interactive interpreter, that's a sure
> sign that its external interfaces are poor or its internal dependencies
> too tightly coupled; or more likely both.

And a debugger is a great tool to help you figure out exactly why your code 
doesn't actually have the wonderful decoupling that you thought you designed 
into it so you can fix it. :-)

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Tue Aug 25 14:54:21 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 11:54:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
References: 
	<20090825132439.d6cb18ca.feliphil@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <7d48a1c7-b406-499e-a0e1-3c7d3b91d8a0@k30g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>

On 25 Aug, 13:24, Wolfgang Keller  wrote:

> The area of _desktop_ database application development indeed looks like a vast and very hostile desert in the Python landscape.

Yes, you don't have drag-and-drop database tools like MS Access or
FoxPro. You actually have to use a database API (such as pyodbc or
pymssql) with GUI (tkinter, wxPython, PyGTK, PyQt, MFC) manually. If
you need a framework for this, you should not be developing software
anyway.



From robert.kern at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 14:55:28 2009
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:55:28 -0500
Subject: your favorite debugging tool?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<57d65219-8134-4c2e-9739-825a5ef450d0@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-25 06:57 AM, Esmail wrote:
> Michele Simionato wrote:
>> On Aug 22, 4:25 pm, Esmail  wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> What is your favorite tool to help you debug your
>>> code?
>>
>> The times when I would just use 'print' are long past. Nowadays I
>> spend lots of my time
>> with code written by others than myself. I use pdb all the time, and
>> now also ipdb
>> (ipdb is very cool if you are used to ipython).
>
> Never heard of ipdb, I'll have to check it out.

It's not really a separate thing, just the pdb integration into the IPython 
interactive shell (which I highly recommend that you check out).

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Tue Aug 25 14:57:59 2009
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:57:59 +0200
Subject: os.popen output different from native shell output
In-Reply-To: 
References: <8119e546-b54d-4e72-b8b7-d1f3d104670f@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <7fiqhnF2l2bs6U1@mid.individual.net>

In one of the first chapters of "Advanced programming in the unix
environment (second edition)" there is explained how a unix shell works.

You could write you own shell using python. This way the python
interpreter gets stared only once, and not for every call to "ls".



Have fun,
  Thomas

nickname schrieb:
> wow guys! thanks for all the great leads! this is awesome!
> 
> The reason why I want to do this is because I am going to do a little
> project. I will write a python script called ls which will log the
> time and username and then will show the actual ls output. I want this
> to be transparent and so want to throw the ls output (via python)
> exactly as it will be in native shell execution.


From travis at subspacefield.org  Tue Aug 25 15:16:59 2009
From: travis at subspacefield.org (travis at subspacefield.org)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:16:59 -0500
Subject: proposal: add setresuid() system call to python
In-Reply-To: <87d46kdp0v.fsf@busola.homelinux.net>
References: <20090717200141.GI6065@subspacefield.org>
	<148918f0907171315i4ed5b274v77581a43c4464f8f@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<7cj89qF27mfrjU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<877hy38mxw.fsf@busola.homelinux.net>
	<20090821205040.GK1215@subspacefield.org>
	<87d46kdp0v.fsf@busola.homelinux.net>
Message-ID: <20090825191659.GL1215@subspacefield.org>

On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 03:03:12PM +0200, Hrvoje Niksic wrote:
> You should use ctypes.get_errno() instead of os.errno; sorry about that.
> 
> Also, when raising OSError, you should set the 'errno' attribute to the
> appropriate code.

How does that compare to:

raise pythonapi.PyErr_SetFromErrno(py_object(OSError))

?
-- 
Obama Nation | My emails do not have attachments; it's a digital signature
that your mail program doesn't understand. | http://www.subspacefield.org/~travis/ 
If you are a spammer, please email john at subspacefield.org to get blacklisted.
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From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Aug 25 15:19:33 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 25 Aug 2009 12:19:33 -0700
Subject: Waiting for a subprocess to exit
References: <873a7l21gr.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
Miles Kaufmann   wrote:
>
>debacle[1]).  Leaving shell=3DFalse makes scripts more secure and =20
>robust; besides, when I'm putting together a command and its =20
>arguments, it's as convenient to build a list (['mycmd', 'myarg']) as =20=
>
>it is a string (if not more so).

....unless you want to use "~" on Mac or Unix.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I support family values -- Addams family values" --www.nancybuttons.com


From jason at nospam.org  Tue Aug 25 15:21:25 2009
From: jason at nospam.org (jason)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:21:25 -0600
Subject: Simple IRC library
References: <752884c5-c6fb-4974-a21a-bf3017fa4145@y4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2009082513212516807-jason@nospamorg>

On 2009-08-24 01:39:21 -0600, devaru  said:

> Hi all,
> I am new to Python language. I want to capture(either in database or a
> file) the conversation in IRC.

Fed.

> Please suggest me some simple IRC library or code snippet for this.

I have used the oyoyo library with success. It's pretty nice and has a 
framework for bots which you might be interested in looking at.

http://code.google.com/p/oyoyo/



From jjposner at optimum.net  Tue Aug 25 15:31:48 2009
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:31:48 -0400
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A943C24.6090209@optimum.net>

7stud said:
> python ignores the names inside a function when it creates the
> function.  This "program" will not produce an error:
>
>
> def f():
>     print x
>
> python parses the file and creates the function object and assigns the
> function object to the variable f.  It's not until you execute the
> function that python will raise an error.  The same thing happens with
> the recursive function.
>   


Thanks for that explanation. So in the OP's example:

Class Demo(object):
    def fact(n):
        if n < 2:
            return 1
        else:
            return n * fact(n - 1)

    _classvar = fact(5)


... no failure occurs when "fact(5)" is invoked, because the lookup of 
"fact" in the local scope is a class-scope-lookup, which succeeds. The 
failure occurs on the first recursive invocation of fact() in the 
statement "return n * fact(n - 1)": the function-scope-lookup of "fact" 
fails, and then the interpreter falls back to a global-scope-lookup of 
"fact", which also fails.



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Aug 25 15:32:09 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 25 Aug 2009 12:32:09 -0700
Subject: Object Reference question
References: <2dcf41c3-6623-48d9-bb74-97f753088479@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
Hendrik van Rooyen   wrote:
>On Friday 21 August 2009 08:07:18 josef wrote:
>>
>> My main focus of this post is: "How do I find and use object reference
>> memory locations?"
>
>>>> a = [1,2,3,4]
>>>> id(a)
>8347088
>>>>  

Of course, that doesn't actually allow you to do anything...
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I support family values -- Addams family values" --www.nancybuttons.com


From evaned at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 15:33:51 2009
From: evaned at gmail.com (Evan Driscoll)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 12:33:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Context manager to temporarily change the variable of a register [aka
	write swap(a,b)]
Message-ID: <7c171ce3-56a7-482f-addd-c6c86441cba7@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>

(If you don't want to read the following, note that you can answer my
question by writing a swap function.)

I want to make a context manager that will temporarily change the
value of a variable within the scope of a 'with' that uses it. This is
inspired by a C++ RAII object I've used in a few projects. Ideally,
what I want is something like the following:

    x = 5
    print x   # prints 5
    with changed_value(x, 10):
        print x  # prints 10
    print x  # prints 5

This is similar to PEP 343's example 5 ("Redirect stdout temporarily";
see http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0343/), except that the
variable that I want to temporarily change isn't hard-coded in the
stdout_redirected function.

What I want to write is something like this:
    @contextmanager
    def changed_value(variable, temp_value):
        old_value = variable
        variable = temp_value
        try:
            yield None
        finally:
            variable = old_value
with maybe a check in 'finally' to make sure that the value hasn't
changed during the execution of the 'with'.

Of course this doesn't work since it only changes the binding of
'variable', not whatever was passed in, and I kind of doubt I can
stick a "&" and "*" in a couple places to make it do what I want. :-)

So my question is: is what I want possible to do in Python? How?

I think it might be possible to rig something up by passing in the
variable that i want to change as a *string* and looking up that
string in a dictionary somewhere, but I think what I need is the locals
() dictionary of the calling function, and I'm not sure how to get
that.

Thanks,
Evan Driscoll


From garrickp at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 15:42:34 2009
From: garrickp at gmail.com (Falcolas)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 12:42:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: conditional for-statement
References:  
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 25, 11:25?am, seb  wrote:
> We could as consistenly explain that the syntax
>
> for n in range(10) if n%3==0:
> ? body
>
> means
>
> for n in range(10):
> ? if n%3==0:
> ? ? body
>
> This syntax has also the benefit of avoiding an extra level of
> indentation (the one for the if) that bears no real meaning on a
> structural level.
>
> Maybe a PEP could do the job...
>
> S?bastien

So, what part of the statement does the "if" statement belong to;
particularly a concern considering this is valid python:

for x in y if y else z:
    body

You can always do the following at the cost of 6 symbols, and the gain
of clarity:

for n in (x for x in y if y%3==0):
    body

~G


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Aug 25 15:45:09 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:45:09 -0400
Subject: Python, qt, and lgpl
Message-ID: 

"
New LGPL Python bindings for Qt slither into the light

A new set of LGPL-licensed Python bindings for Qt has been announced. 
The project, which is backed by Nokia, will make it easier for 
commercial software developers to adopt Python and Qt for rapid 
application development."

http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/08/openbossa-announces-new-lgpl-python-bindings-for-qt.ars

Will be good news if realized.



From rurpy at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 25 15:45:49 2009
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 12:45:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: break unichr instead of fix ord?
Message-ID: <2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

In Python 2.5 on Windows I could do [*1]:

  # Create a unicode character outside of the BMP.
  >>> a = u'\U00010040'

  # On Windows it is represented as a surogate pair.
  >>> len(a)
  2
  >>> a[0],a[1]
  (u'\ud800', u'\udc40')

  # Create the same character with the unichr() function.
  >>> a = unichr (65600)
  >>> a[0],a[1]
  (u'\ud800', u'\udc40')

  # Although the unichr() function works fine, its
  # inverse, ord(), doesn't.
  >>> ord (a)
  TypeError: ord() expected a character, but string of length 2 found

On Python 2.6, unichr() was "fixed" (using the word
loosely) so that it too now fails with characters outside
the BMP.

  >>> a = unichr (65600)
  ValueError: unichr() arg not in range(0x10000) (narrow Python build)

Why was this done rather than changing ord() to accept a
surrogate pair?

Does not this effectively make unichr() and ord() useless
on Windows for all but a subset of unicode characters?


From emile at fenx.com  Tue Aug 25 15:48:41 2009
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 12:48:41 -0700
Subject: Context manager to temporarily change the variable of a register
	[aka   write swap(a,b)]
In-Reply-To: <7c171ce3-56a7-482f-addd-c6c86441cba7@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
References: <7c171ce3-56a7-482f-addd-c6c86441cba7@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On 8/25/2009 12:33 PM Evan Driscoll said...


> So my question is: is what I want possible to do in Python? 

Probably not with immutables (as in your example) -- maybe otherwise.

Emile



From sdementen at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 15:58:38 2009
From: sdementen at gmail.com (seb)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 12:58:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: conditional for-statement
References:  
	
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: <14afbe5a-62e7-4944-ab9d-42b86530ac41@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 25, 9:42?pm, Falcolas  wrote:
> On Aug 25, 11:25?am, seb  wrote:
>
>
>
> > We could as consistenly explain that the syntax
>
> > for n in range(10) if n%3==0:
> > ? body
>
> > means
>
> > for n in range(10):
> > ? if n%3==0:
> > ? ? body
>
> > This syntax has also the benefit of avoiding an extra level of
> > indentation (the one for the if) that bears no real meaning on a
> > structural level.
>
> > Maybe a PEP could do the job...
>
> > S?bastien

>
> So, what part of the statement does the "if" statement belong to;
> particularly a concern considering this is valid python:
>
> for x in y if y else z:
> ? ? body
>
can this be done in list/set/dict comprehensions/generator
expressions ?

> You can always do the following at the cost of 6 symbols, and the gain
> of clarity:
>
> for n in (x for x in y if y%3==0):
> ? ? body

it is in fact precisely to avoid this sort of line:
  for n in (x for x in y if x%3==0):
and have instead the (more readable IMO) line
  for n in y if n%3==0:
with:
 - 1 "for ... in ..." instead of 2 (where one is the repetition of the
other)
 - no parentheses
 - no extra technical variable with local binding to the expression
generator ('x')
it looks more pythonic to me but it is a personal taste.

>
> ~G



From evaned at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 16:07:13 2009
From: evaned at gmail.com (Evan Driscoll)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:07:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Context manager to temporarily change the variable of a register 
	[aka write swap(a,b)]
References: <7c171ce3-56a7-482f-addd-c6c86441cba7@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7c2c560f-d54c-492c-a847-e8ab079faea0@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 25, 2:33?pm, Evan Driscoll  wrote:
> I want to make a context manager that will temporarily change the
> value of a variable within the scope of a 'with' that uses it. This is
> inspired by a C++ RAII object I've used in a few projects. Ideally,
> what I want is something like the following:

Okay, so I think I actually got this with some consultation with a
friend. Critiques?

    from contextlib import contextmanager
    import inspect

    def get_parents_var(offset, var):
        f = inspect.stack()[offset][0]
        if var in f.f_locals:
                return f.f_locals[var]
        else:
                return f.f_globals[var]

    def set_parents_var(offset, var, val):
        f = inspect.stack()[offset][0]
        if var in f.f_locals:
            f.f_locals[var] = val
        elif var in f_globals:
            f.f_globals[var] = val
        else:
            assert False


    @contextmanager
    def changed_value_tb(var_name, temp_value):
        # 1 is here, 2 will be the implicit next() function, 3 is the
real caller
        offset = 3
        old_value = get_parents_var(offset, var_name)
        set_parents_var(offset, var_name, temp_value)
        try:
            yield None
        finally:
            set_parents_var(offset, var_name, old_value)


    x = 5
    print x   # prints 5
    with changed_value_tb("x", 10):
        print x  # prints 10
    print x  # prints 5


From deets at nospam.web.de  Tue Aug 25 16:10:00 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 22:10:00 +0200
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <7fiuooF2l2oogU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

John Posner schrieb:
> Diez said:
>>
>> Classes are not scopes.
>> So the above doesn't work because name resolution inside 
>> functions/methods
>> looks for local variables first, then for the *global* scope. There is no
>> class-scope-lookup.
> 
> But http://docs.python.org/tutorial/classes.html says, in Section 9.3 "A 
> First Look at Classes":
> 
> When a class definition is entered, a new namespace is created,
> and used as the local scope ? thus, all assignments to local variables
> go into this new namespace. In particular, function definitions bind
> the name of the new function here.
> 
> 
> The following example confirms this:
> 
> class Spam(object):
> clsvar_1 = 555
> clsvar_2 = clsvar_1 + 222
> 
> def __init__(self):
> print "Spam instance initialized"
> 
> sp = Spam()
> print sp.clsvar_1, sp.clsvar_2
> 
> output:
> Spam instance initialized
> 555 777
> 
> 
> Does the OP (kj) have a legitimate gripe, though? I confess that I know 
> nothing about Python's implementation -- I'm strictly a user. So it's 
> just a suspicion of mine that
> something special enables a recursive function definition to refer to 
> the function's own name before the definition has been completed. It 
> works at the module-namespace (i.e. global) level, and Diez's "toy 
> example" shows that it works at function-namespace level:
> 
>    class Demo(object):
> 
>        def fact(n):
>            def inner(n):
>                if n < 2:
>                    return 1
>                else:
>                    return n * inner(n - 1)
>            return inner(n)
> 
>        _classvar = fact(5)
> 
> 
> So why can't it work at the class-namespace level, too?

See my other post on what name lookup with class-scope *inside* 
functions would mean.

Diez


From deets at nospam.web.de  Tue Aug 25 16:14:48 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 22:14:48 +0200
Subject: Context manager to temporarily change the variable of a register
	[aka    write swap(a,b)]
In-Reply-To: <7c171ce3-56a7-482f-addd-c6c86441cba7@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
References: <7c171ce3-56a7-482f-addd-c6c86441cba7@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7fiv1oF2l2ejnU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Evan Driscoll schrieb:
> (If you don't want to read the following, note that you can answer my
> question by writing a swap function.)
> 
> I want to make a context manager that will temporarily change the
> value of a variable within the scope of a 'with' that uses it. This is
> inspired by a C++ RAII object I've used in a few projects. Ideally,
> what I want is something like the following:
> 
>     x = 5
>     print x   # prints 5
>     with changed_value(x, 10):
>         print x  # prints 10
>     print x  # prints 5
> 
> This is similar to PEP 343's example 5 ("Redirect stdout temporarily";
> see http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0343/), except that the
> variable that I want to temporarily change isn't hard-coded in the
> stdout_redirected function.
> 
> What I want to write is something like this:
>     @contextmanager
>     def changed_value(variable, temp_value):
>         old_value = variable
>         variable = temp_value
>         try:
>             yield None
>         finally:
>             variable = old_value
> with maybe a check in 'finally' to make sure that the value hasn't
> changed during the execution of the 'with'.
> 
> Of course this doesn't work since it only changes the binding of
> 'variable', not whatever was passed in, and I kind of doubt I can
> stick a "&" and "*" in a couple places to make it do what I want. :-)
> 
> So my question is: is what I want possible to do in Python? How?

No. And unfortunately, the with-statement (as the for-statement and 
others) leaks it's name, so you can't even use it like this:


with changed_value(variable, temp_value) as new_name:
    ...

The new_name will be defined afterwards.

Diez


From travis+ml-python at subspacefield.org  Tue Aug 25 16:15:35 2009
From: travis+ml-python at subspacefield.org (travis+ml-python at subspacefield.org)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:15:35 -0500
Subject: proposal: add setresuid() system call to python
In-Reply-To: <20090821201312.GJ1215@subspacefield.org>
References: <20090717200141.GI6065@subspacefield.org>
	<20090717205953.2543.1223422516.divmod.quotient.3129@henry.divmod.com>
	<20090821201312.GJ1215@subspacefield.org>
Message-ID: <20090825201535.GM1215@subspacefield.org>

On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 03:13:12PM -0500, travis at subspacefield.org wrote:
> Since the authors of the paper (Wagner et. al.) are proposing a new
> set of APIs to make all of this clearer, I'm thinking that I will
> create a module specifically for dropping permissions.

I've created the module here:

http://www.subspacefield.org/~travis/python/privilege/

I could sure use any comments people had on my python style.

PyPi link:
http://pypi.python.org/pypi/privilege/1.0
-- 
Obama Nation | My emails do not have attachments; it's a digital signature
that your mail program doesn't understand. | http://www.subspacefield.org/~travis/ 
If you are a spammer, please email john at subspacefield.org to get blacklisted.
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From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 16:16:24 2009
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:16:24 -0700
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: <4A942954.7070702@optimum.net>
References:  
	<4A942954.7070702@optimum.net>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c20908251316k2ebc304fk1422c96ddb4158c4@mail.gmail.com>

>
>
> But http://docs.python.org/tutorial/classes.html says, in Section 9.3 "A
> First Look at Classes":
>
> When a class definition is entered, a new namespace is created,
> and used as the local scope ? thus, all assignments to local variables
> go into this new namespace. In particular, function definitions bind
> the name of the new function here.
>
> [snip]

>
> (BTW, Diez, your toy example is another demonstration that there *is* a
> class-scope-lookup: the "def" statement binds the name "fact" in the class
> scope, and the assignment statement looks up the name "fact" in that scope.)
>

This sounds like a fundamental confusion -- a namespace is not equivalent to
a scope, really, I think.

The def statement creates a function object, and assigns it to the given
name, in its /local scope/ which is the class's namespace -- but that is not
a new scope. Its just, during class creation, the local scope.

When you enter a class definition, a new namespace is created, and that is
used as the local scope during the class's definition. Under "class Foo",
the local scope is this class's namespace-- and the global scope is the
module's namespace. Any lookup operation checks first in the local scope,
then in the global scope...

When the "def fact(...)" is executed (note that class bodies are executed on
load, function bodies aren't), a new namespace is created as well-- the
function's namespace-- and its used as the local scope. During execution of
the code, it looks up in the local scope first-- and then it looks up in the
global scope if it doesn't find anything. There /is/ no
class-lookup-scope... but there IS a class namespace.

There's just those two scopes: but the namespace bound to those scopes
changes as you enter different parts of the code.

For a long time that's all there was, just the local and global scope: to
access any other namespace required you to explicitly address it. The class
namespace remains accessible only via explicit addressing, but PEP 227 in
Python 2.1/2.2 introduced static nested scopes. But that applies only to
enclosing functions: embedding one function into another.

You can only call recursive functions if the function is able to refer to
itself according to the same lookup rules: is the function's name in the
local scope? No it's not... is it in the global scope? No? Then it can't
call itself recursively... well, unless its a method, and it addresses
itself specifically-- with "self.".

The OP's probably is that during the execution of the class body, the class
doesn't exist... so the 'def fact' -can't- use Classname.fact to address
itself explicitly, and within fact the locals don't contain a reference to
the function itself, and its globals don't either. You just can't do that.
The right way, IMHO, is to move 'fact' up and out of the class into a _fact
global variable. Alternatively, you can use a metaclass.

--S
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From evaned at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 16:24:08 2009
From: evaned at gmail.com (Evan Driscoll)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:24:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Context manager to temporarily change the variable of a register 
	[aka write swap(a,b)]
References: <7c171ce3-56a7-482f-addd-c6c86441cba7@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<7c2c560f-d54c-492c-a847-e8ab079faea0@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 25, 3:07?pm, Evan Driscoll  wrote:
> Okay, so I think I actually got this with some consultation with a
> friend. Critiques?

This is wrong; it's not quite working right. It does with the example
I posted, but not in a more thorough test.

I'm still ignoring the "you can't do this" answers for a little while
more and continuing to try to hack on it. :-)

Evan


From deets at nospam.web.de  Tue Aug 25 16:25:31 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 22:25:31 +0200
Subject: Context manager to temporarily change the variable of a register
	[aka write swap(a,b)]
In-Reply-To: <7c2c560f-d54c-492c-a847-e8ab079faea0@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <7c171ce3-56a7-482f-addd-c6c86441cba7@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<7c2c560f-d54c-492c-a847-e8ab079faea0@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7fivlrF2lsrsuU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Evan Driscoll schrieb:
> On Aug 25, 2:33 pm, Evan Driscoll  wrote:
>> I want to make a context manager that will temporarily change the
>> value of a variable within the scope of a 'with' that uses it. This is
>> inspired by a C++ RAII object I've used in a few projects. Ideally,
>> what I want is something like the following:
> 
> Okay, so I think I actually got this with some consultation with a
> friend. Critiques?

Modifying locals isn't really allowed - it might stop working with 
certain implementations of python.

And to be honest - I don't really see a use-case for your whole 
approache. Why don't you want to introduce a new name?


Diez


From thebiggestbangtheory at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 16:32:57 2009
From: thebiggestbangtheory at gmail.com (nickname)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:32:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: os.popen output different from native shell output
References: <8119e546-b54d-4e72-b8b7-d1f3d104670f@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<7fiqhnF2l2bs6U1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 25, 11:57?am, Thomas Guettler 
wrote:
> In one of the first chapters of "Advanced programming in the unix
> environment (second edition)" there is explained how a unix shell works.
>
> You could write you own shell using python. This way the python
> interpreter gets stared only once, and not for every call to "ls".
>
> Have fun,
> ? Thomas
>
> nickname schrieb:
>
> > wow guys! thanks for all the great leads! this is awesome!
>
> > The reason why I want to do this is because I am going to do a little
> > project. I will write a python script called ls which will log the
> > time and username and then will show the actual ls output. I want this
> > to be transparent and so want to throw the ls output (via python)
> > exactly as it will be in native shell execution.
>
>

very good point, I will look it up :-)


From ebonak at hotmail.com  Tue Aug 25 16:33:53 2009
From: ebonak at hotmail.com (Esmail)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:33:53 -0400
Subject: your favorite debugging tool?
In-Reply-To: <87skfgeynf.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: 	<87vdkfiaki.fsf@benfinney.id.au>	
	<87skfgeynf.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: 

Ben Finney wrote:
> Esmail  writes:
> 
>> Hi Ben,
>>
>> Ben Finney wrote:
>>> Whenever a simple output statement is too cumbersome for debugging, I
>>> take it as a sign that the program is too cumbersome to follow.
>> I'll have to think about this .. though my gut says this is true :-)
> 
> Note that it's only a sign, *not* an ironclad guarantee. But it's the
> right way to bet, IME.

:-) .. I took it as a rule of thumb too .. I didn't meant to imply
anything more serious. These design guidelines help though.

Thanks,
Esmail




From garrickp at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 16:46:19 2009
From: garrickp at gmail.com (Falcolas)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:46:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: conditional for-statement
References:  
	
	
	
	
	 
	<14afbe5a-62e7-4944-ab9d-42b86530ac41@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4720bbf4-1be7-4f02-9869-df8e0cd9e221@y10g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 25, 1:58?pm, seb  wrote:
> On Aug 25, 9:42?pm, Falcolas  wrote:
> > On Aug 25, 11:25?am, seb  wrote:
> > So, what part of the statement does the "if" statement belong to;
> > particularly a concern considering this is valid python:
>
> > for x in y if y else z:
> > ? ? body
>
> can this be done in list/set/dict comprehensions/generator
> expressions ?

It's a statement, so anywhere you use a statement (such as in
generators and list comprehensions), it can exist. for ... in ... only
requires that the statement return an iterable, it doesn't matter what
statement you use to get there.

For example, the following is perfectly valid (if nonsensical - I
don't use ternary operators very often in my programming, so I don't
have many good examples of their use)

list = [x if x else y for x, y in iterable]

> it is in fact precisely to avoid this sort of line:
> ? for n in (x for x in y if x%3==0):
> and have instead the (more readable IMO) line
> ? for n in y if n%3==0:
> with:
> ?- 1 "for ... in ..." instead of 2 (where one is the repetition of the
> other)
> ?- no parentheses
> ?- no extra technical variable with local binding to the expression
> generator ('x')
> it looks more pythonic to me but it is a personal taste.
>

It doesn't feel clear to me, which is why I would have to disagree.
IIRC, these very filters are the main reason that list comprehensions,
and later one-line generators and dictionary comprehensions were
originally created: so you can filter the stream before acting on it.
One statement performs one action - very precise and understandable.

It's just my two cents, but I would not agree that adding a filter
keyword to for loops is required. Not when we have the filter
function, various types of comprehensions, and if statements which all
provide that very functionality.

~G


From evaned at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 16:47:17 2009
From: evaned at gmail.com (Evan Driscoll)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:47:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Context manager to temporarily change the variable of a register 
	[aka write swap(a,b)]
References: <7c171ce3-56a7-482f-addd-c6c86441cba7@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<7c2c560f-d54c-492c-a847-e8ab079faea0@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> 
	<7fivlrF2lsrsuU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 25, 3:25?pm, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
> Modifying locals isn't really allowed - it might stop working with
> certain implementations of python.
>
> And to be honest - I don't really see a use-case for your whole
> approache. Why don't you want to introduce a new name?

Wow, this actually was very helpful, because it forced me to clarify
what I'm doing to myself, and I *am* making it rather too complicated.

The reason that I can't introduce a new name is that I want to call
another function that refers to the old name. (Specifically, I'm using
this in a testing framework, and I want to mock out some things like
file I/O so want to replace 'open' and others temporarily. I don't
really want to make said function take an extra parameter which is
"the open function to use" or something like that.)

But then I don't need to modify locals. In fact, the references that I
want to affect are used in a function that isn't even on the stack
when the "with" statement is entered!

So I only need to modify a global, which is much easier than what I
was mucking about with.

So here is my simplified version that only works for globals:
    from contextlib import contextmanager

    @contextmanager
    def changed_value(var_name, temp_value):
        old_value = globals()[var_name]
        globals()[var_name] = temp_value
        try:
            yield None
        finally:
            globals()[var_name] = old_value


    x = 5
    print "5:", x
    with changed_value("x", 10):
        print "10:", x
    print "5:", x

    y = 7

    def test():
        print "5:", x
        with changed_value("x", 20):
            print "20:", x
            print "7:", y
        print "5:", x

    test()

    print "5:", x

How does that look?

And thanks for making me think about what I'm doing. :-)

Evan


From gbelov at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 16:51:14 2009
From: gbelov at gmail.com (Gleb Belov)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:51:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is it a bug?
Message-ID: <87b7ce88-1f2f-43ff-8096-6a95a89b6e27@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

Hey everyone! I'm quite new to Python and equally new to newsgroups in
general, so apologies if this makes no sense.

Basically, I was just exploring Python "arrays" on my own, since I
come from C++. What I did was:
>>> words = ["Hi!", "What's up?", "Bye!"]
>>> print words
['Hi!', "What's up?", 'Bye!']

I have two questions:
1) Is it possible and if so, how do I access each individual element?
Are there any indexes and what is the syntax?
2) I just noticed that the first and the last words in the output are
enclosed in single quotes, and the middle one is enclosed in double
quotes. Is it a bug? If not, why does the output work that way?

Alright, thanks in advance for any replies and I hope I'll manage to
actually find this topic...


From somebody at somewhere.com  Tue Aug 25 16:59:00 2009
From: somebody at somewhere.com (Stephen Fairchild)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 21:59:00 +0100
Subject: Is it a bug?
References: <87b7ce88-1f2f-43ff-8096-6a95a89b6e27@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Gleb Belov wrote:

> Hey everyone! I'm quite new to Python and equally new to newsgroups in
> general, so apologies if this makes no sense.
> 
> Basically, I was just exploring Python "arrays" on my own, since I
> come from C++. What I did was:
>>>> words = ["Hi!", "What's up?", "Bye!"]
>>>> print words
> ['Hi!', "What's up?", 'Bye!']
> 
> I have two questions:
> 1) Is it possible and if so, how do I access each individual element?
> Are there any indexes and what is the syntax?

For the first element:
>>> words[0]

> 2) I just noticed that the first and the last words in the output are
> enclosed in single quotes, and the middle one is enclosed in double
> quotes. Is it a bug? If not, why does the output work that way?

The output is valid python code. To represent with single quotes for the
second item, there would have to be a \ escape character for the
apostrophe.
-- 
Stephen Fairchild


From gbelov at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 17:12:47 2009
From: gbelov at gmail.com (Gleb Belov)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:12:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is it a bug?
References: <87b7ce88-1f2f-43ff-8096-6a95a89b6e27@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 26, 12:59?am, Stephen Fairchild  wrote:
> Gleb Belov wrote:
> > Hey everyone! I'm quite new to Python and equally new to newsgroups in
> > general, so apologies if this makes no sense.
>
> > Basically, I was just exploring Python "arrays" on my own, since I
> > come from C++. What I did was:
> >>>> words = ["Hi!", "What's up?", "Bye!"]
> >>>> print words
> > ['Hi!', "What's up?", 'Bye!']
>
> > I have two questions:
> > 1) Is it possible and if so, how do I access each individual element?
> > Are there any indexes and what is the syntax?
>
> For the first element:
>
> >>> words[0]
> > 2) I just noticed that the first and the last words in the output are
> > enclosed in single quotes, and the middle one is enclosed in double
> > quotes. Is it a bug? If not, why does the output work that way?
>
> The output is valid python code. To represent with single quotes for the
> second item, there would have to be a \ escape character for the
> apostrophe.
> --
> Stephen Fairchild

Oh, thank you! That makes sense! Should have thought of the escape
character issue...


From sdementen at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 17:19:31 2009
From: sdementen at gmail.com (seb)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:19:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: conditional for-statement
References:  
	
	
	
	
	 
	<14afbe5a-62e7-4944-ab9d-42b86530ac41@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> 
	<4720bbf4-1be7-4f02-9869-df8e0cd9e221@y10g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 25, 10:46?pm, Falcolas  wrote:
> On Aug 25, 1:58?pm, seb  wrote:
>
> > On Aug 25, 9:42?pm, Falcolas  wrote:
> > > On Aug 25, 11:25?am, seb  wrote:
> > > So, what part of the statement does the "if" statement belong to;
> > > particularly a concern considering this is valid python:
>
> > > for x in y if y else z:
> > > ? ? body
>
> > can this be done in list/set/dict comprehensions/generator
> > expressions ?
>
> It's a statement, so anywhere you use a statement (such as in
> generators and list comprehensions), it can exist. for ... in ... only
> requires that the statement return an iterable, it doesn't matter what
> statement you use to get there.
>

I never thought about this case...
Testing that in python 3.0, i see that

>>> [x for x in range(5) if False else range(10)]
SyntaxError: invalid syntax (, line 1)
>>> [x for x in (range(5) if False else range(10))]
[0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9]

hence, to avoid the ambiguity you mentionned (that already exists with
list comprehensions), one can use the parenthesis. This minor
incompatibility is referenced in http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0308/

> It doesn't feel clear to me, which is why I would have to disagree.
> IIRC, these very filters are the main reason that list comprehensions,
> and later one-line generators and dictionary comprehensions were
> originally created: so you can filter the stream before acting on it.
> One statement performs one action - very precise and understandable.

in my mind, I am thinking as you are but with 'loop' instead of
'stream'
"""so you can filter the 'loop' before acting on it. One statement
performs one action - very precise and understandable."""
and it doesn't look that dissimilar to your own reasoning.

>
> It's just my two cents, but I would not agree that adding a filter
> keyword to for loops is required. Not when we have the filter
> function, various types of comprehensions, and if statements which all
> provide that very functionality.
>
before having list comprehensions, we could also have said that
"""  I would not agree that adding a 'list comprehension' feature is
required. Not when we have the filter
     function, and the 'for+if' statements which all provide that very
functionality."""

How can unifying the "for ... in ..." statement with the "for ...
in ... if ..." syntax be detrimental ? It would be an inconsistence
less to remember, wouldn't it ?

cheers,

sebastien


From ryniek90 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 17:22:13 2009
From: ryniek90 at gmail.com (Ryniek90)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 23:22:13 +0200
Subject: TypeError: _getfullpathname() argument 1 must be (buffer overflow),
	not str in windows xp, while making tarfile
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A945605.1050105@gmail.com>

>
> Ryniek90 wrote:
>> Referring to my earlier posts:
>> http://groups.google.pl/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/4e34f995800f5352?hl=pl 
>>
>>
>> and
>>
>> http://groups.google.pl/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/abf5573b8fceb37e?hl=pl# 
>>
>>
>> I've dealt with those errors. but now have another.
>> When my backup scripts starts to backup chosen file, python gave me 
>> Traceback:
>>
>> "
>> C:\Users\Ryniek's WinSe7en\Documents\My 
>> Dropbox\Aplikacje\Moje_aplikacje\Pythonowe_aplikacje\Skrypty>python ba
>> ckuper.py -f F:\APLIKACJE\nowegg.exe F:\ MyGGBackup
>> Checking permissions for reading and writing...
>> Have permissions on [F:\APLIKACJE\nowegg.exe] for reading.
>> Have permissions on [F:\] for writing.
>> Preparing for backup [nowegg.exe]...
>> Starting backup...
>> Now adding [nowegg.exe]...
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>  File "backuper.py", line 197, in 
>>    main_meth()
>>  File "backuper.py", line 189, in main_meth
>>    paq.backup_file(pars.options.filename[0], 
>> pars.options.filename[1], pars.options.filename[2])
>>  File "backuper.py", line 127, in backup_file
>>    backup_obj.add(read_bin_obj)
>>  File "E:\WinSe7en Apps\APLIKACJE\ActiveState Python 
>> 2.6\lib\tarfile.py", line 1948, in add
>>    if self.name is not None and os.path.abspath(name) == self.name:
>>  File "E:\WinSe7en Apps\APLIKACJE\ActiveState Python 
>> 2.6\lib\ntpath.py", line 458, in abspath
>>    path = _getfullpathname(path)
>> TypeError: _getfullpathname() argument 1 must be (buffer overflow), 
>> not str
>> "
>>
>> I've searched over google, but found only that is bug in Python ( 
>> http://bugs.python.org/issue4071  - in that issue bug is inside 
>> Python 2.5.2 - i've got ActiveState Active Python with core Python 
>> 2.6.2), and another  info:   *http://tinyurl.com/lvyn7o  and 
>> **http://tinyurl.com/kn49vk
>> *
>>
>> Here's my script code:
>> *http://paste.ubuntu.com/259310/
>>
>> *Shouldn't that bug be patched already  :-?
> Are you giving it the contents of the file when it's actually expecting
> the filename?
>
>

Of course the content of the file:
"
C:\Users\Ryniek's WinSe7en\Documents\My 
Dropbox\Aplikacje\Moje_aplikacje\Pythonowe_aplikacje\Skrypty>python ba
ckuper.py -f F:\APLIKACJE\nowegg.exe F:\ MyGGBackup
Checking permissions for reading and writing...
Have permissions on [F:\APLIKACJE\nowegg.exe] for reading.
Have permissions on [F:\] for writing.
Preparing for backup [nowegg.exe]...
Starting backup...
Now adding [nowegg.exe]...
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "backuper.py", line 196, in 
    main_meth()
  File "backuper.py", line 188, in main_meth
    paq.backup_file(pars.options.filename[0], pars.options.filename[1], 
pars.options.filename[2])
  File "backuper.py", line 126, in backup_file
    backup_obj.add(read_obj.read())
  File "E:\WinSe7en Apps\APLIKACJE\ActiveState Python 
2.6\lib\tarfile.py", line 1948, in add
    if self.name is not None and os.path.abspath(name) == self.name:
  File "E:\WinSe7en Apps\APLIKACJE\ActiveState Python 
2.6\lib\ntpath.py", line 458, in abspath
    path = _getfullpathname(path)
TypeError: _getfullpathname() argument 1 must be (buffer overflow), not str
"

See? *backup_obj.add(read_obj.read())*
In previous pasted Traceback you can see *backup_obj.add(read_bin_obj)* 
- read_obj_bin was a reference to the *read_obj.read()* .

Do only I have this problem or Python programming under Windows is 
nightmare? 


From james.harris.1 at googlemail.com  Tue Aug 25 17:26:05 2009
From: james.harris.1 at googlemail.com (James Harris)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:26:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
References:  
	
	 
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com> 
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

On 24 Aug, 03:49, Dennis Lee Bieber  wrote:

...

> > Here's another suggested number literal format. First, keep the
> > familar 0x and 0b of C and others and to add 0t for octal. (T is the
> >thirdletter of octal as X is thethirdletter of hex.) The numbers
> > above would be
>
> ? ? ? ? The thing is -- "x" and "hex" have similar pronunciations: (h)ecks;
> the name of the radix is its own reminder for the character to use
> without thinking such conventions as "thirdletter of the radix name".
>
> ? ? ? ? But "t" (tee) has no pronunciation resemblance to "oct" (o'kt)
> whereas the unlovely "o" at least if taken as a short vowel sound is
> similar to the "o" of "oct" given the short stop between it and the
> "ct".
>
> > ? 0b1011, 0t7621, 0xc26b
>
> ? ? ? ? And "b" for binary breaks the "thirdletter of radix name"
> convention... You should be using "n" for that (and "c" for decimal )

I wasn't proposing a convention of using the third character of the
base name. I was saying that t is not too unreasonable given that we
use x for hex (rather than h).

>
> ? ? ? ? Or we use b, o, d, h (as the HP calculator) and drop the "x"
> version.
>
>
>
> > where the three characters "0.(" begin the sequence.
>
> ? ? ? ? Ugly...
>
> > Comments? Improvements?
>
> ? ? ? ? Retaining which ever character is finally decided, I'd make all
> radix specified literals follow a quoted format:
>
> ? ? ? ? "digits"radix
>
> ? ? ? ? "01110"b
> ? ? ? ? "123"d (of course, just 123 would be allowed for simplicity)
> ? ? ? ? "7C"x
> ? ? ? ? "327"o

The quoting is good. For hex, decimal, octal and binary, however, I
can't see a good reason to change away from the conventional prefix
form. And, in general, it's easier for a human to parse if the base is
specified first.

>
> ? ? ? ? Probably wouldn't need that much change to the parser as it would,
> left to right, see a string, and then when the string is not followed by
> one white space character, find a radix marker -- the parser would then
> parse the string using the specified radix, and emit the appropriate
> numeric value instead of a string value.

Maybe. I think, though, that having the base as prefix would make the
parser's job easier as well as the job of humans. It's easier if we
know what we are parsing before we parse it rather than afterwards.

> ? ? ? ?It only adds one extra
> character (instead of leading 0r, one has ""r), and the leading " serves
> as a warning to a reader that this is not directly readable as a number.
>
> ? ? ? ? The alternative syntax of radix"digits" is the same length, but adds
> to the parsing as it initially looks like a name entity, then hits the
> quote, and has to back up to interpret the result as a radix marker.

True. The beginning of a number should be numeric. Using your scheme,
though, instead of radix"digits" you could have 0radix"digits".

> 0r
> format starts as a number, hits a radix marker while the
> "conversion/accumulator" is still a 0 value (0 is 0 in all radix) and
> switches the converter to accept the digits in the specified radix.

Sounds like you are suggesting 0radix"digits" but I'm not sure.

>
> ? ? ? ? Whereas all prefix versions that don't start with a 0r tend to
> require more complex parsing:
>
> ? ? ? ? 0.(
>
> starts out looking like a number (the 0)... a floating point number (the
> .)... a function/method call on a floating point 0... WAIT? floating
> point numbers aren't callables (yet! I'm sure someone is going to show a
> way to define a variable bound to a number as a callable, though not to
> a literal number)... throw away this parse tree branch, back up and
> reparse as special numeric radix prefix...

You've laid it on thick but I agree in principle. What about
radix"digits" where radix is numeric: So 2"1101" or 3"122"? (Not to
replace 0b1101 etc but to supplement it for arbitrary bases.)

>
> ? ? ? ? Of course, one still has to consider what will be used for \
> character encoding... \x0F vs \013 vs \b0001111?

The plans I had did not allow for the suggestions above so I have no
comments on character encoding yet but it's good that you mentioned
it.

James


From pydecker at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 17:31:55 2009
From: pydecker at gmail.com (Peter Decker)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 17:31:55 -0400
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
In-Reply-To: <20090825132439.d6cb18ca.feliphil@gmx.net>
References: 
	<20090825132439.d6cb18ca.feliphil@gmx.net>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 7:24 AM, Wolfgang Keller wrote:

> The only framework that seems to be worth trying is Dabo. Unfortunately there's little documentation, and that's mostly outdated.

To be honest, that was my biggest concern when I tried Dabo. However,
after as small a learning curve as one could expect for any
non-trivial tool, it seemed that if I wasn't sure what a particular
way to do something was, the most obvious guess was almost always
correct. Contrast that with developing in wxPython, which has quite a
bit of documentation, which I constantly had to refer to, because the
confusing and inconsistent design.

There is a step by step guide on Google docs written by one of the
authors that is a very helpful approach to using Dabo. The authors are
also very active on the dabo-users list, and any questions are quickly
answered.

So I guess if you need a desktop framework in Python, I would strongly
urge you to check out Dabo and not let the volume of documentation
scare you off.

-- 

# p.d.


From jjposner at optimum.net  Tue Aug 25 17:56:51 2009
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 17:56:51 -0400
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A945E23.2060802@optimum.net>

Stephen Hansen said:
>
>
>     But http://docs.python.org/tutorial/classes.html says, in Section
>     9.3 "A First Look at Classes":
>
>     When a class definition is entered, a new namespace is created,
>     and used as the local scope ? thus, all assignments to local variables
>     go into this new namespace. In particular, function definitions bind
>     the name of the new function here.
>
> [snip] 
>
>
>     (BTW, Diez, your toy example is another demonstration that there
>     *is* a class-scope-lookup: the "def" statement binds the name
>     "fact" in the class scope, and the assignment statement looks up
>     the name "fact" in that scope.)
>
>
> This sounds like a fundamental confusion -- a namespace is not 
> equivalent to a scope, really, I think.

My apologies if I was being too loose with the terms "namespace" and 
"scope". I was trying to use Diez's terminology (e.g. 
"class-scope-lookup"). But I think you agree with me in *almost* 
everything you say below.

>
> The def statement creates a function object, and assigns it to the 
> given name, in its /local scope/ which is the class's namespace -- but 
> that is not a new scope. Its just, during class creation, the local scope.
>
> When you enter a class definition, a new namespace is created, and 
> that is used as the local scope during the class's definition. Under 
> "class Foo", the local scope is this class's namespace-- and the 
> global scope is the module's namespace. Any lookup operation checks 
> first in the local scope, then in the global scope... 
>
> When the "def fact(...)" is executed (note that class bodies are 
> executed on load, function bodies aren't), a new namespace is created 
> as well-- the function's namespace-- and its used as the local scope. 
> During execution of the code, it looks up in the local scope first-- 
> and then it looks up in the global scope if it doesn't find anything. 
> There /is/ no class-lookup-scope... but there IS a class namespace.
>
> There's just those two scopes: but the namespace bound to those scopes 
> changes as you enter different parts of the code. 
>
> For a long time that's all there was, just the local and global scope: 
> to access any other namespace required you to explicitly address it. 
> The class namespace remains accessible only via explicit addressing, 
> but PEP 227 in Python 2.1/2.2 introduced static nested scopes. But 
> that applies only to enclosing functions: embedding one function into 
> another.
>
> You can only call recursive functions if the function is able to refer 
> to itself according to the same lookup rules: is the function's name 
> in the local scope? No it's not... is it in the global scope? No? Then 
> it can't call itself recursively... well, unless its a method, and it 
> addresses itself specifically-- with "self.".

All of the above is consistent with my previous post.

>
> The OP's probably is that during the execution of the class body, the 
> class doesn't exist... so the 'def fact' -can't- use Classname.fact to 
> address itself explicitly, and within fact the locals don't contain a 
> reference to the function itself, and its globals don't either. You 
> just can't do that.

Here's where we disagree, and I'm sticking to my guns. The fact that the 
class definition has not been completely processed is irrelevant. The 
OP's problem was attempting to implement a recursive function. A 
non-recursive implementation of fact() works fine:

class ThisWorks(object):
    def fact(n):
        answer = 1
        i = 1
        while i <= n:
            answer *= i
            i += 1
        return answer

    clsvar = fact(4)

print ThisWorks.clsvar  # output: 24


> The right way, IMHO, is to move 'fact' up and out of the class ...

We're back to agreement on this point!

-John



From piet at cs.uu.nl  Tue Aug 25 17:57:21 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 23:57:21 +0200
Subject: conditional for-statement
References: 
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

>>>>> seb  (s) wrote:

>s> i am still a bit puzzle by the following.

>s> I read in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Python_syntax_and_semantics#Generators

>s> """Python 3.0 unifies all collection types by introducing dict and set
>s> comprehensions, similar to list comprehensions:

>>>>> [ n*n for n in range(5) ] # regular list comprehension
>s> [0, 1, 4, 9, 16]
>>>>> 
>>>>> { n*n for n in range(5) } # set comprehension
>s> {0, 1, 4, 16, 9}
>>>>> 
>>>>> { n: n*n for n in range(5) } # dict comprehension
>s> {0: 0, 1: 1, 2: 4, 3: 9, 4: 16}
>s> """
>s> and we can add to this list the quite similar syntax for generator
>s> expressions.

>s> On all these loop constructs, one can consistenly add filtering on a
>s> condition by adding an "if ..." after the "for ... in ..." part (and
>s> it looks to me difficult to argue, for instance, that we should not
>s> allow filtering for dict comprehesion because we could get the same
>s> result by some other construct)

You can also say:
[x+y for x in range(3) for y in range(4) if x < y]
If you want to write this as a loop you have to put the for's on
separate lines separated by colons, so why not the if also? Or would you
also like to have the for's on one line?
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Tue Aug 25 18:05:01 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 23:05:01 +0100
Subject: TypeError: _getfullpathname() argument 1 must be (buffer
	overflow), not str in windows xp, while making tarfile
In-Reply-To: <4A945605.1050105@gmail.com>
References: 
	<4A945605.1050105@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A94600D.60409@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Ryniek90 wrote:
>>
>> Ryniek90 wrote:
[snip]
>>> Here's my script code:
>>> *http://paste.ubuntu.com/259310/
>>>
>>> *Shouldn't that bug be patched already  :-?
>> Are you giving it the contents of the file when it's actually expecting
>> the filename?
>>
> 
> Of course the content of the file:
[snip]
> See? *backup_obj.add(read_obj.read())*
> In previous pasted Traceback you can see *backup_obj.add(read_bin_obj)* 
> - read_obj_bin was a reference to the *read_obj.read()* .
> 
The documentation lists the methods "add" and "addfile". Pick one and
provide the values it's expecting. For example, if you choose "add" then
provide the filename, not the contents of the file.

> Do only I have this problem or Python programming under Windows is 
> nightmare?

It's only a nightmare if you don't follow the documentation. :-)


From gbelov at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 18:14:26 2009
From: gbelov at gmail.com (Gleb Belov)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:14:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Help with arrays
Message-ID: 

Hello! I'm working on an exercise wherein I have to write a Guess The
Number game, but it's the computer who's guessing MY number. I can get
it to work, but there's one obvious problem: the computer generates
random numbers until one of them corresponds to my number, but it will
often generate one number (eg. 4) numerous times, meaning it doesn't
know that this number is invalid. What I mean is, it will sometimes
use 37 tries to guess a number out of 1 - 9, which makes no sense,
since it should only take 9 tries, at most. I was trying to find a way
to make a dynamic list of all the numbers the computer generates in
the loop and then make it re-generate the number if the previous
number is present in the list, so it doesn't keep on generating 4 (as
an example). I don't know if that makes sense... Basically, we humans
know that once something is incorrect, there's no point in trying to
use it as the answer next time, because we already know it's
incorrect. How do I go about coding this in Python? I'm still quite
new to the language so any help will be appreciated...


From philip at semanchuk.com  Tue Aug 25 18:21:46 2009
From: philip at semanchuk.com (Philip Semanchuk)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 18:21:46 -0400
Subject: Help with arrays
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <9AE5AB62-5991-4A6E-81EC-2AEE8BFE71F3@semanchuk.com>


On Aug 25, 2009, at 6:14 PM, Gleb Belov wrote:

> Hello! I'm working on an exercise wherein I have to write a Guess The
> Number game, but it's the computer who's guessing MY number. I can get
> it to work, but there's one obvious problem: the computer generates
> random numbers until one of them corresponds to my number, but it will
> often generate one number (eg. 4) numerous times, meaning it doesn't
> know that this number is invalid. What I mean is, it will sometimes
> use 37 tries to guess a number out of 1 - 9, which makes no sense,
> since it should only take 9 tries, at most. I was trying to find a way
> to make a dynamic list of all the numbers the computer generates in
> the loop and then make it re-generate the number if the previous
> number is present in the list, so it doesn't keep on generating 4 (as
> an example). I don't know if that makes sense... Basically, we humans
> know that once something is incorrect, there's no point in trying to
> use it as the answer next time, because we already know it's
> incorrect. How do I go about coding this in Python? I'm still quite
> new to the language so any help will be appreciated...

One cheap way to do it (not necessarily efficient) is to make a list  
of your possible guesses (e.g. range(1,10)), use random.shuffle() to  
put them in random order and then run through the guesses one at a time.

HTH
Philip


From farberow at wisc.edu  Tue Aug 25 18:34:10 2009
From: farberow at wisc.edu (Carrie Farberow)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 17:34:10 -0500
Subject: Python on Crays
In-Reply-To: <1f5c81d8-4f79-4eea-b1bd-af48ab9ddc82@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<1f5c81d8-4f79-4eea-b1bd-af48ab9ddc82@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6e80874a13151.4a942092@wiscmail.wisc.edu>

Ok, here are links to word documents outlining the commands I executed as well as the make.log file and the make_install.log file

instructions/commands:
https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/xythoswfs/webui/_xy-29018965_1-t_dSnfEm5b

make.log:
https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/xythoswfs/webui/_xy-29018966_1-t_zjqLuV5v
javascript:parent.send('smtp')
make_install.log:
https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/xythoswfs/webui/_xy-29018967_1-t_n8aqH2P

The issue referred to in the previous message (http://bugs.python.org/issue1594809) sounds similar - however I do not think that I can just build the shared unicodedata module and have it work properly, as I am trying to statically link the necessary modules.  I am very new with this, so if I am completely misunderstanding, please feel free to let me know.

Thanks!
Carrie

----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Dickinson 
Date: Friday, August 21, 2009 12:50 pm
Subject: Re: Python on Crays
To: python-list at python.org

> On Aug 21, 12:21?am, Carrie Farberow  wrote:
> > I am trying to build a statically-linked Python based on directions 
> at:
> >
> > http://yt.enzotools.org/wiki/CrayXT5Installation
> >
> > I have tried this on multiple systems. ?The first time I attempt to 
> build python, 'make' runs fine but 'make install' fails with the 
> following error:
> >
> > Sorry: UnicodeError: ("\\N escapes not supported (can't load 
> unicodedata module)",)
> >
> > Any help regarding the source of this error and possible fixes would 
> be appreciated.
> 
> Hmm.  There's not a lot of information to go on here.
> What version of Python is this? Python 2.6.2?
> Have you tried Googling for that exact error message?
> 
> The following issue looks as though it might be relevant:
> 
> http://bugs.python.org/issue1594809
> 
> especially since it looks as though the directions you linked
> to involve messing with the PYTHONPATH environment variable.
> 
> If you could post a log somewhere[*] showing the exact commands
> that you executed, along with all the output (and especially
> all the output from 'make' and 'make install'), that might help
> someone diagnose the problem further.
> 
> Mark
> 
> [*] I'm not sure where, though.  Posting all that output directly
> in a newsgroup message might not be considered very friendly.
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From samwyse at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 18:35:55 2009
From: samwyse at gmail.com (samwyse)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:35:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: best way to display photos
References: <96e9b045-d591-485e-b831-ba1462345df9@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<7fhfboF2ksfhiU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 25, 1:40?am, Thomas Guettler  wrote:
> Some years ago I had the same problem.
>
> I wrote a simple app with pygtk. You get get it from here:
> ? ?http://guettli.sourceforge.net/gthumpy/src/README.html
> The next pictures get loaded in background. Switching from
> one image to the next is faster then in some other apps. But
> somehow it is not ready for the public. I guess I am the only
> one who uses it.
>
> Flags are symlinks in the home directory .local/share/app/gthumpy. This
> means you should not move your images, otherwise the flags get lost.
>
> I don't think it will work on ms-windows, but it could be ported.
>
> Or you use mirage:http://mirageiv.berlios.de/index.html
>
> It is a pygtk image viewer. You can define shortcuts that execute user defined
> commands.
>
> ? Thomas
>
> samwyse schrieb:
>
> > I have several thousand photographs that I need to quickly classify,
> > all by myself. ?After extensive searches, I have been unable to find
> > anything to my liking, so desire to write something myself. ?I'm
> > thinking about displaying a photo and waiting for keystrokes to tag
> > it; 'i' for interior, 'e' for exterior, etc., while hitting space or
> > enter will advance to the next photo. ?My big question is, what's the
> > best way to display the photos. ?I've used PIL in the past, but IIRC
> > it uses an external program. ?Pygame is the next obvious choice, but
> > like PIL it requires an add-in. ?That leaves Tkinter. ?Has anyone used
> > it to display .JPG files, perhaps with rescaling to fit my screen?
> > How is its performance? ?Is there any other possibilities that I've
> > missed? ?Thanks.
>
> --
> Thomas Guettler,http://www.thomas-guettler.de/
> E-Mail: guettli (*) thomas-guettler + de

Thanks!  Both of these look very similar to what I need.  I will
investigate further.


From wwy58 at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 25 18:43:28 2009
From: wwy58 at yahoo.com (David)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:43:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: mod_python: Permission denied
Message-ID: <0fb0ed29-82bb-4bdf-aa24-071c158eea2a@k13g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I googled online however I did not find a clue my question. So I post
it here.

I created a mod_python CGI to upload a file and saves it in folder "/
var/www/keyword-query/files/".  My code runs in root.

     fileitem = req.form['file']

   # Test if the file was uploaded
   if fileitem.filename:

      # strip leading path from file name to avoid directory traversal
attacks
      fname = os.path.basename(fileitem.filename)
      # build absolute path to files directory
      dir_path = os.path.join(os.path.dirname(req.filename), 'files')
      f = open(os.path.join(dir_path, fname), 'wb', 10000)

      # Read the file in chunks
      for chunk in fbuffer(fileitem.file):
         f.write(chunk)
      f.close()
      message = 'The file "%s" was uploaded successfully' % fname

I got:

 File "/var/www/keyword-query/upload.py", line 30, in upload
    f = open(os.path.join(dir_path, fname), 'wb', 10000)

IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/www/keyword-query/files/
Defrosting.rtf'


"Defrosting.rtf" is a file on the desktop of my Windows XP computer.

Anybody knows what the problem is?

Thanks for your replies.



From graham.dumpleton at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 18:46:07 2009
From: graham.dumpleton at gmail.com (Graham Dumpleton)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:46:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How does the file.seek() work ?
References: <2feaaf6c-d723-4843-a9e5-271d00187180@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <1532ff09-f892-44c8-8206-10b3c2d16050@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 25, 5:37?am, Tim Chase  wrote:
> > I want the file pointer set to 100 and overwrite everything from there
> [snip]
> > def application(environ, response):
> > ? ? query=os.path.join(os.path.dirname(__file__),'teeeeeeeeeemp')
> > ? ? range=environ.get('HTTP_RANGE','bytes=0-').replace
> > ('bytes=','').split(',')
> > ? ? offset=[]
> > ? ? for r in range: offset.append(r.split('-'))
> > ? ? with open(query,'w+') as f:
> > ? ? ? ? ?f.seek(int(offset[0][0]))
> > ? ? ? ? ?while True:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?chunk=environ['wsgi.input'].read(8192).decode('latin1')
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?if not chunk: break
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?f.write(chunk)
> > ? ? f=open(query)
> > ? ? l=str(os.fstat(f.fileno()).st_size)
> > ? ? response('200 OK', [('Content-Type', 'text/plain'), ('Content-
> > Length', str(len(l)))])
> > ? ? return [l]
>
> A couple items of note:
>
> - you don't open the file in binary mode -- seek is more reliable
> in binary mode :)

If my memory is right, if file is opened in binary mode, also wouldn't
need to be decoding the WSGI input stream as latin-1 to get a string.
Instead can just deal with bytes and write bytes to file.

Graham

> - if you want to lop off the rest of the file, use f.truncate()
>
> An example:
>
> # create the initial file
> ?>>> f = file('zzz.zzz', 'wb+')
> ?>>> f.write('abcdefghijklmnop')
> ?>>> f.close()
>
> ?>>> f = file('zzz.zzz', 'ab+')
> ?>>> f.read() # show the existing content
> 'abcdefghijklmnop'
> ?>>> f.seek(5) # seek to the desired offset
> ?>>> f.truncate() # throw away everything after here
> ?>>> f.write('zyx') # write the new data at pos=5
> ?>>> f.close()
>
> # demonstrate that it worked
> ?>>> f = file('zzz.zzz', 'rb')
> ?>>> f.read()
> 'abcdezyx'
> ?>>> f.close()
>
> > also why must I open the file a second time to know how big it is ?
>
> Likely the output has been buffered. ?You can try using
>
> ? ?f.flush() # write all the data to the disk first
> ? ?size = os.fstat(f.fileno()).st_size
>
> which seems to do the trick for me.
>
> -tkc



From graham.dumpleton at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 18:48:38 2009
From: graham.dumpleton at gmail.com (Graham Dumpleton)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:48:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: mod_python: Permission denied
References: <0fb0ed29-82bb-4bdf-aa24-071c158eea2a@k13g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <09e25701-5d85-4aed-a4bb-4fa94df74f5c@v37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 26, 8:43?am, David  wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I googled online however I did not find a clue my question. So I post
> it here.
>
> I created a mod_python CGI to upload a file and saves it in folder "/
> var/www/keyword-query/files/". ?My code runs in root.
>
> ? ? ?fileitem = req.form['file']
>
> ? ?# Test if the file was uploaded
> ? ?if fileitem.filename:
>
> ? ? ? # strip leading path from file name to avoid directory traversal
> attacks
> ? ? ? fname = os.path.basename(fileitem.filename)
> ? ? ? # build absolute path to files directory
> ? ? ? dir_path = os.path.join(os.path.dirname(req.filename), 'files')
> ? ? ? f = open(os.path.join(dir_path, fname), 'wb', 10000)
>
> ? ? ? # Read the file in chunks
> ? ? ? for chunk in fbuffer(fileitem.file):
> ? ? ? ? ?f.write(chunk)
> ? ? ? f.close()
> ? ? ? message = 'The file "%s" was uploaded successfully' % fname
>
> I got:
>
> ?File "/var/www/keyword-query/upload.py", line 30, in upload
> ? ? f = open(os.path.join(dir_path, fname), 'wb', 10000)
>
> IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/www/keyword-query/files/
> Defrosting.rtf'
>
> "Defrosting.rtf" is a file on the desktop of my Windows XP computer.
>
> Anybody knows what the problem is?
>
> Thanks for your replies.

Apache service likely running as a special user which doesn't have
write permission to your directory.

Graham


From wwy58 at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 25 18:48:47 2009
From: wwy58 at yahoo.com (David)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:48:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: mod_python: Permission denied
References: <0fb0ed29-82bb-4bdf-aa24-071c158eea2a@k13g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5fc7570c-8f77-429d-8c9d-5ba74573e440@k13g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

A little more info: "Defrosting.rtf" is a file that I wanted to
upload. This file was supposed to upload to folder '/var/www/keyword-
query/files/'.

My code runs in root.


From somebody at somewhere.com  Tue Aug 25 18:50:17 2009
From: somebody at somewhere.com (Stephen Fairchild)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 23:50:17 +0100
Subject: Help with arrays
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

Philip Semanchuk wrote:

> 
> On Aug 25, 2009, at 6:14 PM, Gleb Belov wrote:
> 
>> Hello! I'm working on an exercise wherein I have to write a Guess The
>> Number game, but it's the computer who's guessing MY number. I can get
>> it to work, but there's one obvious problem: the computer generates
>> random numbers until one of them corresponds to my number, but it will
>> often generate one number (eg. 4) numerous times, meaning it doesn't
>> know that this number is invalid. What I mean is, it will sometimes
>> use 37 tries to guess a number out of 1 - 9, which makes no sense,
>> since it should only take 9 tries, at most. I was trying to find a way
>> to make a dynamic list of all the numbers the computer generates in
>> the loop and then make it re-generate the number if the previous
>> number is present in the list, so it doesn't keep on generating 4 (as
>> an example). I don't know if that makes sense... Basically, we humans
>> know that once something is incorrect, there's no point in trying to
>> use it as the answer next time, because we already know it's
>> incorrect. How do I go about coding this in Python? I'm still quite
>> new to the language so any help will be appreciated...
> 
> One cheap way to do it (not necessarily efficient) is to make a list
> of your possible guesses (e.g. range(1,10)), use random.shuffle() to
> put them in random order and then run through the guesses one at a time.

import random
import time

l = range(1, 10)

while l:
    print l.pop(random.randint(0, len(l) - 1))
    time.sleep(2)

-- 
Stephen Fairchild


From wwy58 at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 25 18:58:54 2009
From: wwy58 at yahoo.com (David)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:58:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: mod_python: Permission denied
References: <0fb0ed29-82bb-4bdf-aa24-071c158eea2a@k13g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<5fc7570c-8f77-429d-8c9d-5ba74573e440@k13g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0ec8929f-eab8-4655-8661-40142ae8c908@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

disclaimer: i did not write this code. i copied it and inserted into
my cgi code. it is from http://webpython.codepoint.net/mod_python_publisher_big_file_upload.


From wwy58 at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 25 19:00:46 2009
From: wwy58 at yahoo.com (David)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:00:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: mod_python: Permission denied
References: <0fb0ed29-82bb-4bdf-aa24-071c158eea2a@k13g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<5fc7570c-8f77-429d-8c9d-5ba74573e440@k13g2000prh.googlegroups.com> 
	<0ec8929f-eab8-4655-8661-40142ae8c908@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0c73d5bf-3f5d-4308-a7f0-276e4d6d9fa9@x25g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

Thanks Graham. Let me contact Admin.


From geekworking at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 19:04:01 2009
From: geekworking at gmail.com (geekworking)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:04:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
References: 
	<20090825132439.d6cb18ca.feliphil@gmx.net> 
	
Message-ID: <63bb7834-80ac-4894-9ef5-2598ecac72cc@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

If you are planning a database driven app, you should first settle on
a DB server. Any real enterprise DB system will put all of the
business logic in the database server. The choice of a front end
should be secondary.


Wikipedia's list of Python apps:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Python_software


From wwy58 at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 25 19:07:34 2009
From: wwy58 at yahoo.com (David)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:07:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: mod_python: Permission denied
References: <0fb0ed29-82bb-4bdf-aa24-071c158eea2a@k13g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<5fc7570c-8f77-429d-8c9d-5ba74573e440@k13g2000prh.googlegroups.com> 
	<0ec8929f-eab8-4655-8661-40142ae8c908@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com> 
	<0c73d5bf-3f5d-4308-a7f0-276e4d6d9fa9@x25g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <134a6022-f7d5-4871-bb7c-e38af0cd7679@x6g2000prc.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 25, 4:00?pm, David  wrote:
> Thanks Graham. Let me contact Admin.

Hi Graham: you are right. it's fixed now. Thanks again.


From mdekauwe at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 19:48:35 2009
From: mdekauwe at gmail.com (Mart.)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:48:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Help with arrays
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <9be8986b-95c8-48fa-a298-3b97fa598081@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 25, 11:50?pm, Stephen Fairchild  wrote:
> Philip Semanchuk wrote:
>
> > On Aug 25, 2009, at 6:14 PM, Gleb Belov wrote:
>
> >> Hello! I'm working on an exercise wherein I have to write a Guess The
> >> Number game, but it's the computer who's guessing MY number. I can get
> >> it to work, but there's one obvious problem: the computer generates
> >> random numbers until one of them corresponds to my number, but it will
> >> often generate one number (eg. 4) numerous times, meaning it doesn't
> >> know that this number is invalid. What I mean is, it will sometimes
> >> use 37 tries to guess a number out of 1 - 9, which makes no sense,
> >> since it should only take 9 tries, at most. I was trying to find a way
> >> to make a dynamic list of all the numbers the computer generates in
> >> the loop and then make it re-generate the number if the previous
> >> number is present in the list, so it doesn't keep on generating 4 (as
> >> an example). I don't know if that makes sense... Basically, we humans
> >> know that once something is incorrect, there's no point in trying to
> >> use it as the answer next time, because we already know it's
> >> incorrect. How do I go about coding this in Python? I'm still quite
> >> new to the language so any help will be appreciated...
>
> > One cheap way to do it (not necessarily efficient) is to make a list
> > of your possible guesses (e.g. range(1,10)), use random.shuffle() to
> > put them in random order and then run through the guesses one at a time.
>
> import random
> import time
>
> l = range(1, 10)
>
> while l:
> ? ? print l.pop(random.randint(0, len(l) - 1))
> ? ? time.sleep(2)
>
> --
> Stephen Fairchild

Perhaps generate all of the possible moves at the outset in some form
of lookup table that you can refer to? I think it is a similar thing
to how computers play chess, I think it is called "hash tables"


From cevomed at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 19:48:52 2009
From: cevomed at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-9?Q?Cevahir_Demirk=FDran?=)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 01:48:52 +0200
Subject: Division and right shift in python
Message-ID: <3f74e020908251648k7b391a09g78b155507b2f23c4@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I would like to do a floor division by a power of 2 in python to make it
faster than / (modular division in 2.x).
However, it is slower.
What is the reason of that?
I checked them via:

 def f2(x,n):
    t1 = clock()
    r = x/pow(2,n)
    t2 = clock()
    print (t2-t1)
    print r
    t2 = clock()
    r = x>>n
    t3 = clock()
    print (t3-t2)
    print r
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

From evaned at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 19:51:42 2009
From: evaned at gmail.com (Evan Driscoll)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:51:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Context manager to temporarily change the variable of a register 
	[aka write swap(a,b)]
References: <7c171ce3-56a7-482f-addd-c6c86441cba7@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<7c2c560f-d54c-492c-a847-e8ab079faea0@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> 
	<7fivlrF2lsrsuU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
Message-ID: <3da50b33-d79e-4579-9240-ef430ea7c697@m38g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 25, 3:47?pm, Evan Driscoll  wrote:
> So here is my simplified version that only works for globals:

So I think this works if (1) you only use changed_value in the same
module as it's defined in (otherwise it picks up the globals from the
module it's defined in, which is almost certainly not what you want),
and (2) the value you want to change is just a simple variable and not
either something like "os.path" or a builtin.

I have worked on this a bit more and have something that addresses
these issues in at least the cases I've tested. I'm not going to post
the code here, but it is up at
  http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~driscoll/python/utils.py
and there are a few unit tests at
  http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~driscoll/python/utils_test.py

I solved issue (1) by reintroducing the use of inspect to walk back up
the stack a couple frames, but I pulled out the f_globals member
instead of f_locals.

Issue (2a) I fixed by splitting the variable name at periods and
walking through successive dictionaries with each component. Issue
(2b) I fixed by looking for a '__builtins__' entry if the name I'm
looking up doesn't exist.

Right now it's sort of hackish... it probably doesn't respond
particularly well if things go unexpectedly (e.g. a bad variable name
is given) and I should probably verify that the value is unchanged
during the with statement and throw an exception otherwise, but it
probably works well enough for my purposes for now.

Comments are appreciated... a couple of the things in there it seems
like there could very well be reimplementations of things that are
already done.

Evan


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Tue Aug 25 20:04:51 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 17:04:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python, qt, and lgpl
References: 
Message-ID: <1e7a9056-db73-4c4f-be8a-f1b65a91daec@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On 25 Aug, 21:45, Terry Reedy  wrote:

> Will be good news if realized.

Good news for everyone except Riverbank.




From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Tue Aug 25 20:34:11 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 02:34:11 +0200
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c20908251316k2ebc304fk1422c96ddb4158c4@mail.gmail.com>
References: 
	<4A942954.7070702@optimum.net>
	<7a9c25c20908251316k2ebc304fk1422c96ddb4158c4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

25-08-2009 o 22:16:24 Stephen Hansen  wrote:

> The OP's probably is that during the execution of the class body, the  
> class
> doesn't exist... so the 'def fact' -can't- use Classname.fact to address
> itself explicitly, and within fact the locals don't contain a reference  
> to
> the function itself, and its globals don't either. You just can't do  
> that.
> The right way, IMHO, is to move 'fact' up and out of the class into a  
> _fact global variable. Alternatively, you can use a metaclass.

Note that you can also pass a function to the function itself, and then
it works:

>>> class Foo:
...     def func(foo=None):
...         if foo:
...             return foo()
...         else:
...             return '2nd step'
...     x = func(func)
...
>>> Foo.x
'2nd step'

Note that when called from class definition body, func is an ordinary
function, not a method. It become a method *when it's called as a method*
(what is possible *after* creating the class => outside the definition).

Cheers,
*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Tue Aug 25 20:45:32 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 02:45:32 +0200
Subject: Is it a bug?
In-Reply-To: <87b7ce88-1f2f-43ff-8096-6a95a89b6e27@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <87b7ce88-1f2f-43ff-8096-6a95a89b6e27@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

25-08-2009 o 22:51:14 Gleb Belov  wrote:

> I have two questions:
> 1) Is it possible and if so, how do I access each individual element?
> Are there any indexes and what is the syntax?

It's a 'Read-The-Friendly-Manual' question.

(hint: library reference - Built-in Types - ...)

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From somebody at somewhere.com  Tue Aug 25 20:59:45 2009
From: somebody at somewhere.com (Stephen Fairchild)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 01:59:45 +0100
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
Message-ID: 

You are trying to run code in a class that does not exist yet. 


def Demo():
    def fact(n):
        if n < 2:
            return 1
        else:
            return n * fact(n - 1)
    return type("Demo", (object,), {"fact": staticmethod(fact), "_classvar":
fact(5)})
Demo = Demo()

d = Demo()
print d._classvar    # prints 120
print d.fact(7)      # prints 5040
print Demo           # prints 

-- 
Stephen Fairchild


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Tue Aug 25 21:02:11 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 03:02:11 +0200
Subject: break unichr instead of fix ord?
In-Reply-To: <2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

25-08-2009 o 21:45:49  wrote:

> In Python 2.5 on Windows I could do [*1]:
>
>   # Create a unicode character outside of the BMP.
>   >>> a = u'\U00010040'
>
>   # On Windows it is represented as a surogate pair.
[snip]
> On Python 2.6, unichr() was "fixed" (using the word
> loosely) so that it too now fails with characters outside
> the BMP.
[snip]
> Does not this effectively make unichr() and ord() useless
> on Windows for all but a subset of unicode characters?

Are you sure, you couldn't have UCS-4-compiled Python distro
for Windows?? :-O

*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From phily05 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 21:09:28 2009
From: phily05 at gmail.com (Phil)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 18:09:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python on the Web
Message-ID: 

I've seen lots of web sites explaining everything, but for whatever
reason I seem to not be picking something up.
I am a graphical person, which is probably the reason I haven't found
my answer.
May somebody please confirm if my diagram accurately represents the
stack, generally speaking.

http://i26.tinypic.com/1fe82x.png

Even if that is the case, I'm having a hard time understanding the
differences. I guess wsgiref has absolutely nothing to do with FCGI/
SCGI/CGI and simply receives and responds to HTTP requests following
the WSGI specification? Does it just spawn a new thread for each
request? If so, then how is this any different than a production
server with FCGI?

The way I am understanding the 'Production' side of that picture is
that the web server (eg. lighttpd) creates a single FCGI process. The
FCGI process is actually the entry point of the Framework/Application
which sets up Flup's WSGIServer, being the interface between FCGI and
the Framework/Application? What I mean is, it is just the code that
the web server loads to start with, example...
    from flup.server.fcgi import WSGIServer
    from app import application
    WSGIServer(application).run()
... Then for each HTTP request, Flup's WSGIServer creates a new thread
to handle the request?

As I've read elsewhere, "These days, FastCGI is never used directly.
Just like mod_python it is only used for the deployment of WSGI
applications." As far as I understand, the main (or only?) reasoning
for this is because WSGI makes Python applications easier to deploy
without having to worry about whether using FCGI/SCGI/CGI.

What would be involved to run Python on the web using FCGI without
WSGI? I can feel the flames already. This isn't the only reason I want
to know, but one reason is that I want to use Python 3.1 and as I
understand, this will have to wait for the WSGI 2.0 specification to
ensure time isn't wasted.

I apologize if the questions are ridiculous. I've just recently got
into web programming and it seems that in order for me to use Python,
I need a deep understanding of web servers, HTTP, FCGI, etc. I have
more questions but they go more off topic, so I will save it for
another thread, another day.

I realize there is a large number of questions, so thanks for any help.


From terry.yinzhe at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 21:11:53 2009
From: terry.yinzhe at gmail.com (Terry)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 18:11:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: multiprocessing managers and socket connection.
References: <722664f1-81af-45da-ae40-070bca8f3ee0@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0af6687a-e36d-47c3-af5e-7e66eacbb3ce@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 25, 10:14?pm, Chris  wrote:
> I've been using multiprocessing managers and I really like the
> functionality.
>
> I have a question about reconnecting to a manager. I have a situation
> where I start on one machine (A) a manager that is listening and then
> on another machine (B) connects to that manager and uses its proxy
> object to call functions on the manager's computer; this all works as
> expected. But, if the manager from A shuts down, B's application won't
> notice because in the MP code it ignores socket error
> errno.ECONNREFUSED. If A becomes available again or is restarted, B
> doesn't automatically reconnect either and continue its operation.
> It's function is basically stopped.
>
> Here is the code from connection.py:
> while 1:
> ? ? ? ? try:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? s.connect(address)
> ? ? ? ? except socket.error, e:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? if e.args[0] != errno.ECONNREFUSED: # connection refused
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? debug('failed to connect to address %s', address)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? raise
> ? ? ? ? ? ? time.sleep(0.01)
> ? ? ? ? else:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? break
>
> How can I have B automatically reconnect to A and continue its work
> once A is available again?

I think you need to retry repeatedly until successfully connected.

br, Terry


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 21:13:11 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 18:13:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: can python make web applications?
References: 
	
	 
	<02a3ba7c$0$18215$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <1e23a271-785b-4600-892f-32c85d717f2e@f18g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

Mark  wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:45:17 +0100, Goke Aruna wrote:
> >http://www.openerp.com, all done is python.
>
> That does look impressive. Is that Django or Turbogears?

Turbogears, according to the product's wikipedia page.


From terry.yinzhe at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 21:22:02 2009
From: terry.yinzhe at gmail.com (Terry)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 18:22:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Return value of multiprocessing manager registerred function
Message-ID: <4337084f-cf9b-4b9c-a0cc-ba8f0821f31a@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I'm using the multiprocessing.manager to run procedures remotely. It
all worked fine except I hope to have a different return value type.

The remote function calls always return a proxy, which when I need to
get the value it need to connect to the manager again to fetch it. But
I just need the value, not the proxy.

Can I just return the value instead of a proxy from a manager?

br, Terry


From davea at ieee.org  Tue Aug 25 21:26:12 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 21:26:12 -0400
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <4A948F34.3030703@ieee.org>

Stephen Fairchild wrote:
> You are trying to run code in a class that does not exist yet. 
>
>
> def Demo():
>     def fact(n):
>         if n < 2:
>             return 1
>         else:
>             return n * fact(n - 1)
>     return type("Demo", (object,), {"fact": staticmethod(fact), "_classvar":
> fact(5)})
> Demo = Demo()
>
> d = Demo()
> print d._classvar    # prints 120
> print d.fact(7)      # prints 5040
> print Demo           # prints 
>
>   
In all these messages, something I haven't seen pointed out is that 
fact() has no self argument.  Seems to me that makes it a staticmethod, 
so it should be declared that way.  But you can't call a static method 
from the class scope, since the class hasn't been completed yet.  That's 
the part I consider a problem, not all the rest.  I've seen the same 
problem in Forth, where 'smudge' is used to prevent a definition from 
accidentally calling itself.  But I don't recall whether that was in the 
standard, or just vendor's helpful additions.

Anyway, my first choice is to move the static method out of the class.  
Second choice workaround follows, moving the initialization of the class 
variable to after the class, when it can properly use the class name.:

class Demo(object):
    @staticmethod
    def fact(n):
        if n < 2:
            return 1
        else:
            return n * Demo.fact(n - 1)

Demo._classvar = Demo.fact(5)

print Demo._classvar
xx = Demo()
print xx.fact(6)

DaveA


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Aug 25 21:41:55 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 25 Aug 2009 18:41:55 -0700
Subject: web frameworks that support Python 3
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
Graham Dumpleton   wrote:
>On Aug 24, 6:34=A0am, Sebastian Wiesner  wrote:
>> 
>> In any case, there is bottle [1], which provides a *very minimal* framewo=
>rk
>> for WSGI web development. =A0Don't expect too much, it is really small, a=
>nd
>> doesn't do much more than routing and minimal templating.
>>
>> However, it is the only Python-3-compatible web framework I know of.
>>
>> [1]http://bottle.paws.de/page/start
>
>There is one big flaw with your claim. That is the there is no WSGI
>specification for Python 3.0 as yet. Anything that claims to work with
>WSGI and Python 3.0 is just a big guess as far as how WSGI for Python
>3.0 may work.

Perhaps you meant "library" instead of "specification"?  I don't
understand how a language can be missing a specification.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I support family values -- Addams family values" --www.nancybuttons.com


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 21:47:22 2009
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:47:22 -0500
Subject: Python on the Web
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-25 20:09 PM, Phil wrote:
> I've seen lots of web sites explaining everything, but for whatever
> reason I seem to not be picking something up.
> I am a graphical person, which is probably the reason I haven't found
> my answer.
> May somebody please confirm if my diagram accurately represents the
> stack, generally speaking.
>
> http://i26.tinypic.com/1fe82x.png
>
> Even if that is the case, I'm having a hard time understanding the
> differences. I guess wsgiref has absolutely nothing to do with FCGI/
> SCGI/CGI and simply receives and responds to HTTP requests following
> the WSGI specification?

Correct.

> Does it just spawn a new thread for each
> request?

No, it is single-threaded.

> If so, then how is this any different than a production
> server with FCGI?
>
> The way I am understanding the 'Production' side of that picture is
> that the web server (eg. lighttpd) creates a single FCGI process. The
> FCGI process is actually the entry point of the Framework/Application
> which sets up Flup's WSGIServer, being the interface between FCGI and
> the Framework/Application? What I mean is, it is just the code that
> the web server loads to start with, example...
>      from flup.server.fcgi import WSGIServer
>      from app import application
>      WSGIServer(application).run()
> ... Then for each HTTP request, Flup's WSGIServer creates a new thread
> to handle the request?

Something like that, yes.

> As I've read elsewhere, "These days, FastCGI is never used directly.
> Just like mod_python it is only used for the deployment of WSGI
> applications." As far as I understand, the main (or only?) reasoning
> for this is because WSGI makes Python applications easier to deploy
> without having to worry about whether using FCGI/SCGI/CGI.

Yes, that is the primary reason for WSGI, in my mind. There are other things 
like the composability of applications, but the decoupling of application 
authoring from deployment is the sine qua non, in my opinion.

> What would be involved to run Python on the web using FCGI without
> WSGI? I can feel the flames already. This isn't the only reason I want
> to know, but one reason is that I want to use Python 3.1 and as I
> understand, this will have to wait for the WSGI 2.0 specification to
> ensure time isn't wasted.

I am willing to bet that the FCGI libraries haven't been upgraded to Python 3.x, 
either. I suspect that the most 3.x-updating work will be going into WSGI and 
the adapters. E.g.

   http://www.saddi.com/software/news/archives/64-Dabbling-in-Python-3.0.html

You may want to rethink the Python 3.x requirement, though. It will probably be 
much less a waste of your time to write your app using a framework like Django 
or Pylons on Python 2.x and then upgrade to Python 3.x when they do.

> I apologize if the questions are ridiculous. I've just recently got
> into web programming and it seems that in order for me to use Python,
> I need a deep understanding of web servers, HTTP, FCGI, etc. I have
> more questions but they go more off topic, so I will save it for
> another thread, another day.

Knowing something about HTTP will certainly help get into the right mindset to 
know what limitations and capabilities web apps can have.

Typically, though, you use a framework that abstracts most of this stuff away 
from you. You usually only need to delve into the details in very specific 
circumstances.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From lists at cheimes.de  Tue Aug 25 21:49:42 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 03:49:42 +0200
Subject: break unichr instead of fix ord?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Jan Kaliszewski wrote:
> Are you sure, you couldn't have UCS-4-compiled Python distro
> for Windows?? :-O

Nope, Windows require UCS-2 builds.

Christian



From davea at ieee.org  Tue Aug 25 22:02:56 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 22:02:56 -0400
Subject: Help with arrays
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	
	
Message-ID: <4A9497D0.3010203@ieee.org>



Stephen Fairchild wrote:
> Philip Semanchuk wrote:
>
>   
>> On Aug 25, 2009, at 6:14 PM, Gleb Belov wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> Hello! I'm working on an exercise wherein I have to write a Guess The
>>> Number game, but it's the computer who's guessing MY number. I can get
>>> it to work, but there's one obvious problem: the computer generates
>>> random numbers until one of them corresponds to my number, but it will
>>> often generate one number (eg. 4) numerous times, meaning it doesn't
>>> know that this number is invalid. What I mean is, it will sometimes
>>> use 37 tries to guess a number out of 1 - 9, which makes no sense,
>>> since it should only take 9 tries, at most. I was trying to find a way
>>> to make a dynamic list of all the numbers the computer generates in
>>> the loop and then make it re-generate the number if the previous
>>> number is present in the list, so it doesn't keep on generating 4 (as
>>> an example). I don't know if that makes sense... Basically, we humans
>>> know that once something is incorrect, there's no point in trying to
>>> use it as the answer next time, because we already know it's
>>> incorrect. How do I go about coding this in Python? I'm still quite
>>> new to the language so any help will be appreciated...
>>>       
>> One cheap way to do it (not necessarily efficient) is to make a list
>> of your possible guesses (e.g. range(1,10)), use random.shuffle() to
>> put them in random order and then run through the guesses one at a time.
>>     
>
> import random
> import time
>
> l = range(1, 10)
>
> while l:
>     print l.pop(random.randint(0, len(l) - 1))
>     time.sleep(2)
>
>   
While both of these will work well, I'd point out that a direct 
translation of your question is to use a set.  Define an empty set, and 
each time you try a number unsuccessfully, add it to the set.  Then just use
       while x in myset:
               x = newguess()

to find the next guess.  This approach isn't as efficient, but it's a 
useful paradigm to understand.

A separate question is whether the human is supposed to tell the 
computer whether the guess is high or low.  If so, you can eliminate 
many numbers on each guess.   For example, suppose the solution is 8.  A 
guess of 5 would say "too low."  Then you'd cross off now only 5 but 1-4 
as well.

With this change the best solution changes from a random shuffle to a 
binary search.

DaveA




From exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  Tue Aug 25 22:19:59 2009
From: exarkun at twistedmatrix.com (exarkun at twistedmatrix.com)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 02:19:59 -0000
Subject: web frameworks that support Python 3
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: <20090826021959.7027.186838236.divmod.xquotient.13@localhost.localdomain>

On 01:41 am, aahz at pythoncraft.com wrote:
>In article 
>,
>Graham Dumpleton   wrote:
>>On Aug 24, 6:34=A0am, Sebastian Wiesner  wrote:
>>>
>>>In any case, there is bottle [1], which provides a *very minimal* 
>>>framewo=
>>rk
>>>for WSGI web development. =A0Don't expect too much, it is really 
>>>small, a=
>>nd
>>>doesn't do much more than routing and minimal templating.
>>>
>>>However, it is the only Python-3-compatible web framework I know of.
>>>
>>>[1]http://bottle.paws.de/page/start
>>
>>There is one big flaw with your claim. That is the there is no WSGI
>>specification for Python 3.0 as yet. Anything that claims to work with
>>WSGI and Python 3.0 is just a big guess as far as how WSGI for Python
>>3.0 may work.
>
>Perhaps you meant "library" instead of "specification"?

He meant specification.

Python 3.x is different enough from any Python 2.x release that PEP 333 
no longer completely makes sense.  It needs to be modified to be 
applicable to Python 3.x.

So, in the sense that there is no written down, generally agreed upon 
specification for what WSGI on Python 3.x means, there is no... 
specification.

There is, however, apparently, a library. ;)

Jean-Paul


From phily05 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 22:27:53 2009
From: phily05 at gmail.com (Phil)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 19:27:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python on the Web
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

Thank you for the helpful and timely response.

My interest in Python 3.1 was actually to develop a framework. Again,
I can feel the flames. :) I understand there are enough frameworks but
I actually have no applications that I wish to develop. I enjoy
developing these kinds of things from scratch as a learning
experience.

I've been doing fine with 2.x and WSGI, even without understanding
half of this stuff. It is actually my first Python project. Haha. I
just have my own design philosophies that I wish to experiment with.
Python 3.x just makes everything nicer with UNICODE, etc.

Although you've been helpful with almost all of the mentioned
concerns, I am still looking for more details on some of the questions
I've asked. So, if others stumble upon this post, feel free to
contribute further.

Thanks again.


From graham.dumpleton at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 22:52:16 2009
From: graham.dumpleton at gmail.com (Graham Dumpleton)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 19:52:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: web frameworks that support Python 3
References: 
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: <7c16aca3-05c2-4aad-a645-f1e8ca37a097@2g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 26, 12:19?pm, exar... at twistedmatrix.com wrote:
> On 01:41 am, a... at pythoncraft.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >In article
> >,
> >Graham Dumpleton ? wrote:
> >>On Aug 24, 6:34=A0am, Sebastian Wiesner  wrote:
>
> >>>In any case, there is bottle [1], which provides a *very minimal*
> >>>framewo=
> >>rk
> >>>for WSGI web development. =A0Don't expect too much, it is really
> >>>small, a=
> >>nd
> >>>doesn't do much more than routing and minimal templating.
>
> >>>However, it is the only Python-3-compatible web framework I know of.
>
> >>>[1]http://bottle.paws.de/page/start
>
> >>There is one big flaw with your claim. That is the there is no WSGI
> >>specification for Python 3.0 as yet. Anything that claims to work with
> >>WSGI and Python 3.0 is just a big guess as far as how WSGI for Python
> >>3.0 may work.
>
> >Perhaps you meant "library" instead of "specification"?
>
> He meant specification.
>
> Python 3.x is different enough from any Python 2.x release that PEP 333
> no longer completely makes sense. ?It needs to be modified to be
> applicable to Python 3.x.
>
> So, in the sense that there is no written down, generally agreed upon
> specification for what WSGI on Python 3.x means, there is no...
> specification.
>
> There is, however, apparently, a library. ;)

If you are talking about wsgiref then that was somewhat broken in
Python 3.0. In Python 3.1 it works for some definition of works. The
problem again being that since WSGI specification hasn't been updated
for Python 3.X, that how it works will likely not match what the
specification may eventually say. This will become more and more of a
problem if WSGI specification isn't updated. At the moment the
discussion is going around in circles, although, if I put my
optimistic face on, I would say it is a slow inward spiral. Not quite
a death spiral at least.

Graham


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 23:17:15 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:17:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python on the Web
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <5ee192da-c56a-4adf-9572-6e5b72bafead@y4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

Phil  wrote:
> My interest in Python 3.1 was actually to develop a framework. Again,
> I can feel the flames. :) I understand there are enough frameworks but
> I actually have no applications that I wish to develop.

No offense intended, but that's probably the worst approach to take.

Frameworks created for the sake of creating a framework, as opposed to
those written to meet a defined need, tend to be the worst examples of
masturbatory coding.



From phily05 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 23:25:31 2009
From: phily05 at gmail.com (Phil)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:25:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python on the Web
References: 
	
	
	<5ee192da-c56a-4adf-9572-6e5b72bafead@y4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 25, 11:17?pm, alex23  wrote:
> Phil  wrote:
> > My interest in Python 3.1 was actually to develop a framework. Again,
> > I can feel the flames. :) I understand there are enough frameworks but
> > I actually have no applications that I wish to develop.
>
> No offense intended, but that's probably the worst approach to take.
>
> Frameworks created for the sake of creating a framework, as opposed to
> those written to meet a defined need, tend to be the worst examples of
> masturbatory coding.

No offense taken. I understand your concern. I actually do have some
important design decisions I wish to meet. It has sort of been a
process of evaluating the things I love and hate most from existing
frameworks.


From metolone+gmane at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 23:40:46 2009
From: metolone+gmane at gmail.com (Mark Tolonen)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:40:46 -0700
Subject: Division and right shift in python
References: <3f74e020908251648k7b391a09g78b155507b2f23c4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 


"Cevahir Demirkiran"  wrote in message 
news:3f74e020908251648k7b391a09g78b155507b2f23c4 at mail.gmail.com...
> Hi,
>
> I would like to do a floor division by a power of 2 in python to make it
> faster than / (modular division in 2.x).
> However, it is slower.
> What is the reason of that?
> I checked them via:
>
> def f2(x,n):
>    t1 = clock()
>    r = x/pow(2,n)
>    t2 = clock()
>    print (t2-t1)
>    print r
>    t2 = clock()
>    r = x>>n
>    t3 = clock()
>    print (t3-t2)
>    print r
>

It's not slower on my system, but note the inconsistent results also:

>>> f2(1024,5)
3.47396033483e-06
32
2.19077375482e-06
32
>>> f2(1024,5)
4.84135603429e-06
32
3.08499440393e-06
32
>>> f2(1024,5)
4.6782844052e-06
32
3.77604384028e-06
32

Time it with timeit...

C:\>python -m timeit -n 10000000 -s x=1024 "x>>5"
10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.113 usec per loop

C:\>python -m timeit -n 10000000 -s x=1024 "x/pow(2,5)"
10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.468 usec per loop

Right-shift is over 4x faster.

-Mark




From graham.dumpleton at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 23:45:26 2009
From: graham.dumpleton at gmail.com (Graham Dumpleton)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:45:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python on the Web
References: 
	
	
	<5ee192da-c56a-4adf-9572-6e5b72bafead@y4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 26, 1:17?pm, alex23  wrote:
> Phil  wrote:
> > My interest in Python 3.1 was actually to develop a framework. Again,
> > I can feel the flames. :) I understand there are enough frameworks but
> > I actually have no applications that I wish to develop.
>
> No offense intended, but that's probably the worst approach to take.
>
> Frameworks created for the sake of creating a framework, as opposed to
> those written to meet a defined need, tend to be the worst examples of
> masturbatory coding.

I would in part actually disagree with that.

The problem with people creating frameworks to meet some defined need
is that they often implement only just enough of that framework to
meet that need and nothing more. End result is that the framework is
more often than not ever fleshed out enough to be of much use to
anyone else. Its existence though just pollutes the Internet with more
crap that one has to wade through.

Since there is already a plethora of good frameworks out there, if
writing an application, you are better of using one of the existing
frameworks. If interested in working at the framework level, you would
still be much better off looking at the existing frameworks, first
learn how they work and then consider contributing to them, rather
than implementing your own.

For some related reading, see:

  http://lucumr.pocoo.org/2009/7/30/nih-in-the-wsgi-world

As far as low level framework (or anti frameworks), suggest looking at
Werkzeug, Paste/Pylons and bobo.

I'll comment more on original message later.

Graham


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Tue Aug 25 23:51:30 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:51:30 -0700
Subject: Division and right shift in python
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3f74e020908251648k7b391a09g78b155507b2f23c4@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908252051w2c0ad860t46a7651b2ccabcf1@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 8:40 PM, Mark Tolonen wrote:
>
> "Cevahir Demirkiran"  wrote in message
> news:3f74e020908251648k7b391a09g78b155507b2f23c4 at mail.gmail.com...
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I would like to do a floor division by a power of 2 in python to make it
>> faster than / (modular division in 2.x).
>> However, it is slower.
>> What is the reason of that?
>> I checked them via:
>>
>> def f2(x,n):
>> ? t1 = clock()
>> ? r = x/pow(2,n)
>> ? t2 = clock()
>> ? print (t2-t1)
>> ? print r
>> ? t2 = clock()
>> ? r = x>>n
>> ? t3 = clock()
>> ? print (t3-t2)
>> ? print r
>>
>
> It's not slower on my system, but note the inconsistent results also:
>
>>>> f2(1024,5)
>
> 3.47396033483e-06
> 32
> 2.19077375482e-06
> 32
>>>>
>>>> f2(1024,5)
>
> 4.84135603429e-06
> 32
> 3.08499440393e-06
> 32
>>>>
>>>> f2(1024,5)
>
> 4.6782844052e-06
> 32
> 3.77604384028e-06
> 32
>
> Time it with timeit...
>
> C:\>python -m timeit -n 10000000 -s x=1024 "x>>5"
> 10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.113 usec per loop
>
> C:\>python -m timeit -n 10000000 -s x=1024 "x/pow(2,5)"
> 10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.468 usec per loop
>
> Right-shift is over 4x faster.

Adjusting for not having to lookup the name "pow", right shift is
still faster, but only slightly.

chris at morpheus ~ $ python -m timeit -n 10000000 -s x=1024 "x/pow(2,5)"
10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.318 usec per loop
chris at morpheus ~ $ python -m timeit -n 10000000 -s x=1024 "x/(2**5)"
10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.0973 usec per loop
chris at morpheus ~ $ python -m timeit -n 10000000 -s x=1024 "x>>5"
10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.0885 usec per loop

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From metolone+gmane at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 23:53:52 2009
From: metolone+gmane at gmail.com (Mark Tolonen)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:53:52 -0700
Subject: break unichr instead of fix ord?
References: <2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 


 wrote in message 
news:2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99 at v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
> In Python 2.5 on Windows I could do [*1]:
>
>  # Create a unicode character outside of the BMP.
>  >>> a = u'\U00010040'
>
>  # On Windows it is represented as a surogate pair.
>  >>> len(a)
>  2
>  >>> a[0],a[1]
>  (u'\ud800', u'\udc40')
>
>  # Create the same character with the unichr() function.
>  >>> a = unichr (65600)
>  >>> a[0],a[1]
>  (u'\ud800', u'\udc40')
>
>  # Although the unichr() function works fine, its
>  # inverse, ord(), doesn't.
>  >>> ord (a)
>  TypeError: ord() expected a character, but string of length 2 found
>
> On Python 2.6, unichr() was "fixed" (using the word
> loosely) so that it too now fails with characters outside
> the BMP.
>
>  >>> a = unichr (65600)
>  ValueError: unichr() arg not in range(0x10000) (narrow Python build)
>
> Why was this done rather than changing ord() to accept a
> surrogate pair?
>
> Does not this effectively make unichr() and ord() useless
> on Windows for all but a subset of unicode characters?

Switch to Python 3?

>>> x='\U00010040'
>>> import unicodedata
>>> unicodedata.name(x)
'LINEAR B SYLLABLE B025 A2'
>>> ord(x)
65600
>>> hex(ord(x))
'0x10040'
>>> unicodedata.name(chr(0x10040))
'LINEAR B SYLLABLE B025 A2'
>>> ord(chr(0x10040))
65600
>>> print(ascii(chr(0x10040)))
'\ud800\udc40'

-Mark




From christopher.nebergall at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 00:32:28 2009
From: christopher.nebergall at gmail.com (Christopher Nebergall)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 22:32:28 -0600
Subject: PyObject_CallFunction and writable memory
Message-ID: 

I'm working a patch to a hex editor (frhed) written in c++ so it can
load python scripts. Internally the c++ code has a unsigned char * of
possibly serveral hundred megs which I want to send into the python
code to modify.    What is the best way to send the unsigned char * as
writable memory into the python code, so I don't have to duplicate the
memory in order to return a modified copy?   I'm currently using
"PyObject_CallFunction(pFunc, "(s#)",p->lpbMemory, p->dwSize);" to
send an immutable string but I haven't seen what I need to set in the
format string which makes the data writable to python.    The solution
can be for either python 2.6 or 3.1.

Thanks,
Christopher


From graham.dumpleton at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 00:34:23 2009
From: graham.dumpleton at gmail.com (Graham Dumpleton)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 21:34:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python on the Web
References: 
Message-ID: <08ac740a-de74-4b5d-94af-35ab4dbe6ecc@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

A few additional comments on top of what others have said.

On Aug 26, 11:09?am, Phil  wrote:
> I've seen lots of web sites explaining everything, but for whatever
> reason I seem to not be picking something up.
> I am a graphical person, which is probably the reason I haven't found
> my answer.
> May somebody please confirm if my diagram accurately represents the
> stack, generally speaking.
>
> http://i26.tinypic.com/1fe82x.png
>
> Even if that is the case, I'm having a hard time understanding the
> differences. I guess wsgiref has absolutely nothing to do with FCGI/
> SCGI/CGI and simply receives and responds to HTTP requests following
> the WSGI specification?

Technically it receives and responses to request based on HTTP
specification, not WSGI specification. The underlying HTTP server
translates to and communicates with a Python web application using the
WSGI interface.

> Does it just spawn a new thread for each
> request? If so, then how is this any different than a production
> server with FCGI?

I would describe there as being four major ways that WSGI can be
hosted. These are:

1. Custom build HTTP/WSGI server written in Python. Production quality
examples are CherryPy WSGI server and Paste HTTP server. You shouldn't
use wsgiref for anything but very simple stuff.

2. Per request process execution by way of CGI and a CGI/WSGI adapter.
This could be under Apache or any other web server which supports CGI.

3. Module that embeds Python interpreter into a C based web server.
Example are mod_wsgi and mod_python for Apache. Note that mod_python
would infrequently be used to host WSGI and doesn't include its own
WSGI adapter. These days mod_wsgi for Apache would be used. Processes
in this would be persistent.

4. Module in a web server that allows one to communicate using a
custom protocol with a separate persistent web application process
hosting the web application through a WSGI interface. This convers
FASTCGI, SCGI and AJP. The mod_wsgi module for Apache has a hybrid
mode which work in a similar way but uses an  internal protocol.

Amongst these, there are many variations as far as number of process
and threads. For a bit of discussion about this in relation to
mod_wsgi read:

  http://code.google.com/p/modwsgi/wiki/ProcessesAndThreading

> The way I am understanding the 'Production' side of that picture is
> that the web server (eg. lighttpd) creates a single FCGI process.

FASTCGI isn't restricted to a single process, nor single threading.
Whether a particular implementation allows for the variations depends
on the implementation.

> The
> FCGI process is actually the entry point of the Framework/Application
> which sets up Flup's WSGIServer, being the interface between FCGI and
> the Framework/Application? What I mean is, it is just the code that
> the web server loads to start with, example...
> ? ? from flup.server.fcgi import WSGIServer
> ? ? from app import application
> ? ? WSGIServer(application).run()
> ... Then for each HTTP request, Flup's WSGIServer creates a new thread
> to handle the request?
>
> As I've read elsewhere, "These days, FastCGI is never used directly.

Even back in time, I don't think it was really ever used as a generic
interface that people worked with directly, there was always a more
usable layer built on top of it.

> Just like mod_python it is only used for the deployment of WSGI
> applications.

The mod_python module isn't used just for WSGI applications and is
probably rarely used for them. This is because mod_python has its own
interface for building web applications. It also has abilities to hook
into Apache request handling phases, meaning it can do more than host
a a content handler/web application.

> As far as I understand, the main (or only?) reasoning
> for this is because WSGI makes Python applications easier to deploy
> without having to worry about whether using FCGI/SCGI/CGI.

WSGI provides for portability, it isn't necessarily easier to use than
mod_python.

> What would be involved to run Python on the web using FCGI without
> WSGI? I can feel the flames already.

No, you really don't want to do that.

> This isn't the only reason I want
> to know, but one reason is that I want to use Python 3.1 and as I
> understand, this will have to wait for the WSGI 2.0 specification to
> ensure time isn't wasted.

Then look at mod_wsgi. It already has support for Python 3.X. Some
aspects of how it implements WSGI 1.0 may change, but will not be too
much and details are being sorted out in the back rooms as we speak.
See:

  http://code.google.com/p/modwsgi/wiki/ChangesInVersion0300

The other option is CherryPy WSGI server as that is close to a Python
3.X release as well, as I perceive it.

I wouldn't bother waiting for WSGI 2.0. That is more of a pipe dream.
There will be an updated WSGI 1.0 for Python 3.0.

Graham

> I apologize if the questions are ridiculous. I've just recently got
> into web programming and it seems that in order for me to use Python,
> I need a deep understanding of web servers, HTTP, FCGI, etc. I have
> more questions but they go more off topic, so I will save it for
> another thread, another day.
>
> I realize there is a large number of questions, so thanks for any help.



From nicola.larosa at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 01:54:59 2009
From: nicola.larosa at gmail.com (Nicola Larosa (tekNico))
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 22:54:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Code formatting question: conditional expression
References:  
	<421c8c9d-efb5-4e70-9321-51736b42bc9a@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <46c5c882-c38b-4439-a3cf-62783309cc08@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>

Nicola Larosa wrote:
> Here's my take:
>
> ? ? excessblk = Block(total - P.BASE, srccol,
> carry_button_suppress=True
> ? ? ? ? ) if total > P.BASE else None

Oops, it got shortened out: line longer than 72 chars, acceptable in
code, but not in email. I'll try again.

If the first line is too long, I would write it like this:

    excessblk = Block(total - P.BASE, srccol,
        carry_button_suppress=True) if total > P.BASE else None

If not, like this:

    excessblk = Block(total - P.BASE, srccol, cbs=True
        ) if total > P.BASE else None

If the condition or the last value were too long to make it all fit on
two lines, then it would probably best to revert to a plain "if"
statement.

--
Nicola Larosa - http://www.tekNico.net/


From http  Wed Aug 26 02:19:25 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 25 Aug 2009 23:19:25 -0700
Subject: your favorite debugging tool?
References: 
	
Message-ID: <7xpraj5c7m.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Dennis Lee Bieber  writes:
> 	My normal debug technique is wolf fencing* (eg; print statements)

That method was formerly completely automated on the web:

  http://www.st.cs.uni-saarland.de/askigor/faq.php

It was amazing.  Further info is here:

  http://www.st.cs.uni-saarland.de/dd/


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Wed Aug 26 02:44:50 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 08:44:50 +0200
Subject: Object Reference question
In-Reply-To: 
References: <2dcf41c3-6623-48d9-bb74-97f753088479@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <200908260844.50220.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Tuesday 25 August 2009 21:32:09 Aahz wrote:
> In article ,
>
> Hendrik van Rooyen   wrote:
> >On Friday 21 August 2009 08:07:18 josef wrote:
> >> My main focus of this post is: "How do I find and use object reference
> >> memory locations?"
> >>
> >>>> a = [1,2,3,4]
> >>>> id(a)
> >
> >8347088
>
> Of course, that doesn't actually allow you to do anything...

Well - if the OP is the sort of person who likes juggling with running 
chainsaws, then he can look up a thread I started about a thing I called 
a "can", which enabled you to get the object back from a string 
representation of the ID.  I did not want to open that "can" of worms again, 
and I thought that answering half a question was better than nothing...

*weg*  - Hendrik



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Aug 26 02:47:33 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 16:47:33 +1000
Subject: Code formatting question: conditional expression
References: 
	<421c8c9d-efb5-4e70-9321-51736b42bc9a@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<46c5c882-c38b-4439-a3cf-62783309cc08@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <877hwrf4vu.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

"Nicola Larosa (tekNico)"  writes:

> Nicola Larosa wrote:
> > Here's my take:
> >
> > ? ? excessblk = Block(total - P.BASE, srccol,
> > carry_button_suppress=True
> > ? ? ? ? ) if total > P.BASE else None
>
> Oops, it got shortened out: line longer than 72 chars, acceptable in
> code, but not in email. I'll try again.

Fine in email; just munged on your behalf (and probably without your
knowledge) by your email service provider. If you don't want that
happening, it's probably best to avoid Google Mail.

-- 
 \      ?I wish a robot would get elected president. That way, when he |
  `\    came to town, we could all take a shot at him and not feel too |
_o__)                                               bad.? ?Jack Handey |
Ben Finney


From eckhardt at satorlaser.com  Wed Aug 26 03:03:27 2009
From: eckhardt at satorlaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 09:03:27 +0200
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> class Color:
>     def __init__(self, r, g,b):
>           pass
>     BLACK = Color(0,0,0)
> 
> It make sens from a design point of view to put BLACK in the Color
> namespace. But I don't think it's possible with python.

class Color:
    ...

setattrib(Color, "BLACK", Color(0,0,0))

Uli

-- 
Sator Laser GmbH
Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Thorsten F?cking, Amtsgericht Hamburg HR B62 932



From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Aug 26 03:33:26 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 09:33:26 +0200
Subject: Context manager to temporarily change the variable of a register
	[aka write swap(a,b)]
In-Reply-To: <3da50b33-d79e-4579-9240-ef430ea7c697@m38g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <7c171ce3-56a7-482f-addd-c6c86441cba7@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<7c2c560f-d54c-492c-a847-e8ab079faea0@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<7fivlrF2lsrsuU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	<3da50b33-d79e-4579-9240-ef430ea7c697@m38g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7fk6q6F2jq5otU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Evan Driscoll schrieb:
> On Aug 25, 3:47 pm, Evan Driscoll  wrote:
>> So here is my simplified version that only works for globals:
> 
> So I think this works if (1) you only use changed_value in the same
> module as it's defined in (otherwise it picks up the globals from the
> module it's defined in, which is almost certainly not what you want),
> and (2) the value you want to change is just a simple variable and not
> either something like "os.path" or a builtin.
> 
> I have worked on this a bit more and have something that addresses
> these issues in at least the cases I've tested. I'm not going to post
> the code here, but it is up at
>   http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~driscoll/python/utils.py
> and there are a few unit tests at
>   http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~driscoll/python/utils_test.py
> 
> I solved issue (1) by reintroducing the use of inspect to walk back up
> the stack a couple frames, but I pulled out the f_globals member
> instead of f_locals.
> 
> Issue (2a) I fixed by splitting the variable name at periods and
> walking through successive dictionaries with each component. Issue
> (2b) I fixed by looking for a '__builtins__' entry if the name I'm
> looking up doesn't exist.
> 
> Right now it's sort of hackish... it probably doesn't respond
> particularly well if things go unexpectedly (e.g. a bad variable name
> is given) and I should probably verify that the value is unchanged
> during the with statement and throw an exception otherwise, but it
> probably works well enough for my purposes for now.
> 
> Comments are appreciated... a couple of the things in there it seems
> like there could very well be reimplementations of things that are
> already done.


I'd still won't use it :) instead, something like this might be 
something I'd use, if I need a local "rebound". Or, again, just use a 
different *name* alltogether.

foo = "bar"


@apply
def f(foo="baz"):
     ...



Other than that, for your original use-case, I have a context-manager I 
call "safe modifier" that

  - takes an object, key and value
  - stores the old value of the key on the object
  - sets the new value
  - on exit, restores the old value

This is for e.g. temporary config-changes in tests.

Diez


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Aug 26 03:34:31 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 09:34:31 +0200
Subject: PyObject_CallFunction and writable memory
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7fk6s7F2jq5otU2@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Christopher Nebergall schrieb:
> I'm working a patch to a hex editor (frhed) written in c++ so it can
> load python scripts. Internally the c++ code has a unsigned char * of
> possibly serveral hundred megs which I want to send into the python
> code to modify.    What is the best way to send the unsigned char * as
> writable memory into the python code, so I don't have to duplicate the
> memory in order to return a modified copy?   I'm currently using
> "PyObject_CallFunction(pFunc, "(s#)",p->lpbMemory, p->dwSize);" to
> send an immutable string but I haven't seen what I need to set in the
> format string which makes the data writable to python.    The solution
> can be for either python 2.6 or 3.1.

Take a look at the buffer-protocol.

Diez


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Aug 26 03:36:21 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 09:36:21 +0200
Subject: Python, qt, and lgpl
In-Reply-To: <1e7a9056-db73-4c4f-be8a-f1b65a91daec@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<1e7a9056-db73-4c4f-be8a-f1b65a91daec@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7fk6vlF2jq5otU3@mid.uni-berlin.de>

sturlamolden schrieb:
> On 25 Aug, 21:45, Terry Reedy  wrote:
> 
>> Will be good news if realized.
> 
> Good news for everyone except Riverbank.


And only if LGPL is something you can live with. Some projects require 
more liberal licenses.


Or is there a commercial license available, too?



Diez


From benjamin at python.org  Wed Aug 26 03:37:40 2009
From: benjamin at python.org (Benjamin Peterson)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 07:37:40 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: =?utf-8?b?UHlPYmplY3RfQ2FsbEZ1bmN0aW9u?= and writable memory
References: 
Message-ID: 

Christopher Nebergall  gmail.com> writes:

> 
> I'm currently using
> "PyObject_CallFunction(pFunc, "(s#)",p->lpbMemory, p->dwSize);" to
> send an immutable string but I haven't seen what I need to set in the
> format string which makes the data writable to python.    The solution
> can be for either python 2.6 or 3.1.

Have a look at the buffer interface: http://docs.python.org/3.1/c-api/buffer.html






From sdementen at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 03:50:17 2009
From: sdementen at gmail.com (seb)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 00:50:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: conditional for-statement
References:  
	
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: <0fce5130-3057-4393-94a2-320568ddc072@n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 25, 11:57?pm, Piet van Oostrum  wrote:
> You can also say:
> [x+y for x in range(3) for y in range(4) if x < y]
> If you want to write this as a loop you have to put the for's on
> separate lines separated by colons, so why not the if also? Or would you
> also like to have the for's on one line?

indeed, we could have the for's on one line too. In fact, if you have
a double loop without any body that is specific to the outer loop, you
can merge the two lines. Similarly, if you have a loop with a if (ie
filter) without any body having to be executed outside the if, having
them on the same line is also clearer.

|  for x in range(3):
|  for x in range(3) for y in range(4):
|    for y in range(4):               could be written as
|    body
|      body
and
|  for x in range(3):
|  for x in range(3) if cond(x):
|    if cond(x):                      could be written as
|    body
|      body

Such loops are in fact mentally just one loop over the cartesian
product (product set) of the two iterators or over the filter set of
the iterator respectively in these examples.

Moreover, for 'body' longer than a couple of lines, it is quite useful
to see immediately that there is no additional code that could be only
specific to the outher loop
ie, when writing all in one line, we can be sure that we do not have
this situation
|  for x in range(3):
|    for y in range(4):
|      long body
|      ...
|      long body
|    body related to outer loop

The naturalness of iteration in the various comprehensions and the
generator expressions can be smoothly extended to the standard code
iteration.

BTW, I noticed this inconsistency when, coming back to python after a
couple of weeks of no python programming, I started coding loops like

for obj in list_obj if obj.Size > 100:
  print(obj)

and got an error message about syntax.

> --
> Piet van Oostrum 
> URL:http://pietvanoostrum.com[PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
> Private email: p... at vanoostrum.org- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -



From vlastimil.brom at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 04:05:17 2009
From: vlastimil.brom at gmail.com (Vlastimil Brom)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 10:05:17 +0200
Subject: break unichr instead of fix ord?
In-Reply-To: <2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <9fdb569a0908260105s7858b648of081d439bb73e3ae@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/25  :
> In Python 2.5 on Windows I could do [*1]:
>
> ?# Create a unicode character outside of the BMP.
> ?>>> a = u'\U00010040'
>
> ?# On Windows it is represented as a surogate pair.
> ?>>> len(a)
> ?2
> ?>>> a[0],a[1]
> ?(u'\ud800', u'\udc40')
>
> ?# Create the same character with the unichr() function.
> ?>>> a = unichr (65600)
> ?>>> a[0],a[1]
> ?(u'\ud800', u'\udc40')
>
> ?# Although the unichr() function works fine, its
> ?# inverse, ord(), doesn't.
> ?>>> ord (a)
> ?TypeError: ord() expected a character, but string of length 2 found
>
> On Python 2.6, unichr() was "fixed" (using the word
> loosely) so that it too now fails with characters outside
> the BMP.
>
> ?>>> a = unichr (65600)
> ?ValueError: unichr() arg not in range(0x10000) (narrow Python build)
>
> Why was this done rather than changing ord() to accept a
> surrogate pair?
>
> Does not this effectively make unichr() and ord() useless
> on Windows for all but a subset of unicode characters?
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

Hi,
I'm not sure about the exact reasons for this behaviour on narrow
builds either (maybe the consistency of the input/ output data to
exactly one character?).

However, if I need these functions for higher unicode planes, the
following rather hackish replacements seem to work. I presume, there
might be smarter ways of dealing with this, but anyway...

hth,
   vbr

#### not (systematically) tested #####################################

import sys

def wide_ord(char):
    try:
        return ord(char)
    except TypeError:
        if len(char) == 2 and 0xD800 <= ord(char[0]) <= 0xDBFF and
0xDC00 <= ord(char[1]) <= 0xDFFF:
            return (ord(char[0]) - 0xD800) * 0x400 + (ord(char[1]) -
0xDC00) + 0x10000
        else:
            raise TypeError("invalid character input")


def wide_unichr(i):
    if i <= sys.maxunicode:
        return unichr(i)
    else:
        return ("\U"+str(hex(i))[2:].zfill(8)).decode("unicode-escape")


From lib_team at yahoo.fr  Wed Aug 26 04:08:48 2009
From: lib_team at yahoo.fr (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Pr=E9mon_Nom?=)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 08:08:48 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Getting the current PyCFunction while in a python function
Message-ID: <526667.17255.qm@web24301.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi

I would like to get the PyCFunction object which corresponds to the current function which is executed. I call PyFrameObject* frame = PyEval_GetFrame()

I try to parse frame->f_valuestack, but I don't know how to get the index of the function in the stack or event the size of the stack to be able to parse it (from end to begin and to stop on the first PyCFunctionObject).
There is a member call stack size (frame->f_valuestack->f_code->co_stacksize) but it doesn't correspond to the frame->f_valuestack size :-(
In fact i know that when i call "print(myFunctionPrintNumber(123))
There is PyCfunctionObject corresponding to myFunctionPrintNumber but i don't know how to acces it :/ because i don't know how to get/compute frame->f_valuestack size or to get/compute directly
 the index where the current executed function is.

Please help me!!!

Regards



      
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From simon at brunningonline.net  Wed Aug 26 04:14:33 2009
From: simon at brunningonline.net (Simon Brunning)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 09:14:33 +0100
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
In-Reply-To: <63bb7834-80ac-4894-9ef5-2598ecac72cc@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<20090825132439.d6cb18ca.feliphil@gmx.net> 
	
	<63bb7834-80ac-4894-9ef5-2598ecac72cc@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8c7f10c60908260114q45ac2ae0i91fba0ed56808d6a@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/26 geekworking :
> If you are planning a database driven app, you should first settle on
> a DB server. Any real enterprise DB system will put all of the
> business logic in the database server. The choice of a front end
> should be secondary.

The trend for some years now has been to get behavior out of the
database and into the application, where it belongs. True, we tend to
keep the presentation tier separate too, but we really don't "put all
of the business logic in the database server".

Going back to the OP's question, it would be worth taking a look at
what the resolver boys are up to: .

-- 
Cheers,
Simon B.


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Wed Aug 26 04:16:13 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 10:16:13 +0200
Subject: Python on the Web
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4a94ef42$0$27774$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Phil a ?crit :
> I've seen lots of web sites explaining everything, but for whatever
> reason I seem to not be picking something up.
> I am a graphical person, which is probably the reason I haven't found
> my answer.
> May somebody please confirm if my diagram accurately represents the
> stack, generally speaking.
> 
> http://i26.tinypic.com/1fe82x.png

Seems correct.

> Even if that is the case, I'm having a hard time understanding the
> differences. I guess wsgiref has absolutely nothing to do with FCGI/
> SCGI/CGI and simply receives and responds to HTTP requests following
> the WSGI specification?

Yeps.

> Does it just spawn a new thread for each
> request?

Not AFAICT.


> The way I am understanding the 'Production' side of that picture is
> that the web server (eg. lighttpd) creates a single FCGI process. The
> FCGI process is actually the entry point of the Framework/Application
> which sets up Flup's WSGIServer, being the interface between FCGI and
> the Framework/Application? What I mean is, it is just the code that
> the web server loads to start with, example...
>     from flup.server.fcgi import WSGIServer
>     from app import application
>     WSGIServer(application).run()
> ... Then for each HTTP request, Flup's WSGIServer creates a new thread
> to handle the request?

I didn't bother reading Flup's source code, but I suppose this might be 
the case.

> As I've read elsewhere, "These days, FastCGI is never used directly.
> Just like mod_python it is only used for the deployment of WSGI
> applications." As far as I understand, the main (or only?) reasoning
> for this is because WSGI makes Python applications easier to deploy
> without having to worry about whether using FCGI/SCGI/CGI.

Nor about which web server you use (Apache, lighthttpd, whatever).

> What would be involved to run Python on the web using FCGI without
> WSGI? I can feel the flames already. This isn't the only reason I want
> to know, but one reason is that I want to use Python 3.1 and as I
> understand, this will have to wait for the WSGI 2.0 specification to
> ensure time isn't wasted.

My humble opinion (based on years of experience in both Python and web 
programming) is that you're taking the wrong approach. I can only second 
  Robert Kern here: use an existing, well maintained wsgi-compliant 
framework like Django, Pylons etc, and wait for the framework to be 
ported to python 3.x. Any other solution will almost certainly end up 
needing a complete rewrite anytime soon.

> I apologize if the questions are ridiculous. I've just recently got
> into web programming and it seems that in order for me to use Python,
> I need a deep understanding of web servers, HTTP, FCGI, etc.

Programming for the web - whatever the language & techno - indeed 
require a deep (or at least correct) understanding of HTTP and web 
servers, yes. Even with the abstraction layers provided by frameworks, 
you still need to understand how the whole damn thing works, what's an 
HTTP resquest & response and quite a few other things as well.



From frank at chagford.com  Wed Aug 26 04:22:41 2009
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 10:22:41 +0200
Subject: Move dictionary from instance to class level
Message-ID: 

Hi all

I have a class that uses a dictionary to map message numbers to methods.

Here is a simple example -

    class MyClass(object):
        def __init__(self):
            self.method_dict = {}
            self.method_dict[0] = self.method_0
            self.method_dict[1] = self.method_1

        def on_message_received(self, msg):
            self.method_dict[msg]()

        def method_0(self):
            print 'in method_0'

        def method_1(self):
            print 'in method_1'

I have quite a few methods, so the dictionary is growing - up to 28 methods 
so far. To avoid
having to recreate the dictionary every time I create an instance of the 
class, I tried to move it
up to the class level. Unfortunately it does not work. This is what I 
tried -

    class MyClass(object):
        method_dict = {}
        method_dict[0] = method_0  # this gives an error
        method_dict[1] = method_1

        def on_message_received(self, msg):
            self.method_dict[msg]()

        def method_0(self):
            print 'in method_0'

        def method_1(self):
            print 'in method_1'

As written above, I get the following error -
    NameError: name 'method_0' is not defined

If I try self.method_0, I get 'self' is not defined.

If I try __class__.method_0, I get '__class__' is not defined.

If I try MyClass.method_0, I get 'MyClass' is not defined.

Is there any variation on this theme that will work?

#----------------------------------------------------

Ok, I found a variation that seems to work.

Is this the preferred way, or is there a better alternative?

    class MyClass(object):

        def on_message_received(self, msg):
            #self.method_dict[msg]()  # had to change this to get it to work
            self.method_dict[msg](self)

        def method_0(self):
            print 'in method_0'

        def method_1(self):
            print 'in method_1'

    MyClass.method_dict = {}
    MyClass.method_dict[0] = MyClass.method_0
    MyClass.method_dict[1] = MyClass.method_1

As you can see, I had to add 'self' to the method arguments when calling the 
method.

Any comments?

Thanks

Frank Millman




From tw55413 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 04:29:52 2009
From: tw55413 at gmail.com (erikj)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 01:29:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
References: 
Message-ID: <7f519c34-2d6e-4fff-9489-dae43c6b2df1@r42g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

You could have a look at Camelot, to see if it fits
your needs : http://www.conceptive.be/projects/camelot/

it was developed with cross platform business apps in
mind.  when developing Camelot, we tried to build it using
wxWidgets first (because of the licensing at that time),
but it turned out that developing with QT proved to be
much more straightforward.  QT is documented very well
and you seldom encounter 'strange' issues that cost hours
of time to pinpoint and fix.

the datagrid was developed to be able to handle millions
of database records without glitches and is flexible thanks
to QT's model-view-delegate framework.

we do print barcodes with this app (even directly to
zebra printers)

if you have questions regarding Camelot, please feel free
to post on our mailing list : http://groups.google.com/group/project-camelot

Regards,

Erik

On Aug 24, 2:08?pm, Gilles Ganault  wrote:
> Hello
>
> ? ? ? ? I was wondering if some people in this ng use Python and some GUI
> toolkit (PyWin32, wxWidgets, QT, etc.) to build professional
> applications, and if yes, what it's like, the pros and cons, etc.
>
> I'm especially concerned about the lack of controls, the lack of
> updates (lots of controls in wxWidgets are 1.0 deadware), and problems
> linked to how to update users' PC remotely when I build a new version
> using eg. Py2exe.
>
> I need controls for business apps like access to databases, good data
> grid, printing reports (with or without barcodes), etc.
>
> Thank you.



From pierre.gaillard at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 04:30:32 2009
From: pierre.gaillard at gmail.com (Pierre)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 01:30:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: quantiles of a student distribution
Message-ID: 


Hello...

Do you know how I can calculate the quantiles of a student
distribution in pyhton ?

Thanks


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Wed Aug 26 04:41:56 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 10:41:56 +0200
Subject: print() and unicode strings (python 3.1)
References: <4eda8137-7db9-4c39-a2c1-3477b071f7f6@x5g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<4a92b83b$0$27209$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	
	<4a92fb02$0$2582$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	
	
	<84154e6e-c425-4b71-89e3-7d2877a19418@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

>>>>> 7stud  (7) wrote:

>7> Thanks for the response.  My OS is mac osx 10.4.11.  I'm not really
>7> sure how to check my locale settings.  Here is some stuff I tried:

>7> $ echo $LANG

>7> $ echo $LC_ALL

>7> $ echo $LC_CTYPE

>7> $ locale
>7> LANG=
>7> LC_COLLATE="C"
>7> LC_CTYPE="C"
>7> LC_MESSAGES="C"
>7> LC_MONETARY="C"
>7> LC_NUMERIC="C"
>7> LC_TIME="C"
>7> LC_ALL="C"

IIRC, Mac OS X 10.4 does not set LANG or LC_* automatically. In 10.5
Terminal has an option in the preferences to set LANG according to the
encoding chosen (and presumably the language of the user).

-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Wed Aug 26 04:54:05 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 01:54:05 -0700
Subject: Move dictionary from instance to class level
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908260154y2f4f6852ga3d6a3c41bd768de@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 1:22 AM, Frank Millman wrote:
> Hi all
>
> I have a class that uses a dictionary to map message numbers to methods.
>
> Here is a simple example -
>
> ? ?class MyClass(object):
> ? ? ? ?def __init__(self):
> ? ? ? ? ? ?self.method_dict = {}
> ? ? ? ? ? ?self.method_dict[0] = self.method_0
> ? ? ? ? ? ?self.method_dict[1] = self.method_1
>
> ? ? ? ?def on_message_received(self, msg):
> ? ? ? ? ? ?self.method_dict[msg]()
>
> ? ? ? ?def method_0(self):
> ? ? ? ? ? ?print 'in method_0'
>
> ? ? ? ?def method_1(self):
> ? ? ? ? ? ?print 'in method_1'
>
> I have quite a few methods, so the dictionary is growing - up to 28 methods
> so far. To avoid
> having to recreate the dictionary every time I create an instance of the
> class, I tried to move it
> up to the class level. Unfortunately it does not work. This is what I
> tried -
>
> ? ?class MyClass(object):
> ? ? ? ?method_dict = {}
> ? ? ? ?method_dict[0] = method_0 ?# this gives an error
> ? ? ? ?method_dict[1] = method_1
>
> ? ? ? ?def on_message_received(self, msg):
> ? ? ? ? ? ?self.method_dict[msg]()
>
> ? ? ? ?def method_0(self):
> ? ? ? ? ? ?print 'in method_0'
>
> ? ? ? ?def method_1(self):
> ? ? ? ? ? ?print 'in method_1'
>
> As written above, I get the following error -
> ? ?NameError: name 'method_0' is not defined
>
> If I try self.method_0, I get 'self' is not defined.

Right, because you're in the *class* body; there's no "current
instance" to be "self"; in fact, there's not even any class for there
to be instances of yet.

> If I try __class__.method_0, I get '__class__' is not defined.

Right, because the class isn't created until its body has finished executing

> If I try MyClass.method_0, I get 'MyClass' is not defined.

See previous note. The class name can't be bound to anything until the
class itself has been created.

> Is there any variation on this theme that will work?
>
> #----------------------------------------------------
>
> Ok, I found a variation that seems to work.
>
> Is this the preferred way, or is there a better alternative?

A

class MyClass(object):
    def on_message_received(self, msg):
        self.method_dict[msg](self)

    def method_0(self):
        print 'in method_0'

    def method_1(self):
        print 'in method_1'
        method_dict

    method_dict = {0: method_0, 1: method_1}
    #note this comes *after* the methods in question have been defined

Is there some reason you aren't using a list instead of a dict?
e.g. method_dict = [method_0, method_1, method_2, etc]

For that matter, why are you associating methods with integers in the
first place?

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From mriedel at inova-semiconductors.de  Wed Aug 26 04:56:28 2009
From: mriedel at inova-semiconductors.de (Michael Riedel)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 10:56:28 +0200
Subject: Q: multiprocessing.Queue size limitations or bug...
Message-ID: <4A94F8BC.8050304@inova-semiconductors.de>

Sorry for being not more specific but I'm not absolutely certain whether
I encountered a bug or did anything wrong:

The (stupid) code below results in a stall forever or not at 'p0.join()'
depending on the value of TROUBLE_MAKER.

Any help, thoughts, comments?

Thank you for your time.

Michael

# ----------------------------------------------------------------------

from multiprocessing import Process, Queue

# bit vector size
BVS=8

#
TROUBLE_MAKER=12  # for greater values p0.join() is never satisfied...

def evaluate(q, id, start=0, stop=2**BVS):

    cmin = {0: []}

    for mask0 in range(start, stop):
        for mask1 in range(0, 2**BVS):
            for mask2 in range(mask1, TROUBLE_MAKER):
                cmin[0].append((mask0, mask1, mask2))

    print 'process %d finished (dict layout: %d/%d)...' % (id,
len(cmin), len(cmin[0]))
    q.put(cmin.copy())
    q.close()


if __name__ == '__main__':

    q0 = Queue()
    q1 = Queue()
    q2 = Queue()
    q3 = Queue()

    part = 2**BVS/4
    p0 = Process(target=evaluate, args=(q0, 0, 0*part, 1*part),
name='worker_0')
    p1 = Process(target=evaluate, args=(q1, 1, 1*part, 2*part),
name='worker_1')
    p2 = Process(target=evaluate, args=(q2, 2, 2*part, 3*part),
name='worker_2')
    p3 = Process(target=evaluate, args=(q3, 3, 3*part, 4*part),
name='worker_3')
    p0.start()
    print 'process 0 started...'
    p1.start()
    print 'process 1 started...'
    p2.start()
    print 'process 2 started...'
    p3.start()
    print 'process 3 started...'
    # main process stalls at p0.join() for bigger TROUBLE_MAKER
    p0.join()
    p1.join()
    p2.join()
    p3.join()
    res0 = q0.get()
    res1 = q1.get()
    res2 = q2.get()
    res3 = q3.get()
    print 'results fetched...'

# ----------------------------------------------------------------------

-- 



From eckhardt at satorlaser.com  Wed Aug 26 05:04:43 2009
From: eckhardt at satorlaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 11:04:43 +0200
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>> class Color:
>>     def __init__(self, r, g,b):
>>           pass
>>     BLACK = Color(0,0,0)
>> 
>> It make sens from a design point of view to put BLACK in the Color
>> namespace. But I don't think it's possible with python.
> 
> class Color:
>     ...
> 
> setattrib(Color, "BLACK", Color(0,0,0))

Apart from it being "setattr" and not "setattrib", a simple

  Color.BLACK = Color(0,0,0)

should have done the job here. However, what I had in mind was this:

  class Color:
      _colors = [ ("BLACK", (0,0,0)),
                  ("WHITE", (1,1,1))
                ]

      def __str__(self):
          # try to locate a name
          for name, rgb in Color._colors:
              if self.rgb==rgb:
                  return name
          # no name found, just format as a triplet
          return "(%s, %s, %s)" % self.rgb

  # add symbolic names
  for name, rgb in Color._colors:
      setattr(Colors, name, Color(rgb))


...which I got as suggestion on my question how to model C enumeration
lookalikes.

Uli

-- 
Sator Laser GmbH
Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Thorsten F?cking, Amtsgericht Hamburg HR B62 932



From frank at chagford.com  Wed Aug 26 05:21:03 2009
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 11:21:03 +0200
Subject: Move dictionary from instance to class level
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 26, 10:54 am, Chris Rebert  wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 1:22 AM, Frank Millman wrote:
>
> A
>
> class MyClass(object):
>     def on_message_received(self, msg):
>         self.method_dict[msg](self)
>
>     def method_0(self):
>         print 'in method_0'
>
>     def method_1(self):
>         print 'in method_1'
>         method_dict
>
>     method_dict = {0: method_0, 1: method_1}
>     #note this comes *after* the methods in question have been defined
>

Thanks, Chris. This is much better.

> Is there some reason you aren't using a list instead of a dict?
> e.g. method_dict = [method_0, method_1, method_2, etc]
>
> For that matter, why are you associating methods with integers in the
> first place?
>

I actually use constants to define my messages, like this -

(MESSAGE_ONE
,MESSAGE_TWO
,MESSAGE_THREE
) = xrange(3)

I can then refer to the messages by their description, but internally it 
uses integers.

Frank




From frank at chagford.com  Wed Aug 26 05:22:21 2009
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 11:22:21 +0200
Subject: Move dictionary from instance to class level
References: 
	
Message-ID: <6ZKdnagdF6mZnwjXnZ2dnUVZ8jKdnZ2d@saix.net>

On Aug 26, 10:54 am, Chris Rebert  wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 1:22 AM, Frank Millman wrote:
>
> A
>
> class MyClass(object):
>     def on_message_received(self, msg):
>         self.method_dict[msg](self)
>
>     def method_0(self):
>         print 'in method_0'
>
>     def method_1(self):
>         print 'in method_1'
>         method_dict
>
>     method_dict = {0: method_0, 1: method_1}
>     #note this comes *after* the methods in question have been defined
>

Thanks, Chris. This is much better.

> Is there some reason you aren't using a list instead of a dict?
> e.g. method_dict = [method_0, method_1, method_2, etc]
>
> For that matter, why are you associating methods with integers in the
> first place?
>

I actually use constants to define my messages, like this -

(MESSAGE_ONE
,MESSAGE_TWO
,MESSAGE_THREE
) = xrange(3)

I can then refer to the messages by their description, but internally it
uses integers.

Frank





From frank at chagford.com  Wed Aug 26 05:22:21 2009
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 11:22:21 +0200
Subject: Move dictionary from instance to class level
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 26, 10:54 am, Chris Rebert  wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 1:22 AM, Frank Millman wrote:
>
> A
>
> class MyClass(object):
>     def on_message_received(self, msg):
>         self.method_dict[msg](self)
>
>     def method_0(self):
>         print 'in method_0'
>
>     def method_1(self):
>         print 'in method_1'
>         method_dict
>
>     method_dict = {0: method_0, 1: method_1}
>     #note this comes *after* the methods in question have been defined
>

Thanks, Chris. This is much better.

> Is there some reason you aren't using a list instead of a dict?
> e.g. method_dict = [method_0, method_1, method_2, etc]
>
> For that matter, why are you associating methods with integers in the
> first place?
>

I actually use constants to define my messages, like this -

(MESSAGE_ONE
,MESSAGE_TWO
,MESSAGE_THREE
) = xrange(3)

I can then refer to the messages by their description, but internally it
uses integers.

Frank





From frank at chagford.com  Wed Aug 26 05:48:38 2009
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 11:48:38 +0200
Subject: Move dictionary from instance to class level
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 


"Frank Millman"  wrote:

Apologies for the triple-post.

I use google-groups for reading c.l.py, but I know that some people reject 
messages from there due to the volume of spam, so on the odd occasion when I 
want to send something I fire up Outlook Express and send it from there. It 
seems to be misbehaving today.

Sorry about that.

Frank




From somebody at somewhere.com  Wed Aug 26 05:52:09 2009
From: somebody at somewhere.com (Stephen Fairchild)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 10:52:09 +0100
Subject: Help with arrays
References: 	
	
	
Message-ID: 

Dave Angel wrote:

> With this change the best solution changes from a random shuffle to a
> binary search.

Which is not what the OP asked for. Anyway, I think whatever solution is
chosen it's probably best written as a generator. The new pushback syntax
may prove useful.
-- 
Stephen Fairchild


From dksreddy at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 06:05:41 2009
From: dksreddy at gmail.com (Sandy)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 03:05:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: all possible matchings of elements of two lists
Message-ID: 

Hi all,
I basically want all possible matchings of elements from two lists,
Ex: [1,2] [a,b,c]

Required:
   [ [(1,a),(2,b)]
     [(1,b),(2,c)]
     [(1,c),(2,b)]
     [(1,b),(2,a)]
     [(1,c),(2,a)]
     [(1,a),(2,c)]
   ]

My thought is to get all possible permutations of two lists given and
select any combination and use zip to get the tuples. Repeat this for
all possible combinations.

Any other ideas?
Sandy




From no.email at please.post  Wed Aug 26 06:08:38 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 10:08:38 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

In  John Posner  writes:
>Stephen Hansen said:
>> This sounds like a fundamental confusion -- a namespace is not 
>> equivalent to a scope, really, I think.
>> ...


Hmm.  I can't find Stephen Hansen's original post anywhere.  Where
did you come across it?

Is there an *official* write-up where these issues are discussed?
To put it differently, where exactly in the Python docs would
someone learning Python go to answer my original query?

TIA!

kynn



From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 06:16:32 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 03:16:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python, qt, and lgpl
References:  
	<1e7a9056-db73-4c4f-be8a-f1b65a91daec@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 25, 5:04?pm, sturlamolden  wrote:
> On 25 Aug, 21:45, Terry Reedy  wrote:
>
> > Will be good news if realized.
>
> Good news for everyone except Riverbank.

Oh well, Riverbank could have played ball but they didn't, so I guess
I don't care if it's bad news for them.


Carl Banks


From manish.paradkar at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 06:28:01 2009
From: manish.paradkar at gmail.com (manish)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 18:28:01 +0800
Subject: Python Processor
Message-ID: <7670c8130908260328l6982ef4etad802a755b85a44f@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I am also wondering about how to implement a soft core reconfigurable
processor in a FPGA
which would directly execute the compiled python bytecode.

I am trying to understand the bytecode format but apart from
http://docs.python.org/library/dis.html
there is hardly any documentation on the python bytecodes.

Before going through the one of the existing VM implementations, i want to
know if there is there any informaition
available which elaborates on the structure of the bytecodes. Like details
regarding co_names, co_cellvars,
co_freevars, the concept of frames, global, local, objects, functions etc
with respect to the bytecode.


Thanks
Manish
-------------- next part --------------
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From robin at reportlab.com  Wed Aug 26 06:30:22 2009
From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 11:30:22 +0100
Subject: ubuntu dist-packages
Message-ID: <4A950EBE.1090707@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>

I was surprised a couple of days ago when trying to assist a colleage with his 
python setup on a ubuntu 9.04 system.

We built our c-extensions and manually copied them into place, but site-packages 
wasn't there. It seems that ubuntu now wants stuff to go into 
lib/python2.6/dist-packages.

What is the relation between dist-packages/site-packages if any? Is this just a 
name change or is there some other problem being addressed?

For developers is it best just to create one's own private installations from 
the original tarballs?
-- 
Robin Becker



From dksreddy at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 06:32:35 2009
From: dksreddy at gmail.com (dksr)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 03:32:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: all possible matchings of elements of two lists
References: 
Message-ID: <2eb06442-7369-4c9f-83ad-b8f9d3d08c07@d4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

Ok this is how I do it:
l1 = [1,2]
l2= ['a','b','c']
res = []
l2 = permute(l2)
for i in l2:
    lis = [l1,l2]
    res.append(zip(*lis))
    # or use map depending on what u want
    res.append(map(None,*lis))

print res

On Aug 26, 11:05?am, Sandy  wrote:
> Hi all,
> I basically want all possible matchings of elements from two lists,
> Ex: [1,2] [a,b,c]
>
> Required:
> ? ?[ [(1,a),(2,b)]
> ? ? ?[(1,b),(2,c)]
> ? ? ?[(1,c),(2,b)]
> ? ? ?[(1,b),(2,a)]
> ? ? ?[(1,c),(2,a)]
> ? ? ?[(1,a),(2,c)]
> ? ?]
>
> My thought is to get all possible permutations of two lists given and
> select any combination and use zip to get the tuples. Repeat this for
> all possible combinations.
>
> Any other ideas?
> Sandy



From ryniek90 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 06:44:07 2009
From: ryniek90 at gmail.com (Ryniek90)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 12:44:07 +0200
Subject: TypeError: _getfullpathname() argument 1 must be (buffer overflow),
	not str in windows xp, while making tarfile
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A9511F7.7030909@gmail.com>


> [snip]
>>>> Here's my script code:
>>>> *http://paste.ubuntu.com/259310/
>>>>
>>>> *Shouldn't that bug be patched already  :-?
>>> Are you giving it the contents of the file when it's actually expecting
>>> the filename?
>>>
>>
>> Of course the content of the file:
> [snip]
>> See? *backup_obj.add(read_obj.read())*
>> In previous pasted Traceback you can see 
>> *backup_obj.add(read_bin_obj)* - read_obj_bin was a reference to the 
>> *read_obj.read()* .
>>
> The documentation lists the methods "add" and "addfile". Pick one and
> provide the values it's expecting. For example, if you choose "add" then
> provide the filename, not the contents of the file.
>
>> Do only I have this problem or Python programming under Windows is 
>> nightmare?
>
> It's only a nightmare if you don't follow the documentation. :-)
>

Hahah right. My fault. Must remember to read documentation so many times 
until I find the solution.  Thanks, now works fine.  :-)


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Aug 26 06:46:13 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 12:46:13 +0200
Subject: ubuntu dist-packages
References: 
Message-ID: <7fki3lF2kirnkU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Robin Becker wrote:

> I was surprised a couple of days ago when trying to assist a colleage with
> his python setup on a ubuntu 9.04 system.
> 
> We built our c-extensions and manually copied them into place, but
> site-packages wasn't there. It seems that ubuntu now wants stuff to go
> into lib/python2.6/dist-packages.
> 
> What is the relation between dist-packages/site-packages if any? Is this
> just a name change or is there some other problem being addressed?
> 
> For developers is it best just to create one's own private installations
> from the original tarballs?

I don't know much about the atrocities distributions commit to
python-installations (ripping out distutils "because it's a developer-only
thing", trying to save a few bytes here and there by unifying
install-locations between interpreter versions and whatnot), but I think
the main problem is that you don't use distutils - or setuptools (that gets
often a bad rap even if for most cases it works flawless)

If you'd use that to build & install your extension, it would figure out
where to place the resulting package (or egg) by itself. 

Diez


From dickinsm at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 06:52:22 2009
From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 03:52:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: all possible matchings of elements of two lists
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 26, 11:05?am, Sandy  wrote:
> Hi all,
> I basically want all possible matchings of elements from two lists,
> Ex: [1,2] [a,b,c]
>
> Required:
> ? ?[ [(1,a),(2,b)]
> ? ? ?[(1,b),(2,c)]
> ? ? ?[(1,c),(2,b)]
> ? ? ?[(1,b),(2,a)]
> ? ? ?[(1,c),(2,a)]
> ? ? ?[(1,a),(2,c)]
> ? ?]

If you're using Python 2.6 (or 3.1), you might find the itertools
module helpful:

Python 2.6.2 (r262:71600, Aug 26 2009, 09:40:44)
[GCC 4.2.1 (SUSE Linux)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import itertools
>>> for p in itertools.permutations('abc', 2): print zip([1,2], p)
...
[(1, 'a'), (2, 'b')]
[(1, 'a'), (2, 'c')]
[(1, 'b'), (2, 'a')]
[(1, 'b'), (2, 'c')]
[(1, 'c'), (2, 'a')]
[(1, 'c'), (2, 'b')]



--
Mark


From no.email at please.post  Wed Aug 26 06:57:32 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 10:57:32 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: 

In <7figv3F2m3p0dU1 at mid.uni-berlin.de> "Diez B. Roggisch"  writes:

>Classes are not scopes.

This looks to me like a major wart, on two counts.

First, one of the goals of OO is encapsulation, not only at the
level of instances, but also at the level of classes.  Your comment
suggests that Python does not fully support class-level encapsulation.

Second, my example shows that Python puts some peculiar restrictions
on recursion.  Recursion!  One of the central concepts in the theory
of functions!  This is shown most clearly by the following elaboration
of my original example:

class Demo(object):
    def fact_rec(n):
        if n < 2:
            return 1
        else:
            return n * fact_rec(n - 1)

    def fact_iter(n):
        ret = 1
        for i in range(1, n + 1):
            ret *= i
        return ret

    classvar1 = fact_iter(5)
    classvar2 = fact_rec(5)

This code won't compile as shown, but it does compile if the last
line (the call to the recursive fact_rec) is commented out.  There
is no justification for discriminating against recursive functions
in this context.  Recursive functions should be OK wherever functions
are OK.  I can't think of any other language that allows recursion
but not anywhere.

Is there any good reason (from the point of view of Python's overall
design) for not fixing this?

kynn



From chris0wj at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 07:25:13 2009
From: chris0wj at gmail.com (Chris)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 04:25:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: multiprocessing managers and socket connection.
References: <722664f1-81af-45da-ae40-070bca8f3ee0@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<0af6687a-e36d-47c3-af5e-7e66eacbb3ce@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7d8f3f17-3cd7-4eb1-b049-2990d638cc46@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 25, 9:11?pm, Terry  wrote:
> On Aug 25, 10:14?pm, Chris  wrote:
>
>
>
> > I've been using multiprocessing managers and I really like the
> > functionality.
>
> > I have a question about reconnecting to a manager. I have a situation
> > where I start on one machine (A) a manager that is listening and then
> > on another machine (B) connects to that manager and uses its proxy
> > object to call functions on the manager's computer; this all works as
> > expected. But, if the manager from A shuts down, B's application won't
> > notice because in the MP code it ignores socket error
> > errno.ECONNREFUSED. If A becomes available again or is restarted, B
> > doesn't automatically reconnect either and continue its operation.
> > It's function is basically stopped.
>
> > Here is the code from connection.py:
> > while 1:
> > ? ? ? ? try:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? s.connect(address)
> > ? ? ? ? except socket.error, e:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? if e.args[0] != errno.ECONNREFUSED: # connection refused
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? debug('failed to connect to address %s', address)
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? raise
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? time.sleep(0.01)
> > ? ? ? ? else:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? break
>
> > How can I have B automatically reconnect to A and continue its work
> > once A is available again?
>
> I think you need to retry repeatedly until successfully connected.
>
> br, Terry

I'm having issue after once connected. If the server goes down during
a long-running connection. I would want to be notified so I could try
to reconnect. I'm doing more experimenting now and will try to post an
example.


From tibor.beck at hotmail.com  Wed Aug 26 07:44:25 2009
From: tibor.beck at hotmail.com (gentlestone)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 04:44:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Usefull python tutorial
Message-ID: <0bd7592d-d705-4938-b13d-61157d7fbc7a@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

Can somebody give me an advise where I can found a really good online
tutorial? All I found are useless. For example no tutorial I found
explains this piece of code:

    someList = [element for element in otherList if element is not
None]

or this example:

    a = a or []

There are only stupid elementary examples in the tutorials I found.


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 07:52:43 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 04:52:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> 
	
Message-ID: <16b72319-8023-471c-ba40-8025aa6d462e@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 26, 3:57?am, kj  wrote:
> In <7figv3F2m3p0... at mid.uni-berlin.de> "Diez B. Roggisch"  writes:
>
> >Classes are not scopes.
>
> This looks to me like a major wart, on two counts.

Class statements *are* scopes, they are just not accessible from
scopes nested within them.


> First, one of the goals of OO is encapsulation, not only at the
> level of instances, but also at the level of classes. ?Your comment
> suggests that Python does not fully support class-level encapsulation.

I can't answer this, I don't even know what you are talking about.
The OO notion of encapsulation that I'm familar means that an object
can seal off access to private data.  This has nothing to do with
class statement scoping.


> Second, my example shows that Python puts some peculiar restrictions
> on recursion. ?Recursion! ?One of the central concepts in the theory
> of functions! ?This is shown most clearly by the following elaboration
> of my original example:
>
> class Demo(object):
> ? ? def fact_rec(n):
> ? ? ? ? if n < 2:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? return 1
> ? ? ? ? else:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? return n * fact_rec(n - 1)
>
> ? ? def fact_iter(n):
> ? ? ? ? ret = 1
> ? ? ? ? for i in range(1, n + 1):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ret *= i
> ? ? ? ? return ret
>
> ? ? classvar1 = fact_iter(5)
> ? ? classvar2 = fact_rec(5)
>
> This code won't compile as shown, but it does compile if the last
> line (the call to the recursive fact_rec) is commented out. ?There
> is no justification for discriminating against recursive functions
> in this context. ?Recursive functions should be OK wherever functions
> are OK. ?I can't think of any other language that allows recursion
> but not anywhere.

Inside class statements are not the place for this kind of thing.
Define functions like fact_rec outside the class statement.


> Is there any good reason (from the point of view of Python's overall
> design) for not fixing this?

I suspect that no reason, however profound, would satisfy you.
Therefore I will merely answer your question without fanfare, and you
can take it as you will.

1. One of the key aspects of Python's design is that attributes must
be accessed explicitly with dot notation.  Accessing class scopes from
nested functions would (seemingly) allow access to class attributes
without the dotted notation.  Therefore it is not allowed.

2. This is considered more important that your ability to define
recursive functions in the class statement.


Carl Banks


From cevomed at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 07:53:01 2009
From: cevomed at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-9?Q?Cevahir_Demirk=FDran?=)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 13:53:01 +0200
Subject: Division and right shift in python
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3f74e020908251648k7b391a09g78b155507b2f23c4@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <3f74e020908260453p181d8134va4047019b60831b1@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the answer.
Run it with a big number:
f2(9230821908403878236537264867326482638462035732098490238409328947638257462745672354627356427356742563256745362772537532756732673275732,9)

I had this result:

8.1015883211e-06
1.06158743591e-05
512

2009/8/26 Mark Tolonen 
>

>
> "Cevahir Demirkiran"  wrote in message
> news:3f74e020908251648k7b391a09g78b155507b2f23c4 at mail.gmail.com...
>
>  Hi,
>>
>> I would like to do a floor division by a power of 2 in python to make it
>> faster than / (modular division in 2.x).
>> However, it is slower.
>> What is the reason of that?
>> I checked them via:
>>
>> def f2(x,n):
>>   t1 = clock()
>>   r = x/pow(2,n)
>>   t2 = clock()
>>   print (t2-t1)
>>   print r
>>   t2 = clock()
>>   r = x>>n
>>   t3 = clock()
>>   print (t3-t2)
>>   print r
>>
>>
> It's not slower on my system, but note the inconsistent results also:
>
>  f2(1024,5)
>>>>
>>> 3.47396033483e-06
> 32
> 2.19077375482e-06
> 32
>
>> f2(1024,5)
>>>>
>>> 4.84135603429e-06
> 32
> 3.08499440393e-06
> 32
>
>> f2(1024,5)
>>>>
>>> 4.6782844052e-06
> 32
> 3.77604384028e-06
> 32
>
> Time it with timeit...
>
> C:\>python -m timeit -n 10000000 -s x=1024 "x>>5"
> 10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.113 usec per loop
>
> C:\>python -m timeit -n 10000000 -s x=1024 "x/pow(2,5)"
> 10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.468 usec per loop
>
> Right-shift is over 4x faster.
>
> -Mark
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
Cevahir Demirkiran
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From clp2 at rebertia.com  Wed Aug 26 08:11:25 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 05:11:25 -0700
Subject: Usefull python tutorial
In-Reply-To: <0bd7592d-d705-4938-b13d-61157d7fbc7a@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <0bd7592d-d705-4938-b13d-61157d7fbc7a@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908260511u7445f434x6fc8481c2bb5c305@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 4:44 AM, gentlestone wrote:
> Can somebody give me an advise where I can found a really good online
> tutorial? All I found are useless. For example no tutorial I found
> explains this piece of code:
>
> ? ?someList = [element for element in otherList if element is not
> None]

See http://docs.python.org/tutorial/datastructures.html#list-comprehensions

> or this example:
>
> ? ?a = a or []

That's a bit more obscure, and I'm not entirely surprised it's not in
a tutorial:
http://docs.python.org/reference/expressions.html#boolean-operations


You might want to try the official tutorial (unless it's the one
you're complaining about):
http://docs.python.org/tutorial/index.html

I've also heard good things about Dive Into Python:
http://diveintopython.org/

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From cevomed at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 08:17:48 2009
From: cevomed at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-9?Q?Cevahir_Demirk=FDran?=)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 14:17:48 +0200
Subject: Division and right shift in python
In-Reply-To: <3f74e020908260453p181d8134va4047019b60831b1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3f74e020908251648k7b391a09g78b155507b2f23c4@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<3f74e020908260453p181d8134va4047019b60831b1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3f74e020908260517y77d6824esa9813b64031f5bf8@mail.gmail.com>

The previous one was slower but now it is faster.
How can I make this more consistent?
Why cannot I control it?

Where can I find  the algorithms implemented under for example pow, /, %,
etc.?
I could not see them in python documentation?

f2(281367918279371279712863756486284619792197836426862028028824908239084023984967328564836783686836834628136791827937127971286375648628461979219783642686202802882490823908402398496732856483678368683683462813679182793712797128637564862846197921978364268620280288249082390840239849673285648367836868368346,9)

8.3809534317e-06
6.70476276809e-06
512

Thanks in advance,


26 A?ustos 2009 13:53 tarihinde Cevahir Demirk?ran yazd?:

> Thanks for the answer.
> Run it with a big number:
>
> f2(9230821908403878236537264867326482638462035732098490238409328947638257462745672354627356427356742563256745362772537532756732673275732,9)
>
> I had this result:
>
> 8.1015883211e-06
> 1.06158743591e-05
> 512
>
> 2009/8/26 Mark Tolonen 
> >
>
>
>> "Cevahir Demirkiran"  wrote in message
>> news:3f74e020908251648k7b391a09g78b155507b2f23c4 at mail.gmail.com...
>>
>>  Hi,
>>>
>>> I would like to do a floor division by a power of 2 in python to make it
>>> faster than / (modular division in 2.x).
>>> However, it is slower.
>>> What is the reason of that?
>>> I checked them via:
>>>
>>> def f2(x,n):
>>>   t1 = clock()
>>>   r = x/pow(2,n)
>>>   t2 = clock()
>>>   print (t2-t1)
>>>   print r
>>>   t2 = clock()
>>>   r = x>>n
>>>   t3 = clock()
>>>   print (t3-t2)
>>>   print r
>>>
>>>
>> It's not slower on my system, but note the inconsistent results also:
>>
>>  f2(1024,5)
>>>>>
>>>> 3.47396033483e-06
>> 32
>> 2.19077375482e-06
>> 32
>>
>>>  f2(1024,5)
>>>>>
>>>> 4.84135603429e-06
>> 32
>> 3.08499440393e-06
>> 32
>>
>>>  f2(1024,5)
>>>>>
>>>> 4.6782844052e-06
>> 32
>> 3.77604384028e-06
>> 32
>>
>> Time it with timeit...
>>
>> C:\>python -m timeit -n 10000000 -s x=1024 "x>>5"
>> 10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.113 usec per loop
>>
>> C:\>python -m timeit -n 10000000 -s x=1024 "x/pow(2,5)"
>> 10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.468 usec per loop
>>
>> Right-shift is over 4x faster.
>>
>> -Mark
>>
>>
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Cevahir Demirkiran
>



-- 
Cevahir Demirkiran
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From simon at brunningonline.net  Wed Aug 26 08:17:57 2009
From: simon at brunningonline.net (Simon Brunning)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 13:17:57 +0100
Subject: Usefull python tutorial
In-Reply-To: <0bd7592d-d705-4938-b13d-61157d7fbc7a@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <0bd7592d-d705-4938-b13d-61157d7fbc7a@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8c7f10c60908260517q6819c17qd5bd6070b02eace9@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/26 gentlestone :
> Can somebody give me an advise where I can found a really good online
> tutorial? All I found are useless.

 is really good, as I remember, as
is .

 For example no tutorial I found
> explains this piece of code:
>
> ? ?someList = [element for element in otherList if element is not
> None]


or 

> or this example:
>
> ? ?a = a or []

Strangely not in the tutorial:
.

-- 
Cheers,
Simon B.


From davea at ieee.org  Wed Aug 26 08:18:15 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 08:18:15 -0400
Subject: Division and right shift in python
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3f74e020908251648k7b391a09g78b155507b2f23c4@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <4A952807.5090608@ieee.org>

Mark Tolonen wrote:
> 

> "Cevahir Demirkiran"  wrote in message 
> news:3f74e020908251648k7b391a09g78b155507b2f23c4 at mail.gmail.com...
>> Hi,
>>
>> I would like to do a floor division by a power of 2 in python to make it
>> faster than / (modular division in 2.x).
>> However, it is slower.
>> What is the reason of that?
>> I checked them via:
>>
>> def f2(x,n):
>>    t1 = clock()
>>    r = x/pow(2,n)
>>    t2 = clock()
>>    print (t2-t1)
>>    print r
>>    t2 = clock()
>>    r = x>>n
>>    t3 = clock()
>>    print (t3-t2)
>>    print r
>>
>
> It's not slower on my system, but note the inconsistent results also:
>
>>>> f2(1024,5)
> 3.47396033483e-06
> 32
> 2.19077375482e-06
> 32
>>>> f2(1024,5)
> 4.84135603429e-06
> 32
> 3.08499440393e-06
> 32
>>>> f2(1024,5)
> 4.6782844052e-06
> 32
> 3.77604384028e-06
> 32
>
> Time it with timeit...
>
> C:\>python -m timeit -n 10000000 -s x=1024 "x>>5"
> 10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.113 usec per loop
>
> C:\>python -m timeit -n 10000000 -s x=1024 "x/pow(2,5)"
> 10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.468 usec per loop
>
> Right-shift is over 4x faster.
>
> -Mark
>
>
>
> 

>
There have been languages and processors in which right shift has been 
notably faster than divide.  But with Python on a Pentium, you're both 
just measuring overhead.  The actual divide or shift is probably less 
than 5% of the time measured.

And that overhead will vary between versions of the interpreter.  I 
measured with Python 2.6.2 on Windows XP, and got

C:\>python -m timeit -n 10000000 -s x=1024 "x>>5"
10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.112 usec per loop

C:\>python -m timeit -n 10000000 -s x=1024 "x/pow(2,5)"
10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.384 usec per loop

But the real overhead is in the function call to pow().  If that had 
been precalculated, then the time for divide is nearly as fast as for 
right shift.

C:\>python -m timeit -n 10000000 -s x=1024 "x/32"
10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.135 usec per loop

And I suspect that some other implementation might well show this 
quicker than the right shift.

I would use whichever code most clearly represents the problem being 
solved.  There are undoubtedly other ways to speed up the code, without 
trying to micro-optimize one expression.

DaveA


From davea at ieee.org  Wed Aug 26 08:34:26 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 08:34:26 -0400
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	
	
Message-ID: <4A952BD2.8010608@ieee.org>

Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>   
>> class Color:
>>     def __init__(self, r, g,b):
>>           pass
>>     BLACK = Color(0,0,0)
>>
>> It make sens from a design point of view to put BLACK in the Color
>> namespace. But I don't think it's possible with python.
>>     
>
> class Color:
>     ...
>
> setattrib(Color, "BLACK", Color(0,0,0))
>
> Uli
>
>   
Or instead of setattrib,

Color.BLACK = Color(0,0,0)

DaveA


From IDOL at il.ibm.com  Wed Aug 26 08:38:50 2009
From: IDOL at il.ibm.com (Ido Levy)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:38:50 +0300
Subject: pygtk - What is the best way to change the mouse pointer
Message-ID: 

Hello All,

I am writing a dialog which one of its widget is a gtk.ComboBoxEntry ( 
let's assume widget in the example below is its instance )
When the user select one of the values from the gtk.ComboBoxEntry I need 
to run some calculations that takes a few seconds.
In order to reflect calculation time to the user I want to switch the 
mouse pointer to an hour glass and back to arrow what it finish the 
calculation.

I use the following code but it doesn't seems to work in a deterministic 
way. From time to time it skips the last line and keep the mouse pointer 
as an hour glass.

        watch = gtk.gdk.Cursor(gtk.gdk.WATCH)
        widget.window.set_cursor(watch)

        calculation code

        widget.window.set_cursor(None)

I would appreciate your advice on the right way to implement this.

Thanks

Ido
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From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Aug 26 08:40:56 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 13:40:56 +0100
Subject: Move dictionary from instance to class level
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	
	
Message-ID: <4A952D58.2050807@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Frank Millman wrote:
> On Aug 26, 10:54 am, Chris Rebert  wrote:
>> On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 1:22 AM, Frank Millman wrote:
>>
>> A
>>
>> class MyClass(object):
>>     def on_message_received(self, msg):
>>         self.method_dict[msg](self)
>>
>>     def method_0(self):
>>         print 'in method_0'
>>
>>     def method_1(self):
>>         print 'in method_1'
>>         method_dict
>>
>>     method_dict = {0: method_0, 1: method_1}
>>     #note this comes *after* the methods in question have been defined
>>
> 
> Thanks, Chris. This is much better.
> 
>> Is there some reason you aren't using a list instead of a dict?
>> e.g. method_dict = [method_0, method_1, method_2, etc]
>>
>> For that matter, why are you associating methods with integers in the
>> first place?
>>
> 
> I actually use constants to define my messages, like this -
> 
> (MESSAGE_ONE
> ,MESSAGE_TWO
> ,MESSAGE_THREE
> ) = xrange(3)
> 
> I can then refer to the messages by their description, but internally it 
> uses integers.
> 
An alternative is:

 >>> class MyClass(object):
...     def on_message_received(self, msg):
...         try:
...             getattr(self, "method_%d" % msg)()
...         except AttributeError:
...             raise Exception("Unknown message")
...     def method_0(self):
...         print 'in method_0'
...     def method_1(self):
...         print 'in method_1'
...
 >>> my_obj = MyClass()
 >>> my_obj.on_message_received(0)
in method_0
 >>> my_obj.on_message_received(1)
in method_1
 >>> my_obj.on_message_received(2)
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "", line 1, in 
   File "", line 6, in on_message_received
Exception: Unknown message
 >>>


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Aug 26 08:45:23 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 22:45:23 +1000
Subject: ubuntu dist-packages
References: 
Message-ID: <87tyzueobg.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Robin Becker  writes:

> What is the relation between dist-packages/site-packages if any? Is
> this just a name change or is there some other problem being
> addressed?

The problem being addressed is to maintain the distinction between
OS-vendor-managed files versus sysadmin-managed files. That is, the
distinction between:

* Python packages installed by the operating system package manager (the
  OS ?distribution?, as distinct from the Python-specific meaning of
  that term); versus

* Python packages installed by the site administrator, outside the
  purview of the OS package manager.

This distinction is important in operating systems with a functioning
package manager.

> For developers is it best just to create one's own private
> installations from the original tarballs?

Developers should be making changes as neither the system administrator
nor the OS package manager, but as a regular user of the system. So
installing to a user-specific package location seems best.

-- 
 \                              ?Holy rising hemlines, Batman!? ?Robin |
  `\                                                                   |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From szport at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 08:51:20 2009
From: szport at gmail.com (zaur)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 05:51:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Object's nesting scope
Message-ID: 

Hi folk!

What do you think about idea of "object's nesting scope" in python?

Let's imaging this feature, for example, in this syntax:

obj=:
     

or

:
   

That's means that result object of  evaluation is used as
nested scope for  evaluation.

So is this idea useful?

Zaur


From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Wed Aug 26 09:02:04 2009
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 14:02:04 +0100
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
Message-ID: 

kj wrote:

> First, one of the goals of OO is encapsulation, not only at the
> level of instances, but also at the level of classes.
Who says?
Anyway, you could be right (I am not capable to judge it) and Python 
should change on this issue but from what I gathered, Pythons OO is 
inspired by the following:
- Don't repeat yourself
- Containing code into logical units makes it easier to understand and 
maintain.

Note the absence of 'OO is defined as X so we are going to do X without 
thinking if X is actually the best way to do it'

> Your comment suggests that Python does not fully support 
> class-level encapsulation.
Probably right too, but being intrigued, why is that necessary, and 
given an example is that the best way to do it?

> Second, my example shows that Python puts some peculiar restrictions
> on recursion.  Recursion!  One of the central concepts in the theory
> of functions!  

It is also one of the best ways to shoot yourself in the foot, but I ask 
you again, is the reason why you encountered this 'limitation' actually 
the best way to solve your problem?

Please forgive my incompetence if this reply sounds harsh and patronizing.

-- 
MPH
http://blog.dcuktec.com
'If consumed, best digested with added seasoning to own preference.'


From grahn+nntp at snipabacken.se  Wed Aug 26 09:09:15 2009
From: grahn+nntp at snipabacken.se (Jorgen Grahn)
Date: 26 Aug 2009 13:09:15 GMT
Subject: Code formatting question: conditional expression
References: 
	<421c8c9d-efb5-4e70-9321-51736b42bc9a@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<46c5c882-c38b-4439-a3cf-62783309cc08@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	<877hwrf4vu.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 16:47:33 +1000, Ben Finney
 wrote:
> "Nicola Larosa (tekNico)"  writes:
>
>> Nicola Larosa wrote:
>> > Here's my take:
>> >
>> > ? ? excessblk = Block(total - P.BASE, srccol,
>> > carry_button_suppress=True
>> > ? ? ? ? ) if total > P.BASE else None
>>
>> Oops, it got shortened out: line longer than 72 chars, acceptable in
>> code, but not in email. I'll try again.
>
> Fine in email; just munged on your behalf (and probably without your
> knowledge) by your email service provider. If you don't want that
> happening, it's probably best to avoid Google Mail.

But this is Usenet (or at least it gets gatewayed there) and there
are such limits here (either by common agreement or by RFC).
Probably not Google's fault.

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn    O  o   .


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Aug 26 09:13:49 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:13:49 +0200
Subject: Object's nesting scope
References: 
Message-ID: <7fkqodF2llnghU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

zaur wrote:

> Hi folk!
> 
> What do you think about idea of "object's nesting scope" in python?
> 
> Let's imaging this feature, for example, in this syntax:
> 
> obj=:
>      
> 
> or
> 
> :
>    
> 
> That's means that result object of  evaluation is used as
> nested scope for  evaluation.
> 
> So is this idea useful?

Whom am we to judge? Sure if you propose this, you have some usecases in
mind - how about you present these?

Diez


From bbxx789_05ss at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 26 09:28:28 2009
From: bbxx789_05ss at yahoo.com (7stud)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 06:28:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	 
	
Message-ID: <8219d86d-cf0b-457f-b823-550dcf7cbf71@p36g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 25, 7:26?pm, Dave Angel  wrote:
> Stephen Fairchild wrote:
> > You are trying to run code in a class that does not exist yet.
>
> > def Demo():
> > ? ? def fact(n):
> > ? ? ? ? if n < 2:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? return 1
> > ? ? ? ? else:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? return n * fact(n - 1)
> > ? ? return type("Demo", (object,), {"fact": staticmethod(fact), "_classvar":
> > fact(5)})
> > Demo = Demo()
>
> > d = Demo()
> > print d._classvar ? ?# prints 120
> > print d.fact(7) ? ? ?# prints 5040
> > print Demo ? ? ? ? ? # prints 
>
>
>
> In all these messages, something I haven't seen pointed out is that
> fact() has no self argument. ?
>

An "argument" is something that is specified in the the function
call.  I assume you are trying to state something like, "fact() is not
defined with a parameter variable named self".  However, that has
never been a requirement in python:


class A(object):

    def fact(n):
        print n

    fact("hello")


a = A()
a.fact()

--output:--
hello
<__main__.A object at 0x7faf0>





From jawad.karachi2010 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 09:29:31 2009
From: jawad.karachi2010 at gmail.com (Jawad Alam)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 06:29:31 -0700 (PDT)
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Message-ID: 

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alaska usa" "jobs in alaska mines" ON http://jobs-in-alaska.blogspot.com/
"JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN ALASKA" "JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN
ALASKA" "jobs in alaska anchorage" "jobs in alaska oil" "jobs in
alaska usa" "jobs in alaska mines" ON http://jobs-in-alaska.blogspot.com/
"JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN ALASKA" "JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN
ALASKA" "jobs in alaska anchorage" "jobs in alaska oil" "jobs in
alaska usa" "jobs in alaska mines" ON http://jobs-in-alaska.blogspot.com/
"JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN ALASKA" "JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN
ALASKA" "jobs in alaska anchorage" "jobs in alaska oil" "jobs in
alaska usa" "jobs in alaska mines" ON http://jobs-in-alaska.blogspot.com/
"JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN ALASKA" "JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN
ALASKA" "jobs in alaska anchorage" "jobs in alaska oil" "jobs in
alaska usa" "jobs in alaska mines" ON http://jobs-in-alaska.blogspot.com/
"JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN ALASKA" "JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN
ALASKA" "jobs in alaska anchorage" "jobs in alaska oil" "jobs in
alaska usa" "jobs in alaska mines" ON http://jobs-in-alaska.blogspot.com/
"JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN ALASKA" "JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN
ALASKA" "jobs in alaska anchorage" "jobs in alaska oil" "jobs in
alaska usa" "jobs in alaska mines" ON http://jobs-in-alaska.blogspot.com/
"JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN ALASKA" "JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN
ALASKA" "jobs in alaska anchorage" "jobs in alaska oil" "jobs in
alaska usa" "jobs in alaska mines" ON http://jobs-in-alaska.blogspot.com/
V


From bbxx789_05ss at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 26 09:31:48 2009
From: bbxx789_05ss at yahoo.com (7stud)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 06:31:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: print() and unicode strings (python 3.1)
References: <4eda8137-7db9-4c39-a2c1-3477b071f7f6@x5g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<4a92b83b$0$27209$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	
	<4a92fb02$0$2582$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	
	
	<84154e6e-c425-4b71-89e3-7d2877a19418@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <811decac-b086-4ca1-af03-84c33819a710@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 25, 6:34?am, Nobody  wrote:
> The underlying OS primitive can only handle bytes. If you read or write a
> (unicode) string, Python needs to know which encoding is used. For Python
> file objects created by the user (via open() etc), you can specify the
> encoding; for those created by the runtime (e.g. sys.stdin), Python uses
> the locale's LC_CTYPE category to select an encoding.
>
> Data written to or read from text streams is encoded or decoded using the
> stream's encoding. Filenames are encoded and decoded using the
> filesystem encoding (sys.getfilesystemencoding()). Anything else uses the
> default encoding (sys.getdefaultencoding()).
>
> In Python 3, text streams are handled using io.TextIOWrapper:
>
> ? ? ? ?http://docs.python.org/3.1/library/io.html#text-i-o
>
> This implements a stream which can read and/or write text data on top of
> one which can read and/or write binary data. The sys.std{in,out,err}
> streams are instances of TextIOWrapper. You can get the underlying
> binary stream from the "buffer" attribute, e.g.:
>
> ? ? ? ? sys.stdout.buffer.write(b'hello world\n')
>
> If you need to force a specific encoding (e.g. if the user has specified
> an encoding via a command-line option), you can detach the existing
> wrapper and create a new one, e.g.:
>
> ? ? ? ? sys.stdout = io.TextIOWrapper(sys.stdout.detach(), encoding = new_encoding)

Thanks for the details.


From mdekauwe at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 09:34:59 2009
From: mdekauwe at gmail.com (Mart.)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 06:34:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Help with arrays
References: 
	
	 
	
Message-ID: <391bbc0f-08ea-4840-a2da-cb36b5632669@m38g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 26, 3:02 am, Dave Angel  wrote:
> Stephen Fairchild wrote:
> > Philip Semanchuk wrote:
>
> >> On Aug 25, 2009, at 6:14 PM, Gleb Belov wrote:
>
> >>> Hello! I'm working on an exercise wherein I have to write a Guess The
> >>> Number game, but it's the computer who's guessing MY number. I can get
> >>> it to work, but there's one obvious problem: the computer generates
> >>> random numbers until one of them corresponds to my number, but it will
> >>> often generate one number (eg. 4) numerous times, meaning it doesn't
> >>> know that this number is invalid. What I mean is, it will sometimes
> >>> use 37 tries to guess a number out of 1 - 9, which makes no sense,
> >>> since it should only take 9 tries, at most. I was trying to find a way
> >>> to make a dynamic list of all the numbers the computer generates in
> >>> the loop and then make it re-generate the number if the previous
> >>> number is present in the list, so it doesn't keep on generating 4 (as
> >>> an example). I don't know if that makes sense... Basically, we humans
> >>> know that once something is incorrect, there's no point in trying to
> >>> use it as the answer next time, because we already know it's
> >>> incorrect. How do I go about coding this in Python? I'm still quite
> >>> new to the language so any help will be appreciated...
>
> >> One cheap way to do it (not necessarily efficient) is to make a list
> >> of your possible guesses (e.g. range(1,10)), use random.shuffle() to
> >> put them in random order and then run through the guesses one at a time.
>
> > import random
> > import time
>
> > l = range(1, 10)
>
> > while l:
> >     print l.pop(random.randint(0, len(l) - 1))
> >     time.sleep(2)
>
> While both of these will work well, I'd point out that a direct
> translation of your question is to use a set.  Define an empty set, and
> each time you try a number unsuccessfully, add it to the set.  Then just use
>        while x in myset:
>                x = newguess()
>
> to find the next guess.  This approach isn't as efficient, but it's a
> useful paradigm to understand.
>
> A separate question is whether the human is supposed to tell the
> computer whether the guess is high or low.  If so, you can eliminate
> many numbers on each guess.   For example, suppose the solution is 8.  A
> guess of 5 would say "too low."  Then you'd cross off now only 5 but 1-4
> as well.
>
> With this change the best solution changes from a random shuffle to a
> binary search.
>
> DaveA

That's a good point if you can define whether the computer has guessed
too low/high, then you could use the previous guess to set a bounds
and rescale the next random guess.

min + (random_number * max)

although I think random.randomint does this for you!


From no.email at please.post  Wed Aug 26 09:57:23 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 13:57:23 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	
Message-ID: 

In  "Martin P. Hellwig"  writes:

>kj wrote:
>
>> First, one of the goals of OO is encapsulation, not only at the
>> level of instances, but also at the level of classes.
>Who says?

Python itself: it already offers a limited form of class encapsulation
(e.g. class variables).  It would be nice if it went all the way
and gave classes their own bona fide scope.  (But I hasten to add:
I *still* don't understand the Python scope model, and not for lack
of trying.  I've only succeeded in finding fragments of this model
explained here and there, like pottery shards: a bit lost in a
tutorial, or some comment in a newsgroup thread, etc.  Maybe the
full, authoritative documentation of Python's scope model got lost
somewhere, and will be found by archaeologists in the 25th century...)

>Anyway, you could be right (I am not capable to judge it) and Python 
>should change on this issue but from what I gathered, Pythons OO is 
>inspired by the following:
>- Don't repeat yourself
>- Containing code into logical units makes it easier to understand and 
>maintain.

...except, apparently, when that code is a recursive function, in
which case one's out of luck.

>> Second, my example shows that Python puts some peculiar restrictions
>> on recursion.  Recursion!  One of the central concepts in the theory
>> of functions!  
>
>It is also one of the best ways to shoot yourself in the foot...

If recursion is so evil, and Python so intent in saving us from
shooting ourselves in the foot, why does it allow recursion at all?

kynn


From no.email at please.post  Wed Aug 26 10:09:57 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 14:09:57 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	<16b72319-8023-471c-ba40-8025aa6d462e@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

In <16b72319-8023-471c-ba40-8025aa6d462e at a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> Carl Banks  writes:


>> First, one of the goals of OO is encapsulation, not only at the
>> level of instances, but also at the level of classes. =A0Your comment
>> suggests that Python does not fully support class-level encapsulation.

>I can't answer this, I don't even know what you are talking about.

Yes, you do.  As I said in another post, Python offers some degree
of class-level encapsulation (e.g. class variables).  But it is
limited by the fact that these class-encapsulated elements can't
always be accessed from within the class itself, which is kind of
silly.

>1. One of the key aspects of Python's design is that attributes must
>be accessed explicitly with dot notation.  Accessing class scopes from
>nested functions would (seemingly) allow access to class attributes
>without the dotted notation.  Therefore it is not allowed.

It would be trivial to define a keyword (e.g. this, or if you
prefer, __this__), valid only within a class statement, and that
the interpreter would recognize as "the current class", even before
this class is full defined.

kynn


From nobody at nowhere.com  Wed Aug 26 10:18:28 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:18:28 +0100
Subject: os.popen output different from native shell output
References: <8119e546-b54d-4e72-b8b7-d1f3d104670f@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 11:42:31 -0700, nickname wrote:

> The reason why I want to do this is because I am going to do a little
> project. I will write a python script called ls which will log the
> time and username and then will show the actual ls output. I want this
> to be transparent and so want to throw the ls output (via python)
> exactly as it will be in native shell execution.

If your script doesn't need the "ls" output for its own purposes, just run
"ls" with its output to the terminal, rather than into a pipe. I.e. don't
use os.popen(), but use os.spawnvp(), os.execvp() or subprocess.call().

If running "ls" is the very last thing which your script does, use
os.execvp(). This causes the program to be executed in the existing
process, rather than spawning a child process and waiting for it to exit.

Because they replace the existing program (the Python interpreter), the
various os.exec* functions don't return (unless there's an error). If you
need to perform any action after the command completes (e.g. log the
execution time), you need to use one of the other functions instead.



From andre.cohen at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 10:19:42 2009
From: andre.cohen at gmail.com (Andre)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 07:19:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Zlib: correct checksum but error decompressing
Message-ID: <99c381ef-a146-4545-9344-7b15d60441de@y20g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>

I have been trying to solve this issue for a while now. I receive data
from a TCP connection which is compressed. I know the correct checksum
for the data and both the client and server generate the same
checksum. However, in Python when it comes to decompressing the data I
get the exception: "Error -5 while decompressing data"! I would assume
that if the string in python is equivalent to the correct checksum
than the decompress function should also work on the same string, but
that's clearly not the case.

# convert data to a byte array
data = array('b', raw_data)
# print checksum for visual inspection
print zlib.crc32(data.tostring())
# try to decompress, but fails!
str = zlib.decompress(data.tostring())

Does anyone know what's going on?


From davea at ieee.org  Wed Aug 26 10:31:31 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 10:31:31 -0400
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: <8219d86d-cf0b-457f-b823-550dcf7cbf71@p36g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
References: 	
	
	<8219d86d-cf0b-457f-b823-550dcf7cbf71@p36g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A954743.4070804@ieee.org>

7stud wrote:
> On Aug 25, 7:26 pm, Dave Angel  wrote:
>   
>> Stephen Fairchild wrote:
>>     
>>> You are trying to run code in a class that does not exist yet.
>>>       
>>> def Demo():
>>>     def fact(n):
>>>         if n < 2:
>>>             return 1
>>>         else:
>>>             return n * fact(n - 1)
>>>     return type("Demo", (object,), {"fact": staticmethod(fact), "_classvar":
>>> fact(5)})
>>> Demo =emo()
>>>       
>>> d =emo()
>>> print d._classvar    # prints 120
>>> print d.fact(7)      # prints 5040
>>> print Demo           # prints 
>>>       
>>
>> In all these messages, something I haven't seen pointed out is that
>> fact() has no self argument.  
>>
>>     
>
> An "argument" is something that is specified in the the function
> call.  I assume you are trying to state something like, "fact() is not
> defined with a parameter variable named self".  However, that has
> never been a requirement in python:
>
>
> class A(object):
>
>     def fact(n):
>         print n
>
>     fact("hello")
>
>
> a =()
> a.fact()
>
> --output:--
> hello
> <__main__.A object at 0x7faf0>
>
>
>
>   
You're good at nitpicking.  I concede the distinction between argument 
and formal parameter.   And self is a convention, not a requirement.   
But the fact is that the method as written would never have worked, when 
called from outside the class, since you'd have to call it with either 
the class name or an instance, and in either case, the method was then 
trying to do arithmetic on one of those.

Thanks for diluting my point.  The OP is chasing the wrong problem.  Who 
cares whether a class initializer can call a method, if the method 
doesn't meet its original requirements, to be callable outside the class?

And the arguments about how recursion is restricted are ridiculous.  
Nothing wrong with a method calling itself, once it's got a proper 
signature.  You just have to make the call agree with the signature.  
The problem is only that the method may not be actually called until the 
class definition is complete.

DaveA



From mwilson at the-wire.com  Wed Aug 26 10:38:50 2009
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 10:38:50 -0400
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
Message-ID: 

kj wrote:

> Is there any good reason (from the point of view of Python's overall
> design) for not fixing this?

Python is not a compiled language, in the sense that a compiler can go back 
and forth over the program, filling in the details that make the program 
runnable.  Python is an interpreted language in a sense that makes a `class` 
statement an executable statement, with a start time and an end time.  
Before the start time, the affected class doesn't exist.  After the start 
time, the class does exist.  In between, while the `class` statement is 
executing, it's best to make no promises so as not to constrain present and 
future implementations.


	Mel.



From frank at chagford.com  Wed Aug 26 10:54:32 2009
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 16:54:32 +0200
Subject: Move dictionary from instance to class level
References: 	
	
Message-ID: 


"MRAB"  wrote in message 
news:mailman.444.1251290454.2854.python-list at python.org...
> An alternative is:
>
> >>> class MyClass(object):
> ...     def on_message_received(self, msg):
> ...         try:
> ...             getattr(self, "method_%d" % msg)()
> ...         except AttributeError:
> ...             raise Exception("Unknown message")
> ...     def method_0(self):
> ...         print 'in method_0'
> ...     def method_1(self):
> ...         print 'in method_1'
> ...
> >>> my_obj = MyClass()
> >>> my_obj.on_message_received(0)
> in method_0
> >>> my_obj.on_message_received(1)
> in method_1
> >>> my_obj.on_message_received(2)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "", line 1, in 
>   File "", line 6, in on_message_received
> Exception: Unknown message

I like the idea. Unfortunately my real-world situation is a little more 
complex than my simple example implied.

This is a more typical example -

    (EVT_GETLOGIN
    ,EVT_LOGOUT
    ,EVT_GETMENUOPT
    ,EVT_GOTFOCUS
    ,EVT_LOSTFOCUS
    ,EVT_BUTTONCLICKED
    ,EVT_CHECKBOX
    ...
    ) = xrange(28)

    method_dict = {}
    method_dict[EVT_GETLOGIN] = onGetLogin
    method_dict[EVT_LOGOUT] = onLogout
    method_dict[EVT_GETMENUOPT] = onGetMenuOpt
    method_dict[EVT_GOTFOCUS] = onGotFocus
    method_dict[EVT_LOSTFOCUS] = onLostFocus
    method_dict[EVT_BUTTONCLICKED] = onButtonClicked
    method_dict[EVT_CHECKBOX] = onCheckBox

You can probably figure out from my method names what I am doing here - the 
messages are sent by a thin client (wxPython), and processed by a server.I 
am anticipating some "don't do that" responses, but I like the concept, and 
so far it is very fast and responsive, so I will pursue it for now.

Thanks for the input.

Frank




From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 10:58:04 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 07:58:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> 
	
	<16b72319-8023-471c-ba40-8025aa6d462e@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <1bf83a7e-f9eb-46ff-84fe-cf42d9608e71@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 26, 7:09?am, kj  wrote:
> In <16b72319-8023-471c-ba40-8025aa6d4... at a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> Carl Banks  writes:
>
> >> First, one of the goals of OO is encapsulation, not only at the
> >> level of instances, but also at the level of classes. =A0Your comment
> >> suggests that Python does not fully support class-level encapsulation.
> >I can't answer this, I don't even know what you are talking about.
>
> Yes, you do. ?As I said in another post, Python offers some degree
> of class-level encapsulation (e.g. class variables). ?But it is
> limited by the fact that these class-encapsulated elements can't
> always be accessed from within the class itself, which is kind of
> silly.

Nope, you're wrong.  Class variables are accessible wherever a class
exists.  The apparent silliness of this is because you are confusing
classes with class statements.

You know that the class isn't created until the class statement exits,
don't you?

Yeah, it's a little surprising that you can't access class scope from
a function, but that has nothing to do with encapsulation.

> >1. One of the key aspects of Python's design is that attributes must
> >be accessed explicitly with dot notation. ?Accessing class scopes from
> >nested functions would (seemingly) allow access to class attributes
> >without the dotted notation. ?Therefore it is not allowed.
>
> It would be trivial to define a keyword (e.g. this, or if you
> prefer, __this__), valid only within a class statement, and that
> the interpreter would recognize as "the current class", even before
> this class is full defined.

Your solution to this "problem" is to add a keyword to Python.
Laughable.  (BTW, it's not trivial.)


Carl Banks


From no.email at please.post  Wed Aug 26 10:58:10 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 14:58:10 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

In  Dave Angel  writes:

>Stephen Fairchild wrote:
>> You are trying to run code in a class that does not exist yet. 
>>
>> def Demo():
>>     def fact(n):
>>         if n < 2:
>>             return 1
>>         else:
>>             return n * fact(n - 1)
>>     return type("Demo", (object,), {"fact": staticmethod(fact), "_classvar":
>> fact(5)})
>> Demo = Demo()
>>
>> d = Demo()
>> print d._classvar    # prints 120
>> print d.fact(7)      # prints 5040
>> print Demo           # prints 
>>
>>   
>In all these messages, something I haven't seen pointed out is that 
>fact() has no self argument.  Seems to me that makes it a staticmethod, 
>so it should be declared that way.

No, the fact() function here represents an internal "helper"
function.  It is meant to be called only once to help initialize
a class variable that would be inconvenient to initialize otherwise;
this helper function is not meant to be called from outside the
class statement.  Granted, in the example I gave, the "helper"
function (factorial) is a bit silly, but that was just intended as
a simple and familiar example of a recursive function.  The actual
function that motivated this post would be considerably more
difficult to explain and would have obscured the point of the post.

kynn


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Wed Aug 26 10:58:15 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 26 Aug 2009 14:58:15 GMT
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
References: 
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
	
	
	<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com>
	
	
	
	
	<02a31f91$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<44bcb727-0885-4d4f-9c11-ca60a39b0d91@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<02a3e1e2$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <02a53d89$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 11:45:28 -0700, Mensanator wrote:

> On Aug 25, 9:14?am, Steven D'Aprano  cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>> On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:01:38 -0700, Mensanator wrote:
>> >> If you want your data file to have values entered in hex, or oct, or
>> >> even unary (1=one, 11=two, 111=three, 1111=four...) you can.
>>
>> > Unary? I think you'll find that Standard Positional Number Systems
>> > are not defined for radix 1.
>>
>> Of course not. But unary isn't a positional number system. It's a tally
>> system, like my example above shows. Roman numerals are another tally
>> system. Like Roman numerals, the disadvantages of unary are that you
>> can't represent negative numbers, zero, or fractions, and anything but
>> addition and subtraction is difficult. But if you want to use it,
>> perhaps out of a sense of sadism towards your users, it's easy:
[...]
> But without insignificant leading 0's, I fail to see the relevance of
> unary to this discussion.

It was just an example of how you can use numeric data in any format, no 
matter how obscure, weird or difficult, you can use it by passing it 
through an appropriate converter. You don't need compiler support for 
user-supplied data, you just write your own function.

As for insignificant leading zeroes, such a thing is meaningless in a 
base-1 tally system. Zero is the absence of a tally mark.


> And what would you call a tally system of
> radix 2? Certainly not binary.

"Radix" isn't the correct term, because radix doesn't apply to tally 
counting systems. I'd accept "base 2", in the sense that the tally is 
based on two different marks. We do something similar when we mark four 
tally lines, then for five we mark a diagonal line through the previous 
four. So by analogy a base-2 tally could go:

/     one
X     two
X/    three
XX    four
XX/   five
XXX   six
XXX/  seven


But I certainly wouldn't call it "binary", for fear of confusion with 
radix-2 binary. Possibly binary-tally, for lack of a better term.



-- 
Steven


From patrol at invisibleroads.com  Wed Aug 26 11:01:37 2009
From: patrol at invisibleroads.com (InvisibleRoads Patrol)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 10:01:37 -0500
Subject: Zlib: correct checksum but error decompressing
In-Reply-To: <99c381ef-a146-4545-9344-7b15d60441de@y20g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>
References: <99c381ef-a146-4545-9344-7b15d60441de@y20g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1e55aa13bc60afb4835118cd3f027008@mail.webfaction.com>

On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 07:19:42 -0700 (PDT), Andre 
wrote:
> I have been trying to solve this issue for a while now. I receive data
> from a TCP connection which is compressed. I know the correct checksum
> for the data and both the client and server generate the same
> checksum. However, in Python when it comes to decompressing the data I
> get the exception: "Error -5 while decompressing data"! I would assume
> that if the string in python is equivalent to the correct checksum
> than the decompress function should also work on the same string, but
> that's clearly not the case.
> 
> # convert data to a byte array
> data = array('b', raw_data)
> # print checksum for visual inspection
> print zlib.crc32(data.tostring())
> # try to decompress, but fails!
> str = zlib.decompress(data.tostring())
> 
> Does anyone know what's going on?

Hi Andre,

Hmm.  Can you decompress the string on the server before it was sent? 
Maybe the zipfile or gzip module will work.
Reference:
http://bytes.com/topic/python/answers/42131-zlib-decompress-cannot-gunzip-can
from cStringIO import StringIO
from gzip import GzipFile
body = GzipFile('', 'r', 0, StringIO(raw_data)).read()

You might want to try experimenting with the wbits parameter of
zlib.decompress()
Reference:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2008-December/691694.html
zlib.decompress(data, -15)

The zlib module seems to work fine with both strings and byte arrays.
import array, zlib
dataAsString = zlib.compress('example string')
dataAsArray = array.array('b', dataAsString)
zlib.decompress(dataAsString) == zlib.decompress(dataAsArray)
zlib.decompress(dataAsString) == zlib.decompress(dataAsArray.tostring())

-- 
http://invisibleroads.com

We train ordinary people into Python software developers and connect them
with jobs and projects for local businesses.


From davea at ieee.org  Wed Aug 26 11:13:14 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 11:13:14 -0400
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
Message-ID: <4A95510A.2060704@ieee.org>

kj wrote:
> In <7figv3F2m3p0dU1 at mid.uni-berlin.de> "Diez B. Roggisch"  writes:
>
>   
>> Classes are not scopes.
>>     
>
> This looks to me like a major wart, on two counts.
>
> First, one of the goals of OO is encapsulation, not only at the
> level of instances, but also at the level of classes.  Your comment
> suggests that Python does not fully support class-level encapsulation.
>
> Second, my example shows that Python puts some peculiar restrictions
> on recursion.  Recursion!  One of the central concepts in the theory
> of functions!  This is shown most clearly by the following elaboration
> of my original example:
>
> class Demo(object):
>     def fact_rec(n):
>         if n < 2:
>             return 1
>         else:
>             return n * fact_rec(n - 1)
>
>   
Why not fix the call?  The correct way to call a method is with either 
the class name or an instance object, depending on whether it's a 
instance method or not.  By default, a method is unbound, and its first 
argument is by convention called self.  If you want to recurse, then add 
self in the appropriate places.

As you have it, neither of the methods can be called outside the class:

class Demo(object):
    def fact_rec(n):
        if n < 2:
            return 1
        else:
            return n * fact_rec(n - 1)
     ....

obj = Demo()
print obj.fact_rec(5)

gives error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "M:\Programming\Python\sources\dummy\stuff2.py", line 20, in 
    print obj.fact_rec(5)
TypeError: fact_rec() takes exactly 1 argument (2 given)

To fix it, you need to either change the signature (add in 'self' 
argument before the n argument) or do some form of decorator to the 
function.  If I assume you never intended this method to use 'self'  
(ie. it's a static method), then declare it so.  And call it accordingly.


class Demo(object):
    @staticmethod
    def fact(n):
        if n < 2:
            return 1
        else:
            return n * Demo.fact(n - 1)


print Demo.fact(6)

On the other hand, if I assume you're just giving a simple example of 
what's really intended to be a normal method (called with an instance, 
that it uses), then you'd change it this way.

class Demo2(object):
    def fact(self, n):
        if n<2:
            return 1
        else:
            return n * self.fact(n-1)

obj = Demo2()
print obj.fact(5)

Now the only real restriction, as opposed to all these red-herrings, is 
that the class may not be used before it's complete.  That only comes to 
play when class attributes (non-instance "variables") are defined in 
terms of class methods.  So if you have such attributes to define, move 
them outside of the class, perhaps immediately after it.


class Demo(object):
    @staticmethod
    def fact(n):
        if n < 2:
            return 1
        else:
            return n * Demo.fact(n - 1)
Demo._classvar = Demo.fact(5)

>     def fact_iter(n):
>         ret = 1
>         for i in range(1, n + 1):
>             ret *= i
>         return ret
>
>     classvar1 = fact_iter(5)
>     classvar2 = fact_rec(5)
>
> This code won't compile as shown, 
Sure it will compile.  It just won't run.  You get the error after 
compiling the function when *calling* it from the classvar* line.  But 
at that time the class is not defined, and not everything is ready for use.

You can probably work around this by replacing the staticmethod 
decorator with an equivalent function call:.

class Demo9(object):
    def fact(n):
        if n < 2:
            return 1
        else:
            return n * Demo.fact(n - 1)

    _classvar = fact(5)
    fact = staticmethod(fact)

print Demo9._classvar
xx = Demo9()
print xx.fact(6)
print Demo9.fact(8)
> but it does compile if the last
> line (the call to the recursive fact_rec) is commented out.  There
> is no justification for discriminating against recursive functions
> in this context.  Recursive functions should be OK wherever functions
> are OK.  I can't think of any other language that allows recursion
> but not anywhere.
>
> Is there any good reason (from the point of view of Python's overall
> design) for not fixing this?
>
> kynn
>
>
>   


From no.email at please.post  Wed Aug 26 11:14:27 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:14:27 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 	
	
	<8219d86d-cf0b-457f-b823-550dcf7cbf71@p36g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

In  Dave Angel  writes:

>Thanks for diluting my point.  The OP is chasing the wrong problem.  Who 
>cares whether a class initializer can call a method, if the method 
>doesn't meet its original requirements, to be callable outside the class?

>And the arguments about how recursion is restricted are ridiculous.  
>Nothing wrong with a method calling itself, once it's got a proper 
>signature.  You just have to make the call agree with the signature.  
>The problem is only that the method may not be actually called until the 
>class definition is complete.

As I described at length in another reply, the function in question
is not intended to be "callable outside the class".  And yes,
recursive functions in Python *are* restricted in ways that
non-recursive functions aren't.  The examples I've posted prove
this point unambiguously.

At this point the only defense for this restriction is to claim
that it is somehow negligible.  But I disagree.  It's easy to come
up with equally negligible, and equally indefensible, restrictions
to the language would be found quite unacceptable by most users.
E.g. suppose that Python's specification prohibited the use of
upper case X in an identifier.  That's certainly a negligible
restriction: it is not harder at all to write great software without
the services of the letter X than with them.  Still, I think most
users would find this restriction infuriatingly idiotic.  Which
pretty much captures what I feel about Python's prohibition of
recursive functions within class statements.

kynn


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 11:15:53 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 08:15:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Context manager to temporarily change the variable of a register 
	[aka write swap(a,b)]
References: <7c171ce3-56a7-482f-addd-c6c86441cba7@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<7c2c560f-d54c-492c-a847-e8ab079faea0@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <42b95155-db9d-4865-9039-c11ba556f3b4@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 25, 1:07?pm, Evan Driscoll  wrote:
> On Aug 25, 2:33?pm, Evan Driscoll  wrote:
>
> > I want to make a context manager that will temporarily change the
> > value of a variable within the scope of a 'with' that uses it. This is
> > inspired by a C++ RAII object I've used in a few projects. Ideally,
> > what I want is something like the following:
>
> Okay, so I think I actually got this with some consultation with a
> friend. Critiques?
>
> ? ? from contextlib import contextmanager
> ? ? import inspect
>
> ? ? def get_parents_var(offset, var):
> ? ? ? ? f = inspect.stack()[offset][0]
> ? ? ? ? if var in f.f_locals:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? return f.f_locals[var]
> ? ? ? ? else:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? return f.f_globals[var]
>
> ? ? def set_parents_var(offset, var, val):
> ? ? ? ? f = inspect.stack()[offset][0]
> ? ? ? ? if var in f.f_locals:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? f.f_locals[var] = val
> ? ? ? ? elif var in f_globals:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? f.f_globals[var] = val
> ? ? ? ? else:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? assert False
>
> ? ? @contextmanager
> ? ? def changed_value_tb(var_name, temp_value):
> ? ? ? ? # 1 is here, 2 will be the implicit next() function, 3 is the
> real caller
> ? ? ? ? offset = 3
> ? ? ? ? old_value = get_parents_var(offset, var_name)
> ? ? ? ? set_parents_var(offset, var_name, temp_value)
> ? ? ? ? try:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? yield None
> ? ? ? ? finally:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? set_parents_var(offset, var_name, old_value)
>
> ? ? x = 5
> ? ? print x ? # prints 5
> ? ? with changed_value_tb("x", 10):
> ? ? ? ? print x ?# prints 10
> ? ? print x ?# prints 5

Well, it wouldn't be a "can I rebind a variable using a with-
statement" thread if someone didn't post a solution that they thought
worked, but didn't test it on local variables.


Carl Banks


From la.foma at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 11:18:23 2009
From: la.foma at gmail.com (Maggie)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 08:18:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Raw data extraction question
Message-ID: <250bf47b-6307-435a-b991-caee359c4ccf@n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

i have event timing stretch of code i need to alter. here is code
below:
--------------
# we start each run with one full silent trial
# creating a "stub" with the duration of a full block
# less the discarded acquisitions
stub = block_dur - (distax * tr)

feed = sys.stdin.readlines()
sess = -1
for line in feed:
    if re.search(line != rest):
	   time = (line + line (-1)) + (distax * tr)
	  		print time

	 elif (line(-1) = rest):
	    # block onsets are determined by
	    # block number, block duration,
	    # and the stub; 3dDeconvolve
            # takes care of making these
	    # "global"
        	time = (line) + (distax * tr)
	    	print time
-----
my concern is that it is extracting line number and not data contained
on a given line. I need it to extract data from each line (excluding
lines with spaces and/or lines that contain the word "pause" or
"silence"). Basically i need ONLY raw data extracted from line 1 -
onward.

Please let me know if you have any suggestions.

Thanks!


From no.email at please.post  Wed Aug 26 11:27:06 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:27:06 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	<16b72319-8023-471c-ba40-8025aa6d462e@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
	<1bf83a7e-f9eb-46ff-84fe-cf42d9608e71@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

In <1bf83a7e-f9eb-46ff-84fe-cf42d9608e71 at j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> Carl Banks  writes:

>On Aug 26, 7:09=A0am, kj  wrote:
>> In <16b72319-8023-471c-ba40-8025aa6d4... at a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> Ca=
>rl Banks  writes:
>>
>> >> First, one of the goals of OO is encapsulation, not only at the
>> >> level of instances, but also at the level of classes. =3DA0Your commen=
>t
>> >> suggests that Python does not fully support class-level encapsulation.
>> >I can't answer this, I don't even know what you are talking about.
>>
>> Yes, you do. =A0As I said in another post, Python offers some degree
>> of class-level encapsulation (e.g. class variables). =A0But it is
>> limited by the fact that these class-encapsulated elements can't
>> always be accessed from within the class itself, which is kind of
>> silly.

>Nope, you're wrong.  Class variables are accessible wherever a class
>exists.  The apparent silliness of this is because you are confusing
>classes with class statements.

Repeating an earlier example (though I've switched the order of
the two internal functions):

class Demo(object):
    def fact_iter(n):
        ret = 1
        for i in range(1, n + 1):
            ret *= i
        return ret

    def fact_rec(n):
        if n < 2:
            return 1
        else:
            return n * fact_rec(n - 1)

    classvar1 = fact_iter(5)
    classvar2 = fact_rec(5)


In the initialization of classvar1, fact_iter is invoked without
any problem even though the class is not yet created: no need to
qualify it with the name of the class.  This is completely inconsistent
with the requirement that fact_rec be so qualified when invoked
within fact_rec.

kynn


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 11:27:24 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 08:27:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> 
	
	
Message-ID: <90b1ff07-19cf-4eeb-abc5-80445da9f790@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 26, 8:13?am, Dave Angel  wrote:
> You can probably work around this by replacing the staticmethod
> decorator with an equivalent function call:.
>
> class Demo9(object):
> ? ? def fact(n):
> ? ? ? ? if n < 2:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? return 1
> ? ? ? ? else:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? return n * Demo.fact(n - 1)
>
> ? ? _classvar = fact(5)
> ? ? fact = staticmethod(fact)
>
> print Demo9._classvar
> xx = Demo9()
> print xx.fact(6)
> print Demo9.fact(8)

This won't work normally.  It only worked for you because you made a
typo.


Carl Banks


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Wed Aug 26 11:32:38 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 26 Aug 2009 15:32:38 GMT
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> 
Message-ID: <02a54597$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 10:57:32 +0000, kj wrote:

> In <7figv3F2m3p0dU1 at mid.uni-berlin.de> "Diez B. Roggisch"
>  writes:
> 
>>Classes are not scopes.
> 
> This looks to me like a major wart, on two counts.
> 
> First, one of the goals of OO is encapsulation, not only at the level of
> instances, but also at the level of classes.  Your comment suggests that
> Python does not fully support class-level encapsulation.

I don't even know what that is supposed to mean. If anything, your 
problem could be because Python has TOO MUCH "class-level encapsulation" 
compared to what you are expecting: functions inside a class don't see 
the class attributes you expect them too.

Actually, I think your problem is that you are interpreting what you're 
seeing in terms of C++ or Java, and assuming that whatever they do is the 
One True Definition of OO. That's hardly valid -- if any language 
deserves the label of the One True OO Design, it might be Smalltalk, on 
the basis that it was the first OO language. But even that is silly -- 
just because something was the first, that doesn't make it the best 
example of something.


> Second, my example shows that Python puts some peculiar restrictions on
> recursion.  

Incorrect. Recursive calls are just like any other function call in 
Python: when you call *any* function from the body of a function, it must 
be in scope at runtime.

def fact(n):
    print g()  # g must be in scope when fact is called
    if n < 2: return 1
    return n*fact(n-1)  # fact must be in scope when fact is called


Python doesn't treat recursive functions specially in any way. It is 
*classes*, not functions, that are special. This is explained in the docs:

http://docs.python.org/reference/executionmodel.html

It is also discussed in the PEP introducing nested scopes to Python:

http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0227/

It's even eluded to in the tutorial:

http://docs.python.org/tutorial/classes.html




> Recursion!  One of the central concepts in the theory of
> functions!  This is shown most clearly by the following elaboration of
> my original example:
> 
> class Demo(object):
>     def fact_rec(n):
>         if n < 2:
>             return 1
>         else:
>             return n * fact_rec(n - 1)

Why are you defining a method without a self parameter?

In any case, the problem has nothing to do with recursion:


>>> class Broken:
...     def f():
...             return g()
...     def g():
...             return "gee"
...     x = f()
...
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
  File "", line 6, in Broken
  File "", line 3, in f
NameError: global name 'g' is not defined




>     def fact_iter(n):
>         ret = 1
>         for i in range(1, n + 1):
>             ret *= i
>         return ret
> 
>     classvar1 = fact_iter(5)
>     classvar2 = fact_rec(5)
> 
> This code won't compile as shown, 

That's nonsense. It compiles, and then it suffers a runtime error when 
you *execute* it.  (NameError occurs at runtime, not at compile time.) 
You can prove this for yourself by putting that above class definition 
inside a string, s:

>>> x = compile(s, '', 'exec')
>>> exec(x)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
  File "", line 1, in 
  File "", line 15, in Demo
  File "", line 6, in fact_rec
NameError: global name 'fact_rec' is not defined


If you expect us to take your criticisms seriously, at least get your 
basic facts right.


[...]
> Is there any good reason (from the point of view of Python's overall
> design) for not fixing this?

It doesn't need to be "fixed" because it's not broken. The question is, 
should it be *changed* to match C++ programmers' expectations?



-- 
Steven


From no.email at please.post  Wed Aug 26 11:36:35 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:36:35 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	<16b72319-8023-471c-ba40-8025aa6d462e@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
	<1bf83a7e-f9eb-46ff-84fe-cf42d9608e71@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

In <1bf83a7e-f9eb-46ff-84fe-cf42d9608e71 at j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> Carl Banks  writes:

>Yeah, it's a little surprising that you can't access class scope from
>a function, but that has nothing to do with encapsulation.

It does: it thwarts encapsulation.  The helper function in my
example is one that clearly rightfully belongs nowhere else than
the class itself, i.e. encapsulated within the class.  It is only
this silly prohibition against recursive functions in a class
statement that forces one to put it outside the class statement.

kynn


From davea at ieee.org  Wed Aug 26 11:37:52 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 11:37:52 -0400
Subject: Help with arrays
In-Reply-To: <391bbc0f-08ea-4840-a2da-cb36b5632669@m38g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: 		
	
	<391bbc0f-08ea-4840-a2da-cb36b5632669@m38g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A9556D0.1060508@ieee.org>

Mart. wrote:
> On Aug 26, 3:02 am, Dave Angel  wrote:
>   
>> Stephen Fairchild wrote:
>>     
>>> Philip Semanchuk wrote:
>>>       
>>>> On Aug 25, 2009, at 6:14 PM, Gleb Belov wrote:
>>>>         
>>>>> Hello! I'm working on an exercise wherein I have to write a Guess The
>>>>> Number game, but it's the computer who's guessing MY number. I can get
>>>>> it to work, but there's one obvious problem: the computer generates
>>>>> random numbers until one of them corresponds to my number, but it will
>>>>> often generate one number (eg. 4) numerous times, meaning it doesn't
>>>>> know that this number is invalid. What I mean is, it will sometimes
>>>>> use 37 tries to guess a number out of 1 - 9, which makes no sense,
>>>>> since it should only take 9 tries, at most. I was trying to find a way
>>>>> to make a dynamic list of all the numbers the computer generates in
>>>>> the loop and then make it re-generate the number if the previous
>>>>> number is present in the list, so it doesn't keep on generating 4 (as
>>>>> an example). I don't know if that makes sense... Basically, we humans
>>>>> know that once something is incorrect, there's no point in trying to
>>>>> use it as the answer next time, because we already know it's
>>>>> incorrect. How do I go about coding this in Python? I'm still quite
>>>>> new to the language so any help will be appreciated...
>>>>>           
>>>> One cheap way to do it (not necessarily efficient) is to make a list
>>>> of your possible guesses (e.g. range(1,10)), use random.shuffle() to
>>>> put them in random order and then run through the guesses one at a time.
>>>>         
>>> import random
>>> import time
>>>       
>>> l = range(1, 10)
>>>       
>>> while l:
>>>     print l.pop(random.randint(0, len(l) - 1))
>>>     time.sleep(2)
>>>       
>> While both of these will work well, I'd point out that a direct
>> translation of your question is to use a set.  Define an empty set, and
>> each time you try a number unsuccessfully, add it to the set.  Then just use
>>        while x in myset:
>>                x = newguess()
>>
>> to find the next guess.  This approach isn't as efficient, but it's a
>> useful paradigm to understand.
>>
>> A separate question is whether the human is supposed to tell the
>> computer whether the guess is high or low.  If so, you can eliminate
>> many numbers on each guess.   For example, suppose the solution is 8.  A
>> guess of 5 would say "too low."  Then you'd cross off now only 5 but 1-4
>> as well.
>>
>> With this change the best solution changes from a random shuffle to a
>> binary search.
>>
>> DaveA
>>     
>
> That's a good point if you can define whether the computer has guessed
> too low/high, then you could use the previous guess to set a bounds
> and rescale the next random guess.
>
> min + (random_number * max)
>
> although I think random.randomint does this for you!
>
>   
Actually, if you change the specs this way, you don't need random at 
all.  Just guess halfway through the remaining range.  To guess a number 
between 1 and 100 this way takes 7 guesses, worst case.  (plus/minus 1, 
I haven't checked)   Same problem as searching a sorted list.

This code (from:  
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/212358/binary-search-in-python)  
appears to search a sorted list

|def binary_search(a, x, lo=0, hi=None):
    if hi is None:
        hi = len(a)
    while lo < hi:
        mid = (lo+hi)//2
        midval = a[mid]
        if midval < x:
            lo = mid+1
        elif midval > x: 
            hi = mid
        else:
            return mid
    return -1

|


DaveA


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Wed Aug 26 11:40:35 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 26 Aug 2009 15:40:35 GMT
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> 
	
	
Message-ID: <02a54775$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 13:57:23 +0000, kj wrote:

> In  "Martin P. Hellwig"
>  writes:
> 
>>kj wrote:
>>
>>> First, one of the goals of OO is encapsulation, not only at the level
>>> of instances, but also at the level of classes.
>>Who says?
> 
> Python itself: it already offers a limited form of class encapsulation
> (e.g. class variables).

An int variable is an int. A string variable is a string. A bool variable 
is a bool. A class variable is a class.

Perhaps you mean a class attribute?


> It would be nice if it went all the way and
> gave classes their own bona fide scope.

Classes have their own bona fide scope. It just doesn't work the way you 
expect it to.


> (But I hasten to add: I *still*
> don't understand the Python scope model, and not for lack of trying. 
> I've only succeeded in finding fragments of this model explained here
> and there, like pottery shards: a bit lost in a tutorial, or some
> comment in a newsgroup thread, etc.  Maybe the full, authoritative
> documentation of Python's scope model got lost somewhere, and will be
> found by archaeologists in the 25th century...)

It's all in the Fine Manual:

http://docs.python.org/reference/executionmodel.html


 
>>Anyway, you could be right (I am not capable to judge it) and Python
>>should change on this issue but from what I gathered, Pythons OO is
>>inspired by the following:
>>- Don't repeat yourself
>>- Containing code into logical units makes it easier to understand and
>>maintain.
> 
> ...except, apparently, when that code is a recursive function, in which
> case one's out of luck.

Incorrect. As I showed in my previous post, your problem has nothing to 
do with recursion.


>>> Second, my example shows that Python puts some peculiar restrictions
>>> on recursion.  Recursion!  One of the central concepts in the theory
>>> of functions!
>>
>>It is also one of the best ways to shoot yourself in the foot...
> 
> If recursion is so evil, and Python so intent in saving us from shooting
> ourselves in the foot, why does it allow recursion at all?

Recursion isn't evil, and Python isn't intent on preventing foot-shooting.



-- 
Steven


From no.email at please.post  Wed Aug 26 11:45:54 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:45:54 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	<02a54597$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

In <02a54597$0$20629$c3e8da3 at news.astraweb.com> Steven D'Aprano  writes:

>On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 10:57:32 +0000, kj wrote:

>> Recursion!  One of the central concepts in the theory of
>> functions!  This is shown most clearly by the following elaboration of
>> my original example:
>> 
>> class Demo(object):
>>     def fact_rec(n):
>>         if n < 2:
>>             return 1
>>         else:
>>             return n * fact_rec(n - 1)

>Why are you defining a method without a self parameter?

Because, as I've explained elsewhere, it is not a method: it's a
"helper" function, meant to be called only once, within the class
statement itself.

Well, this is not strictly true, because the function is recursive,
so it will also call itself a few times.  But still, all these
calls happen (loosely speaking) "within the class statement".

In fact the only reason to use a function for such initialization
work is when one needs recursion; otherwise there's no point in
defining a function that will only be invoked exactly once.

kynn


From grahn+nntp at snipabacken.se  Wed Aug 26 11:48:53 2009
From: grahn+nntp at snipabacken.se (Jorgen Grahn)
Date: 26 Aug 2009 15:48:53 GMT
Subject: ubuntu dist-packages
References: 
	<7fki3lF2kirnkU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 12:46:13 +0200, Diez B. Roggisch
 wrote:
> Robin Becker wrote:
>
>> I was surprised a couple of days ago when trying to assist a colleage with
>> his python setup on a ubuntu 9.04 system.
>> 
>> We built our c-extensions and manually copied them into place, but
>> site-packages wasn't there. It seems that ubuntu now wants stuff to go
>> into lib/python2.6/dist-packages.
...

> I don't know much about the atrocities distributions commit to
> python-installations (ripping out distutils "because it's a developer-only
> thing",

Well, if you are thinking about Debian Linux, it's not as much
"ripping out" as "splitting into a separate package with a non-obvious
name". Annoying at times, but hardly an atrocity.

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn    O  o   .


From wiggly at wiggly.org  Wed Aug 26 11:49:10 2009
From: wiggly at wiggly.org (Nigel Rantor)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 16:49:10 +0100
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A955976.6000303@wiggly.org>

kj wrote:
>
> Needless to say, I'm pretty beat by this point.  Any help would be
> appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,

Based on your statement above, and the fact that multiple people have
now explained *exactly* why your attempt at recursion hasn't worked, it
might be a good idea to step back, accept the advice and walk away
instead of trying to convince people that the language forbids recursion
and doesn't provide decent OO ecapsulation.

Otherwise I'd wager you'll soon be appearing in multiple kill-files.

  n



From davea at ieee.org  Wed Aug 26 11:54:13 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 11:54:13 -0400
Subject: Move dictionary from instance to class level
In-Reply-To: 
References: 		
	
Message-ID: <4A955AA5.6000200@ieee.org>

Frank Millman wrote:
> "MRAB"  wrote in message 
> news:mailman.444.1251290454.2854.python-list at python.org...
>   
>> An alternative is:
>>
>>     
>>>>> class MyClass(object):
>>>>>           
>> ...     def on_message_received(self, msg):
>> ...         try:
>> ...             getattr(self, "method_%d" % msg)()
>> ...         except AttributeError:
>> ...             raise Exception("Unknown message")
>> ...     def method_0(self):
>> ...         print 'in method_0'
>> ...     def method_1(self):
>> ...         print 'in method_1'
>> ...
>>     
>>>>> my_obj = MyClass()
>>>>> my_obj.on_message_received(0)
>>>>>           
>> in method_0
>>     
>>>>> my_obj.on_message_received(1)
>>>>>           
>> in method_1
>>     
>>>>> my_obj.on_message_received(2)
>>>>>           
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "", line 1, in 
>>   File "", line 6, in on_message_received
>> Exception: Unknown message
>>     
>
> I like the idea. Unfortunately my real-world situation is a little more 
> complex than my simple example implied.
>
> This is a more typical example -
>
>     (EVT_GETLOGIN
>     ,EVT_LOGOUT
>     ,EVT_GETMENUOPT
>     ,EVT_GOTFOCUS
>     ,EVT_LOSTFOCUS
>     ,EVT_BUTTONCLICKED
>     ,EVT_CHECKBOX
>     ...
>     ) = xrange(28)
>
>     method_dict = {}
>     method_dict[EVT_GETLOGIN] = onGetLogin
>     method_dict[EVT_LOGOUT] = onLogout
>     method_dict[EVT_GETMENUOPT] = onGetMenuOpt
>     method_dict[EVT_GOTFOCUS] = onGotFocus
>     method_dict[EVT_LOSTFOCUS] = onLostFocus
>     method_dict[EVT_BUTTONCLICKED] = onButtonClicked
>     method_dict[EVT_CHECKBOX] = onCheckBox
>
> You can probably figure out from my method names what I am doing here - the 
> messages are sent by a thin client (wxPython), and processed by a server.I 
> am anticipating some "don't do that" responses, but I like the concept, and 
> so far it is very fast and responsive, so I will pursue it for now.
>
> Thanks for the input.
>
> Frank
>
>
>   
Any time I see multiple lists like that which have to stay in synch, I 
think code-smell.

Why not let the EVT's be passed as strings, and avoid the whole mapping 
to integers and mapping back detail?  And name the methods involved in a 
way that you can directly translate the string to the method name?

Barring that, make a single "structure" which lists the event names and 
method names in matched pairs, and derive whatever lists and 
dictionaries you actually need from that one structure.  And that 
structure should be shared between client and server code, perhaps as a 
text file that they both parse.  Or as a stream that's passed from one 
to the other during startup.  That way, consistency between them can be 
regulated (with version string in the file, for example)

DaveA



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Wed Aug 26 11:55:08 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 26 Aug 2009 15:55:08 GMT
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> 
	<16b72319-8023-471c-ba40-8025aa6d462e@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <02a54ade$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 14:09:57 +0000, kj wrote:

>>1. One of the key aspects of Python's design is that attributes must be
>>accessed explicitly with dot notation.  Accessing class scopes from
>>nested functions would (seemingly) allow access to class attributes
>>without the dotted notation.  Therefore it is not allowed.
> 
> It would be trivial to define a keyword (e.g. this, or if you prefer,
> __this__), valid only within a class statement, and that the interpreter
> would recognize as "the current class", even before this class is full
> defined.

Python doesn't treat the addition of new keywords, and the corresponding 
breakage of code which used that word as a normal name, as "trivial" -- 
the Python dev team takes their responsibilities to not casually break 
people's code seriously. That pretty much rules out "this", although it 
would allow "__this__".

However, what's your use-case?

class Demo(object):
    def f(n):
        return n+1
    x = f(10)


is a poorly written class, because the user will expect to do this:

instance = Demo()
assert instance.c == 11  # suceeds
instance.f(10) == 11  # fails


Since the function f doesn't refer to a Demo instance, or the Demo class, 
why do you put it inside the Demo class? It doesn't belong there, it 
belongs in the global (module) scope. Move it out, and your problem goes 
away.

The only use-case I can think of for __this__ is the following:

class Example(object):
    @staticmethod
    def rec(n):
        if n < 2: return "x"
        return "x" + __this__.rec(n/2)

Example.rec(15)


but again, why include rec() in the class if it doesn't actually have 
anything to do with the class or the instance? Or why make it a 
staticmethod? Just make it a class method:

class Example(object):
    @classmethod
    def rec(cls, n):
        if n < 2: return "x"
        return "x" + cls.rec(n/2)



-- 
Steven


From marcandre at abppers.com  Wed Aug 26 12:10:34 2009
From: marcandre at abppers.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Marc-Andr=E9_Ouellette?=)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 12:10:34 -0400
Subject: WEB PROGRAMMER ANALYST (with Python knowledge) for Laval,
	Quebec needed.
Message-ID: <7116C98A7E6E4F8785817A4A92A545D7@abppers.local>

To whom it may concern,

 

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Marc-Andr? Ouellette

Consultant en recrutement

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From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 12:13:40 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 09:13:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> 
	
	<16b72319-8023-471c-ba40-8025aa6d462e@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
	<1bf83a7e-f9eb-46ff-84fe-cf42d9608e71@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 26, 8:36?am, kj  wrote:
> In <1bf83a7e-f9eb-46ff-84fe-cf42d9608... at j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> Carl Banks  writes:
>
> >Yeah, it's a little surprising that you can't access class scope from
> >a function, but that has nothing to do with encapsulation.
>
> It does: it thwarts encapsulation. ?The helper function in my
> example is one that clearly rightfully belongs nowhere else than
> the class itself, i.e. encapsulated within the class. It is only
> this silly prohibition against recursive functions in a class
> statement that forces one to put it outside the class statement.

Oh well, I guess that sucks for you.


Carl Banks


From robin at reportlab.com  Wed Aug 26 12:20:35 2009
From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 17:20:35 +0100
Subject: ubuntu dist-packages
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<7fki3lF2kirnkU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
Message-ID: <4A9560D3.4000009@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>

Jorgen Grahn wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 12:46:13 +0200, Diez B. Roggisch
........
> Well, if you are thinking about Debian Linux, it's not as much
> "ripping out" as "splitting into a separate package with a non-obvious
> name". Annoying at times, but hardly an atrocity.
so where is the official place for user installed stuff on ubuntu/debian ie will 
there be dist-packages and site-packages.
-- 
Robin Becker


From robin at reportlab.com  Wed Aug 26 12:20:35 2009
From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 17:20:35 +0100
Subject: ubuntu dist-packages
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<7fki3lF2kirnkU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
Message-ID: <4A9560D3.4000009@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>

Jorgen Grahn wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 12:46:13 +0200, Diez B. Roggisch
........
> Well, if you are thinking about Debian Linux, it's not as much
> "ripping out" as "splitting into a separate package with a non-obvious
> name". Annoying at times, but hardly an atrocity.
so where is the official place for user installed stuff on ubuntu/debian ie will 
there be dist-packages and site-packages.
-- 
Robin Becker



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Aug 26 12:21:45 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 12:21:45 -0400
Subject: Python Processor
In-Reply-To: <7670c8130908260328l6982ef4etad802a755b85a44f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7670c8130908260328l6982ef4etad802a755b85a44f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

manish wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am also wondering about how to implement a soft core reconfigurable 
> processor in a FPGA
> which would directly execute the compiled python bytecode.
> 
> I am trying to understand the bytecode format but apart from 
> http://docs.python.org/library/dis.html
> there is hardly any documentation on the python bytecodes.

Contrary to the ancient and, I believe, obsolete text in the 
documentation, there is no 'python bytecode'. Dis is based on CPython 
bytecode. Jython uses Java bytecode. IronPython uses, I believe, 
Microsoft clr bytecode. Object code compilers do not use bytecode.

> Before going through the one of the existing VM implementations, i want 
> to know if there is there any informaition
> available which elaborates on the structure of the bytecodes. Like 
> details regarding co_names, co_cellvars,
> co_freevars, the concept of frames, global, local, objects, functions 
> etc with respect to the bytecode.

These are mostly version-specific Cpython implementation details.

tjr



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Wed Aug 26 12:42:24 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 26 Aug 2009 16:42:24 GMT
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> 
	<16b72319-8023-471c-ba40-8025aa6d462e@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
	<1bf83a7e-f9eb-46ff-84fe-cf42d9608e71@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <02a555f2$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:36:35 +0000, kj wrote:

> In <1bf83a7e-f9eb-46ff-84fe-cf42d9608e71 at j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
> Carl Banks  writes:
> 
>>Yeah, it's a little surprising that you can't access class scope from a
>>function, but that has nothing to do with encapsulation.
> 
> It does: it thwarts encapsulation.  The helper function in my example is
> one that clearly rightfully belongs nowhere else than the class itself,
> i.e. encapsulated within the class.

There's nothing "clearly" about it. 

This helper function doesn't reference the class, or any instance of the 
class. Why should it be encapsulated in the class? It's not *part* of the 
class, it shouldn't be *inside* the class.

Look at it this way: classes are made from building blocks. Just because 
a building block ends up in a class, doesn't mean the function that makes 
the building block has to be inside the class too.

It's an accident of Python's execution model that a single function call 
*sometimes* works as you expect inside the class statement:

class Demo:
    def f():
        return 2
    def g():
        return f()+1
    x = f()  # works
    y = g()  # fails


As you can see, the problem is not because of recursion, but because the 
class scope is not inserted into the function scope. As I said earlier, 
your problem isn't too little class encapsulation, but too much: the 
class scope doesn't leak into the function scope.

Python could, of course, behave the way you want, but it would lead to 
some odd interactions:

class Weird(object):
    x = 1
    def __init__(self):
        self.y = 2
    def test(self):
        print self.x  # refers to attribute x with value 1
        print x       # refers to attribute x with value 1
        print self.y  # refers to attribute y with value 2
        print y       # refers to global y

In existing Python, both x and y will refer to globals, because it's 
considered more important for all attribute access to be consistently 
explicit than to insert the class scope into the function scope. This 
isn't a design flaw, or a bug, it's a feature. Yes, it makes it hard for 
you to solve your problem the way you want to solve it, but it doesn't 
stop you from solving your problem. The module is encapsulation enough.



-- 
Steven


From cjw at ncf.ca  Wed Aug 26 12:49:18 2009
From: cjw at ncf.ca (Colin J. Williams)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 12:49:18 -0400
Subject: quantiles of a student distribution
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Pierre wrote:
> Hello...
> 
> Do you know how I can calculate the quantiles of a student
> distribution in pyhton ?
> 
> Thanks
You might look at: 
http://bonsai.ims.u-tokyo.ac.jp/~mdehoon/software/python/special.html

Colin W.


From szport at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 12:49:48 2009
From: szport at gmail.com (zaur)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 09:49:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Object's nesting scope
References: 
	<7fkqodF2llnghU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1ea2a98f-4035-4ec6-b5a9-06b21dd6f584@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On 26 ???, 17:13, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
> Whom am we to judge? Sure if you propose this, you have some usecases in
> mind - how about you present these

Ok. Here is a use case: object initialization.

For example,

person = Person():
  name = "john"
  age = 30
  address = Address():
     street = "Green Street"
     no = 12

vs.

person = Person()
person.name = "john"
person.age = 30
address = person.address = Address()
address.street = "Green Street"
address.no = 12

In this example any assignment is an equivalence of setting
attribute's address of the parent object.


From phily05 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 12:54:55 2009
From: phily05 at gmail.com (Phil)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 09:54:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python on the Web
References: 
	<4a94ef42$0$27774$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: 

Thanks to everybody. I believe I am understanding things better.

I have looked at the links that have been provided, although I have
seen most of them in the past month or so that I've been looking into
this stuff. I do agree with most of the things Armin stated in that
NIH post. I agree with everybody in this thread so far. If I wanted to
write an application, I would use an existing framework and wait for
it to be ported to 3.x. However, I do not have the need to write a web
application at this time, and creating blogs or other applications I
do not need for fun is getting old.

My reasoning for working on my own instead of following the 'NIH'
concept or contributing to an existing framework is because I have
experimented with many existing frameworks and I have figured out what
I like/dislike, and have envisioned my own design that I feel would
work potentially better for others, or at least newcomers. Things like
this are fun for me, and I do not mind the challenge. I don't want to
pollute the web with (sigh) 'another framework', but it would be fun
for me to write it and get some feedback. I would love for people like
you, Armin, and others who take a look at the various frameworks that
pop up seemingly every day, to look at my (hypothetical) framework and
just rip it apart with (constructive) criticism. That is just the way
I do things, whether the community agrees with it or not. The reason I
was asking about Python 3 on the web was just because I like some of
the changes that have been made, and would like to use it for my
framework. That is when I realized that I was absolutely clueless
about the details of how Python, or any language, works on the web.

Graham, regarding number 3 in your list of ways to host WSGI: I
haven't really looked into mod_wsgi at all, but basically it sounds
like the web server would be running this embedded module. That module
would then serve the function of both FCGI and the 'WSGI Server' in my
diagram? That actually sounds really neat. Unfortunately I missed this
because I've been hooked on lighttpd, as the minimalist I am.

Here are the things I am still confused with:

1) Why do I not want to consider running Python on the web with FCGI,
without WSGI? You said 'no' straight up, no questions asked. I would
imagine that there is a good reason of course, as you've been in this
field for a long time. I just feel more comfortable understanding why.
>From my understanding, the only real purpose of WSGI is to remain
independent of FCGI/SCGI/CGI/AJP (whatever that is) and the web server
it is run on. However, 99.9% of the discussion I see with Python on
the web is around FCGI. So for example, lets say everybody used FCGI.
All that would be left to deal with is web server independence. Now
this is what I don't get, I thought that FCGI itself was supposed to
be the protocol that deals with web server independence. Maybe I just
need to re-read entire WSGI specification to understand, along with
all the details of FCGI. There are just so many details regarding web
servers, FCGI, and WSGI that it is hard to absorb it all and see how
it works together. That is why I tried to create the diagram, but it
doesn't provide enough details. And those are the details I am
missing. I've been trying to find a simple diagram or explaination of
the process a request takes to make a response, from HTTP all the way
up to the application, to the the user.

2) In the development stack, the 'WSGI Server' seems to take on the
role of the web server (dealing with HTTP specification), skips FCGI,
and deals with the WSGI specification. Then, the 'WSGI Server' in the
production stack (eg. Flup, CherryPy, etc) only deals with FCGI and
WSGI specification, because the HTTP is already taken care of by the
web server?


From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 13:11:15 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 10:11:15 -0700
Subject: Object's nesting scope
In-Reply-To: <1ea2a98f-4035-4ec6-b5a9-06b21dd6f584@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<7fkqodF2llnghU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<1ea2a98f-4035-4ec6-b5a9-06b21dd6f584@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

> person = Person():
>   name = "john"
>   age = 30
>   address = Address():
>      street = "Green Street"
>      no = 12
>

Can you clarify what you mean? Would that define a Person class, and an  
Address class?

If you are expecting those classes to be already defined, please bear in  
mind that if you want, you can do this:

> > > class Person(object):
	def __init__(self, name='Nemo', age=0, address=None):
		self.name = name
		self.age = age
		self.address = address

> > > class Address(object):
	def __init__(self, street=None, no=None):
		self.street = street
		self.no = no
	
> > > otherperson = Person(
		     name = 'Bob',
		     age = 26,
		     address = Address(
			     street = 'Blue Street',
			     no = 1
			     )
		     )







On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 09:49:48 -0700, zaur  wrote:

> On 26 ???, 17:13, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
>> Whom am we to judge? Sure if you propose this, you have some usecases in
>> mind - how about you present these
>
> Ok. Here is a use case: object initialization.
>
> For example,
>
> person = Person():
>   name = "john"
>   age = 30
>   address = Address():
>      street = "Green Street"
>      no = 12
>
> vs.
>
> person = Person()
> person.name = "john"
> person.age = 30
> address = person.address = Address()
> address.street = "Green Street"
> address.no = 12
>
> In this example any assignment is an equivalence of setting
> attribute's address of the parent object.



-- 
Rami Chowdhury
"Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --  
Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)


From eckhardt at satorlaser.com  Wed Aug 26 13:17:22 2009
From: eckhardt at satorlaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 19:17:22 +0200
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<16b72319-8023-471c-ba40-8025aa6d462e@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<1bf83a7e-f9eb-46ff-84fe-cf42d9608e71@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <2a7gm6-9h.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

kj wrote:
> class Demo(object):
>     def fact_iter(n):
>         ret = 1
>         for i in range(1, n + 1):
>             ret *= i
>         return ret
> 
>     def fact_rec(n):
>         if n < 2:
>             return 1
>         else:
>             return n * fact_rec(n - 1)
> 
>     classvar1 = fact_iter(5)
>     classvar2 = fact_rec(5)
> 
> 
> In the initialization of classvar1, fact_iter is invoked without
> any problem even though the class is not yet created: no need to
> qualify it with the name of the class.  This is completely inconsistent
> with the requirement that fact_rec be so qualified when invoked
> within fact_rec.

Let me take a shot at explaining this, maybe it helps that I'm mostly a C++
guy....


Firstly, if Python sees a name, it looks up that name first in the local
scope and then in the global scope. This is very simple (especially
compared to C++ when adding ADL there...), but it is something most people
can live with. So, even inside a class function (static or member), you
have to qualify a function call like 'ClassName.function_name', because
neither is 'function_name' a local nor is it a global.

Secondly, and that is due to the very dynamic nature of Python's types, the
class doesn't exist until its definition is finished. Therefore, any
attempt (directly or indirectly) to access a class member will usually fail
before that time. The exception is that inside the class definition you can
access the members directly, because they are in the same scope (access to
locals). Note that the scope already seems to exist but that it is not yet
available under any name! Looking at your example, you can not
write 'classvar1 = Demo.fact_iter(42)', because the lookup of 'Demo' will
fail.

Now, what actually causes problems is that 'fact_rec' is not universally
accessible until class 'Demo' is fully defined, but you need this in order
to fully define it. Here comes a drawback of the dynamic nature of Python,
that the declaration phase (compiling) is not separate from the execution.

I fully agree that this case is rather vexing to my (and obviously your)
biased brain. I wouldn't call this a bug before fully understanding why
e.g. you can not access a class before its definition is finished. I think
someone mentioned one or two PEPs, which are the design documents that
explain Python including the rationale, I'd use that as a starting point.


Suggestion: someone mentioned that you should make the function a normal
function. You can mark it as private using an underscore as prefix. If you
want to make it foolproof, you could even delete ("del fact_rec") the
function after use. Other alternatives would be to put it into a separate
baseclass, use a local function as implementation or to add the class
attributes after defining the class. Neither of these provide the 'perfect'
encapsulation of things in a class that you might be used to from e.g.
Java, but they have proven to be very useful nonetheless.


Uli

-- 
Sator Laser GmbH
Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Thorsten F?cking, Amtsgericht Hamburg HR B62 932



From gert.cuykens at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 13:28:23 2009
From: gert.cuykens at gmail.com (gert)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 10:28:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How does the file.seek() work ?
References: <2feaaf6c-d723-4843-a9e5-271d00187180@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	
	<1532ff09-f892-44c8-8206-10b3c2d16050@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <40093737-2ff1-4527-a2ea-a016ee526463@k30g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 26, 12:46?am, Graham Dumpleton 
wrote:
> On Aug 25, 5:37?am, Tim Chase  wrote:
>
> > > I want the file pointer set to 100 and overwrite everything from there
> > [snip]
> > > def application(environ, response):
> > > ? ? query=os.path.join(os.path.dirname(__file__),'teeeeeeeeeemp')
> > > ? ? range=environ.get('HTTP_RANGE','bytes=0-').replace
> > > ('bytes=','').split(',')
> > > ? ? offset=[]
> > > ? ? for r in range: offset.append(r.split('-'))
> > > ? ? with open(query,'w+') as f:
> > > ? ? ? ? ?f.seek(int(offset[0][0]))
> > > ? ? ? ? ?while True:
> > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?chunk=environ['wsgi.input'].read(8192).decode('latin1')
> > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?if not chunk: break
> > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?f.write(chunk)
> > > ? ? f=open(query)
> > > ? ? l=str(os.fstat(f.fileno()).st_size)
> > > ? ? response('200 OK', [('Content-Type', 'text/plain'), ('Content-
> > > Length', str(len(l)))])
> > > ? ? return [l]
>
> > A couple items of note:
>
> > - you don't open the file in binary mode -- seek is more reliable
> > in binary mode :)
>
> If my memory is right, if file is opened in binary mode, also wouldn't
> need to be decoding the WSGI input stream as latin-1 to get a string.
> Instead can just deal with bytes and write bytes to file.
>
> Graham
>
> > - if you want to lop off the rest of the file, use f.truncate()
>
> > An example:
>
> > # create the initial file
> > ?>>> f = file('zzz.zzz', 'wb+')
> > ?>>> f.write('abcdefghijklmnop')
> > ?>>> f.close()
>
> > ?>>> f = file('zzz.zzz', 'ab+')
> > ?>>> f.read() # show the existing content
> > 'abcdefghijklmnop'
> > ?>>> f.seek(5) # seek to the desired offset
> > ?>>> f.truncate() # throw away everything after here
> > ?>>> f.write('zyx') # write the new data at pos=5
> > ?>>> f.close()
>
> > # demonstrate that it worked
> > ?>>> f = file('zzz.zzz', 'rb')
> > ?>>> f.read()
> > 'abcdezyx'
> > ?>>> f.close()
>
> > > also why must I open the file a second time to know how big it is ?
>
> > Likely the output has been buffered. ?You can try using
>
> > ? ?f.flush() # write all the data to the disk first
> > ? ?size = os.fstat(f.fileno()).st_size
>
> > which seems to do the trick for me.
> > -tkc
>

Works thanks

curl -C 10 -T upload2.wsgi http://192.168.2.17/appwsgi/wsgi/upload2.wsgi
--header "Transfer-Encoding: chunked" -v

import os

def application(environ, response):
    #query=environ.get['QUERY_STRING']
    #print (query, file=environ['wsgi.errors'])
    query=os.path.join(os.path.dirname(__file__),'teeeeeeeeeemp')
    range=environ.get('HTTP_CONTENT_RANGE','bytes 0-').replace('bytes
','').split('/')[0].split(',')
    offset=[]
    for r in range: offset.append(r.split('-'))
    with open(query,'rb+') as f:
         f.seek(int(offset[0][0]))
         if environ['REQUEST_METHOD']=='PUT':
             f.truncate()
             while True:
                 chunk=environ['wsgi.input'].read(8192)
                 if not chunk: break
                 f.write(chunk)
         f.flush()
         l=str(os.fstat(f.fileno()).st_size)
    response('200 OK', [('Content-Type', 'text/plain'), ('Content-
Length', str(len(l)))])
    return [l]





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Aug 26 13:52:36 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 13:52:36 -0400
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
Message-ID: 

kj wrote:
> In <7figv3F2m3p0dU1 at mid.uni-berlin.de> "Diez B. Roggisch"  writes:
> 
>> Classes are not scopes.

Classes are objects.  In particular, they are (by default) instances of 
class 'type'. Unless 'scopes' were instances of some other metaclass, 
the statement has to be true. I understand 'scope' as referring to a 
section of code, as opposed to a runtime object.

Class statements introduce a new local namespace used to define the 
class.  Whether one considers that as introducing a new 'scope' depends, 
I suppose, on one's exact definition of scope.

> This looks to me like a major wart, on two counts.

It is a 'wart' that a Python object is not a 'scope', whatever that is 
to you? I have trouble comprehending that claim.

> First, one of the goals of OO is encapsulation, not only at the
> level of instances, but also at the level of classes.  Your comment
> suggests that Python does not fully support class-level encapsulation.

I really do not see how your claim follows from the comment. The irony 
of your 'two counts' is that the example of 'count 2' fails precisely 
because of the encapsulation that you claim does not exist as 'count 1'.

> Second, my example shows that Python puts some peculiar restrictions
> on recursion.

I claim it does not. Name-based recursion inherently requires that a 
function be able to access itself by name at the time it is called. This 
can be a bit tricky, especially in a language with dynamic rather than 
static name binding and resolution, as it requires that code within the 
function be able to access a scope outside itself in which the function 
name is defined. In other words, it requires that function code *not* be 
completely encapsulated. It also require that the appropriate name be 
used when there is one. Neither of these is a 'peculiar restriction' 
imposed by Python.

> class Demo(object):
>     def fact_rec(n):
>         if n < 2:
>             return 1
>         else:
>             return n * fact_rec(n - 1)

This function is just a function. It is not an instance method. It is 
not even a class method. It does not belong here and should not be here.

If you insist on putting it where it does not belong, then you have to 
call it by a name that works.  If you only call it after the class 
statement has finished, then 'Demo.fact_rec' works, as I believe someone 
else pointed out.

If you want to call the function during class creation, before (in this 
case) Demo exists, then binding it to a local name works. With 3.1

class Demo:
    def f1(n):
       if n < 2: return 1
       else:     return n * Demo.f1(n - 1)

    def f2(n,f):
       if n < 2: return 1
       else:     return n * f(n - 1, f)

    cvar = f2(5, f2)

print(Demo.f1(5), Demo.cvar, Demo.f2(5,Demo.f2))

# prints
 >>>
120 120 120

> Recursive functions should be OK wherever functions are OK.

Iteration can and has been viewed as within-frame recursion. When 
iterative rather than recursive syntax is used, the naming issue is
avoided.

> Is there any good reason (from the point of view of Python's overall
> design) for not fixing this?

After reading the above, what, if anything, do you think still needs to 
be fixed?

Before 2.2, Python functions were more encapsulated than they are today 
in that they could only access local and global namespaces but not outer 
function namespaces.  It would be possible to further de-encapsulate 
them by giving them direct access to lexically surrounding class 
namespaces, but this would increase the problem of name clashes without 
solving any real problems in proper Python code. It could also break the 
intentional design principle that function code should mean the same 
thing whether placed within or without a class statement. This principle 
allows functions to be added to existing classes as attributes and work 
as methods that same as if they had been defined with the class.

Terry Jan Reedy



From mensanator at aol.com  Wed Aug 26 13:58:12 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 10:58:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
References:  
	 
	
	
	
	<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com> 
	
	
	
	
	<02a31f91$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<44bcb727-0885-4d4f-9c11-ca60a39b0d91@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<02a3e1e2$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<02a53d89$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <8d25833e-8008-42e9-ad24-10ddd4f6cbef@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 26, 9:58?am, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 11:45:28 -0700, Mensanator wrote:
> > On Aug 25, 9:14?am, Steven D'Aprano  > cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> >> On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:01:38 -0700, Mensanator wrote:
> >> >> If you want your data file to have values entered in hex, or oct, or
> >> >> even unary (1=one, 11=two, 111=three, 1111=four...) you can.
>
> >> > Unary? I think you'll find that Standard Positional Number Systems
> >> > are not defined for radix 1.
>
> >> Of course not. But unary isn't a positional number system. It's a tally
> >> system, like my example above shows. Roman numerals are another tally
> >> system. Like Roman numerals, the disadvantages of unary are that you
> >> can't represent negative numbers, zero, or fractions, and anything but
> >> addition and subtraction is difficult. But if you want to use it,
> >> perhaps out of a sense of sadism towards your users, it's easy:
> [...]
> > But without insignificant leading 0's, I fail to see the relevance of
> > unary to this discussion.
>
> It was just an example of how you can use numeric data in any format, no
> matter how obscure, weird or difficult, you can use it by passing it
> through an appropriate converter. You don't need compiler support for
> user-supplied data, you just write your own function.

Ok, no problem with that.

>
> As for insignificant leading zeroes, such a thing is meaningless in a
> base-1 tally system. Zero is the absence of a tally mark.
>
> > And what would you call a tally system of
> > radix 2? Certainly not binary.
>
> "Radix" isn't the correct term, because radix doesn't apply to tally
> counting systems. I'd accept "base 2", in the sense that the tally is
> based on two different marks.

I thought the two were equivalent, but maybe I'm wrong. Anyway, that's
a minor quibble.

> We do something similar when we mark four
> tally lines, then for five we mark a diagonal line through the previous
> four. So by analogy a base-2 tally could go:
>
> / ? ? one
> X ? ? two
> X/ ? ?three
> XX ? ?four
> XX/ ? five
> XXX ? six
> XXX/ ?seven

Sure, as long as you're consistent, there's no problem.

>
> But I certainly wouldn't call it "binary", for fear of confusion with
> radix-2 binary.

That's my point. Since the common usage of "binary" is for
Standard Positional Number System of Radix 2, it follows
that "unary" is the common usage for Standard Positional
Number System of Radix 1. That's VERY confusing since such
a system is undefined. Remember, common usage does not
necessarily properly define things. Saying simply "unary"
sounds like you're extending common usage beyond its proper
boundaries.

> Possibly binary-tally, for lack of a better term.

Then possibly unary-tally would be better than unary.
Tally systems being much less common require a less
common terminology to avoid confusion.

>
> --
> Steven



From begin.middle.end at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 14:10:27 2009
From: begin.middle.end at gmail.com (Mahi Haile)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 14:10:27 -0400
Subject: SimpleXMLRPCServer timeout issue
Message-ID: <83d424980908261110m1f70b326ua4b7668c8bd173a4@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,
I have an XML-RPC server running that is using SimpleXMLRPCServer, and I am
trying to send a relatively large file on a poor connection [simulated low
bandwidth, high latency]. The file is simply the return value of a function
call available on the server.
However, sometime in to the transfer, I get a timeout, seemingly regardless
of what I do. The server is initiated as follows:

s = SimpleXMLRPCServer((HOST, PORT), requestHandler = RequestHandler)
s.timeout = 100000  #I tried setting this to None, and also a higher number

And the exception I get is:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/python2.5/SocketServer.py", line 464, in process_request_thread
    self.finish_request(request, client_address)
  File "/python2.5/SocketServer.py", line 254, in finish_request
    self.RequestHandlerClass(request, client_address, self)
  File "/python2.5/SocketServer.py", line 522, in __init__
    self.handle()
  File "/python2.5/BaseHTTPServer.py", line 316, in handle
    self.handle_one_request()
  File "python2.5/BaseHTTPServer.py", line 310, in handle_one_request
    method()
  File "/python2.5/SimpleXMLRPCServer.py", line 481, in do_POST
    self.wfile.write(response)
  File "/python2.5/socket.py", line 262, in write
    self.flush()
  File "/python2.5/socket.py", line 249, in flush
    self._sock.sendall(buffer)
timeout: timed out

Googling resulted in similar questions asked in the CherryPy forums, and the
general suggestions seem to be to use a streaming transfer, using yield
rather than return.
Do you know how I go about solving when using the SimpleXMLRPCServer? For
what it is worth, I am running the server on Mac OS X.

Thank you,
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From diesch at spamfence.net  Wed Aug 26 14:37:30 2009
From: diesch at spamfence.net (Florian Diesch)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 20:37:30 +0200
Subject: ubuntu dist-packages
References: 
Message-ID: 

Robin Becker  writes:

> I was surprised a couple of days ago when trying to assist a colleage
> with his python setup on a ubuntu 9.04 system.
>
> We built our c-extensions and manually copied them into place, but
> site-packages wasn't there. It seems that ubuntu now wants stuff to go
> into lib/python2.6/dist-packages.
>
> What is the relation between dist-packages/site-packages if any? Is
> this just a name change or is there some other problem being
> addressed?
>
> For developers is it best just to create one's own private
> installations from the original tarballs?

>From /usr/lib/python2.6/site.py:

,----
| For Debian and derivatives, this sys.path is augmented with directories
| for packages distributed within the distribution. Local addons go
| into /usr/local/lib/python/dist-packages, Debian addons
| install into /usr/{lib,share}/python/dist-packages.
| /usr/lib/python/site-packages is not used.
`----




   Florian
-- 



From szport at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 14:57:54 2009
From: szport at gmail.com (zaur)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 11:57:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Object's nesting scope
References: 
	<7fkqodF2llnghU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<1ea2a98f-4035-4ec6-b5a9-06b21dd6f584@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On 26 ???, 21:11, "Rami Chowdhury"  wrote:
> > person = Person():
> > ? name = "john"
> > ? age = 30
> > ? address = Address():
> > ? ? ?street = "Green Street"
> > ? ? ?no = 12
>
> Can you clarify what you mean? Would that define a Person class, and an ?
> Address class?
I suppose that someone already define classes Person ans Address.
For example, in this stupid way in a foreign module:

class Person(object):
   pass

class Address(object):
   pass

and the following statements

person = Person():
   name = "john"
   age = 30
   address = Address():
      street = "Green Street"
      no = 12

are constructing an instance as follows:

person = Person()
person.name = "john"
person.age = 30
address = person.address = Address()
address.street = "Green Street"
address.no = 12

> If you are expecting those classes to be already defined, please bear in ?
> mind that if you want, you can do this:
>
> > > > class Person(object):
>
> ? ? ? ? def __init__(self, name='Nemo', age=0, address=None):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? self.name = name
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? self.age = age
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? self.address = address
>
> > > > class Address(object):
>
> ? ? ? ? def __init__(self, street=None, no=None):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? self.street = street
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? self.no = no
>
> > > > otherperson = Person(
>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?name = 'Bob',
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?age = 26,
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?address = Address(
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?street = 'Blue Street',
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?no = 1
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?)
>
Yes, that's right. I aware about this way of instance initialization.


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Wed Aug 26 15:00:02 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 12:00:02 -0700
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A958632.9020301@stoneleaf.us>

kj wrote:
> 
> 
> I have many years of programming experience, and a few languages,
> under my belt, but still Python scoping rules remain mysterious to
> me.  (In fact, Python's scoping behavior is the main reason I gave
> up several earlier attempts to learn Python.)
> 
> Here's a toy example illustrating what I mean.  It's a simplification
> of a real-life coding situation, in which I need to initialize a
> "private" class variable by using a recursive helper function.
> 
> class Demo(object):
>     def fact(n):
>         if n < 2:
>             return 1
>         else:
>             return n * fact(n - 1)
> 
>     _classvar = fact(5)

As has been pretty thoroughly discussed, the issue here is not 
recursion, but name lookup.

Going back through the archives I found Arnaud's post with this decorator:

def bindfunc(f):
     def boundf(*args, **kwargs):
         return f(boundf, *args, **kwargs)
     return boundf

If you use it on your fact function like so...

class Demo(object):
     @bindfunc
     def fact(recurse, n)	# recurse can be any name you like
         if n < 2:
             return 1
         else:
             return n * recurse(n-1)
     _classvar = fact(5)
     del fact			# no longer needed, and won't work
				# once class is created

This should do as you want.

As a side note, if you're going to bother asking questions on this list, 
you really should try to understand the answers.  I won't gripe at you 
too much, though, 'cause I learned a lot from the many responses given 
due to your refusal to do so.  ;-)

~Ethan~


From evaned at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 15:12:59 2009
From: evaned at gmail.com (Evan Driscoll)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 12:12:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Context manager to temporarily change the variable of a register 
	[aka write swap(a,b)]
References: <7c171ce3-56a7-482f-addd-c6c86441cba7@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<7c2c560f-d54c-492c-a847-e8ab079faea0@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> 
	<42b95155-db9d-4865-9039-c11ba556f3b4@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 26, 10:15?am, Carl Banks  wrote:
> Well, it wouldn't be a "can I rebind a variable using a with-
> statement" thread if someone didn't post a solution that they thought
> worked, but didn't test it on local variables.

I'm not going to deny it was pretty stupid... though in my defense,
I'm new at more that trivial Python coding and don't have the Python
scoping rules and such ingrained in my mind yet. :-)

Evan



From no.email at please.post  Wed Aug 26 15:20:24 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 19:20:24 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	<02a54597$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

In <02a54597$0$20629$c3e8da3 at news.astraweb.com> Steven D'Aprano  writes:

>http://docs.python.org/reference/executionmodel.html

>It is also discussed in the PEP introducing nested scopes to Python:

>http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0227/

>It's even eluded to in the tutorial:

>http://docs.python.org/tutorial/classes.html

Thanks!

kynn



From nagle at animats.com  Wed Aug 26 15:30:05 2009
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 12:30:05 -0700
Subject: Python Processor
In-Reply-To: 
References: <7670c8130908260328l6982ef4etad802a755b85a44f@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <4a958c1b$0$1600$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

Terry Reedy wrote:
> manish wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am also wondering about how to implement a soft core reconfigurable 
>> processor in a FPGA
>> which would directly execute the compiled python bytecode.

   It probably wouldn't help much.  CPython's performance problems
come from excessive dictionary lookups, not from instruction decode.

				John Nagle


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 15:30:08 2009
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 14:30:08 -0500
Subject: quantiles of a student distribution
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-26 11:49 AM, Colin J. Williams wrote:
> Pierre wrote:
>> Hello...
>>
>> Do you know how I can calculate the quantiles of a student
>> distribution in pyhton ?
>>
>> Thanks
> You might look at:
> http://bonsai.ims.u-tokyo.ac.jp/~mdehoon/software/python/special.html

[Please pardon the piggybacking. I have not gotten the original, yet.]

Using scipy:

In [1]: from scipy import stats

In [2]: import numpy as np

In [3]: x = np.linspace(-1.0, 1.0, 21)

In [4]: x
Out[4]:
array([-1. , -0.9, -0.8, -0.7, -0.6, -0.5, -0.4, -0.3, -0.2, -0.1,  0. ,
         0.1,  0.2,  0.3,  0.4,  0.5,  0.6,  0.7,  0.8,  0.9,  1. ])

In [5]: ndof = 10

In [6]: stats.t.cdf(x, ndof)
Out[6]:
array([ 0.17044657,  0.19463963,  0.22115021,  0.24994379,  0.28092759,
         0.3139468 ,  0.3487837 ,  0.3851603 ,  0.4227446 ,  0.46116036,
         0.5       ,  0.53883964,  0.5772554 ,  0.6148397 ,  0.6512163 ,
         0.6860532 ,  0.71907241,  0.75005621,  0.77884979,  0.80536037,
         0.82955343])


-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From sridharr at activestate.com  Wed Aug 26 15:35:00 2009
From: sridharr at activestate.com (Sridhar Ratnakumar)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 12:35:00 -0700
Subject: ANN: ActivePython 3.1.1.2 is now available
Message-ID: 

I'm happy to announce that ActivePython 3.1.1.2 is now available for
download from:

       http://www.activestate.com/activepython/python3/

This is a patch release that updates ActivePython to core Python 3.1.1
We recommend that you try 2.6 version first. See the release notes for
full details:

       http://docs.activestate.com/activepython/3.1/relnotes.html


What is ActivePython?
---------------------

ActivePython is ActiveState's binary distribution of Python. Builds
for Windows, Mac OS X, Linux, HP-UX and AIX are made freely available.

ActivePython includes the Python core and the many core extensions:
zlib and bzip2 for data compression, the Berkeley DB (bsddb) and
SQLite (sqlite3) database libraries, OpenSSL bindings for HTTPS
support, the Tix GUI widgets for Tkinter, ElementTree for XML
processing, ctypes (on supported platforms) for low-level library
access, and others. The Windows distribution ships with PyWin32 -- a
suite of Windows tools developed by Mark Hammond, including bindings
to the Win32 API and Windows COM. See this page for full details:

       http://docs.activestate.com/activepython/3.1/whatsincluded.html

As well, ActivePython ships with a wealth of documentation for both
new and experienced Python programmers. In addition to the core Python
docs, ActivePython includes the "What's New in Python" series, "Dive
into Python", the Python FAQs & HOWTOs, and the Python Enhancement
Proposals (PEPs).

An online version of the docs can be found here:

       http://docs.activestate.com/activepython/

We would welcome any and all feedback to:

       ActivePython-feedback at activestate.com

Please file bugs against ActivePython at:

       http://bugs.activestate.com/query.cgi?set_product=ActivePython


On what platforms does ActivePython run?
----------------------------------------

ActivePython includes installers for the following platforms:

- Windows/x86
- Windows/x64 (aka "AMD64")
- Mac OS X
- Linux/x86
- Linux/x86_64 (aka "AMD64")
- Solaris/SPARC
- Solaris/x86
- HP-UX/PA-RISC
- AIX/PowerPC
- AIX/PowerPC64


Extra Bits
----------

ActivePython releases also include the following:

- ActivePythonXY.chm: An MS compiled help collection of the full
     ActivePython documentation set. Linux users of applications such as
     xCHM might find this useful. This package is installed by default on
     Windows.

Extra bits are available from:

       http://downloads.activestate.com/ActivePython/etc/
	

Thanks, and enjoy!

The Python Team

--
Sridhar Ratnakumar
sridharr at activestate.com


From davea at ieee.org  Wed Aug 26 15:50:46 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:50:46 -0400
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: <90b1ff07-19cf-4eeb-abc5-80445da9f790@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: 	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
		
	<90b1ff07-19cf-4eeb-abc5-80445da9f790@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A959216.3080507@ieee.org>

Carl Banks wrote:
> On Aug 26, 8:13 am, Dave Angel  wrote:
>   
>> You can probably work around this by replacing the staticmethod
>> decorator with an equivalent function call:.
>>
>> class Demo9(object):
>>     def fact(n):
>>         if n < 2:
>>             return 1
>>         else:
>>             return n * Demo.fact(n - 1)
>>
>>     _classvar =act(5)
>>     fact =taticmethod(fact)
>>
>> print Demo9._classvar
>> xx =emo9()
>> print xx.fact(6)
>> print Demo9.fact(8)
>>     
>
> This won't work normally.  It only worked for you because you made a
> typo.
>
>
> Carl Banks
>
>   
Sorry about the typo.  I was trying out several different versions of 
the class in the same module, and forgot to include to change Demo to 
Demo9 in the recursive call.

I didn't like that approach anyway, as it smacked of taking advantage of 
some implementation accident.  The other approaches are more 
straightforward.


DaveA


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Aug 26 15:56:54 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 20:56:54 +0100
Subject: Object's nesting scope
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<7fkqodF2llnghU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>	<1ea2a98f-4035-4ec6-b5a9-06b21dd6f584@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>	
	
Message-ID: <4A959386.6060809@mrabarnett.plus.com>

zaur wrote:
> On 26 ???, 21:11, "Rami Chowdhury"  wrote:
>>> person = Person():
>>>   name = "john"
>>>   age = 30
>>>   address = Address():
>>>      street = "Green Street"
>>>      no = 12
>> Can you clarify what you mean? Would that define a Person class, and an  
>> Address class?
> I suppose that someone already define classes Person ans Address.
> For example, in this stupid way in a foreign module:
> 
> class Person(object):
>    pass
> 
> class Address(object):
>    pass
> 
> and the following statements
> 
> person = Person():
>    name = "john"
>    age = 30
>    address = Address():
>       street = "Green Street"
>       no = 12
> 
> are constructing an instance as follows:
> 
> person = Person()
> person.name = "john"
> person.age = 30
> address = person.address = Address()
> address.street = "Green Street"
> address.no = 12
> 
[snip]

Create factory functions:

def new_address(**kwargs):
     address = Address()
     address.__dict__.update(kwargs)
     return address

def new_person(**kwargs):
     person = Person()
     person.__dict__.update(kwargs)
     return person

person = new_person(name="john", age=30, 
address=new_address(street="Green Street", no=12))



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Aug 26 16:03:45 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 21:03:45 +0100
Subject: pygtk - What is the best way to change the mouse pointer
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A959521.8020505@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Ido Levy wrote:
> Hello All,
> 
> I am writing a dialog which one of its widget is a gtk.ComboBoxEntry ( 
> let's assume widget in the example below is its instance )
> When the user select one of the values from the gtk.ComboBoxEntry I need 
> to run some calculations that takes a few seconds.
> In order to reflect calculation time to the user I want to switch the 
> mouse pointer to an hour glass and back to arrow what it finish the 
> calculation.
> 
> I use the following code but it doesn't seems to work in a deterministic 
> way. From time to time it skips the last line and keep the mouse pointer 
> as an hour glass.
> 
>         watch = gtk.gdk.Cursor(gtk.gdk.WATCH)
>         widget.window.set_cursor(watch)
> 
>         calculation code
> 
>         widget.window.set_cursor(None)
> 
> I would appreciate your advice on the right way to implement this.
> 
Could the calculation code be raising an exception? Try adding some
logging to see whether the last lien is actually being called. You could
also use a try...finally... block to ensure that the last line is
called:

     watch = gtk.gdk.Cursor(gtk.gdk.WATCH)
     widget.window.set_cursor(watch)
     try:
         calculation code
     finally:
         widget.window.set_cursor(None)



From find.mig at paa.google  Wed Aug 26 16:06:01 2009
From: find.mig at paa.google (Esben von Buchwald)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 22:06:01 +0200
Subject: Protecting against callbacks queuing up?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4a91db65$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>		<4a93e575$0$298$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
	
Message-ID: <4a9595ca$0$300$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>

Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:
>> would that be usable?
> Probably
>> If so, how?
> 
> This is a guess, for your device,  but I suspect
> something along these lines:
> 
> t = Ao_timer()
> 
> cb = t.after(100,thing_that_does_the_work(with_its_arguments))
> 
> Lots of assumptions here - the 100 should give you a tenth of a second...
> Don't know what the arguments look like, and if you need to pass an instance 
> (like self) - that would depend on where you are calling it from.
> 
> Play and see :-)
> 
> You should also be able to cancel the callback like this:
> 
> t.cancel(cb)
> 
> If you do it before the time out
> 
> - Hendrik
> 

I don't really get it...

I can see that I should put a t.after(...) around the function that does 
the work, when calling it. That delays each call for the given period. I 
just tried it out, the console keeps saying
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "c:\resource\python25\python25.zip\sensorfw.py", line 499, in 
data_cb
   File "c:\resource\python25\python25.zip\sensorfw.py", line 160, in 
custom_cb
   File "e:\python\r3s_contextdata.py", line 79, in acc_filter
     self.acc_callback()
   File "e:\python\r3s_contextdata.py", line 85, in acc_callback
     self.doCallback()
   File "e:\python\r3s_contextdata.py", line 47, in doCallback
     self.at.after(0.05,self.data_callback)
RuntimeError: Timer pending - cancel first

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

It seems like i should cancel the current counting timer, when a new 
call comes in - but how to determine when to cancel etc?

I'm kind of new to all this async python stuff.


From find.mig at paa.google  Wed Aug 26 16:07:25 2009
From: find.mig at paa.google (Esben von Buchwald)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 22:07:25 +0200
Subject: Protecting against callbacks queuing up?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4a91db65$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>		<4a92b290$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>		<4a93e575$0$298$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
	
Message-ID: <4a95961d$0$300$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:21:16 +0200, Esben von Buchwald
>  declaimed the following in
> gmane.comp.python.general:
> 
>> This is how the accelerometer is accessed
>> http://pys60.garage.maemo.org/doc/s60/node59.html
>>
>> I found this called "after"...
>> http://pys60.garage.maemo.org/doc/s60/node12.html
>>
>> would that be usable?

> 
> 	Based on the documentation... I'd suggest...
> 
> 	def doCallback(self):
> 		self.accelerometer.stop_listening()
> 		self.data_callback()
> 		self.accelerometer.start_listening()
> 
> with appropriate changes to whatever reference you use for the
> accelerometer would solve the problem... IE, when the callback is
> triggered, you STOP the accelerometer action, compute results, and then
> restart the accelerometer..

I just tried that - it made the application lock up, leaving the sensors 
unusable until next reboot of the phone.

I don't think these start/stop calls are supposed to be called as often 
as it does the callback...


From no.email at please.post  Wed Aug 26 16:11:02 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 20:11:02 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

In  Ethan Furman  writes:

>Going back through the archives I found Arnaud's post with this decorator:

>def bindfunc(f):
>     def boundf(*args, **kwargs):
>         return f(boundf, *args, **kwargs)
>     return boundf

>If you use it on your fact function like so...

>class Demo(object):
>     @bindfunc
>     def fact(recurse, n)	# recurse can be any name you like
>         if n < 2:
>             return 1
>         else:
>             return n * recurse(n-1)
>     _classvar = fact(5)
>     del fact			# no longer needed, and won't work
>				# once class is created

>This should do as you want.

Thanks, this is instructive.

>As a side note, if you're going to bother asking questions on this list, 
>you really should try to understand the answers.

I think I understand the answers well enough.  What I *really*
don't understand is why this particular "feature" of Python (i.e.
that functions defined within a class statement are forbidden from
"seeing" other identifiers defined within the class statement) is
generally considered to be perfectly OK.  IMO it's a bizarre,
inexplicable blindspot (which, among other things, gives rise to
a certain worry about what other similar craziness lurks under
Python's image of rationality).  I have never seen even a half-hearted
justification, from a language design point of view, for why this
particular "feature" is worth having.  Maybe some day the BDFL will
deign to give one.

kynn


From no.email at please.post  Wed Aug 26 16:16:54 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 20:16:54 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: 

In <7figv3F2m3p0dU1 at mid.uni-berlin.de> "Diez B. Roggisch"  writes:

>But if you insist on the above methodology, you can do this:

>class Demo(object):

>    def fact(n):
>        def inner(n):
>            if n < 2:
>                return 1
>            else:
>                return n * inner(n - 1)
>        return inner(n)

>    _classvar = fact(5)

>This makes inner a *local* variable, which is found.

Thanks for this.  I think this is the most straightforward workaround.

kynn


From no.email at please.post  Wed Aug 26 16:35:28 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 20:35:28 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<16b72319-8023-471c-ba40-8025aa6d462e@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<1bf83a7e-f9eb-46ff-84fe-cf42d9608e71@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	
	<2a7gm6-9h.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: 

In <2a7gm6-9h.ln1 at satorlaser.homedns.org> Ulrich Eckhardt  writes:

>kj wrote:
>> class Demo(object):
>>     def fact_iter(n):
>>         ret = 1
>>         for i in range(1, n + 1):
>>             ret *= i
>>         return ret
>> 
>>     def fact_rec(n):
>>         if n < 2:
>>             return 1
>>         else:
>>             return n * fact_rec(n - 1)
>> 
>>     classvar1 = fact_iter(5)
>>     classvar2 = fact_rec(5)
>> 
>> 
>> In the initialization of classvar1, fact_iter is invoked without
>> any problem even though the class is not yet created: no need to
>> qualify it with the name of the class.  This is completely inconsistent
>> with the requirement that fact_rec be so qualified when invoked
>> within fact_rec.

>Let me take a shot at explaining this, maybe it helps that I'm mostly a C++
>guy....

Thanks for your reply.

>I fully agree that this case is rather vexing to my (and obviously your)
>biased brain. I wouldn't call this a bug before fully understanding why
>e.g. you can not access a class before its definition is finished.

I understand this, what I don't understand is why do it this way.
I've been trying to understand this particular design point for
*literally* years.

>I think
>someone mentioned one or two PEPs, which are the design documents that
>explain Python including the rationale, I'd use that as a starting point.

I'm reading PEP 227 now, suggested by Steven D'Aprano.  In it I
find statements like the following alert: 

    (Note: If a region is contained within a class definition, the
    name bindings that occur in the class block are not visible to
    enclosed functions.)

I've seen this before, but never an explanation for why having this
restriction.  It's just one of life's mysteries.  (Incidentally,
the fact that the author of PEP 227 felt it necessary to add that
parenthetical remark suggests that the expectation it warns against
is not so crazy after all.)

But I'm still not done with PEP 227.  Maybe I'll see the light by
the time I'm done.

kynn


From grahn+nntp at snipabacken.se  Wed Aug 26 16:38:15 2009
From: grahn+nntp at snipabacken.se (Jorgen Grahn)
Date: 26 Aug 2009 20:38:15 GMT
Subject: ubuntu dist-packages
References: 
	<7fki3lF2kirnkU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 17:20:35 +0100, Robin Becker  wrote:
> Jorgen Grahn wrote:
>> On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 12:46:13 +0200, Diez B. Roggisch
> ........
>> Well, if you are thinking about Debian Linux, it's not as much
>> "ripping out" as "splitting into a separate package with a non-obvious
>> name". Annoying at times, but hardly an atrocity.

> so where is the official place for user installed stuff on
> ubuntu/debian ie will 
> there be dist-packages and site-packages.

I don't know, but I know Debian has a group of people working out how
to package Python and software written in Python.  Those guys have a
home page somewhere at debian.org -- there should be information
there, and/or under /usr/share/doc/python* on your system.

Another answer is "let distutils do its job and do not worry", but
sometimes you need to know the rules and the reasons ...

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn    O  o   .


From dullrich at sprynet.com  Wed Aug 26 16:47:23 2009
From: dullrich at sprynet.com (David C Ullrich)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:47:23 -0500
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
References: 
	<7a9c25c20908240849p283cb70o50f374a4f8c867b@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<81ac68ae-c7fc-4caa-a04f-f358ffb78864@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 22:22:20 -0700, sturlamolden wrote:

> On 25 Aug, 05:56, Peter Decker  wrote:
> 
>> I use the Dabo Class Designer to visually design my forms. So what's
>> you're point? ?:)
> 
> Nothing, except lobbying for wxFormBuilder for anyone who still doesn't
> know of it. :)

That's great. But do you know of anything I can use as a
visual form design tool in wxPython?



From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Wed Aug 26 16:48:01 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 22:48:01 +0200
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

26-08-2009 o 09:03:27 Ulrich Eckhardt  wrote:

> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>> class Color:
>>     def __init__(self, r, g,b):
>>           pass
>>     BLACK = Color(0,0,0)
>>
>> It make sens from a design point of view to put BLACK in the Color
>> namespace. But I don't think it's possible with python.
>
> class Color:
>     ...
>
> setattrib(Color, "BLACK", Color(0,0,0))

Or simpler:

     class Color:
         ...

     Color.BLACK = Color(...)

Then
(Color.BLACK is Color.BLACK.BLACK.BLACK.BLACK) == True
:-)

*j

PS. Obviously, that's nothing special (there is no problem with
creating such "recursive" references in Python).

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From cripto at ecn.org  Wed Aug 26 16:56:16 2009
From: cripto at ecn.org (Anonymous)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 22:56:16 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: print() and unicode strings (python 3.1)
Message-ID: <20090826205616.2B9231A7B03@www.ecn.org>

Have you considered including an encoding line at the top of your file, as described in PEP 0263:
http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0263/

I just ran into a similar error, but it went away when I included 
# coding: utf-8
as the first line in my file. 



From kyrie at uh.cu  Wed Aug 26 17:00:11 2009
From: kyrie at uh.cu (Luis Zarrabeitia)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 17:00:11 -0400
Subject: Confessions of a Python fanboy
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<200907301757.48761.kyrie@uh.cu>
	
Message-ID: <200908261700.12060.kyrie@uh.cu>

On Friday 31 July 2009 04:08:33 am Masklinn wrote:
> On 30 Jul 2009, at 23:57 , Luis Zarrabeitia wrote:
> > I'd like to ask, what "container.each" is, exactly? It looks like a
> > function
> > call (as I've learned a few posts ago), but, what are its arguments?
> > How the
> > looping "works"? Does it receive a "code" object that it has to
> > execute?
> > Is .each some kind of magic keyword? (This has little to do with
> > python or
> > the current thread, so feel free to reply off-list if you want to...)
>
> #each is simply a method that takes a function (called blocks in
> ruby). One could call it a higher-order method I guess.
>
> It's an implementation of the concept of internal iteration: instead
> of collections yielding iterator objects, and programmers using those
> through specially-built iteration constructs (e.g. `for?in`),
> collections control iteration over themselves (the iteration is
> performed "inside" the collection, thus the "internal" part) and the
> programmer provides the operations to perform at each iterative step
> through (usually) a function.

Interesting. I know what internal iteration is, and I suspected it was along 
these lines when I saw the syntax and that .each was a function and not a 
keyword. But if it is internal iteration and the .each method is receiving an 
anonymous function, I wonder what is the scope of the variables in that 
function. In pseudo-python terms (using your example),

     x = 5
     some_list.each((def (item):
         do_something(item, x)
         x = do_something_else(item)
     ))

(or something like that). In python, the inner function would be invalid 
(the 'x' is local). For that construct to be equivalent to a for loop, the 
anonymous function shouldn't create a new scope. Is that what is happening? 
(If it is, this would be a big difference between anonymous and non-anonymous 
functions). 

Anyway, this is OT. Thank you for your reply.
(ah, sorry for taking so long... I was out of town)

-- 
Luis Zarrabeitia (aka Kyrie)
Fac. de Matem?tica y Computaci?n, UH.
http://profesores.matcom.uh.cu/~kyrie


From paul at boddie.org.uk  Wed Aug 26 17:00:26 2009
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 14:00:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ubuntu dist-packages
References:  
	<7fki3lF2kirnkU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
Message-ID: <71f5986e-6aae-46b0-8325-d67051c60a30@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On 26 Aug, 17:48, Jorgen Grahn  wrote:
>
> Well, if you are thinking about Debian Linux, it's not as much
> "ripping out" as "splitting into a separate package with a non-obvious
> name". Annoying at times, but hardly an atrocity.

Indeed. Having seen two packages today which insisted on setuptools,
neither really needing it, and with one actively trying to download
stuff from the Internet (fifteen seconds warning - how generous!) when
running setup.py, it seems to me that it isn't the distribution
packagers who need to be re-thinking how they install Python software.

Generally, distributions have to manage huge amounts of software and
uphold reasonable policies without creating unnecessary maintenance.
Sadly, until very recently (and I'm still not entirely sure if there's
really been an attitude change) the Pythonic packaging brigade has
refused to even consider the needs of one of the biggest groups of
consumers of the upstream code. Consequently, distributions will
always devise different ways of storing installed Python software,
documentation and resources, mostly because the Pythonic tools have
been deficient, particularly in the management of the latter
categories.

Paul


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Wed Aug 26 17:02:42 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 23:02:42 +0200
Subject: all possible matchings of elements of two lists
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

26-08-2009 o 12:05:41 Sandy  wrote:

> Hi all,
> I basically want all possible matchings of elements from two lists,
> Ex: [1,2] [a,b,c]
>
> Required:
>    [ [(1,a),(2,b)]
>      [(1,b),(2,c)]
>      [(1,c),(2,b)]
>      [(1,b),(2,a)]
>      [(1,c),(2,a)]
>      [(1,a),(2,c)]
>    ]
>
> My thought is to get all possible permutations of two lists given and
> select any combination and use zip to get the tuples. Repeat this for
> all possible combinations.
>
> Any other ideas?

See: module itertools -- there are (OOTB) some combinatoric generators
that may be useful for you.

*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Aug 26 17:10:41 2009
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 23:10:41 +0200
Subject: break unichr instead of fix ord?
In-Reply-To: <2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A95A4D1.9060008@v.loewis.de>

> In Python 2.5 on Windows I could do [*1]:
> 
>   >>> a = unichr (65600)
>   >>> a[0],a[1]
>   (u'\ud800', u'\udc40')

I can't reproduce that. My copy of Python on Windows gives

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
    unichr(65600)
ValueError: unichr() arg not in range(0x10000) (narrow Python build)

This is

Python 2.5.4 (r254:67916, Dec 23 2008, 15:10:54) [MSC v.1310 32 bit
(Intel)] on win32

Regards,
Martin


From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Wed Aug 26 17:19:05 2009
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 22:19:05 +0100
Subject: Python Processor
In-Reply-To: <4a958c1b$0$1600$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
References: <7670c8130908260328l6982ef4etad802a755b85a44f@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<4a958c1b$0$1600$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: 

John Nagle wrote:

> CPython's performance problems
> come from excessive dictionary lookups, not from instruction decode.
> 
>                 John Nagle

Could you please suggest some background information/links to this?
I tried to Google for it but unsurprisingly any combination with 
'cpython' and 'performance' results (to me that is) in a haystack of rants.

I did find http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0339/ but I would ideally 
like to read something more in depth but still in reasonable easy language.

-- 
MPH
http://blog.dcuktec.com
'If consumed, best digested with added seasoning to own preference.'


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Wed Aug 26 17:23:47 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 14:23:47 -0700
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	
	
Message-ID: <4A95A7E3.7040900@stoneleaf.us>

kj wrote:
> I think I understand the answers well enough.  What I *really*
> don't understand is why this particular "feature" of Python (i.e.
> that functions defined within a class statement are forbidden from
> "seeing" other identifiers defined within the class statement) is
> generally considered to be perfectly OK.  IMO it's a bizarre,
> inexplicable blindspot (which, among other things, gives rise to
> a certain worry about what other similar craziness lurks under
> Python's image of rationality).  I have never seen even a half-hearted
> justification, from a language design point of view, for why this
> particular "feature" is worth having.  Maybe some day the BDFL will
> deign to give one.
> 
> kynn

You keep using that word.  I do not think it means what you think it 
means.  :)

Keep studying.  Listen.  Learn how it *is*.  Understanding may come later.

~Ethan~


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Wed Aug 26 17:24:32 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 23:24:32 +0200
Subject: Web Services examples using "raw" xml?
References: 
	<7fgbv7F2l9u4oU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: 

>>>>> "Diez B. Roggisch"  (DBR) wrote:

>DBR> John Gordon schrieb:
>>> I'm developing a program that will use web services, which I have never
>>> used before.
>>> 
>>> There are several tutorials out there that advise you to get the WSDL
>>> and then call a method (such as wsdl2py) that inspects the wsdl and
>>> automagically generates the python classes and methods you need for
>>> interacting with that web service.
>>> 
>>> I've tried this, and have run into a number of roadblocks that have left
>>> me frustrated.

>DBR> Welcome to the wonderful world of SOAP. If you didn't know - the S stands
>DBR> for simple [1].

Stood. Like the O was supposed to stand for Object. Now out of shame
they tend to talk more about `Service Oriented Architecture Protocol'.
Whichever is a greater abomination you may choose (that almost sounds
like Yoda-speak).
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From ignace.danneels at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 17:40:24 2009
From: ignace.danneels at gmail.com (BlueFlash)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 14:40:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How do I insert a menu item in an existing menu.
Message-ID: <73dd8da1-7b1e-4065-9c2f-2cee554093e2@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

Idea:  Use of a RecentFileList, update element 0 with new file opened.

Appending a menu is easy
menu.Append(-1, "Menu Name")

when I try to insert a new menu item
menu.Insert(-1, position, "Menu Name")

does not work.

full code:
    def addnew(self, position, path):
        path = path.strip()
        try:
            self.filelist.index(path)     # index() throws ValueError
if path does not exist.
        except:
            # ValueError, path is not in list, so add it:
            if position >= len(self.filelist):
                self.filelist.append(path)
                item = self.menu.Append(-1, path)  #this does return a
menu item
                self.window.Bind(wx.EVT_MENU, self.event, item)
            else:
                self.filelist.insert(position, path)
                item = self.menu.InsertItem(-1, position, path) # does
Not return a menu item.  throws some exception.
                print item
                #self.window.Bind(wx.EVT_MENU, self.event, item)


How do I remove a menu item from a menu?  The RecentUsedList is eg: 4
element long.  When opening a new file, this should be added at the
top, and the 4th element must be dropped.


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Wed Aug 26 17:54:16 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 23:54:16 +0200
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> 
	<02a54597$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: 

26-08-2009 o 17:45:54 kj  wrote:

> In <02a54597$0$20629$c3e8da3 at news.astraweb.com> Steven D'Aprano  
>  writes:
>
>> On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 10:57:32 +0000, kj wrote:
>
>>> Recursion!  One of the central concepts in the theory of
>>> functions!  This is shown most clearly by the following elaboration of
>>> my original example:
>>>
>>> class Demo(object):
>>>     def fact_rec(n):
>>>         if n < 2:
>>>             return 1
>>>         else:
>>>             return n * fact_rec(n - 1)
>
>> Why are you defining a method without a self parameter?
>
> Because, as I've explained elsewhere, it is not a method: it's a
> "helper" function, meant to be called only once, within the class
> statement itself.
>
> Well, this is not strictly true, because the function is recursive,
> so it will also call itself a few times.  But still, all these
> calls happen (loosely speaking) "within the class statement".
>
> In fact the only reason to use a function for such initialization
> work is when one needs recursion; otherwise there's no point in
> defining a function that will only be invoked exactly once.

1. I don't understand then... Why do you desire to both define and
run it *within* that class statement as if it was this class's
method?

2. Could you please show me how it could be done in C++ or Java?
(Or you want to say that that languages also are not fully valuable
OO languages?)

3. Python makes function bodies "agnostic" about the context of their
definition -- generally any non-global information must be passed
explicitly to their interior. *It has nothing to do with recursion.*

If you really must both define and use such a function within the
class definition, pass function object to itself explicitly, and
everybody will be happy:


     class Demo(object):

         def fact(fact, n):
             if n < 2:
                 return 1
             else:
                 return n * fact(fact, n - 1)

         fact(fact, 3)


*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From http  Wed Aug 26 17:57:25 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 26 Aug 2009 14:57:25 -0700
Subject: Zlib: correct checksum but error decompressing
References: <99c381ef-a146-4545-9344-7b15d60441de@y20g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xk50qz1a2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Andre  writes:
> I have been trying to solve this issue for a while now. I receive data
> from a TCP connection which is compressed.

Are you sure it is compressed with zlib?  If yes, does it include the
standard zlib header?  Some applications save a few bytes by stripping
the header.  See the zlib doc page for how to deal with that, there is
a flag that causes the header check to be skipped on decompression if
you pass a negative number.  That's the first thing I would try.


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Wed Aug 26 17:59:57 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 23:59:57 +0200
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal
	notation
References: 
	
	
	
	
	<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com>
	
	
	
	
	<02a31f91$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<44bcb727-0885-4d4f-9c11-ca60a39b0d91@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<02a3e1e2$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<02a53d89$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<8d25833e-8008-42e9-ad24-10ddd4f6cbef@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Mensanator  (M) wrote:

>M> That's my point. Since the common usage of "binary" is for
>M> Standard Positional Number System of Radix 2, it follows
>M> that "unary" is the common usage for Standard Positional
>M> Number System of Radix 1. That's VERY confusing since such
>M> a system is undefined. Remember, common usage does not
>M> necessarily properly define things. Saying simply "unary"
>M> sounds like you're extending common usage beyond its proper
>M> boundaries.

But the customary meaning of `unary' is the tally system, as a radix
system wouldn't make sense. I don't know when this term came into use
but I have known it for a long time. 
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Aug 26 18:12:58 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 23:12:58 +0100
Subject: How do I insert a menu item in an existing menu.
In-Reply-To: <73dd8da1-7b1e-4065-9c2f-2cee554093e2@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
References: <73dd8da1-7b1e-4065-9c2f-2cee554093e2@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A95B36A.9070109@mrabarnett.plus.com>

BlueFlash wrote:
> Idea:  Use of a RecentFileList, update element 0 with new file opened.
> 
> Appending a menu is easy
> menu.Append(-1, "Menu Name")
> 
> when I try to insert a new menu item
> menu.Insert(-1, position, "Menu Name")
> 
> does not work.
> 

The following comments are the result of a brief search of the web, so 
I'm not sure whether they're correct, but they might be worth a try.

> full code:
>     def addnew(self, position, path):
>         path = path.strip()
>         try:
>             self.filelist.index(path)     # index() throws ValueError
> if path does not exist.
>         except:
>             # ValueError, path is not in list, so add it:
>             if position >= len(self.filelist):
>                 self.filelist.append(path)
>                 item = self.menu.Append(-1, path)  #this does return a
> menu item
>                 self.window.Bind(wx.EVT_MENU, self.event, item)
>             else:
>                 self.filelist.insert(position, path)
>                 item = self.menu.InsertItem(-1, position, path) # does
> Not return a menu item.  throws some exception.

I think it should be:

     item = self.menu.InsertItem(position, -1, path)

>                 print item
>                 #self.window.Bind(wx.EVT_MENU, self.event, item)
> 
> 
> How do I remove a menu item from a menu?  The RecentUsedList is eg: 4
> element long.  When opening a new file, this should be added at the
> top, and the 4th element must be dropped.

I think you need the 'Remove' method.


From ubershmekel at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 18:16:20 2009
From: ubershmekel at gmail.com (RunThePun)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:16:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Overriding iadd for dictionary like objects
Message-ID: 

I'd like to build a database wrapper using DictMixin and allow items
to be appended by my own code. The problem is += is always understood
as setitem and getitem plainly.

d = MyDict()
d['a'] = 1

# this is the problem code that's I'd like to override. It's always
setitem('a', getitem('a') + 3)
d['a'] += 3
# i wanted to do something like my own 'appenditem' function which for
example could be useful if getitem is an expensive operation which can
be avoided.

I hope that was clear enough of a request, it's really late at night
here...

thanks,

RunPun


From stef.mientki at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 18:24:34 2009
From: stef.mientki at gmail.com (Stef Mientki)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 00:24:34 +0200
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<7a9c25c20908240849p283cb70o50f374a4f8c867b@mail.gmail.com>		<81ac68ae-c7fc-4caa-a04f-f358ffb78864@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>		
	
Message-ID: <4A95B622.50705@gmail.com>

David C Ullrich wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 22:22:20 -0700, sturlamolden wrote:
>
>   
>> On 25 Aug, 05:56, Peter Decker  wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> I use the Dabo Class Designer to visually design my forms. So what's
>>> you're point?  :)
>>>       
>> Nothing, except lobbying for wxFormBuilder for anyone who still doesn't
>> know of it. :)
>>     
>
> That's great. But do you know of anything I can use as a
> visual form design tool in wxPython?
>
>   
Not a real form designer, but very convenient is XRC or GUI-support
http://mientki.ruhosting.nl/data_www/pylab_works/pw_gui_support.html

cheers,
Stef


From john_ladasky at sbcglobal.net  Wed Aug 26 18:26:13 2009
From: john_ladasky at sbcglobal.net (John Ladasky)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:26:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How do I insert a menu item in an existing menu.
References: <73dd8da1-7b1e-4065-9c2f-2cee554093e2@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

You might want to direct your wxPython questions to the dedicated
wxPython newsgroup.  It's Google-only, and thus not part of the Usenet
hierarchy.  But it's the most on-topic newsgroup you will find.

http://groups.google.com/group/wxpython-users

I attempted to crosspost this article to wx-python users, but that
doesn't work for non-Usenet groups... Good luck!


From matthew.bellis at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 18:27:55 2009
From: matthew.bellis at gmail.com (Matt Bellis)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:27:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to exclude "import"s from PyDoc
Message-ID: 

Hi all,

  I tried PyDoc today for documentation for a small project on which
I'm working. I have a class, foo, in foo.py. However, at the beginning
of the file I "from math import *".

   When I use PyDoc, it's pulling in all the math functions....

---snip---
.
.
.
FUNCTIONS
    acos(...)
        acos(x)

        Return the arc cosine (measured in radians) of x.

    asin(...)
        asin(x)

        Return the arc sine (measured in radians) of x.

.
.
.
----snip----


   Anyone know the best way to get PyDoc to ignore this (or other)
imported module(s)?

   Thanks in advance.

Matt


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 18:48:33 2009
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 17:48:33 -0500
Subject: Overriding iadd for dictionary like objects
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-26 17:16 PM, RunThePun wrote:
> I'd like to build a database wrapper using DictMixin and allow items
> to be appended by my own code. The problem is += is always understood
> as setitem and getitem plainly.
>
> d = MyDict()
> d['a'] = 1
>
> # this is the problem code that's I'd like to override. It's always
> setitem('a', getitem('a') + 3)
> d['a'] += 3
> # i wanted to do something like my own 'appenditem' function which for
> example could be useful if getitem is an expensive operation which can
> be avoided.
>
> I hope that was clear enough of a request, it's really late at night
> here...

I'm sorry, this is just part of the syntax of Python. You cannot override it.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From mensanator at aol.com  Wed Aug 26 18:58:43 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:58:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
References:  
	
	
	
	<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com> 
	
	
	
	
	<02a31f91$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<44bcb727-0885-4d4f-9c11-ca60a39b0d91@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<02a3e1e2$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<02a53d89$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<8d25833e-8008-42e9-ad24-10ddd4f6cbef@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 26, 4:59?pm, Piet van Oostrum  wrote:
> >>>>> Mensanator  (M) wrote:
> >M> That's my point. Since the common usage of "binary" is for
> >M> Standard Positional Number System of Radix 2, it follows
> >M> that "unary" is the common usage for Standard Positional
> >M> Number System of Radix 1. That's VERY confusing since such
> >M> a system is undefined. Remember, common usage does not
> >M> necessarily properly define things. Saying simply "unary"
> >M> sounds like you're extending common usage beyond its proper
> >M> boundaries.
>
> But the customary meaning of `unary' is the tally system, as a radix
> system wouldn't make sense. I don't know when this term came into use
> but I have known it for a long time.

Ok, I'll accept that and in the same breath say such common usage
is stupid. I, for one, have never heard such usage and would never
use "unary" in the same breath as "decimal, octal, binary" even if
I had.

> --
> Piet van Oostrum 
> URL:http://pietvanoostrum.com[PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
> Private email: p... at vanoostrum.org



From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Aug 26 19:01:26 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 01:01:26 +0200
Subject: How to exclude "import"s from PyDoc
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7flt66F2lho6lU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Matt Bellis schrieb:
> Hi all,
> 
>   I tried PyDoc today for documentation for a small project on which
> I'm working. I have a class, foo, in foo.py. However, at the beginning
> of the file I "from math import *".
> 
>    When I use PyDoc, it's pulling in all the math functions....
> 
> ---snip---
> .
> .
> .
> FUNCTIONS
>     acos(...)
>         acos(x)
> 
>         Return the arc cosine (measured in radians) of x.
> 
>     asin(...)
>         asin(x)
> 
>         Return the arc sine (measured in radians) of x.
> 
> .
> .
> .
> ----snip----
> 
> 
>    Anyone know the best way to get PyDoc to ignore this (or other)
> imported module(s)?

Don't know about pydoc, but epydoc (which generates much nicer docs 
imho) can be forced to only include certain packages.

Diez


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Wed Aug 26 19:08:53 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 16:08:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
References: 
	<7a9c25c20908240849p283cb70o50f374a4f8c867b@mail.gmail.com> 
	
	<81ac68ae-c7fc-4caa-a04f-f358ffb78864@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
Message-ID: <843fa78f-da92-4714-bac5-8807bf11e35a@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On 26 Aug, 22:47, David C Ullrich  wrote:

> > Nothing, except lobbying for wxFormBuilder for anyone who still doesn't
> > know of it. :)
>
> That's great. But do you know of anything I can use as a
> visual form design tool in wxPython?

Right... I don't know if you are trying to be funny, but as I said
there is wxFormBuilder...

3.0 generates XRC that you can use with wxPython.
3.1 beta generates wxPython classes you can subclass.

Honestly, it's the best GUI builder for wxPython I know of.


From cmpython at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 19:12:41 2009
From: cmpython at gmail.com (Che M)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 16:12:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
References: 
	<20090825132439.d6cb18ca.feliphil@gmx.net> 
	
Message-ID: <3a52c99d-6046-4e58-bed3-65d3e98980bb@r36g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>

> Combined with the comment above about issues with printing, it looks
> like Python for GUI apps isn't a very good idea :-/

I don't have that feeling at all.  I don't have that much of a basis
of comparison, but my experience with wxPython for making GUI apps
has been pretty good.

Does anyone know of a wxPython "gallery" of apps using it?  That'd
be the quickest way to prove its usefulness.

Che



From cmpython at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 19:27:07 2009
From: cmpython at gmail.com (Che M)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 16:27:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
References: 
	<7a9c25c20908240849p283cb70o50f374a4f8c867b@mail.gmail.com> 
	
	<81ac68ae-c7fc-4caa-a04f-f358ffb78864@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 26, 4:47?pm, David C Ullrich  wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 22:22:20 -0700, sturlamolden wrote:
> > On 25 Aug, 05:56, Peter Decker  wrote:
>
> >> I use the Dabo Class Designer to visually design my forms. So what's
> >> you're point? ?:)
>
> > Nothing, except lobbying for wxFormBuilder for anyone who still doesn't
> > know of it. :)
>
> That's great. But do you know of anything I can use as a
> visual form design tool in wxPython?

If in your mind GUI-builder = form builder (or close enough)
there's Boa Constructor (my choice) and wxGlade.


From rurpy at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 26 19:27:33 2009
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 16:27:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: break unichr instead of fix ord?
References: <2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4A95A4D1.9060008@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: 

On 08/26/2009 03:10 PM, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote:
>> >>  In Python 2.5 on Windows I could do [*1]:
>> >>
>> >>    >>>  a = unichr (65600)
>> >>    >>>  a[0],a[1]
>> >>    (u'\ud800', u'\udc40')
> >
> > I can't reproduce that. My copy of Python on Windows gives
> >
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >    File "", line 1, in
> >      unichr(65600)
> > ValueError: unichr() arg not in range(0x10000) (narrow Python build)
> >
> > This is
> >
> > Python 2.5.4 (r254:67916, Dec 23 2008, 15:10:54) [MSC v.1310 32 bit
> > (Intel)] on win32

My apologies for the red herring.  I was working from
a comment in my replacement ord() function.  I dug up
an old copy of Python 2.4.3 and could not reproduce it
there either so I have no explanation for the comment
(which I wrote).  Python 2.3 maybe?

But regardless, the significant question is, what is
the reason for having ord() (and unichr) not work for
surrogate pairs and thus not usable with a large number
of unicode characters that Python otherwise supports?


From rurpy at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 26 19:29:34 2009
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 16:29:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: break unichr instead of fix ord?
References: <2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <5f561ea6-95bb-4ccc-9922-decf4e554331@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 25, 9:53?pm, "Mark Tolonen"  wrote:
>  wrote in message
>
> news:2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99 at v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > In Python 2.5 on Windows I could do [*1]:
>
> > ?# Create a unicode character outside of the BMP.
> > ?>>> a = u'\U00010040'
>
> > ?# On Windows it is represented as a surogate pair.
> > ?>>> len(a)
> > ?2
> > ?>>> a[0],a[1]
> > ?(u'\ud800', u'\udc40')
>
> > ?# Create the same character with the unichr() function.
> > ?>>> a = unichr (65600)
> > ?>>> a[0],a[1]
> > ?(u'\ud800', u'\udc40')
>
> > ?# Although the unichr() function works fine, its
> > ?# inverse, ord(), doesn't.
> > ?>>> ord (a)
> > ?TypeError: ord() expected a character, but string of length 2 found
>
> > On Python 2.6, unichr() was "fixed" (using the word
> > loosely) so that it too now fails with characters outside
> > the BMP.
>
> > ?>>> a = unichr (65600)
> > ?ValueError: unichr() arg not in range(0x10000) (narrow Python build)
>
> > Why was this done rather than changing ord() to accept a
> > surrogate pair?
>
> > Does not this effectively make unichr() and ord() useless
> > on Windows for all but a subset of unicode characters?
>
> Switch to Python 3?
>
> >>> x='\U00010040'
> >>> import unicodedata
> >>> unicodedata.name(x)
>
> 'LINEAR B SYLLABLE B025 A2'>>> ord(x)
> 65600
> >>> hex(ord(x))
> '0x10040'
> >>> unicodedata.name(chr(0x10040))
>
> 'LINEAR B SYLLABLE B025 A2'>>> ord(chr(0x10040))
> 65600
> >>> print(ascii(chr(0x10040)))
>
> '\ud800\udc40'
>
> -Mark

I am still a long way away from moving to Python 3
but I am looking forward to hopefully more rational
unicode handling there.  Thanks for the info.


From rurpy at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 26 19:35:51 2009
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 16:35:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: break unichr instead of fix ord?
References: <2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 26, 2:05?am, Vlastimil Brom  wrote:
>[...]
> Hi,
> I'm not sure about the exact reasons for this behaviour on narrow
> builds either (maybe the consistency of the input/ output data to
> exactly one character?).
>
> However, if I need these functions for higher unicode planes, the
> following rather hackish replacements seem to work. I presume, there
> might be smarter ways of dealing with this, but anyway...
>
> hth,
> ? ?vbr
>
>[...code snipped...]

Thanks, I wrote a replacement ord function nearly identical
to yours but will steal your unichr function if that's ok. :-)

But I still wonder why all this is neccessary.


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 19:40:19 2009
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 18:40:19 -0500
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
In-Reply-To: <843fa78f-da92-4714-bac5-8807bf11e35a@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: 	<7a9c25c20908240849p283cb70o50f374a4f8c867b@mail.gmail.com>
		<81ac68ae-c7fc-4caa-a04f-f358ffb78864@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>			
	<843fa78f-da92-4714-bac5-8807bf11e35a@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-26 18:08 PM, sturlamolden wrote:
> On 26 Aug, 22:47, David C Ullrich  wrote:
>
>>> Nothing, except lobbying for wxFormBuilder for anyone who still doesn't
>>> know of it. :)
>>
>> That's great. But do you know of anything I can use as a
>> visual form design tool in wxPython?
>
> Right... I don't know if you are trying to be funny, but as I said
> there is wxFormBuilder...
>
> 3.0 generates XRC that you can use with wxPython.
> 3.1 beta generates wxPython classes you can subclass.
>
> Honestly, it's the best GUI builder for wxPython I know of.

It's possible that he is not asking for a visual form designer tool *for* 
building a wxPython app, but one that can be used *inside* a wxPython app like 
an IDE or something similar.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From stef.mientki at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 19:42:47 2009
From: stef.mientki at gmail.com (Stef Mientki)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 01:42:47 +0200
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<20090825132439.d6cb18ca.feliphil@gmx.net>
	
Message-ID: <4A95C877.7020401@gmail.com>

Gilles Ganault wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:24:39 +0200, Wolfgang Keller 
> wrote:
>   
>> The area of _desktop_ database application development indeed looks like a vast and very hostile desert in the Python landscape.
>>
>> The only framework that seems to be worth trying is Dabo. Unfortunately there's little documentation, and that's mostly outdated.
>>
>> There's also Kiwi, but that's even less well documented.
>>
>> And GNU Enterprise essentially seems to be dead.
>>     
>
> Combined with the comment above about issues with printing, it looks
> like Python for GUI apps isn't a very good idea :-/
>
> I'd be interested in checking out commercial applications written in
> Python for the Windows OS, if there are any.
>   
I've been grown up with (and still using) Delphi,
known as having th? best GUI-builder.
I now use wxPython (with GUI-support),
with more comfort and more easy than Delphi !

cheers,
Stef

> Thank you.
>   



From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Wed Aug 26 19:53:28 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 23:53:28 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Zlib: correct checksum but error decompressing
References: <99c381ef-a146-4545-9344-7b15d60441de@y20g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>
	<7xk50qz1a2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: 

Paul Rubin  writes:

> 
> Andre  gmail.com> writes:
> > I have been trying to solve this issue for a while now. I receive data
> > from a TCP connection which is compressed.
> 
> Are you sure it is compressed with zlib?  If yes, does it include the
> standard zlib header?  Some applications save a few bytes by stripping
> the header.  See the zlib doc page for how to deal with that, there is
> a flag that causes the header check to be skipped on decompression if
> you pass a negative number.  That's the first thing I would try.

Short answer:

Try this:
    zlib.decompress(incoming_data, -15)
If that doesn't work:
    print repr(incoming_data[:30])
    # post the results here

Longer answer:

A zlib stream consists of a deflate stream preceded by
a 2-byte header and followed by a 4-byte Adler32
checksum of the original data.

The problem occurs not out of a desire to save 6 bytes
but through compounding of 2 mistakes:

Mistake (1) is in the HTTP protocol.
See http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec3.html
The "deflate" content coding should have been called "zlib".
Read this and weep:
"""deflate The "zlib" format defined in RFC 1950 [31] in
combination with the "deflate" compression mechanism
described in RFC 1951 [29]."""

Mistake (2) happens when software implementers read only
the first word of the above quote and provide only a
deflate stream.

A reader can handle both possibilities by checking for a
(usual, default) zlib header:

data[0] == '\x78' and (ord(data[1]) + 0x7800) % 31 == 0

HTH,
John






From contact at xavierho.com  Wed Aug 26 20:20:59 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 10:20:59 +1000
Subject: Overriding iadd for dictionary like objects
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908261720i70dd92cds13c0139f25646c70@mail.gmail.com>

I haven't tested it, but did you encounter a problem defining __iadd__ in
the class definition?
See:
http://docs.python.org/reference/datamodel.html#object.__iadd__

Cheers,

Ching-Yun "Xavier" Ho, Technical Artist

Contact Information
Mobile: (+61) 04 3335 4748
Skype ID: SpaXe85
Email: contact at xavierho.com
Website: http://xavierho.com/


On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 8:48 AM, Robert Kern  wrote:

> On 2009-08-26 17:16 PM, RunThePun wrote:
>
>> I'd like to build a database wrapper using DictMixin and allow items
>> to be appended by my own code. The problem is += is always understood
>> as setitem and getitem plainly.
>>
>> d = MyDict()
>> d['a'] = 1
>>
>> # this is the problem code that's I'd like to override. It's always
>> setitem('a', getitem('a') + 3)
>> d['a'] += 3
>> # i wanted to do something like my own 'appenditem' function which for
>> example could be useful if getitem is an expensive operation which can
>> be avoided.
>>
>> I hope that was clear enough of a request, it's really late at night
>> here...
>>
>
> I'm sorry, this is just part of the syntax of Python. You cannot override
> it.
>
> --
> Robert Kern
>
> "I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless
> enigma
>  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it
> had
>  an underlying truth."
>  -- Umberto Eco
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

From vlastimil.brom at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 20:26:28 2009
From: vlastimil.brom at gmail.com (Vlastimil Brom)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 02:26:28 +0200
Subject: break unichr instead of fix ord?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <9fdb569a0908261726t23d19f82pa590b57a4297d662@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/27  :
> On Aug 26, 2:05?am, Vlastimil Brom  wrote:
>>[...]
>>...
>> However, if I need these functions for higher unicode planes, the
>> following rather hackish replacements seem to work. I presume, there
>> might be smarter ways of dealing with this, but anyway...
>>
>> hth,
>> ? ?vbr
>>
>>[...code snipped...]
>
> Thanks, I wrote a replacement ord function nearly identical
> to yours but will steal your unichr function if that's ok. :-)
>
> But I still wonder why all this is neccessary.
> --
You are welcome :-),
but make sure to test it, if you are going to use it for something
more complex; as I said, it's only vaguely tested ...

vbr


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Wed Aug 26 21:00:10 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 03:00:10 +0200
Subject: Overriding iadd for dictionary like objects
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

27-08-2009 o 00:48:33 Robert Kern  wrote:

> On 2009-08-26 17:16 PM, RunThePun wrote:
>> I'd like to build a database wrapper using DictMixin and allow items
>> to be appended by my own code. The problem is += is always understood
>> as setitem and getitem plainly.
>>
>> d = MyDict()
>> d['a'] = 1
>>
>> # this is the problem code that's I'd like to override. It's always
>> setitem('a', getitem('a') + 3)
>> d['a'] += 3
>> # i wanted to do something like my own 'appenditem' function which for
>> example could be useful if getitem is an expensive operation which can
>> be avoided.
>>
>> I hope that was clear enough of a request, it's really late at night
>> here...
>
> I'm sorry, this is just part of the syntax of Python. You cannot  
> override it.

Though
     d['a'] = 3
is equivalent to:
     d.__setitem__('a', 3)

The
     d['a'] += 3
*is not* equivalent to:
     d.__setitem__('a', d.__getitem__('a') + 3)
*but is* equivalent to:
     d.__getitem__('a').__iadd__(3)

Then you can override __getitem__() of MyDict in such a way that it
returns prepared (wrapped) object with overriden __iadd__() as you
want to.

How could I now it:

   1 import collections
   2 import functools
   3 import itertools
   4
   5
   6 def verbose_func(func):
   7     'Function decorator that makes a function "verbose"'
   8
   9     @functools.wraps(func, assigned=('__name__', '__doc__'))
  10     def func_wrapper(*args, **kwargs):
  11         iargs = (map(str, args))
  12         ikwargs = ('{0}={1}'.format(key, value)
  13                    for key, value in kwargs.items())
  14         func_args = ', '.join(itertools.chain(iargs, ikwargs))
  15         print('{0}({1})'.format(func.__name__, func_args))
  16         return func(*args, **kwargs)
  17
  18     return func_wrapper
  19
  20
  21 def verbose_cls(base):
  22     'Class decorator that makes callable attributes "verbose"'
  23
  24     quiet = ('__new__', '__repr__', '__str__')
  25
  26     def cls_wrapper(cls):
  27         for name in vars(base):
  28             attr = getattr(cls, name)
  29             if isinstance(attr, collections.Callable) and name not in  
quiet:
  30                 setattr(cls, name, verbose_func(attr))
  31         return cls
  32
  33     return cls_wrapper
  34
  35
  36 @verbose_cls(dict)
  37 class VerboseDict(dict):
  38     pass
  39
  40
  41 @verbose_cls(int)
  42 class MyInt(int):
  43
  44     @verbose_func
  45     def __iadd__(self, other):
  46         int.__add__(self, other)  # can do something more interesting
  47
  48
  49 if __name__ == '__main__':
  50     d = VerboseDict()
  51
  52     print("d['a'] = 3")
  53     d['a'] = MyInt(3)
  54
  55     print("d['a'] += 3")
  56     d['a'] += MyInt(3)

*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Aug 26 21:01:35 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 26 Aug 2009 18:01:35 -0700
Subject: List iterator thread safety
References: 
Message-ID: 

In article ,
Emanuele D'Arrigo  wrote:
>
>Let's say I have a list accessed by two threads, one removing list
>items via "del myList[index]" statement the other iterating through
>the list and printing out the items via "for item in myList:"
>statement. Am I right to say this -won't- generate exceptions because
>the list iterator is not concerned with the list changing in size
>under its nose? Or are there pitfalls I should be aware of?

Well, I'm not sure about exceptions, but you almost certainly won't get
the results you want.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I support family values -- Addams family values" --www.nancybuttons.com


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Wed Aug 26 21:02:19 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 03:02:19 +0200
Subject: Overriding iadd for dictionary like objects
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

27-08-2009 o 00:48:33 Robert Kern  wrote:

> On 2009-08-26 17:16 PM, RunThePun wrote:
>> I'd like to build a database wrapper using DictMixin and allow items
>> to be appended by my own code. The problem is += is always understood
>> as setitem and getitem plainly.
>>
>> d = MyDict()
>> d['a'] = 1
>>
>> # this is the problem code that's I'd like to override. It's always
>> setitem('a', getitem('a') + 3)
>> d['a'] += 3
>> # i wanted to do something like my own 'appenditem' function which for
>> example could be useful if getitem is an expensive operation which can
>> be avoided.
>>
>> I hope that was clear enough of a request, it's really late at night
>> here...
>
> I'm sorry, this is just part of the syntax of Python. You cannot  
> override it.

Though
       d['a'] = 3
is equivalent to:
       d.__setitem__('a', 3)

The
       d['a'] += 3
*is not* equivalent to:
       d.__setitem__('a', d.__getitem__('a') + 3)
*but is* equivalent to:
       d.__setitem__('a', d.__getitem__('a').__iadd__(3))

Then you can override __getitem__() of MyDict in such a way that it
returns prepared (wrapped) object with overriden __iadd__() as you
want to.

How could I now it:

     1 import collections
     2 import functools
     3 import itertools
     4
     5
     6 def verbose_func(func):
     7     'Function decorator that makes a function "verbose"'
     8
     9     @functools.wraps(func, assigned=('__name__', '__doc__'))
    10     def func_wrapper(*args, **kwargs):
    11         iargs = (map(str, args))
    12         ikwargs = ('{0}={1}'.format(key, value)
    13                    for key, value in kwargs.items())
    14         func_args = ', '.join(itertools.chain(iargs, ikwargs))
    15         print('{0}({1})'.format(func.__name__, func_args))
    16         return func(*args, **kwargs)
    17
    18     return func_wrapper
    19
    20
    21 def verbose_cls(base):
    22     'Class decorator that makes callable attributes "verbose"'
    23
    24     quiet = ('__new__', '__repr__', '__str__')
    25
    26     def cls_wrapper(cls):
    27         for name in vars(base):
    28             attr = getattr(cls, name)
    29             if isinstance(attr, collections.Callable) and name not in
quiet:
    30                 setattr(cls, name, verbose_func(attr))
    31         return cls
    32
    33     return cls_wrapper
    34
    35
    36 @verbose_cls(dict)
    37 class VerboseDict(dict):
    38     pass
    39
    40
    41 @verbose_cls(int)
    42 class MyInt(int):
    43
    44     @verbose_func
    45     def __iadd__(self, other):
    46         int.__add__(self, other)  # can do something more interesting
    47
    48
    49 if __name__ == '__main__':
    50     d = VerboseDict()
    51
    52     print("d['a'] = 3")
    53     d['a'] = MyInt(3)
    54
    55     print("d['a'] += 3")
    56     d['a'] += MyInt(3)

*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Wed Aug 26 21:06:16 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 03:06:16 +0200
Subject: Overriding iadd for dictionary like objects
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

PS. Sorry for sending 2 posts -- the latter is the correct one.

Cheers,
*j


From davea at ieee.org  Wed Aug 26 21:19:37 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 21:19:37 -0400
Subject: [Tutor] Declaration order of classes... why it is important?
In-Reply-To: <1251323517.23132.6.camel@jabbar>
References: <1251303952.20327.46.camel@jabbar>	
	<1c2a2c590908261040r1e70348v8d31d0bf628e7c80@mail.gmail.com>	
	<4A959114.8010703@ieee.org> <1251323517.23132.6.camel@jabbar>
Message-ID: <4A95DF29.5070803@ieee.org>

(Looks like you posted privately to me;  should use Reply-all.  I'm 
copying entire message here so others can add to my comments)

Mac Ryan wrote:
> On Wed, 2009-08-26 at 15:46 -0400, Dave Angel wrote:
>   
>> So define a classmethod to finish the job, and invoke it later
>>
>> class Employee(object):
>>     @classmethod
>>     def finish(cls):
>>         cls.__storm_table__ = "employee"
>>         cls.company_id = []
>>         cls.company = Company.id         #where Company is a forward 
>> reference
>>         del cls.finish      #remove this method so it won't be called a 
>> second time
>>
>> class Company:
>>     id = 42
>>
>> Employee.finish()   #This finishes initializing the class
>>
>>
>> help(Employee)
>> print Employee.company_id
>>     
>
> First things first, thank you Wayne, Kent and Dave for your extensive
> and complementary explanations. As many things in python, what it seemed
> obscure at first now - with your help - seems perfectly obvious.
>
> Second thing: the example that Dave gave me and that I left quoted above
> makes use of decorators, but this is something that I still do not
> understand. I believe I got a grasp of the concept of metaclasses, to
> which the concept of decorator seems to be related, but the official
> documentation is a a bit obscure for me.
>
> I don't want to steal your time asking for an explanation that probably
> is already somewhere out there, but my google searches did not return
> anything useful (I assume I am using the wrong keywords here), so if you
> have a good pointer for me, I would be very grateful. :)
>
> Mac.
>
>
>   
Decorators are syntactic sugar to save typing;  what they accomplish can 
always be done another way, but generally not as readable.

#somebody (eg., Python library) defines a function that takes a function 
as parameter, and returns a function, generally a different one related 
to the first
def  mydecorator(funct):
      ....
      return newfunct


class  myclass(object):
     @mydecorator
      def  mymethod(self, arg1, arg2):
              ...

Instead of the @syntax, we could also have written:

class  myclass(object):
      def mymethod(self, arg1, arg2)
            ....
      mymethod = mydecorator(mymethod)             #this call happens 
when the class is being created


Now there are a couple of decorators that are in the standard library 
that everyone should know about:    classmethod() and staticmethod().  
They wrap a method in a new one (which ends up having the same name), 
such that the first argument is either eaten (staticmethod), or changed 
to a class (classmethod).

Hope that was sufficient detail.

DaveA



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Wed Aug 26 21:34:10 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 27 Aug 2009 01:34:10 GMT
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
References: 
	
	
	
	
	<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com>
	
	
	
	
	<02a31f91$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<44bcb727-0885-4d4f-9c11-ca60a39b0d91@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<02a3e1e2$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<02a53d89$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<8d25833e-8008-42e9-ad24-10ddd4f6cbef@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <02a5d290$0$15633$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 10:58:12 -0700, Mensanator wrote:

>> But I certainly wouldn't call it "binary", for fear of confusion with
>> radix-2 binary.
> 
> That's my point. Since the common usage of "binary" is for Standard
> Positional Number System of Radix 2, it follows that "unary" is the
> common usage for Standard Positional Number System of Radix 1.

Er, no, that doesn't follow. There is no such thing as a radix-1 
positional number system -- it just doesn't work.

In any case, unary is the standard term for what I'm discussing:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unary_numeral_system

although Mathworld doesn't seem to know it.


> That's VERY confusing since such a system is undefined.

Base-1 positional system is defined, it just doesn't work. You would have 
to write a number by the sum of 0*(1**i), which clearly doesn't get you 
very far. Positional unary is only capable of representing zero, and no 
other numbers, which is even less useful than unary, which at least can 
be used for counting positive numbers, addition and subtraction, and even 
has a use in Elias gamma coding.



> Remember, common usage
> does not necessarily properly define things. Saying simply "unary"
> sounds like you're extending common usage beyond its proper boundaries.

You're reasoning by analogy: "binary" means "positional number system 
with radix 2", "decimal" => radix 10, etc, so "unary" => radix 1. That's 
a reasonable heuristic to follow, but it can fail, because even in 
mathematics, names for things don't necessarily follow such patterns 
perfectly. Because the radix 1 positional system can't work and therefore 
doesn't exist, the name "unary" is available, and has been taken to 
describe a number system which counts by tally marks.



-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Wed Aug 26 21:52:27 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 27 Aug 2009 01:52:27 GMT
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
References: 
	
	
	
	
	<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com>
	
	
	
	
	<02a31f91$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<44bcb727-0885-4d4f-9c11-ca60a39b0d91@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<02a3e1e2$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<02a53d89$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<8d25833e-8008-42e9-ad24-10ddd4f6cbef@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<02a5d290$0$15633$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <02a5d6da$0$15633$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 01:34:10 +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 10:58:12 -0700, Mensanator wrote:
> 
>>> But I certainly wouldn't call it "binary", for fear of confusion with
>>> radix-2 binary.
>> 
>> That's my point. Since the common usage of "binary" is for Standard
>> Positional Number System of Radix 2, it follows that "unary" is the
>> common usage for Standard Positional Number System of Radix 1.
> 
> Er, no, that doesn't follow. There is no such thing as a radix-1
> positional number system -- it just doesn't work.

Sorry, this is clumsy writing... of course radix-1 positional number 
system is defined, it's just pointless -- it is only capable of 
representing 0 = 00 = 000 = 0000 ...


-- 
Steven


From max at alcyone.com  Wed Aug 26 21:53:04 2009
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 18:53:04 -0700
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
In-Reply-To: <02a5d290$0$15633$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 					<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com>					<02a31f91$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<44bcb727-0885-4d4f-9c11-ca60a39b0d91@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>	<02a3e1e2$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>		<02a53d89$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<8d25833e-8008-42e9-ad24-10ddd4f6cbef@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<02a5d290$0$15633$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 10:58:12 -0700, Mensanator wrote:
> 
>>> But I certainly wouldn't call it "binary", for fear of confusion with
>>> radix-2 binary.
>> That's my point. Since the common usage of "binary" is for Standard
>> Positional Number System of Radix 2, it follows that "unary" is the
>> common usage for Standard Positional Number System of Radix 1.
> 
> Er, no, that doesn't follow. There is no such thing as a radix-1 
> positional number system -- it just doesn't work.
> 
> In any case, unary is the standard term for what I'm discussing:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unary_numeral_system
> 
> although Mathworld doesn't seem to know it.

Psst.  That's a hint.

Googling for "unary number system" ("unary numeral system" just comes up 
with endless mirrors of Wikipedia) gives Wikipedia as hit #1.  Hit #2 is 
  from the Institute of Druidic Technology, another hint.  The remaining 
hits are pretty much people pontificating in discussion groups just as 
they are in this one.

Yes, you can define something that works.  But it's not the usual 
mathematical definition of radix, so if you want to talk about it you 
have to disclaim that it's not a proper base and that's you're making up 
as you go.  But you can't pretend like it's the "obvious" mathematical 
meaning just because the usual mathematical meaning doesn't apply, which 
is what you seem to be doing.

-- 
Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
  San Jose, CA, USA && 37 18 N 121 57 W && AIM/Y!M/Skype erikmaxfrancis
   And I've seen the promised land. I may not get there with you.
    -- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.


From graham.dumpleton at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 22:09:49 2009
From: graham.dumpleton at gmail.com (Graham Dumpleton)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 19:09:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python on the Web
References: 
	<4a94ef42$0$27774$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 27, 2:54?am, Phil  wrote:
> Thanks to everybody. I believe I am understanding things better.
>
> I have looked at the links that have been provided, although I have
> seen most of them in the past month or so that I've been looking into
> this stuff. I do agree with most of the things Armin stated in that
> NIH post. I agree with everybody in this thread so far. If I wanted to
> write an application, I would use an existing framework and wait for
> it to be ported to 3.x. However, I do not have the need to write a web
> application at this time, and creating blogs or other applications I
> do not need for fun is getting old.
>
> My reasoning for working on my own instead of following the 'NIH'
> concept or contributing to an existing framework is because I have
> experimented with many existing frameworks and I have figured out what
> I like/dislike, and have envisioned my own design that I feel would
> work potentially better for others, or at least newcomers. Things like
> this are fun for me, and I do not mind the challenge. I don't want to
> pollute the web with (sigh) 'another framework', but it would be fun
> for me to write it and get some feedback. I would love for people like
> you, Armin, and others who take a look at the various frameworks that
> pop up seemingly every day, to look at my (hypothetical) framework and
> just rip it apart with (constructive) criticism. That is just the way
> I do things, whether the community agrees with it or not. The reason I
> was asking about Python 3 on the web was just because I like some of
> the changes that have been made, and would like to use it for my
> framework. That is when I realized that I was absolutely clueless
> about the details of how Python, or any language, works on the web.
>
> Graham, regarding number 3 in your list of ways to host WSGI: I
> haven't really looked into mod_wsgi at all, but basically it sounds
> like the web server would be running this embedded module. That module
> would then serve the function of both FCGI and the 'WSGI Server' in my
> diagram? That actually sounds really neat. Unfortunately I missed this
> because I've been hooked on lighttpd, as the minimalist I am.
>
> Here are the things I am still confused with:
>
> 1) Why do I not want to consider running Python on the web with FCGI,
> without WSGI? You said 'no' straight up, no questions asked. I would
> imagine that there is a good reason of course, as you've been in this
> field for a long time.

Because FASTCGI is a wire protocol for socket communications and not a
programming interface. As such, you would only be creating much more
work for your self as you would need to implement a whole lot of code
to handle the protocol and then still put a usable interface on top of
it. You would also have to come up with what that usable interface
should be as well. WSGI already provides that low level interface.

> I just feel more comfortable understanding why.
> From my understanding, the only real purpose of WSGI is to remain
> independent of FCGI/SCGI/CGI/AJP (whatever that is) and the web server
> it is run on. However, 99.9% of the discussion I see with Python on
> the web is around FCGI.

99.9% of the discussion about Python on the web is not around FASTCGI.
Even if there is quite a bit of discussion, it is because
documentation on hosting Python on FASTCGI via flup is virtually non
existent and so many people have a lot of trouble getting it to work
due to peculiarities of different FASTCGI implementations. The
dicusssion is therefore because people have problems with it, or feel
the need to blog about how they finally got it to work. So, FASTCGI
may be the only way for commodity web hosting, but it certainly isn't
for self managed servers where mod_wsgi, mod_python and mod_proxy type
solutions are going to be preferred. The latter are better documented
or easier to setup and so why you possibly don't see as much
discussion. In other words, people who get things working easily don't
need to ask questions.

> So for example, lets say everybody used FCGI.
> All that would be left to deal with is web server independence. Now
> this is what I don't get, I thought that FCGI itself was supposed to
> be the protocol that deals with web server independence. Maybe I just
> need to re-read entire WSGI specification to understand, along with
> all the details of FCGI. There are just so many details regarding web
> servers, FCGI, and WSGI that it is hard to absorb it all and see how
> it works together. That is why I tried to create the diagram, but it
> doesn't provide enough details. And those are the details I am
> missing. I've been trying to find a simple diagram or explaination of
> the process a request takes to make a response, from HTTP all the way
> up to the application, to the the user.

FASTCGI fills a role, but is not essential. Personally I feel that
whole concept of FASTCGI/SCGI/AJP needs a refresh and modernised with
better hosting support for it.

> 2) In the development stack, the 'WSGI Server' seems to take on the
> role of the web server (dealing with HTTP specification),

It doesn't have to. Some servers may have a clear line between the two
with WSGI being a properly distinct layer on top.

> skips FCGI,
> and deals with the WSGI specification. Then, the 'WSGI Server' in the
> production stack (eg. Flup, CherryPy, etc) only deals with FCGI and
> WSGI specification, because the HTTP is already taken care of by the
> web server?

Graham


From manish.paradkar at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 22:39:21 2009
From: manish.paradkar at gmail.com (manish)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 10:39:21 +0800
Subject: Python Processor
Message-ID: <7670c8130908261939p7ef1726bodbae14d836d33ea5@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,


    Contrary to the ancient and, I believe, obsolete text in the
documentation,
     there is no 'python bytecode'. Dis is based on CPython bytecode.
     Jython uses Java bytecode. IronPython uses, I believe, Microsoft clr
bytecode. Object code compilers do not use bytecode.

         Before going through the one of the existing VM implementations, i
want to know if there is there any informaition
         available which elaborates on the structure of the bytecodes. Like
details regarding co_names, co_cellvars,
         co_freevars, the concept of frames, global, local, objects,
functions etc with respect to the bytecode.

     These are mostly version-specific Cpython implementation details.

     tjr

I agree, i am looking at a version-specific CPython implementation, or can
be PyPy even . I need some information
on the implementation of these interpreters which would help me visualize
how they can be mapped to hardware.

      It probably wouldn't help much.  CPython's performance problems
     come from excessive dictionary lookups, not from instruction decode.

                               John Nagle

This is just for my personal interest so currently i am not looking at
performance - just be able to implement a basic core at first.
The idea is to then extend it and develop a self contained unit of
computation which can be reconfigured on the fly. So given enough
memory and I/Os the same module can behave differently depending on the
script loaded. One can either have a large monolithic cpu
running an OS of some sorts or smaller processors each executing their own
little scripts and communicating with each other.

Manish
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From usenet at enigmacurry.com  Wed Aug 26 22:52:19 2009
From: usenet at enigmacurry.com (Ryan McGuire)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 19:52:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: codecs.open on Win32 -- converting my newlines to CR+LF
Message-ID: <8fbc2c4a-c347-43df-8830-3b4e86d95792@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>

I've got a UTF-8 encoded text file from Linux with standard newlines
("\n").

I'm reading this file on Win32 with Python 2.6:

codecs.open("whatever.txt","r","utf-8").read()

Inexplicably, all the newlines ("\n") are replaced with CR+LF ("\r
\n") ... Why?

As a workaround I'm having to do this:

open("whatever.txt","r").read().decode("utf-8")

which appropriately does not alter my newlines.

What really gets me confused though is the Python docs for
codecs.open:

"Files are always opened in binary mode, even if no binary mode was
specified. This is done to avoid data loss due to encodings using 8-
bit values. This means that no automatic conversion of '\n' is done on
reading and writing."

The way I read that, codecs.open should not touch my newlines. What am
I doing wrong? Is this a bug in Python, or in the docs, or both?


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Wed Aug 26 22:52:41 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 27 Aug 2009 02:52:41 GMT
Subject: break unichr instead of fix ord?
References: <2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4A95A4D1.9060008@v.loewis.de>
	
Message-ID: <02a5e4f7$0$15633$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 16:27:33 -0700, rurpy wrote:

> But regardless, the significant question is, what is the reason for
> having ord() (and unichr) not work for surrogate pairs and thus not
> usable with a large number of unicode characters that Python otherwise
> supports?


I'm no expert on Unicode, but my guess is that the reason is out of a 
desire for simplicity: unichr() should always return a single char, not a 
pair of chars, and similarly ord() should take as input a single char, 
not two, and return a single number.

Otherwise it would be ambiguous whether ord(surrogate_pair) should return 
a pair of ints representing the codes for each item in the pair, or a 
single int representing the code point for the whole pair.

E.g. given your earlier example:

>>> a = u'\U00010040'
>>> len(a)
2
>>> a[0]
u'\ud800'
>>> a[1]
u'\udc40'

would you expect ord(a) to return (0xd800, 0xdc40) or 0x10040? If the 
latter, what about ord(u'ab')?

Remember that a unicode string can contain code points that aren't valid 
characters:

>>> ord(u'\ud800')  # reserved for surrogates, not a character
55296

so if ord() sees a surrogate pair, it can't assume it's meant to be 
treated as a surrogate pair rather than a pair of code points that just 
happens to match a surrogate pair.

None of this means you can't deal with surrogate pairs, it just means you 
can't deal with them using ord() and unichr().

The above is just my guess, I'd be interested to hear what others say.


-- 
Steven


From phily05 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 23:02:55 2009
From: phily05 at gmail.com (Phil)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 20:02:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python on the Web
References: 
	<4a94ef42$0$27774$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	
	
Message-ID: <835a57b2-9a08-4f10-b2d4-78c96f22f3ee@n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

Thanks a lot for another response. I've never posted in groups like
this before but the results are amazing.

I will definitely consider trying mod_wsgi when I get a chance. I like
the approach taken with it. It is unfortunate that I completely missed
all Apache related material because I was using lighttpd. Is there no
mod_wsgi for lighttpd? I guess I could always just Google that myself.

Thanks again for the help.


From philip at semanchuk.com  Wed Aug 26 23:04:31 2009
From: philip at semanchuk.com (Philip Semanchuk)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 23:04:31 -0400
Subject: codecs.open on Win32 -- converting my newlines to CR+LF
In-Reply-To: <8fbc2c4a-c347-43df-8830-3b4e86d95792@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
References: <8fbc2c4a-c347-43df-8830-3b4e86d95792@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2E7FD302-C77A-48DD-B03D-B1959945BBA4@semanchuk.com>


On Aug 26, 2009, at 10:52 PM, Ryan McGuire wrote:

> I've got a UTF-8 encoded text file from Linux with standard newlines
> ("\n").
>
> I'm reading this file on Win32 with Python 2.6:
>
> codecs.open("whatever.txt","r","utf-8").read()
>
> Inexplicably, all the newlines ("\n") are replaced with CR+LF ("\r
> \n") ... Why?

Try using "rb" instead of "r" for the mode in the call to open().

HTH
Philip



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Wed Aug 26 23:27:05 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 27 Aug 2009 03:27:05 GMT
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
References: 
	
	
	
	
	<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com>
	
	
	
	
	<02a31f91$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<44bcb727-0885-4d4f-9c11-ca60a39b0d91@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<02a3e1e2$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<02a53d89$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<8d25833e-8008-42e9-ad24-10ddd4f6cbef@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<02a5d290$0$15633$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <02a5ed07$0$15633$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 18:53:04 -0700, Erik Max Francis wrote:

>> In any case, unary is the standard term for what I'm discussing:
>> 
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unary_numeral_system
>> 
>> although Mathworld doesn't seem to know it.
> 
> Psst.  That's a hint.
> 
> Googling for "unary number system" ("unary numeral system" just comes up
> with endless mirrors of Wikipedia) gives Wikipedia as hit #1.  Hit #2 is
>   from the Institute of Druidic Technology, another hint.  The remaining
> hits are pretty much people pontificating in discussion groups just as
> they are in this one.

Perhaps you should FOLLOW THE REFERENCES from the Wikipedia article, 
instead of relying on Google.

http://www.research.att.com/~njas/sequences/A000042

which in turn points to primary references:

K. G. Kroeber, Mathematik der Palindrome; p. 348; 2003; ISBN 3 499 
615762; Rowohlt Verlag; Germany 
 D. Olivastro, Ancient Puzzles. Bantam Books, NY, 1993, p. 276. 
 Amarnath Murthy, On the divisors of the unary sequence, Smarandache 
Notions Journal Vol. - 11, 2000. 
 Amarnath Murthy and Charles Ashbacher, Generalized Partitions and Some 
New Ideas on Number Theory and Smarandache Sequences, Hexis, Phoenix; USA 
2005. See Section 2.12.



> Yes, you can define something that works.  But it's not the usual
> mathematical definition of radix, 

It's not a radix. I never said it is a radix. Only you and Mensator are 
confusing it with a radix system, which is *your* problem, not mine.


> so if you want to talk about it you
> have to disclaim that it's not a proper base and that's you're making up
> as you go.  But you can't pretend like it's the "obvious" mathematical
> meaning just because the usual mathematical meaning doesn't apply, which
> is what you seem to be doing.

I explicitly gave an example, showing what I meant by unary, because I 
knew it would be unfamiliar terminology for most people. When my example 
was ignored completely, I explained further, and showed that it's fairly 
standard terminology. It is *uncommon* terminology, since most 
mathematicians don't concern themselves with non-positional number 
representations, which is why Goggle doesn't find many references to it 
apart from Wikipedia and copies of Wikipedia.

David Wheeler also discusses "base 1", and describes it as "cheating a 
bit". It's only cheating if you assume you're working with a positional 
radix system, which tallies aren't.

Here's another example, from American Scientist:

https://www.americanscientist.org/issues/pub/third-base/2

although that site seems to be having problems now and you're best off 
with the Google cache:

http://74.125.153.132/search?q=cache:7hlZ33y4uCAJ:https://
www.americanscientist.org/issues/pub/third-base/2+%22base+1%22
+numbers&cd=18&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&ie=UTF-8

[quote]
How do you measure the cost of a numeric representation? If you simply 
count digits, then the biggest base will always win; for example, base 
1,000,000 can represent any number between 0 and decimal 999,999 in a 
single digit. The trouble is, that single digit can be any of a million 
different symbols, all of which you must somehow recognize. At the 
opposite pole are unary, or base-1, numbers. The unary representation of 
decimal 1,000,000 needs only one type of symbol, but that symbol is 
repeated a million times. (Unary notation is in a category apart from 
other bases?it's not really a positional number system?but in the present 
context it serves as a useful limiting case.)
[end quote]



This really isn't anywhere near as controversial as you guys are making 
it. Words sometimes have meanings different from what you expect from 
reasoning by analogy. Get over it.



-- 
Steven


From usenet at enigmacurry.com  Wed Aug 26 23:40:36 2009
From: usenet at enigmacurry.com (Ryan McGuire)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 20:40:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: codecs.open on Win32 -- converting my newlines to CR+LF
References: <8fbc2c4a-c347-43df-8830-3b4e86d95792@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <6085bece-97c6-4400-9571-7cd288da1578@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 26, 11:04?pm, Philip Semanchuk  wrote:
> Try using "rb" instead of "r" for the mode in the call to open().
>
> HTH
> Philip

That does indeed fix the problem, thanks! Still seems like the docs
are wrong though.


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 23:58:05 2009
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 22:58:05 -0500
Subject: Overriding iadd for dictionary like objects
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	
	
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-26 20:00 PM, Jan Kaliszewski wrote:
> 27-08-2009 o 00:48:33 Robert Kern  wrote:
>
>> On 2009-08-26 17:16 PM, RunThePun wrote:
>>> I'd like to build a database wrapper using DictMixin and allow items
>>> to be appended by my own code. The problem is += is always understood
>>> as setitem and getitem plainly.
>>>
>>> d = MyDict()
>>> d['a'] = 1
>>>
>>> # this is the problem code that's I'd like to override. It's always
>>> setitem('a', getitem('a') + 3)
>>> d['a'] += 3
>>> # i wanted to do something like my own 'appenditem' function which for
>>> example could be useful if getitem is an expensive operation which can
>>> be avoided.
>>>
>>> I hope that was clear enough of a request, it's really late at night
>>> here...
>>
>> I'm sorry, this is just part of the syntax of Python. You cannot
>> override it.
>
> Though
> d['a'] = 3
> is equivalent to:
> d.__setitem__('a', 3)
>
> The
> d['a'] += 3
> *is not* equivalent to:
> d.__setitem__('a', d.__getitem__('a') + 3)
> *but is* equivalent to:
> d.__getitem__('a').__iadd__(3)
>
> Then you can override __getitem__() of MyDict in such a way that it
> returns prepared (wrapped) object with overriden __iadd__() as you
> want to.

You could, but then you will almost certainly run into problems using the 
wrapped object in places that really expect the true object.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From rylesny at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 00:44:43 2009
From: rylesny at gmail.com (ryles)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 21:44:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Object's nesting scope
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 26, 8:51?am, zaur  wrote:
> Hi folk!
>
> What do you think about idea of "object's nesting scope" in python?
>
> Let's imaging this feature, for example, in this syntax:
>
> obj=:
> ? ? ?
>
> or
>
> :
> ? ?
>
> That's means that result object of  evaluation is used as
> nested scope for  evaluation.
>
> So is this idea useful?
>
> Zaur

FYI, there was recently a similar idea being discussed on the python-
ideas list:

http://groups.google.com/group/python-ideas/browse_thread/thread/1a13cd9a5189b01c?hl=en


From rurpy at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 27 01:36:12 2009
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 22:36:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: break unichr instead of fix ord?
References: <2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4A95A4D1.9060008@v.loewis.de>
	
	<02a5e4f7$0$15633$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <144510f3-3cc4-4b3f-bdcc-98e810d6ee35@2g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

On 08/26/2009 08:52 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 16:27:33 -0700, rurpy wrote:
>
>>  But regardless, the significant question is, what is the reason for
>>  having ord() (and unichr) not work for surrogate pairs and thus not
>>  usable with a large number of unicode characters that Python otherwise
>>  supports?
>
>
> I'm no expert on Unicode, but my guess is that the reason is out of a
> desire for simplicity: unichr() should always return a single char, not a
> pair of chars, and similarly ord() should take as input a single char,
> not two, and return a single number.
>
> Otherwise it would be ambiguous whether ord(surrogate_pair) should return
> a pair of ints representing the codes for each item in the pair, or a
> single int representing the code point for the whole pair.
>
> E.g. given your earlier example:
>
>>>>  a = u'\U00010040'
>>>>  len(a)
> 2
>>>>  a[0]
> u'\ud800'
>>>>  a[1]
> u'\udc40'
>
> would you expect ord(a) to return (0xd800, 0xdc40) or 0x10040?

The latter.

> If the
> latter, what about ord(u'ab')?

I would expect a TypeError* (as ord() currently raises) because
the string length is not 1 and 'ab' is not a surrogate pair.

*Actually I would have expected ValueError but I'm not going
to lose sleep over it.

> Remember that a unicode string can contain code points that aren't valid
> characters:
>
>>>>  ord(u'\ud800')  # reserved for surrogates, not a character
> 55296
>
> so if ord() sees a surrogate pair, it can't assume it's meant to be
> treated as a surrogate pair rather than a pair of code points that just
> happens to match a surrogate pair.

Well, actually, yes it can.  :-)

Python has already made a strong statement that such a pair
the representation of a character:

>>> a = ''.join([u'\ud800',u'\udc40'])
>>> a
u'\U00010040'

That is, Python prints, and treats in nearly all other contexts,
that combination as a character.

This is related to the practicality argument: what is the ratio
of need treat a surrogate pair as character consistent with
with the rest of Python, vs the need to treat it as a string
of two separate (and invalid in the unicode sense?) characters?

And if you want to treat each half of the pair separately
it's not exactly hard:  ord(a[0]), ord(a[1]).

> None of this means you can't deal with surrogate pairs, it just means you
> can't deal with them using ord() and unichr().

Kind of like saying, it doesn't mean you can't deal
with integers larger that 2**32, you just can't multiply
and divide them.

> The above is just my guess, I'd be interested to hear what others say.



From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Aug 27 01:51:29 2009
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 07:51:29 +0200
Subject: break unichr instead of fix ord?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4A95A4D1.9060008@v.loewis.de>
	
Message-ID: <4A961EE1.9010103@v.loewis.de>

> My apologies for the red herring.  I was working from
> a comment in my replacement ord() function.  I dug up
> an old copy of Python 2.4.3 and could not reproduce it
> there either so I have no explanation for the comment
> (which I wrote).  Python 2.3 maybe?

No. The behavior you observed would only happen on
a wide Unicode build (e.g. on Unix).

> But regardless, the significant question is, what is
> the reason for having ord() (and unichr) not work for
> surrogate pairs and thus not usable with a large number
> of unicode characters that Python otherwise supports?

See PEP 261, http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0261/
It specifies all this.

Regards,
Martin


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Thu Aug 27 02:06:07 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 23:06:07 -0700
Subject: codecs.open on Win32 -- converting my newlines to CR+LF
In-Reply-To: <6085bece-97c6-4400-9571-7cd288da1578@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
References: <8fbc2c4a-c347-43df-8830-3b4e86d95792@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6085bece-97c6-4400-9571-7cd288da1578@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908262306t223cc991o5564bac623d9697a@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 8:40 PM, Ryan McGuire wrote:
> On Aug 26, 11:04?pm, Philip Semanchuk  wrote:
>> Try using "rb" instead of "r" for the mode in the call to open().
>>
>> HTH
>> Philip
>
> That does indeed fix the problem, thanks! Still seems like the docs
> are wrong though.

Yeah, the need to specify "b" does seem rather incongruous:

codecs.open(filename, mode[, encoding[, errors[, buffering]]])
    [...]
    Note: Files are always opened in binary mode, even if no binary
mode was specified. This is done to avoid data loss due to encodings
using 8-bit values. This means that no automatic conversion of b'\n'
is done on reading and writing.

File a bug perhaps?: http://bugs.python.org/

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Thu Aug 27 02:11:22 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 23:11:22 -0700
Subject: codecs.open on Win32 -- converting my newlines to CR+LF
In-Reply-To: <50697b2c0908262306t223cc991o5564bac623d9697a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8fbc2c4a-c347-43df-8830-3b4e86d95792@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6085bece-97c6-4400-9571-7cd288da1578@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<50697b2c0908262306t223cc991o5564bac623d9697a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908262311w55faa8afh91eef611ca99f6b5@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 11:06 PM, Chris Rebert wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 8:40 PM, Ryan McGuire wrote:
>> On Aug 26, 11:04?pm, Philip Semanchuk  wrote:
>>> Try using "rb" instead of "r" for the mode in the call to open().
>>>
>>> HTH
>>> Philip
>>
>> That does indeed fix the problem, thanks! Still seems like the docs
>> are wrong though.
>
> Yeah, the need to specify "b" does seem rather incongruous:
>
> codecs.open(filename, mode[, encoding[, errors[, buffering]]])
> ? ?[...]
> ? ?Note: Files are always opened in binary mode, even if no binary
> mode was specified. This is done to avoid data loss due to encodings
> using 8-bit values. This means that no automatic conversion of b'\n'
> is done on reading and writing.
>
> File a bug perhaps?: http://bugs.python.org/

Ah, I see you already did: http://bugs.python.org/issue6788

- Chris


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Thu Aug 27 02:38:29 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 08:38:29 +0200
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <200908270838.29673.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Wednesday 26 August 2009 17:14:27 kj wrote:

> As I described at length in another reply, the function in question
> is not intended to be "callable outside the class".  And yes,

I think this might go to nub of your problem - It might help you to think as 
follows: 

A Python class, even after it has been executed, does not really exist except 
as a kind of template or pattern - it is mostly useless until an instance of 
the class is made by calling it with whatever it needs to set up the 
instance.  And once you have an instance, you can do stuff with that 
particular instance.  Before that time, the class is mostly just a promise of 
things to come.



> recursive functions in Python *are* restricted in ways that
> non-recursive functions aren't.  The examples I've posted prove
> this point unambiguously.

Yes and no - mostly no -  your examples just illustrate the point I tried to 
make above.

Pythons object model, and its classes, are different from what you are used 
to.  A bare class is mostly useless without an instance, which is ultimately 
why accessing a function in a class from itself like you are doing, without 
reference to an instance, does not work - the function does not exist yet to 
a degree that it can be referenced.  It is kind of subtle, and different from 
other languages.

8<------------- rant against the way things are -----------------------

Welcome to python, and the newsgroup, by the way.

- Hendrik



From ubershmekel at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 02:49:10 2009
From: ubershmekel at gmail.com (RunThePun)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 23:49:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Overriding iadd for dictionary like objects
References: 
	
	 
	
Message-ID: <21e57363-4e92-41cb-9907-5aef96ad0a6e@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 27, 6:58?am, Robert Kern  wrote:
> On 2009-08-26 20:00 PM, Jan Kaliszewski wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > 27-08-2009 o 00:48:33 Robert Kern  wrote:
>
> >> On 2009-08-26 17:16 PM, RunThePun wrote:
> >>> I'd like to build a database wrapper using DictMixin and allow items
> >>> to be appended by my own code. The problem is += is always understood
> >>> as setitem and getitem plainly.
>
> >>> d = MyDict()
> >>> d['a'] = 1
>
> >>> # this is the problem code that's I'd like to override. It's always
> >>> setitem('a', getitem('a') + 3)
> >>> d['a'] += 3
> >>> # i wanted to do something like my own 'appenditem' function which for
> >>> example could be useful if getitem is an expensive operation which can
> >>> be avoided.
>
> >>> I hope that was clear enough of a request, it's really late at night
> >>> here...
>
> >> I'm sorry, this is just part of the syntax of Python. You cannot
> >> override it.
>
> > Though
> > d['a'] = 3
> > is equivalent to:
> > d.__setitem__('a', 3)
>
> > The
> > d['a'] += 3
> > *is not* equivalent to:
> > d.__setitem__('a', d.__getitem__('a') + 3)
> > *but is* equivalent to:
> > d.__getitem__('a').__iadd__(3)
>
> > Then you can override __getitem__() of MyDict in such a way that it
> > returns prepared (wrapped) object with overriden __iadd__() as you
> > want to.
>
> You could, but then you will almost certainly run into problems using the
> wrapped object in places that really expect the true object.
>
> --
> Robert Kern
>
> "I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
> ? that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
> ? an underlying truth."
> ? ?-- Umberto Eco

Exactly my problem Robert. I'm actually going to be using this dict
for storing and retrieving strings so wrapping str and replacing the
iadd would cause alot of craziness.

Anybody have any more ideas? I think python should/could havev a
syntax for overriding this behaviour, i mean, obviously the complexity
of supporting all operators with the getitem syntax could introduce
alot of clutter. But maybe there's an elegant solution out there...

---RP


From rylesny at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 02:56:49 2009
From: rylesny at gmail.com (ryles)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 23:56:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Q: multiprocessing.Queue size limitations or bug...
References: 
Message-ID: <9a338a3f-33a8-416c-af42-36f596c7cb71@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 26, 4:56?am, Michael Riedel 
wrote:
> Sorry for being not more specific but I'm not absolutely certain whether
> I encountered a bug or did anything wrong:
>
> The (stupid) code below results in a stall forever or not at 'p0.join()'
> depending on the value of TROUBLE_MAKER.
>
> Any help, thoughts, comments?
>
> Thank you for your time.
>
> Michael
>
> # ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> from multiprocessing import Process, Queue
>
> # bit vector size
> BVS=8
>
> #
> TROUBLE_MAKER=12 ?# for greater values p0.join() is never satisfied...
>
> def evaluate(q, id, start=0, stop=2**BVS):
>
> ? ? cmin = {0: []}
>
> ? ? for mask0 in range(start, stop):
> ? ? ? ? for mask1 in range(0, 2**BVS):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? for mask2 in range(mask1, TROUBLE_MAKER):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? cmin[0].append((mask0, mask1, mask2))
>
> ? ? print 'process %d finished (dict layout: %d/%d)...' % (id,
> len(cmin), len(cmin[0]))
> ? ? q.put(cmin.copy())
> ? ? q.close()
>
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>
> ? ? q0 = Queue()
> ? ? q1 = Queue()
> ? ? q2 = Queue()
> ? ? q3 = Queue()
>
> ? ? part = 2**BVS/4
> ? ? p0 = Process(target=evaluate, args=(q0, 0, 0*part, 1*part),
> name='worker_0')
> ? ? p1 = Process(target=evaluate, args=(q1, 1, 1*part, 2*part),
> name='worker_1')
> ? ? p2 = Process(target=evaluate, args=(q2, 2, 2*part, 3*part),
> name='worker_2')
> ? ? p3 = Process(target=evaluate, args=(q3, 3, 3*part, 4*part),
> name='worker_3')
> ? ? p0.start()
> ? ? print 'process 0 started...'
> ? ? p1.start()
> ? ? print 'process 1 started...'
> ? ? p2.start()
> ? ? print 'process 2 started...'
> ? ? p3.start()
> ? ? print 'process 3 started...'
> ? ? # main process stalls at p0.join() for bigger TROUBLE_MAKER
> ? ? p0.join()
> ? ? p1.join()
> ? ? p2.join()
> ? ? p3.join()
> ? ? res0 = q0.get()
> ? ? res1 = q1.get()
> ? ? res2 = q2.get()
> ? ? res3 = q3.get()
> ? ? print 'results fetched...'
>
> # ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> --

There is a warning related to this in the documentation:

http://docs.python.org/library/multiprocessing.html#pipes-and-queues

Basically, you should reverse the order of the get() and join() calls.

multiprocessing does a pretty nice job of abstracting away the low-
level details of IPC, but there are still some gotchas. As you've
noticed, your program will deadlock when there is a large enough
amount of data being put into the queue. This is related to a hidden
thread that exists inside each of your child processes. The thread is
responsible for taking your queue items from an internal buffer and
then writing them into a pipe that your parent process will read from
when get() is called. The pipe mechanism is what allows the two
processes to pass information, and is supported directly by the
Operating System. However, the pipe has a limited capacity, and when
it is full, the writer thread is stuck waiting for the reader to read
enough from the pipe so that it can finish its write. The problem is
that your parent process (reader) is not actually calling get() to
drain the pipe. Instead it's stuck in join() waiting for the writer to
complete.


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Thu Aug 27 03:09:21 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 09:09:21 +0200
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<02a54597$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <200908270909.21886.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Wednesday 26 August 2009 17:45:54 kj wrote:
> In <02a54597$0$20629$c3e8da3 at news.astraweb.com> Steven D'Aprano 
 writes:

> >Why are you defining a method without a self parameter?
>
> Because, as I've explained elsewhere, it is not a method: it's a
> "helper" function, meant to be called only once, within the class
> statement itself.

If the sole purpose of the function is to be used to define what will become a 
constant, why do you not just calculate the constant on your calculator, or 
at the interactive prompt, and assign it to the attribute, and be done with 
it?

Why waste run time recalculating every time the programme is called?

>
> Well, this is not strictly true, because the function is recursive,
> so it will also call itself a few times.  But still, all these
> calls happen (loosely speaking) "within the class statement".

Why *must* it be there? 

>
> In fact the only reason to use a function for such initialization
> work is when one needs recursion; otherwise there's no point in
> defining a function that will only be invoked exactly once.

Seems no point to me even when there is recursion - a number is a number is a 
number.  If you know the arguments when you write it, and if the function is 
known at time of writing, storing a literal is the best solution.

Conversely, if the arguments are not known at time of writing, then they 
should be passed at run time, when an instance is created, and assigned as 
part of the __init__ method.

And the same is true if the function is not known at time of writing - then it 
must be passed to the constructor of the instance.

Storm in a teacup.

- Hendrik


From frank at chagford.com  Thu Aug 27 03:10:02 2009
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 09:10:02 +0200
Subject: Move dictionary from instance to class level
In-Reply-To: <4A955AA5.6000200@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <20090827071016.E9A7F8A3D@ctb-mesg-1-1.saix.net>

Dave Angel wrote: 

> Any time I see multiple lists like that which have to stay in 
> synch, I think code-smell.
> 

I don't think it is that bad, but I agree there is always room for
improvement.

> Why not let the EVT's be passed as strings, and avoid the whole mapping 
> to integers and mapping back detail?  And name the methods involved in a 
> way that you can directly translate the string to the method name?
> 

There is some merit in this. At present I am writing the server and the
client, and copy/paste the list of constants, so they are guaranteed to stay
in sync. (Maybe I should import it instead - even more fool-proof [the fool
being me, of course]).

However, it may happen that I want to open it up to 3rd-party clients in the
future, in which case I would have to publish some sort of API. It would
make more sense to identify the messages by a meaningful name rather than an
integer.

And yes, I could then use 'getattr' to retrieve the corresponding method on
the server side.

> Barring that, make a single "structure" which lists the event 
> names and 
> method names in matched pairs, and derive whatever lists and 
> dictionaries you actually need from that one structure.  And that 
> structure should be shared between client and server code, 
> perhaps as a 
> text file that they both parse.  Or as a stream that's passed 
> from one 
> to the other during startup.  That way, consistency between 
> them can be 
> regulated (with version string in the file, for example)
> 

I'm not sure how that would work. On the client side, I need to respond to a
'button-clicked' event from the gui system by sending an EVT_BUTTON_CLICKED
message to the server. In other words it is hard-coded into the client
program. I don't know how that would work if I read in a list of
message-types at startup.

> DaveA
> 

Thanks for the input - it is always good to have some fresh ideas.

Frank



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Aug 27 03:26:31 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 03:26:31 -0400
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	
	
Message-ID: 

kj wrote:

> I think I understand the answers well enough.  What I *really*
> don't understand is why this particular "feature" of Python (i.e.
> that functions defined within a class statement are forbidden from
> "seeing" other identifiers defined within the class statement) is
> generally considered to be perfectly OK.  IMO it's a bizarre,
> inexplicable blindspot (which, among other things, gives rise to
> a certain worry about what other similar craziness lurks under
> Python's image of rationality).  I have never seen even a half-hearted
> justification, from a language design point of view, for why this
> particular "feature" is worth having.  Maybe some day the BDFL will
> deign to give one.

I attempted to give an explanation in my previous post.



From frank at chagford.com  Thu Aug 27 03:31:01 2009
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 09:31:01 +0200
Subject: [OT] How do I reply to a thread by sending a message to
	python-list@python.org
Message-ID: <20090827073102.293C91DF2@ctb-mesg8.saix.net>

Hi all

I mentioned yesterday that I had a problem sending a message to the
newsgroup via the Outlook Express news reader.

Today I received an email from DaveA, which was sent to me via
python-list at python.org.

I tried simply replying to the email, to see if it behaved better than
Outlook Express. I hit 'Reply to all', so it 'replied' to the sender and
cc'ed to python-list at python.org.

I have just checked in google-groups and my message does appear, in the
correct thread, but not in its correct thread position.

Is there a proper way to do this, or is it better to stick to a news reader
like Outlook Express?

Thanks

Frank Millman

P.S. I am sending this message via email to python-list at python.org - let's
see what happens.



From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Thu Aug 27 03:44:06 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 09:44:06 +0200
Subject: Protecting against callbacks queuing up?
In-Reply-To: <4a9595ca$0$300$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
References: <4a91db65$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
	
	<4a9595ca$0$300$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
Message-ID: <200908270944.06268.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Wednesday 26 August 2009 22:06:01 Esben von Buchwald wrote:

>
> I don't really get it...
>
> I can see that I should put a t.after(...) around the function that does
> the work, when calling it. That delays each call for the given period. I
> just tried it out, the console keeps saying
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "c:\resource\python25\python25.zip\sensorfw.py", line 499, in
> data_cb
>    File "c:\resource\python25\python25.zip\sensorfw.py", line 160, in
> custom_cb
>    File "e:\python\r3s_contextdata.py", line 79, in acc_filter
>      self.acc_callback()
>    File "e:\python\r3s_contextdata.py", line 85, in acc_callback
>      self.doCallback()
>    File "e:\python\r3s_contextdata.py", line 47, in doCallback
>      self.at.after(0.05,self.data_callback)
> RuntimeError: Timer pending - cancel first
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> It seems like i should cancel the current counting timer, when a new
> call comes in - but how to determine when to cancel etc?

Hmm - now I am really starting to fly by the seat of my pants - but it looks 
as if your problem is that your routine is basically being called faster than 
what it can do the processing.

So what I would try is to define a global (you should really acquire a lock, 
but forget that for the moment) So lets call this thing running_calculation.

Then you set this in the routine just before the after call, and reset it just 
before exiting the calculation routine, and if it is set when you get into 
the first routine, then you just exit, without doing the after.   This should 
have the effect of skipping some calls, to make it all manageable.  Then you 
should (hopefully) not have the duplication that it looks to me like you are 
now having.

Bye the way, make the time short - like 1 - it could also be that the time is 
now so long before you start calculating, that you do not have a snowball's 
hope in hell to be finished before the next value comes in.

- Hendrik


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Thu Aug 27 03:47:05 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 09:47:05 +0200
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <200908270947.05723.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Wednesday 26 August 2009 22:47:23 David C Ullrich wrote:

> That's great. But do you know of anything I can use as a
> visual form design tool in wxPython?

Boa Constructor

- Hendrik




From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Thu Aug 27 04:07:46 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 10:07:46 +0200
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: <2a7gm6-9h.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<16b72319-8023-471c-ba40-8025aa6d462e@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<1bf83a7e-f9eb-46ff-84fe-cf42d9608e71@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	
	<2a7gm6-9h.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <4a963ec1$0$20889$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Ulrich Eckhardt a ?crit :
(snip)

> Now, what actually causes problems is that 'fact_rec' is not universally
> accessible until class 'Demo' is fully defined, but you need this in order
> to fully define it. Here comes a drawback of the dynamic nature of Python,
> that the declaration phase (compiling) is not separate from the execution.

It is. You can manually compile a module, remove the source .py and 
still import (or execute) the compiled .pyc.

The "problem" here is not with compilation, but with the fact that 
'class' (and 'def') statements are *executable* statements. IOW, the 
class statement is executed when encountered, that is, usually (most 
class statements being top-level statements), when the module is first 
loaded.


> I fully agree that this case is rather vexing to my (and obviously your)
> biased brain. I wouldn't call this a bug before fully understanding why
> e.g. you can not access a class before its definition is finished.

Nor why it's a GoodThing(tm) for quite a lot of use case - while the 
OP's problem is in the splitting-hairs category - only a problem if yo?u 
insist in imposing your views on the language instead of learning how to 
use it.

> Suggestion: someone mentioned that you should make the function a normal
> function. 
(snip)

Someone (Diez Roggisch IIRC) also mentionned a simple solution that 
mostly fulfills the OP's desires: use a nested function.


From somebody at somewhere.com  Thu Aug 27 04:10:46 2009
From: somebody at somewhere.com (Stephen Fairchild)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 09:10:46 +0100
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References:  
	<02a54597$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: 

kj wrote:

> Because, as I've explained elsewhere, it is not a method: it's a
> "helper" function, meant to be called only once, within the class
> statement itself.

So why didn't you delete it after you were done with it?

Class Demo(object):
    def fact(x):
        ...

    _classvar = fact(5)
    del fact()
-- 
Stephen Fairchild


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Thu Aug 27 04:18:59 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 10:18:59 +0200
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<16b72319-8023-471c-ba40-8025aa6d462e@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<1bf83a7e-f9eb-46ff-84fe-cf42d9608e71@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	
	<2a7gm6-9h.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	
Message-ID: <4a964162$0$7806$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

kj a ?crit :
(snip)
> 
>> I fully agree that this case is rather vexing to my (and obviously your)
>> biased brain. I wouldn't call this a bug before fully understanding why
>> e.g. you can not access a class before its definition is finished.
> 
> I understand this, what I don't understand is why do it this way.
> I've been trying to understand this particular design point for
> *literally* years.

It's quitye simple: 'class' is an executable statement that creates a 
class object (yes, all this happens at runtime) and bind it in the 
current namespace. So until the class statement is executed, the class 
object doesn't exist and it's name is not bound.

Now if you don't understand why it's a GoodThing(tm) that all this 
happens at runtime, have a look at metaclasses, how they are used in 
most major Python frameworks, and how this allows to vastly reduce the 
amount of needed boring and erreor-prone boilerplate code one cand find 
elsewhere.

>> I think
>> someone mentioned one or two PEPs, which are the design documents that
>> explain Python including the rationale, I'd use that as a starting point.
> 
> I'm reading PEP 227 now, suggested by Steven D'Aprano.  In it I
> find statements like the following alert: 
> 
>     (Note: If a region is contained within a class definition, the
>     name bindings that occur in the class block are not visible to
>     enclosed functions.)
> 
> I've seen this before, but never an explanation for why having this
> restriction. 

You should re-read Carl Bank's answers more carefully then.

> It's just one of life's mysteries.  (Incidentally,
> the fact that the author of PEP 227 felt it necessary to add that
> parenthetical remark suggests that the expectation it warns against
> is not so crazy after all.)

It's not so crazy for someone coming from a more static language. 
Python's object model is indeed a bit peculiar, and it can take some 
times getting the big picture, but be sure it has been carefully 
designed, and is incredibly powerfull once you start understanding the 
whole thing.

> But I'm still not done with PEP 227.  Maybe I'll see the light by
> the time I'm done.

My 2 cents : learn about metaclasses, attributes lookup rules, and the 
descriptor protocol (and some practical applications of these features). 
Then you might decide that the few resulting restrictions are really 
worth the price.



From david.westlund at hp.com  Thu Aug 27 04:19:26 2009
From: david.westlund at hp.com (Westlund, David)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 08:19:26 +0000
Subject: Python on HP-UX
Message-ID: <2A1DB3DEDE43A7479FB4692CB732771A3CB9E9BF44@GVW1086EXB.americas.hpqcorp.net>

Hi

I'm trying to compile Python on an HP-UX v11.23 running on an Itanium. I have tried with both gcc and cc, and python versions 2.5.4, 2.6.2 as well as an SVN checkout. In all cases, alloca.h needs to be included. On most systems I'm guessing it is already included from stdlib.h, but not on HP-UX. The following code in the right header file solves that problem:
#ifdef __hpux
#include 
#endif

My problem is that ctypes keeps seg faulting:

./python -v Lib/ctypes/test/runtests.py
[...]
# Python-2.5.4/Lib/encodings/ascii.pyc matches /Python-2.5.4/Lib/encodings/ascii.py
import encodings.ascii # precompiled from Python-2.5.4/Lib/encodings/ascii.pyc
....Segmentation fault (core dumped)

./python -v ./Lib/ctypes/test/runtests.py
[...]
# Python-2.6.2/Lib/ctypes/test/test_numbers.pyc matches Python-2.6.2/Lib/ctypes/test/test_numbers.py
import ctypes.test.test_numbers # precompiled from Python-2.6.2/Lib/ctypes/test/test_numbers.pyc
....Segmentation fault

Have people managed to get a working ctypes installation on HP-UX?

BR,
David Westlund

From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Thu Aug 27 04:35:51 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 10:35:51 +0200
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	<16b72319-8023-471c-ba40-8025aa6d462e@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
	<1bf83a7e-f9eb-46ff-84fe-cf42d9608e71@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4a964556$0$748$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

kj a ?crit :
> In <1bf83a7e-f9eb-46ff-84fe-cf42d9608e71 at j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> Carl Banks  writes:
> 
>> Yeah, it's a little surprising that you can't access class scope from
>> a function, but that has nothing to do with encapsulation.
> 
> It does: it thwarts encapsulation.  The helper function in my
> example is one that clearly rightfully belongs nowhere else than
> the class itself, i.e. encapsulated within the class.

I don't see what's wrong with having this function at the top-level. 
Sorry to have to say it this way, but IMHO you're border on cargo-cult 
thinking here. Python is an all-object language (ie : everything is an 
object, including functions, classes and modules), but it's by no mean 
'pure-object', and module level functions are perfectly ok (and quite 
often the right thing).

Now if you really want to "encapsulate" the function and the class 
together, you do have simple and and working solutions : using a nested 
recursive function (as explained by Diez), or nesting both the class and 
function in a factory function, ie:

def Demo():
   def fact(n):
     if n < 2:
       return 1
     else:
       return n * fact(n - 1)
   class Demo(object):
     _classvar = fact(5)
   return Demo

Demo = Demo()


But anyway: this is really a WTF. Python's notion of encapsulation is 
very weak (by design), and you're really wasting time trying to fight 
the language instead of learning it. Just put that f... helper function 
at the top level (prefixing it's name with a '_' to mark it as 
implementation detail), and move on to something else !-)

>  It is only
> this silly prohibition against recursive functions in a class
> statement that forces one to put it outside the class statement.

The "prohibition" only happens for recursive functions defined *and* 
called in the class statement. And once you get the big picture, it's 
certainly not "silly".



From davea at ieee.org  Thu Aug 27 04:36:34 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 04:36:34 -0400
Subject: Move dictionary from instance to class level
In-Reply-To: <20090827071016.E9A7F8A3D@ctb-mesg-1-1.saix.net>
References: <20090827071016.E9A7F8A3D@ctb-mesg-1-1.saix.net>
Message-ID: <4A964592.30100@ieee.org>

Frank Millman wrote:
> Dave Angel wrote: 
>
>   
>> Any time I see multiple lists like that which have to stay in 
>> synch, I think code-smell.
>>
>>     
>
> I don't think it is that bad, but I agree there is always room for
> improvement.
>
>   
>> Why not let the EVT's be passed as strings, and avoid the whole mapping 
>> to integers and mapping back detail?  And name the methods involved in a 
>> way that you can directly translate the string to the method name?
>>
>>     
>
> There is some merit in this. At present I am writing the server and the
> client, and copy/paste the list of constants, so they are guaranteed to stay
> in sync. (Maybe I should import it instead - even more fool-proof [the fool
> being me, of course]).
>
> However, it may happen that I want to open it up to 3rd-party clients in the
> future, in which case I would have to publish some sort of API. It would
> make more sense to identify the messages by a meaningful name rather than an
> integer.
>
> And yes, I could then use 'getattr' to retrieve the corresponding method on
> the server side.
>
>   
I've built such pairs of programs (not in Python), and studied the 
tradeoffs of various methods of coupling.  Cut & Paste is probably the 
worst way to do it.  Manual error is easy to creep in, where one copy is 
updated, and somebody neglects to update the other.  It's especially bad 
if the item order matters, as it does for enums and for your xlist() 
example.

Shared code works okay (have a module that both ends import).  But it 
assumes both ends are built and ship and install on a consistent basis.  
Not too hard when it's a single product on a single machine.  But if the 
two ends are on separate machines, especially separated by the Internet, 
you have to deal with version consistency problems.  If there's a time 
shift as well (file format), then you're stuck at that level.  Check the 
version, and either insist on exact match, or have a way to adapt to 
whichever end reports the earlier version.  Make no mistake, there will 
be new versions, and you'll have to deal with it.

Shared data is about the same, but can sometimes be more flexibly 
interpreted.  It also can have the advantage of being able to have 
multiple simultaneous versions on the same machine.  For the Internet 
case, picture a server that has to be able to serve several clients, 
each running different versions.  And it's tougher for corruption 
(accidental or malicious) to do serious damage.  I wouldn't want to do 
an import over the Internet live connection.

Best is if the necessary data is passed between the two ends during 
initialization, and both ends know how to make that data describe the 
protocol they'll use.  That can work as long as there's a notion of a 
session, and preferably if the session is two-way.  In the case of file 
formats, it means you have this data in the header of the file.

Sometimes for bandwidth reasons, you just want to transmit a version 
string, and not the entire table implied by that string.  Just realize 
the increased risks involved.

Probably the easiest way to stay in synch is if each message is 
self-describing.  To me that screams "text" for the id's.  It makes the 
message a bit larger, and you have to decide if it's worth it.  The 
overhead could very well be lost in the noise of packeting, in any 
tcp/ip protocol.

Note that all these have very gray boundaries.  And that underneath it 
all, it's all just data.
>> Barring that, make a single "structure" which lists the event 
>> names and 
>> method names in matched pairs, and derive whatever lists and 
>> dictionaries you actually need from that one structure.  And that 
>> structure should be shared between client and server code, 
>> perhaps as a 
>> text file that they both parse.  Or as a stream that's passed 
>> from one 
>> to the other during startup.  That way, consistency between 
>> them can be 
>> regulated (with version string in the file, for example)
>>
>>     
>
> I'm not sure how that would work. On the client side, I need to respond to a
> 'button-clicked' event from the gui system by sending an EVT_BUTTON_CLICKED
> message to the server. In other words it is hard-coded into the client
> program. I don't know how that would work if I read in a list of
> message-types at startup.
>
>
>   
Show me a sample client event handler, and maybe I can suggest how to 
encode it.  For example in wxPython, events are encoded  with an event 
object.  You could have the event send the object's type-string as an 
event ID.  No lookup at all.  And in fact, one event handler then might 
handle several of the events for a given widget, or even for multiple 
ones.  I guess it's not that simple, since you frequently have to pass 
other information, such as the state of the Ctrl-key, or the mouse 
position on the screen, which is not directly encoded in the event type.
>> DaveA
>>
>>     
>
> Thanks for the input - it is always good to have some fresh ideas.
>
> Frank
>
>
>   



From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Thu Aug 27 04:49:24 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 10:49:24 +0200
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	
	
Message-ID: <4a964883$0$18484$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

kj a ?crit :
> In  "Martin P. Hellwig"  writes:
> 
>> kj wrote:
>> 
>>> First, one of the goals of OO is encapsulation, not only at the
>>> level of instances, but also at the level of classes.
>> Who says?
> 
> Python itself: it already offers a limited form of class encapsulation
> (e.g. class variables). 

"class variables" - which FWIW include the "methods" - are just 
attributes of the class *object* (reminder : Python's classes and 
functions *are* objects too). Any name bound at the top level of the 
class statement scope becomes an attribute of the class object. IOW, 
this "limited form of class encapsulation" is just the ordinary "form of 
encapsulation" you'll get with Python objects.


> It would be nice if it went all the way
> and gave classes their own bona fide scope.  (But I hasten to add:
> I *still* don't understand the Python scope model,

I think that what you should first understand are Python's execution and 
object models.


>> Anyway, you could be right (I am not capable to judge it) and Python 
>> should change on this issue but from what I gathered, Pythons OO is 
>> inspired by the following:
>> - Don't repeat yourself
>> - Containing code into logical units makes it easier to understand and 
>> maintain.
> 
> ...except, apparently, when that code is a recursive function, in
> which case one's out of luck.

I wrote quite a few recursive functions in Python and never had any 
problem.

>>> Second, my example shows that Python puts some peculiar restrictions
>>> on recursion.

It's not a restriction on recursion, it's a scoping rule that apply to 
any other name. You can't access the class statement's scope from within 
a function, period.

>>>  Recursion!  One of the central concepts in the theory
>>> of functions!  
>> 
>> It is also one of the best ways to shoot yourself in the foot...
> 
> If recursion is so evil, and Python so intent in saving us from
> shooting ourselves in the foot, why does it allow recursion at all?

Recursion is not evil, and Python doesn't try to prevent anyone from 
doing stupid things anyway. FWIW, do you know that you can add / replace 
/ remove attributes (including methods) at runtime, both on a 
per-instance or per-class basis ? And even dynamically change the class 
of an object ?-)


From jldunn2000 at googlemail.com  Thu Aug 27 04:56:22 2009
From: jldunn2000 at googlemail.com (loial)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 01:56:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Parse xml file
Message-ID: 

Is there a quick way to retrieve data from an xml file in python 2.4,
rather than read the whole file?





From frank at chagford.com  Thu Aug 27 04:56:47 2009
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 10:56:47 +0200
Subject: Move dictionary from instance to class level
In-Reply-To: <4A964592.30100@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <20090827085652.E1339AE22@ctb-mesg-1-3.saix.net>

Dave Angel wrote:
> 
> Show me a sample client event handler, and maybe I can suggest how to 
> encode it.  For example in wxPython, events are encoded  with 
> an event 
> object.  You could have the event send the object's type-string as an 
> event ID.  No lookup at all.  And in fact, one event handler 
> then might 
> handle several of the events for a given widget, or even for multiple 
> ones.  I guess it's not that simple, since you frequently 
> have to pass 
> other information, such as the state of the Ctrl-key, or the mouse 
> position on the screen, which is not directly encoded in the 
> event type.

That is definitely *not* what I want to do.

I want to make the server as generic as possible, so that it can handle any
type of client, hopefully even including a browser eventually. Therefore the
server has no knowledge of wxPython event types.

I have abstracted all the event types I am interested in (the list is fairly
stable now). My protocol requires that the client maps a specific gui event
type to a message identifier, and the server maps the message identifier to
a method that handles the message.

Hope that makes sense.

Frank



From davea at ieee.org  Thu Aug 27 05:04:59 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 05:04:59 -0400
Subject: [OT] How do I reply to a thread by sending a message
	to	python-list@python.org
In-Reply-To: <20090827073102.293C91DF2@ctb-mesg8.saix.net>
References: <20090827073102.293C91DF2@ctb-mesg8.saix.net>
Message-ID: <4A964C3B.8090206@ieee.org>

Frank Millman wrote:
> Hi all
>
> I mentioned yesterday that I had a problem sending a message to the
> newsgroup via the Outlook Express news reader.
>
> Today I received an email from DaveA, which was sent to me via
> python-list at python.org.
>
> I tried simply replying to the email, to see if it behaved better than
> Outlook Express. I hit 'Reply to all', so it 'replied' to the sender and
> cc'ed to python-list at python.org.
>
> I have just checked in google-groups and my message does appear, in the
> correct thread, but not in its correct thread position.
>
> Is there a proper way to do this, or is it better to stick to a news reader
> like Outlook Express?
>
> Thanks
>
> Frank Millman
>
> P.S. I am sending this message via email to python-list at python.org - let's
> see what happens.
>
>
>   
I use Thunderbird, and treat the list as ordinary mail.  I use 
reply-all, and it seems to do the right thing.  Or at least if I'm 
breaking threads, nobody has pointed it out to me yet.

I'm not sure how the list-server decides what thread a particular 
message belongs to.  It's more than just the subject line, since when 
people change the subject, it stays in the same thread.  I'm guessing 
it's somewhere in the boilerplate that's built by a normal mail program 
when it builds a reply message.  And since I don't see threads this way, 
I wouldn't know if I broke things.

I'd love to see an FAQ on how to handle these python.org mailing lists, 
with recommendations on settings to use both when you sign up for the 
list, and within various mail applications.  For example, I see a single 
message containing typically around 10 attachments.  I do the reply-all 
to one of these attachments, and it handles the message body okay, the 
To/CC fields okay, usually adds an extra RE: on the subject (so it 
becomes RE: RE: subject).  But it defaults to the wrong From: address, 
so I have to change that by hand.  I don't have that problem if I reply 
directly to a message, say from my in-box.

The FAQ could also cover conventions and other techniques, such as 
whether to use html or plain-text for messages, how to use ** to mark a 
word as bold, top-posting suggestions....

DaveA



From balamurugan.sekar at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 05:10:55 2009
From: balamurugan.sekar at gmail.com (Balamurugan S)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 14:40:55 +0530
Subject: Parse xml file
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 2:26 PM, loial wrote:
> Is there a quick way to retrieve data from an xml file in python 2.4,
> rather than read the whole file?

Universal Feed parser can do the job for you.
This can be imported and used in your python programs.

For more information,
http://www.feedparser.org/


-- 
Regards,

S.Balamurugan

Free the code, Free the User


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Aug 27 05:14:41 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 27 Aug 2009 09:14:41 GMT
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: <02a63e7d$0$15633$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 08:38:29 +0200, Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:

> On Wednesday 26 August 2009 17:14:27 kj wrote:
> 
>> As I described at length in another reply, the function in question is
>> not intended to be "callable outside the class".  And yes,
> 
> I think this might go to nub of your problem - It might help you to
> think as follows:
> 
> A Python class, even after it has been executed, does not really exist
> except as a kind of template or pattern - it is mostly useless until an
> instance of the class is made by calling it with whatever it needs to
> set up the instance.  And once you have an instance, you can do stuff
> with that particular instance.  Before that time, the class is mostly
> just a promise of things to come.

Oh my! I couldn't disagree more strongly! I think the above is totally 
incorrect.

Classes and types are first class objects, you can treat them like 
anything else in Python. In fact, classes themselves are instances of 
type, so you can say:

>>> class C(object):  # must inherit from object
...     pass
...
>>> issubclass(C, object)
True
>>> isinstance(C, type)
True

Classes are themselves instances of their metaclass. By default, classes 
have a metaclass of type, but you can easily change that. Metaclass 
programming is advanced but very powerful.

Because classes are themselves objects, you can (with a bit of metaclass 
jiggery-pokery) make them do all sorts of interesting things. For 
instance, huge amounts of effort are often put into creating a Singleton 
class, a class that has a single instance. Well, okay... but why not just 
use the class object itself, instead of an instance? There's already one 
of those, and you can't (easily) make a copy of it, and even if you did, 
it would be an independent class. Instead of this:

singleton = SingletonClass(args)
do_something_with(singleton)

just do this:

do_something_with(SingletonClass)

Of course SingletonClass needs to be designed to work that way, which 
will probably need some metaclass magic. It would be interesting to see 
which requires less effort.

When it comes to built-in classes (types), I often use the class object 
itself as an object. E.g. I might do something like this:

def convert(seq):
    t = type(seq)  # remember the original type
    result = process(seq)  # always produces a list
    if t is list:
        return result  # don't bother making a copy of the result
    elif t is str or t is unicode:
        empty = t()
        return empty.join(result)
    else:
        return t(result)  # return the original type


>> recursive functions in Python *are* restricted in ways that
>> non-recursive functions aren't.  The examples I've posted prove this
>> point unambiguously.
> 
> Yes and no - mostly no -  your examples just illustrate the point I
> tried to make above.

Completely no. You may have missed the examples I've given, but the 
problems the Original Poster were having had nothing to do with recursion.


> Pythons object model, and its classes, are different from what you are
> used to.  A bare class is mostly useless without an instance, which is
> ultimately why accessing a function in a class from itself like you are
> doing, without reference to an instance, does not work - the function
> does not exist yet to a degree that it can be referenced.

That is incorrect. What's going on is more subtle.


>>> class Demo:
...     def function(x):
...         print "Calling function with argument %s" % x
...     function(None)
...     function(1)
...     function(function)
...
Calling function with argument None
Calling function with argument 1
Calling function with argument 
>>> Demo




-- 
Steven


From davea at ieee.org  Thu Aug 27 05:24:14 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 05:24:14 -0400
Subject: Move dictionary from instance to class level
In-Reply-To: <20090827085652.E1339AE22@ctb-mesg-1-3.saix.net>
References: <20090827085652.E1339AE22@ctb-mesg-1-3.saix.net>
Message-ID: <4A9650BE.9030909@ieee.org>

Frank Millman wrote:
> Dave Angel wrote:
>   
>> Show me a sample client event handler, and maybe I can suggest how to 
>> encode it.  For example in wxPython, events are encoded  with 
>> an event 
>> object.  You could have the event send the object's type-string as an 
>> event ID.  No lookup at all.  And in fact, one event handler 
>> then might 
>> handle several of the events for a given widget, or even for multiple 
>> ones.  I guess it's not that simple, since you frequently 
>> have to pass 
>> other information, such as the state of the Ctrl-key, or the mouse 
>> position on the screen, which is not directly encoded in the 
>> event type.
>>     
>
> That is definitely *not* what I want to do.
>
> I want to make the server as generic as possible, so that it can handle any
> type of client, hopefully even including a browser eventually. Therefore the
> server has no knowledge of wxPython event types.
>
> I have abstracted all the event types I am interested in (the list is fairly
> stable now). My protocol requires that the client maps a specific gui event
> type to a message identifier, and the server maps the message identifier to
> a method that handles the message.
>
> Hope that makes sense.
>
> Frank
>
>
>   
Yes, it makes sense. Sorry for heading down that particular dead-end.  
But the more I think about it, the more likely I think it is that you'll 
be adding new message types, even if they're just variants of ones 
already defined.  So it might behoove you to have a shared "data 
structure" that describes the whole message, not just equates a name to 
an integer.

Or consider pickling.  I don't know the tradeoffs, but the idea is that 
an object is constructed at the other end that has all the same data 
members as the object you had at this end.  Perhaps with a flexible 
enough class definition, you could represent all or at least several of 
your messages with the same object.

I am curious about your topology.  You're sending events from the client 
(which presumably has a mouse and keyboard) to a server.  But what does 
the server do with those?  Does it have its own screen, or what?


DaveA



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Aug 27 05:31:41 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 27 Aug 2009 09:31:41 GMT
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	<02a54597$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <02a6427a$0$15633$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 09:09:21 +0200, Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:

> On Wednesday 26 August 2009 17:45:54 kj wrote:
>> In <02a54597$0$20629$c3e8da3 at news.astraweb.com> Steven D'Aprano
>  writes:
> 
>> >Why are you defining a method without a self parameter?
>>
>> Because, as I've explained elsewhere, it is not a method: it's a
>> "helper" function, meant to be called only once, within the class
>> statement itself.
> 
> If the sole purpose of the function is to be used to define what will
> become a constant, why do you not just calculate the constant on your
> calculator, or at the interactive prompt, and assign it to the
> attribute, and be done with it?
> 
> Why waste run time recalculating every time the programme is called?

What you are calculating might actually be quite complicated to enter as 
a literal. You might have something like:

class C(object):
    TABLE = []
    for i in xrange(100):
        row = []
        for j in xrange(100):
            row.append((i**3 + 2*i**2 - i*j + 7*j**2 + 9*i*j**2 - j)/3)
        TABLE.append(row)

It's a little hard to type out C.TABLE as a literal.

And even if you could, which would you rather see if you were debugging 
this class? The above, or:

class C(object):
    TABLE = [
        [0.0, 2.0, 8.6666666666666661, 20.0, 36.0, ... ], 
        [1.0, 5.666666666666667, 21.0, 47.0, 83.666666666666671, ...], 
        [5.333333333333333, 12.666666666666666, 36.666666666666664, ...],
        ...
        [... , 3143161.0, 3201497.6666666665, 3260433.0]
        ]


For obvious reasons I haven't typed the whole thing out! And imagine 
trying to check it for typos!

Clearly this is a made-up example, but the principle is sound. If Python 
can calculate values for you, why not let it do so? It is easier for you, 
easier to check that you've calculated them correctly, easier to debug 
and read, it makes the algorithm clearer (fewer "magic constants"). Yes, 
there is a run-time cost, but you only pay it once, when you import the 
module, and it's likely to be not that much more expensive than parsing 
the literals anyway.

Of course, for something as big and complicated as the above table, I'd 
almost certainly put the code to calculate it in a function outside of 
the class, but that's a matter of style, and it will work to put it 
inside the class.



-- 
Steven


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Aug 27 05:47:50 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 05:47:50 -0400
Subject: [OT] How do I reply to a thread by sending a message to
	python-list@python.org
In-Reply-To: <4A964C3B.8090206@ieee.org>
References: <20090827073102.293C91DF2@ctb-mesg8.saix.net>
	<4A964C3B.8090206@ieee.org>
Message-ID: 

Dave Angel wrote:
> Frank Millman wrote:

> I use Thunderbird, and treat the list as ordinary mail.  I use 
> reply-all, and it seems to do the right thing.  Or at least if I'm 
> breaking threads, nobody has pointed it out to me yet.

reply-all may send duplicate messages to the author. Not sure of this list.

I use Thunderbird and access python-list as a newsgroup via 
news.gmane.org as gmane.comp.python.general. About 200 other python 
mailing lists are accessible as g.c.p.xxx.

The first time one posts to a particular mailint list, the post is held 
until one replies to a email sent to the 'from:' address. This cuts spam 
tremendously.  Otherwise, no signup seems to be needed.

tjr



From catalinfest at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 06:20:31 2009
From: catalinfest at gmail.com (catalinfest at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 03:20:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: About diagram and python
Message-ID: <030422b7-a4f8-4ea6-8708-4486da4cf595@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>

Hello!
I see on my Diagram Editor software this :
File -> Export... -> (on  Export option is : PyDia Code
Generation ... .py)
What python is in this file ?
How help me with python code ?
Thank you !


From frank at chagford.com  Thu Aug 27 06:21:10 2009
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 12:21:10 +0200
Subject: Move dictionary from instance to class level
In-Reply-To: <4A9650BE.9030909@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <20090827102111.ABC3B1F93@ctb-mesg4.saix.net>

Dave Angel wrote: 
> 
> Frank Millman wrote:
> >
> > That is definitely *not* what I want to do.
> >
> > I want to make the server as generic as possible, so that 
> it can handle any
> > type of client, hopefully even including a browser 
> eventually. Therefore the
> > server has no knowledge of wxPython event types.
> >
> > I have abstracted all the event types I am interested in 
> (the list is fairly
> > stable now). My protocol requires that the client maps a 
> specific gui event
> > type to a message identifier, and the server maps the 
> message identifier to
> > a method that handles the message.
> >
> > Hope that makes sense.
> >
> > Frank
> >
> >
> >   
> Yes, it makes sense. Sorry for heading down that particular 
> dead-end.  
> But the more I think about it, the more likely I think it is 
> that you'll 
> be adding new message types, even if they're just variants of ones 
> already defined.  So it might behoove you to have a shared "data 
> structure" that describes the whole message, not just equates 
> a name to 
> an integer.
> 
> Or consider pickling.  I don't know the tradeoffs, but the 
> idea is that 
> an object is constructed at the other end that has all the same data 
> members as the object you had at this end.  Perhaps with a flexible 
> enough class definition, you could represent all or at least 
> several of 
> your messages with the same object.
> 
> I am curious about your topology.  You're sending events from 
> the client 
> (which presumably has a mouse and keyboard) to a server.  But 
> what does 
> the server do with those?  Does it have its own screen, or what?
> 

I'll try to explain.

I am writing a fairly standard business/accounting application. (I am now
adding Business Process Management to it, which is complicating matters, but
that is another story.)

Most of the gui stuff is basic forms processing - screens with static data,
text fields for display and input of data, and buttons for signifying
certain actions to be taken.

My original attempt had both the gui and the business logic running on the
client, with a connection to a database running on a server. It worked, but
then I realised it was very insecure - it would be easy to hack the python
code, bypass the business logic, and allow any update to the database.

So my second attempt took all the business logic out of the client and put
it onto the server. To execute a form, the server builds a form definition
by creating objects to represent each of the widgets, creates a list of the
components with sufficient information for the client to render them , then
sends a json'd copy of the list to the client, which interprets it and
displays the required form. The client informs the server of each event, and
the server handles the event in much the same way as it did before when the
business logic was on the client.

For example, clicking a button triggers a response which could involve
updating the database, displaying another window with additional data, etc,
etc. Previously there would have been a method on the client designed to
handle the response, and the method would be added to the button constructor
so that it would be called when the button was clicked.

Now the method is on the server, and is stored as an attribute of the button
object on the server. When the user clicks the button, the message is passed
up to the server (each widget has its own id, which is part of the message),
the server is notified that the button was clicked, and it calls the
associated method.

There is a lot more to it than that, but hopefully that will give you an
idea.

If I ever get this to a workable state (it is taking far longer than I
anticipated) I will release it as open source, and will then welcome as much
feedback as possible.

Frank



From contact at xavierho.com  Thu Aug 27 06:26:19 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 20:26:19 +1000
Subject: [OT] How do I reply to a thread by sending a message to 
	python-list@python.org
In-Reply-To: <4A964C3B.8090206@ieee.org>
References: <20090827073102.293C91DF2@ctb-mesg8.saix.net>
	<4A964C3B.8090206@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908270326p58adda54w306eb823710bb952@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 7:04 PM, Dave Angel  wrote:

> I'm not sure how the list-server decides what thread a particular message
> belongs to.  It's more than just the subject line, since when people change
> the subject, it stays in the same thread.
>

I'm just using gmail because it saves me the trouble of reconfiguring the
mail server every time I use a new computer (which I do at uni quite a lot).
When someone changes the Subject with (was: XXX), it opens as a new "thread"
on gmail. also, when someone puts "Re:" in the subject it also puts it on a
new thread. The magical thing about gmail is that it seems to ingnore the
first "Re:" on the subject line, and make them the same thread. I rarely
have threading issues, but occasionally I do see "Re:" messages in a
separate place, maybe once a month.

I'd love to see an FAQ on how to handle these python.org mailing lists, with
> recommendations on settings to use both when you sign up for the list, and
> within various mail applications.


Google found me these:
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/faq.html
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/docs.html

Maybe they're helpful, since that's what the python-list uses. I've only
scanned for a bit and it seems comprehensive.


> For example, I see a single message containing typically around 10
> attachments.  I do the reply-all to one of these attachments, and it handles
> the message body okay, the To/CC fields okay,


What do you mean 10 attachments? O_o. I know some people like to attach a
company logo in their signature. (The Aussie DLF list people do that heaps.
Although some people post a hand-written sig in the attachment ... I'm not
sure how smart that is, but I've seen it done.) Where are you getting these
"attachments"?

I haven't tried reply-all yet. May give that a try next time and see what
pops up in the To: address.


> usually adds an extra RE: on the subject (so it becomes RE: RE: subject).


Gmail doesn't do that. Yay! (Re: is dumb anyway, and you can't prepend Re:
forever. Fwd: is reasonable.)


> But it defaults to the wrong From: address, so I have to change that by
> hand.  I don't have that problem if I reply directly to a message, say from
> my in-box.


Weird. I have a different problem: the "To:" Address is usually the sender
I'm replying to. It's really annoying, because I always have to hand-change
the To: address to python-list.

I've sent two messages onto the list mentioning about adding a "Reply-to"
attribute by the mailing list server, which would fix this problem. To-date
everyone has seemed to ignore me. =/


> The FAQ could also cover conventions and other techniques, such as whether
> to use html or plain-text for messages, how to use ** to mark a word as
> bold, top-posting suggestions....


 I didn't know ** marks bold. Does __ mark underline? Those are cool things
I never hear about. Thanks!

On another tangent, I only found out the Python Wiki on the official site
today (http://wiki.python.org/moin/) Does anyone actually use it, and what
for?

-

Kind regards,

Ching-Yun "Xavier" Ho, Technical Artist

Contact Information
Mobile: (+61) 04 3335 4748
Skype ID: SpaXe85
Email: contact at xavierho.com
Website: http://xavierho.com/
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From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Aug 27 06:46:57 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 27 Aug 2009 10:46:57 GMT
Subject: About diagram and python
References: <030422b7-a4f8-4ea6-8708-4486da4cf595@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <02a6541d$0$15633$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 03:20:31 -0700, catalinfest at gmail.com wrote:

> Hello!
> I see on my Diagram Editor software this : File -> Export... -> (on 
> Export option is : PyDia Code Generation ... .py)
> What python is in this file ?

Why don't you look for yourself? Just open the file in a text editor and 
read it.


-- 
Steven


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Thu Aug 27 06:50:41 2009
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (greg)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:50:41 +1200
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: <7fn6n4F2m1582U1@mid.individual.net>

kj wrote:

> No, the fact() function here represents an internal "helper"
> function.  It is meant to be called only once to help initialize
> a class variable that would be inconvenient to initialize otherwise;
> this helper function is not meant to be called from outside the
> class statement.

That, to me, is an excellent indication that the function
does *not* belong inside the class!

The only things that belong inside the class are things
that users of the class will need to use, or that instances
of the class will need to do their job.

Your helper function belongs outside the class, in the
module where the class is defined.

-- 
Greg


From IDOL at il.ibm.com  Thu Aug 27 06:57:49 2009
From: IDOL at il.ibm.com (Ido Levy)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 13:57:49 +0300
Subject: pygtk - What is the best way to change the mouse pointer
In-Reply-To: <4A959521.8020505@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: 
	<4A959521.8020505@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: 

> From:
> 
> MRAB 
> 
> To:
> 
> python-list at python.org
> 
> Date:
> 
> 26/08/2009 11:04 PM
> 
> Subject:
> 
> Re: pygtk - What is the best way to change the mouse pointer
> 
> Ido Levy wrote:
> > Hello All,
> > 
> > I am writing a dialog which one of its widget is a gtk.ComboBoxEntry ( 

> > let's assume widget in the example below is its instance )
> > When the user select one of the values from the gtk.ComboBoxEntry I 
need 
> > to run some calculations that takes a few seconds.
> > In order to reflect calculation time to the user I want to switch the 
> > mouse pointer to an hour glass and back to arrow what it finish the 
> > calculation.
> > 
> > I use the following code but it doesn't seems to work in a 
deterministic 
> > way. From time to time it skips the last line and keep the mouse 
pointer 
> > as an hour glass.
> > 
> >         watch = gtk.gdk.Cursor(gtk.gdk.WATCH)
> >         widget.window.set_cursor(watch)
> > 
> >         calculation code
> > 
> >         widget.window.set_cursor(None)
> > 
> > I would appreciate your advice on the right way to implement this.
> > 
> Could the calculation code be raising an exception? Try adding some
> logging to see whether the last lien is actually being called. You could
> also use a try...finally... block to ensure that the last line is
> called:
> 
>      watch = gtk.gdk.Cursor(gtk.gdk.WATCH)
>      widget.window.set_cursor(watch)
>      try:
>          calculation code
>      finally:
>          widget.window.set_cursor(None)
> 

Thank you for your input.

I used logging and it seems that the last line is called.
I also used try...finally... block but it didn't solve the issue.

Then I have noticed that the line before the last one is widget.connect() 
I insert time.sleep() in between the lines and it seems to solve the 
issue.

I assume it's not suppose to work this way but it can be considered as a 
workaround 
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From graham.dumpleton at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 07:01:05 2009
From: graham.dumpleton at gmail.com (Graham Dumpleton)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 04:01:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python on the Web
References: 
	<4a94ef42$0$27774$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	
	 
	<835a57b2-9a08-4f10-b2d4-78c96f22f3ee@n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <77a1add8-3b36-4b69-b21e-a7a496c30205@l35g2000pra.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 27, 1:02?pm, Phil  wrote:
> Thanks a lot for another response. I've never posted in groups like
> this before but the results are amazing.
>
> I will definitely consider trying mod_wsgi when I get a chance. I like
> the approach taken with it. It is unfortunate that I completely missed
> all Apache related material because I was using lighttpd. Is there no
> mod_wsgi for lighttpd? I guess I could always just Google that myself.

There is no mod_wsgi for lighttpd and suggest there never will be.
WSGI doesn't lend itself to working on top of an event driven system.
Someone did get a mod_wsgi going on nginx, which is also event driven,
but it has limitations due to possibility of blocking other traffic to
web server. See:

  http://blog.dscpl.com.au/2009/05/blocking-requests-and-nginx-version-of.html

Graham


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Thu Aug 27 07:17:32 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 13:17:32 +0200
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 		
	
Message-ID: <4A966B4C.7030307@sequans.com>

Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
> Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
>   
>> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>>     
>>> class Color:
>>>     def __init__(self, r, g,b):
>>>           pass
>>>     BLACK = Color(0,0,0)
>>>
>>> It make sens from a design point of view to put BLACK in the Color
>>> namespace. But I don't think it's possible with python.
>>>       
>> class Color:
>>     ...
>>
>> setattrib(Color, "BLACK", Color(0,0,0))
>>     
>
> Apart from it being "setattr" and not "setattrib", a simple
>
>   Color.BLACK = Color(0,0,0)
>
>   

Obviously ... I'll remember that.

JM


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Thu Aug 27 07:45:00 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 13:45:00 +0200
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	
	
Message-ID: <4A9671BC.7030600@sequans.com>

kj wrote:
> I think I understand the answers well enough.  What I *really*
> don't understand is why this particular "feature" of Python (i.e.
> that functions defined within a class statement are forbidden from
> "seeing" other identifiers defined within the class statement) is
> generally considered to be perfectly OK.  IMO it's a bizarre,
> inexplicable blindspot (which, among other things, gives rise to
> a certain worry about what other similar craziness lurks under
> Python's image of rationality).  I have never seen even a half-hearted
> justification, from a language design point of view, for why this
> particular "feature" is worth having.  Maybe some day the BDFL will
> deign to give one.
>
> kynn
>   

I think I got your point.
I guess many people may not be receptive to your question, cause guess 
what, we're all python fans :o)

in foo.py:

a = 5
b = a # works fine

class A:
    c = 5
    d = c # broken
    d = A.c # broken either
   
    def foo(self):
       e = 5
       f = e  #works fine


We should all acknowledge that any newcomer to python will not expect 
such behavior. There are plenty of good answers to that thread 
explaining why the fact that classes are not scopes is much better. 
Still this design fails at one point : insight.
It may be solved by creating the class upon the "class" statement. If 
the class A object is created, then c is added as a property of that 
object, there's no problem accession one object property with A.c.

JM


From manu3d at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 08:03:07 2009
From: manu3d at gmail.com (Emanuele D'Arrigo)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 05:03:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: List iterator thread safety
References: 
	
Message-ID: <14e1469e-bcfe-4922-b135-3f0bd7e17a42@r42g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 27, 2:01?am, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
> Well, I'm not sure about exceptions, but you almost certainly won't get
> the results you want.

What I'd like in this context is to iterate through the items in the
list without processing the same item twice and without skipping item
that are in front of the current iterator position. Somehow I can't
quite prove to myself if this is possible or not over multiple
threads. I.e. a dictionary will throw an exception about the object
changing size while iterating through it. A list doesn't, hence the
question.

Manu



From no.email at please.post  Thu Aug 27 08:09:44 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 12:09:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 	
	
	
Message-ID: 

In  Jean-Michel Pichavant  writes:

>kj wrote:
>> I think I understand the answers well enough.  What I *really*
>> don't understand is why this particular "feature" of Python (i.e.
>> that functions defined within a class statement are forbidden from
>> "seeing" other identifiers defined within the class statement) is
>> generally considered to be perfectly OK.  IMO it's a bizarre,
>> inexplicable blindspot (which, among other things, gives rise to
>> a certain worry about what other similar craziness lurks under
>> Python's image of rationality).  I have never seen even a half-hearted
>> justification, from a language design point of view, for why this
>> particular "feature" is worth having.  Maybe some day the BDFL will
>> deign to give one.
>>
>> kynn
>>   

>I think I got your point.
>I guess many people may not be receptive to your question, cause guess 
>what, we're all python fans :o)

>in foo.py:

>a = 5
>b = a # works fine

>class A:
>    c = 5
>    d = c # broken
>    d = A.c # broken either
>   
>    def foo(self):
>       e = 5
>       f = e  #works fine


>We should all acknowledge that any newcomer to python will not expect 
>such behavior. There are plenty of good answers to that thread 
>explaining why the fact that classes are not scopes is much better. 
>Still this design fails at one point : insight.
>It may be solved by creating the class upon the "class" statement. If 
>the class A object is created, then c is added as a property of that 
>object, there's no problem accession one object property with A.c.


Thanks!  I was beginning to think I'd gone crazy.

kynn



From jvpic at free.fr  Thu Aug 27 08:13:21 2009
From: jvpic at free.fr (jvpic)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 14:13:21 +0200
Subject: Learning Python advanced features
Message-ID: <4a967864$0$15193$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Hi,

Learning Python, I understand the mechanism of : closure, __new__, 
descriptors, decorators and __metaclass__, but I interrogate myself on 
the interest of those technics ?

May somebody explain me the interest ?

Many thanks !

Jackes Bihan


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Aug 27 08:17:15 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 27 Aug 2009 12:17:15 GMT
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: <02a66947$0$15633$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 13:45:00 +0200, Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:

> in foo.py:
> 
> a = 5
> b = a # works fine
> 
> class A:
>     c = 5
>     d = c # broken

Incorrect. That works fine.

>>> class A:
...     c = 5
...     d = c # not actually broken
...
>>> A.c
5
>>> A.d
5

The class is a scope, and inside the class scope, you can access local 
names. What you can't do is access the class scope from inside nested 
functions.



-- 
Steven


From no.email at please.post  Thu Aug 27 08:20:13 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 12:20:13 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 	
	
	
Message-ID: 

In  Jean-Michel Pichavant  writes:

>in foo.py:

>a = 5
>b = a # works fine

>   
>    def foo(self):
>       e = 5
>       f = e  #works fine

>It may be solved by creating the class upon the "class" statement. If 
>the class A object is created, then c is added as a property of that 
>object, there's no problem accession one object property with A.c.

I thought one could implement something like

class A:
    c = 5
    d = __thisclass__.c

But apparently this is a *huge* deal.  I'm not sure if the reason
it is a huge deal is that it is technically difficult to implement,
or that there is an implicit "lie" in having something (__thisclass__)
standing for something else that doesn't yet exist (and the potential
errors that may arise from this "lie" in sufficiently unfortunate
code).  Or maybe something else beyond my noobish ken altogether.

kynn


From no.email at please.post  Thu Aug 27 08:21:38 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 12:21:38 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	<02a54597$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<02a6427a$0$15633$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

In <02a6427a$0$15633$c3e8da3 at news.astraweb.com> Steven D'Aprano  writes:

>On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 09:09:21 +0200, Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:

>> On Wednesday 26 August 2009 17:45:54 kj wrote:
>>> In <02a54597$0$20629$c3e8da3 at news.astraweb.com> Steven D'Aprano
>>  writes:
>> 
>>> >Why are you defining a method without a self parameter?
>>>
>>> Because, as I've explained elsewhere, it is not a method: it's a
>>> "helper" function, meant to be called only once, within the class
>>> statement itself.
>> 
>> If the sole purpose of the function is to be used to define what will
>> become a constant, why do you not just calculate the constant on your
>> calculator, or at the interactive prompt, and assign it to the
>> attribute, and be done with it?
>> 
>> Why waste run time recalculating every time the programme is called?

>What you are calculating might actually be quite complicated to enter as 
>a literal.

Thank you!

kynn


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Thu Aug 27 08:25:36 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 14:25:36 +0200
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 		
	
Message-ID: <4a967b2f$0$19301$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Jean-Michel Pichavant a ?crit :
> kj wrote:
>> I think I understand the answers well enough.  What I *really*
>> don't understand is why this particular "feature" of Python (i.e.
>> that functions defined within a class statement are forbidden from
>> "seeing" other identifiers defined within the class statement) is
>> generally considered to be perfectly OK.  IMO it's a bizarre,
>> inexplicable blindspot (which, among other things, gives rise to
>> a certain worry about what other similar craziness lurks under
>> Python's image of rationality).  I have never seen even a half-hearted
>> justification, from a language design point of view, for why this
>> particular "feature" is worth having.  Maybe some day the BDFL will
>> deign to give one.
>>
>> kynn
>>   
> 
> I think I got your point.
> I guess many people may not be receptive to your question, cause guess 
> what, we're all python fans :o)
> 
> in foo.py:
> 
> a = 5
> b = a # works fine
> 
> class A:
>    c = 5
>    d = c # broken

Err... Did you actually tried this ?


 >>> class A:
...     c = 5
...     d = c
...
 >>> A.c
5
 >>> A.d
5
 >>>


>    d = A.c # broken either

Not "broken" : the class doesn't yet exists, nor is it bound to global 
name 'A'. FWIW, *this* works (for some definitions of 'works') juts fine:

 >>> class Foo(object):
...     c = 42
...
 >>> A = Foo()
 >>> class A(object):
...     d = A.c
...
 >>> A.d
42



> 
> We should all acknowledge that any newcomer to python will not expect 
> such behavior.

Any newcomer to any language should aknowledge that her expectations 
based on previous experience with any other language should be kept 
aside or just plain abandoned, and start by learning the new language.

The only thing one is entitled to expect when learning a new language is 
that the language's implementation follows the language specs.

> There are plenty of good answers to that thread 
> explaining why the fact that classes are not scopes is much better. 
> Still this design fails at one point : insight.

Oh, really ?

> It may be solved by creating the class upon the "class" statement. If 
> the class A object is created, then c is added as a property of that 
> object, there's no problem accession one object property with A.c.

Please, write a pep...


From robin at reportlab.com  Thu Aug 27 08:26:47 2009
From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 13:26:47 +0100
Subject: ubuntu dist-packages
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <4A967B87.9040100@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>

Florian Diesch wrote:
.........
> 
>>From /usr/lib/python2.6/site.py:
> 
> ,----
> | For Debian and derivatives, this sys.path is augmented with directories
> | for packages distributed within the distribution. Local addons go
> | into /usr/local/lib/python/dist-packages, Debian addons
> | install into /usr/{lib,share}/python/dist-packages.
> | /usr/lib/python/site-packages is not used.
> `----

the above is not present in my windows documentation (or indeed site.py) at all 
so it seems they just decided to change the name. Anyone trying to debug why 
their distutils or setuptools or whichever python packager is going wrong will 
have yet another detail to remember. In addition, as any one who has done such 
trivial changes will already know, they forgot to do it globally eg my 0.4.1.0 
version of the "Debian Python Policy" document explicitly mentions site-packages.
-- 
Robin Becker


From robin at reportlab.com  Thu Aug 27 08:26:47 2009
From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 13:26:47 +0100
Subject: ubuntu dist-packages
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <4A967B87.9040100@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>

Florian Diesch wrote:
.........
> 
>>From /usr/lib/python2.6/site.py:
> 
> ,----
> | For Debian and derivatives, this sys.path is augmented with directories
> | for packages distributed within the distribution. Local addons go
> | into /usr/local/lib/python/dist-packages, Debian addons
> | install into /usr/{lib,share}/python/dist-packages.
> | /usr/lib/python/site-packages is not used.
> `----

the above is not present in my windows documentation (or indeed site.py) at all 
so it seems they just decided to change the name. Anyone trying to debug why 
their distutils or setuptools or whichever python packager is going wrong will 
have yet another detail to remember. In addition, as any one who has done such 
trivial changes will already know, they forgot to do it globally eg my 0.4.1.0 
version of the "Debian Python Policy" document explicitly mentions site-packages.
-- 
Robin Becker



From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Thu Aug 27 08:28:24 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 14:28:24 +0200
Subject: Learning Python advanced features
In-Reply-To: <4a967864$0$15193$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4a967864$0$15193$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4a967bd6$0$19301$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

jvpic a ?crit :
> Hi,
> 
> Learning Python, I understand the mechanism of : closure, __new__, 
> descriptors, decorators and __metaclass__, but I interrogate myself on 
> the interest of those technics ?
> 
> May somebody explain me the interest ?

Didn't like my answers on f.c.l.py ?-)


From luismgz at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 08:31:30 2009
From: luismgz at gmail.com (Neuruss)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 05:31:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
References: 
	<7f519c34-2d6e-4fff-9489-dae43c6b2df1@r42g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6b961048-782a-428c-9c0a-4fb17e87b57f@s13g2000yql.googlegroups.com>

On 26 ago, 05:29, erikj  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> You could have a look at Camelot, to see if it fits
> your needs :http://www.conceptive.be/projects/camelot/
>
> it was developed with cross platform business apps in
> mind. ?when developing Camelot, we tried to build it using
> wxWidgets first (because of the licensing at that time),
> but it turned out that developing with QT proved to be
> much more straightforward. ?QT is documented very well
> and you seldom encounter 'strange' issues that cost hours
> of time to pinpoint and fix.
>
> the datagrid was developed to be able to handle millions
> of database records without glitches and is flexible thanks
> to QT's model-view-delegate framework.
>
> we do print barcodes with this app (even directly to
> zebra printers)
>
> if you have questions regarding Camelot, please feel free
> to post on our mailing list :http://groups.google.com/group/project-camelot
>
> Regards,
>
> Erik
>
> On Aug 24, 2:08?pm, Gilles Ganault  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hello
>
> > ? ? ? ? I was wondering if some people in this ng use Python and someGUI
> > toolkit (PyWin32, wxWidgets, QT, etc.) to build professional
> > applications, and if yes, what it's like, the pros and cons, etc.
>
> > I'm especially concerned about the lack of controls, the lack of
> > updates (lots of controls in wxWidgets are 1.0 deadware), and problems
> > linked to how to update users' PC remotely when I build a new version
> > using eg. Py2exe.
>
> > I need controls for business apps like access to databases, good data
> > grid, printing reports (with or without barcodes), etc.
>
> > Thank you.

Looks interesting, but I wonder if I can use Camelot without its ORM.
I feel that ORMs make easy things easier, but complex things much
harder...
Can I use it with plain old sql?

Luis


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Aug 27 08:41:07 2009
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 14:41:07 +0200
Subject: List iterator thread safety
References: 
	
	<14e1469e-bcfe-4922-b135-3f0bd7e17a42@r42g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Emanuele D'Arrigo wrote:

> On Aug 27, 2:01 am, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
>> Well, I'm not sure about exceptions, but you almost certainly won't get
>> the results you want.
> 
> What I'd like in this context is to iterate through the items in the
> list without processing the same item twice and without skipping item
> that are in front of the current iterator position. Somehow I can't
> quite prove to myself if this is possible or not over multiple
> threads. I.e. a dictionary will throw an exception about the object
> changing size while iterating through it. A list doesn't, hence the
> question.

This is not even possible in a single thread:

>>> items = [1, 2, 3]
>>> for i in items:
...     print i
...     if 1 in items: items.remove(1)
...
1
3

Basically a list iterator is just a list reference and an index into that 
list. No effort is made to keep track of added or removed items.

Peter



From dmhouse at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 08:41:08 2009
From: dmhouse at gmail.com (David House)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 13:41:08 +0100
Subject: [OT] How do I reply to a thread by sending a message to 
	python-list@python.org
In-Reply-To: 
References: <20090827073102.293C91DF2@ctb-mesg8.saix.net>
	<4A964C3B.8090206@ieee.org> 
Message-ID: 

2009/8/27 Terry Reedy :
> reply-all may send duplicate messages to the author. Not sure of this list.

I'm fairly sure Mailman deals with that.

-- 
-David


From darcy at druid.net  Thu Aug 27 08:55:40 2009
From: darcy at druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 08:55:40 -0400
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References:  
	<02a54597$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <20090827085540.de12c38d.darcy@druid.net>

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 09:10:46 +0100
Stephen Fairchild  wrote:
> So why didn't you delete it after you were done with it?
> 
> Class Demo(object):

That should be "class".

>     _classvar = fact(5)
>     del fact()

I suppose you mean "del fact".

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain          |  Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
+1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.


From contact at xavierho.com  Thu Aug 27 08:59:51 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:59:51 +1000
Subject: List iterator thread safety
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908270559h58809a2na75e382c6638e7ac@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 3:43 AM, Emanuele D'Arrigo  wrote:

> Let's say I have a list accessed by two threads, one removing list
> items via "del myList[index]" statement the other iterating through
> the list and printing out the items via "for item in myList:"
> statement.


I tried something similar to that before. Gave me an error. I *think* it was
in compile-time, too, but I might be wrong. The message was something like
that the list size cannot be changed.


> Am I right to say this -won't- generate exceptions because
> the list iterator is not concerned with the list changing in size
> under its nose?


It kind of concerns about the size, I think. If it just checked the "next"
item, that would have been so awesome.


> Or are there pitfalls I should be aware of?


The pitfall is that I don't think it will work at all. At least I haven't
succeeded in doing this in the past.

If you make it work, be sure to share your thoughts =]

Good luck,
-Xav
-------------- next part --------------
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From manu3d at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 09:16:14 2009
From: manu3d at gmail.com (Emanuele D'Arrigo)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 06:16:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Does Class implements Interface?
Message-ID: <800d9226-6bbc-447e-a171-83777a9634b8@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

Greetings everybody,

let's say I have a Class C and I'd like to verify if it implements
Interface I. If I is available to me as a class object I can use
issubclass(C, I) and I can at least verify that I is a superclass of
C. There are a couple of issues with this approach however:

1) C might override not just I's methods code but also I's methods
signatures, effectively changing the interface.
2) What if I is -not- available to me as the superclass of C but as a
description of the interface, i.e. as an IDL(*) file?

Are there resources such as tools, recipes, documents or strategies
that could help me deal with these issues? I've already looked into
the ABC module and the zope.interface. I'm just fishing for more
things to look at.

Manu

(*) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interface_description_language


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Thu Aug 27 09:21:33 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 15:21:33 +0200
Subject: Python on the Web
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<4a94ef42$0$27774$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	
Message-ID: <4a96884b$0$22855$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Phil a ?crit :
(snip)
> However, 99.9% of the discussion I see with Python on
> the web is around FCGI.

May I suggest you spend some time reading django-users and django-dev on 
google groups ? (and that's only *one* of the way-too-many Python web 
frameworks).


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 09:26:04 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 06:26:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: List iterator thread safety
References: 
	
	<14e1469e-bcfe-4922-b135-3f0bd7e17a42@r42g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 27, 5:03?am, "Emanuele D'Arrigo"  wrote:
> On Aug 27, 2:01?am, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
>
> > Well, I'm not sure about exceptions, but you almost certainly won't get
> > the results you want.
>
> What I'd like in this context is to iterate through the items in the
> list without processing the same item twice and without skipping item
> that are in front of the current iterator position. Somehow I can't
> quite prove to myself if this is possible or not over multiple
> threads. I.e. a dictionary will throw an exception about the object
> changing size while iterating through it. A list doesn't, hence the
> question.

Deleting items from a list while iterating over it is a bad idea,
exceptions or not.

Hmm, this sounds like something someone might do for a game.  You have
a list of objects, and in a given time step you have to iterate
through the list and update each object.  Problem is, one of the
enemies is kill before you get to it, so you would like to remove the
object from the list while iterating.  Not an easy problem.

For this simple appeoach, I would suggest writing a custom container
(with an underlying list) with state to keep track of the current
iterating position.  Whenever an item is removed the index is modified
(so as to prevent skipping objects), and because you are keeping track
of the index yourself there is an iterator that might throw an
exception.

With threads, you would need to use a Condition or something to
sychronize access to the object.


Carl Banks


From deets at nospam.web.de  Thu Aug 27 09:27:16 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 15:27:16 +0200
Subject: ubuntu dist-packages
References: 
	<7fki3lF2kirnkU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	<71f5986e-6aae-46b0-8325-d67051c60a30@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7fnftkF2m6bvdU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Paul Boddie wrote:

> On 26 Aug, 17:48, Jorgen Grahn  wrote:
>>
>> Well, if you are thinking about Debian Linux, it's not as much
>> "ripping out" as "splitting into a separate package with a non-obvious
>> name". Annoying at times, but hardly an atrocity.
> 
> Indeed. Having seen two packages today which insisted on setuptools,
> neither really needing it, and with one actively trying to download
> stuff from the Internet (fifteen seconds warning - how generous!) when
> running setup.py, it seems to me that it isn't the distribution
> packagers who need to be re-thinking how they install Python software.
> 
> Generally, distributions have to manage huge amounts of software and
> uphold reasonable policies without creating unnecessary maintenance.
> Sadly, until very recently (and I'm still not entirely sure if there's
> really been an attitude change) the Pythonic packaging brigade has
> refused to even consider the needs of one of the biggest groups of
> consumers of the upstream code. Consequently, distributions will
> always devise different ways of storing installed Python software,
> documentation and resources, mostly because the Pythonic tools have
> been deficient, particularly in the management of the latter
> categories.

You mean it's the problem of the python packaging that it can't deal with
RPMs, debs, tgzs, OSX bundles, MSIs and
? 

Multiplied by the various packaging philosophies the respective distros
build based on these have?

I'm a Python-developer. I develop libraries and tools for Python, and want
others to be able to install these  - as I want to install things *other*
python developers created.

Setuptools let's me do that (most of the time. And I mean most).

If somebody thinks he wants to include these in whatever form he prefers -
fine with me. But it's hardly *my* problem, or that of the Python world in
general, to fulfill the requirements some other people come up with. 


Diez


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Thu Aug 27 09:27:59 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 15:27:59 +0200
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: <02a63e7d$0$15633$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 
	
	<02a63e7d$0$15633$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <200908271527.59982.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Thursday 27 August 2009 11:14:41 Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 08:38:29 +0200, Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:
> > On Wednesday 26 August 2009 17:14:27 kj wrote:
> >> As I described at length in another reply, the function in question is
> >> not intended to be "callable outside the class".  And yes,
> >
> > I think this might go to nub of your problem - It might help you to
> > think as follows:
> >
> > A Python class, even after it has been executed, does not really exist
> > except as a kind of template or pattern - it is mostly useless until an
> > instance of the class is made by calling it with whatever it needs to
> > set up the instance.  And once you have an instance, you can do stuff
> > with that particular instance.  Before that time, the class is mostly
> > just a promise of things to come.
>
> Oh my! I couldn't disagree more strongly! I think the above is totally
> incorrect.

It was intended to help the OP out of the mental hole he finds himself in.

Most of the classes I use fall directly into such a classification - they are 
useless until an instance is created.  And I would be so bold as to say that 
_all_  gui classes are like that. 

This is the pattern I am talking about:

class thing(object):
    def __init__(self,foo,bar):
        stuff to do things with foo and bar,
        creating or modifying attributes of
        the instance.

    def somemethod(self,baz,bling):
        instance method to do further operations on
        the attributes of the instance

Now kindly explain to me how a class like that is usefull before an instance 
of it is created, and I might agree with you that what I said is "totally 
incorrect"

8< --trivial examples showing that there is something there ------------

> Classes are themselves instances of their metaclass. By default, classes
> have a metaclass of type, but you can easily change that. Metaclass
> programming is advanced but very powerful.
>
> Because classes are themselves objects, you can (with a bit of metaclass
> jiggery-pokery) make them do all sorts of interesting things. For
> instance, huge amounts of effort are often put into creating a Singleton
> class, a class that has a single instance. Well, okay... but why not just
> use the class object itself, instead of an instance? There's already one
> of those, and you can't (easily) make a copy of it, and even if you did,
> it would be an independent class. Instead of this:
>
> singleton = SingletonClass(args)
> do_something_with(singleton)
>
> just do this:
>
> do_something_with(SingletonClass)
>
> Of course SingletonClass needs to be designed to work that way, which
> will probably need some metaclass magic. It would be interesting to see
> which requires less effort.

*nods* yes this would make sense - but it is not quite what either the OP or I 
was on about.

>
> When it comes to built-in classes (types), I often use the class object
> itself as an object. E.g. I might do something like this:
>
> def convert(seq):
>     t = type(seq)  # remember the original type
>     result = process(seq)  # always produces a list
>     if t is list:
>         return result  # don't bother making a copy of the result
>     elif t is str or t is unicode:
>         empty = t()
>         return empty.join(result)
>     else:
>         return t(result)  # return the original type

nice.  now try doing it with object:

thing = object()

After that, thing will exist, but it is a bit like write only memory - 
completely useless, until you have done some more work with it.

>
> >> recursive functions in Python *are* restricted in ways that
> >> non-recursive functions aren't.  The examples I've posted prove this
> >> point unambiguously.
> >
> > Yes and no - mostly no -  your examples just illustrate the point I
> > tried to make above.
>
> Completely no. You may have missed the examples I've given, but the
> problems the Original Poster were having had nothing to do with recursion.

The yes was in there to make the man feel a bit better, and because from where 
he stood, it _was_ the recursion that did him in.   : - )

>
> > Pythons object model, and its classes, are different from what you are
> > used to.  A bare class is mostly useless without an instance, which is
> > ultimately why accessing a function in a class from itself like you are
> > doing, without reference to an instance, does not work - the function
> > does not exist yet to a degree that it can be referenced.
>
> That is incorrect. What's going on is more subtle.
>
Right -  I can see that you are reading that to mean that there must be an 
instance.  That is not what I intended to bring across.  I was talking about 
the lack of a reference that is his original problem, which he only 
encountered with recursion.

> >>> class Demo:
>
> ...     def function(x):
> ...         print "Calling function with argument %s" % x
> ...     function(None)
> ...     function(1)
> ...     function(function)
> ...
> Calling function with argument None
> Calling function with argument 1
> Calling function with argument 
>
> >>> Demo
>
> 

two points:

Of what earthly use is a bare class like that - except possibly as a container 
for all the good stuff those functions produced out of nothing?   - You might 
as well use a list, or better a dict, to keep the results of such functions, 
unless the functions are procedures, doing things by side effect - and if 
that is the case, why bother putting them in a class?

Secondly:

Now what you have done is carefully avoided the OP's original problem, which 
arises when the function in the class is called, and tries to call itself at 
the time of execution of the class suite, and fails, for the reasons so 
nicely explained by a lot of people.  So the OP had a point when he 
complained that python does not like recursion, because, until he understands 
what is happening, the simplest theory that fits his observed facts is that 
the failure is caused by the recursion. - a completely rational conclusion 
based on Occam's razor.   It just happens to be wrong in this case.  This was 
the source for my "Yes" above.

This should also work for the OP - I cannot recall if it has been shown:

class Demo(object):
    def fact(x,f):
        if x < 2:
            return 1
        else:
            return x*f(x-1,f)

    thing = fact(42,fact)

I still think it is stupid, though - thing should simply be set to
1405006117752879898543142606244511569936384000000000L
and that would be the end of it for this use case, without the bother of a 
function and the concomitant waste of time.

- Hendrik



From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Thu Aug 27 09:28:20 2009
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 09:28:20 -0400
Subject: Does Class implements Interface?
In-Reply-To: <800d9226-6bbc-447e-a171-83777a9634b8@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <800d9226-6bbc-447e-a171-83777a9634b8@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Emanuele D'Arrigo  wrote:

> Greetings everybody,
>
> let's say I have a Class C and I'd like to verify if it implements
> Interface I. If I is available to me as a class object I can use
> issubclass(C, I) and I can at least verify that I is a superclass of
> C. There are a couple of issues with this approach however:
>
> 1) C might override not just I's methods code but also I's methods
> signatures, effectively changing the interface.
> 2) What if I is -not- available to me as the superclass of C but as a
> description of the interface, i.e. as an IDL(*) file?
>
> Are there resources such as tools, recipes, documents or strategies
> that could help me deal with these issues? I've already looked into
> the ABC module and the zope.interface. I'm just fishing for more
> things to look at.
>
> Manu
>
> (*) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interface_description_language


Python's general philosophy is that it's Easier to Ask Forgiveness than
Permission. Don't check the interface, just assume it's true and wrap the
code block in a try/except in case it isn't.

>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

From anthony.tolle at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 09:36:25 2009
From: anthony.tolle at gmail.com (Anthony Tolle)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 06:36:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Move dictionary from instance to class level
References: 
Message-ID: <705c21b0-2858-46c2-8230-3cea64f5be3a@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

To take things one step further, I would recommend using decorators to
allow symbolic association of functions with the message identifiers,
as follows:

======================================

(MESSAGE_ONE
,MESSAGE_TWO
,MESSAGE_THREE
) = xrange(3)

class MyClass(object):
    method_dict = {}

    # create helper decorator
    register_method = lambda msg, method_dict=method_dict: lambda
function: method_dict.setdefault(msg, function)

    @register_method(MESSAGE_ONE)
    def handle_one(self):
        print 'handling MESSAGE_ONE'

    @register_method(MESSAGE_TWO)
    def handle_two(self):
        print 'handling MESSAGE_TWO'

    @register_method(MESSAGE_THREE)
    def handle_three(self):
        print 'handling MESSAGE_THREE'

    # no longer need helper decorator
    del register_method

    # function to dispatch messages
    def on_message_received(self, msg):
        MyClass.method_dict[msg](self)

x = MyClass()

x.on_message_received(MESSAGE_ONE)
x.on_message_received(MESSAGE_TWO)
x.on_message_received(MESSAGE_THREE)

======================================

Note: the line containing the lambda definition is all one line.


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Thu Aug 27 09:44:35 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 15:44:35 +0200
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: <02a6427a$0$15633$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 
	
	<02a6427a$0$15633$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <200908271544.35328.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Thursday 27 August 2009 11:31:41 Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>
> What you are calculating might actually be quite complicated to enter as
> a literal. You might have something like:

8< ---------- Complicated Table Example -------------------------------

Me?  - never!  I am just an assembler programmer.  I would not touch a thing 
like that with a barge pole.  Unless of course, I have to.

> Clearly this is a made-up example, but the principle is sound. If Python
> can calculate values for you, why not let it do so? It is easier for you,
> easier to check that you've calculated them correctly, easier to debug
> and read, it makes the algorithm clearer (fewer "magic constants"). Yes,
> there is a run-time cost, but you only pay it once, when you import the
> module, and it's likely to be not that much more expensive than parsing
> the literals anyway.
>
> Of course, for something as big and complicated as the above table, I'd
> almost certainly put the code to calculate it in a function outside of
> the class, but that's a matter of style, and it will work to put it
> inside the class.

It is a hell of a thing if it needs recursion to calculate - If it was really 
that complex, I would calculate it, check it (if I can), document it and put 
it in a module of its own, with "This side up", "Fragile", and other warning 
stickers all over it.

- Hendrik



From knurxs at gmx.de  Thu Aug 27 09:49:21 2009
From: knurxs at gmx.de (Michael)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 06:49:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Q: multiprocessing.Queue size limitations or bug...
References:  
	<9a338a3f-33a8-416c-af42-36f596c7cb71@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <24428363-dd55-40de-8fc0-45441c1aab22@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 27, 8:56?am, ryles  wrote:
> On Aug 26, 4:56?am, Michael Riedel 
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Sorry for being not more specific but I'm not absolutely certain whether
> > I encountered a bug or did anything wrong:
>
> > The (stupid) code below results in a stall forever or not at 'p0.join()'
> > depending on the value of TROUBLE_MAKER.
>
> > Any help, thoughts, comments?
>
> > Thank you for your time.
>
> > Michael
>
> > # ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > from multiprocessing import Process, Queue
>
> > # bit vector size
> > BVS=8
>
> > #
> > TROUBLE_MAKER=12 ?# for greater values p0.join() is never satisfied...
>
> > def evaluate(q, id, start=0, stop=2**BVS):
>
> > ? ? cmin = {0: []}
>
> > ? ? for mask0 in range(start, stop):
> > ? ? ? ? for mask1 in range(0, 2**BVS):
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? for mask2 in range(mask1, TROUBLE_MAKER):
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? cmin[0].append((mask0, mask1, mask2))
>
> > ? ? print 'process %d finished (dict layout: %d/%d)...' % (id,
> > len(cmin), len(cmin[0]))
> > ? ? q.put(cmin.copy())
> > ? ? q.close()
>
> > if __name__ == '__main__':
>
> > ? ? q0 = Queue()
> > ? ? q1 = Queue()
> > ? ? q2 = Queue()
> > ? ? q3 = Queue()
>
> > ? ? part = 2**BVS/4
> > ? ? p0 = Process(target=evaluate, args=(q0, 0, 0*part, 1*part),
> > name='worker_0')
> > ? ? p1 = Process(target=evaluate, args=(q1, 1, 1*part, 2*part),
> > name='worker_1')
> > ? ? p2 = Process(target=evaluate, args=(q2, 2, 2*part, 3*part),
> > name='worker_2')
> > ? ? p3 = Process(target=evaluate, args=(q3, 3, 3*part, 4*part),
> > name='worker_3')
> > ? ? p0.start()
> > ? ? print 'process 0 started...'
> > ? ? p1.start()
> > ? ? print 'process 1 started...'
> > ? ? p2.start()
> > ? ? print 'process 2 started...'
> > ? ? p3.start()
> > ? ? print 'process 3 started...'
> > ? ? # main process stalls at p0.join() for bigger TROUBLE_MAKER
> > ? ? p0.join()
> > ? ? p1.join()
> > ? ? p2.join()
> > ? ? p3.join()
> > ? ? res0 = q0.get()
> > ? ? res1 = q1.get()
> > ? ? res2 = q2.get()
> > ? ? res3 = q3.get()
> > ? ? print 'results fetched...'
>
> > # ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > --
>
> There is a warning related to this in the documentation:
>
> http://docs.python.org/library/multiprocessing.html#pipes-and-queues
>
> Basically, you should reverse the order of the get() and join() calls.
>
> multiprocessing does a pretty nice job of abstracting away the low-
> level details of IPC, but there are still some gotchas. As you've
> noticed, your program will deadlock when there is a large enough
> amount of data being put into the queue. This is related to a hidden
> thread that exists inside each of your child processes. The thread is
> responsible for taking your queue items from an internal buffer and
> then writing them into a pipe that your parent process will read from
> when get() is called. The pipe mechanism is what allows the two
> processes to pass information, and is supported directly by the
> Operating System. However, the pipe has a limited capacity, and when
> it is full, the writer thread is stuck waiting for the reader to read
> enough from the pipe so that it can finish its write. The problem is
> that your parent process (reader) is not actually calling get() to
> drain the pipe. Instead it's stuck in join() waiting for the writer to
> complete.

I see. I really appreciate your valuable feedback.


From no.email at please.post  Thu Aug 27 09:53:07 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 13:53:07 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 		
	
	<4a967b2f$0$19301$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: 

In <4a967b2f$0$19301$426a74cc at news.free.fr> Bruno Desthuilliers  writes:

>The only thing one is entitled to expect when learning a new language is 
>that the language's implementation follows the language specs.

In fact, the official docs, when they discuss scopes, are off to
a bad start:

  Names refer to objects. Names are introduced by name binding
  operations. Each occurrence of a name in the program text refers
  to the binding of that name established in the innermost function
  block containing the use.

The first paragraph implies that binding can only occur within
functions, which is either incorrect, or presupposes a definition
of "function" that is not what most programmers would recognize.

In general, I found the docs very unclear on the subject of scoping.
PEP 227 is much better, but I wouldn't have thought of it as "the
specs".

kynn


From szport at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 10:00:57 2009
From: szport at gmail.com (zaur)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 07:00:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Object's nesting scope
References: 
	<7fkqodF2llnghU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<1ea2a98f-4035-4ec6-b5a9-06b21dd6f584@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

On 26 ???, 23:56, MRAB  wrote:
> zaur wrote:
> > On 26 ???, 21:11, "Rami Chowdhury"  wrote:
> >>> person = Person():
> >>> ? name = "john"
> >>> ? age = 30
> >>> ? address = Address():
> >>> ? ? ?street = "Green Street"
> >>> ? ? ?no = 12
> >> Can you clarify what you mean? Would that define a Person class, and an ?
> >> Address class?
> > I suppose that someone already define classes Person ans Address.
> > For example, in this stupid way in a foreign module:
>
> > class Person(object):
> > ? ?pass
>
> > class Address(object):
> > ? ?pass
>
> > and the following statements
>
> > person = Person():
> > ? ?name = "john"
> > ? ?age = 30
> > ? ?address = Address():
> > ? ? ? street = "Green Street"
> > ? ? ? no = 12
>
> > are constructing an instance as follows:
>
> > person = Person()
> > person.name = "john"
> > person.age = 30
> > address = person.address = Address()
> > address.street = "Green Street"
> > address.no = 12
>
> [snip]
>
> Create factory functions:
>
> def new_address(**kwargs):
> ? ? ?address = Address()
> ? ? ?address.__dict__.update(kwargs)
> ? ? ?return address
>
> def new_person(**kwargs):
> ? ? ?person = Person()
> ? ? ?person.__dict__.update(kwargs)
> ? ? ?return person
>
> person = new_person(name="john", age=30,
> address=new_address(street="Green Street", no=12))

Original idea isn't about how to organize my code in order to
initialize these custom objects.
The idea is about to use object's dictionary as nested scope.


From paul at boddie.org.uk  Thu Aug 27 10:05:51 2009
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 07:05:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ubuntu dist-packages
References:  
	<7fki3lF2kirnkU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	 
	<71f5986e-6aae-46b0-8325-d67051c60a30@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> 
	<7fnftkF2m6bvdU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <0298b834-78b4-4501-a09b-9b8da5e796c1@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>

On 27 Aug, 15:27, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
>
> You mean it's the problem of the python packaging that it can't deal with
> RPMs, debs, tgzs, OSX bundles, MSIs and
> ?

No, it's the problem of the Pythonic packaging brigade that package
retrieval, building and installing is combined into one unsatisfactory
whole. Certainly, it's annoying to discover when building some
extension that the Python headers are missing, but the rhetorical
vehicle used in the Python community is to frame the distributions as
people who like to move stuff around unnecessarily and to corrupt
other people's work. In fact, the distributions have proven themselves
to be quite competent at managing huge numbers of software packages in
a semi-automated fashion, so it's baffling that people doing work on
Pythonic packaging tools wouldn't want to learn as much as they can
about how those people manage it.

For me, when making Debian packages, it has become easier to use the
debhelper stuff to install things like documentation and resources
than it is to figure out which special options have to be passed to
the particular distutils incarnation of the setup function in order to
get such stuff put in the right place, especially since distutils
probably still employs an ad-hoc 1990s proprietary UNIX "oh just dump
that stuff in some directory or other and forget about it" mentality.
Really, distutils should be all about *dist*ribution and even then get
out of the way as much as possible - the hard stuff is extracting the
appropriate knowledge about the built Python interpreter in order to
build extensions. Installation should be left to something which has
an opinion about where things should be placed on a particular system,
and which has the capability to know how to uninstall stuff - a
capability which never seems to get any closer in the distutils scene.

Paul


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Thu Aug 27 10:25:54 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 16:25:54 +0200
Subject: List iterator thread safety
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<14e1469e-bcfe-4922-b135-3f0bd7e17a42@r42g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <200908271625.54609.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Thursday 27 August 2009 15:26:04 Carl Banks wrote:

> Deleting items from a list while iterating over it is a bad idea,
> exceptions or not.
>
> Hmm, this sounds like something someone might do for a game.  You have
> a list of objects, and in a given time step you have to iterate
> through the list and update each object.  Problem is, one of the
> enemies is kill before you get to it, so you would like to remove the
> object from the list while iterating.  Not an easy problem.

Its not too bad - if you crook a bit - the trick is that you iterate over the 
list backwards when you are removing stuff based on index, so that the 
remainder does not get jumbled up by losing their positions, as happens when 
you do it going forwards.

- Hendrik


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 10:34:17 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 07:34:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Object's nesting scope
References: 
Message-ID: <2751e263-ace0-4649-997c-1302d0f3b320@m20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 26, 5:51?am, zaur  wrote:
> Hi folk!
>
> What do you think about idea of "object's nesting scope" in python?
>
> Let's imaging this feature, for example, in this syntax:
>
> obj=:
> ? ? ?
>
> or
>
> :
> ? ?
>
> That's means that result object of  evaluation is used as
> nested scope for  evaluation.
>
> So is this idea useful?

It might be marginally useful to save typing.  The idea has been
discussed in various forms here quite a bit over the years.  I doubt
there's any chance it'll be accepted into Python, because it goes
against one of the main design points of Python: that attributes
should always be accessed explicitly.

Having said that, the syntax you propose is awful. :) Normally when
this is proposed they use a keyword such as "using":

p = Person()
using p:
    name = "Carl Banks"
    location = "Los Angeles"

or, perhaps to save a line (even though it'd be a minor syntax abuse):

using Person() as p:
    name = "Carl Banks"
    location = "Los Angeles"


Carl Banks


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Thu Aug 27 10:39:24 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 16:39:24 +0200
Subject: Parse xml file
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4a969a9c$0$32665$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>

loial wrote:
> Is there a quick way to retrieve data from an xml file in python 2.4,
> rather than read the whole file?

ElementTree is available as an external package for Py2.4 (and it's in the
stdlib xml.etree package since 2.5).

It's pretty much the easiest way to get data out of XML files.

If your statement "rather than read the whole file" was referring to the
file size, note that the C implementation "cElementTree" of ElementTree is
very memory efficient, so you might still get away with just reading the
whole file into memory. There's also the iterparse() function which
supports iterative parsing of an XML file and thus allows intermediate
cleanup of used data.

Stefan


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 10:50:16 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 07:50:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: List iterator thread safety
References: 
	<14e1469e-bcfe-4922-b135-3f0bd7e17a42@r42g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> 
	 
	
Message-ID: <6bf89e55-2ddd-435f-925d-7cc3827c0f9a@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 27, 7:25?am, Hendrik van Rooyen 
wrote:
> On Thursday 27 August 2009 15:26:04 Carl Banks wrote:
>
> > Deleting items from a list while iterating over it is a bad idea,
> > exceptions or not.
>
> > Hmm, this sounds like something someone might do for a game. ?You have
> > a list of objects, and in a given time step you have to iterate
> > through the list and update each object. ?Problem is, one of the
> > enemies is kill before you get to it, so you would like to remove the
> > object from the list while iterating. ?Not an easy problem.
>
> Its not too bad - if you crook a bit - the trick is that you iterate over the
> list backwards when you are removing stuff based on index, so that the
> remainder does not get jumbled up by losing their positions, as happens when
> you do it going forwards.

That's only if you remove the "current item".  The OP has different
threads accessing the list at the same time, so I have to assume that
item being remove is not necessarily the current iteration.


Getting back to the game example, suppose your "list of objects in the
scene" looks like this:

[ HandsomeHero, Enemy1, Bullet1, Enemy2, Bullet2, Enemy3]

It might happen that Bullet1.update() detects a collision with Enemy2,
thus killing Enemy2, which means Enemy2 would have to be removed
before the next iteration.  Otherwise you're updating a zombie.
(Which, parenthetically, is another approach.)

Conversely, suppose Bullet2.update() detects a collision with Enemy1,
and Enemy1 is removed from the list.  Then Enemy3 is going to be
skipped.

In order to handle both cases (where an item could be removed ahead of
or before the current item), you have to keep track of the current
index and adjust it.  A list iterator won't work.


For the record, I use a more sophisticated system that explicitly
resolves cause and effect in my games.  That's probably beyond the
scope of this thread, though.


Carl Banks


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Thu Aug 27 10:59:47 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 16:59:47 +0200
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: <02a66947$0$15633$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 
	
	
	
	<02a66947$0$15633$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

14:17:15 Steven D'Aprano  wrote:

> The class is a scope, and inside the class scope, you can access local
> names. What you can't do is access the class scope from inside nested
> functions.

s/from inside nested functions/from inside nested scopes

Besides that detail, I fully agree.

*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From szport at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 11:01:14 2009
From: szport at gmail.com (zaur)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 08:01:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Object's nesting scope
References: 
	<2751e263-ace0-4649-997c-1302d0f3b320@m20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On 27 ???, 18:34, Carl Banks  wrote:
> On Aug 26, 5:51?am, zaur  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi folk!
>
> > What do you think about idea of "object's nesting scope" in python?
>
> > Let's imaging this feature, for example, in this syntax:
>
> > obj=:
> > ? ? ?
>
> > or
>
> > :
> > ? ?
>
> > That's means that result object of  evaluation is used as
> > nested scope for  evaluation.
>
> > So is this idea useful?
>
> It might be marginally useful to save typing.
It also allow to structure the code.

> The idea has been
> discussed in various forms here quite a bit over the years. ?I doubt
> there's any chance it'll be accepted into Python, because it goes
> against one of the main design points of Python: that attributes
> should always be accessed explicitly.
I don't in general consider this idea as a way for implicit access to
object's attributes.
Idea is about to use in some way object's dictionary as nested scope
in a code block.

I agree though that using this only for saving typing or implicit
attribute access isn't a good idea.

> Having said that, the syntax you propose is awful. :) Normally when
> this is proposed they use a keyword such as "using":
>
> p = Person()
> using p:
> ? ? name = "Carl Banks"
> ? ? location = "Los Angeles"
>
> or, perhaps to save a line (even though it'd be a minor syntax abuse):
>
> using Person() as p:
> ? ? name = "Carl Banks"
> ? ? location = "Los Angeles"
I don't propose concrete syntax for using object's dictionary as
nested scope.
I used current only to explain the idea.



From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 11:19:04 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 08:19:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Object's nesting scope
References: 
	<2751e263-ace0-4649-997c-1302d0f3b320@m20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: <03269cff-acd9-401a-b98d-0b1136b0d2e0@s13g2000yql.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 27, 8:01?am, zaur  wrote:
> On 27 ???, 18:34, Carl Banks  wrote:
> > The idea has been
> > discussed in various forms here quite a bit over the years. ?I doubt
> > there's any chance it'll be accepted into Python, because it goes
> > against one of the main design points of Python: that attributes
> > should always be accessed explicitly.
>
> I don't in general consider this idea as a way for implicit access to
> object's attributes.

That's what is it regardless of what you consider it.

> Idea is about to use in some way object's dictionary as nested scope
> in a code block.

Which is implicitly accessing the object's attributes.


Carl Banks


From davea at ieee.org  Thu Aug 27 11:43:22 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 11:43:22 -0400
Subject: Move dictionary from instance to class level
In-Reply-To: <20090827102111.ABC3B1F93@ctb-mesg4.saix.net>
References: <20090827102111.ABC3B1F93@ctb-mesg4.saix.net>
Message-ID: <4A96A99A.1090100@ieee.org>

Frank Millman wrote:
> Dave Angel wrote: 
>   
>> Frank Millman wrote:
>>     
>>> That is definitely *not* what I want to do.
>>>
>>> I want to make the server as generic as possible, so that 
>>>       
>> it can handle any
>>     
>>> type of client, hopefully even including a browser 
>>>       
>> eventually. Therefore the
>>     
>>> server has no knowledge of wxPython event types.
>>>
>>> I have abstracted all the event types I am interested in 
>>>       
>> (the list is fairly
>>     
>>> stable now). My protocol requires that the client maps a 
>>>       
>> specific gui event
>>     
>>> type to a message identifier, and the server maps the 
>>>       
>> message identifier to
>>     
>>> a method that handles the message.
>>>
>>> Hope that makes sense.
>>>
>>> Frank
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>>>       
>> Yes, it makes sense. Sorry for heading down that particular 
>> dead-end.  
>> But the more I think about it, the more likely I think it is 
>> that you'll 
>> be adding new message types, even if they're just variants of ones 
>> already defined.  So it might behoove you to have a shared "data 
>> structure" that describes the whole message, not just equates 
>> a name to 
>> an integer.
>>
>> Or consider pickling.  I don't know the tradeoffs, but the 
>> idea is that 
>> an object is constructed at the other end that has all the same data 
>> members as the object you had at this end.  Perhaps with a flexible 
>> enough class definition, you could represent all or at least 
>> several of 
>> your messages with the same object.
>>
>> I am curious about your topology.  You're sending events from 
>> the client 
>> (which presumably has a mouse and keyboard) to a server.  But 
>> what does 
>> the server do with those?  Does it have its own screen, or what?
>>
>>     
>
> I'll try to explain.
>
> I am writing a fairly standard business/accounting application. (I am now
> adding Business Process Management to it, which is complicating matters, but
> that is another story.)
>
> Most of the gui stuff is basic forms processing - screens with static data,
> text fields for display and input of data, and buttons for signifying
> certain actions to be taken.
>
> My original attempt had both the gui and the business logic running on the
> client, with a connection to a database running on a server. It worked, but
> then I realised it was very insecure - it would be easy to hack the python
> code, bypass the business logic, and allow any update to the database.
>
> So my second attempt took all the business logic out of the client and put
> it onto the server. To execute a form, the server builds a form definition
> by creating objects to represent each of the widgets, creates a list of the
> components with sufficient information for the client to render them , then
> sends a json'd copy of the list to the client, which interprets it and
> displays the required form. The client informs the server of each event, and
> the server handles the event in much the same way as it did before when the
> business logic was on the client.
>
> For example, clicking a button triggers a response which could involve
> updating the database, displaying another window with additional data, etc,
> etc. Previously there would have been a method on the client designed to
> handle the response, and the method would be added to the button constructor
> so that it would be called when the button was clicked.
>
> Now the method is on the server, and is stored as an attribute of the button
> object on the server. When the user clicks the button, the message is passed
> up to the server (each widget has its own id, which is part of the message),
> the server is notified that the button was clicked, and it calls the
> associated method.
>
> There is a lot more to it than that, but hopefully that will give you an
> idea.
>
> If I ever get this to a workable state (it is taking far longer than I
> anticipated) I will release it as open source, and will then welcome as much
> feedback as possible.
>
> Frank
>
>
>   
OK, that makes good sense.  And I withdraw any suggestion to use 
pickling, since that could be subject to hacking.

It now appears that the messages are only incidentally GUI events.  And 
that you would be well advised to make every possible event a separate 
message, so that if the server state and the client state get out of 
synch, you can readily check and reject such operations.  For example, 
you'd have a message for pressing the SUBMIT button on a particular 
form, but you'd have different message types for other buttons on the 
same form, or for SUBMIT on other forms.

DaveA


From szport at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 11:43:55 2009
From: szport at gmail.com (zaur)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 08:43:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Object's nesting scope
References: 
	<2751e263-ace0-4649-997c-1302d0f3b320@m20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com> 
	 
	<03269cff-acd9-401a-b98d-0b1136b0d2e0@s13g2000yql.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2c78ef30-3af6-45bd-b772-e09d895b0cd8@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On 27 ???, 19:19, Carl Banks  wrote:
> On Aug 27, 8:01?am, zaur  wrote:
>
> > On 27 ???, 18:34, Carl Banks  wrote:
> > > The idea has been
> > > discussed in various forms here quite a bit over the years. ?I doubt
> > > there's any chance it'll be accepted into Python, because it goes
> > > against one of the main design points of Python: that attributes
> > > should always be accessed explicitly.
>
> > I don't in general consider this idea as a way for implicit access to
> > object's attributes.
>
> That's what is it regardless of what you consider it.
>
> > Idea is about to use in some way object's dictionary as nested scope
> > in a code block.
>
> Which is implicitly accessing the object's attributes.
>
> Carl Banks

In my opinion idea of using object's dictionary as nested scope is
more about structuring code blocks rather than just saving typing and
implicit attribute access.


From cournape at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 11:45:01 2009
From: cournape at gmail.com (David Cournapeau)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 10:45:01 -0500
Subject: ubuntu dist-packages
In-Reply-To: <7fnftkF2m6bvdU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: 
	<7fki3lF2kirnkU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	<71f5986e-6aae-46b0-8325-d67051c60a30@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<7fnftkF2m6bvdU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <5b8d13220908270845g67bb8d05w1dda70f433e29914@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 8:27 AM, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> Paul Boddie wrote:
>
>> On 26 Aug, 17:48, Jorgen Grahn  wrote:
>>>
>>> Well, if you are thinking about Debian Linux, it's not as much
>>> "ripping out" as "splitting into a separate package with a non-obvious
>>> name". Annoying at times, but hardly an atrocity.
>>
>> Indeed. Having seen two packages today which insisted on setuptools,
>> neither really needing it, and with one actively trying to download
>> stuff from the Internet (fifteen seconds warning - how generous!) when
>> running setup.py, it seems to me that it isn't the distribution
>> packagers who need to be re-thinking how they install Python software.
>>
>> Generally, distributions have to manage huge amounts of software and
>> uphold reasonable policies without creating unnecessary maintenance.
>> Sadly, until very recently (and I'm still not entirely sure if there's
>> really been an attitude change) the Pythonic packaging brigade has
>> refused to even consider the needs of one of the biggest groups of
>> consumers of the upstream code. Consequently, distributions will
>> always devise different ways of storing installed Python software,
>> documentation and resources, mostly because the Pythonic tools have
>> been deficient, particularly in the management of the latter
>> categories.
>
> You mean it's the problem of the python packaging that it can't deal with
> RPMs, debs, tgzs, OSX bundles, MSIs and
> ?

Of course it is - not because distutils should know about them but on
the contrary because it should be possible to tweak the installation
parameters to accomodate the various packaging solutions. Autotools,
cmake, etc... do not need anything about rpm, debian, msi, and yet,
they can be used to that purpose.

cheers,

David


From diesch at spamfence.net  Thu Aug 27 11:54:03 2009
From: diesch at spamfence.net (Florian Diesch)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 17:54:03 +0200
Subject: ubuntu dist-packages
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

Robin Becker  writes:

> Florian Diesch wrote:
> .........
>>
>>>From /usr/lib/python2.6/site.py:
>>
>> ,----
>> | For Debian and derivatives, this sys.path is augmented with directories
>> | for packages distributed within the distribution. Local addons go
>> | into /usr/local/lib/python/dist-packages, Debian addons
>> | install into /usr/{lib,share}/python/dist-packages.
>> | /usr/lib/python/site-packages is not used.
>> `----
>
> the above is not present in my windows documentation (or indeed
> site.py) at all so it seems they just decided to change the
> name. Anyone trying to debug why their distutils or setuptools or
> whichever python packager is going wrong will have yet another detail
> to remember. 

setuptools works fine for me in Ubuntu 9.04; eggs go to
/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/ like they should according to site.py

> In addition, as any one who has done such trivial changes
> will already know, they forgot to do it globally eg my 0.4.1.0 version
> of the "Debian Python Policy" document explicitly mentions
> site-packages.

It's a change for the Python 2.6 package, see

and /usr/lib/python2.5/site.py

Python 2.6 is only in Debian experimental, I guess there is a new
version of the Debian Python Policy coming.



   Florian
-- 



From phily05 at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 11:58:19 2009
From: phily05 at gmail.com (Phil)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 08:58:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python on the Web
References: 
	<4a94ef42$0$27774$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	
	<4a96884b$0$22855$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <1b7a2f45-dd10-4722-a9d8-8c6d2464e4d6@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

Thanks Graham. I actually ended up reading that blog post from a
Google search last night before I saw your response. It was very
informative.

Bruno, I will take a look at those groups to expand my knowledge. When
I gave that arbitrary percentage, I was basing it off of the
information I had seen with regards to launching applications built
with existing frameworks using lighttpd. I do realize I was missing a
lot of information by looking up something that specific. I also
understand that there are enough frameworks. That still won't change
my mind. I do not want to write a web application, otherwise I would
use an existing framework as suggested. I just wanted to experiment
and see what kind of framework I could develop with some ideas I had
in mind. The original post was mostly just because I was having a
difficulty understanding some lower level concepts as a result of
trying to get Python 3 on the web before figuring out that it wasn't
quite ready for that. I just really like some of the new features of
Python 3, and most importantly, unicode compliance is just that much
straight forward in my opinion.


From robin_v at bigpond.com  Thu Aug 27 12:07:20 2009
From: robin_v at bigpond.com (robin)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 16:07:20 GMT
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10
References: 
	
	
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
Message-ID: 

"James Harris"  wrote in message
news:bc3607b3-7fdd-43fd-8ede-66ac3f597403 at 32g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
On 22 Aug, 10:27, David <71da... at libero.it> wrote:

>They look good - which is important. The trouble (for me) is that I
>want the notation for a new programming language and already use these
>characters. I have underscore as an optional separator for groups of
>digits - 123000 and 123_000 mean the same. The semicolon terminates a
>statement. Based on your second idea, though, maybe a colon could be
>used instead as in

XPL uses "(2)1011" for base 4,
"(3)03212" for octal,
"(4)0741" for base 16.

PL/I uses 8FXN for numeric hex and X suffix for a hex character constant.






From sylvain.thenault at logilab.fr  Thu Aug 27 12:10:22 2009
From: sylvain.thenault at logilab.fr (Sylvain =?utf-8?B?VGjDqW5hdWx0?=)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 18:10:22 +0200
Subject: [ANN] pylint 0.18.1 / astng 0.19.1
Message-ID: <20090827161022.GF4791@lupus.logilab.fr>

Hi there,

I'm pleased to announce a new bug fixes release of pylint and astng.
To see what have been fixed and to download it (unless your using 
debian, ubuntu or easy_install of course :), check:

http://www.logilab.org/project/pylint/0.18.1
http://www.logilab.org/project/logilab-astng/0.19.1

-- 
Sylvain Th?nault                               LOGILAB, Paris (France)
Formations Python, Debian, M?th. Agiles: http://www.logilab.fr/formations
D?veloppement logiciel sur mesure:       http://www.logilab.fr/services
CubicWeb, the semantic web framework:    http://www.cubicweb.org



From robert.kern at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 12:16:41 2009
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 11:16:41 -0500
Subject: Overriding iadd for dictionary like objects
In-Reply-To: <21e57363-4e92-41cb-9907-5aef96ad0a6e@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: 		
	
	<21e57363-4e92-41cb-9907-5aef96ad0a6e@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-27 01:49 AM, RunThePun wrote:

> Anybody have any more ideas? I think python should/could havev a
> syntax for overriding this behaviour, i mean, obviously the complexity
> of supporting all operators with the getitem syntax could introduce
> alot of clutter. But maybe there's an elegant solution out there...

I would recommend just adding a method to MyDict that does exactly what you want.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From robert.kern at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 12:26:31 2009
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 11:26:31 -0500
Subject: [OT] How do I reply to a thread by sending a message to
	python-list@python.org
In-Reply-To: 
References: <20090827073102.293C91DF2@ctb-mesg8.saix.net>	<4A964C3B.8090206@ieee.org>
	
	
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-27 07:41 AM, David House wrote:
> 2009/8/27 Terry Reedy:
>> reply-all may send duplicate messages to the author. Not sure of this list.
>
> I'm fairly sure Mailman deals with that.

Many of us read from comp.lang.python for gmane.comp.python.general. I do not 
appreciate getting reply emails to my inbox.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From shashank.sunny.singh at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 12:39:06 2009
From: shashank.sunny.singh at gmail.com (Shashank Singh)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:09:06 +0530
Subject: (Simple?) Unicode Question
Message-ID: <332972a20908270939m57be4e51tc5785b880ec642b3@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All!

I have a very simple (and probably stupid) question eluding me.
When exactly is the char-set information needed?

To make my question clear consider reading a file.
While reading a file, all I get is basically an array of bytes.

Now suppose a file has 10 bytes in it (all is data, no metadata,
forget the BOM and stuff for a little while). I read it into an array of 10
bytes, replace, say, 2nd bytes and write all the bytes back to a new
file.

Do i need the character encoding mumbo jumbo anywhere in this?

Further, does anything, except a printing device need to know the
encoding of a piece of "text"? I mean, as long as we are not trying
to get a symbolic representation of a "text" or get "i"th character
of it, all we need to do is to carry the intended encoding as
an auxiliary information to the data stored as byte array.

Right?

--shashank
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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From davea at ieee.org  Thu Aug 27 12:42:10 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 12:42:10 -0400
Subject: About diagram and python
In-Reply-To: <030422b7-a4f8-4ea6-8708-4486da4cf595@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
References: <030422b7-a4f8-4ea6-8708-4486da4cf595@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A96B762.7030209@ieee.org>

catalinfest at gmail.com wrote:
> Hello!
> I see on my Diagram Editor software this :
> File -> Export... -> (on  Export option is : PyDia Code
> Generation ... .py)
> What python is in this file ?
> How help me with python code ?
> Thank you !
>
>   
And when I start my car the radio is tuned to the wrong station.  Could 
somebody tell me how to change the tubes on it?  Or maybe I have a flat 
tire?

When asking a question, give enough information that somebody has a 
chance of answering it.  Otherwise you're wasting your time and ours.

There are hundreds of "diagram editors" out there.  Brand, version, 
maybe the URL to a website to download it.


DaveA


From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 12:44:41 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 09:44:41 -0700
Subject: (Simple?) Unicode Question
In-Reply-To: <332972a20908270939m57be4e51tc5785b880ec642b3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <332972a20908270939m57be4e51tc5785b880ec642b3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

> Further, does anything, except a printing device need to know the
> encoding of a piece of "text"?

I may be wrong, but I believe that's part of the idea between separation  
of string and bytes types in Python 3.x. I believe, if you are using  
Python 3.x, you don't need the character encoding mumbo jumbo at all ;-)

If you're using Python 2.x, though, I believe if you simply set the file  
opening mode to binary then data you read() should still be treated as an  
array of bytes, although you may encounter issues trying to access the  
n'th character.

Please do correct me if I'm wrong, anyone.

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 09:39:06 -0700, Shashank Singh  
 wrote:

> Hi All!
>
> I have a very simple (and probably stupid) question eluding me.
> When exactly is the char-set information needed?
>
> To make my question clear consider reading a file.
> While reading a file, all I get is basically an array of bytes.
>
> Now suppose a file has 10 bytes in it (all is data, no metadata,
> forget the BOM and stuff for a little while). I read it into an array of  
> 10
> bytes, replace, say, 2nd bytes and write all the bytes back to a new
> file.
>
> Do i need the character encoding mumbo jumbo anywhere in this?
>
> Further, does anything, except a printing device need to know the
> encoding of a piece of "text"? I mean, as long as we are not trying
> to get a symbolic representation of a "text" or get "i"th character
> of it, all we need to do is to carry the intended encoding as
> an auxiliary information to the data stored as byte array.
>
> Right?
>
> --shashank



-- 
Rami Chowdhury
"Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --  
Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)


From invalid at invalid  Thu Aug 27 12:47:41 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 11:47:41 -0500
Subject: [OT] How do I reply to a thread by sending a message to
	python-list@python.org
References: <20090827073102.293C91DF2@ctb-mesg8.saix.net>
	<4A964C3B.8090206@ieee.org> 
	
	
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-27, Robert Kern  wrote:
> On 2009-08-27 07:41 AM, David House wrote:
>> 2009/8/27 Terry Reedy:
>>> reply-all may send duplicate messages to the author. Not sure of this list.
>>
>> I'm fairly sure Mailman deals with that.
>
> Many of us read from comp.lang.python or gmane.comp.python.general.
> I do not appreciate getting reply emails to my inbox.

Same here.  I haven't noticed it happening much for c.l.p, but
on some other lists it seems to be a common (and annoying)
practice.  For those lists, I usually set up e-mail filters for
those lists to route such replys to /dev/null.  I haven't yet
done so for c.l.p...

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! I just forgot my whole
                                  at               philosophy of life!!!
                               visi.com            


From marduk at letterboxes.org  Thu Aug 27 12:49:36 2009
From: marduk at letterboxes.org (Albert Hopkins)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 12:49:36 -0400
Subject: (Simple?) Unicode Question
In-Reply-To: <332972a20908270939m57be4e51tc5785b880ec642b3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <332972a20908270939m57be4e51tc5785b880ec642b3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1251391776.79209.5.camel@centar.nbk>

On Thu, 2009-08-27 at 22:09 +0530, Shashank Singh wrote:
> Hi All!
> 
> I have a very simple (and probably stupid) question eluding me.
> When exactly is the char-set information needed?
> 
> To make my question clear consider reading a file.
> While reading a file, all I get is basically an array of bytes.
> 
> Now suppose a file has 10 bytes in it (all is data, no metadata,
> forget the BOM and stuff for a little while). I read it into an array
> of 10
> bytes, replace, say, 2nd bytes and write all the bytes back to a new
> file. 
> 
> Do i need the character encoding mumbo jumbo anywhere in this?
> 
> Further, does anything, except a printing device need to know the
> encoding of a piece of "text"? I mean, as long as we are not trying
> to get a symbolic representation of a "text" or get "i"th character
> of it, all we need to do is to carry the intended encoding as
> an auxiliary information to the data stored as byte array.

If you are just reading and writing bytes then you are just reading and
writing bytes.  Where you need to worry about unicode, etc. is when you
start treating a series of bytes as TEXT (e.g. how many *characters* are
in this byte array).* 

This is no different, IMO, than treating a byte stream vs a image file.
You don't, need to worry about resolution, palette, bit-depth, etc. if
you are only treating as a stream of bytes.  The only difference between
the two is that in Python "unicode" is a built-in type and "image"
isn't ;)

* Just make sure that if you are manipulating byte streams independent
of it's textual representation that you open files, e.g., in binary
mode.

-a




From davea at ieee.org  Thu Aug 27 12:52:53 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 12:52:53 -0400
Subject: [OT] How do I reply to a thread by sending a message to
	python-list@python.org
In-Reply-To: <2d56febf0908270326p58adda54w306eb823710bb952@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090827073102.293C91DF2@ctb-mesg8.saix.net>	<4A964C3B.8090206@ieee.org>
	<2d56febf0908270326p58adda54w306eb823710bb952@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A96B9E5.3030709@ieee.org>

Xavier Ho wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 7:04 PM, Dave Angel  wrote:
>
>   
> 
>   
Thanks for those pointers.
>> For example, I see a single message containing typically around 10
>> attachments.  I do the reply-all to one of these attachments, and it handles
>> the message body okay, the To/CC fields okay,
>>     
>
>
> What do you mean 10 attachments? O_o. I know some people like to attach a
> company logo in their signature. (The Aussie DLF list people do that heaps.
> Although some people post a hand-written sig in the attachment ... I'm not
> sure how smart that is, but I've seen it done.) Where are you getting these
> "attachments"?
>
>   
The message is a "digest" containing between 1 and 20 messages.  The 
"index" is in the main message, and all the actual messages are encoded 
as attachments.  I also see actual attachments, and sometimes signatures 
as attachments.  But the ones I'm talking about have extension .eml.
> I haven't tried reply-all yet. May give that a try next time and see what
> pops up in the To: address.
>
>
>   
>> usually adds an extra RE: on the subject (so it becomes RE: RE: subject).
>>     
>
>
> Gmail doesn't do that. Yay! (Re: is dumb anyway, and you can't prepend Re:
> forever. Fwd: is reasonable.)
>
>
>   
If I have a direct message with a Re: at the beginning, Thunderbird does 
not add an extra one to my reply subject.  Only when I'm doing it on one 
of these attachments.
> 
>  I didn't know ** marks bold. Does __ mark underline? Those are cool things
> I never hear about. Thanks!
>
>   
I don't know about any others other than *bold* text.  And I don't know 
if it shows up in everyone's viewer that way, or just some.

DaveA


From josefg at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 13:04:38 2009
From: josefg at gmail.com (josef)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 10:04:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Object Reference question
References: <2dcf41c3-6623-48d9-bb74-97f753088479@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <9feee13c-117e-4806-b238-e4152a68adfb@18g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

Thanks to everyone who responded.

I will be going with some sort of a = MyClass(name = 'a') format. It's
the Python way.

For me, it was very hard to accept that EVERYTHING is an object
reference. And that there are no object reference names, just string
entries in dictionaries. But I think it all makes sense now.

Thanks again,

Josef


On Aug 21, 1:07?am, josef  wrote:
> To begin, I'm new with python. I've read a few discussions about
> object references and I think I understand them.
>
> To be clear, Python uses a "Pass By Object Reference" model.
> x = 1
> x becomes the object reference, while an object is created with the
> type 'int', value 1, and identifier (id(x)). Doing this with a class,
> x = myclass(), does the same thing, but with more or less object
> attributes. Every object has a type and an identifier (id()),
> according to the Python Language Reference for 2.6.2 section 3.1.
>
> x in both cases is the object reference. I would like to use the
> object to refer to the object reference. If I have a gross
> misunderstanding, please correct me.
>
> The following is what I would like to do:
> I have a list of class instances dk = [ a, b, c, d ], where a, b, c, d
> is an object reference. Entering dk gives me the object: [MyClass0
> instance at 0x0000, MyClass1 instance at 0x0008, MyClass2 instance at
> 0x0010 ... ]
>
> I need the object reference name (a,b,c,d) from dk to use as input for
> a file. Where do I find the memory location of the object reference
> and the object reference name memory location? I am unconcerned with
> the fact that the memory location will change the next time I run a
> python session. I will be using the object reference name for
> processing right away.
>
> My main focus of this post is: "How do I find and use object reference
> memory locations?"
>
> Thoughts?
> Thanks,
>
> Josef



From milesck at umich.edu  Thu Aug 27 13:27:40 2009
From: milesck at umich.edu (Miles Kaufmann)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 10:27:40 -0700
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <13DD6BD6-A688-4870-AA57-8FCF1A122C5A@umich.edu>

On Aug 26, 2009, at 1:11 PM, kj wrote:
> I think I understand the answers well enough.  What I *really*
> don't understand is why this particular "feature" of Python (i.e.
> that functions defined within a class statement are forbidden from
> "seeing" other identifiers defined within the class statement) is
> generally considered to be perfectly OK.  IMO it's a bizarre,
> inexplicable blindspot (which, among other things, gives rise to
> a certain worry about what other similar craziness lurks under
> Python's image of rationality).  I have never seen even a half-hearted
> justification, from a language design point of view, for why this
> particular "feature" is worth having.

Guido's design justifications:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2000-November/010598.html

--

My personal justification:

Python has used the same basic method of class creation since the very  
beginning: create a new local namespace, execute the class suite in  
that namespace, and then create a class, using the contents of the  
namespace as the class attributes.  The important thing to note here  
is that there are really *two* namespaces--the local namespace that  
exists while the class suite is being executed (what I call the "suite  
namespace"), and the namespace of the class itself--and the first  
ceases to exist when the second is created.  The two namespaces  
generally contain the same names at the point that the transfer  
occurs, but they don't have to; the metaclass (which constructs the  
class) is free to mess with the dictionary of attributes before  
creating the class.

Suppose for a moment that the suite namespace *were* visible to nested  
scopes.  The simplest and most consistent implementation would be to  
have a closure generated by a class statement be similar to that  
generated by a function--i.e., the closure would be over the suite  
namespace.  This hardly seems desirable, though, because the suite  
namespace and the class namespace would get out of sync when different  
objects were assigned to the class namespace:

class C:
   x = 1
   def foo(self):
       print x
       print self.x

 >>> o = C()
 >>> o.foo()
1
1
 >>> o.x = 2
 >>> o.foo()
1
2

Surely such an implementation would be considered an even larger  
Python wart then not having the suite namespace visible to nested  
scopes at all.  But it's better than the alternative of trying to  
unify the class suite namespace and the class namespace, which would  
be a nightmare of special cases (adding/deleting class attributes?  
descriptors? __getattr__?) and require an implementation completely  
separate from that of normal nested scopes.

-Miles

P.S. Just for fun:

import types

def make_class(*bases):
"""Decorator to allow you to (ab)use a function as a class definition.

The function must take no arguments and end with 'return locals()';
bases are (optionally) specified as arguments to make_class;
metaclasses other than 'type' are not supported.

 >>> @make_class
... def C():
...     greeting = 'Hello'
...     target = 'world'
...     def greet(self):
...         print '%s, %s' % (self.greeting, target)
...     return locals()
...
 >>> C().greet()
Hello, world
"""

def decorator(func):
   return type(func.func_name, bases, func())
if len(bases) == 1 and isinstance(bases[0], types.FunctionType):
   func = bases[0]
   bases = (object,)
   return decorator(func)
if not bases:
   bases = (object,)
return decorator



From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Thu Aug 27 13:31:04 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 10:31:04 -0700
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: <02a0b085$0$30337$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 	<87d46ok948.fsf@benfinney.id.au>	
	<02a0b085$0$30337$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4A96C2D8.5040002@stoneleaf.us>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> A mistake is still a mistake even if it shared with others.
> 
> Treating its with a lead zero as octal was a design error when it was 
> first thought up 

[snippage]

I have to disagree with you on this one.  The computing world was vastly 
different when that design decision was made.  Space was at a premium, 
programmers were not touch-typists, every character had to count, and 
why in the world would somebody who had to use papertape or punch cards 
add a lead zero without a *real* good reason?  I submit that that real 
good reason was to specify an octal literal, and not a decimal literal.

Now many many years have passed, much has changed, and a leading zero 
(like so much else) no longer makes the sense in once did -- especially 
in a very wide-spread and general purpose language like Python.  That 
does not mean it was not a very good decision at the time.

~Ethan~


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Aug 27 13:42:58 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 18:42:58 +0100
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: <4A96C2D8.5040002@stoneleaf.us>
References: 	<87d46ok948.fsf@benfinney.id.au>		<02a0b085$0$30337$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4A96C2D8.5040002@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <4A96C5A2.4020307@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Ethan Furman wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> A mistake is still a mistake even if it shared with others.
>>
>> Treating its with a lead zero as octal was a design error when it was 
>> first thought up 
> 
> [snippage]
> 
> I have to disagree with you on this one.  The computing world was vastly 
> different when that design decision was made.  Space was at a premium, 
> programmers were not touch-typists, every character had to count, and 
> why in the world would somebody who had to use papertape or punch cards 
> add a lead zero without a *real* good reason?  I submit that that real 
> good reason was to specify an octal literal, and not a decimal literal.
> 
> Now many many years have passed, much has changed, and a leading zero 
> (like so much else) no longer makes the sense in once did -- especially 
> in a very wide-spread and general purpose language like Python.  That 
> does not mean it was not a very good decision at the time.
> 
I think that it although it might have been reasonable when C was
invented, it wasn't a good idea when Python was invented.


From mensanator at aol.com  Thu Aug 27 13:49:27 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 10:49:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
References:  
	
	<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com> 
	
	
	
	
	<02a31f91$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<44bcb727-0885-4d4f-9c11-ca60a39b0d91@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<02a3e1e2$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<02a53d89$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<8d25833e-8008-42e9-ad24-10ddd4f6cbef@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<02a5d290$0$15633$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	 
	<02a5ed07$0$15633$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <9f392780-cb72-4bdb-a571-b1c218f3cbf8@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 26, 10:27?pm, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 18:53:04 -0700, Erik Max Francis wrote:
> >> In any case, unary is the standard term for what I'm discussing:
>
> >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unary_numeral_system



> This really isn't anywhere near as controversial as you guys are making
> it. Words sometimes have meanings different from what you expect from
> reasoning by analogy. Get over it.

Fine. I'm over it. Point is, I HAVE encountered plenty of people
who DON'T properly understand it, Marilyn Vos Savant, for example.
You can't blame me for thinking you don't understand it either
when unary is brought up in a discussion of how to interpret
insignificant leading 0's.

>
> --
> Steven



From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Thu Aug 27 13:51:16 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 10:51:16 -0700
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: <4A96C5A2.4020307@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: 	<87d46ok948.fsf@benfinney.id.au>		<02a0b085$0$30337$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<4A96C2D8.5040002@stoneleaf.us>
	<4A96C5A2.4020307@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <4A96C794.9090209@stoneleaf.us>

MRAB wrote:
> Ethan Furman wrote:
> 
>> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>
>>> A mistake is still a mistake even if it shared with others.
>>>
>>> Treating its with a lead zero as octal was a design error when it was 
>>> first thought up 
>>
>>
>> [snippage]
>>
>> I have to disagree with you on this one.  The computing world was 
>> vastly different when that design decision was made.  Space was at a 
>> premium, programmers were not touch-typists, every character had to 
>> count, and why in the world would somebody who had to use papertape or 
>> punch cards add a lead zero without a *real* good reason?  I submit 
>> that that real good reason was to specify an octal literal, and not a 
>> decimal literal.
>>
>> Now many many years have passed, much has changed, and a leading zero 
>> (like so much else) no longer makes the sense in once did -- 
>> especially in a very wide-spread and general purpose language like 
>> Python.  That does not mean it was not a very good decision at the time.
>>
> I think that it although it might have been reasonable when C was
> invented, it wasn't a good idea when Python was invented.

Very good point.  I was thinking Steven was talking about the earliest 
case, as opposed to the earliest Python case.  My apologies if I 
misunderstood.

~Ethan~


From bakes at ymail.com  Thu Aug 27 14:15:59 2009
From: bakes at ymail.com (Bakes)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 11:15:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: regexp help
Message-ID: <4e548d26-f3c9-46b8-a82a-c012607e2ff8@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

If I were using the code:

(?P[0-9]+)

to get an integer between 0 and 9, how would I allow it to register
negative integers as well?


From iurisilvio at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 14:28:09 2009
From: iurisilvio at gmail.com (Iuri)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 15:28:09 -0300
Subject: regexp help
In-Reply-To: <4e548d26-f3c9-46b8-a82a-c012607e2ff8@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
References: <4e548d26-f3c9-46b8-a82a-c012607e2ff8@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <789aac5a0908271128j43b5cf93se3afe2a7477ecc5e@mail.gmail.com>

You can use r"[+-]?\d+" to get positive and negative integers.

It returns true to these strings: "+123", "-123", "123"



On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 3:15 PM, Bakes  wrote:

> If I were using the code:
>
> (?P[0-9]+)
>
> to get an integer between 0 and 9, how would I allow it to register
> negative integers as well?
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Thu Aug 27 14:35:22 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 11:35:22 -0700
Subject: Object Reference question
In-Reply-To: <9feee13c-117e-4806-b238-e4152a68adfb@18g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: <2dcf41c3-6623-48d9-bb74-97f753088479@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<9feee13c-117e-4806-b238-e4152a68adfb@18g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A96D1EA.7030002@stoneleaf.us>

josef wrote:
> Thanks to everyone who responded.
> 
> I will be going with some sort of a = MyClass(name = 'a') format. It's
> the Python way.
> 
> For me, it was very hard to accept that EVERYTHING is an object
> reference. And that there are no object reference names, just string
> entries in dictionaries. But I think it all makes sense now.
> 
> Thanks again,
> 
> Josef

My apologies if I missed it, but what *exactly* are you planning on 
doing with your 'name' attribute?  From the posts I've seen so far, I 
think you are only setting yourself up for failure.

~Ethan~



From dickinsm at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 14:48:11 2009
From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 11:48:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python on Crays
References:  
	<1f5c81d8-4f79-4eea-b1bd-af48ab9ddc82@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: <9e853de8-3183-402f-ab11-c0fad2a2fb9b@d4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 25, 11:34?pm, Carrie Farberow  wrote:
> Ok, here are links to word documents outlining the commands I executed as well as the make.log file and the make_install.log file
> [links snipped]

So from the output of make, it looks as though none of the
modules specified in the Modules/Setup file is being built
at all on your system.  So not just unicodedata, but the
math, cmath, array, itertools modules and more are
missing from your build.

You can check this by running Python:  after the make step
finishes, you should have a working Python executable called
'python' in the current directory;  if you start it up and
then type 'import math' at the '>>>' prompt, I'm guessing
you'll get an error message that looks something like:

ImportError: No module named math

I don't have much idea why those modules aren't being built;
I tried imitating the relevant parts of your instructions
(to the degree that they make sense on my non-Cray system)
without any problems.

Anyway, I agree that issue1594809 doesn't look so relevant;
the only common factor is that in both cases Python is
failing to find the unicodedata module;  but in that issue
the unicodedata module is present but doesn't get found
because the paths are messed up, while in your case the
unicodedata module isn't being built at all.

Suggestions:

(1) double check that you've uncommented the appropriate lines
in the Modules/Setup file.  E.g., after the configure step, there's
a line in Modules/Setup that looks like:

#unicodedata unicodedata.c    # static Unicode character database

that leading '#' should be removed so that it looks like:

unicodedata unicodedata.c    # static Unicode character database

and similarly for the other modules in that section.
Make sure that you're editing the Modules/Setup file
*after* the configure step and *before* the make step.

(2) Find a local Unix/Python guru and ask him/her to
help out.  These sorts of problems are generally much
easier to figure out when you've got direct access to
the machine.

Sorry I can't be more help than this.

--
Mark


From enleverLesX_XXmcX at XmclavXeauX.com.invalid  Thu Aug 27 14:57:38 2009
From: enleverLesX_XXmcX at XmclavXeauX.com.invalid (Michel Claveau - MVP)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 20:57:38 +0200
Subject: Learning Python advanced features
References: <4a967bd6$0$19301$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4a96d723$0$12655$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr>

Bonsoir ! 

Tu aurais peut-?tre d? r?pondre en anglais (pour certains, "advanced features", c'est mieux que "concepts sophistiqu?s").

@+

MCI


From james.harris.1 at googlemail.com  Thu Aug 27 15:06:19 2009
From: james.harris.1 at googlemail.com (James Harris)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 12:06:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References:  
	<87d46ok948.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	 
	<02a0b085$0$30337$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On 27 Aug, 18:31, Ethan Furman  wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> > A mistake is still a mistake even if it shared with others.
>
> > Treating its with a lead zero as octal was a design error when it was
> > first thought up
>
> [snippage]
>
> I have to disagree with you on this one. ?The computing world was vastly
> different when that design decision was made. ?Space was at a premium,
> programmers were not touch-typists, every character had to count, and
> why in the world would somebody who had to use papertape or punch cards
> add a lead zero without a *real* good reason? ?I submit that that real
> good reason was to specify an octal literal, and not a decimal literal.

Nice idea. Characters were expensive but not that expensive - even
then. One extra character to make the octal prefix 0t or 0q or
something could have been used. Check out the History heading at

  http://sundry.wikispaces.com/octal-zero-prefix

Note how B migrated away from both BCPL's octal and its hex notation.

  # and #x in BCPL became
  0 and 0x in B

James


From vicente.soler at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 15:06:53 2009
From: vicente.soler at gmail.com (vsoler)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 12:06:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Question on the "csv" library
Message-ID: <055885e5-b2ee-4ca7-84d9-238034b8f21d@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

I am trying to read a csv file generated by excel.

Although I succeed in reading the file, the format that I get is not
suitable for me.

I've done:

>>> import csv
>>> spamReader = csv.reader(open('C:\\abc.csv', 'r'))

>>> print spamReader
<_csv.reader object at 0x01022E70>

>>> for row in spamReader:
	print row


['codigo;nombre;cantidad']
['a;qwe;1']
['b;asd;2']
['c;zxc;3']

My questions are:

1- Why using "print spamReader" I cannot see the data?
    I expected to see a list of lists, a kind of a matrix, but I get
nothing

2- Why are the rows in a single string?
   I expected a list of fields that, when text, would be delimited by
"
  To tell the truth, the file generated by excel does not contain the
strings delimited by ". Isn't it weird?

3- Is there anything I can do to have my data in a list of lists
structure? would another kind of data suit better my needs?

Thank you for your help

Vicente Soler


From fasteliteprogrammer at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 27 15:15:00 2009
From: fasteliteprogrammer at yahoo.com (Craig)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 12:15:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python on Crays
In-Reply-To: <9e853de8-3183-402f-ab11-c0fad2a2fb9b@d4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <645368.38785.qm@web36503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Who the one from wisconsin and did you try the python group in madison maybe they can help.

Well i from madison are and i just a newbie with python.What OS you useing?

--- On Thu, 8/27/09, Mark Dickinson  wrote:

> From: Mark Dickinson 
> Subject: Re: Python on Crays
> To: python-list at python.org
> Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 1:48 PM
> On Aug 25, 11:34?pm, Carrie Farberow
> 
> wrote:
> > Ok, here are links to word documents outlining the
> commands I executed as well as the make.log file and the
> make_install.log file
> > [links snipped]
> 
> So from the output of make, it looks as though none of the
> modules specified in the Modules/Setup file is being built
> at all on your system.? So not just unicodedata, but
> the
> math, cmath, array, itertools modules and more are
> missing from your build.
> 
> You can check this by running Python:? after the make
> step
> finishes, you should have a working Python executable
> called
> 'python' in the current directory;? if you start it up
> and
> then type 'import math' at the '>>>' prompt, I'm
> guessing
> you'll get an error message that looks something like:
> 
> ImportError: No module named math
> 
> I don't have much idea why those modules aren't being
> built;
> I tried imitating the relevant parts of your instructions
> (to the degree that they make sense on my non-Cray system)
> without any problems.
> 
> Anyway, I agree that issue1594809 doesn't look so
> relevant;
> the only common factor is that in both cases Python is
> failing to find the unicodedata module;? but in that
> issue
> the unicodedata module is present but doesn't get found
> because the paths are messed up, while in your case the
> unicodedata module isn't being built at all.
> 
> Suggestions:
> 
> (1) double check that you've uncommented the appropriate
> lines
> in the Modules/Setup file.? E.g., after the configure
> step, there's
> a line in Modules/Setup that looks like:
> 
> #unicodedata unicodedata.c? ? # static Unicode
> character database
> 
> that leading '#' should be removed so that it looks like:
> 
> unicodedata unicodedata.c? ? # static Unicode
> character database
> 
> and similarly for the other modules in that section.
> Make sure that you're editing the Modules/Setup file
> *after* the configure step and *before* the make step.
> 
> (2) Find a local Unix/Python guru and ask him/her to
> help out.? These sorts of problems are generally much
> easier to figure out when you've got direct access to
> the machine.
> 
> Sorry I can't be more help than this.
> 
> --
> Mark
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 


      


From gert.cuykens at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 15:18:28 2009
From: gert.cuykens at gmail.com (gert)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 12:18:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How does the file.seek() work ?
References: <2feaaf6c-d723-4843-a9e5-271d00187180@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	
	<1532ff09-f892-44c8-8206-10b3c2d16050@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
	<40093737-2ff1-4527-a2ea-a016ee526463@k30g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 26, 7:28?pm, gert  wrote:
> On Aug 26, 12:46?am, Graham Dumpleton 
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Aug 25, 5:37?am, Tim Chase  wrote:
>
> > > > I want the file pointer set to 100 and overwrite everything from there
> > > [snip]
> > > > def application(environ, response):
> > > > ? ? query=os.path.join(os.path.dirname(__file__),'teeeeeeeeeemp')
> > > > ? ? range=environ.get('HTTP_RANGE','bytes=0-').replace
> > > > ('bytes=','').split(',')
> > > > ? ? offset=[]
> > > > ? ? for r in range: offset.append(r.split('-'))
> > > > ? ? with open(query,'w+') as f:
> > > > ? ? ? ? ?f.seek(int(offset[0][0]))
> > > > ? ? ? ? ?while True:
> > > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?chunk=environ['wsgi.input'].read(8192).decode('latin1')
> > > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?if not chunk: break
> > > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?f.write(chunk)
> > > > ? ? f=open(query)
> > > > ? ? l=str(os.fstat(f.fileno()).st_size)
> > > > ? ? response('200 OK', [('Content-Type', 'text/plain'), ('Content-
> > > > Length', str(len(l)))])
> > > > ? ? return [l]
>
> > > A couple items of note:
>
> > > - you don't open the file in binary mode -- seek is more reliable
> > > in binary mode :)
>
> > If my memory is right, if file is opened in binary mode, also wouldn't
> > need to be decoding the WSGI input stream as latin-1 to get a string.
> > Instead can just deal with bytes and write bytes to file.
>
> > Graham
>
> > > - if you want to lop off the rest of the file, use f.truncate()
>
> > > An example:
>
> > > # create the initial file
> > > ?>>> f = file('zzz.zzz', 'wb+')
> > > ?>>> f.write('abcdefghijklmnop')
> > > ?>>> f.close()
>
> > > ?>>> f = file('zzz.zzz', 'ab+')
> > > ?>>> f.read() # show the existing content
> > > 'abcdefghijklmnop'
> > > ?>>> f.seek(5) # seek to the desired offset
> > > ?>>> f.truncate() # throw away everything after here
> > > ?>>> f.write('zyx') # write the new data at pos=5
> > > ?>>> f.close()
>
> > > # demonstrate that it worked
> > > ?>>> f = file('zzz.zzz', 'rb')
> > > ?>>> f.read()
> > > 'abcdezyx'
> > > ?>>> f.close()
>
> > > > also why must I open the file a second time to know how big it is ?
>
> > > Likely the output has been buffered. ?You can try using
>
> > > ? ?f.flush() # write all the data to the disk first
> > > ? ?size = os.fstat(f.fileno()).st_size
>
> > > which seems to do the trick for me.
> > > -tkc
>
> Works thanks
>
> curl -C 10 -T upload2.wsgihttp://192.168.2.17/appwsgi/wsgi/upload2.wsgi
> --header "Transfer-Encoding: chunked" -v
>
> import os
>
> def application(environ, response):
> ? ? #query=environ.get['QUERY_STRING']
> ? ? #print (query, file=environ['wsgi.errors'])
> ? ? query=os.path.join(os.path.dirname(__file__),'teeeeeeeeeemp')
> ? ? range=environ.get('HTTP_CONTENT_RANGE','bytes 0-').replace('bytes
> ','').split('/')[0].split(',')
> ? ? offset=[]
> ? ? for r in range: offset.append(r.split('-'))
> ? ? with open(query,'rb+') as f:
> ? ? ? ? ?f.seek(int(offset[0][0]))
> ? ? ? ? ?if environ['REQUEST_METHOD']=='PUT':
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?f.truncate()
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?while True:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?chunk=environ['wsgi.input'].read(8192)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?if not chunk: break
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?f.write(chunk)
> ? ? ? ? ?f.flush()
> ? ? ? ? ?l=str(os.fstat(f.fileno()).st_size)
> ? ? response('200 OK', [('Content-Type', 'text/plain'), ('Content-
> Length', str(len(l)))])
> ? ? return [l]

Update it works on mod_wsgi but not on wsgiref.simple_server

C:\Users\gert\Desktop\hg\appwsgi\wsgi>curl -T upload2.wsgi
http://localhost/appwsgi/wsgi/upload2.wsg
i -v
* About to connect() to localhost port 80 (#0)
*   Trying 127.0.0.1... connected
* Connected to localhost (127.0.0.1) port 80 (#0)
> PUT /appwsgi/wsgi/upload2.wsgi HTTP/1.1
> User-Agent: curl/7.19.4 (amd64-pc-win32) libcurl/7.19.4 OpenSSL/0.9.8j zlib/1.2.3
> Host: localhost
> Accept: */*
> Content-Length: 869
> Expect: 100-continue
>
* Done waiting for 100-continue

I not getting 100-continues ?


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Thu Aug 27 15:22:45 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 12:22:45 -0700
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<87d46ok948.fsf@benfinney.id.au>	
	<02a0b085$0$30337$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	
	
Message-ID: <4A96DD05.8020603@stoneleaf.us>

James Harris wrote:
> On 27 Aug, 18:31, Ethan Furman  wrote:
> 
> 
>>Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
> 
>>>A mistake is still a mistake even if it shared with others.
>>
>>>Treating its with a lead zero as octal was a design error when it was
>>>first thought up
>>
>>[snippage]
>>
>>I have to disagree with you on this one.  The computing world was vastly
>>different when that design decision was made.  Space was at a premium,
>>programmers were not touch-typists, every character had to count, and
>>why in the world would somebody who had to use papertape or punch cards
>>add a lead zero without a *real* good reason?  I submit that that real
>>good reason was to specify an octal literal, and not a decimal literal.
> 
> 
> Nice idea. Characters were expensive but not that expensive - even
> then. One extra character to make the octal prefix 0t or 0q or
> something could have been used. Check out the History heading at
> 
>   http://sundry.wikispaces.com/octal-zero-prefix
> 
> Note how B migrated away from both BCPL's octal and its hex notation.
> 
>   # and #x in BCPL became
>   0 and 0x in B
> 
> James

Nice link.

I suspect that as much as anything is was abbreviate as much as 
possible.  In unix we have copy as cp, list as ls move as mv, etc, etc.
Different mind-set also when designing for yourself or a small group, 
versus thousands and thousands.

I am in agreement that Python should not have a leading 0 for octal, as 
there are big inconsistencies with how it's treated.  Visually, I would 
have preferred a prefix of 0c, but I understand it should be consistent 
with the string specifier of o.  Oh well, win some, lose some.

~Ethan~


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Thu Aug 27 15:26:04 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 21:26:04 +0200
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal
	notation
References: 
	
	
	
	<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com>
	
	
	
	
	<02a31f91$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<44bcb727-0885-4d4f-9c11-ca60a39b0d91@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<02a3e1e2$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<02a53d89$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<8d25833e-8008-42e9-ad24-10ddd4f6cbef@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Mensanator  (M) wrote:

>M> On Aug 26, 4:59?pm, Piet van Oostrum  wrote:
>>> >>>>> Mensanator  (M) wrote:
>>> >M> That's my point. Since the common usage of "binary" is for
>>> >M> Standard Positional Number System of Radix 2, it follows
>>> >M> that "unary" is the common usage for Standard Positional
>>> >M> Number System of Radix 1. That's VERY confusing since such
>>> >M> a system is undefined. Remember, common usage does not
>>> >M> necessarily properly define things. Saying simply "unary"
>>> >M> sounds like you're extending common usage beyond its proper
>>> >M> boundaries.
>>> 
>>> But the customary meaning of `unary' is the tally system, as a radix
>>> system wouldn't make sense. I don't know when this term came into use
>>> but I have known it for a long time.

>M> Ok, I'll accept that and in the same breath say such common usage
>M> is stupid. I, for one, have never heard such usage and would never
>M> use "unary" in the same breath as "decimal, octal, binary" even if
>M> I had.

As I see it, unary just means that there is one symbol. Binary just
means that there are two symbols, etc.

With unary, the only sensible numerical interpretation is to count the
number of occurrences of that symbol, or if you also want to have the
number 0, the number of occurrences - 1.

With binary and higher you can come up with more numerical
interpretations but the most efficient one is the radix interpretation
(for different values of `efficient'). I doubt that there are many other
interpretations that you can call sensible. Therefore we immediately
think of a radix system when we talk about binary, octal, decimal etc.
But the word `binary' itself doesn't imply that.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Thu Aug 27 15:29:15 2009
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 15:29:15 -0400
Subject: Question on the "csv" library
In-Reply-To: <055885e5-b2ee-4ca7-84d9-238034b8f21d@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <055885e5-b2ee-4ca7-84d9-238034b8f21d@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 3:06 PM, vsoler  wrote:
>
> I am trying to read a csv file generated by excel.
>
> Although I succeed in reading the file, the format that I get is not
> suitable for me.
>
> I've done:
>
> >>> import csv
> >>> spamReader = csv.reader(open('C:\\abc.csv', 'r'))
>
> >>> print spamReader
> <_csv.reader object at 0x01022E70>
>
> >>> for row in spamReader:
> ? ? ? ?print row
>
>
> ['codigo;nombre;cantidad']
> ['a;qwe;1']
> ['b;asd;2']
> ['c;zxc;3']
>
> My questions are:
>
> 1- Why using "print spamReader" I cannot see the data?
> ? ?I expected to see a list of lists, a kind of a matrix, but I get
> nothing

It's because csv.reader does the same thing open does. It returns an
iterable, not a list. The file is opened but not processed until you
iterate through it. You cannot see the data when you do print
spamReader because of this and because the csv reader object does
define a __str__ method.

>
> 2- Why are the rows in a single string?
> ? I expected a list of fields that, when text, would be delimited by
> "
> ?To tell the truth, the file generated by excel does not contain the
> strings delimited by ". Isn't it weird?

CSV stands for comma separated variables. It actually has nothing to
do with the quotes- they're just used in case an element has a comma
in it, so the reader knows it's a string literal and not a separate
column. Your comma separated variable worksheet seems to be semicolon
separated. That's why the reader isn't splitting it.

>
> 3- Is there anything I can do to have my data in a list of lists
> structure? would another kind of data suit better my needs?
>
just do a list comprehension
sheet = [row for row in spamReader]


> Thank you for your help
>
> Vicente Soler
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Thu Aug 27 15:40:28 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 21:40:28 +0200
Subject: TypeError: _getfullpathname() argument 1 must be (buffer
	overflow), not str in windows xp, while making tarfile
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Ryniek90  (R) wrote:

>R> Hahah right. My fault. Must remember to read documentation so many times
>R> until I find the solution.  Thanks, now works fine.  :-)

And, by the way, how come the traceback refers to
File "backuper.py", line 197, in 
while the posted code has only 188 lines?
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From usenot at geekmail.INVALID  Thu Aug 27 15:42:40 2009
From: usenot at geekmail.INVALID (Andreas Waldenburger)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 21:42:40 +0200
Subject: Question on the "csv" library
References: <055885e5-b2ee-4ca7-84d9-238034b8f21d@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20090827213628.180142f6@geekmail.INVALID>
Message-ID: <20090827214240.70aeb792@geekmail.INVALID>

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 21:36:28 +0200 Andreas Waldenburger
 wrote:

> [snip]
>
> Might I humbly suggest
> 
> >>> sheet = list(spamReader)  # ?
> 

Oh, and while I'm humbly suggesting:

spam_reader instead of spamReader or SpamReader or SpamrEadeR or
suchlike. Caps are "reserved" for classes.

Not a necessity, of course. But it's the dialect around these parts.


/W

-- 
INVALID? DE!



From farberow at wisc.edu  Thu Aug 27 15:53:53 2009
From: farberow at wisc.edu (Carrie Farberow)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 14:53:53 -0500
Subject: Python on Crays
In-Reply-To: <645368.38785.qm@web36503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <9e853de8-3183-402f-ab11-c0fad2a2fb9b@d4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<645368.38785.qm@web36503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6f30fc8f1d449.4a969e01@wiscmail.wisc.edu>

I am from Wisconsin -- is there a python group here?  Do you have any contact info.?

The compute node operating system is Compute Node Linux (CNL).

Carrie

----- Original Message -----
From: Craig 
Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009 2:15 pm
Subject: Re: Python on Crays
To: python-list at python.org, Mark Dickinson 


> Who the one from wisconsin and did you try the python group in madison 
> maybe they can help.
>  
>  Well i from madison are and i just a newbie with python.What OS you useing?
>  
>  --- On Thu, 8/27/09, Mark Dickinson  wrote:
>  
>  > From: Mark Dickinson 
>  > Subject: Re: Python on Crays
>  > To: python-list at python.org
>  > Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 1:48 PM
>  > On Aug 25, 11:34?pm, Carrie Farberow
>  > 
>  > wrote:
>  > > Ok, here are links to word documents outlining the
>  > commands I executed as well as the make.log file and the
>  > make_install.log file
>  > > [links snipped]
>  > 
>  > So from the output of make, it looks as though none of the
>  > modules specified in the Modules/Setup file is being built
>  > at all on your system.? So not just unicodedata, but
>  > the
>  > math, cmath, array, itertools modules and more are
>  > missing from your build.
>  > 
>  > You can check this by running Python:? after the make
>  > step
>  > finishes, you should have a working Python executable
>  > called
>  > 'python' in the current directory;? if you start it up
>  > and
>  > then type 'import math' at the '>>>' prompt, I'm
>  > guessing
>  > you'll get an error message that looks something like:
>  > 
>  > ImportError: No module named math
>  > 
>  > I don't have much idea why those modules aren't being
>  > built;
>  > I tried imitating the relevant parts of your instructions
>  > (to the degree that they make sense on my non-Cray system)
>  > without any problems.
>  > 
>  > Anyway, I agree that issue1594809 doesn't look so
>  > relevant;
>  > the only common factor is that in both cases Python is
>  > failing to find the unicodedata module;? but in that
>  > issue
>  > the unicodedata module is present but doesn't get found
>  > because the paths are messed up, while in your case the
>  > unicodedata module isn't being built at all.
>  > 
>  > Suggestions:
>  > 
>  > (1) double check that you've uncommented the appropriate
>  > lines
>  > in the Modules/Setup file.? E.g., after the configure
>  > step, there's
>  > a line in Modules/Setup that looks like:
>  > 
>  > #unicodedata unicodedata.c? ? # static Unicode
>  > character database
>  > 
>  > that leading '#' should be removed so that it looks like:
>  > 
>  > unicodedata unicodedata.c? ? # static Unicode
>  > character database
>  > 
>  > and similarly for the other modules in that section.
>  > Make sure that you're editing the Modules/Setup file
>  > *after* the configure step and *before* the make step.
>  > 
>  > (2) Find a local Unix/Python guru and ask him/her to
>  > help out.? These sorts of problems are generally much
>  > easier to figure out when you've got direct access to
>  > the machine.
>  > 
>  > Sorry I can't be more help than this.
>  > 
>  > --
>  > Mark
>  > -- 
>  > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>  > 
>  
>  
>        
>  -- 
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>  


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Thu Aug 27 16:07:51 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:07:51 +0200
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

>>>>> kj  (k) wrote:

>k> No, the fact() function here represents an internal "helper"
>k> function.  It is meant to be called only once to help initialize
>k> a class variable that would be inconvenient to initialize otherwise;
>k> this helper function is not meant to be called from outside the
>k> class statement.  Granted, in the example I gave, the "helper"
>k> function (factorial) is a bit silly, but that was just intended as
>k> a simple and familiar example of a recursive function.  The actual
>k> function that motivated this post would be considerably more
>k> difficult to explain and would have obscured the point of the post.

Classes don't have helper functions; they have methods. Instance
methods, static methods or class methods. Your's isn't either of these.
Methods are to be called like `something.method(...)'.

-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From vicente.soler at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 16:12:07 2009
From: vicente.soler at gmail.com (vsoler)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 13:12:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Question on the "csv" library
References: <055885e5-b2ee-4ca7-84d9-238034b8f21d@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20090827213628.180142f6@geekmail.INVALID> 
	<20090827214240.70aeb792@geekmail.INVALID>
Message-ID: <4587853e-5aaa-4be0-af87-d758481c6077@r42g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 27, 9:42?pm, Andreas Waldenburger 
wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 21:36:28 +0200 Andreas Waldenburger
>
>  wrote:
> > [snip]
>
> > Might I humbly suggest
>
> > >>> sheet = list(spamReader) ?# ?
>
> Oh, and while I'm humbly suggesting:
>
> spam_reader instead of spamReader or SpamReader or SpamrEadeR or
> suchlike. Caps are "reserved" for classes.
>
> Not a necessity, of course. But it's the dialect around these parts.
>
> /W
>
> --
> INVALID? DE!

Thank you for your answers. Let me however make some comments:

1- the csv file was generated with Excel 2007; no prompts for what the
separator should be; Excel has used ";" by default, without asking
anything

2- about capitalisation, I used the var "spamReader" because I just
copy/pasted from the official python site:

      http://docs.python.org/library/csv.html

3- when I try

>>> sheet = [row for row in spamReader]
>>> print sheet
[]

all I get is an empty list; something seems not to be working properly

Same result list: I get an empty list

     sheet = list(spamReader)

Thank you again for your help, which is highly appreciated.

Vicente Soler


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Aug 27 16:22:31 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 16:22:31 -0400
Subject: [OT] How do I reply to a thread by sending a message to
	python-list@python.org
In-Reply-To: 
References: <20090827073102.293C91DF2@ctb-mesg8.saix.net>	<4A964C3B.8090206@ieee.org>
	
	
Message-ID: 

David House wrote:
> 2009/8/27 Terry Reedy :
>> reply-all may send duplicate messages to the author. Not sure of this list.
> 
> I'm fairly sure Mailman deals with that.

Nope. I got a duplicate sent to my mailbox, which I hate.





From ppearson at nowhere.invalid  Thu Aug 27 16:31:01 2009
From: ppearson at nowhere.invalid (Peter Pearson)
Date: 27 Aug 2009 20:31:01 GMT
Subject: regexp help
References: <4e548d26-f3c9-46b8-a82a-c012607e2ff8@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7fo8o5F2i2o8tU1@mid.individual.net>

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 11:15:59 -0700 (PDT), Bakes  wrote:
> If I were using the code:
>
> (?P[0-9]+)
>
> to get an integer between 0 and 9, how would I allow it to register
> negative integers as well?

(?P-?[0-9]+)

-- 
To email me, substitute nowhere->spamcop, invalid->net.


From usenot at geekmail.INVALID  Thu Aug 27 16:37:26 2009
From: usenot at geekmail.INVALID (Andreas Waldenburger)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:37:26 +0200
Subject: Question on the "csv" library
References: <055885e5-b2ee-4ca7-84d9-238034b8f21d@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20090827213628.180142f6@geekmail.INVALID>
	<20090827214240.70aeb792@geekmail.INVALID>
	<4587853e-5aaa-4be0-af87-d758481c6077@r42g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20090827223726.23f99ef6@geekmail.INVALID>

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 13:12:07 -0700 (PDT) vsoler
 wrote:

> On Aug 27, 9:42?pm, Andreas Waldenburger 
> wrote:
> 
> [snip what I wrote]
> 
> Thank you for your answers. Let me however make some comments:
> 
> 1- the csv file was generated with Excel 2007; no prompts for what the
> separator should be; Excel has used ";" by default, without asking
> anything
> 

Apparently it's possible, but it's a kludge

http://astrochimp.com/2005/12/20/export-csv-with-any-delimiter/comment-page-1/

Anyways, ...


> 2- about capitalisation, I used the var "spamReader" because I just
> copy/pasted from the official python site:
> 
>       http://docs.python.org/library/csv.html
> 
Oh, switcheroo!

Well, those hypocrites!


> 3- when I try
> 
> >>> sheet = [row for row in spamReader]
> >>> print sheet
> []
> 
> all I get is an empty list; something seems not to be working properly
> 
> Same result list: I get an empty list
> 
>      sheet = list(spamReader)
> 
> Thank you again for your help, which is highly appreciated.
> 

I'm assuming you do that after you've iterated over the file before?
Because it did work in a previous post of yours.

Here's the deal: When you iterate over a file (or read from it in any
other manner) you "advance" in the file. After iteration, you're at the
end, of course. So iterating again yields silch.

Hmm ... don't know how that translates to a CSVReader. But I postulate
that it'l work on a fresh run.


/W



-- 
INVALID? DE!



From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Thu Aug 27 16:42:18 2009
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 13:42:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Does Class implements Interface?
References: <800d9226-6bbc-447e-a171-83777a9634b8@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3e18a803-4445-4dcf-8d8f-7661fd46ab93@y4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 27, 6:16?am, "Emanuele D'Arrigo"  wrote:
> Greetings everybody,
>
> let's say I have a Class C and I'd like to verify if it implements
> Interface I. If I is available to me as a class object I can use
> issubclass(C, I) and I can at least verify that I is a superclass of
> C. There are a couple of issues with this approach however:
>
> 1) C might override not just I's methods code but also I's methods
> signatures, effectively changing the interface.
> 2) What if I is -not- available to me as the superclass of C but as a
> description of the interface, i.e. as an IDL(*) file?
>
> Are there resources such as tools, recipes, documents or strategies
> that could help me deal with these issues? I've already looked into
> the ABC module and the zope.interface. I'm just fishing for more
> things to look at.
>

Have you heard of duck typing?

Ignore all those things and rely on human (aka natural language)
documentation. That is, if you want to see if a class will work for an
interface, go read the docs on the interface (or rather, what the
function expects the interface to be) and what the class provides and
see if they fit.



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Aug 27 16:44:17 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 21:44:17 +0100
Subject: Question on the "csv" library
In-Reply-To: <4587853e-5aaa-4be0-af87-d758481c6077@r42g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
References: <055885e5-b2ee-4ca7-84d9-238034b8f21d@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>		<20090827213628.180142f6@geekmail.INVALID>
	<20090827214240.70aeb792@geekmail.INVALID>
	<4587853e-5aaa-4be0-af87-d758481c6077@r42g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

vsoler wrote:
> On Aug 27, 9:42 pm, Andreas Waldenburger 
> wrote:
>> On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 21:36:28 +0200 Andreas Waldenburger
>>
>>  wrote:
>>> [snip]
>>> Might I humbly suggest
>>>>>> sheet = list(spamReader)  # ?
>> Oh, and while I'm humbly suggesting:
>>
>> spam_reader instead of spamReader or SpamReader or SpamrEadeR or
>> suchlike. Caps are "reserved" for classes.
>>
>> Not a necessity, of course. But it's the dialect around these parts.
>>
>> /W
>>
>> --
>> INVALID? DE!
> 
> Thank you for your answers. Let me however make some comments:
> 
> 1- the csv file was generated with Excel 2007; no prompts for what the
> separator should be; Excel has used ";" by default, without asking
> anything
I find this difficult to believe, but assuming that you are correct then 
use the delimiter=';' argument in the call to csv.reader.  See the csv 
module documentation section "Dialects and Formatting Parameters" for 
more information.
> 
> 2- about capitalisation, I used the var "spamReader" because I just
> copy/pasted from the official python site:
> 
>       http://docs.python.org/library/csv.html
> 
> 3- when I try
> 
>>>> sheet = [row for row in spamReader]
>>>> print sheet
> []
> 
> all I get is an empty list; something seems not to be working properly
> 
> Same result list: I get an empty list
> 
>      sheet = list(spamReader)
> 
> Thank you again for your help, which is highly appreciated.
> 
> Vicente Soler


-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Thu Aug 27 16:44:27 2009
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 13:44:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Learning Python advanced features
References: <4a967864$0$15193$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <6b1a2aae-fd3d-40a8-9350-89a8661a6d4a@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 27, 5:13?am, jvpic  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Learning Python, I understand the mechanism of : closure, __new__,
> descriptors, decorators and __metaclass__, but I interrogate myself on
> the interest of those technics ?
>
> May somebody explain me the interest ?
>

I assume you are asking, "Why do these features exist? What makes them
useful? When would I use them?"

For that, you should re-read the documentation and discussion
surrounding them. The short answer is that the above makes your job,
as a programmer easier. It's easier because you have to write less
code, read less code, and your code has fewer bugs.


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Aug 27 16:57:44 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 16:57:44 -0400
Subject: [OT] How do I reply to a thread by sending a message to
	python-list@python.org
In-Reply-To: 
References: <20090827073102.293C91DF2@ctb-mesg8.saix.net>	<4A964C3B.8090206@ieee.org>		
	
Message-ID: 

Terry Reedy wrote:
> David House wrote:
>> 2009/8/27 Terry Reedy :
>>> reply-all may send duplicate messages to the author. Not sure of this 
>>> list.
>>
>> I'm fairly sure Mailman deals with that.
> 
> Nope. I got a duplicate sent to my mailbox, which I hate.

In particular, because there is no indication that it is an exact 
duplicate of what I will also find on the list itself. Please use reply 
instead of reply-all.



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Aug 27 17:05:05 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 27 Aug 2009 14:05:05 -0700
Subject: Python on the Web
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
Phil   wrote:
>
>My interest in Python 3.1 was actually to develop a framework. Again,
>I can feel the flames. :) I understand there are enough frameworks but
>I actually have no applications that I wish to develop. I enjoy
>developing these kinds of things from scratch as a learning
>experience.

Well, there's a standard joke that just as people learning Scheme write
a new language (following SICP), people learning Python write a new web
framework.  That's why there are so many of them.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I support family values -- Addams family values" --www.nancybuttons.com


From nbdarvin at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 17:06:19 2009
From: nbdarvin at gmail.com (Darvin)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 14:06:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python Telnet client
Message-ID: <09ac1e4e-2c17-4174-9ff3-f07576532960@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>

Is there telnet client in python?
i want to write NetHack telnet GUI app)


From jakecjacobson at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 17:10:22 2009
From: jakecjacobson at gmail.com (jakecjacobson)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 14:10:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to unencode a string
Message-ID: <55f8f373-8e0a-4ca5-8deb-53c02e4d1137@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

This seems like a real simple newbie question but how can a person
unencode a string?  In Perl I use something like: "$part=~ s/\%([A-Fa-
f0-9]{2})/pack('C', hex($1))/seg;"

If I have a string like Word1%20Word2%20Word3 I want to get Word1
Word2 Word3.  Would also like to handle special characters like '",(){}
[] etc/


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Thu Aug 27 17:14:24 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 14:14:24 -0700
Subject: Python Telnet client
In-Reply-To: <09ac1e4e-2c17-4174-9ff3-f07576532960@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
References: <09ac1e4e-2c17-4174-9ff3-f07576532960@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908271414l78a79b4dm14de9d6ba359804e@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 2:06 PM, Darvin wrote:
> Is there telnet client in python?
> i want to write NetHack telnet GUI app)

http://docs.python.org/library/telnetlib.html

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Aug 27 17:16:28 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 27 Aug 2009 14:16:28 -0700
Subject: [OT] How do I reply to a thread by sending a message to
	python-list@python.org
References: <20090827073102.293C91DF2@ctb-mesg8.saix.net>
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
Terry Reedy   wrote:
>David House wrote:
>> 2009/8/27 Terry Reedy :
>>>
>>> reply-all may send duplicate messages to the author. Not sure of
>>> this list.
>>
>> I'm fairly sure Mailman deals with that.
>
>Nope. I got a duplicate sent to my mailbox, which I hate.

More precisely, there is a Mailman option per-list to suppress list
sending of posts for which you are cc'd.  I don't remember where, you
should be able to find it by poking around the Mailman interface (or
searching the docs).
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I support family values -- Addams family values" --www.nancybuttons.com


From exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  Thu Aug 27 17:18:41 2009
From: exarkun at twistedmatrix.com (exarkun at twistedmatrix.com)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 21:18:41 -0000
Subject: Python Telnet client
In-Reply-To: <09ac1e4e-2c17-4174-9ff3-f07576532960@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
References: <09ac1e4e-2c17-4174-9ff3-f07576532960@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20090827211841.7475.756920895.divmod.xquotient.59@localhost.localdomain>

On 09:06 pm, nbdarvin at gmail.com wrote:
>Is there telnet client in python?
>i want to write NetHack telnet GUI app)

The Python stdlib has a module named telnetlib which offers rudamentary 
telnet support.  Twisted includes twisted.conch.telnet which implements 
a much more complete telnet library.  Twisted also includes 
twisted.conch.insults which provides basic terminal control 
functionality (so you can tell what nethack is trying to do over your 
telnet connection).

Jean-Paul


From ryniek90 at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 17:21:25 2009
From: ryniek90 at gmail.com (Ryniek90)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 23:21:25 +0200
Subject: TypeError: _getfullpathname() argument 1 must be (buffer overflow),
	not str in windows xp, while making tarfile
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A96F8D5.5080709@gmail.com>

>
>>>>>> Ryniek90  (R) wrote:
>>>>>>             
>
>   
>> R> Hahah right. My fault. Must remember to read documentation so many times
>> R> until I find the solution.  Thanks, now works fine.  :-)
>>     
>
> And, by the way, how come the traceback refers to
> File "backuper.py", line 197, in 
> while the posted code has only 188 lines?
>   

Cuz my original code is bit longer - i've got some bookkeepings like
__author__, __version__ etc., just after module imports.


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 17:22:52 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 14:22:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: An assessment of Tkinter and IDLE
Message-ID: <55a0833d-3f1f-402a-8eb7-cb4b7861cce5@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

---------------------------------------------
Tkinter and IDLE Shortfalls
---------------------------------------------
*The following is an assessment of Tkinter as i have experienced it.
Even with all the problems i list below i strongly believe Tkinter is
a great starter GUI toolkit and we (the Python Community), must keep
and maintain this module for the foreseeable future.

*However, as my assessment will reveal, much needs to be done to
"freshen" up Tkinter and IDLE, and I am not just asking for someone to
fix these problems. I have already coded solutions for most of them
however, some of course still need work, and i would like to hear from
others on this subject too. So buckle your seat belts folks, cause
here we go...

---------------------------------------------
Python offical docs and Tkinter
---------------------------------------------
*The Python docs barely cover anything related to actual Tkinter
coding. At the minimum the Tkinter doc page should have a subpage for
all the widgets available --which is very small(approx 15) and each
subpage should list the available methods on that wiget. Here are two
great resources that really like from Fredrik Lundh and John
Shipman...

  http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/index.htm
  http://infohost.nmt.edu/tcc/help/pubs/tkinter/

...I must say that I prefer the latter written by John Shipman because
of the way he lists each widgets options in a nice table structure,
and then lists the methods below. And intersestingly enough, his
manual only weighs in at about 800kb completely uncommpressed and
unedited. I'll bet you a wooden nickel i can reduce it to around 500kb
for the official Python docs *wink*

*Sadly however neither of these great works is mentioned or linked in
the official docs Why?.

*I think a short-and-to-the-point reference, like the afore mentioned
along with a few links to full featured tuts would be a great addition
to the Tkinter section of the official docs and i would be happy to
help make this happen.

---------------------------------------------
from Tkinter import *
---------------------------------------------
*Too many noobs start out with the "from Tkinter import *" idiom,
unknowing that they are horribly polluting their namespace. I feel
that all (tkinter) code should follow the "import Tkinter as tk"
policy and never use "from Tkinter import *". To push this agenda i
propose all docs be modified so that no one should see such global
import blasphemy again. We should at least keep all example code in
the latter non-polluting form and frown heavily upon global imports in
Tkinter code or any code for that matter.

---------------------------------------------
Tkinter Constants
---------------------------------------------
*The Tkconstants module needs to be removed *yesterday* because i
think it reinforces sloppy coding styles. The main problem is with
subtle bugs that are created when someone rebinds one or more of the
constants, for example "W=20". At first i thought the constants were
great but I quickly found out the shortfalls of such a Utopian
approach . Since Tkinter allows strings to be passed-into widget
constructors, we should remove the TkConstants immediately and force
everyone to use strings instead...

 #-- instead of this --#
  w.pack(side=LEFT,fill=BOTH,anchor=W)

 #-- do this --#
  w.pack(side='left',fill='both',anchor='w')

The few extra keystrokes are well worth the effort!

---------------------------------------------
IDLE Shell
---------------------------------------------
*IDLE and Pyshell are great but have major flaws in design. One of my
biggest complaints is the shell's eight space indention which
completely bloats your screen! Another annoying fact is that the prompt
(>>>) is actually inside the text widget. This design is all wrong!
The prompt should be in another widget to the left of the text so it
never gets copied or pasted. Or at-least have the copy/paste action
remove the initial four spaces and the prompt, but i think a full
separation of "prompt" and "text" are the best solution. The following
ASCII art won't win me any awards, but it may covey my idea. "W1"
holds the prompt and "W2" is the actual text editor.

  <-------- W2 ----------->
 >>> | for x in range(10):     |
 ... |   print x               |
 ... |     for y in range(x):  |
 ... |       print y           |
     |1
     |2

And don't tell me about Geany or Pythonwin or emacs or vim or whatever
editor happens to float your boat. I know there are tons of great
editors out there but IDLE is most likely the first one a Pynoob will
use so it must be usable! IDLE and Tkinter  are what make Python a
stater language -- after the beautiful syntax of course :)

---------------------------------------------
IDLE Editor
---------------------------------------------
*On M$ windows pressing the MMB without a motion causes the selected
text to be pasted at the insertion cursor, and holding it repeats the
action very quickly! Since IDLE has no horizontal scroll bar you must
use MMB to scroll left-right. I am quite happy that there is no
horizontal scrollbar since using MMB is much quicker, but the text
pasting action always ruins my day :(. This pasting action is a real
PITA and a waste of good processor time. I know how to override it
with a hack in IDLE, but many newcomers won't and will probably get
frustrated by it so this must be either fixed by hard coding IDLE or
allowing a user to turn is off in the config options dialog.

*Something that always gets a Python IDLE noob is "open-bracket-syntax-
errors" in IDLE. When Python throws this type of error normally the
only clue you will get from IDLE is to see the last line highlighted.
However, the missing or misplaced bracket is usually no where near the
end of the script. IDLE can be easily fixed to show a much closer or
even exact location of the last open bracket.

*The Find dialog forgets the regexp string after finding a match, this
can be a real time waster especially if you typed in a long expression
and need to tweak it just a bit for a second search! if the "regexp"
check box is selected the dialog should not replace the contents of
the Dialog.entry with the texts' selection. (easy fix)

*The replace dialog seems buggy when doing a "replace+find". Sometimes
it will highlight the next match but sometimes the highlight will
immediately disappear so you can't be for sure what you may be
replacing with the next push of the button? (could be a conflict with
the colorizer)  Real aggravating! This seems to always happen when a
string is selected.

*One of my all time pet peeves with all text editors. Everybody repeat
after me...

"""NO TEXT EDITOR SHOULD EVER COPY AN EMPTY STRING TO THE
CLIPBOARD!!"""

...I can't tell you how many times I've had to re-copy some text
because i accidentally pressed  instead of ,
arggh! This bug needs to be fixed yesterday! Pressing  with
no active selection should sound the error bell, not copy "".

*Using the goto-line command should highlight the requested line.
Currently all that IDLE does is place the insertion cursor at the
start of the requested line which is completely useless. One more line
of code in the goto method would make this action more useful

---------------------------------------------
Tkinter Canvas
---------------------------------------------
*The Tkinter Canvas widget should return (X,Y) pairs when calling
canvas.coords(obj). The current implementation returns a flat array
that is pretty much useless outside of canvas calls. Of course one
could zip the coords into pairs, but it seems clumsy to call zip() on
2 LC's when Tkinter could, and should, do it for you.

*Canvas needs a canvas.rotate() method for polygons, lines -- (easy).

---------------------------------------------
Tkinter ComboBox -- where's Waldo?
---------------------------------------------
*As much as i hate to support anything related to M$, Tkinter needs an
M$ stlye combobox. Yes, I know Tix has combobox (*puke*), however
using it is like pulling teeth. I have coded up an far more elegant/
simple solution -- and yes, i know about the OptionMenu widget which
serves a useful purpose but is NOT a good replacement for a REAL M$
style combobox ;).

*For instance, ComboBoxes need values that the user can select from,
this is as universal as humans and oxygen. But sometimes you want to
give the user a detailed set of values in the dropdown listbox and
then insert an abbrieation of the value once selected, such as the
case with state names...

 New Mexico -> MN
  California -> CA
    Florida -> FL

...instead of the laborious and wasteful convention of overriding a
method to insert this value from a mapping each time why not just pass
a pointer to the mapping into the constructor and create a combobox
that actually knows how to walk and chew gum!

[Warning: puesdo code ahead!]

class ComboBox(master, values, etc..)
  def __init__(blahblahblah)
    self.values = values
    if type(values) == dict:
      self.values = values.keys())
    listbox.load(self.values)

  def onUserPick(self, arg):
    if type(self.values) == dict:
       self.entry.set(self.values[arg])
       return
    self.entry.set(arg)

---------------------------------------------
Tix In General
---------------------------------------------
*I am not a big fan of the Tix Module. The idea behind the widgets is
great, but using most of them is a nightmare on elm street with Jason
Voorhees in hot pursuit. I have hacked my own far more elegant
versions of the more useful Tix Widgets and i feel mine are less buggy
and more user friendly.  So i say lose Tix and go with my fix, or get
stuck with the Tix!

*Python is missing good docs for Tix. The only thing i can find is the
Tcl docs which are riddled with horribly cryptic tcl code.

---------------------------------------------
Tix NoteBook
---------------------------------------------
*The Tix.NoteBook widget has a bug. If you subclass Frame for your
toplevel window you can't create a notebook widget as a descendant of
the frame because it just blows chunks. The only way i have
successfully used the widget is by the noobish style...

  >>> import Tix
  >>> root = Tix.Tk()
  >>> notebook = Tix.NoteBook...blah
  >>> root.mainloop()

*Overall however i feel the IDLE "TabbedWidget" out-performs the
Tix.NoteBook by miles and is easier to use, although it does have a
few design problems that i have fixed. One of the most predominate
being the inability to see the tabs clearly. The selected tab should
"stand-out" from the others so a user can spot it quickly. Also there
is no reason to export TabSet class and this can clean up the code a
bit.

---------------------------------------------
Tix ComboBox
---------------------------------------------
*What is with that big ugly arrow? This widget is an exercise in
cruelty to humans, and thats all i will say about it!


---------------------------------------------
Final Thoughts
---------------------------------------------
Well, that is all i can remember for now. If you've made it this far
without losing your temper or your lunch well i am very surprised ;).
Anyway, give me some feedback on these ideas so maybe i can get
motivated to submit some patches/enhancements.

psst... help is welcome too ya'know :)


From kccnospam at glenevin.com  Thu Aug 27 17:37:54 2009
From: kccnospam at glenevin.com (seanacais)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 14:37:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: variables  of the class are not available as default values?
Message-ID: 

I'm working on a program where I wish to define the default value of a
method as a value that was set in __init__.  I get a compilation error
saying that self is undefined.

As always a code snippet helps :-)

class foo:
    def __init__(self, maxvalue):
        self.maxvalue = maxvalue
        self.value = 0

    def put(self, value=self.maxvalue):
        self.value = value

So if I call foo.put() the value is set to maxvalue but maxvalue can
be specified when I instantiate foo.

Explanations and/or workarounds much appreciated.



python test.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "test.py", line 1, in 
    class foo:
  File "test.py", line 6, in foo
    def put(self, value=self.maxvalue):
NameError: name 'self' is not defined


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Thu Aug 27 17:44:53 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 14:44:53 -0700
Subject: variables of the class are not available as default values?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908271444t67b2c820pbcd0f6c82acaa832@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 2:37 PM, seanacais wrote:
> I'm working on a program where I wish to define the default value of a
> method as a value that was set in __init__. ?I get a compilation error
> saying that self is undefined.
>
> As always a code snippet helps :-)
>
> class foo:
> ? ?def __init__(self, maxvalue):
> ? ? ? ?self.maxvalue = maxvalue
> ? ? ? ?self.value = 0
>
> ? ?def put(self, value=self.maxvalue):
> ? ? ? ?self.value = value
>
> So if I call foo.put() the value is set to maxvalue but maxvalue can
> be specified when I instantiate foo.

> python test.py
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "test.py", line 1, in 
>    class foo:
>  File "test.py", line 6, in foo
>    def put(self, value=self.maxvalue):
> NameError: name 'self' is not defined

> Explanations and/or workarounds much appreciated.

Workaround:

class foo:
    def __init__(self, maxvalue):
        self.maxvalue = maxvalue
        self.value = 0

    def put(self, value=None):
        self.value = self.value if value is None else value

Explanation:

Default values are only evaluated once, when the class is defined,
thus "self" is not defined at that point since the class is still
being defined when the method definition is executed and thus there
can be no instances yet anyway.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From andreengels at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 17:49:42 2009
From: andreengels at gmail.com (Andre Engels)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 23:49:42 +0200
Subject: variables of the class are not available as default values?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <6faf39c90908271449ic980813n56a9873913ee2af9@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 11:37 PM, seanacais wrote:
> I'm working on a program where I wish to define the default value of a
> method as a value that was set in __init__. ?I get a compilation error
> saying that self is undefined.
>
> As always a code snippet helps :-)
>
> class foo:
> ? ?def __init__(self, maxvalue):
> ? ? ? ?self.maxvalue = maxvalue
> ? ? ? ?self.value = 0
>
> ? ?def put(self, value=self.maxvalue):
> ? ? ? ?self.value = value
>
> So if I call foo.put() the value is set to maxvalue but maxvalue can
> be specified when I instantiate foo.
>
> Explanations and/or workarounds much appreciated.

Explanation: The default value is calculated at the time the function
is defined, not at the time it is called. And at that time there is no
instance for "self" to refer to.

Workaround:


class foo:
    def __init__(self, maxvalue):
        self.maxvalue = maxvalue
        self.value = 0

    def put(self, value=None):
        if value is None:
            self.value = self.maxvalue
        else:
            self.value = value


-- 
Andr? Engels, andreengels at gmail.com


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Thu Aug 27 17:49:50 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 14:49:50 -0700
Subject: How to unencode a string
In-Reply-To: <55f8f373-8e0a-4ca5-8deb-53c02e4d1137@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <55f8f373-8e0a-4ca5-8deb-53c02e4d1137@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908271449x1854d875ncdde2280b46ecdcc@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 2:10 PM, jakecjacobson wrote:
> This seems like a real simple newbie question but how can a person
> unencode a string? ?In Perl I use something like: "$part=~ s/\%([A-Fa-
> f0-9]{2})/pack('C', hex($1))/seg;"
>
> If I have a string like Word1%20Word2%20Word3 I want to get Word1
> Word2 Word3. ?Would also like to handle special characters like '",(){}
> [] etc/

Use the `uu` module together with the `stringio` module:
http://docs.python.org/library/uu.html
http://docs.python.org/library/stringio.html

Not sure about special character handling though.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From mdekauwe at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 17:51:08 2009
From: mdekauwe at gmail.com (Mart.)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 14:51:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: regexp help
References: <4e548d26-f3c9-46b8-a82a-c012607e2ff8@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <93ec85b5-907e-4504-968d-b14f1577debf@z38g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 27, 7:15?pm, Bakes  wrote:
> If I were using the code:
>
> (?P[0-9]+)
>
> to get an integer between 0 and 9, how would I allow it to register
> negative integers as well?

-?


From phily05 at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 18:02:41 2009
From: phily05 at gmail.com (Phil)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 15:02:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python on the Web
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: <633c57f3-fb46-4d11-93c7-64a07ecd0844@32g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

Haha. While I don't disagree with you, I seem to be under the
impression that you think I haven't been reading the web where nearly
every blog post complains about the abundance of Python frameworks.
The thing is, most of the frameworks being commented on in such a way
are 'microframeworks' that provide next to nothing. I'm do not mean to
say anything negative about them, but I strongly feel that my approach
will be much more functional without having to include, or at least a
good starting point for newcomers to both Python and web programming.
The ideas I had for mine lied somewhere in between a full stack
framework and a minimalist approach like said microframeworks.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Aug 27 18:05:03 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 23:05:03 +0100
Subject: How to unencode a string
In-Reply-To: <55f8f373-8e0a-4ca5-8deb-53c02e4d1137@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <55f8f373-8e0a-4ca5-8deb-53c02e4d1137@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A97030F.9000805@mrabarnett.plus.com>

jakecjacobson wrote:
> This seems like a real simple newbie question but how can a person
> unencode a string?  In Perl I use something like: "$part=~ s/\%([A-Fa-
> f0-9]{2})/pack('C', hex($1))/seg;"
> 
> If I have a string like Word1%20Word2%20Word3 I want to get Word1
> Word2 Word3.  Would also like to handle special characters like '",(){}
> [] etc/

The Python equivalent of your regular expression code is:

 >>> import re
 >>> s = "Word1%20Word2%20Word3"
 >>> re.sub(r"%([A-Fa-f0-9]{2})", lambda m: chr(int(m.group(1), 16)), s)
'Word1 Word2 Word3'

The replacement is a lambda expression (an anonymous function), which is
called for each match with the match object and it works like this:

m                        # m is the match object
m.group(1)               # get group 1 (the 2 hex digits)
int(m.group(1), 16)      # convert to an integer
chr(int(m.group(1), 16)) # convert to a character


From manu3d at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 18:09:18 2009
From: manu3d at gmail.com (Emanuele D'Arrigo)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 15:09:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Does Class implements Interface?
References: <800d9226-6bbc-447e-a171-83777a9634b8@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<3e18a803-4445-4dcf-8d8f-7661fd46ab93@y4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 27, 9:42?pm, Jonathan Gardner 
wrote:
> Have you heard of duck typing?

Yes.

> Ignore all those things and rely on human (aka natural language)
> documentation. That is, if you want to see if a class will work for an
> interface, go read the docs on the interface (or rather, what the
> function expects the interface to be) and what the class provides and
> see if they fit.

Apologies, my fault, I didn't explain that humans are out of the loop
entirely. It's only at runtime that the program obtains the class
object that might or might not conform to an expected interface. In
fact the program might obtain multiple objects and have to decide
which one conforms best to the expected interface. Of course I could
use hasattr() and the inspect module (anything else?) to find out if
existing attributes and method signatures are those expected. Or I
could just deal with the exceptions as they are raised. However, if I
could somehow rely that the object I'm getting has the right methods
and signatures I could avoid peppering the code with try/except
constructs.

I was just wondering then if this has been somewhat dealt with and has
been wrapped in a neat package, set of functions, recipe or pattern.

Manu


From somebody at somewhere.com  Thu Aug 27 18:16:14 2009
From: somebody at somewhere.com (Stephen Fairchild)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 23:16:14 +0100
Subject: How to unencode a string
References: <55f8f373-8e0a-4ca5-8deb-53c02e4d1137@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

jakecjacobson wrote:

> This seems like a real simple newbie question but how can a person
> unencode a string?  In Perl I use something like: "$part=~ s/\%([A-Fa-
> f0-9]{2})/pack('C', hex($1))/seg;"
> 
> If I have a string like Word1%20Word2%20Word3 I want to get Word1
> Word2 Word3.  Would also like to handle special characters like '",(){}
> [] etc/

import urllib
print urllib.unquote("Word1%20Word2%20Word3")
-- 
Stephen Fairchild


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Thu Aug 27 18:22:33 2009
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 15:22:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Does Class implements Interface?
References: <800d9226-6bbc-447e-a171-83777a9634b8@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<3e18a803-4445-4dcf-8d8f-7661fd46ab93@y4g2000prf.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 27, 3:09?pm, "Emanuele D'Arrigo"  wrote:
>
> Apologies, my fault,

No apology is necessary.

> I didn't explain that humans are out of the loop
> entirely. It's only at runtime that the program obtains the class
> object that might or might not conform to an expected interface. In
> fact the program might obtain multiple objects and have to decide
> which one conforms best to the expected interface. Of course I could
> use hasattr() and the inspect module (anything else?) to find out if
> existing attributes and method signatures are those expected. Or I
> could just deal with the exceptions as they are raised. However, if I
> could somehow rely that the object I'm getting has the right methods
> and signatures I could avoid peppering the code with try/except
> constructs.
>
> I was just wondering then if this has been somewhat dealt with and has
> been wrapped in a neat package, set of functions, recipe or pattern.
>

Don't bother with introspection using hasattr() and such. Use
exceptions. If the object that is instantiated at run-time doesn't
provide the right interface, throw an exception and direct it to the
responsible party.

This isn't much different than what you'd do if you're writing an app
that expects a string of digits but is instead given a string of non-
digits. Rather than inspecting the string before converting it
(introspection), just try to convert it and catch the exception. Then
handle the exception such that you tell the person who entered the
data, "I wanted numbers, not letters" and allow them to try again.

When you stop asking "Did I get something I expect?" except only when
it is absolutely necessary, then you can get back to writing your
program.


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Thu Aug 27 18:25:09 2009
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 15:25:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Does Class implements Interface?
References: <800d9226-6bbc-447e-a171-83777a9634b8@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<3e18a803-4445-4dcf-8d8f-7661fd46ab93@y4g2000prf.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: <83dc3cba-a6f5-46ef-8a43-119b78be622d@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 27, 3:09?pm, "Emanuele D'Arrigo"  wrote:
> On Aug 27, 9:42?pm, Jonathan Gardner 
> wrote:
>
> > Have you heard of duck typing?
>
> Yes.
>
> I was just wondering then if this has been somewhat dealt with and has
> been wrapped in a neat package, set of functions, recipe or pattern.
>

As a joke (but only partly), here's the python code you'd use to check
to see if a value conforms with expectations:




As you can see, the above code is not only easy to write, but easy to
write unit tests for, compile, run, and debug. It simply doesn't get
better than this.


From kccnospam at glenevin.com  Thu Aug 27 18:29:53 2009
From: kccnospam at glenevin.com (seanacais)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 15:29:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: variables of the class are not available as default values?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 27, 5:44?pm, Chris Rebert  wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 2:37 PM, seanacais wrote:
> > I'm working on a program where I wish to define the default value of a
> > method as a value that was set in __init__. ?I get a compilation error
> > saying that self is undefined.
>
> > As always a code snippet helps :-)
>
> > class foo:
> > ? ?def __init__(self, maxvalue):
> > ? ? ? ?self.maxvalue = maxvalue
> > ? ? ? ?self.value = 0
>
> > ? ?def put(self, value=self.maxvalue):
> > ? ? ? ?self.value = value
>
> > So if I call foo.put() the value is set to maxvalue but maxvalue can
> > be specified when I instantiate foo.
> > python test.py
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> > ?File "test.py", line 1, in 
> > ? ?class foo:
> > ?File "test.py", line 6, in foo
> > ? ?def put(self, value=self.maxvalue):
> > NameError: name 'self' is not defined
> > Explanations and/or workarounds much appreciated.
>
> Workaround:
>
> class foo:
> ? ? def __init__(self, maxvalue):
> ? ? ? ? self.maxvalue = maxvalue
> ? ? ? ? self.value = 0
>
> ? ? def put(self, value=None):
> ? ? ? ? self.value = self.value if value is None else value
>
> Explanation:
>
> Default values are only evaluated once, when the class is defined,
> thus "self" is not defined at that point since the class is still
> being defined when the method definition is executed and thus there
> can be no instances yet anyway.
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --http://blog.rebertia.com

That clears that up for me.   Thank you!


From find.mig at paa.google  Thu Aug 27 18:31:15 2009
From: find.mig at paa.google (Esben von Buchwald)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 00:31:15 +0200
Subject: Protecting against callbacks queuing up?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4a91db65$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>		<4a92b290$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>		<4a93e575$0$298$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>		<4a95961d$0$300$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
	
Message-ID: <4a970942$0$334$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> 
> 	The only other thing I could suggest is exactly what is done on:
> http://pys60.garage.maemo.org/doc/s60/node59.html
> 
> 	Initialize a counter value to 0, then increment it in the callback,
> only doing REAL work every n calls.
> 
> 
> 	def doCallback(self):
> 		if self.count % 35 == 0:	#doc says 35 hits/second, so this
> 			self.data_callback()	#will run one once per second
> 		self.count += 1
> 
> 	You'll still get that slew of backlogged callbacks that built up
> while doing the real processing, but unless self.data_callback() takes
> more time than the "35" covers, most of the callbacks will just come in
> and exit with an increment.

Of course I can do that.


But it'll only make a noticable delay EVERY time the user moves, and not 
prevent the build up of calls if it doesn't finish within the 35 callbacks.

The point is that I don't know in advance, how long the call will take. 
It depends on the amount of data i load and process during the call.
I only know when the calculations have finished, and when they are 
called, and think there might be some way to block further callbacks 
until the first one returns?


From find.mig at paa.google  Thu Aug 27 18:42:16 2009
From: find.mig at paa.google (Esben von Buchwald)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 00:42:16 +0200
Subject: Protecting against callbacks queuing up?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4a91db65$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>		<4a9595ca$0$300$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
	
Message-ID: <4a970bd7$0$333$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>

Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:
> 
> Hmm - now I am really starting to fly by the seat of my pants - but it looks 
> as if your problem is that your routine is basically being called faster than 
> what it can do the processing.
> 
> So what I would try is to define a global (you should really acquire a lock, 
> but forget that for the moment) So lets call this thing running_calculation.
> 
> Then you set this in the routine just before the after call, and reset it just 
> before exiting the calculation routine, and if it is set when you get into 
> the first routine, then you just exit, without doing the after.   This should 
> have the effect of skipping some calls, to make it all manageable.  Then you 
> should (hopefully) not have the duplication that it looks to me like you are 
> now having.
> 
> Bye the way, make the time short - like 1 - it could also be that the time is 
> now so long before you start calculating, that you do not have a snowball's 
> hope in hell to be finished before the next value comes in.
> 

OK, now things starts to make sense.

You tell me to do something like this?


     def doCallback(self):
         if self.process_busy==False:
             self.process_busy=True
             self.at.after(0.01,self.data_callback)
     def doneCallback(self):
             self.process_busy=False


And the after command will cause python to spawn a new thread, which 
runs self.data_callback, which measn that the doCallback will return 
immediately, so the next callback from accelerometer can be processed?

And when the self.data_callback() finishes, i'd make it call the 
doneCallback() to release my busy flag, right?

I'm gonna try this tomorrow :)


From somebody at somewhere.com  Thu Aug 27 18:43:30 2009
From: somebody at somewhere.com (Stephen Fairchild)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 23:43:30 +0100
Subject: Does Class implements Interface?
References: <800d9226-6bbc-447e-a171-83777a9634b8@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<3e18a803-4445-4dcf-8d8f-7661fd46ab93@y4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <6fidnfxppNqOkQrXnZ2dnUVZ8uydnZ2d@giganews.com>

Emanuele D'Arrigo wrote:

> Apologies, my fault, I didn't explain that humans are out of the loop
> entirely. It's only at runtime that the program obtains the class
> object that might or might not conform to an expected interface. In
> fact the program might obtain multiple objects and have to decide
> which one conforms best to the expected interface. Of course I could
> use hasattr() and the inspect module (anything else?) to find out if
> existing attributes and method signatures are those expected. Or I
> could just deal with the exceptions as they are raised. However, if I
> could somehow rely that the object I'm getting has the right methods
> and signatures I could avoid peppering the code with try/except
> constructs.
> 
> I was just wondering then if this has been somewhat dealt with and has
> been wrapped in a neat package, set of functions, recipe or pattern.

http://docs.python.org/library/abc.html

In particular, pay attention to the term virtual subclass and also note in
the second code example the use of __subclasshook__ to define virtual
subclass membership by the presence (or not) of class attributes.
-- 
Stephen Fairchild


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Thu Aug 27 18:45:13 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 00:45:13 +0200
Subject: TypeError: _getfullpathname() argument 1 must be (buffer
	overflow), not str in windows xp, while making tarfile
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Ryniek90  (R) wrote:

>>> 
>>>>>>>> Ryniek90  (R) wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>R> Hahah right. My fault. Must remember to read documentation so many times
>R> until I find the solution.  Thanks, now works fine.  :-)
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> And, by the way, how come the traceback refers to
>>> File "backuper.py", line 197, in 
>>> while the posted code has only 188 lines?
>>> 

>R> Cuz my original code is bit longer - i've got some bookkeepings like
>R> __author__, __version__ etc., just after module imports.

That can be very confusing for people that want to help you.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Thu Aug 27 18:51:55 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 00:51:55 +0200
Subject: How to unencode a string
References: <55f8f373-8e0a-4ca5-8deb-53c02e4d1137@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

>>>>> jakecjacobson  (j) wrote:

>j> This seems like a real simple newbie question but how can a person
>j> unencode a string?  In Perl I use something like: "$part=~ s/\%([A-Fa-
>j> f0-9]{2})/pack('C', hex($1))/seg;"

>j> If I have a string like Word1%20Word2%20Word3 I want to get Word1
>j> Word2 Word3.  

urllib.unquote(string)

>j> Would also like to handle special characters like '",(){}
>j> [] etc/

What would you like to do with them? Or do you mean to replace %27 by ' etc?
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Aug 27 18:58:06 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 23:58:06 +0100
Subject: Protecting against callbacks queuing up?
In-Reply-To: <4a970942$0$334$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
References: <4a91db65$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>		<4a92b290$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>		<4a93e575$0$298$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>		<4a95961d$0$300$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>	
	<4a970942$0$334$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
Message-ID: <4A970F7E.9070006@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Esben von Buchwald wrote:
> Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
>>
>>     The only other thing I could suggest is exactly what is done on:
>> http://pys60.garage.maemo.org/doc/s60/node59.html
>>
>>     Initialize a counter value to 0, then increment it in the callback,
>> only doing REAL work every n calls.
>>
>>
>>     def doCallback(self):
>>         if self.count % 35 == 0:    #doc says 35 hits/second, so this
>>             self.data_callback()    #will run one once per second
>>         self.count += 1
>>
>>     You'll still get that slew of backlogged callbacks that built up
>> while doing the real processing, but unless self.data_callback() takes
>> more time than the "35" covers, most of the callbacks will just come in
>> and exit with an increment.
> 
> Of course I can do that.
> 
> 
> But it'll only make a noticable delay EVERY time the user moves, and not 
> prevent the build up of calls if it doesn't finish within the 35 callbacks.
> 
> The point is that I don't know in advance, how long the call will take. 
> It depends on the amount of data i load and process during the call.
> I only know when the calculations have finished, and when they are 
> called, and think there might be some way to block further callbacks 
> until the first one returns?

You could record when your callback finishes (is about to return) and
then ignore any callback that happens too soon after that:

     def doCallback(self):
         now = time.time()
         if now - self.last_call >= MIN_TIME:
             self.data_callback()
             now = time.time()
         self.last_call = now


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Thu Aug 27 19:05:04 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 16:05:04 -0700
Subject: How to unencode a string
In-Reply-To: <50697b2c0908271449x1854d875ncdde2280b46ecdcc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <55f8f373-8e0a-4ca5-8deb-53c02e4d1137@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<50697b2c0908271449x1854d875ncdde2280b46ecdcc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908271605h1055dfd7qc786a7e0e067f4a5@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 2:49 PM, Chris Rebert wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 2:10 PM, jakecjacobson wrote:
>> This seems like a real simple newbie question but how can a person
>> unencode a string? ?In Perl I use something like: "$part=~ s/\%([A-Fa-
>> f0-9]{2})/pack('C', hex($1))/seg;"
>>
>> If I have a string like Word1%20Word2%20Word3 I want to get Word1
>> Word2 Word3. ?Would also like to handle special characters like '",(){}
>> [] etc/
>
> Use the `uu` module together with the `stringio` module:
> http://docs.python.org/library/uu.html
> http://docs.python.org/library/stringio.html
>
> Not sure about special character handling though.

Ah, I misread our post in haste. Please disregard my reply.

- Chris


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Aug 27 19:05:37 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 00:05:37 +0100
Subject: Protecting against callbacks queuing up?
In-Reply-To: <4A970F7E.9070006@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <4a91db65$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>		<4a92b290$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>		<4a93e575$0$298$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>		<4a95961d$0$300$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>		<4a970942$0$334$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
	<4A970F7E.9070006@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <4A971141.6050402@mrabarnett.plus.com>

MRAB wrote:
> Esben von Buchwald wrote:
>> Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
>>>
>>>     The only other thing I could suggest is exactly what is done on:
>>> http://pys60.garage.maemo.org/doc/s60/node59.html
>>>
>>>     Initialize a counter value to 0, then increment it in the callback,
>>> only doing REAL work every n calls.
>>>
>>>
>>>     def doCallback(self):
>>>         if self.count % 35 == 0:    #doc says 35 hits/second, so this
>>>             self.data_callback()    #will run one once per second
>>>         self.count += 1
>>>
>>>     You'll still get that slew of backlogged callbacks that built up
>>> while doing the real processing, but unless self.data_callback() takes
>>> more time than the "35" covers, most of the callbacks will just come in
>>> and exit with an increment.
>>
>> Of course I can do that.
>>
>>
>> But it'll only make a noticable delay EVERY time the user moves, and 
>> not prevent the build up of calls if it doesn't finish within the 35 
>> callbacks.
>>
>> The point is that I don't know in advance, how long the call will 
>> take. It depends on the amount of data i load and process during the 
>> call.
>> I only know when the calculations have finished, and when they are 
>> called, and think there might be some way to block further callbacks 
>> until the first one returns?
> 
> You could record when your callback finishes (is about to return) and
> then ignore any callback that happens too soon after that:
> 
>     def doCallback(self):
>         now = time.time()
>         if now - self.last_call >= MIN_TIME:
>             self.data_callback()
>             now = time.time()
>         self.last_call = now

After a little more thought, I think that should be:

     def doCallback(self):
         if time.time() - self.last_call >= MIN_TIME:
             self.data_callback()
             self.last_call = time.time()


From kkumNOTTHISer at thatsearchenginesguglsemail.com  Thu Aug 27 19:05:41 2009
From: kkumNOTTHISer at thatsearchenginesguglsemail.com (Kreso)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 23:05:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Algorithms as objects?
Message-ID: 


I am writing an application that essentially calculates set of numbers,
say N1, N2, ..., where they can be calculated by several different 
algorithms. (One should be able to choose the algorithm at run time.) 
In each algorithm one starts from a set of functions, say f1, f2, ...,
which are then transformed into some other functions g1(f1, f2, ..),
g2(f1, f2, ...), ... , then maybe transformed once more and result is 
obtained by evaluating final functions. 
  I can naturally think about this as a collection of transformation
blocks, which have functions as input and output, and which can be
put together to get the final results. However, I am not sure
how to program this, especially since one cannot subclass function
type. To be clear let me give simplified example of what is needed:

f(x) has unknown shape, so one would like to try, say

f1(x) = ax - b x**2   or    f2(x) = a sin(b*x),

where a and b are variable parameters.

Then, one would like to create, with known k(x,y), function g(x) 
in one of two ways:
 
g1(x) = k(x, x)*f(x)  or   g2(x) = integrate(k(x, y) * f(y), y=0..1),

and finally evaluate N=g(1) as result. In this simple example 
there are 4 different algorithms  for f(x) -> g(x) -> N, and one
should be able to simply choose between them, e.g. by calling
N(g1, f2, (a,b)).

In practice algorithm is not necessary so linear,  but is
generally tree-lika:

(a,b) -> f1(x) --->g1(x)---+
                           |--> h(x) --> N
(c,d) ---+--> g2(x)--------+
         |
 f2(x) --+


It would be nice to have some class of function-objects,
that f1(x), .., g1(x), ... could be members/instances of so that common
operations on these functions could be possible (checking
that they satisfy some necessary properties, plotting them, ...),
and then second "class" of transformations/methods operating on
these objects.
I seem to be confused by the fact that I would like to somehow treat
algorithms as objects (so that one can experiment with different
algorithm systems) but I don't have clear picture how to do it.
I am just brainstorming for ideas. Any advice is welcome.



From clp2 at rebertia.com  Thu Aug 27 19:14:35 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 16:14:35 -0700
Subject: Algorithms as objects?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908271614q6609884aw36de8ef27b97d930@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 4:05 PM,
Kreso wrote:
>
> I am writing an application that essentially calculates set of numbers,
> say N1, N2, ..., where they can be calculated by several different
> algorithms. (One should be able to choose the algorithm at run time.)
> In each algorithm one starts from a set of functions, say f1, f2, ...,
> which are then transformed into some other functions g1(f1, f2, ..),
> g2(f1, f2, ...), ... , then maybe transformed once more and result is
> obtained by evaluating final functions.
> ?I can naturally think about this as a collection of transformation
> blocks, which have functions as input and output, and which can be
> put together to get the final results. However, I am not sure
> how to program this, especially since one cannot subclass function
> type. To be clear let me give simplified example of what is needed:
>
> f(x) has unknown shape, so one would like to try, say
>
> f1(x) = ax - b x**2 ? or ? ?f2(x) = a sin(b*x),
>
> where a and b are variable parameters.
>
> Then, one would like to create, with known k(x,y), function g(x)
> in one of two ways:
>
> g1(x) = k(x, x)*f(x) ?or ? g2(x) = integrate(k(x, y) * f(y), y=0..1),
>
> and finally evaluate N=g(1) as result. In this simple example
> there are 4 different algorithms ?for f(x) -> g(x) -> N, and one
> should be able to simply choose between them, e.g. by calling
> N(g1, f2, (a,b)).
>
> In practice algorithm is not necessary so linear, ?but is
> generally tree-lika:
>
> (a,b) -> f1(x) --->g1(x)---+
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? |--> h(x) --> N
> (c,d) ---+--> g2(x)--------+
> ? ? ? ? |
> ?f2(x) --+
>
>
> It would be nice to have some class of function-objects,
> that f1(x), .., g1(x), ... could be members/instances of so that common
> operations on these functions could be possible (checking
> that they satisfy some necessary properties, plotting them, ...),
> and then second "class" of transformations/methods operating on
> these objects.
> I seem to be confused by the fact that I would like to somehow treat
> algorithms as objects (so that one can experiment with different
> algorithm systems) but I don't have clear picture how to do it.
> I am just brainstorming for ideas. Any advice is welcome.

It sounds like you're describing the Strategy Pattern
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategy_pattern).

To have objects callable like functions, just implement the  __call__
special method in your class(es):
http://docs.python.org/reference/datamodel.html#object.__call__

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From mensanator at aol.com  Thu Aug 27 19:19:26 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 16:19:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
References:  
	
	<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com> 
	
	
	
	
	<02a31f91$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<44bcb727-0885-4d4f-9c11-ca60a39b0d91@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<02a3e1e2$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<02a53d89$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<8d25833e-8008-42e9-ad24-10ddd4f6cbef@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
Message-ID: <4ee81a75-e22d-4bf7-8b40-b883cc6e69c6@k30g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 27, 2:26?pm, Piet van Oostrum  wrote:
> >>>>> Mensanator  (M) wrote:
> >M> On Aug 26, 4:59?pm, Piet van Oostrum  wrote:
> >>> >>>>> Mensanator  (M) wrote:
> >>> >M> That's my point. Since the common usage of "binary" is for
> >>> >M> Standard Positional Number System of Radix 2, it follows
> >>> >M> that "unary" is the common usage for Standard Positional
> >>> >M> Number System of Radix 1. That's VERY confusing since such
> >>> >M> a system is undefined. Remember, common usage does not
> >>> >M> necessarily properly define things. Saying simply "unary"
> >>> >M> sounds like you're extending common usage beyond its proper
> >>> >M> boundaries.
>
> >>> But the customary meaning of `unary' is the tally system, as a radix
> >>> system wouldn't make sense. I don't know when this term came into use
> >>> but I have known it for a long time.
> >M> Ok, I'll accept that and in the same breath say such common usage
> >M> is stupid. I, for one, have never heard such usage and would never
> >M> use "unary" in the same breath as "decimal, octal, binary" even if
> >M> I had.
>
> As I see it, unary just means that there is one symbol. Binary just
> means that there are two symbols, etc.

Right, and neither word, by itself, gives the full meaning.

>
> With unary, the only sensible numerical interpretation is to count the
> number of occurrences of that symbol, or if you also want to have the
> number 0, the number of occurrences - 1.

Trouble is, nothing's stopping you from making a non-sensible
interpretation.

>
> With binary and higher you can come up with more numerical
> interpretations but the most efficient one is the radix interpretation
> (for different values of `efficient'). I doubt that there are many other
> interpretations that you can call sensible.

But not impossible. You could have a base-3 tally system for ticking
off how many cars on a three lane road pass a given point. And you can
have mixed radix systems (pounds, shillings, pence or degrees, minutes
seconds).

> Therefore we immediately
> think of a radix system when we talk about binary, octal, decimal etc.
> But the word `binary' itself doesn't imply that.

Just as unary doesn't imply that it's an extension of binary made by
simply changing the base because there's more to it than that.
Yet, I constantly run into people who get confused by this. As a
result, I will never use the word "unary" even if it is considered
acceptable. If I'm trying to imply some sort of base-1 system,
I'll explain what I'm talking about and not assume the listener
will fully understand what is meant by "unary".

> --
> Piet van Oostrum 
> URL:http://pietvanoostrum.com[PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
> Private email: p... at vanoostrum.org


From barcaroller at music.net  Thu Aug 27 19:20:00 2009
From: barcaroller at music.net (barcaroller)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 19:20:00 -0400
Subject: PyGTK problems after Linux update...
Message-ID: 


I use a python-based program called 'meld' which worked fine until my latest 
Fedora11/KDE4.3 update; it now gives me the following error:

    prompt> meld

    /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/gtk-2.0/glib/_glib.so: undefined 
symbol: PyUnicodeUCS4_DecodeUTF8
    Meld requires pygtk 2.8.0 or higher.


If I run another GTK-based utility, I also get errors:

    prompt> gedit

    ** (gedit:28289): WARNING **: Error initializing Python interpreter: 
could not import pygtk.



I have installed the latest PyGTK (pygtk-2.14.1), to no avail.  Googling 
these messages have also produced no major results.  When I run 
'pygtk-demo', I get the following errors:

    prompt> python /usr/lib/pygtk/2.0/pygtk-demo.py

    Traceback (most recent call last):
    File "/usr/lib/pygtk/2.0/pygtk-demo.py", line 18, in 
        import gobject
    File "/usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gobject/__init__.py", 
line 33, in 
        from glib import spawn_async, idle_add, timeout_add, 
timeout_add_seconds, \
    File "/usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/gtk-2.0/glib/__init__.py", line 
30, in 
        from glib._glib import *
    ImportError: /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/gtk-2.0/glib/_glib.so: 
undefined symbol: PyUnicodeUCS4_DecodeUTF8


Does anyone know what needs to be done to resolve this?  Using Python 2.6.2 
on Fedora11/KDE4.3 32-bit i386/i586/i686.






From upton at virginia.edu  Thu Aug 27 19:35:04 2009
From: upton at virginia.edu (Dan Upton)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 16:35:04 -0700
Subject: printing from child process in Tkinter window
Message-ID: <5504f9ac0908271635j1926850y45c048f41c1ef0e@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I've been messing with this for a couple hours now but can't make it work.
Basically I have a Tkinter GUI that creates a child process via
subprocess.Popen, and I would like to capture the child process's output to
display it in a Text widget in the GUI.  Relevant snippets:

def click_start: #launch from clicking a button in the gui
   ...
   self.apppipe = Popen(cmdString, shell=True, stdout=PIPE, stderr=PIPE)
   self.master.after(200, self.readAppStdout)
   ...

def readAppStdout(self):
   readers, writers, exceptionals = select.select( [self.apppipe.stdout],
[], [], 0.001)
   if readers != []:
      pipetext = self.apppipe.stdout.readline()
      self.appoutput.insert(END, pipetext) #self.appoutput is the Text
widget

   (same for apppipe.stderr)
   self.master.after(200, self.readAppStdout)

I don't ever get any output in my window, even though I've waited long
enough that the application would otherwise have printed to the console
(based on its graphical outputs).  Any suggestions for what I'm doing wrong?

-dan
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From hjtoi-better-remove-before-reply at comcast.net  Thu Aug 27 19:43:40 2009
From: hjtoi-better-remove-before-reply at comcast.net (Heikki Toivonen)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 16:43:40 -0700
Subject: ANN: M2Crypto 0.20.1
Message-ID: 

M2Crypto is the most complete Python wrapper for OpenSSL featuring RSA,
DSA, DH, HMACs, message digests, symmetric ciphers (including AES); SSL
functionality to implement clients and servers; HTTPS extensions to
Python's httplib, urllib, and xmlrpclib; unforgeable HMAC'ing
AuthCookies for web session management; FTP/TLS client and server;
S/MIME; ZServerSSL: A HTTPS server for Zope and ZSmime: An S/MIME
messenger for Zope. Smartcards supported with the Engine interface.

This is the 0.20.1 release. Download links and bug filing instructions
on the homepage at
http://chandlerproject.org/Projects/MeTooCrypto.

Changelog:
- Fix regression in httpslib.ProxyHTTPSConnection, by Miloslav Trmac

-- 
  Heikki Toivonen - http://heikkitoivonen.net


From no.email at please.post  Thu Aug 27 19:49:27 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 23:49:27 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	
	
	 
Message-ID: 


Miles Kaufmann  writes:

>On Aug 26, 2009, at 1:11 PM, kj wrote:
>> I think I understand the answers well enough.  What I *really*
>> don't understand is why this particular "feature" of Python (i.e.
>> that functions defined within a class statement are forbidden from
>> "seeing" other identifiers defined within the class statement) is
>> generally considered to be perfectly OK.  IMO it's a bizarre,
>> inexplicable blindspot (which, among other things, gives rise to
>> a certain worry about what other similar craziness lurks under
>> Python's image of rationality).  I have never seen even a half-hearted
>> justification, from a language design point of view, for why this
>> particular "feature" is worth having.

>Guido's design justifications:
>http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2000-November/010598.html

Ah!  Clarity!  Thanks!  How did you find this?  Did you know of
this post already?  Or is there some special way to search Guido's
"design justifications"?

>...because the suite  
>namespace and the class namespace would get out of sync when different  
>objects were assigned to the class namespace:

>class C:
>   x = 1
>   def foo(self):
>       print x
>       print self.x

> >>> o = C()
> >>> o.foo()
>1
>1
> >>> o.x = 2
> >>> o.foo()
>1
>2

But this unfortunate situation is already possible, because one
can already define

class C:
   x = 1
   def foo(self):
       print C.x
       print self.x

which would lead to exactly the same thing.

I need to learn more about metaclasses, though, to fully understand
your post.

Many thanks!

kynn


From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Thu Aug 27 20:00:36 2009
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (Bearophile)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 17:00:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Algorithms as objects?
References: 
	
Message-ID: <9bd48179-a356-4d7f-8057-f68db29d6cad@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

Chris Rebert:

> It sounds like you're describing the Strategy Pattern
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategy_pattern).
>
> To have objects callable like functions, just implement the ?__call__
> special method in your class(es):

Please, can't you just use a bit of functional-style programming? Like
creating nested functions on the fly, etc.

Bye,
bearophile


From doctoresam at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 20:34:17 2009
From: doctoresam at gmail.com (Deep_Feelings)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 17:34:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: why python got less developers ?
Message-ID: 

python got relatively fewer numbers of developers than other high
level languages like .NET , java .. etc  why ?


From mwilson at the-wire.com  Thu Aug 27 20:39:56 2009
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 20:39:56 -0400
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: 
	<0018e1a0$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<02a0ce27$0$30337$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> Leading zeroes in decimal numbers are *very* common in dates and times.

In banking too, according to someone at work today.

	Mel.




From clp2 at rebertia.com  Thu Aug 27 20:46:36 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 17:46:36 -0700
Subject: why python got less developers ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908271746v7116a1ffo62d5dced879a2c6a@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Deep_Feelings wrote:
> python got relatively fewer numbers of developers than other high
> level languages like .NET , java .. etc ?why ?

We lack Sun and Microsoft's massive marketing departments. :)

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Aug 27 20:47:51 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 01:47:51 +0100
Subject: why python got less developers ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A972937.9070405@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Deep_Feelings wrote:
> python got relatively fewer numbers of developers than other high
> level languages like .NET , java .. etc  why ?

Fewer needed?


From gherron at islandtraining.com  Thu Aug 27 20:49:02 2009
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 17:49:02 -0700
Subject: why python got less developers ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A97297E.9020607@islandtraining.com>

Deep_Feelings wrote:
> python got relatively fewer numbers of developers than other high
> level languages like .NET , java .. etc  why ?
>   

Perhaps because we value QUALITY over QUANTITY ...

Gary Herron




From rurpy at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 27 20:49:26 2009
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 17:49:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: break unichr instead of fix ord?
References: <2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4A95A4D1.9060008@v.loewis.de>
	
	<4A961EE1.9010103@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <65e6c430-9dc4-4a90-8448-f8f587d19750@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On 08/26/2009 11:51 PM, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote:
 >[...]
 >>  But regardless, the significant question is, what is
 >>  the reason for having ord() (and unichr) not work for
 >>  surrogate pairs and thus not usable with a large number
 >>  of unicode characters that Python otherwise supports?
 >
 > See PEP 261, http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0261/
 > It specifies all this.

The PEP (AFAICT) says only what we already know... that
on narrow builds unichr() will raise an exception with
an argument >= 0x10000, and ord() is unichr()'s inverse.

I have read the PEP twice now and still see no justification
for that decision, it appears to have been made by fiat.[*1]

Could you or someone please point me to specific justification
for having unichr and ord work only for a subset of unicode
characters on narrow builds, as opposed to the more general
and IMO useful behavior proposed earlier in this thread?

----------------------------------------------------------
[*1]
The PEP says:
     * unichr(i) for 0 <= i < 2**16 (0x10000) always returns a
       length-one string.

     * unichr(i) for 2**16 <= i <= TOPCHAR will return a
       length-one string on wide Python builds. On narrow
       builds it will raise ValueError.
and
     * ord() is always the inverse of unichr()

which of course we know; that is the current behavior.  But
there is no reason given for that behavior.

Under the second *unicode bullet point, there are two issues
raised:
   1) Should surrogate pairs be disallowed on narrow builds?
That appears to have been answered in the negative and is
not relevant to my question.
   2) Should access to code points above TOPCHAR be allowed?
Not relevant to my question.

     * every Python Unicode character represents exactly
       one Unicode code point (i.e. Python Unicode
       Character = Abstract Unicode character)

I'm not sure what this means (what's an abstract unicode
character?).  If it mandates that u'\ud800\udc40' be
treated as a len() 2 string, that is that current case
but does not say anything about how unichr and ord
should behave.  If it mandates that that string must
always be treated as two separate code points then
Python itself violates by printing that string as
u'\U00010040' rather than u'\ud800\udc40'.

Finally we read:

     * There is a convention in the Unicode world for
       encoding a 32-bit code point in terms of two
       16-bit code points. These are known as
       "surrogate pairs". Python's codecs will adopt
       this convention.

Is a distinction made between Python and Python
codecs with only the latter having any knowledge of
surrogate pairs?  I guess that would explain why
Python prints a surrogate pair as a single character.
But this seems arbitrary and counter-useful if
applied to ord() and unichr().  What possible
use-case is there for *not* recognizing surrogate
pairs in those two functions?

Nothing else in the PEP seems remotely relevant.


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Thu Aug 27 20:55:35 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 10:55:35 +1000
Subject: [OT] How do I reply to a thread by sending a message to
	python-list@python.org
References: <20090827073102.293C91DF2@ctb-mesg8.saix.net>
	<4A964C3B.8090206@ieee.org> 
	
	
	
Message-ID: <87bpm0daew.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Terry Reedy  writes:

> In particular, because there is no indication that it is an exact
> duplicate of what I will also find on the list itself. Please use
> reply instead of reply-all.

Better: If you don't want to reply to the author directly, and you don't
want to reply to everyone, don't use ?reply to author? or ?reply to
all?.

When replying to the list, use the ?reply to list? command of your mail
client. This will, in a standards-compliant mail client, reply to the
posting address for the list (declared in the message header via the RFC
2369 ?List-Post? field, added automatically by every common mailing list
system), without a copy to the sender.

Thunderbird has a long-outstanding bug report requesting this feature
, which is
apparently fixed in recent versions. Before that bug was fixed, an
add-on  was
developed to add it in a different way.

If you're using a different mail client, look for the ?reply to list?
command, and if it's not there (or doesn't work correctly), report it to
the vendor as a bug and/or switch to one of the many alternative MUAs
that get it right.

-- 
 \      ?I think it would be a good idea.? ?Mahatma Gandhi (when asked |
  `\                          what he thought of Western civilization) |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From contact at xavierho.com  Thu Aug 27 21:16:41 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 11:16:41 +1000
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
	 
	
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908271816m68b761deq778f5105c2957baa@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 9:49 AM, kj  wrote:

>
> Miles Kaufmann  writes:
>
> >...because the suite
> >namespace and the class namespace would get out of sync when different
> >objects were assigned to the class namespace:
>
> >class C:
> >   x = 1
> >   def foo(self):
> >       print x
> >       print self.x
>
> > >>> o = C()
> > >>> o.foo()
> >1
> >1
> > >>> o.x = 2
> > >>> o.foo()
> >1
> >2
>

I haven't tested either codes, but that isn't "out of sync". Your x = 1 is a
static variable, and shared between all isntances of class C.


> But this unfortunate situation is already possible, because one
> can already define
>
> class C:
>   x = 1
>   def foo(self):
>        print C.x
>       print self.x
>
> which would lead to exactly the same thing.
>

It works because you're simply explicitly referring to the class's local
scope, which leads to the same result.

Again, that's just my understanding of the implementation.

Cheers,
Xav
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From ptmcg at austin.rr.com  Thu Aug 27 21:48:08 2009
From: ptmcg at austin.rr.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 18:48:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: regexp help
References: <4e548d26-f3c9-46b8-a82a-c012607e2ff8@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 27, 1:15?pm, Bakes  wrote:
> If I were using the code:
>
> (?P[0-9]+)
>
> to get an integer between 0 and 9, how would I allow it to register
> negative integers as well?

With that + sign in there, you will actually get an integer from 0 to
99999999999999999...

-- Paul


From pydecker at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 21:48:40 2009
From: pydecker at gmail.com (Peter Decker)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 21:48:40 -0400
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<7a9c25c20908240849p283cb70o50f374a4f8c867b@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<81ac68ae-c7fc-4caa-a04f-f358ffb78864@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 4:47 PM, David C Ullrich wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 22:22:20 -0700, sturlamolden wrote:
>
>> On 25 Aug, 05:56, Peter Decker  wrote:
>>
>>> I use the Dabo Class Designer to visually design my forms. So what's
>>> you're point?  :)
>>
>> Nothing, except lobbying for wxFormBuilder for anyone who still doesn't
>> know of it. :)
>
> That's great. But do you know of anything I can use as a
> visual form design tool in wxPython?

You mean you prefer the wxPython style of coding? No, I don't know
what's available. Once I discovered that Dabo is the smart way to get
all the benefits of wxPython without the ugly C++ style of coding, I
haven't used raw wxPython.

-- 

# p.d.


From doctoresam at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 22:12:57 2009
From: doctoresam at gmail.com (Esam Qanadeely)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 19:12:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: why python got less developers ?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 28, 3:46?am, Chris Rebert  wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Deep_Feelings wrote:
> > python got relatively fewer numbers of developers than other high
> > level languages like .NET , java .. etc ?why ?
>
> We lack Sun and Microsoft's massive marketing departments. :)
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --http://blog.rebertia.com

any technical reasons ??


From somebody at somewhere.com  Thu Aug 27 22:23:00 2009
From: somebody at somewhere.com (Stephen Fairchild)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 03:23:00 +0100
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	
	
	 
	
Message-ID: 

kj wrote:

> But this unfortunate situation is already possible, because one
> can already define
> 
> class C:
>     x = 1
>     def foo(self):
>         print C.x
>         print self.x

How is this a problem? There is no ambiguity between the global scope and
the local from within foo.

>From within foo C is accessed from the global scope having not found it as a
local. Once you have C C.x is just one step away. 

Variable self is local to function foo since it was passed in as a parameter
from the method which wraps it. 

Variable self refers to a class instance which contains a dictionary.
Variable x is absent from the instance dictionary so the class
self.__class__ is referenced, again from local scope to find x. If it
wasn't found there the superclasses would have been searched before
throwing an attribute error.

It seems to me, you are confusing instance creation with class creation.
-- 
Stephen Fairchild


From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Thu Aug 27 22:33:57 2009
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:33:57 -0400
Subject: why python got less developers ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 10:12 PM, Esam Qanadeely wrote:
> On Aug 28, 3:46?am, Chris Rebert  wrote:
>> On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Deep_Feelings wrote:
>> > python got relatively fewer numbers of developers than other high
>> > level languages like .NET , java .. etc ?why ?
>>
>> We lack Sun and Microsoft's massive marketing departments. :)
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Chris
>> --http://blog.rebertia.com
>
> any technical reasons ??
> --

Not really. It's mostly because of the lack of marketing departments
and pieces of paper to placate business majors (what Microsoft and Sun
call "certification")

> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From milesck at umich.edu  Thu Aug 27 23:27:23 2009
From: milesck at umich.edu (Miles Kaufmann)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 20:27:23 -0700
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
	 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 27, 2009, at 4:49 PM, kj wrote:

> Miles Kaufmann  writes:
>> Guido's design justifications:
>> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2000-November/010598.html
>
> Ah!  Clarity!  Thanks!  How did you find this?  Did you know of
> this post already?  Or is there some special way to search Guido's
> "design justifications"?

I just checked the python-dev archives around the time that PEP 227  
was written.

>> ...because the suite
>> namespace and the class namespace would get out of sync when  
>> different
>> objects were assigned to the class namespace:
>
>> class C:
>> x = 1
>> def foo(self):
>>     print x
>>     print self.x
>
>>>>> o = C()
>>>>> o.foo()
>> 1
>> 1
>>>>> o.x = 2
>>>>> o.foo()
>> 1
>> 2
>
> But this unfortunate situation is already possible, because one
> can already define
>
> class C:
>  x = 1
>  def foo(self):
>      print C.x
>      print self.x
>
> which would lead to exactly the same thing.

You're right, of course.  If I had been thinking properly, I would  
have posted this:

... the suite namespace and the class namespace would get out of sync  
when different objects were assigned to the class namespace:

    # In a hypothetical Python with nested class suite scoping:
    class C:
        x = 1
        @classmethod
        def foo(cls):
            print x
            print cls.x

    >>> C.foo()
    1
    1
    >>> C.x = 2
    >>> C.foo()
    1
    2

With your example, the result is at least easily explainable: self.x  
is originally 1 because the object namespace inherits from the class  
namespace, but running 'o.x = 2' rebinds 'x' in the object namespace  
(without affecting the class namespace).  It's a distinction that  
sometimes trips up newbies (and me, apparently ;) ), but it's  
straightforward to comprehend once explained.  But the distinction  
between the class suite namespace and the class namespace is far more  
subtle; extending the lifetime of the first so that it still exists  
after the second is created is, IMO, asking for trouble (and trying to  
unify the two double so).

-Miles



From rt8396 at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 23:41:47 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 20:41:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: why python got less developers ?
References: 
Message-ID: <71fc40ff-cf0e-4b15-b60c-dd42deaac49d@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 27, 7:34?pm, Deep_Feelings  wrote:
> python got relatively fewer numbers of developers than other high
> level languages like .NET , java .. etc ?why ?

Ugh? Well maybe if you put some deep_thoughts into this conundrum you
may reveal the answer to your self. Python is an interpreted
"scripting", "glue", and "sys administation" language. As long as Java
can be complied strait to machine code and constantly run light years
faster than Python Java will always win in this area. But who cares,
Python is not meant for writing OS's or 3D games of the year, and i am
quite happy it is made to be that way. Python will never be as popular
as C, Java, etc for all these reasons. And since your chances of
making a living writing Java code verses Python code are absolute,
then of course that is where the pros will go.


From contact at xavierho.com  Thu Aug 27 23:48:31 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:48:31 +1000
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
	 
	
	
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908272048m656cecb9nc68f1fd3bfdf02bb@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 1:27 PM, Miles Kaufmann  wrote:

> You're right, of course.  If I had been thinking properly, I would have
> posted this:
>
> ... the suite namespace and the class namespace would get out of sync when
> different objects were assigned to the class namespace:


I'm not an expert on Python, but could you define "out of sync" for me? When
you call the class as a new instance and assign it to a new variable, the
class attributes (self.x) are independent for each instance. The static
variables in the class (x, or C.x in this case) is shared between all
instances of this class.


>   # In a hypothetical Python with nested class suite scoping:


Class already provides some kind of scoping/namespace, that is the locals()
method for the class. What is pypothetical about this, if you could
elaborate?



With your example, the result is at least easily explainable: self.x is
> originally 1


Incorrect. "self.x" (or cls.x in your sample code) doesn't exist until you
called o.x = 2, which sets "cls.x = 2".

Don't be confused between static variables that are initialised at class
creation, and the class attributes which usually is declared inside the
__init__ method.


> because the object namespace inherits from the class namespace, but running
> 'o.x = 2' rebinds 'x' in the object namespace (without affecting the class
> namespace).


See above comment.


> It's a distinction that sometimes trips up newbies (and me, apparently ;)
> ), but it's straightforward to comprehend once explained.  But the
> distinction between the class suite namespace and the class namespace is far
> more subtle; extending the lifetime of the first so that it still exists
> after the second is created is, IMO, asking for trouble (and trying to unify
> the two double so).


It is. I had trouble getting it also, but once I think of all the variables
outside of the __init__() method as "static", and the ones within as "class
attributes", everything clears out just fine. =]

Any corrections appreciated. I'm merely posting my understanding of Python.

Cheers,
- Xav
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From contact at xavierho.com  Thu Aug 27 23:51:56 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:51:56 +1000
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: <2d56febf0908272048m656cecb9nc68f1fd3bfdf02bb@mail.gmail.com>
References: 
	
	
	 
	
	
	<2d56febf0908272048m656cecb9nc68f1fd3bfdf02bb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908272051h26f84ad9t218f39e86e74b2@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 1:48 PM, Xavier Ho  wrote:

>
> Class already provides some kind of scoping/namespace, that is the locals()
> method for the class. What is pypothetical about this, if you could
> elaborate?
>

Obviously that was supposed to be "hypothetical". Oops.
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From dukeofperl at ml1.net  Thu Aug 27 23:52:56 2009
From: dukeofperl at ml1.net (Duke Normandin)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 03:52:56 GMT
Subject: Transforming a str to an operator
Message-ID: 

Hey....

I'm a Python noob....

So far so good!

I've written the following:

num1 = raw_input('Enter the first number: ')
num2 = raw_input('Enter the second number: ')
op = raw_input('Select one of the following [+-*/]: ')
print 'The answer is: ', int(num1), eval(op), int(num2)
                                    ^^^^^^^^

How do I convert the contents of "op" from a string to an actual
arithmetic operator? eval() does not seem to be the answer. TIA!
-- 
duke


From contact at xavierho.com  Fri Aug 28 00:01:16 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 14:01:16 +1000
Subject: Transforming a str to an operator
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908272101y3f237951o32c04f30bd42a69e@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 1:52 PM, Duke Normandin  wrote:

> How do I convert the contents of "op" from a string to an actual
> arithmetic operator? eval() does not seem to be the answer. TIA!


Maybe you were looking for

print eval(num1 + op + num2) # it's a little ugly string concatenation.

Hm? (untested, but it works in my head.)

Cheers,
Xav
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From rt8396 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 00:08:54 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 21:08:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Transforming a str to an operator
References: 
Message-ID: <6ee483f7-e92c-49e0-be27-125f3389b1f2@33g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 27, 10:52?pm, Duke Normandin  wrote:
> How do I convert the contents of "op" from a string to an actual
> arithmetic operator? eval() does not seem to be the answer. TIA!


Try this..

>>> op = '+'
>>> one = '1'
>>> two = '2'
>>> one+op+two
'1+2'
>>> eval(one+op+two)
3


you could also use string formatting.


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Fri Aug 28 00:30:48 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 21:30:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Question on the "csv" library
References: <055885e5-b2ee-4ca7-84d9-238034b8f21d@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20090827213628.180142f6@geekmail.INVALID> 
	<20090827214240.70aeb792@geekmail.INVALID>
	<4587853e-5aaa-4be0-af87-d758481c6077@r42g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <9f3083b4-4886-41c3-9404-d7eac300964b@l35g2000pra.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 28, 6:44?am, Mark Lawrence  wrote:
> vsoler wrote:
> > On Aug 27, 9:42 pm, Andreas Waldenburger 
>
> > 1- the csv file was generated with Excel 2007; no prompts for what the
> > separator should be; Excel has used ";" by default, without asking
> > anything
>
> I find this difficult to believe,

Mark, there exist parallel universes the denizens of which use strange
notation e.g. 1.234,56 instead of 1,234.56 and would you believe they
use ';' instead of ',' as a list separator ... Excel perfidiously
gives them what they expect rather than forcing them to comply with
The One True Way.


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 00:32:55 2009
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 21:32:55 -0700
Subject: Transforming a str to an operator
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7a9c25c20908272132p737fe070w5a3c7b0a4970a2c9@mail.gmail.com>

>
> num1 = raw_input('Enter the first number: ')
> num2 = raw_input('Enter the second number: ')
> op = raw_input('Select one of the following [+-*/]: ')
> print 'The answer is: ', int(num1), eval(op), int(num2)
>                                    ^^^^^^^^
>
> How do I convert the contents of "op" from a string to an actual
> arithmetic operator? eval() does not seem to be the answer. TIA!
>

You could eval(num1+op+num2), but it'd be safer to do:

import operator
operators = {"+": operator.add, "-": operator.sub, "*": operator.mul, "/":
operator.div}
fn = operators[op]
print "The answer is:", fn(int(num1), int(num2))

Its best to avoid eval when possible :)

--S
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From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Aug 28 00:35:24 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 14:35:24 +1000
Subject: Transforming a str to an operator
References: 
Message-ID: <87skfcblo3.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Duke Normandin  writes:

> Hey....
>
> I'm a Python noob....
>
> So far so good!
>
> I've written the following:
>
> num1 = raw_input('Enter the first number: ')
> num2 = raw_input('Enter the second number: ')
> op = raw_input('Select one of the following [+-*/]: ')
> print 'The answer is: ', int(num1), eval(op), int(num2)
>                                     ^^^^^^^^
>
> How do I convert the contents of "op" from a string to an actual
> arithmetic operator? eval() does not seem to be the answer. TIA!

In general, ?eval? on unsanitised input is not the answer.

I would use the following approach:

    import operator

    op_funcs = {
        '+': operator.add,
        '-': operator.sub,
        '*': operator.mul,
        '/': operator.div,
        }

    num_1 = int(raw_input('Enter the first number: '))
    num_2 = int(raw_input('Enter the second number: '))
    op_prompt = (
        "Select an operator "
        + "[" + "".join(s for s in op_funcs.keys()) + "]"
        + ": ")
    op_symbol = raw_input(op_prompt)
    op_func = op_funcs[op_symbol]
    print 'The answer is: ', op_func(num_1, num_2)

This has several advantages:

* The input isn't evaluated directly as code.

* The operator symbols are specified in one place, the ?op_funcs?
  mapping; if you want to change the set of possible operators, you just
  change it there.

* If the input results in an operator that's not defined, it won't
  attempt to perform it; instead, a simple KeyError will result when
  trying to find the corresponding operator function.

-- 
 \           ?I do not believe in immortality of the individual, and I |
  `\        consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no |
_o__)  superhuman authority behind it.? ?Albert Einstein, letter, 1953 |
Ben Finney


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Fri Aug 28 00:49:45 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 06:49:45 +0200
Subject: why python got less developers ?
In-Reply-To: <71fc40ff-cf0e-4b15-b60c-dd42deaac49d@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<71fc40ff-cf0e-4b15-b60c-dd42deaac49d@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a9761e8$0$31876$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>

r wrote:
> As long as Java
> can be complied strait to machine code

I think you meant "compared" here.

Stefan


From contact at xavierho.com  Fri Aug 28 00:50:37 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 14:50:37 +1000
Subject: Transforming a str to an operator
In-Reply-To: <87skfcblo3.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: 
	<87skfcblo3.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908272150y59e5d458hab1fc6aa9c14187e@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Ben Finney

> wrote:

>    import operator
>
>    op_funcs = {
>        '+': operator.add,
>        '-': operator.sub,
>        '*': operator.mul,
>        '/': operator.div,
>        }
>
>    num_1 = int(raw_input('Enter the first number: '))
>    num_2 = int(raw_input('Enter the second number: '))
>    op_prompt = "Select an operator ({}):".format(','.join(op for op in
> op_funcs))
>
   op_symbol = raw_input(op_prompt)
>    op_func = op_funcs[op_symbol]
>    print 'The answer is: ', op_func(num_1, num_2)


Just fixing the code a little to be more "Pythonic" ;).

Might also want to do exception handling, but with a program this small,
meh.
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From doctoresam at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 01:03:54 2009
From: doctoresam at gmail.com (Esam Qanadeely)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:03:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: why python got less developers ?
References: 
	<71fc40ff-cf0e-4b15-b60c-dd42deaac49d@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

who cares if a language is compiled or interpreted as long as it runs
and perform the function.

second thing is : even if java is faster than python , unless you are
making performance critical operations : who cares? computers are
getting faster all the time and languages like python or ruby are fast
enough.

any comment ?


From doctoresam at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 01:05:29 2009
From: doctoresam at gmail.com (Esam Qanadeely)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:05:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: why python got less developers ?
References: 
	<71fc40ff-cf0e-4b15-b60c-dd42deaac49d@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: <42a1c81d-b2ec-46b7-9cf2-6e099bd260a3@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

i meant fast enough for most (but not all) applications


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 01:08:01 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:08:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Transforming a str to an operator
References: 
	<87skfcblo3.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <91126ac3-e7fe-4b7a-a37d-d1e60beaa278@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 27, 11:35?pm, Ben Finney  wrote:
> In general, ?eval? on unsanitised input is not the answer.

Yes i agree.

> I would use the following approach:

Abviously the OP is a python baby noob and casting your irrational
fear (and many others irrational fears) of eval at him is akin to
tales of Chupacabras running a muck in the jungle sucking the blood
from live goats in the twilight hours. I use eval all the time and
quite love it.

This is nothing more than a throw away academic exercise that will
serve no useful purpose for him in the future, but serves the very
useful purpose now of establishing an IO between the student and
Python interpretor. I'll bet most your example (albeit a good example)
flew miles above his head into la-la land.

The OP has plenty of time to learn about malicious input and
protecting against it, right now the fundamentals are well...
fundamental :)


From timr at probo.com  Fri Aug 28 01:27:45 2009
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:27:45 -0700
Subject: why python got less developers ?
References: 
Message-ID: 

Deep_Feelings  wrote:
>
>python got relatively fewer numbers of developers than other high
>level languages like .NET , java .. etc  why ?

How do you know, and why does it matter?

By the way, .NET is not a language.  I assume you meant C#.
-- 
Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From max at landaeus.com  Fri Aug 28 01:36:33 2009
From: max at landaeus.com (Max Landaeus)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:36:33 +0800
Subject: Does Class implements Interface?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <800d9226-6bbc-447e-a171-83777a9634b8@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>	<3e18a803-4445-4dcf-8d8f-7661fd46ab93@y4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4A976CE1.2050506@landaeus.com>


Emanuele D'Arrigo wrote:
> On Aug 27, 9:42 pm, Jonathan Gardner 
> wrote:
>   
>> Have you heard of duck typing?
>>     
>
> Yes.
>
>   
>> Ignore all those things and rely on human (aka natural language)
>> documentation. That is, if you want to see if a class will work for an
>> interface, go read the docs on the interface (or rather, what the
>> function expects the interface to be) and what the class provides and
>> see if they fit.
>>     
>
> Apologies, my fault, I didn't explain that humans are out of the loop
> entirely. It's only at runtime that the program obtains the class
> object that might or might not conform to an expected interface. In
> fact the program might obtain multiple objects and have to decide
> which one conforms best to the expected interface. Of course I could
> use hasattr() and the inspect module (anything else?) to find out if
> existing attributes and method signatures are those expected. Or I
> could just deal with the exceptions as they are raised. However, if I
> could somehow rely that the object I'm getting has the right methods
> and signatures I could avoid peppering the code with try/except
> constructs.
>
> I was just wondering then if this has been somewhat dealt with and has
> been wrapped in a neat package, set of functions, recipe or pattern.
>
> Manu
>   
Check out Alex Martelli's recipe 'Checking wheter an object has 
necessary attributes' in the Python Cookbook:
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Q0s6Vgb98CQC&printsec=frontcover&dq=python+cookbook#v=onepage&q=&f=false 


Max


From doctoresam at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 01:44:59 2009
From: doctoresam at gmail.com (Esam Qanadeely)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:44:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: why python got less developers ?
References: 
	
Message-ID: <1ccf54f5-b1f5-4c4a-b782-fde1a1648cf6@l5g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 28, 8:27?am, Tim Roberts  wrote:
> Deep_Feelings  wrote:
>
> >python got relatively fewer numbers of developers than other high
> >level languages like .NET , java .. etc ?why ?
>
> How do you know, and why does it matter?
>
> By the way, .NET is not a language. ?I assume you meant C#.
> --
> Tim Roberts, t... at probo.com
> Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.

you know when you go to forums and compare the number of posts and
topics ,and you know when you google and compare the number of results

.NET= i meant all .NET languages


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 01:52:11 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:52:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: why python got less developers ?
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 27, 7:34?pm, Deep_Feelings  wrote:
> python got relatively fewer numbers of developers than other high
> level languages like .NET , java .. etc ?why ?

Oh, and why on god's green would you ever compare Java (*puke*) and
Python in the same breath? You say Python is a "high-level-language"?
Well sir,  i say Python is a "super-high-level-language" that
approaches pseudo code simplicity *but* stays far enough away from it
so as not to be scorched by it's asinine synonymous quirks.


From frank at chagford.com  Fri Aug 28 02:01:01 2009
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 08:01:01 +0200
Subject: Move dictionary from instance to class level
References: 
	<705c21b0-2858-46c2-8230-3cea64f5be3a@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 


Anthony Tolle wrote:
> To take things one step further, I would recommend using decorators to
> allow symbolic association of functions with the message identifiers,
> as follows:
>

[...]

That's neat. Thanks.

Frank




From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 02:01:29 2009
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 23:01:29 -0700
Subject: Transforming a str to an operator
In-Reply-To: <91126ac3-e7fe-4b7a-a37d-d1e60beaa278@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<87skfcblo3.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<91126ac3-e7fe-4b7a-a37d-d1e60beaa278@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c20908272301p7675c8f4q91dbb5ea4b790210@mail.gmail.com>

>
> > I would use the following approach:
>
> Abviously the OP is a python baby noob and casting your irrational
> fear (and many others irrational fears) of eval at him is akin to
> tales of Chupacabras running a muck in the jungle sucking the blood
> from live goats in the twilight hours. I use eval all the time and
> quite love it.
>

Yes, the OP is clearly a newbie to the language and probably programming in
general, but that response is nonsense. It's a perfect example of a false
analogy. Chupacabras are superstition, baseless fear-mongering. eval() is a
very real dangerous construct. There is absolutely nothing irrational about
the unsafe nature of eval.

It is a tool: it is a useful tool if one knows how to use it, but is a tool
that you'll slam into your thumb and break it if you don't know how. When
there are tools available which address the same problem without those
dangers, newbies should be exposed to THOSE first.



> This is nothing more than a throw away academic exercise that will
> serve no useful purpose for him in the future, but serves the very
> useful purpose now of establishing an IO between the student and
> Python interpretor. I'll bet most your example (albeit a good example)
> flew miles above his head into la-la land.
>

I prefer not to assume newbies are stupid; if they don't understand a part
of a correct explanation that's given, they can ask for clarification and
further details can be given.

True, this is a very Python-specific "correct" example to this basic
problem, with dictionary dispatch which is a very Pythonic idiom that might
be a bit too much for a newbie to programming in general: if that's the
case, the correct thing to show the newbie would be:

if op == "+":
    print "The result is:", int(num1) + int(num2)
elif op == "-":
    print "The result is:", int(num1) - int(num2)

..etc.

Exposing newbies to eval() is simply irresponsible. It is not an irrational
fear: eval has a purpose and it is useful and it's fine to use, IF you
understand the language and implications enough to use it. If you don't, if
you're a newbie to programming entirely, it is good sense and a benefit to
the newbie to steer the person away from something that will get them in
trouble down the road. If they're not ready to deal with input sanitization,
that's fine... but exposing them to dangerous practices when there's clear
and logical alternate approaches is fool-hearty.

The OP has plenty of time to learn about malicious input and
> protecting against it, right now the fundamentals are well...
> fundamental :)


eval is simply NOT a fundamental. It should be considered an advanced
feature, for advanced usage; that it seems simple is all the more dangerous.
No one should be taught from an early stage that 'this is how to address a
problem', only to then teach them later, 'Oh, by the way, that thing I
taught you? It's bad in most cases and you shouldn't do it again'.

--S
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From frank at chagford.com  Fri Aug 28 02:06:14 2009
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 08:06:14 +0200
Subject: Move dictionary from instance to class level
References: <20090827102111.ABC3B1F93@ctb-mesg4.saix.net>
	
Message-ID: 

Dave Angel wrote:


> OK, that makes good sense.  And I withdraw any suggestion to use pickling, 
> since that could be subject to hacking.
>
> It now appears that the messages are only incidentally GUI events.  And 
> that you would be well advised to make every possible event a separate 
> message, so that if the server state and the client state get out of 
> synch, you can readily check and reject such operations.  For example, 
> you'd have a message for pressing the SUBMIT button on a particular form, 
> but you'd have different message types for other buttons on the same form, 
> or for SUBMIT on other forms.
>

I use the same message type for all SUBMITs, but the body of the message 
contains a unique id for each button.

When the server constructs the form, it assigns a unique id to each widget, 
and includes this id in the form definition it sends to the client. 
Therefore the server and client can unambiguously reference specific 
widgets, and there is no real danger of getting out of sync.

Frank






From chris at simplistix.co.uk  Fri Aug 28 02:26:45 2009
From: chris at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 07:26:45 +0100
Subject: why python got less developers ?
In-Reply-To: <1ccf54f5-b1f5-4c4a-b782-fde1a1648cf6@l5g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>
References: 	
	<1ccf54f5-b1f5-4c4a-b782-fde1a1648cf6@l5g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A9778A5.1060105@simplistix.co.uk>

Esam Qanadeely wrote:
> .NET= i meant all .NET languages

What? You mean like Python? ;-)

Google IronPython ya troll...

Chris

-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting
            - http://www.simplistix.co.uk


From jvpic at free.fr  Fri Aug 28 02:37:16 2009
From: jvpic at free.fr (jvpic)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 08:37:16 +0200
Subject: Learning Python advanced features
In-Reply-To: <4a967bd6$0$19301$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4a967864$0$15193$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<4a967bd6$0$19301$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4a977b20$0$740$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

Bruno Desthuilliers a ?crit :
> jvpic a ?crit :
>> Hi,
>>
>> Learning Python, I understand the mechanism of : closure, __new__, 
>> descriptors, decorators and __metaclass__, but I interrogate myself on 
>> the interest of those technics ?
>>
>> May somebody explain me the interest ?
> 
> Didn't like my answers on f.c.l.py ?-)
Si, mais je voulais savoir ce qu'on en pense sur un autre forum !
Merci encore...


From simon at brunningonline.net  Fri Aug 28 02:42:29 2009
From: simon at brunningonline.net (Simon Brunning)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 07:42:29 +0100
Subject: Question on the "csv" library
In-Reply-To: <9f3083b4-4886-41c3-9404-d7eac300964b@l35g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
References: <055885e5-b2ee-4ca7-84d9-238034b8f21d@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20090827213628.180142f6@geekmail.INVALID> 
	<20090827214240.70aeb792@geekmail.INVALID>
	<4587853e-5aaa-4be0-af87-d758481c6077@r42g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	
	<9f3083b4-4886-41c3-9404-d7eac300964b@l35g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8c7f10c60908272342o4fc91195m27b56e3b506eb540@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/28 John Machin :
>
> Mark, there exist parallel universes the denizens of which use strange
> notation e.g. 1.234,56 instead of 1,234.56

When displaying data, sure.

> and would you believe they
> use ';' instead of ',' as a list separator ...

CSV is a data transfer format, not a display format. Locale specific
stuff like this has no place in it. Dates, IMHO, should be in the ugly
but unambiguous ISO 8601 format in a CSV. It's for import and export,
not for looking pretty.

Besides - CSV; the clue's in the name. ;-)

> Excel perfidiously
> gives them what they expect rather than forcing them to comply with
> The One True Way.

When people export to a comma separated value file, they are almost
certainly expecting a file containing values separated by comas. If
Excel isn't giving them this by default, it's broken.

-- 
Cheers,
Simon B.


From beorn at seznam.cz  Fri Aug 28 03:45:58 2009
From: beorn at seznam.cz (hoffik)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 00:45:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Select column from a list
Message-ID: <25185508.post@talk.nabble.com>


Hello,

I'm quite new in Python and I have one question. I have a 2D matrix of
values stored in list (3 columns, many rows). I wonder if I can select one
column without having to go through the list with 'for' command.

For example I have list called 'values'.
When I write 'values[0]' or 'values[0][:]' I'll get the first row.
But when I write 'values[:][0]' I won't get the first column, but the first
row again! I can't see why.

Thanks
Hoffik
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Select-column-from-a-list-tp25185508p25185508.html
Sent from the Python - python-list mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Fri Aug 28 03:54:51 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 09:54:51 +0200
Subject: List iterator thread safety
In-Reply-To: <6bf89e55-2ddd-435f-925d-7cc3827c0f9a@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	<6bf89e55-2ddd-435f-925d-7cc3827c0f9a@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <200908280954.51423.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Thursday 27 August 2009 16:50:16 Carl Banks wrote:
> On Aug 27, 7:25?am, Hendrik van Rooyen 
> wrote:

> > Its not too bad - if you crook a bit - the trick is that you iterate over
> > the list backwards when you are removing stuff based on index, so that
> > the remainder does not get jumbled up by losing their positions, as
> > happens when you do it going forwards.
>
> That's only if you remove the "current item".  The OP has different
> threads accessing the list at the same time, so I have to assume that
> item being remove is not necessarily the current iteration.

Sorry - I did not pick that up - The threading screws the simple scheme up.
In such a situation I would have a thread to run the list - almost like a mini 
data base - and link the lot together using queues.  It is still a bugger, 
though, as one thread could try to kill something that is "checked out" to 
another one.  Then you have to take hard decisions, and a list is the wrong 
structure, because you have to remember state.  Better to use a dict, so you 
can at least mark a thing as "dead", and check for that before you update.

8<-------- example --------

> For the record, I use a more sophisticated system that explicitly
> resolves cause and effect in my games.  That's probably beyond the
> scope of this thread, though.

Yes - it is hairy - and there are probably as many different solutions as 
there are programmers, and then some.  :-)

- Hendrik


From eric.brunel at pragmadev.com  Fri Aug 28 03:55:22 2009
From: eric.brunel at pragmadev.com (eb303)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 00:55:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: An assessment of Tkinter and IDLE
References: <55a0833d-3f1f-402a-8eb7-cb4b7861cce5@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 27, 11:22 pm, r  wrote:
> ---------------------------------------------
> Python offical docs and Tkinter
> ---------------------------------------------
> *The Python docs barely cover anything related to actual Tkinter
> coding. At the minimum the Tkinter doc page should have a subpage for
> all the widgets available --which is very small(approx 15) and each
> subpage should list the available methods on that wiget.

I think the general idea behind the 'lack' of documentation is that it
would only double tcl/tk's own documentation. I've always used Tkinter
using the tcl/tk docs here:
http://www.tcl.tk/man/tcl8.5/TkCmd/contents.htm
and once you get used to how you transform tcl syntax to Python
syntax, it works pretty well. Maintaining a documentation for Tkinter
in the official Python docs would force people to run after tcl. I
understand why they don't want to do that, even if I'd love to see a
better Tkinter documentation too.

> ---------------------------------------------
> from Tkinter import *
> ---------------------------------------------
> *Too many noobs start out with the "from Tkinter import *" idiom,
> unknowing that they are horribly polluting their namespace. I feel
> that all (tkinter) code should follow the "import Tkinter as tk"
> policy and never use "from Tkinter import *". To push this agenda i
> propose all docs be modified so that no one should see such global
> import blasphemy again. We should at least keep all example code in
> the latter non-polluting form and frown heavily upon global imports in
> Tkinter code or any code for that matter.

Well, I just don't agree with you on this one. AFAIK, Tkinter has been
made to make the 'from Tkinter import *' idiom work without too much
namespace pollution. I've always used it, still use it today, and
never seen any problem with it.

I do agree that this might lead newbies to think it's ok for all
modules, and end up doing 'from os import *' and wonder why opening a
file with 'open' no more works. But this is the only problem I can
see.

> ---------------------------------------------
> Tkinter Constants
> ---------------------------------------------
> *The Tkconstants module needs to be removed *yesterday* because i
> think it reinforces sloppy coding styles. The main problem is with
> subtle bugs that are created when someone rebinds one or more of the
> constants, for example "W=20". At first i thought the constants were
> great but I quickly found out the shortfalls of such a Utopian
> approach . Since Tkinter allows strings to be passed-into widget
> constructors, we should remove the TkConstants immediately and force
> everyone to use strings instead...
>
>  #-- instead of this --#
>   w.pack(side=LEFT,fill=BOTH,anchor=W)
>
>  #-- do this --#
>   w.pack(side='left',fill='both',anchor='w')
>
> The few extra keystrokes are well worth the effort!

Well, again, I don't agree. I prefer having well defined constants
than having to type strings. If the values for the fill option could
be anything, well, OK. But they can't: they have to be either 'x' or
'y' or 'both'. So I prefer to have them defined in constants.

[snip comments on IDLE, which I don't use]

> ---------------------------------------------
> Tkinter Canvas
> ---------------------------------------------
> *The Tkinter Canvas widget should return (X,Y) pairs when calling
> canvas.coords(obj). The current implementation returns a flat array
> that is pretty much useless outside of canvas calls. Of course one
> could zip the coords into pairs, but it seems clumsy to call zip() on
> 2 LC's when Tkinter could, and should, do it for you.

We agree on this one, but it's a minor flaw.

> *Canvas needs a canvas.rotate() method for polygons, lines -- (easy).

All Canvas methods are actually forwarded to the underlying tcl
interpreter. So you might want to suggest that to the tcl guys.

> ---------------------------------------------
> Tkinter ComboBox -- where's Waldo?
> ---------------------------------------------
> *As much as i hate to support anything related to M$, Tkinter needs an
> M$ stlye combobox. Yes, I know Tix has combobox (*puke*), however
> using it is like pulling teeth. I have coded up an far more elegant/
> simple solution -- and yes, i know about the OptionMenu widget which
> serves a useful purpose but is NOT a good replacement for a REAL M$
> style combobox ;).

You don't seem to be aware of the new widgets in tk, which do include
a combo-box (and a lot of others BTW). See the ttk:: commands in the
tcl/tk documentation (link above). These widgets already have a Python
wrapper (see http://pypi.python.org/pypi/pyttk/0.3).

> *For instance, ComboBoxes need values that the user can select from,
> this is as universal as humans and oxygen. But sometimes you want to
> give the user a detailed set of values in the dropdown listbox and
> then insert an abbrieation of the value once selected, such as the
> case with state names...
>
>  New Mexico -> MN
>   California -> CA
>     Florida -> FL
>
> ...instead of the laborious and wasteful convention of overriding a
> method to insert this value from a mapping each time why not just pass
> a pointer to the mapping into the constructor and create a combobox
> that actually knows how to walk and chew gum!

Again, you might want to forward that to the tcl guys. And I do agree
it would be nice.

[snip code]

[snip Tix comments...]

Tix is more or less dead, since nearly all the widgets it provided
have now way better alternatives which have been included in the tcl/
tk core in the ttk package, including comboboxes and notebooks. You
might want to have a look at these.


From contact at xavierho.com  Fri Aug 28 03:55:50 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:55:50 +1000
Subject: Select column from a list
In-Reply-To: <25185508.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <25185508.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908280055g3b38bec9j1f1e812dc8bab11f@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 5:45 PM, hoffik  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I'm quite new in Python and I have one question. I have a 2D matrix of
> values stored in list (3 columns, many rows). I wonder if I can select one
> column without having to go through the list with 'for' command.


As far as I know though, you will have to loop through this if you built
your matrix with nested lists.

i.e.:

li = [[1,2],[3,4]]
result = []
for row in li:
    result.append(row[0])
# result == [1, 3]


> For example I have list called 'values'.
> When I write 'values[0]' or 'values[0][:]' I'll get the first row.
> But when I write 'values[:][0]' I won't get the first column, but the first
> row again! I can't see why.


Let's say values = [[1,2][3,4]].
values[:] returns the entire values list, from beginning to end. So you end
up what you started with.
And, of course, values[:][0] is the same as values[0].

In fact:

>>> li[:][:][:][0] is li[0]
True

It's... a very interesting behaviour, to say the least.

You might be able to get a proper matrix behaviour using NumPy, (which I
never used, so I'm just throwing it out there as a guess) or you might have
to write your own iterator for later reuse.

Cheers,
Xav
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From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Aug 28 04:03:49 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 09:03:49 +0100
Subject: Question on the "csv" library
In-Reply-To: <9f3083b4-4886-41c3-9404-d7eac300964b@l35g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
References: <055885e5-b2ee-4ca7-84d9-238034b8f21d@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>		<20090827213628.180142f6@geekmail.INVALID>
	<20090827214240.70aeb792@geekmail.INVALID>	<4587853e-5aaa-4be0-af87-d758481c6077@r42g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>	
	<9f3083b4-4886-41c3-9404-d7eac300964b@l35g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

John Machin wrote:
> On Aug 28, 6:44 am, Mark Lawrence  wrote:
>> vsoler wrote:
>>> On Aug 27, 9:42 pm, Andreas Waldenburger 
>>> 1- the csv file was generated with Excel 2007; no prompts for what the
>>> separator should be; Excel has used ";" by default, without asking
>>> anything
>> I find this difficult to believe,
> 
> Mark, there exist parallel universes the denizens of which use strange
> notation e.g. 1.234,56 instead of 1,234.56 and would you believe they
> use ';' instead of ',' as a list separator ... Excel perfidiously
> gives them what they expect rather than forcing them to comply with
> The One True Way.
I suggest a new file type csvewtlsinac i.e. comma seperated value except 
when the list seperator is not a comma.:)  Does this cover everything?

p.s. is it "separator" or "seperator", after 50+ years I still can't 
remember?

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Aug 28 04:12:34 2009
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 10:12:34 +0200
Subject: break unichr instead of fix ord?
In-Reply-To: <65e6c430-9dc4-4a90-8448-f8f587d19750@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4A95A4D1.9060008@v.loewis.de>
	
	<4A961EE1.9010103@v.loewis.de>
	<65e6c430-9dc4-4a90-8448-f8f587d19750@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a979172$0$11759$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

> The PEP says:
>      * unichr(i) for 0 <= i < 2**16 (0x10000) always returns a
>        length-one string.
> 
>      * unichr(i) for 2**16 <= i <= TOPCHAR will return a
>        length-one string on wide Python builds. On narrow
>        builds it will raise ValueError.
> and
>      * ord() is always the inverse of unichr()
> 
> which of course we know; that is the current behavior.  But
> there is no reason given for that behavior.

Sure there is, right above the list:

"Most things will behave identically in the wide and narrow worlds."

That's the reason: scripts should work the same as much as possible
in wide and narrow builds.

What you propose would break the property "unichr(i) always returns
a string of length one, if it returns anything at all".

>    1) Should surrogate pairs be disallowed on narrow builds?
> That appears to have been answered in the negative and is
> not relevant to my question.

It is, as it does lead to inconsistencies between wide and narrow
builds. OTOH, it also allows the same source code to work on both
versions, so it also preserves the uniformity in a different way.

>      * every Python Unicode character represents exactly
>        one Unicode code point (i.e. Python Unicode
>        Character = Abstract Unicode character)
> 
> I'm not sure what this means (what's an abstract unicode
> character?).

I don't think this is actually the case, but I may be confusing
Unicode terminology here - "abstract character" is a term from
the Unicode standard.

> Finally we read:
> 
>      * There is a convention in the Unicode world for
>        encoding a 32-bit code point in terms of two
>        16-bit code points. These are known as
>        "surrogate pairs". Python's codecs will adopt
>        this convention.
> 
> Is a distinction made between Python and Python
> codecs with only the latter having any knowledge of
> surrogate pairs?

No. In the end, the Unicode type represents code units,
not code points, i.e. half surrogates are individually
addressable. Codecs need to adjust to that; in particular
the UTF-8 and the UTF-32 codec in narrow builds, and the
UTF-16 codec in wide builds (which didn't exist when the
PEP was written).

> Nothing else in the PEP seems remotely relevant.

Except for the motivation, of course :-)

In addition: your original question was "why has this
been changed", to which the answer is "it hasn't".
Then, the next question is "why is it implemented that
way", to which the answer is "because the PEP says so".
Only *then* the question is "what is the rationale for
the PEP specifying things the way it does". The PEP is
relevant so that we can both agree that Python behaves
correctly (in the sense of behaving as specified).

Regards,
Martin


From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Aug 28 04:14:59 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 10:14:59 +0200
Subject: Algorithms as objects?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7fpi03F2lmnccU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Kreso schrieb:
> I am writing an application that essentially calculates set of numbers,
> say N1, N2, ..., where they can be calculated by several different 
> algorithms. (One should be able to choose the algorithm at run time.) 
> In each algorithm one starts from a set of functions, say f1, f2, ...,
> which are then transformed into some other functions g1(f1, f2, ..),
> g2(f1, f2, ...), ... , then maybe transformed once more and result is 
> obtained by evaluating final functions. 
>   I can naturally think about this as a collection of transformation
> blocks, which have functions as input and output, and which can be
> put together to get the final results. However, I am not sure
> how to program this, especially since one cannot subclass function
> type. To be clear let me give simplified example of what is needed:
> 
> f(x) has unknown shape, so one would like to try, say
> 
> f1(x) = ax - b x**2   or    f2(x) = a sin(b*x),
> 
> where a and b are variable parameters.
> 
> Then, one would like to create, with known k(x,y), function g(x) 
> in one of two ways:
>  
> g1(x) = k(x, x)*f(x)  or   g2(x) = integrate(k(x, y) * f(y), y=0..1),
> 
> and finally evaluate N=g(1) as result. In this simple example 
> there are 4 different algorithms  for f(x) -> g(x) -> N, and one
> should be able to simply choose between them, e.g. by calling
> N(g1, f2, (a,b)).
> 
> In practice algorithm is not necessary so linear,  but is
> generally tree-lika:
> 
> (a,b) -> f1(x) --->g1(x)---+
>                            |--> h(x) --> N
> (c,d) ---+--> g2(x)--------+
>          |
>  f2(x) --+
> 
> 
> It would be nice to have some class of function-objects,
> that f1(x), .., g1(x), ... could be members/instances of so that common
> operations on these functions could be possible (checking
> that they satisfy some necessary properties, plotting them, ...),
> and then second "class" of transformations/methods operating on
> these objects.
> I seem to be confused by the fact that I would like to somehow treat
> algorithms as objects (so that one can experiment with different
> algorithm systems) but I don't have clear picture how to do it.
> I am just brainstorming for ideas. Any advice is welcome.
> 

Sound like simple function combinators to me. Like this:

import inspect


def combine(f, g):
     if len(inspect.getargspec(g)[0]) > 1:
         def h(*args):
             return g(*f(*args))
         return h
     else:
         def h(*args):
             return g(f(*args))
         return h


def a(x):
     return 10 + x

def b(x):
     return x ** 2



print combine(a, b)(20)


def c(x):
     return x, x * 2


def d(x, y):
     return x + y


print combine(c, d)(10)

But to be honest - I don't think you win much with this whole thing. 
Spelling out the function-calls the way they are made is in the end as 
efficient and clear as it can get. And for *real* algorithms, you need 
non-strict constructs, control-structures and the like, and in the end 
of the day, you create a programming language on top of a programming 
language.

Diez


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Fri Aug 28 04:18:01 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 10:18:01 +0200
Subject: [OT] How do I reply to a thread by sending a message to
	python-list@python.org
In-Reply-To: 
References: <20090827073102.293C91DF2@ctb-mesg8.saix.net>
	 
Message-ID: <200908281018.01750.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Thursday 27 August 2009 22:57:44  Terry Reedy wrote:

> > Nope. I got a duplicate sent to my mailbox, which I hate.
>
> In particular, because there is no indication that it is an exact
> duplicate of what I will also find on the list itself. Please use reply
> instead of reply-all.

If I do that, then the mail would go just to you, and not to the list at all, 
which is not what I suspect you want, in view of what you have just said.

I have to do a "reply all", followed by deletion of the author, and sometimes 
addition of the list as a "to" too.   Its a mess, and if I muck it up, the 
author gets a copy in his email, if he has not fudged his "reply to"

It would really be nice if the "reply" would go to the list, but for the 
digest versions, at least, it does not.

And different mail clients do not seem to make a difference.

- Hendrik



From contact at xavierho.com  Fri Aug 28 04:31:59 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 18:31:59 +1000
Subject: [OT] How do I reply to a thread by sending a message to 
	python-list@python.org
In-Reply-To: <200908281018.01750.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
References: <20090827073102.293C91DF2@ctb-mesg8.saix.net>
	 
	<200908281018.01750.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908280131p1599de21i62add26fc4e96ab4@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 6:18 PM, Hendrik van Rooyen  wrote:

> It would really be nice if the "reply" would go to the list, but for the
> digest versions, at least, it does not.


I'm on a few other lists. The Python ones are the only ones that I have to
manually change.

The Nuke-user mailing list automatically changes the To: to the correct
address, and I *think* they also use mail-man. The DLF list I mentioned
before also doesn't have this problem.

When will this be fixed? It'll take someone like 5 minutes to do a setting .
. .

-Just my rambling again
Xav
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From no.i.dont at want.mail.from.spammers.com  Fri Aug 28 04:37:15 2009
From: no.i.dont at want.mail.from.spammers.com (Fencer)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 10:37:15 +0200
Subject: Sending email
Message-ID: <7fpj9tF2clhemU1@mid.individual.net>

Hello, I'm using Python version 2.6.2 and I discovered it has built-in 
libraries for sending email (imports smtplib and email). On the web I 
discovered how to send mail through smtp.gmail.com:

mail_server = smtplib.SMTP()

mail_server.connect('smtp.gmail.com')
mail_server.ehlo()
mail_server.starttls()
mail_server.ehlo()
mail_server.login('username', 'password')

msg = MIMEText('Some message text')
msg['Subject'] = 'Some subject'
msg['From'] = 'Mr Underhill'
msg['To'] = 'someemailaddress'

me = 'myemailaddress'
mail_server.sendmail(me, ['someemailaddress'], msg.as_string())

That seems to work just fine but for the messages I will be sending I 
don't want to use my private GMail account.
We have an SMTP server at work, and I checked its settings in the 
Thunderbird mail client and it's using SSL over port 465, so a bit 
different from how GMail's SMTP server is configured in Thunderbird.

I altered my code slightly to account for this:
mail_server = smtplib.SMTP_SSL()
mail_server.connect('mysmtpserver.at.work', 465)

Everything I left untouched. However, it doesn't work:
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "C:\Users\fencer\workspace\Send Email\src\send_email.py", line 
16, in 
     mail_server.ehlo()
   File "C:\Python26\lib\smtplib.py", line 382, in ehlo
     self.putcmd(self.ehlo_msg, name or self.local_hostname)
   File "C:\Python26\lib\smtplib.py", line 318, in putcmd
     self.send(str)
   File "C:\Python26\lib\smtplib.py", line 310, in send
     raise SMTPServerDisconnected('please run connect() first')
smtplib.SMTPServerDisconnected: please run connect() first

As you can see, I'm on Windows Vista.

What do I need to change in my code to fix this problem? Thunderbird 
manages to do it! :) Ideally, I would like send an email that the 
recipient can't reply to, but if doesn't work, it's fine too. I want to 
use this to send automated emails to students with account information 
for a course.

- Fencer


From manu3d at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 04:40:28 2009
From: manu3d at gmail.com (Emanuele D'Arrigo)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 01:40:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Does Class implements Interface?
References: <800d9226-6bbc-447e-a171-83777a9634b8@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<3e18a803-4445-4dcf-8d8f-7661fd46ab93@y4g2000prf.googlegroups.com> 
	 
	
Message-ID: <55a99698-49ae-4af9-a254-d4e1a429b3d5@k30g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>

Jonathan, Stephen and Max, thank you all for the tips and tricks. Much
appreciated.

Manu


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Fri Aug 28 04:41:51 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 10:41:51 +0200
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 		
	
	<4a967b2f$0$19301$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	
Message-ID: <4a979838$0$13005$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

kj a ?crit :
> In <4a967b2f$0$19301$426a74cc at news.free.fr> Bruno Desthuilliers  writes:
> 
>> The only thing one is entitled to expect when learning a new language is 
>> that the language's implementation follows the language specs.
> 
> In fact, the official docs, when they discuss scopes, are off to
> a bad start:
> 
>   Names refer to objects. Names are introduced by name binding
>   operations. Each occurrence of a name in the program text refers
>   to the binding of that name established in the innermost function
>   block containing the use.
> 
> The first paragraph implies that binding can only occur within
> functions, which is either incorrect, or presupposes a definition
> of "function" that is not what most programmers would recognize.

Indeed, and you're right to point it. I strongly suggest you submit a 
ticket to the doc maintainers.

> In general, I found the docs very unclear on the subject of scoping.
> PEP 227 is much better, but I wouldn't have thought of it as "the
> specs".

Well, here again, it sure would help to make clear that peps (and 
release specific "what's new") *are* part of the doc. But for sure, what 
used to be a simple and clear reference is now a bit of a mess, despite 
the hard work of the doc team. Side-effect of the rapid growth of the 
language I guess...




From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Fri Aug 28 04:48:03 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 10:48:03 +0200
Subject: Algorithms as objects?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4a9799ac$0$8042$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Kreso a ?crit :
> I am writing an application that essentially calculates set of numbers,
> say N1, N2, ..., where they can be calculated by several different 
> algorithms. (One should be able to choose the algorithm at run time.) 
> In each algorithm one starts from a set of functions, say f1, f2, ...,
> which are then transformed into some other functions g1(f1, f2, ..),
> g2(f1, f2, ...), ... , then maybe transformed once more and result is 
> obtained by evaluating final functions. 
>   I can naturally think about this as a collection of transformation
> blocks, which have functions as input and output, and which can be
> put together to get the final results. However, I am not sure
> how to program this, especially since one cannot subclass function
> type.

Nope, but you can write your own callable types:


class functor(object):
     def __call__(self):
         print "%s called" % self

(snip)

> I seem to be confused by the fact that I would like to somehow treat
> algorithms as objects

Strategy pattern anyone ?


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Fri Aug 28 04:51:43 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 10:51:43 +0200
Subject: variables of the class are not available as default values?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <4a979a88$0$8042$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Chris Rebert a ?crit :
(snip)

> Default values are only evaluated once, when the class is defined,



s/class/function/

The function objects (defined in a class statement body...) are created 
before the class object itself.



> thus "self" is not defined at that point since the class is still
> being defined when the method definition is executed and thus there
> can be no instances yet anyway.


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Fri Aug 28 04:52:01 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 10:52:01 +0200
Subject: Protecting against callbacks queuing up?
In-Reply-To: <4a970bd7$0$333$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
References: <4a91db65$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
	
	<4a970bd7$0$333$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
Message-ID: <200908281052.01436.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Friday 28 August 2009 00:42:16 Esben von Buchwald wrote:

> OK, now things starts to make sense.
>
> You tell me to do something like this?
>
>
>      def doCallback(self):
>          if self.process_busy==False:
>              self.process_busy=True
>              self.at.after(0.01,self.data_callback)

This bit is allmost right - try to make the time a millisecond or less, if you 
can. (however that is specified - I do not know) The spelling is probably:

        self.at.after(1,self.data_callback, (other_stuff))

where "other stuff" comes from the event and is what is needed to do the 
calculation. - the event should be an argument to the doCallback thinghy too, 
somehow, so that you can get at what you need to do the calculation.

>      def doneCallback(self):
>              self.process_busy=False
>
you do not need this separate.
just do this:

def data_callback(self,other_stuff):
    calculate what must be calculated
    self.process_busy=False

>
> And the after command will cause python to spawn a new thread, which
> runs self.data_callback, which measn that the doCallback will return
> immediately, so the next callback from accelerometer can be processed?

Yes and skipped if the calculation is not done yet.  Obviously you will have 
to do whatever it takes to make sure the events keep coming (if anything), so 
it may end up a little more complex, but you basically have the idea now.

The thing that happens as a result of the after is not really a new thread, it 
is a piece of the main loop that gets diverted for a while to do the 
calculation.

if, in that routine, you go:

while True:
    pass

You will completely freeze up the whole bang shoot..

>
> And when the self.data_callback() finishes, i'd make it call the
> doneCallback() to release my busy flag, right?

see above - just clear it from the called routine.

>
> I'm gonna try this tomorrow :)

Good luck!

- Hendrik


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Aug 28 04:54:30 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 18:54:30 +1000
Subject: [OT] How do I reply to a thread by sending a message to
	python-list@python.org
References: <20090827073102.293C91DF2@ctb-mesg8.saix.net>
	 
	
Message-ID: <87k50ob9o9.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Hendrik van Rooyen  writes:

> If I [use the ?reply to author? command], then the mail would go just
> to you, and not to the list at all, which is not what I suspect you
> want, in view of what you have just said.

Right. The common ?reply? command in most mail clients means ?reply to
author?, and as you say, it requests to compose a reply addressed to the
author.

> It would really be nice if the "reply" would go to the list, but for
> the digest versions, at least, it does not.

No, it really wouldn't; because if you're asking to compose a message
address to the *author*, and it instead gets addressed to the whole
*list*, that's a recipe for disastrous communication errors.

Instead, it would be nice if people had a ?reply to list? command, and
used that when they choose to send a message to the list.

> And different mail clients do not seem to make a difference.

Fortunately, the messages that come from the list enable any mail client
to know the correct address for ?reply to list?. It only remains to
choose a mail client that knows how to use it.

-- 
 \       ?? one of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was |
  `\        that, lacking zero, they had no way to indicate successful |
_o__)                  termination of their C programs.? ?Robert Firth |
Ben Finney


From contact at xavierho.com  Fri Aug 28 05:04:57 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 19:04:57 +1000
Subject: [OT] How do I reply to a thread by sending a message to 
	python-list@python.org
In-Reply-To: <87k50ob9o9.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <20090827073102.293C91DF2@ctb-mesg8.saix.net>
	 
	
	<87k50ob9o9.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908280204k73a41cc0j63717c8ca258ff33@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 6:54 PM, Ben Finney

> wrote:

> Fortunately, the messages that come from the list enable any mail client
> to know the correct address for ?reply to list?. It only remains to
> choose a mail client that knows how to use it.


Would you be so kind and share with us for such a client that knows how to
use the mailing list attribute?

Thanks!
-Xav
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From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Fri Aug 28 05:06:31 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 11:06:31 +0200
Subject: Select column from a list
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4a979e00$0$3608$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

hoffik a ?crit :
> Hello,
> 
> I'm quite new in Python and I have one question. I have a 2D matrix of
> values stored in list (3 columns, many rows).  I wonder if I can select one
> column without having to go through the list with 'for' command.

Lists don't have columns. What you have is a list of lists (and FWIW, in 
your case, it should be a list of tuples since obviously these are 
fixed-size items where position is meaningfull).

> For example I have list called 'values'.
> When I write 'values[0]' or 'values[0][:]' I'll get the first row.

Not exactly. In the first case, you have a reference to values[0], in 
the second case a _copy_ of values[0]

 >>> alist = [[1, 2, 3], [4, 5, 6]]
 >>> ref = alist[0]
 >>> copy = alist[0][:]
 >>> ref is alist[0]
True
 >>> copy is alist[0]
False
 >>> copy[0] = 999
 >>> copy
[999, 2, 3]
 >>> alist
[[1, 2, 3], [4, 5, 6]]
 >>> ref
[1, 2, 3]
 >>> ref[0] = 888
 >>> alist
[[888, 2, 3], [4, 5, 6]]
 >>>


> But when I write 'values[:][0]' I won't get the first column, but the first
> row again! I can't see why.


alist[:] returns a copy the whole list. As I said, lists don't have 
"columns".

So yes, given your data structure, you do have to iterate over the outer 
list to collect items at specific positions of the inner lists (or tuples).

Depending on the size of your dataset, the frequency of such operation 
in your code, and required perfs, you can either

* just do the simplest thing, ie:

   first_column_items = [row[0] for row in values]

* try to find a more suited datastructure

* of just use the most appropriate tool for set operations, which is a 
relational database. FWIW, sqlite doesn't require any server setup, and 
can even be used with in-memory databases if you don't need persistance.

HTH


From vlastimil.brom at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 05:28:38 2009
From: vlastimil.brom at gmail.com (Vlastimil Brom)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 11:28:38 +0200
Subject: Select column from a list
In-Reply-To: <25185508.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <25185508.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <9fdb569a0908280228g59038ba1u30d6d5ef9d6a80ca@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/28 hoffik :
>
> Hello,
>
> I'm quite new in Python and I have one question. I have a 2D matrix of
> values stored in list (3 columns, many rows). I wonder if I can select one
> column without having to go through the list with 'for' command.
> ...

I guess, it won't be possible without an explicit or implicit loop;
you may try:

>>> from operator import itemgetter
>>> nested_list = [[1, 2, 3], [10, 20, 30], [100, 200, 300]]
>>> map(itemgetter(1), nested_list)
[2, 20, 200]
>>>

vbr


From anthra.norell at bluewin.ch  Fri Aug 28 05:59:17 2009
From: anthra.norell at bluewin.ch (Anthra Norell)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 11:59:17 +0200
Subject: Select column from a list
In-Reply-To: <9fdb569a0908280228g59038ba1u30d6d5ef9d6a80ca@mail.gmail.com>
References: <25185508.post@talk.nabble.com>
	<9fdb569a0908280228g59038ba1u30d6d5ef9d6a80ca@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A97AA75.3040101@bluewin.ch>

Vlastimil Brom wrote:
> 2009/8/28 hoffik :
>   
>> Hello,
>>
>> I'm quite new in Python and I have one question. I have a 2D matrix of
>> values stored in list (3 columns, many rows). I wonder if I can select one
>> column without having to go through the list with 'for' command.
>> ...
>>     
>
> I guess, it won't be possible without an explicit or implicit loop;
> you may try:
>
>   
>>>> from operator import itemgetter
>>>> nested_list = [[1, 2, 3], [10, 20, 30], [100, 200, 300]]
>>>> map(itemgetter(1), nested_list)
>>>>         
> [2, 20, 200]
>   
>
> vbr
>   
How about rotating the list with zip?
 >>> zip (*nested_list)[1]
(2, 20, 200)

Frederic



From marduk at letterboxes.org  Fri Aug 28 06:19:18 2009
From: marduk at letterboxes.org (Albert Hopkins)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 06:19:18 -0400
Subject: [OT] How do I reply to a thread by sending a message to 
	python-list@python.org
In-Reply-To: <2d56febf0908280204k73a41cc0j63717c8ca258ff33@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090827073102.293C91DF2@ctb-mesg8.saix.net>
	 
	
	<87k50ob9o9.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<2d56febf0908280204k73a41cc0j63717c8ca258ff33@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1251454758.12823.1.camel@blackwidow.nbk>

On Fri, 2009-08-28 at 19:04 +1000, Xavier Ho wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 6:54 PM, Ben Finney  +python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
>         Fortunately, the messages that come from the list enable any
>         mail client
>         to know the correct address for ?reply to list?. It only
>         remains to
>         choose a mail client that knows how to use it.
> 
> Would you be so kind and share with us for such a client that knows
> how to use the mailing list attribute?

Evolution at least is mailing-list aware.  I usually "Reply to
List" (CTRL-L) and fugetaboutit. 



From olivier.darge at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 06:53:03 2009
From: olivier.darge at gmail.com (OdarR)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 03:53:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: why python got less developers ?
References: 
	
Message-ID: <2aab5093-5381-42e3-a3dd-1d2e88e36004@32g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On 28 ao?t, 02:47, MRAB  wrote:
> Deep_Feelings wrote:
> > python got relatively fewer numbers of developers than other high
> > level languages like .NET , java .. etc ?why ?
>
> Fewer needed?

excellent answer. LOL.

Olivier


From usenot at geekmail.INVALID  Fri Aug 28 07:13:22 2009
From: usenot at geekmail.INVALID (Andreas Waldenburger)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:13:22 +0200
Subject: Question on the "csv" library
References: <055885e5-b2ee-4ca7-84d9-238034b8f21d@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20090827213628.180142f6@geekmail.INVALID>
	<20090827214240.70aeb792@geekmail.INVALID>
	<4587853e-5aaa-4be0-af87-d758481c6077@r42g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	
	<9f3083b4-4886-41c3-9404-d7eac300964b@l35g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <20090828131322.6173ade1@geekmail.INVALID>

On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 09:03:49 +0100 Mark Lawrence
 wrote:

> p.s. is it "separator" or "seperator", after 50+ years I still can't 
> remember?

The former. It's cognate to English "part" if that helps any.

/W

-- 
INVALID? DE!



From find.mig at paa.google  Fri Aug 28 07:15:50 2009
From: find.mig at paa.google (Esben von Buchwald)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:15:50 +0200
Subject: Protecting against callbacks queuing up?
In-Reply-To: <4a970bd7$0$333$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
References: <4a91db65$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>		<4a9595ca$0$300$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
	
	<4a970bd7$0$333$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
Message-ID: <4a97bc7e$0$339$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>

It seems to solve the problem.

What I did:

     def contextDataHandler(self):
         self.contextdata.process_busy=True
         self.services.findServices()
         self.drawDisplay()
         self.contextdata.process_busy=False

     def doCallback(self):
         self.at.cancel()
         if self.process_busy==False:
             self.at.after(0.01,self.data_callback)


The app works awesomely stable now

data_callback refers to contextDataHandler in parent class

Thanks guys, good job


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Fri Aug 28 07:40:28 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:40:28 +0200
Subject: Python on the Web
In-Reply-To: <1b7a2f45-dd10-4722-a9d8-8c6d2464e4d6@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<4a94ef42$0$27774$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	
	<4a96884b$0$22855$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<1b7a2f45-dd10-4722-a9d8-8c6d2464e4d6@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a97c215$0$16809$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Phil a ?crit :
>  When
> I gave that arbitrary percentage, I was basing it off of the
> information I had seen with regards to launching applications built
> with existing frameworks using lighttpd. I do realize I was missing a
> lot of information by looking up something that specific.

Indeed !-)

> I also
> understand that there are enough frameworks. That still won't change
> my mind. I do not want to write a web application, otherwise I would
> use an existing framework as suggested. I just wanted to experiment
> and see what kind of framework I could develop with some ideas I had
> in mind.

I wrote quite a couple web and non web frameworks myself - all ending up 
  in the trash can FWIW, but it certainly has been a very educative 
experience by itself.

>  I just really like some of the new features of
> Python 3, and most importantly, unicode compliance is just that much
> straight forward in my opinion.

If you're only writing your framework for learning purposes, you could 
as well go with Python 3, and implement everything from the ground up 
(not a trivial task FWIW).


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Fri Aug 28 07:45:13 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:45:13 +0200
Subject: Learning Python advanced features
In-Reply-To: <4a977b20$0$740$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4a967864$0$15193$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<4a967bd6$0$19301$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<4a977b20$0$740$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4a97c331$0$16809$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

jvpic a ?crit :
> Bruno Desthuilliers a ?crit :
>> jvpic a ?crit :
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Learning Python, I understand the mechanism of : closure, __new__, 
>>> descriptors, decorators and __metaclass__, but I interrogate myself 
>>> on the interest of those technics ?
>>>
>>> May somebody explain me the interest ?
>>
>> Didn't like my answers on f.c.l.py ?-)
> Si, mais je voulais savoir ce qu'on en pense sur un autre forum !
> Merci encore...

Hum... I guess the smiley was not big enough !-)



From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Fri Aug 28 07:48:07 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:48:07 +0200
Subject: Learning Python advanced features
In-Reply-To: <6b1a2aae-fd3d-40a8-9350-89a8661a6d4a@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
References: <4a967864$0$15193$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<6b1a2aae-fd3d-40a8-9350-89a8661a6d4a@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a97c3df$0$16809$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Jonathan Gardner a ?crit :
> On Aug 27, 5:13 am, jvpic  wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Learning Python, I understand the mechanism of : closure, __new__,
>> descriptors, decorators and __metaclass__, but I interrogate myself on
>> the interest of those technics ?
>>
>> May somebody explain me the interest ?
>>
> 
> I assume you are asking, "Why do these features exist? What makes them
> useful? When would I use them?"
> 
> For that, you should re-read the documentation and discussion
> surrounding them. The short answer is that the above makes your job,
> as a programmer easier. It's easier because you have to write less
> code, read less code, and your code has fewer bugs.

I think the OP is mostly looking for practical use cases. FWIW, when I 
discovered Python's "lambda" (I only knew a couple low-level imperative 
languages by that time), I really wondered what an anonymous function 
could be used for !-)



From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Fri Aug 28 07:56:08 2009
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 12:56:08 +0100
Subject: why python got less developers ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<71fc40ff-cf0e-4b15-b60c-dd42deaac49d@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Esam Qanadeely wrote:
> who cares if a language is compiled or interpreted as long as it runs
> and perform the function.
> 
> second thing is : even if java is faster than python , unless you are
> making performance critical operations : who cares? computers are
> getting faster all the time and languages like python or ruby are fast
> enough.
> 
> any comment ?
I like to second that, if performance is *that* important you wouldn't 
go with Java either, you be better of with C or even assembly. Doesn't 
mean you should write everything in C, just the parts that are 
performance critical, preferably with a 'slow' fall back if there isn't 
an optimized routine available yet for a specific platform.

-- 
MPH
http://blog.dcuktec.com
'If consumed, best digested with added seasoning to own preference.'


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Fri Aug 28 08:07:05 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 14:07:05 +0200
Subject: Object's nesting scope
In-Reply-To: <1ea2a98f-4035-4ec6-b5a9-06b21dd6f584@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<7fkqodF2llnghU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<1ea2a98f-4035-4ec6-b5a9-06b21dd6f584@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a97c851$0$307$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

zaur a ?crit :
> On 26 ???, 17:13, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
>> Whom am we to judge? Sure if you propose this, you have some usecases in
>> mind - how about you present these
> 
> Ok. Here is a use case: object initialization.
> 
> For example,
> 
> person = Person():
>   name = "john"
>   age = 30
>   address = Address():
>      street = "Green Street"
>      no = 12
> 
> vs.
> 
> person = Person()
> person.name = "john"
> person.age = 30
> address = person.address = Address()
> address.street = "Green Street"
> address.no = 12

Err... Looks like you really should read the FineManual(tm) - 
specifically, the parts on the __init__ method.

class Person(object):
    def __init__(self, name, age, address):
        self.name = name
        self.age = age
        self.address = address

class Address(object):
    def __init__(self, street, no):
        self.no = no
        self.street = street


person = Person(
    name="john",
    age=30,
    address = Address(
        street="Green Street",
        no=12
    )
)



From dukeofperl at ml1.net  Fri Aug 28 08:34:08 2009
From: dukeofperl at ml1.net (Duke Normandin)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 06:34:08 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Transforming a str to an operator
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c20908272132p737fe070w5a3c7b0a4970a2c9@mail.gmail.com>
References: 
	<7a9c25c20908272132p737fe070w5a3c7b0a4970a2c9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009, Stephen Hansen wrote:

> >
> > num1 = raw_input('Enter the first number: ')
> > num2 = raw_input('Enter the second number: ')
> > op = raw_input('Select one of the following [+-*/]: ')
> > print 'The answer is: ', int(num1), eval(op), int(num2)
> >                                    ^^^^^^^^
> >
> > How do I convert the contents of "op" from a string to an actual
> > arithmetic operator? eval() does not seem to be the answer. TIA!
> >
>
> You could eval(num1+op+num2), but it'd be safer to do:
>
> import operator
> operators = {"+": operator.add, "-": operator.sub, "*": operator.mul, "/":
> operator.div}
> fn = operators[op]
> print "The answer is:", fn(int(num1), int(num2))
>
> Its best to avoid eval when possible :)
>
> --S
>

In *any* language "eval" is dangerous, so your second example would
also be my choice. Thanks for the clue.

BTW, I hunted hi-n-lo for something that would address my question at
http://docs.python.org. I obviously didn't have much luck. Something
about those docs that is confusing....
-- 
duke


From bbxx789_05ss at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 28 08:40:46 2009
From: bbxx789_05ss at yahoo.com (7stud)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 05:40:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Sending email
References: <7fpj9tF2clhemU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <2b3621fd-53fc-4f20-a048-3608894e52af@o9g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 28, 2:37?am, Fencer 
wrote:
> Hello, I'm using Python version 2.6.2 and I discovered it has built-in
> libraries for sending email (imports smtplib and email). On the web I
> discovered how to send mail through smtp.gmail.com:
>
> mail_server = smtplib.SMTP()
>
> mail_server.connect('smtp.gmail.com')
> mail_server.ehlo()
> mail_server.starttls()
> mail_server.ehlo()
> mail_server.login('username', 'password')
>
> msg = MIMEText('Some message text')
> msg['Subject'] = 'Some subject'
> msg['From'] = 'Mr Underhill'
> msg['To'] = 'someemailaddress'
>
> me = 'myemailaddress'
> mail_server.sendmail(me, ['someemailaddress'], msg.as_string())
>
> That seems to work just fine but for the messages I will be sending I
> don't want to use my private GMail account.
> We have an SMTP server at work, and I checked its settings in the
> Thunderbird mail client and it's using SSL over port 465, so a bit
> different from how GMail's SMTP server is configured in Thunderbird.
>
> I altered my code slightly to account for this:
> mail_server = smtplib.SMTP_SSL()
> mail_server.connect('mysmtpserver.at.work', 465)
>
> Everything I left untouched. However, it doesn't work:
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? ?File "C:\Users\fencer\workspace\Send Email\src\send_email.py", line
> 16, in 
> ? ? ?mail_server.ehlo()
> ? ?File "C:\Python26\lib\smtplib.py", line 382, in ehlo
> ? ? ?self.putcmd(self.ehlo_msg, name or self.local_hostname)
> ? ?File "C:\Python26\lib\smtplib.py", line 318, in putcmd
> ? ? ?self.send(str)
> ? ?File "C:\Python26\lib\smtplib.py", line 310, in send
> ? ? ?raise SMTPServerDisconnected('please run connect() first')
> smtplib.SMTPServerDisconnected: please run connect() first
>
> As you can see, I'm on Windows Vista.
>
> What do I need to change in my code to fix this problem? Thunderbird
> manages to do it! :) Ideally, I would like send an email that the
> recipient can't reply to, but if doesn't work, it's fine too. I want to
> use this to send automated emails to students with account information
> for a course.
>
> - Fencer

The docs say:

---
class smtplib.SMTP_SSL([host[, port[, local_hostname[, keyfile[,
certfile[, timeout]]]]]])

A SMTP_SSL instance behaves exactly the same as instances of SMTP.
SMTP_SSL should be used for situations where SSL is required from the
beginning of the connection and using starttls() is not appropriate.
---

So try getting ride of these two lines:

> mail_server.starttls()
> mail_server.ehlo()

There's also some info on google about a bug in this regard, so check
to see when you installed python 2.6.2.


From zvezdan at zope.com  Fri Aug 28 09:12:29 2009
From: zvezdan at zope.com (Zvezdan Petkovic)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 09:12:29 -0400
Subject: Does Class implements Interface?
In-Reply-To: <800d9226-6bbc-447e-a171-83777a9634b8@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <800d9226-6bbc-447e-a171-83777a9634b8@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 27, 2009, at 9:16 AM, Emanuele D'Arrigo wrote:

> Are there resources such as tools, recipes, documents or strategies
> that could help me deal with these issues? I've already looked into
> the ABC module and the zope.interface. I'm just fishing for more
> things to look at.

You say above that you looked at zope.interface.
Did you look at zope.interface.verify?
Specifically, verify.txt doctests state that:

	"An object provides an interface if

	- either its class declares that it implements the interfaces,
	  or the object declares that it directly provides the interface

	- the object defines all the methods required by the interface

	- all the methods have the correct signature

	- the object defines all non-method attributes required by the
	  interface"

zope.interface.verify.verifyObject(I, obj) will check all of the above.
Similarly, zope.interface.verify.verifyClass(I, C) will check the class.
It is a good practice to call these functions in the regression tests.

If this is not what you are looking for, sorry for the noise.

	Zvezdan



From piet at cs.uu.nl  Fri Aug 28 09:23:47 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:23:47 +0200
Subject: Select column from a list
References: 
Message-ID: 

>>>>> hoffik  (h) wrote:

>h> Hello,

>h> I'm quite new in Python and I have one question. I have a 2D matrix of
>h> values stored in list (3 columns, many rows). I wonder if I can select one
>h> column without having to go through the list with 'for' command.

>h> For example I have list called 'values'.
>h> When I write 'values[0]' or 'values[0][:]' I'll get the first row.
>h> But when I write 'values[:][0]' I won't get the first column, but the first
>h> row again! I can't see why.

If you work with matrices, numpy may be interesting for you. It does
have the required functionality: M[:,0] will give you the first column.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From lucafbb at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 09:33:39 2009
From: lucafbb at gmail.com (Luca)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:33:39 +0200
Subject: Read a content file from a P7M
In-Reply-To: <20090320141244.GA31004@galliera.it>
References: <27308d500903110905j336da086ya39300c876aa95a5@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20090320141244.GA31004@galliera.it>
Message-ID: <27308d500908280633u310ed4ffu8fe753d69a575265@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Emanuele Rocca wrote:
> On 11/03/09 - 05:05, Luca wrote:
>> There is standard or sugested way in python to read the content of a P7M file?
>>
>> I don't need no feature like verify sign, or sign using a certificate.
>> I only need to extract the content file of the p7m (a doc, a pdf, ...)
>
> For PDF files you can just remove the P7M content before %PDF and after
> %%EOF.
>
> The following snippet converts /tmp/test.p7m into PDF, saving the
> resulting document into /tmp/test.pdf:
>
> import re
> from gzip import GzipFile
>
> contents = GzipFile('/tmp/test.p7m').read()
>
> contents_re = re.compile('%PDF-.*%%EOF', re.MULTILINE | re.DOTALL)
> contents = contents_re.search(contents).group()
>
> open('/tmp/test.pdf', 'w').write(contents)
>

After all those days... only to say THANKS!
The example of the PDF file is perfect, I only needed to not execute
the GzipFile call (it seems that our PDF are not GZipped).

Unluckily now seems that we need the same feature for non-pdf files...

-- 
-- luca


From hv at tbz-pariv.de  Fri Aug 28 09:42:36 2009
From: hv at tbz-pariv.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:42:36 +0200
Subject: PyGTK problems after Linux update...
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7fq56dF2m6qlbU1@mid.individual.net>

Looks like your pygtk package does not fit to the installed python package.


>         from glib._glib import *
>     ImportError: /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/gtk-2.0/glib/_glib.so: 
> undefined symbol: PyUnicodeUCS4_DecodeUTF8

-- 
Thomas Guettler, http://www.thomas-guettler.de/
E-Mail: guettli (*) thomas-guettler + de


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Aug 28 09:43:05 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 28 Aug 2009 13:43:05 GMT
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
References: 
	
	<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com>
	
	
	
	
	<02a31f91$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<44bcb727-0885-4d4f-9c11-ca60a39b0d91@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<02a3e1e2$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<02a53d89$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<8d25833e-8008-42e9-ad24-10ddd4f6cbef@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<02a5d290$0$15633$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<02a5ed07$0$15633$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<9f392780-cb72-4bdb-a571-b1c218f3cbf8@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <00216264$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 10:49:27 -0700, Mensanator wrote:

> Fine. I'm over it. Point is, I HAVE encountered plenty of people who
> DON'T properly understand it, Marilyn Vos Savant, for example. 

I'm curious -- please explain. Links please?


> You can't
> blame me for thinking you don't understand it either when unary is
> brought up in a discussion of how to interpret insignificant leading
> 0's.

Er, when I show an example of what I'm calling unary, and then later on 
explain in detail and link to a detailed discussion of it, who exactly 
should I blame for your confusion?



-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Aug 28 09:51:08 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 28 Aug 2009 13:51:08 GMT
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: 
	<87d46ok948.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
	<02a0b085$0$30337$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <00216447$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 10:31:04 -0700, Ethan Furman wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> A mistake is still a mistake even if it shared with others.
>> 
>> Treating its with a lead zero as octal was a design error when it was
>> first thought up
> 
> [snippage]
> 
> I have to disagree with you on this one.  The computing world was vastly
> different when that design decision was made.  Space was at a premium,
> programmers were not touch-typists, every character had to count, and
> why in the world would somebody who had to use papertape or punch cards
> add a lead zero without a *real* good reason?  I submit that that real
> good reason was to specify an octal literal, and not a decimal literal.

Octal with a leading 0 comes from B, which influenced C, which influenced 
many languages. B was designed in 1969, the same year as Pascal, not the 
1950s -- six years *after* Basic, ten years after Lisp and Cobol, eleven 
years after Algol, and thirteen years after Fortran. *None* of these 
other languages use a leading 0 for Octal, and none of them are 
particularly terse.

Obviously I can't speak for Ken Thompson's motivation in creating this 
feature, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't to save typing or space on 
punchcards. Even in 1969, hex was more common than octal, and yet hex 
values are written with 0x. My guess is that he wanted all numbers to 
start with a digit, to simplify parsing, and beyond that, it was just his 
programming style -- why call the copy command `copy` when you could call 
it `cp`? (Thompson was the co-inventor of Unix.)


-- 
Steven


From bernhard.voigt at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 09:53:49 2009
From: bernhard.voigt at gmail.com (Bernhard Voigt)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 06:53:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Select column from a list
References: <25185508.post@talk.nabble.com>
	<9fdb569a0908280228g59038ba1u30d6d5ef9d6a80ca@mail.gmail.com> 
	
Message-ID: <708f2333-43d7-4091-8f73-67ef5ef4752a@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>


> >> I'm quite new in Python and I have one question. I have a 2D matrix of
> >> values stored in list (3 columns, many rows). I wonder if I can select one
> >> column without having to go through the list with 'for' command.

In case you want to due numerical calculations take a look at numpy it
has an extended slicing notation to select columns directly. See
http://www.scipy.org

# create 10x10 numpy array filled with 1
data = numpy.ones((10,10))
column = data[:,0]

Best wishes! Bernhard


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Fri Aug 28 09:55:55 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 06:55:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: why python got less developers ?
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 28 Aug, 02:34, Deep_Feelings  wrote:
> python got relatively fewer numbers of developers than other high
> level languages like .NET , java .. etc ?why ?

Because we are better, so fewer are needed.



From jakecjacobson at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 09:57:59 2009
From: jakecjacobson at gmail.com (jakecjacobson)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 06:57:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to unencode a string
References: <55f8f373-8e0a-4ca5-8deb-53c02e4d1137@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <31799652-b530-4877-8e2d-c5e7e3477ff0@d38g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 27, 6:51?pm, Piet van Oostrum  wrote:
> >>>>> jakecjacobson  (j) wrote:
> >j> This seems like a real simple newbie question but how can a person
> >j> unencode a string? ?In Perl I use something like: "$part=~ s/\%([A-Fa-
> >j> f0-9]{2})/pack('C', hex($1))/seg;"
> >j> If I have a string like Word1%20Word2%20Word3 I want to get Word1
> >j> Word2 Word3. ?
>
> urllib.unquote(string)
>
> >j> Would also like to handle special characters like '",(){}
> >j> [] etc/
>
> What would you like to do with them? Or do you mean to replace %27 by ' etc?
> --
> Piet van Oostrum 
> URL:http://pietvanoostrum.com[PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
> Private email: p... at vanoostrum.org

Yes, take '%27' and replace with ', etc.


From hamdori at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 10:11:58 2009
From: hamdori at gmail.com (Jinha Jung)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 07:11:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: why python got less developers ?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 28, 9:55?am, sturlamolden  wrote:
> On 28 Aug, 02:34, Deep_Feelings  wrote:
>
> > python got relatively fewer numbers of developers than other high
> > level languages like .NET , java .. etc ?why ?
>
> Because we are better, so fewer are needed.

That makes sense!! :-)


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Aug 28 10:13:00 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:13:00 +0100
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: <00216447$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 	<87d46ok948.fsf@benfinney.id.au>		<02a0b085$0$30337$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	
	<00216447$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4A97E5EC.5010007@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 10:31:04 -0700, Ethan Furman wrote:
> 
>> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>> A mistake is still a mistake even if it shared with others.
>>>
>>> Treating its with a lead zero as octal was a design error when it was
>>> first thought up
>> [snippage]
>>
>> I have to disagree with you on this one.  The computing world was vastly
>> different when that design decision was made.  Space was at a premium,
>> programmers were not touch-typists, every character had to count, and
>> why in the world would somebody who had to use papertape or punch cards
>> add a lead zero without a *real* good reason?  I submit that that real
>> good reason was to specify an octal literal, and not a decimal literal.
> 
> Octal with a leading 0 comes from B, which influenced C, which influenced 
> many languages. B was designed in 1969, the same year as Pascal, not the 
> 1950s -- six years *after* Basic, ten years after Lisp and Cobol, eleven 
> years after Algol, and thirteen years after Fortran. *None* of these 
> other languages use a leading 0 for Octal, and none of them are 
> particularly terse.
> 
> Obviously I can't speak for Ken Thompson's motivation in creating this 
> feature, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't to save typing or space on 
> punchcards. Even in 1969, hex was more common than octal, and yet hex 
> values are written with 0x. My guess is that he wanted all numbers to 
> start with a digit, to simplify parsing, and beyond that, it was just his 
> programming style -- why call the copy command `copy` when you could call 
> it `cp`? (Thompson was the co-inventor of Unix.)
> 
Maybe it was because they were working on minicomputers, not mainframes,
so there was less processing power and storage available.


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Aug 28 10:14:07 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 28 Aug 2009 14:14:07 GMT
Subject: why python got less developers ?
References: 
Message-ID: <002169aa$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 17:34:17 -0700, Deep_Feelings wrote:

> python got relatively fewer numbers of developers than other high level
> languages like .NET , java .. etc  why ?

Python programmers are the elite. The elite are always fewer than the 
masses.


-- 
Steven
who is three quarters joking


From dukeofperl at ml1.net  Fri Aug 28 10:18:48 2009
From: dukeofperl at ml1.net (Duke Normandin)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 14:18:48 GMT
Subject: Transforming a str to an operator
In-Reply-To: <6ee483f7-e92c-49e0-be27-125f3389b1f2@33g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<6ee483f7-e92c-49e0-be27-125f3389b1f2@33g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009, r wrote:

> On Aug 27, 10:52?pm, Duke Normandin  wrote:
> > How do I convert the contents of "op" from a string to an actual
> > arithmetic operator? eval() does not seem to be the answer. TIA!
>
>
> Try this..
>
> >>> op = '+'
> >>> one = '1'
> >>> two = '2'
> >>> one+op+two
> '1+2'
> >>> eval(one+op+two)
> 3
>
>
> you could also use string formatting.

I see! Concatenate the strings within the "eval()" function. Of
course, it's prudent not to expose "eval" to the outside world. But
for learning purposes ....

Thanks for the input!
-- 
duke

From no.i.dont at want.mail.from.spammers.com  Fri Aug 28 10:18:57 2009
From: no.i.dont at want.mail.from.spammers.com (Fencer)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 16:18:57 +0200
Subject: Sending email
In-Reply-To: <2b3621fd-53fc-4f20-a048-3608894e52af@o9g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
References: <7fpj9tF2clhemU1@mid.individual.net>
	<2b3621fd-53fc-4f20-a048-3608894e52af@o9g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7fq7aiF2mp83gU1@mid.individual.net>

7stud wrote:
[snip]

Thanks for your reply. After consulting the sysadmins here I was able to 
get it to work.

- Fencer


From dukeofperl at ml1.net  Fri Aug 28 10:23:16 2009
From: dukeofperl at ml1.net (Duke Normandin)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 14:23:16 GMT
Subject: Transforming a str to an operator
In-Reply-To: <87skfcblo3.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: 
	<87skfcblo3.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 28 Aug 2009, Ben Finney wrote:

> Duke Normandin  writes:
>
> > Hey....
> >
> > I'm a Python noob....
> >
> > So far so good!
> >
> > I've written the following:
> >
> > num1 = raw_input('Enter the first number: ')
> > num2 = raw_input('Enter the second number: ')
> > op = raw_input('Select one of the following [+-*/]: ')
> > print 'The answer is: ', int(num1), eval(op), int(num2)
> >                                     ^^^^^^^^
> >
> > How do I convert the contents of "op" from a string to an actual
> > arithmetic operator? eval() does not seem to be the answer. TIA!
>
> In general, ?eval? on unsanitised input is not the answer.

Agreed! If I were to expose "eval" to the 'net, I would have some
input error checking and "type" checks to insure that only integers
and valid operators were being input.

>
> I would use the following approach:
>
>     import operator
>
>     op_funcs = {
>         '+': operator.add,
>         '-': operator.sub,
>         '*': operator.mul,
>         '/': operator.div,
>         }
>
>     num_1 = int(raw_input('Enter the first number: '))
>     num_2 = int(raw_input('Enter the second number: '))
>     op_prompt = (
>         "Select an operator "
>         + "[" + "".join(s for s in op_funcs.keys()) + "]"
>         + ": ")
>     op_symbol = raw_input(op_prompt)
>     op_func = op_funcs[op_symbol]
>     print 'The answer is: ', op_func(num_1, num_2)
>
> This has several advantages:
>
> * The input isn't evaluated directly as code.
>
> * The operator symbols are specified in one place, the ?op_funcs?
>   mapping; if you want to change the set of possible operators, you just
>   change it there.
>
> * If the input results in an operator that's not defined, it won't
>   attempt to perform it; instead, a simple KeyError will result when
>   trying to find the corresponding operator function.

Cool! Something useful to study...

Thanks for the input!
-- 
duke

From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Aug 28 10:30:00 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 28 Aug 2009 14:30:00 GMT
Subject: Algorithms as objects?
References: 
Message-ID: <00216d63$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 23:05:41 +0000, Kreso wrote:

> I am writing an application that essentially calculates set of numbers,
> say N1, N2, ..., where they can be calculated by several different
> algorithms. (One should be able to choose the algorithm at run time.) In
> each algorithm one starts from a set of functions, say f1, f2, ...,
> which are then transformed into some other functions g1(f1, f2, ..),
> g2(f1, f2, ...), ... , then maybe transformed once more and result is
> obtained by evaluating final functions.

Sounds like you're doing functional programming. There's a rich set of 
functional tools in languages like Haskell, but in Python there's only a 
few, such as partial(). (See the functools module.)

However, you can make your own, using the following general technique. 
Suppose you want to compose two functions, f and g. Then with a helper 
function:

def compose(f, g):
    def composed_function(*args):
        return f(g(*args))
    return composed_function

you can do this:

>>> def add1(x):
...     return x+1
...
>>> def double(y):
...     return 2*y
...
>>> double_plus_one = compose(add1, double)
>>> double_plus_one(3.5)
8.0


Unfortunately, about the only thing you can't do is check the return type 
of functions without actually calling them.




>   I can naturally think about this as a collection of transformation
> blocks, which have functions as input and output, and which can be put
> together to get the final results. However, I am not sure how to program
> this, especially since one cannot subclass function type. To be clear
> let me give simplified example of what is needed:
> 
> f(x) has unknown shape, so one would like to try, say
> 
> f1(x) = ax - b x**2   or    f2(x) = a sin(b*x),
> 
> where a and b are variable parameters.

You need factory functions!

def axbx2_factory(a, b):
    # Return a function that returns a*x-b*x**2
    def inner(x):
        return a*x -b*x**2
    return inner

And in use:

>>> f1 = axbx2_factory(1, 2)
>>> f2 = axbx2_factory(1, 0)
>>> f1(2.5)
-10.0
>>> f1(3.5)
-21.0
>>> f2(2.5)
2.5
>>> f2(3.5)
3.5



Hope this helps.


-- 
Steven


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 10:41:27 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 07:41:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: An assessment of Tkinter and IDLE
References: <55a0833d-3f1f-402a-8eb7-cb4b7861cce5@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Thanks eb303 for the wonderful post

I have looked over the new ttk widgets and everything looks nice. I am
very glad to see the death of Tix as i never much liked it anyhow and
always believed these widgets should have been in the main Tkinter
module to start with. The tree widget has been needed for some time.

However, i am not sure about the new "style" separation. Previously a
simple command like root.option_add('*Label.Font'...) accomplished the
same thing with less typing, but there may be a future method to this
current madness that i am unaware of...???


From rknop at pobox.com  Fri Aug 28 10:51:09 2009
From: rknop at pobox.com (Rob Knop)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 09:51:09 -0500
Subject: write Unicode to sys.out.write without access to sitecustomize.py
Message-ID: <871vmw56w2.fsf@pobox.com>


I would like to tell the system that it's OK to write Unicode to sys.out
and sys.err.  However, I'm doing this in a CGI script where I don't have
access to the system directories, and as such can't use
sys.setdefaultencoding in sitecustomize.py.

Is there a way to make this happen?

-- 
--Rob Knop
  E-mail:    rknop at pobox.com
  Home Page: http://www.pobox.com/~rknop/
  Blog:      http://www.sonic.net/~rknop/blog/


From gb345 at invalid.com  Fri Aug 28 10:58:11 2009
From: gb345 at invalid.com (gb345)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 14:58:11 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Modules/packages by GvR?
Message-ID: 





Are there any Python-only modules or packages in the latest releases
of Python 2.x or Python 3.x that were largely written by Guido van
Rossum?  What's the best way to find this out?  I know that some
modules mention the author(s) in the source code, but this does
not seem to be true most of the time, as far as I can tell.

I'm interested in reading this code as prime examplars of "Pythonicity".
(I'm sure that many other programmers could serve as models of the
Pythonic ideal, but I doubt that there would be a *less debatable*
choice in this category than GvR.)

Many thanks in advance,

Gabe


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Fri Aug 28 10:58:13 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 11:58:13 -0300
Subject: Transforming a str to an operator
References: 
	<87skfcblo3.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<2d56febf0908272150y59e5d458hab1fc6aa9c14187e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

En Fri, 28 Aug 2009 01:50:37 -0300, Xavier Ho   
escribi?:
> On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Ben Finney
> 
>> wrote:
>
>>    op_funcs = {
>>        '+': operator.add,
>>        '-': operator.sub,
>>        '*': operator.mul,
>>        '/': operator.div,
>>        }
>>    op_prompt = "Select an operator ({}):".format(','.join(op for op in
>> op_funcs))

op_prompt = "Select an operator ({}):".format(','.join(op_funcs))

> Just fixing the code a little to be more "Pythonic" ;).

Even more ;)

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Aug 28 11:12:50 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 16:12:50 +0100
Subject: [OT] How do I reply to a thread by sending a message to
	python-list@python.org
In-Reply-To: <2d56febf0908280204k73a41cc0j63717c8ca258ff33@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090827073102.293C91DF2@ctb-mesg8.saix.net>	
			<87k50ob9o9.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<2d56febf0908280204k73a41cc0j63717c8ca258ff33@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

Xavier Ho wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 6:54 PM, Ben Finney
> 
>> wrote:
> 
>> Fortunately, the messages that come from the list enable any mail client
>> to know the correct address for ?reply to list?. It only remains to
>> choose a mail client that knows how to use it.
> 
> 
> Would you be so kind and share with us for such a client that knows how to
> use the mailing list attribute?
> 
> Thanks!
> -Xav
> 
> 
Further to the earlier reply from Albert Hopkins, I use Thunderbird on 
Windows and just hit reply.  The message I reply to is "from Xavier Ho 
" and "to python-list at python.org".  I think this sums 
it up.

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From bouncyinc at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 11:18:06 2009
From: bouncyinc at gmail.com (John Haggerty)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 09:18:06 -0600
Subject: Modules/packages by GvR?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

How is writing code like a language maintainer going to go towards a
philosophic ideal? And more principally why would this be of a benefit. In
the philosophic world dressing and acting like Socrates isn't necessarily
the same as following his ideals and isn't necessarily being Socratic.

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 8:58 AM, gb345  wrote:

>
>
>
>
> Are there any Python-only modules or packages in the latest releases
> of Python 2.x or Python 3.x that were largely written by Guido van
> Rossum?  What's the best way to find this out?  I know that some
> modules mention the author(s) in the source code, but this does
> not seem to be true most of the time, as far as I can tell.
>
> I'm interested in reading this code as prime examplars of "Pythonicity".
> (I'm sure that many other programmers could serve as models of the
> Pythonic ideal, but I doubt that there would be a *less debatable*
> choice in this category than GvR.)
>
> Many thanks in advance,
>
> Gabe
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

From exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  Fri Aug 28 11:22:49 2009
From: exarkun at twistedmatrix.com (exarkun at twistedmatrix.com)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:22:49 -0000
Subject: write Unicode to sys.out.write without access to sitecustomize.py
In-Reply-To: <871vmw56w2.fsf@pobox.com>
References: <871vmw56w2.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20090828152249.7507.1150495477.divmod.xquotient.5@localhost.localdomain>

On 02:51 pm, rknop at pobox.com wrote:
>
>I would like to tell the system that it's OK to write Unicode to 
>sys.out
>and sys.err.  However, I'm doing this in a CGI script where I don't 
>have
>access to the system directories, and as such can't use
>sys.setdefaultencoding in sitecustomize.py.
>
>Is there a way to make this happen?

Sure, just replace the two files with versions that know how to encode 
the unicode using the correct encoding:

import sys, codecs
info = codecs.lookup('utf-8') # for example
sys.stdout = info.streamwriter(sys.stdout)
sys.stderr = info.streamwriter(sys.stderr)

Jean-Paul


From mccredie at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 11:28:02 2009
From: mccredie at gmail.com (Matimus)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 08:28:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Modules/packages by GvR?
References: 
Message-ID: <789935e7-1952-49bb-8ae1-90b7787d5ff2@r24g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 28, 7:58?am, gb345  wrote:
> Are there any Python-only modules or packages in the latest releases
> of Python 2.x or Python 3.x that were largely written by Guido van
> Rossum? ?What's the best way to find this out? ?I know that some
> modules mention the author(s) in the source code, but this does
> not seem to be true most of the time, as far as I can tell.
>
> I'm interested in reading this code as prime examplars of "Pythonicity".
> (I'm sure that many other programmers could serve as models of the
> Pythonic ideal, but I doubt that there would be a *less debatable*
> choice in this category than GvR.)
>
> Many thanks in advance,
>
> Gabe

I'm sure there are. You might be able to figure that out by browsing
the source repository: http://hg.python.org. But, I wouldn't
necessarily say that any code written by Guido would make a good
example of 'Pythonic' code. Not that he doesn't create good code, but
the language and standards have evolved over time. There may be code
that he wrote from the 2.0 days that may have been perfectly
'Pythonic' then but is just out-of-date now.

In general though, browsing the standard modules is a good way to find
examples, no matter who wrote it. Just keep in mind when it was
written more than who wrote it.

Matt



From jfabiani at yolo.com  Fri Aug 28 11:36:24 2009
From: jfabiani at yolo.com (jfabiani at yolo.com)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 08:36:24 -0700
Subject: why python got less developers ?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

Chris Rebert wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Deep_Feelings
> wrote:
>> python got relatively fewer numbers of developers than other high
>> level languages like .NET , java .. etc ?why ?
> 
> We lack Sun and Microsoft's massive marketing departments. :)

I'm inclined to agreed.  But in recent years we lost a number of developers
to Ruby.  I don't know but I doubt Ruby has a marketing budget.  So in my
mind it is difficult for me to blame just the lack of marketing dollars for
the lost.  

I do take heart in a recent article (on Linux today). that less than 5% of
open source is using C#.  Which tells me that .Net in the open source world
is not doing well. So in my opinion the OP is wrong when he includes .Net
in his assessment of developers.

As far as what the OP is suggesting I'm not to sure it matters how many
total developers are using Python.  Python is always in the top ten of the
languages in use.  And therefore is very popular.  I use it daily. But it
does not mean I don't use other languages too.

Johnf



From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Fri Aug 28 11:42:26 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 08:42:26 -0700
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 			
	 
Message-ID: <4A97FAE2.4060108@stoneleaf.us>

kj wrote:
> Miles Kaufmann  writes:
>>...because the suite  
>>namespace and the class namespace would get out of sync when different  
>>objects were assigned to the class namespace:
> 
> 
>>class C:
>>  x = 1
>>  def foo(self):
>>      print x
>>      print self.x
> 
> 
>>>>>o = C()
>>>>>o.foo()
>>
>>1
>>1
>>
>>>>>o.x = 2
>>>>>o.foo()
>>
>>1
>>2
> 
> 
> But this unfortunate situation is already possible, because one
> can already define
> 
> class C:
>    x = 1
>    def foo(self):
>        print C.x
>        print self.x
> 
> which would lead to exactly the same thing.
> 

This is not the same thing, and definitely not exactly the same thing. 
In your example you are explicitly stating whether you want the original 
class variable, or the current, and possibly different, instance 
variable.  Further, the instance variable will not be different from the 
class variable, even after C.x = whatever, unless the instance has had 
that variable set specifically for it.

In [1]: class C(object):
    ...:     x = 9
    ...:     def doit(self):
    ...:         print C.x
    ...:         print self.x
    ...:

In [2]: test = C()

In [3]: test.doit()
9
9

In [4]: C.x = 10

In [5]: test.doit()
10
10

In [6]: test.x = 7

In [7]: test.doit()
10
7

~Ethan~


From googleaccount at rumbalski.com  Fri Aug 28 11:43:42 2009
From: googleaccount at rumbalski.com (Steven Rumbalski)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 08:43:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Question on the "csv" library
References: <055885e5-b2ee-4ca7-84d9-238034b8f21d@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <183eb772-dda3-45be-82e3-9160091e066b@v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 27, 3:06?pm, vsoler  wrote:
> I am trying to read a csv file generated by excel.
>
> Although I succeed in reading the file, the format that I get is not
> suitable for me.
>
> I've done:
>
> >>> import csv
> >>> spamReader = csv.reader(open('C:\\abc.csv', 'r'))
> >>> print spamReader
>
> <_csv.reader object at 0x01022E70>
>
> >>> for row in spamReader:
>
> ? ? ? ? print row
>
> ['codigo;nombre;cantidad']
> ['a;qwe;1']
> ['b;asd;2']
> ['c;zxc;3']
>
> My questions are:
>
> 1- Why using "print spamReader" I cannot see the data?
> ? ? I expected to see a list of lists, a kind of a matrix, but I get
> nothing
>
> 2- Why are the rows in a single string?
> ? ?I expected a list of fields that, when text, would be delimited by
> "
> ? To tell the truth, the file generated by excel does not contain the
> strings delimited by ". Isn't it weird?
>
> 3- Is there anything I can do to have my data in a list of lists
> structure? would another kind of data suit better my needs?
>
> Thank you for your help
>
> Vicente Soler

the csv module can handle any delimiter.

change this >>> spamReader = csv.reader(open('C:\\abc.csv', 'r'))
to this >>> spamReader = csv.reader(open('C:\\abc.csv', 'r'),
delimiter=';')

hope this helps,
Steven Rumbalski


From bbxx789_05ss at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 28 11:49:12 2009
From: bbxx789_05ss at yahoo.com (7stud)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 08:49:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Sending email
References: <7fpj9tF2clhemU1@mid.individual.net>
	<2b3621fd-53fc-4f20-a048-3608894e52af@o9g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<7fq7aiF2mp83gU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 28, 8:18?am, Fencer 
wrote:
> 7stud wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> Thanks for your reply. After consulting the sysadmins here I was able to
> get it to work.
>
> - Fencer


Ok, but how about posting your code so that a future searcher will not
be left screaming, "WHAT THE EFF WAS THE SOLUTION!!"


From pavpanchekha at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 11:50:14 2009
From: pavpanchekha at gmail.com (Pavel Panchekha)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 08:50:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Distutils evil voodoo: install into a package
References: <824505df-5534-423e-b72c-06d0f62b376b@p15g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<7fgi5oF2juk72U2@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <08f192f0-fdcd-420d-9152-3873f5b77e59@j19g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>

> This is what whe world has created namespace-packages for. At least if
> you can live with the namespace "pya" being otherwise empty.

That seems like a good solution. Thanks!



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Aug 28 11:56:38 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 16:56:38 +0100
Subject: Modules/packages by GvR?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

[fix top posting]

> On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 8:58 AM, gb345  wrote:
> 
>>
>>
>>
>> Are there any Python-only modules or packages in the latest releases
>> of Python 2.x or Python 3.x that were largely written by Guido van
>> Rossum?  What's the best way to find this out?  I know that some
>> modules mention the author(s) in the source code, but this does
>> not seem to be true most of the time, as far as I can tell.
>>
>> I'm interested in reading this code as prime examplars of "Pythonicity".
>> (I'm sure that many other programmers could serve as models of the
>> Pythonic ideal, but I doubt that there would be a *less debatable*
>> choice in this category than GvR.)
>>
>> Many thanks in advance,
>>
>> Gabe
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
> 
John Haggerty wrote:
 > How is writing code like a language maintainer going to go towards a
 > philosophic ideal? And more principally why would this be of a 
benefit. In
 > the philosophic world dressing and acting like Socrates isn't necessarily
 > the same as following his ideals and isn't necessarily being Socratic.
 >

So the poor old BDFL has been reduced to the rank of language 
maintainer.  Is it safe to assume that somebody is organising a whip 
round for him?  Any and all currencies accepted?

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Aug 28 12:09:39 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 12:09:39 -0400
Subject: Modules/packages by GvR?
In-Reply-To: <789935e7-1952-49bb-8ae1-90b7787d5ff2@r24g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<789935e7-1952-49bb-8ae1-90b7787d5ff2@r24g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Matimus wrote:
> On Aug 28, 7:58 am, gb345  wrote:
>> Are there any Python-only modules or packages in the latest releases
>> of Python 2.x or Python 3.x that were largely written by Guido van
>> Rossum?  What's the best way to find this out?  I know that some
>> modules mention the author(s) in the source code, but this does
>> not seem to be true most of the time, as far as I can tell.
>>
>> I'm interested in reading this code as prime examplars of "Pythonicity".
>> (I'm sure that many other programmers could serve as models of the
>> Pythonic ideal, but I doubt that there would be a *less debatable*
>> choice in this category than GvR.)
>>
>> Many thanks in advance,
>>
>> Gabe
> 
> I'm sure there are. You might be able to figure that out by browsing
> the source repository: http://hg.python.org. But, I wouldn't
> necessarily say that any code written by Guido would make a good
> example of 'Pythonic' code. Not that he doesn't create good code, but
> the language and standards have evolved over time. There may be code
> that he wrote from the 2.0 days that may have been perfectly
> 'Pythonic' then but is just out-of-date now.

I am not aware of any recent stdlib modules written by Guido.  I suspect 
most older ones have been updated at least once by someone else.

> In general though, browsing the standard modules is a good way to find
> examples, no matter who wrote it. Just keep in mind when it was
> written more than who wrote it.

The itertools module is relatively recent and has been recommended as 
one to read.



From mark at markroseman.com  Fri Aug 28 12:12:32 2009
From: mark at markroseman.com (Mark Roseman)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 10:12:32 -0600
Subject: An assessment of Tkinter and IDLE
References: <55a0833d-3f1f-402a-8eb7-cb4b7861cce5@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

With regard to Tkinter documentation, and in particular the newer, more 
modern aspects thereof (e.g. ttk, styles, etc.) please have a look at 
the tutorial at http://www.tkdocs.com

Would it be useful to link to this from the main Python Tkinter 
documentation?

Mark


From nagle at animats.com  Fri Aug 28 12:18:11 2009
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 09:18:11 -0700
Subject: Python on the Web
In-Reply-To: <08ac740a-de74-4b5d-94af-35ab4dbe6ecc@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<08ac740a-de74-4b5d-94af-35ab4dbe6ecc@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a9801fa$0$1651$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

Graham Dumpleton wrote:
> A few additional comments on top of what others have said.
> 
> On Aug 26, 11:09 am, Phil  wrote:
>> As I've read elsewhere, "These days, FastCGI is never used directly.

     Actually, FCGI works quite well.  Sitetruth's AdRater
(http://www.sitetruth.com/downloads/adrater.html) uses
FCGI and Python on the server.

     FCGI is basically CGI with process reusability. Each
app gets its own process in its own address space with its
own global interpreter lock.  mod_fcgi in Apache keeps a
supply of such processes around, launching additional ones if there's
heavy request traffic and shutting down existing ones when there
isn't.  Each process handles one transaction after another,
so, unlike CGI, you're not spending all your time loading Python
and its modules.

     Here's the main loop of a real FCGI application.  This uses a small
WSGI library on the Python side.  No "framework" is involved.


#!/usr/local/bin/python
...
from fcgi import WSGIServer
import MySQLdb
db = None	# database connection, held open for life of FCGI
#
#	The application
#
def QuickSitetruthQuery(environ, start_response):
     global db	# static global - active database handle
     try:
         if db :	# if previously attached
             try :
                 db.ping() # test whether connection is still up
             # handle loss of database connection
             except MySQLdb.OperationalError, message:	
                 db = None # we lost database connection
		if db is None :	# if no valid database handle
                     db = miscutils.dbattach(kdbfile)	# connect to database
         status = '200 OK'		# normal status
         headers = [('Content-type','text/xml'), ('charset','utf-8')]
         reqlist = cgi.parse_qsl(environ['QUERY_STRING'])	# Parse params
         priority = 1		# priority of request
         sourceip = environ['REMOTE_ADDR']	# get IP address of client
         urls = []			# list of URLs to check
         for item in reqlist :		# for all items
             (key, value) = item		# extract item
             if key.lower() == 'url' :	# want all "url" items
                 urls.append(value)
             elif key.lower() == 'priority' :	# if priority
                 priority = int(value)	# get priority value
         #	Make request; no waiting, no details
         outstr = InfoDisplay.getratingXMLquick(db, kdbfile, urls,
		priority, sourceip) # get the rating XML, never wait
         start_response(status, headers)		# compose result
         s = kprefixxml + outstr + ksuffixxml	# construct output XML
         return [s.encode('utf8')]		# encode as UTF8
     except Exception, message:		# if trouble, report to user
         #	Error handling
         status = "500 Internal Error on Server"
         response_headers = [("Content-type","text/html")]
         start_response(status, response_headers)
         s = "
Internal error - request not processed.
\n\n"
             + traceback.format_exc()
         s = s.replace("\n","
")	# convert to HTML
         return [s]
#
#	Main FCGI program
#
WSGIServer(QuickSitetruthQuery).run()

					


From bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr  Fri Aug 28 12:32:36 2009
From: bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 18:32:36 +0200
Subject: Python on the Web
In-Reply-To: <4a9812d9$0$1617$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
References: 
	<4a94ef42$0$27774$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	
	<4a96884b$0$22855$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<1b7a2f45-dd10-4722-a9d8-8c6d2464e4d6@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4a97c215$0$16809$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<4a9812d9$0$1617$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <4a98224c$0$437$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

John Nagle a ?crit :
> Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
>> If you're only writing your framework for learning purposes, you could
>> as well go with Python 3, and implement everything from the ground up
>> (not a trivial task FWIW).
> 
>    Python 3 isn't ready for prime time on web servers.  Too many major
> modules,
> haven't been ported yet.

Which ones (sorry, still using 2.5 at work so I didn't bother that much
with 2.6 so far) ?

> MySQLdb is available only up to Python 2.5.  So the basics
> for web work aren't
> ready yet.

I wouldn't label MySQLdb as "a basic for web work" - I mean, something
you just can't do without !-)


From vicente.soler at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 12:35:19 2009
From: vicente.soler at gmail.com (vsoler)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 09:35:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Question on the "csv" library
References: <055885e5-b2ee-4ca7-84d9-238034b8f21d@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<183eb772-dda3-45be-82e3-9160091e066b@v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 28, 5:43?pm, Steven Rumbalski 
wrote:
> On Aug 27, 3:06?pm, vsoler  wrote:
>
>
>
> > I am trying to read a csv file generated by excel.
>
> > Although I succeed in reading the file, the format that I get is not
> > suitable for me.
>
> > I've done:
>
> > >>> import csv
> > >>> spamReader = csv.reader(open('C:\\abc.csv', 'r'))
> > >>> print spamReader
>
> > <_csv.reader object at 0x01022E70>
>
> > >>> for row in spamReader:
>
> > ? ? ? ? print row
>
> > ['codigo;nombre;cantidad']
> > ['a;qwe;1']
> > ['b;asd;2']
> > ['c;zxc;3']
>
> > My questions are:
>
> > 1- Why using "print spamReader" I cannot see the data?
> > ? ? I expected to see a list of lists, a kind of a matrix, but I get
> > nothing
>
> > 2- Why are the rows in a single string?
> > ? ?I expected a list of fields that, when text, would be delimited by
> > "
> > ? To tell the truth, the file generated by excel does not contain the
> > strings delimited by ". Isn't it weird?
>
> > 3- Is there anything I can do to have my data in a list of lists
> > structure? would another kind of data suit better my needs?
>
> > Thank you for your help
>
> > Vicente Soler
>
> the csv module can handle any delimiter.
>
> change this >>> spamReader = csv.reader(open('C:\\abc.csv', 'r'))
> to this >>> spamReader = csv.reader(open('C:\\abc.csv', 'r'),
> delimiter=';')
>
> hope this helps,
> Steven Rumbalski

Thank you very much for all your comments. After reading them I can
conclude that:

1- the CSV format is not standardized; each piece of software uses it
differently

2- the "C" in "CSV" does not mean "comma" for Microsoft Excel; the ";"
comes from my regional Spanish settings

3- Excel does not even put quotes around litteral texts, not even when
the text contains a blank

But, perhaps, there is no standard alternative to CSV !!!


From benjamin at python.org  Fri Aug 28 12:35:40 2009
From: benjamin at python.org (Benjamin Peterson)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 16:35:40 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Modules/packages by GvR?
References: 
	<789935e7-1952-49bb-8ae1-90b7787d5ff2@r24g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Terry Reedy  udel.edu> writes
> 
> I am not aware of any recent stdlib modules written by Guido.  I suspect 
> most older ones have been updated at least once by someone else.

Guido wrote a good deal of the new Python 3 code. However, maintence has now
turned over to over Python developers. For example, I now maintain 2to3 and the
io library, both of which were originally written by Guido.

> 
> > In general though, browsing the standard modules is a good way to find
> > examples, no matter who wrote it. Just keep in mind when it was
> > written more than who wrote it.
> 
> The itertools module is relatively recent and has been recommended as 
> one to read.

That probably don't do much good for your sense of Pythonicity, since it's
written in C. :)



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Fri Aug 28 12:41:35 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:41:35 -0300
Subject: Object's nesting scope
References: 
	<2751e263-ace0-4649-997c-1302d0f3b320@m20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<03269cff-acd9-401a-b98d-0b1136b0d2e0@s13g2000yql.googlegroups.com>
	<2c78ef30-3af6-45bd-b772-e09d895b0cd8@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

En Thu, 27 Aug 2009 12:43:55 -0300, zaur  escribi?:
> On 27 ???, 19:19, Carl Banks  wrote:
>> On Aug 27, 8:01?am, zaur  wrote:
>> > On 27 ???, 18:34, Carl Banks  wrote:
>> > > The idea has been
>> > > discussed in various forms here quite a bit over the years. ?I doubt
>> > > there's any chance it'll be accepted into Python, because it goes
>> > > against one of the main design points of Python: that attributes
>> > > should always be accessed explicitly.
>>
> In my opinion idea of using object's dictionary as nested scope is
> more about structuring code blocks rather than just saving typing and
> implicit attribute access.

But you *are* doing implicit attribute access. Anyway, the topic was  
raised and rejected several times in the past; see this recent thread in  
the python-ideas list:
http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.ideas/5518

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Fri Aug 28 13:02:32 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 14:02:32 -0300
Subject: Question on the "csv" library
References: <055885e5-b2ee-4ca7-84d9-238034b8f21d@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<183eb772-dda3-45be-82e3-9160091e066b@v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

En Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:35:19 -0300, vsoler   
escribi?:

> On Aug 28, 5:43?pm, Steven Rumbalski 
> wrote:
>> On Aug 27, 3:06?pm, vsoler  wrote:

>> > I am trying to read a csv file generated by excel.
>> > ['a;qwe;1']
>> > ['b;asd;2']
>> > ['c;zxc;3']
>
> Thank you very much for all your comments. After reading them I can
> conclude that:
>
> 1- the CSV format is not standardized; each piece of software uses it
> differently

Yes! And that's part of the pain of working with 'csv' files.

> 2- the "C" in "CSV" does not mean "comma" for Microsoft Excel; the ";"
> comes from my regional Spanish settings

Yes - but not just Excel, other programs do call "CSV" files that are  
TAB-separated, by example.

> 3- Excel does not even put quotes around litteral texts, not even when
> the text contains a blank

I guess you'll get quotes around text containing ';' characters

> But, perhaps, there is no standard alternative to CSV !!!

Of course there are! You may use SYLK, DIFF, XML, XDR...

"The nice thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from."  
(Andrew S. Tanenbaum)

But look for the xlrd package, it lets you read Excel files directly from  
Python.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From dns4 at cornell.edu  Fri Aug 28 13:06:09 2009
From: dns4 at cornell.edu (David Smith)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:06:09 -0400
Subject: Question on the "csv" library
In-Reply-To: 
References: <055885e5-b2ee-4ca7-84d9-238034b8f21d@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<183eb772-dda3-45be-82e3-9160091e066b@v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

vsoler wrote:
> 
> Thank you very much for all your comments. After reading them I can
> conclude that:
> 
> 1- the CSV format is not standardized; each piece of software uses it
> differently

True, but there are commonalities.  See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comma-separated_values

> 
> 2- the "C" in "CSV" does not mean "comma" for Microsoft Excel; the ";"
> comes from my regional Spanish settings

The C really does stand for comma.  I've never seen MS spit out
semi-colon separated text on a CSV format.

> 
> 3- Excel does not even put quotes around litteral texts, not even when
> the text contains a blank

There is no need to quote text literals with whitespace in them.  There
is a need when a newline exists or when the separator character is
embedded in the field.


--David


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Fri Aug 28 13:09:52 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 14:09:52 -0300
Subject: Raw data extraction question
References: <250bf47b-6307-435a-b991-caee359c4ccf@n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

En Wed, 26 Aug 2009 12:18:23 -0300, Maggie  escribi?:

> i have event timing stretch of code i need to alter. here is code
> below:
> --------------
> # we start each run with one full silent trial
> # creating a "stub" with the duration of a full block
> # less the discarded acquisitions
> stub = block_dur - (distax * tr)
>
> feed = sys.stdin.readlines()
> sess = -1
> for line in feed:
>     if re.search(line != rest):
> 	   time = (line + line (-1)) + (distax * tr)
> 	  		print time
>
> 	 elif (line(-1) = rest):
> 	    # block onsets are determined by
> 	    # block number, block duration,
> 	    # and the stub; 3dDeconvolve
>             # takes care of making these
> 	    # "global"
>         	time = (line) + (distax * tr)
> 	    	print time
> -----

When you post some piece of code, copy & paste it from the original  
source; don't retype. The code above don't even compile.

> my concern is that it is extracting line number and not data contained
> on a given line. I need it to extract data from each line (excluding
> lines with spaces and/or lines that contain the word "pause" or
> "silence"). Basically i need ONLY raw data extracted from line 1 -
> onward.

How does a line look like? Post some sample lines.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Aug 28 13:14:36 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 18:14:36 +0100
Subject: Question on the "csv" library
In-Reply-To: 
References: <055885e5-b2ee-4ca7-84d9-238034b8f21d@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>	<183eb772-dda3-45be-82e3-9160091e066b@v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

vsoler wrote:
> On Aug 28, 5:43 pm, Steven Rumbalski 
> wrote:
>> On Aug 27, 3:06 pm, vsoler  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> I am trying to read a csv file generated by excel.
>>> Although I succeed in reading the file, the format that I get is not
>>> suitable for me.
>>> I've done:
>>>>>> import csv
>>>>>> spamReader = csv.reader(open('C:\\abc.csv', 'r'))
>>>>>> print spamReader
>>> <_csv.reader object at 0x01022E70>
>>>>>> for row in spamReader:
>>>         print row
>>> ['codigo;nombre;cantidad']
>>> ['a;qwe;1']
>>> ['b;asd;2']
>>> ['c;zxc;3']
>>> My questions are:
>>> 1- Why using "print spamReader" I cannot see the data?
>>>     I expected to see a list of lists, a kind of a matrix, but I get
>>> nothing
>>> 2- Why are the rows in a single string?
>>>    I expected a list of fields that, when text, would be delimited by
>>> "
>>>   To tell the truth, the file generated by excel does not contain the
>>> strings delimited by ". Isn't it weird?
>>> 3- Is there anything I can do to have my data in a list of lists
>>> structure? would another kind of data suit better my needs?
>>> Thank you for your help
>>> Vicente Soler
>> the csv module can handle any delimiter.
>>
>> change this >>> spamReader = csv.reader(open('C:\\abc.csv', 'r'))
>> to this >>> spamReader = csv.reader(open('C:\\abc.csv', 'r'),
>> delimiter=';')
>>
>> hope this helps,
>> Steven Rumbalski
> 
> Thank you very much for all your comments. After reading them I can
> conclude that:
> 
> 1- the CSV format is not standardized; each piece of software uses it
> differently
> 
> 2- the "C" in "CSV" does not mean "comma" for Microsoft Excel; the ";"
> comes from my regional Spanish settings
> 
> 3- Excel does not even put quotes around litteral texts, not even when
> the text contains a blank
> 
> But, perhaps, there is no standard alternative to CSV !!!
This depends on the use case of yourself or your users.  If you could 
give more detail on what you are trying to achieve then I'm sure that 
more help will be forthcoming.  For example, could the file be saved in
Excel 97-2003 xls format and then processed with the excellent 
xlrd/xlwt/xlutils? They are available here:-
http://pypi.python.org/pypi/xlutils/1.4.0

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From hniksic at xemacs.org  Fri Aug 28 13:19:44 2009
From: hniksic at xemacs.org (Hrvoje Niksic)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 19:19:44 +0200
Subject: Question on the "csv" library
References: <055885e5-b2ee-4ca7-84d9-238034b8f21d@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<183eb772-dda3-45be-82e3-9160091e066b@v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <87ocpzdff3.fsf@busola.homelinux.net>

David Smith  writes:

>> 2- the "C" in "CSV" does not mean "comma" for Microsoft Excel; the ";"
>> comes from my regional Spanish settings
>
> The C really does stand for comma.  I've never seen MS spit out
> semi-colon separated text on a CSV format.

That's because you're running MS Office in a US language environment.
In almost all of Europe MS products use comma as the decimal separator,
and semicolon for CSV field separation.


From no.email at please.post  Fri Aug 28 13:23:37 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:23:37 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 			
	 
	
Message-ID: 

In  Ethan Furman  writes:

>kj wrote:
>> Miles Kaufmann  writes:
>>>...because the suite  
>>>namespace and the class namespace would get out of sync when different  
>>>objects were assigned to the class namespace:
>> 
>> 
>>>class C:
>>>  x = 1
>>>  def foo(self):
>>>      print x
>>>      print self.x
>> 
>> 
>>>>>>o = C()
>>>>>>o.foo()
>>>
>>>1
>>>1
>>>
>>>>>>o.x = 2
>>>>>>o.foo()
>>>
>>>1
>>>2
>> 
>> 
>> But this unfortunate situation is already possible, because one
>> can already define
>> 
>> class C:
>>    x = 1
>>    def foo(self):
>>        print C.x
>>        print self.x
>> 
>> which would lead to exactly the same thing.
>> 

>This is not the same thing, and definitely not exactly the same thing. 

Thanks for the clarification!

kynn



From rt8396 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 13:27:15 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 10:27:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: An assessment of Tkinter and IDLE
References: <55a0833d-3f1f-402a-8eb7-cb4b7861cce5@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <1010dd16-fa92-46b6-8391-b8a701704472@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 28, 11:12?am, Mark Roseman  wrote:
> Would it be useful to link to this from the main Python Tkinter
> documentation?
>
> Mark

Thanks Mark, but i would hate to see more links to TCL code in the
python docs. Whats the use of Tkinter if the docs are in TCL. Just
learn TCL and skip the Python middleman. But i don;t want to code in
TCL (*puke*) i much prefer Python even if i am calling wrapped TCL.
Not to mention this link is not a complete coverage of all the widgets
anyway.

We desperately need a complete reference for tkinter written with only
Python code that covers all widgets, all widget options, and all
widget methods. And this would be a minimal effort if someone would
just do it. Most of the information is already out there in various
locations around the net. We just need to compile, compress, and edit
it into one short and to the point reference material.

I will happily volunteer to create on my own or contribute to the docs
if i can get a guarantee from the tkinter maintainer that my work
would not be in vain.


From nagle at animats.com  Fri Aug 28 13:30:09 2009
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 10:30:09 -0700
Subject: Python on the Web
In-Reply-To: <4a97c215$0$16809$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: 
	<4a94ef42$0$27774$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	
	<4a96884b$0$22855$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<1b7a2f45-dd10-4722-a9d8-8c6d2464e4d6@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4a97c215$0$16809$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4a9812d9$0$1617$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
> If you're only writing your framework for learning purposes, you could 
> as well go with Python 3, and implement everything from the ground up 
> (not a trivial task FWIW).

    Python 3 isn't ready for prime time on web servers.  Too many major modules,
haven't been ported yet.  Twisted and Django are now available up to Python 2.6; 
MySQLdb is available only up to Python 2.5.  So the basics for web work aren't
ready yet.

    Python 2.5 is more or less the "stable" version of Python for production
use at the moment.  2.6 is a transition version to 3.0.

				John Nagle


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Aug 28 13:44:22 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 18:44:22 +0100
Subject: An assessment of Tkinter and IDLE
In-Reply-To: <1010dd16-fa92-46b6-8391-b8a701704472@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
References: <55a0833d-3f1f-402a-8eb7-cb4b7861cce5@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	
	<1010dd16-fa92-46b6-8391-b8a701704472@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

r wrote:
> On Aug 28, 11:12 am, Mark Roseman  wrote:
>> Would it be useful to link to this from the main Python Tkinter
>> documentation?
>>
>> Mark
> 
> Thanks Mark, but i would hate to see more links to TCL code in the
> python docs. Whats the use of Tkinter if the docs are in TCL. Just
> learn TCL and skip the Python middleman. But i don;t want to code in
> TCL (*puke*) i much prefer Python even if i am calling wrapped TCL.
> Not to mention this link is not a complete coverage of all the widgets
> anyway.
> 
> We desperately need a complete reference for tkinter written with only
> Python code that covers all widgets, all widget options, and all
> widget methods. And this would be a minimal effort if someone would
> just do it. Most of the information is already out there in various
> locations around the net. We just need to compile, compress, and edit
> it into one short and to the point reference material.
> 
> I will happily volunteer to create on my own or contribute to the docs
> if i can get a guarantee from the tkinter maintainer that my work
> would not be in vain.
Please go ahead and try it.  Having read the "Summary of Python tracker 
Issues" on the python-dev mailing list, and followed from there to the 
bug tracker, it seems that all input is greatly appreciated.  For the 
small issues the reply is often "Thanks, done".  Some things get 
rejected, and usually rightly so from what I can see.  Others the issue 
is closed with the half way house committed/rejected.  Work that out for 
yourself if you can.:)

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From warpcat at sbcglobal.net  Fri Aug 28 14:13:06 2009
From: warpcat at sbcglobal.net (AK Eric)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 11:13:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Query screen resolution?
Message-ID: <7d57e7c2-39bf-4515-8642-6bcbeba0492c@u16g2000pru.googlegroups.com>

Thought this would be easy, maybe I'm missing something :)  Trying to
query the x,y resolution of my screen.  I've seen this available
through http://python.net/crew/mhammond/win32/ :

from win32api import GetSystemMetrics
print "width =", GetSystemMetrics (0)
print "height =",GetSystemMetrics (1)

But I was hoping for something built-in, and something non-OS
specific.  Is that available?  Would be nice to detect for multiple
monitors as well, but I'm probably asking too much :)

Thanks!


From szport at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 14:25:55 2009
From: szport at gmail.com (zaur)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 11:25:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Object's nesting scope
References: 
	<7fkqodF2llnghU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<1ea2a98f-4035-4ec6-b5a9-06b21dd6f584@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4a97c851$0$307$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <440b8caf-27f9-49d4-8d1b-94f93c75eb23@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On 28 ???, 16:07, Bruno Desthuilliers  wrote:
> zaur a ?crit :
>
>
>
> > On 26 ???, 17:13, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
> >> Whom am we to judge? Sure if you propose this, you have some usecases in
> >> mind - how about you present these
>
> > Ok. Here is a use case: object initialization.
>
> > For example,
>
> > person = Person():
> > ? name = "john"
> > ? age = 30
> > ? address = Address():
> > ? ? ?street = "Green Street"
> > ? ? ?no = 12
>
> > vs.
>
> > person = Person()
> > person.name = "john"
> > person.age = 30
> > address = person.address = Address()
> > address.street = "Green Street"
> > address.no = 12
>
> Err... Looks like you really should read the FineManual(tm) -
> specifically, the parts on the __init__ method.
>
> class Person(object):
> ? ? def __init__(self, name, age, address):
> ? ? ? ? self.name = name
> ? ? ? ? self.age = age
> ? ? ? ? self.address = address
>
> class Address(object):
> ? ? def __init__(self, street, no):
> ? ? ? ? self.no = no
> ? ? ? ? self.street = street
>
> person = Person(
> ? ? name="john",
> ? ? age=30,
> ? ? address = Address(
> ? ? ? ? street="Green Street",
> ? ? ? ? no=12
> ? ? )
> )

What are you doing if 1) classes Person and Address imported from
foreign module 2) __init__ method is not defined as you want?


From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 14:27:15 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 11:27:15 -0700
Subject: Query screen resolution?
In-Reply-To: <7d57e7c2-39bf-4515-8642-6bcbeba0492c@u16g2000pru.googlegroups.com>
References: <7d57e7c2-39bf-4515-8642-6bcbeba0492c@u16g2000pru.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

> But I was hoping for something built-in, and something non-OS
> specific.

I don't know about built-ins, but I do believe that pygame (which *is*  
cross-platform) will let you get at that information:
	http://www.pygame.org/docs/ref/display.html#pygame.display.Info

On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 11:13:06 -0700, AK Eric  wrote:

> Thought this would be easy, maybe I'm missing something :)  Trying to
> query the x,y resolution of my screen.  I've seen this available
> through http://python.net/crew/mhammond/win32/ :
>
> from win32api import GetSystemMetrics
> print "width =", GetSystemMetrics (0)
> print "height =",GetSystemMetrics (1)
>
> But I was hoping for something built-in, and something non-OS
> specific.  Is that available?  Would be nice to detect for multiple
> monitors as well, but I'm probably asking too much :)
>
> Thanks!



-- 
Rami Chowdhury
"Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --  
Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)


From gert.cuykens at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 14:31:31 2009
From: gert.cuykens at gmail.com (gert)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 11:31:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: how to edit .wsgi file extebtions with IDLE on windows
Message-ID: 

I can't figure out how to enable the .py shell and syntax highlighting
for .wsgi file extensions using IDLE for windows ?


From davea at ieee.org  Fri Aug 28 14:35:35 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 14:35:35 -0400
Subject: Select column from a list
In-Reply-To: <25185508.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <25185508.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <4A982377.7020402@ieee.org>

hoffik wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm quite new in Python and I have one question. I have a 2D matrix of
> values stored in list (3 columns, many rows). I wonder if I can select one
> column without having to go through the list with 'for' command.
>
> For example I have list called 'values'.
> When I write 'values[0]' or 'values[0][:]' I'll get the first row.
> But when I write 'values[:][0]' I won't get the first column, but the first
> row again! I can't see why.
>
> Thanks
> Hoffik
>   
Python doesn't have 2d matrices as a native type.  Others have already 
suggested Numpy.  But I'll assume you really want to stick with what's 
included in base Python, because you're still learning.  (Aren't we all?)

The real question to me is how this data is related to each other.  If 
it's uniform data, organized in a 3x20 rectangle, or whatever, then 
maybe you want to use a single list, and just use slicing to extract 
particular rows and columns.  You were actually using slicing in your 
example above;  that's what the colon does.  But in your case, you used 
defaults for the 3 arguments, so you got a *copy* of the entire list.

Slicing to get one row would be simply    values[row*3:(row+1)*3], and 
one column would be print values[column: -1: 3]

Notice that I hardcoded the width of our "matrix," since list doesn't 
know anything about it.  And notice it's easy to add more rows, but not 
easy to change row size, because that's not part of the structure, but 
part of the code to access it.

Next possibility is to make a class to describe the data structure.  You 
can make methods that mimic the behavior you want.

But I suspect that the row is 3 specific values, maybe not even the same 
type as each other.  So they might be name, address, and phone number.  
Each row represents a family, and each column represents a type of 
data.  In this case, I'd suggest making each row an instance of a new 
class you define, and making a list of those objects.

Now, you might be representing a row by an object of your class.  And 
representing a column by two things:   your list & an accessor method 
that knows how to extract that particular field.

DaveA



From matthew.bellis at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 14:36:51 2009
From: matthew.bellis at gmail.com (Matt Bellis)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 11:36:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to exclude "import"s from PyDoc
References: 
	<7flt66F2lho6lU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <613fc599-609a-4df3-b46b-8bba6297da55@i8g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

Hi Diez,

  Thanks for the heads up. I'll give epydoc a shot.

Matt



>
> > ? ?Anyone know the best way to getPyDocto ignore this (or other)
> > imported module(s)?
>
> Don't know aboutpydoc, but epydoc (which generates much nicer docs
> imho) can be forced to only include certain packages.
>
> Diez



From xiaosongxia at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 28 14:38:30 2009
From: xiaosongxia at yahoo.com (xiaosong xia)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 11:38:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: copy construtor question
Message-ID: <613204.64791.qm@web53105.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hi all,
?
I am trying to define a class with copy constructor as following:
?
class test:
???? def __init__(self, s=None):
????????? self=s
?
x=[1,2]
?
y=test(x)
?
print y.__dict__
?
it gives 
{}
?
The above code doesn't work. 
?
Questions are:
?
1. Can 'self ' be a class attribute?
2. How to make a copy constructor?
?
Thanks for any help.
?
Eric


      
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From warpcat at sbcglobal.net  Fri Aug 28 14:49:16 2009
From: warpcat at sbcglobal.net (Warpcat)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 11:49:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Query screen resolution?
References: <7d57e7c2-39bf-4515-8642-6bcbeba0492c@u16g2000pru.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <04a85dc7-d1e7-4566-9ee9-fa9090b45543@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 28, 11:27?am, "Rami Chowdhury" 
wrote:
> > But I was hoping for something built-in, and something non-OS
> > specific.
>
> I don't know about built-ins, but I do believe that pygame (which *is* ?
> cross-platform) will let you get at that information:
> ? ? ? ?http://www.pygame.org/docs/ref/display.html#pygame.display.Info

Actually, I just came up with another hack using PyGame as well like
so:

screen = pygame.display.set_mode((0,0))
WIDTH, HEIGHT = screen.get_size()

If you pass zero values into the resolution, it will pop to the
current screen resolution.  And since I'm making a PyGame app, this
actually works out ok.  However, querying the current_w & current_h
attrs from the Info object is a lot cleaner (I was unaware of that,
thanks!)

But I'd sure like to know if there is built-in way.



From somebody at somewhere.com  Fri Aug 28 14:57:28 2009
From: somebody at somewhere.com (Stephen Fairchild)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 19:57:28 +0100
Subject: Select column from a list
References: 
Message-ID: 

hoffik wrote:

> 
> Hello,
> 
> I'm quite new in Python and I have one question. I have a 2D matrix of
> values stored in list (3 columns, many rows). I wonder if I can select one
> column without having to go through the list with 'for' command.
> 
> For example I have list called 'values'.
> When I write 'values[0]' or 'values[0][:]' I'll get the first row.
> But when I write 'values[:][0]' I won't get the first column, but the
> first row again! I can't see why.

rows = [(1, 5, 9), (2, 6, 10), (3, 7, 11), (4, 8, 12)]
cols = zip(*rows)

To just get the second column:

zip(*rows)[1]
-- 
Stephen Fairchild


From vicente.soler at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 14:58:48 2009
From: vicente.soler at gmail.com (vsoler)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 11:58:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Colors on IDLE
Message-ID: 

Everything that I see in IDLE is in black.

I have tried to add colors, without success.

I've tried:  /Options/Configure IDLE/Highlighting/IDLE Classic


From vicente.soler at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 15:00:21 2009
From: vicente.soler at gmail.com (vsoler)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 12:00:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Colors on IDLE
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 28, 8:58?pm, vsoler  wrote:
> Everything that I see in IDLE is in black.
>
> I have tried to add colors, without success.
>
> I've tried: ?/Options/Configure IDLE/Highlighting/IDLE Classic

Couldn't finish writing...   sorry
-----------------------------------

Everything that I see in IDLE is in black.

I have tried to add colors, without success.

I've tried:  /Options/Configure IDLE/Highlighting/IDLE Classic

However, everything remains black. Any help is highly appreciated

Vicente Soler


From pfeldman at verizon.net  Fri Aug 28 15:00:31 2009
From: pfeldman at verizon.net (Dr. Phillip M. Feldman)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 12:00:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: comparison on list yields surprising result
Message-ID: <25195170.post@talk.nabble.com>


In [21]: x
Out[21]: [1, 2, 3, 5]

In [22]: x>6
Out[22]: True

Is this a bug?
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/comparison-on-list-yields-surprising-result-tp25195170p25195170.html
Sent from the Python - python-list mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Fri Aug 28 15:00:36 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 12:00:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Question on the "csv" library
References: <055885e5-b2ee-4ca7-84d9-238034b8f21d@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<183eb772-dda3-45be-82e3-9160091e066b@v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 29, 2:35?am, vsoler  wrote:

> 3- Excel does not even put quotes around litteral texts, not even when
> the text contains a blank

Correct. Quoting is necessary only if a text field contains a
delimiter (semicolon/comma), a newline, or the quote character.

You can read Excel CSV output using the Python csv module by
specifying delimiter=";"

If you need to feed a CSV file to some software that demands that text
fields be quoted unconditionally, you have at least two options:

(1) If you know which fields should be text fields, you can read the
Excel-output file with Python csv, convert your non-text fields to
float, and write it back out with quoting=csv.QUOTE_NONNUMERIC.

(2) If you want precise control (and thus precise knowledge), use xlrd
(http://pypi.python.org/pypi/xlrd) to read Excel 97-2003 .xls files --
it will tell you cell by cell (NOT column by column (the user has
control of the type at the cell level)) whether the cell contains text
(reported as a unicode object), a number (float), a Boolean (int, 1 or
0), a date (float, days since ? (read the docs)), or an error code
e.g. #DIV/0! (int, read the docs) ... then you can write it out
however you like.

HTH,
John


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Fri Aug 28 15:16:59 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 12:16:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: comparison on list yields surprising result
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 29, 5:00?am, "Dr. Phillip M. Feldman" 
wrote:
> In [21]: x
> Out[21]: [1, 2, 3, 5]
>
> In [22]: x>6
> Out[22]: True
>
> Is this a bug?

No.

http://docs.python.org/reference/expressions.html#notin




From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Aug 28 15:19:43 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 21:19:43 +0200
Subject: comparison on list yields surprising result
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A982DCF.2060201@nospam.web.de>

Dr. Phillip M. Feldman schrieb:
> In [21]: x
> Out[21]: [1, 2, 3, 5]
> 
> In [22]: x>6
> Out[22]: True
> 
> Is this a bug?

In python2.x, it's the defined behavior - all types are somhow 
comparable. The comparison is stable (all lists compare larger to all 
ints), but of course this by no means well-defined.

This debatable design-decision has been remedied in Python3:

Python 3.1 (r31:73578, Jun 27 2009, 21:49:46)
[GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Inc. build 5493)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> list(range(10)) < 10
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "", line 1, in 
TypeError: unorderable types: list() < int()
 >>>





Diez


From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Aug 28 15:19:58 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 21:19:58 +0200
Subject: comparison on list yields surprising result
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7fqouuF2mlupvU2@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Dr. Phillip M. Feldman schrieb:
> In [21]: x
> Out[21]: [1, 2, 3, 5]
> 
> In [22]: x>6
> Out[22]: True
> 
> Is this a bug?

In python2.x, it's the defined behavior - all types are somhow 
comparable. The comparison is stable (all lists compare larger to all 
ints), but of course this by no means well-defined.

This debatable design-decision has been remedied in Python3:

Python 3.1 (r31:73578, Jun 27 2009, 21:49:46)
[GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Inc. build 5493)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> list(range(10)) < 10
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "", line 1, in 
TypeError: unorderable types: list() < int()
 >>>





Diez


From motoom at xs4all.nl  Fri Aug 28 15:23:12 2009
From: motoom at xs4all.nl (Michiel Overtoom)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 21:23:12 +0200
Subject: An assessment of Tkinter and IDLE
In-Reply-To: <1010dd16-fa92-46b6-8391-b8a701704472@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
References: <55a0833d-3f1f-402a-8eb7-cb4b7861cce5@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	
	<1010dd16-fa92-46b6-8391-b8a701704472@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A982EA0.10808@xs4all.nl>

r wrote:

> Whats the use of Tkinter if the docs are in TCL. Just
> learn TCL and skip the Python middleman. 

But Mark's tutorial at http://www.tkdocs.com/tutorial/index.html allows 
you to select 'Python' as one of the languages you want to see the 
example code in.

Too bad that the 'ttk' widgets are not mainstream yet.

Greetings,

-- 
"The ability of the OSS process to collect and harness
the collective IQ of thousands of individuals across
the Internet is simply amazing." - Vinod Valloppillil
http://www.catb.org/~esr/halloween/halloween4.html


From gert.cuykens at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 15:24:25 2009
From: gert.cuykens at gmail.com (gert)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 12:24:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: how to send 100 continues in wsgi application ?
Message-ID: 

how do you send 100 continues in a wsgi applications ?

when using curl -T file http://localhost/upload.wsgi on the
wsgiref.simple_server it get stuck waiting for a 100 continue

import os

def application(environ, response):
    query=os.path.join(os.path.dirname(__file__),'teeeeeeeeeemp')
    range=environ.get('HTTP_CONTENT_RANGE','bytes 0-').replace('bytes
','').split('/')[0].split(',')
    offset=[]
    for r in range: offset.append(r.split('-'))
    with open(query,'ab+') as f:
         if environ['REQUEST_METHOD']=='PUT':
             f.seek(int(offset[0][0]))
             f.truncate()
             while True:
                 chunk=environ['wsgi.input'].read(8192)
                 if not chunk: break
                 f.write(chunk)
             f.flush()
         l=str(os.fstat(f.fileno()).st_size)
    response('200 OK', [('Content-Type', 'text/plain'), ('Content-
Length', str(len(l)))])
    return [l]





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Aug 28 15:29:09 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 28 Aug 2009 12:29:09 -0700
Subject: Overriding iadd for dictionary like objects
References: 
	
	
	<21e57363-4e92-41cb-9907-5aef96ad0a6e@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

In article <21e57363-4e92-41cb-9907-5aef96ad0a6e at o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
RunThePun   wrote:
>
>Anybody have any more ideas? I think python should/could havev a
>syntax for overriding this behaviour, i mean, obviously the complexity
>of supporting all operators with the getitem syntax could introduce
>alot of clutter. But maybe there's an elegant solution out there...

Any solution you create must support this:

>>> L = [3]
>>> L[0] += 7
>>> L
[10]
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I support family values -- Addams family values" --www.nancybuttons.com


From pfeldman at verizon.net  Fri Aug 28 15:47:13 2009
From: pfeldman at verizon.net (Dr. Phillip M. Feldman)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 12:47:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: comparison on list yields surprising result
In-Reply-To: <4A982DCF.2060201@nospam.web.de>
References: <25195170.post@talk.nabble.com> <4A982DCF.2060201@nospam.web.de>
Message-ID: <25195893.post@talk.nabble.com>


It looks as though what I should have done is the following:

In [23]: array(x) > 6
Out[23]: array([False, False, False, False], dtype=bool)
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/comparison-on-list-yields-surprising-result-tp25195170p25195893.html
Sent from the Python - python-list mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From clp2 at rebertia.com  Fri Aug 28 15:55:11 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 12:55:11 -0700
Subject: Colors on IDLE
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908281255n1f17d4c9l335c39a3acd5c7c4@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 12:00 PM, vsoler wrote:
> On Aug 28, 8:58?pm, vsoler  wrote:
>> Everything that I see in IDLE is in black.
>>
>> I have tried to add colors, without success.
>>
>> I've tried: ?/Options/Configure IDLE/Highlighting/IDLE Classic
>
> Couldn't finish writing... ? sorry
> -----------------------------------
>
> Everything that I see in IDLE is in black.
>
> I have tried to add colors, without success.
>
> I've tried: ?/Options/Configure IDLE/Highlighting/IDLE Classic
>
> However, everything remains black. Any help is highly appreciated

What OS are you on?

- Chris


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 16:03:40 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:03:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Overriding iadd for dictionary like objects
References: 
	
	 
	
	<21e57363-4e92-41cb-9907-5aef96ad0a6e@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 26, 11:49?pm, RunThePun  wrote:
> Anybody have any more ideas? I think python should/could havev a
> syntax for overriding this behaviour, i mean, obviously the complexity
> of supporting all operators with the getitem syntax could introduce
> alot of clutter. But maybe there's an elegant solution out there...

I don't think it needs a syntax for that, but I'm not so sure a method
to modify a value in place with a single key lookup wouldn't
occasioanally be useful.

For instance:

   def increment(value):
       return value+1
   d = { 'a': 1 }
   d.apply_to_value('a',increment)
   print d

and d['a'] would be 2.  The difference is that only one lookup
occurs.  (The dictionary would be locked to modifications while the
callback function is called, same as if it were being iterated over.)

Thing is, there's no way to get that ability except subclass dict in
C; can't be done from Python.  Which is why even though it'd be a
pretty rare need it at least deserves a bit of consideration before
being tabled.

As a workaround, if lookups are expensive, you can add an indirection
to the dict.  For example, you could let each value in the dict be a
singleton list which is permanently bound to the key.  Then you only
have look up the key once to modify the value.

    d = { 'a': [1] }
    ston = d['a']
    ston[0] += 3

and now d['a'][0] is 4, and there was only one dict lookup.  Downside
is that you have the [0] to carry around, but that is the price of
indirection.  A wrapper class might help.


Carl Banks


From mwilson at the-wire.com  Fri Aug 28 16:38:55 2009
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 16:38:55 -0400
Subject: Object's nesting scope
References: 
	<7fkqodF2llnghU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<1ea2a98f-4035-4ec6-b5a9-06b21dd6f584@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4a97c851$0$307$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<440b8caf-27f9-49d4-8d1b-94f93c75eb23@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

zaur wrote:

> On 28 ???, 16:07, Bruno Desthuilliers  42.desthuilli... at websiteburo.invalid> wrote:
>> zaur a ?crit :
>>
>>
>>
>> > On 26 ???, 17:13, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
>> >> Whom am we to judge? Sure if you propose this, you have some usecases
>> >> in mind - how about you present these
>>
>> > Ok. Here is a use case: object initialization.
>>
>> > For example,
>>
>> > person = Person():
>> > name = "john"
>> > age = 30
>> > address = Address():
>> > street = "Green Street"
>> > no = 12
>>
>> > vs.
>>
>> > person = Person()
>> > person.name = "john"
>> > person.age = 30
>> > address = person.address = Address()
>> > address.street = "Green Street"
>> > address.no = 12
>>
>> Err... Looks like you really should read the FineManual(tm) -
>> specifically, the parts on the __init__ method.
>>
>> class Person(object):
>> def __init__(self, name, age, address):
>> self.name = name
>> self.age = age
>> self.address = address
>>
>> class Address(object):
>> def __init__(self, street, no):
>> self.no = no
>> self.street = street
>>
>> person = Person(
>> name="john",
>> age=30,
>> address = Address(
>> street="Green Street",
>> no=12
>> )
>> )
> 
> What are you doing if 1) classes Person and Address imported from
> foreign module 2) __init__ method is not defined as you want?

My work-around would be:

p = person = Person()
p.name = "john"
p.age = age	# assuming, for a moment, that the age I wanted to set 
                # happened to be in another variable
a = p.address = Address()
a.street = "Green Street"
a.no = 12

del a, p	# optional, for a tidier namespace

Slightly verbose, but, saying what it means, it avoids having to guess which 
age of several ages might have to be used in various places; the same would 
go for other input variables.  Actually, I probably wouldn't use p as a 
stand-in for person unless person were a global name and p could be local.

	Mel.



From charles at declareSub.com  Fri Aug 28 16:40:54 2009
From: charles at declareSub.com (Charles Yeomans)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 16:40:54 -0400
Subject: why python got less developers ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<71fc40ff-cf0e-4b15-b60c-dd42deaac49d@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 


On Aug 28, 2009, at 1:03 AM, Esam Qanadeely wrote:

> who cares if a language is compiled or interpreted as long as it runs
> and perform the function.
>
> second thing is : even if java is faster than python , unless you are
> making performance critical operations : who cares? computers are
> getting faster all the time and languages like python or ruby are fast
> enough.
>
> any comment ?

Many developers suffer from performance anxiety.

Charles Yeomans


From ken at seehart.com  Fri Aug 28 16:59:57 2009
From: ken at seehart.com (Ken Seehart)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:59:57 -0700
Subject: cgi and POST
Message-ID: <4A98454D.6050006@seehart.com>

I can't seem to find an answer to this simple question on the web, and 
the documentation doesn't seem to indicate how to do this...

On the client I have:
        urllib.urlopen(uri, data)

This does a POST, but it's not obvious to me how this maps onto the 
various cgi examples which assume that the POST operation came from an 
html form with a file field.

In my case, there is no html form, and there is no file field, so please 
do not refer me to a page that just gives examples where the data is 
coming from a file transfer form.  I have already visited those pages.

My question is this:

Using cgi, how do I get the /data /(not the uri arguments) originating 
from a POST that did not originate from a form.

Thanks.



From vicente.soler at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 17:34:07 2009
From: vicente.soler at gmail.com (vsoler)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 14:34:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Colors on IDLE
References: 
	 
	
Message-ID: <59922ab5-f8c9-429f-b1ea-9b1418aa6b71@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 28, 9:55?pm, Chris Rebert  wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 12:00 PM, vsoler wrote:
> > On Aug 28, 8:58?pm, vsoler  wrote:
> >> Everything that I see in IDLE is in black.
>
> >> I have tried to add colors, without success.
>
> >> I've tried: ?/Options/Configure IDLE/Highlighting/IDLE Classic
>
> > Couldn't finish writing... ? sorry
> > -----------------------------------
>
> > Everything that I see in IDLE is in black.
>
> > I have tried to add colors, without success.
>
> > I've tried: ?/Options/Configure IDLE/Highlighting/IDLE Classic
>
> > However, everything remains black. Any help is highly appreciated
>
> What OS are you on?
>
> - Chris

Windows XP


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Aug 28 17:42:04 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:42:04 -0400
Subject: Overriding iadd for dictionary like objects
In-Reply-To: 
References: 		
		<21e57363-4e92-41cb-9907-5aef96ad0a6e@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Carl Banks wrote:

> I don't think it needs a syntax for that, but I'm not so sure a method
> to modify a value in place with a single key lookup wouldn't
> occasioanally be useful.

Augmented assignment does that.

> 
> For instance:
> 
>    def increment(value):
>        return value+1
>    d = { 'a': 1 }
>    d.apply_to_value('a',increment)
>    print d
> 
> and d['a'] would be 2.  The difference is that only one lookup
> occurs.

Like this?
 >>> d={'a': 2}
 >>> d['a'] += 2
 >>> d['a']
4

This does not cover all replacements, but certainly the most common.

[snip]
> As a workaround, if lookups are expensive,

But they are not. Because (C)Python is heavily based on dict name lookup 
for builtins and global names and attributes, as well as overt dict 
lookup, must effort has gone into optimizing dict lookup.

 > you can add

something even slower ;-).  In particular, a method lookup + method 
call, as you suggest above.

One can always avoid calculating the key object twice if that is expensive.

Terry Jan Reedy



From darcy at druid.net  Fri Aug 28 17:48:57 2009
From: darcy at druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:48:57 -0400
Subject: cgi and POST
In-Reply-To: <4A98454D.6050006@seehart.com>
References: <4A98454D.6050006@seehart.com>
Message-ID: <20090828174857.843a4da2.darcy@druid.net>

On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:59:57 -0700
Ken Seehart  wrote:
> Using cgi, how do I get the /data /(not the uri arguments) originating 
> from a POST that did not originate from a form.

You don't care where it came from.  Just treat it exactly as if it came
from a form.

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain          |  Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
+1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.


From saimapk81 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 17:49:58 2009
From: saimapk81 at gmail.com (saima81)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 14:49:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: "BOLLYWOOD GIRLS" ON www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com "BOLLYWOOD 
	ROMANTIC SCENES" www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com "BOLLYWOOD WALLPAPERS" 
	www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com "BOLLYWOOD PICTURES"
	www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com "BOLLYWOOD SCENES" Options
Message-ID: <83e09538-4098-4f19-8164-f3a4c4702e32@u20g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

"BOLLYWOOD GIRLS" ON www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com "BOLLYWOOD
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From robert.kern at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 18:13:19 2009
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:13:19 -0500
Subject: Overriding iadd for dictionary like objects
In-Reply-To: 
References: 				<21e57363-4e92-41cb-9907-5aef96ad0a6e@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>	
	
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-28 16:42 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:
> Carl Banks wrote:
>
>> I don't think it needs a syntax for that, but I'm not so sure a method
>> to modify a value in place with a single key lookup wouldn't
>> occasioanally be useful.
>
> Augmented assignment does that.

No, it uses one __getitem__ and one __setitem__ thus two key lookups.

>> For instance:
>>
>> def increment(value):
>> return value+1
>> d = { 'a': 1 }
>> d.apply_to_value('a',increment)
>> print d
>>
>> and d['a'] would be 2. The difference is that only one lookup
>> occurs.
>
> Like this?
>  >>> d={'a': 2}
>  >>> d['a'] += 2
>  >>> d['a']
> 4
>
> This does not cover all replacements, but certainly the most common.

Take look farther up in the thread for the actual point at issue. The OP knows 
that augmented assignment works for the common cases. He wants to override the 
behavior on the container to handle some uncommon cases, and this is not 
possible because Python breaks up the operation into three orthogonal actions.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From hkh00001 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 18:19:35 2009
From: hkh00001 at gmail.com (qwe rty)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:19:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: IDE for python similar to visual basic
Message-ID: <2a17396c-4d6d-4cb0-a314-208054a2f774@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

i have been searching for am IDE for python that is similar to Visual
Basic but had no luck.shall you help me please?


From fasteliteprogrammer at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 28 18:22:47 2009
From: fasteliteprogrammer at yahoo.com (Craig)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:22:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: IDE for python similar to visual basic
In-Reply-To: <2a17396c-4d6d-4cb0-a314-208054a2f774@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <504063.99893.qm@web36502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Try wingware i have it and i like it.

--- On Fri, 8/28/09, qwe rty  wrote:

> From: qwe rty 
> Subject: IDE for python similar to visual basic
> To: python-list at python.org
> Date: Friday, August 28, 2009, 5:19 PM
> i have been searching for am IDE for
> python that is similar to Visual
> Basic but had no luck.shall you help me please?
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 


      


From josefg at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 18:25:13 2009
From: josefg at gmail.com (josef)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:25:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Object Reference question
References: <2dcf41c3-6623-48d9-bb74-97f753088479@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<9feee13c-117e-4806-b238-e4152a68adfb@18g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 27, 1:35?pm, Ethan Furman  wrote:
> josef wrote:
> > Thanks to everyone who responded.
>
> > I will be going with some sort of a = MyClass(name = 'a') format. It's
> > the Python way.
>
> > For me, it was very hard to accept that EVERYTHING is an object
> > reference. And that there are no object reference names, just string
> > entries in dictionaries. But I think it all makes sense now.
>
> > Thanks again,
>
> > Josef
>
> My apologies if I missed it, but what *exactly* are you planning on
> doing with your 'name' attribute? ?From the posts I've seen so far, I
> think you are only setting yourself up for failure.
>
> ~Ethan~

I'm going to use it for printing purposes. dk = MyClass(name='dk')
When I need a name dk.name. There will only ever be one dk defined.

Does that read like I'm setting myself up for failure?


From hkh00001 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 18:37:46 2009
From: hkh00001 at gmail.com (qwe rty)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:37:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: What python can NOT do?
Message-ID: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

i know that an interpreted language like python can't be used to make
an operating system or system drivers.

what else can NOT be done in python? what are the limitations of the
language?


From thudfoo at opensuse.us  Fri Aug 28 18:39:28 2009
From: thudfoo at opensuse.us (member thudfoo)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:39:28 -0700
Subject: [Tutor] Sending an email alert
In-Reply-To: <000001ca2811$cb320b10$61962130$@org>
References: <000001ca2811$cb320b10$61962130$@org>
Message-ID: <3d881a310908281539k42b92449p804575eac3cd6e7@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 12:00 PM, Marc  wrote:
[...]
> ??? s = smtplib.SMTP('smtp.marcd.org')
>
> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'SMTP'
>
>
>
> The code I am trying to use is:
>
>
>
> import smtplib
>
[...]

Make sure you do not have a file called "smtplib.py" on the your python path:

put this statement after "import smtplib":

    print smtplib.__file__

in order to find out what "smtplib" is being imported.

HTH
> _______________________________________________
> Tutor maillist ?- ?Tutor at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
>


From hkh00001 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 18:43:51 2009
From: hkh00001 at gmail.com (qwe rty)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:43:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: IDE for python similar to visual basic
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 29, 1:22?am, Craig  wrote:
> Try wingware i have it and i like it.
>
> --- On Fri, 8/28/09, qwe rty  wrote:
>
> > From: qwe rty 
> > Subject: IDE for python similar to visual basic
> > To: python-l... at python.org
> > Date: Friday, August 28, 2009, 5:19 PM
> > i have been searching for am IDE for
> > python that is similar to Visual
> > Basic but had no luck.shall you help me please?
> > --
> >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>

OMG, it has no visual designer !!


From mark at markroseman.com  Fri Aug 28 18:48:35 2009
From: mark at markroseman.com (Mark Roseman)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 16:48:35 -0600
Subject: An assessment of Tkinter and IDLE
References: <55a0833d-3f1f-402a-8eb7-cb4b7861cce5@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	
	<1010dd16-fa92-46b6-8391-b8a701704472@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

r  wrote:
> On Aug 28, 11:12?am, Mark Roseman  wrote:
> > Would it be useful to link to this from the main Python Tkinter
> > documentation?
> 
> Thanks Mark, but i would hate to see more links to TCL code in the
> python docs. Whats the use of Tkinter if the docs are in TCL. 

The www.tkdocs.com site is 'language neutral' - currently the tutorial 
covers Tcl, Perl, Ruby and yes Python, and allows you to switch between 
any of those languages (or show all of them).


From abecedarian314159 at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 28 18:51:10 2009
From: abecedarian314159 at yahoo.com (William)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:51:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: IDE for python similar to visual basic
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <846470.11833.qm@web110601.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

For visual designers, you may try:
QTDesigner with PyQt
or WxForms or WxGlade or BoaConstructor with WxPython


It's not like VB.NET where you can put in callbacks write after doing layout, but some prefer the above designers to hand coding guis.? 

Good luck,
William

--- On Fri, 8/28/09, qwe rty  wrote:

From: qwe rty 
Subject: Re: IDE for python similar to visual basic
To: python-list at python.org
Date: Friday, August 28, 2009, 6:43 PM

On Aug 29, 1:22?am, Craig  wrote:
> Try wingware i have it and i like it.
>
> --- On Fri, 8/28/09, qwe rty  wrote:
>
> > From: qwe rty 
> > Subject: IDE for python similar to visual basic
> > To: python-l... at python.org
> > Date: Friday, August 28, 2009, 5:19 PM
> > i have been searching for am IDE for
> > python that is similar to Visual
> > Basic but had no luck.shall you help me please?
> > --
> >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>

OMG, it has no visual designer !!
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



      
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From stef.mientki at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 18:51:12 2009
From: stef.mientki at gmail.com (Stef Mientki)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 00:51:12 +0200
Subject: IDE for python similar to visual basic
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <4A985F60.5060301@gmail.com>

qwe rty wrote:
> On Aug 29, 1:22 am, Craig  wrote:
>   
>> Try wingware i have it and i like it.
>>
>> --- On Fri, 8/28/09, qwe rty  wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> From: qwe rty 
>>> Subject: IDE for python similar to visual basic
>>> To: python-l... at python.org
>>> Date: Friday, August 28, 2009, 5:19 PM
>>> i have been searching for am IDE for
>>> python that is similar to Visual
>>> Basic but had no luck.shall you help me please?
>>> --
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>>       
>>     
>
> OMG, it has no visual designer !!
>   
That was my first reaction too.
and  I was even used to a better visual designer: Delphi ;-)
I'm now very happy and design faster in wxPython (with GUI-support) than 
in Delphi ;-)

cheers,
Stef


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 19:02:00 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 16:02:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Overriding iadd for dictionary like objects
References: 
	
	 
	
	<21e57363-4e92-41cb-9907-5aef96ad0a6e@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	 
	
Message-ID: <58e91734-d03f-417c-89b1-f2717c3a9181@l5g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 28, 2:42?pm, Terry Reedy  wrote:
> Carl Banks wrote:
> > I don't think it needs a syntax for that, but I'm not so sure a method
> > to modify a value in place with a single key lookup wouldn't
> > occasioanally be useful.
>
> Augmented assignment does that.

Internally uses two lookups, one for getting, and one for setting.  I
think this is an unavoidable given Python's semantics.  Look at the
traceback:


>>> def x():
...     d['a'] += 1
...
>>> dis.dis(x)
  2           0 LOAD_GLOBAL              0 (d)
              3 LOAD_CONST               1 ('a')
              6 DUP_TOPX                 2
              9 BINARY_SUBSCR
             10 LOAD_CONST               2 (1)
             13 INPLACE_ADD
             14 ROT_THREE
             15 STORE_SUBSCR
             16 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
             19 RETURN_VALUE


> > As a workaround, if lookups are expensive,
>
> But they are not. Because (C)Python is heavily based on dict name lookup
> for builtins and global names and attributes, as well as overt dict
> lookup, must effort has gone into optimizing dict lookup.

The actual lookup algorithm Python dicts use is well-optimized, yes,
but the dict could contain keys that have expensive comparison and
hash-code calculation, in which case lookup is going to be slow.


Carl Banks


From nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 19:02:33 2009
From: nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 23:02:33 GMT
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: <00216447$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 	<87d46ok948.fsf@benfinney.id.au>		<02a0b085$0$30337$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	
	<00216447$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

Steven D'Aprano:

> Obviously I can't speak for Ken Thompson's motivation in creating this 
> feature, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't to save typing or space on 
> punchcards.

   The original implementation of UNIX was on a PDP-7 which was an
18-bit machine. Octal = 3 bits at a a time which evenly divides an
18-bit word whereas the 4 bits of hexadecimal do not. Early
implementations of B were (according to Wikipedia) on the PDP-7, PDP-11
(a 16-bit machine) and Honeywell 36-bit mainframes.

   Octal was widely used on the PDP-11. DEC's PDP-11 Assembler defaulted
to octal and didn't even support hexadecimal. The prefixes used in
MACRO-11 for explicit radixes were ^D, ^O, and ^B.
http://computer-refuge.org/bitsavers/pdf/dec/pdp11/rsx11/RSX11M_V2/DEC-11-OIMRA-A-D_MACRO_75.pdf

   Neil


From ken at seehart.com  Fri Aug 28 19:11:20 2009
From: ken at seehart.com (Ken Seehart)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 16:11:20 -0700
Subject: cgi and POST
In-Reply-To: <20090828174857.843a4da2.darcy@druid.net>
References: <4A98454D.6050006@seehart.com>
	<20090828174857.843a4da2.darcy@druid.net>
Message-ID: <4A986418.6000600@seehart.com>

D'Arcy J.M. Cain wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:59:57 -0700
> Ken Seehart  wrote:
>   
>> Using cgi, how do I get the /data /(not the uri arguments) originating 
>> from a POST that did not originate from a form.
>>     
>
> You don't care where it came from.  Just treat it exactly as if it came
> from a form.
>   
Thanks.  Anyway, the issue was that I made a mistake the urllib side of 
things.
Problem solved.

Ken



From lists at cheimes.de  Fri Aug 28 19:21:32 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 01:21:32 +0200
Subject: What python can NOT do?
In-Reply-To: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

qwe rty wrote:
> i know that an interpreted language like python can't be used to make
> an operating system or system drivers.
> 
> what else can NOT be done in python? what are the limitations of the
> language?

Python is a high level language. It's not designed for low level stuff
like bit operations or direct hardware access. However it can be used as
a glue language for low level code written in C or ASM.

Christian



From rt8396 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 19:27:27 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 16:27:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Colors on IDLE
References: 
	 
	
	<59922ab5-f8c9-429f-b1ea-9b1418aa6b71@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8d5d283f-b0bd-4e16-97c7-d2de1a148cae@l35g2000vba.googlegroups.com>


Have you tried saving the files as MYScriptName.py? notice the py
extension, very important ;)


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 19:33:38 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 16:33:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: why python got less developers ?
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <1b6492ae-ee59-4a09-a35a-b0db79b5db81@s13g2000yql.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 28, 10:36?am, jfabi... at yolo.com wrote:
(snip)
> I'm inclined to agreed. ?But in recent years we lost a number of developers
> to Ruby. ?I don't know but I doubt Ruby has a marketing budget. ?So in my
> mind it is difficult for me to blame just the lack of marketing dollars for
> the lost. ?

Yes probably have since you can write Ruby code that almost mimics
Python code, well except for that annoying "end" statement ;). But i
think Ruby attracts more perl-heads and lispers anyhow. And i really
doubt we want to caterer to that bunch *wink*.

I shudder when i imagine a world without Python's simplistic beauty,
it is a very scary thought...


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 19:56:44 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 16:56:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: What python can NOT do?
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8b9073d6-b539-4f0c-b26b-ecf9fd014a87@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 28, 5:37?pm, qwe rty  wrote:
> what else can NOT be done in python? what are the limitations of the
> language?

Why would you even want to know what can't be done? What is it that
you would like to do with Python? If you want a one size fits all
language you may be looking for a very long time...



From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Fri Aug 28 20:05:40 2009
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 19:05:40 -0500
Subject: What python can NOT do?
In-Reply-To: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A9870D4.8070800@tim.thechases.com>

qwe rty wrote:
> i know that an interpreted language like python can't be used to make
> an operating system or system drivers.

As long as you are willing to write the OS hooks in C, you can 
write the userspace device drivers in Python:

https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/programming-9/how-to-write-device-driver-program-using-python-in-linux-687277/

Since Python is Turing-complete, there's no reason a whole OS 
couldn't be authored in Python.

> what else can NOT be done in python? what are the limitations of the
> language?

I understand there's a little trouble getting Python to prove 
that P=NP  You'll also find that it only comes close to solving 
the unrestricted three-body problem and the Traveling Salesman 
problem is still limited to fallible heuristics and searching the 
entire solution set in better than O(2**n) time.

-tkc






From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Aug 28 20:06:54 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 28 Aug 2009 17:06:54 -0700
Subject: why python got less developers ?
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
  wrote:
>Chris Rebert wrote:
>> On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Deep_Feelings
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> python got relatively fewer numbers of developers than other high
>>> level languages like .NET , java .. etc ??why ?
>> 
>> We lack Sun and Microsoft's massive marketing departments. :)
>
>I'm inclined to agreed.  But in recent years we lost a number of developers
>to Ruby.  

Cite?  I mean, I'm sure it's not zero, but "a number" implies quite a bit
more than zero, which I'm inclined to doubt without good evidence.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I support family values -- Addams family values" --www.nancybuttons.com


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 20:11:08 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:11:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: An assessment of Tkinter and IDLE
References: <55a0833d-3f1f-402a-8eb7-cb4b7861cce5@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	
	<1010dd16-fa92-46b6-8391-b8a701704472@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <827effaa-d0f7-4142-b4b9-6f9f8e0e7963@e34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 28, 5:48?pm, Mark Roseman  wrote:
(snip)
> Thewww.tkdocs.comsite is 'language neutral' - currently the tutorial
> covers Tcl, Perl, Ruby and yes Python, and allows you to switch between
> any of those languages (or show all of them).

True, however the coverage is incomplete. I would back this site if we
can get a complete coverage of all widgets in the Python language.

+0.1


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Fri Aug 28 20:14:39 2009
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 19:14:39 -0500
Subject: What python can NOT do?
In-Reply-To: <4A9870D4.8070800@tim.thechases.com>
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4A9870D4.8070800@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <4A9872EF.2000708@tim.thechases.com>

>> what else can NOT be done in python? what are the limitations of the
>> language?
> 
> I understand there's a little trouble getting Python to prove 
> that P=NP  You'll also find that it only comes close to solving 
> the unrestricted three-body problem and the Traveling Salesman 
> problem is still limited to fallible heuristics and searching the 
> entire solution set in better than O(2**n) time.

I forgot about solving the Spam problem entirely.  And answering 
poorly worded/thought-out questions on the internet...

I've also been sorely disappointed by Python's ability to make a 
good chocolate cream silk pie.

-tkc








From hkh00001 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 20:26:06 2009
From: hkh00001 at gmail.com (qwe rty)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:26:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: What python can NOT do?
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4A9870D4.8070800@tim.thechases.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 29, 3:14?am, Tim Chase  wrote:
> >> what else can NOT be done in python? what are the limitations of the
> >> language?
>
> > I understand there's a little trouble getting Python to prove
> > that P=NP ?You'll also find that it only comes close to solving
> > the unrestricted three-body problem and the Traveling Salesman
> > problem is still limited to fallible heuristics and searching the
> > entire solution set in better than O(2**n) time.
>
> I forgot about solving the Spam problem entirely. ?And answering
> poorly worded/thought-out questions on the internet...
>
> I've also been sorely disappointed by Python's ability to make a
> good chocolate cream silk pie.
>
> -tkc

if you don't know the answer please don't reply


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 20:31:22 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:31:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: What python can NOT do?
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 28, 7:05?pm, Tim Chase  wrote:
(snip)
> Since Python is Turing-complete, there's no reason a whole OS
> couldn't be authored in Python.

Yes, and one could go from NY to LA on a unicycle but would one really
want to? Talk about some redass and blueballs! *yikes*

Yes, if i have learned anything in my life, i can say there are
absolutely no boundaries to what humans can achieve short the limit of
their own imagination and the ever fading remainder of ones life.


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Fri Aug 28 20:47:51 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:47:51 -0700
Subject: copy construtor question
In-Reply-To: <613204.64791.qm@web53105.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <613204.64791.qm@web53105.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908281747q347d849cx3e8abe2ebe94a120@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 11:38 AM, xiaosong xia wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I am trying to define a class with copy constructor as following:
>
> class test:
>
> ???? def __init__(self, s=None):
>
> ????????? self=s

Python uses call-by-object
(http://effbot.org/zone/call-by-object.htm), so reassigning `self`
does not affect the object outside of the body of the method. It is
(practically) impossible to reassign `self` in the way and with the
effect you're trying to do; that is, you never change what `self`
points to from the outside world's perspective, you can only modify
the object it already points at.


> 1. Can 'self ' be a class attribute?

Doing this would make no sense.

> 2. How to make a copy constructor?

Since Python lacks overloading based on parameter types, generally one
does it the other way around and instead provides a method that
produces a copy of the object. For example:

class Point(object):
    def __init__(self, x, y):
        self. x = x
        self.y = y

    def copy(self):
        return Point(self.x, self.y)

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Aug 28 21:17:35 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 29 Aug 2009 01:17:35 GMT
Subject: What python can NOT do?
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0022052b$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:37:46 -0700, qwe rty wrote:

> i know that an interpreted language like python 

Languages are neither interpreted nor compiled. *Implementations* are 
interpreted or compiled.

Perl has only one implementation, which is interpreted (as far as I 
know); Java has a number of implementations, some of which compile to 
byte-code, some compile to machine-code. There are C interpreters as well 
as C compilers. And languages like Forth have an unusual programming 
model which doesn't easily match the conventional interpreted/compiled 
distinction.

Python has a number of implementations, all of which are compiled to byte-
code, like early Java. None are purely interpreted; none are compiled to 
machine-code, although there are add-ons to CPython which will compile 
most Python code to machine-code. Some day, Python may include 
implementations which compile directly to machine-code.


> can't be used to make an operating system or system drivers.

With existing Python implementations, it would be difficult to write an 
OS, because the implementations assume there is already an operating 
system available to handle things like memory and disk IO. So before you 
could write an OS in Python, you would need to write a new Python 
implementation. However, you could easily write a "virtual OS" in Python 
which sat on top of the regular OS.

Device drivers would be less difficult, but performance may be slow 
compared to drivers written in (say) C.

Boot loaders are another type of software which would be impractical to 
write in existing Python implementations.


> what else can NOT be done in python? what are the limitations of the
> language?

As a language, Python has no theoretical limits -- it is Turing Complete, 
which means anything you can do in C, Java, Lisp, or any other Turing 
Complete language, you could do in Python -- with sufficient effort, and 
provided you don't care about efficiency.

In practice, though, we *do* care about efficiency, and about the effort 
required to write the program in the first case. In practical terms, 
Python the language makes most things easy to write but slower to run, so 
there are very few applications which couldn't be written in Python.

A few things are more difficult than others. One of the hardest things to 
do is to "sandbox" some arbitrary Python code from an untrusted source 
and execute it in a restricted environment. 

In practical terms, Python will let you write nearly any sort of program 
you want, provided absolute performance isn't your provided. (To put it 
another way, Python code is rarely "the fastest", but it is usually "fast 
enough".) If performance is too slow, Python is an excellent "glue" 
language, letting you write the bulk of your program in Python for ease, 
the performance-critical parts in C for speed.

Some practical restrictions... if you are writing a web app, some hosting 
providers don't provide access to Python on their webserver, so you're 
limited to using whatever languages they provide, or finding another 
provider.

All existing Python implementations require a minimum amount of memory to 
operate. This is relatively high, so you probably couldn't use Python on 
a device where you only had (say) 64K of memory. There's no Python 
implementation for your ancient Mac Plus or Commodore 64, and there 
probably never will be. Python the language is based on an execution 
model with relatively high overhead, so even if you wrote an 
implementation for such ancient machines, you probably couldn't do much 
with it.

Existing Python implementations don't give you direct access to hardware, 
and bit-manipulation has a lot of overhead in Python. Numerical 
calculations (e.g. scientific array calculations) also suffer from 
overhead, which is barely noticeable if you're doing a few thousand 
calculations, but if you're doing a few tens of millions may be a little 
slow. For these, you should use Python as an interface to numeric 
libraries written in C, like Scipy and Numpy.



-- 
Steven


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Aug 28 21:25:57 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 28 Aug 2009 18:25:57 -0700
Subject: variables of the class are not available as default values?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
Chris Rebert   wrote:
>
>class foo:
>    def __init__(self, maxvalue):
>        self.maxvalue =3D maxvalue
>        self.value =3D 0
>
>    def put(self, value=3DNone):
>        self.value =3D self.value if value is None else value

Stylistic nit:

I'd make that

        self.value = value if value is not None else self.value

The reason is that the "primary" value should go first.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I support family values -- Addams family values" --www.nancybuttons.com


From bcb at undisclosedlocation.net  Fri Aug 28 21:29:31 2009
From: bcb at undisclosedlocation.net (Bruce C. Baker)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 20:29:31 -0500
Subject: What python can NOT do?
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1v%lm.174048$zq1.37846@newsfe22.iad>


"qwe rty"  wrote in message 
news:00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f at q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
>i know that an interpreted language like python can't be used to make
> an operating system or system drivers.
>
> what else can NOT be done in python? what are the limitations of the
> language?

It's a floor wax and a dessert topping too! :-)




From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Fri Aug 28 21:32:17 2009
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 20:32:17 -0500
Subject: What python can NOT do?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	<4A9870D4.8070800@tim.thechases.com>	
	
Message-ID: <4A988521.7070005@tim.thechases.com>

qwe rty wrote:
> On Aug 29, 3:14 am, Tim Chase  wrote:
>>>> what else can NOT be done in python? what are the limitations of the
>>>> language?
>>> I understand there's a little trouble getting Python to prove
>>> that P=NP  You'll also find that it only comes close to solving
>>> the unrestricted three-body problem and the Traveling Salesman
>>> problem is still limited to fallible heuristics and searching the
>>> entire solution set in better than O(2**n) time.
>> I forgot about solving the Spam problem entirely.  And answering
>> poorly worded/thought-out questions on the internet...
>>
>> I've also been sorely disappointed by Python's ability to make a
>> good chocolate cream silk pie.
> 
> if you don't know the answer please don't reply

I'm not sure you understand -- Being a Turing complete language, 
anything you can do in any other language, you can do in Python. 
  As "r" observed, it might not be a pleasant experience (though 
there are a lot of things I'd rather do in Python than in C or 
Assembly) but certainly doable.

So clearly the issue resides in your nonsensical question.  You 
asked for things you can't do with Python so I listed some.  The 
things you can't do in Python are things you can't do in any 
other language either.  To turn your snark on end, "If you can't 
post a sensible question, please don't post in the first place".

But this is usenet, and Python can't solve the problem of 
nonsensical questions posted on usenet. :-/

-tkc





From b1540457 at tyldd.com  Fri Aug 28 21:43:23 2009
From: b1540457 at tyldd.com (Anny Mous)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 11:43:23 +1000
Subject: Transforming a str to an operator
References: 
	<87skfcblo3.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<91126ac3-e7fe-4b7a-a37d-d1e60beaa278@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

r wrote:

> Abviously the OP is a python baby noob and casting your irrational
> fear (and many others irrational fears) of eval 

It isn't irrational to have a healthy caution towards eval.

Apart from the security issues, running code in eval takes a massive
performance hit. Its about ten times slower to run eval("x+1") than to run
x+1 directly.



> at him is akin to 
> tales of Chupacabras running a muck in the jungle sucking the blood
> from live goats in the twilight hours. I use eval all the time and
> quite love it.

LOL I'm not surprised.


> This is nothing more than a throw away academic exercise that will
> serve no useful purpose for him in the future, 

What makes you think that learning to program well in Python is a throw-away
exercise of no useful purpose? I'm sure the code itself will be thrown away
and forgotten, but it has a very important purpose: for the OP to learn
good programming skills. Looks like you want him to learn bad skills, then
spend the rest of his life trying to unlearn them.


> but serves the very 
> useful purpose now of establishing an IO between the student and
> Python interpretor. I'll bet most your example (albeit a good example)
> flew miles above his head into la-la land.

How insulting. Is there anything that gave you the impression the OP was
stupid?


> The OP has plenty of time to learn about malicious input and
> protecting against it, right now the fundamentals are well...
> fundamental :)

When would you recommend he learns? When his web app is hijacked by
gangsters in Russia and the personal details and financial records of fifty
thousand people stolen? Protecting against malicious input *IS*
fundamental.





From nobody at nowhere.com  Fri Aug 28 21:50:20 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 02:50:20 +0100
Subject: [OT] How do I reply to a thread by sending a message
	to	python-list@python.org
References: <20090827073102.293C91DF2@ctb-mesg8.saix.net>
	<4A964C3B.8090206@ieee.org>
	
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 05:47:50 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote:

>> I use Thunderbird, and treat the list as ordinary mail.  I use 
>> reply-all, and it seems to do the right thing.  Or at least if I'm 
>> breaking threads, nobody has pointed it out to me yet.
> 
> reply-all may send duplicate messages to the author. Not sure of this list.

If the author doesn't want duplicate replies, they would normally set
a Reply-To header which points to the list.

Some listservs provide an option to suppress duplicates, i.e. a message
isn't sent if the recipient is listed in the To/CC headers. Enabling this
option is a bad idea if you're stuck behind an aggressive spam filter:
the listserv only knows whether you're listed as a recipient; it can't
know whether you actually got the message.



From nobody at nowhere.com  Fri Aug 28 22:06:03 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 03:06:03 +0100
Subject: Query screen resolution?
References: <7d57e7c2-39bf-4515-8642-6bcbeba0492c@u16g2000pru.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 11:13:06 -0700, AK Eric wrote:

> Thought this would be easy, maybe I'm missing something :)  Trying to
> query the x,y resolution of my screen.  I've seen this available
> through http://python.net/crew/mhammond/win32/ :
> 
> from win32api import GetSystemMetrics
> print "width =", GetSystemMetrics (0)
> print "height =",GetSystemMetrics (1)
> 
> But I was hoping for something built-in, and something non-OS
> specific.  Is that available?  Would be nice to detect for multiple
> monitors as well, but I'm probably asking too much :)

Your question is based upon the notion that "the screen" is a meaningful
concept. Once you move away from Windows (and systems which intentionally
try to be like Windows), that's no longer true.

E.g. if the program is being run on a terminal, the screen size is
measured in characters, not pixels (80x25 would be a reasonable size). If
the program is being run as a cron job or CGI script, there is no screen.

OTOH, if the system has the X libraries installed, there are a practically
unlimited number of X displays which you could connect to, provided that
you have the appropriate authentication credentials.



From nobody at nowhere.com  Fri Aug 28 22:10:18 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 03:10:18 +0100
Subject: What python can NOT do?
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:31:22 -0700, r wrote:

>> Since Python is Turing-complete, there's no reason a whole OS
>> couldn't be authored in Python.
> 
> Yes, and one could go from NY to LA on a unicycle but would one really
> want to? Talk about some redass and blueballs! *yikes*
> 
> Yes, if i have learned anything in my life, i can say there are
> absolutely no boundaries to what humans can achieve short the limit of
> their own imagination and the ever fading remainder of ones life.

Well, other than writing a program to determine whether a program in a
Turing-complete language will terminate on some input, or devising a
formal system which is sound, complete, and able to express its own
metatheory, or ...

Some things are actually impossible.



From hkh00001 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 22:10:30 2009
From: hkh00001 at gmail.com (qwe rty)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 19:10:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: What python can NOT do?
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4A9870D4.8070800@tim.thechases.com>
	 
	 
	
Message-ID: 


> > if you don't know the answer please don't reply
>
> I'm not sure you understand -- Being a Turing complete language,
> anything you can do in any other language, you can do in Python.
> ? As "r" observed, it might not be a pleasant experience (though
> there are a lot of things I'd rather do in Python than in C or
> Assembly) but certainly doable.
>
> So clearly the issue resides in your nonsensical question. ?You
> asked for things you can't do with Python so I listed some. ?The
> things you can't do in Python are things you can't do in any
> other language either. ?To turn your snark on end, "If you can't
> post a sensible question, please don't post in the first place".
>
> But this is usenet, and Python can't solve the problem of
> nonsensical questions posted on usenet. :-/
>
> -tkc

i am free to post , you are free to ignore



From hkh00001 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 22:11:24 2009
From: hkh00001 at gmail.com (qwe rty)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 19:11:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: What python can NOT do?
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<0022052b$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <380e1617-cd42-4b9d-820a-90d226751915@b18g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 29, 4:17?am, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:37:46 -0700, qwe rty wrote:
> > i know that an interpreted language like python
>
> Languages are neither interpreted nor compiled. *Implementations* are
> interpreted or compiled.
>
> Perl has only one implementation, which is interpreted (as far as I
> know); Java has a number of implementations, some of which compile to
> byte-code, some compile to machine-code. There are C interpreters as well
> as C compilers. And languages like Forth have an unusual programming
> model which doesn't easily match the conventional interpreted/compiled
> distinction.
>
> Python has a number of implementations, all of which are compiled to byte-
> code, like early Java. None are purely interpreted; none are compiled to
> machine-code, although there are add-ons to CPython which will compile
> most Python code to machine-code. Some day, Python may include
> implementations which compile directly to machine-code.
>
> > can't be used to make an operating system or system drivers.
>
> With existing Python implementations, it would be difficult to write an
> OS, because the implementations assume there is already an operating
> system available to handle things like memory and disk IO. So before you
> could write an OS in Python, you would need to write a new Python
> implementation. However, you could easily write a "virtual OS" in Python
> which sat on top of the regular OS.
>
> Device drivers would be less difficult, but performance may be slow
> compared to drivers written in (say) C.
>
> Boot loaders are another type of software which would be impractical to
> write in existing Python implementations.
>
> > what else can NOT be done in python? what are the limitations of the
> > language?
>
> As a language, Python has no theoretical limits -- it is Turing Complete,
> which means anything you can do in C, Java, Lisp, or any other Turing
> Complete language, you could do in Python -- with sufficient effort, and
> provided you don't care about efficiency.
>
> In practice, though, we *do* care about efficiency, and about the effort
> required to write the program in the first case. In practical terms,
> Python the language makes most things easy to write but slower to run, so
> there are very few applications which couldn't be written in Python.
>
> A few things are more difficult than others. One of the hardest things to
> do is to "sandbox" some arbitrary Python code from an untrusted source
> and execute it in a restricted environment.
>
> In practical terms, Python will let you write nearly any sort of program
> you want, provided absolute performance isn't your provided. (To put it
> another way, Python code is rarely "the fastest", but it is usually "fast
> enough".) If performance is too slow, Python is an excellent "glue"
> language, letting you write the bulk of your program in Python for ease,
> the performance-critical parts in C for speed.
>
> Some practical restrictions... if you are writing a web app, some hosting
> providers don't provide access to Python on their webserver, so you're
> limited to using whatever languages they provide, or finding another
> provider.
>
> All existing Python implementations require a minimum amount of memory to
> operate. This is relatively high, so you probably couldn't use Python on
> a device where you only had (say) 64K of memory. There's no Python
> implementation for your ancient Mac Plus or Commodore 64, and there
> probably never will be. Python the language is based on an execution
> model with relatively high overhead, so even if you wrote an
> implementation for such ancient machines, you probably couldn't do much
> with it.
>
> Existing Python implementations don't give you direct access to hardware,
> and bit-manipulation has a lot of overhead in Python. Numerical
> calculations (e.g. scientific array calculations) also suffer from
> overhead, which is barely noticeable if you're doing a few thousand
> calculations, but if you're doing a few tens of millions may be a little
> slow. For these, you should use Python as an interface to numeric
> libraries written in C, like Scipy and Numpy.
>
> --
> Steven

thank you very much ,THIS is the sort of answer i wanted


From nobody at nowhere.com  Fri Aug 28 22:11:48 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 03:11:48 +0100
Subject: What python can NOT do?
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4A9870D4.8070800@tim.thechases.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:26:06 -0700, qwe rty wrote:

> if you don't know the answer please don't reply

If you don't understand the question, don't post it in the first place.



From hkh00001 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 22:37:23 2009
From: hkh00001 at gmail.com (qwe rty)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 19:37:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: What python can NOT do?
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4A9870D4.8070800@tim.thechases.com>
	 
	 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 29, 5:11?am, Nobody  wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:26:06 -0700, qwe rty wrote:
> > if you don't know the answer please don't reply
>
> If you don't understand the question, don't post it in the first place.

don't be so angry ,not good for your health


From warpcat at sbcglobal.net  Fri Aug 28 23:15:57 2009
From: warpcat at sbcglobal.net (Warpcat)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 20:15:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Query screen resolution?
References: <7d57e7c2-39bf-4515-8642-6bcbeba0492c@u16g2000pru.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <409bf880-4e4b-48f4-8cfc-ecacf262d782@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

> Your question is based upon the notion that "the screen" is a meaningful
> concept. Once you move away from Windows (and systems which intentionally
> try to be like Windows), that's no longer true.

Good points.  Always something I haven't thought of.  Ok so... let's
*presume* the user has a measurable screen on win\mac\linux\etc since
on any other OS they wouldn't be running the app....


From alan.isaac at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 23:36:12 2009
From: alan.isaac at gmail.com (Alan G Isaac)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 03:36:12 GMT
Subject: Select column from a list
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 8/28/2009 3:45 AM hoffik wrote:
> I'm quite new in Python and I have one question. I have a 2D matrix of
> values stored in list (3 columns, many rows). I wonder if I can select one
> column without having to go through the list with 'for' command.

Not quite what you asked but ...

>>> rows = [(1, 5, 9), (2, 6, 10), (3, 7, 11), (4, 8, 12)]
>>> cols = map(None,*rows)
>>> cols
[(1, 2, 3, 4), (5, 6, 7, 8), (9, 10, 11, 12)]

Now you can have any "column" you want.

Alan Isaac

PS You can also use imap if you prefer not to
create the list.


From rtomek at ceti.com.pl  Fri Aug 28 23:37:34 2009
From: rtomek at ceti.com.pl (Tomasz Rola)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 05:37:34 +0200
Subject: What python can NOT do?
In-Reply-To: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 28 Aug 2009, qwe rty wrote:

> i know that an interpreted language like python can't be used to make
> an operating system or system drivers.
> 
> what else can NOT be done in python? what are the limitations of the
> language?

Oh, my. And now everybody points at you this Turing-completeness. The 
issue, in my opinion, is not that something cannot be done. The truth 
about Turing-completeness is, I would say, you can do whatever but 
sometimes you will not because it would be too ugly. My private list of 
things that when implemented in Python would be ugly to the point of 
calling it difficult:

1. AMB operator - my very favourite. In one sentence, either language 
allows one to do it easily or one would not want to do it (in an ugly 
way).

http://www.randomhacks.net/articles/2005/10/11/amb-operator

After quite some googling I was finally able to locate sample 
implementation, but I cannot say ATM how well it works and if it is 
practical enough to use it in any of my programs. If time permits, I will 
try it, hopefully.

http://www.c2.com/cgi/wiki?AmbInPython

2. Changing the language from the inside.

Everybody can change the interpreter, right? But how about doing some 
bigger, maybe even fundamental change to the language by means offered by 
the language itself?

Example:

If Python had no object system, or if I wanted to implement one in 
different way (say, I would like to experiment or I would not want to wait 
for a new release). In some languages that interest me now, it is possible 
and practical, more or less. So it can sometimes backfire - what OO system 
should I choose for my next Scheme program, etc. Because there are few of 
them :-), all (? - I believe) implemented as a code library. Just install 
it and off you go, now you have OO programming. Actually, I don't use OO 
all that much recently (maybe I feel disapointed a bit, or something).

Also, I have read (but not checked it myself) that for some time Common 
Lisp had it's now-official CLOS distributed and tested in a form of 
library. Say, have they adopted OO with single inheritance as a part of CL 
ANSI standard - I would still be able to have OO with multiple 
inheritance. I would just have to download and install CLOS. No change to 
interpreter or compiler. From their point of view, CLOS would be just 
another library.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Lisp_Object_System

Judging by this code, introducing OO to the language is relatively easy:

http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/dorai/t-y-scheme/t-y-scheme-Z-H-14.html

It is not possible to alter Python in a minor way, I think. Something 
simpler than OO, like a new keyword or structures:

http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/dorai/t-y-scheme/t-y-scheme-Z-H-10.html
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/dorai/t-y-scheme/t-y-scheme-Z-H-11.html

Some readers could oppose the above by saying that Lisp's syntax is so 
primitive that it can be used to implement just any programming paradigm, 
so having it as a loadable code is not a big achievement. Well, it seems 
to me that Python has even simpler syntax or on par with Lisp family, 
so...

Some (perhaps other) readers could also say, that there is no need to 
extend Python. It already has sets and "yield" and... But some time ago it 
did not. As far as I can tell, it can be a bit too hard to go into 
"experimenting mode" with Python. Something like adding "yield" all but 
myself. It only takes few kilos of code for a working OO in another 
language, so how hard could such "yield" be? Well, in Python I probably 
wouldn't dare.

BTW I hope nobody's feeling have been hurt. This was meant to be 
informative, not offensive.

BTW2. As I said, these are _possible_ things (Turing complete language, 
and so on). But adding them would require some hard work and would produce 
ugly and/or fragile code, so I decided it could be easier to learn another 
language...

Regards,
Tomasz Rola

--
** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature.      **
** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home    **
** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened...      **
**                                                                 **
** Tomasz Rola          mailto:tomasz_rola at bigfoot.com             **


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Aug 28 23:41:12 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 28 Aug 2009 20:41:12 -0700
Subject: What python can NOT do?
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
qwe rty   wrote:
>
>> > if you don't know the answer please don't reply
>>
>> I'm not sure you understand -- Being a Turing complete language,
>> anything you can do in any other language, you can do in Python.
>> =A0 As "r" observed, it might not be a pleasant experience (though
>> there are a lot of things I'd rather do in Python than in C or
>> Assembly) but certainly doable.
>>
>> So clearly the issue resides in your nonsensical question. =A0You
>> asked for things you can't do with Python so I listed some. =A0The
>> things you can't do in Python are things you can't do in any
>> other language either. =A0To turn your snark on end, "If you can't
>> post a sensible question, please don't post in the first place".
>>
>> But this is usenet, and Python can't solve the problem of
>> nonsensical questions posted on usenet. :-/
>>
>> -tkc
>
>i am free to post , you are free to ignore

Well -- don't you think the same applies in reverse?  Remember that
Python is named after the comedy group Monty Python, and jokes are a
frequent occurrence on this group.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I support family values -- Addams family values" --www.nancybuttons.com


From sebouel at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 00:28:17 2009
From: sebouel at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=E9bastien_Ouellet?=)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 21:28:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: A lot of problem with pygame.mixer module!
References: 
Message-ID: 

I had the same problem and struggled through every solution posted on
the web. None actually helped but I discovered bbfreeze :
http://pypi.python.org/pypi/bbfreeze/
It works as well as py2exe and there are no problems with
pygame.mixer. It's easy to install and the example script at the end
of the page does the trick.

On 20 juil, 08:28, Alex  wrote:
> hi at all,
> As email object I 'm not be able to run my program when compiled with
> py2exe.
> Everythink ?works fine until I try to make an exe.
> After that, it crash and in the log:
>
> C:\dist\sponge.exe:97: RuntimeWarning: use mixer: DLL load failed: The
> specified module could not be found.
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? File "sponge.py", line 97, in 
> ? File "pygame\__init__.pyo", line 70, in __getattr__
> NotImplementedError: mixer module not available
>
> The code about pygame.mixer is only:
>
> pygame.mixer.init()
> music = pygame.mixer.Sound("popcorn.ogg")
> music.play()
>
> in the dist folder there is SDL_mixer.dll so...HOW can I solve this
> problem ??
> thanks in advance
> Alex
> Below my setup.py
>
> # py2exe setup program
> from distutils.core import setup
> import py2exe
> import pygame
> from modulefinder import Module
> #from pygame import mixer
> import ImageGrab
> import sys
> import os
> import Tkinter
> import glob, shutil
> sys.argv.append("py2exe")
>
> VERSION = '1.0'
> AUTHOR_NAME = 'Your Name'
> AUTHOR_EMAIL = 'your_em... at somewhere.com'
> AUTHOR_URL = "http://www.urlofyourgamesite.com/"
> PRODUCT_NAME = "Sponge"
> SCRIPT_MAIN = 'sponge.py'
> VERSIONSTRING = PRODUCT_NAME + " ALPHA " + VERSION
> ICONFILE = 'icon.ico'
>
> # Remove the build tree on exit automatically
> REMOVE_BUILD_ON_EXIT = True
>
> if os.path.exists('dist/'): shutil.rmtree('dist/')
>
> extra_files = [ ("",[ICONFILE,'WinLockDll.dll','popcorn.ogg']),
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?#("data",glob.glob(os.path.join('data','*.dat'))),
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?#("gfx",glob.glob(os.path.join('gfx','*.jpg'))),
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?#("gfx",glob.glob(os.path.join('gfx','*.png'))),
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?("fonts",glob.glob(os.path.join('fonts','*.ttf'))),
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?("music",glob.glob(os.path.join('music','*.ogg')))]
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?#("snd",glob.glob(os.path.join('snd','*.wav')))]
>
> # List of all modules to automatically exclude from distribution build
> # This gets rid of extra modules that aren't necessary for proper
> functioning of app
> # You should only put things in this list if you know exactly what you
> DON'T need
> # This has the benefit of drastically reducing the size of your dist
>
> MODULE_EXCLUDES =[
> 'email',
> 'AppKit',
> 'Foundation',
> 'bdb',
> 'difflib',
> 'tcl',
> #'Tkinter',
> #'Tkconstants',
> 'curses',
> 'distutils',
> 'setuptools',
> 'urllib',
> 'urllib2',
> 'urlparse',
> 'BaseHTTPServer',
> '_LWPCookieJar',
> '_MozillaCookieJar',
> 'ftplib',
> 'gopherlib',
> '_ssl',
> 'htmllib',
> 'httplib',
> 'mimetools',
> 'mimetypes',
> 'rfc822',
> 'tty',
> 'webbrowser',
> 'socket',
> 'hashlib',
> #'base64',
> 'compiler',
> 'pydoc'
> ]
>
> INCLUDE_STUFF = ['encodings',"encodings.latin_1"]
>
> setup(windows=[
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?{'script': SCRIPT_MAIN,
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?'other_resources': [(u"VERSIONTAG",1,VERSIONSTRING)],
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?'icon_resources': [(1,ICONFILE)]}],
> ? ? ? ? ?options = {"py2exe": {
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?"optimize": 2,
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?"includes": INCLUDE_STUFF,
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?"compressed": 1,
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?"ascii": 1,
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?#"bundle_files": 1,
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?"ignores":
> ['tcl','AppKit','Numeric','Foundation'],
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?"excludes": MODULE_EXCLUDES} },
> ? ? ? ? ? name = PRODUCT_NAME,
> ? ? ? ? ? version = VERSION,
> ? ? ? ? ? data_files = extra_files,
> ? ? ? ? ? #zipfile = None,
> ? ? ? ? ? author = AUTHOR_NAME,
> ? ? ? ? ? author_email = AUTHOR_EMAIL,
> ? ? ? ? ? url = AUTHOR_URL)
>
> # Create the /save folder for inclusion with the installer
> #shutil.copytree('save','dist/save')
>
> #if os.path.exists('dist/tcl'): shutil.rmtree('dist/tcl')
>
> # Remove the build tree
> if REMOVE_BUILD_ON_EXIT:
> ? ? ?shutil.rmtree('build/')
>
> if os.path.exists('dist/tcl84.dll'): os.unlink('dist/tcl84.dll')
> if os.path.exists('dist/tk84.dll'): os.unlink('dist/tk84.dll')



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Sat Aug 29 00:37:37 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 01:37:37 -0300
Subject: Object's nesting scope
References: 
	<7fkqodF2llnghU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<1ea2a98f-4035-4ec6-b5a9-06b21dd6f584@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4a97c851$0$307$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<440b8caf-27f9-49d4-8d1b-94f93c75eb23@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

En Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:25:55 -0300, zaur  escribi?:
> On 28 ???, 16:07, Bruno Desthuilliers  42.desthuilli... at websiteburo.invalid> wrote:
>> zaur a ?crit :
>>
>> > Ok. Here is a use case: object initialization.
>>
>> > For example,
>>
>> > person = Person():
>> > ? name = "john"
>> > ? age = 30
>> > ? address = Address():
>> > ? ? ?street = "Green Street"
>> > ? ? ?no = 12
>>
>> > vs.
>>
>> > person = Person()
>> > person.name = "john"
>> > person.age = 30
>> > address = person.address = Address()
>> > address.street = "Green Street"
>> > address.no = 12
>>
>> Err... Looks like you really should read the FineManual(tm) -
>> specifically, the parts on the __init__ method.
>>
>> class Person(object):
>> ? ? def __init__(self, name, age, address):
>> ? ? ? ? self.name = name
>> ? ? ? ? self.age = age
>> ? ? ? ? self.address = address
>>
>> class Address(object):
>> ? ? def __init__(self, street, no):
>> ? ? ? ? self.no = no
>> ? ? ? ? self.street = street
>>
>> person = Person(
>> ? ? name="john",
>> ? ? age=30,
>> ? ? address = Address(
>> ? ? ? ? street="Green Street",
>> ? ? ? ? no=12
>> ? ? )
>> )
>
> What are you doing if 1) classes Person and Address imported from
> foreign module 2) __init__ method is not defined as you want?

Welcome to dynamic languages! It doesn't matter *where* the class was  
defined. You may add new attributes to the instance (even methods to the  
class) at any time.

1)
person = Person()
vars(person).update(name="john",age=30,address=Address())
vars(person.Address).update(street="Green Street",no=12)

2)
def the_initializer_i_would_like(person, name, age):
   person.name = name
   person.age = age

person = Person()
the_initializer_i_would_like(person, name="john", age=30)

3)
def the_initializer_i_would_like(self, name, age):
   self.name = name
   self.age = age

Person.init = the_initializer_i_would_like
person = Person()
person.init(name="john", age=30)

4)
def a_generic_updater(obj, **kw):
   try: ns = vars(obj)
   except Exception: ns = None
   if ns is not None:
     ns.update(kw)
   else:
     for name in kw:
       setattr(obj, name, kw[name])

person = Person()
a_generic_updater(person, name="john", age=30)

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Sat Aug 29 00:43:09 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 01:43:09 -0300
Subject: how to edit .wsgi file extebtions with IDLE on windows
References: 
Message-ID: 

En Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:31:31 -0300, gert  escribi?:

> I can't figure out how to enable the .py shell and syntax highlighting
> for .wsgi file extensions using IDLE for windows ?

That's a Windows question, not a Python one. You have to associate the  
.wsgi extension with the Python.File file type (the one used for .py  
files):

D:\USERDATA\Gabriel>assoc .py
.py=Python.File

D:\USERDATA\Gabriel>assoc .wsgi=Python.File
.wsgi=Python.File

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Sat Aug 29 00:48:36 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 01:48:36 -0300
Subject: copy construtor question
References: <613204.64791.qm@web53105.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<50697b2c0908281747q347d849cx3e8abe2ebe94a120@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

En Fri, 28 Aug 2009 21:47:51 -0300, Chris Rebert   
escribi?:
> On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 11:38 AM, xiaosong xia  
> wrote:
>>
>> 2. How to make a copy constructor?
>
> Since Python lacks overloading based on parameter types, generally one
> does it the other way around and instead provides a method that
> produces a copy of the object. For example:
>
> class Point(object):
>     def __init__(self, x, y):
>         self. x = x
>         self.y = y
>
>     def copy(self):
>         return Point(self.x, self.y)

For simple enough cases, the copy and deepcopy functions in the copy  
module are just fine:
http://docs.python.org/library/copy.html

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Aug 29 01:21:08 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 29 Aug 2009 05:21:08 GMT
Subject: What python can NOT do?
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <00223e3f$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 05:37:34 +0200, Tomasz Rola wrote:

> My private list of
> things that when implemented in Python would be ugly to the point of
> calling it difficult:
> 
> 1. AMB operator - my very favourite. In one sentence, either language
> allows one to do it easily or one would not want to do it (in an ugly
> way).
> 
> http://www.randomhacks.net/articles/2005/10/11/amb-operator


Fascinating, but I don't exactly see how that's actually *useful*. It 
strikes me of combining all the benefits of COME FROM with the potential 
performance of Bogosort, but maybe I'm being harsh. 

On the other hand, it sounds rather like Prolog-like declarative 
programming. I fear that, like Prolog, it risks massive performance 
degradation if you don't apply the constraints in the right order.



> 2. Changing the language from the inside.
> 
> Everybody can change the interpreter, right? But how about doing some
> bigger, maybe even fundamental change to the language by means offered
> by the language itself?

Like Forth. You need it in Forth, because it has a very sparse set of 
language features, and everything is bootstrapped from a small set of 
commands, so the ability to re-define the language as you go is (1) 
necessary and (2) free.

But for Python, I don't know... it sounds cool, but in practice? It 
sounds like the sort of thing that allows programmers to spend three 
hours writing a new control structure which will save them three minutes.

And of course, for all but the tiniest, one-man-band applications, 
readability is important. Sure, you've created a gee-whizz control 
structure which combines try, while and if into one keyword, and it 
automatically does logging and threading, fantastic. But how will anyone 
else be able to maintain it when you're gone?

The ability to change the language is one step into a tarpit, where 
everything is possible but nothing is easy, and where you spend all your 
time writing language features and none of your time building the useful 
functionality you actually want. It sounds like something you want in a 
language you use for designing languages, rather than writing 
applications.



-- 
Steven


From rozzin at geekspace.com  Sat Aug 29 01:23:59 2009
From: rozzin at geekspace.com (Joshua Judson Rosen)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 01:23:59 -0400
Subject: Overriding iadd for dictionary like objects
References: 
	
	
	
	<21e57363-4e92-41cb-9907-5aef96ad0a6e@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
Message-ID: <87vdk76vm8.fsf@slice.rozzin.com>

Robert Kern  writes:
>
> On 2009-08-28 16:42 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:
> > Carl Banks wrote:
> >
> > > I don't think it needs a syntax for that, but I'm not so sure a
> > > method to modify a value in place with a single key lookup
> > > wouldn't occasioanally be useful.
> >
> > Augmented assignment does that.
> 
> No, it uses one __getitem__ and one __setitem__ thus two key lookups.

Apparently you're defining "key lookup" some other way than as
`what __getitem__ does'.

What exactly does "key lookup" mean to you?

I've always understood it as `retrieving the value associated with a
key', which obviously isn't required for assignment--otherwise it
wouldn't be possible to add new keys to a mapping.

-- 
Don't be afraid to ask (Lf.((Lx.xx) (Lr.f(rr)))).


From rozzin at geekspace.com  Sat Aug 29 01:37:21 2009
From: rozzin at geekspace.com (Joshua Judson Rosen)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 01:37:21 -0400
Subject: Overriding iadd for dictionary like objects
References: 
	
	
	
	<21e57363-4e92-41cb-9907-5aef96ad0a6e@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<58e91734-d03f-417c-89b1-f2717c3a9181@l5g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87ws4n5gfi.fsf@slice.rozzin.com>

Carl Banks  writes:
>
> On Aug 28, 2:42?pm, Terry Reedy  wrote:
>
> > Carl Banks wrote:
> > > I don't think it needs a syntax for that, but I'm not so sure a method
> > > to modify a value in place with a single key lookup wouldn't
> > > occasioanally be useful.
> >
> > Augmented assignment does that.
> 
> Internally uses two lookups, one for getting, and one for setting.
>
> I think this is an unavoidable given Python's semantics.  Look at
> the traceback:
> 
> 
> >>> def x():
> ...     d['a'] += 1
> ...
> >>> dis.dis(x)
>   2           0 LOAD_GLOBAL              0 (d)
>               3 LOAD_CONST               1 ('a')
>               6 DUP_TOPX                 2
>               9 BINARY_SUBSCR

OK, there's one lookup, but...

>              10 LOAD_CONST               2 (1)
>              13 INPLACE_ADD
>              14 ROT_THREE
>              15 STORE_SUBSCR
>              16 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
>              19 RETURN_VALUE

... I don't see anything in there that retrieves the value a second time....

> > > As a workaround, if lookups are expensive,
> >
> > But they are not. Because (C)Python is heavily based on dict name lookup
> > for builtins and global names and attributes, as well as overt dict
> > lookup, must effort has gone into optimizing dict lookup.
> 
> The actual lookup algorithm Python dicts use is well-optimized, yes,
> but the dict could contain keys that have expensive comparison and
> hash-code calculation, in which case lookup is going to be slow.

I'll like the originator correct me if I've made a mistake, but I read
"lookup" as actually meaning "lookup", not "value-comparison".

At least in part because the question, as it was posed, specifically
related to a wrapper-class (providing a mapping ("dict like") interface)
around a database of some sort other than Python's dict class per se.

How do the details of Python's native dict-type's internal (hashtable)
algorithm matter when they're explicitly /not/ being used?

-- 
Don't be afraid to ask (Lf.((Lx.xx) (Lr.f(rr)))).


From icevi.icevi at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 02:09:45 2009
From: icevi.icevi at gmail.com (Vivian Wang)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 23:09:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 24, 8:08?pm, Gilles Ganault  wrote:
> Hello
>
> ? ? ? ? I was wondering if some people in this ng use Python and some GUI
> toolkit (PyWin32, wxWidgets, QT, etc.) to build professional
> applications, and if yes, what it's like, the pros and cons, etc.
>
> I'm especially concerned about the lack of controls, the lack of
> updates (lots of controls in wxWidgets are 1.0 deadware), and problems
> linked to how to update users' PC remotely when I build a new version
> using eg. Py2exe.
>
> I need controls for business apps like access to databases, good data
> grid, printing reports (with or without barcodes), etc.
>
> Thank you.

On Aug 24, 8:08 pm, Gilles Ganault  wrote:
> Hello
>
>         I was wondering if some people in this ng use Python and some

GUI
> toolkit (PyWin32, wxWidgets, QT, etc.) to build professional
> applications, and if yes, what it's like, the pros and cons, etc.
>
> I'm especially concerned about the lack of controls, the lack of
> updates (lots of controls in wxWidgets are 1.0 deadware), and problems
> linked to how to update users' PC remotely when I build a new version
> using eg. Py2exe.
>
> I need controls for business apps like access to databases, good data
> grid, printing reports (with or without barcodes), etc.
>
> Thank you.

You can try biform:
http://www.bilive.com/download/Setup_BiForm_V2.1_en.msi.zip

Demo:
http://www.bilive.com/demo/BiForm_EN_demo.htm

More demo:(Chinese version)
http://www.bilive.com/demo/

BiForm is a form designer,one designed form will deploy as a PFF file.
BiReader is a runtime PFF file process engine for end-users.
Setup file above include BiForm and BiReader.

Main features:
*Python as script language,base on QT GUI library
*Visible form designer
*Internal database access framework
*Auto connect database,auto create tables
*Supports SQLite/Mssql2000/Sybase ASE,not need write diffrent script
for diffrent database at most time
*Simple deploy,simple upgrade
*Different forms can share same tables, they will auto cooperation
with other forms at runtime.If you want to deploy a new function , not
need uninstall other forms,deploy the new PFF file is enough .




From ivanko.rus at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 02:28:26 2009
From: ivanko.rus at gmail.com (ivanko.rus at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 06:28:26 +0000
Subject: Monitoring stdout in (more or less) real time
Message-ID: <000e0cd148be848541047241e842@google.com>

Hello to everyone! I am making a program that will be a GTK+ frontend to  
ffmpeg. Naturally, one of the main functions is parsing ffmpeg's output.  
It's pretty simple when I, for example, retrieve information about a file  
(the program finishes and I read the output). But it also needs to parse  
working ffmpeg's output (in order to retrieve the percentage, remaining  
time, etc.). So, actually what I do is Popen ffmpeg, and connect to its  
stdout. And as stdout is represented by a file object, it needs to be  
read(). The problem is that read() reads until EOF is reached, which  
doesn't exist while the program is running (the same goes with  
communicate()).
So my question is: is there a way to retrieve the stdout without waiting  
the program to finish?

PS. I think it might be redirected to a "normal", existing file, but may be  
there are more optimal ways.

I will be grateful for any answer! And sorry for my English =)
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

From icevi.icevi at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 02:32:16 2009
From: icevi.icevi at gmail.com (Vivian Wang)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 23:32:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: IDE for python similar to visual basic
References: <2a17396c-4d6d-4cb0-a314-208054a2f774@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2127e0be-3b93-406f-99a7-5fe02e643b40@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 29, 6:19?am, qwe rty  wrote:
> i have been searching for am IDE for python that is similar to Visual
> Basic but had no luck.shall you help me please?


You can try biform:
http://www.bilive.com/download/Setup_BiForm_V2.1_en.msi.zip

Demo:
http://www.bilive.com/demo/BiForm_EN_demo.htm

More demo:(Chinese version)
http://www.bilive.com/demo/

BiForm is a form designer,one designed form will deploy as a PFF file.
BiReader is a runtime PFF file process engine for end-users.
Setup file above include BiForm and BiReader.

Main features:
*Python as script language,base on QT GUI library
*Visible form designer
*Internal database access framework
*Auto connect database,auto create tables
*Supports SQLite/Mssql2000/Sybase ASE,not need write diffrent script
for diffrent database at most time
*Simple deploy,simple upgrade
*Different forms can share same tables,they will auto cooperation with
other forms at runtime.If you want to deploy a new function , not need
uninstall other forms,deploy the new PFF file is enough .



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Aug 29 03:10:11 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 29 Aug 2009 07:10:11 GMT
Subject: Overriding iadd for dictionary like objects
References: 
	
	
	
	<21e57363-4e92-41cb-9907-5aef96ad0a6e@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
	<87vdk76vm8.fsf@slice.rozzin.com>
Message-ID: <002257cf$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 01:23:59 -0400, Joshua Judson Rosen wrote:

> Robert Kern  writes:
>>
>> On 2009-08-28 16:42 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:
>> > Carl Banks wrote:
>> >
>> > > I don't think it needs a syntax for that, but I'm not so sure a
>> > > method to modify a value in place with a single key lookup wouldn't
>> > > occasioanally be useful.
>> >
>> > Augmented assignment does that.
>> 
>> No, it uses one __getitem__ and one __setitem__ thus two key lookups.
> 
> Apparently you're defining "key lookup" some other way than as `what
> __getitem__ does'.
> 
> What exactly does "key lookup" mean to you?
> 
> I've always understood it as `retrieving the value associated with a
> key', which obviously isn't required for assignment--otherwise it
> wouldn't be possible to add new keys to a mapping.

When you retrieve a value from a dictionary using __getitem__, e.g.:

dict["K"]

the dict has to search the hash table for the record with key "K". This a 
key lookup.

(I use the term "search", but of course for hash tables this is usually 
very fast. For Python dicts, you can assume it will usually be a constant 
time, independent of the key or the size of the dict.)

When you store a value in a dictionary using __setitem__, e.g.:

dict["K"] = 42

the dict has to search the hash table for the correct place to store a 
record with key "K". It obviously can't place the record in some 
arbitrary place, it has to be in the correct place for future lookups to 
find it. This is also a key lookup.



-- 
Steven


From erik.reppen at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 03:20:59 2009
From: erik.reppen at gmail.com (Pherdnut)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 00:20:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python Noob - gui module, book, annoying questions
Message-ID: <92cc4ca1-0e0d-4355-8d9a-b4928390e619@q35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>

I want to write cross-platform stuff. Any opinions on the best GUI
module for that?

I like a good juicy, but concise book for reading on my commute
downtown. I was thinking of checking Python in a Nutshell. Good? Bad?
Better?

Is 3.0+ more object based? I'm actually an FED and one of the things I
love about JS is the consistency of the language. I love Python 2.6 so
far so I'm not knocking it. But I'm not really taking advantage of the
non-core libraries as much right now anyway since I'm learning it.

What do you guys like in Reg Ex books/sites? I'd like to become more
fluent in some of the less commonly used stuff.


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Sat Aug 29 03:21:20 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 04:21:20 -0300
Subject: Monitoring stdout in (more or less) real time
References: <000e0cd148be848541047241e842@google.com>
Message-ID: 

En Sat, 29 Aug 2009 03:28:26 -0300,  escribi?:

> Hello to everyone! I am making a program that will be a GTK+ frontend to
> ffmpeg. Naturally, one of the main functions is parsing ffmpeg's output.
> It's pretty simple when I, for example, retrieve information about a file
> (the program finishes and I read the output). But it also needs to parse
> working ffmpeg's output (in order to retrieve the percentage, remaining
> time, etc.). So, actually what I do is Popen ffmpeg, and connect to its
> stdout. And as stdout is represented by a file object, it needs to be
> read(). The problem is that read() reads until EOF is reached, which
> doesn't exist while the program is running (the same goes with
> communicate()).
> So my question is: is there a way to retrieve the stdout without waiting
> the program to finish?

You don't have to read the complete output at once - you may process it  
line by line, I presume. I'd use a second thread to read the pipe and put  
the lines onto a Queue object; the main thread gets lines from the Queue  
when available.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Sat Aug 29 03:34:43 2009
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 09:34:43 +0200
Subject: (Simple?) Unicode Question
References: <332972a20908270939m57be4e51tc5785b880ec642b3@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: 

* Rami Chowdhury (Thu, 27 Aug 2009 09:44:41 -0700)
> > Further, does anything, except a printing device need to know the
> > encoding of a piece of "text"?

Python needs to know if you are processing the text.
 
> I may be wrong, but I believe that's part of the idea between separation  
> of string and bytes types in Python 3.x. I believe, if you are using  
> Python 3.x, you don't need the character encoding mumbo jumbo at all ;-)

Nothing has changed in that regard. You still need to decode and encode 
text and for that you have to know the encoding.

Thorsten


From szport at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 03:34:48 2009
From: szport at gmail.com (zaur)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 00:34:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Object's nesting scope
References: 
	<7fkqodF2llnghU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<1ea2a98f-4035-4ec6-b5a9-06b21dd6f584@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4a97c851$0$307$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<440b8caf-27f9-49d4-8d1b-94f93c75eb23@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <9205fd44-90ec-4ce6-be2a-2f82dd99e13e@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>

On 29 ???, 08:37, "Gabriel Genellina"  wrote:
> En Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:25:55 -0300, zaur  escribi?:
>
>
>
> > On 28 ???, 16:07, Bruno Desthuilliers  > 42.desthuilli... at websiteburo.invalid> wrote:
> >> zaur a ?crit :
>
> >> > Ok. Here is a use case: object initialization.
>
> >> > For example,
>
> >> > person = Person():
> >> > ? name = "john"
> >> > ? age = 30
> >> > ? address = Address():
> >> > ? ? ?street = "Green Street"
> >> > ? ? ?no = 12
>
> >> > vs.
>
> >> > person = Person()
> >> > person.name = "john"
> >> > person.age = 30
> >> > address = person.address = Address()
> >> > address.street = "Green Street"
> >> > address.no = 12
>
> >> Err... Looks like you really should read the FineManual(tm) -
> >> specifically, the parts on the __init__ method.
>
> >> class Person(object):
> >> ? ? def __init__(self, name, age, address):
> >> ? ? ? ? self.name = name
> >> ? ? ? ? self.age = age
> >> ? ? ? ? self.address = address
>
> >> class Address(object):
> >> ? ? def __init__(self, street, no):
> >> ? ? ? ? self.no = no
> >> ? ? ? ? self.street = street
>
> >> person = Person(
> >> ? ? name="john",
> >> ? ? age=30,
> >> ? ? address = Address(
> >> ? ? ? ? street="Green Street",
> >> ? ? ? ? no=12
> >> ? ? )
> >> )
>
> > What are you doing if 1) classes Person and Address imported from
> > foreign module 2) __init__ method is not defined as you want?
>
> Welcome to dynamic languages! It doesn't matter *where* the class was ?
> defined. You may add new attributes to the instance (even methods to the ?
> class) at any time.
>
> 1)
> person = Person()
> vars(person).update(name="john",age=30,address=Address())
> vars(person.Address).update(street="Green Street",no=12)
>
> 2)
> def the_initializer_i_would_like(person, name, age):
> ? ?person.name = name
> ? ?person.age = age
>
> person = Person()
> the_initializer_i_would_like(person, name="john", age=30)
>
> 3)
> def the_initializer_i_would_like(self, name, age):
> ? ?self.name = name
> ? ?self.age = age
>
> Person.init = the_initializer_i_would_like
> person = Person()
> person.init(name="john", age=30)
>
> 4)
> def a_generic_updater(obj, **kw):
> ? ?try: ns = vars(obj)
> ? ?except Exception: ns = None
> ? ?if ns is not None:
> ? ? ?ns.update(kw)
> ? ?else:
> ? ? ?for name in kw:
> ? ? ? ?setattr(obj, name, kw[name])
>
> person = Person()
> a_generic_updater(person, name="john", age=30)
>
> --
> Gabriel Genellina

I know about these ways of object initializing. What I said is about
using object's dictionary as nested scope in code block. Object
initialization is just one use case.
So we say about different things.


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Sat Aug 29 03:36:38 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 09:36:38 +0200
Subject: comparison on list yields surprising result
In-Reply-To: <25195170.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <25195170.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <200908290936.38375.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Friday 28 August 2009 21:00:31 Dr. Phillip M. Feldman wrote:
> In [21]: x
> Out[21]: [1, 2, 3, 5]
>
> In [22]: x>6
> Out[22]: True
>
> Is this a bug?

No, it is a feature, so that you can use sorted on this:

[[1,2,3,4,5],6]

- Hendrik


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Sat Aug 29 03:50:43 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 09:50:43 +0200
Subject: What python can NOT do?
In-Reply-To: <4A9872EF.2000708@tim.thechases.com>
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4A9870D4.8070800@tim.thechases.com>
	<4A9872EF.2000708@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <200908290950.43216.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Saturday 29 August 2009 02:14:39 Tim Chase wrote:

> I've also been sorely disappointed by Python's ability to make a
> good chocolate cream silk pie.

This is not pythons fault - it is yours, for failing to collaborate with a 
good hardware designer for the robotics.

- Hendrik



From nomail at nomail.com  Sat Aug 29 03:54:15 2009
From: nomail at nomail.com (Sortie)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 07:54:15 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Combining C and Python programs
Message-ID: 

I want to write a program that will use ode for the physics 
simulation, whose python bindings are outdated. So I'm writing 
the physics engine in C and want to write the drawing code in 
Python. What will be the best way of making those two programs 
work together? THe physics engine won't have to run concurrently 
with the drawing code. It will only return some position data so 
they can be drawn.


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Aug 29 04:16:21 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 29 Aug 2009 08:16:21 GMT
Subject: comparison on list yields surprising result
References: <25195170.post@talk.nabble.com>
	
Message-ID: <00226752$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 09:36:38 +0200, Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:

> On Friday 28 August 2009 21:00:31 Dr. Phillip M. Feldman wrote:
>> In [21]: x
>> Out[21]: [1, 2, 3, 5]
>>
>> In [22]: x>6
>> Out[22]: True
>>
>> Is this a bug?
> 
> No, it is a feature, so that you can use sorted on this:
> 
> [[1,2,3,4,5],6]


If it's a feature, it has gone away in Python 3.


Python 3.0.1 (r301:69556, Apr  2 2009, 00:41:38)
[GCC 4.1.2 20070925 (Red Hat 4.1.2-27)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> [[1,2,3], 5].sort()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
TypeError: unorderable types: int() < list()




-- 
Steven


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Sat Aug 29 04:24:52 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 10:24:52 +0200
Subject: Combining C and Python programs
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <200908291024.52629.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Saturday 29 August 2009 09:54:15 Sortie wrote:
> I want to write a program that will use ode for the physics
> simulation, whose python bindings are outdated. So I'm writing
> the physics engine in C and want to write the drawing code in
> Python. What will be the best way of making those two programs
> work together? THe physics engine won't have to run concurrently
> with the drawing code. It will only return some position data so
> they can be drawn.

Have you looked at ctypes?

- Hendrik


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Aug 29 04:26:54 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 29 Aug 2009 08:26:54 GMT
Subject: (Simple?) Unicode Question
References: <332972a20908270939m57be4e51tc5785b880ec642b3@mail.gmail.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <002269cb$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 09:34:43 +0200, Thorsten Kampe wrote:

> * Rami Chowdhury (Thu, 27 Aug 2009 09:44:41 -0700)
>> > Further, does anything, except a printing device need to know the
>> > encoding of a piece of "text"?
> 
> Python needs to know if you are processing the text.

Python only needs to know when you convert the text to or from bytes. I 
can do this:

>>> s = "hello"
>>> t = "world"
>>> print(' '.join([s, t]))
hello world

and not need to care anything about encodings.

So long as your terminal has a sensible encoding, and you have a good 
quality font, you should be able to print any string you can create.



>> I may be wrong, but I believe that's part of the idea between
>> separation of string and bytes types in Python 3.x. I believe, if you
>> are using Python 3.x, you don't need the character encoding mumbo jumbo
>> at all ;-)
> 
> Nothing has changed in that regard. You still need to decode and encode
> text and for that you have to know the encoding.

You only need to worry about encoding when you convert from bytes to 
text, and visa versa. Admittedly, the most common time you need to do 
that is when reading input from files, but if all your text strings are 
generated by Python, and not output anywhere, you shouldn't need to care 
about encodings.

If all your text contains nothing but ASCII characters, you should never 
need to worry about encodings at all.


-- 
Steven


From bilawal.samoon at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 04:46:15 2009
From: bilawal.samoon at gmail.com (bilawal samoon)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 01:46:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: SEI Job Opening
Message-ID: 

SEI is seeking a FT, YR Photovoltaic Technical Manager. If you are a
team player with a minimum of 4 years PV installation, curriculum and
education development, management experience, the ability to
multitask, strong verbal and written communication skills, and a sense
of humor, SEI invites you to apply to join our team in Paonia,
Colorado.
For more details www.technicaledu.blogspot.com


From thangappan143 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 05:12:36 2009
From: thangappan143 at gmail.com (Thangappan.M)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 14:42:36 +0530
Subject: Suggestion
Message-ID: <7aa29e790908290212h17d27593u52d1a90b3e785386@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all,

         I am in the process of learning Python programming language. I know
Perl,PHP. Compare to both the language Python impressed me because here
there is no lexical variables and all.Now I need suggestion saying that ,
What online book can I follow?

         I have not yet learnt any advanced programming stuffs in Python.
Please suggest some book? or tutorial. net net my goal is that I will be
able to do the project in any languages(Python,Perl,PHP).So I need to learn
more depth knowledge of Python.

So Please help me?



-- 
Regards,
Thangappan.M
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From thangappan143 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 05:14:00 2009
From: thangappan143 at gmail.com (Thangappan.M)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 14:44:00 +0530
Subject: IDE for Python
Message-ID: <7aa29e790908290214ode909c8od898918e86759daf@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all,


           Please suggest some good IDE for python.I am working in linux
platform.


-- 
Regards,
Thangappan.M
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From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 06:58:10 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 03:58:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Overriding iadd for dictionary like objects
References: 
	
	 
	
	<21e57363-4e92-41cb-9907-5aef96ad0a6e@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	 
	
	<58e91734-d03f-417c-89b1-f2717c3a9181@l5g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>
	<87ws4n5gfi.fsf@slice.rozzin.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 28, 10:37?pm, Joshua Judson Rosen  wrote:
> Carl Banks  writes:
>
> > On Aug 28, 2:42?pm, Terry Reedy  wrote:
>
> > > Carl Banks wrote:
> > > > I don't think it needs a syntax for that, but I'm not so sure a method
> > > > to modify a value in place with a single key lookup wouldn't
> > > > occasioanally be useful.
>
> > > Augmented assignment does that.
>
> > Internally uses two lookups, one for getting, and one for setting.
>
> > I think this is an unavoidable given Python's semantics. ?Look at
> > the traceback:
>
> > >>> def x():
> > ... ? ? d['a'] += 1
> > ...
> > >>> dis.dis(x)
> > ? 2 ? ? ? ? ? 0 LOAD_GLOBAL ? ? ? ? ? ? ?0 (d)
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 3 LOAD_CONST ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 1 ('a')
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 6 DUP_TOPX ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 2
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 9 BINARY_SUBSCR
>
> OK, there's one lookup, but...
>
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?10 LOAD_CONST ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 2 (1)
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?13 INPLACE_ADD
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?14 ROT_THREE
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?15 STORE_SUBSCR
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?16 LOAD_CONST ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 0 (None)
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?19 RETURN_VALUE
>
> ... I don't see anything in there that retrieves the value a second time....

STORE_SUBSCR has to look up the position in the hash table to store
the value, hence the second lookup.


> > > > As a workaround, if lookups are expensive,
>
> > > But they are not. Because (C)Python is heavily based on dict name lookup
> > > for builtins and global names and attributes, as well as overt dict
> > > lookup, must effort has gone into optimizing dict lookup.
>
> > The actual lookup algorithm Python dicts use is well-optimized, yes,
> > but the dict could contain keys that have expensive comparison and
> > hash-code calculation, in which case lookup is going to be slow.
>
> I'll like the originator correct me if I've made a mistake, but I read
> "lookup" as actually meaning "lookup", not "value-comparison".

This has nothing to do with value comparison.  I was talking about key
comparison, which happens when looking up a position in a hash table.
I was the first person to use the word "lookup" in this thread and I
specifically meant hash-table position lookup.


> At least in part because the question, as it was posed, specifically
> related to a wrapper-class (providing a mapping ("dict like") interface)
> around a database of some sort other than Python's dict class per se.
>
> How do the details of Python's native dict-type's internal (hashtable)
> algorithm matter when they're explicitly /not/ being used?

Well it doesn't apply specifically to the OP's problem.  I changed the
topic a bit by making it specific to dicts.  Is that ok with you?  Was
that not allowed?

The OP can add a method like apply_to_value to his own class, but one
can't do that for dicts.  Ergo why something like apply_to_value()
would be useful enough in rare circumstances where lookup is very slow
to merit a moments consideration before being rejected.

(If dict did have a method like that, the OP would at least know which
method to override.)


Carl Banks


From vicente.soler at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 07:01:46 2009
From: vicente.soler at gmail.com (vsoler)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 04:01:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Colors on IDLE
References: 
	 
	
	<59922ab5-f8c9-429f-b1ea-9b1418aa6b71@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	<8d5d283f-b0bd-4e16-97c7-d2de1a148cae@l35g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <311ec593-4050-4a6a-adbd-2325698a4b61@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 29, 1:27?am, r  wrote:
> Have you tried saving the files as MYScriptName.py? notice the py
> extension, very important ;)

That was it!!!

I see the colors again. Thank you.


From paul at subsignal.org  Sat Aug 29 07:16:00 2009
From: paul at subsignal.org (paul)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 13:16:00 +0200
Subject: why python got less developers ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Deep_Feelings schrieb:
> python got relatively fewer numbers of developers than other high
> level languages like .NET , java .. etc  why ?
Besides the marketing argument, python never had a "hype".

Both PHP and ruby(Rails to be precise) got widespread because they could 
  at one point do "one" thing better than the competition. From there 
on, they had more ressources (developer time) and grew fast and beyond 
the original problem domain. Now you can write GUI apps in PHP, great!

cheers
  Paul



From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Sat Aug 29 07:34:18 2009
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 13:34:18 +0200
Subject: Colors on IDLE
References: 
	
	
	<59922ab5-f8c9-429f-b1ea-9b1418aa6b71@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	<8d5d283f-b0bd-4e16-97c7-d2de1a148cae@l35g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<311ec593-4050-4a6a-adbd-2325698a4b61@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

* vsoler (Sat, 29 Aug 2009 04:01:46 -0700 (PDT))
> On Aug 29, 1:27?am, r  wrote:
> > Have you tried saving the files as MYScriptName.py? notice the py
> > extension, very important ;)
> 
> That was it!!!
> 
> I see the colors again. Thank you.

I suggest you start using familiar technical terms. Like "syntax 
highlighting" instead of "see colours". That would increase the number 
of useful answers you get - at least it will stop people from thinking 
you talk about controlled substances.

Thorsten


From mwawrzyczek at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 08:14:34 2009
From: mwawrzyczek at gmail.com (Marek Wawrzyczek)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 05:14:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: gettext translate problem
Message-ID: 

Hi,

I've got the following code in main.py file:

import gettext
import os

t = gettext.translation(__file__.split('.')[0], os.getcwd())
_ = t.lgettext

if __name__=='__main__':
	print _("Hello")

then I call: xgettext main.py

and after that I call: msgfmt messages.po
wchich produces the following message:
messages.po: warning: Charset "CHARSET" is not a portable encoding
name.
                      Message conversion to user's charset might not
work.

then after calling: python main.py
the following output is print:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "main.py", line 4, in 
    t = gettext.translation(__file__.split('.')[0], os.getcwd())
  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/gettext.py", line 484, in translation
    raise IOError(ENOENT, 'No translation file found for domain',
domain)
IOError: [Errno 2] No translation file found for domain: 'main'

How to use gettext translation method properly?

Regards,
Marek


From invalid at invalid  Sat Aug 29 08:21:11 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 07:21:11 -0500
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: 
	<87d46ok948.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
	<02a0b085$0$30337$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<00216447$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-28, Neil Hodgson  wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano:
>
>> Obviously I can't speak for Ken Thompson's motivation in creating this 
>> feature, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't to save typing or space on 
>> punchcards.
>
>    The original implementation of UNIX was on a PDP-7 which was an
> 18-bit machine. Octal = 3 bits at a a time which evenly divides an
> 18-bit word whereas the 4 bits of hexadecimal do not. Early
> implementations of B were (according to Wikipedia) on the PDP-7, PDP-11
> (a 16-bit machine) and Honeywell 36-bit mainframes.
>
> Octal was widely used on the PDP-11.

The PDP-11's 16-bit instruction word consisted mainly of 3-bit
fields for destiation-mode, destination-register, source-mode,
source-register.  So, it was quite easy for the progammer to
read/write machine code in octal.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! I've read SEVEN
                                  at               MILLION books!!
                               visi.com            


From gert.cuykens at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 08:40:29 2009
From: gert.cuykens at gmail.com (gert)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 05:40:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: how to edit .wsgi file extebtions with IDLE on windows
References: 
	
Message-ID: <58a021ce-3058-483d-b429-6ba4855807ac@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 29, 6:43?am, "Gabriel Genellina" 
wrote:
> En Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:31:31 -0300, gert  escribi?:
>
> > I can't figure out how to enable the .py shell and syntax highlighting
> > for .wsgi file extensions using IDLE for windows ?
>
> That's a Windows question, not a Python one. You have to associate the ?
> .wsgi extension with the Python.File file type (the one used for .py ?
> files):
>
> D:\USERDATA\Gabriel>assoc .py
> .py=Python.File
>
> D:\USERDATA\Gabriel>assoc .wsgi=Python.File
> .wsgi=Python.File
>

Thanks that does make it open exactly like a .py file, expect that
there is no syntax highlighting. Don't know if this is also a windows
issue or a IDLE issue ?



From szport at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 08:45:54 2009
From: szport at gmail.com (zaur)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 05:45:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
Message-ID: 

Python 2.6.2 (r262:71600, Apr 16 2009, 09:17:39)
[GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 5250)] on darwin
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license()" for more information.
>>> a=1
>>> x=[a]
>>> id(a)==id(x[0])
True
>>> a+=1
>>> a
2
>>> x[0]
1

I thought that += should only change the value of the int object. But
+= create new.
Is this intentional?



From ptmcg at austin.rr.com  Sat Aug 29 09:08:49 2009
From: ptmcg at austin.rr.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 06:08:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 29, 7:45?am, zaur  wrote:
> Python 2.6.2 (r262:71600, Apr 16 2009, 09:17:39)
> [GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 5250)] on darwin
> Type "copyright", "credits" or "license()" for more information.>>> a=1
> >>> x=[a]
> >>> id(a)==id(x[0])
> True
> >>> a+=1
> >>> a
> 2
> >>> x[0]
>
> 1
>
> I thought that += should only change the value of the int object. But
> += create new.
> Is this intentional?

ints are immutable.  But your logic works fine with a mutable object,
like a list:

>>> a = [1]
>>> x = [a]
>>> print id(a) == id(x[0])
True
>>> a += [1]
>>> print a
[1, 1]
>>> print x[0]
[1, 1]

What exactly are you trying to do?

-- Paul


From gd_usenet at spamfence.net  Sat Aug 29 09:23:20 2009
From: gd_usenet at spamfence.net (=?UTF-8?Q?G=C3=BCnther?= Dietrich)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 15:23:20 +0200
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
References: 
Message-ID: <8nmnm6-g6g.ln1@spamfence.net>

zaur  wrote:

>Python 2.6.2 (r262:71600, Apr 16 2009, 09:17:39)
>[GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 5250)] on darwin
>Type "copyright", "credits" or "license()" for more information.
>>>> a=1
>>>> x=[a]
>>>> id(a)==id(x[0])
>True
>>>> a+=1
>>>> a
>2
>>>> x[0]
>1
>
>I thought that += should only change the value of the int object. But
>+= create new.
>Is this intentional?

An integer variable contains the reference (ID) to an (immutable) 
integer object; it doesn't contain the value itself. So, when you assign 
a new value to an integer variable, it will contain the reference to the 
object containing the new value, afterwards.

If you assign an integer variable to a list element, this reference will 
be written into the list. The assignment of a new value to the integer 
variable will create a new integer object, containing the new value, and 
put the reference to it into the integer variable.
The reference to the object with the old value, that is stored in the 
list, won't be touched.


In fact, it is a result of integers in python being immutable.



Best regards,

G?nther


From nitebirdz at sacredchaos.com  Sat Aug 29 09:33:38 2009
From: nitebirdz at sacredchaos.com (Nitebirdz)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 15:33:38 +0200
Subject: Blank Line at Program Exit
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<20090822152515.GC10584@sevilla.sacredchaos.com>
	
Message-ID: <20090829133337.GA6751@sevilla.sacredchaos.com>

On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 09:07:53PM +0800, Steven Woody wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> I am using cywin on XP.
> 

Sorry for the late reply.  I've been too busy with some personal
matters.  It'd seem to me that you're better off taking this issue to
the Cygwin mailing lists, since it doesn't seem to be related to Python
itself.



From jkpeck at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 10:12:33 2009
From: jkpeck at gmail.com (JKPeck)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 07:12:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: csv module and None values
References: 
	
	<23c02daf-dc5a-4676-8d73-9dc63791825f@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<4006702e-14c5-4917-b76f-906233cad71e@k30g2000yqf.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 25, 8:49?am, Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
> JKPeck wrote:
> > On Aug 24, 10:43 pm, John Yeung  wrote:
> >> On Aug 24, 5:00 pm, Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
>
> >> > If I understand you correctly the csv.writer already does
> >> > what you want:
>
> >> > >>> w.writerow([1,None,2])
> >> > 1,,2
>
> >> > just sequential commas, but that is the special treatment.
> >> > Without it the None value would be converted to a string
> >> > and the line would look like this one:
>
> >> > 1,None,2
>
> >> No, I think he means he is getting
>
> >> >>> w.writerow([1,None,2])
>
> >> 1,"",2
>
> >> He evidently wants to quote "all" strings, but doesn't want None to be
> >> considered a string.
>
> >> John
>
> > Exactly so. ?The requirement of the receiving program, which is out of
> > my control, is that all strings be quoted but a None in a numeric
> > field result in the ,, output rather than "". ?Excel quotes strings
> > conditionally, which doesn't do what is needed in this case. ?For
> > QUOTE_NONNUMERIC to quote None values makes some sense, but it gets in
> > the way of representing missing values in a numeric field. ?It would
> > be nice to have a choice here in the dialects.
>
> > I thought of replacing the None values with float(nan), since that has
> > a numeric type, but unfortunately that results in writing the string
> > (unquoted) nan for the value. ?So the sentinel approach seems to be
> > the best I can do.
>
> How about:
>
> >>> import csv, sys
> >>> class N(int):
>
> ... ? ? def __str__(self): return ""
> ...>>> pseudo_none = N()
> >>> w = csv.writer(sys.stdout, quoting=csv.QUOTE_NONNUMERIC)
> >>> w.writerow([1, "foo", pseudo_none, "bar"])
>
> 1,"foo",,"bar"
>
> Peter

Clever.  Thanks,
Jon


From forzamila2004 at hotmail.com  Sat Aug 29 10:12:54 2009
From: forzamila2004 at hotmail.com (Momen)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 16:12:54 +0200
Subject: the best book for learning python !?
Message-ID: 

 

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From rurpy at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 29 10:38:51 2009
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 07:38:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: break unichr instead of fix ord?
References: <2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4A95A4D1.9060008@v.loewis.de>
	
	<4A961EE1.9010103@v.loewis.de>
	<65e6c430-9dc4-4a90-8448-f8f587d19750@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4a979172$0$11759$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: 

On 08/28/2009 02:12 AM, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote:

[I reordered the quotes from your previous post to try
and get the responses in a more coherent order.  No
intent to take anything out of context...]

 >>  Nothing else in the PEP seems remotely relevant.
[to providing justification for the behavior of
unichr/ord]
 >
 > Except for the motivation, of course :-)
 >
 > In addition: your original question was "why has this
 > been changed", to which the answer is "it hasn't".

My original interest was two-fold: can unichr/ord be
changed to work in a more general and helpful way?  That
seemed remotely possible until it was pointed out that
the two behave consistently, and that behavior is accurately
documented.  Second, why would they work the way they do
when they could have been generalized to cover the full
unicode space?  An inadequate answer to this would have
provided support for the first point but remains interesting
to me for the reason below.

 > Then, the next question is "why is it implemented that
 > way", to which the answer is "because the PEP says so".

Not at all a satisfying answer unless one believes
in PEPal infallibility. :-)

 > Only *then* the question is "what is the rationale for
 > the PEP specifying things the way it does". The PEP is
 > relevant so that we can both agree that Python behaves
 > correctly (in the sense of behaving as specified).

But my question had become: why that behavior, when a
slightly different behavior would be more general with
little apparent downside?

To clarify, my interest in the justification for the
current behavior is this:

I think the best feature of python is not, as commonly
stated, the clean syntax, but rather the pretty complete
and orthogonal libraries.  I often find, after I have
written some code, that due to the right library functions
being available, it turns out much shorter and concise
than I expected.

Nevertheless, every now and then, perhaps more than in some
other languages (I'm not sure), I run into something that
requires what seems to be excessive coding -- I have to
do something it seems to me that a library function should
have done for me.  Sometimes this is because I don't under-
stand the reason the library function needs to works the
way it does.  Other times it is one of the countless trade-
off made in the design of the language, which didn't happen
to go the way that would have been beneficial to me in a
particular coding situation.

But sometimes (and it feels too often) it seems as though,
zen not withstanding, that purity -- adherence to some
philosophic ideal -- beat practicality.
unichr/ord seems such as case to me,  But I want to be
sure I am not missing something.

The reasons for the current behavior so far:

1.
> What you propose would break the property "unichr(i) always returns
> a string of length one, if it returns anything at all".

Yes.  And i don't see the problem with that.  Why is
that property more desirable than the non-existent
property that a Unicode literal always produces one
python character?  It would only occur on a narrow
build with a unicode character outside of the bmp,
exactly the condition a unicode literal can "behave
differently" by producing two python characters.

2.
> >  But there is no reason given [in the PEP] for that behavior.
> Sure there is, right above the list:
> "Most things will behave identically in the wide and narrow worlds."
> That's the reason: scripts should work the same as much as possible
> in wide and narrow builds.

So what else would work "differently"?  My point was
that extending unichr/ord to work with all unicode
characters reduces differences far more often than
it increase them.

3.
>>       * There is a convention in the Unicode world for
>>         encoding a 32-bit code point in terms of two
>>         16-bit code points. These are known as
>>         "surrogate pairs". Python's codecs will adopt
>>         this convention.
>>
>>  Is a distinction made between Python and Python
>>  codecs with only the latter having any knowledge of
>>  surrogate pairs?
>
> No. In the end, the Unicode type represents code units,
> not code points, i.e. half surrogates are individually
> addressable. Codecs need to adjust to that; in particular
> the UTF-8 and the UTF-32 codec in narrow builds, and the
> UTF-16 codec in wide builds (which didn't exist when the
> PEP was written).

OK, so that is not a reason either.

4.
I'll speculate a little.
If surrogate handling was added to ord/unichr, it would
be the top of a slippery slope leading to demands that
other string functions also handle surrogates.

But this is not true -- there is a strong distinction
between ord/unichr and other string methods.  The latter
deal with strings of multiple characters.  But the former
deals only with single characters (taking a surrogate
pair as a single unicode character.)

The behavior of ord/unichr is independent of the other
string methods -- if they were changed with regard to
surrogate handling they would all have to be changed to
maintain consistent behavior.  Unichr/str affect only
each other.

The functions of ord/unichr -- to map characters to
numbers -- are fundamental string operations, akin to
indexing or extracting a substring.  So why would
one want to limit them to a subset of characters if
not absolutely necessary?

To reiterate, I am not advocating for any change.  I
simply want to understand if there is a good reason
for limiting the use of unchr/ord on narrow builds to
a subset of the unicode characters that Python otherwise
supports.  So far, it seems not and that unichr/ord
is a poster child for "purity beats practicality".


From tw55413 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 10:49:22 2009
From: tw55413 at gmail.com (erikj)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 07:49:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
References: 
	<7f519c34-2d6e-4fff-9489-dae43c6b2df1@r42g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<6b961048-782a-428c-9c0a-4fb17e87b57f@s13g2000yql.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 27, 2:31?pm, Neuruss  wrote:
> On 26 ago, 05:29, erikj  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi,
>
> > You could have a look at Camelot, to see if it fits
> > your needs :http://www.conceptive.be/projects/camelot/
>
> > it was developed with cross platform business apps in
> > mind. ?when developing Camelot, we tried to build it using
> > wxWidgets first (because of the licensing at that time),
> > but it turned out that developing with QT proved to be
> > much more straightforward. ?QT is documented very well
> > and you seldom encounter 'strange' issues that cost hours
> > of time to pinpoint and fix.
>
> > the datagrid was developed to be able to handle millions
> > of database records without glitches and is flexible thanks
> > to QT's model-view-delegate framework.
>
> > we do print barcodes with this app (even directly to
> > zebra printers)
>
> > if you have questions regarding Camelot, please feel free
> > to post on our mailing list :http://groups.google.com/group/project-camelot
>
> > Regards,
>
> > Erik
>
> > On Aug 24, 2:08?pm, Gilles Ganault  wrote:
>
> > > Hello
>
> > > ? ? ? ? I was wondering if some people in this ng use Python and someGUI
> > > toolkit (PyWin32, wxWidgets, QT, etc.) to build professional
> > > applications, and if yes, what it's like, the pros and cons, etc.
>
> > > I'm especially concerned about the lack of controls, the lack of
> > > updates (lots of controls in wxWidgets are 1.0 deadware), and problems
> > > linked to how to update users' PC remotely when I build a new version
> > > using eg. Py2exe.
>
> > > I need controls for business apps like access to databases, good data
> > > grid, printing reports (with or without barcodes), etc.
>
> > > Thank you.
>
> Looks interesting, but I wonder if I can use Camelot without its ORM.
> I feel that ORMs make easy things easier, but complex things much
> harder...
> Can I use it with plain old sql?
>
> Luis

Yes and no :)

It uses sqlalchemy as it's orm, which is quite flexible and allows the
use of
plain old sql, but you still have to map the result to objects for the
GUI to
to handle them.

You are right that the ORM makes easy things easier, eg. what we do a
lot is
to create our core model using the ORM, and then create the different
summaries
directly as views in the database (since these are usually very
complex
queries, and those tend to be easier to write/debug in plain old
sql).  Then
we use the ORM again to map those views back to objects and have them
visualized.

Cheers,

Erik


From timothy.tsvetkov at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 10:52:03 2009
From: timothy.tsvetkov at gmail.com (Timothy N. Tsvetkov)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 07:52:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: What python can NOT do?
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4A9870D4.8070800@tim.thechases.com>
	 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 29, 4:26?am, qwe rty  wrote:
> On Aug 29, 3:14?am, Tim Chase  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > >> what else can NOT be done in python? what are the limitations of the
> > >> language?
>
> > > I understand there's a little trouble getting Python to prove
> > > that P=NP ?You'll also find that it only comes close to solving
> > > the unrestricted three-body problem and the Traveling Salesman
> > > problem is still limited to fallible heuristics and searching the
> > > entire solution set in better than O(2**n) time.
>
> > I forgot about solving the Spam problem entirely. ?And answering
> > poorly worded/thought-out questions on the internet...
>
> > I've also been sorely disappointed by Python's ability to make a
> > good chocolate cream silk pie.
>
> > -tkc
>
> if you don't know the answer please don't reply

If you want to ask a silly question don't ask it.


From deets at nospam.web.de  Sat Aug 29 11:22:29 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:22:29 +0200
Subject: Combining C and Python programs
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7fsvdlF2lo7cgU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Sortie schrieb:
> I want to write a program that will use ode for the physics 
> simulation, whose python bindings are outdated. So I'm writing 
> the physics engine in C and want to write the drawing code in 
> Python. What will be the best way of making those two programs 
> work together? THe physics engine won't have to run concurrently 
> with the drawing code. It will only return some position data so 
> they can be drawn.

How about you update the ODE-bindings? They shouldn't be hard to enhance 
to cover the latest features.

Diez


From rtomek at ceti.com.pl  Sat Aug 29 11:51:30 2009
From: rtomek at ceti.com.pl (Tomasz Rola)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:51:30 +0200
Subject: What python can NOT do?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4A9870D4.8070800@tim.thechases.com>
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Sat, 29 Aug 2009, Timothy N. Tsvetkov wrote:

> On Aug 29, 4:26?am, qwe rty  wrote:
> > On Aug 29, 3:14?am, Tim Chase  wrote:
> >
> > > >> what else can NOT be done in python? what are the limitations of the
> > > >> language?
> >
[...]
> > > I forgot about solving the Spam problem entirely. ?And answering
> > > poorly worded/thought-out questions on the internet...
> >
> > > I've also been sorely disappointed by Python's ability to make a
> > > good chocolate cream silk pie.
> >
> > > -tkc
> >
> > if you don't know the answer please don't reply
> 
> If you want to ask a silly question don't ask it.

The question the OP asked was not silly.

Regards,
Tomasz Rola

--
** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature.      **
** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home    **
** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened...      **
**                                                                 **
** Tomasz Rola          mailto:tomasz_rola at bigfoot.com             **

From gherron at islandtraining.com  Sat Aug 29 12:12:29 2009
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 09:12:29 -0700
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A99536D.6080002@islandtraining.com>

zaur wrote:
> Python 2.6.2 (r262:71600, Apr 16 2009, 09:17:39)
> [GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 5250)] on darwin
> Type "copyright", "credits" or "license()" for more information.
>   
>>>> a=1
>>>> x=[a]
>>>> id(a)==id(x[0])
>>>>         
> True
>   
>>>> a+=1
>>>> a
>>>>         
> 2
>   
>>>> x[0]
>>>>         
> 1
>
> I thought that += should only change the value of the int object. But
> += create new.
> Is this intentional?
>
>   

You don't need the (slight) complexity of += to see this.  Straight 
assignment shows the same behavior.

Try this:
a=1
print id(a)
a=2
print id(a)

The different results from the two prints happens because Python stores 
integers 1 and 2 in different locations and the assignments causes a to 
refer to one and then the other.

Gary Herron



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From vicente.soler at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 12:25:48 2009
From: vicente.soler at gmail.com (vsoler)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 09:25:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Colors on IDLE
References: 
	 
	
	<59922ab5-f8c9-429f-b1ea-9b1418aa6b71@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	<8d5d283f-b0bd-4e16-97c7-d2de1a148cae@l35g2000vba.googlegroups.com> 
	<311ec593-4050-4a6a-adbd-2325698a4b61@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 29, 1:34?pm, Thorsten Kampe  wrote:
> * vsoler (Sat, 29 Aug 2009 04:01:46 -0700 (PDT))
>
> > On Aug 29, 1:27?am, r  wrote:
> > > Have you tried saving the files as MYScriptName.py? notice the py
> > > extension, very important ;)
>
> > That was it!!!
>
> > I see the colors again. Thank you.
>
> I suggest you start using familiar technical terms. Like "syntax
> highlighting" instead of "see colours". That would increase the number
> of useful answers you get - at least it will stop people from thinking
> you talk about controlled substances.
>
> Thorsten

I'll keep it in mind for next time. Thank you

Vicente Soler


From gd_usenet at spamfence.net  Sat Aug 29 12:25:54 2009
From: gd_usenet at spamfence.net (=?UTF-8?Q?G=C3=BCnther?= Dietrich)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 18:25:54 +0200
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

Paul McGuire  wrote:

>What exactly are you trying to do?

I think, he wants to kind of dereference the list element. So that he 
can write

>>> a += 1

instead of

>>> long_name_of_a_list_which_contains_data[mnemonic_pointer_name] += 1



Regards,

G?nther


From cryzed at googlemail.com  Sat Aug 29 12:28:24 2009
From: cryzed at googlemail.com (cryzed)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 18:28:24 +0200
Subject: AutoIt/Autohotkey Python library for Linux
Message-ID: 

Hey, maybe some of you are familiar with the tools "AutoIt" () and 
"Autohotkey" () for Windows - I was wondering if you knew about Python 
libraries which provide similiar functionality for Python programs under 
Linux. That said, those libraries would have to rely on X11 internally 
to provide their functionality.

Also, yes, I know that there are X11-bindings for Python - but I 
honestly think that they aren't remotely useable and they are also 
incomplete.

It would be great if you guys had some tips for me.


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 13:17:38 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 10:17:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Transforming a str to an operator
References: 
	<87skfcblo3.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<91126ac3-e7fe-4b7a-a37d-d1e60beaa278@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <38877ac9-cc2d-4293-b682-cfaf5cd3c861@o13g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 28, 8:43?pm, Anny Mous  wrote:
> It isn't irrational to have a healthy caution towards eval.

Ignorance is never an excuse for stupidity. No caution is needed if
you know how to properly use eval. You can't shoot yourself in the
foot without first pulling the trigger.

> Apart from the security issues, running code in eval takes a massive
> performance hit. Its about ten times slower to run eval("x+1") than to run
> x+1 directly.

And the point is...?
eval is only for corner cases. Nobody is suggesting he eval entire
scripts. Performance is the last of my worries. Optimizations can come
later. First understand the problem at hand, code up a working
solution, then tweak and optimize the code to perfection.

> What makes you think that learning to program well in Python is a throw-away
> exercise of no useful purpose? I'm sure the code itself will be thrown away
> and forgotten, but it has a very important purpose: for the OP to learn
> good programming skills. Looks like you want him to learn bad skills, then
> spend the rest of his life trying to unlearn them.

No i want him to use eval properly .If you think eval is scary well
thats just your opinion. I showed the OP how to successfully pass the
arguments into eval the way he was unsuccesfully struggling to pass
them.  Ben's approach is the professional/proper way to handle such
input in the real world (there are other ways too), however the OP
also must know that you don't *have* to go by the book all the time
(python is not Java ya know?).

> > but serves the very
> > useful purpose now of establishing an IO between the student and
> > Python interpretor. I'll bet most your example (albeit a good example)
> > flew miles above his head into la-la land.
>
> How insulting. Is there anything that gave you the impression the OP was
> stupid?

Please quote the line from my post were i called the OP stupid or used
otherwise derogatory comments? And if you can i'll buy you a beer.
Obviously anyone who shows example code as the OP did is a noob and
needs proper training on how to use it and there is nothing wrong with
that. We have all been there, remember?

> > The OP has plenty of time to learn about malicious input and
> > protecting against it, right now the fundamentals are well...
> > fundamental :)
>
> When would you recommend he learns? When his web app is hijacked by
> gangsters in Russia and the personal details and financial records of fifty
> thousand people stolen? Protecting against malicious input *IS*
> fundamental.

If the OP uses eval without inderstanding it and then shoots himself
in the foot, well then i can't think of a better learning experience
for him. I'll bet the next time he will read the docs first or ask on
this list before he goes off on a turkey hunt ;).

Fear is a product of ignorance. Educate yourself and your irrational
fears shall bother you no more.



From cryzed at googlemail.com  Sat Aug 29 13:37:56 2009
From: cryzed at googlemail.com (cryzed)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 19:37:56 +0200
Subject: AutoIt/Autohotkey-like library for Linux
Message-ID: 

Hey, maybe some of you are familiar with the tools "AutoIt"
(http://www.autoitscript.com/autoit3/) and "Autohotkey"
(http://www.autohotkey.com/) for Windows - I was wondering if you knew
about Python libraries which provide similiar functionality for Python
programs under Linux. That said, those libraries would have to rely on
X11 internally to provide their functionality.

Also, yes, I know that there are X11-bindings for Python - but I
honestly think that they aren't remotely useable and they are also
incomplete.

It would be great if you guys had some tips for me.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Aug 29 13:39:11 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 18:39:11 +0100
Subject: Transforming a str to an operator
In-Reply-To: <38877ac9-cc2d-4293-b682-cfaf5cd3c861@o13g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: 	<87skfcblo3.fsf@benfinney.id.au>	<91126ac3-e7fe-4b7a-a37d-d1e60beaa278@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>	
	<38877ac9-cc2d-4293-b682-cfaf5cd3c861@o13g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A9967BF.6000700@mrabarnett.plus.com>

r wrote:
> On Aug 28, 8:43 pm, Anny Mous  wrote:
>> It isn't irrational to have a healthy caution towards eval.
> 
> Ignorance is never an excuse for stupidity. No caution is needed if
> you know how to properly use eval. You can't shoot yourself in the
> foot without first pulling the trigger.
> 
>> Apart from the security issues, running code in eval takes a massive
>> performance hit. Its about ten times slower to run eval("x+1") than to run
>> x+1 directly.
> 
> And the point is...?
> eval is only for corner cases. Nobody is suggesting he eval entire
> scripts. Performance is the last of my worries. Optimizations can come
> later. First understand the problem at hand, code up a working
> solution, then tweak and optimize the code to perfection.
> 
>> What makes you think that learning to program well in Python is a throw-away
>> exercise of no useful purpose? I'm sure the code itself will be thrown away
>> and forgotten, but it has a very important purpose: for the OP to learn
>> good programming skills. Looks like you want him to learn bad skills, then
>> spend the rest of his life trying to unlearn them.
> 
> No i want him to use eval properly .If you think eval is scary well
> thats just your opinion. I showed the OP how to successfully pass the
> arguments into eval the way he was unsuccesfully struggling to pass
> them.  Ben's approach is the professional/proper way to handle such
> input in the real world (there are other ways too), however the OP
> also must know that you don't *have* to go by the book all the time
> (python is not Java ya know?).
> 
>>> but serves the very
>>> useful purpose now of establishing an IO between the student and
>>> Python interpretor. I'll bet most your example (albeit a good example)
>>> flew miles above his head into la-la land.
>> How insulting. Is there anything that gave you the impression the OP was
>> stupid?
> 
> Please quote the line from my post were i called the OP stupid or used
> otherwise derogatory comments? And if you can i'll buy you a beer.
> Obviously anyone who shows example code as the OP did is a noob and
> needs proper training on how to use it and there is nothing wrong with
> that. We have all been there, remember?
> 
>>> The OP has plenty of time to learn about malicious input and
>>> protecting against it, right now the fundamentals are well...
>>> fundamental :)
>> When would you recommend he learns? When his web app is hijacked by
>> gangsters in Russia and the personal details and financial records of fifty
>> thousand people stolen? Protecting against malicious input *IS*
>> fundamental.
> 
> If the OP uses eval without inderstanding it and then shoots himself
> in the foot, well then i can't think of a better learning experience
> for him. I'll bet the next time he will read the docs first or ask on
> this list before he goes off on a turkey hunt ;).
> 
> Fear is a product of ignorance. Educate yourself and your irrational
> fears shall bother you no more.
> 
I think it's a good idea to warn the OP about the dangers of eval. If he
still wants to use it, then that's his choice (and his problem).


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Aug 29 14:06:34 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 29 Aug 2009 18:06:34 GMT
Subject: break unichr instead of fix ord?
References: <2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4A95A4D1.9060008@v.loewis.de>
	
	<4A961EE1.9010103@v.loewis.de>
	<65e6c430-9dc4-4a90-8448-f8f587d19750@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4a979172$0$11759$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	
Message-ID: <0022f1a7$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 07:38:51 -0700, rurpy wrote:

>  > Then, the next question is "why is it implemented that way", to which
>  > the answer is "because the PEP says so".
> 
> Not at all a satisfying answer unless one believes in PEPal
> infallibility. :-)

Not at all. You don't have to believe that PEPs are infallible to accept 
the answer, you just have to understand that major changes to Python 
aren't made arbitrarily, they have to go through a PEP first. Even Guido 
himself has to write a PEP before making any major changes to the 
language. But PEPs aren't infallible, they can be challenged, rejected, 
withdrawn or made obsolete by new PEPs.


> The reasons for the current behavior so far:
> 
> 1.
>> What you propose would break the property "unichr(i) always returns a
>> string of length one, if it returns anything at all".
> 
> Yes.  And i don't see the problem with that.  Why is that property more
> desirable than the non-existent property that a Unicode literal always
> produces one python character?

What do you mean? Unicode literals don't always produce one character, 
e.g. u'abcd' is a Unicode literal with four characters.

I think it's fairly self-evident that a function called uniCHR [emphasis 
added] should return a single character (technically a single code 
point). But even if you can come up with a reason for unichr() to return 
two or more characters, this would break code that relies on the 
documented promise that the length of the output of unichr() is always 
one.

> It would only occur on a narrow build
> with a unicode character outside of the bmp, exactly the condition a
> unicode literal can "behave differently" by producing two python
> characters.


> 2.
>> >  But there is no reason given [in the PEP] for that behavior.
>> Sure there is, right above the list:
>> "Most things will behave identically in the wide and narrow worlds."
>> That's the reason: scripts should work the same as much as possible in
>> wide and narrow builds.
> 
> So what else would work "differently"?  

unichr(n) sometimes would return one character and sometimes two; ord(c) 
would sometimes accept two characters and sometimes raise an exception. 
That's a fairly major difference.


> My point was that extending
> unichr/ord to work with all unicode characters reduces differences far
> more often than it increase them.

I don't see that at all. What differences do you think it would reduce?


> 3.
>>>       * There is a convention in the Unicode world for
>>>         encoding a 32-bit code point in terms of two 16-bit code
>>>         points. These are known as "surrogate pairs". Python's codecs
>>>         will adopt this convention.
>>>
>>>  Is a distinction made between Python and Python codecs with only the
>>>  latter having any knowledge of surrogate pairs?
>>
>> No. In the end, the Unicode type represents code units, not code
>> points, i.e. half surrogates are individually addressable. Codecs need
>> to adjust to that; in particular the UTF-8 and the UTF-32 codec in
>> narrow builds, and the UTF-16 codec in wide builds (which didn't exist
>> when the PEP was written).
> 
> OK, so that is not a reason either.

I think it is a very important reason. Python supports code points, so it 
has to support surrogate codes individually. Python can't tell if the 
pair of code points u'\ud800\udc40' represents the single character 
\U00010040 or a pair of code points \ud800 and \udc40.


> 4.
> I'll speculate a little.
> If surrogate handling was added to ord/unichr, it would be the top of a
> slippery slope leading to demands that other string functions also
> handle surrogates.
> 
> But this is not true -- there is a strong distinction between ord/unichr
> and other string methods.  The latter deal with strings of multiple
> characters.  But the former deals only with single characters (taking a
> surrogate pair as a single unicode character.)

Strictly speaking, unichr() deals with code points, not characters, 
although the distinction is very fine.

>>> c = unichr(56384)
>>> len(c)
1
>>> import unicodedata
>>> unicodedata.category(c)
'Cs'

Cs is the general category for "Other, Surrogate", so \udc40 is not 
strictly speaking a character. Nevertheless, Python treats it as one.


> To reiterate, I am not advocating for any change.  I simply want to
> understand if there is a good reason for limiting the use of unchr/ord
> on narrow builds to a subset of the unicode characters that Python
> otherwise supports.  So far, it seems not and that unichr/ord is a
> poster child for "purity beats practicality".

On the contrary, it seems pretty impractical to me for ord() to sometimes 
successfully accept strings of length two and sometimes to raise an 
exception. I would much rather see a pair of new functions, wideord() and 
widechr() used for converting between surrogate pairs and numbers.



-- 
Steven


From ivanko.rus at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 14:08:56 2009
From: ivanko.rus at gmail.com (ivanko.rus at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 18:08:56 +0000
Subject: IDE for Python
In-Reply-To: <7aa29e790908290214ode909c8od898918e86759daf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000e0cd20f80b36a6104724bb134@google.com>

29.08.2009 4:14 ???????????? "Thangappan.M"   
???????:
> Dear all,


> Please suggest some good IDE for python.I am working in linux platform.

> --
> Regards,
> Thangappan.M


You can use Eclipse + PyDev or Emacs+PythonMode . Also there are Anjuta and  
Code:Blocks, but they are designed mainly for C++ (but still can be used).
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From szport at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 14:11:43 2009
From: szport at gmail.com (zaur)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 11:11:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
References: 
	 
	
Message-ID: 

On 29 ???, 20:25, "G?nther Dietrich"  wrote:
> Paul McGuire  wrote:
> >What exactly are you trying to do?
>
> I think, he wants to kind of dereference the list element. So that he
> can write
>
> >>> a += 1
>
> instead of
>
> >>> long_name_of_a_list_which_contains_data[mnemonic_pointer_name] += 1
>
> Regards,
>
> G?nther

That's right. I thought that int as object will stay the same object
after += but with another integer value.
My intuition said me that int object which represent integer value
should behave this way.
But by design python's integer behave differently.

I fond that NumPy's 1-d types behaves as objects with mutable values.

>>> from numpy import *

>>> a=array([1])
>>> id(a)
10912544
>>> a += 1
>>> id(a)
10912544
>>> a
array([2])


From rtomek at ceti.com.pl  Sat Aug 29 14:18:07 2009
From: rtomek at ceti.com.pl (Tomasz Rola)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 20:18:07 +0200
Subject: What python can NOT do?
In-Reply-To: <00223e3f$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	
	<00223e3f$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sat, 29 Aug 2009, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 05:37:34 +0200, Tomasz Rola wrote:
> 
> > My private list of
> > things that when implemented in Python would be ugly to the point of
> > calling it difficult:
> > 
> > 1. AMB operator - my very favourite. In one sentence, either language
> > allows one to do it easily or one would not want to do it (in an ugly
> > way).
> > 
> > http://www.randomhacks.net/articles/2005/10/11/amb-operator
> 
> 
> Fascinating, but I don't exactly see how that's actually *useful*. It 
> strikes me of combining all the benefits of COME FROM with the potential 
> performance of Bogosort, but maybe I'm being harsh. 

Usefullness is totally different thing, I agree. However, amb could still 
find some following. I guess it is more about personal taste and 
willingness to look for better idioms in programming. I can imagine when 
they introduced for and while loops, people were pointing at conditional 
goto as more practical (I think every control structure can be modeled 
with it).

Id doesn't mean amb is better idiom, but it is something that could be 
tried - or not. One could write like this:

(partially stol####copied from the above link)

a = amb 1, 2, 3
b = amb 4, 5, 6
c = amb 7, 8, 9

if a*b + c != 27 :
  amb

print a,b,c

or one could write like this:

for a in [1, 2, 3]:
  for b in [4, 5, 6]:
    for c in [7, 8, 9]:
      if a*b+c == 27 :
        print a,b,c
        break

Which one would I choose? Well, amb of course. I consider it to be more 
readable which is, for me at least, useful. Now, try to imagine the same 
with ten variables. And longer lists. And some problems do not fit well 
into numpy (they could be non-numerical in nature).

> On the other hand, it sounds rather like Prolog-like declarative 
> programming. I fear that, like Prolog, it risks massive performance 
> degradation if you don't apply the constraints in the right order.

Of course, but this can be optimised. Either by hand or by a good 
compiler (whatever this means). Performance degradation is connected with 
abuse of every other programming technique, too. And besides, I believe 
one would sometimes trade performance for the ability to clearly express 
the idea behind the algorithm. Just as is the case with choosing Python 
rather than Java. For things I use Python for, I wouldn't use Java or C. 
Even though C is one of my beloved languages. If I ever used Prolog for 
anything, I wouldn't like to rewrite it in C or Python. I mean, languages 
should (in theory) be chosen and used with some consideration.

> > 2. Changing the language from the inside.
> > 
> > Everybody can change the interpreter, right? But how about doing some
> > bigger, maybe even fundamental change to the language by means offered
> > by the language itself?
> 
> Like Forth. You need it in Forth, because it has a very sparse set of 
> language features, and everything is bootstrapped from a small set of 
> commands, so the ability to re-define the language as you go is (1) 
> necessary and (2) free.

It also leads to writing code in an incredibly expressive manner. I've 
never done anything big in Forth. I only had a two weeks long exposure to 
it in times, when you loaded such things from casette recorder ;-/... But 
from time to time I find some interesting pieces, like a disk driver whose 
source would fit into a comment of one Python function :-).

> But for Python, I don't know... it sounds cool, but in practice? It 
> sounds like the sort of thing that allows programmers to spend three 
> hours writing a new control structure which will save them three minutes.

It really is not so. Writing something for three hours and using it only 
once sounds more like programming excercise, less like real life work. To 
write a function I need to know at least two places in my code where it 
would be used (well, I am oversimplifying, ok? sometimes one place is 
sufficient). I think reasonable people would judge language extension by 
similar criteria. They would possibly stay away from this as long as 
possible (I have such possibility from some time but I just don't touch 
macros, which by my own words makes me reasonable, wow :-)... or a 
coward...).

> And of course, for all but the tiniest, one-man-band applications, 
> readability is important. Sure, you've created a gee-whizz control 
> structure which combines try, while and if into one keyword, and it 
> automatically does logging and threading, fantastic. But how will anyone 
> else be able to maintain it when you're gone?

This is comparable to me creating a gee-whizz function library and using 
it. I cannot see a problem as long as I document (with use cases, tests 
etc).

There is something better in this idea. Suppose I would have invented a 
better control structure and posted the source code here? Some would have 
found it amusing, others would have tried it, posted their comments, 
leading to improvements and further spreading. Finally - who knows - it 
could have found a way in to a standard. And even if not, it should still 
remain as a loadable extension for quite some time.

> The ability to change the language is one step into a tarpit, where 
> everything is possible but nothing is easy, and where you spend all your 
> time writing language features and none of your time building the useful 
> functionality you actually want.

I don't think this is much different from the situation when I would write 
string processing library (that would be used further in the program) 
rather than "building useful functionality" - which would be what, 
programming buttons :-)?

For me, it looks like language elements should not be protected from my 
tinkering. Think about operators in Python. I can define my own "+" for 
some objects, which has been decided on Python's upper levels :-). In 
fact, as far as I remember, I have never used this feature. But knowing 
there is some possibility, space to grow, is good.

> It sounds like something you want in a 
> language you use for designing languages, rather than writing 
> applications.

Yes indeed, Lisps have been used to prototype some other languages. 
However, I am not sure if the boundary between a language and an app could 
be strictly defined. If adding new words to the language dictionary by 
writing a library is considered a good programming practice, then why 
adding a new keyword and syntax should not be considered as such?

Ok, since I myself have written above I didn't use those features from 
very upper shelve, one could ask what is my point. The point is, if I 
wanted to, I could have used them. Click and go. Do anything that by my 
own judgement is good for code progress rather than murmuring about my 
code being less elegant and expressive that it could have been. I mean, if 
my job was beheading people, I would rather do it with sharp axe because 
it is more expressive and elegant than sawing their necks with piece of 
wood. And besides the job is better done and less boring for parties 
involved. So, my going after elegance is not so much whimsical, at least 
not from my point of view. I believe there is something more to it than 
just esthetics.

Just in case - I am not voting for changes in Python. Quite far from this. 
Only expressing my opinions etc. As I have already mentioned in some other 
posts of mine, Python is good for few things I do and for other things I 
use other tools. That's it.

Regards,
Tomasz Rola

--
** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature.      **
** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home    **
** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened...      **
**                                                                 **
** Tomasz Rola          mailto:tomasz_rola at bigfoot.com             **


From bouncyinc at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 14:38:20 2009
From: bouncyinc at gmail.com (John Haggerty)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 12:38:20 -0600
Subject: What python can NOT do?
In-Reply-To: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Theoretically a microkernel could be used to do the stuff python directly
couldn't do and the rest could be done once an interpreter was loaded in
theory.

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 4:37 PM, qwe rty  wrote:

> i know that an interpreted language like python can't be used to make
> an operating system or system drivers.
>
> what else can NOT be done in python? what are the limitations of the
> language?
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From philip at semanchuk.com  Sat Aug 29 14:46:15 2009
From: philip at semanchuk.com (Philip Semanchuk)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 14:46:15 -0400
Subject: Combining C and Python programs
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <0BBCF0D2-789B-4FD2-B5E6-AE81C07A6273@semanchuk.com>


On Aug 29, 2009, at 3:54 AM, Sortie wrote:

> I want to write a program that will use ode for the physics
> simulation, whose python bindings are outdated. So I'm writing
> the physics engine in C and want to write the drawing code in
> Python. What will be the best way of making those two programs
> work together? THe physics engine won't have to run concurrently
> with the drawing code. It will only return some position data so
> they can be drawn.


I'd look at ctypes first, as Hendrik suggested. It's pretty simple and  
part of the standard library.

If that doesn't work for you for some reason and you're willing to use  
something outside of the standard library, you might find Cython useful.


Good luck
Philip


From diogo.neves at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 14:54:09 2009
From: diogo.neves at gmail.com (Diogo Neves)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 19:54:09 +0100
Subject: IDE for Python
In-Reply-To: <000e0cd20f80b36a6104724bb134@google.com>
References: <7aa29e790908290214ode909c8od898918e86759daf@mail.gmail.com>
	<000e0cd20f80b36a6104724bb134@google.com>
Message-ID: 

Is IDLE (the editor that comes with Python) good? I'm just starting now, but
it looks ok.

2009/8/29 

> 29.08.2009 4:14 ???????????? "Thangappan.M" 
> ???????:
> > Dear all,
> >
> >
> >            Please suggest some good IDE for python.I am working in linux
> platform.
> >
> > --
> > Regards,
> > Thangappan.M
> >
>
> You can use Eclipse + PyDev or Emacs+PythonMode . Also there are Anjuta and
> Code:Blocks, but they are designed mainly for C++ (but still can be used).
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
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From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Aug 29 15:03:23 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 29 Aug 2009 19:03:23 GMT
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: <0022fef9$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 11:11:43 -0700, zaur wrote:

> I thought that int as object will stay the same object after += but with
> another integer value. My intuition said me that int object which
> represent integer value should behave this way.

If it did, then you would have this behaviour:


>>> n = 3                     # bind the name n to the object 3
>>> saved_id = id(n)          # get the id of the object
>>> n += 1                    # add one to the object 3
>>> assert n == 4             # confirm that it has value four
>>> assert id(n) == saved_id  # confirm that it is the same object
>>> m = 3                     # bind the name m to the object 3
>>> print m + 1               # but object 3 has been modified
5

This would be pretty disturbing behaviour, and anything but intuitive.

Fortunately, Python avoids this behaviour by making ints immutable. You 
can't change the object 3 to have any other value, it will always have 
value three, and consequently n+=1 assigns a new object to n.


-- 
Steven


From nobody at nowhere.com  Sat Aug 29 15:09:12 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 20:09:12 +0100
Subject: (Simple?) Unicode Question
References: <332972a20908270939m57be4e51tc5785b880ec642b3@mail.gmail.com>
	
	
	<002269cb$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 08:26:54 +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> Python only needs to know when you convert the text to or from bytes. I 
> can do this:
> 
>>>> s = "hello"
>>>> t = "world"
>>>> print(' '.join([s, t]))
> hello world
> 
> and not need to care anything about encodings.
> 
> So long as your terminal has a sensible encoding, and you have a good 
> quality font, you should be able to print any string you can create.

UTF-8 isn't a particularly sensible encoding for terminals.

And "Unicode font" is an oxymoron. You can merge a whole bunch of fonts
together and stuff them into a TTF file; that doesn't make them "a font",
though.

>>> I may be wrong, but I believe that's part of the idea between
>>> separation of string and bytes types in Python 3.x. I believe, if you
>>> are using Python 3.x, you don't need the character encoding mumbo jumbo
>>> at all ;-)
>> 
>> Nothing has changed in that regard. You still need to decode and encode
>> text and for that you have to know the encoding.
> 
> You only need to worry about encoding when you convert from bytes to 
> text, and visa versa. Admittedly, the most common time you need to do 
> that is when reading input from files, but if all your text strings are 
> generated by Python, and not output anywhere, you shouldn't need to care 
> about encodings.

Why would you generate text strings and not output them anywhere?

The main advantage of using Unicode internally is that you can associate
encodings with the specific points where data needs to be converted
to/from bytes, rather than having to carry the encoding details around the
program.



From nobody at nowhere.com  Sat Aug 29 15:19:36 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 20:19:36 +0100
Subject: Query screen resolution?
References: <7d57e7c2-39bf-4515-8642-6bcbeba0492c@u16g2000pru.googlegroups.com>
	
	<409bf880-4e4b-48f4-8cfc-ecacf262d782@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 20:15:57 -0700, Warpcat wrote:

>> Your question is based upon the notion that "the screen" is a meaningful
>> concept. Once you move away from Windows (and systems which intentionally
>> try to be like Windows), that's no longer true.
> 
> Good points.  Always something I haven't thought of.  Ok so... let's
> *presume* the user has a measurable screen on win\mac\linux\etc since
> on any other OS they wouldn't be running the app....

If it's a GUI app, you ask the GUI toolkit which you're using.

[And if it isn't a GUI app, why would the screen resolution be relevant?]



From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sat Aug 29 15:31:39 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 12:31:39 -0700
Subject: how to edit .wsgi file extebtions with IDLE on windows
In-Reply-To: <58a021ce-3058-483d-b429-6ba4855807ac@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	<58a021ce-3058-483d-b429-6ba4855807ac@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908291231l75e91893lffe18bc9d46f617a@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 5:40 AM, gert wrote:
> On Aug 29, 6:43?am, "Gabriel Genellina" 
> wrote:
>> En Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:31:31 -0300, gert  escribi?:
>>
>> > I can't figure out how to enable the .py shell and syntax highlighting
>> > for .wsgi file extensions using IDLE for windows ?
>>
>> That's a Windows question, not a Python one. You have to associate the
>> .wsgi extension with the Python.File file type (the one used for .py
>> files):
>>
>> D:\USERDATA\Gabriel>assoc .py
>> .py=Python.File
>>
>> D:\USERDATA\Gabriel>assoc .wsgi=Python.File
>> .wsgi=Python.File
>>
>
> Thanks that does make it open exactly like a .py file, expect that
> there is no syntax highlighting. Don't know if this is also a windows
> issue or a IDLE issue ?

That's an IDLE issue; it only highlights files with .py (and possibly
.pyw) extensions.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Aug 29 15:33:45 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 29 Aug 2009 12:33:45 -0700
Subject: Select column from a list
References: <25185508.post@talk.nabble.com>
	<9fdb569a0908280228g59038ba1u30d6d5ef9d6a80ca@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
Anthra Norell   wrote:
>Vlastimil Brom wrote:
>> 2009/8/28 hoffik :
>>>
>>> I'm quite new in Python and I have one question. I have a 2D matrix of
>>> values stored in list (3 columns, many rows). I wonder if I can select one
>>> column without having to go through the list with 'for' command.
>>
>> I guess, it won't be possible without an explicit or implicit loop;
>> you may try:
>>   
>>>>> from operator import itemgetter
>>>>> nested_list = [[1, 2, 3], [10, 20, 30], [100, 200, 300]]
>>>>> map(itemgetter(1), nested_list)
>>         
>> [2, 20, 200]
>   
>How about rotating the list with zip?
> >>> zip (*nested_list)[1]
>(2, 20, 200)

That's an implicit loop, plus it consumes an O(M*N) chunk of memory for
the intermediate list.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I support family values -- Addams family values" --www.nancybuttons.com


From vlastimil.brom at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 15:43:58 2009
From: vlastimil.brom at gmail.com (Vlastimil Brom)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 21:43:58 +0200
Subject: break unichr instead of fix ord?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4A95A4D1.9060008@v.loewis.de>
	
	<4A961EE1.9010103@v.loewis.de>
	<65e6c430-9dc4-4a90-8448-f8f587d19750@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4a979172$0$11759$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	
Message-ID: <9fdb569a0908291243l9c33dbeu61debb104d2c13fc@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/29  :
> On 08/28/2009 02:12 AM, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote:
>
> So far, it seems not and that unichr/ord
> is a poster child for "purity beats practicality".
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

As Mark Tolonen pointed out earlier in this thread, in Python 3 the
practicality apparently beat purity in this aspect:

Python 3.1.1 (r311:74483, Aug 17 2009, 17:02:12) [MSC v.1500 32 bit
(Intel)] on win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license()" for more information.

>>> goth_urus_1 = '\U0001033f'
>>> list(goth_urus_1)
['\ud800', '\udf3f']
>>> len(goth_urus_1)
2
>>> ord(goth_urus_1)
66367
>>> goth_urus_2 = chr(66367)
>>> len(goth_urus_2)
2
>>> import unicodedata
>>> unicodedata.name(goth_urus_1)
'GOTHIC LETTER URUS'
>>> goth_urus_3 = unicodedata.lookup("GOTHIC LETTER URUS")
>>> goth_urus_4 = "\N{GOTHIC LETTER URUS}"
>>> goth_urus_1 == goth_urus_2 == goth_urus_3 == goth_urus_4
True
>>>

As for the behaviour in python 2.x, it's probably good enough, that
the surrogates aren't prohibited and the eventually needed behaviour
can be easily added via custom functions.

vbr


From nagle at animats.com  Sat Aug 29 15:46:52 2009
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 12:46:52 -0700
Subject: What python can NOT do?
In-Reply-To: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a998465$0$1637$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

qwe rty wrote:
> i know that an interpreted language like python can't be used to make
> an operating system or system drivers.
> 
> what else can NOT be done in python? what are the limitations of the
> language?

    Speed, basically.  CPython is on the slow side.  This is not
inherent in the language; it's an implementation problem.
The Shed Skin compiler is approaching C speeds,
but you have to accept some modest restrictions on run-time dynamism.

    Also, CPython does not use multiple processors well.  In fact,
multiple cores make CPython performance worse.  (There's a long
analysis of this that's been discussed here recently.)

    Personally, I consider Python to be a good language held back by
too-close ties to a naive interpreter implementation and the lack
of a formal standard for the language.

					John Nagle


From ivanko.rus at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 16:08:51 2009
From: ivanko.rus at gmail.com (ivanko.rus at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 20:08:51 +0000
Subject: Python Noob - gui module, book, annoying questions
In-Reply-To: <92cc4ca1-0e0d-4355-8d9a-b4928390e619@q35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <000e0cd117da963eed04724d5ea6@google.com>

29.08.2009 2:20 ???????????? Pherdnut  ???????:
> I want to write cross-platform stuff. Any opinions on the best GUI

> module for that?
There are many options for this. For example GTK+ (pygtk), tkinter, QT.  
GTK+ is a little bit complicated, but you can use glade to make the GUIs.  
Tkinter is built-in and pretty simple (although not so feature-rich). QT -  
ok, I haven't used it. Personally I prefer GTK+ (using pygtk module)
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From webcokies at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 29 16:13:12 2009
From: webcokies at yahoo.com (Joni Lee)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 13:13:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: a popen command line question
Message-ID: <964997.10840.qm@web36907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi all,

I write a small script

status = os.popen('top').readlines()
print status

It calls the command line "top" and will print out the status.
But I have to press the keyboard "q" to quit "top", then the status will be printed, otherwise it just stands by with blank.

Question is. Do you know how to give "q" into my python script so that "top" is automatically quit immediately or maybe after 1s (for gathering information)

Sorry the question is weird.



      
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From gert.cuykens at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 16:14:14 2009
From: gert.cuykens at gmail.com (gert)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 13:14:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: how to edit .wsgi file extebtions with IDLE on windows
References: 
	
	<58a021ce-3058-483d-b429-6ba4855807ac@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <00795942-19ae-4d0e-9259-79ae00c34fc5@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 29, 9:31?pm, Chris Rebert  wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 5:40 AM, gert wrote:
> > On Aug 29, 6:43?am, "Gabriel Genellina" 
> > wrote:
> >> En Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:31:31 -0300, gert  escribi?:
>
> >> > I can't figure out how to enable the .py shell and syntax highlighting
> >> > for .wsgi file extensions using IDLE for windows ?
>
> >> That's a Windows question, not a Python one. You have to associate the
> >> .wsgi extension with the Python.File file type (the one used for .py
> >> files):
>
> >> D:\USERDATA\Gabriel>assoc .py
> >> .py=Python.File
>
> >> D:\USERDATA\Gabriel>assoc .wsgi=Python.File
> >> .wsgi=Python.File
>
> > Thanks that does make it open exactly like a .py file, expect that
> > there is no syntax highlighting. Don't know if this is also a windows
> > issue or a IDLE issue ?
>
> That's an IDLE issue; it only highlights files with .py (and possibly
> .pyw) extensions.
>

Any chance they would make a highlight option in the menu ?


From danb_83 at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 29 16:25:35 2009
From: danb_83 at yahoo.com (AggieDan04)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 13:25:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 29, 8:08?am, Paul McGuire  wrote:
> On Aug 29, 7:45?am, zaur  wrote:
>
> > Python 2.6.2 (r262:71600, Apr 16 2009, 09:17:39)
> > [GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 5250)] on darwin
> > Type "copyright", "credits" or "license()" for more information.>>> a=1
> > >>> x=[a]
> > >>> id(a)==id(x[0])
> > True
> > >>> a+=1
> > >>> a
> > 2
> > >>> x[0]
>
> > 1
>
> > I thought that += should only change the value of the int object. But
> > += create new.
> > Is this intentional?
>
> ints are immutable. ?But your logic works fine with a mutable object,
> like a list:

Technically, mutability isn't the issue: There's nothing enforcing
that a mutable object HAS to have an __iadd__ method that returns the
same object.


From pogonyshev at gmx.net  Sat Aug 29 16:27:03 2009
From: pogonyshev at gmx.net (Paul Pogonyshev)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 23:27:03 +0300
Subject: weak reference callback
Message-ID: <200908292327.03416.pogonyshev@gmx.net>

Hi,

Is weak reference callback called immediately after the referenced
object is deleted or at arbitrary point in time after that?  I.e. is
it possible to see a dead reference before the callback is called?

More formally, will this ever raise?

    callback_called = False
    def note_deletion (ref):
        callback_called = True

    x = ...
    ref = weakref.ref (x, note_deletion)

    ...

    if ref () is None and not callback_called:
        raise RuntimeError ("reference is dead, yet callback hasn't been called yet")

Paul


From sergiocharpinel at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 16:27:45 2009
From: sergiocharpinel at gmail.com (Sergio Charpinel Jr.)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:27:45 -0300
Subject: Sqlite format string
Message-ID: 

Hi,
I have this statement cursor.execute("SELECT * from session_attribute WHERE
sid=%s", ( user ))
and I'm receiving this error :

TypeError: not all arguments converted during string formatting

What is wrong ?
-- 
Sergio Roberto Charpinel Jr.
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From ivanko.rus at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 16:28:26 2009
From: ivanko.rus at gmail.com (ivanko.rus at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 20:28:26 +0000
Subject: Monitoring stdout in (more or less) real time
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <000e0cd2175497123704724da485@google.com>

29.08.2009 2:21 ???????????? Gabriel Genellina   
???????:
> En Sat, 29 Aug 2009 03:28:26 -0300, ivanko.rus at gmail.com> escribi?:




> Hello to everyone! I am making a program that will be a GTK+ frontend to

> ffmpeg. Naturally, one of the main functions is parsing ffmpeg's output.

> It's pretty simple when I, for example, retrieve information about a file

> (the program finishes and I read the output). But it also needs to parse

> working ffmpeg's output (in order to retrieve the percentage, remaining

> time, etc.). So, actually what I do is Popen ffmpeg, and connect to its

> stdout. And as stdout is represented by a file object, it needs to be

> read(). The problem is that read() reads until EOF is reached, which

> doesn't exist while the program is running (the same goes with

> communicate()).

> So my question is: is there a way to retrieve the stdout without waiting

> the program to finish?




> You don't have to read the complete output at once - you may process it  
> line by line, I presume. I'd use a second thread to read the pipe and put  
> the lines onto a Queue object; the main thread gets lines from the Queue  
> when available.



> --

> Gabriel Genellina



> --

> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Thanks, Gabriel, but I resolved that problem in another way. thrashold in  
irc.freenode.net gave me the solution.
What i do now is:

p = Popen(["cmd","arg"],stdout=PIPE,stderr=STDOUT)
fcntl.fcntl(p.stdout.fileno(), fcntl.F_SETFL, os.O_NONBLOCK)
p.stdout.read()

And in that way p.stdout.read() doesn't wait the program to finish, but  
gives me instant response. But anyway, thanks! =)
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From ivanko.rus at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 16:31:38 2009
From: ivanko.rus at gmail.com (ivanko.rus at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 20:31:38 +0000
Subject: IDE for python similar to visual basic
In-Reply-To: <2127e0be-3b93-406f-99a7-5fe02e643b40@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <000e0cd170f00a493904724db0ec@google.com>

29.08.2009 1:32 ???????????? Vivian Wang  ???????:
> On Aug 29, 6:19 am, qwe rty hkh00... at gmail.com> wrote:

> > i have been searching for am IDE for python that is similar to Visual

> > Basic but had no luck.shall you help me please?





> You can try biform:

> http://www.bilive.com/download/Setup_BiForm_V2.1_en.msi.zip



> Demo:

> http://www.bilive.com/demo/BiForm_EN_demo.htm



> More demo:(Chinese version)

> http://www.bilive.com/demo/



> BiForm is a form designer,one designed form will deploy as a PFF file.

> BiReader is a runtime PFF file process engine for end-users.

> Setup file above include BiForm and BiReader.



> Main features:

> *Python as script language,base on QT GUI library

> *Visible form designer

> *Internal database access framework

> *Auto connect database,auto create tables

> *Supports SQLite/Mssql2000/Sybase ASE,not need write diffrent script

> for diffrent database at most time

> *Simple deploy,simple upgrade

> *Different forms can share same tables,they will auto cooperation with

> other forms at runtime.If you want to deploy a new function , not need

> uninstall other forms,deploy the new PFF file is enough .



> --

> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

You can also try Eclipse + PyDev. It's not the same as Visual Studio, and I  
am not sure about the GUI builder, but I think it's what you want.
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From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Sat Aug 29 17:12:06 2009
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 16:12:06 -0500
Subject: Sqlite format string
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A9999A6.4030804@tim.thechases.com>

> I have this statement cursor.execute("SELECT * from session_attribute WHERE
> sid=%s", ( user ))
> and I'm receiving this error :
> 
> TypeError: not all arguments converted during string formatting

Two possibilities occur to me:

1) the 2nd parameter to execute() usually needs to be a tuple (or 
maybe a list), so try

   cursor.execute("select ...", (user, ))

with the extra comma after "user".



2) More likely, check your sqlite3.paramstyle to see what sqlite 
is expecting (it's defined at the module-level):

   import sqlite3
   print sqlite3.paramstyle

Mine here is set to "qmark" which means that sqlite is expecting

   cursor.execute("... WHERE sid=?", (user,))

instead of the "format" style you're using:

   cursor.execute("... WHERE sid=%s", (user,))

as defined in http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0249/



Hope this helps,

-tkc







From lists at cheimes.de  Sat Aug 29 17:14:17 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 23:14:17 +0200
Subject: weak reference callback
In-Reply-To: <200908292327.03416.pogonyshev@gmx.net>
References: <200908292327.03416.pogonyshev@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <4A999A29.4050108@cheimes.de>

Paul Pogonyshev wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Is weak reference callback called immediately after the referenced
> object is deleted or at arbitrary point in time after that?  I.e. is
> it possible to see a dead reference before the callback is called?
> 
> More formally, will this ever raise?
> 
>     callback_called = False
>     def note_deletion (ref):
>         callback_called = True
> 
>     x = ...
>     ref = weakref.ref (x, note_deletion)
> 
>     ...
> 
>     if ref () is None and not callback_called:
>         raise RuntimeError ("reference is dead, yet callback hasn't been called yet")

Yes, you'll definitely see a RuntimeError because you forgot to declare
callback_called as a global variable. :)

Christian


From pogonyshev at gmx.net  Sat Aug 29 17:14:38 2009
From: pogonyshev at gmx.net (Paul Pogonyshev)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 00:14:38 +0300
Subject: weak reference callback
In-Reply-To: <4A999A29.4050108@cheimes.de>
References: <200908292327.03416.pogonyshev@gmx.net>
	<4A999A29.4050108@cheimes.de>
Message-ID: <200908300014.38644.pogonyshev@gmx.net>

Christian Heimes wrote:
> Paul Pogonyshev wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > Is weak reference callback called immediately after the referenced
> > object is deleted or at arbitrary point in time after that?  I.e. is
> > it possible to see a dead reference before the callback is called?
> > 
> > More formally, will this ever raise?
> > 
> >     callback_called = False
> >     def note_deletion (ref):
> >         callback_called = True
> > 
> >     x = ...
> >     ref = weakref.ref (x, note_deletion)
> > 
> >     ...
> > 
> >     if ref () is None and not callback_called:
> >         raise RuntimeError ("reference is dead, yet callback hasn't been called yet")
> 
> Yes, you'll definitely see a RuntimeError because you forgot to declare
> callback_called as a global variable. :)

Thanks.  Any useful answers though?

    callback_called = False
    def note_deletion (ref):
        global callback_called
        callback_called = True

    x = ...
    ref = weakref.ref (x, note_deletion)

    ...

    if ref () is None and not callback_called:
        raise RuntimeError ("reference is dead, yet callback hasn't been called yet")

Paul


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Sat Aug 29 17:16:02 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 18:16:02 -0300
Subject: how to edit .wsgi file extebtions with IDLE on windows
References: 
	
	<58a021ce-3058-483d-b429-6ba4855807ac@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	
	<00795942-19ae-4d0e-9259-79ae00c34fc5@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

En Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:14:14 -0300, gert  escribi?:
> On Aug 29, 9:31?pm, Chris Rebert  wrote:
>> On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 5:40 AM, gert wrote:
>> > On Aug 29, 6:43?am, "Gabriel Genellina" 
>> > wrote:
>> >> En Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:31:31 -0300, gert   
>> escribi?:
>>
>> >> > I can't figure out how to enable the .py shell and syntax  
>> highlighting
>> >> > for .wsgi file extensions using IDLE for windows ?
>>
>> >> That's a Windows question, not a Python one. You have to associate  
>> the
>> >> .wsgi extension with the Python.File file type (the one used for .py
>> >> files):
>>
>> >> D:\USERDATA\Gabriel>assoc .py
>> >> .py=Python.File
>>
>> >> D:\USERDATA\Gabriel>assoc .wsgi=Python.File
>> >> .wsgi=Python.File
>>
>> > Thanks that does make it open exactly like a .py file, expect that
>> > there is no syntax highlighting. Don't know if this is also a windows
>> > issue or a IDLE issue ?
>>
>> That's an IDLE issue; it only highlights files with .py (and possibly
>> .pyw) extensions.
>>
>
> Any chance they would make a highlight option in the menu ?

Two alternatives:

a) Ensure your scripts contain a shebang - no purpose on Windows, but IDLE  
recognizes the file as a Python file. That is, make sure the very first  
line is like this:

#!c:\python26\python.exe

(it must start with #! and contain the word "python" somewhere)

b) Edit IDLE sources:

- Locate the file EditorWindow.py in the idlelib package.

- Add this line near the top:
   import _winreg

- Modify function ispythonsource near line 580 as follows:

     def ispythonsource(self, filename):
         if not filename or os.path.isdir(filename):
             return True
         base, ext = os.path.splitext(os.path.basename(filename))
         if os.path.normcase(ext) in (".py", ".pyw"):
             return True
         ### add these 4 lines ###
         with _winreg.OpenKey(_winreg.HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT, ext) as key:
             ftype = _winreg.QueryValueEx(key, None)[0]
             if ftype.lower() in ("python.file","python.noconfile"):
                 return True
         ### end ###
         try:
             f = open(filename)
             line = f.readline()
             f.close()
         except IOError:
             return False
         return line.startswith('#!') and line.find('python') >= 0



-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From ivanko.rus at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 17:44:10 2009
From: ivanko.rus at gmail.com (ivanko.rus at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 21:44:10 +0000
Subject: Sqlite format string
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <000e0cd2142c6f325d04724eb3c7@google.com>

29.08.2009 15:40 ???????????? "Sergio Charpinel Jr."  
 ???????:
> Thanks.
> Do you know if both of them works for mysql too?

> 2009/8/29 ivanko.rus at gmail.com>

> 29.08.2009 15:27 ???????????? "Sergio Charpinel Jr."  
> sergiocharpinel at gmail.com> ???????:

Actually, this works for any string (it doesn't depend on anything else).  
So you can pass "somestring {0}".format(foo) to any function because the  
string will be formatted _first_ and then passed as an argument. The same  
goes with "somestring %s" % "foo". Both will work
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From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Aug 29 18:23:38 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 29 Aug 2009 15:23:38 -0700
Subject: What python can NOT do?
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4a998465$0$1637$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: 

In article <4a998465$0$1637$742ec2ed at news.sonic.net>,
John Nagle   wrote:
>
>    Personally, I consider Python to be a good language held back by
>too-close ties to a naive interpreter implementation and the lack
>of a formal standard for the language.

Name one language under active development that has not been harmed by a
formal standard.  (I think C doesn't count -- there was relatively little
development of C after the standards process started.)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I support family values -- Addams family values" --www.nancybuttons.com


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Sat Aug 29 18:26:38 2009
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:26:38 -0500
Subject: Sqlite format string
In-Reply-To: <000e0cd2142c6f325d04724eb3c7@google.com>
References: 
	<000e0cd2142c6f325d04724eb3c7@google.com>
Message-ID: <4A99AB1E.5040600@tim.thechases.com>

ivanko.rus at gmail.com wrote:
> 29.08.2009 15:40 ???????????? "Sergio Charpinel Jr."  
>  ???????:
>> Thanks.
>> Do you know if both of them works for mysql too?
> 
>> 2009/8/29 ivanko.rus at gmail.com>
> 
>> 29.08.2009 15:27 ???????????? "Sergio Charpinel Jr."  
>> sergiocharpinel at gmail.com> ???????:
> 
> Actually, this works for any string (it doesn't depend on anything else).  
> So you can pass "somestring {0}".format(foo) to any function because the  
> string will be formatted _first_ and then passed as an argument. The same  
> goes with "somestring %s" % "foo". Both will work

Bad idea when assembling SQL, unless you _like_ SQL-injection 
attacks:

  sql = "select * from users where name='%s' and password='%s'"

  # get some values from an untrusted user:
  name = "administrator"
  password = "' or 1=1; drop table users; --"

  cursor.execute(sql % (name, password))
  # uh-oh!

This is why it's so important to use the DB API's own escaping 
functions.

-tkc







From ivanko.rus at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 18:40:46 2009
From: ivanko.rus at gmail.com (ivanko.rus at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 22:40:46 +0000
Subject: Sqlite format string
In-Reply-To: <4A99AB1E.5040600@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <000e0cd2142ce07bf104724f7d3b@google.com>

29.08.2009 17:26 ???????????? Tim Chase   
???????:
> ivanko.rus at gmail.com wrote:


> 29.08.2009 15:40 ???????????? "Sergio Charpinel Jr."  
> sergiocharpinel at gmail.com> ???????:


> Thanks.

> Do you know if both of them works for mysql too?





> 2009/8/29 ivanko.rus at gmail.com>





> 29.08.2009 15:27 ???????????? "Sergio Charpinel Jr."  
> sergiocharpinel at gmail.com> ???????:




> Actually, this works for any string (it doesn't depend on anything else).  
> So you can pass "somestring {0}".format(foo) to any function because the  
> string will be formatted _first_ and then passed as an argument. The same  
> goes with "somestring %s" % "foo". Both will work




> Bad idea when assembling SQL, unless you _like_ SQL-injection attacks:



> sql = "select * from users where name='%s' and password='%s'"



> # get some values from an untrusted user:

> name = "administrator"

> password = "' or 1=1; drop table users; --"



> cursor.execute(sql % (name, password))

> # uh-oh!



> This is why it's so important to use the DB API's own escaping functions.



> -tkc
Sergio, Tim Chase is absolutely right! What you can do here is check every  
field separately OR you can modify the format() method to automatically do  
that. In the second case, you need to create your method first and then  
assign it to the str.format method like that: str.format =  
your_format_method . Note that there are NO parenthesis. For more details,  
look at this recipe: http://code.activestate.com/recipes/92823/ . I think  
it will simplify the things for you later, as every time you will call the  
str.format method, the values will be checked automatically.
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From rt8396 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 18:46:31 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 15:46:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
Message-ID: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>

I was reading the thread here...
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/db90a9629b92aab0/b0385050b4c6c84e?hl=en&lnk=raot#b0385050b4c6c84e

and it raised some fundamental philophosical questions to me about
natural languages and Unicode. Which IMO * Unicode* is simply a monkey
patch for this soup of multiple languages we have to deal with in
programming and communication.

Unicode (*puke*) seems nothing more than a brain fart of morons. And
sadly it was created by CS majors who i assumed used logic and
deductive reasoning but i must be wrong. Why should the larger world
keep supporting such antiquated languages and character sets through
Unicode? What purpose does this serve? Are we merely trying to make
everyone happy? A sort of Utopian free-language-love-fest-kinda-
thing?

But there is a larger problem that is at the heart of Unicode itself,
and it has to do with this multi-language/multi-culture world we live
in. Even today in 2009 AD with all our technology and advancements we
still live in a dark ages of societal communication. Of the many
things that divide us such as race, color, religion, geography, blah,
the most perplexing and devastating seems to be why have we not
accepted a single global language for all to speak.

Take for instance the Chinese language with it's thousands of
characters and BS, it's more of an art than a language.  Why do we
need such complicated languages in this day and time. Many languages
have been perfected, (although not perfect) far beyond that of Chinese
language. The A-Z char set is flawless!

Some may say well how can we possibly force countries/people to speak/
code in a uniform manner? Well that's simple, you just stop supporting
their cryptic languages by dumping Unicode and returning to the
beautiful ASCII and adopting English as the universal world language.
Why English? Well because it is so widely spoken. But whatever we
choose just choose one language and stick with it, perfect it, and
maintain it.

IMO Multiple languages are barriers to communication, collaboration,
and the continuation of our future evolution as intelligent Human
beings and this language multiplicity will comprise our future until
it is reigned in and utterly destroyed. And i think most of you are
missing how important this really is to our future. And so these
problems bring me to the main subject of this thread "Unicode Sucks"

Now you may say to yourself "I am not a sociologist i am a programmer,
so why should i give a flying fig about natural languages or Unicode,
i just accept things as they are". Well yes you could just go on
accepting the status quo that is surely the easy route, but your life
would be so much easier if you crusaded for change.

BUT STOP!, before i go any further i want to respond to what i know
will be condemnation from the sociology nuts out there. Yes
multiculturalism is great, yes art is great, but if you can't see how
the ability to communicate is severely damperd by multi-languages then
you only *feel* with your heart but you apparently have no ability to
reason with your mind intelligently.

[nested thoughts]
A few months ago i was watching some tear-jerking documentary called
something like "Save the Languages" or "The dying languages" blah! In
the documentary these two bleeding-heart-ivy-leaguers were running all
over the world to document some obscure languages that were on the
verge of extinction. And at one utterly amazing point in the episode
they start crying and moaning for the loss of these languages like
their own mother had died a horrible death. I watched all this in much
horror and disbelief with jaw-dropped and i am still scared by the
thought that people actually buy into this BS! Has the world gone mad?

[back on track]
The death of a language is as natural as the death of a flower, or a
fish, or even the ever long oxidation of aluminum coke can. When a
life form dies it brings life to the next generation. With languages,
each death compiles upon the last and we are one step closer to the
unifying language that we all so disparately need. We should herald
the death of the languages like the jazz funerals of New Orleans with
much happiness and fanfare for there is no reason to be sad.

It's called evolution people! Ever heard of science? So ditch the
useless Unicode and save us all a few keystrokes and bottles of
aspirin for the persistent headaches! Simplicity is beautiful!!


From exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  Sat Aug 29 19:07:17 2009
From: exarkun at twistedmatrix.com (exarkun at twistedmatrix.com)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 23:07:17 -0000
Subject: What python can NOT do?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4a998465$0$1637$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	
Message-ID: <20090829230717.14429.2004501285.divmod.xquotient.10@localhost.localdomain>

On 10:23 pm, aahz at pythoncraft.com wrote:
>In article <4a998465$0$1637$742ec2ed at news.sonic.net>,
>John Nagle   wrote:
>>
>>    Personally, I consider Python to be a good language held back by
>>too-close ties to a naive interpreter implementation and the lack
>>of a formal standard for the language.
>
>Name one language under active development that has not been harmed by 
>a
>formal standard.  (I think C doesn't count -- there was relatively 
>little
>development of C after the standards process started.)

I think you must mean "harmed by a formal standard more than it has been 
helped", since that's clearly the interesting thing.

And it's a pretty difficult question to answer.  How do you quantify the 
harm done to a language by a standarization process?  How do you 
quantify the help?  These are extremely difficult things to measure 
objectively.

For my part, I will agree with John.  I feel like Python's big 
shortcomings stem from the areas he mentioned.  They're related to each 
other as well - the lack of a standard hampers the development of a less 
naive interpreter (either one based on CPython or another one).  It 
doesn't completely prevent such development (obviously, as CPython 
continues to undergo development, and there are a number of alternate 
runtimes for Python-like languages), but there's clearly a cost 
associated with the fact that in order to do this development, a lot of 
time has to be spent figuring out what Python *is*.  This is the kind of 
thing that a standard would help with.

Jean-Paul


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 19:12:26 2009
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 16:12:26 -0700
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
In-Reply-To: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c20908291612o4f134743h84753572dd71026@mail.gmail.com>

>
> Unicode (*puke*) seems nothing more than a brain fart of morons. And
> sadly it was created by CS majors who i assumed used logic and
> deductive reasoning but i must be wrong. Why should the larger world
> keep supporting such antiquated languages and character sets through
> Unicode? What purpose does this serve? Are we merely trying to make
> everyone happy? A sort of Utopian free-language-love-fest-kinda-
> thing?
>

One really shouldn't consider Xah Lee a role model and seek to imitate
(poorly) his rants.

The Real World isn't going away just because you think we should stick our
heads in the sand and pretend it's not there. There are billions of people
out there who are quite happy with their language, and I'd rather keep them
as a customer, thanks.

--S
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From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Sat Aug 29 19:22:03 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 20:22:03 -0300
Subject: Object's nesting scope
References: 
	<7fkqodF2llnghU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<1ea2a98f-4035-4ec6-b5a9-06b21dd6f584@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4a97c851$0$307$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<440b8caf-27f9-49d4-8d1b-94f93c75eb23@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	
	<9205fd44-90ec-4ce6-be2a-2f82dd99e13e@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

En Sat, 29 Aug 2009 04:34:48 -0300, zaur  escribi?:
> On 29 ???, 08:37, "Gabriel Genellina"  wrote:
>> En Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:25:55 -0300, zaur  escribi?:
>> > On 28 ???, 16:07, Bruno Desthuilliers > > 42.desthuilli... at websiteburo.invalid> wrote:
>> >> zaur a ?crit :
>>
>> >> > Ok. Here is a use case: object initialization.
>>
>> >> Err... Looks like you really should read the FineManual(tm) -
>> >> specifically, the parts on the __init__ method.
>>
>> > What are you doing if 1) classes Person and Address imported from
>> > foreign module 2) __init__ method is not defined as you want?
>>
>> Welcome to dynamic languages! It doesn't matter *where* the class was ?
>> defined. You may add new attributes to the instance (even methods to  
>> the class) at any time. [...4 examples...]
>
> I know about these ways of object initializing. What I said is about
> using object's dictionary as nested scope in code block. Object
> initialization is just one use case.
> So we say about different things.

Well, you asked how to proceed in certain cases and I showed several ways  
it can be done right now, without requiring a new scope. You'll have to  
think of another use case.

Attribute lookup is explicit in Python, and that's a very good thing. If  
you follow the python-ideas thread posted earlier, you'll see the kind of  
problems an implicit attribute lookup would cause. The "with" statement is  
necesary (and a good thing) in Pascal, but not in Python.

Zope2 departs from this explicitness: it has a  construct  
(similar to what you propose), and I hate it profoundly every time I have  
to edit a DTML file - I can never tell *where* an attribute comes from.  
Another related "feature" is acquisition, a stack of namespaces where  
objects "inherit" attributes from their containers. Same thing, a complete  
waste of time every time I have to track a bug.

Unless you can find a very compeling use case, I don't think this feature  
will become part of the language anytime soon...

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From gert.cuykens at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 19:29:43 2009
From: gert.cuykens at gmail.com (gert)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 16:29:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: how to edit .wsgi file extebtions with IDLE on windows
References: 
	
	<58a021ce-3058-483d-b429-6ba4855807ac@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	
	<00795942-19ae-4d0e-9259-79ae00c34fc5@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <00cc1c86-0100-44d2-af4b-5a5652e934c2@e18g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 29, 11:16?pm, "Gabriel Genellina" 
wrote:
> En Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:14:14 -0300, gert  escribi?:
>
> > On Aug 29, 9:31?pm, Chris Rebert  wrote:
> >> On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 5:40 AM, gert wrote:
> >> > On Aug 29, 6:43?am, "Gabriel Genellina" 
> >> > wrote:
> >> >> En Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:31:31 -0300, gert  ?
> >> escribi?:
>
> >> >> > I can't figure out how to enable the .py shell and syntax ?
> >> highlighting
> >> >> > for .wsgi file extensions using IDLE for windows ?
>
> >> >> That's a Windows question, not a Python one. You have to associate ?
> >> the
> >> >> .wsgi extension with the Python.File file type (the one used for .py
> >> >> files):
>
> >> >> D:\USERDATA\Gabriel>assoc .py
> >> >> .py=Python.File
>
> >> >> D:\USERDATA\Gabriel>assoc .wsgi=Python.File
> >> >> .wsgi=Python.File
>
> >> > Thanks that does make it open exactly like a .py file, expect that
> >> > there is no syntax highlighting. Don't know if this is also a windows
> >> > issue or a IDLE issue ?
>
> >> That's an IDLE issue; it only highlights files with .py (and possibly
> >> .pyw) extensions.
>
> > Any chance they would make a highlight option in the menu ?
>
> Two alternatives:
>
> a) Ensure your scripts contain a shebang - no purpose on Windows, but IDLE ?
> recognizes the file as a Python file. That is, make sure the very first ?
> line is like this:
>
> #!c:\python26\python.exe
>
> (it must start with #! and contain the word "python" somewhere)
>
> b) Edit IDLE sources:
>
> - Locate the file EditorWindow.py in the idlelib package.
>
> - Add this line near the top:
> ? ?import _winreg
>
> - Modify function ispythonsource near line 580 as follows:
>
> ? ? ?def ispythonsource(self, filename):
> ? ? ? ? ?if not filename or os.path.isdir(filename):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?return True
> ? ? ? ? ?base, ext = os.path.splitext(os.path.basename(filename))
> ? ? ? ? ?if os.path.normcase(ext) in (".py", ".pyw"):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?return True
> ? ? ? ? ?### add these 4 lines ###
> ? ? ? ? ?with _winreg.OpenKey(_winreg.HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT, ext) as key:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?ftype = _winreg.QueryValueEx(key, None)[0]
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?if ftype.lower() in ("python.file","python.noconfile"):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?return True
> ? ? ? ? ?### end ###
> ? ? ? ? ?try:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?f = open(filename)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?line = f.readline()
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?f.close()
> ? ? ? ? ?except IOError:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?return False
> ? ? ? ? ?return line.startswith('#!') and line.find('python') >= 0
>

Thanks. Can you make a ispythonsource menu option in the next
python3.x release? There are many examples of txt, xml or wsgi files
having python parts in them.


From cjns1989 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 20:07:19 2009
From: cjns1989 at gmail.com (Chris Jones)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 20:07:19 -0400
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c20908291612o4f134743h84753572dd71026@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	<7a9c25c20908291612o4f134743h84753572dd71026@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090830000719.GA30241@turki.gavron.org>

On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 07:12:26PM EDT, Stephen Hansen wrote:
> >
> > Unicode (*puke*) seems nothing more than a brain fart of morons. And
> > sadly it was created by CS majors who i assumed used logic and
> > deductive reasoning but i must be wrong. Why should the larger world
> > keep supporting such antiquated languages and character sets through
> > Unicode? What purpose does this serve? Are we merely trying to make
> > everyone happy? A sort of Utopian free-language-love-fest-kinda-
> > thing?
> >
> 
> One really shouldn't consider Xah Lee a role model and seek to imitate
> (poorly) his rants.

:-)

CJ


From rurpy at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 29 20:12:24 2009
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:12:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: break unichr instead of fix ord?
References: <2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4A95A4D1.9060008@v.loewis.de>
	
	<4A961EE1.9010103@v.loewis.de>
	<65e6c430-9dc4-4a90-8448-f8f587d19750@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4a979172$0$11759$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	
	<0022f1a7$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

On 08/29/2009 12:06 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
[...]
>>  The reasons for the current behavior so far:
>>
>>  1.
>>>  What you propose would break the property "unichr(i) always returns a
>>>  string of length one, if it returns anything at all".
>>
>>  Yes.  And i don't see the problem with that.  Why is that property more
>>  desirable than the non-existent property that a Unicode literal always
>>  produces one python character?
>
> What do you mean? Unicode literals don't always produce one character,
> e.g. u'abcd' is a Unicode literal with four characters.

I'm sorry, I should have been clearer.  I meant the literal
representation of a *single* unicode character.  u'\u4000'
which results in a string of length 1, vs u'\U00010040' which
results in a string of length 2.  In both case the literal
represents a single unicode code point.

> I think it's fairly self-evident that a function called uniCHR [emphasis
> added] should return a single character (technically a single code
> point).

There are two concepts of characters here, the 16-bit things
that encodes a character in a Python unicode string (in a
narrow build Python), and a character in the sense of one
of the ~2**10 unicode characters.  Python has chosen to
represent the latter (when outside the BMP) as a pair of
surrogate characters from the former.  I don't see why one
would assume that CHR would mean the python 16-bit
character concept rather than the full unicode character
concept.  In fact, rather the opposite.

> But even if you can come up with a reason for unichr() to return
> two or more characters,

I've given a number of reasons why it should return a two
character representation of a non-BMP character, one of
which is that that is how Python has chosen to represent
such characters internally.  I won't repeat the other
reasons again.

I'm not sure why you think more than two characters
would ever be possible.

> this would break code that relies on the
> documented promise that the length of the output of unichr() is always
> one.

Ah, OK.  This is the good reason I was looking for.
I did not realize (until prompted by your remark
to go back and look at the early docs) that unichr
had been documented to return a single character
since 2.0 and that wide character support was added
in 2.2.  Martin v. Loewis also implied that, I now
see, although the implication was too deep for me
to pick up.

So although it leads to a suboptimal situation, I
agree that maintaining the documented behavior was
necessary.

[...]
> I would much rather see a pair of new functions, wideord() and
> widechr() used for converting between surrogate pairs and numbers.

I guess if it were still 2001 and Python 2.2 was
coming out I would be in favor of this too. :-)


From walkraft at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 20:12:45 2009
From: walkraft at gmail.com (casebash)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:12:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Determining the metaclass
Message-ID: <6f69f304-3cf1-45c8-b86d-f57751bcc2ed@d15g2000prc.googlegroups.com>

Hi all,

I cannot determine if a class is an instance of a particular
metaclass. Here is my best attempt

>>> class tmp(type):
...     pass
...
>>> def c(metaclass=tmp):
...     pass
...
>>> isinstance(c, tmp)
False
>>> isinstance(c.__class__, tmp)
False

Can anyone explain why this fails?

Thanks very much,

Chris


From rurpy at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 29 20:16:30 2009
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:16:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: break unichr instead of fix ord?
References: <2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4A95A4D1.9060008@v.loewis.de>
	
	<4A961EE1.9010103@v.loewis.de>
	<65e6c430-9dc4-4a90-8448-f8f587d19750@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4a979172$0$11759$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	
	
Message-ID: <55a533a7-20ab-42ed-b2c7-74706d7d5451@p36g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>

On 08/29/2009 01:43 PM, Vlastimil Brom wrote:
> > 2009/8/29:
>> >>  On 08/28/2009 02:12 AM, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote:
>> >>
>> >>  So far, it seems not and that unichr/ord
>> >>  is a poster child for "purity beats practicality".
>> >>  --
>> >>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>> >>
> >
> > As Mark Tolonen pointed out earlier in this thread, in Python 3 the
> > practicality apparently beat purity in this aspect:
> >
> > Python 3.1.1 (r311:74483, Aug 17 2009, 17:02:12) [MSC v.1500 32 bit
> > (Intel)] on win32
> > Type "copyright", "credits" or "license()" for more information.
> >
>>>> >>>>  goth_urus_1 = '\U0001033f'
>>>> >>>>  list(goth_urus_1)
> > ['\ud800', '\udf3f']
>>>> >>>>  len(goth_urus_1)
> > 2
>>>> >>>>  ord(goth_urus_1)
> > 66367
>>>> >>>>  goth_urus_2 = chr(66367)
>>>> >>>>  len(goth_urus_2)
> > 2
>>>> >>>>  import unicodedata
>>>> >>>>  unicodedata.name(goth_urus_1)
> > 'GOTHIC LETTER URUS'
>>>> >>>>  goth_urus_3 = unicodedata.lookup("GOTHIC LETTER URUS")
>>>> >>>>  goth_urus_4 = "\N{GOTHIC LETTER URUS}"
>>>> >>>>  goth_urus_1 == goth_urus_2 == goth_urus_3 == goth_urus_4
> > True
>>>> >>>>

Yes, that certainly seems like much more sensible behavior.

> > As for the behaviour in python 2.x, it's probably good enough, that
> > the surrogates aren't prohibited and the eventually needed behaviour
> > can be easily added via custom functions.

Yes, I agree that given the current behavior is well documented
and further, is fixed in python 3, it can't be changed.

I would a nit though with "can be easily added via custom
functions."
I don't think that is a good criterion for rejection of functionality
from the library because it is not sufficient; their are many
functions
in the library that fail that test.  I think the criterion should
be more like a ratio: (how often needed) / (ease of writing).
[where "ease" is not just the line count but also the obviousness
to someone who is not a python expert yet.]

And I would also dispute that the generalized unichr/ord functions
are "easily" added.  When I ran into the TypeError in ord(), I
thought "surrogate pairs" were something used in sex therapy. :-)
It took a lot of reading and research before I was able to write
a generalized ord() function.


From walkraft at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 20:18:46 2009
From: walkraft at gmail.com (casebash)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:18:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Why does this group have so much spam?
Message-ID: <7294bf8b-9819-4b6d-92b2-afc1c8042a06@x6g2000prc.googlegroups.com>

So much of it could be removed even by simple keyword filtering.


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Sat Aug 29 20:20:47 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:20:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 30, 8:46?am, r  wrote:
>
> Take for instance the Chinese language with it's thousands of
> characters and BS, it's more of an art than a language. ?Why do we
> need such complicated languages in this day and time. Many languages
> have been perfected, (although not perfect) far beyond that of Chinese
> language.

The Chinese language is more widely spoken than English, is quite
capable of expression in ASCII ("r tongzhi shi sha gua") and doesn't
have those pesky it's/its problems.

> The A-Z char set is flawless!

... for expressing the sounds of a very limited number of languages,
and English is *NOT* one of those.


From nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 20:22:26 2009
From: nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 00:22:26 GMT
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
In-Reply-To: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6Djmm.14757$ze1.10295@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

r:

> Unicode (*puke*) seems nothing more than a brain fart of morons. And
> sadly it was created by CS majors who i assumed used logic and
> deductive reasoning but i must be wrong. Why should the larger world
> keep supporting such antiquated languages and character sets through
> Unicode? What purpose does this serve? Are we merely trying to make
> everyone happy? A sort of Utopian free-language-love-fest-kinda-
> thing?

   Wow, I like this world you live in: all that altruism! Unicode was
developed by corporations from the US left coast in order to sell their
products in foreign markets at minimal cost.

   Neil


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 20:31:19 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:31:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Determining the metaclass
References: <6f69f304-3cf1-45c8-b86d-f57751bcc2ed@d15g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3e1b7e0b-e44c-4b34-9866-33aa7b33a3af@v37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 29, 5:12?pm, casebash  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I cannot determine if a class is an instance of a particular
> metaclass. Here is my best attempt
>
> >>> class tmp(type):
>
> ... ? ? pass
> ...>>> def c(metaclass=tmp):
>
> ... ? ? pass
> ...>>> isinstance(c, tmp)
> False
> >>> isinstance(c.__class__, tmp)
>
> False
>
> Can anyone explain why this fails?

You're gonna kick yourself.

It's because you used "def" and not "class" to define c.  If you'd
used "class" then then first test would have worked.


Carl Banks





From sccolbert at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 20:39:31 2009
From: sccolbert at gmail.com (Chris Colbert)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 20:39:31 -0400
Subject: Permanently adding to the Python path in Ubuntu
Message-ID: <7f014ea60908291739r70f724fbw626c32265198b5ae@mail.gmail.com>

I'm having an issue with sys.path on Ubuntu. I want some of my home
built packages to overshadow the system packages. Namely, I have built
numpy 1.3.0 from source with atlas support, and I need it to
overshadow the system numpy 1.2.1 which I had to drag along as a
dependency for other stuff. I have numpy 1.3.0 installed into
/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/. The issue is that this
directory is added to the path after the
/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/ is added, so python doesnt see my
version of numpy.

I have been combating this with a line in my .bashrc file:

export PYTHONPATH=/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages

So when I start python from the shell, everything works fine.

Problems show up when python is not executed from the shell, and thus
the path variable is never exported. This can occur when I have
launcher in the gnome panel or i'm executing from within wing-ide.

Is there a way to fix this so that the local dist-packages is added to
sys.path before the system directory ALWAYS? I can do this by editing
site.py but I think it's kind of bad form to do it this way. I feel
there has to be a way to do this without root privileges.

Any ideas?

Cheers,

Chris


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 20:40:42 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:40:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <1c10c974-beb6-4e71-90dd-4f23aa6c70a9@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 29, 7:20?pm, John Machin  wrote:
> On Aug 30, 8:46?am, r  wrote:
> The Chinese language is more widely spoken than English, is quite
> capable of expression in ASCII ("r tongzhi shi sha gua") and doesn't
> have those pesky it's/its problems.

Oh yes of course it is the most widely spoken amongst Chinese people
since one in every five people on this earth are Chinese. What i meant
to say was that English language is more widespread outside of
"normal" English speaking countries -- of course as a result of
colonialism, and arguably, imperialism. ;)


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 21:03:12 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 18:03:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Why does this group have so much spam?
References: <7294bf8b-9819-4b6d-92b2-afc1c8042a06@x6g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 29, 7:18?pm, casebash  wrote:
> So much of it could be removed even by simple keyword filtering.

A more interesting question is what morons are responding to this spam
and enticing the spammers to proliferate their garbage? Do people
actually see a spam like "Phallus enlargement pills" and say to
themself "Alright!, just what i been looking for!". I guess i just
can't understand foolishness...

Yes i agree, far to much spam is getting through.


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 21:30:34 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 18:30:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	<6Djmm.14757$ze1.10295@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 29, 7:22?pm, Neil Hodgson 
wrote:

> ? ?Wow, I like this world you live in: all that altruism!

Well if i don't who will? *shrugs*

> Unicode was
> developed by corporations from the US left coast in order to sell their
> products in foreign markets at minimal cost.

So why the heck are we supporting such capitalistic implementations as
Unicode. Sure we must support a winders installer but Unicode, dump
it! We don't support a Python group in Chinese or French, so why this?
Makes no sense to me really. Let M$ deal with it.


From benjamin at python.org  Sat Aug 29 21:38:50 2009
From: benjamin at python.org (Benjamin Peterson)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 01:38:50 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	<6Djmm.14757$ze1.10295@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: 

Neil Hodgson  gmail.com> writes:

\\
> 
> Unicode was
> developed by corporations from the US left coast in order to sell their
> products in foreign markets at minimal cost.

Like Sanskrit or Snowman language?





From danb_83 at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 29 21:40:36 2009
From: danb_83 at yahoo.com (AggieDan04)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 18:40:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: What python can NOT do?
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 28, 7:05?pm, Tim Chase  wrote:
> qwe rty wrote:
> > i know that an interpreted language like python can't be used to make
> > an operating system or system drivers.
>
> As long as you are willing to write the OS hooks in C, you can
> write the userspace device drivers in Python:

Writing your OS hooks in C isn't a problem because you could write a C
compiler in Python ;-)



From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Sat Aug 29 22:25:45 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 04:25:45 +0200
Subject: copy construtor question
In-Reply-To: <613204.64791.qm@web53105.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <613204.64791.qm@web53105.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: 

28-08-2009 o 20:38:30 xiaosong xia  wrote:

> I am trying to define a class with copy constructor as following:
> ?
> class test:
> ???? def __init__(self, s=None):
> ????????? self=s
> ?
> x=[1,2]
> ?
> y=test(x)
> ?
> print y.__dict__
> ?
> it gives
> {}
> ?
> The above code doesn't work.

And cannot, as Chris has already written. But it is possible to
customize construction of objects of your class -- using __new__():
[see: http://docs.python.org/reference/datamodel.html#object.__new__ ]

     import copy
     # in Python 2.x you must explicitly inherit from 'object' type
     class Test(object):
         "Not tested"
         def __new__(cls, s, way=None):
             if s is None:
                 # a new object of 'Test' class
                 return super(currentclass, cls).__new__(cls, *args)
             else:
                 if way == 'alias':
                     return s
                 elif way == 'shallow':
                     return copy.copy(s)
                 elif way == 'deep':
                     return copy.deepcopy(s)
                 else:
                     raise ValueError("'way' must be 'alias', "
                                      "'shallow' or 'deepcopy'")

...but in such cases as copying existing objects it is usualy better
(though less romantic :-)) to use an ordinary function (e.g. simply
copy.copy() or copy.deepcopy(), as Gabriel has pointed).

Regards,
*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Aug 29 22:36:49 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 30 Aug 2009 02:36:49 GMT
Subject: (Simple?) Unicode Question
References: <332972a20908270939m57be4e51tc5785b880ec642b3@mail.gmail.com>
	
	
	<002269cb$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <0023693f$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 20:09:12 +0100, Nobody wrote:

> On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 08:26:54 +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
>> Python only needs to know when you convert the text to or from bytes. I
>> can do this:
>> 
>>>>> s = "hello"
>>>>> t = "world"
>>>>> print(' '.join([s, t]))
>> hello world
>> 
>> and not need to care anything about encodings.
>> 
>> So long as your terminal has a sensible encoding, and you have a good
>> quality font, you should be able to print any string you can create.
> 
> UTF-8 isn't a particularly sensible encoding for terminals.

Did I mention UTF-8?

Out of curiosity, why do you say that UTF-8 isn't sensible for terminals?


> And "Unicode font" is an oxymoron. You can merge a whole bunch of fonts
> together and stuff them into a TTF file; that doesn't make them "a
> font", though.

I never mentioned "Unicode font" either. In any case, there's no reason 
why a skillful designer can't make a single font which covers the entire 
Unicode range in a consistent style.


>>>> I may be wrong, but I believe that's part of the idea between
>>>> separation of string and bytes types in Python 3.x. I believe, if you
>>>> are using Python 3.x, you don't need the character encoding mumbo
>>>> jumbo at all ;-)
>>> 
>>> Nothing has changed in that regard. You still need to decode and
>>> encode text and for that you have to know the encoding.
>> 
>> You only need to worry about encoding when you convert from bytes to
>> text, and visa versa. Admittedly, the most common time you need to do
>> that is when reading input from files, but if all your text strings are
>> generated by Python, and not output anywhere, you shouldn't need to
>> care about encodings.
> 
> Why would you generate text strings and not output them anywhere?

Who knows? It doesn't matter -- the point is that you can if you want to. 
You only need to worry about encodings at input and output, therefore 
logically if you don't do I/O you can process strings all day long and 
never worry about encodings at all.


> The main advantage of using Unicode internally is that you can associate
> encodings with the specific points where data needs to be converted
> to/from bytes, rather than having to carry the encoding details around
> the program.

Surely the main advantage of Unicode is that it gives you a full and 
consistent range of characters not limited to the 128 characters provided 
by ASCII?



-- 
Steven


From nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 23:07:17 2009
From: nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 03:07:17 GMT
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
In-Reply-To: 
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>	<6Djmm.14757$ze1.10295@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	
Message-ID: 

Benjamin Peterson:

> Like Sanskrit or Snowman language?

   Sanskrit is mostly written in Devanagari these days which is also
useful for selling things to people who speak Hindi and other Indian
languages.

   Not sure if you are referring to the ? snowman character or Arctic
region languages like Canadian Aboriginal syllabic writing like ?????
which were added to Unicode 8 years after the initial version. I'd guess
that was added from political rather than marketing motives. ? was
required since it was present in Japanese character sets.

   Neil


From cs at zip.com.au  Sat Aug 29 23:24:22 2009
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 13:24:22 +1000
Subject: Sqlite format string
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <20090830032422.GA23090@cskk.homeip.net>

On 29Aug2009 17:27, Sergio Charpinel Jr.  wrote:
| Hi,
| I have this statement cursor.execute("SELECT * from session_attribute WHERE
| sid=%s", ( user ))
| and I'm receiving this error :
| 
| TypeError: not all arguments converted during string formatting
| 
| What is wrong ?

This:

  ( user )

is not a tuple containing the element user. It's just user.

This:

  ( user, )

is what you want.
-- 
Cameron Simpson  DoD#743
http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/

[Alain] had been looking at his dashboard, and had not seen me, so I
ran into him. - Jean Alesi on his qualifying prang at Imola '93


From half.italian at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 23:51:16 2009
From: half.italian at gmail.com (Sean DiZazzo)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 20:51:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Permanently adding to the Python path in Ubuntu
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 29, 5:39?pm, Chris Colbert  wrote:
> I'm having an issue with sys.path on Ubuntu. I want some of my home
> built packages to overshadow the system packages. Namely, I have built
> numpy 1.3.0 from source with atlas support, and I need it to
> overshadow the system numpy 1.2.1 which I had to drag along as a
> dependency for other stuff. I have numpy 1.3.0 installed into
> /usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/. The issue is that this
> directory is added to the path after the
> /usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/ is added, so python doesnt see my
> version of numpy.
>
> I have been combating this with a line in my .bashrc file:
>
> export PYTHONPATH=/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages
>
> So when I start python from the shell, everything works fine.
>
> Problems show up when python is not executed from the shell, and thus
> the path variable is never exported. This can occur when I have
> launcher in the gnome panel or i'm executing from within wing-ide.
>
> Is there a way to fix this so that the local dist-packages is added to
> sys.path before the system directory ALWAYS? I can do this by editing
> site.py but I think it's kind of bad form to do it this way. I feel
> there has to be a way to do this without root privileges.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Chris

I think you can modify sys.path inside your application.

Maybe this will work (at the top of your script):


import sys
sys.path[0] = "/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages"

import numpy


PS.  Say hi to Steven for me!

~Sean


From b1540457 at tyldd.com  Sun Aug 30 00:05:24 2009
From: b1540457 at tyldd.com (Anny Mous)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 14:05:24 +1000
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

r wrote:

> Of the many
> things that divide us such as race, color, religion, geography, blah,
> the most perplexing and devastating seems to be why have we not
> accepted a single global language for all to speak.

I agree 1000% and obviously we should make Klingon that global language. Or
possibly the Black Tongue of the Mordor Orcs, which is much better for
cursing. I haven't decided yet.


> Take for instance the Chinese language with it's thousands of
> characters and BS, it's more of an art than a language.  Why do we
> need such complicated languages in this day and time. Many languages
> have been perfected, (although not perfect) far beyond that of Chinese
> language. The A-Z char set is flawless!

How do we distinguish resume from r?sum? without accents?

Even when we succeed in banning all languages that can't be written using
A-Z, what do we do about the vast number of legacy documents? How do we
write about obsolete English letters like ? and ? without Unicode?

How do we write mathematical and scientific documents without characters
like ? ? ? ? and ? ?

What do we use to replace typographic symbols and dingbats like ? without
Unicode?


> Some may say well how can we possibly force countries/people to speak/
> code in a uniform manner? Well that's simple, you just stop supporting
> their cryptic languages by dumping Unicode and returning to the
> beautiful ASCII and adopting English as the universal world language.
> Why English? Well because it is so widely spoken.

World population: 6.7 billion

Number of native Mandarin speakers: 873 million
Number of native Hindi speakers: 370 million
Number of native Spanish speakers: 350 million
Number of native English speakers: 340 million

Total number of Mandarin speakers: 1051 million
Total number of English speakers: 510 million

http://www.vistawide.com/languages/top_30_languages.htm

Whichever way you look at it, we should all convert to Mandarin, not
English. Looks like we still need Unicode.

Besides, given that the US would be bankrupt if not for Chinese loans, do
you really want to upset them by suggesting their language sucks?


> But whatever we 
> choose just choose one language and stick with it, perfect it, and
> maintain it.

Just ask the Academie Francaise how well that works!

Why stop with A-Z? We can improve on 26 letters. In the first year we should
replace the soft 'c' with 's'. Any sivilized language will sertainly be
better off with this change. The hard 'c' will be dropped in favour of 'k',
which will klear up much konfusion and allow one key less on keyboards.

In the sekond year I expect publik enthusiasm to grow, allowing us to
replace the troublesome 'ph' with 'f', which will make words
like 'fotograf' twenty persent shorter.

In the third year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to
permit more komplikated changes. We will enkourage the removal of double
leters which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling. Also, al wil
agre that the horible mes of the silent 'e' is disgrasful.

By the fourth yer, peopl wil be reseptiv to replasing 'th' with 'z' and 'w'
with 'v'. Zis vil be a grat improvment.

During ze fifz yer, ze unesesary 'o' kan be dropd from vords kontaining 'ou'
and similar changes vud of kors be aplid to ozer kombinations of leters.
After zis fifz yer, ve vil hav a reli sensibl riten styl. Zer vil be no mor
trubls or difikultis and everivun vil find it ezi to understand ech ozer.
ZE DREM VIL FINALI COM TRU!


> IMO Multiple languages are barriers to communication, collaboration,
> and the continuation of our future evolution as intelligent Human
> beings and this language multiplicity will comprise our future until
> it is reigned in and utterly destroyed. 

Yes, because language differences have utterly destroyed us so many times in
the past!

Have you thought about the difference between China, with one culture and
one spoken language for thousands of years, and Europe, with dozens of
competing cultures, competing governments, and alternate languages for just
as long? If multiple languages are so harmful, why was it the British,
French, Japanese, Russians, Germans, Italians, Austrians, Hungarians and
Americans who were occupying China during the Opium Wars and the Boxer
Rebellion, instead of the other way around?

Strength comes from diversity, not monoculture.





From kennyken747 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 00:14:59 2009
From: kennyken747 at gmail.com (kennyken747)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 21:14:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: why python got less developers ?
References: 
	
Message-ID: <604b21ef-a3ad-4da8-92f5-c1d22345b4d7@p15g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 29, 6:16?am, paul  wrote:
> Deep_Feelings schrieb:> python got relatively fewer numbers of developers than other high
> > level languages like .NET , java .. etc ?why ?
>
> Besides the marketing argument, python never had a "hype".
>
> Both PHP and ruby(Rails to be precise) got widespread because they could
> ? at one point do "one" thing better than the competition. From there
> on, they had more ressources (developer time) and grew fast and beyond
> the original problem domain. Now you can write GUI apps in PHP, great!
>
> cheers
> ? Paul

You guys can say anything you'd like it to be in this thread, but the
actual reason comes down to
1. No marketing. Seriously, if Microsoft was pushing Python it would
obviously be a lot bigger in terms of developers.
2. No certification. Millions go to college to get degrees in computer
related study. Do the math.

Also, really guys? This crap about speed? People have been saying this
for years, and yet they still don't realize that there are plenty
solutions to take care of that one problem.

Just be happy that you've stumbled upon Python, just because it's not
the most widespread language in the world certainly doesn't mean it's
not a worthy language. Quite the opposite.


From cjns1989 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 00:22:00 2009
From: cjns1989 at gmail.com (Chris Jones)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 00:22:00 -0400
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
In-Reply-To: 
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	<6Djmm.14757$ze1.10295@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	
	
Message-ID: <20090830042200.GC30241@turki.gavron.org>

On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 11:07:17PM EDT, Neil Hodgson wrote:
> Benjamin Peterson:

> > Like Sanskrit or Snowman language?

> Sanskrit is mostly written in Devanagari these days which is also
> useful for selling things to people who speak Hindi and other Indian
> languages.

Is the implication that the principal usefulness of such languages as
Hindi and "other Indian languages" is us selling "things" to them..? I
am not from these climes but all the same, I do find you tone of voice
rather offensive, considering that you are referring to a culture that's
about 3000 years older and 3000 richer than ours and certainly deserves
our respect.

Maybe you didn't notice, but our plants shut down many years ago.. They
are selling _us_ their wares.

> Not sure if you are referring to the snowman character or Arctic
> region languages like Canadian Aboriginal syllabic writing like ?????
> which were added to Unicode 8 years after the initial version. I'd
> guess that was added from political rather than marketing motives. ?
> was required since it was present in Japanese character sets.

Oh.. so.. now Unicode is not only about marketing.. there is also a
political "aspect"..  polytonic Greek, Runic, Shavian, Glagolitic,
Carian, Phoenician, Lydian, Cuneiform, not to mention Mathematical
symbols, Braille, Domino Tiles, the IPA..?  What was I thinking..?

Nothing personal, I assure you.. maybe I misunderstood what you were
saying.

In any event, you shouldn't feed the troll, even if he's teething.

CJ


From cmpython at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 00:45:19 2009
From: cmpython at gmail.com (Che M)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 21:45:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: IDE for python similar to visual basic
References: <2a17396c-4d6d-4cb0-a314-208054a2f774@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3d91c968-bd36-45b9-8ae0-3af8e855605e@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 28, 6:19?pm, qwe rty  wrote:
> i have been searching for am IDE for python that is similar to Visual
> Basic but had no luck.shall you help me please?

Boa Constructor.  IDE/visual GUI-builder/sizer support, lots of
other goodies.  Not actively maintained, though, and some issues
on Linux, in my experience.  But I like it a lot.


From cmpython at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 00:47:10 2009
From: cmpython at gmail.com (Che M)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 21:47:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: What python can NOT do?
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <62177729-0079-4cfc-bdf6-e31ebd3e883b@z28g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 28, 6:37?pm, qwe rty  wrote:
> i know that an interpreted language like python can't be used to make
> an operating system or system drivers.
>
> what else can NOT be done in python? what are the limitations of the
> language?

Now that you have some good answers, may I ask what what your reason
was for posting this question?



From cmpython at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 00:51:13 2009
From: cmpython at gmail.com (Che M)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 21:51:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python Noob - gui module, book, annoying questions
References: <92cc4ca1-0e0d-4355-8d9a-b4928390e619@q35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 29, 3:20?am, Pherdnut  wrote:
> I want to write cross-platform stuff. Any opinions on the best GUI
> module for that?
>
> I like a good juicy, but concise book for reading on my commute
> downtown. I was thinking of checking Python in a Nutshell. Good? Bad?
> Better?
>
> Is 3.0+ more object based? I'm actually an FED and one of the things I
> love about JS is the consistency of the language. I love Python 2.6 so
> far so I'm not knocking it. But I'm not really taking advantage of the
> non-core libraries as much right now anyway since I'm learning it.
>
> What do you guys like in Reg Ex books/sites? I'd like to become more
> fluent in some of the less commonly used stuff.

Also wxPython.  It's cross platform, but it does require occasional
platform-dependent tweaks, since it mostly uses native controls and
sometimes the native controls' requirements are different.

You might want to consider that it's going to be some time before the
3rd party libraries catch up to Python 3.  I'd recommend 2.5 or 2.6
for learning now if you plan on using them.


From torriem at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 00:52:54 2009
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 22:52:54 -0600
Subject: What python can NOT do?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	<4A9870D4.8070800@tim.thechases.com>	
	
	
	
Message-ID: <4A9A05A6.4080803@gmail.com>

qwe rty wrote:
> On Aug 29, 5:11 am, Nobody  wrote:
>> On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:26:06 -0700, qwe rty wrote:
>>> if you don't know the answer please don't reply
>> If you don't understand the question, don't post it in the first place.
> 
> don't be so angry ,not good for your health

You forgot your smiley emoticon!  Since everyone else is posting in a
light-hearted manner (not "angry" as you say), I choose to read your
post in this light as well.

What Nobody was really trying to say, is ask your question in a better
way and you'll get a better answer.



From dieter at handshake.de  Sun Aug 30 00:54:21 2009
From: dieter at handshake.de (Dieter Maurer)
Date: 30 Aug 2009 06:54:21 +0200
Subject: break unichr instead of fix ord?
In-Reply-To: <4a979172$0$11759$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
References: <2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4A95A4D1.9060008@v.loewis.de>
	
	<4A961EE1.9010103@v.loewis.de>
	<65e6c430-9dc4-4a90-8448-f8f587d19750@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4a979172$0$11759$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: 

"Martin v. L?wis"  writes on Fri, 28 Aug 2009 10:12:34 +0200:
> > The PEP says:
> >      * unichr(i) for 0 <= i < 2**16 (0x10000) always returns a
> >        length-one string.
> > 
> >      * unichr(i) for 2**16 <= i <= TOPCHAR will return a
> >        length-one string on wide Python builds. On narrow
> >        builds it will raise ValueError.
> > and
> >      * ord() is always the inverse of unichr()
> > 
> > which of course we know; that is the current behavior.  But
> > there is no reason given for that behavior.
> 
> Sure there is, right above the list:
> 
> "Most things will behave identically in the wide and narrow worlds."
> 
> That's the reason: scripts should work the same as much as possible
> in wide and narrow builds.
> 
> What you propose would break the property "unichr(i) always returns
> a string of length one, if it returns anything at all".

But getting a "ValueError" in some builds (and not in others)
is rather worse than getting unicode strings of different length....

> >    1) Should surrogate pairs be disallowed on narrow builds?
> > That appears to have been answered in the negative and is
> > not relevant to my question.
> 
> It is, as it does lead to inconsistencies between wide and narrow
> builds. OTOH, it also allows the same source code to work on both
> versions, so it also preserves the uniformity in a different way.

Do you not have the inconsistencies in any case?
... "ValueError" in some builds and not in others ...



From bcb at undisclosedlocation.net  Sun Aug 30 01:00:54 2009
From: bcb at undisclosedlocation.net (Bruce C. Baker)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 00:00:54 -0500
Subject: Why does this group have so much spam?
References: <7294bf8b-9819-4b6d-92b2-afc1c8042a06@x6g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7Hnmm.176524$zq1.39243@newsfe22.iad>


"casebash"  wrote in message 
news:7294bf8b-9819-4b6d-92b2-afc1c8042a06 at x6g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
> So much of it could be removed even by simple keyword filtering.

Assuming this is a serious question:

1. comp.lang.python has relatively little spam, compared to others.

2. The spam posters aren't looking for responses within the individual NGs, 
they're just hoping you'll click through to the link within the post. It's a 
version of "fire and forget"

3. Simple keyword filtering /by whom/? There is no central NG governing 
authority.

The best response is to ignore[1] the spam posts; they'll eventually expire 
and disappear from your newsreader.

[1] Although if they're egregiously stupid, you may find yourself mocking 
the OP. Realize that as witty and urbane as your response may be, the OP 
ain't listening. :-) 




From nagle at animats.com  Sun Aug 30 01:14:55 2009
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 22:14:55 -0700
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
In-Reply-To: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a9a0988$0$1669$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

r wrote:
> I was reading the thread here...
> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/db90a9629b92aab0/b0385050b4c6c84e?hl=en&lnk=raot#b0385050b4c6c84e
> 
> and it raised some fundamental philophosical questions 

    Rant ignored.

    Actually, Python 3.x seems finally to have character sets right.
There's "bytes", for uninterpreted binary data, Unicode, and
proper ASCII, 0..127.  Within Python, we finally got rid of
"upper code pages".

    (I wish the HTML standards people would do the same.  HTML 5
should have been ASCII only (with the "&" escapes if desired)
or Unicode.  No "Latin-1", no upper code pages, no JIS, etc.)

> 
> [nested thoughts]
> A few months ago i was watching some tear-jerking documentary called
> something like "Save the Languages" or "The dying languages" blah! 

    It may be a bit much that Unicode supports Cretan Linear B.

					John Nagle


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Aug 30 01:26:55 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 01:26:55 -0400
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
In-Reply-To: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

r wrote:

> natural languages and Unicode. Which IMO * Unicode* is simply a monkey
> patch for this soup of multiple languages we have to deal with in
> programming and communication.

A somewhat fair charactierization.

[snip]

> everyone happy? A sort of Utopian free-language-love-fest-kinda-
> thing?

Not utopian, but pragmatically political. Before unicode, and still 
today, we had and have multiple codes. Multiple ascii extenstions for 
European languages and even multiple codes just for Japanese. To get 
people in the major computing countries, including Japan, to agree to 
eventually replace their national codes with one worldwide code, some 
kludgy compromises were made.

> language. The A-Z char set is flawless!

Hardly. There are too few characters. A basic set should have at least 
50. The international phonetic alphabet (IPA) has about 150. Here is a 
true Utopian proposal for you (from a non-CS major ;-): develop an 
extended IPA 256-character set with just a few control chars (rather 
than 32) and punctuation and other markers. Then develop dictionaries to 
translate texts in every languange and char set into and back out of 
this universal character set.

Fat chance of approval, even if techical issues were resolved.

> Some may say well how can we possibly force countries/people to speak/
> code in a uniform manner? Well that's simple, you just stop supporting
> their cryptic languages by dumping Unicode and returning to the
> beautiful ASCII

But most everyone outside the US was not using ascii precisely because 
it did not support their language.

Get over the imperfections of unicode. It improves on the prior status quo.

Terry Jan Reedy



From steve at lonetwin.net  Sun Aug 30 01:28:50 2009
From: steve at lonetwin.net (steve)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 10:58:50 +0530
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
In-Reply-To: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A9A0E12.9040308@lonetwin.net>

On 08/30/2009 04:16 AM, r wrote:
> I was reading the thread here...
> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/db90a9629b92aab0/b0385050b4c6c84e?hl=en&lnk=raot#b0385050b4c6c84e
> ...
> ...
> It's called evolution people! Ever heard of science? So ditch the
> useless Unicode and save us all a few keystrokes and bottles of
> aspirin for the persistent headaches! Simplicity is beautiful!!

You are right ! In the same vein, we should all also standardize on using the 
Java language for programming, after all /everybody/ writes code in Java.

cheers,
- steve

-- 
random non tech spiel: http://lonetwin.blogspot.com/
tech randomness: http://lonehacks.blogspot.com/
what i'm stumbling into: http://lonetwin.stumbleupon.com/


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Aug 30 01:37:37 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 01:37:37 -0400
Subject: What python can NOT do?
In-Reply-To: <20090829230717.14429.2004501285.divmod.xquotient.10@localhost.localdomain>
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	<4a998465$0$1637$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>	
	<20090829230717.14429.2004501285.divmod.xquotient.10@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: 

exarkun at twistedmatrix.com wrote:

> For my part, I will agree with John.  I feel like Python's big 
> shortcomings stem from the areas he mentioned.  They're related to each 
> other as well - the lack of a standard hampers the development of a less 
> naive interpreter (either one based on CPython or another one).

The reference manual is *intended* to define the 'standard' Python 
language.

 > It
> doesn't completely prevent such development (obviously, as CPython 
> continues to undergo development, and there are a number of alternate 
> runtimes for Python-like languages), but there's clearly a cost 
> associated with the fact that in order to do this development, a lot of 
> time has to be spent figuring out what Python *is*.  This is the kind of 
> thing that a standard would help with.

Such developers occasionally raise questions about ambiguities in the 
ref manual on the pydev list. This is part of the editing process.

There is an effort underway to separate the CPython test suite into two 
parts: test of standard Python behavior, which all implementations 
should pass, and tests of the CPython implementation, which other 
implementations need not pass.  It will move as fast as volunteer effort 
moves it.

tjr



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Aug 30 01:46:12 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 30 Aug 2009 05:46:12 GMT
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	<6Djmm.14757$ze1.10295@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	
	
Message-ID: <002395a3$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 03:07:17 +0000, Neil Hodgson wrote:

>    Not sure if you are referring to the ? snowman character or Arctic
> region languages like Canadian Aboriginal syllabic writing like ?????
> which were added to Unicode 8 years after the initial version. I'd guess
> that was added from political rather than marketing motives. ? was
> required since it was present in Japanese character sets.


If I recall correctly, the snowman was specifically added at the request 
of Japanese television producers, because it is a standard glyph used for 
representing snow when showing the weather on TV.

Unicode's stated aim is to have a single universal standard for all 
characters needed for communication. From the Unicode Consortium:

[quote]
What is Unicode?
Unicode provides a unique number for every character, no matter what the 
platform, no matter what the program, no matter what the language.

...
Even for a single language like English no single encoding was adequate 
for all the letters, punctuation, and technical symbols in common use.

These encoding systems also conflict with one another. That is, two 
encodings can use the same number for two different characters, or use 
different numbers for the same character. Any given computer (especially 
servers) needs to support many different encodings; yet whenever data is 
passed between different encodings or platforms, that data always runs 
the risk of corruption.

Unicode is changing all that!

Unicode provides a unique number for every character, no matter what the 
platform, no matter what the program, no matter what the language.
[end quote]

And from the FAQs:

[quote]
Unicode covers all the characters for all the writing systems of the 
world, modern and ancient. It also includes technical symbols, 
punctuations, and many other characters used in writing text.
[end quote]


It's not just about supporting languages used by foreigners too stupid to 
speak English (sarcasm!). It's about supporting business users who want a 
standard way of referring to dingbats and pictographs, historians who 
need to deal with ancient writings and obsolete characters, scientists 
and mathematicians who want to use mathematical symbols, editors and book 
publishers who want to use their own typographic symbols, including 
Braille, musical symbols, and even TV producers who want to include 
snowmen on their weather charts.

The Unicode system replaces dozens of incompatible, clashing systems with 
a single universal, extensible system. Why would anyone want to go back 
to the Bad Old Days where you couldn't transfer data from one OS to 
another, or even from one application to another, without quote marks 
turning into mathematical symbols or boxes?



-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Aug 30 01:52:48 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 30 Aug 2009 05:52:48 GMT
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	<4a9a0988$0$1669$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <0023972f$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 22:14:55 -0700, John Nagle wrote:

> It may be a bit much that Unicode supports Cretan Linear B.

Thousands of historians who need to discuss Linear B would disagree.

Well, hundreds.


There are tens of thousands of characters available. If there's room for 
chess pieces, dingbats with drop shadows and numbers inside circles, 
there's room for actual characters from real (if extinct) languages.


-- 
Steven


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Aug 30 01:58:39 2009
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 07:58:39 +0200
Subject: break unichr instead of fix ord?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4A95A4D1.9060008@v.loewis.de>
	
	<4A961EE1.9010103@v.loewis.de>
	<65e6c430-9dc4-4a90-8448-f8f587d19750@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4a979172$0$11759$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	
Message-ID: <4A9A150F.6010503@v.loewis.de>

> To reiterate, I am not advocating for any change.  I
> simply want to understand if there is a good reason
> for limiting the use of unchr/ord on narrow builds to
> a subset of the unicode characters that Python otherwise
> supports.  So far, it seems not and that unichr/ord
> is a poster child for "purity beats practicality".

I think that's actually the case. I went back to the discussions,
and found that early 2.2 alpha releases did return two-byte
strings from unichr, and that this was changed because Marc-Andre
Lemburg insisted. Here are a few relevant messages from the
archives (search for unichr)

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2001-June/015649.html
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2001-July/015662.html
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2001-July/016110.html
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2001-July/016153.html
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2001-July/016155.html
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2001-July/016186.html

Eventually, in r28142, MAL changed it to give it its current
state.

Regards,
Martin


From nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 02:17:14 2009
From: nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 06:17:14 GMT
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
In-Reply-To: 
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>	<6Djmm.14757$ze1.10295@news-server.bigpond.net.au>		
	
Message-ID: 

Chris Jones:

> Is the implication that the principal usefulness of such languages as
> Hindi and "other Indian languages" is us selling "things" to them..? 

   Unicode was developed by a group of US corporations: Xerox, Apple,
Sun, Microsoft, ... The main motivation was to avoid dealing with
multiple character set encodings since this was difficult, time
consuming and expensive.

> I
> am not from these climes but all the same, I do find you tone of voice
> rather offensive, considering that you are referring to a culture that's
> about 3000 years older and 3000 richer than ours and certainly deserves
> our respect.

   Eh? Was Unicode developed in India? China? What precisely is
direspectful here? Is there a significant population that regards
Unicode as their 'holy patrimony' that will suffer distress due to my
post?

> Maybe you didn't notice, but our plants shut down many years ago.. They
> are selling _us_ their wares.

   Maybe your plants shut down but some of the plants I have worked at
(such as the steelworks at Port Kembla) are still successfully exporting
to Asia.

   Neil


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Aug 30 02:27:32 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 30 Aug 2009 06:27:32 GMT
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	<6Djmm.14757$ze1.10295@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	
	
	
Message-ID: <00239f52$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 00:22:00 -0400, Chris Jones wrote:

> On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 11:07:17PM EDT, Neil Hodgson wrote:
>> Benjamin Peterson:
> 
>> > Like Sanskrit or Snowman language?
> 
>> Sanskrit is mostly written in Devanagari these days which is also
>> useful for selling things to people who speak Hindi and other Indian
>> languages.
> 
> Is the implication that the principal usefulness of such languages as
> Hindi and "other Indian languages" is us selling "things" to them..? I
> am not from these climes but all the same, I do find you tone of voice
> rather offensive, 

I think Neil's point is that Unicode has succeeded in the wider world, 
outside of academic circles, because of the commercial need to 
communicate between cultures using different character sets. I suppose he 
could have worded it better, but fundamentally he's right: without the 
commercial need to trade across the world (information as well as 
physical goods) I doubt Unicode would be anything more than an 
interesting curiosity of use only to a few academics and linguists.


> considering that you are referring to a culture that's
> about 3000 years older and 3000 richer than ours and certainly deserves
> our respect.

Older, certainly, but richer? There's a reason that Indians come to the 
West rather than Westerners going to India. As Terry Pratchet has 
written, age is not linked to wisdom -- just because somebody is old, 
doesn't mean they're wise, perhaps they've just been stupid for a very 
long time. The same goes for cultures: old doesn't mean better.

Indian culture has been responsible for many wonderful things over the 
millennia, but the cast system is not one of them, and any culture which 
glorified sati (suttee) as an act of piety is not one we should look up 
to. Sati was probably rare even at the height of it's popularity, and 
vanishingly rare now, and arguably could even be defended as the right of 
an adult to end their own life when they see fit, but dowry-burning is 
outright murder and is sadly very common across the Indian sub-continent: 
some estimates suggest that in the mid-1990s there were nearly 6000 such 
murders a year in India.

If we are to be truly non-racist, we must recognise that the West does 
not have a monopoly on wickedness, ignorance, spite and sheer awfulness.  

In any case, I'm not sure we should be talking about Indian culture in 
the singular -- India is about as large as Western Europe, significantly 
more varied, and the culture has changed over time. The India which 
treated the Karma Sutra as a holy book is hardly the same India where 
people literally rioted in the street because Richard Gere gave the 
actress Shilpa Shetty a couple of rather theatrical and silly kisses on 
the cheek.



-- 
Steven


From szport at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 03:15:41 2009
From: szport at gmail.com (zaur)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 00:15:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Object's nesting scope
References: 
	<7fkqodF2llnghU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<1ea2a98f-4035-4ec6-b5a9-06b21dd6f584@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4a97c851$0$307$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<440b8caf-27f9-49d4-8d1b-94f93c75eb23@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	
	<9205fd44-90ec-4ce6-be2a-2f82dd99e13e@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <109d0956-0675-4c12-94c4-1cd54d6016b3@33g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>

On 30 ???, 03:22, "Gabriel Genellina"  wrote:
> En Sat, 29 Aug 2009 04:34:48 -0300, zaur  escribi?:
>
>
>
> > On 29 ???, 08:37, "Gabriel Genellina"  wrote:
> >> En Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:25:55 -0300, zaur  escribi?:
> >> > On 28 ???, 16:07, Bruno Desthuilliers  >> > 42.desthuilli... at websiteburo.invalid> wrote:
> >> >> zaur a ?crit :
>
> >> >> > Ok. Here is a use case: object initialization.
>
> >> >> Err... Looks like you really should read the FineManual(tm) -
> >> >> specifically, the parts on the __init__ method.
>
> >> > What are you doing if 1) classes Person and Address imported from
> >> > foreign module 2) __init__ method is not defined as you want?
>
> >> Welcome to dynamic languages! It doesn't matter *where* the class was ?
> >> defined. You may add new attributes to the instance (even methods to ?
> >> the class) at any time. [...4 examples...]
>
> > I know about these ways of object initializing. What I said is about
> > using object's dictionary as nested scope in code block. Object
> > initialization is just one use case.
> > So we say about different things.
>
> Well, you asked how to proceed in certain cases and I showed several ways ?
> it can be done right now, without requiring a new scope. You'll have to ?
> think of another use case.
>
> Attribute lookup is explicit in Python, and that's a very good thing. If ?
> you follow the python-ideas thread posted earlier, you'll see the kind of ?
> problems an implicit attribute lookup would cause. The "with" statement is ?
> necesary (and a good thing) in Pascal, but not in Python.
>
> Zope2 departs from this explicitness: it has a  construct ?
> (similar to what you propose), and I hate it profoundly every time I have ?
> to edit a DTML file - I can never tell *where* an attribute comes from. ?
> Another related "feature" is acquisition, a stack of namespaces where ?
> objects "inherit" attributes from their containers. Same thing, a complete ?
> waste of time every time I have to track a bug.
>
> Unless you can find a very compeling use case, I don't think this feature ?
> will become part of the language anytime soon...
>
> --
> Gabriel Genellina


The same can be said about multiple inheritance.
However, multiple inheritance is a powerful tool in the hands of
someone who can properly and effectively use it.


From code at pizzashack.org  Sun Aug 30 03:33:05 2009
From: code at pizzashack.org (Derek Martin)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 02:33:05 -0500
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
In-Reply-To: <0022fef9$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 
	
	
	
	<0022fef9$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <20090830073305.GN20434@dragontoe.org>

On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 07:03:23PM +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 11:11:43 -0700, zaur wrote:
> 
> > I thought that int as object will stay the same object after += but with
> > another integer value. My intuition said me that int object which
> > represent integer value should behave this way.
> 
> If it did, then you would have this behaviour:

No, you wouldn't; the behavior you described is completely different
from, and incompatible with, what zaur wrote.  

He's saying that instead of thinking the integer value of 3 itself
being the object, he expected Python's object model would behave as
though the entity m is the object, and that object exists to contain
an integer value.  In that case, m is always m, but it has whatever
integer value it is told to hold at any point in time.  The
self-referential addition would access the value of m, add the
operand, and store the result back in the same object as the object's
value.  This is not the way Python works, but he's saying this is the
intuitive behavior.  I happen to agree, and argued at length with you
and others about that very thing months ago, when some other third
party posted with that exact same confusion.  

By contrast, your description maintains the concept of numerical value
as object that Python uses, and completely misses the point.  I did
find the description you gave to be highly enlightening though...  It
highlighted perfectly, I think, exactly why it is that Python's behavior
regarding numerical values as objects is *not* intuitive.  Of course,
intuition is highly subjective.

I believe it boils down to this:  People expect that objects they
create are mutable.  At least, unless they specify otherwise.  It is
so in some other programming languages which people may be likely to
be familiar with (if they are not taking their first forray into the
world of computing by learning Python), and even "real world" objects
are essentially always mutable.  If you have a 2002 Buick LeSabre, it
has a number of attributes, including its length, which might be 8.5
feet, for instance.  However, this is not fixed: by adding modified
body parts, or as an extreme example by sawing off the trunk of the
car, the length and indeed the object itself has been changed.
However, despite having been modified, it is at least in some sense
still the same object: it is still a 2002 Buick LeSabre, and it still
has the same *identity* (the same VIN number).  It's the same object,
but its value(s) changed.  [Not that it matters, but I do not own such
a car. :)]

Numbers are fundamentally different from objects.  The number 3 is a
symbol of the idea of the existence of three countable objects.  It
can not be changed (though it can be renamed, if you so choose -- just
don't expect most people to know what you're talking about).  It is
unintuitive that 3 is an object; it is rather what we use to describe
objects -- the value of the object.  It is an abstract concept, and
as such it is not an object at all.  You cannot hear 3, taste
3, nor smell 3.  You can neither see nor touch 3, though you can
certainly see 3 *objects* if they are present, and you can certainly
see the symbol '3' that we use to represent that idea... but you can
not see three itself, because there is no such object.  The only way
to see three is to envision 3 of some object.  The number 3 does not
have a value; it IS a value (it is the symbolic representation of the
value of three).  To say that 3 is an object that has a value is a bit
like saying the length of a car is an object that itself has a length.
It just doesn't compute.

THAT is why Python's behavior with regard to numerical objects is
not intuitive, and frankly bizzare to me, and I dare say to others who
find it so.

Yes, that's right.  BIZZARE.

Of course, none of this is real.  In the end, it's all just a bunch of
wires that either have current or don't.  It's only how *WE* organize
and think about that current that gives it any meaning.  So you're
free to think about it any way you like.

-- 
Derek D. Martin
http://www.pizzashack.org/
GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D

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From milesck at umich.edu  Sun Aug 30 03:38:20 2009
From: milesck at umich.edu (Miles Kaufmann)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 00:38:20 -0700
Subject: Why does this group have so much spam?
In-Reply-To: <7Hnmm.176524$zq1.39243@newsfe22.iad>
References: <7294bf8b-9819-4b6d-92b2-afc1c8042a06@x6g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<7Hnmm.176524$zq1.39243@newsfe22.iad>
Message-ID: <5C6A9174-FE24-433F-8508-03FE8A4DE9D9@umich.edu>

> "casebash"  wrote in message
> news:7294bf8b-9819-4b6d-92b2- 
> afc1c8042a06 at x6g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
>> So much of it could be removed even by simple keyword filtering.

Funny, I was just thinking recently about how *little* spam this list  
gets--on the other hand, I'm following it via the python-list@ mailing  
list.  The list owners do a great job of keeping the level of spam at  
a minimum, though there are occasional false positives (like your  
post, apparently, since I'm only seeing the replies).

-Miles



From detlev at die-offenbachs.de  Sun Aug 30 03:53:03 2009
From: detlev at die-offenbachs.de (Detlev Offenbach)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 09:53:03 +0200
Subject: IDE for python similar to visual basic
References: <2a17396c-4d6d-4cb0-a314-208054a2f774@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

qwe rty wrote:

> i have been searching for am IDE for python that is similar to Visual
> Basic but had no luck.shall you help me please?

eric4 should be a good candidate.

http://eric-ide.python-projects.org

Detlev
-- 
Detlev Offenbach
detlev at die-offenbachs.de


From ubershmekel at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 03:56:31 2009
From: ubershmekel at gmail.com (RunThePun)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 00:56:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Overriding iadd for dictionary like objects
References: 
	
	 
	
	<21e57363-4e92-41cb-9907-5aef96ad0a6e@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	 
	
	<58e91734-d03f-417c-89b1-f2717c3a9181@l5g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>
	<87ws4n5gfi.fsf@slice.rozzin.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 29, 1:58?pm, Carl Banks  wrote:
> On Aug 28, 10:37?pm, Joshua Judson Rosen  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Carl Banks  writes:
>
> > > On Aug 28, 2:42?pm, Terry Reedy  wrote:
>
> > > > Carl Banks wrote:
> > > > > I don't think it needs a syntax for that, but I'm not so sure a method
> > > > > to modify a value in place with a single key lookup wouldn't
> > > > > occasioanally be useful.
>
> > > > Augmented assignment does that.
>
> > > Internally uses two lookups, one for getting, and one for setting.
>
> > > I think this is an unavoidable given Python's semantics. ?Look at
> > > the traceback:
>
> > > >>> def x():
> > > ... ? ? d['a'] += 1
> > > ...
> > > >>> dis.dis(x)
> > > ? 2 ? ? ? ? ? 0 LOAD_GLOBAL ? ? ? ? ? ? ?0 (d)
> > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 3 LOAD_CONST ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 1 ('a')
> > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 6 DUP_TOPX ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 2
> > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 9 BINARY_SUBSCR
>
> > OK, there's one lookup, but...
>
> > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?10 LOAD_CONST ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 2 (1)
> > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?13 INPLACE_ADD
> > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?14 ROT_THREE
> > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?15 STORE_SUBSCR
> > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?16 LOAD_CONST ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 0 (None)
> > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?19 RETURN_VALUE
>
> > ... I don't see anything in there that retrieves the value a second time....
>
> STORE_SUBSCR has to look up the position in the hash table to store
> the value, hence the second lookup.
>
> > > > > As a workaround, if lookups are expensive,
>
> > > > But they are not. Because (C)Python is heavily based on dict name lookup
> > > > for builtins and global names and attributes, as well as overt dict
> > > > lookup, must effort has gone into optimizing dict lookup.
>
> > > The actual lookup algorithm Python dicts use is well-optimized, yes,
> > > but the dict could contain keys that have expensive comparison and
> > > hash-code calculation, in which case lookup is going to be slow.
>
> > I'll like the originator correct me if I've made a mistake, but I read
> > "lookup" as actually meaning "lookup", not "value-comparison".
>
> This has nothing to do with value comparison. ?I was talking about key
> comparison, which happens when looking up a position in a hash table.
> I was the first person to use the word "lookup" in this thread and I
> specifically meant hash-table position lookup.
>
> > At least in part because the question, as it was posed, specifically
> > related to a wrapper-class (providing a mapping ("dict like") interface)
> > around a database of some sort other than Python's dict class per se.
>
> > How do the details of Python's native dict-type's internal (hashtable)
> > algorithm matter when they're explicitly /not/ being used?
>
> Well it doesn't apply specifically to the OP's problem. ?I changed the
> topic a bit by making it specific to dicts. ?Is that ok with you? ?Was
> that not allowed?
>
> The OP can add a method like apply_to_value to his own class, but one
> can't do that for dicts. ?Ergo why something like apply_to_value()
> would be useful enough in rare circumstances where lookup is very slow
> to merit a moments consideration before being rejected.
>
> (If dict did have a method like that, the OP would at least know which
> method to override.)
>
> Carl Banks

First of all I'd like to say thanks for this discussion, you guys are
awesome.

I probably should have explained my problem better to begin with and I
apologize for that. So now I'll start from the top:

I made a DictMixin where the keys are filenames and the values are the
file contents. It was very simple and easy to do thanks to DictMixin.

For example this code writes "abc" in a file named "temp.txt" and
prints the contents of the file named "swallow", these files are
looked up/created/deleted in the directory "spam":
>>> d = FilesDict('spam')
>>> d['temp.txt'] = 'abc'
>>> print(d['swallow'])

This was very convenient for me because I wanted to use a simple DB
which could be read and edited by shell scripts and non-pythonistas,
without the heavy ORM. Also, if in the future an online full featured
DB would be needed, I could easily convert the DictMixin methods.  So
up to here I had a good solution.

My problem arose when I wanted to append a string to a file which
using open(..., 'ab') would have been miles more efficient because I
wouldn't have to read the entire file (__getitem__) and then write the
entire file back (__setitem__). The files are expected to be as big as
600 KB which will be appended 30 bytes at a time about 3 times a
second. Performance-wise the system would probably work without open
(..., 'ab') but it would be a real thrashing so the current solution
uses a method "AddTo" as Robert suggested, sacrificing the neat
getitem/setitem syntax.

Just so I don't leave out any information, I actually also made a
DirectoryDict for having multiple 'tables'. In this DictMixin, keys
are directory names and values are FilesDict instances. So to write
"European or African" to the file "/root/tmp/velocity" one would be
just:
>>> d = DirectoryDict("/root")
>>> d["tmp"]["velocity"] = "European or African"

So now I hope it's clearer why and how I wanted a special
__item_iadd__ for the dictionary syntax,

RunThePun


From dickinsm at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 04:01:37 2009
From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 01:01:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
References: 
	 
	
	
	<0022fef9$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 29, 8:03?pm, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 11:11:43 -0700, zaur wrote:
> > I thought that int as object will stay the same object after += but with
> > another integer value. My intuition said me that int object which
> > represent integer value should behave this way.
>
> If it did, then you would have this behaviour:
>
> >>> n = 3 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # bind the name n to the object 3
> >>> saved_id = id(n) ? ? ? ? ?# get the id of the object
> >>> n += 1 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?# add one to the object 3
> >>> assert n == 4 ? ? ? ? ? ? # confirm that it has value four
> >>> assert id(n) == saved_id ?# confirm that it is the same object
> >>> m = 3 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # bind the name m to the object 3
> >>> print m + 1 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # but object 3 has been modified
>
> 5

I don't see how that follows.  In an alternative interpretation, the
int literals would all be thought of as distinct objects:  that is,
the line 'n = 3' creates an integer object with value 3 and binds the
name n to it;  the later line 'm = 3' then creates another *new*
integer object with value 3 and binds the name m to it.  In other
words, it could work in exactly the same way as the following works in
Python:

>>> n = {}
>>> n[1729] = 10585
>>> m = {}
>>> m
{}

The modification to n doesn't affect m, since the two occurrences of
{} give distinct dictionary objects.

--
Mark


From garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk  Sun Aug 30 04:17:54 2009
From: garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk (garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 08:17:54 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

r  wrote:
 
> Some may say well how can we possibly force countries/people to speak/
> code in a uniform manner? Well that's simple, you just stop supporting
> their cryptic languages by dumping Unicode and returning to the
> beautiful ASCII and adopting English as the universal world language.
v> Why English? Well because it is so widely spoken. But whatever we
> choose just choose one language and stick with it, perfect it, and
> maintain it.
> 

Y?know, it is na?ve to think that the ?beautiful? ASCII is
sufficient for English?

Besides, there is the APL... (though, you are right, we should dump
those crappy old languages and use Python exclusively)

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------
| Radovan Garab?k http://kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk/~garabik/ |
| __..--^^^--..__    garabik @ kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk     |
 -----------------------------------------------------------
Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus.
Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!


From catalinfest at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 04:20:15 2009
From: catalinfest at gmail.com (catalinfest at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 01:20:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How i follow tree folders from url
Message-ID: <9f163791-417a-49e1-903b-54154ed3bc2b@p9g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

Hello !

I wanna use python to follow the tree folders from one url.
Example :
If url is "www.site.com/first/ and "
"first" is first folder with next subfolders "01","02","03"
The result of script should be :

www.site.com/first/01/
www.site.com/first/02/
www.site.com/first/03/
Maybe urllib has some functions , but i don't know them.

Please help me !
Thank you !


From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Sun Aug 30 04:33:43 2009
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 10:33:43 +0200
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	<6Djmm.14757$ze1.10295@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	
Message-ID: 

* r (Sat, 29 Aug 2009 18:30:34 -0700 (PDT))
> We don't support a Python group in Chinese or French, so why this?

"We" do - you don't (or to be more realistic, you simply didn't know 
it).

> Makes no sense to me really.

Like probably 99.99999% of all things you hear, read, see and encounter 
during the day.

By the way: the dumbness of your "Unicode rant" would have even ashamed 
the great XL himself.

Thorsten


From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Sun Aug 30 04:38:03 2009
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 10:38:03 +0200
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	<6Djmm.14757$ze1.10295@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

* Neil Hodgson (Sun, 30 Aug 2009 06:17:14 GMT)
> Chris Jones:
> 
> > I am not from these climes but all the same, I do find you tone of
> > voice rather offensive, considering that you are referring to a
> > culture that's about 3000 years older and 3000 richer than ours and
> > certainly deserves our respect.
> 
> Eh? Was Unicode developed in India? China?

Chris was obviously talking about Sanskrit...

Thorsten


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sun Aug 30 04:39:19 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 01:39:19 -0700
Subject: How i follow tree folders from url
In-Reply-To: <9f163791-417a-49e1-903b-54154ed3bc2b@p9g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: <9f163791-417a-49e1-903b-54154ed3bc2b@p9g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908300139o3247d2e3g8ef9039fd3f6f301@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 1:20 AM,
catalinfest at gmail.com wrote:
> Hello !
>
> I wanna use python to follow the tree folders from one url.
> Example :
> If url is "www.site.com/first/ and "
> "first" is first folder with next subfolders "01","02","03"
> The result of script should be :
>
> www.site.com/first/01/
> www.site.com/first/02/
> www.site.com/first/03/
> Maybe urllib has some functions , but i don't know them.

HTTP has no equivalent to "ls". You have to either know the format the
of URLs yourself or spider the links on a given page.
To generate the URLs if you know the scheme, use range() and str.zfill().

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Sun Aug 30 04:43:24 2009
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 10:43:24 +0200
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	<6Djmm.14757$ze1.10295@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

* Chris Jones (Sun, 30 Aug 2009 00:22:00 -0400)
> On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 11:07:17PM EDT, Neil Hodgson wrote:
> > Sanskrit is mostly written in Devanagari these days which is also
> > useful for selling things to people who speak Hindi and other Indian
> > languages.
> 
> Is the implication that the principal usefulness of such languages as
> Hindi and "other Indian languages" is us selling "things" to them..? I
> am not from these climes but all the same, I do find you tone of voice
> rather offensive, considering that you are referring to a culture that's
> about 3000 years older and 3000 richer than ours and certainly deserves
> our respect.

Neil was obviously talking about Devanagari. Please also mind the 
principal difference between Neil's "also useful" and your "principal 
useful(ness)".

Thorsten


From solipsis at pitrou.net  Sun Aug 30 04:48:43 2009
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 08:48:43 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

r  gmail.com> writes:
> 
> Why should the larger world
> keep supporting such antiquated languages and character sets through
> Unicode? What purpose does this serve? Are we merely trying to make
> everyone happy? A sort of Utopian free-language-love-fest-kinda-
> thing?

Can you go and troll somewhere else?

Thanks.

Antoine.




From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Sun Aug 30 04:53:04 2009
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 10:53:04 +0200
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

* John Machin (Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:20:47 -0700 (PDT))
> On Aug 30, 8:46?am, r  wrote:
> >
> > Take for instance the Chinese language with it's thousands of
> > characters and BS, it's more of an art than a language. ?Why do we
> > need such complicated languages in this day and time. Many languages
> > have been perfected, (although not perfect) far beyond that of
> > Chinese language.
> 
> The Chinese language is more widely spoken than English, is quite
> capable of expression in ASCII ("r tongzhi shi sha gua") and doesn't
> have those pesky it's/its problems.

You could also put it differently: the Chinese language (like any other 
language) doesn't even have "characters". It's really funny to see how 
someone who rants about Unicode doesn't event knows the most basic 
facts.

Thorsten


From 71david at libero.it  Sun Aug 30 05:18:35 2009
From: 71david at libero.it (David)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 11:18:35 +0200
Subject: Why does this group have so much spam?
References: <7294bf8b-9819-4b6d-92b2-afc1c8042a06@x6g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7l1wem586nhf.c8spq9wpqg99.dlg@40tude.net>

Il Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:18:46 -0700 (PDT), casebash ha scritto:

> So much of it could be removed even by simple keyword filtering.

I think there is only one final solution to the spam pestilence: a tiny tax
on email and posts.
Spammers send hundreds of thousands of emails/posts a day and a tax of
0.0001$ each does not harm normal users but discurages spammers. This tax
should be applied when a message is routed by a ISP server, this saves
mails/posts internal to a LAN.
Direct costs of this tax would be compensated by the simplified management
of network traffic (70-90% of mail traffic is spam) and the reduced risk of
virus infections.

David


From larudwer at freenet.de  Sun Aug 30 05:21:46 2009
From: larudwer at freenet.de (larudwer)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 11:21:46 +0200
Subject: weak reference callback
References: 
Message-ID: 


"Paul Pogonyshev"  schrieb im Newsbeitrag 
news:mailman.658.1251577954.2854.python-list at python.org...
> Hi,
>
> Is weak reference callback called immediately after the referenced
> object is deleted or at arbitrary point in time after that?  I.e. is
> it possible to see a dead reference before the callback is called?
>
> More formally, will this ever raise?
>
>    callback_called = False
>    def note_deletion (ref):
>        callback_called = True
>    ref = weakref.ref (x, note_deletion)
>    if ref () is None and not callback_called:
>        raise RuntimeError ("reference is dead, yet callback hasn't been 
> called yet")

The Manual says:
"If callback is provided and not None, and the returned weakref object is 
still alive, the callback will be called when the object is about to be 
finalized; the weak reference object will be passed as the only parameter to 
the callback; the referent will no longer be available."

This says that the Object is deleted first, and the callback functions will 
be called after that. Since after 'after that'  IS an arbitrary point in 
time your example SHOULD raise.

I think it is save to assume that this will never raise in an single 
threaded cpython application because the GIL and reference counting scheme 
etc. will prevent this.

However, this is an implementation specific detail of the cpython runtime 
and it is not save to rely on this behavior.
It may be completely different in an multi threaded environment or any other 
implementation of Python.











From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Aug 30 06:34:17 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 30 Aug 2009 10:34:17 GMT
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
References: 
	
	
	
	<0022fef9$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <0023d927$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 02:33:05 -0500, Derek Martin wrote:

> On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 07:03:23PM +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 11:11:43 -0700, zaur wrote:
>> 
>> > I thought that int as object will stay the same object after += but
>> > with another integer value. My intuition said me that int object
>> > which represent integer value should behave this way.
>> 
>> If it did, then you would have this behaviour:
> 
> No, you wouldn't; the behavior you described is completely different
> from, and incompatible with, what zaur wrote.
> 
> He's saying that instead of thinking the integer value of 3 itself being
> the object, he expected Python's object model would behave as though the
> entity m is the object, and that object exists to contain an integer
> value.

What is "the entity m"?

Is it the name m, as follows?

>>> m = 3  # bind the object 3 to the name m

Or is it the literal "3" (without quotes)?

Or an object holding the value three?

Or something else?


> In that case, m is always m, 
> but it has whatever integer value
> it is told to hold at any point in time.  The self-referential addition
> would access the value of m, add the operand, and store the result back
> in the same object as the object's value.

Ah wait, I think I get it... is m a memory location? So when you say:

m = 3

the memory location that m represents is set to the value 3, and when you 
say:

m += 1

the memory location that m represents is set to the value 4?

That would be how Pascal and C (and presumably other languages) work, but 
not Python or Ruby or even VB (so I'm told) and similar languages. Java 
has a hybrid model, where a few data types (such as ints) are handled 
like C, and everything else is handled like Python. Consistency was never 
Java's strong suit.


> This is not the way Python
> works, but he's saying this is the intuitive behavior.

It isn't intuitive if you've never been exposed to Pascal- or C-like 
languages. If your only programming language was Haskell, the very idea 
of mutating values would be alien. So I guess when you say "the intuitive 
behaviour", what you actually mean is "familiar".


> I happen to
> agree, and argued at length with you and others about that very thing
> months ago, when some other third party posted with that exact same
> confusion.
> 
> By contrast, your description maintains the concept of numerical value
> as object that Python uses, and completely misses the point.  I did find
> the description you gave to be highly enlightening though...  It
> highlighted perfectly, I think, exactly why it is that Python's behavior
> regarding numerical values as objects is *not* intuitive.  Of course,
> intuition is highly subjective.

What exactly is it about Python's behaviour regarding numbers that is not 
intuitive? That you can't do this?

>>> anum = 2
>>> alist = [anum]
>>> anum += 1
>>> print alist  # this doesn't work
[3]

That won't work in any language that I know of -- as far as I am aware, 
the above is impossible in just about every common programming language. 
(My C and VB are nearly non-existent, so I may be wrong about them.) Here 
is Ruby's behaviour:

irb(main):001:0> anum = 2
=> 2
irb(main):002:0> alist = [anum]
=> [2]
irb(main):003:0> anum += 1
=> 3
irb(main):004:0> puts alist
2
=> nil


Just like Python.


> I believe it boils down to this:  People expect that objects they create
> are mutable.

Why would they expect that? Is there any evidence apart from the 
anecdotal complaints of a few people that they expect this? People 
complain equally when they use a mutable default value and it mutates, or 
that they can't use mutable objects as dict keys, so this suggests that 
people expect objects should be immutable and are surprised when they 
change.

If you're going to argue by analogy with the real world (as you do 
further on), I think it's fair to argue that some objects are mutable 
(pieces of rubber that expand into a balloon when you blow into them), 
and some are immutable unless you expend extraordinary effort (rocks). I 
would be gobsmacked if my desk turned pink or changed into an armchair, I 
expect it to be essentially unchanging and immutable. But I fully expect 
a banana to turn black, then squishy, and finally white and fuzzy if I 
leave it long enough.


> At least, unless they specify otherwise.  It is so in some
> other programming languages which people may be likely to be familiar
> with (if they are not taking their first forray into the world of
> computing by learning Python), and even "real world" objects are
> essentially always mutable.
[snip example of a 2002 Buick LeSabre]

Be careful bringing real-world examples into this. People have been 
arguing about identity in the real-world for millennia. See, for example, 
the paradox of my great-grandfather's axe. My great-grandfather's axe is 
still in my family after 80 years, as good as new, although the handle 
has been replaced four times and the head twice. But it's still the same 
axe. An even older example is the paradox of the Ship of Theseus.


> Numbers are fundamentally different from objects.  The number 3 is a
> symbol of the idea of the existence of three countable objects.  It can
> not be changed 

Doesn't this contradict your claim that people expect to be able to 
mutate numbers? That you should be able to do this?

>>> x = 3
>>> id(x)
123456
>>> x += 1
>>> assert x == 4
>>> id(x)
123456


You can't have it both ways -- if people think of objects as mutable, and 
think of numbers as not-objects and unchanging, then why oh why would 
they find Python's numeric behaviour to be unintuitive?


> (though it can be renamed, if you so choose -- just don't
> expect most people to know what you're talking about).  It is
> unintuitive that 3 is an object; 

Says you. People have considered numbers to be eternal, unchanging, 
immutable entities going back to at least Plato. If people are 
comfortable thinking that there are Platonic ideal numbers, why wouldn't 
they think of them represented in computers as immutable objects?

What I think is that some people, such as you and Zaur, have *learned* 
from C-like languages that numbers are mutable not-objects, and you've 
learned it so well that you've forgotten that you ever needed to learn 
it. Consequently what you actually mean when you say Python is 
unintuitive is that Python is not like some other language (and is like 
yet other languages).


> it is rather what we use to describe
> objects -- the value of the object.  It is an abstract concept, and as
> such it is not an object at all.  You cannot hear 3, taste 3, nor smell
> 3.  You can neither see nor touch 3, though you can certainly see 3
> *objects* if they are present, and you can certainly see the symbol '3'
> that we use to represent that idea... but you can not see three itself,
> because there is no such object.

Human beings are excellent at reifying abstract things into (imaginary) 
objects. We talk about letting in the cold (we actually let out the 
heat); we talk about souls and life-force as if they are things; we treat 
justice and love and mercy and hate as palpable things instead of 
emotions and abstract entities. Plato imagined that everything has a 
pure, abstract form, an ideal, and people find that intuitive: we expect 
that there is an archetypal "chair" that embodies everything that is 
chair-like and nothing which is not, if only we could find it.

Numbers are no different. Reifying them into objects comes easy to people 
who haven't learned differently.


> The only way to see three is to
> envision 3 of some object.  The number 3 does not have a value; it IS a
> value (it is the symbolic representation of the value of three).  To say
> that 3 is an object that has a value is a bit like saying the length of
> a car is an object that itself has a length. 

No, the length of a car is an object which *is* a length, it doesn't 
*have* a length.


> It just doesn't compute.

None of this explains why you would expect to be able to mutate the value 
three and turn it into four.

I don't think your argument makes sense -- I think your explanation is 
tangled up in knots. Everything you say about numbers being unchangeable, 
immutable entities supports Python's behaviour to make numbers immutable, 
and yet you argue that since people expect numbers to be unchanging, they 
therefore expect Python ints to be mutable! This makes no sense.


> THAT is why Python's behavior with regard to numerical objects is not
> intuitive, and frankly bizzare to me, and I dare say to others who find
> it so.
> 
> Yes, that's right.  BIZZARE.

I think you have confused yourself. If the number three cannot change, 
and you have a label "m" associated with three, then if you add one to 
it, you *can't* have the three mutate into a four, because numbers cannot 
change. Obviously the label has to detach itself off the three and onto 
the four -- precisely the behaviour Python uses. Plato would surely have 
found this commonsensical, and I would say that it's only those who have 
become used to Pascal-like languages that don't.


-- 
Steven


From ptmcg at austin.rr.com  Sun Aug 30 06:42:06 2009
From: ptmcg at austin.rr.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 03:42:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
References: 
	 
	
	
	<0022fef9$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <725bcd4c-01ed-489d-baa4-288a5c492831@m20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 30, 2:33?am, Derek Martin  wrote:
> THAT is why Python's behavior with regard to numerical objects is
> not intuitive, and frankly bizzare to me, and I dare say to others who
> find it so.
>
> Yes, that's right. ?BIZZARE.
>

Can't we all just get along?

I think the question boils down to "where is the object?".  In this
statement:

a = 3

which is the object, a or 3?

There exist languages (such as C++) that allow you to override the '='
assignment as a class operator.  So that I could create a class where
I decided that assigning an integer value to it applies some
application logic, probably the setting of some fundamental
attribute.  In that language, 'a' is the object, and 3 is a value
being assigned to it.  This can cause some consternation when a reader
(or worse, maintainer) isn't familiar with my code, sees this simple
assignment, and figures that they can use 'a' elsewhere as a simple
integer, with some surprising or disturbing results.

Python just doesn't work that way.

Python binds values to names. Always. In Python, "=" is not and never
could be a class operator.  In Python, any expression of LHS = RHS,
LHS is always a name, and in this statement it is being bound to some
object found by evaluating the right hand side, RHS.

The bit of confusion here is that the in-place operators like +=, -=,
etc. are something of a misnomer - obviously a *name* can't be
incremented or decremented (unlike a pointer in C or C++).  One has to
see that these are really shortcuts for LHS = LHS + RHS, and once
again, our LHS is just a name getting bound to the result of LHS +
RHS.  Is this confusing, or non-intuitive? Maybe. Do you want to write
code in Python? Get used to it.  It is surprising how many times we
think things are "intuitive" when we really mean they are "familiar".
For long-time C and Java developers, it is intuitive that variables
are memory locations, and switching to Python's name model for them is
non-intuitive.

As for your quibble about "3 is not an object", I'm afraid that may be
your own personal set of blinders.  Integer constants as objects is
not unique to Python, you can see it in other languages - Smalltalk
and Ruby are two that I know personally.  Ruby implements a loop using
this interesting notation:

3.times do
   ...do something...
end

Of course, it is a core idiom of the language, and if I adopted Ruby,
I would adopt its idioms and object model.

Is it any odder that 3 is an object than that the string literal
"Hello, World!" is an object?  Perhaps we are just not reminded of it
so often, because Python's int class defines no methods that are not
"__" special methods (type in "dir(3)" at the Python prompt).  So we
never see any Python code referencing a numeric literal and
immediately calling a method on it, as in Ruby's simple loop
construct.  But we do see methods implemented on str like split(), and
so "about above across after against".split() gives me a list of the
English prepositions that begin with "a". We see this kind of thing
often enough, we get accustomed to the objectness of string literals.
It gets to be so familiar, it eventually seems "intuitive".  You
yourself mentioned that intuition is subjective - unfortunately, the
"intuitiveness" of a feature is often tied to its value as a coding
concept, and so statements of non-intuitiveness can be interpreted as
a slant against the virtue of that concept, or even against the
language itself.

Once we accept that 3 is an object, we clearly have to stipulate that
there can be no changes allowed to it.  3 must *always* have the value
of the integer between 2 and 4.  So our language invokes the concept
that some classes create instances that are immutable.

For a Python long-timer like Mr. D'Aprano, I don't think he even
consciously thinks about this kind of thing any more; his intuition
has aligned with the Python stars, so he extrapolates from the OP's
suggestion to the resulting aberrant behavior, as he posted it.

You can dispute and rail at this core language concept if you like,
but I think the more entrenched you become in the position that "'3 is
an object' is bizarre", the less enjoyable your Python work will be.

-- Paul


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Aug 30 06:44:48 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 30 Aug 2009 10:44:48 GMT
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
References: 
	
	
	
	<0022fef9$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <0023db9f$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 01:01:37 -0700, Mark Dickinson wrote:

> On Aug 29, 8:03?pm, Steven D'Aprano  cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>> On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 11:11:43 -0700, zaur wrote:
>> > I thought that int as object will stay the same object after += but
>> > with another integer value. My intuition said me that int object
>> > which represent integer value should behave this way.
>>
>> If it did, then you would have this behaviour:
>>
>> >>> n = 3 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # bind the name n to the object 3
>> >>> saved_id = id(n) ? ? ? ? ?# get the id of the object n += 1 ? ? ? ?
>> >>> ? ? ? ? ? ?# add one to the object 3 assert n == 4 ? ? ? ? ? ? #
>> >>> confirm that it has value four assert id(n) == saved_id ?# confirm
>> >>> that it is the same object m = 3 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # bind the
>> >>> name m to the object 3 print m + 1 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # but object 3 has
>> >>> been modified
>>
>> 5
> 
> I don't see how that follows.

Okay, it follows given Python's caching of small integer objects.

It also follows from the idea that there is one abstract entity which 
English speakers call "three" and write as 3. There's not two identical 
entities with value 3, or four, or a million of them, only one.

But of course your alternative implementation (where every time the 
Python VM sees the literal 3 it creates a new integer object with that 
value) would also be a valid, albeit inefficient, implementation. To be 
honest, I didn't even think of that.


-- 
Steven


From ptmcg at austin.rr.com  Sun Aug 30 06:52:36 2009
From: ptmcg at austin.rr.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 03:52:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
References: 
	 
	
	
	<0022fef9$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	 
	<725bcd4c-01ed-489d-baa4-288a5c492831@m20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <71e92f9c-4094-409d-95d7-9836737d4dc2@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 30, 5:42?am, Paul McGuire  wrote:
> Python binds values to names. Always. In Python, "=" is not and never
> could be a class operator. ?In Python, any expression of LHS = RHS,
> LHS is always a name, and in this statement it is being bound to some
> object found by evaluating the right hand side, RHS.
>
An interesting side note, and one that could be granted to the OP, is
that Python *does* support the definition of class operator overrides
for in-place assignment operators like += (by defining a method
__iadd__).  This is how numpy's values accomplish their mutability.

> It is surprising how many times we
> think things are "intuitive" when we really mean they are "familiar".
Of course, just as I was typing my response, Steve D'Aprano beat me to
the punch.

Maybe it's time we added a new acronym to this group's ongoing
discussions: PDWTW, or "Python doesn't work that way".

-- Paul


From marduk at letterboxes.org  Sun Aug 30 07:09:46 2009
From: marduk at letterboxes.org (Albert Hopkins)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 07:09:46 -0400
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
In-Reply-To: <0023db9f$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 
	
	
	
	<0022fef9$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<0023db9f$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <1251630586.9674.0.camel@centar.nbk>

On Sun, 2009-08-30 at 10:44 +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> It also follows from the idea that there is one abstract entity which 
> English speakers call "three" and write as 3. There's not two
> identical 
> entities with value 3, or four, or a million of them, only one.

That's not true.  There are many different 3s in all the parallel
universes. ;)

-a



From webcokies at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 30 07:19:10 2009
From: webcokies at yahoo.com (Joni Lee)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 04:19:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: a popen question. Please help
Message-ID: <473423.84282.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi all,

I write a small script

texts = os.popen('top').readlines()
print texts

It calls the command line "top" and will print out some texts.
But first I have to press the keyboard "q" to quit the subprocess "top", then the texts will be printed, otherwise it just stands by with blank.

Question
is. Do you know how to give "q" into my python script so that "top" is
automatically quit immediately or maybe after 1s and print out the texts.

Thank you



      
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From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 07:26:54 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 04:26:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
References: 
	 
	
	
	<0022fef9$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <0221274c-994d-4130-93bb-a5fb528e7b83@x6g2000prc.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 30, 12:33?am, Derek Martin  wrote:
[snip rant]
> THAT is why Python's behavior with regard to numerical objects is
> not intuitive, and frankly bizzare to me, and I dare say to others who
> find it so.
>
> Yes, that's right. ?BIZZARE.

You mean it's different from how you first learned it.


Carl Banks


From rolfpw at online.de  Sun Aug 30 07:34:46 2009
From: rolfpw at online.de (Rolf)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 13:34:46 +0200
Subject: How to install setuptools...egg?
Message-ID: 

Hi,

I would like to install setuptools for Python2.6 on Windows. 
Unfortunately I could only find setuptools-0.6c9-py2.6.egg but no *.exe 
for Python2.6. And as far as I understand I need setuptools to install a 
Python egg. I would be very appreciative for any help.

Regards

Rolf


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Sun Aug 30 07:43:19 2009
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 06:43:19 -0500
Subject: a popen question. Please help
In-Reply-To: <473423.84282.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <473423.84282.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4A9A65D7.4020308@tim.thechases.com>

> texts = os.popen('top').readlines()
> print texts
> 
> It calls the command line "top" and will print out some texts.
> But first I have to press the keyboard "q" to quit the subprocess "top", then the texts will be printed, otherwise it just stands by with blank.
> 
> Question
> is. Do you know how to give "q" into my python script so that "top" is
> automatically quit immediately or maybe after 1s and print out the texts.

Well as a workaround, my version of top (on Debian) supports a 
"-n" parameter so you can tell it how many iterations you want it 
to perform before quitting.  So you should be able to just use

   os.popen('top -n1').readlines()

-tkc





From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sun Aug 30 07:49:17 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 04:49:17 -0700
Subject: a popen question. Please help
In-Reply-To: <4A9A65D7.4020308@tim.thechases.com>
References: <473423.84282.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4A9A65D7.4020308@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908300449i65d22994ra6d63b0bbdb1d201@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 4:43 AM, Tim Chase wrote:
>> texts = os.popen('top').readlines()
>> print texts
>>
>> It calls the command line "top" and will print out some texts.
>> But first I have to press the keyboard "q" to quit the subprocess "top",
>> then the texts will be printed, otherwise it just stands by with blank.
>>
>> Question
>> is. Do you know how to give "q" into my python script so that "top" is
>> automatically quit immediately or maybe after 1s and print out the texts.
>
> Well as a workaround, my version of top (on Debian) supports a "-n"
> parameter so you can tell it how many iterations you want it to perform
> before quitting. ?So you should be able to just use
>
> ?os.popen('top -n1').readlines()

Hm, interesting. On Mac OS X's (and BSD's?) top, -n instead specifies
the number of processes to list at a time (i.e. list only the top N
processes), which is entirely different.

Cheers,
Chris


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 07:49:51 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 04:49:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
References: 
	 
	
	
	<0022fef9$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	 
	<0023d927$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <051da35f-efc2-4c4a-9b87-6d7db59c4529@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 30, 3:34?am, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 02:33:05 -0500, Derek Martin wrote:
> > On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 07:03:23PM +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> >> On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 11:11:43 -0700, zaur wrote:
>
> >> > I thought that int as object will stay the same object after += but
> >> > with another integer value. My intuition said me that int object
> >> > which represent integer value should behave this way.
>
> >> If it did, then you would have this behaviour:
>
> > No, you wouldn't; the behavior you described is completely different
> > from, and incompatible with, what zaur wrote.
>
> > He's saying that instead of thinking the integer value of 3 itself being
> > the object, he expected Python's object model would behave as though the
> > entity m is the object, and that object exists to contain an integer
> > value.
>
> What is "the entity m"?

I think they (Derek and zaur) expect integer objects to be mutable.

It's pretty common for people coming from "name is a location in
memory" languages to have this conception of integers as an
intermediate stage of learning Python's object system.  Even once
they've understood "everything is an object" and "names are references
to objects" they won't have learned all the nuances of the system, and
might still (not unreasonably) think integer objects could be mutable.

However, it'd be nice if all these people didn't post here whining
about how surprising and unintuitive it is and instead just said, "ah,
integers are immutable, got it", quietly to themselves.


Carl Banks


From deets at nospam.web.de  Sun Aug 30 07:51:21 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: 30 Aug 2009 11:51:21 GMT
Subject: How to install setuptools...egg?
References: 
Message-ID: <36484556273325783.562061deets-nospam.web.de@news.hansenet.de>

Rolf  wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I would like to install setuptools for Python2.6 on Windows. 
> Unfortunately I could only find setuptools-0.6c9-py2.6.egg but no
> *.exe 
> for Python2.6. And as far as I understand I need setuptools to install
> a 
> Python egg. I would be very appreciative for any help.


You bootstrap setuptools by downloading & executing ez_setup.py. 


Diez


From cjw at ncf.ca  Sun Aug 30 08:08:20 2009
From: cjw at ncf.ca (Colin J. Williams)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 08:08:20 -0400
Subject: How to install setuptools...egg?
In-Reply-To: <36484556273325783.562061deets-nospam.web.de@news.hansenet.de>
References: 
	<36484556273325783.562061deets-nospam.web.de@news.hansenet.de>
Message-ID: 

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> Rolf  wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I would like to install setuptools for Python2.6 on Windows. 
>> Unfortunately I could only find setuptools-0.6c9-py2.6.egg but no
>> *.exe 
>> for Python2.6. And as far as I understand I need setuptools to install
>> a 
>> Python egg. I would be very appreciative for any help.
> 
> 
> You bootstrap setuptools by downloading & executing ez_setup.py. 
> 
> 
> Diez
You might try, at the command line:
   easy_install setuptools

Colin W.



From abecedarian314159 at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 30 08:10:20 2009
From: abecedarian314159 at yahoo.com (William)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 05:10:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <669926.22777.qm@web110604.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

For wxFormbuilder, does it also support AUI (dockable windows,etc.)?

Thanks,
William

--- On Wed, 8/26/09, Robert Kern  wrote:

From: Robert Kern 
Subject: Re: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
To: python-list at python.org
Date: Wednesday, August 26, 2009, 7:40 PM

On 2009-08-26 18:08 PM, sturlamolden wrote:
> On 26 Aug, 22:47, David C Ullrich? wrote:
> 
>>> Nothing, except lobbying for wxFormBuilder for anyone who still doesn't
>>> know of it. :)
>> 
>> That's great. But do you know of anything I can use as a
>> visual form design tool in wxPython?
> 
> Right... I don't know if you are trying to be funny, but as I said
> there is wxFormBuilder...
> 
> 3.0 generates XRC that you can use with wxPython.
> 3.1 beta generates wxPython classes you can subclass.
> 
> Honestly, it's the best GUI builder for wxPython I know of.

It's possible that he is not asking for a visual form designer tool *for* building a wxPython app, but one that can be used *inside* a wxPython app like an IDE or something similar.

-- Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
 that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
 an underlying truth."
? -- Umberto Eco

-- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



      
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From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Sun Aug 30 08:11:15 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 14:11:15 +0200
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
In-Reply-To: 
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <200908301411.15680.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Sunday 30 August 2009 02:20:47 John Machin wrote:
> On Aug 30, 8:46?am, r  wrote:
> > Take for instance the Chinese language with it's thousands of
> > characters and BS, it's more of an art than a language. ?Why do we
> > need such complicated languages in this day and time. Many languages
> > have been perfected, (although not perfect) far beyond that of Chinese
> > language.
>
> The Chinese language is more widely spoken than English, is quite
> capable of expression in ASCII ("r tongzhi shi sha gua") and doesn't
> have those pesky it's/its problems.
>
> > The A-Z char set is flawless!
>
> ... for expressing the sounds of a very limited number of languages,
> and English is *NOT* one of those.

I suspect that the alphabet is not ideal for representing the sounds of _any_ 
language, and I would look for my proof in the plethora of things that we use 
when writing, other than the bare A-Z.   - Punctuation, diacritics...

But what really started me thinking, after reading this post of John's, read 
with Dennis'. - on the dissimilarity of the spoken and written Chinese - was 
the basic dichotomy of the two systems - a symbol for a sound vs a symbol for 
a word or an idea.

I know that when I read, I do not actually read the characters, I recognize 
words, and only fall back to messing with characters when I hit something 
unfamiliar.

So It would seem to me that r's "utopia" could sooner be realized if the 
former system were abandoned in favour of the latter. - and Horrors!  The 
language of choice would not be English!

Not that I agree that it would be a Utopia, whatever the language  - more like 
a nightmare of Orwellian proportions - because the language you get taught 
first, moulds the way you think.  And I know from personal experience that 
there are concepts that can be succinctly expressed in one language, that 
takes a lot of wordy handwaving to get across in another.  So diversity would 
be less, creativity would suffer due to lack of cross pollination, and 
progress would slow or stop.

- Hendrik


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Sun Aug 30 08:17:08 2009
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 07:17:08 -0500
Subject: a popen question. Please help
In-Reply-To: <50697b2c0908300449i65d22994ra6d63b0bbdb1d201@mail.gmail.com>
References: <473423.84282.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<4A9A65D7.4020308@tim.thechases.com>
	<50697b2c0908300449i65d22994ra6d63b0bbdb1d201@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A9A6DC4.5060804@tim.thechases.com>

>>  os.popen('top -n1').readlines()
> 
> Hm, interesting. On Mac OS X's (and BSD's?) top, -n instead specifies
> the number of processes to list at a time (i.e. list only the top N
> processes), which is entirely different.

[reaching over to my Mac] Looks like "top" there supports a -l 
parameter which does something similar.

Darn "standards" :-/

-tkc






From rt8396 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 08:19:45 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 05:19:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <3e9ddb9b-8f61-4d8d-a25c-7e95e8a25c06@g1g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 29, 11:05?pm, Anny Mous  wrote:
(snip)
> How do we distinguish resume from r?sum? without accents?

This is another quirk of some languages that befuddles me. What is
with the ongoing language pronunciation tutorial some languages have
turned into -- French is a good example (*puke*). Do you *really* need
those squiggly lines and cues above letters so you won't forget how to
pronounce a word. Pure ridiculousness!

> Even when we succeed in banning all languages that can't be written using
> A-Z, what do we do about the vast number of legacy documents? How do we
> write about obsolete English letters like ? and ? without Unicode?

Who gives a fig about obsolete languages, thank god they are dead and
let's move on!!


> > Some may say well how can we possibly force countries/people to speak/
> > code in a uniform manner? Well that's simple, you just stop supporting
> > their cryptic languages by dumping Unicode and returning to the
> > beautiful ASCII and adopting English as the universal world language.
> > Why English? Well because it is so widely spoken.
>
> World population: 6.7 billion
>
> Number of native Mandarin speakers: 873 million
> Number of native Hindi speakers: 370 million
> Number of native Spanish speakers: 350 million
> Number of native English speakers: 340 million
>
> Total number of Mandarin speakers: 1051 million
> Total number of English speakers: 510 million
>
> http://www.vistawide.com/languages/top_30_languages.htm

I was actually referring to countries where the majority of people
*actually* know what a computer is and how to use it... If there
culture has not caught up with western technology yet they are doomed
to the fate of native American Indians.

> Whichever way you look at it, we should all convert to Mandarin, not
> English. Looks like we still need Unicode.

see my last comment

(snip entertaining assumptions)

> Yes, because language differences have utterly destroyed us so many times in
> the past!
>
> Have you thought about the difference between China, with one culture and
> one spoken language for thousands of years, and Europe, with dozens of
> competing cultures, competing governments, and alternate languages for just
> as long? If multiple languages are so harmful, why was it the British,
> French, Japanese, Russians, Germans, Italians, Austrians, Hungarians and
> Americans who were occupying China during the Opium Wars and the Boxer
> Rebellion, instead of the other way around?
>
> Strength comes from diversity, not monoculture.

No strength comes from superior firepower. The Chinese culture stop
evolving thousands of years ago. Who invented gun powder? Yes the
Chinese and all they could do with it was create fireworks. Europeans
took gun powered and started a revolution that changes the world
forever -- for better and for worse, but that is how advancements
work. It wasn't until western influence came along and finally nudged
china into the 21st century. Europeans seek out technology and aren't
dragged down by an antiquated culture which is good for innovation. If
China with it's huge population thought like a European, they would
rule the earth for 10,000 years.



From rt8396 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 08:25:58 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 05:25:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	<6Djmm.14757$ze1.10295@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	
	
Message-ID: <9077a084-bf0c-4480-b6e4-59f62558f3f4@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 30, 3:33?am, Thorsten Kampe  wrote:
[snip ridiculous trolling]
> Thorsten

Hmm, I wonder who's sock puppet you are Thorsten?


From lists at cheimes.de  Sun Aug 30 08:27:06 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 14:27:06 +0200
Subject: How to install setuptools...egg?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<36484556273325783.562061deets-nospam.web.de@news.hansenet.de>
	
Message-ID: 

Colin J. Williams wrote:
> You might try, at the command line:
>    easy_install setuptools


That's not going to work. setuptools provides the easy_install command.
If you have the easy_install command than setuptools is already installed.

Christian



From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Sun Aug 30 08:41:23 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 05:41:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 30, 4:47?pm, Dennis Lee Bieber  wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 14:05:24 +1000, Anny Mous 
> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>
> > Have you thought about the difference between China, with one culture and
> > one spoken language for thousands of years, and Europe, with dozens of
>
> ? ? ? ? China has one WRITTEN language -- It has multiple SPOKEN languages

... hence Chinese movies have subtitles in Chinese. And it can't
really be called one written language. For a start there are the
Traditional characters and the Simplified characters. Then there are
regional variations and add-ons e.g. the Hong Kong Special Character
Set (now added into Unicode): not academic-only stuff, includes
surnames, the "Hang" in Hang Seng Index and Hang Seng Bank, and the
5th character of the Chinese name of The Hongkong and Shanghai Banking
Corporation Limited on the banknotes it issues.

> (the main two being mandarin and cantonese -- with enough differences
> between them that they might as well be spanish vs italian)

Mandarin and Cantonese are groups of languages/dialects. Rough figures
(millions): Mandarin 850, Wu 90, Min and Cantonese about 70 each. The
intelligibility comparison is more like Romanian vs Portuguese, or
Icelandic vs Dutch. I've heard that the PLA used Shanghainese (Wu
group) as code talkers just like the USMC used Navajos.



From rt8396 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 08:49:19 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 05:49:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 30, 7:11?am, Hendrik van Rooyen 
wrote:
(snip)
> I suspect that the alphabet is not ideal for representing the sounds of _any_
> language, and I would look for my proof in the plethora of things that we use
> when writing, other than the bare A-Z. ? - Punctuation, diacritics...

It can be made better and if that means add/removing letters or
redefining what a letter represents i am fine with that. I know first
hand the hypocrisy of the English language. I am thinking more on the
lines of English redux!

> Not that I agree that it would be a Utopia, whatever the language ?- more like
> a nightmare of Orwellian proportions - because the language you get taught
> first, moulds the way you think. ?And I know from personal experience that
> there are concepts that can be succinctly expressed in one language, that
> takes a lot of wordy handwaving to get across in another. ?So diversity would
> be less, creativity would suffer due to lack of cross pollination, and
> progress would slow or stop.

We already live in a Orwellian language nightmare. Have you seen much
change to the English language in your lifetime? i haven't. A language
must constantly evolve and trim the excess cruft that pollutes it. And
English has a mountain of cruft! After all our years on this planet i
think it's high time to perfect a simplified language for world-wide
usage.



From bh at izb.knu.ac.kr  Sun Aug 30 09:23:33 2009
From: bh at izb.knu.ac.kr (Byung-Hee HWANG)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 22:23:33 +0900
Subject: Why does this group have so much spam?
References: <7294bf8b-9819-4b6d-92b2-afc1c8042a06@x6g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <86vdk5o2p6.fsf@betla.izb.knu.ac.kr>

casebash  writes:

> So much of it could be removed even by simple keyword filtering.

Use python-list at python.org [1], instead.

[1] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

-- 
"He's a responsible man in his own way."
		-- Michael Corleone, "Chapter 25", page 363


From szport at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 09:32:22 2009
From: szport at gmail.com (zaur)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 06:32:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
References: 
	 
	
	
	<0022fef9$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

On 29 ???, 23:03, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 11:11:43 -0700, zaur wrote:
> > I thought that int as object will stay the same object after += but with
> > another integer value. My intuition said me that int object which
> > represent integer value should behave this way.
>
> If it did, then you would have this behaviour:
>
> >>> n = 3 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # bind the name n to the object 3
> >>> saved_id = id(n) ? ? ? ? ?# get the id of the object
> >>> n += 1 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?# add one to the object 3
> >>> assert n == 4 ? ? ? ? ? ? # confirm that it has value four
> >>> assert id(n) == saved_id ?# confirm that it is the same object
> >>> m = 3 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # bind the name m to the object 3
> >>> print m + 1 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # but object 3 has been modified
>
> 5
>
> This would be pretty disturbing behaviour, and anything but intuitive.
>
> Fortunately, Python avoids this behaviour by making ints immutable. You
> can't change the object 3 to have any other value, it will always have
> value three, and consequently n+=1 assigns a new object to n.
>
> --
> Steven

This behavior is because small integers are cached internally. See

Python 2.6.2 (r262:71600, Apr 16 2009, 09:17:39)
[GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 5250)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> a=1
>>> c=1
>>> d=10000
>>> e=10000
>>> id(a),id(c),id(d),id(e)
(16793992, 16793992, 17067336, 17067276)


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 09:37:19 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 06:37:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 30, 7:11?am, Hendrik van Rooyen 
wrote:
(snip)
> Not that I agree that it would be a Utopia, whatever the language ?- more like
> a nightmare of Orwellian proportions - because the language you get taught
> first, moulds the way you think. ?And I know from personal experience that
> there are concepts that can be succinctly expressed in one language, that
> takes a lot of wordy handwaving to get across in another. ?So diversity would
> be less, creativity would suffer due to lack of cross pollination, and
> progress would slow or stop.
>
> - Hendrik

What makes you think that diversity is lost with a single language? I
say more pollination will occur and the seed will be more potent since
all parties will contribute to the same pool. Sure there will be
idioms of different regions but that is to be expected. But at least
then i could make international crank calls without the language
barrier ;-)


From sergiocharpinel at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 09:51:04 2009
From: sergiocharpinel at gmail.com (Sergio Charpinel Jr.)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 10:51:04 -0300
Subject: Sqlite format string
In-Reply-To: <20090830032422.GA23090@cskk.homeip.net>
References: 
	<20090830032422.GA23090@cskk.homeip.net>
Message-ID: 

Thank you very much.

2009/8/30 Cameron Simpson 

> On 29Aug2009 17:27, Sergio Charpinel Jr. 
> wrote:
> | Hi,
> | I have this statement cursor.execute("SELECT * from session_attribute
> WHERE
> | sid=%s", ( user ))
> | and I'm receiving this error :
> |
> | TypeError: not all arguments converted during string formatting
> |
> | What is wrong ?
>
> This:
>
>  ( user )
>
> is not a tuple containing the element user. It's just user.
>
> This:
>
>  ( user, )
>
> is what you want.
> --
> Cameron Simpson  DoD#743
> http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/
>
> [Alain] had been looking at his dashboard, and had not seen me, so I
> ran into him. - Jean Alesi on his qualifying prang at Imola '93
>



-- 
Sergio Roberto Charpinel Jr.
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From rt8396 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 09:55:34 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 06:55:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to install setuptools...egg?
References: 
	<36484556273325783.562061deets-nospam.web.de@news.hansenet.de> 
	
Message-ID: <2062b940-d248-47e3-adaf-2aaecd83e18c@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 30, 7:08?am, "Colin J. Williams"  wrote:

> You might try, at the command line:
> ? ?easy_install setuptools

Wait maybe you should try this command

>>> help(setuptools)

:-)


From marduk at letterboxes.org  Sun Aug 30 10:12:26 2009
From: marduk at letterboxes.org (Albert Hopkins)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 10:12:26 -0400
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
In-Reply-To: <051da35f-efc2-4c4a-9b87-6d7db59c4529@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	
	
	<0022fef9$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<0023d927$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<051da35f-efc2-4c4a-9b87-6d7db59c4529@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1251641546.14626.17.camel@centar.nbk>

On Sun, 2009-08-30 at 04:49 -0700, Carl Banks wrote:
> It's pretty common for people coming from "name is a location in
> memory" languages to have this conception of integers as an
> intermediate stage of learning Python's object system.  Even once
> they've understood "everything is an object" and "names are references
> to objects" they won't have learned all the nuances of the system, and
> might still (not unreasonably) think integer objects could be mutable.
> 
I agree.  Python (and other similar languages?) are different in that.
'x' does not point to an area in memory, where you can do anything with
that area.  But in Python there are objects, and they are "references"
in memory that some magical "reference counter" keeps track of for us
(and that's a wonderful thing).  And what is 'x'?  Well 'x' is just some
"label" that just so happens to have the privelage of being associated
with this "unnamed" object.  'x' could just as easily associate itself
with another object.

I think that the Blue programming language, which I have been looking at
lately, makes this distinction even clearer.  For example, functions are
not defined by names at all.  Instead of

    def funcname(): ...

You have

    func{...};

If you actually want to be able to reference the function later (as you
probably would) then it's just a simple assignment just like any other
assignment:

    funcname = func{...};

But i think it makes it more clear that "funcname" just so happens to
reference this object that's a function.  It's the same basic philosophy
when applied to methods:

    MyClass = sys.class();
    MyClass.my_method = func{...};

Blue also has interesting, simple rules wrt scopes.  It's a surprisingly
small, simple language (yet in a very early stage of development.

> However, it'd be nice if all these people didn't post here whining
> about how surprising and unintuitive it is and instead just said, "ah,
> integers are immutable, got it", quietly to themselves.

Yes, when I was first learning Python, at least the book I used made it
very clear when introducing a new type to specify that type as mutable
or immutable.  It's a very core concept to Python.  If you choose to
ignore it or refuse to understand it then you are asking for trouble.

-a




From catalinfest at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 10:27:10 2009
From: catalinfest at gmail.com (catafest)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 07:27:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: About diagram and python
References: <030422b7-a4f8-4ea6-8708-4486da4cf595@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

This is the software :
http://projects.gnome.org/dia/



From magawake at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 10:27:10 2009
From: magawake at gmail.com (Mag Gam)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 10:27:10 -0400
Subject: Parse xml file
In-Reply-To: <4a969a9c$0$32665$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
References: 
	<4a969a9c$0$32665$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <1cbd6f830908300727lf4281f2wca2f5778dff181f@mail.gmail.com>

XML is a structured file. I never knew you can read it line by line
and process. iterparse()

More info on iterparse():
http://effbot.org/zone/element-iterparse.htm


On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 10:39 AM, Stefan Behnel wrote:
> loial wrote:
>> Is there a quick way to retrieve data from an xml file in python 2.4,
>> rather than read the whole file?
>
> ElementTree is available as an external package for Py2.4 (and it's in the
> stdlib xml.etree package since 2.5).
>
> It's pretty much the easiest way to get data out of XML files.
>
> If your statement "rather than read the whole file" was referring to the
> file size, note that the C implementation "cElementTree" of ElementTree is
> very memory efficient, so you might still get away with just reading the
> whole file into memory. There's also the iterparse() function which
> supports iterative parsing of an XML file and thus allows intermediate
> cleanup of used data.
>
> Stefan
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From catalinfest at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 10:49:52 2009
From: catalinfest at gmail.com (catalinfest at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 07:49:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How i follow tree folders from url
Message-ID: <27fb7927-d3cd-446f-93b5-68bd2125c2ce@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>

Hello !

 I wanna use python to follow the tree folders from one url to get
data about dirs and folders.
 Example :
 If url is "www.site.com/first/ and "
 "first" is first folder with next subfolders "01","02","03"
 The result of script should be :

 www.site.com/first/01/
 www.site.com/first/02/
 www.site.com/first/03/

What is a easy way to make this ?


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Sun Aug 30 10:51:23 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 16:51:23 +0200
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
In-Reply-To: <200908301411.15680.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	
	<200908301411.15680.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
Message-ID: 

30-08-2009 o 14:11:15 Hendrik van Rooyen  wrote:

> a nightmare of Orwellian proportions - because the language you get  
> taught first, moulds the way you think.  And I know from personal  
> experience that
> there are concepts that can be succinctly expressed in one language, that
> takes a lot of wordy handwaving to get across in another.  So diversity  
> would be less, creativity would suffer due to lack of cross pollination,
> and progress would slow or stop.

That's the point! Even in the case of programming languages we say about
'culture' and 'way of thinking' connected with each of them, though
after all they are only formal constructs.

In case of natural languages it's incomparably richer and more complex.
Each natural language has richness of culture and ages of history
-- behind that language and recorded in it in many ways.

Most probably such an unification would mean terrible impoverishment
of our (humans') culture and, as a result, terrible squandering of our
intelectual, emotional, cognitive etc. potential -- especially if such
unification were a result of intentional policy (and not of a slow and
'patient' process of synthesis).

*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From paul at boddie.org.uk  Sun Aug 30 11:09:40 2009
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 08:09:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	 
	
	
Message-ID: 

On 30 Aug, 14:49, r  wrote:
>
> It can be made better and if that means add/removing letters or
> redefining what a letter represents i am fine with that. I know first
> hand the hypocrisy of the English language. I am thinking more on the
> lines of English redux!

Elsewhere in this thread you've written...

"This is another quirk of some languages that befuddles me. What is
with the ongoing language pronunciation tutorial some languages have
turned into -- French is a good example (*puke*). Do you *really* need
those squiggly lines and cues above letters so you won't forget how to
pronounce a word. Pure ridiculousness!"

And, in fact, there have been schemes to simplify written English such
as Initial Teaching Alphabet:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Initial_Teaching_Alphabet

I imagine that this is the first time you've heard of it, though.

[...]

> We already live in a Orwellian language nightmare. Have you seen much
> change to the English language in your lifetime? i haven't.

Then you aren't paying attention. Especially in places where English
isn't the first language, there is a lot of modification of English
that is then considered an acceptable version of the language - this
is one way in which languages change.

Elsewhere, you wrote this...

"What makes you think that diversity is lost with a single language? I
say more pollination will occur and the seed will be more potent since
all parties will contribute to the same pool."

Parties are contributing to the same language already. It's just not
the only language that they contribute to.

>From what you've written, I get the impression that you don't really
know any other languages, don't have much experience with non-native
users of your own language, are oblivious to how languages change, and
are oblivious to the existence of various attempts to "improve" the
English language in the past in ways similar to those you appear to
advocate, albeit incoherently: do you want to know how to pronounce a
word from its spelling or not?

Add to that a complete lack of appreciation for the relationship
between language and culture, along with a perverted application of
evolutionary models to such things, and you come across as a lazy
cultural supremacist who regards everyone else's language as
superfluous apart from his own. If you're just having problems with
UnicodeDecodeError, at least have the honesty to say so instead of
parading something not too short of bigotry in a public forum.

Paul


From mike at mhuffman.com  Sun Aug 30 11:39:37 2009
From: mike at mhuffman.com (Mike)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 08:39:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to install setuptools...egg?
References: 
Message-ID: <6ee4ad7f-7e78-42cb-8f0b-198f32c08b6d@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

> I would like to install setuptools for Python2.6 on Windows.

1. Download setuptools-0.6c9-py2.6.egg
2. Download setuptools-0.6c9.tar.gz
3. Use 7-zip from  http://www.7-zip.org/ to extract ez_setup.py from
setuptools-0.6c9.tar.gz
4. In a directory that contains setuptools-0.6c9-py2.6.egg and
ez_setup.py run the command python ez_setup.py
5. Add C:\Python26\Scripts to your path to run easy_install

Mike


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 12:00:07 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 09:00:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	 
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 30, 10:09 am, Paul Boddie  wrote:
> On 30 Aug, 14:49, r  wrote:

Then you aren't paying attention.
...(snip: defamation of character)

Hold the phone Paul you are calling me a retarded bigot and i don't
much appreciate that. I think you are completely misinterpreting my
post. i and i ask you read it again especially this part...

[quote]
BUT STOP!, before i go any further i want to respond to what i know
will be condemnation from the sociology nuts out there. Yes
multiculturalism is great, yes art is great, but if you can't see how
the ability to communicate is severely damperd by multi-languages
then
you only *feel* with your heart but you apparently have no ability to
reason with your mind intelligently.
[/quote]

I don't really care what language we adopt as long as we choose *only*
one and then seek to perfect it to perfection. And also that this
*one* language use simplicity as it's model. English sucks, but
compared to traditional Chinese and Egyptian Hieroglyphs it's a god
send.

I think a good language would combine the best of the popular world
languages into one super language for all. The same thing Python did
for programming. But of course programming is not as evolved as
natural language so we will need multiple programming languages for
quite some time...

And just as the internet enabled worldwide instant communication, the
unification of all languages will cause a Renaissance of sorts for
coloaboration which in turn will beget innovation of enormous
proportions. The ability to communicate unhampered is in everyones
best interest.

---------------------------------------
History Lesson and the laws of Nature
---------------------------------------
Look history is great but i am more concerned with the future. Learn
the lessons of the past, move on, and live for the future. If you want
to study the hair styles of Neanderthal women be my guest. Anybody
with half a brain knows the one world government and language is
coming. Why stop evolution, it is our destiny and it will improve the
human experience.

[Warning: facts of life ahead!!]
I'll bet you weep and moan for the native Americans who where
slaughtered don't you? Yes they suffered a tragic death as have many
poor souls throughout history and yes they also contributed to human
history and experience, but their time had come and they can only
blame themselfs for it. They stopped evolving, and when you stop
evolving you get left behind. We can't win wars with bows and arrows
in the 21st century, we can't fly to the moon on horse back, And you
damn sure can smoke a peace pipe and make all the bad things
disappear.

Nature can be cruel and unjust at times, but progress is absolute and
that is all mother nature (and myself to some extent) really cares
about. Without the survival of the fittest nothing you see, feel,
touch, or experience would be. The universe would collapse upon itself
and cease to exist. The system works because it is perfect. Don't
knock that which you do not understand, or, you refuse to understand..

We are but pawns in an ever evolving higher order entity. And when
this entity no longer has a use for us, we will be history...



From sccolbert at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 12:07:58 2009
From: sccolbert at gmail.com (Chris Colbert)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 12:07:58 -0400
Subject: Permanently adding to the Python path in Ubuntu
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <7f014ea60908300907l3d21fcb6v9ed0c51180161338@mail.gmail.com>

I don't want to have to modify the path in each and every application.

There has to be a way to do this...

Personally, I don't agree with the Debian maintainers in the order
they import anyway; it should be simple for me to overshadow system
packagers. But that's another story.

P.S. my first name is Steven!

Cheers,

Chris

On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 11:51 PM, Sean DiZazzo wrote:
> On Aug 29, 5:39?pm, Chris Colbert  wrote:
>> I'm having an issue with sys.path on Ubuntu. I want some of my home
>> built packages to overshadow the system packages. Namely, I have built
>> numpy 1.3.0 from source with atlas support, and I need it to
>> overshadow the system numpy 1.2.1 which I had to drag along as a
>> dependency for other stuff. I have numpy 1.3.0 installed into
>> /usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/. The issue is that this
>> directory is added to the path after the
>> /usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/ is added, so python doesnt see my
>> version of numpy.
>>
>> I have been combating this with a line in my .bashrc file:
>>
>> export PYTHONPATH=/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages
>>
>> So when I start python from the shell, everything works fine.
>>
>> Problems show up when python is not executed from the shell, and thus
>> the path variable is never exported. This can occur when I have
>> launcher in the gnome panel or i'm executing from within wing-ide.
>>
>> Is there a way to fix this so that the local dist-packages is added to
>> sys.path before the system directory ALWAYS? I can do this by editing
>> site.py but I think it's kind of bad form to do it this way. I feel
>> there has to be a way to do this without root privileges.
>>
>> Any ideas?
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Chris
>
> I think you can modify sys.path inside your application.
>
> Maybe this will work (at the top of your script):
>
>
> import sys
> sys.path[0] = "/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages"
>
> import numpy
>
>
> PS. ?Say hi to Steven for me!
>
> ~Sean
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From lists at cheimes.de  Sun Aug 30 12:29:22 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 18:29:22 +0200
Subject: Permanently adding to the Python path in Ubuntu
In-Reply-To: <7f014ea60908291739r70f724fbw626c32265198b5ae@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7f014ea60908291739r70f724fbw626c32265198b5ae@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A9AA8E2.50201@cheimes.de>

Chris Colbert wrote:
> Is there a way to fix this so that the local dist-packages is added to
> sys.path before the system directory ALWAYS? I can do this by editing
> site.py but I think it's kind of bad form to do it this way. I feel
> there has to be a way to do this without root privileges.
> 
> Any ideas?

Have you read my blog entry about my PEP 370?
http://lipyrary.blogspot.com/2009/08/how-to-add-new-module-search-path.html

Christian


From szport at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 12:37:49 2009
From: szport at gmail.com (zaur)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 09:37:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
References: 
	 
	
	
	<0022fef9$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	 
	<0023d927$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<051da35f-efc2-4c4a-9b87-6d7db59c4529@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1345f68a-9f1f-4314-8b5d-dbd60a1b37a9@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On 30 ???, 15:49, Carl Banks  wrote:
> I think they (Derek and zaur) expect integer objects to be mutable.
>
> It's pretty common for people coming from "name is a location in
> memory" languages to have this conception of integers as an
> intermediate stage of learning Python's object system. ?Even once
> they've understood "everything is an object" and "names are references
> to objects" they won't have learned all the nuances of the system, and
> might still (not unreasonably) think integer objects could be mutable.
>
> However, it'd be nice if all these people didn't post here whining
> about how surprising and unintuitive it is and instead just said, "ah,
> integers are immutable, got it", quietly to themselves.
>
> Carl Banks

Very expressive.

I use python many years. And many years I just took python int as they
are.
I am also not think about names as reference to objects and so on.

So this isn't the case.


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Sun Aug 30 12:40:31 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 18:40:31 +0200
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
In-Reply-To: 
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <200908301840.31248.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Sunday 30 August 2009 15:37:19 r wrote:

> What makes you think that diversity is lost with a single language? 

I am quite sure of this - it goes deeper than mere regional differences - your 
first language forms the way you think -  and if we all get taught the same 
language, then on a very fundamental level we will all think in a similar 
way, and that loss will outweigh the normal regional or cultural differences 
on which you would have to rely for your diversity.

Philip Larkin has explained the effect better than I can:

"They f*ck you up, your mom and dad,
 They do not mean to, but they do.
 They fill you with the faults they had,
 And add some extra, just for you."

> I 
> say more pollination will occur and the seed will be more potent since
> all parties will contribute to the same pool. 

I think this effect, while it might be real, would be swamped by the loss of 
the real diversity.

> Sure there will be 
> idioms of different regions but that is to be expected. But at least
> then i could make international crank calls without the language
> barrier ;-)

You can make crank calls _now_ without a language barrier - heavy breathing is 
a universally understood idiom.
:-)

- Hendrik


From code at pizzashack.org  Sun Aug 30 12:40:51 2009
From: code at pizzashack.org (Derek Martin)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 11:40:51 -0500
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
In-Reply-To: <0023d927$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 
	
	
	
	<0022fef9$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<0023d927$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <20090830164050.GO20434@dragontoe.org>

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 10:34:17AM +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> > He's saying that instead of thinking the integer value of 3 itself being
> > the object, he expected Python's object model would behave as though the
> > entity m is the object, and that object exists to contain an integer
> > value.                                                                        
> What is "the entity m"?

The entity m is an object.  Objects, in computer science,  are
abstractions created by humans to make solving a large class of
problems easier to think about.  An object is a piece of data, upon
which you can perform programmatic actions, which are grouped together
with the values contained in that data.  It's an abstraction which
translates, in the physical sense, to a group of memory locations with
a reference in a symbol table.

> Ah wait, I think I get it... is m a memory location? 

No, it isn't.  It is an abstraction in the programmer's mind that sits
on top of some memory.  For that matter, the memory location is
itself an abstraction.  It is not a memory location, but a particular
series of circuits which either have current or don't.  It is simply
convenient for us to think of it as a memory location.

> That would be how Pascal and C (and presumably other languages)
> work, but not Python or Ruby or even VB (so I'm told) and similar
> languages.

Well, except that, in fact, they do work that way.  They simply
present a different abstraction to the programmer than C or other
languages.  They have to work that way, at the lowest level, because
that is how the hardware works.

> > Numbers are fundamentally different from objects.  The number 3 is a
> > symbol of the idea of the existence of three countable objects.  It can
> > not be changed 
> 
> Doesn't this contradict your claim that people expect to be able to 
> mutate numbers? That you should be able to do this?

This is where you continually fail.  There is no contradiction at all.
What I'm saying is that in my view, numbers CAN'T mutate; they are not
objects!  They are values, which are a means of describing objects.
Only the objects which hold the values can mutate.  However in Python
they don't, and can't, but they EASILY could with a different design.
You, however, seem to be completely stuck on Python's behavior with
regard to numeric objects, and fail to see past that.  Python's model
is only one abstraction, among multiple possibilities.

> You can't have it both ways -- if people think of objects as
> mutable, and think of numbers as not-objects and unchanging, then
> why oh why would they find Python's numeric behaviour to be
> unintuitive?

Because in Python, they ARE objects, which they think should be
mutable, but in Python when they try to change the *value* of the
object, they don't get the same object with a different value; they
get a completely different object.  This is counter to their
experience.  If you don't like the Buick example, then use algebra.
We've been down this road before, so I'm probably wasting my time...
In algebra, you don't assign a name to a value, you assign a value to
a variable.  You can, in a different problem, assign a different value
to that variable, but the variable didn't change; only its value did.
In Python, it's the opposite.

> What I think is that some people, such as you and Zaur, have *learned* 
> from C-like languages that numbers are mutable not-objects, and you've 
> learned it so well that you've forgotten that you ever needed to learn 
> it. 

No, this is precisely why I provided the real-world examples -- to
illustrate to you that there was no need to learn it in computer
science, because the concept applies in the real world quite
intuitively in every-day situations.  I think rather it is YOU who
have learned the concept in Python, and since then fail to imagine any
other possible interpretation of an object, and somehow have
completely forgotten the examples you encountered before Python, from
algebra and from the real world.

> Human beings are excellent at reifying abstract things into (imaginary) 
> objects. 

I don't know what the word "reifying" means, but irrelevant.  Such
things are abstract, and in fact not objects.

> No, the length of a car is an object which *is* a length, it doesn't 
> *have* a length.

It is not an object.  It is an abstract idea used as a description of
an object.

> None of this explains why you would expect to be able to mutate the
> value three and turn it into four.

Again, you fail.  I *DO NOT* expect that.  I expect to be able to
mutate the object m, changing its value from 3 to 4.

> I think you have confused yourself. 

No Steven, on this topic, it is only you who have been confused,
perpetually.  Although, it could be said that Python's idea of what an
object is also is itself confused...  Python (or at least the docs)
actually refrains from formally defining an object.  The docs only say
that an object has an identity, a name, and a value.  Well, OK... so 3
is an object.  You can bind a name to it... except that's not exactly
correct.  You can bind many names to it, and every time you write
something like:

m = 3

You are binding another name to the same object.  That's intuitive?
So you say.  But what is the value of 3?  Is it 3?  How can the value
of an object be the object itself?  If that were true, then the value
of the object is an object, which has a value... you have an infinite
recursion.  It's a paradox.  How could you get any more unintuitive
than that?!

In practice it's not a paradox, because the values inside numeric
objects are *not* objects.  They're numerical constants, as used by
the hardware (excepting that they are just an abstraction on top of
current, as noted before).  Python's model breaks down at that point;
it is not so with most other types of objects... their values remain
objects.  And *that* is inconsistent.  The same is true of character
data as for numeric data.  And that, I believe, is why Java treats
these as atomic data types, rather than as objects.  Because they are,
in fact.  They are types of data that the hardware knows how to deal
with, directly.  Everything else is not.

-- 
Derek D. Martin
http://www.pizzashack.org/
GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D

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From nobody at nowhere.com  Sun Aug 30 12:42:40 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 17:42:40 +0100
Subject: break unichr instead of fix ord?
References: <2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4A95A4D1.9060008@v.loewis.de>
	
	<4A961EE1.9010103@v.loewis.de>
	<65e6c430-9dc4-4a90-8448-f8f587d19750@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4a979172$0$11759$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 06:54:21 +0200, Dieter Maurer wrote:

>> What you propose would break the property "unichr(i) always returns
>> a string of length one, if it returns anything at all".
> 
> But getting a "ValueError" in some builds (and not in others)
> is rather worse than getting unicode strings of different length....

Not necessarily. If the code assumes that unichr() always returns a
single-character string, it will silently produce bogus results when
unichr() returns a pair of surrogates. An exception is usually preferable
to silently producing bad data.

If unichr() returns a surrogate pair, what is e.g. unichr(i).isalpha()
supposed to do?

Using surrogates is fine in an external representation (UTF-16), but it
doesn't make sense as an internal representation.

Think: why do people use wchar_t[] rather than a char[] encoded in UTF-8?
Because a wchar_t[] allows you to index *characters*, which you can't do
with a multi-byte encoding. You can't do it with a multi-*word* encoding
either.

UCS-2 and UTF-16 are superficially so similar that people forget that
they're completely different beasts. UCS-2 is fixed-length, UTF-16 is
variable-length. This makes UTF-16 semantically much closer to UTF-8 than
to UCS-2 or UCS-4.

If your wchar_t is 16 bits, the only sane solution is to forego support
for characters outside of the BMP.

The alternative is to process wide strings in exactly the same way that
you process narrow (mbcs) strings; e.g. extracting character N requires
iterating over the string from the beginning until you have counted N-1
characters. This provides no benefit over using narrow strings except for
a slight performance gain from halving the number of iterations. You still
end up with indexing being O(n) rather than O(1).



From vbabiy86 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 12:56:07 2009
From: vbabiy86 at gmail.com (Vitaly Babiy)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 12:56:07 -0400
Subject: Thread Pool
Message-ID: <8abf49ac0908300956x30d41685xfa1a383adb466aea@mail.gmail.com>

Hey,
Any one know of a good thread pool library. I have tried a few but they
don't seem to clean up after them selfs well.

Thanks,
Vitaly Babiy
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From rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk  Sun Aug 30 12:57:23 2009
From: rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk (Rhodri James)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 17:57:23 +0100
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
In-Reply-To: <1345f68a-9f1f-4314-8b5d-dbd60a1b37a9@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	
	
	<0022fef9$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<0023d927$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<051da35f-efc2-4c4a-9b87-6d7db59c4529@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<1345f68a-9f1f-4314-8b5d-dbd60a1b37a9@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 17:37:49 +0100, zaur  wrote:

> On 30 ???, 15:49, Carl Banks  wrote:
>> I think they (Derek and zaur) expect integer objects to be mutable.
>>
>> It's pretty common for people coming from "name is a location in
>> memory" languages to have this conception of integers as an
>> intermediate stage of learning Python's object system. ?Even once
>> they've understood "everything is an object" and "names are references
>> to objects" they won't have learned all the nuances of the system, and
>> might still (not unreasonably) think integer objects could be mutable.
>>
>> However, it'd be nice if all these people didn't post here whining
>> about how surprising and unintuitive it is and instead just said, "ah,
>> integers are immutable, got it", quietly to themselves.
>>
>> Carl Banks
>
> Very expressive.
>
> I use python many years. And many years I just took python int as they
> are.
> I am also not think about names as reference to objects and so on.

Then you are doomed to surprises such as this.

-- 
Rhodri James *-* Wildebeest Herder to the Masses


From sccolbert at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 13:03:19 2009
From: sccolbert at gmail.com (Chris Colbert)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 13:03:19 -0400
Subject: Permanently adding to the Python path in Ubuntu
In-Reply-To: <4A9AA8E2.50201@cheimes.de>
References: <7f014ea60908291739r70f724fbw626c32265198b5ae@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A9AA8E2.50201@cheimes.de>
Message-ID: <7f014ea60908301003q5f28776q88f5603a5f885358@mail.gmail.com>

Great! That was the solution I was looking for. Thanks!

Chris

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 12:29 PM, Christian Heimes wrote:
> Chris Colbert wrote:
>> Is there a way to fix this so that the local dist-packages is added to
>> sys.path before the system directory ALWAYS? I can do this by editing
>> site.py but I think it's kind of bad form to do it this way. I feel
>> there has to be a way to do this without root privileges.
>>
>> Any ideas?
>
> Have you read my blog entry about my PEP 370?
> http://lipyrary.blogspot.com/2009/08/how-to-add-new-module-search-path.html
>
> Christian
>


From code at pizzashack.org  Sun Aug 30 13:04:45 2009
From: code at pizzashack.org (Derek Martin)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 12:04:45 -0500
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
In-Reply-To: <725bcd4c-01ed-489d-baa4-288a5c492831@m20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	
	
	<0022fef9$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<725bcd4c-01ed-489d-baa4-288a5c492831@m20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20090830170445.GP20434@dragontoe.org>

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 03:42:06AM -0700, Paul McGuire wrote:
> Python binds values to names. Always. 

No, actually, it doesn't.  It binds *objects* to names.  This
distinction is subtle, but important, as it is the crux of why this is
confusing to people.  If Python is to say that objects have values,
then the object can not *be* the value that it has, because that is a
paradoxical self-reference.  It's an object, not a value.

> Is it any odder that 3 is an object than that the string literal
> "Hello, World!" is an object?  

Yes.  Because 3 is a fundamental bit of data that the hardware knows
how to deal with, requiring no higher level abstractions for the
programmer to use it (though certainly, a programming language can
provide them, if it is convenient).  "Hello, World!" is not.  They are
fundamentally different in that way.

> For a Python long-timer like Mr. D'Aprano, I don't think he even
> consciously thinks about this kind of thing any more; his intuition
> has aligned with the Python stars, so he extrapolates from the OP's
> suggestion to the resulting aberrant behavior, as he posted it.

I'm sure that's the case.  But it's been explained to him before, and
yet he still can't seem to comprehend that not everyone immediately
gets this behavior, and that this is not without good reason.

So, since it *has* been explained to him before, it's somewhat
astonishing that he would reply to zaur's post, saying that the
behavior zaur described would necessarily lead to the insane behavior
that Steven described.  When he makes such statements, it's tantamount
to calling the OP an idiot.  I find that offensive, especially
considering that Steven's post displayed an overwhelming lack of
understanding of what the OP was trying to say.

> You can dispute and rail at this core language concept if you like,
> but I think the more entrenched you become in the position that "'3 is
> an object' is bizarre", the less enjoyable your Python work will be.

While I did genuinely find the behavior bizarre when I encountered it,
and honestly still do, I learned it quickly and moved past it.  I'm
not suggesting that it be changed, and I don't feel particularly
strongly that it even should change.  It's not so much the language
I'm railing against, but the humans...

-- 
Derek D. Martin
http://www.pizzashack.org/
GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D

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From code at pizzashack.org  Sun Aug 30 13:27:57 2009
From: code at pizzashack.org (Derek Martin)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 12:27:57 -0500
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
In-Reply-To: <71e92f9c-4094-409d-95d7-9836737d4dc2@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	
	
	<0022fef9$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<725bcd4c-01ed-489d-baa4-288a5c492831@m20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	<71e92f9c-4094-409d-95d7-9836737d4dc2@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20090830172757.GQ20434@dragontoe.org>

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 03:52:36AM -0700, Paul McGuire wrote:
> > It is surprising how many times we
> > think things are "intuitive" when we really mean they are "familiar".
>
> Of course, just as I was typing my response, Steve D'Aprano beat me to
> the punch.

Intuition means "The power or faculty of attaining to direct knowledge
or cognition without evident rational thought and inference."  Very
naturally, things which behave in a familiar manner are intuitive.
Familiar and intuitive are very closely tied.  Correspondingly, when
things look like something familiar, but behave differently, they are
naturally unintuitive.

-- 
Derek D. Martin
http://www.pizzashack.org/
GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D

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From nobody at nowhere.com  Sun Aug 30 13:30:48 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 18:30:48 +0100
Subject: (Simple?) Unicode Question
References: <332972a20908270939m57be4e51tc5785b880ec642b3@mail.gmail.com>
	
	
	<002269cb$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<0023693f$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 02:36:49 +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

>>> So long as your terminal has a sensible encoding, and you have a good
>>> quality font, you should be able to print any string you can create.
>> 
>> UTF-8 isn't a particularly sensible encoding for terminals.
> 
> Did I mention UTF-8?
> 
> Out of curiosity, why do you say that UTF-8 isn't sensible for terminals?

I don't think I've ever seen a terminal (whether an emulator running on a
PC or a hardware terminal) which supports anything like the entire Unicode
repertoire, along with right-to-left writing, complex scripts, etc. Even
support for double-width characters is uncommon.

If your terminal can't handle anything outside of ISO-8859-1, there isn't
any advantage to using UTF-8, and some disadvantages; e.g. a typical Unix
tty driver will delete the last *byte* from the input buffer when you
press backspace (Linux 2.6.* has the IUTF8 flag, but this is non-standard).

Historically, terminal I/O has tended to revolve around unibyte encodings,
with everything except the endpoints being encoding-agnostic. Anything
which falls outside of that is a dog's breakfast; it's no coincidence
that the word for "messed-up text" (arising from an encoding mismatch)
was borrowed from Japanese (mojibake).

Life is simpler if you can use a unibyte encoding. Apart from anything
else, the failure modes tend to be harmless. E.g. you get the wrong glyph
rather than two glyphs where you expected one. On a 7-bit channel, you get
the wrong printable character rather than a control character (this is why
ISO-8859-* reserves \x80-\x9F as control codes rather than using them as
printable characters).

>> And "Unicode font" is an oxymoron. You can merge a whole bunch of fonts
>> together and stuff them into a TTF file; that doesn't make them "a
>> font", though.
> 
> I never mentioned "Unicode font" either. In any case, there's no reason 
> why a skillful designer can't make a single font which covers the entire 
> Unicode range in a consistent style.

Consistency between unrelated scripts is neither realistic nor
desirable.

E.g. Latin fonts tend to use uniform stroke widths unless they're
specifically designed to look like handwriting, whereas Han fonts tend to
prefer variable-width strokes which reflect the direction.

>> The main advantage of using Unicode internally is that you can associate
>> encodings with the specific points where data needs to be converted
>> to/from bytes, rather than having to carry the encoding details around
>> the program.
> 
> Surely the main advantage of Unicode is that it gives you a full and 
> consistent range of characters not limited to the 128 characters provided 
> by ASCII?

Nothing stops you from using other encodings, or from using multiple
encodings. But using multiple encodings means keeping track of the
encodings. This isn't impossible, and it may produce better results (e.g.
no information loss from Han unification), but it can be a lot more work.



From code at pizzashack.org  Sun Aug 30 13:36:17 2009
From: code at pizzashack.org (Derek Martin)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 12:36:17 -0500
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
In-Reply-To: <0221274c-994d-4130-93bb-a5fb528e7b83@x6g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	
	
	<0022fef9$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<0221274c-994d-4130-93bb-a5fb528e7b83@x6g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20090830173617.GR20434@dragontoe.org>

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 04:26:54AM -0700, Carl Banks wrote:
> On Aug 30, 12:33?am, Derek Martin  wrote:
> [snip rant]

I was not ranting.  I was explaining a perspective.

> > THAT is why Python's behavior with regard to numerical objects is
> > not intuitive, and frankly bizzare to me, and I dare say to others who
> > find it so.
> >
> > Yes, that's right. ?BIZZARE.
> 
> You mean it's different from how you first learned it.

I mean exactly that I find it "strikingly out of the ordinary; odd,
extravagant, or eccentric in style or mode" as Webster's defines the
word.  Whether it is so because it is different from how I first
learned it, or for some other reason, it is so nonetheless.  I have
elsewhere gone into great detail about why I find it so.  If you need
it to be simple, then feel free to simplify it.

-- 
Derek D. Martin
http://www.pizzashack.org/
GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D

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From brenNOSPAMbarn at NObrenSPAMbarn.net  Sun Aug 30 13:43:42 2009
From: brenNOSPAMbarn at NObrenSPAMbarn.net (OKB (not okblacke))
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 17:43:42 GMT
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
References: 
	
	
	
	<0022fef9$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<725bcd4c-01ed-489d-baa4-288a5c492831@m20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Derek Martin wrote:

> If Python is to say that objects have values,
> then the object can not *be* the value that it has, because that is a
> paradoxical self-reference.  It's an object, not a value.

    	But does it say that objects have values?  I don't see where you 
get this idea.  Consider this code:

class A(object):
    	pass
 	
class B(object):
    	x = 0

a = A()
b = B()
b2 = B()
b2.x = a

    	What is the "value" of the object now bound to the name "a"?  What 
about the "value" of the object bound to b, or b2?

    	I would say that in Python, objects do not have values.  Objects 
are values.

-- 
--OKB (not okblacke)
Brendan Barnwell
"Do not follow where the path may lead.  Go, instead, where there is
no path, and leave a trail."
	--author unknown


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 13:48:24 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 10:48:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: IDE for python similar to visual basic
References: <2a17396c-4d6d-4cb0-a314-208054a2f774@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6cb48259-3e42-4efe-b856-7b0f1a141024@o21g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 28, 5:19?pm, qwe rty  wrote:
> i have been searching for am IDE for python that is similar to Visual
> Basic but had no luck.shall you help me please?

Hello qwe rty,

I remember my first days with GUI programming and thinking to myself;
how on earth can i write GUI code without a MS style GUI builder? Not
to long after that i was coding up some pretty spectacular GUI's from
nothing more than source code and loving it.

[Warning: the following is only opinion!]
I think a point and click GUI builder (although some may disagree) is
actually detrimental to your programming skills. The ability to
visualize the GUI only from the source code as you read it, is as
important to a programmer as site reading sheet music is to a
musician. And I like to program with the training wheels off.


From rozzin at geekspace.com  Sun Aug 30 13:54:17 2009
From: rozzin at geekspace.com (Joshua Judson Rosen)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 13:54:17 -0400
Subject: Non-deterministic computing (was: What python can NOT do?)
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	
	<00223e3f$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <87ab1h192u.fsf_-_@slice.rozzin.com>

Steven D'Aprano  writes:
>
> On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 05:37:34 +0200, Tomasz Rola wrote:
> 
> > My private list of things that when implemented in Python would be
> > ugly to the point of calling it difficult:
> > 
> > 1. AMB operator - my very favourite. In one sentence, either language
> > allows one to do it easily or one would not want to do it (in an ugly
> > way).
> > 
> > http://www.randomhacks.net/articles/2005/10/11/amb-operator
> 
> 
> Fascinating, but I don't exactly see how that's actually *useful*. It 
> strikes me of combining all the benefits of COME FROM with the potential 
> performance of Bogosort, but maybe I'm being harsh. 

There's a chapter on this (non-deterministic computing in general,
and `amb' in particular) in Abelson's & Sussman's book,
`Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs':

    http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book-Z-H-28.html#%_sec_4.3

It's an interesting read (the chapter, as well as the rest of the book).

> On the other hand, it sounds rather like Prolog-like declarative 
> programming. I fear that, like Prolog, it risks massive performance 
> degradation if you don't apply the constraints in the right order.

One of the classic arguments in the other direction is that
imperative programming (as is common in Python ;)) risks
massive *incorrect results* if you don't apply the side-effects
in the right order :)

-- 
Don't be afraid to ask (Lf.((Lx.xx) (Lr.f(rr)))).


From nobody at nowhere.com  Sun Aug 30 13:54:22 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 18:54:22 +0100
Subject: What python can NOT do?
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4a998465$0$1637$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 23:07:17 +0000, exarkun wrote:

>>>    Personally, I consider Python to be a good language held back by
>>>too-close ties to a naive interpreter implementation and the lack
>>>of a formal standard for the language.
>>
>>Name one language under active development that has not been harmed by a
>>formal standard.  (I think C doesn't count -- there was relatively little
>>development of C after the standards process started.)
> 
> I think you must mean "harmed by a formal standard more than it has been 
> helped", since that's clearly the interesting thing.
> 
> And it's a pretty difficult question to answer.  How do you quantify the 
> harm done to a language by a standarization process?  How do you 
> quantify the help?  These are extremely difficult things to measure 
> objectively.

For a start, you have to decide how to weight the different groups of
users.

For an application which is designed for end users and will be in a
permanent state of flux, dealing with revisions to the language or its
standard libraries are likely to be a small part of the ongoing
development effort.

For libraries or middleware which need to maintain a stable interface, or
for code which needs extensive testing, documentation, audits, etc, even a
minor update can incur significant costs.

Users in the latter group will prefer languages with a stable and rigorous
specification, and will tend to view any flexibility granted to the
language implementors as an inconvenience.



From rt8396 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 14:01:21 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 11:01:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
Message-ID: <8252056f-399d-4da5-a1da-d09468eaf149@l35g2000vba.googlegroups.com>

Would someone please point me to one example where this sociology or
anthropology crap has ever improved our day to day lives or moved use
into the future with great innovation? A life spend studying this
mumbo-jumbo is a complete waste of time when many other far more
important and *real* problems need solving!

To me this is nothing more than educated people going antiquing on a
Saturday afternoon! All they are going to find is more useless,
overpriced junk that clogs up the closets of society!


From nobody at nowhere.com  Sun Aug 30 14:08:34 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 19:08:34 +0100
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	<4a9a0988$0$1669$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: 

On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 22:14:55 -0700, John Nagle wrote:

>     (I wish the HTML standards people would do the same.  HTML 5
> should have been ASCII only (with the "&" escapes if desired)
> or Unicode.  No "Latin-1", no upper code pages, no JIS, etc.)

IOW, you want the HTML standards to continue to be meaningless documents,
and "HTML" to continue to mean "what browsers support".

Because that would be the likely consequence of such a stance. Japanese
websites will continue to use Shift-JIS, Japanese cellphones (or
Scandanavian cellphones aimed at the Japanese market, for that matter)
will continue to render websites which use Shift-JIS, and HTML 5 will be
just as much a pure academic exercise as all of the other HTML standards.



From ivanko.rus at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 14:13:12 2009
From: ivanko.rus at gmail.com (ivanko.rus at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 18:13:12 +0000
Subject: a popen question. Please help
In-Reply-To: <473423.84282.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000e0cd20f80cbfb7e04725fde8e@google.com>

First, I think you should use subprocess.Popen (it's recommended by  
PEP-324) instead of os.popen. For example:

p = subprocess.Popen(["top"], stdout = PIPE)
p.stdout.readlines()

And to write to stdin (in your case "q") you can use p.stdin.write("q"), or  
terminate the process with p.terminate(), or just specify the -n option  
(the number of iterations) to the value you desire. It's done in that way:  
subprocess.Popen(["top","-n 1"], stdout=PIPE)
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From nobody at nowhere.com  Sun Aug 30 14:13:38 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 19:13:38 +0100
Subject: Why does this group have so much spam?
References: <7294bf8b-9819-4b6d-92b2-afc1c8042a06@x6g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<7l1wem586nhf.c8spq9wpqg99.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 11:18:35 +0200, David wrote:

>> So much of it could be removed even by simple keyword filtering.
> 
> I think there is only one final solution to the spam pestilence: a tiny tax
> on email and posts.
> Spammers send hundreds of thousands of emails/posts a day and a tax of
> 0.0001$ each does not harm normal users but discurages spammers.

Apart from the impossibility of implementing such a tax, it isn't going to
discourage spammers when the tax will be paid by the owner of the
compromised PC from which they're sending their spam.

If you want to avoid usenet spam and don't want to filter it yourself,
find a provider with more aggressive spam filter. Ultimately, it's up to
the person running the news server as to which posts they will or will not
accept.



From code at pizzashack.org  Sun Aug 30 14:21:09 2009
From: code at pizzashack.org (Derek Martin)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 13:21:09 -0500
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
	
	<0022fef9$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<725bcd4c-01ed-489d-baa4-288a5c492831@m20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <20090830182109.GS20434@dragontoe.org>

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 05:43:42PM +0000, OKB (not okblacke) wrote:
> Derek Martin wrote:
> 
> > If Python is to say that objects have values,
> > then the object can not *be* the value that it has, because that is a
> > paradoxical self-reference.  It's an object, not a value.
> 
>     	But does it say that objects have values?  I don't see where you 
> get this idea.  

Yes, it does say that.  Read the docs. :)

http://docs.python.org/reference/datamodel.html

(paragraph 2)


> class A(object):
>     	pass

> a = A()
>
>     	What is the "value" of the object now bound to the name "a"

In Python, the value of objects depends on the context in which it is
evaluated.  But when you do that, you're not getting a value that is
equivalent to object, but of some property of the object.  The object
has no intrinsic value until it is evaluated.  In that sense, and as
used by the python docs, I would say that the value of the object a is
"true" -- you can use it in boolean expressions, and it will evaluate
as such.  

>       I would say that in Python, objects do not have values.
> Objects are values.

You can say that, but if you do you're using some definition of
"value" that's only applicable in Python and programming languages
which behave the same way.  It would be more correct to say that an
object is a collection of arbitrary data, which has a type and an
identity, and that the data in that collection has a value that
evaluates in context.  An object is an abstract collection of data,
and abstractions have no value.  You can not measure them in any
meaningful way.  The data contained in the collection does, however,
have a value.  When you reference an object in an expression, what you
get is not the value of the object, but the value of some peice of
data about, or contained in, that object.

It is this property of objects, that the value evaluated depends on
the context, that I think demonstrates that an object is *not* a
value.  Values never change, as we've said in this thread: 3 is always
3.  'a' is always 'a'.  But an object x can evaluate to many different
values, depending on how it is used.  The definition of the object
would need to allow for it to do so, but Python allows that, and even
encourages it.

-- 
Derek D. Martin
http://www.pizzashack.org/
GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D

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From rolfpw at online.de  Sun Aug 30 14:33:41 2009
From: rolfpw at online.de (Rolf)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 20:33:41 +0200
Subject: How to install setuptools...egg?
In-Reply-To: <6ee4ad7f-7e78-42cb-8f0b-198f32c08b6d@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<6ee4ad7f-7e78-42cb-8f0b-198f32c08b6d@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Mike schrieb:
>> I would like to install setuptools for Python2.6 on Windows.
> 
> 1. Download setuptools-0.6c9-py2.6.egg
> 2. Download setuptools-0.6c9.tar.gz
> 3. Use 7-zip from  http://www.7-zip.org/ to extract ez_setup.py from
> setuptools-0.6c9.tar.gz
> 4. In a directory that contains setuptools-0.6c9-py2.6.egg and
> ez_setup.py run the command python ez_setup.py
> 5. Add C:\Python26\Scripts to your path to run easy_install
> 
> Mike
Thank you very much. Your recipe did the job.

Rolf


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Aug 30 14:37:38 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 30 Aug 2009 18:37:38 GMT
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
References: 
	
	
	
	<0022fef9$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<725bcd4c-01ed-489d-baa4-288a5c492831@m20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <00244a72$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 12:04:45 -0500, Derek Martin wrote:

> On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 03:42:06AM -0700, Paul McGuire wrote:
>> Python binds values to names. Always.
> 
> No, actually, it doesn't.  It binds *objects* to names.  This
> distinction is subtle, but important, as it is the crux of why this is
> confusing to people.  If Python is to say that objects have values, then
> the object can not *be* the value that it has, because that is a
> paradoxical self-reference.  It's an object, not a value.

You're thinking about this too hard and tying yourself in knots trying to 
philosophise about it. In context of OO programming, the distinction 
between objects and values is fuzzy, and it depends on the context: e.g. 
if I have this:

class MyInt(int):
    pass

five = MyInt(5)
five.thingy = 23

is thingy part of the value of the object or not?

For most objects, at least for built-ins, the object *is* the value. (For 
custom classes you create yourself, you are free to do anything you 
like.) There's no need to try to distinguish between the object 3 and the 
value of the object 3: you're looking for a distinction that simply 
doesn't matter.


>> Is it any odder that 3 is an object than that the string literal
>> "Hello, World!" is an object?
> 
> Yes.  Because 3 is a fundamental bit of data that the hardware knows how
> to deal with, requiring no higher level abstractions for the programmer
> to use it (though certainly, a programming language can provide them, if
> it is convenient).  "Hello, World!" is not.  They are fundamentally
> different in that way.

Nonsense on two levels.

Firstly, in Python, *both* 3 and "Hello World" are complex objects, and 
neither are even close to the fundamental bits of data that the hardware 
can deal with.

Secondly, in low level languages, both are nothing but a sequence of 
bytes, and hardware knows how to deal with bytes regardless of whether 
they are interpreted by the human reader as 3 or "Hello World". The 
compiler might stop you from adding 2371 to "Hell" or "o Wor" but the 
hardware would be perfectly happy to do so if asked.



>> For a Python long-timer like Mr. D'Aprano, I don't think he even
>> consciously thinks about this kind of thing any more; his intuition has
>> aligned with the Python stars, so he extrapolates from the OP's
>> suggestion to the resulting aberrant behavior, as he posted it.
> 
> I'm sure that's the case.  But it's been explained to him before, and
> yet he still can't seem to comprehend that not everyone immediately gets
> this behavior, and that this is not without good reason.

Oh, it's obvious that not everybody gets this behaviour. I understand 
full well that it's different to some other languages, but not all, and 
so some people have their expectations violated.


> So, since it *has* been explained to him before, it's somewhat
> astonishing that he would reply to zaur's post, saying that the behavior
> zaur described would necessarily lead to the insane behavior that Steven
> described.  When he makes such statements, it's tantamount to calling
> the OP an idiot.

Given Python's programming model and implementation, the behaviour asked 
for *would* lead to the crazy behaviour I described.

(For the record, some early implementations of Fortran allowed the user 
to redefine literals like that, and I'm told that Lisp will do so too.)

So what Zaur presumably saw as a little tiny difference is in fact the 
tip of the iceberg of a fairly major difference. I don't know how smart 
he is, but I'd be willing to bet he hadn't thought through the full 
consequences of the behaviour he'd prefer, given Python's execution 
model. You could make a language that behaved as he wants, and I wouldn't 
be surprised if Java was it, but whatever it is, it isn't Python.


> I find that offensive, 

It's moments like this that I am reminded of a quote from Stephen Fry:

"You're offended? So f***ing what?"

Taking offense at an intellectual disagreement over the consequences of 
changes to a programming model is a good sign that you've got no rational 
argument to make and so have to resort to (real or pretend) outrage to 
win points.


> especially considering that
> Steven's post displayed an overwhelming lack of understanding of what
> the OP was trying to say.

I'm pretty sure I do understand what the OP was trying to say. He 
actually managed to communicate it very well. I think he expects to be 
able to do this:

>>> n = 1
>>> id(n)
123456
>>> n += 1
>>> assert n == 2
>>> id(n)
123456

Do you disagree? What do *you* think he wants?



-- 
Steven


From paul at boddie.org.uk  Sun Aug 30 15:05:54 2009
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 12:05:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	 
	
	
	 
	
Message-ID: <1ab2c088-bead-43fa-bf4a-3e7f4d84e871@g1g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>

On 30 Aug, 18:00, r  wrote:
>
> Hold the phone Paul you are calling me a retarded bigot and i don't
> much appreciate that. I think you are completely misinterpreting my
> post. i and i ask you read it again especially this part...

I didn't call you a "retarded bigot", and yet I did read your post.

[...]

> I don't really care what language we adopt as long as we choose *only*
> one and then seek to perfect it to perfection. And also that this
> *one* language use simplicity as it's model. English sucks, but
> compared to traditional Chinese and Egyptian Hieroglyphs it's a god
> send.

You don't care which language it is as long as it's the one you use.
That's what this sounds like, layered on top of what you've already
written (and what you write below). How about Esperanto? You have
heard of Esperanto, right? Or take your pick from the other artificial
languages - they're relatively popular in some places where English
isn't the natural first-choice foreign language.

[...]

> Look history is great but i am more concerned with the future. Learn
> the lessons of the past, move on, and live for the future. If you want
> to study the hair styles of Neanderthal women be my guest. Anybody
> with half a brain knows the one world government and language is
> coming. Why stop evolution, it is our destiny and it will improve the
> human experience.

Again, we witness a distortion of scientific concepts through the use
of political themes.

> [Warning: facts of life ahead!!]

Even Xah Lee's harshest critics must acknowledge that Xah delivers a
less offensive, more entertaining rant than this. At least Xah has
mastered the art of the expletive.

> I'll bet you weep and moan for the native Americans who where
> slaughtered don't you? Yes they suffered a tragic death as have many
> poor souls throughout history and yes they also contributed to human
> history and experience, but their time had come and they can only
> blame themselfs for it.

You're on a slippery slope when you claim that people deserve whatever
mistreatment or misfortune comes their way through mere circumstances
of birth. I suggest you step back and actually read your messages
again and consider how others might interpret them.

I also suggest that, unless you really wish to discuss deficiencies of
Unicode with respect to Python, you don't use this list/group as a
discussion forum for your ill-informed notions of "progress", but
instead take them to a more appropriate forum where I'm sure people
will be happy to scrutinise your ideas at their leisure.

Paul


From sebas0 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 15:33:15 2009
From: sebas0 at gmail.com (Sebastian)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 16:33:15 -0300
Subject: Popen question (redundant processes)
Message-ID: 

Hello World!
This is my first post on the list and I'm hoping it is the right forum and
not OT, I've searched
a bit on this, but, none-the-wiser!

My question is on the Popen method, here is my snippet:

p1 = Popen(["cat", "georgi_ddr7_allmag_kcor_in_test.dat"], stdout=PIPE )
> p2 = Popen(["fit_coeffs"], stdin=p1.stdout, stdout=PIPE)
> p3 = Popen(["reconstruct_maggies"], stdin=p2.stdout,stdout=PIPE)
> output_maggies_z=p3.communicate()[0]
>
> p1 = Popen(["cat", "georgi_ddr7_allmag_kcor_in_test.dat"], stdout=PIPE )
> p2 = Popen(["fit_coeffs"], stdin=p1.stdout, stdout=PIPE)
> p4 = Popen(["reconstruct_maggies", "--band-shift", "0.1", "--redshift",
> "0."], stdin=p2.stdout,stdout=PIPE)
> output_maggies_z0=p4.communicate()[0]
>
>
That is, p1 and p2 are the same, but p3 and p4 which they are passed to, are
different.
Is there a way to pass p1 and p2 to p3 AND p4 simultaneously, so as to not
need to
run p1 and p2 twice, as above?
What arguments would I need to achieve this?

NOTE: "georgi_ddr7_allmag_kcor_in_test.dat" is a very large file (~1E6
records)

regards,
- Sebastian
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From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Aug 30 15:33:29 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 30 Aug 2009 12:33:29 -0700
Subject: Overriding iadd for dictionary like objects
References: 
	<87ws4n5gfi.fsf@slice.rozzin.com> 
Message-ID: 

In article ,
RunThePun   wrote:
>
>I made a DictMixin where the keys are filenames and the values are the
>file contents. It was very simple and easy to do thanks to DictMixin.
>
>For example this code writes "abc" in a file named "temp.txt" and
>prints the contents of the file named "swallow", these files are
>looked up/created/deleted in the directory "spam":
>>>> d =3D FilesDict('spam')
>>>> d['temp.txt'] =3D 'abc'
>>>> print(d['swallow'])
>
>My problem arose when I wanted to append a string to a file which
>using open(..., 'ab') would have been miles more efficient because I
>wouldn't have to read the entire file (__getitem__) and then write the
>entire file back (__setitem__). The files are expected to be as big as
>600 KB which will be appended 30 bytes at a time about 3 times a
>second. Performance-wise the system would probably work without open
>(..., 'ab') but it would be a real thrashing so the current solution
>uses a method "AddTo" as Robert suggested, sacrificing the neat
>getitem/setitem syntax.

You can do mostly what you want, I think, by having __setitem__()
convert string values into FileProxy() objects that have an appropriate
__iadd__() method.  That brings a whole new set of problems, of course.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I support family values -- Addams family values" --www.nancybuttons.com


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 15:43:44 2009
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 12:43:44 -0700
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
In-Reply-To: 
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	<6Djmm.14757$ze1.10295@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	
Message-ID: <7a9c25c20908301243r71fa3376uac02a0000e2ac27e@mail.gmail.com>

>
> So why the heck are we supporting such capitalistic implementations as
> Unicode. Sure we must support a winders installer but Unicode, dump
> it! We don't support a Python group in Chinese or French, so why this?
> Makes no sense to me really. Let M$ deal with it.
>

Who, exactly, do you think "we" are?

You're off talking about The Python Community again, aren't you. I thought
we talked about that.

"We" are a group of diverse people from diverse backgrounds-- national and
linguistic-- and quite a few who either run our own business or are
connected to businesses. A very huge chunk of folk around here quite like
capitalistic implementations. Python's very business and closed-source
friendly, remember?

This "crusade change the world" crap is so strikingly stupid of a troll
approach for this group, I'm startled that it's worked. But it has, so kudos
to you! Can't you go try to get someone fired up who has some philosophical
basis in the group's existence?

Python's not the FSF*. It's not software-for-freedom to change the world.
It's software to get things done, and keep things done down the road.

... sigh. I fed the troll.

--S

P.S. *And I mean no insult by this towards the FSFL. It's a
political/philosophical for-the-good-of-humanity organization, is all. Good
for them.
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From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 15:55:22 2009
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 12:55:22 -0700
Subject: Thread Pool
In-Reply-To: <8abf49ac0908300956x30d41685xfa1a383adb466aea@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8abf49ac0908300956x30d41685xfa1a383adb466aea@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c20908301255p13112f64q90a94a9e99fe125@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 9:56 AM, Vitaly Babiy  wrote:

> Hey,
> Any one know of a good thread pool library. I have tried a few but they
> don't seem to clean up after them selfs well.
>
> Thanks,
> Vitaly Babiy
>
>
As obscene as it seems, I actually use twisted's :)

I mean, it's obscene not because it's badly done or anything, but because to
use twisted to do threads sounds terribly wrong. But I have twisted
installed anyway for a different purpose, so figured why not. It seems to
work fine / scale well / clean up fine (assuming my code is correct).

--S
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From bouncyinc at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 16:06:22 2009
From: bouncyinc at gmail.com (John Haggerty)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 14:06:22 -0600
Subject: Thread Pool
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c20908301255p13112f64q90a94a9e99fe125@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8abf49ac0908300956x30d41685xfa1a383adb466aea@mail.gmail.com>
	<7a9c25c20908301255p13112f64q90a94a9e99fe125@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

twisted? I don't get it

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 1:55 PM, Stephen Hansen wrote:

>
> On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 9:56 AM, Vitaly Babiy  wrote:
>
>> Hey,
>> Any one know of a good thread pool library. I have tried a few but they
>> don't seem to clean up after them selfs well.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Vitaly Babiy
>>
>>
> As obscene as it seems, I actually use twisted's :)
>
> I mean, it's obscene not because it's badly done or anything, but because
> to use twisted to do threads sounds terribly wrong. But I have twisted
> installed anyway for a different purpose, so figured why not. It seems to
> work fine / scale well / clean up fine (assuming my code is correct).
>
> --S
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
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From luke.leighton at googlemail.com  Sun Aug 30 16:17:56 2009
From: luke.leighton at googlemail.com (lkcl)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 13:17:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: port of GWT GChart to python pyjamas
Message-ID: 

the excellent GWT Chart Library, GChart:
    http://code.google.com/p/gchart/
is being ported to python, to run under the pyjamas [desktop / web]
widget set:
    http://pyjamas.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/pyjamas/trunk/library/pyjamas/chart/
approximately 15 of the 30 examples and 1 of the 90 test charts have
been ported already, enough to show that the libray is in a mostly
useable state, even after only three days.  pie-charts are proving
slightly problematic (as GChartExample24, which is a pie chart editor,
shows).

on the TODO list is:
* the rest of the examples and test charts
* GWT's NumberFormat (a basic one is in place right now)
* GWT's DateFormat (a basic one is in place right now)
* a basic implementation of re.py (for use in pyjs)
* a port of http://code.google.com/p/gwt-canvas/ (for GChart
optimisation purposes)

conversion of the examples from java to python is pretty
straightfoward: pyjamas/contrib/java2py.py is a _very_ basic java to
python converter which takes care of the majority of the global/search/
replace tricks, and also it converts all { } matched braces into the
correct python indentation levels.  when using java2py.py, it relies
on well-formatted code (which 99.9% of GWT is, and 99.5% of GChart
is).  code MUST be converted to actually _have_ braces, so a single-
line "if" statement will give a great deal of grief: pre-editing of
the java code is therefore sometimes required.

please note: no real experience of java programming is required to
convert java into python with java2py.py.

if anyone would like to help out with this porting project, feel free
to check out the source code and submit patches to http://code.google.com/p/pyjamas/issues
and contact http://groups.google.com/group/pyjamas-dev/




From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 16:18:19 2009
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 13:18:19 -0700
Subject: Thread Pool
In-Reply-To: 
References: <8abf49ac0908300956x30d41685xfa1a383adb466aea@mail.gmail.com> 
	<7a9c25c20908301255p13112f64q90a94a9e99fe125@mail.gmail.com> 
	
Message-ID: <7a9c25c20908301318n742de97bydb8c9f9e63219069@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 1:06 PM, John Haggerty  wrote:

> twisted? I don't get it
>

Twisted. Big library / framework for network'd applications. Specifically,
asynchronous network'd applications, really.

--S
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From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sun Aug 30 16:25:40 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 13:25:40 -0700
Subject: Popen question (redundant processes)
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908301325w67af40a0lfbde8418f4a89e5f@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 12:33 PM, Sebastian wrote:
> Hello World!
> This is my first post on the list and I'm hoping it is the right forum and
> not OT, I've searched
> a bit on this, but, none-the-wiser!
>
> My question is on the Popen method, here is my snippet:
>
>> p1 = Popen(["cat", "georgi_ddr7_allmag_kcor_in_test.dat"], stdout=PIPE )
>> p2 = Popen(["fit_coeffs"], stdin=p1.stdout, stdout=PIPE)
>> p3 = Popen(["reconstruct_maggies"], stdin=p2.stdout,stdout=PIPE)
>> output_maggies_z=p3.communicate()[0]
>>
>> p1 = Popen(["cat", "georgi_ddr7_allmag_kcor_in_test.dat"], stdout=PIPE )
>> p2 = Popen(["fit_coeffs"], stdin=p1.stdout, stdout=PIPE)
>> p4 = Popen(["reconstruct_maggies", "--band-shift", "0.1", "--redshift",
>> "0."], stdin=p2.stdout,stdout=PIPE)
>> output_maggies_z0=p4.communicate()[0]
>>
>
> That is, p1 and p2 are the same, but p3 and p4 which they are passed to, are
> different.
> Is there a way to pass p1 and p2 to p3 AND p4 simultaneously, so as to not
> need to
> run p1 and p2 twice, as above?
> What arguments would I need to achieve this?
>
> NOTE: "georgi_ddr7_allmag_kcor_in_test.dat" is a very large file (~1E6
> records)

Send the output of p2 through the unix command "tee"
(http://unixhelp.ed.ac.uk/CGI/man-cgi?tee). Then put the output of tee
into p3 and set p4's input to the file you specified to tee.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From exallion.long at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 16:33:45 2009
From: exallion.long at gmail.com (Mug)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 13:33:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: initilize a memory zone in python
Message-ID: 

hello, i'm new in python, i used to program in C,
i have a small problem, i tryed to do some serial port things
manipulation
with python.
i have something like:

import sys,termios

fd = sys.stdin.fileno()
term_conf=termios.tcgetattr(fd);

now i want to modify the actuall values in term_conf  zone to zero
i don't see how to do it,
in C we can do : bzero(&term_conf,sizeof(struct termios));
i want to know if it exist a similar function in python, thanks


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 16:52:29 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 13:52:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
References: 
	 
	
	
	<0022fef9$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	 
	<725bcd4c-01ed-489d-baa4-288a5c492831@m20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com> 
	<71e92f9c-4094-409d-95d7-9836737d4dc2@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: <8562f607-7bef-422b-b716-487af7c73abc@k13g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 30, 10:27?am, Derek Martin  wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 03:52:36AM -0700, Paul McGuire wrote:
> > > It is surprising how many times we
> > > think things are "intuitive" when we really mean they are "familiar".
>
> > Of course, just as I was typing my response, Steve D'Aprano beat me to
> > the punch.
>
> Intuition means "The power or faculty of attaining to direct knowledge
> or cognition without evident rational thought and inference." ?Very
> naturally, things which behave in a familiar manner are intuitive.
> Familiar and intuitive are very closely tied. ?Correspondingly, when
> things look like something familiar, but behave differently, they are
> naturally unintuitive.

*You* find something unfamiliar, and by your logic that means it's
unintuitive for everyone?

Nice logic there, chief.  Presumptuous much?


Carl Banks


From deets at nospam.web.de  Sun Aug 30 16:58:54 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 22:58:54 +0200
Subject: initilize a memory zone in python
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7g07ghF2ngfq1U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Mug schrieb:
> hello, i'm new in python, i used to program in C,
> i have a small problem, i tryed to do some serial port things
> manipulation
> with python.
> i have something like:
> 
> import sys,termios
> 
> fd = sys.stdin.fileno()
> term_conf=termios.tcgetattr(fd);
> 
> now i want to modify the actuall values in term_conf  zone to zero
> i don't see how to do it,
> in C we can do : bzero(&term_conf,sizeof(struct termios));
> i want to know if it exist a similar function in python, thanks

In python you don't modify memory like that.

For the above function, you pass a value as the one you got to 
tcgetattr, with values modified as you desire them.

Diez


From nobody at nowhere.com  Sun Aug 30 17:12:49 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 22:12:49 +0100
Subject: IDE for python similar to visual basic
References: <2a17396c-4d6d-4cb0-a314-208054a2f774@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<6cb48259-3e42-4efe-b856-7b0f1a141024@o21g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 10:48:24 -0700, r wrote:

> I think a point and click GUI builder (although some may disagree) is
> actually detrimental to your programming skills. The ability to
> visualize the GUI only from the source code as you read it, is as
> important to a programmer as site reading sheet music is to a
> musician. And I like to program with the training wheels off.

The main advantage of a GUI builder is that it helps prevent you from
hard-coding the GUI into the program. You could get the same effect by
coding a UIL/XRC/etc file manually, but a GUI builder tends to force it.

It also allows the GUI to be edited by without requiring any programming
knowledge. This eliminates the need for the GUI designer to be familiar
with the programming language used (or any programming language), and
allows customisation by end users.

Creating a GUI programmatically is almost always the wrong approach. It
tends to be adopted due to a path of least resistance, rather than any
affirmative reason.



From 71david at libero.it  Sun Aug 30 17:23:20 2009
From: 71david at libero.it (David)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 23:23:20 +0200
Subject: Why does this group have so much spam?
References: <7294bf8b-9819-4b6d-92b2-afc1c8042a06@x6g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<7l1wem586nhf.c8spq9wpqg99.dlg@40tude.net>
	
Message-ID: 

Il Sun, 30 Aug 2009 19:13:38 +0100, Nobody ha scritto:

> Apart from the impossibility of implementing such a tax, it isn't going to
> discourage spammers when the tax will be paid by the owner of the
> compromised PC from which they're sending their spam.

I don't agree.
Each computer connected to internet is phisically connected to a carrer's
hub. Each carrier can easily count smtp packets of each user as they can
detect, filter and in some nations prosecute, p2p users.

The owner of compromised PC should be responsible of his computer like the
owner of a car is responsible of damages caused by its car. 
That owner should keep his computer clean as he *must* keep his car
functional and safe. 
Today most of the people consider cyber security an optional, but all of us
pay for their negligence. Those people are externalizing to the rest of the
world their costs in terms of SO updating, antivirus, firewall and
knowledge. This is unfair.
This is mainly a matter of sensibility and culture: in '50/60s active and
passive car safety was an optional, today is a must.
I think it's time to switch to responsible computing and the mail-tax would
charge each person of its own costs and annoyances without affectig the rest
of the world.

> 
> If you want to avoid usenet spam and don't want to filter it yourself,
> find a provider with more aggressive spam filter. 

This is not the solution. You are saying that if your neighbour makes loud
noises you can not call police to impose him to cease but you can only make
your home soundproof.

> Ultimately, it's up to
> the person running the news server as to which posts they will or will not
> accept.

Are you suggesting to moderate every news server and mail server all over
the world? THIS is impossible!

D.


From bouncyinc at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 17:30:57 2009
From: bouncyinc at gmail.com (John Haggerty)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 15:30:57 -0600
Subject: Sending email
In-Reply-To: 
References: <7fpj9tF2clhemU1@mid.individual.net>
	<2b3621fd-53fc-4f20-a048-3608894e52af@o9g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<7fq7aiF2mp83gU1@mid.individual.net>
	
Message-ID: 

I would concur

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 9:49 AM, 7stud  wrote:

> On Aug 28, 8:18 am, Fencer 
> wrote:
> > 7stud wrote:
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > Thanks for your reply. After consulting the sysadmins here I was able to
> > get it to work.
> >
> > - Fencer
>
>
> Ok, but how about posting your code so that a future searcher will not
> be left screaming, "WHAT THE EFF WAS THE SOLUTION!!"
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From barcaroller at music.net  Sun Aug 30 17:37:11 2009
From: barcaroller at music.net (barcaroller)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 17:37:11 -0400
Subject: PyGTK problems after Linux update...
References: 
	<7fq56dF2m6qlbU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: 


"Thomas Guettler"  wrote in message 
news:7fq56dF2m6qlbU1 at mid.individual.net...

> Looks like your pygtk package does not fit to the installed python 
> package.

Okay, I won't disagree, but I how do if fix this?





From exallion.long at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 17:59:50 2009
From: exallion.long at gmail.com (Mug)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 14:59:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: initilize a memory zone in python
References: 
	<7g07ghF2ngfq1U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <18627379-8056-4ee9-b3b8-d5fd4cd0590c@y20g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 30, 8:58?pm, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
> Mug schrieb:
>
> > hello, i'm new in python, i used to program in C,
> > i have a small problem, i tryed to do some serial port things
> > manipulation
> > with python.
> > i have something like:
>
> > import sys,termios
>
> > fd = sys.stdin.fileno()
> > term_conf=termios.tcgetattr(fd);
>
> > now i want to modify the actuall values in term_conf ?zone to zero
> > i don't see how to do it,
> > in C we can do : bzero(&term_conf,sizeof(struct termios));
> > i want to know if it exist a similar function in python, thanks
>
> In python you don't modify memory like that.
>
> For the above function, you pass a value as the one you got to
> tcgetattr, with values modified as you desire them.
i tryed
print term_conf
and i saw that the term_conf is actually represent with an array in
python:

zsh/3 4201 [1] % python test.py
[27906, 5, 1215, 35387, 15, 15, ['\x03', '\x1c', '\x7f', '\x15',
'\x04', '\x00', '\x01', '\xff', '\x11', '\x13', '\x1a', '\xff',
'\x12', '\x0f', '\x17', '\x16', '\xff', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00',
'\x00', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00',
'\x00', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00']]

it's a array of 7 elements, with the seventh element it self a array,
so in order to initialize them to zero, there's no other way than
modify them
one by one in a loop? is there a fonction like "memset" or "bzero" in
python?

>
> Diez



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Aug 30 18:24:00 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 18:24:00 -0400
Subject: quantiles of a student distribution
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Pierre wrote:
> Hello...
> 
> Do you know how I can calculate the quantiles of a student
> distribution in pyhton ?

Try searching the net for 'Python student distribution quantiles'



From rt8396 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 18:28:55 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 15:28:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	 
	
	
	 
	 
	<1ab2c088-bead-43fa-bf4a-3e7f4d84e871@g1g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <59cad1ba-1162-4227-9375-d132ef030a7b@d21g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 30, 2:05?pm, Paul Boddie  wrote:
(snip)
> You don't care which language it is as long as it's the one you use.
> That's what this sounds like, layered on top of what you've already
> written (and what you write below).

I said it before and i will say it again. I DON"T CARE WHAT LANGUAGE
WE USE AS LONG AS IT IS A MODERN LANGUAGE FOUNDED ON IDEALS OF
SIMPLICITY!!!!

> How about Esperanto? You have
> heard of Esperanto, right? Or take your pick from the other artificial
> languages - they're relatively popular in some places where English
> isn't the natural first-choice foreign language.

English is by far already the de-facto lingua franca throughout the
world. However it has many shortcommings. The most prevalent being
idiotic pronunciation. You can thank neo-nazi-linguist and your third
grade language teachers for this brainwashing. Academias raping of
languages has been going on for centuries.

> > Look history is great but i am more concerned with the future. Learn
> > the lessons of the past, move on, and live for the future. If you want
> > to study the hair styles of Neanderthal women be my guest. Anybody
> > with half a brain knows the one world government and language is
> > coming. Why stop evolution, it is our destiny and it will improve the
> > human experience.
>
> Again, we witness a distortion of scientific concepts through the use
> of political themes.

You can deny the holocaust all you want but it still happened and so
too shall the great unity! Sadly because of cultural and social
fanatics like yourself, it will probably take another great war to
usher in the new order.

> Even Xah Lee's harshest critics must acknowledge that Xah delivers a
> less offensive, more entertaining rant than this. At least Xah has
> mastered the art of the expletive.

So you are advocating for me to use derogatory statements in my post,
no thanks i need not resort to adolescent rants to argue my points.
And why do you continue to compare me to XL. Has XL *ever* helped a
python user in this forum? I have, many times. I am *actually* a
python programmer who cares about Python and my posts bring much vigor
and intelligence to an otherwise boring NG -- like me or not.

> You're on a slippery slope when you claim that people deserve whatever
> mistreatment or misfortune comes their way through mere circumstances
> of birth. I suggest you step back and actually read your messages
> again and consider how others might interpret them.

Paul: civilizations rise and fall, this is beyond our control. Every
great power will utter fail at some point. Some die out like a slow
burning candle, others go quickly and painfully from defeating blows
in war time. This is an eventuality you must face friend. This whole
save the whales BS is really getting on my nerves! Stop trying to play
God Paul, it is not your decision when and where the blade shall
fall.

When a people stop evolving and no longer have anything productive to
give to evolution, evolution stamps them out. If the Indians had
developed gun power and industrialized America they might be running
more than merely a casino. Oh No! Was that out of line, you will
probably think so.

Stay in know and you shall endure...



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Aug 30 18:31:42 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 18:31:42 -0400
Subject: Why does this group have so much spam?
In-Reply-To: <86vdk5o2p6.fsf@betla.izb.knu.ac.kr>
References: <7294bf8b-9819-4b6d-92b2-afc1c8042a06@x6g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<86vdk5o2p6.fsf@betla.izb.knu.ac.kr>
Message-ID: 

Byung-Hee HWANG wrote:
> casebash  writes:
> 
>> So much of it could be removed even by simple keyword filtering.
> 
> Use python-list at python.org [1], instead.
> 
> [1] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Or read python-list as a newsgroup via news.gmane.org, which mirrors 
python-list, not c.l.p.




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Aug 30 18:33:30 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 18:33:30 -0400
Subject: Why does this group have so much spam?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <7294bf8b-9819-4b6d-92b2-afc1c8042a06@x6g2000prc.googlegroups.com>	<7l1wem586nhf.c8spq9wpqg99.dlg@40tude.net>
	
Message-ID: 

Nobody wrote:

> Apart from the impossibility of implementing such a tax, it isn't going to
> discourage spammers when the tax will be paid by the owner of the
> compromised PC from which they're sending their spam.

It would encourge PC owners to not let their machine be used as a spambot.



From cousinstanley at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 18:40:33 2009
From: cousinstanley at gmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 22:40:33 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Combining C and Python programs
References: 
Message-ID: 



> I want to write a program that will use ode for the physics 
> simulation, whose python bindings are outdated. So I'm writing 
> the physics engine in C and want to write the drawing code in 
> Python. What will be the best way of making those two programs 
> work together? THe physics engine won't have to run concurrently 
> with the drawing code. It will only return some position data so 
> they can be drawn.

  You might find VPython useful .... 

      http://www.vpython.org/

  A VPython example using ode ....

      http://vpython.wikidot.com/forum/t-109218


-- 
Stanley C. Kitching
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona



From barcaroller at music.net  Sun Aug 30 18:41:51 2009
From: barcaroller at music.net (barcaroller)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 18:41:51 -0400
Subject: PyGTK problems after Linux update...
References: 
	<7fq56dF2m6qlbU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: 


"Thomas Guettler"  wrote in message
news:7fq56dF2m6qlbU1 at mid.individual.net...

> Looks like your pygtk package does not fit to the installed python
> package.

Okay, I won't disagree, but how do I fix this?




From rt8396 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 19:08:46 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 16:08:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Why does this group have so much spam?
References: <7294bf8b-9819-4b6d-92b2-afc1c8042a06@x6g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<7l1wem586nhf.c8spq9wpqg99.dlg@40tude.net>
	 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 30, 4:23?pm, David <71da... at libero.it> wrote:
(snip)
> The owner of compromised PC should be responsible of his computer like the
> owner of a car is responsible of damages caused by its car.
> That owner should keep his computer clean as he *must* keep his car
> functional and safe.

Yes i agree but your logic is flawed. If someone cuts my brake lines
and i cannot stop who is to blame? Or if someone throws nails on the
highway and i crash, who is to blame? Obviously you cannot blame the
car owner. However if i let my brake pads wear out until they are
metal on metal and run over some poor old lady crossing the street --
well now you got me! ;)

But you cannot apply this logic when a hacker compromises someones
computer, it the same as cutting their brake lines. How can you
honestly expect that Joe computer user will know of this infection? Do
you even know where your brake lines are? Even hackers can be hacked
without ever knowing it! The only sure fire way is VM's or system re-
installs.

> Today most of the people consider cyber security an optional, but all of us
> pay for their negligence. Those people are externalizing to the rest of the
> world their costs in terms of SO updating, antivirus, firewall and
> knowledge. This is unfair.

Yes, keeping a running AV and proper updating i agree with...

> This is mainly a matter of sensibility and culture: in '50/60s active and
> passive car safety was an optional, today is a must.
> I think it's time to switch to responsible computing and the mail-tax would
> charge each person of its own costs and annoyances without affectig the rest
> of the world.

What, this is madness! If you have terrorist terrorizing your country
you don't tax the public when they blow up a shopping mall so you can
rebuild it! No you kill the terrorist in a harsh and painful manner
and make an example of them, then you seize there monies. You should
direct your anger to the proper internet security authorities(and more
importantly to the perpetrator's) and not the innocent victims of such
attacks. I want you to sit back and think very deeply about your
proposal here because it is horribly wrong.

It is so easy to just slap a tax on something, yes that will solve
everything. *sarcasm*

> > If you want to avoid usenet spam and don't want to filter it yourself,
> > find a provider with more aggressive spam filter.
>
> This is not the solution. You are saying that if your neighbour makes loud
> noises you can not call police to impose him to cease but you can only make
> your home soundproof.

or you could go over and punch him in the nose, works every time for
me ;-)



From rt8396 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 19:24:00 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 16:24:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Colors on IDLE
References: 
	 
	
	<59922ab5-f8c9-429f-b1ea-9b1418aa6b71@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	<8d5d283f-b0bd-4e16-97c7-d2de1a148cae@l35g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <45407662-a944-4e8c-922e-83095cd2ce9e@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 28, 6:27?pm, r  wrote:
> Have you tried saving the files as MYScriptName.py? notice the py
> extension, very important ;)

Just for fun try the .pyw extension and observe the result.


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 19:36:31 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 16:36:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	<4a9a0988$0$1669$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 30, 1:08?pm, Nobody  wrote:
(snip)
> Because that would be the likely consequence of such a stance. Japanese
> websites will continue to use Shift-JIS, Japanese cellphones (or
> Scandanavian cellphones aimed at the Japanese market, for that matter)
> will continue to render websites which use Shift-JIS, and HTML 5 will be
> just as much a pure academic exercise as all of the other HTML standards.

Yes and this keep-everyone-happy crap will go on for centuries.
Unicode will then turn into another elephant sized bloatware standard
that only VB and MSDN, M$ Office, and Adobe PDF can hold a candle to.
Who cares, hard drives can hold terabytes of useless junk, right?

This is starting to border on OCD tendencies and i for one am getting
very nervous.


From david.lyon at preisshare.net  Sun Aug 30 20:06:52 2009
From: david.lyon at preisshare.net (David Lyon)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 20:06:52 -0400
Subject: ubuntu dist-packages
In-Reply-To: <0298b834-78b4-4501-a09b-9b8da5e796c1@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<7fki3lF2kirnkU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	<71f5986e-6aae-46b0-8325-d67051c60a30@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<7fnftkF2m6bvdU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<0298b834-78b4-4501-a09b-9b8da5e796c1@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 07:05:51 -0700 (PDT), Paul Boddie 
wrote:
> No, it's the problem of the Pythonic packaging brigade that package
> retrieval, building and installing is combined into one unsatisfactory
> whole. 

Brigade? That implies a disciplined and systematic approach..

I would suggest a better term is just guerrilla fighters.

There's no central planning.. no looking out for the greater good..

No sense of future.. forgive my pessimism.. 

> In fact, the distributions have proven themselves
> to be quite competent at managing huge numbers of software packages in
> a semi-automated fashion, so it's baffling that people doing work on
> Pythonic packaging tools wouldn't want to learn as much as they can
> about how those people manage it.

That's a serious and true allegation. I think the answer is that the
people that are running it aren't interested in cleaning things up
for the linux or windows platform.

Consensus seems to be just "remove" anything that relates to windows
or linux as an approach to harmonising it.

I believe that it should be harmonised.


> For me, when making Debian packages, it has become easier to use the
> debhelper stuff to install things like documentation and resources
> than it is to figure out which special options have to be passed to
> the particular distutils incarnation of the setup function in order to
> get such stuff put in the right place, especially since distutils
> probably still employs an ad-hoc 1990s proprietary UNIX "oh just dump
> that stuff in some directory or other and forget about it" mentality.

It doesn't. Actually, it can't even do that very well.

90's.... which '90s ? 1890's ?

> Really, distutils should be all about *dist*ribution and even then get
> out of the way as much as possible - the hard stuff is extracting the
> appropriate knowledge about the built Python interpreter in order to
> build extensions. 

Exactly.

> Installation should be left to something which has
> an opinion about where things should be placed on a particular system,
> and which has the capability to know how to uninstall stuff - a
> capability which never seems to get any closer in the distutils scene.

(sigh) - it is true...

David



From grante at visi.com  Sun Aug 30 20:25:45 2009
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 19:25:45 -0500
Subject: initilize a memory zone in python
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-30, Mug  wrote:

> hello, i'm new in python, i used to program in C, i have a
> small problem, i tryed to do some serial port things

You're probably better off just using pyserial:

  http://pyserial.sourceforge.net/

If you really want to muck about with termios stuff, you can
look at the posix serial module in pyserial to see how it's
done.

> import sys,termios
>
> fd = sys.stdin.fileno()
> term_conf=termios.tcgetattr(fd);
>
> now i want to modify the actuall values in term_conf zone to
> zero

Have you looked at the documentation for termios.tcgettattr()?

It returns a list of integers.  If you want set them to zero,
then just set them to zero.

If you want a configuration that's all zeros, why bother
calling tcgetattr() at all?  Just set the configuration to
zeros:

term_conf = [0,0,0,0,0,0]

-- 
Grant



From grante at visi.com  Sun Aug 30 20:37:15 2009
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 19:37:15 -0500
Subject: initilize a memory zone in python
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-31, Grant Edwards  wrote:

> If you want a configuration that's all zeros, why bother
> calling tcgetattr() at all?  Just set the configuration to
> zeros:
>
> term_conf = [0,0,0,0,0,0]

Oops, I forgot about cc.  That should be:

  term_conf = [0,0,0,0,0,0,['\x00']*32]

That's why it's easier to just use pyserial ;)
  
-- 
Grant




From walkraft at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 20:49:52 2009
From: walkraft at gmail.com (casebash)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 17:49:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Nice copy in interactive terminal
References: 
	<1250153823.228153@athprx03>
	<0dac8bc9-8f00-4f4e-bc29-b475bade7685@y10g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <67cb16ca-89a5-43f3-8074-990b491faa7d@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

I managed to get some more answers here:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1352886/nice-copying-from-python-interpreter

On Aug 14, 5:05?pm, casebash  wrote:
> I mainly develop on Linux these days, but if I ever end up doing
> anything on windows I'll make sure to look at that.
>
> On Aug 13, 6:56?pm, "Elias Fotinis \(eliasf\)" 
> wrote:
>
> > "casebash" wrote:
> > > I've been wondering for a while if there exists an interactive
> > > terminal which has nice copy feature (ie. I can copy code without
> > > getting the >>> in front of every line).
>
> > It would help if we knew what platform you're interested in -- your
> > User-Agent is G2/1.0, but I don't know what that is. ?:o)
>
> > On Windows, PythonWin can copy from the interactive window without the
> > prompts.
>
>



From walkraft at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 20:50:45 2009
From: walkraft at gmail.com (casebash)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 17:50:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Determining the metaclass
References: <6f69f304-3cf1-45c8-b86d-f57751bcc2ed@d15g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<3e1b7e0b-e44c-4b34-9866-33aa7b33a3af@v37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Thanks, I am silly


>
> > I cannot determine if a class is an instance of a particular
> > metaclass. Here is my best attempt
>
> > >>> class tmp(type):
>
> > ... ? ? pass
> > ...>>> def c(metaclass=tmp):
>
> > ... ? ? pass
> > ...>>> isinstance(c, tmp)
> > False
> > >>> isinstance(c.__class__, tmp)
>
> > False
>
> > Can anyone explain why this fails?
>
> You're gonna kick yourself.
>
> It's because you used "def" and not "class" to define c. ?If you'd
> used "class" then then first test would have worked.
>
> Carl Banks



From rt8396 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 20:51:28 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 17:51:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: initilize a memory zone in python
References: 
	<7g07ghF2ngfq1U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<18627379-8056-4ee9-b3b8-d5fd4cd0590c@y20g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2f4ad057-c88b-4fe7-8858-3511b2a10f27@y20g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 30, 4:59?pm, Mug  wrote:
(snip)
> is there a fonction like "memset" or "bzero" in python?

Not that i know of ;). Try this link for a coverage of the Python
built-in functions. You cannot write quality Python code without
them.
http://docs.python.org/3.1/library/functions.html

What you refer to as an array is called a list round here, see this
informative read
http://docs.python.org/3.1/library/stdtypes.html#sequence-types-str-bytes-bytearray-list-tuple-range

And be sure to check out list comprehentions too, just icing on the
cake ;)

python 3000 docs
http://docs.python.org/3.1/




From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Sun Aug 30 21:29:14 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 22:29:14 -0300
Subject: Popen question (redundant processes)
References: 
	<50697b2c0908301325w67af40a0lfbde8418f4a89e5f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

En Sun, 30 Aug 2009 17:25:40 -0300, Chris Rebert   
escribi?:

> On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 12:33 PM, Sebastian wrote:
>> Hello World!
>> This is my first post on the list and I'm hoping it is the right forum  
>> and
>> not OT, I've searched
>> a bit on this, but, none-the-wiser!
>>
>> My question is on the Popen method, here is my snippet:
>>
>>> p1 = Popen(["cat", "georgi_ddr7_allmag_kcor_in_test.dat"], stdout=PIPE  
>>> )
>>> p2 = Popen(["fit_coeffs"], stdin=p1.stdout, stdout=PIPE)
>>> p3 = Popen(["reconstruct_maggies"], stdin=p2.stdout,stdout=PIPE)
>>> output_maggies_z=p3.communicate()[0]
>>>
>>> p1 = Popen(["cat", "georgi_ddr7_allmag_kcor_in_test.dat"], stdout=PIPE  
>>> )
>>> p2 = Popen(["fit_coeffs"], stdin=p1.stdout, stdout=PIPE)
>>> p4 = Popen(["reconstruct_maggies", "--band-shift", "0.1", "--redshift",
>>> "0."], stdin=p2.stdout,stdout=PIPE)
>>> output_maggies_z0=p4.communicate()[0]
>>>
>>
>> That is, p1 and p2 are the same, but p3 and p4 which they are passed  
>> to, are
>> different.
>> Is there a way to pass p1 and p2 to p3 AND p4 simultaneously, so as to  
>> not
>> need to
>> run p1 and p2 twice, as above?
>> What arguments would I need to achieve this?
>>
>> NOTE: "georgi_ddr7_allmag_kcor_in_test.dat" is a very large file (~1E6
>> records)
>
> Send the output of p2 through the unix command "tee"
> (http://unixhelp.ed.ac.uk/CGI/man-cgi?tee). Then put the output of tee
> into p3 and set p4's input to the file you specified to tee.

In addition to that, you can avoid the cat command (and omit p1  
completely), just pass the georgi file as p2 stdin:
p2 = Popen(["fit_coeffs"], stdin=open("georgi..."), ...

In other words, the original shell commands are:

cat georgi.dat | fit | reconstruct
cat georgi.dat | fit | reconstruct --otherargs

and we suggest doing:

fit < georgi.dat | tee /tmp/foo | reconstruct
reconstruct  --otherargs < /tmp/foo

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From timr at probo.com  Sun Aug 30 23:18:41 2009
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 20:18:41 -0700
Subject: why python got less developers ?
References: 
	
	<1ccf54f5-b1f5-4c4a-b782-fde1a1648cf6@l5g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3bfm959q7f430caogglsctpoc6j917d7m6@4ax.com>

Esam Qanadeely  wrote:
>On Aug 28, 8:27?am, Tim Roberts  wrote:
>> Deep_Feelings  wrote:
>>
>> >python got relatively fewer numbers of developers than other high
>> >level languages like .NET , java .. etc ?why ?
>>
>> How do you know, and why does it matter?
>>
>> By the way, .NET is not a language. ?I assume you meant C#.
>
>you know when you go to forums and compare the number of posts and
>topics ,and you know when you google and compare the number of results
>
>.NET= i meant all .NET languages

That's hardly a fair way to categorize things.  "All .NET languages"
includes C++, C#, Basic, Java (in J#), Ocaml (in F#), and Python.
-- 
Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From drsalists at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 23:27:55 2009
From: drsalists at gmail.com (Dan Stromberg)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 20:27:55 -0700
Subject: Reading binary files
In-Reply-To: <4eb0089f0908241443p348eea3dxd57581e37f94d0bd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9c8c445f0908240735k6599045dn5ecbd63fa76bfe6e@mail.gmail.com>	<1251125039.23757.0.camel@brotherus.corp.redhat.com>	<9c8c445f0908240818k1ae301acr49c65ccb21435cd7@mail.gmail.com>	<9c8c445f0908240950h24e5bfccoc9ae809c1048be5d@mail.gmail.com>
	<4eb0089f0908241443p348eea3dxd57581e37f94d0bd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A9B433B.8050203@gmail.com>

David Robinow wrote:
>>> This works for a simple binary file, but the actual file I'm trying to
>>> read is give throwing an error that the file cannot be found. Here is the
>>> name of the my file:
>>> 2009.08.02_06.52.00_WA-1_0001_00_0662_0.jstars
>>>
>>> Should python have trouble reading this file name or extension?
>>>       
>> I'm having trouble with the filename:
>> 2009.08.02_06.52.00_WA-1_0001_00_0662_0.jstars
>>
>> It throws an error with that file name, When I change it to something like
>> sample.txt it runs, but the data is still garbled. Is there any reason why I
>> can't use the above file name? If I'm using 'rb' to read the binary file why
>> is it still garbled?
>>     
>  I don't think it's garbled. It's a binary file. What do you expect?
>
> It's been over ten years since I've worked with any JSTARS stuff so I
> can't give you any details but you almost certainly have some sort of
> imagery. The military has a lot of bizarre formats and whoever sent
> you the data should have included a data sheet describing the format
> (or a pointer to such).  Ideally, you'll also get a pointer to code to
> read the thing, but sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and
> write a program to process the file.
>    (If all else fails, look at a dump of the first 512 bytes or so;
> often the image size is included at the beginning; maybe in ASCII, 16
> bit ints, 32 bit ints, floating point -- who knows)
> There've been times when I had to just display the thing at 512 or
> 1024 bytes (or ints) per row and try to surmise the info from that.
> So, look for the file description.
> ...
> Googling a bit:   I see there's a package at
>    http://www.mbari.org/data/mbsystem/index.html
> which purports to handle some JSTARS stuff. I've no idea if that will help you.
>   
If you don't find anything preexisting for reading JSTARS format, this 
might help:

http://stromberg.dnsalias.org/~strombrg/converting-binary.html



From nagle at animats.com  Mon Aug 31 00:29:38 2009
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 21:29:38 -0700
Subject: What python can NOT do?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	<4a998465$0$1637$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>	
	
Message-ID: <4a9b506c$0$1675$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

exarkun at twistedmatrix.com wrote:
> On 10:23 pm, aahz at pythoncraft.com wrote:
>> In article <4a998465$0$1637$742ec2ed at news.sonic.net>,
>> John Nagle   wrote:
>>>
>>>    Personally, I consider Python to be a good language held back by
>>> too-close ties to a naive interpreter implementation and the lack
>>> of a formal standard for the language.
...
> 
> For my part, I will agree with John.  I feel like Python's big 
> shortcomings stem from the areas he mentioned.  They're related to each 
> other as well - the lack of a standard hampers the development of a less 
> naive interpreter (either one based on CPython or another one).  It 
> doesn't completely prevent such development (obviously, as CPython 
> continues to undergo development, and there are a number of alternate 
> runtimes for Python-like languages), but there's clearly a cost 
> associated with the fact that in order to do this development, a lot of 
> time has to be spent figuring out what Python *is*.  This is the kind of 
> thing that a standard would help with.

    Right.  Python is a moving target for developers of implementations other
than CPython.  IronPython's production version is at Python 2.5, with a
beta at 2.6.  Shed Skin is at 2.x and lacks the manpower to get to 3.x.
Psyco I'm not sure about, but it's 2.x.  PyPy is at Python 2.5, but PyPy
is currently slower than CPython.

    A solid Python 3 standard would give everyone a target to shoot for that
would be good for five years or so.

					John Nagle


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 00:31:29 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 21:31:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: why python got less developers ?
References: 
	
	<604b21ef-a3ad-4da8-92f5-c1d22345b4d7@p15g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <798eded3-b3fe-4995-9e63-bff718b18889@m20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 29, 11:14?pm, kennyken747  wrote:
(snip)
> You guys can say anything you'd like it to be in this thread, but the
> actual reason comes down to
> 1. No marketing. Seriously, if Microsoft was pushing Python it would
> obviously be a lot bigger in terms of developers.

I really don't care if 100 or 100 million are using Python as long as
it will endure my lifetime so i can use it ;). But it would be
interesting to see a good approx of this number... just for kicks

> Also, really guys? This crap about speed? People have been saying this
> for years, and yet they still don't realize that there are plenty
> solutions to take care of that one problem.
>
> Just be happy that you've stumbled upon Python, just because it's not
> the most widespread language in the world certainly doesn't mean it's
> not a worthy language. Quite the opposite.

Your post seems a contridiction of itself? i am confused :\



From kerensaelise at hotmail.com  Mon Aug 31 00:55:52 2009
From: kerensaelise at hotmail.com (elsa)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 21:55:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: map
Message-ID: <777de4d8-e591-4d21-bbd0-b286105895bc@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

i have a question about the built in map function. Here 'tis:

say I have a list, myList. Now say I have a function with more than
one argument:

myFunc(a, b='None')

now, say I want to map myFunc onto myList, with always the same
argument for b, but iterating over a:

map(myFunc(b='booHoo'), myList)

Why doesn't this work? is there a way to make it work?

(Ultimately, I want to call myFunc(myList[0], 'booHoo'), myFunc(myList
[1], 'booHoo'), myFunc(myList[2], 'booHoo') etc. However, I might want
to call myFunc(myList[0], 'woo'), myFunc(myList[1], 'woo'), myFunc
(myList[2], 'woo') some other time).

Thanks,

Elsa


From mmm286 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 01:08:39 2009
From: mmm286 at gmail.com (mierdatutis mi)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 22:08:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: connect to ms sql server with odbc
Message-ID: 

Hi,

I'm newbie in python. I try to connect to remote server with ms sql
server from my ubuntu. I install pyodbc and I do:

 >>> conn = >>> Conn =
 pyodbc.connect("DRIVER=
{FreeTDS};SERVER=defekas62;UID=emuser;PWD=temporal;DATABASE=em620")
pyodbc.connect ( "DRIVER = () FreeTDS; SERVER = defekas62; UID =
emuser; PWD = temporal; em620 DATABASE =")
 cursor = conn.cursor() cursor = conn.cursor ()
 >>> for row in cursor.execute("select USERNAME from JOBACTIONS"): >>>
Para la fila en cursor.execute ( "usuario seleccionar de
JOBACTIONS"):
 ... ... print row.USERNAME row.USERNAME de impresi?n
   File "", line 2 Archivo "", l?nea 2
     print row.USERNAME row.USERNAME de impresi?n
         ^ ^
 IndentationError: expected an indented block
Why this error?
Many thanks and sorry for my english


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Mon Aug 31 01:17:30 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 22:17:30 -0700
Subject: map
In-Reply-To: <777de4d8-e591-4d21-bbd0-b286105895bc@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
References: <777de4d8-e591-4d21-bbd0-b286105895bc@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908302217o4d2f445m96bc713f93be961e@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 9:55 PM, elsa wrote:
> Hi,
>
> i have a question about the built in map function. Here 'tis:
>
> say I have a list, myList. Now say I have a function with more than
> one argument:
>
> myFunc(a, b='None')
>
> now, say I want to map myFunc onto myList, with always the same
> argument for b, but iterating over a:
>
> map(myFunc(b='booHoo'), myList)
>
> Why doesn't this work?

Because myFunc is executed before map() is ever called, and you didn't
specify a value for the `a` parameter, hence you get an error about
not giving a value for `a`.
Another way of saying this: Python uses "eager evaluation"
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eager_evaluation) most of the time.

> is there a way to make it work?

Use functools.partial to fill in the `b` parameter:
http://docs.python.org/library/functools.html#functools.partial

#untested example:
from functools import partial
f = partial(myFunc, b='booHoo')
map(f, myList)

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From rurpy at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 31 01:19:13 2009
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 22:19:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: map
References: <777de4d8-e591-4d21-bbd0-b286105895bc@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On 08/30/2009 10:55 PM, elsa wrote:
> i have a question about the built in map function. Here 'tis:
>
> say I have a list, myList. Now say I have a function with more than
> one argument:
>
> myFunc(a, b='None')
>
> now, say I want to map myFunc onto myList, with always the same
> argument for b, but iterating over a:
>
> map(myFunc(b='booHoo'), myList)
>
> Why doesn't this work? is there a way to make it work?

When you write "map(myFunc(b='booHoo'), myList)", you are telling
Python to call myFunc before the map function is called, because
an argument list, "(b='booHoo')", follows myFunc.  You want
to pass map a function object, not the results of calling a
function object.

A couple ways to do what you want:

  map(lambda a: myFunc(a, b='booHoo'), myList)

The lamba expression creates a new function of one argument
(which is needed by map) that, when executed, will call myFunc
with the two arguments it needs.

You can also just define an ordinary function that does
the same thing as the lambda above:

  def tmpFunc (a)
    myFunc (a, b='booHoo')
  ...
  map (tmpFunc, myList)

In the functools module there is a function called "partial"
that does something similar to the lambda above.  I'll leave
it to you you look it up if interested.

HTH


From half.italian at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 01:24:22 2009
From: half.italian at gmail.com (Sean DiZazzo)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 22:24:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: connect to ms sql server with odbc
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 30, 10:08?pm, mierdatutis mi  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm newbie in python. I try to connect to remote server with ms sql
> server from my ubuntu. I install pyodbc and I do:
>
> ?>>> conn = >>> Conn =
> ?pyodbc.connect("DRIVER=
> {FreeTDS};SERVER=defekas62;UID=emuser;PWD=temporal;DATABASE=em620")
> pyodbc.connect ( "DRIVER = () FreeTDS; SERVER = defekas62; UID =
> emuser; PWD = temporal; em620 DATABASE =")
> ?cursor = conn.cursor() cursor = conn.cursor ()
> ?>>> for row in cursor.execute("select USERNAME from JOBACTIONS"): >>>
> Para la fila en cursor.execute ( "usuario seleccionar de
> JOBACTIONS"):
> ?... ... print row.USERNAME row.USERNAME de impresi?n
> ? ?File "", line 2 Archivo "", l?nea 2
> ? ? ?print row.USERNAME row.USERNAME de impresi?n
> ? ? ? ? ?^ ^
> ?IndentationError: expected an indented block
> Why this error?
> Many thanks and sorry for my english

Welcome to python.  The error is telling you exactly what it says.
There is a block of code that is not indented properly.  Perhaps your
code was edited with two different editors?

Tabs are not equal to spaces.  Go thru your code and be sure that you
are consistent with all of your spacing.  I believe 4 spaces per
indent (without tabs) is the current Python standard.

~Sean


From news3 at mystrobl.de  Mon Aug 31 01:34:28 2009
From: news3 at mystrobl.de (Wolfgang Strobl)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 07:34:28 +0200
Subject: map
References: <777de4d8-e591-4d21-bbd0-b286105895bc@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <91om95pbqtcduss20iv37f44scr89fgudb@4ax.com>

elsa :

>now, say I want to map myFunc onto myList, with always the same
>argument for b, but iterating over a:

>>> from functools import partial
>>> def g(x,y=1): return x+y
...
>>> map(partial(g,y=2),[1,2])
[3, 4]
>>> map(partial(g,y=42),[1,2])
[43, 44]


-- 
Wir danken f?r die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen


From erik.reppen at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 02:10:07 2009
From: erik.reppen at gmail.com (Erik Reppen)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 23:10:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: why python got less developers ?
References: 
Message-ID: 

It seems to be a language embraced by people who enjoy coding. Not so
much by the time-spent-seeking-degree to paycheck ratio balancing
crowd. Or maybe I just hate bloated IDEs and I've heard too many Java
dev jokes to be impartial.


From ubershmekel at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 02:26:59 2009
From: ubershmekel at gmail.com (RunThePun)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 23:26:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Overriding iadd for dictionary like objects
References: 
	<87ws4n5gfi.fsf@slice.rozzin.com>  
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 30, 10:33?pm, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
> In article ,
>
>
>
>
>
> RunThePun ? wrote:
>
> >I made a DictMixin where the keys are filenames and the values are the
> >file contents. It was very simple and easy to do thanks to DictMixin.
>
> >For example this code writes "abc" in a file named "temp.txt" and
> >prints the contents of the file named "swallow", these files are
> >looked up/created/deleted in the directory "spam":
> >>>> d =3D FilesDict('spam')
> >>>> d['temp.txt'] =3D 'abc'
> >>>> print(d['swallow'])
>
> >My problem arose when I wanted to append a string to a file which
> >using open(..., 'ab') would have been miles more efficient because I
> >wouldn't have to read the entire file (__getitem__) and then write the
> >entire file back (__setitem__). The files are expected to be as big as
> >600 KB which will be appended 30 bytes at a time about 3 times a
> >second. Performance-wise the system would probably work without open
> >(..., 'ab') but it would be a real thrashing so the current solution
> >uses a method "AddTo" as Robert suggested, sacrificing the neat
> >getitem/setitem syntax.
>
> You can do mostly what you want, I think, by having __setitem__()
> convert string values into FileProxy() objects that have an appropriate
> __iadd__() method. ?That brings a whole new set of problems, of course.
> --
> Aahz (a... at pythoncraft.com) ? ? ? ? ? <*> ? ? ? ?http://www.pythoncraft.com/
>
> "I support family values -- Addams family values" --www.nancybuttons.com

I'm guessing you meant __getitem__, which is what Jan Kaliszewski
suggested, but as you noted, would be a bit cumbersome in this case.


From pierre.gaillard at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 03:41:57 2009
From: pierre.gaillard at gmail.com (Pierre)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 00:41:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: lambda functions
Message-ID: <5369eaa8-bcda-44e0-90c3-8972f2b1eb91@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I would like to know if it is possible to define a loop in a lambda
function....

How to manage the indents ? Example :
s_minus_1 = lambda s : for index in range(0, len(s)) : s[index] = s
[index]-1


Thanks !



From eric.brunel at pragmadev.com  Mon Aug 31 03:50:20 2009
From: eric.brunel at pragmadev.com (eb303)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 00:50:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: An assessment of Tkinter and IDLE
References: <55a0833d-3f1f-402a-8eb7-cb4b7861cce5@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	 
	
Message-ID: <7b4f243d-ac69-4351-aed7-924afb0b3b11@e18g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 28, 4:41 pm, r  wrote:
> Thanks eb303 for the wonderful post
>
> I have looked over the new ttk widgets and everything looks nice. I am
> very glad to see the death of Tix as i never much liked it anyhow and
> always believed these widgets should have been in the main Tkinter
> module to start with. The tree widget has been needed for some time.
>
> However, i am not sure about the new "style" separation. Previously a
> simple command like root.option_add('*Label.Font'...) accomplished the
> same thing with less typing, but there may be a future method to this
> current madness that i am unaware of...???

The new widgets have been made mainly to make tk look better by making
it possible to use native widgets. The drawback is that it limits a
lot the possibilities of configuration you can have: on many
platforms, the looks of the widgets are decided by the user via a
system preference, not by the application programmer. This is why ttk
widgets are not configurable directly, because 'native' styles usually
don't allow it at application level anyway.

Keep in mind that the new ttk widgets are not replacements for former
widgets, but an addition to them. 'Old' widgets are still here, and
there is no plan I know of to remove them. If you want to do an
application with a very specific look, you can still use these.


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Mon Aug 31 03:51:07 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 00:51:07 -0700
Subject: lambda functions
In-Reply-To: <5369eaa8-bcda-44e0-90c3-8972f2b1eb91@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
References: <5369eaa8-bcda-44e0-90c3-8972f2b1eb91@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908310051n3bbe87d7n9929f90231062daa@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 12:41 AM, Pierre wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I would like to know if it is possible to define a loop in a lambda
> function....

Not possible. Lambdas can only contain a single expression. A loop is
a block statement.
Just use a named function instead. There's nothing that can be done
with a lambda that can't be done with a named function instead.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From javier.collado at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 03:59:55 2009
From: javier.collado at gmail.com (Javier Collado)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 09:59:55 +0200
Subject: lambda functions
In-Reply-To: <5369eaa8-bcda-44e0-90c3-8972f2b1eb91@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
References: <5369eaa8-bcda-44e0-90c3-8972f2b1eb91@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Hello,

This page has some advice about how to avoid some of the lambda
functions limitations:
http://p-nand-q.com/python/stupid_lambda_tricks.html

In particular, it suggests to use map function instead of for loops.

Best regards,
    Javier

2009/8/31 Pierre :
> Hello,
>
> I would like to know if it is possible to define a loop in a lambda
> function....
>
> How to manage the indents ? Example :
> s_minus_1 = lambda s : for index in range(0, len(s)) : s[index] = s
> [index]-1
>
>
> Thanks !
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From deets at nospam.web.de  Mon Aug 31 04:08:39 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:08:39 +0200
Subject: initilize a memory zone in python
In-Reply-To: <18627379-8056-4ee9-b3b8-d5fd4cd0590c@y20g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<7g07ghF2ngfq1U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<18627379-8056-4ee9-b3b8-d5fd4cd0590c@y20g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7g1eo9F2neh1fU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Mug schrieb:
> On Aug 30, 8:58 pm, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
>> Mug schrieb:
>>
>>> hello, i'm new in python, i used to program in C,
>>> i have a small problem, i tryed to do some serial port things
>>> manipulation
>>> with python.
>>> i have something like:
>>> import sys,termios
>>> fd = sys.stdin.fileno()
>>> term_conf=termios.tcgetattr(fd);
>>> now i want to modify the actuall values in term_conf  zone to zero
>>> i don't see how to do it,
>>> in C we can do : bzero(&term_conf,sizeof(struct termios));
>>> i want to know if it exist a similar function in python, thanks
>> In python you don't modify memory like that.
>>
>> For the above function, you pass a value as the one you got to
>> tcgetattr, with values modified as you desire them.
> i tryed
> print term_conf
> and i saw that the term_conf is actually represent with an array in
> python:
> 
> zsh/3 4201 [1] % python test.py
> [27906, 5, 1215, 35387, 15, 15, ['\x03', '\x1c', '\x7f', '\x15',
> '\x04', '\x00', '\x01', '\xff', '\x11', '\x13', '\x1a', '\xff',
> '\x12', '\x0f', '\x17', '\x16', '\xff', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00',
> '\x00', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00',
> '\x00', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00']]
> 
> it's a array of 7 elements, with the seventh element it self a array,
> so in order to initialize them to zero, there's no other way than
> modify them
> one by one in a loop? is there a fonction like "memset" or "bzero" in
> python?

Again: no, there is no such function. But for the above, you'd easily write:

foo = [0] * 7 # only do this with immutables
foo[-1] = ['\x00'] * 16

alternatively, you modify the result you got from tcgetattr in the 
places you want.



Diez


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Mon Aug 31 04:16:39 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 05:16:39 -0300
Subject: lambda functions
References: <5369eaa8-bcda-44e0-90c3-8972f2b1eb91@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

En Mon, 31 Aug 2009 04:41:57 -0300, Pierre   
escribi?:

> I would like to know if it is possible to define a loop in a lambda
> function....
>
> How to manage the indents ? Example :
> s_minus_1 = lambda s : for index in range(0, len(s)) : s[index] = s
> [index]-1

You can't. lambda is just a way to define a short, inline, anonymous  
function, and its body can only contain expressions, not statements.

Even if what you want were legal, giving a name to the resulting  
expression kind of defeats the purpose of lambda - use a normal function  
instead:

def s_minus_1(s):
   "document usage here"
   for index,item in enumerate(s):
     s[index] -= 1

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Mon Aug 31 04:19:57 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:19:57 +0200
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
In-Reply-To: 
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	<3e9ddb9b-8f61-4d8d-a25c-7e95e8a25c06@g1g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <200908311019.58029.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Sunday 30 August 2009 22:46:49 Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

> 	Rather elitist viewpoint... Why don't we just drop nukes on some 60%
> of populated landmasses that don't have a "western" culture and avoid
> the whole problem?

Now yer talking, boyo!  It will surely help with the basic problem which is 
the heavy infestation of people on the planet!
:-)

- Hendrik



From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Mon Aug 31 04:43:07 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:43:07 +0200
Subject: map
In-Reply-To: <777de4d8-e591-4d21-bbd0-b286105895bc@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
References: <777de4d8-e591-4d21-bbd0-b286105895bc@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <200908311043.07827.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Monday 31 August 2009 06:55:52 elsa wrote:

8< --------- map question ----------------------------

>
> (Ultimately, I want to call myFunc(myList[0], 'booHoo'), myFunc(myList
> [1], 'booHoo'), myFunc(myList[2], 'booHoo') etc. However, I might want
> to call myFunc(myList[0], 'woo'), myFunc(myList[1], 'woo'), myFunc
> (myList[2], 'woo') some other time).

Here is some heretical advice:

Do not use stuff like map and reduce unless they fit what you want to do 
perfectly, and "JustWorks" the first time.

You have a very clear idea of what you want to do, so why do you not just 
simply write something to do it?

something like this (untested):

def woofer(thefunc,thelist,thething):
	theanswers = []
	for x in thelist:
		theanswers.append(thefunc(x,thething))
	return theanswers

And the advantage is that you do not have to remember what map does...

*ducks away from the inevitable flames*

- Hendrik


From pierre.gaillard at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 05:02:45 2009
From: pierre.gaillard at gmail.com (Pierre)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 02:02:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: rcond in numpy :
Message-ID: 


Hello,

Anyone knows the numpy equivalent of the matlab function : rcond
(Matrix reciprocal condition number estimate) ?

Thanks.


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Mon Aug 31 05:05:17 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 06:05:17 -0300
Subject: map
References: <777de4d8-e591-4d21-bbd0-b286105895bc@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<200908311043.07827.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
Message-ID: 

En Mon, 31 Aug 2009 05:43:07 -0300, Hendrik van Rooyen  
 escribi?:
> On Monday 31 August 2009 06:55:52 elsa wrote:
>
>> (Ultimately, I want to call myFunc(myList[0], 'booHoo'), myFunc(myList
>> [1], 'booHoo'), myFunc(myList[2], 'booHoo') etc. However, I might want
>> to call myFunc(myList[0], 'woo'), myFunc(myList[1], 'woo'), myFunc
>> (myList[2], 'woo') some other time).
>
> Here is some heretical advice:
>
> Do not use stuff like map and reduce unless they fit what you want to do
> perfectly, and "JustWorks" the first time.

I think of that advice as "orthodox", not "heretical"! (functional guys  
are minority here...)

> You have a very clear idea of what you want to do, so why do you not just
> simply write something to do it?
>
> something like this (untested):
>
> def woofer(thefunc,thelist,thething):
> 	theanswers = []
> 	for x in thelist:
> 		theanswers.append(thefunc(x,thething))
> 	return theanswers
>
> And the advantage is that you do not have to remember what map does...

This block:

	theanswers = []
	for x in thelist:
		theanswers.append(thefunc(x,thething))

is formally the same as this one:

	theanswers = [thefunc(x,thething) for x in thelist]

but the list comprehension is faster. So the function becomes:

def woofer(thefunc,thelist,thething):
	return [thefunc(x,thething) for x in thelist]

and may be inlined (it's usually easier to read).

> *ducks away from the inevitable flames*

*fights back to back with you against heretics*

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From piet at cs.uu.nl  Mon Aug 31 05:31:34 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 11:31:34 +0200
Subject: map
References: <777de4d8-e591-4d21-bbd0-b286105895bc@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Hendrik van Rooyen  (HvR) wrote:

>HvR> On Monday 31 August 2009 06:55:52 elsa wrote:
>HvR> 8< --------- map question ----------------------------

>>> 
>>> (Ultimately, I want to call myFunc(myList[0], 'booHoo'), myFunc(myList
>>> [1], 'booHoo'), myFunc(myList[2], 'booHoo') etc. However, I might want
>>> to call myFunc(myList[0], 'woo'), myFunc(myList[1], 'woo'), myFunc
>>> (myList[2], 'woo') some other time).

>HvR> Here is some heretical advice:

>HvR> Do not use stuff like map and reduce unless they fit what you want to do 
>HvR> perfectly, and "JustWorks" the first time.

>HvR> You have a very clear idea of what you want to do, so why do you not just 
>HvR> simply write something to do it?

>HvR> something like this (untested):

>HvR> def woofer(thefunc,thelist,thething):
>HvR> 	theanswers = []
>HvR> 	for x in thelist:
>HvR> 		theanswers.append(thefunc(x,thething))
>HvR> 	return theanswers

>HvR> And the advantage is that you do not have to remember what map does...

Map should be in every good programmer's toolbox. So (s)he presumably
knows already what map does. In order to follow your advise (s)he must
first forget what map does :=)

Agreed on the part that map shouldn't be used indiscriminately. Neither
should loops. Your woofer is much harder to follow than map, I think.

[myFunc(elt, 'booHoo') for elt in myList] is also a good candidate and
in this case I think it is preferable to both the loop and the map with
a partial or lambda in terms of clarity.

On the other hand when you just want to call a function on each element
of a list and you don't need to collect the result a simple loop is
often preferable.

But ultimately it is also very much a matter of taste, preference and habit.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From jacopo.pecci at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 05:44:23 2009
From: jacopo.pecci at gmail.com (jacopo)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 02:44:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: starting a client remotely
Message-ID: <7013f2ee-3076-4abf-b609-18c023d3e28a@f33g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>

I am playing with multiprocessing and I would like to have a python
script on one machine which initialize my whole system, in other
words, this script should start the server (a python script) on my
local machine and the clients (python scripts) on the other machines
in my local network.

Would you have any suggestion?

regards, jacopo


From deets at nospam.web.de  Mon Aug 31 05:47:44 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 11:47:44 +0200
Subject: starting a client remotely
References: <7013f2ee-3076-4abf-b609-18c023d3e28a@f33g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7g1ki0F2nifhkU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

jacopo wrote:

> I am playing with multiprocessing and I would like to have a python
> script on one machine which initialize my whole system, in other
> words, this script should start the server (a python script) on my
> local machine and the clients (python scripts) on the other machines
> in my local network.
> 
> Would you have any suggestion?

This isn't possible witout some kind of service running on the remote
machine. You don't write what OS you are using, on unix'ish machines this
can be easily accomplished using SSH to invoke a remote-command that starts
your server. I've used that + Pyro in the past to create distributed
systems.

Diez


From jacopo.pecci at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 05:58:34 2009
From: jacopo.pecci at gmail.com (jacopo)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 02:58:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Return value of multiprocessing manager registerred function
References: <4337084f-cf9b-4b9c-a0cc-ba8f0821f31a@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Hi Terry,
I have just started working on similar things and I am strugling to
find examples or documentations. So far I have found only the official
documentation of the multiprocessing package. Would you be able to
recommend me some good reference or a book. I dont want to overwhelm
this newsgroup with questions... yet :)
Regards, Jacopo

On Aug 26, 4:22?am, Terry  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm using the multiprocessing.manager to run proceduresremotely. It
> all worked fine except I hope to have a different return value type.
>
> The remote function calls always return a proxy, which when I need to
> get the value it need to connect to the manager again to fetch it. But
> I just need the value, not the proxy.
>
> Can I just return the value instead of a proxy from a manager?
>
> br, Terry



From paul at boddie.org.uk  Mon Aug 31 06:00:58 2009
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 03:00:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	 
	
	
	 
	 
	<1ab2c088-bead-43fa-bf4a-3e7f4d84e871@g1g2000vbr.googlegroups.com> 
	<59cad1ba-1162-4227-9375-d132ef030a7b@d21g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5a3acf8a-0f5f-4743-a477-f5dc2978d4ed@r36g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>

On 31 Aug, 00:28, r  wrote:
>
> I said it before and i will say it again. I DON"T CARE WHAT LANGUAGE
> WE USE AS LONG AS IT IS A MODERN LANGUAGE FOUNDED ON IDEALS OF
> SIMPLICITY!!!!

[Esperanto]

> English is by far already the de-facto lingua franca throughout the
> world.

You don't care, but here it comes: English! And is it a language
"founded on ideals of simplicity"? I suggest you familiarise yourself
with the history of the English language.

[...]

> You can deny the holocaust all you want but it still happened and so
> too shall the great unity! Sadly because of cultural and social
> fanatics like yourself, it will probably take another great war to
> usher in the new order.

Now you are just being offensive.

[...]

> So you are advocating for me to use derogatory statements in my post,
> no thanks i need not resort to adolescent rants to argue my points.

So what was the bulk of your opening message in this thread or the
kind of gutter remarks made above if not "adolescent rants"?

> And why do you continue to compare me to XL. Has XL *ever* helped a
> python user in this forum? I have, many times. I am *actually* a
> python programmer who cares about Python and my posts bring much vigor
> and intelligence to an otherwise boring NG -- like me or not.

Whether you actually care about Python or not, I repeat my suggestion
that you take rants of this nature out of this forum and to a more
appropriate place. At the very time the community seeks to increase
diversity, such material is not only insensitive towards those who do
not share your own cultural and political background, it also
demonstrates a total lack of awareness of the kind of community people
are trying to build and sustain.

And don't give us the "livening up the newsgroup" excuse. The only
reason people use newsgroups like this for their political posturing
is analogous to a football player bursting into a chess club and
claiming superiority in his own sport over those whose pastime has
been interrupted: he knows that in a more suitable venue, his
inadequacy would quickly be revealed by active practitioners of the
discipline. Take your material elsewhere - maybe then the historians,
linguists and sociologists will give you the tuition you so richly
deserve!

Paul


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Mon Aug 31 06:04:01 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 12:04:01 +0200
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
References: 
	
	
	
	<0022fef9$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<725bcd4c-01ed-489d-baa4-288a5c492831@m20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Derek Martin  (DM) wrote:

>DM> On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 03:42:06AM -0700, Paul McGuire wrote:

>>> Is it any odder that 3 is an object than that the string literal
>>> "Hello, World!" is an object?  

>DM> Yes.  Because 3 is a fundamental bit of data that the hardware knows
>DM> how to deal with, requiring no higher level abstractions for the
>DM> programmer to use it (though certainly, a programming language can
>DM> provide them, if it is convenient).  "Hello, World!" is not.  They are
>DM> fundamentally different in that way.

How the semantics of Python is defined is not dependent of the hardware.
You could imagine a computer where strings are as much built into the
hardware as ints are. On the other hand you could also imagine a
computer that only knows about bits and where int arithmetic has to be
done in software. In fact early microprocessors only could operate
directly on bytes and arithmetic of larger ints was in software. And
even nowadays there are processors in use that don't have built-in
floating point hardware. Would you say that considering whether 3.14 is
an object in Python or whether that is to be considered strange should
depend on the availability of a floating point unit in the hardware
where the program runs? Would that make floating point numbers
"fundamentally different" from ints in the sense described above?
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From jacopo.pecci at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 06:08:04 2009
From: jacopo.pecci at gmail.com (jacopo)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 03:08:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: starting a client remotely
References: <7013f2ee-3076-4abf-b609-18c023d3e28a@f33g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<7g1ki0F2nifhkU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <7a3cbeba-7338-45b3-aff8-7840a322b185@r33g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>

thank you Diez,
unfortunatelly I am on Windows NT.
Did you use SSH in a python script?
Isn't multiprocessing.managers already doing something like Pyro?


thanks
Jacopo


On Aug 31, 12:47?pm, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
> jacopo wrote:
> > I am playing with multiprocessing and I would like to have a python
> > script on one machine which initialize my whole system, in other
> > words, this script should start the server (a python script) on my
> > local machine and the clients (python scripts) on the other machines
> > in my local network.
>
> > Would you have any suggestion?
>
> This isn't possible witout some kind of service running on the remote
> machine. You don't write what OS you are using, on unix'ish machines this
> can be easily accomplished using SSH to invoke a remote-command that starts
> your server. I've used that + Pyro in the past to create distributed
> systems.
>
> Diez



From xi at gamma.dn.ua  Mon Aug 31 06:14:18 2009
From: xi at gamma.dn.ua (Kirill Simonov)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 13:14:18 +0300
Subject: [ANN] PyYAML-3.09: YAML parser and emitter for Python
Message-ID: <4A9BA27A.10507@gamma.dn.ua>

========================
  Announcing PyYAML-3.09
========================

A new bug fix release of PyYAML is now available:

     http://pyyaml.org/wiki/PyYAML

Note that PyYAML supports both Python 2 and Python 3.  For
compatibility notes, please see

     http://pyyaml.org/wiki/PyYAMLDocumentation#Python3support


Changes
=======

* Fixed compatibility issues with Python 3.1.
* Fixed use of uninitialized memory when emitting anchors with
   LibYAML bindings (Thank to cegner(at)yahoo-inc(dot)com).
* Fixed emitting incorrect BOM characters for UTF-16 (Thank to
   Valentin Nechayev)
* Fixed the emitter for folded scalars not respecting the preferred
   line width (Thank to Ingy).
* Fixed a subtle ordering issue with emitting '%TAG' directives
   (Thank to Andrey Somov).
* Fixed performance regression with LibYAML bindings.


Resources
=========

PyYAML homepage: http://pyyaml.org/wiki/PyYAML
PyYAML documentation: http://pyyaml.org/wiki/PyYAMLDocumentation

TAR.GZ package: http://pyyaml.org/download/pyyaml/PyYAML-3.09.tar.gz
ZIP package: http://pyyaml.org/download/pyyaml/PyYAML-3.09.zip
Windows installers:
     http://pyyaml.org/download/pyyaml/PyYAML-3.09.win32-py2.3.exe
     http://pyyaml.org/download/pyyaml/PyYAML-3.09.win32-py2.4.exe
     http://pyyaml.org/download/pyyaml/PyYAML-3.09.win32-py2.5.exe
     http://pyyaml.org/download/pyyaml/PyYAML-3.09.win32-py2.6.exe
     http://pyyaml.org/download/pyyaml/PyYAML-3.09.win32-py3.0.exe
     http://pyyaml.org/download/pyyaml/PyYAML-3.09.win32-py3.1.exe

PyYAML SVN repository: http://svn.pyyaml.org/pyyaml
Submit a bug report: http://pyyaml.org/newticket?component=pyyaml

YAML homepage: http://yaml.org/
YAML-core mailing list: 
http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/yaml-core


About PyYAML
============

YAML is a data serialization format designed for human readability and
interaction with scripting languages.  PyYAML is a YAML parser and
emitter for Python.

PyYAML features a complete YAML 1.1 parser, Unicode support, pickle
support, capable extension API, and sensible error messages.  PyYAML
supports standard YAML tags and provides Python-specific tags that allow
to represent an arbitrary Python object.

PyYAML is applicable for a broad range of tasks from complex
configuration files to object serialization and persistance.


Example
=======

 >>> import yaml

 >>> yaml.load("""
... name: PyYAML
... description: YAML parser and emitter for Python
... homepage: http://pyyaml.org/wiki/PyYAML
... keywords: [YAML, serialization, configuration, persistance, pickle]
... """)
{'keywords': ['YAML', 'serialization', 'configuration', 'persistance',
'pickle'], 'homepage': 'http://pyyaml.org/wiki/PyYAML', 'description':
'YAML parser and emitter for Python', 'name': 'PyYAML'}

 >>> print yaml.dump(_)
name: PyYAML
homepage: http://pyyaml.org/wiki/PyYAML
description: YAML parser and emitter for Python
keywords: [YAML, serialization, configuration, persistance, pickle]


Copyright
=========

The PyYAML module is written by Kirill Simonov .

PyYAML is released under the MIT license.


From deets at nospam.web.de  Mon Aug 31 06:35:44 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 12:35:44 +0200
Subject: starting a client remotely
References: <7013f2ee-3076-4abf-b609-18c023d3e28a@f33g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<7g1ki0F2nifhkU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<7a3cbeba-7338-45b3-aff8-7840a322b185@r33g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7g1nc0F2mjpocU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

jacopo wrote:

> thank you Diez,
> unfortunatelly I am on Windows NT.
> Did you use SSH in a python script?

Via subprocess, yes. Paramiko would be a way, too.

> Isn't multiprocessing.managers already doing something like Pyro?

I never used it, so I don't know - but it appears to be, yes. Doesn't change
the overall problem though - without an inroad to another server, you can't
spawn processes on remote machines.

Diez


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Mon Aug 31 06:46:06 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 07:46:06 -0300
Subject: starting a client remotely
References: <7013f2ee-3076-4abf-b609-18c023d3e28a@f33g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<7g1ki0F2nifhkU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<7a3cbeba-7338-45b3-aff8-7840a322b185@r33g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

> On Aug 31, 12:47?pm, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
>> jacopo wrote:
>> > I am playing with multiprocessing and I would like to have a python
>> > script on one machine which initialize my whole system, in other
>> > words, this script should start the server (a python script) on my
>> > local machine and the clients (python scripts) on the other machines
>> > in my local network.

En Mon, 31 Aug 2009 07:08:04 -0300, jacopo   
escribi?:

> thank you Diez,
> unfortunatelly I am on Windows NT.

NT 4.0???
I was going to say "use the rexec command" but I think it's posterior to  
the Triasic-Jurasic extinction event :)

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Mon Aug 31 07:25:12 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 13:25:12 +0200
Subject: Object's nesting scope
In-Reply-To: <440b8caf-27f9-49d4-8d1b-94f93c75eb23@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<7fkqodF2llnghU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<1ea2a98f-4035-4ec6-b5a9-06b21dd6f584@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4a97c851$0$307$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<440b8caf-27f9-49d4-8d1b-94f93c75eb23@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a9bb2ee$0$10244$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

zaur a ?crit :
> On 28 ???, 16:07, Bruno Desthuilliers  42.desthuilli... at websiteburo.invalid> wrote:
>> zaur a ?crit :
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 26 ???, 17:13, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
>>>> Whom am we to judge? Sure if you propose this, you have some usecases in
>>>> mind - how about you present these
>>> Ok. Here is a use case: object initialization.
>>> For example,
>>> person = Person():
>>>   name = "john"
>>>   age = 30
>>>   address = Address():
>>>      street = "Green Street"
>>>      no = 12
>>> vs.
>>> person = Person()
>>> person.name = "john"
>>> person.age = 30
>>> address = person.address = Address()
>>> address.street = "Green Street"
>>> address.no = 12

>> Err... Looks like you really should read the FineManual(tm) -
>> specifically, the parts on the __init__ method.
>>
>> class Person(object):
>>     def __init__(self, name, age, address):
>>         self.name = name
>>         self.age = age
>>         self.address = address
>>
>> class Address(object):
>>     def __init__(self, street, no):
>>         self.no = no
>>         self.street = street
>>
>> person = Person(
>>     name="john",
>>     age=30,
>>     address = Address(
>>         street="Green Street",
>>         no=12
>>     )
>> )
> 
> What are you doing if 1) classes Person and Address imported from
> foreign module 2) __init__ method is not defined as you want?

Either 1/write an alternate initializer and bind it to the appropriate 
classes or 2/write factory functions:

1/

from foreign_module import Person, Address

def my_init(self, **kw):
     for k, v in kw.items():
         setattr(self, k, v)
     return self

Person.init = my_init
Address.init = my_init

person = Person().init(
      name="john",
      age=30,
      address = Address().init(
          street="Green Street",
          no=12
      )
  )


2/

from functools import partial
import foreign_module

def my_factory(cls, **kw):
     obj = cls()
     for k, v in kw.items():
         setattr(obj, k, v)
     return obj

Person = partial(my_factory, foreign_module.Person)
Address = partial(my_factory, foreign_module.Address)

person = Person(
      name="john",
      age=30,
      address = Address(
          street="Green Street",
          no=12
      )
  )



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Mon Aug 31 08:16:57 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 31 Aug 2009 12:16:57 GMT
Subject: map
References: <777de4d8-e591-4d21-bbd0-b286105895bc@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <002542bb$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:43:07 +0200, Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:

> Here is some heretical advice:
> 
> Do not use stuff like map and reduce unless they fit what you want to do
> perfectly, and "JustWorks" the first time.
> 
> You have a very clear idea of what you want to do, so why do you not
> just simply write something to do it?

That's not heretical advice -- that's pretty standard, vanilla, boring 
advice. It's probably good advice, if you care more about Getting the Job 
Done than about learning the language.


> And the advantage is that you do not have to remember what map does...

map() is probably the simplest, most straightforward of the functional 
tools in Python. It's harder for me to remember it's name than to 
remember what it does: it applies a function to each element of a list, 
instead of two the entire list as a single argument. Easy-peasy.

> *ducks away from the inevitable flames*

You'll have to try harder than that to get flamed :)



-- 
Steven


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Mon Aug 31 09:44:30 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 15:44:30 +0200
Subject: map
In-Reply-To: 
References: <777de4d8-e591-4d21-bbd0-b286105895bc@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <200908311544.30746.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Monday 31 August 2009 11:31:34 Piet van Oostrum wrote:

> But ultimately it is also very much a matter of taste, preference and
> habit.

This is true, but there is another reason that I posted - I have noticed that 
there seems to be a tendency amongst newcomers to the group to go to great 
lengths to find something that will do exactly what they want, irrespective 
of the inherent complexity or lack thereof of that which they are trying to 
do.

Now I cannot understand why this is - one could say that it is caused by an 
eagerness to understand all the corners of the tool that is python, but 
somehow it does not feel like that to me - I see it almost as a crisis of 
confidence - as if the newbie lacks the self confidence to believe that he or 
she is capable of doing anything independently.  

So whenever I can, I try to encourage people to just do it their way, and to 
see what happens, and to hack using the interactive interpreter, to build 
confidence by experimenting and making mistakes, and realizing that when you 
have made a mistake, it is not the end of the world,  - you can fix it and 
move on.

Don't know if this rant makes any sense...

- Hendrik



From kw at codebykevin.com  Mon Aug 31 09:52:13 2009
From: kw at codebykevin.com (Kevin Walzer)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 09:52:13 -0400
Subject: An assessment of Tkinter and IDLE
In-Reply-To: <827effaa-d0f7-4142-b4b9-6f9f8e0e7963@e34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
References: <55a0833d-3f1f-402a-8eb7-cb4b7861cce5@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	
	<1010dd16-fa92-46b6-8391-b8a701704472@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	
	<827effaa-d0f7-4142-b4b9-6f9f8e0e7963@e34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A9BD58D.3060808@codebykevin.com>

On 8/28/09 8:11 PM, r wrote:
> On Aug 28, 5:48 pm, Mark Roseman  wrote:
> (snip)
>> Thewww.tkdocs.comsite is 'language neutral' - currently the tutorial
>> covers Tcl, Perl, Ruby and yes Python, and allows you to switch between
>> any of those languages (or show all of them).
>
> True, however the coverage is incomplete. I would back this site if we
> can get a complete coverage of all widgets in the Python language.
>
> +0.1

Are you certain the site is incomplete? Its coverage of the basic Tk and 
Ttk  widgets is spectacular. . Its coverage of layout techinques and 
best practices for organizing complex interfaces with Tk is also 
extremely valuable. I wish this site had been around when I was learning 
Tk five years ago. I've looked at just about every Tk and Tkinter 
tutorial site out there, and this one surpasses them all. Mark 
Roseman--a professional, independent software developer whose commercial 
products almost all incorporate Tk into their GUI's--has spent a couple 
of years putting together this site with input from various users and 
developers (myself included). It's now an absolutely indispensible 
resource for beginners and more experienced developers.

The reason the site does not cover 'all widgets in the Python language' 
is threefold:

1. It's a site about Tk, a tookit that has Python bindings and bindings 
to other languages also (Ruby, Perl, Tcl, etc.).
2. It omits additional Python-specific, Tkinter-based widget sets such 
as PMW, Tix, etc. because once you understand the basics of Tk, then 
grokking these other megawidget sets (which all build on top of Tk) 
should be pretty straightforward.
3. Finally, 'all widgets in the Python language' gets into other tookits 
as well, which is obviously unfeasible for a website.

If the site by itself isn't enough for you, or is a bit too basic in its 
coverage of Python techniques, then there are other options. Couple the 
TkDocs site with effbot's more advanced walk through the various Tkinter 
classes, and perhaps one or two of the other Tkinter-specific tutorials, 
and you'll have learned a lot. But I think the TkDocs site is essential, 
especially in its more advanced discussion of how to put together an 
attractive, polished user interface with Tk. Tk has a long-standing 
reputation of being the toolkit of choice for quick, simple, ugly 
interfaces, and the other resources I've mentioned do nothing to to 
change this. The practices that Mark Roseman discusses will allow one to 
eventually put together a UI that matches anything that the other big 
toolkits (wxPython, PyQt, PyObjC, PyGtk, etc.) can do.

Hope this helps,
Kevin

-- 
Kevin Walzer
Code by Kevin
http://www.codebykevin.com


From xahlee at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 10:00:43 2009
From: xahlee at gmail.com (Xah Lee)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 07:00:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?Math_Notations=2C_Computer_Languages=2C_and_the_=93Form?=
	=?windows-1252?Q?=94_in_Formalism?=
Message-ID: <8f621b1f-a259-44dd-a6c4-231fa708ace7@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

? Math Notations, Computer Languages, and the ?Form? in Formalism
  http://xahlee.org/cmaci/notation/index.html

plain text version follows. (lacks links)

-----------------------------
Math Notations, Computer Languages, and the ?Form? in Formalism

Xah Lee, 2009-08-31

This page is a collection of essays and expositions on the subjects of
nomenclature and notations in math and computer languages, in the
context of facilitating human communication and theorem proving
systems.

Most of these essays here are originally from email, blogs, or rants.
They are not of publication quality, and they are not a coherent
exposition the subject. Here's a very brief summary of of these
essays's central thesis:

? Traditional math notations are very inconsistent. Edsger Dijkstra is
a leader in a movement of what's called Calculational Proofs. That is,
using a notation that is consistent and facilitates the calculation
aspects when doing math by humans.

? Today, especially since 1990s, tremendous advances are made in
computer algebra systems and theorem proving systems. In these
languages, a coherent syntax, grammar, are needed for math
expressions.

? In computer algebra or theorem proving systems, they are intimately
tied to the math philosophies of formalism and logicism. In a sense,
formalism and logicism today are tied together as a single subject,
and using computer languages as foundation.

? Math expressions/syntax in computer languages are intimately tied to
math notations for human reading. (e.g. Mathematical, MathML are
technologies that combine the two.)

? The syntax and grammar of today's computer languages, such as Java,
C, Python, SQL, Lisp, are ad-hoc and their communities have little
understanding of the knowledge gained in math related fields such as
computer algebra or theorem proving languages. (This applies to
functional langs such as Haskell as well, but to a lesser degree.) On
the other hand, mathematicians in general are illiterate about
programing or using computer languages.

All of the above considered together, computer language designers and
mathematicians, should be made aware of these issues, so that when
they design or use computer languages, may it be math oriented or not,
the language's syntax and grammar can move towards a consistent syntax
system with solid foundation (as opposed to ad-hoc), and such language
should have build-in markup or simple mapping to 2-dimensional
notations for human reading (such as done with Mathematica or Semantic
MathML), and this computer language should be in fact as a basis of
theorem prover or computer algebra system (as in OCaml, Haskell,
Mathematica). The languages of computer algebra and theorem prover
would in fact merge together into one single subject if it is not
already slowly happening today.

Progress in the above issues are made in different fields but there
are little unification going on.

For example, there's Edsger Dijkstra's Calculational Proofs movement.
It improves math notations towards consistency and formalism. However,
people in Calculational Proofs movement are mostly math pedagogy
community i think. They are not programers interested in computer
languages, nor logicians interested in math formalism, or industrial
and commercial organizations interested in math notation
representation systems.

There's the computer algebra community, such as Mathematica, Maple,
Matlab, which requires a syntax and grammar for mathematical concepts.
There's the theorem proving community, such as OCaml, Coq, HOL, which
not only requires a syntax for math concepts, but also made major
understanding about math as a system of forms, i.e. formal systems.
Both computer algebra and theorem proving systems require math
notations and computer language syntax that are consistent and can
represent math concepts. However, the 2 camps are largely separate
communities. For example, there is as far as i know no tool that is
both a practical computer algebra system as well as a theorem proving
language.

Common computer languages, such as C, Java, Python, requires a good
syntax, parsers, and compilers, but their community, including
computer scientists and programers, are usually illiterate in typical
topics of of mathematics proper. Functional languages, such as Scheme
Lisp, APL, OCaml, Haskell, are more based on logic foundations (lambda
calculus) but their syntax and grammar has little to do with the math
notations as a logic or formal system. (these languages do not have a
formal spec in the sense of Formlism, i.e. transformation of forms. In
fact, almost no languages has a formal spec, formalism or not.)

There's math notation representation needs, such as TeX, MathCAD,
MathML, Mathematica. These are typically commercial organizations in
the computing industry. They can render math notations. In the case of
MathML and Mathematica, the language also represent the semantic
content of math notations. These two made major understanding about
the relation of math notations and computer languages, but they in
general have little to do with formalism or theorem proving. (with
some exception of Mathematica)

Calculational proof notational system, Computer algebra systems,
theorem prover languages, formalism and logicism as foundation of
mathematics, functional languages, and computer languages in general,
mathematics and its notations, all are in fact can be considered as a
single subject with a unified goal. All the technologies and movements
exist, but today they have mostly not come together. For example,
Microsoft Equaton Editor, TeX, and various other tools does well with
math notation rendering. MathML has both representational and semantic
aspects (OpenMath is a new group that focus on semantic aspects), for
the purpose of rendering as well semantic representation. Mathematica
is a computer algebra system for solving arbitrary math equations,
that is also able to represent math notation as a computer language,
so that computation can be done with math notation directly. However,
the system lacks a foundation as a theorem prover. Theorem provers
such as OCaml (HOL, Coq), Mizar does math formalism as a foundation,
also function as a generic computer language, but lacks abilities as a
computer algebra system or math notation representation.

Notations

    * The Codification of Mathematics
    * State Of Theorem Proving Systems 2008
    * The Problems of Traditional Math Notation

    * A Notation for Plane Geometry

    * the Moronicity of the Expositions of Common Mathematicians
(rant)

    * Fundamental Problems of Lisp (see section 1, on the importance
for regularity of syntax)
    * The Concepts and Confusions of Prefix, Infix, Postfix and Fully
Functional Notations
    * The Moronicities of Typography

Jargons

Math

    * Math Terminology and Naming of Things
    * Math Jargons Explained
    * Politics and the English Language, 1946, by George Orwell.

Harm Of Bad Terminologies In Computing Languages

    * The Importance of Terminology's Quality In A Computer Language
    * What are OOP's Jargons and Complexities?
    * Java's Abuse of the Jargon ?Interface? and API
    * Jargons of Info Tech Industry
    * The Term Currying In Computer Science
    * Function Application is not Currying
    * Why You should Not Use The Jargon Lisp1 and Lisp2
    * The Jargon ?Tail Recursion?
    * What Is Closure In A Programing Language
    * Jargons And High Level Languages (unpolished essay)
    * Why You Should Avoid The Jargon ?Tail Recursion?
    * I Can Not Find A Word Better Than ?CAR?

Harm of Mixing Concept of Syntax and Formatting

    * The TeX Pestilence
    * The Harm of hard-wrapping Lines (harm of confusing syntax with
formatting)
    * Tabs versus Spaces in Source Code (harm of treating syntax as
formatting instead of syntax)

Applications of Regular Syntax

    * A Text Editor Feature: Syntax Tree Walk (application of syntax)
    * A Simple Lisp Code Formatter (application of syntax regularity)

References

    * ?Mathematica Notation: Past and Future? (2000-10-20), by Stephen
Wolfram, at http://www.stephenwolfram.com/publications/recent/mathml/index.html.
    * Functional Mathematics, by Raymond Boute, 2006. http://www.funmath.be/
    * Formalized Mathematics, by John Harrison, 1996-08-13.
http://www.rbjones.com/rbjpub/logic/jrh0100.htm
    * ?How Computing Science created a new mathematical style?. (1990)
By Edsger W Dijkstra. EWD1073
    * ?Under the spell of Leibniz's dream? (2000) By Edsger W
Dijkstra. EWD1298
    * Abuse of notation
    * Formal system


From nitebirdz at sacredchaos.com  Mon Aug 31 10:21:11 2009
From: nitebirdz at sacredchaos.com (Nitebirdz)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 16:21:11 +0200
Subject: Suggestion
In-Reply-To: <7aa29e790908290212h17d27593u52d1a90b3e785386@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7aa29e790908290212h17d27593u52d1a90b3e785386@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090831142109.GA7611@sevilla.sacredchaos.com>

On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 02:42:36PM +0530, Thangappan.M wrote:
> Dear all,
> 
>          I am in the process of learning Python programming language. I know
> Perl,PHP. Compare to both the language Python impressed me because here
> there is no lexical variables and all.Now I need suggestion saying that ,
> What online book can I follow?
> 
>          I have not yet learnt any advanced programming stuffs in Python.
> Please suggest some book? or tutorial. net net my goal is that I will be
> able to do the project in any languages(Python,Perl,PHP).So I need to learn
> more depth knowledge of Python.
> 
> So Please help me?
> 

Thangappan,


I'm no expert, but perhaps the following book will be of some help:

http://diveintopython.org/


There are plenty of tutorials on the web too.  Just do a quick search
for something like "python tutorial".  




From wiggly at wiggly.org  Mon Aug 31 10:36:46 2009
From: wiggly at wiggly.org (Nigel Rantor)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 15:36:46 +0100
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
In-Reply-To: <200908311019.58029.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>	<3e9ddb9b-8f61-4d8d-a25c-7e95e8a25c06@g1g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>	
	<200908311019.58029.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
Message-ID: <4A9BDFFE.2040402@wiggly.org>

Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:
> On Sunday 30 August 2009 22:46:49 Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> 
>> 	Rather elitist viewpoint... Why don't we just drop nukes on some 60%
>> of populated landmasses that don't have a "western" culture and avoid
>> the whole problem?
> 
> Now yer talking, boyo!  It will surely help with the basic problem which is 
> the heavy infestation of people on the planet!
> :-)


On two conditions:

1) We drop some "test" bombs on Slough to satisfy Betjeman.

2) We strap both Xah and r to aforementioned bombs.



Also, I'm surprised no-one has mentioned Esperanto yet. Sounds like 
something r and Xah would *love*.

Slightly off-topic - does anyone have a good recipe for getting 
thunderbird to kill whole threads for good? Either based on a rule or 
just some extension I can use?

The Xah/r threads are like car crashes, I can't help but watch but my 
time could be better spent and I don't want to unsub the whole list.


Cheers,

   n


From nitebirdz at sacredchaos.com  Mon Aug 31 10:40:50 2009
From: nitebirdz at sacredchaos.com (Nitebirdz)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 16:40:50 +0200
Subject: a popen command line question
In-Reply-To: <964997.10840.qm@web36907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <964997.10840.qm@web36907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090831144049.GB7611@sevilla.sacredchaos.com>

On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 01:13:12PM -0700, Joni Lee wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I write a small script
> 
> status = os.popen('top').readlines()
> print status
> 
> It calls the command line "top" and will print out the status.
> But I have to press the keyboard "q" to quit "top", then the status
> will be printed, otherwise it just stands by with blank.
> 
> Question is. Do you know how to give "q" into my python script so that
> "top" is automatically quit immediately or maybe after 1s (for
> gathering information)
> 

Why not run the actual 'top' command in batch mode with only one
iteration?  It's in the man page.  I'm referring to this:

  status = os.popen('top -b -n 1').readlines()


Also, the following approach seems to display a nicer output:

-------------------------------------------------
#!/usr/bin/env python

import os

status=os.popen('top -b -n 1')
for i in status.readlines():
  print i
-------------------------------------------------


Or how about the following?

-------------------------------------------------
#!/usr/bin/env python

import commands

status=commands.getoutput('top -b -n 1')
print status
-------------------------------------------------


Mind you, I'm just suggesting different approaches.  I'm new to Python
and don't necessarily know what I'm doing.  Other more experienced
people may be able to suggest something better.




From kyosohma at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 10:53:27 2009
From: kyosohma at gmail.com (Mike Driscoll)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 07:53:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: IDE for Python
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 29, 1:08?pm, ivanko.... at gmail.com wrote:
> 29.08.2009 4:14 ???????????? "Thangappan.M"  ?
> ???????:
>
> > Dear all,
> > Please suggest some good IDE for python.I am working in linux platform.
> > --
> > Regards,
> > Thangappan.M
>
> You can use Eclipse + PyDev or Emacs+PythonMode . Also there are Anjuta and ?
> Code:Blocks, but they are designed mainly for C++ (but still can be used).

Don't forget Wingware IDE. Admittedly, it's not free (except for a
limited version), but it's pretty good. There's also SPE (Stani's
Python Editor). If you want a nigh-complete list, check the Python
wiki:

http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonEditors

-------------------
Mike Driscoll

Blog:   http://blog.pythonlibrary.org



From cmpython at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 11:32:19 2009
From: cmpython at gmail.com (Che M)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 08:32:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: IDE for Python
References:  
	
Message-ID: <0f5f01d3-220e-4ef8-b55b-0f88f58a0afd@b18g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 31, 10:53?am, Mike Driscoll  wrote:
> On Aug 29, 1:08?pm, ivanko.... at gmail.com wrote:
>
> > 29.08.2009 4:14 ???????????? "Thangappan.M"  ?
> > ???????:
>
> > > Dear all,
> > > Please suggest some good IDE for python.I am working in linux platform.
> > > --
> > > Regards,
> > > Thangappan.M
>
> > You can use Eclipse + PyDev or Emacs+PythonMode . Also there are Anjuta and ?
> > Code:Blocks, but they are designed mainly for C++ (but still can be used).
>
> Don't forget Wingware IDE. Admittedly, it's not free (except for a
> limited version), but it's pretty good. There's also SPE (Stani's
> Python Editor). If you want a nigh-complete list, check the Python
> wiki:
>
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonEditors

Not sure when an editor gets to be called an IDE, but while on the
site
that OP should check out this related page:

http://wiki.python.org/moin/IntegratedDevelopmentEnvironments



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Aug 31 11:36:03 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 11:36:03 -0400
Subject: An assessment of Tkinter and IDLE
In-Reply-To: <4A9BD58D.3060808@codebykevin.com>
References: <55a0833d-3f1f-402a-8eb7-cb4b7861cce5@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>		<1010dd16-fa92-46b6-8391-b8a701704472@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>		<827effaa-d0f7-4142-b4b9-6f9f8e0e7963@e34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<4A9BD58D.3060808@codebykevin.com>
Message-ID: 

Kevin Walzer wrote:
www.tkdocs.com

[snip]

> and you'll have learned a lot. But I think the TkDocs site is essential, 
> especially in its more advanced discussion of how to put together an 
> attractive, polished user interface with Tk. Tk has a long-standing 
> reputation of being the toolkit of choice for quick, simple, ugly 
> interfaces, and the other resources I've mentioned do nothing to to 
> change this. The practices that Mark Roseman discusses will allow one to 
> eventually put together a UI that matches anything that the other big 
> toolkits (wxPython, PyQt, PyObjC, PyGtk, etc.) can do.
> 
> Hope this helps,

It persuaded me to go and start reading. A couple of things of interest.

"It would be a great help if you could have a look around, provide any 
comments, corrections or suggestions, or even help fill in some of the 
missing pieces. "

so no pretense of completeness yet.

"In the near future, the plan is to continue refining the tutorial, 
mainly finishing up the rest of the Perl and Python examples."

And from the linked blog

"July 09, 2009
Python material in progress.

While not yet complete, I've managed to add a very hefty chunk of Python 
material to the tutorial. I should be able to complete the rest over the 
next week or so. Would definitely appreciate feedback from any 
Pythonistas on the existing material.

While I hadn't used it before, I think Tkinter may very well be the 
nicest interface to Tk next to Tcl's (for which Tk was originally 
designed of course, so you'd expect a bit of an advantage). For people 
unfamiliar with either language, I think Python's more conventional use 
of parentheses for functions, the "option=value" syntax, plus other 
language features it takes advantage of are very attractive and win out 
over Tcl. The two main parts that I think Tcl does in a nicer way are 
event bindings and the fact you can create and geometry manage a widget 
in one statement, while still keeping a handle to a widget around.

UPDATE July 17/2009: Most of the rest of the Python examples and code 
snippets have been added.
"

tjr



From http  Mon Aug 31 11:46:42 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 31 Aug 2009 08:46:42 -0700
Subject: map
References: <777de4d8-e591-4d21-bbd0-b286105895bc@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xzl9gkmu5.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

elsa  writes:
> map(myFunc(b='booHoo'), myList)
> 
> Why doesn't this work? is there a way to make it work?

You can use functools.partial but a listcomp might be simpler:

   list(myfunc(a, b='booHoo') for a in myList)

There is another listcomp syntax with square brackets, but I try to
avoid it because it has broken behavior (leaks the index variable) in
Python 2.x.


From http  Mon Aug 31 11:48:14 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 31 Aug 2009 08:48:14 -0700
Subject: lambda functions
References: <5369eaa8-bcda-44e0-90c3-8972f2b1eb91@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xvdk4kmrl.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Pierre  writes:
> s_minus_1 = lambda s : for index in range(0, len(s)) : s[index] = s
> [index]-1

What are you trying to do here anyway?  That looks broken. 
Maybe you want the list.insert method.


From koranthala at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 12:03:13 2009
From: koranthala at gmail.com (koranthala)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 09:03:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: executable path finding
Message-ID: <9d71d0bd-5109-45b6-bce7-114607386063@y10g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

Hi,
    I am creating a python application using py2exe. I am facing a
problem which I am not sure how to solve.
    The application contains many other files associated with it -
like icons, config files etc. The executable can be in any directory.
If the user creates a shortcut to the executable to run in desktop,
the program fails - saying that the icon image cannot be found. But I
can run the application properly, if I run it from application
directory - where all the other icons, config files etc are kept.
    How is such issues usually solved? I do not want to hardcode the
paths of icons and store the icons in those paths. I guess, we can
change the directory to the application directory before running the
application. (in __init__.py ???) But how do we find the current
directory in that case? I am completely at sea in solving this.
    This looks to be a very common issue. How is this usually solved?


From deets at nospam.web.de  Mon Aug 31 12:07:20 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 18:07:20 +0200
Subject: executable path finding
References: <9d71d0bd-5109-45b6-bce7-114607386063@y10g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7g2apoF2nipofU2@mid.uni-berlin.de>

koranthala wrote:

> Hi,
>     I am creating a python application using py2exe. I am facing a
> problem which I am not sure how to solve.
>     The application contains many other files associated with it -
> like icons, config files etc. The executable can be in any directory.
> If the user creates a shortcut to the executable to run in desktop,
> the program fails - saying that the icon image cannot be found. But I
> can run the application properly, if I run it from application
> directory - where all the other icons, config files etc are kept.
>     How is such issues usually solved? I do not want to hardcode the
> paths of icons and store the icons in those paths. I guess, we can
> change the directory to the application directory before running the
> application. (in __init__.py ???) But how do we find the current
> directory in that case? I am completely at sea in solving this.
>     This looks to be a very common issue. How is this usually solved?

You can get the location of a module via

 module.__file__

This can be used to find a file relative to e.g. the toplevel module/package
of your application.

The pkg_resources-module of setuptools encapsulates that even into a stream
and file-name api.

Diez


From daniel.watrous at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 12:11:46 2009
From: daniel.watrous at gmail.com (Daniel)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 09:11:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: find free hard disk space remote windows host
Message-ID: <6070a0b2-23db-4824-851b-4920a31bd38e@q14g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I'm trying to determine the amount of free hard disk space on a remote
windows host.  Seems like this should be simple, but it's giving me
grief.  Here's what I've tried:

>>> mystat = os.stat('//remotehost/share/')
>>> mystat
(16895, 0L, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0L, 1251731920, 1251731289, 1249399952)

For some reason it doesn't show the details about space on the remote
path.

Next I tried this:

subprocess.call('dir //remotehost/share/ | find "bytes free"',
shell=True)

But this only returns the status, not the output, which is what I
need.

How can I determine the amount of free hard drive space on a remote
windows host using python?

Thanks


From vicente.soler at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 12:19:28 2009
From: vicente.soler at gmail.com (vsoler)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 09:19:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Efficient way to sum a product of numbers...
Message-ID: <73c1558e-8103-431a-9830-dead8024200b@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

After simplifying my problem, I can say that I want to get the sum of
the product of two culumns:

Say
         m= [[ 'a', 1], [ 'b', 2],[ 'a', 3]]
         r={'a':4, 'b':5, 'c':6}

What I need is the calculation

         1*4 + 2*5 + 3*4 = 4 + 10 + 12 = 26

That is, for each row list in variable 'm' look for its first element
in variable 'r' and multiply the value found by the second element in
row 'm'. After that, sum all the products.

What's an efficient way to do it? I have thousands of these
calculations to make on a big data file.

Thank you.


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Mon Aug 31 12:30:27 2009
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 11:30:27 -0500
Subject: Efficient way to sum a product of numbers...
In-Reply-To: <73c1558e-8103-431a-9830-dead8024200b@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: <73c1558e-8103-431a-9830-dead8024200b@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A9BFAA3.3000308@tim.thechases.com>

> After simplifying my problem, I can say that I want to get the sum of
> the product of two culumns:
> 
> Say
>          m= [[ 'a', 1], [ 'b', 2],[ 'a', 3]]
assuming you meant ['c', 3] here...    ^
>          r={'a':4, 'b':5, 'c':6}
> 
> What I need is the calculation
> 
>          1*4 + 2*5 + 3*4 = 4 + 10 + 12 = 26
and you mean "3*6" here instead of "3*4", which is 18 instead of 
12, making the whole sum 4+10+18=32


Then it sounds like you could do something like

  result = sum(v * r[k] for k,v in m)

where "m" is any arbitrary iterable of tuples.  If the keys (the 
letters) aren't guaranteed to be in "r", then you can use 
defaults (in this case "0", but could just as likely be "1" 
depending on your intent):

  result = sum(v * r.get(k,0) for k,v in m)


If the conditions above don't hold, you'll have to introduce me 
to your new math. ;-)

-tkc





From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 12:31:25 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 09:31:25 -0700
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
In-Reply-To: 
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	<6Djmm.14757$ze1.10295@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	
	
Message-ID: 

No need to feed the troll by actually trying to engage in the discussion,  
but just FYI:

>    Sanskrit is mostly written in Devanagari these days which is also
> useful for selling things to people who speak Hindi and other Indian
> languages.

Devanagari is what's used for Hindi and a handful of other languages, yes,  
but most Indian languages (Gujarati, Punjabi, Bengali, and Tamil just to  
name a few) use different scripts.

On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 20:07:17 -0700, Neil Hodgson  
 wrote:

> Benjamin Peterson:
>
>> Like Sanskrit or Snowman language?
>
>    Sanskrit is mostly written in Devanagari these days which is also
> useful for selling things to people who speak Hindi and other Indian
> languages.
>
>    Not sure if you are referring to the ? snowman character or Arctic
> region languages like Canadian Aboriginal syllabic writing like ?????
> which were added to Unicode 8 years after the initial version. I'd guess
> that was added from political rather than marketing motives. ? was
> required since it was present in Japanese character sets.
>
>    Neil



-- 
Rami Chowdhury
"Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --  
Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)


From koranthala at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 12:37:24 2009
From: koranthala at gmail.com (koranthala)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 09:37:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: executable path finding
References: <9d71d0bd-5109-45b6-bce7-114607386063@y10g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<7g2apoF2nipofU2@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <40dd30b5-c65c-4fb2-9a3a-c9264f333018@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 31, 9:07?pm, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
> koranthala wrote:
> > Hi,
> > ? ? I am creating a python application using py2exe. I am facing a
> > problem which I am not sure how to solve.
> > ? ? The application contains many other files associated with it -
> > like icons, config files etc. The executable can be in any directory.
> > If the user creates a shortcut to the executable to run in desktop,
> > the program fails - saying that the icon image cannot be found. But I
> > can run the application properly, if I run it from application
> > directory - where all the other icons, config files etc are kept.
> > ? ? How is such issues usually solved? I do not want to hardcode the
> > paths of icons and store the icons in those paths. I guess, we can
> > change the directory to the application directory before running the
> > application. (in __init__.py ???) But how do we find the current
> > directory in that case? I am completely at sea in solving this.
> > ? ? This looks to be a very common issue. How is this usually solved?
>
> You can get the location of a module via
>
> ?module.__file__
>
> This can be used to find a file relative to e.g. the toplevel module/package
> of your application.
>
> The pkg_resources-module of setuptools encapsulates that even into a stream
> and file-name api.
>
> Diez

Thank you Diez. It was what I was looking for.


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 12:43:30 2009
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 11:43:30 -0500
Subject: rcond in numpy :
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-31 04:02 AM, Pierre wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> Anyone knows the numpy equivalent of the matlab function : rcond
> (Matrix reciprocal condition number estimate) ?

You will want to ask numpy questions on the numpy mailing list:

   http://www.scipy.org/Mailing_Lists

numpy.linalg.cond() will give you the condition number of the matrix. Invert it 
to get the reciprocal.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From vicente.soler at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 12:43:45 2009
From: vicente.soler at gmail.com (vsoler)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 09:43:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Efficient way to sum a product of numbers...
References: <73c1558e-8103-431a-9830-dead8024200b@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <26d7f803-ec2d-4195-a48b-d34c0cbedc84@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 31, 6:30?pm, Tim Chase  wrote:
> > After simplifying my problem, I can say that I want to get the sum of
> > the product of two culumns:
>
> > Say
> > ? ? ? ? ?m= [[ 'a', 1], [ 'b', 2],[ 'a', 3]]
>
> assuming you meant ['c', 3] here... ? ?^> ? ? ? ? ?r={'a':4, 'b':5, 'c':6}
>
> > What I need is the calculation
>
> > ? ? ? ? ?1*4 + 2*5 + 3*4 = 4 + 10 + 12 = 26
>
> and you mean "3*6" here instead of "3*4", which is 18 instead of
> 12, making the whole sum 4+10+18=32
>
> Then it sounds like you could do something like
>
> ? result = sum(v * r[k] for k,v in m)
>
> where "m" is any arbitrary iterable of tuples. ?If the keys (the
> letters) aren't guaranteed to be in "r", then you can use
> defaults (in this case "0", but could just as likely be "1"
> depending on your intent):
>
> ? result = sum(v * r.get(k,0) for k,v in m)
>
> If the conditions above don't hold, you'll have to introduce me
> to your new math. ;-)
>
> -tkc

Hello Tim,

There is no mistake in my original post, so I really meant [ 'a', 3]

Imagine that m contains time sheets of suppliers

   supplier 'a' has worked for you 1 hour
   supplier 'b' has worked for you 2 hour
   supplier 'a' has worked for you 3 hour

Now

   supplier 'a' charges $4 per hour
   supplier 'b' charges $5 per hour
   supplier 'c' charges $6 per hour

I want to know how much I will be charged this month by my pannel of
suppliers.

   1*4 + 2*5 + 3*4 = 4 + 10 + 12 = 26

This is what I am after.
I expect all my suppliers to have handed me in advance the per hour
fee. If at least one hasn't, I must know that the result is undefined.

Hope this helps


Vicente Soler


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Mon Aug 31 12:59:01 2009
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 11:59:01 -0500
Subject: Efficient way to sum a product of numbers...
In-Reply-To: <26d7f803-ec2d-4195-a48b-d34c0cbedc84@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
References: <73c1558e-8103-431a-9830-dead8024200b@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	
	<26d7f803-ec2d-4195-a48b-d34c0cbedc84@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A9C0155.2090505@tim.thechases.com>

vsoler wrote:
> On Aug 31, 6:30 pm, Tim Chase  wrote:
>>> After simplifying my problem, I can say that I want to get the sum of
>>> the product of two culumns:
>>> Say
>>>          m= [[ 'a', 1], [ 'b', 2],[ 'a', 3]]
>> assuming you meant ['c', 3] here...    ^>          r={'a':4, 'b':5, 'c':6}
>>
>>> What I need is the calculation
>>>          1*4 + 2*5 + 3*4 = 4 + 10 + 12 = 26
>> and you mean "3*6" here instead of "3*4", which is 18 instead of
>> 12, making the whole sum 4+10+18=32
>>
>> Then it sounds like you could do something like
>>
>>   result = sum(v * r[k] for k,v in m)
>>
>> where "m" is any arbitrary iterable of tuples.  If the keys (the
>> letters) aren't guaranteed to be in "r", then you can use
>> defaults (in this case "0", but could just as likely be "1"
>> depending on your intent):
>>
>>   result = sum(v * r.get(k,0) for k,v in m)
>>
>> If the conditions above don't hold, you'll have to introduce me
>> to your new math. ;-)

> There is no mistake in my original post, so I really meant [ 'a', 3]

Ah...that makes more sense of the data.  My answer still holds 
then.  Use the r[k] version instead of the r.get(...) version, 
and it will throw an exception if the rate doesn't exist in your 
mapping.  (a KeyError if you want to catch it)

-tkc




From rt8396 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 13:00:01 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:00:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: An assessment of Tkinter and IDLE
References: <55a0833d-3f1f-402a-8eb7-cb4b7861cce5@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	
	<1010dd16-fa92-46b6-8391-b8a701704472@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	
	<827effaa-d0f7-4142-b4b9-6f9f8e0e7963@e34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<4A9BD58D.3060808@codebykevin.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Kevin and Terry,


Kevin.
I respectfully disagree that the site is ready for prime time
*However* i do not wish to undermine the great work that Mark Roseman
has done here and i thank him for his contribution. He has put much
work into covering all the major languages and i think this site
*could* turn out to be the best one-stop-shop for Tk coding no matter
what language you come use. And Actually of all the sites that i know
of, his is by far the most professional/modern looking of all!

My only beef with Mark's site is lack of detailed information OR a
reference manual of sorts in the Python language. We have too many
places around the net one must go to get this information when
starting the road to Tkinter.

The Effbot site is great with much detail but is not a good reference.
John's NMT site is a great reference but lacks the extensive tutorial
style details of effbot. Mark's site is the shiny new corvette,
however the engine is on back order?

We need to compile this info into one beautiful orgy of Tkinter
learning material. Here are the three sites that i mentioned above,
they would compress well into one...

http://effbot.org/tkinterbook/
http://infohost.nmt.edu/tcc/help/pubs/tkinter/
http://www.tkdocs.com/


[TERRY SAID..]
While I hadn't used it before, I think Tkinter may very well be the
nicest interface to Tk next to Tcl's (for which Tk was originally
designed of course, so you'd expect a bit of an advantage). For people
unfamiliar with either language, I think Python's more conventional
use of parentheses for functions, the "option=value" syntax, plus
other
language features it takes advantage of are very attractive and win
out over Tcl.
[/TERRY]

Well put Terry! I could not agree more with this assessment! Pythons
wrapping of Tk is so beautiful next to the other languages i can bet a
lot of Ruby, Tcl, and Perl guys are going to feel like ugly ducklings
at a Ms america pageant! (but i may be partial to Python code... just
a little)  ;-)

When it comes to using Tkinter I think a lot of people let ego get in
the way. Yes the name may sound synonymous with "Tinker Toys" however,
TEE-KAY-ENTER is a great (albeit simple) GUI toolkit. I use it quite
often and reach for the power of wx only when i need the extra
functionality -- which the gap is starting to close. Anyhow, welcome
to Tkinter Terry, i only wished you would had dropped by
sooner...??? :)

psst: maybe you can use your influence and convince others that Tk is
not so bad?


From vicente.soler at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 13:13:34 2009
From: vicente.soler at gmail.com (vsoler)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:13:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Efficient way to sum a product of numbers...
References: <73c1558e-8103-431a-9830-dead8024200b@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	
	<26d7f803-ec2d-4195-a48b-d34c0cbedc84@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 31, 6:59?pm, Tim Chase  wrote:
> vsoler wrote:
> > On Aug 31, 6:30 pm, Tim Chase  wrote:
> >>> After simplifying my problem, I can say that I want to get the sum of
> >>> the product of two culumns:
> >>> Say
> >>> ? ? ? ? ?m= [[ 'a', 1], [ 'b', 2],[ 'a', 3]]
> >> assuming you meant ['c', 3] here... ? ?^> ? ? ? ? ?r={'a':4, 'b':5, 'c':6}
>
> >>> What I need is the calculation
> >>> ? ? ? ? ?1*4 + 2*5 + 3*4 = 4 + 10 + 12 = 26
> >> and you mean "3*6" here instead of "3*4", which is 18 instead of
> >> 12, making the whole sum 4+10+18=32
>
> >> Then it sounds like you could do something like
>
> >> ? result = sum(v * r[k] for k,v in m)
>
> >> where "m" is any arbitrary iterable of tuples. ?If the keys (the
> >> letters) aren't guaranteed to be in "r", then you can use
> >> defaults (in this case "0", but could just as likely be "1"
> >> depending on your intent):
>
> >> ? result = sum(v * r.get(k,0) for k,v in m)
>
> >> If the conditions above don't hold, you'll have to introduce me
> >> to your new math. ;-)
> > There is no mistake in my original post, so I really meant [ 'a', 3]
>
> Ah...that makes more sense of the data. ?My answer still holds
> then. ?Use the r[k] version instead of the r.get(...) version,
> and it will throw an exception if the rate doesn't exist in your
> mapping. ?(a KeyError if you want to catch it)
>
> -tkc

It works!!!

Thank you


From szport at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 13:21:22 2009
From: szport at gmail.com (zaur)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:21:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 29 ???, 16:45, zaur  wrote:
> Python 2.6.2 (r262:71600, Apr 16 2009, 09:17:39)
> [GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 5250)] on darwin
> Type "copyright", "credits" or "license()" for more information.>>> a=1
> >>> x=[a]
> >>> id(a)==id(x[0])
> True
> >>> a+=1
> >>> a
> 2
> >>> x[0]
>
> 1
>
> I thought that += should only change the value of the int object. But
> += create new.
> Is this intentional?

As a result of this debate is not whether we should conclude that
there should be two types of integers in python: 1) immutable numbers,
which behave as constant value; 2) mutable numbers, which behave as
variable value?


From ajoys123 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 13:23:48 2009
From: ajoys123 at gmail.com (devaru)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:23:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Logging contents of IRC channel
Message-ID: 

I am new to Python. I want to log the activities in an IRC channel.
Any pointers regarding this would be of great help.


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 13:29:22 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:29:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: An assessment of Tkinter and IDLE
References: <55a0833d-3f1f-402a-8eb7-cb4b7861cce5@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <799b8346-dc43-48be-aee0-bc5b1b235e1e@e34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 28, 11:12?am, Mark Roseman  wrote:
> Would it be useful to link to this from the main Python Tkinter
> documentation?
>
> Mark

Sorry Mark,
i did not realize when i replied to you that YOU are the Mark of
tkdoc.com. For some reason i only saw Tcl code when i visted the site,
and that prompted my slightly grumpy rant. After looking a second time
(and actually reading more) i see this site has much promise. I hope
my post did not seem condescending of your efforts. I think your site
is beautiful and just wish we could add MORE Python specific info to
it like i covered in my last post. And also I would like to see a
complete coverage of all the widgets.

We more experienced guys already know how and where to find the
thousand or so sites for this or that Python info, but the new users
are going to be lost in the wilderness. I love that Python has so much
info out there, i just hate that is so spread out! We must do
something about this in a way that all doc/tut creators can be happy.

PS: and i would like to contribute to your site.


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 13:59:41 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:59:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 31, 10:21?am, zaur  wrote:
> On 29 ???, 16:45, zaur  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Python 2.6.2 (r262:71600, Apr 16 2009, 09:17:39)
> > [GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 5250)] on darwin
> > Type "copyright", "credits" or "license()" for more information.>>> a=1
> > >>> x=[a]
> > >>> id(a)==id(x[0])
> > True
> > >>> a+=1
> > >>> a
> > 2
> > >>> x[0]
>
> > 1
>
> > I thought that += should only change the value of the int object. But
> > += create new.
> > Is this intentional?
>
> As a result of this debate is not whether we should conclude that
> there should be two types of integers in python: 1) immutable numbers,
> which behave as constant value; 2) mutable numbers, which behave as
> variable value?

You are free to use third-party modules (such as numpy) which provide
mutable numbers.

I see no reason to include any mutable number type standard library,
as not many people will require the performance benefits and/or
indirection of mutable numbers, and those who do are free to use third-
party modules that provide them.


Carl Banks


From sccolbert at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 14:15:20 2009
From: sccolbert at gmail.com (Chris Colbert)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 14:15:20 -0400
Subject: IDE for Python
In-Reply-To: <0f5f01d3-220e-4ef8-b55b-0f88f58a0afd@b18g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	<0f5f01d3-220e-4ef8-b55b-0f88f58a0afd@b18g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7f014ea60908311115s33f32d63v39706acba8fad9b3@mail.gmail.com>

I'm a big fan of wing. Pay for the non-free version and you get all
the goodies, plus PHENOMENAL support. Really. They answer support
emails within a few minutes.

Its has the best code completion i've seen in any python editor/ide
and is also the most stable, fastest (for ide's), and customizable.

I am not affiliated with Wingware or their parent company in any way.


On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 11:32 AM, Che M wrote:
> On Aug 31, 10:53?am, Mike Driscoll  wrote:
>> On Aug 29, 1:08?pm, ivanko.... at gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> > 29.08.2009 4:14 ???????????? "Thangappan.M"  ?
>> > ???????:
>>
>> > > Dear all,
>> > > Please suggest some good IDE for python.I am working in linux platform.
>> > > --
>> > > Regards,
>> > > Thangappan.M
>>
>> > You can use Eclipse + PyDev or Emacs+PythonMode . Also there are Anjuta and ?
>> > Code:Blocks, but they are designed mainly for C++ (but still can be used).
>>
>> Don't forget Wingware IDE. Admittedly, it's not free (except for a
>> limited version), but it's pretty good. There's also SPE (Stani's
>> Python Editor). If you want a nigh-complete list, check the Python
>> wiki:
>>
>> http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonEditors
>
> Not sure when an editor gets to be called an IDE, but while on the
> site
> that OP should check out this related page:
>
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/IntegratedDevelopmentEnvironments
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From http  Mon Aug 31 14:27:03 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 31 Aug 2009 11:27:03 -0700
Subject: Efficient way to sum a product of numbers...
References: <73c1558e-8103-431a-9830-dead8024200b@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xab1f2614.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

vsoler  writes:
>          m= [[ 'a', 1], [ 'b', 2],[ 'a', 3]]
>          r={'a':4, 'b':5, 'c':6}
> 
> What I need is the calculation
> 
>          1*4 + 2*5 + 3*4 = 4 + 10 + 12 = 26

sum(r[k]*w for k,w in m)


From http  Mon Aug 31 14:30:13 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 31 Aug 2009 11:30:13 -0700
Subject: Logging contents of IRC channel
References: 
Message-ID: <7x63c325vu.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

devaru  writes:
> I am new to Python. I want to log the activities in an IRC channel.
> Any pointers regarding this would be of great help.

http://science.slashdot.org/science/04/04/13/1356216.shtml


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Mon Aug 31 14:39:56 2009
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 19:39:56 +0100
Subject: find free hard disk space remote windows host
In-Reply-To: <6070a0b2-23db-4824-851b-4920a31bd38e@q14g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
References: <6070a0b2-23db-4824-851b-4920a31bd38e@q14g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A9C18FC.2050702@timgolden.me.uk>

Daniel wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I'm trying to determine the amount of free hard disk space on a remote
> windows host.  Seems like this should be simple, but it's giving me
> grief.  Here's what I've tried:
> 
>>>> mystat = os.stat('//remotehost/share/')
>>>> mystat
> (16895, 0L, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0L, 1251731920, 1251731289, 1249399952)

Assuming you have the necessary security levels,
WMI's quite good at this kind of thing. See this
example:

  http://timgolden.me.uk/python/wmi_cookbook.html#percentage_free

and just add "remotehost" as the first parameter to the
wmi.WMI () call. (And I recommend find_classes=False) for
speed.

TJG


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Mon Aug 31 14:56:29 2009
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 11:56:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Logging contents of IRC channel
References: 
Message-ID: <395c130e-3269-453f-b8e5-379aea2de7d8@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 31, 10:23?am, devaru  wrote:
> I am new to Python. I want to log the activities in an IRC channel.
> Any pointers regarding this would be of great help.

How are you going to plug into the chat server to obtain the data?

How will you store the data?

The in between parts are really easy.


From 71david at libero.it  Mon Aug 31 15:04:27 2009
From: 71david at libero.it (David)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 21:04:27 +0200
Subject: Why does this group have so much spam?
References: <7294bf8b-9819-4b6d-92b2-afc1c8042a06@x6g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<7l1wem586nhf.c8spq9wpqg99.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
	
Message-ID: <171zfm8mhuokq.1e4ltdmqqfp01.dlg@40tude.net>

Il Sun, 30 Aug 2009 16:08:46 -0700 (PDT), r ha scritto:


> Yes i agree but your logic is flawed. If someone cuts my brake lines
> and i cannot stop who is to blame? Or if someone throws nails on the
> highway and i crash, who is to blame? Obviously you cannot blame the
> car owner. However if i let my brake pads wear out until they are
> metal on metal and run over some poor old lady crossing the street --
> well now you got me! ;)
> 
> But you cannot apply this logic when a hacker compromises someones
> computer, it the same as cutting their brake lines. How can you
> honestly expect that Joe computer user will know of this infection? 

I expect that user makes periodical and hopefully frequent checks to his
computer. Today most of the people simply does absolutely nothing.
Obvioulsy there is a vulnerability time between two check, but Perfection
does not belongs to human beings so we must accept the risk of being cracked
and being aware that we will charged for our computer actions, even if we
are not directly responsible.
It's a question of point of view: in italy if a thief steals a car and
causes an accident the car's owner's assurance (having a car assurance is
mandatory) must refund the victims. That's because protections of victims is
first priority.
Obviously the owner can not be charged 


>Do
> you even know where your brake lines are? Even hackers can be hacked
> without ever knowing it! The only sure fire way is VM's or system re-
> installs.

That's a problem of the computer owner. Why should the rest of the world be
charged of *his* problem while keeping him safe from suffering any
consequence?

>[...]
>> I think it's time to switch to responsible computing and the mail-tax would
>> charge each person of its own costs and annoyances without affectig the rest
>> of the world.
> 
> What, this is madness! If you have terrorist terrorizing your country
> you don't tax the public when they blow up a shopping mall so you can
> rebuild it! No you kill the terrorist in a harsh and painful manner
> and make an example of them, then you seize there monies. You should
> direct your anger to the proper internet security authorities(and more
> importantly to the perpetrator's) and not the innocent victims of such
> attacks. I want you to sit back and think very deeply about your
> proposal here because it is horribly wrong.

Madness, you say? Let's examine the situation a bit moore deeply.

First, the mail-tax would is not for rebuilding the destroyed building after
the attack but, at the opposite, to prevent the attack. Wouldn't you pay a
small tax to prevent terrorist's attacks?
The mail-tax would be really small, if you send 1000 mails at month (a real
huge traffic, for a non spammer!) the bill would be about 10 cents. 
Do you really think this is too much to get rid of most of the spam?

Second, today we *are* paying that tax to repair building destroyed by
terrorists. 
We are paying and hidden tax in terms of HW and human resources needed by
ISPs to manage that huge (~90%) useless/malicius traffic. (I don't mention
const related to dalays, denial of services, theft of informations...)
Those costs are obviously charged by ISPs on our montly subscription bill. 
By the mail-tax we achive 3 results: 
1. stopping forever direct spammers.
2. make each owner aware that his computer is compromised when the montly
bill is higher than usual.
3. make that owner aware that *he* must pay for *his* problem and the rest
of the world (included, I hope, you) is no more willing to be charged for
this.

The mail-tax may not be Final Solution against spam, but helps a lot.

> 
> It is so easy to just slap a tax on something, yes that will solve
> everything. *sarcasm*

You should reconsider your position because you are actually blaming the
present situation, not my proposal.
Finally a little criticims: spam and related malware is a problem growing
day by day. I am proposing a solution and if somebody doest't like it, well,
he should propose a better one. Just saying "NO!" and turning head aside
hoping that the problem will solve by itsef is no more acceptable.

> 
>>> If you want to avoid usenet spam and don't want to filter it yourself,
>>> find a provider with more aggressive spam filter.
>>
>> This is not the solution. You are saying that if your neighbour makes loud
>> noises you can not call police to impose him to cease but you can only make
>> your home soundproof.
> 
> or you could go over and punch him in the nose, works every time for
> me ;-)

In italy we say: "preventing is better than treating" (a disease).

Regards
David


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Mon Aug 31 15:22:20 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 21:22:20 +0200
Subject: map
In-Reply-To: <7xzl9gkmu5.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <777de4d8-e591-4d21-bbd0-b286105895bc@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<7xzl9gkmu5.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: 

Another possibilities, if you really *desire* to use map()
and not list-comprehension (I'd prefer the latter), are:

# Python 2.x:
map(func, mylist, itertools.repeat('booHoo', len(mylist)))

# Python 3.x, where map() works like Py2.x's itertools.imap():
list(map(func, mylist, itertools.repeat('booHoo')))

Cheers,
*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From mcravitz at att.net  Mon Aug 31 15:43:04 2009
From: mcravitz at att.net (MikeC)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 12:43:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: win32ui DLL Load Failed
Message-ID: 

I have a python executable that's failing to load on a user's machine
running Windows XP. My developer machine is also running Windows XP. I
have determined that it is failing when it attempts to load win32ui.

I have Python 2.6 on my developer machine and am using the pywin
support (Mark Hammonds???) for Python 2.6.

In order to make the problem smaller and more managable I created an
executable (with pytoexe) of a 1 one-line python script which does the
following:

import win32ui

Running the one-line script on my machine from python source as well
as from the executable created from the one-line source works fine on
my machine. But when I attempt to run the executable on a target
Windows/XP user machine (without Python) it fails with the following
traceback

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "CheckScan.py", line 7, in 
  File "PrintImage.pyc", line 1, in 
  File "win32ui.pyc", line 12, in 
  File "win32ui.pyc", line 10, in __load
ImportError: DLL load failed: This application has failed to start
because the application configuration is incorrect. Reinstalling the
application may fix this problem.

The only thing I can think of regarding the difference between my
machine and the target machine is that I have the .NET framework on my
machine. Is it possible that that is the problem? Running Depends
didn't get me anywhere. I would appreciate any help you can offer.


From gordon at panix.com  Mon Aug 31 15:44:03 2009
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 19:44:03 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Unexpected 411 error response using httplib
Message-ID: 

I'm writing some code that queries a Microsoft Exchange Web Services server.
The server is responding with a 411 Length Required error, which is strange
because I am definitely sending a Content-Length header.

Here's the code:

-----------------------------------------------------
import httplib
import base64

SoapMessage = """\


  
    
      
        Default
        
          
          
          
        
      
      
        
      
    
  
\
"""

host = "some.host.com"

username = "myUsername"
password = "myPassword"
auth = base64.encodestring(username + ":" + password)

conn = httplib.HTTPSConnection(host)
conn.set_debuglevel(5)
conn.putrequest("POST", "/EWS/Exchange.asmx")
conn.putheader("Content-type", "text/xml; charset=\"UTF-8\"")
conn.putheader("Proxy-Authorization", "Basic %s" % auth)
conn.putheader("Content-Length", "%d" % len(SoapMessage))
conn.putheader("User-Agent", "Python post")
conn.endheaders()
conn.send(SoapMessage)

resp = conn.getresponse()

body    = resp.read()
headers = resp.msg
version = resp.version
status  = resp.status
reason  = resp.reason

conn.close()

print "Response: ", status, reason
print "Headers: ", headers
print body
-----------------------------------------------------

As you can see, I am including the call to putheader() for Content-Length,
and the debugging output confirms that the header is present in the outgoing
message.

So why am I getting a 411 Length Required error?

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From no.email at please.post  Mon Aug 31 15:46:37 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 19:46:37 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: pyjamas in action?
Message-ID: 




At work we want to implement a webapp using Google's GWT, and we're
debating whether to use the standard GWT approach with Java, or to
try Pyjamas.  There's no great love here for Java, but there's the
concern that Pyjamas will not be able to deliver the full power
and/or convenience of standard Java-based GWT.  (Why-oh-why did
Google pick Java for this?  Couldn't Guido twist some arms?  Just
kidding.)

Are there any examples of real production websites implemented with
Pyjamas?

TIA!

kynn


From emile at fenx.com  Mon Aug 31 15:48:08 2009
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 12:48:08 -0700
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
In-Reply-To: 
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>	<3e9ddb9b-8f61-4d8d-a25c-7e95e8a25c06@g1g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>		<200908311019.58029.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>	<4A9BDFFE.2040402@wiggly.org>
	
Message-ID: 

On 8/31/2009 10:41 AM Dennis Lee Bieber said...
> On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 15:36:46 +0100, Nigel Rantor 

>> Also, I'm surprised no-one has mentioned Esperanto yet. Sounds like 
>> something r and Xah would *love*.
>>
> 	Hmmm, thought I had mentioned Esperanto (and Klingon)

Just curious -- has anyone mentioned autocoding?  :)

Emile



From kyosohma at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 15:48:37 2009
From: kyosohma at gmail.com (Mike Driscoll)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 12:48:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: win32ui DLL Load Failed
References: 
Message-ID: <591c8c0d-8134-4bd6-923f-7b05066c92ad@m20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 31, 2:43?pm, MikeC  wrote:
> I have a python executable that's failing to load on a user's machine
> running Windows XP. My developer machine is also running Windows XP. I
> have determined that it is failing when it attempts to load win32ui.
>
> I have Python 2.6 on my developer machine and am using the pywin
> support (Mark Hammonds???) for Python 2.6.
>
> In order to make the problem smaller and more managable I created an
> executable (with pytoexe) of a 1 one-line python script which does the
> following:
>
> import win32ui
>
> Running the one-line script on my machine from python source as well
> as from the executable created from the one-line source works fine on
> my machine. But when I attempt to run the executable on a target
> Windows/XP user machine (without Python) it fails with the following
> traceback
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? File "CheckScan.py", line 7, in 
> ? File "PrintImage.pyc", line 1, in 
> ? File "win32ui.pyc", line 12, in 
> ? File "win32ui.pyc", line 10, in __load
> ImportError: DLL load failed: This application has failed to start
> because the application configuration is incorrect. Reinstalling the
> application may fix this problem.
>
> The only thing I can think of regarding the difference between my
> machine and the target machine is that I have the .NET framework on my
> machine. Is it possible that that is the problem? Running Depends
> didn't get me anywhere. I would appreciate any help you can offer.

Did you install PyWin32? If so, which version? Here's a link:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/pywin32/

- Mike


From ckaynor at zindagigames.com  Mon Aug 31 15:51:59 2009
From: ckaynor at zindagigames.com (Chris Kaynor)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 12:51:59 -0700
Subject: win32ui DLL Load Failed
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

You likely need to install the Microsoft Visual C++ 2008 SP1 Redistributable
Package on the target machine. If you search Google for this, you should
find it (make sure to grab the correct version of x86 or x64 depending upon
the Python version).


Chris


On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 12:43 PM, MikeC  wrote:

> I have a python executable that's failing to load on a user's machine
> running Windows XP. My developer machine is also running Windows XP. I
> have determined that it is failing when it attempts to load win32ui.
>
> I have Python 2.6 on my developer machine and am using the pywin
> support (Mark Hammonds???) for Python 2.6.
>
> In order to make the problem smaller and more managable I created an
> executable (with pytoexe) of a 1 one-line python script which does the
> following:
>
> import win32ui
>
> Running the one-line script on my machine from python source as well
> as from the executable created from the one-line source works fine on
> my machine. But when I attempt to run the executable on a target
> Windows/XP user machine (without Python) it fails with the following
> traceback
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "CheckScan.py", line 7, in 
>  File "PrintImage.pyc", line 1, in 
>  File "win32ui.pyc", line 12, in 
>  File "win32ui.pyc", line 10, in __load
> ImportError: DLL load failed: This application has failed to start
> because the application configuration is incorrect. Reinstalling the
> application may fix this problem.
>
> The only thing I can think of regarding the difference between my
> machine and the target machine is that I have the .NET framework on my
> machine. Is it possible that that is the problem? Running Depends
> didn't get me anywhere. I would appreciate any help you can offer.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From nobody at nowhere.com  Mon Aug 31 16:20:55 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 21:20:55 +0100
Subject: map
References: <777de4d8-e591-4d21-bbd0-b286105895bc@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 21:55:52 -0700, elsa wrote:

> say I have a list, myList. Now say I have a function with more than
> one argument:
> 
> myFunc(a, b='None')
> 
> now, say I want to map myFunc onto myList, with always the same
> argument for b, but iterating over a:
> 
> map(myFunc(b='booHoo'), myList)
> 
> Why doesn't this work?

You're passing the result of (incorrectly) calling myFunc to map(), but
you need to pass a function.

> is there a way to make it work?

If you need to construct a simple function on-the-fly, you can use a
lambda form:

	map(lambda x: myFunc(x, b='booHoo'), myList)

Or you could use a list comprehension:

	[myFunc(x, b='booHoo') for x in myList]



From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Mon Aug 31 16:28:56 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 22:28:56 +0200
Subject: Efficient way to sum a product of numbers...
In-Reply-To: <4A9BFAA3.3000308@tim.thechases.com>
References: <73c1558e-8103-431a-9830-dead8024200b@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<4A9BFAA3.3000308@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: 

31-08-2009 o 18:19:28 vsoler  wrote:

> Say
>          m= [[ 'a', 1], [ 'b', 2],[ 'a', 3]]
>          r={'a':4, 'b':5, 'c':6}
>
> What I need is the calculation
>
>          1*4 + 2*5 + 3*4 = 4 + 10 + 12 = 26
>
> That is, for each row list in variable 'm' look for its first element
> in variable 'r' and multiply the value found by the second element in
> row 'm'. After that, sum all the products.
>
> What's an efficient way to do it? I have thousands of these
> calculations to make on a big data file.


31-08-2009 o 18:30:27 Tim Chase  wrote:

>   result = sum(v * r[k] for k,v in m)


You can also check if this isn't more efficient:

   from itertools import starmap
   from operator import mul

   result = sum(starmap(mul, ((r[name], hour) for name, hour in m)))


Or, if you had m in form of two lists:

   names = ['a', 'b', 'a']
   hours = [1, 2, 3]

...then you could do:

   from itertools import imap as map  # <- remove if you use Py3.x
   from operator import mul

   result = sum(map(mul, map(r.__getitem__, names), hours))


Cheers,
*j

PS. I've done a quick test on my computer (Pentium 4, 2.4Ghz, Linux):

>>> setup = "from itertools import starmap, imap ; from operator import  
>>> mul; import random, string; names =  
>>> [rndom.choice(string.ascii_letters) for x in xrange(10000)]; hours =  
>>> [random.randint(1, 12) for x in xrange(1000)]; m = zip(names, hours);  
>>> workers = set(names); r = dict(zip(workers, (random.randint(1, 10) for  
>>> x in xrange(en(workers)))))"
>>> tests = (
...     'sum(v * r[k] for k,v in m)',
...     'sum(starmap(mul, ((r[name], hour) for name, hour in m)))',
...     'sum(imap(mul, imap(r.__getitem__, names), hours))',
... )
>>> for t in tests:
...     print t
...     timeit.repeat(t, setup, number=1000)
...     print
...
sum(v * r[k] for k,v in m)
[6.2493009567260742, 6.1892399787902832, 6.2634339332580566]

sum(starmap(mul, ((r[name], hour) for name, hour in m)))
[9.3293819427490234, 10.280816078186035, 9.2766909599304199]

sum(imap(mul, imap(r.__getitem__, names), hours))
[5.7341709136962891, 5.5898380279541016, 5.7318859100341797]


-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From andre.roberge at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 16:35:25 2009
From: andre.roberge at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9?=)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 13:35:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: pyjamas in action?
References: 
Message-ID: <09fc970b-febe-4c73-9443-e10550bca916@j19g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 31, 4:46?pm, kj  wrote:
> At work we want to implement a webapp using Google's GWT, and we're
> debating whether to use the standard GWT approach with Java, or to
> try Pyjamas. ?There's no great love here for Java, but there's the
> concern that Pyjamas will not be able to deliver the full power
> and/or convenience of standard Java-based GWT. ?(Why-oh-why did
> Google pick Java for this? ?Couldn't Guido twist some arms? ?Just
> kidding.)
>
> Are there any examples of real production websites implemented with
> Pyjamas?
>
> TIA!
>
> kynn

Perhaps you might get answers faster if you posted to the pyjamas
group: http://groups.google.com/group/pyjamas-dev

Andr?


From mcravitz at att.net  Mon Aug 31 16:36:25 2009
From: mcravitz at att.net (MikeC)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 13:36:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: win32ui DLL Load Failed
References: 
Message-ID: <19449021-bcd4-4917-867f-882b9b586467@p36g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 31, 12:43?pm, MikeC  wrote:
> I have a python executable that's failing to load on a user's machine
> running Windows XP. My developer machine is also running Windows XP. I
> have determined that it is failing when it attempts to load win32ui.
>
> I have Python 2.6 on my developer machine and am using the pywin
> support (Mark Hammonds???) for Python 2.6.
>
> In order to make the problem smaller and more managable I created an
> executable (with pytoexe) of a 1 one-line python script which does the
> following:
>
> import win32ui
>
> Running the one-line script on my machine from python source as well
> as from the executable created from the one-line source works fine on
> my machine. But when I attempt to run the executable on a target
> Windows/XP user machine (without Python) it fails with the following
> traceback
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? File "CheckScan.py", line 7, in 
> ? File "PrintImage.pyc", line 1, in 
> ? File "win32ui.pyc", line 12, in 
> ? File "win32ui.pyc", line 10, in __load
> ImportError: DLL load failed: This application has failed to start
> because the application configuration is incorrect. Reinstalling the
> application may fix this problem.
>
> The only thing I can think of regarding the difference between my
> machine and the target machine is that I have the .NET framework on my
> machine. Is it possible that that is the problem? Running Depends
> didn't get me anywhere. I would appreciate any help you can offer.

I assume you're asking about my development machine. Yes I have it
installed. When I bring up PythonWin.exe, here is what is displayed at
the top of the main dialog.

PythonWin 2.6.1 (r261:67517, Dec  4 2008, 16:51:00) [MSC v.1500 32 bit
(Intel)] on win32.
Portions Copyright 1994-2008 Mark Hammond - see 'Help/About PythonWin'
for further copyright information.


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Mon Aug 31 16:40:51 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 22:40:51 +0200
Subject: Efficient way to sum a product of numbers...
In-Reply-To: 
References: <73c1558e-8103-431a-9830-dead8024200b@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<4A9BFAA3.3000308@tim.thechases.com>
	
Message-ID: 

31-08-2009 o 22:28:56 Jan Kaliszewski  wrote:

> >>> setup = "from itertools import starmap, imap ; from operator
> import mul; import random, string; names = [rndom.choice(string.
> ascii_letters) for x in xrange(10000)]; hours = [random.randint(
> 1, 12) for x in xrange(1000)]; m = zip(names, hours); workers = 
> set(names); r = dict(zip(workers, (random.randint(1, 10) for x i
> n xrange(en(workers)))))"

Erratum -- should be:

   >>> setup = (
   ...     'from itertools import starmap, imap;'
   ...     'from operator import mul;'
   ...     'import random, string; names'
   ...     ' = [random.choice(string.ascii_letters)'
   ...     '    for x in xrange(10000)];'
   ...     'hours = [random.randint(1, 12)'
   ...               for x in xrange(10000)];'
   ...     'm = zip(names, hours);'
   ...     'workers = set(names);'
   ...     'r = dict(zip(workers, (random.randint(1, 10)'
   ...     '                       for x in xrange(len(workers)))))'
   ... )

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Mon Aug 31 18:07:02 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 15:07:02 -0700
Subject: Object Reference question
In-Reply-To: 
References: <2dcf41c3-6623-48d9-bb74-97f753088479@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>	<9feee13c-117e-4806-b238-e4152a68adfb@18g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <4A9C4986.3010405@stoneleaf.us>

josef wrote:
> On Aug 27, 1:35 pm, Ethan Furman  wrote:
> 
>>josef wrote:
>>
>>>Thanks to everyone who responded.
>>
>>>I will be going with some sort of a = MyClass(name = 'a') format. It's
>>>the Python way.
>>
>>>For me, it was very hard to accept that EVERYTHING is an object
>>>reference. And that there are no object reference names, just string
>>>entries in dictionaries. But I think it all makes sense now.
>>
>>>Thanks again,
>>
>>>Josef
>>
>>My apologies if I missed it, but what *exactly* are you planning on
>>doing with your 'name' attribute?  From the posts I've seen so far, I
>>think you are only setting yourself up for failure.
>>
>>~Ethan~
> 
> 
> I'm going to use it for printing purposes. dk = MyClass(name='dk')
> When I need a name dk.name. There will only ever be one dk defined.
> 
> Does that read like I'm setting myself up for failure?

I was hoping someone with more expertise than myself would answer that. 
  :)  Oh well.

The best answer I can give is that you do not want to use 'name' to 
reference the object itself, but only for printing/debugging purposes. 
'name' is just a label for your object, and not necessarily the only 
label;  that particular label may also be lost... Consider:

In [5]: class MyClass(object):
    ...:     def __init__(self, name):
    ...:         self.name = name
    ...:     def __repr__(self):
    ...:         return "MyClass(name='%s')" % self.name
    ...:

In [6]: dk = MyClass(name='dk')

In [7]: dk
Out[7]: MyClass(name='dk')

In [8]: se = dk

In [9]: del dk

In [10]: se
Out[10]: MyClass(name='dk')

In [11]: dk
-------------------------------------------------------------------
NameError                         Traceback (most recent call last)

C:\pythonlib\ in ()

NameError: name 'dk' is not defined

As you can see, just because you have saved the original name does not 
gaurantee that same name will always reference that same object, or any 
object.

Hope this helps!

~Ethan~


From rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk  Mon Aug 31 18:40:12 2009
From: rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk (Rhodri James)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 23:40:12 +0100
Subject: lambda functions
In-Reply-To: <5369eaa8-bcda-44e0-90c3-8972f2b1eb91@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
References: <5369eaa8-bcda-44e0-90c3-8972f2b1eb91@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 08:41:57 +0100, Pierre   
wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I would like to know if it is possible to define a loop in a lambda
> function....
>
> How to manage the indents ? Example :
> s_minus_1 = lambda s : for index in range(0, len(s)) : s[index] = s
> [index]-1

You can't use commands in a lambda function, only expressions.  The nearest
thing I can think of to what you want here is to use a list comprehension:

   s_minus_1 = lambda s : [i-1 for i in s]
   my_list = s_minus_1(my_list)

On the other hand, giving a name to an anonymous function rather defeats
the point of it being an *anonymous* function!  What are you actually
trying to do here?  There's almost certainly a better way to do it than
this.

-- 
Rhodri James *-* Wildebeest Herder to the Masses


From bh at izb.knu.ac.kr  Mon Aug 31 19:15:53 2009
From: bh at izb.knu.ac.kr (Byung-Hee HWANG)
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 08:15:53 +0900
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	<3e9ddb9b-8f61-4d8d-a25c-7e95e8a25c06@g1g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<200908311019.58029.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
	
Message-ID: <86tyzninh2.fsf@betla.izb.knu.ac.kr>

Nigel Rantor  writes:

> Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:
>> On Sunday 30 August 2009 22:46:49 Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
>>
>>> 	Rather elitist viewpoint... Why don't we just drop nukes on some 60%
>>> of populated landmasses that don't have a "western" culture and avoid
>>> the whole problem?
>>
>> Now yer talking, boyo!  It will surely help with the basic problem
>> which is the heavy infestation of people on the planet!
>> :-)
>
> 
> On two conditions:
>
> 1) We drop some "test" bombs on Slough to satisfy Betjeman.
>
> 2) We strap both Xah and r to aforementioned bombs.
> 
>
> 
> Also, I'm surprised no-one has mentioned Esperanto yet. Sounds like
> something r and Xah would *love*.
>
> Slightly off-topic - does anyone have a good recipe for getting
> thunderbird to kill whole threads for good? Either based on a rule or
> just some extension I can use?
>
> The Xah/r threads are like car crashes, I can't help but watch but my
> time could be better spent and I don't want to unsub the whole list.
> 

Please do not insult Xah. He spoke nothing in this threads. 

-- 
"After the divorce I gave Ginny and the kids more than the courts said I 
should."
		-- Johnny Fontane, "Chapter 1", page 36


From ecir.hana at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 19:29:45 2009
From: ecir.hana at gmail.com (Ecir Hana)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 16:29:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Executing python script stored as a string
Message-ID: <720b423c-7058-4605-96a0-b62f56aec791@s6g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

please, how to execute a python script stored as a string? But let me
impose several limitations, so simple "exec" wont work:

- if I understood it correctly defining a function in the string and
exec-ing it created the function in current scope. This is something I
really don't want

- simple exec also blocks the rest of the program

- I also would like the string to be able to use and return some parts
of the caller

So to give an example what I try to achieve:

result = []
def up(s):
  result.append(s.upper())

code = '''
up("abc")
print 'hello'
i = i + 3
def x(s):
  up(s)
x('def')
print i
'''

somehow_execute(code)

Couple of points:

- the script in string should behave just like any other ordinary
python script executed in separate process, except it should also know
about a function caller "up". Nothing else. (I read that something
similar is possible while embedding python into your C project - that
you could invoke the VM and provide some default "imports")

- if the other script runs in separate process how should it call the
remote function? And how to pass its arguments? I really hope I don't
have to serialize every communication, maybe I should use threading
instead of process? All I want is that running it wont block the
caller and that it cannot modify callers code/variables/scope (apart
from calling the predefined callers' functions). Or maybe even better,
let it block the caller but provide a way to stop its execution?

- how to know that the script finished? I was thinking about atexit()
- could it work here?

Think of it as a text editor with a special ability to execute its
content, while providing access of some of its functionality to the
script.

The reason I *think* I cannot just simple import the "editor" module
into the script is that the"editor" is GUI application and script
should have access to just this instance of editor.

Anyway, I hope I was not too confusing. Thanks for any help!


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Mon Aug 31 19:31:14 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 31 Aug 2009 23:31:14 GMT
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
References: 
	
Message-ID: <0025e0c6$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:21:22 -0700, zaur wrote:

> As a result of this debate is not whether we should conclude that there
> should be two types of integers in python: 1) immutable numbers, which
> behave as constant value; 2) mutable numbers, which behave as variable
> value?

What can you do with mutable numbers that you can't do with immutable 
ones, and why do you want to do it?



-- 
Steven


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Aug 31 19:52:35 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 31 Aug 2009 16:52:35 -0700
Subject: a popen question. Please help
References: <473423.84282.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4A9A65D7.4020308@tim.thechases.com>
	<50697b2c0908300449i65d22994ra6d63b0bbdb1d201@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
Tim Chase   wrote:
>
>Darn "standards" :-/

The wonderful thing about standards is that there are so many to choose
from.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I support family values -- Addams family values" --www.nancybuttons.com


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Aug 31 20:00:31 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 31 Aug 2009 17:00:31 -0700
Subject: Overriding iadd for dictionary like objects
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
RunThePun   wrote:
>On Aug 30, 10:33=A0pm, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
>> In article .com>,
>> RunThePun =A0 wrote:
>>>
>>>I made a DictMixin where the keys are filenames and the values are the
>>>file contents. It was very simple and easy to do thanks to DictMixin.
>>>
>>>For example this code writes "abc" in a file named "temp.txt" and
>>>prints the contents of the file named "swallow", these files are
>>>looked up/created/deleted in the directory "spam":
>>>>>> d =3D3D FilesDict('spam')
>>>>>> d['temp.txt'] =3D3D 'abc'
>>>>>> print(d['swallow'])
>>>
>>>My problem arose when I wanted to append a string to a file which
>>>using open(..., 'ab') would have been miles more efficient because I
>>>wouldn't have to read the entire file (__getitem__) and then write the
>>>entire file back (__setitem__). The files are expected to be as big as
>>>600 KB which will be appended 30 bytes at a time about 3 times a
>>>second. Performance-wise the system would probably work without open
>>>(..., 'ab') but it would be a real thrashing so the current solution
>>>uses a method "AddTo" as Robert suggested, sacrificing the neat
>>>getitem/setitem syntax.
>>
>> You can do mostly what you want, I think, by having __setitem__()
>> convert string values into FileProxy() objects that have an appropriate
>> __iadd__() method. =A0That brings a whole new set of problems, of course.
>
>I'm guessing you meant __getitem__, which is what Jan Kaliszewski
>suggested, but as you noted, would be a bit cumbersome in this case.

Actually, what I meant was __setitem__.  The idea is that you create the
proxy item when you add the data to the dict (wrapping the original
data), and the proxy has an __iadd__ method, which would allow you to do
the file append.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I support family values -- Addams family values" --www.nancybuttons.com


From trinh.vo at jpl.nasa.gov  Mon Aug 31 21:32:26 2009
From: trinh.vo at jpl.nasa.gov (Vo, Trinh (388C))
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 18:32:26 -0700
Subject: Python installation
Message-ID: <63E24D720DCE7246ABAA722B52D23CDF0153D3073233@ALTPHYEMBEVSP10.RES.AD.JPL>

Hello Python Users,

I am new to Python.  I have errors message when I installed Python.  I appreciate if you can help.

I download Python-2.6-2.  I then did the following steps:
./configure
make

In the second step "make", I had the following message:


Failed to find the necessary bits to build these modules:
_bsddb             _curses            _curses_panel
_hashlib           _sqlite3           _ssl
_tkinter           bsddb185           bz2
dbm                dl                 gdbm
imageop            readline           sunaudiodev
To find the necessary bits, look in setup.py in detect_modules() for the module's name.
I however still saw the binary python was installed in /usr/local/Python-2.6.2.  I tested, and it till run OK.  However, I am worried if the above message can cause any problem in  the future.  I have on my cluster:
X86_64
GCC version 4.1.2  (Red Hat 4.1.2-42)

Thank you,

Trinh Vo
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From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Mon Aug 31 22:26:26 2009
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 22:26:26 -0400
Subject: Python installation
In-Reply-To: <63E24D720DCE7246ABAA722B52D23CDF0153D3073233@ALTPHYEMBEVSP10.RES.AD.JPL>
References: <63E24D720DCE7246ABAA722B52D23CDF0153D3073233@ALTPHYEMBEVSP10.RES.AD.JPL>
Message-ID: 

On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 9:32 PM, Vo, Trinh (388C) wrote:
> Hello Python Users,
>
>
>
> I am new to Python.? I have errors message when I installed Python.? I
> appreciate if you can help.
>
>
>
> I download Python-2.6-2.? I then did the following steps:
>
> ./configure
>
> make
>
>
>
> In the second step ?make?, I had the following message:
>
>
>
>
>
> Failed to find the necessary bits to build these modules:
>
> _bsddb???????????? _curses??????????? _curses_panel
>
> _hashlib?????????? _sqlite3?????????? _ssl
>
> _tkinter?????????? bsddb185?????????? bz2
>
> dbm??????????????? dl???????????????? gdbm
>
> imageop??????????? readline?????????? sunaudiodev
>
> To find the necessary bits, look in setup.py in detect_modules() for the
> module's name.
>
> I however still saw the binary python was installed in
> /usr/local/Python-2.6.2.? I tested, and it till run OK.? However, I am
> worried if the above message can cause any problem in ?the future.? I have
> on my cluster:
>
> X86_64
>
> GCC version 4.1.2 ?(Red Hat 4.1.2-42)
>
It's only a problem if you want to use those modules. Personally, I
would rebuild it with some more of those (just install those libraries
and the dev versions if red hat keeps them separate) but Python can
run fine without them.

>
>
> Thank you,
>
>
>
> Trinh Vo
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>


From terry.yinzhe at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 22:37:10 2009
From: terry.yinzhe at gmail.com (Terry)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 19:37:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Return value of multiprocessing manager registerred function
References: <4337084f-cf9b-4b9c-a0cc-ba8f0821f31a@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <69078aec-d556-4a7b-963e-373fe0b39c9e@b18g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 31, 5:58?pm, jacopo  wrote:
> Hi Terry,
> I have just started working on similar things and I am strugling to
> find examples or documentations. So far I have found only the official
> documentation of the multiprocessing package. Would you be able to
> recommend me some good reference or a book. I dont want to overwhelm
> this newsgroup with questions... yet :)
> Regards, Jacopo
>
> On Aug 26, 4:22?am, Terry  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi,
>
> > I'm using the multiprocessing.manager to run proceduresremotely. It
> > all worked fine except I hope to have a different return value type.
>
> > The remote function calls always return a proxy, which when I need to
> > get the value it need to connect to the manager again to fetch it. But
> > I just need the value, not the proxy.
>
> > Can I just return the value instead of a proxy from a manager?
>
> > br, Terry
Hi Jacopo,
Well, I also have had a hard time to find any examples or document
except the official document. I had to read the multiprocessing source
code (they are all in python except the network connection parts). And
I found I need to hack it a little to get it work.
You can share your questions, and maybe it's common to most of us.

br, Terry


From terry.yinzhe at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 22:41:26 2009
From: terry.yinzhe at gmail.com (Terry)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 19:41:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: multiprocessing managers and socket connection.
References: <722664f1-81af-45da-ae40-070bca8f3ee0@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<0af6687a-e36d-47c3-af5e-7e66eacbb3ce@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com> 
	<7d8f3f17-3cd7-4eb1-b049-2990d638cc46@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6be90391-085f-4ba1-9ed4-88f77ad11c2d@e18g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 26, 7:25?pm, Chris  wrote:
> On Aug 25, 9:11?pm, Terry  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 25, 10:14?pm, Chris  wrote:
>
> > > I've been using multiprocessing managers and I really like the
> > > functionality.
>
> > > I have a question about reconnecting to a manager. I have a situation
> > > where I start on one machine (A) a manager that is listening and then
> > > on another machine (B) connects to that manager and uses its proxy
> > > object to call functions on the manager's computer; this all works as
> > > expected. But, if the manager from A shuts down, B's application won't
> > > notice because in the MP code it ignores socket error
> > > errno.ECONNREFUSED. If A becomes available again or is restarted, B
> > > doesn't automatically reconnect either and continue its operation.
> > > It's function is basically stopped.
>
> > > Here is the code from connection.py:
> > > while 1:
> > > ? ? ? ? try:
> > > ? ? ? ? ? ? s.connect(address)
> > > ? ? ? ? except socket.error, e:
> > > ? ? ? ? ? ? if e.args[0] != errno.ECONNREFUSED: # connection refused
> > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? debug('failed to connect to address %s', address)
> > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? raise
> > > ? ? ? ? ? ? time.sleep(0.01)
> > > ? ? ? ? else:
> > > ? ? ? ? ? ? break
>
> > > How can I have B automatically reconnect to A and continue its work
> > > once A is available again?
>
> > I think you need to retry repeatedly until successfully connected.
>
> > br, Terry
>
> I'm having issue after once connected. If the server goes down during
> a long-running connection. I would want to be notified so I could try
> to reconnect. I'm doing more experimenting now and will try to post an
> example.

Hi Chris,

Are you sure that the proxy object keeps a permanent connection to the
server?

br, Terry


From 71david at libero.it  Mon Aug 31 23:06:14 2009
From: 71david at libero.it (David)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 05:06:14 +0200
Subject: Why does this group have so much spam?
References: <7294bf8b-9819-4b6d-92b2-afc1c8042a06@x6g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<7l1wem586nhf.c8spq9wpqg99.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
	
	<171zfm8mhuokq.1e4ltdmqqfp01.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <121ziuuxjq6wq$.1vey8y61a3y3s$.dlg@40tude.net>

Il Mon, 31 Aug 2009 21:04:27 +0200, David ha scritto:


> Obviously the owner can not be charged 
I mean: can not be jailed for crimes made by the thief using his car.

D.


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 23:06:54 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 20:06:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Why does this group have so much spam?
References: <7294bf8b-9819-4b6d-92b2-afc1c8042a06@x6g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<7l1wem586nhf.c8spq9wpqg99.dlg@40tude.net>
	 
	
	
	<171zfm8mhuokq.1e4ltdmqqfp01.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 31, 2:04?pm, David <71da... at libero.it> wrote:
(snip)
> It's a question of point of view: in italy if a thief steals a car and
> causes an accident the car's owner's assurance (having a car assurance is
> mandatory) must refund the victims. That's because protections of victims is
> first priority.
> Obviously the owner can not be charged

Is the car owner not a victim too? :). i am ok with the filthy
insurance company paying as long as the owners rates don't increase.
But why can't we force the criminal into hard labor to pay back the
lost monies? Seems like that would serve justice to all parties...

> That's a problem of the computer owner. Why should the rest of the world be
> charged of *his* problem while keeping him safe from suffering any
> consequence?

No, why should spammers feel safe while doing their crimes? I say put
the pressure on criminals, and NOT the victims. I really doubt much is
being done to fight spam now that is why it is so prevalent. Two FBI
hackers can't keep up with billions of spams.

> Madness, you say? Let's examine the situation a bit moore deeply.
>
> First, the mail-tax would is not for rebuilding the destroyed building after
> the attack but, at the opposite, to prevent the attack. Wouldn't you pay a
> small tax to prevent terrorist's attacks?

Only if that tax was given to highly trained US Marines who where
given a green light to use any and all methods to brutally kill the
enemy and make an example of him with no worry of prosecution by their
own government.

> The mail-tax would be really small, if you send 1000 mails at month (a real
> huge traffic, for a non spammer!) the bill would be about 10 cents.
> Do you really think this is too much to get rid of most of the spam?

I don't think that will stop most spammers since they must be making
more that a 10c a month profit or they would starve to death! I say
why not put a 1000.00 fine on any idiot that responds to a spam! What
about that?

> We are paying and hidden tax in terms of HW and human resources needed by
> ISPs to manage that huge (~90%) useless/malicius traffic. (I don't mention
> const related to dalays, denial of services, theft of informations...)
(...snip)

The system is definitely flawed. I am no internet expert so i don't
really know what we could do to fix it. I do fear goverment or
corporations taking over of the internet and robbing use of our
freedom of speech under the pretense that they will *somehow* save us
from the spammers. Something must be done however.

I *do* know however that M$ windows ships with its back doors wide
open and you could put a lot of blame of M$ for this stupidity! And
since their product is meant for computing morons why do they still
ship it in such a vulnerable state... complete madness!

> Finally a little criticims: spam and related malware is a problem growing
> day by day. I am proposing a solution and if somebody doest't like it, well,
> he should propose a better one. Just saying "NO!" and turning head aside
> hoping that the problem will solve by itsef is no more acceptable.
(snip)

I agree with you, we must do something...






From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Aug 31 23:31:35 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 01 Sep 2009 03:31:35 GMT
Subject: Executing python script stored as a string
References: <720b423c-7058-4605-96a0-b62f56aec791@s6g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 16:29:45 -0700, Ecir Hana wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> please, how to execute a python script stored as a string? But let me
> impose several limitations, so simple "exec" wont work:
> 
> - if I understood it correctly defining a function in the string and
> exec-ing it created the function in current scope. This is something I
> really don't want


You can pass in a global and local namespaces to exec as arguments:

>>> x = 4
>>> ns = {'x': 4}
>>> exec "x += 1" in ns
>>> x
4
>>> ns['x']
5


See the docs for details.


> - simple exec also blocks the rest of the program


Run it in a thread.


> - I also would like the string to be able to use and return some parts
> of the caller

You can copy the parts of the current scope into the namespace you pass 
to exec, then later copy the revised values out again.

But are you sure you really want to take this approach? exec is up to ten 
times slower than just executing the code directly. And if the string is 
coming from an untrusted source, it is a *huge* security risk.



> Couple of points:
> 
> - the script in string should behave just like any other ordinary python
> script executed in separate process, except it should also know about a
> function caller "up". Nothing else. (I read that something similar is
> possible while embedding python into your C project - that you could
> invoke the VM and provide some default "imports")

If you want it to execute in a separate *process*, that's a whole 
different question. If you do that, you get separation of code for free, 
as well as separate namespaces. My approach would be to have a special 
module "common" which subprocesses can import, to get access to the 
shared functions. You will probably need to create some sort of message 
passing infrastructure to get results out of the subprocess into the 
parent process. 


> - if the other script runs in separate process how should it call the
> remote function? And how to pass its arguments? I really hope I don't
> have to serialize every communication, maybe I should use threading
> instead of process? 

If you want separate processes, they're *separate*. Threads are not.


> All I want is that running it wont block the caller
> and that it cannot modify callers code/variables/scope (apart from
> calling the predefined callers' functions). Or maybe even better, let it
> block the caller but provide a way to stop its execution?

As far as I know, you can't kill threads, you can only ask them to kill 
themselves.


> - how to know that the script finished? I was thinking about atexit() -
> could it work here?

I doubt it. You would need to poll each thread to see if it has completed.



> Think of it as a text editor with a special ability to execute its
> content, while providing access of some of its functionality to the
> script.

Something like this?

In the text editor, you have contents:

text goes here
and more text
# Python script starts here
x = 'a'
up(x)
print "foo"
# Python script stops here
more text again


and the user selects lines 4 and 5 and chooses the command "Execute". The 
script executes, and its output (foo) is appended to the end of the file:

text goes here
and more text
# Python script starts here
x = 'a'
up(x)
print "foo"
# Python script stops here
more text again
foo

Is this what you mean?

If so, I think you are making this much too complicated for such a simple 
use-case. Just publish an API which the script can use, and have the main 
text editor application specify a "script" namespace containing only that 
API. That could be a module:

>>> import math  # pretend this is your API shared module
>>> exec "myvalue = 42" in math.__dict__
>>> math.myvalue
42



Then execute the text using exec, but don't bother about putting it into 
a thread or subprocess. That just makes it harder to implement, and you 
have to worry about concurrency issues.



-- 
Steven


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Sat Aug  1 00:04:27 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 01:04:27 -0300
Subject: problem on socket programming
References: 
	<3de0863c-15ef-4153-8d0f-6b7a438b98f5@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<67ec3e6d-0995-459a-a7a5-3bc296729664@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<7dg2niF2bue0tU2@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<5dbf451d-a289-40d1-83db-ce655d47f698@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<7dg55pF2bfubpU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	<72f851f9-a2d4-4448-900d-3fe20e4ebeb0@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

En Fri, 31 Jul 2009 10:43:49 -0300, MalC0de   
escribi?:

> none of you can't interpret it ? do you have errors like me !?

Have you tried Diez B. Roggisch suggestion? :

>> Can you ping and telnet to the port on the desired server?
>> Firewalls can be an issue here.

The official doc page for the socket module contains a working example of  
an echo client/server program like yours:

http://docs.python.org/library/socket.html#example

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From emmanuel.surleau at gmail.com  Sat Aug  1 00:20:28 2009
From: emmanuel.surleau at gmail.com (Emmanuel Surleau)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 06:20:28 +0200
Subject: Confessions of a Python fanboy
In-Reply-To: <008f7990$0$9756$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 
	
	<008f7990$0$9756$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <200908010620.28665.emmanuel.surleau@gmail.com>

On Saturday 01 August 2009 03:46:12 Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 20:41:12 +0200, Emmanuel Surleau wrote:
> >> We don't actually *declare* that something is constant and then have
> >> that declaration ignored. Python doesn't lie to us, although (as in any
> >> language) a programmer might.
> >
> > You could say that Ruby doesn't either,
>
> Well you could say a lot of things. Admittedly you don't need a separate
> "constant" declaration, but creating a variable name with an initial
> uppercase letter is sufficient to make it a (supposed) constant:

*shrugs* I see it as a way to encourage (but not force) people to follow a 
coding convention. Is this such a bad thing?

> irb(main):049:0* Thing = 5
> => 5
> irb(main):050:0> Thing = 7
> (irb):50: warning: already initialized constant Thing
> => 7
>
> As you can see, Ruby (well, irb at least) considers that Thing is a
> constant, and then goes ahead and changes it anyway.

I'm quite aware of how constants work in Ruby, yes :)

> Apart from the use of an arbitrary naming convention instead of an
> explicit "make this constant" declaration, and the feeble way Ruby
> capitulates when you change it, I think having actual write-once
> constants is actually a plus.

Nothing wrong with naming conventions. This encourages a uniform coding style, 
something which Python could really use.

> > you just need to read the
> > documentation. Ruby's unwritten motto is "flexibility ?ber alles". In
> > this regard, it is consistent (1).
>
> "It's consistent in its inconsistency" sort of thing perhaps?

No, just consistent.

> > Not much is really bolted down in
> > Ruby. You get encapsulation, but it's so easy to break that it's mostly
> > symbolic.
>
> Out of curiosity, can you read/write class and instance attributes from
> outside the class without using a getter/setter?

If you have an instance f class with a attribute @foo which doesn't have an 
accessor, you could do:

f.instance_eval("@foo='bar'")

And yes, instance_eval is evil.

Cheers,

Emm


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Sat Aug  1 00:48:50 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 01:48:50 -0300
Subject: Newbie Question regarding __init__()
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

En Sat, 01 Aug 2009 00:13:05 -0300, Nat Williams   
escribi?:

> One other thing.  I'm a little confused by the first line of
> dcObject.__init__:
>
> self.init_Pre() and self.init_Exec()
>
> I suspect this does not do what you think it does.  init_Pre and  
> init_Exec
> will both be called by this expression (unless init_Pre throws an  
> exception,
> of course).  You're not getting anything here that you wouldn't by just
> calling each method on a separate line, except just making it harder to
> read.

Well, perhaps Simon didn't grasp Python's syntax and semantics very well  
yet, but his code would work as designed after fixing obvious errors:

class dcObject(object):
     """Base Object"""
     def __init__(self):
         """default init method has the form
         of init_Pre() and init_Exec
         init_Post()"""
         self.init_Pre() and self.init_Exec()
         self.init_Post()

     def init_Pre(self):
         """Always called before init_Exec()
         if it returns false init_Exec is
         not executed"""
         return True

     def init_Exec(self):
         """Base __init__ code goes here and this is
         only executed if init_Pre() returns true"""
         return True

     def init_Post(self):
         """Always called after the init_Pre() and
         init_Exec()"""
         return True

init_Pre might return False, in that case init_Exec would not be executed.  
init_Post is always called. And that's exactly what the docstrings say.

I would use an `if` statement instead:
if self.init_Pre(): self.init_Exec()
and make init_Exec and init_Post not return anything if they have no  
intrinsic meaning. And probably use better names. But basically the  
structure is OK.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From nad at acm.org  Sat Aug  1 00:55:34 2009
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 21:55:34 -0700
Subject: Python docs disappointing
References: 
	
	<4A73AAE3.1050209@tim.thechases.com> 
Message-ID: 

In article , Terry Reedy  
wrote:
> This is one area where Windows users seems to have an advantage. The 
> standard installer includes the doc set as a Windows help file. I often 
> keep that open in one window while programming in others. I only later 
> discovered that this was a copy of the online docs ;-), which I only use 
> to check the in-development version before submitting a doc bug.

The python.org Mac OS X installers include the complete documentation 
set for that version in HTML; the IDLE Help menu will open the front 
page in a browser (from where you can bookmark it for later use).

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org



From riaz.ahmadskh at gmail.com  Sat Aug  1 03:02:51 2009
From: riaz.ahmadskh at gmail.com (Riaz Ahmad)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 00:02:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: "ADMISSION IN FA  FSC" "ADMISSION IN FA/FSC" "ADMISSION IN GC 
	UNIVERSITY LAHORE" "ADMISSION IN SCIENCE COLLEGE LAHORE" "ADMISSION IN
	KIPS LAHORE" "ADMISSION IN LEADERSHIP COLLEGE LAHORE" "ADMISSION IN
	BAHAUDDIN ZAKARIYA UNIVERSITY MULTAN"
Message-ID: <38954c7f-1af5-4739-8982-6193b280d4da@d36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

"ADMISSION IN FA  FSC"


www.admissionspk.blogspot.com


"ADMISSION IN FA/FSC"


www.admissionspk.blogspot.com


 "ADMISSION IN GC UNIVERSITY LAHORE"



www.admissionspk.blogspot.com


 "ADMISSION IN SCIENCE COLLEGE LAHORE"


www.admissionspk.blogspot.com


 "ADMISSION IN KIPS LAHORE"


www.admissionspk.blogspot.com


"ADMISSION IN LEADERSHIP COLLEGE LAHORE"

www.admissionspk.blogspot.com

 "ADMISSION IN BAHAUDDIN ZAKARIYA UNIVERSITY MULTAN"

www.admissionspk.blogspot.com





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From robertrobert93 at yahoo.com  Sat Aug  1 03:34:58 2009
From: robertrobert93 at yahoo.com (Robert Robert)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 00:34:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: fil open close very slow
Message-ID: <950181.91001.qm@web59306.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

hiya all,
I have a "large" script written in python. There is in that big script at a certain point a loop in which I create a lots of simple small text files. Each text file just contain I think 4 or 5 short lines. When I simply run it in IDLE, it runs fast. But when?I compile it to binary files, it becomes very slow. I turned on the profiler and discorvered it was slow at the open() and close() calls. I removed those calls to confirm this, and yes my program runs very fast then. Does anyone has an idea or suggestion why this can be possible. I only compile them to .pyc files, which as what I see, when I normally run in IDLe these files are created as well, so I really got no clue.
rh.


      
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From rt8396 at gmail.com  Sat Aug  1 03:53:51 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 00:53:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: possible to round number and convert to string?
References: <24763821.post@talk.nabble.com>
	<4a737350$0$28514$4fafbaef@reader2.news.tin.it> 
	
Message-ID: <4e60ee41-44a2-4e23-b3dd-70a8549026e0@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On Jul 31, 7:42?pm, "Dr. Phillip M. Feldman" 
wrote:
> This was very close to what I wanted. ?Thanks! ?My final code looks like
> this:
>
> def num2str(x,f=4):
> ? ?"""Convert x (int or float) to a string with f digits to right of
> ? ?the decimal point. ?f may be zero or negative, in which case the decimal
> ? ?point is suppressed."""
> ? ?s= str(round(x,f))
> ? ?if f<=0:
> ? ? ? # Delete decimal point:
> ? ? ? i= s.find('.')
> ? ? ? if i>0: s= s[:i]
> ? ?return s


Is it *really* necessary to create a named function for something as
trivial as this?

>>> import math
>>> '%0.3f' %math.pi
'3.142'
>>> '%d' %math.pi
'3'

Seems string formatting is more "pythonic" -- opps, now why did i have
to go and say that... :)


From dickinsm at gmail.com  Sat Aug  1 04:36:11 2009
From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 01:36:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: possible to round number and convert to string?
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Jul 31, 11:17?pm, "Dr. Phillip M. Feldman" 
wrote:
> I'd like to be able to convert a float to a string representation in which
> the number is rounded to a specified number of digits. ?If num2str is a
> hypothetical function that does this, then num2str(pi,3) would be '3.142'
> (not '3.141').

Python's string formatting does exactly this.

Python 2.6.2 (r262:71600, Jul  8 2009, 09:56:31)
[GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Inc. build 5490)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> num2str = '{0:.{1}f}'.format
>>> num2str(3.14159, 3)
'3.142'

(In Python 3.1, num2str = '{:.{}f}'.format  is enough.)


Mark


From john_re at fastmail.us  Sat Aug  1 04:52:28 2009
From: john_re at fastmail.us (john_re)
Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 01:52:28 -0700
Subject: Aug 1 & 16- Global VOIP Free SW HW Culture meeting, BerkeleyTIP, For
	Forwarding
Message-ID: <1249116748.25769.1327808157@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Interested in joining the friendly global Free SW HW & Culture communities in a global Voice meeting?  You?re invited. :)

You can join from your home, or better: get a local meeting together. Tip: a college WiFi cafe could be a great local meeting place.  Make sure you have a VOIP headset!

For all details, see the website (I?m leaving out many sublinks to make this email smaller).
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip

Start by joining #berkeleytip on IRC freenode.net.  We?ll help you get your VOIP connection working. :)

=====  MARK YOUR CALENDARS: 1st Sat & 3rd Sunday each month. August 1 & 16.
10A - 6P Pacific US time (+7H GMT, IIRC)
= 1P-9P Eastern US time = 5P - 1A GMT ?

Or, come to the local meeting on the UC Berkeley campus.
NOTE: SPECIAL LOCATION AUG 1: SEE BTIP WEBSITE FOR LOCATION,
& RSVP TO ME OR THE BTIP LISTS.

AUG 1 MEETING WILL BE 12N - 3P AT THE BTIP VOIP SERVER LOCATION 
ON THE UCB CAMPUS.  SEE THE WEBSITE FOR ROOM LOCATION.
We?ll hack on the new BTIP Asterisk VOIP server, in its presence.

PLEASE RSVP TO ME (John) OR THE LIST IF YOU WANT TO MEET AT OUR
USUAL LOCATION, THE FREE SPEECH CAFE, 10A-12n, 3-6PM,
(otherwise i might not be there).

=====  MEETING TOPICS FOR AUGUST:
1) Whatever _you_ want to work on - Email the BTIPGlobal list & 
let us know what your interests are.
2) Our VOIP conference server, using Asterisk.
3) Planning for year 2.

=====  JOIN FOR THE START OF YEAR 2 GLOBAL MEETINGs:
We had a great first year.  We had local attendees from around the San Francisco Bay Area & Northern California.  High School, College, Grad Students, & working & retired people attended.

>From the US, people joined the meeting (IRC or VOIP) from Hawaii to Virgina, Washington to Michigan to Florida. (+ California & other states.)

Globally, Sweden, Germany, England, Ireland, Iran & India (& maybe others I don?t recall right now.) :)

In May Richard Stallman joined the global meeting for Q & A about free SW & HW.

== YEAR 2 FOCUS: COLLEGE LOCAL MEETINGS, & AMERICAS? ANNOUNCEMENTS.

Two main things I?ll focus on this year:
1) Inviting groups to join at colleges & universities - BTIP is educational.  My hope: if more students learn about free SW hw & culture, some of them will then go on to become _contributors_. :)

2) I?ll try to get monthly announcements out to the biggest LUGs in the 10 largest countries in the Americas.

== What would _YOU_ like to accomplish this year?  Email the BTIP mail list, say ?hi?, tell us about your interests, projects & desires.

=====  FOR FORWARDING - You are invited to forward this announcement wherever you think it might be appreciated.


From hitechpundir at gmail.com  Sat Aug  1 05:22:28 2009
From: hitechpundir at gmail.com (sirjee)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 02:22:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: problem in event handling on change of  variable value.
Message-ID: <9c0d7a31-0310-4499-9974-92afc588f315@d15g2000prc.googlegroups.com>

hello;

i m facing a problem in handling events on change of value of
environment variable in a tool CANoe.

class CANoeEvents:
    def OnChange(self,value):
        print "value of environment variable has changed"
    def OnOpen(self,App):
        print "opening Application"

App_Event = DispatchWithEvents('CANoe.Application',CANoeEvents)
time.sleep(2)
App_Event.Open("C:\projectConfig.cfg")  # printd "opening Application"
and event handled properly.
.......(now a code file runs in the canoe in which value of
environment variable called dummy is changed during execution. Just
like OnOpen; OnChange is defined in specification which should be
called on change of environment variable.But it is not happening.)
while ():
                myenvVar = App_Event.Environment.GetVariable("dummy")

The VB does it very easily and defines a subroutine called :
Sub myenvVar _OnChange(value)
   print "value of environment variable has changed"
End Sub
//////////////////////////////////////////////////however the
alternative for subroutine for OnOpen in VB (defined below) works fine
as shown above in python.
Sub AppEvent_OnOpen(App)
        print "opening Application"
End Sub

for VB; all this stuff is cake work.... object_eventname subroutine
and done.....what in python?


From paul at subsignal.org  Sat Aug  1 05:28:32 2009
From: paul at subsignal.org (paul)
Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 11:28:32 +0200
Subject: socket policy flash help
In-Reply-To: <04e26f53-5f51-476d-823e-47bfeed9b2a8@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
References: <04e26f53-5f51-476d-823e-47bfeed9b2a8@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

NighterNet schrieb:
> I need help on the policy to able to let access to user to the server
> once the policy access is finish. I been trying to find a good
> example, but I got no luck. Using python version 3.1.
> 
> Here the code I tested but it not working.
> 
> if str(buff) == str("b\'\\x00\'"):
> 				print ('policy FOUND >>> sending...')
> 				rawinput = str(' access-from domain=\"*\" to-ports=\"*\" />')
> 				print (rawinput)
> 				b = bytes ( ord(c) for c in rawinput)
> 				self.sockfd.send(b);
And the error is? Doesn't Flash use http as transport?

cheers
  Paul



From davea at ieee.org  Sat Aug  1 05:52:11 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 05:52:11 -0400
Subject: Newbie Question regarding __init__()
In-Reply-To: 
References: 		
	
Message-ID: <4A74104B.7080403@ieee.org>

Nat Williams wrote:
> As MRAB described, ALL instance methods need to accept 'self' as a first
> parameter, as that will be passed to them implicitly when they are called.
> This includes __init__.  The name 'self' is just a commonly accepted
> convention for the name of the instance object passed to methods.  You don't
> have to call it that, but you really should.
>
> Take a look at http://docs.python.org/tutorial/classes.html#class-objects
> It might help shed some light on how methods and instances work.
>
> One other thing.  I'm a little confused by the first line of
> dcObject.__init__:
>
> self.init_Pre() and self.init_Exec()
>
> I suspect this does not do what you think it does.  init_Pre and init_Exec
> will both be called by this expression (unless init_Pre throws an exception,
> of course).  You're not getting anything here that you wouldn't by just
> calling each method on a separate line, except just making it harder to
> read.
>
>   
Read the doc-string for init_Pre() and for init_Exec().  The final 
version of init_Pre() will return False in some circumstances, and in 
those circumstances Simon doesn't want init_Exec() to be called.  He's 
deliberately using the short-circuit evaluation of  'and'  to accomplish 
that.

>
> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 8:53 PM, Simon  wrote:
>
>   
>> Hi
>>
>> So should the dcObject class include the "self" as well since I have
>> not defined an __init__ method in dcCursor?
>>
>> Simon
>>
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>>     
>
>   
Every one of those methods in both of those classes need a "self" first 
argument.  As others have said, all instance methods need a 'self.'




From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Aug  1 05:57:13 2009
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 02:57:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Confused About Python Loggin
References: <534A6695-37D9-4200-9872-9E844AE50681@cs.ucl.ac.uk> 
	<14CCA71D-F575-4B8A-8C99-67BDAAC2C6E0@cs.ucl.ac.uk>
	
Message-ID: 

On Jul 31, 2:04?pm, Jean-Michel Pichavant 
wrote:
> Jannik Sund? wrote:
> > Hi all. I think I fixed this problem by setting fileLogger.propagate =
> > 0. Otherwise it will propagate up to the root logger, which outputs to
> > stdout, as far as I can understand.
>
> > On 31 Jul 2009, at 01:17, Jannik Sund? wrote:
>
> >> Dear all, I am quite confused about the Pythonlogging. I have read
> >> and re-read the Python documentation for the Pythonloggingmodule
> >> and googled, but to no avail. I simply want one logger to log to a
> >> file and another logger to log to the console. Neither should log the
> >> other's messages. The code below causes fileLogger to log to BOTH a
> >> file and the console, how come? It seems to me that a call such as
> >> "consoleHandler =logging.StreamHandler()" affects other loggers,
> >> which I do not want. Also, if I do not do
> >>logging.basicConfig(level=logging.INFO) in one of the classes of my
> >> application, theloggingdoes not work. Any ideas how come?
>
> >> Thanks a lot for any help! :)
>
> >> fileHandler =logging.FileHandler('../../logs/log.txt')
> >> fileLogger =logging.getLogger('TESTHARNESSFILE')
> >> fileLogger.addHandler(fileHandler)
> >> fileLogger.setLevel(logging.INFO)
> >> consoleHandler =logging.StreamHandler()
> >> logger =logging.getLogger('TESTHARNESS')
> >> logger.addHandler(consoleHandler)
> >> logger.setLevel(logging.INFO)
>
> > --http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
> Please do not top post :o)
>
> Are sure you have used the code provided above ?
> Loggers only propagate events to its parent.
>
> fileLogger =logging.getLogger('TESTHARNESSFILE"
> logger =logging.getLogger('TESTHARNESS')
> Those one have no parent relationship.
>
> However these one have parent relationship:
> fileLogger =logging.getLogger('TESTHARNESS.FILE") # note the dotted name
> logger =logging.getLogger('TESTHARNESS')
>
> Or maybe you have added a handler to the root logger...
>
> Using the propagate attribute is correct only between 2 loggers that are
> meant to be parents.
>
> JM

What you say is true, Jean-Michel, but the OP might be meaning the
parent-child relationship both his loggers have with the mother of all
loggers - the root logger ;-)

Regards,

Vinay Sajip


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Sat Aug  1 07:52:16 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 13:52:16 +0200
Subject: socket policy flash help
References: <04e26f53-5f51-476d-823e-47bfeed9b2a8@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

>>>>> NighterNet  (N) wrote:

>N> I need help on the policy to able to let access to user to the server
>N> once the policy access is finish. I been trying to find a good
>N> example, but I got no luck. Using python version 3.1.

>N> Here the code I tested but it not working.

>N> if str(buff) == str("b\'\\x00\'"):

What is buff supposed to contain here? I assume a byte sequence?
Do you reaaly mean that buff[0] contains the byte 'b' and buff[1]
contains a single quote? And the last byte also a single quote? And the
four bytes with \ x 0 0 before that instead of a null byte? In total 29 bytes?

Or did you mean just the 23 bytes long b'\x00'?

Maybe it should be if buff == b'\x00':

>N> 				print ('policy FOUND >>> sending...')
>N> 				rawinput = str('')

The str here is unnecessary as you have already a string.

>N> 				print (rawinput)
>N> 				b = bytes ( ord(c) for c in rawinput)

Why not 
b = b'' ?

>N> 				self.sockfd.send(b);

-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From tarundevnani at gmail.com  Sat Aug  1 09:32:53 2009
From: tarundevnani at gmail.com (tarun)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 19:02:53 +0530
Subject: How to read webpage
Message-ID: 

Dear All,I want to read a webpage and copy the contents of it in word file.
I tried to write following code:

import urllib2
urllib2.urlopen("http://www.rediff .com/")

*Error:-*

    urllib2.urlopen("http://www.icicibank.com/")
  File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 121, in urlopen
    return _opener.open(url, data)
  File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 374, in open
    response = self._open(req, data)
  File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 392, in _open
    '_open', req)
  File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 353, in _call_chain
    result = func(*args)
  File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 1100, in http_open
    return self.do_open(httplib.HTTPConnection, req)
  File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 1075, in do_open
    raise URLError(err)
urllib2.URLError: 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Aug  1 09:52:17 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 14:52:17 +0100
Subject: How to read webpage
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A744891.7050808@mrabarnett.plus.com>

tarun wrote:
> Dear All,
> I want to read a webpage and copy the contents of it in word file. I 
> tried to write following code:
> 
> import urllib2
> urllib2.urlopen("http://www.rediff.com/")
> 
> *Error:-*
> 
>     urllib2.urlopen("http://www.icicibank.com/")
>   File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 121, in urlopen
>     return _opener.open(url, data)
>   File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 374, in open
>     response = self._open(req, data)
>   File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 392, in _open
>     '_open', req)
>   File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 353, in _call_chain
>     result = func(*args)
>   File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 1100, in http_open
>     return self.do_open(httplib.HTTPConnection, req)
>   File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 1075, in do_open
>     raise URLError(err)
> urllib2.URLError: 
> 
I've just tried it. I didn't get an exception, so your problem must be
elsewhere.


From koranthala at gmail.com  Sat Aug  1 11:19:28 2009
From: koranthala at gmail.com (koranthala)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 08:19:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to read webpage
References:  
	
Message-ID: <67de4ef0-0da7-47e6-8e2e-23be4a6b452c@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 1, 6:52?pm, MRAB  wrote:
> tarun wrote:
> > Dear All,
> > I want to read a webpage and copy the contents of it in word file. I
> > tried to write following code:
>
> > import urllib2
> > urllib2.urlopen("http://www.rediff.com/")
>
> > *Error:-*
>
> > ? ? urllib2.urlopen("http://www.icicibank.com/")
> > ? File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 121, in urlopen
> > ? ? return _opener.open(url, data)
> > ? File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 374, in open
> > ? ? response = self._open(req, data)
> > ? File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 392, in _open
> > ? ? '_open', req)
> > ? File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 353, in _call_chain
> > ? ? result = func(*args)
> > ? File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 1100, in http_open
> > ? ? return self.do_open(httplib.HTTPConnection, req)
> > ? File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 1075, in do_open
> > ? ? raise URLError(err)
> > urllib2.URLError: 
>
> I've just tried it. I didn't get an exception, so your problem must be
> elsewhere.

Is it that the website expects a valid browser?
In that case, spoof a browser and try to get the site.


From joncle at googlemail.com  Sat Aug  1 11:31:09 2009
From: joncle at googlemail.com (Jon Clements)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 08:31:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to read webpage
References:  
	
Message-ID: <7690d42e-ea99-4aec-9029-5cfae119ffcf@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On 1 Aug, 14:52, MRAB  wrote:
> tarun wrote:
> > Dear All,
> > I want to read a webpage and copy the contents of it in word file. I
> > tried to write following code:
>
> > import urllib2
> > urllib2.urlopen("http://www.rediff.com/")
>
> > *Error:-*
>
> > ? ? urllib2.urlopen("http://www.icicibank.com/")
> > ? File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 121, in urlopen
> > ? ? return _opener.open(url, data)
> > ? File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 374, in open
> > ? ? response = self._open(req, data)
> > ? File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 392, in _open
> > ? ? '_open', req)
> > ? File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 353, in _call_chain
> > ? ? result = func(*args)
> > ? File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 1100, in http_open
> > ? ? return self.do_open(httplib.HTTPConnection, req)
> > ? File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 1075, in do_open
> > ? ? raise URLError(err)
> > urllib2.URLError: 
>
> I've just tried it. I didn't get an exception, so your problem must be
> elsewhere.

I'm hoping this adds to MRAB's reply; it is intended however for the
OP.

Jeeze -- been a while since I've had to deal with Sockets (directly
anyway).
If memory serves correctly, it's where the system can't name resolve
the required address.
So best guess is it's either a temporary glitch, or an issue with your
routing.

Jon.
Jon.


From darkneter at gmail.com  Sat Aug  1 11:34:57 2009
From: darkneter at gmail.com (NighterNet)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 08:34:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: socket policy flash help
References: <04e26f53-5f51-476d-823e-47bfeed9b2a8@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <8bede581-f260-4c69-abf0-1e8071380b76@z4g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 1, 4:52?am, Piet van Oostrum  wrote:
> >>>>> NighterNet  (N) wrote:
> >N> I need help on the policy to able to let access to user to the server
> >N> once the policy access is finish. I been trying to find a good
> >N> example, but I got no luck. Using python version 3.1.
> >N> Here the code I tested but it not working.
> >N> if str(buff) == str("b\'\\x00\'"):
>
> What is buff supposed to contain here? I assume a byte sequence?
> Do you reaaly mean that buff[0] contains the byte 'b' and buff[1]
> contains a single quote? And the last byte also a single quote? And the
> four bytes with \ x 0 0 before that instead of a null byte? In total 29 bytes?
>
> Or did you mean just the 23 bytes long b'\x00'?
>
> Maybe it should be if buff == b'\x00':
>
> >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print ('policy FOUND >>> sending...')
> >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? rawinput = str('')
>
> The str here is unnecessary as you have already a string.
>
> >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print (rawinput)
> >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? b = bytes ( ord(c) for c in rawinput)
>
> Why not
> b = b'' ?
>
> >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? self.sockfd.send(b);
>
> --
> Piet van Oostrum 
> URL:http://pietvanoostrum.com[PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
> Private email: p... at vanoostrum.org


I try that method and flash socket is not getting the policy.

b = b''
self.sockfd.send(b);

server = socket.socket( socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)

When it able to read the policy it send it but it fail to send to
flash some reason and send it again and then d/c.


From marcusw at cox.net  Sat Aug  1 11:43:15 2009
From: marcusw at cox.net (Marcus Wanner)
Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 11:43:15 -0400
Subject: How to read webpage
In-Reply-To: <7690d42e-ea99-4aec-9029-5cfae119ffcf@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	<7690d42e-ea99-4aec-9029-5cfae119ffcf@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On 8/1/2009 11:31 AM, Jon Clements wrote:
> On 1 Aug, 14:52, MRAB  wrote:
>> tarun wrote:
>>> Dear All,
>>> I want to read a webpage and copy the contents of it in word file. I
>>> tried to write following code:
>>> import urllib2
>>> urllib2.urlopen("http://www.rediff.com/")
>>> *Error:-*
>>>     urllib2.urlopen("http://www.icicibank.com/")
>>>   File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 121, in urlopen
>>>     return _opener.open(url, data)
>>>   File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 374, in open
>>>     response = self._open(req, data)
>>>   File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 392, in _open
>>>     '_open', req)
>>>   File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 353, in _call_chain
>>>     result = func(*args)
>>>   File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 1100, in http_open
>>>     return self.do_open(httplib.HTTPConnection, req)
>>>   File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 1075, in do_open
>>>     raise URLError(err)
>>> urllib2.URLError: 
>> I've just tried it. I didn't get an exception, so your problem must be
>> elsewhere.
> 
> I'm hoping this adds to MRAB's reply; it is intended however for the
> OP.
> 
> Jeeze -- been a while since I've had to deal with Sockets (directly
> anyway).
> If memory serves correctly, it's where the system can't name resolve
> the required address.
> So best guess is it's either a temporary glitch, or an issue with your
> routing.
> 
> Jon.
> Jon.

'getaddrinfo failed' means that the nameserver can't be found, or that 
it has no records of that address (I'm 90% sure of that).

Marcus


From nobody at nowhere.com  Sat Aug  1 13:11:18 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 18:11:18 +0100
Subject: Python docs disappointing
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 20:10:45 +0000, kj wrote:

> I'm pretty new to Python, and I like a lot overall, but I find the
> documentation for Python rather poor, overall.

FWIW, I find the module documentation to be mostly adequate.

What's missing is a human-readable language *manual*. The tutorial omits
too much; the language reference may be fine for language lawyering,
but it's not much use otherwise.



From MatzeGuentert at gmx.de  Sat Aug  1 13:16:14 2009
From: MatzeGuentert at gmx.de (Matthias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=FCntert?=)
Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 19:16:14 +0200
Subject: M2Crypto: AttributeError: 'CSR' object has no attribute 'pkey'
Message-ID: <1249146974.3330.1.camel@celsius>

Hello python-guys

I am trying to build a python based certificate authority using
m2crypto. I am quite new to python and I am asking myself why my code
snippets below throw the following Traceback:

$ python csr.py

...++++++++++++
...............++++++++++++
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "csr.py", line 48, in 
    csr.create_cert_signing_request(pubkey, cert_name)
  File "csr.py", line 17, in create_cert_signing_request
    cert_request.set_pubkey(keypair)
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/M2Crypto/X509.py", line 926,
in set_pubkey
    return m2.x509_req_set_pubkey( self.req, pkey.pkey )
AttributeError: 'CSR' object has no attribute 'pkey'

Bellow are my modules containing two classes CSR and Keypair. There
seems to be something wrong in the way I am calling
csr.create_cert_signing_request(), because if I directly add the key
generation part to the create_cert_singing_request function it works... 

http://www.heikkitoivonen.net/m2crypto/api/M2Crypto.X509.Request-class.html#set_pubkey

This link states out, that the instance function set_pubkey takes an
EVP_KEY object as argument, and thats what I am passing to it, or not? 

I really would be happy if someone could give me a helping hand on this
and maybe could comment every style / ... mistake I made to accelerate
my learning experience. 

Thanks,
Matthias 

$ cat csr.py

from config import *
from keypair import *
from M2Crypto import X509, EVP

class CSR(object):
    def __init__(self):
        pass

    def create_cert_signing_request(keypair, cert_name,
cert_extension_stack=None):
        # create a certificate signing request object
        cert_request = X509.Request()

        # set certificate version to 3
        cert_request.set_version(3)

        # which rsa public key should be used?
        cert_request.set_pubkey(keypair)

        # create an subject for the certificate request
        cert_request.set_subject_name(cert_name)

        if cert_extension_stack != None:
            # add the extensions to the request
            cert_request.add_extensions(cert_extension_stack)

        # sign the request using the RSA key pair
        cert_request.sign(keypair, 'sha1')

        return cert_request

if __name__ == "__main__":
    csr = CSR()
    cert_name = X509.X509_Name()
    keyp = Keypair()

    keyp.create_keypair()
    keyp.save_keypair("host.key")
    pubkey = keyp.get_keypair()

    cert_name.C = "GB"
    cert_name.ST = "Greater Manchester"
    cert_name.L = "Salford"
    cert_name.O = "COMODO CA Limited"
    cert_name.CN = "COMODO Certification Authority"
    cert_name.OU = "Information Technology"
    cert_name.Email = "contact at comodo.com"

    csr.create_cert_signing_request(pubkey, cert_name)

$ cat keypair.py

from M2Crypto import X509, m2, RSA, EVP
from config import *

class Keypair(object):
    def __init__(self):
        self.config = Config()
        self.keypair = EVP.PKey()

    def create_keypair(self):
        # generate an RSA key pair
        # OpenSSL book page 232
        # second argument should be a constant RSA_F4 or RSA_3
        rsa_key_pair =
RSA.gen_key(int(self.config.get_attribute('CA','key_size')), m2.RSA_F4)

        # check if RSA key pair is usable
        # OpenSSL book page 232
        if rsa_key_pair.check_key() != 1:
            print 'error while generating key!'
            sys.exit()

        # EVP object which can hold either a DSA or an RSA object
        # OpenSSL book page 236
        evp_key_container = EVP.PKey()
        evp_key_container.assign_rsa(rsa_key_pair)

        self.keypair = evp_key_container

    def save_keypair(self, filename):
        self.keypair.save_key(filename, None)

    def load_keypair(self, filename):
        self.keypair = EVP.load_key(filename)

    def get_keypair(self):
        return self.keypair

    def get_public_key(self):
        return self.keypair.pkey

    def print_keypair(self):
        print self.keypair.as_pem(None)

if __name__ == "__main__":
    key = Keypair()
    key.create_keypair()
    key.save_keypair("test.key")

    print key.get_keypair()
    print key.get_public_key()



From enleverLesX_XXmcX at XmclavXeauX.com  Sat Aug  1 13:20:35 2009
From: enleverLesX_XXmcX at XmclavXeauX.com (Michel Claveau - MVP)
Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 19:20:35 +0200
Subject: os.path.exists() and Samba shares
References: 
Message-ID: <4a747965$0$23487$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr>

Hi!

> SAMBA is a Linux implementation of the SMB protocol, natively supported on Windows.

Right.
But, with Vista or Seven, only recents releases of Samba are supported.
And, Samba know only NTLM release 2
(in register: 
  HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Lsa
  value  LMCompatibilityLevel ; set 1 or 0.
)

@-salutations
-- 
Michel Claveau 



From justindecell at gmail.com  Sat Aug  1 14:07:15 2009
From: justindecell at gmail.com (Justin DeCell)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 11:07:15 -0700
Subject: Queryable Daemon
Message-ID: <81F5E933-9140-4269-AA13-FDB34CB9E895@gmail.com>

Hi All,

I was hoping for a little help with a project I'm working on. I'm  
writing a daemon in python that I want to be queryable  (i.e. I should  
be able to run foo -s and it will report some internal information  
about the foo daemon if it's running) but I can't figure out a way get  
information from that process from an external process. I was thinking  
that there should be a way to open a file descriptor, have the daemon  
write to that every so often and then have the query process just read  
from that fd but it looks like on the process reading from an fd has  
to be a child of the daemon for this to work. The only other way I  
thought of would be to write to a file on disk every so often from the  
daemon and just read the from the query process but it seems like  
there should be a more elegant way to do this...

By the way I'm writing this for unix only so there's no need to worry  
about compatibility with other os'.

Thanks,

         -Justin

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From luke.leighton at googlemail.com  Sat Aug  1 14:07:51 2009
From: luke.leighton at googlemail.com (lkcl)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 11:07:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: JavaScript toolkits (was Re: ANN: Porcupine Web Application 
	Server 0.6 is released!)
References:  
	
Message-ID: <01133210-f03b-4a71-aa9e-d69fe44ac9a5@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Jul 20, 4:00 pm, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
> Out of curiosity, are there anyJavaScripttoolkits

 or python-to-javascript compilers

>  that generate code
> that degrades gracefully whenJavaScriptis disabled?

 http://advogato.org/article/981.html

 you'll need to do a little bit of work - use a state-machine-based
framework (such as twisted, from what i can gather), or use fastcgi,
or solve the problem of storing the state of the pyjamas application
"in between" web requests - but yes, pyjamas-web is a port of pyjamas
to the web server.

 so, by writing an app that conforms to the pyjamas API, you get to
compile it to native javascript, to run in the web browser; you get to
run it as pure python using pyjamas-desktop (python-hulahop underneath
or pywebkitgtk) and then, if you want to finish off the experiment
that i started, you get to run the _same_ python app server-side on
behalf of the users.

 all quite quite mad, to be honest :)

 l.


From luke.leighton at googlemail.com  Sat Aug  1 14:11:02 2009
From: luke.leighton at googlemail.com (lkcl)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 11:11:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: JavaScript toolkits (was Re: ANN: Porcupine Web Application 
	Server 0.6 is released!)
References:  
	
	<1c994086-8c58-488f-b3b3-6161c4b2ba05@k30g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2a2f05af-a87e-44bf-8d36-774697dbd794@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Jul 21, 12:55 pm, Paul Boddie  wrote:
> On 20 Jul, 18:00, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
>
>
>
> > Out of curiosity, are there anyJavaScripttoolkits that generate code
> > that degrades gracefully whenJavaScriptis disabled?
>
> You mean "Web toolkits which useJavaScript", I presume. I have
> written (and use myself) a toolkit/framework called XSLForms (part of
> the XSLTools distribution) which supports in-page updates (AJAX,
> effectively) that degrade to vanilla whole-page requests ifJavaScript
> is switched off:

 yeahhh.... i remember doing something like that.  each portion of the
page i did as a separate AJAX load, and then there was some loader-
infrastructure where you could, if javascript was switched off, do a
tree-walk-reconstruction of the page.

 if anyone's interested i can provide source code.

l.


From hjtoi-better-remove-before-reply at comcast.net  Sat Aug  1 14:19:13 2009
From: hjtoi-better-remove-before-reply at comcast.net (Heikki Toivonen)
Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 11:19:13 -0700
Subject: M2Crypto: AttributeError: 'CSR' object has no attribute 'pkey'
References: 
Message-ID: 

Matthias G?ntert wrote:
> class CSR(object):
>     def __init__(self):
>         pass
> 
>     def create_cert_signing_request(keypair, cert_name,
> cert_extension_stack=None):

You missed self. Although this method does not seem to be using any
instance data so there isn't actually much reason to have a CSR object
unless you intend to expand it in ways that require it.

>         if cert_extension_stack != None:

A word of advice: always check equality/inequality to None with 'is',
because that way it is a straight pointer conversion which is faster and
won't cause any surprises. In other words, write the above as:

         if cert_extension_stack is not None:

-- 
  Heikki Toivonen - http://heikkitoivonen.net


From jkn_gg at nicorp.f9.co.uk  Sat Aug  1 15:01:32 2009
From: jkn_gg at nicorp.f9.co.uk (jkn)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 12:01:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing
References: 
	 
	<4A73AAE3.1050209@tim.thechases.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 1, 4:18?am, Terry Reedy  wrote:

> This is one area where Windows users seems to have an advantage. The
> standard installer includes the doc set as a Windows help file. I often
> keep that open in one window while programming in others. I only later
> discovered that this was a copy of the online docs ;-), which I only use
> to check the in-development version before submitting a doc bug.

The ActiveState distribution also includes the doc set as a CHM file
(the canonical version didn't used to; one reason why I've used
ActiveState in the past).

I run a dual-boot system and have used a CHM (Windows Compiled help
file format) viewer under Linux to read the Windows help file. This
has been pretty handy in the past.

Unfortunately, the combination of the python 2.6 CHM helpfile style,
and the KChmViewer application gives me body text which is almost
unreadable (black text on dark blue background). I'm not sure if this
a bug in KChmViewer but it's pretty annoying. Anyone else see this?

    J^n



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Aug  1 15:32:21 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 20:32:21 +0100
Subject: Queryable Daemon
In-Reply-To: <81F5E933-9140-4269-AA13-FDB34CB9E895@gmail.com>
References: <81F5E933-9140-4269-AA13-FDB34CB9E895@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A749845.4020208@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Justin DeCell wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> I was hoping for a little help with a project I'm working on. I'm 
> writing a daemon in python that I want to be queryable  (i.e. I should 
> be able to run foo -s and it will report some internal information about 
> the foo daemon if it's running) but I can't figure out a way get 
> information from that process from an external process. I was thinking 
> that there should be a way to open a file descriptor, have the daemon 
> write to that every so often and then have the query process just read 
> from that fd but it looks like on the process reading from an fd has to 
> be a child of the daemon for this to work. The only other way I thought 
> of would be to write to a file on disk every so often from the daemon 
> and just read the from the query process but it seems like there should 
> be a more elegant way to do this...
> 
> By the way I'm writing this for unix only so there's no need to worry 
> about compatibility with other os'.
> 
Instead of a file descriptor, how about a socket? A certain port at
"127.0.0.1"?


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Sat Aug  1 15:32:31 2009
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 20:32:31 +0100
Subject: Python docs disappointing
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	
	<4A73AAE3.1050209@tim.thechases.com>	
	
Message-ID: <4A74984F.9010805@timgolden.me.uk>

jkn wrote:

> The ActiveState distribution also includes the doc set as a CHM file
> (the canonical version didn't used to; one reason why I've used
> ActiveState in the past).

It has done for quite some while now: Python 2.3 was the first
and that was released, what, six years ago. Still, you're right;
it used to use plain HTML.

> Unfortunately, the combination of the python 2.6 CHM helpfile style,
> and the KChmViewer application gives me body text which is almost
> unreadable (black text on dark blue background). I'm not sure if this
> a bug in KChmViewer but it's pretty annoying. Anyone else see this?

This was noised about when the new-style docs were first released.
Somehow (I don't run Linux usually) I had the impression it had
been fixed; presumably not. However, rebuilding the docs is not
at all hard: you just need a Python installation and the
HTMLHelp Workshop. Then you can fiddle about with the CSS to
your heart's content.

TJG


From geomajor56 at gmail.com  Sat Aug  1 15:39:12 2009
From: geomajor56 at gmail.com (Michael Savarese)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 15:39:12 -0400
Subject: iterate lines with regex
Message-ID: <75c8645a0908011239q54292379tb02ff4de364839af@mail.gmail.com>

I'm a python newbie and I'm trying to test several regular expressions on
the same line before moving on to next line.
it seems to move on to next line before trying all regular expressions which
is my goal.
it only returns true for first regular expression
does the curser have to be rest to beginning of line? If so, how would I do
that.
remember I'm new
thanks in advance to any advice
Mike S.

the following is part of my code,
readThis=open('c:/9320.txt','r')

for line in readThis:
    try:
        thisKey = key.search(line).group(1)
        thisMap = map.search(line).group(1)
        thisParcel = parcel.search(line).group(1)
    except:
        continue
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From jkn_gg at nicorp.f9.co.uk  Sat Aug  1 15:44:14 2009
From: jkn_gg at nicorp.f9.co.uk (jkn)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 12:44:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing
References: 
	 
	<4A73AAE3.1050209@tim.thechases.com>
	 
	 
	
Message-ID: 

Hi Tim

On Aug 1, 8:32?pm, Tim Golden  wrote:
>
> > Unfortunately, the combination of the python 2.6 CHM helpfile style,
> > and the KChmViewer application gives me body text which is almost
> > unreadable (black text on dark blue background). I'm not sure if this
> > a bug in KChmViewer but it's pretty annoying. Anyone else see this?
>
> This was noised about when the new-style docs were first released.
> Somehow (I don't run Linux usually) I had the impression it had
> been fixed; presumably not. However, rebuilding the docs is not
> at all hard: you just need a Python installation and the
> HTMLHelp Workshop. Then you can fiddle about with the CSS to
> your heart's content.
>

The HTML form of the documents (on python.org) seem fine (dark text on
a light background, with a 'light blue on dark blue' sidebar). I was
guessing that the .CHM was intended to have the same style, and
therefore there was a problem with either my viwer, or with the
conversion. Is this not the case then?

I've just checked using xchm, and this displays OK - but I don't think
it's taking any notice of any styles. FWIW I'm running 4.0-r1; there
is a later release but it's not yet available for my Gentoo
distribution.

Can you point me at any references to this bug in the Python release
world please?

    Thanks
    J^n




From jkn_gg at nicorp.f9.co.uk  Sat Aug  1 15:47:50 2009
From: jkn_gg at nicorp.f9.co.uk (jkn)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 12:47:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing
References: 
	 
	<4A73AAE3.1050209@tim.thechases.com>
	 
	 
	
	
Message-ID: <5cdcdc4a-5dd5-4c0a-a7cd-cdd078f8c262@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

update: if I set 'use KHTMLPart-based widget' instead of 'QTextBrowser-
based Widget' to display HTML content in the application settings of
KchmViewer, all is readable. Hurrah!

I wonder if it is picing up some QT stylesheet I have lying around in
an over-clever way...

    J^n



From ml at well-adjusted.de  Sat Aug  1 15:55:31 2009
From: ml at well-adjusted.de (Jochen Schulz)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 21:55:31 +0200
Subject: iterate lines with regex
In-Reply-To: <75c8645a0908011239q54292379tb02ff4de364839af@mail.gmail.com>
References: <75c8645a0908011239q54292379tb02ff4de364839af@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090801195531.GH15902@wasteland.homelinux.net>

Michael Savarese:
> 
> for line in readThis:
>     try:
>         thisKey = key.search(line).group(1)
>         thisMap = map.search(line).group(1)
>         thisParcel = parcel.search(line).group(1)
>     except:
>         continue

Why do you catch all exceptions in that loop? Remove the try-except
clause including the 'continue' and a stacktrace will probybably tell
you why your loop appears to do nothing.

J.
-- 
A passionate argument means more to me than a blockbuster movie.
[Agree]   [Disagree]
                 
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From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Aug  1 16:08:14 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 21:08:14 +0100
Subject: iterate lines with regex
In-Reply-To: <75c8645a0908011239q54292379tb02ff4de364839af@mail.gmail.com>
References: <75c8645a0908011239q54292379tb02ff4de364839af@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

Michael Savarese wrote:
> I'm a python newbie and I'm trying to test several regular expressions on
> the same line before moving on to next line.
> it seems to move on to next line before trying all regular expressions which
> is my goal.
> it only returns true for first regular expression
> does the curser have to be rest to beginning of line? If so, how would I do
> that.
> remember I'm new
> thanks in advance to any advice
> Mike S.
> 
> the following is part of my code,
> readThis=open('c:/9320.txt','r')
> 
> for line in readThis:
>     try:
>         thisKey = key.search(line).group(1)
>         thisMap = map.search(line).group(1)
>         thisParcel = parcel.search(line).group(1)
>     except:
>         continue
> 
> 
The bare except will hide any errors in the lines above it. Either catch 
errors that you expect or take the try-except out.

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From workitharder at gmail.com  Sat Aug  1 16:42:16 2009
From: workitharder at gmail.com (Buck)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 13:42:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Module updating plans for Python 3.1: feedparser, MySQLdb
References: <4a739a96$0$1615$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: 

I use MySQLdb quite a bit in my work. I could volunteer to help update
it. Are there any particular bugs we're talking about or just a
straight port to 3.0?

--Buck

On Jul 31, 6:32?pm, John Nagle  wrote:
> ? ? Any progress on updating feedparser and MySQLdb for Python 3.x in the
> foreseeable future?
>
> ? ? Feedparser shouldn't be that hard; it's just that nobody is working on it.
> MySQLdb is known to be hard, and that may be a while.
>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? John Nagle



From garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk  Sat Aug  1 17:14:59 2009
From: garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk (garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 21:14:59 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Queryable Daemon
References: <81F5E933-9140-4269-AA13-FDB34CB9E895@gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: 

MRAB  wrote:
> Justin DeCell wrote:
>> Hi All,
>> 

...

>> The only other way I thought 
>> of would be to write to a file on disk every so often from the daemon 
>> and just read the from the query process but it seems like there should 
>> be a more elegant way to do this...
>> 
>> By the way I'm writing this for unix only so there's no need to worry 
>> about compatibility with other os'.
>> 
> Instead of a file descriptor, how about a socket? A certain port at
> "127.0.0.1"?

Or a Unix domain socket.

Or let the demon catch signal, say SIGUSR1 and dump its state to a file.
A bit easier programming that a socket, a bit less elegant.

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------
| Radovan Garab?k http://kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk/~garabik/ |
| __..--^^^--..__    garabik @ kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk     |
 -----------------------------------------------------------
Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus.
Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!


From saimapk81 at gmail.com  Sat Aug  1 17:29:25 2009
From: saimapk81 at gmail.com (saima81)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 14:29:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: "PAK WEB PAGES" "PAK WEB SITES" "PAK WEB PAGES" "PAK WEB SITES" "PAK 
	WEB PAGES" "PAK WEB SITES" ON www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com
Message-ID: 

"PAK WEB PAGES"

www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com


"PAK WEB SITES"


www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com


"PAK WEB PAGES"


www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com


"PAK WEB SITES"


www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com


 "PAK WEB PAGES"


www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com

 "PAK WEB SITES"


www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com


 ON


www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com



 www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com


From michael at altra-optics.co.uk  Sat Aug  1 17:58:53 2009
From: michael at altra-optics.co.uk (Michael M Mason)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 22:58:53 +0100
Subject: Newbie thwarted by sys.path on Vista
Message-ID: <7djs50F2bsubuU1@mid.individual.net>

I'm running Python 3.1 on Vista and I can't figure out how to add my own 
directory to  sys.path.

The docs suggest that I can either add it to the PYTHONPATH environment 
variable or to the PythonPath key in the registry.  However, PYTHONPATH 
doesn't exist, and updating the registry key has no effect (and in any case 
the contents aren't the same as sys.path).

So where does sys.path get its value from, and how do I change it?

-- 
Michael 



From nytrokiss at gmail.com  Sat Aug  1 19:01:45 2009
From: nytrokiss at gmail.com (James Matthews)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 02:01:45 +0300
Subject: How to read webpage
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	<7690d42e-ea99-4aec-9029-5cfae119ffcf@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <8a6b8e350908011601v4d2ab86bp5618c6171cfb9a98@mail.gmail.com>

Check your connection to the internet.

On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 6:43 PM, Marcus Wanner  wrote:

> On 8/1/2009 11:31 AM, Jon Clements wrote:
>
>> On 1 Aug, 14:52, MRAB  wrote:
>>
>>> tarun wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear All,
>>>> I want to read a webpage and copy the contents of it in word file. I
>>>> tried to write following code:
>>>> import urllib2
>>>> urllib2.urlopen("http://www.rediff.com/")
>>>> *Error:-*
>>>>    urllib2.urlopen("http://www.icicibank.com/")
>>>>  File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 121, in urlopen
>>>>    return _opener.open(url, data)
>>>>  File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 374, in open
>>>>    response = self._open(req, data)
>>>>  File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 392, in _open
>>>>    '_open', req)
>>>>  File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 353, in _call_chain
>>>>    result = func(*args)
>>>>  File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 1100, in http_open
>>>>    return self.do_open(httplib.HTTPConnection, req)
>>>>  File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 1075, in do_open
>>>>    raise URLError(err)
>>>> urllib2.URLError: 
>>>>
>>> I've just tried it. I didn't get an exception, so your problem must be
>>> elsewhere.
>>>
>>
>> I'm hoping this adds to MRAB's reply; it is intended however for the
>> OP.
>>
>> Jeeze -- been a while since I've had to deal with Sockets (directly
>> anyway).
>> If memory serves correctly, it's where the system can't name resolve
>> the required address.
>> So best guess is it's either a temporary glitch, or an issue with your
>> routing.
>>
>> Jon.
>> Jon.
>>
>
> 'getaddrinfo failed' means that the nameserver can't be found, or that it
> has no records of that address (I'm 90% sure of that).
>
> Marcus
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
http://www.goldwatches.com
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From luke.leighton at googlemail.com  Sat Aug  1 19:19:55 2009
From: luke.leighton at googlemail.com (lkcl)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 16:19:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Calling functions: Why this complicated ?
References: <89dd3da60907141340i46a6d913mb333788e85507128@mail.gmail.com> 
	
Message-ID: <5e089462-dbc1-4764-a57c-86c94cb0ae14@u16g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

On Jul 14, 11:31 pm, Chris Rebert  wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 1:40 PM, Mohan Parthasarathy wrote:
> > Hi,
> > I am a newbie. I am reading
> >http://www.network-theory.co.uk/docs/pytut/KeywordArguments.html
> > Defining a function with "N" arguments and calling them in "M" different
> > ways. Why does it have to be this complicated ? I like the idea of calling
> > the function by explicitly naming the arguments, but there are so many other
> > ways here that is very confusing. Do people really use all these features ?
> > Perhaps, there is a equivalent book to "Javascript: Good Parts" for Python ?
>
> Oh $DEITY, don't even compare Python toJavaScript. At least in
> Python, when you try to access a non-existent attribute, a proper
> NameError exception is thrown rather than silently getting back
> "undefined"... (*has traumatic horror story flashback*)

 yehh, that's what i thought, originally, but after talking it over
with the people doing the EMCAScript Harmony spec, they explained that
nooo, there _are_ exceptions thrown (two if the browser implements it
properly, which IE of course doesn't).  you can try it by installing
the spidermonkey js compiler, which is the exact same js engine that's
in firefox.

 in the python-to-javascript compiler, http://pyjs.org, however, we've
taken to adding a double-check (the equivalent of getattr) when you
specify the --strict option, juuust to make sure.

 and yes, there was a talk at europython 2009, pretty much called
"javascript, the good parts, for python programmers", you can look it
up, the talk audio is online by now.  http://europython.eu

 l.


From joncle at googlemail.com  Sat Aug  1 19:32:21 2009
From: joncle at googlemail.com (Jon Clements)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 16:32:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Newbie thwarted by sys.path on Vista
References: <7djs50F2bsubuU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <105eaa91-e751-4b25-a2c9-94cd075b60c7@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>

On 1 Aug, 22:58, "Michael M Mason"  wrote:
> I'm running Python 3.1 on Vista and I can't figure out how to add my own
> directory to ?sys.path.
>
> The docs suggest that I can either add it to the PYTHONPATH environment
> variable or to the PythonPath key in the registry. ?However, PYTHONPATH
> doesn't exist, and updating the registry key has no effect (and in any case
> the contents aren't the same as sys.path).
>
> So where does sys.path get its value from, and how do I change it?
>
> --
> Michael

sys.path is just a list. So in your 'main' module where you do most of
your imports, just append or prepend the path you desire (the search
order is left to right). Although, I believe under Windows creating a
system level or user level PYTHONPATH environment variable will enable
Windows to pick it up. Not 100% sure as I don't have a Windows machine
handy.


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Sat Aug  1 19:36:18 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 01:36:18 +0200
Subject: Newbie thwarted by sys.path on Vista
References: <7djs50F2bsubuU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: 

>>>>> "Michael M Mason"  (MMM) wrote:

>MMM> I'm running Python 3.1 on Vista and I can't figure out how to add my own
>MMM> directory to  sys.path.

>MMM> The docs suggest that I can either add it to the PYTHONPATH environment
>MMM> variable or to the PythonPath key in the registry.  However, PYTHONPATH
>MMM> doesn't exist, 

Then create it.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Aug  1 19:36:58 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 1 Aug 2009 16:36:58 -0700
Subject: string.Template issue
References: 
Message-ID: 

In article ,
Javier Collado   wrote:
>
>In the string.Template documentation
>(http://docs.python.org/library/string.html) it's explained that if a
>custom regular expression for pattern substitution is needed, it's
>possible to override idpattern class attribute (whose default value is
>[_a-z][_a-z0-9]*).
>
>However, if the custom pattern that is needed is just uppercase
>letters something like [A-Z]+ won't work because of the following line
>in the _TemplateMetaclass class __init__ method:
>cls.pattern = _re.compile(pattern, _re.IGNORECASE | _re.VERBOSE)
>
>I would say that this is an error (IGNORECASE just shouldn't be there)

Good point!  I don't have an answer for you, but please file a report at
bugs.python.org to make sure it doesn't get lost.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From david.lyon at preisshare.net  Sat Aug  1 20:26:19 2009
From: david.lyon at preisshare.net (David Lyon)
Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 20:26:19 -0400
Subject: Newbie thwarted by sys.path on Vista
In-Reply-To: <7djs50F2bsubuU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <7djs50F2bsubuU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <73ddb9b5d0110a42e2831eb6c150d2a8@preisshare.net>

On Sat, 1 Aug 2009 22:58:53 +0100, "Michael M Mason"
 wrote:
> I'm running Python 3.1 on Vista and I can't figure out how to add my own 
> directory to  sys.path.
> 
> The docs suggest that I can either add it to the PYTHONPATH environment 
> variable or to the PythonPath key in the registry.  However, PYTHONPATH 
> doesn't exist, and updating the registry key has no effect
>
> So where does sys.path get its value from, and how do I change it?

The simplest hack (worst - but most direct) is that sys.path is a list
and you can use it like any other list. (add, delete, change items in it)

It gets loaded from site.py (in the standardard library) at startup.

Anything else you'll have to ask somebody else.

David


From davea at ieee.org  Sat Aug  1 20:29:12 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 20:29:12 -0400
Subject: Newbie thwarted by sys.path on Vista
In-Reply-To: <7djs50F2bsubuU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <7djs50F2bsubuU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <4A74DDD8.7020304@ieee.org>

Michael M Mason wrote:
> 
I'm 
> running Python 3.1 on Vista and I can't figure out how to add my own 
> directory to  sys.path.
>
> The docs suggest that I can either add it to the PYTHONPATH 
> environment variable or to the PythonPath key in the registry.  
> However, PYTHONPATH doesn't exist, and updating the registry key has 
> no effect (and in any case the contents aren't the same as sys.path).
>
> So where does sys.path get its value from, and how do I change it?
>
sys.path gets its values from several places.  The ones I think I know 
of are:

     current directory (which uses ""  rather than the expected ".")
     directories listed in PythonPath environment variable
     Windows-system directory
     relative to the executable (python.exe or pythonw.exe) that's 
actually running
     relative to the user directory  (docs&settings/username/Application 
Data ....

If there's no PythonPath variable, it just uses those other items.   I 
have no idea what it gets from the registry entries.

Anyway, I'd suggest adding it to PythonPath, and if it's empty, just 
create it with the directory you need.

I'm hoping you know you can also add to sys.path directly during script 
initialization.  It's just a list, and is writeable.



From joongkoo.cho at gmail.com  Sat Aug  1 20:43:57 2009
From: joongkoo.cho at gmail.com (Joongkoo Cho)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 17:43:57 -0700
Subject: Shortest path code on real map
Message-ID: 

Dear All,

I'm trying to calculate shortest paths on US highway map. I understand how
shortest path algorithms work in Python but I need helps to do it on real
maps. How can I make link-node information?

Best,
John
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From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Aug  1 21:06:47 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 02 Aug 2009 01:06:47 GMT
Subject: Custom namespaces
Message-ID: <0284d760$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

I was playing around with a custom mapping type, and I wanted to use it 
as a namespace, so I tried to use it as my module __dict__:

>>> import __main__
>>> __main__.__dict__ = MyNamespace()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
TypeError: readonly attribute

Why is __dict__ made read-only?

I next thought I could change the type of the namespace to my class:

>>> __main__.__dict__.__class__ = MyNamespace
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
TypeError: __class__ assignment: only for heap types

Drat, foiled again!!!

Okay, if I can't do this at the module level, can I at least install a 
custom namespace at the class level?

>>> class MyNamespace(dict):
...     def __getitem__(self, key):
...             print "Looking up key '%s'" % key
...             return super(MyNamespace, self).__getitem__(key)
...
>>> namespace = MyNamespace(x=1, y=2, z=3)
>>> namespace['x']
Looking up key 'x'
1
>>> C = new.classobj("C", (object,), namespace)
>>> C.x
1

Apparently not. It looks like the namespace provided to the class 
constructor gets copied when the class is made.

Interestingly enough, the namespace argument gets modified *before* it 
gets copied, which has an unwanted side-effect:

>>> namespace
{'y': 2, 'x': 1, '__module__': '__main__', 'z': 3, '__doc__': None}


Is there any way to install a custom type as a namespace?



-- 
Steven


From redforks at gmail.com  Sat Aug  1 21:11:45 2009
From: redforks at gmail.com (Red Forks)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 09:11:45 +0800
Subject: string.Template issue
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <3f18b3f10908011811t6947fbf2t335370c676889062@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 4:17 PM, Javier Collado wrote:

> Hello,
>
> In the string.Template documentation
> (http://docs.python.org/library/string.html) it's explained that if a
> custom regular expression for pattern substitution is needed, it's
> possible to override idpattern class attribute (whose default value is
> [_a-z][_a-z0-9]*).
>
> However, if the custom pattern that is needed is just uppercase
> letters something like [A-Z]+ won't work because of the following line
> in the _TemplateMetaclass class __init__ method:
> cls.pattern = _re.compile(pattern, _re.IGNORECASE | _re.VERBOSE)

derive a new class, and replace __init__ method, or
replace _TemplateMetaclass.__init__() method.

>


>
> I would say that this is an error (IGNORECASE just shouldn't be there)
> and that the line above should be:
> cls.pattern = _re.compile(pattern, _re.VERBOSE)
> and the default value for idpattern:
> [_a-zA-Z][_a-zA-Z0-9]*
>
> Do you agree on this? Is there any reason for the IGNORECASE option to
> be passed to re.compile?
>
> Best regards,
>    Javier
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From redforks at gmail.com  Sat Aug  1 21:18:58 2009
From: redforks at gmail.com (Red Forks)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 09:18:58 +0800
Subject: Custom namespaces
In-Reply-To: <0284d760$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <0284d760$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <3f18b3f10908011818x711e49ccg575eb4eb7363f261@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Steven D'Aprano <
steve at remove-this-cybersource.com.au> wrote:

> I was playing around with a custom mapping type, and I wanted to use it
> as a namespace, so I tried to use it as my module __dict__:
>
> >>> import __main__
> >>> __main__.__dict__ = MyNamespace()
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "", line 1, in 
> TypeError: readonly attribute
>
> Why is __dict__ made read-only?

to protect module type? Use .update() method:
__main.__.__dict__.update(MyNamespace())
You can create your own Module instance:
from types import ModuleType
m = ModuleType('modulename')
and make a sub class of ModuleType is also OK

>
>
> I next thought I could change the type of the namespace to my class:
>
> >>> __main__.__dict__.__class__ = MyNamespace
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "", line 1, in 
> TypeError: __class__ assignment: only for heap types
>
> Drat, foiled again!!!
>
> Okay, if I can't do this at the module level, can I at least install a
> custom namespace at the class level?
>
> >>> class MyNamespace(dict):
> ...     def __getitem__(self, key):
> ...             print "Looking up key '%s'" % key
> ...             return super(MyNamespace, self).__getitem__(key)
> ...
> >>> namespace = MyNamespace(x=1, y=2, z=3)
> >>> namespace['x']
> Looking up key 'x'
> 1
> >>> C = new.classobj("C", (object,), namespace)
> >>> C.x
> 1
>
> Apparently not. It looks like the namespace provided to the class
> constructor gets copied when the class is made.
>
> Interestingly enough, the namespace argument gets modified *before* it
> gets copied, which has an unwanted side-effect:
>
> >>> namespace
> {'y': 2, 'x': 1, '__module__': '__main__', 'z': 3, '__doc__': None}
>
>
> Is there any way to install a custom type as a namespace?
>
>
>
> --
> Steven
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From dciphercomputing at gmail.com  Sat Aug  1 21:25:10 2009
From: dciphercomputing at gmail.com (Simon)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 18:25:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Newbie Question regarding __init__()
References: 
	
	
	 
	
Message-ID: <6ccf5dbe-4b71-4159-88bb-c6a14aa785a9@k26g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>

Okay I will fix my code and include "self" and see what happens.  I
know I tried that before and got another error which I suspect was
another newbie error.

The idea behind the init_Pre is that I can put custom code here to
customize the __init__ instead of creating a new subclass.  This kind
of hook pattern allows you to flatten your inheritance hierarchy.  I
can choose in the init_Pre method to execute code before the init_exec
(which contains the default __init__ code) and still execute the
init_Exec method or I can completely customize the entire __init__ by
returning False from init_Pre and prevent the init_Exec from being
called.  I use this type of pattern with almost all my methods.  In
this way I can create a less complicated inheritance chain but still
have have custom code when needed without sub-classing.

I am use to Visual FoxPro which where you can do

=This.init_Pre().And.This.init_Exec() and the result is discarded so
that is why it looks the way it does.  In this form init_Exec has to
return a value.  However, If self.init_Pre(): self.init_Exec() would
work the same and then I could avoid returning a value.

Thanks,
Simon


On Aug 1, 5:52?am, Dave Angel  wrote:
> Nat Williams wrote:
> > As MRAB described, ALL instance methods need to accept 'self' as a first
> > parameter, as that will be passed to them implicitly when they are called.
> > This includes __init__. ?The name 'self' is just a commonly accepted
> > convention for the name of the instance object passed to methods. ?You don't
> > have to call it that, but you really should.
>
> > Take a look athttp://docs.python.org/tutorial/classes.html#class-objects
> > It might help shed some light on how methods and instances work.
>
> > One other thing. ?I'm a little confused by the first line of
> > dcObject.__init__:
>
> > self.init_Pre() and self.init_Exec()
>
> > I suspect this does not do what you think it does. ?init_Pre and init_Exec
> > will both be called by this expression (unless init_Pre throws an exception,
> > of course). ?You're not getting anything here that you wouldn't by just
> > calling each method on a separate line, except just making it harder to
> > read.
>
> Read the doc-string for init_Pre() and for init_Exec(). ?The final
> version of init_Pre() will return False in some circumstances, and in
> those circumstances Simon doesn't want init_Exec() to be called. ?He's
> deliberately using the short-circuit evaluation of ?'and' ?to accomplish
> that.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 8:53 PM, Simon  wrote:
>
> >> Hi
>
> >> So should the dcObject class include the "self" as well since I have
> >> not defined an __init__ method in dcCursor?
>
> >> Simon
>
> >> --
> >>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
> Every one of those methods in both of those classes need a "self" first
> argument. ?As others have said, all instance methods need a 'self.'



From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Sat Aug  1 21:31:15 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 18:31:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Help understanding the decisions *behind* python?
References: 
Message-ID: <988a5f49-7907-4351-bfd0-7bb05e821795@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On 20 Jul, 18:27, Phillip B Oldham  wrote:

> We're not looking to start any arguments or religious wars and we're
> not asking that python be changed into something its not. We'd simply
> like to understand the decision behind the lists and tuple structures.
> We feel that in not "getting" the difference between the two types we
> may be missing out on using these data structures to their full
> potential.

A crude simplification would be:

- A Python programmer will use a tuple where a C programmer will use a
struct.

- Python and C programmers use lists and arrays similarly.

Tuples are used for passing arguments to and from a function. Common
use of tuples include multiple return values and optional arguments
(*args).

It has already been mentioned that tuples are immutable and can be
used as dictionary keys.








From skip at pobox.com  Sat Aug  1 21:38:46 2009
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 01:38:46 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Wrapping prstat on Solaris
References: 
	<1bce2ffd-85cb-4860-8b3e-92d8e1619a46@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 


> You haven't told us how you are actually reading from prstat's output
> pipe, which may be the cause. For instance, if you are doing
> 
> for line in pipe:
>   print line
>   ...
> 
> then this could cause your buffering issue.
> 
> Instead try using readline():
> 
> while True:
>   line = pipe.readline()
>   ...

Yes, I've been using for line in pipe.  Switching to your construct
seems to work like a charm.

Thanks,

Skip





From fatkinson at mishmash.com  Sat Aug  1 21:50:48 2009
From: fatkinson at mishmash.com (Fred Atkinson)
Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 18:50:48 -0700
Subject: Get Cliet IP Address
Message-ID: 

	What is the function to obtain the client browser's IP
address?   




					Fred 


From fatkinson at mishmash.com  Sat Aug  1 21:56:33 2009
From: fatkinson at mishmash.com (Fred Atkinson)
Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 18:56:33 -0700
Subject: Predefined Variables
References: 
	<7cr6siF28oinaU2@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <4gs9755f299j7ueitf422hh2vna32f358o@4ax.com>

On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 15:28:50 +0200, "Diez B. Roggisch"
 wrote:

>Fred Atkinson wrote:
>
>> Is there a pre-defined variable that returns the GET line
>> (http://www.php.net/index.php?everythingafterthequestionmark) as a
>> single variable (rather than individual variables)?
>
>Variables don't return things. Functions do. And additionally the answer
>depends on what and with what you actually do.
>
>Diez

	I want to display the client browser's IP address on the Web
page.  

	I'd like to create a variable like this: ip = somefunction(). 
	Then I can print the IP address on the Web page and/or log it
in an error file.  



					Fred 


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Sat Aug  1 22:19:43 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 19:19:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Help understanding the decisions *behind* python?
References:  
	<86b332b3-2da0-44e0-b29f-d930136635df@u16g2000pru.googlegroups.com> 
	
	<4677d753-364f-4d29-9091-e55008daec83@12g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <78d2801f-790c-475b-8953-23094482637f@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On 31 Jul, 23:43, Raymond Hettinger  wrote:

>?More than one person here has
> observed that the time to learn to program Pythonically is inversely
> proportional to their experience in Java.

I believe it is opposite. The longer the Java experience, the longer
it takes to program pythonically. The correlation is not inverse. In
particular, programmers accustomed to Java or C++ seem to use for-
loops awfully lot. And when they do, they always loop over a sequence
of integers, and use these as array indices. They consequently use a
class where a tuple would be more appropriate, never return multiple
values from functions, etc. Due to their coding style, they produce
programs that are notoriously inefficient, and blame this on 'Python
being slow'. Unlearning the idioms from Java takes a while. Python is
not Java and should not be programmed as such.

On the other hand, I found that my experience with MATLAB helped me a
lot on picking up a pythonical style quickly.





From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Sat Aug  1 22:19:45 2009
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (greg)
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 14:19:45 +1200
Subject: Python processors? : WAS Re: Does python have the capability
	for    driver development ?
In-Reply-To: <2d8298b9-b857-4b3d-ae63-2056d80cdf7f@d4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<4a7151b2$0$17782$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr>
	
	
	<2d8298b9-b857-4b3d-ae63-2056d80cdf7f@d4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7dkbcqF2c6aqgU1@mid.individual.net>

Francesco Bochicchio wrote:

> I wonder: has anybody thought of making a python-machine, or at least
> a processor able to directly execute high-level bytecode (LLVM-like?).

In some of my idle moments I've speculated on what such
a machine might be like. One of my ideas for potential
future projects is to flesh out the design and maybe even
build an FPGA prototype.

It would purely be for fun, though. It's unlikely that
such a processor would be able to compete speed-wise
with a general-purpose CPU running a Python interpreter
with critical libraries written in C.

That's what killed things like the Lisp machine. Their
developers couldn't keep up with the huge resources that
people like Intel and Motorola had to throw at CPU
development, so eventually a general-purpose CPU could
run Lisp faster than a Lisp machine.

-- 
Greg


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Sat Aug  1 22:44:17 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 19:44:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: fast video encoding
References: <570097d0-2b2a-4705-892f-0d0154d69d63@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0c8cfac7-0a70-4e1f-90ec-19e9c45cae89@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On 29 Jul, 10:14, gregorth  wrote:

> for a scientific application I need to save a video stream to disc for
> further post processing.

I have worked a bit on this as well. There are two things that make
scientific applications different form common video encoding:

First, a scientific video stream is often very different from a
'movie': There are usually very little 'movement'. For example, when I
have filmed a mouse swimming in a water maze (a pool of milky white
water), the only thing that moves is the rat. So I could achieve
excellent compression just by saving the pixels that changed.

Second, scientific data should be stored with lossless compression if
possible.

Common video codecs are aimed at films and home video, not scientific
video streams.

I don't know how your data are, but I would be very picky about the
codec. And chances are you will be better off home-brewing your own
domain specific compression.

If you need to store large amounts of scientific data, consider using
something like a HDF5 database for storage. There are two Python
wrappers for HDF5 that I know of (h5py and PyTables).







From nobody at nowhere.com  Sat Aug  1 22:47:59 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 03:47:59 +0100
Subject: Help understanding the decisions *behind* python?
References: 
	<86b332b3-2da0-44e0-b29f-d930136635df@u16g2000pru.googlegroups.com>
	
	<4677d753-364f-4d29-9091-e55008daec83@12g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<78d2801f-790c-475b-8953-23094482637f@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sat, 01 Aug 2009 19:19:43 -0700, sturlamolden wrote:

>>?More than one person here has
>> observed that the time to learn to program Pythonically is inversely
>> proportional to their experience in Java.
> 
> I believe it is opposite. The longer the Java experience, the longer
> it takes to program pythonically. The correlation is not inverse. In
> particular, programmers accustomed to Java or C++ seem to use for-
> loops awfully lot. And when they do, they always loop over a sequence
> of integers, and use these as array indices.

It would be more accurate to say that of programmers who are *only*
accustomed to Java or C++. I've been using C for 80-90% of my code for 25
years, and I wouldn't normally loop over the indices. But then the other
10-20% is Lisp, Tcl, Haskell, PostScript and, more recently, Python.

OTOH, using a "for" loop when you could use a generator means less work
when you need to make a minor change and a generator is no longer
sufficient.



From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Sat Aug  1 23:00:32 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 20:00:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Does python have the capability for driver development ?
References: 
	
	<87skgf83ua.fsf@rsw.digi.com.br> 
	
	<94abbddc-dac7-4215-84d1-d4eb3f82724d@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On 30 Jul, 02:19, MalC0de  wrote:

> actually I mean driver programming under Windows operating system, if
> you know, there's A kit name DDK available at microsoft's website for
> developing device drivers under C / C++ environment,

Actually, Microsoft has replaced DDK with a new kit called WDK for
Vista. The funny thing about WDK is that there are a lot of illegal C
and C++ in the headers, which even Microsoft's own compiler refuse to
accept. So good luck on getting anything to compile.












From darkneter at gmail.com  Sat Aug  1 23:04:05 2009
From: darkneter at gmail.com (NighterNet)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 20:04:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: socket policy flash help
References: <04e26f53-5f51-476d-823e-47bfeed9b2a8@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	
	<8bede581-f260-4c69-abf0-1e8071380b76@z4g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7e6cdc26-bcc0-4503-b7b4-9ad80b1041f6@v37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

Here the full code.

flashpolicy.xml
[[[


   

]]]

flashpolicytest_server3x.py
[[[

#!/usr/local/bin/python
'''
Still under testing...
python version 3.x.x
'''
import socket
import threading
import sys
import os

file_name = 'flashpolicy.xml'
fh = open(file_name, "r")
policy = fh.read(10001)

host = ''; #out side network
port = 5555;

print ("#  ------------- Init... -------------  #");
class ClientThread (threading.Thread):
	global policy;
	allClients = [];
	vlock = threading.Lock();
	id = 0 # next available thread number
	def __init__(self,clientSocket):
		threading.Thread.__init__(self)
		self.sockfd = clientSocket; #socket client
		self.name = '';
		ClientThread.id += 1
		self.id = ClientThread.id
		self.nickName = '';
		self.allClients.append(self.sockfd);
	def sendAll(self,buff):
		for index,clientSock in enumerate(self.allClients):
			try:
				clientSock.send(buff);
			except (socket.error):
				print ('error socket %s\n',index,"| clean");
				clientSock.close()
				del self.allClients[index]
	def run(self):
		while True:
			buff = self.sockfd.recv(1028);
			if not buff:
				print ("connect close...(client side)");
				self.sockfd.close();
				break #incase it loop infinite
			if str(buff) == str("b\'\\x00\'"):
				print ('policy FOUND >>> sending...')
				print(buff)
				b = b''
				print (b)
				self.sockfd.send(b);
				self.sockfd.sendall(b);
			print(buff);
			self.sendAll(buff)
		self.sockfd.close()
print ("#  ------------- Init... Listen Client -------------  #\n");
try:
	server = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET6, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
except AttributeError:
	# AttributeError catches Python built without IPv6
	server = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
except socket.error:
	# socket.error catches OS with IPv6 disabled
	server = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
server.setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET, socket.SO_REUSEADDR, 1)
server.bind((host,port))
server.listen(5)
print ("Server Up Listen!",host,":",port," Bind!");
while True:
	(clientSocket, address) = server.accept();
	print("client connect from :",address);
	ct = ClientThread(clientSocket);
	print(ct.id);
	ct.start();

]]]

Some odd reason I can't send flash policy from python to flash socket
to agrees with the connection.


From fatkinson at mishmash.com  Sat Aug  1 23:07:21 2009
From: fatkinson at mishmash.com (Fred Atkinson)
Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 20:07:21 -0700
Subject: Predefined Variables
References: 
	<7cr6siF28oinaU2@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<4gs9755f299j7ueitf422hh2vna32f358o@4ax.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sat, 01 Aug 2009 18:56:33 -0700, Fred Atkinson
 wrote:

>On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 15:28:50 +0200, "Diez B. Roggisch"
> wrote:
>
>>Fred Atkinson wrote:
>>
>>> Is there a pre-defined variable that returns the GET line
>>> (http://www.php.net/index.php?everythingafterthequestionmark) as a
>>> single variable (rather than individual variables)?
>>
>>Variables don't return things. Functions do. And additionally the answer
>>depends on what and with what you actually do.
>>
>>Diez
>
>	I want to display the client browser's IP address on the Web
>page.  
>
>	I'd like to create a variable like this: ip = somefunction(). 
>	Then I can print the IP address on the Web page and/or log it
>in an error file.  
>
>
>
>					Fred 

I replied to the wrong post.  

Sorry.  

     I want to do something like this: 

            string = os.environment('QUERY_STRING')

    If this is the string in the URL:
http://www.someurl.com/cgi-bin/somescript.cgi?anythingafterthequestionmark
   'string' should now contain the value
'everythingafterthequestionmark'

   When I use the os.environment('QUERY_STRING'), it doesn't work.  

   Is there something I should import to make this function work?  Or
what else is wrong?  



					Fred 


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Sat Aug  1 23:10:00 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 20:10:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Help understanding the decisions *behind* python?
References:  
	<86b332b3-2da0-44e0-b29f-d930136635df@u16g2000pru.googlegroups.com> 
	
	<4677d753-364f-4d29-9091-e55008daec83@12g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<78d2801f-790c-475b-8953-23094482637f@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: <8a15492e-c9ab-47be-afea-cde3065413b1@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On 2 Aug, 04:47, Nobody  wrote:

> OTOH, using a "for" loop when you could use a generator means less work
> when you need to make a minor change and a generator is no longer
> sufficient.

It's not just that. It is e.g. using a for loop and indexes instead of
a slice. E.g.

for i in range(10): # Java idiom
   a[i] = b[i+1]

instead of

a[:10] = b[1:11] # Pythonic







From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Sat Aug  1 23:24:11 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 20:24:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Help understanding the decisions *behind* python?
References:  
	<86b332b3-2da0-44e0-b29f-d930136635df@u16g2000pru.googlegroups.com> 
	<200907312048.03922.emmanuel.surleau@gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <2ff11bfc-9101-4b29-8b71-1627d85f799e@18g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On 31 Jul, 21:31, Masklinn  wrote:

> It's intuitive if you come to Python knowing other languages with ?
> tuples (which are mostly functional, and in which tuples are *never* ?
> sequences/iterables). At the end of the day, and if Guido's intention ?
> truly was what Raymond says, implementing tuples as immutable sequence ?
> was a mistake. And the documentation is to blame as well: in it, ?
> tuples are clearly described as a *sequence* type, not a *structure* ?
> type.

That depends on the readers' preconceptions: Only when the reader have
knowledge of C structs, Pascal records, or Java classes should this
matter. The na?ve reader will not have preconceptions about a
difference between "structure types" and "sequence types". A more
advanced C programmer will also know that a struct is a form of a
sequence in C: you can e.g. memcpy any struct to a char array.



From zooko at zooko.com  Sun Aug  2 00:14:49 2009
From: zooko at zooko.com (Zooko Wilcox-O'Hearn)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 22:14:49 -0600
Subject: ANNOUNCING Tahoe, the Lofty-Atmospheric Filesystem, v1.5 
Message-ID: <9CE7ACE7-219C-4097-8543-928E05651387@zooko.com>

Dear people of python-list:

Python is our preferred programming language for the Tahoe-LAFS  
project.  We use C/C++ extension modules for the CPU-intensive parts,  
and we interoperate with many languages through the RESTful web API,  
but the core code is 100% Python.

Regards,

Zooko
---
The Tahoe-LAFS team is pleased to announce the immediate availability of
version 1.5 of Tahoe, the Lofty Atmospheric File System.

Tahoe-LAFS is the first cloud storage technology which offers security
and privacy in the sense that the cloud storage service provider itself
can't read or alter your data. Here is the one-page explanation of
its unique security and fault-tolerance properties:

http://allmydata.org/source/tahoe/trunk/docs/about.html

This release is the successor to v1.4.1, which was released April 13,
2009 [1]. This is a major new release, improving the user interface and
performance and fixing a few bugs, and adding ports to OpenBSD, NetBSD,
ArchLinux, NixOS, and embedded systems built on ARM CPUs. See the NEWS
file [2] for more information.

In addition to the functionality of Tahoe-LAFS itself, a crop of related
projects have sprung up to extend it and to integrate it into operating
systems and applications.  These include frontends for Windows,
Macintosh, JavaScript, and iPhone, and plugins for duplicity, bzr,
Hadoop, and TiddlyWiki, and more. See the Related Projects page on the
wiki [3].


COMPATIBILITY

Version 1.5 is fully compatible with the version 1 series of
Tahoe-LAFS. Files written by v1.5 clients can be read by clients of all
versions back to v1.0. v1.5 clients can read files produced by clients
of all versions since v1.0.  v1.5 servers can serve clients of all
versions back to v1.0 and v1.5 clients can use servers of all versions
back to v1.0.

This is the sixth release in the version 1 series. The version 1 series
of Tahoe-LAFS will be actively supported and maintained for the
forseeable future, and future versions of Tahoe-LAFS will retain the
ability to read and write files compatible with Tahoe-LAFS v1.

The version 1 series of Tahoe-LAFS is the basis of the consumer backup
product from Allmydata, Inc. -- http://allmydata.com .


WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR?

With Tahoe-LAFS, you can distribute your filesystem across a set of
servers, such that if some of them fail or even turn out to be
malicious, the entire filesystem continues to be available. You can
share your files with other users, using a simple and flexible access
control scheme.

We believe that the combination of erasure coding, strong encryption,
Free/Open Source Software and careful engineering make Tahoe-LAFS safer
than RAID, removable drive, tape, on-line backup or other Cloud storage
systems.

This software comes with extensive tests, and there are no known
security flaws which would compromise confidentiality or data integrity
in typical use.  (For all currently known issues please see the
known_issues.txt file [4].)


LICENCE

You may use this package under the GNU General Public License, version 2
or, at your option, any later version.  See the file "COPYING.GPL" [5]
for the terms of the GNU General Public License, version 2.

You may use this package under the Transitive Grace Period Public
Licence, version 1 or, at your option, any later version.  (The
Transitive Grace Period Public Licence has requirements similar to the
GPL except that it allows you to wait for up to twelve months after you
redistribute a derived work before releasing the source code of your
derived work.) See the file "COPYING.TGPPL.html" [6] for the terms of
the Transitive Grace Period Public Licence, version 1.

(You may choose to use this package under the terms of either licence,
at your option.)


INSTALLATION

Tahoe-LAFS works on Linux, Mac OS X, Windows, Cygwin, Solaris, *BSD, and
probably most other systems.  Start with "docs/install.html" [7].


HACKING AND COMMUNITY

Please join us on the mailing list [8].  Patches are gratefully accepted
-- the RoadMap page [9] shows the next improvements that we plan to make
and CREDITS [10] lists the names of people who've contributed to the
project.  The Dev page [11] contains resources for hackers.


SPONSORSHIP

Tahoe-LAFS was originally developed thanks to the sponsorship of
Allmydata, Inc. [12], a provider of commercial backup services.
Allmydata, Inc. created the Tahoe-LAFS project and contributed hardware,
software, ideas, bug reports, suggestions, demands, and money (employing
several Tahoe-LAFS hackers and instructing them to spend part of their
work time on this Free Software project).  Also they awarded customized
t-shirts to hackers who found security flaws in Tahoe-LAFS (see
http://hacktahoe.org ). After discontinuing funding of Tahoe-LAFS R&D in
early 2009, Allmydata, Inc. has continued to provide servers, co-lo
space and bandwidth to the open source project. Thank you to Allmydata,
Inc. for their generous and public-spirited support.

This is the second release of Tahoe-LAFS which was created solely as a
labor of love by volunteers; developer time is no longer funded by
allmydata.com (see [13] for details).

Zooko Wilcox-O'Hearn
on behalf of the Tahoe-LAFS team

Special acknowledgment goes to Brian Warner, whose superb engineering
skills and dedication are primarily responsible for the Tahoe
implementation, and significantly responsible for the Tahoe design as
well, not to mention most of the docs and tests. Tahoe-LAFS wouldn't
exist without him.

August 1, 2009
Boulder, Colorado, USA

P.S.  Just kidding about that acronym.  "LAFS" actually stands for
"Lightweight Authorization File System".  Or possibly for
"Least-Authority File System".  There is no truth to the rumour that it
actually stands for "Long-lived Axe-tolerant File System".

[1] http://allmydata.org/trac/tahoe/browser/relnotes.txt?rev=3853
[2] http://allmydata.org/trac/tahoe/browser/NEWS?rev=4033
[3] http://allmydata.org/trac/tahoe/wiki/RelatedProjects
[4] http://allmydata.org/trac/tahoe/browser/docs/known_issues.txt
[5] http://allmydata.org/trac/tahoe/browser/COPYING.GPL
[6] http://allmydata.org/source/tahoe/trunk/COPYING.TGPPL.html
[7] http://allmydata.org/source/tahoe/trunk/docs/install.html
[8] http://allmydata.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tahoe-dev
[9] http://allmydata.org/trac/tahoe/roadmap
[10] http://allmydata.org/trac/tahoe/browser/CREDITS?rev=4035
[11] http://allmydata.org/trac/tahoe/wiki/Dev
[12] http://allmydata.com
[13] http://allmydata.org/pipermail/tahoe-dev/2009-March/001461.html



From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sun Aug  2 00:46:35 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 21:46:35 -0700
Subject: Custom namespaces
In-Reply-To: <0284d760$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <0284d760$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908012146p11c58419s7d33aa9a2a048f46@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 6:06 PM, Steven
D'Aprano wrote:
> I was playing around with a custom mapping type, and I wanted to use it
> as a namespace, so I tried to use it as my module __dict__:
>
>>>> import __main__
>>>> __main__.__dict__ = MyNamespace()
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ?File "", line 1, in 
> TypeError: readonly attribute
>
> Why is __dict__ made read-only?
>
> I next thought I could change the type of the namespace to my class:
>
>>>> __main__.__dict__.__class__ = MyNamespace
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ?File "", line 1, in 
> TypeError: __class__ assignment: only for heap types
>
> Drat, foiled again!!!
>
> Okay, if I can't do this at the module level, can I at least install a
> custom namespace at the class level?

> Apparently not. It looks like the namespace provided to the class
> constructor gets copied when the class is made.

> Is there any way to install a custom type as a namespace?

For classes/objects, yes, using metaclasses.
See the __prepare__() method in PEP 3115:
http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3115/

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From bhardwajjayesh7 at gmail.com  Sun Aug  2 02:11:43 2009
From: bhardwajjayesh7 at gmail.com (golu)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 23:11:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: cgi script
Message-ID: 

Hi,
i started learning cgi few days ago in python and everything went
fine  until i started getting the follwing error
"
The server encountered an internal error and was unable to complete
your request. Either the server is overloaded or there was an error in
a CGI script.

If you think this is a server error, please contact the webmaster. "
  i am using apache on xampp. plz help


From michael at altra-optics.co.uk  Sun Aug  2 02:34:56 2009
From: michael at altra-optics.co.uk (Michael M Mason)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 07:34:56 +0100
Subject: Newbie thwarted by sys.path on Vista
In-Reply-To: 
References: <7djs50F2bsubuU1@mid.individual.net>
	
Message-ID: <7dks7jF2ccjstU1@mid.individual.net>


"Dave Angel"  wrote in message 
news:mailman.4120.1249172970.8015.python-list at python.org...
> Michael M Mason wrote:
>> 
I'm running 
>> Python 3.1 on Vista and I can't figure out how to add my own directory to 
>> sys.path.

Thanks to Jon, Piet, David and Dave for the responses.

> sys.path gets its values from several places.

Ah, I'd misunderstood the docs: I thought it came from just one place (which 
I couldn't find).

> Anyway, I'd suggest adding it to PythonPath, and if it's empty, just 
> create it with the directory you need.

Thanks--that worked!

> I'm hoping you know you can also add to sys.path directly during script 
> initialization.  It's just a list, and is writeable.

Yes, but I'm mainly playing in IDLE and I was getting a bit fed up of 
repeatedly typing
  import sys
  sys.path.append('C:/Users/Michael/Code/Python')
  import mystuff

-- 
Michael




From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Aug  2 02:47:41 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 02 Aug 2009 06:47:41 GMT
Subject: Python processors? : WAS Re: Does python have the capability
	for    driver development ?
References: 
	<4a7151b2$0$17782$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr>
	
	
	<2d8298b9-b857-4b3d-ae63-2056d80cdf7f@d4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<7dkbcqF2c6aqgU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <02852746$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 14:19:45 +1200, greg wrote:

> That's what killed things like the Lisp machine. Their developers
> couldn't keep up with the huge resources that people like Intel and
> Motorola had to throw at CPU development, so eventually a
> general-purpose CPU could run Lisp faster than a Lisp machine.

When you say "eventually", I think you mean "decades ago". I recall a 
collaboration between Apple and Texas Instruments to build a Macintosh 
with a Lisp Machine in the late 1980s. From the one box, you could run 
two computers simultaneously, with two operating systems, one running the 
Motorola 68020 and the other a Lisp Machine processor.

I don't think it sold very well -- by memory, benchmarks showed that for 
half (or less) of the price, you could run Lisp in software on a vanilla 
Mac and the software would be faster than running it on the Lisp Machine.

TI also had at least one Nubus card for the Mac running a Lisp Machine:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TI_Explorer

On a similar note, there were Forth machines also available for the Apple 
Macintosh. Unlike Lisp, I think they suffered from the general lack of 
popularity of Forth rather than lack of speed.



-- 
Steven


From efotinis at oohay.com  Sun Aug  2 02:59:41 2009
From: efotinis at oohay.com (eliasf)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 09:59:41 +0300
Subject: Get Cliet IP Address
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <1249196395.629238@athprx04>

"Fred Atkinson" wrote:
> What is the function to obtain the client browser's IP
> address?

Do you mean the external public IP to the Internet? When I wanted to log the 
dynamic IP that my ADSL connection gets, I used whatismyip.com like this:

    import urllib2

    QUERY_URL = 'http://www.whatismyip.com/automation/n09230945.asp'

    def query():
        """Get IP as a string.

        As per the whatismyip.com automation rules, this function should not
        be called more ofter than every 5 minutes.
        """
        return urllib2.urlopen(QUERY_URL).read()

There's probably a better way, but I'm not very good with networking.  :o) 



From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sun Aug  2 03:14:41 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 00:14:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: cgi script
References: 
Message-ID: <007247ae-53b8-4ce7-ad85-eb332b455f41@2g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 1, 11:11?pm, golu  wrote:
> Hi,
> i started learning cgi few days ago in python and everything went
> fine ?until i started getting the follwing error
> "
> The server encountered an internal error and was unable to complete
> your request. Either the server is overloaded or there was an error in
> a CGI script.


Your script has a syntax error.  (You forgot a colon or something like
that.)

If you can, try to run the file directly from a Python interpreter to
see where the error is.


Carl Banks


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Aug  2 03:18:53 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 02 Aug 2009 07:18:53 GMT
Subject: Custom namespaces
References: <0284d760$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <02852e95$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 01 Aug 2009 21:46:35 -0700, Chris Rebert wrote:

>> Is there any way to install a custom type as a namespace?
> 
> For classes/objects, yes, using metaclasses. See the __prepare__()
> method in PEP 3115: http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3115/

Looks good, but that's Python 3 only, yes?

At least, I can't get the metaclass to change the __dict__ in Python 2.6. 
There's obviously no __prepare__ before 3.0, but I tried the following, 
and still __dict__ ends up as a regular dict. Am I missing something?


class VerboseDict(dict):
    def __getitem__(self, item):
        print ("Looking up key '%s'..." % item)
        return super(VerboseDict, self).__getitem__(item)

class Meta(type):
    def __new__(cls, name, bases, namespace):
        namespace = VerboseDict(namespace)
        obj = super(Meta, cls).__new__(cls, name, bases, namespace)
        return obj

MyClass = Meta('MyClass', (object,), dict(x=1, y=2))





-- 
Steven


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sun Aug  2 03:31:05 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 00:31:05 -0700
Subject: Custom namespaces
In-Reply-To: <02852e95$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <0284d760$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<02852e95$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908020031h32fadb65ye7e306138205a751@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 12:18 AM, Steven
D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sat, 01 Aug 2009 21:46:35 -0700, Chris Rebert wrote:
>
>>> Is there any way to install a custom type as a namespace?
>>
>> For classes/objects, yes, using metaclasses. See the __prepare__()
>> method in PEP 3115: http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3115/
>
> Looks good, but that's Python 3 only, yes?

Correct.

> At least, I can't get the metaclass to change the __dict__ in Python 2.6.
> There's obviously no __prepare__ before 3.0, but I tried the following,
> and still __dict__ ends up as a regular dict. Am I missing something?
>
>
> class VerboseDict(dict):
> ? ?def __getitem__(self, item):
> ? ? ? ?print ("Looking up key '%s'..." % item)
> ? ? ? ?return super(VerboseDict, self).__getitem__(item)
>
> class Meta(type):
> ? ?def __new__(cls, name, bases, namespace):
> ? ? ? ?namespace = VerboseDict(namespace)
> ? ? ? ?obj = super(Meta, cls).__new__(cls, name, bases, namespace)
> ? ? ? ?return obj

I would /guess/ that type.__new__() is internally doing the equivalent
of dict(namespace). Hence why the addition of __prepare__() was
necessary; it's probably impossible to accomplish what you want in
earlier Python versions.

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Aug  2 03:35:08 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 02 Aug 2009 07:35:08 GMT
Subject: Generate a new object each time a name is imported
Message-ID: <02853264$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

I would like to generate a new object each time I import a name from a 
module, rather than getting the same object each time. For example, 
currently I might do something like this:

# Module
count = 0
def factory():
    # Generate a unique object each time this is called
    global count
    count += 1
    return "Object #%d" % count


# Calling module
from Module import factory
a = factory()  # a == "Object #1"
b = factory()  # b == "Object #2"
del factory


I'm looking for a way to hide the generation of objects from the caller, 
so I could do something like this:

from Module import factory() as a  # a == "Object #1"
from Module import factory() as b  # b == "Object #2"

except of course that syntax is illegal.



-- 
Steven


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Sun Aug  2 03:38:22 2009
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 00:38:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Generate a new object each time a name is imported
References: <02853264$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 2, 12:35?am, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
>
> I'm looking for a way to hide the generation of objects from the caller,
> so I could do something like this:
>
> from Module import factory() as a ?# a == "Object #1"
> from Module import factory() as b ?# b == "Object #2"
>

Explicit is better than implicit. In other words, I don't see why you
need to hide this. Just import the factory function and call it.

from Module import factory
a = factory()


From hniksic at xemacs.org  Sun Aug  2 04:23:51 2009
From: hniksic at xemacs.org (Hrvoje Niksic)
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 10:23:51 +0200
Subject: Generate a new object each time a name is imported
References: <02853264$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <87tz0qei94.fsf@busola.homelinux.net>

Steven D'Aprano  writes:

> I'm looking for a way to hide the generation of objects from the caller, 
> so I could do something like this:
>
> from Module import factory() as a  # a == "Object #1"
> from Module import factory() as b  # b == "Object #2"
>
> except of course that syntax is illegal.

That sounds reasonable (zen quotes aside), but it's just not possible in
current Python.  It would require for any use of "a" in subsequent code
to not only refer to an object, but also to automagically call it.  I
know of no mechanism to do that.  While Python allows intricate
customization of access to objects, simply referring to a name remains
fixed in meaning, probably intentionally.

(The "cell" mechanism used to implement closures sounds like it could
help, but a cell only stores a single value, not a factory, and it
doesn't apply to global variables anyway.)


From Ron.Barak at lsi.com  Sun Aug  2 04:45:09 2009
From: Ron.Barak at lsi.com (Barak, Ron)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 09:45:09 +0100
Subject: Run pyc file without specifying python path ?
In-Reply-To: <4A71D35F.3090800@dejaviewphoto.com>
References: 
	<7F0503CD69378F49BE0DC30661C6CCF6701A26C4@enbmail01.lsi.com>
	<4A708F68.1010505@ieee.org>
	<7F0503CD69378F49BE0DC30661C6CCF6701A26C7@enbmail01.lsi.com>
	<4A7199FF.8010202@dejaviewphoto.com>
	<7F0503CD69378F49BE0DC30661C6CCF6701A26D2@enbmail01.lsi.com>
	<4A71D35F.3090800@dejaviewphoto.com>
Message-ID: <7F0503CD69378F49BE0DC30661C6CCF67D49D30E@enbmail01.lsi.com>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Angel [mailto:davea at dejaviewphoto.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 20:08
> To: Barak, Ron
> Cc: 'python-list at python.org'
> Subject: Re: Run pyc file without specifying python path ?
>
> Barak, Ron wrote:
> > Hi Dave,
> >
> > On second thoughts, I may have a problem implementing the
> wrapper solution, because my actual test_pyc.pyc, needs to
> parse its command line.
> > Namely, the actual call to test_pyc.pyc looks something like this:
> >
> > $ python  test_pyc.py -U dave -PpasswoRD -C CreateMcGroupOnVolume
> > --SVMs_IPs '10.1.1.1 , 10.1.1.2' -n "host1,host2" -g gn -j
> jn -s svn
> > -t tvn -p pool1 -l -c
> >
> > And I don't know of a way to add these parameters to the "import
> > test_pyc" in wrapper
> >
> > Is there a way to pass information to an imported module ?
> (Sorry if there's an obvious answer, I just cannot figure it out).
> >
> > Bye,
> > Ron.
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Dave Angel [mailto:davea at dejaviewphoto.com]
> >> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 16:03
> >> To: Barak, Ron
> >> Cc: 'Dave Angel'; 'python-list at python.org'
> >> Subject: RE: Run pyc file without specifying python path ?
> >>
> >> Barak, Ron wrote:
> >>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: Dave Angel [mailto:davea at ieee.org]
> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 21:05
> >>>> To: Barak, Ron
> >>>> Cc: 'python-list at python.org'
> >>>> Subject: Re: Run pyc file without specifying python path ?
> >>>>
> >>>> Barak, Ron wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I wanted to make a python byte-code file executable,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> expecting to be able to run it without specifying
> "python" on the
> >>>> (Linux bash) command line.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> So, I wrote the following:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> [root at VMLinux1 python]# cat test_pyc.py #!/usr/bin/env python
> >>>>>
> >>>>> print "hello"
> >>>>> [root at VMLinux1 python]#
> >>>>>
> >>>>> and made its pyc file executable:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> [root at VMLinux1 python]# ls -ls test_pyc.pyc
> >>>>> 4 -rwxr-xr-x  1 root root 106 Jul 29 14:22 test_pyc.pyc
> >>>>> [root at VMLinux1 python]#
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So, I see:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> [root at VMLinux1 python]# file test_pyc.py*
> >>>>> test_pyc.py:  a python script text executable
> >>>>> test_pyc.pyc: python 2.3 byte-compiled
> >>>>> [root at VMLinux1 python]#
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If I try to do the following, no problem:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> [root at VMLinux1 python]# python test_pyc.pyc hello
> >>>>> [root at VMLinux1 python]#
> >>>>>
> >>>>> However, the following fails:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> [root at VMLinux1 python]# ./test_pyc.pyc
> >>>>> -bash: ./test_pyc.pyc: cannot execute binary file
> >>>>> [root at VMLinux1 python]#
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Is there a way to run a pyc file without specifying the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> python path ?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Bye,
> >>>>> Ron.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> I don't currently run Unix, but I think I know the problem.
> >>>>
> >>>> In a text file, the shell examines the first line, and if
> >>>>
> >> it begins
> >>
> >>>> #!
> >>>> it's assumed to point to the executable of an
> interpreter for that
> >>>> text file.  Presumably the same trick doesn't work for a
> .pyc file.
> >>>>
> >>>> Why not write a trivial wrapper.py file, don't compile
> it, and let
> >>>> that invoke the main code in the .pyc file?
> >>>>
> >>>> Then make wrapper.py executable, and you're ready to go.
> >>>>
> >>>> DaveA
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> Hi Dave,
> >>> Your solution sort of defeats my intended purpose (sorry
> >>>
> >> for not divulging my 'hidden agenda').
> >>
> >>> I wanted my application to "hide" the fact that it's a
> >>>
> >> python script, and look as much as possible like it's a compiled
> >> program.
> >>
> >>> The reason I don't just give my user a py file, is that I
> >>>
> >> don't want a cleaver user to change the innards of the script.
> >>
> >>> On the other hand, I don't want to make a compiled
> >>>
> >> (freezed?) version of the application, because it'll grow the
> >> resulting file significantly, and I don't have the
> experience to know
> >> how it will run on different Linuxes.
> >>
> >>> Bye,
> >>> Ron.
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Most of the other answers basically paraphrased my suggestion of
> >> making a wrapper file, not compiling it, and making it
> executable.
> >> With that
> >> approach, the user just types   "wrapper.py" on his command line.
> >>
> >> And wrapper.py only needs two lines, a shebang, and an
> import, no big
> >> deal if the user modifies it.  The rest of your code can be .pyc
> >> files.
> >>
> >> Steven makes some good points.  You have to define what level of
> >> clever you're protecting from.  A determined hacker will get in no
> >> matter what you do, unless you want to ship the program in a
> >> proprietary embedded system, encased in epoxy.
> >> Further, if you have an extension of .py or .pyc, a knowledgeable
> >> hacker will know it's probably python.
> >>
> >> You imply you want it to run unmodifed on multiple unknown Linux
> >> versions.  I think that lets out binfmt solutions.
> >> That means you need to test and support not only multiple Linux
> >> implementations, but multiple Python versions, because who
> knows what
> >> the user may have installed.  I think you need to rethink your
> >> support strategy.  And maybe concentrate on being able to detect
> >> change, rather than prevent it.
> >>
> >> DaveA
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> (Please don't top-post.  It puts responses out of order)
>
> You don't have to do anything special.  Any module can import
> sys, and parse sys.argv, as long as it wasn't yet modified.
>
> DaveA
>

Hi Dave,

It seems like I don't understand your solution.
I use the (appatched) soapAPI.py as the wrapper to parsing.pyc.
However, if I do (for instance):

$ python -u parsing.pyc -U aaa

The last line of the output is (as expected):

return_code: 12 ; params: {'username': 'aaa'}

But, if I try the following:

$ soapAPI.py -U aaa

I don't get this line. Only the output to stderr gets printed to the screen.

Bye,
Ron.
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From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Aug  2 04:55:04 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 09:55:04 +0100
Subject: Newbie thwarted by sys.path on Vista
In-Reply-To: <7dks7jF2ccjstU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <7djs50F2bsubuU1@mid.individual.net>	
	<7dks7jF2ccjstU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: 

Michael M Mason wrote:
> 
> "Dave Angel"  wrote in message 
> news:mailman.4120.1249172970.8015.python-list at python.org...
>> Michael M Mason wrote:
>>> 
I'm 
>>> running Python 3.1 on Vista and I can't figure out how to add my own 
>>> directory to sys.path.
> 
> Thanks to Jon, Piet, David and Dave for the responses.
> 
>> sys.path gets its values from several places.
> 
> Ah, I'd misunderstood the docs: I thought it came from just one place 
> (which I couldn't find).
> 
>> Anyway, I'd suggest adding it to PythonPath, and if it's empty, just 
>> create it with the directory you need.
> 
> Thanks--that worked!
Be careful, I'm screwed things up on several occasions by placing a file 
on PYTHONPATH that overrides a file in the standard library, test.py 
being my favourite!
> 
>> I'm hoping you know you can also add to sys.path directly during 
>> script initialization.  It's just a list, and is writeable.
> 
> Yes, but I'm mainly playing in IDLE and I was getting a bit fed up of 
> repeatedly typing
>  import sys
>  sys.path.append('C:/Users/Michael/Code/Python')
>  import mystuff
> 
-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From michael at altra-optics.co.uk  Sun Aug  2 05:15:25 2009
From: michael at altra-optics.co.uk (Michael M Mason)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 10:15:25 +0100
Subject: Newbie thwarted by sys.path on Vista
In-Reply-To: 
References: <7djs50F2bsubuU1@mid.individual.net>	<7dks7jF2ccjstU1@mid.individual.net>
	
Message-ID: <7dl3pkF2cnqf5U1@mid.individual.net>

"Mark Lawrence"  wrote in message 
news:mailman.4130.1249203322.8015.python-list at python.org...
> Be careful, I'm screwed things up on several occasions by placing a file 
> on PYTHONPATH that overrides a file in the standard library, test.py being 
> my favourite!

Thanks.  Sure enough, I've already got my own test.py but I hadn't 
discovered it was a problem yet...

-- 
Michael 



From davea at ieee.org  Sun Aug  2 05:35:34 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 05:35:34 -0400
Subject: Run pyc file without specifying python path ?
In-Reply-To: <7F0503CD69378F49BE0DC30661C6CCF67D49D30E@enbmail01.lsi.com>
References: 	<7F0503CD69378F49BE0DC30661C6CCF6701A26C4@enbmail01.lsi.com>	<4A708F68.1010505@ieee.org>
	<7F0503CD69378F49BE0DC30661C6CCF6701A26C7@enbmail01.lsi.com>
	<4A7199FF.8010202@dejaviewphoto.com>
	<7F0503CD69378F49BE0DC30661C6CCF6701A26D2@enbmail01.lsi.com>
	<4A71D35F.3090800@dejaviewphoto.com>
	<7F0503CD69378F49BE0DC30661C6CCF67D49D30E@enbmail01.lsi.com>
Message-ID: <4A755DE6.1000906@ieee.org>

Barak, Ron wrote:
> Hi Dave,
>
> It seems like I don't understand your solution.
> I use the (appatched) soapAPI.py as the wrapper to parsing.pyc.
> However, if I do (for instance):
>
> $ python -u parsing.pyc -U aaa
>
> The last line of the output is (as expected):
>
> return_code: 12 ; params: {'username': 'aaa'}
>
> But, if I try the following:
>
> $ soapAPI.py -U aaa
>
> I don't get this line. Only the output to stderr gets printed to the screen.
>
> Bye,
> Ron.
>
>   
Hi Ron,

To make it easier for anybody following this thread, let me post the 
minimum equivalent source files, inline.

parsing.py:
------------------------------
#!/usr/bin/env python

import sys

def main():
    print >> sys.stderr, "This is stderr output"
    return  5, sys.argv

if __name__ == "__main__":
    return_code, params = main()
    print "return_code:",return_code,"; params:",params
    sys.exit(return_code)
-------------------------------
soapapi.py:
-------------------------------
#!/usr/bin/env python

import sys
import parsing

parsing.main()
------------------------------


When I run soapapi.;py, it indeed prints only the stderr output.

The solution is to move (most or all) of the top-level code of 
parsing.py into a main() function.  Since you already have a main(), 
I'll rename that, and make a new one that calls it.

new   parsing.py:
-------------------------------
#!/usr/bin/env python

import sys

def innermain():
    print >> sys.stderr, "This is stderr output"
    return  5, sys.argv

def main():
    return_code, params = innermain()
    print "return_code:",return_code,"; params:",params
    sys.exit(return_code)

if __name__ == "__main__":
    main()
-------------------------------

The output is now two lines, one from innermain(), and one from main().  
And it's the same whether the user runs  parsing.py  or   soapAPI.py

To clarify what happened, realize that when the user invokes  
parsing.py, the module is considered a script, and gets a pseudo-name of 
"__main__"    When that same module is imported by another one, it is 
considered a library module, and gets its own name "parsing"

So any logic that explicitly checks for "__main__" has to change,  
because we want identical behavior in the two cases.

DaveA



From davea at ieee.org  Sun Aug  2 05:51:45 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 05:51:45 -0400
Subject: Newbie Question regarding __init__()
In-Reply-To: <6ccf5dbe-4b71-4159-88bb-c6a14aa785a9@k26g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
References: 			
	
	<6ccf5dbe-4b71-4159-88bb-c6a14aa785a9@k26g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A7561B1.9060808@ieee.org>

Simon wrote:
> Okay I will fix my code and include "self" and see what happens.  I
> know I tried that before and got another error which I suspect was
> another newbie error.
>
> The idea behind the init_Pre is that I can put custom code here to
> customize the __init__ instead of creating a new subclass.  This kind
> of hook pattern allows you to flatten your inheritance hierarchy.  I
> can choose in the init_Pre method to execute code before the init_exec
> (which contains the default __init__ code) and still execute the
> init_Exec method or I can completely customize the entire __init__ by
> returning False from init_Pre and prevent the init_Exec from being
> called.  I use this type of pattern with almost all my methods.  In
> this way I can create a less complicated inheritance chain but still
> have have custom code when needed without sub-classing.
>
> I am use to Visual FoxPro which where you can do
>
> =is.init_Pre().And.This.init_Exec() and the result is discarded so
> that is why it looks the way it does.  In this form init_Exec has to
> return a value.  However, If self.init_Pre(): self.init_Exec() would
> work the same and then I could avoid returning a value.
>
> Thanks,
> Simon
>
>
> On Aug 1, 5:52 am, Dave Angel  wrote:
>   
>> Nat Williams wrote:
>>     
>>> As MRAB described, ALL instance methods need to accept 'self' as a first
>>> parameter, as that will be passed to them implicitly when they are called.
>>> This includes __init__.  The name 'self' is just a commonly accepted
>>> convention for the name of the instance object passed to methods.  You don't
>>> have to call it that, but you really should.
>>>       
>>> Take a look athttp://docs.python.org/tutorial/classes.html#class-objects
>>> It might help shed some light on how methods and instances work.
>>>       
>>> One other thing.  I'm a little confused by the first line of
>>> dcObject.__init__:
>>>       
>>> self.init_Pre() and self.init_Exec()
>>>       
>>> I suspect this does not do what you think it does.  init_Pre and init_Exec
>>> will both be called by this expression (unless init_Pre throws an exception,
>>> of course).  You're not getting anything here that you wouldn't by just
>>> calling each method on a separate line, except just making it harder to
>>> read.
>>>       
>> Read the doc-string for init_Pre() and for init_Exec().  The final
>> version of init_Pre() will return False in some circumstances, and in
>> those circumstances Simon doesn't want init_Exec() to be called.  He's
>> deliberately using the short-circuit evaluation of  'and'  to accomplish
>> that.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     
>>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 8:53 PM, Simon  wrote:
>>>       
>>>> Hi
>>>>         
>>>> So should the dcObject class include the "self" as well since I have
>>>> not defined an __init__ method in dcCursor?
>>>>         
>>>> Simon
>>>>         
>>>> --
>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>>>         
>> Every one of those methods in both of those classes need a "self" first
>> argument.  As others have said, all instance methods need a 'self.'
>>     
>
>   
(Please don't top-post.  You should put new responses at the end of 
quoted text, or sometimes inline if that's clearer.)

I don't understand your comparison to Foxpro.  read on.

As your code was last posted, you don't need a return value from 
init_Exec()  Every function that doesn't have an explicit return will 
return None.  And None is interpreted as False in an "and" expression.  
If you had an "if" around the whole thing, then you'd care.

DaveA


From davea at ieee.org  Sun Aug  2 06:00:28 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 06:00:28 -0400
Subject: Help understanding the decisions *behind* python?
In-Reply-To: <988a5f49-7907-4351-bfd0-7bb05e821795@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<988a5f49-7907-4351-bfd0-7bb05e821795@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A7563BC.2040406@ieee.org>



sturlamolden wrote:
> On 20 Jul, 18:27, Phillip B Oldham  wrote:
>
>   
>> We're not looking to start any arguments or religious wars and we're
>> not asking that python be changed into something its not. We'd simply
>> like to understand the decision behind the lists and tuple structures.
>> We feel that in not "getting" the difference between the two types we
>> may be missing out on using these data structures to their full
>> potential.
>>     
>
> A crude simplification would be:
>
> - A Python programmer will use a tuple where a C programmer will use a
> struct.
>
> - Python and C programmers use lists and arrays similarly.
>
> Tuples are used for passing arguments to and from a function. Common
> use of tuples include multiple return values and optional arguments
> (*args).
>
> It has already been mentioned that tuples are immutable and can be
> used as dictionary keys.
>
>
>   
I think collections.namedtuple, introduced in Python 2.6, might help 
bridge the gap between a traditional tuple and a C struct.




From __peter__ at web.de  Sun Aug  2 06:33:03 2009
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 12:33:03 +0200
Subject: Generate a new object each time a name is imported
References: <02853264$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> I would like to generate a new object each time I import a name from a
> module, rather than getting the same object each time. For example,
> currently I might do something like this:
> 
> # Module
> count = 0
> def factory():
>     # Generate a unique object each time this is called
>     global count
>     count += 1
>     return "Object #%d" % count
> 
> 
> # Calling module
> from Module import factory
> a = factory()  # a == "Object #1"
> b = factory()  # b == "Object #2"
> del factory
> 
> 
> I'm looking for a way to hide the generation of objects from the caller,
> so I could do something like this:
> 
> from Module import factory() as a  # a == "Object #1"
> from Module import factory() as b  # b == "Object #2"
> 
> except of course that syntax is illegal.

How about

>>> class A(object):
...     def __init__(self):
...             self._n = 0
...     @property
...     def a(self):
...             try:
...                     return self._n
...             finally:
...                     self._n += 1
...
>>> import sys
>>> sys.modules["yadda"] = A()
>>> from yadda import a
>>> from yadda import a as b
>>> a, b
(0, 1)

Peter



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Aug  2 06:49:33 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 02 Aug 2009 10:49:33 GMT
Subject: Generate a new object each time a name is imported
References: <02853264$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <02855ff5$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 12:33:03 +0200, Peter Otten wrote:

> How about
[snip]
>>>> import sys
>>>> sys.modules["yadda"] = A()

Perfect! That's exactly the sort of thing I'm looking for.

Thanks for everyone who answered.




-- 
Steven


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Aug  2 07:04:25 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 12:04:25 +0100
Subject: Newbie thwarted by sys.path on Vista
In-Reply-To: <7dl3pkF2cnqf5U1@mid.individual.net>
References: <7djs50F2bsubuU1@mid.individual.net>	<7dks7jF2ccjstU1@mid.individual.net>	
	<7dl3pkF2cnqf5U1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: 

Michael M Mason wrote:
> "Mark Lawrence"  wrote in message 
> news:mailman.4130.1249203322.8015.python-list at python.org...
>> Be careful, I'm screwed things up on several occasions by placing a 
>> file on PYTHONPATH that overrides a file in the standard library, 
>> test.py being my favourite!
> 
> Thanks.  Sure enough, I've already got my own test.py but I hadn't 
> discovered it was a problem yet...
> 
Typical, tried to reproduce it and can't!  Still at least you've been 
warned.

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From http  Sun Aug  2 07:18:34 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 02 Aug 2009 04:18:34 -0700
Subject: Generate a new object each time a name is imported
References: <02853264$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <7x63d631md.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> writes:
> >>> import sys
> >>> sys.modules["yadda"] = A()

OMG.... wow.  I bow to you.  But I'm not sure whether that's bowing in
awe or in terror.


From marcusw at cox.net  Sun Aug  2 08:08:34 2009
From: marcusw at cox.net (Marcus Wanner)
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 08:08:34 -0400
Subject: Help understanding the decisions *behind* python?
In-Reply-To: <988a5f49-7907-4351-bfd0-7bb05e821795@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<988a5f49-7907-4351-bfd0-7bb05e821795@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On 8/1/2009 9:31 PM, sturlamolden wrote:
> - Python and C programmers use lists and arrays similarly.

I'm guessing that's because of the brackets...

Marcus


From __peter__ at web.de  Sun Aug  2 08:19:01 2009
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 14:19:01 +0200
Subject: Generate a new object each time a name is imported
References: <02853264$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<7x63d631md.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: 

 wrote:

KNode cannot parse your From-string correctly. Strange.

> Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> writes:
>> >>> import sys
>> >>> sys.modules["yadda"] = A()
> 
> OMG.... wow.  I bow to you.  But I'm not sure whether that's bowing in
> awe or in terror.

I don't know who invented it, but it's an old trick. It even made it into 
the standard library (email.LazyImporter).

For the record: I don't recommend it.

Peter



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Aug  2 08:36:41 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 02 Aug 2009 12:36:41 GMT
Subject: Skipping a superclass
Message-ID: <02857910$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

I have a series of subclasses like this:

class A(object):
    def method(self, *args):
        print "Lots of work gets done here in the base class"

class B(A):
    def method(self, *args):
        print "A little bit of work gets done in B"
        super(B, self).method(*args)

class C(B):
    def method(self, *args):
        print "A little bit of work gets done in C"
        super(C, self).method(*args)


However, the work done in C.method() makes the work done in B.method() 
obsolete: I want one to run, or the other, but not both. C does need to 
inherit from B, for the sake of the other methods, so I want C.method() 
*only* to skip B while still inheriting from A. (All other methods have 
to inherit from B as normal.)

So what I have done is change the call to super in C to super(B, self) 
instead of super(C, self). It seems to work, but is this safe to do? Or 
are there strange side-effects I haven't seen yet?



-- 
Steven


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sun Aug  2 09:02:10 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 06:02:10 -0700
Subject: Skipping a superclass
In-Reply-To: <02857910$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <02857910$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908020602u37fee362i35019d16b857f755@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 5:36 AM, Steven
D'Aprano wrote:
> I have a series of subclasses like this:
>
> class A(object):
> ? ?def method(self, *args):
> ? ? ? ?print "Lots of work gets done here in the base class"
>
> class B(A):
> ? ?def method(self, *args):
> ? ? ? ?print "A little bit of work gets done in B"
> ? ? ? ?super(B, self).method(*args)
>
> class C(B):
> ? ?def method(self, *args):
> ? ? ? ?print "A little bit of work gets done in C"
> ? ? ? ?super(C, self).method(*args)
>
>
> However, the work done in C.method() makes the work done in B.method()
> obsolete: I want one to run, or the other, but not both. C does need to
> inherit from B, for the sake of the other methods, so I want C.method()
> *only* to skip B while still inheriting from A. (All other methods have
> to inherit from B as normal.)
>
> So what I have done is change the call to super in C to super(B, self)
> instead of super(C, self). It seems to work, but is this safe to do? Or
> are there strange side-effects I haven't seen yet?

Barring some true weirdness in super(), I don't /think/ so. It
obviously works fine in the single-inheritance case, and (after some
brute-force testing) the only permitted multiple inheritances
involving C and (A or B) always have C ahead of B in the MRO (method
resolution order).

The fact that you're wanting to bypass a superclass method might
suggest however, that your hierarchy could be structured better. Have
you considered moving B.method() into another, new class (e.g. newB)
which subclasses B? Then C can inherit from B without inheriting the
unwanted method, while B's functionality still exists, just under a
new name (newB).

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From lists at cheimes.de  Sun Aug  2 09:08:25 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 15:08:25 +0200
Subject: Newbie thwarted by sys.path on Vista
In-Reply-To: <7djs50F2bsubuU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <7djs50F2bsubuU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: 

Michael M Mason wrote:
> I'm running Python 3.1 on Vista and I can't figure out how to add my own 
> directory to  sys.path.
> 
> The docs suggest that I can either add it to the PYTHONPATH environment 
> variable or to the PythonPath key in the registry.  However, PYTHONPATH 
> doesn't exist, and updating the registry key has no effect (and in any case 
> the contents aren't the same as sys.path).
> 
> So where does sys.path get its value from, and how do I change it?

You can use my PEP 370 (http://python.org/dev/peps/pep-0370/) and a .pth 
file to extend the search path for modules.

 >>> import os
 >>> import site
 >>> site.USER_SITE
'/home/heimes/.local/lib/python2.6/site-packages'
 >>> if not os.path.isdir(site.USER_SITE):
...     os.makedirs(site.USER_SITE)
...
 >>> pth = open(os.path.join(site.USER_SITE, "michal.pth"), "w")
 >>> pth.write("C:/Users/Michael/Code/Python\n")
 >>> pth.close()

Restart Python, your custom search path should be in sys.path.

Christian



From ifl2009 at shu.edu  Sun Aug  2 09:34:37 2009
From: ifl2009 at shu.edu (IFL 2009)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 09:34:37 -0400
Subject: IFL 2009: Call for Papers and Participation
Message-ID: 

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

From fatkinson at mishmash.com  Sun Aug  2 09:42:52 2009
From: fatkinson at mishmash.com (Fred Atkinson)
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 06:42:52 -0700
Subject: Seeding the rand() Generator
Message-ID: 

	How does one seed the rand() generator when retrieving random
recordings in MySQL?  

	Regards, 



						Fred 


From jizzai at gmail.com  Sun Aug  2 09:50:14 2009
From: jizzai at gmail.com (Jizzai)
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 13:50:14 GMT
Subject: Is python buffer overflow proof?
Message-ID: 

Is a _pure_ python program buffer overflow proof?

For example in C++ you can declare a char[9] to hold user input.
If the user inputs 10+ chars a buffer overflow occurs.

In python, I cannot seem to find a way to define/restrict a string length.
This is probably by design and raises the topic in question.

Am curious to see the opinions of people who know.

TIA.


From albert at spenarnc.xs4all.nl  Sun Aug  2 09:54:04 2009
From: albert at spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst)
Date: 02 Aug 2009 13:54:04 GMT
Subject: Colour of output text
References: <03c4ceed-c49b-4dd0-a585-e6169b02e0eb@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
Jean-Michel Pichavant   wrote:
>Nobody wrote:
>> On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 09:23:54 +0000, garabik-news-2005-05 wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>> I would like to learn a way of changing the colour of a particular
>>>>> part of the output text. I've tried the following
>>>>>
>>>> On Unix operating systems this would be done through the curses interface:
>>>>
>>>> http://docs.python.org/library/curses.html
>>>>
>>> Or using ANSI colour codes:
>>>
>>> colours = {
>>>             'none'       :    "",
>>>             'default'    :    "\033[0m",
>>>             'bold'       :    "\033[1m",
>>>
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>
>>>             # non-standard attributes, supported by some terminals
>>>
>>
>> This comment should have appeared immediately after "none" ;)
>>
>> Hard-coding control/escape sequences is just lame. Use the curses modules
>> to obtain the correct sequences for the terminal.
>>
>>
>As the OP I'm really interested in doing so. I currently have all my
>colors hard-coded.
>Now It may be lame but as soon as I call curses.initscr(), it's just
>messing up with my terminal, moreover I didn't figure out how to "print
>'hello'" using curses color codes.
>Anyone has an example ? I'm pretty sure it may fit in one line.

In general initscr() ought to work. It fails if it has no/a wrong
idea of what your terminal is.

In the same shell as you run run your program type

set | grep -i term

Now some entry should show up, e.g.
TERM=xterm

infocmp $TERM

should fetch information about your terminal, from the same source
as curses does.

Possible problems are:
- your operating system/configurations lies to curses about the terminal
  or your terminal is not specified at all
- curses has not been properly installed and cannot find the database

Groetjes Albert


>
>JM
>
>


--
-- 
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
albert at spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst



From lob8682 at gmail.com  Sun Aug  2 09:58:47 2009
From: lob8682 at gmail.com (Kamal Kamal)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 06:58:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: "PAK WEB" "PAK WEB TV" "PAK WEBSITES" "PAK WEB DIRECTORY" "PAK WEB 
	HOSTING" "PAK WEB HOST" "PAK WEB HOSTING" "PAK WEB" "PAK WEB" "PAK WEB"
	"PAK 
	WEB" "PAK WEB" "PAK WEB" "PAK WEB" on www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com
Message-ID: 

"PAK WEB"

www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com


"PAK WEB TV"

www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com

 "PAK WEBSITES"

www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com

 "PAK WEB DIRECTORY"

www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com

 "PAK WEB HOSTING"

www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com

 "PAK WEB HOST"

www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com

 "PAK WEB HOSTING"

www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com

 "PAK WEB"

www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com

"PAK WEB"



www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com

"PAK WEB" "PAK WEB" "PAK WEB"


www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com


 "PAK WEB"

www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com


"PAK WEB" on www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com


From albert at spenarnc.xs4all.nl  Sun Aug  2 10:14:53 2009
From: albert at spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst)
Date: 02 Aug 2009 14:14:53 GMT
Subject: A Bug By Any Other Name ...
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
J. Cliff Dyer  wrote:
>On Fri, 2009-07-17 at 20:53 +0000, Albert van der Horst wrote:
>> Because unlike in algol 68 in python whitespace is relevant,
>> we could get by with requiring whitespace:
>>         x= -q                       # okay
>>         a>         8 ** -2                     # okay
>
>This is actually quite thoroughly untrue.  In python, *indentation* is
>significant.  Whitespace (internal to a line) is not.  You can even call
>methods like this if you want:

You totally don't get it. You describe how python is now.
I propose a change to be made to python. Small wonder that that is
different from what it is now.

>
>>>> s = 'abc'
>>>> s        .     upper()
>ABC

You prove nothing by giving examples.
You can disprove by giving one counter example,
here it goes.

Whitespace (internal to a line) is significant.
In Python you cannot change
      xleftgoing = 123000000
to
        x left going = 123 000 000

(You can in Algol68)

>Obviously, that's A Bad Idea(tm), but python's parser won't stop you.

What is a bad idea?
Apparently you are not talking about my idea of changing the parser.
("Pythons parser won't stop you from changing the parser" doesn't
make sense.)

>The ++ operator gotcha is so minor that I can't remember anyone actually
>asking about it on the list (who was actually facing it as a
>problem--this thread was started by idle speculation).  Can we not
>change the language syntax to address non-issues?

As other languages have an Eleventh Commandment against concatenating
operators, the larger issue is hardly futile.

>
>Practicality beats purity, a.k.a. don't you have something better to do?

I'm having a great time, thank you!

>Cheers,
>Cliff

Groetjes Albert

--
-- 
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
albert at spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst



From marcusw at cox.net  Sun Aug  2 10:32:39 2009
From: marcusw at cox.net (Marcus Wanner)
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 10:32:39 -0400
Subject: Is python buffer overflow proof?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 8/2/2009 9:50 AM, Jizzai wrote:
> Is a _pure_ python program buffer overflow proof?
> 
> For example in C++ you can declare a char[9] to hold user input.
> If the user inputs 10+ chars a buffer overflow occurs.
> 
> In python, I cannot seem to find a way to define/restrict a string length.
> This is probably by design and raises the topic in question.
> 
> Am curious to see the opinions of people who know.
> 
> TIA.
I believe that python is buffer overflow proof. In fact, I think that 
even ctypes is overflow proof...

Marcus


From marcusw at cox.net  Sun Aug  2 10:36:18 2009
From: marcusw at cox.net (Marcus Wanner)
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 10:36:18 -0400
Subject: Seeding the rand() Generator
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 8/2/2009 9:42 AM, Fred Atkinson wrote:
> 	How does one seed the rand() generator when retrieving random
> recordings in MySQL?  
> 
> 	Regards, 
> 
> 
> 
> 						Fred 
something like:

import random, time
random.seed(time.time())
#not actual record access code:
sqlite3.recordaccessfuction(recordid = random.rand())

Marcus


From lists at cheimes.de  Sun Aug  2 10:43:25 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 16:43:25 +0200
Subject: Is python buffer overflow proof?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

Marcus Wanner wrote:
> I believe that python is buffer overflow proof. In fact, I think that 
> even ctypes is overflow proof...

No, ctypes isn't buffer overflow proof. ctypes can break and crash a 
Python interpreter easily.

Christian



From matt.urry at googlemail.com  Sun Aug  2 10:45:39 2009
From: matt.urry at googlemail.com (ma3mju)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 07:45:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Processes not exiting
References: <6cfb2f39-c6d6-4d2a-882c-18f21addf206@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <206a63e2-9159-44f0-ac5c-a14055448b47@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On 31 July, 11:27, Piet van Oostrum  wrote:
> >>>>> ma3mju  (m) wrote:
> >m> Hi all,
> >m> I'm having trouble with multiprocessing I'm using it to speed up some
> >m> simulations, I find for large queues when the process reaches the
> >m> poison pill it does not exit whereas for smaller queues it works
> >m> without any problems. Has anyone else had this trouble? Can anyone
> >m> tell me a way around it? The code is in two files below.
>
> How do you know it doesn't exit. You haven't shown any of your output.
>
> I did discover a problem in your code, but it should cause an exception:
>
> >m> #set off some of the easy workers on the hard work (maybe double
> >m> number of hard)
> >m> for i in range(0,num_hard_workers):
> >m> ? ? hard_work_queue.put(None)
> >m> ? ? hard_workers.append(multiprocessing.Process
> >m> (target=GP.RandomWalkGeneralizationErrorParallel,args=
> >m> (hard_work_queue,result_queue,)))
> >m> #wait for all hard workers to finish
> >m> for worker in hard_workers:
> >m> ? ? worker.join()
>
> Here you create new hard workers, but you never start them. The join
> should then give an exception when it reaches these.
> --
> Piet van Oostrum 
> URL:http://pietvanoostrum.com[PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
> Private email: p... at vanoostrum.org

Ok thanks I'll change that In a sec, It never reaches that bit of code
because the easy_workers don't exit so it never gets past the join().

As far as running it goes I get the datapt and number of points
printed to the list for everything in both queues. When it reaches the
end of either queue I get "Poison" on the screen then "here" for each
process but I don't get "worker joined" and as expected don't get
"this should not appear". If I have a look at the processes running
after all queues are supposed to have finished I see all of them
running taking little or no resources. This is running on Ubuntu
Jaunty at home and the same happens on the Debian machine at uni.

The weird thing is that if I run them with less points the processes
do manage to exit.

Thanks

Matt


From matt.urry at googlemail.com  Sun Aug  2 10:48:44 2009
From: matt.urry at googlemail.com (ma3mju)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 07:48:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Processes not exiting
References: <6cfb2f39-c6d6-4d2a-882c-18f21addf206@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <61d7fcbb-17f8-4314-90b6-0a6db22abd6d@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On 31 July, 11:34, MRAB  wrote:
> ma3mju wrote:
> > Hi all,
>
> > I'm having trouble with multiprocessing I'm using it to speed up some
> > simulations, I find for large queues when the process reaches the
> > poison pill it does not exit whereas for smaller queues it works
> > without any problems. Has anyone else had this trouble? Can anyone
> > tell me a way around it? The code is in two files below.
>
> [snip]
>
> > #get number of cores and set the number on concurrent processes
> > num_hard_workers = 2
> > num_workers = multiprocessing.cpu_count()*1.5
> > easy_workers = []
> > hard_workers = []
> > #add poison pill for each worker and create the worker
> > for i in range(0,num_workers-num_hard_workers):
> > ? ? easy_work_queue.put(None)
> > ? ? easy_workers.append(multiprocessing.Process
> > (target=GP.RandomWalkGeneralizationErrorParallel,args=
> > (easy_work_queue,result_queue,)))
> > for i in range(0,num_hard_workers):
> > ? ? hard_work_queue.put(None)
> > ? ? hard_workers.append(multiprocessing.Process
> > (target=GP.RandomWalkGeneralizationErrorParallel,args=
> > (hard_work_queue,result_queue,)))
>
> You have 2 hard workers and ceil(CPU_count * 1.5) - 2 easy workers.
> What if the number of CPUs was 1? That would give 2 hard and 0 easy!
>
> Also, I recommend that you put only 1 'poison pill' in each queue and
> have the workers put it back when they see it.

I'll give that a go in a sec and see if it helps. The processes quit
out for smaller queues though so it should in theory be alright. I'm
not too fussed about the CPU's it's only there because I change
between a uni PC and home one with a different number of cores in each
but both greater than one.


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Sun Aug  2 11:11:22 2009
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 08:11:22 -0700
Subject: Predefined Variables
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

Piet van Oostrum wrote:
>>>>>> Scott David Daniels  (SDD) wrote:
>> SDD> Stephen Cuppett (should have written in this order):
>>>> "Fred Atkinson"  wrote ...
>>>>> Is there a pre-defined variable that returns the GET line...
>>>> os.environment('QUERY_STRING')
>> SDD> Maybe you mean:
>> SDD>     os.environ['USER']
> Let's take the best of both:
> os.environ['QUERY_STRING']

Sorry about that.  I was testing expression before posting, and I don't
do that much cgi stuff.  I forgot to restore the variable name.

--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Aug  2 11:18:27 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 02 Aug 2009 15:18:27 GMT
Subject: Is python buffer overflow proof?
References: 
Message-ID: <02859ef9$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 13:50:14 +0000, Jizzai wrote:

> Is a _pure_ python program buffer overflow proof?

It's supposed to be.
 
> For example in C++ you can declare a char[9] to hold user input. If the
> user inputs 10+ chars a buffer overflow occurs.
>
> In python, I cannot seem to find a way to define/restrict a string
> length. This is probably by design and raises the topic in question.

That's a separate issue from being buffer overflow proof. You can't 
specify that a string have a maximum of N characters except by slicing 
the string after it's formed:

s = "x"*10000  # Make a big string.
s = s[:100]  # Limit it to 100 characters.

But Python won't overflow any buffers even if you try to create a truly 
huge string:

s = "x"*(1024**4)  # Try to create a 1 TB string.

Your PC will run slow while Python and the OS tries to allocate 1TB of 
memory, then it will safely raise MemoryError. Pure Python should never 
dump core.



-- 
Steven


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Sun Aug  2 11:53:50 2009
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 08:53:50 -0700
Subject: Seeding the rand() Generator
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Fred Atkinson wrote:
> 	How does one seed the rand() generator when retrieving random
> recordings in MySQL?  

It is not entirely clear what you are asking.  If you are talking about
MySQL's random number generator, you are talking in the wrong newsgroup.
If you are talking about Python's, does this work?
     import random
     random.seed(123542552)
I'm not quite sure how you came to believe that Python controls MySQL,
as opposed to using its services.

--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From matt.urry at googlemail.com  Sun Aug  2 12:57:44 2009
From: matt.urry at googlemail.com (ma3mju)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 09:57:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Processes not exiting
References: <6cfb2f39-c6d6-4d2a-882c-18f21addf206@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	
	<61d7fcbb-17f8-4314-90b6-0a6db22abd6d@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <01b55c48-3252-4cec-8781-98487a9071ae@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On 2 Aug, 15:48, ma3mju  wrote:
> On 31 July, 11:34, MRAB  wrote:
>
>
>
> > ma3mju wrote:
> > > Hi all,
>
> > > I'm having trouble with multiprocessing I'm using it to speed up some
> > > simulations, I find for large queues when the process reaches the
> > > poison pill it does not exit whereas for smaller queues it works
> > > without any problems. Has anyone else had this trouble? Can anyone
> > > tell me a way around it? The code is in two files below.
>
> > [snip]
>
> > > #get number of cores and set the number on concurrent processes
> > > num_hard_workers = 2
> > > num_workers = multiprocessing.cpu_count()*1.5
> > > easy_workers = []
> > > hard_workers = []
> > > #add poison pill for each worker and create the worker
> > > for i in range(0,num_workers-num_hard_workers):
> > > ? ? easy_work_queue.put(None)
> > > ? ? easy_workers.append(multiprocessing.Process
> > > (target=GP.RandomWalkGeneralizationErrorParallel,args=
> > > (easy_work_queue,result_queue,)))
> > > for i in range(0,num_hard_workers):
> > > ? ? hard_work_queue.put(None)
> > > ? ? hard_workers.append(multiprocessing.Process
> > > (target=GP.RandomWalkGeneralizationErrorParallel,args=
> > > (hard_work_queue,result_queue,)))
>
> > You have 2 hard workers and ceil(CPU_count * 1.5) - 2 easy workers.
> > What if the number of CPUs was 1? That would give 2 hard and 0 easy!
>
> > Also, I recommend that you put only 1 'poison pill' in each queue and
> > have the workers put it back when they see it.
>
> I'll give that a go in a sec and see if it helps. The processes quit
> out for smaller queues though so it should in theory be alright. I'm
> not too fussed about the CPU's it's only there because I change
> between a uni PC and home one with a different number of cores in each
> but both greater than one.

Just tried changing the poison pill part to no avail sadly


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Aug  2 14:07:44 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 14:07:44 -0400
Subject: Generate a new object each time a name is imported
In-Reply-To: 
References: <02853264$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Peter Otten wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:

>> I'm looking for a way to hide the generation of objects from the caller,
>> so I could do something like this:
>>
>> from Module import factory() as a  # a == "Object #1"
>> from Module import factory() as b  # b == "Object #2"
>>
>> except of course that syntax is illegal.
> 
> How about

For newbies who do not get how the following works, but would like to 
know, I am adding some explanation.

>>>> class A(object):
> ...     def __init__(self):
> ...             self._n = 0
> ...     @property
> ...     def a(self):
> ...             try:
> ...                     return self._n
> ...             finally:
> ...                     self._n += 1

The @property decorator turns the 'a' function into the hidden getter 
function for what looks to the outside world like a simple instance 
attribute named 'a'.

>>>> import sys
>>>> sys.modules["yadda"] = A()

sys.modules is a system namespace that normally associates names with 
modules. It is used by import statements to find existing modules. 
However, there is no requirement that the associated object actually be 
a module. A module is simply a collection of objects accessed as 
attributes. One can get and set attributes of a module, and but hardly 
anyhing else. Other attribute collection objects will do as well as far 
as imports are concerned. 'If it quack like a duck (module in this case)...'

The above sets the 'module' to an *instance* of class A.

>>>> from yadda import a

This looks for the 'module' named 'yadda'. It finds one - the instance 
of A. It then requests attribute 'a' (of that instance). That request is 
routed to the getter function.

This import statement could be in any module, not just the one that set 
A() as a module surrogate.

>>>> from yadda import a as b
>>>> a, b
> (0, 1)

As Peter mentioned in his followup, module surrogates were intended for 
lazy imports of expensive-to-compute attributes that might never be 
needed, so their creation could be delayed to whenever needed, if ever.

Tricks like the above are not recommended for normal usage, but do 
illstrate some aspects of the language.

Terry Jan Reedy



From catalinfest at gmail.com  Sun Aug  2 14:13:13 2009
From: catalinfest at gmail.com (catafest)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 11:13:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to read webpage
References:  
	
Message-ID: <44c17767-e08e-4c8c-ae1f-0e11e54d3485@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

Maybe your python2.5 not working good!?
But, I use python 2.6 , and i use this for your problem:
import urllib
html = urllib.urlopen("http://www.rediff.com/").read()
print html

If you want use authenticate then...
You make working urllib2 and use this
>>>auth = urllib2.Request(auth_uri, authreq_data)

On Aug 1, 4:52?pm, MRAB  wrote:
> tarun wrote:
> > Dear All,
> > I want to read a webpage and copy the contents of it in word file. I
> > tried to write following code:
>
> > import urllib2
> > urllib2.urlopen("http://www.rediff.com/")
>
> > *Error:-*
>
> > ? ? urllib2.urlopen("http://www.icicibank.com/")
> > ? File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 121, in urlopen
> > ? ? return _opener.open(url, data)
> > ? File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 374, in open
> > ? ? response = self._open(req, data)
> > ? File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 392, in _open
> > ? ? '_open', req)
> > ? File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 353, in _call_chain
> > ? ? result = func(*args)
> > ? File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 1100, in http_open
> > ? ? return self.do_open(httplib.HTTPConnection, req)
> > ? File "C:\Python25\lib\urllib2.py", line 1075, in do_open
> > ? ? raise URLError(err)
> > urllib2.URLError: 
>
> I've just tried it. I didn't get an exception, so your problem must be
> elsewhere.



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sun Aug  2 14:25:36 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 19:25:36 +0100
Subject: Processes not exiting
In-Reply-To: <01b55c48-3252-4cec-8781-98487a9071ae@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <6cfb2f39-c6d6-4d2a-882c-18f21addf206@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>		<61d7fcbb-17f8-4314-90b6-0a6db22abd6d@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<01b55c48-3252-4cec-8781-98487a9071ae@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A75DA20.7050209@mrabarnett.plus.com>

ma3mju wrote:
> On 2 Aug, 15:48, ma3mju  wrote:
>> On 31 July, 11:34, MRAB  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> ma3mju wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> I'm having trouble with multiprocessing I'm using it to speed up some
>>>> simulations, I find for large queues when the process reaches the
>>>> poison pill it does not exit whereas for smaller queues it works
>>>> without any problems. Has anyone else had this trouble? Can anyone
>>>> tell me a way around it? The code is in two files below.
>>> [snip]
>>>> #get number of cores and set the number on concurrent processes
>>>> num_hard_workers = 2
>>>> num_workers = multiprocessing.cpu_count()*1.5
>>>> easy_workers = []
>>>> hard_workers = []
>>>> #add poison pill for each worker and create the worker
>>>> for i in range(0,num_workers-num_hard_workers):
>>>>     easy_work_queue.put(None)
>>>>     easy_workers.append(multiprocessing.Process
>>>> (target=GP.RandomWalkGeneralizationErrorParallel,args=
>>>> (easy_work_queue,result_queue,)))
>>>> for i in range(0,num_hard_workers):
>>>>     hard_work_queue.put(None)
>>>>     hard_workers.append(multiprocessing.Process
>>>> (target=GP.RandomWalkGeneralizationErrorParallel,args=
>>>> (hard_work_queue,result_queue,)))
>>> You have 2 hard workers and ceil(CPU_count * 1.5) - 2 easy workers.
>>> What if the number of CPUs was 1? That would give 2 hard and 0 easy!
>>> Also, I recommend that you put only 1 'poison pill' in each queue and
>>> have the workers put it back when they see it.
>> I'll give that a go in a sec and see if it helps. The processes quit
>> out for smaller queues though so it should in theory be alright. I'm
>> not too fussed about the CPU's it's only there because I change
>> between a uni PC and home one with a different number of cores in each
>> but both greater than one.
> 
> Just tried changing the poison pill part to no avail sadly

I wonder whether one of the workers is raising an exception, perhaps due
to lack of memory, when there are large number of jobs to process.

Another question: why are you distinguishing between easy and hard jobs?
Do you actually get a measurable improvement in performance from doing
it this way instead of having just a single queue of jobs and a single
pool of workers?


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Sun Aug  2 14:26:55 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 20:26:55 +0200
Subject: Get Cliet IP Address
References: 
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Fred Atkinson  (FA) wrote:

>FA> 	What is the function to obtain the client browser's IP
>FA> address?   

You mean in a web server?

The following should work (and was posted by me not long ago):

from os import getenv

ip = (getenv("HTTP_CLIENT_IP") or
      getenv("HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR") or
      getenv("HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR") or
      getenv("REMOTE_ADDR") or
      "UNKNOWN")

I use getenv() rather than environ[] to avoid exceptions.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Sun Aug  2 14:31:07 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 20:31:07 +0200
Subject: cgi script
References: 
Message-ID: 

>>>>> golu  (g) wrote:

>g> Hi,
>g> i started learning cgi few days ago in python and everything went
>g> fine  until i started getting the follwing error
>g> "
>g> The server encountered an internal error and was unable to complete
>g> your request. Either the server is overloaded or there was an error in
>g> a CGI script.

>g> If you think this is a server error, please contact the webmaster. "
>g>   i am using apache on xampp. plz help

Putting the following in your script might help as it will show the
exception trace in your browser (if it gets that far, that is).


import cgitb
cgitb.enable()

-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From REMpeteOVE at petezilla.co.uk  Sun Aug  2 15:21:06 2009
From: REMpeteOVE at petezilla.co.uk (Peter Chant)
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 20:21:06 +0100
Subject: Building / making an application
Message-ID: <2i5hk6-8gh.ln1@phoenix.fire>

What is a good way to do this?  There are instructions on making modules at:

http://docs.python.org/distutils/setupscript.html

however, what do you do if you don't want a module?  I'm thinking of where
I'd like to split the code into several files and have a build / setup
script put it together and install it somewhere such as /usr/local/bin. 
I'm interested in what the standard way of doing this is.

Thanks,

Pete



-- 
http://www.petezilla.co.uk


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Sun Aug  2 15:25:02 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 21:25:02 +0200
Subject: socket policy flash help
References: <04e26f53-5f51-476d-823e-47bfeed9b2a8@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	
	<8bede581-f260-4c69-abf0-1e8071380b76@z4g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<7e6cdc26-bcc0-4503-b7b4-9ad80b1041f6@v37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

>>>>> NighterNet  (N) wrote:

>N> Here the full code.
>N> flashpolicy.xml
>N> [[[
>N> 
>N> 
>N>    
>N> 
>N> ]]]

>N> flashpolicytest_server3x.py
>N> [[[

>N> #!/usr/local/bin/python
>N> '''
>N> Still under testing...
>N> python version 3.x.x
>N> '''
>N> import socket
>N> import threading
>N> import sys
>N> import os

>N> file_name = 'flashpolicy.xml'
>N> fh = open(file_name, "r")
>N> policy = fh.read(10001)

You never use that variable.

>N> host = ''; #out side network
>N> port = 5555;

>N> print ("#  ------------- Init... -------------  #");
>N> class ClientThread (threading.Thread):
>N> 	global policy;
>N> 	allClients = [];
>N> 	vlock = threading.Lock();
>N> 	id = 0 # next available thread number
>N> 	def __init__(self,clientSocket):
>N> 		threading.Thread.__init__(self)
>N> 		self.sockfd = clientSocket; #socket client
>N> 		self.name = '';
>N> 		ClientThread.id += 1
>N> 		self.id = ClientThread.id
>N> 		self.nickName = '';
>N> 		self.allClients.append(self.sockfd);
>N> 	def sendAll(self,buff):
>N> 		for index,clientSock in enumerate(self.allClients):
>N> 			try:
>N> 				clientSock.send(buff);

There is no guarantee that send will indeed transmit all of buff. It is
better to use clientSock.sendall(buff). Or you should check the return
value of send and check if it is equal to the length of buff. And repeat
if not. (But sendall is easier). 

Also don't use ; at the end of the statement. It's not pythonic.

>N> 			except (socket.error):
>N> 				print ('error socket %s\n',index,"| clean");
>N> 				clientSock.close()
>N> 				del self.allClients[index]
>N> 	def run(self):
>N> 		while True:
>N> 			buff = self.sockfd.recv(1028);

There is no guarantee that recv will get the whole message. It may even
get as little as 1 byte. So you should check the return value of recv.
The official way is to keep reading until you have enough input or until
you hit end of file.

>N> 			if not buff:
>N> 				print ("connect close...(client side)");
>N> 				self.sockfd.close();
>N> 				break #incase it loop infinite
>N> 			if str(buff) == str("b\'\\x00\'"):

What you check here is whether buff contains the byte sequence that starts with a
b, then a ' ... and ending with the 5 bytes \ x 0 0 ' which is wrong.

Actually it should be:

if buff == b\'\x00':
or
if buff == b\'\0':


>N> 				print ('policy FOUND >>> sending...')
>N> 				print(buff)
>N> 				b = b'N> from domain=\"*\" to-ports=\"*\" />'
>N> 				print (b)
>N> 				self.sockfd.send(b);
>N> 				self.sockfd.sendall(b);

Only self.sockfd.sendall; delete the line with self.sockfd.send(b). And
remove the semicolons for esthetical reasons.

>N> Some odd reason I can't send flash policy from python to flash socket
>N> to agrees with the connection.

-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From hackingkk at gmail.com  Sun Aug  2 15:32:10 2009
From: hackingkk at gmail.com (Krishnakant)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 01:02:10 +0530
Subject: Building / making an application
In-Reply-To: <2i5hk6-8gh.ln1@phoenix.fire>
References: <2i5hk6-8gh.ln1@phoenix.fire>
Message-ID: <1249241530.4541.12.camel@krishna-laptop>

On Sun, 2009-08-02 at 20:21 +0100, Peter Chant wrote:
> What is a good way to do this?  There are instructions on making modules at:
> 
> http://docs.python.org/distutils/setupscript.html
> 
> however, what do you do if you don't want a module?  I'm thinking of where
> I'd like to split the code into several files and have a build / setup
> script put it together and install it somewhere such as /usr/local/bin. 
> I'm interested in what the standard way of doing this is.
> 
Have you considered creating a deb or rpm package for your application?
Most of the documentation for deb or rpm will talk about make files.
But even a distutil based python package (with a setup.py) can be made
into a deb package.
Then the your requirement will be satisfied at least for most gnu/linux
based distros.

happy hacking.
Krishnakant.





From REMpeteOVE at petezilla.co.uk  Sun Aug  2 16:00:15 2009
From: REMpeteOVE at petezilla.co.uk (Peter Chant)
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 21:00:15 +0100
Subject: Building / making an application
References: <2i5hk6-8gh.ln1@phoenix.fire>
	
Message-ID: 

Krishnakant wrote:


> Have you considered creating a deb or rpm package for your application?
> Most of the documentation for deb or rpm will talk about make files.
> But even a distutil based python package (with a setup.py) can be made
> into a deb package.
> Then the your requirement will be satisfied at least for most gnu/linux
> based distros.

I'm a slacker, so what I would do would be to make a slack build, the
slackbuild would take the source and build that.  The stage I am at is
the "how to build the source" stage.  Don't really intend to get as far as
distribution specific packages.

What I could do is create a script in the source root directory (that sounds
a bit overblown) that simply concatenates together all the python files in
the right order and perhaps copies the result to /usr/local/bin or /usr/bin
as appropriate.  Is that the right way to go?  It looks like distutils is
appropriate only for modules.  

OTOH it might be appropriate to put the bulk of an application in a module
and have a function calling it the only part of the main script.

Pete

-- 
http://www.petezilla.co.uk


From deets at nospam.web.de  Sun Aug  2 16:08:00 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 22:08:00 +0200
Subject: Building / making an application
In-Reply-To: 
References: <2i5hk6-8gh.ln1@phoenix.fire>
	
	
Message-ID: <7dma10F2cd7tnU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Peter Chant schrieb:
> Krishnakant wrote:
> 
> 
>> Have you considered creating a deb or rpm package for your application?
>> Most of the documentation for deb or rpm will talk about make files.
>> But even a distutil based python package (with a setup.py) can be made
>> into a deb package.
>> Then the your requirement will be satisfied at least for most gnu/linux
>> based distros.
> 
> I'm a slacker, so what I would do would be to make a slack build, the
> slackbuild would take the source and build that.  The stage I am at is
> the "how to build the source" stage.  Don't really intend to get as far as
> distribution specific packages.
> 
> What I could do is create a script in the source root directory (that sounds
> a bit overblown) that simply concatenates together all the python files in
> the right order and perhaps copies the result to /usr/local/bin or /usr/bin
> as appropriate.  Is that the right way to go?  It looks like distutils is
> appropriate only for modules.  
> 
> OTOH it might be appropriate to put the bulk of an application in a module
> and have a function calling it the only part of the main script.

You should consider using setuptools. Then you get an egg that people 
can install, and you can define "console_scripts"-entry-points which 
will be installed into /usr/local/bin or similar locations.

Diez


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Aug  2 16:15:00 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 2 Aug 2009 13:15:00 -0700
Subject: Help with Regex for domain names
References: 
	<0422bf8f-ce59-4de2-a1a4-b16a32e5f152@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
MRAB   wrote:
>Nobody wrote:
>> On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 10:29:09 -0700, rurpy wrote:
>> 
>>>> regex = re.compile(r'[\w\-\.]+\.(?:us|au|de)')
>>> You might also want to consider that some country
>>> codes such as "co" for Columbia might match more than
>>> you want, for example:
>>>
>>>   re.match(r'[\w\-\.]+\.(?:us|au|de|co)', 'foo.boo.com')
>>>
>>> will match.
>> 
>> ... so put \b at the end, i.e.:
>> 
>> regex = re.compile(r'[\w\-\.]+\.(?:us|au|de)\b')
>> 
>It would still match "www.bbc.co.uk", so you might need:
>
>regex = re.compile(r'[\w\-\.]+\.(?:us|au|de)\b(?!\.\b)')

If it's a string containing just the candidate domain, you can do

regex = re.compile(r'[\w\-\.]+\.(?:us|au|de)$')
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Many customs in this life persist because they ease friction and promote
productivity as a result of universal agreement, and whether they are
precisely the optimal choices is much less important." --Henry Spencer


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Sun Aug  2 16:49:05 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 22:49:05 +0200
Subject: Processes not exiting
References: <6cfb2f39-c6d6-4d2a-882c-18f21addf206@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	
	<61d7fcbb-17f8-4314-90b6-0a6db22abd6d@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<01b55c48-3252-4cec-8781-98487a9071ae@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

>>>>> MRAB  (M) wrote:

>M> I wonder whether one of the workers is raising an exception, perhaps due
>M> to lack of memory, when there are large number of jobs to process.

But that wouldn't prevent the join. And you would probably get an
exception traceback printed.

I wonder if something fishy is happening in the multiprocessing
infrastructure. Or maybe the Fortran code goes wrong because it has no
protection against buffer overruns and similar problems, I think.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From fatkinson at mishmash.com  Sun Aug  2 17:18:28 2009
From: fatkinson at mishmash.com (Fred Atkinson)
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 14:18:28 -0700
Subject: Seeding the rand() Generator
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 08:53:50 -0700, Scott David Daniels
 wrote:

>Fred Atkinson wrote:
>> 	How does one seed the rand() generator when retrieving random
>> recordings in MySQL?  
>
>It is not entirely clear what you are asking.  If you are talking about
>MySQL's random number generator, you are talking in the wrong newsgroup.
>If you are talking about Python's, does this work?
>     import random
>     random.seed(123542552)
>I'm not quite sure how you came to believe that Python controls MySQL,
>as opposed to using its services.
>
>--Scott David Daniels
>Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org

	I am coding in Python.  

	I am accessing a MySQL database.  

	I have a string to instruct the MySQL database to use the
'rand()' function to randomly choose one of the records in the
database.  

	I know how to seed it in PHP.  Does anyone know how to see it
from with Python?  

	Regards, 




						Fred 


From fatkinson at mishmash.com  Sun Aug  2 17:20:02 2009
From: fatkinson at mishmash.com (Fred Atkinson)
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 14:20:02 -0700
Subject: Predefined Variables
References: 
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 08:11:22 -0700, Scott David Daniels
 wrote:

>Piet van Oostrum wrote:
>>>>>>> Scott David Daniels  (SDD) wrote:
>>> SDD> Stephen Cuppett (should have written in this order):
>>>>> "Fred Atkinson"  wrote ...
>>>>>> Is there a pre-defined variable that returns the GET line...
>>>>> os.environment('QUERY_STRING')
>>> SDD> Maybe you mean:
>>> SDD>     os.environ['USER']
>> Let's take the best of both:
>> os.environ['QUERY_STRING']
>
>Sorry about that.  I was testing expression before posting, and I don't
>do that much cgi stuff.  I forgot to restore the variable name.
>
>--Scott David Daniels
>Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org

	I finally got it to work with x =getenv('QUERY_STRING')

	Regards, 



						Fred 


From victorsubervi at gmail.com  Sun Aug  2 17:22:20 2009
From: victorsubervi at gmail.com (Victor Subervi)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 16:22:20 -0500
Subject: RE Question
Message-ID: <4dc0cfea0908021422x43972682ra58c53a2a43351ee@mail.gmail.com>

Hi;
How do I search and replace something like this:
aLine = re.sub('[<]?[p]?[>]?[<]?[b]?[>]?', '', aLine)
where RE *only* looks for the possibility of "
" at the beginning of the
string; that is, not the individual components as I have it coded above, but
the entire 3-character block?
TIA,
Victor
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From marcusw at cox.net  Sun Aug  2 17:51:11 2009
From: marcusw at cox.net (Marcus Wanner)
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 17:51:11 -0400
Subject: Is python buffer overflow proof?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	
	
Message-ID: 

On 8/2/2009 10:43 AM, Christian Heimes wrote:
> Marcus Wanner wrote:
>> I believe that python is buffer overflow proof. In fact, I think that 
>> even ctypes is overflow proof...
> 
> No, ctypes isn't buffer overflow proof. ctypes can break and crash a 
> Python interpreter easily.
> 
> Christian
> 
I see. I thought that it said "invalid array index" when you try to 
read/write outside of an array's bounds, though...

Marcus


From REMpeteOVE at petezilla.co.uk  Sun Aug  2 18:26:08 2009
From: REMpeteOVE at petezilla.co.uk (Peter Chant)
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 23:26:08 +0100
Subject: Building / making an application
References: <2i5hk6-8gh.ln1@phoenix.fire>
	
	 <7dma10F2cd7tnU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <0dghk6-12j.ln1@phoenix.fire>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:


> You should consider using setuptools. Then you get an egg that people
> can install, and you can define "console_scripts"-entry-points which
> will be installed into /usr/local/bin or similar locations.

Interesting, I think I need to have a play with that.  The cross platform
bit could be useful as well.

Pete

-- 
http://www.petezilla.co.uk


From missive at hotmail.com  Sun Aug  2 18:27:49 2009
From: missive at hotmail.com (Lee Harr)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 02:57:49 +0430
Subject: [ANNC] pybotwar-0.3
Message-ID: 


pybotwar is a fun and educational game where players
create computer programs to control simulated robots
to compete in a battle arena.

http://pybotwar.googlecode.com/


pybotwar uses pybox2d for the physical simulation,
and uses pygame and pygsear for the visualization.

pybotwar is released under GPLv3.


Changes in pybotwar-0.3:
    - make tarball extract in to versioned directory


_________________________________________________________________
With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos.
http://www.microsoft.com/middleeast/windows/windowslive/products/photo-gallery-edit.aspx


From suruti94 at gmail.com  Sun Aug  2 19:22:45 2009
From: suruti94 at gmail.com (Mohan Parthasarathy)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 16:22:45 -0700
Subject: Python docs disappointing
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <89dd3da60908021622k9967c90raa98afff1881bcc4@mail.gmail.com>

I am a newbie and about a month old with Python. There is a wealth of
material about Python and I am really enjoying learning Python.

One thing that could have helped Python documentation is that instead of the
very "raw" doc string, it could have used something like PythonDoc (java doc
style) so that the functions/classes are documented better. At least I am
planning to use PythonDoc for the code that I am going to write. Let me know
if there is a better one..

-mohan

On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 1:10 PM, kj  wrote:

>
>
>
> I'm pretty new to Python, and I like a lot overall, but I find the
> documentation for Python rather poor, overall.
>
> I'm sure that Python experts don't have this problem: they have
> internalized some good ways to access the documentation, are
> productive with it, and therefore have lost the ability to see why
> the Python documentations is deficient for beginners.  This explains
> why a suboptimal situation can persist like this: those who are
> most able fix it are also the least able to perceive it.
>
> I've heard similar complaints from other experienced programmers
> who are trying out Python for the first time: poor documentation.
>
> Here is an *entirely typical* example: on some Unix, try
>
> % pydoc urllib
>
> The displayed documentation mention the optional parameter "data"
> in practically every function listed (a few dozen of them).  This
> parameter is not documented *anywhere* on that page.  All that we
> are told is that its default value is always None.
>
> I'm sure that I can find a full description of this parameter if
> I fire up Google, and search online.  In fact, more likely than
> not, I'll find far more documentation than I want.  But my point
> is that a programmer should not need to do this.  The full
> documentation should be readily accessible directly through a few
> keystrokes.
>
> I would love to know how experienced Python programmers quickly
> zero in on the Python documentation they need.
>
> TIA!
>
> kynn
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sun Aug  2 19:40:20 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 16:40:20 -0700
Subject: Python docs disappointing
In-Reply-To: <89dd3da60908021622k9967c90raa98afff1881bcc4@mail.gmail.com>
References: 
	<89dd3da60908021622k9967c90raa98afff1881bcc4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908021640o38f1de9fnd778da4d985c4672@mail.gmail.com>

> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 1:10 PM, kj  wrote:
>> I'm pretty new to Python, and I like a lot overall, but I find the
>> documentation for Python rather poor, overall.
>>
>> I'm sure that Python experts don't have this problem: they have
>> internalized some good ways to access the documentation, are
>> productive with it, and therefore have lost the ability to see why
>> the Python documentations is deficient for beginners. ?This explains
>> why a suboptimal situation can persist like this: those who are
>> most able fix it are also the least able to perceive it.
>>
>> I've heard similar complaints from other experienced programmers
>> who are trying out Python for the first time: poor documentation.
>>
>> Here is an *entirely typical* example: on some Unix, try
>>
>> % pydoc urllib
>>
>> The displayed documentation mention the optional parameter "data"
>> in practically every function listed (a few dozen of them). ?This
>> parameter is not documented *anywhere* on that page. ?All that we
>> are told is that its default value is always None.
>>
>> I'm sure that I can find a full description of this parameter if
>> I fire up Google, and search online. ?In fact, more likely than
>> not, I'll find far more documentation than I want. ?But my point
>> is that a programmer should not need to do this. ?The full
>> documentation should be readily accessible directly through a few
>> keystrokes.
>>
>> I would love to know how experienced Python programmers quickly
>> zero in on the Python documentation they need.
On Sun, Aug 2, 2009 at 4:22 PM, Mohan Parthasarathy wrote:
> I am a newbie and about a month old with Python. There is a wealth of
> material about Python and I am really enjoying learning Python.
>
> One thing that could have helped Python documentation is that instead of the
> very "raw" doc string, it could have used something like PythonDoc (java doc
> style) so that the functions/classes are documented better. At least I am
> planning to use PythonDoc for the code that I am going to write. Let me know
> if there is a better one..

If you use reStructuredText (http://docutils.sf.net/rst.html), you can
leverage Sphinx (http://sphinx.pocoo.org/), which generates the
superb-looking official Python docs.

Cheers,
Chris

P.S. Please don't top-post (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top-post) in
the future.
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sun Aug  2 20:00:40 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 17:00:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Seeding the rand() Generator
References: 
	 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 2, 2:18?pm, Fred Atkinson  wrote:
> On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 08:53:50 -0700, Scott David Daniels
>
>  wrote:
> >Fred Atkinson wrote:
> >> ? ? ? ?How does one seed the rand() generator when retrieving random
> >> recordings in MySQL? ?
>
> >It is not entirely clear what you are asking. ?If you are talking about
> >MySQL's random number generator, you are talking in the wrong newsgroup.
> >If you are talking about Python's, does this work?
> > ? ? import random
> > ? ? random.seed(123542552)
> >I'm not quite sure how you came to believe that Python controls MySQL,
> >as opposed to using its services.
>
> >--Scott David Daniels
> >Scott.Dani... at Acm.Org
>
> ? ? ? ? I am coding in Python. ?
>
> ? ? ? ? I am accessing a MySQL database. ?
>
> ? ? ? ? I have a string to instruct the MySQL database to use the
> 'rand()' function to randomly choose one of the records in the
> database. ?
>
> ? ? ? ? I know how to seed it in PHP. ?Does anyone know how to see it
> from with Python? ?

It sounds like you are using MySQL's rand() function, which means that
whatever SQL command you used to seed it in PHP is the same command
you would use to seed it in Python.

You'll have to give us more information if you want a better answer
than that.


Carl Banks


From lists at cheimes.de  Sun Aug  2 20:39:34 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 02:39:34 +0200
Subject: Python docs disappointing
In-Reply-To: <89dd3da60908021622k9967c90raa98afff1881bcc4@mail.gmail.com>
References: 
	<89dd3da60908021622k9967c90raa98afff1881bcc4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

Mohan Parthasarathy schrieb:
> I am a newbie and about a month old with Python. There is a wealth of
> material about Python and I am really enjoying learning Python.
> 
> One thing that could have helped Python documentation is that instead of the
> very "raw" doc string, it could have used something like PythonDoc (java doc
> style) so that the functions/classes are documented better. At least I am
> planning to use PythonDoc for the code that I am going to write. Let me know
> if there is a better one..

Several projects are trying to improve the doc strings with an extended 
syntax. Personally I prefer the epytext syntax from epydoc [1]. It's a 
JavaDoc like markup language that extends the raw doc strings with 
useful information.

Christian

[1] http://epydoc.sourceforge.net/manual-epytext.html



From r1chardj0n3s at gmail.com  Sun Aug  2 21:07:55 2009
From: r1chardj0n3s at gmail.com (Richard Jones)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 11:07:55 +1000
Subject: Registation is open for the 9th PyWeek game programming challenge!
Message-ID: <3A356906-89BE-47A4-9ECE-4C87A7EA89BE@gmail.com>

The ninth PyWeek challenge will run between:

  Sunday 30th August to Sunday 6th September (00:00UTC to 00:00UTC)

The PyWeek challenge invites entrants to write a game in one week from
scratch either as an individual or in a team. Entries must be developed
in Python, during the challenge, and must incorporate some theme chosen
at the start of the challenge.


REGISTRATION IS NOW OPEN --

Visit the challenge website to sign up, join discussions in the  
message board or read the timetable and rules:

   http://www.pyweek.org/9/


PLANNING FOR THE CHALLENGE --

Make sure you have working versions of the libraries you're going to  
use.
The rules page has a list of libraries and other resources.

Make sure you can build packages to submit as your final submission (if
you're going to use py2exe, make sure you know how to use it and that it
works).

If you don't have access to Linux, Windows or a Mac to test on, contact
friends, family or other competitors to find someone who is able to test
for you.


From milesck at umich.edu  Sun Aug  2 21:15:10 2009
From: milesck at umich.edu (Miles Kaufmann)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 18:15:10 -0700
Subject: Skipping a superclass
In-Reply-To: <02857910$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <02857910$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <3597BCD2-E6D1-4A76-85A2-6C1CA3D8B40B@umich.edu>

On Aug 2, 2009, at 5:36 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> I have a series of subclasses like this:
>
> class A(object):
>    def method(self, *args):
>        print "Lots of work gets done here in the base class"
>
> class B(A):
>    def method(self, *args):
>        print "A little bit of work gets done in B"
>        super(B, self).method(*args)
>
> class C(B):
>    def method(self, *args):
>        print "A little bit of work gets done in C"
>        super(C, self).method(*args)
>
>
> However, the work done in C.method() makes the work done in B.method()
> obsolete: I want one to run, or the other, but not both. C does need  
> to
> inherit from B, for the sake of the other methods, so I want  
> C.method()
> *only* to skip B while still inheriting from A. (All other methods  
> have
> to inherit from B as normal.)

This might not be applicable to the larger problem you're trying to  
solve, but for this sample, I would write it as:

class A(object):
     def method(self, *args):
         self._method(*args)
         print "Lots of work gets done here in the base class"
     def _method(self, *args):
         pass # or perhaps raise NotImplemented

class B(A):
     def _method(self, *args):
         print "A little bit of work gets done in B"

class C(B):
     def _method(self, *args):
         print "A little bit of work gets done in C"

> So what I have done is change the call to super in C to super(B, self)
> instead of super(C, self). It seems to work, but is this safe to do?  
> Or
> are there strange side-effects I haven't seen yet?

In a diamond-inheritance situation, you may end up skipping methods  
besides just B.method().

-Miles



From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Sun Aug  2 21:23:39 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 18:23:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Generate a new object each time a name is imported
References: <02853264$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	 
	
Message-ID: <182b3193-d249-4887-ad23-b9c5a3b6dcd8@y4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 3, 4:07?am, Terry Reedy  wrote:
> Peter Otten wrote:
> > Steven D'Aprano wrote:
[...]

Fantastic question, answer & explanation, guys. Well done.


From torriem at gmail.com  Sun Aug  2 21:36:08 2009
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 19:36:08 -0600
Subject: Queryable Daemon
In-Reply-To: <81F5E933-9140-4269-AA13-FDB34CB9E895@gmail.com>
References: <81F5E933-9140-4269-AA13-FDB34CB9E895@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A763F08.3000504@gmail.com>

Justin DeCell wrote:
> I was hoping for a little help with a project I'm working on. I'm  
> writing a daemon in python that I want to be queryable  (i.e. I should  
> be able to run foo -s and it will report some internal information  
> about the foo daemon if it's running) but I can't figure out a way get  
> information from that process from an external process. I was thinking  
> that there should be a way to open a file descriptor, have the daemon  
> write to that every so often and then have the query process just read  
> from that fd but it looks like on the process reading from an fd has  
> to be a child of the daemon for this to work. The only other way I  
> thought of would be to write to a file on disk every so often from the  
> daemon and just read the from the query process but it seems like  
> there should be a more elegant way to do this...

Most daemon programs I know of that do this use unix sockets.  The
socket is typically put in /tmp, or probably better in /var/run, or some
other appropriate place.  Often this is configurable in a config file
that both the daemon and the program or instance that checks the daemon
read.

Another possibility is shared memory segments.  I'm not sure how
security is done in this case.  Anyway, shared memory is a common IPC
mechanism.


From steve at nospam.au  Sun Aug  2 22:27:22 2009
From: steve at nospam.au (steve)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 12:27:22 +1000
Subject: Test for Pythonwin?
References: <4a728aac$0$9744$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <4a764b0a$0$22840$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>


"steve"  wrote in message 
news:4a728aac$0$9744$5a62ac22 at per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
> Is there a good way to check if a script is running inside Pythonwin?
> Perhaps a property or method that is exposed by that environment?
>
> or, alternatively, is there a better place to ask :-)
>
> Steven
>


> 'pywin' in sys.modules

Didn't want to check for redirection because my redirection code is in
a different thread, and I'd have to think about thread synchronization as
well.

Thanks guys,
Steven 




From icebergwtf at gmail.com  Sun Aug  2 22:33:53 2009
From: icebergwtf at gmail.com (tiefeng wu)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 10:33:53 +0800
Subject: RE Question
In-Reply-To: <4dc0cfea0908021422x43972682ra58c53a2a43351ee@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4dc0cfea0908021422x43972682ra58c53a2a43351ee@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4314c1f70908021933o68857e6fia8a99f039ea9f1d9@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/3 Victor Subervi :
-> Hi;
-> How do I search and replace something like this:
> aLine = re.sub('[<]?[p]?[>]? a-zA-Z0-9"\'=:]*>[<]?[b]?[>]?', '', aLine)
> where RE *only* looks for the possibility of "
" at the beginning of the
> string; that is, not the individual components as I have it coded above, but
> the entire 3-character block?
> TIA,
> Victor

I'm not sure I totally understand your problem, try this:
aLine = re.sub(r'(?:
)?]*>(?:)'.format(str(x)), '', aLine)

tiefeng wu
2009-08-03


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Aug  2 22:52:14 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 2 Aug 2009 19:52:14 -0700
Subject: Printing with colors in a portable way
References: <33e19169-19b4-497a-b262-2bcf7b5637d5@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

In article <33e19169-19b4-497a-b262-2bcf7b5637d5 at r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
Robert Dailey   wrote:
>
>Anyone know of a way to print text in Python 3.1 with colors in a
>portable way? In other words, I should be able to do something like
>this:
>
>print_color( "This is my text", COLOR_BLUE )
>
>And this should be portable (i.e. it should work on Linux, Mac,
>Windows).

Much as I hate to say, use a cross-platform GUI -- Tkinter comes with
Python, and you can also use SDL via PyGame, wxWindows, pyQT, PyOpenGL,
and so on.  If that's not an option, you should have said "command-line
program".  ;-)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"...string iteration isn't about treating strings as sequences of strings, 
it's about treating strings as sequences of characters.  The fact that
characters are also strings is the reason we have problems, but characters 
are strings for other good reasons."  --Aahz


From joshua at azariah.com  Sun Aug  2 23:18:43 2009
From: joshua at azariah.com (Joshua J. Kugler)
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 19:18:43 -0800
Subject: ANNOUNCE: AwstatsReader 0.01
Message-ID: <200908021918.44365.joshua@azariah.com>

ABOUT THE MODULE
================
AwstatsReader is an attempt at a pythonic interface to AWStats data 
cache
files. ?Using it, you can access year, month, and individual data points
via dictionary-like accessors.

Download here: http://azariah.com/open_source.html

ABOUT THE AUTHOR
================
Joshua Kugler (joshua at azariah.com) is a programmer and system 
administrator
with over 10 years of industry experience. ?He is currently looking for 
a
job. ?Happen to have one you could offer him? :)
Resume at: http://jjncj.com/papers/KuglerAll.pdf

DISCLAIMER
==========
This is a "release early, release often" release, codnamed Joshua-hopes-
somebody-downloads-this-and-likes-code-quality-and-hires-him.

This is an early release...probably pre-alpha. ?There are no tests yet
(haven't
generated cache files I can release publically), not much documentation,
and the interface may change (but I hope not too much).

And I haven't even put this in a public repository, as the name might 
(but
probably won't) change.

I wrote this via examples from an AWStats cache file, so I'm sure there 
are
sections for which I do not have definitions. ?If you would send me 
those
sections, I'll be sure to add them.

The error handling is probably a little light. ?Certainly could be 
improved.

Right now, this will parse and display cache files from AWStats 6.5. 
I've
not
tested other versions yet, as 6.5 is the only version I've had access to 
so
far.


INSTALLATION
============
See INSTALL

LICENSE
=======
See COPYING

EXAMPLE
=======
import AwstatsReader

obj ?= 
AwstatsReader.AwstatsReader('/path/to/awstats_logs', 'example.com')

print obj[2007]
print obj[2008][6]
m = obj[2009][7]
print m['general']
# Access like a dictionary...
print m['general']['LastLine']
#...or like an object attribute
print m['general'].LastLine
print m.general.LastLine

FEEDBACK
========
Please send questions/comments/suggestions to awstatsreader at azariah.com
For now, you can find the latest version here:
http://azariah.com/open_source.html


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Mon Aug  3 00:13:17 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 01:13:17 -0300
Subject: RE Question
References: <4dc0cfea0908021422x43972682ra58c53a2a43351ee@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

En Sun, 02 Aug 2009 18:22:20 -0300, Victor Subervi  
 escribi?:

> How do I search and replace something like this:
> aLine = re.sub('[<]?[p]?[>]? a-zA-Z0-9"\'=:]*>[<]?[b]?[>]?', '', aLine)
> where RE *only* looks for the possibility of "
" at the beginning of  
> the
> string; that is, not the individual components as I have it coded above,  
> but
> the entire 3-character block?

An example would make it more clear; I think you want to match either  
"
" is  
optional. Use a normal group or a non-capturing group:
r'(
)?
	
Message-ID: <19e16923-b200-498b-9ab2-f7d316b568a6@d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 2, 9:52?pm, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
[snip]
> Much as I hate to say, use a cross-platform GUI -- Tkinter comes with
> Python,
[snip]

Why is Tkinter such a whipping boy of the Python community? I know
it's very simple and does not have all the bells and whistles of wx,
but i think the gentle learning curve is very important for those
struggling to learn GUI's. Even today I always use Tkinter first, and
then only reach for wx when absolutely necessary. Seems to me the
relativity small footprint(GUI wise) compared to the payoffs are worth
the inclusion. I think if Tkinter where ever removed from Python it
would be not only a disservice to the language but also a detriment to
the *new* users of the language.

Just my humble opinion


From anthra.norell at bluewin.ch  Mon Aug  3 03:40:00 2009
From: anthra.norell at bluewin.ch (Anthra Norell)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 09:40:00 +0200
Subject: Compiling regex inside function?
Message-ID: <4A769450.5080702@bluewin.ch>

Hi all,

   I have a regex that has no use outside of a particular function. From 
an encapsulation point of view it should be scoped as restrictively as 
possible. Defining it inside the function certainly works, but if 
re.compile () is run every time the function is called, it isn't such a 
good idea after all. E.g.

def entries (l):
        r = re.compile ('([0-9]+) entr(y|ies)')
        match = r.search (l)
        if match: return match.group (1)

So the question is: does "r" get regex-compiled once at py-compile time 
or repeatedly at entries() run time?


Frederic



From greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz  Mon Aug  3 03:40:41 2009
From: greg.ewing at canterbury.ac.nz (Greg Ewing)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 19:40:41 +1200
Subject: Registation is open for the 9th PyWeek game programming challenge!
In-Reply-To: <3A356906-89BE-47A4-9ECE-4C87A7EA89BE@gmail.com>
References: <3A356906-89BE-47A4-9ECE-4C87A7EA89BE@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A769479.9080707@canterbury.ac.nz>

Richard Jones wrote:
> The ninth PyWeek challenge will run between:
> 
>   Sunday 30th August to Sunday 6th September (00:00UTC to 00:00UTC)

Yow, hard on the heels of Pyggy! I'd hoped there might
be a bit more breathing room, sorry about that! Hope
the Pyggy entrants aren't feeling too burned out to
participate.

-- 
Greg


From deets at nospam.web.de  Mon Aug  3 03:45:32 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 09:45:32 +0200
Subject: Is python buffer overflow proof?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	
	
	
Message-ID: <7dnissF2bthr0U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Marcus Wanner schrieb:
> On 8/2/2009 10:43 AM, Christian Heimes wrote:
>> Marcus Wanner wrote:
>>> I believe that python is buffer overflow proof. In fact, I think that 
>>> even ctypes is overflow proof...
>>
>> No, ctypes isn't buffer overflow proof. ctypes can break and crash a 
>> Python interpreter easily.
>>
>> Christian
>>
> I see. I thought that it said "invalid array index" when you try to 
> read/write outside of an array's bounds, though...


But you can cast the resulting pointer to an array of larger size, and 
there you are.

Diez


From davea at ieee.org  Mon Aug  3 04:04:04 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 04:04:04 -0400
Subject: Run pyc file without specifying python path ?
In-Reply-To: <7F0503CD69378F49BE0DC30661C6CCF67D49D318@enbmail01.lsi.com>
References: 	<7F0503CD69378F49BE0DC30661C6CCF6701A26C4@enbmail01.lsi.com>	<4A708F68.1010505@ieee.org>
	<7F0503CD69378F49BE0DC30661C6CCF6701A26C7@enbmail01.lsi.com>
	<4A7199FF.8010202@dejaviewphoto.com>
	<7F0503CD69378F49BE0DC30661C6CCF6701A26D2@enbmail01.lsi.com>
	<4A71D35F.3090800@dejaviewphoto.com>
	<7F0503CD69378F49BE0DC30661C6CCF67D49D30E@enbmail01.lsi.com>
	<4A755DE6.1000906@ieee.org>
	<7F0503CD69378F49BE0DC30661C6CCF67D49D318@enbmail01.lsi.com>
Message-ID: <4A7699F4.1050400@ieee.org>

Barak, Ron wrote:
>   
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Dave Angel [mailto:davea at ieee.org]
>> Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 12:36
>> To: Barak, Ron
>> Cc: 'python-list at python.org'
>> Subject: Re: Run pyc file without specifying python path ?
>>
>> Barak, Ron wrote:
>>     
>>> Hi Dave,
>>>
>>> It seems like I don't understand your solution.
>>> I use the (attached) soapAPI.py as the wrapper to parsing.pyc.
>>> However, if I do (for instance):
>>>
>>> $ python -u parsing.pyc -U aaa
>>>
>>> The last line of the output is (as expected):
>>>
>>> return_code: 12 ; params: {'username': 'aaa'}
>>>
>>> But, if I try the following:
>>>
>>> $ soapAPI.py -U aaa
>>>
>>> I don't get this line. Only the output to stderr gets
>>>       
>> printed to the screen.
>>     
>>> Bye,
>>> Ron.
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>> Hi Ron,
>>
>> To make it easier for anybody following this thread, let me
>> post the minimum equivalent source files, inline.
>>
>> parsing.py:
>> ------------------------------
>> #!/usr/bin/env python
>>
>> import sys
>>
>> def main():
>>     print >> sys.stderr, "This is stderr output"
>>     return  5, sys.argv
>>
>> if __name__ == "__main__":
>>     return_code, params = main()
>>     print "return_code:",return_code,"; params:",params
>>     sys.exit(return_code)
>> -------------------------------
>> soapapi.py:
>> -------------------------------
>> #!/usr/bin/env python
>>
>> import sys
>> import parsing
>>
>> parsing.main()
>> ------------------------------
>>
>>
>> When I run soapapi.;py, it indeed prints only the stderr output.
>>
>> The solution is to move (most or all) of the top-level code
>> of parsing.py into a main() function.  Since you already have
>> a main(), I'll rename that, and make a new one that calls it.
>>
>> new   parsing.py:
>> -------------------------------
>> #!/usr/bin/env python
>>
>> import sys
>>
>> def innermain():
>>     print >> sys.stderr, "This is stderr output"
>>     return  5, sys.argv
>>
>> def main():
>>     return_code, params = innermain()
>>     print "return_code:",return_code,"; params:",params
>>     sys.exit(return_code)
>>
>> if __name__ == "__main__":
>>     main()
>> -------------------------------
>>
>> The output is now two lines, one from innermain(), and one
>> from main().
>> And it's the same whether the user runs  parsing.py  or   soapAPI.py
>>
>> To clarify what happened, realize that when the user invokes
>> parsing.py, the module is considered a script, and gets a
>> pseudo-name of
>> "__main__"    When that same module is imported by another one, it is
>> considered a library module, and gets its own name "parsing"
>>
>> So any logic that explicitly checks for "__main__" has to
>> change, because we want identical behavior in the two cases.
>>
>> DaveA
>>
>>
>>     
>
> Hi Dave,
>
> Trying your above scripts, I get other results than you do. E.g.:
>
> $ python parsing.py --help
> return_code: 5 ; params: ['parsing.py', '--help']
> This is stderr output
>
> $ python soapapi.py --help
> This is stderr output
>
> $
>
> So, in my environment (cygwin on win xp, python Python 2.5.2) I'm getting different results than you get, namely -  soapapi.py on my environment does not show the stdout output.
> On which environment did you get identical results from your parsing.py and soapapi.py ?
>
> Bye,
> Ron.
>
> $ cat parsing.py
> #!/usr/bin/env python
>
> import sys
>
> def main():
>     print >> sys.stderr, "This is stderr output"
>     return  5, sys.argv
>
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>     return_code, params = main()
>     print "return_code:",return_code,"; params:",params
>     sys.exit(return_code)
>
> $ cat soapapi.py
> #!/usr/bin/env python
>
> import sys
> import parsing
>
> parsing.main()
>
>
>
>   
Please read my message again, especially starting with the words "the 
solution is."  I showed two versions of parsing.py, and you're still 
using the broken version.  I posted both versions, with descriptions of 
what I changed and why, so that you could see why the change was important.

I'm using   sys.version == 2.6.2 (r262:71600, Apr 21 2009, 15:05:37) 
[MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)]         Running on XP  Sp3.   And 2.5 will 
give identical results, though I don't have it installed any more.

DaveA



From matt.urry at googlemail.com  Mon Aug  3 04:36:41 2009
From: matt.urry at googlemail.com (ma3mju)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 01:36:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Processes not exiting
References: <6cfb2f39-c6d6-4d2a-882c-18f21addf206@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	
	<61d7fcbb-17f8-4314-90b6-0a6db22abd6d@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<01b55c48-3252-4cec-8781-98487a9071ae@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> 
	
	
Message-ID: <996e50f5-c126-4ac2-ae8d-458d22a26ee1@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On 2 Aug, 21:49, Piet van Oostrum  wrote:
> >>>>> MRAB  (M) wrote:
> >M> I wonder whether one of the workers is raising an exception, perhaps due
> >M> to lack of memory, when there are large number of jobs to process.
>
> But that wouldn't prevent the join. And you would probably get an
> exception traceback printed.
>
> I wonder if something fishy is happening in the multiprocessing
> infrastructure. Or maybe the Fortran code goes wrong because it has no
> protection against buffer overruns and similar problems, I think.
> --
> Piet van Oostrum 
> URL:http://pietvanoostrum.com[PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
> Private email: p... at vanoostrum.org

I don't think it's a memory problem, the reason for the hard and easy
queue is because for larger examples it uses far more RAM. If I run
all of workers with harder problems I do begin to run out of RAM and
end up spending all my time switching in and out of swap so I limit
the number of harder problems I run at the same time. I've watched it
run to the end (a very boring couple of hours) and it stays out of my
swap space and everything appears to be staying in RAM. Just hangs
after all "poison" has been printed for each process.

The other thing is that I get the message "here" telling me I broke
out of the loop after seeing the poison pill in the process and I get
all the things queued listed as output surely if I were to run out of
memory I wouldn't expect all of the jobs to be listed as output.

I have a serial script that works fine so I know individually for each
example the fortran code works.

Thanks

Matt


From MatzeGuentert at gmx.de  Mon Aug  3 04:46:29 2009
From: MatzeGuentert at gmx.de (Matthias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=FCntert?=)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 08:46:29 +0000
Subject: M2Crypto: X509.X509_Extension_Stack() throws AssertionError
Message-ID: <1249289189.3205.5.camel@celsius>

Hello python-list members

Why is the following code snippet throwing an AssertionError? Is that
behavior a bug within X509.X509_Extension_Stack()? How would you suggest
popping every element from the stack?

Regards,
Matthias G?ntert 

-------------------------------------------------
from M2Crypto import X509

if __name__ == '__main__':
    cert_extension_stack = X509.X509_Extension_Stack()
    
    cert_extension_1 = X509.new_extension("basicConstraints",
"CA:FALSE")
    cert_extension_1.set_critical()
    
    cert_extension_2 = X509.new_extension("keyUsage", "101000000") 
    cert_extension_2.set_critical()
    
    cert_extension_3 = X509.new_extension("subjectAlternativeName",
"DNS:www.mydomain.tld")
    
    print cert_extension_stack.push(cert_extension_1)
    print cert_extension_stack.push(cert_extension_2)
    print cert_extension_stack.push(cert_extension_3)
    
    print cert_extension_stack.pop()
-------------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------------
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "test.py", line 18, in 
    print cert_extension_stack.pop()
  File "/usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/M2Crypto/X509.py", line 159,
in pop
    assert len(self.pystack) == 0
AssertionError
1
2
3
-------------------------------------------------



From zdenekmaxa at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Aug  3 05:19:11 2009
From: zdenekmaxa at yahoo.co.uk (Zdenek Maxa)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 11:19:11 +0200
Subject: urllib2.urlopen timeout
Message-ID: <4A76AB8F.5090403@yahoo.co.uk>

Hi,

I would like to ask how I should set timeout for a call:

f = urllib2.urlopen(url)

I am using Python 2.5. I have already tried
socket.setdefaulttimeout(3). However, this adversely affects other
connections the application makes, since it seems to affect all socket
connections.

I know that Python 2.6 offers
urllib2.urlopen(url[, data][, timeout])
which would elegantly solved my problem, but I have to stick to Python 2.5.

I am doing urlopen in a thread so I want to avoid really long hanging on
this call, which happens at times, until some default timeout ticks out.

All hints appreciated.

Thanks,
Zdenek


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Mon Aug  3 06:46:45 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 12:46:45 +0200
Subject: Printing with colors in a portable way
In-Reply-To: 
References: <33e19169-19b4-497a-b262-2bcf7b5637d5@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4A76C015.5010600@sequans.com>

Nobody wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 15:40:37 -0700, Robert Dailey wrote:
>
>   
>> Anyone know of a way to print text in Python 3.1 with colors in a
>> portable way? In other words, I should be able to do something like
>> this:
>>
>> print_color( "This is my text", COLOR_BLUE )
>>
>> And this should be portable (i.e. it should work on Linux, Mac,
>> Windows).
>>     
>
> The way that terminals (and emulators) handle colour is fundamentally
> different from the DOS/Windows console. If you want something which will
> work on both, you will have write separate implementations for terminals
> and the DOS/Windows console.
>
> For terminals, you can use the "curses" package, e.g.:
>
> import curses
>
> curses.setupterm()
> setaf = curses.tigetstr('setaf')
> setab = curses.tigetstr('setab')
>
> def foreground(num):
>     if setaf:
>         sys.stdout.write(curses.tparm(setaf, num))
>
> def background(num):
>     if setab:
>         sys.stdout.write(curses.tparm(setab, num))
>
> For the Windows console, you'll need to use ctypes to interface to the
> SetConsoleTextAttribute() function from Kernel32.dll.
>
>   

FYI

http://github.com/jbowes/markymark/blob/59511b36a752b40243cc18fb0fb9800c74549ac1/markymark.py

If the URL ever becomes invalid, then google for markymark.py
You can use it either to color your Linux/Unix terms, or you can just 
look at the python code to see how to set colors and attributes.


JM


From hitechpundir at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 07:12:15 2009
From: hitechpundir at gmail.com (sirjee)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 04:12:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: problem in event handling on change of variable value.
References: <9c0d7a31-0310-4499-9974-92afc588f315@d15g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <27a8e24c-7f58-4952-b45a-439601223199@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 1, 2:22?pm, sirjee  wrote:
> hello;
>
> i m facing a problem in handling events on change of value of
> environment variable in a toolCANoe.
>
> class CANoeEvents:
> ? ? def OnChange(self,value):
> ? ? ? ? print "value of environment variable has changed"
> ? ? def OnOpen(self,App):
> ? ? ? ? print "opening Application"
>
> App_Event = DispatchWithEvents('CANoe.Application',CANoeEvents)
> time.sleep(2)
> App_Event.Open("C:\projectConfig.cfg") ?# printd "opening Application"
> and event handled properly.
> .......(now a code file runs in thecanoein which value of
> environment variable called dummy is changed during execution. Just
> like OnOpen; OnChange is defined in specification which should be
> called on change of environment variable.But it is not happening.)
> while ():
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? myenvVar = App_Event.Environment.GetVariable("dummy")
>
> The VB does it very easily and defines a subroutine called :
> Sub myenvVar _OnChange(value)
> ? ?print "value of environment variable has changed"
> End Sub
> //////////////////////////////////////////////////however the
> alternative for subroutine for OnOpen in VB (defined below) works fine
> as shown above in python.
> Sub AppEvent_OnOpen(App)
> ? ? ? ? print "opening Application"
> End Sub
>
> for VB; all this stuff is cake work.... object_eventname subroutine
> and done.....what in python?

hi all;

strange !!!!
i got answer to the problem posted by me only.
now I have very good control of CANoe tool from python....
if anybody faces any problem wrt automation of CANoe tool using
python; do contact me.
here actual problem lied in analysing and implementing com heirarchy.
( which is really bit cumbersome)
onChange event is associated with App_Event.Environment.GetVariable
("dummy") object.
So we need to associate separate class with this object and then write
onChange function:


class evtClass:
    def __init__(self):
        print "initializing event class"
    def OnChange(self,value):
            print "value of environment variable changing"

            print "changed value of environment variable is"
            print value


see = App_Event.Environment.GetVariable("dummy")
see_temp=DispatchWithEvents(see,evtClass)

this will solve problem.
So we need to create separate classes for events associated with
separate objects.

regards
sirjee


From marcusw at cox.net  Mon Aug  3 08:01:00 2009
From: marcusw at cox.net (Marcus Wanner)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 08:01:00 -0400
Subject: Is python buffer overflow proof?
In-Reply-To: <7dnissF2bthr0U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: 	
	
	
	<7dnissF2bthr0U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: 

On 8/3/2009 3:45 AM, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> Marcus Wanner schrieb:
>> On 8/2/2009 10:43 AM, Christian Heimes wrote:
>>> Marcus Wanner wrote:
>>>> I believe that python is buffer overflow proof. In fact, I think 
>>>> that even ctypes is overflow proof...
>>>
>>> No, ctypes isn't buffer overflow proof. ctypes can break and crash a 
>>> Python interpreter easily.
>>>
>>> Christian
>>>
>> I see. I thought that it said "invalid array index" when you try to 
>> read/write outside of an array's bounds, though...
> 
> 
> But you can cast the resulting pointer to an array of larger size, and 
> there you are.
> 
> Diez
Ah, that makes sense. I had forgotten about ctypes.cast().

Marcus


From riaz.ahmadskh at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 08:03:46 2009
From: riaz.ahmadskh at gmail.com (Riaz Ahmad)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 05:03:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: "PAKISTAN NEWS" "PAKISTANI NEWSPAPERS" "MAGAZINES ON LINE" "URDU 
	LANGUAGE SOFTWARES" "URDU POETRY PAKISTAN" "PAKISTANI WEB SITE
	DIRECTOR" "PAKISTANI NEWSPAPERS" "PAKISTAN" "PAKISTAN" on
	www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com
Message-ID: 

"PAKISTAN NEWS"

www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com

 "PAKISTANI NEWSPAPERS"



www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com

 "MAGAZINES ON LINE"


www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com


 "URDU LANGUAGE SOFTWARES"



www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com


 "URDU POETRY PAKISTAN"

www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com

 "PAKISTANI WEB SITE DIRECTOR"


www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com


 "PAKISTANI NEWSPAPERS"


www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com

 "PAKISTAN"



www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com


 "PAKISTAN"


www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com


 on


 www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com


From hubaghdadi at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 08:14:35 2009
From: hubaghdadi at gmail.com (Hussein B)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 05:14:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Executing remote command with paramiko
Message-ID: 

Hey,
I'm trying to run a sudo guarded command over SSH using paramiko
+++++++++++++++++++
s = paramiko.SSHClient()
s.load_system_host_keys()
s.connect(hostname, port, username, passwd)
stdin, stdout, stderr = s.exec_command('sudo -s')
stdin.write('password\n')
stdin.flush()
print 'Flushing'
stdin, stdout, stderr = s.exec_command('harvester')
print stdout.read()
s.close()
+++++++++++++++++++
It seems to me that the sudo -s isn't getting executed at all.
I commented the sudo -s code lines and no error is shown.
Thanks for help and time.


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Mon Aug  3 08:34:28 2009
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 3 Aug 2009 12:34:28 GMT
Subject: heapq "key" arguments
References: <97932d10-8601-401f-bb69-a98db9036929@p15g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<1582f82e-34aa-4b66-b989-c9f8351a5f1c@o9g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<4f096546-36a1-4633-9a24-1265ce0929ce@q14g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

"Gabriel Genellina"  wrote:

> Ok, it's not strictly the same, but usually it doesn't hurt. The heaqp
>  module doesn't promise anything about equal elements: it may keep the
>  original order, rearrange them at will, reverse them, whatever.

The documentation doesn't say anything directly about stability, but the 
implementation is actually stable. You can probably assume it must be at 
least for nlargest and nsmallest otherwise the stated equivalence wouldn't 
hold:

e.g. nsmallest documentation says:

    	Equivalent to: sorted(iterable, key=key)[:n]




-- 
Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Mon Aug  3 09:00:33 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 06:00:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: New implementation of re module
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Jul 28, 2:34?am, MRAB  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I've been working on a new implementation of the re module. The details
> are athttp://bugs.python.org/issue2636, specifically fromhttp://bugs.python.org/issue2636#msg90954. I've included a .pyd file for
> Python 2.6 on Windows if you want to try it out.
>

Where/how should we report perceived bugs: On that bugs.python.org
issue? Here? Private e-mail?




From ram.rachum at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 09:18:29 2009
From: ram.rachum at gmail.com (cool-RR)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 06:18:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Announcing PythonTurtle
Message-ID: 

Hello,

I wanted to announce that I have just released my little side project,
PythonTurtle.
Here is its website:
http://pythonturtle.com

Its goal is to be the lowest-threshold way to learn (or teach) Python.
You can read more about it and download it on the website.

Ram.


From mydevforums at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 10:04:07 2009
From: mydevforums at gmail.com (IronyOfLife)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 07:04:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python configuration question when python scripts are executed using 
	Appweb as web server.
Message-ID: 

Hi All

I have installed python 2.6.2 in windows xp professional machine. I
have set the following environment variables -- PYTHONPATH. It points
to following windows folders: python root folder, the lib folder and
lib-tk folder. I have configured IIS to execute python scripts.

I do not have any issues executing python scripts from the python
interpreter window or from the browser using IIS as the web server.

However, when I use the open source Appweb web browser to execute
python scripts. It is able to execute only simple script without
issues. For example, hello.py executes fine.

hello.py
--------------------------------------------------------
#!/usr/bin/env python

print "Content-type: text/html\n\n"
print "Hello world!"

However I am not able to execute python scripts that contain import
statements. I need to point out here that i do not have issue with
using os or sys packages. When I tried to execute the sample client
script that came with the gnutls wrapper for python, I got error. I
narrowed it down to the "from ... import" line in the example.

from gnutls.crypto import *
from gnutls.connection import *

Next I modified it to the functions used in the client python scripts
(NOTE: I have added some additional functions to connection and crypto
python scripts).
from gnutls.crypto import X509Certificate, X509PrivateKey, X509CRL
from gnutls.connection import AnonClientCred

Next step, in order to debug, I used the module finder to see what is
happening. To being with I used the module finder to find out the
modules loaded for the simple script hello.py.

hello2.py
--------------------------------------------------------
#!/usr/bin/env python

import modulefinder

import pdb

pdb.set_trace()

finder = modulefinder.ModuleFinder()
finder.run_script('hello.py')

print "Content-type: text/html\n\n"
print ""

print sys.exc_info()

print 'Loaded modules:'
for name, mod in finder.modules.iteritems():
    print '%s: ' % name,
    print ','.join(mod.globalnames.keys()[:3])

print '-'*50
print 'Modules not imported:'
print '\n'.join(finder.badmodules.iterkeys())

print ""

I got the error. Please see below for error as captured from Appweb
logs. See lines 3 to 5.

       cgi:5 main  356: CGI Response: read 89 bytes
       cgi:6 main  356: Data is:
> c:\appweb\web\hello2.py(9)()
-> finder = modulefinder.ModuleFinder()

(Pdb)

       cgi:5 main  356: CGI Response: read 0 bytes
       cmd:7 main  getExitCode: process 0, code 1
   default:1 main  Error: 503 "Service Unavailable" for "/hello2.py",
file "c:/appweb/web/hello2.py": CGI process /hello2.py: exited
abnormally with exit code: 1
   request:5 main  356: flushOutput: background 0

Once again, let me stress that this issue is happening only when I use
appweb as the web server.

Some details on Appweb that I found out: Appweb opens up a new console
process and executes the python scripts. See sample below:

cmd:5 pool.0  Running: C:\Dev\Ironic\Tools\Python26\python.exe c:/
appweb/web/hello2.py

When python scripts are executed in this fashion, should there be
additional command line arguments be passed? Am I missing any
additional settings. Also can you help with improving the debugging
lines in hello2.py so that I can identify the issue.

Please help.

Thanks.

Ram G.


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Mon Aug  3 10:38:43 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 16:38:43 +0200
Subject: Generate a new object each time a name is imported
In-Reply-To: <02853264$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <02853264$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4A76F673.9010701@sequans.com>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> I would like to generate a new object each time I import a name from a 
> module, rather than getting the same object each time. For example, 
> currently I might do something like this:
>
> # Module
> count = 0
> def factory():
>     # Generate a unique object each time this is called
>     global count
>     count += 1
>     return "Object #%d" % count
>
>
> # Calling module
> from Module import factory
> a = factory()  # a == "Object #1"
> b = factory()  # b == "Object #2"
> del factory
>
>
> I'm looking for a way to hide the generation of objects from the caller, 
> so I could do something like this:
>
> from Module import factory() as a  # a == "Object #1"
> from Module import factory() as b  # b == "Object #2"
>
> except of course that syntax is illegal.
>
>
>   
Why making standard statements do what they're not meant to do ?

You could write
 >import Module
 >
 >a = factory()
 >b = factory()
But you already know that.


So what's the purpose of making

>from Module import factory as a
>from Module import factory as b

return 2 different objects ? If I had to write this code I would expect 'a is b' to return 'True'.

This is no "don't do that" answer, it's a sincere question: what  is the 
benefit of your /new/ syntax ?

JM


From andre.roberge at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 10:53:43 2009
From: andre.roberge at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9?=)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 07:53:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Announcing PythonTurtle
References: 
Message-ID: <44a7457e-4dc7-4ad4-be80-3585ce693bc9@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 3, 10:18?am, cool-RR  wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I wanted to announce that I have just released my little side project,
> PythonTurtle.
> Here is its website:http://pythonturtle.com
>
> Its goal is to be the lowest-threshold way to learn (or teach) Python.
> You can read more about it and download it on the website.
>
> Ram.

Why not make the source available?  At the very least, people that do
not run windows could try it too.

Andr?


From jcd at sdf.lonestar.org  Mon Aug  3 10:54:05 2009
From: jcd at sdf.lonestar.org (J. Cliff Dyer)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 10:54:05 -0400
Subject: A Bug By Any Other Name ...
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: <1249311245.8865.11.camel@aalcdl07>

On Sun, 2009-08-02 at 14:14 +0000, Albert van der Horst wrote:
> >This is actually quite thoroughly untrue.  In python, *indentation*
> is
> >significant.  Whitespace (internal to a line) is not.  You can even
> call
> >methods like this if you want:
> 
> You totally don't get it. You describe how python is now.
> I propose a change to be made to python. Small wonder that that is
> different from what it is now.
> 
> >
> >>>> s = 'abc'
> >>>> s        .     upper()
> >ABC
> 
> You prove nothing by giving examples.
> You can disprove by giving one counter example,
> here it goes.
> 
> Whitespace (internal to a line) is significant.
> In Python you cannot change
>       xleftgoing = 123000000
> to
>         x left going = 123 000 000
> 
> (You can in Algol68)

I had a feeling that counterexample would be coming sooner or later.
However, it doesn't really address the change you're looking for.
Internal whitespace *is* irrelevant, except insofar as it can be used to
delimit different tokens in parsing.  If tokens are separate, they are
separate, and no more or less whitespace is going to make any
difference.  

Again, I'm describing how python is now.  Which is not to say it
couldn't be changed, I just want to make sure you understand how deep
into the heart of python you are trying to cut.  You make it sound like
a small change, but it is not.  You are proposing changing the parsing
rules, which completely changes the scope of what is possible and what
isn't with python syntax.  All to solve a problem that, so far, hasn't
been proven to exist in anything other than a speculative way.

You're trying to turn an ocean liner around because you left your
sunscreen on the dock.

Cheers,
Cliff



From newsgroup at silveraxe.de  Mon Aug  3 10:56:17 2009
From: newsgroup at silveraxe.de (Hilmar Bunjes)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 16:56:17 +0200
Subject: Announcing PythonTurtle
In-Reply-To: <44a7457e-4dc7-4ad4-be80-3585ce693bc9@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<44a7457e-4dc7-4ad4-be80-3585ce693bc9@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a76fa98$0$31327$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>

Andr? schrieb:

>> I wanted to announce that I have just released my little side project,
>> PythonTurtle.
>> Here is its website:http://pythonturtle.com
>>
>> Its goal is to be the lowest-threshold way to learn (or teach) Python.
>> You can read more about it and download it on the website.
>>
>> Ram.
> 
> Why not make the source available?  At the very least, people that do
> not run windows could try it too.

Isn't this the source: http://github.com/cool-RR/PythonTurtle/tree/master ?

Linked at the bottom of the page.

Best,
Hilmar


From sandhyaprabhakaran at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 11:17:53 2009
From: sandhyaprabhakaran at gmail.com (Sandhya Prabhakaran)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 08:17:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Extract the numeric and alphabetic part from an alphanumeric string
Message-ID: <984623a6-1bfb-4a82-8ec4-000fa68878d6@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I have a string as str='123ACTGAAC'.

I need to extract the numeric part from the alphabetic part which I
did using
>>>numer=re.findall(r'\d+',str)
>>>numer
123

To get the alphabetic part, I could do
>>>alpha=str.replace('123','')
>>>alpha
ACTGAAC
But when I give
>>>alpha=str.replace(numer,'')
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
TypeError: expected a character buffer object

How do I blank out the initial numeric part so as to get just the
alphabetic part. The string is always in the same format.

Please help.

Regards,
Sandhya


From ram.rachum at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 11:22:50 2009
From: ram.rachum at gmail.com (cool-RR)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 08:22:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Announcing PythonTurtle
References: 
	<44a7457e-4dc7-4ad4-be80-3585ce693bc9@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 3, 5:53?pm, Andr?  wrote:
> On Aug 3, 10:18?am, cool-RR  wrote:
>
> > Hello,
>
> > I wanted to announce that I have just released my little side project,
> > PythonTurtle.
> > Here is its website:http://pythonturtle.com
>
> > Its goal is to be the lowest-threshold way to learn (or teach) Python.
> > You can read more about it and download it on the website.
>
> > Ram.
>
> Why not make the source available? ?At the very least, people that do
> not run windows could try it too.
>
> Andr?

Sorry that the link is obscure like that. I'll change it so it's
easier to see.


From peter at peter-b.co.uk  Mon Aug  3 11:31:09 2009
From: peter at peter-b.co.uk (Peter Brett)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 16:31:09 +0100
Subject: Extract the numeric and alphabetic part from an alphanumeric
	string
References: <984623a6-1bfb-4a82-8ec4-000fa68878d6@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Sandhya Prabhakaran  writes:

> Hi,
>
> I have a string as str='123ACTGAAC'.
>
> I need to extract the numeric part from the alphabetic part which I
> did using
>>>>numer=re.findall(r'\d+',str)
>>>>numer
> 123
>
> To get the alphabetic part, I could do
>>>>alpha=str.replace('123','')
>>>>alpha
> ACTGAAC
> But when I give
>>>>alpha=str.replace(numer,'')
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "", line 1, in 
> TypeError: expected a character buffer object
>
> How do I blank out the initial numeric part so as to get just the
> alphabetic part. The string is always in the same format.

Firstly, you really should read the Regular Expression HOWTO:

  http://docs.python.org/howto/regex.html#regex-howto

Secondly, is this what you wanted to do?

  >>> p = re.compile(r'^\d+')
  >>> p.sub('', '123ACTGAAC')
  'ACTGAAC'

Regards,

                                       Peter

-- 
Peter Brett 
Remote Sensing Research Group
Surrey Space Centre


From andreas.tawn at ubisoft.com  Mon Aug  3 11:33:00 2009
From: andreas.tawn at ubisoft.com (Andreas Tawn)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 17:33:00 +0200
Subject: Extract the numeric and alphabetic part from an alphanumeric
	string
In-Reply-To: <984623a6-1bfb-4a82-8ec4-000fa68878d6@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <984623a6-1bfb-4a82-8ec4-000fa68878d6@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8AEDA5E3386EA742B8C24C95FF0C758007C8ACF4@PDC-MAIL3.ubisoft.org>


> Hi,
> 
> I have a string as str='123ACTGAAC'.
> 
> I need to extract the numeric part from the alphabetic part which I
> did using
> >>>numer=re.findall(r'\d+',str)
> >>>numer
> 123
> 
> To get the alphabetic part, I could do
> >>>alpha=str.replace('123','')
> >>>alpha
> ACTGAAC
> But when I give
> >>>alpha=str.replace(numer,'')
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "", line 1, in 
> TypeError: expected a character buffer object
> 
> How do I blank out the initial numeric part so as to get just the
> alphabetic part. The string is always in the same format.
> 
> Please help.
> 
> Regards,
> Sandhya

If the format's always the same, you could use slicing instead.

>>> s = '123ACTGAAC'
>>> s[:3]
'123'
>>> s[3:]
'ACTGAAC'

BTW, you should avoid using built-ins like str for variable names. Bad
things will happen.

Cheers,

Drea


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Aug  3 11:43:30 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 16:43:30 +0100
Subject: Extract the numeric and alphabetic part from an alphanumeric
	string
In-Reply-To: <984623a6-1bfb-4a82-8ec4-000fa68878d6@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <984623a6-1bfb-4a82-8ec4-000fa68878d6@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A7705A2.2010301@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Sandhya Prabhakaran wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I have a string as str='123ACTGAAC'.
> 
> I need to extract the numeric part from the alphabetic part which I
> did using
>>>> numer=re.findall(r'\d+',str)
>>>> numer
> 123
> 
[snip]

I get:

['123']

which is a _list_ of the strings found.


From kushal.kumaran+python at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 11:49:15 2009
From: kushal.kumaran+python at gmail.com (Kushal Kumaran)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 21:19:15 +0530
Subject: Extract the numeric and alphabetic part from an alphanumeric 
	string
In-Reply-To: <984623a6-1bfb-4a82-8ec4-000fa68878d6@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <984623a6-1bfb-4a82-8ec4-000fa68878d6@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1e364c4e0908030849u7583637h9c8d688f8520b904@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:47 PM, Sandhya
Prabhakaran wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a string as str='123ACTGAAC'.
>
> I need to extract the numeric part from the alphabetic part which I
> did using
>>>>numer=re.findall(r'\d+',str)
>>>>numer
> 123
>

The docs for re.findall say that it returns a list of matches.  So
'123' will be numer[0].

> To get the alphabetic part, I could do
>>>>alpha=str.replace('123','')
>>>>alpha
> ACTGAAC
> But when I give
>>>>alpha=str.replace(numer,'')
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ?File "", line 1, in 
> TypeError: expected a character buffer object
>

That's what would happen if you pass in a list instead of a string to replace.

> How do I blank out the initial numeric part so as to get just the
> alphabetic part. The string is always in the same format.
>
> Please help.
>

-- 
kushal


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Aug  3 12:00:05 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 17:00:05 +0100
Subject: New implementation of re module
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <4A770985.5020900@mrabarnett.plus.com>

John Machin wrote:
> On Jul 28, 2:34 am, MRAB  wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I've been working on a new implementation of the re module. The details
>> are athttp://bugs.python.org/issue2636, specifically fromhttp://bugs.python.org/issue2636#msg90954. I've included a .pyd file for
>> Python 2.6 on Windows if you want to try it out.
>>
> 
> Where/how should we report perceived bugs: On that bugs.python.org
> issue? Here? Private e-mail?
> 
Probably on http://bugs.python.org/issue2636.


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Mon Aug  3 12:00:43 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 09:00:43 -0700
Subject: Python docs disappointing
In-Reply-To: <7bb4df03-f09a-40b0-83f8-1c6d0c9800a8@j21g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
References: 		
	<7bb4df03-f09a-40b0-83f8-1c6d0c9800a8@j21g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A7709AB.4060105@stoneleaf.us>

Carl Banks wrote:
> On Jul 31, 1:55 pm, Mark Lawrence  wrote:
> 
>>Apart from that what have the Pythonistas ever done for us? Nothing!:)
> 
> 
> 
> Please don't feed the trolls.
> 
> And if you do feed the trolls don't smile at them.
> 
> 
> Carl Banks

And if you do smile at them, don't show your teeth!

~Ethan~


From deets at nospam.web.de  Mon Aug  3 12:01:14 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 18:01:14 +0200
Subject: Compiling regex inside function?
References: 
Message-ID: <7dofubF2crctpU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Anthra Norell wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
>    I have a regex that has no use outside of a particular function. From
> an encapsulation point of view it should be scoped as restrictively as
> possible. Defining it inside the function certainly works, but if
> re.compile () is run every time the function is called, it isn't such a
> good idea after all. E.g.
> 
> def entries (l):
>         r = re.compile ('([0-9]+) entr(y|ies)')
>         match = r.search (l)
>         if match: return match.group (1)
> 
> So the question is: does "r" get regex-compiled once at py-compile time
> or repeatedly at entries() run time?

This can't be answered as simple yes/no-question.

While the statement is executed each time, the resulting pattern-object
isn't re-created, instead there is a caching-mechanism inside the module -
so unless you create a situation where that cache's limits are exceeded and
pattern objects are removed from it, you are essentially having the
overhead of one function-call & a dict-lookup. Certainly worth it.

As an additional note: r"" has *nothing* todo with this, that's just
so-called raw string literals which have a different escaping-behavior -
thus it's easier to write regexes in them. 

Diez




From cjw at ncf.ca  Mon Aug  3 12:04:50 2009
From: cjw at ncf.ca (Colin J. Williams)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 12:04:50 -0400
Subject: Announcing PythonTurtle
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

cool-RR wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I wanted to announce that I have just released my little side project,
> PythonTurtle.
> Here is its website:
> http://pythonturtle.com
> 
> Its goal is to be the lowest-threshold way to learn (or teach) Python.
> You can read more about it and download it on the website.
> 
> Ram.

It looks neat but it's not yet ready for prime time.

Colin W.


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 12:24:19 2009
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 11:24:19 -0500
Subject: iterate lines with regex
In-Reply-To: <75c8645a0908011239q54292379tb02ff4de364839af@mail.gmail.com>
References: <75c8645a0908011239q54292379tb02ff4de364839af@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-01 14:39, Michael Savarese wrote:
>
> I'm a python newbie and I'm trying to test several regular expressions
> on the same line before moving on to next line.
> it seems to move on to next line before trying all regular expressions
> which is my goal.
> it only returns true for first regular expression
> does the curser have to be rest to beginning of line? If so, how would I
> do that.
> remember I'm new
> thanks in advance to any advice
> Mike S.
>
> the following is part of my code,
> readThis=open('c:/9320.txt','r')
>
> for line in readThis:
>      try:
>          thisKey = key.search(line).group(1)
>          thisMap = map.search(line).group(1)
>          thisParcel = parcel.search(line).group(1)
>      except:
>          continue

What is happening is that either key or map fails to match and trying to get a 
group raises an exception. This is caught, and the "continue" statement tells 
the for-loop to go to the next line in readThis. The "continue" statement does 
not mean "go back to where the error was raised and continue executing as if no 
error happened".

The key to using try: except: properly is to surround as little code as 
possible. Also, to explicitly state which exceptions you are going to catch.

In this case, though, you don't want to use exceptions. You should deal with the 
match objects that are the result of the .search() method.

for line in readThis:
     key_match = key.search(line)
     if key_match is not None:
         this_key = key_match.group(1)
         # ... do something with this_key
     map_match = map.search(line)
     if map_match is not None:
         this_map = map_match.group(1)
         # ... do something with this_map
     parcel_match = parcel.search(line)
     if parcel_match is not None:
         this_parcel = parcel_match.group(1)
         # ... do something with this_parcel


-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 12:40:02 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 09:40:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Extract the numeric and alphabetic part from an alphanumeric 
	string
References: <984623a6-1bfb-4a82-8ec4-000fa68878d6@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3fc2ad25-8af7-452e-aab5-5716064d758f@y28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

Sandhya Prabhakaran  wrote:
> I have a string as str='123ACTGAAC'.

You shouldn't use 'str' as a label like that, it prevents you from
using the str() function in the same body of code.

> How do I blank out the initial numeric part so as to get just the
> alphabetic part. The string is always in the same format.

>>> sample = '123ACTGAAC'
>>> numer = ''.join(s for s in sample if s.isdigit())
>>> alpha = ''.join(s for s in sample if s.isalpha())
>>> numer, alpha
('123', 'ACTGAAC')

If by 'always in the same format' you mean the positions of the
numbers & alphas,
you could slightly abuse the struct module:

>>> import struct
>>> sample = '123ACTGAAC'
>>> format = '3s7s' # a string of 3 + a string of 7
>>> struct.unpack(format, sample)
('123', 'ACTGAAC')

But seriously, you should use slicing:

>>> sample = '123ACTGAAC'
>>> sample[0:3], sample[3:]
('123', 'CTGAAC')

You can also label the slices, which can be handy for self-documenting
your code:

>>> num = slice(3)
>>> alp = slice(4,10)
>>> sample[num], sample[alp]
('123', 'CTGAAC')


From ram.rachum at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 12:47:43 2009
From: ram.rachum at gmail.com (cool-RR)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 09:47:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Announcing PythonTurtle
References: 
	
Message-ID: <729a6652-cdfa-49b8-8013-6d7861b8020e@d4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 3, 7:04?pm, "Colin J. Williams"  wrote:
> cool-RR wrote:
> > Hello,
>
> > I wanted to announce that I have just released my little side project,
> > PythonTurtle.
> > Here is its website:
> >http://pythonturtle.com
>
> > Its goal is to be the lowest-threshold way to learn (or teach) Python.
> > You can read more about it and download it on the website.
>
> > Ram.
>
> It looks neat but it's not yet ready for prime time.
>
> Colin W.

I agree there's a lot that can be improved - I wanted to put it out
there so I could get feedback and fix the important things first. So
I'd appreciate you telling me what you think needs improvement.

Ram.


From sandhyaprabhakaran at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 12:52:48 2009
From: sandhyaprabhakaran at gmail.com (Sandhya Prabhakaran)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 18:52:48 +0200
Subject: Extract the numeric and alphabetic part from an alphanumeric 
	string
In-Reply-To: <1e364c4e0908030849u7583637h9c8d688f8520b904@mail.gmail.com>
References: <984623a6-1bfb-4a82-8ec4-000fa68878d6@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<1e364c4e0908030849u7583637h9c8d688f8520b904@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

Oh yes indeed........!
Now that works :D

Thanks a lot !!

2009/8/3 Kushal Kumaran

>

> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:47 PM, Sandhya
> Prabhakaran wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have a string as str='123ACTGAAC'.
> >
> > I need to extract the numeric part from the alphabetic part which I
> > did using
> >>>>numer=re.findall(r'\d+',str)
> >>>>numer
> > 123
> >
>
> The docs for re.findall say that it returns a list of matches.  So
> '123' will be numer[0].
>
> > To get the alphabetic part, I could do
> >>>>alpha=str.replace('123','')
> >>>>alpha
> > ACTGAAC
> > But when I give
> >>>>alpha=str.replace(numer,'')
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >  File "", line 1, in 
> > TypeError: expected a character buffer object
> >
>
> That's what would happen if you pass in a list instead of a string to
> replace.
>
> > How do I blank out the initial numeric part so as to get just the
> > alphabetic part. The string is always in the same format.
> >
> > Please help.
> >
>
> --
> kushal
>
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From python at rcn.com  Mon Aug  3 12:55:06 2009
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 09:55:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: heapq "key" arguments
References: <97932d10-8601-401f-bb69-a98db9036929@p15g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<1582f82e-34aa-4b66-b989-c9f8351a5f1c@o9g2000prg.googlegroups.com> 
	<4f096546-36a1-4633-9a24-1265ce0929ce@q14g2000vbi.googlegroups.com> 
	
	
Message-ID: <3d2f5ff5-201e-4451-b9e7-fb33652b44a7@d9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

[Duncan Booth]
> The documentation doesn't say anything directly about stability, but the
> implementation is actually stable. You can probably assume it must be at
> least for nlargest and nsmallest otherwise the stated equivalence wouldn't
> hold:
>
> e.g. nsmallest documentation says:
>
> ? ? ? ? Equivalent to: sorted(iterable, key=key)[:n]

Yes.   The code for nsmallest and nlargest preserves stability
so that the equivalence is maintained.


Raymond



From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 12:56:02 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 09:56:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Compiling regex inside function?
References: 
Message-ID: 

Anthra Norell  wrote:
> def entries (l):
> ? ? ? ? r = re.compile ('([0-9]+) entr(y|ies)')
> ? ? ? ? match = r.search (l)
> ? ? ? ? if match: return match.group (1)
>
> So the question is: does "r" get regex-compiled once at py-compile time
> or repeatedly at entries() run time?

The docs say:
The compiled versions of the most recent patterns passed to re.match
(), re.search() or re.compile() are cached, so programs that use only
a few regular expressions at a time needn?t worry about compiling
regular expressions.

(But they don't say how few is 'only a few'...)

If you're concerned about it, you could always set the compiled
pattern to a default value in the function's argspec, as that _is_
only executed the once:

def entries(line, regex = re.compile('([0-9]+) entr(y|ies)'):
    match = regex.search(line)
    ...


From nagle at animats.com  Mon Aug  3 12:57:08 2009
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 09:57:08 -0700
Subject: Help understanding the decisions *behind* python?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<988a5f49-7907-4351-bfd0-7bb05e821795@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4a7715ff$0$1641$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

Dave Angel wrote:
> sturlamolden wrote:
>> On 20 Jul, 18:27, Phillip B Oldham  wrote:
>> Tuples are used for passing arguments to and from a function. Common
>> use of tuples include multiple return values and optional arguments
>> (*args).

    That's from Mesa, the Xerox PARC language of the 1970s.

    Mesa used tuples for subroutine arguments in a very straightforward
way.  Every function took one tuple as an argument, written as parameters
in parentheses separated by commas.  Every function returned a tuple
as an argument.  This had a nice symmetry; function outputs and
function inputs had the same form.  Mesa was the first language
to break through the "single return value" syntax problem.

    Python doesn't go that far.

				John Nagle


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 13:02:57 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 10:02:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Help understanding the decisions *behind* python?
References:  
	<988a5f49-7907-4351-bfd0-7bb05e821795@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> 
	
	<4a7715ff$0$1641$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <686a0fac-b746-488f-9514-a1849fbda94d@g1g2000pra.googlegroups.com>

John Nagle  wrote:
> Every function returned a tuple as an argument.  This had a nice
> symmetry; function outputs and function inputs had the same form. ?
> Mesa was the first language to break through the "single return
> value" syntax problem.
>
> ? ? Python doesn't go that far.

I assume here you're referring to the former point and not the latter?


From nobody at nowhere.com  Mon Aug  3 13:23:06 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 18:23:06 +0100
Subject: Queryable Daemon
References: <81F5E933-9140-4269-AA13-FDB34CB9E895@gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 19:36:08 -0600, Michael Torrie wrote:

> Another possibility is shared memory segments.  I'm not sure how
> security is done in this case.

Shared memory segments have an owner, group, and the standard ugo=rwx
permissions (execute permission is present but ignored); see the shmget(2)
and shmctl(2) manpages.

But Unix-domain sockets are supported by the standard library, while
shared memory would require a separate library, e.g.:

	http://semanchuk.com/philip/PythonIpc/

Also, there is unlikely to be an advantage to using shared memory in
Python. In most cases, you would have to explicitly serialise Python
objects into the shared memory region. It's more useful in C, where you
can treat the region as a struct which is accessed directly from the
program.



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Aug  3 13:29:56 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 18:29:56 +0100
Subject: iterate lines with regex
In-Reply-To: 
References: <75c8645a0908011239q54292379tb02ff4de364839af@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <4A771E94.70805@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Robert Kern wrote:
[snip]
> 
> for line in readThis:
>     key_match = key.search(line)
>     if key_match is not None:
>         this_key = key_match.group(1)
>         # ... do something with this_key
>     map_match = map.search(line)
>     if map_match is not None:
>         this_map = map_match.group(1)
>         # ... do something with this_map
>     parcel_match = parcel.search(line)
>     if parcel_match is not None:
>         this_parcel = parcel_match.group(1)
>         # ... do something with this_parcel
> 
re.search and re.match will return a MatchObject if successful or None
if unsuccessful. A MatchObject is always true, so you can simplify to:

     ...
     if key_match:
         this_key = key_match.group(1)
         # ... do something with this_key
     ...


From python at rcn.com  Mon Aug  3 13:36:28 2009
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 10:36:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: heapq "key" arguments
References: <97932d10-8601-401f-bb69-a98db9036929@p15g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

[Joshua Bronson]:
> According tohttp://docs.python.org/library/heapq.html, Python 2.5
> added an optional "key" argument to heapq.nsmallest and
> heapq.nlargest. I could never understand why they didn't also add a
> "key" argument to the other relevant functions (heapify, heappush,
> etc).

The problem is that heapq acts on regular lists, so it does not
have exclusive access to the structure.  So, there is no reliable
way for it to maintain a separate list of keys.  Since the keys
can't be saved in the structure (without possibly breaking other
code), the fine grained heapq functions (like heappop and heappush)
would need to call key functions every time they are invoked.
This is at odds with the implicit guarantee of the key function
that it will be called no more than once per key.

The overall problem is one of granularity.  A key function should
be applied once in an initial pass, not on every call to a push/pop
function.  The everyday solution that most people use is to operate
on a list of (key, record) tuples and let tuple comparison do the
work for you.  Another solution is to build a Heap class that does
have exclusive access to the structure, but the API sugar often
isn't worth the slightly weaker performance.

One other thought.  Heaps are a lazy evaluation structure, so their
fined-grained mutation functions only work well with just a single
ordering function, so there is not need to have (and every reason
to avoid) changing key functions in mid-stream.  IOW, the key
function needs to be constant across all accesses.  Contrast this
with other uses of key functions where it makes perfect sense
to run minage=min(data, key=attrgetter('age')) and then running
minsal=min(data, key=attrgetter('salary')).  The flexibility to
change key functions just doesn't make sense in the context of
the fine-grained heap functions.

Accordingly, this is why I put key functions in nlargest() and
nsmallest() but not in heappush() and friends.  The former can
guarantee no more than one key function call per entry and they
evaluate immediately instead of lazily.


Raymond






From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Mon Aug  3 13:47:05 2009
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 3 Aug 2009 17:47:05 GMT
Subject: Compiling regex inside function?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

alex23  wrote:

> The docs say:
> The compiled versions of the most recent patterns passed to re.match
> (), re.search() or re.compile() are cached, so programs that use only
> a few regular expressions at a time needn?t worry about compiling
> regular expressions.
> 
> (But they don't say how few is 'only a few'...)

If you're interested then it isn't all that hard to open up re.py in an 
editor and see that the cache holds up to 100 items. Of course that's just 
an implementation detail so other versions might have a different size 
cache.

Also implementation dependant, but it might be worth knowing that when you 
hit that limit the cache is simply cleared: there's no gradual clearing of 
the oldest or least used entries.


From bcharrow at csail.mit.edu  Mon Aug  3 14:26:38 2009
From: bcharrow at csail.mit.edu (Ben Charrow)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 14:26:38 -0400
Subject: urllib2.urlopen timeout
In-Reply-To: <4A76AB8F.5090403@yahoo.co.uk>
References: <4A76AB8F.5090403@yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4A772BDE.4020602@csail.mit.edu>

Zdenek Maxa wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I would like to ask how I should set timeout for a call:
> 
> f = urllib2.urlopen(url)
> 

> 
> I know that Python 2.6 offers
> urllib2.urlopen(url[, data][, timeout])
> which would elegantly solved my problem, but I have to stick to Python 2.5.
> 

There are three solutions that I know about:
1) Make your own little HTTP library and set timeouts for each of your sockets.
2) The same as the above, except use asynchronous sockets and the the select
module.
3) If you're on a Unix style system, use the signal module (the example is
helpful http://docs.python.org/library/signal.html#example)

Here's some code:

import urllib2
import signal
class TimeoutException(Exception):
    """SIGALARM was sent to the process"""
    pass

def raise_timeout(signum, frame):
    raise TimeoutException("Timeout!")

signal.signal(signal.SIGALRM, raise_timeout)

try:
    signal.alarm(5) # raise alarm in 5 seconds
    data = urllib2.urlopen("http://www.google.com").readlines()
except TimeoutException, ex:
    data = None
finally:
    signal.alarm(0) # disable alarm

HTH,
Ben


From sakradevanamindra at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 14:39:24 2009
From: sakradevanamindra at gmail.com (Leo Brugud)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 11:39:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Can python do something like the onclick events in javascript ?
Message-ID: <68e15376-75b5-4ad7-afe4-e058e33a427a@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

I'm trying to use python to build a simple web page that make use of
the onclick behavior, instead of requiring users
to click the 'submit' button.

I realize in javascript there are onclick, onchange events. Is python
capable of doing the same?

Thanks in Advance


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 14:44:07 2009
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 13:44:07 -0500
Subject: iterate lines with regex
In-Reply-To: <4A771E94.70805@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <75c8645a0908011239q54292379tb02ff4de364839af@mail.gmail.com>	
	<4A771E94.70805@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-03 12:29, MRAB wrote:
> Robert Kern wrote:
> [snip]
>>
>> for line in readThis:
>> key_match = key.search(line)
>> if key_match is not None:
>> this_key = key_match.group(1)
>> # ... do something with this_key
>> map_match = map.search(line)
>> if map_match is not None:
>> this_map = map_match.group(1)
>> # ... do something with this_map
>> parcel_match = parcel.search(line)
>> if parcel_match is not None:
>> this_parcel = parcel_match.group(1)
>> # ... do something with this_parcel
>>
> re.search and re.match will return a MatchObject if successful or None
> if unsuccessful. A MatchObject is always true, so you can simplify to:
>
> ...
> if key_match:
> this_key = key_match.group(1)
> # ... do something with this_key
> ...

True, but I prefer to maintain a consistent style for None-testing regardless of 
whether or not I am sure the not-None type will have a suitable __nonzero__ 
implementation.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From deets at nospam.web.de  Mon Aug  3 14:45:14 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 20:45:14 +0200
Subject: Can python do something like the onclick events in javascript
 ?
In-Reply-To: <68e15376-75b5-4ad7-afe4-e058e33a427a@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: <68e15376-75b5-4ad7-afe4-e058e33a427a@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7dophqF2crpcqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Leo Brugud schrieb:
> I'm trying to use python to build a simple web page that make use of
> the onclick behavior, instead of requiring users
> to click the 'submit' button.

If that's the only reason, don't use JS for that, it's annoying.

> I realize in javascript there are onclick, onchange events. Is python
> capable of doing the same?

Somewhat, through a python-2-javascript-translation:

http://pyjs.org/


Diez


From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Mon Aug  3 14:54:58 2009
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 14:54:58 -0400
Subject: Can python do something like the onclick events in javascript ?
In-Reply-To: <68e15376-75b5-4ad7-afe4-e058e33a427a@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: <68e15376-75b5-4ad7-afe4-e058e33a427a@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 2:39 PM, Leo Brugud wrote:

> I'm trying to use python to build a simple web page that make use of
> the onclick behavior, instead of requiring users
> to click the 'submit' button.
>
> I realize in javascript there are onclick, onchange events. Is python
> capable of doing the same?
>


It depends. Python is usually used as a server-side language while
Javascript is client-side. The client's web browser requests a web page,
your program processes that request and sends the client a web page. That
web page can contain anything you want, including Javascript. Your python
program never hears from that client again until the *client* initiates
contact, be it through a submit button or a javascript event that submits an
HTTP request. You'll have to add the onclick and onchange code to the
resulting web page, using Javascript, because Python never handles sending
the request, jsut receiving it.

Of course, this isn't the case if you are using something like pyjs, which
compiles Python code to Javascript, your code will be running as Javascript
code and not Python code.


>
> Thanks in Advance
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From saimapk81 at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 15:01:51 2009
From: saimapk81 at gmail.com (saima81)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 12:01:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: "MAGZINES IN URDU" "PAKISTANI MAGZINES" PAKISTAN" "PAKISTAN" 
	"PAKISTANI NEWSPAPERS" "tHE eXPRTESS" "JANG NEWS" "WAQT" "DAWN" ON 
	www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com
Message-ID: <054ce11f-597a-4c6e-b130-68a3bee4ad1b@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

"MAGZINES IN URDU" "PAKISTANI MAGZINES" PAKISTAN" "PAKISTAN"
"PAKISTANI NEWSPAPERS" "tHE eXPRTESS" "JANG NEWS" "WAQT" "DAWN" ON
www.pak-web-pages.blogspot.com


From sam at tregar.com  Mon Aug  3 15:11:38 2009
From: sam at tregar.com (Sam Tregar)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 15:11:38 -0400
Subject: Online payment module
Message-ID: 

Hello all.  I'm considering building a module to provide a
cross-payment-gatewat API for making online payments.  In the Perl world we
have a module like this called Business::OnlinePayment (
http://search.cpan.org/~jasonk/Business-OnlinePayment-2.01/OnlinePayment.pm).


Is there anything like this in Python?  My searches so far haven't turned up
anything.  If I don't find one I'll probably build one, covering PayPal and
Authorize.net to start.  If anyone is interested in discussing the project
and/or getting involved shoot me an email.

Thanks,
-sam
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From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Mon Aug  3 15:21:57 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 12:21:57 -0700
Subject: .dbf tables and Null
In-Reply-To: <2f4d5719-6ca8-4ef2-8734-420b3044b1dc@l35g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<2f4d5719-6ca8-4ef2-8734-420b3044b1dc@l35g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A7738D5.3010009@stoneleaf.us>

John Machin wrote:
> On Aug 1, 3:41 am, Ethan Furman  wrote:
> 
>>Mornin'!  and a good one, too, I hope.
>>
>>Question for you...
>>
>>First part of the question:  What is the general value in having Null
>>capability for fields?
> 
> 
> In general, in any database system, so that one can distinguish
> between "the customer has no 'middle name'" ('') and "the customer's
> 'middle name' is unknown" (NULL).
> 
> 
>>Second part:  Is there a tangible difference between Null, and the
>>nothing of 0, '', False, etc, in python?
> 
> 
> 0 is the zero thing, it is not nothing. False is not nothing.
> 
> 
> 
>>Third part:  If there is a tangible difference, do those of us who use
>>python and these old, refuse-to-die, .dbf files actually have need of,
>>or have tables including, Null values?
>>
>>P.S. part (for John Machin, if he sees this  ;)
>>Will the dbf package you are working on support Null values?
> 
> 
> My philosophy when digging stuff out of arcane storages is to expose
> what is found and leave any kludging/sanitising to the next layer.
> 
> For example, None is returned for an N (Number) field that's all
> spaces; it's up to the caller to decide whether to treat None as zero,
> raise an exception, pop up a data-collection dialogue box, ...
> 
> If you mean specifically the Visual Foxpro v3 _NullFlags hack, yes, it
> already supports that, as well as the VFP9 abuse of that hack for
> Varchar and Varbinary fields :-)

Thank you.

It's been an interesting journey learning Python.  Probably the two most 
difficult concepts for me to really internalize have been "batteries 
included" (thank you for the pointer to struct!) (I finally 'found' and 
incorporated array into my dbf module), and "everything is an object, 
even functions!".

The unittest module worked wonderfully in making sure everything still 
worked after switching over to array as well, and the 30+% speed-up is 
also nice!  :)

All in all, I *love* Python!

~Ethan~


From no.email at please.post  Mon Aug  3 15:59:23 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 19:59:23 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: kw param question
Message-ID: 



I want to write a decorator that, among other things, returns a
function that has one additional keyword parameter, say foo=None.

When I try

def my_decorator(f):
    # blah, blah
    def wrapper(*p, foo=None, **kw):
        x = f(*p, **kw)
        if (foo):
            # blah, blah
        else
            # blah blah
    return wrapper 

...i get a syntax error where it says "foo=None".  I get similar
errors with everything else I've tried.

Is is possible to do this in Python?

TIA!

kynn



From hjtoi-better-remove-before-reply at comcast.net  Mon Aug  3 16:08:37 2009
From: hjtoi-better-remove-before-reply at comcast.net (Heikki Toivonen)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 13:08:37 -0700
Subject: M2Crypto: X509.X509_Extension_Stack() throws AssertionError
References: 
Message-ID: 

Matthias G?ntert wrote:
> Why is the following code snippet throwing an AssertionError? Is that
> behavior a bug within X509.X509_Extension_Stack()? How would you suggest
> popping every element from the stack?
>     
>     cert_extension_2 = X509.new_extension("keyUsage", "101000000") 

Maybe your OpenSSL is too old. keyUsage needs to be defined in OpenSSL
obj_dat.h file for this to work.

>     cert_extension_3 = X509.new_extension("subjectAlternativeName",
> "DNS:www.mydomain.tld")

And I believe you mispelled this, try subjectAltName.

With the change in spelling for subjectAltName your test passes for me
using OpenSSL 1.0.0beta3 and M2Crypto 0.20beta with the (still
incomplete) patch to make M2Crypto work with OpenSSL 1.0:
https://bugzilla.osafoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12855

-- 
  Heikki Toivonen - http://heikkitoivonen.net


From marduk at letterboxes.org  Mon Aug  3 16:27:34 2009
From: marduk at letterboxes.org (Albert Hopkins)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 16:27:34 -0400
Subject: kw param question
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <1249331254.1179.7.camel@brotherus.corp.redhat.com>

On Mon, 2009-08-03 at 19:59 +0000, kj wrote:
> 
> I want to write a decorator that, among other things, returns a
> function that has one additional keyword parameter, say foo=None.
> 
> When I try
> 
> def my_decorator(f):
>     # blah, blah
>     def wrapper(*p, foo=None, **kw):
>         x = f(*p, **kw)
>         if (foo):
>             # blah, blah
>         else
>             # blah blah
>     return wrapper 
> 
> ...i get a syntax error where it says "foo=None".  I get similar
> errors with everything else I've tried.
> 

Not exactly sure what you're trying to do.. but, regular arguments must
be used *before* positional and keyword arguments so the definition:

    def wrapper(*p, foo=None, **kw):

is syntactically incorrect whereby the following is correct:

   def wrapper(foo=None, *p, **kw):

But if what you are wanting is to actually add 'foo' to kw then I would
do this:

def my_decorator(f):
    # blah, blah
    def wrapper(*p, **kw):
        if 'foo' not in kw:
            kw['foo'] = None
        x = f(*p, **kw)
        if kw['foo']:
            # blah blah
        else:
            # blah blah
    return wrapper 





From rt8396 at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 16:35:51 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 13:35:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Announcing PythonTurtle
References: 
	
	<729a6652-cdfa-49b8-8013-6d7861b8020e@d4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Hello,
I wanted to announce that I have just released my little side
project,
PythonTurtle.
[snip]

I think it looks great --haven't download the source yet-- but i
really like the screenshot. This will be more "inviting" to the new,
inexperianced users. I like the idea of packaging up the command
prompt and the canvas into one very friendly interface.  I especially
like that you are using a "real" turtle.

I can remember the first time i used turtle (in python stdlib) and i
kept saying to myself...

    "Were the heck is this damn turtle?!?!" (>_<)

:-)


From bartsmeets86 at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 16:39:44 2009
From: bartsmeets86 at gmail.com (Bart Smeets)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 22:39:44 +0200
Subject: easy_install: unresolved external symbol
Message-ID: <2119ee90908031339o71e19624qa815241b446d739d@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I keep getting errors when trying to use easy_install to install bbfreeze or
cxfreeze (same errors).
This is the output:
http://pastebin.com/m65ba474d


The error message unresolved external symbol keeps popping up. I have no
idea how to solve this.
Can anyone give me a hint?

Thanks in advance
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From wells at submute.net  Mon Aug  3 16:47:23 2009
From: wells at submute.net (Wells Oliver)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 15:47:23 -0500
Subject: Ordering of dict keys & values
Message-ID: <3f1a902d0908031347g6e5dbbb7v832b0abc924a020@mail.gmail.com>

I understand that the keys in a dictionary are ordered not randomly but
something practically close to it, but if I create a SQL query like so:

query = 'INSERT INTO Batting (%s) VALUES(%s)' % (','.join(stats.keys()),
','.join(stats.values()))

Can I at least rely on the value being in the same index as its
corresponding key?

-- 
Wells Oliver
wells at submute.net
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From dciphercomputing at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 16:55:13 2009
From: dciphercomputing at gmail.com (Simon)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 13:55:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Newbie Question regarding __init__()
References: 
	
	
	 
	
	<6ccf5dbe-4b71-4159-88bb-c6a14aa785a9@k26g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <01bcf8b8-687c-4bf4-acbb-b059a480d382@f33g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 2, 5:51?am, Dave Angel  wrote:
> Simon wrote:
> > Okay I will fix my code and include "self" and see what happens. ?I
> > know I tried that before and got another error which I suspect was
> > another newbie error.
>
> > The idea behind the init_Pre is that I can put custom code here to
> > customize the __init__ instead of creating a new subclass. ?This kind
> > of hook pattern allows you to flatten your inheritance hierarchy. ?I
> > can choose in the init_Pre method to execute code before the init_exec
> > (which contains the default __init__ code) and still execute the
> > init_Exec method or I can completely customize the entire __init__ by
> > returning False from init_Pre and prevent the init_Exec from being
> > called. ?I use this type of pattern with almost all my methods. ?In
> > this way I can create a less complicated inheritance chain but still
> > have have custom code when needed without sub-classing.
>
> > I am use to Visual FoxPro which where you can do
>
> > =is.init_Pre().And.This.init_Exec() and the result is discarded so
> > that is why it looks the way it does. ?In this form init_Exec has to
> > return a value. ?However, If self.init_Pre(): self.init_Exec() would
> > work the same and then I could avoid returning a value.
>
> > Thanks,
> > Simon
>
> > On Aug 1, 5:52 am, Dave Angel  wrote:
>
> >> Nat Williams wrote:
>
> >>> As MRAB described, ALL instance methods need to accept 'self' as a first
> >>> parameter, as that will be passed to them implicitly when they are called.
> >>> This includes __init__. ?The name 'self' is just a commonly accepted
> >>> convention for the name of the instance object passed to methods. ?You don't
> >>> have to call it that, but you really should.
>
> >>> Take a look athttp://docs.python.org/tutorial/classes.html#class-objects
> >>> It might help shed some light on how methods and instances work.
>
> >>> One other thing. ?I'm a little confused by the first line of
> >>> dcObject.__init__:
>
> >>> self.init_Pre() and self.init_Exec()
>
> >>> I suspect this does not do what you think it does. ?init_Pre and init_Exec
> >>> will both be called by this expression (unless init_Pre throws an exception,
> >>> of course). ?You're not getting anything here that you wouldn't by just
> >>> calling each method on a separate line, except just making it harder to
> >>> read.
>
> >> Read the doc-string for init_Pre() and for init_Exec(). ?The final
> >> version of init_Pre() will return False in some circumstances, and in
> >> those circumstances Simon doesn't want init_Exec() to be called. ?He's
> >> deliberately using the short-circuit evaluation of ?'and' ?to accomplish
> >> that.
>
> >>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 8:53 PM, Simon  wrote:
>
> >>>> Hi
>
> >>>> So should the dcObject class include the "self" as well since I have
> >>>> not defined an __init__ method in dcCursor?
>
> >>>> Simon
>
> >>>> --
> >>>>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
> >> Every one of those methods in both of those classes need a "self" first
> >> argument. ?As others have said, all instance methods need a 'self.'
>
> (Please don't top-post. ?You should put new responses at the end of
> quoted text, or sometimes inline if that's clearer.)
>
> I don't understand your comparison to Foxpro. ?read on.
>
> As your code was last posted, you don't need a return value from
> init_Exec() ?Every function that doesn't have an explicit return will
> return None. ?And None is interpreted as False in an "and" expression. ?
> If you had an "if" around the whole thing, then you'd care.
>
> DaveA

All I meant by the FoxPro comment was the idea of using the equal sign
without a variable to throw away the result.  Also in FoxPro there is
no such thing as automatically returning None.  If there is no
explicit return then True is returned.

Thanks I did not know that None is interpreted as False.

Simon



From no.email at please.post  Mon Aug  3 16:58:46 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 20:58:46 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: kw param question
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

In  Albert Hopkins  writes:

>On Mon, 2009-08-03 at 19:59 +0000, kj wrote:
>> 
>> I want to write a decorator that, among other things, returns a
>> function that has one additional keyword parameter, say foo=None.
>> 
>> When I try
>> 
>> def my_decorator(f):
>>     # blah, blah
>>     def wrapper(*p, foo=None, **kw):
>>         x = f(*p, **kw)
>>         if (foo):
>>             # blah, blah
>>         else
>>             # blah blah
>>     return wrapper 
>> 
>> ...i get a syntax error where it says "foo=None".  I get similar
>> errors with everything else I've tried.
>> 

>Not exactly sure what you're trying to do..

Yeah, I wasn't too clear.  I figured out how to do what I wanted
to do:

def my_decorator(f):
    # blah, blah
    def wrapper(*p, **kw):
        foo = kw.pop('force', None)
        x = f(*p, **kw)
        if (foo):
            # blah, blah
        else
            # blah blah
    return wrapper 

Now the definitions of the original functions do not include the
foo=None argument, but "actual" functions (i.e. the ones generated
by the decorator) all accept the optional foo parameter.  The only
remaining problem is how to document this...  I don't see how pydoc
could possibly figure this one out.  I guess this is sufficient
argument to abandon this idea.  Bummer.

kynn


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 17:04:12 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 14:04:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: iterate lines with regex
References: <75c8645a0908011239q54292379tb02ff4de364839af@mail.gmail.com> 
	 <4A771E94.70805@mrabarnett.plus.com> 
	
Message-ID: <463f3ea4-c8a4-405b-9eab-95a878684db0@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 3, 11:44?am, Robert Kern  wrote:
> On 2009-08-03 12:29, MRAB wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Robert Kern wrote:
> > [snip]
>
> >> for line in readThis:
> >> key_match = key.search(line)
> >> if key_match is not None:
> >> this_key = key_match.group(1)
> >> # ... do something with this_key
> >> map_match = map.search(line)
> >> if map_match is not None:
> >> this_map = map_match.group(1)
> >> # ... do something with this_map
> >> parcel_match = parcel.search(line)
> >> if parcel_match is not None:
> >> this_parcel = parcel_match.group(1)
> >> # ... do something with this_parcel
>
> > re.search and re.match will return a MatchObject if successful or None
> > if unsuccessful. A MatchObject is always true, so you can simplify to:
>
> > ...
> > if key_match:
> > this_key = key_match.group(1)
> > # ... do something with this_key
> > ...
>
> True, but I prefer to maintain a consistent style for None-testing regardless of
> whether or not I am sure the not-None type will have a suitable __nonzero__
> implementation.


There's one thing to keep in mind.

In the unknown future, it's possible that re.match could be changed to
return an object with a false value that contains some information
about the reason for failure, or partial match information, or
something like that.

If that happens, code like:

   if m:

will continue to work, while code like

   if m is not None:

will suddenly fail.

Granted, it's not likely to happen for regexps but it could happen in
similar situations in other places.  I am one of the biggest critics
of implicit boolean values, but given that Python has it, I think it
is best to adhere strongly idiomatic uses like regexps.


Carl Banks


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Mon Aug  3 17:04:53 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 14:04:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is python buffer overflow proof?
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 2 Aug, 15:50, Jizzai  wrote:

> Is a _pure_ python program buffer overflow proof?
>
> For example in C++ you can declare a char[9] to hold user input.
> If the user inputs 10+ chars a buffer overflow occurs.

Short answer: NO

Bounds checking on sequence types is a protection against buffer
overflow, but is certainly not sufficient.

The Python interpreter is written in C. Python extension modules are
written in C (or something similar). If you find an unprotected buffer
in this C code, you can possibly overflow this buffer. This can be
used for nasty things like corrupting the stack and injecting
malicious code. There is a reason why the Python sandbox (rexec and
Bastion modules) was disabled in Python 2.3.

IronPython and Jython provides better protection against buffer
overflow than CPython, as these interpreters are written in safer
languages (C# and Java). You thus get an extra layer of protection
between the Python code and the unsafe C (used in JVM and .NET
runtimes).






From no.email at please.post  Mon Aug  3 17:07:32 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 21:07:32 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: no-clobber dicts?
Message-ID: 





I use the term "no-clobber dict" to refer to a dictionary D with
the especial property that if K is in D, then

  D[K] = V

will raise an exception unless V == D[K].  In other words, D[K]
can be set if K doesn't exist already among D's keys, or if the
assigned value is equal to the current value of D[K].  All other
assignments to D[K] trigger an exception.

The idea here is to detect inconsistencies in the data.

This is a data structure I often need.  Before I re-invent the
wheel, I thought I'd ask: is it already available?

TIA!

kynn


From aurele.tux at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 17:11:20 2009
From: aurele.tux at gmail.com (aurelien)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 23:11:20 +0200
Subject: Hello to the community
Message-ID: <1249333880.7712.20.camel@r2d2>

Hello to the Python community !
I'm a totaly newbbie in this langage.
I hope i will learn a lot with you.
Thanks.
aurelien



From boris.arloff at yahoo.com  Mon Aug  3 17:25:06 2009
From: boris.arloff at yahoo.com (Boris Arloff)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 14:25:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Trying to get ABC to work
Message-ID: <358094.5069.qm@web65302.mail.ac2.yahoo.com>

Hi,
?
Looking for ideas on getting Abstract Base Classes to work as intended within a metaclass.
?
I was wondering if I could use an abc method within a metaclass to force a reimplementation when a class is instantiated from the metaclass.? It seems like I cannot do so.? I implemented the following test case:
?
import abc
class MetaExample(type):
? def __init__(cls, name, bases, ns):
??? setattr(cls, 'cls_meth', cls.cls_meth)??? # cls method as instance method
??? setattr(cls, 'cls_abc', cls.cls_abc)????????# abc cls method as instance method

?
? def cls_meth(cls):
??? print('Class method defined stub')

?
? @abc.abstractmethod
? def cls_abc(cls):
??? try:
????? print('Class-Abstract method defined stub')
??? except NotImplementedError, err:
????? print('Must implement cls_abc.')
??? except:
????? print('General exception at cls_abc method.')
?
Then I create class MyKlass from the metaclass and instantiate it as myklass:
MyKlass(object): __metaclass__ = MetaExample
myklass = MyKlass()
myklass.cls_meth()?? --> prints "Class method defined stub"
myklass.cls_abc()???? --> prints "Class-Abstract method defined stub"
?
I was hopping for myklass.cls_abc() to print "Must implement cls_abc."
?
However, this makes sense since?MyKlass implements from the metaclass the cls_abc method and?there will never be an abstraction?of this method.
?
Any ideas on how to get this done?? Any way I could define an abstract method within a metaclass and have it behave?with abstraction when the class is created off the metaclass?
?
I other words, I want to force an implementation of cls_abc() method when MyKlass(object): __metaclass__ = MetaExample is declared, or else get NotImplementedError exception.
?
Thanks,
Boris Arloff
? 


      
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From clp2 at rebertia.com  Mon Aug  3 17:25:18 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 14:25:18 -0700
Subject: Ordering of dict keys & values
In-Reply-To: <3f1a902d0908031347g6e5dbbb7v832b0abc924a020@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3f1a902d0908031347g6e5dbbb7v832b0abc924a020@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908031425i22fd02ffjde3e41a697eb1c30@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 1:47 PM, Wells Oliver wrote:
> I understand that the keys in a dictionary are ordered not randomly but
> something practically close to it, but if I create a SQL query like so:
>
> query = 'INSERT INTO Batting (%s) VALUES(%s)' % (','.join(stats.keys()),
> ','.join(stats.values()))
>
> Can I at least rely on the value being in the same index as its
> corresponding key?

Yes. Per http://docs.python.org/library/stdtypes.html#dict.items :
"""
Note: Keys and values are listed in an arbitrary order which is
non-random, varies across Python implementations, and depends on the
dictionary?s history of insertions and deletions. If items(), keys(),
values(), iteritems(), iterkeys(), and itervalues() are called with no
intervening modifications to the dictionary, the lists will directly
correspond. This allows the creation of (value, key) pairs using
zip(): pairs = zip(d.values(), d.keys()).
"""

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From Samnsparky at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 17:29:05 2009
From: Samnsparky at gmail.com (Sparky)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 14:29:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: WindowsError: exception: access violation writing 0x00000000
Message-ID: <73c6c4f5-a00b-4f95-a85d-0f257b2f001a@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

Hello! I am using cTypes on Windows to interface with a dll and I keep
getting an error when I execute this method:

def eDigitalIn(self, channel, idNum = None, demo = 0, readD=0):
        """
        Name: U12.eAnalogIn(channel, idNum = None, demo = 0, readD=0)
        Args: See section 4.4 of the User's Guide
        Desc: This is a simplified version of Counter. Reads & resets
the counter (CNT).
        """

        if idNum is None:
            idNum = self.id

        ljid = ctypes.c_long(idNum)
        state = ctypes.c_long(999)

        ecode = staticLib.ECount(ctypes.byref(ljid), demo, channel,
readD, ctypes.byref(state))

        if ecode != 0: raise LabJackException(ecode)
        if ljid == -1: raise LabJackException(-1, "LabJack not
found.")

        return {"idnum":ljid.value, "state":state.value}

Here is the error message:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
    device.eDigitalIn(0)
  File "C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Documents\Python
\LabJackPython_new\u12.py", line 118, in eDigitalIn
    ecode = staticLib.ECount(ctypes.byref(ljid), demo, channel, readD,
ctypes.byref(state))
WindowsError: exception: access violation writing 0x00000000

Here is the signature of the method (which is known to work with C++
programs):

long _stdcall EDigitalIn(long *idnum,
					   long demo,
					   long channel,
					   long readD,
					   long *state);

staticLib is declared with staticLib = ctypes.windll.LoadLibrary
("ljackuw").

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Sam


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 17:47:54 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 14:47:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: no-clobber dicts?
References: 
Message-ID: <28309a6c-f6f2-4f11-852f-6e3f570253e7@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 3, 4:07?pm, kj  wrote:
> I use the term "no-clobber dict" to refer to a dictionary D with
> the especial property that if K is in D, then
>
> ? D[K] = V
>
> will raise an exception unless V == D[K]. ?In other words, D[K]
> can be set if K doesn't exist already among D's keys, or if the
> assigned value is equal to the current value of D[K]. ?All other
> assignments to D[K] trigger an exception.
>
> The idea here is to detect inconsistencies in the data.
>
> This is a data structure I often need. ?Before I re-invent the
> wheel, I thought I'd ask: is it already available?
>
> TIA!
>
> kynn

Not sure if something like this already exists, but it would be
trivial to implement by overriding dict.__setitem__()

badda-bing baby!


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Mon Aug  3 18:00:14 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 15:00:14 -0700
Subject: no-clobber dicts?
In-Reply-To: <28309a6c-f6f2-4f11-852f-6e3f570253e7@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<28309a6c-f6f2-4f11-852f-6e3f570253e7@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908031500w23af3271y49ef3aab49a67695@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 2:47 PM, r wrote:
> On Aug 3, 4:07?pm, kj  wrote:
>> I use the term "no-clobber dict" to refer to a dictionary D with
>> the especial property that if K is in D, then
>>
>> ? D[K] = V
>>
>> will raise an exception unless V == D[K]. ?In other words, D[K]
>> can be set if K doesn't exist already among D's keys, or if the
>> assigned value is equal to the current value of D[K]. ?All other
>> assignments to D[K] trigger an exception.
>>
>> The idea here is to detect inconsistencies in the data.
>>
>> This is a data structure I often need. ?Before I re-invent the
>> wheel, I thought I'd ask: is it already available?
>>
>> TIA!
>>
>> kynn
>
> Not sure if something like this already exists, but it would be
> trivial to implement by overriding dict.__setitem__()

That is, if you don't care about .update() not preserving the
invariant. Otherwise, one will need to look at the UserDict module.

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From ram.rachum at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 18:03:31 2009
From: ram.rachum at gmail.com (cool-RR)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 15:03:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Announcing PythonTurtle
References: 
	
	<729a6652-cdfa-49b8-8013-6d7861b8020e@d4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 3, 11:35?pm, r  wrote:
> Hello,
> I wanted to announce that I have just released my little side
> project,
> PythonTurtle.
> [snip]
>
> I think it looks great --haven't download the source yet-- but i
> really like the screenshot. This will be more "inviting" to the new,
> inexperianced users. I like the idea of packaging up the command
> prompt and the canvas into one very friendly interface. ?I especially
> like that you are using a "real" turtle.
>
> I can remember the first time i used turtle (in python stdlib) and i
> kept saying to myself...
>
> ? ? "Were the heck is this damn turtle?!?!" (>_<)
>
> :-)

Thanks for the compliments; The things you mentioned you liked are all
things that I was specifically thinking about when I decided to make
PythonTurtle. Well, maybe minus the screenshot :)


From victorsubervi at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 18:05:13 2009
From: victorsubervi at gmail.com (Victor Subervi)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 18:05:13 -0400
Subject: RE Question
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4dc0cfea0908021422x43972682ra58c53a2a43351ee@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <4dc0cfea0908031505t571b8d4cqa28579ae14c9209a@mail.gmail.com>

That worked. Thank you again :)
Victor

On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 12:13 AM, Gabriel Genellina
wrote:

> En Sun, 02 Aug 2009 18:22:20 -0300, Victor Subervi <
> victorsubervi at gmail.com> escribi?:
>
>
>  How do I search and replace something like this:
>> aLine = re.sub('[<]?[p]?[>]?> a-zA-Z0-9"\'=:]*>[<]?[b]?[>]?', '', aLine)
>> where RE *only* looks for the possibility of "
" at the beginning of the
>> string; that is, not the individual components as I have it coded above,
>> but
>> the entire 3-character block?
>>
>
> An example would make it more clear; I think you want to match either
> "
" is
> optional. Use a normal group or a non-capturing group:
> r'(
)?
> That said, using regular expressions to parse HTML or XML is terribly
> fragile; I'd use a specific tool (like BeautifulSoup, ElementTree, or lxml)
>
> --
> Gabriel Genellina
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From darkneter at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 18:14:41 2009
From: darkneter at gmail.com (NighterNet)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 15:14:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: socket policy flash help
References: <04e26f53-5f51-476d-823e-47bfeed9b2a8@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	
	<8bede581-f260-4c69-abf0-1e8071380b76@z4g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<7e6cdc26-bcc0-4503-b7b4-9ad80b1041f6@v37g2000prg.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 2, 12:25?pm, Piet van Oostrum  wrote:
> >>>>> NighterNet  (N) wrote:
> >N> Here the full code.
> >N> flashpolicy.xml
> >N> [[[
> >N> 
> >N> 
> >N> ? ?
> >N> 
> >N> ]]]
> >N> flashpolicytest_server3x.py
> >N> [[[
> >N> #!/usr/local/bin/python
> >N> '''
> >N> Still under testing...
> >N> python version 3.x.x
> >N> '''
> >N> importsocket
> >N> import threading
> >N> import sys
> >N> import os
> >N> file_name = 'flashpolicy.xml'
> >N> fh = open(file_name, "r")
> >N> policy = fh.read(10001)
>
> You never use that variable.
>
>
>
> >N> host = ''; #out side network
> >N> port = 5555;
> >N> print ("# ?------------- Init... ------------- ?#");
> >N> class ClientThread (threading.Thread):
> >N> ? ? ? global policy;
> >N> ? ? ? allClients = [];
> >N> ? ? ? vlock = threading.Lock();
> >N> ? ? ? id = 0 # next available thread number
> >N> ? ? ? def __init__(self,clientSocket):
> >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? threading.Thread.__init__(self)
> >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? self.sockfd = clientSocket; #socketclient
> >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? self.name = '';
> >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ClientThread.id += 1
> >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? self.id = ClientThread.id
> >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? self.nickName = '';
> >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? self.allClients.append(self.sockfd);
> >N> ? ? ? def sendAll(self,buff):
> >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? for index,clientSock in enumerate(self.allClients):
> >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? try:
> >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? clientSock.send(buff);
>
> There is no guarantee that send will indeed transmit all of buff. It is
> better to use clientSock.sendall(buff). Or you should check the return
> value of send and check if it is equal to the length of buff. And repeat
> if not. (But sendall is easier).
>
> Also don't use ; at the end of the statement. It's not pythonic.
>
> >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? except (socket.error):
> >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print ('errorsocket%s\n',index,"| clean");
> >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? clientSock.close()
> >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? del self.allClients[index]
> >N> ? ? ? def run(self):
> >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? while True:
> >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? buff = self.sockfd.recv(1028);
>
> There is no guarantee that recv will get the whole message. It may even
> get as little as 1 byte. So you should check the return value of recv.
> The official way is to keep reading until you have enough input or until
> you hit end of file.
>
> >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? if not buff:
> >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print ("connect close...(client side)");
> >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? self.sockfd.close();
> >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? break #incase it loop infinite
> >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? if str(buff) == str("b\'\\x00\'"):
>
> What you check here is whether buff contains the byte sequence that starts with a
> b, then a ' ... and ending with the 5 bytes \ x 0 0 ' which is wrong.
>
> Actually it should be:
>
> if buff == b\'\x00':
> or
> if buff == b\'\0':
>
> >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print ('policy FOUND >>> sending...')
> >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print(buff)
> >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? b = b' >N> from domain=\"*\" to-ports=\"*\" />'
> >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print (b)
> >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? self.sockfd.send(b);
> >N> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? self.sockfd.sendall(b);
>
> Only self.sockfd.sendall; delete the line with self.sockfd.send(b). And
> remove the semicolons for esthetical reasons.
>
> >N> Some odd reason I can't send flash policy from python to flashsocket
> >N> to agrees with the connection.
>
> --
> Piet van Oostrum 
> URL:http://pietvanoostrum.com[PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
> Private email: p... at vanoostrum.org

thanks it help. I was not sure about the format most the time.


From nagle at animats.com  Mon Aug  3 18:19:22 2009
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 15:19:22 -0700
Subject: Obtaining Python version
Message-ID: <4a776184$0$1611$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

This works, but it seems too cute:

 >>> pyver = map(int,sys.version.split()[0].split('.'))
 >>> print(pyver)
[2, 6, 1]

Is it guaranteed that the Python version string will be in a form
suitable for that?  In other words, does "sys.version" begin

N.N.N other stuff

in all versions, and will it stay that way?  Are there ever
non-numeric versions, like "3.2.rc1"?

				John Nagle


From rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk  Mon Aug  3 18:24:04 2009
From: rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk (Rhodri James)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 23:24:04 +0100
Subject: fast video encoding
In-Reply-To: <0c8cfac7-0a70-4e1f-90ec-19e9c45cae89@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: <570097d0-2b2a-4705-892f-0d0154d69d63@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<0c8cfac7-0a70-4e1f-90ec-19e9c45cae89@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 02 Aug 2009 03:44:17 +0100, sturlamolden   
wrote:

> On 29 Jul, 10:14, gregorth  wrote:
>
>> for a scientific application I need to save a video stream to disc for
>> further post processing.
>
> I have worked a bit on this as well. There are two things that make
> scientific applications different form common video encoding:
>
> First, a scientific video stream is often very different from a
> 'movie': There are usually very little 'movement'. For example, when I
> have filmed a mouse swimming in a water maze (a pool of milky white
> water), the only thing that moves is the rat. So I could achieve
> excellent compression just by saving the pixels that changed.

These are referred to as P-frames; any encoder that gets further than
the most basic version of any video protocol will do this for you.
Unfortunately, water pixels change a lot from frame to frame, even
when the camera is static, so it doesn't gain you as much as you might
hope in cases like you mention.

> Second, scientific data should be stored with lossless compression if
> possible.

If data storage is no object, be my guest.  Of course, you're going to
have to write your own codecs for this, since pretty much every video
protocol in existence is lossy.

In reality, lossless compression isn't necessary.  As long as your
quantisation isn't completely up the spout, the added precision isn't
actually going to gain you anything unless you're working in very
specialised situations; even then, if it does make a significant
difference then you needed greater resolution anyway.

-- 
Rhodri James *-* Wildebeest Herder to the Masses


From andre.roberge at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 18:32:10 2009
From: andre.roberge at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9?=)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 15:32:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Obtaining Python version
References: <4a776184$0$1611$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <680573fa-6d5a-46eb-b48e-461841b8d887@c1g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 3, 7:19?pm, John Nagle  wrote:
> This works, but it seems too cute:
>
> ?>>> pyver = map(int,sys.version.split()[0].split('.'))
> ?>>> print(pyver)
> [2, 6, 1]
>

You can also do:

>>> import sys
>>> sys.version_info
(2, 5, 2, 'final', 0)

or
>>> sys.version_info[:3]
(2, 5, 2)

> Is it guaranteed that the Python version string will be in a form
> suitable for that? ?In other words, does "sys.version" begin
>
> N.N.N other stuff
>
> in all versions, and will it stay that way? ?Are there ever
> non-numeric versions, like "3.2.rc1"?
>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? John Nagle

I strongly suspect that sys.version_info would never change...

Andr?


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 18:34:53 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 15:34:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Announcing PythonTurtle
References: 
	
	<729a6652-cdfa-49b8-8013-6d7861b8020e@d4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	 
	
Message-ID: <491ed6e7-08dd-4b26-acb8-38da475491ed@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 3, 5:03?pm, cool-RR  wrote:
[snip]
> Thanks for the compliments; The things you mentioned you liked are all
> things that I was specifically thinking about when I decided to make
> PythonTurtle. Well, maybe minus the screenshot :)

I *may* get roasted for this comment, but i think a turtle module
along the lines of what you have here would better serve the stdlib.
The current implementation is great, but the whole purpose of turtle
is to help children or non-programmers get a feel of the language in a
very, very, simple and fun way. Your app is presented in much the same
way as any over-the-counter windows app any non-programmer has seen
before making them *feel* a little more comfortable.

[warning wild speculations ahead!!]
I just guessing here, but i'll bet many of these *noobs* have found
the current turtle just a wee-bit more advanced than they can handle,
and *some* have been scared off. I would also venture to say a key-map
of sorts that is available thru the help menu where one could push an
"Up" button, or a "rotate" button, and have the proper command
inserted in the prompt, and then have the command execute, may also
help make the connections here, a sort of *real* Visual Basic
programming -- sorry Microsoft :P




From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Mon Aug  3 18:35:50 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 00:35:50 +0200
Subject: Obtaining Python version
In-Reply-To: <4a776184$0$1611$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
References: <4a776184$0$1611$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: 

04-08-2009 o 00:19:22 John Nagle  wrote:

> This works, but it seems too cute:
>
>  >>> pyver = map(int,sys.version.split()[0].split('.'))
>  >>> print(pyver)
> [2, 6, 1]
>
> Is it guaranteed that the Python version string will be in a form
> suitable for that?  In other words, does "sys.version" begin
>
> N.N.N other stuff
>
> in all versions, and will it stay that way?  Are there ever
> non-numeric versions, like "3.2.rc1"?

Why not to use:

sys.version_info

"A tuple containing the five components of the version number:
major, minor, micro, releaselevel, and serial. All values except
releaselevel are integers; the release level is 'alpha', 'beta',
'candidate', or 'final'. The version_info value corresponding to
the Python version 2.0 is (2, 0, 0, 'final', 0)."

http://docs.python.org/library/sys.html#sys.version_info

Cheers,
*j
-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From keith at nekotaku.com  Mon Aug  3 18:54:15 2009
From: keith at nekotaku.com (KB)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 15:54:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Problem with reading CSV file from URL, last record truncated.
Message-ID: <0996356d-ee7d-4a5e-9c0c-9f9502c01892@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I am trying to download from a URL, a CSV using the following:

import re
import urllib, urllib2, cookielib
import mechanize
import csv
import numpy
import os


def return_ranking():

	cj = mechanize.MSIECookieJar(delayload=True)
	cj.load_from_registry()  # finds cookie index file from registry

	# set things up for cookies



	opener = urllib2.build_opener(urllib2.HTTPCookieProcessor(cj))

	urllib2.install_opener(opener)

	reply = opener.open('http://ichart.finance.yahoo.com/table.csv?
s=CSCO&a=00&b=01&c=2009&d=01&e=2&f=2010&g=d&ignore=.csv').read()

	fout=open('csco.csv','wb')
	fout.write(reply)
	fout.close

	fin=open('csco.csv','rb')
	table = csv.reader(fin)
	fin.close

	for row in table:
		print row


return_ranking()

I need to use cookies etc (mechanize/urllib2) for a different, more
complex URL but since it wasn't working, I went back to a simple Yahoo
example (above) which I have working with urllib (not urllib2).

The behaviour I am seeing is that the last record is being truncated:

(sample output)
['2009-04-08', '17.29', '17.33', '16.94', '17.13', '45389100',
'17.13']
['2009-04-07', '17.20', '17.25', '16.58', '16.85', '59902600',
'16.85']
['200']

A friend said I should do the above writing out to a file and have
csvreader read in the file, but as you can see, to no avail!

Any help greatly appreciated! Note that urllib.urlretrieve works
perfectly but I give up the ability to import cookies from my registry
which is all important (AFAIK anyway mechanize requires urllib2).

Any help greatly appreciated.


From keith at nekotaku.com  Mon Aug  3 19:21:02 2009
From: keith at nekotaku.com (KB)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 16:21:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Problem with reading CSV file from URL, last record truncated.
References: <0996356d-ee7d-4a5e-9c0c-9f9502c01892@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 3, 3:54?pm, KB  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am trying to download from a URL, a CSV using the following:
>
> import re
> import urllib, urllib2, cookielib
> import mechanize
> import csv
> import numpy
> import os
>
> def return_ranking():
>
> ? ? ? ? cj = mechanize.MSIECookieJar(delayload=True)
> ? ? ? ? cj.load_from_registry() ?# finds cookie index file from registry
>
> ? ? ? ? # set things up for cookies
>
> ? ? ? ? opener = urllib2.build_opener(urllib2.HTTPCookieProcessor(cj))
>
> ? ? ? ? urllib2.install_opener(opener)
>
> ? ? ? ? reply = opener.open('http://ichart.finance.yahoo.com/table.csv?
> s=CSCO&a=00&b=01&c=2009&d=01&e=2&f=2010&g=d&ignore=.csv').read()
>
> ? ? ? ? fout=open('csco.csv','wb')
> ? ? ? ? fout.write(reply)
> ? ? ? ? fout.close
>

>
> return_ranking()
>
> I need to use cookies etc (mechanize/urllib2) for a different, more
> complex URL but since it wasn't working, I went back to a simple Yahoo
> example (above) which I have working with urllib (not urllib2).
>
> The behaviour I am seeing is that the last record is being truncated:
>
> (sample output)
> ['2009-04-08', '17.29', '17.33', '16.94', '17.13', '45389100',
> '17.13']
> ['2009-04-07', '17.20', '17.25', '16.58', '16.85', '59902600',
> '16.85']
> ['200']
>
> A friend said I should do the above writing out to a file and have
> csvreader read in the file, but as you can see, to no avail!
>
> Any help greatly appreciated! Note that urllib.urlretrieve works
> perfectly but I give up the ability to import cookies from my registry
> which is all important (AFAIK anyway mechanize requires urllib2).
>
> Any help greatly appreciated.

By moving:
>         fin=open('csco.csv','rb')
>         table = csv.reader(fin)
>         fin.close
>
>         for row in table:
>                 print row

outside of the routine and into the mainline, it works like a charm.

Would like to know why though, so would love to hear any clues!



From piet at cs.uu.nl  Mon Aug  3 19:26:58 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 01:26:58 +0200
Subject: Executing remote command with paramiko
References: 
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Hussein B  (HB) wrote:

>HB> Hey,
>HB> I'm trying to run a sudo guarded command over SSH using paramiko
>HB> +++++++++++++++++++
>HB> s = paramiko.SSHClient()
>HB> s.load_system_host_keys()
>HB> s.connect(hostname, port, username, passwd)
>HB> stdin, stdout, stderr = s.exec_command('sudo -s')
>HB> stdin.write('password\n')
>HB> stdin.flush()
>HB> print 'Flushing'
>HB> stdin, stdout, stderr = s.exec_command('harvester')
>HB> print stdout.read()
>HB> s.close()
>HB> +++++++++++++++++++
>HB> It seems to me that the sudo -s isn't getting executed at all.
>HB> I commented the sudo -s code lines and no error is shown.
>HB> Thanks for help and time.

Your command 'harvester' is not run in the sudo shell, but separately in
a new session. so it will run under 'username', not under 'root'.

You could use 
    stdin, stdout, stderr = s.exec_command('sudo harvester')
instead.

Or use the lower-level constructs:

s = paramiko.SSHClient()
s.load_system_host_keys()
s.connect(hostname, port, username, password)
t = s.get_transport()
chan = t.open_session()
chan.exec_command('sudo -s')

print 'writing password'
chan.send(password + '\n')

print 'write command'
chan.send('whoami\n')
print "try to read"
print chan.recv(9999)

For more control you can use chan.recv_ready() to see if output is available.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Mon Aug  3 19:35:12 2009
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (greg)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 11:35:12 +1200
Subject: Help understanding the decisions *behind* python?
In-Reply-To: <4a7715ff$0$1641$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
References: 	<988a5f49-7907-4351-bfd0-7bb05e821795@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	
	<4a7715ff$0$1641$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <7dpagaF2cu16mU1@mid.individual.net>

John Nagle wrote:
> Mesa used tuples for subroutine arguments in a very straightforward
> way.  Every function took one tuple as an argument
> 
>    Python doesn't go that far.

I believe that a very early version of Python did do
something like that, but it was found to be a bad idea,
because there was an ambiguity between multiple args and
a single arg that happened to be a tuple.

This was before keyword arguments existed -- they would
have been hard to incorporate into the old scheme.

-- 
Greg


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 19:39:25 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 16:39:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: no-clobber dicts?
References: 
	<28309a6c-f6f2-4f11-852f-6e3f570253e7@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <1d95f706-71f4-487e-a920-a31643b76c10@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 3, 5:00?pm, Chris Rebert  wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 2:47 PM, r wrote:
[snip]
> > Not sure if something like this already exists, but it would be
> > trivial to implement by overriding dict.__setitem__()
>
> That is, if you don't care about .update() not preserving the
> invariant. Otherwise, one will need to look at the UserDict module.
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --http://blog.rebertia.com

Good catch Chris. However since the OP said this was for testing
purposes,  i just *assumed* he would be smart enough *not* to call
update() on the dict at hand ;-). But sometimes i need to be protected
from myself too -- at least thats what my therapist keeps telling
me :-)





From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Mon Aug  3 19:40:06 2009
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (greg)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 11:40:06 +1200
Subject: fast video encoding
In-Reply-To: 
References: <570097d0-2b2a-4705-892f-0d0154d69d63@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>	<0c8cfac7-0a70-4e1f-90ec-19e9c45cae89@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <7dpapgF2ckro4U1@mid.individual.net>

Rhodri James wrote:

> Unfortunately, water pixels change a lot from frame to frame, even
> when the camera is static, so it doesn't gain you as much as you might
> hope in cases like you mention.

In the case mentioned, the water is of no interest, so it
could be removed altogether by a suitable custom compressor.

-- 
Greg


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Aug  3 19:47:23 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 00:47:23 +0100
Subject: Problem with reading CSV file from URL, last record truncated.
In-Reply-To: 
References: <0996356d-ee7d-4a5e-9c0c-9f9502c01892@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4A77770B.2070008@mrabarnett.plus.com>

KB wrote:
> On Aug 3, 3:54 pm, KB  wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am trying to download from a URL, a CSV using the following:
>>
>> import re
>> import urllib, urllib2, cookielib
>> import mechanize
>> import csv
>> import numpy
>> import os
>>
>> def return_ranking():
>>
>>         cj = mechanize.MSIECookieJar(delayload=True)
>>         cj.load_from_registry()  # finds cookie index file from registry
>>
>>         # set things up for cookies
>>
>>         opener = urllib2.build_opener(urllib2.HTTPCookieProcessor(cj))
>>
>>         urllib2.install_opener(opener)
>>
>>         reply = opener.open('http://ichart.finance.yahoo.com/table.csv?
>> s=CSCO&a=00&b=01&c=2009&d=01&e=2&f=2010&g=d&ignore=.csv').read()
>>
>>         fout=open('csco.csv','wb')
>>         fout.write(reply)
>>         fout.close

This should be:

          fout.close()

>>
> 
>> return_ranking()
>>
[snip]

> By moving:
>>         fin=open('csco.csv','rb')
>>         table = csv.reader(fin)
>>         fin.close

This should be:

          fin.close()

>>
>>         for row in table:
>>                 print row
> 
> outside of the routine and into the mainline, it works like a charm.
> 
> Would like to know why though, so would love to hear any clues!
> 
The parentheses aren't optional; without them you're just referring to
the method, not calling it.

Because you weren't closing the file the text wasn't all written to
disk. When it returns from return_ranking() there's no longer any
reference to 'fout', so the file object is available for collection by
the garbage collector. When the file object is collected it writes the
remaining text to disk. In CPython the file object is collected as soon
as there's no reference to it, but in other implementations that might
not be the case.


From mensanator at aol.com  Mon Aug  3 20:32:03 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 17:32:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Announcing PythonTurtle
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 3, 8:18?am, cool-RR  wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I wanted to announce that I have just released my little side project,
> PythonTurtle.
> Here is its website:http://pythonturtle.com
>
> Its goal is to be the lowest-threshold way to learn (or teach) Python.
> You can read more about it and download it on the website.

I dunno, looks kind of worthless to me.

http://www.mensanator.com/mensanator/PythonTurtle/PythonTurtle.htm

>
> Ram.



From van.lindberg at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 20:42:14 2009
From: van.lindberg at gmail.com (VanL)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 19:42:14 -0500
Subject: Extracting text from html
Message-ID: 

Hello all,

Does anyone know of a good tool to get a minimally-formatted text 
document out of an html document? Something along the lines of what you 
would get with a lynx -dump, but in Python.

I have lxml installed, so I can roll my own if I need to. However, this 
seemed like the sort of thing that someone would have solved already.

Thanks,

Van



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Mon Aug  3 20:42:47 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 21:42:47 -0300
Subject: Python configuration question when python scripts are executed
	using Appweb as web server.
References: 
Message-ID: 

En Mon, 03 Aug 2009 11:04:07 -0300, IronyOfLife   
escribi?:

> I have installed python 2.6.2 in windows xp professional machine. I
> have set the following environment variables -- PYTHONPATH. It points
> to following windows folders: python root folder, the lib folder and
> lib-tk folder.

Why? Did you read it somewhere? Usually there is no need to set the  
PYTHONPATH variable at all; remove it.

> I have configured IIS to execute python scripts.
>
> I do not have any issues executing python scripts from the python
> interpreter window or from the browser using IIS as the web server.

Try again after PYTHONPATH is removed, and make sure you can import all  
the required modules from the Python console. Only then try to run the cgi  
scripts.

> However, when I use the open source Appweb web browser to execute
> python scripts. It is able to execute only simple script without
> issues. [...]However I am not able to execute python scripts that  
> contain import
> statements. I need to point out here that i do not have issue with
> using os or sys packages. When I tried to execute the sample client
> script that came with the gnutls wrapper for python, I got error. I
> narrowed it down to the "from ... import" line in the example.
>
> from gnutls.crypto import *
> from gnutls.connection import *

Check that the above lines work fine from inside the Python console.
If not, something went wrong when you installed the gnutls Python package.

> Next step, in order to debug, I used the module finder to see what is
> happening. To being with I used the module finder to find out the
> modules loaded for the simple script hello.py.

Debugging cgi scripts isn't easy sometimes; try adding this line at the  
start of your script:

import cgitb;cgitb.enable()

You should get a nicely formatted stack trace whenever an exception is  
raised. If you get an HTTP error instead (like 500 Internal Server Error)  
it's likely a syntax error, you must fix it before continuing.
Then, you may find that modulefinder is no more needed.

> import pdb
> pdb.set_trace()

pdb cannot work inside a CGI script; remove that.

> Once again, let me stress that this issue is happening only when I use
> appweb as the web server.

I don't know appweb, but if you first make sure the script works from the  
command line, it should be much easier to make it work in the web server.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Mon Aug  3 21:10:57 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 22:10:57 -0300
Subject: easy_install: unresolved external symbol
References: <2119ee90908031339o71e19624qa815241b446d739d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

En Mon, 03 Aug 2009 17:39:44 -0300, Bart Smeets   
escribi?:

> I keep getting errors when trying to use easy_install to install  
> bbfreeze or
> cxfreeze (same errors).
> This is the output:
> http://pastebin.com/m65ba474d

Can't you use the binary packages?

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Mon Aug  3 21:18:08 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 22:18:08 -0300
Subject: Ordering of dict keys & values
References: <3f1a902d0908031347g6e5dbbb7v832b0abc924a020@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

En Mon, 03 Aug 2009 17:47:23 -0300, Wells Oliver   
escribi?:

> I understand that the keys in a dictionary are ordered not randomly but
> something practically close to it, but if I create a SQL query like so:
>
> query = 'INSERT INTO Batting (%s) VALUES(%s)' % (','.join(stats.keys()),
> ','.join(stats.values()))
>
> Can I at least rely on the value being in the same index as its
> corresponding key?

You already got the answer you wanted, but note that building a SQL  
statement that way is unsafe [1]. I prefer this way:

query= 'INSERT INTO Batting (%s) VALUES(%s)' % (
   ','.join(stats.keys()),
   ','.join(['?']*len(stats)))
cursor.execute(query, stats.values())

[1] If you don't know what "SQL injection" means, see http://xkcd.com/327/

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Mon Aug  3 21:39:50 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 22:39:50 -0300
Subject: Is python buffer overflow proof?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

En Mon, 03 Aug 2009 18:04:53 -0300, sturlamolden   
escribi?:

> On 2 Aug, 15:50, Jizzai  wrote:
>
>> Is a _pure_ python program buffer overflow proof?
>>
>> For example in C++ you can declare a char[9] to hold user input.
>> If the user inputs 10+ chars a buffer overflow occurs.
>
> Short answer: NO
>
> Bounds checking on sequence types is a protection against buffer
> overflow, but is certainly not sufficient.
>
> The Python interpreter is written in C. Python extension modules are
> written in C (or something similar). If you find an unprotected buffer
> in this C code, you can possibly overflow this buffer. This can be
> used for nasty things like corrupting the stack and injecting
> malicious code. There is a reason why the Python sandbox (rexec and
> Bastion modules) was disabled in Python 2.3.

(I think the reason rexec and bastion were disabled has nothing to do with  
the possibility of buffer overflows in extension modules)

> IronPython and Jython provides better protection against buffer
> overflow than CPython, as these interpreters are written in safer
> languages (C# and Java). You thus get an extra layer of protection
> between the Python code and the unsafe C (used in JVM and .NET
> runtimes).

I disagree. You've just translated the responsability to check for buffer  
overflows, from the Python VM, to the Java VM or the .Net runtime (and all  
three suffered from buffer overruns and other problems in some way or  
another). Also, Python extensions written in C are equivalent to using JNI  
in Java or unmanaged code in C#: all three are likely to have hidden  
problems.
It's always the same story: a *language* may declare that such things are  
impossible, but a particular *implementation* may have bugs and fail to  
comply with the specification.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From cocobear.cn at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 21:44:49 2009
From: cocobear.cn at gmail.com (cocobear)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 18:44:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: merge two png pic
References: 
	 
	
Message-ID: <006617e3-6630-4f04-bff1-99c58dbb6cb5@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>

On Jul 31, 2:52?pm, Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
> cocobear wrote:
> > On Jul 29, 9:20 am, cocobear  wrote:
> >> Thistwopngfile has their own palette
>
> >> >>> im1.mode
> >> 'P'
> >> >>> im.mode
> >> 'P'
> >> >>> im.getpalette == im1.getpalette
>
> >> False
>
> >> I can use this code tomergetwopngpictogether:
>
> >> Map = Image.new("RGB", (x,y))
> >> Map.paste(im, box)
> >> Map.paste(im1,box)
>
> >> Map = Map.convert("L", optimize=True, palette=Image.ADAPTIVE)
>
> >> But if thetwopngpicis too big , or if I have tomergemorepic
> >> together, I will get MemoryError:
>
> >> >>> Image.new("RGB",(44544,38656))
>
> As a workaround you could split the image into tiles that fit into your
> machine's RAM. Or you could try to do the rendering on a 64-bit system.
> You'll need at least
>
> >>> 3*44544*38656./(2**30)
>
> 4.8109130859375
>
> 5 gigabytes for the target image plus memory for the biggest source image.
> Alternatively there are probably tools that can keep parts of the image on
> disk (imagemagick, maybe? you'll have to check yourself or ask in a
> specialized forum). As a last resort you should be able to write such a tool
> yourself. I don't know how hard it would be to generate the PNG, but the RGB
> pasting should be trivial.
>

Thanks for you reply.

    Map = Image.new("RGB", ((x2-x1+1)*256, (y2-y1+1)*256))
    for x in range(x1,x2+1):
        for y in range(y1,y2+1):
            #print x,y
            filename = "v=cn1.11&hl=zh-CN&x=%d&y=%d&z=%d&s=Galile" %
(x,y,z)
           #
            box = ((x-x1)*256, (y-y1)*256, (x-x1)*256+256, (y-y1)
*256+256)
            #print box
            im = Image.open(filename+".png")
            Map.paste(im, box)

    temp = "temp_map.png"
    Map.save(temp)
    del Map
    print "converting"
    Map = Image.open(temp)
    Map = Map.convert("P", palette=Image.ADAPTIVE)

Now I use code above, the problem is when I create a RGB image, I need
four times spaces then a 'P' mode image.

Can I directly create a 'P' mode image, and paste those images on?
(NOTICE: this small image has different palette)


> >> Traceback (most recent call last):
> >> File "", line 1, in 
> >> File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/PIL/Image.py", line 1710, in
> >> new
> >> return Image()._new(core.fill(mode, size, color))
> >> MemoryError
>
> >> How can I directlymergetwopicto a ?P' modepngwith palette.
>
> > Nobody replied.
>
> What do you want to do with such a big image? You will run into the same
> limitation when you are trying to display it.
>

I want to download a map from google map with high precision


> Peter



From afriere at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Aug  3 21:53:02 2009
From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 18:53:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Announcing PythonTurtle
References: 
	
	<729a6652-cdfa-49b8-8013-6d7861b8020e@d4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <1d144bd0-8829-4449-8935-60bf6f66a5d6@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 4, 6:35?am, r  wrote:

[snip]

>
> I can remember the first time i used turtle (in python stdlib) and i
> kept saying to myself...
>
> ? ? "Were the heck is this damn turtle?!?!" (>_<)
>
> :-)

In Python2.6, try this:
>>> turtle.shape('turtle')



From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Mon Aug  3 22:15:03 2009
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 22:15:03 -0400
Subject: [OT] Re: Ordering of dict keys & values
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3f1a902d0908031347g6e5dbbb7v832b0abc924a020@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 9:18 PM, Gabriel Genellina
 wrote:
>
> [1] If you don't know what "SQL injection" means, see http://xkcd.com/327/

I love how XKCD is one of the preferred learning tools (along with
Wikipeida) for people on this list. I think Randall Munroe should make
a comic about it. :)


From justin.mailinglists at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 22:32:22 2009
From: justin.mailinglists at gmail.com (Justin Ezequiel)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 19:32:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Extracting text from html
References: 
Message-ID: <44201d0e-87fe-457e-a7e2-26b2c5027d76@b25g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

http://tinyurl.com/kpoweq


From fft1976 at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 22:51:36 2009
From: fft1976 at gmail.com (fft1976)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 19:51:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: RUBY vs COMMON LISP
References: <389503e4-eb6a-48c2-af76-cebe1dc7141c@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	 
	 
	<87my6ic1k5.fsf@galatea.local>
	<1a40c8fe-83e4-4c50-90e2-b72ef86a6ac4@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	 
	<87hbwp9umw.fsf@galatea.local>
Message-ID: <04aef600-150d-44fa-a0cd-d88a4b17e836@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 3, 1:19?am, p... at informatimago.com (Pascal J. Bourguignon)
wrote:
> fft1976  writes:
> > By the way, here is in 1 line of BF, a complete BF reader that is able
> > to
> > read all the BF syntax needed to write it:
>
> > ,+[-.,+]
>
> > Here's how to try it:
>
> > $ sudo apt-get install bf
> > $ cat > reader.bf
> > ,+[-.,+]
> > $ bf reader.bf < reader.bf
>
> > Your 150 lines don't look very impressive now, do they?
>
> > Ruby < Lisp <<< BF!
>
> I specified a syntactic reader. ?Not just a reader.

It is a syntactic reader. BF's syntax is just a sequence of
characters. If you throw in illegal characters, the behavior is
"undefined". Lisp's syntax is more complicated: it's a tree of
identifiers (in its idealized form; of course, Common Lisp had to fuck
it up). Ruby's and Python's syntaxes are even more complicated.

The above was to illustrate the wrongness of your argument that the
length of a self-parser determines the usefulness of the language.
Hell, I know that BF can be a little *too* awesome.

By the way, Python's syntax is much better than Ruby's. Dollar signs
in front of variables? WTF were the designers smoking? That's like
Perl! Haven't you learned your lesson?

Python's syntax might even be better than Lisp's, but it's certainly
harder to parse.


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 23:00:08 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 20:00:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Seeding the rand() Generator
References: 
	 
	
	
	
Message-ID: <0b7c702f-5775-418e-8fc5-2f9df7487867@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 3, 8:12?pm, Fred Atkinson  wrote:
> On Sun, 2 Aug 2009 17:00:40 -0700 (PDT), Carl Banks
>
>  wrote:
>
> ? ? ? ? I appreciate the response. ?
>
> ? ? ? ? I am executing a statement to retrieve one record at random. ?
>
> ? ? ? ? An example would be: SELECT first, second, third, fourth,
> fifth, sixth from sometable order by rand() limit 1
>
> ? ? ? ? It would be contained as: stmt = "SELECT first, second, third,
> fourth, fifth, sixth from sometable order by rand() limit 1"
>
> ? ? ? ? Then I would execute it with the command: cursor.execute(stmt)
>
> ? ? ? ? How would I correctly seed the random generator in the MySQL
> statement from within Python? ?


You apparently know how to run MySQL statements from Python, correct?

You also apparently know how to run a particular MySQL statement from
PHP that seeds the random number generator, correct?

Given those two apparent facts, you should be able run whatever
statement you ran in PHP to seed the RNG in Python.  So I don't see
what the problem is.

Your question is a MySQL question, not a Python question.  I don't
know off hand how to seed the RNG in MySQL, and, since this is a
Python group and not a MySQL group, I don't care to look it up.  But
if you were able to produce the MySQL statement in PHP that does it
you shouldn't need to ask.

If you don't "get" why this is a MySQL question and not a Python
question, then you need to learn more about what you are doing.


Carl Banks


From davea at ieee.org  Mon Aug  3 23:00:13 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 23:00:13 -0400
Subject: Newbie Question regarding __init__()
In-Reply-To: <01bcf8b8-687c-4bf4-acbb-b059a480d382@f33g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
References: 			
		<6ccf5dbe-4b71-4159-88bb-c6a14aa785a9@k26g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>	
	<01bcf8b8-687c-4bf4-acbb-b059a480d382@f33g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A77A43D.4000709@ieee.org>

Simon wrote:
> On Aug 2, 5:51 am, Dave Angel  wrote:
>   
>> 
>> I don't understand your comparison to Foxpro.  read on.
>>
>> As your code was last posted, you don't need a return value from
>> init_Exec()  Every function that doesn't have an explicit return will
>> return None.  And None is interpreted as False in an "and" expression.  
>> If you had an "if" around the whole thing, then you'd care.
>>
>> DaveA
>>     
>
> All I meant by the FoxPro comment was the idea of using the equal sign
> without a variable to throw away the result.  Also in FoxPro there is
> no such thing as automatically returning None.  If there is no
> explicit return then True is returned.
>
> Thanks I did not know that None is interpreted as False.
>
> Simon
>
>
>   
To throw away the result of an expression in Python is even easier.  
Just don't use it.
       func1() and func2()
is a valid expression whose result is not used.  And func2()'s result is 
therefore irrelevant.  But shortcircuiting means that func2() is only 
called if func1() returned False (or something equivalent to it, like 0 
or an empty list)




From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 23:02:26 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 20:02:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: RUBY vs COMMON LISP
References: <389503e4-eb6a-48c2-af76-cebe1dc7141c@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	 
	 
	<87my6ic1k5.fsf@galatea.local>
	<1a40c8fe-83e4-4c50-90e2-b72ef86a6ac4@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	 
	<87hbwp9umw.fsf@galatea.local>
	<04aef600-150d-44fa-a0cd-d88a4b17e836@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3755ae21-b7b0-4f82-99d4-1095ec953c39@s6g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 3, 7:51?pm, fft1976  wrote:
> On Aug 3, 1:19?am, p... at informatimago.com (Pascal J. Bourguignon)
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > fft1976  writes:
> > > By the way, here is in 1 line of BF, a complete BF reader that is able
> > > to
> > > read all the BF syntax needed to write it:
>
> > > ,+[-.,+]
>
> > > Here's how to try it:
>
> > > $ sudo apt-get install bf
> > > $ cat > reader.bf
> > > ,+[-.,+]
> > > $ bf reader.bf < reader.bf
>
> > > Your 150 lines don't look very impressive now, do they?
>
> > > Ruby < Lisp <<< BF!
>
> > I specified a syntactic reader. ?Not just a reader.
>
> It is a syntactic reader. BF's syntax is just a sequence of
> characters. If you throw in illegal characters, the behavior is
> "undefined". Lisp's syntax is more complicated: it's a tree of
> identifiers (in its idealized form; of course, Common Lisp had to fuck
> it up). Ruby's and Python's syntaxes are even more complicated.
>
> The above was to illustrate the wrongness of your argument that the
> length of a self-parser determines the usefulness of the language.
> Hell, I know that BF can be a little *too* awesome.
>
> By the way, Python's syntax is much better than Ruby's. Dollar signs
> in front of variables? WTF were the designers smoking? That's like
> Perl! Haven't you learned your lesson?
>
> Python's syntax might even be better than Lisp's, but it's certainly
> harder to parse.- Hide quoted text -


Go away, troll.

[This is cross-posted; I recommend that no one else follow up.]


Carl Banks



From fft1976 at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 23:06:58 2009
From: fft1976 at gmail.com (fft1976)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 20:06:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: RUBY vs COMMON LISP
References: <389503e4-eb6a-48c2-af76-cebe1dc7141c@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	 
	 
	<87my6ic1k5.fsf@galatea.local>
	<1a40c8fe-83e4-4c50-90e2-b72ef86a6ac4@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	 
	<87hbwp9umw.fsf@galatea.local>
	<04aef600-150d-44fa-a0cd-d88a4b17e836@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<3755ae21-b7b0-4f82-99d4-1095ec953c39@s6g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 3, 8:02?pm, Carl Banks  wrote:
> On Aug 3, 7:51?pm, fft1976  wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Aug 3, 1:19?am, p... at informatimago.com (Pascal J. Bourguignon)
> > wrote:
>
> > > fft1976  writes:
> > > > By the way, here is in 1 line of BF, a complete BF reader that is able
> > > > to
> > > > read all the BF syntax needed to write it:
>
> > > > ,+[-.,+]
>
> > > > Here's how to try it:
>
> > > > $ sudo apt-get install bf
> > > > $ cat > reader.bf
> > > > ,+[-.,+]
> > > > $ bf reader.bf < reader.bf
>
> > > > Your 150 lines don't look very impressive now, do they?
>
> > > > Ruby < Lisp <<< BF!
>
> > > I specified a syntactic reader. ?Not just a reader.
>
> > It is a syntactic reader. BF's syntax is just a sequence of
> > characters. If you throw in illegal characters, the behavior is
> > "undefined". Lisp's syntax is more complicated: it's a tree of
> > identifiers (in its idealized form; of course, Common Lisp had to fuck
> > it up). Ruby's and Python's syntaxes are even more complicated.
>
> > The above was to illustrate the wrongness of your argument that the
> > length of a self-parser determines the usefulness of the language.
> > Hell, I know that BF can be a little *too* awesome.
>
> > By the way, Python's syntax is much better than Ruby's. Dollar signs
> > in front of variables? WTF were the designers smoking? That's like
> > Perl! Haven't you learned your lesson?
>
> > Python's syntax might even be better than Lisp's, but it's certainly
> > harder to parse.- Hide quoted text -
>
> Go away, troll.
>
> [This is cross-posted; I recommend that no one else follow up.]
>
> Carl Banks

Lispers were having fun badmouthing other languages for no good
reason:

"""
Don't you realize how ugly Ruby syntax is?

Here is in 150 lines of lisp, a simplified lisp reader that is able to
read all the lisp syntax needed to write it.

Try to parse Ruby syntax in Ruby and see how useless a language it
is.
"""

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/52dde974d504ad54

Of course you don't like it when I point out just how wrong you are.


From fatkinson at mishmash.com  Mon Aug  3 23:12:49 2009
From: fatkinson at mishmash.com (Fred Atkinson)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 20:12:49 -0700
Subject: Seeding the rand() Generator
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 2 Aug 2009 17:00:40 -0700 (PDT), Carl Banks
 wrote:

	I appreciate the response.  

	I am executing a statement to retrieve one record at random.  

	An example would be: SELECT first, second, third, fourth,
fifth, sixth from sometable order by rand() limit 1

	It would be contained as: stmt = "SELECT first, second, third,
fourth, fifth, sixth from sometable order by rand() limit 1"

	Then I would execute it with the command: cursor.execute(stmt)

	How would I correctly seed the random generator in the MySQL
statement from within Python?  

	Regards, 



						Fred 


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Aug  3 23:23:20 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 04 Aug 2009 03:23:20 GMT
Subject: no-clobber dicts?
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 03 Aug 2009 21:07:32 +0000, kj wrote:

> I use the term "no-clobber dict" to refer to a dictionary D with the
> especial property that if K is in D, then
> 
>   D[K] = V
> 
> will raise an exception unless V == D[K].  In other words, D[K] can be
> set if K doesn't exist already among D's keys, or if the assigned value
> is equal to the current value of D[K].  All other assignments to D[K]
> trigger an exception.


Coincidentally, I just built something very close to what you ask. Here 
it is:

class ConstantNamespace(dict):
    """Dictionary with write-once keys."""
    def __delitem__(self, key):
        raise TypeError("can't unbind constants")
    def __setitem__(self, key, value):
        if key in self:
            raise TypeError("can't rebind constants")
        super(ConstantNamespace, self).__setitem__(key, value)
    def clear(self):
        raise TypeError('cannot unbind constants')
    def pop(self, key, *args):
        raise TypeError("cannot pop constants")
    def popitem(self):
        raise TypeError("cannot pop constants")
    def update(self, other):
        for key in other:
            if key in self:
                raise TypeError('cannot update constants')
        # If we get here, then we're not modifying anything, 
        # so okay to proceed.
        super(ConstantNamespace, self).update(other)
    def copy(self):
        c = self.__class__(**self)
        return c



I also have a series of unit tests for it if you're interested in them.




-- 
Steven


From davea at ieee.org  Mon Aug  3 23:23:38 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 23:23:38 -0400
Subject: file comparison
In-Reply-To: <29a34bc20908031748j11280ab0mb4303da4156db54b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <29a34bc20907310225n50b35fe2m322872af2058a465@mail.gmail.com>	
	<200907311247.30793.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>	
	<4A72E9BF.3080808@ieee.org>
	<29a34bc20908031748j11280ab0mb4303da4156db54b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A77A9BA.4090104@ieee.org>

learner learner wrote:
> Firstly thanks for showing the interest. I shall elobarate more on the
> problem:
>
> file-1.txt
> --------------
> hai
> how
> r
> u
>
> file-2.txt
> ---------------
> r
> hai
> u
>
>
> The two files have some lines in common.
>
> For eg: File-1.txt-first line-"hai" does not match with File-2.txt-first
> line-"r" but surely matches with File-2.txt -second
>
> line -"hai". On having an iterative search the file-1.txt should finally be
> left out with mismatched string "how", which is
>
> to be dumped into a third file say file3.txt or rewritten to
> file-1.txt/file-2.txt with this single word "how" in line 1.
>
> some facts to remember:
> ------------------------
>
> the srings in the files will be same including case sentiveness if at all
> present, else will be pronounced as a mismatch.
>
> this is bascically an iterative string search amongst the files and
> isolating the mismatched strings into a text file
>
>   
(By replying off-list, you are ignoring the intent of public mailing 
lists.  So I'm copying your message to the list, along with my response.)

As I said before:

If the text files are each a list of items, with order and duplication 
irrelevant, then your best bet is probably to build a set from each, and 
difference the sets.

Sets are case-sensitive, and your example above indicates that order is 
at least partially irrelevant to you.

So read each file, converting the lines into a set.  Then do a set 
difference of those two sets.  Then build a list from the result, and 
write that to a file.  If it doesn't work, post the code you tried, 
along with sample data and expected output for that sample data.

DaveA




From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Aug  3 23:30:35 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 04 Aug 2009 03:30:35 GMT
Subject: Generate a new object each time a name is imported
References: <02853264$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 03 Aug 2009 16:38:43 +0200, Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:


> So what's the purpose of making
> 
>>from Module import factory as a
>>from Module import factory as b
> 
> return 2 different objects ? If I had to write this code I would expect
> 'a is b' to return 'True'.
> 
> This is no "don't do that" answer, it's a sincere question: what  is the
> benefit of your /new/ syntax ?


Consider it "properties for modules":

a = obj.factory
b = obj.factory

doesn't promise that a is b, because factory might be a property that 
returns a new object each time.

Actually, this behaviour pre-dates properties. If obj has a __getattr__ 
or __getattribute__ method, then it could do the same thing.


-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Aug  3 23:44:54 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 04 Aug 2009 03:44:54 GMT
Subject: Is python buffer overflow proof?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 03 Aug 2009 14:04:53 -0700, sturlamolden wrote:

> On 2 Aug, 15:50, Jizzai  wrote:
> 
>> Is a _pure_ python program buffer overflow proof?
>>
>> For example in C++ you can declare a char[9] to hold user input. If the
>> user inputs 10+ chars a buffer overflow occurs.
> 
> Short answer: NO
> 
> Bounds checking on sequence types is a protection against buffer
> overflow, but is certainly not sufficient.
> 
> The Python interpreter is written in C. Python extension modules are
> written in C (or something similar). If you find an unprotected buffer
> in this C code, you can possibly overflow this buffer. 

How are C extension modules "_pure_ python"?




-- 
Steven


From thangappan143 at gmail.com  Mon Aug  3 23:45:47 2009
From: thangappan143 at gmail.com (Thangappan.M)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 09:15:47 +0530
Subject: Problem in installing PyGreSQL
Message-ID: <7aa29e790908032045p3b52a633m8d0e366a0f648b@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all,

I want to access the database related stuffs in python.So I found the
PyGreSQL module in net.
Then I tried to download the module.But I am not able to download it.

I am not a super user.
I am using Linux debian machine
Python version is 2.4.4

-- 
Regards,
Thangappan.M
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From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Aug  4 00:06:15 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 04 Aug 2009 04:06:15 GMT
Subject: kw param question
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 03 Aug 2009 19:59:23 +0000, kj wrote:

> I want to write a decorator that, among other things, returns a function
> that has one additional keyword parameter, say foo=None.
> 
> When I try
> 
> def my_decorator(f):
>     # blah, blah
>     def wrapper(*p, foo=None, **kw):
>         x = f(*p, **kw)
>         if (foo):
>             # blah, blah
>         else
>             # blah blah
>     return wrapper
> 
> ...i get a syntax error where it says "foo=None".  I get similar errors
> with everything else I've tried.
> 
> Is is possible to do this in Python?

Have you tried this under Python 2.6 or 3.0?

I've run into similar issues, because you can't have keyword-only 
arguments in Python 2.5 :(

My solution was to create a decorator that faked them. The docstring is 
longer than the decorator itself.


from functools import wraps

def keywords(**defaults):
    """Return a decorator which decorates a function to accept keyword
    arguments.

    Python 2.5 and earlier don't allow keyword-only arguments for 
    non-builtin functions. The obvious syntax:

    def func(x, *args, key=None, word='parrot'):

    is not permitted. As a work-around, write your function something
    like the following example:

    >>> @keywords(key=None, word='parrot')
    ... def func(x, y=0, *args, **kwargs):
    ...     # Inside the function, we can guarantee that kwargs['key'] and
    ...     # kwargs['word'] both exist, and no other keys.
    ...     print "x=%s, y=%s, args=%s" % (x, y, args)
    ...     if kwargs['key'] is None: msg = "kwargs['key'] is None"
    ...     else: msg = "kwargs['key'] is something else"
    ...     msg += " and kwargs['word'] is %r" % kwargs['word']
    ...     print msg
    ...

    When you call func, if you don't provide a keyword-only argument, the
    default will be substituted:

    >>> func(1, 2, 3, 4)
    x=1, y=2, args=(3, 4)
    kwargs['key'] is None and kwargs['word'] is 'parrot'
    >>> func(1)
    x=1, y=0, args=()
    kwargs['key'] is None and kwargs['word'] is 'parrot'


    Naturally you can provide your own values for keyword-only arguments:

    >>> func(1, 2, 3, word='spam')
    x=1, y=2, args=(3,)
    kwargs['key'] is None and kwargs['word'] is 'spam'
    >>> func(1, 2, 3, word='spam', key=len)
    x=1, y=2, args=(3,)
    kwargs['key'] is something else and kwargs['word'] is 'spam'

    If you pass an unexpected keyword argument, TypeError is raised:

    >>> #doctest:+IGNORE_EXCEPTION_DETAIL
    ... func(1, 2, 3, 4, keyword='something')
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      ...
    TypeError: ...

    """
    def decorator(func):
        """Decorate func to allow keyword-only arguments."""
        @wraps(func)
        def f(*args, **kwargs):
            for key in kwargs:
                if key not in defaults:
                    raise TypeError(
                    "'%s' is an invalid keyword argument for " \
                    "this function" % key
                    )
            d = defaults.copy()
            d.update(kwargs)
            return func(*args, **d)
        return f
    return decorator




(Copy and pasted from working code, but I make no guarantee that it will 
have survived the process in working order!)


-- 
Steven


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 00:08:52 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 21:08:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Announcing PythonTurtle
References: 
	
	<729a6652-cdfa-49b8-8013-6d7861b8020e@d4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	 
	<1d144bd0-8829-4449-8935-60bf6f66a5d6@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <02ad1097-bf09-4980-8d1d-18cdbf50cb5a@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 3, 8:53?pm, Asun Friere  wrote:
> On Aug 4, 6:35?am, r  wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>
>
> > I can remember the first time i used turtle (in python stdlib) and i
> > kept saying to myself...
>
> > ? ? "Were the heck is this damn turtle?!?!" (>_<)
>
> > :-)
>
> In Python2.6, try this:
>
>
>
> >>> turtle.shape('turtle')

Thanks Asun, now i don't have anything to complain about! :-#


From koranthala at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 00:09:05 2009
From: koranthala at gmail.com (koranthala)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 21:09:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Which GUI framework to use?
Message-ID: <43a2d0a9-7166-4f7c-9fb8-13a23980c1d7@y10g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

Hi,
   I am creating a very minimal application (a networking app).
   I have written the application using Twisted.
   Now, I need to put a GUI wrapper on the application.
   The application needs a login screen and also it needs to be
minimized to system tray. If I right click the image on system tray, I
should be able to close it.
   It uses some legacy code, so the whole app is written in Python
2.4. Also, my company requires that I use permissive licenses (no GPL
- MIT, BSD, LGPL etc ok)

   Which GUI framework is best for this? I tried using Tkinter, but it
does not support minimize to system tray (or I couldnt find it).

   This is my first foray to GUI programming, so other issues that I
am worried about -
   1. GUI needs a loop, Twisted needs a loop. How can both go ahead
without messing each other?

Thank You very much
K


From jjposner at optimum.net  Tue Aug  4 00:12:34 2009
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 00:12:34 -0400
Subject: Announcing PythonTurtle
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A77B532.5020906@optimum.net>


> ... I would also venture to say a key-map
> of sorts that is available thru the help menu where one could push an
> "Up" button, or a "rotate" button, and have the proper command
> inserted in the prompt, and then have the command execute, may also
> help make the connections here, a sort of *real* Visual Basic
> programming -- sorry Microsoft :P
>   
Along these lines, see my "ClixTur" application at www.jjposner.net. 
It's a point-and-click front end to the standard Python turtle module, 
implementing only a very small subset of the turtle commands. As you 
click, the "real turtle commands" appear in a transcript window. You can 
then save (and maybe edit) and replay the transcript.

Ram, I like a lot of what you've done. Could you talk about your 
decision to embed the standard turtle module (which is implemented in 
Tkinter) in a wxPython application?

-John



From philip at semanchuk.com  Tue Aug  4 00:34:10 2009
From: philip at semanchuk.com (Philip Semanchuk)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 00:34:10 -0400
Subject: Problem in installing PyGreSQL
In-Reply-To: <7aa29e790908032045p3b52a633m8d0e366a0f648b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7aa29e790908032045p3b52a633m8d0e366a0f648b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B1B10B5-24D5-44D0-B16F-6308D8D8FAD2@semanchuk.com>


On Aug 3, 2009, at 11:45 PM, Thangappan.M wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> I want to access the database related stuffs in python.So I found the
> PyGreSQL module in net.
> Then I tried to download the module.But I am not able to download it.
>
> I am not a super user.
> I am using Linux debian machine
> Python version is 2.4.4

Hi Thangappan,
If you want us to be able to help you, you'll need to give more  
information. For instance, why are you not able to download PyGreSQL?

You might want to try psycopg2 which also gives you access to  
PostgreSQL from Python. You can download it from this site:
http://initd.org/


Hope this helps
Philip


From http  Tue Aug  4 00:34:15 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 03 Aug 2009 21:34:15 -0700
Subject: Is python buffer overflow proof?
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <7x1vnsmc3c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Steven D'Aprano  writes:
> > The Python interpreter is written in C. Python extension modules are
> > written in C (or something similar). If you find an unprotected buffer
> > in this C code, you can possibly overflow this buffer. 
> 
> How are C extension modules "_pure_ python"?

A lot of basic Python constructs (like numbers and dictionaries) are
implemented as C extension modules.  It is reasonable to consider
"pure Python" to include the contents of the Python standard library.


From david.lyon at preisshare.net  Tue Aug  4 00:42:25 2009
From: david.lyon at preisshare.net (David Lyon)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 00:42:25 -0400
Subject: Problem in installing PyGreSQL
In-Reply-To: <7aa29e790908032045p3b52a633m8d0e366a0f648b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7aa29e790908032045p3b52a633m8d0e366a0f648b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7f0b4d2b1d5bd3f3057ead3b029059b9@preisshare.net>

On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 09:15:47 +0530, "Thangappan.M" 
wrote:
> I want to access the database related stuffs in python.So I found the
> PyGreSQL module in net.
> Then I tried to download the module.But I am not able to download it.

Did none of the links here work?

http://www.pygresql.org/readme.html#where-to-get

> I am not a super user.
> I am using Linux debian machine
> Python version is 2.4.4

Try building it from source.

Otherwise try getting it from pypi

http://pypi.python.org/pypi/PyGreSQL/

David


From nagle at animats.com  Tue Aug  4 01:06:06 2009
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 22:06:06 -0700
Subject: Is python buffer overflow proof?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	
	
Message-ID: <4a77c0d9$0$1584$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

Gabriel Genellina wrote:
> En Mon, 03 Aug 2009 18:04:53 -0300, sturlamolden  
> escribi?:
> 
>> On 2 Aug, 15:50, Jizzai  wrote:
>>
>>> Is a _pure_ python program buffer overflow proof?
>>>
>>> For example in C++ you can declare a char[9] to hold user input.
>>> If the user inputs 10+ chars a buffer overflow occurs.
>>
>> Short answer: NO

> I disagree. You've just translated the responsability to check for 
> buffer overflows, from the Python VM, to the Java VM or the .Net runtime 
> (and all three suffered from buffer overruns and other problems in some 
> way or another). 

    A more useful question is whether the standard libraries are being
run through any of the commercial static checkers for possible buffer
overflows.

				John Nagle


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 01:33:33 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 22:33:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: no-clobber dicts?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
> I also have a series of unit tests for it if you're interested in them.

That's several times today that kj has asked a question and you've
responded with ready-to-go code. If this was Stackoverflow, I'd accuse
you of reputation-whoring...

You _can_ just post your cool code without the double act, y'know! :)


From david.lyon at preisshare.net  Tue Aug  4 01:55:20 2009
From: david.lyon at preisshare.net (David Lyon)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 01:55:20 -0400
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire
	=?UTF-8?Q?writers=3F?=
In-Reply-To: <756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
References: 
	
	
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
Message-ID: 


It isn't totally about the writers...

Peoples egos are also at stake - it seems.

If "Fred X wrote Doc Y".. they don't want their name taken off.. So
they generally speaking don't want the docs changed.

If you talk too much about docs.. you can be told you're OT..

even in a thread about docs...

On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:12:43 -0700, Kee Nethery  wrote:
> I too find the Python docs not very useful and it really slows down my  
> learning curve.
> 
> I wonder if it would make sense to find good tech writers, get a  
> quotes, and get some professionally written documentation WITH LOTS OF  
> EXAMPLES added to the standard Python documentation tree.
> 
> I'd chip in money for that task. I've certainly spent enough buying  
> Python books to where it would be very reasonable to chip in the cost  
> of one book towards this project. Get enough people ... could be a  
> great thing.
> 
> Even though it is not the version I use, I would suggest that the  
> really detailed docs with lots of examples be written against the  
> latest python version.
> 
> Just a thought.
> 
> Kee Nethery


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Aug  4 02:09:52 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 04 Aug 2009 06:09:52 GMT
Subject: Is python buffer overflow proof?
References: 
	
	
	<7x1vnsmc3c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 03 Aug 2009 21:34:15 -0700, Paul Rubin wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano  writes:
>> > The Python interpreter is written in C. Python extension modules are
>> > written in C (or something similar). If you find an unprotected
>> > buffer in this C code, you can possibly overflow this buffer.
>> 
>> How are C extension modules "_pure_ python"?
> 
> A lot of basic Python constructs (like numbers and dictionaries) are
> implemented as C extension modules.  It is reasonable to consider "pure
> Python" to include the contents of the Python standard library.

Well, yes, but we're not saying that Python is bug-free. There could be 
bugs in the Python VM for that matter.

The point is that code you write yourself can rely on "pure Python" to be 
free of buffer-overflows (for some definition of "rely") rather than 
having to worry about managing memory yourself. If you do this:

buffer = [0]*1024
buffer[:] = [1]*1025

you don't over-write some random piece of memory, the list object resizes 
to accommodate, or fails with an exception instead. No special action is 
needed to avoid buffer overflows. You can't make that claim about C 
extensions.

It's interesting to contrast that with DoS vulnerabilities in pure Python 
code. Python won't stop you from trying to calculate a googolplex:

googol = 10**100
googolplex = 10**googol

and doing so will be a moderately effective denial of service against 
your Python application. If you're concerned with that, you need to code 
defensively in the Python layer. Protecting against time-consuming 
operations is not part of Python's design.



-- 
Steven


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 02:21:20 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 23:21:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	
	
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	
Message-ID: <95ea30c4-a5e5-458e-a8e4-4398c376e52d@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 4, 3:55?pm, David Lyon  wrote:
> It isn't totally about the writers...
> Peoples egos are also at stake - it seems.

Citation please.

> If "Fred X wrote Doc Y".. they don't want their name taken off.. So
> they generally speaking don't want the docs changed.

Ditto.

> If you talk too much about docs.. you can be told you're OT..
> even in a thread about docs...

And again.

All I've _ever_ seen (on this group at least) is the much repeated
phrase "All patches to the docs are welcomed". If you'd like to cast
aspersions on the characters of those doing the work over actually
contributing yourself, you're certainly free to do so, just don't
expect your claims to be taken seriously.

Other people's refusal to do the work that _you_ consider to be
necessary isn't "ego".


From deets at nospam.web.de  Tue Aug  4 02:48:31 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 08:48:31 +0200
Subject: Which GUI framework to use?
In-Reply-To: <43a2d0a9-7166-4f7c-9fb8-13a23980c1d7@y10g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
References: <43a2d0a9-7166-4f7c-9fb8-13a23980c1d7@y10g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7dq3tvF2d74reU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

koranthala schrieb:
> Hi,
>    I am creating a very minimal application (a networking app).
>    I have written the application using Twisted.
>    Now, I need to put a GUI wrapper on the application.
>    The application needs a login screen and also it needs to be
> minimized to system tray. If I right click the image on system tray, I
> should be able to close it.
>    It uses some legacy code, so the whole app is written in Python
> 2.4. Also, my company requires that I use permissive licenses (no GPL
> - MIT, BSD, LGPL etc ok)


Google this group. The discussions are abundant about this. Keep in mind 
that while Qt changed licenses to LGPL, PyQt didn't and thus you can't 
use it.

>    Which GUI framework is best for this? I tried using Tkinter, but it
> does not support minimize to system tray (or I couldnt find it).
> 
>    This is my first foray to GUI programming, so other issues that I
> am worried about -
>    1. GUI needs a loop, Twisted needs a loop. How can both go ahead
> without messing each other?

Google is your friend here, too:

http://twistedmatrix.com/projects/core/documentation/howto/choosing-reactor.html


Diez


From contact at xavierho.com  Tue Aug  4 02:59:50 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 16:59:50 +1000
Subject: Seeding the rand() Generator
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
	
	
	<0b7c702f-5775-418e-8fc5-2f9df7487867@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908032359k4d3abf63i97bb4883a75b2a15@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 5:48 PM, Fred Atkinson wrote:

> I tried using the same command I used when I did this in PHP.
> That command was: mt_srand(date("w"))
>
>        It was a PHP command that seeds the MySQL random function,
> according to the folks on the PHP newsgroup.


Well, some people have suggested to use that inside Python. That would work,
right?

Although, if you're just trying to find the Python-equivalent, fair enough.

Regards,

Ching-Yun "Xavier" Ho, Technical Artist

Contact Information
Mobile: (+61) 04 3335 4748
Skype ID: SpaXe85
Email: contact at xavierho.com
Website: http://xavierho.com/
-------------- next part --------------
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From torppa at staff.megabaud.fi  Tue Aug  4 03:12:30 2009
From: torppa at staff.megabaud.fi (Jarkko Torppa)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 07:12:30 GMT
Subject: Seeding the rand() Generator
References: 
	
	
	
	
	<0b7c702f-5775-418e-8fc5-2f9df7487867@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-04, Fred Atkinson  wrote:
> On Mon, 3 Aug 2009 20:00:08 -0700 (PDT), Carl Banks
> wrote:
>>
>>If you don't "get" why this is a MySQL question and not a Python
>>question, then you need to learn more about what you are doing.
>
> 	I wouldn't agree.  
>
> 	I tried using the same command I used when I did this in PHP.
> That command was: mt_srand(date("w"))
>
> 	It was a PHP command that seeds the MySQL random function,
> according to the folks on the PHP newsgroup.  

It seems that they lied to you. Did you actually try that ?

> 	I'm trying to figure out what the Python equivalent of that
> is.  

Python equivalent of that is random.seed(x), if PHP docs are to be believed.

> 	Now do you see?  

What you acutally want is "select *,rand(3) as rand from table
order by rand" or something like that. That 3 is the seed in there.

-- 
Jarkko Torppa


From news123 at free.fr  Tue Aug  4 03:24:57 2009
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 09:24:57 +0200
Subject: merge two png pic
In-Reply-To: <006617e3-6630-4f04-bff1-99c58dbb6cb5@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	
	<006617e3-6630-4f04-bff1-99c58dbb6cb5@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a77e249$0$2449$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Hi,

cocobear wrote:

>> > >> Map = Image.new("RGB", (x,y))
>> > >> Map.paste(im, box)
>> > >> Map.paste(im1,box)
>
>> > >> Map = Map.convert("L", optimize=True, palette=Image.ADAPTIVE)
>
>> > >> But if thetwopngpicis too big , or if I have tomergemorepic
>> > >> together, I will get MemoryError:
>
>>>>> > >> >>> Image.new("RGB",(44544,38656))
>>
>> What do you want to do with such a big image? You will run into the same
>> limitation when you are trying to display it.
>>
> 
> I want to download a map from google map with high precision
> 


For me it sounds strange to handle such big files.

Is the map you download from Google really that big?
Mostly Google maps uses normally tiles of sizes 256x256 pixel, wich you
have to compose to get the  big image.

If your problem is to combine tiles with different palettes, then you
should pobably look at a way to  'unify' the palette of all tiles befor
combining them.

Being no expert of PIL I don't know whether this is easily possible though?


bye


N


From contact at xavierho.com  Tue Aug  4 03:31:29 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 17:31:29 +1000
Subject: merge two png pic
In-Reply-To: <4a77e249$0$2449$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: 
	
	
	<006617e3-6630-4f04-bff1-99c58dbb6cb5@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<4a77e249$0$2449$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908040031j2aabe2f8xa5c69be943030783@mail.gmail.com>

Strange, I did reply but you didn't see it?

>>>>> > >> >>> Image.new("RGB",(44544,38656))
> >>
> >> What do you want to do with such a big image? You will run into the same
> >> limitation when you are trying to display it.
> >>
> >
> > I want to download a map from google map with high precision
>

Download several maps instead. Streaming if you have to.

I'm not sure how you're going to avoid that MemoryError by trying to
aggregate everything at once. Might have to make it a dynamic loader, and
only load pictures as relevant (i.e: visible, and next to visible)

Think how Google Maps do it. They can't possibly upload 5GB of pictures
every time you access Maps - that wouldn't have worked. They work with the
only visible areas.

If you could tell us exactly what your program is trying to achieve, maybe
we'll have a better solution for you.

Best regards,

Ching-Yun "Xavier" Ho, Technical Artist

Contact Information
Mobile: (+61) 04 3335 4748
Skype ID: SpaXe85
Email: contact at xavierho.com
Website: http://xavierho.com/
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From lkrzysiak at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 03:33:49 2009
From: lkrzysiak at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?=C5=81ukasz?=)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 00:33:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Strange python script behaviour
Message-ID: 

Hi,
I have a problem with one of my python scripts. When I run this script
from command line it works correctly, but if I set up cron to run this
script on specified hour it works for a while and then "[Errno 32]
Broken pipe" error occures (always).

The strangest thing is that if I change command in CRON

from
python /home/xxx/script.py
to
python /home/xxx/script.py  > /tmp/script.log 2>&1

the script always works correctly!!!

The question is WHY? Any ideas?



From electronixtar at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 03:38:27 2009
From: electronixtar at gmail.com (est)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 00:38:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: modify a exe's RT_ACCELERATOR table using pefile module
Message-ID: 

Hi list,

I need to modify a exe's RT_ACCELERATOR table, rename F1 to Ctrl+F1,
and assign hotkey F1 to another function

Is there a way to do it with pefile/python? A sample code is
appreciated. Thanks!


From ram.rachum at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 03:44:59 2009
From: ram.rachum at gmail.com (cool-RR)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 00:44:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Announcing PythonTurtle
References:  
	
Message-ID: <9e3b0c86-3a2a-4bc4-91f3-1b01a05d6b86@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 4, 7:12?am, John Posner  wrote:
> > ... I would also venture to say a key-map
> > of sorts that is available thru the help menu where one could push an
> > "Up" button, or a "rotate" button, and have the proper command
> > inserted in the prompt, and then have the command execute, may also
> > help make the connections here, a sort of *real* Visual Basic
> > programming -- sorry Microsoft :P
>
> Along these lines, see my "ClixTur" application atwww.jjposner.net.
> It's a point-and-click front end to the standard Python turtle module,
> implementing only a very small subset of the turtle commands. As you
> click, the "real turtle commands" appear in a transcript window. You can
> then save (and maybe edit) and replay the transcript.
>
> Ram, I like a lot of what you've done. Could you talk about your
> decision to embed the standard turtle module (which is implemented in
> Tkinter) in a wxPython application?
>
> -John

Certainly John- although I have not embedded the turtle module at all,
I just wrote my own. This was actually quite a short process - What
took the most time was developing the shell, which is a fork of
PyShell. The original PyShell controls the same process it is run on,
but my fork controls a different process (created by the
multiprocessing package.) That took a lot of time. I actually created
an independent package for it, called "shelltoprocess", which is a
subfolder in PythonTurtle's source, so now anyone can use it for their
own project. I am proud to say that this shell has some features that
IDLE should envy.

If you're asking WHY I put it in a wxPython application, the answer is
pretty much what "r" said: To make it like any other "over the
counter" Windows application, making people feel more comfortable with
it.
Also, not requiring them to install Python+packages, but just
PythonTurtle.

Ram.


From fatkinson at mishmash.com  Tue Aug  4 03:48:42 2009
From: fatkinson at mishmash.com (Fred Atkinson)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 00:48:42 -0700
Subject: Seeding the rand() Generator
References: 
	
	
	
	
	<0b7c702f-5775-418e-8fc5-2f9df7487867@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 3 Aug 2009 20:00:08 -0700 (PDT), Carl Banks
 wrote:

>Your question is a MySQL question, not a Python question.  I don't
>know off hand how to seed the RNG in MySQL, and, since this is a
>Python group and not a MySQL group, I don't care to look it up.  But
>if you were able to produce the MySQL statement in PHP that does it
>you shouldn't need to ask.
>
>If you don't "get" why this is a MySQL question and not a Python
>question, then you need to learn more about what you are doing.

	I wouldn't agree.  

	I tried using the same command I used when I did this in PHP.
That command was: mt_srand(date("w"))

	It was a PHP command that seeds the MySQL random function,
according to the folks on the PHP newsgroup.  

	I'm trying to figure out what the Python equivalent of that
is.  

	Now do you see?  



						Fred 


From http  Tue Aug  4 03:56:05 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 04 Aug 2009 00:56:05 -0700
Subject: Is python buffer overflow proof?
References: 
	
	
	<7x1vnsmc3c.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
Message-ID: <7x4osoypuy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Steven D'Aprano  writes:
> The point is that code you write yourself can rely on "pure Python" to be 
> free of buffer-overflows (for some definition of "rely") rather than 
> having to worry about managing memory yourself.

Right.  Basically the Python interpreter protects you reasonably well
from silly errors.  The interpreter hasn't had anywhere near the level
of hardening required to claim to protect you from diabolically clever
malicious code running in the same interpreter as your sensitive
application.  The Rexec/Bastion modules were basically swiss cheese.


From loic.domaigne at googlemail.com  Tue Aug  4 04:02:04 2009
From: loic.domaigne at googlemail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lo=EFc_Domaign=E9?=)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 01:02:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Strange python script behaviour
References: 
Message-ID: 

Hi,

> I have a problem with one of my python scripts. When I run this script
> from command line it works correctly, but if I set up cron to run this
> script on specified hour it works for a while and then "[Errno 32]
> Broken pipe" error occures (always).
>
> The strangest thing is that if I change command in CRON
>
> from
> python /home/xxx/script.py
> to
> python /home/xxx/script.py ?> /tmp/script.log 2>&1
>
> the script always works correctly!!!
>
> The question is WHY? Any ideas?

This is a cron issue, and has little with python to do.

By default, cron will email the output produced by your script, unless
you redirect. It does so by pipe to a "mail" program. Your error seems
to indicate a problem with the latter (perhaps you don't have any
"mail" program installed).

HTH,
Lo?c
--
My Blog: http://www.domaigne.com/blog

"To err is human, but to really foul things up you need a computer."
-- Paul Ehrlich


From anthra.norell at bluewin.ch  Tue Aug  4 04:02:31 2009
From: anthra.norell at bluewin.ch (Anthra Norell)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 10:02:31 +0200
Subject: Compiling regex inside function?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <4A77EB17.2050308@bluewin.ch>

alex23 wrote:
> Anthra Norell  wrote:
>   
>> def entries (l):
>>         r = re.compile ('([0-9]+) entr(y|ies)')
>>         match = r.search (l)
>>         if match: return match.group (1)
>>
>> So the question is: does "r" get regex-compiled once at py-compile time
>> or repeatedly at entries() run time?
>>     
> The docs say:
> The compiled versions of the most recent patterns passed to re.match
> (), re.search() or re.compile() are cached, so programs that use only
> a few regular expressions at a time needn?t worry about compiling
> regular expressions.
>
> (But they don't say how few is 'only a few'...)
>
> If you're concerned about it, you could always set the compiled
> pattern to a default value in the function's argspec, as that _is_
> only executed the once:
>
> def entries(line, regex = re.compile('([0-9]+) entr(y|ies)'):
>     match = regex.search(line)
>     ...
>   

Excellent idea! Thank you all for the tips.

Frederic



From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Tue Aug  4 04:03:53 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 10:03:53 +0200
Subject: Confessions of a Python fanboy
In-Reply-To: <008eef29$0$9756$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 		<008e82e8$0$9756$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<4a72d7cf$0$25239$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<008eef29$0$9756$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4a77eb69$0$22600$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Steven D'Aprano a ?crit :
> On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 13:38:56 +0200, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
> 
>>> On the other hand, we don't have to prefix names with @ and @@,
>> Nope, we have to prefix them with 'self' or 'cls' (or even
>> 'self.__class__').
> 
> Incorrect.

Correct for all relevant cases, except this one:

>>>> class K:
> ...     class_attribute = 'No @@ required.'
> ...

>>>> K().class_attribute
> 'No @@ required.'

Once again: Ruby's attributes are *private*, so you can't access an 
attribute (class or instance) from outside a method. IOW, the above 
example is irrelevant.

(snip)

> Disadvantages: your code is filled with line noise. It's an arbitrary 
> choice between @@ meaning instance attribute and @@ meaning class 
> attribute -- there's no logical reason for choosing one over the other, 
> so you have to memorise which is which. It's easy to get it wrong.

So far that's something I have no difficulty living with.

>>> and we
>>> don't have the compiler trying to *guess* whether we're calling a
>>> function or referring to a variable.
>> Please re-read a bit more carefully - it's *all* method call. 
> 
> What did I misread from here?

Nowhere - it's me that got it wrong here, sorry.

(snip)


>>> Somebody who knows more Ruby than me should try writing the Zen of
>>> Ruby. Something like:
>> (snip childish parody of Python Zen)
>>
>> Steven, is that any useful ?
> 
> It made me feel good.

Why ???

You don't like Ruby ? Fine, don't use it. Period. I can't see the point 
of all these pissing contests.

> But seriously, while I admit that I have very little Ruby experience, and 
> so aren't in a great position to judge, it seems to me that Ruby doesn't 
> have anything like Python's over-riding design principles (the Zen). If 
> there is a design principle to Ruby, I can't see what it is.

Fullfill the tastes of Matz ?-)

(snip)

>>> Although I'm sure Ruby has its good points. I'm not convinced anonymous
>>> code blocks are one of them though.
>> Ruby's code blocks come from Smalltalk, where they are an absolute
>> necessity since message passing (which code blocks are part of) is the
>> *only* builtin control flow in Smalltalk - so you just *need* this
>> construction to provide branching and iterations.
> 
> Just because Smalltalk had a particular (mis?)feature

You can drop the 'mis' part IMHO. The point of code blocks in Smalltalk 
is that once you have something as powerful as the message+code blocks 
combo, you just don't need any other 'special form' for control flow.

> doesn't mean that 
> other languages should copy it.

Nope. But OTHO, Python is famous for all the features it copied from 
other languages !-)


From spam.buster at web.de  Tue Aug  4 04:08:23 2009
From: spam.buster at web.de (Lars Behrens)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 10:08:23 +0200
Subject: Strange python script behaviour
References: 
Message-ID: 

?ukasz wrote:

> The strangest thing is that if I change command in CRON
> 
> from
> python /home/xxx/script.py
> to
> python /home/xxx/script.py  > /tmp/script.log 2>&1
> 
> the script always works correctly!!!
> 
> The question is WHY? Any ideas?

Seems to me that this is more of a shell thing...

First of all, it is always a good idea to call applications with their full
path from cronjobs:

/usr/bin/python /home/xxx/script.py or whatever the output of your "which
python" may be.

How did you create the cronjob? Dependending on the editor you used, maybe
there is a missing newline...

-- 
Cheerz Lars


From lkrzysiak at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 04:30:29 2009
From: lkrzysiak at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?=C5=81ukasz?=)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 01:30:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Strange python script behaviour
References: 
	
Message-ID: <4cfffc2c-1923-4fc6-be0b-07ee4c4aae2b@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On 4 Sie, 10:02, Lo?c Domaign?  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> > I have a problem with one of my python scripts. When I run this script
> > from command line it works correctly, but if I set up cron to run this
> > script on specified hour it works for a while and then "[Errno 32]
> > Broken pipe" error occures (always).
>
> > The strangest thing is that if I change command in CRON
>
> > from
> > python /home/xxx/script.py
> > to
> > python /home/xxx/script.py ?> /tmp/script.log 2>&1
>
> > the script always works correctly!!!
>
> > The question is WHY? Any ideas?
>
> This is a cron issue, and has little with python to do.
>
> By default, cron will email the output produced by your script, unless
> you redirect. It does so by pipe to a "mail" program. Your error seems
> to indicate a problem with the latter (perhaps you don't have any
> "mail" program installed).
>

Hmm... interesting, but logical explanation. Cron has its weird
issues. I guess I have to redirect outputs of all my scripts to /dev/
null in order to prevent them from this kind of error.

Thanks for help :)


From lkrzysiak at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 04:33:17 2009
From: lkrzysiak at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?=C5=81ukasz?=)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 01:33:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Strange python script behaviour
References: 
	
Message-ID: <7e430558-f029-450e-bb06-2b273a7a2fe1@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>

On 4 Sie, 10:08, Lars Behrens  wrote:
> ?ukasz wrote:
> > The strangest thing is that if I change command in CRON
>
> > from
> > python /home/xxx/script.py
> > to
> > python /home/xxx/script.py ?> /tmp/script.log 2>&1
>
> > the script always works correctly!!!
>
> > The question is WHY? Any ideas?
>
> Seems to me that this is more of a shell thing...
>
> First of all, it is always a good idea to call applications with their full
> path from cronjobs:
>
> /usr/bin/python /home/xxx/script.py or whatever the output of your "which
> python" may be.
>
> How did you create the cronjob? Dependending on the editor you used, maybe
> there is a missing newline...
>

No, I've just simplified cron entries to not mess the example :) The
key thing was redirecting stdin & stderr to file. But thanks
anyway... :)



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Tue Aug  4 04:48:15 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 05:48:15 -0300
Subject: Is python buffer overflow proof?
References: 
	
	
	<4a77c0d9$0$1584$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: 

En Tue, 04 Aug 2009 02:06:06 -0300, John Nagle   
escribi?:
> Gabriel Genellina wrote:
>> En Mon, 03 Aug 2009 18:04:53 -0300, sturlamolden  
>>  escribi?:
>>
>>> On 2 Aug, 15:50, Jizzai  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Is a _pure_ python program buffer overflow proof?
>>>> For example in C++ you can declare a char[9] to hold user input.
>>>> If the user inputs 10+ chars a buffer overflow occurs.

>     A more useful question is whether the standard libraries are being
> run through any of the commercial static checkers for possible buffer
> overflows.

In the past the Python source code was checked with valgrind and some  
coverity tools; I don't know the current status.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From bartsmeets86 at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 04:52:20 2009
From: bartsmeets86 at gmail.com (Bart Smeets)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 10:52:20 +0200
Subject: easy_install: unresolved external symbol
In-Reply-To: 
References: <2119ee90908031339o71e19624qa815241b446d739d@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <2119ee90908040152k5a744f98l7d5bc7da755948a2@mail.gmail.com>

I could ofcourse use cxfreeze's binary package. But bbfreeze is not
available as a binary. I would love to get easy_install to work. But I have
no idea what's going wrong here.

2009/8/4 Gabriel Genellina 

> En Mon, 03 Aug 2009 17:39:44 -0300, Bart Smeets 
> escribi?:
>
> I keep getting errors when trying to use easy_install to install bbfreeze
>> or
>> cxfreeze (same errors).
>> This is the output:
>> http://pastebin.com/m65ba474d
>>
>
> Can't you use the binary packages?
>
> --
> Gabriel Genellina
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
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From loic.domaigne at googlemail.com  Tue Aug  4 05:11:21 2009
From: loic.domaigne at googlemail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lo=EFc_Domaign=E9?=)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 02:11:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Strange python script behaviour
References: 
	 
	<4cfffc2c-1923-4fc6-be0b-07ee4c4aae2b@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <328af145-daaa-4239-bb42-dbf0a379540e@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>


> > > I have a problem with one of my python scripts. When I run this script
> > > from command line it works correctly, but if I set up cron to run this
> > > script on specified hour it works for a while and then "[Errno 32]
> > > Broken pipe" error occures (always).
>
> > > The strangest thing is that if I change command in CRON
>
> > > from
> > > python /home/xxx/script.py
> > > to
> > > python /home/xxx/script.py ?> /tmp/script.log 2>&1
>
> > > the script always works correctly!!!
>
> > > The question is WHY? Any ideas?
>
> > This is a cron issue, and has little with python to do.
>
> > By default, cron will email the output produced by your script, unless
> > you redirect. It does so by pipe to a "mail" program. Your error seems
> > to indicate a problem with the latter (perhaps you don't have any
> > "mail" program installed).
>
> Hmm... interesting, but logical explanation. Cron has its weird
> issues. I guess I have to redirect outputs of all my scripts to /dev/
> null in order to prevent them from this kind of error.

You could also set the MAILTO variable to "".


HTH,
Lo?c
--
My Blog: http://www.domaigne.com/blog

"Hardware: The parts of a computer system that can be kicked." -- Jeff
Pesis.


From david.lyon at preisshare.net  Tue Aug  4 05:12:07 2009
From: david.lyon at preisshare.net (David Lyon)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 05:12:07 -0400
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?easy=5Finstall=3A=20unresolved=20external=20symbol?=
In-Reply-To: <2119ee90908040152k5a744f98l7d5bc7da755948a2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2119ee90908031339o71e19624qa815241b446d739d@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<2119ee90908040152k5a744f98l7d5bc7da755948a2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87f2eede5ce0f1391994db66153e3c96@preisshare.net>

On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 10:52:20 +0200, Bart Smeets 
wrote:
> I could ofcourse use cxfreeze's binary package. But bbfreeze is not
> available as a binary. I would love to get easy_install to work. But I
have
> no idea what's going wrong here.

What is going on is that setuptools does some very 'advanced' things.

The best you can do is give the option to link to the ez_setup.py
install script and let the users install it them themselves...

David


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Aug  4 05:28:50 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 04 Aug 2009 09:28:50 GMT
Subject: Confessions of a Python fanboy
References: 
	
	<008e82e8$0$9756$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4a72d7cf$0$25239$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<008eef29$0$9756$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4a77eb69$0$22600$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 04 Aug 2009 10:03:53 +0200, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:

>> Disadvantages: your code is filled with line noise. It's an arbitrary
>> choice between @@ meaning instance attribute and @@ meaning class
>> attribute -- there's no logical reason for choosing one over the other,
>> so you have to memorise which is which. It's easy to get it wrong.
> 
> So far that's something I have no difficulty living with.

I don't like arbitrary symbols. Most people don't -- that's why "line 
noise" is unpopular. It's hard to read, hard to write, hard to maintain, 
and hard to talk about. The more line-noise, the worse the language.

Of course, *ultimately* every symbol is arbitrary. There's no reason why 
"2" should mean the integer two, or "list" should mean a sequence type, 
but some symbols have such a long history, or have some other connection 
(say, with human languages), that the arbitrariness is lost. For 
instance, "+" is the obvious, non-arbitrary choice for the addition 
operator in any programming language using Latin symbols, and probably 
any programming language on Earth. (Not the *only* choice, but the 
obvious one.)

I have a similar dislike for decorator syntax, because "@" ("at" in 
English) has nothing to do with decorations. It's an arbitrary symbol. 
One might argue that "$" would have been a more logical choice, because 
we turn numerals into currency by decorating it with a $ sign. (At least 
in the US, Canada, Australia, and a few other countries.) I use 
decorators all the time, and they are a fantastic invention, but the 
arbitrariness of the @ syntax is a negative. Oh well, one negative out of 
a whole lot of positives isn't too bad.

At least I only have to deal with *one* such arbitrary symbol that needs 
memorizing. There's no need to distinguish between @@function_decorator 
and @class_decorator (or should it be the other way around?). Similarly, 
Python's choice of syntax for attributes is consistent: object.attribute 
works for everything, whether object is a class, an instance, a module, 
and whether attribute is callable or not. You can even use it on ints, 
provided you are clever about it:

>>> 42 .__class__




>>>> Somebody who knows more Ruby than me should try writing the Zen of
>>>> Ruby. Something like:
>>> (snip childish parody of Python Zen)
>>>
>>> Steven, is that any useful ?
>> 
>> It made me feel good.
> 
> Why ???
> 
> You don't like Ruby ? Fine, don't use it. Period. I can't see the point
> of all these pissing contests.

Criticism of a language is a pissing contest?

Yeah, okay, I was a tad dismissive. I un-apologetically jump to strong 
impressions about languages based on minimal use -- but I'm also willing 
to change my mind. Ruby certainly looks to me like it has some nice 
features. Syntax that looks like Perl isn't one of them though.


>> Just because Smalltalk had a particular (mis?)feature
> 
> You can drop the 'mis' part IMHO. The point of code blocks in Smalltalk
> is that once you have something as powerful as the message+code blocks
> combo, you just don't need any other 'special form' for control flow.

Well, maybe, but remember, programming languages are only partly for 
communication to the compiler. They also have the requirement to 
communicate with human programmers as well, and that's even more 
important, because 

(1) humans spent a lot more time working with code than compilers do;

(2) human programmers charge much more money than compilers do;

(3) and you can modify the compiler to suit human needs much more easily 
than you can modify programmers to suit the compiler's needs.

So I'd ask, does Smalltalk's message passing model match the way human 
beings think? If not, then that's a good sign it might be a misfeature.


>> doesn't mean that
>> other languages should copy it.
> 
> Nope. But OTHO, Python is famous for all the features it copied from
> other languages !-)

Absolutely! There's nothing wrong with copying *good* features :)




-- 
Steven


From gregor.lingl at aon.at  Tue Aug  4 05:30:23 2009
From: gregor.lingl at aon.at (Gregor Lingl)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 11:30:23 +0200
Subject: ANN: Python's turtle module: collection of examples + demoViewer
Message-ID: <4a77ffb2$0$1552$91cee783@newsreader04.highway.telekom.at>

Hi all,

A few days ago I've created a repository of turtle graphics 
demos/applications, that use Python's new turtle module.
You can find it at at google code:

http://python-turtle-demo.googlecode.com

There are two versions of the collection: one for use with Python 3.1
and one for use with Python 2.5 / 2.6. The latter contains a

***  backport of version 1.1 of the turtle module  ***
***  (from Python 3.1) to Python 2.5 / 2.6         *** 


Among others it contains all the examples I have demonstrated
at Pycon 2009 and at EuroPython 2009.

Moreover it contains the demoViewer (which is also in the source
distribution of CPython) that lets you select the examples via a menu,
display their source code and execute them in parallel.

If you are interested to amend some of these examples, add some
explanatory material or contribute additional examples, please tell
me so I could add you as a committer to the project.

I'd be glad to expand the repository whith interesting examples
and applications using the turtle module.

If you have questions concerning the examples, feel free to ask
here or ask me directly via my email-address.

I hope this collection will prove to be useful.

Best regards,
Gregor

P.S.: I tried to announce it at comp.lang.python.announce
but for some unknown reason it was not accepted there




From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Tue Aug  4 06:01:06 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 12:01:06 +0200
Subject: Confessions of a Python fanboy
In-Reply-To: 
References: 		<008e82e8$0$9756$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<4a72d7cf$0$25239$426a34cc@news.free.fr>	<008eef29$0$9756$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<4a77eb69$0$22600$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	
Message-ID: <4a7806e2$0$438$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

Steven D'Aprano a ?crit :
 > On Tue, 04 Aug 2009 10:03:53 +0200, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
 >
 >>> Disadvantages: your code is filled with line noise. It's an arbitrary
 >>> choice between @@ meaning instance attribute and @@ meaning class
 >>> attribute -- there's no logical reason for choosing one over the other,
 >>> so you have to memorise which is which. It's easy to get it wrong.
 >> So far that's something I have no difficulty living with.
 >
 > I don't like arbitrary symbols.

Neither do I - when there are too many at least. But I can certainly 
live with a couple ones. Now the point wasn't about my personal tastes, 
but about the fact that this particular pair of "arbitrary symbols" was 
  IMHO still usable - IOW, I wouldn't dismiss Ruby on this sole point.

 > Most people don't -- that's why "line
 > noise" is unpopular. It's hard to read, hard to write, hard to maintain,
 > and hard to talk about. The more line-noise, the worse the language.

OTHO, too much verbosity is a pain too. Ever programmed in AppleScript ? 
"set the attribute XXX of object YYY of collection ZZZ to SomeValue"... 
Yuck. I bet you prefer "zzz[yyy].xxx = SomeValue" - which uses three 
arbitrary symbols.

(snip)

 > Oh well, one negative out of
 > a whole lot of positives isn't too bad.

Indeed. You could perhaps learn a bit more about Ruby's positives if you 
don't block on what you perceive (rightfully or not) as negative points ?-)

(snip)

 >>>>> Somebody who knows more Ruby than me should try writing the Zen of
 >>>>> Ruby. Something like:
 >>>> (snip childish parody of Python Zen)
 >>>>
 >>>> Steven, is that any useful ?
 >>> It made me feel good.
 >> Why ???
 >>
 >> You don't like Ruby ? Fine, don't use it. Period. I can't see the point
 >> of all these pissing contests.
 >
 > Criticism of a language is a pissing contest?

Not necessarily. But:

 > Yeah, okay, I was a tad dismissive. I un-apologetically jump to strong
 > impressions about languages based on minimal use

Possibly, yes.

 > -- but I'm also willing
 > to change my mind. Ruby certainly looks to me like it has some nice
 > features. Syntax that looks like Perl isn't one of them though.

Not my cup of tea neither FWIW. But Ruby is nowhere near Perl in terms 
of "line noise".

 >
 >>> Just because Smalltalk had a particular (mis?)feature
 >> You can drop the 'mis' part IMHO. The point of code blocks in Smalltalk
 >> is that once you have something as powerful as the message+code blocks
 >> combo, you just don't need any other 'special form' for control flow.
 >
 > Well, maybe, but remember, programming languages are only partly for
 > communication to the compiler. They also have the requirement to
 > communicate with human programmers as well, and that's even more
 > important, because
 >
 > (1) humans spent a lot more time working with code than compilers do;
 >
 > (2) human programmers charge much more money than compilers do;
 >
 > (3) and you can modify the compiler to suit human needs much more easily
 > than you can modify programmers to suit the compiler's needs.
 >
 > So I'd ask, does Smalltalk's message passing model match the way human
 > beings think?

Does all human beings think the same way ? And aren't human beings able 
to learn new ways ?

Smalltalk's only control flow construct might seem a bit weird at first 
when all you've been exposed to so far are more "traditional" special 
constructs, but it's not hard to learn and is way more uniform and 
flexible than having special constructs for each and any possible 
situation.

One could ask if functional programming or OO "matches the way human 
beings think". From experience, some of us just find FP and / or OO just 
obvious, and some won't never get it.

FWIW, there are quite a few features and idioms in Python that I _now_ 
find readable and obvious, but that would have puzzled me ten years ago. 
This reminds me of a shop where the CTO had forbidden using any OO 
feature of the main language used there because "nobody would understand 
it" (needless to say, I only stayed there a couple weeks...).

 >
 >>> doesn't mean that
 >>> other languages should copy it.
 >> Nope. But OTHO, Python is famous for all the features it copied from
 >> other languages !-)
 >
 > Absolutely! There's nothing wrong with copying *good* features :)

Well... at least when they make sense and integrate smoothly into the 
target language.




From masklinn at masklinn.net  Tue Aug  4 06:15:19 2009
From: masklinn at masklinn.net (Masklinn)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 12:15:19 +0200
Subject: Help understanding the decisions *behind* python?
In-Reply-To: <4a7715ff$0$1641$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
References: 	<988a5f49-7907-4351-bfd0-7bb05e821795@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	
	<4a7715ff$0$1641$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <80C5CBFA-5547-4675-B60E-033C5C60DEDB@masklinn.net>

On 3 Aug 2009, at 18:57 , John Nagle wrote:
> Dave Angel wrote:
>> sturlamolden wrote:
>>> On 20 Jul, 18:27, Phillip B Oldham  wrote:
>>> Tuples are used for passing arguments to and from a function. Common
>>> use of tuples include multiple return values and optional arguments
>>> (*args).
>
>   That's from Mesa, the Xerox PARC language of the 1970s.
>
>   Mesa used tuples for subroutine arguments in a very straightforward
> way.  Every function took one tuple as an argument, written as  
> parameters
> in parentheses separated by commas.
Most statically typed functional languages seem to do pretty much the  
same: uncurried functions really take a tuple as single argument  
rather than multiple arguments, using pattern matching to make it look  
like multiple arguments. Then again, most of them seem to default to  
curried functions these days, which is nice.


From masklinn at masklinn.net  Tue Aug  4 06:21:01 2009
From: masklinn at masklinn.net (Masklinn)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 12:21:01 +0200
Subject: Confessions of a Python fanboy
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	<008e82e8$0$9756$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4a72d7cf$0$25239$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<008eef29$0$9756$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4a77eb69$0$22600$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	
Message-ID: <6FE460F1-7484-4234-9D41-72AAE26AB06E@masklinn.net>

On 4 Aug 2009, at 11:28 , Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> So I'd ask, does Smalltalk's message passing model match the way human
> beings think?
Yes.



From yinon.me at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 06:30:52 2009
From: yinon.me at gmail.com (Yinon Ehrlich)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 03:30:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Obtaining Python version
References: <4a776184$0$1611$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <9c92f02f-eefb-4983-80ce-e5c060adbba6@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 4, 1:19?am, John Nagle  wrote:
> This works, but it seems too cute:
>
> ?>>> pyver = map(int,sys.version.split()[0].split('.'))
> ?>>> print(pyver)
> [2, 6, 1]
>
> Is it guaranteed that the Python version string will be in a form
> suitable for that? ?In other words, does "sys.version" begin
>
> N.N.N other stuff
>
> in all versions, and will it stay that way? ?Are there ever
> non-numeric versions, like "3.2.rc1"?
>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? John Nagle

Hi,
Easy way to test for Python version:
if sys.hexversion >= 0x2060100:
  pass

--  Yinon


From koranthala at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 06:32:51 2009
From: koranthala at gmail.com (koranthala)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 03:32:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Which GUI framework to use?
References: <43a2d0a9-7166-4f7c-9fb8-13a23980c1d7@y10g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<7dq3tvF2d74reU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 4, 11:48?am, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
> koranthala schrieb:
>
> > Hi,
> > ? ?I am creating a very minimal application (a networking app).
> > ? ?I have written the application using Twisted.
> > ? ?Now, I need to put a GUI wrapper on the application.
> > ? ?The application needs a login screen and also it needs to be
> > minimized to system tray. If I right click the image on system tray, I
> > should be able to close it.
> > ? ?It uses some legacy code, so the whole app is written in Python
> > 2.4. Also, my company requires that I use permissive licenses (no GPL
> > - MIT, BSD, LGPL etc ok)
>
> Google this group. The discussions are abundant about this. Keep in mind
> that while Qt changed licenses to LGPL, PyQt didn't and thus you can't
> use it.
>
> > ? ?Which GUI framework is best for this? I tried using Tkinter, but it
> > does not support minimize to system tray (or I couldnt find it).
>
> > ? ?This is my first foray to GUI programming, so other issues that I
> > am worried about -
> > ? ?1. GUI needs a loop, Twisted needs a loop. How can both go ahead
> > without messing each other?
>
> Google is your friend here, too:
>
> http://twistedmatrix.com/projects/core/documentation/howto/choosing-r...
>
> Diez

Sorry about it.
I should have done the homework better.


From lists at cheimes.de  Tue Aug  4 06:58:03 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 12:58:03 +0200
Subject: Is python buffer overflow proof?
In-Reply-To: <4a77c0d9$0$1584$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
References: 		
	<4a77c0d9$0$1584$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: 

John Nagle wrote:
>     A more useful question is whether the standard libraries are being
> run through any of the commercial static checkers for possible buffer
> overflows.

The CPython interpreter is constantly checked with 
http://www.coverity.com/. Although Python is used for critical stuff at 
large companies like Apple, Google and NASA, only a few critical bugs in 
the C code have been found in the last couple of years.



From gregor.lingl at aon.at  Tue Aug  4 07:19:48 2009
From: gregor.lingl at aon.at (Gregor Lingl)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 13:19:48 +0200
Subject: Announcing PythonTurtle
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4a781958$0$1552$91cee783@newsreader04.highway.telekom.at>

cool-RR schrieb:
> Hello,
> 
> I wanted to announce that I have just released my little side project,
> PythonTurtle.
> Here is its website:
> http://pythonturtle.com
> 
> Its goal is to be the lowest-threshold way to learn (or teach) Python.
> You can read more about it and download it on the website.
> 
> Ram.

Hi Ram,

that's indeed a nice starting point for kids to doing turtle graphics, 
although currently it seems to implement only a very small subset of 
Python's turtle module's capabilities, even less than those of the old 
turtle module (that shipped with Python upto 2.5).

Moreover I have to complain that you decided to use different commands 
for the turtle's actions - go instead of forward, turn instead of left 
and right etc. First I think left and right are more intuitive than turn 
as they do not need negative angles as arguments, which might matter for 
young children. Also I cannot see the advantage of cammands like 
visible() or invisible() over showturtle() and hideturtle()

But second even kids - when learning how to program - will arrive at a 
point where it's no more problem to use an editor like IDLE so they
could easily switch to Python's turtle module. That would be even easier 
if they had not to learn a new command set.

Moreover a learning environment like PythonTurtle needs something like 
an editor - at least a simple one - in order to create programs that can 
be run repeatedly. Coding, that's creating programs - not only issuing
a sequence of cammands interactively.

It would be certainly a good thing if one had a similar environment 
using Tkinter, preferably also as part of the standard distribution of 
Python accompanying the turtle module. I think it should not be that 
difficult to create a GUI of this sort combining IDLE's shell window, 
its editor and turtle.py. Alas, at the moment I'm too busy with some 
othr work to start a project like this. Perhaps someone else might be 
interested? I'd enjoy to join a team doing it.

Finally I'd like to stress, that the aims of PythonTurtle and Python's
turtle module are quite different - as one could grasp easily by trying
out the collection of examples at python-turtle-demo.googlecode.com that 
I posted in another posting. Anyway they could very well complement one 
another in some more mature state of development.

Best regards,
Gregor







From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Tue Aug  4 07:23:12 2009
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 13:23:12 +0200
Subject: Is python buffer overflow proof?
References: 
Message-ID: 

* Jizzai (Sun, 02 Aug 2009 13:50:14 GMT)
> Is a _pure_ python program buffer overflow proof?

You cannot create "your own" buffer overflow in Python as you can in C 
and C++ but your code could still be vulnerable if the underlying Python 
construct is written in C. See [1] for instance.

Thorsten
[1] http://www.gentoo.org/security/en/glsa/glsa-200610-07.xml


From IDOL at il.ibm.com  Tue Aug  4 07:25:17 2009
From: IDOL at il.ibm.com (Ido Levy)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 14:25:17 +0300
Subject: How to fetch an XML file using an HTTPS query
Message-ID: 

Hello All 

I am quite new to Python and I would appreciate your advice on the 
following issue.

I am trying to fetch an XML file from a remote server using an HTTPS 
query.

When testing the HTTPS query from the browser after I entered the URL I 
got a pop-up box asking me if I want to "save a file" or "open with".
>From a Python script I tried using urllib but it fails.

I validated that my Python release support https request by using the 
following code and a different URL:
        import urllib
        print urllib.urlopen('https://...').read()
and got the expected result.


When I tried the above code or the following one with the URL that should 
return an XML file 
        import sys
        import urllib
        import urllib2

        headers = {'User-Agent': 'Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; 
rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050923 Firefox/1.0.7', 'Cookie': 
'JSESSIONID=000000000000000000000000000:111111111;Path=/',}
        url = "https://..."
        req = urllib2.Request(url, None, headers)
        urlFH = urllib2.urlopen(req)
        headers = urlFH.info()
        page_content = urlFH.readlines()
        urlFH.close()

        for line in page_content:
                print 'line: %s' % line


I got the following result in both cases:
        
        
        Invalid filter passed.
        


Thanks in Advance

Ido Levy
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From sibtey.mehndi at genpact.com  Tue Aug  4 07:31:42 2009
From: sibtey.mehndi at genpact.com (Mehndi, Sibtey)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 04:31:42 -0700
Subject: how to create a Com object of Picalo Module
Message-ID: <1A343A98C8DAE44A8D9D1BF310F90D5E0140E41E62@GCPWINGGN2EVS11.IND.CORP.AD>

Hi
        I want to use the picalo module in to VB.NET so I have tried to create the COM object of picalo module but I am unable to create.
        Anyone can help me out to create the picalo com object.

Thanks,
Sibtey


This e-mail (and any attachments), is confidential and may be privileged. It may be read, copied and used only
by intended recipients. Unauthorized access to this e-mail (or attachments) and disclosure or copying of its 
contents or any action taken in reliance on it is unlawful. Unintended recipients must notify the sender immediately 
by e-mail/phone & delete it from their system without making any copies or disclosing it to a third person.

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From contact at xavierho.com  Tue Aug  4 07:34:44 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 21:34:44 +1000
Subject: Obtaining Python version
In-Reply-To: <9c92f02f-eefb-4983-80ce-e5c060adbba6@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
References: <4a776184$0$1611$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<9c92f02f-eefb-4983-80ce-e5c060adbba6@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908040434t118a389by1c1132dd82a2700@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 8:30 PM, Yinon Ehrlich  wrote:

> Hi,
> Easy way to test for Python version:
> if sys.hexversion >= 0x2060100:
>  pass
>

Great suggestion. I just tested it on my newly installed Python 3.1 (as of
3.1r31)

>>> import sys
>>> "%X" % sys.hexversion
'30100F0'

That's genius - '301' for Python 3.1, and '00F0' is r31!

I'm definitely going to use this more often in the future.

Cheers,
Xavier
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From contact at xavierho.com  Tue Aug  4 07:37:11 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 21:37:11 +1000
Subject: Obtaining Python version
In-Reply-To: <2d56febf0908040434t118a389by1c1132dd82a2700@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4a776184$0$1611$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<9c92f02f-eefb-4983-80ce-e5c060adbba6@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<2d56febf0908040434t118a389by1c1132dd82a2700@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908040437n52b906e1w471727b39775d3ea@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 9:34 PM, Xavier Ho  wrote:

> ... and '00F0' is r31!
>

Actually, 00F0 is  576 in decimal. Maybe it's the subversion?

Anyhow, it's still good!
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From gregor.lingl at aon.at  Tue Aug  4 07:37:23 2009
From: gregor.lingl at aon.at (Gregor Lingl)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 13:37:23 +0200
Subject: Announcing PythonTurtle
In-Reply-To: <9e3b0c86-3a2a-4bc4-91f3-1b01a05d6b86@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	<9e3b0c86-3a2a-4bc4-91f3-1b01a05d6b86@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a781d85$0$2311$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>

cool-RR schrieb:
> On Aug 4, 7:12 am, John Posner  wrote:
>>> ... I would also venture to say a key-map
>>> 

...
> If you're asking WHY I put it in a wxPython application, the answer is
> pretty much what "r" said: To make it like any other "over the
> counter" Windows application, making people feel more comfortable with
> it.
> Also, not requiring them to install Python+packages, but just
> PythonTurtle.
Fortunately it's not necessary to install 'packages' to use Python's 
turtle module as it is one of it's 'batteries included'. And I think 
it's not so a bad idea to install Python if one want's to learn it, anyway.

Regards,
Gregor

> 
> Ram.


From cocobear.cn at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 08:01:47 2009
From: cocobear.cn at gmail.com (cocobear)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 05:01:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: merge two png pic
References: 
	 
	
	<006617e3-6630-4f04-bff1-99c58dbb6cb5@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<4a77e249$0$2449$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <72d7aad1-1fb7-4b32-a87f-636505b0faa2@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 4, 3:24?pm, News123  wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
>
>
>
> cocobear wrote:
> >> > >> Map = Image.new("RGB", (x,y))
> >> > >> Map.paste(im, box)
> >> > >> Map.paste(im1,box)
>
> >> > >> Map = Map.convert("L", optimize=True, palette=Image.ADAPTIVE)
>
> >> > >> But if thetwopngpicis too big , or if I have tomergemorepic
> >> > >> together, I will get MemoryError:
>
> >>>>> > >> >>> Image.new("RGB",(44544,38656))
>
> >> What do you want to do with such a big image? You will run into the same
> >> limitation when you are trying to display it.
>
> > I want to download a map from google map with high precision
>
> For me it sounds strange to handle such big files.
>
> Is the map you download from Google really that big?
> Mostly Google maps uses normally tiles of sizes 256x256 pixel, wich you
> have to compose to get the ?big image.
>

The map I downloaded from Google is small(256x256). These small maps
will compose a big image.



> If your problem is to combine tiles with different palettes, then you
> should pobably look at a way to ?'unify' the palette of all tiles befor
> combining them.
>

I think it is impossible to 'unify' all this tiles.


> Being no expert of PIL I don't know whether this is easily possible though?
>
> bye
>
> N



From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Tue Aug  4 08:14:40 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 14:14:40 +0200
Subject: Which GUI framework to use?
In-Reply-To: <43a2d0a9-7166-4f7c-9fb8-13a23980c1d7@y10g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
References: <43a2d0a9-7166-4f7c-9fb8-13a23980c1d7@y10g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <200908041414.41026.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Tuesday 04 August 2009 06:09:05 koranthala wrote:
> Hi,
>    I am creating a very minimal application (a networking app).
>    I have written the application using Twisted.
>    Now, I need to put a GUI wrapper on the application.
>    The application needs a login screen and also it needs to be
> minimized to system tray. If I right click the image on system tray, I
> should be able to close it.
>    It uses some legacy code, so the whole app is written in Python
> 2.4. Also, my company requires that I use permissive licenses (no GPL
> - MIT, BSD, LGPL etc ok)
>
>    Which GUI framework is best for this? I tried using Tkinter, but it
> does not support minimize to system tray (or I couldnt find it).

look at iconify, and at withdraw

- Hendrik


From ram.rachum at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 08:19:48 2009
From: ram.rachum at gmail.com (cool-RR)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 05:19:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Announcing PythonTurtle
References: 
	<4a781958$0$1552$91cee783@newsreader04.highway.telekom.at>
Message-ID: <766a3973-6960-4500-9c7c-88d5261b823c@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>


> Hi Ram,
>
> that's indeed a nice starting point for kids to doing turtle graphics,
> although currently it seems to implement only a very small subset of
> Python's turtle module's capabilities, even less than those of the old
> turtle module (that shipped with Python upto 2.5).
>

I agree - an undo feature for example would be nice and it's something
I would like to do in a future version. Other than that though, I
don't think having many turtle-functions is so important. I think the
important thing is for the student to build complex things from simple
building blocks.

> Moreover I have to complain that you decided to use different commands
> for the turtle's actions - go instead of forward, turn instead of left
> and right etc. First I think left and right are more intuitive than turn
> as they do not need negative angles as arguments, which might matter for
> young children. Also I cannot see the advantage of cammands like
> visible() or invisible() over showturtle() and hideturtle()
> But second even kids - when learning how to program - will arrive at a
> point where it's no more problem to use an editor like IDLE so they
> could easily switch to Python's turtle module. That would be even easier
> if they had not to learn a new command set.
> Moreover a learning environment like PythonTurtle needs something like
> an editor - at least a simple one - in order to create programs that can
> be run repeatedly. Coding, that's creating programs - not only issuing
> a sequence of cammands interactively.
>

A text editor would be a good feature for future versions.
Regarding the naming of functions: I named them in the way that seemed
best to me. You seem not to agree, you like the way your functions are
named better, and there's little point in arguing over which
convention is truly better. The convention I chose is the one that
seemed ideal to me.
I did consider naming the functions the same way you did for
consistency, but I decided not to compromise the quality of
PythonTurtle just to be compatible with a module that my users may not
even use.

> It would be certainly a good thing if one had a similar environment
> using Tkinter, preferably also as part of the standard distribution of
> Python accompanying the turtle module. I think it should not be that
> difficult to create a GUI of this sort combining IDLE's shell window,
> its editor and turtle.py. Alas, at the moment I'm too busy with some
> othr work to start a project like this. Perhaps someone else might be
> interested? I'd enjoy to join a team doing it.

I agree that it shouldn't be difficult; The question is whether
someone will step up and do it.

> Finally I'd like to stress, that the aims of PythonTurtle and Python's
> turtle module are quite different - as one could grasp easily by trying
> out the collection of examples at python-turtle-demo.googlecode.com that
> I posted in another posting. Anyway they could very well complement one
> another in some more mature state of development.
>
> Best regards,
> Gregor

Thank you for your feedback Gregor.

Ram Rachum.


From thangappan143 at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 08:25:30 2009
From: thangappan143 at gmail.com (Thangappan.M)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 17:55:30 +0530
Subject: Problem in Installing PyGreSQL
Message-ID: <7aa29e790908040525p562245c8v95d5a5d875fe606f@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all,

While installing PyGreSQl module in my machine I got the error as pg_config
command not found.
I am not a super user.
 how can I install this pg_config tool.


-- 
Regards,
Thangappan.M
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From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Tue Aug  4 08:27:27 2009
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 07:27:27 -0500
Subject: Is python buffer overflow proof?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 				<7dnissF2bthr0U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
Message-ID: <4A78292F.8040907@tim.thechases.com>

Marcus Wanner wrote:
> On 8/3/2009 3:45 AM, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
>> But you can cast the resulting pointer to an array of larger size, and 
>> there you are.
>
> Ah, that makes sense. I had forgotten about ctypes.cast().

You *can* shoot yourself in the foot with Python, you just have 
to aim much more carefully than you do with C/C++.

-tkc




From gregor.lingl at aon.at  Tue Aug  4 08:45:47 2009
From: gregor.lingl at aon.at (Gregor Lingl)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 14:45:47 +0200
Subject: Announcing PythonTurtle
In-Reply-To: <766a3973-6960-4500-9c7c-88d5261b823c@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<4a781958$0$1552$91cee783@newsreader04.highway.telekom.at>
	<766a3973-6960-4500-9c7c-88d5261b823c@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a782d7b$0$1549$91cee783@newsreader04.highway.telekom.at>

cool-RR schrieb:
>> Hi Ram,
>>
>> that's indeed a nice starting point for kids to doing turtle graphics,
>> although currently it seems to implement only a very small subset of
>> Python's turtle module's capabilities, even less than those of the old
>> turtle module (that shipped with Python upto 2.5).
...
> A text editor would be a good feature for future versions.
> Regarding the naming of functions: I named them in the way that seemed
> best to me. You seem not to agree, you like the way your functions are
> named better, and there's little point in arguing over which
> convention is truly better. The convention I chose is the one that
> seemed ideal to me.
> I did consider naming the functions the same way you did for
> consistency, but I decided not to compromise the quality of
> PythonTurtle just to be compatible with a module that my users may not
> even use.

That's the advantage of not developing for the standard library. In fact 
those elementary commands you use were present already in the old turtle 
module. When I decided to extend the old turtle module a primary 
requirement was that it remains 100% compatible to the old one. New 
versions of a module in the standard library must not break code of 
previous users of that module. In short: I did not name these functions 
but I had to use the names that already were there.

Nevertheless I'd prefer left and right over turn even today, especially 
for kids as I argued before.

Regards,
Gregor

> 
>> It would be certainly a good thing if one had a similar environment
>> using Tkinter, preferably also as part of the standard distribution of
>> Python accompanying the turtle module. I think it should not be that
>> difficult to create a GUI of this sort combining IDLE's shell window,
>> its editor and turtle.py. Alas, at the moment I'm too busy with some
>> othr work to start a project like this. Perhaps someone else might be
>> interested? I'd enjoy to join a team doing it.
> 
> I agree that it shouldn't be difficult; The question is whether
> someone will step up and do it.
> 
>> Finally I'd like to stress, that the aims of PythonTurtle and Python's
>> turtle module are quite different - as one could grasp easily by trying
>> out the collection of examples at python-turtle-demo.googlecode.com that
>> I posted in another posting. Anyway they could very well complement one
>> another in some more mature state of development.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Gregor
> 
> Thank you for your feedback Gregor.
> 
> Ram Rachum.


From darcy at druid.net  Tue Aug  4 08:48:56 2009
From: darcy at druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 08:48:56 -0400
Subject: Problem in installing PyGreSQL
In-Reply-To: <7f0b4d2b1d5bd3f3057ead3b029059b9@preisshare.net>
References: <7aa29e790908032045p3b52a633m8d0e366a0f648b@mail.gmail.com>
	<7f0b4d2b1d5bd3f3057ead3b029059b9@preisshare.net>
Message-ID: <20090804084856.b825967a.darcy@druid.net>

On Tue, 04 Aug 2009 00:42:25 -0400
David Lyon  wrote:
> > Then I tried to download the module.But I am not able to download it.
> 
> Did none of the links here work?
> 
> http://www.pygresql.org/readme.html#where-to-get

The RPM seems to be missing.  I am currently trying to find one.  I
don't run Linux myself and sometimes forget to check that we have a
working RPM.

> > I am not a super user.
> > I am using Linux debian machine
> > Python version is 2.4.4
> 
> Try building it from source.

That will work of course and it is a small enough package that it
should build painlessly.  There is a working setup.py.

> Otherwise try getting it from pypi

It is also missing the RPM.

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain          |  Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
+1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.


From fatkinson at mishmash.com  Tue Aug  4 08:58:46 2009
From: fatkinson at mishmash.com (Fred Atkinson)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 05:58:46 -0700
Subject: Seeding the rand() Generator
References: 
	
	
	
	
	<0b7c702f-5775-418e-8fc5-2f9df7487867@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <52cg759c3kg732ikns1emlgb5c3joom4md@4ax.com>

On Tue, 04 Aug 2009 07:12:30 GMT, Jarkko Torppa
 wrote:

>On 2009-08-04, Fred Atkinson  wrote:
>> On Mon, 3 Aug 2009 20:00:08 -0700 (PDT), Carl Banks
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>If you don't "get" why this is a MySQL question and not a Python
>>>question, then you need to learn more about what you are doing.
>>
>> 	I wouldn't agree.  
>>
>> 	I tried using the same command I used when I did this in PHP.
>> That command was: mt_srand(date("w"))
>>
>> 	It was a PHP command that seeds the MySQL random function,
>> according to the folks on the PHP newsgroup.  
>
>It seems that they lied to you. Did you actually try that ?
>
>> 	I'm trying to figure out what the Python equivalent of that
>> is.  
>
>Python equivalent of that is random.seed(x), if PHP docs are to be believed.
>
>> 	Now do you see?  
>
>What you acutally want is "select *,rand(3) as rand from table
>order by rand" or something like that. That 3 is the seed in there.

Yes, I actually tried that and it worked.  

	Things got much more random after I started using it. 

	Regards, 



						Fred 


From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Tue Aug  4 09:03:55 2009
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 09:03:55 -0400
Subject: Problem in installing PyGreSQL
In-Reply-To: <20090804084856.b825967a.darcy@druid.net>
References: <7aa29e790908032045p3b52a633m8d0e366a0f648b@mail.gmail.com>
	<7f0b4d2b1d5bd3f3057ead3b029059b9@preisshare.net>
	<20090804084856.b825967a.darcy@druid.net>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 8:48 AM, D'Arcy J.M. Cain wrote:
> On Tue, 04 Aug 2009 00:42:25 -0400
> David Lyon  wrote:
>> > Then I tried to download the module.But I am not able to download it.
>>
>> Did none of the links here work?
>>
>> http://www.pygresql.org/readme.html#where-to-get
>
> The RPM seems to be missing. ?I am currently trying to find one. ?I
> don't run Linux myself and sometimes forget to check that we have a
> working RPM.
>
>> > I am not a super user.
>> > I am using Linux debian machine
>> > Python version is 2.4.4
>>
>> Try building it from source.
>
> That will work of course and it is a small enough package that it
> should build painlessly. ?There is a working setup.py.
>
>> Otherwise try getting it from pypi
>
> It is also missing the RPM.

Doesn't matter here. Debians use DEBs (DEBian packages), not RPMs (for
the Red Hat Package Manager). Either way, the OP can't install system
level packages. That's what the comment about not being a super user
meant.

>
> --
> D'Arcy J.M. Cain  ? ? ? ? | ?Democracy is three wolves
> http://www.druid.net/darcy/ ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?| ?and a sheep voting on
> +1 416 425 1212 ? ? (DoD#0082) ? ?(eNTP) ? | ?what's for dinner.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From mydevforums at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 09:15:24 2009
From: mydevforums at gmail.com (IronyOfLife)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 06:15:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python configuration question when python scripts are executed 
	using Appweb as web server.
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 3, 8:42?pm, "Gabriel Genellina"  wrote:
> En Mon, 03 Aug 2009 11:04:07 -0300, IronyOfLife  ?
> escribi?:
>
> > I have installed python 2.6.2 in windows xp professional machine. I
> > have set the following environment variables -- PYTHONPATH. It points
> > to following windows folders: python root folder, the lib folder and
> > lib-tk folder.
>
> Why? Did you read it somewhere? Usually there is no need to set the ?
> PYTHONPATH variable at all; remove it.
>
> > I have configured IIS to execute python scripts.
>
> > I do not have any issues executing python scripts from the python
> > interpreter window or from the browser using IIS as the web server.
>
> Try again after PYTHONPATH is removed, and make sure you can import all ?
> the required modules from the Python console. Only then try to run the cgi ?
> scripts.
>
> > However, when I use the open source Appweb web browser to execute
> > python scripts. It is able to execute only simple script without
> > issues. [...]However I am not able to execute python scripts that ?
> > contain import
> > statements. I need to point out here that i do not have issue with
> > using os or sys packages. When I tried to execute the sample client
> > script that came with the gnutls wrapper for python, I got error. I
> > narrowed it down to the "from ... import" line in the example.
>
> > from gnutls.crypto import *
> > from gnutls.connection import *
>
> Check that the above lines work fine from inside the Python console.
> If not, something went wrong when you installed the gnutls Python package.
>
> > Next step, in order to debug, I used the module finder to see what is
> > happening. To being with I used the module finder to find out the
> > modules loaded for the simple script hello.py.
>
> Debugging cgi scripts isn't easy sometimes; try adding this line at the ?
> start of your script:
>
> import cgitb;cgitb.enable()
>
> You should get a nicely formatted stack trace whenever an exception is ?
> raised. If you get an HTTP error instead (like 500 Internal Server Error) ?
> it's likely a syntax error, you must fix it before continuing.
> Then, you may find that modulefinder is no more needed.
>
> > import pdb
> > pdb.set_trace()
>
> pdb cannot work inside a CGI script; remove that.
>
> > Once again, let me stress that this issue is happening only when I use
> > appweb as the web server.
>
> I don't know appweb, but if you first make sure the script works from the ?
> command line, it should be much easier to make it work in the web server.
>
> --
> Gabriel Genellina

Hi Gabriel

Thanks for your reply.

As I had mentioned in my original post, I am able to successfully
execute gnutls client python script while using python interpreter and
from the web browser while using IIS as web server. The scripts were
not executing successfully only when I used AppWeb as web server.

Setting PYTHONPATH environment variables is mentioned in Python docs.

I figured out how to get the debug statements to write to Appweb logs
and from there I found out the issue to be ImportError. Python does
provide a very cryptic error message. "(, ImportError('DLL load failed: The specified
module could not be found.',), )"

I then downloaded filemon (as suggested in another forum) utility tool
for windows environment. Using the tool I found that python.exe is
trying to load gnutls related dlls from system path and a list of
folders (I dont know why it didnt try to pick up the dlls from all the
path provided in PATH environment variable) none of which contain the
gnutls related dlls.

I solved the issue temporarily by copying the gnutls related dlls to
the path searched by python.exe

Now my gnutls client python script executes successfully when i use
Appweb as the web server,

NOTE: When I use python interpreter or IIS as webserver the path where
python.exe looks for gnutls related dll's are different. In this
scenario python.exe is able to successfully load the required dlls.


From davea at ieee.org  Tue Aug  4 09:29:35 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 09:29:35 -0400
Subject: Newbie Question regarding __init__()
In-Reply-To: 
References: 				<6ccf5dbe-4b71-4159-88bb-c6a14aa785a9@k26g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>		<01bcf8b8-687c-4bf4-acbb-b059a480d382@f33g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>	<4A77A43D.4000709@ieee.org>
	
Message-ID: <4A7837BF.6070903@ieee.org>

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Mon, 03 Aug 2009 23:00:13 -0400, Dave Angel 
> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>
>   
>> To throw away the result of an expression in Python is even easier.  
>> Just don't use it.
>>        func1() and func2()
>> is a valid expression whose result is not used.  And func2()'s result is 
>> therefore irrelevant.  But shortcircuiting means that func2() is only 
>> called if func1() returned False (or something equivalent to it, like 0 
>> or an empty list)
>>     
>
> 	Backwards...
>
> 	When using "and", the RHS is only evaluated if the LHS evaluates to
> TRUE (if the LHS is FALSE, why go further, since False and anything ->
> False). 
>
> Conversely, when using "or", the RHS is only evaluated if the LHS is
> FALSE.
>   
You're right of course.  Slip of the keyboard.

DaveA


From nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 09:32:55 2009
From: nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 13:32:55 GMT
Subject: Is python buffer overflow proof?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

Thorsten Kampe:

> You cannot create "your own" buffer overflow in Python as you can in C 
> and C++ but your code could still be vulnerable if the underlying Python 
> construct is written in C.

   Python's standard library does now include unsafe constructs.

import ctypes
x = '1234'
# Munging byte 1 OK
ctypes.memset(x, 1, 1)
print(x)
# Next line writes beyond end of variable and crashes
ctypes.memset(x, 1, 20000)
print(x)

   Neil


From philip at semanchuk.com  Tue Aug  4 09:34:17 2009
From: philip at semanchuk.com (Philip Semanchuk)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 09:34:17 -0400
Subject: Problem in Installing PyGreSQL
In-Reply-To: <7aa29e790908040525p562245c8v95d5a5d875fe606f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7aa29e790908040525p562245c8v95d5a5d875fe606f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 


On Aug 4, 2009, at 8:25 AM, Thangappan.M wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> While installing PyGreSQl module in my machine I got the error as  
> pg_config
> command not found.
> I am not a super user.
> how can I install this pg_config tool.


Thangappan,
pg_config is part of PostgreSQL. It reports various pieces of  
information about the Postgres installation, like the BINDIR,  
INCLUDEDIR, compile flags, version etc. If PostgreSQL is installed on  
your machine, then I'll bet that pg_config is also installed, but it  
isn't on your path so the PyGreSQl installer can't find it.

When you're having trouble installing a specific package like  
PyGreSQl, you'll probably get better answers by posting your questions  
to a specific mailing list:
http://mailman.vex.net/mailman/listinfo/pygresql

By searching the archives you might even find that your question has  
been answered already.

Good luck
Philip


From tycho at tycho.ws  Tue Aug  4 09:41:30 2009
From: tycho at tycho.ws (Tycho Andersen)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 08:41:30 -0500
Subject: How to fetch an XML file using an HTTPS query
In-Reply-To: <49b3a7400908040638h46d4e4dcxe5cd4120e9c2c7a1@mail.gmail.com>
References: 
	<49b3a7400908040638h46d4e4dcxe5cd4120e9c2c7a1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49b3a7400908040641l5f5daaa8v374041b7fbac442a@mail.gmail.com>

Blah, forgot to include the list. When is python-list going to get Reply-To?

\t

On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 8:38 AM, Tycho Andersen wrote:
> Hi Ido,
>
> On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 6:25 AM, Ido Levy wrote:
>> [snip]
>> I got the following result in both cases:
>> ? ? ? ? 
>> ? ? ? ? 
>> ? ? ? ? Invalid filter passed.
>> ? ? ? ? 
>
> To me, this doesn't look like a python problem: the application was
> successfully connected to and returned a result. The problem you're
> experiencing is that it wasn't the result you expected. Are you sure
> you're setting the right headers, posting the right form values, etc.
> and giving the app exactly what it wants?
>
> \t
>


From darcy at druid.net  Tue Aug  4 09:53:40 2009
From: darcy at druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 09:53:40 -0400
Subject: Problem in installing PyGreSQL
In-Reply-To: 
References: <7aa29e790908032045p3b52a633m8d0e366a0f648b@mail.gmail.com>
	<7f0b4d2b1d5bd3f3057ead3b029059b9@preisshare.net>
	<20090804084856.b825967a.darcy@druid.net>
	
Message-ID: <20090804095340.67e2de0f.darcy@druid.net>

On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 09:03:55 -0400
Benjamin Kaplan  wrote:
> Doesn't matter here. Debians use DEBs (DEBian packages), not RPMs (for
> the Red Hat Package Manager). Either way, the OP can't install system
> level packages. That's what the comment about not being a super user
> meant.

Urk!  I thought that all the Linux distros used RPMs.  Maybe I should
just remove that link and let each distro provide their own package.
As long as it was just one I could take some steps to make sure that I
wasn't distributing malware but the more packages I supply that I can't
personally test, the more uncomfortable I get.

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain          |  Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
+1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.


From darcy at druid.net  Tue Aug  4 09:55:47 2009
From: darcy at druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 09:55:47 -0400
Subject: Problem in installing PyGreSQL
In-Reply-To: 
References: <7aa29e790908032045p3b52a633m8d0e366a0f648b@mail.gmail.com>
	<7f0b4d2b1d5bd3f3057ead3b029059b9@preisshare.net>
	<20090804084856.b825967a.darcy@druid.net>
	
Message-ID: <20090804095547.a5274e22.darcy@druid.net>

On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 09:03:55 -0400
Benjamin Kaplan  wrote:
> Doesn't matter here. Debians use DEBs (DEBian packages), not RPMs (for
> the Red Hat Package Manager). Either way, the OP can't install system
> level packages. That's what the comment about not being a super user
> meant.

By the way, you don't have to be super user to install PyGreSQL.  You
just need SU if you want to install it system wide.  PyGreSQL doesn't
require any special privileges to run.

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain          |  Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
+1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.


From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Tue Aug  4 10:02:23 2009
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 10:02:23 -0400
Subject: Problem in installing PyGreSQL
In-Reply-To: <20090804095547.a5274e22.darcy@druid.net>
References: <7aa29e790908032045p3b52a633m8d0e366a0f648b@mail.gmail.com>
	<7f0b4d2b1d5bd3f3057ead3b029059b9@preisshare.net>
	<20090804084856.b825967a.darcy@druid.net>
	
	<20090804095547.a5274e22.darcy@druid.net>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 9:55 AM, D'Arcy J.M. Cain wrote:
> On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 09:03:55 -0400
> Benjamin Kaplan  wrote:
>> Doesn't matter here. Debians use DEBs (DEBian packages), not RPMs (for
>> the Red Hat Package Manager). Either way, the OP can't install system
>> level packages. That's what the comment about not being a super user
>> meant.
>
> By the way, you don't have to be super user to install PyGreSQL. ?You
> just need SU if you want to install it system wide. ?PyGreSQL doesn't
> require any special privileges to run.

Right, but the packages install system-wide. That's why he could
compile it himself but not use the package.
>
> --
> D'Arcy J.M. Cain  ? ? ? ? | ?Democracy is three wolves
> http://www.druid.net/darcy/ ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?| ?and a sheep voting on
> +1 416 425 1212 ? ? (DoD#0082) ? ?(eNTP) ? | ?what's for dinner.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From darcy at druid.net  Tue Aug  4 10:14:49 2009
From: darcy at druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 10:14:49 -0400
Subject: Problem in installing PyGreSQL
In-Reply-To: 
References: <7aa29e790908032045p3b52a633m8d0e366a0f648b@mail.gmail.com>
	<7f0b4d2b1d5bd3f3057ead3b029059b9@preisshare.net>
	<20090804084856.b825967a.darcy@druid.net>
	
	<20090804095547.a5274e22.darcy@druid.net>
	
Message-ID: <20090804101449.79cd4522.darcy@druid.net>

On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 10:02:23 -0400
Benjamin Kaplan  wrote:
> > By the way, you don't have to be super user to install PyGreSQL. ?You
> > just need SU if you want to install it system wide. ?PyGreSQL doesn't
> > require any special privileges to run.
> 
> Right, but the packages install system-wide. That's why he could
> compile it himself but not use the package.

Exactly so don't install the package.  Do "python setup.py build" and
put the three files that are built (_pg.so, pg.py and pgdb.py) into any
directory and point PYTHONPATH to it.

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain          |  Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
+1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Tue Aug  4 10:17:39 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 15:17:39 +0100
Subject: Obtaining Python version
In-Reply-To: <2d56febf0908040437n52b906e1w471727b39775d3ea@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4a776184$0$1611$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>	<9c92f02f-eefb-4983-80ce-e5c060adbba6@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>	<2d56febf0908040434t118a389by1c1132dd82a2700@mail.gmail.com>
	<2d56febf0908040437n52b906e1w471727b39775d3ea@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A784303.2070804@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Xavier Ho wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 9:34 PM, Xavier Ho  > wrote:
> 
>     ...
>      and '00F0' is r31!
> 
> 
> Actually, 00F0 is  576 in decimal. Maybe it's the subversion?
> 
0x00F0 is 240.

> Anyhow, it's still good!
> 



From contact at xavierho.com  Tue Aug  4 10:39:56 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 00:39:56 +1000
Subject: Obtaining Python version
In-Reply-To: <4A784303.2070804@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <4a776184$0$1611$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<9c92f02f-eefb-4983-80ce-e5c060adbba6@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<2d56febf0908040434t118a389by1c1132dd82a2700@mail.gmail.com>
	<2d56febf0908040437n52b906e1w471727b39775d3ea@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A784303.2070804@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908040739i79d4bcc9o461d6641c68f5fb9@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 12:17 AM, MRAB  wrote:

> 0x00F0 is 240.


... Right. I wonder where my brain is. *searches pocket*

So, what am I doing wrong here?

>>> int(str(0x00F0), 16)
576

Cheers,
-Xav
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From darcy at druid.net  Tue Aug  4 10:44:43 2009
From: darcy at druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 10:44:43 -0400
Subject: Obtaining Python version
In-Reply-To: <2d56febf0908040739i79d4bcc9o461d6641c68f5fb9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4a776184$0$1611$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<9c92f02f-eefb-4983-80ce-e5c060adbba6@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<2d56febf0908040434t118a389by1c1132dd82a2700@mail.gmail.com>
	<2d56febf0908040437n52b906e1w471727b39775d3ea@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A784303.2070804@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<2d56febf0908040739i79d4bcc9o461d6641c68f5fb9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090804104443.72ebffba.darcy@druid.net>

On Wed, 5 Aug 2009 00:39:56 +1000
Xavier Ho  wrote:
> So, what am I doing wrong here?
> 
> >>> int(str(0x00F0), 16)

Look at the output of str(0x00F0) for a clue.

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain          |  Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
+1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.


From jjposner at optimum.net  Tue Aug  4 10:45:24 2009
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 10:45:24 -0400
Subject: Announcing PythonTurtle
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A784984.6000903@optimum.net>


> Certainly John- although I have not embedded the turtle module at all,
> I just wrote my own.

OK, then why the statements "from turtle import *" in the modules 
turtleprocess.py and turtlewidget.py?

Tx,
John



From contact at xavierho.com  Tue Aug  4 10:48:39 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 00:48:39 +1000
Subject: Obtaining Python version
In-Reply-To: <2d56febf0908040747s1a02f975ke383323e68732e6e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4a776184$0$1611$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<9c92f02f-eefb-4983-80ce-e5c060adbba6@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<2d56febf0908040434t118a389by1c1132dd82a2700@mail.gmail.com>
	<2d56febf0908040437n52b906e1w471727b39775d3ea@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A784303.2070804@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<2d56febf0908040739i79d4bcc9o461d6641c68f5fb9@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090804104443.72ebffba.darcy@druid.net>
	<2d56febf0908040747s1a02f975ke383323e68732e6e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908040748y41c977c3k96d4437ed35edad@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 12:44 AM, D'Arcy J.M. Cain  wrote:

> On Wed, 5 Aug 2009 00:39:56 +1000
>> Xavier Ho  wrote:
>> > So, what am I doing wrong here?
>> >
>> > >>> int(str(0x00F0), 16)
>>
>> Look at the output of str(0x00F0) for a clue.
>>
>
> ... Wow. I *am* slow tonight. Thanks.
>
> >>> int('00F0', 16)
> 240
>

(oops.)
I was mixing the hex literals and the string literals.

Thanks a bunch.
-Xav
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From Samnsparky at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 11:25:28 2009
From: Samnsparky at gmail.com (Sparky)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 08:25:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: WindowsError: exception: access violation writing 0x00000000
References: <73c6c4f5-a00b-4f95-a85d-0f257b2f001a@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 3, 3:29?pm, Sparky  wrote:
> Hello! I am using cTypes on Windows to interface with a dll and I keep
> getting an error when I execute this method:
>
> def eDigitalIn(self, channel, idNum = None, demo = 0, readD=0):
> ? ? ? ? """
> ? ? ? ? Name: U12.eAnalogIn(channel, idNum = None, demo = 0, readD=0)
> ? ? ? ? Args: See section 4.4 of the User's Guide
> ? ? ? ? Desc: This is a simplified version of Counter. Reads & resets
> the counter (CNT).
> ? ? ? ? """
>
> ? ? ? ? if idNum is None:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? idNum = self.id
>
> ? ? ? ? ljid = ctypes.c_long(idNum)
> ? ? ? ? state = ctypes.c_long(999)
>
> ? ? ? ? ecode = staticLib.ECount(ctypes.byref(ljid), demo, channel,
> readD, ctypes.byref(state))
>
> ? ? ? ? if ecode != 0: raise LabJackException(ecode)
> ? ? ? ? if ljid == -1: raise LabJackException(-1, "LabJack not
> found.")
>
> ? ? ? ? return {"idnum":ljid.value, "state":state.value}
>
> Here is the error message:
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? File "", line 1, in 
> ? ? device.eDigitalIn(0)
> ? File "C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Documents\Python
> \LabJackPython_new\u12.py", line 118, in eDigitalIn
> ? ? ecode = staticLib.ECount(ctypes.byref(ljid), demo, channel, readD,
> ctypes.byref(state))
> WindowsError: exception: access violation writing 0x00000000
>
> Here is the signature of the method (which is known to work with C++
> programs):
>
> long _stdcall EDigitalIn(long *idnum,
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?long demo,
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?long channel,
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?long readD,
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?long *state);
>
> staticLib is declared with staticLib = ctypes.windll.LoadLibrary
> ("ljackuw").
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Thanks,
> Sam

One more thing, I seem to be getting back incorrect values for doubles
passed by reference. Any suggestions? I am on a 64-bit machine but I
should think that should not make a difference.

Thanks again,
Sam


From philip at semanchuk.com  Tue Aug  4 11:47:31 2009
From: philip at semanchuk.com (Philip Semanchuk)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 11:47:31 -0400
Subject: WindowsError: exception: access violation writing 0x00000000
In-Reply-To: 
References: <73c6c4f5-a00b-4f95-a85d-0f257b2f001a@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <2231CCC9-1EDA-4923-8110-20015F3BDA6E@semanchuk.com>


On Aug 4, 2009, at 11:25 AM, Sparky wrote:

> On Aug 3, 3:29 pm, Sparky  wrote:
>> Hello! I am using cTypes on Windows to interface with a dll and I  
>> keep
>> getting an error when I execute this method:
>>
>> def eDigitalIn(self, channel, idNum = None, demo = 0, readD=0):
>>         """
>>         Name: U12.eAnalogIn(channel, idNum = None, demo = 0, readD=0)
>>         Args: See section 4.4 of the User's Guide
>>         Desc: This is a simplified version of Counter. Reads & resets
>> the counter (CNT).
>>         """
>>
>>         if idNum is None:
>>             idNum = self.id
>>
>>         ljid = ctypes.c_long(idNum)
>>         state = ctypes.c_long(999)
>>
>>         ecode = staticLib.ECount(ctypes.byref(ljid), demo, channel,
>> readD, ctypes.byref(state))
>>
>>         if ecode != 0: raise LabJackException(ecode)
>>         if ljid == -1: raise LabJackException(-1, "LabJack not
>> found.")
>>
>>         return {"idnum":ljid.value, "state":state.value}
>>
>> Here is the error message:
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "", line 1, in 
>>     device.eDigitalIn(0)
>>   File "C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Documents\Python
>> \LabJackPython_new\u12.py", line 118, in eDigitalIn
>>     ecode = staticLib.ECount(ctypes.byref(ljid), demo, channel,  
>> readD,
>> ctypes.byref(state))
>> WindowsError: exception: access violation writing 0x00000000
>>
>> Here is the signature of the method (which is known to work with C++
>> programs):
>>
>> long _stdcall EDigitalIn(long *idnum,
>>                                            long demo,
>>                                            long channel,
>>                                            long readD,
>>                                            long *state);
>>
>> staticLib is declared with staticLib = ctypes.windll.LoadLibrary
>> ("ljackuw").
>>
>> Any ideas?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Sam
>
> One more thing, I seem to be getting back incorrect values for doubles
> passed by reference. Any suggestions? I am on a 64-bit machine but I
> should think that should not make a difference.

Hi Sam,
ctypes is pretty straightforward, and I wouldn't expect it to break on  
something simple. I looked over your code (warning -- I am a ctypes  
novice) and it looks OK to me. If you're getting null pointer writes  
I'd suspect that the call signature isn't what you think it is,  
perhaps due to a lack of an extern "C" declaration or something like  
that. In short, I don't think this is a problem in your Python code or  
in ctypes.

But since your Python code is the easiest to change, why not do a  
quick test of a minimal example?

def eDigitalIn_test_version(self, channel, idNum = None, demo = 0,  
readD=0):
         ljid = ctypes.c_long(42)
         state = ctypes.c_long(999)

         ecode = staticLib.ECount(ctypes.byref(ljid), 0, 0, 0,  
ctypes.byref(state))

         print ecode


Does that work any better?

You could also try replacing the byref() calls with pointers created  
by ctypes.pointer(). But I suspect that all this will do is give you  
confidence that it isn't your Python code that's wrong.

You might want to write a minimal C program that invokes ECount. That  
would help you to prove whether or not you have a working C (not C++!)  
interface for your function.

HTH
Philip






From cool-rr at cool-rr.com  Tue Aug  4 12:04:17 2009
From: cool-rr at cool-rr.com (cool-RR)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 19:04:17 +0300
Subject: Announcing PythonTurtle
In-Reply-To: <4A784984.6000903@optimum.net>
References:  
	<4A784984.6000903@optimum.net>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 5:45 PM, John Posner  wrote:

>
>  Certainly John- although I have not embedded the turtle module at all,
>> I just wrote my own.
>>
>
> OK, then why the statements "from turtle import *" in the modules
> turtleprocess.py and turtlewidget.py?
>
> Tx,
> John
>
>
It's from a module turtle.py in my own PythonTurtle package.

-- 
Sincerely,
Ram Rachum
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From no.email at please.post  Tue Aug  4 12:07:34 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 16:07:34 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: kw param question
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

In  Steven D'Aprano  writes:

>On Mon, 03 Aug 2009 19:59:23 +0000, kj wrote:

>> I want to write a decorator that, among other things, returns a function
>> that has one additional keyword parameter, say foo=None.
>> 
>> When I try
>> 
>> def my_decorator(f):
>>     # blah, blah
>>     def wrapper(*p, foo=None, **kw):
>>         x = f(*p, **kw)
>>         if (foo):
>>             # blah, blah
>>         else
>>             # blah blah
>>     return wrapper
>> 
>> ...i get a syntax error where it says "foo=None".  I get similar errors
>> with everything else I've tried.
>> 
>> Is is possible to do this in Python?

>Have you tried this under Python 2.6 or 3.0?

>I've run into similar issues, because you can't have keyword-only 
>arguments in Python 2.5 :(

>My solution was to create a decorator that faked them. The docstring is 
>longer than the decorator itself.


>from functools import wraps

>def keywords(**defaults):
>    """Return a decorator which decorates a function to accept keyword
>    arguments.

>    Python 2.5 and earlier don't allow keyword-only arguments for 
>    non-builtin functions. The obvious syntax:

>    def func(x, *args, key=None, word='parrot'):

>    is not permitted. As a work-around, write your function something
>    like the following example:

>    >>> @keywords(key=None, word='parrot')
>    ... def func(x, y=0, *args, **kwargs):
>    ...     # Inside the function, we can guarantee that kwargs['key'] and
>    ...     # kwargs['word'] both exist, and no other keys.
>    ...     print "x=%s, y=%s, args=%s" % (x, y, args)
>    ...     if kwargs['key'] is None: msg = "kwargs['key'] is None"
>    ...     else: msg = "kwargs['key'] is something else"
>    ...     msg += " and kwargs['word'] is %r" % kwargs['word']
>    ...     print msg
>    ...

>    When you call func, if you don't provide a keyword-only argument, the
>    default will be substituted:

>    >>> func(1, 2, 3, 4)
>    x=1, y=2, args=(3, 4)
>    kwargs['key'] is None and kwargs['word'] is 'parrot'
>    >>> func(1)
>    x=1, y=0, args=()
>    kwargs['key'] is None and kwargs['word'] is 'parrot'


>    Naturally you can provide your own values for keyword-only arguments:

>    >>> func(1, 2, 3, word='spam')
>    x=1, y=2, args=(3,)
>    kwargs['key'] is None and kwargs['word'] is 'spam'
>    >>> func(1, 2, 3, word='spam', key=len)
>    x=1, y=2, args=(3,)
>    kwargs['key'] is something else and kwargs['word'] is 'spam'

>    If you pass an unexpected keyword argument, TypeError is raised:

>    >>> #doctest:+IGNORE_EXCEPTION_DETAIL
>    ... func(1, 2, 3, 4, keyword='something')
>    Traceback (most recent call last):
>      ...
>    TypeError: ...

>    """
>    def decorator(func):
>        """Decorate func to allow keyword-only arguments."""
>        @wraps(func)
>        def f(*args, **kwargs):
>            for key in kwargs:
>                if key not in defaults:
>                    raise TypeError(
>                    "'%s' is an invalid keyword argument for " \
>                    "this function" % key
>                    )
>            d = defaults.copy()
>            d.update(kwargs)
>            return func(*args, **d)
>        return f
>    return decorator


Thanks for this.  It's very useful.  A lot of stuff for me to chew
on.

kynn


From MatzeGuentert at gmx.de  Tue Aug  4 12:27:40 2009
From: MatzeGuentert at gmx.de (Matthias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=FCntert?=)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 18:27:40 +0200
Subject: M2Crypto: X509.X509_Extension_Stack() throws AssertionError
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <1249403260.3396.6.camel@celsius>


> >     cert_extension_2 = X509.new_extension("keyUsage", "101000000") 
> 
> Maybe your OpenSSL is too old. keyUsage needs to be defined in OpenSSL
> obj_dat.h file for this to work.

I am using OpenSSL version 0.9.8k-fips which is the latest version. 

I replaced: 
cert_extension_2 = X509.new_extension("keyUsage", "101000000") 
with: 
cert_extension_2 = X509.new_extension("keyUsage", "keyCertSign,
cRLSign")

which worked for me. 

Also I found an easy way to iterate through the extension stack using:

cert = X509.X509()
for e in cert_extension_stack:
	cert.add_ext(e)

> >     cert_extension_3 = X509.new_extension("subjectAlternativeName",
> > "DNS:www.mydomain.tld")

> And I believe you mispelled this, try subjectAltName.

Changing "subjectAlternativeName" to "subjectAltName" did the trick. 

Thank you!



From MatzeGuentert at gmx.de  Tue Aug  4 12:51:39 2009
From: MatzeGuentert at gmx.de (Matthias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=FCntert?=)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 18:51:39 +0200
Subject: M2Crypto: How to generate subjectKeyIdentifier /
	authorityKeyIdentifier
Message-ID: <1249404699.3396.30.camel@celsius>

Hello 

I am trying to add the extensions "subjectKeyIdentifier" and
"authorityKeyIdentifier" to a x509v3 certificate. 

Regarding rfc5280, section 4.2.1.2 the key identifier is composed of the
160-bit SHA-1 hash of the BIT STRING subjectPublicKey

http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5280#section-4.2.1.2

I don't know how or which function to use from EVP.PKey() to compose a
fingerprint from the public key, as you can see below I was playing
around with some functions, which simply returned nonsense (at least for
me) 

I would be happy if someone could provide some example code on how to
generate a fingerprint from the public key.

"print keyp.final()" nor "print keyp.sign_final() on the last line does
return anything... 
--------------------------------------------------------
from M2Crypto import X509, m2, RSA, EVP
from config import *

import os.path

class Keypair(object):
    def __init__(self):
        self.config = Config()
        self.keypair = EVP.PKey()
        
    def create_keypair(self, key_size=1024):
        # generate an RSA key pair
        # OpenSSL book page 232
        # second argument should be a constant RSA_F4 or RSA_3 
        rsa_key_pair = RSA.gen_key(key_size, m2.RSA_F4)

        # check if RSA key pair is usable 
        # OpenSSL book page 232
        if rsa_key_pair.check_key() != 1:
            print 'error while generating key!'
            sys.exit()
            
        # EVP object which can hold either a DSA or an RSA object
        # OpenSSL book page 236
        evp_key_container = EVP.PKey()
        evp_key_container.assign_rsa(rsa_key_pair)
        
        self.keypair = evp_key_container
        
    def save_keypair(self, filename):
        if not os.path.exists(filename):
            self.keypair.save_key(filename, None)
        else:
            print "error in save_keypair(): cannot save key, it already
exists"
                
    def load_keypair(self, filename):
        try:
            self.keypair = EVP.load_key(filename)
        except TypeError:
            print "error in load_keypair(): maybe file does not exist?" 
        
    def get_keypair(self):
        return self.keypair
        
    def get_public_key(self):
        return self.keypair.pkey
    
    def print_keypair(self):
        print self.keypair.as_pem(None)

if __name__ == "__main__":
    keypair = Keypair() 
    keypair.create_keypair()
    # keypair.save_keypair("test.keys")
    keyp = keypair.get_keypair()
    
    print keyp.final()
    print keyp.sign_final()
---------------------------------------------------------

And this maybe some OT question but how can I use OpenSSL to generate
some fingerprint for testing and comparison purpose?

For example I have got a certificate client.crt and the keys client.key

$ openssl x509 -noout -text -in client.crt 
[...]
X509v3 Subject Key Identifier: 
D2:C0:39:37:45:F6:A3:BF:D8:91:A2:F5:C7:43:42:80:6A:3C:38:AF
X509v3 Authority Key Identifier: 
A7:E2:2E:59:F8:53:1F:68:F2:59:34:32:42:F6:21:20:C0:D1:3A:89
[...]

But openssl provides me different fingerprint... so whats wrong here?

$ openssl rsa -pubout -in client_1.key | openssl sha1 -c
writing RSA key
cc:d2:ab:16:1f:a1:23:3e:fe:45:03:ab:4f:86:57:65:52:16:b2:1a



From bartsmeets86 at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 12:52:05 2009
From: bartsmeets86 at gmail.com (Bart Smeets)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 18:52:05 +0200
Subject: easy_install: unresolved external symbol
In-Reply-To: <87f2eede5ce0f1391994db66153e3c96@preisshare.net>
References: <2119ee90908031339o71e19624qa815241b446d739d@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<2119ee90908040152k5a744f98l7d5bc7da755948a2@mail.gmail.com>
	<87f2eede5ce0f1391994db66153e3c96@preisshare.net>
Message-ID: <2119ee90908040952p6233d28ek99584bcd4f5f6f42@mail.gmail.com>

How do I give the option to link to the ez_setup.py?

2009/8/4 David Lyon 

> On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 10:52:20 +0200, Bart Smeets 
> wrote:
> > I could ofcourse use cxfreeze's binary package. But bbfreeze is not
> > available as a binary. I would love to get easy_install to work. But I
> have
> > no idea what's going wrong here.
>
> What is going on is that setuptools does some very 'advanced' things.
>
> The best you can do is give the option to link to the ez_setup.py
> install script and let the users install it them themselves...
>
> David
>
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From r.a.teterin at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 13:08:45 2009
From: r.a.teterin at gmail.com (Roman)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 21:08:45 +0400
Subject: Trying to get ABC to work
In-Reply-To: <358094.5069.qm@web65302.mail.ac2.yahoo.com>
References: <358094.5069.qm@web65302.mail.ac2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090804170845.GA3092@localhost>

Following code works, although I'm not sure that it's exactly what you
want:

   import abc
   
   class MetaExample(abc.ABCMeta):
       def __new__(mcs, name, bases, ns):
           ns['cls_meth'] = mcs.cls_meth
           if not 'cls_abc' in ns:
               ns['cls_abc'] = mcs.cls_abc
           return super().__new__(mcs, name, bases, ns)
   
       def cls_meth(cls):
           print('Class method defined stub')
   
       @abc.abstractmethod
       def cls_abc(cls):
           try:
               print('Class-Abstract method defined stub')
           except NotImplementedError as err:
               print('Must implement cls_abc')
           except:
               print('General exception at cls_abc method')

That's how I've tested it:

   class Test1(object, metaclass=MetaExample):
       def cls_abc(self):
           print("method of", self)
   
   class Test2(object, metaclass=MetaExample): pass
   
   test1 = Test1()
   test1.cls_meth()
   test1.cls_abc()
   
   test2 = Test2()

Output:
   Class method defined stub
   method of <__main__.Test1 object at 0xb7b5f52c>
   Traceback (most recent call last):
     File "/tmp/test.py", line 32, in 
       test2 = Test2()
   TypeError: Can't instantiate abstract class Test2 with abstract methods cls_abc

According to the documentation, @abstractmethod "requires that the
metaclass is ABCMeta or derived from it", so I've changed base class
from type to ABCMeta. Also I don't think that using try/except inside the
abstract method will work, maybe it would be better to check presence of
all required methods directly inside the metaclass, without
@abstractmethod decorator.


From holger at merlinux.eu  Tue Aug  4 13:19:16 2009
From: holger at merlinux.eu (holger krekel)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 19:19:16 +0200
Subject: pylib/py.test 1.0.0 released 
Message-ID: <20090804171915.GS31589@trillke.net>

Hello everyone, 

i am happy to announce pylib/py.test 1.0.0, a MIT-licensed
library geared towards advanced testing and elastic distributed
programming with Python.  It features the mature cross-project 
py.test automated testing tool with many new features, aiming to: 

* allow writing zero-boilerplate automated tests in Python 
* offer strong debugging and reporting of test failures
* rapidly run and ad-hoc distribute tests to multiple CPUs/platforms 
* support unit-, functional and integration testing
* be easy to extend and tackle growing testing needs,
  (current prime example oejskit, a live-browser javascript 
  unittesting 3rd party plugin)

Please check things out at: http://pytest.org or read the blogged 
release announcement: 

   http://tetamap.wordpress.com/2009/08/04/pylib-1-0-0

or read on for some ... 

Distinctive new features shipping with py.test 1.0.0
------------------------------------------------------

For those already knowing about the older 0.9.2 release or
being experienced with other testing approaches i'll try to
give a summary of the distinctive testing features 
shipping with 1.0.0:

* test function arguments ("funcargs"):  With this, python test 
  functions can name arguments and one writes factory functions to
  provide instances for such "fixture" arguments.  This page 

        http://codespeak.net/py/dist/test/funcargs.html

  contains reference info and tutorial examples. 
  Test function arguments also allow for natural test parametrization - 
  one provides several different argument values, 
  no changes to the test function needed, no magic "yield" for
  generating tests anymore - although 1.0 still allows them and
  of course still supports traditional xUnit-style setup_module/class/function
  or (new) direct runs of unittest.TestCase style tests. 

* distributed testing: distributing test runs among Linux/OSX/Windows 
  hosts and across python-2.4 till python-2.6 interpreters 
  works reasonably stable now.  This means that you can easily 
  iron out test-module/function specific problems across a 
  variety of platforms, accelerating the change & test feedback cycle.  

* xfail: a new way to mark tests as "expected to fail" which
  means they run normally but are reported/counted specially. 
  This "xfail" mark is meant to mark missing / wrong implementation 
  rather than missing dependencies / wrong platforms for which one
  uses "skip".  Especially for larger test suites making 
  this distinction is very helpful. 

* IO-capturing: output of test functions is captured per-test, 
  by default including any output from sub processes. 
  This works on all platforms and also (now) interacts well 
  with the logging module without importing/using it itself so 
  there are no interferences. 

* pastebin: new command line option "--pastebin" to send your test 
  session output or individual test failures to the Pocoo pastebin 
  service and prints out URLs.  Convenient for quick IRC/messaging 
  communication. 

* plugins: it is now easy to write plugins by implementing one 
  or more of the 37 hooks which py.test calls to implement 
  the testing process. There are many examples, among them  
  the "oejskit" plugin which integrates testing of javascript 
  code in real-life browsers into a regular test run.  
  Apart from such separately distributed "cross-project" plugins 
  you can also write per-project plugins/extensions that lives
  with your testing code.  

cheers & have fun,
holger

-- 
Metaprogramming, Python, Testing: http://tetamap.wordpress.com
Python, PyPy, pytest contracting: http://merlinux.eu 


From Samnsparky at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 13:23:10 2009
From: Samnsparky at gmail.com (Sparky)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 10:23:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: WindowsError: exception: access violation writing 0x00000000
References: <73c6c4f5-a00b-4f95-a85d-0f257b2f001a@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	 
	
Message-ID: <26927cc2-2134-46b6-873a-02be9cf829f2@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 4, 9:47?am, Philip Semanchuk  wrote:
> On Aug 4, 2009, at 11:25 AM, Sparky wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 3, 3:29 pm, Sparky  wrote:
> >> Hello! I am using cTypes on Windows to interface with a dll and I ?
> >> keep
> >> getting an error when I execute this method:
>
> >> def eDigitalIn(self, channel, idNum = None, demo = 0, readD=0):
> >> ? ? ? ? """
> >> ? ? ? ? Name: U12.eAnalogIn(channel, idNum = None, demo = 0, readD=0)
> >> ? ? ? ? Args: See section 4.4 of the User's Guide
> >> ? ? ? ? Desc: This is a simplified version of Counter. Reads & resets
> >> the counter (CNT).
> >> ? ? ? ? """
>
> >> ? ? ? ? if idNum is None:
> >> ? ? ? ? ? ? idNum = self.id
>
> >> ? ? ? ? ljid = ctypes.c_long(idNum)
> >> ? ? ? ? state = ctypes.c_long(999)
>
> >> ? ? ? ? ecode = staticLib.ECount(ctypes.byref(ljid), demo, channel,
> >> readD, ctypes.byref(state))
>
> >> ? ? ? ? if ecode != 0: raise LabJackException(ecode)
> >> ? ? ? ? if ljid == -1: raise LabJackException(-1, "LabJack not
> >> found.")
>
> >> ? ? ? ? return {"idnum":ljid.value, "state":state.value}
>
> >> Here is the error message:
> >> Traceback (most recent call last):
> >> ? File "", line 1, in 
> >> ? ? device.eDigitalIn(0)
> >> ? File "C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Documents\Python
> >> \LabJackPython_new\u12.py", line 118, in eDigitalIn
> >> ? ? ecode = staticLib.ECount(ctypes.byref(ljid), demo, channel, ?
> >> readD,
> >> ctypes.byref(state))
> >> WindowsError: exception: access violation writing 0x00000000
>
> >> Here is the signature of the method (which is known to work with C++
> >> programs):
>
> >> long _stdcall EDigitalIn(long *idnum,
> >> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?long demo,
> >> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?long channel,
> >> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?long readD,
> >> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?long *state);
>
> >> staticLib is declared with staticLib = ctypes.windll.LoadLibrary
> >> ("ljackuw").
>
> >> Any ideas?
>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Sam
>
> > One more thing, I seem to be getting back incorrect values for doubles
> > passed by reference. Any suggestions? I am on a 64-bit machine but I
> > should think that should not make a difference.
>
> Hi Sam,
> ctypes is pretty straightforward, and I wouldn't expect it to break on ?
> something simple. I looked over your code (warning -- I am a ctypes ?
> novice) and it looks OK to me. If you're getting null pointer writes ?
> I'd suspect that the call signature isn't what you think it is, ?
> perhaps due to a lack of an extern "C" declaration or something like ?
> that. In short, I don't think this is a problem in your Python code or ?
> in ctypes.
>
> But since your Python code is the easiest to change, why not do a ?
> quick test of a minimal example?
>
> def eDigitalIn_test_version(self, channel, idNum = None, demo = 0, ?
> readD=0):
> ? ? ? ? ?ljid = ctypes.c_long(42)
> ? ? ? ? ?state = ctypes.c_long(999)
>
> ? ? ? ? ?ecode = staticLib.ECount(ctypes.byref(ljid), 0, 0, 0, ?
> ctypes.byref(state))
>
> ? ? ? ? ?print ecode
>
> Does that work any better?
>
> You could also try replacing the byref() calls with pointers created ?
> by ctypes.pointer(). But I suspect that all this will do is give you ?
> confidence that it isn't your Python code that's wrong.
>
> You might want to write a minimal C program that invokes ECount. That ?
> would help you to prove whether or not you have a working C (not C++!) ?
> interface for your function.
>
> HTH
> Philip

Hey Philip,

Thank you for your response. It turns out I was calling a function
that I was not intending on calling, so it was not a Python problem.

Thanks,
Sam


From jay.bird0804 at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 14:15:47 2009
From: jay.bird0804 at gmail.com (Jay Bird)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 11:15:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Overlap in python
Message-ID: 

Hi everyone,

I've been trying to figure out a simple algorithm on how to combine a
list of parts that have 1D locations that overlap into a non-
overlapping list.  For example, here would be my input:

part name   location
a                  5-9
b                  7-10
c                  3-6
d                  15-20
e                  18-23

And here is what I need for an output:
part name   location
c.a.b            3-10
d.e               15-23

I've tried various methods, which all fail.  Does anyone have an idea
how to do this?

Thank you very much!
Jay


From marcusw at cox.net  Tue Aug  4 14:31:49 2009
From: marcusw at cox.net (Marcus Wanner)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 11:31:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Overlap in python
References: 
Message-ID: <3f11f316-5e9e-4786-8757-edf9ab234bb7@j32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 4, 2:15?pm, Jay Bird  wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I've been trying to figure out a simple algorithm on how to combine a
> list of parts that have 1D locations that overlap into a non-
> overlapping list. ?For example, here would be my input:
>
> part name ? location
> a ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?5-9
> b ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?7-10
> c ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?3-6
> d ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?15-20
> e ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?18-23
>
> And here is what I need for an output:
> part name ? location
> c.a.b ? ? ? ? ? ?3-10
> d.e ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 15-23
>
> I've tried various methods, which all fail. ?Does anyone have an idea
> how to do this?
>
> Thank you very much!
> Jay

Just take all the values, put them in a list, and use min() and max().
For example:

import string

def makelist(values):
    values = string.replace(values, ' ', '')
    listofvaluepairs = string.split(values, ',')
    listofvalues = []
    for pair in listofvaluepairs:
        twovalues = string.split(pair, '-')
        listofvalues.append(int(twovalues[0]))
        listofvalues.append(int(twovalues[1]))
    return listofvalues

values = '5-9, 7-10, 3-6'
values = makelist(values)
print('Values: %d-%d' %(min(values), max(values)) )

Marcus


From anna.konstorum at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 14:46:14 2009
From: anna.konstorum at gmail.com (Ann)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 11:46:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Overlap in python
References: 
	<3f11f316-5e9e-4786-8757-edf9ab234bb7@j32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 4, 11:31?am, Marcus Wanner  wrote:
> On Aug 4, 2:15?pm, Jay Bird  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi everyone,
>
> > I've been trying to figure out a simple algorithm on how to combine a
> > list of parts that have 1D locations that overlap into a non-
> > overlapping list. ?For example, here would be my input:
>
> > part name ? location
> > a ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?5-9
> > b ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?7-10
> > c ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?3-6
> > d ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?15-20
> > e ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?18-23
>
> > And here is what I need for an output:
> > part name ? location
> > c.a.b ? ? ? ? ? ?3-10
> > d.e ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 15-23
>
> > I've tried various methods, which all fail. ?Does anyone have an idea
> > how to do this?
>
> > Thank you very much!
> > Jay
>
> Just take all the values, put them in a list, and use min() and max().
> For example:
>
> import string
>
> def makelist(values):
> ? ? values = string.replace(values, ' ', '')
> ? ? listofvaluepairs = string.split(values, ',')
> ? ? listofvalues = []
> ? ? for pair in listofvaluepairs:
> ? ? ? ? twovalues = string.split(pair, '-')
> ? ? ? ? listofvalues.append(int(twovalues[0]))
> ? ? ? ? listofvalues.append(int(twovalues[1]))
> ? ? return listofvalues
>
> values = '5-9, 7-10, 3-6'
> values = makelist(values)
> print('Values: %d-%d' %(min(values), max(values)) )
>
> Marcus

Thank you for your help, this is a very nice program but it does not
address the issue that I have values that do not overlap, for example
'c' and 'd' do not overlap in the above example and thus I would not
want to output 3-20 but the individual positions instead.  In
addition, my inputs are not ordered from smallest to largest, thus I
could have a situation where a=5-9, b=15-20, c=7-10, etc., and I would
still want an output of: a.c = 5-10, b=15-20.  I apologize for the
complication.

Thank you again!

Jay


From aurele.tux at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 14:53:56 2009
From: aurele.tux at gmail.com (aurelien)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 20:53:56 +0200
Subject: Is it possible to have the python color in the terminal ?
Message-ID: <1249412036.5765.20.camel@r2d2>

Hello,

I am under gNewSense, i am a newbbie on Python, i look for how change
the color terminal when python run.
at the step >>> all is in black and white.
Is it possible to have the python color in the terminal ?

Thanks for your help.

aurelien



From marcusw at cox.net  Tue Aug  4 14:55:22 2009
From: marcusw at cox.net (Marcus Wanner)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 14:55:22 -0400
Subject: Overlap in python
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<3f11f316-5e9e-4786-8757-edf9ab234bb7@j32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On 8/4/2009 2:46 PM, Ann wrote:
> On Aug 4, 11:31 am, Marcus Wanner  wrote:
>> On Aug 4, 2:15 pm, Jay Bird  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Hi everyone,
>>> I've been trying to figure out a simple algorithm on how to combine a
>>> list of parts that have 1D locations that overlap into a non-
>>> overlapping list.  For example, here would be my input:
>>> part name   location
>>> a                  5-9
>>> b                  7-10
>>> c                  3-6
>>> d                  15-20
>>> e                  18-23
>>> And here is what I need for an output:
>>> part name   location
>>> c.a.b            3-10
>>> d.e               15-23
>>> I've tried various methods, which all fail.  Does anyone have an idea
>>> how to do this?
>>> Thank you very much!
>>> Jay
>> Just take all the values, put them in a list, and use min() and max().
>> For example:
>>
>> import string
>>
>> def makelist(values):
>>     values = string.replace(values, ' ', '')
>>     listofvaluepairs = string.split(values, ',')
>>     listofvalues = []
>>     for pair in listofvaluepairs:
>>         twovalues = string.split(pair, '-')
>>         listofvalues.append(int(twovalues[0]))
>>         listofvalues.append(int(twovalues[1]))
>>     return listofvalues
>>
>> values = '5-9, 7-10, 3-6'
>> values = makelist(values)
>> print('Values: %d-%d' %(min(values), max(values)) )
>>
>> Marcus
> 
> Thank you for your help, this is a very nice program but it does not
> address the issue that I have values that do not overlap, for example
> 'c' and 'd' do not overlap in the above example and thus I would not
> want to output 3-20 but the individual positions instead.  In
> addition, my inputs are not ordered from smallest to largest, thus I
> could have a situation where a=5-9, b=15-20, c=7-10, etc., and I would
> still want an output of: a.c = 5-10, b=15-20.  I apologize for the
> complication.
> 
> Thank you again!
> 
> Jay
That would be a bit more complicated...you might try using tuples of 
values in a list, or writing your own class for the data handling. 
Unfortunately that's not something I can just sit down and code in 5 
minutes, it would take some careful thought and planning.

Marcus



From marcusw at cox.net  Tue Aug  4 15:00:32 2009
From: marcusw at cox.net (Marcus Wanner)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 15:00:32 -0400
Subject: Is it possible to have the python color in the terminal ?
In-Reply-To: <1249412036.5765.20.camel@r2d2>
References: <1249412036.5765.20.camel@r2d2>
Message-ID: 

On 8/4/2009 2:53 PM, aurelien wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I am under gNewSense, i am a newbbie on Python, i look for how change
> the color terminal when python run.
> at the step >>> all is in black and white.
> Is it possible to have the python color in the terminal ?
> 
> Thanks for your help.
> 
> aurelien
> 
You might try posting to this thread: 
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/58df7b77394e4666/f4c13766a1e09380
I don't know much about the question myself, though.

Marcus



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Aug  4 15:10:52 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 20:10:52 +0100
Subject: Overlap in python
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Jay Bird wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I've been trying to figure out a simple algorithm on how to combine a
> list of parts that have 1D locations that overlap into a non-
> overlapping list.  For example, here would be my input:
> 
> part name   location
> a                  5-9
> b                  7-10
> c                  3-6
> d                  15-20
> e                  18-23
> 
> And here is what I need for an output:
> part name   location
> c.a.b            3-10
> d.e               15-23
> 
> I've tried various methods, which all fail.  Does anyone have an idea
> how to do this?
> 
> Thank you very much!
> Jay
I haven't tried  but could you adapt this:-

data = [ 1,  4,5,6, 10, 15,16,17,18, 22, 25,26,27,28]
for k, g in groupby(enumerate(data), lambda (i,x):i-x):
     print map(itemgetter(1), g)

found here 
http://www.python.org/doc/2.6.2/library/itertools.html#module-itertools
-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From kosta.koeman at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 15:13:10 2009
From: kosta.koeman at gmail.com (Kosta)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 12:13:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Using Python to automate builds
Message-ID: <84d9ae10-3aee-40a8-97ac-05799da0de64@f18g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

I am a Python newbie, tasked with automating (researching) building
Windows drivers using the WDK build environment.  I've been looking
into Python for this (instead of writing a bunch of batch files).

What I would like to do, is to open a cmd window, and start a Python
script.  This script would then (based upon input arguments), build
different flavors of the driver (fre, chk, x86, x64) and do some post
processing (create cat files, sign, etc.).

I was hoping to take advantage as much as possible of exisiting
infrastructure from the WDK.  I am able to call setenv.bat and provide
all the input parameters.  One of the things setenv.bat does is change
the path environment variable.  However, this is not captured by
Python.  I could duplicate the functionality, but I'd rather not.  Is
there a way to capture all enviroment variable changes being made by a
batch file from Python?

Thanks!


From aurele.tux at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 15:20:03 2009
From: aurele.tux at gmail.com (aurelien)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 12:20:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is it possible to have the python color in the terminal ?
Message-ID: 

Hello,

I am under gNewSense, i am a newbbie on Python, i look for how change
the color terminal when python run.
at the step >>> all is in black and white.
Is it possible to have the python color in the terminal ?

Thanks for your help

aurelien


From aurele.tux at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 15:23:24 2009
From: aurele.tux at gmail.com (aurelien)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 21:23:24 +0200
Subject: Is it possible to have the python color in the terminal ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <1249412036.5765.20.camel@r2d2>  
Message-ID: <1249413804.5765.24.camel@r2d2>

 
> You might try posting to this thread: 
> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/58df7b77394e4666/f4c13766a1e09380
> I don't know much about the question myself, though.
> 
> Marcus


Thanks for your help !

aurelien



From no.email at please.post  Tue Aug  4 15:29:00 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 19:29:00 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: no-clobber dicts?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

In  Steven D'Aprano  writes:

>On Mon, 03 Aug 2009 21:07:32 +0000, kj wrote:

>> I use the term "no-clobber dict" to refer to a dictionary D with the
>> especial property that if K is in D, then
>> 
>>   D[K] = V
>> 
>> will raise an exception unless V == D[K].  In other words, D[K] can be
>> set if K doesn't exist already among D's keys, or if the assigned value
>> is equal to the current value of D[K].  All other assignments to D[K]
>> trigger an exception.


>Coincidentally, I just built something very close to what you ask. Here 
>it is:

>class ConstantNamespace(dict):
>    """Dictionary with write-once keys."""
>    def __delitem__(self, key):
>        raise TypeError("can't unbind constants")
>    def __setitem__(self, key, value):
>        if key in self:
>            raise TypeError("can't rebind constants")
>        super(ConstantNamespace, self).__setitem__(key, value)
>    def clear(self):
>        raise TypeError('cannot unbind constants')
>    def pop(self, key, *args):
>        raise TypeError("cannot pop constants")
>    def popitem(self):
>        raise TypeError("cannot pop constants")
>    def update(self, other):
>        for key in other:
>            if key in self:
>                raise TypeError('cannot update constants')
>        # If we get here, then we're not modifying anything, 
>        # so okay to proceed.
>        super(ConstantNamespace, self).update(other)
>    def copy(self):
>        c = self.__class__(**self)
>        return c


Thanks.  As you note this not quite what I'm looking for, but it's
a good template for it.

kynn


From no.email at please.post  Tue Aug  4 15:30:51 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 19:30:51 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: no-clobber dicts?
References: 
	<28309a6c-f6f2-4f11-852f-6e3f570253e7@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

In  Chris Rebert  writes:

>On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 2:47 PM, r wrote:
>> On Aug 3, 4:07=C2=A0pm, kj  wrote:
>>> I use the term "no-clobber dict" to refer to a dictionary D with
>>> the especial property that if K is in D, then
>>>
>>> =C2=A0 D[K] =3D V
>>>
>>> will raise an exception unless V =3D=3D D[K]. =C2=A0In other words, D[K]
>>> can be set if K doesn't exist already among D's keys, or if the
>>> assigned value is equal to the current value of D[K]. =C2=A0All other
>>> assignments to D[K] trigger an exception.
>>>
>>> The idea here is to detect inconsistencies in the data.
>>>
>>> This is a data structure I often need. =C2=A0Before I re-invent the
>>> wheel, I thought I'd ask: is it already available?
>>>
>>> TIA!
>>>
>>> kynn
>>
>> Not sure if something like this already exists, but it would be
>> trivial to implement by overriding dict.__setitem__()

>That is, if you don't care about .update() not preserving the
>invariant.

The implication here is that .update() does not in turn use
.__setitem__(), which I find a bit surprising.

kynn


From r.a.teterin at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 15:54:10 2009
From: r.a.teterin at gmail.com (Roman)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 23:54:10 +0400
Subject: Is it possible to have the python color in the terminal ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <20090804195410.GA3247@localhost>

On 04/08/09 12:20, aurelien wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I am under gNewSense, i am a newbbie on Python, i look for how change
> the color terminal when python run.
> at the step >>> all is in black and white.
> Is it possible to have the python color in the terminal ?
> 
> Thanks for your help
> 
> aurelien
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 

If you want to get colourful output, you can use 
IPython (http://ipython.scipy.org/moin/FrontPage), it is an enhanced
Python shell. You may also change colour of text by printing appropriate
escape sequences (e.g. executing print("\033[0;32m") in Python
interpreter should change foreground colour to green.


From gregor.lingl at aon.at  Tue Aug  4 15:57:40 2009
From: gregor.lingl at aon.at (Gregor Lingl)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 21:57:40 +0200
Subject: Overlap in python
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4a7892c2$0$2297$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>

Jay Bird schrieb:
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I've been trying to figure out a simple algorithm on how to combine a
> list of parts that have 1D locations that overlap into a non-
> overlapping list.  For example, here would be my input:
> 
> part name   location
> a                  5-9
> b                  7-10
> c                  3-6
> d                  15-20
> e                  18-23
> 
> And here is what I need for an output:
> part name   location
> c.a.b            3-10
> d.e               15-23
> 

Suppose you have your data given as a dictionary:

data = {'a':(5,9),
         'b':(7,10),
         'c':(3,6),
         'd':(15,20),
         'e':(18,23)}

Then the following not particularly elegant
but very simple and straight forward
algorithm will solve your problem:

def values(key):
     return set(range(data[key][0], data[key][1]+1))

keys = list(data.keys())
result = []
while keys:
     k = [keys[0]]
     keys = keys[1:]
     v = values(k[0])
     for l in keys[:]:
         if v.intersection(values(l)):
             v.update(values(l))
             k.append(l)
             keys.remove(l)
     result.append((k,v))

# print(result) ## if you like

for k, v in result:
     print(".".join(sorted(k)), "%d-%d" % (min(v), max(v)))

Regards,
Gregor


> I've tried various methods, which all fail.  Does anyone have an idea
> how to do this?
> 
> Thank you very much!
> Jay


From info at egenix.com  Tue Aug  4 15:58:40 2009
From: info at egenix.com (eGenix Team: M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 21:58:40 +0200
Subject: ANN: eGenix pyOpenSSL Distribution 0.9.0-0.9.8k now also in .egg
	format
Message-ID: <4A7892F0.3080805@egenix.com>

________________________________________________________________________

ANNOUNCING

                   eGenix.com pyOpenSSL Distribution

                          Version 0.9.0-0.9.8k


             An easy to install and use repackaged distribution
               of the pyOpenSSL Python interface for OpenSSL -
              available on Windows, Mac OS X and Unix platforms


This announcement is also available on our web-site for online reading:
http://www.egenix.com/company/news/eGenix-pyOpenSSL-Distribution-0.9.0-0.9.8k-1-Update.html

________________________________________________________________________

INTRODUCTION

The eGenix.com pyOpenSSL Distribution includes everything you need to
get started with SSL in Python. It comes with an easy to use installer
that includes the most recent OpenSSL library versions in pre-compiled
form.

pyOpenSSL is an open-source Python add-on (http://pyopenssl.sf.net/)
that allows writing SSL aware networking applications as well as
certificate management tools.

OpenSSL is an open-source implementation of the SSL protocol
(http://www.openssl.org/).

For more information, please see the product page:

    http://www.egenix.com/products/python/pyOpenSSL/

________________________________________________________________________

NEWS

Due to popular demand, we've added .egg file versions for Windows
and Linux to the available download options. This should make things
easier for people using e.g. zc.buildout and other egg-file based
installers.

As always, binaries include both pyOpenSSL and the necessary OpenSSL
libraries.

________________________________________________________________________

DOWNLOADS

The download archives and instructions for installing the package can
be found at:

    http://www.egenix.com/products/python/pyOpenSSL/

________________________________________________________________________

UPGRADING

Before installing this version of pyOpenSSL, please make sure that
you uninstall any previously installed pyOpenSSL version. Otherwise,
you could end up not using the included OpenSSL libs.

_______________________________________________________________________

SUPPORT

Commercial support for these packages is available from eGenix.com.
Please see

    http://www.egenix.com/services/support/

for details about our support offerings.

Enjoy,
-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Aug 04 2009)
>>> Python/Zope Consulting and Support ...        http://www.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ...             http://zope.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...        http://python.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________

::: Try our new mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! ::::


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    D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
           Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
               http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/


From no.email at please.post  Tue Aug  4 16:01:12 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 20:01:12 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: no-clobber dicts?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

In  Steven D'Aprano  writes:

>class ConstantNamespace(dict):


>I also have a series of unit tests for it if you're interested in them.

Actually, come to think of it, I think I'll take you up on this.
I'd love to see those tests.  Unit testing in Python is in area I
need to work on.

TIA!

kynn


From dickinsm at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 16:03:00 2009
From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 13:03:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Overlap in python
References: 
Message-ID: <78d86d92-d373-4163-a418-600a3eb36ab3@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 4, 7:15?pm, Jay Bird  wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I've been trying to figure out a simple algorithm on how to combine a
> list of parts that have 1D locations that overlap into a non-
> overlapping list. ?For example, here would be my input:
>
> part name ? location
> a ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?5-9
> b ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?7-10
> c ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?3-6
> d ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?15-20
> e ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?18-23
>
> And here is what I need for an output:
> part name ? location
> c.a.b ? ? ? ? ? ?3-10
> d.e ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 15-23
>
> I've tried various methods, which all fail. ?Does anyone have an idea
> how to do this?

Here's an approach that might work.  Turning it into a sensible
function and parsing input/massaging output properly are left
as an exercise.  Blocks that just touch (e.g. (3, 6) then (6, 9))
are amalgamated;  if this isn't what you want, and they should
be treated as separate instead, then replace 'Stop' with 'Finish'
(or any other string that sorts before 'Start').


input = [
    ('a', (5, 9)),
    ('b', (7, 10)),
    ('c', (3, 6)),
    ('d', (15, 20)),
    ('e', (18, 23)),
    ]

# create sorted list of points where an interval is entered or left
transitions = []
for name, (start, stop) in input:
    transitions.extend([(start, 'Start', name), (stop, 'Stop', name)])
transitions.sort()

# scan list, accumulating blocks along the way.
count = 0
for i, (pt, startend, name) in enumerate(transitions):
    if startend == 'Start':
        if not count:
            start = pt
            names = []
        count += 1
        names.append(name)
    else:
        count -= 1
        if not count:
            print '.'.join(names), "%s--%s" % (start, pt)



The output that I get from this under Python 2.6 is:

c.a.b 3--10
d.e 15--23


--
Mark


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Tue Aug  4 16:03:08 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 13:03:08 -0700
Subject: no-clobber dicts?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<28309a6c-f6f2-4f11-852f-6e3f570253e7@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908041303ycf7a2f2g47b2b2eebf723d32@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 12:30 PM, kj wrote:
> In  Chris Rebert  writes:
>
>>On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 2:47 PM, r wrote:
>>> On Aug 3, 4:07=C2=A0pm, kj  wrote:
>>>> I use the term "no-clobber dict" to refer to a dictionary D with
>>>> the especial property that if K is in D, then
>>>>
>>>> =C2=A0 D[K] =3D V
>>>>
>>>> will raise an exception unless V =3D=3D D[K]. =C2=A0In other words, D[K]
>>>> can be set if K doesn't exist already among D's keys, or if the
>>>> assigned value is equal to the current value of D[K]. =C2=A0All other
>>>> assignments to D[K] trigger an exception.
>>>>
>>>> The idea here is to detect inconsistencies in the data.
>>>>
>>>> This is a data structure I often need. =C2=A0Before I re-invent the
>>>> wheel, I thought I'd ask: is it already available?
>>>>
>>>> TIA!
>>>>
>>>> kynn
>>>
>>> Not sure if something like this already exists, but it would be
>>> trivial to implement by overriding dict.__setitem__()
>
>>That is, if you don't care about .update() not preserving the
>>invariant.
>
> The implication here is that .update() does not in turn use
> .__setitem__(), which I find a bit surprising.

The builtin types are allowed to take such shortcuts for performance reasons.

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From dciphercomputing at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 16:05:10 2009
From: dciphercomputing at gmail.com (Simon)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 13:05:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Newbie Question regarding __init__()
References: 
	
	
	 
	
	<6ccf5dbe-4b71-4159-88bb-c6a14aa785a9@k26g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<01bcf8b8-687c-4bf4-acbb-b059a480d382@f33g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <20295b74-b630-47bd-b48d-9881bc6453a7@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 3, 11:00?pm, Dave Angel  wrote:
> Simon wrote:
> > On Aug 2, 5:51 am, Dave Angel  wrote:
>
> >> 
> >> I don't understand your comparison to Foxpro. ?read on.
>
> >> As your code was last posted, you don't need a return value from
> >> init_Exec() ?Every function that doesn't have an explicit return will
> >> return None. ?And None is interpreted as False in an "and" expression. ?
> >> If you had an "if" around the whole thing, then you'd care.
>
> >> DaveA
>
> > All I meant by the FoxPro comment was the idea of using the equal sign
> > without a variable to throw away the result. ?Also in FoxPro there is
> > no such thing as automatically returning None. ?If there is no
> > explicit return then True is returned.
>
> > Thanks I did not know that None is interpreted as False.
>
> > Simon
>
> To throw away the result of an expression in Python is even easier. ?
> Just don't use it.
> ? ? ? ?func1() and func2()
> is a valid expression whose result is not used. ?And func2()'s result is
> therefore irrelevant. ?But shortcircuiting means that func2() is only
> called if func1() returned False (or something equivalent to it, like 0
> or an empty list)

Thanks for telling me how Python throws away the result.  Secondly my
code works perfectly now that I am properly defining my methods using
"self".


From 1x7y2z9 at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 16:11:18 2009
From: 1x7y2z9 at gmail.com (1x7y2z9)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 13:11:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: boolean OR gotcha
Message-ID: 


>>> 0 or None is None
True
>>> None or 0 is None
False
>>> None or 0 is 0
True

Yes, this is explained in the docs:
The expression x or y first evaluates x; if x is true, its value is
returned; otherwise, y is evaluated and the resulting value is
returned.

Another one (also explainable):
>>> 0 or None == None or 0
True
# Above is same as (operator precedence):
>>> 0 or (None == None) or 0
True
# Here is something different:
>>> (0 or None) == (None or 0)
False


From python at rcn.com  Tue Aug  4 16:14:29 2009
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 13:14:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: no-clobber dicts?
References: 
	<28309a6c-f6f2-4f11-852f-6e3f570253e7@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <435e2e2c-6f83-48e0-870e-febdc37c4c5c@x6g2000prc.googlegroups.com>

[kj]
> The implication here is that .update() does not in turn use
> .__setitem__(), which I find a bit surprising.

It's never wise to make assumptions about this sort of thing.
Every method in a class or type is allowed to directly access
or modify its private, internal data.  The implementation is
free to choose whether to limit that access to a few accessors
(i.e. getitem, setitem, delitem, len) or to let all of the
methods have direct access to the underlying data structure.
Even if accessors were used, the choice would be arbitrary
(perhaps delitem() gets implemented in terms of pop() or somesuch).

This is a basic for OO programming.  Unless the class documentation
promises to use particular hooks, the implementation is free to
change in any way that doesn't violate the published API (this is
one of the benefits of encapsulation and abstract data types).

In general, if a subclass is overriding, rather than extending,
then it should override *every* method that could be affected.


Raymond




From mensanator at aol.com  Tue Aug  4 16:21:30 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 13:21:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is it possible to have the python color in the terminal ?
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 4, 1:53?pm, aurelien  wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am under gNewSense, i am a newbbie on Python, i look for how change
> the color terminal when python run.
> at the step >>> all is in black and white.
> Is it possible to have the python color in the terminal ?

Depends on whether your terminal supports ANSI codes.

For example, Windows does not, but the Cygwin terminal does.

So, from Cygwin I can do

>>> a = "\x1b[32m"
>>> a
'\x1b[32m'
>>> print a
>>>
>>>
>>> print b
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
NameError: name 'b' is not defined
>>>

And everything from the "print a" statement onwards is green.

An ANSI code: an escape character (ESC, ASCII value 27,
\x1b in hex) followed by the appropriate code sequence:

Code:    Meaning:

\x1b[0m  reset; clears all colors and styles (to white on black)
\x1b[1m  bold on (see below)
\x1b[3m  italics on
\x1b[4m  underline on
\x1b[7m  inverse on; reverses foreground & background colors
\x1b[9m  strikethrough on
\x1b[22m bold off (see below)
\x1b[23m italics off
\x1b[24m underline off
\x1b[27m inverse off
\x1b[29m strikethrough off
\x1b[30m set foreground color to black
\x1b[31m set foreground color to red
\x1b[32m set foreground color to green
\x1b[33m set foreground color to yellow
\x1b[34m set foreground color to blue
\x1b[35m set foreground color to magenta (purple)
\x1b[36m set foreground color to cyan
\x1b[37m set foreground color to white
\x1b[39m set foreground color to default (white)
\x1b[40m set background color to black
\x1b[41m set background color to red
\x1b[42m set background color to green
\x1b[43m set background color to yellow
\x1b[44m set background color to blue
\x1b[45m set background color to magenta (purple)
\x1b[46m set background color to cyan
\x1b[47m set background color to white
\x1b[49m set background color to default (black)


>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> aurelien



From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 16:24:46 2009
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 13:24:46 -0700
Subject: boolean OR gotcha
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7a9c25c20908041324l1a589c54q2f0f9666ab4ddd67@mail.gmail.com>

>
>
> # Here is something different:
> >>> (0 or None) == (None or 0)
> False


What is the actual problem? You quoted the docs, it seems very clear.

(0 or None) would return None.

(None or 0) would return 0.

None is not equal to 0, of course.

--S
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From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Tue Aug  4 16:25:09 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 22:25:09 +0200
Subject: boolean OR gotcha
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

04-08-2009 o 22:11:18 1x7y2z9 <1x7y2z9 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Another one (also explainable):
>>>> 0 or None == None or 0
> True
> # Above is same as (operator precedence):
>>>> 0 or (None == None) or 0
> True
> # Here is something different:
>>>> (0 or None) == (None or 0)
> False

I don't see any problem here.

The last is ok: None != 0.

*j
-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From kushal.kumaran+python at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 16:25:55 2009
From: kushal.kumaran+python at gmail.com (Kushal Kumaran)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 01:55:55 +0530
Subject: Online payment module
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <1e364c4e0908041325h5be577dq2363fba4c39af05b@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 12:41 AM, Sam Tregar wrote:
> Hello all.? I'm considering building a module to provide a
> cross-payment-gatewat API for making online payments.? In the Perl world we
> have a module like this called Business::OnlinePayment
> (http://search.cpan.org/~jasonk/Business-OnlinePayment-2.01/OnlinePayment.pm).
>
> Is there anything like this in Python?? My searches so far haven't turned up
> anything.? If I don't find one I'll probably build one, covering PayPal and
> Authorize.net to start.? If anyone is interested in discussing the project
> and/or getting involved shoot me an email.
>

Not really familiar with this area, but have you seen these?

http://code.google.com/p/pypaypal/
http://www.geteasyshop.com/front-page

-- 
kushal


From duane.kaufman at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 16:32:32 2009
From: duane.kaufman at gmail.com (DuaneKaufman)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 13:32:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Overlap in python
References: 
Message-ID: <2e475887-0e8d-4b34-a918-1af720c166bf@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 4, 1:15?pm, Jay Bird  wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I've been trying to figure out a simple algorithm on how to combine a
> list of parts that have 1D locations that overlap into a non-
> overlapping list. ?For example, here would be my input:
>
> part name ? location
> a ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?5-9
> b ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?7-10
> c ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?3-6
> d ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?15-20
> e ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?18-23
>
> And here is what I need for an output:
> part name ? location
> c.a.b ? ? ? ? ? ?3-10
> d.e ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 15-23
>
> I've tried various methods, which all fail. ?Does anyone have an idea
> how to do this?
>
> Thank you very much!
> Jay

Hi,

You have gotten some excellent feedback (all without installing
anything extra to your Python install), but might I suggest the use of
an interval arithmetic package to aid in this?

For instance the interval module found at: http://members.cox.net/apoco/interval/
can be put to use:

Given your data above:
> part name   location
> a                  5-9
> b                  7-10
> c                  3-6

from interval import Interval
>>> a_int=Interval(5,9)
>>> b_int=Interval(7,10)
>>> c_int=Interval(3,6)
>>> a_int.overlaps(b_int)
True
>>> a_int.overlaps(c_int)
True
>>> b_int.overlaps(c_int)
False

Duane


From 1x7y2z9 at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 16:35:02 2009
From: 1x7y2z9 at gmail.com (1x7y2z9)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 13:35:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: boolean OR gotcha
References: 
	
Message-ID: 


Did not intend that there was a problem.
Just a gotcha or a fun little titbit ... maybe.  :)


On Aug 4, 1:25?pm, "Jan Kaliszewski"  wrote:
> 04-08-2009 o 22:11:18 1x7y2z9 <1x7y... at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Another one (also explainable):
> >>>> 0 or None == None or 0
> > True
> > # Above is same as (operator precedence):
> >>>> 0 or (None == None) or 0
> > True
> > # Here is something different:
> >>>> (0 or None) == (None or 0)
> > False
>
> I don't see any problem here.
>
> The last is ok: None != 0.
>
> *j
> --
> Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 



From maxkhesin at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 16:45:10 2009
From: maxkhesin at gmail.com (xamdam)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 13:45:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: SDMX format
Message-ID: 

Does anyone know of python libs for writing SDMX XML format?
http://www.SDMX.org/resources/SDMXML/schemas/v2_0/common
thanks,
max.


From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Tue Aug  4 16:54:16 2009
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (Bearophile)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 13:54:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Overlap in python
References: 
Message-ID: 

Jay Bird:
> I've been trying to figure out a simple algorithm on how to combine a
> list of parts that have 1D locations that overlap into a non-
> overlapping list.  For example, here would be my input:
>
> part name   location
> a                  5-9
> b                  7-10
> c                  3-6
> d                  15-20
> e                  18-23
>
> And here is what I need for an output:
> part name   location
> c.a.b            3-10
> d.e               15-23

That's sometimes known as "The Set Union Problem on Intervals".
Knowing the name of a problem is sometimes half the work :-) People
have written papers on this.

This is a O(N^2) force-brute algorithm, you can try it on your data:

data = """part name   location
a                  5-9
b                  7-10
c                  3-6
d                  15-20
e                  18-23"""

pairs = map(str.split, data.splitlines()[1:])
triples = [map(int, i.split("-")) + [name] for (name, i) in pairs]

overlap = lambda x1,y1, x2,y2: y1 >= x2 and x1 <= y2

results = []
for (x1,y1,name) in triples:
    for i, res in enumerate(results):
        if overlap(x1,y1, res[0],res[1]):
            results[i].append(name)
            results[i][0] = min(x1, res[0])
            results[i][1] = max(y1, res[1])
            break
    else:
        results.append([x1, y1, name])

print results
# Output: [[3, 10, 'a', 'b', 'c'], [15, 23, 'd', 'e']]

If you have have a lot of data then it will be too much slow, and you
have to use a more complex algorithm.

If your intervals are many, they are small, and they are spread in a
not too much large range of possible values, you can create an integer
array of indexes, and you can "paint" intervals on it.

Bye,
bearophile


From gregor.lingl at aon.at  Tue Aug  4 16:54:16 2009
From: gregor.lingl at aon.at (Gregor Lingl)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 22:54:16 +0200
Subject: Overlap in python
In-Reply-To: <2e475887-0e8d-4b34-a918-1af720c166bf@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<2e475887-0e8d-4b34-a918-1af720c166bf@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a78a005$0$2301$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>

DuaneKaufman schrieb:
> On Aug 4, 1:15 pm, Jay Bird  wrote:
...
> For instance the interval module found at: http://members.cox.net/apoco/interval/
> can be put to use:
> 
> Given your data above:
>> part name   location
>> a                  5-9
>> b                  7-10
>> c                  3-6
> 
> from interval import Interval
>>>> a_int=Interval(5,9)
>>>> b_int=Interval(7,10)
>>>> c_int=Interval(3,6)
>>>> a_int.overlaps(b_int)
> True
>>>> a_int.overlaps(c_int)
> True
>>>> b_int.overlaps(c_int)
> False

As my proposed solution shows this approach can
be done with on board means of Python (namely
the set type). This would be quite different though,
if you had floating point boundaries of the intervals.

Regards,
Gregor

> 
> Duane


From gregor.lingl at aon.at  Tue Aug  4 16:57:59 2009
From: gregor.lingl at aon.at (Gregor Lingl)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 22:57:59 +0200
Subject: Overlap in python
In-Reply-To: <4a78a005$0$2301$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>
References: 
	<2e475887-0e8d-4b34-a918-1af720c166bf@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<4a78a005$0$2301$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>
Message-ID: <4a78a0e5$0$2301$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>

Gregor Lingl schrieb:
> 
> As my proposed solution shows this approach can
> be done with on board means of Python (namely
> the set type). This would be quite different though,
> if you had floating point boundaries of the intervals.
> 
... or if the intgers involved were very big  :-(

> Regards,
> Gregor
> 
>>
>> Duane


From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Tue Aug  4 17:00:37 2009
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (Bearophile)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 14:00:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Overlap in python
References: 
	<78d86d92-d373-4163-a418-600a3eb36ab3@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1f284d33-256e-4a61-a59a-3c84a2cf00e6@18g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

Mark Dickinson:
> # create sorted list of points where an interval is entered or left
> transitions = []
> for name, (start, stop) in input:
> ? ? transitions.extend([(start, 'Start', name), (stop, 'Stop', name)])
> transitions.sort()
>
> # scan list, accumulating blocks along the way.

Oh, right, that's the usual simple solution. Silly me for showing the
dumb quadratic solution :-)

The "pixelmap" approach may be faster if you have tons of small
intervals in a not too much large range.

Bye,
bearophile


From dickinsm at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 17:22:01 2009
From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 14:22:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Overlap in python
References: 
	<78d86d92-d373-4163-a418-600a3eb36ab3@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0bf0707a-d053-4481-af26-b2a524ab0964@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 4, 9:03?pm, Mark Dickinson  wrote:

> for i, (pt, startend, name) in enumerate(transitions):

Whoops.  That line should just be:

for pt, startend, name in transitions:

The enumerate was accidentally left-over from a more
complicated version.

--
Mark



From davea at ieee.org  Tue Aug  4 17:34:23 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 17:34:23 -0400
Subject: Using Python to automate builds
In-Reply-To: <84d9ae10-3aee-40a8-97ac-05799da0de64@f18g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
References: <84d9ae10-3aee-40a8-97ac-05799da0de64@f18g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A78A95F.9080209@ieee.org>

Kosta wrote:
> I am a Python newbie, tasked with automating (researching) building
> Windows drivers using the WDK build environment.  I've been looking
> into Python for this (instead of writing a bunch of batch files).
>
> What I would like to do, is to open a cmd window, and start a Python
> script.  This script would then (based upon input arguments), build
> different flavors of the driver (fre, chk, x86, x64) and do some post
> processing (create cat files, sign, etc.).
>
> I was hoping to take advantage as much as possible of exisiting
> infrastructure from the WDK.  I am able to call setenv.bat and provide
> all the input parameters.  One of the things setenv.bat does is change
> the path environment variable.  However, this is not captured by
> Python.  I could duplicate the functionality, but I'd rather not.  Is
> there a way to capture all enviroment variable changes being made by a
> batch file from Python?
>
> Thanks!
>
>   
An excellent question.  It's been a few years, but last time I remember 
looking, setenv.bat only changed environment variables, and didn't 
change current directory, or run any external programs..  If that's 
still true, I figure you have three options.

I don't know of any way to capture them explicitly.  So here are the 
three choices I can come up with:

1) have the first python program invoke a new shell which runs setenv, 
then runs another python program.  This second python program would be 
where all the work is done, invoking compilers, linkers etc.  So the 
first python program invokes a batch file which looks something like:
          call setenv.bat  arg1
          python second.py    arg2 arg3  arg4  arg5

 This batch file could even be generated on the fly, just to simplify 
complex argument passing.

2) Have the python program invoke a batch file something like the 
following, and then analyze the resulting text file
           call setenv.bat   arg1
           set > tempfile.txt

The contents of that tempfile could then be loaded into a dict similar 
to the usual environment.  Now the Python script can continue, and just 
use these environment variable instead of the original set

3) Have the python program parse the setenv.bat instead of running it.

There was a post on this newsgroup announcing pyKook.  It's still in 
early form, but you might get ideas from it.  I haven't looked, I just 
pasted the announcement to look at later.

+ I have released pyKook 0.0.2.
+ http://pypi.python.org/pypi/Kook/0.0.2
+ http://www.kuwata-lab.com/kook/
+ http://www.kuwata-lab.com/kook/pykook-users-guide.html

Other possibilities:
+   http://pypi.python.org/pypi/vellum/       flexible small 'make' 
alternative

+  http://code.google.com/p/waf/

+  http://code.google.com/p/fabricate/

DaveA



From gdamjan at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 17:40:17 2009
From: gdamjan at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JTQsNC80ZjQsNC9INCT0LXQvtGA0LPQuNC10LLRgdC60Lg=?=)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 23:40:17 +0200
Subject: Problem in installing PyGreSQL
References: <7aa29e790908032045p3b52a633m8d0e366a0f648b@mail.gmail.com>
	<7f0b4d2b1d5bd3f3057ead3b029059b9@preisshare.net>
	<20090804084856.b825967a.darcy@druid.net>
	
	<20090804095547.a5274e22.darcy@druid.net>
	
	
Message-ID: <1fmmk6-htc.ln1@archaeopteryx.softver.org.mk>

>> > By the way, you don't have to be super user to install PyGreSQL. 
>> > You just need SU if you want to install it system wide.  PyGreSQL
>> > doesn't require any special privileges to run.
>> 
>> Right, but the packages install system-wide. That's why he could
>> compile it himself but not use the package.
> 
> Exactly so don't install the package.  Do "python setup.py build" and
> put the three files that are built (_pg.so, pg.py and pgdb.py) into
> any directory and point PYTHONPATH to it.

Or.. with Python 2.6 and up, you can do:
   python setup.py install --user
and it will install the package in users own 
~/.local/lib/python2.6/site-packages/

BTW that path is configurable with the PYTHONUSERBASE environment 
variable.

see: http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0370/

-- 
?????? ( http://softver.org.mk/damjan/ )

Spammers scratch here with a diamond to find my address:
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||


From kosta.koeman at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 17:40:46 2009
From: kosta.koeman at gmail.com (Kosta)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 14:40:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Using Python to automate builds
References: <84d9ae10-3aee-40a8-97ac-05799da0de64@f18g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <48e9dcba-5309-4de6-b833-7abec18120e1@d9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 4, 2:34?pm, Dave Angel  wrote:
> Kosta wrote:
> > I am a Python newbie, tasked with automating (researching) building
> > Windows drivers using the WDK build environment. ?I've been looking
> > into Python for this (instead of writing a bunch of batch files).
>
> > What I would like to do, is to open a cmd window, and start a Python
> > script. ?This script would then (based upon input arguments), build
> > different flavors of the driver (fre, chk, x86, x64) and do some post
> > processing (create cat files, sign, etc.).
>
> > I was hoping to take advantage as much as possible of exisiting
> > infrastructure from the WDK. ?I am able to call setenv.bat and provide
> > all the input parameters. ?One of the things setenv.bat does is change
> > the path environment variable. ?However, this is not captured by
> > Python. ?I could duplicate the functionality, but I'd rather not. ?Is
> > there a way to capture all enviroment variable changes being made by a
> > batch file from Python?
>
> > Thanks!
>
> An excellent question. ?It's been a few years, but last time I remember
> looking, setenv.bat only changed environment variables, and didn't
> change current directory, or run any external programs.. ?If that's
> still true, I figure you have three options.
>
> I don't know of any way to capture them explicitly. ?So here are the
> three choices I can come up with:
>
> 1) have the first python program invoke a new shell which runs setenv,
> then runs another python program. ?This second python program would be
> where all the work is done, invoking compilers, linkers etc. ?So the
> first python program invokes a batch file which looks something like:
> ? ? ? ? ? call setenv.bat ?arg1
> ? ? ? ? ? python second.py ? ?arg2 arg3 ?arg4 ?arg5
>
> ?This batch file could even be generated on the fly, just to simplify
> complex argument passing.
>
> 2) Have the python program invoke a batch file something like the
> following, and then analyze the resulting text file
> ? ? ? ? ? ?call setenv.bat ? arg1
> ? ? ? ? ? ?set > tempfile.txt
>
> The contents of that tempfile could then be loaded into a dict similar
> to the usual environment. ?Now the Python script can continue, and just
> use these environment variable instead of the original set
>
> 3) Have the python program parse the setenv.bat instead of running it.
>
> There was a post on this newsgroup announcing pyKook. ?It's still in
> early form, but you might get ideas from it. ?I haven't looked, I just
> pasted the announcement to look at later.
>
> + I have released pyKook 0.0.2.
> +http://pypi.python.org/pypi/Kook/0.0.2
> +http://www.kuwata-lab.com/kook/
> +http://www.kuwata-lab.com/kook/pykook-users-guide.html
>
> Other possibilities:
> + ?http://pypi.python.org/pypi/vellum/? ? ? flexible small 'make'
> alternative
>
> + ?http://code.google.com/p/waf/
>
> + ?http://code.google.com/p/fabricate/
>
> DaveA- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thanks Dave.  I had thought about those three options, and was
honestly hoping for a foruth (I know, some people are never
satisfied ;).  I'll look into pyKook.  Thank you for your help.


From philip at semanchuk.com  Tue Aug  4 17:52:48 2009
From: philip at semanchuk.com (Philip Semanchuk)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 17:52:48 -0400
Subject: Using Python to automate builds
In-Reply-To: <48e9dcba-5309-4de6-b833-7abec18120e1@d9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <84d9ae10-3aee-40a8-97ac-05799da0de64@f18g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	
	<48e9dcba-5309-4de6-b833-7abec18120e1@d9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 


On Aug 4, 2009, at 5:40 PM, Kosta wrote:

> On Aug 4, 2:34 pm, Dave Angel  wrote:
>>
>> + I have released pyKook 0.0.2.
>> +http://pypi.python.org/pypi/Kook/0.0.2
>> +http://www.kuwata-lab.com/kook/
>> +http://www.kuwata-lab.com/kook/pykook-users-guide.html
>>
>> Other possibilities:
>> +  http://pypi.python.org/pypi/vellum/      flexible small 'make'
>> alternative
>>
>> +  http://code.google.com/p/waf/
>>
>> +  http://code.google.com/p/fabricate/
>>
>> DaveA- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Thanks Dave.  I had thought about those three options, and was
> honestly hoping for a foruth (I know, some people are never
> satisfied ;).  I'll look into pyKook.  Thank you for your help.

Poof! Your wish is granted!  =)

http://www.scons.org/

Dunno if you'll find it better, worse or different than the  
alternatives, but there it is.

have fun
P

  


From no.email at please.post  Tue Aug  4 17:57:25 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 21:57:25 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Overlap in python
References: 
Message-ID: 

In  Jay Bird  writes:

>Hi everyone,

>I've been trying to figure out a simple algorithm on how to combine a
>list of parts that have 1D locations that overlap into a non-
>overlapping list.  For example, here would be my input:

>part name   location
>a                  5-9
>b                  7-10
>c                  3-6
>d                  15-20
>e                  18-23

>And here is what I need for an output:
>part name   location
>c.a.b            3-10
>d.e               15-23

>I've tried various methods, which all fail.  Does anyone have an idea
>how to do this?

This problem is basically isomorphic to the problem of finding
connected components in an undirected graph.  If your parts are
nodes in a graph, there's an edge between them if they overlap.

The following is probably overkill, but it works.  It uses the
module pygraph, which you can download from

http://code.google.com/p/python-graph/

The real work is done by its connected_components function.


import pygraph
from pygraph.algorithms.accessibility import connected_components

class Part(object):
    def __init__(self, name, start, finish):
        self.name = name
        if start >= finish:
            raise ValueError("start must be strictly less than finish")
        self.start = start
        self.finish = finish
    def __str__(self):
        return self.name

def combine_parts(parts):
    gr = pygraph.graph()
    gr.add_nodes(parts)
    # connect the nodes
    for i in range(len(parts) - 1):
        part_i = parts[i]
        for j in range(i + 1, len(parts)):
            part_j = parts[j]
            if (part_j.start <= part_i.finish <= part_j.finish or
                part_i.start <= part_j.finish <= part_i.finish):
                gr.add_edge(part_i, part_j)

    cc = connected_components(gr)
    c2n = {}
    # build connected components as lists
    for k, v in cc.items():
        c2n.setdefault(v, []).append(k)

    ret = []
    for nodes in c2n.values():
        nodes.sort(key=lambda x: x.start)
        name = '.'.join(x.name for x in nodes)
        start = min(x.start for x in nodes)
        finish = max(x.finish for x in nodes)
        ret.append((name, start, finish))

    return ret

if __name__ == '__main__':
    data = [Part('a', 5, 9),
            Part('b', 7, 10),
            Part('c', 3, 6),
            Part('d', 15, 20),
            Part('e', 18, 23)]
    print combine_parts(data)


When you run the script above, the output is

[('c.a.b', 3, 10), ('d.e', 15, 23)]

HTH,

kynn


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Tue Aug  4 18:09:33 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 23:09:33 +0100
Subject: Overlap in python
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A78B19D.4020306@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Jay Bird wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I've been trying to figure out a simple algorithm on how to combine a
> list of parts that have 1D locations that overlap into a non-
> overlapping list.  For example, here would be my input:
> 
> part name   location
> a                  5-9
> b                  7-10
> c                  3-6
> d                  15-20
> e                  18-23
> 
> And here is what I need for an output:
> part name   location
> c.a.b            3-10
> d.e               15-23
> 
> I've tried various methods, which all fail.  Does anyone have an idea
> how to do this?
> 
 >>> parts = [(5, 9, "a"), (7, 10, "b"), (3, 6, "c"), (15, 20, "d"), 
(18, 23, "e")]
 >>> parts.sort()
 >>> parts
[(3, 6, 'c'), (5, 9, 'a'), (7, 10, 'b'), (15, 20, 'd'), (18, 23, 'e')]
 >>> # Merge overlapping intervals.
 >>> pos = 1
 >>> while pos < len(parts):
         # Merge the pair in parts[pos - 1 : pos + 1] if they overlap.
         p, q = parts[pos - 1 : pos + 1]
         if p[1] >= q[0]:
                 parts[pos - 1 : pos + 1] = [(p[0], max(p[1], q[1]), 
p[2] + "." + q[2])]
         else:
                 # They don't overlap, so try the next pair.
                 pos += 1


 >>> parts
[(3, 10, 'c.a.b'), (15, 23, 'd.e')]



From no.email at please.post  Tue Aug  4 18:10:18 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 22:10:18 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Overlap in python
References: 
	<78d86d92-d373-4163-a418-600a3eb36ab3@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

In <78d86d92-d373-4163-a418-600a3eb36ab3 at o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> Mark Dickinson  writes:

>On Aug 4, 7:15=A0pm, Jay Bird  wrote:
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> I've been trying to figure out a simple algorithm on how to combine a
>> list of parts that have 1D locations that overlap into a non-
>> overlapping list. =A0For example, here would be my input:
>>
>> part name =A0 location
>> a =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A05-9
>> b =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A07-10
>> c =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A03-6
>> d =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A015-20
>> e =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A018-23
>>
>> And here is what I need for an output:
>> part name =A0 location
>> c.a.b =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A03-10
>> d.e =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 15-23
>>
>> I've tried various methods, which all fail. =A0Does anyone have an idea
>> how to do this?

>Here's an approach that might work.  Turning it into a sensible
>function and parsing input/massaging output properly are left
>as an exercise.  Blocks that just touch (e.g. (3, 6) then (6, 9))
>are amalgamated;  if this isn't what you want, and they should
>be treated as separate instead, then replace 'Stop' with 'Finish'
>(or any other string that sorts before 'Start').


>input =3D [
>    ('a', (5, 9)),
>    ('b', (7, 10)),
>    ('c', (3, 6)),
>    ('d', (15, 20)),
>    ('e', (18, 23)),
>    ]

># create sorted list of points where an interval is entered or left
>transitions =3D []
>for name, (start, stop) in input:
>    transitions.extend([(start, 'Start', name), (stop, 'Stop', name)])
>transitions.sort()

># scan list, accumulating blocks along the way.
>count =3D 0
>for i, (pt, startend, name) in enumerate(transitions):
>    if startend =3D=3D 'Start':
>        if not count:
>            start =3D pt
>            names =3D []
>        count +=3D 1
>        names.append(name)
>    else:
>        count -=3D 1
>        if not count:
>            print '.'.join(names), "%s--%s" % (start, pt)

Very cool.

kynn



From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Tue Aug  4 18:10:33 2009
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (Bearophile)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 15:10:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Overlap in python
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

kj:
> ? ? # connect the nodes
> ? ? for i in range(len(parts) - 1):
> ? ? ? ? part_i = parts[i]
> ? ? ? ? for j in range(i + 1, len(parts)):

Note that's O(N^2), see the O(sort) standard solution by Mark
Dickinson.

Bye,
bearophile


From ryniek90 at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 18:20:21 2009
From: ryniek90 at gmail.com (ryniek90)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 00:20:21 +0200
Subject: How to write replace string for object which will be substituted?
	[regexp]
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A78B425.2010604@gmail.com>

Hi.
I started learning regexp, and some things goes well, but most of them 
still not.

I've got problem with some regexp. Better post code here:

"
 >>> import re
 >>> mail = '\nname at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] 
mail [$dot$] com\n'
 >>> mail
'\nname at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] 
com\n'
 >>> print mail

name at mail.com
name1 [at] mail [dot] com
name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com

 >>> maail = re.sub('^\n|$\n', '', mail)
 >>> print maail
name at mail.com
name1 [at] mail [dot] com
name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com
 >>> maail = re.sub(' ', '', maail)
 >>> print maail
name at mail.com
name1[at]mail[dot]com
name2[$at$]mail[$dot$]com
 >>> maail = re.sub('\[at\]|\[\$at\$\]', '@', maail)
 >>> print maail
name at mail.com
name1 at mail[dot]com
name2 at mail[$dot$]com
 >>> maail = re.sub('\[dot\]|\[\$dot\$\]', '.', maail)
 >>> print maail
name at mail.com
name1 at mail.com
name2 at mail.com
 >>> #How must i write the replace string to replace all this regexp's 
with just ONE command, in string 'mail' ?
 >>> maail = re.sub('^\n|$\n| |\[at\]|\[\$at\$\]|\[dot\]|\[\$dot\$\]', 
*?*, mail)
"

How must i write that replace pattern (look at question mark), to maek 
that substituion work? I didn't saw anything helpful while reading Re 
doc and HowTo (from Python Doc). I tried with 'MatchObject.group()' but 
something gone wrong - didn't wrote it right.
Is there more user friendly HowTo for Python Re, than this?

I'm new to programming an regexp, sorry for inconvenience.




From jay.bird0804 at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 18:21:13 2009
From: jay.bird0804 at gmail.com (Jay Bird)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 15:21:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Overlap in python
References: 
	<4a7892c2$0$2297$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>
Message-ID: 

Hi everyone,

I wanted to thank you all for your help and *excellent* discussion.  I
was able to utilize and embed the script by Grigor Lingl in the 6th
post of this discussion to get my program to work very quickly (I had
to do about 20 comparisons per data bin, with over 40K bins in
total).  I am involved in genomic analysis research and this problem
comes up a lot and I was surprised to not have been able to find a
clear way to solve it.  I will also look through all the tips in this
thread, I have a feeling they may come in handy for future use!

Thank you again,
Jay


From mensanator at aol.com  Tue Aug  4 18:47:16 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 15:47:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Overlap in python
References: 
	<4a7892c2$0$2297$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>
Message-ID: <99c721fe-57fa-4508-9acb-2399ac81b9bf@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 4, 2:57?pm, Gregor Lingl  wrote:
> Jay Bird schrieb:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hi everyone,
>
> > I've been trying to figure out a simple algorithm on how to combine a
> > list of parts that have 1D locations that overlap into a non-
> > overlapping list. ?For example, here would be my input:
>
> > part name ? location
> > a ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?5-9
> > b ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?7-10
> > c ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?3-6
> > d ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?15-20
> > e ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?18-23
>
> > And here is what I need for an output:
> > part name ? location
> > c.a.b ? ? ? ? ? ?3-10
> > d.e ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 15-23
>
> Suppose you have your data given as a dictionary:
>
> data = {'a':(5,9),
> ? ? ? ? ?'b':(7,10),
> ? ? ? ? ?'c':(3,6),
> ? ? ? ? ?'d':(15,20),
> ? ? ? ? ?'e':(18,23)}
>
> Then the following not particularly elegant
> but very simple and straight forward
> algorithm will solve your problem:
>
> def values(key):
> ? ? ?return set(range(data[key][0], data[key][1]+1))
>
> keys = list(data.keys())
> result = []
> while keys:
> ? ? ?k = [keys[0]]
> ? ? ?keys = keys[1:]
> ? ? ?v = values(k[0])
> ? ? ?for l in keys[:]:
> ? ? ? ? ?if v.intersection(values(l)):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?v.update(values(l))
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?k.append(l)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?keys.remove(l)
> ? ? ?result.append((k,v))
>
> # print(result) ## if you like
>
> for k, v in result:
> ? ? ?print(".".join(sorted(k)), "%d-%d" % (min(v), max(v)))
>
> Regards,
> Gregor
>
>
>
> > I've tried various methods, which all fail. ?Does anyone have an idea
> > how to do this?
>
> > Thank you very much!
> > Jay


I was thinking sets, too.

import random

def overlap():
  merge_count = 0
  datam.append(data.pop(0))
  while len(data)>0:
    d0 = data.pop(0)
    dmi = 0
    dmtemp = datam[:]
    while d0:
      dmtest = d0[1].intersection(dmtemp[dmi][1])
      #print(d0,dmtemp[dmi],dmtest)
      if len(dmtest)>0: # overlap
        dmtest = d0[1].union(dmtemp[dmi][1])
        datam[dmi] = (d0[0]+dmtemp[dmi][0],dmtest)
        d0 = None
        dmi = 0
        merge_count += 1
      else:
        dmi += 1
        if dmi == len(dmtemp):
          datam.append(d0)
          d0 = None
  return merge_count # repeat until 0 returned

## OP data
##data=[]
##data.append(('a',set([i for i in range(5,9+1)])))
##data.append(('b',set([i for i in range(7,10+1)])))
##data.append(('c',set([i for i in range(3,6+1)])))
##data.append(('d',set([i for i in range(15,20+1)])))
##data.append(('e',set([i for i in range(18,23+1)])))
##datam = []
##
##print()
##for j in data: print(j)
##print()
##
##
##overlap()
##
##for i in datam:
##  print(i[0],min(i[1]),max(i[1]))
##
##  ('a', {8, 9, 5, 6, 7})
##  ('b', {8, 9, 10, 7})
##  ('c', {3, 4, 5, 6})
##  ('d', {15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20})
##  ('e', {18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23})
##
##  cba 3 10
##  ed 15 23



## special case - repeat overlap test until no merges

data = [('A', {79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86}),
('B', {96, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95}),
('C', {21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28}),
('D', {64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 62, 63}),
('E', {72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79}),
('F', {65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72}),
('G', {11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18}),
('H', {24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31}),
('I', {32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 31}),
('J', {81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88})]
datam = []

##  ('A', {55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62})
##  ('B', {64, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63})
##  ('C', {10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17})
##  ('D', {32, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31})
##  ('E', {54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61})
##  ('F', {64, 65, 66, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63})
##  ('G', {41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48})
##  ('H', {67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74})
##  ('I', {55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62})
##  ('J', {64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 62, 63})
##
##  JIFEBA 54 69
##  C 10 17
##  D 25 32
##  G 41 48
##  H 67 74   <--- NFG overlaps JIFEBA

print()
for j in data: print(j)
print()

merges = 1             # corrects above
while merges > 0:
  merges = overlap()
  print(merges)
  if merges>0:
    data = datam[:]
    datam = []

for i in datam:
  print(i[0],min(i[1]),max(i[1]))

##  corrected
##
##  ('A', {79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86})
##  ('B', {96, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95})
##  ('C', {21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28})
##  ('D', {64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 62, 63})
##  ('E', {72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79})
##  ('F', {65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72})
##  ('G', {11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18})
##  ('H', {24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31})
##  ('I', {32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 31})
##  ('J', {81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88})
##
##  5
##  1
##  0
##  DJFEA 62 88
##  B 89 96
##  IHC 21 38
##  G 11 18


# random sequences
data = []
for j in range(12):
  q = random.randint(0,90)
  r = q+12
  data.append((chr(j+65),set([x for x in range(q,r)])))
datam = []

print()
for j in data: print(j)
print()

merges = 1             # corrects above
while merges > 0:
  merges = overlap()
  print(merges)
  if merges>0:
    data = datam[:]
    datam = []

for i in datam:
  print(i[0],min(i[1]),max(i[1]))

##  ('A', {3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10})
##  ('B', {76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83})
##  ('C', {43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50})
##  ('D', {42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49})
##  ('E', {23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30})
##  ('F', {49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56})
##  ('G', {76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83})
##  ('H', {1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8})
##  ('I', {37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44})
##  ('J', {83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90})
##
##  6
##  0
##  HA 1 10
##  JGB 76 90
##  IFDC 37 56
##  E 23 30

##  ('A', {64, 65, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63})
##  ('B', {34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45})
##  ('C', {16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27})
##  ('D', {70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81})
##  ('E', {64, 65, 66, 67, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63})
##  ('F', {34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45})
##  ('G', {0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11})
##  ('H', {64, 65, 66, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63})
##  ('I', {44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55})
##  ('J', {64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63})
##  ('K', {96, 97, 98, 99, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95})
##  ('L', {96, 97, 98, 99, 100, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95})
##
##  6
##  1
##  0
##  FBJIHEA 34 68
##  C 16 27
##  D 70 81
##  G 0 11
##  LK 88 100




From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Tue Aug  4 18:55:36 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 23:55:36 +0100
Subject: How to write replace string for object which will be substituted?
	[regexp]
In-Reply-To: <4A78B425.2010604@gmail.com>
References: 
	<4A78B425.2010604@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A78BC68.2020601@mrabarnett.plus.com>

ryniek90 wrote:
> Hi.
> I started learning regexp, and some things goes well, but most of them 
> still not.
> 
> I've got problem with some regexp. Better post code here:
> 
> "
>  >>> import re
>  >>> mail = '\nname at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] 
> mail [$dot$] com\n'
>  >>> mail
> '\nname at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] 
> com\n'
>  >>> print mail
> 
> name at mail.com
> name1 [at] mail [dot] com
> name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com
> 
>  >>> maail = re.sub('^\n|$\n', '', mail)
>  >>> print maail
> name at mail.com
> name1 [at] mail [dot] com
> name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com
>  >>> maail = re.sub(' ', '', maail)
>  >>> print maail
> name at mail.com
> name1[at]mail[dot]com
> name2[$at$]mail[$dot$]com
>  >>> maail = re.sub('\[at\]|\[\$at\$\]', '@', maail)
>  >>> print maail
> name at mail.com
> name1 at mail[dot]com
> name2 at mail[$dot$]com
>  >>> maail = re.sub('\[dot\]|\[\$dot\$\]', '.', maail)
>  >>> print maail
> name at mail.com
> name1 at mail.com
> name2 at mail.com
>  >>> #How must i write the replace string to replace all this regexp's 
> with just ONE command, in string 'mail' ?
>  >>> maail = re.sub('^\n|$\n| |\[at\]|\[\$at\$\]|\[dot\]|\[\$dot\$\]', 
> *?*, mail)
> "
> 
> How must i write that replace pattern (look at question mark), to maek 
> that substituion work? I didn't saw anything helpful while reading Re 
> doc and HowTo (from Python Doc). I tried with 'MatchObject.group()' but 
> something gone wrong - didn't wrote it right.
> Is there more user friendly HowTo for Python Re, than this?
> 
> I'm new to programming an regexp, sorry for inconvenience.
> 
I don't think you can do it in one regex, nor would I want to. Just use
the string's replace() method.

 >>> mail = '\nname at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] 
mail [$dot$] com\n'
 >>> mail
'\nname at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] 
com\n'
 >>> print mail

name at mail.com
name1 [at] mail [dot] com
name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com

 >>> maail = mail.strip()
name at mail.com
name1 [at] mail [dot] com
name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com

 >>> maail = maail.replace(' ', '')
 >>> print maail
name at mail.com
name1[at]mail[dot]com
name2[$at$]mail[$dot$]com
 >>> maail = maail.replace('[at]', '@').replace('[$at$]', '@')
 >>> print maail
name at mail.com
name1 at mail[dot]com
name2 at mail[$dot$]com
 >>> maail = maail.replace('[dot]', '.').replace('[$dot$]', '.')
 >>> print maail
name at mail.com
name1 at mail.com
name2 at mail.com


From sam at tregar.com  Tue Aug  4 19:50:29 2009
From: sam at tregar.com (Sam Tregar)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 19:50:29 -0400
Subject: Online payment module
In-Reply-To: <1e364c4e0908041325h5be577dq2363fba4c39af05b@mail.gmail.com>
References: 
	<1e364c4e0908041325h5be577dq2363fba4c39af05b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 4:25 PM, Kushal Kumaran <
kushal.kumaran+python at gmail.com > wrote:

>
> Not really familiar with this area, but have you seen these?
>
> http://code.google.com/p/pypaypal/
> http://www.geteasyshop.com/front-page
>

Thanks, but neither of these are remotely what I'm looking for!  The first
is an API for accessing PayPal, but not the one I'll be using - this one has
only one release and hasn't been updated in over a year, looks basically
useless.  The other is a full-fledged e-commerce application, not a code
library.

-sam
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

From alex at moreati.org.uk  Tue Aug  4 20:30:05 2009
From: alex at moreati.org.uk (Alex Willmer)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 17:30:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: New implementation of re module
References: 
Message-ID: <380ee69c-b498-4f99-8bca-2f680dd0171b@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Jul 27, 5:34?pm, MRAB  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I've been working on a new implementation of the re module. The details
> are athttp://bugs.python.org/issue2636, specifically fromhttp://bugs.python.org/issue2636#msg90954. I've included a .pyd file for
> Python 2.6 on Windows if you want to try it out.

Firstly Matthew, thank you for all your work on this. It brings some
very nice regex features to Python.

I've used Christopher Arndt's post as a basis and created a package
from you latest upload (issue2636-20090804.zip), which builds for
Python 2.5 and 2.6. I'd like to see this on PyPI, so it's easier to
install the module and your work gets wider exposure. Would this be
alright and would you prefer to have control of the upload, as this is
your work?

Below is the setup.py, the unicodedata_db.h files are taken from the
appropriate branches on svn.python.org

#!/usr/bin/env python

import shutil
import sys
from distutils.core import setup, Extension

MAJOR, MINOR = sys.version_info[:2]

# Copy appropriate unicodedata_db.h, not found in published includes
if (MAJOR, MINOR) == (2, 6):
    shutil.copy('Python26/unicodedata_db.h', './')
elif (MAJOR, MINOR) == (2, 5):
    shutil.copy('Python25/unicodedata_db.h', './')
else:
    print "WARNING: No unicodedata_db.h prepared."

setup(
    name='regex',
    version='20080804',
    description='Alternate regular expression module, to replace re.',
    author='Matthew Barnett',
    author_email='python at mrabarnett.nospam.plus.com', # Obsfucated
    url='http://bugs.python.org/issue2636',
    py_modules = ['regex'],
    ext_modules=[Extension('_regex', ['_regex.c'])],
    )


Sincerely, Alex Willmer


From missive at hotmail.com  Tue Aug  4 21:01:14 2009
From: missive at hotmail.com (Lee Harr)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 05:31:14 +0430
Subject: [ANNC] pybotwar-0.4
Message-ID: 


pybotwar is a fun and educational game where players
create computer programs to control simulated robots
to compete in a battle arena.

http://pybotwar.googlecode.com/


pybotwar uses pybox2d for the physical simulation,
and uses pygame and pygsear for the visualization.

pybotwar is released under GPLv3.


Changes in pybotwar-0.4:
    - added display of robot status
    - added configuration file for easier testing of various options
        - remove / don't remove dead robots
        - robot max health
        - physics values (force, torque, mass, bullet speed)
    - add non graphics mode (for much faster resolution of battles)
    - fixed cannon heating going below zero


_________________________________________________________________
Drag n? drop?Get easy photo sharing with Windows Live? Photos.

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/products/photos.aspx


From koranthala at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 21:29:17 2009
From: koranthala at gmail.com (koranthala)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 18:29:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: My first wxPython App with Twisted
Message-ID: 

Hi,
   I am creating the first GUI app (wxPython based) using Twisted.
   I am facing an issue which I cannot seem to solve/understand due
to lack of trace or anything.

   I had a big app written on twisted and now I am creating a login
screen to the app.
   The app used to work without any issues. I added the login screen
and the login screen comes up.
    But then everything freezes up. I have to force quit the python
application to get anything back. Can anyone help me solve it?

   The code is as follows:

import wx
import os
import logging

from twisted.internet import wxreactor
wxreactor.install()
from twisted.internet import reactor #Called only after
wxreactor.install()
from twisted.internet.task import LoopingCall

import clientapp

def opj(path):
   """ Convert paths to the platform-specific separator """
   st = apply(os.path.join, tuple(path.split('/')))
   if path.startswith('/'):
       st = '/' + st
   return st


class APPApp(wx.App):
   def OnInit(self):
       self.frame = APPFrame(None, -1, " APP Login", size=(200, 150))
       self.panel = APPPanel(self.frame,-1)
       #client.run method does the verification etc along with other
items
       client = clientapp.setup_app()
       call = LoopingCall(client.run)
       call.start(.51)
       return True


def main():
   app = APPApp(0)
   reactor.registerWxApp(app)
   try:
       reactor.run()
   except StandardError:
       raise


class APPPanel(wx.Panel):
   """ APP GUI PANEL

   The panel in which the user name and password is typed.
   @var ID_LOGIN: Login buttons id. When this button is clicked, the
data
       is stored for logging.

   """
   ID_LOGIN = wx.NewId()

   def __init__(self, parent, id):
       self.parent = parent
       wx.Panel.__init__(self, parent, id, size=(200,150))
       self.quote = wx.StaticText(self, -1, "APP Login",wx.Point(60,
10))
       wx.StaticText(self, wx.ID_ANY, "User Name ", wx.Point(20, 33))
       wx.StaticText(self, wx.ID_ANY, "Password ", wx.Point(20, 58))
       self.usernameBox = wx.TextCtrl(self, wx.ID_ANY, "",
wx.Point(80, 31), wx.Size(100, wx.ID_ANY))
       self.usernameBox.SetFocus()
       self.passwordBox = wx.TextCtrl(self, wx.ID_ANY, "",
wx.Point(80, 56), wx.Size(100, wx.ID_ANY), style=wx.TE_PASSWORD)
       self.button =wx.Button(self, self.ID_LOGIN, "Login", wx.Point
(60, 88))
       wx.EVT_BUTTON(parent, self.ID_LOGIN, self.on_login)

   def on_login(self, event):
       username = self.usernameBox.GetString(0, 128)
       password = self.passwordBox.GetString(0, 128)
       if username and password:
           self.parent.on_login_click(username, password)


class APPTaskBarIcon(wx.TaskBarIcon):
   ''' TaskBar Icon

   So that the application is always alive on the taskbar.
   3 operations are possible, DoubleClick on the taskbar would bring
up the
   window, right click will bring up options to restore or exit the
tool.

   '''
   TBMENU_RESTORE = wx.NewId()
   TBMENU_CLOSE   = wx.NewId()

   def __init__(self, frame):
       wx.TaskBarIcon.__init__(self)
       self.frame = frame
       # Set the image
       icon = self.MakeIcon(self.frame.get_image())
       self.SetIcon(icon, "APP")
       self.imgidx = 1
       # bind some events
       self.Bind(wx.EVT_TASKBAR_LEFT_DCLICK, self.OnTaskBarActivate)
       self.Bind(wx.EVT_MENU, self.OnTaskBarActivate,
id=self.TBMENU_RESTORE)
       self.Bind(wx.EVT_MENU, self.OnTaskBarClose,
id=self.TBMENU_CLOSE)

   def CreatePopupMenu(self):
       """ Right Click Popup Menu

       This method is called by the base class when it needs to popup
       the menu for the default EVT_RIGHT_DOWN event.

       """
       menu = wx.Menu()
       menu.Append(self.TBMENU_RESTORE, "Restore Window")
       menu.Append(self.TBMENU_CLOSE, "Exit APP")
       return menu

   def MakeIcon(self, img):
       """ Return the generated Icon.

       This function is required because various platforms have
different
       requirements for the icon size.

       """
       if "wxMSW" in wx.PlatformInfo:
           img = img.Scale(16, 16)
       elif "wxGTK" in wx.PlatformInfo:
           img = img.Scale(22, 22)
       icon = wx.IconFromBitmap(img.ConvertToBitmap() )
       return icon

   def OnTaskBarActivate(self, evt):
       ''' Activation code - say DoubleClick etc. It raises the window
'''
       if self.frame.IsIconized():
           self.frame.Iconize(False)
       if not self.frame.IsShown():
           self.frame.Show(True)
       self.frame.Raise()

   def OnTaskBarClose(self, evt):
       ''' On right click and close, the frame itself is closed '''
       wx.CallAfter(self.frame.Close)


class APPFrame(wx.Frame):
   def __init__(self, parent, id, title, size=None):
       wx.Frame.__init__(self, parent, id, title,
                         size=size, pos=wx.Point(400, 300))
       icon = self.get_icon()
       self.SetIcon(icon)
       self.tbicon = APPTaskBarIcon(self)
       self.Show(True)
       self.Bind(wx.EVT_CLOSE, self.OnCloseWindow)
       self.Bind(wx.EVT_ICONIZE, self.OnIconify)

   def on_login_click(self, username, password):
       self.Hide()

   def OnCloseWindow(self, event):
       if self.tbicon is not None:
           self.tbicon.Destroy()
       event.Skip()

   def OnIconify(self, event):
       self.Hide()

   def get_image(self):
       img= wx.Image(opj('client.ico'), wx.BITMAP_TYPE_ICO)
       return img

   def get_icon(self):
       img = self.get_image()
       icon = wx.IconFromBitmap(img.ConvertToBitmap() )
       return icon


if __name__ == '__main__':
   main()


--------------
If somebody can help me out, I would be much obliged.


From koranthala at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 21:39:49 2009
From: koranthala at gmail.com (koranthala)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 18:39:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: My first wxPython App with Twisted
References: 
Message-ID: <15ec22f4-7bcf-4a7f-81e0-ad98004adde4@p36g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 5, 6:29?am, koranthala  wrote:
> Hi,
> ? ?I am creating the first GUI app (wxPython based) using Twisted.
> ? ?I am facing an issue which I cannot seem to solve/understand due
> to lack of trace or anything.
>
> ? ?I had a big app written on twisted and now I am creating a login
> screen to the app.
> ? ?The app used to work without any issues. I added the login screen
> and the login screen comes up.
> ? ? But then everything freezes up. I have to force quit the python
> application to get anything back. Can anyone help me solve it?
>
> ? ?The code is as follows:
>
> import wx
> import os
> import logging
>
> from twisted.internet import wxreactor
> wxreactor.install()
> from twisted.internet import reactor #Called only after
> wxreactor.install()
> from twisted.internet.task import LoopingCall
>
> import clientapp
>
> def opj(path):
> ? ?""" Convert paths to the platform-specific separator """
> ? ?st = apply(os.path.join, tuple(path.split('/')))
> ? ?if path.startswith('/'):
> ? ? ? ?st = '/' + st
> ? ?return st
>
> class APPApp(wx.App):
> ? ?def OnInit(self):
> ? ? ? ?self.frame = APPFrame(None, -1, " APP Login", size=(200, 150))
> ? ? ? ?self.panel = APPPanel(self.frame,-1)
> ? ? ? ?#client.run method does the verification etc along with other
> items
> ? ? ? ?client = clientapp.setup_app()
> ? ? ? ?call = LoopingCall(client.run)
> ? ? ? ?call.start(.51)
> ? ? ? ?return True
>
> def main():
> ? ?app = APPApp(0)
> ? ?reactor.registerWxApp(app)
> ? ?try:
> ? ? ? ?reactor.run()
> ? ?except StandardError:
> ? ? ? ?raise
>
> class APPPanel(wx.Panel):
> ? ?""" APP GUI PANEL
>
> ? ?The panel in which the user name and password is typed.
> ? ?@var ID_LOGIN: Login buttons id. When this button is clicked, the
> data
> ? ? ? ?is stored for logging.
>
> ? ?"""
> ? ?ID_LOGIN = wx.NewId()
>
> ? ?def __init__(self, parent, id):
> ? ? ? ?self.parent = parent
> ? ? ? ?wx.Panel.__init__(self, parent, id, size=(200,150))
> ? ? ? ?self.quote = wx.StaticText(self, -1, "APP Login",wx.Point(60,
> 10))
> ? ? ? ?wx.StaticText(self, wx.ID_ANY, "User Name ", wx.Point(20, 33))
> ? ? ? ?wx.StaticText(self, wx.ID_ANY, "Password ", wx.Point(20, 58))
> ? ? ? ?self.usernameBox = wx.TextCtrl(self, wx.ID_ANY, "",
> wx.Point(80, 31), wx.Size(100, wx.ID_ANY))
> ? ? ? ?self.usernameBox.SetFocus()
> ? ? ? ?self.passwordBox = wx.TextCtrl(self, wx.ID_ANY, "",
> wx.Point(80, 56), wx.Size(100, wx.ID_ANY), style=wx.TE_PASSWORD)
> ? ? ? ?self.button =wx.Button(self, self.ID_LOGIN, "Login", wx.Point
> (60, 88))
> ? ? ? ?wx.EVT_BUTTON(parent, self.ID_LOGIN, self.on_login)
>
> ? ?def on_login(self, event):
> ? ? ? ?username = self.usernameBox.GetString(0, 128)
> ? ? ? ?password = self.passwordBox.GetString(0, 128)
> ? ? ? ?if username and password:
> ? ? ? ? ? ?self.parent.on_login_click(username, password)
>
> class APPTaskBarIcon(wx.TaskBarIcon):
> ? ?''' TaskBar Icon
>
> ? ?So that the application is always alive on the taskbar.
> ? ?3 operations are possible, DoubleClick on the taskbar would bring
> up the
> ? ?window, right click will bring up options to restore or exit the
> tool.
>
> ? ?'''
> ? ?TBMENU_RESTORE = wx.NewId()
> ? ?TBMENU_CLOSE ? = wx.NewId()
>
> ? ?def __init__(self, frame):
> ? ? ? ?wx.TaskBarIcon.__init__(self)
> ? ? ? ?self.frame = frame
> ? ? ? ?# Set the image
> ? ? ? ?icon = self.MakeIcon(self.frame.get_image())
> ? ? ? ?self.SetIcon(icon, "APP")
> ? ? ? ?self.imgidx = 1
> ? ? ? ?# bind some events
> ? ? ? ?self.Bind(wx.EVT_TASKBAR_LEFT_DCLICK, self.OnTaskBarActivate)
> ? ? ? ?self.Bind(wx.EVT_MENU, self.OnTaskBarActivate,
> id=self.TBMENU_RESTORE)
> ? ? ? ?self.Bind(wx.EVT_MENU, self.OnTaskBarClose,
> id=self.TBMENU_CLOSE)
>
> ? ?def CreatePopupMenu(self):
> ? ? ? ?""" Right Click Popup Menu
>
> ? ? ? ?This method is called by the base class when it needs to popup
> ? ? ? ?the menu for the default EVT_RIGHT_DOWN event.
>
> ? ? ? ?"""
> ? ? ? ?menu = wx.Menu()
> ? ? ? ?menu.Append(self.TBMENU_RESTORE, "Restore Window")
> ? ? ? ?menu.Append(self.TBMENU_CLOSE, "Exit APP")
> ? ? ? ?return menu
>
> ? ?def MakeIcon(self, img):
> ? ? ? ?""" Return the generated Icon.
>
> ? ? ? ?This function is required because various platforms have
> different
> ? ? ? ?requirements for the icon size.
>
> ? ? ? ?"""
> ? ? ? ?if "wxMSW" in wx.PlatformInfo:
> ? ? ? ? ? ?img = img.Scale(16, 16)
> ? ? ? ?elif "wxGTK" in wx.PlatformInfo:
> ? ? ? ? ? ?img = img.Scale(22, 22)
> ? ? ? ?icon = wx.IconFromBitmap(img.ConvertToBitmap() )
> ? ? ? ?return icon
>
> ? ?def OnTaskBarActivate(self, evt):
> ? ? ? ?''' Activation code - say DoubleClick etc. It raises the window
> '''
> ? ? ? ?if self.frame.IsIconized():
> ? ? ? ? ? ?self.frame.Iconize(False)
> ? ? ? ?if not self.frame.IsShown():
> ? ? ? ? ? ?self.frame.Show(True)
> ? ? ? ?self.frame.Raise()
>
> ? ?def OnTaskBarClose(self, evt):
> ? ? ? ?''' On right click and close, the frame itself is closed '''
> ? ? ? ?wx.CallAfter(self.frame.Close)
>
> class APPFrame(wx.Frame):
> ? ?def __init__(self, parent, id, title, size=None):
> ? ? ? ?wx.Frame.__init__(self, parent, id, title,
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?size=size, pos=wx.Point(400, 300))
> ? ? ? ?icon = self.get_icon()
> ? ? ? ?self.SetIcon(icon)
> ? ? ? ?self.tbicon = APPTaskBarIcon(self)
> ? ? ? ?self.Show(True)
> ? ? ? ?self.Bind(wx.EVT_CLOSE, self.OnCloseWindow)
> ? ? ? ?self.Bind(wx.EVT_ICONIZE, self.OnIconify)
>
> ? ?def on_login_click(self, username, password):
> ? ? ? ?self.Hide()
>
> ? ?def OnCloseWindow(self, event):
> ? ? ? ?if self.tbicon is not None:
> ? ? ? ? ? ?self.tbicon.Destroy()
> ? ? ? ?event.Skip()
>
> ? ?def OnIconify(self, event):
> ? ? ? ?self.Hide()
>
> ? ?def get_image(self):
> ? ? ? ?img= wx.Image(opj('client.ico'), wx.BITMAP_TYPE_ICO)
> ? ? ? ?return img
>
> ? ?def get_icon(self):
> ? ? ? ?img = self.get_image()
> ? ? ? ?icon = wx.IconFromBitmap(img.ConvertToBitmap() )
> ? ? ? ?return icon
>
> if __name__ == '__main__':
> ? ?main()
>
> --------------
> If somebody can help me out, I would be much obliged.

Please disregard this mail. I will post a barebones version separately.


From koranthala at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 21:41:40 2009
From: koranthala at gmail.com (koranthala)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 18:41:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: My first wxPython App with Twisted - barebones version
Message-ID: <735ece44-08f5-4120-966f-28489299c443@o9g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

Hi,
   I am creating the first GUI app (wxPython based) using Twisted.
   I am facing an issue which I cannot seem to solve/understand due
to lack of trace or anything.
   I had a big app written on twisted and now I am creating a login
screen to the app.
   The app used to work without any issues. I added the login screen
and the login screen comes up.
    But then everything freezes up. I have to force quit the python
application to get anything back. Can anyone help me solve it?
   The code is as follows:

import wx
import os
import logging

from twisted.internet import wxreactor
wxreactor.install()
from twisted.internet import reactor #Called only after
wxreactor.install()
from twisted.internet.task import LoopingCall

import clientapp


def opj(path):
    """ Convert paths to the platform-specific separator """
    st = apply(os.path.join, tuple(path.split('/')))
    if path.startswith('/'):
        st = '/' + st
    return st


class APPApp(wx.App):
    def OnInit(self):
        self.frame = APPFrame(None, -1, " APP Login", size=(200, 150))
        self.panel = APPPanel(self.frame,-1)
        client = clientapp.setup_app()
        call = LoopingCall(client.run)
        call.start(.51)
        return True


def main():
    app = APPApp(0)
    reactor.registerWxApp(app)
    try:
        reactor.run()
    except StandardError:
        raise


class APPFrame(wx.Frame):
    def __init__(self, parent, id, title, size=None):
        wx.Frame.__init__(self, parent, id, title,
                          size=size, pos=wx.Point(400, 300))
        icon = self.get_icon()
        self.SetIcon(icon)
        self.Show(True)
        self.Bind(wx.EVT_CLOSE, self.OnCloseWindow)
        self.Bind(wx.EVT_ICONIZE, self.OnIconify)

    def on_login_click(self, username, password):
        self.Hide()

    def OnCloseWindow(self, event):
        event.Skip()

    def OnIconify(self, event):
        self.Hide()

    def get_image(self):
        img= wx.Image(opj('client.ico'), wx.BITMAP_TYPE_ICO)
        return img

    def get_icon(self):
        img = self.get_image()
        icon = wx.IconFromBitmap(img.ConvertToBitmap() )
        return icon


if __name__ == '__main__':
    main()


From geomajor56 at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 22:06:27 2009
From: geomajor56 at gmail.com (Michael Savarese)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 22:06:27 -0400
Subject: os.walk()
Message-ID: <75c8645a0908041906s138c1499k59cd57d569a5c83e@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings
Python newbie here, and thanks to all who have helped me previously.
Is there a way of grabbing file attributes while traversing with os.walk()?
It would be advantageous to have date modified and file size along with the
file name.
If anyone can point me in the right direction, I'd appreciate it.
Thanks in advance

Mike S
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From erikwickstrom at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 22:37:32 2009
From: erikwickstrom at gmail.com (erikcw)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 19:37:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is this a bug in multiprocessing or in my script?
Message-ID: 

Hi,

I'm trying to get multiprocessing to working consistently with my
script.  I keep getting random tracebacks with no helpful
information.  Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "scraper.py", line 144, in 
    print pool.map(scrape, range(10))
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/multiprocessing/pool.py", line 148, in map
    return self.map_async(func, iterable, chunksize).get()
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/multiprocessing/pool.py", line 422, in get
    raise self._value
TypeError: expected string or buffer

It's not always the same traceback, but they are always short like
this.  I'm running Python 2.6.2 on Ubuntu 9.04.

Any idea how I can debug this?

Thanks!
Erik


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Tue Aug  4 22:48:45 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 19:48:45 -0700
Subject: os.walk()
In-Reply-To: <75c8645a0908041906s138c1499k59cd57d569a5c83e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <75c8645a0908041906s138c1499k59cd57d569a5c83e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908041948q31a30819g29e3d7f196e94074@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 7:06 PM, Michael Savarese wrote:
> Greetings
> Python newbie here, and thanks to all who have helped me previously.
> Is there a way of grabbing file attributes while traversing with os.walk()?
> It would be advantageous to have date modified and file size along with the
> file name.
> If anyone can point me in the right direction, I'd appreciate it.

Feed the path to os.stat(), and then use the `stat` module on the result:
http://docs.python.org/library/os.html#os.stat
http://docs.python.org/library/stat.html#module-stat

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From koranthala at gmail.com  Tue Aug  4 22:51:55 2009
From: koranthala at gmail.com (koranthala)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 19:51:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: My first wxPython App with Twisted - barebones version
References: <735ece44-08f5-4120-966f-28489299c443@o9g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6b487c43-814f-4130-b104-2b80795ed389@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 5, 6:41?am, koranthala  wrote:
> Hi,
> ? ?I am creating the first GUI app (wxPython based) using Twisted.
> ? ?I am facing an issue which I cannot seem to solve/understand due
> to lack of trace or anything.
> ? ?I had a big app written on twisted and now I am creating a login
> screen to the app.
> ? ?The app used to work without any issues. I added the login screen
> and the login screen comes up.
> ? ? But then everything freezes up. I have to force quit the python
> application to get anything back. Can anyone help me solve it?
> ? ?The code is as follows:
>
> import wx
> import os
> import logging
>
> from twisted.internet import wxreactor
> wxreactor.install()
> from twisted.internet import reactor #Called only after
> wxreactor.install()
> from twisted.internet.task import LoopingCall
>
> import clientapp
>
> def opj(path):
> ? ? """ Convert paths to the platform-specific separator """
> ? ? st = apply(os.path.join, tuple(path.split('/')))
> ? ? if path.startswith('/'):
> ? ? ? ? st = '/' + st
> ? ? return st
>
> class APPApp(wx.App):
> ? ? def OnInit(self):
> ? ? ? ? self.frame = APPFrame(None, -1, " APP Login", size=(200, 150))
> ? ? ? ? self.panel = APPPanel(self.frame,-1)
> ? ? ? ? client = clientapp.setup_app()
> ? ? ? ? call = LoopingCall(client.run)
> ? ? ? ? call.start(.51)
> ? ? ? ? return True
>
> def main():
> ? ? app = APPApp(0)
> ? ? reactor.registerWxApp(app)
> ? ? try:
> ? ? ? ? reactor.run()
> ? ? except StandardError:
> ? ? ? ? raise
>
> class APPFrame(wx.Frame):
> ? ? def __init__(self, parent, id, title, size=None):
> ? ? ? ? wx.Frame.__init__(self, parent, id, title,
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? size=size, pos=wx.Point(400, 300))
> ? ? ? ? icon = self.get_icon()
> ? ? ? ? self.SetIcon(icon)
> ? ? ? ? self.Show(True)
> ? ? ? ? self.Bind(wx.EVT_CLOSE, self.OnCloseWindow)
> ? ? ? ? self.Bind(wx.EVT_ICONIZE, self.OnIconify)
>
> ? ? def on_login_click(self, username, password):
> ? ? ? ? self.Hide()
>
> ? ? def OnCloseWindow(self, event):
> ? ? ? ? event.Skip()
>
> ? ? def OnIconify(self, event):
> ? ? ? ? self.Hide()
>
> ? ? def get_image(self):
> ? ? ? ? img= wx.Image(opj('client.ico'), wx.BITMAP_TYPE_ICO)
> ? ? ? ? return img
>
> ? ? def get_icon(self):
> ? ? ? ? img = self.get_image()
> ? ? ? ? icon = wx.IconFromBitmap(img.ConvertToBitmap() )
> ? ? ? ? return icon
>
> if __name__ == '__main__':
> ? ? main()

Sorry for spamming this group.
I found that this was due to a interaction with pyHook and the
wxPython GUI.
I havent solved it, but atleast it is not due to twisted and wxPython.


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Tue Aug  4 23:07:26 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 13:07:26 +1000
Subject: no-clobber dicts?
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <00027aa9$0$2969$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 5 Aug 2009 06:01 am kj wrote:

> In  Steven
> D'Aprano  writes:
> 
>>class ConstantNamespace(dict):
> 
> 
>>I also have a series of unit tests for it if you're interested in them.
> 
> Actually, come to think of it, I think I'll take you up on this.
> I'd love to see those tests.  Unit testing in Python is in area I
> need to work on.


No problem. Here you go:

http://www.cybersource.com.au/users/steve/python/constants.py

Comments welcome.



-- 
Steven


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Tue Aug  4 23:46:30 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 20:46:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is python buffer overflow proof?
References:  
	
	 
	
	<7dnissF2bthr0U1@mid.uni-berlin.de> 
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 4, 2:27?pm, Tim Chase  wrote:

> You *can* shoot yourself in the foot with Python, you just have
> to aim much more carefully than you do with C/C++.

You can e.g. define a class with a __del__ method and make some
circular references. That should give you a nice memory leak.



From IDOL at il.ibm.com  Wed Aug  5 00:24:48 2009
From: IDOL at il.ibm.com (Ido Levy)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 07:24:48 +0300
Subject: How to fetch an XML file using an HTTPS query
In-Reply-To: <49b3a7400908040641l5f5daaa8v374041b7fbac442a@mail.gmail.com>
References: 	<49b3a7400908040638h46d4e4dcxe5cd4120e9c2c7a1@mail.gmail.com>
	<49b3a7400908040641l5f5daaa8v374041b7fbac442a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

Hi Tycho,

Thank you for your advice.

My problem was in the query itself, I replaced every space character with 
'%20' and it works.
You are right, the Python code below does do the work.

Ido



From:
Tycho Andersen 
To:
python-list at python.org
Date:
04/08/2009 04:42 PM
Subject:
Re: How to fetch an XML file using an HTTPS query



Blah, forgot to include the list. When is python-list going to get 
Reply-To?

\t

On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 8:38 AM, Tycho Andersen wrote:
> Hi Ido,
>
> On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 6:25 AM, Ido Levy wrote:
>> [snip]
>> I got the following result in both cases:
>>         
>>         
>>         Invalid filter passed.
>>         
>
> To me, this doesn't look like a python problem: the application was
> successfully connected to and returned a result. The problem you're
> experiencing is that it wasn't the result you expected. Are you sure
> you're setting the right headers, posting the right form values, etc.
> and giving the app exactly what it wants?
>
> \t
>
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


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From hjtoi-better-remove-before-reply at comcast.net  Wed Aug  5 00:50:31 2009
From: hjtoi-better-remove-before-reply at comcast.net (Heikki Toivonen)
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 21:50:31 -0700
Subject: M2Crypto: How to generate subjectKeyIdentifier /
	authorityKeyIdentifier
References: 
Message-ID: 

Matthias G?ntert wrote:
> I am trying to add the extensions "subjectKeyIdentifier" and
> "authorityKeyIdentifier" to a x509v3 certificate. 

M2Crypto has a couple of bugs open related that, with potential
workarounds that I haven't yet deemed polished enough to checkin, but
which might help you out:

https://bugzilla.osafoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7530
https://bugzilla.osafoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12151

-- 
  Heikki Toivonen - http://heikkitoivonen.net


From nick.m.daly at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 01:06:45 2009
From: nick.m.daly at gmail.com (Nick Daly)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 00:06:45 -0500
Subject: The Perils of PyContract (and Generators)
Message-ID: <4A791365.50905@gmail.com>

So, just in case any body else runs into this strange, strange
happening, I thought I might as well document it somewhere Google can
find it.  Contracts for Python[0] and generators don't necessarily play
well together.  This mail comes in three parts, first, the example code
that didn't work at all, second, a more in-depth view of the situation
while you mull over the solution, and third, the answer.

The trouble with this example is that even with all the (2 lines of)
boilerplate code required to make PyContract work, the entire example is
all of about a dozen lines long.  The lines after the "post:" directive
are executed every time the function returns, and if any one of them is
false, PyContract raises an exception, preventing the calling code from
acting on bad data:

    import os

    def find_files(name, directory="."):
        """Finds files with the sub-string name in the name.

        post:
            forall(__return__, lambda filename: name in filename)

        """
        for root, dirs, files in os.walk(directory):
            for the_file in files:
                if name in the_file:
                   yield the_file

    import contract
    contract.checkmod(__name__)

That's it.  We're just walking the directory and returning the next
matching item in the generator when it's called.  However, if we try
executing this simple function in ipy (Interactive Python, not Iron
Python), nothing works as you'd expect:

In a directory containing 4 files:

    ["one fish", "two fish", "red fish", "blue fish"]

    >>> find_files("fish")
    

    >>> z = find_files("fish")
    >>> z.next()
    StopIteration: ...


Apparently our generator object is empty whenever it's returned.  When
adding a print statement right before the yield, we see:

    >>> z = find_files("o")
    "one fish"
    "two fish"
    

    >>> z.next()
    StopIteration: ...

Why are they printing during the function?  Why is everything printing
before the function even returns??  Has my python croaked?  (How actors
and serpents could both behave like amphibians is beyond me)

The trouble is that when the yield statement is replaced with a return
statement, everything works exactly as you might expect.  It's perfect.
 Unit tests don't fail, doctests are happy, and dependent code works
exactly as advertised.  When you turn it back into a generator though,
well, generating empty lists for everything isn't helpful.

Getting irritated at it, I eventually just decided to comment out and
remove as many lines as possible (11) without actually breaking the
example, at which point it started working...  What?

The problem actually lies in the contract.  Generally, the PyContract
shouldn't affect the return values or in any way modify the code, which
it doesn't, as long as the function returns a list values (the way the
code had in fact originally been written).  However, the contract
mentioned above is actually quite wrong for a generator.  PyContract's
forall function checks every value in the list (exhausting the list)
before returning it, and actually operates on the actual return value,
and not a copy.  Thus, when the forall function verifies all the values
in the list, it's generating every value in the list, emptying the
generator before it's returned.

Correcting the above example involves doing nothing more than
simplifying the contract:

    post:
        name in __return__

So, in conclusion, generators and PyContract's forall() function don't
mix, and PyContract doesn't operate off of a copy of your parameters
unless you explicitly tell it so (I don't think it ever operates off a
copy of your return value).

Nick

0: http://www.wayforward.net/pycontract/


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Wed Aug  5 01:21:20 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 22:21:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is this a bug in multiprocessing or in my script?
References: 
Message-ID: <2f26a239-2f06-40f8-b0f0-d2e55edbe5e5@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 5, 4:37 am, erikcw  wrote:

> It's not always the same traceback, but they are always short like
> this.  I'm running Python 2.6.2 on Ubuntu 9.04.
>
> Any idea how I can debug this?

In my experience, multiprocessing is fragile. Scripts tend fo fail for
no obvious reason, case processes to be orphaned and linger, system-
wide resource leaks, etc. For example, multiprocessing uses os._exit
to stop a spawned process, even though it inevitably results in
resource leaks on Linux (it should use sys.exit). Ga?l Varoquaux and I
noticed this when we implemented shared memory ndarrays for numpy; we
consistently got memory leaks with System V IPC for no obvious reason.
Even after Jesse Noller was informed of the problem (about half a year
ago), the bug still lingers. It is easy edit multiprocessing's
forking.py file on you own, but bugs like this is a pain in the ass,
and I suspect multiprocessing has many of them. Of course unless you
show us you whole script, identifying the source of your bug will be
impossible. But it may very likely be in multiprocessing as well. The
quality of this module is not impressing. I am beginning to think that
multiprocessing should never have made it into the Python standard
library. The GIL cannot be that bad! If you can't stand the GIL, get a
Unix (or Mac, Linux, Cygwin) and use os.fork. Or simply switch to a
non-GIL Python: IronPython or Jython.

Allow me to show you something better. With os.fork we can write code
like this:

class parallel(object):

   def __enter__(self):
       # call os.fork

   def __exit__(self, exc_type, exc_value, traceback):
       # call sys.exit in the child processes and
       # os.waitpid in the parent

   def __call__(self, iterable):
       # return different sub-subsequences depending on
       # child or parent status


with parallel() as p:
    # parallel block starts here

    for item in p(iterable):
        # whatever

    # parallel block ends here

This makes parallel code a lot cleaner than anything you can do with
multiprocessing, allowing you to use constructs similar to OpenMP.
Further, if you make 'parallel' a dummy context manager, you can
develop and test the algorithms serially. The only drawback is that
you have to use Cygwin to get os.fork on Windows, and forking will be
less efficient (no copy-on-write optimization). Well, this is just one
example of why Windows sucks from the perspective of the programmer.
But it also shows that you can do much better by not using
multiprocessing at all.

The only case I can think of where multiprocessing would be usesful,
is I/O bound code on Windows. But here you will almost always resort
to C extension modules. For I/O bound code, Python tends to give you a
200x speed penalty over C. If you are resorting to C anyway, you can
just use OpenMP in C for your parallel processing. We can thus forget
about multiprocessing here as well, given that we have access to the C
code. If we don't, it is still very likely that the C code releases
the GIL, and we can get away with using Python threads instead of
multiprocessing.

IMHO, if you are using multiprocessing, you are very likely to have a
design problem.

Regards,
Sturla




From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 01:45:50 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 22:45:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Announcing PythonTurtle
References:  
	
Message-ID: <80f475f8-e6ea-4960-bdb8-86a90c60d656@y10g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

John Posner  wrote:
> OK, then why the statements "from turtle import *" in the modules
> turtleprocess.py and turtlewidget.py?

Looking in the source I'd say it's because there's a local turtle.py.


From mensanator at aol.com  Wed Aug  5 01:49:16 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 22:49:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Turtle Graphics are incompatible with gmpy
Message-ID: 

I hadn't noticed this before, but the overhaul of Turtle Graphics
dating
back to 2.6 has been broken as far as gmpy is concerned.

I hadn't noticed because I usually have tracing turned off (tracing
off
takes 3-4 seconds, tracing on takes 6-7 minutes).

In 3.1, tracing is now a screen attribute, not a turtle atribute.
I have no idea why

  tooter = turtle.Turtle()
  tooter.tracer(False)

doesn't give me an error (I thought silent errors were a bad thing).

Had to change to

  tooter = turtle.Turtle()
  tooter.screen.tracer(False) # tracer now a screen attribute

to turn tracing off in 3.1.

Naturally, having tracing on caused my program to crash. The 2.6
version
seemed to work, but only because turning off tracing as a turtle
attribute
works in 2.6.

So I turned it back on and it crashed too.

2.5 worked okay.

The reason is that code in turtle.py was chabged from

v2.5
        if self._drawing:
            if self._tracing:
                dx = float(x1 - x0)
                dy = float(y1 - y0)
                distance = hypot(dx, dy)
                nhops = int(distance)

to

v3.1
       if self._speed and screen._tracing == 1:
            diff = (end-start)
            diffsq = (diff[0]*screen.xscale)**2 + (diff[1]
*screen.yscale)**2
            nhops = 1+int((diffsq**0.5)/(3*(1.1**self._speed)
*self._speed))

Unfortunately, that calculation of nhops is illegal if diffsq is
an .mpf (gmpy
floating point). Otherwise, you get

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "K:\user_python26\turtle\turtle_xy_Py3.py", line 95, in

    tooter.goto(the_coord)
  File "C:\Python31\lib\turtle.py", line 1771, in goto
    self._goto(Vec2D(*x))
  File "C:\Python31\lib\turtle.py", line 3165, in _goto
    nhops = 1+int((diffsq**0.5)/(3*(1.1**self._speed)*self._speed))
ValueError: mpq.pow fractional exponent, inexact-root

So when using gmpy, you have to convert the .mpz to int before calling
turtle
functions. (if tracing is on).

demo code (fixed code commented out)

import gmpy

##   (even) hi----|
##                |
##                lo (odd)
## or
##
##   (even) lo
##           |
##           |
##           ----hi (odd)
##
##
##
##

import turtle

tooter = turtle.Turtle()

tooter.hideturtle()
tooter.speed('fast')
turtle.update()
# make tracer false and it works
#tooter.screen.tracer(False) # tracer now a screen attribute
tooter.penup()
tooter.color('black')

s = ['1','0']
while len(s[0])<10000:
    s = [''.join(s), s[0]]


origin = [0,0]
if s[0] == '0':
  tooter.goto(origin)
  tooter.dot(1)
if s[1] == '0':
  tooter.goto([1,0])
  tooter.dot(1)

print(len(s[0]))

for i,j in enumerate(s[0]):
  the_coord=[]
  cur_root = gmpy.sqrt(i)
  lo__root = gmpy.sqrt(i)**2
  hi__root = ((gmpy.sqrt(i)+1)**2)
##  cur_root = int(gmpy.sqrt(i))
##  lo__root = int(gmpy.sqrt(i)**2)
##  hi__root = int(((gmpy.sqrt(i)+1)**2))

  if hi__root%2==0:
    side = 'northeast'
  else:
    side = 'southwest'

  elbow = (hi__root - lo__root)//2 + lo__root + 1

  if i>= elbow:

    side_len = i - elbow
    elbow_plus = True
  else:
    side_len = elbow - i
    elbow_plus = False

  if side == 'northeast':
    elbow_offset = [(gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)//2 +1,-((gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)//
2) +1]
  else:
    elbow_offset = [-((gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)//2 +1),((gmpy.sqrt
(elbow)-1)//2 +1)]
##  if side == 'northeast':
##    elbow_offset = [int((gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)//2 +1),-int(((gmpy.sqrt
(elbow)-1)//2) +1)]
##  else:
##    elbow_offset = [-int(((gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)//2 +1)),int
(((gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)//2 +1))]

  elbow_coord = [origin[0]+elbow_offset[0],origin[1]+elbow_offset[1]]

  if i != hi__root and i != lo__root:
    if i == elbow:
      the_coord = elbow_coord
    else:
      if elbow_plus:
        if side == 'northeast':
          the_coord = [elbow_coord[0]-side_len,elbow_coord[1]]
        else:
          the_coord = [elbow_coord[0]+side_len,elbow_coord[1]]
      else:
        if side == 'northeast':
          the_coord = [elbow_coord[0],elbow_coord[1]+side_len]
        else:
          the_coord = [elbow_coord[0],elbow_coord[1]-side_len]
  else:
    if i % 2 == 0:  # even square
      n = gmpy.sqrt(i)//2 - 1
##      n = int(gmpy.sqrt(i)//2) - 1
      the_coord = [-n, -n-1]
    else:
      n = (gmpy.sqrt(i)-1)//2 - 1
##      n = int((gmpy.sqrt(i)-1)//2) - 1
      the_coord = [1+n, 1+n]
  if j == '0':
    tooter.goto(the_coord)
    tooter.dot(2)
print('done')

turtle.update()
turtle.done()
print('done')


From pfeldman at verizon.net  Wed Aug  5 02:28:29 2009
From: pfeldman at verizon.net (Dr. Phillip M. Feldman)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 23:28:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: trouble with complex numbers
Message-ID: <24821423.post@talk.nabble.com>


When I try to compute the phase of a complex number, I get an error message:

In [3]: from cmath import *
In [4]: x=1+1J
In [5]: phase(x)

NameError: name 'phase' is not defined

AttributeError: 'complex' object has no attribute 'phase'

Any advice will be appreciated.
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/trouble-with-complex-numbers-tp24821423p24821423.html
Sent from the Python - python-list mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From ryniek90 at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 02:50:08 2009
From: ryniek90 at gmail.com (ryniek)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 23:50:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to write replace string for object which will be substituted?
	[regexp]
References:  
	<4A78B425.2010604@gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <581a0c92-3117-4712-bfac-a3b9c4f6eb97@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

On 5 Sie, 00:55, MRAB  wrote:
> ryniek90 wrote:
> > Hi.
> > I started learning regexp, and some things goes well, but most of them
> > still not.
>
> > I've got problem with some regexp. Better post code here:
>
> > "
> > ?>>> import re
> > ?>>> mail = '\nn... at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$]
> > mail [$dot$] com\n'
> > ?>>> mail
> > '\nn... at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] mail [$dot$]
> > com\n'
> > ?>>> print mail
>
> > n... at mail.com
> > name1 [at] mail [dot] com
> > name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com
>
> > ?>>> maail = re.sub('^\n|$\n', '', mail)
> > ?>>> print maail
> > n... at mail.com
> > name1 [at] mail [dot] com
> > name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com
> > ?>>> maail = re.sub(' ', '', maail)
> > ?>>> print maail
> > n... at mail.com
> > name1[at]mail[dot]com
> > name2[$at$]mail[$dot$]com
> > ?>>> maail = re.sub('\[at\]|\[\$at\$\]', '@', maail)
> > ?>>> print maail
> > n... at mail.com
> > name1 at mail[dot]com
> > name2 at mail[$dot$]com
> > ?>>> maail = re.sub('\[dot\]|\[\$dot\$\]', '.', maail)
> > ?>>> print maail
> > n... at mail.com
> > na... at mail.com
> > na... at mail.com
> > ?>>> #How must i write the replace string to replace all this regexp's
> > with just ONE command, in string 'mail' ?
> > ?>>> maail = re.sub('^\n|$\n| |\[at\]|\[\$at\$\]|\[dot\]|\[\$dot\$\]',
> > *?*, mail)
> > "
>
> > How must i write that replace pattern (look at question mark), to maek
> > that substituion work? I didn't saw anything helpful while reading Re
> > doc and HowTo (from Python Doc). I tried with 'MatchObject.group()' but
> > something gone wrong - didn't wrote it right.
> > Is there more user friendly HowTo for Python Re, than this?
>
> > I'm new to programming an regexp, sorry for inconvenience.
>
> I don't think you can do it in one regex, nor would I want to. Just use
> the string's replace() method.
>
> ?>>> mail = '\nn... at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$]
> mail [$dot$] com\n'
> ?>>> mail
> '\nn... at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] mail [$dot$]
> com\n'
> ?>>> print mail
>
> n... at mail.com
> name1 [at] mail [dot] com
> name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com
>
> ?>>> maail = mail.strip()
> n... at mail.com
> name1 [at] mail [dot] com
> name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com
>
> ?>>> maail = maail.replace(' ', '')
> ?>>> print maail
> n... at mail.com
> name1[at]mail[dot]com
> name2[$at$]mail[$dot$]com
> ?>>> maail = maail.replace('[at]', '@').replace('[$at$]', '@')
> ?>>> print maail
> n... at mail.com
> name1 at mail[dot]com
> name2 at mail[$dot$]com
> ?>>> maail = maail.replace('[dot]', '.').replace('[$dot$]', '.')
> ?>>> print maail
> n... at mail.com
> na... at mail.com
> na... at mail.com

Too bad, I thought that the almighty re module could do anything, but
it failed with this (or maybe re can do what i want, but only few
people knows how to force him to that?  :P).
But with help of MRAB, i choose The 3rd Point of Python's Zen -
"Simple is better than complex."

"
>>> mail = '\nname at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com\n'
>>> mail
'\nname at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] mail [$dot$]
com\n'
>>> print mail

name at mail.com
name1 [at] mail [dot] com
name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com

>>> maail = mail.lstrip().rstrip().replace(' ', '').replace('[dot]', '.').replace('[$dot$]', '.').replace('[at]', '@').replace('[$at$]', '@')
>>> print maail
name at mail.com
name1 at mail.com
name2 at mail.com
>>> #Did it  :)
"

Thanks again   :)


From ryniek90 at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 02:53:56 2009
From: ryniek90 at gmail.com (ryniek)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 23:53:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to write replace string for object which will be substituted?
	[regexp]
References:  
	<4A78B425.2010604@gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <45b7bc73-9c60-4da5-beda-1c2536add738@c1g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On 5 Sie, 00:55, MRAB  wrote:
> ryniek90 wrote:
> > Hi.
> > I started learning regexp, and some things goes well, but most of them
> > still not.
>
> > I've got problem with some regexp. Better post code here:
>
> > "
> > ?>>> import re
> > ?>>> mail = '\nn... at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$]
> > mail [$dot$] com\n'
> > ?>>> mail
> > '\nn... at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] mail [$dot$]
> > com\n'
> > ?>>> print mail
>
> > n... at mail.com
> > name1 [at] mail [dot] com
> > name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com
>
> > ?>>> maail = re.sub('^\n|$\n', '', mail)
> > ?>>> print maail
> > n... at mail.com
> > name1 [at] mail [dot] com
> > name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com
> > ?>>> maail = re.sub(' ', '', maail)
> > ?>>> print maail
> > n... at mail.com
> > name1[at]mail[dot]com
> > name2[$at$]mail[$dot$]com
> > ?>>> maail = re.sub('\[at\]|\[\$at\$\]', '@', maail)
> > ?>>> print maail
> > n... at mail.com
> > name1 at mail[dot]com
> > name2 at mail[$dot$]com
> > ?>>> maail = re.sub('\[dot\]|\[\$dot\$\]', '.', maail)
> > ?>>> print maail
> > n... at mail.com
> > na... at mail.com
> > na... at mail.com
> > ?>>> #How must i write the replace string to replace all this regexp's
> > with just ONE command, in string 'mail' ?
> > ?>>> maail = re.sub('^\n|$\n| |\[at\]|\[\$at\$\]|\[dot\]|\[\$dot\$\]',
> > *?*, mail)
> > "
>
> > How must i write that replace pattern (look at question mark), to maek
> > that substituion work? I didn't saw anything helpful while reading Re
> > doc and HowTo (from Python Doc). I tried with 'MatchObject.group()' but
> > something gone wrong - didn't wrote it right.
> > Is there more user friendly HowTo for Python Re, than this?
>
> > I'm new to programming an regexp, sorry for inconvenience.
>
> I don't think you can do it in one regex, nor would I want to. Just use
> the string's replace() method.
>
> ?>>> mail = '\nn... at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$]
> mail [$dot$] com\n'
> ?>>> mail
> '\nn... at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] mail [$dot$]
> com\n'
> ?>>> print mail
>
> n... at mail.com
> name1 [at] mail [dot] com
> name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com
>
> ?>>> maail = mail.strip()
> n... at mail.com
> name1 [at] mail [dot] com
> name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com
>
> ?>>> maail = maail.replace(' ', '')
> ?>>> print maail
> n... at mail.com
> name1[at]mail[dot]com
> name2[$at$]mail[$dot$]com
> ?>>> maail = maail.replace('[at]', '@').replace('[$at$]', '@')
> ?>>> print maail
> n... at mail.com
> name1 at mail[dot]com
> name2 at mail[$dot$]com
> ?>>> maail = maail.replace('[dot]', '.').replace('[$dot$]', '.')
> ?>>> print maail
> n... at mail.com
> na... at mail.com
> na... at mail.com

Too bad, I thought that the almighty re module could do anything, but
it failed with this (or maybe re can do what i want, but only few
people knows how to force him to that?  :P).
But with help of MRAB, i choose The 3rd Point of Python's Zen -
"Simple is better than complex."

"
>>> mail = '\nn... at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com\n'
>>> mail

'\nn... at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] mail [$dot$]
com\n'

>>> print mail

n... at mail.com
name1 [at] mail [dot] com
name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com

>>> maail = mail.lstrip().rstrip().replace(' ', '').replace('[dot]', '.').replace('[$dot$]', '.').replace('[at]', '@').replace('[$at$]', '@')
>>> print maail
n... at mail.com
na... at mail.com
na... at mail.com
>>> #Did it  :)

"

Thanks again   :)


From casevh at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 02:54:12 2009
From: casevh at gmail.com (casevh)
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 23:54:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Turtle Graphics are incompatible with gmpy
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 4, 10:49?pm, Mensanator  wrote:
> I hadn't noticed this before, but the overhaul of Turtle Graphics
> dating
> back to 2.6 has been broken as far as gmpy is concerned.
> The reason is that code in turtle.py was chabged from
>
> v2.5
> ? ? ? ? if self._drawing:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? if self._tracing:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? dx = float(x1 - x0)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? dy = float(y1 - y0)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? distance = hypot(dx, dy)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? nhops = int(distance)
>
> to
>
> v3.1
> ? ? ? ?if self._speed and screen._tracing == 1:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? diff = (end-start)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? diffsq = (diff[0]*screen.xscale)**2 + (diff[1]
> *screen.yscale)**2
> ? ? ? ? ? ? nhops = 1+int((diffsq**0.5)/(3*(1.1**self._speed)
> *self._speed))
>
> Unfortunately, that calculation of nhops is illegal if diffsq is
> an .mpf (gmpy
> floating point). Otherwise, you get
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? File "K:\user_python26\turtle\turtle_xy_Py3.py", line 95, in
> 
> ? ? tooter.goto(the_coord)
> ? File "C:\Python31\lib\turtle.py", line 1771, in goto
> ? ? self._goto(Vec2D(*x))
> ? File "C:\Python31\lib\turtle.py", line 3165, in _goto
> ? ? nhops = 1+int((diffsq**0.5)/(3*(1.1**self._speed)*self._speed))
> ValueError: mpq.pow fractional exponent, inexact-root
>
Warning: Completely untested fix ahead!

What happens if you change turtle.py to use

nhops=1+int((math.sqrt(diffsq)/(3*math.pow(1.1, self._speed)
*self._speed))

casevh


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Wed Aug  5 03:19:52 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 17:19:52 +1000
Subject: Turtle Graphics are incompatible with gmpy
References: 
Message-ID: <0002b5d3$0$2970$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 5 Aug 2009 03:49 pm Mensanator wrote:

> In 3.1, tracing is now a screen attribute, not a turtle atribute.
> I have no idea why
> 
>   tooter = turtle.Turtle()
>   tooter.tracer(False)
> 
> doesn't give me an error (I thought silent errors were a bad thing).

What makes it an error? Do you consider the following an error?

>>> class Test:
...     pass
...
>>> t = Test()
>>> t.tracer = 5
>>>

Perhaps you mean, it's an API change you didn't know about, and you wish to
protest that Turtle Graphics made an incompatible API change without
telling you?


> Naturally, having tracing on caused my program to crash. 

It seg faulted or raised an exception?


[...] 
> Unfortunately, that calculation of nhops is illegal if diffsq is
> an .mpf (gmpy floating point). Otherwise, you get

How does diffsq get to be a mpf? Are gmpy floats supposed to be supported?



-- 
Steven


From gregor.lingl at aon.at  Wed Aug  5 03:21:44 2009
From: gregor.lingl at aon.at (Gregor Lingl)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 09:21:44 +0200
Subject: Turtle Graphics are incompatible with gmpy
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4a793315$0$2305$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>

Mensanator schrieb:
> I hadn't noticed this before, but the overhaul of Turtle Graphics
> dating
> back to 2.6 has been broken as far as gmpy is concerned.
> 
> I hadn't noticed because I usually have tracing turned off (tracing
> off
> takes 3-4 seconds, tracing on takes 6-7 minutes).
> 
> In 3.1, tracing is now a screen attribute, not a turtle atribute.
> I have no idea why
> 
>   tooter = turtle.Turtle()
>   tooter.tracer(False)
> 
> doesn't give me an error (I thought silent errors were a bad thing).
> 

Hi,

on my machine I get:

Python 3.1 (r31:73574, Jun 26 2009, 20:21:35) [MSC v.1500 32 bit 
(Intel)] on win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license()" for more information.
 >>> import turtle
 >>> tooter = turtle.Turtle()
 >>> tooter.tracer(False)
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "", line 1, in 
     tooter.tracer(False)
AttributeError: 'Turtle' object has no attribute 'tracer'
 >>>

I'd like to help with your problem but I'd much better be
able to analyze it, if I had a version of your script,
which works as you intended with Python 2.5 and the old
turtle module. Could you please post it?

(The one you posted below uses some commands of the
turtle 2.6 module which are not present in 2.5, so it
doesn't run with Python 2.5)

Regards,
Gregor


> Had to change to
> 
>   tooter = turtle.Turtle()
>   tooter.screen.tracer(False) # tracer now a screen attribute
> 
> to turn tracing off in 3.1.
> 
> Naturally, having tracing on caused my program to crash. The 2.6
> version
> seemed to work, but only because turning off tracing as a turtle
> attribute
> works in 2.6.
> 
> So I turned it back on and it crashed too.
> 
> 2.5 worked okay.
> 
> The reason is that code in turtle.py was chabged from
> 
> v2.5
>         if self._drawing:
>             if self._tracing:
>                 dx = float(x1 - x0)
>                 dy = float(y1 - y0)
>                 distance = hypot(dx, dy)
>                 nhops = int(distance)
> 
> to
> 
> v3.1
>        if self._speed and screen._tracing == 1:
>             diff = (end-start)
>             diffsq = (diff[0]*screen.xscale)**2 + (diff[1]
> *screen.yscale)**2
>             nhops = 1+int((diffsq**0.5)/(3*(1.1**self._speed)
> *self._speed))
> 
> Unfortunately, that calculation of nhops is illegal if diffsq is
> an .mpf (gmpy
> floating point). Otherwise, you get
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "K:\user_python26\turtle\turtle_xy_Py3.py", line 95, in
> 
>     tooter.goto(the_coord)
>   File "C:\Python31\lib\turtle.py", line 1771, in goto
>     self._goto(Vec2D(*x))
>   File "C:\Python31\lib\turtle.py", line 3165, in _goto
>     nhops = 1+int((diffsq**0.5)/(3*(1.1**self._speed)*self._speed))
> ValueError: mpq.pow fractional exponent, inexact-root
> 
> So when using gmpy, you have to convert the .mpz to int before calling
> turtle
> functions. (if tracing is on).
> 
> demo code (fixed code commented out)
> 
> import gmpy
> 
> ##   (even) hi----|
> ##                |
> ##                lo (odd)
> ## or
> ##
> ##   (even) lo
> ##           |
> ##           |
> ##           ----hi (odd)
> ##
> ##
> ##
> ##
> 
> import turtle
> 
> tooter = turtle.Turtle()
> 
> tooter.hideturtle()
> tooter.speed('fast')
> turtle.update()
> # make tracer false and it works
> #tooter.screen.tracer(False) # tracer now a screen attribute
> tooter.penup()
> tooter.color('black')
> 
> s = ['1','0']
> while len(s[0])<10000:
>     s = [''.join(s), s[0]]
> 
> 
> origin = [0,0]
> if s[0] == '0':
>   tooter.goto(origin)
>   tooter.dot(1)
> if s[1] == '0':
>   tooter.goto([1,0])
>   tooter.dot(1)
> 
> print(len(s[0]))
> 
> for i,j in enumerate(s[0]):
>   the_coord=[]
>   cur_root = gmpy.sqrt(i)
>   lo__root = gmpy.sqrt(i)**2
>   hi__root = ((gmpy.sqrt(i)+1)**2)
> ##  cur_root = int(gmpy.sqrt(i))
> ##  lo__root = int(gmpy.sqrt(i)**2)
> ##  hi__root = int(((gmpy.sqrt(i)+1)**2))
> 
>   if hi__root%2==0:
>     side = 'northeast'
>   else:
>     side = 'southwest'
> 
>   elbow = (hi__root - lo__root)//2 + lo__root + 1
> 
>   if i>= elbow:
> 
>     side_len = i - elbow
>     elbow_plus = True
>   else:
>     side_len = elbow - i
>     elbow_plus = False
> 
>   if side == 'northeast':
>     elbow_offset = [(gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)//2 +1,-((gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)//
> 2) +1]
>   else:
>     elbow_offset = [-((gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)//2 +1),((gmpy.sqrt
> (elbow)-1)//2 +1)]
> ##  if side == 'northeast':
> ##    elbow_offset = [int((gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)//2 +1),-int(((gmpy.sqrt
> (elbow)-1)//2) +1)]
> ##  else:
> ##    elbow_offset = [-int(((gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)//2 +1)),int
> (((gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)//2 +1))]
> 
>   elbow_coord = [origin[0]+elbow_offset[0],origin[1]+elbow_offset[1]]
> 
>   if i != hi__root and i != lo__root:
>     if i == elbow:
>       the_coord = elbow_coord
>     else:
>       if elbow_plus:
>         if side == 'northeast':
>           the_coord = [elbow_coord[0]-side_len,elbow_coord[1]]
>         else:
>           the_coord = [elbow_coord[0]+side_len,elbow_coord[1]]
>       else:
>         if side == 'northeast':
>           the_coord = [elbow_coord[0],elbow_coord[1]+side_len]
>         else:
>           the_coord = [elbow_coord[0],elbow_coord[1]-side_len]
>   else:
>     if i % 2 == 0:  # even square
>       n = gmpy.sqrt(i)//2 - 1
> ##      n = int(gmpy.sqrt(i)//2) - 1
>       the_coord = [-n, -n-1]
>     else:
>       n = (gmpy.sqrt(i)-1)//2 - 1
> ##      n = int((gmpy.sqrt(i)-1)//2) - 1
>       the_coord = [1+n, 1+n]
>   if j == '0':
>     tooter.goto(the_coord)
>     tooter.dot(2)
> print('done')
> 
> turtle.update()
> turtle.done()
> print('done')


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Wed Aug  5 03:23:29 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 17:23:29 +1000
Subject: The Perils of PyContract (and Generators)
References: 
Message-ID: <0002b6ac$0$2970$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 5 Aug 2009 03:06 pm Nick Daly wrote:

> The problem actually lies in the contract.  Generally, the PyContract
> shouldn't affect the return values or in any way modify the code, which
> it doesn't, as long as the function returns a list values (the way the
> code had in fact originally been written).  However, the contract
> mentioned above is actually quite wrong for a generator.

Yes, because you are conflating the items yielded from the generator with
the generator object returned from the generator function "find_files". You
can't look inside the generator object without using up whichever items you
look at.

[...]
> Correcting the above example involves doing nothing more than
> simplifying the contract:
> 
>     post:
>         name in __return__

That can't be right, not unless PyContract is doing something I don't
expect. I expect that would be equivalent of:

'fish' in 

which should fail:

>>> __return__ = find_files('fish')  # a generator object
>>> 'fish' in __return__
False
>>>
>>> __return__ = find_files('fish')
>>> __return__ = list(__return__)
>>> 'fish' in __return__
False
>>> __return__
['one fish', 'two fish', 'red fish', 'blue fish']

Of course, I may be mistaking what PyContract is doing.



-- 
Steven


From rays at blue-cove.com  Wed Aug  5 03:25:03 2009
From: rays at blue-cove.com (RayS)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 00:25:03 -0700
Subject: Cypress FX2 - py libusb code?
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20090804224315.01c22b60@pop-server.san.rr.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

From gregor.lingl at aon.at  Wed Aug  5 03:37:08 2009
From: gregor.lingl at aon.at (Gregor Lingl)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 09:37:08 +0200
Subject: Turtle Graphics are incompatible with gmpy
In-Reply-To: <0002b5d3$0$2970$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 
	<0002b5d3$0$2970$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4a7936a4$0$1552$91cee783@newsreader03.highway.telekom.at>

Steven D'Aprano schrieb:
> On Wed, 5 Aug 2009 03:49 pm Mensanator wrote:
> 
>> In 3.1, tracing is now a screen attribute, not a turtle atribute.
>> I have no idea why
>>
>>   tooter = turtle.Turtle()
>>   tooter.tracer(False)
>>
>> doesn't give me an error (I thought silent errors were a bad thing).
> 
> What makes it an error? Do you consider the following an error?
> 
>>>> class Test:
> ...     pass
> ...
>>>> t = Test()
>>>> t.tracer = 5
>>>>
> 
> Perhaps you mean, it's an API change you didn't know about, and you wish to
> protest that Turtle Graphics made an incompatible API change without
> telling you?
> 

It didn't form 2.5 to 2.6 (at least not intentionally). But with the 
indroduction of the TurtleScreen class and the Screen class/object 
(singleton) a few of the turtle methods were also implemented as screen 
methods and as turtle methods declared deprecated (see docs of Python 
2.6). These deprecated turtle methods do not occur as turtle methods any 
more in Python 3.x.

Among them is the tracer method, which in fact does not control single 
turtle objects but all the turtles on a given screen.

So there is an icompatibility beween 2.6 and 3.x

But as far as I have understood, this doesn't concern the problem 
reported by mensator.

Regards,
Gregor


> 
>> Naturally, having tracing on caused my program to crash. 
> 
> It seg faulted or raised an exception?
> 
> 
> [...] 
>> Unfortunately, that calculation of nhops is illegal if diffsq is
>> an .mpf (gmpy floating point). Otherwise, you get
> 
> How does diffsq get to be a mpf? Are gmpy floats supposed to be supported?
> 
> 
> 


From news123 at free.fr  Wed Aug  5 03:44:18 2009
From: news123 at free.fr (News123)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 09:44:18 +0200
Subject: merge two png pic
In-Reply-To: <72d7aad1-1fb7-4b32-a87f-636505b0faa2@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	
	<006617e3-6630-4f04-bff1-99c58dbb6cb5@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<4a77e249$0$2449$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<72d7aad1-1fb7-4b32-a87f-636505b0faa2@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a793852$0$19598$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

You didn't really tell us why you need one big file, which contains more
pixel, than you can probably store in RAM

Is it for printing?
Not knwoing your goal makes it difficult to suggest solutions.


Can't you use other image formats like raw RGB or
What other image formats are supported?
tiff? Raw? PPM ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portable_pixmap )?

concatenating raw/ppm files with the same width would be really trivial.

so you could use python to create horizontal raw/ppm stripes.

then you could concatenate them without having to have the whole image
in RAM.


Perhaps there's even converters from ppm to png, that don't need the
whole image in RAM.



cocobear wrote:
> On Aug 4, 3:24 pm, News123  wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> cocobear wrote:
>>>>>>> Map = Image.new("RGB", (x,y))
>>>>>>> Map.paste(im, box)
>>>>>>> Map.paste(im1,box)
>>>>>>> Map = Map.convert("L", optimize=True, palette=Image.ADAPTIVE)
>>>>>>> But if thetwopngpicis too big , or if I have tomergemorepic
>>>>>>> together, I will get MemoryError:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Image.new("RGB",(44544,38656))
>>>> What do you want to do with such a big image? You will run into the same
>>>> limitation when you are trying to display it.
>>> I want to download a map from google map with high precision
>> For me it sounds strange to handle such big files.
>>
>> Is the map you download from Google really that big?
>> Mostly Google maps uses normally tiles of sizes 256x256 pixel, wich you
>> have to compose to get the  big image.
>>
> 
> The map I downloaded from Google is small(256x256). These small maps
> will compose a big image.
> 
> 
> 
>> If your problem is to combine tiles with different palettes, then you
>> should pobably look at a way to  'unify' the palette of all tiles befor
>> combining them.
>>
> 
> I think it is impossible to 'unify' all this tiles.
> 
> 
>> Being no expert of PIL I don't know whether this is easily possible though?
>>
>> bye
>>
>> N
> 


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Wed Aug  5 03:56:33 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 09:56:33 +0200
Subject: Using Python to automate builds
In-Reply-To: <84d9ae10-3aee-40a8-97ac-05799da0de64@f18g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
References: <84d9ae10-3aee-40a8-97ac-05799da0de64@f18g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <200908050956.33995.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Tuesday 04 August 2009 21:13:10 Kosta wrote:
> I am a Python newbie, tasked with automating (researching) building
> Windows drivers using the WDK build environment.  I've been looking
> into Python for this (instead of writing a bunch of batch files).
>
Why do you not use make and a makefile - it was designed to 
do exactly this.

- Hendrik


From fafounet at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 04:08:14 2009
From: fafounet at gmail.com (Fafounet)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 01:08:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Special chars with HTMLParser
Message-ID: <5c6941f8-c53e-4518-8ce5-83be64689307@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I am parsing a web page with special chars such as é (which
stands for ?).
I know I can have the unicode character ? from unicode
("\xe9","iso-8859-1")
but with those extra characters I don' t know.

I tried to implement handle_charref within HTMLParser without success.
Furthermore, if I have the data abécd, handle_data will get "ab",
handle_charref will get xe9 and then handle_data doesn't have the end
of the string ("cd").

Thank you for your help,
Fabien


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Wed Aug  5 04:40:59 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 01:40:59 -0700
Subject: trouble with complex numbers
In-Reply-To: <24821423.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <24821423.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908050140g3acd8a8cx9fc87af12ea77c31@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 11:28 PM, Dr. Phillip M.
Feldman wrote:
>
> When I try to compute the phase of a complex number, I get an error message:
>
> In [3]: from cmath import *
> In [4]: x=1+1J
> In [5]: phase(x)
> 
> NameError: name 'phase' is not defined
> 
> AttributeError: 'complex' object has no attribute 'phase'

I suspect the problem lies in what you snipped away:
In [1]: from cmath import phase

In [2]: x=1+1J

In [3]: phase(x)
Out[3]: 0.78539816339744828

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 04:43:13 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 01:43:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: trouble with complex numbers
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 5, 4:28?pm, "Dr. Phillip M. Feldman" 
wrote:
> When I try to compute the phase of a complex number, I get an error message:
> [...]
> Any advice will be appreciated.

1. What version of Python are you using, and on what platform?

2. What you snipped is necessary to help debug your problem.

3. Do you have a cmath.py in the folder you're running the interpreter
in?



From sanu1267 at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 05:03:51 2009
From: sanu1267 at gmail.com (sanju ps)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 14:33:51 +0530
Subject: Launch my application if its not running
Message-ID: <2b76be80908050203o5d002a8draf4c8bed564eef2b@mail.gmail.com>

How to check whether my gui application is running or not.If its already
running i have to quit my program other wise i need to launch my program.
Can anybody suggest a solution to this

Regards
Sanju
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From clp2 at rebertia.com  Wed Aug  5 05:07:14 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 02:07:14 -0700
Subject: Launch my application if its not running
In-Reply-To: <2b76be80908050203o5d002a8draf4c8bed564eef2b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2b76be80908050203o5d002a8draf4c8bed564eef2b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908050207h7f2a866fuf63e843a66a7030d@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 2:03 AM, sanju ps wrote:
> How to check whether my gui application is running or not.If its already
> running i have to quit my program other wise i need to launch my program.
> Can anybody suggest a solution to this

Use a lock file? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lock_file#Lock_files

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From smpoojary at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 05:11:38 2009
From: smpoojary at gmail.com (Mahesh Poojary S)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 02:11:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: socket.inet_ntop, and pton question
In-Reply-To: <12rpns1tkp0e34@corp.supernews.com>
References: <12rpns1tkp0e34@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <24823395.post@talk.nabble.com>




Martin-298 wrote:
> 
> Hi
> 
> Are these functions (inet_ntop(), inet_pton()) from the socket library 
> supported on Windows.
> 
> If not is there an equivalent for them using Windows
> 
> Ive seen mention of people creating their own in order to use them
> 
> Appreciate the help
> 
> ty
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
> 

You can use the below code:
def inet_ntop(address_family, packed_ip):
  if address_family != AF_INET:
    raise socket.error, (97, 'Address family not supported by protocol')
  lIP = []
  for ch in packed_ip:
     lIP.append(str(ord(ch)))
  strIP = string.join(lIP,'.')
  return strIP

def inet_pton(address_family, ip_string):
  if address_family != AF_INET:
    raise socket.error, (97, 'Address family not supported by protocol')
  lIP = ip_string.split('.')
  strHexIP = ""
  for i in lIP:
    if i == '':
      continue
    strHex = "%x" % int(i)
    strHex = strHex.zfill(2)
    strHexIP += "\\x"+strHex
  return strHexIP

-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/socket.inet_ntop%2C-and-pton-question-tp8677935p24823395.html
Sent from the Python - python-list mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From lists at cheimes.de  Wed Aug  5 05:21:18 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 11:21:18 +0200
Subject: trouble with complex numbers
In-Reply-To: <24821423.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <24821423.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: 

Dr. Phillip M. Feldman wrote:
> When I try to compute the phase of a complex number, I get an error message:
> 
> In [3]: from cmath import *
> In [4]: x=1+1J
> In [5]: phase(x)
> 
> NameError: name 'phase' is not defined
> 
> AttributeError: 'complex' object has no attribute 'phase'
> 
> Any advice will be appreciated.

phase() has been added to Python 2.6 and 3.0. It's not available in 
Python 2.5 and earlier. If you'd used cmath.phase() instead of the ugly 
"from cmath import *" statement you'd have seen the correct error message.

You can write your own phase() function. This function is mostly correct 
unless either the real and/or the imag part is NaN or INF.

from math import atan2

def phase(z):
     z += 1j # convert int, long, float to complex
     return atan2(z.imag, z.real)



From Tribulations at Paralleles.invalid  Wed Aug  5 06:13:00 2009
From: Tribulations at Paralleles.invalid (TP)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 12:13:00 +0200
Subject: intricated functions: how to share a variable
Message-ID: 

Hi everybody,

See the following example:

#########
def tutu():

    def toto():

        print a
        a = 4
        print a

    a=2
    toto()

tutu()
##########

I obtain the following error:
"UnboundLocalError: local variable 'a' referenced before assignment"

This is because Python looks in the local context before looking in the
global context.

The use of "global a" in toto() does not help because global allows to force
Python to look for the variable at the module level.

So, how to share a variable between intricated functions?

Thanks a lot

Julien
-- 
python -c "print ''.join([chr(154 - ord(c)) for c in '*9(9&(18%.\
9&1+,\'Z4(55l4('])"

"When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is
possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is
impossible, he is very probably wrong." (first law of AC Clarke)


From albert at spenarnc.xs4all.nl  Wed Aug  5 06:35:18 2009
From: albert at spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst)
Date: 05 Aug 2009 10:35:18 GMT
Subject: Overlap in python
References: 
Message-ID: 

In article ,
Jay Bird   wrote:
>Hi everyone,
>
>I've been trying to figure out a simple algorithm on how to combine a
>list of parts that have 1D locations that overlap into a non-
>overlapping list.  For example, here would be my input:
>
>part name   location
>a                  5-9
>b                  7-10
>c                  3-6
>d                  15-20
>e                  18-23
>
>And here is what I need for an output:
>part name   location
>c.a.b            3-10
>d.e               15-23
>
>I've tried various methods, which all fail.  Does anyone have an idea
>how to do this?

That is an algorithmic question and has little to do with Python.
You could proceed as follows:
-  Order your data by the lower limit
-  Combine everything with the same lower limit.
-  Then combine every pair of consecutive entries that overlap.

(In you case the second step is not needed.)

>
>Thank you very much!
>Jay


--
-- 
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
albert at spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst



From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Aug  5 06:39:54 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 12:39:54 +0200
Subject: intricated functions: how to share a variable
References: 
Message-ID: <7dt5rqF2crv46U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

TP wrote:

> Hi everybody,
> 
> See the following example:
> 
> #########
> def tutu():
> 
>     def toto():
> 
>         print a
>         a = 4
>         print a
> 
>     a=2
>     toto()
> 
> tutu()
> ##########
> 
> I obtain the following error:
> "UnboundLocalError: local variable 'a' referenced before assignment"
> 
> This is because Python looks in the local context before looking in the
> global context.
> 
> The use of "global a" in toto() does not help because global allows to
> force Python to look for the variable at the module level.
> 
> So, how to share a variable between intricated functions?

You could use a class :)

Another often used trick is to have a mutable container-object, like this:

def tutu():
   a = [2]

   def toto():
       a[0] = 4
    
   toto()
   
Diez


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Wed Aug  5 06:42:23 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 03:42:23 -0700
Subject: intricated functions: how to share a variable
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908050342t5ae6feaauc757021a71521b2a@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 3:13 AM, TP wrote:
> Hi everybody,
>
> See the following example:
>
> #########
> def tutu():
>
> ? ?def toto():
>

    nonlocal a #note: this requires a rather recent version of python

> ? ? ? ?print a
> ? ? ? ?a = 4
> ? ? ? ?print a
>
> ? ?a=2
> ? ?toto()
>
> tutu()
> ##########
>
> I obtain the following error:
> "UnboundLocalError: local variable 'a' referenced before assignment"
>
> This is because Python looks in the local context before looking in the
> global context.
>
> The use of "global a" in toto() does not help because global allows to force
> Python to look for the variable at the module level.
>
> So, how to share a variable between intricated functions?

Details: http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3104/

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Wed Aug  5 06:42:58 2009
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (Bearophile)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 03:42:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Overlap in python
References: 
	
Message-ID: <4f5f1301-d160-4b61-926d-782277b064e9@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

Albert van der Horst:
>That is an algorithmic question and has little to do with Python.<

Yes, but comp.lang.python isn't comp.lang.c, that kind of questions
are perfectly fine here. They help keep this place from becoming
boring.

Bye,
bearophile


From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Aug  5 06:46:28 2009
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 12:46:28 +0200
Subject: intricated functions: how to share a variable
References: 
Message-ID: 

TP wrote:

> Hi everybody,
> 
> See the following example:
> 
> #########
> def tutu():
> 
>     def toto():
> 
>         print a
>         a = 4
>         print a
> 
>     a=2
>     toto()
> 
> tutu()
> ##########
> 
> I obtain the following error:
> "UnboundLocalError: local variable 'a' referenced before assignment"
> 
> This is because Python looks in the local context before looking in the
> global context.
> 
> The use of "global a" in toto() does not help because global allows to
> force Python to look for the variable at the module level.
> 
> So, how to share a variable between intricated functions?

This limitation is removed in Python 3 with the 'nonlocal' statement:

>>> def outer():
...     def inner():
...             nonlocal a
...             print(a)
...             a = 4
...             print(a)
...     a = 2
...     inner()
...     print(a)
...
>>> outer()
2
4
4

Peter



From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Wed Aug  5 06:47:19 2009
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (Bearophile)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 03:47:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: intricated functions: how to share a variable
References: 
Message-ID: <9a937d26-2375-4836-9824-d34d9f92d284@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

TP:
> def tutu():
>
> ? ? def toto():
>
> ? ? ? ? print a
> ? ? ? ? a = 4
> ? ? ? ? print a
>
> ? ? a=2
> ? ? toto()
>
> tutu()
> ##########
>
> I obtain the following error:
> "UnboundLocalError: local variable 'a' referenced before assignment"
>
> This is because Python looks in the local context before looking in the
> global context.
>
> The use of "global a" in toto() does not help because global allows to force
> Python to look for the variable at the module level.
>
> So, how to share a variable between intricated functions?

Generally your purpose as a programmer is to write the least intricate
code. Because the less tricky it is, the more readable it becomes and
also the bug count decreases.

So probably a better solution is to just use the normal function
semantics: you pass them an argument and you take an argument as
return value. Such return value will be the new version of the value
you talk about.

Python3+ has the "nonlocal" statement that may do what you ask for.
But as many other things in Python it must be used with judgment, to
avoid writing intricate code.

Bye,
bearophile


From marcusw at cox.net  Wed Aug  5 07:13:23 2009
From: marcusw at cox.net (Marcus Wanner)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 07:13:23 -0400
Subject: Overlap in python
In-Reply-To: <4A78B19D.4020306@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: 
	<4A78B19D.4020306@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: 

On 8/4/2009 6:09 PM, MRAB wrote:
>  >>> parts = [(5, 9, "a"), (7, 10, "b"), (3, 6, "c"), (15, 20, "d"), 
> (18, 23, "e")]
>  >>> parts.sort()
>  >>> parts
> [(3, 6, 'c'), (5, 9, 'a'), (7, 10, 'b'), (15, 20, 'd'), (18, 23, 'e')]
>  >>> # Merge overlapping intervals.
>  >>> pos = 1
>  >>> while pos < len(parts):
>         # Merge the pair in parts[pos - 1 : pos + 1] if they overlap.
>         p, q = parts[pos - 1 : pos + 1]
>         if p[1] >= q[0]:
>                 parts[pos - 1 : pos + 1] = [(p[0], max(p[1], q[1]), p[2] 
> + "." + q[2])]
>         else:
>                 # They don't overlap, so try the next pair.
>                 pos += 1
> 
> 
>  >>> parts
> [(3, 10, 'c.a.b'), (15, 23, 'd.e')]
> 
That's the best solution I've seen so far. It even has input/output 
formatted as close as is reasonably possible to the format specified.

As we would say in googlecode, +1.

Marcus



From marcusw at cox.net  Wed Aug  5 07:21:55 2009
From: marcusw at cox.net (Marcus Wanner)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 07:21:55 -0400
Subject: Using Python to automate builds
In-Reply-To: 
References: <84d9ae10-3aee-40a8-97ac-05799da0de64@f18g2000prf.googlegroups.com>		<48e9dcba-5309-4de6-b833-7abec18120e1@d9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On 8/4/2009 5:52 PM, Philip Semanchuk wrote:
> 
> On Aug 4, 2009, at 5:40 PM, Kosta wrote:
> 
>> On Aug 4, 2:34 pm, Dave Angel  wrote:
>>>
>>> + I have released pyKook 0.0.2.
>>> +http://pypi.python.org/pypi/Kook/0.0.2
>>> +http://www.kuwata-lab.com/kook/
>>> +http://www.kuwata-lab.com/kook/pykook-users-guide.html
>>>
>>> Other possibilities:
>>> +  http://pypi.python.org/pypi/vellum/      flexible small 'make'
>>> alternative
>>>
>>> +  http://code.google.com/p/waf/
>>>
>>> +  http://code.google.com/p/fabricate/
>>>
>>> DaveA- Hide quoted text -
>>>
>>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> Thanks Dave.  I had thought about those three options, and was
>> honestly hoping for a foruth (I know, some people are never
>> satisfied ;).  I'll look into pyKook.  Thank you for your help.
> 
> Poof! Your wish is granted!  =)
> 
> http://www.scons.org/
> 
> Dunno if you'll find it better, worse or different than the 
> alternatives, but there it is.
> 
> have fun
> P
> 
>  
I can highly recommend scons. At dolphin-emu, we use it to daily compile 
  a project containing over 500,000 lines of c/c++ code, which is 
modified very frequently. It works like a charm, and is seamlessly 
cross- platform (in my experience). However, it might not be exactly the 
thing you're looking for.

Marcus



From anthra.norell at bluewin.ch  Wed Aug  5 07:28:18 2009
From: anthra.norell at bluewin.ch (Anthra Norell)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 13:28:18 +0200
Subject: How to write replace string for object which will be substituted?
	[regexp]
In-Reply-To: <4A78BC68.2020601@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: 	<4A78B425.2010604@gmail.com>
	<4A78BC68.2020601@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <4A796CD2.7050009@bluewin.ch>

MRAB wrote:
> ryniek90 wrote:
>> Hi.
>> I started learning regexp, and some things goes well, but most of 
>> them still not.
>>
>> I've got problem with some regexp. Better post code here:
>>
>> "
>>  >>> import re
>>  >>> mail = '\nname at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] 
>> mail [$dot$] com\n'
>>  >>> mail
>> '\nname at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] mail 
>> [$dot$] com\n'
>>  >>> print mail
>>
>> name at mail.com
>> name1 [at] mail [dot] com
>> name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com
>>
>>  >>> maail = re.sub('^\n|$\n', '', mail)
>>  >>> print maail
>> name at mail.com
>> name1 [at] mail [dot] com
>> name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com
>>  >>> maail = re.sub(' ', '', maail)
>>  >>> print maail
>> name at mail.com
>> name1[at]mail[dot]com
>> name2[$at$]mail[$dot$]com
>>  >>> maail = re.sub('\[at\]|\[\$at\$\]', '@', maail)
>>  >>> print maail
>> name at mail.com
>> name1 at mail[dot]com
>> name2 at mail[$dot$]com
>>  >>> maail = re.sub('\[dot\]|\[\$dot\$\]', '.', maail)
>>  >>> print maail
>> name at mail.com
>> name1 at mail.com
>> name2 at mail.com
>>  >>> #How must i write the replace string to replace all this 
>> regexp's with just ONE command, in string 'mail' ?
>>  >>> maail = re.sub('^\n|$\n| 
>> |\[at\]|\[\$at\$\]|\[dot\]|\[\$dot\$\]', *?*, mail)
>> "
>>
>> How must i write that replace pattern (look at question mark), to 
>> maek that substituion work? I didn't saw anything helpful while 
>> reading Re doc and HowTo (from Python Doc). I tried with 
>> 'MatchObject.group()' but something gone wrong - didn't wrote it right.
>> Is there more user friendly HowTo for Python Re, than this?
>>
>> I'm new to programming an regexp, sorry for inconvenience.
>>
> I don't think you can do it in one regex, nor would I want to. Just use
> the string's replace() method.
>
> >>> mail = '\nname at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] 
> mail [$dot$] com\n'
> >>> mail
> '\nname at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] 
> com\n'
> >>> print mail
>
> name at mail.com
> name1 [at] mail [dot] com
> name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com
>
> >>> maail = mail.strip()
> name at mail.com
> name1 [at] mail [dot] com
> name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com
>
> >>> maail = maail.replace(' ', '')
> >>> print maail
> name at mail.com
> name1[at]mail[dot]com
> name2[$at$]mail[$dot$]com
> >>> maail = maail.replace('[at]', '@').replace('[$at$]', '@')
> >>> print maail
> name at mail.com
> name1 at mail[dot]com
> name2 at mail[$dot$]com
> >>> maail = maail.replace('[dot]', '.').replace('[$dot$]', '.')
> >>> print maail
> name at mail.com
> name1 at mail.com
> name2 at mail.com
This is a good learning exercise demonstrating the impracticality of 
regular expressions in a given situation. In the light of the 
fascination regular expressions seem to exert in general, one might 
conclude that knowing regular expressions in essence is knowing when not 
to use them.

There is nothing wrong with cascading substitutions through multiple 
expressions. The OP's solution wrapped up in a function and streamlined 
for needless regex overkill might look something like this:

def translate (s):
   s1 = s.strip ()     # Instead of: s1 = re.sub ('^\n|$\n', '', s)
   s2 = s1.replace (' ', '')    # Instead of: s2 = re.sub (' ', '', s1)
   s3 = re.sub ('\[at\]|\[\$at\$\]', '@', s2)
   s4 = re.sub ('\[dot\]|\[\$dot\$\]', '.', s3)
   return s4

print translate (mail)   # Tested

MRAB's solution using replace () avoids needless regex complexity, but 
doesn't simplify tedious coding if the number of substitutions is 
significant. Some time ago I proposed a little module I made to 
alleviate the tedium. It would handle this case like this:

import SE
Translator = SE.SE ( ' (32)= [at]=@ [$at$]=@ [dot]=. [$dot$]=. ' )
print Translator (mail.strip ())   # Tested

So SE.SE compiles a string composed of any number of substitution 
definitions into an object that translates anything given it. In a 
running speed contest it would surely come in last, although in most 
cases the disadvantage would be imperceptible. Another matter is coding 
speed. Here the advantage is obvious, even with a set of substitutions 
as small as this one, let alone with sets in the tens or even hundreds. 
One inconspicuous but significant feature of SE is that it handles 
precedence correctly if targets overlap (upstream over downstream and 
long over short). As far as I know there's nothing in the Python system 
handling substitution precedence. It always needs to be hand-coded from 
one case to the next and that isn't exactly trivial.

SE can be downloaded from http://pypi.python.org/pypi/SE/2.3.

Frederic






From joncle at googlemail.com  Wed Aug  5 07:40:05 2009
From: joncle at googlemail.com (Jon Clements)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 04:40:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to write replace string for object which will be substituted?
	[regexp]
References:  
	<4A78B425.2010604@gmail.com>
	 
	<45b7bc73-9c60-4da5-beda-1c2536add738@c1g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On 5 Aug, 07:53, ryniek  wrote:
> On 5 Sie, 00:55, MRAB  wrote:
>
>
>
> > ryniek90 wrote:
> > > Hi.
> > > I started learning regexp, and some things goes well, but most of them
> > > still not.
>
> > > I've got problem with some regexp. Better post code here:
>
> > > "
> > > ?>>> import re
> > > ?>>> mail = '\nn... at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$]
> > > mail [$dot$] com\n'
> > > ?>>> mail
> > > '\nn... at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] mail [$dot$]
> > > com\n'
> > > ?>>> print mail
>
> > > n... at mail.com
> > > name1 [at] mail [dot] com
> > > name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com
>
> > > ?>>> maail = re.sub('^\n|$\n', '', mail)
> > > ?>>> print maail
> > > n... at mail.com
> > > name1 [at] mail [dot] com
> > > name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com
> > > ?>>> maail = re.sub(' ', '', maail)
> > > ?>>> print maail
> > > n... at mail.com
> > > name1[at]mail[dot]com
> > > name2[$at$]mail[$dot$]com
> > > ?>>> maail = re.sub('\[at\]|\[\$at\$\]', '@', maail)
> > > ?>>> print maail
> > > n... at mail.com
> > > name1 at mail[dot]com
> > > name2 at mail[$dot$]com
> > > ?>>> maail = re.sub('\[dot\]|\[\$dot\$\]', '.', maail)
> > > ?>>> print maail
> > > n... at mail.com
> > > na... at mail.com
> > > na... at mail.com
> > > ?>>> #How must i write the replace string to replace all this regexp's
> > > with just ONE command, in string 'mail' ?
> > > ?>>> maail = re.sub('^\n|$\n| |\[at\]|\[\$at\$\]|\[dot\]|\[\$dot\$\]',
> > > *?*, mail)
> > > "
>
> > > How must i write that replace pattern (look at question mark), to maek
> > > that substituion work? I didn't saw anything helpful while reading Re
> > > doc and HowTo (from Python Doc). I tried with 'MatchObject.group()' but
> > > something gone wrong - didn't wrote it right.
> > > Is there more user friendly HowTo for Python Re, than this?
>
> > > I'm new to programming an regexp, sorry for inconvenience.
>
> > I don't think you can do it in one regex, nor would I want to. Just use
> > the string's replace() method.
>
> > ?>>> mail = '\nn... at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$]
> > mail [$dot$] com\n'
> > ?>>> mail
> > '\nn... at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] mail [$dot$]
> > com\n'
> > ?>>> print mail
>
> > n... at mail.com
> > name1 [at] mail [dot] com
> > name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com
>
> > ?>>> maail = mail.strip()
> > n... at mail.com
> > name1 [at] mail [dot] com
> > name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com
>
> > ?>>> maail = maail.replace(' ', '')
> > ?>>> print maail
> > n... at mail.com
> > name1[at]mail[dot]com
> > name2[$at$]mail[$dot$]com
> > ?>>> maail = maail.replace('[at]', '@').replace('[$at$]', '@')
> > ?>>> print maail
> > n... at mail.com
> > name1 at mail[dot]com
> > name2 at mail[$dot$]com
> > ?>>> maail = maail.replace('[dot]', '.').replace('[$dot$]', '.')
> > ?>>> print maail
> > n... at mail.com
> > na... at mail.com
> > na... at mail.com
>
> Too bad, I thought that the almighty re module could do anything, but
> it failed with this (or maybe re can do what i want, but only few
> people knows how to force him to that? ?:P).
> But with help of MRAB, i choose The 3rd Point of Python's Zen -
> "Simple is better than complex."
>
> "
>
> >>> mail = '\nn... at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com\n'
> >>> mail
>
> '\nn... at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] mail [$dot$]
> com\n'
>
> >>> print mail
>
> n... at mail.com
> name1 [at] mail [dot] com
> name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com
>
> >>> maail = mail.lstrip().rstrip().replace(' ', '').replace('[dot]', '.').replace('[$dot$]', '.').replace('[at]', '@').replace('[$at$]', '@')
> >>> print maail
>
> n... at mail.com
> na... at mail.com
> na... at mail.com
>
> >>> #Did it ?:)
>
> "
>
> Thanks again ? :)

Short of writing a dedicated function I might be tempted to write this
as:

EMAIL_REPLACEMENTS = (
    ('[at]', '@'),
    ('[dot]', '.'),
    ...
)

for src, dest in EMAIL_REPLACEMENTS:
    mail = mail.replace(src, dest)

Apart from taste reasons, it keeps the replaces more obvious (and
accessible via a variable rather than embedded in the code), enables
swapping the order or adding/removing easier.

Jon



From cournape at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 08:08:18 2009
From: cournape at gmail.com (David Cournapeau)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 21:08:18 +0900
Subject: Using Python to automate builds
In-Reply-To: <200908050956.33995.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
References: <84d9ae10-3aee-40a8-97ac-05799da0de64@f18g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<200908050956.33995.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
Message-ID: <5b8d13220908050508n32f05bep4c275cec14914588@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 4:56 PM, Hendrik van
Rooyen wrote:
> On Tuesday 04 August 2009 21:13:10 Kosta wrote:
>> I am a Python newbie, tasked with automating (researching) building
>> Windows drivers using the WDK build environment. ?I've been looking
>> into Python for this (instead of writing a bunch of batch files).
>>
> Why do you not use make and a makefile - it was designed to
> do exactly this.

Because make is a pain on windows (lack of a proper shell) ?

cheers,

David


From jfine at pytex.org  Wed Aug  5 08:17:44 2009
From: jfine at pytex.org (Jonathan Fine)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 13:17:44 +0100
Subject: Do anyone here use Python *embedded* in a database?
Message-ID: 

Hi

I'm writing a talk that compares embed and extend, and wondered if 
anyone here ever used the Python *embedded* in a database server.
     http://twistedmatrix.com/users/glyph/rant/extendit.html

Web frameworks (such as Django) use extend, to import an extension 
module that makes a connection to a database.

If you have used embed, you might have consulted a page such as:
     http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.3/interactive/plpython-funcs.html

-- 
Jonathan


From ryniek90 at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 08:21:43 2009
From: ryniek90 at gmail.com (ryniek)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 05:21:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to write replace string for object which will be substituted?
	[regexp]
References:  
	<4A78B425.2010604@gmail.com> <4A78BC68.2020601@mrabarnett.plus.com> 
	
Message-ID: <0cde7cf6-0365-44da-b044-9066d522fa2d@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On 5 Sie, 13:28, Anthra Norell  wrote:
> MRAB wrote:
> > ryniek90 wrote:
> >> Hi.
> >> I started learning regexp, and some things goes well, but most of
> >> them still not.
>
> >> I've got problem with some regexp. Better post code here:
>
> >> "
> >> ?>>> import re
> >> ?>>> mail = '\nn... at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$]
> >> mail [$dot$] com\n'
> >> ?>>> mail
> >> '\nn... at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] mail
> >> [$dot$] com\n'
> >> ?>>> print mail
>
> >> n... at mail.com
> >> name1 [at] mail [dot] com
> >> name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com
>
> >> ?>>> maail = re.sub('^\n|$\n', '', mail)
> >> ?>>> print maail
> >> n... at mail.com
> >> name1 [at] mail [dot] com
> >> name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com
> >> ?>>> maail = re.sub(' ', '', maail)
> >> ?>>> print maail
> >> n... at mail.com
> >> name1[at]mail[dot]com
> >> name2[$at$]mail[$dot$]com
> >> ?>>> maail = re.sub('\[at\]|\[\$at\$\]', '@', maail)
> >> ?>>> print maail
> >> n... at mail.com
> >> name1 at mail[dot]com
> >> name2 at mail[$dot$]com
> >> ?>>> maail = re.sub('\[dot\]|\[\$dot\$\]', '.', maail)
> >> ?>>> print maail
> >> n... at mail.com
> >> na... at mail.com
> >> na... at mail.com
> >> ?>>> #How must i write the replace string to replace all this
> >> regexp's with just ONE command, in string 'mail' ?
> >> ?>>> maail = re.sub('^\n|$\n|
> >> |\[at\]|\[\$at\$\]|\[dot\]|\[\$dot\$\]', *?*, mail)
> >> "
>
> >> How must i write that replace pattern (look at question mark), to
> >> maek that substituion work? I didn't saw anything helpful while
> >> reading Re doc and HowTo (from Python Doc). I tried with
> >> 'MatchObject.group()' but something gone wrong - didn't wrote it right.
> >> Is there more user friendly HowTo for Python Re, than this?
>
> >> I'm new to programming an regexp, sorry for inconvenience.
>
> > I don't think you can do it in one regex, nor would I want to. Just use
> > the string's replace() method.
>
> > >>> mail = '\nn... at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$]
> > mail [$dot$] com\n'
> > >>> mail
> > '\nn... at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] mail [$dot$]
> > com\n'
> > >>> print mail
>
> > n... at mail.com
> > name1 [at] mail [dot] com
> > name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com
>
> > >>> maail = mail.strip()
> > n... at mail.com
> > name1 [at] mail [dot] com
> > name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com
>
> > >>> maail = maail.replace(' ', '')
> > >>> print maail
> > n... at mail.com
> > name1[at]mail[dot]com
> > name2[$at$]mail[$dot$]com
> > >>> maail = maail.replace('[at]', '@').replace('[$at$]', '@')
> > >>> print maail
> > n... at mail.com
> > name1 at mail[dot]com
> > name2 at mail[$dot$]com
> > >>> maail = maail.replace('[dot]', '.').replace('[$dot$]', '.')
> > >>> print maail
> > n... at mail.com
> > na... at mail.com
> > na... at mail.com
>
> This is a good learning exercise demonstrating the impracticality of
> regular expressions in a given situation. In the light of the
> fascination regular expressions seem to exert in general, one might
> conclude that knowing regular expressions in essence is knowing when not
> to use them.
>
> There is nothing wrong with cascading substitutions through multiple
> expressions. The OP's solution wrapped up in a function and streamlined
> for needless regex overkill might look something like this:
>
> def translate (s):
> ? ?s1 = s.strip () ? ? # Instead of: s1 = re.sub ('^\n|$\n', '', s)
> ? ?s2 = s1.replace (' ', '') ? ?# Instead of: s2 = re.sub (' ', '', s1)
> ? ?s3 = re.sub ('\[at\]|\[\$at\$\]', '@', s2)
> ? ?s4 = re.sub ('\[dot\]|\[\$dot\$\]', '.', s3)
> ? ?return s4
>
> print translate (mail) ? # Tested
>
> MRAB's solution using replace () avoids needless regex complexity, but
> doesn't simplify tedious coding if the number of substitutions is
> significant. Some time ago I proposed a little module I made to
> alleviate the tedium. It would handle this case like this:
>
> import SE
> Translator = SE.SE ( ' (32)= [at]=@ [$at$]=@ [dot]=. [$dot$]=. ' )
> print Translator (mail.strip ()) ? # Tested
>
> So SE.SE compiles a string composed of any number of substitution
> definitions into an object that translates anything given it. In a
> running speed contest it would surely come in last, although in most
> cases the disadvantage would be imperceptible. Another matter is coding
> speed. Here the advantage is obvious, even with a set of substitutions
> as small as this one, let alone with sets in the tens or even hundreds.
> One inconspicuous but significant feature of SE is that it handles
> precedence correctly if targets overlap (upstream over downstream and
> long over short). As far as I know there's nothing in the Python system
> handling substitution precedence. It always needs to be hand-coded from
> one case to the next and that isn't exactly trivial.
>
> SE can be downloaded fromhttp://pypi.python.org/pypi/SE/2.3.
>
> Frederic

Thanks again.  :)

I saw that MRAB is actively developing new implementation of re
module.
MRAB: You think it'd be good idea adding to Your project some best
features of SE module?
I didn't seen yet features of Your re module but will try to find time
even today, to see what's going on.

Greets


From ryniek90 at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 08:21:56 2009
From: ryniek90 at gmail.com (ryniek)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 05:21:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to write replace string for object which will be substituted?
	[regexp]
References:  
	<4A78B425.2010604@gmail.com> <4A78BC68.2020601@mrabarnett.plus.com> 
	
Message-ID: 

On 5 Sie, 13:28, Anthra Norell  wrote:
> MRAB wrote:
> > ryniek90 wrote:
> >> Hi.
> >> I started learning regexp, and some things goes well, but most of
> >> them still not.
>
> >> I've got problem with some regexp. Better post code here:
>
> >> "
> >> ?>>> import re
> >> ?>>> mail = '\nn... at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$]
> >> mail [$dot$] com\n'
> >> ?>>> mail
> >> '\nn... at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] mail
> >> [$dot$] com\n'
> >> ?>>> print mail
>
> >> n... at mail.com
> >> name1 [at] mail [dot] com
> >> name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com
>
> >> ?>>> maail = re.sub('^\n|$\n', '', mail)
> >> ?>>> print maail
> >> n... at mail.com
> >> name1 [at] mail [dot] com
> >> name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com
> >> ?>>> maail = re.sub(' ', '', maail)
> >> ?>>> print maail
> >> n... at mail.com
> >> name1[at]mail[dot]com
> >> name2[$at$]mail[$dot$]com
> >> ?>>> maail = re.sub('\[at\]|\[\$at\$\]', '@', maail)
> >> ?>>> print maail
> >> n... at mail.com
> >> name1 at mail[dot]com
> >> name2 at mail[$dot$]com
> >> ?>>> maail = re.sub('\[dot\]|\[\$dot\$\]', '.', maail)
> >> ?>>> print maail
> >> n... at mail.com
> >> na... at mail.com
> >> na... at mail.com
> >> ?>>> #How must i write the replace string to replace all this
> >> regexp's with just ONE command, in string 'mail' ?
> >> ?>>> maail = re.sub('^\n|$\n|
> >> |\[at\]|\[\$at\$\]|\[dot\]|\[\$dot\$\]', *?*, mail)
> >> "
>
> >> How must i write that replace pattern (look at question mark), to
> >> maek that substituion work? I didn't saw anything helpful while
> >> reading Re doc and HowTo (from Python Doc). I tried with
> >> 'MatchObject.group()' but something gone wrong - didn't wrote it right.
> >> Is there more user friendly HowTo for Python Re, than this?
>
> >> I'm new to programming an regexp, sorry for inconvenience.
>
> > I don't think you can do it in one regex, nor would I want to. Just use
> > the string's replace() method.
>
> > >>> mail = '\nn... at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$]
> > mail [$dot$] com\n'
> > >>> mail
> > '\nn... at mail.com\nname1 [at] mail [dot] com\nname2 [$at$] mail [$dot$]
> > com\n'
> > >>> print mail
>
> > n... at mail.com
> > name1 [at] mail [dot] com
> > name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com
>
> > >>> maail = mail.strip()
> > n... at mail.com
> > name1 [at] mail [dot] com
> > name2 [$at$] mail [$dot$] com
>
> > >>> maail = maail.replace(' ', '')
> > >>> print maail
> > n... at mail.com
> > name1[at]mail[dot]com
> > name2[$at$]mail[$dot$]com
> > >>> maail = maail.replace('[at]', '@').replace('[$at$]', '@')
> > >>> print maail
> > n... at mail.com
> > name1 at mail[dot]com
> > name2 at mail[$dot$]com
> > >>> maail = maail.replace('[dot]', '.').replace('[$dot$]', '.')
> > >>> print maail
> > n... at mail.com
> > na... at mail.com
> > na... at mail.com
>
> This is a good learning exercise demonstrating the impracticality of
> regular expressions in a given situation. In the light of the
> fascination regular expressions seem to exert in general, one might
> conclude that knowing regular expressions in essence is knowing when not
> to use them.
>
> There is nothing wrong with cascading substitutions through multiple
> expressions. The OP's solution wrapped up in a function and streamlined
> for needless regex overkill might look something like this:
>
> def translate (s):
> ? ?s1 = s.strip () ? ? # Instead of: s1 = re.sub ('^\n|$\n', '', s)
> ? ?s2 = s1.replace (' ', '') ? ?# Instead of: s2 = re.sub (' ', '', s1)
> ? ?s3 = re.sub ('\[at\]|\[\$at\$\]', '@', s2)
> ? ?s4 = re.sub ('\[dot\]|\[\$dot\$\]', '.', s3)
> ? ?return s4
>
> print translate (mail) ? # Tested
>
> MRAB's solution using replace () avoids needless regex complexity, but
> doesn't simplify tedious coding if the number of substitutions is
> significant. Some time ago I proposed a little module I made to
> alleviate the tedium. It would handle this case like this:
>
> import SE
> Translator = SE.SE ( ' (32)= [at]=@ [$at$]=@ [dot]=. [$dot$]=. ' )
> print Translator (mail.strip ()) ? # Tested
>
> So SE.SE compiles a string composed of any number of substitution
> definitions into an object that translates anything given it. In a
> running speed contest it would surely come in last, although in most
> cases the disadvantage would be imperceptible. Another matter is coding
> speed. Here the advantage is obvious, even with a set of substitutions
> as small as this one, let alone with sets in the tens or even hundreds.
> One inconspicuous but significant feature of SE is that it handles
> precedence correctly if targets overlap (upstream over downstream and
> long over short). As far as I know there's nothing in the Python system
> handling substitution precedence. It always needs to be hand-coded from
> one case to the next and that isn't exactly trivial.
>
> SE can be downloaded fromhttp://pypi.python.org/pypi/SE/2.3.
>
> Frederic

Thanks again.  :)

I saw that MRAB is actively developing new implementation of re
module.
MRAB: You think it'd be good idea adding to Your project some best
features of SE module?
I didn't seen yet features of Your re module but will try to find time
even today, to see what's going on.

Greets


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Wed Aug  5 08:28:15 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 14:28:15 +0200
Subject: Special chars with HTMLParser
References: <5c6941f8-c53e-4518-8ce5-83be64689307@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Fafounet  (F) wrote:

>F> Hello,
>F> I am parsing a web page with special chars such as é (which
>F> stands for ?).
>F> I know I can have the unicode character ? from unicode
>F> ("\xe9","iso-8859-1")
>F> but with those extra characters I don' t know.

>F> I tried to implement handle_charref within HTMLParser without success.
>F> Furthermore, if I have the data abécd, handle_data will get "ab",
>F> handle_charref will get xe9 and then handle_data doesn't have the end
>F> of the string ("cd").

The character references indicate Unicode ordinals, not iso-8859-1
characters. In your example it will give the proper character because
iso-8859-1 coincides with the first part of the Unicode ordinals, but
for character outside of iso-8859-1 it will fail.

This should give you an idea:

from htmlentitydefs import name2codepoint
...
    def handle_charref(self, name):
        if name.startswith('x'):
            num = int(name[1:], 16)
        else:
            num = int(name, 10)
        print 'char:', repr(unichr(num))

    def handle_entityref(self, name):
        print 'char:', unichr(name2codepoint[name])
        
If your HTML may be illegal you should add some exception handling.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From Tribulations at Paralleles.invalid  Wed Aug  5 08:33:03 2009
From: Tribulations at Paralleles.invalid (TP)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 14:33:03 +0200
Subject: intricated functions: how to share a variable
References: 
	<9a937d26-2375-4836-9824-d34d9f92d284@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Bearophile wrote:

> So probably a better solution is to just use the normal function
> semantics: you pass them an argument and you take an argument as
> return value. Such return value will be the new version of the value
> you talk about.

Thanks for your answer.
Yes, it is better like this. My problem is that I cannot get the return
values of the function and affect it to some variable, because the function
is called via a "signal-slot" connection of PyQt4, not by an explicit
inline function call.

For example:
#########
def tutu():

    def toto():

        print a
        a = 4
        print a

    a=2

    # ...
    # definition of some graphical QPushButton "button"
    # ...
    # ...

    self.connect( button, SIGNAL( "clicked" ), toto )

tutu()
##########

Then, as advised Diez, perhaps the best solution is to have "true" global
variables by using a class and defining the variable a as a member self.a
of the class. By doing like this, a will be known everywhere.

Julien
-- 
python -c "print ''.join([chr(154 - ord(c)) for c in '*9(9&(18%.\
9&1+,\'Z4(55l4('])"

"When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is
possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is
impossible, he is very probably wrong." (first law of AC Clarke)


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Wed Aug  5 08:34:31 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 14:34:31 +0200
Subject: trouble with complex numbers
References: <24821423.post@talk.nabble.com>
	
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Christian Heimes  (CH) wrote:

>CH> You can write your own phase() function. This function is mostly correct
>CH> unless either the real and/or the imag part is NaN or INF.

>CH> from math import atan2

>CH> def phase(z):
>CH>     z += 1j # convert int, long, float to complex

That should be z += 0j

>CH>     return atan2(z.imag, z.real)

-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From kpalamartchouk at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 08:50:04 2009
From: kpalamartchouk at gmail.com (kpal)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 05:50:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Datetime with float seconds
Message-ID: 

Hello Everybody,

The standard datetime has 1 microsecond granularity. My application
needs finer time resolution, preferably float seconds. Is there an
alternative to the out-of-the-box datetime? Timezone support is not
essential.

Thanks,


From nick.m.daly at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 08:56:14 2009
From: nick.m.daly at gmail.com (Nick Daly)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 07:56:14 -0500
Subject: The Perils of PyContract (and Generators)
Message-ID: <4A79816E.5050106@gmail.com>

On Wed, 5 Aug 2009 03:06 pm Nick Daly wrote:

> The problem actually lies in the contract.  Generally, the PyContract
> shouldn't affect the return values or in any way modify the code, which
> it doesn't, as long as the function returns a list values (the way the
> code had in fact originally been written).  However, the contract
> mentioned above is actually quite wrong for a generator.

Yes, because you are conflating the items yielded from the
generator with the generator object returned from the generator
function "find_files". You can't look inside the generator object
without using up whichever items you look at.

[...]
> Correcting the above example involves doing nothing more than
> simplifying the contract:
>
>     post:
>         name in __return__

That can't be right, not unless PyContract is doing something I don't
expect. I expect that would be equivalent of:

'fish' in 

which should fail:

>>> __return__ = find_files('fish')  # a generator object
>>> 'fish' in __return__
False
>>>
>>> __return__ = find_files('fish')
>>> __return__ = list(__return__)
>>> 'fish' in __return__
False
>>> __return__
['one fish', 'two fish', 'red fish', 'blue fish']

Of course, I may be mistaking what PyContract is doing.

-----

No, you're absolutely right, I realized the error in my email moments
after sending it, I was just hoping no one was paying enough attention
to notice.  I'm essentially asking PyContract to operate outside of the
generator (it needs to check the return value of a generator, without
changing its internal state), which doesn't seem to have an easy
solution unless generators have some fantastic reverse_states function
that I haven't heard about.  I suppose one could be built, saving off
the values of all local variables for later restoration, but that would
still be dependent on the state of the rest of the machine and could not
guarantee giving the same answer twice in a row.

So, the moral of the story seems to be that PyContract's post-return
value checking doesn't mix with generators at all.  Sort of sad, because
they're two neat flavors that would go great together but are instead
technically incompatible.  A decent set of unit-tests would accomplish
the same thing much less destructively anyway.

Nick


From fafounet at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 09:03:46 2009
From: fafounet at gmail.com (Fafounet)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 06:03:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Special chars with HTMLParser
References: <5c6941f8-c53e-4518-8ce5-83be64689307@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <69835fa3-c6a0-44d3-bba2-5e3117102590@k30g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>

Thank you, now I can get the correct character.

Now when I have the string abécd I can get ab then ? thanks to
your function and then cd. But how is it possible to know that cd is
still the same word ?


Fabien


> The character references indicate Unicode ordinals, not iso-8859-1
> characters. In your example it will give the proper character because
> iso-8859-1 coincides with the first part of the Unicode ordinals, but
> for character outside of iso-8859-1 it will fail.
>
> This should give you an idea:
>
> from htmlentitydefs import name2codepoint
> ...
> ? ? def handle_charref(self, name):
> ? ? ? ? if name.startswith('x'):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? num = int(name[1:], 16)
> ? ? ? ? else:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? num = int(name, 10)
> ? ? ? ? print 'char:', repr(unichr(num))
>
> ? ? def handle_entityref(self, name):
> ? ? ? ? print 'char:', unichr(name2codepoint[name])
>
> If your HTML may be illegal you should add some exception handling.
> --
> Piet van Oostrum 
> URL:http://pietvanoostrum.com[PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
> Private email: p... at vanoostrum.org



From contact at xavierho.com  Wed Aug  5 09:15:53 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 23:15:53 +1000
Subject: Datetime with float seconds
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908050615i1d8f5137v3295c1ab574067c5@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 10:50 PM, kpal  wrote:

> Hello Everybody,
>
> The standard datetime has 1 microsecond granularity. My application
> needs finer time resolution, preferably float seconds. Is there an
> alternative to the out-of-the-box datetime? Timezone support is not
> essential.


This is a little outdated, but:

>>>from time import time

Usually gets me things like

#output
Run time: 0.0279998779297 seconds.

So... that might be what you want.

- Xavier
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From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 09:35:19 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 06:35:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: intricated functions: how to share a variable
References: 
	<9a937d26-2375-4836-9824-d34d9f92d284@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

TP  wrote:
> Then, as advised Diez, perhaps the best solution is to have "true" global
> variables by using a class and defining the variable a as a member self.a
> of the class. By doing like this, a will be known everywhere.

Or, as Bearophile suggested, you could use the standard way of passing
arguments into a function:

>>> def tutu():
...   a = 2
...   def toto(a=a):
...     print 'toto', a
...     a = 4
...     print 'toto', a
...   print 'tutu', a
...   toto()
...   print 'tutu', a
...
>>> tutu()
tutu 2
toto 2
toto 4
tutu 2

You could also just do 'toto(a)', but as you're trying to create a
closure here, binding the external scope 'a' to toto via the default
argument will (probably) do what you need.


From jnoller at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 09:40:57 2009
From: jnoller at gmail.com (Jesse Noller)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 06:40:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is this a bug in multiprocessing or in my script?
References: 
	<2f26a239-2f06-40f8-b0f0-d2e55edbe5e5@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <74bd61ff-c666-4f78-9441-5422e858ea0b@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 5, 1:21?am, sturlamolden  wrote:
> On Aug 5, 4:37 am, erikcw  wrote:
>
> > It's not always the same traceback, but they are always short like
> > this. ?I'm running Python 2.6.2 on Ubuntu 9.04.
>
> > Any idea how I can debug this?
>
> In my experience,multiprocessingis fragile. Scripts tend fo fail for
> no obvious reason, case processes to be orphaned and linger, system-
> wide resource leaks, etc. For example,multiprocessinguses os._exit
> to stop a spawned process, even though it inevitably results in
> resource leaks on Linux (it should use sys.exit). Ga?l Varoquaux and I
> noticed this when we implemented shared memory ndarrays for numpy; we
> consistently got memory leaks with System V IPC for no obvious reason.
> Even after Jesse Noller was informed of the problem (about half a year
> ago), the bug still lingers. It is easy editmultiprocessing's
> forking.py file on you own, but bugs like this is a pain in the ass,
> and I suspectmultiprocessinghas many of them. Of course unless you
> show us you whole script, identifying the source of your bug will be
> impossible. But it may very likely be inmultiprocessingas well. The
> quality of this module is not impressing. I am beginning to think thatmultiprocessingshould never have made it into the Python standard
> library. The GIL cannot be that bad! If you can't stand the GIL, get a
> Unix (or Mac, Linux, Cygwin) and use os.fork. Or simply switch to a
> non-GIL Python: IronPython or Jython.
>
> Allow me to show you something better. With os.fork we can write code
> like this:
>
> class parallel(object):
>
> ? ?def __enter__(self):
> ? ? ? ?# call os.fork
>
> ? ?def __exit__(self, exc_type, exc_value, traceback):
> ? ? ? ?# call sys.exit in the child processes and
> ? ? ? ?# os.waitpid in the parent
>
> ? ?def __call__(self, iterable):
> ? ? ? ?# return different sub-subsequences depending on
> ? ? ? ?# child or parent status
>
> with parallel() as p:
> ? ? # parallel block starts here
>
> ? ? for item in p(iterable):
> ? ? ? ? # whatever
>
> ? ? # parallel block ends here
>
> This makes parallel code a lot cleaner than anything you can do withmultiprocessing, allowing you to use constructs similar to OpenMP.
> Further, if you make 'parallel' a dummy context manager, you can
> develop and test the algorithms serially. The only drawback is that
> you have to use Cygwin to get os.fork on Windows, and forking will be
> less efficient (no copy-on-write optimization). Well, this is just one
> example of why Windows sucks from the perspective of the programmer.
> But it also shows that you can do much better by notusingmultiprocessingat all.
>
> The only case I can think of wheremultiprocessingwould be usesful,
> is I/O bound code on Windows. But here you will almost always resort
> to C extension modules. For I/O bound code, Python tends to give you a
> 200x speed penalty over C. If you are resorting to C anyway, you can
> just use OpenMP in C for your parallel processing. We can thus forget
> aboutmultiprocessinghere as well, given that we have access to the C
> code. If we don't, it is still very likely that the C code releases
> the GIL, and we can get away withusingPython threads instead ofmultiprocessing.
>
> IMHO, if you areusingmultiprocessing, you are very likely to have a
> design problem.
>
> Regards,
> Sturla

Sturla;

That bug was fixed unless I'm missing something. Also, patches and
continued bug reports are welcome.

jesse


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 09:41:56 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 06:41:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: trouble with complex numbers
References: <24821423.post@talk.nabble.com>
	 
	
Message-ID: 

Piet van Oostrum  wrote:
> That should be z += 0j

Pardon my ignorance, but could anyone explain the rationale behind
using 'j' to indicate the imaginary number (as opposed to the more
intuitive 'i')?

(Not that I've had much call to use complex numbers but I'm
curious....)


From jjposner at optimum.net  Wed Aug  5 09:46:16 2009
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 09:46:16 -0400
Subject: Announcing PythonTurtle
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A798D28.5060004@optimum.net>


>> OK, then why the statements "from turtle import *" in the modules
>> turtleprocess.py and turtlewidget.py?
>>     

Yes, I see that now (he said meekly, too sheepish to complain about 
being misled by an unfortunate naming choice).

Tx,
John



From casevh at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 09:50:17 2009
From: casevh at gmail.com (casevh)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 06:50:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Turtle Graphics are incompatible with gmpy
References: 
	<0002b5d3$0$2970$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <5a4ab236-4cbf-4895-935a-5fdc712f0d08@u38g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 5, 12:19?am, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Aug 2009 03:49 pm Mensanator wrote:
>
> > In 3.1, tracing is now a screen attribute, not a turtle atribute.
> > I have no idea why
>
> > ? tooter = turtle.Turtle()
> > ? tooter.tracer(False)
>
> > doesn't give me an error (I thought silent errors were a bad thing).
>
> What makes it an error? Do you consider the following an error?
>
> >>> class Test:
>
> ... ? ? pass
> ...
>
> >>> t = Test()
> >>> t.tracer = 5
>
> Perhaps you mean, it's an API change you didn't know about, and you wish to
> protest that Turtle Graphics made an incompatible API change without
> telling you?
>
> > Naturally, having tracing on caused my program to crash.
>
> It seg faulted or raised an exception?
>
> [...]
>
> > Unfortunately, that calculation of nhops is illegal if diffsq is
> > an .mpf (gmpy floating point). Otherwise, you get
>
> How does diffsq get to be a mpf? Are gmpy floats supposed to be supported?
>
> --
> Steven

The root cause of the error is that GMP, the underlying library for
gmpy, provides only the basic floating point operations. gmpy
implements a very limited exponentiation function. Python's math
library will convert an mpf to a float automatically so I think the
revised calculation for nhops should work with either any numerical
type that supports __float__.

casevh


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Wed Aug  5 10:29:39 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 16:29:39 +0200
Subject: Using Python to automate builds
In-Reply-To: <5b8d13220908050508n32f05bep4c275cec14914588@mail.gmail.com>
References: <84d9ae10-3aee-40a8-97ac-05799da0de64@f18g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<200908050956.33995.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
	<5b8d13220908050508n32f05bep4c275cec14914588@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200908051629.39417.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Wednesday 05 August 2009 14:08:18 David Cournapeau wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 4:56 PM, Hendrik van
>
> Rooyen wrote:
> > On Tuesday 04 August 2009 21:13:10 Kosta wrote:
> >> I am a Python newbie, tasked with automating (researching) building
> >> Windows drivers using the WDK build environment. ?I've been looking
> >> into Python for this (instead of writing a bunch of batch files).
> >
> > Why do you not use make and a makefile - it was designed to
> > do exactly this.
>
> Because make is a pain on windows (lack of a proper shell) ?

Well, you could always use Dosbox - I am doing exactly that
on Linux to be able to run some old DOS based assembler
tools.  It will run on windows too, they claim.

And it is very simple to use too - no fancy fidgeting, all you have 
to do is to point it at a directory that becomes your "C" drive.

Bit slow - but hey, nobody's perfect.

- Hendrik



From contact at xavierho.com  Wed Aug  5 10:32:15 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 00:32:15 +1000
Subject: Subclassing Python's dict
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908050732i7792bf7ft32accf1bc1157421@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 11:51 AM, Sergey Simonenko wrote:

> I subclass builtin 'dict' in my application and experience some problems
> with it.
>

You should subclass collections.UserDict, and not the default dict class.
Refer to the collections module.

Also, the ABC MutableMapping might be of your interest.


> Another guy have reported me that he experiences similar problems with
> subclassing builtin 'list'.


Similarly, UserList is what you should subclass.

HTH,

Ching-Yun "Xavier" Ho, Technical Artist

Contact Information
Mobile: (+61) 04 3335 4748
Skype ID: SpaXe85
Email: contact at xavierho.com
Website: http://xavierho.com/
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From joncle at googlemail.com  Wed Aug  5 10:32:37 2009
From: joncle at googlemail.com (Jon Clements)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 07:32:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Do anyone here use Python *embedded* in a database?
References: 
Message-ID: <767b6862-065f-480a-82f5-ed3aa35bf84d@n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On 5 Aug, 13:17, Jonathan Fine  wrote:
> Hi
>
> I'm writing a talk that compares embed and extend, and wondered if
> anyone here ever used the Python *embedded* in a database server.
> ? ? ?http://twistedmatrix.com/users/glyph/rant/extendit.html
>
> Web frameworks (such as Django) use extend, to import an extension
> module that makes a connection to a database.
>
> If you have used embed, you might have consulted a page such as:
> ? ? ?http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.3/interactive/plpython-funcs.html
>
> --
> Jonathan

Yup, have used plpythonu within postgres without too many problems.
Although I do recall once that using the CSV module to load and filter
external data, did consume a massive amount of memory. Even though the
entire procedure was iterator based -- never did work out if it was
postgres caching, or some other weird stuff. [That was about 2 years
ago though]

Jon.


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Wed Aug  5 10:39:52 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 16:39:52 +0200
Subject: Subclassing Python's dict
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4a7999b1$0$306$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Sergey Simonenko a ?crit :
> Hi,
> 
> I subclass builtin 'dict' in my application and experience some problems 
> with it.
> 
> The whole issue is that I should redefine 'setdefault' and 'update' 
> methods after redefining '__setitem__' or/and '__delitem__',
> otherwise 'update' and 'setdefault' ignore redefined '__setitem__' and 
> use builtin dict's one so dict looks kinda like a black box.
> 
> Another guy have reported me that he experiences similar problems with 
> subclassing builtin 'list'.

I indeed notice this behaviour here (Python 2.6.2). I'm afraid it has to 
do with some optimization tricks (dict being the very fundamental data 
structure in Python, it has to be higly optimized).



From af1ing at seznam.cz  Wed Aug  5 10:41:05 2009
From: af1ing at seznam.cz (Rog)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 07:41:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: http access produces 503
Message-ID: <3b5ab07c-7b0b-4d23-965b-192dc86cf6ff@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

I am porting a simple code from Perl, the website asks for usr/pwd and
the server's side Perl script makes atemp ftp dir for file upload.

The original Perl script connects okay, does its job. The same URL
stuffed into FF3 performs the same way.
My Python script I am sweating out for past four days (noob!) gets
consistently "503", even with user agen set to: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows;
U; Windows NT 5.1; it; rv:1.8.1.11) Gecko/20071127 Firefox/2.0.0.11.
Snippets of relevant code below.

Please, help me understand how this same code lets me log in into my
router usr/pwd running .asp, but this !@#$% perl script returns to me
w/503 c*ap?
Thank you.

Do I need to set any proxy? The server is on intranet and the FF3 is
set to proxy. The original Perl script did not use any proxy setting.



url = http://example.com/ftpsetup.pl?username=boofa&nodeid=42
#########################################################
# create a password manager
    password_mgr = urllib2.HTTPPasswordMgrWithDefaultRealm()
# Add the username and password.
# If we knew the realm, we could use it instead of ``None``.
    password_mgr.add_password(None, url, uid, pcode)
    handler = urllib2.HTTPBasicAuthHandler(password_mgr)
    class Mopener(URLopener): version = "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U;
Windows NT 5.1; it; rv:1.8.1.11) Gecko/20071127 Firefox/2.0.0.11"

    opener = Mopener()

# create "opener" (OpenerDirector instance)

    opener = urllib2.build_opener(handler)
    opener.addheaders = [('User-agent', 'Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U;
Windows NT 5.1; it; rv:1.8.1.11) Gecko/20071127 Firefox/2.0.0.11')]

    opener.version = "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; it; rv:
1.8.1.11) Gecko/20071127 Firefox/2.0.0.11"

    print opener.version
# timeout in seconds
    timeout = 10
    socket.setdefaulttimeout(timeout)

# Install the opener all calls to urllib2.urlopen use our opener.
    urllib2.install_opener(opener)

    try:
        response = opener.open(url)
        # "http://www.useragent.org/" tested okay!!!
        print"ok = 1"
    except:
        print "error 1"
#####################################################################################

output from the above:

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; it; rv:1.8.1.11) Gecko/
20071127 Firefox/2.0.0.11
error 1
Error code:  503
('Service Unavailable', 'The server cannot process the request due to
a high load')




From michael at stroeder.com  Wed Aug  5 10:43:09 2009
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?=)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 16:43:09 +0200
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
Message-ID: 

HI!

These both expressions are equivalent but which is faster or should be used
for any reason?

u = unicode(s,'utf-8')

u = s.decode('utf-8') # looks nicer

Ciao, Michael.


From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Wed Aug  5 10:46:13 2009
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 15:46:13 +0100
Subject: Parsing Binary Structures; Is there a better way / What is your way?
Message-ID: 

Hi List,

On several occasions I have needed (and build) a parser that reads a 
binary piece of data with custom structure. For example (bogus one):

BE
+---------+---------+-------------+-------------+------+--------+
| Version | Command | Instruction | Data Length | Data | Filler |
+---------+---------+-------------+-------------+------+--------+
Version: 6 bits
Command: 4 bits
Instruction: 5 bits
Data Length: 5 bits
Data: 0-31 bits
Filler: filling 0 bits to make the packet dividable by 8

what I usually do is read the packet in binary mode, convert the output 
to a concatenated 'binary string'(i.e. '0101011000110') and then use 
slice indeces to get the right data portions.
Depending on what I need to do with these portions I convert them to 
whatever is handy (usually an integer).

This works out fine for me. Most of the time I also put the ASCII art 
diagram of this 'protocol' as a comment in the code, making it more 
readable/understandable.

Though there are a couple of things that bothers me with my approach:
- This seems such a general problem that I think that there must be 
already a general pythonic solution.
- Using a string for binary representation takes at least 8 times more 
memory for the packet than strictly necessary.
- Seems to need a lot of prep work before doing the actual parsing.

Any suggestion is greatly appreciated.

-- 
MPH
http://blog.dcuktec.com
'If consumed, best digested with added seasoning to own preference.'


From dp_pearce at hotmail.com  Wed Aug  5 10:51:44 2009
From: dp_pearce at hotmail.com (dp_pearce)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 07:51:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is it possible to produce spider plots?
Message-ID: 

I want to be able to use Python to produce Spider plots (perhaps you
know them as radar plots or star plots). Does anyone know how to
achieve this? Are there existing libraries?

Direction to any examples, especially those with tutorials, would be
greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
Dan

http://www.answers.com/topic/spider-plot


From pruebauno at latinmail.com  Wed Aug  5 10:56:35 2009
From: pruebauno at latinmail.com (nn)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 07:56:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Overlap in python
References: 
	<4A78B19D.4020306@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	
Message-ID: <4c9f81a5-51b9-4487-9df9-d458b327d286@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 5, 7:13?am, Marcus Wanner  wrote:
> On 8/4/2009 6:09 PM, MRAB wrote:
>
> > ?>>> parts = [(5, 9, "a"), (7, 10, "b"), (3, 6, "c"), (15, 20, "d"),
> > (18, 23, "e")]
> > ?>>> parts.sort()
> > ?>>> parts
> > [(3, 6, 'c'), (5, 9, 'a'), (7, 10, 'b'), (15, 20, 'd'), (18, 23, 'e')]
> > ?>>> # Merge overlapping intervals.
> > ?>>> pos = 1
> > ?>>> while pos < len(parts):
> > ? ? ? ? # Merge the pair in parts[pos - 1 : pos + 1] if they overlap.
> > ? ? ? ? p, q = parts[pos - 1 : pos + 1]
> > ? ? ? ? if p[1] >= q[0]:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? parts[pos - 1 : pos + 1] = [(p[0], max(p[1], q[1]), p[2]
> > + "." + q[2])]
> > ? ? ? ? else:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # They don't overlap, so try the next pair.
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? pos += 1
>
> > ?>>> parts
> > [(3, 10, 'c.a.b'), (15, 23, 'd.e')]
>
> That's the best solution I've seen so far. It even has input/output
> formatted as close as is reasonably possible to the format specified.
>
> As we would say in googlecode, +1.
>
> Marcus

How does it compare to this one?

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_frm/thread/1a1d2ed9d05d11d0/56684b795fc527cc#56684b795fc527cc


From roger_lynx at yahoo.com  Wed Aug  5 11:05:38 2009
From: roger_lynx at yahoo.com (roger_lynx)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 15:05:38 -0000
Subject: web access yields "503"
Message-ID: 

Hi, I am porting a simple code from Perl, the website asks for 
usr/pwd and the server's side Perl script makes a temp ftp dir 
for a file upload.

The original Perl script connects okay, does its job. The same URL
stuffed into FF3 performs the same way.
My Python script I am sweating over for past four days (noob!) gets
consistently "503", even with user agent set to: 
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows;U; Windows NT 5.1; it; rv:1.8.1.11)Gecko/20071127 Firefox/2.0.0.11.

Snippets of relevant code below, heavily copied from this author:
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/articles/urllib2.shtml

Please, help me understand how this same code lets me log in into my
router usr/pwd running .asp, but this !@#$% perl script returns to me
w/503 c*ap?
Thank you.

Do I need to set any proxy? 
The server is on intranet and the FF3 is
set to proxy. 
The original Perl script did not use any proxy setting! 
LWP::



url = http://bad_example.com/ftpsetup.pl?username=boofa&nodeid=42
#########################################################
# create a password manager
    password_mgr = urllib2.HTTPPasswordMgrWithDefaultRealm()
# Add the username and password.
# If we knew the realm, we could use it instead of ``None``.
    password_mgr.add_password(None, url, uid, pcode)
    handler = urllib2.HTTPBasicAuthHandler(password_mgr)
    class Mopener(URLopener): version = "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U;
Windows NT 5.1; it; rv:1.8.1.11) Gecko/20071127 Firefox/2.0.0.11"

    opener = Mopener()

# create "opener" (OpenerDirector instance)

    opener = urllib2.build_opener(handler)
    opener.addheaders = [('User-agent', 'Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U;
Windows NT 5.1; it; rv:1.8.1.11) Gecko/20071127 Firefox/2.0.0.11')]

    opener.version = "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; 
Windows NT 5.1; it; rv:
1.8.1.11) Gecko/20071127 Firefox/2.0.0.11"

    print opener.version
# timeout in seconds
    timeout = 10
    socket.setdefaulttimeout(timeout)

# Install the opener all calls to urllib2.urlopen use our opener.
    urllib2.install_opener(opener)

    try:
        response = opener.open(url)
        # "http://www.useragent.org/" tested okay!!!
        print"ok = 1"
    except:
        print "error 1"
#####################################################################################

output from the above:

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; it; rv:1.8.1.11) Gecko/
20071127 Firefox/2.0.0.11
error 1
Error code: 503
('Service Unavailable', 'The server cannot process the request due to
a high load')





From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Wed Aug  5 11:12:48 2009
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 08:12:48 -0700
Subject: Overlap in python
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Jay Bird wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I've been trying to figure out a simple algorithm on how to combine a
> list of parts that have 1D locations that overlap into a non-
> overlapping list.  For example, here would be my input:
> 
> part name   location
> a                  5-9
> b                  7-10
> c                  3-6
> d                  15-20
> e                  18-23
> 
> And here is what I need for an output:
> part name   location
> c.a.b            3-10
> d.e               15-23
> 
> I've tried various methods, which all fail.  Does anyone have an idea
> how to do this?
> 
> Thank you very much!
> Jay

I once had to do this for finding nested block structure.
The key for me was a sort order:  start, -final.

Having not seen it here (though I looked a bit), here's one:

class Entry(object):
     '''An entry is a name and range'''
     def __init__(self, line):
         self.name, startstop = line.split()
         start, stop = startstop.split('-')
         self.start, self.stop = int(start), int(stop)


def combined_ranges(lines):
     '''Create Entries in "magic order", and produce ranges.

     The "magic order" makes least element with longest range first, so
     overlaps show up in head order, with final tail first among equals.
     '''
     # Fill in our table (ignoring blank lines), then sort by magic order
     elements = [Entry(line) for line in lines if line.strip()]
     elements.sort(key=lambda e: (e.start, -e.stop))

     # Now produce resolved ranges.  Grab the start
     gen = iter(elements)
     first = gen.next()

     # For the remainder, combine or produce
     for v in gen:
         if v.start <= first.stop:
             # on overlap, merge in new element (may update stop)
             first.name += '.' + v.name
             if first.stop < v.stop:
                 first.stop = v.stop
         else:
             yield first
             first = v
     # And now produce the last element we covered
     yield first

# Demo:
sample = '''part name   location
     a                  5-9
     b                  7-10
     c                  3-6
     d                  15-20
     e                  18-23
     '''
source = iter(sample.split('\n')) # source of lines, opened file?
ignored = source.next() # discard heading
for interval in combined_range(source):
     print '%s  %s-%s' % (interval.name, interval.start, interval.stop)

Prints:
c.a.b  3-10
d.e  15-23


--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 11:17:34 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 08:17:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: trouble with complex numbers
References: <24821423.post@talk.nabble.com>
	 
	
	
	
Message-ID: <37b97967-ec2e-4c37-a4b9-46e56a6de7bd@p36g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 6, 1:18?am, Scott David Daniels  wrote:
> I think it explained in the complex math area, but basically EE types
> use j, math types use i for exactly the same thing. ?Since i is so
> frequently and index in CS, and there is another strong convention,
> why not let the EE types win?

That 'i' tends to be used as index did occur to me, I just wasn't
aware of what conventions were used in other contexts.

Thanks, Scott, much appreciated.


From rustompmody at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 11:18:05 2009
From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 20:48:05 +0530
Subject: error return from urlopen
Message-ID: 

When I direct urlopen to a non-existent server process I get

IOError: [Errno socket error] (10061, 'Connection refused')
The connection refused is as expected but whats the 10061?
strerror(10061) says 'unknown error'

So its like an errno but not quite an errno?
Can I find out more about this number like I can about errno?


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Wed Aug  5 11:18:55 2009
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 08:18:55 -0700
Subject: trouble with complex numbers
In-Reply-To: 
References: <24821423.post@talk.nabble.com>
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

alex23 wrote:
> Piet van Oostrum  wrote:
>> That should be z += 0j
> 
> Pardon my ignorance, but could anyone explain the rationale behind
> using 'j' to indicate the imaginary number (as opposed to the more
> intuitive 'i')?
> 
> (Not that I've had much call to use complex numbers but I'm
> curious....)
I think it explained in the complex math area, but basically EE types
use j, math types use i for exactly the same thing.  Since i is so
frequently and index in CS, and there is another strong convention,
why not let the EE types win?

--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From robin at reportlab.com  Wed Aug  5 11:18:55 2009
From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 16:18:55 +0100
Subject: Is it possible to produce spider plots?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A79A2DF.5010908@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>

dp_pearce wrote:
> I want to be able to use Python to produce Spider plots (perhaps you
> know them as radar plots or star plots). Does anyone know how to
> achieve this? Are there existing libraries?
> 
> Direction to any examples, especially those with tutorials, would be
> greatly appreciated.
> 
> Cheers,
......
reportlab has a spider chart in reportlab/graphics/charts/spider.py


-- 
Robin Becker


From marduk at letterboxes.org  Wed Aug  5 11:28:22 2009
From: marduk at letterboxes.org (Albert Hopkins)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 11:28:22 -0400
Subject: error return from urlopen
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <1249486102.23428.3.camel@brotherus.corp.redhat.com>

On Wed, 2009-08-05 at 20:48 +0530, Rustom Mody wrote:
> When I direct urlopen to a non-existent server process I get
> 
> IOError: [Errno socket error] (10061, 'Connection refused')
> The connection refused is as expected but whats the 10061?
> strerror(10061) says 'unknown error'
> 
> So its like an errno but not quite an errno?
> Can I find out more about this number like I can about errno?

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms740668(VS.85).aspx






From tim.arnold at sas.com  Wed Aug  5 11:30:07 2009
From: tim.arnold at sas.com (Tim Arnold)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 11:30:07 -0400
Subject: oNVDL validation docbook 5
Message-ID: 

Hi,
I'm using the oNVDL java validator for my DocBook 5.0 documents. Otherwise, 
my doc system is python. I wonder if there is any work going on (or perhaps 
something I'm missing) to use python to validate DocBook 5 (using the rng 
files bundled with the DocBook5 distribution)

I think the catch with DocBook 5 rng is that it has embedded Schematron 
rules, which makes lxml not able to validate. I'm out of my depth here, but 
that's what I've heard.

Anyway, I'd sure like to streamline this using python rather than a 
subprocess call out to that java validator. Any suggestions or pointers 
welcome.

thanks,
--Tim Arnold




From jkn_gg at nicorp.f9.co.uk  Wed Aug  5 11:33:48 2009
From: jkn_gg at nicorp.f9.co.uk (jkn)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 08:33:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is it possible to produce spider plots?
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 5, 3:51?pm, dp_pearce  wrote:
> I want to be able to use Python to produce Spider plots (perhaps you
> know them as radar plots or star plots). Does anyone know how to
> achieve this? Are there existing libraries?
>

The 'wxPython in Action' book has some simple example code which
produces this sort of graphic. If you are after a GUI application
rather than creating a paper copy it might be worth checking this out.


    HTH
    J^n


From tack at urandom.ca  Wed Aug  5 11:38:13 2009
From: tack at urandom.ca (Jason Tackaberry)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 11:38:13 -0400
Subject: intricated functions: how to share a variable
In-Reply-To: <7dt5rqF2crv46U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: 
	<7dt5rqF2crv46U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1249486693.7120.789.camel@arrakis>

On Wed, 2009-08-05 at 12:39 +0200, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> Another often used trick is to have a mutable container-object, like this:
> 
> def tutu():
>    a = [2]
> 
>    def toto():
>        a[0] = 4
>     
>    toto()

When you need a writable bound variable inside a closure, I prefer this
idiom:

        def foo():
           def bar():
              print bar.a
              bar.a = 4
              print bar.a
           bar.a = 2
           bar()

Python 3's nonlocal is obviously much more elegant.

Cheers,
Jason.



From joncle at googlemail.com  Wed Aug  5 11:39:07 2009
From: joncle at googlemail.com (Jon Clements)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 08:39:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Parsing Binary Structures; Is there a better way / What is your 
	way?
References: 
Message-ID: <9bca27b8-e71d-4b71-a792-d9ca7be18ab3@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On 5 Aug, 15:46, "Martin P. Hellwig" 
wrote:
> Hi List,
>
> On several occasions I have needed (and build) a parser that reads a
> binary piece of data with custom structure. For example (bogus one):
>
> BE
> +---------+---------+-------------+-------------+------+--------+
> | Version | Command | Instruction | Data Length | Data | Filler |
> +---------+---------+-------------+-------------+------+--------+
> Version: 6 bits
> Command: 4 bits
> Instruction: 5 bits
> Data Length: 5 bits
> Data: 0-31 bits
> Filler: filling 0 bits to make the packet dividable by 8
>
> what I usually do is read the packet in binary mode, convert the output
> to a concatenated 'binary string'(i.e. '0101011000110') and then use
> slice indeces to get the right data portions.
> Depending on what I need to do with these portions I convert them to
> whatever is handy (usually an integer).
>
> This works out fine for me. Most of the time I also put the ASCII art
> diagram of this 'protocol' as a comment in the code, making it more
> readable/understandable.
>
> Though there are a couple of things that bothers me with my approach:
> - This seems such a general problem that I think that there must be
> already a general pythonic solution.
> - Using a string for binary representation takes at least 8 times more
> memory for the packet than strictly necessary.
> - Seems to need a lot of prep work before doing the actual parsing.
>
> Any suggestion is greatly appreciated.
>
> --
> MPHhttp://blog.dcuktec.com
> 'If consumed, best digested with added seasoning to own preference.'

IIRC (and I have my doubts) the BitVector module may be of use, but
it's been about 3 years since I had to look at it. I think it used the
C equiv. of short ints to do its work. Otherwise, maybe the array
module, the struct module or even possibly ctypes.

Not much use, but might give a few pointers.

Jon.


From kosta.koeman at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 11:39:15 2009
From: kosta.koeman at gmail.com (Kosta)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 08:39:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Using Python to automate builds
References: <84d9ae10-3aee-40a8-97ac-05799da0de64@f18g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<200908050956.33995.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
	<5b8d13220908050508n32f05bep4c275cec14914588@mail.gmail.com> 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 5, 7:29?am, Hendrik van Rooyen  wrote:
> On Wednesday 05 August 2009 14:08:18 David Cournapeau wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 4:56 PM, Hendrik van
>
> > Rooyen wrote:
> > > On Tuesday 04 August 2009 21:13:10 Kosta wrote:
> > >> I am a Python newbie, tasked with automating (researching) building
> > >> Windows drivers using the WDK build environment. ?I've been looking
> > >> into Python for this (instead of writing a bunch of batch files).
>
> > > Why do you not use make and a makefile - it was designed to
> > > do exactly this.
>
> > Because make is a pain on windows (lack of a proper shell) ?
>
> Well, you could always use Dosbox - I am doing exactly that
> on Linux to be able to run some old DOS based assembler
> tools. ?It will run on windows too, they claim.
>
> And it is very simple to use too - no fancy fidgeting, all you have
> to do is to point it at a directory that becomes your "C" drive.
>
> Bit slow - but hey, nobody's perfect.
>
> - Hendrik

Sorry for not being more clear.  The WDK provides build.exe, a utility
that calls the compiler & linker with the approprite switches.  In
essence, it manages all the nmake details away from the developer.
For some, this is a bad thing in terms of loss of control.  But in
reality, this is a great thing, as this is the way Microsoft builds
Windows.  As far as I can tell, the WDK build environment is dervied
from the Microsoft Windows build environment, which is great for
developing kernel components in the similar enviornment in which
Microsoft builds its OS.  It is a requirement to use the WDK.

Setenv.bat sets up the path and other environment variables build.exe
needs to compile and link (and even binplace) its utilities.  So
building itself is not the issue.  The problem is that if I call
setenv.bat from Python and then build.exe, but the modifications to
the path (and other environment settings) are not seen by Python, so
the attempt to build without a specified path fails.

Now I can open up a build window that targets a build type (check or
release), an architecture target (x86 or x64) and an OS target (which
will be Windows Xp except if in the future, the driver(s) uses some
infrastructure introduced in later versions of WDM.

However, what I was hoping to do was to have a python script that
would allow me to build 4 versions of the driver: x86 check, x86
release, x64 check, and x64 release.  I may have to resort to using
batch files, but I was hoping as much as possible to use Python.

Thanks,
Kosta


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Aug  5 11:52:08 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 16:52:08 +0100
Subject: Overlap in python
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<4a7892c2$0$2297$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>
	
Message-ID: 

Jay Bird wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I wanted to thank you all for your help and *excellent* discussion.  I
> was able to utilize and embed the script by Grigor Lingl in the 6th
> post of this discussion to get my program to work very quickly (I had
> to do about 20 comparisons per data bin, with over 40K bins in
> total).  I am involved in genomic analysis research and this problem
> comes up a lot and I was surprised to not have been able to find a
> clear way to solve it.  I will also look through all the tips in this
> thread, I have a feeling they may come in handy for future use!
> 
> Thank you again,
> Jay
I don't know if this is relevant, but http://planet.python.org/ has an 
entry dated this morning which points here 
http://www.logarithmic.net/pfh/blog/01249470842.

HTH.

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From tack at urandom.ca  Wed Aug  5 11:53:56 2009
From: tack at urandom.ca (Jason Tackaberry)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 11:53:56 -0400
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <1249487636.7120.798.camel@arrakis>

On Wed, 2009-08-05 at 16:43 +0200, Michael Str?der wrote:
> These both expressions are equivalent but which is faster or should be used
> for any reason?
>
> u = unicode(s,'utf-8')
> 
> u = s.decode('utf-8') # looks nicer

It is sometimes non-obvious which constructs are faster than others in
Python.  I also regularly have these questions, but it's pretty easy to
run quick (albeit naive) benchmarks to see.

The first thing to try is to have a look at the bytecode for each:

        >>> import dis
        >>> dis.dis(lambda s: s.decode('utf-8'))
          1           0 LOAD_FAST                0 (s)
                      3 LOAD_ATTR                0 (decode)
                      6 LOAD_CONST               0 ('utf-8')
                      9 CALL_FUNCTION            1
                     12 RETURN_VALUE        
        >>> dis.dis(lambda s: unicode(s, 'utf-8'))
          1           0 LOAD_GLOBAL              0 (unicode)
                      3 LOAD_FAST                0 (s)
                      6 LOAD_CONST               0 ('utf-8')
                      9 CALL_FUNCTION            2
                     12 RETURN_VALUE      

The presence of LOAD_ATTR in the first form hints that this is probably
going to be slower.   Next, actually try it:

        >>> import timeit
        >>> timeit.timeit('"foobarbaz".decode("utf-8")')
        1.698289155960083
        >>> timeit.timeit('unicode("foobarbaz", "utf-8")')
        0.53305888175964355

So indeed, uncode(s, 'utf-8') is faster by a fair margin.

On the other hand, unless you need to do this in a tight loop several
tens of thousands of times, I'd prefer the slower form s.decode('utf-8')
because it's, as you pointed out, cleaner and more readable code.

Cheers,
Jason.



From J.Fine at open.ac.uk  Wed Aug  5 12:03:13 2009
From: J.Fine at open.ac.uk (Jonathan Fine)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 17:03:13 +0100
Subject: Do anyone here use Python *embedded* in a database?
In-Reply-To: <767b6862-065f-480a-82f5-ed3aa35bf84d@n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<767b6862-065f-480a-82f5-ed3aa35bf84d@n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Jon Clements wrote:
> On 5 Aug, 13:17, Jonathan Fine  wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>> I'm writing a talk that compares embed and extend, and wondered if
>> anyone here ever used the Python *embedded* in a database server.
>>      http://twistedmatrix.com/users/glyph/rant/extendit.html
>>
>> Web frameworks (such as Django) use extend, to import an extension
>> module that makes a connection to a database.
>>
>> If you have used embed, you might have consulted a page such as:
>>      http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.3/interactive/plpython-funcs.html
>>
>> --
>> Jonathan
> 
> Yup, have used plpythonu within postgres without too many problems.
> Although I do recall once that using the CSV module to load and filter
> external data, did consume a massive amount of memory. Even though the
> entire procedure was iterator based -- never did work out if it was
> postgres caching, or some other weird stuff. [That was about 2 years
> ago though]

Thanks, Jon, for that.

-- 
Jonathan


From lawrencew00 at hotmail.com  Wed Aug  5 12:07:39 2009
From: lawrencew00 at hotmail.com (Lawrence Wong)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 16:07:39 +0000
Subject: os.system in a service
Message-ID: 


Hi,

I wrote a program which runs a .bat file using os.system like: 'os.system(pathToBatFile)' and everything was good.  Then I decided to turn my program into a service as opposed to being run with the command prompt showing.  When my program became a service, I noticed that the os.system command to run my .bat file was no longer working.  By 'not working' I mean no exception is thrown, but it was as if the line with os.system(pathToBatFile) did not exist.  I was wondering why this is and if there is a way to fix this or what an alternative to using os.system to run my .bat file was?

LW . . . Lawrence
_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive email from all of your webmail accounts.
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9671356
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From rays at blue-cove.com  Wed Aug  5 12:21:35 2009
From: rays at blue-cove.com (RayS)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 09:21:35 -0700
Subject: Cypress FX2 - py libusb code?
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20090804224315.01c22b60@pop-server.san.rr.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20090805091843.01c76cc8@blue-cove.com>

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"""
To run the single C file USB bulk read program properly,
you must provide a source of data to the CY7C68013 FIFO bus, 
like the Simple dual channel A/D system, otherwise the reading 
call will time out in one second, you will get a bunch of zeros, 
and the ninth status number will be something negative instead of 512. 
"""

import sys
import os
import time
import usb


def PrintDevInfo(dev):
    """Print device information."""
    print "Device:", dev.filename
    print "  Device class:",dev.deviceClass
    print "  Device sub class:",dev.deviceSubClass
    print "  Device protocol:",dev.deviceProtocol
    print "  Max packet size:",dev.maxPacketSize
    print "  idVendor:",dev.idVendor
    print "  idProduct:",dev.idProduct
    print "  Device Version:",dev.deviceVersion
    print "  Device SerialNumber:",dev.iSerialNumber

    for config in dev.configurations:
        print "  Configuration:", config.value
        print "    Total length:", config.totalLength
        print "    selfPowered:", config.selfPowered
        print "    remoteWakeup:", config.remoteWakeup
        print "    maxPower:", config.maxPower
        for intf in config.interfaces:
            print "    Interface:",intf[0].interfaceNumber
            for alt in intf:
                print "    Alternate Setting:",alt.alternateSetting
                print "      Interface class:",alt.interfaceClass
                print "      Interface sub class:",alt.interfaceSubClass
                print "      Interface protocol:",alt.interfaceProtocol
                for ep in alt.endpoints:
                    print "      Endpoint:",hex(ep.address)
                    print "        Type:",ep.type
                    print "        Max packet size:",ep.maxPacketSize
                    print "        Interval:",ep.interval


firmware = 	[0x90, 0xE6, 0x0B, 0x74, 0x03, 0xF0,	##REVCTL = 0x03
		0x90, 0xE6, 0x04, 0x74, 0x80, 0xF0,	##FIFORESET = 0x80
		0x74, 0x08, 0xF0,				##FIFORESET = 0x08
		0xE4, 0xF0,						##FIFORESET = 0x00
		0x90, 0xE6, 0x01, 0x74, 0xCB, 0xF0,	##IFCONFIG = 0xCB
		0x90, 0xE6, 0x1B, 0x74, 0x0D, 0xF0,	##EP8FIFOCFG = 0x0D
		#0x90, 0xE6, 0x09, 0x74, 0x10, 0xF0,	##FIFOPINPOLAR = 0x10   TRUST!!!
		0x80, 0xFE]				
##while (1) {}
reset = 0x01
er = []
endpoint = 8

# find all of the USB busses
busses = usb.busses()
#print busses
# Find one device
rdev = None
for bus in busses:
    for dev in bus.devices:
        if dev.idVendor == 0x04B4 and dev.idProduct == 0x8613:
            rdev = dev
if rdev==None:
	print "Could not find a CY7C68013\ndev.idVendor == 0x04B4 and dev.idProduct == 0x8613"
	sys.exit()
else:
	dev = rdev
#PrintDevInfo(dev)
endpoint=8
current_handle = dev.open()

requestType = 0x40
request = 0xa0
#buffer = ''.zfill(4096)
value=0
index=0
timeout=1000
er.append(('RESET', current_handle.controlMsg(requestType, request, reset, value, index, timeout) ))##RESET

time.sleep(0.1)

for i in range(len(firmware)):
	#er.append(('ctrlMsg', i,  current_handle.controlMsg(0x40, 0xa0, firmware[i], value=i, index=0)))
	er.append(('ctrlMsg', i,  len(current_handle.controlMsg(0x40, 0xa0, firmware[i], value=i, index=0))))
er.append(('UNRESET', current_handle.controlMsg(requestType, request, reset+1, value, index, timeout))) ##UNRESET

time.sleep(0.1)

# we know that there's one config, one interface, and one endpoint
conf = dev.configurations[0]
er.append(( "confs", len(dev.configurations)))
er.append(conf.interfaces.count(0))#, conf.interfaces.index(1)
iface = conf.interfaces[0][1]
er.append( ("ifaces[0]", len(conf.interfaces[0])))
endpoint = iface.endpoints[1]
er.append(( "endpoints", len(iface.endpoints)))
er.append(( "iin", iface.interfaceNumber))
er.append( current_handle.setConfiguration(conf))

er.append( current_handle.claimInterface(iface))
er.append( current_handle.setAltInterface(iface))
try:
	er.append( current_handle.bulkRead(endpoint.address, 512, 1000))
except usb.USBError, e:
	print '  bulkRead error: ', e.args
	print '    return data:'
	for e in er: print '    ', e
	PrintDevInfo(dev)
	sys.exit()
for i in range(512):
	print " %02x " % buffer[i],
current_handle.releaseInterface(0)
dev.close()
print "\n status: ", er[-1]

From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Aug  5 12:30:24 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 17:30:24 +0100
Subject: Is it possible to produce spider plots?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

dp_pearce wrote:
> I want to be able to use Python to produce Spider plots (perhaps you
> know them as radar plots or star plots). Does anyone know how to
> achieve this? Are there existing libraries?
> 
> Direction to any examples, especially those with tutorials, would be
> greatly appreciated.
> 
> Cheers,
> Dan
> 
> http://www.answers.com/topic/spider-plot
How about 
http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/examples/api/radar_chart.html?highlight=spider

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From tim.arnold at sas.com  Wed Aug  5 12:34:18 2009
From: tim.arnold at sas.com (Tim Arnold)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 12:34:18 -0400
Subject: Using Python to automate builds
References: <84d9ae10-3aee-40a8-97ac-05799da0de64@f18g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 


"Kosta"  wrote in message 
news:84d9ae10-3aee-40a8-97ac-05799da0de64 at f18g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>I am a Python newbie, tasked with automating (researching) building
> Windows drivers using the WDK build environment.  I've been looking
> into Python for this (instead of writing a bunch of batch files).
>
> What I would like to do, is to open a cmd window, and start a Python
> script.  This script would then (based upon input arguments), build
> different flavors of the driver (fre, chk, x86, x64) and do some post
> processing (create cat files, sign, etc.).
>
> I was hoping to take advantage as much as possible of exisiting
> infrastructure from the WDK.  I am able to call setenv.bat and provide
> all the input parameters.  One of the things setenv.bat does is change
> the path environment variable.  However, this is not captured by
> Python.  I could duplicate the functionality, but I'd rather not.  Is
> there a way to capture all enviroment variable changes being made by a
> batch file from Python?
>
> Thanks!

It sounds like you know what you're doing. I just wanted to point out that 
you can specify environment dictionaries in the subprocess.Popen module. You 
can set a different dictionary for each call you make to the system. Not 
sure if that helps,
--Tim




From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Wed Aug  5 13:05:08 2009
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 18:05:08 +0100
Subject: Parsing Binary Structures; Is there a better way / What is your
	way?
In-Reply-To: <9bca27b8-e71d-4b71-a792-d9ca7be18ab3@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<9bca27b8-e71d-4b71-a792-d9ca7be18ab3@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Jon Clements wrote:

> IIRC (and I have my doubts) the BitVector module may be of use, but
> it's been about 3 years since I had to look at it. I think it used the
> C equiv. of short ints to do its work. Otherwise, maybe the array
> module, the struct module or even possibly ctypes.
> 
> Not much use, but might give a few pointers.
> 
> Jon.

I tried struct before (it seemed logical) but it didn't really do what I 
expected:
 >>> import struct
 >>> struct.unpack('?','x')
(True,)

I expected a list like  (False, True, True, True, True, False, False, 
False). But it is (actually I hope) just an error of my side, so if 
somebody knows how to achieve what I want, with this module, please 
enlighten me :-)

The array module doesn't seem to have an option for boolean values.

BitVector does look very promising, but after peeking in the source it 
does more or less the same as what I do with converting back and forth 
of 'bitstrings'.

I haven't thought about using ctypes for this, excellent suggestion!
Thank you for your feedback.

-- 
MPH
http://blog.dcuktec.com
'If consumed, best digested with added seasoning to own preference.'


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Aug  5 13:16:54 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 19:16:54 +0200
Subject: access string data from within cython
Message-ID: <7dtt46F2e5osvU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Hi,

I'm trying to wrap a C-API which has a call that takes a void* and a size_t
as arguments.

void foo(void *data, size_t length)


The wrapper is supposed to be called with a python (byte)string instance,
which might contain more than one '\0'-character.

So how do I access the raw data of a string? I tried looking into the
buffer-protocol, but to be honest - that's beyond me, I don't see where
that is actually giving me access to the real data.

Diez


From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Wed Aug  5 13:17:29 2009
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (Bearophile)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 10:17:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Parsing Binary Structures; Is there a better way / What is your 
	way?
References: 
Message-ID: <50e27473-926b-458a-84f2-927ad02a0ed8@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

Martin P. Hellwig:
> On several occasions I have needed (and build) a parser that reads a
> binary piece of data with custom structure. For example (bogus one):
>
> BE
> +---------+---------+-------------+-------------+------+--------+
> | Version | Command | Instruction | Data Length | Data | Filler |
> +---------+---------+-------------+-------------+------+--------+
> Version: 6 bits
> Command: 4 bits
> Instruction: 5 bits
> Data Length: 5 bits
> Data: 0-31 bits
> Filler: filling 0 bits to make the packet dividable by 8

Have you tried Hachoir? (I think its name may be changed to Fusil, I
don't know).

Bye,
bearophile


From masklinn at masklinn.net  Wed Aug  5 13:22:42 2009
From: masklinn at masklinn.net (Masklinn)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 19:22:42 +0200
Subject: Parsing Binary Structures;
	Is there a better way / What is your way?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <934952CA-AC59-415C-A5D8-AEF74A0033FD@masklinn.net>

On 5 Aug 2009, at 16:46 , Martin P. Hellwig wrote:
> Hi List,
>
> On several occasions I have needed (and build) a parser that reads a  
> binary piece of data with custom structure. For example (bogus one):
>
> BE
> +---------+---------+-------------+-------------+------+--------+
> | Version | Command | Instruction | Data Length | Data | Filler |
> +---------+---------+-------------+-------------+------+--------+
> Version: 6 bits
> Command: 4 bits
> Instruction: 5 bits
> Data Length: 5 bits
> Data: 0-31 bits
> Filler: filling 0 bits to make the packet dividable by 8
>
> what I usually do is read the packet in binary mode, convert the  
> output to a concatenated 'binary string'(i.e. '0101011000110') and  
> then use slice indeces to get the right data portions.
> Depending on what I need to do with these portions I convert them to  
> whatever is handy (usually an integer).
>
> This works out fine for me. Most of the time I also put the ASCII  
> art diagram of this 'protocol' as a comment in the code, making it  
> more readable/understandable.
>
> Though there are a couple of things that bothers me with my approach:
> - This seems such a general problem that I think that there must be  
> already a general pythonic solution.
> - Using a string for binary representation takes at least 8 times  
> more memory for the packet than strictly necessary.
> - Seems to need a lot of prep work before doing the actual parsing.
>
> Any suggestion is greatly appreciated.
The gold standard for binary parsing (and serialization) is probably  
Erlang's bit syntax, but as far as Python goes you might be interested  
by Hachoir (http://hachoir.org/ but it seems down right now).

It's not going to match your second point, but it can probably help  
with the rest (caveat: I haven't used hachoir personally).


From masklinn at masklinn.net  Wed Aug  5 13:26:53 2009
From: masklinn at masklinn.net (Masklinn)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 19:26:53 +0200
Subject: Parsing Binary Structures;
	Is there a better way / What is your  way?
In-Reply-To: <50e27473-926b-458a-84f2-927ad02a0ed8@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<50e27473-926b-458a-84f2-927ad02a0ed8@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7120B941-0C12-47ED-9505-08914EBD9CFB@masklinn.net>

On 5 Aug 2009, at 19:17 , Bearophile wrote:
> Have you tried Hachoir? (I think its name may be changed to Fusil, I
> don't know).
Name hasn't been changed (I think fusil is a subproject, something  
like that) on the other hand the hachoir.org site is dead.

But apparently Hachoir was moved to bitbucket (http://bitbucket.org/haypo/hachoir/wiki/Home 
) just in time so?

From mensanator at aol.com  Wed Aug  5 13:33:07 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 10:33:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Turtle Graphics are incompatible with gmpy
References: 
	<0002b5d3$0$2970$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4a7936a4$0$1552$91cee783@newsreader03.highway.telekom.at>
Message-ID: 

> It didn't form 2.5 to 2.6 (at least not intentionally). But with the
> indroduction of the TurtleScreen class and the Screen class/object
> (singleton) a few of the turtle methods were also implemented as screen
> methods and as turtle methods declared deprecated (see docs of Python
> 2.6). These deprecated turtle methods do not occur as turtle methods any
> more in Python 3.x.

More info.

Yes, there is no tracer attribute...when the object is created.

But watch this (Python 3.1):

>>> import turtle
>>> tooter = turtle.Turtle()
>>> tooter.tracer
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
    tooter.tracer
AttributeError: 'Turtle' object has no attribute 'tracer'
>>> tooter.hideturtle()
>>> tooter.speed('fast')
>>> turtle.update()
>>> turtle.tracer


Now, after setting hide, speed, update, a tracer exists.
Is that supposed to happen? That explains why there was no error
when I set the turtle attribute instead of the screen attribute.
And, of course, setting the turtle attribute accomplishes nothing,
as actual tracing is controlled by the screen attribute as you say.

>
> Among them is the tracer method, which in fact does not control single
> turtle objects but all the turtles on a given screen.
>
> So there is an icompatibility beween 2.6 and 3.x
>
> But as far as I have understood, this doesn't concern the problem
> reported by mensator.

Only that the problem is hidden when tracing is off, as the nhops
variable is never evaluated when trace is off.

>
> Regards,
> Gregor


From gregor.lingl at aon.at  Wed Aug  5 13:56:50 2009
From: gregor.lingl at aon.at (Gregor Lingl)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 19:56:50 +0200
Subject: Turtle Graphics are incompatible with gmpy
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<0002b5d3$0$2970$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4a7936a4$0$1552$91cee783@newsreader03.highway.telekom.at>
	
Message-ID: <4A79C7E2.3000406@aon.at>

Mensanator schrieb:
>> It didn't form 2.5 to 2.6 (at least not intentionally). But with the
>> indroduction of the TurtleScreen class and the Screen class/object
>> (singleton) a few of the turtle methods were also implemented as screen
>> methods and as turtle methods declared deprecated (see docs of Python
>> 2.6). These deprecated turtle methods do not occur as turtle methods any
>> more in Python 3.x.
> 
> More info.
> 
> Yes, there is no tracer attribute...when the object is created.
> 
> But watch this (Python 3.1):
> 
>>>> import turtle
>>>> tooter = turtle.Turtle()
>>>> tooter.tracer
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "", line 1, in 
>     tooter.tracer
> AttributeError: 'Turtle' object has no attribute 'tracer'
>>>> tooter.hideturtle()
>>>> tooter.speed('fast')
>>>> turtle.update()
>>>> turtle.tracer
> 
> 
> Now, after setting hide, speed, update, a tracer exists.

No,

 >>> import turtle
 >>> turtle.tracer

 >>> help(turtle.tracer)
Help on function tracer in module turtle:

tracer(n=None, delay=None)
     Turns turtle animation on/off and set delay for update drawings.

     Optional arguments:
     n -- nonnegative  integer
     delay -- nonnegative  integer

     If n is given, only each n-th regular screen update is really 
performed.
     (Can be used to accelerate the drawing of complex graphics.)
     Second arguments sets delay value.)

     Example:
     >>> tracer(8, 25)
     >>> dist = 2
     >>> for i in range(200):
             fd(dist)
             rt(90)
             dist += 2

 >>>

The reason for this is, that the turtle module (the new one as well as 
the old one) has a vers special design: The methods of class Turtle are 
also available as functions (which are in fact methods calls of an 
anonymous turtle). The same holds for the methods of TurtleScreen.

The intention behind this design is that you can use the module in an 
OOP way as well as with procedural programming (especially for beginners).

When using objects I normally use

from turtle import Turtle, Screen
screen = Screen()
# that creates  singleton object, the screen the turtle acts on
and I create as many turtles as I need from the Turtle class

So turtle.tracer() doesn't make sense anymore


> Is that supposed to happen? That explains why there was no error
> when I set the turtle attribute instead of the screen attribute.

You do not 'set the turtle attribute', you call the tracer function of 
the turtle module

> And, of course, setting the turtle attribute accomplishes nothing,
> as actual tracing is controlled by the screen attribute as you say.
> 
>> Among them is the tracer method, which in fact does not control single
>> turtle objects but all the turtles on a given screen.
>>
>> So there is an icompatibility beween 2.6 and 3.x
>>
>> But as far as I have understood, this doesn't concern the problem
>> reported by mensator.
> 
> Only that the problem is hidden when tracing is off, as the nhops
> variable is never evaluated when trace is off.

Nevertheless I'd like to see a working Python 2.5 version of your script.

Regards,
Gregor


From http  Wed Aug  5 14:12:05 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 05 Aug 2009 11:12:05 -0700
Subject: Parsing Binary Structures;
	Is there a better way / What is your way?
References: 
Message-ID: <7x3a86gmfe.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Martin P. Hellwig"  writes:
> what I usually do is read the packet in binary mode, convert the
> output to a concatenated 'binary string'(i.e. '0101011000110') and

Something wrong with reading the data words as an integer and using
old fashioned shifts and masks to get at the bit fields?


From 1x7y2z9 at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 14:12:45 2009
From: 1x7y2z9 at gmail.com (1x7y2z9)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 11:12:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

unicode() has LOAD_GLOBAL which s.decode() does not.  Is it generally
the case that LOAD_ATTR is slower than LOAD_GLOBAL that lead to your
intuition that the former would probably be slower?  Or some other
intuition?
Of course, the results from timeit are a different thing - I ask about
the intuition in the disassembler output.
Thanks.

>
> The presence of LOAD_ATTR in the first form hints that this is probably
> going to be slower. ? Next, actually try it:
>


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Wed Aug  5 14:20:47 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 20:20:47 +0200
Subject: Special chars with HTMLParser
References: <5c6941f8-c53e-4518-8ce5-83be64689307@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
	<69835fa3-c6a0-44d3-bba2-5e3117102590@k30g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Fafounet  (F) wrote:

>F> Thank you, now I can get the correct character.
>F> Now when I have the string abécd I can get ab then ? thanks to
>F> your function and then cd. But how is it possible to know that cd is
>F> still the same word ?

That depends on your definition of `word'. And that is
language-dependent. 

What you normally do is collect the text in a (unicode) string variable.
This happens in handle_data, handle_charref and handle_entityref.
Then you check that the previously collected stuff was a word (e.g.
consisting of Unicode letters), and that the new stuff also consists of
letters. If your language has additional word constituents like - or '
you have to add this.

You can do this with unicodedata.category or with a regular
expression. If your locale is correct \w in a regular expression may be
helpful. 
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From dp_pearce at hotmail.com  Wed Aug  5 14:21:50 2009
From: dp_pearce at hotmail.com (Devon_Dan)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 11:21:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is it possible to produce spider plots?
References: 
	
Message-ID: <2481d12e-6af9-4dbb-991d-fb636c3b6831@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>


> reportlab has a spider chart in reportlab/graphics/charts/spider.py

> How about
> http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/examples/api/radar_chart.html?highl...

Both exactly what I was after. Thanks very much.

> The 'wxPython in Action' book has some simple example code which
> produces this sort of graphic. If you are after a GUI application
> rather than creating a paper copy it might be worth checking this out.

Thanks for this one jkn. I actually have this book and went through it
looking to see if it had an answer before posting. Completely missed
it! Clearly I need to RTFM more closely next time.


From philip at semanchuk.com  Wed Aug  5 14:25:27 2009
From: philip at semanchuk.com (Philip Semanchuk)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 14:25:27 -0400
Subject: access string data from within cython
In-Reply-To: <7dtt46F2e5osvU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: <7dtt46F2e5osvU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: 


On Aug 5, 2009, at 1:16 PM, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm trying to wrap a C-API which has a call that takes a void* and a  
> size_t
> as arguments.
>
> void foo(void *data, size_t length)
>
>
> The wrapper is supposed to be called with a python (byte)string  
> instance,
> which might contain more than one '\0'-character.
>
> So how do I access the raw data of a string? I tried looking into the
> buffer-protocol, but to be honest - that's beyond me, I don't see  
> where
> that is actually giving me access to the real data.

Hi Diez,
Would ctypes.create_string_buffer() work for you?


bye
P


From jeremy.cowles at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 14:31:38 2009
From: jeremy.cowles at gmail.com (Jeremy Cowles)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 11:31:38 -0700
Subject: Install setup tools for 2.6
Message-ID: <373cf0740908051131gacaf77apba48fa40e929f491@mail.gmail.com>

Ok, I feel like this is a really stupid question, but how do you install
setup tools for Python 2.6 under windows?
The only format is .egg which requires setup tools to install, doesn't it?

Thanks,
Jeremy
-------------- next part --------------
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From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Wed Aug  5 14:46:12 2009
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 19:46:12 +0100
Subject: Parsing Binary Structures; Is there a better way / What is your
	way?
In-Reply-To: <7x3a86gmfe.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: 
	<7x3a86gmfe.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: 

Paul Rubin wrote:
> "Martin P. Hellwig"  writes:
>> what I usually do is read the packet in binary mode, convert the
>> output to a concatenated 'binary string'(i.e. '0101011000110') and
> 
> Something wrong with reading the data words as an integer and using
> old fashioned shifts and masks to get at the bit fields?

No not at all of course, I just found it more readable to slice it 
instead of shifting and masking; i.e. if the ASCII art schematics of the 
protocol are included as a comment it is almost an 1 to 1  implementation.

Is there an advantage using shifts and masks over my kitchen type solution?

-- 
MPH
http://blog.dcuktec.com
'If consumed, best digested with added seasoning to own preference.'


From ihatespam at hotmail.com  Wed Aug  5 14:47:58 2009
From: ihatespam at hotmail.com (Just Another Victim of the Ambient Morality)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 14:47:58 -0400
Subject: Confessions of a Python fanboy
References: <008e82e8$0$9756$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com><4a72d7cf$0$25239$426a34cc@news.free.fr><008eef29$0$9756$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com><4a77eb69$0$22600$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	
Message-ID: 


"Steven D'Aprano"  wrote in message 
news:pan.2009.08.04.09.28.49 at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au...
> On Tue, 04 Aug 2009 10:03:53 +0200, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
>
>>> Disadvantages: your code is filled with line noise. It's an arbitrary
>>> choice between @@ meaning instance attribute and @@ meaning class
>>> attribute -- there's no logical reason for choosing one over the other,
>>> so you have to memorise which is which. It's easy to get it wrong.
>>
>> So far that's something I have no difficulty living with.
>
> I don't like arbitrary symbols. Most people don't -- that's why "line
> noise" is unpopular. It's hard to read, hard to write, hard to maintain,
> and hard to talk about. The more line-noise, the worse the language.

    It's not "line noise" if it conveys information...


> Of course, *ultimately* every symbol is arbitrary. There's no reason why
> "2" should mean the integer two, or "list" should mean a sequence type,
> but some symbols have such a long history, or have some other connection
> (say, with human languages), that the arbitrariness is lost. For
> instance, "+" is the obvious, non-arbitrary choice for the addition
> operator in any programming language using Latin symbols, and probably
> any programming language on Earth. (Not the *only* choice, but the
> obvious one.)
>
> I have a similar dislike for decorator syntax, because "@" ("at" in
> English) has nothing to do with decorations. It's an arbitrary symbol.
> One might argue that "$" would have been a more logical choice, because
> we turn numerals into currency by decorating it with a $ sign. (At least
> in the US, Canada, Australia, and a few other countries.) I use
> decorators all the time, and they are a fantastic invention, but the
> arbitrariness of the @ syntax is a negative. Oh well, one negative out of
> a whole lot of positives isn't too bad.

    You can think of "@" as describing something being "at" the instance or 
the class.  "$" is totally arbitrary to me 'cause I don't thnk of my code as 
currency...


> At least I only have to deal with *one* such arbitrary symbol that needs
> memorizing. There's no need to distinguish between @@function_decorator
> and @class_decorator (or should it be the other way around?). Similarly,
> Python's choice of syntax for attributes is consistent: object.attribute
> works for everything, whether object is a class, an instance, a module,
> and whether attribute is callable or not. You can even use it on ints,
> provided you are clever about it:

    You can think of "@" as being at an instance or "@@" to be more 
emphatically (as the Japanese do in their language) integrated with a class, 
being available to all instances... or you can simply understand that 
instance vairables are more common than class variables so the shorter 
notation is used for the more common case...
    You want to talk about arbitrariness?  Why is len() a function you pass 
objects into while objects can have methods that describe themselves to you? 
At least Ruby defines operators using the actual name of the operator 
instead of you having to remember an arbitrary magic incantation that 
corresponds to the operator...

class Test
    attr_reader :data

    def initialize(data)
        @data = data
    end

    # This is the operator part...
    def + right
        Test.new @data + right.data
    end
end


>>>>> Somebody who knows more Ruby than me should try writing the Zen of
>>>>> Ruby. Something like:
>>>> (snip childish parody of Python Zen)
>>>>
>>>> Steven, is that any useful ?
>>>
>>> It made me feel good.
>>
>> Why ???
>>
>> You don't like Ruby ? Fine, don't use it. Period. I can't see the point
>> of all these pissing contests.
>
> Criticism of a language is a pissing contest?
>
> Yeah, okay, I was a tad dismissive. I un-apologetically jump to strong
> impressions about languages based on minimal use -- but I'm also willing
> to change my mind. Ruby certainly looks to me like it has some nice
> features. Syntax that looks like Perl isn't one of them though.

    Yeah, that would be the "pissing contest" part.
    You could simply have gone to the Ruby newsgroup and posted some 
criticisms to see what was behind those decisions.  However, that would have 
avoided the pissing contest and perhaps you wanted one...


>>> Just because Smalltalk had a particular (mis?)feature
>>
>> You can drop the 'mis' part IMHO. The point of code blocks in Smalltalk
>> is that once you have something as powerful as the message+code blocks
>> combo, you just don't need any other 'special form' for control flow.
>
> Well, maybe, but remember, programming languages are only partly for
> communication to the compiler. They also have the requirement to
> communicate with human programmers as well, and that's even more
> important, because
>
> (1) humans spent a lot more time working with code than compilers do;
>
> (2) human programmers charge much more money than compilers do;
>
> (3) and you can modify the compiler to suit human needs much more easily
> than you can modify programmers to suit the compiler's needs.
>
> So I'd ask, does Smalltalk's message passing model match the way human
> beings think? If not, then that's a good sign it might be a misfeature.

    I think this is overstated.  Not all humans think in exactly the same 
way so it's very presumptuous.  It also ignores our intellect.  We can 
change the way we think and we can use this versatility to our advantage. 
We can increase our productivity in certain tasks by changing the way we 
think to some other paradigm that better serves a given purpose...


>>> doesn't mean that
>>> other languages should copy it.
>>
>> Nope. But OTHO, Python is famous for all the features it copied from
>> other languages !-)
>
> Absolutely! There's nothing wrong with copying *good* features :)

    The trick, of course, is figuring out which features are good! 




From http  Wed Aug  5 14:51:06 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 05 Aug 2009 11:51:06 -0700
Subject: Parsing Binary Structures;
	Is there a better way / What is your way?
References: 
	<7x3a86gmfe.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
Message-ID: <7xr5vqw0v9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

"Martin P. Hellwig"  writes:
> Is there an advantage using shifts and masks over my kitchen type solution?

Weren't you complaining about the 8-to-1 expansion from turning each bit
to an ascii char?


From gdamjan at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 15:05:30 2009
From: gdamjan at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JTQsNC80ZjQsNC9INCT0LXQvtGA0LPQuNC10LLRgdC60Lg=?=)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 21:05:30 +0200
Subject: String to valid Python identifier
Message-ID: 

Is there any easy function in the stdlib to convert any random string in 
a valid Python identifier .. possibly by replacing non-valid characters 
with _ ?

Python 2.x only, so no need to do Unicode.


-- 
?????? ( http://softver.org.mk/damjan/ )

Religion ends and philosophy begins, 
just as alchemy ends and chemistry begins 
and astrology ends, and astronomy begins.


From pdlemper at earthlink.net  Wed Aug  5 15:18:26 2009
From: pdlemper at earthlink.net (pdlemper at earthlink.net)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 14:18:26 -0500
Subject: trouble with complex numbers
References: <24821423.post@talk.nabble.com>
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: <7gmj75lbijq2k8d8lk6kff7itt76n8ij13@4ax.com>

On Wed, 05 Aug 2009 08:18:55 -0700, Scott David Daniels
 wrote:

>I think it explained in the complex math area, but basically EE types
>use j, math types use i for exactly the same thing.  Since i is so
>frequently and index in CS, and there is another strong convention,
>why not let the EE types win?
>
>--Scott David Daniels
>Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org

   i represents current                                     Dave WB3DWE


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Wed Aug  5 15:23:16 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 12:23:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: access string data from within cython
References: <7dtt46F2e5osvU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <88384285-0147-470d-943f-14cfaa79219f@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>

On 5 Aug, 19:16, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:

> void foo(void *data, size_t length)
>
> The wrapper is supposed to be called with a python (byte)string instance,
> which might contain more than one '\0'-character.
>
> So how do I access the raw data of a string?

cdef extern void foo(void *data, int length)
cdef char *data
cdef int length
bytestring = ... #whatever

rawdata =  bytestring
length =  len(bytestring)

foo(data, length)




From joshua at joshuakugler.com  Wed Aug  5 15:23:31 2009
From: joshua at joshuakugler.com (Joshua Kugler)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 11:23:31 -0800
Subject: Subclassing Python's dict
References: 
	<2d56febf0908050732i7792bf7ft32accf1bc1157421@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

Xavier Ho wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 11:51 AM, Sergey Simonenko
> wrote:
> 
>> I subclass builtin 'dict' in my application and experience some problems
>> with it.
>>
> 
> You should subclass collections.UserDict, and not the default dict class.
> Refer to the collections module.

Are you referring to Python 3.0?  Python 2.6 does not have
collections.UserDict

j




From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Wed Aug  5 15:25:42 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 12:25:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: access string data from within cython
References: <7dtt46F2e5osvU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<88384285-0147-470d-943f-14cfaa79219f@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <99c677b4-75eb-4a33-a1be-eecbc61c14fc@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On 5 Aug, 21:23, sturlamolden  wrote:

> foo(data, length)

Oops, that would be

foo( data, length)




From joshua at joshuakugler.com  Wed Aug  5 15:26:48 2009
From: joshua at joshuakugler.com (Joshua Kugler)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 11:26:48 -0800
Subject: Do anyone here use Python *embedded* in a database?
References: 
Message-ID: 

Jonathan Fine wrote:

> Hi
> 
> I'm writing a talk that compares embed and extend, and wondered if
> anyone here ever used the Python *embedded* in a database server.
>      http://twistedmatrix.com/users/glyph/rant/extendit.html
> 
> Web frameworks (such as Django) use extend, to import an extension
> module that makes a connection to a database.
> 
> If you have used embed, you might have consulted a page such as:
>      http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.3/interactive/plpython-funcs.html
> 

Yes, I've used plpython.  We had a web application that had account creation
logic with salting, encryption, etc, on the passwords.  We then wanted to
use the same accounts to log in to a Drupal site.  Instead of trying to
replicate the logic in PHP, I just created a stored procedure with
plpython, and we overrode the drupal login check to call something
like "SELECT check_account(user, pass)" which would return 1 or 0 on
success or failure, respectively.  Worked great.

j




From mensanator at aol.com  Wed Aug  5 15:31:05 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 12:31:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Turtle Graphics are incompatible with gmpy
References: 
	<0002b5d3$0$2970$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 5, 2:19?am, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Aug 2009 03:49 pm Mensanator wrote:
>
> > In 3.1, tracing is now a screen attribute, not a turtle atribute.
> > I have no idea why
>
> > ? tooter = turtle.Turtle()
> > ? tooter.tracer(False)
>
> > doesn't give me an error (I thought silent errors were a bad thing).
>
> What makes it an error? Do you consider the following an error?
>
> >>> class Test:
>
> ... ? ? pass
> ...
>
> >>> t = Test()
> >>> t.tracer = 5

Come on, even _I_ know this:

>>> class Test:
	pass
>>> t = Test()
>>> t.tracer
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
    t.tracer
AttributeError: 'Test' object has no attribute 'tracer'
>>> t.tracer = False
>>> t.tracer
False


>
> Perhaps you mean, it's an API change you didn't know about, and you wish to
> protest that Turtle Graphics made an incompatible API change without
> telling you?

What does this mean?

>>> import turtle
>>> tooter = turtle.Turtle()
>>> tooter.tracer
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
    tooter.tracer
AttributeError: 'Turtle' object has no attribute 'tracer'
>>> tooter.hideturtle()
>>> tooter.speed('fast')
>>> turtle.update()
>>> turtle.tracer


How did the tracer attribute appear out of thin air?
And more importantly, why, if has been deprecated and
dropped from 3.x?

>
> > Naturally, having tracing on caused my program to crash.
>
> It seg faulted or raised an exception?

Why did you snip it? Should I not refer to this as a crash?

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "K:\user_python26\turtle\turtle_xy_Py3.py", line 95, in

    tooter.goto(the_coord)
  File "C:\Python31\lib\turtle.py", line 1771, in goto
    self._goto(Vec2D(*x))
  File "C:\Python31\lib\turtle.py", line 3165, in _goto
    nhops = 1+int((diffsq**0.5)/(3*(1.1**self._speed)*self._speed))
ValueError: mpq.pow fractional exponent, inexact-root

>
> [...]
>
> > Unfortunately, that calculation of nhops is illegal if diffsq is
> > an .mpf (gmpy floating point). Otherwise, you get
>
> How does diffsq get to be a mpf?

No idea. I neglected to mention I'm using the new gmpy 1.10.
Don't know if that has any bearing.

> Are gmpy floats supposed to be supported?

Apparently not, as gmpy has only limited exponential capability.
Looks like I need to change turtle.py to use math.sqrt(diffsq)
or float(diffsq)**0.5. Or not pass turtle.py any .mpz since it
can't handle them.

>
> --
> Steven



From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Wed Aug  5 15:36:11 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 12:36:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is this a bug in multiprocessing or in my script?
References: 
	<2f26a239-2f06-40f8-b0f0-d2e55edbe5e5@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> 
	<74bd61ff-c666-4f78-9441-5422e858ea0b@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6e700877-2723-4cae-a5b1-708475860b98@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On 5 Aug, 15:40, Jesse Noller  wrote:

> Sturla;
>
> That bug was fixed unless I'm missing something.

It is still in SVN. Change every call to os._exit to sys.exit
please. :)

http://svn.python.org/view/python/branches/release26-maint/Lib/multiprocessing/forking.py?revision=66717&view=markup

http://svn.python.org/view/python/branches/release31-maint/Lib/multiprocessing/forking.py?revision=73579&view=markup









From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Wed Aug  5 15:40:40 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 12:40:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is this a bug in multiprocessing or in my script?
References: 
	<2f26a239-2f06-40f8-b0f0-d2e55edbe5e5@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> 
	<74bd61ff-c666-4f78-9441-5422e858ea0b@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> 
	<6e700877-2723-4cae-a5b1-708475860b98@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On 5 Aug, 21:36, sturlamolden  wrote:

> http://svn.python.org/view/python/branches/release26-maint/Lib/multip...
>
> http://svn.python.org/view/python/branches/release31-maint/Lib/multip...

http://svn.python.org/view/python/trunk/Lib/multiprocessing/forking.py?revision=65864&view=markup



From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Wed Aug  5 15:41:26 2009
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 20:41:26 +0100
Subject: Parsing Binary Structures; Is there a better way / What is your
	way?
In-Reply-To: <7xr5vqw0v9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: 
	<7x3a86gmfe.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
	<7xr5vqw0v9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: 

Paul Rubin wrote:
> "Martin P. Hellwig"  writes:
>> Is there an advantage using shifts and masks over my kitchen type solution?
> 
> Weren't you complaining about the 8-to-1 expansion from turning each bit
> to an ascii char?

Yes you are (of course) right, my 'dream' solution would be something 
that accepts slice indeces on bit level. Your reasoning did reveal some 
flaws in my approach though ;-)

-- 
MPH
http://blog.dcuktec.com
'If consumed, best digested with added seasoning to own preference.'


From rylesny at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 15:48:24 2009
From: rylesny at gmail.com (ryles)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 12:48:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is this a bug in multiprocessing or in my script?
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 4, 10:37?pm, erikcw  wrote:
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? File "scraper.py", line 144, in 
> ? ? print pool.map(scrape, range(10))
> ? File "/usr/lib/python2.6/multiprocessing/pool.py", line 148, in map
> ? ? return self.map_async(func, iterable, chunksize).get()
> ? File "/usr/lib/python2.6/multiprocessing/pool.py", line 422, in get
> ? ? raise self._value
> TypeError: expected string or buffer

This is almost certainly due to your scrape call raising an exception.
In the parent process, multiprocessing will detect if one of its
workers have terminated with an exception and then re-raise it.
However, only the exception and not the original traceback is made
available, which is making debugging more difficult for you. Here's a
simple example which demonstrates this behavior:

*** from multiprocessing import Pool
*** def evil_on_8(x):
...   if x == 8: raise ValueError("I DONT LIKE THE NUMBER 8")
...   return x + 1
...
*** pool = Pool(processes=4)
>>> pool.map(evil_on_8, range(5))
[1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
*** pool.map(evil_on_8, range(10)) # 8 will cause evilness.
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
  File "/bb/real/3ps/lib/python2.6/multiprocessing/pool.py", line 148,
in map
    return self.map_async(func, iterable, chunksize).get()
  File "/bb/real/3ps/lib/python2.6/multiprocessing/pool.py", line 422,
in get
    raise self._value
ValueError: I DONT LIKE THE NUMBER 8
***

My recommendation is that you wrap your scrape code inside a try/
except and log any exception. I usually do this with logging.exception
(), or if logging is not in use, the traceback module. After that you
can simply re-raise it.


From no.email at please.post  Wed Aug  5 15:58:39 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 19:58:39 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: no-clobber dicts?
References: 
	
	
	<00027aa9$0$2969$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

In <00027aa9$0$2969$c3e8da3 at news.astraweb.com> Steven D'Aprano  writes:

>No problem. Here you go:

>http://www.cybersource.com.au/users/steve/python/constants.py

Extremely helpful.  Thanks!

kynn


From wolfram.hinderer at googlemail.com  Wed Aug  5 16:00:07 2009
From: wolfram.hinderer at googlemail.com (Wolfram Hinderer)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 13:00:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Turtle Graphics are incompatible with gmpy
References: 
	<0002b5d3$0$2970$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <214e2b0a-15c9-4d2b-a836-9ad75a13fc6c@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On 5 Aug., 21:31, Mensanator  wrote:
>
> >>> import turtle
> >>> tooter = turtle.Turtle()
> >>> tooter.tracer
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? File "", line 1, in 
> ? ? tooter.tracer
> AttributeError: 'Turtle' object has no attribute 'tracer'>>> tooter.hideturtle()
> >>> tooter.speed('fast')
> >>> turtle.update()
> >>> turtle.tracer
>
> 
>
> How did the tracer attribute appear out of thin air?

You seem to confuse the "tooter" Turtle object and the "turtle" module
when talking about "the tracer attribute".


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Wed Aug  5 16:07:29 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 22:07:29 +0200
Subject: Is this a bug in multiprocessing or in my script?
References: 
	<2f26a239-2f06-40f8-b0f0-d2e55edbe5e5@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<74bd61ff-c666-4f78-9441-5422e858ea0b@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<6e700877-2723-4cae-a5b1-708475860b98@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

>>>>> sturlamolden  (s) wrote:

>s> On 5 Aug, 15:40, Jesse Noller  wrote:
>>> Sturla;
>>> 
>>> That bug was fixed unless I'm missing something.

>s> It is still in SVN. Change every call to os._exit to sys.exit
>s> please. :)

Calling os.exit in a child process may be dangerous. It can cause
unflushed buffers to be flushed twice: once in the parent and once in
the child. 
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Wed Aug  5 16:08:00 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 13:08:00 -0700
Subject: Turtle Graphics are incompatible with gmpy
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<0002b5d3$0$2970$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <4A79E6A0.5040404@stoneleaf.us>

Mensanator wrote:



> 
> What does this mean?
> 
> 
>>>>import turtle
>>>>tooter = turtle.Turtle()
>>>>*tooter*.tracer
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "", line 1, in 
>     tooter.tracer
> AttributeError: 'Turtle' object has no attribute 'tracer'
> 
>>>>tooter.hideturtle()
>>>>tooter.speed('fast')
>>>>turtle.update()
>>>>*turtle*.tracer
> 
> 
> 
> How did the tracer attribute appear out of thin air?

Perhaps I am missing something (wouldn't surprise me!) but it seems that 
the first time you are looking for a tracer on 'tooter', and the second 
time you are looking for a tracer on 'turtle'.  After *turtle.tracer* 
succeeds, does *tooter.tracer*?

~Ethan~


From no.email at please.post  Wed Aug  5 16:09:25 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 20:09:25 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to combine regexps?
Message-ID: 



One of the nice things one can do with Perl's regexp's is illustrated
in the following example:

my $gly = qr/gg[ucag]/i
my $ala = qr/gc[ucag]/i;
my $val = qr/gu[ucag]/i;
my $leu = qr/uu[ag]|cu[ucag]/i;
my $ile = qr/au[uca]/i;

my $aliphatic = qr/$gly|$ala|$val|$leu|$ile/;


In other words, one can build regular expressions by re-combining
other regular expressions.

Is there a way to do this with Python's regexps?

TIA!

kynn


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Aug  5 16:11:37 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 5 Aug 2009 13:11:37 -0700
Subject: Printing with colors in a portable way
References: <33e19169-19b4-497a-b262-2bcf7b5637d5@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
	<19e16923-b200-498b-9ab2-f7d316b568a6@d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

In article <19e16923-b200-498b-9ab2-f7d316b568a6 at d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,
r   wrote:
>On Aug 2, 9:52=A0pm, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
>
>> Much as I hate to say, use a cross-platform GUI -- Tkinter comes with
>> Python,
>
>Why is Tkinter such a whipping boy of the Python community? 

Can you explain what the connection is between my post and yours?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"...string iteration isn't about treating strings as sequences of strings, 
it's about treating strings as sequences of characters.  The fact that
characters are also strings is the reason we have problems, but characters 
are strings for other good reasons."  --Aahz


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Wed Aug  5 16:14:04 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 22:14:04 +0200
Subject: http access produces 503
References: <3b5ab07c-7b0b-4d23-965b-192dc86cf6ff@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Rog  (R) wrote:

>R> I am porting a simple code from Perl, the website asks for usr/pwd and
>R> the server's side Perl script makes atemp ftp dir for file upload.

>R> The original Perl script connects okay, does its job. The same URL
>R> stuffed into FF3 performs the same way.
>R> My Python script I am sweating out for past four days (noob!) gets
>R> consistently "503", even with user agen set to: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows;
>R> U; Windows NT 5.1; it; rv:1.8.1.11) Gecko/20071127 Firefox/2.0.0.11.
>R> Snippets of relevant code below.

>R> Please, help me understand how this same code lets me log in into my
>R> router usr/pwd running .asp, but this !@#$% perl script returns to me
>R> w/503 c*ap?
>R> Thank you.

Which perl script?

>R> Do I need to set any proxy? The server is on intranet and the FF3 is
>R> set to proxy. The original Perl script did not use any proxy setting.

>R> 

>R> url = http://example.com/ftpsetup.pl?username=boofa&nodeid=42
>R> #########################################################
>R> # create a password manager
>R>     password_mgr = urllib2.HTTPPasswordMgrWithDefaultRealm()
>R> # Add the username and password.
>R> # If we knew the realm, we could use it instead of ``None``.
>R>     password_mgr.add_password(None, url, uid, pcode)
>R>     handler = urllib2.HTTPBasicAuthHandler(password_mgr)
>R>     class Mopener(URLopener): version = "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U;
>R> Windows NT 5.1; it; rv:1.8.1.11) Gecko/20071127 Firefox/2.0.0.11"

>R>     opener = Mopener()

>R> # create "opener" (OpenerDirector instance)

>R>     opener = urllib2.build_opener(handler)
>R>     opener.addheaders = [('User-agent', 'Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U;
>R> Windows NT 5.1; it; rv:1.8.1.11) Gecko/20071127 Firefox/2.0.0.11')]

>R>     opener.version = "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; it; rv:
>R> 1.8.1.11) Gecko/20071127 Firefox/2.0.0.11"

>R>     print opener.version
>R> # timeout in seconds
>R>     timeout = 10
>R>     socket.setdefaulttimeout(timeout)

>R> # Install the opener all calls to urllib2.urlopen use our opener.
>R>     urllib2.install_opener(opener)

>R>     try:
>R>         response = opener.open(url)
>R>         # "http://www.useragent.org/" tested okay!!!
>R>         print"ok = 1"
>R>     except:
>R>         print "error 1"
>R> #####################################################################################

This code is a mess. The indentation is wrong so it can't be your real
code. Imports are missing. And there is a lot of garbage that doen't do
anything. E.g. The Mopener business is not used. install_opener is not
used.

Please make a minimal examples and check if that fails to. Like:

import urllib2
import socket

url = 'http://example.com/ftpsetup.pl?username=boofa&nodeid=42'
uid = ...
pcode = ...

# create a password manager
password_mgr = urllib2.HTTPPasswordMgrWithDefaultRealm()
# Add the username and password.
# If we knew the realm, we could use it instead of ``None``.
password_mgr.add_password(None, url, uid, pcode)
handler = urllib2.HTTPBasicAuthHandler(password_mgr)

# create "opener" (OpenerDirector instance)
opener = urllib2.build_opener(handler)

# timeout in seconds
timeout = 10
socket.setdefaulttimeout(timeout)

try:
    response = opener.open(url)
    print response.read()
    print"ok = 1"
except:
    print "error 1"



>R> output from the above:

>R> Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; it; rv:1.8.1.11) Gecko/
>R> 20071127 Firefox/2.0.0.11
>R> error 1
>R> Error code:  503
>R> ('Service Unavailable', 'The server cannot process the request due to
>R> a high load')

That suggests that there is a real problem in the server. Or that your
url causes some problems.

-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From pfeldman at verizon.net  Wed Aug  5 16:16:31 2009
From: pfeldman at verizon.net (Dr. Phillip M. Feldman)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 13:16:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: trouble with complex numbers
In-Reply-To: 
References: <24821423.post@talk.nabble.com> 
Message-ID: <24835436.post@talk.nabble.com>


I am using Python 2.5, and most of the cmath functions are not yet available
in this version.  Thanks!

Phillip

P.S. In your code, that should be x+= 0J

P.P.S. I wish that the documentation indicated anything that is new.


Christian Heimes-2 wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> phase() has been added to Python 2.6 and 3.0. It's not available in 
> Python 2.5 and earlier. If you'd used cmath.phase() instead of the ugly 
> "from cmath import *" statement you'd have seen the correct error message.
> 
> You can write your own phase() function. This function is mostly correct 
> unless either the real and/or the imag part is NaN or INF.
> 
> from math import atan2
> 
> def phase(z):
>      z += 1j # convert int, long, float to complex
>      return atan2(z.imag, z.real)
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
> 

-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/trouble-with-complex-numbers-tp24821423p24835436.html
Sent from the Python - python-list mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Wed Aug  5 16:18:02 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 17:18:02 -0300
Subject: Python configuration question when python scripts are executed
	using Appweb as web server.
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

En Tue, 04 Aug 2009 10:15:24 -0300, IronyOfLife 
escribi?:
> On Aug 3, 8:42?pm, "Gabriel Genellina"  wrote:
>> En Mon, 03 Aug 2009 11:04:07 -0300, IronyOfLife   
>> escribi?:
>>
>> > I have installed python 2.6.2 in windows xp professional machine. I
>> > have set the following environment variables -- PYTHONPATH. It points
>> > to following windows folders: python root folder, the lib folder and
>> > lib-tk folder.
>>
>> Why? Did you read it somewhere? Usually there is no need to set the ?
>> PYTHONPATH variable at all; remove it.
>
> Setting PYTHONPATH environment variables is mentioned in Python docs.

Could you provide a link please? Setting PYTHONPATH should not be
necesary, and in fact it's a very bad idea. Environment variables are
global, but Python modules may depend on the Python version, architecture,
install location... By example, you may install a 64 bits Python 3.1
version *and* a 32 bits Python 2.5 version and they both can coexist
peacefully - but an extension module compiled for the former cannot be
used in the later version. You must build a separate library for each
version, and install them in two separate directories. But since the
PYTHONPATH variable is shared by all installations, which directory should
contain?
It's best not to use PYTHONPATH at all and rely on other alternatives
(like .pth files, that are searched relative to the current Python
executable, so different versions use different configuration files)

> I solved the issue temporarily by copying the gnutls related dlls to
> the path searched by python.exe

Glad to see you could finally fix it!

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From robert.kern at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 16:27:51 2009
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 15:27:51 -0500
Subject: trouble with complex numbers
In-Reply-To: <24835436.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <24821423.post@talk.nabble.com> 
	<24835436.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-05 15:16, Dr. Phillip M. Feldman wrote:
> I am using Python 2.5, and most of the cmath functions are not yet available
> in this version.  Thanks!
>
> Phillip
>
> P.S. In your code, that should be x+= 0J
>
> P.P.S. I wish that the documentation indicated anything that is new.

It does.

http://docs.python.org/library/cmath#cmath.phase

"New in version 2.6."

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From malc0de.encrypt at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 16:28:30 2009
From: malc0de.encrypt at gmail.com (MalC0de)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 13:28:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Error on Attaching to the process while debugging
Message-ID: <21dbc649-2f82-4e4c-9777-c8a58c25a9e0@r2g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

Hello there, I'm writting a debugger,
the problem is there no good interpretation ...

here's the codes:

my_debugger.py :

#!/usr/bin/env python
from ctypes import *
from my_debugger_defines import *
kernel32 = windll.kernel32
class debugger():
    def __init__(self):
	  self.h_process = None
	  self.pid = None
	  self.debugger_active = False
          pass
    def load(self,path_to_exe):
        creation_flags = DEBUG_PROCESS
        startupinfo = STARTUPINFO()
        process_information = PROCESSINFORMATION()
        startupinfo.dwFlags = 0x1
        startupinfo.wShowWindow = 0x0
        startupinfo.cb = sizeof(startupinfo)
        if kernel32.CreateProcessA(path_to_exe,
                                    None,
                                    None,
                                    None,
                                    None,
                                    creation_flags,
                                    None,
                                    None,
                                    byref(startupinfo),
                                    byref(process_information)):
                  print "[*]we have sucessfully launched the process"
                  print "[*]PID %d" % process_information.dwProcessId
                  self.h_process = self.open_process
(process_information.dwProcessId)
        else:
            print"[*]Error 0x%08x." % kernel32.GetLastError()

def Open_process(self,pid):
    h_process = kernel32.OpenProcess(PROCESS_ALL_ACCESS,pid,False)
    return h_process
def attach(self,pid):
        self.h_process = self.open_process(pid)
        # We attempt to attach to the process
        # if this fails we exit the call
        if kernel32.DebugActiveProcess(pid):
            self.debugger_active = True
            self.pid             = int(pid)

        else:
            print "[*] Unable to attach to the process."

def run(self):
    while self.debugger_active == True:
        self.get_debug_event()
def get_debug_event(self):
    debug_event = DEBUG_EVENT()
    continue_status = DBG_CONTINUE
    if kernel32.WaitForDebugEvent(byref(debug_event),INFINITE):
        raw_input("Press a key to continue ...")
    self.debugger_active = False
    kernel32.ContinueDebugEvent
(debug_event.dwProdcessid,debug_event.dwThreadId,continue_status)
    def detach(self):
        if kernel32.DeugActiveProcessStop(self.pid):
            print "[*]Finished debugging. exiting ..."
            return True
        else:
            print "there was an error"
            return false

it's already have a method named : Attach ...

ok, the next source ,
my_test.py which lead python to launching the calc.exe for testing
purpose .

my_test.py :

#!/usr/bin/python
import my_debugger
debugger = my_debugger.debugger()
pid = raw_input("Enter the PID of the process to attach to :")
debugger.attach(int(pid))
debugger.detach()

and finally the essential definitions into my_debugger_defines.py

#!/usr/bin/env python
from ctypes import *
WORD = c_ushort
DWORD = c_ulong
LPBYTE = POINTER(c_ubyte)
LPTSTR = POINTER(c_char)
HANDLE = c_void_p
DEBUG_PROCESS = 0x00000001
CREATE_NEW_CONSOLE = 0x00000010
class STARTUPINFO(Structure):
    _fielnds_ = [
        ("cb",                                  DWORD),
        ("lpReserved",                          LPTSTR),
        ("lpDesktop",                           LPTSTR),
        ("lpTitle",                             LPTSTR),
        ("dwX",                                 DWORD),
        ("dwY",                                 DWORD),
        ("dwXSize",                             DWORD),
        ("dwYSize",                             DWORD),
        ("dwXCountChars",                       DWORD),
        ("dwFillAttribute",                     DWORD),
        ("dwFlags",                             DWORD),
        ("wShowWindow",                          WORD),
        ("cbReserved2",                          WORD),
        ("lpReserved2",                        LPBYTE),
        ("hStdInput",                          HANDLE),
        ("hStdOutput",                         HANDLE),
        ("hStdError",                          HANDLE),
    ]
class PROCESSINFORMATION(Structure):
    _fields_ = [
        ("hProcess",                           HANDLE),
        ("hThread",                            HANDLE),
        ("dwProcessId",                         DWORD),
        ("dwThreadId",                          DWORD),
    ]

when you type : python my_test.py it must run without any problem, but
seems errors occures while interpretation :

Enter the PID of the process to attach to :212
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\python25\2\my_Test.py", line 5, in 
    debugger.attach(int(pid))
AttributeError: debugger instance has no attribute 'attach'

it's nasty shit !
the my_debugger is already has a definition for attach() ,

please help me up,

thanks ...


From jnoller at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 16:28:45 2009
From: jnoller at gmail.com (Jesse Noller)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 13:28:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is this a bug in multiprocessing or in my script?
References: 
	<2f26a239-2f06-40f8-b0f0-d2e55edbe5e5@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> 
	<74bd61ff-c666-4f78-9441-5422e858ea0b@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> 
	<6e700877-2723-4cae-a5b1-708475860b98@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: <4a238650-45b0-4478-884f-257fa2d3e9ba@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 5, 3:40?pm, sturlamolden  wrote:
> On 5 Aug, 21:36, sturlamolden  wrote:
>
> >http://svn.python.org/view/python/branches/release26-maint/Lib/multip...
>
> >http://svn.python.org/view/python/branches/release31-maint/Lib/multip...
>
> http://svn.python.org/view/python/trunk/Lib/multiprocessing/forking.p...

Since the bug was never filed in the tracker (it was sent to my
personal mail box, and I dropped it - sorry), I've filed a new one:

http://bugs.python.org/issue6653

In the future please use the bug tracker to file and track bugs with,
so things are not as lossy.

jesse


From massi_srb at msn.com  Wed Aug  5 16:30:27 2009
From: massi_srb at msn.com (Massi)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 13:30:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Web page data and urllib2.urlopen
Message-ID: <469a6df4-92da-4fd1-bffd-5fefa8cdf3ed@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

Hi everyone, I'm using the urllib2 library to get the html source code
of web pages. In general it works great, but I'm having to do with a
financial web site which does not provide the souce code I expect. As
a matter of fact if you try:

import urllib2
res = urllib2.urlopen("http://www.marketwatch.com/story/mondays-
biggest-gaining-and-declining-stocks-2009-07-27")
page = res.read()
print page

you will see that the printed code is very different from the one
given, for example, by mozilla. Since I have really little knowledge
in html I can't even understand if this is a python or html problem.
Can anyone give me some help?
Thanks in advance.


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Wed Aug  5 16:35:02 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 13:35:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is this a bug in multiprocessing or in my script?
References: 
	<2f26a239-2f06-40f8-b0f0-d2e55edbe5e5@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> 
	<74bd61ff-c666-4f78-9441-5422e858ea0b@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> 
	<6e700877-2723-4cae-a5b1-708475860b98@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: <8d19bdd2-ac70-4fd0-bea3-56ab520048de@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On 5 Aug, 22:07, Piet van Oostrum  wrote:

> Calling os.exit in a child process may be dangerous. It can cause
> unflushed buffers to be flushed twice: once in the parent and once in
> the child.

I assume you mean sys.exit. If this is the case, multiprocessing needs
a mechanism to chose between os._exit and sys.exit for child
processes. Calling os._exit might also be dangerous because it could
prevent necessary clean-up code from executing  (e.g. in C
extensions). I had a case where shared memory on Linux (System V IPC)
leaked due to os._exit. The deallocator for my extension type never
got to execute in child processes. The deallocator was needed to
release the shared segment when its reference count dropped to 0.
Changing to sys.exit solved the problem. On Windows there was no leak,
because the kernel did the reference counting.




From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 16:35:23 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 13:35:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to combine regexps?
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 5, 1:09?pm, kj  wrote:
> One of the nice things one can do with Perl's regexp's is illustrated
> in the following example:
>
> my $gly = qr/gg[ucag]/i
> my $ala = qr/gc[ucag]/i;
> my $val = qr/gu[ucag]/i;
> my $leu = qr/uu[ag]|cu[ucag]/i;
> my $ile = qr/au[uca]/i;
>
> my $aliphatic = qr/$gly|$ala|$val|$leu|$ile/;
>
> In other words, one can build regular expressions by re-combining
> other regular expressions.
>
> Is there a way to do this with Python's regexps?

Your example is just string manipulation.

You're not combining regexps here, you are combining strings which you
(evidently) will soon use to create a regexp.

Yes, you can do that in Python as well, in exactly the same way, using
Python's string manipulation capabilities.


Carl Banks


From no.email at please.post  Wed Aug  5 16:36:07 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 20:36:07 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to combine regexps?
References: 
Message-ID: 

In  kj  writes:



>One of the nice things one can do with Perl's regexp's is illustrated
>in the following example:

>my $gly = qr/gg[ucag]/i
>my $ala = qr/gc[ucag]/i;
>my $val = qr/gu[ucag]/i;
>my $leu = qr/uu[ag]|cu[ucag]/i;
>my $ile = qr/au[uca]/i;

>my $aliphatic = qr/$gly|$ala|$val|$leu|$ile/;


>In other words, one can build regular expressions by re-combining
>other regular expressions.

>Is there a way to do this with Python's regexps?


OK, answering my own question here, it looks like the only way to
do this is to leave the "component" expressions as regular strings,
and combine those, before compiling them into regexps.

Easy enough.

kynn


From joncle at googlemail.com  Wed Aug  5 16:39:33 2009
From: joncle at googlemail.com (Jon Clements)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 13:39:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Parsing Binary Structures; Is there a better way / What is your 
	way?
References: 
	<7x3a86gmfe.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> 
	
	<7xr5vqw0v9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> 
	
Message-ID: <1211ccf7-1147-42de-ab62-3e5b33b09011@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On 5 Aug, 20:41, "Martin P. Hellwig" 
wrote:
> Paul Rubin wrote:
> > "Martin P. Hellwig"  writes:
> >> Is there an advantage using shifts and masks over my kitchen type solution?
>
> > Weren't you complaining about the 8-to-1 expansion from turning each bit
> > to an ascii char?
>
> Yes you are (of course) right, my 'dream' solution would be something
> that accepts slice indeces on bit level. Your reasoning did reveal some
> flaws in my approach though ;-)
>
> --
> MPHhttp://blog.dcuktec.com
> 'If consumed, best digested with added seasoning to own preference.'

Ahh huh -- found it...

ID: DLT119
Desc: datasyzygy misc. development, production and accounts.
Date: 2008-12-09
File: pybits.py
"""
Implements a python level interface to reading bit fields with an
associated type. Fields are accessed via __getitem__ and must be a
valid python name. eg:

class MyStructure:
    a = BitField(4, int)
    b = BitField(6, int)
    c = BitField(2, int)
    d = BitField(36, str)
"""

Ummm, seems I left the rest pretty vague, but I'm guessing that's what
you're after, and I'm fairly curious to see what I wrote... mind you,
not too hard to write again now that's jogged my memory! (although
after a couple at the pub, not going to do it tonight!)

Cheers,

Jon.



From mensanator at aol.com  Wed Aug  5 16:40:28 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 13:40:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Turtle Graphics are incompatible with gmpy
References: 
	<0002b5d3$0$2970$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <87b655e8-937b-4f62-ad1e-5165d547a7bd@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 5, 3:08?pm, Ethan Furman  wrote:
> Mensanator wrote:
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > What does this mean?
>
> >>>>import turtle
> >>>>tooter = turtle.Turtle()
> >>>>*tooter*.tracer
>
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> > ? File "", line 1, in 
> > ? ? tooter.tracer
> > AttributeError: 'Turtle' object has no attribute 'tracer'
>
> >>>>tooter.hideturtle()
> >>>>tooter.speed('fast')
> >>>>turtle.update()
> >>>>*turtle*.tracer
>
> > 
>
> > How did the tracer attribute appear out of thin air?
>
> Perhaps I am missing something (wouldn't surprise me!) but it seems that
> the first time you are looking for a tracer on 'tooter', and the second
> time you are looking for a tracer on 'turtle'. ?

Duh. I could have looked at that from now til the sun don't shine and
not seen it. And I even retyped it, no cut/paste.

> After *turtle.tracer*
> succeeds, does *tooter.tracer*?

No, that was my mistake. Too late now as the record is gone, but I
could have sworn I had the math exception first. That's what made
me go realize the tracing wasn't off which led me to add .screen.

Sounds like I should have gotten the attribute error first.

Maybe I did and am mis-remembering it. Usually, I don't start keeping
notes at first because I'm not expecting failure.

>
> ~Ethan~



From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Wed Aug  5 16:41:53 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 13:41:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is this a bug in multiprocessing or in my script?
References: 
	<2f26a239-2f06-40f8-b0f0-d2e55edbe5e5@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> 
	<74bd61ff-c666-4f78-9441-5422e858ea0b@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> 
	<6e700877-2723-4cae-a5b1-708475860b98@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> 
	 
	<4a238650-45b0-4478-884f-257fa2d3e9ba@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <54cdf823-7b2c-4ff8-b1f2-b8091a7daeb8@d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On 5 Aug, 22:28, Jesse Noller  wrote:

> http://bugs.python.org/issue6653
>
> In the future please use the bug tracker to file and track bugs with,
> so things are not as lossy.

Ok, sorry :)

Also see Piet's comment here. He has a valid case against sys.exit in
some cases. Thus it appears that both ways of shutting down child
processes might be dangerous: If we don't want buffers to flush we
have to use os._exit. If we want clean-up code to execute we have to
use sys.exit. If we want both we are screwed. :(






From netgraviton at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 16:42:40 2009
From: netgraviton at gmail.com (WordStream)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 13:42:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [ATTN] Sr. Software Development Engineer
Message-ID: 

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However, like everything in the computing industry, we're constantly
evolving how we work.  We're always on the lookout for newer and
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are likely to be different.

This is a full-time telecommute position.  The Sr. Software
Development Engineer can choose to work in our Boston office, or they
can choose to work from at home or from any location in the world.

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science or engineering, or, a very substantial amount of related
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From rogerb at rogerbinns.com  Wed Aug  5 16:45:09 2009
From: rogerb at rogerbinns.com (Roger Binns)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 13:45:09 -0700
Subject: Do anyone here use Python *embedded* in a database?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Jonathan Fine wrote:
> anyone here ever used the Python *embedded* in a database server.

There is also the case of using SQLite where it shares the same process as
your Python code (and nothing else) and is a standard part of the Python
library.

You can add your own functions and collations and if using APSW then you can
also go way further than a regular database and add virtual tables and
virtual storage.

SQLite generally outperforms database servers since there is no cross
process or network communication until you get to larger workloads and/or
concurrent database access which database servers are more tuned for.

Roger



From jnoller at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 16:50:03 2009
From: jnoller at gmail.com (Jesse Noller)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 13:50:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is this a bug in multiprocessing or in my script?
References: 
	<2f26a239-2f06-40f8-b0f0-d2e55edbe5e5@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> 
	<74bd61ff-c666-4f78-9441-5422e858ea0b@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> 
	<6e700877-2723-4cae-a5b1-708475860b98@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> 
	 
	<4a238650-45b0-4478-884f-257fa2d3e9ba@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<54cdf823-7b2c-4ff8-b1f2-b8091a7daeb8@d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 5, 4:41?pm, sturlamolden  wrote:
> On 5 Aug, 22:28, Jesse Noller  wrote:
>
> >http://bugs.python.org/issue6653
>
> > In the future please use the bug tracker to file and track bugs with,
> > so things are not as lossy.
>
> Ok, sorry :)
>
> Also see Piet's comment here. He has a valid case against sys.exit in
> some cases. Thus it appears that both ways of shutting down child
> processes might be dangerous: If we don't want buffers to flush we
> have to use os._exit. If we want clean-up code to execute we have to
> use sys.exit. If we want both we are screwed. :(

Comments around this bug should go in the bug report - again, so we
don't loose them. I do not personally subscribe to this group , so
it's very easy to miss things.

jesse


From mensanator at aol.com  Wed Aug  5 17:03:05 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 14:03:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Turtle Graphics are incompatible with gmpy
References: 
	<0002b5d3$0$2970$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4a7936a4$0$1552$91cee783@newsreader03.highway.telekom.at> 
	 
	<4A79C7E2.3000406@aon.at>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 5, 12:56?pm, Gregor Lingl  wrote:
> Mensanator schrieb:
>
>
>
>
>
> >> It didn't form 2.5 to 2.6 (at least not intentionally). But with the
> >> indroduction of the TurtleScreen class and the Screen class/object
> >> (singleton) a few of the turtle methods were also implemented as screen
> >> methods and as turtle methods declared deprecated (see docs of Python
> >> 2.6). These deprecated turtle methods do not occur as turtle methods any
> >> more in Python 3.x.
>
> > More info.
>
> > Yes, there is no tracer attribute...when the object is created.
>
> > But watch this (Python 3.1):
>
> >>>> import turtle
> >>>> tooter = turtle.Turtle()
> >>>> tooter.tracer
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> > ? File "", line 1, in 
> > ? ? tooter.tracer
> > AttributeError: 'Turtle' object has no attribute 'tracer'
> >>>> tooter.hideturtle()
> >>>> tooter.speed('fast')
> >>>> turtle.update()
> >>>> turtle.tracer
> > 
>
> > Now, after setting hide, speed, update, a tracer exists.
>
> No,

Yeah, I mistyped my example, sorry about that. I thought sure
it was the math error that lead me to the tracer issue, but that
might have been a mistake.

>
> Nevertheless I'd like to see a working Python 2.5 version of your script.

I've commented out the parts that v2.5 doesn't have.
So the pen is still down and I have no .dot function,
but the gotos appear to still work as evidenced by
the large black square it now draws.

With tracing on in 2.5, I see the turtle move around
the square. With tracing off, I still the the square
outined, but without a turtle and much faster.

With 3.1, the screen is completely blank for 3-4 seconds and appears
all at once when it's done.

import gmpy

##   (even) hi----|
##                |
##                lo (odd)
## or
##
##   (even) lo
##           |
##           |
##           ----hi (odd)
##
##
##
##

import turtle

tooter = turtle.Turtle()

#tooter.hideturtle()
tooter.speed('fast')
#turtle.update()
tooter.tracer(False)
#tooter.penup()
tooter.color('black')

s = ['1','0']
while len(s[0])<10000:
    s = [''.join(s), s[0]]


origin = [0,0]
if s[0] == '0':
  tooter.goto(origin)
  #tooter.dot(1)
if s[1] == '0':
  tooter.goto([1,0])
  #tooter.dot(1)

print len(s[0])

for i,j in enumerate(s[0]):
  the_coord=[]
  cur_root = gmpy.sqrt(i)
  lo__root = gmpy.sqrt(i)**2
  hi__root = (gmpy.sqrt(i)+1)**2

  if hi__root%2==0:
    side = 'northeast'
  else:
    side = 'southwest'

  elbow = (hi__root - lo__root)/2 + lo__root + 1

  if i>= elbow:
    side_len = i - elbow
    elbow_plus = True
  else:
    side_len = elbow - i
    elbow_plus = False

  if side == 'northeast':
    elbow_offset = [(gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)/2 +1,-((gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)/2
+1)]
  else:
    elbow_offset = [-((gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)/2 +1),((gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)/
2 +1)]

  elbow_coord = [origin[0]+elbow_offset[0],origin[1]+elbow_offset[1]]

  if i != hi__root and i != lo__root:
    if i == elbow:
      the_coord = elbow_coord
    else:
      if elbow_plus:
        if side == 'northeast':
          the_coord = [elbow_coord[0]-side_len,elbow_coord[1]]
        else:
          the_coord = [elbow_coord[0]+side_len,elbow_coord[1]]
      else:
        if side == 'northeast':
          the_coord = [elbow_coord[0],elbow_coord[1]+side_len]
        else:
          the_coord = [elbow_coord[0],elbow_coord[1]-side_len]
  else:
    if i % 2 == 0:  # even square
      n = gmpy.sqrt(i)/2 - 1
      the_coord = [-n, -n-1]
    else:
      n = (gmpy.sqrt(i)-1)/2 - 1
      the_coord = [1+n, 1+n]
  if j == '0':
    tooter.goto(the_coord)
    #tooter.dot(2)
print 'done'

#turtle.update()
turtle.done()
print 'done'


>
> Regards,
> Gregor


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Aug  5 17:19:20 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 23:19:20 +0200
Subject: access string data from within cython
In-Reply-To: 
References: <7dtt46F2e5osvU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
Message-ID: <7dubaoF2e96rfU2@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Philip Semanchuk schrieb:
> 
> On Aug 5, 2009, at 1:16 PM, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm trying to wrap a C-API which has a call that takes a void* and a 
>> size_t
>> as arguments.
>>
>> void foo(void *data, size_t length)
>>
>>
>> The wrapper is supposed to be called with a python (byte)string instance,
>> which might contain more than one '\0'-character.
>>
>> So how do I access the raw data of a string? I tried looking into the
>> buffer-protocol, but to be honest - that's beyond me, I don't see where
>> that is actually giving me access to the real data.
> 
> Hi Diez,
> Would ctypes.create_string_buffer() work for you?

I'm not using ctypes because I want a distributable egg with static 
linkage. ctypes can't help there afaik.

Diez


From contact at xavierho.com  Wed Aug  5 17:22:44 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 07:22:44 +1000
Subject: Subclassing Python's dict
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<2d56febf0908050732i7792bf7ft32accf1bc1157421@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908051422h2cd0e58p1afce376895d5d1e@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 5:23 AM, Joshua Kugler wrote:

> Are you referring to Python 3.0?  Python 2.6 does not have
> collections.UserDict
>
> j
>

Yes, I was.... sometimes it's hard to keep track what's not in 2.6 and in
3.1 for me, sorry. And thanks.

The ABC MutableMapping is still valid, though. I hope he gets it sorted out.


With a morning yawn,
Xavier
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Aug  5 17:22:56 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 23:22:56 +0200
Subject: access string data from within cython
In-Reply-To: <88384285-0147-470d-943f-14cfaa79219f@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
References: <7dtt46F2e5osvU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<88384285-0147-470d-943f-14cfaa79219f@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7dubhgF2e96rfU3@mid.uni-berlin.de>

sturlamolden schrieb:
> On 5 Aug, 19:16, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
> 
>> void foo(void *data, size_t length)
>>
>> The wrapper is supposed to be called with a python (byte)string instance,
>> which might contain more than one '\0'-character.
>>
>> So how do I access the raw data of a string?
> 
> cdef extern void foo(void *data, int length)
> cdef char *data
> cdef int length
> bytestring = ... #whatever
> 
> rawdata =  bytestring
> length =  len(bytestring)

And that gives me the *full* bytestring, not only until the first zero? 
I can't try that right now (not at work anymore), but if it's that easy, 
that would be great.

Diez


From philip at semanchuk.com  Wed Aug  5 17:30:22 2009
From: philip at semanchuk.com (Philip Semanchuk)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 17:30:22 -0400
Subject: access string data from within cython
In-Reply-To: <7dubaoF2e96rfU2@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: <7dtt46F2e5osvU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	<7dubaoF2e96rfU2@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <84411DCB-CD09-4EE1-B50E-51D005748BE1@semanchuk.com>


On Aug 5, 2009, at 5:19 PM, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

> Philip Semanchuk schrieb:
>> On Aug 5, 2009, at 1:16 PM, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I'm trying to wrap a C-API which has a call that takes a void* and  
>>> a size_t
>>> as arguments.
>>>
>>> void foo(void *data, size_t length)
>>>
>>>
>>> The wrapper is supposed to be called with a python (byte)string  
>>> instance,
>>> which might contain more than one '\0'-character.
>>>
>>> So how do I access the raw data of a string? I tried looking into  
>>> the
>>> buffer-protocol, but to be honest - that's beyond me, I don't see  
>>> where
>>> that is actually giving me access to the real data.
>> Hi Diez,
>> Would ctypes.create_string_buffer() work for you?
>
> I'm not using ctypes because I want a distributable egg with static  
> linkage. ctypes can't help there afaik.

Sorry, I read cython as CPython.




From xahlee at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 17:44:49 2009
From: xahlee at gmail.com (Xah Lee)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 14:44:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Google sitemap generator in python gone?
Message-ID: <5982ba4d-668c-460f-a666-5d7cbe697883@x25g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

google used to have a sitemap generator written in python, at:
 https://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/docs/en/sitemap-generator.html

but the url is gone. It seems the current version is moved here:
http://code.google.com/p/googlesitemapgenerator/
and is written in JavaScript.

is the old python version still available? or is there some official
doc about this change?

thanks.

  Xah
? http://xahlee.org/

?


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Wed Aug  5 17:51:12 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 14:51:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: access string data from within cython
References: <7dtt46F2e5osvU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<88384285-0147-470d-943f-14cfaa79219f@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	<7dubhgF2e96rfU3@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <71adfa33-faee-48d7-adb0-1403d8af4fd5@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On 5 Aug, 23:22, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:

> And that gives me the *full* bytestring, not only until the first zero?
> I can't try that right now (not at work anymore), but if it's that easy,
> that would be great.

It should, and if it does not it is a bug in Cython. The len()
function should work similarly in Python and Cython: It should just
call the object's __len__ method. Cython has no idea that your Python
object bytestring is a byte string, nor does Cython care.

>>> bs = '\x00'*10 # bytes string with 10 zeros
>>> len(bs)
10
>>> bs.__len__()
10



From joncle at googlemail.com  Wed Aug  5 17:55:02 2009
From: joncle at googlemail.com (Jon Clements)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 14:55:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Google sitemap generator in python gone?
References: <5982ba4d-668c-460f-a666-5d7cbe697883@x25g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <631e148d-9e26-4779-b76a-bd405f4525c8@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On 5 Aug, 22:44, Xah Lee  wrote:
> google used to have a sitemap generator written in python, at:
> ?https://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/docs/en/sitemap-generator.html
>
> but the url is gone. It seems the current version is moved here:http://code.google.com/p/googlesitemapgenerator/
> and is written in JavaScript.
>
> is the old python version still available? or is there some official
> doc about this change?
>
> thanks.
>
> ? Xah
> ?http://xahlee.org/
>
> ?

How about asking Google, and not this list?

It's always good to see a funny troll on this list though...

Now please piddle off...


From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Wed Aug  5 17:59:18 2009
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 22:59:18 +0100
Subject: Google sitemap generator in python gone?
In-Reply-To: <631e148d-9e26-4779-b76a-bd405f4525c8@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <5982ba4d-668c-460f-a666-5d7cbe697883@x25g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<631e148d-9e26-4779-b76a-bd405f4525c8@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Jon Clements wrote:

> Now please piddle off...

I am guessing west-midlands? :-)

-- 
MPH
http://blog.dcuktec.com
'If consumed, best digested with added seasoning to own preference.'


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Aug  5 18:03:11 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 23:03:11 +0100
Subject: How to combine regexps?
In-Reply-To: 
References:  
Message-ID: <4A7A019F.3070205@mrabarnett.plus.com>

kj wrote:
> In  kj  writes:
> 
> 
> 
>> One of the nice things one can do with Perl's regexp's is illustrated
>> in the following example:
> 
>> my $gly = qr/gg[ucag]/i
>> my $ala = qr/gc[ucag]/i;
>> my $val = qr/gu[ucag]/i;
>> my $leu = qr/uu[ag]|cu[ucag]/i;
>> my $ile = qr/au[uca]/i;
> 
>> my $aliphatic = qr/$gly|$ala|$val|$leu|$ile/;
> 
> 
>> In other words, one can build regular expressions by re-combining
>> other regular expressions.
> 
>> Is there a way to do this with Python's regexps?
> 
> 
> OK, answering my own question here, it looks like the only way to
> do this is to leave the "component" expressions as regular strings,
> and combine those, before compiling them into regexps.
> 
> Easy enough.
> 
A compiled regular expression has 'pattern' and 'flags' attributes, so
you can get the original parameters which were used to create it if a
function is given just the compiled regular expression. Might be useful.


From mensanator at aol.com  Wed Aug  5 18:31:17 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 15:31:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Turtle Graphics are incompatible with gmpy
References: 
	<0002b5d3$0$2970$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4a7936a4$0$1552$91cee783@newsreader03.highway.telekom.at> 
	 
	<4A79C7E2.3000406@aon.at>
	
Message-ID: 

I fixed this to produce the actual image I'm looking
for instead of that stupid black square. All I did was
use up() & dowm() in place of penup(), pendown() and
replace dot(2) with forward(1).

I'll be posting a followup report later.


import gmpy

##   (even) hi----|
##                |
##                lo (odd)
## or
##
##   (even) lo
##           |
##           |
##           ----hi (odd)
##
##
##
##

import turtle

tooter = turtle.Turtle()

#tooter.hideturtle()
tooter.speed('fast')
#turtle.update()
tooter.tracer(False)
#tooter.penup()
tooter.up()
tooter.color('black')

s = ['1','0']
while len(s[0])<10000:
    s = [''.join(s), s[0]]


origin = [0,0]
if s[0] == '0':
  tooter.goto(origin)
  #tooter.dot(1)
  tooter.down()
  tooter.forward(1)
  tooter.up()
if s[1] == '0':
  tooter.goto([1,0])
  #tooter.dot(1)
  tooter.down()
  tooter.forward(1)
  tooter.up()

print len(s[0])

for i,j in enumerate(s[0]):
  the_coord=[]
  cur_root = gmpy.sqrt(i)
  lo__root = gmpy.sqrt(i)**2
  hi__root = (gmpy.sqrt(i)+1)**2

  if hi__root%2==0:
    side = 'northeast'
  else:
    side = 'southwest'

  elbow = (hi__root - lo__root)/2 + lo__root + 1

  if i>= elbow:
    side_len = i - elbow
    elbow_plus = True
  else:
    side_len = elbow - i
    elbow_plus = False

  if side == 'northeast':
    elbow_offset = [(gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)/2 +1,-((gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)/2
+1)]
  else:
    elbow_offset = [-((gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)/2 +1),((gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)/
2 +1)]

  elbow_coord = [origin[0]+elbow_offset[0],origin[1]+elbow_offset[1]]

  if i != hi__root and i != lo__root:
    if i == elbow:
      the_coord = elbow_coord
    else:
      if elbow_plus:
        if side == 'northeast':
          the_coord = [elbow_coord[0]-side_len,elbow_coord[1]]
        else:
          the_coord = [elbow_coord[0]+side_len,elbow_coord[1]]
      else:
        if side == 'northeast':
          the_coord = [elbow_coord[0],elbow_coord[1]+side_len]
        else:
          the_coord = [elbow_coord[0],elbow_coord[1]-side_len]
  else:
    if i % 2 == 0:  # even square
      n = gmpy.sqrt(i)/2 - 1
      the_coord = [-n, -n-1]
    else:
      n = (gmpy.sqrt(i)-1)/2 - 1
      the_coord = [1+n, 1+n]
  if j == '0':
    tooter.goto(the_coord)
    #tooter.dot(2)
    tooter.down()
    tooter.forward(1)
    tooter.up()
print 'done'

#turtle.update()
turtle.done()
print 'done'


From ryan at rfk.id.au  Wed Aug  5 18:33:14 2009
From: ryan at rfk.id.au (Ryan Kelly)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 08:33:14 +1000
Subject: ANN:  extprot 0.1.1
Message-ID: <1249511594.4180.9.camel@durian>


Hi All,


Sorry if you get this twice, it seems to have gotten lost on its way
through python-announce.

I'm pleased to announce the first release of the "extprot" python
module.  Extprot implements a compact, efficient, extensible and
language-neutral object serialisation protocol.

License:      MIT
Downloads:    http://pypi.python.org/pypi/extprot/
Source code:  http://github.com/rfk/extprot/tree/master


You can think of extprot as something akin to Google's protocol buffers,
with a few extra bytes of serialisation overhead and a Python binding
that doesn't have nearly as many rough edges.  For example:

      * It's a stand-alone python module, packaged and distributed in
        the standard fashion.
      * It's friendly to dynamic package management tools like pip.
      * It works exclusively with standard Python objects. Declared a
        list field? It's a native list object.
      * You don't need to compile your protocol definitions.


More on the extprot format itself is here:

   http://eigenclass.org/R2/writings/extprot-extensible-protocols-intro

More on my motivations for this package here, if you're interested:

    http://www.rfk.id.au/blog/entry/new-python-module-extprot


Enjoy!


    Ryan

-- 
Ryan Kelly
http://www.rfk.id.au  |  This message is digitally signed. Please visit
ryan at rfk.id.au        |  http://www.rfk.id.au/ramblings/gpg/ for details

-------------- next part --------------
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From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Wed Aug  5 19:04:55 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 05 Aug 2009 23:04:55 GMT
Subject: trouble with complex numbers
References: <24821423.post@talk.nabble.com> 
	<24835436.post@talk.nabble.com>
	
Message-ID: <028a00b4$0$5185$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 05 Aug 2009 15:27:51 -0500, Robert Kern wrote:

> On 2009-08-05 15:16, Dr. Phillip M. Feldman wrote:
>> I am using Python 2.5, and most of the cmath functions are not yet
>> available in this version.  Thanks!
>>
>> Phillip
>>
>> P.S. In your code, that should be x+= 0J
>>
>> P.P.S. I wish that the documentation indicated anything that is new.
> 
> It does.
> 
> http://docs.python.org/library/cmath#cmath.phase
> 
> "New in version 2.6."


Furthermore, every release comes with a What's New document:

http://docs.python.org/whatsnew/index.html




-- 
Steven


From lanyjie at yahoo.com  Wed Aug  5 19:05:41 2009
From: lanyjie at yahoo.com (Yingjie Lan)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 16:05:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: using expy to extend python
Message-ID: <871540.68601.qm@web54204.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


Hi,

The expy project provides an express way to extend Python. After some careful considerations, I came up with some reasons for expy (this is not an exhaustive list):

(I). WYSIWYG. The expy project enables you to write your module in Python the way your extension would be (WYSIWYG), and meanwhile write your implementation in pure C. You specify your modules, functions, methods, classes, and even their documentations the usual way of writing your Python correspondences. Then your provide your implementation to the functions/methods by returning a multi-line string. By such an arrangement, everything falls in its right place, and your extension code becomes easy to read and maintain. Also, the generated code is very human-friendly.

(II). You only provide minimal information to indicate your intension of how your module/class would function in Python. So your extension is largely independent from the Python extension API. As your interaction with the Python extension API is reduced to minimal (you only care about the functionality and logic), it is then possible that your module written in expy can be independent of changes in the extension API.

(III). The building and setup of your project can be automatically done with the distutil tool. In the tutorial, there are ample examples on how easily this is achieved.

(IV). Very light weight. The expy tool is surprisingly light weight dispite of its powerful ability, as it is written in pure Python. There is no parser or compiler for code generation, but rather the powerful reflexion mechanism of Python is exploited in a clever way to generate human-friendly codes. Currently, generating code in C is supported, however, the implementation is well modularized and code generation in other languages such as Java and C++ should be easy.

While there are already a couple of other projects trying to simply this task with different strategies, such as Cython, Pyrex and modulator, this project is unique and charming in its own way. All you need is the WYSIWYG Python file for your module extension, then expy takes care of everything else. What follows in this documentation is on how to extend Python in C using expy-cxpy: the module expy helps define your module, while module cxpy helps generate C codes for your defined module.

For more information about expy, please visit its homepage at: http://expy.sf.net/

Cheers,

Yingjie



      


From Samnsparky at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 19:12:09 2009
From: Samnsparky at gmail.com (Sparky)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 16:12:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Two Dimensional Array + ctypes
Message-ID: <79d2b3e3-b049-4d70-a56b-6e7f3ea2fa86@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

Hello! I am trying to call this method:

long _stdcall AIBurst(long *idnum,
			 long demo,
			 long stateIOin,
			 long updateIO,
			 long ledOn,
			 long numChannels,
			 long *channels,
			 long *gains,
			 float *scanRate,
			 long disableCal,
			 long triggerIO,
			 long triggerState,
			 long numScans,
			 long timeout,
			 float (*voltages)[4],
			 long *stateIOout,
			 long *overVoltage,
			 long transferMode);

I am having some problems with that  float (*voltages)[4]. Here is
what I tried:

def aiBurst(self, channels, scanRate, numScans, idNum=None, demo=0,
stateIOin=[0, 0, 0, 0], updateIO=0, ledOn=0, gains=[0, 0, 0, 0],
disableCal=0, triggerIO=0, triggerState=0, timeout=1, transferMode=0):

        if idNum is None:
            idNum = self.id

        idNum = ctypes.c_long(idNum)

        numChannels = len(channels)

        stateIOArray = listToCArray(stateIOin, ctypes.c_long)
        channelsArray = listToCArray(channels, ctypes.c_long)
        gainsArray = listToCArray(gains, ctypes.c_long)
        scanRate = ctypes.c_float(scanRate)
        pointerArray = (ctypes.c_void_p * 4)
        voltages = pointerArray(ctypes.cast(ctypes.pointer
((ctypes.c_long * 4096)()), ctypes.c_void_p), ctypes.cast
(ctypes.pointer((ctypes.c_long * 4096)()), ctypes.c_void_p),
ctypes.cast(ctypes.pointer((ctypes.c_long * 4096)()),
ctypes.c_void_p), ctypes.cast(ctypes.pointer((ctypes.c_long * 4096)
()), ctypes.c_void_p))
        stateIOout = (ctypes.c_long * 4096)()
        overVoltage = ctypes.c_long(999)

        staticLib.AIBurst(ctypes.byref(idNum), demo, stateIOArray,
updateIO, ledOn, numChannels, ctypes.byref(channelsArray), ctypes.byref
(gainsArray), ctypes.byref(scanRate), disableCal, triggerIO,
triggerState, numScans, timeout, ctypes.byref(voltages), ctypes.byref
(stateIOout), ctypes.byref(overVoltage), transferMode)

The program runs but the values that come back in the array are not
right. However, I am not sure if I am passing the array or if I am
just not reading them well afterwards. What is the best way to put
this in and what is the best way to cast it and read it back?

Thanks,
Sam


From nad at acm.org  Wed Aug  5 19:12:10 2009
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 16:12:10 -0700
Subject: Install setup tools for 2.6
References: <373cf0740908051131gacaf77apba48fa40e929f491@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

In article 
<373cf0740908051131gacaf77apba48fa40e929f491 at mail.gmail.com>,
 Jeremy Cowles  wrote:
> Ok, I feel like this is a really stupid question, but how do you install
> setup tools for Python 2.6 under windows?
> The only format is .egg which requires setup tools to install, doesn't it?

http://pypi.python.org/pypi/setuptools#id1

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org



From mensanator at aol.com  Wed Aug  5 19:16:10 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 16:16:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Turtle Graphics are incompatible with gmpy
References: 
	<0002b5d3$0$2970$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4a7936a4$0$1552$91cee783@newsreader03.highway.telekom.at> 
	 
	<4A79C7E2.3000406@aon.at>
	
	
Message-ID: <49395cf2-c2fb-4fd9-b2f2-7f462abe8250@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 5, 5:31?pm, Mensanator  wrote:
> I fixed this to produce the actual image I'm looking
> for instead of that stupid black square. All I did was
> use up() & dowm() in place of penup(), pendown() and
> replace dot(2) with forward(1).
>
> I'll be posting a followup report later.
>

http://www.mensanator.com/mensanator/PythonTurtle/turtle.htm


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Wed Aug  5 19:29:17 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 16:29:17 -0700
Subject: Programming by Contract
Message-ID: <4A7A15CD.9090306@stoneleaf.us>

Greetings!

I have seen posts about the assert statement and PbC (or maybe it was 
DbC), and I just took a very brief look at pycontract 
(http://www.wayforward.net/pycontract/) and now I have at least one 
question:  Is this basically another way of thinking about unit testing, 
or is the idea of PbC more along the lines of *always* checking the 
input/output of functions to ensure they are correct?  (*Contstant 
vigilance!* as Prof Moody would say ;)

I know asserts can be turned off, so they obviously won't work for the 
latter case, and having seen the sample of pycontract it seems it only 
does its thing during debugging.

So is Design (Programming) by Contract a fancy way of saying "Document 
your inputs/outputs!" or is there more to it?

~Ethan~


From wolfgang at rohdewald.de  Wed Aug  5 19:48:36 2009
From: wolfgang at rohdewald.de (Wolfgang Rohdewald)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 01:48:36 +0200
Subject: using expy to extend python
In-Reply-To: <871540.68601.qm@web54204.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <871540.68601.qm@web54204.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200908060148.36696.wolfgang@rohdewald.de>

On Thursday 06 August 2009, Yingjie Lan wrote:
> For more information about expy, please visit its homepage at:
> http://expy.sf.net/

looks very interesting, bookmarked.

In your example class mate, def rename looks wrong:
if malloc fails, the previous name should probably not
be replaced by an empty string?

-- 
Wolfgang


From macmanes at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 19:54:46 2009
From: macmanes at gmail.com (PeroMHC)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 16:54:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: remove last 76 letters from string
Message-ID: 

Hi All, So here is the problem... I have a FASTA file (used for DNA
analyses) that looks like this:

...
>gnl|SRA|SRR019045.10.1 SL-XAY_956090708:2:1:0:1028.1 length=152
NCTTTTTTTATTTTTTGTATAAATGAAGTTTCACTATATCGGACGAGCGGTTCAGCAGTCATTCCGAGAC
CGATATAGTGAAACTTCATTTCTACAAAAANTACCAAACGTCGCTCGGCAGAGCGTCGTGTTGGGCAAGA
GAGTAGCACTCG
>gnl|SRA|SRR019045.11.1 SL-XAY_956090708:2:1:0:1151.1 length=152
NGGTNTGGNNNNCNCCNTNCTNCNNCNTCANCCTCCNGTCNCANNCCNCNTNNNNNCNNNNNCNNTNCTT
CTNCNNTCTCCATTCCTTCTTNATAGCCTGCTCCANCGCACGTTGAACCTTCTGCACCACGAACGCACTC
ACACCACTCATC
>gnl|SRA|SRR019045.12.1 SL-XAY_956090708:2:1:0:1197.1 length=152
NGTCGGGTCTTCGCTATCACTGGACTGCTCCCATCAGCTATAGGTCCTCCCCGCCACACCCCATGCCCAC
CGCCTATCCACGTCTGTCACAACCTCATACATCAGACAGTCACACTTACCAACATATCCAAGCACCTCAA
GCAACACATCAT
...

This snippet represents 3 individual DNA sequences. Each sequences is
identified by the line starting with >
The complete file has about 10 million individual sequences.

A simple enough problem, I want to read in this data, and cut out the
last 76 letters (nucleotides) from each individual sequence and send
them to a new txt file with a similar format.

Any help on how to do this would be appreciated.
Thanks!


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Wed Aug  5 20:23:06 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 02:23:06 +0200
Subject: remove last 76 letters from string
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Dnia 06-08-2009 o 01:54:46 PeroMHC  wrote:

> This snippet represents 3 individual DNA sequences. Each sequences is
> identified by the line starting with >
> The complete file has about 10 million individual sequences.
>
> A simple enough problem, I want to read in this data, and cut out the
> last 76 letters (nucleotides) from each individual sequence and send
> them to a new txt file with a similar format.

If I understand correctly you want sth like this:


with open(path_to_the_input_file) as fasta:
     with open(path_to_the_input_file) as nucleotides:
	for seq in fasta:
             print >>nucleotides, '> foo bar length=76'
             print >>nucleotides, seq[-76]


Cheers,
*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Wed Aug  5 20:24:22 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 02:24:22 +0200
Subject: remove last 76 letters from string [sorry, errata]
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Dnia 06-08-2009 o 01:54:46 PeroMHC  wrote:

> This snippet represents 3 individual DNA sequences. Each sequences is
> identified by the line starting with >
> The complete file has about 10 million individual sequences.
>
> A simple enough problem, I want to read in this data, and cut out the
> last 76 letters (nucleotides) from each individual sequence and send
> them to a new txt file with a similar format.

If I understand correctly you want sth like this:


with open(path_to_the_input_file) as fasta:
       with open(path_to_the_output_file) as nucleotides:
	for seq in fasta:
               print >>nucleotides, '> foo bar length=76'
               print >>nucleotides, seq[-76]


Cheers,
*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Aug  5 20:26:22 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 01:26:22 +0100
Subject: String to valid Python identifier
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A7A232E.1060402@mrabarnett.plus.com>

?????? ??????????? wrote:
> Is there any easy function in the stdlib to convert any random string in 
> a valid Python identifier .. possibly by replacing non-valid characters 
> with _ ?
> 
> Python 2.x only, so no need to do Unicode.
> 
Lookup the 'maketrans' function in the 'string' module and the
'translate' method of the 'str' class.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Aug  5 20:32:22 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 01:32:22 +0100
Subject: remove last 76 letters from string
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A7A2496.4080808@mrabarnett.plus.com>

PeroMHC wrote:
> Hi All, So here is the problem... I have a FASTA file (used for DNA
> analyses) that looks like this:
> 
> ...
>> gnl|SRA|SRR019045.10.1 SL-XAY_956090708:2:1:0:1028.1 length=152
> NCTTTTTTTATTTTTTGTATAAATGAAGTTTCACTATATCGGACGAGCGGTTCAGCAGTCATTCCGAGAC
> CGATATAGTGAAACTTCATTTCTACAAAAANTACCAAACGTCGCTCGGCAGAGCGTCGTGTTGGGCAAGA
> GAGTAGCACTCG
>> gnl|SRA|SRR019045.11.1 SL-XAY_956090708:2:1:0:1151.1 length=152
> NGGTNTGGNNNNCNCCNTNCTNCNNCNTCANCCTCCNGTCNCANNCCNCNTNNNNNCNNNNNCNNTNCTT
> CTNCNNTCTCCATTCCTTCTTNATAGCCTGCTCCANCGCACGTTGAACCTTCTGCACCACGAACGCACTC
> ACACCACTCATC
>> gnl|SRA|SRR019045.12.1 SL-XAY_956090708:2:1:0:1197.1 length=152
> NGTCGGGTCTTCGCTATCACTGGACTGCTCCCATCAGCTATAGGTCCTCCCCGCCACACCCCATGCCCAC
> CGCCTATCCACGTCTGTCACAACCTCATACATCAGACAGTCACACTTACCAACATATCCAAGCACCTCAA
> GCAACACATCAT
> ...
> 
> This snippet represents 3 individual DNA sequences. Each sequences is
> identified by the line starting with >
> The complete file has about 10 million individual sequences.
> 
> A simple enough problem, I want to read in this data, and cut out the
> last 76 letters (nucleotides) from each individual sequence and send
> them to a new txt file with a similar format.
> 
> Any help on how to do this would be appreciated.
> Thanks!

If the input file is large then you can reduce the amount of memory
needed by reading the input file a line at a time by iterating over the
file object:

     input_file = open(input_path)
     for line in input_file:
         ...
     input_file.close()

Each line will end with '\n', so use the 'rstrip' method to remove it,
and then slice the last 76 characters:

     last_part = line.rstrip()[-76 : ]


From darkneter at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 20:39:52 2009
From: darkneter at gmail.com (NighterNet)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 17:39:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: sqlite3 gui
Message-ID: <3d2c4f7a-9d9b-4aff-9de1-141ecf4327de@x6g2000prc.googlegroups.com>

This took a while to get a gui working. I am new at this coding.

This work with sqlite3 Python Version: 3.1.0. The older version
doesn't work.

#!/usr/local/bin/python
'''
    This is for basic database access to view the information.
Python version: 3.1.0

Features:
-view database.
-run script
-update row
-delete row
-insert row

To do list:
-delete table
-create table
-export database
-import database
-primary id need to able to insert to the table
-delete table row
-refresh data

Note:
-It doesn't remove the GUI
-It bit buggy.
-Python version: 3.0.1 -Doesn't support the gui

execute script without '"' ->  INSERT INTO member (user, password)
VALUES( "admin", "admin")
'''

from tkinter import *
from tkinter import ttk
from tkinter import tix
import sqlite3 as sqlite
import re

DATABASE = 'nameofdatabasefile.db'
title = "Sqlite3 Database";

db = sqlite.connect(DATABASE);
cur = db.cursor();

print("#==============================#")
print("# Python Version: 3.1.0        #")
print("# sqlite3                      #")
print("#==============================#")

class Application(Frame):
    #label_serverstatus = Label()
    table = []
    tablename = ''
    tablerowid = ''
    tablecolid = '0'
    tablerowname = ''
    tablevarinput = []
    tablevartext = []
    tableentrywidgetrow = []
    tablelabelwidgetrow = []

    def __init__(self, master=None):
        Frame.__init__(self, master)
        self.master.grid_columnconfigure(0, weight=1)
        self.master.grid_rowconfigure(0, weight=1)
        self.master.title(title)
        self.listtable()#Make a list table
        self.createWidgets()
        self.master.geometry("800x600")
        self.pack()
    def listtable(self):
        self.table = []
        cur.execute("select * from sqlite_master WHERE type='table'");
        for t in cur:
            #print (t[1])
            self.table.append(t[1])

    #Create Widgets
    def createWidgets(self):
        #Schema
        self.Schemaframe = ttk.Labelframe(self, text='Schema',
width=600, height=100)
        self.Schemaframe.grid(column=1, row=1, sticky=W)
        self.text_database = Label(self.Schemaframe)
        self.text_database["text"] = "Schema Database:" + DATABASE
        self.text_database.grid(column=1, row=1, sticky=W)

        #Table
        self.tableframe = ttk.Labelframe(self, text='Schema Table',
width=600, height=100)
        self.tableframe.grid(column=1, row=2, sticky=W)
        self.text_table = Label(self.tableframe)
        self.text_table["text"] = "table:"
        self.text_table.grid(column=1, row=1, sticky=W)

        self.combobox = ttk.Combobox(self.tableframe)
        self.combobox.grid(column=2, row=1, sticky=W)
        self.combobox["values"] = self.table
        self.combobox.bind('<>', self.table_click)
        self.combobox.current(1)

        self.button_deletetable = Button(self.tableframe)
        self.button_deletetable["text"] = "Delete Table"
        self.button_deletetable.grid(column=3, row=1, sticky=W)

        self.button_createtable = Button(self.tableframe)
        self.button_createtable["text"] = "Create Table"
        self.button_createtable.grid(column=4, row=1, sticky=W)

        #Table
        self.scriptframe = ttk.Labelframe(self, text='Schema Script',
width=600, height=100)
        self.scriptframe.grid(column=1, row=3, sticky=W)

        self.button_script = Button(self.scriptframe)
        self.button_script["text"] = "Exeute script"
        self.button_script["command"] = self.executescript
        self.button_script.grid(column=1, row=1, sticky=W)

        self.button_commit = Button(self.scriptframe)
        self.button_commit["text"] = "Commit"
        self.button_commit["command"] = self.commit_save
        self.button_commit.grid(column=2, row=1, sticky=W)

        #TEXT BOX
        self.textbox = Text(self.scriptframe, width=40, height=10)
        self.textbox.grid(column=1, row=2, sticky=W,columnspan=6)

        #TABLE FRAME LIST
        self.tablerowframe = ttk.Labelframe(self, text='Table Rows',
width=600, height=100)
        self.tablerowframe.grid(column=2, row=1, sticky=W,rowspan=3)

        #TABLE ROW LIST
        self.listbox = Listbox(self.tablerowframe, exportselection=0,
background="white")
        self.listbox.bind("<>",self.listselect_click)
        self.listbox.grid(column=1, row=1, sticky=W)

        #vbar
        self.vbar = Scrollbar(self.tablerowframe, name="vbar")
        self.vbar.grid(column=1, row=1, sticky=E)
        self.vbar.configure(orient=VERTICAL,
command=self.listbox.yview)
        self.listbox.configure(yscrollcommand=self.vbar.set)

        self.button_createrow = Button(self.tablerowframe)
        self.button_createrow["text"] = "Create Table Row"
        self.button_createrow["command"] = self.commit_save
        self.button_createrow.grid(column=1, row=2, sticky=W)

        #TABLE FRAME ROW EDIT
        self.tablerowframe = ttk.Labelframe(self, text='Table Rows
EDIT', width=256, height=480)
        self.tablerowframe.grid(column=1, row=4, sticky=W)

    #SELECT TABLE FROM COMBOBOX
    def table_click(self,event):
        #print("click")
        self.tablename = str(self.combobox.selection_get())
        print(self.tablename)
        self.tableselected(self.tablename);
        return "break"

    #SHOW TABLE ROWS IN THE LIST BOX
    def tableselected(self,name):
        #print("TABLE SELECT ->" + str(name))
        cur.execute("select * from " + name);
        self.listbox.delete(0, "end")
        for t in cur:
            #print (t)
            #print (t[1])#table
            #spreadsheet.append(t[1])
            self.listbox.insert("end", str(t[0]))
        #self.listbox["listvariable"] = spreadsheet

    #CLICK TABLE ROW SELECTED ID OR ROW NAME
    def listselect_click(self,event):
        rowid = self.listbox.curselection()
        rowid = self.listbox.index(rowid)
        #print(self.listbox.get(rowid))
        self.tablerowid = rowid
        self.tablerowname = self.listbox.get(rowid)
        self.selecttablerow()
        return "break"

    #TABLE ROW INFORMATION
    def selecttablerow(self):
        #print ("TABLE ROW ->")
        self.tablevartext = []
        self.tablevarinput = []

        cur.execute("select * from sqlite_master WHERE type='table'");
        for t in cur:
            if self.tablename == t[1]:
                #print (t)
                tablestr = t[4].replace("CREATE TABLE "
+self.tablename + " ",'')
                tablestr = tablestr.replace("(","")
                tablestr = tablestr.replace(")","")
                comumndata = tablestr.split(',')

                for col in comumndata:
                    col = col.strip()
                    m = re.match(r"(^(\w+))",col)
                    #print (m.group(0))#column name of the table
current selected.
                    self.tablevartext.append(m.group(0))
                break

        query = str('SELECT * FROM ' + self.tablename + " WHERE id=\'"
+ self.tablerowname + "\'")
        #print(query)
        cur.execute(query);
        #table row out put
        for t in cur:
            #print (t)
            for vardata in t:
                #print(vardata)
                self.tablevarinput.append(vardata)
        self.deletetablerowinput
        self.createtablerowinput()

    def createtablerowinput(self):
        self.deletetablerowinput()
        rowcount = 0
        #self.button_destroy = Button(self.tablerowframe)
        #self.button_destroy["text"] = "delete rows"
        #self.button_destroy["command"] = self.deletetablerowinput
        #self.button_destroy.grid(column=1, row=1, sticky=W)

        self.button_deleterowtable = Button(self.tablerowframe)
        self.button_deleterowtable["text"] = "Delete Table Row"
        self.button_deleterowtable["command"] = self.deletetablerow
        self.button_deleterowtable.grid(column=1, row=1, sticky=W)

        self.button_updatetablerow = Button(self.tablerowframe)
        self.button_updatetablerow["text"] = "Update Table Row"
        self.button_updatetablerow["command"] = self.updatetablerow
        self.button_updatetablerow.grid(column=2, row=1, sticky=W)

        self.button_inserttablerow = Button(self.tablerowframe)
        self.button_inserttablerow["text"] = "Insert Table Row"
        self.button_inserttablerow["command"] = self.inserttablerow
        self.button_inserttablerow.grid(column=3, row=1, sticky=W)

        for columnname in self.tablevartext:
            #print(columnname)
            self.entry_tablevarrow = Entry(self.tablerowframe,
width=30, textvariable=columnname)
            self.entry_tablevarrow.delete(0,"end")
            self.entry_tablevarrow.insert(0,str(self.tablevarinput
[rowcount]))
            self.entry_tablevarrow.grid(column=2, row=rowcount+2,
sticky=W)
            self.tableentrywidgetrow.append(self.entry_tablevarrow)

            self.label_var = Label(self.tablerowframe, width=16)
            self.label_var['text'] = columnname
            self.label_var.grid(column=1, row=rowcount+2, sticky=W)
            self.tablelabelwidgetrow.append(self.label_var)
            #print(rowcount)
            rowcount += 1
    def updatetablerow(self):
        count = 0;
        #mysql_query("UPDATE  $db_table SET imageid='{$hashname}'
WHERE idhash='{$IDIMAGE}'")
        query = "UPDATE " + self.tablename
        set = " SET "
        where = "WHERE"
        for x in self.tableentrywidgetrow:
            if count == 0:
                where = where + " " + x["textvariable"] + "=\'" + x.get
() + "\' "
            else:
                if count == len(self.tableentrywidgetrow)-1:
                    set = set + "" + x["textvariable"] + "=\'" + x.get
() + "\' "
                else:
                    set = set + "" + x["textvariable"] + "=\'" + x.get
() + "\', "

            print ( x["textvariable"] + "->" +  x.get())
            count += 1
        print (query + set + where)
        querystring = query + set + where
        self.applydata(querystring)
        #print (len(self.tableentrywidgetrow))
    def deletetablerow(self):
        count = 0;
        query = "DELETE FROM " + self.tablename + " WHERE "
        delete = ""
        for x in self.tableentrywidgetrow:
            if count == len(self.tableentrywidgetrow)-1:
                delete = delete + "" + x["textvariable"] + "=\'" +
x.get() + "\' "
            else:
                delete = delete + "" + x["textvariable"] + "=\'" +
x.get() + "\' AND "
            count += 1
        print (query + delete)
        querystring = query + delete
        self.applydata(querystring)
        #print (len(self.tableentrywidgetrow))
    def inserttablerow(self):
        #cur.execute('INSERT INTO member (user, password) VALUES
( "admin", "admin")')
        count = 0;
        query = "INSERT INTO " + self.tablename + "("
        values = ""
        insert = ""
        #be sure it not the primary key else it will give error
        for x in self.tableentrywidgetrow:
            if count == len(self.tableentrywidgetrow)-1:
                values = values + x["textvariable"] + ''
                insert = insert + '\"' + x.get() + '\"'
            else:
                if count == 0:
                    print ("PRIMARY KEY")
                else:
                    values = values + x["textvariable"] + ','
                    insert = insert + '\"' + x.get() + '\",'

            count += 1

        querystring = query + values + ") VALUES(" + insert + ")"
        print (querystring)
        self.applydata(querystring)
        #print (len(self.tableentrywidgetrow))

    def deletetablerowinput(self):
        for x in self.tableentrywidgetrow:
            x.destroy()
        self.tableentrywidgetrow = []
        for y in self.tablelabelwidgetrow:
            x.destroy()
        self.tablelabelwidgetrow = []

    #SCRIPTS ++++++
    def executescript(self):
        print("Execute Script...")
        scripttext = self.textbox.get('1.0', 'end')
        self.applydata(scripttext)
        print(scripttext)
    #COMMIT +++++++
    def commit_save(self):
        print("Sqlite3 Commit")
        db.commit()
    def applydata(self,querystr):
        print("Sqlite3 Commit")
        db = sqlite.connect(DATABASE);
        cur = db.cursor()
        cur.execute(querystr)
        db.commit()

root = Tk()
app = Application(master=root)
app.mainloop()
root.destroy()

Not sure what you guys think about this. Still working on it. I can't
hard code this well. Still learning it. >.<


From lanyjie at yahoo.com  Wed Aug  5 20:40:18 2009
From: lanyjie at yahoo.com (Yingjie Lan)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 17:40:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: using expy to extend python
In-Reply-To: <200908060148.36696.wolfgang@rohdewald.de>
Message-ID: <870509.8482.qm@web54208.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


> From: Wolfgang Rohdewald 
> Subject: Re: using expy to extend python
> To: python-list at python.org
> Date: Thursday, August 6, 2009, 3:48 AM
> On Thursday 06 August 2009, Yingjie
> Lan wrote:
> > For more information about expy, please visit its
> homepage at:
> > http://expy.sf.net/
> 
> looks very interesting, bookmarked.
> 

Glad to hear that! Thanks.

> In your example class mate, def rename looks wrong:
> if malloc fails, the previous name should probably not
> be replaced by an empty string?
> 

Thanks for pointing that out. Probably should throw an exception if malloc fails. 

Yingjie


      


From gregor.lingl at aon.at  Wed Aug  5 20:49:44 2009
From: gregor.lingl at aon.at (Gregor Lingl)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 02:49:44 +0200
Subject: Turtle Graphics are incompatible with gmpy
In-Reply-To: <49395cf2-c2fb-4fd9-b2f2-7f462abe8250@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<0002b5d3$0$2970$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4a7936a4$0$1552$91cee783@newsreader03.highway.telekom.at>
	
	<4A79C7E2.3000406@aon.at>
	
	
	<49395cf2-c2fb-4fd9-b2f2-7f462abe8250@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a7a28b3$0$2303$91cee783@newsreader01.highway.telekom.at>

Mensanator schrieb:
> On Aug 5, 5:31 pm, Mensanator  wrote:
>> I fixed this to produce the actual image I'm looking
>> for instead of that stupid black square. All I did was
>> use up() & dowm() in place of penup(), pendown() and
>> replace dot(2) with forward(1).
>>
>> I'll be posting a followup report later.
>>
> 
> http://www.mensanator.com/mensanator/PythonTurtle/turtle.htm

Hi Mansanator,

Thanks for that thorough investigations.
I hope I'll soon find time to study it in detail.

I've just one idea, but I don't know if you might
be intersted in it or if it's rewarding at all:

What would be the results when using the old turtle
module with Python 3.1 (it will certainly not run
out of the box, but perhaps 2to3 might do it?)

That would clarify the question if there is some
impact of new division or some changes in Tkinter.

Best regards,
Gregor


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Wed Aug  5 20:54:07 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 21:54:07 -0300
Subject: Datetime with float seconds
References: 
Message-ID: 

En Wed, 05 Aug 2009 09:50:04 -0300, kpal 
escribi?:

> The standard datetime has 1 microsecond granularity.

Note that this is the finest granularity a datetime object can store, NOT
the precision of datetime.now() by example.

> My application
> needs finer time resolution, preferably float seconds.

"float seconds" doesn't mean much. time.time returns float seconds, but
its precision is around 15ms on Windows.

> Is there an
> alternative to the out-of-the-box datetime? Timezone support is not
> essential.

On Windows, use time.clock(), which internally uses
QueryPerformanceCounter. The resolution depends on your hardware, but it's
typically better than 1 microsecond. If you want to know the actual value:

py> from ctypes import *
py> kernel32=windll.kernel32
py> QueryPerformanceCounter=kernel32.QueryPerformanceCounter
py> QueryPerformanceFrequency=kernel32.QueryPerformanceFrequency
py> plonglong = POINTER(c_longlong)
py> QueryPerformanceFrequency.argtypes = [plonglong]
py> freq = c_longlong()
py> QueryPerformanceFrequency(byref(freq))
1
py> freq
c_longlong(3579545L)

That is, on my system the resolution is 1/3579545s, or better than 300ns

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Wed Aug  5 20:54:16 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 21:54:16 -0300
Subject: Install setup tools for 2.6
References: <373cf0740908051131gacaf77apba48fa40e929f491@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

En Wed, 05 Aug 2009 15:31:38 -0300, Jeremy Cowles
 escribi?:

> Ok, I feel like this is a really stupid question, but how do you install
> setup tools for Python 2.6 under windows?
> The only format is .egg which requires setup tools to install, doesn't  
> it?

I have no idea, and I try to stay as far away from setuptools/ez_setup as
I can. I think they solve some kind of problems for some kind of people
(else the tool would be defunct by now), but haven't worked for me.
Perhaps you don't need setuptools either?

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From mensanator at aol.com  Wed Aug  5 21:31:00 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 18:31:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Turtle Graphics are incompatible with gmpy
References: 
	<0002b5d3$0$2970$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4a7936a4$0$1552$91cee783@newsreader03.highway.telekom.at> 
	 
	<4A79C7E2.3000406@aon.at>
	
	 
	<49395cf2-c2fb-4fd9-b2f2-7f462abe8250@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> 
	<4a7a28b3$0$2303$91cee783@newsreader01.highway.telekom.at>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 5, 7:49?pm, Gregor Lingl  wrote:
> Mensanator schrieb:
>
> > On Aug 5, 5:31 pm, Mensanator  wrote:
> >> I fixed this to produce the actual image I'm looking
> >> for instead of that stupid black square. All I did was
> >> use up() & dowm() in place of penup(), pendown() and
> >> replace dot(2) with forward(1).
>
> >> I'll be posting a followup report later.
>
> >http://www.mensanator.com/mensanator/PythonTurtle/turtle.htm
>
> Hi Mansanator,
>
> Thanks for that thorough investigations.
> I hope I'll soon find time to study it in detail.
>
> I've just one idea, but I don't know if you might
> be intersted in it or if it's rewarding at all:

Sure, not tonight, of course, but I can give it try.

>
> What would be the results when using the old turtle
> module with Python 3.1 (it will certainly not run
> out of the box, but perhaps 2to3 might do it?)

I would just need to copy turtle.py to 3.1 Lib (renamed,
of course)?

>
> That would clarify the question if there is some
> impact of new division or some changes in Tkinter.

I had a quick glance through the code. Not too many divisions
and most of them seemd to already be forcing float division
by constructs such as mutiplying by 1.0 (which I assume isn't
strictly neccessary as long as / and // are used correctly.

It seemed a lot of floats were used in the 2.5 code as I saw
such stuff as int(difference), so I really don't know why
.mpz would be a problem since they are integers also and a
Python int ought to be the same thing when coerced to a float
(at least in the range used by Turtle graphics.

>
> Best regards,
> Gregor



From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Wed Aug  5 21:31:56 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 01:31:56 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
References: 
	<1249487636.7120.798.camel@arrakis>
Message-ID: 

Jason Tackaberry  urandom.ca> writes:
> On Wed, 2009-08-05 at 16:43 +0200, Michael Str?der wrote:
> > These both expressions are equivalent but which is faster or should be used
> > for any reason?
> > u = unicode(s,'utf-8')
> > u = s.decode('utf-8') # looks nicer
> 
> It is sometimes non-obvious which constructs are faster than others in
> Python.  I also regularly have these questions, but it's pretty easy to
> run quick (albeit naive) benchmarks to see.
> 
> The first thing to try is to have a look at the bytecode for each:
[snip] 
> The presence of LOAD_ATTR in the first form hints that this is probably
> going to be slower.   Next, actually try it:
> 
>         >>> import timeit
>         >>> timeit.timeit('"foobarbaz".decode("utf-8")')
>         1.698289155960083
>         >>> timeit.timeit('unicode("foobarbaz", "utf-8")')
>         0.53305888175964355
> 
> So indeed, uncode(s, 'utf-8') is faster by a fair margin.

Faster by an enormous margin; attributing this to the cost of attribute lookup
seems implausible.

Suggested further avenues of investigation:

(1) Try the timing again with "cp1252" and "utf8" and "utf_8"

(2) grep "utf-8" /Objects/unicodeobject.c

HTH,
John



From digitalhillbilly at hotmail.com  Wed Aug  5 21:40:57 2009
From: digitalhillbilly at hotmail.com (DH)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 18:40:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: access read / write violation with ctypes
Message-ID: 

Hi all,

I'm quite new to cytpes and am having some troubles I was hoping I
could get a little help with. Before I get into the details this is
what I'm trying to accomplish - I would like to read a dng with python
pass it through either libraw.dll or dcraw.dll (notes on dcraw.dll
version at the end) for initial processing then to MagickWand for some
light enhancement and final jpeg output. After I get these working I
will see how I can add LittleCMS into the fray. I'm not doing
something correctly but don't know what. I've read a lot of documents
over the past couple days and though I've learned quite a lot I just
can't get past this access violation error.

I very grateful for anything that can be offered.

dh

...

I am currently working out MagickWand and dcraw separately but am
having similar troubles with both resulting in either 'Windows Error:
exception: access violation reading 0x00000000' or alternatively
'Windows Error: ... writing'

1 - MagickWand (read violation):

I'm using popen to capture dcraw stdout and want to pass it to
magickwand. If I instead write the dcraw output to a file then read it
with magickwand I get the same error. But if I comment out the dcraw
protion and read the dcraw output file from the previous attempt,
MagickWand opens the file fine and I can manipulate it to my hearts
content. The basics:

proc = subprocess.Popen("dcraw -c -4 -T image.dng", shell=True,
close_fds=False, stdout=subprocess.PIPE).communicate()[0]

magickWandLib = 'C:\\Program Files (x86)\\ImageMagick-6.5.3-Q16\
\CORE_RL_wand_.dll'
Magick = cdll.LoadLibrary(magickWandLib)

Magick.MagickWandGenesis()
wand = Magick.NewMagickWand()

Magick.MagickReadImageFile(proc)
-> access violation reading

2 - DCRaw (write violation):

I've been bouncing between libraw.dll and dcraw.dll. The dcraw version
I'm using is found at
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=es&tl=en&u=http://www.ojodigital.com/foro/perfectraw-perfectblend/206898-perfectraw-0-5-a.html
. Libraw is limited in the sence that it is mainly suited to loading
and unpacking raw images. Actual processing is done only in emulation
mode which I have not yet been able to access throught the library.
PerfectRaw uses a tweaked and librarised version of dcraw with thier
GUI + some enhanced functions. I'm only interesed in the dll though

2.1 - libraw.dll

I won't go into great detail as I can get it to work but only open,
unpack and write out a tiff or ppm. No process settings

2.2 - dcraw.dll

I can load the library but cannot initialise an instance. Each attempt
in a variety or methods always returns an 'access violation writing
0x00000000'. The parameters I use to initialise are taken from a test
program provided by the authors.

test app:
	int w,h;
	printf("Resultado de leer el RAW: %i\n",DCRAW_Init("c:\\test\
\IMG_4118.CR2",&w,&h)

python:
	dcraw_lib = 'C:\\programs\\PerfectRaw\\dcraw.dll'
	dcraw = ctypes.cdll.LoadLibrary(dcraw_lib)

	img = 'C:\\programs\\PerfectRaw\\image.dng'
	dcraw.DCRAW_Init(img,4000,3000) # canon G9 converted to dng
	-> access violation writing



From gforgx at lavabit.com  Wed Aug  5 21:51:52 2009
From: gforgx at lavabit.com (Sergey Simonenko)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 19:51:52 -0600
Subject: Subclassing Python's dict
Message-ID: 

Hi,

I subclass builtin 'dict' in my application and experience some problems  
with it.

The whole issue is that I should redefine 'setdefault' and 'update'  
methods after redefining '__setitem__' or/and '__delitem__',
otherwise 'update' and 'setdefault' ignore redefined '__setitem__' and use  
builtin dict's one so dict looks kinda like a black box.

Another guy have reported me that he experiences similar problems with  
subclassing builtin 'list'.

Kind regards, Sergey.

-- 
???????? ? ???????? ??????? ???????? Opera: http://www.opera.com/mail/



From cocobear.cn at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 22:17:53 2009
From: cocobear.cn at gmail.com (cocobear)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 19:17:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: merge two png pic
References: 
	 
	
	<006617e3-6630-4f04-bff1-99c58dbb6cb5@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<4a77e249$0$2449$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<72d7aad1-1fb7-4b32-a87f-636505b0faa2@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
	<4a793852$0$19598$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <69579cfc-9151-43df-a5ef-a6b05f1bd718@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 5, 3:44?pm, News123  wrote:
> You didn't really tell us why you need one big file, which contains more
> pixel, than you can probably store in RAM
>

In fact I do not need such a big image.
I just want to know the solution.


> Is it for printing?
> Not knwoing your goal makes it difficult to suggest solutions.
>
> Can't you use other image formats like raw RGB or
> What other image formats are supported?
> tiff? Raw? PPM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portable_pixmap)?
>

I want to view image use Windows Pic View.

I don't familiar with PPM? photoshop don't support PPM, does PIL
support this format?


> concatenating raw/ppm files with the same width would be really trivial.
>
> so you could use python to create horizontal raw/ppm stripes.
>
> then you could concatenate them without having to have the whole image
> in RAM.
>
> Perhaps there's even converters from ppm to png, that don't need the
> whole image in RAM.
>
>
>
> cocobear wrote:
> > On Aug 4, 3:24 pm, News123  wrote:
> >> Hi,
>
> >> cocobear wrote:
> >>>>>>> Map = Image.new("RGB", (x,y))
> >>>>>>> Map.paste(im, box)
> >>>>>>> Map.paste(im1,box)
> >>>>>>> Map = Map.convert("L", optimize=True, palette=Image.ADAPTIVE)
> >>>>>>> But if thetwopngpicis too big , or if I have tomergemorepic
> >>>>>>> together, I will get MemoryError:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Image.new("RGB",(44544,38656))
> >>>> What do you want to do with such a big image? You will run into the same
> >>>> limitation when you are trying to display it.
> >>> I want to download a map from google map with high precision
> >> For me it sounds strange to handle such big files.
>
> >> Is the map you download from Google really that big?
> >> Mostly Google maps uses normally tiles of sizes 256x256 pixel, wich you
> >> have to compose to get the ?big image.
>
> > The map I downloaded from Google is small(256x256). These small maps
> > will compose a big image.
>
> >> If your problem is to combine tiles with different palettes, then you
> >> should pobably look at a way to ?'unify' the palette of all tiles befor
> >> combining them.
>
> > I think it is impossible to 'unify' all this tiles.
>
> >> Being no expert of PIL I don't know whether this is easily possible though?
>
> >> bye
>
> >> N



From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 23:19:37 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 20:19:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Subclassing Python's dict
References: 
	<2d56febf0908050732i7792bf7ft32accf1bc1157421@mail.gmail.com> 
	
Message-ID: 

Xavier Ho wrote:
> You should subclass collections.UserDict, and not the default dict class.
> Refer to the collections module.

Xavier, why do you think that is the correct approach? The docs say
"The need for this class has been largely supplanted by the ability to
subclass directly from dict (a feature that became available starting
with Python version 2.2)."

If you mean that Sergey should subclass _in this instance_ could you
please explain why? (Sorry if you already have, I never saw your
original post...)




From rt8396 at gmail.com  Wed Aug  5 23:35:43 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 20:35:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	
	
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	
Message-ID: <93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 4, 12:55?am, David Lyon  wrote:
> It isn't totally about the writers...
> Peoples egos are also at stake - it seems.
> If "Fred X wrote Doc Y".. they don't want their name taken off.. So
> they generally speaking don't want the docs changed.
> If you talk too much about docs.. you can be told you're OT..
> even in a thread about docs...

This is the most honest post within this thread. Yes i believe --
although it does not make me happy-- that many within this community
are hostile, vulgar, and viscous towards any notion of change if it
comes from outside the "insiders" group (and even sometimes from the
inside). Which is very sad.

Yes sometimes people are just trolling, but this tread has nothing to
do with trolling. kj has a legitimate complaint. Do i believe the docs
are a complete waste of bytes, No! Many people have invested tons of
hard work into them (and i thank them for their hard work). But i do
believe --like all things in this word-- perfection is always just out
of hands reach, we must constantly seek perfection because we can
never attain it. Like any group effort, eventually it will adopt the
idioms of self indulgence. Python dev needs the input of those who are
not experts in the language --especially in the realm of docs.

It is so easy to forget the struggles we face when learning something
new. The accessibility and appeal of Python to new users is in the
best interest of this community. If you don't believe that, you are
pissing on all the years of hard work that has been put in here. You
might as well just tell Guido to "close up shop"

I have posted this once before but i will post it again. Please read
Christopher's words carefully because they apply to this community in
a big way...Don't fall into the trap of narcissism.

Christopher Lasch referring to the pitfalls of Narcissistic societies:

"""In such a society of constant competition, there can be no allies,
and little transparency. The threats to
acquisitions of social symbols are so numerous, varied and frequently
incomprehensible, that defensiveness, as well as competitiveness,
becomes a way of life. Any real sense of community is undermined -- or
even destroyed -- to be replaced by virtual equivalents that strive,
unsuccessfully, to synthesize a sense of community."""

While I agree that some narcissism is vital to an individuals ego in
competitive atmospheres, I do not believe the Python community
warrants this need.


From rays at blue-cove.com  Thu Aug  6 00:21:13 2009
From: rays at blue-cove.com (RayS)
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 21:21:13 -0700
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
In-Reply-To: <93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro
	ups.com>
References: 
	
	
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

From davea at ieee.org  Thu Aug  6 00:51:19 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 00:51:19 -0400
Subject: Error on Attaching to the process while debugging
In-Reply-To: <21dbc649-2f82-4e4c-9777-c8a58c25a9e0@r2g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <21dbc649-2f82-4e4c-9777-c8a58c25a9e0@r2g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A7A6147.5030901@ieee.org>


MalC0de wrote:
> Hello there, I'm writting a debugger,
> the problem is there no good interpretation ...
>
> here's the codes:
>
> my_debugger.py :
>
> #!/usr/bin/env python
> from ctypes import *
> from my_debugger_defines import *
> kernel32 = windll.kernel32
> class debugger():
>     def __init__(self):
> 	  self.h_process = None
> 	  self.pid = None
> 	  self.debugger_active = False
>           pass
>     def load(self,path_to_exe):
>         creation_flags = DEBUG_PROCESS
>         startupinfo = STARTUPINFO()
>         process_information = PROCESSINFORMATION()
>         startupinfo.dwFlags = 0x1
>         startupinfo.wShowWindow = 0x0
>         startupinfo.cb = sizeof(startupinfo)
>         if kernel32.CreateProcessA(path_to_exe,
>                                     None,
>                                     None,
>                                     None,
>                                     None,
>                                     creation_flags,
>                                     None,
>                                     None,
>                                     byref(startupinfo),
>                                     byref(process_information)):
>                   print "[*]we have sucessfully launched the process"
>                   print "[*]PID %d" % process_information.dwProcessId
>                   self.h_process = self.open_process
> (process_information.dwProcessId)
>         else:
>             print"[*]Error 0x%08x." % kernel32.GetLastError()
>
> def Open_process(self,pid):
>     h_process = kernel32.OpenProcess(PROCESS_ALL_ACCESS,pid,False)
>     return h_process
> def attach(self,pid):
>         self.h_process = self.open_process(pid)
>         # We attempt to attach to the process
>         # if this fails we exit the call
>         if kernel32.DebugActiveProcess(pid):
>             self.debugger_active = True
>             self.pid             = int(pid)
>
>         else:
>             print "[*] Unable to attach to the process."
>
> def run(self):
>     while self.debugger_active == True:
>         self.get_debug_event()
> def get_debug_event(self):
>     debug_event = DEBUG_EVENT()
>     continue_status = DBG_CONTINUE
>     if kernel32.WaitForDebugEvent(byref(debug_event),INFINITE):
>         raw_input("Press a key to continue ...")
>     self.debugger_active = False
>     kernel32.ContinueDebugEvent
> (debug_event.dwProdcessid,debug_event.dwThreadId,continue_status)
>     def detach(self):
>         if kernel32.DeugActiveProcessStop(self.pid):
>             print "[*]Finished debugging. exiting ..."
>             return True
>         else:
>             print "there was an error"
>             return false
>
> it's already have a method named : Attach ...
> 
>   
Indentation is critical.  You have defined functions ( Open_process() 
attach(), run(), etc. ) that have formal parameters named self, but are 
indented outside of the class definition.  Indentation trumps, so these 
are not attributes of the class.  They're functions, not methods.

It looks like you have other indentation problems, but I'll let you run 
with this much.

Incidentally, following naming conventions could also help here.  
debugger is a class, but it's not capitalized.  Open_process() is 
intended to be a method, but it is capitalized.  And your comments refer 
to attach() as Attach...  Another convention you're breaking is using    
"from ctypes import * "   That's a dangerous way to do imports, as it 
mixes those names with the ones in this module.  I prefer a simple 
import, and use the module name as a prefix when you reference those 
symbols.  If there are a few symbols you do want to have directly 
included, then import them one at a time, without the * notation.  (just 
my opinion)

DaveA



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Thu Aug  6 01:19:24 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 02:19:24 -0300
Subject: Two Dimensional Array + ctypes
References: <79d2b3e3-b049-4d70-a56b-6e7f3ea2fa86@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

En Wed, 05 Aug 2009 20:12:09 -0300, Sparky  escribi?:

> Hello! I am trying to call this method:
>
> long _stdcall AIBurst(long *idnum, [...]
> 			 long timeout,
> 			 float (*voltages)[4],
> 			 long *stateIOout,
> 			 long *overVoltage,
> 			 long transferMode);
>
> I am having some problems with that  float (*voltages)[4].

>         pointerArray = (ctypes.c_void_p * 4)
>         voltages = pointerArray(ctypes.cast(ctypes.pointer
> ((ctypes.c_long * 4096)()), ctypes.c_void_p), ctypes.cast
> (ctypes.pointer((ctypes.c_long * 4096)()), ctypes.c_void_p),
> ctypes.cast(ctypes.pointer((ctypes.c_long * 4096)()),
> ctypes.c_void_p), ctypes.cast(ctypes.pointer((ctypes.c_long * 4096)

Why c_long and not c_float?
Anyway, this way looks much more clear to me (and doesn't require a cast):

arr4096_type = ctypes.c_float * 4096
voltages_type = arr4096_type * 4
voltages = voltages_type()

> The program runs but the values that come back in the array are not
> right.

Thay might be due to the long/float confusion.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From davea at ieee.org  Thu Aug  6 01:25:48 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 01:25:48 -0400
Subject: Web page data and urllib2.urlopen
In-Reply-To: <469a6df4-92da-4fd1-bffd-5fefa8cdf3ed@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <469a6df4-92da-4fd1-bffd-5fefa8cdf3ed@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A7A695C.4010403@ieee.org>

Massi wrote:
> Hi everyone, I'm using the urllib2 library to get the html source code
> of web pages. In general it works great, but I'm having to do with a
> financial web site which does not provide the souce code I expect. As
> a matter of fact if you try:
>
> import urllib2
> res = urllib2.urlopen("http://www.marketwatch.com/story/mondays-
> biggest-gaining-and-declining-stocks-2009-07-27")
> page = res.read()
> print page
>
> you will see that the printed code is very different from the one
> given, for example, by mozilla. Since I have really little knowledge
> in html I can't even understand if this is a python or html problem.
> Can anyone give me some help?
> Thanks in advance.
>
>   
I don't think this is a Python issue, but a "raw read" versus an 
interactive interpretation of a page.  The browser does lots more than a 
single roundtrip defined by urlopen/read.

I also would love to see some explanation of what happens here, or a 
pointer to a reference that would help me understand it.

I took the output of the read(), and formatted it, roughly, as html.  I 
expected to find a refresh, which is the simplest way that one page can 
cause a very different one to be loaded.
      

If Mozilla had seen a page with this line in an appropriate place, it'd 
immediately begin loading the other page, at "someotherurl"  But there's 
no such line.

Next, I looked for javascript.  The Mozilla page contains lots of 
javascript, but there's none in the raw page.  So I can't explain 
Mozilla's differences that way.

I did notice the link to /m/Content/mobile2.css, but I don' t know any 
way a CSS file could cause the content to change, just the display.

All I can guess is that it has something to do with "browser type" or 
cookies.  And that would make lots of sense if this was a cgi page.  But 
the URL doesn't look like that, as it doesn't end in pl, py, asp, or any 
of another dozen special suffixes.

Any hints, anybody???

DaveA



From MatzeGuentert at gmx.de  Thu Aug  6 01:26:31 2009
From: MatzeGuentert at gmx.de (Matthias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=FCntert?=)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 07:26:31 +0200
Subject: M2Crypto: How to generate subjectKeyIdentifier /
	authorityKeyIdentifier
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <1249536391.3348.35.camel@celsius>

> M2Crypto has a couple of bugs open related that, with potential
> workarounds that I haven't yet deemed polished enough to checkin, but
> which might help you out:
> 
> https://bugzilla.osafoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7530
> https://bugzilla.osafoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12151

Thanks, that helped me a lot. Generating the 'subjectKeyIdentifier' now
works for me using the following procedure:

----------------------------------------------------------
import hashlib 

def get_public_key_fingerprint(self):
	h = hashlib.new('sha1')
    	h.update(self.keypair.as_der())
    	client_serial = h.hexdigest().upper()
    	client_serial_hex = ''
    	
    	for byte in xrange(20):
    	 client_serial_hex += client_serial[byte*2] + client_serial[byte*2
+1]
    		if byte < 19:
    			client_serial_hex += ':'
    
        return client_serial_hex 

[...]
cert_extension_4 = X509.new_extension("subjectKeyIdentifier",
keys_ca.get_public_key_fingerprint()) 
----------------------------------------------------------

However I don't understand the way the hash gets build. Comparing the
output from a given keypair and certificate build via OpenVPNs easy-rsa
scripts shows different subjectKeyIdentifiers. As stated out by rfc5280
there is no right or wrong way in creating the unique hash, so this
should be fine. 

But setting the 'authorityKeyIdentifier' extension gives me some
headache here. The following code snippet produces a segmentation fault
on my python interpreter (version 2.6)  

----------------------------------------------------------
cert_extension = X509.new_extension("authorityKeyIdentifier",
keys_ca.get_public_key_fingerprint())

cert_extension_stack.push(cert_extension)
----------------------------------------------------------

Same on this:
----------------------------------------------------------
cert_extension = 

X509.new_extension("authorityKeyIdentifier",
"keyid:1C:88:E1:8E:F1:5F:9D:1C:2B:6C:41:D4:3D:BB:79:0D:33:4A:E3:9A,
DirName:/C=US/ST=CA/L=SanFrancisco/O=Fort-Funston/CN=Fort-Funston
CA/emailAddress=me at myhost.mydomain, serial:B1:82:B1:E4:23:78:F1:12")

cert_extension_stack.push(cert_extension)
----------------------------------------------------------

So the question is: Is there another workaround to set this extension?
How can I provide more information to get this fixed? Working with the
latest SVN version is no option for me at the moment. 

Thanks in advance,
Matthias 




From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Thu Aug  6 01:30:58 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 02:30:58 -0300
Subject: os.system in a service
References: 
Message-ID: 

En Wed, 05 Aug 2009 13:07:39 -0300, Lawrence Wong  
 escribi?:

> I wrote a program which runs a .bat file using os.system like:  
> 'os.system(pathToBatFile)' and everything was good.  Then I decided to  
> turn my program into a service as opposed to being run with the command  
> prompt showing.  When my program became a service, I noticed that the  
> os.system command to run my .bat file was no longer working.  By 'not  
> working' I mean no exception is thrown, but it was as if the line with  
> os.system(pathToBatFile) did not exist.  I was wondering why this is and  
> if there is a way to fix this or what an alternative to using os.system  
> to run my .bat file was?

Capture stdout and stderr and you'll probably see the error message:

some_command >logfile.txt 2>&1

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From pfeldman at verizon.net  Thu Aug  6 01:42:26 2009
From: pfeldman at verizon.net (Dr. Phillip M. Feldman)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 22:42:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to comment on a Python PEP?
Message-ID: <24840417.post@talk.nabble.com>


Is there a mechanism for submitting comments on a Python PEP?
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/How-to-comment-on-a-Python-PEP--tp24840417p24840417.html
Sent from the Python - python-list mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From mlm2winnet at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 01:49:42 2009
From: mlm2winnet at gmail.com (Chris Harris)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 22:49:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Hi everyone
Message-ID: <150d41dd-018a-48a0-8dda-43e7832d6434@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

I'm happy to be a part of this group, i'd liek to say hi and invite
everyone to join my group =D Have a great night i look forward to
being an active member of this group

http://groups.google.com/group/mlm-2-win


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Thu Aug  6 01:50:01 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 02:50:01 -0300
Subject: Parsing Binary Structures; Is there a better way / What is your
	way?
References: 
Message-ID: 

En Wed, 05 Aug 2009 11:46:13 -0300, Martin P. Hellwig  
 escribi?:

> On several occasions I have needed (and build) a parser that reads a  
> binary piece of data with custom structure. For example (bogus one):
>
> BE
> +---------+---------+-------------+-------------+------+--------+
> | Version | Command | Instruction | Data Length | Data | Filler |
> +---------+---------+-------------+-------------+------+--------+
> Version: 6 bits
> Command: 4 bits
> Instruction: 5 bits
> Data Length: 5 bits
> Data: 0-31 bits
> Filler: filling 0 bits to make the packet dividable by 8

> - Using a string for binary representation takes at least 8 times more  
> memory for the packet than strictly necessary.

The size difference isn't so big; an integer takes 12 bytes and a string  
takes 24+len bytes. "Data" above would take 56 bytes max when stored as a  
string '0110001...' vs. 12 bytes when using a plain integer (sizes  
computed on Windows 32bits). Plus, doing bitwise operations in Python  
isn't a fast operation as it is in C, by example -- so your current  
implementation might be a quite good one (in pure Python, I mean).

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From davea at ieee.org  Thu Aug  6 02:30:47 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 02:30:47 -0400
Subject: access read / write violation with ctypes
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A7A7897.1030207@ieee.org>

DH wrote:
> 
>
> I'm using popen to capture dcraw stdout and want to pass it to
> magickwand. If I instead write the dcraw output to a file then read it
> with magickwand I get the same error. But if I comment out the dcraw
> protion and read the dcraw output file from the previous attempt,
> MagickWand opens the file fine and I can manipulate it to my hearts
> content. The basics:
>
> 
>   
Just a quick guess, based only on this paragraph.  But I'd guess the 
dcraw output file is buffered, and is not fully written when you're 
trying to read it back.

You could do some checking by comparing sizes, when you get it from the 
pipe, and when you see it finally written in the directory.

DaveA


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Thu Aug  6 02:43:58 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 08:43:58 +0200
Subject: Datetime with float seconds
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <200908060843.58925.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Wednesday 05 August 2009 14:50:04 kpal wrote:
> Hello Everybody,
>
> The standard datetime has 1 microsecond granularity. My application
> needs finer time resolution, preferably float seconds. Is there an
> alternative to the out-of-the-box datetime? Timezone support is not
> essential.

I am curious as to what would require less than microsecond
timing - about the only thing I can think of would be something
involving measuring the speed of light, where nanoseconds
or better would be nice.

- Hendrik



From davea at ieee.org  Thu Aug  6 02:45:01 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 02:45:01 -0400
Subject: Parsing Binary Structures;	Is there a better way / What is
	your way?
In-Reply-To: <7xr5vqw0v9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: 	<7x3a86gmfe.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	
	<7xr5vqw0v9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <4A7A7BED.4030105@ieee.org>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> "Martin P. Hellwig"  writes:
>   
>> Is there an advantage using shifts and masks over my kitchen type solution?
>>     
>
> Weren't you complaining about the 8-to-1 expansion from turning each bit
> to an ascii char?
>
>   
One warning to Martin:

If you want your code portable across systems, watch out for 
big-endian/little-endian  issues, as well as alignment ones.  Shift & 
mask code tends to be highly specific to a particular endian-ness, 
especially if trying to get multiple bits that cross a byte or word 
boundary.

Over the years, I know I've seen at least three endian versions for the 
same 32bit word.  Something like abcd, dcba, and cdab.

One advantage of converting first to bitstrings, is that there's just 
the two places to fix, for portability, the conversion from byte array 
to bitstring, and the conversion back.

DaveA



From deets at nospam.web.de  Thu Aug  6 02:59:13 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 08:59:13 +0200
Subject: os.system in a service
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <7dvda1F2c4s7kU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Gabriel Genellina schrieb:
> En Wed, 05 Aug 2009 13:07:39 -0300, Lawrence Wong 
>  escribi?:
> 
>> I wrote a program which runs a .bat file using os.system like: 
>> 'os.system(pathToBatFile)' and everything was good.  Then I decided to 
>> turn my program into a service as opposed to being run with the 
>> command prompt showing.  When my program became a service, I noticed 
>> that the os.system command to run my .bat file was no longer working.  
>> By 'not working' I mean no exception is thrown, but it was as if the 
>> line with os.system(pathToBatFile) did not exist.  I was wondering why 
>> this is and if there is a way to fix this or what an alternative to 
>> using os.system to run my .bat file was?
> 
> Capture stdout and stderr and you'll probably see the error message:
> 
> some_command >logfile.txt 2>&1

Which isn't possible as a service.

The OP might consider using suprocess istead of os.system, and establish 
pipes to read the output of the command into a file he can analyze.

Diez


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Thu Aug  6 03:39:33 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 09:39:33 +0200
Subject: Parsing Binary Structures;
	Is there a better way / What is your way?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <200908060939.33365.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Wednesday 05 August 2009 16:46:13 Martin P. Hellwig wrote:
> Hi List,
>
> On several occasions I have needed (and build) a parser that reads a
> binary piece of data with custom structure. For example (bogus one):
>
> BE
> +---------+---------+-------------+-------------+------+--------+
>
> | Version | Command | Instruction | Data Length | Data | Filler |
>
> +---------+---------+-------------+-------------+------+--------+
> Version: 6 bits
> Command: 4 bits
> Instruction: 5 bits
> Data Length: 5 bits
> Data: 0-31 bits
> Filler: filling 0 bits to make the packet dividable by 8
>
> what I usually do is read the packet in binary mode, convert the output
> to a concatenated 'binary string'(i.e. '0101011000110') and then use
> slice indeces to get the right data portions.
> Depending on what I need to do with these portions I convert them to
> whatever is handy (usually an integer).

This bit banging stuff is a PITA, no matter what you do.
Python does not have bit fields like C.
And C bit fields are implementation dependent.
Write an extension?

Some time ago I asked a similar question, and
Castironpi came up with what was essentially an
indexed integer, with named bits.

It stores the bits natively, but I suspect that the
price paid is access time.

I enclose a module that you can adapt.
It talks about bytes but they are integers really.
It is different from what you are doing, as it
was aimed at reading and writing bits in 
a hardware context.

If you get your head around the concept,
then it may give you some ideas.  It should
be possible to extend the concept to
pass name,length tuples at construction time
instead of just a name with an implied length 
of one bit, and it may make sense to change
the underlying type from an integer to an 
array of one byte integers.

It is nice to be able to say:
val = bitname() 
to read, and 
bitname(1)
or
bitname(0)
to write.

I can also write:
outputbits[3] = 1
or
val = inputbits[5]

If you can successfully generalise it
to field names It should be very useful.

I cannot think of a way though, to not
have the "in" and "out" split, but you can
program your way around that - you do not
have to update "in place".

- Hendrik

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From kpalamartchouk at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 03:46:58 2009
From: kpalamartchouk at gmail.com (kpal)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 00:46:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Datetime with float seconds
References: 
	
Message-ID: <0819ae46-767f-4256-81d9-f265b7552cd8@h31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 6, 7:43?am, Hendrik van Rooyen  wrote:

> I am curious as to what would require less than microsecond
> timing - about the only thing I can think of would be something
> involving measuring the speed of light, where nanoseconds
> or better would be nice.

You are right :-) I am trying to write a scientific software that does
some satellite geodesy computations (involving the speed of light),
and I would prefer to keep all the times float, while retaining the
time and time interval arithmetics and format transformation
capabilities of datetime. The system time granularity, that is of
cause limited, is not a problem at all, as the data are to be
initialized by constructing instances from external data.

Thanks


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Thu Aug  6 03:58:30 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 09:58:30 +0200
Subject: Parsing Binary Structures;
	Is there a better way / What is your way?
In-Reply-To: <7x3a86gmfe.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: 
	<7x3a86gmfe.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <200908060958.30882.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Wednesday 05 August 2009 20:12:05 Paul Rubin wrote:
> "Martin P. Hellwig"  writes:
> > what I usually do is read the packet in binary mode, convert the
> > output to a concatenated 'binary string'(i.e. '0101011000110') and
>
> Something wrong with reading the data words as an integer and using
> old fashioned shifts and masks to get at the bit fields?

There is nothing wrong with that, and in the final analysis, it is what
is used - however, I can sympathize with the OP, as it is much nicer
to just call a named thing than to juggle a bunch of hard coded
shifts and masks.

I think the real point here is sort of meta programming - what
is needed is a way to describe and name the elements of the
structure so that useful python objects are created.

The code I posted for bits does that, and I use it all the
time - it is almost as good as being back in 8031 assembler
with direct named bit access.

- Hendrik


From contact at xavierho.com  Thu Aug  6 04:05:52 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 18:05:52 +1000
Subject: merge two png pic
In-Reply-To: <69579cfc-9151-43df-a5ef-a6b05f1bd718@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	
	<006617e3-6630-4f04-bff1-99c58dbb6cb5@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<4a77e249$0$2449$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<72d7aad1-1fb7-4b32-a87f-636505b0faa2@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
	<4a793852$0$19598$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<69579cfc-9151-43df-a5ef-a6b05f1bd718@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908060105p1604f02u57128d23172b3d67@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 12:17 PM, cocobear  wrote:

>
> I want to view image use Windows Pic View.
>
> If you run out of memory trying to combining those images into a 30k by 40k
pixels image, the Windows Pic View isn't going to be able to display it
either.

Regards,

Ching-Yun "Xavier" Ho, Technical Artist

Contact Information
Mobile: (+61) 04 3335 4748
Skype ID: SpaXe85
Email: contact at xavierho.com
Website: http://xavierho.com/
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From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Thu Aug  6 04:06:04 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 10:06:04 +0200
Subject: Parsing Binary Structures;
	Is there a better way / What is your way?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<7xr5vqw0v9.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
Message-ID: <200908061006.04437.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Wednesday 05 August 2009 21:41:26 Martin P. Hellwig wrote:

> Yes you are (of course) right, my 'dream' solution would be something
> that accepts slice indeces on bit level. Your reasoning did reveal some
> flaws in my approach though ;-)

This is the first time I have been compared to the sandman...

:-)

- Hendrik



From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Aug  6 04:24:08 2009
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?UTF-8?B?Ik1hcnRpbiB2LiBMw7Z3aXMi?=)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 10:24:08 +0200
Subject: String to valid Python identifier
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4a7a9328$0$2355$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

> Is there any easy function in the stdlib to convert any random string in 
> a valid Python identifier .. possibly by replacing non-valid characters 
> with _ ?

I think this is fairly underspecified as a problem statement. A solution
that would meet your specification would be

def mkident(s):
    return "foo"

It returns a valid Python identifier for any random string.

If you now complain that this gives too many collisions, I propose

def mkident(s):
    return "foo%d" % (hash(s) & 0x7fffffff)

Regards,
Martin


From contact at xavierho.com  Thu Aug  6 04:26:22 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 18:26:22 +1000
Subject: Subclassing Python's dict
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<2d56febf0908050732i7792bf7ft32accf1bc1157421@mail.gmail.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908060126i323d499fla4b7a22c934c5e7@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 1:19 PM, alex23  wrote:

> Xavier Ho wrote:
> > You should subclass collections.UserDict, and not the default dict class.
> > Refer to the collections module.
>
> Xavier, why do you think that is the correct approach?


I'll be honest first and say that I do not completely understand how dict is
implemented in the underlying C structure. But as Bruno had already
mentioned, dict has a slightly different behaviour then we'd expect. For
example, the __getitem__() function isn't actually used by the interpreter
(which, you know, *can* be a problem.)

http://www.python.org/download/releases/2.2.3/descrintro/#subclassing
(I don't know if 2.6.2 changed anything since 2.2.3, but there are some
references you can look at, and sample code.)

To answer your question, it's really not "the correct approach", but I think
(meaning: untested) UserDict doesn't have the same implementation, which
might free up some restrictions Sergey encountered.

The docs say
> "The need for this class has been largely supplanted by the ability to
> subclass directly from dict (a feature that became available starting
> with Python version 2.2)."


I didn't realise they took UserDict out in later versions (2.6, for
example), and put it back in Python 3.0. Does anyone know why?

So, I do not actually know.

> If you mean that Sergey should subclass _in this instance_ could you
> please explain why? (Sorry if you already have, I never saw your
> original post...)
>

It was really more or less an educated guess. He didn't tell us what he is
trying to achieve, so _in this instance_ I can't give more advice than
saying "well, if this doesn't work, here are you other options that I know
of/just found. Try these and let us know if you got it to work." *winks*

-

Sometimes I do answer a little too quickly, I apologise for that.

- Xav
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From iainking at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 04:28:29 2009
From: iainking at gmail.com (Iain King)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 01:28:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: remove last 76 letters from string
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

>      print >>nucleotides, seq[-76]

> ? ? ?last_part = line.rstrip()[-76 : ]

You all mean:   seq[:-76]   , right? (assuming you've already stripped
any junk off the end of the string)

Iain


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Thu Aug  6 04:35:57 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 05:35:57 -0300
Subject: os.system in a service
References: 
	
	<7dvda1F2c4s7kU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: 

En Thu, 06 Aug 2009 03:59:13 -0300, Diez B. Roggisch   
escribi?:
> Gabriel Genellina schrieb:
>> En Wed, 05 Aug 2009 13:07:39 -0300, Lawrence Wong  
>>  escribi?:

>>> I wrote a program which runs a .bat file using os.system like:  
>>> 'os.system(pathToBatFile)' and everything was good.  Then I decided to  
>>> turn my program into a service as opposed to being run with the  
>>> command prompt showing.  When my program became a service, I noticed  
>>> that the os.system command to run my .bat file was no longer working.  
>>> [...]

>>  Capture stdout and stderr and you'll probably see the error message:
>>  some_command >logfile.txt 2>&1
>
> Which isn't possible as a service.

Why you say so? One should avoid using mapped drive letters and network  
shares -- that probably aren't defined for the account under which the  
service runs. And always use absolute paths. And ensure the account has  
write permissions for the output file... But other than that, os.system  
should work fine. Do I miss something?

> The OP might consider using suprocess istead of os.system, and establish  
> pipes to read the output of the command into a file he can analyze.

That's a good idea, although overkill for simple cases I'd say.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Aug  6 04:42:33 2009
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 10:42:33 +0200
Subject: How to comment on a Python PEP?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4a7a9779$0$2384$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

> Is there a mechanism for submitting comments on a Python PEP?

You post to python-dev or comp.lang.python, and you CC the author.

Regards,
Martin


From dr.scottgriffiths at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 04:44:19 2009
From: dr.scottgriffiths at gmail.com (sgriffiths)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 01:44:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Parsing Binary Structures; Is there a better way / What is your 
	way?
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 5, 3:46?pm, "Martin P. Hellwig" 
wrote:
> Hi List,
>
> On several occasions I have needed (and build) a parser that reads a
> binary piece of data with custom structure. For example (bogus one):
>
> BE
> +---------+---------+-------------+-------------+------+--------+
> | Version | Command | Instruction | Data Length | Data | Filler |
> +---------+---------+-------------+-------------+------+--------+
> Version: 6 bits
> Command: 4 bits
> Instruction: 5 bits
> Data Length: 5 bits
> Data: 0-31 bits
> Filler: filling 0 bits to make the packet dividable by 8
>
> what I usually do is read the packet in binary mode, convert the output
> to a concatenated 'binary string'(i.e. '0101011000110') and then use
> slice indeces to get the right data portions.
> Depending on what I need to do with these portions I convert them to
> whatever is handy (usually an integer).
>
> This works out fine for me. Most of the time I also put the ASCII art
> diagram of this 'protocol' as a comment in the code, making it more
> readable/understandable.
>
> Though there are a couple of things that bothers me with my approach:
> - This seems such a general problem that I think that there must be
> already a general pythonic solution.
> - Using a string for binary representation takes at least 8 times more
> memory for the packet than strictly necessary.
> - Seems to need a lot of prep work before doing the actual parsing.
>
> Any suggestion is greatly appreciated.
>
> --
> MPHhttp://blog.dcuktec.com
> 'If consumed, best digested with added seasoning to own preference.'

Take a look at the bitstring module (in pypi or google code). It's
designed to help make this sort of thing easy and it's more fully
featured than BitVector or BitSet. Internally the data is stored as a
byte array, so memory isn't wasted. It will also do all the dirty work
of bit masking and shifting so that you can concentrate on the real
problems. For example:

>>> s = BitString('0x1232432312')  # just to give us some data to play with
>>> ver, comm, instr, bitlen = s.read('uint6, bin4, bin5, uint5')
>>> data = s.readbits(bitlen)

Different interpretations of the binary data are given using Python
properties (e.g. s.hex, s.oct, s.uint, etc.) and it supports bit-wise
slicing, modification, finding, replacing and more. It is also still
in active development (full disclosure: I'm the author :-)).



From contact at xavierho.com  Thu Aug  6 04:44:45 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 18:44:45 +1000
Subject: remove last 76 letters from string
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908060144g4201d152mbf981c9273d5915f@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 6:28 PM, Iain King  wrote:

> >      print >>nucleotides, seq[-76]
>
> >      last_part = line.rstrip()[-76 : ]
>
> You all mean:   seq[:-76]   , right? (assuming you've already stripped
> any junk off the end of the string)
>

I think so, probably both of them typo'd. (What are the probabilities of
that?)

It looks to me like you have two lines per DNA sequence. What you could do
instead, is to alternate the line reading with a with statement, as
suggested by Jan. Although I don't know why he's nesting two of them.
(explanation would be neat.)

Here's my version of approach, given the sample data the OP posted:

with open('NodeList.txt', 'r') as file:
    for line in file.readlines():
        line = line.rstrip()
        if line[0] == '>':
            # Do for New DNA Sequence
            # ...
        else:
            line = line[:-76]
            # ...

Should do what you need.

Best regards,

Ching-Yun "Xavier" Ho, Technical Artist

Contact Information
Mobile: (+61) 04 3335 4748
Skype ID: SpaXe85
Email: contact at xavierho.com
Website: http://xavierho.com/
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From sanu1267 at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 05:25:58 2009
From: sanu1267 at gmail.com (sanju ps)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 14:55:58 +0530
Subject: handling kill signal
Message-ID: <2b76be80908060225n674cbea5x6511d768c2828be6@mail.gmail.com>

I want to handle a kill signal..In my program i wrote like this

def handler(signum, frame):
    print "Signal",signum
    delete_temp_file()
    exit(1)
signal.signal(signal.SIGTERM, handler)

And when i tried pkill processid .program is exited but not deleting the
temp file
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From thangappan143 at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 06:30:15 2009
From: thangappan143 at gmail.com (Thangappan.M)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 16:00:15 +0530
Subject: Problem in installing PyGreSQL
In-Reply-To: 
References: <7aa29e790908032045p3b52a633m8d0e366a0f648b@mail.gmail.com>
	<7f0b4d2b1d5bd3f3057ead3b029059b9@preisshare.net>
	<20090804084856.b825967a.darcy@druid.net>
	
	<20090804095547.a5274e22.darcy@druid.net> 
Message-ID: <7aa29e790908060330x67d900a9rfb4677eaf0eddeb@mail.gmail.com>

I have downloaded the  psycopg2 tar file from the following link.
http://initd.org/tracker/psycopg

I have done the following things.
         * Extracting the files from the tar file
         * tried to execute python ./setup.py build

It gives the following error.

#python ./setup.py build

running build
running build_py
running build_ext
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./setup.py", line 410, in ?
    ext_modules=ext)
  File "distutils/core.py", line 149, in setup
  File "distutils/dist.py", line 946, in run_commands
  File "distutils/dist.py", line 966, in run_command
  File "distutils/command/build.py", line 112, in run
  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/cmd.py", line 333, in run_command
    del help[cmd]
  File "distutils/dist.py", line 965, in run_command
  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/cmd.py", line 117, in ensure_finalized
    pass
  File "./setup.py", line 219, in finalize_options
    except (Warning, w):
NameError: global name 'w' is not defined

What would be the solution?
Otherwise can you tell how to install DB-API in debian machine.

On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

> On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 09:55:47 -0400, "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" 
> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>
> >
> > By the way, you don't have to be super user to install PyGreSQL.  You
> > just need SU if you want to install it system wide.  PyGreSQL doesn't
> > require any special privileges to run.
> >
>         Potentially silly question:
>
>        While the DB-API module may be installable in a user mode... Do we
> know if the original querant even has PostgreSQL running and accessible?
>
> The statement
>
> OP> I want to access the database related stuffs in python.So I found
> the
> OP> PyGreSQL module in net.
>
> doesn't leave me with any confidence that they realize this is just an
> access module for one specific server -- and that they still need a
> server to which they can connect.
>
>        If they don't have a PostgreSQL server, it may be better just to
> direct them to SQLite3...
> --
>        Wulfraed        Dennis Lee Bieber               KD6MOG
>        wlfraed at ix.netcom.com           wulfraed at bestiaria.com
>                HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/
>        (Bestiaria Support Staff:               web-asst at bestiaria.com)
>                HTTP://www.bestiaria.com/
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
Regards,
Thangappan.M
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From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Aug  6 06:34:24 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 11:34:24 +0100
Subject: remove last 76 letters from string
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	
	
Message-ID: <4A7AB1B0.7090606@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Iain King wrote:
>>      print >>nucleotides, seq[-76]
> 
>>      last_part = line.rstrip()[-76 : ]
> 
> You all mean:   seq[:-76]   , right? (assuming you've already stripped
> any junk off the end of the string)
> 
The OP said "cut out the last 76 letters (nucleotides) from each
individual sequence and send them to a new txt file with a similar 
format.", ie extract the last 76 letters (in the same format) to a file.


From deets at nospam.web.de  Thu Aug  6 06:38:39 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 12:38:39 +0200
Subject: Cython + setuptools not working with .pyx,only with .c-files
Message-ID: <7dvq5fF2e21b7U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Hi,


I'm trying to build a Cython-extension as Egg.

However, this doesn't work - I can either use distutils to build the
extension, creating a myextension.c-file on the way.

If that's there, I can use setuptools to build the egg.

But when I remove the .c-file, the .pyx-file isn't used to re-generate it.

This is my setup.py:

----
import os
import glob
from setuptools import setup, Extension
#from distutils.core import setup
#from distutils.extension import Extension

from Cython.Distutils import build_ext


objs = [...] # a static lib I want to wrap

setup(
    name='MyExtension',
    version="0.1",
    description='',
    author='Diez B. Roggisch',
    author_email='...',
    cmdclass = {'build_ext': build_ext},
    ext_modules = [Extension("myextension", ["myextension.pyx"],
                             libraries=["crypto"],
                             extra_objects = objs)],

-----


I can of course check in the myextension.c-file , and then when actually
working on the extension create it new by uncommenting the above lines.

But I guess that's not really the way things should work...

Diez


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 06:38:53 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 03:38:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Subclassing Python's dict
References:  
	<4a7999b1$0$306$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <2c161a54-fade-4753-aa3f-3fee67632056@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 5, 7:39?am, Bruno Desthuilliers  wrote:
> Sergey Simonenko a ?crit :
>
> > Hi,
>
> > I subclass builtin 'dict' in my application and experience some problems
> > with it.
>
> > The whole issue is that I should redefine 'setdefault' and 'update'
> > methods after redefining '__setitem__' or/and '__delitem__',
> > otherwise 'update' and 'setdefault' ignore redefined '__setitem__' and
> > use builtin dict's one so dict looks kinda like a black box.
>
> > Another guy have reported me that he experiences similar problems with
> > subclassing builtin 'list'.
>
> I indeed notice this behaviour here (Python 2.6.2). I'm afraid it has to
> do with some optimization tricks (dict being the very fundamental data
> structure in Python, it has to be higly optimized).

You can ultimately blame it on optimization in this case, but in
general there isn't any way (in Python) to require that __setitem__ be
the common point for all modifications.

In fact this is an example of a general condition of OOP.  A "high-
level" method may or may not call a "low-level" method to do its dirty
work, and there is no way to know this simply from the class's
interface.  You need to have knowledge of the implementation to know
whether you need to override "high-level" or "low-level" methods.  In
general you can't safely subclass based on the interface alone; you
have to know what you're subclassing.

(As an aside: this intuitively is the reason why I never cared much
for some of the arguments against inheritance.  Many arguments against
inheritance go like this: "Inheritance is bad because X can happen if
you're not careful".  Doesn't mean anything to me because you have be
careful anyway.)

Because of the care required when subclassing, I tend to use
inheritance only when the intended base class is A. also under my
control, or B. specifically designed to be subclassed.  Examples of B
in the standard Python library are Queue and Thread.  list and dict
are allowed to be subclassed but aren't specifically designed for it,
so I tend not to subclass those.  (It is occasionally indispensible,
though.)


Carl Banks


From cournape at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 06:57:11 2009
From: cournape at gmail.com (David Cournapeau)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 19:57:11 +0900
Subject: Using Python to automate builds
In-Reply-To: 
References: <84d9ae10-3aee-40a8-97ac-05799da0de64@f18g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<200908050956.33995.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
	<5b8d13220908050508n32f05bep4c275cec14914588@mail.gmail.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <5b8d13220908060357rb2fa7bp519809ce73455c28@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 12:39 AM, Kosta wrote:

>
> Setenv.bat sets up the path and other environment variables build.exe
> needs to compile and link (and even binplace) its utilities. ?So
> building itself is not the issue. ?The problem is that if I call
> setenv.bat from Python and then build.exe, but the modifications to
> the path (and other environment settings) are not seen by Python, so
> the attempt to build without a specified path fails.

It sounds like you do not propagate the environment when calling
setenv.bat from python. There is an option to do so in
subprocess.Popen init method, or you can define your own environment
if you do not want to propagate the whole environment (but this is
often difficult to avoid for build environment in my experience,
expecially if you don't have access to the sources of the whole system
to check which variables are necessary).

David


From lawrencew00 at hotmail.com  Thu Aug  6 06:58:03 2009
From: lawrencew00 at hotmail.com (Lawrence Wong)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 10:58:03 +0000
Subject: os.system in a service
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	<7dvda1F2c4s7kU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> 
	
Message-ID: 


I actually found the solution.  I was trying to copy a file from another computer to the current one.  My 'access was denied'.  So I had to go to my service at Admin Tools --> Services and 'Log on as' the Administrator.  Was ok after that.  Thanks for your responses everyone.  

> To: python-list at python.org
> From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar
> Subject: Re: os.system in a service
> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 05:35:57 -0300
> 
> En Thu, 06 Aug 2009 03:59:13 -0300, Diez B. Roggisch   
> escribi?:
> > Gabriel Genellina schrieb:
> >> En Wed, 05 Aug 2009 13:07:39 -0300, Lawrence Wong  
> >>  escribi?:
> 
> >>> I wrote a program which runs a .bat file using os.system like:  
> >>> 'os.system(pathToBatFile)' and everything was good.  Then I decided to  
> >>> turn my program into a service as opposed to being run with the  
> >>> command prompt showing.  When my program became a service, I noticed  
> >>> that the os.system command to run my .bat file was no longer working.  
> >>> [...]
> 
> >>  Capture stdout and stderr and you'll probably see the error message:
> >>  some_command >logfile.txt 2>&1
> >
> > Which isn't possible as a service.
> 
> Why you say so? One should avoid using mapped drive letters and network  
> shares -- that probably aren't defined for the account under which the  
> service runs. And always use absolute paths. And ensure the account has  
> write permissions for the output file... But other than that, os.system  
> should work fine. Do I miss something?
> 
> > The OP might consider using suprocess istead of os.system, and establish  
> > pipes to read the output of the command into a file he can analyze.
> 
> That's a good idea, although overkill for simple cases I'd say.
> 
> -- 
> Gabriel Genellina
> 
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

_________________________________________________________________
More storage. Better anti-spam and antivirus protection. Hotmail makes it simple.
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9671357
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From cournape at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 07:00:09 2009
From: cournape at gmail.com (David Cournapeau)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 20:00:09 +0900
Subject: Cython + setuptools not working with .pyx,only with .c-files
In-Reply-To: <7dvq5fF2e21b7U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: <7dvq5fF2e21b7U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <5b8d13220908060400m4d096726i6d929fb0e32a0327@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 7:38 PM, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
> I'm trying to build a Cython-extension as Egg.
>
> However, this doesn't work - I can either use distutils to build the
> extension, creating a myextension.c-file on the way.
>
> If that's there, I can use setuptools to build the egg.
>
> But when I remove the .c-file, the .pyx-file isn't used to re-generate it.
>
> This is my setup.py:
>
> ----
> import os
> import glob
> from setuptools import setup, Extension
> #from distutils.core import setup
> #from distutils.extension import Extension
>
> from Cython.Distutils import build_ext

What happens if you import setuptools *after* Cython.distutils ? My
guess - I could be wrong - is that both Cython.distutils and
setuptools monkey-patch distutils, and that setuptools does not "see"
Cython.Distutils. It could also be an incompatibility between
Cython.Distutils and setuptools (the design of distutils forces you to
take into account the details of things modified by every distutils
extension).

cheers,

David


From doron.tal.list at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 08:00:45 2009
From: doron.tal.list at gmail.com (Doron Tal)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 15:00:45 +0300
Subject: inspect.stack() performance
Message-ID: <2a8674c60908060500k1c77b556la70d06d5feaaef0e@mail.gmail.com>

I use inspect.stack() to extract some info, such as file name, function name
and line number, for the sake of logging (home brew logger).
I tested to see how much time it takes to execute the command:

Python 2.4.3 (#1, Jan 21 2009, 01:11:33)
[GCC 4.1.2 20071124 (Red Hat 4.1.2-42)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import timeit
>>> t = timeit.Timer('inspect.stack()', 'import inspect')
>>> t.repeat(3,1000)
[0.28500604629516602, 0.28315305709838867, 0.29169297218322754]
>>>

About 280uSec per call.

If I log 1000 times per seconds than I get to spend 28% of the process time
on inspect.stack()
Is there a better/quicker way of retrieving the same info?

Thanks,
--doron
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From Michalek.Jan at uhul.cz  Thu Aug  6 08:37:55 2009
From: Michalek.Jan at uhul.cz (=?iso-8859-2?Q?MICH=C1LEK_Jan_Mgr=2E?=)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 14:37:55 +0200
Subject: one method of COM object needs a variant type variable
Message-ID: <913F77222E913C49A057FDD7BBDEAAA30192B846@br-dc.uhul.wan>

How i can use this type in win32.com? One method of com object (geomedia storage service) needs this variable for storage geometry of geometry object (this variable will be writen into blob in DB). Is possible make this variable in py??
Thanks Jelen/Stack
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From marcusw at cox.net  Thu Aug  6 09:24:33 2009
From: marcusw at cox.net (Marcus Wanner)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 09:24:33 -0400
Subject: Overlap in python
In-Reply-To: <4c9f81a5-51b9-4487-9df9-d458b327d286@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
References: 	<4A78B19D.4020306@mrabarnett.plus.com>	
	<4c9f81a5-51b9-4487-9df9-d458b327d286@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On 8/5/2009 10:56 AM, nn wrote:
> On Aug 5, 7:13 am, Marcus Wanner  wrote:
>> On 8/4/2009 6:09 PM, MRAB wrote:
>>
>>>  >>> parts = [(5, 9, "a"), (7, 10, "b"), (3, 6, "c"), (15, 20, "d"),
>>> (18, 23, "e")]
>>>  >>> parts.sort()
>>>  >>> parts
>>> [(3, 6, 'c'), (5, 9, 'a'), (7, 10, 'b'), (15, 20, 'd'), (18, 23, 'e')]
>>>  >>> # Merge overlapping intervals.
>>>  >>> pos = 1
>>>  >>> while pos < len(parts):
>>>         # Merge the pair in parts[pos - 1 : pos + 1] if they overlap.
>>>         p, q = parts[pos - 1 : pos + 1]
>>>         if p[1] >= q[0]:
>>>                 parts[pos - 1 : pos + 1] = [(p[0], max(p[1], q[1]), p[2]
>>> + "." + q[2])]
>>>         else:
>>>                 # They don't overlap, so try the next pair.
>>>                 pos += 1
>>>  >>> parts
>>> [(3, 10, 'c.a.b'), (15, 23, 'd.e')]
>> That's the best solution I've seen so far. It even has input/output
>> formatted as close as is reasonably possible to the format specified.
>>
>> As we would say in googlecode, +1.
>>
>> Marcus
> 
> How does it compare to this one?
> 
> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_frm/thread/1a1d2ed9d05d11d0/56684b795fc527cc#56684b795fc527cc
That is a different problem, and the solution is more complex.
I am not going to try to judge which is better.

Marcus

-- 
print ''.join([chr(((ord(z)+(ord("I'M/THE"[3])+sum(
     [ord(x)for x in 'CRYPTOR'])))%(4*ord('8')+ord(
     ' ')))) for z in ''.join(([(('\xca\x10\x03\t'+
     '\x01\xff\xe6\xbe\x0c\r\x06\x12\x17\xee\xbe'+
     '\x10\x03\x06\x12\r\x0c\xdf\xbe\x12\x11\x13'+
     '\xe8')[13*2-y]) for y in range(int(6.5*4)+1)]
     ))])



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Aug  6 09:55:04 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 22:55:04 +0900
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
References: 			<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>		<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>	
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro	ups.com>
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
Message-ID: 

RayS wrote:
> At 08:35 PM 8/5/2009 -0700, r wrote:
>> """... Any real sense of community is undermined -- or
>> even destroyed -- to be replaced by virtual equivalents that strive,
>> unsuccessfully, to synthesize a sense of community."""
> 
> I've brought up the idea of the quasi-community doc that PHP uses to 
> good effect.

And what have you done about setting up such a project?

> http://www.php.net/manual/en/language.types.array.php is a prime example 
> where 2/3 of the "doc" is user-contributed comments and code.

I consider consider this to an unreadable mishmash. If you and others 
want something like that, do it.  And quite bitching about the work of 
those of us who have done something compact and readable. We are all 
volunteers here.

tjr



From iainking at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 09:58:13 2009
From: iainking at gmail.com (Iain King)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 06:58:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: remove last 76 letters from string
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: <938fdab5-65c5-47a0-8386-95edc470da9e@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 6, 11:34?am, MRAB  wrote:
> Iain King wrote:
> >> ? ? ?print >>nucleotides, seq[-76]
>
> >> ? ? ?last_part = line.rstrip()[-76 : ]
>
> > You all mean: ? seq[:-76] ? , right? (assuming you've already stripped
> > any junk off the end of the string)
>
> The OP said "cut out the last 76 letters (nucleotides) from each
> individual sequence and send them to a new txt file with a similar
> format.", ie extract the last 76 letters (in the same format) to a file.

So he did.  Excuse me while I go eat my other foot.


From tack at urandom.ca  Thu Aug  6 10:15:41 2009
From: tack at urandom.ca (Jason Tackaberry)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 10:15:41 -0400
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<1249487636.7120.798.camel@arrakis>
	
Message-ID: <1249568141.10840.37.camel@arrakis>

On Thu, 2009-08-06 at 01:31 +0000, John Machin wrote:
> Faster by an enormous margin; attributing this to the cost of attribute lookup
> seems implausible.

Ok, fair point.  I don't think the time difference fully registered when
I composed that message.

Testing a global access (LOAD_GLOBAL) versus an attribute access on a
global object (LOAD_GLOBAL + LOAD_ATTR) shows that the latter is about
40% slower than the former.  So that certainly doesn't account for the
difference.


> Suggested further avenues of investigation:
> 
> (1) Try the timing again with "cp1252" and "utf8" and "utf_8"
> 
> (2) grep "utf-8" /Objects/unicodeobject.c

Very pedagogical of you. :)  Indeed, it looks like bigger player in the
performance difference is the fact that the code path for unicode(s,
enc) short-circuits the codec registry for common encodings (which
includes 'utf-8' specifically), whereas s.decode('utf-8') necessarily
consults the codec registry.

Cheers,
Jason.



From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Thu Aug  6 10:32:34 2009
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 16:32:34 +0200
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
References: 
Message-ID: 

* Michael Str?der (Wed, 05 Aug 2009 16:43:09 +0200)
> These both expressions are equivalent but which is faster or should be
> used for any reason?
> 
> u = unicode(s,'utf-8')
> 
> u = s.decode('utf-8') # looks nicer

"decode" was added in Python 2.2 for the sake of symmetry to encode(). 
It's essentially the same as unicode() and I wouldn't be surprised if it 
is exactly the same. I don't think any measurable speed increase will be 
noticeable between those two.

Thorsten


From sbassi at clubdelarazon.org  Thu Aug  6 10:35:36 2009
From: sbassi at clubdelarazon.org (Sebastian Bassi)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 11:35:36 -0300
Subject: ANN: Python for Bioinformatics book
Message-ID: <9e2f512b0908060735w7d270238y773275d45c46a954@mail.gmail.com>

"Python for Bioinformatics"
ISBN 1584889292
Amazon: http://www.tinyurl.com/biopython
Publisher: http://www.crcpress.com/product/isbn/9781584889298

This book introduces programming concepts to life science researchers,
bioinformaticians, support staff, students, and everyone who is
interested in applying programming to solve biologically-related
problems. Python is the chosen programming language for this task
because it is both powerful and easy-to-use.

It begins with the basic aspects of the language (like data types and
control structures) up to essential skills on today's bioinformatics
tasks like building web applications, using relational database
management systems, XML and version control. There is a chapter
devoted to Biopython (www.biopython.org) since it can be used for most
of the tasks related to bioinformatics data processing.

There is a section with applications with source code, featuring
sequence manipulation, filtering vector contamination, calculating DNA
melting temperature, parsing a genbank file, inferring splicing sites,
and more.

There are questions at the end of every chapter and odd numbered
questiona are answered in an appendix making this text suitable for
classroom use.

This book can be used also as a reference material as it includes
Richard Gruet's Python Quick Reference, and the Python Style Guide.

DVD: The included DVD features a virtual machine with a special
edition of DNALinux, with all the programs and complementary files
required to run the scripts commented in the book. All scripts can be
tweaked to fit a particular configuration. By using a pre-configured
virtual machine the reader has access to the same development
environment than the author, so he can focus on learning Python. All
code is also available at the http://py3.us/## where ## is the code
number, for example: http://py3.us/57

I've been working on this book for more than two years testing the
examples under different setups and working to make the code
compatible for most versions of Python, Biopython and operating
systems. Where there is code that only works with a particular
dependency, this is clearly noted.

Finally, I want to highlight that non-bioinformaticians out there can
use this book as an introduction to bioinformatics by starting with
the included "Diving into the Gene Pool with BioPython" (by Zachary
Voase and published originally in Python Magazine).


-- 
Sebasti?n Bassi. Diplomado en Ciencia y Tecnolog?a.

Non standard disclaimer: READ CAREFULLY. By reading this email,
you agree, on behalf of your employer, to release me from all
obligations and waivers arising from any and all NON-NEGOTIATED
agreements, licenses, terms-of-service, shrinkwrap, clickwrap,
browsewrap, confidentiality, non-disclosure, non-compete and
acceptable use policies ("BOGUS AGREEMENTS") that I have
entered into with your employer, its partners, licensors, agents and
assigns, in perpetuity, without prejudice to my ongoing rights and
privileges. You further represent that you have the authority to release
me from any BOGUS AGREEMENTS on behalf of your employer.


From kee at kagi.com  Thu Aug  6 10:39:10 2009
From: kee at kagi.com (Kee Nethery)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 07:39:10 -0700
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 			<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>		<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>	
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro	ups.com>
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	
Message-ID: <701EC8AD-A151-46F9-A393-31B3960CE2FC@kagi.com>


On Aug 6, 2009, at 6:55 AM, Terry Reedy wrote:

> RayS wrote:
>> At 08:35 PM 8/5/2009 -0700, r wrote:
>>> """... Any real sense of community is undermined -- or
>>> even destroyed -- to be replaced by virtual equivalents that strive,
>>> unsuccessfully, to synthesize a sense of community."""
>> I've brought up the idea of the quasi-community doc that PHP uses  
>> to good effect.
>
> And what have you done about setting up such a project?
>
>> http://www.php.net/manual/en/language.types.array.php is a prime  
>> example where 2/3 of the "doc" is user-contributed comments and code.
>
> I consider consider this to an unreadable mishmash. If you and  
> others want something like that, do it.  And quite bitching about  
> the work of those of us who have done something compact and  
> readable. We are all volunteers here.

As I struggle through trying to figure out how to make python do  
simple stuff for me, I frequently generate samples. If some volunteer  
here would point me towards the documentation that would tell me how I  
can alter the existing Python docs to include sample code, I'd be more  
than happy to do so.

I would like to "do it". Please point me to the docs that tell me how  
to "do it" so that we people with newbie questions and a need for  
examples can get out of your way and "do it" ourselves.

Thanks,
Kee Nethery





From jakecjacobson at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 10:50:07 2009
From: jakecjacobson at gmail.com (jakecjacobson)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 07:50:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Help making this script better
Message-ID: <2f8e34ec-01aa-4ec4-9636-a8ec1f87c68c@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

After much Google searching and trial & error, I was able to write a
Python script that posts XML files to a REST API using HTTPS and
passing PEM cert & key file.  It seems to be working but would like
some pointers on how to handle errors.  I am using Python 2.4, I don't
have the capability to upgrade even though I would like to.  I am very
new to Python so help will be greatly appreciated and I hope others
can use this script.

#!/usr/bin/python
#################################################################
# catalog_feeder.py
#################################################################
# This sciript will process a directory of XML files and push them to
the Enterprise Catalog.
#  You configure this script by using a configuration file that
describes the required variables.
#  The path to this file is either passed into the script as a command
line argument or hard coded
#  in the script.  The script will terminate with an error if it can't
process the XML file.
#################################################################

# IMPORT STATEMENTS
import httplib
import mimetypes
import os
import sys
import shutil
import time
from urllib import *
from time import strftime
from xml.dom import minidom

def main(c):
	start_time = time.time()
	# Set configuration parameters
	try:
		# Process the XML conf file ....
		xmldoc = minidom.parse(c)
		catalog_host = readConfFile(xmldoc, 'catalog_host')
		catalog_port = int(readConfFile(xmldoc, 'catalog_port'))
		catalog_path = readConfFile(xmldoc, 'catalog_path')
		collection_name = readConfFile(xmldoc, 'collection_name')
		cert_file = readConfFile(xmldoc, 'cert_file')
		key_file = readConfFile(xmldoc, 'key_file')
		log_file = readConfFile(xmldoc, 'log_file')
		input_dir = readConfFile(xmldoc, 'input_dir')
		archive_dir = readConfFile(xmldoc, 'archive_dir')
		hold_dir = readConfFile(xmldoc, 'hold_dir')
	except Exception, inst:
		# I had an error so report it and exit script
		print "Unexpected error opening %s: %s" % (c, inst)
		sys.exit(1)
	# Log Starting
	logOut = verifyLogging(log_file)
	if logOut:
		log(logOut, "Processing Started ...")
	# Get list of XML files to process
	if os.path.exists(input_dir):
		files = getFiles2Post(input_dir)
	else:
		if logOut:
			log(logOut, "WARNING!!! Couldn't find input directory: " +
input_dir)
			cleanup(logOut)
		else:
			print "Dir doen't exist: " + input_dir
			sys.exit(1)
	try:
		# Process each file to the catalog
		connection = httplib.HTTPSConnection(catalog_host, catalog_port,
key_file, cert_file)
		for file in files:
			log(logOut, "Processing " + file + " ...")
			try:
				response = post2Catalog(connection, catalog_path, os.path.join
(input_dir, file), collection_name)
				if response.status == 200:
					msg = "Succesfully posted " +  file + " to cataloge ..."
					print msg
					log(logOut, msg)
					# Move file to done directory
					shutil.move(os.path.join(input_dir, file), os.path.join
(archive_dir, file))
				else:
					msg = "Error posting " +  file + " to cataloge [" + response.read
() + "] ..."
					print msg
					log(logOut, response.read())
					# Move file to error dir
					shutil.move(os.path.join(input_dir, file), os.path.join(hold_dir,
file))
			except IOError, (errno):
				print "%s" % (errno)

	except httplib.HTTPException, (e):
		print "Unexpected error %s " % (e)

	run_time = time.time() - start_time
	print 'Run time: %f seconds' % run_time

	# Clean up
	connection.close()
	cleanup(logOut)

# Get an arry of files from the input_dir
def getFiles2Post(d):
	return (os.listdir(d))

# Read out the conf file and set the needed global variable
def readConfFile(xmldoc, tag):
	return (xmldoc.getElementsByTagName(tag)[0].firstChild.data)

# Write out the message to log file
def log(f, m):
	f.write(strftime("%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S") + " : " + m + '\n')

# Clean up and exit
def cleanup(logOut):
	if logOut:
		log(logOut, "Processing Ended ...\n")
		logOut.close()
	sys.exit(0)

# Verify if we can write to the log file and return a file handle if
we can
def verifyLogging(l):
	fh=''  # No logging default behavior
	if os.path.exists(os.path.dirname(l)):
		fh = open(l, 'a')
	return(fh)

# Print out the usage of this script
def printusage():
	print""
	print
"**************************************************************************************************"
	print " Must provide the path to the configuration file when calling
this script ..."
	print " Example: " + sys.argv[0] + " /path_2_configuration_file/
conf.xml"
	print
"**************************************************************************************************"
	print ""
	sys.exit(1)

#############################
# Posting XML file to the Catelog Service
#############################
def post2Catalog(connection, path, file, collection):
	head = {"Content-Type" : "application/x-www-form-urlencoded",
"Accept" : "text/plain"}
	parameters = urlencode({"collection" : collection, "entryxml" : open
(file,'r').read()})
	connection.request('POST', path, parameters, head)
	response = connection.getresponse()
	# To reuse the connection, I have to read the response.  I really
don't care about it so I do nothing with it.
	body = response.read()
	return response

# Main
if __name__ == "__main__":
	_pathname = os.path.dirname(sys.argv[0])
	total=len(sys.argv)
	if len(sys.argv) > 1:
		main(sys.argv[1])
	else:
		printusage()


From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Thu Aug  6 10:52:44 2009
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (Bearophile)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 07:52:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ANN: Python for Bioinformatics book
References: 
Message-ID: 

Sebastian Bassi:

> All code is also available at thehttp://py3.us/##where ## is the code number, for example:http://py3.us/57<

The book looks interesting, but that doesn't look like a good way to
show/offer the code. I suggest to also put it into a zip that can be
downloaded.

Bye,
bearophile


From josepharmbruster at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 11:05:20 2009
From: josepharmbruster at gmail.com (joseph armbruster)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 08:05:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: FCC Amateur Radio database -> SQLite
Message-ID: <1b304bef-150f-405d-a66a-6ec2979a1f2c@a1g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

Here is a quick way to get the amateur radio database from the FCC put
into sqlite.  If anyone has insight into a pure-python import, please
comment.

http://libjoe.blogspot.com/2009/08/loading-up-fcc-license-database.html

Joseph Armbruster
http://www.joevial.com


From kuchunwah01 at yahoo.com  Thu Aug  6 11:19:20 2009
From: kuchunwah01 at yahoo.com (John)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 08:19:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: convert non-delimited to delimited
Message-ID: <768586.94351.qm@web65602.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

I am not really a CS person, but I have a task to import a non-delimited text to an access database.? After some research, I *think* the best way to do this is by first converting the non-delimited text to delimited text, and then import it to the database.? Is this the best way to approach this?? Or is there easier way?

Example:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Test , BTS
0800000532
05/MAY/1945 00:00
Female
858327
AB Pos
�

CMV Neg Req'd
IgA Deficient




Wr(a+)
S-


>> OCT/23/07 08:18:00 TRETHEWEYD >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please fax to:
>> OCT/22/07 09:37:00 [COMBINE] [Combine from person_id 924598 to person_id 858327]
[Following comments for to person_id 924598]
>> OCT/18/07 15:53:00 TRETHEWEYD 2007/10/18 15:52

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Basically there are 2 portions to this.? The first portion consist of 7 lines (Full Name, Medical record number, birth date, gender, internal ID, blood group, phenotype).? The second portion list the different list of requirements, denote by  and .? In the sample shown above, the patient do not have information on phenotype, thus there is the � symbol.? 
?
I am really stump on where to go from here.? Any help would be appreciated it.? I have also include a text file which gives several more examples.
?
Thanks so much!


      __________________________________________________________________
Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! 

http://www.flickr.com/gift/
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From sbassi at clubdelarazon.org  Thu Aug  6 11:34:35 2009
From: sbassi at clubdelarazon.org (Sebastian Bassi)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 12:34:35 -0300
Subject: ANN: Python for Bioinformatics book
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <9e2f512b0908060834g5ad2ce34vbc2df78d16a24f69@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 11:52 AM, Bearophile wrote:
> The book looks interesting, but that doesn't look like a good way to
> show/offer the code. I suggest to also put it into a zip that can be
> downloaded.

Code is also in a directory in the DVD and also inside the virtual
machine. Anyway I think it wouldn't hurt to make a zip and put it
online, so i will do it. Thanks.
Best,
SB.


From rcdailey at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 11:35:57 2009
From: rcdailey at gmail.com (Robert Dailey)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 08:35:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Help with regex
Message-ID: <39e84c94-0054-4a60-b890-65e00cafabfe@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

Hey guys,

I'm creating a python script that is going to try to search a text
file for any text that matches my regular expression. The thing it is
looking for is:

FILEVERSION #,#,#,#

The # symbol represents any number that can be any length 1 or
greater. Example:

FILEVERSION 1,45,10082,3

The regex should only match the exact above. So far here's what I have
come up with:

re.compile( r'FILEVERSION (?:[0-9]+\,){3}[0-9]+' )

This works, but I was hoping for something a bit cleaner. I'm having
to create a special case portion of the regex for the last of the 4
numbers simply because it doesn't end with a comma like the first 3.
Is there a better, more compact, way to write this regex?


From mydevforums at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 11:49:30 2009
From: mydevforums at gmail.com (IronyOfLife)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 08:49:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python configuration question when python scripts are executed 
	using Appweb as web server.
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

Hi Gabriel

On Aug 5, 4:18?pm, "Gabriel Genellina"  wrote:
> En Tue, 04 Aug 2009 10:15:24 -0300, IronyOfLife 
> escribi?:
>
> > On Aug 3, 8:42?pm, "Gabriel Genellina"  wrote:
> >> En Mon, 03 Aug 2009 11:04:07 -0300, IronyOfLife  ?
> >> escribi?:
>
> >> > I have installed python 2.6.2 in windows xp professional machine. I
> >> > have set the following environment variables -- PYTHONPATH. It points
> >> > to following windows folders: python root folder, the lib folder and
> >> > lib-tk folder.
>
> >> Why? Did you read it somewhere? Usually there is no need to set the ?
> >> PYTHONPATH variable at all; remove it.
>
> > Setting PYTHONPATH environment variables is mentioned in Python docs.
>
> Could you provide a link please? Setting PYTHONPATH should not be

Here are couple of links that discusses setting PYTHONPATH environment
variable.
http://docs.python.org/using/windows.html
http://www.daimi.au.dk/~chili/PBI/pythonpath.html

> necesary, and in fact it's a very bad idea. Environment variables are
> global, but Python modules may depend on the Python version, architecture,
> install location... By example, you may install a 64 bits Python 3.1
> version *and* a 32 bits Python 2.5 version and they both can coexist
> peacefully - but an extension module compiled for the former cannot be
> used in the later version. You must build a separate library for each
> version, and install them in two separate directories. But since the
> PYTHONPATH variable is shared by all installations, which directory should
> contain?
> It's best not to use PYTHONPATH at all and rely on other alternatives
> (like .pth files, that are searched relative to the current Python
> executable, so different versions use different configuration files)

I understand your concerns regarding setting of PYTHONPATH while
multiple versions of Python are installed on the same machine. My fix
however does not use PYTHONPATH. The GNUTLS wrapper module for PYTHON
loads the GNUTLS dll's and it was not able to find them. Using FileMon
(win tool) I found out the paths that are scanned and I copied the
dlls to one of such paths. I still do not like this fix. This is a
temporary solution.

Can you explain maybe with some sample how to set .pth files? Maybe
this will resolve my issue.
>
> > I solved the issue temporarily by copying the gnutls related dlls to
> > the path searched by python.exe
>
> Glad to see you could finally fix it!
>
> --
> Gabriel Genellina

Thanks very much for your reply.


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 11:52:51 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 08:52:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	
	
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	 
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro ups.com> 
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	 
	
Message-ID: <96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

Kee Nethery wrote:
> As I struggle through trying to figure out how to make python do ?
> simple stuff for me, I frequently generate samples. If some volunteer ?
> here would point me towards the documentation that would tell me how I ?
> can alter the existing Python docs to include sample code, I'd be more ?
> than happy to do so.

No offence, but the last thing the official documentation needs is
example code written by people learning how to code. Suggest changes,
request clarifications, submit samples for review, sure, but direct
modification by users? I've seen the PHP docs; thanks but no thanks.

> I would like to "do it". Please point me to the docs that tell me how ?
> to "do it" so that we people with newbie questions and a need for ?
> examples can get out of your way and "do it" ourselves.

You start by reading this: http://docs.python.org/documenting/index.html
And this: http://www.python.org/dev/contributing/
And this: http://wiki.python.org/moin/WikiGuidelines

The first link, which directly answers your question, is clearly
listed on the doc contents page as "Documenting Python". I'm uncertain
how the docs could be made any _more_ helpful if people aren't
prepared to put effort into reading them. We're a long way away from
direct upload to the brain, unfortunately.

If you're learning the language, you should also consider using more
appropriate resources:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
http://www.doughellmann.com/PyMOTW/
http://diveintopython.org/

The documentation cannot be all things to all people, and it most
certainly can't be a guide to general programming, which is what often
seems to be the issue with novice users. Python's a great language to
learn how to program in, sure, but I would hate to see that become the
focus of the docs.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Aug  6 12:02:44 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 17:02:44 +0100
Subject: Help with regex
In-Reply-To: <39e84c94-0054-4a60-b890-65e00cafabfe@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <39e84c94-0054-4a60-b890-65e00cafabfe@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A7AFEA4.4050800@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Robert Dailey wrote:
> Hey guys,
> 
> I'm creating a python script that is going to try to search a text
> file for any text that matches my regular expression. The thing it is
> looking for is:
> 
> FILEVERSION #,#,#,#
> 
> The # symbol represents any number that can be any length 1 or
> greater. Example:
> 
> FILEVERSION 1,45,10082,3
> 
> The regex should only match the exact above. So far here's what I have
> come up with:
> 
> re.compile( r'FILEVERSION (?:[0-9]+\,){3}[0-9]+' )
> 
> This works, but I was hoping for something a bit cleaner. I'm having
> to create a special case portion of the regex for the last of the 4
> numbers simply because it doesn't end with a comma like the first 3.
> Is there a better, more compact, way to write this regex?

The character class \d is equivalent to [0-9], and ',' isn't a special
character so it doesn't need to be escaped:

     re.compile(r'FILEVERSION (?:\d+,){3}\d+')


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 12:07:51 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 09:07:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Help with regex
References: <39e84c94-0054-4a60-b890-65e00cafabfe@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2b20f8fe-86e7-452e-ae94-e9179627fc74@y4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 7, 1:35?am, Robert Dailey  wrote:
> I'm creating a python script that is going to try to search a text
> file for any text that matches my regular expression. The thing it is
> looking for is:
>
> FILEVERSION 1,45,10082,3

Would it be easier to do it without regex? The following is untested
but I would probably do it more like this:

TOKEN = 'FILEVERSION '
for line in file:
  if line.startswith(TOKEN):
    version = line[len(TOKEN):]
    maj, min, rev, other = version.split(',')
    break # if there's only one occurance, otherwise do stuff here


From sion at viridian.paintbox  Thu Aug  6 12:11:24 2009
From: sion at viridian.paintbox (Sion Arrowsmith)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 16:11:24 GMT
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro	ups.com>
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Terry Reedy   wrote:
>RayS wrote:
>> http://www.php.net/manual/en/language.types.array.php is a prime example 
>> [ ... ]
>I consider consider this to an unreadable mishmash.
[compared to]
> something compact and readable.

Are you talking about the language or the documentation? 9-)

(Actually, that might be a serious point: does the approach to
documentation reflect language design?)

-- 
\S

   under construction



From atragor at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 12:12:53 2009
From: atragor at gmail.com (Roman)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 20:12:53 +0400
Subject: Help with regex
In-Reply-To: <39e84c94-0054-4a60-b890-65e00cafabfe@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <39e84c94-0054-4a60-b890-65e00cafabfe@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20090806161253.GA6789@localhost>

On 06/08/09 08:35, Robert Dailey wrote:
> Hey guys,
> 
> I'm creating a python script that is going to try to search a text
> file for any text that matches my regular expression. The thing it is
> looking for is:
> 
> FILEVERSION #,#,#,#
> 
> The # symbol represents any number that can be any length 1 or
> greater. Example:
> 
> FILEVERSION 1,45,10082,3
> 
> The regex should only match the exact above. So far here's what I have
> come up with:
> 
> re.compile( r'FILEVERSION (?:[0-9]+\,){3}[0-9]+' )
> 
> This works, but I was hoping for something a bit cleaner. I'm having
> to create a special case portion of the regex for the last of the 4
> numbers simply because it doesn't end with a comma like the first 3.
> Is there a better, more compact, way to write this regex?
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 

Since there cannot be more than one "end of string" you can try this
expression:
re.compile( r'FILEVERSION (?:[0-9]+(,|$)){4}' )


From rcdailey at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 12:14:08 2009
From: rcdailey at gmail.com (Robert Dailey)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 09:14:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Character encoding & the copyright symbol
Message-ID: <29ab0981-b95d-4435-91bd-a7a520419ada@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I'm loading a file via open() in Python 3.1 and I'm getting the
following error when I try to print the contents of the file that I
obtained through a call to read():

UnicodeEncodeError: 'charmap' codec can't encode character '\xa9' in
position 1650: character maps to 

The file is defined as ASCII and the copyright symbol shows up just
fine in Notepad++. However, Python will not print this symbol. How can
I get this to work? And no, I won't replace it with "(c)". Thanks!


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 12:14:51 2009
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 11:14:51 -0500
Subject: How to comment on a Python PEP?
In-Reply-To: <4a7a9779$0$2384$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
References: 
	<4a7a9779$0$2384$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-06 03:42, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote:
>> Is there a mechanism for submitting comments on a Python PEP?
>
> You post to python-dev or comp.lang.python, and you CC the author.

And be sure to put the PEP number in the Subject: line.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From rcdailey at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 12:17:10 2009
From: rcdailey at gmail.com (Robert Dailey)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 09:17:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Help with regex
References: <39e84c94-0054-4a60-b890-65e00cafabfe@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <64c96ebc-ce6f-4657-968e-4cbe77a8303d@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 6, 11:02?am, MRAB  wrote:
> Robert Dailey wrote:
> > Hey guys,
>
> > I'm creating a python script that is going to try to search a text
> > file for any text that matches my regular expression. The thing it is
> > looking for is:
>
> > FILEVERSION #,#,#,#
>
> > The # symbol represents any number that can be any length 1 or
> > greater. Example:
>
> > FILEVERSION 1,45,10082,3
>
> > The regex should only match the exact above. So far here's what I have
> > come up with:
>
> > re.compile( r'FILEVERSION (?:[0-9]+\,){3}[0-9]+' )
>
> > This works, but I was hoping for something a bit cleaner. I'm having
> > to create a special case portion of the regex for the last of the 4
> > numbers simply because it doesn't end with a comma like the first 3.
> > Is there a better, more compact, way to write this regex?
>
> The character class \d is equivalent to [0-9], and ',' isn't a special
> character so it doesn't need to be escaped:
>
> ? ? ?re.compile(r'FILEVERSION (?:\d+,){3}\d+')

But ',' is a special symbol It's used in this way:
{0,3}

This will match the previous regex 0-3 times. Are you sure commas need
not be escaped?

In any case, your suggestions help to clean it up a bit!


From rylesny at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 12:20:28 2009
From: rylesny at gmail.com (ryles)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 09:20:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Web page data and urllib2.urlopen
References: <469a6df4-92da-4fd1-bffd-5fefa8cdf3ed@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <923ea664-5da0-480b-a114-e83c831a44c8@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 5, 4:30?pm, Massi  wrote:
> Hi everyone, I'm using the urllib2 library to get the html source code
> of web pages. In general it works great, but I'm having to do with a
> financial web site which does not provide the souce code I expect. As
> a matter of fact if you try:
>
> import urllib2
> res = urllib2.urlopen("http://www.marketwatch.com/story/mondays-
> biggest-gaining-and-declining-stocks-2009-07-27")
> page = res.read()
> print page
>
> you will see that the printed code is very different from the one
> given, for example, by mozilla. Since I have really little knowledge
> in html I can't even understand if this is a python or html problem.
> Can anyone give me some help?
> Thanks in advance.

Check if setting your user agent to Mozilla results in a different
page:

http://diveintopython.org/http_web_services/user_agent.html


From http  Thu Aug  6 12:20:33 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 06 Aug 2009 09:20:33 -0700
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	
	
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro
	ups.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

alex23  writes:
> No offence, but the last thing the official documentation needs is
> example code written by people learning how to code. Suggest changes,
> request clarifications, submit samples for review, sure, but direct
> modification by users? I've seen the PHP docs; thanks but no thanks.

The PHP docs as I remember are sort of regular (non-publically
editable) doc pages, each of which has a public discussion thread
where people can post questions and answers about the topic of that
doc page.  I thought it worked really well.  The main thing is that
the good stuff from the comment section gets folded into the actual
doc now and then.

There is something similar with the PostgreSQL docs.  There is also
Real World Haskell (http://book.realworld.haskell.org) which has a lot
of interspersed user comments.  It would be cool if Python's doc site
did something like it too.


From michael at stroeder.com  Thu Aug  6 12:26:09 2009
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?UTF-8?B?TWljaGFlbCBTdHLDtmRlcg==?=)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 18:26:09 +0200
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <2qcrk6-doj.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>

Thorsten Kampe wrote:
> * Michael Str?der (Wed, 05 Aug 2009 16:43:09 +0200)
>> These both expressions are equivalent but which is faster or should be
>> used for any reason?
>>
>> u = unicode(s,'utf-8')
>>
>> u = s.decode('utf-8') # looks nicer
> 
> "decode" was added in Python 2.2 for the sake of symmetry to encode(). 

Yes, and I like the style. But...

> It's essentially the same as unicode() and I wouldn't be surprised if it 
> is exactly the same.

Did you try?

> I don't think any measurable speed increase will be noticeable between
> those two.

Well, seems not to be true. Try yourself. I did (my console has UTF-8 as charset):

Python 2.6 (r26:66714, Feb  3 2009, 20:52:03)
[GCC 4.3.2 [gcc-4_3-branch revision 141291]] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import timeit
>>> timeit.Timer("'???????'.decode('utf-8')").timeit(1000000)
7.2721178531646729
>>> timeit.Timer("'???????'.decode('utf8')").timeit(1000000)
7.1302499771118164
>>> timeit.Timer("unicode('???????','utf8')").timeit(1000000)
8.3726329803466797
>>> timeit.Timer("unicode('???????','utf-8')").timeit(1000000)
1.8622009754180908
>>> timeit.Timer("unicode('???????','utf8')").timeit(1000000)
8.651669979095459
>>>

Comparing again the two best combinations:

>>> timeit.Timer("unicode('???????','utf-8')").timeit(10000000)
17.23644495010376
>>> timeit.Timer("'???????'.decode('utf8')").timeit(10000000)
72.087096929550171

That is significant! So the winner is:

unicode('???????','utf-8')

Ciao, Michael.


From philip at semanchuk.com  Thu Aug  6 12:31:27 2009
From: philip at semanchuk.com (Philip Semanchuk)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 12:31:27 -0400
Subject: Character encoding & the copyright symbol
In-Reply-To: <29ab0981-b95d-4435-91bd-a7a520419ada@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <29ab0981-b95d-4435-91bd-a7a520419ada@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 


On Aug 6, 2009, at 12:14 PM, Robert Dailey wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I'm loading a file via open() in Python 3.1 and I'm getting the
> following error when I try to print the contents of the file that I
> obtained through a call to read():
>
> UnicodeEncodeError: 'charmap' codec can't encode character '\xa9' in
> position 1650: character maps to 
>
> The file is defined as ASCII and the copyright symbol shows up just
> fine in Notepad++. However, Python will not print this symbol. How can
> I get this to work? And no, I won't replace it with "(c)". Thanks!

If the file is defined as ASCII and it contains 0xa9, then the file  
was written incorrectly or you were told the wrong encoding. There is  
no such character in ASCII which runs from 0x00 - 0x7f.

The copyright symbol == 0xa9 if the encoding is ISO-8859-1 or  
windows-1252, and since you're on Windows the latter is a likely bet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascii
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iso-8859-1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows-1252


Bottom line is that your file is not in ASCII. Try specifying  
windows-1252 as the encoding. Without seeing your code I can't tell  
you where you need to specify the encoding, but the Python docs should  
help you out.


HTH
Philip



From R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk  Thu Aug  6 12:31:58 2009
From: R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk (Richard Brodie)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 17:31:58 +0100
Subject: Character encoding & the copyright symbol
References: <29ab0981-b95d-4435-91bd-a7a520419ada@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 


"Robert Dailey"  wrote in message 
news:29ab0981-b95d-4435-91bd-a7a520419ada at b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...

> UnicodeEncodeError: 'charmap' codec can't encode character '\xa9' in
> position 1650: character maps to 
>
> The file is defined as ASCII.

That's the problem: ASCII is a seven bit code. What you have is
actually ISO-8859-1 (or possibly Windows-1252).

The different ISO-8859-n variants assign various characters to
to '\xa9'. Rather than being Western-European centric and assuming
ISO-8859-1 by default, Python throws an error when you stray
outside of strict ASCII. 




From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Aug  6 12:34:59 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 17:34:59 +0100
Subject: Help with regex
In-Reply-To: <64c96ebc-ce6f-4657-968e-4cbe77a8303d@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
References: <39e84c94-0054-4a60-b890-65e00cafabfe@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>	
	<64c96ebc-ce6f-4657-968e-4cbe77a8303d@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A7B0633.2030106@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Robert Dailey wrote:
> On Aug 6, 11:02 am, MRAB  wrote:
>> Robert Dailey wrote:
>>> Hey guys,
>>> I'm creating a python script that is going to try to search a text
>>> file for any text that matches my regular expression. The thing it is
>>> looking for is:
>>> FILEVERSION #,#,#,#
>>> The # symbol represents any number that can be any length 1 or
>>> greater. Example:
>>> FILEVERSION 1,45,10082,3
>>> The regex should only match the exact above. So far here's what I have
>>> come up with:
>>> re.compile( r'FILEVERSION (?:[0-9]+\,){3}[0-9]+' )
>>> This works, but I was hoping for something a bit cleaner. I'm having
>>> to create a special case portion of the regex for the last of the 4
>>> numbers simply because it doesn't end with a comma like the first 3.
>>> Is there a better, more compact, way to write this regex?
>> The character class \d is equivalent to [0-9], and ',' isn't a special
>> character so it doesn't need to be escaped:
>>
>>      re.compile(r'FILEVERSION (?:\d+,){3}\d+')
> 
> But ',' is a special symbol It's used in this way:
> {0,3}
> 
> This will match the previous regex 0-3 times. Are you sure commas need
> not be escaped?
> 
> In any case, your suggestions help to clean it up a bit!

By 'special' I mean ones like '?', '*', '(', etc. ',' isn't special in
that sense.

In fact, the {...} quantifier is special only if it's syntactically
correct, otherwise it's just a literal, eg "a{," and a{} are just
literals.


From Samnsparky at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 12:40:23 2009
From: Samnsparky at gmail.com (Sparky)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 09:40:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Two Dimensional Array + ctypes
References: <79d2b3e3-b049-4d70-a56b-6e7f3ea2fa86@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <6a218894-54d3-48d4-8a91-74e02ceefecb@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 5, 11:19?pm, "Gabriel Genellina" 
wrote:
> En Wed, 05 Aug 2009 20:12:09 -0300, Sparky  escribi?:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hello! I am trying to call this method:
>
> > long _stdcall AIBurst(long *idnum, [...]
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? long timeout,
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? float (*voltages)[4],
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? long *stateIOout,
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? long *overVoltage,
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? long transferMode);
>
> > I am having some problems with that ?float (*voltages)[4].
> > ? ? ? ? pointerArray = (ctypes.c_void_p * 4)
> > ? ? ? ? voltages = pointerArray(ctypes.cast(ctypes.pointer
> > ((ctypes.c_long * 4096)()), ctypes.c_void_p), ctypes.cast
> > (ctypes.pointer((ctypes.c_long * 4096)()), ctypes.c_void_p),
> > ctypes.cast(ctypes.pointer((ctypes.c_long * 4096)()),
> > ctypes.c_void_p), ctypes.cast(ctypes.pointer((ctypes.c_long * 4096)
>
> Why c_long and not c_float?
> Anyway, this way looks much more clear to me (and doesn't require a cast):
>
> arr4096_type = ctypes.c_float * 4096
> voltages_type = arr4096_type * 4
> voltages = voltages_type()
>
> > The program runs but the values that come back in the array are not
> > right.
>
> Thay might be due to the long/float confusion.
>
> --
> Gabriel Genellina

Brilliant! Your code is much cleaner and the problem must have been
float vs long.

Thanks,
Sam


From arockinit at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 12:41:06 2009
From: arockinit at gmail.com (Adam N)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 09:41:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Using easy_install, reduncant?
References:  
	
Message-ID: <671c5d83-650b-4a20-9504-b430b1ee8318@d4g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>

On Jul 27, 7:53?pm, David Lyon  wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 09:42:06 -0700 (PDT), ray 
> wrote:
>
> > I am working on a Trac installation. ?I am new to Python. ?To install
> > packages, it is suggested to use setuptools. ?I have not understood
> > the directions.
>
> > I execute ez_install.py.
>
> > Then I attempt to execute easy_install.py setuptools-0.6c9-py2.6.egg.
> > There response that setuptools is already the active version in easy-
> > install.pth. ?Then:
> > Installing easy_install.exe script to C:\Python26\Scripts error: ?C:
> > \Python26\Scripts\Easy_install.exe: Permission denied.
>
> > I have compared the file entries before and after this attempt and
> > there are no new files. ?Is there any problems here? ?What did I miss?
>
> Try using python package manager :http://sourceforge.net/projects/pythonpkgmgr/
>
> You might find it a lot simpler. It will download and install setuptools
> for you if you are still having problems.
>
> David

Is there any solution within the easy_install world?  I'm trying to
run a script (pinax) that calls it specifically so I'd have to do all
sorts of hacking to use pythonpkgmgr.


From rcdailey at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 12:41:07 2009
From: rcdailey at gmail.com (Robert Dailey)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 09:41:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Character encoding & the copyright symbol
References: <29ab0981-b95d-4435-91bd-a7a520419ada@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 6, 11:31?am, "Richard Brodie"  wrote:
> "Robert Dailey"  wrote in message
>
> news:29ab0981-b95d-4435-91bd-a7a520419ada at b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>
> > UnicodeEncodeError: 'charmap' codec can't encode character '\xa9' in
> > position 1650: character maps to 
>
> > The file is defined as ASCII.
>
> That's the problem: ASCII is a seven bit code. What you have is
> actually ISO-8859-1 (or possibly Windows-1252).
>
> The different ISO-8859-n variants assign various characters to
> to '\xa9'. Rather than being Western-European centric and assuming
> ISO-8859-1 by default, Python throws an error when you stray
> outside of strict ASCII.

Thanks for the help guys. Sorry I left out code, I wasn't sure at the
time if it would be helpful. Below is my code:


#========================================================
def GetFileContentsAsString( file ):
   f = open( file, mode='r', encoding='cp1252' )
   contents = f.read()
   f.close()
   return contents

#========================================================
def ReplaceVersion( file, version, regExps ):
   #match = regExps[0].search( 'FILEVERSION 1,45332,2100,32,' )
   #print( match.group() )
   text = GetFileContentsAsString( file )
   print( text )


As you can see, I am trying to load the file with encoding 'cp1252'
which, according to the python 3.1 docs, translates to windows-1252. I
also tried 'latin_1', which translates to ISO-8859-1, but this did not
work either. Am I doing something else wrong?


From rcdailey at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 12:43:42 2009
From: rcdailey at gmail.com (Robert Dailey)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 09:43:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Help with regex
References: <39e84c94-0054-4a60-b890-65e00cafabfe@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <35f72d0f-d659-423a-bea0-955092e02d15@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 6, 11:12?am, Roman  wrote:
> On 06/08/09 08:35, Robert Dailey wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hey guys,
>
> > I'm creating a python script that is going to try to search a text
> > file for any text that matches my regular expression. The thing it is
> > looking for is:
>
> > FILEVERSION #,#,#,#
>
> > The # symbol represents any number that can be any length 1 or
> > greater. Example:
>
> > FILEVERSION 1,45,10082,3
>
> > The regex should only match the exact above. So far here's what I have
> > come up with:
>
> > re.compile( r'FILEVERSION (?:[0-9]+\,){3}[0-9]+' )
>
> > This works, but I was hoping for something a bit cleaner. I'm having
> > to create a special case portion of the regex for the last of the 4
> > numbers simply because it doesn't end with a comma like the first 3.
> > Is there a better, more compact, way to write this regex?
> > --
> >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
> Since there cannot be more than one "end of string" you can try this
> expression:
> re.compile( r'FILEVERSION (?:[0-9]+(,|$)){4}' )

I had thought of this but I can't use that either. I have to assume
that someone was silly and put text at the end somewhere, perhaps a
comment. Like so:

FILEVERSION 1,2,3,4     // This is the file version

It would be nice if there was a type of counter for regex. So you
could say 'match only 1 [^,]' or something like that...


From marduk at letterboxes.org  Thu Aug  6 12:45:43 2009
From: marduk at letterboxes.org (Albert Hopkins)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 12:45:43 -0400
Subject: Character encoding & the copyright symbol
In-Reply-To: <29ab0981-b95d-4435-91bd-a7a520419ada@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <29ab0981-b95d-4435-91bd-a7a520419ada@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1249577143.6168.14.camel@centar>

On Thu, 2009-08-06 at 09:14 -0700, Robert Dailey wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I'm loading a file via open() in Python 3.1 and I'm getting the
> following error when I try to print the contents of the file that I
> obtained through a call to read():
> 
> UnicodeEncodeError: 'charmap' codec can't encode character '\xa9' in
> position 1650: character maps to 
> 
> The file is defined as ASCII and the copyright symbol shows up just
> fine in Notepad++. However, Python will not print this symbol. How can
> I get this to work? And no, I won't replace it with "(c)". Thanks!

It's not actually ASCII but Windows-1252 extended ASCII-like.  So with
that information you can do either of 2 things: You can open it in text
mode and specify the encoding:

>>> fp = open(filename, 'r', encoding='windows-1252')
>>> s = fp.read()
>>> print(s)

or you can open it in binary mode and decode it later:

>>> fp = open(filename, 'rb')
>>> b = fp.read()
>>> print(str(b, encoding='windows-1252'))

Or you may be able to set the default encoding to windows-1252 but I
don't know how to do that (in Windows).

p.s.

Next time it might be helpful to paste a code snippet else we have to
make assumptions about what you are actually doing.



From R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk  Thu Aug  6 13:02:01 2009
From: R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk (Richard Brodie)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 18:02:01 +0100
Subject: Character encoding & the copyright symbol
References: <29ab0981-b95d-4435-91bd-a7a520419ada@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 


"Robert Dailey"  wrote in message 
news:f64f9830-c416-41b1-a510-c1e486271b4e at g19g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...

> As you can see, I am trying to load the file with encoding 'cp1252'
> which, according to the python 3.1 docs, translates to windows-1252. I
> also tried 'latin_1', which translates to ISO-8859-1, but this did not
> work either. Am I doing something else wrong?

Probably it's just the debugging print that has a problem, and if you
opened an output file with an encoding specified it would be fine.
When you get a UnicodeEncodingError, it's conversion _from_
Unicode that has failed. 




From philip at semanchuk.com  Thu Aug  6 13:02:14 2009
From: philip at semanchuk.com (Philip Semanchuk)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 13:02:14 -0400
Subject: Character encoding & the copyright symbol
In-Reply-To: 
References: <29ab0981-b95d-4435-91bd-a7a520419ada@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <1886EEEC-CFDA-40BD-8BAC-64015C4D3672@semanchuk.com>


On Aug 6, 2009, at 12:41 PM, Robert Dailey wrote:

> On Aug 6, 11:31 am, "Richard Brodie"  wrote:
>> "Robert Dailey"  wrote in message
>>
>> news:29ab0981-b95d-4435-91bd-a7a520419ada at b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com 
>> ...
>>
>>> UnicodeEncodeError: 'charmap' codec can't encode character '\xa9' in
>>> position 1650: character maps to 
>>
>>> The file is defined as ASCII.
>>
>> That's the problem: ASCII is a seven bit code. What you have is
>> actually ISO-8859-1 (or possibly Windows-1252).
>>
>> The different ISO-8859-n variants assign various characters to
>> to '\xa9'. Rather than being Western-European centric and assuming
>> ISO-8859-1 by default, Python throws an error when you stray
>> outside of strict ASCII.
>
> Thanks for the help guys. Sorry I left out code, I wasn't sure at the
> time if it would be helpful. Below is my code:
>
>
> #========================================================
> def GetFileContentsAsString( file ):
>   f = open( file, mode='r', encoding='cp1252' )
>   contents = f.read()
>   f.close()
>   return contents
>
> #========================================================
> def ReplaceVersion( file, version, regExps ):
>   #match = regExps[0].search( 'FILEVERSION 1,45332,2100,32,' )
>   #print( match.group() )
>   text = GetFileContentsAsString( file )
>   print( text )
>
>
> As you can see, I am trying to load the file with encoding 'cp1252'
> which, according to the python 3.1 docs, translates to windows-1252. I
> also tried 'latin_1', which translates to ISO-8859-1, but this did not
> work either. Am I doing something else wrong?


Are you getting the error when you read the file or when you  
print(text)?

As a side note, you should probably use something other than "file"  
for the parameter name in GetFileContentsAsString() since file() is a  
Python function.






From kosta.koeman at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 13:27:56 2009
From: kosta.koeman at gmail.com (Kosta)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 10:27:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Using Python to automate builds
References: <84d9ae10-3aee-40a8-97ac-05799da0de64@f18g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<200908050956.33995.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
	<5b8d13220908050508n32f05bep4c275cec14914588@mail.gmail.com> 
	
	
	
Message-ID: <1a236d86-72de-4b43-bc7b-cf0c9bdab615@u38g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 6, 3:57?am, David Cournapeau  wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 12:39 AM, Kosta wrote:
>
> > Setenv.bat sets up the path and other environment variables build.exe
> > needs to compile and link (and even binplace) its utilities. ?So
> > building itself is not the issue. ?The problem is that if I call
> > setenv.bat from Python and then build.exe, but the modifications to
> > the path (and other environment settings) are not seen by Python, so
> > the attempt to build without a specified path fails.
>
> It sounds like you do not propagate the environment when calling
> setenv.bat from python. There is an option to do so in
> subprocess.Popen init method, or you can define your own environment
> if you do not want to propagate the whole environment (but this is
> often difficult to avoid for build environment in my experience,
> expecially if you don't have access to the sources of the whole system
> to check which variables are necessary).
>
> David

David,

Thanks you.  I looked up the docs on Popen (http://docs.python.org/
library/subprocess.html) where I read:

On Windows: the Popen class uses CreateProcess() to execute the child
program, which operates on strings. If args is a sequence, it will be
converted to a string using the list2cmdline() method. Please note
that not all MS Windows applications interpret the command line the
same way: list2cmdline() is designed for applications using the same
rules as the MS C runtime.

My interpretation of the above (and your email) is that using Popen
allows one to pass the Python environment to a child processs (in my
case, setenv.bat).   I need the reverse, to propagate from the child
to the parent.

Thanks,
Kosta



From ladasky at my-deja.com  Thu Aug  6 13:36:40 2009
From: ladasky at my-deja.com (John Ladasky)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 10:36:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Overlap in python
References: 
	<4a7892c2$0$2297$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> 
	
Message-ID: <900c8420-fc28-41d2-8720-518fc48763db@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 4, 3:21?pm, Jay Bird  wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I wanted to thank you all for your help and *excellent* discussion. ?I
> was able to utilize and embed the script by Grigor Lingl in the 6th
> post of this discussion to get my program to work very quickly (I had
> to do about 20 comparisons per data bin, with over 40K bins in
> total). ?I am involved in genomic analysis research and this problem
> comes up a lot and I was surprised to not have been able to find a
> clear way to solve it. ?I will also look through all the tips in this
> thread, I have a feeling they may come in handy for future use!
>
> Thank you again,
> Jay

Hi Jay,

I know this is a bit off-topic, but how does this pertain to genomic
analysis?  Are you counting the lengths of microsatellite repeats or
something?


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Aug  6 13:39:10 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 06 Aug 2009 17:39:10 GMT
Subject: Unexpected side-effects of assigning to sys.modules[__name__]
Message-ID: <028b05d5$0$5185$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

Given this module:

#funny.py
import sys
print "Before:"
print "  __name__ =", __name__
print "  sys.modules[__name__] =", sys.modules[__name__]
sys.modules[__name__] = 123
print "After:"
print "  __name__ =", __name__
print "  sys =", sys


when I run it I get these results:


[steve at sylar python]$ python2.6 funny.py
Before:
  __name__ = __main__
  sys.modules[__name__] = 
After:
  __name__ = None
  sys = None



I'm completely perplexed by this behaviour. sys.modules() seems to be a 
regular dict, at least according to type(), and yet assigning to an item 
of it seems to have unexpected, and rather weird, side-effects.

What am I missing?



-- 
Steven


From nobody at nowhere.com  Thu Aug  6 13:50:23 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 18:50:23 +0100
Subject: Help with regex
References: <39e84c94-0054-4a60-b890-65e00cafabfe@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 17:02:44 +0100, MRAB wrote:

> The character class \d is equivalent to [0-9]

Not for Unicode, which is the default in 3.x.



From nobody at nowhere.com  Thu Aug  6 13:58:10 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 18:58:10 +0100
Subject: Help with regex
References: <39e84c94-0054-4a60-b890-65e00cafabfe@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 08:35:57 -0700, Robert Dailey wrote:

> I'm creating a python script that is going to try to search a text
> file for any text that matches my regular expression. The thing it is
> looking for is:
> 
> FILEVERSION #,#,#,#
> 
> The # symbol represents any number that can be any length 1 or
> greater. Example:
> 
> FILEVERSION 1,45,10082,3
> 
> The regex should only match the exact above. So far here's what I have
> come up with:
> 
> re.compile( r'FILEVERSION (?:[0-9]+\,){3}[0-9]+' )

[0-9]+ allows any number of leading zeros, which is sometimes undesirable.
Using:

	(0|[1-9][0-9]*)

is more robust.



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Thu Aug  6 14:01:42 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 20:01:42 +0200
Subject: Unexpected side-effects of assigning to sys.modules[__name__]
In-Reply-To: <028b05d5$0$5185$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <028b05d5$0$5185$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4A7B1A86.8040609@sequans.com>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Given this module:
>
> #funny.py
> import sys
> print "Before:"
> print "  __name__ =", __name__
> print "  sys.modules[__name__] =", sys.modules[__name__]
> sys.modules[__name__] = 123
> print "After:"
> print "  __name__ =", __name__
> print "  sys =", sys
>
>
> when I run it I get these results:
>
>
> [steve at sylar python]$ python2.6 funny.py
> Before:
>   __name__ = __main__
>   sys.modules[__name__] = 
> After:
>   __name__ = None
>   sys = None
>
>
>
> I'm completely perplexed by this behaviour. sys.modules() seems to be a 
> regular dict, at least according to type(), and yet assigning to an item 
> of it seems to have unexpected, and rather weird, side-effects.
>
> What am I missing?
>
>
>
>   
Maybe when you assign 123 to sys.modules[__name__], you've removed the 
last reference on  and it is 
garbaged. You are then loosing all your initial namespace.


try this one:
#funny.py
import sys
print "Before:"
print "  __name__ =", __name__
print "  sys.modules[__name__] =", sys.modules[__name__]
foo = sys.modules[__name__] # backup ref for the garbage collector
sys.modules[__name__] = 123
print "After:"
print "  __name__ =", __name__
print "  sys =", sys

Jean-Michel




From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Thu Aug  6 14:05:52 2009
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 20:05:52 +0200
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
References: 
	
	<2qcrk6-doj.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
Message-ID: 

* Michael Str?der (Thu, 06 Aug 2009 18:26:09 +0200)
> Thorsten Kampe wrote:
> > * Michael Str?der (Wed, 05 Aug 2009 16:43:09 +0200)
> > I don't think any measurable speed increase will be noticeable
> > between those two.
> 
> Well, seems not to be true. Try yourself. I did (my console has UTF-8 as charset):
> 
> Python 2.6 (r26:66714, Feb  3 2009, 20:52:03)
> [GCC 4.3.2 [gcc-4_3-branch revision 141291]] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> import timeit
> >>> timeit.Timer("'???????'.decode('utf-8')").timeit(1000000)
> 7.2721178531646729
> >>> timeit.Timer("'???????'.decode('utf8')").timeit(1000000)
> 7.1302499771118164
> >>> timeit.Timer("unicode('???????','utf8')").timeit(1000000)
> 8.3726329803466797
> >>> timeit.Timer("unicode('???????','utf-8')").timeit(1000000)
> 1.8622009754180908
> >>> timeit.Timer("unicode('???????','utf8')").timeit(1000000)
> 8.651669979095459
> >>>
> 
> Comparing again the two best combinations:
> 
> >>> timeit.Timer("unicode('???????','utf-8')").timeit(10000000)
> 17.23644495010376
> >>> timeit.Timer("'???????'.decode('utf8')").timeit(10000000)
> 72.087096929550171
> 
> That is significant! So the winner is:
> 
> unicode('???????','utf-8')

Unless you are planning to write a loop that decodes "???????" one 
million times, these benchmarks are meaningless.

Thorsten


From nobody at nowhere.com  Thu Aug  6 14:08:26 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 19:08:26 +0100
Subject: Character encoding & the copyright symbol
References: <29ab0981-b95d-4435-91bd-a7a520419ada@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 09:14:08 -0700, Robert Dailey wrote:

> I'm loading a file via open() in Python 3.1 and I'm getting the
> following error when I try to print the contents of the file that I
> obtained through a call to read():
> 
> UnicodeEncodeError: 'charmap' codec can't encode character '\xa9' in
> position 1650: character maps to 
> 
> The file is defined as ASCII and the copyright symbol shows up just
> fine in Notepad++. However, Python will not print this symbol. How can
> I get this to work? And no, I won't replace it with "(c)". Thanks!

1. As others have said, your file *isn't* ASCII, but that isn't the
problem.

2. The problem is that the encoding which your standard output
stream uses doesn't have the copyright symbol. You need to use something
like:

sys.stdout = io.TextIOWrapper(sys.stdout.detach(), encoding = 'iso-8859-1')
sys.stderr = io.TextIOWrapper(sys.stderr.detach(), encoding = 'iso-8859-1')

to fix the encoding of the stdout and stderr streams.



From python-url at phaseit.net  Thu Aug  6 14:21:58 2009
From: python-url at phaseit.net (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 18:21:58 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Aug  6)
Message-ID: 

QOTW:  "The economy rises and falls, money comes and goes, but a great
conference has permanent good effects.  Well, a lot more permanent than
government fiscal policy, anyway." - Python Software Foundation Director
"bitter-in-victory-gracious-in-defeat-ly y'rs" timbot

    
    Is python free of "buffer overflow" errors?
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/a31faac6feced289/

    Lessons learned in implementation of a write-once dict:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/bc8b91669257e246/

    Methods, attributes, iterators, lambdas, and how Ruby handles them:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/6e4fc61946513405/

    Python 3 allows for custom types to be used as a class namespace 
    not just dicts):
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/50caadd10d2cca16/

    Could Python be used to write a device driver?
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/4efc28f9fe45b69e/

    The various meanings of the underscore character '_' in identifiers:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/e32d577ad3d5a208/

    Generate a new object each time a name is imported:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/b7112f74e2efa8bd/

    heapq.nlargest takes a "key" argument - why not the other functions in
    the same module?
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/a5095d3f4b54f79b/

    Immutable objects and how they could improve concurrency [old thread,
    still alive]:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/cb0cf56c52321ccc/5c82cd09767ba85a?#5c82cd09767ba85a

    How to modify a variable in an outer (non global) scope:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/e0e64250bd82825f/

    Best way to add "private" directories to sys.path:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/cb43cf90d72f6833/

    Interval arithmetic:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/71f050d8f5987244/

    Ensure that no more than three instances of the same program are
    running at the same time:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/af7ae6429c2bda1e/

    Some people don't like the way Python documentation is managed/presented:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/a52b22cd90b15ef8/
    
    
========================================================================
Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    marvelous daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily

    Just beginning with Python?  This page is a great place to start:
	http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide/Programmers

    The Python Papers aims to publish "the efforts of Python enthusiasts":
	http://pythonpapers.org/
    The Python Magazine is a technical monthly devoted to Python:
	http://pythonmagazine.com

    Readers have recommended the "Planet" sites:
	http://planetpython.org
	http://planet.python.org

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python.announce/topics

    Python411 indexes "podcasts ... to help people learn Python ..."
    Updates appear more-than-weekly:
        http://www.awaretek.com/python/index.html

    The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
        http://www.python.org/pypi/

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
    match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
    subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
        http://www.pythonology.com/success

    The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
    Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
    responsibility for Python's development and maintenance.
        http://www.python.org/psf/
    Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
        http://www.python.org/psf/donations/

    The Summary of Python Tracker Issues is an automatically generated
    report summarizing new bugs, closed ones, and patch submissions. 
        http://search.gmane.org/?author=status%40bugs.python.org&group=gmane.comp.python.devel&sort=date

    Although unmaintained since 2002, the Cetus collection of Python
    hyperlinks retains a few gems.
        http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
    interesting recipes.
	http://code.activestate.com/recipes/langs/python/

    Many Python conferences around the world are in preparation.
    Watch this space for links to them.

    Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available, see:
        http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
    For more, see:
        http://www.syndic8.com/feedlist.php?ShowMatch=python&ShowStatus=all
    The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
    SourceForge reincarnation.
        http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
	http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0042/

    del.icio.us presents an intriguing approach to reference commentary.
    It already aggregates quite a bit of Python intelligence.
        http://del.icio.us/tag/python

    Enjoy the *Python Magazine*.
	http://pymag.phparch.com/

    *Py: the Journal of the Python Language*
        http://www.pyzine.com

    Dr.Dobb's Portal is another source of Python news and articles:
        http://www.ddj.com/TechSearch/searchResults.jhtml?queryText=python
    and Python articles regularly appear at IBM DeveloperWorks:
        http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/search/searchResults.jsp?searchSite=dW&searchScope=dW&encodedQuery=python&rankprofile=8

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://search.gmane.org/?query=python+URL+weekly+news+links&group=gmane.comp.python.general&sort=date
  http://groups.google.com/groups/search?q=Python-URL!+group%3Acomp.lang.python&start=0&scoring=d&
  http://lwn.net/Search/DoSearch?words=python-url&ctype3=yes&cat_25=yes

There is *not* an RSS for "Python-URL!"--at least not yet.  Arguments
for and against are occasionally entertained.


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
E-mail to  should get through.

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning
(approximately), ask  to subscribe.  Mention
"Python-URL!".  Write to the same address to unsubscribe.


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Phaseit, Inc. (http://phaseit.net) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.  Watch this space for upcoming
news about posting archives.


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 14:33:06 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 11:33:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	
	
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	 
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro ups.com> 
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	 
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <2eaf5b79-dc0a-4762-9f06-5de7e22381a2@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 6, 11:20?am, Paul Rubin  wrote:
...(snip)
> There is something similar with the PostgreSQL docs. ?There is also
> Real World Haskell (http://book.realworld.haskell.org) which has a lot
> of interspersed user comments. ?It would be cool if Python's doc site
> did something like it too.

hear! hear!


From kee at kagi.com  Thu Aug  6 14:36:31 2009
From: kee at kagi.com (Kee Nethery)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 11:36:31 -0700
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
In-Reply-To: <96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro
	ups.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

As someone trying to learn the language I want to say that the tone on  
this list towards people who are trying to learn Python  feels like it  
has become anti-newbies.

Learning a new language is difficult enough without seeing other  
newbies getting shamed for not knowing everything there is to know  
about Python before asking their questions.

For example, the guy who was looking for Python sample code for the  
Google Map API, calling him a troll was harsh. Suggesting he broach  
the question to Google was a reasonable answer. By the same token, his  
asking this list about the missing Python examples seems reasonable  
also. Seems to me that people on a Python list might have some  
background knowledge or even samples of the Google Python code that  
was no longer on the Google web site.

There seems to be a general consensus among the newbies that other  
languages have a user contributions resource tied to the main official  
docs to allow newbies to teach each other what they have learned. The  
desire is for python.org to have the same kind of support resource so  
that us newbies can self support each other.

Kee Nethery


From dioxide.software at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 14:49:26 2009
From: dioxide.software at gmail.com (KK)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 11:49:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: pylucene installation problem on Ubuntu 9.04
Message-ID: 

hi all,
I've trying to install pylucene on my linux box from last 2 days but
not able to do so. first i tried to install it using apt-get like
this,
kk-laptop$ sudo apt-get install pylucene
and it did install python2.5, python2.5-minimal and pylucene. I must
mention one thing that I already had python2.6 on my box as the
default python i.e /usr/bin/python is linked to python2.6. Anyway s,
now i started the python interpreter using "python" command from cli
and then to make sure pylucene has been installed i tried to import
the module and to my surprise it said "module pylucene not found".
I thought I should enter the python2.6 env and do the same , so i
tried starting the python2.6 interpreter using "python2.6" as the
command and tried importing the same module and again it failed giving
the same irritating message.
 As a final try i pulled the source code of pylucene and as per the
comments given there in the README file, copied the mentioned files to
site-packages directory of python2.6 and then tried importing the
module and then got the same error message saying no module name
pylucene is present. I'm sick of this error !
Can someone point me what is the issue? If it is due to multiple
version of python running on box, can someone tell me which one to
remove or someone tell me how to get the whole thing running? I'll
very much thankful to you guys.

Thanks,
KK.


From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Thu Aug  6 14:50:30 2009
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 19:50:30 +0100
Subject: Parsing Binary Structures; Is there a better way / What is your
	way?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Thanks all for your insights and suggestions.
It seems to me that there are a couple of ways to this bit manipulation 
and a couple of foreign modules to assist you with that.

Would it be worth the while to do a PEP on this?
Personally I think that it would be nice to have a standard module in 
Python for this but perhaps there is a good reason that there isn't 
already one.

-- 
MPH
http://blog.dcuktec.com
'If consumed, best digested with added seasoning to own preference.'


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Thu Aug  6 14:58:13 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 20:58:13 +0200
Subject: Using Python to automate builds
References: <84d9ae10-3aee-40a8-97ac-05799da0de64@f18g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<200908050956.33995.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
	<5b8d13220908050508n32f05bep4c275cec14914588@mail.gmail.com>
	
	
	
	<1a236d86-72de-4b43-bc7b-cf0c9bdab615@u38g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Kosta  (K) wrote:

>K> My interpretation of the above (and your email) is that using Popen
>K> allows one to pass the Python environment to a child processs (in my
>K> case, setenv.bat).   I need the reverse, to propagate from the child
>K> to the parent.

I don't think there is any modern OS that allows that. Unless you use
your own protocol of course, like letting the child write the
environment to its stdout and reading and interpreting it in the parent.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From wescpy at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 15:14:21 2009
From: wescpy at gmail.com (Wesley Chun)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 12:14:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing
References: 
Message-ID: <1fcc79a2-692a-4744-a3e4-122394e3dad9@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Jul 31, 1:10?pm, kj  wrote:
> I'm pretty new to Python, and I like a lot overall, but I find the
> documentation for Python rather poor, overall.
>
> I'm sure that Python experts don't have this problem:


kj,

welcome to Python! i'm sorry that you find the documentation lacking.
the one thing about the docs is that they're just pointers to get you
started and aren't very comprehensive. there are plenty of good online
tutorials out there as well as books. in fact, one of my main
motivations for writing "Core Python Programming" was because when i
learned Python 13 years ago, the online docs were enough to get me
started but did not have enough info to help me become an intermediate
Python programmer. there were only *2*(!) Python books out there, and
they were special-topic oriented, not ones to learn the language from.
it took almost a year and a half to write, but from what i hear from
readers and what has been said in reviews, it's pretty comprehensive,
and is a good book to learn Python from. i only wish that *i* had it
when i was learning!

Most "Python experts" do not have the entire language memorized, so
everyone has to look at the docs from time-to-time, not just
beginners. i'll either hit up http://docs.python.org/library/MODULE.html
or flip open my Nutshell or PER references, and finally, i'll google
if i have to (rare). the Python docs are the language manuals and not
necessarily full reference texts, so you have to just take them for
what they are.

hope this helps!
-- wesley
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Core Python Programming", Prentice Hall, (c)2007,2001
"Python Fundamentals", Prentice Hall, (c)2009
    http://corepython.com

wesley.j.chun :: wescpy-at-gmail.com
python training and technical consulting
cyberweb.consulting : silicon valley, ca
http://cyberwebconsulting.com


From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Aug  6 15:14:41 2009
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 21:14:41 +0200
Subject: Character encoding & the copyright symbol
In-Reply-To: 
References: <29ab0981-b95d-4435-91bd-a7a520419ada@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>		
	
Message-ID: <4A7B2BA1.2020002@v.loewis.de>

> As a side note, you should probably use something other than "file" for
> the parameter name in GetFileContentsAsString() since file() is a Python
> function.

Python 3.1.1a0 (py3k:74094, Jul 19 2009, 13:39:42)
[GCC 4.3.3] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
py> file
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
NameError: name 'file' is not defined

Regards,
Martin



From piet at cs.uu.nl  Thu Aug  6 15:17:16 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 21:17:16 +0200
Subject: Web page data and urllib2.urlopen
References: <469a6df4-92da-4fd1-bffd-5fefa8cdf3ed@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Dave Angel  (DA) wrote:

>DA> Massi wrote:
>>> Hi everyone, I'm using the urllib2 library to get the html source code
>>> of web pages. In general it works great, but I'm having to do with a
>>> financial web site which does not provide the souce code I expect. As
>>> a matter of fact if you try:
>>> 
>>> import urllib2
>>> res = urllib2.urlopen("http://www.marketwatch.com/story/mondays-
>>> biggest-gaining-and-declining-stocks-2009-07-27")
>>> page = res.read()
>>> print page
>>> 
>>> you will see that the printed code is very different from the one
>>> given, for example, by mozilla. Since I have really little knowledge
>>> in html I can't even understand if this is a python or html problem.
>>> Can anyone give me some help?
>>> Thanks in advance.
>>> 
>>> 
>DA> I don't think this is a Python issue, but a "raw read" versus an
>DA> interactive interpretation of a page.  The browser does lots more than a
>DA> single roundtrip defined by urlopen/read.

>DA> I also would love to see some explanation of what happens here, or a
>DA> pointer to a reference that would help me understand it.

>DA> I took the output of the read(), and formatted it, roughly, as html.  I
>DA> expected to find a refresh, which is the simplest way that one page can
>DA> cause a very different one to be loaded.
>DA>      

>DA> If Mozilla had seen a page with this line in an appropriate place, it'd
>DA> immediately begin loading the other page, at "someotherurl"  But there's no
>DA> such line.

>DA> Next, I looked for javascript.  The Mozilla page contains lots of
>DA> javascript, but there's none in the raw page.  So I can't explain Mozilla's
>DA> differences that way.

>DA> I did notice the link to /m/Content/mobile2.css, but I don' t know any way
>DA> a CSS file could cause the content to change, just the display.

>DA> All I can guess is that it has something to do with "browser type" or
>DA> cookies.  And that would make lots of sense if this was a cgi page.  But
>DA> the URL doesn't look like that, as it doesn't end in pl, py, asp, or any of
>DA> another dozen special suffixes.

>DA> Any hints, anybody???

If you look into the HTML that Firefox gets, there is a lot of
javascript in it.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Aug  6 15:17:30 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 06 Aug 2009 19:17:30 GMT
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
References: 
	
	<2qcrk6-doj.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	
Message-ID: <028b1ce0$0$5185$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 20:05:52 +0200, Thorsten Kampe wrote:

> > That is significant! So the winner is:
> > 
> > unicode('???????','utf-8')
> 
> Unless you are planning to write a loop that decodes "???????" one
> million times, these benchmarks are meaningless.

What if you're writing a loop which takes one million different lines of 
text and decodes them once each?


>>> setup = 'L = ["abc"*(n%100) for n in xrange(1000000)]'
>>> t1 = timeit.Timer('for line in L: line.decode("utf-8")', setup)
>>> t2 = timeit.Timer('for line in L: unicode(line, "utf-8")', setup)
>>> t1.timeit(number=1)
5.6751680374145508
>>> t2.timeit(number=1)
2.6822888851165771


Seems like a pretty meaningful difference to me.



-- 
Steven


From philip at semanchuk.com  Thu Aug  6 15:20:48 2009
From: philip at semanchuk.com (Philip Semanchuk)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 15:20:48 -0400
Subject: Character encoding & the copyright symbol
In-Reply-To: <4A7B2BA1.2020002@v.loewis.de>
References: <29ab0981-b95d-4435-91bd-a7a520419ada@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>		
	
	<4A7B2BA1.2020002@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <45B3614D-01A3-4CC2-BB78-5B488BC74841@semanchuk.com>


On Aug 6, 2009, at 3:14 PM, Martin v. L?wis wrote:

>> As a side note, you should probably use something other than "file"  
>> for
>> the parameter name in GetFileContentsAsString() since file() is a  
>> Python
>> function.
>
> Python 3.1.1a0 (py3k:74094, Jul 19 2009, 13:39:42)
> [GCC 4.3.3] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> py> file
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "", line 1, in 
> NameError: name 'file' is not defined


Whooops, didn't know about that change from 2.x to 3.x. Thanks.



From joncle at googlemail.com  Thu Aug  6 15:38:48 2009
From: joncle at googlemail.com (Jon Clements)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 12:38:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: pylucene installation problem on Ubuntu 9.04
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 6 Aug, 19:49, KK  wrote:
> hi all,
> I've trying to install pylucene on my linux box from last 2 days but
> not able to do so. first i tried to install it using apt-get like
> this,
> kk-laptop$ sudo apt-get install pylucene
> and it did install python2.5, python2.5-minimal and pylucene. I must
> mention one thing that I already had python2.6 on my box as the
> default python i.e /usr/bin/python is linked to python2.6. Anyway s,
> now i started the python interpreter using "python" command from cli
> and then to make sure pylucene has been installed i tried to import
> the module and to my surprise it said "module pylucene not found".
> I thought I should enter the python2.6 env and do the same , so i
> tried starting the python2.6 interpreter using "python2.6" as the
> command and tried importing the same module and again it failed giving
> the same irritating message.
> ?As a final try i pulled the source code of pylucene and as per the
> comments given there in the README file, copied the mentioned files to
> site-packages directory of python2.6 and then tried importing the
> module and then got the same error message saying no module name
> pylucene is present. I'm sick of this error !
> Can someone point me what is the issue? If it is due to multiple
> version of python running on box, can someone tell me which one to
> remove or someone tell me how to get the whole thing running? I'll
> very much thankful to you guys.
>
> Thanks,
> KK.

If you installed using apt, have you a pylucene directory under /usr/
local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/?

Also, if you run python, and import sys; print sys.path
whats it show?

Jon.


From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Thu Aug  6 15:48:27 2009
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 15:48:27 -0400
Subject: pylucene installation problem on Ubuntu 9.04
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 2:49 PM, KK wrote:
>
> kk-laptop$ sudo apt-get install pylucene
> and it did install python2.5, python2.5-minimal and pylucene. I must
> mention one thing that I already had python2.6 on my box as the
> default python i.e /usr/bin/python is linked to python2.6. Anyway s,
> now i started the python interpreter using "python" command from cli
> and then to make sure pylucene has been installed i tried to import
> the module and to my surprise it said "module pylucene not found".
> I thought I should enter the python2.6 env and do the same , so i
> tried starting the python2.6 interpreter using "python2.6" as the
> command and tried importing the same module and again it failed giving
> the same irritating message.

Pylucene seems to have installed under Python 2.5. Python extensions
are only installed for one version of python and extensions that use C
may only work under one particular version. If you want to use that
package, run python2.5 from the command line and try importing it.


From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Thu Aug  6 15:54:26 2009
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 15:54:26 -0400
Subject: Character encoding & the copyright symbol
In-Reply-To: 
References: <29ab0981-b95d-4435-91bd-a7a520419ada@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 12:41 PM, Robert Dailey wrote:
> On Aug 6, 11:31?am, "Richard Brodie"  wrote:
>> "Robert Dailey"  wrote in message
>>
>> news:29ab0981-b95d-4435-91bd-a7a520419ada at b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > UnicodeEncodeError: 'charmap' codec can't encode character '\xa9' in
>> > position 1650: character maps to 
>>
>> > The file is defined as ASCII.
>>
>> That's the problem: ASCII is a seven bit code. What you have is
>> actually ISO-8859-1 (or possibly Windows-1252).
>>
>> The different ISO-8859-n variants assign various characters to
>> to '\xa9'. Rather than being Western-European centric and assuming
>> ISO-8859-1 by default, Python throws an error when you stray
>> outside of strict ASCII.
>
> Thanks for the help guys. Sorry I left out code, I wasn't sure at the
> time if it would be helpful. Below is my code:
>
>
> #========================================================
> def GetFileContentsAsString( file ):
> ? f = open( file, mode='r', encoding='cp1252' )
> ? contents = f.read()
> ? f.close()
> ? return contents
>
> #========================================================
> def ReplaceVersion( file, version, regExps ):
> ? #match = regExps[0].search( 'FILEVERSION 1,45332,2100,32,' )
> ? #print( match.group() )
> ? text = GetFileContentsAsString( file )
> ? print( text )
>
>
> As you can see, I am trying to load the file with encoding 'cp1252'
> which, according to the python 3.1 docs, translates to windows-1252. I
> also tried 'latin_1', which translates to ISO-8859-1, but this did not
> work either. Am I doing something else wrong?

This is why we need code and full tracebacks. There's a good chance
that your error is on the print(text) line. That's because sys.stdout
is probably a byte stream without an encoding defined. When you try to
print your unicode string, Python has to convert it to a stream of
bytes. Python refuses to guess on the console encoding and just falls
back to ascii, the conversion fails, and you get your error. Try using
print( text.encode( 'cp1252' ) ) instead.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Aug  6 15:55:57 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 6 Aug 2009 12:55:57 -0700
Subject: Using Python to automate builds
References: <84d9ae10-3aee-40a8-97ac-05799da0de64@f18g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<200908050956.33995.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
	<5b8d13220908050508n32f05bep4c275cec14914588@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
Hendrik van Rooyen   wrote:
>
>Bit slow - but hey, nobody's perfect.

YM "pobody's nerfect" HTH HAND
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"...string iteration isn't about treating strings as sequences of strings, 
it's about treating strings as sequences of characters.  The fact that
characters are also strings is the reason we have problems, but characters 
are strings for other good reasons."  --Aahz


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Aug  6 16:16:33 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 6 Aug 2009 13:16:33 -0700
Subject: How to write replace string for object which will be substituted?
	[regexp]
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
ryniek90   wrote:
>
>I started learning regexp, and some things goes well, but most of them 
>still not.

1) 'Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "I know, I'll use
regular expressions."  Now they have two problems.'
--Jamie Zawinski, comp.emacs.xemacs, 8/1997

2) If you really want to learn regexes, get a copy of _Mastering Regular
Expressions_ by Friedl (either 2nd or 3rd edition)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"...string iteration isn't about treating strings as sequences of strings, 
it's about treating strings as sequences of characters.  The fact that
characters are also strings is the reason we have problems, but characters 
are strings for other good reasons."  --Aahz


From kosta.koeman at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 16:19:31 2009
From: kosta.koeman at gmail.com (Kosta)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 13:19:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Using Python to automate builds
References: <84d9ae10-3aee-40a8-97ac-05799da0de64@f18g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<200908050956.33995.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
	<5b8d13220908050508n32f05bep4c275cec14914588@mail.gmail.com> 
	
	
	
	<1a236d86-72de-4b43-bc7b-cf0c9bdab615@u38g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4703dc01-a41a-4bcd-b225-9ef819105144@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 6, 11:58?am, Piet van Oostrum  wrote:
> >>>>> Kosta  (K) wrote:
> >K> My interpretation of the above (and your email) is that using Popen
> >K> allows one to pass the Python environment to a child processs (in my
> >K> case, setenv.bat). ? I need the reverse, to propagate from the child
> >K> to the parent.
>
> I don't think there is any modern OS that allows that. Unless you use
> your own protocol of course, like letting the child write the
> environment to its stdout and reading and interpreting it in the parent.
> --
> Piet van Oostrum 
> URL:http://pietvanoostrum.com[PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
> Private email: p... at vanoostrum.org

Piet,

Yes you are correct.  Thinking more about parent/child processes and
what I am doing: opening a cmd window (its own process), starting up
Python (a child process), and then attempting to run setenv.bat (a
child process to Python), and yes I'm out of luck.


From davea at ieee.org  Thu Aug  6 16:26:11 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 16:26:11 -0400
Subject: Character encoding & the copyright symbol
In-Reply-To: <29ab0981-b95d-4435-91bd-a7a520419ada@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <29ab0981-b95d-4435-91bd-a7a520419ada@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A7B3C63.2050307@ieee.org>

Robert Dailey wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm loading a file via open() in Python 3.1 and I'm getting the
> following error when I try to print the contents of the file that I
> obtained through a call to read():
>
> UnicodeEncodeError: 'charmap' codec can't encode character '\xa9' in
> position 1650: character maps to 
>
> The file is defined as ASCII and the copyright symbol shows up just
> fine in Notepad++. However, Python will not print this symbol. How can
> I get this to work? And no, I won't replace it with "(c)". Thanks!
>
>   
I see others have alerted you to changes needed in stdout, which is 
ASCII coded by default.

But I wanted to comment on the (c) remark.  If you're in the US, that's 
the wrong abbreviation for copyright.  The only recognized abbreviation 
is (copr).

DaveA


From python at rcn.com  Thu Aug  6 16:47:13 2009
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 13:47:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Subclassing Python's dict
References: 
	<2d56febf0908050732i7792bf7ft32accf1bc1157421@mail.gmail.com> 
	
Message-ID: 

> Are you referring to Python 3.0? ?Python 2.6 does not have
> collections.UserDict

In Python2.6, it is in its own module.

    >>> from UserDict import UserDict


Raymond


From ryniek90 at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 17:03:54 2009
From: ryniek90 at gmail.com (Ryniek90)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 23:03:54 +0200
Subject: How to write replace string for object which will be substituted?
	[regexp]
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A7B453A.4050501@gmail.com>


> 2) If you really want to learn regexes, get a copy of _Mastering Regular
> Expressions_ by Friedl (either 2nd or 3rd edition)
>   

I made preview of that book, but some pages are disabled from preview. 
Has that book topics about Python regexp's?
If so, i must buy it.


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Thu Aug  6 17:08:15 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 14:08:15 -0700
Subject: os.walk()
In-Reply-To: <75c8645a0908050849ua654ec1q6e9c8c83f412d7aa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <75c8645a0908041906s138c1499k59cd57d569a5c83e@mail.gmail.com>
	<50697b2c0908041948q31a30819g29e3d7f196e94074@mail.gmail.com>
	<75c8645a0908050849ua654ec1q6e9c8c83f412d7aa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908061408p79316e22mc5a93f4b1ef17f04@mail.gmail.com>

> On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 10:48 PM, Chris Rebert  wrote:
>> On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 7:06 PM, Michael Savarese wrote:
>> > Greetings
>> > Python newbie here, and thanks to all who have helped me previously.
>> > Is there a way of grabbing file attributes while traversing with os.walk()?
>> > It would be advantageous to have date modified and file size along with the
>> > file name.
>> > If anyone can point me in the right direction, I'd appreciate it.
>>
>> Feed the path to os.stat(), and then use the `stat` module on the result:
>> http://docs.python.org/library/os.html#os.stat
>> http://docs.python.org/library/stat.html#module-stat

2009/8/5 Michael Savarese :
> Chris, thanks for the info.
> I'm a bit stuck here.
>
> am i close?

Yes, you just need to plug some more bricks together (as it were).

> import os, sys
> import os.path
>
> for root, dirs, files in os.walk('c:/Temp'):
>     for name in files:
>         statinfo=os.stat(name)
#see http://docs.python.org/library/os.path.html#os.path.join
        filepath = os.path.join(root, name)
        statinfo = os.stat(filepath)
>
>           print root,dirs,name,statinfo.st_size ; it gets stuck here, i guess it needs the full path.
>                                                                  is this where i use the join function to bring root, dirs, and filename together?
>                                                                  I kinda suck at that too, can you point me in the right direction?
>
> also:
>>>> statinfo.st_mtime
> 1247778166.6563497  can i have a hint on how to convert this?

That is the time represented in seconds since the (UNIX) epoch.
Use the functions in the `time` module to convert it to something more
palatable:
http://docs.python.org/library/time.html

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Thu Aug  6 17:09:28 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 14:09:28 -0700
Subject: How to write replace string for object which will be substituted?
	[regexp]
In-Reply-To: <4A7B453A.4050501@gmail.com>
References: 
	<4A7B453A.4050501@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908061409u2295f111l808f1eafc9142668@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 2:03 PM, Ryniek90 wrote:
>> 2) If you really want to learn regexes, get a copy of _Mastering Regular
>> Expressions_ by Friedl (either 2nd or 3rd edition)
>>
>
> I made preview of that book, but some pages are disabled from preview. Has
> that book topics about Python regexp's?
> If so, i must buy it.

Yes, Python is among the language APIs covered.

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From python at rcn.com  Thu Aug  6 17:18:14 2009
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 14:18:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Subclassing Python's dict
References: 
	<2d56febf0908050732i7792bf7ft32accf1bc1157421@mail.gmail.com> 
	
	
Message-ID: <3fadb25e-6457-4c2e-96a0-6d917ebba08b@2g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

> Xavier Ho wrote:
> > You should subclass collections.UserDict, and not the default dict class.
> > Refer to the collections module.
>
> Xavier, why do you think that is the correct approach? The docs say
> "The need for this class has been largely supplanted by the ability to
> subclass directly from dict (a feature that became available starting
> with Python version 2.2)."

UserDict can be a good choice because the pure python source makes
it clear exactly what needs to be overridden (you can see which
methods are implemented in terms of lower level methods and which
ones access the underlying dict directly.

Another choice is to use DictMixin or MutableMapping and fill-in just
the required abstract methods.  This approach is simple and
flexible.
It allows you to wrap a mapping interface around many different
classes
(a dbm for example).  The disadvantage is that it can be slow.

Subclassing a dict is typically done when the new class has to be
substitutable for real dicts (perhaps an API enforces a check
for instance(x, dict) or somesuch).  As the OP found out, the
dict methods all access the underlying structure directly, so
you will need to override *all* methods that need to have a new
behavior.  The remaining methods are inherited and run at C speed,
so performance may dictate this approach.

So, there you have three ways to do it.  In Py3.1, we used the latter
approach for collections.Counter() -- that gives a high speed on the
inherited methods.  For collections.OrderedDict, a hybrid approach
was used (subclassing from both dict and MutableMapping).  Most of
the work is done by MutableMapping and the dict is inherited so that
the OrderedDict objects would be substitutable anywhere regular
dicts are expected.  And IIRC, there are still some cases of UserDict
being used in the python source (situations where subclassing from
dict wouldn't work as well).


Raymond



From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Thu Aug  6 17:23:47 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 14:23:47 -0700
Subject: Help with regex
In-Reply-To: 
References: <39e84c94-0054-4a60-b890-65e00cafabfe@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4A7B49E3.3000908@stoneleaf.us>

Nobody wrote:
> On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 08:35:57 -0700, Robert Dailey wrote:
> 
> 
>>I'm creating a python script that is going to try to search a text
>>file for any text that matches my regular expression. The thing it is
>>looking for is:
>>
>>FILEVERSION #,#,#,#
>>
>>The # symbol represents any number that can be any length 1 or
>>greater. Example:
>>
>>FILEVERSION 1,45,10082,3
>>
>>The regex should only match the exact above. So far here's what I have
>>come up with:
>>
>>re.compile( r'FILEVERSION (?:[0-9]+\,){3}[0-9]+' )
> 
> 
> [0-9]+ allows any number of leading zeros, which is sometimes undesirable.
> Using:
> 
> 	(0|[1-9][0-9]*)
> 
> is more robust.

You make a good point about possibly being undesirable, but I question 
the assertion that your solution is /more robust/.  If the OP 
wants/needs to match numbers even with leading zeroes your /more robust/ 
version fails.

~Ethan~



From nils at ccsg.de  Thu Aug  6 17:28:29 2009
From: nils at ccsg.de (Nils Ruettershoff)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 23:28:29 +0200
Subject: Seeding the rand() Generator
In-Reply-To: 
References: 			
	
Message-ID: <4A7B4AFD.9030808@ccsg.de>

Hi Fred,

I just saw your SQL Statement
> 	An example would be: SELECT first, second, third, fourth,
> fifth, sixth from sometable order by rand() limit 1
>
>   
and I feel  me  constrained to give you an advice. Don't use this SQL 
statement to pick up a random row, your user and maybe DBA would much 
appreciate it.
You are certainly asking why. Lets have a brief look what you are asking 
your mysql DB:

Fetch all rows from 'sometable', but only with attribute 'first, 
second,...' sort them all starting at 'random row' and afterward through 
anything away you did before, but the first line

If you have a table with 100000 rows you would fetch and sort up to 
100000 rows, pick up one row and discard up to 99999 rows. That sounds 
not very clever, right?

So please take a look at this site to get a better alternate way for 
that approach:

http://jan.kneschke.de/projects/mysql/order-by-rand/

if you want to know more please check this article too:

http://jan.kneschke.de/2007/2/22/analyzing-complex-queries

regards,

Nils



From bdezonia at wisc.edu  Thu Aug  6 17:57:00 2009
From: bdezonia at wisc.edu (BDZ)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 14:57:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: os.path.exists() and Samba shares
References: <42f0c423-657f-45fb-bec5-67dcdda9f4ad@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<3fdc924a-75ad-477a-be2e-6e42ce7bff0c@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> 
	<337482f9-8ad9-4600-9cf4-39911f5368ac@h31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: 

On Jul 31, 10:56?pm, "Gabriel Genellina" 
wrote:
> En Fri, 31 Jul 2009 13:33:45 -0300, BDZ  escribi?:
>
>
>
> > On Jul 30, 4:41?pm, Lo?c Domaign? 
> > wrote:
> >> > Hello. I have written a Python 3.1 script running on Windows that uses
> >> > os.path.exists() to connect to network shares. If the various network
> >> > shares require different user account and password combos than the
> >> > account the script is running under the routine returns false. I need
> >> > something like os.samba.path.exists(username,password,path). Does
> >> > anyone have a suggestion on how I can accomplish what I need to do in
> >> > Python?
>
> >> Could the Python Samba module PySamba be interesting for ?
> >> you?http://sourceforge.net/projects/pysamba/
>
> > Unfortunately, although it has the calls I'd want, pysamba appears to
> > be *nix only. I need something that will work under Windows. Is there
> > a set of Python Windows functions (official or contributed) that might
> > do what I need? (I'm new to Python)
>
> SAMBA is a Linux implementation of the SMB protocol, natively supported on
> Windows. You may use the pywin32 package (available on sourceforge.net) to
> call the WNetAddConnection2 Windows function:http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa385413(VS.85).aspx
>
> --
> Gabriel Genellina

The WNetAddConnection2 function under pywin32 seems to work. I am able
to make connections to various SMB network resources hosted by
Windows, Mac, and Linux boxes. It has the annoying side effect of
opening a connection.

There is a Win32 function called NetShareCheck. It sounds perfect. It
just checks that the share exists (no connection left open) and does
not require username or password. Unfortunately it fails for Mac and
Linux SMB resources. Just FYI.

I understand Samba and Windows SMB are not the same thing. What I was
hoping for when I investigated pySamba was to find a python module/
extension that supported a simple SMB interface and would run from any
host platform.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Aug  6 18:05:24 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 23:05:24 +0100
Subject: XML flaw
Message-ID: <4A7B53A4.2000508@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Hi all,

I've just read this article, which mentions Python:

XML flaw threatens millions of apps with DoS attacks
http://infoworld.com/print/86340

Something to worry about?


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Aug  6 18:09:14 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 06 Aug 2009 22:09:14 GMT
Subject: Unexpected side-effects of assigning to sys.modules[__name__]
References: <028b05d5$0$5185$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <0004d7c9$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 20:01:42 +0200, Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:


> > I'm completely perplexed by this behaviour. sys.modules() seems to be
> > a regular dict, at least according to type(), and yet assigning to an
> > item of it seems to have unexpected, and rather weird, side-effects.
> >
> > What am I missing?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> Maybe when you assign 123 to sys.modules[__name__], you've removed the
> last reference on  and it is
> garbaged. You are then loosing all your initial namespace.

By Jove, I think you've got it! How obvious in hindsight. Thank you.





-- 
Steven


From davea at ieee.org  Thu Aug  6 18:17:02 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 18:17:02 -0400
Subject: Web page data and urllib2.urlopen
In-Reply-To: 
References: <469a6df4-92da-4fd1-bffd-5fefa8cdf3ed@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>	
	
Message-ID: <4A7B565E.9000508@ieee.org>



Piet van Oostrum wrote:
> 
>> DA> If Mozilla had seen a page with this line in an appropriate place, it'd
>> DA> immediately begin loading the other page, at "someotherurl"  But there's no
>> DA> such line.
>>     
>
>   
>> DA> Next, I looked for javascript.  The Mozilla page contains lots of
>> DA> javascript, but there's none in the raw page.  So I can't explain Mozilla's
>> DA> differences that way.
>>     
>
>   
>> DA> I did notice the link to /m/Content/mobile2.css, but I don' t know any way
>> DA> a CSS file could cause the content to change, just the display.
>>     
>
>   
>> DA> All I can guess is that it has something to do with "browser type" or
>> DA> cookies.  And that would make lots of sense if this was a cgi page.  But
>> DA> the URL doesn't look like that, as it doesn't end in pl, py, asp, or any of
>> DA> another dozen special suffixes.
>>     
>
>   
>> DA> Any hints, anybody???
>>     
>
> If you look into the HTML that Firefox gets, there is a lot of
> javascript in it.
>   

But the raw page didn't have any javascript.  So what about that 
original raw page triggered additional stuff to be loaded?
Is it "user agent", as someone else brought out?  And is there somewhere 
I can read more about that aspect of things?  I've mostly built very 
static html pages, where the server yields the same page to everybody.  
And some form stuff, where the  user clicks on a 'submit" button to 
trigger a script that's not shown on the URL line.





From clp2 at rebertia.com  Thu Aug  6 18:23:16 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 15:23:16 -0700
Subject: XML flaw
In-Reply-To: <4A7B53A4.2000508@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <4A7B53A4.2000508@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908061523k5ce10b8eldccd4089e6f70e63@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 3:05 PM, MRAB wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I've just read this article, which mentions Python:
>
> XML flaw threatens millions of apps with DoS attacks
> http://infoworld.com/print/86340
>
> Something to worry about?

More detailed article:
http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=4609

Quote:
"If you own any of the following libraries you need to be alert and
ready to patch:
    * Python libexpat"
AKA xml.parsers.expat AKA pyexpat

The good news: "[a patch] is in process for Python."

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Aug  6 18:23:16 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 23:23:16 +0100
Subject: XML flaw
In-Reply-To: <4A7B53A4.2000508@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <4A7B53A4.2000508@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: 

MRAB wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I've just read this article, which mentions Python:
> 
> XML flaw threatens millions of apps with DoS attacks
> http://infoworld.com/print/86340
> 
> Something to worry about?
No.  Discussing letting Tom, Dick and Harriet loose on the Python 
documentaion is far more important than trivial issues like Denial of 
Service atacks via XML.

Sorry, just couldn't resist.

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From REMpeteOVE at petezilla.co.uk  Thu Aug  6 19:04:46 2009
From: REMpeteOVE at petezilla.co.uk (Peter Chant)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 00:04:46 +0100
Subject: Setuptools - help!
Message-ID: 

Chaps,

any ideas, I'm floundering - I don't quite get it.  I have the following
files, setup.py and main.py in a directory pphoto:

# more setup.py
from setuptools import setup, find_packages
setup(
    name = "Pphoto",
    version = "0.1",
    packages = find_packages(),

    # other arguments here...
    entry_points = {'console_scripts': ['foo = pphoto.main:HelloWorld',]}


)

bash-3.1# more main.py


def HelloWorld():
    print "Hello World!"

print "Odd world"


>From various websites that should produce a script foo that runs HelloWorld. 
It does produce a script that simply crashes.

bash-3.1# foo
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/bin/foo", line 8, in 
    load_entry_point('Pphoto==0.1', 'console_scripts', 'foo')()
  File "build/bdist.linux-i686/egg/pkg_resources.py", line 277, in
load_entry_point
  File "build/bdist.linux-i686/egg/pkg_resources.py", line 2098, in
load_entry_point
  File "build/bdist.linux-i686/egg/pkg_resources.py", line 1831, in load
ImportError: No module named pphoto.main
bash-3.1#            


Note, doing this as root as it seems not to do anything usefull at all if I
run python setup develop as a user. 

Any ideas?  I must be missing something fundamental?

Pete


-- 
http://www.petezilla.co.uk


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 19:17:26 2009
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 18:17:26 -0500
Subject: Setuptools - help!
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-06 18:04, Peter Chant wrote:
> Chaps,
>
> any ideas, I'm floundering - I don't quite get it.  I have the following
> files, setup.py and main.py in a directory pphoto:
>
> # more setup.py
> from setuptools import setup, find_packages
> setup(
>      name = "Pphoto",
>      version = "0.1",
>      packages = find_packages(),
>
>      # other arguments here...
>      entry_points = {'console_scripts': ['foo = pphoto.main:HelloWorld',]}
>
>
> )
>
> bash-3.1# more main.py
>
>
> def HelloWorld():
>      print "Hello World!"
>
> print "Odd world"
>
>
>> From various websites that should produce a script foo that runs HelloWorld.
> It does produce a script that simply crashes.
>
> bash-3.1# foo
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "/usr/bin/foo", line 8, in
>      load_entry_point('Pphoto==0.1', 'console_scripts', 'foo')()
>    File "build/bdist.linux-i686/egg/pkg_resources.py", line 277, in
> load_entry_point
>    File "build/bdist.linux-i686/egg/pkg_resources.py", line 2098, in
> load_entry_point
>    File "build/bdist.linux-i686/egg/pkg_resources.py", line 1831, in load
> ImportError: No module named pphoto.main
> bash-3.1#
>
>
> Note, doing this as root as it seems not to do anything usefull at all if I
> run python setup develop as a user.
>
> Any ideas?  I must be missing something fundamental?

You need to put main.py into the pphoto package.

$ mkdir pphoto/
$ mv main.py pphoto/
$ touch pphoto/__init__.py

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From dfnsonfsduifb at gmx.de  Thu Aug  6 20:55:27 2009
From: dfnsonfsduifb at gmx.de (Johannes Bauer)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 02:55:27 +0200
Subject: Python3: Using sorted(key=...)
Message-ID: <7e1cbuF2dfhtoU1@mid.dfncis.de>

Hello list,

I'm having trouble with a incredibly simple sort of a list containing
ints and tuples:

def myorder(x):
	if type(x) == int:
		return x
	else:
		return x[0]

odata = sorted([ (a, b) for (a, b) in data["description"].items() ],
key=myorder)

still says:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./genproto.py", line 81, in 
    odata = sorted([ (a, b) for (a, b) in data["description"].items() ],
key=myorder)
TypeError: unorderable types: tuple() < int()

Why is that? Am I missing something very obvious?

Kind regards,
Johannes

-- 
"Du bist einfach nur l?cherlich! Mit solchen albernen und hohlen S?tzen
kannst du mir nicht impr?gnieren."
-- Hobbycholeriker Jens Fittig aka Wolfgang Gerber in de.sci.electronics
                             <4a6f44d0$0$12481$9b622d9e at news.freenet.de>


From jabronson at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 21:10:39 2009
From: jabronson at gmail.com (Joshua Bronson)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 18:10:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: heapq "key" arguments
References: <97932d10-8601-401f-bb69-a98db9036929@p15g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 3, 1:36?pm, Raymond Hettinger  wrote:
> [Joshua Bronson]:
>
> > According tohttp://docs.python.org/library/heapq.html, Python 2.5
> > added an optional "key" argument to heapq.nsmallest and
> > heapq.nlargest. I could never understand why they didn't also add a
> > "key" argument to the other relevant functions (heapify, heappush,
> > etc).
>
> The problem is that heapq acts on regular lists, so it does not
> have exclusive access to the structure. ?So, there is no reliable
> way for it to maintain a separate list of keys. ?Since the keys
> can't be saved in the structure (without possibly breaking other
> code), the fine grained heapq functions (like heappop and heappush)
> would need to call key functions every time they are invoked.
> This is at odds with the implicit guarantee of the key function
> that it will be called no more than once per key.
>
> The overall problem is one of granularity. ?A key function should
> be applied once in an initial pass, not on every call to a push/pop
> function. ?The everyday solution that most people use is to operate
> on a list of (key, record) tuples and let tuple comparison do the
> work for you. ?Another solution is to build a Heap class that does
> have exclusive access to the structure, but the API sugar often
> isn't worth the slightly weaker performance.
>
> One other thought. ?Heaps are a lazy evaluation structure, so their
> fined-grained mutation functions only work well with just a single
> ordering function, so there is not need to have (and every reason
> to avoid) changing key functions in mid-stream. ?IOW, the key
> function needs to be constant across all accesses. ?Contrast this
> with other uses of key functions where it makes perfect sense
> to run minage=min(data, key=attrgetter('age')) and then running
> minsal=min(data, key=attrgetter('salary')). ?The flexibility to
> change key functions just doesn't make sense in the context of
> the fine-grained heap functions.
>
> Accordingly, this is why I put key functions in nlargest() and
> nsmallest() but not in heappush() and friends. ?The former can
> guarantee no more than one key function call per entry and they
> evaluate immediately instead of lazily.
>
> Raymond


I see, that makes sense. Thanks for the great explanation.

Josh


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Thu Aug  6 21:24:22 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 22:24:22 -0300
Subject: Help making this script better
References: <2f8e34ec-01aa-4ec4-9636-a8ec1f87c68c@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

En Thu, 06 Aug 2009 11:50:07 -0300, jakecjacobson  
 escribi?:

> After much Google searching and trial & error, I was able to write a
> Python script that posts XML files to a REST API using HTTPS and
> passing PEM cert & key file.  It seems to be working but would like
> some pointers on how to handle errors.  I am using Python 2.4, I don't
> have the capability to upgrade even though I would like to.  I am very
> new to Python so help will be greatly appreciated and I hope others
> can use this script.

Just a few remarks, mostly on style rather than functionality:

> #!/usr/bin/python
> #################################################################
> # catalog_feeder.py
> #################################################################
> # This sciript will process a directory of XML files and push them to
> the Enterprise Catalog.
> #  You configure this script by using a configuration file that
> describes the required variables.
> #  The path to this file is either passed into the script as a command
> line argument or hard coded
> #  in the script.  The script will terminate with an error if it can't
> process the XML file.
> #################################################################

Note that Python has "docstrings" - the __doc__ attribute attached to  
every module, class and function. The very first string in the  
module/function/class becomes its docstring. The interactive help system  
-and other tools like pydoc- can inspect and show such info.
The above comment could serve perfectly as this module's docstring - just  
remove all the #'s and enclose the whole text in """triple quotes"""  
(required as it spawns many lines).
By example, in that case you could print the text in your usage() function  
like this:
print __doc__

> 	try:
> 		# Process the XML conf file ....
> 		xmldoc = minidom.parse(c)
> 		catalog_host = readConfFile(xmldoc, 'catalog_host')
> 		catalog_port = int(readConfFile(xmldoc, 'catalog_port'))
> 		catalog_path = readConfFile(xmldoc, 'catalog_path')
> 		collection_name = readConfFile(xmldoc, 'collection_name')
> 		cert_file = readConfFile(xmldoc, 'cert_file')
> 		key_file = readConfFile(xmldoc, 'key_file')
> 		log_file = readConfFile(xmldoc, 'log_file')
> 		input_dir = readConfFile(xmldoc, 'input_dir')
> 		archive_dir = readConfFile(xmldoc, 'archive_dir')
> 		hold_dir = readConfFile(xmldoc, 'hold_dir')
> 	except Exception, inst:
> 		# I had an error so report it and exit script
> 		print "Unexpected error opening %s: %s" % (c, inst)
> 		sys.exit(1)

Ok, an unexpected error: but *which* one? doing exactly *what*? You're  
hiding important information (the error type, the full traceback, the  
source line that raised the error...) that's very valuable when something  
goes wrong and you have to determine what happened.
In this case, you're adding a bit of information: the name of the file  
being processed. That's good. But at the same time, hiding all the other  
info, and that's not so good. What about this:

	except Exception:
		print >>sys.stderr, "Unexpected error opening %s" % c
		raise

The final raise will propagate the exception; by default, Python will  
print the exception type, the exception value, the full traceback  
including source lines, and exit the script with a status code of 1. The  
same effect that you intended, but more complete.

In other cases, where you don't have anything to add to the default  
exception handling, the best thing to do is: nothing. That is, don't catch  
an exception unless you have something good to do with it. (Exceptions  
aren't Pok?mon: you don't have to "catch 'em all!")

> 	# Log Starting
> 	logOut = verifyLogging(log_file)
> 	if logOut:
> 		log(logOut, "Processing Started ...")

I would move the decision into the log function (that is, just write  
log("something") and make the log function decide whether to write to file  
or not). For your next script, look at the logging module:  
http://docs.python.org/library/logging.html

> # Get an arry of files from the input_dir
> def getFiles2Post(d):
> 	return (os.listdir(d))

Note that return isn't a function but a statement. You don't need the  
outer (). Also, using a docstring instead of a comment:

def getFiles2Post(input_dir):
     "Return the list of files in input_dir to process"
     return os.listdir(input_dir)

> # Read out the conf file and set the needed global variable
> def readConfFile(xmldoc, tag):
> 	return (xmldoc.getElementsByTagName(tag)[0].firstChild.data)

Same as above. Which "needed global variable"?

> def cleanup(logOut):
>       [...]	sys.exit(0)

Exiting the script from everywhere makes it harder to reuse some of its  
functions later. Just return the desired status code to the caller, which  
in turn will return to main(), until it gets to the outermost level, which  
is the only place I'd use sys.exit()

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From michael at stroeder.com  Thu Aug  6 21:25:03 2009
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?UTF-8?B?TWljaGFlbCBTdHLDtmRlcg==?=)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 03:25:03 +0200
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	<2qcrk6-doj.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Thorsten Kampe wrote:
> * Michael Str?der (Thu, 06 Aug 2009 18:26:09 +0200)
>>>>> timeit.Timer("unicode('???????','utf-8')").timeit(10000000)
>> 17.23644495010376
>>>>> timeit.Timer("'???????'.decode('utf8')").timeit(10000000)
>> 72.087096929550171
>>
>> That is significant! So the winner is:
>>
>> unicode('???????','utf-8')
> 
> Unless you are planning to write a loop that decodes "???????" one 
> million times, these benchmarks are meaningless.

Well, I can tell you I would not have posted this here and checked it if it
would be meaningless for me. You don't have to read and answer this thread if
it's meaningless to you.

Ciao, Michael.


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Thu Aug  6 21:27:51 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 18:27:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Help with regex
References: <39e84c94-0054-4a60-b890-65e00cafabfe@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 7, 7:23?am, Ethan Furman  wrote:
> Nobody wrote:
> > On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 08:35:57 -0700, Robert Dailey wrote:
>
> >>I'm creating a python script that is going to try to search a text
> >>file for any text that matches my regular expression. The thing it is
> >>looking for is:
>
> >>FILEVERSION #,#,#,#
>
> >>The # symbol represents any number that can be any length 1 or
> >>greater. Example:
>
> >>FILEVERSION 1,45,10082,3
>
> >>The regex should only match the exact above. So far here's what I have
> >>come up with:
>
> >>re.compile( r'FILEVERSION (?:[0-9]+\,){3}[0-9]+' )
>
> > [0-9]+ allows any number of leading zeros, which is sometimes undesirable.
> > Using:
>
> > ? ?(0|[1-9][0-9]*)
>
> > is more robust.
>
> You make a good point about possibly being undesirable, but I question
> the assertion that your solution is /more robust/. ?If the OP
> wants/needs to match numbers even with leading zeroes your /more robust/
> version fails.

I'd go further: the OP would probably be better off matching anything
that looked vaguely like an attempt to produce what he wanted e.g.
r"FILEVERSION\s*[0-9,]{3,}" and then taking appropriate action based
on whether that matched a "strictly correct" regex.



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Thu Aug  6 21:29:19 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 22:29:19 -0300
Subject: Subclassing Python's dict
References: 
	<2d56febf0908050732i7792bf7ft32accf1bc1157421@mail.gmail.com>
	
	
	<2d56febf0908060126i323d499fla4b7a22c934c5e7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

En Thu, 06 Aug 2009 05:26:22 -0300, Xavier Ho 
escribi?:
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 1:19 PM, alex23  wrote:
>> Xavier Ho wrote:
>> > You should subclass collections.UserDict, and not the default dict  
>> class.
>>
>> Xavier, why do you think that is the correct approach?
>
> I'll be honest first and say that I do not completely understand how  
> dict is
> implemented in the underlying C structure. But as Bruno had already
> mentioned, dict has a slightly different behaviour then we'd expect. For
> example, the __getitem__() function isn't actually used by the  
> interpreter
> (which, you know, *can* be a problem.)

Thinks have evolved...
Before Python 2.2, builtin types were not subclassable. You could not
inherit from dict. In order to write another mapping class, you had to
write the complete interface - or inherit from UserDict, that was a
concrete class implementing the mapping protocol.

Later, DictMixin was added (in 2.3) and it made easier to write other
mapping classes: one had to write the most basic methods (__getitem__ /
__setitem__ / __delitem__ / keys) and the DictMixin provided the remaining
functionality (e.g. values() is built from keys() plus __getitem__). Later
releases allowed an even more modular approach, and until 2.5 DictMixin
was the recommended approach.

Then came 3.0/2.6 and PEP3119 defining a rich hierarchy of abstract base
classes; a normal dictionary implements the MutableMapping ABC and this is
the preferred approach now (the MutableMapping implementation is very
similar to the original DictMixin, but builds on the other base classes
like Sized, Iterable...)

> I didn't realise they took UserDict out in later versions (2.6, for
> example), and put it back in Python 3.0. Does anyone know why?

UserDict still exists on both releases (collections.UserDict on 3.x), but
it's not the preferred approach to implement a new mapping class anymore.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Aug  6 21:33:27 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 02:33:27 +0100
Subject: Python3: Using sorted(key=...)
In-Reply-To: <7e1cbuF2dfhtoU1@mid.dfncis.de>
References: <7e1cbuF2dfhtoU1@mid.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <4A7B8467.8060101@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Johannes Bauer wrote:
> Hello list,
> 
> I'm having trouble with a incredibly simple sort of a list containing
> ints and tuples:
> 
> def myorder(x):
> 	if type(x) == int:
> 		return x
> 	else:
> 		return x[0]
> 
> odata = sorted([ (a, b) for (a, b) in data["description"].items() ],
> key=myorder)
> 
You're sorting a list of tuples (key/value pairs), so 'myorder' is
always given a tuple.

> still says:
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "./genproto.py", line 81, in 
>     odata = sorted([ (a, b) for (a, b) in data["description"].items() ],
> key=myorder)
> TypeError: unorderable types: tuple() < int()
> 
> Why is that? Am I missing something very obvious?
> 
Are some keys 'int' and others 'tuple'? In Python 3.x you can't compare
them except for equality:


Python 2.6.2 (r262:71605, Apr 14 2009, 22:40:02) [MSC v.1500 32 bit 
(Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> (1, ) < 1
False


Python 3.1 (r31:73574, Jun 26 2009, 20:21:35) [MSC v.1500 32 bit 
(Intel)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> (1, ) < 1
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "", line 1, in 
TypeError: unorderable types: tuple() < int()


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Thu Aug  6 22:01:24 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 02:01:24 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
References: 
	<1249487636.7120.798.camel@arrakis>
	
	<1249568141.10840.37.camel@arrakis>
Message-ID: 

Jason Tackaberry  urandom.ca> writes:

> On Thu, 2009-08-06 at 01:31 +0000, John Machin wrote:

> > Suggested further avenues of investigation:
> > 
> > (1) Try the timing again with "cp1252" and "utf8" and "utf_8"
> > 
> > (2) grep "utf-8" /Objects/unicodeobject.c
> 
> Very pedagogical of you. :)  Indeed, it looks like bigger player in the
> performance difference is the fact that the code path for unicode(s,
> enc) short-circuits the codec registry for common encodings (which
> includes 'utf-8' specifically), whereas s.decode('utf-8') necessarily
> consults the codec registry.

So the next question (the answer to which may benefit all users
of .encode() and .decode()) is:

    Why does consulting the codec registry take so long,
    and can this be improved?





From dfnsonfsduifb at gmx.de  Thu Aug  6 22:15:52 2009
From: dfnsonfsduifb at gmx.de (Johannes Bauer)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 04:15:52 +0200
Subject: Python3: Using sorted(key=...)
In-Reply-To: 
References: <7e1cbuF2dfhtoU1@mid.dfncis.de>
	
Message-ID: <7e1h2oF2dlhvjU1@mid.dfncis.de>

MRAB schrieb:
> Johannes Bauer wrote:
>> Hello list,
>>
>> I'm having trouble with a incredibly simple sort of a list containing
>> ints and tuples:
>>
>> def myorder(x):
>>     if type(x) == int:
>>         return x
>>     else:
>>         return x[0]
>>
>> odata = sorted([ (a, b) for (a, b) in data["description"].items() ],
>> key=myorder)
>>
> You're sorting a list of tuples (key/value pairs), so 'myorder' is
> always given a tuple.

Oh good lord! You're right... I meant

def myorder(x):
     if type(x[0]) == int:
         return x[0]
     else:
         return x[0][0]

Thanks for your help,
Kind regards,
Johannes

-- 
"Du bist einfach nur l?cherlich! Mit solchen albernen und hohlen S?tzen
kannst du mir nicht impr?gnieren."
-- Hobbycholeriker Jens Fittig aka Wolfgang Gerber in de.sci.electronics
                             <4a6f44d0$0$12481$9b622d9e at news.freenet.de>


From michaelmossey at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 23:02:10 2009
From: michaelmossey at gmail.com (Michael Mossey)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 20:02:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: help with threads
Message-ID: <5a744bd6-6b9a-4f46-97c1-bb7fd65b8f4c@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I have a simple application that needs one thread to manage networking
in addition to the main "thread" that does the main job. It's not
working right. I know hardly anything about threads, so I was hoping
someone could point me in the right direction to research this.

Basically, I have a program that does some computational work, and
also conveys its status to a monitor program elsewhere on the network
via sockets. I wanted to use a thread to manage the networking so that
the main program can run without regard to networking (i.e. they would
be asynchronous). So the network thread loops and calls select.

My problem is that in some cases, the network thread appears to stop,
while the main thread is doing a long computation.

I'm hoping someone can give me a general idea what to read about. For
example, under what conditions does a thread stop running? Can other
threads "take priority"? Are there certain operations that block other
threads (such as disk access)?

Thanks,
Mike


From jsrat10 at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 23:13:01 2009
From: jsrat10 at gmail.com (jo)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 20:13:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: need help with an egg
Message-ID: <4d881767-ebe3-432c-bc9b-683b80626c97@y4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I am very new to python....

I created an egg on a machine.  The Python version on that  is 2.5.
Copied that egg to a machine which has Python 2.6.

unzip -t Myproj-0.1-py2.5.egg
The above command shows all the files I need

When I run the easy_install, I get the foll. error.  Is it because of
the version?  Or am I doing something wrong?  Or the way I understand
the egg works is wrong.  Can anyone please help?
If it's the version issue, does that mean I cannot use that egg on my
machine with 2.6 version?

Installed /usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/Myproj-0.1-py2.5.egg
Processing dependencies for Myproj==0.1
Searching for Myproj==0.1
Reading http://pypi.python.org/simple/Myproj/
Couldn't find index page for 'Myproj' (maybe misspelled?)
Scanning index of all packages (this may take a while)
Reading http://pypi.python.org/simple/
No local packages or download links found for Myproj==0.1
error: Could not find suitable distribution for Requirement.parse
('Myproj==0.1')

Thank you
Jo


From nate at binkert.org  Thu Aug  6 23:19:24 2009
From: nate at binkert.org (nathan binkert)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 20:19:24 -0700
Subject: Pure python implementation of string.format?
Message-ID: <217accd40908062019hb57a3d1n711316c21f9436bf@mail.gmail.com>

I was wondering if there was a pure python version of string.format
anywhere that could be used with python 2.4 and python 2.5.  Searching
has only turned up an early implementation done for pep 3101, but it
seems that it didn't get that far.

Thanks,

  Nate


From sgeorge at coe.neu.edu  Thu Aug  6 23:21:34 2009
From: sgeorge at coe.neu.edu (Sarmad George)
Date: Thu,  6 Aug 2009 23:21:34 -0400
Subject: SMTP
Message-ID: <1249615294.4a7b9dbe3a900@www.coe.neu.edu>

Good day all
I am new to the Python list
My question is here not Python as much as it is in servers

I have a code to send an email through my SMTP server - comcast Boston
fromaddrs = "******"
toaddrs = "sgeorge at coe.neu.edu"
msg = "Hello World"

server = smtplib.SMTP ('76.96.30.117', '25') #COMCAST BOSTON
server.set_debuglevel(1)
try:
    server.sendmail(fromaddrs, toaddrs, msg)
finally:
    server.quit()

Which basically sends a hello world message
Debugging gives me an indication of acceptance as seen below (and I as googled
it)
I tried the same from the University server, and I got the same results almost!
However, no emails in my Inbox when I log in - PLS can you explain the trouble?
Is it a firewall blocker?
Thanks alot


send: 'ehlo [127.0.1.1]\r\n'
reply: '250-OMTA03.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net hello [98.216.11.39], pleased
to meet you\r\n'
reply: '250-HELP\r\n'
reply: '250-AUTH LOGIN PLAIN CRAM-MD5\r\n'
reply: '250-SIZE 15728640\r\n'
reply: '250-ENHANCEDSTATUSCODES\r\n'
reply: '250-8BITMIME\r\n'
reply: '250-STARTTLS\r\n'
reply: '250 OK\r\n'
reply: retcode (250); Msg: OMTA03.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net hello
[98.216.11.39], pleased to meet you
HELP
AUTH LOGIN PLAIN CRAM-MD5
SIZE 15728640
ENHANCEDSTATUSCODES
8BITMIME
STARTTLS
OK
send: 'mail FROM: size=11\r\n'
reply: '250 2.1.0  sender ok\r\n'
reply: retcode (250); Msg: 2.1.0  sender ok
send: 'rcpt TO:\r\n'
reply: '250 2.1.5  recipient ok\r\n'
reply: retcode (250); Msg: 2.1.5  recipient ok
send: 'data\r\n'
reply: '354 enter mail, end with "." on a line by itself\r\n'
reply: retcode (354); Msg: enter mail, end with "." on a line by itself
data: (354, 'enter mail, end with "." on a line by itself')
send: 'Hello World\r\n.\r\n'
reply: '250 2.0.0 REQK1c0070qYooa8PEQKQA mail accepted for delivery\r\n'
reply: retcode (250); Msg: 2.0.0 REQK1c0070qYooa8PEQKQA mail accepted for
delivery
data: (250, '2.0.0 REQK1c0070qYooa8PEQKQA mail accepted for delivery')
send: 'quit\r\n'
reply: '221 2.0.0 OMTA03.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net comcast closing
connection\r\n'
reply: retcode (221); Msg: 2.0.0 OMTA03.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net comcast
closing connection

Sarmad Edward George
Electrical Computer Eng
Northeastern Uni
Boston MA - USA



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Thu Aug  6 23:21:38 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 00:21:38 -0300
Subject: Using Python to automate builds
References: <84d9ae10-3aee-40a8-97ac-05799da0de64@f18g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<200908050956.33995.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
	<5b8d13220908050508n32f05bep4c275cec14914588@mail.gmail.com>
	
	
	
	<1a236d86-72de-4b43-bc7b-cf0c9bdab615@u38g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

En Thu, 06 Aug 2009 14:27:56 -0300, Kosta   
escribi?:
> On Aug 6, 3:57?am, David Cournapeau  wrote:
>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 12:39 AM, Kosta wrote:
>>
>> > Setenv.bat sets up the path and other environment variables build.exe
>> > needs to compile and link (and even binplace) its utilities. ?So
>> > building itself is not the issue. ?The problem is that if I call
>> > setenv.bat from Python and then build.exe, but the modifications to
>> > the path (and other environment settings) are not seen by Python, so
>> > the attempt to build without a specified path fails.
>>
>> It sounds like you do not propagate the environment when calling
>> setenv.bat from python. There is an option to do so in
>> subprocess.Popen init method, or you can define your own environment
>
> My interpretation of the above (and your email) is that using Popen
> allows one to pass the Python environment to a child processs (in my
> case, setenv.bat).   I need the reverse, to propagate from the child
> to the parent.

In addition to just calling setenv, dump the modified environment. Parse  
the output into a dictionary that you can use as the env argument to later  
subprocess calls:

py> import subprocess
py> cmdline = '(call setenv >nul 2>&1 & set)'
py> p = subprocess.Popen(cmdline, stdout=subprocess.PIPE, shell=True)
py> env = dict(line.rstrip().split("=",1) for line in p.stdout)
py> p.wait()
0
py> env
{'TMP': 'D:\\USERDATA\\Gabriel\\CONFIG~1\\Temp', 'COMPUTERNAME': 'LEPTON',  
'HOMEDRIVE': 'D:', ...
py> env['FOO']='Salta Violeta!'
py> subprocess.call("echo %FOO%", shell=True, env=env)
Salta Violeta!
0

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From dioxide.software at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 23:22:57 2009
From: dioxide.software at gmail.com (KK)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 20:22:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: pylucene installation problem on Ubuntu 9.04
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 7, 12:38?am, Jon Clements  wrote:
> On 6 Aug, 19:49, KK  wrote:
>
>
>
> > hi all,
> > I've trying to install pylucene on my linux box from last 2 days but
> > not able to do so. first i tried to install it using apt-get like
> > this,
> > kk-laptop$ sudo apt-get install pylucene
> > and it did install python2.5, python2.5-minimal and pylucene. I must
> > mention one thing that I already had python2.6 on my box as the
> > default python i.e /usr/bin/python is linked to python2.6. Anyway s,
> > now i started the python interpreter using "python" command from cli
> > and then to make sure pylucene has been installed i tried to import
> > the module and to my surprise it said "module pylucene not found".
> > I thought I should enter the python2.6 env and do the same , so i
> > tried starting the python2.6 interpreter using "python2.6" as the
> > command and tried importing the same module and again it failed giving
> > the same irritating message.
> > ?As a final try i pulled the source code of pylucene and as per the
> > comments given there in the README file, copied the mentioned files to
> > site-packages directory of python2.6 and then tried importing the
> > module and then got the same error message saying no module name
> > pylucene is present. I'm sick of this error !
> > Can someone point me what is the issue? If it is due to multiple
> > version of python running on box, can someone tell me which one to
> > remove or someone tell me how to get the whole thing running? I'll
> > very much thankful to you guys.
>
> > Thanks,
> > KK.
>
> If you installed using apt, have you a pylucene directory under /usr/
> local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/?
>
> Also, if you run python, and import sys; print sys.path
> whats it show?
>
> Jon.

Yes I've a dirctory called dist-packages under python2.6 but that
doesn't contain anything on pylucene [it has lupyne, which i installed
day before yesterday and importing lupyne doesn't give any error msg,
but again it is dependent on pylucene]
# for python the output is :
------------------------------
kk-laptop$ python
Python 2.6.2 (release26-maint, Apr 19 2009, 01:56:41)
[GCC 4.3.3] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import sys
>>> print sys.path
['', '/usr/lib/python2.6', '/usr/lib/python2.6/plat-linux2', '/usr/lib/
python2.6/lib-tk', '/usr/lib/python2.6/lib-old', '/usr/lib/python2.6/
lib-dynload', '/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages', '/usr/lib/python2.6/
dist-packages/PIL', '/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/gst-0.10', '/var/
lib/python-support/python2.6', '/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/
gtk-2.0', '/var/lib/python-support/python2.6/gtk-2.0', '/usr/local/lib/
python2.6/dist-packages']
>>>
-------------------------------

for python2.5 this is the output:
kk-laptop$ python2.5
Python 2.5.4 (r254:67916, Apr  4 2009, 17:55:16)
[GCC 4.3.3] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import sys
>>> print sys.path
['', '/usr/lib/python2.5', '/usr/lib/python2.5/plat-linux2', '/usr/lib/
python2.5/lib-tk', '/usr/lib/python2.5/lib-dynload', '/usr/local/lib/
python2.5/site-packages', '/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages', '/usr/
lib/python2.5/site-packages/PIL', '/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/
gst-0.10', '/var/lib/python-support/python2.5', '/usr/lib/python2.5/
site-packages/gtk-2.0', '/var/lib/python-support/python2.5/gtk-2.0']
>>>
--------------------------------

and for python2.6 the output is this:
kk-laptop$ python2.6
Python 2.6.2 (release26-maint, Apr 19 2009, 01:56:41)
[GCC 4.3.3] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import sys
>>> print sys.path
['', '/usr/lib/python2.6', '/usr/lib/python2.6/plat-linux2', '/usr/lib/
python2.6/lib-tk', '/usr/lib/python2.6/lib-old', '/usr/lib/python2.6/
lib-dynload', '/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages', '/usr/lib/python2.6/
dist-packages/PIL', '/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/gst-0.10', '/var/
lib/python-support/python2.6', '/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/
gtk-2.0', '/var/lib/python-support/python2.6/gtk-2.0', '/usr/local/lib/
python2.6/dist-packages']


>From all of the above what I can see is we don't have any directory
named dist-packages under python2.5 but we've one under 2.6, then
where did all those pylucene files got installed to after i installed
it using apt-get? Any ideas?

Thanks
KK


From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Thu Aug  6 23:29:35 2009
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 20:29:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Custom namespaces
References: <0284d760$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <271ecd46-b684-49a0-b7ce-a0c0a4be519f@z28g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 2, 6:46?am, Chris Rebert  wrote:
> > Is there any way to install a custom type as a namespace?
>
> For classes/objects, yes, using metaclasses.
> See the __prepare__() method in PEP 3115:http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3115/

Here is an example of usage:

http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=236234
http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=236260
(yes, it only works for Python 3+)


From loic.domaigne at googlemail.com  Fri Aug  7 00:04:40 2009
From: loic.domaigne at googlemail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lo=EFc_Domaign=E9?=)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 21:04:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: help with threads
References: <5a744bd6-6b9a-4f46-97c1-bb7fd65b8f4c@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <949b87d5-8cff-444a-b6ba-23d49610d130@p36g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>

Hallo Michael,

> I have a simple application that needs one thread to manage networking
> in addition to the main "thread" that does the main job. It's not
> working right. I know hardly anything about threads, so I was hoping
> someone could point me in the right direction to research this.
>
> Basically, I have a program that does some computational work, and
> also conveys its status to a monitor program elsewhere on the network
> via sockets. I wanted to use a thread to manage the networking so that
> the main program can run without regard to networking (i.e. they would
> be asynchronous). So the network thread loops and calls select.
>
> My problem is that in some cases, the network thread appears to stop,
> while the main thread is doing a long computation.
>
> I'm hoping someone can give me a general idea what to read about. For
> example, under what conditions does a thread stop running? Can other
> threads "take priority"? Are there certain operations that block other
> threads (such as disk access)?

May I suggest:
http://www.dabeaz.com/python/GIL.pdf

HTH,
Lo?c
--
My Blog: http://www.domaigne.com/blog

"There is only one problem with common sense; it?s not very common."
-- Milt Bryce


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Fri Aug  7 00:21:23 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 01:21:23 -0300
Subject: SMTP
References: <1249615294.4a7b9dbe3a900@www.coe.neu.edu>
Message-ID: 

En Fri, 07 Aug 2009 00:21:34 -0300, Sarmad George   
escribi?:

> Good day all
> I am new to the Python list

Welcome!

> My question is here not Python as much as it is in servers
>
> I have a code to send an email through my SMTP server - comcast Boston
> fromaddrs = "******"
> toaddrs = "sgeorge at coe.neu.edu"
> msg = "Hello World"
>
> server = smtplib.SMTP ('76.96.30.117', '25') #COMCAST BOSTON
> server.set_debuglevel(1)
> try:
>     server.sendmail(fromaddrs, toaddrs, msg)
> finally:
>     server.quit()
>
> Which basically sends a hello world message
> Debugging gives me an indication of acceptance as seen below (and I as  
> googled
> it)
> I tried the same from the University server, and I got the same results  
> almost!
> However, no emails in my Inbox when I log in - PLS can you explain the  
> trouble?
> Is it a firewall blocker?

It's probably a spam filter in action: you claim to be someone at Yahoo  
but you're not using a Yahoo server to send mail. Try using the Yahoo smtp  
mail servers to deliver your message, or use your ISP address as the  
sender if you use their SMTP. In any case, you should log in first with  
the adequate username+password.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From http  Fri Aug  7 00:42:04 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 06 Aug 2009 21:42:04 -0700
Subject: Python3: Using sorted(key=...)
References: <7e1cbuF2dfhtoU1@mid.dfncis.de>
	
	<7e1h2oF2dlhvjU1@mid.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <7xvdl0xmjn.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Johannes Bauer  writes:
> def myorder(x):
>      if type(x[0]) == int:
>          return x[0]
>      else:
>          return x[0][0]

I used to write code like that pretty regularly, but over time I found
that it's better to stay consistent and use the same container format
(in this case, tuples) for everything, rather than having special
cases for the singleton and non-singleton case.


From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 00:54:25 2009
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 21:54:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Generate a new object each time a name is imported
References: <02853264$0$20667$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	 
	<7x63d631md.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 2, 1:18?pm, Paul Rubin  wrote:
> Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> writes:
> > >>> import sys
> > >>> sys.modules["yadda"] = A()
>
> OMG.... wow. ?I bow to you. ?But I'm not sure whether that's bowing in
> awe or in terror.

I had to play this kind of tricks on our production code, not so long
ago. Not that I am pride of it, but it was the lesser evil to cope
with a wrong design. The scenario: a large legacy code base
based on the idea of using a Python module to keep configuration
parameters. The idea is fine as long as the parameters are
immutable, but in our case the parameters could be changed.
In theory the parameters should have been set only once,
however in practice this was not guaranteed: every piece
of code could change the parameters at some moment, and things
could get "interesting" to debug.
Throwing away the configuration system was not an option, because
it would have involved changing hundreds of modules, so I set out
for a compromise: the parameters are still mutable, but they
can be changed only once. This was implemented by replacing
the module with a configuration object using custom
descriptors. Here is the code:

$ echo config.py
import sys

class WriteOnce(object):
    "WriteOnce descriptor"
    def __init__(self, default):
        self.default = self.value = default
        self.already_set = False
    def __get__(self, obj, objcls):
        return self.value
    def __set__(self, obj, value):
        if value != self.value and self.already_set:
            raise TypeError('You cannot set twice a write-once
attribute!')
        self.value = value
        self.already_set = True

class Config(object):
    "A singleton to be used as a module"
    parameter = WriteOnce(0)

sys.modules['config'] = Config()

The usage is

>>> import config
>>> config.parameter = 42
>>> config.parameter = 43
Traceback (most recent call last):
   ...
TypeError: You cannot set twice a write-once attribute!

Just to say that there are use cases where replacing modules with
objects may have sense.
Still, a better design would just have passed immutable configuration
objects around
(changing the configuration would mean to create a new object).
Unfortunately there are still a lot a people without a functional
mindset :-(


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Fri Aug  7 01:37:13 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 02:37:13 -0300
Subject: Python configuration question when python scripts are executed
	using Appweb as web server.
References: 
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

En Thu, 06 Aug 2009 12:49:30 -0300, IronyOfLife   
escribi?:
> On Aug 5, 4:18?pm, "Gabriel Genellina"  wrote:
>> En Tue, 04 Aug 2009 10:15:24 -0300, IronyOfLife 
>> escribi?:
>> > On Aug 3, 8:42?pm, "Gabriel Genellina"  wrote:
>> >> En Mon, 03 Aug 2009 11:04:07 -0300, IronyOfLife  
>>  ?
>> >> escribi?:
>>
>> >> > I have installed python 2.6.2 in windows xp professional machine. I
>> >> > have set the following environment variables -- PYTHONPATH. It  
>> points
>> >> > to following windows folders: python root folder, the lib folder  
>> and
>> >> > lib-tk folder.
>>
>> >> Why? Did you read it somewhere? Usually there is no need to set the ?
>> >> PYTHONPATH variable at all; remove it.
>>
>> > Setting PYTHONPATH environment variables is mentioned in Python docs.
>>
>> Could you provide a link please? Setting PYTHONPATH should not be
>
> Here are couple of links that discusses setting PYTHONPATH environment
> variable.
> http://docs.python.org/using/windows.html

Ouch, that document should be reworked and updated!

> http://www.daimi.au.dk/~chili/PBI/pythonpath.html

That's mostly obsolete for current versions. Since PEP370 [0] was  
implemented, a per-user private directory is already in sys.path now, so  
there is no need to play with PYTHONPATH.

> I understand your concerns regarding setting of PYTHONPATH while
> multiple versions of Python are installed on the same machine. My fix
> however does not use PYTHONPATH. The GNUTLS wrapper module for PYTHON
> loads the GNUTLS dll's and it was not able to find them. Using FileMon
> (win tool) I found out the paths that are scanned and I copied the
> dlls to one of such paths. I still do not like this fix. This is a
> temporary solution.

Note that this cannot be fixed from inside Python. When you import a  
module, the interpreter scans the directories in ITS search path  
(sys.path) looking for a matching module. Once the module is found:
- if it is a Python file, it's executed
- if it is an extension module (a .pyd file, in fact a .dll renamed) it's  
loaded using LoadLibraryEx (a Windows function), and finally its  
initialization routine is executed.

For LoadLibrary to successfully load the module, all its external  
references must be resolved. That is, Windows must locate and load all  
other DLLs that this module depends on, using its own search strategy [1],  
taking into account the PATH environment variable and many other places.

It is at this stage that you get the error: when the gnutls wrapper  
attempts to load the gnutls DLL. That search is done by Windows, not by  
Python, and PYTHONPATH has nothing to do with it.

Why different results in IIS and appweb? Note that there exist several  
search strategies, they depend on the application home directory, the  
location of the .exe, whether SetDllDirectory was called or not, whether  
the application has a manifest or not, a .local file or not... Hard to  
tell with so many variables.

> Can you explain maybe with some sample how to set .pth files? Maybe
> this will resolve my issue.

Yes, but I don't think this will actually help with your issue.

pth files are described here [2]. Suppose you want to add c:\foo\bar to  
sys.path, then write a file whatever.pth containing this single line:

c:\foo\bar

and place it on c:\your_python_installation\lib\site-packages
When the interpreter starts, it will find the .pth file, read it, and add  
any directory it finds (that actually exists) to sys.path

Note that another Python installation will use a diferent site-packages  
directory and won't find this particular .pth file, so different Python  
versions don't interfere.

---

[0] http://python.org/dev/peps/pep-0370/
[1] http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms682586(VS.85).aspx
[2] http://docs.python.org/library/site.html

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 01:41:17 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 22:41:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	
	
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	 
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro ups.com> 
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	 
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>

Paul Rubin  wrote:
> The PHP docs as I remember are sort of regular (non-publically
> editable) doc pages, each of which has a public discussion thread
> where people can post questions and answers about the topic of that
> doc page. ?I thought it worked really well. ?The main thing is that
> the good stuff from the comment section gets folded into the actual
> doc now and then.

I'd still like to see this kept out of the official docs as much as
possible, mostly for reasons of brevity & clarity. I think the
official docs should be considered definitive and not require a
hermeneutic evaluation against user comments to ensure they're still
correct...

How about a secondary site that embeds the docs and provides
commenting functionality around it? That's certainly a finitely scoped
project that those with issues about the docs could establish and
contribute to, with the possibility of it gaining official support
later once it gains traction.





From nobody at nowhere.com  Fri Aug  7 01:42:29 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 06:42:29 +0100
Subject: Help with regex
References: <39e84c94-0054-4a60-b890-65e00cafabfe@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 14:23:47 -0700, Ethan Furman wrote:

>> [0-9]+ allows any number of leading zeros, which is sometimes undesirable.
>> Using:
>> 
>> 	(0|[1-9][0-9]*)
>> 
>> is more robust.
> 
> You make a good point about possibly being undesirable, but I question 
> the assertion that your solution is /more robust/.  If the OP 
> wants/needs to match numbers even with leading zeroes your /more robust/ 
> version fails.

Well, the OP did say:

> The regex should only match the exact above.

I suppose that it depends upon the definition of "exact" ;)

More seriously: failing to produce an error when one is called for is also
a bug.

Personally, unless I knew for certain that the rest of the program would
handle leading zeros correctly (e.g. *not* interpreting the number as
octal), I would try to reject it in the parser. It's usually much easier
to determine the cause of an error raised by the parser than if you allow
bogus data to propagate deep into the program.



From mark.v.weber at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 01:42:42 2009
From: mark.v.weber at gmail.com (mark.v.weber at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 22:42:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: how to kill subprocess when Python process is killed?
Message-ID: <0feaa2a3-5b73-43e4-9b24-11f157ff6d18@l34g2000vba.googlegroups.com>

I am writing a Python program that launches a subprocess (using
Popen).
I am reading stdout of the subprocess, doing some filtering, and
writing to
stdout of the main process.

When I kill the main process (cntl-C) the subprocess keeps running.
How do I kill the subprocess too? The subprocess is likey to run a
long time.

Context:
I'm launching only one subprocess at a time, I'm filtering its stdout.
The user might decide to interrupt to try something else; the user
wants the process and all subprocesses to go away in response
to a cntl-C

I'm new to python; solution must be for Python 2.5 (windows) to help
me.

Any help and/or pointers appreciated.




From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Fri Aug  7 01:49:59 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 02:49:59 -0300
Subject: one method of COM object needs a variant type variable
References: <913F77222E913C49A057FDD7BBDEAAA30192B846@br-dc.uhul.wan>
Message-ID: 

En Thu, 06 Aug 2009 09:37:55 -0300, MICH?LEK Jan Mgr.  
 escribi?:

> How i can use this type in win32.com? One method of com object (geomedia  
> storage service) needs this variable for storage geometry of geometry  
> object (this variable will be writen into blob in DB). Is possible make  
> this variable in py??

Any compatible object may be used on the Python side, the pywin32 library  
manages the conversion automatically.

See  
http://docs.activestate.com/activepython/2.4/pywin32/html/com/win32com/HTML/PythonCOM.html

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 01:57:34 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 22:57:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: how to kill subprocess when Python process is killed?
References: <0feaa2a3-5b73-43e4-9b24-11f157ff6d18@l34g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3733148e-c03d-42ef-88f7-855c516e6564@d9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 7, 3:42?pm, "mark.v.we... at gmail.com" 
wrote:
> When I kill the main process (cntl-C) the subprocess keeps running.
> How do I kill the subprocess too? The subprocess is likey to run a
> long time.

You can register functions to run when the Python process ends by
using the atexit[1] module.

The following has been tested & works under Python 2.6 on Windows XP:

    import atexit

    def cleanup():
        print 'stop the subprocess in here'

    atexit.register(cleanup)

    while True:
        pass


[1]: http://docs.python.org/library/atexit.html


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Fri Aug  7 02:07:37 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 08:07:37 +0200
Subject: SDMX format
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4a7bc4a8$0$31337$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>

xamdam wrote:
> Does anyone know of python libs for writing SDMX XML format?
> http://www.SDMX.org/resources/SDMXML/schemas/v2_0/common

Looks like the page behind that link is broken, but in general, working
with XML formats in Python isn't hard at all when you use ElementTree or
lxml. The latter also has support for XML-Schema validation, and you might
be interested in lxml.objectify for handling data centric XML formats
(assuming that's the case here).

Stefan


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Fri Aug  7 02:23:32 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 08:23:32 +0200
Subject: How to fetch an XML file using an HTTPS query
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<49b3a7400908040638h46d4e4dcxe5cd4120e9c2c7a1@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <4a7bc863$0$31334$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>

Tycho Andersen wrote:
> Blah, forgot to include the list. When is python-list going to get Reply-To?

Hopefully never.

Stefan


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Fri Aug  7 02:40:35 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 08:40:35 +0200
Subject: How to force SAX parser to ignore encoding problems
In-Reply-To: <89c214a4-e846-4101-b0b3-8078eec15114@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <89c214a4-e846-4101-b0b3-8078eec15114@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a7bcc64$0$31330$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>

?ukasz wrote:
> I have a problem with my XML parser (created with libraries from
> xml.sax package). When parser finds a invalid character (in CDATA
> section) for example ?, throws an exception SAXParseException.
> 
> Is there any way to just ignore this kind of problem. Maybe there is a
> way to set up parser in less strict mode?
> 
> I know that I can catch this exception and determine if this is this
> kind of problem and then ignore this, but I am asking about any global
> setting.

The parser from libxml2 that lxml provides has a recovery option, i.e. it
can keep parsing regardless of errors and will drop the broken content.

However, it is *always* better to fix the input, if you get any hand on it.
Broken XML is *not* XML at all. If you can't fix the source, you can never
be sure that the data you received is in any way complete or even usable.

Stefan


From michaelmossey at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 02:40:53 2009
From: michaelmossey at gmail.com (Michael Mossey)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 23:40:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: help with threads
References: <5a744bd6-6b9a-4f46-97c1-bb7fd65b8f4c@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<949b87d5-8cff-444a-b6ba-23d49610d130@p36g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Ah yes, that explains it. Some of these long computations are done in
pure C, so I'm sure the GIL is not being released.
Thanks.


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Fri Aug  7 02:46:38 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 08:46:38 +0200
Subject: Generators through the C API
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <4a7bcdce$0$31330$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>

Duncan Booth schrieb:
> Lucas P Melo  wrote:
> 
>> Hello, I'm a total noob about the C API. Is there any way to create a 
>> generator function using the C API? I couldn't find anything like the 
>> 'yield' keyword in it.
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
> 
> You define a new type with tp_flags including Py_TPFLAGS_HAVE_ITER. 
> Anything that would be a local variable in your generator needs to become 
> an attribute in the type.
> 
> The tp_init initialization function should contain all the code up to the 
> first yield, tp_iter should return self and tp_iternext should execute code 
> up to the next yield.

This is pretty easy to do in Cython (or Pyrex), BTW. Just write a class
with an __iter__ and __next__ method, and Cython will generate the C-API
code as expected.

http://docs.cython.org/docs/special_methods.html#iterators

Note that Cython doesn't currently support the "yield" statement, but
that's certainly on the ToDo list.

http://trac.cython.org/cython_trac/ticket/83

Stefan


From kushal.kumaran+python at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 02:52:31 2009
From: kushal.kumaran+python at gmail.com (Kushal Kumaran)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 12:22:31 +0530
Subject: Web page data and urllib2.urlopen
In-Reply-To: <4A7B565E.9000508@ieee.org>
References: <469a6df4-92da-4fd1-bffd-5fefa8cdf3ed@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	
	 <4A7B565E.9000508@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <1e364c4e0908062352w33ae8914q7436743d3256e1d5@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 3:47 AM, Dave Angel wrote:
>
>
> Piet van Oostrum wrote:
>>
>> 
>>>
>>> DA> All I can guess is that it has something to do with "browser type" or
>>> DA> cookies. ?And that would make lots of sense if this was a cgi page.
>>> ?But
>>> DA> the URL doesn't look like that, as it doesn't end in pl, py, asp, or
>>> any of
>>> DA> another dozen special suffixes.
>>>

Note that the URL does not have to have any special suffix for it to
be dynamically generated.  See any page at wikipedia, for example.
Mediawiki, the software running the site, is a php application.

>>
>>
>>>
>>> DA> Any hints, anybody???
>>>
>>
>> If you look into the HTML that Firefox gets, there is a lot of
>> javascript in it.
>>
>
> But the raw page didn't have any javascript. ?So what about that original
> raw page triggered additional stuff to be loaded?

FWIW, I'm getting a ton of javascript in the page downloaded using
your code fragment.

> Is it "user agent", as someone else brought out? ?And is there somewhere I
> can read more about that aspect of things? ?I've mostly built very static
> html pages, where the server yields the same page to everybody. ?And some
> form stuff, where the ?user clicks on a 'submit" button to trigger a script
> that's not shown on the URL line.
>

-- 
kushal


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Fri Aug  7 02:53:38 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 08:53:38 +0200
Subject: Special chars with HTMLParser
In-Reply-To: <5c6941f8-c53e-4518-8ce5-83be64689307@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <5c6941f8-c53e-4518-8ce5-83be64689307@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a7bcf71$0$31330$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>

Fafounet wrote:
> I am parsing a web page with special chars such as é (which
> stands for ?).
> I know I can have the unicode character ? from unicode
> ("\xe9","iso-8859-1")
> but with those extra characters I don' t know.
> 
> I tried to implement handle_charref within HTMLParser without success.
> Furthermore, if I have the data abécd, handle_data will get "ab",
> handle_charref will get xe9 and then handle_data doesn't have the end
> of the string ("cd").

Any reason you can't use a tree based HTML parser like the one in
lxml.html? That would eliminate this kind of problem altogether, as you'd
always get a well-decoded unicode string from the tree content.

Stefan


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Aug  7 03:04:51 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 08:04:51 +0100
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
In-Reply-To: 
References: 		<2qcrk6-doj.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>	
	
Message-ID: 

Michael Str?der wrote:
> Thorsten Kampe wrote:
>> * Michael Str?der (Thu, 06 Aug 2009 18:26:09 +0200)
>>>>>> timeit.Timer("unicode('???????','utf-8')").timeit(10000000)
>>> 17.23644495010376
>>>>>> timeit.Timer("'???????'.decode('utf8')").timeit(10000000)
>>> 72.087096929550171
>>>
>>> That is significant! So the winner is:
>>>
>>> unicode('???????','utf-8')
>> Unless you are planning to write a loop that decodes "???????" one 
>> million times, these benchmarks are meaningless.
> 
> Well, I can tell you I would not have posted this here and checked it if it
> would be meaningless for me. You don't have to read and answer this thread if
> it's meaningless to you.
> 
> Ciao, Michael.
I believe that the comment "these benchmarks are meaningless" refers to 
the length of the strings being used in the tests.  Surely something 
involving thousands or millions of characters is more meaningful? Or to 
go the other way, you are unlikely to write
for c in '???????':
     u = unicode(c, 'utf-8')
     ...
Yes?

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From python at lists.wgwh.ch  Fri Aug  7 03:13:04 2009
From: python at lists.wgwh.ch (Oli Schacher)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 09:13:04 +0200
Subject: SMTP
In-Reply-To: <1249615294.4a7b9dbe3a900@www.coe.neu.edu>
References: <1249615294.4a7b9dbe3a900@www.coe.neu.edu>
Message-ID: <4A7BD400.1020404@lists.wgwh.ch>

Sarmad George schrieb:

> msg = "Hello World"

Your sending your message without any headers (no subject etc). So
probably your message lands in the recipients spam folder.

Try:
msg = """To: recipient at example.com
Subject: hello world

Hello there"""


The blank line between the headers and the body is important!

Also make sure to use a sender address that is allowed to send through
your smtp relay. yahoo.com sender is probably a bad idea. Check your
Yahoo Inbox, you might even have a bounce message there telling you that
the final mail server didn't accept your message.



From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Fri Aug  7 03:15:34 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 09:15:34 +0200
Subject: Parsing Binary Structures;
	Is there a better way / What is your way?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <200908070915.34564.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Thursday 06 August 2009 20:50:30 Martin P. Hellwig wrote:
> Thanks all for your insights and suggestions.
> It seems to me that there are a couple of ways to this bit manipulation
> and a couple of foreign modules to assist you with that.
>
> Would it be worth the while to do a PEP on this?
> Personally I think that it would be nice to have a standard module in
> Python for this but perhaps there is a good reason that there isn't
> already one.

I agree that it would be nice - I think it would be nice if something
like this is added to the struct module to give a "this is the obvious
way that python handles foreign data" module

- Hendrik




From Michalek.Jan at uhul.cz  Fri Aug  7 03:21:03 2009
From: Michalek.Jan at uhul.cz (=?iso-8859-2?Q?MICH=C1LEK_Jan_Mgr=2E?=)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 09:21:03 +0200
Subject: one method of COM object needs a variant type variable
Message-ID: <913F77222E913C49A057FDD7BBDEAAA30192B8A0@br-dc.uhul.wan>

Thanks Gabriel,
I seen this before, but I don't know, what's mean 'compatible object'. I need create object who will like as an variant type.
Je.
it looks lieke this:
...
obj=win32com.client.Dispatch('Geomedia.PointGeometry') #geometry object
gss=win32com.client.Dispatch('Geomedia.GeometryStorageService')#geometry strorage object
....
gss.GeometryToStorage(obj, out) #out must be a variant type variable
.....
oRS.Fields("Geometry").Value = out # writing blob into recordset via ADO
 
 
En Thu, 06 Aug 2009 09:37:55 -0300, MICH?LEK Jan Mgr.  

 > escribi?:



> How i can use this type in win32.com? One method of com object (geomedia  

> storage service) needs this variable for storage geometry of geometry  

> object (this variable will be writen into blob in DB). Is possible make  

> this variable in py??



Any compatible object may be used on the Python side, the pywin32 library  

manages the conversion automatically.



See  

http://docs.activestate.com/activepython/2.4/pywin32/html/com/win32com/HTML/PythonCOM.html



-- 

Gabriel Genellina
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From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Aug  7 03:25:44 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 07 Aug 2009 07:25:44 GMT
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
References: 
	
	<2qcrk6-doj.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	
	
	
Message-ID: <00055a38$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 08:04:51 +0100, Mark Lawrence wrote:

> I believe that the comment "these benchmarks are meaningless" refers to
> the length of the strings being used in the tests.  Surely something
> involving thousands or millions of characters is more meaningful? Or to
> go the other way, you are unlikely to write for c in '???????':
>      u = unicode(c, 'utf-8')
>      ...
> Yes?

There are all sorts of potential use-cases. A day or two ago, somebody 
posted a question involving tens of thousands of lines of tens of 
thousands of characters each (don't quote me, I'm going by memory). On 
the other hand, it doesn't require much imagination to think of a use-
case where there are millions of lines each of a dozen or so characters, 
and you want to process it line by line:


noun: cat
noun: dog
verb: caf?
...


As always, before optimizing, you should profile to be sure you are 
actually optimizing and not wasting your time.



-- 
Steven


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Fri Aug  7 03:38:54 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 09:38:54 +0200
Subject: help with threads
In-Reply-To: <5a744bd6-6b9a-4f46-97c1-bb7fd65b8f4c@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
References: <5a744bd6-6b9a-4f46-97c1-bb7fd65b8f4c@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <200908070938.54928.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Friday 07 August 2009 05:02:10 Michael Mossey wrote:
> Hello,

> My problem is that in some cases, the network thread appears to stop,
> while the main thread is doing a long computation.

Is this computation done in pure python or are you calling some
underlying thing in C?

I would be surprised if a pure python computation thread were to hog
the cpu  - have you been able to figure out what the computation thread is
actually doing when the hogging occurs?

> I'm hoping someone can give me a general idea what to read about. For
> example, under what conditions does a thread stop running? Can other
> threads "take priority"? Are there certain operations that block other
> threads (such as disk access)?

AFAIK python threads are all at the same level of priority, and the running
thread is interrupted every N python bytecode instructions, so what you are
experiencing should not happen.

Try to figure out, if you can, where the computation thread is spending
its time.

- Hendrik


From lists at digital.ktu.lt  Fri Aug  7 03:46:20 2009
From: lists at digital.ktu.lt (Algirdas Brazas)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 10:46:20 +0300
Subject: Pywin32 @ windows 7
Message-ID: <004a01ca1733$a9768c10$4605a8c0@btsc1>

Hi all,

Did anyone manage to get windows extensions installet on windows 7 64 bit? As 
far as I try I get only "Setup program invalid or damaged".

Al. 




From sumit.jha50 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 04:22:14 2009
From: sumit.jha50 at gmail.com (sumit)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 01:22:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: problem
Message-ID: <207a84d7-fb45-46c5-a2fb-e34c564c09f8@v37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

i want 2 hav the header files for regular expression to non
deterministin autometa
so whr should i find it?plz help


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Aug  7 04:47:55 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 10:47:55 +0200
Subject: help with threads
In-Reply-To: <5a744bd6-6b9a-4f46-97c1-bb7fd65b8f4c@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
References: <5a744bd6-6b9a-4f46-97c1-bb7fd65b8f4c@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A7BEA3B.4090000@sequans.com>

Michael Mossey wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I have a simple application that needs one thread to manage networking
> in addition to the main "thread" that does the main job. It's not
> working right. I know hardly anything about threads, so I was hoping
> someone could point me in the right direction to research this.
>
> Basically, I have a program that does some computational work, and
> also conveys its status to a monitor program elsewhere on the network
> via sockets. I wanted to use a thread to manage the networking so that
> the main program can run without regard to networking (i.e. they would
> be asynchronous). So the network thread loops and calls select.
>
> My problem is that in some cases, the network thread appears to stop,
> while the main thread is doing a long computation.
>
> I'm hoping someone can give me a general idea what to read about. For
> example, under what conditions does a thread stop running? Can other
> threads "take priority"? Are there certain operations that block other
> threads (such as disk access)?
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>   
I may be a little out of subject, anyway *if* you are writing also the 
server side program, you should really take a look at
http://docs.python.org/library/xmlrpclib.html
or
http://pyro.sourceforge.net/

... and forget about network coding :o)

To help you for your initial question, exceptions in thread are not 
propagated to the main thread, so when an unhanded exception occurs in 
your thread, it will just stop. Maybe this is what is happening.

A quick workaround is to embed all you threaded code in a try except 
clause and log the exception before re-raising it. You should only do 
that for debugging purpose.

JM


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Aug  7 04:55:51 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 10:55:51 +0200
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
In-Reply-To: <3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
References: 			<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>		<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>	
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro
	ups.com>
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>	
		<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A7BEC17.6040602@sequans.com>

alex23 wrote:
> Paul Rubin  wrote:
>   
>> The PHP docs as I remember are sort of regular (non-publically
>> editable) doc pages, each of which has a public discussion thread
>> where people can post questions and answers about the topic of that
>> doc page.  I thought it worked really well.  The main thing is that
>> the good stuff from the comment section gets folded into the actual
>> doc now and then.
>>     
>
> I'd still like to see this kept out of the official docs as much as
> possible, mostly for reasons of brevity & clarity. I think the
> official docs should be considered definitive and not require a
> hermeneutic evaluation against user comments to ensure they're still
> correct...
>
> How about a secondary site that embeds the docs and provides
> commenting functionality around it? That's certainly a finitely scoped
> project that those with issues about the docs could establish and
> contribute to, with the possibility of it gaining official support
> later once it gains traction.
>
>
>
>   
Very good Idea. I'd like to get a commented/user improved python 
documentation site with examples and I also love the current python 
documentation.

JM


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Fri Aug  7 05:14:30 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 11:14:30 +0200
Subject: Web page data and urllib2.urlopen
References: <469a6df4-92da-4fd1-bffd-5fefa8cdf3ed@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Dave Angel  (DA) wrote:

>DA> Piet van Oostrum wrote:
>>> 
>DA> If Mozilla had seen a page with this line in an appropriate place, it'd
>DA> immediately begin loading the other page, at "someotherurl"  But there's no
>DA> such line.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>DA> Next, I looked for javascript.  The Mozilla page contains lots of
>DA> javascript, but there's none in the raw page.  So I can't explain Mozilla's
>DA> differences that way.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>DA> I did notice the link to /m/Content/mobile2.css, but I don' t know any way
>DA> a CSS file could cause the content to change, just the display.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>DA> All I can guess is that it has something to do with "browser type" or
>DA> cookies.  And that would make lots of sense if this was a cgi page.  But
>DA> the URL doesn't look like that, as it doesn't end in pl, py, asp, or any of
>DA> another dozen special suffixes.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>DA> Any hints, anybody???
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> If you look into the HTML that Firefox gets, there is a lot of
>>> javascript in it.
>>> 

>DA> But the raw page didn't have any javascript.  So what about that original
>DA> raw page triggered additional stuff to be loaded?
>DA> Is it "user agent", as someone else brought out?  And is there somewhere I
>DA> can read more about that aspect of things?  I've mostly built very static
>DA> html pages, where the server yields the same page to everybody.  And some
>DA> form stuff, where the  user clicks on a 'submit" button to trigger a script
>DA> that's not shown on the URL line.

Yes, if you specify a 'normal' web browser as user agent you do get the
Javascript:

import urllib2

request = urllib2.Request('http://www.marketwatch.com/story/mondays-biggest-gaining-and-declining-stocks-2009-07-27')
request.add_header('User-Agent', 'Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.0.13) Gecko/2009073021 Firefox/3.0.13')

opener = urllib2.build_opener() 
page = opener.open(request).read()
print page

-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 05:22:50 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 02:22:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	
	
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	 
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro ups.com> 
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	 
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0067d0ed-95b7-4a97-b2f8-7f35f13c6304@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 7, 12:41?am, alex23  wrote:
...(snip)
> How about a secondary site that embeds the docs and provides
> commenting functionality around it? That's certainly a finitely scoped
> project that those with issues about the docs could establish and
> contribute to, with the possibility of it gaining official support
> later once it gains traction.

This is by far the most helpful and honest post i have ever seen by
our friend alex23. I have a new found respect for you sir, thanks

-R


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Fri Aug  7 05:33:24 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 11:33:24 +0200
Subject: problem
References: <207a84d7-fb45-46c5-a2fb-e34c564c09f8@v37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

>>>>> sumit  (s) wrote:

>s> i want 2 hav the header files for regular expression to non
>s> deterministin autometa
>s> so whr should i find it?plz help

What header files? C? You can find lots of header files by googling. But
the header files contain only the interface, not the implementation. And
conversion from regular expression to non-deterministic automaton is an
implementation matter, so the header file will not help you there. You
will need the C or C++ file.

And then, do you want Python's implementation or any implementation.
Please be specific when you ask something.

Start by googling for regex.h for general software.
Python header file is in
http://svn.python.org/view/python/trunk/Modules/sre.h and the
implementation in http://svn.python.org/view/python/trunk/Modules/_sre.c
but I don't think it goes non deterministic. For that you can better
look into the general 'grep'-like software. For example start here:
http://arglist.com/regex/ 
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From anand at esi-india.com  Fri Aug  7 05:54:06 2009
From: anand at esi-india.com (Anand K Rayudu)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 15:24:06 +0530
Subject: How to reset document  string
Message-ID: <4A7BF9BE.2080702@esi-india.com>

Dear All,

We have extended and embedded python into my our application.
We exposed few APIs to python using

 Py_InitModule("myModuleName", myMethods);
where my methods are

static PyMethodDef VistaDbMethods[] = {
   { (char *)"myAPI",_myAPICFunctionPtr ,METH_VARARGS,"usage: MyHelp)" }


Now problem is ml_doc (Document string). Most of the time the strings 
given by development team is not descriptive enough, so support team 
want to enhance these docstring on need basis and supply to customer
The idea is we will provide get latest help option from application, 
which will contact our webserver or allow user to pick new help 
document,  which will re apply the help on fly.
 From then on our script editors will show the new enhanced help.
How do I achieve this.

I tried to change ..__doc__ = "My new doc"

This failles as it is read only attribute.

Another approach could be calling  Py_InitModule("myModuleName", 
myMethods); with new help string. But It is not working,
So I am not sure what is the right way to do it

Thanks in advance for  all your kind help

Regards,
Anand





From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Fri Aug  7 06:00:42 2009
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 12:00:42 +0200
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
References: 
	
	<2qcrk6-doj.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	
	<028b1ce0$0$5185$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

* Steven D'Aprano (06 Aug 2009 19:17:30 GMT)
> On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 20:05:52 +0200, Thorsten Kampe wrote:
> > > That is significant! So the winner is:
> > > 
> > > unicode('???????','utf-8')
> > 
> > Unless you are planning to write a loop that decodes "???????" one
> > million times, these benchmarks are meaningless.
> 
> What if you're writing a loop which takes one million different lines of 
> text and decodes them once each?
> 
> >>> setup = 'L = ["abc"*(n%100) for n in xrange(1000000)]'
> >>> t1 = timeit.Timer('for line in L: line.decode("utf-8")', setup)
> >>> t2 = timeit.Timer('for line in L: unicode(line, "utf-8")', setup)
> >>> t1.timeit(number=1)
> 5.6751680374145508
> >>> t2.timeit(number=1)
> 2.6822888851165771
> 
> Seems like a pretty meaningful difference to me.

Bollocks. No one will even notice whether a code sequence runs 2.7 or 
5.7 seconds. That's completely artificial benchmarking.

Thorsten


From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Aug  7 06:09:34 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 12:09:34 +0200
Subject: Cython + setuptools not working with .pyx,only with .c-files
In-Reply-To: 
References: <7dvq5fF2e21b7U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
Message-ID: <7e2cquF2c8kj0U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

David Cournapeau schrieb:
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 7:38 PM, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>> I'm trying to build a Cython-extension as Egg.
>>
>> However, this doesn't work - I can either use distutils to build the
>> extension, creating a myextension.c-file on the way.
>>
>> If that's there, I can use setuptools to build the egg.
>>
>> But when I remove the .c-file, the .pyx-file isn't used to re-generate it.
>>
>> This is my setup.py:
>>
>> ----
>> import os
>> import glob
>> from setuptools import setup, Extension
>> #from distutils.core import setup
>> #from distutils.extension import Extension
>>
>> from Cython.Distutils import build_ext
> 
> What happens if you import setuptools *after* Cython.distutils ? My
> guess - I could be wrong - is that both Cython.distutils and
> setuptools monkey-patch distutils, and that setuptools does not "see"
> Cython.Distutils. It could also be an incompatibility between
> Cython.Distutils and setuptools (the design of distutils forces you to
> take into account the details of things modified by every distutils
> extension).

Tried that, nothing changed :(

Diez


From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Aug  7 06:12:23 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 12:12:23 +0200
Subject: need help with an egg
In-Reply-To: <4d881767-ebe3-432c-bc9b-683b80626c97@y4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
References: <4d881767-ebe3-432c-bc9b-683b80626c97@y4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7e2d07F2c8kj0U2@mid.uni-berlin.de>

jo schrieb:
> Hi,
> 
> I am very new to python....
> 
> I created an egg on a machine.  The Python version on that  is 2.5.
> Copied that egg to a machine which has Python 2.6.
> 
> unzip -t Myproj-0.1-py2.5.egg
> The above command shows all the files I need
> 
> When I run the easy_install, I get the foll. error.  Is it because of
> the version?  Or am I doing something wrong?  Or the way I understand
> the egg works is wrong.  Can anyone please help?
> If it's the version issue, does that mean I cannot use that egg on my
> machine with 2.6 version?
> 
> Installed /usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/Myproj-0.1-py2.5.egg
> Processing dependencies for Myproj==0.1
> Searching for Myproj==0.1
> Reading http://pypi.python.org/simple/Myproj/
> Couldn't find index page for 'Myproj' (maybe misspelled?)
> Scanning index of all packages (this may take a while)
> Reading http://pypi.python.org/simple/
> No local packages or download links found for Myproj==0.1
> error: Could not find suitable distribution for Requirement.parse
> ('Myproj==0.1')

Yes, eggs are (at least) python version specific. They can even be 
OS-specific.


Diez


From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Fri Aug  7 06:12:32 2009
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 12:12:32 +0200
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
References: 
	
	<2qcrk6-doj.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

* Michael Str?der (Fri, 07 Aug 2009 03:25:03 +0200)
> Thorsten Kampe wrote:
> > * Michael Str?der (Thu, 06 Aug 2009 18:26:09 +0200)
> >>>>> timeit.Timer("unicode('???????','utf-8')").timeit(10000000)
> >> 17.23644495010376
> >>>>> timeit.Timer("'???????'.decode('utf8')").timeit(10000000)
> >> 72.087096929550171
> >>
> >> That is significant! So the winner is:
> >>
> >> unicode('???????','utf-8')
> > 
> > Unless you are planning to write a loop that decodes "???????" one 
> > million times, these benchmarks are meaningless.
> 
> Well, I can tell you I would not have posted this here and checked it if it
> would be meaningless for me. You don't have to read and answer this thread if
> it's meaningless to you.

Again: if you think decoding "???????" one million times is a real world 
use case for your module then go for unicode(). Otherwise the time you 
spent benchmarking artificial cases like this is just wasted time. In 
real life people won't even notice whether an application takes one or 
two minutes to complete.

Use whatever you prefer (decode() or unicode()). If you experience 
performance bottlenecks when you're done, test whether changing decode() 
to unicode() makes a difference. /That/ is relevant.

Thorsten


From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Aug  7 06:17:50 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 12:17:50 +0200
Subject: How to reset document  string
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7e2daiF2da4u8U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Anand K Rayudu schrieb:
> Dear All,
> 
> We have extended and embedded python into my our application.
> We exposed few APIs to python using
> 
> Py_InitModule("myModuleName", myMethods);
> where my methods are
> 
> static PyMethodDef VistaDbMethods[] = {
>   { (char *)"myAPI",_myAPICFunctionPtr ,METH_VARARGS,"usage: MyHelp)" }
> 
> 
> Now problem is ml_doc (Document string). Most of the time the strings 
> given by development team is not descriptive enough, so support team 
> want to enhance these docstring on need basis and supply to customer
> The idea is we will provide get latest help option from application, 
> which will contact our webserver or allow user to pick new help 
> document,  which will re apply the help on fly.
>  From then on our script editors will show the new enhanced help.
> How do I achieve this.
> 
> I tried to change ..__doc__ = "My new doc"
> 
> This failles as it is read only attribute.
> 
> Another approach could be calling  Py_InitModule("myModuleName", 
> myMethods); with new help string. But It is not working,
> So I am not sure what is the right way to do it

To put the right docstrings into the embedded interpreter. I don't know 
about your processes, but either the support just suggests better 
strings & developers put them in there, or maybe some sort of shared 
header-file could be used that the developers use & support enhances. 
Something like this:


--- docstrings.h ---

#define VistaDbMethods__doc__ "usage: MyHelp"


And if that's enhanced over time by the support-staff, docs will get 
better. Hopefully.

Alternatives are:

  - beating your developers with a clue-stick into submission that good 
docs are important
  - write a usage-guide using e.g. sphinx and release that as add-on-docs.

Diez


From http  Fri Aug  7 06:43:48 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 07 Aug 2009 03:43:48 -0700
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	
	
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro
	ups.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xk51fgazf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

alex23  writes:
> I'd still like to see this kept out of the official docs as much as
> possible, mostly for reasons of brevity & clarity. I think the
> official docs should be considered definitive and not require a
> hermeneutic evaluation against user comments to ensure they're still
> correct...

Such evaluation would only do them good.  The official docs are full
of errors and omissions, which is why we have this thread going on
here in the newsgroup.


From dioxide.software at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 07:09:25 2009
From: dioxide.software at gmail.com (KK)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 04:09:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: pylucene installation problem on Ubuntu 9.04
References: 
	 
	
Message-ID: 

I tried doing something silly.
I went to the directory "/usr/local/lib/python2.6/site-packages" and
then tried to compile/run the file called PyLucene.py the way we
compile/run python scripts, then from there i started the python
interpreter by typing python ( which is actually python2.6), then i
tried to import that module, [un]fortunately it din't give that error
message but something else, you can see below:

kk-laptop:/usr/local/lib/python2.6/site-packages$ python
Python 2.6.2 (release26-maint, Apr 19 2009, 01:56:41)
[GCC 4.3.3] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> indexDir = '/opt/lucene/index'
>>> import PyLucene
WARNING: could not properly read security provider files:
         file:///usr/local/gcc-3.4.6/lib/security/libgcj.security
         file:///usr/local/gcc-3.4.6/lib/security/classpath.security
         Falling back to standard GNU security provider
>>>

then tried to copy and paste my sample code for indexing data to
lucene, this way:


>>> writer = IndexWriter(indexDir, StandardAnalyzer(), True)
>>> title = "this is sample page title"
>>> content = "This is sample page content for testing pylucene tool"
>>>
>>> doc = Document()
>>> doc.add(Field("title", title, Field.Store.YES, Field.Index.TOKENIZED))
>>> doc.add(Field("content", content, Field.Store.YES, Field.Index.TOKENIZED))
>>> writer.addDocument(doc)
>>> writer.optimize()
>>>

----------------------------
and surprisingly it din't give any other error. to crosscheck things i
went to the lucene index directory and fired LUKE and luckily found
that doc being indexed by lucene, even i tried searching for some
words and found they are working fine. So Pylucene seems to be working
partially, in my case. But I think python is not able to load the
PyLucene module (btw, i din't see any __init__ scripts which, i guess,
are used for bootstrapping external modules, right?). Then what is the
fix for this? do we have to add some __init__ scripts to make python
load PyLucene module when it starts? do i sound silly? What is the
best/easiest way to get this working? I've spend quite a lot of time
jsut to make PyLucene running but to no avail.
BTW, I tried to start the python interpreter from other locations and
tried imporitn this PyLucene module but got the same irritating error
message saying "module not found".
Also trying to run my sample indexer from cli using the normal way[kk-
laptop$ python indexer.py] gave the same error message.

Any help/advice is highly appreciated.
Thanks,
KK

On Aug 7, 8:22?am, KK  wrote:
> On Aug 7, 12:38?am, Jon Clements  wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 6 Aug, 19:49, KK  wrote:
>
> > > hi all,
> > > I've trying to install pylucene on my linux box from last 2 days but
> > > not able to do so. first i tried to install it using apt-get like
> > > this,
> > > kk-laptop$ sudo apt-get install pylucene
> > > and it did install python2.5, python2.5-minimal and pylucene. I must
> > > mention one thing that I already had python2.6 on my box as the
> > > default python i.e /usr/bin/python is linked to python2.6. Anyway s,
> > > now i started the python interpreter using "python" command from cli
> > > and then to make sure pylucene has been installed i tried to import
> > > the module and to my surprise it said "module pylucene not found".
> > > I thought I should enter the python2.6 env and do the same , so i
> > > tried starting the python2.6 interpreter using "python2.6" as the
> > > command and tried importing the same module and again it failed giving
> > > the same irritating message.
> > > ?As a final try i pulled the source code of pylucene and as per the
> > > comments given there in the README file, copied the mentioned files to
> > > site-packages directory of python2.6 and then tried importing the
> > > module and then got the same error message saying no module name
> > > pylucene is present. I'm sick of this error !
> > > Can someone point me what is the issue? If it is due to multiple
> > > version of python running on box, can someone tell me which one to
> > > remove or someone tell me how to get the whole thing running? I'll
> > > very much thankful to you guys.
>
> > > Thanks,
> > > KK.
>
> > If you installed using apt, have you a pylucene directory under /usr/
> > local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/?
>
> > Also, if you run python, and import sys; print sys.path
> > whats it show?
>
> > Jon.
>
> Yes I've a dirctory called dist-packages under python2.6 but that
> doesn't contain anything on pylucene [it has lupyne, which i installed
> day before yesterday and importing lupyne doesn't give any error msg,
> but again it is dependent on pylucene]
> # for python the output is :
> ------------------------------
> kk-laptop$ python
> Python 2.6.2 (release26-maint, Apr 19 2009, 01:56:41)
> [GCC 4.3.3] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.>>> import sys
> >>> print sys.path
>
> ['', '/usr/lib/python2.6', '/usr/lib/python2.6/plat-linux2', '/usr/lib/
> python2.6/lib-tk', '/usr/lib/python2.6/lib-old', '/usr/lib/python2.6/
> lib-dynload', '/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages', '/usr/lib/python2.6/
> dist-packages/PIL', '/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/gst-0.10', '/var/
> lib/python-support/python2.6', '/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/
> gtk-2.0', '/var/lib/python-support/python2.6/gtk-2.0', '/usr/local/lib/
> python2.6/dist-packages']
>
> -------------------------------
>
> for python2.5 this is the output:
> kk-laptop$ python2.5
> Python 2.5.4 (r254:67916, Apr ?4 2009, 17:55:16)
> [GCC 4.3.3] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.>>> import sys
> >>> print sys.path
>
> ['', '/usr/lib/python2.5', '/usr/lib/python2.5/plat-linux2', '/usr/lib/
> python2.5/lib-tk', '/usr/lib/python2.5/lib-dynload', '/usr/local/lib/
> python2.5/site-packages', '/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages', '/usr/
> lib/python2.5/site-packages/PIL', '/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/
> gst-0.10', '/var/lib/python-support/python2.5', '/usr/lib/python2.5/
> site-packages/gtk-2.0', '/var/lib/python-support/python2.5/gtk-2.0']
>
> --------------------------------
>
> and for python2.6 the output is this:
> kk-laptop$ python2.6
> Python 2.6.2 (release26-maint, Apr 19 2009, 01:56:41)
> [GCC 4.3.3] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.>>> import sys
> >>> print sys.path
>
> ['', '/usr/lib/python2.6', '/usr/lib/python2.6/plat-linux2', '/usr/lib/
> python2.6/lib-tk', '/usr/lib/python2.6/lib-old', '/usr/lib/python2.6/
> lib-dynload', '/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages', '/usr/lib/python2.6/
> dist-packages/PIL', '/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/gst-0.10', '/var/
> lib/python-support/python2.6', '/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/
> gtk-2.0', '/var/lib/python-support/python2.6/gtk-2.0', '/usr/local/lib/
> python2.6/dist-packages']
>
> From all of the above what I can see is we don't have any directory
> named dist-packages under python2.5 but we've one under 2.6, then
> where did all those pylucene files got installed to after i installed
> it using apt-get? Any ideas?
>
> Thanks
> KK



From andrew at acooke.org  Fri Aug  7 07:29:13 2009
From: andrew at acooke.org (andrew cooke)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 04:29:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Parsing Binary Structures; Is there a better way / What is your 
	way?
References: 
Message-ID: <4c436221-7f6e-43ca-9ece-6b05afac540a@g1g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 5, 10:46?am, "Martin P. Hellwig" 
wrote:
> Hi List,
>
> On several occasions I have needed (and build) a parser that reads a
> binary piece of data with custom structure. For example (bogus one):
>
> BE
> +---------+---------+-------------+-------------+------+--------+
> | Version | Command | Instruction | Data Length | Data | Filler |
> +---------+---------+-------------+-------------+------+--------+
> Version: 6 bits
> Command: 4 bits
> Instruction: 5 bits
> Data Length: 5 bits
> Data: 0-31 bits
> Filler: filling 0 bits to make the packet dividable by 8

hi,

sorry i'm a bit late here, but lepl does exactly this.  also, as you
asked for in another post, the BitString class allows arbitrary
indexing into a sequence of bits.  and because it's part of a
recursive descent parser you can match "anything" (lepl will handle -
although less efficiently - left recursive and ambiguous grammars).

see the example at http://www.acooke.org/lepl/binary.html#matching
which constructs an ethernet frame and then parses it, extracting the
source and destination addresses.

feel free to email me with more questions.

disclaimer: this is quite new and i don't know of anyone that actually
uses it; it is also Python3 only (because it uses bytes()).

andrew




From cournape at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 07:35:24 2009
From: cournape at gmail.com (David Cournapeau)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 20:35:24 +0900
Subject: Cython + setuptools not working with .pyx,only with .c-files
In-Reply-To: <7e2cquF2c8kj0U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: <7dvq5fF2e21b7U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	<7e2cquF2c8kj0U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <5b8d13220908070435i2ee17e9cgb183ee11791d401b@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 7:09 PM, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

>
> Tried that, nothing changed :(

Then you will have to modify Cython.Distutils to be aware of
setuptools, I think (and soon Distribute... ).

David


From garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk  Fri Aug  7 07:49:05 2009
From: garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk (garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 11:49:05 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
References: 
	
	<2qcrk6-doj.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	
	<028b1ce0$0$5185$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Thorsten Kampe  wrote:
> * Steven D'Aprano (06 Aug 2009 19:17:30 GMT)
>> What if you're writing a loop which takes one million different lines of 
>> text and decodes them once each?
>> 
>> >>> setup = 'L = ["abc"*(n%100) for n in xrange(1000000)]'
>> >>> t1 = timeit.Timer('for line in L: line.decode("utf-8")', setup)
>> >>> t2 = timeit.Timer('for line in L: unicode(line, "utf-8")', setup)
>> >>> t1.timeit(number=1)
>> 5.6751680374145508
>> >>> t2.timeit(number=1)
>> 2.6822888851165771
>> 
>> Seems like a pretty meaningful difference to me.
> 
> Bollocks. No one will even notice whether a code sequence runs 2.7 or 
> 5.7 seconds. That's completely artificial benchmarking.
>

For a real-life example, I have often a file with one word per line, and
I run python scripts to apply some (sometimes fairy trivial)
transformation over it. REAL example, reading lines with word, lemma,
tag separated by tabs from stdin and writing word into stdout, unless it
starts with '<' (~6e5 lines, python2.5, user times, warm cache, I hope
the comments are self-explanatory)

no unicode
user    0m2.380s

decode('utf-8'), encode('utf-8')
user    0m3.560s

sys.stdout = codecs.getwriter('utf-8')(sys.stdout);sys.stdin = codecs.getreader('utf-8')(sys.stdin)
user    0m6.180s

unicode(line, 'utf8'), encode('utf-8')
user    0m3.820s

unicode(line, 'utf-8'), encode('utf-8')
user    0m2.880sa

python3.1
user    0m1.560s

Since I have something like 18 million words in my currenct project (and
 > 600 million overall) and I often tweak some parameters and re-run the
 > transformations, the differences are pretty significant.

Personally, I have been surprised by:
1) bad performance of the codecs wrapper (I expected it to be on par with 
   unicode(x,'utf-8'), mayble slightly better due to less function calls
2) good performance of python3.1 (utf-8 locale)


-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------
| Radovan Garab?k http://kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk/~garabik/ |
| __..--^^^--..__    garabik @ kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk     |
 -----------------------------------------------------------
Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus.
Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!


From dmitrey.kroshko at scipy.org  Fri Aug  7 08:00:40 2009
From: dmitrey.kroshko at scipy.org (dmitrey)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 05:00:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: how to overload operator "<  <" (a < x < b)?
Message-ID: <53eb4291-9a78-489a-9a5d-396ec8a9c2af@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>

hi all,
is it possible to overload operator "<  <"? (And other like this one,
eg "<=  <=", ">  >", ">=  >=")
Any URL/example?
Thank you in advance, D.


From davea at ieee.org  Fri Aug  7 08:15:11 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 08:15:11 -0400
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
In-Reply-To: <3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
References: 			<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>		<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>	
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro
	ups.com>
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>	
		<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A7C1ACF.80505@ieee.org>

alex23 wrote:
> Paul Rubin  wrote:
>   
>> The PHP docs as I remember are sort of regular (non-publically
>> editable) doc pages, each of which has a public discussion thread
>> where people can post questions and answers about the topic of that
>> doc page.  I thought it worked really well.  The main thing is that
>> the good stuff from the comment section gets folded into the actual
>> doc now and then.
>>     
>
> I'd still like to see this kept out of the official docs as much as
> possible, mostly for reasons of brevity & clarity. I think the
> official docs should be considered definitive and not require a
> hermeneutic evaluation against user comments to ensure they're still
> correct...
>
> How about a secondary site that embeds the docs and provides
> commenting functionality around it? That's certainly a finitely scoped
> project that those with issues about the docs could establish and
> contribute to, with the possibility of it gaining official support
> later once it gains traction.
>
>
>   
I share your concern about unmonitored comments.  However, it seems a 
useful possibility would be for the "official" pages to each have 
specially-marked links that possibly lead to such user comments.  
Clearly they'd have to marked carefully, so that naive users don't 
confuse the two.  But otherwise, it feels like a good idea.

In my case, I usually access the docs via the Windows help file.  So 
it'd be quite easy for me to recognize that once I've gotten to a 
browser page, I'm not in Kansas any more.  But that could be also 
accomplished by having a very different stylesheet for the user comments 
page.

DaveA



From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Aug  7 08:16:22 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 14:16:22 +0200
Subject: how to overload operator "<  <" (a < x < b)?
In-Reply-To: <53eb4291-9a78-489a-9a5d-396ec8a9c2af@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
References: <53eb4291-9a78-489a-9a5d-396ec8a9c2af@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7e2k8mF2djd57U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

dmitrey schrieb:
> hi all,
> is it possible to overload operator "<  <"? (And other like this one,
> eg "<=  <=", ">  >", ">=  >=")
> Any URL/example?
> Thank you in advance, D.

http://docs.python.org/reference/datamodel.html#object.__lt__

Diez


From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Aug  7 08:21:31 2009
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 14:21:31 +0200
Subject: how to overload operator "<  <" (a < x < b)?
References: <53eb4291-9a78-489a-9a5d-396ec8a9c2af@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

dmitrey wrote:

> is it possible to overload operator "<  <"? (And other like this one,
> eg "<=  <=", ">  >", ">=  >=")

No. 

a < x < b 

is a shortcut for 

a < x and x < b

where x is of course evaluated only once.

Peter




From durumdara at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 08:31:10 2009
From: durumdara at gmail.com (durumdara)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 05:31:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bug or feature: double strings as one
Message-ID: 

Hi!

I found an interesting thing in Python.
Today one of my "def"s got wrong result.

When I checked the code I saw that I miss a "," from the list.

l = ['?' '?']

Interesting, that Python handle them as one string.

print ['?' '?']
['\xf3\xd3']

I wanna ask that is a bug or is it a feature?

In other languages, like Delphi (Pascal), Javascript, SQL, etc., I
must concatenate the strings with some sign, like "+" or "||".

This technic is avoid the mistyping, like today. But in python I can
miss the concat sign, and I got wrong result...

Thanks for your help and for your answer:
   dd




From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 08:33:25 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 05:33:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to reset document string
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 7, 2:54?am, Anand K Rayudu  wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> We have extended and embedded python into my our application.
> We exposed few APIs to python using
>
> ?Py_InitModule("myModuleName", myMethods);
> where my methods are
>
> static PyMethodDef VistaDbMethods[] = {
> ? ?{ (char *)"myAPI",_myAPICFunctionPtr ,METH_VARARGS,"usage: MyHelp)" }
>
> Now problem is ml_doc (Document string). Most of the time the strings
> given by development team is not descriptive enough, so support team
> want to enhance these docstring on need basis and supply to customer
> The idea is we will provide get latest help option from application,
> which will contact our webserver or allow user to pick new help
> document, ?which will re apply the help on fly.
> ?From then on our script editors will show the new enhanced help.
> How do I achieve this.

Sounds very cool.  I have a few ideas.

1. Since you say you are embedding Python in your application, the
most direct way might be to modify the Python interpreter to allow the
__doc__ attribute to be changed.  You'd have to modify the PyCFunction
type (defined in methodobject.h and methodobject.c) to allow
overriding the compiled-in doc field.

2. Instead of replacing the __doc__ attribute of the function, just
replace the whole function with a wrapper.  So, for instance, if your
application decides to update the docstring for myModuleName.myAPI(),
instead of running code like this:

    myModuleName.myAPI.__doc__ = 'new docstring'

run code like this:

    def create_wrapper(func,docstring):
        def wrapper(*args):
            return func(*args)
        wrapper.__doc__ = doc
        return wrapper
    myModuleName.myAPI = create_wrapper(
                 myModuleName.myAPI,'new docstring')

So now myApi is a Python function with the new docstring that calls
the old function.  (Note: if you are concerned with efficiency, it's
possible to write a wrapper in C that has very little overhead.)

This approach has minor disadvantages (such as if any code write from
myModuleName import myAPI--it won't see the new version) but it may be
the easiest approach.

3. Instead of customizing the __doc__ attribute, store any custom
docstrings in a dictionary keyed by the function.

    custom_doc[myModuleName.myApi] = 'new docstring'

Your script editor, when looking for documentation, will first search
in this custom area to see if the docstring has been overridden; if
so, use that; if not, use the docstring.  Something like this:

    def documentation_to_use_in_script_editor(func):
        try:
            return custom_doc[func]
        except KeyError:
            return func.__doc__

That has the negative of the special docstring not being visible at an
interactive prompt.


I have given you some fairly vague answers, hopefully that'll give you
some idea.  It sounds like you have an ambitious project, suggesting
that you are probably good enough to implement the suggestions.


Carl Banks


From davea at ieee.org  Fri Aug  7 08:34:00 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 08:34:00 -0400
Subject: Web page data and urllib2.urlopen
In-Reply-To: 
References: <469a6df4-92da-4fd1-bffd-5fefa8cdf3ed@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>			
	
Message-ID: <4A7C1F38.8010701@ieee.org>


Piet van Oostrum wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>             
> 
>> DA> But the raw page didn't have any javascript.  So what about that original
>> DA> raw page triggered additional stuff to be loaded?
>> DA> Is it "user agent", as someone else brought out?  And is there somewhere I
>> DA> can read more about that aspect of things?  I've mostly built very static
>> DA> html pages, where the server yields the same page to everybody.  And some
>> DA> form stuff, where the  user clicks on a 'submit" button to trigger a script
>> DA> that's not shown on the URL line.
>>     
>
> Yes, if you specify a 'normal' web browser as user agent you do get the
> Javascript:
>
> import urllib2
>
> request = urllib2.Request('http://www.marketwatch.com/story/mondays-biggest-gaining-and-declining-stocks-2009-07-27')
> request.add_header('User-Agent', 'Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.0.13) Gecko/2009073021 Firefox/3.0.13')
>
> opener = urllib2.build_opener() 
> page = opener.open(request).read()
> print page
>
>   
Thanks much.  That's a key I didn't understand.

DaveA


From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Aug  7 08:37:48 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 14:37:48 +0200
Subject: Bug or feature: double strings as one
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7e2lgtF2bpusmU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

durumdara schrieb:
> Hi!
> 
> I found an interesting thing in Python.
> Today one of my "def"s got wrong result.
> 
> When I checked the code I saw that I miss a "," from the list.
> 
> l = ['?' '?']
> 
> Interesting, that Python handle them as one string.
> 
> print ['?' '?']
> ['\xf3\xd3']
> 
> I wanna ask that is a bug or is it a feature?
> 
> In other languages, like Delphi (Pascal), Javascript, SQL, etc., I
> must concatenate the strings with some sign, like "+" or "||".
> 
> This technic is avoid the mistyping, like today. But in python I can
> miss the concat sign, and I got wrong result...

It's a feature. It is sometimes used in cases where you want to split a 
longer text into several lines, but without introducing newlines.

like this (the parentheses are there for the parser not to puke):


foo = ("foobarbaz"
        "padamm")

It has the potential to produce errors as you have seen them, though.

Diez


From s.selvamsiva at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 08:40:49 2009
From: s.selvamsiva at gmail.com (S.Selvam)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 18:10:49 +0530
Subject: pulldom extracting records from recordset
Message-ID: 

Hi all,

I am using pulldom to handle large xml files.It works fine, but i do not
know how to store a particular set of  records(as xml) out of the recordset.
-----------------code---------
from xml.dom import pulldom
hamlet_file = open("input_xml/inp_test.xml")
events = pulldom.parse(hamlet_file)
for (event, node) in events:
  if event == pulldom.START_ELEMENT:
    if node.tagName == "Record":
     events.expandNode(node)
     print node  #this does not work as it is a object
------------------------------

Whenever the node name is a Record,i process it. I want to store the all the
nodes meeting my requirement.
  For eg,i need output as below,

         
            
                 hi
           
           
            ---
           
        

         
            
                 hello
           .
           .
Where input xml might contain 'n' number of Records.
I have been struggling to figure it out.I would be happy to get a solution
for this.

-- 
Yours,
S.Selvam
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From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Aug  7 08:41:36 2009
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 14:41:36 +0200
Subject: Bug or feature: double strings as one
References: 
Message-ID: 

durumdara wrote:

> I found an interesting thing in Python.
> Today one of my "def"s got wrong result.
> 
> When I checked the code I saw that I miss a "," from the list.
> 
> l = ['?' '?']
> 
> Interesting, that Python handle them as one string.
> 
> print ['?' '?']
> ['\xf3\xd3']
> 
> I wanna ask that is a bug or is it a feature?

Feature:

http://docs.python.org/reference/lexical_analysis.html#string-literal-concatenation

Peter



From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Fri Aug  7 08:50:52 2009
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 08:50:52 -0400
Subject: how to overload operator "< <" (a < x < b)?
In-Reply-To: <53eb4291-9a78-489a-9a5d-396ec8a9c2af@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
References: <53eb4291-9a78-489a-9a5d-396ec8a9c2af@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 8:00 AM, dmitrey wrote:
> hi all,
> is it possible to overload operator "< ?<"? (And other like this one,
> eg "<= ?<=", "> ?>", ">= ?>=")
> Any URL/example?
> Thank you in advance, D.

That isn't an operator at all. Python does not support compound
comparisons like that. You have to do "a > b and b > c".
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Fri Aug  7 08:54:31 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 14:54:31 +0200
Subject: Web page data and urllib2.urlopen
References: <469a6df4-92da-4fd1-bffd-5fefa8cdf3ed@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Dave Angel  (DA) wrote:

>DA> Piet van Oostrum wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>> 
>DA> But the raw page didn't have any javascript.  So what about that original
>DA> raw page triggered additional stuff to be loaded?
>DA> Is it "user agent", as someone else brought out?  And is there somewhere I
>DA> can read more about that aspect of things?  I've mostly built very static
>DA> html pages, where the server yields the same page to everybody.  And some
>DA> form stuff, where the  user clicks on a 'submit" button to trigger a script
>DA> that's not shown on the URL line.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> Yes, if you specify a 'normal' web browser as user agent you do get the
>>> Javascript:
>>> 
>>> import urllib2
>>> 
>>> request = urllib2.Request('http://www.marketwatch.com/story/mondays-biggest-gaining-and-declining-stocks-2009-07-27')
>>> request.add_header('User-Agent', 'Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.0.13) Gecko/2009073021 Firefox/3.0.13')
>>> 
>>> opener = urllib2.build_opener() page = opener.open(request).read()
>>> print page
>>> 
>>> 
>DA> Thanks much.  That's a key I didn't understand.

You can even specify the headers in the Request constructor:


url = 'http://www.marketwatch.com/story/mondays-biggest-gaining-and-declining-stocks-2009-07-27'
hdr = {'User-Agent': 'Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.0.13) Gecko/2009073021 Firefox/3.0.13'}
request = urllib2.Request(url = url, headers = hdr)

-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From s.selvamsiva at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 09:04:01 2009
From: s.selvamsiva at gmail.com (S.Selvam)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 18:34:01 +0530
Subject: pulldom extracting records from recordset
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 6:10 PM, S.Selvam  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I am using pulldom to handle large xml files.It works fine, but i do not
> know how to store a particular set of  records(as xml) out of the recordset.
> -----------------code---------
> from xml.dom import pulldom
> hamlet_file = open("input_xml/inp_test.xml")
> events = pulldom.parse(hamlet_file)
> for (event, node) in events:
>   if event == pulldom.START_ELEMENT:
>     if node.tagName == "Record":
>      events.expandNode(node)
>      print node  #this does not work as it is a object
> ------------------------------
>
> Whenever the node name is a Record,i process it. I want to store the all
> the nodes meeting my requirement.
>   For eg,i need output as below,
>
>          
>             
>                  hi
>            
>            
>             ---
>            
>         
>
>          
>             
>                  hello
>            .
>            .
> Where input xml might contain 'n' number of Records.
> I have been struggling to figure it out.I would be happy to get a solution
> for this.
>
> --
> Yours,
> S.Selvam
>

Hi all,
   I just found the solution,
         *node.toprettyxml()*
     has done it.



-- 
Yours,
S.Selvam
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From piet at cs.uu.nl  Fri Aug  7 09:09:29 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 15:09:29 +0200
Subject: how to kill subprocess when Python process is killed?
References: <0feaa2a3-5b73-43e4-9b24-11f157ff6d18@l34g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

>>>>> "mark.v.weber at gmail.com"  (M) wrote:

>M> I am writing a Python program that launches a subprocess (using
>M> Popen).
>M> I am reading stdout of the subprocess, doing some filtering, and
>M> writing to
>M> stdout of the main process.

>M> When I kill the main process (cntl-C) the subprocess keeps running.
>M> How do I kill the subprocess too? The subprocess is likey to run a
>M> long time.

>M> Context:
>M> I'm launching only one subprocess at a time, I'm filtering its stdout.
>M> The user might decide to interrupt to try something else; the user
>M> wants the process and all subprocesses to go away in response
>M> to a cntl-C

>M> I'm new to python; solution must be for Python 2.5 (windows) to help
>M> me.

>M> Any help and/or pointers appreciated.

When the parent dies, the child should die when it's writing on the
broken pipe. At least that's how it works in Unix systems. I don't know
about Windows, however.

To let the dying be fast you should make sure that stdout in the child
is unbuffered.

-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Fri Aug  7 09:10:29 2009
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 15:10:29 +0200
Subject: Is python buffer overflow proof?
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

* Neil Hodgson (Tue, 04 Aug 2009 13:32:55 GMT)
> Thorsten Kampe:
> > You cannot create "your own" buffer overflow in Python as you can in 
C 
> > and C++ but your code could still be vulnerable if the underlying Python 
> > construct is written in C.
> 
>    Python's standard library does now include unsafe constructs.

I don't doubt that. If Python contains a buffer overflow vulnerability 
your code will also be susceptible to that. Please read the link I 
provided as an example.

Thorsten


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 09:48:20 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 06:48:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: how to overload operator "< <" (a < x < b)?
References: <53eb4291-9a78-489a-9a5d-396ec8a9c2af@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 7, 10:50?pm, Benjamin Kaplan  wrote:
> That isn't an operator at all. Python does not support compound
> comparisons like that. You have to do "a > b and b > c".

You know, it costs nothing to open up a python interpreter and check
your certainty:

>>> x = 10
>>> 1 < x < 20
True

This is a _very_ common pattern.

>>> class X(object):
...   def __lt__(self, other):
...     print 'in lt'
...     return True
...   def __gt__(self, other):
...     print 'in gt'
...     return True
...
>>> x = X()
>>> 1 < x < 20
in gt
in lt
True
>>> 20 < x < 1
in gt
in lt
True

dmitrey: Diez' advice was the best you received.


From kdawg44 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 09:52:16 2009
From: kdawg44 at gmail.com (Kevin Holleran)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 09:52:16 -0400
Subject: Changing Remote Registry
Message-ID: <5caea3690908070652v2ccb3ac8s4336266afe71dcb5@mail.gmail.com>

Good morning,

I fear the answer to this is that I just cannot do this....

I wrote a python script that goes out to a bunch of remote machines and
queries the registry for some values.  Effectively, there have been some
software upgrades that have been done as the need arose but we need to do
them across the organization now.  There are three, and the script checks
all three and returns the values.  One of these just needs to be a registry
change as it is a client server application that the server was upgraded and
the clients need a change to a registry value to work.

Long story short, I am using _winreg to do this.

hKey = _winreg.OpenKey (keyPath, path, 0, _winreg.KEY_SET_VALUE)
value,type = _winreg.QueryValueEx(hKey, item)
if (value == wrongValue):
       _winreg.SetValue(hKey,'',_winreg.REG_SZ,correctValue)


When I do this I receive the error:

_winreg.SetValue WindowsError: [Error 5] Access Denied


I am running this from my machine as a domain admin, connecting to the
remote machine which is also on the domain.
I am connecting to the remote registry with:

keyPath = _winreg.ConnectRegistry(r"\\" +
ipAddress,_winreg.HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE)


Thanks for any help.

--
Kevin Holleran
Master of Science, Computer Information Systems
Grand Valley State University
Master of Business Administration
Western Michigan University
Completion December 2009
CCNA, ISA, MCSA, MCDST, MCP

"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a
habit." - Aristotle

"A man flattened by an opponent can get up again. A man flattened by
conformity stays down for good. " - Thomas J. Watson
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From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 09:53:22 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 06:53:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
References: 
	 
	<2qcrk6-doj.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	 
	<028b1ce0$0$5185$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <556b00a3-bbbf-4076-a300-d20839a313c8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

Thorsten Kampe  wrote:
> Bollocks. No one will even notice whether a code sequence runs 2.7 or
> 5.7 seconds. That's completely artificial benchmarking.

But that's not what you first claimed:

> I don't think any measurable speed increase will be
> noticeable between those two.

But please, keep changing your argument so you don't have to admit you
were wrong.


From stargaming at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 09:59:45 2009
From: stargaming at gmail.com (Robert Lehmann)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 13:59:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: how to overload operator "< <" (a < x < b)?
References: <53eb4291-9a78-489a-9a5d-396ec8a9c2af@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 08:50:52 -0400, Benjamin Kaplan wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 8:00 AM, dmitrey
> wrote:
>> hi all,
>> is it possible to overload operator "< ?<"? (And other like this one,
>> eg "<= ?<=", "> ?>", ">= ?>=")
>> Any URL/example?
>> Thank you in advance, D.
> 
> That isn't an operator at all. Python does not support compound
> comparisons like that. You have to do "a > b and b > c".

Python actually allows you to chain comparison operators, automatically 
unpacking ``a > b > c`` to ``a > b and b > c``::

>>> class C(object):
...   def __lt__(self, other):
...     print self, "LESS-THAN", other
...     return True
... 
>>> a = C(); b = C(); x = C()
>>> a < x < b
<__main__.C object...> LESS-THAN <__main__.C object...>
<__main__.C object...> LESS-THAN <__main__.C object...>
True

>>> x = 42
>>> 40 < x < 50 # between 40 and 50
True
>>> 50 < x < 60 # between 50 and 60
False
>>> 1 == True < 2 == 2.0 < 3 < 4 != 5 > 0 # yikes, unreadable! but legal.
True
>>> # same as: (1 == True) and (True < 2) and (2 == 2.0) ...

HTH,

-- 
Robert "Stargaming" Lehmann



From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 10:05:20 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 07:05:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	
	
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	 
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro ups.com> 
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	 
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<7xk51fgazf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: 

Paul Rubin  wrote:
> Such evaluation would only do them good. ?The official docs are full
> of errors and omissions, which is why we have this thread going on
> here in the newsgroup.

And there is a process for reporting and correcting such errors and
omissions, which is what I pointed out in my post.


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Fri Aug  7 10:08:59 2009
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 07:08:59 -0700
Subject: Problem in installing PyGreSQL
In-Reply-To: 
References: <7aa29e790908032045p3b52a633m8d0e366a0f648b@mail.gmail.com>	<7f0b4d2b1d5bd3f3057ead3b029059b9@preisshare.net>	<20090804084856.b825967a.darcy@druid.net>		<20090804095547.a5274e22.darcy@druid.net>		<7aa29e790908060330x67d900a9rfb4677eaf0eddeb@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Thu, 6 Aug 2009 16:00:15 +0530, "Thangappan.M"
>  declaimed the following in
> gmane.comp.python.general:
>>   File "./setup.py", line 219, in finalize_options
>>     except (Warning, w):
>> NameError: global name 'w' is not defined
>>
>> What would be the solution?
>> Otherwise can you tell how to install DB-API in debian machine.
> 	Sorry... 1) I run on WinXP; 2) I don't build packages, relying on
> pre-built binaries; 3) I run MySQL.
> 
> 	However, based upon the examples in the Tutorial, that line should
> not have the (, ). A parenthesised (tuple) is suppose to contain a list
> of exceptions, and the parameter to catch the exception specifics has to
> be outside the list.
> 
> 	Best I can suggest is editing that particular line and removing the
> (, ) -- then try rebuilding.
> 
> 	I'll also re-ask: All you are installing is the Python adapter to
> the database. DO YOU HAVE A RUNNING PostgreSQL server that you can
> connect to?

Just to be a bit more explict:
Change file setup.py's line 219 from:
 >>     except (Warning, w):
to either (OK in Python 2.6 and greater):
        except Warning as w:
or (works for Python 2.X):
        except Warning, w:


--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Aug  7 10:11:47 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 15:11:47 +0100
Subject: Changing Remote Registry
In-Reply-To: <5caea3690908070652v2ccb3ac8s4336266afe71dcb5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5caea3690908070652v2ccb3ac8s4336266afe71dcb5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A7C3623.5020702@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Kevin Holleran wrote:
> Good morning,
> 
> I fear the answer to this is that I just cannot do this....
> 
> I wrote a python script that goes out to a bunch of remote machines and 
> queries the registry for some values.  Effectively, there have been some 
> software upgrades that have been done as the need arose but we need to 
> do them across the organization now.  There are three, and the script 
> checks all three and returns the values.  One of these just needs to be 
> a registry change as it is a client server application that the server 
> was upgraded and the clients need a change to a registry value to work.
> 
> Long story short, I am using _winreg to do this.
> 
> hKey = _winreg.OpenKey (keyPath, path, 0, _winreg.KEY_SET_VALUE)
> value,type = _winreg.QueryValueEx(hKey, item)
> if (value == wrongValue):
>        _winreg.SetValue(hKey,'',_winreg.REG_SZ,correctValue)
>                
> 
> When I do this I receive the error:
> 
> _winreg.SetValue WindowsError: [Error 5] Access Denied
> 
> 
> I am running this from my machine as a domain admin, connecting to the 
> remote machine which is also on the domain.
> I am connecting to the remote registry with:
> 
> keyPath = _winreg.ConnectRegistry(r"\\" + 
> ipAddress,_winreg.HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE)
> 
> 
> Thanks for any help. 
> 
What is 'ipAddress'? Is it an actual IP address? The documentation says
it should be the computer name.


From invalid at invalid  Fri Aug  7 10:13:33 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 09:13:33 -0500
Subject: Bug or feature: double strings as one
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-07, durumdara  wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I found an interesting thing in Python.
> Today one of my "def"s got wrong result.
>
> When I checked the code I saw that I miss a "," from the list.
>
> l = ['?' '?']
>
> Interesting, that Python handle them as one string.
>
> print ['?' '?']
> ['\xf3\xd3']
>
> I wanna ask that is a bug or is it a feature?

You "wanna"?

> In other languages, like Delphi (Pascal), Javascript, SQL, etc., I
> must concatenate the strings with some sign, like "+" or "||".

In other languages like Ruby, awk, C, C++, etc. adjacent string
constants are concatenated.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Is it clean in other
                                  at               dimensions?
                               visi.com            


From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Aug  7 10:18:55 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 16:18:55 +0200
Subject: how to overload operator "< <" (a < x < b)?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <53eb4291-9a78-489a-9a5d-396ec8a9c2af@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <7e2regF2eqbabU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

alex23 schrieb:
> On Aug 7, 10:50 pm, Benjamin Kaplan  wrote:
>> That isn't an operator at all. Python does not support compound
>> comparisons like that. You have to do "a > b and b > c".
> 
> You know, it costs nothing to open up a python interpreter and check
> your certainty:
> 
>>>> x = 10
>>>> 1 < x < 20
> True
> 
> This is a _very_ common pattern.
> 
>>>> class X(object):
> ...   def __lt__(self, other):
> ...     print 'in lt'
> ...     return True
> ...   def __gt__(self, other):
> ...     print 'in gt'
> ...     return True
> ...
>>>> x = X()
>>>> 1 < x < 20
> in gt
> in lt
> True
>>>> 20 < x < 1
> in gt
> in lt
> True
> 
> dmitrey: Diez' advice was the best you received.

Not really. I didn't get the chaining, and Peter is right that for that 
there is no real overloading.

Diez


From matt.urry at googlemail.com  Fri Aug  7 10:29:46 2009
From: matt.urry at googlemail.com (ma3mju)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 07:29:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Processes not exiting
References: <6cfb2f39-c6d6-4d2a-882c-18f21addf206@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	
	<61d7fcbb-17f8-4314-90b6-0a6db22abd6d@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<01b55c48-3252-4cec-8781-98487a9071ae@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> 
	
	 
	<996e50f5-c126-4ac2-ae8d-458d22a26ee1@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4b564f49-712c-408a-b8bd-9cff5af4a4fe@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>

On 3 Aug, 09:36, ma3mju  wrote:
> On 2 Aug, 21:49, Piet van Oostrum  wrote:
>
> > >>>>> MRAB  (M) wrote:
> > >M> I wonder whether one of the workers is raising an exception, perhaps due
> > >M> to lack of memory, when there are large number of jobs to process.
>
> > But that wouldn't prevent the join. And you would probably get an
> > exception traceback printed.
>
> > I wonder if something fishy is happening in the multiprocessing
> > infrastructure. Or maybe the Fortran code goes wrong because it has no
> > protection against buffer overruns and similar problems, I think.
> > --
> > Piet van Oostrum 
> > URL:http://pietvanoostrum.com[PGP8DAE142BE17999C4]
> > Private email: p... at vanoostrum.org
>
> I don't think it's a memory problem, the reason for the hard and easy
> queue is because for larger examples it uses far more RAM. If I run
> all of workers with harder problems I do begin to run out of RAM and
> end up spending all my time switching in and out of swap so I limit
> the number of harder problems I run at the same time. I've watched it
> run to the end (a very boring couple of hours) and it stays out of my
> swap space and everything appears to be staying in RAM. Just hangs
> after all "poison" has been printed for each process.
>
> The other thing is that I get the message "here" telling me I broke
> out of the loop after seeing the poison pill in the process and I get
> all the things queued listed as output surely if I were to run out of
> memory I wouldn't expect all of the jobs to be listed as output.
>
> I have a serial script that works fine so I know individually for each
> example the fortran code works.
>
> Thanks
>
> Matt

Any ideas for a solution?


From kdawg44 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 10:30:37 2009
From: kdawg44 at gmail.com (Kevin Holleran)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 10:30:37 -0400
Subject: Changing Remote Registry
In-Reply-To: <5caea3690908070730g620e4fe5j90219702c5cf5a90@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5caea3690908070652v2ccb3ac8s4336266afe71dcb5@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A7C3623.5020702@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<5caea3690908070730g620e4fe5j90219702c5cf5a90@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5caea3690908070730i1030e8fdgdb108e88588c043c@mail.gmail.com>

>
>  Good morning,
>>
>> I fear the answer to this is that I just cannot do this....
>>
>> I wrote a python script that goes out to a bunch of remote machines and
>> queries the registry for some values.  Effectively, there have been some
>> software upgrades that have been done as the need arose but we need to do
>> them across the organization now.  There are three, and the script checks
>> all three and returns the values.  One of these just needs to be a registry
>> change as it is a client server application that the server was upgraded and
>> the clients need a change to a registry value to work.
>>
>> Long story short, I am using _winreg to do this.
>>
>> hKey = _winreg.OpenKey (keyPath, path, 0, _winreg.KEY_SET_VALUE)
>> value,type = _winreg.QueryValueEx(hKey, item)
>> if (value == wrongValue):
>>       _winreg.SetValue(hKey,'',_winreg.REG_SZ,correctValue)
>>
>> When I do this I receive the error:
>>
>> _winreg.SetValue WindowsError: [Error 5] Access Denied
>>
>>
>> I am running this from my machine as a domain admin, connecting to the
>> remote machine which is also on the domain.
>> I am connecting to the remote registry with:
>>
>> keyPath = _winreg.ConnectRegistry(r"\\" +
>> ipAddress,_winreg.HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE)
>>
>>
>> Thanks for any help.
>>
> What is 'ipAddress'? Is it an actual IP address? The documentation says
> it should be the computer name.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


Thanks for the response.  From my experience that does not matter.  It is an
actual IP address.  I can connect to the registry fine, its just the
writing.  I read that value and other values.  It errors on the
_winreg.KEY_SET_VALUE.  I am wondering if Windows just will not let the
registry be changed remotely in this way or if there is something else I
have to do.

Thanks.
-------------- next part --------------
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From matt.urry at googlemail.com  Fri Aug  7 10:31:48 2009
From: matt.urry at googlemail.com (ma3mju)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 07:31:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Processes not exiting
References: <6cfb2f39-c6d6-4d2a-882c-18f21addf206@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	
	<61d7fcbb-17f8-4314-90b6-0a6db22abd6d@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<01b55c48-3252-4cec-8781-98487a9071ae@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> 
	
	 
	<996e50f5-c126-4ac2-ae8d-458d22a26ee1@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1a890fc6-e014-45e7-9eee-2595202b9571@e4g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>

On 3 Aug, 09:36, ma3mju  wrote:
> On 2 Aug, 21:49, Piet van Oostrum  wrote:
>
> > >>>>> MRAB  (M) wrote:
> > >M> I wonder whether one of the workers is raising an exception, perhaps due
> > >M> to lack of memory, when there are large number of jobs to process.
>
> > But that wouldn't prevent the join. And you would probably get an
> > exception traceback printed.
>
> > I wonder if something fishy is happening in the multiprocessing
> > infrastructure. Or maybe the Fortran code goes wrong because it has no
> > protection against buffer overruns and similar problems, I think.
> > --
> > Piet van Oostrum 
> > URL:http://pietvanoostrum.com[PGP8DAE142BE17999C4]
> > Private email: p... at vanoostrum.org
>
> I don't think it's a memory problem, the reason for the hard and easy
> queue is because for larger examples it uses far more RAM. If I run
> all of workers with harder problems I do begin to run out of RAM and
> end up spending all my time switching in and out of swap so I limit
> the number of harder problems I run at the same time. I've watched it
> run to the end (a very boring couple of hours) and it stays out of my
> swap space and everything appears to be staying in RAM. Just hangs
> after all "poison" has been printed for each process.
>
> The other thing is that I get the message "here" telling me I broke
> out of the loop after seeing the poison pill in the process and I get
> all the things queued listed as output surely if I were to run out of
> memory I wouldn't expect all of the jobs to be listed as output.
>
> I have a serial script that works fine so I know individually for each
> example the fortran code works.
>
> Thanks
>
> Matt

Any ideas?


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 10:32:10 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 07:32:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: how to overload operator "< <" (a < x < b)?
References: <53eb4291-9a78-489a-9a5d-396ec8a9c2af@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<7e2regF2eqbabU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <90f46cdb-84cc-47aa-90f4-da0e09472eda@o9g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

"Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
> Not really. I didn't get the chaining, and Peter is right that for that
> there is no real overloading.

I'm sorry, I don't really get why overloading lt & gt isn't an answer
to the OP's question... His terminology may not have been correct but
I'm not sure why it's not a sufficient response.

(then again it is a Friday night and I have been out drinking...)


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Fri Aug  7 10:37:37 2009
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 07:37:37 -0700
Subject: M2Crypto: How to generate subjectKeyIdentifier /
	authorityKeyIdentifier
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	
	
Message-ID: 

Matthias G?ntert wrote:
>> M2Crypto has a couple of bugs open related that, with potential
>> workarounds that I haven't yet deemed polished enough to checkin, but
>> which might help you out:
>>
>> https://bugzilla.osafoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7530
>> https://bugzilla.osafoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12151
> 
> ... Generating the 'subjectKeyIdentifier':
 > ...
> def get_public_key_fingerprint(self):
> 	h = hashlib.new('sha1')
>     	h.update(self.keypair.as_der())
>     	client_serial = h.hexdigest().upper()
>     	client_serial_hex = ''
>     	for byte in xrange(20):
>     	 client_serial_hex += client_serial[byte*2] + client_serial[byte*2
> +1]
>     		if byte < 19:
>     			client_serial_hex += ':'
>         return client_serial_hex 
> ...

More tersely (code golf?):

     def get_public_key_fingerprint(self):
	digest = hashlib.sha1(self.keypair.as_der()).hexdigest().upper()
	return ':'.join(digest[pos : pos+2] for pos in range(0, 40, 2))

--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Aug  7 10:46:56 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 15:46:56 +0100
Subject: Changing Remote Registry
In-Reply-To: <5caea3690908070730g620e4fe5j90219702c5cf5a90@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5caea3690908070652v2ccb3ac8s4336266afe71dcb5@mail.gmail.com>	
	<4A7C3623.5020702@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<5caea3690908070730g620e4fe5j90219702c5cf5a90@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A7C3E60.3060809@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Kevin Holleran wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 10:11 AM, MRAB  > wrote:
> 
>     Kevin Holleran wrote:
> 
>         Good morning,
> 
>         I fear the answer to this is that I just cannot do this....
> 
>         I wrote a python script that goes out to a bunch of remote
>         machines and queries the registry for some values.  Effectively,
>         there have been some software upgrades that have been done as
>         the need arose but we need to do them across the organization
>         now.  There are three, and the script checks all three and
>         returns the values.  One of these just needs to be a registry
>         change as it is a client server application that the server was
>         upgraded and the clients need a change to a registry value to work.
> 
>         Long story short, I am using _winreg to do this.
> 
>         hKey = _winreg.OpenKey (keyPath, path, 0, _winreg.KEY_SET_VALUE)
>         value,type = _winreg.QueryValueEx(hKey, item)
>         if (value == wrongValue):
>               _winreg.SetValue(hKey,'',_winreg.REG_SZ,correctValue)
>            
Hmm. If you're querying with (hKey, item), shouldn't you also be setting
with (hKey, item), not (hKey,'')?

>         When I do this I receive the error:
> 
>         _winreg.SetValue WindowsError: [Error 5] Access Denied
> 
> 
>         I am running this from my machine as a domain admin, connecting
>         to the remote machine which is also on the domain.
>         I am connecting to the remote registry with:
> 
>         keyPath = _winreg.ConnectRegistry(r"\\" +
>         ipAddress,_winreg.HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE)
> 
> 
>         Thanks for any help.
> 
>     What is 'ipAddress'? Is it an actual IP address? The documentation says
>     it should be the computer name.
>     -- 
>     http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the response.  From my experience that does not matter.  It 
> is an actual IP address.  I can connect to the registry fine, its just 
> the writing.  I read that value and other values.  It errors on the 
> _winreg.KEY_SET_VALUE.  I am wondering if Windows just will not let the 
> registry be changed remotely in this way or if there is something else I 
> have to do.
> 


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Aug  7 11:02:09 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 16:02:09 +0100
Subject: Processes not exiting
In-Reply-To: <4b564f49-712c-408a-b8bd-9cff5af4a4fe@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
References: <6cfb2f39-c6d6-4d2a-882c-18f21addf206@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>		<61d7fcbb-17f8-4314-90b6-0a6db22abd6d@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>	<01b55c48-3252-4cec-8781-98487a9071ae@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
		
	<996e50f5-c126-4ac2-ae8d-458d22a26ee1@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4b564f49-712c-408a-b8bd-9cff5af4a4fe@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A7C41F1.3080303@mrabarnett.plus.com>

ma3mju wrote:
> On 3 Aug, 09:36, ma3mju  wrote:
>> On 2 Aug, 21:49, Piet van Oostrum  wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>> MRAB  (M) wrote:
>>>> M> I wonder whether one of the workers is raising an exception, perhaps due
>>>> M> to lack of memory, when there are large number of jobs to process.
>>> But that wouldn't prevent the join. And you would probably get an
>>> exception traceback printed.
>>> I wonder if something fishy is happening in the multiprocessing
>>> infrastructure. Or maybe the Fortran code goes wrong because it has no
>>> protection against buffer overruns and similar problems, I think.
>>> --
>>> Piet van Oostrum 
>>> URL:http://pietvanoostrum.com[PGP8DAE142BE17999C4]
>>> Private email: p... at vanoostrum.org
>> I don't think it's a memory problem, the reason for the hard and easy
>> queue is because for larger examples it uses far more RAM. If I run
>> all of workers with harder problems I do begin to run out of RAM and
>> end up spending all my time switching in and out of swap so I limit
>> the number of harder problems I run at the same time. I've watched it
>> run to the end (a very boring couple of hours) and it stays out of my
>> swap space and everything appears to be staying in RAM. Just hangs
>> after all "poison" has been printed for each process.
>>
>> The other thing is that I get the message "here" telling me I broke
>> out of the loop after seeing the poison pill in the process and I get
>> all the things queued listed as output surely if I were to run out of
>> memory I wouldn't expect all of the jobs to be listed as output.
>>
>> I have a serial script that works fine so I know individually for each
>> example the fortran code works.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Matt
> 
> Any ideas for a solution?

A workaround is to do them in small batches.

You could put each job in a queue with a flag to say whether it's hard 
or easy, then:

     while have more jobs:
         move up to BATCH_SIZE jobs into worker queues
         create and start workers
         wait for workers to finish
         discard workers


From exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  Fri Aug  7 11:02:13 2009
From: exarkun at twistedmatrix.com (exarkun at twistedmatrix.com)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 15:02:13 -0000
Subject: how to overload operator "< <" (a < x < b)?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <53eb4291-9a78-489a-9a5d-396ec8a9c2af@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <20090807150213.13038.275088682.divmod.xquotient.2@localhost.localdomain>

On 12:50 pm, benjamin.kaplan at case.edu wrote:
>On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 8:00 AM, dmitrey 
>wrote:
>>hi all,
>>is it possible to overload operator "< ?<"? (And other like this one,
>>eg "<= ?<=", "> ?>", ">= ?>=")
>>Any URL/example?
>>Thank you in advance, D.
>
>That isn't an operator at all. Python does not support compound
>comparisons like that. You have to do "a > b and b > c".

That's partially correct.  There is no "compound less than operator", or
whatever you want to call that.  However, Python does support "compound
comparisons" like that:

  >>> 1 < 2 < 3
  True
  >>> 1 < 3 < 2
  False
  >>> 1 == 2 == 3
  False
  >>> 2 == 2 == 2
  True
  >>>
Jean-Paul


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Fri Aug  7 11:04:22 2009
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 08:04:22 -0700
Subject: how to overload operator "< <" (a < x < b)?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <53eb4291-9a78-489a-9a5d-396ec8a9c2af@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Benjamin Kaplan wrote:
> .... Python does not support compound
> comparisons like that. You have to do "a > b and b > c".

Funny, my python does.  This has been around a long time.
I am not certain whether 1.5.2 did it, but "chained comparisons"
have been around for a long time.

     >>> 'a'< 'd' <'z'
     True
     >>> 'a'< 'D' <'z'
     False

--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From kdawg44 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 11:05:01 2009
From: kdawg44 at gmail.com (Kevin Holleran)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 11:05:01 -0400
Subject: Changing Remote Registry
In-Reply-To: <4A7C3E60.3060809@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <5caea3690908070652v2ccb3ac8s4336266afe71dcb5@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A7C3623.5020702@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<5caea3690908070730g620e4fe5j90219702c5cf5a90@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A7C3E60.3060809@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <5caea3690908070805q3ff8f208r37a50a670c9f1bc9@mail.gmail.com>

 On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 10:46 AM, MRAB  wrote:

> Kevin Holleran wrote:
>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 10:11 AM, MRAB > python at mrabarnett.plus.com>> wrote:
>>
>>    Kevin Holleran wrote:
>>
>>        Good morning,
>>
>>        I fear the answer to this is that I just cannot do this....
>>
>>        I wrote a python script that goes out to a bunch of remote
>>        machines and queries the registry for some values.  Effectively,
>>        there have been some software upgrades that have been done as
>>        the need arose but we need to do them across the organization
>>        now.  There are three, and the script checks all three and
>>        returns the values.  One of these just needs to be a registry
>>        change as it is a client server application that the server was
>>        upgraded and the clients need a change to a registry value to work.
>>
>>        Long story short, I am using _winreg to do this.
>>
>>        hKey = _winreg.OpenKey (keyPath, path, 0, _winreg.KEY_SET_VALUE)
>>        value,type = _winreg.QueryValueEx(hKey, item)
>>        if (value == wrongValue):
>>              _winreg.SetValue(hKey,'',_winreg.REG_SZ,correctValue)
>>
>>
> Hmm. If you're querying with (hKey, item), shouldn't you also be setting
> with (hKey, item), not (hKey,'')?
>
>
>         When I do this I receive the error:
>>
>>        _winreg.SetValue WindowsError: [Error 5] Access Denied
>>
>>
>>        I am running this from my machine as a domain admin, connecting
>>        to the remote machine which is also on the domain.
>>        I am connecting to the remote registry with:
>>
>>        keyPath = _winreg.ConnectRegistry(r"\\" +
>>        ipAddress,_winreg.HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE)
>>
>>
>>        Thanks for any help.
>>
>>    What is 'ipAddress'? Is it an actual IP address? The documentation says
>>    it should be the computer name.
>>    --    http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for the response.  From my experience that does not matter.  It is
>> an actual IP address.  I can connect to the registry fine, its just the
>> writing.  I read that value and other values.  It errors on the
>> _winreg.KEY_SET_VALUE.  I am wondering if Windows just will not let the
>> registry be changed remotely in this way or if there is something else I
>> have to do.
>>
>>  --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

Sorry, that line is correct, I was removing specific information relevant to
our infrastructure.  That is the valuename.  The error I am getting is:


Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "script.py", line 53, in 
    value,type = _winreg.QueryValueEx(hKey,item)
WindowsError: [Error 5] Access is denied

But the real error is here I believe:

       hKey = _winreg.OpenKey (keyPath, path, 0, _winreg.KEY_SET_VALUE)

When I just do a:

       hKey = _winreg.OpenKey (keyPath, path, 0, _winreg.KEY_READ)

I receive no errors.

Thanks.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Fri Aug  7 11:13:07 2009
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 17:13:07 +0200
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
References: 
	
	<2qcrk6-doj.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	
	<028b1ce0$0$5185$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<556b00a3-bbbf-4076-a300-d20839a313c8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

* alex23 (Fri, 7 Aug 2009 06:53:22 -0700 (PDT))
> Thorsten Kampe  wrote:
> > Bollocks. No one will even notice whether a code sequence runs 2.7 or
> > 5.7 seconds. That's completely artificial benchmarking.
> 
> But that's not what you first claimed:
> 
> > I don't think any measurable speed increase will be
> > noticeable between those two.
> 
> But please, keep changing your argument so you don't have to admit you
> were wrong.

Bollocks. Please note the word "noticeable". "noticeable" as in 
recognisable as in reasonably experiencable or as in whatever.

One guy claims he has times between 2.7 and 5.7 seconds when 
benchmarking more or less randomly generated "one million different 
lines". That *is* *exactly* nothing.

Another guy claims he gets times between 2.9 and 6.2 seconds when 
running decode/unicode in various manifestations over "18 million 
words" (or is it 600 million?) and says "the differences are pretty 
significant". I think I don't have to comment on that.

If you increase the number of loops to one million or one billion or 
whatever even the slightest completely negligible difference will occur. 
The same thing will happen if you just increase the corpus of words to a 
million, trillion or whatever. The performance implications of that are 
exactly none.

Thorsten


From manu3d at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 11:15:08 2009
From: manu3d at gmail.com (Emanuele D'Arrigo)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 08:15:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Executing untrusted code
Message-ID: <137d4d96-c481-4806-a8cf-2904e89c78ae@l35g2000vba.googlegroups.com>

Greetings everybody,

I've been reading and mulling about python and security, specifically
in terms of executing code that may or may not be trustworthy. I
understand that libraries such as Rexec and Bastion are now deprecated
because they have known vulnerabilities that may be exploited to
circumvent the restrictions imposed.

So, am I right in understanding that is not possible to execute a
piece of code in a way that limits the objects and attributes that it
can access or that limits its access to file system and sockets? Are
there best practices to at least minimize some of the risks associated
with untrusted code execution?

And whatever happened to this:

http://sayspy.blogspot.com/2007/05/i-have-finished-securing-python.html

seemed to be a step forward in the right direction!

Manu


From gert.cuykens at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 11:23:52 2009
From: gert.cuykens at gmail.com (gert)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 08:23:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: HTTP_RANGE
Message-ID: <72a8588f-ea26-489a-936d-29462e57c917@p28g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>

def application(environ, response):
    range=environ.get('HTTP_RANGE','bytes=0-').replace
('bytes=','').split(',')
    offset=[]
    for r in range: offset.append(r.split('-'))
    out='0123456789'
    lengthF=len(out)
    lengthC=str(lengthF-int(offset[0][0]))
    bitS=int(offset[0][0])
    bitE=lengthF-1
    bytes='bytes '+str(bitS)+'-'+str(bitE)+'/'+str(lengthF)
    response('200 OK', [('Content-Length', lengthC), ('Content-
Range',bytes)])
    return [out[bitS:]]

C:\Users\gert\Desktop>curl http://127.0.0.1/appwsgi/wsgi/download.wsgi
-v
* About to connect() to 127.0.0.1 port 80 (#0)
*   Trying 127.0.0.1... connected
* Connected to 127.0.0.1 (127.0.0.1) port 80 (#0)
> GET /appwsgi/wsgi/download.wsgi HTTP/1.1
> User-Agent: curl/7.19.4 (amd64-pc-win32) libcurl/7.19.4 OpenSSL/0.9.8j zlib/1.2.3
> Host: 127.0.0.1
> Accept: */*

* HTTP 1.0, assume close after body
< HTTP/1.0 200 OK
< Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 19:05:09 GMT
< Server: WSGIServer/0.1 Python/3.1
< Content-Length: 10
< Content-Range: bytes 0-9/10
<
0123456789* Closing connection #0

C:\Users\gert\Desktop>curl -C 2 http://127.0.0.1/appwsgi/wsgi/download.wsgi
-v
* About to connect() to 127.0.0.1 port 80 (#0)
*   Trying 127.0.0.1... connected
* Connected to 127.0.0.1 (127.0.0.1) port 80 (#0)
> GET /appwsgi/wsgi/download.wsgi HTTP/1.1
> Range: bytes=2-
> User-Agent: curl/7.19.4 (amd64-pc-win32) libcurl/7.19.4 OpenSSL/0.9.8j zlib/1.2.3
> Host: 127.0.0.1
> Accept: */*

* HTTP 1.0, assume close after body
< HTTP/1.0 200 OK
< Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 19:06:52 GMT
< Server: WSGIServer/0.1 Python/3.1
< Content-Length: 8
< Content-Range: bytes 2-9/10
<
23456789* Closing connection #0

Why does it use HTTP 1.0 ? Can I force it to use HTTP 1.1 ?


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Aug  7 11:28:24 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 16:28:24 +0100
Subject: Changing Remote Registry
In-Reply-To: <5caea3690908070805q3ff8f208r37a50a670c9f1bc9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5caea3690908070652v2ccb3ac8s4336266afe71dcb5@mail.gmail.com>	<4A7C3623.5020702@mrabarnett.plus.com>	<5caea3690908070730g620e4fe5j90219702c5cf5a90@mail.gmail.com>	<4A7C3E60.3060809@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<5caea3690908070805q3ff8f208r37a50a670c9f1bc9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A7C4818.10709@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Kevin Holleran wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 10:46 AM, MRAB  > wrote:
> 
>     Kevin Holleran wrote:
> 
> 
>         On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 10:11 AM, MRAB
>         
>                  >> wrote:
> 
>            Kevin Holleran wrote:
> 
>                Good morning,
> 
>                I fear the answer to this is that I just cannot do this....
> 
>                I wrote a python script that goes out to a bunch of remote
>                machines and queries the registry for some values.
>          Effectively,
>                there have been some software upgrades that have been done as
>                the need arose but we need to do them across the organization
>                now.  There are three, and the script checks all three and
>                returns the values.  One of these just needs to be a registry
>                change as it is a client server application that the
>         server was
>                upgraded and the clients need a change to a registry
>         value to work.
> 
>                Long story short, I am using _winreg to do this.
> 
>                hKey = _winreg.OpenKey (keyPath, path, 0,
>         _winreg.KEY_SET_VALUE)
>                value,type = _winreg.QueryValueEx(hKey, item)
>                if (value == wrongValue):
>                      _winreg.SetValue(hKey,'',_winreg.REG_SZ,correctValue)
>                  
> 
>     Hmm. If you're querying with (hKey, item), shouldn't you also be setting
>     with (hKey, item), not (hKey,'')?
> 
> 
>                When I do this I receive the error:
> 
>                _winreg.SetValue WindowsError: [Error 5] Access Denied
> 
> 
>                I am running this from my machine as a domain admin,
>         connecting
>                to the remote machine which is also on the domain.
>                I am connecting to the remote registry with:
> 
>                keyPath = _winreg.ConnectRegistry(r"\\" +
>                ipAddress,_winreg.HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE)
> 
> 
>                Thanks for any help.
> 
>            What is 'ipAddress'? Is it an actual IP address? The
>         documentation says
>            it should be the computer name.
>            --    http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
> 
> 
>         Thanks for the response.  From my experience that does not
>         matter.  It is an actual IP address.  I can connect to the
>         registry fine, its just the writing.  I read that value and
>         other values.  It errors on the _winreg.KEY_SET_VALUE.  I am
>         wondering if Windows just will not let the registry be changed
>         remotely in this way or if there is something else I have to do.
> 
>     -- 
>     http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
> 
> Sorry, that line is correct, I was removing specific information 
> relevant to our infrastructure.  That is the valuename.  The error I am 
> getting is:
> 
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "script.py", line 53, in 
>     value,type = _winreg.QueryValueEx(hKey,item)
> WindowsError: [Error 5] Access is denied
> 
> But the real error is here I believe:
> 
>        hKey = _winreg.OpenKey (keyPath, path, 0, _winreg.KEY_SET_VALUE)
> 
> When I just do a:
> 
>        hKey = _winreg.OpenKey (keyPath, path, 0, _winreg.KEY_READ)
> 
> I receive no errors.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
If it's complaining _as soon as_ you request write permission then I'd
say that was a permissions problem, not an error! :-)


From mark.v.weber at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 11:51:48 2009
From: mark.v.weber at gmail.com (mark.v.weber at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 08:51:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: how to kill subprocess when Python process is killed?
References: <0feaa2a3-5b73-43e4-9b24-11f157ff6d18@l34g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<3733148e-c03d-42ef-88f7-855c516e6564@d9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <63d1512c-4018-467d-a439-25dd76975e5e@g19g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 7, 12:57?am, alex23  wrote:
> On Aug 7, 3:42?pm, "mark.v.we... at gmail.com" 
> wrote:
>
> > When I kill the main process (cntl-C) the subprocess keeps running.
> > How do I kill the subprocess too? The subprocess is likely to run a
> > long time.
>
> You can register functions to run when the Python process ends by
> using the atexit[1] module.
>
> The following has been tested & works under Python 2.6 on Windows XP:
>
> ? ? import atexit
>
> ? ? def cleanup():
> ? ? ? ? print 'stop thesubprocessin here'
>
> ? ? atexit.register(cleanup)
>
> ? ? while True:
> ? ? ? ? pass
>
> [1]:http://docs.python.org/library/atexit.html

Works perfectly. Thanks!


From kee at kagi.com  Fri Aug  7 12:03:37 2009
From: kee at kagi.com (Kee Nethery)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 09:03:37 -0700
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro
	ups.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<7xk51fgazf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
Message-ID: <690C5186-1666-4EF4-B223-AF8880B0C21C@kagi.com>

During all this conversation there was a ticket posted in the bug  
tracking system with the suggestion of each section in the official  
docs linking to a fixed wiki page that can contain user contributions.

The ticket has been closed because this addition to the official docs  
is already in the works.

So ... to everyone who thinks there needs to be a place for user  
comments to augment the official docs, it's supposed to happen. Same  
with corrections to the docs, there is supposed to be a place per  
section where people can post corrections to the docs.

I'm looking forward to the acceleration of improvements to the  
official docs based upon easy to provide user feedback. Glad to see  
that the bug tracking system is going to not be the primary means for  
documentation changes.

Kee



From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Fri Aug  7 12:05:00 2009
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 09:05:00 -0700
Subject: Bug or feature: double strings as one
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <5Y2dnfnYAdsl0-HXnZ2dnUVZ_j9i4p2d@pdx.net>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2009-08-07, durumdara  wrote:
>> In other languages, like Delphi (Pascal), Javascript, SQL, etc., I
>> must concatenate the strings with some sign, like "+" or "||".
> 
> In other languages like Ruby, awk, C, C++, etc. adjacent string
> constants are concatenated.

I must learn this "etc." language, I hear it mentioned all the time :-)

--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org



From rickbking at comcast.net  Fri Aug  7 12:19:21 2009
From: rickbking at comcast.net (Rick King)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 12:19:21 -0400
Subject: py2exe-created exe results in "application failed to initialize"
Message-ID: <4A7C5409.5020807@comcast.net>

Hi everyone,
I want to package up an application into an exe using py2exe but the 
result produces the dreaded

"application failed to initialize 0x....142" error.

I'm using wxPython and basically just took the sample for wxpython GUI 
that came with py2exe and changed the name. My setup is python 2.6, 
wxpython 2.8. My setup.py looks like the following.

from distutils.core import setup
import py2exe
import sys

class Target:
    def __init__(self, **kw):
        self.__dict__.update(kw)
        # for the versioninfo resources
        self.version = "0.1"
        self.company_name = "OWDC"
        self.copyright = "no copyright"
        self.name = "FileTool"

manifest_template = '''

.... etc.
'''

RT_MANIFEST = 24

FileTool = Target(
    description = "FileTool",
    script = "filetoolGUI.py",
    other_resources = [(RT_MANIFEST, 1, manifest_template % 
dict(prog="FileTool"))],
    dest_base = "FileTool")

setup(
    options = {"py2exe": {"compressed": 1,"optimize": 2,"ascii": 
1,"bundle_files": 1}},
    zipfile = None,
    windows = [FileTool],
    )

Any help will be greatly appreciated!

Rick King
Southfield MI USA



From bbarbero at inescporto.pt  Fri Aug  7 12:19:28 2009
From: bbarbero at inescporto.pt (bbarbero at inescporto.pt)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 18:19:28 +0200
Subject: Extracting matrix from a text file
Message-ID: <20090807181928.10784usha588i2a8@horde.inescporto.pt>

Hello to all!!

I am new in python, and I am running it on Mac with Smultron editor. I  
need to read a textfile that includes numbers (in a matrix form),  
indexes, and strings, like this:

Marsyas-kea distance matrix for MIREX 2007 Audio Similarity Exchange
Q/R	1	2	3	4	5
1	0	4.54592	4.36685	5.29463	3.85728
2	4.54592	0	3.97667	5.02151	4.64284
3	4.36685	3.97667	0	4.98743	4.83683
4	5.29463	5.02151	4.98743	0	6.04393
5	3.85728	4.64284	4.83683	6.04393	0



So I just want to keep the matrix in the "middle" for math computations.

	0       4.54592	4.36685	5.29463	3.85728
	4.54592	0	3.97667	5.02151	4.64284
	4.36685	3.97667	0	4.98743	4.83683
	5.29463	5.02151	4.98743	0	6.04393
	3.85728	4.64284	4.83683	6.04393	0

I've seen and tried a lot of ways, like split or isinstance.. but  
never get the wanted result.... does anyone have an idea, or hint?  
Thank you once more for your help!

Best Regards,
Bea

----------------------------------------------------------------
This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Fri Aug  7 12:31:27 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 18:31:27 +0200
Subject: Cython + setuptools not working with .pyx,only with .c-files
In-Reply-To: <7dvq5fF2e21b7U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: <7dvq5fF2e21b7U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <4a7c56e0$0$31871$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> I'm trying to build a Cython-extension as Egg.
> 
> However, this doesn't work - I can either use distutils to build the
> extension, creating a myextension.c-file on the way.
> 
> If that's there, I can use setuptools to build the egg.
> 
> But when I remove the .c-file, the .pyx-file isn't used to re-generate it.

setuptools monkeypatch into distutils to support Pyrex if it's installed,
but most non-bleeding-edge versions do not know about Cython and thus break
the Cython distutils support when Pyrex isn't there as well.

What helps is to put a fake Pyrex installation into your sys.path, like

http://codespeak.net/svn/lxml/trunk/fake_pyrex/

as done at the top of

http://codespeak.net/svn/lxml/trunk/setup.py

I haven't tried if newer setuptools versions have been fixed yet.

Stefan


From sandorl at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 12:32:53 2009
From: sandorl at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?TMOhc3psw7MgU8OhbmRvcg==?=)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 12:32:53 -0400
Subject: question: why isn't a byte of a hash more uniform? how could I 
	improve my code to cure that?
Message-ID: 

Hi all,
I am a Python novice, and right now I would be happy to simply get my job
done with it, but I could appreciate some thoughts on the issue below.

I need to assign one of four numbers to names in a list. The assignment
should be pseudo-random: no pattern whatsoever, but deterministic,
reproducible, and close to uniform. My understanding was that hash functions
would do the job. As I only needed 2 bits of treatment, I picked a byte of
the hashes generated, and even taken mod 4 of it. See the code below.

After I have written a short Python script that hashes my textfile line by
line and collects the numbers next to the original, I checked what I got.
Instead of getting around 25% in each treatment, the range is 17.8%-31.3%. I
understand that the pseudo-randomness means that the treatments should not
be neat and symmetric. Still, this variation is unacceptable for my purpose.
My understanding was that good hash functions generate numbers that look
completely random, and picking only a byte should not change that. I thought
the promise was also to get close to uniformity:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash_function#Uniformity. I tried all the
hashes in the hashlib module, and picked bytes from the beginning and the
end of the hashes, but treatments never were close to uniform (curiously,
always the last treatment seems to be too rare).

Maybe it is an obvious CS puzzle, I'm looking forward to standing corrected.

Thanks!

Laszlo

The script:

#! /usr/bin/python

f = open('names.txt', 'r')
g = open('nameshashed.txt', 'a')

import hashlib

for line in f:
    line = line.rstrip()
    h = str(hashlib.sha512(line).hexdigest())
    s = line + ',' + str(ord(h[64])%4) + '\n'
    g.write(s),
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From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 12:39:15 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 09:39:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Extracting matrix from a text file
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 8, 2:19?am, bbarb... at inescporto.pt wrote:
> I am new in python, and I am running it on Mac with Smultron editor. I ?
> need to read a textfile that includes numbers (in a matrix form), ?
> indexes, and strings, like this:
>
> Marsyas-kea distance matrix for MIREX 2007 Audio Similarity Exchange
> Q/R ? ? 1 ? ? ? 2 ? ? ? 3 ? ? ? 4 ? ? ? 5
> 1 ? ? ? 0 ? ? ? 4.54592 4.36685 5.29463 3.85728
> 2 ? ? ? 4.54592 0 ? ? ? 3.97667 5.02151 4.64284
> 3 ? ? ? 4.36685 3.97667 0 ? ? ? 4.98743 4.83683
> 4 ? ? ? 5.29463 5.02151 4.98743 0 ? ? ? 6.04393
> 5 ? ? ? 3.85728 4.64284 4.83683 6.04393 0
>
> So I just want to keep the matrix in the "middle" for math computations.
>
> ? ? ? ? 0 ? ? ? 4.54592 4.36685 5.29463 3.85728
> ? ? ? ? 4.54592 0 ? ? ? 3.97667 5.02151 4.64284
> ? ? ? ? 4.36685 3.97667 0 ? ? ? 4.98743 4.83683
> ? ? ? ? 5.29463 5.02151 4.98743 0 ? ? ? 6.04393
> ? ? ? ? 3.85728 4.64284 4.83683 6.04393 0
>
> I've seen and tried a lot of ways, like split or isinstance.. but ?
> never get the wanted result.... does anyone have an idea, or hint? ?
> Thank you once more for your help!


isinstance? Are you just randomly trying functions hoping they'll
work? :)

Untested code follows:

with open(,'r') as textfile:
    header = textfile.next() # skip the header
    col_0_size = 8 # cos it does
    for line in textfile:
        newline = line[col_0_size:] # strip off the index column
        columns = newline.split(' ') # will give you a tuple of
strings
        one, two, three, four, five = map(float, columns) # turns the
strings into floats
        # do whatever you want to those values here

This is fairly standard text handling with Python, if you haven't
already you should really work through the Python tutorial[1],
especially the section on strings [2], and if you have, perhaps David
Mertz's 'Text Processing in Python'[3] may be of use.

1: http://docs.python.org/tutorial/
2: http://docs.python.org/tutorial/introduction.html#strings
3: http://gnosis.cx/TPiP/


From no.email at please.post  Fri Aug  7 12:50:12 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 16:50:12 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: PEP 8 exegetics: conditional imports?
Message-ID: 



Conditional imports make sense to me, as in the following example:

def foobar(filename):
    if os.path.splitext(filename)[1] == '.gz':
        import gzip
        f = gzip.open(filename)
    else:
        f = file(filename)
    # etc.

And yet, quoth PEP 8:

    - Imports are always put at the top of the file, just after any module
      comments and docstrings, and before module globals and constants.

...which seems to condemn conditional imports unequivocally. 

Then again, the PEP 8 scriptures do not explicitly mention conditional
imports at all, as far as I can tell, which leaves open the
possibility that they are still righteous. 

In fact, venerable passages in the Python standard library source
code, if properly interpreted, can be seen to carry out conditional
imports, such as this fragment recovered from random.py:

        if a is None:
            try:
                a = long(_hexlify(_urandom(16)), 16)
            except NotImplementedError:
                import time
                a = long(time.time() * 256) # use fractional seconds

Or even more clearly, this one from test/pystone.py:

if __name__ == '__main__':
    import sys



I seek the wisdom of the elders.  Is there a consensus on the matter
of conditional imports?  Are they righteous?  Or are they the way
of the wicked?

kynn


From invalid at invalid  Fri Aug  7 13:00:47 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 12:00:47 -0500
Subject: Bug or feature: double strings as one
References: 
	
	<5Y2dnfnYAdsl0-HXnZ2dnUVZ_j9i4p2d@pdx.net>
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-07, Scott David Daniels  wrote:
> Grant Edwards wrote:
>> On 2009-08-07, durumdara  wrote:
>>> In other languages, like Delphi (Pascal), Javascript, SQL, etc., I
>>> must concatenate the strings with some sign, like "+" or "||".
>> 
>> In other languages like Ruby, awk, C, C++, etc. adjacent string
>> constants are concatenated.
>
> I must learn this "etc." language, I hear it mentioned all the time :-)

Definitely.  Not only does it have _all_ the features, it even
manages to simultaneously have several mutually-exclusive
features.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! I'm meditating on
                                  at               the FORMALDEHYDE and the
                               visi.com            ASBESTOS leaking into my
                                                   PERSONAL SPACE!!


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Fri Aug  7 13:19:47 2009
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 12:19:47 -0500
Subject: question: why isn't a byte of a hash more uniform? how could
	I    improve my code to cure that?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A7C6233.4050105@tim.thechases.com>

> After I have written a short Python script that hashes my textfile line by
> line and collects the numbers next to the original, I checked what I got.
> Instead of getting around 25% in each treatment, the range is 17.8%-31.3%.

That sounds suspiciously like 25% with a +/- 7% fluctuation one 
might expect to see from non-random source data.

Remember that your outputs are driven purely by your inputs in a 
deterministic fashion -- if your inputs are purely random, then 
your outputs should more closely match your expected bin'ing.  If 
your inputs aren't random, you get a taste of your own medicine 
("my file has just the number 42 on every line...why isn't my 
output random?").  And randomness-of-hash-output is a red herring 
since hashing is *not* random.

Your input is also finite -- an aspect which leaves you a far cry 
from the full hash-space.  If an md5 has 32 bytes (256 bits) of 
data, your input would have to cover 2**256 possible inputs to 
see the full profile of your outputs.  That's a lot of input :)

-tkc






From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Aug  7 13:29:23 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 18:29:23 +0100
Subject: Extracting matrix from a text file
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <4A7C6473.8050602@mrabarnett.plus.com>

alex23 wrote:
> On Aug 8, 2:19 am, bbarb... at inescporto.pt wrote:
>> I am new in python, and I am running it on Mac with Smultron editor. I  
>> need to read a textfile that includes numbers (in a matrix form),  
>> indexes, and strings, like this:
>>
>> Marsyas-kea distance matrix for MIREX 2007 Audio Similarity Exchange
>> Q/R     1       2       3       4       5
>> 1       0       4.54592 4.36685 5.29463 3.85728
>> 2       4.54592 0       3.97667 5.02151 4.64284
>> 3       4.36685 3.97667 0       4.98743 4.83683
>> 4       5.29463 5.02151 4.98743 0       6.04393
>> 5       3.85728 4.64284 4.83683 6.04393 0
>>
>> So I just want to keep the matrix in the "middle" for math computations.
>>
>>         0       4.54592 4.36685 5.29463 3.85728
>>         4.54592 0       3.97667 5.02151 4.64284
>>         4.36685 3.97667 0       4.98743 4.83683
>>         5.29463 5.02151 4.98743 0       6.04393
>>         3.85728 4.64284 4.83683 6.04393 0
>>
>> I've seen and tried a lot of ways, like split or isinstance.. but  
>> never get the wanted result.... does anyone have an idea, or hint?  
>> Thank you once more for your help!
> 
> 
> isinstance? Are you just randomly trying functions hoping they'll
> work? :)
> 
> Untested code follows:
> 
> with open(,'r') as textfile:
>     header = textfile.next() # skip the header
>     col_0_size = 8 # cos it does
>     for line in textfile:
>         newline = line[col_0_size:] # strip off the index column
>         columns = newline.split(' ') # will give you a tuple of
> strings
[snip]
Or:
         columns = line.split(' ')[1 : ]


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 13:29:55 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 10:29:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: PEP 8 exegetics: conditional imports?
References: 
Message-ID: <3d84c940-faea-4b3b-af3c-73059b3eaf96@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 8, 2:50?am, kj  wrote:
> Conditional imports make sense to me, as in the following example[...]
> And yet, quoth PEP 8:
>
> ? ? - Imports are always put at the top of the file, just after any module
> ? ? ? comments and docstrings, and before module globals and constants.
>
> ...which seems to condemn conditional imports unequivocally.

Really? It doesn't mention conditionals at all, it simply says that
imports should occur before globals and constants, not before
conditions. If you want to put conditions around your imports, then
that's the place to do it.

> I seek the wisdom of the elders. ?Is there a consensus on the matter
> of conditional imports? ?Are they righteous? ?Or are they the way
> of the wicked?

Bear in mind that PEP 8 primarily applies to submissions to the
standard library, in order to provide a standard that aids in
understanding them. If a module is used throughout a body of code,
it's helpful to list these modules at the top of the code, for
clarity. However, if a module is only required under exceptional
conditions, you'll often see it imported at the point which it's
required: as the import occurs near the code, this mitigates the
initial requirement somewhat, and reduces the startup time of the
code.

The style guide also states:
    But most importantly: know when to be inconsistent -- sometimes
the style
    guide just doesn't apply.  When in doubt, use your best judgment.
Look
    at other examples and decide what looks best.  And don't hesitate
to ask!

Checks around imports are often used to provide cross-version
compatibility. Embedded imports are often used when the code relying
on them is barely used. These are all very common uses.

pystone is a good example. Nothing within the modular code of pystone
requires sys, it's only imported if the module is executed, primarily
for error reporting & argument handling.


From no.email at please.post  Fri Aug  7 13:35:28 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 17:35:28 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Bug or feature: double strings as one
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

In  Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> writes:

>durumdara wrote:

>> I found an interesting thing in Python.
>> Today one of my "def"s got wrong result.
>> 
>> When I checked the code I saw that I miss a "," from the list.
>> 
>> l = ['??' '??']
>> 
>> Interesting, that Python handle them as one string.
>> 
>> print ['??' '??']
>> ['\xf3\xd3']
>> 
>> I wanna ask that is a bug or is it a feature?

Feature, as others have pointed out, though I fail to see the need
for it, given that Python's general syntax for string (as opposed
to string literal) concatenation is already so convenient.  I.e.,
I fail to see why

x = ("first part of a very long string "
     "second part of a very long string")

is so much better than

x = ("first part of a very long string " +
     "second part of a very long string")

FWIW, C has the same concatenation feature for string literals.
E.g., the following is valid C:

printf("first part of a very long string "
       "second part of a very long string\n");

kynn



From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 13:37:02 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 10:37:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Extracting matrix from a text file
References:  
	 
	
Message-ID: 

MRAB  wrote:
> Or:
> ? ? ? ? ?columns = line.split(' ')[1 : ]

Even better, well spotted.


From garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk  Fri Aug  7 13:41:38 2009
From: garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk (garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 17:41:38 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
References: 
	
	<2qcrk6-doj.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	
	<028b1ce0$0$5185$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<556b00a3-bbbf-4076-a300-d20839a313c8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Thorsten Kampe  wrote:
 
> lines". That *is* *exactly* nothing.
> 
> Another guy claims he gets times between 2.9 and 6.2 seconds when 
> running decode/unicode in various manifestations over "18 million 


over a sample of 600000 words (sorry for not being able to explain
myself clear enough so that everyone understands)
while my current project is 18e6 words, that is the overall running time
will be 87 vs. 186 seconds, which is fairly noticeable.

> words" (or is it 600 million?) and says "the differences are pretty 
> significant". 

600 million is the size of the whole corpus, that translates to
48 minutes vs. 1h43min. That already is a huge difference (going to
lunch during noon or waiting another hour until it runs over - and 
you can bet it is _very_ noticeable when I am hungry :-)).

With 9 different versions of the corpus (that is, what we are really
using now) that goes to 7.2 hours (or even less with python3.1!) vs. 15
hours. Being able to re-run the whole corpus generation in one working
day (and then go on with the next issues) vs. working overtime or
delivering the corpus one day later is a huge difference. Like, being
one day behind the schedule.

> I think I don't have to comment on that.

Indeed, the numbers are self-explanatory.

> 
> If you increase the number of loops to one million or one billion or 
> whatever even the slightest completely negligible difference will occur. 
> The same thing will happen if you just increase the corpus of words to a 
> million, trillion or whatever. The performance implications of that are 
> exactly none.
> 

I am not sure I understood that. Must be my English :-)

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------
| Radovan Garab?k http://kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk/~garabik/ |
| __..--^^^--..__    garabik @ kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk     |
 -----------------------------------------------------------
Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus.
Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 13:43:05 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 10:43:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	 
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro ups.com> 
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	 
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<7xk51fgazf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 7, 11:03?am, Kee Nethery  wrote:
...(snip)
> I'm looking forward to the acceleration of improvements to the ?
> official docs based upon easy to provide user feedback. Glad to see ?
> that the bug tracking system is going to not be the primary means for ?
> documentation changes.

+1



From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 13:43:13 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 10:43:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bug or feature: double strings as one
References: 
	 
Message-ID: <1de1eadf-6a2a-414c-a7cf-cf235edadcfb@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

kj  wrote:
> Feature, as others have pointed out, though I fail to see the need
> for it, given that Python's general syntax for string (as opposed
> to string literal) concatenation is already so convenient. ?I.e.,
> I fail to see why
>
> x = ("first part of a very long string "
> ? ? ?"second part of a very long string")
>
> is so much better than
>
> x = ("first part of a very long string " +
> ? ? ?"second part of a very long string")

My impression is it's mostly for one of clarity. It's especially
useful with regular expressions, as it allows for comments to document
each element of the regex (following example shamelessly taken from
the docs (albeit with personal preferences on formatting))):

re.compile(
    "[A-Za-z_]"       # letter or underscore
    "[A-Za-z0-9_]*"   # letter, digit or underscore
)

Not having the plus sign present does assist (IMO) in the ease of
parsing the regex.
re.compile(


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 13:45:29 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 10:45:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
References: 
	 
	<2qcrk6-doj.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	 
	<028b1ce0$0$5185$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	 
	<556b00a3-bbbf-4076-a300-d20839a313c8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com> 
	 
Message-ID: <006e7808-74e7-4d29-a7bc-01492d14de65@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

garabik-news-2005... at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk wrote:
> I am not sure I understood that. Must be my English :-)

I just parsed it as "blah blah blah I won't admit I'm wrong" and
didn't miss anything substantive.




From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 13:48:22 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 10:48:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	 
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro ups.com> 
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	 
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<7xk51fgazf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

Kee Nethery  wrote:
> I'm looking forward to the acceleration of improvements to the ?
> official docs based upon easy to provide user feedback. Glad to see ?
> that the bug tracking system is going to not be the primary means for ?
> documentation changes.

I'm not sure what you see as being fundamentally different between
open access to a bug tracker & open access to a wiki, other than it
being a lot more difficult to have threaded discussion on a wiki.

Why exactly is posting an open comment on a bug tracker somehow
inferior to posting an open comment on a wiki?


From abecedarian314159 at yahoo.com  Fri Aug  7 13:51:17 2009
From: abecedarian314159 at yahoo.com (William)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 10:51:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: questions about object references
Message-ID: <786181.46665.qm@web110610.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

I have a question.? Suppose I do the following:

def myfunc(a,b):
? return a+b

myfunc2=myfunc

is there anyway to find all of the references to myfunc?? That is, can I find out all of the functions that may be aliased to myfunc?

second question:



class MyClass(object):
?def __init__(a,b):
?? self.a=a
?? self.b=b
? def myfunc(self):
??? return self.a+self.b

myclass=MyClass(3,4)
myclass.myfunc2=myclass.myfunc

Is there any way to find all the references to myclass.myfunc--in this case,
myclass.myfunc2?

Thanks,
William

is there a way to 





      
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From drobinow at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 14:05:35 2009
From: drobinow at gmail.com (David Robinow)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 14:05:35 -0400
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
In-Reply-To: 
References:  
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<7xk51fgazf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
	
	
Message-ID: <4eb0089f0908071105i5180b861rea513c70bf8f9655@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 1:48 PM, alex23 wrote:
> Why exactly is posting an open comment on a bug tracker somehow
> inferior to posting an open comment on a wiki?
 When one believes that development is controlled by a cabal which is
jealous of outsiders and actively prevents improvements to the docs,
any change, even if only in perception, helps to weaken the hold of
the evil forces holding back the success of Python.


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Fri Aug  7 14:08:22 2009
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 19:08:22 +0100
Subject: Changing Remote Registry
In-Reply-To: <5caea3690908070652v2ccb3ac8s4336266afe71dcb5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5caea3690908070652v2ccb3ac8s4336266afe71dcb5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A7C6D96.3000201@timgolden.me.uk>

Kevin Holleran wrote:
> Long story short, I am using _winreg to do this.
> 
> hKey = _winreg.OpenKey (keyPath, path, 0, _winreg.KEY_SET_VALUE)
> value,type = _winreg.QueryValueEx(hKey, item)
> if (value == wrongValue):
>        _winreg.SetValue(hKey,'',_winreg.REG_SZ,correctValue)
> 
> 
> When I do this I receive the error:
> 
> _winreg.SetValue WindowsError: [Error 5] Access Denied

As an alternative, try using WMI instead. You'll have to look up the docs
a bit, but to get you started:


import wmi

reg = wmi.WMI ("remote-machine", namespace="default").StdRegProv

print reg.methods.keys ()



TJG


From vorticitywolfe at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 14:17:28 2009
From: vorticitywolfe at gmail.com (J Wolfe)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 11:17:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: passing menu label to function
Message-ID: <44f84fe8-0dce-463f-b37f-b02f241bf93a@e34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I would like to pass the label name of a menu to the command it is
calling, is that possible?

self.menuitem.menu.add_command(label="pass this",command = lambda i =
self.self.menuitem.menu.cget("label"): self.function(i))

def function(self, i)
     print i   # print the label name


Any help would be appreciated!
Thanks!
Jonathan


From marduk at letterboxes.org  Fri Aug  7 14:18:51 2009
From: marduk at letterboxes.org (Albert Hopkins)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 14:18:51 -0400
Subject: PEP 8 exegetics: conditional imports?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <1249669131.8286.32.camel@centar>

On Fri, 2009-08-07 at 16:50 +0000, kj wrote:
> 
> Conditional imports make sense to me, as in the following example:
> 
> def foobar(filename):
>     if os.path.splitext(filename)[1] == '.gz':
>         import gzip
>         f = gzip.open(filename)
>     else:
>         f = file(filename)
>     # etc.
> 
> And yet, quoth PEP 8:
> 
>     - Imports are always put at the top of the file, just after any module
>       comments and docstrings, and before module globals and constants.
> 
> ...which seems to condemn conditional imports unequivocally. 
> 
> Then again, the PEP 8 scriptures do not explicitly mention conditional
> imports at all, as far as I can tell, which leaves open the
> possibility that they are still righteous. 
> 
> In fact, venerable passages in the Python standard library source
> code, if properly interpreted, can be seen to carry out conditional
> imports, such as this fragment recovered from random.py:
> 
>         if a is None:
>             try:
>                 a = long(_hexlify(_urandom(16)), 16)
>             except NotImplementedError:
>                 import time
>                 a = long(time.time() * 256) # use fractional seconds
> 
> Or even more clearly, this one from test/pystone.py:
> 
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     import sys
> 
> 

I can't speak for others... but generally you can "tell" when an import
belongs at the top of a module and when you need to make exceptions.  I
would say that, as a general rule, they go up top (easier to identify
what external dependencies a module have).  There are, of course,
exceptions:

      * Exceptions and other not-often-executed blocks
      * Inside test functions (where the imported modules are only used
        by tests
      * Inside main() functions where the imported modules are only used
        if the module is run as a script
      * When startup-time is important. Often it's necessary to have you
        module up and running in an instant and import "expensive"
        modules as-needed.
      * "Dynamic" import such as plugins, etc.

Of course, like everything else in PEP 8, it's meant as a "guide" and
not as an "order".  YMMV.

-a




From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 14:30:41 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 11:30:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References:   
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<7xk51fgazf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: <56e513e5-63cd-479d-94b2-0f10f617d4a0@d4g2000prc.googlegroups.com>

David Robinow  wrote:
> ?When one believes that development is controlled by a cabal which is
> jealous of outsiders and actively prevents improvements to the docs,
> any change, even if only in perception, helps to weaken the hold of
> the evil forces holding back the success of Python.

Yeah, it's clearly all ego and assholes that's preventing Python from
being the enochian equivalent of programming languages :)


From marduk at letterboxes.org  Fri Aug  7 14:35:52 2009
From: marduk at letterboxes.org (Albert Hopkins)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 14:35:52 -0400
Subject: PEP 8 exegetics: conditional imports?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <1249670152.8286.43.camel@centar>

On Fri, 2009-08-07 at 16:50 +0000, kj wrote:
> 
> Conditional imports make sense to me, as in the following example:
> 
> def foobar(filename):
>     if os.path.splitext(filename)[1] == '.gz':
>         import gzip
>         f = gzip.open(filename)
>     else:
>         f = file(filename)
>     # etc.
> 

I should add that in your example I would probably still put the import
at the top, e.g.:

import gzip
[...]

def foobar(filename):
    if os.path.splitext(filename)[1] == '.gz':
        f = gzip.open(filename)
    else:
        f = open(filename)

Reason being is that if later on I decide I want to write another
function inside my module that does the same thing I don't have to do
the same conditional import.

Even better, if this is something you find yourself doing often you can
create your own "smart" open and put it in a library:

# file anyfile

import __builtin__
import gzip

def open(filename, ...):
    if filename.endswith('.gz'):
        f = gzip.open(filename, ...)
    else:
        f = __builtin__.open(f, ...)

    return f

Then:

>>> import anyfile
>>> f = anyfile.open(filename, ...)

-a




From keith.hughitt at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 14:42:42 2009
From: keith.hughitt at gmail.com (pwnedd)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 11:42:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Database query execution times in Python?
Message-ID: <24870050.post@talk.nabble.com>


Hi all,

I've been writing some code using libraries based on the Python Database API
2.0 (MySQLdb & pg), and so far things are working really well. There is one
thing that I have not been able to figure out how to do, however: 

Retrieve the time is took a given query to execute.

Does anyone know if this is possible?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
Keith


-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Database-query-execution-times-in-Python--tp24870050p24870050.html
Sent from the Python - python-list mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From SandorL at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 14:48:16 2009
From: SandorL at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?L=E1szl=F3_S=E1ndor?=)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 14:48:16 -0400
Subject: question: why isn't a byte of a hash more uniform? how could I
	improve my code to cure that?
References: 
Message-ID: 

Thank you, Tim. My comments are below.

On 2009-08-07 13:19:47 -0400, Tim Chase  said:

>> After I have written a short Python script that hashes my textfile line by
>> line and collects the numbers next to the original, I checked what I got.
>> Instead of getting around 25% in each treatment, the range is 17.8%-31.3%.
> 
> That sounds suspiciously like 25% with a +/- 7% fluctuation one might 
> expect to see from non-random source data.

Could you help me where this range comes from? (If all my lines were 
"42", I wouldn't hit this range. So it cannot be a rule. Right?)

> 
> Remember that your outputs are driven purely by your inputs in a 
> deterministic fashion -- if your inputs are purely random, then your 
> outputs should more closely match your expected bin'ing.  If your 
> inputs aren't random, you get a taste of your own medicine ("my file 
> has just the number 42 on every line...why isn't my output random?").  
> And randomness-of-hash-output is a red herring since hashing is *not* 
> random.

Thanks, I tried to be correct with "pseudo-random". I understand that 
everything is dependent on input. I want it to be the case. However, I 
hoped that good hashes produce random-looking output from input with 
very little variation. It would be strange if I could not get more than 
18% of lines with a remainder of 3 (after division by 4), whatever hash 
I try just because these are names of people.

> 
> Your input is also finite -- an aspect which leaves you a far cry from 
> the full hash-space.  If an md5 has 32 bytes (256 bits) of data, your 
> input would have to cover 2**256 possible inputs to see the full 
> profile of your outputs.  That's a lot of input :)
> 
> -tkc

OK, I understand. Could anyone suggest a better way to do this, then?

(Recap: random-looking, close-to uniform assignment of one number out 
of four possibilities to strings.)

Thanks, everyone.

Laszlo



From REMpeteOVE at petezilla.co.uk  Fri Aug  7 15:04:41 2009
From: REMpeteOVE at petezilla.co.uk (Peter Chant)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 20:04:41 +0100
Subject: Setuptools - help!
References: 
	
Message-ID: <9fauk6-t24.ln1@phoenix.fire>

Robert Kern wrote:

> You need to put main.py into the pphoto package.
> 
> $ mkdir pphoto/
> $ mv main.py pphoto/
> $ touch pphoto/__init__.py
> 

Thanks, it worked.  Any ideas how to run the resulting scripts without
installing or running as root?

Pete


-- 
http://www.petezilla.co.uk


From nagle at animats.com  Fri Aug  7 15:06:47 2009
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 12:06:47 -0700
Subject: Module updating plans for Python 3.1: feedparser, MySQLdb
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4a739a96$0$1615$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	
Message-ID: <4a7c7a50$0$1586$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

Buck wrote:
> I use MySQLdb quite a bit in my work. I could volunteer to help update
> it. Are there any particular bugs we're talking about or just a
> straight port to 3.0?

    It's a non-trivial port.  There's a release candidate for Python 2.6;
see

https://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?release_id=672239

but that was back in March and hasn't advanced since then.

There's an unofficial port of MySQLdb to
Python 2.6 for Windows.  See

https://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?thread_id=3108914&forum_id=70460

The MySQLdb developer says that conversion to 3.0 is hard, and he's busy
doing other things.

					John Nagle


From nagle at animats.com  Fri Aug  7 15:07:48 2009
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 12:07:48 -0700
Subject: Is "feedparser" deprecated?
Message-ID: <4a7c7a8d$0$1661$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

   Feedparser requires SGMLlib, which has been removed from Python 3.0.
Feedparser hasn't been updated since 2007. Does this mean Feedparser
is dead?

				John Nagle


From van.lindberg at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 15:15:55 2009
From: van.lindberg at gmail.com (VanL)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 14:15:55 -0500
Subject: Survey: Does your company use Python? Do you know a company that
	uses Python?
Message-ID: 

This is a survey to find as many companies using Python as we can. You 
can see the survey below:



You don't need to work at the company to add it to this list! We will 
filter for duplicates.

The answers to this survey will be kept private. If you still don't want 
to identify yourself, no problem! We just want to know where Python is 
being used.




From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Fri Aug  7 15:15:56 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 12:15:56 -0700
Subject: question: why isn't a byte of a hash more uniform? how could
	I	improve my code to cure that?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <4A7C7D6C.4020904@stoneleaf.us>

L?szl? S?ndor wrote:
> Thank you, Tim. My comments are below.
> 
> On 2009-08-07 13:19:47 -0400, Tim Chase  
> said:
> 
>>> After I have written a short Python script that hashes my textfile 
>>> line by
>>> line and collects the numbers next to the original, I checked what I 
>>> got.
>>> Instead of getting around 25% in each treatment, the range is 
>>> 17.8%-31.3%.
>>
>>
>> That sounds suspiciously like 25% with a +/- 7% fluctuation one might 
>> expect to see from non-random source data.
> 
> 
> Could you help me where this range comes from? (If all my lines were 
> "42", I wouldn't hit this range. So it cannot be a rule. Right?)
> 
>>
>> Remember that your outputs are driven purely by your inputs in a 
>> deterministic fashion -- if your inputs are purely random, then your 
>> outputs should more closely match your expected bin'ing.  If your 
>> inputs aren't random, you get a taste of your own medicine ("my file 
>> has just the number 42 on every line...why isn't my output random?").  
>> And randomness-of-hash-output is a red herring since hashing is *not* 
>> random.
> 
> 
> Thanks, I tried to be correct with "pseudo-random". I understand that 
> everything is dependent on input. I want it to be the case. However, I 
> hoped that good hashes produce random-looking output from input with 
> very little variation. It would be strange if I could not get more than 
> 18% of lines with a remainder of 3 (after division by 4), whatever hash 
> I try just because these are names of people.
> 
>>
>> Your input is also finite -- an aspect which leaves you a far cry from 
>> the full hash-space.  If an md5 has 32 bytes (256 bits) of data, your 
>> input would have to cover 2**256 possible inputs to see the full 
>> profile of your outputs.  That's a lot of input :)
>>
>> -tkc
> 
> 
> OK, I understand. Could anyone suggest a better way to do this, then?
> 
> (Recap: random-looking, close-to uniform assignment of one number out of 
> four possibilities to strings.)
> 
> Thanks, everyone.
> 
> Laszlo
> 

Well,  a very simplistic method is to use the length of the input string 
modulus four.  If the names have decently "random" lengths, that may work.

~Ethan~


From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Aug  7 15:26:13 2009
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 21:26:13 +0200
Subject: passing menu label to function
References: <44f84fe8-0dce-463f-b37f-b02f241bf93a@e34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

J Wolfe wrote:

> I would like to pass the label name of a menu to the command it is
> calling, is that possible?
> 
> self.menuitem.menu.add_command(label="pass this",command = lambda i =
> self.self.menuitem.menu.cget("label"): self.function(i))
> 
> def function(self, i)
>      print i   # print the label name

A simple pure-python approach:

def add_command_with_label(menu, label, command):
    menu.add_command(label=label, command=lambda: command(label))

# ...

function = self.function
menu = self.menuitem.menu
add_command_with_label(menu, "pass this", function)

Alternatively, if you plan to change the labels during runtime:

index = 1 # indices start at 1, not 0
menu.add_command(label="whatever", command=lambda index=index, menu=menu: 
function(menu.entrycget(index, "label")))

(all untested, likely to contain typos)

Peter



From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Aug  7 15:42:16 2009
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 21:42:16 +0200
Subject: PEP 8 exegetics: conditional imports?
References: 
Message-ID: 

kj wrote:

> Conditional imports make sense to me, as in the following example:
> 
> def foobar(filename):
>     if os.path.splitext(filename)[1] == '.gz':
>         import gzip
>         f = gzip.open(filename)
>     else:
>         f = file(filename)
>     # etc.
> 
> And yet, quoth PEP 8:
> 
>     - Imports are always put at the top of the file, just after any module
>       comments and docstrings, and before module globals and constants.
> 
> ...which seems to condemn conditional imports unequivocally.
> 
> Then again, the PEP 8 scriptures do not explicitly mention conditional
> imports at all, as far as I can tell, which leaves open the
> possibility that they are still righteous.
> 
> In fact, venerable passages in the Python standard library source
> code, if properly interpreted, can be seen to carry out conditional
> imports, such as this fragment recovered from random.py:
> 
>         if a is None:
>             try:
>                 a = long(_hexlify(_urandom(16)), 16)
>             except NotImplementedError:
>                 import time
>                 a = long(time.time() * 256) # use fractional seconds
> 
> Or even more clearly, this one from test/pystone.py:
> 
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     import sys
> 
> 
> 
> I seek the wisdom of the elders.  Is there a consensus on the matter
> of conditional imports?  Are they righteous?  Or are they the way
> of the wicked?

If you want to take a rational approach measure speed and memory footprint 
of your program both with the conditional and unconditional imports. Then go 
with the conditional imports only if you can demonstrate a noticeable 
benefit.

This criterion is unlikely to be met for the examples you give above. time 
is a built-in module, and gzip a thin wrapper around zlib which is also 
built-in.

Peter



From lists at cheimes.de  Fri Aug  7 15:44:57 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 21:44:57 +0200
Subject: PEP 8 exegetics: conditional imports?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

kj wrote:
> I seek the wisdom of the elders.  Is there a consensus on the matter
> of conditional imports?  Are they righteous?  Or are they the way
> of the wicked?

imports in functions are dangerous and may lead to dead locks if they 
are mixed with threads. An import should never start a thread and you 
should avoid to import code in threads.

Christian



From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 15:57:11 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 12:57:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is "feedparser" deprecated?
References: <4a7c7a8d$0$1661$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <61d0b767-144b-4e3b-96dd-afe71904d619@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

John Nagle  wrote:
> ? ?Feedparser requires SGMLlib, which has been removed from Python 3.0.
> Feedparser hasn't been updated since 2007. Does this mean Feedparser
> is dead?

Wouldn't you be better served asking this on the feedparser bug
tracker?

http://code.google.com/p/feedparser/issues/list


From vorticitywolfe at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 16:00:11 2009
From: vorticitywolfe at gmail.com (J Wolfe)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 13:00:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: passing menu label to function
References: <44f84fe8-0dce-463f-b37f-b02f241bf93a@e34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <0ac769de-3a7c-4973-a333-d06b7b14d540@q35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>

Thanks Peter,

I figured out an alternative just as you posted your response,

I just looped through the buttons I wanted to add and used the loop
variable to label the item and then passed it to the function, though
your way seems much more robust.

Thanks a lot!


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 16:00:17 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 13:00:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: PEP 8 exegetics: conditional imports?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
> This criterion is unlikely to be met for the examples you give above. time
> is a built-in module, and gzip a thin wrapper around zlib which is also
> built-in.

This is something I was _utterly_ unaware of. Is there a list of what
modules are built-in readily available?

The only reference[1] I could find via Google doesn't list zlib at
all.

[1]: http://www.vldb.informatik.hu-berlin.de/Themen/manuals/python/python-texinfo/built-in_modules.html


From davea at ieee.org  Fri Aug  7 16:00:59 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 16:00:59 -0400
Subject: question: why isn't a byte of a hash more uniform? how could
	I 	improve my code to cure that?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A7C87FB.40106@ieee.org>

L???????????????????????????????? wrote:
> Hi all,
> I am a Python novice, and right now I would be happy to simply get my job
> done with it, but I could appreciate some thoughts on the issue below.
>
> I need to assign one of four numbers to names in a list. The assignment
> should be pseudo-random: no pattern whatsoever, but deterministic,
> reproducible, and close to uniform. My understanding was that hash functions
> would do the job. As I only needed 2 bits of treatment, I picked a byte of
> the hashes generated, and even taken mod 4 of it. See the code below.
>
> After I have written a short Python script that hashes my textfile line by
> line and collects the numbers next to the original, I checked what I got.
> Instead of getting around 25% in each treatment, the range is 17.8%-31.3%. I
> understand that the pseudo-randomness means that the treatments should not
> be neat and symmetric. Still, this variation is unacceptable for my purpose.
> My understanding was that good hash functions generate numbers that look
> completely random, and picking only a byte should not change that. I thought
> the promise was also to get close to uniformity:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash_function#Uniformity. I tried all the
> hashes in the hashlib module, and picked bytes from the beginning and the
> end of the hashes, but treatments never were close to uniform (curiously,
> always the last treatment seems to be too rare).
>
> Maybe it is an obvious CS puzzle, I'm looking forward to standing corrected.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Laszlo
>
> The script:
>
> #! /usr/bin/python
>
> f = open('names.txt', 'r')
> g = open('nameshashed.txt', 'a')
>
> import hashlib
>
> for line in f:
>     line = line.rstrip()
>     h = str(hashlib.sha512(line).hexdigest())
>     s = line + ',' + str(ord(h[64])%4) + '\n'
>     g.write(s),
>
>   
The problem is indeed simple, but really nothing to do with Python.  
You're using a single character from a hexdigest, so the only 
possibilities are 0,1,2,...9,A,B, C, D,E, and F

Taking the ords of each of those, and moduloing with 4, you get
     4 - 0
     5 - 1
     4 - 2
     3 - 3

In other words, there's a greater than expected likelihood of 1, and 
less than expected likelihood of 3.  I'd figure the distribution ought 
to be:
     25%,  31%, 25%, and 19%

I'd use digest() instead of hexdigest(), and of course reduce the 
subscript  to 63 or less.

DaveA


From davea at ieee.org  Fri Aug  7 16:16:01 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 16:16:01 -0400
Subject: PEP 8 exegetics: conditional imports?
In-Reply-To: <1249669131.8286.32.camel@centar>
References:  <1249669131.8286.32.camel@centar>
Message-ID: <4A7C8B81.1010901@ieee.org>

Albert Hopkins wrote:
> On Fri, 2009-08-07 at 16:50 +0000, kj wrote:
>   
>> Conditional imports make sense to me, as in the following example:
>>
>> def foobar(filename):
>>     if os.path.splitext(filename)[1] == '.gz':
>>         import gzip
>>         f = gzip.open(filename)
>>     else:
>>         f = file(filename)
>>     # etc.
>>
>> And yet, quoth PEP 8:
>>
>>     - Imports are always put at the top of the file, just after any module
>>       comments and docstrings, and before module globals and constants.
>>
>> ...which seems to condemn conditional imports unequivocally. 
>>
>> Then again, the PEP 8 scriptures do not explicitly mention conditional
>> imports at all, as far as I can tell, which leaves open the
>> possibility that they are still righteous. 
>>
>> In fact, venerable passages in the Python standard library source
>> code, if properly interpreted, can be seen to carry out conditional
>> imports, such as this fragment recovered from random.py:
>>
>>         if a is None:
>>             try:
>>                 a = long(_hexlify(_urandom(16)), 16)
>>             except NotImplementedError:
>>                 import time
>>                 a = long(time.time() * 256) # use fractional seconds
>>
>> Or even more clearly, this one from test/pystone.py:
>>
>> if __name__ == '__main__':
>>     import sys
>>
>>
>>     
>
> I can't speak for others... but generally you can "tell" when an import
> belongs at the top of a module and when you need to make exceptions.  I
> would say that, as a general rule, they go up top (easier to identify
> what external dependencies a module have).  There are, of course,
> exceptions:
>
>       * Exceptions and other not-often-executed blocks
>       * Inside test functions (where the imported modules are only used
>         by tests
>       * Inside main() functions where the imported modules are only used
>         if the module is run as a script
>       * When startup-time is important. Often it's necessary to have you
>         module up and running in an instant and import "expensive"
>         modules as-needed.
>       * "Dynamic" import such as plugins, etc.
>
> Of course, like everything else in PEP 8, it's meant as a "guide" and
> not as an "order".  YMMV.
>
> -a
>
>
>   
Excellent points.  I'd add a couple more, one pro, and two con:

You need conditionals when you're doing things that are 
environment-specific.  For example, you might use Win32 stuff when on 
Windows, and something else when on Linux.  So you might have a pair of 
modules which encapsulate the non-portable aspects, and conditionally 
import one of those.

You usually want any imports to be complete before starting 
multithreading.  As somebody else has recently pointed out, there's an 
import-lock that's active during imports,

If two modules do mutual imports (not a good idea, but it is sometimes 
practically unavoidable), the earlier in the file that the import 
happens, the less likely for a problem to crop up.  So try to put them 
at the top.




From gnewsg at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 16:22:58 2009
From: gnewsg at gmail.com (Giampaolo Rodola')
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 13:22:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Survey: Does your company use Python? Do you know a company that 
	uses Python?
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 7 Ago, 21:15, VanL  wrote:
> This is a survey to find as many companies using Python as we can. You
> can see the survey below:
>
> 
>
> You don't need to work at the company to add it to this list! We will
> filter for duplicates.
>
> The answers to this survey will be kept private. If you still don't want
> to identify yourself, no problem! We just want to know where Python is
> being used.

...you accidentally forgot to mention the *reason*.


--- Giampaolo
http://code.google.com/p/pyftpdlib
http://code.google.com/p/psutil


From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Aug  7 16:27:26 2009
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 22:27:26 +0200
Subject: question: why isn't a byte of a hash more uniform? how could I
	improve my code to cure that?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

Dave Angel wrote:

[clever analysis snipped]

> I'd use digest() instead of hexdigest(), and of course reduce the
> subscript  to 63 or less.

OP: You could also try

hash(line) % 4

While AFAIK it doesn't make promises about randomness it might still be good 
enough in practice.

Peter




From horos11 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 16:29:28 2009
From: horos11 at gmail.com (horos11)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 13:29:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: importing fully qualified scripts to check syntax
Message-ID: 

hey all,

I'm trying to make a syntax checker, where I say:

python -c "import /path/to/script"

to check the syntax of the script named '/path/to/script' (note: no py
extension needed). Of course this doesn't work because the
functionality for import is bundled up with the environment..

So - is there any simple, generic way in python to import a python
file without worrying about naming convention or environment? Sort of
like require in perl?

Ed



From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Aug  7 16:33:08 2009
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 22:33:08 +0200
Subject: PEP 8 exegetics: conditional imports?
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

alex23 wrote:

> This is something I was _utterly_ unaware of. Is there a list of what
> modules are built-in readily available?

>> sys.builtin_module_names
('__builtin__', '__main__', '_ast', '_bisect', '_codecs', '_collections', 
'_functools', '_locale', '_random', '_socket', '_sre', '_struct', 
'_symtable', '_warnings', '_weakref', 'array', 'binascii', 'cPickle', 
'cStringIO', 'errno', 'exceptions', 'fcntl', 'gc', 'grp', 'imp', 
'itertools', 'marshal', 'math', 'operator', 'posix', 'pwd', 'select', 
'signal', 'spwd', 'strop', 'sys', 'syslog', 'thread', 'time', 'unicodedata', 
'xxsubtype', 'zipimport', 'zlib')

Peter




From kee at kagi.com  Fri Aug  7 16:35:26 2009
From: kee at kagi.com (Kee Nethery)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 13:35:26 -0700
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro
	ups.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<7xk51fgazf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
	
	
Message-ID: <93DD1DF1-1614-47A6-A512-F7EFEE6B0642@kagi.com>


On Aug 7, 2009, at 10:48 AM, alex23 wrote:

> Kee Nethery  wrote:
>> I'm looking forward to the acceleration of improvements to the
>> official docs based upon easy to provide user feedback. Glad to see
>> that the bug tracking system is going to not be the primary means for
>> documentation changes.
>
> I'm not sure what you see as being fundamentally different between
> open access to a bug tracker & open access to a wiki, other than it
> being a lot more difficult to have threaded discussion on a wiki.
>
> Why exactly is posting an open comment on a bug tracker somehow
> inferior to posting an open comment on a wiki?

It's a good question and deserves a good answer.

* Fewer Steps
* Immediate
* Does not need to be formally reviewed
* Easier to search

For all these comments, assume the starting point is the section in a  
web page that documents a specific python function. Assume the user is  
using the documentation for the first time in attempt to convert to  
Python. Thus, this is the only official Python page they have ever  
seen, they found it via Google and went directly to it. For example  
purposes, I'll use the following page:
http://docs.python.org/reference/lexical_analysis.html
Lets say the user is in section 2.1.3 Comments

Here's the scenario: The user wanted to include "#" in one of their  
strings and the IDE kept interpreting it as a comment. But they really  
need to use that character in the string. Eventually they find out  
that they can escape the character in their string so that Python  
stops thinking it is the beginning of a comment. They want other users  
to not suffer through the same thing, and they want to contribute to  
the betterment of Python, so they want this information saved so that  
others can avoid the mistake they were making.

* Fewer Steps:

With the bug tracking system, their only option is to lobby to get the  
documentation changed. Lets assume that Python experts all agree that  
the docs should get updated with this gotcha (which as a newbie, they  
are not sure that is a valid assumption and would probably just halt  
in their quest to get the docs updated). But assuming everyone agrees  
this is a valuable addition to the docs so that others can avoid the  
same error, where on this page dues the user submit this bug? There is  
no link on this page to the bug tracking system.

Lets assume they find the bug tracking system through determined  
efforts because they believe there has to be such a thing and they are  
absolutely sure the powers that be want their input. When they find  
the bug tracking system ... they have to create a user account. Then  
they have to wait for the confirming email. Finally they get access to  
the bug tracking system and being a good citizen, they want to make  
sure that they are not duplicating a previously entered bug. What do  
they search on? Do they search for 2.1.3? Do they search for "#"?  
Chances are, even if they do a whole set of searches, and if there  
really is already another bug entered for the exact same issue, they  
are unlikely to find it.

So they create a bug and now they need to go back and reference the  
link (find the page from their browser history) and type up why they  
think their modification to the documentation is worthy. Then once the  
bug is submitted ... you get the picture, there are a gazillion steps  
just to submit a bug. Most people do not bother to submit little  
helpful hints to the docs because it is too much of a pain to do so  
and there is zero confidence that as a newbie, anyone cares about what  
they found confusing, after all, they are just a newbie and not worthy  
of altering the documentation. (Certainly that opinion has been  
expressed several times on this mailing list).

With a wiki article tied to each section in the docs, they click on  
the link and are taken directly to the wiki page of user contributions  
for this specific  2.1.3 section of the docs. They scan the user  
comments and see that no one else entered a note about this gotcha.  
They click on the edit button, enter their gotcha, save, and they are  
done.

* Immediate:

With the bug tracking system, they struggle to find a place to  
contribute and then once they make their contribution, they have no  
idea whether anyone will ever see it and whether they have just wasted  
a bunch of time.

With the wiki link for that section, in less than a minute, they can  
see the comments they have left attached to that specific section so  
that others can see them too and perhaps avoid the same mistake they  
made. A wiki link encourages new users to be contributors. New users  
are the absolute best source of what is confusing to a new user.

* Does not need to be formally reviewed:

With the bug tracking system, each bug has to be reviewed by a  
volunteer, analyzed, commented on, dealt with.

With a wiki, no one has to look at user comments. They can just leave  
them there and ignore them. Other users can police the content and add  
additional comments or examples. All the while none of the official  
volunteers have to get in the loop. If some official volunteer wants  
to improve the docs, they can scan the wiki contributions and use that  
as the source for official changes to the docs.

* Easier to search:

Very few people would think to search the bug tracking system for help  
with some specific function. If someone is having trouble with the #  
sign in their strings, the bug tracking system is not going to be at  
the top of their list for search locations, especially when the bug  
tracking system is not mentioned and when found requires a confirmed  
login.

With a wiki link, the first thing someone will do is click on that to  
see if anyone else left notes about the specific problem. If there was  
no answer there, they'd search Google and try bunches of different  
wordings looking for some clue as to what is happening. I doubt most  
users (except for expert users) would ever search the bug tracking  
system for hints on why their code is not doing what they expect.

My 2 cents,
Kee



From horos11 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 16:39:22 2009
From: horos11 at gmail.com (horos11)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 13:39:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: syntax checker in python
Message-ID: 

ps - I just realized that it isn't enough to do:

python -c 'import /path/to/script'

since that actually executes any statement inside of the script
(wheras all I want to do is check syntax)

So - let me reprhase that - exactly how can you do a syntax check in
python? Something like perl's -c:

     perl -c script_name.p

Ed


From nad at acm.org  Fri Aug  7 16:41:53 2009
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 13:41:53 -0700
Subject: questions about object references
References: <786181.46665.qm@web110610.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: 

In article <786181.46665.qm at web110610.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>,
 William  wrote:

> I have a question.? Suppose I do the following:
> 
> def myfunc(a,b):
> ? return a+b
> 
> myfunc2=myfunc
> 
> is there anyway to find all of the references to myfunc?? That is, can I find 
> out all of the functions that may be aliased to myfunc?

The general idea is to search the appropriate namespaces and check for 
object identity, so something like:

>>> def myfunc(a,b):
...     return a+b
... 
>>> myfunc2 = myfunc
>>> 
>>> name = None
>>> namespace = globals()
>>> 
>>> for name in namespace:
...     if namespace[name] is myfunc:
...         print " %s = %s" % (name, namespace[name])
... 
 myfunc = 
 myfunc2 = 

> second question:
> 
> class MyClass(object):
> ?def __init__(a,b):
> ?? self.a=a
> ?? self.b=b
> ? def myfunc(self):
> ??? return self.a+self.b
> 
> myclass=MyClass(3,4)
> myclass.myfunc2=myclass.myfunc
> 
> Is there any way to find all the references to myclass.myfunc--in this case,
> myclass.myfunc2?

This is a little trickier since the object you are searching for is a 
bound method; while it might seem like it should, testing for object 
identity doesn't work.  (You'd could test for identity of the function 
objects pointed to by the bound methods' __func__ attributes.)  However, 
plain old test for equality works, so, for example, to search the 
instance object's attribute space:

>>> class MyClass(object):
...     def __init__(self,a,b):
...         self.a=a
...         self.b=b
...     def myfunc(self):
...         return self.a+self.b
... 
>>> myclass = MyClass(3,4)
>>> myclass.myfunc2 = myclass.myfunc
>>> 
>>> for name in dir(myclass):
...     obj = getattr(myclass, name)  
...     if obj == myclass.myfunc:
...         print " %s is %s" % (name, obj)
... 
 myfunc is >
 myfunc2 is >

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org



From ivlenin at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 16:42:42 2009
From: ivlenin at gmail.com (I V)
Date: 7 Aug 2009 22:42:42 +0200
Subject: Is "feedparser" deprecated?
References: <4a7c7a8d$0$1661$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<61d0b767-144b-4e3b-96dd-afe71904d619@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a7c91c2$1@news.x-privat.org>

On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 12:57:11 -0700, alex23 wrote:
> John Nagle  wrote:
>> Feedparser hasn't been updated since 2007. Does this mean Feedparser is
>> dead?
> 
> Wouldn't you be better served asking this on the feedparser bug tracker?
> 
> http://code.google.com/p/feedparser/issues/list

But if the project _is_ dead, one would be unlikely to get a response on 
the bug tracker; as seems, in fact, to have happened already:

http://code.google.com/p/feedparser/issues/detail?id=160&start=100

I take it that the lack of response to this issue means the answer is 
"yes."


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Fri Aug  7 16:42:51 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 17:42:51 -0300
Subject: one method of COM object needs a variant type variable
References: <913F77222E913C49A057FDD7BBDEAAA30192B8A0@br-dc.uhul.wan>
Message-ID: 

En Fri, 07 Aug 2009 04:21:03 -0300, MICH?LEK Jan Mgr.
 escribi?:

> Thanks Gabriel,
> I seen this before, but I don't know, what's mean 'compatible object'. I  
> need create object who will like as an variant type.

A variant is like a giant union contaning almost every basic type. See
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms221627.aspx
A variant can hold simple Python objects as integer, float, string... but
not complex ones as, say, DocXMLRPCServer. The conversion to/from variant
types is done automatically.
I think you'll get more help in the python-win32 at python.org list.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 16:52:03 2009
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Fuzzyman)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 13:52:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is python buffer overflow proof?
References:  
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 3, 10:04?pm, sturlamolden  wrote:
> On 2 Aug, 15:50, Jizzai  wrote:
>
> > Is a _pure_ python program buffer overflow proof?
>
> > For example in C++ you can declare a char[9] to hold user input.
> > If the user inputs 10+ chars a buffer overflow occurs.
>
> Short answer: NO
>
> Bounds checking on sequence types is a protection against buffer
> overflow, but is certainly not sufficient.
>
> The Python interpreter is written in C. Python extension modules are
> written in C (or something similar). If you find an unprotected buffer
> in this C code, you can possibly overflow this buffer. This can be
> used for nasty things like corrupting the stack and injecting
> malicious code. There is a reason why the Python sandbox (rexec and
> Bastion modules) was disabled in Python 2.3.
>
> IronPython and Jython provides better protection against buffer
> overflow than CPython, as these interpreters are written in safer
> languages (C# and Java). You thus get an extra layer of protection
> between the Python code and the unsafe C (used in JVM and .NET
> runtimes).

Well, both Java and .NET both have their own FFI that let you do
whatever you want (more or less).

Michael Foord
--
http://www.ironpythoninaction.com/


From no.email at please.post  Fri Aug  7 16:53:10 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 20:53:10 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: unique-ifying a list
Message-ID: 



Suppose that x is some list.  To produce a version of the list with
duplicate elements removed one could, I suppose, do this:

    x = list(set(x))

but I expect that this will not preserve the original order of
elements.

I suppose that I could write something like

def uniquify(items):
    seen = set()
    ret = []
    for i in items:
        if not i in seen:
            ret.append(i)
            seen.add(i)
    return ret

But this seems to me like such a commonly needed operation that I
find it hard to believe one would need to resort to such self-rolled
solutions.  Isn't there some more standard (and hopefully more
efficient, as in "C-coded"/built-in) approach?

TIA!

kynn


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 16:54:05 2009
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Fuzzyman)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 13:54:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is python buffer overflow proof?
References:  
	 
	
	<4a77c0d9$0$1584$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <95f33050-4f3b-42e8-97f3-9caf3e36292f@g19g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 4, 6:06?am, John Nagle  wrote:
> Gabriel Genellina wrote:
> > En Mon, 03 Aug 2009 18:04:53 -0300, sturlamolden 
> > escribi?:
>
> >> On 2 Aug, 15:50, Jizzai  wrote:
>
> >>> Is a _pure_ python program buffer overflow proof?
>
> >>> For example in C++ you can declare a char[9] to hold user input.
> >>> If the user inputs 10+ chars a buffer overflow occurs.
>
> >> Short answer: NO
> > I disagree. You've just translated the responsability to check for
> > buffer overflows, from the Python VM, to the Java VM or the .Net runtime
> > (and all three suffered from buffer overruns and other problems in some
> > way or another).
>
> ? ? A more useful question is whether the standard libraries are being
> run through any of the commercial static checkers for possible buffer
> overflows.
>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? John Nagle

Python has been run through valgrind which did expose (and result in
the fixing) of several theoretical problems.

Pure Python can be crashed (cause segfaults) in various ways - there
is even a directory of tests that do this in the test suite. I don't
think any are due to buffer overflows.

Michael Foord
--
http://www.ironpythoninaction.com/


From mensanator at aol.com  Fri Aug  7 17:01:06 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 14:01:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Good news & bad news (was: Turtle Graphics are incompatible with 
	gmpy)
References: 
	<0002b5d3$0$2970$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4a7936a4$0$1552$91cee783@newsreader03.highway.telekom.at> 
	 
	<4A79C7E2.3000406@aon.at>
	
	 
	<49395cf2-c2fb-4fd9-b2f2-7f462abe8250@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> 
	<4a7a28b3$0$2303$91cee783@newsreader01.highway.telekom.at> 
	
Message-ID: 

Bad news:

I ran the 2.5 turtle.py through the 2to3 refactorer but the
result would not run in 3.1, some kind of type mismatch between
ints and NoneType. So I set it aside.

Good news:

I tracked down the actual cause of the image discrepencies in my
report.

http://www.mensanator.com/mensanator/PythonTurtle/turtle.htm

These are completely bogus as it turns out. I had thought I was
essentially executing the same code (aside from changing 3.1
turtle functions that don't exist in 2.5 to their equivalent).

But in my mucking about tracking down the gmpy problem, a bug
crept in when I converted back from Python ints

  if side == 'northeast':
    elbow_offset = [int((gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)//2 +1),
                    -int(((gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)//2) +1)]
  else:
    elbow_offset = [-int(((gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)//2 +1)),
                    int(((gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)//2 +1))]

to gmpy ints.

  if side == 'northeast':
    elbow_offset = [(gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)//2 +1,
                    -((gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)//2) +1]
  else:
    elbow_offset = [-((gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)//2 +1),
                    ((gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)//2 +1)]

A ")" is mislocated in -((gmpy.sqrt(elbow)-1)//2) +1], the one
after "//2" should have been placed after the "+1". There were
still three matching sets, but the +1 was now happening after
the negation instead or prior to it. And, of course, this lead
to discrepencies in the calls to the turtle goto function.
And, luckily, the code chain for 2.5 originated from the version
prior to the introduction of this error, otherwise, if the same
error was in both, the images would have been identicle albeit
wrong.

So it looks like there is NO practical difference between the
2.5 algorithm and the 3.1 algorithm. I'm no longer going to try
to get the 2.5 turtle.py to work in 3.1.

And with the nhops calculation changed to

 nhops = 1+int((float(diffsq)**0.5)/(3*(1.1**self._speed)
*self._speed))

it no longer crashes in trace mode.

This was probably originally provoked by gmpy 1.10 and probably
isn't a problem in 2.6 with gmpy 1.04. I had upgraded my 2.6 gmpy
to 1.10 where it also crashed. I may have run the test code in
2.6 when I had 1.04 installed but it's unlikely I would have done
so with tracing on since it's 100 times slower. But I expect it
would not have failed due to this:


Changes in gmpy 1.10

Number conversion rules have changed.
-------------------------------------
The arguments in operations involving mixed types are converted
using the following rules:

   Integer --> Rational   --> Floating-point
    'int'       'Fraction'     'float'
    'long'      'mpq'          'Decimal'
    'mpz'                      'mpf'

   Old behavior:
     mpz(1) + float(1.2)     --> float(2.2)
     mpz(1) + Decimal('1.2') --> mpz(2)

   New behavior:
     mpz(1) + float(1.2)     --> mpf(2.2)
     mpz(1) + Decimal('1.2') --> mpf(2.2)


Apparently, as I painfully found out, that rule change can cause
applications to fail due to an mpf result from a mixed type function
instead of a float when they subsequently use fractional
exponentiation.



From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Fri Aug  7 17:04:15 2009
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 7 Aug 2009 21:04:15 GMT
Subject: Bug or feature: double strings as one
References: 
	
	<5Y2dnfnYAdsl0-HXnZ2dnUVZ_j9i4p2d@pdx.net>
	
Message-ID: 

Grant Edwards  wrote:

> Definitely.  Not only does it have _all_ the features, it even
> manages to simultaneously have several mutually-exclusive
> features.

Sounds a bit like Perl.


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Fri Aug  7 17:41:07 2009
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 14:41:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: unique-ifying a list
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 7, 1:53?pm, kj  wrote:
> Suppose that x is some list. ?To produce a version of the list with
> duplicate elements removed one could, I suppose, do this:
>
> ? ? x = list(set(x))
>
> but I expect that this will not preserve the original order of
> elements.
>
> I suppose that I could write something like
>
> def uniquify(items):
> ? ? seen = set()
> ? ? ret = []
> ? ? for i in items:
> ? ? ? ? if not i in seen:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ret.append(i)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? seen.add(i)
> ? ? return ret
>
> But this seems to me like such a commonly needed operation that I
> find it hard to believe one would need to resort to such self-rolled
> solutions. ?Isn't there some more standard (and hopefully more
> efficient, as in "C-coded"/built-in) approach?
>

Honestly, doing unique operations is pretty rare in the application
level. Unless you're writing some kind of database, I don't see why
you'd do it. (My recommendation is not to write databases.)

If you want unique elements, use a set. If you want to order them,
sort a list of the items in the set.

If you want to preserve the order, then using a dict may be even
better.

    orig_order = dict(reversed([reversed(i) for i in enumerate
(items)])
    unique_ordered = sorted(orig_order.keys(), key=lambda k: orig_order
[k])

Hints to understanding:
* enumerate generates (index, item) pairs.
* We reverse each pair so that we get an item -> index mapping.
* We reverse it so that the first ones appear last. Later pairs
override earlier ones in dict().


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Fri Aug  7 17:48:51 2009
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 14:48:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: syntax checker in python
References: 
Message-ID: <675fb1c7-1747-4a22-8d74-42affc1929bc@i4g2000prm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 7, 1:39?pm, horos11  wrote:
> ps - I just realized that it isn't enough to do:
>
> python -c 'import /path/to/script'
>
> since that actually executes any statement inside of the script
> (wheras all I want to do is check syntax)
>
> So - let me reprhase that - exactly how can you do a syntax check in
> python? Something like perl's -c:
>
> ? ? ?perl -c script_name.p
>

You may want to read the sections under "Python Language Services" in
the Python Library Reference. There may be something you are looking
for there.


From no.email at please.post  Fri Aug  7 17:51:39 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 21:51:39 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Why all the __double_underscored_vars__?
Message-ID: 



Python is chock-full of identifiers beginning and ending with double
underscores, such as __builtin__, __contains__, and __coerce__.

Using underscores to signal that an identifier is somehow "private"
to an implementation is pretty common in languages other than
Python.  But in these cases the understanding is that the use of
these variables in external code amounts to "going behind the API",
and is therefore unwise.

But as far as I can tell, Python's double-underscore variables are
very much part of Python's API.  E.g., programmers are specifically
instructed to override "double-underscore methods" to achieve
certain functionalities.

In this case, I wonder: what justifiies the double-underscore
convention?  For example, what would be the problem with changing
the name of the complex.__gt__ method to complex.gt?

TIA!

kynn


From hjtoi-better-remove-before-reply at comcast.net  Fri Aug  7 18:02:15 2009
From: hjtoi-better-remove-before-reply at comcast.net (Heikki Toivonen)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 15:02:15 -0700
Subject: Setuptools - help!
References: 
	
	<9fauk6-t24.ln1@phoenix.fire>
Message-ID: 

Peter Chant wrote:
> Thanks, it worked.  Any ideas how to run the resulting scripts without
> installing or running as root?

If you install as root, you should be able to run the scripts as normal
user. However, I don't recommend this approach since it could conflict
with your system Python packages.

I like using virtualenv to create isolated Python environments. I can
easily install whatever Python packages I want into each environment,
delete them when I am done with them or messed up etc.

http://pypi.python.org/pypi/virtualenv

-- 
  Heikki Toivonen - http://heikkitoivonen.net


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Fri Aug  7 18:13:41 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 18:13:41 -0400
Subject: Why all the __double_underscored_vars__?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908071513m2e25009dv7bd61e7b20a9094a@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 5:51 PM, kj wrote:
> Python is chock-full of identifiers beginning and ending with double
> underscores, such as __builtin__, __contains__, and __coerce__.
>
> Using underscores to signal that an identifier is somehow "private"
> to an implementation is pretty common in languages other than
> Python. ?But in these cases the understanding is that the use of
> these variables in external code amounts to "going behind the API",
> and is therefore unwise.
>
> But as far as I can tell, Python's double-underscore variables are
> very much part of Python's API. ?E.g., programmers are specifically
> instructed to override "double-underscore methods" to achieve
> certain functionalities.

Right, but the *users* of the functionality provided by __methods__
typically should not invoke such methods directly.
For example, one should write `a > b`, not `a.__gt__(b)`. The lack of
underscores in just plain `gt` would suggest that it's a normal method
that could/should be called directly. Also, if the underscore
requirement were removed, then people might unknowingly overload an
operator without knowing it.
The double-underscores indicate that the Python interpreter itself
usually is the caller of the method, and as such some level of "magic"
may be associated with it. Other languages have you do the equivalent
of `def +():` or `def operator +()` to override an operator, the
keyword or symbol serving a similar warning that "here be magic". To
avoid adding another keyword and the confusion of having punctuation
as method names, Python uses a different convention, double leading
and trailing underscores.

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From labjacksupport at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 18:16:57 2009
From: labjacksupport at gmail.com (LabJack Support)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 15:16:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ValueError: Procedure probably called with not enough arguments (8 
	bytes missing)
Message-ID: 

Hello! I am chasing around a problem that I am having with ctypes and
I am hoping someone can help out. Here is the Python code:

    def asynch(self, baudrate, data, idNum=None, demo=0, portB=0,
enableTE=0, enableTO=0, enableDel=0, numWrite=0, numRead=0):
        """
        Name: U12.asynchConfig(fullA, fullB, fullC, halfA, halfB,
halfC, idNum=None, demo=None, timeoutMult=1, configA=0, configB=0,
configTE=0)
        Args: See section 4.12 of the User's Guide
        Desc: Requires firmware V1.1 or higher. This function writes
to the asynch registers and sets the direction of the D lines (input/
output) as needed.

        >>> dev = U12()
        >>> dev.asynchConfig(96,1,1,22,2,1)
        >>> {'idNum': 1}
        """

        #Check id number
        if idNum is None:
            idNum = self.id
        idNum = ctypes.c_long(idNum)

        # Check size of data
        if len(data) > 18: raise ValueError("data can not be larger
than 18 elements")

        # Make data 18 elements large
        dataArray = [0] * 18
        for i in range(0, len(data)):
            dataArray[i] = data[i]
        print dataArray
        dataArray = listToCArray(dataArray, ctypes.c_long)

        ecode = staticLib.AsynchConfig(ctypes.byref(idNum), demo,
portB, enableTE, enableTO, enableDel, baudrate, numWrite, numRead,
ctypes.byref(dataArray))

        if ecode != 0:print ecode # TODO: Switch this out for
exception

        return {"idnum":long, "data":dataArray}

Here is the method signature of the c function:

long Asynch(	long *idnum,
				long demo,
				long portB,
				long enableTE,
				long enableTO,
				long enableDel,
				long baudrate,
				long numWrite,
				long numRead,
				long *data)

Thank you in advance,
Sam


From labjacksupport at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 18:17:52 2009
From: labjacksupport at gmail.com (LabJack Support)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 15:17:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ValueError: Procedure probably called with not enough arguments 
	(8 bytes missing)
References: eb8393e4-d923-4c27-a98c-1c370522c510@p28g2000vbn.googlegroups.com
Message-ID: <38bd8e73-77cb-49e2-8014-42dad28fc987@d21g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 7, 4:16?pm, LabJack Support  wrote:
> Hello! I am chasing around a problem that I am having with ctypes and
> I am hoping someone can help out. Here is the Python code:
>
> ? ? def asynch(self, baudrate, data, idNum=None, demo=0, portB=0,
> enableTE=0, enableTO=0, enableDel=0, numWrite=0, numRead=0):
> ? ? ? ? """
> ? ? ? ? Name: U12.asynchConfig(fullA, fullB, fullC, halfA, halfB,
> halfC, idNum=None, demo=None, timeoutMult=1, configA=0, configB=0,
> configTE=0)
> ? ? ? ? Args: See section 4.12 of the User's Guide
> ? ? ? ? Desc: Requires firmware V1.1 or higher. This function writes
> to the asynch registers and sets the direction of the D lines (input/
> output) as needed.
>
> ? ? ? ? >>> dev = U12()
> ? ? ? ? >>> dev.asynchConfig(96,1,1,22,2,1)
> ? ? ? ? >>> {'idNum': 1}
> ? ? ? ? """
>
> ? ? ? ? #Check id number
> ? ? ? ? if idNum is None:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? idNum = self.id
> ? ? ? ? idNum = ctypes.c_long(idNum)
>
> ? ? ? ? # Check size of data
> ? ? ? ? if len(data) > 18: raise ValueError("data can not be larger
> than 18 elements")
>
> ? ? ? ? # Make data 18 elements large
> ? ? ? ? dataArray = [0] * 18
> ? ? ? ? for i in range(0, len(data)):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? dataArray[i] = data[i]
> ? ? ? ? print dataArray
> ? ? ? ? dataArray = listToCArray(dataArray, ctypes.c_long)
>
> ? ? ? ? ecode = staticLib.AsynchConfig(ctypes.byref(idNum), demo,
> portB, enableTE, enableTO, enableDel, baudrate, numWrite, numRead,
> ctypes.byref(dataArray))
>
> ? ? ? ? if ecode != 0:print ecode # TODO: Switch this out for
> exception
>
> ? ? ? ? return {"idnum":long, "data":dataArray}
>
> Here is the method signature of the c function:
>
> long Asynch( ? ?long *idnum,
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? long demo,
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? long portB,
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? long enableTE,
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? long enableTO,
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? long enableDel,
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? long baudrate,
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? long numWrite,
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? long numRead,
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? long *data)
>
> Thank you in advance,
> Sam

Whoops I am sorry. The problem was due to a typo.


From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Fri Aug  7 19:04:19 2009
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (Bearophile)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 16:04:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bug or feature: double strings as one
References: 
Message-ID: 

durumdara:
> I wanna ask that is a bug or is it a feature?

For me it's a bug-prone antifeature.

Bye,
bearophile


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 19:40:14 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 16:40:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Why all the __double_underscored_vars__?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 7, 5:13?pm, Chris Rebert  wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 5:51 PM, kj wrote:
> > Python is chock-full of identifiers beginning and ending with double
> > underscores, such as __builtin__, __contains__, and __coerce__.
...(snip)
> Right, but the *users* of the functionality provided by __methods__
...(snip)
> Cheers,
> Chris

Yes and Python's way is by-far the proper way to handle such
functionailty. Don't thank god, thank Guido


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Fri Aug  7 19:46:03 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 16:46:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bug or feature: double strings as one
References: 
	  
	<1de1eadf-6a2a-414c-a7cf-cf235edadcfb@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 8, 3:43?am, alex23  wrote:
> kj  wrote:
> > Feature, as others have pointed out, though I fail to see the need
> > for it, given that Python's general syntax for string (as opposed
> > to string literal) concatenation is already so convenient. ?I.e.,
> > I fail to see why
>
> > x = ("first part of a very long string "
> > ? ? ?"second part of a very long string")
>
> > is so much better than
>
> > x = ("first part of a very long string " +
> > ? ? ?"second part of a very long string")
>
> My impression is it's mostly for one of clarity. It's especially
> useful with regular expressions, as it allows for comments to document
> each element of the regex (following example shamelessly taken from
> the docs (albeit with personal preferences on formatting))):
>
> re.compile(
> ? ? "[A-Za-z_]" ? ? ? # letter or underscore
> ? ? "[A-Za-z0-9_]*" ? # letter, digit or underscore
> )
>
> Not having the plus sign present does assist (IMO) in the ease of
> parsing the regex.
> re.compile(

re.VERBOSE?


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Fri Aug  7 20:03:54 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 02:03:54 +0200
Subject: help with threads
References: <5a744bd6-6b9a-4f46-97c1-bb7fd65b8f4c@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<949b87d5-8cff-444a-b6ba-23d49610d130@p36g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Michael Mossey  (MM) wrote:

>MM> Ah yes, that explains it. Some of these long computations are done in
>MM> pure C, so I'm sure the GIL is not being released.

Is that C code under your own control? Or at least the glue from Python
to C? In that case, and if the C code is not manipulating Python objects
or something in the Python interpreter, it could be changed to release
the GIL during the computation. That's also how Numpy does it, IIRC.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 20:11:01 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 17:11:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bug or feature: double strings as one
References: 
Message-ID: <5ba3a8f0-bdff-4ae7-bff4-abacf559d3a6@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 7, 7:31?am, durumdara  wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I found an interesting thing in Python.
> Today one of my "def"s got wrong result.
...(snip)

I think it's a completely useless feature and i have never used it
even once! This so-called "feature" seems a direct  contridiction to
the zen...

"""There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do
it. """


From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Aug  7 20:31:48 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 02:31:48 +0200
Subject: syntax checker in python
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7e3vblF2ea3orU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

horos11 schrieb:
> ps - I just realized that it isn't enough to do:
> 
> python -c 'import /path/to/script'
> 
> since that actually executes any statement inside of the script
> (wheras all I want to do is check syntax)
> 
> So - let me reprhase that - exactly how can you do a syntax check in
> python? Something like perl's -c:

See pylint & pychecker.

Diez



From rt8396 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 20:33:09 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 17:33:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com> 
	
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro 
	ups.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com> 
	
	 
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com> 
	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<7xk51fgazf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: <0242fc66-2b78-4494-a133-43aff6a86353@p9g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 7, 3:35?pm, Kee Nethery  wrote:
(snip)

Kee,
that was an eloquent and enlighting post and i think it speaks volumes
to the lack of inclusion of all Pythoneers in this community. Not to
mention the viscous attitudes and self indulgence we have around here.

For those of you with ADD, Kee was speaking to the hurdles one must
overcome to change even the most minor things within this community.
Change around here almost parallels an act-of-congress with it's de-
motivating burdens that beset a new python user who may wish to add
his or her 2 pennies to the Python wishing well. And i believe like
Kee, most of them just give up and say
   """Oh Well, F### it!"""

Not to mention the never ending droves of naysayers, bullies, smart-
arses, and egomaniacs with their minions and sock-puppets ready at
moments notice to pounce on (and utterly destroy) any feeble noob who
dares to try and enhance the user experience in Python for all of us.



From nobody at nowhere.com  Fri Aug  7 20:40:51 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 01:40:51 +0100
Subject: Executing untrusted code
References: <137d4d96-c481-4806-a8cf-2904e89c78ae@l35g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 08:15:08 -0700, Emanuele D'Arrigo wrote:

> Are
> there best practices to at least minimize some of the risks associated
> with untrusted code execution?

Yes: don't execute it. Failing that, run the Python interpreter within a
sandbox.

If you want to support restricted execution within a language, it has to
be built into the language from day one. Trying to bolt it on later is a
fool's errand.



From rt8396 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 20:54:40 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 17:54:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bug or feature: double strings as one
References: 
	<5ba3a8f0-bdff-4ae7-bff4-abacf559d3a6@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

It sure doesn't get any more obivous than...
  "string1" + "string2"

Although i much prefer string formatting to concatenation for almost
all cases except the most simple. This auto-magic conacatenation of
strings is unintuitive and completely moronic if you ask my opinion. I
blow chunks when i see this type of code, and the result from it, and
so should my interpretor!
  "string1" "string2" --> syntax error you moron!

If you are wanting to create shortcuts, do them where they make sense
and can serve a useful purpose...

t = ('1' "word" 33.3)
l = [1 2 3 (4 5)]
d = {keyname:value keyname:value etc...}

KISS people!


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Fri Aug  7 21:10:33 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 22:10:33 -0300
Subject: unique-ifying a list
References: 
Message-ID: 

En Fri, 07 Aug 2009 17:53:10 -0300, kj  escribi?:

> Suppose that x is some list.  To produce a version of the list with
> duplicate elements removed one could, I suppose, do this:
>
>     x = list(set(x))
>
> but I expect that this will not preserve the original order of
> elements.
>
> I suppose that I could write something like
>
> def uniquify(items):
>     seen = set()
>     ret = []
>     for i in items:
>         if not i in seen:
>             ret.append(i)
>             seen.add(i)
>     return ret

Assuming the elements are hashable, yes, that's the fastest way (minus
some microoptimizations like using local names for ret.append and
seen.add, or the 'not in' operator).

See bearophile's recipe [1], another one [2] by Tim Peters (quite old but
worths reading the comment section), and this thread [3]

[1] http://code.activestate.com/recipes/438599/
[2] http://code.activestate.com/recipes/52560/
[3] http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/40c6c455f4fd5154/

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Fri Aug  7 21:10:39 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 22:10:39 -0300
Subject: Is "feedparser" deprecated?
References: <4a7c7a8d$0$1661$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: 

En Fri, 07 Aug 2009 16:07:48 -0300, John Nagle 
escribi?:

>    Feedparser requires SGMLlib, which has been removed from Python 3.0.
> Feedparser hasn't been updated since 2007. Does this mean Feedparser
> is dead?

Since we have generic and easy of use XML parsers like ElementTree and
lxml,  specialized rss parsers like feedparser are not so much required.
I've used ElementTree when I had to parse an rss feed in the past (not so
many times).

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Fri Aug  7 21:16:06 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 22:16:06 -0300
Subject: importing fully qualified scripts to check syntax
References: 
Message-ID: 

En Fri, 07 Aug 2009 17:29:28 -0300, horos11  escribi?:

> I'm trying to make a syntax checker, where I say:
>
> python -c "import /path/to/script"
>
> to check the syntax of the script named '/path/to/script' (note: no py
> extension needed). Of course this doesn't work because the
> functionality for import is bundled up with the environment..

Try the py_compile module in the standard library:
http://docs.python.org/library/

The import statement does more than just checking syntax. You may want to  
start the interpreter with the -tt option also.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Aug  7 22:04:58 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 08 Aug 2009 02:04:58 GMT
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
References: 
	
	<2qcrk6-doj.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	
	<028b1ce0$0$5185$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <0006608d$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 12:00:42 +0200, Thorsten Kampe wrote:

> Bollocks. No one will even notice whether a code sequence runs 2.7 or
> 5.7 seconds. That's completely artificial benchmarking.

You think users won't notice a doubling of execution time? Well, that 
explains some of the apps I'm forced to use...

A two-second running time for (say) a command-line tool is already 
noticeable. A five-second one is *very* noticeable -- long enough to be a 
drag, short enough that you aren't tempted to go off and do something 
else while you're waiting for it to finish.


-- 
Steven


From Dave  Fri Aug  7 23:05:20 2009
From: Dave (Dave)
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 22:05:20 -0500
Subject: Windows 7 : any problems installing or running Python ?
Message-ID: 

Anybody tried it ? 
Is anything broken, ie is the whole shootin' match good to go ?
I'm esp interested in WConio for 3.0/3.1 which I use heavily.
Thanks                              Dave     pdlemper at earthlink.net

                               " I saw the number 4 in silver "  Guido
                                   ( apologies to Wm Carlos Williams )


From n179911 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  7 23:29:06 2009
From: n179911 at gmail.com (n179911)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 20:29:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to address a global variable in a function
Message-ID: <82c2f2e7-ed3e-482b-9318-d5539a2a9da8@y10g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

HI,

I have a global variable

// line 8
tx  = 0

and then I have this function (start in line 12):
def handleTranslate(result):
	print line
	txStr, tyStr = result.group(1), result.group(2)
	print txStr, tyStr

	tx += int(txStr)
	ty += int(tyStr)

	return

But I am getting this error:
    handleTranslate(result)
  File "buildsvg.py", line 22, in handleTranslate
    tx += int(txStr)
UnboundLocalError: local variable 'tx' referenced before assignment

How can I fix it?
I have assigned 'tx' to 0 in line 8. I don't understand why i get this
error.

Thank you for any help.



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Aug  7 23:29:43 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 08 Aug 2009 03:29:43 GMT
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
References: 
	
	<2qcrk6-doj.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	
	<028b1ce0$0$5185$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<556b00a3-bbbf-4076-a300-d20839a313c8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <0006746a$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 17:13:07 +0200, Thorsten Kampe wrote:

> One guy claims he has times between 2.7 and 5.7 seconds when
> benchmarking more or less randomly generated "one million different
> lines". That *is* *exactly* nothing.


We agree that in the grand scheme of things, a difference of 2.7 seconds 
versus 5.7 seconds is a trivial difference if your entire program takes 
(say) 8 minutes to run. You won't even notice it.

But why assume that the program takes 8 minutes to run? Perhaps it takes 
8 seconds to run, and 6 seconds of that is the decoding. Then halving 
that reduces the total runtime from 8 seconds to 5, which is a noticeable 
speed increase to the user, and significant if you then run that program 
tens of thousands of times.

The Python dev team spend significant time and effort to get improvements 
of the order of 10%, and you're pooh-poohing an improvement of the order 
of 100%. By all means, reminding people that pre-mature optimization is a 
waste of time, but it's possible to take that attitude too far to Planet 
Bizarro. At the point that you start insisting, and emphasising, that a 
three second time difference is "*exactly*" zero, it seems to me that 
this is about you winning rather than you giving good advice.



-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Aug  7 23:29:59 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 08 Aug 2009 03:29:59 GMT
Subject: PEP 8 exegetics: conditional imports?
References: 
Message-ID: <0006747a$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 16:50:12 +0000, kj wrote:

> I seek the wisdom of the elders.  Is there a consensus on the matter of
> conditional imports?  Are they righteous?  Or are they the way of the
> wicked?

Being an elder doesn't grant you wisdom. It just might mean you've been 
stupid and ignorant for a long time.

For what it's worth, you can take my conditional imports when you've 
pried them from my cold, dead hands.



-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Aug  7 23:31:31 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 08 Aug 2009 03:31:31 GMT
Subject: Bug or feature: double strings as one
References: 
	 
Message-ID: <000674d6$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 17:35:28 +0000, kj wrote:

> I fail to see why
> 
> x = ("first part of a very long string "
>      "second part of a very long string")

That's done by the compiler at compile time and is fast.

> is so much better than
> 
> x = ("first part of a very long string " +
>      "second part of a very long string")

That's done by the Python virtual machine at runtime and creates two 
strings, then passes them to a method, which creates a third string, then 
(usually) disposes of the first two strings.

Except for some versions of the CPython implementation, which has a 
keyhole compiler which folds constants at runtime. But it's a simple 
optimizer, easy to defeat:

>>> import dis
>>> dis.dis(compile("s = ''; s + 'a' + 'b'", '', 'exec'))
  1           0 LOAD_CONST               0 ('')
              3 STORE_NAME               0 (s)
              6 LOAD_NAME                0 (s)
              9 LOAD_CONST               1 ('a')
             12 BINARY_ADD
             13 LOAD_CONST               2 ('b')
             16 BINARY_ADD
             17 POP_TOP
             18 LOAD_CONST               3 (None)
             21 RETURN_VALUE
>>>
>>> dis.dis(compile("s = ''; s + 'a' 'b'", '', 'exec'))
  1           0 LOAD_CONST               0 ('')
              3 STORE_NAME               0 (s)
              6 LOAD_NAME                0 (s)
              9 LOAD_CONST               1 ('ab')
             12 BINARY_ADD
             13 POP_TOP
             14 LOAD_CONST               2 (None)
             17 RETURN_VALUE



-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Aug  7 23:31:46 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 08 Aug 2009 03:31:46 GMT
Subject: how to overload operator "< <" (a < x < b)?
References: <53eb4291-9a78-489a-9a5d-396ec8a9c2af@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <000674e5$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 08:04:22 -0700, Scott David Daniels wrote:

> Benjamin Kaplan wrote:
>> .... Python does not support compound comparisons like that. You have
>> to do "a > b and b > c".
> 
> Funny, my python does.  This has been around a long time. I am not
> certain whether 1.5.2 did it, but "chained comparisons" have been around
> for a long time.

Yes it does:

$ python1.5
Python 1.5.2 (#1, Apr  1 2009, 22:55:54)  [GCC 4.1.2 20070925 (Red Hat 
4.1.2-27)] on linux2
Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam
>>>
>>> 2 < 3 < 4
1


Remembering that back then, 0 and 1 were used instead of False and True.


-- 
Steven


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 00:01:47 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 21:01:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: how to overload operator "< <" (a < x < b)?
References: <53eb4291-9a78-489a-9a5d-396ec8a9c2af@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<7e2regF2eqbabU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <429efe93-afd0-4d46-973c-0df0d4f42c0c@p9g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 7, 7:18?am, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
> alex23 schrieb:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 7, 10:50 pm, Benjamin Kaplan  wrote:
> >> That isn't an operator at all. Python does not support compound
> >> comparisons like that. You have to do "a > b and b > c".
>
> > You know, it costs nothing to open up a python interpreter and check
> > your certainty:
>
> >>>> x = 10
> >>>> 1 < x < 20
> > True
>
> > This is a _very_ common pattern.
>
> >>>> class X(object):
> > ... ? def __lt__(self, other):
> > ... ? ? print 'in lt'
> > ... ? ? return True
> > ... ? def __gt__(self, other):
> > ... ? ? print 'in gt'
> > ... ? ? return True
> > ...
> >>>> x = X()
> >>>> 1 < x < 20
> > in gt
> > in lt
> > True
> >>>> 20 < x < 1
> > in gt
> > in lt
> > True
>
> > dmitrey: Diez' advice was the best you received.
>
> Not really. I didn't get the chaining, and Peter is right that for that
> there is no real overloading.

You can program __lt__, __gt__, and friends to return a closure with a
boolean value.  See my upcoming reply to the author.


Carl Banks


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 00:10:35 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 21:10:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: how to overload operator "< <" (a < x < b)?
References: <53eb4291-9a78-489a-9a5d-396ec8a9c2af@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<7e2regF2eqbabU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<429efe93-afd0-4d46-973c-0df0d4f42c0c@p9g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <241f44f0-cd5c-48cd-a5ac-7a51954809fe@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 7, 9:01?pm, Carl Banks  wrote:
> On Aug 7, 7:18?am, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > alex23 schrieb:
>
> > > On Aug 7, 10:50 pm, Benjamin Kaplan  wrote:
> > >> That isn't an operator at all. Python does not support compound
> > >> comparisons like that. You have to do "a > b and b > c".
>
> > > You know, it costs nothing to open up a python interpreter and check
> > > your certainty:
>
> > >>>> x = 10
> > >>>> 1 < x < 20
> > > True
>
> > > This is a _very_ common pattern.
>
> > >>>> class X(object):
> > > ... ? def __lt__(self, other):
> > > ... ? ? print 'in lt'
> > > ... ? ? return True
> > > ... ? def __gt__(self, other):
> > > ... ? ? print 'in gt'
> > > ... ? ? return True
> > > ...
> > >>>> x = X()
> > >>>> 1 < x < 20
> > > in gt
> > > in lt
> > > True
> > >>>> 20 < x < 1
> > > in gt
> > > in lt
> > > True
>
> > > dmitrey: Diez' advice was the best you received.
>
> > Not really. I didn't get the chaining, and Peter is right that for that
> > there is no real overloading.
>
> You can program __lt__, __gt__, and friends to return a closure with a
> boolean value. ?See my upcoming reply to the author.

Actually, scratch that.  It won't work because the chained comparison
short-circuits.  If you have __lt__ return a closure then a < b won't
work unless a < b is always true, which means it'll cause ordinary
binary comparison to fail.  Oh well.


Carl Banks


From n179911 at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 00:14:37 2009
From: n179911 at gmail.com (n179911)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 21:14:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to address a global variable in a function
References: <82c2f2e7-ed3e-482b-9318-d5539a2a9da8@y10g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 7, 8:29?pm, n179911  wrote:
> HI,
>
> I have a global variable
>
> // line 8
> tx ?= 0
>
> and then I have this function (start in line 12):
> def handleTranslate(result):
> ? ? ? ? print line
> ? ? ? ? txStr, tyStr = result.group(1), result.group(2)
> ? ? ? ? print txStr, tyStr
>
> ? ? ? ? tx += int(txStr)
> ? ? ? ? ty += int(tyStr)
>
> ? ? ? ? return
>
> But I am getting this error:
> ? ? handleTranslate(result)
> ? File "buildsvg.py", line 22, in handleTranslate
> ? ? tx += int(txStr)
> UnboundLocalError: local variable 'tx' referenced before assignment
>
> How can I fix it?
> I have assigned 'tx' to 0 in line 8. I don't understand why i get this
> error.
>
> Thank you for any help.

I figure out my problem

put this in my function:
global tx


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sat Aug  8 00:14:58 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 00:14:58 -0400
Subject: How to address a global variable in a function
In-Reply-To: <82c2f2e7-ed3e-482b-9318-d5539a2a9da8@y10g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
References: <82c2f2e7-ed3e-482b-9318-d5539a2a9da8@y10g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908072114y2676738fm48461973a03e472b@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 11:29 PM, n179911 wrote:
> HI,
>
> I have a global variable
>
> // line 8
> tx ?= 0
>
> and then I have this function (start in line 12):
> def handleTranslate(result):
> ? ? ? ?print line
> ? ? ? ?txStr, tyStr = result.group(1), result.group(2)
> ? ? ? ?print txStr, tyStr
>
> ? ? ? ?tx += int(txStr)
> ? ? ? ?ty += int(tyStr)
>
> ? ? ? ?return
>
> But I am getting this error:
> ? ?handleTranslate(result)
> ?File "buildsvg.py", line 22, in handleTranslate
> ? ?tx += int(txStr)
> UnboundLocalError: local variable 'tx' referenced before assignment
>
> How can I fix it?
> I have assigned 'tx' to 0 in line 8. I don't understand why i get this
> error.

By default, Python assumes that any variables assigned to in a
function are local variables. To change this assumption, you need to
declare that you want to reference a global variable. This is done by
putting a `global` statement at the start of the function (i.e.
`global tx`).

In the future, you might STFW (in this case, for "UnboundLocalError")
before posting to the newsgroup, as you would have found several
explanations of this common newbie-biter.

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Aug  8 00:25:31 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 08 Aug 2009 04:25:31 GMT
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro
	ups.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<7xk51fgazf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: <0006817d$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 13:35:26 -0700, Kee Nethery wrote:


> > Why exactly is posting an open comment on a bug tracker somehow
> > inferior to posting an open comment on a wiki?
> 
> It's a good question and deserves a good answer.
> 
> * Fewer Steps
> * Immediate
> * Does not need to be formally reviewed
> * Easier to search

The last one is actually wrong, because the Python bug tracker is indexed 
by Google.

As for the rest, you're right that the current bug-tracker puts up 
barriers to people submitting comments and bugs. That's actually a good 
thing. The only thing worse than not enough information is too much 
information, and the current situation does a good job of discouraging 
the sorts of people who submit bad bug reports (e.g. duplicates of bug 
reports, bug reports for things fixed years ago, bug reports that are due 
to mistakes in their code, etc.).


> For example  
> purposes, I'll use the following page:
> http://docs.python.org/reference/lexical_analysis.html
> Lets say the user is in section 2.1.3 Comments

Disclaimer: python.org is down at the moment, so I can't check that page 
to see precisely what you're talking about.


> Here's the scenario: The user wanted to include "#" in one of their
> strings and the IDE kept interpreting it as a comment. But they really
> need to use that character in the string. Eventually they find out that
> they can escape the character in their string so that Python stops
> thinking it is the beginning of a comment.

Er, that would be a bug in the IDE, surely? Inside strings, # is an 
ordinary character with no special meaning.


>>> s = "this is a string with an unescaped # in it"
>>> s
'this is a string with an unescaped # in it'


The Python docs are supposed to be about Python the language, not work-
arounds for IDE bugs.


[...]
> Lets assume that Python experts all agree that  
> the docs should get updated with this gotcha (which as a newbie, they  
> are not sure that is a valid assumption and would probably just halt  
> in their quest to get the docs updated).

Good.

As a newbie, you SHOULD assume that anything you think is a bug is 
probably a bug in YOUR code, not Python, and the same goes for 
documentation bugs. If you don't understand something in the docs, 
chances are that it's a problem with you, not the docs. Your first port 
of call should be the tutor list, or here, and not to "fix" the docs by 
putting in noise that just gets in the way of the intended audience, 
namely experienced developers.


> and there is zero confidence that as a newbie, anyone cares about what  
> they found confusing, after all, they are just a newbie and not worthy  
> of altering the documentation. (Certainly that opinion has been  
> expressed several times on this mailing list).

No, we care. We just don't want to have the docs filled with all the hand-
holding and introductory stuff which the newbie needs. As a developer, 
you will outgrow the need for training wheels. Why force training wheels 
on the docs that you will be referring to for your entire career as a 
programmer, when you only need them for the first few months? There are 
plenty of docs aimed at newbies, and mailing lists where you can ask 
questions.

Putting user-comments on a separate page separates the noisy, low-value 
comments from the good stuff, but it increases the efforts needed by the 
webpage admin (who is going to deal with the comment spam? who is going 
to go through the user-comments stripping out the total nonsense put in 
by helpful ignoramuses?). It works for Wikipedia, because there are tens 
of thousands of users contributing small amounts of effort, and hundreds 
putting in a lot of effort, but even there there is a major problem with 
vandalism. We don't have those resources.

By the way, if a person wants to contribute, and can demonstrate 
competence, reliability, good-sense and trustworthiness, there's no 
reason why he or she couldn't get a check-in account for the Python docs. 
(All the Python docs are written by volunteers.) A good way to 
demonstrate these things is by submitting good-quality doc improvements 
to the bug-tracker. If a person can't be bothered to do so, because it 
requires effort to get an account, that goes a long way to demonstrating 
the *lack* of reliability which will disqualify them from the job.


> Very few people would think to search the bug tracking system for help  
> with some specific function. If someone is having trouble with the #  
> sign in their strings, the bug tracking system is not going to be at  
> the top of their list for search locations, especially when the bug  
> tracking system is not mentioned and when found requires a confirmed  
> login.

You don't need a login to view bug reports, only to modify them.

If you want an open-access documentation system go right ahead and build 
one. There are plenty of wikis available to use, and the Python docs are 
freely available as your starting point. I might even contribute myself. 
I just don't want it mixed in with the official docs: I want a clear 
separation between what's officially sanctioned and what's not.


-- 
Steven


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 00:46:51 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 21:46:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com> 
	
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro 
	ups.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com> 
	
	 
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com> 
	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<7xk51fgazf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
	
	
	
	<0006817d$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 7, 9:25?pm, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
> If you want an open-access documentation system go right ahead and build
> one. There are plenty of wikis available to use, and the Python docs are
> freely available as your starting point. I might even contribute myself.
> I just don't want it mixed in with the official docs: I want a clear
> separation between what's officially sanctioned and what's not.

The PyGame documentation has a "Click to view comments" box.  That
would be A. low profile, and B. distinct from official documentation
enough for me.

It'd probably be useful, but might also attract spam and lots of
useless fluff, because it's likely to be much higher volume than
documentation on other projects.


Carl Banks


From http  Sat Aug  8 01:06:23 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 07 Aug 2009 22:06:23 -0700
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro
	ups.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<7xk51fgazf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
	
	
	
	<0006817d$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <7xd476rj1s.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Steven D'Aprano  writes:
> As for the rest, you're right that the current bug-tracker puts up 
> barriers to people submitting comments and bugs. That's actually a good 
> thing. The only thing worse than not enough information is too much 
> information, and the current situation does a good job of discouraging 
> the sorts of people who submit bad bug reports (e.g. duplicates of bug 
> reports, bug reports for things fixed years ago, bug reports that are due 
> to mistakes in their code, etc.).

Stephen, Alex, etc.: have you actually used the php.net doc system?
Don't knock it til you've tried it.  IMO it is superior to Python's
system.  I don't use PHP much these days.


From http  Sat Aug  8 01:09:23 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 07 Aug 2009 22:09:23 -0700
Subject: question: why isn't a byte of a hash more uniform? how could I
	improve my code to cure that?
References: 
	
Message-ID: <7x8whuriws.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

L?szl? S?ndor  writes:
> OK, I understand. Could anyone suggest a better way to do this, then?
> 
> (Recap: random-looking, close-to uniform assignment of one number out
> of four possibilities to strings.)

Use a cryptographic hash function like md5 (deprecated for security
purposes but should be ok for this application).  The built-in Python
hash function is made for hashing symbols and is designed to avoid
collisions when you have a bunch of sequential identifiers (a,b,c...).
That is, it deliberately does NOT resemble a random function, which
would have a certain number of collisions by chance.


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 01:10:32 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 22:10:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bug or feature: double strings as one
References: 
	  
	<000674d6$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <14b5efce-e0b8-4455-ba9e-43b4b0df5e20@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 7, 10:31?pm, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
...(snip excessive showmanship) :-)

Ah Steven thats a real nice "snappy comeback" and some may get blinded
by the "black magic" but basically all you are saying is that "version
a" takes less overhead than "version b", compilation wise... but let's
dig a little deeper shall we?

First of all, i don't know about you but i don't set around all day
hard coding string data into my programs so the nano second difference
gained between auto-magic-string-concatination and "s1"+"s2"+"sN"
really doesn't justify a feature(bug??) like this that breaks the Zen
wide open. Sadly all it serves is to confuse new comers and contribute
line noise to the tutorial -- of which there is too much already!

Sure it's a nice parlor trick, but not much more...

Q: Steven, how often do you actually use this feature, i mean *really*
use it?


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 01:50:24 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 22:50:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bug or feature: double strings as one
References: 
	
	<5Y2dnfnYAdsl0-HXnZ2dnUVZ_j9i4p2d@pdx.net> 
	
Message-ID: <8723453a-2836-4e9b-ac98-1fc4886da074@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 7, 10:00?am, Grant Edwards  wrote:
> On 2009-08-07, Scott David Daniels  wrote:
>
> > Grant Edwards wrote:
> >> On 2009-08-07, durumdara  wrote:
> >>> In other languages, like Delphi (Pascal), Javascript, SQL, etc., I
> >>> must concatenate the strings with some sign, like "+" or "||".
>
> >> In other languages like Ruby, awk, C, C++, etc. adjacent string
> >> constants are concatenated.
>
> > I must learn this "etc." language, I hear it mentioned all the time :-)
>
> Definitely. ?Not only does it have _all_ the features, it even
> manages to simultaneously have several mutually-exclusive
> features.

http://www.geocities.com/connorbd/tarpit/magentaaarm.html


(It's on Geocities, yikes, someone better archive that....)

Carl Banks


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 01:52:19 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 22:52:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Windows 7 : any problems installing or running Python ?
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 7, 10:05?pm, Dave WB3DWE wrote:
...(snip)

Oh God, windows 7 is here :(.  What great functionality has M$
bestowed on the weary peasants now? More importantly why the heck am i
still using windows in 2009? i think i will dump my winders os for
good this year and go linux from here on out (can i get a hell yea?).
Sorry Dave i don't think i'll ever try windows 7 but i hope you find a
solution because i do want you to use Python.

Oh and Google, the masses are ready for the windows replacement....
Google? ....Goooooooogle!!!



From rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm  Sat Aug  8 02:39:49 2009
From: rschroev_nospam_ml at fastmail.fm (Roel Schroeven)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 08:39:49 +0200
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
In-Reply-To: <7xd476rj1s.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: 
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro
	ups.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<7xk51fgazf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
	
	
	
	<0006817d$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<7xd476rj1s.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: 

Paul Rubin schreef:
> Steven D'Aprano  writes:
>> As for the rest, you're right that the current bug-tracker puts up 
>> barriers to people submitting comments and bugs. That's actually a good 
>> thing. The only thing worse than not enough information is too much 
>> information, and the current situation does a good job of discouraging 
>> the sorts of people who submit bad bug reports (e.g. duplicates of bug 
>> reports, bug reports for things fixed years ago, bug reports that are due 
>> to mistakes in their code, etc.).
> 
> Stephen, Alex, etc.: have you actually used the php.net doc system?
> Don't knock it til you've tried it.  IMO it is superior to Python's
> system.  I don't use PHP much these days.

I have to use PHP from time to time, in which cases I often have to use
the manual on php.net. I don't like it at all.

The official documentation is often incomplete, leaving out the details
I need and forcing me to read the comments.

Which I don't want to do, since many comments show a lack of
understanding of the subject matter. I have to read all of them, trying
to find out which ones are correct and which ones are wrong (or
misleading) to get the complete picture.


I like Python's documentation, where I can be confident that the
documentation is correct (except in the case of the very exceptional
bug) and mostly clear, much better.

-- 
The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge
faster than society gathers wisdom.
  -- Isaac Asimov

Roel Schroeven


From koranthala at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 03:26:50 2009
From: koranthala at gmail.com (koranthala)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 00:26:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	
	
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	 
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro ups.com> 
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	 
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <40ed2690-3c6d-4413-a8a9-6bce7a304077@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 7, 5:15?pm, Dave Angel  wrote:
> alex23 wrote:
> > Paul Rubin  wrote:
>
> >> The PHP docs as I remember are sort of regular (non-publically
> >> editable) doc pages, each of which has a public discussion thread
> >> where people can post questions and answers about the topic of that
> >> doc page. ?I thought it worked really well. ?The main thing is that
> >> the good stuff from the comment section gets folded into the actual
> >> doc now and then.
>
> > I'd still like to see this kept out of the official docs as much as
> > possible, mostly for reasons of brevity & clarity. I think the
> > official docs should be considered definitive and not require a
> > hermeneutic evaluation against user comments to ensure they're still
> > correct...
>
> > How about a secondary site that embeds the docs and provides
> > commenting functionality around it? That's certainly a finitely scoped
> > project that those with issues about the docs could establish and
> > contribute to, with the possibility of it gaining official support
> > later once it gains traction.
>
> I share your concern about unmonitored comments. ?However, it seems a
> useful possibility would be for the "official" pages to each have
> specially-marked links that possibly lead to such user comments. ?
> Clearly they'd have to marked carefully, so that naive users don't
> confuse the two. ?But otherwise, it feels like a good idea.
>
> In my case, I usually access the docs via the Windows help file. ?So
> it'd be quite easy for me to recognize that once I've gotten to a
> browser page, I'm not in Kansas any more. ?But that could be also
> accomplished by having a very different stylesheet for the user comments
> page.
>
> DaveA

The best example that I have seen is djangobook.
The comment system in it is quite exquisite.
It would be good for the Python docs to have such a mechanism.


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 03:30:06 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 00:30:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: syntax checker in python
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 7, 1:39?pm, horos11  wrote:
> ps - I just realized that it isn't enough to do:
>
> python -c 'import /path/to/script'
>
> since that actually executes any statement inside of the script
> (wheras all I want to do is check syntax)
>
> So - let me reprhase that - exactly how can you do a syntax check in
> python? Something like perl's -c:
>
> ? ? ?perl -c script_name.p

A quick and dirty way would be to use the py_compile:

python -m py_compile /path/to/script

Warning: this simply appends "c" to the filename and writes out the
compiled file (kind of dumb behavior, actually), so if it's a script
you probably want to delete it afterwards:

python -m py_compile /path/to/script ; rm -f /path/to/scriptc


A little better might be to write a little Python helper script that
directs output to nowhere (something like this, feel free to
embellish):

import py_compile
py_compile.compile(sys.argv[1],'/dev/null',None,False)



Carl Banks


From dmitrey.kroshko at scipy.org  Sat Aug  8 04:50:27 2009
From: dmitrey.kroshko at scipy.org (dmitrey)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 01:50:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: is it possible to overload operator "^"?
Message-ID: <89523a6b-c609-4b3f-9f01-4aa219dfd916@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>

hi all,
is it possible to overload operator "^"? (AFAIK __pow__ overloads **
instead of ^)
Thank you in advance, D.


From efotinis at y  Sat Aug  8 04:53:28 2009
From: efotinis at y (Elias Fotinis (eliasf))
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 11:53:28 +0300
Subject: unique-ifying a list
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <1249721637.162236@athprx03>

"kj" wrote:
> I suppose that I could write something like
>
> def uniquify(items):
>    seen = set()
>    ret = []
>    for i in items:
>        if not i in seen:
>            ret.append(i)
>            seen.add(i)
>    return ret
>
> But this seems to me like such a commonly needed operation that I
> find it hard to believe one would need to resort to such self-rolled
> solutions.  Isn't there some more standard (and hopefully more
> efficient, as in "C-coded"/built-in) approach?

The most "standard" way is a recipe from the itertools docs (I'd give a 
link, but python.org is down at the moment):

    def unique_everseen(iterable, key=None):
        "List unique elements, preserving order. Remember all elements ever 
seen."
        # unique_everseen('AAAABBBCCDAABBB') --> A B C D
        # unique_everseen('ABBCcAD', str.lower) --> A B C D
        seen = set()
        seen_add = seen.add
        if key is None:
            for element in iterable:
                if element not in seen:
                    seen_add(element)
                    yield element
        else:
            for element in iterable:
                k = key(element)
                if k not in seen:
                    seen_add(k)
                    yield element

All the recipes mentioned there are pretty handy, so I've made a module 
(iterutil.py) out of them.



From gherron at islandtraining.com  Sat Aug  8 05:02:19 2009
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 02:02:19 -0700
Subject: is it possible to overload operator "^"?
In-Reply-To: <89523a6b-c609-4b3f-9f01-4aa219dfd916@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
References: <89523a6b-c609-4b3f-9f01-4aa219dfd916@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A7D3F1B.5070100@islandtraining.com>

dmitrey wrote:
> hi all,
> is it possible to overload operator "^"? (AFAIK __pow__ overloads **
> instead of ^)
> Thank you in advance, D.
>   

The ^ operator is not an exponentiation, but rather the xor operator.  
Thus you can override it with the __xor__ method.

Beware, if you are thinking of ^ as an exponentiation like operator, the 
operator precedence will seem wrong.



From deets at nospam.web.de  Sat Aug  8 05:06:13 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 11:06:13 +0200
Subject: is it possible to overload operator "^"?
In-Reply-To: <89523a6b-c609-4b3f-9f01-4aa219dfd916@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
References: <89523a6b-c609-4b3f-9f01-4aa219dfd916@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7e4tg5F2eirarU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

dmitrey schrieb:
> hi all,
> is it possible to overload operator "^"? (AFAIK __pow__ overloads **
> instead of ^)
> Thank you in advance, D.

Did you read the link I gave you for your last question?

It shows __xor__ as special method.

Diez


From efotinis at y  Sat Aug  8 05:44:16 2009
From: efotinis at y (Elias Fotinis (eliasf))
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 12:44:16 +0300
Subject: Pywin32 @ windows 7
In-Reply-To: 
References: <004a01ca1733$a9768c10$4605a8c0@btsc1>
	
Message-ID: <1249724885.215365@athprx03>

"Dennis Lee Bieber" wrote:
> Ever consider that the name has WIN32 in, and not WIN64, for a
> reason?

Win32 is a misnomer; it just means "non-Win16". The same API exists in 
Windows x64 (with pointers expanded to 64-bit, of course). 



From efotinis at y  Sat Aug  8 05:46:59 2009
From: efotinis at y (Elias Fotinis (eliasf))
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 12:46:59 +0300
Subject: Pywin32 @ windows 7
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <1249724885.744992@athprx03>

"Algirdas Brazas" wrote:
> Did anyone manage to get windows extensions installet on windows 7 64 bit?
> As far as I try I get only "Setup program invalid or damaged".

Try downloading the installer again. It should work then.

I haven't tested it on Win7, but my Vista machine has Python and pywin32 
x64. 



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Aug  8 06:01:55 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 11:01:55 +0100
Subject: Bug or feature: double strings as one
In-Reply-To: 
References: 		<5Y2dnfnYAdsl0-HXnZ2dnUVZ_j9i4p2d@pdx.net>
	
Message-ID: 

Unknown wrote:
> On 2009-08-07, Scott David Daniels  wrote:
>> Grant Edwards wrote:
>>> On 2009-08-07, durumdara  wrote:
>>>> In other languages, like Delphi (Pascal), Javascript, SQL, etc., I
>>>> must concatenate the strings with some sign, like "+" or "||".
>>> In other languages like Ruby, awk, C, C++, etc. adjacent string
>>> constants are concatenated.
>> I must learn this "etc." language, I hear it mentioned all the time :-)
> 
> Definitely.  Not only does it have _all_ the features, it even
> manages to simultaneously have several mutually-exclusive
> features.
> 
I have tried google for this "etc." language but failed dismally.  Does 
it belong here? http://www.thefreecountry.com/compilers/esoteric.shtml

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From efotinis at y  Sat Aug  8 06:02:45 2009
From: efotinis at y (Elias Fotinis (eliasf))
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 13:02:45 +0300
Subject: Bug or feature: double strings as one
In-Reply-To: <8723453a-2836-4e9b-ac98-1fc4886da074@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	<5Y2dnfnYAdsl0-HXnZ2dnUVZ_j9i4p2d@pdx.net>
	
	<8723453a-2836-4e9b-ac98-1fc4886da074@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1249725805.853806@athprx03>

"Carl Banks" wrote:
> http://www.geocities.com/connorbd/tarpit/magentaaarm.html
> (It's on Geocities, yikes, someone better archive that....)

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.geocities.com/connorbd/tarpit/magentaaarm.html

:)



From dmitrey.kroshko at scipy.org  Sat Aug  8 06:04:11 2009
From: dmitrey.kroshko at scipy.org (dmitrey)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 03:04:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: is it possible to overload operator "^"?
References: <89523a6b-c609-4b3f-9f01-4aa219dfd916@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<7e4tg5F2eirarU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: 

> the operator precedence will seem wrong
So, are there any ways to change operator precedence (for my class)?

To Diez:
yes, but I haven't paid attention to xor. BTW the url is currently
unavailable (Network Timeout. The server at docs.python.org is taking
too long to respond.).

On Aug 8, 12:06 pm, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
> Did you read the link I gave you for your last question?
> It shows __xor__ as special method.
> Diez


From deets at nospam.web.de  Sat Aug  8 06:08:20 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 12:08:20 +0200
Subject: is it possible to overload operator "^"?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <89523a6b-c609-4b3f-9f01-4aa219dfd916@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<7e4tg5F2eirarU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
Message-ID: <7e514kF2ekgqfU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

dmitrey schrieb:
>> the operator precedence will seem wrong
> So, are there any ways to change operator precedence (for my class)?

No. Those are built-in.

Diez 
 
 


From enleverLesX_XXmcX at XmclavXeauX.com  Sat Aug  8 06:39:14 2009
From: enleverLesX_XXmcX at XmclavXeauX.com (Michel Claveau - MVP)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 12:39:14 +0200
Subject: Windows 7 : any problems installing or running Python ?
References: 
Message-ID: <4a7d55d4$0$12642$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr>

Hi! 

I use, all days, Python 2.6 + Pywin32 on Win-7-64 bits. Without problem
(I confirm : pywin 32 on 64 bits).

@-salutations
-- 
Michel Claveau 


From rylesny at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 06:58:03 2009
From: rylesny at gmail.com (ryles)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 03:58:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: unique-ifying a list
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 7, 4:53?pm, kj  wrote:
> Suppose that x is some list. ?To produce a version of the list with
> duplicate elements removed one could, I suppose, do this:
>
> ? ? x = list(set(x))
>
> but I expect that this will not preserve the original order of
> elements.
>

OrderedSet is most likely on the way, but for now Python 3.1 and 2.7
have OrderedDict. For 3.0 and 2.6 the recipe is here:

http://code.activestate.com/recipes/576669

With OrderedDict you can do:

OrderedDict.fromkeys(x).keys()  # Returns an iterator in 3.x, a list
in 2.x.


From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Sat Aug  8 07:16:12 2009
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 13:16:12 +0200
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
References: 
	
	<2qcrk6-doj.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	
	<028b1ce0$0$5185$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<556b00a3-bbbf-4076-a300-d20839a313c8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<0006746a$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

* Steven D'Aprano (08 Aug 2009 03:29:43 GMT)
> On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 17:13:07 +0200, Thorsten Kampe wrote:
> > One guy claims he has times between 2.7 and 5.7 seconds when
> > benchmarking more or less randomly generated "one million different
> > lines". That *is* *exactly* nothing.
> 
> We agree that in the grand scheme of things, a difference of 2.7 seconds 
> versus 5.7 seconds is a trivial difference if your entire program takes 
> (say) 8 minutes to run. You won't even notice it.

Exactly.

> But why assume that the program takes 8 minutes to run? Perhaps it takes 
> 8 seconds to run, and 6 seconds of that is the decoding. Then halving 
> that reduces the total runtime from 8 seconds to 5, which is a noticeable 
> speed increase to the user, and significant if you then run that program 
> tens of thousands of times.

Exactly. That's why it doesn't make sense to benchmark decode()/unicode
() isolated - meaning out of the context of your actual program.

> By all means, reminding people that pre-mature optimization is a 
> waste of time, but it's possible to take that attitude too far to Planet 
> Bizarro. At the point that you start insisting, and emphasising, that a 
> three second time difference is "*exactly*" zero,

Exactly. Because it was not generated in a real world use case but by 
running a simple loop one millions times. Why one million times? Because 
by running it "only" one hundred thousand times the difference would 
have seen even less relevant.

> it seems to me that this is about you winning rather than you giving
> good advice.

I already gave good advice:
1. don't benchmark
2. don't benchmark until you have an actual performance issue
3. if you benchmark then the whole application and not single commands

It's really easy: Michael has working code. With that he can easily 
write two versions - one that uses decode() and one that uses unicode(). 
He can benchmark these with some real world input he often uses by 
running it a hundred or a thousand times (even a million if he likes). 
Then he can compare the results. I doubt that there will be any 
noticeable difference.

Thorsten


From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Aug  8 07:38:13 2009
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 04:38:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ANN: gnupg v0.2.1 released
Message-ID: 

A new version of the Python module which wraps GnuPG has been
released.

What Changed?
=============
This is a minor bug-fix release. See the project website (
http://code.google.com/p/python-gnupg/ ) for more information.

The current version passes all tests on Windows (Python 2.4, 2.5, 2.6,
3.1, Jython 2.5.0) and Ubuntu (Python 2.4, 2.5, 2.6, 3.0, Jython
2.5.0).

What Does It Do?
================
The gnupg module allows Python programs to make use of the
functionality provided by the Gnu Privacy Guard (abbreviated GPG or
GnuPG). Using this module, Python programs can encrypt and decrypt
data, digitally sign documents and verify digital signatures, manage
(generate, list and delete) encryption keys, using proven Public Key
Infrastructure (PKI) encryption technology based on OpenPGP.

This module is expected to be used with Python versions >= 2.4, as it
makes use of the subprocess module which appeared in that version of
Python. This module is a newer version derived from earlier work by
Andrew Kuchling, Richard Jones and Steve Traugott.

A test suite using unittest is included with the source distribution.

Simple usage:

>>> import gnupg
>>> gpg = gnupg.GPG(gnupghome='/path/to/keyring/directory')
>>> gpg.list_keys()
[{
  ...
  'fingerprint': 'F819EE7705497D73E3CCEE65197D5DAC68F1AAB2',
  'keyid': '197D5DAC68F1AAB2',
  'length': '1024',
  'type': 'pub',
  'uids': ['', 'Gary Gross (A test user) ']},
 {
  ...
  'fingerprint': '37F24DD4B918CC264D4F31D60C5FEFA7A921FC4A',
  'keyid': '0C5FEFA7A921FC4A',
  'length': '1024',
  ...
  'uids': ['', 'Danny Davis (A test user) ']}]
>>> encrypted = gpg.encrypt("Hello, world!", ['0C5FEFA7A921FC4A'])
>>> str(encrypted)
'-----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE-----\nVersion: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)\n
\nhQIOA/6NHMDTXUwcEAf
...
-----END PGP MESSAGE-----\n'
>>> decrypted = gpg.decrypt(str(encrypted), passphrase='secret')
>>> str(decrypted)
'Hello, world!'
>>> signed = gpg.sign("Goodbye, world!", passphrase='secret')
>>> verified = verified = gpg.verify(str(signed))
>>> print "Verified" if verified else "Not verified"
'Verified'

For more information, visit http://code.google.com/p/python-gnupg/ -
as always, your feedback is most welcome (especially bug reports,
patches and suggestions for improvement). Enjoy!

Cheers

Vinay Sajip
Red Dove Consultants Ltd.


From kushal.kumaran+python at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 07:47:50 2009
From: kushal.kumaran+python at gmail.com (Kushal Kumaran)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 17:17:50 +0530
Subject: Database query execution times in Python?
In-Reply-To: <24870050.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <24870050.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <1e364c4e0908080447s1496e40bkbf60f80020be863b@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 12:12 AM, pwnedd wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I've been writing some code using libraries based on the Python Database API
> 2.0 (MySQLdb & pg), and so far things are working really well. There is one
> thing that I have not been able to figure out how to do, however:
>
> Retrieve the time is took a given query to execute.
>
> Does anyone know if this is possible?
>

If nothing else, you could always use the time.time() function for
timing sections of code.  This will also include the time it took to
transport the result from the database to your application, though.

-- 
kushal


From no.email at please.post  Sat Aug  8 08:11:19 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 12:11:19 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Why all the __double_underscored_vars__?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

In  Chris Rebert  writes:

>The double-underscores indicate that the Python interpreter itself
>usually is the caller of the method, and as such some level of "magic"
>may be associated with it. Other languages have you do the equivalent
>of `def +():` or `def operator +()` to override an operator, the
>keyword or symbol serving a similar warning that "here be magic".

In this case, then I hope that some of these __items__ get demoted
to a more mundane level, so that the notion of "magic" doesn't get
trivialized by everyday idioms like:

if __name__ == '__main__':
    # etc

There are a few in this category...  I figure that they are cases
of "atavistic magic".

I bring this up because I find it quite difficult to explain to my
students (who are complete newcomers to programming) all the
__underscored__ stuff that even rank noobs like them have to deal
with.  (Trust me, to most of them your reply to my post would be
as clear as mud.)  This suggests to me that there's something a
bit unnatural about some of these __items__.

Anyway, thanks for your post.  I see your point.

kynn


From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Sat Aug  8 08:19:44 2009
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 14:19:44 +0200
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
References: 
	
	<2qcrk6-doj.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	
	<028b1ce0$0$5185$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<556b00a3-bbbf-4076-a300-d20839a313c8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<006e7808-74e7-4d29-a7bc-01492d14de65@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

* alex23 (Fri, 7 Aug 2009 10:45:29 -0700 (PDT))
> garabik-news-2005... at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk wrote:
> > I am not sure I understood that. Must be my English :-)
> 
> I just parsed it as "blah blah blah I won't admit I'm wrong" and
> didn't miss anything substantive.

Alex, there are still a number of performance optimizations that require 
a thorough optimizer like you. Like using short identifiers instead of 
long ones. I guess you could easily prove that by comparing "a = 0" to 
"a_long_identifier = 0" and running it one hundred trillion times. The 
performance gain could easily add up to *days*. Keep us updated.

Thorsten


From gdamjan at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 08:25:40 2009
From: gdamjan at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?0JTQsNC80ZjQsNC9INCT0LXQvtGA0LPQuNC10LLRgdC60Lg=?=)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 14:25:40 +0200
Subject: String to valid Python identifier
References: 
	<4a7a9328$0$2355$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: <5f70l6-70h.ln1@archaeopteryx.softver.org.mk>



>> Is there any easy function in the stdlib to convert any random string
>> in a valid Python identifier .. possibly by replacing non-valid
>> characters with _ ?
> 
> I think this is fairly underspecified as a problem statement. A
> solution that would meet your specification would be

True, I was thinking that if there was an obvious solution I'd get the 
answer right away.. so it seems there's not.

I did try the string.maketrans way... it was a bit ugly so I decided to 
ask here if I'm missing something... maybe I'll try maketrans again.


ps.
by "convert" I didn't mean a full transformation... I was more hoping 
for the least intrusive transformation that would still leave 
discernible resemblance of the original string. 



-- 
?????? ( http://softver.org.mk/damjan/ )

When you do things right, people won't be sure if you did anything at 
all.


From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Sat Aug  8 08:28:54 2009
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 14:28:54 +0200
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
References: 
	
	<2qcrk6-doj.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	
	<028b1ce0$0$5185$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<556b00a3-bbbf-4076-a300-d20839a313c8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

* garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk (Fri, 7 Aug 2009 
17:41:38 +0000 (UTC))
> Thorsten Kampe  wrote:
> > If you increase the number of loops to one million or one billion or
> > whatever even the slightest completely negligible difference will
> > occur. The same thing will happen if you just increase the corpus of
> > words to a million, trillion or whatever. The performance
> > implications of that are exactly none.
> 
> I am not sure I understood that. Must be my English :-)

I guess you understand me very well and I understand you very well. If 
the performance gain you want to prove doesn't show with 600,000 words, 
you test again with 18,000,000 words and if that is not impressive 
enough with 600,000,000 words. Great.

Or if a million repetitions of your "improved" code don't show the 
expected "performance advantage" you run it a billion times. Even 
greater. Keep on optimzing.

Thorsten


From cournape at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 09:02:37 2009
From: cournape at gmail.com (David Cournapeau)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 22:02:37 +0900
Subject: Why all the __double_underscored_vars__?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <5b8d13220908080602y65815858yda25ddbfd3a05031@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 9:11 PM, kj wrote:
> In  Chris Rebert  writes:
>
>>The double-underscores indicate that the Python interpreter itself
>>usually is the caller of the method, and as such some level of "magic"
>>may be associated with it. Other languages have you do the equivalent
>>of `def +():` or `def operator +()` to override an operator, the
>>keyword or symbol serving a similar warning that "here be magic".
>
> In this case, then I hope that some of these __items__ get demoted
> to a more mundane level, so that the notion of "magic" doesn't get
> trivialized by everyday idioms like:
>
> if __name__ == '__main__':
> ? ?# etc
>
> There are a few in this category... ?I figure that they are cases
> of "atavistic magic".
>
> I bring this up because I find it quite difficult to explain to my
> students (who are complete newcomers to programming) all the
> __underscored__ stuff that even rank noobs like them have to deal
> with. ?(Trust me, to most of them your reply to my post would be
> as clear as mud.)

Maybe your students do not need to know about it, at least at the
beginning ? I heavily use python, and do not use the underscore
methods so much most of the time, except for __init__,

cheers,

David


From michael at stroeder.com  Sat Aug  8 09:09:23 2009
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?=)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 15:09:23 +0200
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	<2qcrk6-doj.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	
	<028b1ce0$0$5185$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<556b00a3-bbbf-4076-a300-d20839a313c8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<0006746a$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <41a0l6-2u4.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>

Thorsten Kampe wrote:
> * Steven D'Aprano (08 Aug 2009 03:29:43 GMT)
>> But why assume that the program takes 8 minutes to run? Perhaps it takes 
>> 8 seconds to run, and 6 seconds of that is the decoding. Then halving 
>> that reduces the total runtime from 8 seconds to 5, which is a noticeable 
>> speed increase to the user, and significant if you then run that program 
>> tens of thousands of times.
> 
> Exactly. That's why it doesn't make sense to benchmark decode()/unicode
> () isolated - meaning out of the context of your actual program.

Thorsten, the point is you're too arrogant to admit that making such a general
statement like you did without knowing *anything* about the context is simply
false. So this is not a technial matter. It's mainly an issue with your attitude.

>> By all means, reminding people that pre-mature optimization is a 
>> waste of time, but it's possible to take that attitude too far to Planet 
>> Bizarro. At the point that you start insisting, and emphasising, that a 
>> three second time difference is "*exactly*" zero,
> 
> Exactly. Because it was not generated in a real world use case but by 
> running a simple loop one millions times. Why one million times? Because 
> by running it "only" one hundred thousand times the difference would 
> have seen even less relevant.

I was running it one million times to mitigate influences on the timing by
other background processes which is a common technique when benchmarking. I
was mainly interested in the percentage which is indeed significant. The
absolute times also strongly depend on the hardware where the software is
running. So your comment about the absolute times are complete nonsense. I'm
eager that this software should also run with acceptable response times on
hardware much slower than my development machine.

> I already gave good advice:
> 1. don't benchmark
> 2. don't benchmark until you have an actual performance issue
> 3. if you benchmark then the whole application and not single commands

You don't know anything about what I'm doing and what my aim is. So your
general rules don't apply.

> It's really easy: Michael has working code. With that he can easily 
> write two versions - one that uses decode() and one that uses unicode().

Yes, I have working code which was originally written before .decode() being
added in Python 2.2. Therefore I wondered whether it would be nice for
readability to replace unicode() by s.decode() since the software does not
support Python versions prior 2.3 anymore anyway. But one aspect is also
performance and hence my question and testing.

Ciao, Michael.


From vlastimil.brom at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 09:21:38 2009
From: vlastimil.brom at gmail.com (Vlastimil Brom)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 15:21:38 +0200
Subject: String to valid Python identifier
In-Reply-To: <5f70l6-70h.ln1@archaeopteryx.softver.org.mk>
References: 
	<4a7a9328$0$2355$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	<5f70l6-70h.ln1@archaeopteryx.softver.org.mk>
Message-ID: <9fdb569a0908080621w116dd3e7qbdb4019bbb0f691a@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/8 ?????? ??????????? :
>
>
>>> Is there any easy function in the stdlib to convert any random string
>>> in a valid Python identifier .. possibly by replacing non-valid
>>> characters with _ ?
...
>
> ps.
> by "convert" I didn't mean a full transformation... I was more hoping
> for the least intrusive transformation that would still leave
> discernible resemblance of the original string.
>
>
>
> --
> ?????? ( http://softver.org.mk/damjan/ )
>
> When you do things right, people won't be sure if you did anything at
> all.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

Depending on the needs (speed, readability ...), the regular
expression replacement might be viable too:
>>> import re
>>> print re.sub(r"[^a-zA-Z0-9_]", r"_", u"a?bc d:e?_123's - foo?!var")
a_bc_d_e__123_s___foo__var
>>> print re.sub(r"\W", r"_", u"a?bc d:e?_123's - foo?!var") # equivalent
a_bc_d_e__123_s___foo__var
>>>

Additionally, as with the other approaches, you also have to check for
the (illegal) starting digit and replace it or prepend some valid
prefix.
hth
 vbr


From lcazarre at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 09:31:02 2009
From: lcazarre at gmail.com (Caezar)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 06:31:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: www.python.org website is down?
Message-ID: 

I cannot connect to the official Python website. I get the following
error message:

"Connection Interrupted
The connection to the server was reset while the page was loading.
The network link was interrupted while negotiating a connection.
Please try again."

Are you experiencing the same problem?


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Aug  8 09:41:57 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 14:41:57 +0100
Subject: www.python.org website is down?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Caezar wrote:
> I cannot connect to the official Python website. I get the following
> error message:
> 
> "Connection Interrupted
> The connection to the server was reset while the page was loading.
> The network link was interrupted while negotiating a connection.
> Please try again."
> 
> Are you experiencing the same problem?
Yes, it's been down for several hours.

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From fasteliteprogrammer at yahoo.com  Sat Aug  8 09:48:04 2009
From: fasteliteprogrammer at yahoo.com (Craig)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 06:48:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: www.python.org website is down?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <314905.49987.qm@web36501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Yes the same prob.

--- On Sat, 8/8/09, Mark Lawrence  wrote:

> From: Mark Lawrence 
> Subject: Re: www.python.org website is down?
> To: python-list at python.org
> Date: Saturday, August 8, 2009, 8:41 AM
> Caezar wrote:
> > I cannot connect to the official Python website. I get
> the following
> > error message:
> > 
> > "Connection Interrupted
> > The connection to the server was reset while the page
> was loading.
> > The network link was interrupted while negotiating a
> connection.
> > Please try again."
> > 
> > Are you experiencing the same problem?
> Yes, it's been down for several hours.
> 
> -- Kindest regards.
> 
> Mark Lawrence.
> 
> -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 


      


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Aug  8 09:48:16 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 14:48:16 +0100
Subject: www.python.org website is down?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A7D8220.90806@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Caezar wrote:
> I cannot connect to the official Python website. I get the following
> error message:
> 
> "Connection Interrupted
> The connection to the server was reset while the page was loading.
> The network link was interrupted while negotiating a connection.
> Please try again."
> 
> Are you experiencing the same problem?

A.M. Kuchling said:

"""
Both www.python.org and svn.python.org are down.  They're hosted on
the same machine, and it seems to have run into disk problems and
hasn't rebooted even after power-cycling.  Thomas Wouters will be
visiting the machine physically tomorrow to try to diagnose the
problem.

(The machine also hosts planet.python.org and hg.python.org.)
"""


From bh at izb.knu.ac.kr  Sat Aug  8 10:26:53 2009
From: bh at izb.knu.ac.kr (Byung-Hee HWANG)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 23:26:53 +0900
Subject: www.python.org website is down?
References: 
Message-ID: <86ab2a4c0i.fsf@betla.izb.knu.ac.kr>

Caezar  writes:

> I cannot connect to the official Python website. I get the following
> error message:
>
> "Connection Interrupted
> The connection to the server was reset while the page was loading.
> The network link was interrupted while negotiating a connection.
> Please try again."
>
> Are you experiencing the same problem?

Yes, me, too. Now i can't open the URL www.python.org ;;

-- 
"But there's a little more. Don Corleone is too modest."
		-- Emilio Barzini, "Chapter 20", page 286


From danielwong at berkeley.edu  Sat Aug  8 11:15:24 2009
From: danielwong at berkeley.edu (Daniel Wong)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 08:15:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: www.python.org website is down?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

>
> A.M. Kuchling said:
>
> """
> Bothwww.python.organd svn.python.org are down. ?They're hosted on
> the same machine, and it seems to have run into disk problems and
> hasn't rebooted even after power-cycling. ?Thomas Wouters will be
> visiting the machine physically tomorrow to try to diagnose the
> problem.
>
> (The machine also hosts planet.python.org and hg.python.org.)
> """

This is probably a stupid question, but Is there going to be any data
loss if it turns out that the disk has died completely? I assume there
are backups of the repo that are geographically distributed.


From efotinis at y  Sat Aug  8 11:43:34 2009
From: efotinis at y (Elias Fotinis (eliasf))
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 18:43:34 +0300
Subject: www.python.org website is down?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <1249746242.50676@athprx03>

"Caezar" wrote:
> I cannot connect to the official Python website.
[snip]
> Are you experiencing the same problem?

Yes, it's been down for a while.

A useful site to check in such occasions is 
http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/. 



From foetsch at yahoo.com  Sat Aug  8 12:02:48 2009
From: foetsch at yahoo.com (=?UTF-8?B?TWljaGFlbCBGw7Z0c2No?=)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 18:02:48 +0200
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
In-Reply-To: <2qcrk6-doj.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
References: 	
	<2qcrk6-doj.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
Message-ID: <4A7DA1A8.4020603@yahoo.com>

Michael Str?der wrote:
 > >>> timeit.Timer("unicode('???????','utf-8')").timeit(10000000)
 > 17.23644495010376
 > >>> timeit.Timer("'???????'.decode('utf8')").timeit(10000000)
 > 72.087096929550171
 >
 > That is significant! So the winner is:
 >
 > unicode('???????','utf-8')

Which proves that benchmark results can be misleading sometimes. :-)

unicode() becomes *slower* when you try "UTF-8" in uppercase, or an 
entirely different codec, say "cp1252":

   >>> timeit.Timer("unicode('???????','UTF-8')").timeit(1000000)
   2.5777881145477295
   >>> timeit.Timer("'???????'.decode('UTF-8')").timeit(1000000)
   1.8430399894714355
   >>> timeit.Timer("unicode('???????','cp1252')").timeit(1000000)
   2.3622498512268066
   >>> timeit.Timer("'???????'.decode('cp1252')").timeit(1000000)
   1.7812771797180176

The reason seems to be that unicode() bypasses codecs.lookup() if the 
encoding is one of "utf-8", "latin-1", "mbcs", or "ascii". OTOH, 
str.decode() always calls codecs.lookup().

If speed is your primary concern, this will give you even better 
performance than unicode():

   decoder = codecs.lookup("utf-8").decode
   for i in xrange(1000000):
       decoder("???????")[0]


However, there's also a functional difference between unicode() and 
str.decode():

unicode() always raises an exception when you try to decode a unicode 
object. str.decode() will first try to encode a unicode object using the 
default encoding (usually "ascii"), which might or might not work.

Kind Regards,
M.F.



From garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk  Sat Aug  8 12:16:49 2009
From: garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk (garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 16:16:49 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
References: 
	
	<2qcrk6-doj.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	
	<028b1ce0$0$5185$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<556b00a3-bbbf-4076-a300-d20839a313c8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

Thorsten Kampe  wrote:
> * garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk (Fri, 7 Aug 2009 
> 17:41:38 +0000 (UTC))
>> Thorsten Kampe  wrote:
>> > If you increase the number of loops to one million or one billion or
>> > whatever even the slightest completely negligible difference will
>> > occur. The same thing will happen if you just increase the corpus of
>> > words to a million, trillion or whatever. The performance
>> > implications of that are exactly none.
>> 
>> I am not sure I understood that. Must be my English :-)
> 
> I guess you understand me very well and I understand you very well. If 

I did not. Really. But then it has been explained to me, so I think I do
now :-)

> the performance gain you want to prove doesn't show with 600,000 words, 
> you test again with 18,000,000 words and if that is not impressive 
> enough with 600,000,000 words. Great.
> 

Huh? 
18e6 words is what I am working with _now_. Most of the data is already
collected, there are going to be few more books, but that's all. And the
optimization I was talking about means going home from work one hour
later or earlier. Quite noticeable for me.
600e6 words is the main corpus. Data is already there and wait to be
processed in some time. Once we finih our current project. That is 
real life, no thought experiment.


> Or if a million repetitions of your "improved" code don't show the 
> expected "performance advantage" you run it a billion times. Even 
> greater. Keep on optimzing.

No, we do not have one billion words (yet - I assume you are talking
about American billion - if you are talking about European billion, we
would be masters of the world with a billion word corpus!).
However, that might change once we start collecting www data (which is a
separate project, to be started in a year or two)
Then, we'll do some more optimiation because the time differences will
be more noticeable. Easy as that.


-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------
| Radovan Garab?k http://kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk/~garabik/ |
| __..--^^^--..__    garabik @ kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk     |
 -----------------------------------------------------------
Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus.
Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!


From nipunreddevil at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 12:34:02 2009
From: nipunreddevil at gmail.com (nipun batra)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 12:34:02 -0400
Subject: Serial port access
Message-ID: <1e61b3260908080934g1ff65580k5836648db436b336@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
How can we access serial port using usb-serial converters,using python in
linux.I want to further use pyGTK for Gui development after accessing serial
data.
-------------- next part --------------
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From rogerpack2005 at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 12:34:05 2009
From: rogerpack2005 at gmail.com (rogerdpack)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 09:34:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: .h files?
Message-ID: <50c453d9-d455-4f08-959c-e225149495fb@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

Question.  Seems that with python distributions you have the option to
include either "external facing, public" *.h files, and make them
available, or include the whole kit and kaboodle [all *.h files].  Any
word on how python does this currently?  Just wondering as ruby runs
into the same question.
Thanks!
-roger


From jimxu at google.com  Sat Aug  8 12:47:14 2009
From: jimxu at google.com (Yongjian Xu)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 09:47:14 -0700
Subject: Why all the __double_underscored_vars__?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	 
	
Message-ID: <9c09a1210908080947t6d955beaxa495502b95ce9c1@mail.gmail.com>

These "special" methods are not meant to be used or known to beginners. They
aren't even meant to be called directly (in most cases). They are either
operator overloading methods or behavior customization methods. In my
opinion, in the meta programming realm. Should probably in advanced topic or
something.


On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 5:11 AM, kj  wrote:

> In  Chris Rebert <
> clp2 at rebertia.com> writes:
>
> >The double-underscores indicate that the Python interpreter itself
> >usually is the caller of the method, and as such some level of "magic"
> >may be associated with it. Other languages have you do the equivalent
> >of `def +():` or `def operator +()` to override an operator, the
> >keyword or symbol serving a similar warning that "here be magic".
>
> In this case, then I hope that some of these __items__ get demoted
> to a more mundane level, so that the notion of "magic" doesn't get
> trivialized by everyday idioms like:
>
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>    # etc
>
> There are a few in this category...  I figure that they are cases
> of "atavistic magic".
>
> I bring this up because I find it quite difficult to explain to my
> students (who are complete newcomers to programming) all the
> __underscored__ stuff that even rank noobs like them have to deal
> with.  (Trust me, to most of them your reply to my post would be
> as clear as mud.)  This suggests to me that there's something a
> bit unnatural about some of these __items__.
>
> Anyway, thanks for your post.  I see your point.
>
> kynn
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From n179911 at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 12:47:38 2009
From: n179911 at gmail.com (n179911)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 09:47:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need help in refactoring my python script
Message-ID: <10d392bc-0a41-4a12-a863-f5fcb296d40c@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

I have a python script which process a file line by line, if the line
matches a regex, it calls a function to handle it.

My question is is there a better write to refactor my script. The
script works, but as it is, i need to keep indent to the right of the
editor as I add more and more regex for my file.

Thank you for any idea.
Now my code end up like this:

for line in fi.readlines():

	result= reg1.match(line)

	if result:
		handleReg1(result)

	else:
		result = reg2.match(line)

		if result:
			handleReg2(result)
		else:
			result = reg3.match(line)

			if result:
				handleReg3(result)
			else:
				result = reg4.match(line)

				if result:
					handleReg4(result)
				else:
					result = reg5.match(line)

					if result:
                                               handleReg5(result)


From exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  Sat Aug  8 12:54:51 2009
From: exarkun at twistedmatrix.com (exarkun at twistedmatrix.com)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 16:54:51 -0000
Subject: Serial port access
In-Reply-To: <1e61b3260908080934g1ff65580k5836648db436b336@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1e61b3260908080934g1ff65580k5836648db436b336@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090808165451.7171.1497184396.divmod.xquotient.112@localhost.localdomain>

On 04:34 pm, nipunreddevil at gmail.com wrote:
>Hi,
>How can we access serial port using usb-serial converters,using python 
>in
>linux.I want to further use pyGTK for Gui development after accessing 
>serial
>data.

Twisted supports serial ports and has good Gtk integration.

http://twistedmatrix.com/projects/core/documentation/examples/ has some
examples of each of these things (take a look at mouse.py for the serial
port example).

Jean-Paul


From hatbabe at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 12:57:32 2009
From: hatbabe at gmail.com (the hatter)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 09:57:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: www.python.org website is down?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

> A.M. Kuchling said:
>
> """
> Bothwww.python.organd svn.python.org are down. ?They're hosted on
> the same machine, and it seems to have run into disk problems and
> hasn't rebooted even after power-cycling. ?Thomas Wouters will be
> visiting the machine physically tomorrow to try to diagnose the
> problem.
>
> (The machine also hosts planet.python.org and hg.python.org.)
> """

I was hoping to find an official mirror to grab source from when I
couldn't connect, but all i found were notices saying the python board
had decided they didn't want any ?  Seems a bit short-sighted if the
main site isn't some kind of fairly bulletproof, diverse/redundant/
intrinsically mirroring setup.


the hatter


From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Sat Aug  8 13:00:11 2009
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 19:00:11 +0200
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
References: 
	
	<2qcrk6-doj.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	
	<028b1ce0$0$5185$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<556b00a3-bbbf-4076-a300-d20839a313c8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<0006746a$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<41a0l6-2u4.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
Message-ID: 

* Michael Str?der (Sat, 08 Aug 2009 15:09:23 +0200)
> Thorsten Kampe wrote:
> > * Steven D'Aprano (08 Aug 2009 03:29:43 GMT)
> >> But why assume that the program takes 8 minutes to run? Perhaps it takes 
> >> 8 seconds to run, and 6 seconds of that is the decoding. Then halving 
> >> that reduces the total runtime from 8 seconds to 5, which is a noticeable 
> >> speed increase to the user, and significant if you then run that program 
> >> tens of thousands of times.
> > 
> > Exactly. That's why it doesn't make sense to benchmark decode()/unicode
> > () isolated - meaning out of the context of your actual program.
> 
> Thorsten, the point is you're too arrogant to admit that making such a general
> statement like you did without knowing *anything* about the context is simply
> false.

I made a general statement to a very general question ("These both 
expressions are equivalent but which is faster or should be used for any 
reason?"). If you have specific needs or reasons then you obviously 
failed to provide that specific "context" in your question.
 
> >> By all means, reminding people that pre-mature optimization is a 
> >> waste of time, but it's possible to take that attitude too far to Planet 
> >> Bizarro. At the point that you start insisting, and emphasising, that a 
> >> three second time difference is "*exactly*" zero,
> > 
> > Exactly. Because it was not generated in a real world use case but by 
> > running a simple loop one millions times. Why one million times? Because 
> > by running it "only" one hundred thousand times the difference would 
> > have seen even less relevant.
> 
> I was running it one million times to mitigate influences on the timing by
> other background processes which is a common technique when benchmarking.

Err, no. That is what "repeat" is for and it defaults to 3 ("This means 
that other processes running on the same computer may interfere with the 
timing. The best thing to do when accurate timing is necessary is to 
repeat the timing a few times and use the best time. [...] the default 
of 3 repetitions is probably enough in most cases.")

Three times - not one million times. You choose one million times (for 
the loop) when the thing you're testing is very fast (like decoding) and 
you don't want results in the 0.00000n range. Which is what you asked 
for and what you got.

> > I already gave good advice:
> > 1. don't benchmark
> > 2. don't benchmark until you have an actual performance issue
> > 3. if you benchmark then the whole application and not single commands
> 
> You don't know anything about what I'm doing and what my aim is. So your
> general rules don't apply.

See above. You asked a general question, you got a general answer.
 
> > It's really easy: Michael has working code. With that he can easily 
> > write two versions - one that uses decode() and one that uses unicode().
> 
> Yes, I have working code which was originally written before .decode() being
> added in Python 2.2. Therefore I wondered whether it would be nice for
> readability to replace unicode() by s.decode() since the software does not
> support Python versions prior 2.3 anymore anyway. But one aspect is also
> performance and hence my question and testing.

You haven't done any testing yet. Running decode/unicode one million 
times in a loop is not testing. If you don't believe me then read at 
least Martelli's Optimization chapter in Python in a nutshell (the 
chapter is available via Google books).

Thorsten


From __peter__ at web.de  Sat Aug  8 13:02:09 2009
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 19:02:09 +0200
Subject: Need help in refactoring my python script
References: <10d392bc-0a41-4a12-a863-f5fcb296d40c@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

n179911 wrote:

> I have a python script which process a file line by line, if the line
> matches a regex, it calls a function to handle it.
> 
> My question is is there a better write to refactor my script. The
> script works, but as it is, i need to keep indent to the right of the
> editor as I add more and more regex for my file.
> 
> Thank you for any idea.
> Now my code end up like this:
> 
> for line in fi.readlines():
> 
>         result= reg1.match(line)
> 
>         if result:
>                 handleReg1(result)
> 
>         else:
>                 result = reg2.match(line)
> 
>                 if result:
>                         handleReg2(result)
>                 else:
>                         result = reg3.match(line)
> 
>                         if result:
>                                 handleReg3(result)
>                         else:
>                                 result = reg4.match(line)
> 
>                                 if result:
>                                         handleReg4(result)
>                                 else:
>                                         result = reg5.match(line)
> 
>                                         if result:
>                                                handleReg5(result)
> 

If the handlers are indeed functions you can put them into a list:

match_handler_pairs = [
    (reg1.match, handleReg1),
    (reg2.match, handleReg2),
    ...
    ]

for line in fi: # look Ma, no readlines()
    for match, handler in match_handler_pairs:
        result = match(line)
        if result:
            handler(result)
            break
        
 Peter



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Aug  8 13:09:47 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 18:09:47 +0100
Subject: Need help in refactoring my python script
In-Reply-To: <10d392bc-0a41-4a12-a863-f5fcb296d40c@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
References: <10d392bc-0a41-4a12-a863-f5fcb296d40c@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A7DB15B.3090804@mrabarnett.plus.com>

n179911 wrote:
> I have a python script which process a file line by line, if the line
> matches a regex, it calls a function to handle it.
> 
> My question is is there a better write to refactor my script. The
> script works, but as it is, i need to keep indent to the right of the
> editor as I add more and more regex for my file.
> 
> Thank you for any idea.
> Now my code end up like this:
> 
> for line in fi.readlines():

This will read all the lines and then iterate through them. You can 
iterate through the file line by line directly with:

     for line in fi:
         ...

> 	result= reg1.match(line)
> 	if result:
> 		handleReg1(result)
> 	else:
> 		result = reg2.match(line)
> 		if result:
> 			handleReg2(result)
> 		else:
> 			result = reg3.match(line)
> 			if result:
> 				handleReg3(result)
> 			else:
> 				result = reg4.match(line)
> 				if result:
> 					handleReg4(result)
> 				else:
> 					result = reg5.match(line)
> 					if result:
>                                                handleReg5(result)

Build a list of the regexes and their functions:

actions = []
actions.append((reg1, handleReg1))
actions.append((reg2, handleReg2))
actions.append((reg3, handleReg3))
actions.append((reg4, handleReg4))
actions.append((reg5, handleReg5))

for line in fi:
     for reg, func in actions:
         result = reg.match(line)
         if result:
             func(result)
             break


From rcdailey at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 13:12:30 2009
From: rcdailey at gmail.com (Robert Dailey)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 10:12:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Subclass dynamically
Message-ID: <69df1b9a-fbc2-4a04-bc43-713eeee23e1a@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>

Hey,

I have a class that I want to have a different base class depending on
a parameter that I pass to its __init__method. For example
(pseudocode):

class MyDerived( self.base ):
  def __init__( self, base ):
    self.base = base


Something like that... and then I would do this:

foo = MyDerived( MyBase() )

Note I'm using Python 3.1 on Windows. Thanks in advance.


From gherron at islandtraining.com  Sat Aug  8 13:31:41 2009
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 10:31:41 -0700
Subject: Subclass dynamically
In-Reply-To: <69df1b9a-fbc2-4a04-bc43-713eeee23e1a@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
References: <69df1b9a-fbc2-4a04-bc43-713eeee23e1a@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A7DB67D.9070208@islandtraining.com>

Robert Dailey wrote:
> Hey,
>
> I have a class that I want to have a different base class depending on
> a parameter that I pass to its __init__method. For example
> (pseudocode):
>
> class MyDerived( self.base ):
>   def __init__( self, base ):
>     self.base = base
>
>
> Something like that... and then I would do this:
>
> foo = MyDerived( MyBase() )
>
> Note I'm using Python 3.1 on Windows. Thanks in advance.
>   
Python makes it possible to change base classes, but that doesn't mean 
it ever a good idea.

Moreover, the assignment is at the class level, not the instance level:

    MyDerived.__bases__ = (base,) #A tuple of bases

would change the base class for the class MyDerived, and all instances 
past, present, or future.

Better (but still not good) might be a factory function that derives a 
class with the desired base class:

def Derive(base):
    class Derived(base):
        pass
    return Derived

DerivedClass = Derive(MyBase)
foo = DerivedClass(...)

I believe that will produce what you were looking for.

Gary Herron



From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Sat Aug  8 13:43:30 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 19:43:30 +0200
Subject: Bug or feature: double strings as one
In-Reply-To: <000674d6$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 
	
	
	<000674d6$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

08-08-2009 Steven D'Aprano  wrote:

> On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 17:35:28 +0000, kj wrote:
>
>> I fail to see why
>>
>> x = ("first part of a very long string "
>>      "second part of a very long string")
>
> That's done by the compiler at compile time and is fast.

Moreover, it's also more readable, when you use str calling its
methods or using formatting on it.

I use it very often, e.g.:

         afunction('quite long string %s quite long string '
                   'quite long string quite long string %s '
                   'quite %s long string quite long string'
                   % (variable1, variable2, variable3))

It seems nicer to me than:

         afunction(('quite long string %s quite long string '
                    + 'quite long string quite long string %s '
                    + 'quite %s long string quite long string')
                   % (variable1, variable2, variable3))

(Note that multiline-'''-strings are usless in such cases).

*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Aug  8 14:14:40 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 19:14:40 +0100
Subject: convert non-delimited to delimited
In-Reply-To: <768586.94351.qm@web65602.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <768586.94351.qm@web65602.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4A7DC090.8020109@mrabarnett.plus.com>

John wrote:
> I am not really a CS person, but I have a task to import a non-delimited 
> text to an access database.  After some research, I *think* the best way 
> to do this is by first converting the non-delimited text to delimited 
> text, and then import it to the database.  Is this the best way to 
> approach this?  Or is there easier way?
>  
[snip]
> 
> I am really stump on where to go from here.  Any help would be 
> appreciated it.  I have also include a text file which gives several 
> more examples.
> 
You'll need to see what types of file the database can import. A brief
search of the web says that it can import tab-separated text files (a
line is a record and the fields are separated by tab characters).

Be sure to test it first before trying it on the real database! :-)


From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 14:15:20 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 11:15:20 -0700
Subject: [Diversity] Language note
In-Reply-To: <12470af00908080943g1e559273sdd5e4fc92336a5eb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090807143826.GA19246@panix.com>
	<7528bcdd0908070753t7533d6ddw2321a462ed7036e3@mail.gmail.com>
	
	
	<12470af00908080755y717036b2j3d2ac7bf98838fc@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<12470af00908080943g1e559273sdd5e4fc92336a5eb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 


> Most indian languages have a different
> grammer (compared to English). So i'm curious to see how that would be
> implemented in a parser

+1 -- I'd be interested in seeing this too, although we have drifted  
OT here and perhaps this conversation would be better had on Python- 
list. The closest I've seen to a language being able to support  
different grammatical structures is Perligata (http:// 
www.csse.monash.edu.au/~damian/papers/HTML/Perligata.html), does  
Python have anything similar?

-------------
Rami Chowdhury
"Never assume malice when stupidity will suffice." -- Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)




On Aug 8, 2009, at 09:43 , vid wrote:

> On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 21:19, Rami  
> Chowdhury wrote:
>> I suppose the Chinese Python project that Brianna linked to
>> (http://www.chinesepython.org/cgi_bin/cgb.cgi/english/ 
>> english.html) must
>> take Unicode input...
>
> That was interesting but i dont know chinese and IIUC my requirement
> is slightly different -- Most indian languages have a different
> grammer (compared to English). So i'm curious to see how that would be
> implemented in a parser, especially because it brings in a lot more
> ambiguity.
>
> -- 
> thanks
> || vid || http://www.svaksha.com ||
> _______________________________________________
> Diversity mailing list
> Diversity at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity



From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Aug  8 14:17:37 2009
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 20:17:37 +0200
Subject: www.python.org website is down?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <4A7DC141.9070207@v.loewis.de>

> This is probably a stupid question, but Is there going to be any data
> loss if it turns out that the disk has died completely? I assume there
> are backups of the repo that are geographically distributed.

Yes, we have backups, and are restoring them at the moment. However,
we still haven't given up on the original disks: they are (probably)
fine; it's just the RAID controller that has failed (and we can't buy a
replacement before Monday).

Regards,
Martin


From kpouya at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 14:33:57 2009
From: kpouya at gmail.com (Pouya Khankhanian)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 11:33:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: www.python.org website is down?
References: 
	
	
	<4A7DC141.9070207@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <54581bf3-c9a1-4bbf-945c-28d436ffda2a@k13g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 8, 11:17?am, "Martin v. L?wis"  wrote:
> > This is probably a stupid question, but Is there going to be any data
> > loss if it turns out that the disk has died completely? I assume there
> > are backups of the repo that are geographically distributed.
>
> Yes, we have backups, and are restoring them at the moment. However,
> we still haven't given up on the original disks: they are (probably)
> fine; it's just the RAID controller that has failed (and we can't buy a
> replacement before Monday).
>
> Regards,
> Martin

Is there a mirror site to download the latest python installer? Every
mirror I have found on the web redirects me to python.org.
Best
Peter


From sharath20284 at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 14:49:13 2009
From: sharath20284 at gmail.com (Sharath)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 11:49:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: www.python.org website is down?
References: 
	
	
	<4A7DC141.9070207@v.loewis.de>
	<54581bf3-c9a1-4bbf-945c-28d436ffda2a@k13g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4cea29ee-cc89-4494-aef9-0f46f8dd11b9@2g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 8, 11:33?am, Pouya Khankhanian  wrote:
> On Aug 8, 11:17?am, "Martin v. L?wis"  wrote:
>
> > > This is probably a stupid question, but Is there going to be any data
> > > loss if it turns out that the disk has died completely? I assume there
> > > are backups of the repo that are geographically distributed.
>
> > Yes, we have backups, and are restoring them at the moment. However,
> > we still haven't given up on the original disks: they are (probably)
> > fine; it's just the RAID controller that has failed (and we can't buy a
> > replacement before Monday).
>
> > Regards,
> > Martin
>
> Is there a mirror site to download the latest python installer? Every
> mirror I have found on the web redirects me to python.org.
> Best
> Peter


Python FTP mirror sites also have the same problem. They are not being
mirrored for some require a password. Is there any other way to get a
copy?

Sharath Venkatesha


From no.email at please.post  Sat Aug  8 14:49:28 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 18:49:28 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Why all the __double_underscored_vars__?
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

In  David Cournapeau  writes:

>On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 9:11 PM, kj wrote:
>> In  Chris Rebert p2 at rebertia.com> writes:
>>
>>>The double-underscores indicate that the Python interpreter itself
>>>usually is the caller of the method, and as such some level of "magic"
>>>may be associated with it. Other languages have you do the equivalent
>>>of `def +():` or `def operator +()` to override an operator, the
>>>keyword or symbol serving a similar warning that "here be magic".
>>
>> In this case, then I hope that some of these __items__ get demoted
>> to a more mundane level, so that the notion of "magic" doesn't get
>> trivialized by everyday idioms like:
>>
>> if __name__ =3D=3D '__main__':
>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0# etc
>>
>> There are a few in this category... =C2=A0I figure that they are cases
>> of "atavistic magic".
>>
>> I bring this up because I find it quite difficult to explain to my
>> students (who are complete newcomers to programming) all the
>> __underscored__ stuff that even rank noobs like them have to deal
>> with. =C2=A0(Trust me, to most of them your reply to my post would be
>> as clear as mud.)

>Maybe your students do not need to know about it, at least at the
>beginning ? I heavily use python, and do not use the underscore
>methods so much most of the time, except for __init__,

Believe me, it's not me who's bringing this stuff up: *they*
specifically ask.  That's precisely my point: it is *they* who
somehow feel they can't avoid finding out about this stuff; they
must run into such __arcana__ often enough to cause them to wonder.
If at least some rank beginners (i.e. some of my students) feel
this way, I suggest that some of this alleged __arcana__ should be
demoted to a more mundane everyday status, without the scare-underscores.
E.g. maybe there should be a built-in is_main(), or some such, so
that beginners don't have to venture into the dark underworld of
__name__ and "__main__".

kynn


From kyrie at uh.cu  Sat Aug  8 15:13:04 2009
From: kyrie at uh.cu (Luis Alberto Zarrabeitia Gomez)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 15:13:04 -0400
Subject: Subclass dynamically
In-Reply-To: <69df1b9a-fbc2-4a04-bc43-713eeee23e1a@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
References: <69df1b9a-fbc2-4a04-bc43-713eeee23e1a@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1249758784.4a7dce40af627@mail.uh.cu>


Quoting Robert Dailey :

> Hey,
> 
> I have a class that I want to have a different base class depending on
> a parameter that I pass to its __init__method. For example
> (pseudocode):

1- Are you sure that you want that behavior? Given that in python, a class is
just a particular case of invocable object, you could just write a function
instead, and the code may be more robust.

2- If you are /sure/ that is the behavior you want, take a look at the __new__
method. The __new__ can decide which instance to return (you could even define a
new class inside of it, instantiate it, and return the instance).

3- You may want to take a look at metaclasses. But without more details about
why you want it, I can't give you more precise answers.

Regards,

-- 
Luis Zarrabeitia
Facultad de Matem?tica y Computaci?n, UH
http://profesores.matcom.uh.cu/~kyrie



-- 
Participe en Universidad 2010, del 8 al 12 de febrero de 2010
La Habana, Cuba 
http://www.universidad2010.cu



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Aug  8 15:27:49 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 20:27:49 +0100
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 			<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>		<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>		<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro	ups.com>
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>			<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Kee Nethery wrote:
> As someone trying to learn the language I want to say that the tone on 
> this list towards people who are trying to learn Python  feels like it 
> has become anti-newbies.
> 
[snip]
> 
> Kee Nethery
My gut feeling (which could of course be wrong) is that many hard core 
Pythonistas are cheesed off with newbies who refuse to help themselves.
No evidence that that they've tried any Python tutorial.  No evidence 
that that they've searched anywhere in an attempt to resolve the problem 
before posting.  "This code doesn't work, please fix it".  Response 
often "Please post your actual code, or a snippet that gives the same 
exception, and give the complete exception details".

Show that you have made an attempt to help yourself, and the response 
here is almost certainly 100% helpful.

Further, I have seen many requests here which are nothing really to do 
with Python, say a query about which algorithm to use.  Response "Not 
really a Python question, but try ...".  Put the same question on (say) 
the C ng and you'd be told in no uncertain terms to Foxtrot Oscar.

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From http  Sat Aug  8 15:37:01 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 08 Aug 2009 12:37:01 -0700
Subject: unique-ifying a list
References: 
	
Message-ID: <7x8whum71e.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Dennis Lee Bieber  writes:
> 	Why bother with	seen	?

The version with seen runs in linear time because of the O(1) set
lookup.  Your version runs in quadratic time.


From contact at xavierho.com  Sat Aug  8 16:35:42 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 06:35:42 +1000
Subject: www.python.org website is down?
In-Reply-To: <4cea29ee-cc89-4494-aef9-0f46f8dd11b9@2g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	
	<4A7DC141.9070207@v.loewis.de>
	<54581bf3-c9a1-4bbf-945c-28d436ffda2a@k13g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<4cea29ee-cc89-4494-aef9-0f46f8dd11b9@2g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908081335r23a03895i16bf3b5551a7823a@mail.gmail.com>

Well, it's back up now.

At least for me. ;)

Ching-Yun "Xavier" Ho, Technical Artist

Contact Information
Mobile: (+61) 04 3335 4748
Skype ID: SpaXe85
Email: contact at xavierho.com
Website: http://xavierho.com/


On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 4:49 AM, Sharath  wrote:

> On Aug 8, 11:33 am, Pouya Khankhanian  wrote:
> > On Aug 8, 11:17 am, "Martin v. L?wis"  wrote:
> >
> > > > This is probably a stupid question, but Is there going to be any data
> > > > loss if it turns out that the disk has died completely? I assume
> there
> > > > are backups of the repo that are geographically distributed.
> >
> > > Yes, we have backups, and are restoring them at the moment. However,
> > > we still haven't given up on the original disks: they are (probably)
> > > fine; it's just the RAID controller that has failed (and we can't buy a
> > > replacement before Monday).
> >
> > > Regards,
> > > Martin
> >
> > Is there a mirror site to download the latest python installer? Every
> > mirror I have found on the web redirects me to python.org.
> > Best
> > Peter
>
>
> Python FTP mirror sites also have the same problem. They are not being
> mirrored for some require a password. Is there any other way to get a
> copy?
>
> Sharath Venkatesha
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Aug  8 16:37:21 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 8 Aug 2009 13:37:21 -0700
Subject: python.org downtime (was Re: is it possible to overload operator "^"?)
References: <89523a6b-c609-4b3f-9f01-4aa219dfd916@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<7e4tg5F2eirarU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
dmitrey   wrote:
>
>To Diez:
>yes, but I haven't paid attention to xor. BTW the url is currently
>unavailable (Network Timeout. The server at docs.python.org is taking
>too long to respond.).

www.python.org is currently having hardware problems
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"...string iteration isn't about treating strings as sequences of strings, 
it's about treating strings as sequences of characters.  The fact that
characters are also strings is the reason we have problems, but characters 
are strings for other good reasons."  --Aahz


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sat Aug  8 16:41:42 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 16:41:42 -0400
Subject: Serial port access
In-Reply-To: <1e61b3260908080934g1ff65580k5836648db436b336@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1e61b3260908080934g1ff65580k5836648db436b336@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908081341o63636f36i99b5971fdb0bbb57@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 12:34 PM, nipun batra wrote:
> Hi,
> How can we access serial port using usb-serial converters,using python in
> linux.

PySerial might also be an option:
http://pyserial.sourceforge.net/index.html

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From contact at xavierho.com  Sat Aug  8 16:44:09 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 06:44:09 +1000
Subject: python.org downtime (was Re: is it possible to overload operator 
	"^"?)
In-Reply-To: 
References: <89523a6b-c609-4b3f-9f01-4aa219dfd916@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<7e4tg5F2eirarU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908081344n10fb56eo1fe108cbb824901f@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 6:37 AM, Aahz  wrote:

> www.python.org is currently having hardware problems
>

So what I'm seeing is an illusion? It works as of now.

- Xavier
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From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Sat Aug  8 17:50:32 2009
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 14:50:32 -0700
Subject: Why all the __double_underscored_vars__?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

kj wrote:
>>> ... I find it quite difficult to explain to my
>>> students (who are complete newcomers to programming) all the
>>> __underscored__ stuff that even rank noobs like them have to deal
>>> with. =C2=A0(Trust me, to most of them your reply to my post would be
>>> as clear as mud.)
> Believe me, it's not me who's bringing this stuff up: *they*
> specifically ask.  That's precisely my point: it is *they* who
> somehow feel they can't avoid finding out about this stuff; they
> must run into such __arcana__ often enough to cause them to wonder.
> If at least some rank beginners (i.e. some of my students) feel
> this way, I suggest that some of this alleged __arcana__ should be
> demoted to a more mundane everyday status, without the scare-underscores.
> E.g. maybe there should be a built-in is_main(), or some such, so
> that beginners don't have to venture into the dark underworld of
> __name__ and "__main__".

Do you know about Kirby Urner's technique of calling such symbols,
"ribs," -- the access to the "stuff" Python is built from?  One nice
thing about Python is that you can experiment with what these
"__ribs__" do without having to learn yet another language.

It seems nice to me that you can use a rule that says, "stick to
normal names and you don't have to worry about mucking with the
way Python itself works, but if you are curious, looks for those
things and fiddle with them."

--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From kpouya at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 17:50:34 2009
From: kpouya at gmail.com (Pouya Khankhanian)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 14:50:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: www.python.org website is down?
References: 
	
	
	<4A7DC141.9070207@v.loewis.de>
	<54581bf3-c9a1-4bbf-945c-28d436ffda2a@k13g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<4cea29ee-cc89-4494-aef9-0f46f8dd11b9@2g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <80c46b94-9df2-43f5-9182-37c2413db783@b25g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 8, 11:49?am, Sharath  wrote:
> On Aug 8, 11:33?am, Pouya Khankhanian  wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Aug 8, 11:17?am, "Martin v. L?wis"  wrote:
>
> > > > This is probably a stupid question, but Is there going to be any data
> > > > loss if it turns out that the disk has died completely? I assume there
> > > > are backups of the repo that are geographically distributed.
>
> > > Yes, we have backups, and are restoring them at the moment. However,
> > > we still haven't given up on the original disks: they are (probably)
> > > fine; it's just the RAID controller that has failed (and we can't buy a
> > > replacement before Monday).
>
> > > Regards,
> > > Martin
>
> > Is there a mirror site to download the latest python installer? Every
> > mirror I have found on the web redirects me to python.org.
> > Best
> > Peter
>
> Python FTP mirror sites also have the same problem. They are not being
> mirrored for some require a password. Is there any other way to get a
> copy?
>
> Sharath Venkatesha

Website is back up! Thanks for all the hard work


From efotinis at y  Sat Aug  8 18:05:01 2009
From: efotinis at y (Elias Fotinis (eliasf))
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 01:05:01 +0300
Subject: Pywin32 @ windows 7
In-Reply-To: 
References: <004a01ca1733$a9768c10$4605a8c0@btsc1><1249724885.215365@athprx03>
	
Message-ID: <1249769137.332546@athprx03>

"Dennis Lee Bieber" wrote:
> Has it been built under a 64-bit OS though? (I'll confess I've not
> looked -- I always install the ActiveState binary for my WinXP (32bit)
> system, and that library is part of the install)

Yes, both Python x64 and pywin32 x64 are native 64-bit applications -- they 
can't even be installed on a 32-bit system. 



From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 18:39:16 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 15:39:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	
	
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	 
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro ups.com> 
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	 
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <47b58ea9-d199-41f7-8d7b-8de382f85396@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 6, 11:36?am, Kee Nethery  wrote:
> As someone trying to learn the language I want to say that the tone on ?
> this list towards people who are trying to learn Python ?feels like it ?
> has become anti-newbies.

I don't think this NG is anti-newbie so much as anti-whining-loser.

Unfortunately, some newbies might see this and perceive it to be abuse
of newbies in general.  It is not so.  People who have chips on their
shoulder, who make loaded, emotionally-provocative comments, who make
no effort on their own, who expect us to do their homework and/or job
for them, etc., there are the people who going to get an unfavorable
tone.

Newbies who ask respectable questions without having an attitude will
generally get respectable answers.


> For example, the guy who was looking for Python sample code for the ?
> Google Map API, calling him a troll was harsh.

No it wasn't, that guy is Xah Lee, a person who's been trolling Usenet
for a long time.  He is best ignored, but I don't blame someone for
snapping at him.


Carl Banks


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 19:10:20 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 16:10:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Subclass dynamically
References: <69df1b9a-fbc2-4a04-bc43-713eeee23e1a@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <478f321d-3d88-4074-af17-1bc3d509e6b3@x25g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 8, 12:13?pm, Luis Alberto Zarrabeitia Gomez 
wrote:
> Quoting Robert Dailey :
>
> > Hey,
>
> > I have a class that I want to have a different base class depending on
> > a parameter that I pass to its __init__method. For example
> > (pseudocode):
>
> 1- Are you sure that you want that behavior? Given that in python, a class is
> just a particular case of invocable object, you could just write a function
> instead, and the code may be more robust.
>
> 2- If you are /sure/ that is the behavior you want, take a look at the __new__
> method. The __new__ can decide which instance to return (you could even define a
> new class inside of it, instantiate it, and return the instance).
>
> 3- You may want to take a look at metaclasses. But without more details about
> why you want it, I can't give you more precise answers.

One could accomplish this using methods 2 and 3, but it would go
against so many common expectations I have to recommend never doing
it.  If you call a type, it should return an object of that type (or,
at worst, a subtype or "null" type) or raise an exception.

The factory function is the way to do this.

Another alternative is to forego inheritance and simply call method on
the passed "base" object.  Given that the OP posted code that almost
literally works in that case, this might be the best way to go for his
case.

So instead of this hypothetical code:

class MyDerived(self.base):
    def __init__(self,base)
        self.base = base
    # MyDerived inherits a_method() from self.base

He could go with this real code:

class MyClass(object):
    def __init__(self,base)
        self.base = base
    def a_method(self):
        return self.base.a_method()

where, instead of inheriting self.base's a_method, it simply defines
a_method() to call self.base.a_method() directly.


Carl Banks


From michael at stroeder.com  Sat Aug  8 19:42:14 2009
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?UTF-8?B?TWljaGFlbCBTdHLDtmRlcg==?=)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 01:42:14 +0200
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
In-Reply-To: 
References: 		<2qcrk6-doj.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Michael F?tsch wrote:
> If speed is your primary concern, this will give you even better
> performance than unicode():
> 
>   decoder = codecs.lookup("utf-8").decode
>   for i in xrange(1000000):
>       decoder("???????")[0]

Hmm, that could be interesting. I will give it a try.

> However, there's also a functional difference between unicode() and
> str.decode():
> 
> unicode() always raises an exception when you try to decode a unicode
> object. str.decode() will first try to encode a unicode object using the
> default encoding (usually "ascii"), which might or might not work.

Thanks for pointing that out. So in my case I'd consider that also a plus for
using unicode().

Ciao, Michael.


From BrianVanderburg2 at aim.com  Sat Aug  8 21:08:38 2009
From: BrianVanderburg2 at aim.com (Brian Allen Vanderburg II)
Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 21:08:38 -0400
Subject: How to do relpath implementation on 2.5
Message-ID: <4A7E2196.2080403@aim.com>

I've coded my own 'relpath' implementation for 2.5 (shown below) and I 
want to make sure it follows as closely as it should to 2.6 and later.  
I've got a question regarding that.  When attempting to convert to a 
relative path and it is not possible for some reason (different drive or 
UNC share), should that be an error or should it return the absolute 
path of the target?  I'm using Debian so I don't have 2.6 available 
right now for testing.

This is what I've got so far

import os
from os import path


def relpath(target, origin=os.curdir):
    """
    Determine relative path of target to origin or
    """

    target = path.normcase(path.abspath(path.normpath(target)))
    origin = path.normcase(path.abspath(path.normpath(origin)))

    # Same?
    if target == origin:
        return '.'

    original_target = target

    # Check drive (for Windows)
    (tdrive, target) = path.splitdrive(target)
    (odrive, origin) = path.splitdrive(origin)
    if tdrive != odrive:
        return original_target

    # Check UNC path (for Windows)
    # If they are on different shares, we want an absolute path
    if not tdrive and not odrive and hasattr(path, 'splitunc'):
        (tunc, target) = path.splitunc(target)
        (ounc, origin) = path.splitunc(origin)
        if tunc != ounc:
            return original_target

    # Split into lists
    target_list = target.split(os.sep)
    origin_list = origin.split(os.sep)

    # Remove beginning empty parts
    # Helps to handle when one item may be in the root
    while target_list and not target_list[0]:
        del target_list[0]
    while origin_list and not origin_list[0]:
        del origin_list[0]

    # Remove common items
    while origin_list and target_list:
        if origin_list[0] == target_list[0]:
            del origin_list[0]
            del target_list[0]
        else:
            break

    # Combine and return the result
    relative_list = [os.pardir] * len(origin_list) + target_list
    if not relative_list:
        return os.curdir
    return os.sep.join(relative_list)


Currently I just return the target if it can not be made relative.

Brian A. Vanderburg II


From nipunreddevil at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 21:20:12 2009
From: nipunreddevil at gmail.com (nipun batra)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 06:50:12 +0530
Subject: Serial port access
In-Reply-To: <50697b2c0908081341o63636f36i99b5971fdb0bbb57@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1e61b3260908080934g1ff65580k5836648db436b336@mail.gmail.com>
	<50697b2c0908081341o63636f36i99b5971fdb0bbb57@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1e61b3260908081820r702a4e24s6599fa724c97344a@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 2:11 AM, Chris Rebert  wrote:

> On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 12:34 PM, nipun batra
> wrote:
> > Hi,
> > How can we access serial port using usb-serial converters,using python in
> > linux.
>
> PySerial might also be an option:
> http://pyserial.sourceforge.net/index.html
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --
> http://blog.rebertia.com
>


pySerial mentions about serial ports but not about usb-serial.Can i do
something like convert my usb-serial to act as serial port and then use
pySerial
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From thudfoo at opensuse.us  Sat Aug  8 21:41:23 2009
From: thudfoo at opensuse.us (member thudfoo)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 18:41:23 -0700
Subject: Is "feedparser" deprecated?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4a7c7a8d$0$1661$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	
Message-ID: <3d881a310908081841x17235cf1rd38418b119dd7b4d@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 6:10 PM, Gabriel Genellina wrote:

> En Fri, 07 Aug 2009 16:07:48 -0300, John Nagle 
> escribi?:
>
>    Feedparser requires SGMLlib, which has been removed from Python 3.0.
>> Feedparser hasn't been updated since 2007. Does this mean Feedparser
>> is dead?
>>
>
> Since we have generic and easy of use XML parsers like ElementTree and
> lxml,  specialized rss parsers like feedparser are not so much required.
> I've used ElementTree when I had to parse an rss feed in the past (not so
> many times).
>
> --
> Gabriel Genellina
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

feedparser is much more than than an just  another xml
 parser.

Read its documetion.
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From zac256 at gmail.com  Sat Aug  8 21:52:17 2009
From: zac256 at gmail.com (Zac Burns)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 18:52:17 -0700
Subject: Why all the __double_underscored_vars__?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: <333edbe80908081852i4fd753er5656216cbb1b06e2@mail.gmail.com>

As I understand it, the double underscores is to create a namespace
"reserved for python's internal use". That way python can add more
variables and methods in the future and as long as people respect the
namespace their code will not break with future revisions.

--
Zachary Burns
(407)590-4814
Aim - Zac256FL
Production Engineer (Digital Overlord)
Zindagi Games


From dstanek at dstanek.com  Sat Aug  8 23:15:36 2009
From: dstanek at dstanek.com (David Stanek)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 23:15:36 -0400
Subject: Is "feedparser" deprecated?
In-Reply-To: <4a7c7a8d$0$1661$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
References: <4a7c7a8d$0$1661$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: 

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 3:07 PM, John Nagle wrote:
> ?Feedparser requires SGMLlib, which has been removed from Python 3.0.
> Feedparser hasn't been updated since 2007. Does this mean Feedparser
> is dead?
>

The release is from 2007, but there are several recent commits.

http://code.google.com/p/feedparser/source/list


-- 
David
blog: http://www.traceback.org
twitter: http://twitter.com/dstanek


From michaelmossey at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 00:43:32 2009
From: michaelmossey at gmail.com (Michael Mossey)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 21:43:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: help with threads
References: <5a744bd6-6b9a-4f46-97c1-bb7fd65b8f4c@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<949b87d5-8cff-444a-b6ba-23d49610d130@p36g2000vbn.googlegroups.com> 
	 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 7, 5:03?pm, Piet van Oostrum  wrote:
> >>>>> Michael Mossey  (MM) wrote:
> >MM> Ah yes, that explains it. Some of these long computations are done in
> >MM> pure C, so I'm sure the GIL is not being released.
>
> Is that C code under your own control? Or at least the glue from Python
> to C? In that case, and if the C code is not manipulating Python objects
> or something in the Python interpreter, it could be changed to release
> the GIL during the computation. That's also how Numpy does it, IIRC.
> --
> Piet van Oostrum 
> URL:http://pietvanoostrum.com[PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
> Private email: p... at vanoostrum.org

I don't have any control over this code, and it's easier to solve my
problem in other ways. I just put a sleep() call between calls to the
C library, and that gives the network thread enough responsiveness for
my particular task. I am grateful, anyway, to understand why this kind
of thing happens.


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Aug  9 00:49:08 2009
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 06:49:08 +0200
Subject: .h files?
In-Reply-To: <50c453d9-d455-4f08-959c-e225149495fb@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
References: <50c453d9-d455-4f08-959c-e225149495fb@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a7e5544$0$2550$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

> Question.  Seems that with python distributions you have the option to
> include either "external facing, public" *.h files, and make them
> available, or include the whole kit and kaboodle [all *.h files].

What python distributions are you referring to? The ones I know don't
make this distinction; there is only a single set of header files that
you can choose to install.

Regards,
Martin


From nipunreddevil at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 00:51:20 2009
From: nipunreddevil at gmail.com (nipun batra)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 10:21:20 +0530
Subject: Serial port access
In-Reply-To: <1e61b3260908081820r702a4e24s6599fa724c97344a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1e61b3260908080934g1ff65580k5836648db436b336@mail.gmail.com>
	<50697b2c0908081341o63636f36i99b5971fdb0bbb57@mail.gmail.com>
	<1e61b3260908081820r702a4e24s6599fa724c97344a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1e61b3260908082151l1fed2afena6db9bc239da5c6a@mail.gmail.com>

Ok i managed to comunicate serially using pySerial,but only using Idle. but
when i use it within Geany or Gedit,i get following errors
Traceback most recent call last
File "serial.py",line 3,in module
import serial
File"/home/nipun/serial.py",line 5,in module
ser=serial.Serial()
Attribute error:module object has no attribute Serial

how can i make it work?
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From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 01:16:53 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 22:16:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com> 
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro ups.com> 
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	 
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<7xk51fgazf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
	
	
	
	<0006817d$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> 
	<7xd476rj1s.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: 

Paul Rubin  wrote:
> Stephen, Alex, etc.: have you actually used the php.net doc system?
> Don't knock it til you've tried it. ?IMO it is superior to Python's
> system. ?

I've tried it, a lot. Is it okay for me to keep criticising it now, or
would you like some time to find some other allusion to ignorance with
which to wave away my opinion?


From kwatch at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 01:37:03 2009
From: kwatch at gmail.com (kwatch)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 22:37:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [ANN] pyKook 0.0.3 - a smart build tool similar to Make, Rake, or Ant
Message-ID: <06fbfe63-2ee2-4669-91cc-2df12ea4bd86@i4g2000prm.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I have released pyKook 0.0.3.
http://pypi.python.org/pypi/Kook/0.0.3
http://www.kuwata-lab.com/kook/
http://www.kuwata-lab.com/kook/pykook-users-guide.html

In this release, recipe syntax is changed (see below).


Overview
========

pyKook is a smart build tool similar to Make, Rake, Ant, or Cook.
pyKook regards software project as cooking.
Terms used in pyKook are cooking terms.
For example:

    cookbook    -  Makefile
    product     -  target file
    ingredient  -  source file
    recipe      -  how to create target from source
    spices      -  command-line options for recipe


Cookbook (= Makefile) is written in pure Python.
You can write any statements or expressions in cookbook.

NOTICE: pyKook is under alpha release. Spec and features may be
changed
in the future without previous announcement.


Example
=======

Example of cookbook (Kookbook.py):

    --------------------------------------------------
    ##
    ## properties
    ##
    cc     = prop('cc',     'gcc')
    cflags = prop('cflags', '-g -Wall')


    ##
    ## recipes
    ##
    @recipe
    @ingreds("hello")
    def all(c):        # or task_all(c)
        pass

    @recipe
    @product("hello")
    @ingreds("hello.o")
    def file_command(c):
        """generates hello command"""
        system(c%"$(cc) $(cflags) -o $(product) $(ingred)")

    @recipe
    @product("*.o")
    @ingreds("$(1).c", if_exists("$(1).h"))
    def file_ext_o(c):
        """compile '*.c' and '*.h'"""
        system(c%"$(cc) $(cflags) -c $(1).c")

    @recipe
    def clean(c):
        rm_f("*.o")
    --------------------------------------------------


Exampe of result:

    --------------------------------------------------
    bash> ls
    Kookbook.py   hello.c    hello.h

    bash> pykook -l
    Properties:
      cc                  : 'gcc'
      cflags              : '-g -Wall'

    Task recipes:
      all                 : cook all products
      clean               : remove by-products

    File recipes:
      hello               : generates hello command
      *.o                 : compile '*.c' and '*.h'

    (Tips: you can set 'kook_default_product' variable in your
kookbook.)

    bash> pykook all           # or, pykook --cc=gcc4 all
    ### *** hello.o (func=file_ext_o)
    $ gcc -g -Wall -c hello.c
    ### ** hello (func=file_command)
    $ gcc -g -Wall -o hello hello.o
    ### * all (func=task_all)
    --------------------------------------------------


See users-guide for more details.
http://www.kuwata-lab.com/kook/pykook-users-guide.html


Enhancements, Changes, Bug fixes sice 0.0.2
===========================================


Changes
-------

  - IMPORTANT!!
    New '@recipe' decorator is required for each recipe function.
    If function is decorated by '@recipe', 'task_' prefix is not
necessary.

    ex:
      ## previous version
  	  def task_clean(c):    # 'task_' prefix is required
  	    rm_rf("*.o")

      ## since this release
  	  @release              # @release decorator is required
  	  def clean(c):         # 'task_' prefix is not necessary
  	    rm_rf("*.o")

    See http://www.kuwata-lab.com/kook/pykook-users-guide.html#cookbook-recipekind
  	for details.

  - Library codes are much refactored.


Enhancements
------------

  - IMPORTANT!!
    New feature to support command-line script framework.
    You can convert Kookbook.py into command-line script.
	See http://www.kuwata-lab.com/kook/pykook-users-guide.html#topic-framework
	for details.

  - New command-line option '-n' (no exec) supported.
    If you specify '-n', commands such as 'cp()' or 'rm()' are not
executed.
	In other words, '-n' means 'dry-run'.

  - Add a lot of test scripts.


Bug fixes
---------

  - A bug related timestamp detection is now fixed.
    There was a case that product file was not updated even when
    ingredient files were updated.

  - A bug about recipe tree is fixed. There was a case that the same
recipe
    can be invoke more than once when an intermediate recipe was
required
    from several recipes.



Have fun!

--
regards,
makoto kuwata


From rylesny at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 03:49:42 2009
From: rylesny at gmail.com (ryles)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 00:49:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to do relpath implementation on 2.5
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 8, 9:08?pm, Brian Allen Vanderburg II
 wrote:
> I've coded my own 'relpath' implementation for 2.5 (shown below) and I
> want to make sure it follows as closely as it should to 2.6 and later. ?
> I've got a question regarding that. ?When attempting to convert to a
> relative path and it is not possible for some reason (different drive or
> UNC share), should that be an error or should it return the absolute
> path of the target? ?I'm using Debian so I don't have 2.6 available
> right now for testing.

Usually Python source code is easily browsed at:

http://svn.python.org/view/

Unfortunately the server is down right now.

The implementation in 2.6 raises a ValueError exception. Here is the
function from ntpath.py:

def relpath(path, start=curdir):
    """Return a relative version of a path"""

    if not path:
        raise ValueError("no path specified")
    start_list = abspath(start).split(sep)
    path_list = abspath(path).split(sep)
    if start_list[0].lower() != path_list[0].lower():
        unc_path, rest = splitunc(path)
        unc_start, rest = splitunc(start)
        if bool(unc_path) ^ bool(unc_start):
            raise ValueError("Cannot mix UNC and non-UNC paths (%s and
%s)"
                                                                %
(path, start))
        else:
            raise ValueError("path is on drive %s, start on drive %s"
                                                % (path_list[0],
start_list[0]))
    # Work out how much of the filepath is shared by start and path.
    for i in range(min(len(start_list), len(path_list))):
        if start_list[i].lower() != path_list[i].lower():
            break
    else:
        i += 1

    rel_list = [pardir] * (len(start_list)-i) + path_list[i:]
    if not rel_list:
        return curdir
    return join(*rel_list)


From asmodai at in-nomine.org  Sun Aug  9 04:41:11 2009
From: asmodai at in-nomine.org (Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 10:41:11 +0200
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	<2qcrk6-doj.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	
	
	
Message-ID: <20090809084111.GB30241@nexus.in-nomine.org>

-On [20090808 20:07], Thorsten Kampe (thorsten at thorstenkampe.de) wrote:
>In real life people won't even notice whether an application takes one or
>two minutes to complete.

I think you are quite wrong here.

I have worked with optical engineers who needed to calculate grating numbers
for their lenses. If they can have a calculation program that runs in 1
minute instead of 2 they can effectively double their output during the day
(since they run calculations hundreds to thousand times a day to get the
most optimal results with minor tweaks).

I think you are being a bit too easy on hand waving here that mere minute
runtimes are not noticeable.

-- 
Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven  / asmodai
????? ?????? ??? ?? ??????
http://www.in-nomine.org/ | http://www.rangaku.org/ | GPG: 2EAC625B
When we have not what we like, we must like what we have...


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Aug  9 04:48:16 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 09 Aug 2009 08:48:16 GMT
Subject: Why all the __double_underscored_vars__?
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <00081096$0$2954$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 12:11:19 +0000, kj wrote:

> In  Chris Rebert
>  writes:
> 
>>The double-underscores indicate that the Python interpreter itself
>>usually is the caller of the method, and as such some level of "magic"
>>may be associated with it. Other languages have you do the equivalent of
>>`def +():` or `def operator +()` to override an operator, the keyword or
>>symbol serving a similar warning that "here be magic".
> 
> In this case, then I hope that some of these __items__ get demoted to a
> more mundane level, so that the notion of "magic" doesn't get
> trivialized by everyday idioms like:
> 
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     # etc

But that is magic, and just because it's magic doesn't mean it's not 
useful every day.

I don't see what's so difficult about telling your students that double 
underscore names have special meaning to the Python interpreter. That 
doesn't mean you're forbidden from using them, or that you have to use 
them, it just means that they have a special meaning to the interpreter, 
and you usually don't call them directly.



-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Aug  9 05:07:31 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 09 Aug 2009 09:07:31 GMT
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	
	
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro
	ups.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <00081519$0$2954$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 20:27:49 +0100, Mark Lawrence wrote:

> Further, I have seen many requests here which are nothing really to do
> with Python, say a query about which algorithm to use.  Response "Not
> really a Python question, but try ...".  Put the same question on (say)
> the C ng and you'd be told in no uncertain terms to Foxtrot Oscar.

We're a lot friendlier than the C newsgroup.

Personally, I think knowing the right algorithm to use is as much a part 
of Python programming as knowing whether to call mystring.upper() or 
string.upper(mystring).


-- 
Steven


From mh at pixar.com  Sun Aug  9 05:37:52 2009
From: mh at pixar.com (mh at pixar.com)
Date: 09 Aug 2009 09:37:52 GMT
Subject: tracing openurl input and output?
Message-ID: <4a7e98f0$0$9288$386e9d2@news.usenetserver.com>

How can I watch the messages being sent back and for on urllib shttp
requests?  If it were simple http I would just watch the socket traffic
but of course that won't work for https.  Is there a debug flag I can
set that will do this?

context:  I am dealing with a web service bug and I want to tell
the provider exactly what is going back and forth to his server,
eliminating the "maybe there's a bug in your library" chat.

    import urllib
    params = urllib.urlencode({'spam': 1, 'eggs': 2, 'bacon': 0})
    f = urllib.urlopen("https://example.com/cgi-bin/query", params)

Many TIA!

-- 
Mark Harrison
Pixar Animation Studios


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Aug  9 06:01:25 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 09 Aug 2009 10:01:25 GMT
Subject: unicode() vs. s.decode()
References: 
	
	<2qcrk6-doj.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	
	<028b1ce0$0$5185$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<556b00a3-bbbf-4076-a300-d20839a313c8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<0006746a$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<41a0l6-2u4.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	
Message-ID: <000821ba$0$2954$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 19:00:11 +0200, Thorsten Kampe wrote:

>> I was running it one million times to mitigate influences on the timing
>> by other background processes which is a common technique when
>> benchmarking.
> 
> Err, no. That is what "repeat" is for and it defaults to 3 ("This means
> that other processes running on the same computer may interfere with the
> timing. The best thing to do when accurate timing is necessary is to
> repeat the timing a few times and use the best time. [...] the default
> of 3 repetitions is probably enough in most cases.")


It's useful to look at the timeit module to see what the author(s) think.

Let's start with the repeat() method. In the Timer docstring:

"The repeat() method is a convenience to call timeit() multiple times and 
return a list of results."

and the repeat() method's own docstring:

"This is a convenience function that calls the timeit() repeatedly, 
returning a list of results.  The first argument specifies how many times 
to call timeit(), defaulting to 3; the second argument specifies the 
timer argument, defaulting to one million."

So it's quite obvious that the module author(s), and possibly even Tim 
Peters himself, consider repeat() to be a mere convenience method. 
There's nothing you can do with repeat() that can't be done with the 
timeit() method itself.

Notice that both repeat() and timeit() methods take an argument to 
specify how many times to execute the code snippet. Why not just execute 
it once? The module doesn't say, but the answer is a basic measurement 
technique: if your clock is accurate to (say) a millisecond, and you 
measure a single event as taking a millisecond, then your relative error 
is roughly 100%. But if you time 1000 events, and measure the total time 
as 1 second, the relative error is now 0.1%.

The authors of the timeit module obvious considered this an important 
factor: not only did they allow you to specify the number of times to 
execute the code snippet (defaulting to one million, not to one) but they 
had this to say:

[quote]
Command line usage:
    python timeit.py [-n N] [-r N] [-s S] [-t] [-c] [-h] [statement]

Options:
  -n/--number N: how many times to execute 'statement'
 [...]

If -n is not given, a suitable number of loops is calculated by trying
successive powers of 10 until the total time is at least 0.2 seconds.
[end quote]

In other words, when calling the timeit module from the command line, by 
default it will choose a value for n that gives a sufficiently small 
relative error.

It's not an accident that timeit gives you two "count" parameters: the 
number of times to execute the code snippet per timing, and the number of 
timings. They control (partly) for different sources of error.



-- 
Steven


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Sun Aug  9 06:47:15 2009
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 9 Aug 2009 10:47:15 GMT
Subject: tracing openurl input and output?
References: <4a7e98f0$0$9288$386e9d2@news.usenetserver.com>
Message-ID: 

mh at pixar.com wrote:

> How can I watch the messages being sent back and for on urllib shttp
> requests?  If it were simple http I would just watch the socket traffic
> but of course that won't work for https.  Is there a debug flag I can
> set that will do this?
> 
> context:  I am dealing with a web service bug and I want to tell
> the provider exactly what is going back and forth to his server,
> eliminating the "maybe there's a bug in your library" chat.
> 
>     import urllib
>     params = urllib.urlencode({'spam': 1, 'eggs': 2, 'bacon': 0})
>     f = urllib.urlopen("https://example.com/cgi-bin/query", params)
> 
> Many TIA!
> 
If you are running on Windows then I'd say get hold of a copy of fiddler2 
(http://www.fiddler2.com/fiddler2/) and tell your code to use it as a 
proxy. It does an excellent job of capturing and decoding web traffic and 
even lets you modify packets as they go past. The only thing to watch for 
with https is that your code will see an invalid certificate as of course 
it sees fiddler's own self signed certificate instead of the original.

I'm not sure what Linux or Mac equivalents there might be (though in a 
pinch you can always run your code on one system and Fiddler on a different 
one).


From nipunreddevil at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 07:03:04 2009
From: nipunreddevil at gmail.com (nipun batra)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 16:33:04 +0530
Subject: String algo
Message-ID: <1e61b3260908090403o1b6c5a66w7c59a2bd29e193a1@mail.gmail.com>

I will be receiving data serially from another pc,.i can use any sort of
marker between two packets,i will be the person sending data as well after
reading it from some devices.But packet length is not constant.
each packet has this format:
201.535a56.65b4.56c89.565d
another packet could be :
4a5b6c7d
What i need is a program to store variables such as:var_a has value 4,var_b
has value 5,for second string.
I have to read and write data continuosly using serial port.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

From lokeshmaremalla at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 07:43:33 2009
From: lokeshmaremalla at gmail.com (Lokesh)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 04:43:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need help in configuration for TimedRotatingFileHandler
Message-ID: <7e6938ce-91c9-4b65-980f-46d76bf69220@d36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

Need help in configure the TimedRotatingFileHandler from configuration
file

I have tried with the below code and ended up with the error, code is
pasted below
Error - IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'G:\\lok_sib\
\logs\rotate_test'
[loggers]
keys=root,simpleExample

[handlers]
keys=consoleHandler,timedRotatingFileHandler

[formatters]
keys=simpleFormatter

[logger_root]
level=DEBUG
handlers=consoleHandler

[logger_simpleExample]
level=DEBUG
handlers=timedRotatingFileHandler
qualname=simpleExample
propagate=0

[handler_consoleHandler]
class=StreamHandler
level=DEBUG
formatter=simpleFormatter
args=(sys.stdout,)

[handler_timedRotatingFileHandler]
class=handlers.TimedRotatingFileHandler
level=DEBUG
formatter=simpleFormatter
args=("G:\lok_sib\logs\rotate_test", 'midnight', 1)

[formatter_simpleFormatter]
format=%(asctime)s - %(name)s - %(levelname)s - %(message)s
datefmt='%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S'


Thanks or your time
Regards,
Lokesh


From gert.cuykens at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 08:14:33 2009
From: gert.cuykens at gmail.com (gert)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 05:14:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: resume upload wsgi script
Message-ID: <36993141-188c-4b13-8819-e60516d27437@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

I working on a resume upload script and encountered the following
problems

sql: Could not decode to UTF-8 column 'SUBSTR(picture,?)' with text
'\ufffd\ufff
d\ufffd\ufffd?!Exif------------Ef1gL6KM7Ij5ae0gL6KM7cH2cH2GI3
Content-Disposition: form-data; name="Filename"

DSC00013.JPG
------------Ef1

when I dont use SUBSTR or  COALESCE and || it works

def application(environ, response):
    range=environ.get('HTTP_RANGE','bytes=0-').replace
('bytes=','').split(',')
    offset=[]
    for r in range: offset.append(r.split('-'))
    db.execute('UPDATE users SET picture=SUBSTR(picture,?) WHERE
uid=?', (offset[0][0],s.UID))

    chunk=environ['wsgi.input'].read(int(environ
['CONTENT_LENGTH'])).decode('latin1')
    db.execute('UPDATE users SET picture=COALESCE(picture,?)||? WHERE
uid=?', (''.encode('latin1'),chunk.encode('latin1'), s.UID))

    #while True:
    #      chunk=environ['wsgi.input'].read(8192).decode('latin1')
    #      if not chunk: break
    #      db.execute("UPDATE users SET picture=COALESCE
(picture,'')||? WHERE uid=?", (chunk, s.UID))

the following is the POST clean up when PUT is not used, does anyone
know how to do this without loading the complete blob into memory ?

    db.execute('SELECT picture FROM users WHERE uid=?',(s.UID,))
    f=db.fetch()
    b=environ['CONTENT_TYPE'].split('boundary=')[1]
    p=search(b+r'.*?Content-Type: application/octet-stream\r\n\r\n(.*?)
\r\n--'+b,f[0][0].decode('latin1'),DOTALL).group(1)
    db.execute('UPDATE users SET picture=? WHERE uid=?', (p.encode
('latin1'), s.UID))



From manu3d at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 08:32:46 2009
From: manu3d at gmail.com (Emanuele D'Arrigo)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 05:32:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: exec("dir()",d)
Message-ID: <9adbf402-3e7e-44a4-adb3-afc36d5d88ba@33g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>

Greetings everybody,

I don't quite understand why if I do this:

>>> d = {}
>>> exec("dir()", d)

1) d is no longer empty
2) the content of d now looks like __builtins__.__dict__ but isn't
quite it d == __builtins__.__dict__ returns false.

Can anybody shed some light?

Manu


From mwilson at the-wire.com  Sun Aug  9 08:50:41 2009
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 08:50:41 -0400
Subject: exec("dir()",d)
References: <9adbf402-3e7e-44a4-adb3-afc36d5d88ba@33g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Emanuele D'Arrigo wrote:

> Greetings everybody,
> 
> I don't quite understand why if I do this:
> 
>>>> d = {}
>>>> exec("dir()", d)
> 
> 1) d is no longer empty
> 2) the content of d now looks like __builtins__.__dict__ but isn't
> quite it d == __builtins__.__dict__ returns false.
> 
> Can anybody shed some light?

You should check up on what exec does.  In this case it runs a string 
containing code using dictionary `d` as its global namespace, and so `d` has 
to contain the usual global namespace symbols -- otherwise `dict` can't 
work.  `__builtins__.__dict__ is one of the elements in the global 
namespace, not the namespace itself.  Another example:


Python 2.6.2 (release26-maint, Apr 19 2009, 01:56:41) 
[GCC 4.3.3] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> a=7
>>> d={'b':a}
>>> exec ("print b", d)
7
>>> d
{'__builtins__': {'bytearray': , 'IndexError': , 'all': , 'help': Type 
help() for interactive help, or help(object) for help about object., 'vars': 
, 'SyntaxError': , 
'unicode': , 'UnicodeDecodeError': , 'isinstance': , 'copyright': Copyright (c) 2001-2009 Python Software 
Foundation.
[ ... ]
'AssertionError': , 'classmethod': , 'UnboundLocalError': , 
'NotImplementedError': , 
'AttributeError': , 'OverflowError': }, 'b': 7}
>>> 

To get rid of the name error, you'd need
d={}
d['d'] = d
exec ("dir (d)", d)


	Mel.



From lists at cheimes.de  Sun Aug  9 09:01:48 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 15:01:48 +0200
Subject: exec("dir()",d)
In-Reply-To: <9adbf402-3e7e-44a4-adb3-afc36d5d88ba@33g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
References: <9adbf402-3e7e-44a4-adb3-afc36d5d88ba@33g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Emanuele D'Arrigo schrieb:
> Greetings everybody,
> 
> I don't quite understand why if I do this:
> 
>>>> d = {}
>>>> exec("dir()", d)
> 
> 1) d is no longer empty
> 2) the content of d now looks like __builtins__.__dict__ but isn't
> quite it d == __builtins__.__dict__ returns false.
> 
> Can anybody shed some light?

RTFM helps ;) http://docs.python.org/reference/simple_stmts.html#exec

As a side effect, an implementation may insert additional keys into the 
dictionaries given besides those corresponding to variable names set by 
the executed code. For example, the current implementation may add a 
reference to the dictionary of the built-in module __builtin__ under the 
key __builtins__ (!).

Christian



From samwyse at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 09:13:38 2009
From: samwyse at gmail.com (samwyse)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 06:13:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: setting Referer for urllib.urlretrieve
Message-ID: <1668f798-0a73-47a5-9f87-34312109c67c@v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

Here's what I have so far:

import urllib

class AppURLopener(urllib.FancyURLopener):
    version = "App/1.7"
    referrer = None
    def __init__(self, *args):
        urllib.FancyURLopener.__init__(self, *args)
        if self.referrer:
            addheader('Referer', self.referrer)

urllib._urlopener = AppURLopener()

Unfortunately, the 'Referer' header potentially varies for each url
that I retrieve, and the way the module is written, I can't change the
calls to __init__ or open. The best idea I've had is to assign a new
value to my class variable just before calling urllib.urlretrieve(),
but that just seems ugly.  Any ideas?  Thanks.

PS for anyone not familiar with the RFCs:  Yes, I'm spelling
"referrer" correctly everywhere in my code.


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Sun Aug  9 09:14:20 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 15:14:20 +0200
Subject: Serial port access
In-Reply-To: <1e61b3260908081820r702a4e24s6599fa724c97344a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1e61b3260908080934g1ff65580k5836648db436b336@mail.gmail.com>
	<50697b2c0908081341o63636f36i99b5971fdb0bbb57@mail.gmail.com>
	<1e61b3260908081820r702a4e24s6599fa724c97344a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200908091514.20684.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Sunday 09 August 2009 03:20:12 nipun batra wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 2:11 AM, Chris Rebert  wrote:
> > On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 12:34 PM, nipun batra
> >
> > wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > > How can we access serial port using usb-serial converters,using python
> > > in linux.
> >
> > PySerial might also be an option:
> > http://pyserial.sourceforge.net/index.html
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Chris
> > --
> > http://blog.rebertia.com
>
> pySerial mentions about serial ports but not about usb-serial.Can i do
> something like convert my usb-serial to act as serial port and then use
> pySerial

You can also look in the /dev directory to see which tty is created when you
plug in the usb to serial converter, and use that /dev/ttySx as a file, 
reading and writing to it directly.

You will need this information whatever you do, as you will need to specify
which port to use, to whatever software you choose to use.

- Hendrik


From deets at nospam.web.de  Sun Aug  9 09:17:39 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 15:17:39 +0200
Subject: resume upload wsgi script
In-Reply-To: <36993141-188c-4b13-8819-e60516d27437@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: <36993141-188c-4b13-8819-e60516d27437@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7e80jlF2etv0kU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

gert schrieb:
> I working on a resume upload script and encountered the following
> problems
> 
> sql: Could not decode to UTF-8 column 'SUBSTR(picture,?)' with text
> '\ufffd\ufff
> d\ufffd\ufffd?!Exif------------Ef1gL6KM7Ij5ae0gL6KM7cH2cH2GI3
> Content-Disposition: form-data; name="Filename"

You are treating a binary data column as if it were a string. That's 
bogus, you need to use a blob column.

Also I wouldn't combine the uplodaded chunks until the full upload is 
finished - and even then only if I actually need the data.

Diez


From gert.cuykens at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 09:31:12 2009
From: gert.cuykens at gmail.com (gert)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 06:31:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: resume upload wsgi script
References: <36993141-188c-4b13-8819-e60516d27437@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<7e80jlF2etv0kU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 9, 3:17?pm, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
> gert schrieb:
>
> > I working on a resume upload script and encountered the following
> > problems
>
> > sql: Could not decode to UTF-8 column 'SUBSTR(picture,?)' with text
> > '\ufffd\ufff
> > d\ufffd\ufffd?!Exif------------Ef1gL6KM7Ij5ae0gL6KM7cH2cH2GI3
> > Content-Disposition: form-data; name="Filename"
>
> You are treating a binary data column as if it were a string. That's
> bogus, you need to use a blob column.
>
> Also I wouldn't combine the uplodaded chunks until the full upload is
> finished - and even then only if I actually need the data.
>
> Diez

And the best solution would be to use TEXT instead or some sort of
SUBBIN that i do not know of in sqlite ?



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Aug  9 10:41:05 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 09 Aug 2009 14:41:05 GMT
Subject: setting Referer for urllib.urlretrieve
References: <1668f798-0a73-47a5-9f87-34312109c67c@v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <028ed082$0$20617$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 06:13:38 -0700, samwyse wrote:

> Here's what I have so far:
> 
> import urllib
> 
> class AppURLopener(urllib.FancyURLopener):
>     version = "App/1.7"
>     referrer = None
>     def __init__(self, *args):
>         urllib.FancyURLopener.__init__(self, *args)
>         if self.referrer:
>             addheader('Referer', self.referrer)
> 
> urllib._urlopener = AppURLopener()
> 
> Unfortunately, the 'Referer' header potentially varies for each url that
> I retrieve, and the way the module is written, I can't change the calls
> to __init__ or open. The best idea I've had is to assign a new value to
> my class variable just before calling urllib.urlretrieve(), but that
> just seems ugly.  Any ideas?  Thanks.

[Aside: an int variable is an int. A str variable is a str. A list 
variable is a list. A class variable is a class. You probably mean a 
class attribute, not a variable. If other languages want to call it a 
variable, or a sausage, that's their problem.]

If you're prepared for a bit of extra work, you could take over all the 
URL handling instead of relying on automatic openers. This will give you 
much finer control, but it will also require more effort on your part. 
The basic idea is, instead of installing openers, and then ask the urllib 
module to handle the connection, you handle the connection yourself:

make a Request object using urllib2.Request
make an Opener object using urllib2.build_opener
call opener.open(request) to connect to the server
deal with the connection (retry, fail or read)

Essentially, you use the Request object instead of a URL, and you would 
add the appropriate referer header to the Request object.

Another approach, perhaps a more minimal change than the above, would be 
something like this:

# untested
class AppURLopener(urllib.FancyURLopener):
    version = "App/1.7"
    def __init__(self, *args):
        urllib.FancyURLopener.__init__(self, *args)
    def add_referrer(self, url=None):
        if url:
            addheader('Referer', url)

urllib._urlopener = AppURLopener()
urllib._urlopener.add_referrer("http://example.com/")



-- 
Steven


From deets at nospam.web.de  Sun Aug  9 10:42:11 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 16:42:11 +0200
Subject: resume upload wsgi script
In-Reply-To: 
References: <36993141-188c-4b13-8819-e60516d27437@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<7e80jlF2etv0kU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
Message-ID: <7e85i3F2fdc1eU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

gert schrieb:
> On Aug 9, 3:17 pm, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
>> gert schrieb:
>>
>>> I working on a resume upload script and encountered the following
>>> problems
>>> sql: Could not decode to UTF-8 column 'SUBSTR(picture,?)' with text
>>> '\ufffd\ufff
>>> d\ufffd\ufffd?!Exif------------Ef1gL6KM7Ij5ae0gL6KM7cH2cH2GI3
>>> Content-Disposition: form-data; name="Filename"
>> You are treating a binary data column as if it were a string. That's
>> bogus, you need to use a blob column.
>>
>> Also I wouldn't combine the uplodaded chunks until the full upload is
>> finished - and even then only if I actually need the data.
>>
>> Diez
> 
> And the best solution would be to use TEXT instead or some sort of
> SUBBIN that i do not know of in sqlite ?
> 

No, the best solution would be to use "BLOB", and no SUB*-stuff, but 
instead a 1:n-relation of chunks, that when the upload is finished you 
can easily combine in python to one large blob, storing that in the DB 
again.

Diez


From kushal.kumaran+python at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 10:58:14 2009
From: kushal.kumaran+python at gmail.com (Kushal Kumaran)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 20:28:14 +0530
Subject: Need help in configuration for TimedRotatingFileHandler
In-Reply-To: <7e6938ce-91c9-4b65-980f-46d76bf69220@d36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
References: <7e6938ce-91c9-4b65-980f-46d76bf69220@d36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1e364c4e0908090758m5daa8ec2td7109498d96569b7@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 5:13 PM, Lokesh wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Need help in configure the TimedRotatingFileHandler from configuration
> file
>
> I have tried with the below code and ended up with the error, code is
> pasted below
> Error - IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'G:\\lok_sib\
> \logs\rotate_test'

Does the directory G:\\lok_sib\\logs exist?

> 

-- 
kushal


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Sun Aug  9 11:15:32 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 17:15:32 +0200
Subject: Need help in configuration for TimedRotatingFileHandler
In-Reply-To: <7e6938ce-91c9-4b65-980f-46d76bf69220@d36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
References: <7e6938ce-91c9-4b65-980f-46d76bf69220@d36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

09-08-2009 Lokesh  wrote:

> I have tried with the below code and ended up with the error, code is
> pasted below
> Error - IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'G:\\lok_sib\
> \logs\rotate_test'

Note that: '\r' is listed (interpreted by Python as 'carriage return'
special character) and not '\\r' (which would mean '\' char + 'r' char).

Regards,
*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From koranthala at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 11:35:55 2009
From: koranthala at gmail.com (koranthala)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 08:35:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Twisted - how to get text for HTTP error responses
Message-ID: <3ae722aa-4e65-475c-b345-73b394779db8@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

Hi,
   I am writing a HTTP client in Twisted. The client contacts the
server, and any errors in the sent messages will be returned back to
the client in 400 message. The reason for failure at the server is
sent as the text in the 400 message. I tried the same using the
browser, and I can see the error text (the text might be like - 'Item
X not found in DB').
   The client is supposed to use this text and calculate the next
messages to be sent to the server. But, I cannot seem to find a
mechanism to get the response text from the errback. I went through
failure.py, but I couldnt find a way to do it.
   Ex:
I send a data to the server as so
d = defer.waitForDeferred(getPage(url, method='POST', headers=hdr,
postdata=form))
yield d
try:
   reply = d.getResult()
   success(reply)
except Error, failure:
   failure(failure)

Now, inside failure method, I was unable to print the text out - say
'Item X not found in DB'.
Is it possible using Twisted? If so, how can it be done?

Thanks in Advance
K



From rt8396 at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 12:04:48 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 09:04:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bug or feature: double strings as one
References: 
	  
	<000674d6$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <7c15f7b0-49f2-4210-bc7a-e82941e9ddd9@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 8, 12:43?pm, "Jan Kaliszewski"  wrote:
> 08-08-2009 Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
...(snip)
> I use it very often, e.g.:
>
> ? ? ? ? ?afunction('quite long string %s quite long string '
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?'quite long string quite long string %s '
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?'quite %s long string quite long string'
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?% (variable1, variable2, variable3))
>
> It seems nicer to me than:
>
> ? ? ? ? ?afunction(('quite long string %s quite long string '
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? + 'quite long string quite long string %s '
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? + 'quite %s long string quite long string')
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?% (variable1, variable2, variable3))
>
> (Note that multiline-'''-strings are usless in such cases).
>

uhh? A much better way to handle such a problem is like this...

prompt1 = '''
Some people like to use %s
ways of doing things just
so they can support their %s
way of coding
'''

afunction(prompt1 %(var1, var2))

WOW!, that just somehow looks more professional to me? I hate to long
strings in the middle of a code block. Please be smart when writing
code people!!



From julien.chevalier at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 12:22:40 2009
From: julien.chevalier at gmail.com (Kiki)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 09:22:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Client/Server based on SocketServer and Windows
Message-ID: 

Hello list,

I've written a small Client/server system.
Basically, i'm expecting something like : The client sends every once
and a while a small data chunk (not more than 50 bytes) the server
receive it and print it.

Here is the server request handler :

class ThreadedTCPRequestHandlerFoo(SocketServer.BaseRequestHandler):

    def handle(self):
	    data = self.request.recv(1024)
	    cur_thread = threading.currentThread()
            response = "%s: %s from Foo" % (cur_thread.getName(),
data)
            print response

and this is the client :

def clientPrompt(ip, port, message):
        sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
        sock.connect((ip, port))
	while(1):
		k=raw_input('#>')
		sock.send(k)
		print "%s\n" % k
		if k == 'quit': break
        sock.close()

My problem comes from that I can't send data from client more than
once without having the following Winsock error : 10053 Software
caused connection abort.
I have to restart the client each time I want to send a new message.

Could anyboy explain me why ?

Regards


From exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  Sun Aug  9 12:23:34 2009
From: exarkun at twistedmatrix.com (exarkun at twistedmatrix.com)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 16:23:34 -0000
Subject: Twisted - how to get text for HTTP error responses
In-Reply-To: <3ae722aa-4e65-475c-b345-73b394779db8@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
References: <3ae722aa-4e65-475c-b345-73b394779db8@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20090809162334.7171.12739707.divmod.xquotient.199@localhost.localdomain>

On 03:35 pm, koranthala at gmail.com wrote:
>Hi,
>   I am writing a HTTP client in Twisted. The client contacts the
>server, and any errors in the sent messages will be returned back to
>the client in 400 message. The reason for failure at the server is
>sent as the text in the 400 message. I tried the same using the
>browser, and I can see the error text (the text might be like - 'Item
>X not found in DB').
>   The client is supposed to use this text and calculate the next
>messages to be sent to the server. But, I cannot seem to find a
>mechanism to get the response text from the errback. I went through
>failure.py, but I couldnt find a way to do it.
>   Ex:
>I send a data to the server as so
>d = defer.waitForDeferred(getPage(url, method='POST', headers=hdr,
>postdata=form))
>yield d
>try:
>   reply = d.getResult()
>   success(reply)
>except Error, failure:
>   failure(failure)
>
>Now, inside failure method, I was unable to print the text out - say
>'Item X not found in DB'.
>Is it possible using Twisted? If so, how can it be done?

The Error instance which the local "failure" is bound to in your example 
above has a number of attributes, one of which is "status" which may be 
what you're looking for.  If not, take a look at its other attributes.

Jean-Paul


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Sun Aug  9 12:47:26 2009
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 11:47:26 -0500
Subject: String algo
In-Reply-To: <1e61b3260908090403o1b6c5a66w7c59a2bd29e193a1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1e61b3260908090403o1b6c5a66w7c59a2bd29e193a1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A7EFD9E.50805@tim.thechases.com>

nipun batra wrote:
> I will be receiving data serially from another pc,.i can use any sort of
> marker between two packets,i will be the person sending data as well after
> reading it from some devices.But packet length is not constant.
> each packet has this format:
> 201.535a56.65b4.56c89.565d
> another packet could be :
> 4a5b6c7d
> What i need is a program to store variables such as:var_a has value 4,var_b
> has value 5,for second string.
> I have to read and write data continuosly using serial port.

Sounds like you want to break apart your string at the 
non-numeric bits, and then create a mapping from them:

 >>> import re
 >>> s = "201.535a56.65b4.56c89.565d"
 >>> r = re.compile(r"(\d+(?:\.\d+)?)([a-z]+)", re.I)
 >>> r.findall(s)
[('201.535', 'a'), ('56.65', 'b'), ('4.56', 'c'), ('89.565', 'd')]
 >>> d = dict((k,float(v)) for v,k in r.findall(s))
 >>> print d['a']
201.535
 >>> print d['c']
4.56
 >>> print 'z' in d
False
 >>> print 'b' in d
True

Adjust the regexp accordingly if there are +/- signs, 
exponentiation, limits on the splitting-characters, etc.


-tkc









From b1540457 at tyldd.com  Sun Aug  9 13:02:03 2009
From: b1540457 at tyldd.com (Anny Mous)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 03:02:03 +1000
Subject: Bug or feature: double strings as one
References: 
	
	
	<000674d6$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<7c15f7b0-49f2-4210-bc7a-e82941e9ddd9@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

r wrote:

> On Aug 8, 12:43?pm, "Jan Kaliszewski"  wrote:

>> (Note that multiline-'''-strings are usless in such cases).
>>
> 
> uhh? A much better way to handle such a problem is like this...
> 
> prompt1 = '''
> Some people like to use %s
> ways of doing things just
> so they can support their %s
> way of coding
> '''

Oh wow, you so need to work on your reading comprehension skills! Didn't you
notice Jan's comment that multiline ''' strings are useless??? They add
extra newlines into the string which aren't wanted.

> WOW!, that just somehow looks more professional to me? I hate to long
> strings in the middle of a code block. Please be smart when writing
> code people!!

Because totally failing to pay attention to the requirements is "smart".





From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Sun Aug  9 13:10:52 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 19:10:52 +0200
Subject: Bug or feature: double strings as one
In-Reply-To: <7c15f7b0-49f2-4210-bc7a-e82941e9ddd9@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	
	<000674d6$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<7c15f7b0-49f2-4210-bc7a-e82941e9ddd9@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

09-08-2009 r  wrote:

> On Aug 8, 12:43?pm, "Jan Kaliszewski"  wrote:
>> 08-08-2009 Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
> ...(snip)
>> I use it very often, e.g.:
>>
>> ? ? ? ? ?afunction('quite long string %s quite long string '
>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?'quite long string quite long string %s '
>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?'quite %s long string quite long string'
>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?% (variable1, variable2, variable3))
>>
>> It seems nicer to me than:
>>
>> ? ? ? ? ?afunction(('quite long string %s quite long string '
>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? + 'quite long string quite long string %s '
>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? + 'quite %s long string quite long string')
>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?% (variable1, variable2, variable3))
>>
>> (Note that multiline-'''-strings are usless in such cases).
>>
>
> uhh? A much better way to handle such a problem is like this...
>
> prompt1 = '''
> Some people like to use %s
> ways of doing things just
> so they can support their %s
> way of coding
> '''

Sorry, you are wrong, '''-way would be usefull only if:

     * you want to have '\n' in each place where you wrap the
       literal in your code,

and

     * you use '''-literal at a module (non-indented) level

       or you need not only '\n'-s but also indentations
          (dependent on indentation of your code),

       or such ugly indentation is ok for you:

           some indentated code...
  ? ? ? ? ?prompt = '''quite long string %s quite long string
''' quite long string quite long string %s
''' quite %s long string quite long string
'''
           some indentated code...


That's why I wrote it's "useless in such cases."

Regards,
*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From no.i.dont at want.mail.from.spammers.com  Sun Aug  9 13:16:50 2009
From: no.i.dont at want.mail.from.spammers.com (Fencer)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 19:16:50 +0200
Subject: Problem with join in__str__() in class (newbie)
Message-ID: <7e8ek2F2dre5lU1@mid.individual.net>

Hello, I've written two classes. One class describes experts: experts 
has a unique ID and a name. An expert knows topics and other experts. A 
topic is described by my other class and includes a unique ID and a 
name. Now I have a problem with the __str__ method in my Expert class:

def __str__(self):
     output = '%s:%s' % (self.expert_id, self.name)
     output += '\nKnown topics: %s' % (', '.join(str(self.topics)))
#   print 'Known experts: '
#   for e in self.known_experts:
#       print '%s:%s' % (e.expert_id, e.name)
     return output

self.topics is a list of objects of type Topic.
self.known_experts is a list of objects of type Expert, specifically the 
experts known by the given expert.

When I print an object of type Expert, the output is not what I want. If 
the expert knows only one topic, say polemics, the output is:
e2:Carla
Known topics: t, 5, :, P, o, l, e, m, i, c, s
If the expert knows two topics, say Polemics and The Parthenon, then the 
  output is:
e2:Carla
Known topics: [, <, _, _, m, a, i, n, _, _, ., T, o, p, i, c,  , i, n, 
s, t, a, n, c, e,  , a, t,  , 0, x, 0, 2, 2, 2, D, 0, 8, 0, >, ]

This is not what I want. :) I want the output like this:
e2:Carla
Known topics: t5:Polemics, t6:The Parthenon

Also, notice the code I've commented out. If I can get the join above to 
work (with your help) my next question is how to present the known 
experts in a comma separated list with only expert_id and name? I can't 
use the normal __str__() method (the one I'm writing here) because it 
prints too much information. Does that mean a join is out of the question?

Thanks for any replies!

- Fencer


From jonrascal at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 13:28:13 2009
From: jonrascal at gmail.com (jon rascal)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 10:28:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Problem with join in__str__() in class (newbie)
References: <7e8ek2F2dre5lU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: 


> def __str__(self):
> ? ? ?output = '%s:%s' % (self.expert_id, self.name)
> ? ? ?output += '\nKnown topics: %s' % (', '.join(str(self.topics)))

You're turning your list into a string -- try this:
', '.join([str(x) for x in self.topics])


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 13:37:08 2009
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 10:37:08 -0700
Subject: Problem with join in__str__() in class (newbie)
In-Reply-To: <7e8ek2F2dre5lU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <7e8ek2F2dre5lU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c20908091037l2db51049v74b2e18efc927c25@mail.gmail.com>

   output += '\nKnown topics: %s' % (', '.join(str(self.topics)))


Your problem is here.

self.topics is a list of topic instances: but you're calling str() on the
list itself to turn the LIST itself into a string. Compare:

>>> x = [1,2,3]
>>> x
[1, 2, 3]
>>> str(x)
'[1, 2, 3]'

Now, after str(self.topics) is done, you have one big string. A string is a
sequence of characters (mostly). Calling ",".join(string) will do just what
you see there-- return a string with a comma between each character.

What you want to do, I assume, is call str() on each item in self.topics,
and join them.

That would be:

output += '\nKnown topics: %s' % ( ','.join(str(item) for item in
self.topics) )

That's a generator expression which will do what you want, I believe.
Provided your topic instances have a __str__ method that returns a string of
the form "t:".

Also, notice the code I've commented out. If I can get the join above to
> work (with your help) my next question is how to present the known experts
> in a comma separated list with only expert_id and name? I can't use the
> normal __str__() method (the one I'm writing here) because it prints too
> much information. Does that mean a join is out of the question?


Honestly, I think you are putting too much into the Expert class's __str__
method. I would make it do basically:

return "%s:%s" % (self.expert_id, self.name)

And then put the __str__ you're working on above in a different method which
does -- more. Call it 'dump' or something. That way you CAN just use the
normal str/__str__ from within this 'dump' and get what you want. str()
should return that object in its stringified form. Another method is a
better way to dump 'that object' and things 'around' it and that it 'knows'.

But if you really must have just str(expert) and have it return the big
chunk of information, your commented code looks about right. You'll have to
use your knowledge of how the internal expert class works instead of relying
on the experts just returning a str() of themselves. That's slightly bad.
But not horrible.

HTH,

--S
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From no.i.dont at want.mail.from.spammers.com  Sun Aug  9 13:42:23 2009
From: no.i.dont at want.mail.from.spammers.com (Fencer)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 19:42:23 +0200
Subject: Problem with join in__str__() in class (newbie)
In-Reply-To: 
References: <7e8ek2F2dre5lU1@mid.individual.net>
	
Message-ID: <7e8g3vF2etertU1@mid.individual.net>

jon rascal wrote:
> 
> You're turning your list into a string -- try this:
> ', '.join([str(x) for x in self.topics])

Thanks for your quick reply, unfortunately it didn't quite work for me.
Say topics contain two topics: polemics, and the parthenon I get this 
output:
e2:Carla
Known topics: t5:Polemics

only the first topic is printed. If topics only contain a single topic I 
get this error:
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "C:\Users\fencer\workspace\Find Expert\src\find_expert.py", line 
57, in 
     print experts[1]
   File "C:\Users\fencer\workspace\Find Expert\src\find_expert.py", line 
21, in __str__
     output += '\nKnown topics: %s' % (', '.join([str(x) for x in 
self.topics]))
TypeError: iteration over non-sequence

What did I do wrong?

- Fencer


From gert.cuykens at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 13:51:25 2009
From: gert.cuykens at gmail.com (gert)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 10:51:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: resume upload wsgi script
References: <36993141-188c-4b13-8819-e60516d27437@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<7e80jlF2etv0kU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	<7e85i3F2fdc1eU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <9cd75067-8839-44dd-9b42-4ffb15488b66@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 9, 4:42?pm, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
> gert schrieb:
>
>
>
> > On Aug 9, 3:17 pm, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
> >> gert schrieb:
>
> >>> I working on a resume upload script and encountered the following
> >>> problems
> >>> sql: Could not decode to UTF-8 column 'SUBSTR(picture,?)' with text
> >>> '\ufffd\ufff
> >>> d\ufffd\ufffd?!Exif------------Ef1gL6KM7Ij5ae0gL6KM7cH2cH2GI3
> >>> Content-Disposition: form-data; name="Filename"
> >> You are treating a binary data column as if it were a string. That's
> >> bogus, you need to use a blob column.
>
> >> Also I wouldn't combine the uplodaded chunks until the full upload is
> >> finished - and even then only if I actually need the data.
>
> >> Diez
>
> > And the best solution would be to use TEXT instead or some sort of
> > SUBBIN that i do not know of in sqlite ?
>
> No, the best solution would be to use "BLOB", and no SUB*-stuff, but
> instead a 1:n-relation of chunks, that when the upload is finished you
> can easily combine in python to one large blob, storing that in the DB
> again.
>
> Diez

so one table of chunks

CREATE TABLE temp (
    file_id  VARCHAR(64),
    chunK_id  INTEGER,
    chunk BLOB,
    PRIMARY KEY(file_id,chunk_id)
);

SELECT chunk FROM temp WHERE file_id = 'file'
concatenating result in python
update blob
delete temp

How do I concatenate results that do not fit into memory ?


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 14:06:44 2009
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 11:06:44 -0700
Subject: Problem with join in__str__() in class (newbie)
In-Reply-To: <7e8g3vF2etertU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <7e8ek2F2dre5lU1@mid.individual.net>
	
	<7e8g3vF2etertU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c20908091106u7a5464dey625220f211e69d58@mail.gmail.com>

>
> only the first topic is printed. If topics only contain a single topic I
> get this error:
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "C:\Users\fencer\workspace\Find Expert\src\find_expert.py", line 57,
> in 
>    print experts[1]
>  File "C:\Users\fencer\workspace\Find Expert\src\find_expert.py", line 21,
> in __str__
>    output += '\nKnown topics: %s' % (', '.join([str(x) for x in
> self.topics]))
> TypeError: iteration over non-sequence
>
> What did I do wrong?
>

It looks like, "if topics contains only a single topic", means:

    self.topics = MyTopic

was done at some point. What you should do is make self.topics ALWAYS be a
list: even if it's only a list of one item.

So you do

    self.topics.append(MyTopic)

when you add that one topic. That way self.topics is always a list.
Sometimes empty, sometimes containing one element, sometimes containing
many.

--S
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From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sun Aug  9 14:10:08 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 19:10:08 +0100
Subject: Problem with join in__str__() in class (newbie)
In-Reply-To: <7e8g3vF2etertU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <7e8ek2F2dre5lU1@mid.individual.net>	
	<7e8g3vF2etertU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <4A7F1100.5040203@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Fencer wrote:
> jon rascal wrote:
>>
>> You're turning your list into a string -- try this:
>> ', '.join([str(x) for x in self.topics])
> 
> Thanks for your quick reply, unfortunately it didn't quite work for me.
> Say topics contain two topics: polemics, and the parthenon I get this 
> output:
> e2:Carla
> Known topics: t5:Polemics
> 
> only the first topic is printed. If topics only contain a single topic I 
> get this error:
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "C:\Users\fencer\workspace\Find Expert\src\find_expert.py", line 
> 57, in 
>     print experts[1]
>   File "C:\Users\fencer\workspace\Find Expert\src\find_expert.py", line 
> 21, in __str__
>     output += '\nKnown topics: %s' % (', '.join([str(x) for x in 
> self.topics]))
> TypeError: iteration over non-sequence
> 
> What did I do wrong?
> 
Try printing self.topics. It should always be a list of topics.


From deets at nospam.web.de  Sun Aug  9 14:25:47 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 20:25:47 +0200
Subject: resume upload wsgi script
In-Reply-To: <9cd75067-8839-44dd-9b42-4ffb15488b66@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
References: <36993141-188c-4b13-8819-e60516d27437@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<7e80jlF2etv0kU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	<7e85i3F2fdc1eU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<9cd75067-8839-44dd-9b42-4ffb15488b66@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7e8ildF2f1hcpU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

gert schrieb:
> On Aug 9, 4:42 pm, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
>> gert schrieb:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Aug 9, 3:17 pm, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
>>>> gert schrieb:
>>>>> I working on a resume upload script and encountered the following
>>>>> problems
>>>>> sql: Could not decode to UTF-8 column 'SUBSTR(picture,?)' with text
>>>>> '\ufffd\ufff
>>>>> d\ufffd\ufffd?!Exif------------Ef1gL6KM7Ij5ae0gL6KM7cH2cH2GI3
>>>>> Content-Disposition: form-data; name="Filename"
>>>> You are treating a binary data column as if it were a string. That's
>>>> bogus, you need to use a blob column.
>>>> Also I wouldn't combine the uplodaded chunks until the full upload is
>>>> finished - and even then only if I actually need the data.
>>>> Diez
>>> And the best solution would be to use TEXT instead or some sort of
>>> SUBBIN that i do not know of in sqlite ?
>> No, the best solution would be to use "BLOB", and no SUB*-stuff, but
>> instead a 1:n-relation of chunks, that when the upload is finished you
>> can easily combine in python to one large blob, storing that in the DB
>> again.
>>
>> Diez
> 
> so one table of chunks
> 
> CREATE TABLE temp (
>     file_id  VARCHAR(64),
>     chunK_id  INTEGER,
>     chunk BLOB,
>     PRIMARY KEY(file_id,chunk_id)
> );
> 
> SELECT chunk FROM temp WHERE file_id = 'file'
> concatenating result in python
> update blob
> delete temp
> 
> How do I concatenate results that do not fit into memory ?

By writing them into one file? If files were to large for your memory, 
all the substring-stuff wouldn't help either - the sqlite works in the 
same memory as your program...

But how many gigabytes of uploads do you expect?

Diez


From no.i.dont at want.mail.from.spammers.com  Sun Aug  9 14:56:26 2009
From: no.i.dont at want.mail.from.spammers.com (Fencer)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 20:56:26 +0200
Subject: Problem with join in__str__() in class (newbie)
In-Reply-To: 
References: <7e8ek2F2dre5lU1@mid.individual.net>		<7e8g3vF2etertU1@mid.individual.net>
	
Message-ID: <7e8keqF2eib0lU1@mid.individual.net>

MRAB wrote:
> Try printing self.topics. It should always be a list of topics.

Ah, yes, that made me find a bug when I was creating the Expert objects: 
the lists of known topics were not created properly. I should have 
posted more code I suppose! Thanks for the help, this problem has now 
been solved. I guess I can't use a join to print the known experts as I 
described in my first post.

- Fencer


From Nikolaus at rath.org  Sun Aug  9 15:02:57 2009
From: Nikolaus at rath.org (Nikolaus Rath)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 15:02:57 -0400
Subject: Monkeypatching an object to become callable
Message-ID: <87hbwgu7xa.fsf@vostro.rath.org>

Hi,

I want to monkeypatch an object so that it becomes callable, although
originally it is not meant to be. (Yes, I think I do have a good reason
to do so).

But simply adding a __call__ attribute to the object apparently isn't
enough, and I do not want to touch the class object (since it would
modify all the instances):

>>> class foo(object):
...   pass
... 
>>> t = foo()
>>> def test():
...   print 'bar'
... 
>>> t()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
TypeError: 'foo' object is not callable
>>> t.__call__ = test
>>> t()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
TypeError: 'foo' object is not callable
>>> t.__call__()
bar


Is there an additional trick to get it to work?


Best,

   -Nikolaus

-- 
 ?Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a Banana.?

  PGP fingerprint: 5B93 61F8 4EA2 E279 ABF6  02CF A9AD B7F8 AE4E 425C


From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 15:26:54 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 12:26:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
Message-ID: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>

A friend of mine is just learning Python, and he's a bit tweaked about
how unrecognized escape sequences are treated in Python. This is from
the Python 3.0 reference manual:

     Unlike Standard C, all unrecognized escape sequences are left in
the string unchanged, i.e.,
     the backslash is left in the string. (This behavior is useful
when debugging: if an escape
     sequence is mistyped, the resulting output is more easily
recognized as broken.) It is also
     important to note that the escape sequences only recognized in
string literals fall into the
     category of unrecognized escapes for bytes literals.

My friend begs to differ with the above. It would be much better for
debugging if Python generated a parsing error for unrecognized escape
sequences, rather than leaving them unchanged. g++ outputs a warning
for such escape sequences, for instance. This is what I would consider
to be the correct behavior. (Actually, I think it should just generate
a fatal parsing error, but a warning is okay too.)

In any case, I think my friend should mellow out a bit, but we both
consider this something of a wart. He's just more wart-phobic than I
am. Is there any way that this behavior can be considered anything
other than a wart? Other than the unconvincing claim that you can use
this "feature" to save you a bit of typing sometimes when you actually
want a backslash to be in your string?

|>ouglas


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Sun Aug  9 16:15:22 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 22:15:22 +0200
Subject: Problem with join in__str__() in class (newbie)
References: <7e8ek2F2dre5lU1@mid.individual.net>
	
	<7e8g3vF2etertU1@mid.individual.net>
	
	<7e8keqF2eib0lU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Fencer  (F) wrote:

>F> Also, notice the code I've commented out. If I can get the join above to
>F> work (with your help) my next question is how to present the known experts
>F> in a comma separated list with only expert_id and name? I can't use the
>F> normal __str__() method (the one I'm writing here) because it prints too
>F> much information. Does that mean a join is out of the question?

>F> MRAB wrote:
>>> Try printing self.topics. It should always be a list of topics.

>F> Ah, yes, that made me find a bug when I was creating the Expert objects:
>F> the lists of known topics were not created properly. I should have posted
>F> more code I suppose! Thanks for the help, this problem has now been solved.
>F> I guess I can't use a join to print the known experts as I described in my
>F> first post.

Yes, you can. But you need an additional method that gives only the id
and name. Like this:

------------------------------------------------------------------------
class Expert:
    '''An expert'''
    def __init__(self, id, name, topics):
        self.expert_id = id
        self.name = name
        self.topics = topics
        self.known_experts = []
        
    def add_expert(self, expert):
        self.known_experts.append(expert)

    def __str__(self):
        output = (self.brief_str() +
                  '\nKnown topics: %s' % (', '.join(map(str, self.topics))) +
                  ('\nKnown experts: %s' %
                   (', '.join(exp.brief_str() for exp in self.known_experts))))
        return output

    def brief_str(self):
        '''Gives a brief description of the expert: just the id and name.'''
        return '%s:%s' % (self.expert_id, self.name)
    
class Topic:
    '''A topic'''
    def __init__(self, id, name):
        self.topic_id = id
        self.name = name

    def __str__(self):
        return '%s:%s' % (self.topic_id, self.name)

topic1 = Topic('t1', 'Relativity')
topic2 = Topic('t2', 'Math')
topic5 = Topic('t5', 'Polemics')
topic6 = Topic('t6', 'The Parthenon')

expert1 = Expert('e1', 'Albert', [topic1])
expert2 = Expert('e2', 'Leonhard', [topic2])

expert1.add_expert(expert2)

expert5 = Expert('e5', 'Carla', [topic5, topic6])
expert5.add_expert(expert1)
expert5.add_expert(expert2)

for ex in expert1, expert2, expert5:
    print ex
------------------------------------------------------------------------

(I prefer to use map instead of a list/iterator comprehension in this
particular case. With the known_experts that isn't possible, unless
brief_str is made into a static method)
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From victorsubervi at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 16:21:43 2009
From: victorsubervi at gmail.com (Victor Subervi)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 15:21:43 -0500
Subject: Surpressing Warnings
Message-ID: <4dc0cfea0908091321y54156d30sc0c4dc3a564eecab@mail.gmail.com>

Hi:
I get a ton of warnings like this from a program I run:

Warning (from warnings module):
  File "C:\Python25\read.py", line 67
    cursor.execute(sqlKWDrop)
Warning: Unknown table 'judaism_128'

How do I surpress them?
TIA,
Victor
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From missive at hotmail.com  Sun Aug  9 16:26:31 2009
From: missive at hotmail.com (Lee Harr)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 00:56:31 +0430
Subject: [ANNC] pybotwar-0.5
Message-ID: 


pybotwar is a fun and educational game where players
create computer programs to control simulated robots
to compete in a battle arena.

http://pybotwar.googlecode.com/


pybotwar uses pybox2d for the physical simulation,
and uses pygame and pygsear for the visualization.

pybotwar is released under GPLv3.


Changes in pybotwar-0.5:
    - added tournament mode
    - added explosive shells
    - robots are now damaged by colliding with walls or other robots
    - added damage sensor
    - added gyro sensor
    - added configurable cannon reload time
    - added robot statistics database
    - added time limit for robot startup/ initialization
    - health bar changes color below 30% health
    - fixed force/ torque possibly going over 100%
    - fixed problem with non-integer force/ torque values
    - each robot gets its own log file in test mode
    - send robot errors to log file
    - use optparse for cmd line options


_________________________________________________________________
More than messages?check out the rest of the Windows Live?.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/


From deets at nospam.web.de  Sun Aug  9 16:28:29 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 22:28:29 +0200
Subject: Monkeypatching an object to become callable
In-Reply-To: <87hbwgu7xa.fsf@vostro.rath.org>
References: <87hbwgu7xa.fsf@vostro.rath.org>
Message-ID: <7e8preF2d6adsU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Nikolaus Rath schrieb:
> Hi,
> 
> I want to monkeypatch an object so that it becomes callable, although
> originally it is not meant to be. (Yes, I think I do have a good reason
> to do so).
> 
> But simply adding a __call__ attribute to the object apparently isn't
> enough, and I do not want to touch the class object (since it would
> modify all the instances):
> 
>>>> class foo(object):
> ...   pass
> ... 
>>>> t = foo()
>>>> def test():
> ...   print 'bar'
> ... 
>>>> t()
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "", line 1, in 
> TypeError: 'foo' object is not callable
>>>> t.__call__ = test
>>>> t()
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "", line 1, in 
> TypeError: 'foo' object is not callable
>>>> t.__call__()
> bar
> 
> 
> Is there an additional trick to get it to work?

AFAIK special methods are always only evaluated on the class. But this 
works:

class Foo(object):

     pass

f = Foo()

def make_callable(f):
     class Callable(f.__class__):

         def __call__(self):
             print "foobar"

     f.__class__ = Callable

make_callable(f)
f()

Diez


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 16:34:12 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 13:34:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bug or feature: double strings as one
References: 
	  
	<000674d6$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	 
	<7c15f7b0-49f2-4210-bc7a-e82941e9ddd9@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: <21131b4b-67d3-4ddf-b061-60327d670ca7@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 9, 12:10?pm, "Jan Kaliszewski"  wrote:
..(snip)
> Sorry, you are wrong, '''-way would be usefull only if:
>
> ? ? ?* you want to have '\n' in each place where you wrap the
> ? ? ? ?literal in your code,
>
> and
>
> ? ? ?* you use '''-literal at a module (non-indented) level
>
> ? ? ? ?or you need not only '\n'-s but also indentations
> ? ? ? ? ? (dependent on indentation of your code),
>
> ? ? ? ?or such ugly indentation is ok for you:
>
> ? ? ? ? ? ?some indentated code...
> ? ? ? ? ? ?prompt = '''quite long string %s quite long string
> ''' quite long string quite long string %s
> ''' quite %s long string quite long string
> '''
> ? ? ? ? ? ?some indentated code...
>
> That's why I wrote it's "useless in such cases."

@ Jan & Anny

No, of course putting a multi-line string inside a block does not
solve anything. What i meant for you to do is to declare the string
outside the block or as a module level Constant. i typically declare
all multi-line strings (ig for dialog prompts etc..) right after my
globals at the top of my modules or within an imported module like...

from thisModuleConstants import *




From sajmikins at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 17:02:51 2009
From: sajmikins at gmail.com (Simon Forman)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 14:02:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: unique-ifying a list
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 7, 4:53?pm, kj  wrote:
> Suppose that x is some list. ?To produce a version of the list with
> duplicate elements removed one could, I suppose, do this:
>
> ? ? x = list(set(x))
>
> but I expect that this will not preserve the original order of
> elements.
>
> I suppose that I could write something like
>
> def uniquify(items):
> ? ? seen = set()
> ? ? ret = []
> ? ? for i in items:
> ? ? ? ? if not i in seen:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ret.append(i)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? seen.add(i)
> ? ? return ret
>
> But this seems to me like such a commonly needed operation that I
> find it hard to believe one would need to resort to such self-rolled
> solutions. ?Isn't there some more standard (and hopefully more
> efficient, as in "C-coded"/built-in) approach?
>
> TIA!
>
> kynn


Unique items in a list, in the same order as in the list:

x = sorted(set(x), key=x.index)

;]


From davea at ieee.org  Sun Aug  9 17:15:47 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 17:15:47 -0400
Subject: Need help in configuration for TimedRotatingFileHandler
In-Reply-To: <7e6938ce-91c9-4b65-980f-46d76bf69220@d36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
References: <7e6938ce-91c9-4b65-980f-46d76bf69220@d36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A7F3C83.1040607@ieee.org>

Lokesh wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Need help in configure the TimedRotatingFileHandler from configuration
> file
>
> I have tried with the below code and ended up with the error, code is
> pasted below
> Error - IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'G:\\lok_sib\
> \logs\rotate_test'
> [loggers]
> keys=root,simpleExample
>
> [handlers]
> keys=consoleHandler,timedRotatingFileHandler
>
> [formatters]
> keys=simpleFormatter
>
> [logger_root]
> level=DEBUG
> handlers=consoleHandler
>
> [logger_simpleExample]
> level=DEBUG
> handlers=timedRotatingFileHandler
> qualname=simpleExample
> propagate=0
>
> [handler_consoleHandler]
> class=StreamHandler
> level=DEBUG
> formatter=simpleFormatter
> args=(sys.stdout,)
>
> [handler_timedRotatingFileHandler]
> class=handlers.TimedRotatingFileHandler
> level=DEBUG
> formatter=simpleFormatter
> args=("G:\lok_sib\logs\rotate_test", 'midnight', 1)
>
> [formatter_simpleFormatter]
> format=%(asctime)s - %(name)s - %(levelname)s - %(message)s
> datefmt='%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S'
>
>
> Thanks or your time
> Regards,
> Lokesh
>
>   
I don't see code there, I see lots of config data, presumably in an .ini 
file.   So I don't know how you're reading it in, and converting it to 
Python variables, but I know where I'd look, based on your error message.

The following line:

args=("G:\lok_sib\logs\rotate_test", 'midnight', 1)

seems to contain a Python string.  But there are unescaped backslashes 
within it.  You can get away with it in two cases, because \l  isn't a 
valid escape sequence.  But in the case of \r, it looks like a newline 
character.

Anyway, all three of those backslashes probably need to be doubled.

args=("G:\\lok_sib\\logs\\rotate_test", 'midnight', 1)

Two other cures that may work, depending on context:   change the backslashes to forward slashes, or use a raw string.

But as I said earlier, you don't show in any way what code is interpreting this line, so it's all just guesswork.

DaveA



From rt8396 at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 17:43:14 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 14:43:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bug or feature: double strings as one
References: 
	  
	<000674d6$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	 
	<7c15f7b0-49f2-4210-bc7a-e82941e9ddd9@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com> 
	
	<21131b4b-67d3-4ddf-b061-60327d670ca7@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6cdaacf6-a560-483e-a14d-26396173e3bd@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>


#-- el bueno --#
"hello i am a very long string that\
does not like newlines so please \
escape me, Thank you!"

#-- el malo --#
"hello i am a very long string that"+
"does not like newlines but i have no"+
"idea what to do with myself"

#-- el feo --#
"hello i am a very long string that"
"does not like newlines but i have no"
"idea what to do with myself"


just ideas people!


From mail at johannes-janssen.de  Sun Aug  9 18:06:44 2009
From: mail at johannes-janssen.de (Johannes Janssen)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 00:06:44 +0200
Subject: How to find out in which module an instance of a class is created?
Message-ID: <4A7F4874.8030008@johannes-janssen.de>

Hi
I like to know in which module an instance of a class was initialized. 
Using __module__ or __name__ within a class only gives me the module in 
which the class was defined not the instance of the class. Is there some 
(simple) way to do this?
For better understanding I'll give an example how I want to use this. 
Okay let's say I've got a module *foo,* in which class A is defined as 
the following:

 > class A(object):
 >     def __init__(self, mod):
 >         self.mod = mod

In a module called *bar* I do the following:

 > import foo
 > a = A(__name__)

Then a.mod should be "bar". But I don't like to pass the value of a.mod 
manually rather than having it default to the module the instance a of A 
was created in (here "bar").
Unfortunately something like this ...

 > class A(object):
 >     def __init__(self, mod=__name__):
 >         self.mod = mod

... won't work. In this case mod would always be "foo".

Kind regards
johannes


From gert.cuykens at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 18:22:17 2009
From: gert.cuykens at gmail.com (gert)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 15:22:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: resume upload wsgi script
References: <36993141-188c-4b13-8819-e60516d27437@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<7e80jlF2etv0kU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	<7e85i3F2fdc1eU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<9cd75067-8839-44dd-9b42-4ffb15488b66@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
	<7e8ildF2f1hcpU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <49e41062-9e0d-4c5e-beca-edb02d3ce6e8@e34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 9, 8:25?pm, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
> gert schrieb:
>
>
>
> > On Aug 9, 4:42 pm, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
> >> gert schrieb:
>
> >>> On Aug 9, 3:17 pm, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
> >>>> gert schrieb:
> >>>>> I working on a resume upload script and encountered the following
> >>>>> problems
> >>>>> sql: Could not decode to UTF-8 column 'SUBSTR(picture,?)' with text
> >>>>> '\ufffd\ufff
> >>>>> d\ufffd\ufffd?!Exif------------Ef1gL6KM7Ij5ae0gL6KM7cH2cH2GI3
> >>>>> Content-Disposition: form-data; name="Filename"
> >>>> You are treating a binary data column as if it were a string. That's
> >>>> bogus, you need to use a blob column.
> >>>> Also I wouldn't combine the uplodaded chunks until the full upload is
> >>>> finished - and even then only if I actually need the data.
> >>>> Diez
> >>> And the best solution would be to use TEXT instead or some sort of
> >>> SUBBIN that i do not know of in sqlite ?
> >> No, the best solution would be to use "BLOB", and no SUB*-stuff, but
> >> instead a 1:n-relation of chunks, that when the upload is finished you
> >> can easily combine in python to one large blob, storing that in the DB
> >> again.
>
> >> Diez
>
> > so one table of chunks
>
> > CREATE TABLE temp (
> > ? ? file_id ?VARCHAR(64),
> > ? ? chunK_id ?INTEGER,
> > ? ? chunk BLOB,
> > ? ? PRIMARY KEY(file_id,chunk_id)
> > );
>
> > SELECT chunk FROM temp WHERE file_id = 'file'
> > concatenating result in python
> > update blob
> > delete temp
>
> > How do I concatenate results that do not fit into memory ?
>
> By writing them into one file? If files were to large for your memory,
> all the substring-stuff wouldn't help either - the sqlite works in the
> same memory as your program...
>
> But how many gigabytes of uploads do you expect?
>

250KB :)
Its just HTTP1.1 has everything for making ftp like file transfers
possible.
When I write it to a file then I am back at square one because I still
need to load it completely to get it into a blob.
So there is no way to concatenate BLOB's without loading it completely
into memory ?


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 18:24:53 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 15:24:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Monkeypatching an object to become callable
References: <87hbwgu7xa.fsf@vostro.rath.org>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 9, 12:02?pm, Nikolaus Rath  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I want to monkeypatch an object so that it becomes callable, although
> originally it is not meant to be. (Yes, I think I do have a good reason
> to do so).
>
> But simply adding a __call__ attribute to the object apparently isn't
> enough, and I do not want to touch the class object (since it would
> modify all the instances):


Override the class's __call__, and program it to call a certain method
(say _instancecall) on the object.  Catch AttributeError and raise
TypeError so that it matches the behavior when no __call__ is defined.


def __call__(self,*args,**kwargs):
    try:
        func = self._instancecall
    except AttributeError:
        raise TypeError("'%s' object not callable" % self.__class__)
    return func(*args,**kwargs)


Note: don't call _instancecall inside the try clause; you don't want
to catch attribute errors raised inside the _instancecall method.

Then set _instancecall on any objects you want to be callable.


Carl Banks


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sun Aug  9 18:47:58 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 18:47:58 -0400
Subject: Surpressing Warnings
In-Reply-To: <4dc0cfea0908091321y54156d30sc0c4dc3a564eecab@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4dc0cfea0908091321y54156d30sc0c4dc3a564eecab@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908091547q6f63b0d1v2b70ffa0a9352b24@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Victor Subervi wrote:
> Hi:
> I get a ton of warnings like this from a program I run:
>
> Warning (from warnings module):
> ? File "C:\Python25\read.py", line 67
> ??? cursor.execute(sqlKWDrop)
> Warning: Unknown table 'judaism_128'
>
> How do I surpress them?

import warnings
with warnings.catch_warnings():
    warnings.simplefilter("ignore")
    cursor.execute(sqlKWDrop)
#repeat for every call that's causing warnings

or to just silence all warnings from anywhere:

import warnings
warnings.simplefilter("ignore")

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Sun Aug  9 19:26:00 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 01:26:00 +0200
Subject: Bug or feature: double strings as one
In-Reply-To: <6cdaacf6-a560-483e-a14d-26396173e3bd@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	
	<000674d6$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<7c15f7b0-49f2-4210-bc7a-e82941e9ddd9@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<21131b4b-67d3-4ddf-b061-60327d670ca7@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	<6cdaacf6-a560-483e-a14d-26396173e3bd@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

09-08-2009 o 23:43:14 r  wrote:

> #-- el bueno --#
> "hello i am a very long string that\
> does not like newlines so please \
> escape me, Thank you!"

You probably ment: """hello i am... [etc.]

Anyway... You're right that generally it's good idea to define
dialog prompts and such stuff separately rather that to hardcode
it, especially in big projects. Then certainly multiline
string literals are useful (though, if you need to get rid of
newlines, IMHO "el feo" method is more elegant and less error
prone than your "el bueno" [possible invisible space after '\']).

But there are plenty of other situations when it's better
(in practice) to have strings (even long) together with your
code, e.g. log information for debugging, or

Cheers,

*j


From lists at cheimes.de  Sun Aug  9 19:47:34 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 01:47:34 +0200
Subject: How to find out in which module an instance of a class is created?
In-Reply-To: <4A7F4874.8030008@johannes-janssen.de>
References: <4A7F4874.8030008@johannes-janssen.de>
Message-ID: <4A7F6016.2060408@cheimes.de>

Johannes Janssen wrote:
>  > class A(object):
>  >     def __init__(self, mod=__name__):
>  >         self.mod = mod
> 
> .... won't work. In this case mod would always be "foo".

You have to inspect the stack in order to get the module of the caller. 
The implementation of warnings.warn() gives you some examples how to get 
the module name.

Christian


From nagle at animats.com  Sun Aug  9 19:51:41 2009
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 16:51:41 -0700
Subject: Does python have the capability for driver development ? Maybe
	with ShedSkin
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4a7f6018$0$1642$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

MalC0de wrote:
> hello there, I've a question :
> I want to know does python have any capability for using Ring0 and
> kernel functions for driver and device development stuff .
> if there's such a feature it is very good, and if there something for
> this kind that you know please refer me to some reference and show me
> some snippet .
> 
> thanks
> 
> - Malc0de

     With the CPython interpretive system, it's not likely to work. But
using ShedSkin, which generates hard machine code, it might be possible.
The main problem is that Shed Skin uses a garbage-collected environment,
which few kernels have.

     Under QNX, which is a a real message-passing operating system with
all drivers in user space, it should be possible to write a driver in
Python.  There's Python for QNX.  It would probably be too slow to
be useful, though.

     I've actually written a handler for Baudot Teletype machines in
Python.  See

     https://sourceforge.net/projects/baudotrss/

Those machines are so slow (45.45 baud) that Python isn't the bottleneck.

					John Nagle


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sun Aug  9 19:51:48 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 00:51:48 +0100
Subject: Bug or feature: double strings as one
In-Reply-To: 
References: 			<000674d6$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>		<7c15f7b0-49f2-4210-bc7a-e82941e9ddd9@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>		<21131b4b-67d3-4ddf-b061-60327d670ca7@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>	<6cdaacf6-a560-483e-a14d-26396173e3bd@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4A7F6114.9020402@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Jan Kaliszewski wrote:
> 09-08-2009 o 23:43:14 r  wrote:
> 
>> #-- el bueno --#
>> "hello i am a very long string that\
>> does not like newlines so please \
>> escape me, Thank you!"
> 
> You probably ment: """hello i am... [etc.]
> 
> Anyway... You're right that generally it's good idea to define
> dialog prompts and such stuff separately rather that to hardcode
> it, especially in big projects. Then certainly multiline
> string literals are useful (though, if you need to get rid of
> newlines, IMHO "el feo" method is more elegant and less error
> prone than your "el bueno" [possible invisible space after '\']).
> 
> But there are plenty of other situations when it's better
> (in practice) to have strings (even long) together with your
> code, e.g. log information for debugging, or
> 
Here's an idea that you're probably going to hate: indented strings. :-)

A string prefixed with 'i' would be an 'indented' string. Leading space
and tab characters at the start of the string (just after the quote) or
the start of each line within a multiline string would be ignored.

 >>> """Line 1
        Line 2
"""
'Line 1\n       Line 2\n'
 >>> i"""Line 1
        Line 2
"""
'Line 1\nLine 2\n'

An additional feature could be to make '\ ' == ' ', perhaps only for
indented strings if you're worried that it could breaking existing code:

 >>> i"""Line 1
\       Line 2
"""
'Line 1\n       Line 2\n'

This would save you having to write '\x20'.


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Aug  9 20:06:18 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 10 Aug 2009 00:06:18 GMT
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 12:26:54 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:

> A friend of mine is just learning Python, and he's a bit tweaked about
> how unrecognized escape sequences are treated in Python.
...
> In any case, I think my friend should mellow out a bit, but we both
> consider this something of a wart. He's just more wart-phobic than I am.
> Is there any way that this behavior can be considered anything other
> than a wart? Other than the unconvincing claim that you can use this
> "feature" to save you a bit of typing sometimes when you actually want a
> backslash to be in your string?

I'd put it this way: a backslash is just an ordinary character, except 
when it needs to be special. So Python's behaviour is "treat backslash as 
a normal character, except for these exceptions" while the behaviour your 
friend wants is "treat a backslash as an error, except for these 
exceptions".

Why should a backslash in a string literal be an error?



-- 
Steven


From bouncyinc at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 20:42:26 2009
From: bouncyinc at gmail.com (John Haggerty)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 18:42:26 -0600
Subject: getting a "simple" program to work
Message-ID: 

ok so I know this is one of those "weird" requests but here me out.
So far I have an issue with a package for python called "libgmail" which is
basically a gmail interface for python to send messages remoetly.

Works ok except that the 'sendMessage' routine is bad.

This is included in the above attachment

it's used in a program called "ogss" which is an sms interface to gmail to
basically read gmail and then have a command done on a remote machine and
then spat out on the local machine to a log file that's opened and then
emailed back

problem is that the sending back routine fails.

Now I've found a program that will more or less do what is requied but it's
not really exactly what would be used in that it doesn't use the libgmail
routine.

So far the maintainer of both packages seem to be afk or not having their
routines fixed and so far debian/Unbuntu claim that the last version of the
package has been fixed :(

Is there a recommendatin of how to combine/alter so that ogss can transmit?
My main issue is that python is lesser known to me than Chinese (which I
also don't know).

My idea of this is to have a remote email timeclock program which could then
be scripted with any language or just "echo >>blah" if necessary.

Thanks in advance :)
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From bbxx789_05ss at yahoo.com  Sun Aug  9 20:55:26 2009
From: bbxx789_05ss at yahoo.com (7stud)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 17:55:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Monkeypatching an object to become callable
References: <87hbwgu7xa.fsf@vostro.rath.org>
Message-ID: <0aa46ece-64b9-4c28-b690-5ac5937ce3f2@f20g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 9, 1:02?pm, Nikolaus Rath  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I want to monkeypatch an object so that it becomes callable, although
> originally it is not meant to be. (Yes, I think I do have a good reason
> to do so).
>
> But simply adding a __call__ attribute to the object apparently isn't
> enough, and I do not want to touch the class object (since it would
> modify all the instances):
>
> >>> class foo(object):
>
> ... ? pass
> ...>>> t = foo()
> >>> def test():
>
> ... ? print 'bar'
> ...>>> t()
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? File "", line 1, in 
> TypeError: 'foo' object is not callable>>> t.__call__ = test
> >>> t()
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? File "", line 1, in 
> TypeError: 'foo' object is not callable>>> t.__call__()
>
> bar
>
> Is there an additional trick to get it to work?
>
> Best,
>
> ? ?-Nikolaus
>
> --
> ??Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a Banana.?
>
> ? PGP fingerprint: 5B93 61F8 4EA2 E279 ABF6 ?02CF A9AD B7F8 AE4E 425C


With an old-style class your code will work:

class A:
    pass

def test():
    print "test"

a = A()
a.__call__ = test

a()

--output:--
test


a2 = A()
a2()

--output:--

    a2()
AttributeError: A instance has no __call__ method



Another option is to use the *decorator pattern*.  The decorator
pattern can be used when you want to add additional methods and
attributes to an object, and you don't want to disturb the original
class:

class A(object):
    def __init__(self, x):
        self.x = x

    def sayhi(self):
        print "hi"


class Wrapper(object):
    def __init__(self, obj, func):
        self.obj = obj
        self.func = func

    def __call__(self, *args):
        return self.func(*args)

    def __getattr__(self, name):
        return object.__getattribute__(self.obj, name)


def test():
    print "test"

a = A(10)
w = Wrapper(a, test)
w()
print w.x
w.sayhi()

--output:--
test
10
hi



From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 20:56:55 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 17:56:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> Why should a backslash in a string literal be an error?

Because in Python, if my friend sees the string "foo\xbar\n", he has
no idea whether the "\x" is an escape sequence, or if it is just the
characters "\x", unless he looks it up in the manual, or tries it out
in the REPL, or what have you. My friend is adamant that it would be
better if he could just look at the string literal and know. He
doesn't want to be bothered to have to store stuff like that in his
head. He wants to be able to figure out programs just by looking at
them, to the maximum degree that that is feasible.

In comparison to Python, in C++, he can just look "foo\xbar\n" and
know that "\x" is a special character. (As long as it compiles without
warnings under g++.)

He's particularly annoyed too, that if he types "foo\xbar" at the
REPL, it echoes back as "foo\\xbar". He finds that to be some sort of
annoying DWIM feature, and if Python is going to have DWIM features,
then it should, for example, figure out what he means by "\" and not
bother him with a syntax error in that case.

Another reason that Python should not behave the way that it does, is
that it pegs Python into a corner where it can't add new escape
sequences in the future, as doing so will break existing code.
Generating a syntax error instead for unknown escape sequences would
allow for future extensions.

Now not to pick on Python unfairly, most other languages have similar
issues with escape sequences. (Except for the Bourne Shell and bash,
where "\x" always just means "x", no matter what character "x" happens
to be.) But I've been telling my friend for years to switch to Python
because of how wonderful and consistent Python is in comparison to
most other languages, and now he seems disappointed and seems to think
that Python is just more of the same.

Of course I think that he's overreacting a bit. My point of view is
that every language has *some* warts; Python just has a bit fewer than
most. It would have been nice, I should think, if this wart had been
"fixed" in Python 3, as I do consider it to be a minor wart.

|>ouglas



From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 21:34:14 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 18:34:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 9, 5:06?pm, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
> On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 12:26:54 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:
> > A friend of mine is just learning Python, and he's a bit tweaked about
> > how unrecognized escape sequences are treated in Python.
> ...
> > In any case, I think my friend should mellow out a bit, but we both
> > consider this something of a wart. He's just more wart-phobic than I am.
> > Is there any way that this behavior can be considered anything other
> > than a wart? Other than the unconvincing claim that you can use this
> > "feature" to save you a bit of typing sometimes when you actually want a
> > backslash to be in your string?
>
> I'd put it this way: a backslash is just an ordinary character, except
> when it needs to be special. So Python's behaviour is "treat backslash as
> a normal character, except for these exceptions" while the behaviour your
> friend wants is "treat a backslash as an error, except for these
> exceptions".
>
> Why should a backslash in a string literal be an error?

Because the behavior of \ in a string is context-dependent, which
means a reader can't know if \ is a literal character or escape
character without knowing the context, and it means an innocuous
change in context can cause a rather significant change in \.

IOW it's an error-prone mess.  It would be better if Python (like C)
treated \ consistently as an escape character.  (And in raw strings,
consistently as a literal.)

It's kind of a minor issue in terms of overall real-world importance,
but in terms of raw unPythonicness this might be the worst offense the
language makes.


Carl Banks


From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 22:42:56 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 19:42:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <1cf80e77-416b-43be-8491-0b7b7494aa92@s6g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 9, 8:06?pm, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> while the behaviour your
> friend wants is "treat a backslash as an error, except for these
> exceptions".

Besides, can't all error situations be described as, "treat the error
situation as an error, except for the exception of when the situation
isn't an error"???

The behavior my friend wants isn't any more exceptional than that!

|>ouglas


From mensanator at aol.com  Sun Aug  9 22:46:52 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 19:46:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: pybotwar-0.5
References: 
Message-ID: <3e9c5fcd-4047-4edd-b2ec-d892c77e3a69@f33g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 9, 3:26?pm, Lee Harr  wrote:
> pybotwar is a fun and educational game where players
> create computer programs to control simulated robots
> to compete in a battle arena.
>
> http://pybotwar.googlecode.com/

Why is the doc folder empty?

Shouldn't you supply some hint on how the games works
and at least a rudimentary guide to robot design?

What version to you expect that will be in? 1.0? 10.0?

Could you inform us when you have something worth looking
at and not before so we don't have to waste our time?


>
> pybotwar uses pybox2d for the physical simulation,
> and uses pygame and pygsear for the visualization.
>
> pybotwar is released under GPLv3.
>
> Changes in pybotwar-0.5:
> ? ? - added tournament mode
> ? ? - added explosive shells
> ? ? - robots are now damaged by colliding with walls or other robots
> ? ? - added damage sensor
> ? ? - added gyro sensor
> ? ? - added configurable cannon reload time
> ? ? - added robot statistics database
> ? ? - added time limit for robot startup/ initialization
> ? ? - health bar changes color below 30% health
> ? ? - fixed force/ torque possibly going over 100%
> ? ? - fixed problem with non-integer force/ torque values
> ? ? - each robot gets its own log file in test mode
> ? ? - send robot errors to log file
> ? ? - use optparse for cmd line options
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> More than messages?check out the rest of the Windows Live?.http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/



From xahlee at gmail.com  Sun Aug  9 23:04:43 2009
From: xahlee at gmail.com (Xah Lee)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 20:04:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
Message-ID: <6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

The prob with python docs is with the python priests.

there are frequent posts about python doc's poor quality, and some
efforts to improve the doc (such as wiki or seggestions), about few
times a year (in so much as i've seen), the typical response is
pissing fight, with python priests to tell them not to start another
wiki, or ?you should apply in our church first and formulate a PEP
proposal first or kindly donate or otherwise fuckoff?, and so on.

i've wrote several articles about this issue, total time spend on this
is probably more than 2 months full-time work. See:

? Python Documentation Problems
  http://xahlee.org/perl-python/python_doc_index.html

just about each article above generates a thread of flames.

I also have re-wrote the entire python regex doc in 2005:

? Pyhton Regex Documentation: String Pattern Matching
  http://xahlee.org/perl-python/python_re-write/lib/module-re.html

there are some positive reviews, but most are drawn out by nay-sayers.

I often receive thank you emails for 2 particular articles, which are
most frequently google searched as indicated by my weblog:

? Python Doc Problem Example: gzip
  http://xahlee.org/perl-python/python_doc_gzip.html

? Python Doc Problem Example: sort()
  http://xahlee.org/perl-python/python_doc_sort.html

? Sorting in Python and Perl
  http://xahlee.org/perl-python/sort_list.html

See also:

? Language, Purity, Cult, and Deception
  http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/lang_purity_cult_deception.html

  Xah
? http://xahlee.org/

?

On Jul 31, 1:10 pm, kj  wrote:
> I'm pretty new to Python, and I like a lot overall, but I find the
> documentation for Python rather poor, overall.
>
> I'm sure that Python experts don't have this problem: they have
> internalized some good ways to access the documentation, are
> productive with it, and therefore have lost the ability to see why
> the Python documentations is deficient for beginners.  This explains
> why a suboptimal situation can persist like this: those who are
> most able fix it are also the least able to perceive it.
>
> I've heard similar complaints from other experienced programmers
> who are trying out Python for the first time: poor documentation.
>
> Here is an *entirely typical* example: on some Unix, try
>
> % pydoc urllib
>
> The displayed documentation mention the optional parameter "data"
> in practically every function listed (a few dozen of them).  This
> parameter is not documented *anywhere* on that page.  All that we
> are told is that its default value is always None.
>
> I'm sure that I can find a full description of this parameter if
> I fire up Google, and search online.  In fact, more likely than
> not, I'll find far more documentation than I want.  But my point
> is that a programmer should not need to do this.  The full
> documentation should be readily accessible directly through a few
> keystrokes.
>
> I would love to know how experienced Python programmers quickly
> zero in on the Python documentation they need.
>
> TIA!
>
> kynn



From spamgrinder.trylater at ggmail.com  Sun Aug  9 23:43:41 2009
From: spamgrinder.trylater at ggmail.com (AlF)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 20:43:41 -0700
Subject: reloading the module imported as 'from ... import ...'
Message-ID: <4A7F976D.7090600@ggmail.com>

Hi,

what is the best way to reload the module imported using 'from ... 
import ...'

Is following a way to do so?


 >>> from email.charset import Charset
 >>> reload(email.charset)
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "", line 1, in 
NameError: name 'email' is not defined
 >>>
 >>>
 >>> import email.charset
 >>> reload(email.charset)

References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1bcfbcd867677baf95b4ab8d685dbe44@preisshare.net>


Since you're talking about documentation, which is a part of python,
don't you think you should be discussing it on python-dev ?

That's where discussions about the documentation should be held.

haha - I'm just curious to see how long it will for them to
shut the discussion down. 

Before you do that, you should clearly work out in your own mind
how you think things need to improve. It's not good enough just
saying this or that is bad without having specific ideas on what
needs to change.

Good luck fellow sinner and blasphemer...

How dare you suggest that things could be improved...


On Sun, 9 Aug 2009 20:04:43 -0700 (PDT), Xah Lee  wrote:
> The prob with python docs is with the python priests.
> 
> there are frequent posts about python doc's poor quality, and some
> efforts to improve the doc (such as wiki or seggestions), about few
> times a year (in so much as i've seen), the typical response is
> pissing fight, with python priests to tell them not to start another
> wiki, or ?you should apply in our church first and formulate a PEP
> proposal first or kindly donate or otherwise fuckoff?, and so on.
> 
> i've wrote several articles about this issue, total time spend on this
> is probably more than 2 months full-time work. See:
> 
> ? Python Documentation Problems
>   http://xahlee.org/perl-python/python_doc_index.html
> 
> just about each article above generates a thread of flames.
> 
> I also have re-wrote the entire python regex doc in 2005:
> 
> ? Pyhton Regex Documentation: String Pattern Matching
>   http://xahlee.org/perl-python/python_re-write/lib/module-re.html
> 
> there are some positive reviews, but most are drawn out by nay-sayers.
> 
> I often receive thank you emails for 2 particular articles, which are
> most frequently google searched as indicated by my weblog:
> 
> ? Python Doc Problem Example: gzip
>   http://xahlee.org/perl-python/python_doc_gzip.html
> 
> ? Python Doc Problem Example: sort()
>   http://xahlee.org/perl-python/python_doc_sort.html
> 
> ? Sorting in Python and Perl
>   http://xahlee.org/perl-python/sort_list.html
> 
> See also:
> 
> ? Language, Purity, Cult, and Deception
>   http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/lang_purity_cult_deception.html
> 
>   Xah
> ? http://xahlee.org/
> 
> ?
> 
> On Jul 31, 1:10 pm, kj  wrote:
>> I'm pretty new to Python, and I like a lot overall, but I find the
>> documentation for Python rather poor, overall.
>>
>> I'm sure that Python experts don't have this problem: they have
>> internalized some good ways to access the documentation, are
>> productive with it, and therefore have lost the ability to see why
>> the Python documentations is deficient for beginners.  This explains
>> why a suboptimal situation can persist like this: those who are
>> most able fix it are also the least able to perceive it.
>>
>> I've heard similar complaints from other experienced programmers
>> who are trying out Python for the first time: poor documentation.
>>
>> Here is an *entirely typical* example: on some Unix, try
>>
>> % pydoc urllib
>>
>> The displayed documentation mention the optional parameter "data"
>> in practically every function listed (a few dozen of them).  This
>> parameter is not documented *anywhere* on that page.  All that we
>> are told is that its default value is always None.
>>
>> I'm sure that I can find a full description of this parameter if
>> I fire up Google, and search online.  In fact, more likely than
>> not, I'll find far more documentation than I want.  But my point
>> is that a programmer should not need to do this.  The full
>> documentation should be readily accessible directly through a few
>> keystrokes.
>>
>> I would love to know how experienced Python programmers quickly
>> zero in on the Python documentation they need.
>>
>> TIA!
>>
>> kynn


From lokeshmaremalla at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 01:07:37 2009
From: lokeshmaremalla at gmail.com (Lokesh Maremalla)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 10:37:37 +0530
Subject: Need help in configuration for TimedRotatingFileHandler
In-Reply-To: <4A7F3C83.1040607@ieee.org>
References: <7e6938ce-91c9-4b65-980f-46d76bf69220@d36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<4A7F3C83.1040607@ieee.org>
Message-ID: 

Hi Dave,

I have modified the code as mentioned in reply and is working fine. But
still i am facing an issue and the issue is described below.

In configuration file i have coded the TimedRotatingFileHandler like
args=("G:\\lok_sib\\logs\\rotate_test", 'D', 1)

step1: Executed the code and got the log file with the information
step2: Modified the system time from current day to next day
step3: End up with the error and the error is pasted below

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "c:\Python25\lib\logging\handlers.py", line 74, in emit
    self.doRollover()
  File "c:\Python25\lib\logging\handlers.py", line 274, in doRollover
    os.rename(self.baseFilename, dfn)
WindowsError: [Error 32] The process cannot access the file because it is
being used by another process

Python version - 2.5.4

Thanks for your time.

Regards,
Lokesh


On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 2:45 AM, Dave Angel  wrote:

> Lokesh wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Need help in configure the TimedRotatingFileHandler from configuration
>> file
>>
>> I have tried with the below code and ended up with the error, code is
>> pasted below
>> Error - IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'G:\\lok_sib\
>> \logs\rotate_test'
>> [loggers]
>> keys=root,simpleExample
>>
>> [handlers]
>> keys=consoleHandler,timedRotatingFileHandler
>>
>> [formatters]
>> keys=simpleFormatter
>>
>> [logger_root]
>> level=DEBUG
>> handlers=consoleHandler
>>
>> [logger_simpleExample]
>> level=DEBUG
>> handlers=timedRotatingFileHandler
>> qualname=simpleExample
>> propagate=0
>>
>> [handler_consoleHandler]
>> class=StreamHandler
>> level=DEBUG
>> formatter=simpleFormatter
>> args=(sys.stdout,)
>>
>> [handler_timedRotatingFileHandler]
>> class=handlers.TimedRotatingFileHandler
>> level=DEBUG
>> formatter=simpleFormatter
>> args=("G:\lok_sib\logs\rotate_test", 'midnight', 1)
>>
>> [formatter_simpleFormatter]
>> format=%(asctime)s - %(name)s - %(levelname)s - %(message)s
>> datefmt='%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S'
>>
>>
>> Thanks or your time
>> Regards,
>> Lokesh
>>
>>
>>
> I don't see code there, I see lots of config data, presumably in an .ini
> file.   So I don't know how you're reading it in, and converting it to
> Python variables, but I know where I'd look, based on your error message.
>
> The following line:
>
> args=("G:\lok_sib\logs\rotate_test", 'midnight', 1)
>
> seems to contain a Python string.  But there are unescaped backslashes
> within it.  You can get away with it in two cases, because \l  isn't a valid
> escape sequence.  But in the case of \r, it looks like a newline character.
>
> Anyway, all three of those backslashes probably need to be doubled.
>
> args=("G:\\lok_sib\\logs\\rotate_test", 'midnight', 1)
>
> Two other cures that may work, depending on context:   change the
> backslashes to forward slashes, or use a raw string.
>
> But as I said earlier, you don't show in any way what code is interpreting
> this line, so it's all just guesswork.
>
> DaveA
>
>


-- 
Thanks & Regards,
Lokesh.
lokeshmaremalla at gmail.com
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From lokeshmaremalla at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 01:21:09 2009
From: lokeshmaremalla at gmail.com (Lokesh Maremalla)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 10:51:09 +0530
Subject: Need help in configuration for TimedRotatingFileHandler
In-Reply-To: 
References: <7e6938ce-91c9-4b65-980f-46d76bf69220@d36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<4A7F3C83.1040607@ieee.org>
	
Message-ID: 

Hi Dave,

I forgot to provide the information about the code how I am using logger
Here is the complete scenario

I have modified the code as mentioned in reply and is working fine. But
still I am facing an issue and the issue is described below.

In configuration file i have coded the TimedRotatingFileHandler like
args=("G:\\lok_sib\\logs\\rotate_test", 'D', 1)

Code:
mlogger = logging.getLogger("simpleExample")
def a_view(request):
    mlogger.debug("a_view called")
    if request.method== "POST" :
        mlogger.debug("post function")
    else:
        mlogger.debug("serve function")

Execution:
step1: Executed the code and got the log file with the information
step2: Modified the system time from current day to next day
step3: End up with the error and the error is pasted below

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "c:\Python25\lib\logging\handlers.py", line 74, in emit
    self.doRollover()
  File "c:\Python25\lib\logging\handlers.py", line 274, in doRollover
    os.rename(self.baseFilename, dfn)
WindowsError: [Error 32] The process cannot access the file because it is
being used by another process

Python version - 2.5.4

I guess my output should be like this for the next day
-a new log file rotate_test. should generate in the respective
location

Please correct me if I am wrong.


Thanks for your time.

Regards,
Lokesh
-------------- next part --------------
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From timr at probo.com  Mon Aug 10 01:31:27 2009
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 22:31:27 -0700
Subject: Using Python to automate builds
References: <84d9ae10-3aee-40a8-97ac-05799da0de64@f18g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Kosta  wrote:
>
>
>What I would like to do, is to open a cmd window, and start a Python
>script.  This script would then (based upon input arguments), build
>different flavors of the driver (fre, chk, x86, x64) and do some post
>processing (create cat files, sign, etc.).
>
>I was hoping to take advantage as much as possible of exisiting
>infrastructure from the WDK.  I am able to call setenv.bat and provide
>all the input parameters.  One of the things setenv.bat does is change
>the path environment variable.  However, this is not captured by
>Python.  I could duplicate the functionality, but I'd rather not.  Is
>there a way to capture all enviroment variable changes being made by a
>batch file from Python?

My suggestion is that you just call "setenv" again every time you start a
new process.  My "build everything" batch file has a series of sections
something like this:

  setlocal
  set LAST=%CD%
  call %DDK%\bin\setenv %DDK% chk WXP no_oacr
  @echo on
  set USERNAME=timr
  cd %LAST%
  build %BLD%
  endlocal

  setlocal
  set LAST=%CD%
  call %DDK%\bin\setenv %DDK% fre WXP no_oacr
  @echo on
  set USERNAME=timr
  cd %LAST%
  build %BLD%
  endlocal

  setlocal
  set LAST=%CD%
  call %DDK%\bin\setenv %DDK% chk WLH x64 no_oacr
  @echo on
  set USERNAME=timr
  cd %LAST%
  build %BLD%
  endlocal
-- 
Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Aug 10 01:32:36 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 10 Aug 2009 05:32:36 GMT
Subject: reloading the module imported as 'from ... import ...'
References: <4A7F976D.7090600@ggmail.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 20:43:41 -0700, AlF wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> what is the best way to reload the module imported using 'from ...
> import ...'


Have you tried "from ... import ..." again?



-- 
Steven


From timr at probo.com  Mon Aug 10 01:34:41 2009
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 22:34:41 -0700
Subject: Pywin32 @ windows 7
References: 
Message-ID: 

"Algirdas Brazas"  wrote:
>
>Did anyone manage to get windows extensions installet on windows 7 64 bit? As 
>far as I try I get only "Setup program invalid or damaged".

I've been running 32-bit Python 2.5 and the 32-bit versions of PyWin32 and
wxPython on Windows 7 64-bit for many months.  No problems.

I have not tried the 64-bit Python and PyWin32 builds yet.
-- 
Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From timr at probo.com  Mon Aug 10 01:42:45 2009
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 22:42:45 -0700
Subject: Windows 7 : any problems installing or running Python ?
References: 
Message-ID: 

Dave WB3DWE wrote:
>
>Anybody tried it ? 
>Is anything broken, ie is the whole shootin' match good to go ?
>I'm esp interested in WConio for 3.0/3.1 which I use heavily.

I've been running the 32-bit builds of Python 2.5, PyWin32, and wxPython on
Windows 7 64-bit for many months.  No problems at all.

I hated Vista; I would only run it if my clients insisted on having their
drivers tested on it.  Vista SP1 was somewhat better, but I don't mind
Windows 7 at all.  I might even upgrade my primary development machine from
XP.  A number of the usually cranky driver developers have expressed the
same opinion.  Microsoft might actually have a winner here.
-- 
Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From spamgrinder.trylater at ggmail.com  Mon Aug 10 01:48:31 2009
From: spamgrinder.trylater at ggmail.com (AlF)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 22:48:31 -0700
Subject: reloading the module imported as 'from ... import ...'
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4A7F976D.7090600@ggmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <4A7FB4AF.7060107@ggmail.com>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 20:43:41 -0700, AlF wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>>
>> what is the best way to reload the module imported using 'from ...
>> import ...'
> 
> 
> Have you tried "from ... import ..." again?
> 

I have not because of an assumption that "import" imports the module 
just once. In fact this still works that way:

here is a terminal 1:

$ cat > a.py
a=1
$ cat > a.py
a=2
$


and terminal 2:

 >>> from a import a
 >>> a
1
 >>> a
1
 >>> from a import a
 >>> a
1
 >>>

In spite of changing a.py in fly, the imported a is still 1




From julien.chevalier at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 01:58:31 2009
From: julien.chevalier at gmail.com (Kiki)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 22:58:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Client/Server based on SocketServer and Windows
References: 
	
Message-ID: <979ad93c-0257-4add-8fb7-b56e253e3fb7@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>

Thank you Dennis

I'm using 2 differents editor, which may be the cause of such a mess
in the indentation.

I must admitt that I lazily rely on those (not so bad indeed) editors.

"If indentation whas bad they would have tell me"

Too bad am i

Won't post misindeted code anymore.


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Aug 10 02:03:05 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 10 Aug 2009 06:03:05 GMT
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 17:56:55 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
>> Why should a backslash in a string literal be an error?
> 
> Because in Python, if my friend sees the string "foo\xbar\n", he has no
> idea whether the "\x" is an escape sequence, or if it is just the
> characters "\x", unless he looks it up in the manual, or tries it out in
> the REPL, or what have you. 

Fair enough, but isn't that just another way of saying that if you look 
at a piece of code and don't know what it does, you don't know what it 
does unless you look it up or try it out?


> My friend is adamant that it would be better
> if he could just look at the string literal and know. He doesn't want to
> be bothered to have to store stuff like that in his head. He wants to be
> able to figure out programs just by looking at them, to the maximum
> degree that that is feasible.

I actually sympathize strongly with that attitude. But, honestly, your 
friend is a programmer (or at least pretends to be one *wink*). You can't 
be a programmer without memorizing stuff: syntax, function calls, modules 
to import, quoting rules, blah blah blah. Take C as an example -- there's 
absolutely nothing about () that says "group expressions or call a 
function" and {} that says "group a code block". You just have to 
memorize it. If you don't know what a backslash escape is going to do, 
why would you use it? I'm sure your friend isn't in the habit of randomly 
adding backslashes to strings just to see whether it will still compile.

This is especially important when reading (as opposed to writing) code. 
You read somebody else's code, and see "foo\xbar\n". Let's say you know 
it compiles without warning. Big deal -- you don't know what the escape 
codes do unless you've memorized them. What does \n resolve to? chr(13) 
or chr(97) or chr(0)? Who knows? 

Unless you know the rules, you have no idea what is in the string. 
Allowing \y to resolve to a literal backslash followed by y doesn't 
change that. All it means is that some \c combinations return a single 
character, and some return two.



> In comparison to Python, in C++, he can just look "foo\xbar\n" and know
> that "\x" is a special character. (As long as it compiles without
> warnings under g++.)

So what you mean is, he can just look at "foo\xbar\n" AND COMPILE IT 
USING g++, and know whether or not \x is a special character.

[sarcasm] Gosh. That's an enormous difference from Python, where you have 
to print the string at the REPL to know what it does. [/sarcasm]

Aside:
\x isn't a special character:

>>> "\x"
ValueError: invalid \x escape

However, \xba is:

>>> "\xba"
'\xba'
>>> len("\xba")
1
>>> ord("\xba")
186



> He's particularly annoyed too, that if he types "foo\xbar" at the REPL,
> it echoes back as "foo\\xbar". He finds that to be some sort of annoying
> DWIM feature, and if Python is going to have DWIM features, then it
> should, for example, figure out what he means by "\" and not bother him
> with a syntax error in that case.

Now your friend is confused. This is a good thing. Any backslash you see 
in Python's default string output is *always* an escape:

>>> "a string with a 'proper' escape \t (tab)"
"a string with a 'proper' escape \t (tab)"
>>> "a string with an 'improper' escape \y (backslash-y)"
"a string with an 'improper' escape \\y (backslash-y)"

The REPL is actually doing him a favour. It always escapes backslashes, 
so there is no ambiguity. A backslash is displayed as \\, any other \c is 
a special character.


> Of course I think that he's overreacting a bit. 

:)


> My point of view is that
> every language has *some* warts; Python just has a bit fewer than most.
> It would have been nice, I should think, if this wart had been "fixed"
> in Python 3, as I do consider it to be a minor wart.

And if anyone had cared enough to raise it a couple of years back, it 
possibly might have been.


-- 
Steven


From nagle at animats.com  Mon Aug 10 02:03:14 2009
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 23:03:14 -0700
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
In-Reply-To: 
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <4a7fb72d$0$1589$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

Carl Banks wrote:
> IOW it's an error-prone mess.  It would be better if Python (like C)
> treated \ consistently as an escape character.  (And in raw strings,
> consistently as a literal.)

    Agreed.  For one thing, if another escape character ever has to be
added to the language, that may change the semantics of previously
correct strings.  If "\" followed by a non-special character is treated
as an error, that doesn't happen.

					John Nagle


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Aug 10 02:10:53 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 10 Aug 2009 06:10:53 GMT
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 18:34:14 -0700, Carl Banks wrote:

>> Why should a backslash in a string literal be an error?
> 
> Because the behavior of \ in a string is context-dependent, which means
> a reader can't know if \ is a literal character or escape character
> without knowing the context, and it means an innocuous change in context
> can cause a rather significant change in \.

*Any* change in context is significant with escapes.

"this \nhas two lines"

If you change the \n to a \t you get a significant difference. If you 
change the \n to a \y you get a significant difference. Why is the first 
one acceptable but the second not?


> IOW it's an error-prone mess.

I've never had any errors caused by this. I've never seen anyone write to 
this newsgroup confused over escape behaviour, or asking for help with an 
error caused by it, and until this thread, never seen anyone complain 
about it either.

Excuse my cynicism, but I believe that you are using "error-prone" to 
mean "I don't like this behaviour" rather than "it causes lots of errors".



-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Aug 10 02:21:36 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 10 Aug 2009 06:21:36 GMT
Subject: reloading the module imported as 'from ... import ...'
References: <4A7F976D.7090600@ggmail.com>
	
	<4A7FB4AF.7060107@ggmail.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 22:48:31 -0700, AlF wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 20:43:41 -0700, AlF wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> what is the best way to reload the module imported using 'from ...
>>> import ...'
>> 
>> 
>> Have you tried "from ... import ..." again?
>> 
>> 
> I have not because of an assumption that "import" imports the module
> just once. 

Ah, of course the cached module will still reflect the older version. 
Sorry, I was thinking about solving a different problem:

- In module "main" call "from A import a"
- Some other part of your code modifies A.a
- You want to have the imported a be refreshed with the value of A.a


No, my suggestion won't help in this situation.

Instead, you can:

(1) Delete the module from sys.modules, forcing Python to re-read it from 
disk:

import sys
del sys.modules['A']
from A import a

or

(2) Recognize that Python doesn't specifically support what you're trying 
to do. reload() is a convenience function, and you probably should stick 
to the "import A; A.a" form.


-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Aug 10 02:23:20 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 10 Aug 2009 06:23:20 GMT
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<4a7fb72d$0$1589$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 23:03:14 -0700, John Nagle wrote:

> if another escape character ever has to be
> added to the language, that may change the semantics of previously
> correct strings.

And that's the only argument in favour of prohibiting non-special 
backslash sequences I've seen yet that is even close to convincing.


-- 
Steven


From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 03:32:30 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 00:32:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <3611ca55-79a6-4336-9041-07d0893789f7@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 10, 2:03 am, Steven D'Aprano
 wrote:

> On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 17:56:55 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:

> > Because in Python, if my friend sees the string "foo\xbar\n", he has no
> > idea whether the "\x" is an escape sequence, or if it is just the
> > characters "\x", unless he looks it up in the manual, or tries it out in
> > the REPL, or what have you.
>
> Fair enough, but isn't that just another way of saying that if you look
> at a piece of code and don't know what it does, you don't know what it
> does unless you look it up or try it out?

Not really. It's more like saying that easy things should be easy, and
hard things should possible. But in this case, Python is making
something that should be really easy, a bit harder and more error
prone than it should be.

In C++, if I know that the code I'm looking at compiles, then I never
need worry that I've misinterpreted what a string literal means. At
least not if it doesn't have any escape characters in it that I'm not
familiar with. But in Python, if I see, "\f\o\o\b\a\z", I'm not really
sure what I'm seeing, as I surely don't have committed to memory some
of the more obscure escape sequences. If I saw this in C++, and I knew
that it was in code that compiled, then I'd at least know that there
are some strange escape codes that I have to look up. Unlike with
Python, it would never be the case in C++ code that the programmer who
wrote the code was just too lazy to type in "\\f\\o\\o\\b\\a\\z"
instead.

> > My friend is adamant that it would be better
> > if he could just look at the string literal and know. He doesn't want to
> > be bothered to have to store stuff like that in his head. He wants to be
> > able to figure out programs just by looking at them, to the maximum
> > degree that that is feasible.
>
> I actually sympathize strongly with that attitude. But, honestly, your
> friend is a programmer (or at least pretends to be one *wink*).

Actually, he's probably written more code than you, me, and ten other
random decent programmers put together. As he can slap out massive
amounts of code very quickly, he'd prefer not to have crap getting in
his way. In the time it takes him to look something up, he might have
written another page of code.

He's perfectly capable of dealing with crap, as years of writing large
programs in Perl and PHP quickly proves, but his whole reason for
learning Python, I take it, is so that he will be bothered with less
crap and therefore write code even faster.

> You can't be a programmer without memorizing stuff: syntax, function
> calls, modules to import, quoting rules, blah blah blah. Take C as
> an example -- there's absolutely nothing about () that says "group
> expressions or call a function" and {} that says "group a code
> block".

I don't really think that this is a good analogy. It's like the
difference between remembering rules of grammar and remembering
English spelling. As a kid, I was the best in my school at grammar,
and one of the worst at speling.

> You just have to memorize it. If you don't know what a backslash
> escape is going to do, why would you use it?

(1) You're looking at code that someone else wrote, or (2) you forget
to type "\\" instead of "\" in your code (or get lazy sometimes), as
that is okay most of the time, and you inadvertently get a subtle bug.

> This is especially important when reading (as opposed to writing) code.
> You read somebody else's code, and see "foo\xbar\n". Let's say you know
> it compiles without warning. Big deal -- you don't know what the escape
> codes do unless you've memorized them. What does \n resolve to? chr(13)
> or chr(97) or chr(0)? Who knows?

It *is* a big deal. Or at least a non-trivial deal. It means that you
can tell just by looking at the code that there are funny characters
in the string, and not just a backslashes. You don't have to go
running for the manual every time you see code with backslashes, where
the upshot might be that the programmer was merely saving themselves
some typing.

> > In comparison to Python, in C++, he can just look "foo\xbar\n" and know
> > that "\x" is a special character. (As long as it compiles without
> > warnings under g++.)
>
> So what you mean is, he can just look at "foo\xbar\n" AND COMPILE IT
> USING g++, and know whether or not \x is a special character.

I'm not sure that your comments are paying due diligence to full
life-cycle software development issues that involve multiple
programmers (or even just your own program that you wrote a year ago,
and you don't remember all the details of what you did) combined with
maintaining and modifying existing code, etc.

> Aside:
> \x isn't a special character:
>
> >>> "\x"
>
> ValueError: invalid \x escape

I think that this all just goes to prove my friend's point! Here I've
been programming in Python for more than a decade (not full time, mind
you, as I also program in other languages, like C++), and even I
didn't know that "\xba" was an escape sequence, and I inadvertently
introduced a subtle bug into my argument because it just so happens
that the first two characters of "bar" are legal hexadecimal! If I did
the very same thing in a real program, it might take me a lot of time
to track down the bug.

Also, it seems that Python is being inconsistent here. Python knows
that
the string "\x" doesn't contain a full escape sequence, so why doesn't
it
treat the string "\x" the same way that it treats the string "\z"?
After all, if you're a Python programmer, you should know that "\x"
doesn't contain a complete escape sequence, and therefore, you would
not be surprised if Python were so kind as to just leave it alone,
rather than raising a ValueError.

I.e., "\z" is not a legal escape sequence, so it gets left as
"\\z". "\x" is not a legal escape sequence. Shouldn't it also get left
as "\\x"?

> > He's particularly annoyed too, that if he types "foo\xbar" at the REPL,
> > it echoes back as "foo\\xbar". He finds that to be some sort of annoying
> > DWIM feature, and if Python is going to have DWIM features, then it
> > should, for example, figure out what he means by "\" and not bother him
> > with a syntax error in that case.
>
> Now your friend is confused. This is a good thing. Any backslash you see
> in Python's default string output is *always* an escape:

Well, I think he's more annoyed that if Python is going to be so
helpful as to put in the missing "\" for you in "foo\zbar", then it
should put in the missing "\" for you in "\". He considers this to be
an
inconsistency.

Me, I'd never, ever, EVER want a language to special-case something at
the end of a string, but I can see that from his new-to-Python
perspective, Python seems to be DWIMing in one place and not the
other, and he thinks that it should either do no DWIMing at all, or
consistently DWIM. To not be consistent in this regard is "inelegant",
says he.

And I can see his point that allowing "foo\zbar" and "foo\\zbar" to be
synonymous is a form of DWIMing.

> > My point of view is that every language has *some* warts; Python
> > just has a bit fewer than most.  It would have been nice, I should
> > think, if this wart had been "fixed" in Python 3, as I do consider
> > it to be a minor wart.

> And if anyone had cared enough to raise it a couple of years back, it
> possibly might have been.

So, now if only my friend had learned Python years ago, when I told
him to, he possibly might be happy with Python by now!

|>ouglas


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 03:37:33 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 00:37:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 9, 11:10?pm, Steven D'Aprano
 wrote:
> On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 18:34:14 -0700, Carl Banks wrote:
> >> Why should a backslash in a string literal be an error?
>
> > Because the behavior of \ in a string is context-dependent, which means
> > a reader can't know if \ is a literal character or escape character
> > without knowing the context, and it means an innocuous change in context
> > can cause a rather significant change in \.
>
> *Any* change in context is significant with escapes.
>
> "this \nhas two lines"
>
> If you change the \n to a \t you get a significant difference. If you
> change the \n to a \y you get a significant difference. Why is the first
> one acceptable but the second not?

Because when you change \n to \t, you've haven't changed the meaning
of the \ character; but when you change \n to \y, you have, and you
did so without even touching the backslash.


> > IOW it's an error-prone mess.
>
> I've never had any errors caused by this.

Thank you for your anecdotal evidence.  Here's mine: This has gotten
me at least twice, and a compiler complaint would have reduced my bug-
hunting time from tens of minutes to ones of seconds.  [Aside: it was
when I was using Python on Windows for the first time]


> I've never seen anyone write to
> this newsgroup confused over escape behaviour, or asking for help with an
> error caused by it, and until this thread, never seen anyone complain
> about it either.

More anecdotal evidence.  Here's mine: I have.


> Excuse my cynicism, but I believe that you are using "error-prone" to
> mean "I don't like this behaviour" rather than "it causes lots of errors".

No, I'm using error-prone to mean error-prone.

Someone (obviously not you because you're have perfect knowledge of
the language and 100% situation awareness at all times) might have a
string like "abcd\stuv"  and change it to "abcd\tuvw" without even
thinking about the fact that the s comes after the backslash.

Worst of all: they might not even notice the error, because the repr
of this string is:

'abcd\tuwv'

They might not notice that the backslash is single, because (unlike
you) mortal fallible human beings don't always register tiny details
like a backslash being single when it should be double.

Point is, this is a very bad inconsistency.  It makes the behavior of
\ impossible to learn by analogy, now you have to memorize a list of
situations where it behaves one way or another.


Carl Banks


From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 03:57:18 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 00:57:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <246b6a1d-7e83-4ad3-9978-c2a55b884a6c@o13g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 10, 2:10?am, Steven D'Aprano

> I've never had any errors caused by this.

But you've seen an error caused by this, in this very discussion.
I.e., "foo\xbar".

"\xba" isn't an escape sequence in any other language that I've used,
which is one reason I made this error... Oh, wait a minute -- it *is*
an escape sequence in JavaScript. But in JavaScript, while "\xba" is a
special character, "\xb" is synonymous with "xb".

The fact that every language seems to treat these things similarly but
differently, is yet another reason why they should just be treated
utterly consistently by all of the languages: I.e., escape sequences
that don't have a special meaning should be an error!

> I've never seen anyone write to
> this newsgroup confused over escape behaviour,

My friend objects strongly the claim that he is "confused" by it, so I
guess you are right that no one is confused. He just thinks that it
violates the beautiful sense of aesthetics that he was sworn over and
over again Python to have.

But aesthetics is a non-negligible issue with practical ramifications.
(Not that anything can be done about this wart at this point,
however.)

> or asking for help with an error caused by it, and until
> this thread, never seen anyone complain about it either.

Oh, this bothered me too when I first learned Python, and I thought it
was stupid. It just didn't bother me enough to complain publicly.

Besides, the vast majority of Python noobs don't come here, despite
appearance sometimes, and by the time most people get here, they've
probably got bigger fish to fry.

|>ouglas




From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Mon Aug 10 04:08:32 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 10:08:32 +0200
Subject: Monkeypatching an object to become callable
In-Reply-To: <0aa46ece-64b9-4c28-b690-5ac5937ce3f2@f20g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
References: <87hbwgu7xa.fsf@vostro.rath.org>
	<0aa46ece-64b9-4c28-b690-5ac5937ce3f2@f20g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a7fd55e$0$32765$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

7stud a ?crit :
(snip)
> class Wrapper(object):
>     def __init__(self, obj, func):
>         self.obj = obj
>         self.func = func
> 
>     def __call__(self, *args):
>         return self.func(*args)
> 
>     def __getattr__(self, name):
>         return object.__getattribute__(self.obj, name)

This should be

           return getattr(self.obj, name)

directly calling object.__getattribute__ might skip redefinition of 
__getattribute__ in self.obj.__class__ or it's mro.



From frederic.leger at contactoffice.net  Mon Aug 10 04:35:54 2009
From: frederic.leger at contactoffice.net (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Fr=E9d=E9ric_L=E9ger?=)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 10:35:54 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: install tarball package Python on Debian, necessary modules not found
Message-ID: <16266394.6699.1249893354154.JavaMail.root@orville>

I use Debian Lenny and I tried to install the tarball packaging of the lastest python realease (http://www.python.org/download/, release 3.1). After read README file I launch standard Makefile commands. But at the end of "make" command, I have got this message:

"...
Python build finished, but the necessary bits to build these modules were not found:
_curses            _curses_panel      _dbm
_gdbm              _hashlib           _sqlite3
_ssl               _tkinter           bz2
readline
To find the necessary bits, look in setup.py in detect_modules() for the module's name.
..."

Solution:

So I installed these Debian packages to correct the problem:

_curses, _curses_panel = libncurses-dev
zlib = libbz2-dev
bz2 = libzip-dev
_dbm, _gdbm = libgdbm-dev 
_hashlib, _ssl = libssl-dev 
_sqlite3 = libsqlite3-dev 
_tkinter = tk8.4-dev 
readline = libreadline5-dev 

I use on command line "apt-get install libncurses-dev libbz2-dev ..."
After that, I retry to compile python "make clean ; make ...". And all modules are good.

Good work with Python 3.1 ;)


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Aug 10 04:37:48 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 10 Aug 2009 08:37:48 GMT
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 00:37:33 -0700, Carl Banks wrote:

> On Aug 9, 11:10?pm, Steven D'Aprano
>  wrote:
>> On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 18:34:14 -0700, Carl Banks wrote:
>> >> Why should a backslash in a string literal be an error?
>>
>> > Because the behavior of \ in a string is context-dependent, which
>> > means a reader can't know if \ is a literal character or escape
>> > character without knowing the context, and it means an innocuous
>> > change in context can cause a rather significant change in \.
>>
>> *Any* change in context is significant with escapes.
>>
>> "this \nhas two lines"
>>
>> If you change the \n to a \t you get a significant difference. If you
>> change the \n to a \y you get a significant difference. Why is the
>> first one acceptable but the second not?
> 
> Because when you change \n to \t, you've haven't changed the meaning of
> the \ character; 

I assume you mean the \ character in the literal, not the (non-existent) 
\ character in the string.


> but when you change \n to \y, you have, and you did so
> without even touching the backslash.

Not at all.

'\n' maps to the string chr(10).
'\y' maps to the string chr(92) + chr(121).

In both cases the backslash in the literal have the same meaning: grab 
the next token (usually a single character, but not always), look it up 
in a mapping somewhere, and insert the result in the string object being 
built.

(I don't know if the *implementation* is precisely as described, but 
that's irrelevant. It's still functionally a mapping.) 



>> > IOW it's an error-prone mess.
>>
>> I've never had any errors caused by this.
> 
> Thank you for your anecdotal evidence.  Here's mine: This has gotten me
> at least twice, and a compiler complaint would have reduced my bug-
> hunting time from tens of minutes to ones of seconds.  [Aside: it was
> when I was using Python on Windows for the first time]

Okay, that's twice in, how many years have you been programming?

I've mistyped "xrange" as "xrnage" two or three times. Does that make 
xrange() "an error-prone mess" too? Probably not. Why is my mistake my 
mistake, but your mistake the language's fault?


[...]

Oh, wait, no, I tell I lie -- I *have* seen people reporting "bugs" here 
caused by backslashes. They're invariably Windows programmers writing 
pathnames using backslashes, so I'll give you that one: if you don't know 
that Python treats backslashes as special in string literals, you will 
screw up your Windows pathnames.

Interestingly, the problem there is not that \y resolves to literal 
backslash followed by y, but that \t DOESN'T resolve to the expected 
backslash-t. So it seems to me that the problem for Windows coders is not 
that \y doesn't raise an error, but the mere existence of backslash 
escapes.



> Someone (obviously not you because you're have perfect knowledge of the
> language and 100% situation awareness at all times) might have a string
> like "abcd\stuv"  and change it to "abcd\tuvw" without even thinking
> about the fact that the s comes after the backslash.

Deary me. And they might type "4+15" instead of "4*51", and now 
arithmetic is an "error-prone mess" too. If you know of a programming 
language which can prevent you making semantic errors, please let us all 
know what it is.

If you edit code without thinking, you will be burnt, and you get *zero* 
sympathy from me.


> Worst of all: they might not even notice the error, because the repr of
> this string is:
> 
> 'abcd\tuwv'
> 
> They might not notice that the backslash is single, because (unlike you)
> mortal fallible human beings don't always register tiny details like a
> backslash being single when it should be double.

"Help help, 123145 looks too similar to 1231145, and now I calculated my 
taxes wrong and will go to jail!!!"


> Point is, this is a very bad inconsistency.  It makes the behavior of \
> impossible to learn by analogy, now you have to memorize a list of
> situations where it behaves one way or another.

No, you don't "have" to memorize anything, you can go right ahead and 
escape every backslash, as I did for years. Your code will still work 
fine.

You already have to memorize what escape codes return special characters. 
The only difference is whether you learn "...and everything else raises 
an exception" or "...and everything else is returned unchanged". 

There is at least one good reason for preferring an error, namely that it 
allows Python to introduce new escape codes without going through a long, 
slow process. But the rest of these complaints are terribly unconvincing.



-- 
Steven


From deets at nospam.web.de  Mon Aug 10 04:39:19 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 10:39:19 +0200
Subject: resume upload wsgi script
In-Reply-To: <49e41062-9e0d-4c5e-beca-edb02d3ce6e8@e34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
References: <36993141-188c-4b13-8819-e60516d27437@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<7e80jlF2etv0kU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	<7e85i3F2fdc1eU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<9cd75067-8839-44dd-9b42-4ffb15488b66@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
	<7e8ildF2f1hcpU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<49e41062-9e0d-4c5e-beca-edb02d3ce6e8@e34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7ea4lpF2dvr5cU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

> 
> 250KB :)

So why do you bother?

> Its just HTTP1.1 has everything for making ftp like file transfers
> possible.
> When I write it to a file then I am back at square one because I still
> need to load it completely to get it into a blob.

Well, the blob is nothing but datat in the file-system. If you are 
*really* concerned about that, then don't use the db, but use the 
filesystem, appending to the file until it's finished - and storing a 
reference to it to the DB. We do that as well, because otherwise the db 
will become unmanagable anyway (dumping, backups).

> So there is no way to concatenate BLOB's without loading it completely
> into memory ?

In theory, the DB might offer special stream-based methods for these 
kinds of tasks, but the db-api lacks them. Some DB-adapters might offer 
some non-standard-extensions, but I don't think sqlite does.

Diez


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Aug 10 04:49:20 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 10 Aug 2009 08:49:20 GMT
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<246b6a1d-7e83-4ad3-9978-c2a55b884a6c@o13g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 00:57:18 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:

> On Aug 10, 2:10?am, Steven D'Aprano
> 
>> I've never had any errors caused by this.
> 
> But you've seen an error caused by this, in this very discussion. I.e.,
> "foo\xbar".


Your complaint is that "invalid" escapes like \y resolve to a literal 
backslash-y instead of raising an error. But \xbar doesn't contain an 
invalid escape, it contains a valid hex escape. Your ignorance that \xHH 
is a valid hex escape (for suitable hex digits) isn't an example of an 
error caused by "invalid" escapes like \y.



> "\xba" isn't an escape sequence in any other language that I've used,
> which is one reason I made this error... Oh, wait a minute -- it *is* an
> escape sequence in JavaScript. But in JavaScript, while "\xba" is a
> special character, "\xb" is synonymous with "xb".
> 
> The fact that every language seems to treat these things similarly but
> differently, is yet another reason why they should just be treated
> utterly consistently by all of the languages: I.e., escape sequences
> that don't have a special meaning should be an error!

Perhaps all the other languages should follow Python's lead instead?

Or perhaps they should follow bash's lead, and map \C to C for every 
character. If there were no special escapes at all, Windows programmers 
wouldn't keep getting burnt when they write "C:\\Documents\today\foo" and 
end up with something completely unexpected.

Oh wait, no, that still wouldn't work, because they'd end up with 
C:\Documentstodayfoo. So copying bash doesn't work.

But copying C will upset the bash coders, because they'll write 
"some\ file\ with\ spaces" and suddenly their code won't even compile!!!

Seems like no matter what you do, you're going to upset *somebody*.



>> I've never seen anyone write to
>> this newsgroup confused over escape behaviour,
> 
> My friend objects strongly the claim that he is "confused" by it, so I
> guess you are right that no one is confused. He just thinks that it
> violates the beautiful sense of aesthetics that he was sworn over and
> over again Python to have.

Fair enough.



-- 
Steven


From no.i.dont at want.mail.from.spammers.com  Mon Aug 10 05:23:57 2009
From: no.i.dont at want.mail.from.spammers.com (Fencer)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 11:23:57 +0200
Subject: Problem with join in__str__() in class (newbie)
In-Reply-To: 
References: <7e8ek2F2dre5lU1@mid.individual.net>
	
	<7e8g3vF2etertU1@mid.individual.net>
	
	<7e8keqF2eib0lU1@mid.individual.net> 
Message-ID: <7ea79eF2esi87U1@mid.individual.net>

Piet van Oostrum wrote:
[snip]

Thanks for your detailed reply!

- Fencer


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Mon Aug 10 05:34:38 2009
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 10 Aug 2009 09:34:38 GMT
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<246b6a1d-7e83-4ad3-9978-c2a55b884a6c@o13g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Douglas Alan  wrote:

> "\xba" isn't an escape sequence in any other language that I've used,
> which is one reason I made this error... Oh, wait a minute -- it *is*
> an escape sequence in JavaScript. But in JavaScript, while "\xba" is a
> special character, "\xb" is synonymous with "xb".
> 

"\xba" is an escape sequence in c, c++, c#, python, javascript, perl and 
probably many others.

"\xb" is an escape sequence in c, c++, c# but not in Python, Javascript, or 
Perl. Python will throw ValueError if you try to use "\xb" in a string, 
Javascript simply ignores the backslash.

> The fact that every language seems to treat these things similarly but
> differently, is yet another reason why they should just be treated
> utterly consistently by all of the languages: I.e., escape sequences
> that don't have a special meaning should be an error!

It would be nice if these things were treated consistently, but they aren't 
and it seems unlikely to change.



-- 
Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Aug 10 05:40:24 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 10 Aug 2009 09:40:24 GMT
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<3611ca55-79a6-4336-9041-07d0893789f7@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 00:32:30 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:

> In C++, if I know that the code I'm looking at compiles, then I never
> need worry that I've misinterpreted what a string literal means.

If you don't know what your string literals are, you don't know what your 
program does. You can't expect the compiler to save you from semantic 
errors. Adding escape codes into the string literal doesn't change this 
basic truth.

Semantics matters, and unlike syntax, the compiler can't check it. 
There's a difference between a program that does the equivalent of:

    os.system("cp myfile myfile~")

and one which does this

    os.system("rm myfile myfile~")


The compiler can't save you from typing 1234 instead of 11234, or 31.45 
instead of 3.145, or "My darling Ho" instead of "My darling Jo", so why 
do you expect it to save you from typing "abc\d" instead of "abc\\d"?

Perhaps it can catch *some* errors of that type, but only at the cost of 
extra effort required to defeat the compiler (forcing the programmer to 
type \\d to prevent the compiler complaining about \d). I don't think the 
benefit is worth the cost. You and your friend do. Who is to say you're 
right?



> At
> least not if it doesn't have any escape characters in it that I'm not
> familiar with. But in Python, if I see, "\f\o\o\b\a\z", I'm not really
> sure what I'm seeing, as I surely don't have committed to memory some of
> the more obscure escape sequences. If I saw this in C++, and I knew that
> it was in code that compiled, then I'd at least know that there are some
> strange escape codes that I have to look up. 

And if you saw that in Python, you'd also know that there are some 
strange escape codes that you have to look up. Fortunately, in Python, 
that's really simple:

>>> "\f\o\o\b\a\z"
'\x0c\\o\\o\x08\x07\\z'

Immediately you can see that the \o and \z sequences resolve to 
themselves, and the \f \b and \a don't.



> Unlike with Python, it
> would never be the case in C++ code that the programmer who wrote the
> code was just too lazy to type in "\\f\\o\\o\\b\\a\\z" instead.

But if you see "abc\n", you can't be sure whether the lazy programmer 
intended "abc"+newline, or "abc"+backslash+"n". Either way, the compiler 
won't complain.


 
>> You just have to memorize it. If you don't know what a backslash escape
>> is going to do, why would you use it?
> 
> (1) You're looking at code that someone else wrote, or (2) you forget to
> type "\\" instead of "\" in your code (or get lazy sometimes), as that
> is okay most of the time, and you inadvertently get a subtle bug.

The same error can occur in C++, if you intend \\n but type \n by 
mistake. Or vice versa. The compiler won't save you from that.



>> This is especially important when reading (as opposed to writing) code.
>> You read somebody else's code, and see "foo\xbar\n". Let's say you know
>> it compiles without warning. Big deal -- you don't know what the escape
>> codes do unless you've memorized them. What does \n resolve to? chr(13)
>> or chr(97) or chr(0)? Who knows?
> 
> It *is* a big deal. Or at least a non-trivial deal. It means that you
> can tell just by looking at the code that there are funny characters in
> the string, and not just a backslashes. 

I'm not entirely sure why you think that's a big deal. Strictly speaking, 
there are no "funny characters", not even \0, in Python. They're all just 
characters. Perhaps the closest is newline (which is pretty obvious).



> You don't have to go running for
> the manual every time you see code with backslashes, where the upshot
> might be that the programmer was merely saving themselves some typing.

Why do you care if there are "funny characters"?

In C++, if you see an escape you don't recognize, do you care? Do you go 
running for the manual? If the answer is No, then why do it in Python?

And if the answer is Yes, then how is Python worse than C++?


[...]
> Also, it seems that Python is being inconsistent here. Python knows that
> the string "\x" doesn't contain a full escape sequence, so why doesn't
> it
> treat the string "\x" the same way that it treats the string "\z"?
[...]
> I.e., "\z" is not a legal escape sequence, so it gets left as "\\z".

No. \z *is* a legal escape sequence, it just happens to map to \z.

If you stop thinking of \z as an illegal escape sequence that Python 
refuses to raise an error for, the problem goes away. It's a legal escape 
sequence that maps to backslash + z.



> "\x" is not a legal escape sequence. Shouldn't it also get left as
> "\\x"?

No, because it actually is an illegal escape sequence.



>> > He's particularly annoyed too, that if he types "foo\xbar" at the
>> > REPL, it echoes back as "foo\\xbar". He finds that to be some sort of
>> > annoying DWIM feature, and if Python is going to have DWIM features,
>> > then it should, for example, figure out what he means by "\" and not
>> > bother him with a syntax error in that case.
>>
>> Now your friend is confused. This is a good thing. Any backslash you
>> see in Python's default string output is *always* an escape:
> 
> Well, I think he's more annoyed that if Python is going to be so helpful
> as to put in the missing "\" for you in "foo\zbar", then it should put
> in the missing "\" for you in "\". He considers this to be an
> inconsistency.

(1) There is no missing \ in "foo\zbar".

(2) The problem with "\" isn't a missing backslash, but a missing end-
quote.





> Me, I'd never, ever, EVER want a language to special-case something at
> the end of a string, but I can see that from his new-to-Python
> perspective, Python seems to be DWIMing in one place and not the other,
> and he thinks that it should either do no DWIMing at all, or
> consistently DWIM. To not be consistent in this regard is "inelegant",
> says he.

Python isn't DWIMing here. The rules are simple and straightforward, 
there's no mind-reading or guessing required. There is no heuristic 
trying to predict what the user intends. It's a simple rule:

When parsing a string literal (apart from raw strings), if you see a 
backslash, then grab the next token (usually a single character, but for 
\x and \0 it could be multiple characters). If there is a mapping 
available for that token, insert that in the string being built, and if 
not, insert the backslash and the token.

(As I said earlier, this may not be precisely how it is implemented, but 
functionally, it is what Python does.)


> And I can see his point that allowing "foo\zbar" and "foo\\zbar" to be
> synonymous is a form of DWIMing.

Is it "a form of DWIMing" to consider 1.234e1 and 12.34  synonymous?

What about 86 and 0x44? Is that DWIMing?

I'm sure both you and your friend are excellent programmers, but you're 
tossing around DWIM as a meaningless term of opprobrium without any 
apparent understand of what DWIM actually is.




-- 
Steven



From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Mon Aug 10 05:41:52 2009
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 10 Aug 2009 09:41:52 GMT
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<246b6a1d-7e83-4ad3-9978-c2a55b884a6c@o13g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Steven D'Aprano  wrote:

> Or perhaps they should follow bash's lead, and map \C to C for every 
> character. If there were no special escapes at all, Windows
> programmers wouldn't keep getting burnt when they write
> "C:\\Documents\today\foo" and end up with something completely
> unexpected. 
> 
> Oh wait, no, that still wouldn't work, because they'd end up with 
> C:\Documentstodayfoo. So copying bash doesn't work.
> 

There is of course no problem at all so long as you stick to writing your 
paths as MS intended them to be written: 8.3 and UPPERCASE

>>> "C:\DOCUME~1\TODAY\FOO"
'C:\\DOCUME~1\\TODAY\\FOO'

:^)


-- 
Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com


From garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk  Mon Aug 10 05:43:08 2009
From: garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk (garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:43:08 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: install tarball package Python on Debian,
	necessary modules not found
References: 
Message-ID: 

Fr?d?ric L?ger  wrote:

> I use Debian Lenny and I tried to install the tarball packaging of the
> lastest python realease (http://www.python.org/download/, release
> 3.1). After read README file I launch standard Makefile commands. But
> at the end of "make" command, I have got this message:
> 

Maybe you know, but there is python3.1 deb in experimental. Works with
testing like a charm. It is also possible to install ubuntu's 3.X into
debian.

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------
| Radovan Garab?k http://kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk/~garabik/ |
| __..--^^^--..__    garabik @ kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk     |
 -----------------------------------------------------------
Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus.
Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!


From thangappan143 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 05:45:07 2009
From: thangappan143 at gmail.com (Thangappan.M)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:15:07 +0530
Subject: Problem in installing PyGreSQL
In-Reply-To: 
References: <7aa29e790908032045p3b52a633m8d0e366a0f648b@mail.gmail.com>
	<7f0b4d2b1d5bd3f3057ead3b029059b9@preisshare.net>
	<20090804084856.b825967a.darcy@druid.net>
	
	<20090804095547.a5274e22.darcy@druid.net> 
	<7aa29e790908060330x67d900a9rfb4677eaf0eddeb@mail.gmail.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <7aa29e790908100245k3c08dc36mcebbfa48a0d6bdc4@mail.gmail.com>

Here I attached the setup.py and setup.cfg file.This is for your reference.
I have changed the exception line.
Even though I got the following error while running the python setup.py
build
running build
running build_py
running build_ext
error: No such file or directory

===========================================

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 7:38 PM, Scott David Daniels
wrote:

> Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 6 Aug 2009 16:00:15 +0530, "Thangappan.M"
>>  declaimed the following in
>> gmane.comp.python.general:
>>
>>>  File "./setup.py", line 219, in finalize_options
>>>    except (Warning, w):
>>> NameError: global name 'w' is not defined
>>>
>>> What would be the solution?
>>> Otherwise can you tell how to install DB-API in debian machine.
>>>
>>        Sorry... 1) I run on WinXP; 2) I don't build packages, relying on
>> pre-built binaries; 3) I run MySQL.
>>
>>        However, based upon the examples in the Tutorial, that line should
>> not have the (, ). A parenthesised (tuple) is suppose to contain a list
>> of exceptions, and the parameter to catch the exception specifics has to
>> be outside the list.
>>
>>        Best I can suggest is editing that particular line and removing the
>> (, ) -- then try rebuilding.
>>
>>        I'll also re-ask: All you are installing is the Python adapter to
>> the database. DO YOU HAVE A RUNNING PostgreSQL server that you can
>> connect to?
>>
>
> Just to be a bit more explict:
> Change file setup.py's line 219 from:
> >>     except (Warning, w):
> to either (OK in Python 2.6 and greater):
>       except Warning as w:
> or (works for Python 2.X):
>       except Warning, w:
>
>
> --Scott David Daniels
> Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
Regards,
Thangappan.M
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From manu3d at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 06:01:30 2009
From: manu3d at gmail.com (Emanuele D'Arrigo)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 03:01:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: exec("dir()",d)
References: <9adbf402-3e7e-44a4-adb3-afc36d5d88ba@33g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <138a15c5-a39b-427a-91c6-47ce7dd52a78@f33g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>

Thank you both for the explanation.

As a matter of fact RTFM doesn't -always- help. Sometimes I'm just
thick and I can read the manual 10 times and still not understand, as
it happened on this particular matter. Your contribution focused my
attention on the right bit of the manual which I somehow didn't manage
to ingest before. Now I understand.

Thank you.

Manu


From deets at nospam.web.de  Mon Aug 10 06:52:26 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 12:52:26 +0200
Subject: Cython + setuptools not working with .pyx,only with .c-files
References: <7dvq5fF2e21b7U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<4a7c56e0$0$31871$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <7eacfaF2fi1s2U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Stefan Behnel wrote:

> Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
>> I'm trying to build a Cython-extension as Egg.
>> 
>> However, this doesn't work - I can either use distutils to build the
>> extension, creating a myextension.c-file on the way.
>> 
>> If that's there, I can use setuptools to build the egg.
>> 
>> But when I remove the .c-file, the .pyx-file isn't used to re-generate
>> it.
> 
> setuptools monkeypatch into distutils to support Pyrex if it's installed,
> but most non-bleeding-edge versions do not know about Cython and thus
> break the Cython distutils support when Pyrex isn't there as well.
> 
> What helps is to put a fake Pyrex installation into your sys.path, like
> 
> http://codespeak.net/svn/lxml/trunk/fake_pyrex/
> 
> as done at the top of
> 
> http://codespeak.net/svn/lxml/trunk/setup.py

Thanks, that did the trick for us.

Diez


From subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 07:26:57 2009
From: subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com (joy99)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 04:26:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Problem Regarding Handling of Unicode string
Message-ID: <9ac0e194-9e25-468a-9807-957ef3142dd3@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

Dear Group,

I am using Python26 on WindowsXP with service pack2. My GUI is IDLE.
I am using Hindi resources and get nice output like:
??
where I can use all the re functions and other functions without doing
any transliteration,etc.
I was trying to use Bengali but it is giving me output like:
'\xef\xbb\xbf\xe0\xa6\x85\xe0\xa6\xa8\xe0\xa7\x87\xe0\xa6\x95'
I wanted to see Bengali output as
????
and I like to use all functions including re.
If any one can help me on that.
Best Regards,
Subhabrata.


From nair.jitendra at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 07:39:03 2009
From: nair.jitendra at gmail.com (jitu)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 04:39:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Problem when fetching page using urllib2.urlopen
Message-ID: <2f1086ba-26ba-42a8-b5de-27581fa853e3@12g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

A html page  contains 'anchor' elements with 'href' attribute  having
a semicolon  in the url , while fetching the page using
urllib2.urlopen, all such href's  containing  'semicolons' are
truncated.


For example the href http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide-6901959-pune_restaurants-i;_ylt=AlWSqpkpqhICp1lMgChtJkCdGWoL
get truncated to http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide-6901959-pune_restaurants-i

The page I am talking about can be fetched from
http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide-485468-pune_india_vacations-i;_ylc=X3oDMTFka28zOGNuBF9TAzI3NjY2NzkEX3MDOTY5NTUzMjUEc2VjA3NzcC1kZXN0BHNsawN0aXRsZQ--

Thanks a Lot
Regards
jitu



From eckhardt at satorlaser.com  Mon Aug 10 07:41:01 2009
From: eckhardt at satorlaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 13:41:01 +0200
Subject: Problem Regarding Handling of Unicode string
References: <9ac0e194-9e25-468a-9807-957ef3142dd3@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

joy99 wrote:
> [...] it is giving me output like:
> '\xef\xbb\xbf\xe0\xa6\x85\xe0\xa6\xa8\xe0\xa7\x87\xe0\xa6\x95'
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^

These three bytes encode the byte-order marker (BOM, Unicode uFEFF) as
UTF-8, followed by codepoint u09a8 (look it up on unicode.org what that
is).

In any case, if this is produced as output, there is some missing
encoding/decoding going on. You mentioned that it works in one case but
doesn't in another. Since you didn't provide any information how to
reproduce what you saw, any further help is at most guesswork.

Uli

-- 
Sator Laser GmbH
Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Thorsten F?cking, Amtsgericht Hamburg HR B62 932



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Aug 10 07:41:08 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 12:41:08 +0100
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
In-Reply-To: 
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	
	
Message-ID: <4A800754.20907@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 17:56:55 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:
> 
[snip]
>> My point of view is that
>> every language has *some* warts; Python just has a bit fewer than most.
>> It would have been nice, I should think, if this wart had been "fixed"
>> in Python 3, as I do consider it to be a minor wart.
> 
> And if anyone had cared enough to raise it a couple of years back, it 
> possibly might have been.
> 
My preference would've been that a backslash followed by A-Z, a-z, or
0-9 is special, but a backslash followed by any other character is just
the character, except for backslash followed by a newline, which
suppresses the newline.

I would also have preferred a backslash in a raw string to always be a
literal.

Ah well, something for Python 4.x. :-)


From nair.jitendra at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 07:43:12 2009
From: nair.jitendra at gmail.com (jitu)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 04:43:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Problem when fetching page using urllib2.urlopen
References: <2f1086ba-26ba-42a8-b5de-27581fa853e3@12g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0579ebc0-2542-4f96-af3e-9861ad646b13@d9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 10, 4:39?pm, jitu  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> A html page ?contains 'anchor' elements with 'href' attribute ?having
> a semicolon ?in the url , while fetching the page using
> urllib2.urlopen, all such href's ?containing ?'semicolons' are
> truncated.
>
> For example the hrefhttp://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide-6901959-pune_restaurants-i;_ylt...
> get truncated tohttp://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide-6901959-pune_restaurants-i
>
> The page I am talking about can be fetched fromhttp://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide-485468-pune_india_vacations-i;_...
>
> Thanks a Lot
> Regards
> jitu

Hi

   Sorry, the question what I wanted to ask was, whether is this the
correct behaviour or a bug ?


Thanks A Lot.
Regards
jitu


From sibtey.mehndi at genpact.com  Mon Aug 10 08:23:56 2009
From: sibtey.mehndi at genpact.com (Mehndi, Sibtey)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 17:53:56 +0530
Subject: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
Message-ID: <1A343A98C8DAE44A8D9D1BF310F90D5E0141163674@GCPWINGGN2EVS11.IND.CORP.AD>

Hi
I am trying to create a COM object of picalo functionalities so that I can use it into my VB application but I am getting the following error "[Errno 9] bad file descriptor".
Can you please suggest me what is supposed to do to avoid this problem?

This is my code

class Test(object):
    _reg_progid_ = "test"
    _reg_clsid_ = "{D2EFAAC0-797A-471A-AA07-ECEACFE33A08}"
    _public_methods_ = ['dbconnect']


    def dbconnect(self, dbName, dbUserName, dbPWD, dbHost, dbPort):
        try:
            self.conn = Database.MySQLConnection(dbName, username=dbUserName, password=dbPWD, host=dbHost, port=dbPort)
            self.table = self.conn.table( "SELECT * FROM test_flag_data")
            return  "connected"
        except Exception,e:
            return str(e)

Thanks,
Sibty



This e-mail (and any attachments), is confidential and may be privileged. It may be read, copied and used only
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From nadiasvertex at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 08:41:28 2009
From: nadiasvertex at gmail.com (Christopher)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 05:41:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: www.python.org website is down?
References: 
	
	
	<4A7DC141.9070207@v.loewis.de>
	<54581bf3-c9a1-4bbf-945c-28d436ffda2a@k13g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<4cea29ee-cc89-4494-aef9-0f46f8dd11b9@2g2000prl.googlegroups.com> 
	<80c46b94-9df2-43f5-9182-37c2413db783@b25g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 8, 5:50?pm, Pouya Khankhanian  wrote:
> On Aug 8, 11:49?am, Sharath  wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Aug 8, 11:33?am, Pouya Khankhanian  wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 8, 11:17?am, "Martin v. L?wis"  wrote:
>
> > > > > This is probably a stupid question, but Is there going to be any data
> > > > > loss if it turns out that the disk has died completely? I assume there
> > > > > are backups of the repo that are geographically distributed.
>
> > > > Yes, we have backups, and are restoring them at the moment. However,
> > > > we still haven't given up on the original disks: they are (probably)
> > > > fine; it's just the RAID controller that has failed (and we can't buy a
> > > > replacement before Monday).
>
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Martin
>
> > > Is there a mirror site to download the latest python installer? Every
> > > mirror I have found on the web redirects me to python.org.
> > > Best
> > > Peter
>
> > Python FTP mirror sites also have the same problem. They are not being
> > mirrored for some require a password. Is there any other way to get a
> > copy?
>
> > Sharath Venkatesha
>
> Website is back up! Thanks for all the hard work

Actually, it appears to be down again.


From kdawg44 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 08:47:19 2009
From: kdawg44 at gmail.com (Kevin Holleran)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 08:47:19 -0400
Subject: Changing Remote Registry
In-Reply-To: <4A7C6D96.3000201@timgolden.me.uk>
References: <5caea3690908070652v2ccb3ac8s4336266afe71dcb5@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A7C6D96.3000201@timgolden.me.uk>
Message-ID: <5caea3690908100547l65394e65le111d8f3dda9e903@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 2:08 PM, Tim Golden  wrote:

> Kevin Holleran wrote:
>
>> Long story short, I am using _winreg to do this.
>>
>> hKey = _winreg.OpenKey (keyPath, path, 0, _winreg.KEY_SET_VALUE)
>> value,type = _winreg.QueryValueEx(hKey, item)
>> if (value == wrongValue):
>>       _winreg.SetValue(hKey,'',_winreg.REG_SZ,correctValue)
>>
>>
>> When I do this I receive the error:
>>
>> _winreg.SetValue WindowsError: [Error 5] Access Denied
>>
>
> As an alternative, try using WMI instead. You'll have to look up the docs
> a bit, but to get you started:
>
> 
> import wmi
>
> reg = wmi.WMI ("remote-machine", namespace="default").StdRegProv
>
> print reg.methods.keys ()
>
> 
>
> TJG
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


Thank you for your response.

I actually started with the WMI wrapper but isn't that just a wrapper that
utilizes (in this case) the _winreg module?

I guess my question is will Windows let me change the registry remotely?
The error is a Windows permission error on the KEY_SET_VALUE.  I am running
this as a domain admin on a machine on the domain.  Does the connection
inherit the credentials I am running it under or will I need to pass those
in?  Or does Windows simply not let me change the registry?

To me its not worth too much trouble.  If I can change it in place it saves
me just a little bit of work because I have to touch each machine anyway for
other reasons.  The big difference is that I can change all the machines I
have to touch right now and get them fixed up or these folks are just going
to have to wait until I get to each one.

Thanks for all your help and support.

Kevin
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From ebonak at hotmail.com  Mon Aug 10 08:50:21 2009
From: ebonak at hotmail.com (Esmail)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 08:50:21 -0400
Subject: compression level with tarfile (w:gz) ?
Message-ID: 

Hello,

I was wondering if it possible to specify a compression level when I
tar/gzip a file in Python using the tarfile module. I would like to
specify the highest (9) compression level for gzip.

Ideally:

    t = tarfile.open(tar_file_name+'.tar.gz', mode='w:gz:9')

When I create a simple tar and then gzip it 'manually' with compression
level 9, I get a smaller archive than when I have this code execute with
the w:gz option.

Is the only way to accomplish the higher rate to create a tar file
and then use a different module to gzip it (assuming I can specify
the compression level there)?

Thanks,
Esmail

-----------------
My current code:
-----------------

def tar_it_up(target_dir_name, tar_file_name=None):
     '''
     tar up target_dir_name directory and create a
     tar/zip file with base name tar_file_name

     appends a date/timestamp to tar_file_name
     '''

     time_string = time.strftime("_%b_%d_%Y_%a_%H_%M")

     if tar_file_name is None:
         tar_file_name = target_dir_name

     tar_file_name += time_string

     print ('Creating archive of %s ...' % target_dir_name),

     t = tarfile.open(tar_file_name+'.tar.gz', mode='w:gz')
#   t = tarfile.open(tar_file_name+'.tar', mode='w')
     t.add(target_dir_name)
     t.close()

     print ('saved to %s.tar.gz' % tar_file_name)



From contact at xavierho.com  Mon Aug 10 08:51:21 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 22:51:21 +1000
Subject: www.python.org website is down?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
	<4A7DC141.9070207@v.loewis.de>
	<54581bf3-c9a1-4bbf-945c-28d436ffda2a@k13g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<4cea29ee-cc89-4494-aef9-0f46f8dd11b9@2g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
	<80c46b94-9df2-43f5-9182-37c2413db783@b25g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908100551v6ad45fb3u5b77adc0149051d8@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 10:41 PM, Christopher wrote:

>
> Actually, it appears to be down again.
>

Nope, works for me, just a little slow.

-Xav
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From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Mon Aug 10 09:19:43 2009
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:19:43 -0400
Subject: compression level with tarfile (w:gz) ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 8:50 AM, Esmail wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I was wondering if it possible to specify a compression level when I
> tar/gzip a file in Python using the tarfile module. I would like to
> specify the highest (9) compression level for gzip.
>
> Ideally:
>
> ? t = tarfile.open(tar_file_name+'.tar.gz', mode='w:gz:9')
>
> When I create a simple tar and then gzip it 'manually' with compression
> level 9, I get a smaller archive than when I have this code execute with
> the w:gz option.
>

Looking at the tarfile docs, it seems that there are tarfile.gzopen
and tarfile.bz2open functions that have a compresslevel parameter that
defaults to 9. You can't append using those functions but you can read
and write.

> Is the only way to accomplish the higher rate to create a tar file
> and then use a different module to gzip it (assuming I can specify
> the compression level there)?
>
> Thanks,
> Esmail
>
> -----------------
> My current code:
> -----------------
>
> def tar_it_up(target_dir_name, tar_file_name=None):
> ? ?'''
> ? ?tar up target_dir_name directory and create a
> ? ?tar/zip file with base name tar_file_name
>
> ? ?appends a date/timestamp to tar_file_name
> ? ?'''
>
> ? ?time_string = time.strftime("_%b_%d_%Y_%a_%H_%M")
>
> ? ?if tar_file_name is None:
> ? ? ? ?tar_file_name = target_dir_name
>
> ? ?tar_file_name += time_string
>
> ? ?print ('Creating archive of %s ...' % target_dir_name),
>
> ? ?t = tarfile.open(tar_file_name+'.tar.gz', mode='w:gz')
> # ? t = tarfile.open(tar_file_name+'.tar', mode='w')
> ? ?t.add(target_dir_name)
> ? ?t.close()
>
> ? ?print ('saved to %s.tar.gz' % tar_file_name)
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From ebonak at hotmail.com  Mon Aug 10 09:37:14 2009
From: ebonak at hotmail.com (Esmail)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:37:14 -0400
Subject: compression level with tarfile (w:gz) ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

Benjamin Kaplan wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 8:50 AM, Esmail wrote:
>>
>> I was wondering if it possible to specify a compression level when I
>> tar/gzip a file in Python using the tarfile module. I would like to
>> specify the highest (9) compression level for gzip.
>>
>> Ideally:
>>
>>   t = tarfile.open(tar_file_name+'.tar.gz', mode='w:gz:9')
<..>
> 
> Looking at the tarfile docs, it seems that there are tarfile.gzopen
> and tarfile.bz2open functions that have a compresslevel parameter that
> defaults to 9. You can't append using those functions but you can read
> and write.

Hi Benjamin,

I can't find tarfile.gzopen  in the tarfile docs, I'm looking here:

     http://docs.python.org/library/tarfile.html

Am I looking at the wrong page?

Thanks,

Esmail



From lars at gustaebel.de  Mon Aug 10 09:41:08 2009
From: lars at gustaebel.de (Lars =?iso-8859-1?Q?Gust=E4bel?=)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:41:08 +0200
Subject: compression level with tarfile (w:gz) ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <20090810134108.GA7790@axis.g33x.de>

On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 08:50:21AM -0400, Esmail wrote:
> I was wondering if it possible to specify a compression level when I
> tar/gzip a file in Python using the tarfile module. I would like to
> specify the highest (9) compression level for gzip.

tarfile uses gzip.GzipFile() internally, GzipFile()'s default compression level
is 9.

> When I create a simple tar and then gzip it 'manually' with compression
> level 9, I get a smaller archive than when I have this code execute with
> the w:gz option.

How much smaller is it? I did a test with a recent Linux kernel source tree
which made an archive of 337MB. Command-line gzip was ahead of Python's
GzipFile() by just 20200 bytes(!) with an archive of about 74MB.

> Is the only way to accomplish the higher rate to create a tar file
> and then use a different module to gzip it (assuming I can specify
> the compression level there)?

If you need the disk space that badly, the alternative would be to pipe
tarfile's output to command-line gzip somehow:

fobj = open("result.tar.gz", "w")
proc = subprocess.Popen(["gzip", "-9"], stdin=subprocess.PIPE, stdout=fobj)
tar = tarfile.open(fileobj=proc.stdin, mode="w|")
tar.add(...)
tar.close()
proc.stdin.close()
fobj.close()

Cheers,

-- 
Lars Gust?bel
lars at gustaebel.de

A physicist is an atom's way of knowing about atoms.
(George Wald)


From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Mon Aug 10 09:55:06 2009
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:55:06 -0400
Subject: compression level with tarfile (w:gz) ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 9:37 AM, Esmail wrote:
> Benjamin Kaplan wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 8:50 AM, Esmail wrote:
>>>
>>> I was wondering if it possible to specify a compression level when I
>>> tar/gzip a file in Python using the tarfile module. I would like to
>>> specify the highest (9) compression level for gzip.
>>>
>>> Ideally:
>>>
>>> ?t = tarfile.open(tar_file_name+'.tar.gz', mode='w:gz:9')
>
> <..>
>>
>> Looking at the tarfile docs, it seems that there are tarfile.gzopen
>> and tarfile.bz2open functions that have a compresslevel parameter that
>> defaults to 9. You can't append using those functions but you can read
>> and write.
>
> Hi Benjamin,
>
> I can't find tarfile.gzopen ?in the tarfile docs, I'm looking here:
>
> ? ?http://docs.python.org/library/tarfile.html
>
> Am I looking at the wrong page?
>

My mistake. It isn't a function of the tarfile module, it's a class
method of tarfile.TarFile. I was looking at the help in the
interactive interpreter. It doesn't seem to be in the official docs,
but you can use pydoc to view the docstrings.

> Thanks,
>
> Esmail
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 09:57:43 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 06:57:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: www.python.org website is down?
References: 
	
Message-ID: <1d952f0b-9552-48ef-ad2e-a7b8e06ea8eb@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 8, 8:48?am, MRAB  wrote:
...(snip)
> Bothwww.python.organd svn.python.org are down. ?They're hosted on
> the same machine, and it seems to have run into disk problems and
> hasn't rebooted even after power-cycling. ?Thomas Wouters will be
> visiting the machine physically tomorrow to try to diagnose the
> problem.

Oh stop lying MRAB, everybody knows Guido hosts Python.org from his
attic on an old Linux box :-)


From rurpy at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 10 10:01:04 2009
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 07:01:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <616c058c-2595-42fc-b80d-e599d5d6ad66@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 9, 10:02?pm, David Lyon  wrote:
...
> Before you do that, you should clearly work out in your own mind
> how you think things need to improve. It's not good enough just
> saying this or that is bad without having specific ideas on what
> needs to change.
'''

He did.  Did you read, for example, the critique of the gzip
docs for which he gave the url

   http://xahlee.org/perl-python/python_doc_gzip.html

There were some things I might not completely agree with
there, but basically, I thought it was right on, including
his suggestions on how to improve it.


From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 10:11:33 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 07:11:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 10, 4:37?am, Steven D'Aprano

> There is at least one good reason for preferring an error, namely that it
> allows Python to introduce new escape codes without going through a long,
> slow process. But the rest of these complaints are terribly unconvincing.


What about:

   o Beautiful is better than ugly
   o Explicit is better than implicit
   o Simple is better than complex
   o Readability counts
   o Special cases aren't special enough to break the rules
   o Errors should never pass silently

?

And most importantly:

   o In the face of ambiguity, refuse the temptation to guess.
   o There should be one -- and preferably only one -- obvious way to
do it.

?

So, what's the one obvious right way to express "foo\zbar"? Is it

   "foo\zbar"

or

   "foo\\zbar"

And if it's the latter, what possible benefit is there in allowing the
former?  And if it's the former, why does Python echo the latter?

|>ouglas


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Aug 10 10:13:12 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:13:12 +0100
Subject: www.python.org website is down?
In-Reply-To: <1d952f0b-9552-48ef-ad2e-a7b8e06ea8eb@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
References: 	
	<1d952f0b-9552-48ef-ad2e-a7b8e06ea8eb@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A802AF8.1000407@mrabarnett.plus.com>

r wrote:
> On Aug 8, 8:48 am, MRAB  wrote:
> ...(snip)
>> Bothwww.python.organd svn.python.org are down.  They're hosted on
>> the same machine, and it seems to have run into disk problems and
>> hasn't rebooted even after power-cycling.  Thomas Wouters will be
>> visiting the machine physically tomorrow to try to diagnose the
>> problem.
> 
> Oh stop lying MRAB, everybody knows Guido hosts Python.org from his
> attic on an old Linux box :-)

That was a quote from A.M. Kuchling.

It's actually hosted on a matchbox-sized multi-core multi-terabyte
wifi-enabled Linux machine that Guido brought back from 2050.
Unfortunately, the dog ate it, so he's had to go and buy another one!
:-)


From pruebauno at latinmail.com  Mon Aug 10 10:17:22 2009
From: pruebauno at latinmail.com (nn)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 07:17:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: syntax checker in python
References: 
Message-ID: <8bcca8f4-673c-4478-a2ad-fc292c761062@m20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 7, 4:39?pm, horos11  wrote:
> ps - I just realized that it isn't enough to do:
>
> python -c 'import /path/to/script'
>
> since that actually executes any statement inside of the script
> (wheras all I want to do is check syntax)
>
> So - let me reprhase that - exactly how can you do a syntax check in
> python? Something like perl's -c:
>
> ? ? ?perl -c script_name.p
>
> Ed

You might want to check PyFlakes; it doesn't execute scripts unlike
the others.

http://www.divmod.org/trac/wiki/DivmodPyflakes


From eckhardt at satorlaser.com  Mon Aug 10 10:37:25 2009
From: eckhardt at satorlaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:37:25 +0200
Subject: With or without leading underscore...
Message-ID: <5un5l6-fvn.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

...that is the question!

I have a module which exports a type. It also exports a function that
returns instances of that type. Now, the reason for my question is that
while users will directly use instances of the type, they will not create
instances of the type themselves.

So, the type is a part of the public API, but its constructor is not. Should
I mark the type as private (with a leading underscore) or not?

Thanks!

Uli

-- 
Sator Laser GmbH
Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Thorsten F?cking, Amtsgericht Hamburg HR B62 932



From mydevforums at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 10:48:31 2009
From: mydevforums at gmail.com (IronyOfLife)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 07:48:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python configuration question when python scripts are executed 
	using Appweb as web server.
References: 
	
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

Hi Gabriel

Thanks for the detailed and useful reply.


On Aug 7, 1:37?am, "Gabriel Genellina"  wrote:
> En Thu, 06 Aug 2009 12:49:30 -0300, IronyOfLife  ?
> escribi?:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 5, 4:18?pm, "Gabriel Genellina"  wrote:
> >> En Tue, 04 Aug 2009 10:15:24 -0300, IronyOfLife 
> >> escribi?:
> >> > On Aug 3, 8:42?pm, "Gabriel Genellina"  wrote:
> >> >> En Mon, 03 Aug 2009 11:04:07 -0300, IronyOfLife ?
> >>  ?
> >> >> escribi?:
>
> >> >> > I have installed python 2.6.2 in windows xp professional machine. I
> >> >> > have set the following environment variables -- PYTHONPATH. It ?
> >> points
> >> >> > to following windows folders: python root folder, the lib folder ?
> >> and
> >> >> > lib-tk folder.
>
> >> >> Why? Did you read it somewhere? Usually there is no need to set the ?
> >> >> PYTHONPATH variable at all; remove it.
>
> >> > Setting PYTHONPATH environment variables is mentioned in Python docs.
>
> >> Could you provide a link please? Setting PYTHONPATH should not be
>
> > Here are couple of links that discusses setting PYTHONPATH environment
> > variable.
> >http://docs.python.org/using/windows.html
>
> Ouch, that document should be reworked and updated!
>
> >http://www.daimi.au.dk/~chili/PBI/pythonpath.html
>
> That's mostly obsolete for current versions. Since PEP370 [0] was ?
> implemented, a per-user private directory is already in sys.path now, so ?
> there is no need to play with PYTHONPATH.

Thanks for the clarification on PYTHONPATH.
>
> > I understand your concerns regarding setting of PYTHONPATH while
> > multiple versions of Python are installed on the same machine. My fix
> > however does not use PYTHONPATH. The GNUTLS wrapper module for PYTHON
> > loads the GNUTLS dll's and it was not able to find them. Using FileMon
> > (win tool) I found out the paths that are scanned and I copied the
> > dlls to one of such paths. I still do not like this fix. This is a
> > temporary solution.
>
> Note that this cannot be fixed from inside Python. When you import a ?
> module, the interpreter scans the directories in ITS search path ?
> (sys.path) looking for a matching module. Once the module is found:
> - if it is a Python file, it's executed
> - if it is an extension module (a .pyd file, in fact a .dll renamed) it's ?
> loaded using LoadLibraryEx (a Windows function), and finally its ?
> initialization routine is executed.
>
> For LoadLibrary to successfully load the module, all its external ?
> references must be resolved. That is, Windows must locate and load all ?
> other DLLs that this module depends on, using its own search strategy [1], ?
> taking into account the PATH environment variable and many other places.
>
> It is at this stage that you get the error: when the gnutls wrapper ?
> attempts to load the gnutls DLL. That search is done by Windows, not by ?
> Python, and PYTHONPATH has nothing to do with it.
>
> Why different results in IIS and appweb? Note that there exist several ?
> search strategies, they depend on the application home directory, the ?
> location of the .exe, whether SetDllDirectory was called or not, whether ?
> the application has a manifest or not, a .local file or not... Hard to ?
> tell with so many variables.

This is fairly easy to explain. When I configured IIS to execute
python scripts, as per the documentation I pass two command line
arguments. Appweb works this way. It opens up a new command process
and in the function parameter for environment it sets only SYSTEMROOT.
It does not set the PATH variable (A BUG IN APPWEB which I have passed
on to them. They have not commented or provided any work around) for
Windows platform.

So while loading the gnutls client script is loaded, the following
path is searched
1. gnutls\library
2. C:\windows
3. C:\WIndows\system
4. C:\WIndows\system32
5. Folder where pyhton.exe is present.

And when I use IIS, the PATH variable is also set. So in this case all
the folders in the PATH are also searched and LoadLibrary is able to
successfully find the GNUTLS related Dlls without any issues.

You were mentioning about .local file or manifest file to specify the
path. I used the python's build command to build the wrapper. Is there
a way to mention in setup.py to generate the .manifest file? I wold
very much appreciate if you can help me with that.

I will also look for answers for how to modify setup.py to generate
manifest file or .local file etc..

>
> > Can you explain maybe with some sample how to set .pth files? Maybe
> > this will resolve my issue.
>
> Yes, but I don't think this will actually help with your issue.
>
> pth files are described here [2]. Suppose you want to add c:\foo\bar to ?
> sys.path, then write a file whatever.pth containing this single line:
>
> c:\foo\bar
>
> and place it on c:\your_python_installation\lib\site-packages
> When the interpreter starts, it will find the .pth file, read it, and add ?
> any directory it finds (that actually exists) to sys.path
>
> Note that another Python installation will use a diferent site-packages ?
> directory and won't find this particular .pth file, so different Python ?
> versions don't interfere.
>
> ---
>
> [0]http://python.org/dev/peps/pep-0370/
> [1]http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms682586(VS.85).aspx
> [2]http://docs.python.org/library/site.html
>
> --
> Gabriel Genellina



From ebonak at hotmail.com  Mon Aug 10 10:52:35 2009
From: ebonak at hotmail.com (Esmail)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 10:52:35 -0400
Subject: compression level with tarfile (w:gz) ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 		
	
Message-ID: 

Benjamin Kaplan wrote:
> 
>> I can't find tarfile.gzopen  in the tarfile docs, I'm looking here:
>>
>>    http://docs.python.org/library/tarfile.html
>>
>> Am I looking at the wrong page?
>>
> 
> My mistake. It isn't a function of the tarfile module, it's a class
> method of tarfile.TarFile. I was looking at the help in the
> interactive interpreter. It doesn't seem to be in the official docs,
> but you can use pydoc to view the docstrings.

Thanks for the additional information,

Esmail



From davea at ieee.org  Mon Aug 10 10:52:55 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 10:52:55 -0400
Subject: Need help in configuration for TimedRotatingFileHandler
In-Reply-To: 
References: <7e6938ce-91c9-4b65-980f-46d76bf69220@d36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>	<4A7F3C83.1040607@ieee.org>	
	
Message-ID: <4A803447.70607@ieee.org>

Lokesh Maremalla wrote:
> 
> Code:
> mlogger = logging.getLogger("simpleExample")
> def a_view(request):
>     mlogger.debug("a_view called")
>     if request.method== "POST" :
>         mlogger.debug("post function")
>     else:
>         mlogger.debug("serve function")
>
> Execution:
> step1: Executed the code and got the log file with the information
> step2: Modified the system time from current day to next day
> step3: End up with the error and the error is pasted below
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "c:\Python25\lib\logging\handlers.py", line 74, in emit
>     self.doRollover()
>   File "c:\Python25\lib\logging\handlers.py", line 274, in doRollover
>     os.rename(self.baseFilename, dfn)
> WindowsError: [Error 32] The process cannot access the file because it is
> being used by another process
>
> Python version - 2.5.4
>
> I guess my output should be like this for the next day
> -a new log file rotate_test. should generate in the respective
> location
>
> Please correct me if I am wrong.
>
>
> Thanks for your time.
>
> Regards,
> Lokesh
>
>   
Generally speaking, this error on os.rename() will occur if you haven't 
properly closed the file first, and if I recall correctly, Unix would 
have permitted a rename on an open file.  You're on Windows.  However, I 
don't know how that works with the logging package.  If the program has 
terminated, and you run it a second time on the following day (or after 
changing the system time), then I'd expect no trouble.  But I'm guessing 
your program is still running, and you just want to change from logging 
to yesterday's file to logging to today's file.

If I had to guess, I'd say that you have two instances of the logger 
running, and the second one is still holding the handle open.  But 
that's just a wild guess.

Could someone else who is familiar with logging, and with 
TimedRotatingFileHandler in particular, jump in here?  Preferably a 
Windows person?

DaveA


From matt.urry at googlemail.com  Mon Aug 10 10:54:38 2009
From: matt.urry at googlemail.com (ma3mju)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 07:54:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Processes not exiting
References: <6cfb2f39-c6d6-4d2a-882c-18f21addf206@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	
	<61d7fcbb-17f8-4314-90b6-0a6db22abd6d@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<01b55c48-3252-4cec-8781-98487a9071ae@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> 
	
	 
	<996e50f5-c126-4ac2-ae8d-458d22a26ee1@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<4b564f49-712c-408a-b8bd-9cff5af4a4fe@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: <049e9160-5a92-47b9-9ac6-8e01573d5689@p15g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On 7 Aug, 16:02, MRAB  wrote:
> ma3mju wrote:
> > On 3 Aug, 09:36, ma3mju  wrote:
> >> On 2 Aug, 21:49, Piet van Oostrum  wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>> MRAB  (M) wrote:
> >>>> M> I wonder whether one of the workers is raising an exception, perhaps due
> >>>> M> to lack of memory, when there are large number of jobs to process.
> >>> But that wouldn't prevent the join. And you would probably get an
> >>> exception traceback printed.
> >>> I wonder if something fishy is happening in the multiprocessing
> >>> infrastructure. Or maybe the Fortran code goes wrong because it has no
> >>> protection against buffer overruns and similar problems, I think.
> >>> --
> >>> Piet van Oostrum 
> >>> URL:http://pietvanoostrum.com[PGP8DAE142BE17999C4]
> >>> Private email: p... at vanoostrum.org
> >> I don't think it's a memory problem, the reason for the hard and easy
> >> queue is because for larger examples it uses far more RAM. If I run
> >> all of workers with harder problems I do begin to run out of RAM and
> >> end up spending all my time switching in and out of swap so I limit
> >> the number of harder problems I run at the same time. I've watched it
> >> run to the end (a very boring couple of hours) and it stays out of my
> >> swap space and everything appears to be staying in RAM. Just hangs
> >> after all "poison" has been printed for each process.
>
> >> The other thing is that I get the message "here" telling me I broke
> >> out of the loop after seeing the poison pill in the process and I get
> >> all the things queued listed as output surely if I were to run out of
> >> memory I wouldn't expect all of the jobs to be listed as output.
>
> >> I have a serial script that works fine so I know individually for each
> >> example the fortran code works.
>
> >> Thanks
>
> >> Matt
>
> > Any ideas for a solution?
>
> A workaround is to do them in small batches.
>
> You could put each job in a queue with a flag to say whether it's hard
> or easy, then:
>
> ? ? ?while have more jobs:
> ? ? ? ? ?move up to BATCH_SIZE jobs into worker queues
> ? ? ? ? ?create and start workers
> ? ? ? ? ?wait for workers to finish
> ? ? ? ? ?discard workers

Yeah, I was hoping for something with a bit more finesse. In the end I
used pool instead with a callback function and that has solved the
problem. I did today find this snippet;

Joining processes that use queues

    Bear in mind that a process that has put items in a queue will
wait before terminating until all the buffered items are fed by the
?feeder? thread to the underlying pipe. (The child process can call
the Queue.cancel_join_thread() method of the queue to avoid this
behaviour.)

    This means that whenever you use a queue you need to make sure
that all items which have been put on the queue will eventually be
removed before the process is joined. Otherwise you cannot be sure
that processes which have put items on the queue will terminate.
Remember also that non-daemonic processes will be automatically be
joined.


I don't know (not a computer scientist) but could it have been the
pipe getting full?

In case anyway else is effected by this I've attached the new code to
see the changes I made to fix it.

Thanks for all your help

Matt

============================================================================================================================
parallel.py
============================================================================================================================
import GaussianProcessRegression as GP
import numpy as np
import networkx as nx
import pickle
from multiprocessing import Pool

global result

def cb(r):
    global result
    print r
    result[r[0]] = r[1]


############################################################################################
# Things You Can Change
############################################################################################
#savefiles
savefile = "powerlaw"
graphfile = "powerlawgraph"
#sample sizes
num_graphs = 5
num_sets_of_data = 10
#other things...
intervals = np.ceil(np.logspace(-2,1,50)*500)
noise = [np.sqrt(0.1),np.sqrt(0.01),np.sqrt(0.001),np.sqrt(0.0001)]
num_hard_workers = 5
hard_work_threshold = 4000
############################################################################################
#generate graphs
graphs  = []
for i in range(0,num_graphs):
    graphs.append(nx.powerlaw_cluster_graph(500,0.1,0.05))
#save them for later reference
filehandler = open(graphfile,'w')
pickle.dump(graphs,filehandler,-1)
filehandler.close()

#queues
easy_work = []
hard_work = []

#construct the items in the hard queue
l=0
for j in range(0,len(intervals)):
    for i in range(0,len(noise)):
        for k in range(0,num_graphs):
            if int(intervals[j]) <=hard_work_threshold:
                easy_work.append({'datapt': l,'graph': graphs
[k],'noise': noise[i],'number_of_sets_of_data':
num_sets_of_data,'number_of_data_points':int(intervals[j])})
            else:
                hard_work.append({'datapt': l,'graph': graphs
[k],'noise': noise[i],'number_of_sets_of_data':
num_sets_of_data,'number_of_data_points':int(intervals[j])})
            l+=1

result = np.zeros(l)

#create pool with all cores possible
worker_pool = Pool()

for i in xrange(0,len(easy_work)):
    worker_pool.apply_async(GP.RandomWalkGeneralizationErrorParallel,
(easy_work[i],),callback=cb)

worker_pool.close()
worker_pool.join()

#create hard work queue
worker_pool = Pool(processes = num_hard_workers)

for i in xrange(0,len(hard_work)):
    worker_pool.apply_async(GP.RandomWalkGeneralizationErrorParallel,
(hard_work[i],),callback=cb)

worker_pool.close()
worker_pool.join()


finaldata = result.reshape((len(intervals),len(noise),num_graphs))
np.save(savefile,finaldata)

================================================================================================================================================
GaussianProcessRegression.py
================================================================================================================================================
import CovarianceFunction as CF
import networkx as nx
import numpy as np
import scipy.linalg as sp
#fortran code from lapack-blas (hopefully when scipy updated this wont
be needed)
import dtrsv

#Currently we assume Gaussian noise TODO change to general noise
#Assume 0 mean TODO change to general mean Gaussian Process
class GaussianProcessRegression:
    def __init__(self,covariance_function,sigma):
        #a covariance function object defined in CovarianceFunction
class
        #note this uses the parent class but any children can be used
        self.C = covariance_function
        #a list of pts that are known and their values
        self.pts = []
        self.vals = []
        #the inverse of K as defined in
        #@book{coolen05:theoryofneural,
	    #ISBN = {0-19-853024-2},
	    #publisher = {Oxford University Press, USA},
	    #author = {Coolen, A. C. C. and K{\"{u}}hn, R. and Sollich, P.},
	    #title = {Theory of neural information processing systems},
	    #year = {2005},
        #}
        self.K = np.array([])
        #gaussian noise variable
        self.sigma = float(sigma)
        self.cholL = np.array([])


    def add_data_points(self,points,vals):
       #add all points to list
       self.pts += points
       self.vals += vals
       arraysize = len(self.pts)
       #construct K
       K = np.zeros((arraysize,arraysize))
       #for speed
       pts = self.pts
       between_points = self.C.between_points
       if len(self.K):
            K[:-1,:-1] = self.K
       for i in xrange(0,arraysize):
           for j in xrange(arraysize-len(points),arraysize):
                 K[i,j] = between_points(pts[i],pts[j])
                 K[j,i] = K[i,j]
       K[arraysize-len(points):arraysize,arraysize-len
(points):arraysize] =  K[arraysize-len(points):arraysize,arraysize-len
(points):arraysize] + self.sigma**2 * np.eye(len(points))
       self.K = K

    #calculate the prediction of a point based on data previously
given
    def point_prediction(self,points):
        mean = []
        variance =[]
        arraysize = len(self.pts)
        #cholesky
        #if self.cholL.shape[0] < arraysize:
        L=np.linalg.cholesky(self.K)
        #    self.cholL = L
        #else:
        #    L = self.cholL

        alpha = sp.cho_solve((L,1),self.vals)
        #create L in banded form
        k=np.zeros((arraysize,len(points)))
 
##################################################################
        #for speed get ref to functions im going to use and save them
        between_points = self.C.between_points
        pts = self.pts
        dot = np.dot
 
##################################################################
        for j in xrange(0,len(points)):
            #create k
            for i in xrange(0,arraysize):
                k[i,j] = between_points(pts[i],points[j])

        #calculate mean and variance
        #call the command for forward substitution
        ###############fortran
call#######################################
        v = dtrsv.dtrsv('L','N',arraysize,L,k)
 
##################################################################

        #result
        mean=dot(alpha,k)
        for i in xrange(0,len(points)):
            variance.append(between_points(points[i],points[i]) - dot(v
[:,i],v[:,i]))
        #return it in dictionary form
        return {'mean':mean,'variance':variance}


    # calculate the error for data given, where function is a vector
    # of the function evaluated at a sufficiently large number of
points
    # that the GPregression has been trying to learn
    def error(self,function):
        total = 0
        #sum up variances
        result = self.point_prediction(function[::2])
        total = np.sum(result['variance'])
        total = (1/float(len(function)/2))*total
        return total

    #clear what has been learnt so far
    def clear(self):
        self.pts = []
        self.vals = []
        self.K = np.array([])

    #calculate the average error for a function defined in function
when give
    #number_of_examples examples
    def average_error_over_samples(self,function, sample_size,
number_of_examples):
        avg = 0
        numberofpoints = len(function)/2
        for i in range(0,sample_size):
            self.clear()
            #generate points of the function
            permpts = np.random.randint
(0,numberofpoints,number_of_examples)
            #create the vectors
            pts = []
            vals = []
            for j in range(0,number_of_examples):
                pts.append(function[permpts[j]*2])
                vals.append(function[permpts[j]*2+1])

            #learn these points
            self.add_data_points(pts,vals)
            #print("points added")
            avg = avg + self.error(function)
        avg = avg/sample_size
        return avg





From jura.grozni at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 10:55:42 2009
From: jura.grozni at gmail.com (azrael)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 07:55:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: wxpython question
Message-ID: <11f24035-bd42-4df8-879a-2e2558ee45ee@d23g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>

Is there maybe a method bounded to the class SpinCtrl() that could
hide the widget. One that is maybe also implemented in any other
control.

self.spcKvadDo = wx.SpinCtrl(id=-1, initial=0, max=1000000, min=0,
name='spcKvadDo', parent=self.pnlFilteri, pos=wx.Point(10, 10),
size=wx.Size(118, 21), style=wx.SP_ARROW_KEYS)

self.spcKvadOd.XXX()

I tried it with the SetTransparent() method but it did not work. Has
anyone any Idea?


From ebonak at hotmail.com  Mon Aug 10 10:55:42 2009
From: ebonak at hotmail.com (Esmail)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 10:55:42 -0400
Subject: compression level with tarfile (w:gz) ?
In-Reply-To: <20090810134108.GA7790@axis.g33x.de>
References:  <20090810134108.GA7790@axis.g33x.de>
Message-ID: 

Hi Lars,

Lars Gust?bel wrote:
> 
> How much smaller is it? I did a test with a recent Linux kernel source tree
> which made an archive of 337MB. Command-line gzip was ahead of Python's
> GzipFile() by just 20200 bytes(!) with an archive of about 74MB.
> 
>> Is the only way to accomplish the higher rate to create a tar file
>> and then use a different module to gzip it (assuming I can specify
>> the compression level there)?
> 
> If you need the disk space that badly, the alternative would be to pipe
> tarfile's output to command-line gzip somehow:

Thanks for the additional info and the workaround. I was mostly just
curious if there was a way to specify the compression level, so far
I'm ok with the generated file sizes, but it's good to know that there
are other options to specify my own compression level.

Thanks again,

Esmail



From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Mon Aug 10 10:55:51 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:55:51 +0200
Subject: With or without leading underscore...
In-Reply-To: <5un5l6-fvn.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
References: <5un5l6-fvn.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: 

10-08-2009 Ulrich Eckhardt  wrote:

> So, the type is a part of the public API, but its constructor is not.  
> Should
> I mark the type as private (with a leading underscore) or not?

IMHO you shouldn't (i.e. name should be marked "public") because of
possible usage of e.g. "isinstance(foo, YourType)".

Cheers,
*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From lutz at rmi.net  Mon Aug 10 10:58:11 2009
From: lutz at rmi.net (Mark Lutz)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 07:58:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Florida Python training in October
Message-ID: 

We're pleased to announce a new venue for our Python classes.
Python author and trainer Mark Lutz will be teaching a 3-day
Python class on October 20-22, in Sarasota, Florida.  Come
spend 3 days mastering Python, and enjoy all that Florida and
its Gulf Coast have to offer while you're here.

This is a public training session open to individual enrollments,
and covers the same topics and hands-on lab work as the over 200
onsite sessions that Mark has taught.  The class provides an
in-depth introduction to both Python and its common applications,
and parallels the instructor's best-selling Python books.

This class is also newly retooled to cover recent changes in
both Python 2.6 and 3.1.  Whether you're using 2.X, using 3.X,
or stuck somewhere between them, you'll find that our class is
aimed at your needs.  For more information on this session,
please visit its web page:

http://home.earthlink.net/~python-training/2009-public-classes.htm

For additional background on the class itself, as well as a
preview of our 2010 Florida class schedule, see our home page:

http://home.earthlink.net/~python-training

Thanks for your interest,
--Mark Lutz's Python Training Services


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Mon Aug 10 10:58:47 2009
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 07:58:47 -0700
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
In-Reply-To: 
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

Douglas Alan wrote:
> So, what's the one obvious right way to express "foo\zbar"? Is it
>    "foo\zbar"
> or
>    "foo\\zbar"
> And if it's the latter, what possible benefit is there in allowing the
> former?  And if it's the former, why does Python echo the latter?

Actually, if we were designing from fresh (with no C behind us), I might
advocate for "\s" to be the escape sequence for a backslash.  I don't
particularly like that it is hard to see if the following string
contains a tab:   "abc\\\\\\\\\table".  The string rules reflect C's
rules, and I see little excuse for trying to change them now.

--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Mon Aug 10 11:00:34 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 17:00:34 +0200
Subject: reloading the module imported as 'from ... import ...'
References: <4A7F976D.7090600@ggmail.com>
	
	<4A7FB4AF.7060107@ggmail.com>
	
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Steven D'Aprano  (SD) wrote:

>SD> On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 22:48:31 -0700, AlF wrote:
>>> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 20:43:41 -0700, AlF wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> 
>>>>> what is the best way to reload the module imported using 'from ...
>>>>> import ...'
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Have you tried "from ... import ..." again?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> I have not because of an assumption that "import" imports the module
>>> just once. 

>SD> Ah, of course the cached module will still reflect the older version. 
>SD> Sorry, I was thinking about solving a different problem:

If you do a reload in between the cached version is replaced by the new
version. However, objects from the old module that have references
before the reload will still lie around. This could cause very subtle
bugs.

Python 2.6.2 (r262:71600, Apr 16 2009, 09:17:39) 
[GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 5250)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import testmod
>>> from testmod import TestClass
>>> a = TestClass()
>>> b = TestClass()
>>> a.__class__ is b.__class__
True
>>> reload(testmod)

>>> c = TestClass()
>>> c.__class__ is a.__class__
True
>>> from testmod import TestClass
>>> d = TestClass()
>>> d.__class__ is a.__class__
False

-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From cornelius.keller at googlemail.com  Mon Aug 10 11:07:28 2009
From: cornelius.keller at googlemail.com (Cornelius Keller)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 08:07:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: variable & scoping question.
Message-ID: 

Hi,

I'm a quite fresh python programmer, (6 Month python experience).
Today I found something I absolotly don'nt understand:

given the following function:

def test_effect(class_id=None,class_ids=[]):
    if class_id is not None:
        if class_id not in class_ids:
            class_ids.append(int(class_id))

    print class_ids

I observe that the class_ids array is growing when it is called with
different class id's.

I expected class_ids to be [] if the keyword argument is not set, but
it seems to beahve like a static variable if not set.

example:


In [3]: test.test_effect(class_id=1)
[1]

In [4]: test.test_effect(class_id=1)
[1]

In [5]: test.test_effect(class_id=2)
[1, 2]

In [6]: test.test_effect(class_id=2)
[1, 2]

In [7]: test.test_effect(class_id=3)
[1, 2, 3]

Is this an intended python beahviour?

sincerly
- Cornelius






From deets at nospam.web.de  Mon Aug 10 11:12:29 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 17:12:29 +0200
Subject: variable & scoping question.
References: 
Message-ID: <7earmtF2f4tvnU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Cornelius Keller wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I'm a quite fresh python programmer, (6 Month python experience).
> Today I found something I absolotly don'nt understand:
> 
> given the following function:
> 
> def test_effect(class_id=None,class_ids=[]):
> ? ? if class_id is not None:
> ? ? ? ? if class_id not in class_ids:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? class_ids.append(int(class_id))
> 
> ? ? print class_ids
> 
> I observe that the class_ids array is growing when it is called with
> different class id's.
> 
> I expected class_ids to be [] if the keyword argument is not set, but
> it seems to beahve like a static variable if not set.

http://effbot.org/zone/default-values.htm

Diez


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 11:13:05 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 08:13:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 9, 11:02?pm, David Lyon  wrote:
> Since you're talking about documentation, which is a part of python,
> don't you think you should be discussing it on python-dev ?

Yea, them's be a friendly bunch to noob ideas ;). Hey i got a better
idea, lets go to the IRS and see if we can persuade them to stop
taxing us...

> That's where discussions about the documentation should be held.
> haha - I'm just curious to see how long it will for them to
> shut the discussion down.

Yea, probably not long at all, of course not before the troll calling,
bulling, defamation of character, etc, has lost it's fun.

> Before you do that, you should clearly work out in your own mind
> how you think things need to improve. It's not good enough just
> saying this or that is bad without having specific ideas on what
> needs to change.

see links that xah posted, and there is more he did not post.

> Good luck fellow sinner and blasphemer...
> How dare you suggest that things could be improved...

how dare YOU suggest they NOT be improved!!!


From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 11:21:03 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 08:21:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: <86e09602-7eb1-4397-a77f-fb1e3c5b34b9@k26g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 10, 10:58?am, Scott David Daniels 
wrote:

>?The string rules reflect C's rules, and I see little
> excuse for trying to change them now.

No they don't. Or at least not C++'s rules. C++ behaves exactly as I
should like.

(Or at least g++ does. Or rather *almost* as I would like, as by
default it generates a warning for "foo\zbar", while I think that an
error would be somewhat preferable.)

But you're right, it's too late to change this now.

|>ouglas



From samwyse at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 11:21:49 2009
From: samwyse at gmail.com (samwyse)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 08:21:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: setting Referer for urllib.urlretrieve
References: <1668f798-0a73-47a5-9f87-34312109c67c@v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<028ed082$0$20617$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <73d9e384-30a0-4927-ac73-722d11c06d15@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 9, 9:41?am, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
> On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 06:13:38 -0700,samwysewrote:
> > Here's what I have so far:
>
> > import urllib
>
> > class AppURLopener(urllib.FancyURLopener):
> > ? ? version = "App/1.7"
> > ? ? referrer = None
> > ? ? def __init__(self, *args):
> > ? ? ? ? urllib.FancyURLopener.__init__(self, *args)
> > ? ? ? ? if self.referrer:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? addheader('Referer', self.referrer)
>
> > urllib._urlopener = AppURLopener()
>
> > Unfortunately, the 'Referer' header potentially varies for each url that
> > I retrieve, and the way the module is written, I can't change the calls
> > to __init__ or open. The best idea I've had is to assign a new value to
> > my class variable just before calling urllib.urlretrieve(), but that
> > just seems ugly. ?Any ideas? ?Thanks.
>
> [Aside: an int variable is an int. A str variable is a str. A list
> variable is a list. A class variable is a class. You probably mean a
> class attribute, not a variable. If other languages want to call it a
> variable, or a sausage, that's their problem.]
>
> If you're prepared for a bit of extra work, you could take over all the
> URL handling instead of relying on automatic openers. This will give you
> much finer control, but it will also require more effort on your part.
> The basic idea is, instead of installing openers, and then ask the urllib
> module to handle the connection, you handle the connection yourself:
>
> make a Request object using urllib2.Request
> make an Opener object using urllib2.build_opener
> call opener.open(request) to connect to the server
> deal with the connection (retry, fail or read)
>
> Essentially, you use the Request object instead of a URL, and you would
> add the appropriate referer header to the Request object.
>
> Another approach, perhaps a more minimal change than the above, would be
> something like this:
>
> # untested
> class AppURLopener(urllib.FancyURLopener):
> ? ? version = "App/1.7"
> ? ? def __init__(self, *args):
> ? ? ? ? urllib.FancyURLopener.__init__(self, *args)
> ? ? def add_referrer(self, url=None):
> ? ? ? ? if url:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? addheader('Referer', url)
>
> urllib._urlopener = AppURLopener()
> urllib._urlopener.add_referrer("http://example.com/")

Thanks for the ideas.  I'd briefly considered something similar to
your first idea, implementing my own version of urlretrieve to accept
a Request object, but it does seem like a good bit of work.  Maybe
over Labor Day.  :)

The second idea is pretty much what I'm going to go with for now.  The
program that I'm writing is almost a clone of wget, but it fixes some
personal dislikes with the way recursive retrievals are done.  (Or
maybe I just don't understand wget's full array of options well
enough.)  This means that my referrer changes as I bounce up and down
the hierarchy, which makes this less convenient.  Still, it does seem
more convenient that re-writing the module from scratch.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Aug 10 11:25:20 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:25:20 +0100
Subject: Processes not exiting
In-Reply-To: <049e9160-5a92-47b9-9ac6-8e01573d5689@p15g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: <6cfb2f39-c6d6-4d2a-882c-18f21addf206@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>		<61d7fcbb-17f8-4314-90b6-0a6db22abd6d@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>	<01b55c48-3252-4cec-8781-98487a9071ae@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
		
	<996e50f5-c126-4ac2-ae8d-458d22a26ee1@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4b564f49-712c-408a-b8bd-9cff5af4a4fe@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<049e9160-5a92-47b9-9ac6-8e01573d5689@p15g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A803BE0.3090902@mrabarnett.plus.com>

ma3mju wrote:
> On 7 Aug, 16:02, MRAB  wrote:
>> ma3mju wrote:
>>> On 3 Aug, 09:36, ma3mju  wrote:
>>>> On 2 Aug, 21:49, Piet van Oostrum  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> MRAB  (M) wrote:
>>>>>> M> I wonder whether one of the workers is raising an exception, perhaps due
>>>>>> M> to lack of memory, when there are large number of jobs to process.
>>>>> But that wouldn't prevent the join. And you would probably get an
>>>>> exception traceback printed.
>>>>> I wonder if something fishy is happening in the multiprocessing
>>>>> infrastructure. Or maybe the Fortran code goes wrong because it has no
>>>>> protection against buffer overruns and similar problems, I think.
>>>>> --
>>>>> Piet van Oostrum 
>>>>> URL:http://pietvanoostrum.com[PGP8DAE142BE17999C4]
>>>>> Private email: p... at vanoostrum.org
>>>> I don't think it's a memory problem, the reason for the hard and easy
>>>> queue is because for larger examples it uses far more RAM. If I run
>>>> all of workers with harder problems I do begin to run out of RAM and
>>>> end up spending all my time switching in and out of swap so I limit
>>>> the number of harder problems I run at the same time. I've watched it
>>>> run to the end (a very boring couple of hours) and it stays out of my
>>>> swap space and everything appears to be staying in RAM. Just hangs
>>>> after all "poison" has been printed for each process.
>>>> The other thing is that I get the message "here" telling me I broke
>>>> out of the loop after seeing the poison pill in the process and I get
>>>> all the things queued listed as output surely if I were to run out of
>>>> memory I wouldn't expect all of the jobs to be listed as output.
>>>> I have a serial script that works fine so I know individually for each
>>>> example the fortran code works.
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Matt
>>> Any ideas for a solution?
>> A workaround is to do them in small batches.
>>
>> You could put each job in a queue with a flag to say whether it's hard
>> or easy, then:
>>
>>      while have more jobs:
>>          move up to BATCH_SIZE jobs into worker queues
>>          create and start workers
>>          wait for workers to finish
>>          discard workers
> 
> Yeah, I was hoping for something with a bit more finesse. In the end I
> used pool instead with a callback function and that has solved the
> problem. I did today find this snippet;
> 
> Joining processes that use queues
> 
>     Bear in mind that a process that has put items in a queue will
> wait before terminating until all the buffered items are fed by the
> ?feeder? thread to the underlying pipe. (The child process can call
> the Queue.cancel_join_thread() method of the queue to avoid this
> behaviour.)
> 
>     This means that whenever you use a queue you need to make sure
> that all items which have been put on the queue will eventually be
> removed before the process is joined. Otherwise you cannot be sure
> that processes which have put items on the queue will terminate.
> Remember also that non-daemonic processes will be automatically be
> joined.
> 
> 
> I don't know (not a computer scientist) but could it have been the
> pipe getting full?
> 
> In case anyway else is effected by this I've attached the new code to
> see the changes I made to fix it.
> 
[snip]
Maybe the reason is this:

Threads share an address space, so putting data into a queue simply
involves putting a reference there, but processes don't share an address
space, so a sender must continue to exist until the data itself has been
copied into the pipe that connects the processes. This pipe has a
limited capacity.

In your code you were waiting for the easy workers to terminate and you
weren't reading from the queue, and maybe, therefore, the pipe either,
so with a large number of jobs the pipe was becoming full.

In summary: the worker didn't terminate because the pipe was full; the
pipe was full because you weren't reading the results; you weren't
reading the results because the worker hadn't terminated.


From bieffe62 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 11:36:52 2009
From: bieffe62 at gmail.com (Francesco Bochicchio)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 08:36:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: variable & scoping question.
References: 
	<7earmtF2f4tvnU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 10, 5:12?pm, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
> Cornelius Keller wrote:
> > Hi,
>
> > I'm a quite fresh python programmer, (6 Month python experience).
> > Today I found something I absolotly don'nt understand:
>
> > given the following function:
>
> > def test_effect(class_id=None,class_ids=[]):
> > ? ? if class_id is not None:
> > ? ? ? ? if class_id not in class_ids:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? class_ids.append(int(class_id))
>
> > ? ? print class_ids
>
> > I observe that the class_ids array is growing when it is called with
> > different class id's.
>
> > I expected class_ids to be [] if the keyword argument is not set, but
> > it seems to beahve like a static variable if not set.
>
> http://effbot.org/zone/default-values.htm
>
> Diez

Maybe on the first page of python.org there should be a 'python
gotchas' link to a page listing these few
non-intuituive peculiarities of our beloved snake ... same goes for
the official python tutorial ...

Ciao
-----
FB



From cornelius.keller at googlemail.com  Mon Aug 10 11:46:17 2009
From: cornelius.keller at googlemail.com (Cornelius Keller)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 08:46:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: variable & scoping question.
References: 
	<7earmtF2f4tvnU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <93c50fc3-2cf9-4fc6-9919-cde7cfd273e6@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>

On 10 Aug., 17:12, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
> Cornelius Keller wrote:
[snip]
>
> http://effbot.org/zone/default-values.htm
>
> Diez

Ok thank you.
I' understand now why.
I still think this is very confusing, because default values don't
behave like most people would expect without reading the docs.

- Cornelius


From MatzeGuentert at gmx.de  Mon Aug 10 11:55:06 2009
From: MatzeGuentert at gmx.de (Matthias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=FCntert?=)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 17:55:06 +0200
Subject: M2Crypto: How to generate subjectKeyIdentifier /
	authorityKeyIdentifier
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: <1249919706.3267.239.camel@celsius>

Now I have this patch applied to the M2Crypto SVN branch 




From piet at cs.uu.nl  Mon Aug 10 11:58:27 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 17:58:27 +0200
Subject: Problem Regarding Handling of Unicode string
References: <9ac0e194-9e25-468a-9807-957ef3142dd3@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

>>>>> joy99  (j) wrote:

>j> Dear Group,
>j> I am using Python26 on WindowsXP with service pack2. My GUI is IDLE.
>j> I am using Hindi resources and get nice output like:
>j> ??
>j> where I can use all the re functions and other functions without doing
>j> any transliteration,etc.
>j> I was trying to use Bengali but it is giving me output like:
>j> '\xef\xbb\xbf\xe0\xa6\x85\xe0\xa6\xa8\xe0\xa7\x87\xe0\xa6\x95'
>j> I wanted to see Bengali output as
>j> ????
>j> and I like to use all functions including re.
>j> If any one can help me on that.
>j> Best Regards,
>j> Subhabrata.

Make sure your stdout (in case you use print) has utf-8 encoding. This
might be problematic on Windows, however.

>>> print '\xef\xbb\xbf\xe0\xa6\x85\xe0\xa6\xa8\xe0\xa7\x87\xe0\xa6\x95'
????

Or if you write to a file, open it with utf-8 encoding.

I take utf-8 because in general this is the preferred encoding for
non-ASCII text. It could be that Bengali has a different preferred encoding.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From davea at ieee.org  Mon Aug 10 12:03:19 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 12:03:19 -0400
Subject: Client/Server based on SocketServer and Windows
In-Reply-To: <979ad93c-0257-4add-8fb7-b56e253e3fb7@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
References: 	
	<979ad93c-0257-4add-8fb7-b56e253e3fb7@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A8044C7.1080203@ieee.org>

Kiki wrote:
> Thank you Dennis
>
> I'm using 2 differents editor, which may be the cause of such a mess
> in the indentation.
>
> I must admitt that I lazily rely on those (not so bad indeed) editors.
>
> "If indentation whas bad they would have tell me"
>
> Too bad am i
>
> Won't post misindeted code anymore.
>
>   
No problem using multiple editors.  But you need to configure each one 
to *never* put tabs in the file (it should use spaces exclusively).  If 
you can't do that in one of the editors, then use the other editor 
exclusively.

Other useful but not mandatory features -
    - when tab is pressed, it should indent using spaces, to a multiple 
of 4 columns.
    - by default, indent a new line the same as the previous, or even 
based on the previous plus some syntax rules.
    - make tabs and/or spaces visible, so you can tell if the file has a 
mixture.

DaveA
  


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 12:09:17 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:09:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: www.python.org website is down?
References: 
	
	<1d952f0b-9552-48ef-ad2e-a7b8e06ea8eb@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <6f54e63f-9f98-46a6-aff2-7b93a78b683b@e18g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 10, 9:13?am, MRAB  wrote:
> r wrote:
> > On Aug 8, 8:48 am, MRAB  wrote:
> > ...(snip)
> >> Bothwww.python.organdsvn.python.org are down. ?They're hosted on
> >> the same machine, and it seems to have run into disk problems and
> >> hasn't rebooted even after power-cycling. ?Thomas Wouters will be
> >> visiting the machine physically tomorrow to try to diagnose the
> >> problem.
>
> > Oh stop lying MRAB, everybody knows Guido hosts Python.org from his
> > attic on an old Linux box :-)
>
> That was a quote from A.M. Kuchling.
>
> It's actually hosted on a matchbox-sized multi-core multi-terabyte
> wifi-enabled Linux machine that Guido brought back from 2050.
> Unfortunately, the dog ate it, so he's had to go and buy another one!
> :-)

i just hope he gets one that has supported wifi drivers available! :-)


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Mon Aug 10 12:13:34 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:13:34 -0700
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 			<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>		<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>		<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro	ups.com>
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>			<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4A80472E.4090108@stoneleaf.us>

Kee Nethery wrote:
> As someone trying to learn the language I want to say that the tone on  
> this list towards people who are trying to learn Python  feels like it  
> has become anti-newbies.
> 
> Learning a new language is difficult enough without seeing other  
> newbies getting shamed for not knowing everything there is to know  
> about Python before asking their questions.
> 
> For example, the guy who was looking for Python sample code for the  
> Google Map API, calling him a troll was harsh. Suggesting he broach  the 
> question to Google was a reasonable answer. By the same token, his  
> asking this list about the missing Python examples seems reasonable  
> also. Seems to me that people on a Python list might have some  
> background knowledge or even samples of the Google Python code that  was 
> no longer on the Google web site.
> 
> There seems to be a general consensus among the newbies that other  
> languages have a user contributions resource tied to the main official  
> docs to allow newbies to teach each other what they have learned. The  
> desire is for python.org to have the same kind of support resource so  
> that us newbies can self support each other.
> 
> Kee Nethery

As someone who is (hopefully!) leaving newbieness I can say I have had 
no problem with the helpfullness of this list.  I will also say that 
before I ever posted any questions I had devoured Dive Into Python and 
How To Think Like a Computer Scientist Using Python (both excellent), 
and I try to put as much detail into my questions as I can so nobody has 
to guess what I'm trying to do.

As someone who relies heavily on the docs I will also say that the idea 
of giving the ability to modify the official documentation to somebody 
who is /learning/ the language is, quite frankly, terrifying.  I have no 
issues with a seperate system, some of which have been suggested, but 
good reference documentation is crucial.  If you find examples lacking, 
there are plenty of web-sites, or even (dare I say it?) actual hard-copy 
books!  ;)  My bookshelf currently has Learning Python, Programming 
Python, Python Cookbook, Python Programming on Win32, and Regular 
Expressions.  All great books, and not too pricey if you can get them used.

My $0.02.

~Ethan~


From dorzey at googlemail.com  Mon Aug 10 12:15:07 2009
From: dorzey at googlemail.com (dorzey)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:15:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Problem when fetching page using urllib2.urlopen
References: <2f1086ba-26ba-42a8-b5de-27581fa853e3@12g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<0579ebc0-2542-4f96-af3e-9861ad646b13@d9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

"geturl - this returns the real URL of the page fetched. This is
useful because urlopen (or the opener object used) may have followed a
redirect. The URL of the page fetched may not be the same as the URL
requested." from http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/articles/urllib2.shtml#info-and-geturl

It might be worth checking that you are actually getting the page you
want; I seem to remember that semicolons need to be encoded, similar
to '&'.

Dorzey

On Aug 10, 12:43?pm, jitu  wrote:
> On Aug 10, 4:39?pm, jitu  wrote:
>
> > Hi,
>
> > A html page ?contains 'anchor' elements with 'href' attribute ?having
> > a semicolon ?in the url , while fetching the page using
> > urllib2.urlopen, all such href's ?containing ?'semicolons' are
> > truncated.
>
> > For example the hrefhttp://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide-6901959-pune_restaurants-i;_ylt...
> > get truncated tohttp://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide-6901959-pune_restaurants-i
>
> > The page I am talking about can be fetched fromhttp://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide-485468-pune_india_vacations-i;_...
>
> > Thanks a Lot
> > Regards
> > jitu
>
> Hi
>
> ? ?Sorry, the question what I wanted to ask was, whether is this the
> correct behaviour or a bug ?
>
> Thanks A Lot.
> Regards
> jitu



From MatzeGuentert at gmx.de  Mon Aug 10 12:19:17 2009
From: MatzeGuentert at gmx.de (Matthias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=FCntert?=)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:19:17 +0000
Subject: M2Crypto: How to generate subjectKeyIdentifier /
	authorityKeyIdentifier
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: <1249921157.3267.263.camel@celsius>

Hello once again

Now I have the extension-patch [0] applied to the M2Crypto SVN branch
(revision 704). Creating a root and an subRoot CA certificate now works
great including the SKID/AKID extensions. 

I am also able to verify those created certificates using:

$ openssl verify -CAfile rootCA.crt rootCA.crt 
rootCA.crt: OK

$ openssl verify -CAfile rootCA.crt subRootCA.crt 
subRootCA.crt: OK

But having a closer look onto the generated key ID's shows that there is
either something wrong in the way I am adding the subjectKeyIdentifier
extension or the way the hash gets calculated in the background. 

This are the hashes:

__rootCA__			
SKID F4:EF:64:5F:7A:A2:2A:14:14:F9:AE:6E:DB:04:78:0A:8C:6E:02:9F -: A
--> OKAY
AKID F4:EF:64:5F:7A:A2:2A:14:14:F9:AE:6E:DB:04:78:0A:8C:6E:02:9F -: A
--> OKAY

__subRootCA (signed by rootCA)__ 	
SKID DA:39:A3:EE:5E:6B:4B:0D:32:55:BF:EF:95:60:18:90:AF:D8:07:09 -: B
--> OKAY
AKID F4:EF:64:5F:7A:A2:2A:14:14:F9:AE:6E:DB:04:78:0A:8C:6E:02:9F -: A
--> OKAY

__client (signed by rootCA)__
SKID DA:39:A3:EE:5E:6B:4B:0D:32:55:BF:EF:95:60:18:90:AF:D8:07:09 -: B
--> NOT OKAY, should be different from RootCA
AKID F4:EF:64:5F:7A:A2:2A:14:14:F9:AE:6E:DB:04:78:0A:8C:6E:02:9F -: A
--> OKAY

__client (signed by subRootCA)__
SKID DA:39:A3:EE:5E:6B:4B:0D:32:55:BF:EF:95:60:18:90:AF:D8:07:09 -: B
--> NOT OKAY, should be different from subRootCA
AKID DA:39:A3:EE:5E:6B:4B:0D:32:55:BF:EF:95:60:18:90:AF:D8:07:09 -: B
--> OKAY

I really would be happy if someone could have a look at my code [1] as
this extensions are important for verifying the trust chain. Please let
me know if there is anything I can do with my limited knowledge about
OpenSSL to get this working... 

Regards, Matthias 

[0] https://bugzilla.osafoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=5106
[1] http://code.google.com/p/webca/source/browse/trunk/src/ca.py




From gert.cuykens at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 12:41:19 2009
From: gert.cuykens at gmail.com (gert)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:41:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: resume upload wsgi script
References: <36993141-188c-4b13-8819-e60516d27437@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<7e80jlF2etv0kU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	<7e85i3F2fdc1eU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<9cd75067-8839-44dd-9b42-4ffb15488b66@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
	<7e8ildF2f1hcpU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<49e41062-9e0d-4c5e-beca-edb02d3ce6e8@e34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<7ea4lpF2dvr5cU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 10, 10:39?am, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
> > 250KB :)
>
> So why do you bother?
>
> > Its just HTTP1.1 has everything for making ftp like file transfers
> > possible.
> > When I write it to a file then I am back at square one because I still
> > need to load it completely to get it into a blob.
>
> Well, the blob is nothing but datat in the file-system. If you are
> *really* concerned about that, then don't use the db, but use the
> filesystem, appending to the file until it's finished - and storing a
> reference to it to the DB. We do that as well, because otherwise the db
> will become unmanagable anyway (dumping, backups).
>

I also hate debugging sql that contains blob data. So if using files
how do you clean the http post stuff?
(b+r'.*?Content-Type: application/octet-stream\r\n\r\n(.*?)\r
\n--'+b,file,DOTALL)
using as litlle memory as possible ?
I can not use PUT upload only because flash does not support PUT.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Aug 10 12:42:50 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 17:42:50 +0100
Subject: variable & scoping question.
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<7earmtF2f4tvnU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
Message-ID: <4A804E0A.2090202@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Francesco Bochicchio wrote:
> On Aug 10, 5:12 pm, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
>> Cornelius Keller wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> I'm a quite fresh python programmer, (6 Month python experience).
>>> Today I found something I absolotly don'nt understand:
>>> given the following function:
>>> def test_effect(class_id=None,class_ids=[]):
>>>     if class_id is not None:
>>>         if class_id not in class_ids:
>>>             class_ids.append(int(class_id))
>>>     print class_ids
>>> I observe that the class_ids array is growing when it is called with
>>> different class id's.
>>> I expected class_ids to be [] if the keyword argument is not set, but
>>> it seems to beahve like a static variable if not set.
>> http://effbot.org/zone/default-values.htm
>>
>> Diez
> 
> Maybe on the first page of python.org there should be a 'python
> gotchas' link to a page listing these few
> non-intuituive peculiarities of our beloved snake ... same goes for
> the official python tutorial ...
> 
Should they be called 'snake bites'? Well, pythons are constrictors, not
biters, but if Python is being non-intuitive... :-)


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Mon Aug 10 12:55:46 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:55:46 -0700
Subject: variable & scoping question.
In-Reply-To: <93c50fc3-2cf9-4fc6-9919-cde7cfd273e6@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
References: 	<7earmtF2f4tvnU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<93c50fc3-2cf9-4fc6-9919-cde7cfd273e6@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A805112.8020308@stoneleaf.us>

Cornelius Keller wrote:
[snip]

> I still think this is very confusing, because default values don't
> behave like most people would expect without reading the docs.
> 
> - Cornelius

Why would you expect to become a good programmer of _any_ language 
without reading its docs?

~Ethan~


From deets at nospam.web.de  Mon Aug 10 13:11:12 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 19:11:12 +0200
Subject: Problem when fetching page using urllib2.urlopen
References: <2f1086ba-26ba-42a8-b5de-27581fa853e3@12g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<0579ebc0-2542-4f96-af3e-9861ad646b13@d9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <7eb2lgF2ec7u9U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

dorzey wrote:

> "geturl - this returns the real URL of the page fetched. This is
> useful because urlopen (or the opener object used) may have followed a
> redirect. The URL of the page fetched may not be the same as the URL
> requested." from
> http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/articles/urllib2.shtml#info-and-geturl
> 
> It might be worth checking that you are actually getting the page you
> want; I seem to remember that semicolons need to be encoded, similar
> to '&'.

You remember wrong.

http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2396.html

See Section 3.3, path-components.

Diez


From abecedarian314159 at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 10 13:19:31 2009
From: abecedarian314159 at yahoo.com (William)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 10:19:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: reloading the module imported as 'from ... import ...'
In-Reply-To: <4A7FB4AF.7060107@ggmail.com>
References: <4A7F976D.7090600@ggmail.com>
	
	<4A7FB4AF.7060107@ggmail.com>
Message-ID: <208933.60826.qm@web110606.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

What about using the reimport library?

http://code.google.com/p/reimport/

Cheers,
William



________________________________
From: AlF 
To: python-list at python.org
Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 1:48:31 AM
Subject: Re: reloading the module imported as 'from ... import ...'

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 20:43:41 -0700, AlF wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> what is the best way to reload the module imported using 'from ...
>> import ...'
> 
> 
> Have you tried "from ... import ..." again?
> 

I have not because of an assumption that "import" imports the module just once. In fact this still works that way:

here is a terminal 1:

$ cat > a.py
a=1
$ cat > a.py
a=2
$


and terminal 2:

>>> from a import a
>>> a
1
>>> a
1
>>> from a import a
>>> a
1
>>>

In spite of changing a.py in fly, the imported a is still 1


-- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



      
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From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 13:28:25 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 10:28:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: With or without leading underscore...
References: <5un5l6-fvn.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <4d6719e4-217a-4921-bd26-228fd4944eb7@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 10, 7:37?am, Ulrich Eckhardt  wrote:
> ...that is the question!
>
> I have a module which exports a type. It also exports a function that
> returns instances of that type. Now, the reason for my question is that
> while users will directly use instances of the type, they will not create
> instances of the type themselves.
>
> So, the type is a part of the public API, but its constructor is not. Should
> I mark the type as private (with a leading underscore) or not?


I would not use the underscore.

If the initializer is private you might consider dispensing with
__init__ (have it raise TypeError), and initialize it from a "private"
method or classmethod, or even directly from the factory function.
And if you're wondering how the hell you're going to create the object
of type A when you've disabled __init__, see the example classmethod
below.


class A(object):
    def __init__(self,*args,**kwargs):
        raise TypeError('Type not callable; use factory function
instead')

    @classmethod
    def _create_object(cls,initial_value):
        self = object.__new__(cls) # avoid __init__
        self.value = initial_value



Carl Banks


From dorzey at googlemail.com  Mon Aug 10 13:28:51 2009
From: dorzey at googlemail.com (dorzey)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 10:28:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Problem when fetching page using urllib2.urlopen
References: <2f1086ba-26ba-42a8-b5de-27581fa853e3@12g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<0579ebc0-2542-4f96-af3e-9861ad646b13@d9g2000prh.googlegroups.com> 
	 
	<7eb2lgF2ec7u9U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <474e7cc0-f563-4e62-ab9e-61b16451a9bf@q14g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>

On 10 Aug, 18:11, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
> dorzey wrote:
> > "geturl - this returns the real URL of the page fetched. This is
> > useful because urlopen (or the opener object used) may have followed a
> > redirect. The URL of the page fetched may not be the same as the URL
> > requested." from
> >http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/articles/urllib2.shtml#info-and-ge...
>
> > It might be worth checking that you are actually getting the page you
> > want; I seem to remember that semicolons need to be encoded, similar
> > to '&'.
>
> You remember wrong.
>
> http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2396.html
>
> See Section 3.3, path-components.
>
> Diez

My memory has been known to let me down on occasions ;) Thank you for
correcting my mistake.


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 13:29:27 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 10:29:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 10, 4:41?am, MRAB  wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> > On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 17:56:55 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:
>
> [snip]
> >> My point of view is that
> >> every language has *some* warts; Python just has a bit fewer than most.
> >> It would have been nice, I should think, if this wart had been "fixed"
> >> in Python 3, as I do consider it to be a minor wart.
>
> > And if anyone had cared enough to raise it a couple of years back, it
> > possibly might have been.
>
> My preference would've been that a backslash followed by A-Z, a-z, or
> 0-9 is special, but a backslash followed by any other character is just
> the character, except for backslash followed by a newline, which
> suppresses the newline.

That would be reasonable; it'd match the behavior of regexps.


Carl Banks



From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 13:43:08 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 10:43:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: <0702d438-253e-4c8c-a26f-9247d824010a@e4g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 10, 1:37?am, Steven D'Aprano
 wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 00:37:33 -0700, Carl Banks wrote:
> > On Aug 9, 11:10?pm, Steven D'Aprano
> >  wrote:
> >> On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 18:34:14 -0700, Carl Banks wrote:
> >> >> Why should a backslash in a string literal be an error?
>
> >> > Because the behavior of \ in a string is context-dependent, which
> >> > means a reader can't know if \ is a literal character or escape
> >> > character without knowing the context, and it means an innocuous
> >> > change in context can cause a rather significant change in \.
>
> >> *Any* change in context is significant with escapes.
>
> >> "this \nhas two lines"
>
> >> If you change the \n to a \t you get a significant difference. If you
> >> change the \n to a \y you get a significant difference. Why is the
> >> first one acceptable but the second not?
>
> > Because when you change \n to \t, you've haven't changed the meaning of
> > the \ character;
>
> I assume you mean the \ character in the literal, not the (non-existent)
> \ character in the string.
>
> > but when you change \n to \y, you have, and you did so
> > without even touching the backslash.
>
> Not at all.
>
> '\n' maps to the string chr(10).
> '\y' maps to the string chr(92) + chr(121).
>
> In both cases the backslash in the literal have the same meaning: grab
> the next token (usually a single character, but not always), look it up
> in a mapping somewhere, and insert the result in the string object being
> built.

That is a ridiculous rationalization.  Nobody sees "\y" in a string
and thinks "it's an escape sequence that returns the bytes '\y'".


[snip rest, because an argument in favor inconsistent, context-
dependent behavior doesn't need any further refutation than to point
out that it is an argument in favor of inconsistent, context-dependent
behavior]


Carl Banks


From rickbking at comcast.net  Mon Aug 10 13:44:17 2009
From: rickbking at comcast.net (Rick King)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 13:44:17 -0400
Subject: how to use "exec" stmt to get input from user 
Message-ID: <4A805C71.4010809@comcast.net>

I have a cmd.py-derived program (with a wxPython GUI) and want to 
execute python statements for lines that are not my own special commands.

So basically it's either:

    def do_somecommand(self,arg):
        ...

or

    def default(self,arg):
        exec arg in globals(),self.cmdlocals

(where cmdlocals is a my local dictionary)

in default() I'd like to be able to execute any python statement 
including something like

    "x = raw_input('>')"

when I do this though it goes to the command window and so any user of 
the program would be confused, which also means I have to have a command 
window.

If I add this:

    self.stdin = self.edt_console_input   (where self.edt_console_input 
is a wxPython text control)

it just gets an EOF right away.

Is there any way to do what I want to do? This might be better posted on 
the wxpython list.

Thanks for any help!

Rick King
Southfield MI




From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 13:52:05 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 10:52:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	
	
	
	
	<86e09602-7eb1-4397-a77f-fb1e3c5b34b9@k26g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <274a2d6a-a154-4d22-a093-c1c29457f71f@z34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

I wrote:

> But you're right, it's too late to change this now.

P.S. But if it weren't too late, I think that your idea to have "\s"
be the escape sequence for a backslash instead of "\\" might be a good
one.

|>ouglas


From starsareblueandfaraway at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 13:53:13 2009
From: starsareblueandfaraway at gmail.com (Roy Hyunjin Han)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 13:53:13 -0400
Subject: Python documentation servers
Message-ID: <6a5569ec0908101053x53e8070escae5e6535325afb@mail.gmail.com>

Are there issues with the python documentation servers?
http://docs.python.org/
The site has been really slow to respond all weekend.


From 71david at libero.it  Mon Aug 10 14:00:06 2009
From: 71david at libero.it (David)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:00:06 +0200
Subject: wxpython question
References: <11f24035-bd42-4df8-879a-2e2558ee45ee@d23g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Il Mon, 10 Aug 2009 07:55:42 -0700 (PDT), azrael ha scritto:

> Is there maybe a method bounded to the class SpinCtrl() that could
> hide the widget. One that is maybe also implemented in any other
> control.

AFAIK, any widget can be made invisibile calling the .Show(False) method of
the container sizer.
http://docs.wxwidgets.org/stable/wx_wxsizer.html#wxsizershow

David


From dullrich at sprynet.com  Mon Aug 10 14:10:14 2009
From: dullrich at sprynet.com (David C Ullrich)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 13:10:14 -0500
Subject: how to use "exec" stmt to get input from user
References: 
Message-ID: 

What you're trying to do and what's not working isn't 
entirely clear to me.

But if I had a wxPython application and I wanted to
execute user input (note the _if_) I'd just pop up a window
(I forget how "ShowModal" is spelled in wx right now)
with a text box and an Execute button and a Cancel
button - if the user hits the Execute button I'd
attempt to execute what he'd typed in the box.

There are reasons you want to be very careful about
this...

On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 13:44:17 -0400, Rick King wrote:

> I have a cmd.py-derived program (with a wxPython GUI) and want to
> execute python statements for lines that are not my own special
> commands.
> 
> So basically it's either:
> 
>     def do_somecommand(self,arg):
>         ...
> 
> or
> 
>     def default(self,arg):
>         exec arg in globals(),self.cmdlocals
> 
> (where cmdlocals is a my local dictionary)
> 
> in default() I'd like to be able to execute any python statement
> including something like
> 
>     "x = raw_input('>')"
> 
> when I do this though it goes to the command window and so any user of
> the program would be confused, which also means I have to have a command
> window.
> 
> If I add this:
> 
>     self.stdin = self.edt_console_input   (where self.edt_console_input
> is a wxPython text control)
> 
> it just gets an EOF right away.
> 
> Is there any way to do what I want to do? This might be better posted on
> the wxpython list.
> 
> Thanks for any help!
> 
> Rick King
> Southfield MI



From rt8396 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 14:35:39 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 11:35:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: pybotwar-0.5
References:  
	<3e9c5fcd-4047-4edd-b2ec-d892c77e3a69@f33g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 9, 9:46?pm, Mensanator  wrote:
> On Aug 9, 3:26?pm, Lee Harr  wrote:
>
> > pybotwar is a fun and educational game where players
> > create computer programs to control simulated robots
> > to compete in a battle arena.
>
> >http://pybotwar.googlecode.com/
>
> Why is the doc folder empty?
>
> Shouldn't you supply some hint on how the games works
> and at least a rudimentary guide to robot design?
>
> What version to you expect that will be in? 1.0? 10.0?
>
> Could you inform us when you have something worth looking
> at and not before so we don't have to waste our time?

What a bombastically stupid thing to say even for you "Menstrual
cycle". Sure, there is no documentation but maybe the creator meant
for this module to be used only by experienced Python programmers and
not script kiddies like yourself who need a four page tut just to code
up a hello world.py. If you are anything more than an amateur the
source code should be all the documentation you need to use this
module. If not, get on with your pathetic life!

Next time before you open your mouth, try to use those two brain cells
you have left up there and put together a reasonable and responsible
response that is more than just a cowardly put down. Now run along
little spam bot, i am sure one of the other thousands of groups you
post to can't wait for your triumphant return!

r "slayer of the galactic-ly stupid!"


From jcd at sdf.lonestar.org  Mon Aug 10 14:47:19 2009
From: jcd at sdf.lonestar.org (J. Cliff Dyer)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 14:47:19 -0400
Subject: variable & scoping question.
In-Reply-To: <93c50fc3-2cf9-4fc6-9919-cde7cfd273e6@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<7earmtF2f4tvnU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<93c50fc3-2cf9-4fc6-9919-cde7cfd273e6@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1249930039.17682.5.camel@aalcdl07>

On Mon, 2009-08-10 at 08:46 -0700, Cornelius Keller wrote:
> On 10 Aug., 17:12, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
> > Cornelius Keller wrote:
> [snip]
> >
> > http://effbot.org/zone/default-values.htm
> >
> > Diez
> 
> Ok thank you.
> I' understand now why.
> I still think this is very confusing, because default values don't
> behave like most people would expect without reading the docs.
> 
> - Cornelius

You are correct.  This is confusing at first blush.  The important thing
to remember is: *don't do that.*  Learn the pythonic workaround of using
None in your parameters whenever you want a default empty list, and
don't let it bother you too much.  Overall, python is a remarkably well
designed language.  This is one of the relatively rare warts that crept
in because it enables a broader cleanliness of design.

Cheers,
Cliff




From rt8396 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 15:10:08 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 12:10:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python documentation servers
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 10, 12:53?pm, Roy Hyunjin Han
 wrote:
> Are there issues with the python documentation servers?http://docs.python.org/
> The site has been really slow to respond all weekend.

try this thread
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/052368a71f2a8ad2/929bd74bd203c6e8?hl=en&lnk=raot8

PS Just ignore the OT humor near the bottom ;)


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Aug 10 15:11:53 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:11:53 +0100
Subject: pybotwar-0.5
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<3e9c5fcd-4047-4edd-b2ec-d892c77e3a69@f33g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

[snip]
> r "slayer of the galactic-ly stupid!"
Can I assume from this that you intend killing yourself, on the grounds 
that some 10 days ago you couldn't successfully use a windows compiled 
help file?
-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From piet at cs.uu.nl  Mon Aug 10 15:36:55 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 21:36:55 +0200
Subject: Problem when fetching page using urllib2.urlopen
References: <2f1086ba-26ba-42a8-b5de-27581fa853e3@12g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

>>>>> jitu  (j) wrote:

>j> Hi,
>j> A html page  contains 'anchor' elements with 'href' attribute  having
>j> a semicolon  in the url , while fetching the page using
>j> urllib2.urlopen, all such href's  containing  'semicolons' are
>j> truncated.


>j> For example the href http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide-6901959-pune_restaurants-i;_ylt=AlWSqpkpqhICp1lMgChtJkCdGWoL
>j> get truncated to http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide-6901959-pune_restaurants-i

>j> The page I am talking about can be fetched from
>j> http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide-485468-pune_india_vacations-i;_ylc=X3oDMTFka28zOGNuBF9TAzI3NjY2NzkEX3MDOTY5NTUzMjUEc2VjA3NzcC1kZXN0BHNsawN0aXRsZQ--

It's not python that causes this. It is the server that sends you the
URLs without these parameters (that's what they are).

To get them you have to tell the server that you are a respectable
browser. E.g.

import urllib2

url = 'http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide-6901959-pune_restaurants-i;_ylt=AlWSqpkpqhICp1lMgChtJkCdGWoL'

url = 'http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide-485468-pune_india_vacations-i;_ylc=X3oDMTFka28zOGNuBF9TAzI3NjY2NzkEX3MDOTY5NTUzMjUEc2VjA3NzcC1kZXN0BHNsawN0aXRsZQ--'

hdrs = {'User-Agent': 'Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.0.13) Gecko/2009073021 Firefox/3.0.13',
       'Accept': 'image/*'}

request = urllib2.Request(url = url, headers = hdrs)
page = urllib2.urlopen(request).read()

-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Mon Aug 10 15:38:39 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 21:38:39 +0200
Subject: www.python.org website is down?
References: 
	
	<1d952f0b-9552-48ef-ad2e-a7b8e06ea8eb@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

>>>>> MRAB  (M) wrote:

>M> r wrote:
>>> On Aug 8, 8:48 am, MRAB  wrote:
>>> ...(snip)
>>>> Bothwww.python.organd svn.python.org are down.  They're hosted on
>>>> the same machine, and it seems to have run into disk problems and
>>>> hasn't rebooted even after power-cycling.  Thomas Wouters will be
>>>> visiting the machine physically tomorrow to try to diagnose the
>>>> problem.
>>> 
>>> Oh stop lying MRAB, everybody knows Guido hosts Python.org from his
>>> attic on an old Linux box :-)

>M> That was a quote from A.M. Kuchling.

>M> It's actually hosted on a matchbox-sized multi-core multi-terabyte
>M> wifi-enabled Linux machine that Guido brought back from 2050.
>M> Unfortunately, the dog ate it, so he's had to go and buy another one!

The 2050 models can run on the internal heat of a dog !!
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 16:56:57 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 13:56:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	
	
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	 
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro ups.com> 
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	 
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <081115fd-8014-4e6b-8d7b-76d6fcf6a59d@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 10, 11:13?am, Ethan Furman  wrote:
(snip)
> As someone who relies heavily on the docs I will also say that the idea
> of giving the ability to modify the official documentation to somebody
> who is /learning/ the language is, quite frankly, terrifying.
(snip)

Ethan,
I think what you and a few others seem to miss is ... Of course nobody
wants Joe-Noob writing the Python docs -- thats lunacy, would you give
your 12 year old the keys to a shiny new corvette? -- No! What people
are asking for is the ability for a noobs input on the official docs,
and for that input to be taken seriously. Sure some of the suggestions
will be nothing more than "helpful ignoramuses" with unhelpful
suggestions as some have said, but the input channels need to be
there. Currently Python dev seems to be more output than input,
however i could be wrong? We some real I/O going on here.

Also the Python tut is full of fluff (sorry Guido) and it contributes
to late learning of the language. Luckily however Python has many
users who really love the language and have taken the time to write
beautiful tutorials that start at various levels of entry. Read xah's
take on the official tutorial, it's spot on baby!

A little note for tutorial writers:
==================================

Dear Expert,
Whilst writing any tutorial on any subject matter please remember, you
may be an expert, but mostly *non-experts* will be reading your
material... pssft, this may come as a surprise, but tutorials are
meant for *NON-EXPERTS*!

Please refrain from stroking your own ego by obstrufcation of the very
ideas you wish to convey to these influential minds. Sure exposing
your huge intelligence to the world may give you warm-fuzzies-in-your-
tummy, but believe me your poor students will be rendered as helpless
as Paris Hilton at a "panties required" spelling bee.

Please try, and i know this is a lot to ask, to use the most simple
explanation to convey the point -- and *only* the point at hand! Take
for example the introduction of functions. You could go with your gut
instinct, "shoot from the hip" and pop off something like this that
prints a Fibonacci series up to n...

def fib(n):
    a, b = 0, 1
    while b < n:
        print b,
        a, b = b, a+b

>>> fib(2000)
1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610 987 1597

And all you would have accomplished was to blow holes thru the
students mind! Now like the next guy, i love calculating series of
numbers all day, but this is a piss poor example of functions for the
new student, or anybody for that matter!  While your student is
racking his brain trying to figure out what "a" and "b" stand for,
much less n, and not to mention what the heck a "Fibonacci" series is
in the first place (Google can help though) , he (the student) has
forgotten that this example is simply how to write and call a
function. A much better example would be the following...

def add(x, y):
    print x+y

>>> add(1, 2)
3

WOW,  with that small piece of code you have just transported three
main principals of a function in a very simple and strait forward way
smack-dab into the cerebral cortex of the student, and your fingers
did not even break a sweat!

 1. function names should describe exactly what they do
 2. functions take arguments
 3. functions do something with those arguments(like mini programs!)

You could followup with this fine example that extents on the
first...

def add(x, y=2)
    return x+y

>>> add(1,2)

>>> print add(1, 2)
3
>>> print add(1)
3
>>> print add(100, 5.5)
100.5
>>> print add()
error...


However Ethan (and Co.),  not everybody who downloads Python the first
time knows about this. Also the Python website is filled to the brim
with a hodgepodge of "links-here" "links-there", "links-every-freaking-
where" (are we getting paid by the link people?) causing most noobs
brain to start blowing chunks just while tring to find a good
alternative to the official tut!

Really, it's bloat on a proportion that only elephant sized bloat
wares like M$, M$-Office, Adobe-PDF, and the like, can hold a candle
to. Python really needs and enema, and thats no joke!


From mensanator at aol.com  Mon Aug 10 17:01:58 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 14:01:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: pybotwar-0.5
References:  
	<3e9c5fcd-4047-4edd-b2ec-d892c77e3a69@f33g2000vbm.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 10, 1:35?pm, r  wrote:
>
> Sure, there is no documentation

http://www.mensanator.com/mensanator/PythonTurtle/paper.htm



From rickbking at comcast.net  Mon Aug 10 17:36:27 2009
From: rickbking at comcast.net (Rick King)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 17:36:27 -0400
Subject: how to use "exec" stmt to get input from user
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <4A8092DB.3090703@comcast.net>

Thanks for your comment.

The purpose of the application is to automate the manipulation of large 
numbers of files. For automation I want to be able to have scripts that 
I can use for various purposes.

On input, cmd.py handles calling "do_...." methods for known commands; 
for the rest I want to "exec" the lines with my own dictionary. This 
allows me to use python statements, so I can do things like 
concatenating variables to form directory names, and so on. I'd like to 
be able to use any python statement, including "x=raw_input('>')", but 
this currently brings everything to a halt.

One thing this app does is execute processes using wxPythons wx.Process 
object and wx.Execute function. wxPython makes it easy to redirect stdin 
and stdout. I'm trying to do a similar thing for individual python 
statements. I'm not sure that makes sense.

I hope that's clear.

Rick


David C Ullrich wrote:
> What you're trying to do and what's not working isn't 
> entirely clear to me.
>
> But if I had a wxPython application and I wanted to
> execute user input (note the _if_) I'd just pop up a window
> (I forget how "ShowModal" is spelled in wx right now)
> with a text box and an Execute button and a Cancel
> button - if the user hits the Execute button I'd
> attempt to execute what he'd typed in the box.
>
> There are reasons you want to be very careful about
> this...
>
> On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 13:44:17 -0400, Rick King wrote:
>
>   
>> I have a cmd.py-derived program (with a wxPython GUI) and want to
>> execute python statements for lines that are not my own special
>> commands.
>>
>> So basically it's either:
>>
>>     def do_somecommand(self,arg):
>>         ...
>>
>> or
>>
>>     def default(self,arg):
>>         exec arg in globals(),self.cmdlocals
>>
>> (where cmdlocals is a my local dictionary)
>>
>> in default() I'd like to be able to execute any python statement
>> including something like
>>
>>     "x = raw_input('>')"
>>
>> when I do this though it goes to the command window and so any user of
>> the program would be confused, which also means I have to have a command
>> window.
>>
>> If I add this:
>>
>>     self.stdin = self.edt_console_input   (where self.edt_console_input
>> is a wxPython text control)
>>
>> it just gets an EOF right away.
>>
>> Is there any way to do what I want to do? This might be better posted on
>> the wxpython list.
>>
>> Thanks for any help!
>>
>> Rick King
>> Southfield MI
>>     
>
>   
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From longbotham at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 17:38:08 2009
From: longbotham at gmail.com (Nathan)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 14:38:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: numpy array merge
Message-ID: <427654ff-5455-4198-bc86-d810ef3fafd6@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

Is there an easy way to merge two numpy arrays with different rank
sizes (terminology?).  I want to make a single array by concatenating
two arrays along a given direction and filling the excess cells with a
dummy variable.  numpy concatenate works well as long as the two
arrays have the same dimension, but I want to do this on two array
with a matching dimension size.  An example:

import numpy as np
a = np.array([[1,2,3],[4,5,6]])
b = np.array([[1,2],[3,4],[5,6]])
np.concatenate((a,a),axis=1)  #This works fine, but isn't what I need.
Out:  array([[1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3],
       [4, 5, 6, 4, 5, 6]])
np.concatenate((a,b),axis=1)  #This doesn't work, but this is what I
need.

I want to fill the third row of array "a" with a dummy variable (99999
or NaN) and concatenate with "b" to make:
[1,2,3,1,2]
[4,5,6,4,5]
[99999,99999,99999,5,6]

This just seems like it would be relatively common.  So I thought I'd
check if I'm missing something before I go write the logic.  Thanks!


From mail at johannes-janssen.de  Mon Aug 10 17:51:59 2009
From: mail at johannes-janssen.de (Johannes Janssen)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 23:51:59 +0200
Subject: How to find out in which module an instance of a class is created?
In-Reply-To: <4A7F6016.2060408@cheimes.de>
References: <4A7F4874.8030008@johannes-janssen.de>
	<4A7F6016.2060408@cheimes.de>
Message-ID: <4A80967F.9030604@johannes-janssen.de>

Christian Heimes schrieb:
> Johannes Janssen wrote:
>>  > class A(object):
>>  >     def __init__(self, mod=__name__):
>>  >         self.mod = mod
>>
>> .... won't work. In this case mod would always be "foo".
>
> You have to inspect the stack in order to get the module of the 
> caller. The implementation of warnings.warn() gives you some examples 
> how to get the module name.
>
> Christian
>
Thanks for the quick and very helpful reply. Basically just copying from 
warnings.warn(), I came up with this:

import sys

class A(object):
    def __init__(self, mod=None):
        if mod is None:
            self.mod = sys._getframe(1).f_globals['__name__']
        else:
            self.mod = mod

In warnings.warn() they used try around sys._getframe(1). As far as I 
understand what is done in warnings, there it is not sure what object 
caused the warning and therefore it is not sure whether you can or 
cannot use sys._getframe(1). Though in my case it should be quite clear. 
Can I be sure that my code will always work?

Johannes


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Aug 10 18:02:00 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 10 Aug 2009 15:02:00 -0700
Subject: help with threads
References: <5a744bd6-6b9a-4f46-97c1-bb7fd65b8f4c@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

In article <5a744bd6-6b9a-4f46-97c1-bb7fd65b8f4c at l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>,
Michael Mossey   wrote:
>
>I have a simple application that needs one thread to manage networking
>in addition to the main "thread" that does the main job. It's not
>working right. I know hardly anything about threads, so I was hoping
>someone could point me in the right direction to research this.

You might also consider the multiprocessing module.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"...string iteration isn't about treating strings as sequences of strings, 
it's about treating strings as sequences of characters.  The fact that
characters are also strings is the reason we have problems, but characters 
are strings for other good reasons."  --Aahz


From patx44 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 18:12:43 2009
From: patx44 at gmail.com (patx)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 18:12:43 -0400
Subject: fastPATX (a new and simple web browser)
Message-ID: <699f51260908101512n42fa053bj41646f816f8c3f9b@mail.gmail.com>

There was a new release of fastPATX today. However the code and the program
itself will not be available to the public untill Tuesday the 11th. This is
due to me not having the proper tools I need to publish it (I am not at my
"main comp."). This is a bit of an over statement it will probably be
published near midnight Florida time. There are many different places you
can get fastPATX. I will cover them below:
http://bitbucket.org/patx/fastpatx/
http://patx44.appspot.com/
http://www.hawkee.com/snippet/6429/

More places may be out there (mirrors) but I do not know, they are NOT
official but I do 100% support them, and encourage many to mirror fastPATX.

fastPATX official wiki - http://bitbucket.org/patx/fastpatx

JJTComputing have given a great review of fastPATX and it has been linked to
on many site (Tuxmachines). I strongly wish that if you use fastPATX to blog
or tweet (include an @h_erd ???) about, even if you did not like it! Also if
you do like it please follow the project on bitbucket.org >>
http://bitbucket.org/patx/fastpatx/follow/

If you have any questions or suggestions please email me.
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From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 10 18:17:24 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:17:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<3611ca55-79a6-4336-9041-07d0893789f7@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <0447e8a2-508d-45b2-8d15-da0cc2a56b5f@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>

From: Steven D'Aprano  wrote:

> On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 00:32:30 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:

> > In C++, if I know that the code I'm looking at compiles,
> > then I never need worry that I've misinterpreted what a
> > string literal means.

> If you don't know what your string literals are, you don't
> know what your program does. You can't expect the compiler
> to save you from semantic errors. Adding escape codes into
> the string literal doesn't change this basic truth.

I grow weary of these semantic debates. The bottom line is
that C++'s strategy here catches bugs early on that Python's
approach doesn't. It does so at no additional cost.

>From a purely practical point of view, why would any
language not want to adopt a zero-cost approach to catching
bugs, even if they are relatively rare, as early as
possible?

(Other than the reason that adopting it *now* is sadly too
late.)

Furthermore, Python's strategy here is SPECIFICALLY
DESIGNED, according to the reference manual to catch bugs.
I.e., from the original posting on this issue:

     Unlike Standard C, all unrecognized escape sequences
     are left in the string unchanged, i.e., the backslash
     is left in the string. (This behavior is useful when
     debugging: if an escape sequence is mistyped, the
     resulting output is more easily recognized as broken.)

If this "feature" is designed to catch bugs, why be
half-assed about it? Especially since there seems to be
little valid use case for allowing programmers to be lazy in
their typing here.

> The compiler can't save you from typing 1234 instead of
> 11234, or 31.45 instead of 3.145, or "My darling Ho"
> instead of "My darling Jo", so why do you expect it to
> save you from typing "abc\d" instead of "abc\\d"?

Because in the former cases it can't catch the the bug, and
in the latter case, it can.

> Perhaps it can catch *some* errors of that type, but only
> at the cost of extra effort required to defeat the
> compiler (forcing the programmer to type \\d to prevent
> the compiler complaining about \d). I don't think the
> benefit is worth the cost. You and your friend do. Who is
> to say you're right?

Well, Bjarne Stroustrup, for one.

All of these are value judgments, of course, but I truly
doubt that anyone would have been bothered if Python from
day one had behaved the way that C++ does. Additionally, I
expect that if Python had always behaved the way that C++
does, and then today someone came along and proposed the
behavior that Python currently implements, so that the
programmer could sometimes get away with typing a bit less,
such a person would be chided for not understanding the Zen
of Python.

> > You don't have to go running for the manual every time
> > you see code with backslashes, where the upshot might be
> > that the programmer was merely saving themselves some
> > typing.

> Why do you care if there are "funny characters"?

Because, of course, "funny characters" often have
interesting consequences when output. Furthermore, their
consequences aren't always immediately obvious from looking
at the source code, unless you are intimately familiar with
the function of the special characters in question.

For instance, sometimes in the wrong combination, they wedge
your xterm. Etc.

I'm surprised that this needs to be spelled out.

> In C++, if you see an escape you don't recognize, do you
> care?

Yes, of course I do. If I need to know what the program
does.

> Do you go running for the manual? If the answer is No,
> then why do it in Python?

The answer is that I do in both cases.

> No. \z *is* a legal escape sequence, it just happens to map to \z.

> If you stop thinking of \z as an illegal escape sequence
> that Python refuses to raise an error for, the problem
> goes away. It's a legal escape sequence that maps to
> backslash + z.

(1) I already used that argument on my friend, and he wasn't
buying it. (Personally, I find the argument technically
valid, but commonsensically invalid. It's a language-lawyer
kind of argument, rather than one that appeals to any notion
of real aesthetics.)

(2) That argument disagrees with the Python reference
manual, which explicitly states that "unrecognized escape
sequences are left in the string unchanged", and that the
purpose for doing so is because it "is useful when
debugging".

> > "\x" is not a legal escape sequence. Shouldn't it also
> > get left as "\\x"?
>
> No, because it actually is an illegal escape sequence.

What makes it "illegal". As far as I can tell, it's just
another "unrecognized escape sequence". JavaScript treats it
that way. Are you going to be the one to tell all the
JavaScript programmers that their language can't tell a
legal escape sequence from an illegal one?

> > Well, I think he's more annoyed that if Python is going
> > to be so helpful as to put in the missing "\" for you in
> > "foo\zbar", then it should put in the missing "\" for
> > you in "\". He considers this to be an inconsistency.
>
> (1) There is no missing \ in "foo\zbar".
>
> (2) The problem with "\" isn't a missing backslash, but a
> missing end- quote.

Says who? All of this really depends on your point of
view. The whole morass goes away completely if one adopts
C++'s approach here.

> Python isn't DWIMing here. The rules are simple and straightforward,
> there's no mind-reading or guessing required.

It may not be a complex form of DWIMing, but it's still
DWIMing a bit. Python is figuring that if I typed "\z", then
either I must have really meant to type "\\z", or that I
want to see the backslash when I'm debugging because I made
a mistake, or that I'm just too lazy to type "\\z".

> Is it "a form of DWIMing" to consider 1.234e1 and 12.34
> synonymous?

That's a very different issue, as (1) there are very
significant use cases for both kinds of numerical
representations, and (2) there's often only one obvious way
way that the number should be entered, depending on the
coding situation.

> What about 86 and 0x44? Is that DWIMing?

See previous comment.

> I'm sure both you and your friend are excellent
> programmers, but you're tossing around DWIM as a
> meaningless term of opprobrium without any apparent
> understand of what DWIM actually is.

I don't know if my friend even knows the term DWIM, other
than me paraphrasing him, but I certainly understand all
about the term. It comes from InterLisp. When DWIM was
enabled, your program would run until it hit an error, and
for certain kinds of errors, it would wait a few seconds for
the user to notice the error message, and if the user didn't
tell the program to stop, it would try to figure out what
the user most likely meant, and then continue running using
the computer-generated "fix".

I.e., more or less like continuing on in the face of what
the Python Reference manual refers to as an "unrecognized
escape sequence".

|>ouglas


From 7of77 at web.de  Mon Aug 10 18:24:21 2009
From: 7of77 at web.de (bernd)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:24:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: illegal geld machen , schnell geld verdienen in , schnell geld im 
	internet , geld 2.0 geld verdienen im web 2.0 ,
	novoline american poker 
	online spielen , sofort geld im internet , mehr geld verdienen ,
	roulette geld machen ,
References: <692f7f6b-2235-429f-be42-c3d04cdcb134@r37g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<7350a4df-0ba2-4cb4-ab39-f7fda00bc729@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On 25 Jul., 00:50, entr... at web.de wrote:
> On 7 Jun., 19:48, swirler... at googlemail.com wrote:
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>
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From david.lyon at preisshare.net  Mon Aug 10 19:56:21 2009
From: david.lyon at preisshare.net (David Lyon)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 19:56:21 -0400
Subject: wxpython question
In-Reply-To: <11f24035-bd42-4df8-879a-2e2558ee45ee@d23g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
References: <11f24035-bd42-4df8-879a-2e2558ee45ee@d23g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 


is there a method/property called Show/Shown ?

On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 07:55:42 -0700 (PDT), azrael 
wrote:
> Is there maybe a method bounded to the class SpinCtrl() that could
> hide the widget. One that is maybe also implemented in any other
> control.
> 
> self.spcKvadDo = wx.SpinCtrl(id=-1, initial=0, max=1000000, min=0,
> name='spcKvadDo', parent=self.pnlFilteri, pos=wx.Point(10, 10),
> size=wx.Size(118, 21), style=wx.SP_ARROW_KEYS)
> 
> self.spcKvadOd.XXX()
> 
> I tried it with the SetTransparent() method but it did not work. Has
> anyone any Idea?


From david.lyon at preisshare.net  Mon Aug 10 20:05:00 2009
From: david.lyon at preisshare.net (David Lyon)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:05:00 -0400
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire
	=?UTF-8?Q?writers=3F?=
In-Reply-To: <4A80472E.4090108@stoneleaf.us>
References: 			<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>		<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>		<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro	ups.com>
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>			<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	
	<4A80472E.4090108@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <0985e0fe54bf41fa3736cd6697d42bf4@preisshare.net>

On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:13:34 -0700, Ethan Furman 
wrote:
> As someone who relies heavily on the docs I will also say that the idea 
> of giving the ability to modify the official documentation to somebody 
> who is /learning/ the language is, quite frankly, terrifying.  

What is more terrifying is the way feedback from newbies is handled.

Your statement implies that the only way feedback can be handled is
to throw the keys down in discust and walk away. That's primative
behaviour. And misleading, because that isn't going to happen.

> My bookshelf currently has Learning Python, Programming 
> Python, Python Cookbook, Python Programming on Win32, and Regular 
> Expressions.  All great books, and not too pricey if you can get them
used.

So, what you're advocating is let things stay how they are...

Ignore feedback... tell people to freak off...




From http  Mon Aug 10 21:28:47 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 10 Aug 2009 18:28:47 -0700
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	
	
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro
	ups.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<081115fd-8014-4e6b-8d7b-76d6fcf6a59d@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xr5vj9m0g.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

r  writes:
> Whilst writing any tutorial on any subject matter please remember, you
> may be an expert, but mostly *non-experts* will be reading your
> material... pssft, this may come as a surprise, but tutorials are
> meant for *NON-EXPERTS*!

I think the Python tutorial is aimed at users who are newbies to
Python but not newbies to programming.  Writing a tutorial for total
newbies is a completely different problem, that would result in a much
different document that's less useful to the existing tutorial's
intended audience.


From pacificik at warnell.uga.edu  Mon Aug 10 22:11:04 2009
From: pacificik at warnell.uga.edu (Krishna Pacifici)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 22:11:04 -0400
Subject: dictionary help
Message-ID: <4A809AF80200008C000149EC@redhorse.forestry.uga.edu>

Hi,
kind of a newbie here, but I have two questions that are probably pretty simple.

1.  I need to get rid of duplicate values that are associated with different keys in a dictionary.  For example I have the following code.
s={}
s[0]=[10,2,3]
 s[10]=[22,23,24]
 s[20]=[45,5]
s[30]=[2,4]
s[40]=[6,7,8]

Now I want to be able to loop through the primary keys and get rid of duplicates (both in keys and values) so that I would have either a new dictionary or the same dictionary but with the following values:

s[0]=[3]
 s[10]=[22,23,24]
 s[20]=[45,5]
s[30]=[2,4]
s[40]=[6,7,8]

It doesn't matter which value gets removed as long as there is only one remaining, so in this example it doesn't matter that 2 got removed from s[0] or from s[30] as long as there is only one 2 in the dictionary.

2.  I need to be able to loop over the values in the dictionary when there are multiple values assigned to each key like above and assign new values to those values.  Taking the above example I would want to assign a new value so that when you called s[0] it would equal [3,4] say if 4 was the new value.  I think this should be as simple as adding a value, but I kept on having difficulty.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you very much,
Krishna

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Mon Aug 10 22:15:03 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 23:15:03 -0300
Subject: Python configuration question when python scripts are executed
	using Appweb as web server.
References: 
	
	
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

En Mon, 10 Aug 2009 11:48:31 -0300, IronyOfLife 
escribi?:

>> Why different results in IIS and appweb? [...]
> This is fairly easy to explain. When I configured IIS to execute
> python scripts, as per the documentation I pass two command line
> arguments. Appweb works this way. It opens up a new command process
> and in the function parameter for environment it sets only SYSTEMROOT.
> It does not set the PATH variable (A BUG IN APPWEB which I have passed
> on to them. They have not commented or provided any work around) for
> Windows platform.

Perhaps you could configure appweb to call a .bat file like this, instead
of directly invoking python?

set path=%path%;other;directories;added
c:\path\to\python.exe %*

(this is slightly off topic now...)

> You were mentioning about .local file or manifest file to specify the
> path. I used the python's build command to build the wrapper. Is there
> a way to mention in setup.py to generate the .manifest file? I wold
> very much appreciate if you can help me with that.
>
> I will also look for answers for how to modify setup.py to generate
> manifest file or .local file etc..

The last part is easy: foo.exe.local is just an empty file in the same
directory as foo.exe - when it exists, DLLs are searched first on the
directory containing the application [1]

With manifest files I can't help. I suggest you create a new thread with
that question, perhaps in the distutils-SIG mailing list [2]

[1] http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms682600(VS.85).aspx
[2] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/distutils-sig

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From jcd at sdf.lonestar.org  Mon Aug 10 23:07:49 2009
From: jcd at sdf.lonestar.org (J. Cliff Dyer)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 23:07:49 -0400
Subject: dictionary help
In-Reply-To: <4A809AF80200008C000149EC@redhorse.forestry.uga.edu>
References: <4A809AF80200008C000149EC@redhorse.forestry.uga.edu>
Message-ID: <1249960069.5675.8.camel@webb>

On Mon, 2009-08-10 at 22:11 -0400, Krishna Pacifici wrote:
> Hi,
> kind of a newbie here, but I have two questions that are probably
> pretty simple.
> 
> 1.  I need to get rid of duplicate values that are associated with
> different keys in a dictionary.  For example I have the following
> code.
> s={}
> s[0]=[10,2,3]
> s[10]=[22,23,24]
> s[20]=[45,5]
> s[30]=[2,4]
> s[40]=[6,7,8]
> 
> Now I want to be able to loop through the primary keys and get rid of
> duplicates (both in keys and values) so that I would have either a new
> dictionary or the same dictionary but with the following values:
> 
> s[0]=[3]
> s[10]=[22,23,24]
> s[20]=[45,5]
> s[30]=[2,4]
> s[40]=[6,7,8]
> 
> It doesn't matter which value gets removed as long as there is only
> one remaining, so in this example it doesn't matter that 2 got removed
> from s[0] or from s[30] as long as there is only one 2 in the
> dictionary.
> 
So if the number is a key, you want to keep the key, and delete all
matching values, and if the number is not a key, you want to keep one
(any one) instance of that number?  I'm not sure that what you are
looking for is best represented by a dict.  You might want to consider
creating your own class and overriding __getitem__.


> 2.  I need to be able to loop over the values in the dictionary when
> there are multiple values assigned to each key like above and assign
> new values to those values.  Taking the above example I would want to
> assign a new value so that when you called s[0] it would equal [3,4]
> say if 4 was the new value.  I think this should be as simple as
> adding a value, but I kept on having difficulty.
> 
Here you might want to either use the append() method on the lists of
each entry.

> Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
> 
I'm not sure what you are doing maps cleanly to currently existing
datastructures, which means that there might not be a quick shortcut for
you.  Hammer out the specs of what you want your class to be able to do,
and what the API will be for performing each of those functions.  Then
you should be able to begin implementing it, or at least come up with
some more specific questions.



> Thank you very much,
> Krishna

Cheers,
Cliff




From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Aug 10 23:27:59 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 11 Aug 2009 03:27:59 GMT
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	
	
	
	
	<86e09602-7eb1-4397-a77f-fb1e3c5b34b9@k26g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 08:21:03 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:

> But you're right, it's too late to change this now.

Not really. There is a procedure for making non-backwards compatible 
changes. If you care deeply enough about this, you could agitate for 
Python 3.2 to raise a PendingDepreciation warning for "unexpected" escape 
sequences like \z, Python 3.3 to raise a Depreciation warning, and Python 
3.4 to treat it as an error.

It may even be possible to skip the PendingDepreciation warning and go 
straight for Depreciation warning in 3.2.


-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Aug 10 23:29:20 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 11 Aug 2009 03:29:20 GMT
Subject: With or without leading underscore...
References: <5un5l6-fvn.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:37:25 +0200, Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:

> ...that is the question!
> 
> I have a module which exports a type. It also exports a function that
> returns instances of that type. Now, the reason for my question is that
> while users will directly use instances of the type, they will not
> create instances of the type themselves.
> 
> So, the type is a part of the public API, but its constructor is not.
> Should I mark the type as private (with a leading underscore) or not?

My opinion is that if you have to ask the question "Should this class be 
private?", then the answer is No.

Only make objects private if you have specific reasons for doing so. I 
know this goes against the advice given by other languages (namely, make 
everything private unless you need it to be public) but Python encourages 
openness and transparency.



-- 
Steven


From hjtoi-better-remove-before-reply at comcast.net  Tue Aug 11 00:25:21 2009
From: hjtoi-better-remove-before-reply at comcast.net (Heikki Toivonen)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 21:25:21 -0700
Subject: ANN: M2Crypto 0.20
Message-ID: 

I am please to announce the M2Crypto 0.20 release, which was in
development for over nine months. Over 30 bugs fixed by more than ten
people. Download links and bug filing instructions on the homepage at
http://chandlerproject.org/Projects/MeTooCrypto.

M2Crypto is the most complete Python wrapper for OpenSSL featuring RSA,
DSA, DH, HMACs, message digests, symmetric ciphers (including AES); SSL
functionality to implement clients and servers; HTTPS extensions to
Python's httplib, urllib, and xmlrpclib; unforgeable HMAC'ing
AuthCookies for web session management; FTP/TLS client and server;
S/MIME; ZServerSSL: A HTTPS server for Zope and ZSmime: An S/MIME
messenger for Zope. Smartcards supported with the Engine interface.

Changelog:

- Deprecated M2Crypto.PGP subpackage since nobody seems to be using it
nor is it being maintained (if you do use it, please let me know)
- Added fedora_setup.sh to help work around differences on Fedora Core
-based distributions (RedHat, CentOS, ...); thanks to Miloslav Trmac
- Added X509.load_request_bio and load_request_string, by Hartmut Goebel
and Pavel Shramov
- Added alias X509.Request.set_subject for set_subject_name to match
X509.X509, by Pavel Shramov
- OBJ_* wrappers did not work properly with OpenSSL 0.9.8a and earlier,
fix by Pavel Shramov
- Added ASN1_UTCTIME.get_datetime and set_datetime, by Pavel Shramov
- Fixed obj_obj2txt, which returned nonsense, fix by Barney Stratford
- m2urllib did not close sockets properly, fix by Miloslav Trmac
- Allow SSL peer certificate to have subjectAltName without dNSName and
use commonName for hostname check, fix by Miloslav Trmac
- threading_locking_callback did not block on a lock when the lock
  was held by another thread, by Miloslav Trmac
- Allow more blocking OpenSSL functions to run without GIL, by Miloslav
Trmac
- Fixed httpslib to send only the path+query+fragment part of the URL
when using CONNECT proxy, by James Bowes
- SSLServer.__init__ now takes optional bind_and_activate parameter and
  initializes by calling SocketServer.BaseServer.__init__, which
  are Python 2.6 compatibility fixes, by Christian
- ftpslib now works with Python 2.6, by Theodore A. Roth
- httpslib.ProxyHTTPSConnection needs to cast port into integer,
  by John M. Schanck
- Added support for RSASSA-PSS signing and verifying, by Chris Collis
- Added support for disabling padding when using RSA encryption,
  by Chris Collis
- ASN1_INTEGERs can now be larger than fits in an int, for example to
support X509 certificates with large serial numbers, patch by Mikhail
Vorozhtsov and testcase by Barry G.
- Reverted a change done in 0.17 to m2urllib2 which changed urls to
include host when it should stay as it was
- httpslib no longer uses urllib; instead it uses urlparse for url parsing
- SMIME.text_crlf and text_crlf_bio were always raising TypeError; fixed
- EVP.load_key and load_key_bio fixed to raise EVP.EVPError and
BIO.BIOError instead of str (str exceptions not allowed in Python 2.6
and later)
- SSL.Session.load_session fixed to raise SSL.SSLError instead of str
- SMIME.load_pkcs7, load_pkcs7_bio, smime_load_pkcs7,
smime_load_pkcs7_bio, text_crlf, text_crlf_bio fixed to raise
BIO.BIOError, SMIME.PKCS7_Error and SMIME.SMIME_Error as appropriate
instead of str
- Added FIPS mode to unit tests, and used FIPS-compliant key sizes in
other tests, by Miloslav Trmac. Note that tests run much slower because
of this!
- Unit tests cover 80% of the code

-- 
  Heikki Toivonen - http://heikkitoivonen.net


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 00:33:03 2009
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 00:33:03 -0400
Subject: numpy array merge
In-Reply-To: <427654ff-5455-4198-bc86-d810ef3fafd6@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <427654ff-5455-4198-bc86-d810ef3fafd6@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-10 17:38, Nathan wrote:
> Is there an easy way to merge two numpy arrays with different rank
> sizes (terminology?).

You will want to ask numpy questions on the numpy mailing list.

   http://www.scipy.org/Mailing_Lists

I believe that "shape" is the term you are looking for.

> I want to make a single array by concatenating
> two arrays along a given direction and filling the excess cells with a
> dummy variable.  numpy concatenate works well as long as the two
> arrays have the same dimension, but I want to do this on two array
> with a matching dimension size.  An example:
>
> import numpy as np
> a = np.array([[1,2,3],[4,5,6]])
> b = np.array([[1,2],[3,4],[5,6]])
> np.concatenate((a,a),axis=1)  #This works fine, but isn't what I need.
> Out:  array([[1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3],
>         [4, 5, 6, 4, 5, 6]])
> np.concatenate((a,b),axis=1)  #This doesn't work, but this is what I
> need.
>
> I want to fill the third row of array "a" with a dummy variable (99999
> or NaN) and concatenate with "b" to make:
> [1,2,3,1,2]
> [4,5,6,4,5]
> [99999,99999,99999,5,6]
>
> This just seems like it would be relatively common.  So I thought I'd
> check if I'm missing something before I go write the logic.  Thanks!

I don't believe there is anything that does what you want out-of-box. You will 
probably want to determine the appropriate shape for the final array, use 
empty() to create it, use .fill(nan) (or whatever) to supply the default value, 
then assign the input arrays into the appropriate locations.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From nair.jitendra at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 01:15:31 2009
From: nair.jitendra at gmail.com (jitu)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 22:15:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Problem when fetching page using urllib2.urlopen
References: <2f1086ba-26ba-42a8-b5de-27581fa853e3@12g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <1002806e-cab7-4e9b-80e4-ab46dff20cdf@b25g2000prb.googlegroups.com>


Yes Piet you were right this works. But seems does not work on google
app engine, since  it appends it own agent info as seen below

'User-Agent': 'Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US;
rv:1.9.0.13) Gecko/2009073021 Firefox/3.0.13 AppEngine-Google;
(+http://code.google.com/appengine)'

Any way Thanks . Good to know about the User-Agent field.

Jitu


On Aug 11, 12:36?am, Piet van Oostrum  wrote:
> >>>>> jitu  (j) wrote:
> >j> Hi,
> >j> A html page ?contains 'anchor' elements with 'href' attribute ?having
> >j> a semicolon ?in the url , while fetching the page using
> >j> urllib2.urlopen, all such href's ?containing ?'semicolons' are
> >j> truncated.
> >j> For example the hrefhttp://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide-6901959-pune_restaurants-i;_ylt...
> >j> get truncated tohttp://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide-6901959-pune_restaurants-i
> >j> The page I am talking about can be fetched from
> >j>http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide-485468-pune_india_vacations-i;_...
>
> It's not python that causes this. It is the server that sends you the
> URLs without these parameters (that's what they are).
>
> To get them you have to tell the server that you are a respectable
> browser. E.g.
>
> import urllib2
>
> url = 'http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide-6901959-pune_restaurants-i;_ylt...
>
> url = 'http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide-485468-pune_india_vacations-i;_...
>
> hdrs = {'User-Agent': 'Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.0.13) Gecko/2009073021 Firefox/3.0.13',
> ? ? ? ?'Accept': 'image/*'}
>
> request = urllib2.Request(url = url, headers = hdrs)
> page = urllib2.urlopen(request).read()
>
> --
> Piet van Oostrum 
> URL:http://pietvanoostrum.com[PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
> Private email: p... at vanoostrum.org



From arshakrishnamtech at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 01:29:29 2009
From: arshakrishnamtech at gmail.com (ArshaKrishna)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 22:29:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Nltk with python
Message-ID: <82c9f923-1098-4b7e-8f9d-9504c1a8962c@12g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

How can I resolve scope ambiguity using nltk toolkit with python


From cmalmqui at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 01:54:38 2009
From: cmalmqui at gmail.com (cmalmqui)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 22:54:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ElementTree - Howto access text within XML tag element...
Message-ID: <1ad8dac1-8fff-493a-a197-d847e7b6a761@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I am writing on a small XML parser and are currently stuck as I am not
able to get the whole element name in ElementTree.

Please see the below example where "print root[0][0]" returns
""

Is there a way to get hold of the "Running" string in the tag using
elementTree?


    
      2009-07-10T14:48:00Z
      
      .........

For those of you that know how to program XML I have another
question:
I am currently "hardcoding" my XML parser using brackets, is this a
good approach or should I build it using a "search on tag" approach.

Thank you for any answers!


From terry.yinzhe at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 01:59:13 2009
From: terry.yinzhe at gmail.com (Terry)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 22:59:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to pickle a lambda function?
Message-ID: <37c55108-083f-4d60-b8a3-9b2b10833ac3@r18g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I'm trying to implement something like:

remote_map(fun, list)

to execute the function on a remove machine. But the problem is I
cannot pickle a lambda function and send it to the remote machine.

Is there any possible way to pickle (or other method) any functions
including lambda?

br, Terry


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Aug 11 02:47:32 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 11 Aug 2009 06:47:32 GMT
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire	writers?
References: 
	
	
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro
	ups.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	
	<4A80472E.4090108@stoneleaf.us>
	
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:05:00 -0400, David Lyon wrote:

> So, what you're advocating is let things stay how they are...

If it's not broken, don't fix it.


> Ignore feedback... tell people to freak off...

Only useless feedback.


-- 
Steven




From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Aug 11 02:51:28 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 11 Aug 2009 06:51:28 GMT
Subject: variable & scoping question.
References: 
	<7earmtF2f4tvnU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<93c50fc3-2cf9-4fc6-9919-cde7cfd273e6@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 08:46:17 -0700, Cornelius Keller wrote:

> On 10 Aug., 17:12, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
>> Cornelius Keller wrote:
> [snip]
>>
>> http://effbot.org/zone/default-values.htm
>>
>> Diez
> 
> Ok thank you.
> I' understand now why.
> I still think this is very confusing, because default values don't
> behave like most people would expect without reading the docs.


Really? How do you expect the default value to behave in this example?

>>> import time
>>> def test(x=time.time()):
...     print x
...
>>>
>>> test()
1249972984.33
>>> time.sleep(30)
>>> test()
1249972984.33

You get the same default object each time you call the function, NOT a 
fresh one created. I'm sure I'd be terribly confused if Python re-
evaluated the default value each time I called the function.

There's no difference between this and the case x=[], except that lists 
are mutable and floats aren't. You get the same default list each time, 
it just has different stuff in it. The alternative would be to get a 
different list each time, and that would require re-evaluating the 
default each time the function was called, which is horrible.




-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Aug 11 03:07:13 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 11 Aug 2009 07:07:13 GMT
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<3611ca55-79a6-4336-9041-07d0893789f7@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
	<0447e8a2-508d-45b2-8d15-da0cc2a56b5f@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:17:24 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:

> From: Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
> 
>> On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 00:32:30 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:
> 
>> > In C++, if I know that the code I'm looking at compiles, then I never
>> > need worry that I've misinterpreted what a string literal means.
> 
>> If you don't know what your string literals are, you don't know what
>> your program does. You can't expect the compiler to save you from
>> semantic errors. Adding escape codes into the string literal doesn't
>> change this basic truth.
> 
> I grow weary of these semantic debates. The bottom line is that C++'s
> strategy here catches bugs early on that Python's approach doesn't. It
> does so at no additional cost.
>
> From a purely practical point of view, why would any language not want
> to adopt a zero-cost approach to catching bugs, even if they are
> relatively rare, as early as possible?

Because the cost isn't zero. Needing to write \\ in a string literal when 
you want \ is a cost, and having to read \\ in source code and mentally 
translate that to \ is also a cost. By all means argue that it's a cost 
that is worth paying, but please stop pretending that it's not a cost.

Having to remember that \n is a "special" escape and \y isn't is also a 
cost, but that's a cost you pay in C++ too, if you want your code to 
compile.


By the way, you've stated repeatedly that \y will compile with a warning 
in g++. So what precisely do you get if you ignore the warning? What do 
other C++ compilers do? Apart from the lack of warning, what actually is 
the difference between Python's behaviour and C++'s behaviour?



> (Other than the reason that adopting it *now* is sadly too late.)
> 
> Furthermore, Python's strategy here is SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED, according
> to the reference manual to catch bugs. I.e., from the original posting
> on this issue:
> 
>      Unlike Standard C, all unrecognized escape sequences are left in
>      the string unchanged, i.e., the backslash is left in the string.
>      (This behavior is useful when debugging: if an escape sequence is
>      mistyped, the resulting output is more easily recognized as
>      broken.)

You need to work on your reading comprehension. It doesn't say anything 
about the motivation for this behaviour, let alone that it was 
"SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED" to catch bugs. It says it is useful for 
debugging. My shoe is useful for squashing poisonous spiders, but it 
wasn't designed as a poisonous-spider squashing device.



>> The compiler can't save you from typing 1234 instead of 11234, or 31.45
>> instead of 3.145, or "My darling Ho" instead of "My darling Jo", so why
>> do you expect it to save you from typing "abc\d" instead of "abc\\d"?
> 
> Because in the former cases it can't catch the the bug, and in the
> latter case, it can.

I'm not convinced this is a bug that needs catching, but if you think it 
is, then that's a reasonable argument.



>> Perhaps it can catch *some* errors of that type, but only at the cost
>> of extra effort required to defeat the compiler (forcing the programmer
>> to type \\d to prevent the compiler complaining about \d). I don't
>> think the benefit is worth the cost. You and your friend do. Who is to
>> say you're right?
> 
> Well, Bjarne Stroustrup, for one.

Then let him design his own language *wink*


> All of these are value judgments, of course, but I truly doubt that
> anyone would have been bothered if Python from day one had behaved the
> way that C++ does. 

If I'm reading this page correctly, Python does behave as C++ does. Or at 
least as Larch/C++ does:

http://www.cs.ucf.edu/~leavens/larchc++manual/lcpp_47.html




>> In C++, if you see an escape you don't recognize, do you care?
> 
> Yes, of course I do. If I need to know what the program does.

Precisely the same as in Python.


>> Do you go running for the manual? If the answer is No, then why do it
>> in Python?
> 
> The answer is that I do in both cases.

You deleted without answer my next question:

"And if the answer is Yes, then how is Python worse than C++?"

Seems to me that the answer is "It's not worse than C++, it's the same" 
-- in both cases, you have to memorize the "special" escape sequences, 
and in both cases, if you see an escape you don't recognize, you need to 
look it up.



>> No. \z *is* a legal escape sequence, it just happens to map to \z.
> 
>> If you stop thinking of \z as an illegal escape sequence that Python
>> refuses to raise an error for, the problem goes away. It's a legal
>> escape sequence that maps to backslash + z.
> 
> (1) I already used that argument on my friend, and he wasn't buying it.
> (Personally, I find the argument technically valid, but commonsensically
> invalid. It's a language-lawyer kind of argument, rather than one that
> appeals to any notion of real aesthetics.)

I disagree with your sense of aesthetics. I think that having to write 
\\y when I want \y just to satisfy a bondage-and-discipline compiler is 
ugly. That's not to deny that B&D isn't useful on occasion, but in this 
case I believe the benefit is negligible, and so even a tiny cost is not 
worth the pain.

The sweet sweet pain... oh wait, sorry, wrong newsgroup...



> (2) That argument disagrees with the Python reference manual, which
> explicitly states that "unrecognized escape sequences are left in the
> string unchanged", and that the purpose for doing so is because it "is
> useful when debugging".

How does it disagree? \y in the source code mapping to \y in the string 
object is the sequence being left unchanged. And the usefulness of doing 
so is hardly a disagreement over the fact that it does so.



>> > "\x" is not a legal escape sequence. Shouldn't it also get left as
>> > "\\x"?
>>
>> No, because it actually is an illegal escape sequence.
> 
> What makes it "illegal". As far as I can tell, it's just another
> "unrecognized escape sequence". 

No, it's recognized, because \x is the prefix for an hexadecimal escape 
code. And it's illegal, because it's missing the actual hexadecimal 
digits.


> JavaScript treats it that way. Are you
> going to be the one to tell all the JavaScript programmers that their
> language can't tell a legal escape sequence from an illegal one?

Well, it is Javascript... 

All joking aside, syntax varies from one language to another. What counts 
as a legal escape sequence in Javascript and what counts as a legal 
escape sequence in Python are different. What makes you think I'm talking 
about Javascript?


>> > Well, I think he's more annoyed that if Python is going to be so
>> > helpful as to put in the missing "\" for you in "foo\zbar", then it
>> > should put in the missing "\" for you in "\". He considers this to be
>> > an inconsistency.
>>
>> (1) There is no missing \ in "foo\zbar".
>>
>> (2) The problem with "\" isn't a missing backslash, but a missing end-
>> quote.
> 
> Says who? All of this really depends on your point of view. The whole
> morass goes away completely if one adopts C++'s approach here.

But the morass only exists in the first place because you have adopted 
C++'s approach instead of Python's approach -- and (possibly) not even a 
standard part of the C++ approach, but a non-standard warning provided by 
one compiler out of many.


Even if you disagree about (1), it's easy enough to prove that (2) is 
correct:

>>> "\"
  File "", line 1
    "\"
      ^
SyntaxError: EOL while scanning single-quoted string


This is the exact same error you get here:


>>> "a
  File "", line 1
    "a
     ^
SyntaxError: EOL while scanning single-quoted string



>> Python isn't DWIMing here. The rules are simple and straightforward,
>> there's no mind-reading or guessing required.
> 
> It may not be a complex form of DWIMing, but it's still DWIMing a bit.
> Python is figuring that if I typed "\z", then either I must have really
> meant to type "\\z", 

Nope, not in the least. Python NEVER EVER EVER tries to guess what you 
mean.

If you type "xyz", it assumes you want "xyz".

If you type "xyz\n", it assumes you want "xyz\n".

If you type "xyz\\n", it assumes you want "xyz\\n".

If you type "xyz\y", it assumes you want "xyz\y".

If you type "xyz\\y", it assumes you want "xyz\\y".

This is *exactly* like C++, except that in Python the semantics of \y and 
\\y are identical. Python doesn't guess what you mean, it *imposes* a 
meaning on the escape sequence. You just don't like that meaning.



> or that I want to see the backslash when I'm
> debugging because I made a mistake, or that I'm just too lazy to type
> "\\z".

Oh jeez, if you're going to define DWIM so broadly, then *everything* is 
DWIM. "If I type '1+2', then the C++ compiler figures out that I must 
have wanted to add 1 and 2..."


> I don't know if my friend even knows the term DWIM, other than me
> paraphrasing him, but I certainly understand all about the term. It
> comes from InterLisp. When DWIM was enabled, your program would run
> until it hit an error, and for certain kinds of errors, it would wait a
> few seconds for the user to notice the error message, and if the user
> didn't tell the program to stop, it would try to figure out what the
> user most likely meant, and then continue running using the
> computer-generated "fix".

Right. And Python isn't doing anything even remotely similar to that.



> I.e., more or less like continuing on in the face of what the Python
> Reference manual refers to as an "unrecognized escape sequence".

The wording could be better, I accept. It would be better to talk about 
"special escapes" (e.g. \n) and "any non-special escape" (e.g. \y).




-- 
Steven


From nad at acm.org  Tue Aug 11 03:13:07 2009
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 00:13:07 -0700
Subject: ElementTree - Howto access text within XML tag element...
References: <1ad8dac1-8fff-493a-a197-d847e7b6a761@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

In article 
<1ad8dac1-8fff-493a-a197-d847e7b6a761 at c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>,
 cmalmqui  wrote:
> I am writing on a small XML parser and are currently stuck as I am not
> able to get the whole element name in ElementTree.
> 
> Please see the below example where "print root[0][0]" returns
> ""
> 
> Is there a way to get hold of the "Running" string in the tag using
> elementTree?
> 
> 
>     
>       2009-07-10T14:48:00Z
>       
>       .........

"Running" is the value of the "Sport" attribute of the "Activity" 
element.  The documentation for the Element interface lists several ways 
to access element attributes; in your example,

>>> elem = root[0][0]
>>> elem.get("Sport")
'Running'
>>> elem.attrib
{'Sport': 'Running'}
>>> elem.items()
[('Sport', 'Running')]

See http://docs.python.org/library/xml.etree.elementtree.html

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org



From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Tue Aug 11 03:42:06 2009
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 11 Aug 2009 07:42:06 GMT
Subject: How to pickle a lambda function?
References: <37c55108-083f-4d60-b8a3-9b2b10833ac3@r18g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Terry  wrote:

> I'm trying to implement something like:
> 
> remote_map(fun, list)
> 
> to execute the function on a remove machine. But the problem is I
> cannot pickle a lambda function and send it to the remote machine.
> 
> Is there any possible way to pickle (or other method) any functions
> including lambda?
> 

You can pickle any named functions that are declared at module scope.

You cannot pickle anonymous functions, methods, or functions declared 
nested inside other functions. The function must be present in the same 
module when you unpickle it, and if the definition has changed between 
pickling and unpickling the new definition will be used (just as other 
instances will use the current class definition not the one they were 
pickled with).

You probably could pickle some of the components needed to create your 
lambda and construct a new function from it when unpickling: try the code 
object, the name of the module to be used for the globals, and default 
arguments. I don't think you can pickle the closure so better make sure 
your lambda doesn't need one, and be very careful to ensure that you 
restore the pickle in the same version of Python otherwise the code object 
might break. Best just avoid this and use named functions for anything that 
needs pickling.

-- 
Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com


From solipsis at pitrou.net  Tue Aug 11 03:47:39 2009
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 07:47:39 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

r  gmail.com> writes:
> 
> On Aug 9, 11:02?pm, David Lyon  wrote:
> > Since you're talking about documentation, which is a part of python,
> > don't you think you should be discussing it on python-dev ?
> 
> Yea, them's be a friendly bunch to noob ideas ;). Hey i got a better
> idea, lets go to the IRS and see if we can persuade them to stop
> taxing us...

You know, the most interesting thing in this thread is certainly its title :
? Social problems of Python doc ?

Yes, the little social problem here should be clear: if you have complaints to
voice or improvements to suggest to the Python docs, you should do so on the
issue tracker (*). For most topics, this is the only reasonable way to signal
problems to the Python developers community, and so it is in most free software
/ open source projects.

Just because you are able to write tongue-in-cheek (**) comments on python-list
or, even worse, on a third party website, and generate a long thread about how
Python doc (supposedly) s*cks
1) doesn't mean there is a legitimate issue (we all know how people can quickly
inflame about empty subjects)
2) even though there can be a legitimate issue, doesn't mean Python developers
will go out of their way and parse the entirety of the messages to find
potentially useful data in them. The bug tracker is the place for this, and it's
your task, if you want to help, to submit suggestions in it.

FYI, the Python doc is very actively maintained nowadays, and bug reports /are/
taken into account. If you think you've got a lot of time for ranting about how
the doc sucks, but don't want to spend the couple of minutes needed to post
issues on the bug tracker, it speaks a lot about your motivation. Admittedly, in
every successful community, there are attention seekers who are not interested
in actual participation.

(*) http://bugs.python.org

(**) yes, humour is fine, but it doesn't replace actual, informational content


Antoine.




From deets at nospam.web.de  Tue Aug 11 03:51:02 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 09:51:02 +0200
Subject: ElementTree - Howto access text within XML tag element...
In-Reply-To: <1ad8dac1-8fff-493a-a197-d847e7b6a761@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <1ad8dac1-8fff-493a-a197-d847e7b6a761@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7ecm77F2fbf71U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

cmalmqui schrieb:
> Hi,
> 
> I am writing on a small XML parser and are currently stuck as I am not
> able to get the whole element name in ElementTree.
> 
> Please see the below example where "print root[0][0]" returns
> ""
> 
> Is there a way to get hold of the "Running" string in the tag using
> elementTree?
> 
> 
>     
>       2009-07-10T14:48:00Z
>       
>       .........
> 
> For those of you that know how to program XML I have another
> question:
> I am currently "hardcoding" my XML parser using brackets, is this a
> good approach or should I build it using a "search on tag" approach.

What do you mean by that - hardcoding by brackets?

Diez


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Aug 11 03:56:39 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 08:56:39 +0100
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>		<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> r  gmail.com> writes:
>> On Aug 9, 11:02 pm, David Lyon  wrote:
>>> Since you're talking about documentation, which is a part of python,
>>> don't you think you should be discussing it on python-dev ?
>> Yea, them's be a friendly bunch to noob ideas ;). Hey i got a better
>> idea, lets go to the IRS and see if we can persuade them to stop
>> taxing us...
> 
> You know, the most interesting thing in this thread is certainly its title :
> ? Social problems of Python doc ?
> 
> Yes, the little social problem here should be clear: if you have complaints to
> voice or improvements to suggest to the Python docs, you should do so on the
> issue tracker (*). For most topics, this is the only reasonable way to signal
> problems to the Python developers community, and so it is in most free software
> / open source projects.
> 
> Just because you are able to write tongue-in-cheek (**) comments on python-list
> or, even worse, on a third party website, and generate a long thread about how
> Python doc (supposedly) s*cks
> 1) doesn't mean there is a legitimate issue (we all know how people can quickly
> inflame about empty subjects)
> 2) even though there can be a legitimate issue, doesn't mean Python developers
> will go out of their way and parse the entirety of the messages to find
> potentially useful data in them. The bug tracker is the place for this, and it's
> your task, if you want to help, to submit suggestions in it.
> 
> FYI, the Python doc is very actively maintained nowadays, and bug reports /are/
> taken into account. If you think you've got a lot of time for ranting about how
> the doc sucks, but don't want to spend the couple of minutes needed to post
> issues on the bug tracker, it speaks a lot about your motivation. Admittedly, in
> every successful community, there are attention seekers who are not interested
> in actual participation.
> 
> (*) http://bugs.python.org
> 
> (**) yes, humour is fine, but it doesn't replace actual, informational content
> 
> 
> Antoine.
> 
> 
Thank you for this fine, cultured, reasonable response.  Seriously!!!

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From terry.yinzhe at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 04:16:14 2009
From: terry.yinzhe at gmail.com (Terry)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 01:16:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to pickle a lambda function?
References: <37c55108-083f-4d60-b8a3-9b2b10833ac3@r18g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 11, 3:42?pm, Duncan Booth  wrote:
> Terry  wrote:
> > I'm trying to implement something like:
>
> > remote_map(fun, list)
>
> > to execute the function on a remove machine. But the problem is I
> > cannot pickle a lambda function and send it to the remote machine.
>
> > Is there any possible way to pickle (or other method) any functions
> > including lambda?
>
> You can pickle any named functions that are declared at module scope.
>
> You cannot pickle anonymous functions, methods, or functions declared
> nested inside other functions. The function must be present in the same
> module when you unpickle it, and if the definition has changed between
> pickling and unpickling the new definition will be used (just as other
> instances will use the current class definition not the one they were
> pickled with).
>
> You probably could pickle some of the components needed to create your
> lambda and construct a new function from it when unpickling: try the code
> object, the name of the module to be used for the globals, and default
> arguments. I don't think you can pickle the closure so better make sure
> your lambda doesn't need one, and be very careful to ensure that you
> restore the pickle in the same version of Python otherwise the code object
> might break. Best just avoid this and use named functions for anything that
> needs pickling.
>
> --
> Duncan Boothhttp://kupuguy.blogspot.com

Yes, I'm think of pickle (actually marshal) the code object. Otherwise
I have to use string and eval:-(

The reason I need to be able to pickle any function is because I want
my remote machine knows nothing about the function before receiving
it, so I don't need to update the source code in the remote machine
very often.

br, terry


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Tue Aug 11 04:17:00 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 01:17:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Problem Regarding Handling of Unicode string
References: <9ac0e194-9e25-468a-9807-957ef3142dd3@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <47b265c5-e71f-4018-815a-0bfbea927a4a@y28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 10, 9:26?pm, joy99  wrote:
> Dear Group,
>
> I am using Python26 on WindowsXP with service pack2. My GUI is IDLE.
> I am using Hindi resources and get nice output like:
> ??
> where I can use all the re functions and other functions without doing
> any transliteration,etc.
> I was trying to use Bengali but it is giving me output like:

WHAT is giving you this output?

> '\xef\xbb\xbf\xe0\xa6\x85\xe0\xa6\xa8\xe0\xa7\x87\xe0\xa6\x95'

In a very ordinary IDLE session (Win XP SP3, Python 2.6.2, locale:
Australia/English, no "Hindi resources"):

>>> x = '\xef\xbb\xbf\xe0\xa6\x85\xe0\xa6\xa8\xe0\xa7\x87\xe0\xa6\x95'
>>> ux = x.decode('utf-8')
>>> ux
u'\ufeff\u0985\u09a8\u09c7\u0995'
>>> print ux
????? # looks like what you wanted; please confirm
>>> import unicodedata
>>> for c in ux:
	print unicodedata.name(c)


ZERO WIDTH NO-BREAK SPACE # this is a BOM
BENGALI LETTER A
BENGALI LETTER NA
BENGALI VOWEL SIGN E
BENGALI LETTER KA
>>>

> I wanted to see Bengali output as
> ????
> and I like to use all functions including re.
> If any one can help me on that.

"I am using Hindi resources" doesn't tell us much ... except to prompt
the comment that perhaps if you want to display Bengali script, you
may need Bengali resources. However it looks like I can display your
Bengali data without any special resources.

It seems like you are not doing the same with Bengali as you are doing
with Hindi. We can't help you very much if you don't show exactly what
you are doing.

Have you considered asking in an Indian Python forum? Note: you will
still need to say what you are doing that works with Hindi but not
with Bengali.

Cheers,
John


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Tue Aug 11 04:41:25 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:41:25 +0200
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
In-Reply-To: <081115fd-8014-4e6b-8d7b-76d6fcf6a59d@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro
	ups.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<081115fd-8014-4e6b-8d7b-76d6fcf6a59d@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a812e8d$0$27778$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

r a ?crit :
(snip)
> 
> A little note for tutorial writers:
> ==================================
> 
> Dear Expert,
> Whilst writing any tutorial on any subject matter please remember, you
> may be an expert, but mostly *non-experts* will be reading your
> material... 

I can only second Paul on this : just like the K&R, Python's official 
tutorial targets experienced programmers, not total noobies.



From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Tue Aug 11 04:46:19 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:46:19 +0200
Subject: With or without leading underscore...
In-Reply-To: <4d6719e4-217a-4921-bd26-228fd4944eb7@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
References: <5un5l6-fvn.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	<4d6719e4-217a-4921-bd26-228fd4944eb7@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a812fb2$0$27778$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Carl Banks a ?crit :
(snip)


> class A(object):
>     def __init__(self,*args,**kwargs):
>         raise TypeError('Type not callable; use factory function
> instead')
> 
>     @classmethod
>     def _create_object(cls,initial_value):
>         self = object.__new__(cls) # avoid __init__
>         self.value = initial_value

I assume there's a missing "return self" line here ?-)


From Brian.Mingus at colorado.edu  Tue Aug 11 04:49:01 2009
From: Brian.Mingus at colorado.edu (Brian)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 02:49:01 -0600
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
In-Reply-To: <756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
References: 
	
	
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
Message-ID: <9839a05c0908110149paa2eddbue3880037e0fded3f@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:12 PM, Kee Nethery  wrote:

> I too find the Python docs not very useful and it really slows down my
> learning curve.
>
> I wonder if it would make sense to find good tech writers, get a quotes,
> and get some professionally written documentation WITH LOTS OF EXAMPLES
> added to the standard Python documentation tree.
>
> I'd chip in money for that task. I've certainly spent enough buying Python
> books to where it would be very reasonable to chip in the cost of one book
> towards this project. Get enough people ... could be a great thing.
>
> Even though it is not the version I use, I would suggest that the really
> detailed docs with lots of examples be written against the latest python
> version.
>
> Just a thought.
>
> Kee Nethery
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

One thing I really like about the PHP docs is the built in forums. User
feedback on documentation is invaluable.
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From zhongshq at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 04:49:40 2009
From: zhongshq at gmail.com (zhongshq)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 01:49:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is there any package implanation the following arithmetics?
Message-ID: 

Hi,

I wonder if there has any package can check whether two rectangles are
overlap, is a dot inside or outside a polygon, etc.

Thanks a lot!


From vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Aug 11 06:23:00 2009
From: vinay_sajip at yahoo.co.uk (Vinay Sajip)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 03:23:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need help in configuration for TimedRotatingFileHandler
References: <7e6938ce-91c9-4b65-980f-46d76bf69220@d36g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
	<4A7F3C83.1040607@ieee.org>
	 
	 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 10, 3:52?pm, Dave Angel  wrote:
> Lokesh Maremalla wrote:
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> > ? File "c:\Python25\lib\logging\handlers.py", line 74, in emit
> > ? ? self.doRollover()
> > ? File "c:\Python25\lib\logging\handlers.py", line 274, in doRollover
> > ? ? os.rename(self.baseFilename, dfn)
> > WindowsError: [Error 32] The process cannot access the file because it is
> > being used by another process
>
> Generally speaking, this error on os.rename() will occur if you haven't
> properly closed the file first, and if I recall correctly, Unix would
> have permitted a rename on an open file. ?You're on Windows. ?However, I
> don't know how that works with theloggingpackage. ?If the program has
> terminated, and you run it a second time on the following day (or after
> changing the system time), then I'd expect no trouble. ?But I'm guessing
> your program is still running, and you just want to change fromlogging
> to yesterday's file tologgingto today's file.
>
> If I had to guess, I'd say that you have two instances of the logger
> running, and the second one is still holding the handle open. ?But
> that's just a wild guess.
>

It's certainly possible that there are two instances of the handler,
which would cause this problem. Other things which might cause this
problem are the file handle inherited by a child process, an anti-
virus scanner having the file open for scanning (anti-virus scanners
often scan files which have just been written, like log files) and
indexing software such as Google Desktop or Windows' own indexing
service.

I would advise using sysinternals tools such as FileMon and Handle to
see what's holding the file open.

Regards,


Vinay Sajip


From scholz.lothar at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 06:45:10 2009
From: scholz.lothar at gmail.com (llothar)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 03:45:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: UML for Python or some other Graphical Notation Language
Message-ID: <2eabd7a9-2517-41b3-a3be-183171c04372@2g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

This is more an academic question right now but was there ever some
work in progress how UML could be made better for Python or script
languages in general.

It is so extremely deep interwoven with Java/C++ language
implementations that there are a lot of modified notiations necessary.

Or is there anything else then UML?
Eiffel still has BON for example.


From helvinlui at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 07:22:13 2009
From: helvinlui at gmail.com (Helvin)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 04:22:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Search and write to .txt file
Message-ID: 

Hi everyone,

I am writing some python script that should find a line which contains
'1' in the data.txt file, then be able to move a certain number of
lines down, before replacing a line. At the moment, I am able to find
the line '1', but when I use f.seek to move, and then rewrite, what I
write goes to the end of the .txt file, instead of being adjusted by
my f.seek.

Do you know what way I should take?

Data.txt is a file of 3 lines:
   line1
   line2
   line3

Code:

   with open('data.txt', 'r+') as f:
       firstread = f.readlines()   # Take a snapshot of initial file

       f.seek(0,0)    # Go back to beginning and search
       for line in f:
           print line
           if line.find('1'):
               print 'line matched'
               f.seek(1,1)       # Move one space along
               f.write('house\n')     # f.write overwrites the exact
number of bytes.
               break                    # leave loop once '1' is found

       f.seek(0,0)              # Go back to beginning, and read
data.txt again
       lastread = f.readlines()

       print 'firstread is', firstread
       print 'lastread is', lastread

This shouldn't be too difficult, but I don't know how. > <
Help appreciated!


From lujan at ceam.es  Tue Aug 11 07:26:42 2009
From: lujan at ceam.es (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Alonso_Luj=E1n_Torres_Ta=F1o?=)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:26:42 +0200
Subject: add fields in a existing dbf
Message-ID: <4A815572.1020905@ceam.es>

Hi!

I'm trying to modify a dbf adding a new field in a python script, but I 
can't.

Just I can add a field in new dbf created in the same script.

I tryed with:

    db = dbf.Dbf("../filesource.dbf",new =False, readOnly=False)
    ...
    db.addField(("PESO","N",32,8))

and return error:

    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "script.py", line 34, in 
        db.addField(("PESO","N",32,8))
      File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/dbfpy/dbf.py", line 229, in
    addField
        "structure can't be changed")
    TypeError: ('At least one record was added, ', "structure can't be
    changed")


I have not idea of what error I make.

If someone can help me, I'll so gratefull.

Thanks!
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From kushal.kumaran+python at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 07:34:35 2009
From: kushal.kumaran+python at gmail.com (Kushal Kumaran)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 17:04:35 +0530
Subject: Search and write to .txt file
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <1e364c4e0908110434m52701b64vebca82dbbec8d300@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 4:52 PM, Helvin wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I am writing some python script that should find a line which contains
> '1' in the data.txt file, then be able to move a certain number of
> lines down, before replacing a line. At the moment, I am able to find
> the line '1', but when I use f.seek to move, and then rewrite, what I
> write goes to the end of the .txt file, instead of being adjusted by
> my f.seek.
>
> Do you know what way I should take?
>

It might be easier to read the file into a list of lines (using
readlines, as you do in your code already), make your change there and
write it back to a file.  If your file is indeed as small as you
indicate below, that should be significantly easier.

> Data.txt is a file of 3 lines:
> ? line1
> ? line2
> ? line3
>
> Code:
>
> ? with open('data.txt', 'r+') as f:
> ? ? ? firstread = f.readlines() ? # Take a snapshot of initial file
>
> ? ? ? f.seek(0,0) ? ?# Go back to beginning and search
> ? ? ? for line in f:
> ? ? ? ? ? print line
> ? ? ? ? ? if line.find('1'):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print 'line matched'
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? f.seek(1,1) ? ? ? # Move one space along
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? f.write('house\n') ? ? # f.write overwrites the exact
> number of bytes.
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? break ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?# leave loop once '1' is found
>
> ? ? ? f.seek(0,0) ? ? ? ? ? ? ?# Go back to beginning, and read
> data.txt again
> ? ? ? lastread = f.readlines()
>
> ? ? ? print 'firstread is', firstread
> ? ? ? print 'lastread is', lastread
>
> This shouldn't be too difficult, but I don't know how. > <
> Help appreciated!


From davea at ieee.org  Tue Aug 11 07:37:25 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 07:37:25 -0400
Subject: dictionary help
In-Reply-To: <4A809AF80200008C000149EC@redhorse.forestry.uga.edu>
References: <4A809AF80200008C000149EC@redhorse.forestry.uga.edu>
Message-ID: <4A8157F5.1010103@ieee.org>

Krishna Pacifici wrote:
> Hi,
> kind of a newbie here, but I have two questions that are probably pretty simple.
>
> 1.  I need to get rid of duplicate values that are associated with different keys in a dictionary.  For example I have the following code.
> s={}
> s[0]=[10,2,3]
>  s[10]=[22,23,24]
>  s[20]=[45,5]
> s[30]=[2,4]
> s[40]=[6,7,8]
>
> Now I want to be able to loop through the primary keys and get rid of duplicates (both in keys and values) so that I would have either a new dictionary or the same dictionary but with the following values:
>
> s[0]=[3]
>  s[10]=[22,23,24]
>  s[20]=[45,5]
> s[30]=[2,4]
> s[40]=[6,7,8]
>
> It doesn't matter which value gets removed as long as there is only one remaining, so in this example it doesn't matter that 2 got removed from s[0] or from s[30] as long as there is only one 2 in the dictionary.
>
> 2.  I need to be able to loop over the values in the dictionary when there are multiple values assigned to each key like above and assign new values to those values.  Taking the above example I would want to assign a new value so that when you called s[0] it would equal [3,4] say if 4 was the new value.  I think this should be as simple as adding a value, but I kept on having difficulty.
>
> Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thank you very much,
> Krishna
>
>
>   
Sounds like homework.  If it was for an unconstrained project, I'd 
design a different data structure, one that directly enforced the data 
constraints.  So far, I can't imagine a useful reason for this 
particular set of constraints.

Let's break the problems down.

1a)   Do you know how to write a loop that visits all the keys of a 
dictionary?
1b)  Do you know how to safely check if a particular key exists?     
e.g.      if   key in s:
1c)  Do you know how to collect a set of values, so that when a 
duplicate is found, it can be recognized as such?
1d) Do you know how to remove an item from a list?

2a)  Like 1a)
2b) Do you know how to append a value to the end of a list?  Is s[key] a 
list?


DaveA



From deets at nospam.web.de  Tue Aug 11 07:49:04 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:49:04 +0200
Subject: UML for Python or some other Graphical Notation Language
References: <2eabd7a9-2517-41b3-a3be-183171c04372@2g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7ed45gF2evk04U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

llothar wrote:

> This is more an academic question right now but was there ever some
> work in progress how UML could be made better for Python or script
> languages in general.
> 
> It is so extremely deep interwoven with Java/C++ language
> implementations that there are a lot of modified notiations necessary.
> 
> Or is there anything else then UML?
> Eiffel still has BON for example.

http://fptiny.blogspot.com/2008/03/rad-with-tiny-erp.html

Diez


From skip at pobox.com  Tue Aug 11 08:40:31 2009
From: skip at pobox.com (skip at pobox.com)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 07:40:31 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: test message
Message-ID: <20090811124031.4B11911ACFB4@montanaro.dyndns.org>

Sorry for the low content email.  Testing the mail-to-news gateway on
mail.python.org.  Don't flame me for not using a test newsgroup. ;-)

-- 
Skip Montanaro - skip at pobox.com - http://www.smontanaro.net/
    Getting old sucks, but it beats dying young


From skip.montanaro at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 09:00:54 2009
From: skip.montanaro at gmail.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 06:00:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: test message
References: 
Message-ID: <7e0b6c26-b95d-48a5-a16e-bbbc7361f240@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 11, 7:40?am, s... at pobox.com wrote:
> Sorry for the low content email. ?Testing the mail-to-news gateway on
> mail.python.org. ?Don't flame me for not using a test newsgroup. ;-)

Posting a followup to test the return path (news-to-mail).

S


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Tue Aug 11 09:30:12 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 15:30:12 +0200
Subject: Search and write to .txt file
References: 
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Helvin  (H) wrote:

>H> Hi everyone,
>H> I am writing some python script that should find a line which contains
>H> '1' in the data.txt file, then be able to move a certain number of
>H> lines down, before replacing a line. At the moment, I am able to find
>H> the line '1', but when I use f.seek to move, and then rewrite, what I
>H> write goes to the end of the .txt file, instead of being adjusted by
>H> my f.seek.

>H> Do you know what way I should take?

>H> Data.txt is a file of 3 lines:
>H>    line1
>H>    line2
>H>    line3

>H> Code:

>H>    with open('data.txt', 'r+') as f:
>H>        firstread = f.readlines()   # Take a snapshot of initial file

>H>        f.seek(0,0)    # Go back to beginning and search
>H>        for line in f:
>H>            print line
>H>            if line.find('1'):
>H>                print 'line matched'
>H>                f.seek(1,1)       # Move one space along
>H>                f.write('house\n')     # f.write overwrites the exact
>H> number of bytes.
>H>                break                    # leave loop once '1' is found

Mixing an iterator on the file with direct calls (seek/write) isn't
going to work. The iterator does read ahead which causes the file
position not to be what you think it is.

See:

>>> with open('data.txt', 'r+') as f:
...   for line in f:
...       print line, f.tell()
... 
line1
18
line2
18
line3
18

-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From bmorab at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 09:49:58 2009
From: bmorab at gmail.com (telekab1@hotmail.com)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 06:49:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Extracting matrix from a text file
Message-ID: 

Hello to all!!

I am new in python, and I am running it on Mac with Smultron editor. I
need to read a textfile that includes numbers (in a matrix form),
indexes, and strings, like this:

Marsyas-kea distance matrix for MIREX 2007 Audio Similarity Exchange
Q/R        1                   2                   3
4                5
1        0                  4.54592        4.36685
5.29463        3.85728
2        4.54592        0                  3.97667
5.02151        4.64284
3        4.36685        3.97667        0
4.98743        4.83683
4        5.29463        5.02151        4.98743
0                  6.04393
5        3.85728        4.64284        4.83683        6.04393        0

My code to get this information is:

matrix = open("dmatrix_5.txt");

while 1:
    mat = matrix.readline()
    if not mat:
    	break
    pass # do something
    print mat



So I just want to keep the matrix in the "middle" for math
computations.

        0                  4.54592        4.36685
5.29463        3.85728
        4.54592        0                  3.97667
5.02151        4.64284
        4.36685        3.97667        0
4.98743        4.83683
        5.29463        5.02151        4.98743
0                  6.04393
        3.85728        4.64284        4.83683        6.04393        0


I've seen and tried a lot of ways, like split or isinstance.. but
never get the wanted result.... does anyone have an idea, or hint?
Thank you once more for your help!

Best Regards,
Bea


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Tue Aug 11 09:50:01 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 15:50:01 +0200
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<3611ca55-79a6-4336-9041-07d0893789f7@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
	<0447e8a2-508d-45b2-8d15-da0cc2a56b5f@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Steven D'Aprano  (SD) wrote:

>SD> If I'm reading this page correctly, Python does behave as C++ does. Or at 
>SD> least as Larch/C++ does:

>SD> http://www.cs.ucf.edu/~leavens/larchc++manual/lcpp_47.html

They call them `non-standard escape sequences' for a reason: that they
are not in standard C++.

test.cpp:
char* temp = "abc\yz";

TEMP> g++ -c test.cpp
test.cpp:1:1: warning: unknown escape sequence '\y'

-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Aug 11 09:52:29 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:52:29 +0100
Subject: Search and write to .txt file
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Helvin wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I am writing some python script that should find a line which contains
> '1' in the data.txt file, then be able to move a certain number of
> lines down, before replacing a line. At the moment, I am able to find
> the line '1', but when I use f.seek to move, and then rewrite, what I
> write goes to the end of the .txt file, instead of being adjusted by
> my f.seek.
> 
> Do you know what way I should take?
> 
> Data.txt is a file of 3 lines:
>    line1
>    line2
>    line3
> 
> Code:
> 
>    with open('data.txt', 'r+') as f:
>        firstread = f.readlines()   # Take a snapshot of initial file
> 
>        f.seek(0,0)    # Go back to beginning and search
>        for line in f:
>            print line
>            if line.find('1'):
>                print 'line matched'
>                f.seek(1,1)       # Move one space along
>                f.write('house\n')     # f.write overwrites the exact
> number of bytes.
>                break                    # leave loop once '1' is found
> 
>        f.seek(0,0)              # Go back to beginning, and read
> data.txt again
>        lastread = f.readlines()
> 
>        print 'firstread is', firstread
>        print 'lastread is', lastread
> 
> This shouldn't be too difficult, but I don't know how. > <
> Help appreciated!
You can't mix and match the file iterator "for line in f" with the seek 
method.  You already have the data in firstread, why not process it from 
there, i.e. "for line in firstread".  Also look at the docs for the find 
method, it doesn't return what you think it does.

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Aug 11 10:04:31 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 15:04:31 +0100
Subject: Extracting matrix from a text file
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

telekab1 at hotmail.com wrote:
> Hello to all!!
> 
> I am new in python, and I am running it on Mac with Smultron editor. I
> need to read a textfile that includes numbers (in a matrix form),
> indexes, and strings, like this:
> 
> Marsyas-kea distance matrix for MIREX 2007 Audio Similarity Exchange
> Q/R        1                   2                   3
> 4                5
> 1        0                  4.54592        4.36685
> 5.29463        3.85728
> 2        4.54592        0                  3.97667
> 5.02151        4.64284
> 3        4.36685        3.97667        0
> 4.98743        4.83683
> 4        5.29463        5.02151        4.98743
> 0                  6.04393
> 5        3.85728        4.64284        4.83683        6.04393        0
> 
> My code to get this information is:
> 
> matrix = open("dmatrix_5.txt");
> 
> while 1:
>     mat = matrix.readline()
>     if not mat:
>     	break
>     pass # do something
>     print mat
> 
> 
> 
> So I just want to keep the matrix in the "middle" for math
> computations.
> 
>         0                  4.54592        4.36685
> 5.29463        3.85728
>         4.54592        0                  3.97667
> 5.02151        4.64284
>         4.36685        3.97667        0
> 4.98743        4.83683
>         5.29463        5.02151        4.98743
> 0                  6.04393
>         3.85728        4.64284        4.83683        6.04393        0
> 
> 
> I've seen and tried a lot of ways, like split or isinstance.. but
> never get the wanted result.... does anyone have an idea, or hint?
> Thank you once more for your help!
> 
> Best Regards,
> Bea
I think your best bet is to read and action the responses you got to 
your original email from three days ago.  If these have got lost in the 
post simply search online, they're bound to be archived somewhere.

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Tue Aug 11 10:12:17 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 07:12:17 -0700
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
In-Reply-To: <0985e0fe54bf41fa3736cd6697d42bf4@preisshare.net>
References: 			<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>		<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>		<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro	ups.com>
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>			<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	
	<4A80472E.4090108@stoneleaf.us>
	<0985e0fe54bf41fa3736cd6697d42bf4@preisshare.net>
Message-ID: <4A817C41.2050607@stoneleaf.us>

David Lyon wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:13:34 -0700, Ethan Furman 
> wrote:
> 
>>As someone who relies heavily on the docs I will also say that the idea 
>>of giving the ability to modify the official documentation to somebody 
>>who is /learning/ the language is, quite frankly, terrifying.  
> 
> 
> What is more terrifying is the way feedback from newbies is handled.
> 
> Your statement implies that the only way feedback can be handled is
> to throw the keys down in discust and walk away. That's primative
> behaviour. And misleading, because that isn't going to happen.
> 

Allow me to put back the sentence you unfairly snipped:
> I have no issues with a seperate system, some of which have been 
> suggested, but good reference documentation is crucial.  If you find 
> examples lacking, there are plenty of web-sites, or even (dare I say
> it?) actual hard-copy books!  ;)

To be clear, what I am advocating is that *official documentation not be 
opened up to everybody,* _especially not people who don't yet grok the 
language_.

> 
>>My bookshelf currently has Learning Python, Programming 
>>Python, Python Cookbook, Python Programming on Win32, and Regular 
>>Expressions.  All great books, and not too pricey if you can get them
> 
> used.
> 
> So, what you're advocating is let things stay how they are...
> 
> Ignore feedback... tell people to freak off...
> 
> 

I had not addressed feedback before, but I shall do so now:  Discuss 
concern on the Python list first to make sure it is not a lack of 
understanding, then, if a legitimate issue with the docs exists, use the 
bug tracker.  If one can't be bothered to take the time to be a 
Responsible Citizen, I am not going to be bothered by lacking that one's 
comments/concerns/feed-back.

~Ethan~


From davea at ieee.org  Tue Aug 11 10:22:49 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:22:49 -0400
Subject: Search and write to .txt file
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <4A817EB9.9040807@ieee.org>

Piet van Oostrum wrote:
>>>>>> Helvin  (H) wrote:
>>>>>>             
>
>   
>> H> Hi everyone,
>> H> I am writing some python script that should find a line which contains
>> H> '1' in the data.txt file, then be able to move a certain number of
>> H> lines down, before replacing a line. At the moment, I am able to find
>> H> the line '1', but when I use f.seek to move, and then rewrite, what I
>> H> write goes to the end of the .txt file, instead of being adjusted by
>> H> my f.seek.
>>     
>
>   
>> H> Do you know what way I should take?
>>     
>
>   
>> H> Data.txt is a file of 3 lines:
>> H>    line1
>> H>    line2
>> H>    line3
>>     
>
>   
>> H> Code:
>>     
>
>   
>> H>    with open('data.txt', 'r+') as f:
>> H>        firstread = f.readlines()   # Take a snapshot of initial file
>>     
>
>   
>> H>        f.seek(0,0)    # Go back to beginning and search
>> H>        for line in f:
>> H>            print line
>> H>            if line.find('1'):
>> H>                print 'line matched'
>> H>                f.seek(1,1)       # Move one space along
>> H>                f.write('house\n')     # f.write overwrites the exact
>> H> number of bytes.
>> H>                break                    # leave loop once '1' is found
>>     
>
> Mixing an iterator on the file with direct calls (seek/write) isn't
> going to work. The iterator does read ahead which causes the file
> position not to be what you think it is.
>
> See:
>
>   
>>>> with open('data.txt', 'r+') as f:
>>>>         
> ...   for line in f:
> ...       print line, f.tell()
> ... 
> line1
> 18
> line2
> 18
> line3
> 18
>
>   
In addition to the buffering involved in the read loop, trying to 
position ahead some number of lines would be rather error prone, since 
this is a text file, with varying length lines, and the \n character 
might occupy one byte on some OS, and two bytes on others (Windows).  If 
you feel you must do it in-place, then switch the file mode to binary, 
and use read(), not readline(), keeping track of your own position at 
all times.

As was already suggested by Kushal, if the file is small enough to just 
use readlines() and manipulate that list, I'd do that.  If not, I'd scan 
through the file, creating a new one, creating a new one as you go, then 
rename the new one back when finished.  Actually, I'd create a new one 
even in the first case, in case of a crash while rewriting the file.


DaveA


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Tue Aug 11 10:35:54 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 07:35:54 -0700
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
In-Reply-To: 
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>							<86e09602-7eb1-4397-a77f-fb1e3c5b34b9@k26g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4A8181CA.9050200@stoneleaf.us>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 08:21:03 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:
> 
> 
>>But you're right, it's too late to change this now.
> 
> 
> Not really. There is a procedure for making non-backwards compatible 
> changes. If you care deeply enough about this, you could agitate for 
> Python 3.2 to raise a PendingDepreciation warning for "unexpected" escape 
> sequences like \z, Python 3.3 to raise a Depreciation warning, and Python 
> 3.4 to treat it as an error.
> 
> It may even be possible to skip the PendingDepreciation warning and go 
> straight for Depreciation warning in 3.2.
> 
> 

And once it's fully depreciated you have to stop writing it off on your 
taxes.  *wink*

~Ethan~


From Nikolaus at rath.org  Tue Aug 11 10:44:11 2009
From: Nikolaus at rath.org (Nikolaus Rath)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:44:11 -0400
Subject: Profiling a Callback Function
Message-ID: <1250001851.3970.15.camel@inspiron.ap.columbia.edu>

Hello,

I am trying to profile a Python program that primarily calls a C
extension. From within the C extension, a callback Python function is
then called concurrently in several threads.

When I tried to profile this application with

  import c_extension
  def callback_fn(args):
      # Do all sorts of complicated, time consuming stuff
      pass

  def main():
      c_extension.call_me_back(callback_fn, some_random_args)

  cProfile.run('main', 'profile.dat')

I only got results for main(), but no information at all about
callback_fn.


What is the proper way to profile such an application? 


I already thought about this:

  import c_extension

  def callback_fn(args):
      # Do all sorts of complicated, time consuming stuff
      pass
  
  def callback_wrapper(args):
       def doit():
           callback_fn(args)

       cProfile.run('doit', 'profile.dat')

  c_extension.call_me_back(callback_wrapper, some_random_args)


but that probably overwrites the profiling information whenever
callback_wrapper is called, instead of accumulating them over several
calls (with different arguments).


Best,


   -Nikolaus

-- 
 ?Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a Banana.?

  PGP fingerprint: 5B93 61F8 4EA2 E279 ABF6  02CF A9AD B7F8 AE4E 425C




From cjw at ncf.ca  Tue Aug 11 10:45:28 2009
From: cjw at ncf.ca (Colin J. Williams)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:45:28 -0400
Subject: Extracting matrix from a text file
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A818408.6080506@ncf.ca>

telekab1 at hotmail.com wrote:
> Hello to all!!
> 
> I am new in python, and I am running it on Mac with Smultron editor. I
> need to read a textfile that includes numbers (in a matrix form),
> indexes, and strings, like this:
> 
> Marsyas-kea distance matrix for MIREX 2007 Audio Similarity Exchange
> Q/R        1                   2                   3
> 4                5
> 1        0                  4.54592        4.36685
> 5.29463        3.85728
> 2        4.54592        0                  3.97667
> 5.02151        4.64284
> 3        4.36685        3.97667        0
> 4.98743        4.83683
> 4        5.29463        5.02151        4.98743
> 0                  6.04393
> 5        3.85728        4.64284        4.83683        6.04393        0
> 
> My code to get this information is:
> 
> matrix = open("dmatrix_5.txt");
> 
> while 1:
>     mat = matrix.readline()
>     if not mat:
>     	break
>     pass # do something
>     print mat
> 
> 
> 
> So I just want to keep the matrix in the "middle" for math
> computations.
> 
>         0                  4.54592        4.36685
> 5.29463        3.85728
>         4.54592        0                  3.97667
> 5.02151        4.64284
>         4.36685        3.97667        0
> 4.98743        4.83683
>         5.29463        5.02151        4.98743
> 0                  6.04393
>         3.85728        4.64284        4.83683        6.04393        0
> 
> 
> I've seen and tried a lot of ways, like split or isinstance.. but
> never get the wanted result.... does anyone have an idea, or hint?
> Thank you once more for your help!
> 
> Best Regards,
> Bea

numpy provides an answer.  See the little script below:

import numpy as _n
import string as _s
a=  "0       4.54592 4.36685 5.29463 3.85728 " + \
   "4.54592 0       3.97667 5.02151 4.64284 "   + \
   '4.36685 3.97667 0       4.98743 4.83683 '   + \
   '5.29463 5.02151 4.98743 0       6.04393 '   + \
   '3.85728 4.64284 4.83683 6.04393 0'

d= _n.mat(_n.reshape(_n.array(a.split(), dtype= _n.float), (5, 5)))
print repr(d)
print 'Default printoptions:', _n.get_printoptions()

for p in range(9):
   _n.set_printoptions(precision= p)
   print 'precision= ', p, '\n', d

When you run this, you'll see that there is a numpy glitch for precisions > 5.

Colin W.


From rurpy at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 11 10:57:28 2009
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 07:57:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On 08/11/2009 01:47 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> r  gmail.com>  writes:
>> On Aug 9, 11:02 pm, David Lyon  wrote:
>>> Since you're talking about documentation, which is a part of python,
>>> don't you think you should be discussing it on python-dev ?
>> Yea, them's be a friendly bunch to noob ideas ;). Hey i got a better
>> idea, lets go to the IRS and see if we can persuade them to stop
>> taxing us...
>
> You know, the most interesting thing in this thread is certainly its title :
> ? Social problems of Python doc ?
>
> Yes, the little social problem here should be clear: if you have complaints to
> voice or improvements to suggest to the Python docs, you should do so on the
> issue tracker (*). For most topics, this is the only reasonable way to signal
> problems to the Python developers community, and so it is in most free software
> / open source projects.

"the *only* reasonable way"?  That's clearly wrong (unless you
want to wiggle in the room provided by "reasonable" or "most").
There is discussion on the dev list, there is discussion here.

The issue tracker is fine for many things, but the process it
provides is equivalent to peep-hole optimization.  How does one
submit a tracker issue for something like the overall organization
of the docs (for example, the mis-placement of things like data-
types in the library manual rather than the language manual)?

The big problem with the docs is poor writing (this includes
not using examples when they can help explain something more
clearly than verbiage alone).  It is understandable why this
should be so -- most programmers are good at and enjoy
programming, not writing and the python community is, say,
about 99.9% programmers.

This is why all the attempts (at least that I've noticed) are
programming focused -- build a wiki, write a new doc processing
framework, etc.  Unfortunately none of those addresses the real
problem -- the need for clear, well written, well organized
*content*.  I don't see how telling people to submit tracker
issues will solve this problem.  I can rewrite some section so
it sounds good to me, but likely it will be just as bad (perhaps
in different ways) that what is there.

The post that started this thread proposed something like paying
professional writers to improve the docs.  This may or may not
be a practical suggestion.  But the immediate response it
engendered was an auto-immune-like group response: the docs
are great already, don't complain, fix them yourself, yada, yada;
the same response that any criticism of free software produces.

It's really too bad the the python community can't seriously
discuss ways to improves the docs.  There are other possibilities
for instance the Fedora Docs project (can't say I'm impressed
by what they've produced but that doesn't mean their model
is useless).  There is a need for an approval process managed
by someone who actually understands what good technical writing
is.  And perhaps editors who can polish or work with programmers
who provide the raw technical description of some module.

Some kind of higher level more global process is the only
way I can see that the docs will be improved to any sort
or professional standard.  I don't see how issues like this
will be addressed by submitting tracker items.

Personally, I have given up on this issue.  The social factors
involved really pretty much determine that the Python docs
will never reach a very high quality -- that's just the way
it is and I've come to accept that.


From pacificik at warnell.uga.edu  Tue Aug 11 11:13:28 2009
From: pacificik at warnell.uga.edu (Krishna Pacifici)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 11:13:28 -0400
Subject: dictionary help
Message-ID: <4A8152580200008C00014A44@redhorse.forestry.uga.edu>

Thanks for the help.

Actually this is part of a much larger project, but I have unfortunately pigeon-holed myself into needing to do these things without a whole lot of flexibility.

To give a specific example I have the following dictionary where I need to remove values that are duplicated with other values and remove values that are duplicates of the keys, but still retain it as a dictionary.  Each value is itself a class with many attributes that I need to call later on in the program, but I cannot have duplicates because it would mess up some estimation part of my model.

d =
{36: [35, 37, 26, 46], 75: [74, 76, 65, 85], 21: [20, 22, 11, 31], 22: [21, 23, 12, 32], 26: [25, 27, 16, 36], 30: [20, 31, 40]}

So I want a new dictionary that would get rid of the duplicate values of 21, 22, 36 and 20 and give me back a dictionary that looked like this:

new_d=
{36: [35, 37, 26, 46], 75: [74, 76, 65, 85], 21: [20, 11, 31], 22: [23, 12, 32], 26: [25, 27, 16], 30: [40]}

I understand that a dictionary may not be the best approach, but like I said I have sort of pigeon-holed myself by the way that I am simulating my data and the estimation model that I am using.  Any suggestions or comments about the above problem would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again,
Krishna



>>> Dave Angel  08/11/09 7:38 AM >>>
Krishna Pacifici wrote:
> Hi,
> kind of a newbie here, but I have two questions that are probably pretty simple.
>
> 1.  I need to get rid of duplicate values that are associated with different keys in a dictionary.  For example I have the following code.
> s={}
> s[0]=[10,2,3]
>  s[10]=[22,23,24]
>  s[20]=[45,5]
> s[30]=[2,4]
> s[40]=[6,7,8]
>
> Now I want to be able to loop through the primary keys and get rid of duplicates (both in keys and values) so that I would have either a new dictionary or the same dictionary but with the following values:
>
> s[0]=[3]
>  s[10]=[22,23,24]
>  s[20]=[45,5]
> s[30]=[2,4]
> s[40]=[6,7,8]
>
> It doesn't matter which value gets removed as long as there is only one remaining, so in this example it doesn't matter that 2 got removed from s[0] or from s[30] as long as there is only one 2 in the dictionary.
>
> 2.  I need to be able to loop over the values in the dictionary when there are multiple values assigned to each key like above and assign new values to those values.  Taking the above example I would want to assign a new value so that when you called s[0] it would equal [3,4] say if 4 was the new value.  I think this should be as simple as adding a value, but I kept on having difficulty.
>
> Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thank you very much,
> Krishna
>
>
>   
Sounds like homework.  If it was for an unconstrained project, I'd 
design a different data structure, one that directly enforced the data 
constraints.  So far, I can't imagine a useful reason for this 
particular set of constraints.

Let's break the problems down.

1a)   Do you know how to write a loop that visits all the keys of a 
dictionary?
1b)  Do you know how to safely check if a particular key exists?     
e.g.      if   key in s:
1c)  Do you know how to collect a set of values, so that when a 
duplicate is found, it can be recognized as such?
1d) Do you know how to remove an item from a list?

2a)  Like 1a)
2b) Do you know how to append a value to the end of a list?  Is s[key] a 
list?


DaveA


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From sajmikins at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 11:44:04 2009
From: sajmikins at gmail.com (Simon Forman)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 08:44:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Search and write to .txt file
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 11, 7:22?am, Helvin  wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I am writing some python script that should find a line which contains
> '1' in the data.txt file, then be able to move a certain number of
> lines down, before replacing a line. At the moment, I am able to find
> the line '1', but when I use f.seek to move, and then rewrite, what I
> write goes to the end of the .txt file, instead of being adjusted by
> my f.seek.
>
> Do you know what way I should take?
>
> Data.txt is a file of 3 lines:
> ? ?line1
> ? ?line2
> ? ?line3
>
> Code:
>
> ? ?with open('data.txt', 'r+') as f:
> ? ? ? ?firstread = f.readlines() ? # Take a snapshot of initial file
>
> ? ? ? ?f.seek(0,0) ? ?# Go back to beginning and search
> ? ? ? ?for line in f:
> ? ? ? ? ? ?print line
> ? ? ? ? ? ?if line.find('1'):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?print 'line matched'
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?f.seek(1,1) ? ? ? # Move one space along
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?f.write('house\n') ? ? # f.write overwrites the exact
> number of bytes.
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?break ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?# leave loop once '1' is found
>
> ? ? ? ?f.seek(0,0) ? ? ? ? ? ? ?# Go back to beginning, and read
> data.txt again
> ? ? ? ?lastread = f.readlines()
>
> ? ? ? ?print 'firstread is', firstread
> ? ? ? ?print 'lastread is', lastread
>
> This shouldn't be too difficult, but I don't know how. > <
> Help appreciated!

There's a bug in this line:

if line.find('1'):

the string find() method returns an integer, which will be -1 if the
substring is not found. In python -1 is treated as True (only 0 is
False) so your if statement will always succeed unless '1' is the
first character on the line.

HTH,
~Simon


P.S. you can use the help() command in the python interpreter to get
docs on most things:

>>> help(str.find)

Help on method_descriptor:

find(...)
    S.find(sub [,start [,end]]) -> int

    Return the lowest index in S where substring sub is found,
    such that sub is contained within s[start:end].  Optional
    arguments start and end are interpreted as in slice notation.

    Return -1 on failure.



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Tue Aug 11 11:51:42 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 16:51:42 +0100
Subject: dictionary help
In-Reply-To: <4A8152580200008C00014A44@redhorse.forestry.uga.edu>
References: <4A8152580200008C00014A44@redhorse.forestry.uga.edu>
Message-ID: <4A81938E.3070509@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Krishna Pacifici wrote:
> Thanks for the help.
> 
> Actually this is part of a much larger project, but I have unfortunately 
> pigeon-holed myself into needing to do these things without a whole lot 
> of flexibility.
> 
> To give a specific example I have the following dictionary where I need 
> to remove values that are duplicated with other values and remove values 
> that are duplicates of the keys, but still retain it as a dictionary.  
> Each value is itself a class with many attributes that I need to call 
> later on in the program, but I cannot have duplicates because it would 
> mess up some estimation part of my model.
> 
> d =
> {36: [35, 37, 26, 46], 75: [74, 76, 65, 85], 21: [20, 22, 11, 31], 22: 
> [21, 23, 12, 32], 26: [25, 27, 16, 36], 30: [20, 31, 40]}
> 
> So I want a new dictionary that would get rid of the duplicate values of 
> 21, 22, 36 and 20 and give me back a dictionary that looked like this:
> 
> new_d=
> {36: [35, 37, 26, 46], 75: [74, 76, 65, 85], 21: [20, 11, 31], 22: [23, 
> 12, 32], 26: [25, 27, 16], 30: [40]}
> 
> I understand that a dictionary may not be the best approach, but like I 
> said I have sort of pigeon-holed myself by the way that I am simulating 
> my data and the estimation model that I am using.  Any suggestions or 
> comments about the above problem would be greatly appreciated.
> 
 >>> d = {36: [35, 37, 26, 46], 75: [74, 76, 65, 85], 21: [20, 22, 11,
31], 22: [21, 23, 12, 32], 26: [25, 27, 16, 36], 30: [20, 31, 40]}
 >>> new_d = {}
 >>> seen = set(d.keys())
 >>> for k, v in d.items():
...     new_d[k] = [x for x in v if x not in seen]
...     seen |= set(new_d[k])
...
 >>> new_d
{36: [35, 37, 46], 75: [74, 76, 65, 85], 21: [20, 11, 31], 22: [23, 12,
32], 26: [25, 27, 16], 30: [40]}



From sajmikins at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 12:10:10 2009
From: sajmikins at gmail.com (Simon Forman)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 09:10:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: dictionary help
References: <4A8152580200008C00014A44@redhorse.forestry.uga.edu> 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 11, 11:51?am, MRAB  wrote:
> Krishna Pacifici wrote:
> > Thanks for the help.
>
> > Actually this is part of a much larger project, but I have unfortunately
> > pigeon-holed myself into needing to do these things without a whole lot
> > of flexibility.
>
> > To give a specific example I have the following dictionary where I need
> > to remove values that are duplicated with other values and remove values
> > that are duplicates of the keys, but still retain it as a dictionary. ?
> > Each value is itself a class with many attributes that I need to call
> > later on in the program, but I cannot have duplicates because it would
> > mess up some estimation part of my model.
>
> > d =
> > {36: [35, 37, 26, 46], 75: [74, 76, 65, 85], 21: [20, 22, 11, 31], 22:
> > [21, 23, 12, 32], 26: [25, 27, 16, 36], 30: [20, 31, 40]}
>
> > So I want a new dictionary that would get rid of the duplicate values of
> > 21, 22, 36 and 20 and give me back a dictionary that looked like this:
>
> > new_d=
> > {36: [35, 37, 26, 46], 75: [74, 76, 65, 85], 21: [20, 11, 31], 22: [23,
> > 12, 32], 26: [25, 27, 16], 30: [40]}
>
> > I understand that a dictionary may not be the best approach, but like I
> > said I have sort of pigeon-holed myself by the way that I am simulating
> > my data and the estimation model that I am using. ?Any suggestions or
> > comments about the above problem would be greatly appreciated.
>
> ?>>> d = {36: [35, 37, 26, 46], 75: [74, 76, 65, 85], 21: [20, 22, 11,
> 31], 22: [21, 23, 12, 32], 26: [25, 27, 16, 36], 30: [20, 31, 40]}
> ?>>> new_d = {}
> ?>>> seen = set(d.keys())
> ?>>> for k, v in d.items():
> ... ? ? new_d[k] = [x for x in v if x not in seen]
> ... ? ? seen |= set(new_d[k])
> ...
> ?>>> new_d
> {36: [35, 37, 46], 75: [74, 76, 65, 85], 21: [20, 11, 31], 22: [23, 12,
> 32], 26: [25, 27, 16], 30: [40]}

Ha ha, MRAB beat me to it:

d = {
    36: [35, 37, 26, 46],
    75: [74, 76, 65, 85],
    21: [20, 22, 11, 31],
    22: [21, 23, 12, 32],
    26: [25, 27, 16, 36],
    30: [20, 31, 40],
    }


new_d = { # Given, and apparently incorrect.
    36: [35, 37, 26, 46], # 26 is a key and should be gone.
    75: [74, 76, 65, 85],
    21: [20, 11, 31],
    22: [23, 12, 32],
    26: [25, 27, 16],
    30: [40],
    }


expected = {
    36: [35, 37, 46],
    75: [74, 76, 65, 85],
    21: [20, 11, 31],
    22: [23, 12, 32],
    26: [25, 27, 16],
    30: [40],
    }


def removeDuplicates(D):
    '''
    Remove values that are duplicated with other values
    and remove values that are duplicates of the keys.

    Assumes that values in the lists are already unique within
    each list.  I.e. duplicates are only in the keys or in other
    lists.

    This function works "in place" on D, so it doesn't return
    anything.  Caller must keep a reference to D.
    '''

    seen = set(D) # Get a set of the keys.

    for key, values_list in D.iteritems():

        # Filter out values that have already been seen.
        filtered_values = [
            value
            for value in values_list
            if not value in seen
            ]

        # Remember newly seen values.
        seen.update(filtered_values)

        D[key] = filtered_values


## Example:
##
##    >>> d == expected
##    False
##    >>> removeDuplicates(d)
##    >>> d == expected
##    True


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Tue Aug 11 12:12:44 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 09:12:44 -0700
Subject: add fields in a existing dbf
In-Reply-To: <4A815572.1020905@ceam.es>
References: <4A815572.1020905@ceam.es>
Message-ID: <4A81987C.4080800@stoneleaf.us>

Alonso Luj?n Torres Ta?o wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> I'm trying to modify a dbf adding a new field in a python script, but I 
> can't.
> 
> Just I can add a field in new dbf created in the same script.
> 
> I tryed with:
> 
>     db = dbf.Dbf("../filesource.dbf",new =False, readOnly=False)
>     ...
>     db.addField(("PESO","N",32,8))
> 
> and return error:
> 
>     Traceback (most recent call last):
>       File "script.py", line 34, in 
>         db.addField(("PESO","N",32,8))
>       File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/dbfpy/dbf.py", line 229, in
>     addField
>         "structure can't be changed")
>     TypeError: ('At least one record was added, ', "structure can't be
>     changed")
> 
> 
> I have not idea of what error I make.
> 
> If someone can help me, I'll so gratefull.
> 
> Thanks!
> 

I am not familiar with dbfpy, but the dbf files I am familiar with do 
not support 32 digit Numerics.  Did you mean 12?

At any rate, if you use http://groups.google.com/group/python-dbase

the commands would be:

import dbf
db = dbf.Table("../filesource.dbf")
db.add_fields("peso N(12.8)")
db.close()

and you'll have your field -- assuming, of course, you have write 
priveleges, etc.

Hope this helps!

~Ethan~

Disclaimer:  I am the author of python-dbase.


From petshmidt at googlemail.com  Tue Aug 11 12:33:52 2009
From: petshmidt at googlemail.com (someone)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 09:33:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: better way?
Message-ID: <9899e909-509e-47d4-a8e5-f9d70e0b8827@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I'd like to make insert into db if record not exist otherwise update.
to save typing list of columns in both statements I do following

query = "SELECT location FROM table WHERE location = %s AND id = %s;"
result = self._getResult(db, query, [location,id])

fields = ['id', 'location', 'wl', 'modified', 'counter', 'name']
if result:
    t = map(lambda s: s + ' = %s', fields)
    temp = ", ".join(t)
    query = "UPDATE table SET " + temp + " WHERE location = %s AND id
= %s;"
    self._execQuery(db, query, [id, location, self.wl, 'NOW()', 1,
name, location, id])
else:
    f = ", ".join(fields)
    query = """
        INSERT INTO table
        (""" + f + """)
        VALUES
        (%s,%s,%s,NOW()- interval '1 day', 1, %s)
    """
    self._execQuery(db, query, [id, location, self.wl, name])



is there better or more readable way to do it?

Pet


From bthate at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 12:41:37 2009
From: bthate at gmail.com (Bart Thate)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 09:41:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: GOZERBOT 0.9.1 released
Message-ID: <0fefbd87-efa2-4eaa-afe1-9e5b7ec5ad86@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

here it is .. GOZERBOT 0.9.1 !!

Main change this time is the distribution method, we now provide a
tar.gz with all the dependencies included. This means that you can run
the bot locally without any root required. Python 2.5 or higher
needed, see http://gozerbot.org

Enjoy !

about GOZERBOT:

GOZERBOT is a channel bot that aids with conversation in irc channels
and
jabber conference rooms. its mainly used to serve rss feeds and to
have
custom commands made for the channel. More then just a channel bot
GOZERBOT
aims to provide a platform for the user to program his own bot and
make it
into something thats usefull. This is done with a plugin structure
that
makes it easy to program your own. But GOZERBOT comes with some
batteries
included, there are now over 100 plugins already written and ready for
use.


From emile at fenx.com  Tue Aug 11 12:49:19 2009
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 09:49:19 -0700
Subject: Is there any package implanation the following arithmetics?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 8/11/2009 1:49 AM zhongshq said...
> Hi,
> 
> I wonder if there has any package can check whether two rectangles are
> overlap, is a dot inside or outside a polygon, etc.

PythonCad at http://sourceforge.net/projects/pythoncad/ has 
intersections built in.

Emile



From rt8396 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 12:49:31 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 09:49:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References:   
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	 
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro ups.com> 
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	 
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	
	<4A80472E.4090108@stoneleaf.us> 
	
	
Message-ID: <63f2b657-c646-4a69-9a05-1da5975bb6d2@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 11, 1:47?am, Steven D'Aprano
 wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:05:00 -0400, David Lyon wrote:
> > Ignore feedback... tell people to freak off...
>
> Only useless feedback.

And who decides what is useless and what isn't Steven?. You?, alex23?,
Bruno?, Paul? Carl? Who makes these decisions and do *they* make them
without pride or prejudice? Do they approve an idea by someone they
hate because it it good, or do they toss it in the trash just to spite
them, because they have the power to do so? As we can see much
resistace exists against even the ideas of change. How will change
ever take place with such defiance!

I am sorry but i feel many here would not judge fairly based on the
merits of an idea without allowing "buddy-systems" or "pecking-orders"
to get in the way. Sad really, only Python suffers in the end.

Some say the tutorial is not meant for non-programmers, but for
programmers with no Python experience. So! How does that justify
obstruction of the tut? Why not present the same information in a way
both can easily understand? I thought Pythons original vision was to
allow easy entry into programming for anybody -- experienced or not!
Anybody remember "CP4E"?

Is this an ivory tower thing? i dunno, but it seems to be...???



From pacificik at warnell.uga.edu  Tue Aug 11 12:55:28 2009
From: pacificik at warnell.uga.edu (Krishna Pacifici)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 12:55:28 -0400
Subject: dictionary help
Message-ID: <4A816A400200008C00014A70@redhorse.forestry.uga.edu>

Wow, thanks MRAB and Simon, you guys are good.

I guess I will go ahead and ask the next question that has also stumped me for awhile now.

So basically I need to loop through the values in the new dictionary and append attributes of a class object.  Each of the values (and keys) represent a block in a grid with a specific location (e.g. 35 is the block in row 3 col 5) and each block is an object with several attributes associated with it.  I want to call that block and append two separate attributes to the dictionary within that same key.

So again it would look something like this:

block 35 has 2 attributes, say a and b, a=2, b=5 
block 37 has a=1, b=3
block 46 has a=3, b=8

the two attributes come from two different definitions within the class statement, 
def detections
...
return a

def abundance
...
return b

so I would want to append to key 36 those two attributes for each block so that the resulting dictionary item would look like this:
                         a           b   
{36:[35,37,46], [2,1,3], [5,3,8] ...}

Any help with this would be greatly appreciated.  And thank you so much for all of your help thus far, I'm still pretty new to python and am enjoying all of the flexibility associated with a scripting and programming language.

Thanks again,
Krishna

>>> Simon Forman  08/11/09 12:15 PM >>>
On Aug 11, 11:51 am, MRAB  wrote:
> Krishna Pacifici wrote:
> > Thanks for the help.
>
> > Actually this is part of a much larger project, but I have unfortunately
> > pigeon-holed myself into needing to do these things without a whole lot
> > of flexibility.
>
> > To give a specific example I have the following dictionary where I need
> > to remove values that are duplicated with other values and remove values
> > that are duplicates of the keys, but still retain it as a dictionary.  
> > Each value is itself a class with many attributes that I need to call
> > later on in the program, but I cannot have duplicates because it would
> > mess up some estimation part of my model.
>
> > d =
> > {36: [35, 37, 26, 46], 75: [74, 76, 65, 85], 21: [20, 22, 11, 31], 22:
> > [21, 23, 12, 32], 26: [25, 27, 16, 36], 30: [20, 31, 40]}
>
> > So I want a new dictionary that would get rid of the duplicate values of
> > 21, 22, 36 and 20 and give me back a dictionary that looked like this:
>
> > new_d=
> > {36: [35, 37, 26, 46], 75: [74, 76, 65, 85], 21: [20, 11, 31], 22: [23,
> > 12, 32], 26: [25, 27, 16], 30: [40]}
>
> > I understand that a dictionary may not be the best approach, but like I
> > said I have sort of pigeon-holed myself by the way that I am simulating
> > my data and the estimation model that I am using.  Any suggestions or
> > comments about the above problem would be greatly appreciated.
>
>  >>> d = {36: [35, 37, 26, 46], 75: [74, 76, 65, 85], 21: [20, 22, 11,
> 31], 22: [21, 23, 12, 32], 26: [25, 27, 16, 36], 30: [20, 31, 40]}
>  >>> new_d = {}
>  >>> seen = set(d.keys())
>  >>> for k, v in d.items():
> ...     new_d[k] = [x for x in v if x not in seen]
> ...     seen |= set(new_d[k])
> ...
>  >>> new_d
> {36: [35, 37, 46], 75: [74, 76, 65, 85], 21: [20, 11, 31], 22: [23, 12,
> 32], 26: [25, 27, 16], 30: [40]}

Ha ha, MRAB beat me to it:

d = {
    36: [35, 37, 26, 46],
    75: [74, 76, 65, 85],
    21: [20, 22, 11, 31],
    22: [21, 23, 12, 32],
    26: [25, 27, 16, 36],
    30: [20, 31, 40],
    }


new_d = { # Given, and apparently incorrect.
    36: [35, 37, 26, 46], # 26 is a key and should be gone.
    75: [74, 76, 65, 85],
    21: [20, 11, 31],
    22: [23, 12, 32],
    26: [25, 27, 16],
    30: [40],
    }


expected = {
    36: [35, 37, 46],
    75: [74, 76, 65, 85],
    21: [20, 11, 31],
    22: [23, 12, 32],
    26: [25, 27, 16],
    30: [40],
    }


def removeDuplicates(D):
    '''
    Remove values that are duplicated with other values
    and remove values that are duplicates of the keys.

    Assumes that values in the lists are already unique within
    each list.  I.e. duplicates are only in the keys or in other
    lists.

    This function works "in place" on D, so it doesn't return
    anything.  Caller must keep a reference to D.
    '''

    seen = set(D) # Get a set of the keys.

    for key, values_list in D.iteritems():

        # Filter out values that have already been seen.
        filtered_values = [
            value
            for value in values_list
            if not value in seen
            ]

        # Remember newly seen values.
        seen.update(filtered_values)

        D[key] = filtered_values


## Example:
##
##    >>> d == expected
##    False
##    >>> removeDuplicates(d)
##    >>> d == expected
##    True
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

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From liukis at usc.edu  Tue Aug 11 13:29:42 2009
From: liukis at usc.edu (Maria Liukis)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:29:42 -0700
Subject: Any built-in function for smallest positive floating point number?
Message-ID: 

Hello everybody,

Is somebody aware of built-in Python's function that would return a  
value for smallest positive double precision floating point number  
(analogous to 'realmin' in Matlab). Python has built-in sys.maxint  
but I could not find anything for float.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Masha
--------------------
liukis at usc.edu



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From dotancohen at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 13:33:39 2009
From: dotancohen at gmail.com (Dotan Cohen)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 20:33:39 +0300
Subject: Scraping Wikipedia with Python
Message-ID: <880dece00908111033n2a9f8e5et937d1f4bbcb2df89@mail.gmail.com>

I plan on making a geography-learning Anki [1] deck, and Wikipedia has
the information that I need in nicely formatted tables on the side of
each country's page. Has someone already invented a wheel to parse and
store that data (scrape)? It is probably not difficult to code, and
within the Wikipedia license, but if that wheel has already been
invented then I don't want to redo it. I tried googling for a
Wikipedia-specific solution but found none, is there a general purpose
solution that I could use?

Note that I am a regular Wikipedia contributor and plan on staying
within the realm of Wikipedia's rules.


[1] http://ichi2.net/anki/

-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il


From Francis.Brissette at autodesk.com  Tue Aug 11 13:39:49 2009
From: Francis.Brissette at autodesk.com (Francis Brissette)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:39:49 -0700
Subject: Unsigned char array to an unsigned longlong array
Message-ID: 

Hello,

I'm using Python 2.6.2.
Is there a way to have an Array of unsigned longlong (C Type: unsigned longlong, Minimum size if bytes: 8) ?
I found a page on the internet (http://mail.python.org/pipermail/patches/2005-April/017430.html), but I'm not quite sure if it is available.


What I want to do is to store an array of bytes in an array of longlongs.
To workaround this issue, I have tried to use the double array (TypeCode 'd'), since the size in bytes is the same (8 for instance).
But it gives me strange result. Please look at the example:

import array
myByteArray = array.array('B', [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8])
>> myByteArray = array('B', [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8])

myLongArray = array.array('L', myByteArray.tostring() )
myLongArray = array('L', [67305985L, 134678021L])

myDoubleArray = array.array('d', myByteArray.tostring() )
myDoubleArray = array('d', [5.447603722011605e-270])

If we convert the byte array to an hex form, we will get for the long array: [04030201, 08070605].
If we convert this hex array to decimal, we then get the Long Array: [67305985, 134678021].

Now, if we do the same exercise for the double array, the hex form will look like: [0807060504030201].
And the decimal value would be: [5.784376957523072e+17].

Where does the 5.447603722011605e-270 value comes from ?


Thanks for your help,
Francis
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From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Aug 11 13:41:48 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 18:41:48 +0100
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
In-Reply-To: <63f2b657-c646-4a69-9a05-1da5975bb6d2@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References:  
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>		<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>	
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro
	ups.com>
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>	
		<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>		<4A80472E.4090108@stoneleaf.us>
		
	<63f2b657-c646-4a69-9a05-1da5975bb6d2@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

r wrote:
> On Aug 11, 1:47 am, Steven D'Aprano
>  wrote:
>> On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:05:00 -0400, David Lyon wrote:
>>> Ignore feedback... tell people to freak off...
>> Only useless feedback.
> 
[snip]
> 
> I am sorry but i feel many here would not judge fairly based on the
> merits of an idea without allowing "buddy-systems" or "pecking-orders"
> to get in the way. Sad really, only Python suffers in the end.
I disagree with these comments.  I do not believe that Python has a 
buddy system or a pecking order getting in the way of anything.  As you 
are making thsse accusations, either provide hard evidence that can 
persuade me that your perspective on this is correct or shut up.
> 
[snip]
> 

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From nagle at animats.com  Tue Aug 11 13:48:17 2009
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:48:17 -0700
Subject: Is "feedparser" deprecated?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4a7c7a8d$0$1661$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	
Message-ID: <4a81adee$0$1654$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

Gabriel Genellina wrote:
> En Fri, 07 Aug 2009 16:07:48 -0300, John Nagle 
> escribi?:
> 
>>    Feedparser requires SGMLlib, which has been removed from Python 3.0.
>> Feedparser hasn't been updated since 2007. Does this mean Feedparser
>> is dead?
> 
> Since we have generic and easy of use XML parsers like ElementTree and
> lxml,  specialized rss parsers like feedparser are not so much required.
> I've used ElementTree when I had to parse an rss feed in the past (not so
> many times).

    Take a look at what Feedparser has to do to deal with real-world RSS
feeds.  There are several hundred lines of code just to figure out the
source encoding.  There's gzip support, Atom support, base 64 encoding
support... Then there's the RSS polling protocol, which also requires
some support.  A basic XML parser only does part of the job.

					John Nagle


From liukis at usc.edu  Tue Aug 11 13:48:55 2009
From: liukis at usc.edu (Maria Liukis)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:48:55 -0700
Subject: Any built-in function for smallest positive floating point number?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <3E85703A-28AF-4626-8BFB-786C85810BCD@usc.edu>

A bit more of googling gave me an answer:

 >>> import numpy as np
 >>> np.finfo(np.double).tiny
array(2.2250738585072014e-308)
 >>>

Thanks,
Masha
--------------------
liukis at usc.edu



On Aug 11, 2009, at 10:29 AM, Maria Liukis wrote:

> Hello everybody,
>
> Is somebody aware of built-in Python's function that would return a  
> value for smallest positive double precision floating point number  
> (analogous to 'realmin' in Matlab). Python has built-in sys.maxint  
> but I could not find anything for float.
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Masha
> --------------------
> liukis at usc.edu
>
>
>
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

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From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Tue Aug 11 13:53:16 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 11 Aug 2009 17:53:16 GMT
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 07:57:28 -0700, rurpy wrote:

> On 08/11/2009 01:47 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
>> r  gmail.com>  writes:
>>> On Aug 9, 11:02 pm, David Lyon  wrote:
>>>> Since you're talking about documentation, which is a part of python,
>>>> don't you think you should be discussing it on python-dev ?
>>> Yea, them's be a friendly bunch to noob ideas ;). Hey i got a better
>>> idea, lets go to the IRS and see if we can persuade them to stop
>>> taxing us...
>>
>> You know, the most interesting thing in this thread is certainly its
>> title : ? Social problems of Python doc ?
>>
>> Yes, the little social problem here should be clear: if you have
>> complaints to voice or improvements to suggest to the Python docs, you
>> should do so on the issue tracker (*). For most topics, this is the
>> only reasonable way to signal problems to the Python developers
>> community, and so it is in most free software / open source projects.
> 
> "the *only* reasonable way"?  That's clearly wrong (unless you want to
> wiggle in the room provided by "reasonable" or "most"). There is
> discussion on the dev list, there is discussion here.

Discussion here is spitting into the wind. The noise-to-signal ratio is 
high enough that the people who can fix an issue aren't likely to see it 
here. Unless somebody raises a report in the bug tracker, it will go 
nowhere, fast.

The same happens for issues on the dev list: I can't count how many times 
people there have said "put it in the bug tracker, or it will be 
forgotten".


> The issue tracker is fine for many things, but the process it provides
> is equivalent to peep-hole optimization.  How does one submit a tracker
> issue for something like the overall organization of the docs (for
> example, the mis-placement of things like data- types in the library
> manual rather than the language manual)?

The same way you would submit a tracker issue for anything.

"Documentation bug: Data types are misplaced in the library manual 
instead of the language manual.

Suggested alternative: move page docs.python.org/xyz.html to abc.html"



> The big problem with the docs is poor writing (this includes not using
> examples when they can help explain something more clearly than verbiage
> alone).

There's a difference between insufficiently good writing and poor 
writing: think of grading the docs, where 100 is "perfect in every way" 
and -100 is "perfectly awful in every possible way". (It's not a linear 
scale.) A score of 0 is "mediocre, just barely acceptable". Poor writing 
has a negative score. In my opinion, Python's docs are perhaps a 40 or 
50, significantly better than most technical docs I've seen.


[...]
>  I can rewrite some section so it sounds good to me, but likely it will
> be just as bad (perhaps in different ways) that what is there.

Bug reports are valuable even if you don't have the skills to provide a 
patch. Bug reports with patches are even more valuable, but that doesn't 
mean that the failure to provide a patch *necessarily* dooms your report 
to oblivion.


> The post that started this thread proposed something like paying
> professional writers to improve the docs.  This may or may not be a
> practical suggestion.  But the immediate response it engendered was an
> auto-immune-like group response: the docs are great already, don't
> complain, fix them yourself, yada, yada; the same response that any
> criticism of free software produces.

I haven't seen any such knee-jerk responses. What I've seen is a set of 
sensible, *practical* advice:

- complaining on its own, especially here, is pointless;

- Python is a community effort, if you see something that needs fixing, 
do something about it;

- many of us DON'T want arbitrary people "correcting" the official docs 
without oversight, and believe that would be a disaster (arbitrary people 
aren't give check-in privileges to add code to Python's standard library, 
nor should they be given check-in privileges to add docs);

- if people are keen on a Python wiki, then by all means publish one, 
just don't expect the Python dev team to build and manage it for you;

- bug reports and patches to the docs are ALWAYS welcome, even if they 
are rejected;

- if you don't have the skills to fix a bug (including doc bugs), an 
alternative is to pay somebody else to do so instead.

 
> It's really too bad the the python community can't seriously discuss
> ways to improves the docs.  There are other possibilities for instance
> the Fedora Docs project (can't say I'm impressed by what they've
> produced but that doesn't mean their model is useless).  There is a need
> for an approval process managed by someone who actually understands what
> good technical writing is.  And perhaps editors who can polish or work
> with programmers who provide the raw technical description of some
> module.

Yes, you're correct. 

[sarcasm] Now that we've agreed on what needs to be done, the problem is 
solved!!! [end sarcasm]



> Some kind of higher level more global process is the only way I can see
> that the docs will be improved to any sort or professional standard.  I
> don't see how issues like this will be addressed by submitting tracker
> items.

You want community input into the docs, but you're not willing to give 
that input except to bitch and moan and sook that the tracker is no good.

Even if the PSF had a full-time team of professional documentation 
writers and editors, guess what, you would STILL need to submit issues to 
the bug tracker, because otherwise THEY WON'T BE TRACKED.


> Personally, I have given up on this issue.  The social factors involved
> really pretty much determine that the Python docs will never reach a
> very high quality -- that's just the way it is and I've come to accept
> that.

Ultimately it boils down to two factors:

Money.

Effort.

If you won't put in the effort, and you won't put in the money, then it 
won't happen. Moaning that other people aren't putting in the money to 
hire team of professional writers isn't productive, and moaning that 
other people aren't putting in the effort to improve the docs isn't 
either.



-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Tue Aug 11 14:00:08 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 11 Aug 2009 18:00:08 GMT
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<3611ca55-79a6-4336-9041-07d0893789f7@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
	<0447e8a2-508d-45b2-8d15-da0cc2a56b5f@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <0291a21a$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 15:50:01 +0200, Piet van Oostrum wrote:

>>>>>> Steven D'Aprano  (SD) wrote:
> 
>>SD> If I'm reading this page correctly, Python does behave as C++ does.
>>Or at SD> least as Larch/C++ does:
> 
>>SD> http://www.cs.ucf.edu/~leavens/larchc++manual/lcpp_47.html
> 
> They call them `non-standard escape sequences' for a reason: that they
> are not in standard C++.
> 
> test.cpp:
> char* temp = "abc\yz";
> 
> TEMP> g++ -c test.cpp
> test.cpp:1:1: warning: unknown escape sequence '\y'


Isn't that a warning, not a fatal error? So what does temp contain?



-- 
Steven


From squishywaffle at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 14:14:14 2009
From: squishywaffle at gmail.com (squishywaffle at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 11:14:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Networked Broadcast Messaging
Message-ID: <37ea826b-708d-48f4-a64a-42f58fec5325@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

I'm not exactly sure what the term for this would be, but I was
wondering if there were any Python packages that supported some kind
of ad-hoc message broadcasting. What I'd like to do is something like
this:

* On a number of workhorse machines, a process listens for network
messages from our broadcast service. It subscribes to a certain sub-
set of them and will only respond to the messaging events that it is
subscribed to.
* Any machine can broadcast a message out to the network of machines
without specifying an IP address.
* Machines can come and go. Since messages are not directly sent to a
specific IP address from our Python script, the messages are simply
broadcasted to those who are there to listen. If nobody is subscribed
to the message type being sent, nothing happens.

I know XML-RPC and other friends are an option, but I'm looking for
something that doesn't require managing a set of IP addresses or
hostnames. I'm not sure what to Google for such a package/module, any
direction would be greatly appreciated.


From pacificik at warnell.uga.edu  Tue Aug 11 14:17:15 2009
From: pacificik at warnell.uga.edu (Krishna Pacifici)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:17:15 -0400
Subject: looping through values in a dictionary and appending to a
	 list
Message-ID: <4A817D6B0200008C00014A9B@redhorse.forestry.uga.edu>

Nevermind,
got it.

Sorry.

>>> Krishna Pacifici 08/11/09 2:12 PM >>>
Hi,
I want to append the values of a dictionary to a list.  I have a dictionary sec_dict_clean and I want to append the values to a list, but am having a hard time looping through the values in the dictionary.

I have tried something like this:
lista=[]
for i in sec_dict_clean.values():
    for j in sec_dict_clean.values()[i]:
        lista.append(sec_dict_clean.values()[i])

But I keep on getting an error:
TypeError: list indices must be integers

Any ideas on how to loop through values in a dictionary?

Thanks,
Krishna

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From nagle at animats.com  Tue Aug 11 14:26:44 2009
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 11:26:44 -0700
Subject: Scraping Wikipedia with Python
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4a81b6f0$0$1590$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

Dotan Cohen wrote:
> I plan on making a geography-learning Anki [1] deck, and Wikipedia has
> the information that I need in nicely formatted tables on the side of
> each country's page. Has someone already invented a wheel to parse and
> store that data (scrape)? 

     Wikipedia has an API for computer access.  See

	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API

				John Nagle


From dotancohen at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 14:29:40 2009
From: dotancohen at gmail.com (Dotan Cohen)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:29:40 +0300
Subject: Scraping Wikipedia with Python
In-Reply-To: <4a81b6f0$0$1590$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
References: 
	<4a81b6f0$0$1590$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <880dece00908111129k525a0614td4c59a7a9371a7ba@mail.gmail.com>

> ? ?Wikipedia has an API for computer access. ?See
>
> ? ? ? ?http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API
>

Yes, I am aware of this as well. Does anyone know of a python class
for easily interacting with it, or do I need to roll my own.

-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il


From greg.kujawa at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 14:34:54 2009
From: greg.kujawa at gmail.com (gregarican)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 11:34:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Networked Broadcast Messaging
References: <37ea826b-708d-48f4-a64a-42f58fec5325@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <889a2a1d-e791-479e-8e41-4387e1b258fd@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 11, 2:14?pm, "squishywaf... at gmail.com"
 wrote:
> I'm not exactly sure what the term for this would be, but I was
> wondering if there were any Python packages that supported some kind
> of ad-hoc message broadcasting. What I'd like to do is something like
> this:
>
> * On a number of workhorse machines, a process listens for network
> messages from our broadcast service. It subscribes to a certain sub-
> set of them and will only respond to the messaging events that it is
> subscribed to.
> * Any machine can broadcast a message out to the network of machines
> without specifying an IP address.
> * Machines can come and go. Since messages are not directly sent to a
> specific IP address from our Python script, the messages are simply
> broadcasted to those who are there to listen. If nobody is subscribed
> to the message type being sent, nothing happens.
>
> I know XML-RPC and other friends are an option, but I'm looking for
> something that doesn't require managing a set of IP addresses or
> hostnames. I'm not sure what to Google for such a package/module, any
> direction would be greatly appreciated.

Offhand I'd suggest binding a specific UDP port on the listening
workstations. Then the broadcasting workstation(s) could just pull a
standard list of IP's based on its own subnet. Then there'd be no hard-
coded machine names or IP addresses to manage. Just send the message
to all hosts on the same subnet as the broadcaster(s). Plus the UDP
connection would be stateless and not care if the receivers actually
got the message or not...


From kushal.kumaran+python at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 14:39:30 2009
From: kushal.kumaran+python at gmail.com (Kushal Kumaran)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 00:09:30 +0530
Subject: better way?
In-Reply-To: <9899e909-509e-47d4-a8e5-f9d70e0b8827@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <9899e909-509e-47d4-a8e5-f9d70e0b8827@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1e364c4e0908111139r5c4536d6s90be6cf5aef2d26a@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 10:03 PM, someone wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'd like to make insert into db if record not exist otherwise update.
> to save typing list of columns in both statements I do following
>
> 
>
>
> is there better or more readable way to do it?
>

Well, mysql, in particular, offers an "on duplicate key update" clause
that you can take a look at.  Don't know about about other databases.

-- 
kushal


From http  Tue Aug 11 14:40:46 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 11 Aug 2009 11:40:46 -0700
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <7xk51anqhd.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Steven D'Aprano  writes:
> - if people are keen on a Python wiki, then by all means publish one, 
> just don't expect the Python dev team to build and manage it for you;

There are already some nice ones at:

   http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Python


From python at rcn.com  Tue Aug 11 14:43:29 2009
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 11:43:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References:   
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	 
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro ups.com> 
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	 
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	
	 
	<081115fd-8014-4e6b-8d7b-76d6fcf6a59d@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<7xr5vj9m0g.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <2fd432c7-00e2-4bb6-9192-e9f7aa96c4d7@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

[Paul Rubin]
> I think the Python tutorial is aimed at users who are newbies to
> Python but not newbies to programming. ?Writing a tutorial for total
> newbies is a completely different problem, that would result in a much
> different document that's less useful to the existing tutorial's
> intended audience.

There is more than one right answer to "what is the best tutorial
for different people".  The www.python.org website lists a number
of tutorials.  Here is the page specifically marked for those
who are new to programming:

 http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide


Raymond





From petshmidt at googlemail.com  Tue Aug 11 14:45:50 2009
From: petshmidt at googlemail.com (Pet)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 11:45:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: better way?
References: <9899e909-509e-47d4-a8e5-f9d70e0b8827@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <78a18b9b-f29e-432f-9fe4-8c250cb08edb@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On 11 Aug., 20:39, Kushal Kumaran 
wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 10:03 PM, someone wrote:
> > Hello,
>
> > I'd like to make insert into db if record not exist otherwise update.
> > to save typing list of columns in both statements I do following
>
> > 
>
> > is there better or more readable way to do it?
>
> Well, mysql, in particular, offers an "on duplicate key update" clause
> that you can take a look at. ?Don't know about about other databases.
>
> --
> kushal

Oh, forgotten to mention. It's PostGres


From http  Tue Aug 11 14:52:46 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 11 Aug 2009 11:52:46 -0700
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References:  
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro
	ups.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	
	<4A80472E.4090108@stoneleaf.us>
	
	
	<63f2b657-c646-4a69-9a05-1da5975bb6d2@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xfxbynpxd.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

r  writes:
> Some say the tutorial is not meant for non-programmers, but for
> programmers with no Python experience. So! How does that justify
> obstruction of the tut? Why not present the same information in a way
> both can easily understand? 

I agree that a tutorial for non-programmers would be useful, but it's
better to have it as a separate document.  The existing tutorial helps
experienced programmers get started with Python very quickly, by
checking off familiar features from other languages and saying how
Python implements them.  Someone familiar with (say) Java or C++ can
read it in a few minutes and start contributing to a Python project.
Pitching it to complete beginners would require covering a lot of
ground that is already well known to someone who programs in other
languages, and would slow it down too much. 


From dullrich at sprynet.com  Tue Aug 11 14:53:03 2009
From: dullrich at sprynet.com (David C Ullrich)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:53:03 -0500
Subject: Scraping Wikipedia with Python
References: 
	<4a81b6f0$0$1590$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	
Message-ID: <6YidncRAiJ6SIxzXRVn_vwA@giganews.com>

On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:29:40 +0300, Dotan Cohen wrote:

>> ? ?Wikipedia has an API for computer access. ?See
>>
>> ? ? ? ?http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API
>>
>>
> Yes, I am aware of this as well. Does anyone know of a python class for
> easily interacting with it, or do I need to roll my own.

Try reading a little there! Starting there I went to

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Creating_a_bot

where I found a section on existing bots, comments on how the "scraping"
is not what you want, and even a Python section with a link to something 
labelled  PyWikipediaBot...






From http  Tue Aug 11 14:54:16 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 11 Aug 2009 11:54:16 -0700
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References:  
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro
	ups.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<081115fd-8014-4e6b-8d7b-76d6fcf6a59d@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<7xr5vj9m0g.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<2fd432c7-00e2-4bb6-9192-e9f7aa96c4d7@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xab266v1j.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Raymond Hettinger  writes:
> Here is the page specifically marked for those who are new to programming:
>  http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide

Oh cool, I didn't know about that one.


From kushal.kumaran+python at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 15:00:37 2009
From: kushal.kumaran+python at gmail.com (Kushal Kumaran)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 00:30:37 +0530
Subject: Networked Broadcast Messaging
In-Reply-To: <889a2a1d-e791-479e-8e41-4387e1b258fd@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <37ea826b-708d-48f4-a64a-42f58fec5325@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<889a2a1d-e791-479e-8e41-4387e1b258fd@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1e364c4e0908111200j5d83b5d4o6ab950b82265189c@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 12:04 AM, gregarican wrote:
> On Aug 11, 2:14?pm, "squishywaf... at gmail.com"
>  wrote:
>> I'm not exactly sure what the term for this would be, but I was
>> wondering if there were any Python packages that supported some kind
>> of ad-hoc message broadcasting. What I'd like to do is something like
>> this:
>>
>> * On a number of workhorse machines, a process listens for network
>> messages from our broadcast service. It subscribes to a certain sub-
>> set of them and will only respond to the messaging events that it is
>> subscribed to.
>> * Any machine can broadcast a message out to the network of machines
>> without specifying an IP address.
>> * Machines can come and go. Since messages are not directly sent to a
>> specific IP address from our Python script, the messages are simply
>> broadcasted to those who are there to listen. If nobody is subscribed
>> to the message type being sent, nothing happens.
>>
>> I know XML-RPC and other friends are an option, but I'm looking for
>> something that doesn't require managing a set of IP addresses or
>> hostnames. I'm not sure what to Google for such a package/module, any
>> direction would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Offhand I'd suggest binding a specific UDP port on the listening
> workstations. Then the broadcasting workstation(s) could just pull a
> standard list of IP's based on its own subnet. Then there'd be no hard-
> coded machine names or IP addresses to manage. Just send the message
> to all hosts on the same subnet as the broadcaster(s). Plus the UDP
> connection would be stateless and not care if the receivers actually
> got the message or not...

You could use the socket module to broadcast.  Using INADDR_BROADCAST
as the destination should do it.  I fail to recollect whether that
will need root privileges...

-- 
kushal


From maximilianbianco at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 15:01:00 2009
From: maximilianbianco at gmail.com (max bianco)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 15:01:00 -0400
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
In-Reply-To: <0006817d$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<7xk51fgazf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
	
	
	
	<0006817d$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 12:25 AM, Steven
D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 13:35:26 -0700, Kee Nethery wrote:
>
>
>> > Why exactly is posting an open comment on a bug tracker somehow
>> > inferior to posting an open comment on a wiki?
>>
>> It's a good question and deserves a good answer.
>>
>> * Fewer Steps
>> * Immediate
>> * Does not need to be formally reviewed
>> * Easier to search
>
> The last one is actually wrong, because the Python bug tracker is indexed
> by Google.
>
> As for the rest, you're right that the current bug-tracker puts up
> barriers to people submitting comments and bugs. That's actually a good
> thing. The only thing worse than not enough information is too much
> information, and the current situation does a good job of discouraging
> the sorts of people who submit bad bug reports (e.g. duplicates of bug
> reports, bug reports for things fixed years ago, bug reports that are due
> to mistakes in their code, etc.).
>
>
>> For example
>> purposes, I'll use the following page:
>> http://docs.python.org/reference/lexical_analysis.html
>> Lets say the user is in section 2.1.3 Comments
>
> Disclaimer: python.org is down at the moment, so I can't check that page
> to see precisely what you're talking about.
>
>
>> Here's the scenario: The user wanted to include "#" in one of their
>> strings and the IDE kept interpreting it as a comment. But they really
>> need to use that character in the string. Eventually they find out that
>> they can escape the character in their string so that Python stops
>> thinking it is the beginning of a comment.
>
> Er, that would be a bug in the IDE, surely? Inside strings, # is an
> ordinary character with no special meaning.
>
>
>>>> s = "this is a string with an unescaped # in it"
>>>> s
> 'this is a string with an unescaped # in it'
>
>
> The Python docs are supposed to be about Python the language, not work-
> arounds for IDE bugs.
>
>
> [...]
>> Lets assume that Python experts all agree that
>> the docs should get updated with this gotcha (which as a newbie, they
>> are not sure that is a valid assumption and would probably just halt
>> in their quest to get the docs updated).
>
> Good.
>
> As a newbie, you SHOULD assume that anything you think is a bug is
> probably a bug in YOUR code, not Python, and the same goes for
> documentation bugs. If you don't understand something in the docs,
> chances are that it's a problem with you, not the docs. Your first port
> of call should be the tutor list, or here, and not to "fix" the docs by
> putting in noise that just gets in the way of the intended audience,
> namely experienced developers.
>
I assume I am misunderstanding you here and you meant something else?
Python is paraded as a good language for beginners. Is this a false
statement or a secondary objective? Or are the docs only meant for
experienced developers? That just doesn't sound right.


From invalid at invalid  Tue Aug 11 15:01:35 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:01:35 -0500
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References:  
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro ups.com>
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	
	<4A80472E.4090108@stoneleaf.us>
	
	
	<63f2b657-c646-4a69-9a05-1da5975bb6d2@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<7xfxbynpxd.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-11, Paul Rubin  wrote:
> r  writes:
>> Some say the tutorial is not meant for non-programmers, but for
>> programmers with no Python experience. So! How does that justify
>> obstruction of the tut? Why not present the same information in a way
>> both can easily understand? 
>
> I agree that a tutorial for non-programmers would be useful, but it's
> better to have it as a separate document.

There are plenty of docs aimed at non-programmers.  I've heard
this one recommended many times:

http://www.greenteapress.com/thinkpython/

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Am I having fun yet?
                                  at               
                               visi.com            


From maximilianbianco at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 15:03:09 2009
From: maximilianbianco at gmail.com (max bianco)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 15:03:09 -0400
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
In-Reply-To: 
References:  
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 2:36 PM, Kee Nethery wrote:
> As someone trying to learn the language I want to say that the tone on this
> list towards people who are trying to learn Python ?feels like it has become
> anti-newbies.
>
> Learning a new language is difficult enough without seeing other newbies
> getting shamed for not knowing everything there is to know about Python
> before asking their questions.

Well I have to say your right about the tone but using google before
you ask is not an unreasonable expectation. I have of course broken
this golden rule myself on mailing lists myself , however a response
like use google is totally acceptable to me.


From squishywaffle at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 15:06:41 2009
From: squishywaffle at gmail.com (Greg Taylor)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 12:06:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Networked Broadcast Messaging
References: <37ea826b-708d-48f4-a64a-42f58fec5325@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<889a2a1d-e791-479e-8e41-4387e1b258fd@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: <4dc5c63e-55d6-4758-b2e6-f405571347df@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 11, 3:00?pm, Kushal Kumaran 
wrote:
> You could use the socket module to broadcast. ?Using INADDR_BROADCAST
> as the destination should do it. ?I fail to recollect whether that
> will need root privileges...

Awesome, I think this is exactly what I'm looking for. Much
appreciated!

Greg


From invalid at invalid  Tue Aug 11 15:11:37 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:11:37 -0500
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<7xk51fgazf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
	
	
	
	<0006817d$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-11, max bianco  wrote:

> I assume I am misunderstanding you here and you meant something else?
> Python is paraded as a good language for beginners.

I believe it is a good language for beginners.

> Is this a false statement or a secondary objective?

Objective of what?

> Or are the docs only meant for experienced developers?

Some are, some aren't.  The "standard" docs (most of the docs
you can reach directly from http://www.python.org/doc/ --
including the tutorial) aren't intended to teach somebody how
to program and assume the reader has a basic grounding in
programming and language theory.

There are plenty of books and tutorials that are aimed at
teaching programming and Python at the same time.  You can find
some of via the links listed under "Additional documentation"
at http://www.python.org/doc/ -- particularly here:

 http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide/NonProgrammers

> That just doesn't sound right.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! My mind is making
                                  at               ashtrays in Dayton ...
                               visi.com            


From dotancohen at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 15:14:07 2009
From: dotancohen at gmail.com (Dotan Cohen)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:14:07 +0300
Subject: Scraping Wikipedia with Python
In-Reply-To: <6YidncRAiJ6SIxzXRVn_vwA@giganews.com>
References: 
	<4a81b6f0$0$1590$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	
	<6YidncRAiJ6SIxzXRVn_vwA@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <880dece00908111214y5def00afqe1e8849edd73d7e7@mail.gmail.com>

> Try reading a little there! Starting there I went to
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Creating_a_bot
>
> where I found a section on existing bots, comments on how the "scraping"
> is not what you want, and even a Python section with a link to something
> labelled ?PyWikipediaBot...
>

Thanks. I read the first bit of that page, but did not finish it.
Grepping it for Python led to to what I need.

Sorry for the noise.


-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il


From dmitrey.kroshko at scipy.org  Tue Aug 11 15:15:13 2009
From: dmitrey.kroshko at scipy.org (dmitrey)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 12:15:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: for key, value in dict.() - how to get? (which func)
Message-ID: 

hi all,
which method should I use to get iterator over (key, value) pairs for
Python dict, Python v 2.6 and above?

Of course I could use

for key in myDict.keys():
    value = myDict.values()
    # do something with the pair key, value

but searching each time for the value take some cputime that is
serious for the task involved

IIRC in python 2.5 I have something like keyvalues(), but I don't see
something like that in current dir(myDict).

Thank you in advance, D.


From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 15:23:46 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 12:23:46 -0700
Subject: better way?
In-Reply-To: <78a18b9b-f29e-432f-9fe4-8c250cb08edb@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <9899e909-509e-47d4-a8e5-f9d70e0b8827@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<78a18b9b-f29e-432f-9fe4-8c250cb08edb@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

IIRC Postgres has had ON DUPLICATE KEY UPDATE functionality longer than  
MySQL...

On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 11:45:50 -0700, Pet  wrote:

> On 11 Aug., 20:39, Kushal Kumaran 
> wrote:
>> On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 10:03 PM, someone  
>> wrote:
>> > Hello,
>>
>> > I'd like to make insert into db if record not exist otherwise update.
>> > to save typing list of columns in both statements I do following
>>
>> > 
>>
>> > is there better or more readable way to do it?
>>
>> Well, mysql, in particular, offers an "on duplicate key update" clause
>> that you can take a look at. ?Don't know about about other databases.
>>
>> --
>> kushal
>
> Oh, forgotten to mention. It's PostGres



-- 
Rami Chowdhury
"Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --  
Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)


From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 15:26:05 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 12:26:05 -0700
Subject: for key, value in dict.() - how to get? (which func)
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Hi Dmitrey,

I think what you're looking for is myDict.items(), or myDict.iteritems().

Cheers,
Rami

On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 12:15:13 -0700, dmitrey   
wrote:

> hi all,
> which method should I use to get iterator over (key, value) pairs for
> Python dict, Python v 2.6 and above?
>
> Of course I could use
>
> for key in myDict.keys():
>     value = myDict.values()
>     # do something with the pair key, value
>
> but searching each time for the value take some cputime that is
> serious for the task involved
>
> IIRC in python 2.5 I have something like keyvalues(), but I don't see
> something like that in current dir(myDict).
>
> Thank you in advance, D.



-- 
Rami Chowdhury
"Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --  
Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Tue Aug 11 15:30:00 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 12:30:00 -0700
Subject: Programming by Contract
In-Reply-To: <4A7A15CD.9090306@stoneleaf.us>
References: <4A7A15CD.9090306@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <4A81C6B8.7010605@stoneleaf.us>

Ethan Furman wrote:
> Greetings!
> 
> I have seen posts about the assert statement and PbC (or maybe it was 
> DbC), and I just took a very brief look at pycontract 
> (http://www.wayforward.net/pycontract/) and now I have at least one 
> question:  Is this basically another way of thinking about unit testing, 
> or is the idea of PbC more along the lines of *always* checking the 
> input/output of functions to ensure they are correct?  (*Contstant 
> vigilance!* as Prof Moody would say ;)
> 
> I know asserts can be turned off, so they obviously won't work for the 
> latter case, and having seen the sample of pycontract it seems it only 
> does its thing during debugging.
> 
> So is Design (Programming) by Contract a fancy way of saying "Document 
> your inputs/outputs!" or is there more to it?
> 
> ~Ethan~

Hmmm...

Well, from the (apparently) complete lack of interest, I shall take away 
the (better?) documentation ideas and unit testing ideas, and not worry 
about the rest.  :)

~Ethan~


From dmitrey.kroshko at scipy.org  Tue Aug 11 15:31:27 2009
From: dmitrey.kroshko at scipy.org (dmitrey)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 12:31:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: for key, value in dict.() - how to get? (which func)
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

Yes, thank you, items() is the correct approach, on the other hand I
have already get rid of the cycle.
Regards, D.

On Aug 11, 10:26?pm, "Rami Chowdhury" 
wrote:
> Hi Dmitrey,
>
> I think what you're looking for is myDict.items(), or myDict.iteritems().
>
> Cheers,
> Rami
>
> On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 12:15:13 -0700, dmitrey  ?
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > hi all,
> > which method should I use to get iterator over (key, value) pairs for
> > Python dict, Python v 2.6 and above?
>
> > Of course I could use
>
> > for key in myDict.keys():
> > ? ? value = myDict.values()
> > ? ? # do something with the pair key, value
>
> > but searching each time for the value take some cputime that is
> > serious for the task involved
>
> > IIRC in python 2.5 I have something like keyvalues(), but I don't see
> > something like that in current dir(myDict).
>
> > Thank you in advance, D.
>
> --
> Rami Chowdhury
> "Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" -- ?
> Hanlon's Razor
> 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)



From Brian.Mingus at colorado.edu  Tue Aug 11 15:39:50 2009
From: Brian.Mingus at colorado.edu (Brian)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:39:50 -0600
Subject: Scraping Wikipedia with Python
In-Reply-To: <880dece00908111129k525a0614td4c59a7a9371a7ba@mail.gmail.com>
References:  
	<4a81b6f0$0$1590$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<880dece00908111129k525a0614td4c59a7a9371a7ba@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9839a05c0908111239w64e507beud9492d58dee8f0a5@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 12:29 PM, Dotan Cohen  wrote:

> >    Wikipedia has an API for computer access.  See
> >
> >        http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API
> >
>
> Yes, I am aware of this as well. Does anyone know of a python class
> for easily interacting with it, or do I need to roll my own.
>
> --
> Dotan Cohen
>

https://mwclient.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/mwclient/trunk/mwclient/
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From petshmidt at googlemail.com  Tue Aug 11 15:40:22 2009
From: petshmidt at googlemail.com (Pet)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 12:40:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: better way?
References: <9899e909-509e-47d4-a8e5-f9d70e0b8827@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<78a18b9b-f29e-432f-9fe4-8c250cb08edb@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <7b9a2a26-3b6a-48b9-bb63-da05e24c9b39@c1g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On 11 Aug., 21:23, "Rami Chowdhury"  wrote:
> IIRC Postgres has had ON DUPLICATE KEY UPDATE functionality longer than ?
> MySQL...
>

Ok, I've completely failed here :)

Thanks, man

>
>
>
>
> On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 11:45:50 -0700, Pet  wrote:
> > On 11 Aug., 20:39, Kushal Kumaran 
> > wrote:
> >> On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 10:03 PM, someone ?
> >> wrote:
> >> > Hello,
>
> >> > I'd like to make insert into db if record not exist otherwise update.
> >> > to save typing list of columns in both statements I do following
>
> >> > 
>
> >> > is there better or more readable way to do it?
>
> >> Well, mysql, in particular, offers an "on duplicate key update" clause
> >> that you can take a look at. ?Don't know about about other databases.
>
> >> --
> >> kushal
>
> > Oh, forgotten to mention. It's PostGres
>
> --
> Rami Chowdhury
> "Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" -- ?
> Hanlon's Razor
> 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)



From mgi820 at motorola.com  Tue Aug 11 15:44:49 2009
From: mgi820 at motorola.com (Gary Duzan)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 19:44:49 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: for key, value in dict.() - how to get? (which func)
References: 
Message-ID: 

In article ,
dmitrey   wrote:
>hi all,
>which method should I use to get iterator over (key, value) pairs for
>Python dict, Python v 2.6 and above?

   dict.iteritems()

>>> import sys
>>> for (key, value) in sys.modules.iteritems(): print key, value

					Gary Duzan
					Motorola H&NM




From pacificik at warnell.uga.edu  Tue Aug 11 15:47:47 2009
From: pacificik at warnell.uga.edu (Krishna Pacifici)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 15:47:47 -0400
Subject: adding multiple new values to the same key in a dictionary
Message-ID: <4A8192A30200008C00014AB9@redhorse.forestry.uga.edu>

Hi,
I want to be able to add multiple new values to a key in a dictionary.

I have tried the following:

sec_dict_clean=
{88: [87, 89, 78, 98], 58: [57, 59, 48, 68], 69: [79], 95: [94, 96, 85]}

for i in range(len(sec_dict_clean.values())):
    for j in range(len(sec_dict_clean.values()[i])):
        sec_dict_clean.setdefault(key,[]).append(blocks[sec_dict_clean.values()[i][j]].abundance)

where blocks[...].abundance gives me a single value from an object,

but this gives me the following:

sec_dict_clean=
{88: [87, 89, 78, 98], 58: [57, 59, 48, 68], 69: [79], 95: [94, 96, 85, 4, 12, 11, 6, 9, 12, 11, 7, 10, 10, 12, 9, 6, 12, 15, 9, 8, 12, 15, 12, 12]}

instead I want each abundance (starts with 4, 12...) to be associated with each of the values so that it would look like this:

sec_dict_clean=
{88: ([87, 89, 78, 98], [4,12,11,6]), 58: ([57, 59, 48, 68], [9,12,11,7]), 69: ([79], [10])...}

You can see there are several errors here (I have more things being appended than there are values in the dictionary), but I really just want to know how to add multiple values to the same key in a dictionary.

Thanks for any help,
Krishna


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From rt8396 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 15:55:27 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 12:55:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<7xk51fgazf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
	
	
	
	<0006817d$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> 
	
	
Message-ID: <6790fee9-3374-4fd4-86d5-e7bfa0439ea5@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

Ok people follow me here. Open your winders help file and click the
"Tutorial" link. What is this FLUFF doing here!?!?! Where is the damn
index? Where is the damn tutorial? I want to learn Python not read the
HISTORY OF THE WORLD.

Upon clicking the "Tutorial" link pre 2.6, a nice menu was placed
before your eyes, WHERE IS IT!?!??? Good thing i know the language or
i would have given up already!!!!


From rcdailey at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 16:08:19 2009
From: rcdailey at gmail.com (Robert Dailey)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:08:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
Message-ID: 

Hey guys. Being a C++ programmer, I like to keep variable definitions
close to the location in which they will be used. This improves
readability in many ways. However, when I have a multi-line string
definition at function level scope, things get tricky because of the
indents. In this case indents are serving two purposes: For syntax and
actual text output. The tabs for function scope should not be included
in the contents of the string. Below is the code I am trying to
improve. Notice how it looks ugly/unreadable because of the way the
string contents are shifted all the way to the left edge of the
document. This breaks the flow of scope. Would you guys solve this
problem by moving failMsg into global scope? Perhaps through some
other type of syntax?

Help is appreciated!

def RunCommand( commandList ):
   commandString =
   print( 'Running Command:',  )
   cmd = subprocess.Popen( commandList )
   returnCode = cmd.wait()
   if returnCode:
      failMsg = '''\
*************************************************
The following command returned exit code [{:#x}].
This represents failure of some form. Please review
the command output for more details on the issue.
------------
{}
*************************************************
'''
      commandString = ' '.join( commandList )
      raise CommandFailure( failMsg.format( returnCode,
commandString ) )


From matthew at woodcraft.me.uk  Tue Aug 11 16:10:03 2009
From: matthew at woodcraft.me.uk (Matthew Woodcraft)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 20:10:03 GMT
Subject: better way?
References: <9899e909-509e-47d4-a8e5-f9d70e0b8827@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<78a18b9b-f29e-432f-9fe4-8c250cb08edb@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <87skfyjen8.fsf@golux.woodcraft.me.uk>

"Rami Chowdhury"  writes:

> IIRC Postgres has had ON DUPLICATE KEY UPDATE functionality longer than
> MySQL...

PostgreSQL does not have ON DUPLICATE KEY UPDATE.

The SQL standard way to do what the OP wants is MERGE. PostgreSQL
doesn't have that either.

-M-


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Aug 11 16:12:29 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:12:29 +0100
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
In-Reply-To: <6790fee9-3374-4fd4-86d5-e7bfa0439ea5@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: 	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>	<7xk51fgazf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>					<0006817d$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
		
	<6790fee9-3374-4fd4-86d5-e7bfa0439ea5@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

r wrote:
> Ok people follow me here. Open your winders help file and click the
> "Tutorial" link. What is this FLUFF doing here!?!?! Where is the damn
> index? Where is the damn tutorial? I want to learn Python not read the
> HISTORY OF THE WORLD.
> 
> Upon clicking the "Tutorial" link pre 2.6, a nice menu was placed
> before your eyes, WHERE IS IT!?!??? Good thing i know the language or
> i would have given up already!!!!
As I keep on repeating, my version works perfectly.  Perhaps this is 
because I have a computing IQ of approximately 2**32, so realised that 
something was wrong, went here and downloaded the corrected version of 
the file, which has presumably been available for months!!!!!

http://www.python.org/download/releases/2.6.2/

And you want newbies let loose on the python docs.  As good ole Santa 
would say, ho, ho, ho!
-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From rcdailey at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 16:16:58 2009
From: rcdailey at gmail.com (Robert Dailey)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:16:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
Message-ID: <30eb6e66-1d5c-4a76-b80d-54d11bafbdb3@h31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 11, 3:08?pm, Robert Dailey  wrote:
> Hey guys. Being a C++ programmer, I like to keep variable definitions
> close to the location in which they will be used. This improves
> readability in many ways. However, when I have a multi-line string
> definition at function level scope, things get tricky because of the
> indents. In this case indents are serving two purposes: For syntax and
> actual text output. The tabs for function scope should not be included
> in the contents of the string. Below is the code I am trying to
> improve. Notice how it looks ugly/unreadable because of the way the
> string contents are shifted all the way to the left edge of the
> document. This breaks the flow of scope. Would you guys solve this
> problem by moving failMsg into global scope? Perhaps through some
> other type of syntax?
>
> Help is appreciated!
>
> def RunCommand( commandList ):
> ? ?commandString =
> ? ?print( 'Running Command:', ?)
> ? ?cmd = subprocess.Popen( commandList )
> ? ?returnCode = cmd.wait()
> ? ?if returnCode:
> ? ? ? failMsg = '''\
> *************************************************
> The following command returned exit code [{:#x}].
> This represents failure of some form. Please review
> the command output for more details on the issue.
> ------------
> {}
> *************************************************
> '''
> ? ? ? commandString = ' '.join( commandList )
> ? ? ? raise CommandFailure( failMsg.format( returnCode,
> commandString ) )

And yes, I recognize there are syntax errors. Ignore those for now.


From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 16:19:00 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:19:00 -0700
Subject: better way?
In-Reply-To: <87skfyjen8.fsf@golux.woodcraft.me.uk>
References: <9899e909-509e-47d4-a8e5-f9d70e0b8827@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<78a18b9b-f29e-432f-9fe4-8c250cb08edb@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<87skfyjen8.fsf@golux.woodcraft.me.uk>
Message-ID: 

Ah, my apologies, I must have been getting it confused with ON UPDATE  
[things]. Thanks for correcting me.

On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:10:03 -0700, Matthew Woodcraft  
 wrote:

> "Rami Chowdhury"  writes:
>
>> IIRC Postgres has had ON DUPLICATE KEY UPDATE functionality longer than
>> MySQL...
>
> PostgreSQL does not have ON DUPLICATE KEY UPDATE.
>
> The SQL standard way to do what the OP wants is MERGE. PostgreSQL
> doesn't have that either.
>
> -M-



-- 
Rami Chowdhury
"Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --  
Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)


From cmalmqui at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 16:20:35 2009
From: cmalmqui at gmail.com (cmalmqui)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:20:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ElementTree - Howto access text within XML tag element...
References: <1ad8dac1-8fff-493a-a197-d847e7b6a761@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<7ecm77F2fbf71U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 11, 9:51?am, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
> cmalmqui schrieb:
> > Hi,
>
> > I am writing on a small XML parser and are currently stuck as I am not
> > able to get the whole element name in ElementTree.
>
> > Please see the below example where "print root[0][0]" returns
> > ""
>
> > Is there a way to get hold of the "Running" string in the tag using
> > elementTree?
>
> > 
> > ? ? 
> > ? ? ? 2009-07-10T14:48:00Z
> > ? ? ? 
> > ? ? ? .........
>
> > For those of you that know how to program XML I have another
> > question:
> > I am currently "hardcoding" my XML parser using brackets, is this a
> > good approach or should I build it using a "search on tag" approach.
>
> What do you mean by that - hardcoding by brackets?
>
> Diez

Indeed, my current approach has been to hardcode the XML parser using
brackets. Is there a more elegant way?

I am parsing a garmin xml file from a handheld GPS and as you can see
in the below script, I am hardcoding each node:

import xml.etree.cElementTree as etree

def gettext(elem):
    text = elem.text or ""
    for e in elem:
        text += gettext(e)
        if e.tail:
            text += e.tail
    return text

tree = etree.parse('10_07_2009 16_48_00_history.tcx')
root = tree.getroot()

elem = root[0][0]

# ID Tag
print "type of exercise    : " + elem.get("Sport")
print "excercise starttime : " + gettext(elem[0])

# iterate over all laps
for i in range(1, len(elem)-1):

    # LAP TAG
    print "\nlap number          : " + str(i)
    print "lap start time      : " + str(elem[i].get("StartTime"))
    print "lap duration (s)    : " + gettext(elem[i][0])
    print "lap length (m)      : " + gettext(elem[i][1])
    print "max speed (km/h)    : " + gettext(elem[i][2])
    print "number of calories  : " + gettext(elem[i][3])
    print "average heartbeat   : " + gettext(elem[i][4][0])
    print "max     heartbeat   : " + gettext(elem[i][5][0])
    print "number of records   : " + str(len(elem[i][8])-1)
    for j in range(1, len(elem[i][8])-1):
        time = gettext(elem[i][8][j][0])    #time
        lat  = gettext(elem[i][8][j][1][0]) #lat
        lon  = gettext(elem[i][8][j][1][1]) #lon
        alt  = gettext(elem[i][8][j][2])    #alt
        dist = gettext(elem[i][8][j][3])    #distance from start
        bpm  = gettext(elem[i][8][j][4][0]) #beats per minute
        #print time + " " + lat + " " + lon + " " + alt + " " + dist +
" " + bpm

print "\nReceiver Info       : " + gettext(elem[len(elem)-1][0])


From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 16:20:52 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:20:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<3611ca55-79a6-4336-9041-07d0893789f7@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
	<0447e8a2-508d-45b2-8d15-da0cc2a56b5f@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	
	 
	<0291a21a$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <8152546e-1f6f-4ea5-9b10-e1d9b5ffdab8@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 11, 2:00?pm, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:

> > test.cpp:1:1: warning: unknown escape sequence '\y'
>
> Isn't that a warning, not a fatal error? So what does temp contain?

My "Annotated C++ Reference Manual" is packed, and surprisingly in
Stroustrup's Third Edition, there is no mention of the issue in the
entire 1,000 pages. But Microsoft to the rescue:

     If you want a backslash character to appear within a string,
     you must type two backslashes (\\)

(From http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/69ze775t.aspx)

The question of what any specific C++ does if you ignore the warning
is irrelevant, as such behavior in C++ is almost *always* undefined.
Hence the warning.

|>ouglas


From cmalmqui at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 16:21:20 2009
From: cmalmqui at gmail.com (cmalmqui)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:21:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ElementTree - Howto access text within XML tag element...
References: <1ad8dac1-8fff-493a-a197-d847e7b6a761@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <512cde86-d758-48b7-b474-eac48ef56c54@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 11, 9:13?am, Ned Deily  wrote:
> In article
> <1ad8dac1-8fff-493a-a197-d847e7b6a... at c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>,
>
> ?cmalmqui  wrote:
> > I am writing on a small XML parser and are currently stuck as I am not
> > able to get the whole element name in ElementTree.
>
> > Please see the below example where "print root[0][0]" returns
> > ""
>
> > Is there a way to get hold of the "Running" string in the tag using
> > elementTree?
>
> > 
> > ? ? 
> > ? ? ? 2009-07-10T14:48:00Z
> > ? ? ? 
> > ? ? ? .........
>
> "Running" is the value of the "Sport" attribute of the "Activity"
> element. ?The documentation for the Element interface lists several ways
> to access element attributes; in your example,
>
> >>> elem = root[0][0]
> >>> elem.get("Sport")
> 'Running'
> >>> elem.attrib
>
> {'Sport': 'Running'}>>> elem.items()
>
> [('Sport', 'Running')]
>
> Seehttp://docs.python.org/library/xml.etree.elementtree.html
>
> --
> ?Ned Deily,
> ?n... at acm.org

Excellent!
Thanks!
The XML magic is getting there slowly...


From chris at simplistix.co.uk  Tue Aug 11 16:25:47 2009
From: chris at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:25:47 +0100
Subject: httplib incredibly slow :-(
Message-ID: <4A81D3CB.7080209@simplistix.co.uk>

Hi All,

I'm using the following script to download a 150Mb file:

from base64 import encodestring
from httplib import HTTPConnection
from datetime import datetime

conn = HTTPSConnection('localhost')
headers = {}
auth = 'Basic '+encodestring('username:password').strip()
headers['Authorization']=auth
t = datetime.now()
print t
conn.request('GET','/somefile.zip',None,headers)
print 'request:',datetime.now()-t
response = conn.getresponse()
print 'response:',datetime.now()-t
data = response.read()
print 'read:',datetime.now()-t

The output shows it takes over 20 minutes to do this.
However, this is on a local network, and downloading the same file in IE 
takes under 3 seconds!

I saw this issue:

http://bugs.python.org/issue2576

I tried changing the buffer size to 4096 in a subclass as the issue 
suggested, but I didn't see the reported speed improvement.
I'm using Python 2.6.2.

Does anyone know of an alternative library for creating http requests 
and getting their responses that's faster but hopefully has a similar 
interface?

Chris

-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting
            - http://www.simplistix.co.uk


From rcdailey at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 16:28:57 2009
From: rcdailey at gmail.com (Robert Dailey)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:28:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bug in format specification in Python 3?
Message-ID: 

Hello,

According to the Python 3.1 documentation, I can have a format
specification like so:

print( 'This is a hex number: {:#08x}'.format( 4 ) )

This will print:

This is a hex number: 0x000004

I notice that the '0x' portion is counted in the width, which was
specified as 8. This seems wrong to me. Is this by design? If so, why?
I expect that the width portion to only apply to the input + padding
only. I don't consider the '0x' portion part of the padding. But maybe
it is...


From http  Tue Aug 11 16:31:34 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 11 Aug 2009 13:31:34 -0700
Subject: Scraping Wikipedia with Python
References: 
	<4a81b6f0$0$1590$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	
	<6YidncRAiJ6SIxzXRVn_vwA@giganews.com>
	
Message-ID: <7xd472hz2x.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Dotan Cohen  writes:
> Thanks. I read the first bit of that page, but did not finish it.
> Grepping it for Python led to to what I need.

maybe you want dbpedia.


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Aug 11 16:32:56 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:32:56 +0100
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
In-Reply-To: <30eb6e66-1d5c-4a76-b80d-54d11bafbdb3@h31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<30eb6e66-1d5c-4a76-b80d-54d11bafbdb3@h31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Robert Dailey wrote:
> On Aug 11, 3:08 pm, Robert Dailey  wrote:
>> Hey guys. Being a C++ programmer, I like to keep variable definitions
>> close to the location in which they will be used. This improves
>> readability in many ways. However, when I have a multi-line string
>> definition at function level scope, things get tricky because of the
>> indents. In this case indents are serving two purposes: For syntax and
>> actual text output. The tabs for function scope should not be included
>> in the contents of the string. Below is the code I am trying to
>> improve. Notice how it looks ugly/unreadable because of the way the
>> string contents are shifted all the way to the left edge of the
>> document. This breaks the flow of scope. Would you guys solve this
>> problem by moving failMsg into global scope? Perhaps through some
>> other type of syntax?
>>
>> Help is appreciated!
>>
>> def RunCommand( commandList ):
>>    commandString =
>>    print( 'Running Command:',  )
>>    cmd = subprocess.Popen( commandList )
>>    returnCode = cmd.wait()
>>    if returnCode:
>>       failMsg = '''\
>> *************************************************
>> The following command returned exit code [{:#x}].
>> This represents failure of some form. Please review
>> the command output for more details on the issue.
>> ------------
>> {}
>> *************************************************
>> '''
>>       commandString = ' '.join( commandList )
>>       raise CommandFailure( failMsg.format( returnCode,
>> commandString ) )
> 
> And yes, I recognize there are syntax errors. Ignore those for now.
For starters take a look at http://tinyurl.com/o2o8r8 , just about every 
combination of string concatenation going there.  I assume that one of 
these will let you leave failMsg where it belongs.

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From rt8396 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 16:36:18 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:36:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<7xk51fgazf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
	
	
	
	<0006817d$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> 
	
	 
	<6790fee9-3374-4fd4-86d5-e7bfa0439ea5@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: <875f7a34-b270-4a8c-835b-790e19c12afa@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

Ah Ha! the docs are broken and i was right all along! Are the good
folks at Python dev rolling a new installer as we speak, or we must
wait for new version?


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Tue Aug 11 16:38:37 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:38:37 -0700
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
In-Reply-To: <8152546e-1f6f-4ea5-9b10-e1d9b5ffdab8@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>			<3611ca55-79a6-4336-9041-07d0893789f7@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>		<0447e8a2-508d-45b2-8d15-da0cc2a56b5f@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>		
	<0291a21a$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<8152546e-1f6f-4ea5-9b10-e1d9b5ffdab8@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A81D6CD.1060903@stoneleaf.us>

Douglas Alan wrote:
> On Aug 11, 2:00 pm, Steven D'Aprano  cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> 
> 
>>>test.cpp:1:1: warning: unknown escape sequence '\y'
>>
>>Isn't that a warning, not a fatal error? So what does temp contain?
> 
> 
> My "Annotated C++ Reference Manual" is packed, and surprisingly in
> Stroustrup's Third Edition, there is no mention of the issue in the
> entire 1,000 pages. But Microsoft to the rescue:
> 
>      If you want a backslash character to appear within a string,
>      you must type two backslashes (\\)
> 
> (From http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/69ze775t.aspx)
> 
> The question of what any specific C++ does if you ignore the warning
> is irrelevant, as such behavior in C++ is almost *always* undefined.
> Hence the warning.
> 
> |>ouglas

Almost always undefined?  Whereas with Python, and some memorization or 
a small table/list nearby, you can easily *know* what you will get.

Mind you, I'm not really vested in how Python *should* handle 
backslashes one way or the other, but I am glad it has rules that it 
follows for consitent results, and I don't have to break out a byte-code 
editor to find out what's in my string literal.

~Ethan~


From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Tue Aug 11 16:40:24 2009
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (Bearophile)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:40:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
Message-ID: <5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>

Robert Dailey:
> This breaks the flow of scope. Would you guys solve this
> problem by moving failMsg into global scope?
> Perhaps through some other type of syntax?

There are gals too here.
This may help:
http://docs.python.org/library/textwrap.html#textwrap.dedent

Bye,
bearophile


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Aug 11 16:46:12 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:46:12 +0100
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
In-Reply-To: <875f7a34-b270-4a8c-835b-790e19c12afa@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
References: 	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>	<7xk51fgazf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>					<0006817d$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
		
	<6790fee9-3374-4fd4-86d5-e7bfa0439ea5@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	
	<875f7a34-b270-4a8c-835b-790e19c12afa@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

r wrote:
> Ah Ha! the docs are broken and i was right all along! Are the good
> folks at Python dev rolling a new installer as we speak, or we must
> wait for new version?
As I pointed out a few minutes ago thicko, the new version has been 
available for months.

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From rays at blue-cove.com  Tue Aug 11 16:52:04 2009
From: rays at blue-cove.com (RJ)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:52:04 -0700
Subject: New 2.6 and wx install => DLL load failed: The specified
	procedure could not be found
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20090811134337.04a210d8@blue-cove.com>

I just installed python-2.6.2.msi from Python.org and 
wxPython2.8-win32-ansi-2.8.10.1-py26.exe and now can't import this 
wx. (I had 2.4, but uninstalled)
This reminds me of a basic question I had before: what are the 
compilers used for the Win32 binaries? Is this a compiler 
compatibility issue? a wx bug?

C:\projects>python
Python 2.6.2 (r262:71605, Apr 14 2009, 22:40:02) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)] on
win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> import wx
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "", line 1, in 
   File 
"C:\Python26\lib\site-packages\wx-2.8-msw-ansi\wx\__init__.py", line 45,
in 
     from wx._core import *
   File "C:\Python26\lib\site-packages\wx-2.8-msw-ansi\wx\_core.py", 
line 4, in <
module>
     import _core_
ImportError: DLL load failed: The specified procedure could not be found.
 >>> 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

From rcdailey at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 16:52:34 2009
From: rcdailey at gmail.com (Robert Dailey)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:52:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 11, 3:40?pm, Bearophile  wrote:
> Robert Dailey:
>
> > This breaks the flow of scope. Would you guys solve this
> > problem by moving failMsg into global scope?
> > Perhaps through some other type of syntax?
>
> There are gals too here.
> This may help:http://docs.python.org/library/textwrap.html#textwrap.dedent
>
> Bye,
> bearophile

It's a figure of speech. And besides, why would I want programming
advice from a woman? lol. Thanks for the help.


From charles at declareSub.com  Tue Aug 11 16:53:41 2009
From: charles at declareSub.com (Charles Yeomans)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 16:53:41 -0400
Subject: Programming by Contract
In-Reply-To: <4A81C6B8.7010605@stoneleaf.us>
References: <4A7A15CD.9090306@stoneleaf.us> <4A81C6B8.7010605@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <18F0FD2E-7C01-4B1C-85DF-28433C23D886@declareSub.com>


On Aug 11, 2009, at 3:30 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:

> Ethan Furman wrote:
>> Greetings!
>> I have seen posts about the assert statement and PbC (or maybe it  
>> was DbC), and I just took a very brief look at pycontract (http://www.wayforward.net/pycontract/ 
>> ) and now I have at least one question:  Is this basically another  
>> way of thinking about unit testing, or is the idea of PbC more  
>> along the lines of *always* checking the input/output of functions  
>> to ensure they are correct?  (*Contstant vigilance!* as Prof Moody  
>> would say ;)
>> I know asserts can be turned off, so they obviously won't work for  
>> the latter case, and having seen the sample of pycontract it seems  
>> it only does its thing during debugging.
>> So is Design (Programming) by Contract a fancy way of saying  
>> "Document your inputs/outputs!" or is there more to it?
>> ~Ethan~
>
> Hmmm...
>
> Well, from the (apparently) complete lack of interest, I shall take  
> away the (better?) documentation ideas and unit testing ideas, and  
> not worry about the rest.  :)
>
>




Design by contract is complementary to unit testing (I notice that the  
author of PEP 316 appears confused about this).  DbC is, roughly  
speaking, about explicit allocation of responsibility.  Consider this  
contrived example.

def foo(s):
     require(s is not None)
     //code
     ensure(hasattr(returnValue, '__iter__'))


The require condition tells you that it's the caller's responsibility  
to pass a non-nil argument to foo.  The ensure condition is a  
guarantee that foo will return something suitable for iteration, if  
the precondition in the require condition is satisfied.  These  
conditions can be enforced at runtime, but may not be, for reasons of  
performance.

DbC is in fact about not *always* checking the input/output of  
functions; on the contrary, Bertrand Meyer, the inventor of DbC,  
claims that DbC allows one to eliminate such redundancy, and the  
resulting overhead.

Charles Yeomans


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Tue Aug 11 17:04:43 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:04:43 +0100
Subject: Bug in format specification in Python 3?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A81DCEB.8020805@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Robert Dailey wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> According to the Python 3.1 documentation, I can have a format
> specification like so:
> 
> print( 'This is a hex number: {:#08x}'.format( 4 ) )
> 
> This will print:
> 
> This is a hex number: 0x000004
> 
> I notice that the '0x' portion is counted in the width, which was
> specified as 8. This seems wrong to me. Is this by design? If so, why?
> I expect that the width portion to only apply to the input + padding
> only. I don't consider the '0x' portion part of the padding. But maybe
> it is...

The width portion is the width of what is produced by the specification.
The '#' tells it to add '0x', so that's part of what's produced. If you
don't want the '0x' to be counted then don't include '#' in the
specification. It makes perfect sense! :-)


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Tue Aug 11 17:11:57 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:11:57 +0100
Subject: dictionary help
In-Reply-To: <4A816A400200008C00014A70@redhorse.forestry.uga.edu>
References: <4A816A400200008C00014A70@redhorse.forestry.uga.edu>
Message-ID: <4A81DE9D.1000505@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Krishna Pacifici wrote:
> Wow, thanks MRAB and Simon, you guys are good.
> 
> I guess I will go ahead and ask the next question that has also stumped 
> me for awhile now.
> 
> So basically I need to loop through the values in the new dictionary and 
> append attributes of a class object.  Each of the values (and keys) 
> represent a block in a grid with a specific location (e.g. 35 is the 
> block in row 3 col 5) and each block is an object with several 
> attributes associated with it.  I want to call that block and append two 
> separate attributes to the dictionary within that same key.
> 
> So again it would look something like this:
> 
> block 35 has 2 attributes, say a and b, a=2, b=5
> block 37 has a=1, b=3
> block 46 has a=3, b=8
> 
> the two attributes come from two different definitions within the class 
> statement,
> def detections
> ...
> return a
> 
> def abundance
> ...
> return b
> 
> so I would want to append to key 36 those two attributes for each block 
> so that the resulting dictionary item would look like this:
>                          a           b  
> {36:[35,37,46], [2,1,3], [5,3,8] ...}
> 
That doesn't look like a dictionary. Perhaps want you want is for the
value to be a list of lists:

     {36: [[35,37,46], [2,1,3], [5,3,8]] ...}

although you'd have parallel lists, ie a list of blocks, a list of 'a',
and a list of 'b'. A better format might be to keep a block's attributes
with the block itself.

     {36: [[35,2,5], [37,1,3], [46,3,8]] ...}

> Any help with this would be greatly appreciated.  And thank you so much 
> for all of your help thus far, I'm still pretty new to python and am 
> enjoying all of the flexibility associated with a scripting and 
> programming language.
> 
[snip]



From guthrie at mum.edu  Tue Aug 11 17:12:01 2009
From: guthrie at mum.edu (guthrie)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:12:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: run all scripts in sub-directory as subroutines?
Message-ID: 

I want to have a program which will form a list of all *.py scripts in
a sub-directory, and then call some standard messages on them. So I
can add a new data source modularly by just dropping a new file into
the sources directory with the appropriate methods in it.

For example:

path = sys.path[0]
print "Starting Directory:: " + path

getDir=path + "\Sources"            # point to directory of data
sources
for name in os.listdir(getDir):     # run collection from each source
    src = imp.load_source("data",getDir,open(getDir+"\\"+name, 'rb'))
    src.getData()
    src.doGraph()

This works fine, but in the sub-modules the sys.path appropriately
returns the same as from the parent, I want them to know their own
file names. How?? I can pass it to them, but wondered if there is a
more self-sufficient way for a module to know from where it was
invoked.


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Tue Aug 11 17:20:18 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:20:18 -0700
Subject: Programming by Contract
In-Reply-To: <18F0FD2E-7C01-4B1C-85DF-28433C23D886@declareSub.com>
References: <4A7A15CD.9090306@stoneleaf.us> <4A81C6B8.7010605@stoneleaf.us>
	<18F0FD2E-7C01-4B1C-85DF-28433C23D886@declareSub.com>
Message-ID: <4A81E092.1070303@stoneleaf.us>

Charles Yeomans wrote:
> 
> On Aug 11, 2009, at 3:30 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
> 
>> Ethan Furman wrote:
>>
>>> Greetings!
>>> I have seen posts about the assert statement and PbC (or maybe it  
>>> was DbC), and I just took a very brief look at pycontract 
>>> (http://www.wayforward.net/pycontract/ ) and now I have at least one 
>>> question:  Is this basically another  way of thinking about unit 
>>> testing, or is the idea of PbC more  along the lines of *always* 
>>> checking the input/output of functions  to ensure they are correct?  
>>> (*Contstant vigilance!* as Prof Moody  would say ;)
>>> I know asserts can be turned off, so they obviously won't work for  
>>> the latter case, and having seen the sample of pycontract it seems  
>>> it only does its thing during debugging.
>>> So is Design (Programming) by Contract a fancy way of saying  
>>> "Document your inputs/outputs!" or is there more to it?
>>> ~Ethan~
>>
>>
>> Hmmm...
>>
>> Well, from the (apparently) complete lack of interest, I shall take  
>> away the (better?) documentation ideas and unit testing ideas, and  
>> not worry about the rest.  :)
>>
>>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Design by contract is complementary to unit testing (I notice that the  
> author of PEP 316 appears confused about this).  DbC is, roughly  
> speaking, about explicit allocation of responsibility.  Consider this  
> contrived example.
> 
> def foo(s):
>     require(s is not None)
>     //code
>     ensure(hasattr(returnValue, '__iter__'))
> 
> 
> The require condition tells you that it's the caller's responsibility  
> to pass a non-nil argument to foo.  The ensure condition is a  guarantee 
> that foo will return something suitable for iteration, if  the 
> precondition in the require condition is satisfied.  These  conditions 
> can be enforced at runtime, but may not be, for reasons of  performance.
> 
> DbC is in fact about not *always* checking the input/output of  
> functions; on the contrary, Bertrand Meyer, the inventor of DbC,  claims 
> that DbC allows one to eliminate such redundancy, and the  resulting 
> overhead.
> 
> Charles Yeomans

Many thanks!

So if I understand -- Python's EAFP fits well with DbC, as DbC seems 
well suited to say, "This is your responsibility, and this is mine," 
stated in programming terms (who needs comments? ;)  Combined with unit 
testing (which should be easier to design correctly given the DbC code), 
healthy code seems more attainable.

Interesting.  Thank you for the information.

~Ethan~


From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 17:29:43 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:29:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<3611ca55-79a6-4336-9041-07d0893789f7@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
	<0447e8a2-508d-45b2-8d15-da0cc2a56b5f@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <494d80f1-0b47-468c-bdd9-7a087f6d915c@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> Because the cost isn't zero. Needing to write \\ in a string
> literal when you want \ is a cost,

I need to preface this entire post with the fact that I've
already used ALL of the arguments that you've provided on my
friend before I ever even came here with the topic, and my
own arguments on why Python can be considered to be doing
the right thing on this issue didn't even convince ME, much
less him. When I can't even convince myself with an argument
I'm making, then you know there's a problem with it!

Now back the our regularly scheduled debate:

I think that the total cost of all of that extra typing for
all the Python programmers in the entire world is now
significantly less than the time it took to have this
debate. Which would have never happened if Python did things
the right way on this issue to begin with. Meaning that
we're now at LESS than zero cost for doing things right!

And we haven't even yet included all the useless heat that
is going to be generated during code reviews and in-house coding
standard debates.

That's why I stand by Python's motto:

   THERE SHOULD BE ONE-- AND PREFERABLY ONLY ONE --OBVIOUS
   WAY TO DO IT.

> and having to read \\ in source code and mentally
> translate that to \ is also a cost.

For me that has no mental cost. What does have a mental cost
is remembering whether "\b" is an "unrecognized escape
sequence" or not.

> By all means argue that it's a cost that is worth paying,
> but please stop pretending that it's not a cost.

I'm not "pretending". I'm pwning you with logic and common
sense!

> Having to remember that \n is a "special" escape and \y
> isn't is also a cost, but that's a cost you pay in C++ too,
> if you want your code to compile.

Ummm, no I don't! I just always use "\\" when I want a
backslash to appear, and I only think about the more obscure
escape sequences if I actually need them, or some code that
I am reading has used them.

> By the way, you've stated repeatedly that \y will compile
> with a warning in g++. So what precisely do you get if you
> ignore the warning?

A program with undefined behavior. That's typically what a
warning means from a C++ compiler. (Sometimes it means
use of a deprecated feature, though.)

> What do other C++ compilers do?

The Microsoft compilers also consider it to be incorrect
code, as I documented in a different post.

> Apart from the lack of warning, what actually is the
> difference between Python's behavior and C++'s behavior?

That question makes just about as much sense as, "Apart
from the lack of a fatal error, what actually is the
difference between Python's behavior and C++'s?"

Sure, warnings aren't fatal errors, but if you ignore them,
then you are almost always doing something very
wrong. (Unless you're building legacy code.)

> > Furthermore, Python's strategy here is SPECIFICALLY
> > DESIGNED, according to the reference manual to catch
> > bugs. I.e., from the original posting on this issue:
>
> >      Unlike Standard C, all unrecognized escape sequences
> >      are left in the string unchanged, i.e., the backslash
> >      is left in the string.  (This behavior is useful when
> >      debugging: if an escape sequence is mistyped, the
> >      resulting output is more easily recognized as
> >      broken.)
>
> You need to work on your reading comprehension. It doesn't
> say anything about the motivation for this behaviour, let
> alone that it was "SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED" to catch bugs. It
> says it is useful for debugging. My shoe is useful for
> squashing poisonous spiders, but it wasn't designed as a
> poisonous-spider squashing device.

As I have a BS from MIT in BS-ology, I can readily set aside
your aspersions to my intellect, and point out the gross
errors of your ways: Natural language does not work the way
you claim. It is is much more practical, implicit, and
elliptical.

More specifically, if your shoe came with a reference manual
claiming that it was useful for squashing poisonous spiders,
then you may now validly assume poisonous spider squashing
was a design requirement of the shoe. (Or at least it has
become one, even if ipso facto.) Furthermore, if it turns out
that the shoe is deficient at poisonous spider squashing,
and consequently causes you to get bitten by a poisonous
spider, then you now have grounds for a lawsuit.

> > Because in the former cases it can't catch the the bug,
> > and in the latter case, it can.
>
> I'm not convinced this is a bug that needs catching, but if
> you think it is, then that's a reasonable argument.

All my arguments are reasonable.

> >> Perhaps it can catch *some* errors of that type, but
> >> only at the cost of extra effort required to defeat the
> >> compiler (forcing the programmer to type \\d to prevent
> >> the compiler complaining about \d). I don't think the
> >> benefit is worth the cost. You and your friend do. Who
> >> is to say you're right?
>
> > Well, Bjarne Stroustrup, for one.
>
> Then let him design his own language *wink*

Oh, I'm not sure that's such a good idea. He might come up
with a language as crazy as C++.

> >> In C++, if you see an escape you don't recognize, do you
> >> care?
>
> > Yes, of course I do. If I need to know what the program
> > does.
>
> Precisely the same as in Python.

Not so at all!

In C++ I only have to run for the manual only when someone
actually puts a *real* escape sequence in their code. With
Python, I have to run for the manual (or at least the REPL),
every time some lame-brained person who thinks they should be
allowed near a keyboard programs using "unrecognized escape
sequences" because they can't be bothered to hit the "\" key
twice.

> Seems to me that the answer is "It's not worse than C++,
> it's the same" -- in both cases, you have to memorize the
> "special" escape sequences, and in both cases, if you see
> an escape you don't recognize, you need to look it up.

The answer is that in this particular case, C++ causes me
far fewer woes! And if C++ is causing me fewer woes than
Language X, then you've got to know that Language X has a
problem.

> I disagree with your sense of aesthetics. I think that
> having to write \\y when I want \y just to satisfy a
> bondage-and-discipline compiler is ugly. That's not to deny
> that B&D isn't useful on occasion, but in this case I
> believe the benefit is negligible, and so even a tiny cost
> is not worth the pain.

EXPLICIT IS BETTER THAN IMPLICIT.

> > (2) That argument disagrees with the Python reference
> > manual, which explicitly states that "unrecognized escape
> > sequences are left in the string unchanged", and that the
> > purpose for doing so is because it "is useful when
> > debugging".
>
> How does it disagree? \y in the source code mapping to \y in
> the string object is the sequence being left unchanged. And
> the usefulness of doing so is hardly a disagreement over the
> fact that it does so.

Because you've stated that "\y" is a legal escape sequence,
while the Python Reference Manual explicitly states that it
is an "unrecognized escape sequence", and that such
"unrecognized escape sequences" are sources of bugs.

> > What makes it "illegal". As far as I can tell, it's just
> > another "unrecognized escape sequence".
>
> No, it's recognized, because \x is the prefix for an
> hexadecimal escape code. And it's illegal, because it's
> missing the actual hexadecimal digits.

So? Why does that make it "illegal" rather than merely
"unrecognized?"

SIMPLE IS BETTER THAN COMPLEX.

> All joking aside, syntax varies from one language to
> another. What counts as a legal escape sequence in
> Javascript and what counts as a legal escape sequence in
> Python are different. What makes you think I'm talking
> about Javascript?

Because anyone with common sense will agree that "\y" is an
illegal escape sequence. The only disagreement should then
be how illegal escape sequences should be handled. Python is
not currently handling them in a way that makes the most
sense.

ERRORS SHOULD NEVER PASS SILENTLY.

> But the morass only exists in the first place because you
> have adopted C++'s approach instead of Python's approach --
> and (possibly) not even a standard part of the C++ approach,
> but a non-standard warning provided by one compiler out of
> many.

Them's fighting words! I rarely adopt the C++ approach to
anything! In this case, (1) C++ just coincidentally happens
to be right, and (2) as far as I can tell, g++ implements
the C++ standard correctly here.

> > It may not be a complex form of DWIMing, but it's still
> > DWIMing a bit.  Python is figuring that if I typed "\z",
> > then either I must have really meant to type "\\z",
>
> Nope, not in the least. Python NEVER EVER EVER tries to
> guess what you mean.

Neither does Perl. That doesn't mean that Perl isn't often
DWIMy.

> This is *exactly* like C++, except that in Python the
> semantics of \y and \\y are identical. Python doesn't
> guess what you mean, it *imposes* a meaning on the escape
> sequence. You just don't like that meaning.

That's because I don't like things that are ill-conceived.

> > I.e., more or less like continuing on in the face of
> > what the Python Reference manual refers to as an
> > "unrecognized escape sequence".

> The wording could be better, I accept. It would be better
> to talk about "special escapes" (e.g. \n) and "any
> non-special escape" (e.g. \y).

Or maybe the wording is just fine, and it's the treatment of
unrecognized escape sequences that could be better.

|>ouglas




From no.email at please.post  Tue Aug 11 17:30:24 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:30:24 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to access a function's formal signature?
Message-ID: 



In the standard Python interactive interpreter, the string printed
by the help command when applied to a function includes the function's
formal signature.  E.g.:

>>> def foo(bar, *baz, **frobozz):
...   pass
... 
>>> help(foo)
Help on function foo in module __main__:

foo(bar, *baz, **frobozz)


Here by "signature" I'm referring to the substring "bar, *baz,
**frobozz" shown above (or, equivalently, any other object from
which this string could be deduced).  (I figured out that I can
retrieve this signature using methods in the inspect module.)

OK, now, is there a way to modify a function so that pydoc (and
presumably also the interactive interpreter's help function, etc.)
will print out a desired specific signature for this function?

For example, is there some way that I can modify foo above so that
help(foo) will print out

foo(x, y=None)

I tried mucking with foo.func_code's co_argcount, co_varnames, and
co_flags attributes, but as it turns out, they are read-only,
unfortunately.

The context here is the problem of writing a signature-changing
decorator in such a way that documentation facilities like help
and pydoc will print out the signature of the *original* undecorated
code (with some modifications), rather than the signature of the
decorated method.

TIA!

kynn


From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 17:39:30 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:39:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	
	
	
	
	<86e09602-7eb1-4397-a77f-fb1e3c5b34b9@k26g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <6cca7095-cd11-4961-a44c-78da1b4ddf6b@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 10, 11:27?pm, Steven D'Aprano
 wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 08:21:03 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:
> > But you're right, it's too late to change this now.
>
> Not really. There is a procedure for making non-backwards compatible
> changes. If you care deeply enough about this, you could agitate for
> Python 3.2 to raise a PendingDepreciation warning for "unexpected" escape
> sequences like \z,

How does one do this?

Not that I necessarily think that it is important enough a nit to
break a lot of existing code.

Also, if I "agitate for change", then in the future people might
actually accurately accuse me of agitating for change, when typically
I just come here for a good argument, and I provide a connected series
of statements intended to establish a proposition, but in return I
receive merely the automatic gainsaying of any statement I make.

|>ouglas



From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 17:42:02 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:42:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> 
	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com> 
	<7xk51fgazf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
	
	
	
	<0006817d$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> 
	
	 
	<6790fee9-3374-4fd4-86d5-e7bfa0439ea5@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> 
	
	<875f7a34-b270-4a8c-835b-790e19c12afa@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 11, 1:46?pm, Mark Lawrence  wrote:
> r wrote:
> > Ah Ha! the docs are broken and i was right all along! Are the good
> > folks at Python dev rolling a new installer as we speak, or we must
> > wait for new version?
>
> As I pointed out a few minutes ago thicko, the new version has been
> available for months.


Hello,

I'm mailing you to kindly request, again, that you please stop
validating "r"'s disruptiveness by responding to him on
comp.lang.python.  Thank you.

Carl Banks


From deets at nospam.web.de  Tue Aug 11 17:42:42 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 23:42:42 +0200
Subject: ElementTree - Howto access text within XML tag element...
In-Reply-To: 
References: <1ad8dac1-8fff-493a-a197-d847e7b6a761@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<7ecm77F2fbf71U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
Message-ID: <7ee6ukF2fo0t8U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

cmalmqui schrieb:
> On Aug 11, 9:51 am, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
>> cmalmqui schrieb:
>>> Hi,
>>> I am writing on a small XML parser and are currently stuck as I am not
>>> able to get the whole element name in ElementTree.
>>> Please see the below example where "print root[0][0]" returns
>>> ""
>>> Is there a way to get hold of the "Running" string in the tag using
>>> elementTree?
>>> 
>>>     
>>>       2009-07-10T14:48:00Z
>>>       
>>>       .........
>>> For those of you that know how to program XML I have another
>>> question:
>>> I am currently "hardcoding" my XML parser using brackets, is this a
>>> good approach or should I build it using a "search on tag" approach.
>> What do you mean by that - hardcoding by brackets?
>>
>> Diez
> 
> Indeed, my current approach has been to hardcode the XML parser using
> brackets. Is there a more elegant way?
> 
> I am parsing a garmin xml file from a handheld GPS and as you can see
> in the below script, I am hardcoding each node:

As you don't give an actual example of how the XML looks like, it's hard 
to tell. But under the assumption that the tag-names are not generic, 
I'd certainly go for

   root.find("tagname")

instead. That's much clearer, and you don't rely on an actual order of 
elements.

Diez


From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 17:48:24 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:48:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<3611ca55-79a6-4336-9041-07d0893789f7@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
	<0447e8a2-508d-45b2-8d15-da0cc2a56b5f@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	
	 
	<0291a21a$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<8152546e-1f6f-4ea5-9b10-e1d9b5ffdab8@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <1a0e1e6d-d902-4df7-8d35-850c4f62cc9c@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 11, 4:38?pm, Ethan Furman  wrote:

> Mind you, I'm not really vested in how Python *should* handle
> backslashes one way or the other, but I am glad it has rules that it
> follows for consitent results, and I don't have to break out a byte-code
> editor to find out what's in my string literal.

I don't understand your comment. C++ generates a warning if you use an
undefined escape sequence, which indicates that your program should be
fixed. If the escape sequence isn't undefined, then C++ does the same
thing as Python.

It would be *even* better if C++ generated a fatal error in this
situation. (g++ probably has an option to make warnings fatal, but I
don't happen to know what that option is.) g++ might not generate an
error so that you can compile legacy C code with it.

In any case, my argument has consistently been that Python should have
treated undefined escape sequences consistently as fatal errors, not
as warnings.

|>ouglas



From rurpy at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 11 17:50:51 2009
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:50:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>

On 08/11/2009 11:53 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 07:57:28 -0700, rurpy wrote:
>
>> On 08/11/2009 01:47 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
>>> r   gmail.com>   writes:
>>>> On Aug 9, 11:02 pm, David Lyon   wrote:
>>>>> Since you're talking about documentation, which is a part of python,
>>>>> don't you think you should be discussing it on python-dev ?
>>>> Yea, them's be a friendly bunch to noob ideas ;). Hey i got a better
>>>> idea, lets go to the IRS and see if we can persuade them to stop
>>>> taxing us...
>>> You know, the most interesting thing in this thread is certainly its
>>> title : ? Social problems of Python doc ?
>>>
>>> Yes, the little social problem here should be clear: if you have
>>> complaints to voice or improvements to suggest to the Python docs, you
>>> should do so on the issue tracker (*). For most topics, this is the
>>> only reasonable way to signal problems to the Python developers
>>> community, and so it is in most free software / open source projects.
>> "the *only* reasonable way"?  That's clearly wrong (unless you want to
>> wiggle in the room provided by "reasonable" or "most"). There is
>> discussion on the dev list, there is discussion here.
>
> Discussion here is spitting into the wind. The noise-to-signal ratio is
> high enough that the people who can fix an issue aren't likely to see it
> here. Unless somebody raises a report in the bug tracker, it will go
> nowhere, fast.

The point isn't always to gain a core developer's attention --
sometimes it is to figure out a good approach before proposing
something concrete.

> The same happens for issues on the dev list: I can't count how many times
> people there have said "put it in the bug tracker, or it will be
> forgotten".

On the contrary, there are many issues raised there that are
discussed there or result in the response, "take it to python-
ideas".  Not every issue to so well-baked that it is ready for
a tracker issue with patch.  There are some things that need
discussion before investing a lot of effort in them.

>> The issue tracker is fine for many things, but the process it provides
>> is equivalent to peep-hole optimization.  How does one submit a tracker
>> issue for something like the overall organization of the docs (for
>> example, the mis-placement of things like data- types in the library
>> manual rather than the language manual)?
>
> The same way you would submit a tracker issue for anything.
>
> "Documentation bug: Data types are misplaced in the library manual
> instead of the language manual.
>
> Suggested alternative: move page docs.python.org/xyz.html to abc.html"

But that's the problem.  Such a reorg is not a simple matter
of moving a file from here to there.  It will require a lot
moving about of sections and a lot of word-smithing to glue
them back together again in a coherent way.

A tracker issue, even one that was fairly specific about
how things should be reorganized but which did not provide
all the needed changes (a large patch) would almost certainly
be ignored or rejected.  But providing a large patch raises
two questions.  How likely is it to be be accepted?
(Something anyone would want to know before investing the time.)
And how to actually do the work needed to generate it (it could
be a very large amount of work for an individual and I don't
think it can be broken down into small independent issues.)
How is one to test the waters as to acceptability, or solicit
help, if one simply submits a tracker issue?

>> The big problem with the docs is poor writing (this includes not using
>> examples when they can help explain something more clearly than verbiage
>> alone).
>
> There's a difference between insufficiently good writing and poor
> writing: think of grading the docs, where 100 is "perfect in every way"
> and -100 is "perfectly awful in every possible way". (It's not a linear
> scale.) A score of 0 is "mediocre, just barely acceptable". Poor writing
> has a negative score. In my opinion, Python's docs are perhaps a 40 or
> 50, significantly better than most technical docs I've seen.

There is no objective way of rating docs.  My evaluation results
in part from the fact that I was able to learn Perl using only
the man pages.  I seriously attempted the same with the supposedly
easier-to-learn Python but was not able to and had to resort to
other web resources and buying Beazly's book.

Before you reply that tutorials are for learning, not reference
manuals, I will disagree.  A well written reference manual will
provide all the information needed to understand a language (albeit
arranged differently than the linear form of a tutorial), and I
have learned several languages in addition to Perl from their
reference materials.  Which is why I attribute my failure to do
so with Python to be the docs' fault.

> [...]
>>   I can rewrite some section so it sounds good to me, but likely it will
>> be just as bad (perhaps in different ways) that what is there.
>
> Bug reports are valuable even if you don't have the skills to provide a
> patch. Bug reports with patches are even more valuable, but that doesn't
> mean that the failure to provide a patch *necessarily* dooms your report
> to oblivion.
>
>
>> The post that started this thread proposed something like paying
>> professional writers to improve the docs.  This may or may not be a
>> practical suggestion.  But the immediate response it engendered was an
>> auto-immune-like group response: the docs are great already, don't
>> complain, fix them yourself, yada, yada; the same response that any
>> criticism of free software produces.
>
> I haven't seen any such knee-jerk responses. What I've seen is a set of
> sensible, *practical* advice:
>
> - complaining on its own, especially here, is pointless;

I don't think that is true.  (Or rather, the extent that it is true
is determined by the attitudes here.)

> - Python is a community effort, if you see something that needs fixing,
> do something about it;

Pointing out something that needs fixing *is* doing something
about it.  Maybe not as much as you'd like but from each according
to his ability...

> - many of us DON'T want arbitrary people "correcting" the official docs
> without oversight, and believe that would be a disaster (arbitrary people
> aren't give check-in privileges to add code to Python's standard library,
> nor should they be given check-in privileges to add docs);

Agreed.  I hope that was clear from my earlier post.

> - if people are keen on a Python wiki, then by all means publish one,
> just don't expect the Python dev team to build and manage it for you;

As luminous a Pythoneer as Fredrik Lundh set up a documentation
wiki to collect user contributions but it has faded away.  If
he couldn't pull it off then I'd say most other attempts without
the backing of python.org are almost certainly doomed to failure.
However, were the Python docs site to provide a wiki, along
with a mechanism to migrate suggestions developed on the wiki
into the docs, it might well be a viable (and easier because of
the wysiwyg effect) way of improving the docs.  As other have
pointed out, Postgresql, PHP, and Haskell have done so.
Now maybe there are good reasons not to do that.  But your hand-
waving is not one of them.

> - bug reports and patches to the docs are ALWAYS welcome, even if they
> are rejected;

Of course.  The cost for briefly looking at a report before
rejecting it is very low.  However the cost for producing it
can be much higher.  I'm not saying that that is what happens,
just that your statement considers only the pov of the issue
handlers, not the submitters.

> - if you don't have the skills to fix a bug (including doc bugs), an
> alternative is to pay somebody else to do so instead.

That there are alternatives was not my point.  My point was
that there are perhaps *other* alternatives too, but anyone
who tries to explore them here usually gets buried under a
mass of negativity.

>> It's really too bad the the python community can't seriously discuss
>> ways to improves the docs.  There are other possibilities for instance
>> the Fedora Docs project (can't say I'm impressed by what they've
>> produced but that doesn't mean their model is useless).  There is a need
>> for an approval process managed by someone who actually understands what
>> good technical writing is.  And perhaps editors who can polish or work
>> with programmers who provide the raw technical description of some
>> module.
>
> Yes, you're correct.
>
> [sarcasm] Now that we've agreed on what needs to be done, the problem is
> solved!!! [end sarcasm]

Anyone who's ever been to AA knows that the first step to
solving a problem is to acknowledge the problem exists.
As long as every "the docs sux" complaint is met here with
the standard responses that I've mentioned, rather than, "yes,
they do have some problems, what do you think we should do
about them?", the docs will continue to sux.  But as I said
maybe that's just the way it is.

>> Some kind of higher level more global process is the only way I can see
>> that the docs will be improved to any sort or professional standard.  I
>> don't see how issues like this will be addressed by submitting tracker
>> items.
>
> You want community input into the docs, but you're not willing to give
> that input except to bitch and moan and sook that the tracker is no good.

I have not done any "bitching and moaning".  I tried to
explain a group reaction that affects python negatively
(IMO) by rejecting any consideration of ways of improving
the docs other than submitting tracker issues.
That you pejoratively label it "bitching and moaning"
I count as evidence supporting my view.

> Even if the PSF had a full-time team of professional documentation
> writers and editors, guess what, you would STILL need to submit issues to
> the bug tracker, because otherwise THEY WON'T BE TRACKED.

Maybe, maybe not.  Depends on what development process the
(hypothetical) doc team chooses to use is.

>> Personally, I have given up on this issue.  The social factors involved
>> really pretty much determine that the Python docs will never reach a
>> very high quality -- that's just the way it is and I've come to accept
>> that.
>
> Ultimately it boils down to two factors:
>
> Money.
>
> Effort.
>
> If you won't put in the effort, and you won't put in the money, then it
> won't happen. Moaning that other people aren't putting in the money to
> hire team of professional writers isn't productive, and moaning that
> other people aren't putting in the effort to improve the docs isn't
> either.

Eh?  I have a computer filled with software that I put no
money or effort into, yet there it is.  So clearly you are
wrong in the general sense.  Before you call me a free-loading
ingratiate consider the software you use and how much of it you
have made substantive contributions to.  We all have limited
time and resources and we all have to choose where to invest that
time.  That some of us choose to invest it somewhere other than
Python does not deprive of of our right to point out problems
in Python when we note them.



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Aug 11 18:06:35 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 23:06:35 +0100
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	<7xk51fgazf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>					<0006817d$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
		
	<6790fee9-3374-4fd4-86d5-e7bfa0439ea5@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
		<875f7a34-b270-4a8c-835b-790e19c12afa@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>	
	
Message-ID: 

Carl Banks wrote:
> On Aug 11, 1:46 pm, Mark Lawrence  wrote:
>> r wrote:
>>> Ah Ha! the docs are broken and i was right all along! Are the good
>>> folks at Python dev rolling a new installer as we speak, or we must
>>> wait for new version?
>> As I pointed out a few minutes ago thicko, the new version has been
>> available for months.
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I'm mailing you to kindly request, again, that you please stop
> validating "r"'s disruptiveness by responding to him on
> comp.lang.python.  Thank you.
> 
> Carl Banks
I hereby apologise.  My only feeble excuse is that my mammary glands are 
getting crushed.

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From paul at boddie.org.uk  Tue Aug 11 18:08:59 2009
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 15:08:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <9811a980-af7f-4f4b-a0f9-d3f8e565b8ac@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On 11 Aug, 23:50, ru... at yahoo.com wrote:
>
> However, were the Python docs site to provide a wiki, along
> with a mechanism to migrate suggestions developed on the wiki
> into the docs, it might well be a viable (and easier because of
> the wysiwyg effect) way of improving the docs. ?As other have
> pointed out, Postgresql, PHP, and Haskell have done so.
> Now maybe there are good reasons not to do that. ?But your hand-
> waving is not one of them.

I think you make some good points, although I don't have time to
respond to all of them. Certainly, the documentation situation with
Python is not ideal; otherwise, people would not be complaining about
it so frequently.

I recommend going to the existing Wiki and looking at what there is
already:

http://wiki.python.org/moin/Documentation
http://wiki.python.org/moin/CategoryDocumentation

Sadly, I don't think you'll find much to work with, apart from the
occasional attempt to make an annotated version of the existing
documentation:

http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonLibraryReference

So my next recommendation is to either use the existing Wiki
infrastructure or to ask for a separate Wiki for the purpose of
reworking the documentation. You could either take the existing
documentation, which I believe is now restructured text, and just drop
that into the Wiki with the appropriate format directives (for later
reworking in Wiki format, perhaps), or you could start afresh and
tackle some of the more serious issues head on.

I can see benefits to just starting from scratch. Perhaps the
licensing should be more explicit than the existing material on the
Wiki so that the documentation produced could be freely distributed
without uncertainty, but the outcome would hopefully be something that
stands on its own as an alternative or a replacement to the
conventional documentation.

Paul


From joelriv at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 18:09:37 2009
From: joelriv at gmail.com (Joel Juvenal Rivera Rivera)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 17:09:37 -0500
Subject: create shell history with python
Message-ID: <1250028577.1453.46.camel@localhost>

I been thinking how to make a 'bash like history shell' in python,
i don't know if with stdin and stdout i can accomplish this or do i
need something like curses and stuff like that, anyway im start to
figure this out.
Does any body has try this? or have any interesting idea?

--Joel Rivera




From clp2 at rebertia.com  Tue Aug 11 18:15:02 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 18:15:02 -0400
Subject: create shell history with python
In-Reply-To: <1250028577.1453.46.camel@localhost>
References: <1250028577.1453.46.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908111515t386f7ee7w6fcebd1326c77263@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 6:09 PM, Joel Juvenal Rivera
Rivera wrote:
> I been thinking how to make a 'bash like history shell' in python,
> i don't know if with stdin and stdout i can accomplish this or do i
> need something like curses and stuff like that, anyway im start to
> figure this out.
> Does any body has try this? or have any interesting idea?

http://docs.python.org/library/readline.html

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From deets at nospam.web.de  Tue Aug 11 18:15:38 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 00:15:38 +0200
Subject: create shell history with python
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7ee8saF2e47vaU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Joel Juvenal Rivera Rivera schrieb:
> I been thinking how to make a 'bash like history shell' in python,
> i don't know if with stdin and stdout i can accomplish this or do i
> need something like curses and stuff like that, anyway im start to
> figure this out.
> Does any body has try this? or have any interesting idea?

Don't waste your time, use IPython :)

http://ipython.scipy.org/moin/

Diez


From joelriv at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 18:18:55 2009
From: joelriv at gmail.com (Joel Juvenal Rivera Rivera)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 17:18:55 -0500
Subject: create shell history with python
In-Reply-To: <50697b2c0908111515t386f7ee7w6fcebd1326c77263@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1250028577.1453.46.camel@localhost>
	<50697b2c0908111515t386f7ee7w6fcebd1326c77263@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1250029135.1453.48.camel@localhost>

Wow i didn't  know that module this solves everything... i guess python
has a lot more  batteries than i thought .
Thank you Chris

El mar, 11-08-2009 a las 18:15 -0400, Chris Rebert escribi?:
> On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 6:09 PM, Joel Juvenal Rivera
> Rivera wrote:
> > I been thinking how to make a 'bash like history shell' in python,
> > i don't know if with stdin and stdout i can accomplish this or do i
> > need something like curses and stuff like that, anyway im start to
> > figure this out.
> > Does any body has try this? or have any interesting idea?
> 
> http://docs.python.org/library/readline.html
> 
> Cheers,
> Chris



From deets at nospam.web.de  Tue Aug 11 18:23:39 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 00:23:39 +0200
Subject: for key, value in dict.() - how to get? (which func)
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <7ee9beF2gr846U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

dmitrey schrieb:
> Yes, thank you, items() is the correct approach, on the other hand I
> have already get rid of the cycle.

Most certainly items() is *not* the correct approach if you are 
concerned so much with performance, because items() first creates a list 
of key/value-pairs, where iteritems() will be an effective iterator.

so if you are (IMHO wrongly) concerned about performance of an O(1) 
lookup, items() certainly costs more.

And the following program proves it:

import time

d = dict(zip(xrange(100000), xrange(100000)))

start = time.time()
for loops in xrange(100):
     for key in d:
         value = d[key]

print "lookup: ", time.time() - start

start = time.time()

for loops in xrange(100):
     for key, value in d.items():
         value = d[key]


print "items: ", time.time() - start

start = time.time()

for loops in xrange(100):
     for key, value in d.iteritems():
         value = d[key]


print "items: ", time.time() - start


The result on my machine is:

deets$ python /tmp/test.py

lookup:  2.78633999825
items:  7.42830610275
items:  3.69960308075

So actually your condemed approach seems to be the fastest, where the 
items() call by far is the slowest approch.

"In the face of ambiguity, refuse the temptation to guess."


Diez


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Aug 11 18:25:27 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 11 Aug 2009 15:25:27 -0700
Subject: httplib incredibly slow :-(
References: 
Message-ID: 

In article ,
Chris Withers   wrote:
>
>Does anyone know of an alternative library for creating http requests 
>and getting their responses that's faster but hopefully has a similar 
>interface?

PyCurl
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"...string iteration isn't about treating strings as sequences of strings, 
it's about treating strings as sequences of characters.  The fact that
characters are also strings is the reason we have problems, but characters 
are strings for other good reasons."  --Aahz


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 19:12:42 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 16:12:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	<7xk51fgazf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> 
	 
	
	
	
	<0006817d$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> 
	
	 
	<6790fee9-3374-4fd4-86d5-e7bfa0439ea5@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> 
	
	<875f7a34-b270-4a8c-835b-790e19c12afa@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

...(Carl Banks doing what he does best)
> > I'm mailing you to kindly request, again, that you please stop
> > validating "r"'s disruptiveness by responding to him on
> > comp.lang.python. ?Thank you.

Carl,
You have no right to tell people when where and how they should speak
to anyone. And how dare you think you can! If you spent even a
fraction of the time you spend manipulating the direction of this list
and instead, actually contributing to the problem at hand, (discussion
or otherwise) we would be much closer to solving this problem today.

You (and your conspirators) are the reason most people find the c.l.py
list so disturbing and wish not to participate. Get a life you moron
and stop trying to control the world.

PS: GET STUFFED!


From rays at blue-cove.com  Tue Aug 11 19:13:37 2009
From: rays at blue-cove.com (RJ)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 16:13:37 -0700
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
In-Reply-To: <9811a980-af7f-4f4b-a0f9-d3f8e565b8ac@g10g2000yqh.googlegro
	ups.com>
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	<9811a980-af7f-4f4b-a0f9-d3f8e565b8ac@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20090811160723.04a40580@blue-cove.com>

At 03:08 PM 8/11/2009, you wrote:
>I recommend going to the existing Wiki and looking at what there is
>already:
>
>http://wiki.python.org/moin/Documentation
>http://wiki.python.org/moin/CategoryDocumentation

I also can't see how to get 
from  http://wiki.python.org/moin/Documentation to 
http://wiki.python.org/moin/CategoryDocumentation, for one...

>Sadly, I don't think you'll find much to work with, apart from the
>occasional attempt to make an annotated version of the existing
>documentation:
>
>http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonLibraryReference

The library reference above needs a link to Modules (and the link to 
Andrew's pages are now dead - 
http://pydoc.amk.ca/frame.html)

What I've always looked for and Google constantly for, is a main 
language version of the features of http://www.scipy.org/Cookbook and 
http://code.activestate.com/recipes/langs/python/, with module level 
organization. At least users can submit something at Activestate. The 
issue there (and at Scipy) is that I usually want an example 
illustrating some method, and that's not how it's organized (but is 
at those Other language sites), so I still need to search at Scipy, or do
http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Ascipy.org+foo
-------------- next part --------------
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From cjns1989 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 19:16:55 2009
From: cjns1989 at gmail.com (Chris Jones)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 19:16:55 -0400
Subject: [OT] From: header - WAS: Python docs disappointing - group effort	to
	hire writers?
In-Reply-To: <7xab266v1j.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<081115fd-8014-4e6b-8d7b-76d6fcf6a59d@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<7xr5vj9m0g.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	<2fd432c7-00e2-4bb6-9192-e9f7aa96c4d7@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	<7xab266v1j.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <20090811231655.GA3491@turki.gavron.org>

Hello Paul,

This is strictly OT, but when you get a chance, could you contact me off
list at the above address?

I need your help with the From: email address specified in your posts to
the list. 

Thanks,

CJ


From Nikolaus at rath.org  Tue Aug 11 19:21:16 2009
From: Nikolaus at rath.org (Nikolaus Rath)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 19:21:16 -0400
Subject: Monkeypatching an object to become callable
References: <87hbwgu7xa.fsf@vostro.rath.org>
	<0aa46ece-64b9-4c28-b690-5ac5937ce3f2@f20g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
	<4a7fd55e$0$32765$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <87iqguey37.fsf@vostro.rath.org>

Bruno Desthuilliers  writes:
> 7stud a ?crit :
> (snip)
>> class Wrapper(object):
>>     def __init__(self, obj, func):
>>         self.obj = obj
>>         self.func = func
>>
>>     def __call__(self, *args):
>>         return self.func(*args)
>>
>>     def __getattr__(self, name):
>>         return object.__getattribute__(self.obj, name)
>
> This should be
>
>           return getattr(self.obj, name)
>
> directly calling object.__getattribute__ might skip redefinition of
> __getattribute__ in self.obj.__class__ or it's mro.

Works nicely, thanks. I came up with the following shorter version which
modifies the object in-place:

class Modifier(obj.__class__):
     def __call__(self):
         return fn()

obj.__class__ = Modifier


To me this seems a bit more elegant (less code, less underscores). Or
are there some cases where the above would fail?


Best,

   -Nikolaus

-- 
 ?Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a Banana.?

  PGP fingerprint: 5B93 61F8 4EA2 E279 ABF6  02CF A9AD B7F8 AE4E 425C


From chris at simplistix.co.uk  Tue Aug 11 19:25:41 2009
From: chris at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 00:25:41 +0100
Subject: httplib incredibly slow :-(
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <4A81FDF5.6010508@simplistix.co.uk>

Aahz wrote:
> In article ,
> Chris Withers   wrote:
>> Does anyone know of an alternative library for creating http requests 
>> and getting their responses that's faster but hopefully has a similar 
>> interface?
> 
> PyCurl

This seems to be a wrapper around libcurl.

Does it work on Windows?
If so, where can I find some decent examples?
(the ones listed on the pycurl website are not what I'd call decent :-S)

Chris


-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting
            - http://www.simplistix.co.uk


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 19:37:51 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 16:37:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	<9811a980-af7f-4f4b-a0f9-d3f8e565b8ac@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 11, 3:08?pm, Paul Boddie  wrote:
> Certainly, the documentation situation with
> Python is not ideal; otherwise, people would not be complaining about
> it so frequently.

I will not take an opinion on whether Python's documentation is ideal
(more on why below) but I will opine that the conclusion doesn't
follow from your premise.  People's expectations of what documentation
should be are too different, there will always be people who aren't
pleased.  IOW, there is no "ideal".

For example, kj (who started this mess of thread) complained that
pydoc didn't give exhaustive usage documentation.  In contrast, I
think pydoc gives too much information.  I would rather have only the
bare minimum; I don't want to pan through ten paragraphs just to see
what the fifth argument is.

So who's right?

No one, there is no "right".  Unfortunately some people can't or won't
respect that opinions differ; they have to take perceived defects in
the docs personally.


Carl Banks


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 19:47:38 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 16:47:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to access a function's formal signature?
References: 
Message-ID: <9c025b8e-9602-48cf-be77-f67e9ed3953c@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 11, 2:30?pm, kj  wrote:
> In the standard Python interactive interpreter, the string printed
> by the help command when applied to a function includes the function's
> formal signature. ?E.g.:
>
> >>> def foo(bar, *baz, **frobozz):
>
> ... ? pass
> ...>>> help(foo)
>
> Help on function foo in module __main__:
>
> foo(bar, *baz, **frobozz)
>
> Here by "signature" I'm referring to the substring "bar, *baz,
> **frobozz" shown above (or, equivalently, any other object from
> which this string could be deduced). ?(I figured out that I can
> retrieve this signature using methods in the inspect module.)
>
> OK, now, is there a way to modify a function so that pydoc (and
> presumably also the interactive interpreter's help function, etc.)
> will print out a desired specific signature for this function?

I think you'd have to modify pydoc.  pydoc pulls this information out
from the function's attributes (and maybe also it's underlying code
object) which are read-only.


Carl Banks


From danb_83 at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 11 20:08:01 2009
From: danb_83 at yahoo.com (AggieDan04)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 17:08:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bug in format specification in Python 3?
References: 
Message-ID: <8ae626c7-1f21-4ab6-b299-2e5633755fbf@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 11, 3:28?pm, Robert Dailey  wrote:
> Hello,
>
> According to the Python 3.1 documentation, I can have a format
> specification like so:
>
> print( 'This is a hex number: {:#08x}'.format( 4 ) )
>
> This will print:
>
> This is a hex number: 0x000004
>
> I notice that the '0x' portion is counted in the width, which was
> specified as 8. This seems wrong to me. Is this by design? If so, why?
> I expect that the width portion to only apply to the input + padding
> only. I don't consider the '0x' portion part of the padding. But maybe
> it is...

It's unintuitive to me, too, but it's the same thing that Python 2.x
did:

>>> print '%#08x' % 4
0x000004



From skippy.hammond at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 20:10:18 2009
From: skippy.hammond at gmail.com (Mark Hammond)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 17:10:18 -0700
Subject: Windows 7 : any problems installing or running Python ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <4A82086A.4060606@gmail.com>

On 9/08/2009 10:42 PM, Tim Roberts wrote:
> Dave WB3DWE wrote:
>>
>> Anybody tried it ?
>> Is anything broken, ie is the whole shootin' match good to go ?
>> I'm esp interested in WConio for 3.0/3.1 which I use heavily.
>
> I've been running the 32-bit builds of Python 2.5, PyWin32, and wxPython on
> Windows 7 64-bit for many months.  No problems at all.
>
> I hated Vista; I would only run it if my clients insisted on having their
> drivers tested on it.  Vista SP1 was somewhat better, but I don't mind
> Windows 7 at all.  I might even upgrade my primary development machine from
> XP.  A number of the usually cranky driver developers have expressed the
> same opinion.  Microsoft might actually have a winner here.

"Me too" :)

Mark


From exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  Tue Aug 11 20:19:28 2009
From: exarkun at twistedmatrix.com (exarkun at twistedmatrix.com)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 00:19:28 -0000
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	<9811a980-af7f-4f4b-a0f9-d3f8e565b8ac@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <20090812001928.10431.2043769776.divmod.xquotient.0@localhost.localdomain>

On 11 Aug, 11:37 pm, pavlovevidence at gmail.com wrote:
>
>I will not take an opinion on whether Python's documentation is ideal
>(more on why below) but I will opine that the conclusion doesn't
>follow from your premise.  People's expectations of what documentation
>should be are too different, there will always be people who aren't
>pleased.  IOW, there is no "ideal".
>
>For example, kj (who started this mess of thread) complained that
>pydoc didn't give exhaustive usage documentation.  In contrast, I
>think pydoc gives too much information.  I would rather have only the
>bare minimum; I don't want to pan through ten paragraphs just to see
>what the fifth argument is.
>
>So who's right?
>
>No one, there is no "right".  Unfortunately some people can't or won't
>respect that opinions differ; they have to take perceived defects in
>the docs personally.

This is right on.  Excellent point, Carl.

Jean-Paul


From rurpy at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 11 20:46:39 2009
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 17:46:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	<7xab2c52y6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> 
	<3ef3f447-af32-4c1d-858c-9b7031f08b46@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com> 
	<7xk51fgazf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
	
	
	
	<0006817d$0$2895$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> 
	
	 
	<6790fee9-3374-4fd4-86d5-e7bfa0439ea5@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> 
	
	<875f7a34-b270-4a8c-835b-790e19c12afa@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 11, 2:46 pm, Mark Lawrence  wrote:
> r wrote:
> > Ah Ha! the docs are broken and i was right all along! Are the good
> > folks at Python dev rolling a new installer as we speak, or we must
> > wait for new version?
>
> As I pointed out a few minutes ago thicko, the new version has been
> available for months.

Now hold on here...

I too was bitten by this.  I thought the chm docs were so unusable
that I went to the issue tracker, extremely annoyed, to submit a
rather caustic bug report.  Only after looking through the doc bugs
did I find that it was already recognised, that a corrected chm
file was available, and that there were no plans to do any more
than that.  (This is from memory since the python tracker is down).

On the main download page is a link to the 2.6.2 msi file with not
a word about the help file.  Only if you follow the "python-2.6.2"
link to a second page, is there a link to the corrected help file,
and even that says only, "Updated Windows help file" with no
indication that it is supposed to replace a broken one in the
distribution.

If "r" is a "thicko", I'd say the handling of this issue was done
by some who are considerably thicker.

It may also be yet another example of how documentation (using
the word loosely) is produced without sufficient attention to its
usefulness to its intended audience.


From jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu  Tue Aug 11 20:54:36 2009
From: jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 17:54:36 -0700
Subject: hashability
Message-ID: 

Hello All,

I wrote the function to test hashability of arbitrary objects. My reason 
is that the built-in python (2.5) hashing is too permissive for some 
uses. A symptom of this permissiveness comes from the ability to 
successfully hash() arbitrary objects:

   py> class C(object): pass
   ...
   py> {C():4}[C()]
   ------------------------------------------------------------
   Traceback (most recent call last):
     File "", line 1, in 
   : <__main__.C object at 0xe21610>

The basis for the exception is that the two instances do not have the 
same hash() although conceptually they might seem equal to the 
unitiated. Were I to re-design python, I'd throw an exception in this 
case because of the ill-defined behavior one might expect if a C() 
serves as a key for a dict.

To prevent users of one of my libraries from falling into this and 
similar traps (which have potentially problematic consequences), I came 
up with this test for hashability:

def hashable(k):
   try:
     hash(k)
   except TypeError:
     good = False
   else:
     good = (hasattr(k, '__hash__') and
             (hasattr(k, '__eq__') or hasattr(k, '__cmp__')))
   return good

It works as I would like for most of the cases I can invent:

   py> all(map(hashable, [1,1.0,"",(1,2,3)]))
   True
   py> any(map(hashable, [None, [1,2], {}, C(), __import__('sys')]))
   False

Can anyone think of boundary cases I might be missing with this approach?


James


From db3l.net at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 21:18:43 2009
From: db3l.net at gmail.com (David Bolen)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:18:43 -0400
Subject: Networked Broadcast Messaging
References: <37ea826b-708d-48f4-a64a-42f58fec5325@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

"squishywaffle at gmail.com"  writes:

> * Machines can come and go. Since messages are not directly sent to a
> specific IP address from our Python script, the messages are simply
> broadcasted to those who are there to listen. If nobody is subscribed
> to the message type being sent, nothing happens.

What sort of delivery guarantees are you looking for if there is in
fact a machine that is trying to listen to a particular message or
message group?  Is it ok if someone is listening for a certain type of
message, is it ok if it misses one that is sent?

If you do simple direct broadcasting (e.g., UDP), you'd need your own
reliability layer above that if you cared if the message actually got
to an intended destination if that destination was present.

If you want better guarantees, you might look into a distributed
message bus like Spread (http://www.spread.org/) or perhaps a
messaging protocol like XMPP (http://xmpp.org/) through its PubSub
extension.  Both have Python interfaces, though I have no personal
experience with either.  But perhaps that will also give you some
terms or starting points for searching for other options.

-- David


From contact at xavierho.com  Tue Aug 11 21:38:08 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:38:08 +1000
Subject: Any built-in function for smallest positive floating point 
	number?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908111838n602c52fbu2d7754733b6246@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 3:29 AM, Maria Liukis  wrote:

> Hello everybody,
> Is somebody aware of built-in Python's function that would return
> a value for smallest positive double precision floating point number
> (analogous to 'realmin' in Matlab). Python has built-in sys.maxint but I
> could not find anything for float.
>

I'm not sure if this helps, but here you go:
http://drj11.wordpress.com/2007/07/05/the-smallest-number/

I couldn't get it to work on Python 2.6.2 or 3.1 myself, however it seems
pretty small.

- Xav
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From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Tue Aug 11 21:40:15 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 18:40:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: hashability
References: 
Message-ID: <3c01fa6b-b6b7-4c02-aaf8-34e005355f31@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 11, 5:54?pm, James Stroud  wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> I wrote the function to test hashability of arbitrary objects. My reason
> is that the built-in python (2.5) hashing is too permissive for some
> uses. A symptom of this permissiveness comes from the ability to
> successfully hash() arbitrary objects:
>
> ? ?py> class C(object): pass
> ? ?...
> ? ?py> {C():4}[C()]
> ? ?------------------------------------------------------------
> ? ?Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? ? ?File "", line 1, in 
> ? ?: <__main__.C object at 0xe21610>
>
> The basis for the exception is that the two instances do not have the
> same hash() although conceptually they might seem equal to the
> unitiated. Were I to re-design python, I'd throw an exception in this
> case because of the ill-defined behavior one might expect if a C()
> serves as a key for a dict.

That's arguably the right thing to do.

Personally I've found that being able to use class instances as
hashable objects to be terribly useful (these objects are hashed and
compared by identity, of course), so I don't mind it.  But I can
definitely see how this straddles the line between "practicality" and
"face of ambiguity".  And if Python didn't do it by default, it would
be little trouble to add the appropriate __eq__ and __hash__ methods.


> To prevent users of one of my libraries from falling into this and
> similar traps (which have potentially problematic consequences),

Even so, I would consider whether some of your users might, like me,
also find this terribly useful, and if so (probably a few will unless
they are all novices), allow them to disable or disregard this check.

> I came
> up with this test for hashability:
>
> def hashable(k):
> ? ?try:
> ? ? ?hash(k)
> ? ?except TypeError:
> ? ? ?good = False
> ? ?else:
> ? ? ?good = (hasattr(k, '__hash__') and
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?(hasattr(k, '__eq__') or hasattr(k, '__cmp__')))
> ? ?return good

I wouldn't call the function "hashable".  Class instances like C() are
hashable whether you approve or not.  Something like
"deliberately_hashable" would be a better name.


> It works as I would like for most of the cases I can invent:
>
> ? ?py> all(map(hashable, [1,1.0,"",(1,2,3)]))
> ? ?True
> ? ?py> any(map(hashable, [None, [1,2], {}, C(), __import__('sys')]))
> ? ?False
>
> Can anyone think of boundary cases I might be missing with this approach?

It is possible to redefine == operator by defining __ne__ instead of
__eq__, at least on Python 2.5, so you should keep that in mind.


Carl Banks


From contact at xavierho.com  Tue Aug 11 21:42:36 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:42:36 +1000
Subject: Any built-in function for smallest positive floating point 
	number?
In-Reply-To: <2d56febf0908111838n602c52fbu2d7754733b6246@mail.gmail.com>
References: 
	<2d56febf0908111838n602c52fbu2d7754733b6246@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908111842g11ff8f49w7c96a8bbbb929d83@mail.gmail.com>

I got it to work with Python 2.6.2.

>>> import struct
>>> struct.unpack('d', struct.pack('Q', 1))[0]
4.9406564584124654e-324

Python 3.1 will print 5e-324, which is fair enough.

Cheers,
Xavier
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From contact at xavierho.com  Tue Aug 11 21:49:00 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:49:00 +1000
Subject: Any built-in function for smallest positive floating point 
	number?
In-Reply-To: <2d56febf0908111842g11ff8f49w7c96a8bbbb929d83@mail.gmail.com>
References: 
	<2d56febf0908111838n602c52fbu2d7754733b6246@mail.gmail.com>
	<2d56febf0908111842g11ff8f49w7c96a8bbbb929d83@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908111849y393a65fk609e787eee9bd6f3@mail.gmail.com>

Actually, that was double precision. You asked for float precision.

>>> struct.unpack('f', struct.pack('L', 1))[0]
1.4012984643248171e-45

which is the same as:
>>> 2**-149
1.4012984643248171e-45

I think that's it. Sorry for posting to the list three times in a row.
corrections welcome.
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From rurpy at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 11 21:50:39 2009
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 18:50:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	<9811a980-af7f-4f4b-a0f9-d3f8e565b8ac@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <56a1d77e-0379-49e4-99c1-2d0de1378bc2@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 11, 4:08?pm, Paul Boddie  wrote:
> On 11 Aug, 23:50, ru... at yahoo.com wrote:
> > However, were the Python docs site to provide a wiki, along
> > with a mechanism to migrate suggestions developed on the wiki
> > into the docs, it might well be a viable (and easier because of
> > the wysiwyg effect) way of improving the docs. ?As other have
> > pointed out, Postgresql, PHP, and Haskell have done so.
> > Now maybe there are good reasons not to do that. ?But your hand-
> > waving is not one of them.
>[...]
> I can see benefits to just starting from scratch. Perhaps the
> licensing should be more explicit than the existing material on the
> Wiki so that the documentation produced could be freely distributed
> without uncertainty, but the outcome would hopefully be something that
> stands on its own as an alternative or a replacement to the
> conventional documentation.

A couple years ago I actually did give a half-assed try to rewriting
the doc.  I got the doc source downloaded and buildable with the
intent
of rewriting in bits and pieces as I had occasion to use (and find
problems with) various parts.  Not knowing latex, I stupidly got side-
tracked trying to convert it to docbook which I was more interested
in.
After I gave up on that and went back to latex, I found merging
changes
from Python into my source (a little of which was heavily modified by
this time) to be very time consuming.  And eventually the Python side
was changed to REST putting an end to my effort which by that time
were already pretty minimal.  I concluded that the rewrite I was
trying
to do was comparable to writing a Python book, and too ambitious for
one person working on it <5 hrs/week.

And of course I am not any better writer (probably worse) than the
average Python programmer.  Which is the problem with using a wiki --
unless good writers contribute, I see no reason to expect much
better results than already exist.  But maybe I am too pessimistic...



From http  Tue Aug 11 21:51:03 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 11 Aug 2009 18:51:03 -0700
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	<9811a980-af7f-4f4b-a0f9-d3f8e565b8ac@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <7xocqler5k.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Carl Banks  writes:
> On> For example, kj (who started this mess of thread) complained that
> pydoc didn't give exhaustive usage documentation.  In contrast, I
> think pydoc gives too much information.  I would rather have only the
> bare minimum; I don't want to pan through ten paragraphs just to see
> what the fifth argument is.

The problem is that it doesn't sufficiently separate the carefully
written useful stuff from the automatically generated useless stuff.


From afriere at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Aug 11 22:06:54 2009
From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 19:06:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: hashability
References: 
Message-ID: <77eda964-a6ee-496b-9c5f-5391663099e0@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 12, 10:54?am, James Stroud  wrote:

> I wrote the function to test hashability of arbitrary objects. My reason
> is that the built-in python (2.5) hashing is too permissive for some
> uses. A symptom of this permissiveness comes from the ability to
> successfully hash() arbitrary objects:

Arbitrary, or anonymous objects and some uses or some users?  I'm
can't see why anyone would expect different instance of a class to be
equivalent keys.

> The basis for the exception is that the two instances do not have the
> same hash() although conceptually they might seem equal to the
> unitiated.

Perhaps the best solution would be for the unitiated to correct their
misaprehensions?  If you don't understand that you are instantiating a
number of anonymous instances of a class you are missing something
very fundamental.

> Were I to re-design python, I'd throw an exception in this
> case because of the ill-defined behavior one might expect if a C()
> serves as a key for a dict.

Then you couldn't to this:

d = {C():1, C():2, C():3}
a,b,c = d.keys()
d[c]

Anonymous instances are a GoodThing(tm) and they can usually be de-
anonymised if need be.


From andrew at acooke.org  Tue Aug 11 22:13:39 2009
From: andrew at acooke.org (andrew cooke)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 19:13:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Frustrated with scopes
Message-ID: <28f6f8e1-2689-4ff3-b453-e6c8859d2c43@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>


Is there a way to make this work (currently scope and join are
undefined at runtime when the inner class attributes are defined):

class _StreamFactory(object):

    @staticmethod
    def __call__(lines, source, join=''.join):

        class Line(object):

            __source = source
            __join = join
[...]

I can get something working by bouncing through global values, but it
looks awful and I think it's a source of a bug due too values being
redefined.

Thanks,
Andrew


From andrew at acooke.org  Tue Aug 11 22:14:27 2009
From: andrew at acooke.org (andrew cooke)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 19:14:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Frustrated with scopes
References: <28f6f8e1-2689-4ff3-b453-e6c8859d2c43@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

correction: "source" and "join" are undefined.  Sorry, Andrew



From jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu  Tue Aug 11 22:15:07 2009
From: jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 19:15:07 -0700
Subject: hashability
In-Reply-To: <3c01fa6b-b6b7-4c02-aaf8-34e005355f31@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<3c01fa6b-b6b7-4c02-aaf8-34e005355f31@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Carl Banks wrote:
> On Aug 11, 5:54 pm, James Stroud  wrote:
> 
>> To prevent users of one of my libraries from falling into this and
>> similar traps (which have potentially problematic consequences),
> 
> Even so, I would consider whether some of your users might, like me,
> also find this terribly useful, and if so (probably a few will unless
> they are all novices), allow them to disable or disregard this check.

I realize I left out my use. The intent of the function is to flag 
objects that will make useful keys for a persistent dictionary. The 
{C():4}[C()] example demonstrates why I want to avoid certain types of 
keys--I don't want users to do things like {C():4, C():4}, which python 
happily allows but falls apart at the level of persistence.

However, I also want to avoid isinstance() and/or type checking in order 
to allow maximal flexibility so that users don't have to work too hard 
to make their keys.

> I wouldn't call the function "hashable".  Class instances like C() are
> hashable whether you approve or not.  Something like
> "deliberately_hashable" would be a better name.

I chose "keyable".

>> Can anyone think of boundary cases I might be missing with this approach?
> 
> It is possible to redefine == operator by defining __ne__ instead of
> __eq__, at least on Python 2.5, so you should keep that in mind.

Thanks for this hint. I've already put it in.

James


From jus__ at hotmail.com  Tue Aug 11 22:22:27 2009
From: jus__ at hotmail.com (Jus)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:22:27 -0400
Subject: Unsigned char array to an unsigned longlong array
Message-ID: 

Hello,

 

I'm using Python 2.6.2.

Is there a way to have an Array of unsigned longlong (C Type: unsigned
longlong, Minimum size if bytes: 8) ?

I found a page on the internet
(http://mail.python.org/pipermail/patches/2005-April/017430.html
 ), but I'm not quite sure if it is available.

 

 

What I want to do is to store an array of bytes in an array of longlongs.

To workaround this issue, I have tried to use the double array (TypeCode
'd'), since the size in bytes is the same (8 for instance).

But it gives me strange result. Please look at the example:

 

import array

myByteArray = array.array('B', [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8])

>> myByteArray = array('B', [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8])

 

myLongArray = array.array('L', myByteArray.tostring() )

>> myLongArray = array('L', [67305985L, 134678021L])

 

myDoubleArray = array.array('d', myByteArray.tostring() )

>> myDoubleArray = array('d', [5.447603722011605e-270])

 

If we convert the byte array to an hex form, we will get for the long array:
[04030201, 08070605].

If we convert this hex array to decimal, we then get the Long Array:
[67305985, 134678021].

 

Now, if we do the same exercise for the double array, the hex form will look
like: [0807060504030201].

And the decimal value would be: [5.784376957523072e+17].

 

Where does the 5.447603722011605e-270 value comes from ?

 

 

Thanks for your help,

Francis

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From afriere at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Aug 11 22:24:39 2009
From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 19:24:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: hashability
References: 
	<3c01fa6b-b6b7-4c02-aaf8-34e005355f31@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <62618e10-44f0-406d-8446-efe78a9c101c@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 12, 12:15?pm, James Stroud  wrote:

> I realize I left out my use. The intent of the function is to flag
> objects that will make useful keys for a persistent dictionary. The
> {C():4}[C()] example demonstrates why I want to avoid certain types of
> keys--I don't want users to do things like {C():4, C():4}, which python
> happily allows but falls apart at the level of persistence.

What am I missing here?  How, in terms of persistence, is {C():4, C():
4} conceptually different from {'spam':4, 'ham':4}?


From davea at ieee.org  Tue Aug 11 22:29:20 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:29:20 -0400
Subject: adding multiple new values to the same key in a dictionary
In-Reply-To: <4A8192A30200008C00014AB9@redhorse.forestry.uga.edu>
References: <4A8192A30200008C00014AB9@redhorse.forestry.uga.edu>
Message-ID: <4A822900.7030008@ieee.org>

Krishna Pacifici wrote:
> Hi,
> I want to be able to add multiple new values to a key in a dictionary.
>
> I have tried the following:
>
> sec_dict_clean=
> {88: [87, 89, 78, 98], 58: [57, 59, 48, 68], 69: [79], 95: [94, 96, 85]}
>
> for i in range(len(sec_dict_clean.values())):
>     for j in range(len(sec_dict_clean.values()[i])):
>         sec_dict_clean.setdefault(key,[]).append(blocks[sec_dict_clean.values()[i][j]].abundance)
>
> where blocks[...].abundance gives me a single value from an object,
>
> but this gives me the following:
>
> sec_dict_clean=
> {88: [87, 89, 78, 98], 58: [57, 59, 48, 68], 69: [79], 95: [94, 96, 85, 4, 12, 11, 6, 9, 12, 11, 7, 10, 10, 12, 9, 6, 12, 15, 9, 8, 12, 15, 12, 12]}
>
> instead I want each abundance (starts with 4, 12...) to be associated with each of the values so that it would look like this:
>
> sec_dict_clean=
> {88: ([87, 89, 78, 98], [4,12,11,6]), 58: ([57, 59, 48, 68], [9,12,11,7]), 69: ([79], [10])...}
>
> You can see there are several errors here (I have more things being appended than there are values in the dictionary), but I really just want to know how to add multiple values to the same key in a dictionary.
>
> Thanks for any help,
> Krishna
>
>
>
>   
You're really distorting the purposes of both dictionary and list here.  
It makes your code totally unreadable, which makes it hard to write, and 
hard to debug.

A dictionary is a mapping between key and value, where each key has 
exactly one value.  You cannot add another one to it.   All you can do 
is make the value something which is itself a collection.  Now, your 
desired dictionary looks achievable, almost.  If you change the parens 
(tuple) to square brackets (list), then it'll work.
    So key 88 has a single value, which is a list of two items.  Each of 
those items is itself a list with 4 items.  And each of those items are 
integers.

But then I got bogged down in your sample code.  I tried to simplify it, 
replacing the first two lines with these three:

for i, key in enumerate(sec_dict_clean):
    val = sec_dict_clean[key]
    for j, xxx in enumerate(val):
        
???sec_dict_clean.setdefault(key,[]).append(blocks[sec_dict_clean.values()[i][j]].abundance)

But I can't make head nor tail of the third line.  You didn't have a 
variable key, so I don't know if I'm using the same one..  Since I can't 
figure out what you were trying to do, I can't see how to fix it.

I think the problem here is you're trying to reorganize the data as well 
as adding to it, in a single pass.  So is some previous code generating 
the dictionary incorrectly, and instead of fixing that, you're trying to 
reorganize it here?

To make each dictionary value a list of lists:

sec_dict_clean=
{88: [87, 89, 78, 98], 58: [57, 59, 48, 68], 69: [79], 95: [94, 96, 85]}

for key in sec_dict_clean:
    sec_dict_clean[key] = [sec_dict_clean[key]]

now,  the dict looks like:
{88: [[87, 89, 78, 98, 3]], 58: [[57, 59, 48, 68]], 69: [[79]], 95: 
[[94, 96, 85]]}

At this point, if you have some interesting data to add to it, you can 
just append a new list to
     dict[key]

In an earlier message, you mentioned fields a and b, and assuming this 
is a similar problem, it would seem that 87 is somehow associated with 
4, and 89 with 12, and so on.  If that's the case, perhaps your desired 
final structure might look more like:

{88: [[87,4], [89,12], [78, 11],[98, 6],   58: [[57, 9], [59, 12], [48, 11], [68, 7]],   69: ...}


In this case, the structure is entirely different.  But the approach is 
the same.  And at least you'd be getting closer to the object approach 
where  [87,4] is replaced by an object of some type.

BTW, please don't top-post.  When you reply to this one, put your reply 
at the end, or sometimes interspersed.  But if you put it at the 
beginning, it's out of order.

DaveA



From davea at ieee.org  Tue Aug 11 22:54:49 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:54:49 -0400
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A822EF9.2090907@ieee.org>

Robert Dailey wrote:
> Hey guys. Being a C++ programmer, I like to keep variable definitions
> close to the location in which they will be used. This improves
> readability in many ways. However, when I have a multi-line string
> definition at function level scope, things get tricky because of the
> indents. In this case indents are serving two purposes: For syntax and
> actual text output. The tabs for function scope should not be included
> in the contents of the string. Below is the code I am trying to
> improve. Notice how it looks ugly/unreadable because of the way the
> string contents are shifted all the way to the left edge of the
> document. This breaks the flow of scope. Would you guys solve this
> problem by moving failMsg into global scope? Perhaps through some
> other type of syntax?
>
> Help is appreciated!
>
> def RunCommand( commandList ):
>    commandString =
>    print( 'Running Command:',  )
>    cmd = subprocess.Popen( commandList )
>    returnCode = cmd.wait()
>    if returnCode:
>       failMsg = '''\
> *************************************************
> The following command returned exit code [{:#x}].
> This represents failure of some form. Please review
> the command output for more details on the issue.
> ------------
> {}
> *************************************************
> '''
>       commandString = ' '.join( commandList )
>       raise CommandFailure( failMsg.format( returnCode,
> commandString ) )
>
>   
No, don't put it in global scope.  Put it externally, so it can be 
readily localized for international markets.

DaveA


From abecedarian314159 at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 11 23:22:56 2009
From: abecedarian314159 at yahoo.com (William)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 20:22:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is there any package implanation the following arithmetics?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <904309.72680.qm@web110602.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

What you want is:
http://www.cgal.org/

I believe it has python bindings.

Cheers,
William



________________________________
From: Emile van Sebille 
To: python-list at python.org
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 12:49:19 PM
Subject: Re: Is there any package implanation the following arithmetics?

On 8/11/2009 1:49 AM zhongshq said...
> Hi,
> 
> I wonder if there has any package can check whether two rectangles are
> overlap, is a dot inside or outside a polygon, etc.

PythonCad at http://sourceforge.net/projects/pythoncad/ has intersections built in.

Emile

-- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



      
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From lanyjie at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 12 00:15:39 2009
From: lanyjie at yahoo.com (Yingjie Lan)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:15:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: releasing expy 0.1.1
Message-ID: <932447.5519.qm@web54201.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


Hi all,

This is to announce the release of expy 0.1.1 for those who are interested. Thanks a lot for the interest from this list. For more information, please see 

http://expy.sf.net/

Note: expy is an express way to extend Python. Why consider expy? Here are some good reasons:

(I). WYSIWYG. The expy project enables you to write your module in Python the way your extension would be (WYSIWYG), and meanwhile write your implementation in pure C. You specify your modules, functions, methods, classes, and even their documentations the usual way of writing your Python correspondences. Then your provide your implementation to the functions/methods by returning a multi-line string. By such an arrangement, everything falls in its right place, and your extension code becomes easy to read and maintain. Also, the generated code is very human-friendly.

(II). You only provide minimal information to indicate your intension of how your module/class would function in Python. So your extension is largely independent from the Python extension API. As your interaction with the Python extension API is reduced to minimal (you only care about the functionality and logic), it is then possible that your module written in expy can be independent of changes in the extension API.

(III). The building and setup of your project can be automatically done with the distutil tool. In the tutorial, there are ample examples on how easily this is achieved.

(IV). Very light weight. The expy tool is surprisingly light weight dispite of its powerful ability, as it is written in pure Python. There is no parser or compiler for code generation, but rather the powerful reflexion mechanism of Python is exploited in a clever way to generate human-friendly codes. Currently, generating code in C is supported, however, the implementation is well modularized and code generation in other languages such as Java and C++ should be easy.

While there are already a couple of other projects trying to simply this task with different strategies, such as Cython, Pyrex and modulator, this project is unique and charming in its own way. All you need is the WYSIWYG Python file for your module extension, then expy takes care of everything else. What follows in this documentation is on how to extend Python in C using expy-cxpy: the module expy helps define your module, while module cxpy helps generate C codes for your defined module.

regards,

Yingjie


      


From arphaksad at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 00:27:47 2009
From: arphaksad at gmail.com (naaman)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:27:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: fileinput
Message-ID: 

I'm writing my first Python script and
I want to use fileinput to open a file in r+ mode.
Tried fileinput.input(sys.argv[1:],"r+") but that didn't work.
ANy ideas?

Need to find and overwrite a line in a file several times.
I can do it using open and seek() etc. but was wondering if I can use
fileinput.

thanks;



From bouncyinc at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 00:28:22 2009
From: bouncyinc at gmail.com (John Haggerty)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:28:22 -0600
Subject: getting a "simple" program to work
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

just checking to see if there is any input that may have been misdirected to
a spam filter.
Would love to see some feedback if I may

On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 6:42 PM, John Haggerty  wrote:

> ok so I know this is one of those "weird" requests but here me out.
> So far I have an issue with a package for python called "libgmail" which is
> basically a gmail interface for python to send messages remoetly.
>
> Works ok except that the 'sendMessage' routine is bad.
>
> This is included in the above attachment
>
> it's used in a program called "ogss" which is an sms interface to gmail to
> basically read gmail and then have a command done on a remote machine and
> then spat out on the local machine to a log file that's opened and then
> emailed back
>
> problem is that the sending back routine fails.
>
> Now I've found a program that will more or less do what is requied but it's
> not really exactly what would be used in that it doesn't use the libgmail
> routine.
>
> So far the maintainer of both packages seem to be afk or not having their
> routines fixed and so far debian/Unbuntu claim that the last version of the
> package has been fixed :(
>
> Is there a recommendatin of how to combine/alter so that ogss can transmit?
> My main issue is that python is lesser known to me than Chinese (which I
> also don't know).
>
> My idea of this is to have a remote email timeclock program which could
> then be scripted with any language or just "echo >>blah" if necessary.
>
> Thanks in advance :)
>
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From clp2 at rebertia.com  Wed Aug 12 00:46:49 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 00:46:49 -0400
Subject: getting a "simple" program to work
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908112146q6e12650dt914518166b4fae72@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 8:42 PM, John Haggerty wrote:
> ok so I know this is one of those "weird" requests but here me out.
> So far I have an issue with a package for python called "libgmail" which is
> basically a gmail interface for python to send messages remoetly.
> Works ok except that the 'sendMessage' routine is bad.

How is it "bad" precisely? Be specific (e.g. error message(s),
description of observed incorrect behavior).

> This is included in the above attachment
> it's used in a program called "ogss" which is an sms interface to gmail to
> basically read gmail and then have a command done on a remote machine and
> then spat out on the local machine to a log file that's opened and then
> emailed back
> problem is that the sending back routine fails.

Which routine is that exactly? Please also specify exactly how it is
failing (e.g. error message(s), description of observed incorrect
behavior).

I apologize if these questions are answered in comments in the
attachments, but to be honest, the fact that you didn't (or couldn't)
put the specific problematic sections of code (and/or error messages)
inline in your message makes it less likely that people (such as
myself) will try to help you due to the volume of code you're making
people wade through (i.e. people tend not to read large code dumps,
/especially/ in attachments).

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From bouncyinc at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 01:02:57 2009
From: bouncyinc at gmail.com (John Haggerty)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 23:02:57 -0600
Subject: getting a "simple" program to work
In-Reply-To: <50697b2c0908112146q6e12650dt914518166b4fae72@mail.gmail.com>
References: 
	<50697b2c0908112146q6e12650dt914518166b4fae72@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 10:46 PM, Chris Rebert  wrote:

> On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 8:42 PM, John Haggerty wrote:
> > ok so I know this is one of those "weird" requests but here me out.
> > So far I have an issue with a package for python called "libgmail" which
> is
> > basically a gmail interface for python to send messages remoetly.
> > Works ok except that the 'sendMessage' routine is bad.
>
> How is it "bad" precisely? Be specific (e.g. error message(s),
> description of observed incorrect behavior).
>

In regards to bad would be failing to transmit claiming that the submittal
is wrong for the transmit string.

(where username is my gmail username and "password" is my gmail password to
the test account, 6666666969 is the mobile number in question '00' is my
"carrier id" from the ogss code example which is just an array location from
a preformatted part of the string [probably from wikipedia on mobile carrier
email addresses to cell phones], I actually got desperate and commented out
the first attempt to transmit which I located in the code as just the
"instructions" the code fails on re-transmission, I later on looked at the
file and located that it was a zero byte file of no content. The program
itself looks for a command from the user's cell phone directly from mms sent
to the target gmail account prefaced by "Ogss" and anything else is treated
as a command but since the command failed on the first transmit I don't
think it's the command per se).

owner at bouncyinc:~/Desktop/OGSS$ python ogss.py username password 6666666969
00
Starting ogss
Logfile at:/home/owner/ogss.log
Opening log file for reading
Parsing user input
Connecting to Gmail
Logging into Gmail
Opening log file for writing
Listening for commands
Processing Command
ls: unrecognized option `---------------------------------------------'
Try `ls --help' for more information.
Seding back results
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "ogss.py", line 127, in 
    main(sys.argv)
  File "ogss.py", line 110, in main
    account.sendMessage(tosend)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/libgmail.py", line 615, in
sendMessage
    raise GmailSendError, resultInfo[SM_MSG]
libgmail.GmailSendError: Please try again.

I traced the result to the sendMessage routine and noted that anytime it
tries to send anything it fails this also fails with the standard "docs"
package for libgmail 0.30 docs from the maintainer's site.

Now the part where it *does* fail is where it has an issue with looking at
the trailing info but then it would have logged the info to the file and
emailed me back junk (which it didn't)

I assume this could be done on any system just replace 'ls' with 'dir' or
the equivalent.


>
> > This is included in the above attachment
> > it's used in a program called "ogss" which is an sms interface to gmail
> to
> > basically read gmail and then have a command done on a remote machine and
> > then spat out on the local machine to a log file that's opened and then
> > emailed back
> > problem is that the sending back routine fails.
>
> Which routine is that exactly? Please also specify exactly how it is
> failing (e.g. error message(s), description of observed incorrect
> behavior).
>
> I apologize if these questions are answered in comments in the
> attachments, but to be honest, the fact that you didn't (or couldn't)
> put the specific problematic sections of code (and/or error messages)
> inline in your message makes it less likely that people (such as
> myself) will try to help you due to the volume of code you're making
> people wade through (i.e. people tend not to read large code dumps,
> /especially/ in attachments).
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --
> http://blog.rebertia.com
>
That's ok I understand I hope that helps at least in part.
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From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Aug 12 01:11:22 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 15:11:22 +1000
Subject: Character encoding & the copyright symbol
References: <29ab0981-b95d-4435-91bd-a7a520419ada@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <87skfxehvp.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Dave Angel  writes:

> But I wanted to comment on the (c) remark.  If you're in the US,
> that's the wrong abbreviation for copyright.  The only recognized
> abbreviation is (copr).

More reading on this:

    
    

In brief: To be a legally-recognised copyright notice under US law, it
must begin with ?Copyright?, or one of the abbreviations ?Copr.? or the
exact symbol ???. As you rightly point out, neither ?(c)? nor ?(C)? have
any legal status as a copyright marker.

The Berne Convention, by making copyright active on *every* creative
work of expression, even in the total *absence* of a copyright notice,
essentially undermines the force of this and makes it exceedingly
difficult to divest a work of copyright. But that's a whole 'nother
depressing mess.

-- 
 \         ?A politician is an animal which can sit on a fence and yet |
  `\                  keep both ears to the ground.? ?Henry L. Mencken |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From nospamjstroudmapson at mbi.ucla.edu  Wed Aug 12 01:32:50 2009
From: nospamjstroudmapson at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:32:50 -0700
Subject: hashability
In-Reply-To: <62618e10-44f0-406d-8446-efe78a9c101c@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<3c01fa6b-b6b7-4c02-aaf8-34e005355f31@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	
	<62618e10-44f0-406d-8446-efe78a9c101c@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Asun Friere wrote:
> On Aug 12, 12:15 pm, James Stroud  wrote:
> 
>> I realize I left out my use. The intent of the function is to flag
>> objects that will make useful keys for a persistent dictionary. The
>> {C():4}[C()] example demonstrates why I want to avoid certain types of
>> keys--I don't want users to do things like {C():4, C():4}, which python
>> happily allows but falls apart at the level of persistence.
> 
> What am I missing here?  How, in terms of persistence, is {C():4, C():
> 4} conceptually different from {'spam':4, 'ham':4}?

You should be more imaginative.


From nospamjstroudmapson at mbi.ucla.edu  Wed Aug 12 01:33:50 2009
From: nospamjstroudmapson at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:33:50 -0700
Subject: hashability
In-Reply-To: <77eda964-a6ee-496b-9c5f-5391663099e0@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<77eda964-a6ee-496b-9c5f-5391663099e0@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Asun Friere wrote:
> Perhaps the best solution would be for the unitiated to correct their
> misaprehensions

Can you come give a class to my users?


From nospamjstroudmapson at mbi.ucla.edu  Wed Aug 12 01:51:12 2009
From: nospamjstroudmapson at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:51:12 -0700
Subject: Frustrated with scopes
In-Reply-To: <28f6f8e1-2689-4ff3-b453-e6c8859d2c43@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
References: <28f6f8e1-2689-4ff3-b453-e6c8859d2c43@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

andrew cooke wrote:
> Is there a way to make this work (currently scope and join are
> undefined at runtime when the inner class attributes are defined):
> 
> class _StreamFactory(object):
> 
>     @staticmethod
>     def __call__(lines, source, join=''.join):
> 
>         class Line(object):
> 
>             __source = source
>             __join = join
> [...]


It would be helpful if you were to describe the type of behavior you expect.

I assume you will return the newly created Line class when you call an 
instance of _StreamFactory? There may be some things about the above 
that you might be overlooking:

1. __call__ does not supersede the __init__ constructor of _StreamFactory.
2. __source and __join are name-mangled in later versions of python. 
They will be attributes of the returned Line class named _Line_source 
and _Line_join respectively.

Rather than make _StreamFactory a class, you will probably get the 
behavior you desire if you simply make it a function:

def stream_factory:
   class Line(object):
     __source = source
     __join = join
   # etc.
   return Line

And then don't forget that double underscores produce name mangling and 
you'll be set.

James




From petshmidt at googlemail.com  Wed Aug 12 01:52:50 2009
From: petshmidt at googlemail.com (Pet)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:52:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: better way?
References: <9899e909-509e-47d4-a8e5-f9d70e0b8827@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<78a18b9b-f29e-432f-9fe4-8c250cb08edb@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<87skfyjen8.fsf@golux.woodcraft.me.uk> 
	
Message-ID: <6733c8fe-9ef8-4010-9b23-27538e19d8ff@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On 11 Aug., 22:19, "Rami Chowdhury"  wrote:
> Ah, my apologies, I must have been getting it confused with ON UPDATE ?
> [things]. Thanks for correcting me.
>
> On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:10:03 -0700, Matthew Woodcraft ?
>
>  wrote:
> > "Rami Chowdhury"  writes:
>
> >> IIRC Postgres has had ON DUPLICATE KEY UPDATE functionality longer than
> >> MySQL...
>
> > PostgreSQL does not have ON DUPLICATE KEY UPDATE.
>
> > The SQL standard way to do what the OP wants is MERGE. PostgreSQL
> > doesn't have that either.
>
> > -M-
>
> --
> Rami Chowdhury
> "Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" -- ?
> Hanlon's Razor
> 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)

So, I'm doing it in right way?
What about building columns? map(lambda s: s + ' = %s', fields)
Is that o.k.?

thanks


From chris at rebertia.com  Wed Aug 12 01:52:51 2009
From: chris at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 01:52:51 -0400
Subject: hashability
In-Reply-To: <62618e10-44f0-406d-8446-efe78a9c101c@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<3c01fa6b-b6b7-4c02-aaf8-34e005355f31@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	
	<62618e10-44f0-406d-8446-efe78a9c101c@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908112252l758c32b9u701daf09a7810a09@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/11 Asun Friere :
> On Aug 12, 12:15?pm, James Stroud  wrote:
>
>> I realize I left out my use. The intent of the function is to flag
>> objects that will make useful keys for a persistent dictionary. The
>> {C():4}[C()] example demonstrates why I want to avoid certain types of
>> keys--I don't want users to do things like {C():4, C():4}, which python
>> happily allows but falls apart at the level of persistence.
>
> What am I missing here? ?How, in terms of persistence, is {C():4, C():
> 4} conceptually different from {'spam':4, 'ham':4}?

Thought Experiment:
Consider, for each dict, the case of pickling it twice to 2 separate files.
When loaded from both files into the same program, the spam-ham dicts
will work as expected between each other.
The dicts with C()s will not. For example, assuming the unpickled
dicts are `cs1` and `cs2`, cs1[cs2.keys()[0]] will raise KeyError.

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Wed Aug 12 02:06:13 2009
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (greg)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 18:06:13 +1200
Subject: Bug in format specification in Python 3?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7ef4dkF26f4duU1@mid.individual.net>

Robert Dailey wrote:

> I notice that the '0x' portion is counted in the width, which was
> specified as 8. This seems wrong to me. Is this by design? If so, why?

Yes, it's the total field width. This is consistent with
the other formats, in which it includes decimal points,
signs, etc.

If you don't want that, then write the format string as

   'This is a hex number: 0x{:08x}'

-- 
Greg


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Wed Aug 12 02:17:06 2009
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (greg)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 18:17:06 +1200
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
In-Reply-To: <83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7ef51uF2g36t5U1@mid.individual.net>

rurpy at yahoo.com wrote:
> Such a reorg is not a simple matter
> of moving a file from here to there.  It will require a lot
> moving about of sections and a lot of word-smithing to glue
> them back together again in a coherent way.

Concerning this particular issue, not everyone would
agree that the doc sections in question are misplaced.

In Python the distinction between builtin and library
types is fairly blurry. There are advantages to having
them all documented in one place -- when looking for
info about a type, you don't have to try to guess
whether it's considered built-in or not to know which
manual to look in.

-- 
Greg


From nospamjstroudmapson at mbi.ucla.edu  Wed Aug 12 02:17:08 2009
From: nospamjstroudmapson at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 23:17:08 -0700
Subject: Frustrated with scopes
In-Reply-To: 
References: <28f6f8e1-2689-4ff3-b453-e6c8859d2c43@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

James Stroud wrote:
 > def stream_factory:
 >   class Line(object):
 >     __source = source
 >     __join = join
 >   # etc.
 >   return Line
 >

of course I meant "def stream_factory(lines, source, join=''.join):"

James



From afriere at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Aug 12 02:18:59 2009
From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 23:18:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: hashability
References: 
	<3c01fa6b-b6b7-4c02-aaf8-34e005355f31@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	
	<62618e10-44f0-406d-8446-efe78a9c101c@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 12, 3:32?pm, James Stroud 
wrote:

> You should be more imaginative.

I'm by no means discounting that there might be some actual problem
you're trying to solve here, but I honestly can't see it.

There really is no need to get personal about this, so rather than
asking for a level of imagination from me, (which I apparently lack),
please just explain to me how {one_instance_of_a_hashable_class : val,
another_instance_of_a_hashable_class :val} is conceptually different
{one_instance_of_class_str: val, another_instance_of_class_str: val},
in terms of persistence.

If I am missing something here, I would actually like to know.  If on
the other hand, I'm not, then rather at taking umbrage, you might want
instead to save yourself the effort of solving a non-existent problem?

> Can you come give a class to my users?

No.

However, I think it's fairly central to the notion of a class that it
is a template for creating different instances which themselves have a
unique identity.  And that subsequent calls to a class' constructor
ought to create unique instances of that class (subject perhaps to
implementation tricks such as interning).  If it is not obvious that {C
():4}[C()] invovles subsequent calls to C's constructor, then that
very example is itself didactic.


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Wed Aug 12 02:25:04 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 02:25:04 -0400
Subject: hashability
In-Reply-To: <62618e10-44f0-406d-8446-efe78a9c101c@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<3c01fa6b-b6b7-4c02-aaf8-34e005355f31@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	
	<62618e10-44f0-406d-8446-efe78a9c101c@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908112325h2610d261x487dd62caed57172@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/11 Asun Friere :
> On Aug 12, 12:15?pm, James Stroud  wrote:
>
>> I realize I left out my use. The intent of the function is to flag
>> objects that will make useful keys for a persistent dictionary. The
>> {C():4}[C()] example demonstrates why I want to avoid certain types of
>> keys--I don't want users to do things like {C():4, C():4}, which python
>> happily allows but falls apart at the level of persistence.
>
> What am I missing here? ?How, in terms of persistence, is {C():4, C():
> 4} conceptually different from {'spam':4, 'ham':4}?

Consider the case of pickling the data twice to 2 separate files.
When loaded from both files into the same program, the spam-ham dicts
will work as expected.
The C()s will not. For cs1[cs2.keys()[0]] will raise KeyError.

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Wed Aug 12 02:26:31 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 02:26:31 -0400
Subject: hashability
In-Reply-To: <50697b2c0908112325h2610d261x487dd62caed57172@mail.gmail.com>
References: 
	<3c01fa6b-b6b7-4c02-aaf8-34e005355f31@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	
	<62618e10-44f0-406d-8446-efe78a9c101c@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<50697b2c0908112325h2610d261x487dd62caed57172@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908112326q7908190btff3352979a02dc4f@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 2:25 AM, Chris Rebert wrote:
> 2009/8/11 Asun Friere :
>> On Aug 12, 12:15?pm, James Stroud  wrote:

Apologies for the possible repeated post. Gmail failed to mark the
draft as sent for some reason.

- Chris


From afriere at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Aug 12 02:29:41 2009
From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 23:29:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: hashability
References: 
	<3c01fa6b-b6b7-4c02-aaf8-34e005355f31@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	
	<62618e10-44f0-406d-8446-efe78a9c101c@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <3a07642d-7876-4939-9c05-f09545afd41a@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 12, 3:52?pm, Chris Rebert  wrote:

> Thought Experiment:
> Consider, for each dict, the case of pickling it twice to 2 separate files.
> When loaded from both files into the same program, the spam-ham dicts
> will work as expected between each other.
> The dicts with C()s will not. For example, assuming the unpickled
> dicts are `cs1` and `cs2`, cs1[cs2.keys()[0]] will raise KeyError.
>

Aha!

cheers.



From dstanek at dstanek.com  Wed Aug 12 02:31:55 2009
From: dstanek at dstanek.com (David Stanek)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 02:31:55 -0400
Subject: hashability
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<3c01fa6b-b6b7-4c02-aaf8-34e005355f31@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	
	<62618e10-44f0-406d-8446-efe78a9c101c@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 2:18 AM, Asun Friere wrote:
> On Aug 12, 3:32?pm, James Stroud 
> wrote:
>
>> You should be more imaginative.
>
> I'm by no means discounting that there might be some actual problem
> you're trying to solve here, but I honestly can't see it.

How about a cache? Hashing by id means nothing across machines or even
process runs on the same machine.

-- 
David
blog: http://www.traceback.org
twitter: http://twitter.com/dstanek


From nospamjstroudmapson at mbi.ucla.edu  Wed Aug 12 02:52:17 2009
From: nospamjstroudmapson at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 23:52:17 -0700
Subject: hashability
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<3c01fa6b-b6b7-4c02-aaf8-34e005355f31@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	
	<62618e10-44f0-406d-8446-efe78a9c101c@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

Asun Friere wrote:
> On Aug 12, 3:32 pm, James Stroud 
> wrote:
> 
>> You should be more imaginative.
> 
> I'm by no means discounting that there might be some actual problem
> you're trying to solve here, but I honestly can't see it.
> 
> There really is no need to get personal about this, so rather than
> asking for a level of imagination from me, (which I apparently lack),
> please just explain to me how {one_instance_of_a_hashable_class : val,
> another_instance_of_a_hashable_class :val} is conceptually different
> {one_instance_of_class_str: val, another_instance_of_class_str: val},
> in terms of persistence.

Sorry for being a twit. This list used to be quite nice but some people 
on this list got pretty abrasive. I couldn't tell you weren't one of 
these abrasive people from your post. I stopped giving the benefit of 
the doubt many moons ago and promptly enter attack mode at the slightest 
hint of abrasiveness. My attitude probably exacerbates the problem--but 
it sure does make me feel better.


Anyway, I think the problem has been described better than I'm able, but 
once an object goes to the file system, one can not take its hash value 
for granted. It is not possible to rely on the ability to recreate any 
arbitrary object de-novo and use the recreation as a key in proxy for 
the original object. I'm after this "je ne sais pas que l'appeler" 
quality of objects to use as keys (or to generate keys) for persistent 
dictionaries. Carl Banks suggested that this quality should not be 
called "hashable", so I'm calling it "keyable".


From garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk  Wed Aug 12 02:58:43 2009
From: garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk (garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 06:58:43 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: create shell history with python
References: 
	<7ee8saF2e47vaU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: 

Diez B. Roggisch  wrote:
> Joel Juvenal Rivera Rivera schrieb:
>> I been thinking how to make a 'bash like history shell' in python,
>> i don't know if with stdin and stdout i can accomplish this or do i
>> need something like curses and stuff like that, anyway im start to
>> figure this out.
>> Does any body has try this? or have any interesting idea?
> 
> Don't waste your time, use IPython :)
> 
> http://ipython.scipy.org/moin/
> 

for python 2.x only, unfortunately

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------
| Radovan Garab?k http://kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk/~garabik/ |
| __..--^^^--..__    garabik @ kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk     |
 -----------------------------------------------------------
Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus.
Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Aug 12 03:08:06 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 12 Aug 2009 07:08:06 GMT
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<3611ca55-79a6-4336-9041-07d0893789f7@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
	<0447e8a2-508d-45b2-8d15-da0cc2a56b5f@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	
	 <0291a21a$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<8152546e-1f6f-4ea5-9b10-e1d9b5ffdab8@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	
	<1a0e1e6d-d902-4df7-8d35-850c4f62cc9c@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:48:24 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:

> In any case, my argument has consistently been that Python should have
> treated undefined escape sequences consistently as fatal errors, 

A reasonable position to take. I disagree with it, but it is certainly 
reasonable.


> not as warnings.

I don't know what language you're talking about here, because non-special 
escape sequences in Python aren't either errors or warnings:

>>> print "ab\cd"
ab\cd

No warning is made, because it's not considered an error that requires a 
warning. This matches the behaviour of other languages, including C and 
bash.



-- 
Steven


From afriere at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Aug 12 03:13:50 2009
From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 00:13:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: hashability
References: 
	<3c01fa6b-b6b7-4c02-aaf8-34e005355f31@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	
	<62618e10-44f0-406d-8446-efe78a9c101c@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
Message-ID: <108fe8d0-ec3c-49f4-b825-9303ac6aa8a9@32g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 12, 4:52?pm, James Stroud 
wrote:

> Sorry for being a twit.

Don't be ridiculous.  You haven't been a twit, I have!

I've just had a complete "blonde" moment here (with apologies to any
real blondes out there.  My only excuse is that I've been up to 02:30
for the last three nights running (or maybe it's the ageing process, a
cerebrovascular accident or something).

I just checked a class I recently wrote specifically for the purposes
of hashing a dict (in case I had made this error IRL).  Wouldn't you
know it, it's subclassed to tuple, and defines both __eq__ and
__cmp__.  Luckily when I write production code the guy who knows what
he's doing takes over.  And this in an app which compares keys from
different pickled files (representing DB holdings)?!  Of all things.

I can't believe how unfathomably stupid I've been.  I'm extremely
embarassed.  I think I'll just go out and shoot myself now.  Or get
some sleep.


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Wed Aug 12 03:18:03 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 09:18:03 +0200
Subject: ElementTree - Howto access text within XML tag element...
In-Reply-To: 
References: <1ad8dac1-8fff-493a-a197-d847e7b6a761@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<7ecm77F2fbf71U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
Message-ID: <4a826cac$0$31870$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>

cmalmqui wrote:
> tree = etree.parse('10_07_2009 16_48_00_history.tcx')
> root = tree.getroot()
> 
> elem = root[0][0]
> 
> # iterate over all laps
> for i in range(1, len(elem)-1):

Note that you can iterate over elements as in

	for lap_element in elem:
	    # ...

Then use

	record = lap.find("recordtagname")

to find things inside the subtree. You can also use XPath-like expressions
such as

	all_intersting_elements =
		lap.findall("sometag/somechild//somedescendant")

Stefan


From afriere at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Aug 12 03:25:06 2009
From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 00:25:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: hashability
References: 
	
Message-ID: <25e7ee06-233d-4c8d-b5a9-384a4f5f1694@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 12, 5:14?pm, Dennis Lee Bieber  wrote:

> c1 = C()
> c2 = C()
>
> {c1:4}[c2]
>
> to behave? That IS the equivalent of your statement -- two instances are
> two distinctly different entities...
>

Thankyou, that is EXACTLY the mistake I made that sent me off into
lunacy.

At the risk of further embarassment, the answer is that one would
expect it to behave analogously to:

c1 = int(x)
c2 = int(x)

{c1:4}[c2]

Or is my brain still on vacation?


From nospamjstroudmapson at mbi.ucla.edu  Wed Aug 12 03:33:01 2009
From: nospamjstroudmapson at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 00:33:01 -0700
Subject: hashability
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 17:54:36 -0700, James Stroud 
> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
> 
>>    ...
>>    py> {C():4}[C()]
>>    ------------------------------------------------------------
>>    Traceback (most recent call last):
>>      File "", line 1, in 
>>    : <__main__.C object at 0xe21610>
>>
>> The basis for the exception is that the two instances do not have the 
>> same hash() although conceptually they might seem equal to the 
>> unitiated. Were I to re-design python, I'd throw an exception in this 
>> case because of the ill-defined behavior one might expect if a C() 
>> serves as a key for a dict.
>>
> 	"A" C()... How would you expect
> 
> c1 = C()
> c2 = C()
> 
> {c1:4}[c2] 
> 
> to behave?


This seems like a subjective question. I think I demonstrated how it 
*does* behave, which is purely objective--and I know I can't do anything 
about that. But the subjective answer to the subjective question is that 
I would like an exception to be raised when the dictionary is 
constructed. I know an exception doesn't get thrown in the current 
incarnation of the python language. That is the objective reality of the 
situation which affronts my subjective notions of how reality should be.

That IS the equivalent of your statement -- two instances are
> two distinctly different entities...

Tell that to two different machines on two different days. Then bet the 
life of yourself and your nearest and dearest family on that fact and 
see whether you really want to take a hash value for granted. If a 
property of the python language fails the "bet the lives of your nearest 
and dearest on a consistent result" test, I call it "ill defined" and, 
subjectively speaking, I prefer exceptions to be thrown--And, by damned, 
I'll throw them myself if I have to.

"If it saves one life, it's worth it all."

James




From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Aug 12 03:34:33 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 12 Aug 2009 07:34:33 GMT
Subject: hashability
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 17:54:36 -0700, James Stroud wrote:

> Hello All,
> 
> I wrote the function to test hashability of arbitrary objects. My reason
> is that the built-in python (2.5) hashing is too permissive for some
> uses. A symptom of this permissiveness comes from the ability to
> successfully hash() arbitrary objects:

No it doesn't.


>>> hash([])
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
TypeError: list objects are unhashable

Python successfully hashes *non*-arbitrary objects, including those that 
inherit from object.



>    py> class C(object): pass
>    ...
>    py> {C():4}[C()]
>    ------------------------------------------------------------
>    Traceback (most recent call last):
>      File "", line 1, in 
>    : <__main__.C object at 0xe21610>

Why would you expect that to succeed? The object you are using as the key 
is a different instance than the object you are looking up. Since your 
instances don't even compare equal, why would you expect them to hash 
equal?

>>> C() == C()
False



> The basis for the exception is that the two instances do not have the
> same hash() although conceptually they might seem equal to the
> unitiated. 

Yes, well, the ignorant and uninitiated frequently make mistakes. I feel 
your pain.



> Were I to re-design python, I'd throw an exception in this
> case because of the ill-defined behavior one might expect if a C()
> serves as a key for a dict.

It's not ill-defined, it's a perfectly reasonable design you just don't 
happen to like. It's quite useful for some.


> To prevent users of one of my libraries from falling into this and
> similar traps (which have potentially problematic consequences), I came
> up with this test for hashability:

That's not a test for hashability. That's a test for hashability and 
equality testing together.


> def hashable(k):
>    try:
>      hash(k)
>    except TypeError:
>      good = False
>    else:
>      good = (hasattr(k, '__hash__') and
>              (hasattr(k, '__eq__') or hasattr(k, '__cmp__')))
>    return good

The test for __hash__ is redundant, given that hash() has already 
succeeded.

It will wrongly reject classes that deliberately don't define equality, 
for whatever reason, and that *expect* the behaviour you are treating as 
an error.



> It works as I would like for most of the cases I can invent:
> 
>    py> all(map(hashable, [1,1.0,"",(1,2,3)])) True
>    py> any(map(hashable, [None, [1,2], {}, C(), __import__('sys')]))
>    False

Well there you go -- why on earth would you prohibit None as a dictionary 
key??? That's a serious failure.



-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Aug 12 03:36:56 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 12 Aug 2009 07:36:56 GMT
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<3611ca55-79a6-4336-9041-07d0893789f7@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
	<0447e8a2-508d-45b2-8d15-da0cc2a56b5f@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	
	 <0291a21a$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<8152546e-1f6f-4ea5-9b10-e1d9b5ffdab8@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:20:52 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:

> On Aug 11, 2:00?pm, Steven D'Aprano  cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> 
>> > test.cpp:1:1: warning: unknown escape sequence '\y'
>>
>> Isn't that a warning, not a fatal error? So what does temp contain?
> 
> My "Annotated C++ Reference Manual" is packed, and surprisingly in
> Stroustrup's Third Edition, there is no mention of the issue in the
> entire 1,000 pages. But Microsoft to the rescue:
> 
>      If you want a backslash character to appear within a string, you
>      must type two backslashes (\\)
> 
> (From http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/69ze775t.aspx)

Should I assume that Microsoft's C++ compiler treats it as an error, not 
a warning? Or is is this *still* undefined behaviour, and MS C++ compiler 
will happily compile "ab\cd" whatever it feels like?

 
> The question of what any specific C++ does if you ignore the warning is
> irrelevant, as such behavior in C++ is almost *always* undefined. Hence
> the warning.

So a C++ compiler which follows Python's behaviour would be behaving 
within the language specifications.

I note that the bash shell, which claims to follow C semantics, also does 
what Python does:

$ echo $'a s\trin\g with escapes'
a s     rin\g with escapes


Explain to me again why we're treating underspecified C++ semantics, 
which may or may not do *exactly* what Python does, as if it were the One 
True Way of treating escape sequences?


-- 
Steven


From petshmidt at googlemail.com  Wed Aug 12 03:49:50 2009
From: petshmidt at googlemail.com (Pet)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 00:49:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: better way?
References: <9899e909-509e-47d4-a8e5-f9d70e0b8827@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<78a18b9b-f29e-432f-9fe4-8c250cb08edb@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <6126d193-5715-492f-8054-d9212bc6b87f@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On 12 Aug., 09:14, Dennis Lee Bieber  wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 11:45:50 -0700 (PDT), Pet 
> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>
> > Oh, forgotten to mention. It's PostGres
>
> ? ? ? ? Really? There are still installations of an RDBMS that predates the
> commonalization of SQL?
>
> ? ? ? ? I suspect you mean PostgreSQL -- it IS a different beast from the
> older Postgres.

O, yeah. Of course it is PostgreSQL

>
> ? ? ? ? In either event -- my old books don't show an "all in one" solution.
>
> ? ? ? ? Best answer is probably to create some stored procedures which you
> call instead of plain INSERT; the stored procedure could then do
> whatever is needed to check for a duplicate (actually the easiest, I'd
> think, would be: if primary key is supplied, it is an UPDATE; if primary
> key is NULL or not supplied, it is an insert and the primary key will be
> auto-generated).

I don't really like the idea of stored procedure, because query would
depend on existence of it then. On the other side, it looks like best
option.

>
> --
> ? ? ? ? Wulfraed ? ? ? ? Dennis Lee Bieber ? ? ? ? ? ? ? KD6MOG
> ? ? ? ? wlfr... at ix.netcom.com ? ? HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/



From chris at simplistix.co.uk  Wed Aug 12 03:52:09 2009
From: chris at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 08:52:09 +0100
Subject: httplib incredibly slow :-(
In-Reply-To: <4A81FDF5.6010508@simplistix.co.uk>
References: 	
	<4A81FDF5.6010508@simplistix.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4A8274A9.7000905@simplistix.co.uk>

Answering myself...

Chris Withers wrote:
>> In article ,
>> Chris Withers   wrote:
>>> Does anyone know of an alternative library for creating http requests 
>>> and getting their responses that's faster but hopefully has a similar 
>>> interface?
>>
>> PyCurl
> 
> This seems to be a wrapper around libcurl.
> 
> Does it work on Windows?

Not by my definition of work:

- there are no windows binaries for libcurl

- getting https support on windows seems pretty hit'n'miss:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/197444/building-libcurl-with-ssl-support-on-windows

I'm still reeling from what seems to be such a huge problem with httplib 
that seem to be largely ignored :-(

Chris

-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting
            - http://www.simplistix.co.uk


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Aug 12 03:58:59 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 12 Aug 2009 07:58:59 GMT
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:50:51 -0700, rurpy wrote:

>>> The issue tracker is fine for many things, but the process it provides
>>> is equivalent to peep-hole optimization.  How does one submit a
>>> tracker issue for something like the overall organization of the docs
>>> (for example, the mis-placement of things like data- types in the
>>> library manual rather than the language manual)?
>>
>> The same way you would submit a tracker issue for anything.
>>
>> "Documentation bug: Data types are misplaced in the library manual
>> instead of the language manual.
>>
>> Suggested alternative: move page docs.python.org/xyz.html to abc.html"
> 
> But that's the problem.  Such a reorg is not a simple matter of moving a
> file from here to there.  It will require a lot moving about of sections
> and a lot of word-smithing to glue them back together again in a
> coherent way.

That's no different from *any* major refactoring. The exact same problem 
exists for code as well as documentation. It's a solved problem for code, 
and it's a solved problem for documentation.

In some order:

Consensus that there is a problem that needs solving;
Volunteer(s) to do the work;
Somebody to take responsibility to check the changes in.


Sometimes, in the face of apathy or disagreement (which may very well be 
justified), you have to at least partly solve the problem *before* people 
will agree that it needed to be solved. Welcome to the real world.



> A tracker issue, even one that was fairly specific about how things
> should be reorganized but which did not provide all the needed changes
> (a large patch) would almost certainly be ignored or rejected.

Yes it would. Most patches are ignored, because the dev team are 
overworked, and if they don't see the need for a patch, they won't 
approve it.



> But
> providing a large patch raises two questions.  How likely is it to be be
> accepted? (Something anyone would want to know before investing the
> time.) And how to actually do the work needed to generate it (it could
> be a very large amount of work for an individual and I don't think it
> can be broken down into small independent issues.) How is one to test
> the waters as to acceptability, or solicit help, if one simply submits a
> tracker issue?

No, submitting a tracker issue is a necessary but not sufficient step. 
Without a tracker issue, you're very unlikely to have people agree to 
replace the existing docs with your docs, although a PEP would probably 
do it. (A PEP is significantly more effort than raising a tracker issue.)

You also have to get attention from those with check-in privileges. If 
they approve your patches, you're done. If they don't approve them, or 
fail to respond, you can try convincing them, or taking it to the Python-
Dev list and request somebody review your patches.

If you have no patches, perhaps because you're unwilling to invest the 
effort without a guarantee that it will be treated seriously, then you 
need to get some sort of consensus among the relevant people that the 
problem is worth solving.

Guess what? Sometimes others will disagree with you. What you see as the 
Worst. Docs. EVAR. may be seen as perfectly adequate, even excellent, by 
others. If this is the case, remember, Python isn't your product, you 
don't have veto over what goes into it. Feel free to publish your 
alternatives. Write a book. Go home and cry into your beer over it. 
Whatever. Sometimes you win, and sometimes you don't.

This is the same process whether dealing with code or documentation.


>> - if people are keen on a Python wiki, then by all means publish one,
>> just don't expect the Python dev team to build and manage it for you;
> 
> As luminous a Pythoneer as Fredrik Lundh set up a documentation wiki to
> collect user contributions but it has faded away.  If he couldn't pull
> it off then I'd say most other attempts without the backing of
> python.org are almost certainly doomed to failure.

Perhaps that's a good indication that a Python wiki *doesn't* fulfill a 
need in the community, and that despite what a few squeaky wheels think, 
the docs *are* doing a good job?



> As long as every "the docs
> sux" complaint is met here with the standard responses that I've
> mentioned, 

But they aren't met with such a so-called "standard response".


> rather than, "yes, they do have some problems, what do you
> think we should do about them?", 

We know that there are problems. We've said repeatedly that corrections 
and patches are welcome. We've repeatedly told you how to communicate 
your answer to the question of what should be done. None of this is good 
enough for you. I don't know what else you expect.


>> If you won't put in the effort, and you won't put in the money, then it
>> won't happen. Moaning that other people aren't putting in the money to
>> hire team of professional writers isn't productive, and moaning that
>> other people aren't putting in the effort to improve the docs isn't
>> either.
> 
> Eh?  I have a computer filled with software that I put no money or
> effort into, yet there it is.  

Ah yes, I'm sorry, I missed one other alternative: sit around and wait 
for somebody else to put in the money and/or effort.

> That some of us choose to
> invest it somewhere other than Python does not deprive of of our right
> to point out problems in Python when we note them.

Of course not. But it does mean that you won't be taken seriously, and 
you have no right to be taken seriously.



-- 
Steven


From jai_dgl at yahoo.co.in  Wed Aug 12 04:15:01 2009
From: jai_dgl at yahoo.co.in (Jey Simhan)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 01:15:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
Message-ID: <1144938511.2842753.1250064901163.JavaMail.app@ech3-cdn13.prod>

LinkedIn
------------



   
I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn.

- Jey

Learn more:
https://www.linkedin.com/e/isd/682391381/2q9uIjvU/


 
------
(c) 2009, LinkedIn Corporation

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From simon at brunningonline.net  Wed Aug 12 04:21:24 2009
From: simon at brunningonline.net (Simon Brunning)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 09:21:24 +0100
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
In-Reply-To: <461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> 
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8c7f10c60908120121v4bbf9040h9da68a650ef48566@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/11 Robert Dailey :
> On Aug 11, 3:40?pm, Bearophile  wrote:
>> There are gals too here.
>
> It's a figure of speech. And besides, why would I want programming
> advice from a woman? lol. Thanks for the help.

Give the attitudes still prevalent in our industry (cf
 and many more), I'm sorry to say that I
don't think this is funny.

-- 
Cheers,
Simon B.


From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Wed Aug 12 04:43:09 2009
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 10:43:09 +0200
Subject: Scraping Wikipedia with Python
References: 
	<4a81b6f0$0$1590$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	
Message-ID: 

* Dotan Cohen (Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:29:40 +0300)
> > ? ?Wikipedia has an API for computer access. ?See
> >
> > ? ? ? ?http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API
> >
> 
> Yes, I am aware of this as well. Does anyone know of a python class
> for easily interacting with it, or do I need to roll my own.

http://pypi.python.org/pypi?%3Aaction=search&term=wikipedia ?

Thorsten 


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Wed Aug 12 04:45:51 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 10:45:51 +0200
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
In-Reply-To: <0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <200908121045.51808.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Tuesday 11 August 2009 19:53:16 Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> You want community input into the docs, but you're not willing to give
> that input except to bitch and moan and sook that the tracker is no good.

wtf does the verb  "sook" mean?

I find:

sook
??/s?k/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [sook] Show IPA
Use sook in a Sentence
?noun
1. 	Australia and New Zealand. a timid, cowardly person, esp. a young person; 
crybaby.
?interjection
2. 	Midland U.S. (used to summon cows from the pasture).
Origin:
1890?95; prob. from earlier sense ?calf reared by hand,? perh. suck(-calf), 
with sp. repr. N England, Scots pron. of suck (but earliest cited pron. of 
sook is (so?o?k))

Sometimes English drives me crazy.

- Hendrik


From andreengels at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 04:54:05 2009
From: andreengels at gmail.com (Andre Engels)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 10:54:05 +0200
Subject: looping through values in a dictionary and appending to a list
In-Reply-To: <4A817D6B0200008C00014A9B@redhorse.forestry.uga.edu>
References: <4A817D6B0200008C00014A9B@redhorse.forestry.uga.edu>
Message-ID: <6faf39c90908120154p41ac5211p64d7378d7e908190@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 8:17 PM, Krishna
Pacifici wrote:
> Nevermind,
> got it.
>
> Sorry.
>
>>>> Krishna Pacifici 08/11/09 2:12 PM >>>
> Hi,
> I want to append the values of a dictionary to a list.? I have a dictionary
> sec_dict_clean and I want to append the values to a list, but am having a
> hard time looping through the values in the dictionary.
>
> I have tried something like this:
> lista=[]
> for i in sec_dict_clean.values():
> ??? for j in sec_dict_clean.values()[i]:
> ??? ??? lista.append(sec_dict_clean.values()[i])
>
> But I keep on getting an error:
> TypeError: list indices must be integers
>
> Any ideas on how to loop through values in a dictionary?

lista=[]
for value in sec_dict_clean.values():
    lista.append(value)

but even simpler would be:

lista = sec_dict_clean.values()


-- 
Andr? Engels, andreengels at gmail.com


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Wed Aug 12 05:04:35 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:04:35 +0200
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
In-Reply-To: <461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <200908121104.35744.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Tuesday 11 August 2009 22:52:34 Robert Dailey wrote:
> On Aug 11, 3:40?pm, Bearophile  wrote:
> > Robert Dailey:
> > > This breaks the flow of scope. Would you guys solve this
> > > problem by moving failMsg into global scope?
> > > Perhaps through some other type of syntax?
> >
> > There are gals too here.
> > This may
> > help:http://docs.python.org/library/textwrap.html#textwrap.dedent
> >
> > Bye,
> > bearophile
>
> It's a figure of speech. And besides, why would I want programming
> advice from a woman? lol. Thanks for the help.

Well it may come as a surprise to you, but it was a woman who
wrote one of the first compilers.

She became an Admiral in the US navy as a result.

If I recall correctly, her name was Grace Hooper.

How many compilers have you written from scratch,
without a compiler to help you?

:-)

- Hendrik



From fzgillani at live.com  Wed Aug 12 05:29:58 2009
From: fzgillani at live.com (fakhar Gillani)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:29:58 +0200
Subject: loops for ffmpeg CLI in python
Message-ID: 


 

Hi,

 

I am a begineer in Python. Actually I am encoding video files with different bitrates using ffmpeg CLI. I wanted to ask you that how can I make loops so that I can vary the bitrates in the CLI of ffmpeg??

 

I want to bulid a loop for the command below where i just want to vary the -vb parameter i.e. 10M. 

 

ffmpeg.exe -i sample.avi -y -f h264 -vb 10M -r 25 encoded_1000_0-05.h264

 

I have tried to make simple loops but it doest work:(

 

Can anyone here help me out?

 

Regards,

Gillani

 

 

_________________________________________________________________
Share your memories online with anyone you want.
http://www.microsoft.com/middleeast/windows/windowslive/products/photos-share.aspx?tab=1
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From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Aug 12 05:32:01 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 12 Aug 2009 09:32:01 GMT
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<3611ca55-79a6-4336-9041-07d0893789f7@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
	<0447e8a2-508d-45b2-8d15-da0cc2a56b5f@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	
	<494d80f1-0b47-468c-bdd9-7a087f6d915c@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:29:43 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:

> I need to preface this entire post with the fact that I've already used
> ALL of the arguments that you've provided on my friend before I ever
> even came here with the topic, and my own arguments on why Python can be
> considered to be doing the right thing on this issue didn't even
> convince ME, much less him. When I can't even convince myself with an
> argument I'm making, then you know there's a problem with it!


I hear all your arguments, and to play Devil's Advocate I repeat them, 
and they don't convince me either. So by your logic, there's obviously a 
problem with your arguments as well!

That problem basically boils down to a deep-seated philosophical 
disagreement over which philosophy a language should follow in regard to 
backslash escapes:

"Anything not explicitly permitted is forbidden"

versus  

"Anything not explicitly forbidden is permitted"

Python explicitly permits all escape sequences, with well-defined 
behaviour, with the only ones forbidden being those explicitly forbidden:

* hex escapes with invalid hex digits;

* oct escapes with invalid oct digits;

* Unicode named escapes with unknown names;

* 16- and 32-bit Unicode escapes with invalid hex digits.

C++ apparently forbids all escape sequences, with unspecified behaviour 
if you use a forbidden sequence, except for a handful of explicitly 
permitted sequences.

That's not better, it's merely different.

Actually, that's not true -- that the C++ standard forbids a thing, but 
leaves the consequences of doing that thing unspecified, is clearly a Bad 
Thing.



[...]

>> Apart from the lack of warning, what actually is the difference between
>> Python's behavior and C++'s behavior?
> 
> That question makes just about as much sense as, "Apart from the lack of
> a fatal error, what actually is the difference between Python's behavior
> and C++'s?"

This is what I get:

[steve ~]$ cat test.cc
#include 
int main(int argc, char* argv[])
{
std::cout << "x\yz" << std::endl;
return 0;
}
[steve ~]$ g++ test.cc -o test
test.cc:4:14: warning: unknown escape sequence '\y'
[steve at soy ~]$ ./test
xyz


So on at least one machine in the world, C++ simply strips out 
backslashes that it doesn't recognise, leaving the suffix. Unfortunately, 
we can't rely on that, because C++ is underspecified. Fortunately this is 
not a problem with Python, which does completely specify the behaviour of 
escape sequences so there are no surprises. 



[...]

>> I disagree with your sense of aesthetics. I think that having to write
>> \\y when I want \y just to satisfy a bondage-and-discipline compiler is
>> ugly. That's not to deny that B&D isn't useful on occasion, but in this
>> case I believe the benefit is negligible, and so even a tiny cost is
>> not worth the pain.
> 
> EXPLICIT IS BETTER THAN IMPLICIT.

Quoting the Zen without understanding (especially shouting) doesn't 
impress anyone. There's nothing implicit about escape sequences. \y is 
perfectly explicit. Look Ma, there's a backslash, and a y, it gives a 
backslash and a y!

Implicit has an actual meaning. You shouldn't use it as a mere term of 
opprobrium for anything you don't like.



>> > (2) That argument disagrees with the Python reference manual, which
>> > explicitly states that "unrecognized escape sequences are left in the
>> > string unchanged", and that the purpose for doing so is because it
>> > "is useful when debugging".
>>
>> How does it disagree? \y in the source code mapping to \y in the string
>> object is the sequence being left unchanged. And the usefulness of
>> doing so is hardly a disagreement over the fact that it does so.
> 
> Because you've stated that "\y" is a legal escape sequence, while the
> Python Reference Manual explicitly states that it is an "unrecognized
> escape sequence", and that such "unrecognized escape sequences" are
> sources of bugs.

There's that reading comprehension problem again.

Unrecognised != illegal.

"Useful for debugging" != "source of bugs". If they were equal, we could 
fix an awful lot of bugs by throwing away our debugging tools.

Here's the URL to the relevant page:
http://www.python.org/doc/2.5.2/ref/strings.html

It seems to me that the behaviour the Python designers were looking to 
avoid was the case where the coder accidentally inserted a backslash in 
the wrong place, and the language stripped the backslash out, e.g.:

Wanted "a\bcd" but accidentally typed "ab\cd" instead, and got "abcd".

(This is what Bash does by design, and at least some C/C++ compilers do, 
perhaps by accident, perhaps by design.)

In that case, with no obvious backslash, the user may not even be aware 
that there was a problem:

s = "ab\cd"  # assume the backslash is silently discarded
assert len(s) == 4
assert s[3] == 'c'
assert '\\' not in s

All of these tests would wrongly pass, but with Python's behaviour of 
leaving the backslash in, they would all fail, and the string is visually 
distinctive (it has an obvious backslash in it).

Now, if you consider that \c should be an error, then obviously it would 
be even better if "ab\cd" would raise a SyntaxError. But why consider \c 
to be an error?



[invalid hex escape sequences]

>> > What makes it "illegal". As far as I can tell, it's just another
>> > "unrecognized escape sequence".
>>
>> No, it's recognized, because \x is the prefix for an hexadecimal escape
>> code. And it's illegal, because it's missing the actual hexadecimal
>> digits.
> 
> So? Why does that make it "illegal" rather than merely "unrecognized?"

Because the empty string is not a legal pair of hex digits.

In '\y', the suffix y is a legal character, but it isn't recognized as a 
"special" character.

In '\x', the suffix '' is not a pair of hex digits. Since hex-escapes are 
documented as requiring a pair of hex digits, this is an error.


[...]
> Because anyone with common sense will agree that "\y" is an illegal
> escape sequence. 

"No True Scotsman would design a language that behaves like that!!!!"

Why should it be illegal? It seems like a perfectly valid escape sequence 
to me, so long as the semantics are specified explicitly.



[...]

>> > It may not be a complex form of DWIMing, but it's still DWIMing a
>> > bit.  Python is figuring that if I typed "\z", then either I must
>> > have really meant to type "\\z",
>>
>> Nope, not in the least. Python NEVER EVER EVER tries to guess what you
>> mean.
> 
> Neither does Perl. That doesn't mean that Perl isn't often DWIMy.

Fine, but we're not discussing Perl, we're discussing Python. Perl's DWIM-
iness is irrelevant.



>> This is *exactly* like C++, except that in Python the semantics of \y
>> and \\y are identical. Python doesn't guess what you mean, it *imposes*
>> a meaning on the escape sequence. You just don't like that meaning.
> 
> That's because I don't like things that are ill-conceived.

And yet you like C++... go figure *wink*


-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Aug 12 05:39:16 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 12 Aug 2009 09:39:16 GMT
Subject: hashability
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 00:33:01 -0700, James Stroud wrote:

> Tell that to two different machines on two different days. Then bet the
> life of yourself and your nearest and dearest family on that fact and
> see whether you really want to take a hash value for granted. 

As far as I know, Python doesn't make any guarantees about hashes being 
repeatable on different machines, different versions, or even different 
runs of the interpreter.


> If a
> property of the python language fails the "bet the lives of your nearest
> and dearest on a consistent result" test, I call it "ill defined" and,
> subjectively speaking, I prefer exceptions to be thrown--And, by damned,
> I'll throw them myself if I have to.
> 
> "If it saves one life, it's worth it all."

Depends on the life, and the cost. Would you pay a million dollars from 
your own pocket to save the life of a 119 year old with advanced lung 
cancer, a bad heart, and a raging infection of Ebola, from choking on a 
fish bone?

What if the effort of saving that one life kills two lives? Opportunity 
costs are costs too.




-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Wed Aug 12 05:40:25 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 12 Aug 2009 09:40:25 GMT
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 10:45:51 +0200, Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:

> On Tuesday 11 August 2009 19:53:16 Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
>> You want community input into the docs, but you're not willing to give
>> that input except to bitch and moan and sook that the tracker is no
>> good.
> 
> wtf does the verb  "sook" mean?
> 
> I find:
> 
> sook
> ??/s?k/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [sook] Show IPA
> Use sook in a Sentence
> ?noun
> 1. 	Australia and New Zealand. a timid, cowardly person, esp. a young
> person; crybaby.


That's the one. It's also used as a verb.




-- 
Steven


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Aug 12 06:01:55 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:01:55 +0100
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
In-Reply-To: <200908121104.35744.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
References: 	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<200908121104.35744.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
Message-ID: <4A829313.5010709@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:
> On Tuesday 11 August 2009 22:52:34 Robert Dailey wrote:
>> On Aug 11, 3:40 pm, Bearophile  wrote:
>>> Robert Dailey:
>>>> This breaks the flow of scope. Would you guys solve this
>>>> problem by moving failMsg into global scope?
>>>> Perhaps through some other type of syntax?
>>> There are gals too here.
>>> This may
>>> help:http://docs.python.org/library/textwrap.html#textwrap.dedent
>>>
>>> Bye,
>>> bearophile
>> It's a figure of speech. And besides, why would I want programming
>> advice from a woman? lol. Thanks for the help.
> 
> Well it may come as a surprise to you, but it was a woman who
> wrote one of the first compilers.
> 
> She became an Admiral in the US navy as a result.
> 
> If I recall correctly, her name was Grace Hooper.
> 
Grace Hopper. The saying "It's easier to ask forgiveness than it is to
get permission" is attributed to her.

> How many compilers have you written from scratch,
> without a compiler to help you?
> 
> :-)
> 



From mdekauwe at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 06:15:30 2009
From: mdekauwe at gmail.com (Martin)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 03:15:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: matching patterns after regex?
Message-ID: <61bef795-f146-4bdd-b5b3-a212e6d9197c@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I have a string (see below) and ideally I would like to pull out the
decimal number which follows the bounding coordinate information. For
example ideal from this string I would return...

s = '\nGROUP                  = ARCHIVEDMETADATA\n
GROUPTYPE            = MASTERGROUP\n\n  GROUP                  =
BOUNDINGRECTANGLE\n\n    OBJECT                 =
NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n      NUM_VAL              = 1\n
VALUE                = 19.9999999982039\n    END_OBJECT             =
NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n\n    OBJECT                 =
SOUTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n      NUM_VAL              = 1\n
VALUE                = 9.99999999910197\n    END_OBJECT             =
SOUTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n\n    OBJECT                 =
EASTBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n      NUM_VAL              = 1\n
VALUE                = 10.6506458717851\n    END_OBJECT             =
EASTBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n\n    OBJECT                 =
WESTBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n      NUM_VAL              = 1\n
VALUE                = 4.3188348375893e-15\n    END_OBJECT
= WESTBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n\n  END_GROUP


NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE = 19.9999999982039
SOUTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE = 9.99999999910197
EASTBOUNDINGCOORDINATE = 10.6506458717851
WESTBOUNDINGCOORDINATE = 4.3188348375893e-15

so far I have only managed to extract the numbers by doing re.findall
("[\d.]*\d", s), which returns

['1',
 '19.9999999982039',
 '1',
 '9.99999999910197',
 '1',
 '10.6506458717851',
 '1',
 '4.3188348375893',
 '15',
etc.

Now the first problem that I can see is that my string match chops off
the "e-15" part and I am not sure how to incorporate the potential for
that in my pattern match. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I
could also match this? Ideally I would have a statement which printed
the number between the two bounding coordinate strings for example

NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n      NUM_VAL              = 1\n
VALUE                = 19.9999999982039\n    END_OBJECT             =
NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n\n

Something that matched "NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE" and printed the
decimal number before it hit the next string
"NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE". But I am not sure how to do this. any
suggestions would be appreciated.

Many thanks

Martin


From phd at phd.pp.ru  Wed Aug 12 06:24:53 2009
From: phd at phd.pp.ru (Oleg Broytmann)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:24:53 +0400
Subject: SQLObject 0.11.0
Message-ID: <20090812102452.GE5602@phd.pp.ru>

Hello!

I'm pleased to announce version 0.11.0, the first stable release of 0.11 branch
of SQLObject.


What is SQLObject
=================

SQLObject is an object-relational mapper.  Your database tables are described
as classes, and rows are instances of those classes.  SQLObject is meant to be
easy to use and quick to get started with.

SQLObject supports a number of backends: MySQL, PostgreSQL, SQLite,
Firebird, Sybase, MSSQL and MaxDB (also known as SAPDB).


Where is SQLObject
==================

Site:
http://sqlobject.org

Development:
http://sqlobject.org/devel/

Mailing list:
https://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/sqlobject-discuss

Archives:
http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.sqlobject

Download:
http://cheeseshop.python.org/pypi/SQLObject/0.11.0

News and changes:
http://sqlobject.org/News.html


What's New
==========

News since 0.10
-----------------

Features & Interface
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

* Dropped support for Python 2.3. The minimal version of Python for
  SQLObject is 2.4 now.

* Dropped support for PostgreSQL 7.2. The minimal supported version of
  PostgreSQL is 7.3 now.

* New magic attribute 'j' similar to 'q' was added that automagically does
  join with the other table in MultipleJoin or RelatedJoin.

* SQLObject can now create and drop a database in MySQL, PostgreSQL, SQLite
  and Firebird/Interbase.

* Added some support for schemas in PostgreSQL.

* Added DecimalStringCol - similar to DecimalCol but stores data as strings
  to work around problems in some drivers and type affinity problem in
  SQLite.

* Added sqlobject.include.hashcol.HashCol - a column type that automatically
  hashes anything going into it, and returns out an object that hashes
  anything being compared to itself. Basically, it's good for really simple
  one-way password fields, and it even supports the assignment of None to
  indicate no password set. By default, it uses the md5 library for
  hashing, but this can be changed in a HashCol definition.

* RowDestroyedSignal and RowUpdatedSignal were added.

Minor features
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

* Use reversed() in manager/command.py instead of .__reversed__().

* Minor change in logging to console - logger no longer stores the output
  file, it gets the file from module sys every time by name; this means
  logging will use new sys.stdout (or stderr) in case the user changed
  them.

* Changed the order of testing of SQLite modules - look for external
  PySQLite2 before sqlite3.

For a more complete list, please see the news:
http://sqlobject.org/News.html

Oleg.
-- 
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.


From paul at boddie.org.uk  Wed Aug 12 06:32:08 2009
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 03:32:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <7f7c3e90-6026-411f-8b4a-829798819128@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>

On 12 Aug, 09:58, Steven D'Aprano
 wrote:
>
> We know that there are problems. We've said repeatedly that corrections
> and patches are welcome. We've repeatedly told you how to communicate
> your answer to the question of what should be done. None of this is good
> enough for you. I don't know what else you expect.

Maybe the problem is that although everyone welcomes contributions and
changes (or says that they do), the mechanisms remain largely beyond
criticism. Consequently, one sees occasional laments about there not
being enough people contributing to Python core development and soul-
searching about the reasons this might be so. If it were insisted that
changes to, say, Wikipedia were to be proposed by submitting a patch
or report for perusal by the editors and for future inclusion in some
version of the project, the whole project would most likely be a
shadow of its current self, and ambitions of large-scale collaborative
editing in general would still be ridiculed.

A free-for-all isn't likely to be the best solution for more actively
edited Python documentation, but Wiki solutions undeniably provide a
superior "fast path" for edits by trusted users to be incorporated and
published in accessible end-user documentation. Almost every analysis
of the current (and previous) documentation mechanisms has identified
the editorial workflow as a bottleneck and then proceeded to replicate
such a bottleneck in any proposed solution. I'm starting to believe
that there's a certain snobbery about Wiki solutions which lead many
people to develop all sorts of short-term, arcane solutions under the
illusion that something super-special and customised is necessary and
that they have to start virtually from scratch in order to cater to
the ultra-special needs of the target audience; by the time they're
done, no-one's interested any more, except to propose the next legacy
system in the making.

[...]

> > That some of us choose to
> > invest it somewhere other than Python does not deprive of of our right
> > to point out problems in Python when we note them.
>
> Of course not. But it does mean that you won't be taken seriously, and
> you have no right to be taken seriously.

That's an absurd position that has soured the reputation of numerous
projects. When someone spends the time to write a bug report, they are
often investing as much time and effort in something that they are
able to in any productive sense. I make a habit of submitting bug
reports to software distributions, typically so that the people who
are responsible for the components involved can investigate the
problem effectively. When the maintainers just close such reports or
mark them with a number of different labels which mostly indicate that
they consider those reports not worth their time, it sends the message
that they consider their time to be vastly more important than their
users, even though their users might have set aside an hour of their
potentially busy schedule which might have meant sacrificing something
else that should have taken higher priority (like time for sleeping,
in my own personal experience). Thus, I've had the impression with
some projects that I should be maintaining all sorts of stuff - the
bootloader, the kernel, various desktop applications, Mozilla - all so
that stuff actually gets fixed and that I'm not perceived as just
another user whose bug reports aren't welcome. I don't find this
reasonable at all when in many cases there *are* people getting paid
to do these jobs.

The Python core developers seem more attentive than in various other
projects, but please let us not establish the "delicate genius"
mentality that has infested other projects to the point that any
criticism is automatically labelled as ungrateful whining by people
who supposedly don't use the software, have an axe to grind, and who
are apparent simpletons who don't understand the revolutionary vision
of the project leadership. If you think throwing away goodwill is an
acceptable way of silencing complaints, please take a look at just
about any article about KDE 4 that permits reader comments to see how
much goodwill can be lost and what effect that has on a project's
reputation.

Paul


From davea at ieee.org  Wed Aug 12 07:05:39 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 07:05:39 -0400
Subject: adding multiple new values to the same key in a dictionary
In-Reply-To: <4A822900.7030008@ieee.org>
References: <4A8192A30200008C00014AB9@redhorse.forestry.uga.edu>
	<4A822900.7030008@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <4A82A203.6030408@ieee.org>

Dave Angel wrote:
> Krishna Pacifici wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I want to be able to add multiple new values to a key in a dictionary.
>>
>> I have tried the following:
>>
>> sec_dict_clean=
>> {88: [87, 89, 78, 98], 58: [57, 59, 48, 68], 69: [79], 95: [94, 96, 85]}
>>
>> for i in range(len(sec_dict_clean.values())):
>>     for j in range(len(sec_dict_clean.values()[i])):
>>         
>> sec_dict_clean.setdefault(key,[]).append(blocks[sec_dict_clean.values()[i][j]].abundance) 
>>
>>
>> where blocks[...].abundance gives me a single value from an object,
>>
>> but this gives me the following:
>>
>> sec_dict_clean=
>> {88: [87, 89, 78, 98], 58: [57, 59, 48, 68], 69: [79], 95: [94, 96, 
>> 85, 4, 12, 11, 6, 9, 12, 11, 7, 10, 10, 12, 9, 6, 12, 15, 9, 8, 12, 
>> 15, 12, 12]}
>>
>> instead I want each abundance (starts with 4, 12...) to be associated 
>> with each of the values so that it would look like this:
>>
>> sec_dict_clean=
>> {88: ([87, 89, 78, 98], [4,12,11,6]), 58: ([57, 59, 48, 68], 
>> [9,12,11,7]), 69: ([79], [10])...}
>>
>> You can see there are several errors here (I have more things being 
>> appended than there are values in the dictionary), but I really just 
>> want to know how to add multiple values to the same key in a dictionary.
>>
>> Thanks for any help,
>> Krishna
>>
>>
>>
>>   
> You're really distorting the purposes of both dictionary and list 
> here.  It makes your code totally unreadable, which makes it hard to 
> write, and hard to debug.
>
> A dictionary is a mapping between key and value, where each key has 
> exactly one value.  You cannot add another one to it.   All you can do 
> is make the value something which is itself a collection.  Now, your 
> desired dictionary looks achievable, almost.  If you change the parens 
> (tuple) to square brackets (list), then it'll work.
>    So key 88 has a single value, which is a list of two items.  Each 
> of those items is itself a list with 4 items.  And each of those items 
> are integers.
>
> But then I got bogged down in your sample code.  I tried to simplify 
> it, replacing the first two lines with these three:
>
> for i, key in enumerate(sec_dict_clean):
>    val = sec_dict_clean[key]
>    for j, xxx in enumerate(val):
>        
> ???sec_dict_clean.setdefault(key,[]).append(blocks[sec_dict_clean.values()[i][j]].abundance) 
>
>
> But I can't make head nor tail of the third line.  You didn't have a 
> variable key, so I don't know if I'm using the same one..  Since I 
> can't figure out what you were trying to do, I can't see how to fix it.
>
> I think the problem here is you're trying to reorganize the data as 
> well as adding to it, in a single pass.  So is some previous code 
> generating the dictionary incorrectly, and instead of fixing that, 
> you're trying to reorganize it here?
>
> To make each dictionary value a list of lists:
>
> sec_dict_clean=
> {88: [87, 89, 78, 98], 58: [57, 59, 48, 68], 69: [79], 95: [94, 96, 85]}
>
> for key in sec_dict_clean:
>    sec_dict_clean[key] = [sec_dict_clean[key]]
>
> now,  the dict looks like:
> {88: [[87, 89, 78, 98, 3]], 58: [[57, 59, 48, 68]], 69: [[79]], 95: 
> [[94, 96, 85]]}
>
> At this point, if you have some interesting data to add to it, you can 
> just append a new list to
>     dict[key]
>
> In an earlier message, you mentioned fields a and b, and assuming this 
> is a similar problem, it would seem that 87 is somehow associated with 
> 4, and 89 with 12, and so on.  If that's the case, perhaps your 
> desired final structure might look more like:
>
> {88: [[87,4], [89,12], [78, 11],[98, 6],   58: [[57, 9], [59, 12], 
> [48, 11], [68, 7]],   69: ...}
>
>
> In this case, the structure is entirely different.  But the approach 
> is the same.  And at least you'd be getting closer to the object 
> approach where  [87,4] is replaced by an object of some type.
>
> BTW, please don't top-post.  When you reply to this one, put your 
> reply at the end, or sometimes interspersed.  But if you put it at the 
> beginning, it's out of order.
>
> DaveA
>
>
>
>
Look at the following (tested in Python 2.6.2).,  There are a number of 
things that could be cleaner, mainly the names of things.  I should 
never be calling something "value" unless it's a very generic routine.


class Sample(object):
    def __init__(self, mainval):
        self.mainval = mainval
        self.a = self.b = None
    def set_tags(self, a, b):
        self.a = a
        self.b = b
    def __repr__(self):
        return "<" + str(self.mainval) + " a=" + str(self.a) + " b=" + 
str(self.b) + ">"


diction2 = {88: [Sample(87), Sample(89), Sample(98), Sample(3)],
            58: [Sample(57), Sample(59), Sample(48), Sample(68)],
            69: [Sample(79)]
                 }

print diction2

for key, valuelist in diction2.iteritems():
    for item in valuelist:
        item.set_tags(12, 106)             #here's where you'd be using 
that mysterious blocks dictionary

print diction2



DaveA


From andrew at acooke.org  Wed Aug 12 07:49:06 2009
From: andrew at acooke.org (andrew cooke)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 04:49:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Frustrated with scopes
References: <28f6f8e1-2689-4ff3-b453-e6c8859d2c43@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 12, 1:51?am, James Stroud 
wrote:
> andrew cooke wrote:
> > Is there a way to make this work (currently scope and join are
> > undefined at runtime when the inner class attributes are defined):
>
> > class _StreamFactory(object):
>
> > ? ? @staticmethod
> > ? ? def __call__(lines, source, join=''.join):
>
> > ? ? ? ? class Line(object):
>
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? __source = source
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? __join = join
> > [...]
>
> It would be helpful if you were to describe the type of behavior you expect.

Sorry, I didn't make myself clear.  When run the code gives
 NameError: name 'source' is not defined
because the class namespace blocks the function namespace (or
something...).

Andrew


From andrew at acooke.org  Wed Aug 12 07:51:37 2009
From: andrew at acooke.org (andrew cooke)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 04:51:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Frustrated with scopes
References: <28f6f8e1-2689-4ff3-b453-e6c8859d2c43@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <4288a429-c7be-47a5-be06-7a53879d1767@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 12, 7:49?am, andrew cooke  wrote:
> On Aug 12, 1:51?am, James Stroud 
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > andrew cooke wrote:
> > > Is there a way to make this work (currently scope and join are
> > > undefined at runtime when the inner class attributes are defined):
>
> > > class _StreamFactory(object):
>
> > > ? ? @staticmethod
> > > ? ? def __call__(lines, source, join=''.join):
>
> > > ? ? ? ? class Line(object):
>
> > > ? ? ? ? ? ? __source = source
> > > ? ? ? ? ? ? __join = join
> > > [...]
>
> > It would be helpful if you were to describe the type of behavior you expect.
>
> Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. ?When run the code gives
> ?NameError: name 'source' is not defined
> because the class namespace blocks the function namespace (or
> something...).

ie when the __call__ method is invoked on an instance of
_StreamFactory.

> Andrew



From bernard.chhun at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 07:53:19 2009
From: bernard.chhun at gmail.com (Bernard)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 04:53:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: matching patterns after regex?
References: <61bef795-f146-4bdd-b5b3-a212e6d9197c@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2387d409-110a-451d-b301-6d7fe4abc793@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On 12 ao?t, 06:15, Martin  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a string (see below) and ideally I would like to pull out the
> decimal number which follows the bounding coordinate information. For
> example ideal from this string I would return...
>
> s = '\nGROUP ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?= ARCHIVEDMETADATA\n
> GROUPTYPE ? ? ? ? ? ?= MASTERGROUP\n\n ?GROUP ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?=
> BOUNDINGRECTANGLE\n\n ? ?OBJECT ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? =
> NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n ? ? ?NUM_VAL ? ? ? ? ? ? ?= 1\n
> VALUE ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?= 19.9999999982039\n ? ?END_OBJECT ? ? ? ? ? ? =
> NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n\n ? ?OBJECT ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? =
> SOUTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n ? ? ?NUM_VAL ? ? ? ? ? ? ?= 1\n
> VALUE ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?= 9.99999999910197\n ? ?END_OBJECT ? ? ? ? ? ? =
> SOUTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n\n ? ?OBJECT ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? =
> EASTBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n ? ? ?NUM_VAL ? ? ? ? ? ? ?= 1\n
> VALUE ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?= 10.6506458717851\n ? ?END_OBJECT ? ? ? ? ? ? =
> EASTBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n\n ? ?OBJECT ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? =
> WESTBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n ? ? ?NUM_VAL ? ? ? ? ? ? ?= 1\n
> VALUE ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?= 4.3188348375893e-15\n ? ?END_OBJECT
> = WESTBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n\n ?END_GROUP
>
> NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE = 19.9999999982039
> SOUTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE = 9.99999999910197
> EASTBOUNDINGCOORDINATE = 10.6506458717851
> WESTBOUNDINGCOORDINATE = 4.3188348375893e-15
>
> so far I have only managed to extract the numbers by doing re.findall
> ("[\d.]*\d", s), which returns
>
> ['1',
> ?'19.9999999982039',
> ?'1',
> ?'9.99999999910197',
> ?'1',
> ?'10.6506458717851',
> ?'1',
> ?'4.3188348375893',
> ?'15',
> etc.
>
> Now the first problem that I can see is that my string match chops off
> the "e-15" part and I am not sure how to incorporate the potential for
> that in my pattern match. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I
> could also match this? Ideally I would have a statement which printed
> the number between the two bounding coordinate strings for example
>
> NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n ? ? ?NUM_VAL ? ? ? ? ? ? ?= 1\n
> VALUE ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?= 19.9999999982039\n ? ?END_OBJECT ? ? ? ? ? ? =
> NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n\n
>
> Something that matched "NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE" and printed the
> decimal number before it hit the next string
> "NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE". But I am not sure how to do this. any
> suggestions would be appreciated.
>
> Many thanks
>
> Martin

Hey Martin,

here's a regex I've just tested : (\w+COORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.
\w-]+)

the first match corresponds to the whateverBOUNDINGCOORDINATE and the
second match is the value.

please provide some more entries if you'd like me to test my regex
some more :)

cheers

Bernard


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Wed Aug 12 08:08:40 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 12 Aug 2009 12:08:40 GMT
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	
	<7f7c3e90-6026-411f-8b4a-829798819128@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0292a134$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 03:32:08 -0700, Paul Boddie wrote:

> On 12 Aug, 09:58, Steven D'Aprano
>  wrote:
>>
>> We know that there are problems. We've said repeatedly that corrections
>> and patches are welcome. We've repeatedly told you how to communicate
>> your answer to the question of what should be done. None of this is
>> good enough for you. I don't know what else you expect.
> 
> Maybe the problem is that although everyone welcomes contributions and
> changes (or says that they do), the mechanisms remain largely beyond
> criticism. Consequently, one sees occasional laments about there not
> being enough people contributing to Python core development and soul-
> searching about the reasons this might be so. If it were insisted that
> changes to, say, Wikipedia were to be proposed by submitting a patch or
> report for perusal by the editors and for future inclusion in some
> version of the project, the whole project would most likely be a shadow
> of its current self, and ambitions of large-scale collaborative editing
> in general would still be ridiculed.

If Python had the tens of thousands of users, and hundreds of trusted 
(for some definition of trusted) editors, then Python could run using the 
same model as Wikipedia. The Wikipedia model is great, and I contribute 
to it myself.

But Wikipedia gets its users from the entire population of web-users, 
because there's something of interest to everyone in Wikipedia. 
Interested in movies? There are Wikipedia pages for you to contribute to. 
Interested in medicine? There are pages you can help with. Interested in 
the history and development of the mechanical pencil? There's probably 
even a page for you. And if there isn't, you can create one.

With tens of millions of web users, it's no surprise that Wikipedia can 
attract thousands of editors. But this does not apply to Python, which 
starts from a comparatively tiny population, primarily those interested 
in Python. Have a look at the Wikipedia page for Python. The Talk Page 
has comments from no more than *eight* people. The History stats suggest 
that, over seven years, only sixty-nine people have made more than a 
single edit to the page, most of them having made just two edits. Just 36 
people have made more than two edits, and some of those are bots. Only 
one user, Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters (David Mertz), has made more than 100 
edits.


> A free-for-all isn't likely to be the best solution for more actively
> edited Python documentation, but Wiki solutions undeniably provide a
> superior "fast path" for edits by trusted users to be incorporated and
> published in accessible end-user documentation. 

And the Python time-machine strikes again:

http://wiki.python.org/moin/


>> > That some of us choose to
>> > invest it somewhere other than Python does not deprive of of our
>> > right to point out problems in Python when we note them.
>>
>> Of course not. But it does mean that you won't be taken seriously, and
>> you have no right to be taken seriously.
> 
> That's an absurd position that has soured the reputation of numerous
> projects. When someone spends the time to write a bug report, they are
> often investing as much time and effort in something that they are able
> to in any productive sense. 

Firstly, in context, I wasn't talking to somebody who had made bug 
reports. I was talking to somebody whose only contribution, as near as I 
can tell, was to loudly complain that there are flaws in the Python 
documentation and insist that somebody else should fix them just the way 
he wants them fixed -- without being willing to even explain how he wants 
them fixed. Possibly the developers are expected to intuit from first 
principles what he wants.

Secondly, the world is full of complainers who won't lift a finger to 
help but demand others help them. It may be unfair to tar everybody with 
the same brush, but life is to short and time to valuable to avoid making 
judgements as to who to pay attention to. Those who invest a lot of 
effort into providing patches get listened to closely; so do those who 
make good quality detailed bug reports. Those who just say "It's broken, 
fix it" don't. Sometimes that will mean that someone with genuinely good 
ideas will be ignored, but that's the price one pays for avoiding being 
drowned by a chorus of trivial, contradictory, vague and insubstantial 
complaints.

If the Python Dev team paid attention to every post here claiming that 
Python "has a bug" when the bug was actually in the complainant's own 
code, we'd probably still be running Python 1.5.


> I make a habit of submitting bug reports to
> software distributions, typically so that the people who are responsible
> for the components involved can investigate the problem effectively.
> When the maintainers just close such reports or mark them with a number
> of different labels which mostly indicate that they consider those
> reports not worth their time, it sends the message that they consider
> their time to be vastly more important than their users, even though
> their users might have set aside an hour of their potentially busy
> schedule which might have meant sacrificing something else that should
> have taken higher priority (like time for sleeping, in my own personal
> experience).

Oh dear me. You mean that they don't agree that YOUR time is more 
important than theirs??? What horrible people they must be, to expect you 
to sacrifice some of your sleep time just so *they* can get some sleep 
themselves!!! Who do they think they are???



-- 
Steven


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Aug 12 08:12:14 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:12:14 +0200
Subject: Frustrated with scopes
References: <28f6f8e1-2689-4ff3-b453-e6c8859d2c43@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<4288a429-c7be-47a5-be06-7a53879d1767@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7efpsuF2fvcq5U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

andrew cooke wrote:

> On Aug 12, 7:49?am, andrew cooke  wrote:
>> On Aug 12, 1:51?am, James Stroud 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > andrew cooke wrote:
>> > > Is there a way to make this work (currently scope and join are
>> > > undefined at runtime when the inner class attributes are defined):
>>
>> > > class _StreamFactory(object):
>>
>> > > @staticmethod
>> > > def __call__(lines, source, join=''.join):
>>
>> > > class Line(object):
>>
>> > > __source = source
>> > > __join = join
>> > > [...]
>>
>> > It would be helpful if you were to describe the type of behavior you
>> > expect.
>>
>> Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. ?When run the code gives
>> NameError: name 'source' is not defined
>> because the class namespace blocks the function namespace (or
>> something...).
> 
> ie when the __call__ method is invoked on an instance of
> _StreamFactory.

But you can refer to the arguments if you don't insist on setting them as
class-attributes:




def factory(foo, bar):

    class A(object):

        def do_something(self):
            print foo, bar

    return A()

a = factory(10, 20)
a.do_something()



Diez


From mdekauwe at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 08:12:22 2009
From: mdekauwe at gmail.com (Martin)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 05:12:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: matching patterns after regex?
References: <61bef795-f146-4bdd-b5b3-a212e6d9197c@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<2387d409-110a-451d-b301-6d7fe4abc793@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 12, 12:53 pm, Bernard  wrote:
> On 12 ao?t, 06:15, Martin  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi,
>
> > I have a string (see below) and ideally I would like to pull out the
> > decimal number which follows the bounding coordinate information. For
> > example ideal from this string I would return...
>
> > s = '\nGROUP                  = ARCHIVEDMETADATA\n
> > GROUPTYPE            = MASTERGROUP\n\n  GROUP                  =
> > BOUNDINGRECTANGLE\n\n    OBJECT                 =
> > NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n      NUM_VAL              = 1\n
> > VALUE                = 19.9999999982039\n    END_OBJECT             =
> > NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n\n    OBJECT                 =
> > SOUTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n      NUM_VAL              = 1\n
> > VALUE                = 9.99999999910197\n    END_OBJECT             =
> > SOUTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n\n    OBJECT                 =
> > EASTBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n      NUM_VAL              = 1\n
> > VALUE                = 10.6506458717851\n    END_OBJECT             =
> > EASTBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n\n    OBJECT                 =
> > WESTBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n      NUM_VAL              = 1\n
> > VALUE                = 4.3188348375893e-15\n    END_OBJECT
> > = WESTBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n\n  END_GROUP
>
> > NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE = 19.9999999982039
> > SOUTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE = 9.99999999910197
> > EASTBOUNDINGCOORDINATE = 10.6506458717851
> > WESTBOUNDINGCOORDINATE = 4.3188348375893e-15
>
> > so far I have only managed to extract the numbers by doing re.findall
> > ("[\d.]*\d", s), which returns
>
> > ['1',
> >  '19.9999999982039',
> >  '1',
> >  '9.99999999910197',
> >  '1',
> >  '10.6506458717851',
> >  '1',
> >  '4.3188348375893',
> >  '15',
> > etc.
>
> > Now the first problem that I can see is that my string match chops off
> > the "e-15" part and I am not sure how to incorporate the potential for
> > that in my pattern match. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I
> > could also match this? Ideally I would have a statement which printed
> > the number between the two bounding coordinate strings for example
>
> > NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n      NUM_VAL              = 1\n
> > VALUE                = 19.9999999982039\n    END_OBJECT             =
> > NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE\n\n
>
> > Something that matched "NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE" and printed the
> > decimal number before it hit the next string
> > "NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE". But I am not sure how to do this. any
> > suggestions would be appreciated.
>
> > Many thanks
>
> > Martin
>
> Hey Martin,
>
> here's a regex I've just tested : (\w+COORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.
> \w-]+)
>
> the first match corresponds to the whateverBOUNDINGCOORDINATE and the
> second match is the value.
>
> please provide some more entries if you'd like me to test my regex
> some more :)
>
> cheers
>
> Bernard

Thanks Bernard it doesn't seem to be working for me...

I tried

re.findall((\w+COORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.\w-]+),s)

is that what you meant? Apologies if not, that results in a syntax
error:

In [557]: re.findall((\w+COORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.\w-]+),s)
------------------------------------------------------------
   File "", line 1
     re.findall((\w+COORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.\w-]+),s)
                                                              ^
SyntaxError: unexpected character after line continuation character

Thanks





From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Wed Aug 12 08:20:26 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 12 Aug 2009 12:20:26 GMT
Subject: Frustrated with scopes
References: <28f6f8e1-2689-4ff3-b453-e6c8859d2c43@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <0292a3f6$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 04:49:06 -0700, andrew cooke wrote:

>> It would be helpful if you were to describe the type of behavior you
>> expect.
> 
> Sorry, I didn't make myself clear.  When run the code gives
>  NameError: name 'source' is not defined
> because the class namespace blocks the function namespace (or
> something...).

James asked you to describe the behaviour you expect. Please explain what 
you expect, and what you actually get. Post the ACTUAL error message, not 
a summary, not a paraphrase, but an actual copy and paste.


In any case, your code snippet works for me:


>>> class _StreamFactory(object):
...     @staticmethod
...     def __call__(lines, source, join=''.join):
...         class Line(object):
...             __source = source
...             __join = join
...
>>> obj = _StreamFactory()
>>> obj(['a', 'b'], "ab")
>>>

No errors. Of course it doesn't return anything, because your code 
snippet doesn't return anything either. Here's a modified version which 
returns the inner class:

>>> class _StreamFactory2(object):
...     @staticmethod
...     def __call__(lines, source, join=''.join):
...         class Line(object):
...             __source = source
...             __join = join
...         return Line
...
>>> obj = _StreamFactory2()
>>> K = obj(['a', 'b'], "ab")
>>> K

>>> K._Line__source
'ab'


Works perfectly. I suspect your error is probably something like you have 
misspelled "source" somewhere.


-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Wed Aug 12 08:23:25 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 12 Aug 2009 12:23:25 GMT
Subject: matching patterns after regex?
References: <61bef795-f146-4bdd-b5b3-a212e6d9197c@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<2387d409-110a-451d-b301-6d7fe4abc793@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <0292a4a9$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 05:12:22 -0700, Martin wrote:

> I tried
> 
> re.findall((\w+COORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.\w-]+),s)

You need to put quotes around strings.

In this case, because you're using regular expressions, you should use a 
raw string:

re.findall(r"(\w+COORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.\w-]+)",s)

will probably work.





-- 
Steven


From solipsis at pitrou.net  Wed Aug 12 08:37:15 2009
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:37:15 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	
	<7f7c3e90-6026-411f-8b4a-829798819128@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Paul Boddie  boddie.org.uk> writes:
> 
> A free-for-all isn't likely to be the best solution for more actively
> edited Python documentation, but Wiki solutions undeniably provide a
> superior "fast path" for edits by trusted users to be incorporated and
> published in accessible end-user documentation.

Agreed.

> I'm starting to believe
> that there's a certain snobbery about Wiki solutions which lead many
> people to develop all sorts of short-term, arcane solutions under the
> illusion that something super-special and customised is necessary and
> that they have to start virtually from scratch in order to cater to
> the ultra-special needs of the target audience; by the time they're
> done, no-one's interested any more, except to propose the next legacy
> system in the making.

Not sure why you think it's snobbery... There are certain tacit expectations
regarding the docs:
- that they are versioned with the source tree (because, often, changes in
documentation will be synchronized with changes in behaviour / functionality, 
because we must maintain documentation for several versions at once, because you
want to use the same kind of merging that is used between different branches)
- that they can be used offline, rebuilt in different formats, etc.
- that you don't need a Web server (even locally) to navigate through them
- that proposed changes are to be reviewed by maintainers (core developers)
before they get actually committed

I'm not sure of any existing wiki system which fits the bill. So, while I agree
that the current situation can present a high threshold for occasional doc-only
contributions, there doesn't seem to be a simple solution to improve things.




From mdekauwe at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 08:42:52 2009
From: mdekauwe at gmail.com (Martin)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 05:42:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: matching patterns after regex?
References: <61bef795-f146-4bdd-b5b3-a212e6d9197c@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<2387d409-110a-451d-b301-6d7fe4abc793@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> 
	 
	<0292a4a9$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <18d5d342-b678-4101-a284-24d6176ac856@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 12, 1:23 pm, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 05:12:22 -0700, Martin wrote:
> > I tried
>
> > re.findall((\w+COORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.\w-]+),s)
>
> You need to put quotes around strings.
>
> In this case, because you're using regular expressions, you should use a
> raw string:
>
> re.findall(r"(\w+COORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.\w-]+)",s)
>
> will probably work.
>
> --
> Steven

Thanks I see.

so I tried it and if I use it as it is, it matches the first instance:
I
n [594]: re.findall(r"(\w+COORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.\w-]+)",s)
Out[594]: [('NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE', '1')]

So I adjusted the first part of the regex, on the basis I could sub
NORTH for SOUTH etc.

In [595]: re.findall(r"(NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.
\w-]+)",s)
Out[595]: [('NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE', '1')]

But in both cases it doesn't return the decimal value rather the value
that comes after NUM_VAL = , rather than VALUE = ?




From davea at ieee.org  Wed Aug 12 08:52:50 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 08:52:50 -0400
Subject: Frustrated with scopes
In-Reply-To: <28f6f8e1-2689-4ff3-b453-e6c8859d2c43@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
References: <28f6f8e1-2689-4ff3-b453-e6c8859d2c43@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A82BB22.3080709@ieee.org>

andrew cooke wrote:
> Is there a way to make this work (currently scope and join are
> undefined at runtime when the inner class attributes are defined):
>
> class _StreamFactory(object):
>
>     @staticmethod
>     def __call__(lines, source, join=''.join):
>
>         class Line(object):
>
>             __source = source
>             __join = join
> [...]
>
> I can get something working by bouncing through global values, but it
> looks awful and I think it's a source of a bug due too values being
> redefined.
>
> Thanks,
> Andrew
>
>   
Supply us with just enough source code to actually try it, give the full 
error message including traceback, and tell us what you expected to 
see.  Also tell us Python version   (sys.version)

So far you've done none of these.  When I try the following, I get no 
errors, using Python 2.6.2


class _StreamFactory(object):

    @staticmethod
    def __call__(lines, source, join=''.join):

        class Line(object):

            __source = source
            __join = join
        return Line()


fact = _StreamFactory()
obj = fact(43, "name.txt")
print obj




From davea at ieee.org  Wed Aug 12 08:52:50 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 08:52:50 -0400
Subject: Frustrated with scopes
In-Reply-To: <28f6f8e1-2689-4ff3-b453-e6c8859d2c43@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
References: <28f6f8e1-2689-4ff3-b453-e6c8859d2c43@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A82BB22.3080709@ieee.org>

andrew cooke wrote:
> Is there a way to make this work (currently scope and join are
> undefined at runtime when the inner class attributes are defined):
>
> class _StreamFactory(object):
>
>     @staticmethod
>     def __call__(lines, source, join=''.join):
>
>         class Line(object):
>
>             __source = source
>             __join = join
> [...]
>
> I can get something working by bouncing through global values, but it
> looks awful and I think it's a source of a bug due too values being
> redefined.
>
> Thanks,
> Andrew
>
>   
Supply us with just enough source code to actually try it, give the full 
error message including traceback, and tell us what you expected to 
see.  Also tell us Python version   (sys.version)

So far you've done none of these.  When I try the following, I get no 
errors, using Python 2.6.2


class _StreamFactory(object):

    @staticmethod
    def __call__(lines, source, join=''.join):

        class Line(object):

            __source = source
            __join = join
        return Line()


fact = _StreamFactory()
obj = fact(43, "name.txt")
print obj




From paul at boddie.org.uk  Wed Aug 12 09:24:18 2009
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 06:24:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	
	<7f7c3e90-6026-411f-8b4a-829798819128@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
	<0292a134$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <3a15345c-9d01-48ab-8f15-dd6053ea70a0@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On 12 Aug, 14:08, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
>
> With tens of millions of web users, it's no surprise that Wikipedia can
> attract thousands of editors. But this does not apply to Python, which
> starts from a comparatively tiny population, primarily those interested
> in Python. Have a look at the Wikipedia page for Python.

What does the Python entry on Wikipedia have to do with editing the
Python documentation in a Wiki? Once everyone has agreed that the
description of Python on Wikipedia is reasonable, there's not much
point in editing it, is there? In contrast, there's a continuous
stream of people who don't think Python's documentation is that great.

[...]

> > A free-for-all isn't likely to be the best solution for more actively
> > edited Python documentation, but Wiki solutions undeniably provide a
> > superior "fast path" for edits by trusted users to be incorporated and
> > published in accessible end-user documentation.
>
> And the Python time-machine strikes again:
>
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/

And I suggested that the complainants use it as a starting point.

[...]

> Oh dear me. You mean that they don't agree that YOUR time is more
> important than theirs??? What horrible people they must be, to expect you
> to sacrifice some of your sleep time just so *they* can get some sleep
> themselves!!! Who do they think they are???

That's quite an attempt to make my position more extreme than it
actually is. I get people asking me to improve my own software, you
know, and even if I don't have the time or inclination to do what they
ask, I do spend time discussing it with them. Such people, including
myself when I'm on the other side of the fence, appreciate more than
just a brush-off and no: they don't insist that their own time be
valued above anyone else's (as you would have me misrepresented); they
just ask that their own efforts aren't treated as having no value
because they're not part of the "elite" development team. You get
various projects doing soul-searching about embracing the efforts of
non-programmers, and the first port of call on that particular voyage
is to not treat them like idiot consumers whose remarks can only be
considered as mere heckling while the visionaries act out their
flawless production.

Paul

P.S. The mention of "social problems" ties in with other remarks made
recently, and I've increasingly found it more trouble than has been
worthwhile to pursue Python-related matters of late. When one tries to
encourage people to participate in improving various things, which
usually means the community having to accept a degree of criticism,
people claim that it's encouraging "undesirable" influences to point
such critics in the right direction instead of showing them the door.
When one tries to pursue such improvement matters oneself, people
always have something to say about the choice of technology or whether
they like the particular background colour being used or indeed have
an opinion, typically shallow and negative, about anything but the
task at hand, and there'll always be someone queuing up to dismantle
anything that does get done at the first opportunity. In contrast,
I've found other groups of people to be grateful for even modest
technical assistance, and I know that such people are much more likely
to get my support and input in the future than those who think that
it's some kind of advantage to have potential contributors run the
gauntlet of denial (that there are structural problems in their
project), skepticism (that newcomers can have anything to contribute),
discouragement (because any solution which doesn't validate someone's
technology preferences must be criticised) and, indeed, outright
hostility.

One can always spend one's time doing something which isn't 100%
enjoyable or 100% rewarding if one feels that the time is still being
spent on something worthwhile. I'm getting the feeling that lots of
Python-related stuff doesn't quite satisfy such criteria any more.


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Wed Aug 12 09:27:49 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 15:27:49 +0200
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
In-Reply-To: <8c7f10c60908120121v4bbf9040h9da68a650ef48566@mail.gmail.com>
References: 	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<8c7f10c60908120121v4bbf9040h9da68a650ef48566@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A82C355.8080304@sequans.com>

Simon Brunning wrote:
> 2009/8/11 Robert Dailey :
>   
>> On Aug 11, 3:40 pm, Bearophile  wrote:
>>     
>>> There are gals too here.
>>>       
>> It's a figure of speech. And besides, why would I want programming
>> advice from a woman? lol. Thanks for the help.
>>     
>
> Give the attitudes still prevalent in our industry (cf
>  and many more), I'm sorry to say that I
> don't think this is funny.
>
>   
Having someone present technical informations with porn content cannot 
be qualified as "prevalent in our industry". I would even dare to say 
this is the opposite, it is almost unique.
I would also add that Robert was very far from this attitude, I consider 
his joke as a friendly tickle, not a male chauvinist aggression. I'm no 
women, but I'm sure they are as capable as me, not to say more, of 
making the distinction.

It has been said this list is not very friendly to newbies, let's not 
make it hostile to gentle jokes (even those not funny) when thanking 
helpers.

JM




From andrew at acooke.org  Wed Aug 12 09:47:38 2009
From: andrew at acooke.org (andrew cooke)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 06:47:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Frustrated with scopes
References: <28f6f8e1-2689-4ff3-b453-e6c8859d2c43@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <3bf15201-afc3-4fb4-9a99-ee2966c4da61@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 12, 8:52?am, Dave Angel  wrote:
> Supply us with just enough source code to actually try it, give the full
> error message including traceback, and tell us what you expected to
> see. ?Also tell us Python version ? (sys.version)
>
> So far you've done none of these. ?When I try the following, I get no
> errors, using Python 2.6.2
>
> class _StreamFactory(object):
>
> ? ? @staticmethod
> ? ? def __call__(lines, source, join=''.join):
>
> ? ? ? ? class Line(object):
>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? __source = source
> ? ? ? ? ? ? __join = join
> ? ? ? ? return Line()
>
> fact = _StreamFactory()
> obj = fact(43, "name.txt")
> print obj

Ah!  OK, thanks for that.  I need to look at this again.  I'll post
again if necessary, but if it works for you then I clearly don't
understand what the issue is myself.

Andrew


From ebonak at hotmail.com  Wed Aug 12 09:58:09 2009
From: ebonak at hotmail.com (Esmail)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 09:58:09 -0400
Subject: best practice for documenting a project? pydoc?
Message-ID: 

Hello,

A project that I have been working on is getting larger
and more complex, and I would like to unload some of the
information from my memory/head to some other media (a
set of web pages?). I am primarily interested in documenting
the classes/methods.

This documentation is primarily for my use only - as I can't
continuously work on this project and have to come back to it
after some time, it would be nice to have some documentation
available to help jog my memory.

What is the best way to do this in an automated way? I have
been documenting my code as I've gone along.

Is pydoc still the way to go, or should I use something else?

Thanks,
Esmail



From exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  Wed Aug 12 10:09:56 2009
From: exarkun at twistedmatrix.com (exarkun at twistedmatrix.com)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:09:56 -0000
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
In-Reply-To: <4A82C355.8080304@sequans.com>
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<8c7f10c60908120121v4bbf9040h9da68a650ef48566@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A82C355.8080304@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <20090812140956.10431.1919444081.divmod.xquotient.60@localhost.localdomain>

On 01:27 pm, jeanmichel at sequans.com wrote:
>Simon Brunning wrote:
>>2009/8/11 Robert Dailey :
>>>On Aug 11, 3:40 pm, Bearophile  wrote:
>>>>There are gals too here.
>>>It's a figure of speech. And besides, why would I want programming
>>>advice from a woman? lol. Thanks for the help.
>>
>>Give the attitudes still prevalent in our industry (cf
>> and many more), I'm sorry to say that I
>>don't think this is funny.
>Having someone present technical informations with porn content cannot 
>be qualified as "prevalent in our industry". I would even dare to say 
>this is the opposite, it is almost unique.
>I would also add that Robert was very far from this attitude, I 
>consider his joke as a friendly tickle, not a male chauvinist 
>aggression. I'm no women, but I'm sure they are as capable as me, not 
>to say more, of making the distinction.
>
>It has been said this list is not very friendly to newbies, let's not 
>make it hostile to gentle jokes (even those not funny) when thanking 
>helpers.

It's lots of little things like this which combine to create an 
environment which is less friendly towards women than it is towards 
others.  You might read it as a joke, others might not.  Even if it is a 
joke, it's in poor taste and doesn't really belong on python-list.

There's a difference between pointing out inappropriate behavior and 
being unfriendly.  Hopefully Robert got help with his problem.  That's 
what the list is here for.  Having accomplished that, it is not 
unfriendly to ask him not to make disparaging comments, "jokes" or 
otherwise, about groups of people.

Jean-Paul


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Aug 12 10:10:47 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 15:10:47 +0100
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
In-Reply-To: <3a15345c-9d01-48ab-8f15-dd6053ea70a0@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: 	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>		<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>		<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>		<7f7c3e90-6026-411f-8b4a-829798819128@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>	<0292a134$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<3a15345c-9d01-48ab-8f15-dd6053ea70a0@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Paul Boddie wrote:
[snip]
> One can always spend one's time doing something which isn't 100%
> enjoyable or 100% rewarding if one feels that the time is still being
> spent on something worthwhile. I'm getting the feeling that lots of
> Python-related stuff doesn't quite satisfy such criteria any more.

I've been strongly considering volunteering to do Python work but this 
thread has put me off completely.  I've time to spare as I only work 
part time due to long term health problems. However I don't feel that 
the time would be well spent on Python work, as I get the impression 
that a lot of it would go on cleaning some people's snotty noses, and on 
wiping other people's bottoms.

I'll just wait until my normal voluntary work starts again next month 
after the summer break.  Working with an extremely pleasant bunch of 
people hacking foreigners to death, that's more like it.  See the 
following links should anyone be interested.

http://www.dorsetforyou.com/index.jsp?articleid=386553
http://www.dorsetforyou.com/index.jsp?articleid=386598

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From maxerickson at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 10:14:46 2009
From: maxerickson at gmail.com (Max Erickson)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:14:46 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: httplib incredibly slow :-(
References: <4A81FDF5.6010508@simplistix.co.uk>
	<4A8274A9.7000905@simplistix.co.uk>
Message-ID: 

Chris Withers  wrote:
> 
> I'm still reeling from what seems to be such a huge problem with
> httplib that seem to be largely ignored :-(
> 
> Chris
> 

There is an httplib2 (but I don't know anything further about it...):

http://code.google.com/p/httplib2/

Calling wget or curl using a subprocess is probably as easy as it is 
ugly, I use the wget build from here:

http://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/packages/wget.htm


max



From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Wed Aug 12 10:29:37 2009
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 07:29:37 -0700
Subject: better way?
In-Reply-To: <6733c8fe-9ef8-4010-9b23-27538e19d8ff@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <9899e909-509e-47d4-a8e5-f9d70e0b8827@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<78a18b9b-f29e-432f-9fe4-8c250cb08edb@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<87skfyjen8.fsf@golux.woodcraft.me.uk>
	
	<6733c8fe-9ef8-4010-9b23-27538e19d8ff@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3tSdnTBlOchPUh_XnZ2dnUVZ_oGdnZ2d@pdx.net>

Pet wrote:
> On 11 Aug., 22:19, "Rami Chowdhury"  wrote:
>> Ah, my apologies, I must have been getting it confused with ON UPDATE  
>> [things]. Thanks for correcting me.
>>
>> On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:10:03 -0700, Matthew Woodcraft  
>>
>>  wrote:
>>> "Rami Chowdhury"  writes:
>>>> IIRC Postgres has had ON DUPLICATE KEY UPDATE functionality longer than
>>>> MySQL...
>>> PostgreSQL does not have ON DUPLICATE KEY UPDATE.
>>> The SQL standard way to do what the OP wants is MERGE. PostgreSQL
>>> doesn't have that either.
> 
> So, I'm doing it in right way?
> What about building columns? map(lambda s: s + ' = %s', fields)
> Is that o.k.?
Isn't
     t = [field + ' = %s' for field in fields]
clearer than
     t = map(lambda s: s + ' = %s', fields)
? your call of course.

I don't quite understand why you are building the SQL from data
but constructing the arguments in source.  I'd actually set the
SQL up directly as a string, making both the SQL and Python more
readable. To the original question, you could unconditionally
perform a queries vaguely like:

UPDATE_SQL = '''UPDATE table ...
      WHERE id = %s AND location = %s;'''
INSERT_SQL = '''INSERT INTO table(...
      WHERE NOT EXISTS(SELECT * FROM table
                       WHERE id = %s AND location = %s;);'''
I'd put the NOW() and constant args (like the 1) in the SQL itself.
then your code might become:
     row = (self.wl, name, location, id)
     self._execQuery(db, UPDATE_SQL, [row])
     self._execQuery(db, INSERT_SQL, [row + (location, id)])
if _execQuery is like the standard Python DB interfaces.  Having
the SQL do the checking means you allows the DB to check its
index and use that result to control the operation, simplifying
the Python code without significantly affecting the the DB work
needed.  The "SELECT *" form in the EXIST test is something DB
optimizers look for, so don't fret about wasted data movement.



--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From rcdailey at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 10:41:52 2009
From: rcdailey at gmail.com (Robert Dailey)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 07:41:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> 
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<8c7f10c60908120121v4bbf9040h9da68a650ef48566@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4A82C355.8080304@sequans.com>
	
Message-ID: <77a10bad-e0fe-4d50-95b2-f2f92a665001@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 12, 9:09?am, exar... at twistedmatrix.com wrote:
> On 01:27 pm, jeanmic... at sequans.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >Simon Brunning wrote:
> >>2009/8/11 Robert Dailey :
> >>>On Aug 11, 3:40 pm, Bearophile  wrote:
> >>>>There are gals too here.
> >>>It's a figure of speech. And besides, why would I want programming
> >>>advice from a woman? lol. Thanks for the help.
>
> >>Give the attitudes still prevalent in our industry (cf
> >> and many more), I'm sorry to say that I
> >>don't think this is funny.
> >Having someone present technical informations with porn content cannot
> >be qualified as "prevalent in our industry". I would even dare to say
> >this is the opposite, it is almost unique.
> >I would also add that Robert was very far from this attitude, I
> >consider his joke as a friendly tickle, not a male chauvinist
> >aggression. I'm no women, but I'm sure they are as capable as me, not
> >to say more, of making the distinction.
>
> >It has been said this list is not very friendly to newbies, let's not
> >make it hostile to gentle jokes (even those not funny) when thanking
> >helpers.
>
> It's lots of little things like this which combine to create an
> environment which is less friendly towards women than it is towards
> others. ?You might read it as a joke, others might not. ?Even if it is a
> joke, it's in poor taste and doesn't really belong on python-list.
>
> There's a difference between pointing out inappropriate behavior and
> being unfriendly. ?Hopefully Robert got help with his problem. ?That's
> what the list is here for. ?Having accomplished that, it is not
> unfriendly to ask him not to make disparaging comments, "jokes" or
> otherwise, about groups of people.
>
> Jean-Paul

Hey everyone,

I was actually joking about my remark, I was making fun of the fact
that Bearophile took my figure of speech literally. I have worked with
a lot of women in the past and they even use "guys" to refer to
everyone in a room (When there were obviously other females in that
room as well).

On a more serious note, I do apologize to those offended by my remark.
I realize that these things can be a touchy subject for some people. I
expected more of a laid-back attitude from everyone. No need to be so
serious all the time. I cannot completely doubt that there are logical
women out there. I just haven't seen one yet. But that doesn't mean
I'm a sexist.

With my apology presented, I would like to propose that we end the
discussion here. As I said, this is a very sensitive subject and this
thread could spin way out of control if we don't just ignore the
issue. For those that took it as a friendly, harmless joke, hopefully
you had a laugh. For those that took it seriously or as an offense,
please take my apology to heart. Thanks once again to everyone for
your help. I've long been a member of this community and I really
appreciate the continuous support I've been receiving!

Take care everyone!


From rcdailey at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 10:47:58 2009
From: rcdailey at gmail.com (Robert Dailey)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 07:47:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> 
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<8c7f10c60908120121v4bbf9040h9da68a650ef48566@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4A82C355.8080304@sequans.com>
	 
	<77a10bad-e0fe-4d50-95b2-f2f92a665001@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1b527b08-8b49-4bff-a192-215565feacf3@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 12, 9:41?am, Robert Dailey  wrote:
> On Aug 12, 9:09?am, exar... at twistedmatrix.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 01:27 pm, jeanmic... at sequans.com wrote:
>
> > >Simon Brunning wrote:
> > >>2009/8/11 Robert Dailey :
> > >>>On Aug 11, 3:40 pm, Bearophile  wrote:
> > >>>>There are gals too here.
> > >>>It's a figure of speech. And besides, why would I want programming
> > >>>advice from a woman? lol. Thanks for the help.
>
> > >>Give the attitudes still prevalent in our industry (cf
> > >> and many more), I'm sorry to say that I
> > >>don't think this is funny.
> > >Having someone present technical informations with porn content cannot
> > >be qualified as "prevalent in our industry". I would even dare to say
> > >this is the opposite, it is almost unique.
> > >I would also add that Robert was very far from this attitude, I
> > >consider his joke as a friendly tickle, not a male chauvinist
> > >aggression. I'm no women, but I'm sure they are as capable as me, not
> > >to say more, of making the distinction.
>
> > >It has been said this list is not very friendly to newbies, let's not
> > >make it hostile to gentle jokes (even those not funny) when thanking
> > >helpers.
>
> > It's lots of little things like this which combine to create an
> > environment which is less friendly towards women than it is towards
> > others. ?You might read it as a joke, others might not. ?Even if it is a
> > joke, it's in poor taste and doesn't really belong on python-list.
>
> > There's a difference between pointing out inappropriate behavior and
> > being unfriendly. ?Hopefully Robert got help with his problem. ?That's
> > what the list is here for. ?Having accomplished that, it is not
> > unfriendly to ask him not to make disparaging comments, "jokes" or
> > otherwise, about groups of people.
>
> > Jean-Paul
>
> Hey everyone,
>
> I was actually joking about my remark, I was making fun of the fact
> that Bearophile took my figure of speech literally. I have worked with
> a lot of women in the past and they even use "guys" to refer to
> everyone in a room (When there were obviously other females in that
> room as well).
>
> On a more serious note, I do apologize to those offended by my remark.
> I realize that these things can be a touchy subject for some people. I
> expected more of a laid-back attitude from everyone. No need to be so
> serious all the time. I cannot completely doubt that there are logical
> women out there. I just haven't seen one yet. But that doesn't mean
> I'm a sexist.
>
> With my apology presented, I would like to propose that we end the
> discussion here. As I said, this is a very sensitive subject and this
> thread could spin way out of control if we don't just ignore the
> issue. For those that took it as a friendly, harmless joke, hopefully
> you had a laugh. For those that took it seriously or as an offense,
> please take my apology to heart. Thanks once again to everyone for
> your help. I've long been a member of this community and I really
> appreciate the continuous support I've been receiving!
>
> Take care everyone!

Oh, one last thing... So everyone knows, I chose the following
formatting solution to multiline strings:

def MyFunction():
   multilineString = (
      'This is a string that spans '
      'multiple lines.'
      )
   print( multilineString )

I think this is as good as it is going to get for my personal needs.
However, I do not like having to put a space at the end of each
string. I've also done this in the past, which is slightly more ugly:

  multilineString = (
     'This is a string that spans',
     'multiple lines.'
     )
  print( ' '.join( multilineString ) )

This will add the spaces between lines for you. However, in a
production quality application I would always have strings external to
the scripts and have an advanced localization system. However this is
useful for quick little scripts that I want to keep tidy.


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Aug 12 10:49:51 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 15:49:51 +0100
Subject: best practice for documenting a project? pydoc?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Esmail wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> A project that I have been working on is getting larger
> and more complex, and I would like to unload some of the
> information from my memory/head to some other media (a
> set of web pages?). I am primarily interested in documenting
> the classes/methods.
> 
> This documentation is primarily for my use only - as I can't
> continuously work on this project and have to come back to it
> after some time, it would be nice to have some documentation
> available to help jog my memory.
> 
> What is the best way to do this in an automated way? I have
> been documenting my code as I've gone along.
> 
> Is pydoc still the way to go, or should I use something else?
> 
> Thanks,
> Esmail
> 
The docs for the constraint package look good, see
http://labix.org/python-constraint and http://labix.org/doc/constraint.
I think they've been produced with epydoc see http://epydoc.sourceforge.net/

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Wed Aug 12 11:08:32 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 12 Aug 2009 15:08:32 GMT
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	
	<7f7c3e90-6026-411f-8b4a-829798819128@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
	<0292a134$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<3a15345c-9d01-48ab-8f15-dd6053ea70a0@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0292cb5a$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 06:24:18 -0700, Paul Boddie wrote:

> On 12 Aug, 14:08, Steven D'Aprano  cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>>
>> With tens of millions of web users, it's no surprise that Wikipedia can
>> attract thousands of editors. But this does not apply to Python, which
>> starts from a comparatively tiny population, primarily those interested
>> in Python. Have a look at the Wikipedia page for Python.
> 
> What does the Python entry on Wikipedia have to do with editing the
> Python documentation in a Wiki? 

Good question. I was responding to you mentioning Wikipedia as a possible 
role model for the Python docs.


> Once everyone has agreed that the
> description of Python on Wikipedia is reasonable, there's not much point
> in editing it, is there? 

And once we're all fabulously wealthy, there won't be any point in anyone 
working any more either!

The problem for your argument is, even if it were correct, not everyone 
agrees the Python article is "reasonable" -- there were three edits made 
since the 7th of this month. And before that, there was a stream of 22 
edits on the 5th, and another 25 edits since the  8th of July. Obviously 
the Python article is still in active development.

Some of those edits were, apparently, vandalism, which gives yet another 
reason why the Wikipedia model is not necessarily the right model to 
follow.


> In contrast, there's a continuous stream of
> people who don't think Python's documentation is that great.

And a great flood of those who think it's pretty good and gets the job 
done adequately, and a trickle of those who think it's perfect just the 
way it is.

It's not the people who suggest improvements to the docs that are the 
problem, but the ones who insist that the docs are terrible, but aren't 
willing to do anything but complain. Oh, and trolls like ... I hesitate 
to mention his name in case he has a bot monitoring the list ... first 
name starts with "X" followed by "ah", second name sounds like "Mee" ... 
who even if they make a few good points, they're lost in a sea of insults 
to others, arrogance and self-aggrandisement.


>> And the Python time-machine strikes again:
>>
>> http://wiki.python.org/moin/
> 
> And I suggested that the complainants use it as a starting point.

Sorry, I seem to have missed that.


> [...]
> 
>> Oh dear me. You mean that they don't agree that YOUR time is more
>> important than theirs??? What horrible people they must be, to expect
>> you to sacrifice some of your sleep time just so *they* can get some
>> sleep themselves!!! Who do they think they are???
> 
> That's quite an attempt to make my position more extreme than it
> actually is. 

Well, you did raise the issue of the sacrifices you were making to report 
these bugs. All I did was exaggerate the attitude a tad.


> I get people asking me to improve my own software, you
> know, and even if I don't have the time or inclination to do what they
> ask, I do spend time discussing it with them. Such people, including
> myself when I'm on the other side of the fence, appreciate more than
> just a brush-off and no: they don't insist that their own time be valued
> above anyone else's 

Then you're incredibly lucky to attract a better class of end-users. In 
my experience, most end-users won't even spend the effort to describe the 
problem they're having beyond "it doesn't work". And they usually 
misspell that.



> (as you would have me misrepresented); they just ask
> that their own efforts aren't treated as having no value because they're
> not part of the "elite" development team. You get various projects doing
> soul-searching about embracing the efforts of non-programmers, and the
> first port of call on that particular voyage is to not treat them like
> idiot consumers whose remarks can only be considered as mere heckling
> while the visionaries act out their flawless production.

A noble vision, but wait until the idiot heckling consumers discover your 
software, then we'll see how much time you're prepared to give them.



> 
> Paul
> 
> P.S. The mention of "social problems" ties in with other remarks made
> recently, and I've increasingly found it more trouble than has been
> worthwhile to pursue Python-related matters of late. When one tries to
> encourage people to participate in improving various things, which
> usually means the community having to accept a degree of criticism,
> people claim that it's encouraging "undesirable" influences to point
> such critics in the right direction instead of showing them the door.

Can you point me to a discussion where this has happened?


> When one tries to pursue such improvement matters oneself, people always
> have something to say about the choice of technology or whether they
> like the particular background colour being used 

You've discovered bike-shedding.

> or indeed have an
> opinion, typically shallow and negative, about anything but the task at
> hand, 

When you're agitating for change, anyone defending the status quo has 
opinions which are shallow and negative. When you're happy with the 
status quo, possibly even for good, rational reasons and not just because 
you're a shallow-minded, ignorant, know-nothing nay-sayer, it's those 
agitating for change who have shallow and negative opinions. It's such a 
bother trying to determine who is right, so I prefer to just accuse the 
other guy of being shallow and negative rather than try to understand his 
point of view. I find it saves time in the long run.


> and there'll always be someone queuing up to dismantle anything
> that does get done at the first opportunity. In contrast, I've found
> other groups of people to be grateful for even modest technical
> assistance, and I know that such people are much more likely to get my
> support and input in the future than those who think that it's some kind
> of advantage to have potential contributors run the gauntlet of denial
> (that there are structural problems in their project), skepticism (that
> newcomers can have anything to contribute), discouragement (because any
> solution which doesn't validate someone's technology preferences must be
> criticised) and, indeed, outright hostility.

I'm having trouble parsing the semantics of that sentence, so please 
excuse me for any misunderstandings.

There seems to be a hidden assumption in your sentence that there *are* 
structural problems in the project. Now obviously no project is 
"perfect", and we all know of cases where a group of people immersed in a 
project will become so close to it that they can't see the rotten trees 
for the wood, so to speak. But generally, the people in the project have 
a very good understanding of the project's strengths and weaknesses, 
because they've been living with it for a long, long time, and it's new-
comers, who don't know the tools, don't know the libraries, aren't 
familiar with the conventions, and don't know the reasons for the 
decisions made, who can't see the trees for the wood.

It's not experienced Python developers who write really slow Java code in 
Python, it's Java developers. And I'm sure the opposite occurs too: 
Python developers learning Java for the first time will struggle to write 
idiomatic Java code, and will criticise *the wrong things* because 
they're thinking like Python developers.

You're expecting outsiders to bring in fresh insights that the jaded, 
stuck-in-a-rut locals can't see. Well, it happens. But for every time it 
happens, there's a hundred outsiders who come along and say the 
equivalent of "What, no GOTO? Well this sucks."




-- 
Steven


From petshmidt at googlemail.com  Wed Aug 12 11:09:02 2009
From: petshmidt at googlemail.com (Pet)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 08:09:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: better way?
References: <9899e909-509e-47d4-a8e5-f9d70e0b8827@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<78a18b9b-f29e-432f-9fe4-8c250cb08edb@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<87skfyjen8.fsf@golux.woodcraft.me.uk> 
	
	<6733c8fe-9ef8-4010-9b23-27538e19d8ff@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<3tSdnTBlOchPUh_XnZ2dnUVZ_oGdnZ2d@pdx.net>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 12, 4:29?pm, Scott David Daniels  wrote:
> Pet wrote:
> > On 11 Aug., 22:19, "Rami Chowdhury"  wrote:
> >> Ah, my apologies, I must have been getting it confused with ON UPDATE ?
> >> [things]. Thanks for correcting me.
>
> >> On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:10:03 -0700, Matthew Woodcraft ?
>
> >>  wrote:
> >>> "Rami Chowdhury"  writes:
> >>>> IIRC Postgres has had ON DUPLICATE KEY UPDATE functionality longer than
> >>>> MySQL...
> >>> PostgreSQL does not have ON DUPLICATE KEY UPDATE.
> >>> The SQL standard way to do what the OP wants is MERGE. PostgreSQL
> >>> doesn't have that either.
>
> > So, I'm doing it in right way?
> > What about building columns? map(lambda s: s + ' = %s', fields)
> > Is that o.k.?
>
> Isn't
> ? ? ?t = [field + ' = %s' for field in fields]
> clearer than
> ? ? ?t = map(lambda s: s + ' = %s', fields)
> ? your call of course.

Yes, I think so

> I don't quite understand why you are building the SQL from data
> but constructing the arguments in source. ?I'd actually set the
> SQL up directly as a string, making both the SQL and Python more

Sometimes, column list could be long, besides I keep column list in
sync for both update and insert query

> readable. To the original question, you could unconditionally
> perform a queries vaguely like:
>
> UPDATE_SQL = '''UPDATE table ...
> ? ? ? WHERE id = %s AND location = %s;'''
> INSERT_SQL = '''INSERT INTO table(...
> ? ? ? WHERE NOT EXISTS(SELECT * FROM table
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?WHERE id = %s AND location = %s;);'''
> I'd put the NOW() and constant args (like the 1) in the SQL itself.

yes, but I'm building both UPDATE in INSERT from same list of columns,
so I didn't found better way as this one


> then your code might become:
> ? ? ?row = (self.wl, name, location, id)
> ? ? ?self._execQuery(db, UPDATE_SQL, [row])
> ? ? ?self._execQuery(db, INSERT_SQL, [row + (location, id)])

I'm going to rebuild my queries like that.

Thank you very much!


> if _execQuery is like the standard Python DB interfaces. ?Having
> the SQL do the checking means you allows the DB to check its
> index and use that result to control the operation, simplifying
> the Python code without significantly affecting the the DB work
> needed. ?The "SELECT *" form in the EXIST test is something DB
> optimizers look for, so don't fret about wasted data movement.
>
> --Scott David Daniels
> Scott.Dani... at Acm.Org



From sajmikins at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 11:11:43 2009
From: sajmikins at gmail.com (Simon Forman)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 08:11:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> 
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<8c7f10c60908120121v4bbf9040h9da68a650ef48566@mail.gmail.com> 
	<4A82C355.8080304@sequans.com>
	 
	<77a10bad-e0fe-4d50-95b2-f2f92a665001@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 12, 10:41?am, Robert Dailey  wrote:
> On Aug 12, 9:09?am, exar... at twistedmatrix.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 01:27 pm, jeanmic... at sequans.com wrote:
>
> > >Simon Brunning wrote:
> > >>2009/8/11 Robert Dailey :
> > >>>On Aug 11, 3:40 pm, Bearophile  wrote:
> > >>>>There are gals too here.
> > >>>It's a figure of speech. And besides, why would I want programming
> > >>>advice from a woman? lol. Thanks for the help.
>
> > >>Give the attitudes still prevalent in our industry (cf
> > >> and many more), I'm sorry to say that I
> > >>don't think this is funny.
> > >Having someone present technical informations with porn content cannot
> > >be qualified as "prevalent in our industry". I would even dare to say
> > >this is the opposite, it is almost unique.
> > >I would also add that Robert was very far from this attitude, I
> > >consider his joke as a friendly tickle, not a male chauvinist
> > >aggression. I'm no women, but I'm sure they are as capable as me, not
> > >to say more, of making the distinction.
>
> > >It has been said this list is not very friendly to newbies, let's not
> > >make it hostile to gentle jokes (even those not funny) when thanking
> > >helpers.
>
> > It's lots of little things like this which combine to create an
> > environment which is less friendly towards women than it is towards
> > others. ?You might read it as a joke, others might not. ?Even if it is a
> > joke, it's in poor taste and doesn't really belong on python-list.
>
> > There's a difference between pointing out inappropriate behavior and
> > being unfriendly. ?Hopefully Robert got help with his problem. ?That's
> > what the list is here for. ?Having accomplished that, it is not
> > unfriendly to ask him not to make disparaging comments, "jokes" or
> > otherwise, about groups of people.
>
> > Jean-Paul
>
> Hey everyone,
>
> I was actually joking about my remark, I was making fun of the fact
> that Bearophile took my figure of speech literally. I have worked with
> a lot of women in the past and they even use "guys" to refer to
> everyone in a room (When there were obviously other females in that
> room as well).
>
> On a more serious note, I do apologize to those offended by my remark.
> I realize that these things can be a touchy subject for some people. I
> expected more of a laid-back attitude from everyone. No need to be so
> serious all the time. I cannot completely doubt that there are logical
> women out there. I just haven't seen one yet. But that doesn't mean
> I'm a sexist.

Oh my.  And you were doing so well.  You haven't seen a logical
woman?  Perhaps you're blind because your eyes were torn out by a
raging marmoset?

Guess what?  Thinking (or just saying) that /does/ mean you're a
sexist.  (Even if it was just another "friendly, harmless joke".)




> With my apology presented, I would like to propose that we end the
> discussion here. As I said, this is a very sensitive subject and this
> thread could spin way out of control if we don't just ignore the
> issue. For those that took it as a friendly, harmless joke, hopefully
> you had a laugh. For those that took it seriously or as an offense,
> please take my apology to heart. Thanks once again to everyone for
> your help. I've long been a member of this community and I really
> appreciate the continuous support I've been receiving!
>
> Take care everyone!



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Wed Aug 12 11:26:12 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 12 Aug 2009 15:26:12 GMT
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<8c7f10c60908120121v4bbf9040h9da68a650ef48566@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A82C355.8080304@sequans.com>
	
	<77a10bad-e0fe-4d50-95b2-f2f92a665001@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<1b527b08-8b49-4bff-a192-215565feacf3@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0292cf7e$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 07:47:58 -0700, Robert Dailey wrote:

> On Aug 12, 9:41?am, Robert Dailey  wrote:
... 
> > I was actually joking about my remark, I was making fun of the fact
> > that Bearophile took my figure of speech literally. 

Keep in mind that the Internet is a global forum, and not everyone here 
speaks English as a first language. I believe Bearophile is one of those. 
Although his, or possibly her, English is excellent, it wouldn't surprise 
me that (s)he would misinterpret "guys" as just referring to men. I'm a 
native English speaker, and I would have done the same.


> > I have worked with
> > a lot of women in the past and they even use "guys" to refer to
> > everyone in a room (When there were obviously other females in that
> > room as well).

Yes, I've seen this myself, but it's still uncommon enough to surprise me 
every time I see it.


> > On a more serious note, I do apologize to those offended by my remark.
> > I realize that these things can be a touchy subject for some people. I
> > expected more of a laid-back attitude from everyone. No need to be so
> > serious all the time. I cannot completely doubt that there are logical
> > women out there. I just haven't seen one yet. 

That's okay, I haven't seen terribly many logical men out there either.


> Oh, one last thing... So everyone knows, I chose the following
> formatting solution to multiline strings:
> 
> def MyFunction():
>    multilineString = (
>       'This is a string that spans '
>       'multiple lines.'
>       )
>    print( multilineString )
> 
> I think this is as good as it is going to get for my personal needs.
> However, I do not like having to put a space at the end of each
> string. 

So put them at the beginning of the next line. It makes the space more 
obvious, so it's clearer what you have done. That's what I sometimes do.


> I've also done this in the past, which is slightly more ugly:
> 
>   multilineString = (
>      'This is a string that spans',
>      'multiple lines.'
>      )
>   print( ' '.join( multilineString ) )


It's also less efficient, as it does the concatenation at runtime instead 
of compile time. But for a small script, that's not likely to be a 
problem worth worrying about.
 


-- 
Steven


From shaileshk at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 11:33:55 2009
From: shaileshk at gmail.com (shaileshkumar)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 08:33:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: best practice for documenting a project? pydoc?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

Hello,

EPYDOC is very good for automatic generation of documentation from
source code.

You may also consider Sphinx http://sphinx.pocoo.org/ which is used
for many
projects including the official Python documentation, documentation of
Zope (http://docs.zope.org/).
See the full list of projects using Sphinx at http://sphinx.pocoo.org/examples.html

- Shailesh


On Aug 12, 7:49?pm, Mark Lawrence  wrote:
> Esmail wrote:
> > Hello,
>
> > A project that I have been working on is getting larger
> > and more complex, and I would like to unload some of the
> > information from my memory/head to some other media (a
> > set of web pages?). I am primarily interested in documenting
> > the classes/methods.
>
> > This documentation is primarily for my use only - as I can't
> > continuously work on this project and have to come back to it
> > after some time, it would be nice to have some documentation
> > available to help jog my memory.
>
> > What is the best way to do this in an automated way? I have
> > been documenting my code as I've gone along.
>
> > Is pydoc still the way to go, or should I use something else?
>
> > Thanks,
> > Esmail
>
> The docs for the constraint package look good, seehttp://labix.org/python-constraintandhttp://labix.org/doc/constraint.
> I think they've been produced with epydoc seehttp://epydoc.sourceforge.net/
>
> --
> Kindest regards.
>
> Mark Lawrence.



From shaileshk at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 11:50:14 2009
From: shaileshk at gmail.com (shaileshkumar)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 08:50:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: httplib incredibly slow :-(
References: <4A81FDF5.6010508@simplistix.co.uk>
	<4A8274A9.7000905@simplistix.co.uk> 
	
Message-ID: 

We use PyCURL on Windows. http://pycurl.sourceforge.net/ provides pre-
built versions for Windows and it works out of the box.

- Shailesh



On Aug 12, 7:14?pm, Max Erickson  wrote:
> Chris Withers  wrote:
>
> > I'm still reeling from what seems to be such a huge problem with
> > httplib that seem to be largely ignored :-(
>
> > Chris
>
> There is an httplib2 (but I don't know anything further about it...):
>
> http://code.google.com/p/httplib2/
>
> Calling wget or curl using a subprocess is probably as easy as it is
> ugly, I use the wget build from here:
>
> http://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/packages/wget.htm
>
> max



From shaileshk at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 11:56:03 2009
From: shaileshk at gmail.com (shaileshkumar)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 08:56:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Programming by Contract
References: <4A7A15CD.9090306@stoneleaf.us> <4A81C6B8.7010605@stoneleaf.us> 
	<18F0FD2E-7C01-4B1C-85DF-28433C23D886@declareSub.com>
	
Message-ID: <78b17cf4-1e7b-4134-8626-2c352107ac27@f20g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

zope.interface provides extensive support for design by contract.
http://pypi.python.org/pypi/zope.interface.
This package can be used independently of zope in other projects.
- Shailesh

On Aug 12, 2:20?am, Ethan Furman  wrote:
> Charles Yeomans wrote:
>
> > On Aug 11, 2009, at 3:30 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
>
> >> Ethan Furman wrote:
>
> >>> Greetings!
> >>> I have seen posts about the assert statement and PbC (or maybe it ?
> >>> was DbC), and I just took a very brief look at pycontract
> >>> (http://www.wayforward.net/pycontract/) and now I have at least one
> >>> question: ?Is this basically another ?way of thinking about unit
> >>> testing, or is the idea of PbC more ?along the lines of *always*
> >>> checking the input/output of functions ?to ensure they are correct? ?
> >>> (*Contstant vigilance!* as Prof Moody ?would say ;)
> >>> I know asserts can be turned off, so they obviously won't work for ?
> >>> the latter case, and having seen the sample of pycontract it seems ?
> >>> it only does its thing during debugging.
> >>> So is Design (Programming) by Contract a fancy way of saying ?
> >>> "Document your inputs/outputs!" or is there more to it?
> >>> ~Ethan~
>
> >> Hmmm...
>
> >> Well, from the (apparently) complete lack of interest, I shall take ?
> >> away the (better?) documentation ideas and unit testing ideas, and ?
> >> not worry about the rest. ?:)
>
> > Design by contract is complementary to unit testing (I notice that the ?
> > author of PEP 316 appears confused about this). ?DbC is, roughly ?
> > speaking, about explicit allocation of responsibility. ?Consider this ?
> > contrived example.
>
> > def foo(s):
> > ? ? require(s is not None)
> > ? ? //code
> > ? ? ensure(hasattr(returnValue, '__iter__'))
>
> > The require condition tells you that it's the caller's responsibility ?
> > to pass a non-nil argument to foo. ?The ensure condition is a ?guarantee
> > that foo will return something suitable for iteration, if ?the
> > precondition in the require condition is satisfied. ?These ?conditions
> > can be enforced at runtime, but may not be, for reasons of ?performance.
>
> > DbC is in fact about not *always* checking the input/output of ?
> > functions; on the contrary, Bertrand Meyer, the inventor of DbC, ?claims
> > that DbC allows one to eliminate such redundancy, and the ?resulting
> > overhead.
>
> > Charles Yeomans
>
> Many thanks!
>
> So if I understand -- Python's EAFP fits well with DbC, as DbC seems
> well suited to say, "This is your responsibility, and this is mine,"
> stated in programming terms (who needs comments? ;) ?Combined with unit
> testing (which should be easier to design correctly given the DbC code),
> healthy code seems more attainable.
>
> Interesting. ?Thank you for the information.
>
> ~Ethan~



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Wed Aug 12 11:58:28 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 12 Aug 2009 15:58:28 GMT
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<8c7f10c60908120121v4bbf9040h9da68a650ef48566@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A82C355.8080304@sequans.com>
	
	<77a10bad-e0fe-4d50-95b2-f2f92a665001@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <0292d70e$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 08:11:43 -0700, Simon Forman wrote:

[quoting Robert Dailey]
>> I cannot completely doubt that there are logical
>> women out there. I just haven't seen one yet. But that doesn't mean I'm
>> a sexist.
> 
> Oh my.  And you were doing so well.  You haven't seen a logical woman? 
> Perhaps you're blind because your eyes were torn out by a raging
> marmoset?
> 
> Guess what?  Thinking (or just saying) that /does/ mean you're a sexist.
>  (Even if it was just another "friendly, harmless joke".)

It was an incredibly insensitive thing for Robert to say, having just 
been slapped for a previous insensitive "joke" about women. But still, 
most people, male or female, *aren't* logical. I know I've never met 
somebody who is entirely logical, of either sex, and I'm pretty sure I've 
not met very many people who are even mostly logical. Vulcans we are not. 
Does this mean I'm equally sexist against men *and* women? ("I'm not 
biased, I hate everyone equally!" *wink*)

Hell, here I am, at 2am, defending somebody I don't know, for saying 
something I don't approve of, against somebody who is saying something I 
agree with, out of some sort of misguided sense of fairness. Logic? Ha, 
what's logic got to do with it?



-- 
Steven


From db3l.net at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 12:04:45 2009
From: db3l.net at gmail.com (David Bolen)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:04:45 -0400
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
Message-ID: 

Robert Dailey  writes:

> Hey guys. Being a C++ programmer, I like to keep variable definitions
> close to the location in which they will be used. This improves
> readability in many ways. However, when I have a multi-line string
> definition at function level scope, things get tricky because of the
> indents. In this case indents are serving two purposes: For syntax and
> actual text output. The tabs for function scope should not be included
> in the contents of the string. (...)

Personally I'm in the camp that something like this should be hoisted
out of the code path (whether to global scope, a dedicated message
module or configuration file is a design choice).

But if it's going to stay inline, one approach that can maintain some
of the attractive qualities of a triple quoted string is to make use
of the textwrap module:

    import textwrap

    def RunCommand( commandList ):
       # ...
       if returnCode:
           failMsg = textwrap.dedent('''\
                     *************************************************
                     The following command returned exit code [{:#x}].
                     This represents failure of some form. Please review
                     the command output for more details on the issue.
                     ------------
                     {}
                     *************************************************
                     ''')

which removes any common leading whitespace (must be identical in terms
of any tabs/spaces).

This is still additional run-time processing, and most likely less
efficient than the joining of individual strings, but it does permit a
clean triple-quoted string so IMO is easier to read/maintain in the
source - providing the code indentation level doesn't get in the way
of the desired line length of the string.  You can also choose to
dedent the string a bit (say to the level of "failMsg") if needed
without being forced all the way back to the left margin.

You can also combine textwrap.dedent with some of the other options if
where the strings are defined makes it nicer if they still have some
indentation (say in a global Python module).  In that case, you'd most
likely just process them once when the module was imported, so any
inefficiency in textwrap.dedent is far less important.

-- David


From paul at boddie.org.uk  Wed Aug 12 12:06:30 2009
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 09:06:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	
	<7f7c3e90-6026-411f-8b4a-829798819128@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
	<0292a134$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<3a15345c-9d01-48ab-8f15-dd6053ea70a0@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<0292cb5a$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

On 12 Aug, 17:08, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 06:24:18 -0700, Paul Boddie wrote:
>
> > What does the Python entry on Wikipedia have to do with editing the
> > Python documentation in a Wiki?
>
> Good question. I was responding to you mentioning Wikipedia as a possible
> role model for the Python docs.

Yes, but claiming that only a few people want to edit a single entry
on one site (admittedly a popular one) isn't the same as saying that
few people would edit a documentation Wiki covering numerous different
things. A bunch of people edit the existing Python Wiki now, although
there's not that much direction behind it.

[...]

> It's not the people who suggest improvements to the docs that are the
> problem, but the ones who insist that the docs are terrible, but aren't
> willing to do anything but complain. Oh, and trolls like ... I hesitate
> to mention his name in case he has a bot monitoring the list ... first
> name starts with "X" followed by "ah", second name sounds like "Mee" ...
> who even if they make a few good points, they're lost in a sea of insults
> to others, arrogance and self-aggrandisement.

Right, but those good points are still worth taking on board. There
have been Xah Lee posts which have been relatively constructive, but
when the only responses are from people who see the name and can't be
bothered reading the message before issuing a stock "he's a troll"
response, the tone is likely to remain vulgar from that point onwards.
Xah Lee can be quite coherent and rational on comp.lang.lisp, which is
more than can be said for a number of regulars on that group.

[...]

> > P.S. The mention of "social problems" ties in with other remarks made
> > recently, and I've increasingly found it more trouble than has been
> > worthwhile to pursue Python-related matters of late. When one tries to
> > encourage people to participate in improving various things, which
> > usually means the community having to accept a degree of criticism,
> > people claim that it's encouraging "undesirable" influences to point
> > such critics in the right direction instead of showing them the door.
>
> Can you point me to a discussion where this has happened?

I won't name names as in some cases I've corresponded privately with
various people who have been perceived to be "trolls" (as you put it
above) and who have had the "don't talk to them" responses from
various regulars. Some people criticise in apparently unacceptable
ways for their own amusement, but most critics do so because they are
unaware of any better way and aren't aware of the most effective
methods to fix the issues that bother them, and this latter group is
clearly invested in finding solutions because they could quite easily
go and use something else. Certainly, I wouldn't spend my time
repeatedly enumerating the problems with a piece of technology if no-
one were interested in helping me do something about them.

> > When one tries to pursue such improvement matters oneself, people always
> > have something to say about the choice of technology or whether they
> > like the particular background colour being used
>
> You've discovered bike-shedding.
>
> > or indeed have an
> > opinion, typically shallow and negative, about anything but the task at
> > hand,
>
> When you're agitating for change, anyone defending the status quo has
> opinions which are shallow and negative. When you're happy with the
> status quo, possibly even for good, rational reasons and not just because
> you're a shallow-minded, ignorant, know-nothing nay-sayer, it's those
> agitating for change who have shallow and negative opinions. It's such a
> bother trying to determine who is right, so I prefer to just accuse the
> other guy of being shallow and negative rather than try to understand his
> point of view. I find it saves time in the long run.

I can expand what I've written to just about any project,
"improvement" or otherwise, where there may not be an existing
solution that anyone actually supports or is willing to use. And
still, if you give people something they could use (which is better
than effectively nothing), my experience is that in some communities
your work, however trivial, will be appreciated. But I get the
impression that in Python-related communities, it's all "Why didn't
you use XYZ?" or "What a toy!" instead.

[...]

> There seems to be a hidden assumption in your sentence that there *are*
> structural problems in the project.

Let me assume that maybe the barriers aren't really that bad for
Python documentation; that anyone who is really going to care about
submitting something will jump through the hoops and deliver something
that can be merged by the core developers. Even then, there's going to
be a whole class of improvements that won't get made by outsiders and
will fall on the editors to make. Now, more often than not, the people
who are already the most overworked are precisely those in the
position of reviewing and merging changes (as well as making their
own), and surely they will want to delegate some of that work, but
it's the classic pitfall of "delegation failure": they don't have the
capacity to delegate because that just means even more work for them
as a result. Shower such people with trivial change requests or bug
reports about documentation errors, and it's clear that the processes
aren't helping the editors to do more or for an increased number of
people to usefully collaborate.

I'm almost past caring about the documentation - it's useful for most
of what I want it for - because the bulk of the documentation that I
do use concerns the standard library which looks more and more
antiquated and disorganised every time I look at its contents. I don't
see any top-down remedy for this situation - Python 3 didn't even
bother with it properly - and maybe the solution will ultimately
involve a completely independent standard library developed by people
under their own steam who will then be criticised for not choosing the
most permissive licence possible and/or being technologically
backwards in some aspect of what they've done. That would, after all,
be the "Pythonic" response I'd most expect to see.

Paul


From rcdailey at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 12:13:21 2009
From: rcdailey at gmail.com (Robert Dailey)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 09:13:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Multithreaded library for Python?
Message-ID: 

Hey guys,

I realize the python library has multithreading support in it, but not
the kind I'm really looking for. I want something like Intel's TBB,
but for Python 3.1. I need to be able to spawn off "Tasks" that
operate until completed and then end by themselves. I could create my
own framework for this, but why bother if a solution already exists?
Anyone know of any libraries out there that would work?


From dotancohen at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 12:18:43 2009
From: dotancohen at gmail.com (Dotan Cohen)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 19:18:43 +0300
Subject: Scraping Wikipedia with Python
In-Reply-To: <7xd472hz2x.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: 
	<4a81b6f0$0$1590$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	
	<6YidncRAiJ6SIxzXRVn_vwA@giganews.com>
	
	<7xd472hz2x.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <880dece00908120918u37b30c46w62a6edc850c644a9@mail.gmail.com>

> maybe you want dbpedia.

I did not know about this. Thanks!

That is the reason why I ask. This list has an unbelievable collective
knowledge and I am certain that asking "how much is 2+2" would net an
insightful answer that would teach me something.

Thank you, Paul, and thank you to the entire Python list!

-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il


From dotancohen at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 12:19:59 2009
From: dotancohen at gmail.com (Dotan Cohen)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 19:19:59 +0300
Subject: Scraping Wikipedia with Python
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<4a81b6f0$0$1590$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	
	
Message-ID: <880dece00908120919n1fb8a74cj55641eae6654040f@mail.gmail.com>

> http://pypi.python.org/pypi?%3Aaction=search&term=wikipedia ?
>

Thanks, Thorsten, I will go through those. I did not know about that
resource, I am not a regular coder. One more resource to add to the
toolbox!


-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il


From dstanek at dstanek.com  Wed Aug 12 12:28:25 2009
From: dstanek at dstanek.com (David Stanek)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:28:25 -0400
Subject: httplib incredibly slow :-(
In-Reply-To: <4A81D3CB.7080209@simplistix.co.uk>
References: <4A81D3CB.7080209@simplistix.co.uk>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 4:25 PM, Chris Withers wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I'm using the following script to download a 150Mb file:
>
> from base64 import encodestring
> from httplib import HTTPConnection
> from datetime import datetime
>
> conn = HTTPSConnection('localhost')
> headers = {}
> auth = 'Basic '+encodestring('username:password').strip()
> headers['Authorization']=auth
> t = datetime.now()
> print t
> conn.request('GET','/somefile.zip',None,headers)
> print 'request:',datetime.now()-t
> response = conn.getresponse()
> print 'response:',datetime.now()-t
> data = response.read()
> print 'read:',datetime.now()-t
>
> The output shows it takes over 20 minutes to do this.
> However, this is on a local network, and downloading the same file in IE
> takes under 3 seconds!
>
> I saw this issue:
>
> http://bugs.python.org/issue2576
>
> I tried changing the buffer size to 4096 in a subclass as the issue
> suggested, but I didn't see the reported speed improvement.
> I'm using Python 2.6.2.
>
> Does anyone know of an alternative library for creating http requests and
> getting their responses that's faster but hopefully has a similar interface?
>

I tried to reproduce this, but I could not. Could you paste in the
output of your script? Also on the same box where you run this script
can you test with curl or wget?

-- 
David
blog: http://www.traceback.org
twitter: http://twitter.com/dstanek


From hobesh at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 12:30:48 2009
From: hobesh at gmail.com (Zach Hobesh)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 09:30:48 -0700
Subject: Mimicing an HTML form
Message-ID: 

Hi all,
I'm having alot of trouble automating the submitting of form.  I have an
HTML page that works and it looks like this:














When I put valid values for the handling script an app ID, this page works.
 Now I'm trying to turn this same functionality into a script.  Here's my
code:

import urllib
import os
import urllib2

appID = *value here*
video = os.path.normpath(os.getcwd() + '/news.wmv')
title = 'News'
desc = 'Here is a sample News video'

uploader = *script here*

print "Encoding url..."
data = urllib.urlencode({"FileUploadedVideo": video,
                         "hdnADCID" : appID,
                         "txtTitle" : title,
                         "txtDescription": desc})

user_agent = 'Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows NT)'
headers = { 'User-Agent' : user_agent }


print "Calling url..."
req = urllib2.Request(uploader, data, headers)

response = urllib2.urlopen(req)
s = response.read()
response.close()

print "Writing results..."
result = open('result.html','w')
result.write(s)
result.close()

Does anybody have any suggestions?  I keep on getting bad request, so I'm
assuming that the html page is passing something that my script is not.  Is
there some way to scrape the POST request from the html form?

Thanks,

Zach
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From chris at simplistix.co.uk  Wed Aug 12 12:37:48 2009
From: chris at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 17:37:48 +0100
Subject: httplib incredibly slow :-(
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4A81D3CB.7080209@simplistix.co.uk>
	
Message-ID: <4A82EFDC.70502@simplistix.co.uk>

David Stanek wrote:
> I tried to reproduce this, but I could not. Could you paste in the
> output of your script? 

Not sure how that'll help, but sure:

2009-08-11 21:27:59.153000
request: 0:00:00.109000
response: 0:00:00.109000
read: 0:24:31.266000

 > Also on the same box where you run this script
> can you test with curl or wget?

It's a Windows box, so no :-(
But it really does download in a few seconds with IE, and 20min+ using 
the script I included...

Chris

-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting
            - http://www.simplistix.co.uk


From ebonak at hotmail.com  Wed Aug 12 12:42:17 2009
From: ebonak at hotmail.com (Esmail)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:42:17 -0400
Subject: best practice for documenting a project? pydoc?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	
	
Message-ID: 

shaileshkumar wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> EPYDOC is very good for automatic generation of documentation from
> source code.
> 
> You may also consider Sphinx http://sphinx.pocoo.org/ which is used
> for many
> projects including the official Python documentation, documentation of
> Zope (http://docs.zope.org/).
> See the full list of projects using Sphinx at http://sphinx.pocoo.org/examples.html
> 
> - Shailesh

Hi,

Thanks for the links. Have you heard of something called HappyDoc? I just
came across it by looking for info on epydoc.

Thanks,
Esmail



From ebonak at hotmail.com  Wed Aug 12 12:43:04 2009
From: ebonak at hotmail.com (Esmail)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:43:04 -0400
Subject: best practice for documenting a project? pydoc?
In-Reply-To: 
References:  
Message-ID: 

Mark Lawrence wrote:
Hi Mark,

> The docs for the constraint package look good, see
> http://labix.org/python-constraint and http://labix.org/doc/constraint.
> I think they've been produced with epydoc see 
> http://epydoc.sourceforge.net/

Thanks for the links, I'll take a look.

Any experience with something called HappyDoc? Just came across it.

Esmail




From mdekauwe at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 12:43:11 2009
From: mdekauwe at gmail.com (Martin)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 09:43:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: matching patterns after regex?
References: <61bef795-f146-4bdd-b5b3-a212e6d9197c@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<2387d409-110a-451d-b301-6d7fe4abc793@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> 
	 
	<0292a4a9$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<18d5d342-b678-4101-a284-24d6176ac856@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 12, 1:42 pm, Martin  wrote:
> On Aug 12, 1:23 pm, Steven D'Aprano 
>
>
> cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> > On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 05:12:22 -0700, Martin wrote:
> > > I tried
>
> > > re.findall((\w+COORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.\w-]+),s)
>
> > You need to put quotes around strings.
>
> > In this case, because you're using regular expressions, you should use a
> > raw string:
>
> > re.findall(r"(\w+COORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.\w-]+)",s)
>
> > will probably work.
>
> > --
> > Steven
>
> Thanks I see.
>
> so I tried it and if I use it as it is, it matches the first instance:
> I
> n [594]: re.findall(r"(\w+COORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.\w-]+)",s)
> Out[594]: [('NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE', '1')]
>
> So I adjusted the first part of the regex, on the basis I could sub
> NORTH for SOUTH etc.
>
> In [595]: re.findall(r"(NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.
> \w-]+)",s)
> Out[595]: [('NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE', '1')]
>
> But in both cases it doesn't return the decimal value rather the value
> that comes after NUM_VAL = , rather than VALUE = ?

I think I kind of got that to work...but I am clearly not quite
understanding how it works as I tried to use it again to match
something else.

In this case I want to print the values 0.000000 and 2223901.039333
from a string like this...

YDim=1200\n\t\tUpperLeftPointMtrs=(0.000000,2223901.039333)\n\t\t

I tried which I though was matching the statement and printing the
decimal number after the equals sign??

re.findall(r"(\w+UpperLeftPointMtrs)*=\s([\d\.\w-]+)", s)

where s is the string

Many thanks for the help


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Wed Aug 12 12:46:32 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 09:46:32 -0700
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>		<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>		<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>		<7f7c3e90-6026-411f-8b4a-829798819128@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>	<0292a134$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<3a15345c-9d01-48ab-8f15-dd6053ea70a0@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>	<0292cb5a$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <4A82F1E8.3090105@stoneleaf.us>

Paul Boddie wrote:
> On 12 Aug, 17:08, Steven D'Aprano  cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>>It's not the people who suggest improvements to the docs that are the
>>problem, but the ones who insist that the docs are terrible, but aren't
>>willing to do anything but complain. Oh, and trolls like ... I hesitate
>>to mention his name in case he has a bot monitoring the list ... first
>>name starts with "X" followed by "ah", second name sounds like "Mee" ...
>>who even if they make a few good points, they're lost in a sea of insults
>>to others, arrogance and self-aggrandisement.
> 
> 
> Right, but those good points are still worth taking on board. 

The responsibility for communication is shared.  How much to each party 
varies by circumstance (employer/employee, rank, volunteer, etc.).  For 
myself, his posts are automatically deleted -- my time is precious to me.

~Ethan~


From chris at simplistix.co.uk  Wed Aug 12 12:53:56 2009
From: chris at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 17:53:56 +0100
Subject: httplib incredibly slow :-(
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4A81FDF5.6010508@simplistix.co.uk>	<4A8274A9.7000905@simplistix.co.uk>
	
	
Message-ID: <4A82F3A4.8020903@simplistix.co.uk>

shaileshkumar wrote:
> We use PyCURL on Windows. http://pycurl.sourceforge.net/ provides pre-
> built versions for Windows and it works out of the box.

Does it include libcurl? Are these builds available for Python 2.6?

Chris

-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting
            - http://www.simplistix.co.uk


From chris at simplistix.co.uk  Wed Aug 12 12:57:16 2009
From: chris at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 17:57:16 +0100
Subject: httplib incredibly slow :-(
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4A81FDF5.6010508@simplistix.co.uk>	<4A8274A9.7000905@simplistix.co.uk>
	
Message-ID: <4A82F46C.4080105@simplistix.co.uk>

Max Erickson wrote:
> There is an httplib2 (but I don't know anything further about it...):
> 
> http://code.google.com/p/httplib2/

I had a look, it uses httplib, so will likely suffer from the same 
problems...

> Calling wget or curl using a subprocess is probably as easy as it is 
> ugly, I use the wget build from here:
> 
> http://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/packages/wget.htm

Yeah, no ;-)

Chris

-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting
            - http://www.simplistix.co.uk


From shaileshk at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 13:00:08 2009
From: shaileshk at gmail.com (Shailesh Kumar)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 22:30:08 +0530
Subject: httplib incredibly slow :-(
In-Reply-To: <4A82F3A4.8020903@simplistix.co.uk>
References: <4A81FDF5.6010508@simplistix.co.uk>
	<4A8274A9.7000905@simplistix.co.uk>
	
	
	<4A82F3A4.8020903@simplistix.co.uk>
Message-ID: <92e4c3710908121000y3bcc8de6w56f767d78aa34ba6@mail.gmail.com>

Yes it includes libcurl. I didn't have to install it separately. I still
continue to use Python 2.4. So cannot say about Python 2.6.

- Shailesh

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 10:23 PM, Chris Withers wrote:

> shaileshkumar wrote:
>
>> We use PyCURL on Windows. http://pycurl.sourceforge.net/ provides pre-
>> built versions for Windows and it works out of the box.
>>
>
> Does it include libcurl? Are these builds available for Python 2.6?
>
> Chris
>
> --
> Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting
>           - http://www.simplistix.co.uk
>
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From no.email at please.post  Wed Aug 12 13:01:01 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 17:01:01 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to find all possibly overlapping matches?
Message-ID: 



re.findall finds all non-overlapping matches, but what if one wants
all (maximal) matches, even those that overlap?

All the solutions I can come up involve calling re.search iteratively,
each time giving it a pos parameter starting just after the start
of the previous match.

Is there a built-in solution to such a task?

TIA!

kynn


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Aug 12 13:23:21 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 18:23:21 +0100
Subject: How to find all possibly overlapping matches?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A82FA89.1040503@mrabarnett.plus.com>

kj wrote:
> 
> re.findall finds all non-overlapping matches, but what if one wants
> all (maximal) matches, even those that overlap?
> 
> All the solutions I can come up involve calling re.search iteratively,
> each time giving it a pos parameter starting just after the start
> of the previous match.
> 
> Is there a built-in solution to such a task?
> 
Not in the re module.

It has been requested and is in my regex implementation at
http://bugs.python.org/issue2636 if you want to try that.


From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 13:23:50 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 10:23:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<3611ca55-79a6-4336-9041-07d0893789f7@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
	<0447e8a2-508d-45b2-8d15-da0cc2a56b5f@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	
	 
	<0291a21a$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<8152546e-1f6f-4ea5-9b10-e1d9b5ffdab8@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	
	<1a0e1e6d-d902-4df7-8d35-850c4f62cc9c@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 12, 3:08?am, Steven D'Aprano
 wrote:

> On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:48:24 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:
> > In any case, my argument has consistently been that Python should have
> > treated undefined escape sequences consistently as fatal errors,
>
> A reasonable position to take. I disagree with it, but it is certainly
> reasonable.
>
> > not as warnings.
>
> I don't know what language you're talking about here, because non-special
> escape sequences in Python aren't either errors or warnings:
>
> >>> print "ab\cd"
>
> ab\cd

I was talking about C++, whose compilers tend to generate warnings for
this usage. I think that the C++ compilers I've used take the right
approach, only ideally they should be *even* more emphatic, and
elevate the problem from a warning to an error.

I assume, however, that the warning is a middle ground between doing
the completely right thing, and, I assume, maintaining backward
compatibility with common C implementations. As Python never had to
worry about backward compatibility with C, Python didn't have to walk
such a middle ground.

On the other hand, *now* it has to worry about backward compatibility
with itself.

|>ouglas




From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Aug 12 13:31:12 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 18:31:12 +0100
Subject: best practice for documenting a project? pydoc?
In-Reply-To: 
References:  
	
Message-ID: 

Esmail wrote:
> Mark Lawrence wrote:
> Hi Mark,
> 
>> The docs for the constraint package look good, see
>> http://labix.org/python-constraint and http://labix.org/doc/constraint.
>> I think they've been produced with epydoc see 
>> http://epydoc.sourceforge.net/
> 
> Thanks for the links, I'll take a look.
> 
> Any experience with something called HappyDoc? Just came across it.
> 
> Esmail
> 
> 
Sorry never heard of it, or if I had I've forgotten it.

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From davea at ieee.org  Wed Aug 12 13:35:45 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 13:35:45 -0400
Subject: fileinput
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A82FD71.70501@ieee.org>

naaman wrote:
> I'm writing my first Python script and
> I want to use fileinput to open a file in r+ mode.
> Tried fileinput.input(sys.argv[1:],"r+") but that didn't work.
> ANy ideas?
>
> Need to find and overwrite a line in a file several times.
> I can do it using open and seek() etc. but was wondering if I can use
> fileinput.
>
> thanks;
>
>
>   
I haven't used it, but check out the 'inplace' keyword parameter.

DaveA


From jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu  Wed Aug 12 13:37:45 2009
From: jstroud at mbi.ucla.edu (James Stroud)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 10:37:45 -0700
Subject: hashability
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Well there you go -- why on earth would you prohibit None as a dictionary 
> key??? That's a serious failure.


roentgen 1% python
Python 2.5 (r25:51908, Sep 20 2006, 17:36:21) 
[GCC 3.4.2] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
py> hash(None)
135543872


mbi136-176 98% /usr/bin/python
Python 2.5.1 (r251:54863, Feb  6 2009, 19:02:12) 
[GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Inc. build 5465)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
py> hash(None)
2030240



That's why. Read the whole thread. You are one of the abrasive ones.


From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 13:47:55 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 10:47:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<3611ca55-79a6-4336-9041-07d0893789f7@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
	<0447e8a2-508d-45b2-8d15-da0cc2a56b5f@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	
	 
	<0291a21a$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<8152546e-1f6f-4ea5-9b10-e1d9b5ffdab8@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 12, 3:36?am, Steven D'Aprano
 wrote:

> On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:20:52 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:

> > My "Annotated C++ Reference Manual" is packed, and surprisingly in
> > Stroustrup's Third Edition, there is no mention of the issue in the
> > entire 1,000 pages. But Microsoft to the rescue:
>
> > ? ? ?If you want a backslash character to appear within a string, you
> > ? ? ?must type two backslashes (\\)
>
> > (From http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/69ze775t.aspx)
>
> Should I assume that Microsoft's C++ compiler treats it as an error, not
> a warning?

In my experience, C++ compilers generally generate warnings for such
situations, where they can. (Clearly, they often can't generate
warnings for running off the end of an array, which is also undefined,
though a really smart C++ compiler might be able to generate a warning
in certain such circumstances.)

> Or is is this *still* undefined behaviour, and MS C++ compiler
> will happily compile "ab\cd" whatever it feels like?

If it's a decent compiler, it will generate a warning. Who can say
with Microsoft, however. It's clearly documented as illegal code,
however.

> > The question of what any specific C++ does if you ignore the warning is
> > irrelevant, as such behavior in C++ is almost *always* undefined. Hence
> > the warning.
>
> So a C++ compiler which follows Python's behaviour would be behaving
> within the language specifications.

It might be, but there are also *recommendations* in the C++ standard
about what to do in such situations, and the recommendations say, I am
pretty sure, not to do that, unless the particular compiler in
question has to meet some very specific backward compatibility needs.

> I note that the bash shell, which claims to follow C semantics, also does
> what Python does:
>
> $ echo $'a s\trin\g with escapes'
> a s ? ? rin\g with escapes

Really? Not on my computers. (One is a Mac, and the other is a Fedora
Core Linux box.) On my computers, bash doesn't seem to have *any*
escape sequences, other than \\, \", \$, and \`. It seems to treat
unknown escape sequences the same as Python does, but as there are
only four known escape sequences, and they are all meant merely to
guard against string interpolation, and the like, it's pretty darn
easy to keep straight.

> Explain to me again why we're treating underspecified C++ semantics,
> which may or may not do *exactly* what Python does, as if it were the One
> True Way of treating escape sequences?

I'm not saying that C++ does it right for Python. The right thing for
Python to do is to generate an error, as Python doesn't have to deal
with all the crazy complexities that C++ has to.

|>ouglas


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Wed Aug 12 13:50:33 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 13:50:33 -0400
Subject: hashability
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908121050w6fe89277n9f9b76b28f937f83@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:37 PM, James Stroud wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>
>> Well there you go -- why on earth would you prohibit None as a dictionary
>> key??? That's a serious failure.
>
>
> roentgen 1% python
> Python 2.5 (r25:51908, Sep 20 2006, 17:36:21) [GCC 3.4.2] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> py> hash(None)
> 135543872
>
>
> mbi136-176 98% /usr/bin/python
> Python 2.5.1 (r251:54863, Feb ?6 2009, 19:02:12) [GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Inc.
> build 5465)] on darwin
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> py> hash(None)
> 2030240

Actually, None is a special-case as a built-in singleton value --
there's only ever *exactly one* instance of it in a given interpreter
session. And I'm reasonably sure dict pickles don't store the hash
code of items (the dict gets recreated from scratch), so there's no
problem.

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From no.email at please.post  Wed Aug 12 14:00:16 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 18:00:16 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to find all possibly overlapping matches?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

In  MRAB  writes:

>kj wrote:
>> 
>> re.findall finds all non-overlapping matches, but what if one wants
>> all (maximal) matches, even those that overlap?
>> 
>> All the solutions I can come up involve calling re.search iteratively,
>> each time giving it a pos parameter starting just after the start
>> of the previous match.
>> 
>> Is there a built-in solution to such a task?
>> 
>Not in the re module.

>It has been requested and is in my regex implementation at
>http://bugs.python.org/issue2636 if you want to try that.

Cool.  Thanks!

kynn


From abecedarian314159 at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 12 14:08:17 2009
From: abecedarian314159 at yahoo.com (William)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:08:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: SQLObject 0.11.0
In-Reply-To: <20090812102452.GE5602@phd.pp.ru>
References: <20090812102452.GE5602@phd.pp.ru>
Message-ID: <630942.37631.qm@web110607.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

I don't want to start a flame war and would just like some information before diving in--
What are some the advantages and disadvantages of SQLObject compared to SQLAlchemy?

Thanks,
William



________________________________
From: Oleg Broytmann 
To: Python Mailing List ; Python Announce Mailing List 
Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 6:24:53 AM
Subject: SQLObject 0.11.0

Hello!

I'm pleased to announce version 0.11.0, the first stable release of 0.11 branch
of SQLObject.


What is SQLObject
=================

SQLObject is an object-relational mapper.  Your database tables are described
as classes, and rows are instances of those classes.  SQLObject is meant to be
easy to use and quick to get started with.

SQLObject supports a number of backends: MySQL, PostgreSQL, SQLite,
Firebird, Sybase, MSSQL and MaxDB (also known as SAPDB).


Where is SQLObject
==================

Site:
http://sqlobject.org

Development:
http://sqlobject.org/devel/

Mailing list:
https://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/sqlobject-discuss

Archives:
http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.sqlobject

Download:
http://cheeseshop.python.org/pypi/SQLObject/0.11.0

News and changes:
http://sqlobject.org/News.html


What's New
==========

News since 0.10
-----------------

Features & Interface
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

* Dropped support for Python 2.3. The minimal version of Python for
  SQLObject is 2.4 now.

* Dropped support for PostgreSQL 7.2. The minimal supported version of
  PostgreSQL is 7.3 now.

* New magic attribute 'j' similar to 'q' was added that automagically does
  join with the other table in MultipleJoin or RelatedJoin.

* SQLObject can now create and drop a database in MySQL, PostgreSQL, SQLite
  and Firebird/Interbase.

* Added some support for schemas in PostgreSQL.

* Added DecimalStringCol - similar to DecimalCol but stores data as strings
  to work around problems in some drivers and type affinity problem in
  SQLite.

* Added sqlobject.include.hashcol.HashCol - a column type that automatically
  hashes anything going into it, and returns out an object that hashes
  anything being compared to itself. Basically, it's good for really simple
  one-way password fields, and it even supports the assignment of None to
  indicate no password set. By default, it uses the md5 library for
  hashing, but this can be changed in a HashCol definition.

* RowDestroyedSignal and RowUpdatedSignal were added.

Minor features
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

* Use reversed() in manager/command.py instead of .__reversed__().

* Minor change in logging to console - logger no longer stores the output
  file, it gets the file from module sys every time by name; this means
  logging will use new sys.stdout (or stderr) in case the user changed
  them.

* Changed the order of testing of SQLite modules - look for external
  PySQLite2 before sqlite3.

For a more complete list, please see the news:
http://sqlobject.org/News.html

Oleg.
-- 
     Oleg Broytmann            http://phd.pp.ru/            phd at phd.pp.ru
           Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



      
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From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Wed Aug 12 14:11:40 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 12 Aug 2009 18:11:40 GMT
Subject: hashability
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <0292f646$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 10:37:45 -0700, James Stroud wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> Well there you go -- why on earth would you prohibit None as a
>> dictionary key??? That's a serious failure.
> 
> 
> roentgen 1% python
> Python 2.5 (r25:51908, Sep 20 2006, 17:36:21) [GCC 3.4.2] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> py> hash(None)
> 135543872
> 
> 
> mbi136-176 98% /usr/bin/python
> Python 2.5.1 (r251:54863, Feb  6 2009, 19:02:12) [GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Inc.
> build 5465)] on darwin Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license"
> for more information. py> hash(None)
> 2030240
> 
> 
> 
> That's why. Read the whole thread. You are one of the abrasive ones.

I've read the whole thread. Pay close attention:

[steve at ando ~]$ python
Python 2.4.3 (#1, Mar 14 2007, 18:51:08)
[GCC 4.1.1 20070105 (Red Hat 4.1.1-52)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import pickle
>>> d = {None: 42}
>>> f = open('pickled_dict', 'w')
>>> pickle.dump(d, f)
>>> f.close()
>>>
[steve at ando ~]$ ssh sylar
steve at sylar's password:
Last login: Wed Aug 12 21:44:47 2009
[steve at sylar ~]$ python2.6
Python 2.6.1 (r261:67515, Dec 24 2008, 00:33:13)
[GCC 4.1.2 20070502 (Red Hat 4.1.2-12)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import pickle
>>> f = open('pickled_dict', 'r')
>>> d = pickle.load(f)
>>> d
{None: 42}


I have successfully pickled a dict using None as a key on one machine 
using Python 2.4, and unpickled it on a completely different machine 
running Python 2.6.

Still think that pickling None is a problem?



-- 
Steven


From schwehr at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 14:11:49 2009
From: schwehr at gmail.com (Kurt Schwehr)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:11:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Pulling arrays from database for plotting
Message-ID: <64fa9d35-a08b-4112-ba84-131f0f29c0f4@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

Hi all,

What's the best way to pull arrays from a database for plotting?
Right now, this is what I do, but can it be done simpler / more
efficiently?

ipython -pylab
import sqlite3
cx = sqlite3.connect('20080407.decimated.db3')
a = array( [tuple(row) for row in cx.execute('SELECT cg_offset,
delta_t_sec FROM bs_time WHERE recvr=2;')] )
x = a[:,0]
y = a[:,1]
plot(x,y)

However, if I try to plot it directly using transpose, it hangs:

import sqlite3
cx = sqlite3.connect('20080407.decimated.db3')
plot(array( [tuple(row) for row in cx.execute('SELECT cg_offset,
delta_t_sec FROM bs_time WHERE recvr=2;')] ).transpose())

It is that plot just doesn't know what to do with a 2D array?  Then I
tried this and it works, but is long and confusing to the uninitiated.

plot(*array( [tuple(row) for row in cx.execute('SELECT cg_offset,
delta_t_sec FROM bs_time WHERE recvr=2;')] ).T)



In [4]: a
Out[4]:
array([[  2.40000000e+01,   0.00000000e+00],
       [  2.50000000e+01,  -1.00000000e+00],
       [  3.40000000e+01,   0.00000000e+00],
       ...,
       [  8.63840000e+04,   2.00000000e+01],
       [  8.63940000e+04,   2.00000000e+01],
       [  8.64040000e+04,   2.00000000e+01]])

In [5]: a.transpose()
Out[5]:
array([[  2.40000000e+01,   2.50000000e+01,   3.40000000e+01, ...,
          8.63840000e+04,   8.63940000e+04,   8.64040000e+04],
       [  0.00000000e+00,  -1.00000000e+00,   0.00000000e+00, ...,
          2.00000000e+01,   2.00000000e+01,   2.00000000e+01]])





From python at rcn.com  Wed Aug 12 14:27:42 2009
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:27:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	
	<7f7c3e90-6026-411f-8b4a-829798819128@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3fdfb992-058b-4017-b1b3-db3a9542b62e@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 12, 3:32?am, Paul Boddie  wrote:
> Maybe the problem is that although everyone welcomes contributions and
> changes (or says that they do), the mechanisms remain largely beyond
> criticism.

FWIW, I support the idea the regular docs incorporating links to
freely editable wiki pages.  That will at least make it easier for
people to make changes or add notes.

That being said, I would like to add a few thoughts about the
current process.   ISTM that important corrections (when the
docs are clearly in error) tend to get made right away.  What
is more interesting are the doc requests that get rejected
and why:

* Many doc requests come from people just learning the language
(that makes sense because the learning process involves reading
the docs).  Unfortunately, a fair number of those requests are
flat-out wrong or represent a profound misunderstanding of the
feature in question.  That may be an indicator that the docs
need to be improved, but the specific suggestion can be inane.

* Some doc requests come from people who simply do not like the
feature in question.  It is natural for tastes, styles, and
preferences to vary; however, we do have a firm rule that Guido's
tastes, styles, and preferences are the ones that go into the
language.  So the doc writers need to try to channel Guido instead
of fighting him.  So, if you think eval() is evil (I don't but many
do), we're not going to document that eval() should *never* be used.
If you hate super(), that's too bad -- the docs need to describe
what it does and how it was intended to be used -- the docs are no
place for diatribes on why inheritance is over-used and why you
think the world would be a better place without mixins or
multiple inheritance.

* Then, there is a matter of where to put a particular piece of
documentation (how many times do you repeat a concept that pervades
the language).  Hashing is a good example.  The docs can discuss how
some objects hash to their object id and that object ids can change
from run-to-run, but if someone gets tripped-up by the idea (hey,
my set reprs changed between runs, wtf!), they want the docs updated
in the specific place that tripped them up (i.e. you must put big
red warnings in the set documentation, and the dict documentation,
and everywhere else a hash gets used ...).   The core problem is that
the docs are interrelated -- the one place you're looking for
documentation of a specific builtin or function can't contain
every concept in the language.

* Some behaviors are intentionally left unspecified.  For the longest
time, Tim did not want to guarantee sort stability.  This left him
free to continue to search for algorithmic improvements that did not
have stability.  Later, the property was deemed so important that it
did become a guaranteed behavior.  Also, some things are unspecified
to make things easier for other implementations (IronPython, PyPy,
Jython, etc.)  We need to make sure that some one doesn't casually
go through the docs making doc promises that are hard to keep.

* Some things are just plain difficult to fully explain in English
and not misrepresent that actual behavior.  For example, the str.split
()
docs have been continuously tweaked over the years.  Even now, I think
there are corner cases that are not fully captured by the docs.
Casual
edits to str.split() docs are more likely than not to take them
farther
away from the truth.

* Then, there is the problem of talking too much.  A book could be
written about super(), but that shouldn't all go into the docs for
the super builtin.  Beginners often want to master all the builtins
and they try to read the doc page on builtin functions.  It used to be
that you could read through the builtin descriptions in a few minutes.
Now, it takes a concerted effort to get through.  It is hard to take
a sip of water from a firehose.  Too much information has make a
function harder to understand.

* My biggest pet peeve are requests to fill the docs with big red
warnings.  I do not want the docs to look like a mine field.  The
warnings
should be reserved for a handful of security or data corruption risks.
For the most part, the docs should be matter-of-fact, explaining what
a function or method does and how it was intended to be used.

Preferred:  "The value str.letters is locale dependent"

Not preferred:  "Caution, the str.letters value can be adversely
affected by the locale setting (it could even change length!); use
this
only when you are certain the locale setting will not violate any of
your program invariants; consider using a string literal instead; I
hate
string.letters and think Guido was smoking crack when it was
introduced."

* Another category of rejected doc requests come from people looking
for
absolution from one of their programming bugs.  It typically takes the
form of, "I made an assumption that the language did X, but it did Y
and my program didn't do what I wanted; therefore, the docs must be
to blame and they must change ...".  The suggestion is "I was
suprised"
implies "the docs are hosed".  The fact is that people with diffferent
backgrounds are going to have different expectations and someone is
going to get "surprised".  The docs need to say what functions do, but
they don't need to be changed everytime someone writes a buggy
program.

In short, most doc requests that get rejected are requests that didn't
actually improve the documentation.

I do support links from the regular docs to an external wiki but the
main docs should continue to go through the regular process using the
tracker.


Raymond




From fetchinson at googlemail.com  Wed Aug 12 14:40:01 2009
From: fetchinson at googlemail.com (Daniel Fetchinson)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:40:01 -0700
Subject: SQLObject 0.11.0
In-Reply-To: <630942.37631.qm@web110607.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <20090812102452.GE5602@phd.pp.ru>
	<630942.37631.qm@web110607.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: 

> I don't want to start a flame war and would just like some information
> before diving in--
> What are some the advantages and disadvantages of SQLObject compared to
> SQLAlchemy?

In short: sqlobject is much simpler (to use, to understand, etc) than
sqlalchemy and so I prefer it in small projects. This advantage is
also a disadvantage when you have large and complex projects in mind.

Cheers,
Daniel

-- 
Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 14:41:51 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:41:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: hashability
References: 
	 
	
Message-ID: <1797a24d-7437-4a5c-bb67-9a81abb095c0@p10g2000prm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 12, 10:37?am, James Stroud  wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> > Well there you go -- why on earth would you prohibit None as a dictionary
> > key??? That's a serious failure.
>
> roentgen 1% python
> Python 2.5 (r25:51908, Sep 20 2006, 17:36:21)
> [GCC 3.4.2] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> py> hash(None)
> 135543872
>
> mbi136-176 98% /usr/bin/python
> Python 2.5.1 (r251:54863, Feb ?6 2009, 19:02:12)
> [GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Inc. build 5465)] on darwin
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> py> hash(None)
> 2030240
>
> That's why. Read the whole thread. You are one of the abrasive ones.

FYI: If you need the actual hash value to be consistent across
versions of Python the built hash function won't suffice.  The
language doesn't guanrantee they will persist across versions.  (IIRC,
there was a change to the hash value of longs at one point related to
int/long unification issues.)

Now, when I saw your explanation I assumed that your persistence
mechanism merely doesn't preserve identity (unlike, say, simple
pickling, which does), meaning that objects that were once identical
might be reconstituted as non-identical (or vice versa), which would
be an issue if these objects are stored in dicts or sets.  Equality
must be preserved for dict keys and set members to continue to work
property.  However, the actual hash code doesn't need to be preserved.

As was mentioned already, None is guaranteed by the language to be
equal to itself, so equality is preserved and there should be no issue
with it, even if the hash code changes across invocations.

Now, if you are doing something weird with the hash value itself--
which I highly discourage--then all bets are off.


Carl Banks


From python at rcn.com  Wed Aug 12 15:15:07 2009
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:15:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <269572f2-5968-479b-a7e6-d3354a769250@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

[Xah Lee]
> i've wrote several articles about this issue, total time spend on this
> is probably more than 2 months full-time work. See:
>
> ? Python Documentation Problems
> ?http://xahlee.org/perl-python/python_doc_index.html

I just read you post.   You did devote a substantial amount of time
to the project.  Some of your criticisms are valid.  Wish you had
posted patches, I think many of them would have been accepted.

Since you wrote this a few years ago, many examples have
been added to the docs and more are forthcoming.



> I often receive thank you emails for 2 particular articles, which are
> most frequently google searched as indicated by my weblog:
>
> ? Python Doc Problem Example: gzip
> ?http://xahlee.org/perl-python/python_doc_gzip.html
>
> ? Python Doc Problem Example: sort()
> ?http://xahlee.org/perl-python/python_doc_sort.html
>
> ? Sorting in Python and Perl
> ?http://xahlee.org/perl-python/sort_list.html

Some are the criticisms are valid; others seem off-base.

Here are a few thoughts on list.sort() for those who are interested:

* The key= and reversed= parameters are not intended for special
cases, leaving cmp= for the general case.  They were intended to
be full replacements.  In Python3.x, the cmp function is gone.

* The interaction of the key= and cmp= functions can be made to
interact (the key function is first applied to every element and
the cmp function then gets applied to the results of the key
function).  This isn't a normal or intended use case, so the docs
don't delve into the subject.

* The reversed parameter does more than list.sort() followed by
list.reverse().  It also preserves stability in the event of equal
keys:

   >>> sorted([(1,2), (1,3)], key=itemgetter(0), reverse=True)
   [(1,2), (1,3)]

So it was not correct to say that the following are equivalent:

    li.sort(lambda x, y: cmp(x[1],y[1]), reverse=True)
    li.sort(lambda x, y: cmp(y[1],x[1]))

* We should link the sorted() and list.sort() docs to the
sorting how-to (with a fuller discussion on the art of sorting
including a discussion of operator.itemgetter() and
operator.attrgetter() which were designed to work with the key=
parameter.


Raymond




From mwkohout at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 15:44:51 2009
From: mwkohout at gmail.com (Michael Kohout)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:44:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Extending embedded python-can extensions be local to a dictionary?
Message-ID: <9d65250a-d4fa-440d-83ac-b22430284dab@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

Hello all-

I've got a multithreaded server-based application that I'd like to use
python to provide plugin support for.  At execution time I would like
each call to the plugin/plugins to have their own implementation of
these extension methods.

Looking at http://docs.python.org/extending/embedding.html#extending-embedded-python,
I see how to add functions, but it looks like they are added at a
global scope-not in a particular environment.  Is there any way to add
an extension to a local environment but not pollute the global env?

FYI, I'm embedding python 2.6, but I'm more than open to embedding
something newer.

thanks
Mike Kohout


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 16:14:51 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 13:14:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	
	<7f7c3e90-6026-411f-8b4a-829798819128@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
	<3fdfb992-058b-4017-b1b3-db3a9542b62e@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2fe731f6-8640-4e5c-bf39-62b22d635003@32g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 12, 1:27?pm, Raymond Hettinger  wrote:
(snip)
> * Many doc requests come from people just learning the language
> (that makes sense because the learning process involves reading
> the docs). ?Unfortunately, a fair number of those requests are
> flat-out wrong or represent a profound misunderstanding of the
> feature in question. ?That may be an indicator that the docs
> need to be improved...

Yes, if many people have problems with the docs then that must be a
*clue* to some underling problem in the way the docs are presented.
Whether its from misinfomation, misguidance, or just plain
misunderstanding on the reader's part that does not matter. There are
problems and we need the feedback from everybody noob-to-pro on how to
fix this conundrum. One thing that some naysayers may forget is the
fact that these noobs most likely have no idea *how*, *when*, or
*where* to voice a complaint so they just move on to the next language
or suffer with an incomplete understanding of the language and/or
proper python idioms. I would say the complaints that this list has
seen concerning docs only scratches the surface of the huge underling
issues that face us here!

> So, if you think eval() is evil (I don't but many
> do), we're not going to document that eval() should *never* be used.
> If you hate super(), that's too bad -- the docs need to describe
> what it does and how it was intended to be used -- the docs are no
> place for diatribes on why inheritance is over-used and why you
> think the world would be a better place without mixins or
> multiple inheritance.

Eloquent and beautiful a paragraph that was Raymond. Why, because
common sense is just so damn beautiful. Keep the docs clean of
personal opinions and just give us the facts people. Who cares about
the history of OOP --Google it!-- i want to read about using Python.
Give me the nitty-gritty-down-and-dirty-facts that relate to Python
syntax and structure, and only the facts, in the most strait forward
and common sense way so i can get on to actually writing some code!

If you seek self gratification visit c.l.py and vent away, everyone
else seems to.


From jschwab at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 16:34:19 2009
From: jschwab at gmail.com (jschwab)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 13:34:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Format Code Repeat Counts?
Message-ID: 

Are repeat counts supported Python's str.format() in some fashion?

In Fortran my format strings can have repeat counts.


write(*, fmt="3F8.3") [1, 2, 3]
   1.000  2.000   3.000


I don't think printf-style format codes, which is what'd I'd
previously used in Python, allow for repeat counts.

As a more concrete example, say I have several sets of letters in a
list of strings
     letters = ["aeiou", "hnopty", "egs", "amsp"]
and I wanted to build a regular expression string out of them like
     re_str <==> "[aeiou][hnopty][egs][amsp]"
Right now, the best I've got that doesn't require an explicit string
like "[{1}][{2}][{3}][{4}]" is
     re_str = "".join(map(lambda x: "[{0}]".format(x), letters))

Is there a better way?

Thanks,
Josiah




From alan.isaac at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 16:45:43 2009
From: alan.isaac at gmail.com (Alan G Isaac)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 20:45:43 GMT
Subject: csv.DictWriter.write_header()
Message-ID: 

Given a csv.DictWriter instance `dw`
I think it would be nice to be able to
say dw.write_header()
instead of
dw.writer.writerow(dw.fieldnames)

Good idea?

Alan Isaac


From bernard.chhun at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 16:53:41 2009
From: bernard.chhun at gmail.com (Bernard)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 13:53:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: matching patterns after regex?
References: <61bef795-f146-4bdd-b5b3-a212e6d9197c@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<2387d409-110a-451d-b301-6d7fe4abc793@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> 
	 
	<0292a4a9$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<18d5d342-b678-4101-a284-24d6176ac856@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <85652297-16e7-489f-9e36-5092941df002@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On 12 ao?t, 12:43, Martin  wrote:
> On Aug 12, 1:42 pm, Martin  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 12, 1:23 pm, Steven D'Aprano 
> > cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> > > On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 05:12:22 -0700, Martin wrote:
> > > > I tried
>
> > > > re.findall((\w+COORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.\w-]+),s)
>
> > > You need to put quotes around strings.
>
> > > In this case, because you're using regular expressions, you should use a
> > > raw string:
>
> > > re.findall(r"(\w+COORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.\w-]+)",s)
>
> > > will probably work.
>
> > > --
> > > Steven
>
> > Thanks I see.
>
> > so I tried it and if I use it as it is, it matches the first instance:
> > I
> > n [594]: re.findall(r"(\w+COORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.\w-]+)",s)
> > Out[594]: [('NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE', '1')]
>
> > So I adjusted the first part of the regex, on the basis I could sub
> > NORTH for SOUTH etc.
>
> > In [595]: re.findall(r"(NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.
> > \w-]+)",s)
> > Out[595]: [('NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE', '1')]
>
> > But in both cases it doesn't return the decimal value rather the value
> > that comes after NUM_VAL = , rather than VALUE = ?
>
> I think I kind of got that to work...but I am clearly not quite
> understanding how it works as I tried to use it again to match
> something else.
>
> In this case I want to print the values 0.000000 and 2223901.039333
> from a string like this...
>
> YDim=1200\n\t\tUpperLeftPointMtrs=(0.000000,2223901.039333)\n\t\t
>
> I tried which I though was matching the statement and printing the
> decimal number after the equals sign??
>
> re.findall(r"(\w+UpperLeftPointMtrs)*=\s([\d\.\w-]+)", s)
>
> where s is the string
>
> Many thanks for the help

You have to do it with 2 matches in the same regex:

regex = r"UpperLeftPointMtrs=\(([\d\.]+),([\d\.]+)"

The first match  is before the , and the second one is after the , :)

You should probably learn how to play with regexes.
I personnaly use a visual tool called RX Toolkit[1] that comes with
Komodo IDE.

[1] http://docs.activestate.com/komodo/4.4/regex.html


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 16:57:53 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 13:57:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Extending embedded python-can extensions be local to a 
	dictionary?
References: <9d65250a-d4fa-440d-83ac-b22430284dab@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <56b8b9d3-9166-4dc3-8166-1e60861d00b0@k26g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 12, 12:44?pm, Michael Kohout  wrote:
> Hello all-
>
> I've got a multithreaded server-based application that I'd like to use
> python to provide plugin support for. ?At execution time I would like
> each call to the plugin/plugins to have their own implementation of
> these extension methods.

I am guessing that what you really want is each call to have its own
data.  There isn't much reason for each call to have its own methods.

If that's not correct you will have to elaborate.


> Looking athttp://docs.python.org/extending/embedding.html#extending-embedded-py...,
> I see how to add functions, but it looks like they are added at a
> global scope-not in a particular environment. ?Is there any way to add
> an extension to a local environment but not pollute the global env?

A couple things.  They're not in a global scope, "globals" in Python
have a scope local to a module (global is a misnomer, at best it means
"globally accessible").  So you don't have to worry about a function
defined on one module clashing with a function defined in another
modules.

However, even if name-clashes aren't an issue there isn't much point
to defining the same function mulitple times for multiple calls.

What you probably want is to define a new type that contains all the
data extension code would need.  For each call to the plugin, you
would create an object of this type, then pass it to the appropriate
plugin function.


I have given you a vague answer because your question was vague; if
you want a better answer please rephrase to be more specific.  Include
details like what you would like the code of a Python plugin to look
like.


Carl Banks


From davigier at googlemail.com  Wed Aug 12 17:09:29 2009
From: davigier at googlemail.com (David)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:09:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to launch a function at regular time intervals ?
Message-ID: 

Hi all, I'm trying to launch a function at regular time intervals but
cannot find the way to do it. Here is the code I wrote (time_interval
is a user defined variable in seconds):

while(1)
  timestamp=datetime.now()
 
timestamp_seconds=timestamp.hour*3600+timestamp.minute*60+timestamp.second
  if timestamp_seconds % time_interval == 0: ****Call Function****

This does not work because during the second at which the condition
holds true, there is time to call the function several times. Since I
want to have this function called only once every x seconds, I tried
to add the following condition:

if timestamp_seconds % time_interval ==0 & timestamp.microsecond == 0

But it seems this second condition hardly ever happens (i.e. the
timestamp variable is not updated every microsecond, therefore it can
be 9998 then jump directly to 0003 for instance).

Has anyone run into a similar problem (and solved it) ?

Thanks for your help


From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 17:21:34 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:21:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<3611ca55-79a6-4336-9041-07d0893789f7@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
	<0447e8a2-508d-45b2-8d15-da0cc2a56b5f@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	
	<494d80f1-0b47-468c-bdd9-7a087f6d915c@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <7877b03a-09da-4836-804c-502b6f78003c@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 12, 5:32 am, Steven D'Aprano
 wrote:

> That problem basically boils down to a deep-seated
> philosophical disagreement over which philosophy a
> language should follow in regard to backslash escapes:
>
> "Anything not explicitly permitted is forbidden"
>
> versus
>
> "Anything not explicitly forbidden is permitted"

No, it doesn't. It boils down to whether a language should:

(1) Try it's best to detect errors as early as possible,
especially when the cost of doing so is low.

(2) Make code as readable as possible, in part by making
code as self-evident as possible by mere inspection and by
reducing the amount of stuff that you have to memorize. Perl
fails miserably in this regard, for instance.

(3) To quote Einstein, make everything as simple as
possible, and no simpler.

(4) Take innately ambiguous things and not force them to be
unambiguous by mere fiat.

Allowing a programmer to program using a completely
arbitrary resolution of "unrecognized escape sequences"
violates all of the above principles.

The fact that the meanings of unrecognized escape sequences
are ambiguous is proved by the fact that every language
seems to treat them somewhat differently, demonstrating that
there is no natural intuitive meaning for them.

Furthermore, allowing programmers to use "unrecognized escape
sequences" without raising an error violates:

(1) Explicit is better than implicit:

Python provides a way to explicitly specify that you want a
backslash. Every programmer should be encouraged to use
Python's explicit mechanism here.

(2) Simple is better than complex:

Python currently has two classes of ambiguously
interpretable escape sequences: "unrecognized ones", and
"illegal" ones. Making a single class (i.e. just illegal
ones) is simpler.

Also, not having to memorize escape sequences that you
rarely have need to use is simpler.

(3) Readability counts:

See above comments on readability.

(4) Errors should never pass silently:

Even the Python Reference Manual indicates that unrecognized
escape sequences are a source of bugs. (See more comments on
this below.)

(5) In the face of ambiguity, refuse the temptation to
guess.

Every language, other than C++, is taking a guess at what
the programmer would find to be most useful expansion for
unrecognized escape sequences, and each of the languages is
guessing differently. This temptation should be refused!

You can argue that once it is in the Reference Manual it is
no longer a guess, but that is patently specious, as Perl
proves. For instance, the fact that Perl will quietly convert
an array into a scalar for you, if you assign the array to a
scalar variable is certainly a "guess" of the sort that this
Python koan is referring to. Likewise for an arbitrary
interpretation of unrecognized escape sequences.

(6) There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious
way to do it.

What is the one obvious way to express "\\y"? It is "\\y" or
"\y"?

Python can easily make one of these ways the "one obvious
way" by making the other one raise an error.

(7) Namespaces are one honking great idea -- let's do more
of those!

Allowing "\y" to self-expand is intruding into the namespace
for special characters that require an escape sequence.

> C++ apparently forbids all escape sequences, with
> unspecified behaviour if you use a forbidden sequence,
> except for a handful of explicitly permitted sequences.
>
> That's not better, it's merely different.

It *is* better, as it catches errors early on at little
cost, and for all the other reasons listed above.

> Actually, that's not true -- that the C++ standard forbids
> a thing, but leaves the consequences of doing that thing
> unspecified, is clearly a Bad Thing.

Indeed. But C++ has backward compatibly issues that make
any that Python has to deal with, pale in comparison. The
recommended behavior for a C++ compiler, however, is to flag
the problem as an error or as a warning.

> So on at least one machine in the world, C++ simply strips
> out backslashes that it doesn't recognize, leaving the
> suffix. Unfortunately, we can't rely on that, because C++
> is underspecified.

No, *fortunately* you can't rely on it, forcing you to go
fix your code.

> Fortunately this is not a problem with
> Python, which does completely specify the behaviour of
> escape sequences so there are no surprises.

It's not a surprise when the C++ compiler issues a warning to
you. If you ignore the warning, then you have no one to
blame but yourself.

> Implicit has an actual meaning. You shouldn't use it as a
> mere term of opprobrium for anything you don't like.

Pardon me, but I'm using "implicit" to mean "implicit", and
nothing more.

Python's behavior here is "implicit" in the very same way
that Perl implicitly converts an array into a scalar for
you. (Though that particular Perl behavior is a far bigger
wart than Python's behavior is here!)

> > Because you've stated that "\y" is a legal escape
> > sequence, while the Python Reference Manual explicitly
> > states that it is an "unrecognized escape sequence", and
> > that such "unrecognized escape sequences" are sources of
> > bugs.
>
> There's that reading comprehension problem again.
>
> Unrecognised != illegal.

This is reasoning that only a lawyer could love.

The right thing for a programming language to do, when
handed something that is syntactically "unrecognized" is to
raise an error.

> It seems to me that the behaviour the Python designers
> were looking to avoid was the case where the coder
> accidentally inserted a backslash in the wrong place, and
> the language stripped the backslash out, e.g.:
>
> Wanted "a\bcd" but accidentally typed "ab\cd" instead, and
> got "abcd".

The moral of the story is that *any* arbitrary
interpretation of unrecognized escape sequences is a
potential source of bugs. In Python, you just end up with a
converse issue, where one might understandably assume that
"foo\bar" has a backslash in it, because "foo\yar" and
*most* other similar strings do. But then it doesn't.

> >> This is *exactly* like C++, except that in Python the
> >> semantics of \y and \\y are identical. Python doesn't
> >> guess what you mean, it *imposes* a meaning on the
> >> escape sequence. You just don't like that meaning.

> > That's because I don't like things that are
> > ill-conceived.

> And yet you like C++... go figure *wink*

Now that's a bold assertion!

I think that "tolerate C++" is more like it. But C++ does
have its moments.

|>ouglas


From python at rcn.com  Wed Aug 12 17:24:29 2009
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:24:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<269572f2-5968-479b-a7e6-d3354a769250@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <60bd3cab-1cab-4677-b640-8d126343615a@d9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

[Raymond Hettinger]
> Here are a few thoughts on list.sort() for those who are interested:

After one more reading of Xah Lee's posts on the documentation for
sort,
here are couple more thoughts:

* The reason that list.sort() allows None for the cmp parameter is not
so that you can write list.sort(None).  It was put there to make it
easier for people writing function definitions where the cmp function
is a possible argument:

   def sort_and_chop(seq, maxlen, cmp=None):
       s = seq[:]
       s.sort(cmp)           # needs to accept None as a possible
argument
       return s[:maxlen]

* The reason for implementing the key= parameter had nothing to do
with limitations of Python's compiler.  Instead, it was inspired by
the
decorate-sort-undecorate pattern.


Raymond


From senad.ibraimoski at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 17:27:54 2009
From: senad.ibraimoski at gmail.com (Senad Ibraimoski -student-Mathematical Institute Belgrade)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:27:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Plotting Quadratic Functions, pygame
Message-ID: 

Hello, I'm a new guy to this group, my professor recommend this group
to me, because I was boring him with questions.I'm new to python, and
I have problem plotting Quadratic Functions. Using module pygame.
Here is the code:

#!/usr/bin/env python
import pygame
def main():
	import sys
	import math
	from math import sqrt
	#Input equation coefficients
	screen=pygame.display.set_mode((400,400))
	pygame.display.set_caption( ' Ploting ' )
	screen.fill((255,255,255))
	pen=((0,0,255))
	dark=(0,0,0)
	ox=200
	oy=200
	a= int(raw_input('Input coefficient a ' ))
	b= int(raw_input('Input coefficient b ' ))
	c= int(raw_input('Input coefficient c ' ))
	pygame.draw.aaline(screen,((255,0,0)),((200,0)) ,((200,400)))
	pygame.draw.aaline(screen,((255,0,0)),((0,200)), ((400,200)))
	if a==0:
		if b==0:
			print 'No solutions'
		else:
			x= -c/b
			print x
	else:
		d=b*b-4*a*c
		if d<0:
			num=complex(-b/(2*a),sqrt(-d)/(2*a))
			print num
		else:
			x1=(-b+sqrt(d))/(2*a)
			x2=(-b-sqrt(d))/(2*a)
			print 'x1= ' ,x1
			print 'x2= ' ,x2
			while 1:
				for event in pygame.event.get():
					if event ==pygame.QUIT:
						print ' Quitting'
						pygame.quit()
						sys.exit(1)

				x=-50;
				while x<=50:
					y=(a*(x**2) + b*x + c) *(-1)
					screen.set_at(((x+ox),(y+oy)),dark)
					pygame.display.flip()
					x=x+1;

	return 0

if __name__ == '__main__': main()

For now I'm plotting function only when Determinant >0. Or in other
words, when equation has two solutions,
x1,x2 e R... Now if you start my program you will see where problem
is. It's with function, It so bad drawn.
When I try to increment x in loop by 0.1 for every pass, I get
problems because method set_at() Which sets pixel requires integer...

Also I see I have problems with event handling here:
while 1:
				for event in pygame.event.get():
					if event ==pygame.QUIT:
						print ' Quitting'
						pygame.quit()
						sys.exit(1)

When I click X, or exit on windows it doesn't exit.
What do you suggest I do...?
I don't have in this year Computer Graphics on my faculty. So this are
my first steps in this area of CS.

Regards,
S.I


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Aug 12 17:29:11 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 22:29:11 +0100
Subject: matching patterns after regex?
In-Reply-To: <85652297-16e7-489f-9e36-5092941df002@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <61bef795-f146-4bdd-b5b3-a212e6d9197c@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>	<2387d409-110a-451d-b301-6d7fe4abc793@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	
	<0292a4a9$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<18d5d342-b678-4101-a284-24d6176ac856@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>	
	<85652297-16e7-489f-9e36-5092941df002@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Bernard wrote:
> On 12 ao?t, 12:43, Martin  wrote:
>> On Aug 12, 1:42 pm, Martin  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Aug 12, 1:23 pm, Steven D'Aprano >> cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 05:12:22 -0700, Martin wrote:
>>>>> I tried
>>>>> re.findall((\w+COORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.\w-]+),s)
>>>> You need to put quotes around strings.
>>>> In this case, because you're using regular expressions, you should use a
>>>> raw string:
>>>> re.findall(r"(\w+COORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.\w-]+)",s)
>>>> will probably work.
>>>> --
>>>> Steven
>>> Thanks I see.
>>> so I tried it and if I use it as it is, it matches the first instance:
>>> I
>>> n [594]: re.findall(r"(\w+COORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.\w-]+)",s)
>>> Out[594]: [('NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE', '1')]
>>> So I adjusted the first part of the regex, on the basis I could sub
>>> NORTH for SOUTH etc.
>>> In [595]: re.findall(r"(NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.
>>> \w-]+)",s)
>>> Out[595]: [('NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE', '1')]
>>> But in both cases it doesn't return the decimal value rather the value
>>> that comes after NUM_VAL = , rather than VALUE = ?
>> I think I kind of got that to work...but I am clearly not quite
>> understanding how it works as I tried to use it again to match
>> something else.
>>
>> In this case I want to print the values 0.000000 and 2223901.039333
>> from a string like this...
>>
>> YDim=1200\n\t\tUpperLeftPointMtrs=(0.000000,2223901.039333)\n\t\t
>>
>> I tried which I though was matching the statement and printing the
>> decimal number after the equals sign??
>>
>> re.findall(r"(\w+UpperLeftPointMtrs)*=\s([\d\.\w-]+)", s)
>>
>> where s is the string
>>
>> Many thanks for the help
> 
> You have to do it with 2 matches in the same regex:
> 
> regex = r"UpperLeftPointMtrs=\(([\d\.]+),([\d\.]+)"
> 
> The first match  is before the , and the second one is after the , :)
> 
> You should probably learn how to play with regexes.
> I personnaly use a visual tool called RX Toolkit[1] that comes with
> Komodo IDE.
> 
> [1] http://docs.activestate.com/komodo/4.4/regex.html
Haven't tried it myself but how about this?
http://re-try.appspot.com/

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From no.email at please.post  Wed Aug 12 17:41:38 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 21:41:38 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: How to page output in >>> ?
Message-ID: 



How does one tell the python interactive interpreter to run the
next output to stdout through the default pager?  Basically, I'm
looking for Python's equivalent of Perl's debugger's "|" prefix,
as in

  DB<1> |print $long_output

TIA!

kynn


From i3dmaster at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 17:56:27 2009
From: i3dmaster at gmail.com (i3dmaster)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:56:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: httplib incredibly slow :-(
References: <4A81D3CB.7080209@simplistix.co.uk>
	 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 12, 9:37?am, Chris Withers  wrote:
> David Stanek wrote:
> > I tried to reproduce this, but I could not. Could you paste in the
> > output of your script?
>
> Not sure how that'll help, but sure:
>
> 2009-08-11 21:27:59.153000
> request: 0:00:00.109000
> response: 0:00:00.109000
> read: 0:24:31.266000
>
> ?> Also on the same box where you run this script
>
> > can you test with curl or wget?
>
> It's a Windows box, so no :-(
> But it really does download in a few seconds with IE, and 20min+ using
> the script I included...
>
> Chris
>
> --
> Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting
> ? ? ? ? ? ? -http://www.simplistix.co.uk

Just wanted to check if you can try turning on the debug mode for
httplib and see if you can read a bit more debug info on where the
calls get hung. In your example, it would be conn.set_debuglevel(1)


From lists at cheimes.de  Wed Aug 12 18:01:44 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 00:01:44 +0200
Subject: How to launch a function at regular time intervals ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A833BC8.1000801@cheimes.de>

David wrote:
> Has anyone run into a similar problem (and solved it) ?

Yeah, here is my implementation as a perpetual timer based some cherrypy 
code and threading timer.

import threading

class PerpetualTimer(threading._Timer):
     """A subclass of threading._Timer whose run() method repeats.

     Based on cherrpy.process.plugins.PerpetualTimer
     """
     def __init__(self, interval, function, name=None, daemon=False, 
args=(), kwargs={}):
         super(PerpetualTimer, self).__init__(interval, function, args, 
kwargs)
         self.setName(name)
         self.setDaemon(daemon)

     def run(self):
         while True:
             self.finished.wait(self.interval)
             if self.finished.isSet():
                 return
             self.function(*self.args, **self.kwargs)

     def stop(self, timeout=None):
         self.cancel()
         self.join(timeout)

def callback(egg):
     egg.cook()

timer = PerpetualTimer(100, callback, name="EggTimer", args=(somegg,))
timer.start()

...

timer.stop()

Christian


From user at tld.invalid  Wed Aug 12 18:07:23 2009
From: user at tld.invalid (Bartosz Wroblewski)
Date: 12 Aug 2009 22:07:23 GMT
Subject: How to launch a function at regular time intervals ?
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:09:29 -0700, David wrote:
>
> Hi all, I'm trying to launch a function at regular time intervals but
> cannot find the way to do it.
>

For what it's worth, here's how I do it:

---------------8<---------------

#!/usr/bin/env python
from time import sleep

interval = 25 #seconds

while not sleep(interval):
    f(spam, eggs, knight)

---------------8<---------------

You might want to put the sleep inside an *obviously* infinite loop. Note 
that this works best (most accurately) for longer periods. If you need to
account for the time spent in the actual f() calls, plug in a time.time() 
call where appropriate.

-- 
| <")-, | ''The good-enough is the enemy of the excellent.'' - John Miles 
| (_==/ |-----------,-----------------------------------------------------
|  ='-  | Bartosz Wroblewski | bawr from holyhandgrenade.info or int8.org 


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Aug 12 18:19:18 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 23:19:18 +0100
Subject: Format Code Repeat Counts?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A833FE6.5030700@mrabarnett.plus.com>

jschwab wrote:
> Are repeat counts supported Python's str.format() in some fashion?
> 
> In Fortran my format strings can have repeat counts.
> 
> 
> write(*, fmt="3F8.3") [1, 2, 3]
>    1.000  2.000   3.000
> 
> 
> I don't think printf-style format codes, which is what'd I'd
> previously used in Python, allow for repeat counts.
> 
> As a more concrete example, say I have several sets of letters in a
> list of strings
>      letters = ["aeiou", "hnopty", "egs", "amsp"]
> and I wanted to build a regular expression string out of them like
>      re_str <==> "[aeiou][hnopty][egs][amsp]"
> Right now, the best I've got that doesn't require an explicit string
> like "[{1}][{2}][{3}][{4}]" is
>      re_str = "".join(map(lambda x: "[{0}]".format(x), letters))
> 
> Is there a better way?
> 
The shortest I can come up with is:

     "[" + "][".join(letters) + "]"



From clp2 at rebertia.com  Wed Aug 12 18:23:32 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 18:23:32 -0400
Subject: Format Code Repeat Counts?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908121523jc495a65y1957a503b4f10566@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 4:34 PM, jschwab wrote:

> As a more concrete example, say I have several sets of letters in a
> list of strings
> ? ? letters = ["aeiou", "hnopty", "egs", "amsp"]
> and I wanted to build a regular expression string out of them like
> ? ? re_str <==> "[aeiou][hnopty][egs][amsp]"
> Right now, the best I've got that doesn't require an explicit string
> like "[{1}][{2}][{3}][{4}]" is
> ? ? re_str = "".join(map(lambda x: "[{0}]".format(x), letters))
>
> Is there a better way?

Slightly better, by using a generator expression instead of map() and lambda:
re_str = "".join("[{0}]".format(x) for x in letters)

Though obviously MRAB's is shorter (and a good show of lateral thinking).

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Wed Aug 12 18:34:34 2009
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 15:34:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Plotting Quadratic Functions, pygame
References: 
Message-ID: <14363c28-482a-40fe-bbdf-e727fb68dce6@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

Before we get into fixing your code, let's talk about style. A lot of
bugs are solved when you fix the style, and the remaining bugs are
much easier to find and fix.

(Comments inline)

On Aug 12, 2:27?pm, Senad Ibraimoski -student-Mathematical Institute
Belgrade  wrote:
> Hello, I'm a new guy to this group, my professor recommend this group
> to me, because I was boring him with questions.I'm new to python, and
> I have problem plotting Quadratic Functions. Using module pygame.
> Here is the code:
>
> #!/usr/bin/env python

Vertical whitespace is very useful for separating different parts of
your code, just like you do when you write paragraphs.

> import pygame

vertical whitespeace.

> def main():

Throwing everything into one function is rarely a good idea. I'll
identify ways you can separate out the code below into functions. For
now, your code can share data between functions with global variables.
Down the road, you may want to encapsulate the shared data in objects.

> ? ? ? ? import sys
> ? ? ? ? import math
> ? ? ? ? from math import sqrt

Put all the import statements at the top, as much as you can.

> ? ? ? ? #Input equation coefficients
> ? ? ? ? screen=pygame.display.set_mode((400,400))
> ? ? ? ? pygame.display.set_caption( ' Ploting ' )
> ? ? ? ? screen.fill((255,255,255))
> ? ? ? ? pen=((0,0,255))
> ? ? ? ? dark=(0,0,0)
> ? ? ? ? ox=200
> ? ? ? ? oy=200

There are really two parts here: Getting the screen setup and drawing.
Both should be separated into two functions.

> ? ? ? ? a= int(raw_input('Input coefficient a ' ))
> ? ? ? ? b= int(raw_input('Input coefficient b ' ))
> ? ? ? ? c= int(raw_input('Input coefficient c ' ))

Another part deals with collecting user input.

Note that you shouldn't be collecting ints but floats.

(Ideally, you would collect real numbers, but representing that in a
computer is difficult.)

> ? ? ? ? pygame.draw.aaline(screen,((255,0,0)),((200,0)) ,((200,400)))
> ? ? ? ? pygame.draw.aaline(screen,((255,0,0)),((0,200)), ((400,200)))

This draws the coordinate axes. This belongs in another function.

> ? ? ? ? if a==0:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? if b==0:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print 'No solutions'
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? else:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? x= -c/b
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print x
> ? ? ? ? else:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? d=b*b-4*a*c
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? if d<0:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? num=complex(-b/(2*a),sqrt(-d)/(2*a))
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print num
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? else:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? x1=(-b+sqrt(d))/(2*a)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? x2=(-b-sqrt(d))/(2*a)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print 'x1= ' ,x1
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print 'x2= ' ,x2

The solver belongs in another function.

I would have the solver take a representation of the equation (simply
a tuple of (a, b, c)) and return a list of solutions.

If there are no solutions, then return an empty list.

> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? while 1:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? for event in pygame.event.get():
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? if event ==pygame.QUIT:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print ' Quitting'
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? pygame.quit()
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? sys.exit(1)
>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? x=-50;
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? while x<=50:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? y=(a*(x**2) + b*x + c) *(-1)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? screen.set_at(((x+ox),(y+oy)),dark)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? pygame.display.flip()
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? x=x+1;

The main loop belongs in another function.

The drawing bit belongs in another function.

>
> ? ? ? ? return 0
>
> if __name__ == '__main__': main()


>
> For now I'm plotting function only when Determinant >0. Or in other
> words, when equation has two solutions,
> x1,x2 e R... Now if you start my program you will see where problem
> is. It's with function, It so bad drawn.
> When I try to increment x in loop by 0.1 for every pass, I get
> problems because method set_at() Which sets pixel requires integer...
>

Your drawing function that you write should take a scaling factor in
addition to the equation it is trying to draw.

You'll have to round the floats to the nearest integer. This is pretty
easy to do:

 number_as_int = int(number_as_float + 0.5)

Rather than step between arbitrary numbers, step through every point
on the graph. For this equation, y = a x^2 + b x + c, right? So walk
from left-to-right over all visible values of x (0 to 400, or rather
-200 to 200) and find y.



> I don't have in this year Computer Graphics on my faculty. So this are
> my first steps in this area of CS.
>

This is a very good first step. You have a bright future in
programming and perhaps in computer graphics.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Aug 12 18:38:44 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 23:38:44 +0100
Subject: Format Code Repeat Counts?
In-Reply-To: <50697b2c0908121523jc495a65y1957a503b4f10566@mail.gmail.com>
References: 
	<50697b2c0908121523jc495a65y1957a503b4f10566@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A834474.9000304@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Chris Rebert wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 4:34 PM, jschwab wrote:
> 
>> As a more concrete example, say I have several sets of letters in a
>> list of strings
>>     letters = ["aeiou", "hnopty", "egs", "amsp"]
>> and I wanted to build a regular expression string out of them like
>>     re_str <==> "[aeiou][hnopty][egs][amsp]"
>> Right now, the best I've got that doesn't require an explicit string
>> like "[{1}][{2}][{3}][{4}]" is
>>     re_str = "".join(map(lambda x: "[{0}]".format(x), letters))
>>
>> Is there a better way?
> 
> Slightly better, by using a generator expression instead of map() and lambda:
> re_str = "".join("[{0}]".format(x) for x in letters)
> 
> Though obviously MRAB's is shorter (and a good show of lateral thinking).
> 
Python 3.1 supports auto-numbered placeholders "[{}]", so:

     re_str = ("[{}]" * len(letters)).format(*letters)


From emile at fenx.com  Wed Aug 12 18:45:00 2009
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 15:45:00 -0700
Subject: Format Code Repeat Counts?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 8/12/2009 1:34 PM jschwab said...
> Are repeat counts supported Python's str.format() in some fashion?
> 
> In Fortran my format strings can have repeat counts.
> 
> 
> write(*, fmt="3F8.3") [1, 2, 3]
>    1.000  2.000   3.000
> 
> 
> I don't think printf-style format codes, which is what'd I'd
> previously used in Python, allow for repeat counts.
> 
> As a more concrete example, say I have several sets of letters in a
> list of strings
>      letters = ["aeiou", "hnopty", "egs", "amsp"]
> and I wanted to build a regular expression string out of them like
>      re_str <==> "[aeiou][hnopty][egs][amsp]"
> Right now, the best I've got that doesn't require an explicit string
> like "[{1}][{2}][{3}][{4}]" is
>      re_str = "".join(map(lambda x: "[{0}]".format(x), letters))
> 
> Is there a better way?
> 

I don't know.  I often end up at something like:

"[%s]"*len(letters) % tuple(letters)

Emile



From gb345 at invalid.com  Wed Aug 12 18:57:33 2009
From: gb345 at invalid.com (gb345)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 22:57:33 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need feedback on ORF-extracting code
Message-ID: 



Hi everyone.  I'm relatively new to Python, and could use your
feedback on the code below.

First some nomenclature.  A "nucleotide" is one of A, C, G, T, or
U.  (In practice, a sequence of such nucleotides never contains
both T and U, but this fact is not important in what follows.)  A
"codon" is a sequence of 3 of these.  A "stop codon" is any one of
UAA, UAG, UGA, TAA, TAG, or TGA.  Two codons are said to be "in
frame" in a containing sequence of nucleotides if their positions
differ by a multiple of 3.  An "open reading frame," or ORF, is
defined as a maximal subsequence of nucleotides whose length is a
multiple of 3, begins with either AUG or ATG, terminates right
before a stop codon in the original sequence, and contains no stop
codons that are in frame with the initial codon (AUG or ATG).

The fact that ORFs have lengths that are multiples of 3 means that
there are three possible "registers" for ORFs (depending the modulo
3 of their starting positions), and that ORFs in different registers
can overlap.  I'll refer to these registers as 0, 1, and 2, because
they contain ORFs that are in frame with the codons at positions
0, 1, and 2 of the original sequence, respectively.

In the code below, routine extract_orfs takes as input a string,
assumed to be a sequence of nucleotides, and returns a tuple of
tuples, describing ORFs.  These ORFs can overlap.

The helper routine _xo takes as input a string (a sequence of
nucleotides), and an offset, and returns a tuple of tuples, again
representing ORFs, but this time all in the same register, since
they are all in frame with the position passed as the second argument
to the function.

I would appreciate your comments on this code.  I feel that it is
not as clear as it could be, but I don't know how to make it any
clearer.

(NOTE: I realize that, in all likelihood, publicly available Python
code already exists for this.  At the moment I'm more interested
in improving my Python skills.)


Many thanks in advance!

Gabe



# BEGINNING OF CODE
import sys
import re

_start = r'A[TU]G'
_stop = r'(?:[TU]A[AG]|[TU]GA)'
_nonstop = r'(?:[CAG][TUCAG]{2}|[TU](?:[TUC][TUCAG]|[AG][TUC])|[TU]GG)'
_codon = r'(?:[TUCAG]{3})'
_orf_re = re.compile('(' + _codon + r'*?)(A[TU]G' +
                     _nonstop + '*)(' + _stop + ')', flags=re.I)
_lead_re = re.compile(r'[TUCAG]*?A[TU]G', flags=re.I)

def _xo(seq, pos):
    """
    Helper routine that finds all the non-overlapping in-frame orfs
    starting from a specific position in the input sequence.

    input: a string of letters in the set 'tucagTUCAG', and a starting
           position;
    output: a tuple of tuples; each internal tuple consists of a
            starting position, an orf, and the stop codon that
            terminates it.
    """
    
    ret = []
    while True:
        m = _orf_re.match(seq, pos)
        if not m:
            break
        orf = m.group(2)
        stop = m.group(3)
        assert len(orf) % 3 == 0
        ret.append((m.start() + len(m.group(1)), orf, stop))
        pos = m.end()
    return ret

def extract_orfs(seq):
    """
    Extracts all (possibly overlapping) maximal open reading frames,
    defined as sequences beginning with AUG (or ATG), ending with an
    in-frame stop codon, and containing no in-frame stop codons
    in-between.

    input: a string of letters in the set 'tucagTUCAG';
    output: a tuple of tuples; each internal tuple consists of a
            starting position, an orf, and the stop codon that
            terminates it.
    """

    m = _lead_re.match(seq)
    if not m:
        return ()
    pos = m.start()
    ret = []

    for i in range(min(3, len(seq))):
        ret.extend(_xo(seq, pos + i))
    ret.sort()
    return tuple(ret)

# END OF CODE


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Wed Aug 12 19:19:20 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 12 Aug 2009 23:19:20 GMT
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<3611ca55-79a6-4336-9041-07d0893789f7@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
	<0447e8a2-508d-45b2-8d15-da0cc2a56b5f@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	
	<494d80f1-0b47-468c-bdd9-7a087f6d915c@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	
	<7877b03a-09da-4836-804c-502b6f78003c@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <02933e60$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:21:34 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:

> On Aug 12, 5:32 am, Steven D'Aprano
>  wrote:
> 
>> That problem basically boils down to a deep-seated philosophical
>> disagreement over which philosophy a language should follow in regard
>> to backslash escapes:
>>
>> "Anything not explicitly permitted is forbidden"
>>
>> versus
>>
>> "Anything not explicitly forbidden is permitted"
> 
> No, it doesn't. It boils down to whether a language should:
> 
> (1) Try it's best to detect errors as early as possible, especially when
> the cost of doing so is low.

You are making an unjustified assumption: \y is not an error. It is only 
an error if you think that anything not explicitly permitted is forbidden.

While I'm amused that you've made my own point for me, I'm less amused 
that you seem to be totally incapable of seeing past your parochial 
language assumptions, even when those assumptions are explicitly pointed 
out to you. Am I wasting my time engaging you in discussion? 

There's a lot more I could say, but time is short, so let me just 
summarise:

I disagree with nearly everything you say in this post. I think that a 
few points you make have some validity, but the vast majority are based 
on a superficial and confused understanding of language design 
principles. (I won't justify that claim now, perhaps later, time 
permitting.) Nevertheless, I think that your ultimate wish -- for \y etc 
to be considered an error -- is a reasonable design choice, given your 
assumptions. But it's not the only reasonable design choice, and Bash has 
made a different choice, and Python has made yet a third reasonable 
choice, and Pascal made yet a fourth reasonable choice.

These are all reasonable choices, all have some good points and some bad 
points, but ultimately the differences between them are mostly arbitrary 
personal preference, like the colour of a car. Disagreements over 
preferences I can live with. One party insisting that red is the only 
logical colour for a car, and that anybody who prefers white or black or 
blue is illogical, is unacceptable.



-- 
Steven


From nobody at nowhere.com  Wed Aug 12 19:23:10 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 00:23:10 +0100
Subject: How to page output in >>> ?
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 21:41:38 +0000, kj wrote:

> How does one tell the python interactive interpreter to run the
> next output to stdout through the default pager?  Basically, I'm
> looking for Python's equivalent of Perl's debugger's "|" prefix,
> as in
> 
>   DB<1> |print $long_output

Something like:

	sys.stdout.flush()
	p = subprocess.Popen([os.environ['PAGER']], stdin = subprocess.PIPE)
	sys.stdout = p.stdin

	...

	sys.stdout.flush()
	sys.stdout = sys.__stdout__
	p.stdin.close()
	p.wait()

but with error and exception handling.

But personally, I'd write the data to the child process explicitly if
that's possible.



From mdekauwe at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 19:29:38 2009
From: mdekauwe at gmail.com (Martin)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 16:29:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: matching patterns after regex?
References: <61bef795-f146-4bdd-b5b3-a212e6d9197c@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<2387d409-110a-451d-b301-6d7fe4abc793@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> 
	 
	<0292a4a9$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<18d5d342-b678-4101-a284-24d6176ac856@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	 
	<85652297-16e7-489f-9e36-5092941df002@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 12, 10:29?pm, Mark Lawrence  wrote:
> Bernard wrote:
> > On 12 ao?t, 12:43, Martin  wrote:
> >> On Aug 12, 1:42 pm, Martin  wrote:
>
> >>> On Aug 12, 1:23 pm, Steven D'Aprano  >>> cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> >>>> On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 05:12:22 -0700, Martin wrote:
> >>>>> I tried
> >>>>> re.findall((\w+COORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.\w-]+),s)
> >>>> You need to put quotes around strings.
> >>>> In this case, because you're using regular expressions, you should use a
> >>>> raw string:
> >>>> re.findall(r"(\w+COORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.\w-]+)",s)
> >>>> will probably work.
> >>>> --
> >>>> Steven
> >>> Thanks I see.
> >>> so I tried it and if I use it as it is, it matches the first instance:
> >>> I
> >>> n [594]: re.findall(r"(\w+COORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.\w-]+)",s)
> >>> Out[594]: [('NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE', '1')]
> >>> So I adjusted the first part of the regex, on the basis I could sub
> >>> NORTH for SOUTH etc.
> >>> In [595]: re.findall(r"(NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE).*\s+VALUE\s+=\s([\d\.
> >>> \w-]+)",s)
> >>> Out[595]: [('NORTHBOUNDINGCOORDINATE', '1')]
> >>> But in both cases it doesn't return the decimal value rather the value
> >>> that comes after NUM_VAL = , rather than VALUE = ?
> >> I think I kind of got that to work...but I am clearly not quite
> >> understanding how it works as I tried to use it again to match
> >> something else.
>
> >> In this case I want to print the values 0.000000 and 2223901.039333
> >> from a string like this...
>
> >> YDim=1200\n\t\tUpperLeftPointMtrs=(0.000000,2223901.039333)\n\t\t
>
> >> I tried which I though was matching the statement and printing the
> >> decimal number after the equals sign??
>
> >> re.findall(r"(\w+UpperLeftPointMtrs)*=\s([\d\.\w-]+)", s)
>
> >> where s is the string
>
> >> Many thanks for the help
>
> > You have to do it with 2 matches in the same regex:
>
> > regex = r"UpperLeftPointMtrs=\(([\d\.]+),([\d\.]+)"
>
> > The first match ?is before the , and the second one is after the , :)
>
> > You should probably learn how to play with regexes.
> > I personnaly use a visual tool called RX Toolkit[1] that comes with
> > Komodo IDE.
>
> > [1]http://docs.activestate.com/komodo/4.4/regex.html
>
> Haven't tried it myself but how about this?http://re-try.appspot.com/
>
> --
> Kindest regards.
>
> Mark Lawrence.

Thanks Mark and Bernard. I have managed to get it working and I
appreciate the help with understanding the syntax. The web links are
also very useful, I'll give them a go.

Martin


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Aug 12 19:40:03 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 00:40:03 +0100
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
In-Reply-To: <02933e60$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>			<3611ca55-79a6-4336-9041-07d0893789f7@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>		<0447e8a2-508d-45b2-8d15-da0cc2a56b5f@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>		<494d80f1-0b47-468c-bdd9-7a087f6d915c@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>		<7877b03a-09da-4836-804c-502b6f78003c@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<02933e60$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4A8352D3.3070003@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:21:34 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:
> 
>> On Aug 12, 5:32 am, Steven D'Aprano
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> That problem basically boils down to a deep-seated philosophical
>>> disagreement over which philosophy a language should follow in regard
>>> to backslash escapes:
>>>
>>> "Anything not explicitly permitted is forbidden"
>>>
>>> versus
>>>
>>> "Anything not explicitly forbidden is permitted"
>> No, it doesn't. It boils down to whether a language should:
>>
>> (1) Try it's best to detect errors as early as possible, especially when
>> the cost of doing so is low.
> 
> You are making an unjustified assumption: \y is not an error. It is only 
> an error if you think that anything not explicitly permitted is forbidden.
> 
> While I'm amused that you've made my own point for me, I'm less amused 
> that you seem to be totally incapable of seeing past your parochial 
> language assumptions, even when those assumptions are explicitly pointed 
> out to you. Am I wasting my time engaging you in discussion? 
> 
> There's a lot more I could say, but time is short, so let me just 
> summarise:
> 
> I disagree with nearly everything you say in this post. I think that a 
> few points you make have some validity, but the vast majority are based 
> on a superficial and confused understanding of language design 
> principles. (I won't justify that claim now, perhaps later, time 
> permitting.) Nevertheless, I think that your ultimate wish -- for \y etc 
> to be considered an error -- is a reasonable design choice, given your 
> assumptions. But it's not the only reasonable design choice, and Bash has 
> made a different choice, and Python has made yet a third reasonable 
> choice, and Pascal made yet a fourth reasonable choice.
> 
IHMO, it would've been simpler in the long run to say that backslash
followed by one of [0-9A-Za-z] is an escape sequence, backslash followed
by newline is ignored, and backslash followed by anything else is that
something. That way there would be a way to introduce additional escape
sequences without breaking existing code.


From davea at ieee.org  Wed Aug 12 20:30:16 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 20:30:16 -0400
Subject: How to launch a function at regular time intervals ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A835E98.2070507@ieee.org>

David wrote:
> Hi all, I'm trying to launch a function at regular time intervals but
> cannot find the way to do it. Here is the code I wrote (time_interval
> is a user defined variable in seconds):
>
> while(1)
>   timestamp=datetime.now()
>  
> timestamp_seconds=timestamp.hour*3600+timestamp.minute*60+timestamp.second
>   if timestamp_seconds % time_interval == 0: ****Call Function****
>
> This does not work because during the second at which the condition
> holds true, there is time to call the function several times. Since I
> want to have this function called only once every x seconds, I tried
> to add the following condition:
>
> if timestamp_seconds % time_interval ==0 & timestamp.microsecond == 0
>
> But it seems this second condition hardly ever happens (i.e. the
> timestamp variable is not updated every microsecond, therefore it can
> be 9998 then jump directly to 0003 for instance).
>
> Has anyone run into a similar problem (and solved it) ?
>
> Thanks for your help
>
>   
I'm assuming you want to call it every time_interval seconds, on 
average, with a little jitter allowed on each call, but keeping correct 
long term.  In other words, if one call is a little late, you want the 
next one to still happen as close to on-time as possible.

The general outline is something like (untested):

times_called = 0           #number of times function has been called
start_time = now
while True:
     elapsed = now - start_time
     int_elapsed = int(elapsed/time_interval)
     for times_called in range(times_called, int_elapsed):
                    call_the_function()
     sleep(time_interval/10)           #this might give us 10% jitter, 
which is usually fine

DaveA


From drobinow at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 20:53:43 2009
From: drobinow at gmail.com (David Robinow)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 20:53:43 -0400
Subject: httplib incredibly slow :-(
In-Reply-To: <4A82EFDC.70502@simplistix.co.uk>
References: <4A81D3CB.7080209@simplistix.co.uk>
	
	<4A82EFDC.70502@simplistix.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4eb0089f0908121753o5ecf141dj304b21c3df0d3d6b@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Chris Withers wrote:
> David Stanek wrote:
>> Also on the same box where you run this script
>> can you test with curl or wget?
> It's a Windows box, so no :-(

Why not?

http://users.ugent.be/~bpuype/wget/
http://curl.haxx.se/download.html


From arphaksad at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 21:15:42 2009
From: arphaksad at gmail.com (naaman)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 18:15:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: fileinput
References: 
	
Message-ID: <521d7322-b8ee-490e-8cde-7e854e8afb7a@r34g2000vba.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 12, 1:35?pm, Dave Angel  wrote:
> naaman wrote:
> > I'm writing my first Python script and
> > I want to use fileinput to open a file in r+ mode.
> > Tried fileinput.input(sys.argv[1:],"r+") but that didn't work.
> > ANy ideas?
>
> > Need to find and overwrite a line in a file several times.
> > I can do it using open and seek() etc. but was wondering if I can use
> > fileinput.
>
> > thanks;
>
> I haven't used it, but check out the 'inplace' keyword parameter.
>
> DaveA

I've only Python for a week so I'm not sure what inplace does


From rylesny at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 21:25:40 2009
From: rylesny at gmail.com (ryles)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 18:25:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: run all scripts in sub-directory as subroutines?
References: 
Message-ID: <0639e183-5c38-42b6-8411-3fd53e5ec01d@r34g2000vba.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 11, 5:12?pm, guthrie  wrote:
> This works fine, but in the sub-modules the sys.path appropriately
> returns the same as from the parent, I want them to know their own
> file names. How?? I can pass it to them, but wondered if there is a
> more self-sufficient way for a module to know from where it was
> invoked.

Instead of sys.path, you may be interested in the __file__ attribute
will give you a module's filename:

http://docs.python.org/reference/simple_stmts.html#index-1031

You could also be more explicit in matching *.py files in your
subdirectory by using glob:

http://docs.python.org/library/glob.html


From cousinstanley at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 22:21:25 2009
From: cousinstanley at gmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 02:21:25 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	
	<7f7c3e90-6026-411f-8b4a-829798819128@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
	<3fdfb992-058b-4017-b1b3-db3a9542b62e@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 



> FWIW, I support the idea the regular docs incorporating links 
> to freely editable wiki pages.  That will at least make it 
> easier for people to make changes or add notes.
>
> That being said, I would like to add a few thoughts about the
> current process.   ISTM that important corrections (when the
> docs are clearly in error) tend to get made right away.  What
> is more interesting are the doc requests that get rejected
> and why:
> ....
> In short, most doc requests that get rejected are requests 
> that didn't actually improve the documentation.
> .... 

Raymond ....

  Thanks for your very eloquent and cohernt response
  that in my opinion helps to explain many of the 
  problems, either real or perceived, with the Python
  documentation ....


-- 
Stanley C. Kitching
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona



From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Wed Aug 12 22:24:19 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 19:24:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: csv.DictWriter.write_header()
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 13, 6:45?am, Alan G Isaac  wrote:
> Given a csv.DictWriter instance `dw`
> I think it would be nice to be able to
> say dw.write_header()
> instead of
> dw.writer.writerow(dw.fieldnames)
>
> Good idea?

Yes, it's a brilliant idea. All you have to do is insert the following
lines in your code after importing csv:

csv.DictWriter.write_header = (
    lambda dw: dw.writer.writerow(dw.fieldnames)
    )


From saptarshi.guha at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 22:32:26 2009
From: saptarshi.guha at gmail.com (sapsi)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 19:32:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Write binary data to standard error?
Message-ID: <9514cb7a-2962-484a-9669-c39533de138b@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

Hello,
This is probably a basic question, but how does one write binary data
to standard error e.g int as network order (4 bytes)?

Much thanks
Saptarshi


From saptarshi.guha at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 22:44:38 2009
From: saptarshi.guha at gmail.com (Saptarshi)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 19:44:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Write binary data to standard error?
References: <9514cb7a-2962-484a-9669-c39533de138b@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <765589c3-98da-45b9-ab35-475ca5c76250@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 12, 10:32?pm, sapsi  wrote:
> Hello,
> This is probably a basic question, but how does one write binary data
> to standard error e.g int as network order (4 bytes)?
>
> Much thanks
> Saptarshi

Solved:
import sys
import os
from struct import *

d=os.fdopen(sys.stderr.fileno(),"wb")
d.write("\x00")
d.write(pack(">i",5))


From alan.isaac at gmail.com  Wed Aug 12 23:15:51 2009
From: alan.isaac at gmail.com (Alan G Isaac)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 03:15:51 GMT
Subject: csv.DictWriter.write_header()
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

> On Aug 13, 6:45 am, Alan G Isaac  wrote:
>> Given a csv.DictWriter instance `dw`
>> I think it would be nice to be able to
>> say dw.write_header()
>> instead of
>> dw.writer.writerow(dw.fieldnames)
>>
>> Good idea?


On 8/12/2009 10:24 PM John Machin apparently wrote:
> Yes, it's a brilliant idea. All you have to do is insert the following
> lines in your code after importing csv:
> 
> csv.DictWriter.write_header = (
>     lambda dw: dw.writer.writerow(dw.fieldnames)
>     )


I do not understand the reason for your silly, sarcastic response.
I already showed you how to achieve the result, so obviously
I am not just asking for my own personal gain.

I take it you do not realize that many users do not see
a simple way to get this often needed functionality.
(For example, see the gymnatics suggested by Shai Vaingast
in his otherwise excellent and useful book.) And indeed,
there is no reason to expect them to.

So my question was, would this improve the class from
a usability perspective?  Do you have a useful response?

Alan Isaac


From rurpy at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 12 23:23:27 2009
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 20:23:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <65053f02-0e64-4070-90c8-e04394be90ad@d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On 08/12/2009 01:58 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:50:51 -0700, rurpy wrote:
>
>>>> The issue tracker is fine for many things, but the process it provides
>>>> is equivalent to peep-hole optimization.  How does one submit a
>>>> tracker issue for something like the overall organization of the docs
>>>> (for example, the mis-placement of things like data- types in the
>>>> library manual rather than the language manual)?
>>> The same way you would submit a tracker issue for anything.
>>>
>>> "Documentation bug: Data types are misplaced in the library manual
>>> instead of the language manual.
>>>
>>> Suggested alternative: move page docs.python.org/xyz.html to abc.html"
>> But that's the problem.  Such a reorg is not a simple matter of moving a
>> file from here to there.  It will require a lot moving about of sections
>> and a lot of word-smithing to glue them back together again in a
>> coherent way.
>
> That's no different from *any* major refactoring. The exact same problem
> exists for code as well as documentation. It's a solved problem for code,
> and it's a solved problem for documentation.

Huh?  I don't buy this at all.  Code refactoring doesn't change
the semantics of the program at all -- it simplifies the code
that implements behavior without changing behavior.  How does
this apply to revising documentation?  It may be true that some
of the same techniques applicable to maintaining code are
applicable to documentation but I need a lot more than your
assertion to believe they are as equivalent as you seem to be
claiming.

> In some order:
>
> Consensus that there is a problem that needs solving;
> Volunteer(s) to do the work;
> Somebody to take responsibility to check the changes in.

That's not refactoring as I understand it -- that is making a
large change.  I don't see that that addresses the problem of
getting a large patch approved or the other issues I mentioned.

> Sometimes, in the face of apathy or disagreement (which may very well be
> justified), you have to at least partly solve the problem *before* people
> will agree that it needed to be solved. Welcome to the real world.
>
>> A tracker issue, even one that was fairly specific about how things
>> should be reorganized but which did not provide all the needed changes
>> (a large patch) would almost certainly be ignored or rejected.
>
> Yes it would. Most patches are ignored, because the dev team are
> overworked, and if they don't see the need for a patch, they won't
> approve it.

I'm confused.  If they weren't overworked, then they would
approve patches they didn't see a need for?  Or are you
saying because they are overworked they fail to approve patches
that should be approved?  I am not sure how either supports
the argument that the tracker is the best method of improving
the docs.

>> But
>> providing a large patch raises two questions.  How likely is it to be be
>> accepted? (Something anyone would want to know before investing the
>> time.) And how to actually do the work needed to generate it (it could
>> be a very large amount of work for an individual and I don't think it
>> can be broken down into small independent issues.) How is one to test
>> the waters as to acceptability, or solicit help, if one simply submits a
>> tracker issue?
>
> No, submitting a tracker issue is a necessary but not sufficient step.
> Without a tracker issue, you're very unlikely to have people agree to
> replace the existing docs with your docs, although a PEP would probably
> do it. (A PEP is significantly more effort than raising a tracker issue.)

Has there ever been a PEP for a doc change?  Are you making
a serious suggestion?

> You also have to get attention from those with check-in privileges. If
> they approve your patches, you're done. If they don't approve them, or
> fail to respond, you can try convincing them, or taking it to the Python-
> Dev list and request somebody review your patches.
>
> If you have no patches, perhaps because you're unwilling to invest the
> effort without a guarantee that it will be treated seriously, then you
> need to get some sort of consensus among the relevant people that the
> problem is worth solving.

You are again describing the current process, not the issue
of whether the current process is the optimal one or not.

And while I would never expect a guarantee that a particular
submission would be accepted, I think I would need, if not a
guarantee, at least a high expectation that a submission would
be treated seriously before I invested a large amount of work
in it.

> Guess what? Sometimes others will disagree with you. What you see as the
> Worst. Docs. EVAR. may be seen as perfectly adequate, even excellent, by
> others. If this is the case, remember, Python isn't your product, you
> don't have veto over what goes into it. Feel free to publish your
> alternatives. Write a book. Go home and cry into your beer over it.
> Whatever. Sometimes you win, and sometimes you don't.

Right, this is obvious.  But the other side of that coin
is that if people who see problems with the docs perceive
that those who control access to the docs have no interest in
changing them, then the first group will likely post their
complaints on this newsgroup.  If you don't like that then you
have the same choices you listed above.  Of course if the docs
really are that good, there will relatively few complaints and
the vast majority of readers will recognize the few complaints
as invalid and ignore them, so if you are right that the docs
are good enough, there should be no problem.

> This is the same process whether dealing with code or documentation.
>
>>> - if people are keen on a Python wiki, then by all means publish one,
>>> just don't expect the Python dev team to build and manage it for you;
>> As luminous a Pythoneer as Fredrik Lundh set up a documentation wiki to
>> collect user contributions but it has faded away.  If he couldn't pull
>> it off then I'd say most other attempts without the backing of
>> python.org are almost certainly doomed to failure.
>
> Perhaps that's a good indication that a Python wiki *doesn't* fulfill a
> need in the community, and that despite what a few squeaky wheels think,
> the docs *are* doing a good job?

That fails to explain the repeated criticisms of the docs here
and in blogs.  Of course this argument is not likely to convince
you since there is no reliable quantitative support for the
claim that there are more complaints about the docs than other
aspects of Python -- it relies on each individual's powers of
observation.  But you also have to explain away very specific
criticisms of the docs such as Xah Lee's as invalid or
exceptions.

>> As long as every "the docs
>> sux" complaint is met here with the standard responses that I've
>> mentioned,
>
> But they aren't met with such a so-called "standard response".

I just looked through the first 70 or so messages in this thread
and in this case I have agree with you, most of the responses were
not what I called "standard responses".  There was one guy, a
Steven D'Aprano early on that trotted out the, "it's free software,
fix it if you don't like it" line, and the troll epithet was used
a time or two, but the vast majority were in fact reasonable and
thoughtful responses.  I will try to find some examples from
other past threads.

>> rather than, "yes, they do have some problems, what do you
>> think we should do about them?",
>
> We know that there are problems. We've said repeatedly that corrections
> and patches are welcome. We've repeatedly told you how to communicate
> your answer to the question of what should be done. None of this is good
> enough for you. I don't know what else you expect.

You have been told repeatedly why your insistence that the
tracker must be the only channel, is wrong.  I don't understand
why you can't understand that.

(Generally only those in authority, bosses, parents, police,
and the like, "tell" others what a situation is and have a
right to demand that the subject accept it without question.
I think you could find a more respectful and less authoritarian
way of phrasing what you said above since you are not in
a position of authority over me.)

And who exactly is this "we" that you are a member of?

>>> If you won't put in the effort, and you won't put in the money, then it
>>> won't happen. Moaning that other people aren't putting in the money to
>>> hire team of professional writers isn't productive, and moaning that
>>> other people aren't putting in the effort to improve the docs isn't
>>> either.
>> Eh?  I have a computer filled with software that I put no money or
>> effort into, yet there it is.
>
> Ah yes, I'm sorry, I missed one other alternative: sit around and wait
> for somebody else to put in the money and/or effort.
>
>> That some of us choose to
>> invest it somewhere other than Python does not deprive of of our right
>> to point out problems in Python when we note them.
>
> Of course not. But it does mean that you won't be taken seriously, and
> you have no right to be taken seriously.

On usenet no one has a right to anything.  You can take my
posts however you wish.  I've tried to make reasonable arguments
to support my view (with the understanding that these are usenet
posts, not a doctoral thesis).  But you (and the unnamed "we"
above) seem to feel that public complaints or discussion about
better alternatives to the current doc improvement process are
somehow out-of-bounds.  I'm sorry, I disagree.


From http  Thu Aug 13 00:11:12 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 12 Aug 2009 21:11:12 -0700
Subject: Scraping Wikipedia with Python
References: 
	<4a81b6f0$0$1590$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	
	<6YidncRAiJ6SIxzXRVn_vwA@giganews.com>
	
	<7xd472hz2x.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
Message-ID: <7xtz0c8ian.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Dotan Cohen  writes:
> > maybe you want dbpedia.
> I did not know about this. Thanks!

You might also like freebase/metaweb.


From walkraft at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 00:15:02 2009
From: walkraft at gmail.com (casebash)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 21:15:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Nice copy in interactive terminal
Message-ID: 

Hello fellow Python Users,

I've been wondering for a while if there exists an interactive
terminal which has nice copy feature (ie. I can copy code without
getting the >>> in front of every line).

Thanks,

Chris

PS. apologies if I am posting this in the wrong group. I am unsure of
the exact scope of this group.


From frank at chagford.com  Thu Aug 13 00:20:05 2009
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 06:20:05 +0200
Subject: How to launch a function at regular time intervals ?
References: 
Message-ID: 


On Aug 12, 11:09 pm, David  wrote:
> Hi all, I'm trying to launch a function at regular time intervals but
> cannot find the way to do it.

I assume you want your main program to continue running, while launching the 
function to run in the background.

If you need this as a general capability, Christian's approach is probably 
the way to go.

In my case I had one specific requirement, and found it easier to write a 
dedicated solution, as follows -

import threading

class MyFunction(threading.Thread):
    """Perform function every 30 seconds in separate thread"""

    def __init__(self):
        threading.Thread.__init__(self)
        self.event = threading.Event()

    def run(self):
        while not self.event.is_set():
            # either call your function here,
            # or put the body of the function here
            self.event.wait(30)  # wait for 30 seconds

    def stop(self):
        self.event.set()

At the start of the main program, I have the following -
    func = MyFunction()
    func.start()

When closing the main program, I have -
    func.stop()
    func.join()

It is trivial to modify this to pass the interval, plus any other parameters 
required, as arguments.

HTH

Frank Millman




From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Thu Aug 13 00:39:40 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 01:39:40 -0300
Subject: Changing Remote Registry
References: <5caea3690908070652v2ccb3ac8s4336266afe71dcb5@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A7C6D96.3000201@timgolden.me.uk>
	<5caea3690908100547l65394e65le111d8f3dda9e903@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

En Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:47:19 -0300, Kevin Holleran   
escribi?:
> On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 2:08 PM, Tim Golden  wrote:
>> Kevin Holleran wrote:
>>
>>> hKey = _winreg.OpenKey (keyPath, path, 0, _winreg.KEY_SET_VALUE)
>>> value,type = _winreg.QueryValueEx(hKey, item)
>>> if (value == wrongValue):
>>>       _winreg.SetValue(hKey,'',_winreg.REG_SZ,correctValue)
>>>
>>>
>>> When I do this I receive the error:
>>>
>>> _winreg.SetValue WindowsError: [Error 5] Access Denied
>>>
> I guess my question is will Windows let me change the registry remotely?
> The error is a Windows permission error on the KEY_SET_VALUE.  I am  
> running
> this as a domain admin on a machine on the domain.  Does the connection
> inherit the credentials I am running it under or will I need to pass  
> those
> in?  Or does Windows simply not let me change the registry?

Try doing the same interactively with regedt32.exe (logged as the same  
user). You can check your actual permissions under the Edit menu.
Also, try using KEY_WRITE instead of KEY_SET_VALUE.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From bouncyinc at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 00:41:47 2009
From: bouncyinc at gmail.com (John Haggerty)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 22:41:47 -0600
Subject: getting a "simple" program to work
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<50697b2c0908112146q6e12650dt914518166b4fae72@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Just checking to see if this is more adequate to what you would have wanted
to see I didn't get any feedback so I wasn't quite sure of this at the
present time.

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 11:02 PM, John Haggerty  wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 10:46 PM, Chris Rebert  wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 8:42 PM, John Haggerty wrote:
>> > ok so I know this is one of those "weird" requests but here me out.
>> > So far I have an issue with a package for python called "libgmail" which
>> is
>> > basically a gmail interface for python to send messages remoetly.
>> > Works ok except that the 'sendMessage' routine is bad.
>>
>> How is it "bad" precisely? Be specific (e.g. error message(s),
>> description of observed incorrect behavior).
>>
>
> In regards to bad would be failing to transmit claiming that the submittal
> is wrong for the transmit string.
>
> (where username is my gmail username and "password" is my gmail password to
> the test account, 6666666969 is the mobile number in question '00' is my
> "carrier id" from the ogss code example which is just an array location from
> a preformatted part of the string [probably from wikipedia on mobile carrier
> email addresses to cell phones], I actually got desperate and commented out
> the first attempt to transmit which I located in the code as just the
> "instructions" the code fails on re-transmission, I later on looked at the
> file and located that it was a zero byte file of no content. The program
> itself looks for a command from the user's cell phone directly from mms sent
> to the target gmail account prefaced by "Ogss" and anything else is treated
> as a command but since the command failed on the first transmit I don't
> think it's the command per se).
>
> owner at bouncyinc:~/Desktop/OGSS$ python ogss.py username password
> 6666666969 00
> Starting ogss
> Logfile at:/home/owner/ogss.log
> Opening log file for reading
> Parsing user input
> Connecting to Gmail
> Logging into Gmail
> Opening log file for writing
> Listening for commands
> Processing Command
> ls: unrecognized option `---------------------------------------------'
> Try `ls --help' for more information.
> Seding back results
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "ogss.py", line 127, in 
>     main(sys.argv)
>   File "ogss.py", line 110, in main
>     account.sendMessage(tosend)
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/libgmail.py", line 615, in
> sendMessage
>     raise GmailSendError, resultInfo[SM_MSG]
> libgmail.GmailSendError: Please try again.
>
> I traced the result to the sendMessage routine and noted that anytime it
> tries to send anything it fails this also fails with the standard "docs"
> package for libgmail 0.30 docs from the maintainer's site.
>
> Now the part where it *does* fail is where it has an issue with looking at
> the trailing info but then it would have logged the info to the file and
> emailed me back junk (which it didn't)
>
> I assume this could be done on any system just replace 'ls' with 'dir' or
> the equivalent.
>
>
>>
>> > This is included in the above attachment
>> > it's used in a program called "ogss" which is an sms interface to gmail
>> to
>> > basically read gmail and then have a command done on a remote machine
>> and
>> > then spat out on the local machine to a log file that's opened and then
>> > emailed back
>> > problem is that the sending back routine fails.
>>
>> Which routine is that exactly? Please also specify exactly how it is
>> failing (e.g. error message(s), description of observed incorrect
>> behavior).
>>
>> I apologize if these questions are answered in comments in the
>> attachments, but to be honest, the fact that you didn't (or couldn't)
>> put the specific problematic sections of code (and/or error messages)
>> inline in your message makes it less likely that people (such as
>> myself) will try to help you due to the volume of code you're making
>> people wade through (i.e. people tend not to read large code dumps,
>> /especially/ in attachments).
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Chris
>> --
>> http://blog.rebertia.com
>>
> That's ok I understand I hope that helps at least in part.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

From clp2 at rebertia.com  Thu Aug 13 00:42:15 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 00:42:15 -0400
Subject: Nice copy in interactive terminal
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908122142r34f9c386hf8292f59ffa9edf2@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 12:15 AM, casebash wrote:
> Hello fellow Python Users,
>
> I've been wondering for a while if there exists an interactive
> terminal which has nice copy feature (ie. I can copy code without
> getting the >>> in front of every line).

Not quite answering your exact question, but:
- You can control the text of the prompt by modifying sys.ps1
- IPython (http://ipython.scipy.org/moin/) has powerful history
features that are handy if you want a transcript of a REPL session

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Thu Aug 13 01:20:00 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 02:20:00 -0300
Subject: fileinput
References: 
Message-ID: 

En Wed, 12 Aug 2009 01:27:47 -0300, naaman  escribi?:

> I'm writing my first Python script and
> I want to use fileinput to open a file in r+ mode.
> Tried fileinput.input(sys.argv[1:],"r+") but that didn't work.
> ANy ideas?

Don't use fileinput, it can't handle r+, only sequencial access.
Even if you could use it, the documentation says [1]:
fileinput.input([files[, inplace[, backup[, mode[, openhook]]]]])

"r+" corresponds to the `inplace` parameter (behaving like inplace=True)  
instead of `mode`. You could write fileinput.input(sys.argv[1:],  
mode="r+") instead - but again from the docs: "mode... must be one of 'r',  
'rU', 'U' and 'rb'"

> Need to find and overwrite a line in a file several times.
> I can do it using open and seek() etc. but was wondering if I can use
> fileinput.

open+seek is the way to do that (assuming you don't alter the line length)

[1] http://docs.python.org/library/fileinput.html#fileinput.input

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Aug 13 01:34:14 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:34:14 +0900
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
In-Reply-To: <3fdfb992-058b-4017-b1b3-db3a9542b62e@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
References: 	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>		<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>		<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>		<7f7c3e90-6026-411f-8b4a-829798819128@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
	<3fdfb992-058b-4017-b1b3-db3a9542b62e@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Raymond Hettinger wrote:
> On Aug 12, 3:32 am, Paul Boddie  wrote:
>> Maybe the problem is that although everyone welcomes contributions and
>> changes (or says that they do), the mechanisms remain largely beyond
>> criticism.
> 
> FWIW, I support the idea the regular docs incorporating links to
> freely editable wiki pages.  That will at least make it easier for
> people to make changes or add notes.
> 
> That being said, I would like to add a few thoughts about the
> current process. 

The summary that follows accords with my experiences and observations. 
Perhaps you could add it to the Wiki.

   ISTM that important corrections (when the
> docs are clearly in error) tend to get made right away.

Many within a day. I have seen this with both some of my suggestions and 
others.

   What
> is more interesting are the doc requests that get rejected
> and why:

One of my suggestions was postponed pending discussion on PyDev of the 
underlying issue, which I have not initiated yet. Another Georg accepted 
in principle but awaits me taking the time to write a fleshed out 
replacement text.

> * Many doc requests come from people just learning the language
> (that makes sense because the learning process involves reading
> the docs).  Unfortunately, a fair number of those requests are
> flat-out wrong or represent a profound misunderstanding of the
> feature in question.  That may be an indicator that the docs
> need to be improved, but the specific suggestion can be inane.
> 
> * Some doc requests come from people who simply do not like the
> feature in question.  It is natural for tastes, styles, and
> preferences to vary; however, we do have a firm rule that Guido's
> tastes, styles, and preferences are the ones that go into the
> language.  So the doc writers need to try to channel Guido instead
> of fighting him.  So, if you think eval() is evil (I don't but many
> do), we're not going to document that eval() should *never* be used.
> If you hate super(), that's too bad -- the docs need to describe
> what it does and how it was intended to be used -- the docs are no
> place for diatribes on why inheritance is over-used and why you
> think the world would be a better place without mixins or
> multiple inheritance.
> 
> * Then, there is a matter of where to put a particular piece of
> documentation (how many times do you repeat a concept that pervades
> the language).  

I doubt anyone can *really* understand the problem of organizing a 
book's worth in technical information into coherent order until they 
have actually tried to do so.


> Hashing is a good example.  The docs can discuss how
> some objects hash to their object id and that object ids can change
> from run-to-run, but if someone gets tripped-up by the idea (hey,
> my set reprs changed between runs, wtf!), they want the docs updated
> in the specific place that tripped them up (i.e. you must put big
> red warnings in the set documentation, and the dict documentation,
> and everywhere else a hash gets used ...).   The core problem is that
> the docs are interrelated -- the one place you're looking for
> documentation of a specific builtin or function can't contain
> every concept in the language.
> 
> * Some behaviors are intentionally left unspecified.  For the longest
> time, Tim did not want to guarantee sort stability.  This left him
> free to continue to search for algorithmic improvements that did not
> have stability.  Later, the property was deemed so important that it
> did become a guaranteed behavior.  Also, some things are unspecified
> to make things easier for other implementations (IronPython, PyPy,
> Jython, etc.)  We need to make sure that some one doesn't casually
> go through the docs making doc promises that are hard to keep.
> 
> * Some things are just plain difficult to fully explain in English
> and not misrepresent that actual behavior.  For example, the str.split
> ()
> docs have been continuously tweaked over the years.  Even now, I think
> there are corner cases that are not fully captured by the docs.
> Casual
> edits to str.split() docs are more likely than not to take them
> farther
> away from the truth.
> 
> * Then, there is the problem of talking too much.  A book could be
> written about super(), but that shouldn't all go into the docs for
> the super builtin.  Beginners often want to master all the builtins
> and they try to read the doc page on builtin functions.  It used to be
> that you could read through the builtin descriptions in a few minutes.
> Now, it takes a concerted effort to get through.  It is hard to take
> a sip of water from a firehose.  Too much information has make a
> function harder to understand.
> 
> * My biggest pet peeve are requests to fill the docs with big red
> warnings.  I do not want the docs to look like a mine field.  The
> warnings
> should be reserved for a handful of security or data corruption risks.
> For the most part, the docs should be matter-of-fact, explaining what
> a function or method does and how it was intended to be used.
> 
> Preferred:  "The value str.letters is locale dependent"
> 
> Not preferred:  "Caution, the str.letters value can be adversely
> affected by the locale setting (it could even change length!); use
> this
> only when you are certain the locale setting will not violate any of
> your program invariants; consider using a string literal instead; I
> hate
> string.letters and think Guido was smoking crack when it was
> introduced."
> 
> * Another category of rejected doc requests come from people looking
> for
> absolution from one of their programming bugs.  It typically takes the
> form of, "I made an assumption that the language did X, but it did Y
> and my program didn't do what I wanted; therefore, the docs must be
> to blame and they must change ...".  The suggestion is "I was
> suprised"
> implies "the docs are hosed".  The fact is that people with diffferent
> backgrounds are going to have different expectations and someone is
> going to get "surprised".  The docs need to say what functions do, but
> they don't need to be changed everytime someone writes a buggy
> program.
> 
> In short, most doc requests that get rejected are requests that didn't
> actually improve the documentation.
> 
> I do support links from the regular docs to an external wiki but the
> main docs should continue to go through the regular process using the
> tracker.

Agreed

Terry Jan Reedy



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Thu Aug 13 01:36:07 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 02:36:07 -0300
Subject: Format Code Repeat Counts?
References: 
	<50697b2c0908121523jc495a65y1957a503b4f10566@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

En Wed, 12 Aug 2009 19:23:32 -0300, Chris Rebert   
escribi?:

> On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 4:34 PM, jschwab wrote:
> 
>> As a more concrete example, say I have several sets of letters in a
>> list of strings
>> ? ? letters = ["aeiou", "hnopty", "egs", "amsp"]
>> and I wanted to build a regular expression string out of them like
>> ? ? re_str <==> "[aeiou][hnopty][egs][amsp]"
>> Right now, the best I've got that doesn't require an explicit string
>> like "[{1}][{2}][{3}][{4}]" is
>> ? ? re_str = "".join(map(lambda x: "[{0}]".format(x), letters))
>>
>> Is there a better way?
>
> Slightly better, by using a generator expression instead of map() and  
> lambda:
> re_str = "".join("[{0}]".format(x) for x in letters)
>
> Though obviously MRAB's is shorter (and a good show of lateral thinking).

Another way, using {} auto-numbering (requires Python 3.1 or the future  
2.7)

p3> letters = ["aeiou", "hnopty", "egs", "amsp"]
p3> ("[{}]"*len(letters)).format(*letters)
'[aeiou][hnopty][egs][amsp]'


-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Aug 13 01:49:51 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:49:51 +0900
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>		<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>		<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>		<7f7c3e90-6026-411f-8b4a-829798819128@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>	<0292a134$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<3a15345c-9d01-48ab-8f15-dd6053ea70a0@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>	<0292cb5a$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Paul Boddie wrote:

> Right, but those good points are still worth taking on board. There
> have been Xah Lee posts which have been relatively constructive,

The last time that he did do so that I read, I responded rationally like 
I would with any other normal post. He responded with foul insults. End 
of discussion.

 > when the only responses are from people who see the name and can't be
> bothered reading the message before issuing a stock "he's a troll"

False premise.

> response, the tone is likely to remain vulgar from that point onwards.

He was vulgar even when I did ignore the name and did bother to read and 
   write (not 'issue') a specific response. He has also 'blown' 
opportunities on the py-dev list.

tjr




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Aug 13 02:02:45 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 15:02:45 +0900
Subject: Need feedback on ORF-extracting code
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

gb345 wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone.  I'm relatively new to Python, and could use your
> feedback on the code below.
> 
> First some nomenclature.  A "nucleotide" is one of A, C, G, T, or
> U.  (In practice, a sequence of such nucleotides never contains
> both T and U, but this fact is not important in what follows.)  A
> "codon" is a sequence of 3 of these.  A "stop codon" is any one of
> UAA, UAG, UGA, TAA, TAG, or TGA.  Two codons are said to be "in
> frame" in a containing sequence of nucleotides if their positions
> differ by a multiple of 3.  An "open reading frame," or ORF, is
> defined as a maximal subsequence of nucleotides whose length is a
> multiple of 3, begins with either AUG or ATG, terminates right
> before a stop codon in the original sequence, and contains no stop
> codons that are in frame with the initial codon (AUG or ATG).
> 
> The fact that ORFs have lengths that are multiples of 3 means that
> there are three possible "registers" for ORFs (depending the modulo
> 3 of their starting positions), and that ORFs in different registers
> can overlap.  I'll refer to these registers as 0, 1, and 2, because
> they contain ORFs that are in frame with the codons at positions
> 0, 1, and 2 of the original sequence, respectively.
> 
> In the code below, routine extract_orfs takes as input a string,
> assumed to be a sequence of nucleotides, and returns a tuple of
> tuples, describing ORFs.  These ORFs can overlap.
> 
> The helper routine _xo takes as input a string (a sequence of
> nucleotides), and an offset, and returns a tuple of tuples, again
> representing ORFs, but this time all in the same register, since
> they are all in frame with the position passed as the second argument
> to the function.
> 
> I would appreciate your comments on this code.  I feel that it is
> not as clear as it could be, but I don't know how to make it any
> clearer.
> 
> (NOTE: I realize that, in all likelihood, publicly available Python
> code already exists for this.  At the moment I'm more interested
> in improving my Python skills.)
> 
> 
> Many thanks in advance!
> 
> Gabe
> 
> 
> 
> # BEGINNING OF CODE
> import sys
> import re
> 
> _start = r'A[TU]G'
> _stop = r'(?:[TU]A[AG]|[TU]GA)'
> _nonstop = r'(?:[CAG][TUCAG]{2}|[TU](?:[TUC][TUCAG]|[AG][TUC])|[TU]GG)'
> _codon = r'(?:[TUCAG]{3})'
> _orf_re = re.compile('(' + _codon + r'*?)(A[TU]G' +
>                      _nonstop + '*)(' + _stop + ')', flags=re.I)
> _lead_re = re.compile(r'[TUCAG]*?A[TU]G', flags=re.I)
> 
> def _xo(seq, pos):
>     """
>     Helper routine that finds all the non-overlapping in-frame orfs
>     starting from a specific position in the input sequence.
> 
>     input: a string of letters in the set 'tucagTUCAG', and a starting
>            position;
>     output: a tuple of tuples; each internal tuple consists of a
>             starting position, an orf, and the stop codon that
>             terminates it.
>     """
>     
>     ret = []
>     while True:
>         m = _orf_re.match(seq, pos)
>         if not m:
>             break
>         orf = m.group(2)
>         stop = m.group(3)
>         assert len(orf) % 3 == 0

I am not currently familiar with the re module so I cannot comment in 
detail. The assert should be a claim that the re should *never* match 
anything other than a multiple of 3, so that it is a program bug if it 
ever do so.  If this is not true, you should use an if statement.

tjr


>         ret.append((m.start() + len(m.group(1)), orf, stop))
>         pos = m.end()
>     return ret
> 
> def extract_orfs(seq):
>     """
>     Extracts all (possibly overlapping) maximal open reading frames,
>     defined as sequences beginning with AUG (or ATG), ending with an
>     in-frame stop codon, and containing no in-frame stop codons
>     in-between.
> 
>     input: a string of letters in the set 'tucagTUCAG';
>     output: a tuple of tuples; each internal tuple consists of a
>             starting position, an orf, and the stop codon that
>             terminates it.
>     """
> 
>     m = _lead_re.match(seq)
>     if not m:
>         return ()
>     pos = m.start()
>     ret = []
> 
>     for i in range(min(3, len(seq))):
>         ret.extend(_xo(seq, pos + i))
>     ret.sort()
>     return tuple(ret)
> 
> # END OF CODE



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Thu Aug 13 02:16:15 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 03:16:15 -0300
Subject: How to find out in which module an instance of a class is created?
References: <4A7F4874.8030008@johannes-janssen.de>
	<4A7F6016.2060408@cheimes.de> <4A80967F.9030604@johannes-janssen.de>
Message-ID: 

En Mon, 10 Aug 2009 18:51:59 -0300, Johannes Janssen  
 escribi?:

> class A(object):
>     def __init__(self, mod=None):
>         if mod is None:
>             self.mod = sys._getframe(1).f_globals['__name__']
>         else:
>             self.mod = mod
>
> In warnings.warn() they used try around sys._getframe(1). As far as I  
> understand what is done in warnings, there it is not sure what object  
> caused the warning and therefore it is not sure whether you can or  
> cannot use sys._getframe(1). Though in my case it should be quite clear.  
> Can I be sure that my code will always work?

The try/except around sys._getframe(1) is because that function is not  
mandatory/available on all Python implementations (that's the case for  
jython which doesn't provide it).

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Thu Aug 13 02:28:53 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 03:28:53 -0300
Subject: How to page output in >>> ?
References: 
Message-ID: 

En Wed, 12 Aug 2009 18:41:38 -0300, kj  escribi?:

> How does one tell the python interactive interpreter to run the
> next output to stdout through the default pager?  Basically, I'm
> looking for Python's equivalent of Perl's debugger's "|" prefix,
> as in
>
>   DB<1> |print $long_output

Try using pydoc.pager - read the source

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Thu Aug 13 02:36:59 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 08:36:59 +0200
Subject: best practice for documenting a project? pydoc?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 		
	
Message-ID: <4A83B48B.1080307@sequans.com>

Esmail wrote:
> shaileshkumar wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> EPYDOC is very good for automatic generation of documentation from
>> source code.
>>
>> You may also consider Sphinx http://sphinx.pocoo.org/ which is used
>> for many
>> projects including the official Python documentation, documentation of
>> Zope (http://docs.zope.org/).
>> See the full list of projects using Sphinx at 
>> http://sphinx.pocoo.org/examples.html
>>
>> - Shailesh
>
> Hi,
>
> Thanks for the links. Have you heard of something called HappyDoc? I just
> came across it by looking for info on epydoc.
>
> Thanks,
> Esmail
>
I've never used Happydoc. I am using Epydoc, which is very efficient. 
Sphinx is very good as well, but its scope is much larger than 
documenting python code and will not provide  the "click and run"  
effect of epydoc,  for which you don't have to write any additional 
documentation. Epydoc supports restructured text, so you'll be able to 
switch to Sphinx later on without additional work.
But if I remember well, your documentation is for personal use, so I 
guess you'll stick with epydoc.

JM




From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Thu Aug 13 02:53:12 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 03:53:12 -0300
Subject: inspect.stack() performance
References: <2a8674c60908060500k1c77b556la70d06d5feaaef0e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

En Thu, 06 Aug 2009 09:00:45 -0300, Doron Tal   
escribi?:

> I use inspect.stack() to extract some info, such as file name, function  
> name
> and line number, for the sake of logging (home brew logger).
> I tested to see how much time it takes to execute the command:
>
> Python 2.4.3 (#1, Jan 21 2009, 01:11:33)
> [GCC 4.1.2 20071124 (Red Hat 4.1.2-42)] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> import timeit
>>>> t = timeit.Timer('inspect.stack()', 'import inspect')
>>>> t.repeat(3,1000)
> [0.28500604629516602, 0.28315305709838867, 0.29169297218322754]
>>>>
>
> About 280uSec per call.
>
> If I log 1000 times per seconds than I get to spend 28% of the process  
> time
> on inspect.stack()
> Is there a better/quicker way of retrieving the same info?

inspect loads the whole source code of every module in the stack (using  
linecache). If all you want is module name + line number, use this:

f = sys._getframe()
print f.f_globals['__name__'], f.f_lineno

(see a recent post about warnings.warn too)

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Thu Aug 13 03:19:05 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 04:19:05 -0300
Subject: Monkeypatching an object to become callable
References: <87hbwgu7xa.fsf@vostro.rath.org>
	<0aa46ece-64b9-4c28-b690-5ac5937ce3f2@f20g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
	<4a7fd55e$0$32765$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<87iqguey37.fsf@vostro.rath.org>
Message-ID: 

En Tue, 11 Aug 2009 20:21:16 -0300, Nikolaus Rath   
escribi?:

> Bruno Desthuilliers  writes:
>> 7stud a ?crit :
>> (snip)
>>> class Wrapper(object):
>>>     def __init__(self, obj, func):
>>>         self.obj = obj
>>>         self.func = func
>>>
>>>     def __call__(self, *args):
>>>         return self.func(*args)
>>>
>>>     def __getattr__(self, name):
>>>         return object.__getattribute__(self.obj, name)
>>
>> This should be
>>
>>           return getattr(self.obj, name)
>>
>> directly calling object.__getattribute__ might skip redefinition of
>> __getattribute__ in self.obj.__class__ or it's mro.
>
> Works nicely, thanks. I came up with the following shorter version which
> modifies the object in-place:
>
> class Modifier(obj.__class__):
>      def __call__(self):
>          return fn()
>
> obj.__class__ = Modifier
>
>
> To me this seems a bit more elegant (less code, less underscores). Or
> are there some cases where the above would fail?

I assume the above code is inside a function like make_callable(obj, fn)
Then, a new class is created for every instance you make callable; you may  
want to cache all those classes (classes aren't cheap).

Might fail: when obj is not a new-style class, or its __class__ isn't  
writable (e.g. builtin types).

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From chris at simplistix.co.uk  Thu Aug 13 03:20:37 2009
From: chris at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 08:20:37 +0100
Subject: httplib incredibly slow :-(
In-Reply-To: <4eb0089f0908121753o5ecf141dj304b21c3df0d3d6b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4A81D3CB.7080209@simplistix.co.uk>	
		
	<4A82EFDC.70502@simplistix.co.uk>
	<4eb0089f0908121753o5ecf141dj304b21c3df0d3d6b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A83BEC5.40101@simplistix.co.uk>

David Robinow wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Chris Withers wrote:
>> David Stanek wrote:
>>> Also on the same box where you run this script
>>> can you test with curl or wget?
>> It's a Windows box, so no :-(
> 
> Why not?
> 
> http://users.ugent.be/~bpuype/wget/
> http://curl.haxx.se/download.html

Fair point, but I don't see what this will achieve...

I've already established that the file downloads in seconds with 
[something else], so I'd like to understand why python isn't doing the 
same and fix the problem...

Chris

-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting
            - http://www.simplistix.co.uk


From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 03:37:42 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 00:37:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<3611ca55-79a6-4336-9041-07d0893789f7@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
	<0447e8a2-508d-45b2-8d15-da0cc2a56b5f@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	
	<494d80f1-0b47-468c-bdd9-7a087f6d915c@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	
	<7877b03a-09da-4836-804c-502b6f78003c@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<02933e60$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <2cdc3f88-1952-4ca2-9754-5b7583fb5fd8@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 12, 7:19?pm, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:

> You are making an unjustified assumption: \y is not an error.

You are making in an unjustified assumption that I ever made such an
assumption!

My claim is and has always been NOT that \y is inately an error, but
rather that treating unrecognized escape sequences as legal escape
sequences is error PRONE.

> While I'm amused that you've made my own point for me, I'm less
> amused that you seem to be totally incapable of seeing past your
> parochial language assumptions,

Where do you get the notion that my assumptions are in any sense
"parochial"? They come from (1) a great deal of experience programming
very reliable software, and (2) having learned at least two dozen
different programming languages in my life.

> I disagree with nearly everything you say in this post. I think
> that a few points you make have some validity, but the vast
> majority are based on a superficial and confused understanding
> of language design principles.

Whatever. I've taken two graduate level classes at MIT on programming
languages design, and got an A in both classes, and designed my own
programming language as a final project, and received an A+. But I
guess I don't really know anything about the topic at all.

> But it's not the only reasonable design choice, and Bash has
> made a different choice, and Python has made yet a third
> reasonable choice, and Pascal made yet a fourth reasonable choice.

And so did Perl and PHP, and whatever other programming language you
happen to mention. In fact, all programming languages are equally
good, so we might as well just freeze all language design as it is
now. Clearly we can do no better.

> One party insisting that red is the only logical colour for a
> car, and that anybody who prefers white or black or blue is
> illogical, is unacceptable.

If having all cars be red saved a lot of lives, or increased gas
mileage significantly, then it might very well be the best color for a
car. But of course, that is not the case. With programming languages,
there is much more likely to be an actual fact of the matter on which
sorts of language design decisions make programmers more productive on
average, and which ones result in more reliable software.

I will certainly admit that obtaining objective data on such things is
very difficult, but it's a completely different thing that one's color
preference for their car.

|>ouglas


From deets at nospam.web.de  Thu Aug 13 04:01:53 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 10:01:53 +0200
Subject: resume upload wsgi script
In-Reply-To: 
References: <36993141-188c-4b13-8819-e60516d27437@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<7e80jlF2etv0kU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	<7e85i3F2fdc1eU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<9cd75067-8839-44dd-9b42-4ffb15488b66@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
	<7e8ildF2f1hcpU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<49e41062-9e0d-4c5e-beca-edb02d3ce6e8@e34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<7ea4lpF2dvr5cU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
Message-ID: <7ehvjhF2ghuo2U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

gert schrieb:
> On Aug 10, 10:39 am, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
>>> 250KB :)
>> So why do you bother?
>>
>>> Its just HTTP1.1 has everything for making ftp like file transfers
>>> possible.
>>> When I write it to a file then I am back at square one because I still
>>> need to load it completely to get it into a blob.
>> Well, the blob is nothing but datat in the file-system. If you are
>> *really* concerned about that, then don't use the db, but use the
>> filesystem, appending to the file until it's finished - and storing a
>> reference to it to the DB. We do that as well, because otherwise the db
>> will become unmanagable anyway (dumping, backups).
>>
> 
> I also hate debugging sql that contains blob data. So if using files
> how do you clean the http post stuff?
> (b+r'.*?Content-Type: application/octet-stream\r\n\r\n(.*?)\r
> \n--'+b,file,DOTALL)
> using as litlle memory as possible ?
> I can not use PUT upload only because flash does not support PUT.

PUT or POST has nothing todo with that.

It's the question if you need formencoded data or not. If not, you can 
simply upload the data directly, no nead to cleanup anything.

For decoding formencoded data, you will need to write your own parser if 
you insist on these very debatable memory-constraints of yours.

Diez


From efotinis at y  Thu Aug 13 04:56:04 2009
From: efotinis at y (Elias Fotinis (eliasf))
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 11:56:04 +0300
Subject: Nice copy in interactive terminal
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <1250153823.228153@athprx03>

"casebash" wrote:
> I've been wondering for a while if there exists an interactive
> terminal which has nice copy feature (ie. I can copy code without
> getting the >>> in front of every line).

It would help if we knew what platform you're interested in -- your 
User-Agent is G2/1.0, but I don't know what that is.  :o)

On Windows, PythonWin can copy from the interactive window without the 
prompts.



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Thu Aug 13 05:28:25 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 06:28:25 -0300
Subject: Unsigned char array to an unsigned longlong array
References: 
Message-ID: 

En Tue, 11 Aug 2009 23:22:27 -0300, Jus  escribi?:

> Is there a way to have an Array of unsigned longlong (C Type: unsigned
> longlong, Minimum size if bytes: 8) ?
>
> What I want to do is to store an array of bytes in an array of longlongs.
>
> To workaround this issue, I have tried to use the double array (TypeCode
> 'd'), since the size in bytes is the same (8 for instance).

Do you want to operate on it from inside Python, or manage it in some way?  
If not, use whatever format you like, even bytes. It's just a contiguous  
memory block with a known size.

> But it gives me strange result. Please look at the example:
>
>
> import array
>
> myByteArray = array.array('B', [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8])
> myLongArray = array.array('L', myByteArray.tostring() )
>>> myLongArray = array('L', [67305985L, 134678021L])
> myDoubleArray = array.array('d', myByteArray.tostring() )
>>> myDoubleArray = array('d', [5.447603722011605e-270])
>
> If we convert the byte array to an hex form, we will get for the long  
> array:
> [04030201, 08070605].

What do you mean "convert the byte array to an hex form"?

> If we convert this hex array to decimal, we then get the Long Array:
> [67305985, 134678021].
>
>
> Now, if we do the same exercise for the double array, the hex form will  
> look
> like: [0807060504030201].
>
> And the decimal value would be: [5.784376957523072e+17].

How did you got that?

> Where does the 5.447603722011605e-270 value comes from ?

The struct module agrees:

py> s=struct.pack('q', 0x0807060504030201)
py> struct.unpack('d', s)
(5.447603722011605e-270,)

And looking at the hex representation:

py> (5.447603722011605e-270).hex()
'0x1.7060504030201p-895'

The 1. is implied, 7060504030201 are visible (52 bits), and the exponent  
is:

py> hex(-895+1023)
'0x80'

So that value seems OK to me, at least with IEEE 754 hardware...

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From erik.bernoth at googlemail.com  Thu Aug 13 05:32:53 2009
From: erik.bernoth at googlemail.com (Erik Bernoth)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 11:32:53 +0200
Subject: what is it, that I don't understand about python and lazy evaluation?
Message-ID: <46ae62fe0908130232x22241399pdf7a845d9d142962@mail.gmail.com>

Hi List,

look at the following code:

def evens():
    # iterator returning even numbers
    i = 0
    while True:
        yield i
        i += 2

# now get all the even numbers up to 15
L = [n for n in evens() if n < 15]

Isn't it strange, that this code runs (in a lazy language) for eternity? I
would expect python to to spit out (in no time):
>> L
[0, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14]

after 14 it is not nessesary to evaluate evens() any further.

I really started to ask myself if python really is lazy, but everything else
I wrote in lazy style still worked. Example:
>> def test(txt, retval):
..    print(txt)
..    return retval
..
>>> test(1, True) or test(2, True)
1
True
>>> test(1, True) and test(2, True)
1
2
True


Can anybody explain what happens with evens()?

best regards
Erik Bernoth

PS: The code comes from a list post from 2006. You find it here:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2006-November/585783.html
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From andreengels at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 05:58:15 2009
From: andreengels at gmail.com (Andre Engels)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 11:58:15 +0200
Subject: Scraping Wikipedia with Python
In-Reply-To: <6YidncRAiJ6SIxzXRVn_vwA@giganews.com>
References:  
	<4a81b6f0$0$1590$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	 
	<6YidncRAiJ6SIxzXRVn_vwA@giganews.com>
Message-ID: <6faf39c90908130258q21f9c45cqca0c0a0db0a55b6e@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 8:53 PM, David C Ullrich wrote:

> Try reading a little there! Starting there I went to
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Creating_a_bot
>
> where I found a section on existing bots, comments on how the "scraping"
> is not what you want, and even a Python section with a link to something
> labelled ?PyWikipediaBot...

Some information on using the PyWikipediaBot for scraping from someone
who used to program on the bot (and occasionally still does):

To make the framework work, you need to add a file user-config.py with
the following contents:

family = 'wikipedia'
mylang = 'en'

If you want to use the bot to also edit pages on wikipedia, you will
have to add:

usernames['wikipedia']['en'] = 

If you work on another language of course you use that language's
abbreviation instead of en.

The heart of the framework is the file wikipedia.py, you need to
import that one. It contains two important classes: Page and Site,
which represent a wikipedia page and the site as a whole,
respectively.

It is best to put your code in a try like this:

try:
    mysite = wikipedia.getSite()
    
finally:
    wikipedia.stopme()

The stopme() functionality has to do with the bot's behaviour to avoid
over-feeding the server with requests. It has a certain time (default
is 10 seconds) between two requests, but if you have several bots
running, it will lengthen this time. stopme() tells that the bot is
not running any more, so other runs are not delayed by it.
wikipedia.getSite() gets the site object for your default site (if the
settings above are chosen it is the English language Wikipedia).

Still with me? Good, because now we get into the real programming.

The Page class has as its __init__:
    def __init__(self, site, title, insite=None, defaultNamespace=0):

site is here the wiki on which the page exists (usually this will be
mysite, which is why I defined it above), title the title of the page.
The optional parameters are for special usage.

The Page class has a number of methods, which you can find in the
file, but some of the most important are:
page.title() - the title of the page
page.site() - the wiki the page is on
page.get() - the (wiki) text of the page
page.put(text) - saves the page with 'text' as its new content. An
important optional parameter is 'comment', which specifies the summary
that is given with the change
page.exists() - a boolean, true if the page exists, false otherwise
page.linkedPages() - a list of Page objects, being the pages the page links to

However, instead of page.get() it is advisable to use:

wikipedia.getall(site,pages)

with 'site' being a Site object (e.g. mysite) and pages a list (or
more generally, iterable) of Page objects. It will get all pages in
the list using a single call to the wiki, thus speeding up your bot
and at the same time reducing its load on the wiki. Once a page has
been loaded (either through get or through getall), subsequent calls
to page.get() will not reload it. Thus, the normal way of working is
to create a list of pages one is interested in, use getall (in groups
of 60 or so) to load them, then use get to work with them.

Another useful file in the framework is pagegenerators. It provides a
number of generators that yield Page objects. Some interesting ones
(check the code for the exact parameters):

AllpagesPageGenerator: generates all pages of the wiki, alphabetically
from a specified begin
ReferringPageGenerator: all pages linking to a given page
CategorizedPageGenerator: all pages in a given directory
LinkedPageGenerator: all pages linked to from a given page

Other generators are used by 'wrapping them around' a given generator.
The most important of these is the PreloadingGenerator, which ensures
that the page are preloaded (using wikipedia.getall) in groups.

A simple way to use the bot framework to scrape all pages of the
English Wikipedia (warning: This takes a few days!) would be:

import wikipedia
import pagegenerators

basicgen = pagegenerators.AllpagesPageGenerator(includeredirects = False)
generator = pagegenerators.PreloadingGenerator(basicgen, 200)
for page in generator:
    title = page.title()
    text = page.get()
    

-- 
Andr? Engels, andreengels at gmail.com


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Thu Aug 13 06:00:17 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 20:00:17 +1000
Subject: subprocess + python-daemon - bug/problem?
References: <699d22bd-e912-4ea3-92b0-c352a64611fb@n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<828acd8d-a9bd-4506-b695-e537af4587d8@l31g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<873a94ojvi.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <87hbwc58zy.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Ben Finney  writes:

> My first thought was perhaps it's related to the fact that the process
> has no stdout? But setting ?stdout? and ?stderr? to the same file::
> 
>     #! /usr/bin/python
> 
>     import daemon
>     import subprocess
> 
>     fake_console = open("fake_console.txt", "w+")
>     daemon.DaemonContext(stdout=fake_console, stderr=fake_console).open()
>     subprocess.Popen(['echo', '1']).wait()

For newcomers to this thread: the ?daemon? module is provided by the
 ?python-daemon?
distribution, of which I am the maintainer.

> still gives the same error::
> 
>     1
>     Traceback (most recent call last):
>       File "/home/bignose/Projects/python/python-daemon/bin/andy-clegg-test", line 8, in 
>         subprocess.Popen(['echo', '1']).wait()
>       File "/usr/lib/python2.5/subprocess.py", line 1184, in wait
>         pid, sts = self._waitpid_no_intr(self.pid, 0)
>       File "/usr/lib/python2.5/subprocess.py", line 1014, in _waitpid_no_intr
>         return os.waitpid(pid, options)
>     OSError: [Errno 10] No child processes
> 
> I'm not familiar enough with the nuances of the ?subprocess? module to
> know what might be going wrong here. I'd like to know whether it might
> be a problem in the ?python-daemon? library.

I am no closer to a solution on this one. I don't have enough experience
or knowledge of the ?subprocess? module to know whether it's a bug in
?subprocess?, a bug in ?python-daemon?, or a hard-to-track interaction
between the two.

Any narrowing of the problem would be appreciated.

-- 
 \        ?I bought a dog the other day. I named him Stay. It's fun to |
  `\     call him. ?Come here, Stay! Come here, Stay!? He went insane. |
_o__)         Now he just ignores me and keeps typing.? ?Steven Wright |
Ben Finney


From BrianVanderburg2 at aim.com  Thu Aug 13 06:07:11 2009
From: BrianVanderburg2 at aim.com (Brian Allen Vanderburg II)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 06:07:11 -0400
Subject: what is it,
	that I don't understand about python and lazy evaluation?
In-Reply-To: <46ae62fe0908130232x22241399pdf7a845d9d142962@mail.gmail.com>
References: <46ae62fe0908130232x22241399pdf7a845d9d142962@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A83E5CF.7080208@aim.com>

Erik Bernoth wrote:
> Hi List,
>
> look at the following code:
>
> def evens():
>     # iterator returning even numbers
>     i = 0
>     while True:
>         yield i
>         i += 2
>
> # now get all the even numbers up to 15
> L = [n for n in evens() if n < 15]
>
> Isn't it strange, that this code runs (in a lazy language) for 
> eternity? I would expect python to to spit out (in no time):
> >> L
> [0, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14]
>
> after 14 it is not nessesary to evaluate evens() any further.
>
> I really started to ask myself if python really is lazy, but 
> everything else I wrote in lazy style still worked. Example:
> >> def test(txt, retval):
> ..    print(txt)
> ..    return retval
> ..
> >>> test(1, True) or test(2, True)
> 1
> True
> >>> test(1, True) and test(2, True)
> 1
> 2
> True
>
>
> Can anybody explain what happens with evens()?
>
> best regards
> Erik Bernoth
>
> PS: The code comes from a list post from 2006. You find it here: 
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2006-November/585783.html
In the list comprehension, it goes over all the items from the generator 
until the generator is done, and any item that is less than 15 becomes 
part of the list.  The "if n < 15" does not control when the generator 
terminates, only which results from it are selected to be part of the list.

You can pass the maximum desired value to make it terminate:

def evens(max):
    i = 0
    while i <= max:
       yield i
       i += 2

L = list(evens(15))
L: [0, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14]

L = [n for n in evens(15)]
L: [0, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14]


Brian Vanderburg II


From dmhouse at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 07:11:18 2009
From: dmhouse at gmail.com (David House)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 12:11:18 +0100
Subject: what is it, that I don't understand about python and lazy 
	evaluation?
In-Reply-To: <46ae62fe0908130232x22241399pdf7a845d9d142962@mail.gmail.com>
References: <46ae62fe0908130232x22241399pdf7a845d9d142962@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

2009/8/13 Erik Bernoth :
> after 14 it is not nessesary to evaluate evens() any further.

How does Python know this? I.e. how does it know that evens() will
always yield things in ascending order? For example, I could write an
iterator like this:

def my_iter():
    for i in [0,2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16,18,1,3,5]:
        yield i

Now, imagine I do [i for i in my_iter() if i < 15]. If you quit
iterating after `i' becomes 16, you'll miss the valid numbers 1, 3, 5
at the end of the list!

-- 
-David


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Aug 13 07:23:50 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 12:23:50 +0100
Subject: what is it,
	that I don't understand about python and lazy evaluation?
In-Reply-To: <46ae62fe0908130232x22241399pdf7a845d9d142962@mail.gmail.com>
References: <46ae62fe0908130232x22241399pdf7a845d9d142962@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A83F7C6.2060301@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Erik Bernoth wrote:
> Hi List,
> 
> look at the following code:
> 
> def evens():
>     # iterator returning even numbers
>     i = 0
>     while True:
>         yield i
>         i += 2
> 
> # now get all the even numbers up to 15
> L = [n for n in evens() if n < 15]
> 
> Isn't it strange, that this code runs (in a lazy language) for eternity? 
> I would expect python to to spit out (in no time):
>  >> L
> [0, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14]
> 
> after 14 it is not nessesary to evaluate evens() any further.
> 
It's equivalent to:

     L = []
     for n in evens():
         if n < 15
             L.append(n)


From davea at ieee.org  Thu Aug 13 07:50:30 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 07:50:30 -0400
Subject: fileinput
In-Reply-To: <521d7322-b8ee-490e-8cde-7e854e8afb7a@r34g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
References: 	
	<521d7322-b8ee-490e-8cde-7e854e8afb7a@r34g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A83FE06.90305@ieee.org>

naaman wrote:
> On Aug 12, 1:35 pm, Dave Angel  wrote:
>   
>> naaman wrote:
>>     
>>> I'm writing my first Python script and
>>> I want to use fileinput to open a file in r+ mode.
>>> Tried fileinput.input(sys.argv[1:],"r+") but that didn't work.
>>> ANy ideas?
>>>       
>>> Need to find and overwrite a line in a file several times.
>>> I can do it using open and seek() etc. but was wondering if I can use
>>> fileinput.
>>>       
>>> thanks;
>>>       
>> I haven't used it, but check out the 'inplace' keyword parameter.
>>
>> DaveA
>>     
>
> I've only Python for a week so I'm not sure what inplace does
>
>   
You should read the docs for it
    ( http://www.python.org/doc/2.6.2/library/fileinput.html  ),
but it's not very clear to me either  So I dug up an example on the web:
     (ref:   http://effbot.org/librarybook/fileinput.htm )

import fileinput, sys

for line in fileinput.input(inplace=1):
    # /convert Windows/DOS text files to Unix files/
    if line[-2:] == "\r\n":
        line = line[:-2] + "\n"
    sys.stdout.write(line)


The inplace argument tells it to create a new file with the same name as 
the original (doing all the necessary nonsense with using a scratch 
file, and renaming/deleting) for each file processed.  Stdout is pointed 
to that new version of the file.  Notice that you have to explicitly 
write everything you want to wind up in the file -- if a given line is 
to remain unchanged, you just write "line" directly.

If you're new to Python, I do not recommend trying to do open/seek to 
update a text file in place, especially if you're in DOS.  There are 
lots of traps.  the inplace method of fileinput avoids these by 
implicitly creating temp files and handling the details for you, which 
probably works great if you're dealing with text, in order.

DaveA



From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Thu Aug 13 07:58:33 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 04:58:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: csv.DictWriter.write_header()
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <68b9136d-fa0b-42dc-addf-02d338da34cd@z4g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 13, 1:15?pm, Alan G Isaac  wrote:
> > On Aug 13, 6:45 am, Alan G Isaac  wrote:
> >> Given a csv.DictWriter instance `dw`
> >> I think it would be nice to be able to
> >> say dw.write_header()
> >> instead of
> >> dw.writer.writerow(dw.fieldnames)
>
> >> Good idea?
>
> On 8/12/2009 10:24 PM John Machin apparently wrote:
>
> > Yes, it's a brilliant idea. All you have to do is insert the following
> > lines in your code after importing csv:
>
> > csv.DictWriter.write_header = (
> > ? ? lambda dw: dw.writer.writerow(dw.fieldnames)
> > ? ? )
>
> I do not understand the reason for your silly, sarcastic response.

Duck typing: ask a silly question, get a silly answer.

> I already showed you how to achieve the result,

What result? You said (in effect) "I think it would be nice to be able
to write A instead of B". You didn't show any way of setting things up
so that one could write A instead of B.

I showed one way. Other possibilities are a 2-line patch to the users
own csv.py, and submitting a patch to the dev team. The second is
kludgy, and there could be a wait until e.g. 2.7 before the third
happens. So back to the first way; everybody should have a utility
module that they import to do little fixes like that ... here is a
slightly more robust version:

import csv
try:
    csv.DictWriter.write_header
except AttributeError:
    csv.DictWriter.write_header = (
        lambda dw: dw.writer.writerow(dw.fieldnames)
        )

> so obviously
> I am not just asking for my own personal gain.

???

> I take it you do not realize that many users do not see
> a simple way to get this often needed functionality.

No, I don't. How did you come to that realisation? AFAICT they don't
ask in this forum or on StackOverflow.

> (For example, see the gymnatics suggested by Shai Vaingast
> in his otherwise excellent and useful book.)

I can imagine that one might (without reading the source) make do with
the published APIs:

dw = csv.DictWriter(open(...), my_field_names
dw.writerow(dict((fn, fn) for fn in my_field_names))

> And indeed,
> there is no reason to expect them to.

Indeed not, as for somebody who otherwise sees utility in the
DictWriter class not having a writer_headers method is a glaring
deficiency.

Note that there is a difference between "expecting C to do X" and
"expecting C to be able to do X". I really hope you don't mean that
people should not be encouraged to be able to write a trivial class
like csv.DictWriter and add trivial functionality themselves ... or to
be able to just write the required functionality inline:

wtr = csv.writer(open(...), ...)
wtr.writerow(my_field_names)
for adict in source_of_dicts():
    wtr.writerow(adict[fn] for fn in my_field_names)

or even:

for obj in source_of_objects():
    wtr.writerow(getattr(obj, fn) for fn in my_field_names)

> So my question was, would this improve the class from
> a usability perspective?

Of course.

> ?Do you have a useful response?

See above. Also, the csv module appears to be in two minds about
underscores in attribute names (field_size_limit, skipinitialspace,
writerow, writerows) -- it may cause less confusion if it were called
writeheader (consistent with writerow).


From ebonak at hotmail.com  Thu Aug 13 08:29:48 2009
From: ebonak at hotmail.com (Esmail)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 08:29:48 -0400
Subject: best practice for documenting a project? pydoc?
In-Reply-To: <4A83B48B.1080307@sequans.com>
References: 			
	<4A83B48B.1080307@sequans.com>
Message-ID: 

Hello Jean-Michel,

Thanks for your post. Based on it, and the ones received so
far I will give epydoc a closer look. I don't need something
superfancy (at least at the moment), just something that helps
me document my code more in an organized way and helps me
sift through the various classes/methods more easily once I
come back to the project after some lengthy interruptions.

Best,

Esmail

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> 
>
> I've never used Happydoc. I am using Epydoc, which is very efficient. 
> Sphinx is very good as well, but its scope is much larger than 
> documenting python code and will not provide  the "click and run"  
> effect of epydoc,  for which you don't have to write any additional 
> documentation. Epydoc supports restructured text, so you'll be able to 
> switch to Sphinx later on without additional work.
> But if I remember well, your documentation is for personal use, so I 
> guess you'll stick with epydoc.



From drobinow at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 08:44:12 2009
From: drobinow at gmail.com (David Robinow)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 08:44:12 -0400
Subject: httplib incredibly slow :-(
In-Reply-To: <4A83BEC5.40101@simplistix.co.uk>
References: <4A81D3CB.7080209@simplistix.co.uk>
	
	<4A82EFDC.70502@simplistix.co.uk>
	<4eb0089f0908121753o5ecf141dj304b21c3df0d3d6b@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A83BEC5.40101@simplistix.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4eb0089f0908130544t72affa8ep7aa364806a94f9bb@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 3:20 AM, Chris Withers wrote:
> David Robinow wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Chris Withers
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> David Stanek wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Also on the same box where you run this script
>>>> can you test with curl or wget?
>>>
>>> It's a Windows box, so no :-(
>>
>> Why not?
>>
>> http://users.ugent.be/~bpuype/wget/
>> http://curl.haxx.se/download.html
>
> Fair point, but I don't see what this will achieve...
>
> I've already established that the file downloads in seconds with [something
> else], so I'd like to understand why python isn't doing the same and fix the
> problem...
 My post was simply to correct the implication that curl and wget can
not be used on Windows. It's up to you whether you want to use one or
the other.
 I'm not the OP, and this is not my area of expertise, but ...
  You've got two data points. You've jumped to the conclusion that
there's something wrong with Python or your code. You're probably
right. However, if you try wget, for example, and it's as slow as your
code, you cqn look elsewhere.  If, on the other hand, wget is as fast
as IE, you'll have more proof that your code is the problem.
 Then, since wget is open source you can look at the source code and
see what wget is doing right that you (or httplib) is doing wrong.


From catalinfest at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 08:55:56 2009
From: catalinfest at gmail.com (catalinfest at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 05:55:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: PIL and Python
Message-ID: 

Hello !
I want use python to change the "note" from .jpeg files .
What is the functions on PIL how make this ?
Thank you !


From invalid at invalid  Thu Aug 13 09:24:07 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 08:24:07 -0500
Subject: How to launch a function at regular time intervals ?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-13, Dave Angel  wrote:

> I'm assuming you want to call it every time_interval seconds, on 
> average, with a little jitter allowed on each call, but keeping correct 
> long term.  In other words, if one call is a little late, you want the 
> next one to still happen as close to on-time as possible.
>
> The general outline is something like (untested):
>
> times_called = 0           #number of times function has been called
> start_time = now
> while True:
>      elapsed = now - start_time
>      int_elapsed = int(elapsed/time_interval)
>      for times_called in range(times_called, int_elapsed):
>                     call_the_function()
>      sleep(time_interval/10)           #this might give us 10% jitter, which is usually fine

I don't understand the reasoning behind the above loop --
specifically the sleeping of smaller intervals than needed.

Why not something like this:

    interval = 5.0  # interval in seconds
    next = time.time()

    while True:
        now = time.time()
        if now < next:      
            time.sleep(now-next)
        print "call_the_function()"
        next += interval

That will be accurate over the long term with minimal jitter.

      



From squishywaffle at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 09:31:25 2009
From: squishywaffle at gmail.com (Greg Taylor)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 06:31:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Networked Broadcast Messaging
References: <37ea826b-708d-48f4-a64a-42f58fec5325@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <859b8238-a730-4699-a94f-618f7311f58f@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 11, 9:18?pm, David Bolen  wrote:
>
> If you want better guarantees, you might look into a distributed
> message bus like Spread (http://www.spread.org/) or perhaps a
> messaging protocol like XMPP (http://xmpp.org/) through its PubSub
> extension. ?Both have Python interfaces, though I have no personal
> experience with either. ?But perhaps that will also give you some
> terms or starting points for searching for other options.

This is also very helpful. In particular Spread, looks very
attractive.

Thanks for the tip,

Greg


From solipsis at pitrou.net  Thu Aug 13 09:32:29 2009
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 13:32:29 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: what is it,
	that I don't understand about python and lazy evaluation?
References: <46ae62fe0908130232x22241399pdf7a845d9d142962@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

Erik Bernoth  googlemail.com> writes:
> 
> Isn't it strange, that this code runs (in a lazy language) for eternity?

Python is a not a lazy language.
`and` and `or` are particular, they are language constructs (*), not operators,
that's why they can decide whether or not to evaluate their second term. It's a
feature, but this feature is not general to Python.

(*) by this I mean they have similar status as, for example, `if` and `else`




From ebonak at hotmail.com  Thu Aug 13 09:43:12 2009
From: ebonak at hotmail.com (Esmail)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:43:12 -0400
Subject: Plotting Quadratic Functions, pygame
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Hello Senad,

You might find this style guide useful too in your toolbox of
Python skills & tricks.

   http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/

This is a great and helpful group of people here, we are lucky to
have access to groups like this.

Best,

Esmail



From rurpy at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 13 10:05:18 2009
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 07:05:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	
	<7f7c3e90-6026-411f-8b4a-829798819128@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
	<3fdfb992-058b-4017-b1b3-db3a9542b62e@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3d808272-6e56-4cf1-90df-8e5201df02df@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On 08/12/2009 12:27 PM, Raymond Hettinger wrote:
> On Aug 12, 3:32 am, Paul Boddie  wrote:
>> Maybe the problem is that although everyone welcomes contributions and
>> changes (or says that they do), the mechanisms remain largely beyond
>> criticism.
>
> FWIW, I support the idea the regular docs incorporating links to
> freely editable wiki pages.  That will at least make it easier for
> people to make changes or add notes.
>
> That being said, I would like to add a few thoughts about the
> current process.   ISTM that important corrections (when the
> docs are clearly in error) tend to get made right away.  What
> is more interesting are the doc requests that get rejected
> and why:

[...snip interesting categorization of "bad" doc enhancement
suggestions...]

> In short, most doc requests that get rejected are requests that didn't
> actually improve the documentation.
>
> I do support links from the regular docs to an external wiki but the
> main docs should continue to go through the regular process using the
> tracker.

What is the purpose of such a wiki?

1. To provide hopefully useful adjunct information for each
doc page?

2. To provide a source of input for improving the next version
of the docs?

In general I have a low opinion of wikis.  Nearly all the ones
I've seen are trash heaps of out-dated and wrong information,
atrocious writing, and comments that look like the middle of
some arcane usenet thread.  They lack organization making it
very difficult to find the needles of good information in the
haystack of junk.  The only one that seems to work is Wikipedia
and it "works" because it has a very heavy-weight process
controlling contributions.  (And even then, my biggest complaint
with Wikipedia is the poor writing quality in a lot of articles.)

I'm not trying to be negative, only pointing out that to serve
either of the goals I asked about above, a wiki will probably
require a considerable management effort that should be faced
up front.  To simply set up a wiki and "wait for it to
self-organize" (as I here read once) is a pipe-dream.

How will it be managed?  Anything written stays?  If not what
standards are used to remove junk entries?  Wrong entries?
Questionable entries?  Who will do this?  Will they act based
on their own judgment or some documented formal standards?
What happens to comments when a new doc version is released?
What happens when entries become obsolete?  What happens when
comments are disputed?

If the goal is (2) what kind of wiki contributions are being
solicited ("I don't understand what this sentence means"? a
complete rewrite of a section?) and how is that communicated?
Who will take a long string of wiki comments constituting a
discussion and condense them into something that can be
submitted as a doc patch?  (This I suspect is where the
work is, where someone with good writing skills is needed.)
Will this process be sufficient to raise the quality of the
docs significantly, or are other steps also needed such as
an attitude shift in what the core committers consider
acceptable?

If the goal is (1) above, it could potentially have a
deleterious effect on the docs in that it will be easier to
respond to requests to expand some description with, "there's
no need since that is covered in (or belongs in) the wiki
comments".

All the above not withstanding, I too think a wiki is worth
trying.  But without doing a lot more than just "setting up
a wiki", I sadly believe even a python.org supported wiki
is doomed to failure.


From ifl2009 at shu.edu  Thu Aug 13 10:16:45 2009
From: ifl2009 at shu.edu (IFL 2009)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 10:16:45 -0400
Subject: IFL 2009: Final Call for Papers and Participation
Message-ID: 

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

From paul at boddie.org.uk  Thu Aug 13 10:46:15 2009
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 07:46:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	
	<7f7c3e90-6026-411f-8b4a-829798819128@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
	<3fdfb992-058b-4017-b1b3-db3a9542b62e@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com> 
	<3d808272-6e56-4cf1-90df-8e5201df02df@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <13be5a11-612b-4fc5-a220-cc9aba2e4f8c@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On 13 Aug, 16:05, ru... at yahoo.com wrote:
>
> All the above not withstanding, I too think a wiki is worth
> trying. ?But without doing a lot more than just "setting up
> a wiki", I sadly believe even a python.org supported wiki
> is doomed to failure.

The ones on python.org seem to function reasonably well. I accept that
they could be more aggressively edited, but this isn't done because
there's a compromise between letting people contribute and keeping
things moderately coherent, with the former being favoured. For other
purposes, it would be quite acceptable to favour editorial control.

I won't argue that providing infrastructure solves a problem - that's
precisely the kind of thing I was criticising when I noted that some
people will readily criticise the choice of tools to do a job instead
of focusing on the job that has to be done - and you need people who
are reasonably competent editors, but Wiki solutions remove a lot of
technical barriers. I'm not arguing for the flavour of Wiki which
implies unfettered, anonymous access from everyone on the Internet,
either: the kind of Wiki that detractors portray all Wiki solutions as
being in order to further their super-special "it has to fit like a
glove or it's totally unusable" software agenda. It's quite possible
to have people with somewhat more privileges than others in order to
keep the peace, and they don't all need to have an entrenched
editorial interest: on the current python.org Wiki sites, most of the
administrators don't have an active interest in most of the content,
but they are able to exercise control when it's clear that some
contributors aren't particularly interested in actually improving the
content.

As well as having an active community effort around the existing
python.org Wiki sites, there are also people who are interested in
improving these offerings. What worries me is that despite such
activity and such interest, many people will continue to lament the
lack of vitality (or whatever other metric) of the general python.org
offering, whilst retaining a blind spot for the obvious contribution
that the Wikis can make to such improvement efforts. I encourage
people to use wiki.python.org a lot more, should they be looking to
improve the wealth of information provided by the community.

Paul


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Thu Aug 13 10:47:56 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 07:47:56 -0700
Subject: what is it,
	that I don't understand about python and lazy evaluation?
In-Reply-To: <46ae62fe0908130232x22241399pdf7a845d9d142962@mail.gmail.com>
References: <46ae62fe0908130232x22241399pdf7a845d9d142962@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A84279C.2030504@stoneleaf.us>

Erik Bernoth wrote:
> Hi List,
> 
> look at the following code:
> 
> def evens():
>     # iterator returning even numbers
>     i = 0
>     while True:
>         yield i
>         i += 2
> 
> # now get all the even numbers up to 15
> L = [n for n in evens() if n < 15]
> 
> Isn't it strange, that this code runs (in a lazy language) for eternity? 
> I would expect python to to spit out (in no time):
>  >> L
> [0, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14]
> 
> after 14 it is not nessesary to evaluate evens() any further.
> 
> I really started to ask myself if python really is lazy, but everything 
> else I wrote in lazy style still worked. Example:
>  >> def test(txt, retval):
> ..    print(txt)
> ..    return retval
> ..
>  >>> test(1, True) or test(2, True)
> 1
> True
>  >>> test(1, True) and test(2, True)
> 1
> 2
> True
> 
> 
> Can anybody explain what happens with evens()?
> 
> best regards
> Erik Bernoth
> 
> PS: The code comes from a list post from 2006. You find it here: 
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2006-November/585783.html
> 

As MRAB pointed out, the issue is not with evens, it's with the list 
comprehension.  The list comprehension doesn't know when to stop, only 
which numbers to include.

~Ethan~


From jschwab at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 11:01:20 2009
From: jschwab at gmail.com (jschwab)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 08:01:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Format Code Repeat Counts?
References: 
Message-ID: 

Thanks all! That was most helpful and informative.

Best,
Josiah


From Samnsparky at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 11:30:55 2009
From: Samnsparky at gmail.com (Sparky)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 08:30:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Tkinter Menu in Frame
Message-ID: <37d94fb6-5afd-4a9e-a45b-49c08776cd82@r18g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

Hello! I am trying to figure out if it is possible to place a Tkinter
menu within a frame. This would be instead of having the menu-bar at
the top of the window.

Thanks,
Sam


From davea at ieee.org  Thu Aug 13 11:34:23 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 11:34:23 -0400
Subject: what is it,	that I don't understand about python and lazy
	evaluation?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <46ae62fe0908130232x22241399pdf7a845d9d142962@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <4A84327F.6040006@ieee.org>



Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Erik Bernoth  googlemail.com> writes:
>   
>> Isn't it strange, that this code runs (in a lazy language) for eternity?
>>     
>
> Python is a not a lazy language.
> `and` and `or` are particular, they are language constructs (*), not operators,
> that's why they can decide whether or not to evaluate their second term. It's a
> feature, but this feature is not general to Python.
>
> (*) by this I mean they have similar status as, for example, `if` and `else`
>
>
>
>   
Agreed.

In fact, I don't know of any aspect of Python which I'd call lazy, 
although the word appears in the docs in a few places.  I've seen, but 
not used, languages which had lazy evaluations.  Simplest example would 
be an infinite precision math package, where the actual precision is not 
actually used till something external to the program got visibility to 
the value.  So the constant PI might really be a generator, which would 
generate enough precision for whatever the value was being used for.  If 
you did a free-form print of PI, the console would never terminate (in 
principle), but in practice, it'd get slower and slower printing out the 
digits till the machine ran out of memory, or the user lost patience.

Python, on the other hand has at least three short-circuit operations, 
in which parts of the expression are defined not to be evaluated at all, 
if other parts meet certain conditions.  These are the 'and' and 'or' 
keywords mentioned above, the chained comparison construct, and the 
conditional expression, added recently.  In each of these, the semantics 
of the language require that those parts not be evaluated.
                val =  (42 < x < function())
                val =  19 if i<12 else function()
                val =  x  or  function()

In each example, the function() may or may not be actually called, 
depending on the other values of the expression.

DaveA



From marduk at letterboxes.org  Thu Aug 13 11:42:42 2009
From: marduk at letterboxes.org (Albert Hopkins)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 11:42:42 -0400
Subject: loops for ffmpeg CLI in python
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <1250178162.16478.0.camel@brotherus.corp.redhat.com>

On Wed, 2009-08-12 at 11:29 +0200, fakhar Gillani wrote:
>  
> Hi,
>  
> I am a begineer in Python. Actually I am encoding video files with
> different bitrates using ffmpeg CLI. I wanted to ask you that how can
> I make loops so that I can vary the bitrates in the CLI of ffmpeg??
>  
> I want to bulid a loop for the command below where i just want to vary
> the -vb parameter i.e. 10M. 
>  
> ffmpeg.exe -i sample.avi -y -f h264 -vb 10M -r 25
> encoded_1000_0-05.h264
>  
> I have tried to make simple loops but it doest work:(
>  
> Can anyone here help me out?

It might help if you specify what you tried and why it didn't work (for
you).

-a




From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Aug 13 11:45:31 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 16:45:31 +0100
Subject: Python configuration question when python scripts are executed
	using Appweb as web server.
In-Reply-To: 
References: 				
	
Message-ID: 

Gabriel Genellina wrote:
[snip]
>> Here are couple of links that discusses setting PYTHONPATH environment
>> variable.
>> http://docs.python.org/using/windows.html
> 
> Ouch, that document should be reworked and updated!
I don't understand this comment, given that the PEP370 Implementation 
section 2nd paragraph quite specifically refers to the use of 
PYTHONPATH, I quote. "The user site directory is added before the system 
site directories but after Python's search paths and PYTHONPATH. This 
setup allows the user to install a different version of a package than 
the system administrator but it prevents the user from accidently 
overwriting a stdlib module. Stdlib modules can still be overwritten 
with PYTHONPATH."  What am I missing?
> 
>> http://www.daimi.au.dk/~chili/PBI/pythonpath.html
> 
[snip]

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From e.kroske at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 11:50:47 2009
From: e.kroske at gmail.com (Evan Kroske)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 11:50:47 -0400
Subject: Delegate attribute requests to object
Message-ID: <1a78d23f0908130850v3f013b37rd1a7bce23041eedc@mail.gmail.com>

I'm trying to use the decorator pattern in a program I'm developing. I want
to create a decorator object that works like the object it's decorating
except for a few functions. However, I'd rather not hard-code all the
identical functionality from the decorated object into the decorator object.
Is there a way I can intercept all the attribute and function requests for
the decorator and delegate them to the decorated object? Here's some example
code:

class Decorator:
>   def __init__():
>    self.decorated = Decorated()
>
>  def newFunction():
>    # Do something
>    pass
>
>  def interceptRequests(request):
>    return self.decorated.request()
>
> class Decorated:
>  def __init__():
>    self.variable = 10
>
>  def oldFunction():
>    # Do something
>    pass


I want to be able to do something like this:

objectA = Decorator()
> objectB = Decorated()
> assert objectA.oldFunction() == objectB.oldFunction() # No error
>

Is it possible (without inheritance)?

--
Evan Kroske
http://welcome2obscurity.blogspot.com/
The code, comments, and challenges of a novice
software developer desperate for attention.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

From davea at ieee.org  Thu Aug 13 11:52:45 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 11:52:45 -0400
Subject: How to launch a function at regular time intervals ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	
	
Message-ID: <4A8436CD.9040308@ieee.org>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2009-08-13, Dave Angel  wrote:
>
>   
>> I'm assuming you want to call it every time_interval seconds, on 
>> average, with a little jitter allowed on each call, but keeping correct 
>> long term.  In other words, if one call is a little late, you want the 
>> next one to still happen as close to on-time as possible.
>>
>> The general outline is something like (untested):
>>
>> times_called = 0           #number of times function has been called
>> start_time = now
>> while True:
>>      elapsed = now - start_time
>>      int_elapsed = int(elapsed/time_interval)
>>      for times_called in range(times_called, int_elapsed):
>>                     call_the_function()
>>      sleep(time_interval/10)           #this might give us 10% jitter, which is usually fine
>>     
>
> I don't understand the reasoning behind the above loop --
> specifically the sleeping of smaller intervals than needed.
>
> Why not something like this:
>
>     interval = 5.0  # interval in seconds
>     next = time.time()
>
>     while True:
>         now = time.time()
>         if now < next:      
>             time.sleep(now-next)
>         print "call_the_function()"
>         next += interval
>
> That will be accurate over the long term with minimal jitter.
>
>       
>
>   
Two reasons I didn't take an approach like that one.

1) I frequently need to do something else while waiting, so I tend to do 
multiple smaller sleeps.  As long as each sleep is at least 100ms, the 
overhead cost is pretty small.
2) If (occasionally) the function takes longer than the specified 
interval time, my approach does catch-up calls so the average remains 
the same.

My loop was only a rough outline, and if neither of these considerations 
applies, yours is much nicer.

DaveA


From gordon at panix.com  Thu Aug 13 12:00:40 2009
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 16:00:40 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Interface to Exchange Calendar via web services
Message-ID: 

I have a python app that needs to look up a person's Exchage Calendar
entries to see if they are currently available.

Does anyone have any code examples for communicating with EWS (Exchange
Web Services)?  I've found some code in Java and CSharp to do this, but
none in python so far.

Thanks!

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 12:07:41 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:07:41 -0700
Subject: Delegate attribute requests to object
In-Reply-To: <1a78d23f0908130850v3f013b37rd1a7bce23041eedc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1a78d23f0908130850v3f013b37rd1a7bce23041eedc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something, but I don't think that's really  
typical decorator behavior? Typically decorators, as I understand them,  
take an instance argument -- so you wouldn't be saying

	def __init__(self):
		self.decorated = Decorated()

you'd be saying

	def __init__(self, decorated):
		self.decorated = decorated

As for the attribute access, I believe you can override __getattr__ to do  
what you want:

> class Decorator:
> [snip]
> def __getattr__(self, request):
> 	return self.decorated.__getattr__(request)

The same thing should work for methods, although you may want to pass  
arguments through as well.

Is there a reason why, for this use, just making Decorator a subclass of  
Decorated (and only overriding the methods you need to be different)  
wouldn't work?

On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 08:50:47 -0700, Evan Kroske  wrote:

> I'm trying to use the decorator pattern in a program I'm developing. I  
> want
> to create a decorator object that works like the object it's decorating
> except for a few functions. However, I'd rather not hard-code all the
> identical functionality from the decorated object into the decorator  
> object.
> Is there a way I can intercept all the attribute and function requests  
> for
> the decorator and delegate them to the decorated object? Here's some  
> example
> code:
>
> class Decorator:
>>   def __init__():
>>    self.decorated = Decorated()
>>
>>  def newFunction():
>>    # Do something
>>    pass
>>
>>  def interceptRequests(request):
>>    return self.decorated.request()
>>
>> class Decorated:
>>  def __init__():
>>    self.variable = 10
>>
>>  def oldFunction():
>>    # Do something
>>    pass
>
>
> I want to be able to do something like this:
>
> objectA = Decorator()
>> objectB = Decorated()
>> assert objectA.oldFunction() == objectB.oldFunction() # No error
>>
>
> Is it possible (without inheritance)?
>
> --
> Evan Kroske
> http://welcome2obscurity.blogspot.com/
> The code, comments, and challenges of a novice
> software developer desperate for attention.



-- 
Rami Chowdhury
"Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --  
Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Thu Aug 13 12:22:23 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:22:23 -0700
Subject: what is it,
	that I don't understand about python and lazy evaluation?
In-Reply-To: <4A84279C.2030504@stoneleaf.us>
References: <46ae62fe0908130232x22241399pdf7a845d9d142962@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A84279C.2030504@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <4A843DBF.6050808@stoneleaf.us>

Ethan Furman wrote:
> Erik Bernoth wrote:
> 
>> Hi List,
>>
>> look at the following code:
>>
>> def evens():
>>     # iterator returning even numbers
>>     i = 0
>>     while True:
>>         yield i
>>         i += 2
>>
>> # now get all the even numbers up to 15
>> L = [n for n in evens() if n < 15]
>>
>> Isn't it strange, that this code runs (in a lazy language) for 
>> eternity? I would expect python to to spit out (in no time):
>>  >> L
>> [0, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14]
>>
>> after 14 it is not nessesary to evaluate evens() any further.
>>
>> I really started to ask myself if python really is lazy, but 
>> everything else I wrote in lazy style still worked. Example:
>>  >> def test(txt, retval):
>> ..    print(txt)
>> ..    return retval
>> ..
>>  >>> test(1, True) or test(2, True)
>> 1
>> True
>>  >>> test(1, True) and test(2, True)
>> 1
>> 2
>> True
>>
>>
>> Can anybody explain what happens with evens()?
>>
>> best regards
>> Erik Bernoth
>>
>> PS: The code comes from a list post from 2006. You find it here: 
>> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2006-November/585783.html
>>
> 
> As MRAB pointed out, the issue is not with evens, it's with the list 
> comprehension.  The list comprehension doesn't know when to stop, only 
> which numbers to include.
> 
> ~Ethan~
> 

Actually, I am mistaken (gasp! shock! ;).  A list comprehension will run 
until the iterator(s) it's based on end, and even() runs forever.

~Ethan~


From davigier at googlemail.com  Thu Aug 13 12:25:58 2009
From: davigier at googlemail.com (David)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:25:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to launch a function at regular time intervals ?
References: 
	
	 
	
Message-ID: <6ebb8c71-870c-4233-a256-a4061a1ab530@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

Thanks all for your answers. As suggested by Dave and Frank, I am
indeed looking for the main program to continue running in the
background (I have several functions I want to launch, each at a
predefined time interval). I like Frank's solution, on the paper it
seems it would do what I am looking for, but I cannot succeed in
having it working. I guess I've been stuck with this problem for too
long and can't succeed in using my brain accurately anymore... ;-)

I defined the class as defined by Frank, and I then inserted the
following code in a While True loop, without any other code (the idea
is just to test Frank's solution before really using it in my
program):

    func = MyFunction()
    func.start()

    func.stop()
    func.join()

However I'm not getting the expected behavior. It's not taking into
account the 30 sec wait, the function is called again and again
without any time interval... Any idea ?

Again, thanks a lot.



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Aug 13 12:33:55 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 13 Aug 2009 16:33:55 GMT
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	
	<65053f02-0e64-4070-90c8-e04394be90ad@d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <029430d5$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 20:23:27 -0700, rurpy wrote:

>> That's no different from *any* major refactoring. The exact same
>> problem exists for code as well as documentation. It's a solved problem
>> for code, and it's a solved problem for documentation.
> 
> Huh?  I don't buy this at all.  Code refactoring doesn't change the
> semantics of the program at all -- it simplifies the code that
> implements behavior without changing behavior.  How does this apply to
> revising documentation?  

My apologies, I mis-wrote. Of course refactoring is inappropriate in this 
context. What I meant was a major redesign where the API may change.

Except of course that documentation changes don't need to be concerned 
with backwards compatibility, except possibly to avoid breaking old links.


[...]
>> Yes it would. Most patches are ignored, because the dev team are
>> overworked, and if they don't see the need for a patch, they won't
>> approve it.
> 
> I'm confused.  If they weren't overworked, then they would approve
> patches they didn't see a need for?  

No.

If they're overworked, they're less likely to spend time investigating 
patches which aren't immediately obvious that they're needed.

And additionally, if the patch doesn't appear to be useful, it's unlikely 
to be approved. Why would it be?


> Or are you saying because they are
> overworked they fail to approve patches that should be approved?

Invariably there will be good patches missed because they haven't been 
noticed.


> I am
> not sure how either supports the argument that the tracker is the best
> method of improving the docs.

These are not arguments in favour of the tracker, these are realistic 
issues that any project of non-trivial size have to deal with. Virtually 
every project (not just software projects either) have to deal with the 
fact that there will be more things to do than resources to do them with.


[...]
>> No, submitting a tracker issue is a necessary but not sufficient step.
>> Without a tracker issue, you're very unlikely to have people agree to
>> replace the existing docs with your docs, although a PEP would probably
>> do it. (A PEP is significantly more effort than raising a tracker
>> issue.)
> 
> Has there ever been a PEP for a doc change?  Are you making a serious
> suggestion?

I don't know if there ever has been, but as far as I know, there are two 
ways to get changes approved to Python: informal approval by somebody 
with check-in privileges, or formal approval on the basis of a PEP. If 
you can't get the first, then the second is an option, albeit unlikely.



>>> As long as every "the docs
>>> sux" complaint is met here with the standard responses that I've
>>> mentioned,
>>
>> But they aren't met with such a so-called "standard response".
> 
> I just looked through the first 70 or so messages in this thread and in
> this case I have agree with you, most of the responses were not what I
> called "standard responses".  There was one guy, a Steven D'Aprano early
> on that trotted out the, "it's free software, fix it if you don't like
> it" line, 

And I stand by it. If you're not helping to solve the problem, then what 
exactly are you doing?

Even if you can't provide a patch, provide a bug report. What 
specifically is wrong with the docs? Be specific. Give examples. Explain 
why it is wrong. State your assumptions, e.g. what audience do you 
represent?

If you do these things, you're helping. If you're just complaining, then 
you're not.


>> We know that there are problems. We've said repeatedly that corrections
>> and patches are welcome. We've repeatedly told you how to communicate
>> your answer to the question of what should be done. None of this is
>> good enough for you. I don't know what else you expect.
> 
> You have been told repeatedly why your insistence that the tracker must
> be the only channel, is wrong.  I don't understand why you can't
> understand that.
> 
> (Generally only those in authority, bosses, parents, police, and the
> like, "tell" others what a situation is and have a right to demand that
> the subject accept it without question. I think you could find a more
> respectful and less authoritarian way of phrasing what you said above
> since you are not in a position of authority over me.)

"You're not my real dad!!!"

In the words of Jesse "The Body" Venture, I'm just telling it like it is. 
The tracker is the only practical way of getting doc changes accepted, 
for those without check-in privileges or the ear of someone with them. Me 
telling you this is no more an expression of authority than me telling 
you that the USA has 50 states.

Of course I could be wrong. My understanding of the facts might be wrong, 
or I may not be in full possession of all the relevant facts. If so, I 
welcome correction.

So please tell me, what other practical ways are there for an 
unprivileged person to get the official Python docs modified?



-- 
Steven


From invalid at invalid  Thu Aug 13 12:40:06 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 11:40:06 -0500
Subject: How to launch a function at regular time intervals ?
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-13, Dave Angel  wrote:
> Grant Edwards wrote:
>> On 2009-08-13, Dave Angel  wrote:

>>> The general outline is something like (untested):
>>>
>>> times_called = 0           #number of times function has been called
>>> start_time = now
>>> while True:
>>>      elapsed = now - start_time
>>>      int_elapsed = int(elapsed/time_interval)
>>>      for times_called in range(times_called, int_elapsed):
>>>                     call_the_function()
>>>      sleep(time_interval/10)           #this might give us 10% jitter, which is usually fine
>>
>> I don't understand the reasoning behind the above loop --
>> specifically the sleeping of smaller intervals than needed.
>>
>> Why not something like this:
>>
>>     interval = 5.0  # interval in seconds
>>     next = time.time()
>>
>>     while True:
>>         now = time.time()
>>         if now < next:      
>>             time.sleep(now-next)
>>         print "call_the_function()"
>>         next += interval
>>
>> That will be accurate over the long term with minimal jitter.
>>   
> Two reasons I didn't take an approach like that one.
>
> 1) I frequently need to do something else while waiting, so I
>    tend to do multiple smaller sleeps.  As long as each sleep
>    is at least 100ms, the overhead cost is pretty small.

I guess I always use a separate thread for cases like that.

> 2) If (occasionally) the function takes longer than the
>    specified interval time, my approach does catch-up calls so
>    the average remains the same.

I'm still confused -- doesn't mine do that as well?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Are you the
                                  at               self-frying president?
                               visi.com            


From tim.arnold at sas.com  Thu Aug 13 12:57:17 2009
From: tim.arnold at sas.com (Tim Arnold)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 12:57:17 -0400
Subject: coding for multiple versions of python
Message-ID: 

Hi,
I've got a python based system that has to run on hp unix and red hat linux. 
The Python version on the HP is 2.4 and the version on the Linux box is 2.6. 
There's nothing I can do about that.

I think that means I must have two different libraries since the pyc files 
are not cross-version compatible. No problem for the libs like PIL or lxml. 
But for the part of the system I actually code every day, I'd rather not do 
dual maintenance, having two copies of my code for each platform/version.

I'm guessing I need to configure cvs to copy files to both locations 
whenever I commit. Does that sound right? Is there a better way I'm not 
thinking of?

thanks,
--Tim




From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Aug 13 12:58:52 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 13 Aug 2009 09:58:52 -0700
Subject: Database query execution times in Python?
References: 
Message-ID: 

In article ,
pwnedd   wrote:
>
>I've been writing some code using libraries based on the Python Database API
>2.0 (MySQLdb & pg), and so far things are working really well. There is one
>thing that I have not been able to figure out how to do, however: 
>
>Retrieve the time is took a given query to execute.

Look up EXPLAIN
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"...string iteration isn't about treating strings as sequences of strings, 
it's about treating strings as sequences of characters.  The fact that
characters are also strings is the reason we have problems, but characters 
are strings for other good reasons."  --Aahz


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Aug 13 13:04:54 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 13 Aug 2009 10:04:54 -0700
Subject: httplib incredibly slow :-(
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
Chris Withers   wrote:
>Aahz wrote:
>> In article ,
>> Chris Withers   wrote:
>>>
>>> Does anyone know of an alternative library for creating http requests 
>>> and getting their responses that's faster but hopefully has a similar 
>>> interface?
>> 
>> PyCurl
>
>This seems to be a wrapper around libcurl.
>Does it work on Windows?

Yes.

>If so, where can I find some decent examples?
>(the ones listed on the pycurl website are not what I'd call decent :-S)

Sorry, I mostly have been working on our Mac port, so I'm not sure what's
needed to make this work on Windows.  Did you try downloading the PyCurl
binary?  Maybe it statically links libcurl on Windows.

What do you need to know for a decent example?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"...string iteration isn't about treating strings as sequences of strings, 
it's about treating strings as sequences of characters.  The fact that
characters are also strings is the reason we have problems, but characters 
are strings for other good reasons."  --Aahz


From rays at blue-cove.com  Thu Aug 13 13:13:54 2009
From: rays at blue-cove.com (RJ)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 10:13:54 -0700
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
In-Reply-To: <029430d5$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	
	<65053f02-0e64-4070-90c8-e04394be90ad@d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<029430d5$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20090813100638.04a00478@blue-cove.com>

A basic question in this thread is: Who will host the 
doc-wiki/whatever and how will it be linked to?
If not hosted at python.org it can still be linked to from their 
docs, if allowed, possibly with 3rd level domain and re-direct.
I host a number of commercial servers but I don't expect Guido to 
bless them with said links.
If hosted at python.org it will require resources from the existing admins.
If elsewhere then trusted admins and organization.
If not linked to from python.org then it may well expire from lack of 
interest, as other seemingly nice attempts did.

Ray Schumacher





From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Aug 13 13:16:21 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 18:16:21 +0100
Subject: How to launch a function at regular time intervals ?
In-Reply-To: <6ebb8c71-870c-4233-a256-a4061a1ab530@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: 		
	
	<6ebb8c71-870c-4233-a256-a4061a1ab530@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A844A65.7080906@mrabarnett.plus.com>

David wrote:
> Thanks all for your answers. As suggested by Dave and Frank, I am
> indeed looking for the main program to continue running in the
> background (I have several functions I want to launch, each at a
> predefined time interval). I like Frank's solution, on the paper it
> seems it would do what I am looking for, but I cannot succeed in
> having it working. I guess I've been stuck with this problem for too
> long and can't succeed in using my brain accurately anymore... ;-)
> 
> I defined the class as defined by Frank, and I then inserted the
> following code in a While True loop, without any other code (the idea
> is just to test Frank's solution before really using it in my
> program):
> 
>     func = MyFunction()
>     func.start()
> 
>     func.stop()
>     func.join()
> 
> However I'm not getting the expected behavior. It's not taking into
> account the 30 sec wait, the function is called again and again
> without any time interval... Any idea ?
> 
> Again, thanks a lot.
> 
What exactly do you mean by "I then inserted the following code in a
While True loop"? Do you mean you put all four lines in it? If yes,
then you're repeatedly starting then stopping the function.


From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 13:18:05 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 10:18:05 -0700
Subject: Delegate attribute requests to object
In-Reply-To: <1a78d23f0908131013x25feee2fwe6b907045e87b6f5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1a78d23f0908130850v3f013b37rd1a7bce23041eedc@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<1a78d23f0908131013x25feee2fwe6b907045e87b6f5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

More information at  
http://www.python.org/doc/2.5.2/ref/attribute-access.html if you need it  
:-)

On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 10:13:47 -0700, Evan Kroske  wrote:

> I don't want to inherit from the classes I'm decorating because they  
> have a
> common superclass. I can make a generic decorator that I can use on all  
> its
> sibling classes. I'll try your getattr method to see if it works.
>
> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Rami Chowdhury
> wrote:
>
>> Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something, but I don't think that's really
>> typical decorator behavior? Typically decorators, as I understand them,  
>> take
>> an instance argument -- so you wouldn't be saying
>>
>>        def __init__(self):
>>                self.decorated = Decorated()
>>
>> you'd be saying
>>
>>        def __init__(self, decorated):
>>                self.decorated = decorated
>>
>> As for the attribute access, I believe you can override __getattr__ to  
>> do
>> what you want:
>>
>>  class Decorator:
>>> [snip]
>>> def __getattr__(self, request):
>>>        return self.decorated.__getattr__(request)
>>>
>>
>> The same thing should work for methods, although you may want to pass
>> arguments through as well.
>>
>> Is there a reason why, for this use, just making Decorator a subclass of
>> Decorated (and only overriding the methods you need to be different)
>> wouldn't work?
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 08:50:47 -0700, Evan Kroske 
>> wrote:
>>
>>  I'm trying to use the decorator pattern in a program I'm developing. I
>>> want
>>> to create a decorator object that works like the object it's decorating
>>> except for a few functions. However, I'd rather not hard-code all the
>>> identical functionality from the decorated object into the decorator
>>> object.
>>> Is there a way I can intercept all the attribute and function requests  
>>> for
>>> the decorator and delegate them to the decorated object? Here's some
>>> example
>>> code:
>>>
>>> class Decorator:
>>>
>>>>  def __init__():
>>>>   self.decorated = Decorated()
>>>>
>>>>  def newFunction():
>>>>   # Do something
>>>>   pass
>>>>
>>>>  def interceptRequests(request):
>>>>   return self.decorated.request()
>>>>
>>>> class Decorated:
>>>>  def __init__():
>>>>   self.variable = 10
>>>>
>>>>  def oldFunction():
>>>>   # Do something
>>>>   pass
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I want to be able to do something like this:
>>>
>>> objectA = Decorator()
>>>
>>>> objectB = Decorated()
>>>> assert objectA.oldFunction() == objectB.oldFunction() # No error
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Is it possible (without inheritance)?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Evan Kroske
>>> http://welcome2obscurity.blogspot.com/
>>> The code, comments, and challenges of a novice
>>> software developer desperate for attention.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Rami Chowdhury
>> "Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --
>> Hanlon's Razor
>> 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)
>>
>
>
>



-- 
Rami Chowdhury
"Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --  
Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)


From webcokies at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 13 13:52:46 2009
From: webcokies at yahoo.com (Joni Lee)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 10:52:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Help newbie with how to call a source command
Message-ID: <901009.79843.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi all,
?
I'm landing here because I need some help that I couldn't get through it.
Question 1. 
I want to call a source command from python script. It will source some?variables enviroment for further commands. I tried the following which did not work
os.sys('source '+source_text)
call(['source',source_text], shell=True)
commands.getoutput('source '+source_text)
?
Anyone have experiences with this? Because I'm very new to this world so a details reply is really appreciated!!! thank you very much
?
Question 2.
I call a shell command from python, this time it runs a script which runs some ruby scripts. And the error returns: "ruby: command not found"
?
Thank you again


      
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From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Aug 13 14:12:07 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 13 Aug 2009 11:12:07 -0700
Subject: How to address a global variable in a function
References: <82c2f2e7-ed3e-482b-9318-d5539a2a9da8@y10g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

In article <82c2f2e7-ed3e-482b-9318-d5539a2a9da8 at y10g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
n179911   wrote:
>
>I have a global variable
>
>// line 8
>tx  = 0
>
>and then I have this function (start in line 12):
>def handleTranslate(result):
>	print line
>	txStr, tyStr = result.group(1), result.group(2)
>	print txStr, tyStr
>
>	tx += int(txStr)
>	ty += int(tyStr)
>
>	return

BTW, you probably want to learn why global names are a bad idea, I don't
have time to explain that here (or point you at references).  Going
through some of the online tutorials should address this.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"...string iteration isn't about treating strings as sequences of strings, 
it's about treating strings as sequences of characters.  The fact that
characters are also strings is the reason we have problems, but characters 
are strings for other good reasons."  --Aahz


From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 14:29:04 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 11:29:04 -0700
Subject: Delegate attribute requests to object
In-Reply-To: <1a78d23f0908131100p75520be4oe7572aae00bf2f13@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1a78d23f0908130850v3f013b37rd1a7bce23041eedc@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<1a78d23f0908131013x25feee2fwe6b907045e87b6f5@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<1a78d23f0908131100p75520be4oe7572aae00bf2f13@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

Oops, my apologies, it's the __getattribute__ method you want to call on  
self.decorated (because __getattr__ won't be there unless you define it  
specifically)

So it should go:

def __getattr__(self, request):
	return self.decorated.__getattribute__(request)



On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 11:00:28 -0700, Evan Kroske  wrote:

> Unfortunately, __getattr__ didn't work. When I try to use your code
>
> class Decorator:
>> [snip]
>> def __getattr__(self, request):
>>        return self.decorated.__getattr__(request)
>>
>
> I get this error:
>
> AttributeError: 'Decorated' object has no attribute '__getattr__'
>>
>
> Is that a private method, or am I simply using it wrong? Thanks for the
> help.
>
> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 1:18 PM, Rami Chowdhury  
> wrote:
>
>> More information at
>> http://www.python.org/doc/2.5.2/ref/attribute-access.html if you need it
>> :-)
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 10:13:47 -0700, Evan Kroske 
>> wrote:
>>
>>  I don't want to inherit from the classes I'm decorating because they  
>> have
>>> a
>>> common superclass. I can make a generic decorator that I can use on all
>>> its
>>> sibling classes. I'll try your getattr method to see if it works.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Rami Chowdhury
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>  Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something, but I don't think that's  
>>> really
>>>> typical decorator behavior? Typically decorators, as I understand  
>>>> them,
>>>> take
>>>> an instance argument -- so you wouldn't be saying
>>>>
>>>>       def __init__(self):
>>>>               self.decorated = Decorated()
>>>>
>>>> you'd be saying
>>>>
>>>>       def __init__(self, decorated):
>>>>               self.decorated = decorated
>>>>
>>>> As for the attribute access, I believe you can override __getattr__  
>>>> to do
>>>> what you want:
>>>>
>>>>  class Decorator:
>>>>
>>>>> [snip]
>>>>> def __getattr__(self, request):
>>>>>       return self.decorated.__getattr__(request)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> The same thing should work for methods, although you may want to pass
>>>> arguments through as well.
>>>>
>>>> Is there a reason why, for this use, just making Decorator a subclass  
>>>> of
>>>> Decorated (and only overriding the methods you need to be different)
>>>> wouldn't work?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 08:50:47 -0700, Evan Kroske 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  I'm trying to use the decorator pattern in a program I'm developing.  
>>>> I
>>>>
>>>>> want
>>>>> to create a decorator object that works like the object it's  
>>>>> decorating
>>>>> except for a few functions. However, I'd rather not hard-code all the
>>>>> identical functionality from the decorated object into the decorator
>>>>> object.
>>>>> Is there a way I can intercept all the attribute and function  
>>>>> requests
>>>>> for
>>>>> the decorator and delegate them to the decorated object? Here's some
>>>>> example
>>>>> code:
>>>>>
>>>>> class Decorator:
>>>>>
>>>>>   def __init__():
>>>>>>  self.decorated = Decorated()
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  def newFunction():
>>>>>>  # Do something
>>>>>>  pass
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  def interceptRequests(request):
>>>>>>  return self.decorated.request()
>>>>>>
>>>>>> class Decorated:
>>>>>>  def __init__():
>>>>>>  self.variable = 10
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  def oldFunction():
>>>>>>  # Do something
>>>>>>  pass
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I want to be able to do something like this:
>>>>>
>>>>> objectA = Decorator()
>>>>>
>>>>>  objectB = Decorated()
>>>>>> assert objectA.oldFunction() == objectB.oldFunction() # No error
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Is it possible (without inheritance)?
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Evan Kroske
>>>>> http://welcome2obscurity.blogspot.com/
>>>>> The code, comments, and challenges of a novice
>>>>> software developer desperate for attention.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Rami Chowdhury
>>>> "Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity"  
>>>> --
>>>> Hanlon's Razor
>>>> 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Rami Chowdhury
>> "Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --
>> Hanlon's Razor
>> 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)
>>
>
>
>



-- 
Rami Chowdhury
"Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --  
Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)


From jura.grozni at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 14:56:49 2009
From: jura.grozni at gmail.com (azrael)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 11:56:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: i Don't get why it makes trouble
Message-ID: <5ddbbf79-a448-4cb0-96e8-427ab8160a78@q23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

>>> j
[u'Tata', u'Oriovac', u'PrimorskoGoranska', u'hrvatska', u'Kuna']
>>> len(j)
5
>>> h = """SELECT distinct u.id_ulica, o.id_opcina, z.id_zupanija, d.id_drzava, v.id_valuta FROM   ulica as u, opcina as o, zupanija as z, drzava as d, valuta as v  WHERE  u.naziv = '%s' AND o.naziv = '%s' AND z.naziv = '%s' AND d.naziv = '%s' AND v.naziv = '%s'""" % (j)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
TypeError: not enough arguments for format string


I want to format the string. the list has five elements and the string
has five placeholder but it wont format the string


From lkcl at lkcl.net  Thu Aug 13 15:01:41 2009
From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 19:01:41 +0000
Subject: [ANN] pyjamas 0.6pre3 released
Message-ID: 

much as we'd very much like to declare a 0.6 stable release, really
really soon and move forward, the ChangeLog just keeps growing (133
and counting) with the bugfixes, testing and contributions since
0.5p1.

pyjamas is a port of GWT to python, and includes a
python-to-javascript compiler and a widget UI toolkit that is similar
to pyqt4, pygtk2 etc.  applications can either be run as javascript
(in a web browser) or on the desktop (using pyjamas-desktop) as
python.  conceptually therefore, pyjamas is similar to adobe AIR -
except that it's python, not ActionScript, and it's entirely free
software.  hurrah!

key changes:

* the python-to-javascript has been significantly reworked, and now
includes a --strict option which adds "python strict" features at the
expense of speed.  to disable these, and obtain speed instead, use
"-O"

* pyjamas-desktop has been merged into the pyjamas distribution, which
includes support for one stable browser engine (XULrunner, the same
engine behind firefox); pywebkitgtk (the engine behind safari and the
iphone) and MSHTML (IE's engine).  pywebkitgtk is useable (but
unfriendly - no DOM exception handling); MSHTML is even less friendly
- COM gets in the way at present, and eats even python exceptions).

there's a lot more that could be said, but you've probably noticed all
the other prerelease notices so 'nuff said, other than: thank you to
the people who've been helping and contributing with testing, patches
and more.

downloads and more information:

http://pypi.python.org/pypi/Pyjamas
http://sf.net/projects/pyjamas
http://code.google.com/p/pyjamas
http://pyjs.org


From pfeldman at verizon.net  Thu Aug 13 15:05:26 2009
From: pfeldman at verizon.net (Dr. Phillip M. Feldman)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 12:05:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: trouble with reload
Message-ID: <24956946.post@talk.nabble.com>


According to the Python documentation, 'reload' reloads a previously imported
module (so that changes made via an external editor will be effective). 
But, when I try to use this command, I get the following error message:

TypeError: reload() argument must be module

Any suggestions will be appreciated.
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/trouble-with-reload-tp24956946p24956946.html
Sent from the Python - python-list mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Thu Aug 13 15:06:47 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 21:06:47 +0200
Subject: i Don't get why it makes trouble
In-Reply-To: <5ddbbf79-a448-4cb0-96e8-427ab8160a78@q23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <5ddbbf79-a448-4cb0-96e8-427ab8160a78@q23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

13-08-2009 azrael  wrote:

>>>> j
> [u'Tata', u'Oriovac', u'PrimorskoGoranska', u'hrvatska', u'Kuna']
>>>> len(j)
> 5
>>>> h = """SELECT distinct u.id_ulica, o.id_opcina, z.id_zupanija,  
>>>> d.id_drzava, v.id_valuta FROM   ulica as u, opcina as o, zupanija as  
>>>> z, drzava as d, valuta as v  WHERE  u.naziv = '%s' AND o.naziv = '%s'  
>>>> AND z.naziv = '%s' AND d.naziv = '%s' AND v.naziv = '%s'""" % (j)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "", line 1, in 
> TypeError: not enough arguments for format string
>
>
> I want to format the string. the list has five elements and the string
> has five placeholder but it wont format the string

j must be a tuple -- so either define it as

     (u'Tata', u'Oriovac', u'PrimorskoGoranska', u'hrvatska', u'Kuna')

or when using it, wrap it with tuple() constructor:

     h = """...........""" % tuple(j)

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 15:07:36 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 12:07:36 -0700
Subject: trouble with reload
In-Reply-To: <24956946.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <24956946.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: 

Could you please clarify how you're calling it? E.g.
	reload('foo')
or
	reload(foo)

?

On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 12:05:26 -0700, Dr. Phillip M. Feldman  
 wrote:

> According to the Python documentation, 'reload' reloads a previously  
> imported
> module (so that changes made via an external editor will be effective).
> But, when I try to use this command, I get the following error message:
>
> TypeError: reload() argument must be module
>
> Any suggestions will be appreciated.



-- 
Rami Chowdhury
"Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --  
Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Thu Aug 13 15:12:50 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 21:12:50 +0200
Subject: i Don't get why it makes trouble
In-Reply-To: 
References: <5ddbbf79-a448-4cb0-96e8-427ab8160a78@q23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Me wrote:

> 13-08-2009 azrael  wrote:
>
>>>>> j
>> [u'Tata', u'Oriovac', u'PrimorskoGoranska', u'hrvatska', u'Kuna']
>>>>> len(j)
>> 5
>>>>> h = """SELECT distinct u.id_ulica, o.id_opcina, z.id_zupanija,  
>>>>> d.id_drzava, v.id_valuta FROM   ulica as u, opcina as o, zupanija as  
>>>>> z, drzava as d, valuta as v  WHERE  u.naziv = '%s' AND o.naziv =  
>>>>> '%s' AND z.naziv = '%s' AND d.naziv = '%s' AND v.naziv = '%s'""" %  
>>>>> (j)
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "", line 1, in 
>> TypeError: not enough arguments for format string
>>
>>
>> I want to format the string. the list has five elements and the string
>> has five placeholder but it wont format the string
>
> j must be a tuple -- so either define it as
[snip]

PS. If you use Python 2.6 or newer, better use .format() method
(then you can use also a list):

>>> h = """SELECT distinct u.id_ulica, o.id_opcina, z.id_zupanija, \
... d.id_drzava, v.id_valuta FROM   ulica as u, opcina as o, zupanija as \
... z, drzava as d, valuta as v  WHERE  u.naziv = '{0}' AND o.naziv = \
... '{1}' AND z.naziv = '{2}' AND d.naziv = '{3}' AND v.naziv = '{4}'\
... """.format(*j)


Cheers,
*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From davea at ieee.org  Thu Aug 13 15:17:00 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 15:17:00 -0400
Subject: How to launch a function at regular time intervals ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 			
	
Message-ID: <4A8466AC.6080509@ieee.org>



Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2009-08-13, Dave Angel  wrote:
>   
>> Grant Edwards wrote:
>>     
>>> 
>>>     interval = 5.0  # interval in seconds
>>>     next = time.time()
>>>
>>>     while True:
>>>         now = time.time()
>>>         if now < next:      
>>>             time.sleep(now-next)
>>>         print "call_the_function()"
>>>         next += interval
>>>
>>> That will be accurate over the long term with minimal jitter.
>>>   
>>>       
>> 
>> 2) If (occasionally) the function takes longer than the
>>    specified interval time, my approach does catch-up calls so
>>    the average remains the same.
>>     
>
> I'm still confused -- doesn't mine do that as well?
>
>   
Yep.  I missed it again.  Clearly it does the catchup the next time 
around the while loop.

DaveA


From dullrich at sprynet.com  Thu Aug 13 15:20:13 2009
From: dullrich at sprynet.com (David C Ullrich)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:20:13 -0500
Subject: trouble with reload
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 12:05:26 -0700, Dr. Phillip M. Feldman wrote:

> According to the Python documentation, 'reload' reloads a previously
> imported module (so that changes made via an external editor will be
> effective). But, when I try to use this command, I get the following
> error message:
> 
> TypeError: reload() argument must be module

That would mean that you're trying to reload something
other than a module.

Of course you think you're reloading a module. The problem
is that... oops, since you don't show the code that leads
to this error it's hard to say what the problem is.

> Any suggestions will be appreciated.



From garrickp at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 15:21:13 2009
From: garrickp at gmail.com (Falcolas)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 12:21:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to launch a function at regular time intervals ?
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 12, 3:09?pm, David  wrote:
> Hi all, I'm trying to launch a function at regular time intervals but
> cannot find the way to do it. Here is the code I wrote (time_interval
> is a user defined variable in seconds):
> [snip]
> Has anyone run into a similar problem (and solved it) ?
>
> Thanks for your help

I did - as part of a script where I needed to send load into a system
at a steady rate. I ended up using threading to do the function calls,
since they were not guaranteed to complete before the next interval.

duration_start = time.time()
interval_counter = 0
while time.time() - duration_start < duration:
    for thread_count in xrange(numthreads):
        threading.Thread(target=exec_thread, kwargs={#snip
unimportant#}).start()
    interval_counter += 1
    time.sleep((duration_start + (interval * interval_counter)) -
time.time())

Executing this loop with a simple echo and time print showed that
there was no creep over time, and the deviation between intervals was
around 1/100th of a second.

I'm fairly sure I'm creating some gnarly memory leaks and such by not
joining spent threads, but it's been a non-issue in my usage. Adding a
list to keep track of the threads and join on complete threads would
be fairly trivial to implement.

I think for simpler applications, using threading.Timer to kick off
the function would work just as well.

~G


From jura.grozni at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 15:26:07 2009
From: jura.grozni at gmail.com (azrael)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 12:26:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: i Don't get why it makes trouble
References: <5ddbbf79-a448-4cb0-96e8-427ab8160a78@q23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <189e10f1-771a-4631-a907-56d450b5e493@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On 13 kol, 21:12, "Jan Kaliszewski"  wrote:
> Me wrote:
> > 13-08-2009 azrael  wrote:
>
> >>>>> j
> >> [u'Tata', u'Oriovac', u'PrimorskoGoranska', u'hrvatska', u'Kuna']
> >>>>> len(j)
> >> 5
> >>>>> h = """SELECT distinct u.id_ulica, o.id_opcina, z.id_zupanija, ?
> >>>>> d.id_drzava, v.id_valuta FROM ? ulica as u, opcina as o, zupanija as ?
> >>>>> z, drzava as d, valuta as v ?WHERE ?u.naziv = '%s' AND o.naziv = ?
> >>>>> '%s' AND z.naziv = '%s' AND d.naziv = '%s' AND v.naziv = '%s'""" % ?
> >>>>> (j)
> >> Traceback (most recent call last):
> >> ? File "", line 1, in 
> >> TypeError: not enough arguments for format string
>
> >> I want to format the string. the list has five elements and the string
> >> has five placeholder but it wont format the string
>
> > j must be a tuple -- so either define it as
>
> [snip]
>
> PS. If you use Python 2.6 or newer, better use .format() method
> (then you can use also a list):
>
> >>> h = """SELECT distinct u.id_ulica, o.id_opcina, z.id_zupanija, \
>
> ... d.id_drzava, v.id_valuta FROM ? ulica as u, opcina as o, zupanija as \
> ... z, drzava as d, valuta as v ?WHERE ?u.naziv = '{0}' AND o.naziv = \
> ... '{1}' AND z.naziv = '{2}' AND d.naziv = '{3}' AND v.naziv = '{4}'\
> ... """.format(*j)
>
> Cheers,
> *j
>
> --
> Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 

Thanks Worked fine for me. I was a freakin idiot. I forgot about using
a tuple. damn lists :D

Thanks for the debuginig of my thoughts and actions.

thnx


From davea at ieee.org  Thu Aug 13 15:28:02 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 15:28:02 -0400
Subject: How to launch a function at regular time intervals ?
In-Reply-To: <6ebb8c71-870c-4233-a256-a4061a1ab530@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: 		
	
	<6ebb8c71-870c-4233-a256-a4061a1ab530@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A846942.3020708@ieee.org>

David wrote:
> Thanks all for your answers. As suggested by Dave and Frank, I am
> indeed looking for the main program to continue running in the
> background (I have several functions I want to launch, each at a
> predefined time interval). I like Frank's solution, on the paper it
> seems it would do what I am looking for, but I cannot succeed in
> having it working. I guess I've been stuck with this problem for too
> long and can't succeed in using my brain accurately anymore... ;-)
>
> I defined the class as defined by Frank, and I then inserted the
> following code in a While True loop, without any other code (the idea
> is just to test Frank's solution before really using it in my
> program):
>
>     func = MyFunction()
>     func.start()
>
>     func.stop()
>     func.join()
>
> However I'm not getting the expected behavior. It's not taking into
> account the 30 sec wait, the function is called again and again
> without any time interval... Any idea ?
>
> Again, thanks a lot.
>
>
>   
Why don't you include the code you're actually trying, instead of just 
trying to describe it.  Frank's class didn't call any function, it just 
had a place to do it.  So we really don't know what you're running, nor 
what about it is wrong.

Perhaps a few well placed print statements?

DaveA


From ebonak at hotmail.com  Thu Aug 13 15:28:44 2009
From: ebonak at hotmail.com (Esmail)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 15:28:44 -0400
Subject: get output of du / ls command - currently ugly code ...
Message-ID: 

Hi all,

Essentially all I want to know the size of a directory, and the size
of a zipped tarball so that I can compute/report the compression ratio.

The code I have seems hideous, but it seems to work. Surely there is an
easier,more elegant way to do this?

     dir_size = os.popen('du -sk somename')
     data = dir_size.readlines()
     dir_size = int(data[0].split()[0])
     print 'dir size: ', dir_size

     tar_size = os.popen('ls -s somename.tar.gz')
     data = tar_size.readlines()
     tar_size = int(data[0].split()[0])
     print 'tar size: ', tar_size

Thanks
Esmail



From rebfj at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Aug 13 15:48:18 2009
From: rebfj at yahoo.co.uk (rebfj at yahoo.co.uk)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 12:48:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: get output of du / ls command - currently ugly code ...
References: 
Message-ID: <6d501dbf-bbed-4b38-afc1-f956c9ff3ab6@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 13, 8:28?pm, Esmail  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Essentially all I want to know the size of a directory, and the size
> of a zipped tarball so that I can compute/report the compression ratio.
>
> The code I have seems hideous, but it seems to work. Surely there is an
> easier,more elegant way to do this?
>
> ? ? ?dir_size = os.popen('du -sk somename')
> ? ? ?data = dir_size.readlines()
> ? ? ?dir_size = int(data[0].split()[0])
> ? ? ?print 'dir size: ', dir_size
>
> ? ? ?tar_size = os.popen('ls -s somename.tar.gz')
> ? ? ?data = tar_size.readlines()
> ? ? ?tar_size = int(data[0].split()[0])
> ? ? ?print 'tar size: ', tar_size
>
> Thanks
> Esmail

Try using os.path.getsize(somename.tar.gz)


From davea at ieee.org  Thu Aug 13 15:48:55 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 15:48:55 -0400
Subject: Help newbie with how to call a source command
In-Reply-To: <901009.79843.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <901009.79843.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4A846E27.9090502@ieee.org>

Joni Lee wrote:
> Hi all,
>  
> I'm landing here because I need some help that I couldn't get through it.
> Question 1. 
> I want to call a source command from python script. It will source some variables enviroment for further commands. I tried the following which did not work
> os.sys('source '+source_text)
> call(['source',source_text], shell=True)
> commands.getoutput('source '+source_text)
>  
> Anyone have experiences with this? Because I'm very new to this world so a details reply is really appreciated!!! thank you very much
>  
> Question 2.
> I call a shell command from python, this time it runs a script which runs some ruby scripts. And the error returns: "ruby: command not found"
>  
> Thank you again
>
>
>   

1)  You cannot do "source" from Python.  It's a shell command whose very 
nature is to remember some environment variables for the duration of 
that particular shell. So once it returns to your python program, 
they're lost.

However, if you just need those variables for invocations of the same 
shell, you have a couple of choices.  You can parse the file yourself, 
and set up an environment dictionary, and pass that when you invoke 
subsequent shells.

Or you can build a script on the fly, prepending whatever script you're 
planning to run with that source_text file.

2) In this question, and in general, you need to specify the Python 
version, the OS environment, the particular Python code  you used to 
launch the shell, the contents of the script, and the results you saw.  
Use copy and paste, don't just paraphrase.

And in a case like this one, somebody familiar with the environment 
(Ruby on Unix?) will probably have other questions:  environment 
dictionary passed to the shell, did you get a Ruby startup prompt?  Or 
whatever.

DaveA



From philip at semanchuk.com  Thu Aug 13 16:09:04 2009
From: philip at semanchuk.com (Philip Semanchuk)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 16:09:04 -0400
Subject: i Don't get why it makes trouble
In-Reply-To: <5ddbbf79-a448-4cb0-96e8-427ab8160a78@q23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <5ddbbf79-a448-4cb0-96e8-427ab8160a78@q23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 


On Aug 13, 2009, at 2:56 PM, azrael wrote:

>>>> j
> [u'Tata', u'Oriovac', u'PrimorskoGoranska', u'hrvatska', u'Kuna']
>>>> len(j)
> 5
>>>> h = """SELECT distinct u.id_ulica, o.id_opcina, z.id_zupanija,  
>>>> d.id_drzava, v.id_valuta FROM   ulica as u, opcina as o, zupanija  
>>>> as z, drzava as d, valuta as v  WHERE  u.naziv = '%s' AND o.naziv  
>>>> = '%s' AND z.naziv = '%s' AND d.naziv = '%s' AND v.naziv =  
>>>> '%s'""" % (j)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "", line 1, in 
> TypeError: not enough arguments for format string

Hi azrael,
You already have an answer to your question so I won't address that. I  
want to point out that this is a dangerous way to build SQL statements.

For instance, what happens if someone enters a city name of L'viv?   
Your SQL will break due to mismatched single quotes. This kind of code  
is vulnerable to SQL injection attacks:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQL_injection

Parameterized SQL is safer. Googling for 'parameterized SQL Python'  
should find some examples for you.

Good luck
Philip


From ebonak at hotmail.com  Thu Aug 13 16:13:51 2009
From: ebonak at hotmail.com (Esmail)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 16:13:51 -0400
Subject: get output of du / ls command - currently ugly code ...
In-Reply-To: <6d501dbf-bbed-4b38-afc1-f956c9ff3ab6@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<6d501dbf-bbed-4b38-afc1-f956c9ff3ab6@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A8473FF.7050701@hotmail.com>

rebfj at yahoo.co.uk wrote:
> On Aug 13, 8:28 pm, Esmail  wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Essentially all I want to know the size of a directory, and the size
>> of a zipped tarball so that I can compute/report the compression ratio.
>>

>>      dir_size = os.popen('du -sk somename')
>>      data = dir_size.readlines()
>>      dir_size = int(data[0].split()[0])
>>      print 'dir size: ', dir_size
>>

Hi,

  > Try using os.path.getsize(somename.tar.gz)

Beautiful! .. that takes care of the tarball .. but it doesn't seem to
work for reporting the total size of the directory. Any suggestions how
to do that in a nicer way?

I just looked through os.path.* and there doesn't seem to be a function
to report what "du -sb" would.

Thanks for your help,

Esmail



From marduk at letterboxes.org  Thu Aug 13 16:16:29 2009
From: marduk at letterboxes.org (Albert Hopkins)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 16:16:29 -0400
Subject: get output of du / ls command - currently ugly code ...
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <1250194589.19760.4.camel@brotherus.corp.redhat.com>

On Thu, 2009-08-13 at 15:28 -0400, Esmail wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Essentially all I want to know the size of a directory, and the size
> of a zipped tarball so that I can compute/report the compression ratio.
> 
> The code I have seems hideous, but it seems to work. Surely there is an
> easier,more elegant way to do this?
> 
>      dir_size = os.popen('du -sk somename')
>      data = dir_size.readlines()
>      dir_size = int(data[0].split()[0])
>      print 'dir size: ', dir_size
> 
>      tar_size = os.popen('ls -s somename.tar.gz')
>      data = tar_size.readlines()
>      tar_size = int(data[0].split()[0])
>      print 'tar size: ', tar_size
> 

I don't know about "easier", but a more elegant way is to not use
os.popen() and to use Python's functions os.path.getsize (or os.stat)
and os.walk (or os.path.walk) to achieve this.

In fact if you look at the docstring for os.walk there is an example
that almost does what you're doing with du, but is cross-platform and
not dependent on shelling a process and scraping its stdout.

-a




From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Thu Aug 13 17:05:37 2009
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:05:37 -0400
Subject: i Don't get why it makes trouble
In-Reply-To: 
References: <5ddbbf79-a448-4cb0-96e8-427ab8160a78@q23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 4:09 PM, Philip Semanchuk wrote:

>
> On Aug 13, 2009, at 2:56 PM, azrael wrote:
>
>  j
>>>>>
>>>> [u'Tata', u'Oriovac', u'PrimorskoGoranska', u'hrvatska', u'Kuna']
>>
>>> len(j)
>>>>>
>>>> 5
>>
>>> h = """SELECT distinct u.id_ulica, o.id_opcina, z.id_zupanija,
>>>>> d.id_drzava, v.id_valuta FROM   ulica as u, opcina as o, zupanija as z,
>>>>> drzava as d, valuta as v  WHERE  u.naziv = '%s' AND o.naziv = '%s' AND
>>>>> z.naziv = '%s' AND d.naziv = '%s' AND v.naziv = '%s'""" % (j)
>>>>>
>>>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>  File "", line 1, in 
>> TypeError: not enough arguments for format string
>>
>
> Hi azrael,
> You already have an answer to your question so I won't address that. I want
> to point out that this is a dangerous way to build SQL statements.
>
> For instance, what happens if someone enters a city name of L'viv?  Your
> SQL will break due to mismatched single quotes. This kind of code is
> vulnerable to SQL injection attacks:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQL_injection
>

No explanation of SQL injection is complete without a link to the relevant
XKCD.

http://xkcd.com/327/


>
> Parameterized SQL is safer. Googling for 'parameterized SQL Python' should
> find some examples for you.
>
> Good luck
> Philip
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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From benjamin at python.org  Thu Aug 13 17:12:50 2009
From: benjamin at python.org (Benjamin Peterson)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 16:12:50 -0500
Subject: [RELEASED] Python 3.1.1 Release Candidate
Message-ID: <1afaf6160908131412i3b6f6636wc3fc166db0b9d5ce@mail.gmail.com>

On behalf of the Python development team, I'm pleased to announce the first
release candidate of Python 3.1.1.

This bug fix release fixes many normal bugs and several critical ones including
potential data corruption in the io library.  The final version should be out
within the next week.

Python 3.1 focuses on the stabilization and optimization of the features and
changes that Python 3.0 introduced.  For example, the new I/O system has been
rewritten in C for speed.  File system APIs that use unicode strings now handle
paths with undecodable bytes in them. Other features include an ordered
dictionary implementation, a condensed syntax for nested with statements, and
support for ttk Tile in Tkinter.  For a more extensive list of changes in 3.1,
see http://doc.python.org/3.1/whatsnew/3.1.html or Misc/NEWS in the Python
distribution.

To download Python 3.1.1 visit:

     http://www.python.org/download/releases/3.1/

The 3.1 documentation can be found at:

     http://docs.python.org/3.1

Bugs can always be reported to:

     http://bugs.python.org


Enjoy!

--
Benjamin Peterson
Release Manager
benjamin at python.org
(on behalf of the entire python-dev team and 3.1.1's contributors)


From petermoeller at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 17:26:54 2009
From: petermoeller at gmail.com (PeteDK)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:26:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: need help calculating point between two coordinates.
Message-ID: <2d059a29-933e-4e2c-8730-f1f2688af26c@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

Hi there

I'am working on a route comparison tool for carpools.

The route comparison is based on 'steps' retrieved from google maps
GDirection. These steps vary in length and i use the coordinates at
the beginning of each "step". However, sometimes the distance of these
steps is too long(ex. driving 30-40 km. on the freeway). Therefore i
would like to calculate/find the coordinate located in between two
given coordinates.
Lets say one step starts at:
56.043185,9.922714
and ends at:
56.234287,9.864521

I would then like to calculate the point right in the middle of these
coordinates.

I use the haversine form to calculate the distance between
coordinates, but im not sure whether or not this can be used for the
same purpose.
http://www.mpi.nl/world/persons/private ... versine.py

I apologize if this thread has been posted the wrong place:)

any help is greatly appreciated!

kind regards.

Pete


From ebonak at hotmail.com  Thu Aug 13 17:31:55 2009
From: ebonak at hotmail.com (Esmail)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:31:55 -0400
Subject: Plotting Quadratic Functions, pygame
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Hello Senad,

You might find this style guide useful too in your toolbox of
Python skills & tricks.

   http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/

This is a great and helpful group of people here, we are lucky to
have access to groups like this.

Best,

Esmail



From ebonak at hotmail.com  Thu Aug 13 17:32:34 2009
From: ebonak at hotmail.com (Esmail)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:32:34 -0400
Subject: get output of du / ls command - currently ugly code ...
In-Reply-To: <1250194589.19760.4.camel@brotherus.corp.redhat.com>
References: 
	<1250194589.19760.4.camel@brotherus.corp.redhat.com>
Message-ID: 

Albert Hopkins wrote:
> 
> I don't know about "easier", but a more elegant way is to not use
> os.popen() and to use Python's functions os.path.getsize (or os.stat)
> and os.walk (or os.path.walk) to achieve this.
> 
> In fact if you look at the docstring for os.walk there is an example
> that almost does what you're doing with du, but is cross-platform and
> not dependent on shelling a process and scraping its stdout.

Thanks Albert, I'll take a look,

Esmail



From jura.grozni at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 18:00:19 2009
From: jura.grozni at gmail.com (azrael)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 15:00:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: i Don't get why it makes trouble
References: <5ddbbf79-a448-4cb0-96e8-427ab8160a78@q23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On 13 kol, 22:09, Philip Semanchuk  wrote:
> On Aug 13, 2009, at 2:56 PM, azrael wrote:
>
> >>>> j
> > [u'Tata', u'Oriovac', u'PrimorskoGoranska', u'hrvatska', u'Kuna']
> >>>> len(j)
> > 5
> >>>> h = """SELECT distinct u.id_ulica, o.id_opcina, z.id_zupanija, ?
> >>>> d.id_drzava, v.id_valuta FROM ? ulica as u, opcina as o, zupanija ?
> >>>> as z, drzava as d, valuta as v ?WHERE ?u.naziv = '%s' AND o.naziv ?
> >>>> = '%s' AND z.naziv = '%s' AND d.naziv = '%s' AND v.naziv = ?
> >>>> '%s'""" % (j)
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> > ?File "", line 1, in 
> > TypeError: not enough arguments for format string
>
> Hi azrael,
> You already have an answer to your question so I won't address that. I ?
> want to point out that this is a dangerous way to build SQL statements.
>
> For instance, what happens if someone enters a city name of L'viv? ?
> Your SQL will break due to mismatched single quotes. This kind of code ?
> is vulnerable to SQL injection attacks:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQL_injection
>
> Parameterized SQL is safer. Googling for 'parameterized SQL Python' ?
> should find some examples for you.
>
> Good luck
> Philip

I know Already. This is sopussed to be a small office application
connecting on a LAN mysql server with no web connection. Thank you
anyway


From goldtech at worldpost.com  Thu Aug 13 18:04:35 2009
From: goldtech at worldpost.com (goldtech)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 15:04:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Idle text wrap
Message-ID: <4e59f80c-e812-4273-9ebf-2c711ae35663@b25g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I'm using Idle interactive shell. Actually Idle-Spoon which has a few
nice extensions and Python 2.6 on Linux. When I

 print str_value + "\n"

Where str_value is for example a string of 120 chars.

I notice that the lines seem to get hard wrapped at around 80. Is
there a way I can config it to either wrap to the window, or for a
higher amount before wrapping?

Thanks.


From philip at semanchuk.com  Thu Aug 13 18:14:02 2009
From: philip at semanchuk.com (Philip Semanchuk)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 18:14:02 -0400
Subject: i Don't get why it makes trouble
In-Reply-To: 
References: <5ddbbf79-a448-4cb0-96e8-427ab8160a78@q23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <59821D8E-7130-421E-84E4-72B55E339702@semanchuk.com>


On Aug 13, 2009, at 6:00 PM, azrael wrote:

> On 13 kol, 22:09, Philip Semanchuk  wrote:
>> On Aug 13, 2009, at 2:56 PM, azrael wrote:
>>
>>>>>> j
>>> [u'Tata', u'Oriovac', u'PrimorskoGoranska', u'hrvatska', u'Kuna']
>>>>>> len(j)
>>> 5
>>>>>> h = """SELECT distinct u.id_ulica, o.id_opcina, z.id_zupanija,
>>>>>> d.id_drzava, v.id_valuta FROM   ulica as u, opcina as o, zupanija
>>>>>> as z, drzava as d, valuta as v  WHERE  u.naziv = '%s' AND o.naziv
>>>>>> = '%s' AND z.naziv = '%s' AND d.naziv = '%s' AND v.naziv =
>>>>>> '%s'""" % (j)
>>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>>  File "", line 1, in 
>>> TypeError: not enough arguments for format string
>>
>> Hi azrael,
>> You already have an answer to your question so I won't address  
>> that. I
>> want to point out that this is a dangerous way to build SQL  
>> statements.
>>
>> For instance, what happens if someone enters a city name of L'viv?
>> Your SQL will break due to mismatched single quotes. This kind of  
>> code
>> is vulnerable to SQL injection attacks:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQL_injection
>>
>> Parameterized SQL is safer. Googling for 'parameterized SQL Python'
>> should find some examples for you.
>>
>> Good luck
>> Philip
>
> I know Already. This is sopussed to be a small office application
> connecting on a LAN mysql server with no web connection. Thank you
> anyway

You're welcome. I'm glad you are aware. You're ahead of a lot of  
developers out there.

I encourage you to at least think about using parameterized SQL anyway  
because you never know when someone (maybe even you!) will copy &  
paste your code, or use your library without realizing that it was  
"internal use only". It's usually just as easy as building SQL strings  
anyway.

And besides, what about L'viv? =)

Good luck with whatever choice you make
Philip






From david.mcwright at usbfmi.com  Thu Aug 13 18:17:56 2009
From: david.mcwright at usbfmi.com (dippim)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 15:17:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: implementing descriptors
Message-ID: <39aff5a5-97ec-41f7-ab26-6e4d842b9c5c@r33g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>

I am new to Python and I have a question about descriptors.  If I have
a class as written below, is there a way to use descriptors to be
certain that the datetime in start is always before the one in end?

class foo(object):
   def __init__(self,a = None,b = None)
      self.start = a
      self.end = b

from datetime import datetime
c = datetime(2009,8,13,6,15,0)
d = datetime(2009,8,14,12,0,0)
afoo = foo(c,d)

For instance, if the following code were run, I would like to instance
of foo to switch the start and end times.

afoo.start = datetime(2010,8,13,6,15,0)

I was thinking of using the __set__ descriptor to catch the assignment
and reverse the values if necessary, but I can't figure out how to
determine which values is being set.

Thanks for the help!

David


From davigier at googlemail.com  Thu Aug 13 18:52:52 2009
From: davigier at googlemail.com (David)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 15:52:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to launch a function at regular time intervals ?
References: 
	
	 
	
	<6ebb8c71-870c-4233-a256-a4061a1ab530@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <18ac9f9a-0cf2-409c-82b3-ea068f21dbf7@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On 13 ao?t, 21:28, Dave Angel  wrote:
> David wrote:
> > Thanks all for your answers. As suggested by Dave and Frank, I am
> > indeed looking for the main program to continue running in the
> > background (I have several functions I want to launch, each at a
> > predefined time interval). I like Frank's solution, on the paper it
> > seems it would do what I am looking for, but I cannot succeed in
> > having it working. I guess I've been stuck with this problem for too
> > long and can't succeed in using my brain accurately anymore... ;-)
>
> > I defined the class as defined by Frank, and I then inserted the
> > following code in a While True loop, without any other code (the idea
> > is just to test Frank's solution before really using it in my
> > program):
>
> > ? ? func = MyFunction()
> > ? ? func.start()
>
> > ? ? func.stop()
> > ? ? func.join()
>
> > However I'm not getting the expected behavior. It's not taking into
> > account the 30 sec wait, the function is called again and again
> > without any time interval... Any idea ?
>
> > Again, thanks a lot.
>
> Why don't you include the code you're actually trying, instead of just
> trying to describe it. ?Frank's class didn't call any function, it just
> had a place to do it. ?So we really don't know what you're running, nor
> what about it is wrong.
>
> Perhaps a few well placed print statements?
>
> DaveA

Yes, I guess it would be more simple. Here is really what I am trying
to do. I simplified the functions, but the purpose is to write some
text in a local file every x seconds (here, I'm just writing the
timestamp, i.e. a string representing the date & time, every 10
seconds) and to transfer this file to a distant server via FTP every y
seconds (20 seconds in the example below). My code is a little bit
more complicated because each time I transfer the file, I delete the
local file which is then recreated when data is written, but for
simplicity I left this out in the code below. So, here is the code
I've been using to test Frank's code. I've been struggling with using
or not a While True loop or not, and everything I try seems to run
into issues.

import threading
from datetime import datetime
import ftplib

class CFtpConnection:
    """FTP Connection parameters"""
    def __init__(self, host, port, timeout, user, passwd):
        self.host = ""
        self.port = 21
        self.timeout = 60
        self.user = ""
        self.passwd = ""

class CStoreData(threading.Thread):
    """Write timestamp in a file every 10 seconds in separate
thread"""

    def __init__(self, timestamp):
        threading.Thread.__init__(self)
        self.event = threading.Event()
        self.timestamp = timestamp

    def run(self):
        while not self.event.is_set():
            file_handler = open("Test.txt", 'a')
            file_handler.write(self.timestamp.strftime("%y%m%d%H%M%S
\n"))
            file_handler.close()
            self.event.wait(10)

    def stop(self):
        self.event.set()

class CTransferData(threading.Thread):
    """Transfer timestamp file every 20 seconds in separate thread"""

    def __init__(self, ftp_connection):
        threading.Thread.__init__(self)
        self.event = threading.Event()
        self.ftp_connection = ftp_connection

    def run(self):
        while not self.event.is_set():
            file_handler = open("Test.txt", 'r')
            Ftp_handler = ftplib.FTP('')
            Ftp_handler.connect(self.ftp_connection.host,
self.ftp_connection.port, self.ftp_connection.timeout)
            Ftp_handler.login(self.ftp_connection.user,
self.ftp_connection.passwd)
            Ftp_handler.storbinary("STOR Test.txt", file_handler)
            file_handler.close()
            Ftp_handler.close()
            self.event.wait(20)

    def stop(self):
        self.event.set()

ftp_connection = CFtpConnection("", 21, 60, "", "")
ftp_connection.host = '127.0.0.1'
ftp_connection.user = "admin"
ftp_connection.passwd = "admin"

while(1):
  timestamp = datetime.now()
  func_store_data = CStoreData(timestamp)
  func_store_data.start()

  func_transfer_data = CTransferData(ftp_connection)
  func_transfer_data.start()

func_store_data.stop()
func_store_data.join()

func_transfer_data.stop()
func_transfer_data.join()


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Aug 13 19:19:29 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 00:19:29 +0100
Subject: implementing descriptors
In-Reply-To: <39aff5a5-97ec-41f7-ab26-6e4d842b9c5c@r33g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
References: <39aff5a5-97ec-41f7-ab26-6e4d842b9c5c@r33g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

dippim wrote:
> I am new to Python and I have a question about descriptors.  If I have
> a class as written below, is there a way to use descriptors to be
> certain that the datetime in start is always before the one in end?
> 
> class foo(object):
>    def __init__(self,a = None,b = None)
>       self.start = a
>       self.end = b
> 
> from datetime import datetime
> c = datetime(2009,8,13,6,15,0)
> d = datetime(2009,8,14,12,0,0)
> afoo = foo(c,d)
> 
> For instance, if the following code were run, I would like to instance
> of foo to switch the start and end times.
> 
> afoo.start = datetime(2010,8,13,6,15,0)
> 
> I was thinking of using the __set__ descriptor to catch the assignment
> and reverse the values if necessary, but I can't figure out how to
> determine which values is being set.
> 
> Thanks for the help!
> 
> David
Take a look at the example given here.
http://users.rcn.com/python/download/Descriptor.htm

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From mdekauwe at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 19:38:07 2009
From: mdekauwe at gmail.com (Martin)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 16:38:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: PIL and Python
References: 
Message-ID: <9683190f-3c99-49d6-93d1-d8966d38d7a6@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 13, 1:55?pm, "catalinf... at gmail.com" 
wrote:
> Hello !
> I want use python to change the "note" from .jpeg files .
> What is the functions on PIL how make this ?
> Thank you !

What do u mean by the note?


From emile at fenx.com  Thu Aug 13 19:57:21 2009
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 16:57:21 -0700
Subject: implementing descriptors
In-Reply-To: <39aff5a5-97ec-41f7-ab26-6e4d842b9c5c@r33g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
References: <39aff5a5-97ec-41f7-ab26-6e4d842b9c5c@r33g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On 8/13/2009 3:17 PM dippim said...
> I am new to Python and I have a question about descriptors.  If I have
> a class as written below, is there a way to use descriptors to be
> certain that the datetime in start is always before the one in end?
> 
> class foo(object):
>    def __init__(self,a = None,b = None)
>       self.start = a
>       self.end = b
> 
> from datetime import datetime
> c = datetime(2009,8,13,6,15,0)
> d = datetime(2009,8,14,12,0,0)
> afoo = foo(c,d)
> 
> For instance, if the following code were run, I would like to instance
> of foo to switch the start and end times.
> 
> afoo.start = datetime(2010,8,13,6,15,0)
> 
> I was thinking of using the __set__ descriptor to catch the assignment
> and reverse the values if necessary, 

why not...


class foo(object):
    def __init__(self,a = None,b = None)
       self.start = min(a,b)
       self.end = max(a,b)


Emile



From davea at ieee.org  Thu Aug 13 20:06:56 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 20:06:56 -0400
Subject: need help calculating point between two coordinates.
In-Reply-To: <2d059a29-933e-4e2c-8730-f1f2688af26c@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <2d059a29-933e-4e2c-8730-f1f2688af26c@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A84AAA0.6060105@ieee.org>

PeteDK wrote:
> Hi there
>
> I'am working on a route comparison tool for carpools.
>
> The route comparison is based on 'steps' retrieved from google maps
> GDirection. These steps vary in length and i use the coordinates at
> the beginning of each "step". However, sometimes the distance of these
> steps is too long(ex. driving 30-40 km. on the freeway). Therefore i
> would like to calculate/find the coordinate located in between two
> given coordinates.
> Lets say one step starts at:
> 56.043185,9.922714
> and ends at:
> 56.234287,9.864521
>
> I would then like to calculate the point right in the middle of these
> coordinates.
>
> I use the haversine form to calculate the distance between
> coordinates, but im not sure whether or not this can be used for the
> same purpose.
> http://www.mpi.nl/world/persons/private ... versine.py
>
> I apologize if this thread has been posted the wrong place:)
>
> any help is greatly appreciated!
>
> kind regards.
>
> Pete
>
>   
For the distances you're talking about, those coordinates are very close 
to linear.  So to find the midpoint, just average the coordinates.  You 
might be off by half a km, but roads bend more than that.

DaveA



From goldtech at worldpost.com  Thu Aug 13 20:36:59 2009
From: goldtech at worldpost.com (goldtech)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:36:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python "and" behavior
Message-ID: <10da5db0-ba83-42a1-8ce8-95d13b513ca1@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

Could you explain or link me to an explanation of this? Been using
Python for a while but not sure I understand what's happening below.
Thanks.


>>> ss=1 and "fffff"
>>> ss
'fffff'
>>> ss=0 and "fffff"
>>> ss
0
>>>


From gherron at islandtraining.com  Thu Aug 13 20:50:42 2009
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:50:42 -0700
Subject: Python "and" behavior
In-Reply-To: <10da5db0-ba83-42a1-8ce8-95d13b513ca1@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
References: <10da5db0-ba83-42a1-8ce8-95d13b513ca1@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A84B4E2.9080300@islandtraining.com>

goldtech wrote:
> Could you explain or link me to an explanation of this? Been using
> Python for a while but not sure I understand what's happening below.
> Thanks.
>
>
>   
>>>> ss=1 and "fffff"
>>>> ss
>>>>         
> 'fffff'
>   
>>>> ss=0 and "fffff"
>>>> ss
>>>>         
> 0
>   

Python's Boolean operators don't turn arbitrary values into True and 
False values.  If you use it in any conditional, you'll get the same 
result as if it did, but it is occasionally it's nice to get the actual 
values used in the "and" instead of having the value distilled down to a 
True/False.


 From the Python manual: 

These are the Boolean operations, ordered by ascending priority:

Operation 	Result 	Notes
|x or y| 	if x is false, then y, else x 	(1)
|x and y| 	if x is false, then x, else y 	(1)
|not x| 	if x is false, then |True|, else |False| 	(2)

Notes:

*(1)*
    These only evaluate their second argument if needed for their outcome.

*(2)*
    "not" has a lower priority than non-Boolean operators, so |not a ==
    b| is interpreted as |not (a == b)|, and |a == not b| is a syntax
    error.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From mensanator at aol.com  Thu Aug 13 20:52:40 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:52:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python "and" behavior
References: <10da5db0-ba83-42a1-8ce8-95d13b513ca1@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <44940d04-6378-4a32-b470-d4709aab1ada@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 13, 7:36?pm, goldtech  wrote:
> Could you explain or link me to an explanation of this? Been using
> Python for a while but not sure I understand what's happening below.
> Thanks.
>
>
>
>
>
> >>> ss=1 and "fffff"
> >>> ss
> 'fffff'
> >>> ss=0 and "fffff"
> >>> ss
> 0


Does this help?

>>> ss = True and 'fffff'
>>> ss
'fffff'
>>> ss = False and 'eeeee'
>>> ss
False




From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 21:02:38 2009
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 18:02:38 -0700
Subject: Python "and" behavior
In-Reply-To: <10da5db0-ba83-42a1-8ce8-95d13b513ca1@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
References: <10da5db0-ba83-42a1-8ce8-95d13b513ca1@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c20908131802v2295b18ev12af2ac830c24669@mail.gmail.com>

>
> Could you explain or link me to an explanation of this? Been using
> Python for a while but not sure I understand what's happening below.
> Thanks.
>
> >>> ss=1 and "fffff"
> >>> ss
> 'fffff'
> >>> ss=0 and "fffff"
> >>> ss
> 0
> >>>


The "and" and "or" operators in Python are actually not true boolean
operators: they operate on the more fundamental interpretation of Truth that
Python uses (and that 'if' for example uses) that goes back before Python
got actual boolean True/False values.
"x and y" evaluates first x; if it is false, its value is returned.
Otherwise, the value of y is returned.

"x or y" evaluates first x; if it is true, its value is returned. Otherwise,
the value of y is returned.

Python's idea of "true" verses "false" isn't the same as True and False.
It's been described as "something" verses "nothing", as in Python the
following are considered false: False, None, numeric 0 (in all types of
numbers), empty strings, empty containers (lists, tuples, dictionaries,
sets). Everything else is True. Instances of any class are True by default,
but they can have a __nonzero__ operation on them to override that.

So, every value has an innate 'truthfulness' about it: the 'if' statement
bases its decision on that truthfulness. In the context of truthfulness, the
string "hello" is just as true as the singleton True. So, if you do "x and
y", if 'x' is a false value... then 'x' is returned-- as 'x' is just as
false as the singleton False. Both are different ways of saying 'false' in
logical operations.

Lots of people don't like this. Lots of people do. Some people want it to be
pure-true boolean algebra, have them return True/False always-- some people
have even argued for "if" only branching on True/False values. The fact of
the matter is, this is all just a fundamental part of Python that pre-dates
it ever having true boolean values, and is never gonna go away.

There's some useful properties to it, like:

    value = opt or "default"

In this case, if opt was set to a something, it'll end up in value.
Otherwise, "default" will. Of course that's only useful where a opt would
never have a blank string or 0 or such in it naturally.

The poor-man's ternary operator was commonly used before Python got a proper
one:

    value = x and "Yes" or "No"

The construct had some limits(namely, the value in the "Yes" part of the
expression must be truthy), but is still useful in a lot of situations. If
"x" would evaluate true, then value would be set to "Yes". Otherwise, it'd
be set to "No".

HTH,

--Stephen
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From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Aug 13 21:09:09 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 02:09:09 +0100
Subject: Python "and" behavior
In-Reply-To: <4A84B4E2.9080300@islandtraining.com>
References: <10da5db0-ba83-42a1-8ce8-95d13b513ca1@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
	<4A84B4E2.9080300@islandtraining.com>
Message-ID: <4A84B935.8080809@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Gary Herron wrote:
> goldtech wrote:
>> Could you explain or link me to an explanation of this? Been using
>> Python for a while but not sure I understand what's happening below.
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>>   
>>>>> ss=1 and "fffff"
>>>>> ss
>>>>>         
>> 'fffff'
>>   
>>>>> ss=0 and "fffff"
>>>>> ss
>>>>>         
>> 0
>>   
> 
> Python's Boolean operators don't turn arbitrary values into True and 
> False values.  If you use it in any conditional, you'll get the same 
> result as if it did, but it is occasionally it's nice to get the actual 
> values used in the "and" instead of having the value distilled down to a 
> True/False.
> 
> 
>  >From the Python manual: 
> 
> These are the Boolean operations, ordered by ascending priority:
> 
> Operation 	Result 	Notes
> |x or y| 	if x is false, then y, else x 	(1)
> |x and y| 	if x is false, then x, else y 	(1)
> |not x| 	if x is false, then |True|, else |False| 	(2)
> 
The Pythonic table would be:

Operation 	Result
|x or y| 	x if x else y
|x and y| 	y if x else x
|not x| 	False if x else False

:-)


From arphaksad at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 21:21:39 2009
From: arphaksad at gmail.com (naaman)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 18:21:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: fileinput
References: 
	
	<521d7322-b8ee-490e-8cde-7e854e8afb7a@r34g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <31f257a9-8949-47d7-a0ae-0b4ab7822eb6@q23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 13, 7:50?am, Dave Angel  wrote:
> naaman wrote:
> > On Aug 12, 1:35 pm, Dave Angel  wrote:
>
> >> naaman wrote:
>
> >>> I'm writing my first Python script and
> >>> I want to use fileinput to open a file in r+ mode.
> >>> Tried fileinput.input(sys.argv[1:],"r+") but that didn't work.
> >>> ANy ideas?
>
> >>> Need to find and overwrite a line in a file several times.
> >>> I can do it using open and seek() etc. but was wondering if I can use
> >>> fileinput.
>
> >>> thanks;
>
> >> I haven't used it, but check out the 'inplace' keyword parameter.
>
> >> DaveA
>
> > I've only Python for a week so I'm not sure what inplace does
>
> You should read the docs for it
> ? ? (http://www.python.org/doc/2.6.2/library/fileinput.html?),
> but it's not very clear to me either ?So I dug up an example on the web:
> ? ? ?(ref: ?http://effbot.org/librarybook/fileinput.htm)
>
> import fileinput, sys
>
> for line in fileinput.input(inplace=1):
> ? ? # /convert Windows/DOS text files to Unix files/
> ? ? if line[-2:] == "\r\n":
> ? ? ? ? line = line[:-2] + "\n"
> ? ? sys.stdout.write(line)
>
> The inplace argument tells it to create a new file with the same name as
> the original (doing all the necessary nonsense with using a scratch
> file, and renaming/deleting) for each file processed. ?Stdout is pointed
> to that new version of the file. ?Notice that you have to explicitly
> write everything you want to wind up in the file -- if a given line is
> to remain unchanged, you just write "line" directly.
>
> If you're new to Python, I do not recommend trying to do open/seek to
> update a text file in place, especially if you're in DOS. ?There are
> lots of traps. ?the inplace method of fileinput avoids these by
> implicitly creating temp files and handling the details for you, which
> probably works great if you're dealing with text, in order.
>
> DaveA

Thanks Dave. I'll check that out


From xahlee at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 21:36:04 2009
From: xahlee at gmail.com (Xah Lee)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 18:36:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: A Exhibition Of Tech Geekers Incompetence: Emacs whitespace-mode
Message-ID: <61ef4451-d6b6-493b-b4a0-1822a901ca8d@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

? A Exhibition Of Tech Geekers Incompetence: Emacs whitespace-mode
  http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/emacs_whitespace-mode_problems.html

plane text version follows:
--------------------------------------------------

A Exhibition Of Tech Geekers Incompetence: Emacs whitespace-mode

Xah Lee, 2009-08-13

Just wanted to express some frustration with whitespace-mode.

Emacs 23, just released, has this whitespace-mode feature. It renders
spaces, tabs, newlines characters with a visible glyph. This feature,
is in Microsoft Word since about 1992.

This feature is important in practical ways. For example, when you
work with ?tab separated line? files (CSV) that's a common format for
importing/exporting address books or spreadsheets. It's also important
in whitespace-significant langs such as Python. Or, in text processing
when placement of space and tabs matters in the output.

All i wanted, is to make Space and Tab and Newline chars visible.

However, the emacs whitespace-mode does much more than that. It is
designed for tech geeking control freaks to tune every aspect of white
space in his source code. The mode is filled with bells and whistles.
It distinguishes tabs mixed with spaces, EOLs mixed with spaces, EOLs
at beginning of file, EOLs at end of file, run on spaces at end of
line, lines that has nothing to do with white spaces but is simply
longer than 80 chars, etc. Each of these is rendered with different
foreground, background, colors, so that they cannot possibly escape
the notices of control freaks.

By default, most of these are on, so that, when you turn on the mode,
most reasonable clean source code become this colorful rainbow
unreadable fuck.

I tried to tune it, with my 10 years of emacs of fucking 16 hours of
using per day, and 3 years of elisp coding experience. But, after a
hour, it's confusion hell sans avail.

O, that Alex idiot with his emacswiki, refused to lead emacswiki into
any readable state. All he can think about is my social skills. (See:
Problems of Emacswiki.)

What the fuck motherfuck. Hi tech geekers, coding freaks, social
science ignoramus fucks, basic economics illiterate FSF fucks, freedom
abusing selfish ideologists fucks, Richard Stallman propagandist fuck,
we-try-to-be-easy-to-use linuxer idioting fucks, FUCK U.

  Xah
? http://xahlee.org/

?


From timinganalyzer at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 21:43:27 2009
From: timinganalyzer at gmail.com (timinganalyzer)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 18:43:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: new version TimingAnalyzer
Message-ID: <55314c4f-24e0-4c2c-8016-3d004b622d21@j9g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>

Hi All,

   1.Added a new User Delay and Constraint Editor panel. You can add,
delete, or update User Delays or Constraints.
   2 .These User Delays and User Constraints are saved at the top of
the .tim file.
   3.Changing a User Delay or User Constraint updates every one of the
same type in the diagram.
   4.Files created with previous versions are converted to this new
format when saved.
   5.Added Python Interpreter, Jython 2.5. Now you can write scripts
in Python.
   6.Execute Python scripts using the same script dialog for the
beanshell scripts or from Jython command line window.
   7.Included start_app.py script in the install directory that will
start the TimingAnalyzer from a Jython command line window.
   8.Updated spice_pwl.bsh. This beanshell script generates spice
piece wise linear test vectors for DigitalBus.
   9.Included dff.py. This Python script shows how to generate a
timing diagram for a D Flip Flop.

Anyone interested in helping convert the Java scripts (in the scripts
dir) to Python should let me know.
Dan Fabrizio

www.timing-diagrams.com


From jura.grozni at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 21:51:10 2009
From: jura.grozni at gmail.com (azrael)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 18:51:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: i Don't get why it makes trouble
References: <5ddbbf79-a448-4cb0-96e8-427ab8160a78@q23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

On 14 kol, 00:14, Philip Semanchuk  wrote:
> On Aug 13, 2009, at 6:00 PM, azrael wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 13 kol, 22:09, Philip Semanchuk  wrote:
> >> On Aug 13, 2009, at 2:56 PM, azrael wrote:
>
> >>>>>> j
> >>> [u'Tata', u'Oriovac', u'PrimorskoGoranska', u'hrvatska', u'Kuna']
> >>>>>> len(j)
> >>> 5
> >>>>>> h = """SELECT distinct u.id_ulica, o.id_opcina, z.id_zupanija,
> >>>>>> d.id_drzava, v.id_valuta FROM ? ulica as u, opcina as o, zupanija
> >>>>>> as z, drzava as d, valuta as v ?WHERE ?u.naziv = '%s' AND o.naziv
> >>>>>> = '%s' AND z.naziv = '%s' AND d.naziv = '%s' AND v.naziv =
> >>>>>> '%s'""" % (j)
> >>> Traceback (most recent call last):
> >>> ?File "", line 1, in 
> >>> TypeError: not enough arguments for format string
>
> >> Hi azrael,
> >> You already have an answer to your question so I won't address ?
> >> that. I
> >> want to point out that this is a dangerous way to build SQL ?
> >> statements.
>
> >> For instance, what happens if someone enters a city name of L'viv?
> >> Your SQL will break due to mismatched single quotes. This kind of ?
> >> code
> >> is vulnerable to SQL injection attacks:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQL_injection
>
> >> Parameterized SQL is safer. Googling for 'parameterized SQL Python'
> >> should find some examples for you.
>
> >> Good luck
> >> Philip
>
> > I know Already. This is sopussed to be a small office application
> > connecting on a LAN mysql server with no web connection. Thank you
> > anyway
>
> You're welcome. I'm glad you are aware. You're ahead of a lot of ?
> developers out there.
>
> I encourage you to at least think about using parameterized SQL anyway ?
> because you never know when someone (maybe even you!) will copy & ?
> paste your code, or use your library without realizing that it was ?
> "internal use only". It's usually just as easy as building SQL strings ?
> anyway.
>
> And besides, what about L'viv? =)
>
> Good luck with whatever choice you make
> Philip

Currently I am working on just a prototype to show what is possible to
be done to get me some fundings for my future work. after that I will
get over to an SQL Alchemy. It's ORM will take over this business for
me.

A lot of people a not aware of SQL injection. My friend from college
asked me and a couple of other guys for Pen testing of an website. His
SQL injection mistake made him an epic fail.

Thanks


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Thu Aug 13 22:20:18 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 22:20:18 -0400
Subject: csv.DictWriter.write_header()
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908131920r14862573j6bdbfc7a486d5b26@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 4:45 PM, Alan G Isaac wrote:
> Given a csv.DictWriter instance `dw`
> I think it would be nice to be able to
> say dw.write_header()
> instead of
> dw.writer.writerow(dw.fieldnames)
>
> Good idea?

Maybe. You could file a bug: http://bugs.python.org/

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From akonsu at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 22:32:03 2009
From: akonsu at gmail.com (akonsu)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 19:32:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: something like perl's Mail::GPG ?
Message-ID: <4365602b-e174-4419-a1f7-44dde1b66b0c@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

hello,

i am looking for a module with functionality similar to that of the
Perl's Mail::GPG package. I need to verify multipart emails that are
PGP-signed.

thanks for any advice
konstantin


From arphaksad at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 22:33:32 2009
From: arphaksad at gmail.com (naaman)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 19:33:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: fileinput
References: 
	
	<521d7322-b8ee-490e-8cde-7e854e8afb7a@r34g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <5d11458b-322d-4851-98a8-13c4cee4f5aa@o13g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 13, 7:50?am, Dave Angel  wrote:
> naaman wrote:
> > On Aug 12, 1:35 pm, Dave Angel  wrote:
>
> >> naaman wrote:
>
> >>> I'm writing my first Python script and
> >>> I want to use fileinput to open a file in r+ mode.
> >>> Tried fileinput.input(sys.argv[1:],"r+") but that didn't work.
> >>> ANy ideas?
>
> >>> Need to find and overwrite a line in a file several times.
> >>> I can do it using open and seek() etc. but was wondering if I can use
> >>> fileinput.
>
> >>> thanks;
>
> >> I haven't used it, but check out the 'inplace' keyword parameter.
>
> >> DaveA
>
> > I've only Python for a week so I'm not sure what inplace does
>
> You should read the docs for it
> ? ? (http://www.python.org/doc/2.6.2/library/fileinput.html?),
> but it's not very clear to me either ?So I dug up an example on the web:
> ? ? ?(ref: ?http://effbot.org/librarybook/fileinput.htm)
>
> import fileinput, sys
>
> for line in fileinput.input(inplace=1):
> ? ? # /convert Windows/DOS text files to Unix files/
> ? ? if line[-2:] == "\r\n":
> ? ? ? ? line = line[:-2] + "\n"
> ? ? sys.stdout.write(line)
>
> The inplace argument tells it to create a new file with the same name as
> the original (doing all the necessary nonsense with using a scratch
> file, and renaming/deleting) for each file processed. ?Stdout is pointed
> to that new version of the file. ?Notice that you have to explicitly
> write everything you want to wind up in the file -- if a given line is
> to remain unchanged, you just write "line" directly.
>
> If you're new to Python, I do not recommend trying to do open/seek to
> update a text file in place, especially if you're in DOS. ?There are
> lots of traps. ?the inplace method of fileinput avoids these by
> implicitly creating temp files and handling the details for you, which
> probably works great if you're dealing with text, in order.
>
> DaveA

I wonder if inline creates an empty file and then the text from the
processed file gets written to it. If that's what is going on then
it's perfect solution. It will eliminate all the tell() and seek() and
overwriting a shorter line with a longer one.  I'll try it over the
weekend. thanks


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Thu Aug 13 23:15:14 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 00:15:14 -0300
Subject: Delegate attribute requests to object
References: <1a78d23f0908130850v3f013b37rd1a7bce23041eedc@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<1a78d23f0908131013x25feee2fwe6b907045e87b6f5@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<1a78d23f0908131100p75520be4oe7572aae00bf2f13@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: 

En Thu, 13 Aug 2009 12:50:47 -0300, Evan Kroske   
escribi?:

> I'm trying to use the decorator pattern in a program I'm developing. I  
> want
> to create a decorator object that works like the object it's decorating
> except for a few functions. However, I'd rather not hard-code all the
> identical functionality from the decorated object into the decorator  
> object.
> Is there a way I can intercept all the attribute and function requests  
> for
> the decorator and delegate them to the decorated object?

You may search the list archives for references to "proxy" and  
"delegation". The term "decorator" has a very specific meaning in Python  
(as a syntax construct), don't use it in the search.

> Is it possible (without inheritance)?

Yes, using delegation. See below.

En Thu, 13 Aug 2009 15:29:04 -0300, Rami Chowdhury  
 escribi?:

> Oops, my apologies, it's the __getattribute__ method you want to call on  
> self.decorated (because __getattr__ won't be there unless you define it  
> specifically)
> So it should go:
>
> def __getattr__(self, request):
> 	return self.decorated.__getattribute__(request)

__getattribute__ doesn't exist on old-style classes either. Also, note  
that very rarely one has to *call* __special__ methods; the code should  
read:

     def __getattr__(self, request):
	return getattr(self.decorated, request)

but that works *only* for old-style classes, as discussed here [1]. [3] is  
another approach for new-style classes (maybe not production-ready yet).  
And this recipe [2] shows how to make the decorated object keep calling  
methods on the decorator itself.

[1] http://code.activestate.com/recipes/252151/
[2] http://code.activestate.com/recipes/519639/
[3] http://code.activestate.com/recipes/496741/

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From nirvana117 at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 23:16:18 2009
From: nirvana117 at gmail.com (dou dou)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 11:16:18 +0800
Subject: problem with interface of operator.itemgetter
Message-ID: <19b355330908132016y49f2679u631c3123fcfc920a@mail.gmail.com>

I have a function to do some thing like LEFT JOIN in SQL, the function use
the itemgetter to get the "ON" and "SELECT" parameters of the two table(list
of list), the problem is that itemgetter may return a value or a tuple of
values, because of the inconsistent return type of itemgetter, I have to do
2^3 IF check,
the function like this:

def left_join(table1, on_index1, table2, on_index2, getter1, getter2):
    """do thing like:
    SELECT on1(table1), g1(table1), g2(table2) FROM table1
    LEFT JOIN table2
    ON on1(table1) == on2(table2)
    """
    on1 = itemgetter(*on_index1)
    on2 = itemgetter(*on_index2)
    g1 = itemgetter(*getter1)
    g2 = itemgetter(*getter2)

    d2 = {}
    d2 = dict((on2(r2), r2) for r2 in table2)

    #if itemgetter always return tuple, below could simple as one line
    #return [ list(on1(r1) + g1(r1) + g2(d2.get(on1(r1)))) for r1 in table1
]

    len_on = len(on_index1)
    len_g1 = len(getter1)
    len_g2 = len(getter2)

    if len_on == 1:
        if len_g1 == 1 and len_g2 == 1:
            return [ [on1(r1), g1(r1), g2(d2.get(on1(r1)))] for r1 in table1
]
        elif len_g1 == 1 and len_g2 > 1:
            return [ list((on1(r1),g1(r1))+g2(d2.get(on1(r1)))) for r1 in
table1 ]
        elif len_g1 > 1 and len_g2 == 1:
            return [ list((on1(r1),)+g1(r1)+(g2(d2.get(on1(r1))),))  for r1
in table1 ]
        else: #len_g1 > 1 and len_g2 > 1:
            return [ list((on1(r1),)+g1(r1)+g2(d2.get(on1(r1)))) for r1 in
table1 ]
    else: # len_on > 1
        if len_g1 == 1 and len_g2 == 1:
            return [ list(on1(r1))+[g1(r1),g2(d2.get(on1(r1)))] for r1 in
table1 ]
        elif len_g1 == 1 and len_g2 > 1:
            return [ list(on1(r1)+(g1(r1),)+g2(d2.get(on1(r1)))) for r1 in
table1 ]
        elif len_g1 > 1 and len_g2 == 1:
            return [ list(on1(r1)+g1(r1)+(g2(d2.get(on1(r1))),))  for r1 in
table1 ]
        else: #len_g1 > 1 and len_g2 > 1:
            return [ list(on1(r1)+g1(r1)+g2(d2.get(on1(r1)))) for r1 in
table1 ]

so is there a way to force itemgetter to return tuple even when
itemgetter(only_have_one_argument)? or some other function to do this?

Thanks.
-------------- next part --------------
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From arphaksad at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 23:25:02 2009
From: arphaksad at gmail.com (naaman)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 20:25:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: fileinput
References: 
	
Message-ID: <88cecdd5-4a7f-40ee-ad2d-1b481d5db03d@g1g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 13, 1:20?am, "Gabriel Genellina" 
wrote:
> En Wed, 12 Aug 2009 01:27:47 -0300, naaman  escribi?:
>
> > I'm writing my first Python script and
> > I want to use fileinput to open a file in r+ mode.
> > Tried fileinput.input(sys.argv[1:],"r+") but that didn't work.
> > ANy ideas?
>
> Don't use fileinput, it can't handle r+, only sequencial access.
> Even if you could use it, the documentation says [1]:
> fileinput.input([files[, inplace[, backup[, mode[, openhook]]]]])
>
> "r+" corresponds to the `inplace` parameter (behaving like inplace=True) ?
> instead of `mode`. You could write fileinput.input(sys.argv[1:], ?
> mode="r+") instead - but again from the docs: "mode... must be one of 'r', ?
> 'rU', 'U' and 'rb'"
>
> > Need to find and overwrite a line in a file several times.
> > I can do it using open and seek() etc. but was wondering if I can use
> > fileinput.
>
> open+seek is the way to do that (assuming you don't alter the line length)
>
> [1]http://docs.python.org/library/fileinput.html#fileinput.input
>
> --
> Gabriel Genellina

unfortunately, I am overwriting shorter with longer


From arphaksad at gmail.com  Thu Aug 13 23:41:41 2009
From: arphaksad at gmail.com (naaman)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 20:41:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: fileinput
References: 
	
	<521d7322-b8ee-490e-8cde-7e854e8afb7a@r34g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 13, 7:50?am, Dave Angel  wrote:
> naaman wrote:
> > On Aug 12, 1:35 pm, Dave Angel  wrote:
>
> >> naaman wrote:
>
> >>> I'm writing my first Python script and
> >>> I want to use fileinput to open a file in r+ mode.
> >>> Tried fileinput.input(sys.argv[1:],"r+") but that didn't work.
> >>> ANy ideas?
>
> >>> Need to find and overwrite a line in a file several times.
> >>> I can do it using open and seek() etc. but was wondering if I can use
> >>> fileinput.
>
> >>> thanks;
>
> >> I haven't used it, but check out the 'inplace' keyword parameter.
>
> >> DaveA
>
> > I've only Python for a week so I'm not sure what inplace does
>
> You should read the docs for it
> ? ? (http://www.python.org/doc/2.6.2/library/fileinput.html?),
> but it's not very clear to me either ?So I dug up an example on the web:
> ? ? ?(ref: ?http://effbot.org/librarybook/fileinput.htm)
>
> import fileinput, sys
>
> for line in fileinput.input(inplace=1):
> ? ? # /convert Windows/DOS text files to Unix files/
> ? ? if line[-2:] == "\r\n":
> ? ? ? ? line = line[:-2] + "\n"
> ? ? sys.stdout.write(line)
>
> The inplace argument tells it to create a new file with the same name as
> the original (doing all the necessary nonsense with using a scratch
> file, and renaming/deleting) for each file processed. ?Stdout is pointed
> to that new version of the file. ?Notice that you have to explicitly
> write everything you want to wind up in the file -- if a given line is
> to remain unchanged, you just write "line" directly.
>
> If you're new to Python, I do not recommend trying to do open/seek to
> update a text file in place, especially if you're in DOS. ?There are
> lots of traps. ?the inplace method of fileinput avoids these by
> implicitly creating temp files and handling the details for you, which
> probably works great if you're dealing with text, in order.
>
> DaveA

here's the solution

import fileinput, sys

for line in fileinput.input(sys.argv[1],inplace=1):
    if (line[:-1]==r'drew'):
        line=line.replace(line,"fancy dog")
    sys.stdout.write(line)

I want to replace drew in my input file with fancy dog.
Tested with this input file
angel
heaven
flying monkees
lazy dogs
drew
blue sky
veritas

and got this
angel
heaven
flying monkees
lazy dogs
fancy dog
blue sky
veritas

So drew was replaced with fancy dog.
Thanks to your inputs I got this solved. :-))


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Fri Aug 14 00:09:45 2009
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 21:09:45 -0700
Subject: Programming by Contract
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4A7A15CD.9090306@stoneleaf.us> <4A81C6B8.7010605@stoneleaf.us>
	
Message-ID: 

Charles Yeomans wrote:
> 
> On Aug 11, 2009, at 3:30 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
> 
>> Ethan Furman wrote:
>>> Greetings!
>>> I have seen posts about the assert statement and PbC (or maybe it was 
>>> DbC), and I just took a very brief look at pycontract 
>>> (http://www.wayforward.net/pycontract/) and now I have at least one 
>>> question:  Is this basically another way of thinking about unit 
>>> testing, or is the idea of PbC more along the lines of *always* 
>>> checking the input/output of functions to ensure they are correct?  
>>> (*Contstant vigilance!* as Prof Moody would say ;)
>>> I know asserts can be turned off, so they obviously won't work for 
>>> the latter case, and having seen the sample of pycontract it seems it 
>>> only does its thing during debugging.
>>> So is Design (Programming) by Contract a fancy way of saying 
>>> "Document your inputs/outputs!" or is there more to it?
>>> ~Ethan~
>>
>> Hmmm...
>>
>> Well, from the (apparently) complete lack of interest, I shall take 
>> away the (better?) documentation ideas and unit testing ideas, and not 
>> worry about the rest.  :)
>>
>>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Design by contract is complementary to unit testing (I notice that the 
> author of PEP 316 appears confused about this).  DbC is, roughly 
> speaking, about explicit allocation of responsibility.  Consider this 
> contrived example.
> 
> def foo(s):
>     require(s is not None)
>     //code
>     ensure(hasattr(returnValue, '__iter__'))

yo might want two flags, REQUIRE_OFF, and ENSURE_ON that control
testing, and change the code above to:
       require(REQUIRE_OFF or s is not None)
       //code
       ensure(ENSURE_OFF or hasattr(returnValue, '__iter__'))

Python has no good way to turn off argument calculation by
manipulating function definition (at least that I know of).

--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From akonsu at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 00:22:45 2009
From: akonsu at gmail.com (akonsu)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 21:22:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: coding for multiple versions of python
References: 
Message-ID: <57f07ff6-282c-4ac1-b03a-b26321a02f70@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 13, 12:57?pm, "Tim Arnold"  wrote:
> Hi,
> I've got a python based system that has to run on hp unix and red hat linux.
> The Python version on the HP is 2.4 and the version on the Linux box is 2.6.
> There's nothing I can do about that.
>
> I think that means I must have two different libraries since the pyc files
> are not cross-version compatible. No problem for the libs like PIL or lxml.
> But for the part of the system I actually code every day, I'd rather not do
> dual maintenance, having two copies of my code for each platform/version.
>
> I'm guessing I need to configure cvs to copy files to both locations
> whenever I commit. Does that sound right? Is there a better way I'm not
> thinking of?
>
> thanks,
> --Tim

hello,

why would you need to maintain pyc files at all? is having just source
files enough? or am i missing something?

konstantin


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Fri Aug 14 00:29:58 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 00:29:58 -0400
Subject: coding for multiple versions of python
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908132129p24b1f5e2y586d8d30648e0cd8@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 12:57 PM, Tim Arnold wrote:
> Hi,
> I've got a python based system that has to run on hp unix and red hat linux.
> The Python version on the HP is 2.4 and the version on the Linux box is 2.6.
> There's nothing I can do about that.
>
> I think that means I must have two different libraries since the pyc files
> are not cross-version compatible.

Why would the .pyc-s matter? They're just an optimization, which fall
back to the .py files. It only matters if the .py sourcecode files are
compatible with both versions.

> But for the part of the system I actually code every day, I'd rather not do
> dual maintenance, having two copies of my code for each platform/version.
>
> I'm guessing I need to configure cvs to copy files to both locations
> whenever I commit. Does that sound right? Is there a better way I'm not
> thinking of?

Put your code's directory in the PYTHONPATH / sys.path of both Python versions.
You will still have to write code that works in both versions though.
Essentially, don't use any new syntax that's not present in the older
version, and you'll have to work around any new/changed functions you
use.

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Aug 14 00:45:23 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:45:23 +0900
Subject: i Don't get why it makes trouble
In-Reply-To: <189e10f1-771a-4631-a907-56d450b5e493@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <5ddbbf79-a448-4cb0-96e8-427ab8160a78@q23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>		
	<189e10f1-771a-4631-a907-56d450b5e493@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

azrael wrote:

> Thanks Worked fine for me. I was a freakin idiot. I forgot about using
> a tuple. damn lists :D

The special casing of tuples versus other sequence objects with % 
formatting, and the forgetting and mistake making of multiple people is 
one of the reasons for the new .format system. Any sequence can either 
be passed and printed as a single object or *unrolled as multiple objects.

tjr



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Aug 14 00:49:19 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:49:19 +0900
Subject: trouble with reload
In-Reply-To: <24956946.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <24956946.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: 

Dr. Phillip M. Feldman wrote:
> According to the Python documentation, 'reload' reloads a previously imported
> module (so that changes made via an external editor will be effective). 
> But, when I try to use this command, I get the following error message:
> 
> TypeError: reload() argument must be module
> 
> Any suggestions will be appreciated.

Besides the other answers, do not use reload. It is removed in Py3 
because it cannot be made to work as people reasonably expect.

tjr



From nobody at nowhere.com  Fri Aug 14 00:52:24 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 05:52:24 +0100
Subject: PIL and Python
References: 
	<9683190f-3c99-49d6-93d1-d8966d38d7a6@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 16:38:07 -0700, Martin wrote:

>> I want use python to change the "note" from .jpeg files .
>> What is the functions on PIL how make this ?
> 
> What do u mean by the note?

I think he means the EXIF data.



From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 00:59:19 2009
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 21:59:19 -0700
Subject: i Don't get why it makes trouble
In-Reply-To: 
References: <5ddbbf79-a448-4cb0-96e8-427ab8160a78@q23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: <7a9c25c20908132159t113e339x2bd27b333c8f5f19@mail.gmail.com>

>
> Currently I am working on just a prototype to show what is possible to
> be done to get me some fundings for my future work. after that I will
> get over to an SQL Alchemy. It's ORM will take over this business for
> me.
>
> A lot of people a not aware of SQL injection. My friend from college
> asked me and a couple of other guys for Pen testing of an website. His
> SQL injection mistake made him an epic fail.
>

You don't really need to go the full ORM route to do this safely --
constructing SQL from user input is not only wrong from a security point of
view, but it's actually just harder to do it that way then use the
mechanisms provided in PEP-249 compliant DB-API modules. Life's easier if
you use parameterized queries, really :)

You're probably connecting to your database via a DB-API compatible library,
I assume? Most are. If so, it's simply a matter of:

cur = con.cursor()
cur.execute("SELECT name FROM blah WHERE id = ? AND zone = ?", (my_id,
my_zone))

All DB-API compliant modules support this, though some mark the parameters
differently. That's qmark, some alternates are numeric (:1, :2, etc), some
named (:id, :zone), some format (%s, %d, etc), some pyformat, (%(id)d,
%(zone)s).

The module should provide a 'paramstyle' stating what is supported.

--S
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From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Fri Aug 14 01:17:57 2009
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 22:17:57 -0700
Subject: Format Code Repeat Counts?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

MRAB wrote:
> The shortest I can come up with is:
>     "[" + "][".join(letters) + "]"

Maybe a golf shot:
       "][".join(letters).join("[]")


--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Fri Aug 14 01:36:12 2009
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 22:36:12 -0700
Subject: i Don't get why it makes trouble
In-Reply-To: 
References: <5ddbbf79-a448-4cb0-96e8-427ab8160a78@q23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

azrael wrote:
> ... A lot of people a not aware of SQL injection. My friend from college
> asked me and a couple of other guys for Pen testing of an website. His
> SQL injection mistake made him an epic fail.

And some people are unaware of the unofficial official Python citation
for SQL injection explanations:
     http://xkcd.com/327/

--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From pfeldman at verizon.net  Fri Aug 14 01:36:37 2009
From: pfeldman at verizon.net (Dr. Phillip M. Feldman)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 22:36:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: trouble with reload
In-Reply-To: 
References: <24956946.post@talk.nabble.com>
	
Message-ID: <24965811.post@talk.nabble.com>


Actually, I've tried both of these, and I get (different) errors in both
cases:

In [1]: from mymath import *

In [2]: reload(mymath)
NameError: name 'mymath' is not defined

In [3]: reload('mymath')
TypeError: reload() argument must be module


Rami Chowdhury wrote:
> 
> Could you please clarify how you're calling it? E.g.
> 	reload('foo')
> or
> 	reload(foo)
> 
> ?
> 
> On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 12:05:26 -0700, Dr. Phillip M. Feldman  
>  wrote:
> 
>> According to the Python documentation, 'reload' reloads a previously  
>> imported
>> module (so that changes made via an external editor will be effective).
>> But, when I try to use this command, I get the following error message:
>>
>> TypeError: reload() argument must be module
>>
>> Any suggestions will be appreciated.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Rami Chowdhury
> "Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --  
> Hanlon's Razor
> 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
> 

-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/trouble-with-reload-tp24956946p24965811.html
Sent from the Python - python-list mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Aug 14 01:41:39 2009
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 07:41:39 +0200
Subject: coding for multiple versions of python
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A84F913.9090901@v.loewis.de>

> I'm guessing I need to configure cvs to copy files to both locations 
> whenever I commit. Does that sound right? Is there a better way I'm not 
> thinking of?

If the set of files doesn't change too often, you can use symlinks.
That's how Debian currently installs Python packages for multiple
versions on a single system.

Specifically, put the source code into /net/source/python/foo/*.py.
Then, on each system, put symlinks to all .py files into
lib/site-packages/foo. Then Python will place the .pyc files next
to the symlinks, not next to the actual .py files.

HTH,
Martin


From narkewoody at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 02:22:49 2009
From: narkewoody at gmail.com (Steven Woody)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 14:22:49 +0800
Subject: OptionParser How to: prog  [options] [arguments]
Message-ID: 

Hi,
I am using OptionParser, but I've not managed figure out a way to support
what I wanted command line format "prog  [options] [arguments]".
E.g., "svn ls -r123 http://hello.world".   Can I do this using OptionParser?

Thanks.

-- 
Life is the only flaw in an otherwise perfect nonexistence
   -- Schopenhauer

narke
public key at http://subkeys.pgp.net:11371 (narkewoody at gmail.com)
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From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 02:31:19 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 23:31:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: trouble with reload
References: <24956946.post@talk.nabble.com>
	 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 13, 10:36?pm, "Dr. Phillip M. Feldman" 
wrote:
> Actually, I've tried both of these, and I get (different) errors in both
> cases:
>
> In [1]: from mymath import *
>
> In [2]: reload(mymath)
> NameError: name 'mymath' is not defined
>
> In [3]: reload('mymath')
> TypeError: reload() argument must be module

Two problems here.

1. You have to call reload on an actual module object.  When you write
"from mymath import *" you are not actually binding the mytmath module
to the mymath symbol.  So, if you were to then write "print mymath"
Python would raise a NameError exception.

OTOH, if you were to write "import mymath", then the symbol mymath
would bound to the mymath module.  If you then write "print mymath",
Python would output , the module
object.  Only then can you pass it to reload.

2. If you use "from mymath import *", even if you were to reload the
mymath module (say, by importing it directly and calling reload on
that), you will find that the functions you had originally imported
will not be updated.  They will still refer to the old functions.
Why?  Because when you reload a module, it only affects that's
module's namespace.  When you import a function from a module, you are
now referencing the function from your own namespace.  Even if the
function in the module is replaced, the reference to that function in
your own namespace hasn't been replaced.

So, what do you do?

My advice is to dispense with importing functions altogether; only
import modules.  It's more typing and a bit less efficient, but it
makes everything more straightforward and consistent.


Carl Banks


From python at rcn.com  Fri Aug 14 02:34:16 2009
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 23:34:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: implementing descriptors
References: <39aff5a5-97ec-41f7-ab26-6e4d842b9c5c@r33g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

[David]
> I am new to Python and I have a question about descriptors. ?If I have
> a class as written below, is there a way to use descriptors to be
> certain that the datetime in start is always before the one in end?
>
> class foo(object):
> ? ?def __init__(self,a = None,b = None)
> ? ? ? self.start = a
> ? ? ? self.end = b
>
> from datetime import datetime
> c = datetime(2009,8,13,6,15,0)
> d = datetime(2009,8,14,12,0,0)
> afoo = foo(c,d)
>
> For instance, if the following code were run, I would like to instance
> of foo to switch the start and end times.
>
> afoo.start = datetime(2010,8,13,6,15,0)
>
> I was thinking of using the __set__ descriptor to catch the assignment
> and reverse the values if necessary, but I can't figure out how to
> determine which values is being set.

You're on the right track, but it is easier to use property() than to
write your own custom descriptor with __get__ and __set__.

class foo(object):
    def __init__(self,a = None,b = None):
        self._start = a
        self._end = b
    def get_start(self):
        return self._start
    def set_start(self, value):
        if self._end is None or value < self._end:
            self._start = value
        else:
            self._end = value
    start = property(get_start, set_start)
    def get_end(self):
        return self._end
    def set_end(self, value):
        if self._start is None or value > self._start:
            self._end = value
        else:
            self._start = value
    end = property(get_end, set_end)



Raymond



From frank at chagford.com  Fri Aug 14 03:04:37 2009
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:04:37 +0200
Subject: How to launch a function at regular time intervals ?
References: 
	
	
	
	<6ebb8c71-870c-4233-a256-a4061a1ab530@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
	<18ac9f9a-0cf2-409c-82b3-ea068f21dbf7@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 14, 12:52 am, David  wrote:
>
> Yes, I guess it would be more simple. Here is really what I am trying
> to do. I simplified the functions, but the purpose is to write some
> text in a local file every x seconds (here, I'm just writing the
> timestamp, i.e. a string representing the date & time, every 10
> seconds) and to transfer this file to a distant server via FTP every y
> seconds (20 seconds in the example below). My code is a little bit
> more complicated because each time I transfer the file, I delete the
> local file which is then recreated when data is written, but for
> simplicity I left this out in the code below. So, here is the code
> I've been using to test Frank's code. I've been struggling with using
> or not a While True loop or not, and everything I try seems to run
> into issues.
>
> import threading
> from datetime import datetime
> import ftplib
>
> class CFtpConnection:
>     """FTP Connection parameters"""
>     def __init__(self, host, port, timeout, user, passwd):
>         self.host = ""
>         self.port = 21
>         self.timeout = 60
>         self.user = ""
>         self.passwd = ""
>
> class CStoreData(threading.Thread):
>     """Write timestamp in a file every 10 seconds in separate
> thread"""
>
>     def __init__(self, timestamp):
>         threading.Thread.__init__(self)
>         self.event = threading.Event()
>         self.timestamp = timestamp
>
>     def run(self):
>         while not self.event.is_set():
>             file_handler = open("Test.txt", 'a')
>             file_handler.write(self.timestamp.strftime("%y%m%d%H%M%S
> \n"))
>             file_handler.close()
>             self.event.wait(10)
>
>     def stop(self):
>         self.event.set()
>
> class CTransferData(threading.Thread):
>     """Transfer timestamp file every 20 seconds in separate thread"""
>
>     def __init__(self, ftp_connection):
>         threading.Thread.__init__(self)
>         self.event = threading.Event()
>         self.ftp_connection = ftp_connection
>
>     def run(self):
>         while not self.event.is_set():
>             file_handler = open("Test.txt", 'r')
>             Ftp_handler = ftplib.FTP('')
>             Ftp_handler.connect(self.ftp_connection.host,
> self.ftp_connection.port, self.ftp_connection.timeout)
>             Ftp_handler.login(self.ftp_connection.user,
> self.ftp_connection.passwd)
>             Ftp_handler.storbinary("STOR Test.txt", file_handler)
>             file_handler.close()
>             Ftp_handler.close()
>             self.event.wait(20)
>
>     def stop(self):
>         self.event.set()
>
> ftp_connection = CFtpConnection("", 21, 60, "", "")
> ftp_connection.host = '127.0.0.1'
> ftp_connection.user = "admin"
> ftp_connection.passwd = "admin"
>
> while(1):
>   timestamp = datetime.now()
>   func_store_data = CStoreData(timestamp)
>   func_store_data.start()
>
>   func_transfer_data = CTransferData(ftp_connection)
>   func_transfer_data.start()
>
> func_store_data.stop()
> func_store_data.join()
>
> func_transfer_data.stop()
> func_transfer_data.join()

Hi David

I think that the main problem is your use of  while(1) (usually written as 
'while 1' BTW). The effect is that you create multiple copies of CStoreData 
and CTransferData, each running simultaneously. As you bind them to the same 
name each time, the previous one presumably gets garbage collected. I don't 
know if this effectively kills the running thread or not. Either way, this 
is not what you want to happen.

Here are some initial thoughts -

1. You say that you want the main program to continue running in the 
background. Personally I find it easier to think of the main program running 
in the foreground, and each of the functions running in the background.

2. As you speak of launching several functions, you may want to keep a list 
of them to make it easier to stop them at the end.

3. Instead of passing 'timestamp' as an argument to each function, it is 
probably better to call datatime.now() within the function itself.

Based on these thoughts, maybe your program should look something like 
this -

    running_functions = []

    while 1:
        if some_condition:  # start function to store data
            func = CStoreData()
            func.start()
            running_functions.append(func)

       if some_other_condition:  # start function to transfer data
            func = CTransferData()
            func.start()
            running_functions.append(func)

        if end_condition:  # terminate program
            break  # break out of while loop

        time.sleep(0.1)  # to avoid hogging the cpu

    # stop all running functions at end
    for func in running_functions:
        func.stop()
        func.join()

I hope this gives you some ideas.

Frank




From walkraft at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 03:05:18 2009
From: walkraft at gmail.com (casebash)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 00:05:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Nice copy in interactive terminal
References: 
	<1250153823.228153@athprx03>
Message-ID: <0dac8bc9-8f00-4f4e-bc29-b475bade7685@y10g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

I mainly develop on Linux these days, but if I ever end up doing
anything on windows I'll make sure to look at that.

On Aug 13, 6:56?pm, "Elias Fotinis \(eliasf\)" 
wrote:
> "casebash" wrote:
> > I've been wondering for a while if there exists an interactive
> > terminal which has nice copy feature (ie. I can copy code without
> > getting the >>> in front of every line).
>
> It would help if we knew what platform you're interested in -- your
> User-Agent is G2/1.0, but I don't know what that is. ?:o)
>
> On Windows, PythonWin can copy from the interactive window without the
> prompts.



From gabriel.rossetti at arimaz.com  Fri Aug 14 03:15:34 2009
From: gabriel.rossetti at arimaz.com (Gabriel Rossetti)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:15:34 +0200
Subject: socket.send : (11, 'Resource temporarily unavailable')
Message-ID: <4A850F16.4010309@arimaz.com>

Hello everyone,

I get a (11, 'Resource temporarily unavailable') error when I try to 
send a file using a socket. Is there s size limit? I tried sending a 
smaller file and ii poses no problem. Am I doing something wrong? Here 
is the code:

def sendMessage(host, port, msg):

    if isinstance(msg, unicode):
        msg = msg.encode("utf-8")
   
    sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
    sock.connect((host, port))
    sock.setblocking(0)
    totalsent = 0
    while totalsent < len(msg):
        sent = sock.send(msg[totalsent:])
        if sent == 0:
            raise RuntimeError, "socket connection broken"
        totalsent = totalsent + sent
    sock.close()

Thank you,
Gabriel


From javier.collado at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 03:18:45 2009
From: javier.collado at gmail.com (Javier Collado)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:18:45 +0200
Subject: OptionParser How to: prog  [options] [arguments]
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Hello,

I think that this isn't possible with optparse library.

However, it's possible with argparse (http://code.google.com/p/argparse/):
 http://argparse.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/doc/other-methods.html#sub-commands

It's not a standard library, but it's worth to take a look at it.

Best regards,
    Javier

2009/8/14 Steven Woody :
> Hi,
> I am using OptionParser, but I've not managed figure out a way to support
> what I wanted command line format "prog  [options] [arguments]".
> E.g., "svn ls -r123 http://hello.world".???Can?I?do?this?using?OptionParser?
> Thanks.
> --
> Life is the only flaw in an otherwise perfect nonexistence
> ? ?-- Schopenhauer
>
> narke
> public key at http://subkeys.pgp.net:11371 (narkewoody at gmail.com)
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>


From durumdara at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 03:43:02 2009
From: durumdara at gmail.com (durumdara)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 00:43:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Pygresql, and query meta informations
Message-ID: <55aceb1c-b3d9-4f9b-b8cf-d9833edb2660@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

Hi!

Pygresql, DB-API.

I search for a solution to get meta information about last query,
because I must export these infos to Delphi.

Delphi have TDataSet, and it have meta structure that must be defined
before I create it.
For char/varchar fields I must define their sizes!

Pygresql is not retreive the field sizes.

Ok, it have solution that CHAR fields values have full size; but
varchars are not.
Ok, secondary I can calc all field lengths before I export, and I can
set THIS CALCULATED size to the field, but this is data dependent.

If I have NULL only, the field size = 0. Next query get 71 to the
field len. Next query is 234...

So I wanna ask that
a.) have I some special way in Pygresql to retreive the char/varchar
field's length?
b.) if not, how to I realize this (other ways)?

Thanks for your help:
   dd



From gabriel.rossetti at arimaz.com  Fri Aug 14 03:47:50 2009
From: gabriel.rossetti at arimaz.com (Gabriel Rossetti)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:47:50 +0200
Subject: socket.send : (11, 'Resource temporarily unavailable')
In-Reply-To: <4A850F16.4010309@arimaz.com>
References: <4A850F16.4010309@arimaz.com>
Message-ID: <4A8516A6.7010309@arimaz.com>

Gabriel Rossetti wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> I get a (11, 'Resource temporarily unavailable') error when I try to 
> send a file using a socket. Is there s size limit? I tried sending a 
> smaller file and ii poses no problem. Am I doing something wrong? Here 
> is the code:
>
> def sendMessage(host, port, msg):
>
>    if isinstance(msg, unicode):
>        msg = msg.encode("utf-8")
>      sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
>    sock.connect((host, port))
>    sock.setblocking(0)
>    totalsent = 0
>    while totalsent < len(msg):
>        sent = sock.send(msg[totalsent:])
>        if sent == 0:
>            raise RuntimeError, "socket connection broken"
>        totalsent = totalsent + sent
>    sock.close()
>
> Thank you,
> Gabriel

Actually, the original code didn't have the sock.setblocking(0), the 
problem I am trying to find is that the server does have 
sock.setblocking(0) (I can't change that) and it is getting the same 
error as my client has with the sock.setblocking(0), except it gets it 
on the accept() call. I tried modifying my code to be like this :

def sendMessage(host, port, msg):
   
    if isinstance(msg, unicode):
        msg = msg.encode("utf-8")
   
    burstSize = 4096
   
    sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
    sock.connect((host, port))
    while msg:
        sent = sock.send(msg[:burstSize])
        print "Sending %d bytes..." % sent
        if sent == 0:
            raise RuntimeError, "socket connection broken"
        msg = msg[burstSize:]
    sock.close()

thinking maybe if I send small parts it would work better but this does 
not seem to change anything.
How are large msgs sent w/ a socket in python to a non-blocking server? 
The msg I'm trying to send is 175213 bytes long.

Thank,
Gabriel


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Fri Aug 14 04:11:34 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 10:11:34 +0200
Subject: socket.send : (11, 'Resource temporarily unavailable')
In-Reply-To: <4A850F16.4010309@arimaz.com>
References: <4A850F16.4010309@arimaz.com>
Message-ID: <200908141011.34272.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Friday 14 August 2009 09:15:34 Gabriel Rossetti wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> I get a (11, 'Resource temporarily unavailable') error when I try to
> send a file using a socket. Is there s size limit? I tried sending a
> smaller file and ii poses no problem. Am I doing something wrong? Here
> is the code:
>
> def sendMessage(host, port, msg):
>
>     if isinstance(msg, unicode):
>         msg = msg.encode("utf-8")
>
>     sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
>     sock.connect((host, port))
>     sock.setblocking(0)

This is the problem - if the socket does not block, it will return
the " temporarily unavailable" error when it is busy.

If you want to use it non blocking then you have to handle the
error in a try except, and loop.

- Hendrik


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Fri Aug 14 04:16:21 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 10:16:21 +0200
Subject: socket.send : (11, 'Resource temporarily unavailable')
In-Reply-To: <4A8516A6.7010309@arimaz.com>
References: <4A850F16.4010309@arimaz.com> <4A8516A6.7010309@arimaz.com>
Message-ID: <200908141016.21579.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Friday 14 August 2009 09:47:50 Gabriel Rossetti wrote:
> Gabriel Rossetti wrote:
8< ------------------------------------------
>
> Actually, the original code didn't have the sock.setblocking(0), the
> problem I am trying to find is that the server does have
> sock.setblocking(0) (I can't change that) and it is getting the same
> error as my client has with the sock.setblocking(0), except it gets it
> on the accept() call. I tried modifying my code to be like this :
>
> def sendMessage(host, port, msg):
>
>     if isinstance(msg, unicode):
>         msg = msg.encode("utf-8")
>
>     burstSize = 4096
>
>     sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
>     sock.connect((host, port))
>     while msg:
>         sent = sock.send(msg[:burstSize])
>         print "Sending %d bytes..." % sent
>         if sent == 0:
>             raise RuntimeError, "socket connection broken"
>         msg = msg[burstSize:]
>     sock.close()
>
> thinking maybe if I send small parts it would work better but this does
> not seem to change anything.
> How are large msgs sent w/ a socket in python to a non-blocking server?
> The msg I'm trying to send is 175213 bytes long.

Google for netstring, and also look at sock.sendall instead of send.

- Hendrik


From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Fri Aug 14 04:24:20 2009
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (Bearophile)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 01:24:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Plotting Quadratic Functions, pygame
References: 
Message-ID: 

Senad Ibraimoski Of Belgrade:
> Hello, I'm a new guy to this group, my professor recommend this group
> to me, because I was boring him with questions.I'm new to python, and
> I have problem plotting Quadratic Functions. Using module pygame.

Python is a tool you use to learn something else, but tools are
important, they also help shape the way you think. So tell your
teacher that questions about tools are important enough.

If your purpose is to learn something then using Pygame to plot
functions is OK. If your purpose is just to plot them, and you don't
have strange needs, then MatPlotLib can be better.

Bye,
bearophile


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Aug 14 04:34:52 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 14 Aug 2009 08:34:52 GMT
Subject: trouble with reload
References: <24956946.post@talk.nabble.com>
	
Message-ID: <0295120a$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:49:19 +0900, Terry Reedy wrote:

> Dr. Phillip M. Feldman wrote:
>> According to the Python documentation, 'reload' reloads a previously
>> imported module (so that changes made via an external editor will be
>> effective). But, when I try to use this command, I get the following
>> error message:
>> 
>> TypeError: reload() argument must be module
>> 
>> Any suggestions will be appreciated.
> 
> Besides the other answers, do not use reload. It is removed in Py3
> because it cannot be made to work as people reasonably expect.

That's a damn shame, because it is very useful for interactive use once 
you get it's quirks. Is it gone-gone or just removed from built-ins? 

If the former, would the following be a reasonable replacement?

def reload(module):
    if type(module) is not type(__builtins__):
        raise TypeError("reload() argument must be module")
    name = module.__name__
    del globals()[name]
    del sys.modules[name]
    globals()[name] = __import__(name)


It seems to work for me, but I'm not sure if I've missed something.


-- 
Steven


From rylesny at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 04:38:57 2009
From: rylesny at gmail.com (ryles)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 01:38:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python "and" behavior
References: <10da5db0-ba83-42a1-8ce8-95d13b513ca1@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <55453c36-d789-4710-8a9a-ce5dd306c7c1@h31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 13, 8:36?pm, goldtech  wrote:
> Could you explain or link me to an explanation of this?

http://docs.python.org/tutorial/datastructures.html#more-on-conditions

Give the whole tutorial a good read.


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Fri Aug 14 05:04:07 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 11:04:07 +0200
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a Serial port?
Message-ID: <200908141104.07641.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

In the past, on this  group, I have made statements that said that on Linux, 
the serial port handling somehow does not allow transmitting and receiving at 
the same time, and nobody contradicted me.

I am running into the self same issue again.

What I normally do is to open the port like this:

port = open("/dev/ttyS0","r+b",0)

and then I unblock it with:

def unblock(f):
    """Given file 'f', sets its unblock flag to true."""

    fcntl.fcntl(f.fileno(), fcntl.F_SETFL, os.O_NONBLOCK)

Then I can write a loop that uses a try-except to see if there are characters 
available, and that examines a queue to see if there is something to 
transmit, to give the appearance of full duplex functionality.

What I would really like is to have two threads - one that does blocking input 
waiting for a character, and one that examines an output queue and transmits 
the stuff it finds.

When I try to do this, it does not seem to work - as far as I can see, it is 
as if the underlying implementation is somehow single threaded - if it is 
waiting for a received character, it waits until something comes in before it 
will transmit anything.  So if you are talking to a device that does not 
respond, the whole thing freezes up waiting for a character that never comes, 
and nothing is transmitted either, despite the call to 
port.write(somestring).  The write blocks, and everything stops, waiting for 
the receipt to finish.

Is there a way to get full duplex, so that the transmit and receive are 
independent of each other?

Or are we stuck with a disk-like model that forces a sequence on reads and 
writes?

- Hendrik



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Aug 14 05:27:39 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 11:27:39 +0200
Subject: trouble with reload
In-Reply-To: <24965811.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <24956946.post@talk.nabble.com>	
	<24965811.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <4A852E0B.4070309@sequans.com>

Dr. Phillip M. Feldman wrote:
> Actually, I've tried both of these, and I get (different) errors in both
> cases:
>
> In [1]: from mymath import *
>
> In [2]: reload(mymath)
> NameError: name 'mymath' is not defined
>
> In [3]: reload('mymath')
> TypeError: reload() argument must be module
>
>   
Please don't top post :o)

1/ Do not use the 'from  import *' form, unless you don't have 
any other choice, it will set in your namespace an undefined number of 
symbols, you may get some name collisions which usually lead to very 
nasty bugs.

import mymath
reload(mymath)

will do the trick.

If you are of those lazy coders you can write

import mymath as mm
reload(mm)
mm.aFunction()

If you are using a few functions and don't what to prefix them with the 
module name you can also write
import mymath
from mymath import func1, func2, func3

# reload the functions
reload(mymath)
func1 = mymath.func1
func2 = mymath.func2
func3 = mymath.func3

JM


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Fri Aug 14 05:32:25 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 06:32:25 -0300
Subject: trouble with reload
References: <24956946.post@talk.nabble.com>
	
	<0295120a$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

En Fri, 14 Aug 2009 05:34:52 -0300, Steven D'Aprano  
 escribi?:
> On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:49:19 +0900, Terry Reedy wrote:

>> Besides the other answers, do not use reload. It is removed in Py3
>> because it cannot be made to work as people reasonably expect.
>
> That's a damn shame, because it is very useful for interactive use once
> you get it's quirks. Is it gone-gone or just removed from built-ins?

Just relocated:

p3> import imp
p3> imp.reload


-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 05:38:28 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 02:38:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: OptionParser How to: prog  [options] [arguments]
References:  
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 14, 12:18?am, Javier Collado  wrote:
> 2009/8/14 Steven Woody :
>
> > Hi,
> > I am using OptionParser, but I've not managed figure out a way to support
> > what I wanted command line format "prog  [options] [arguments]".
> > E.g., "svn ls -r123http://hello.world".   Can I do this using OptionParser?
> > Thanks.
>
> Hello,
>
> I think that this isn't possible with optparse library.

It's possible if you remove sys.argv[1] before invoking optparse.
But...


> However, it's possible with argparse (http://code.google.com/p/argparse/):
> ?http://argparse.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/doc/other-methods.html#sub-c...
>
> It's not a standard library, but it's worth to take a look at it.

It's more than worth looking at, it's a slam dunk.  It's superior to
optparse in every way I can think of.  Unless you don't want the third-
party dependency there is no reason to use optparse instead of
argparse.


Carl Banks


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Fri Aug 14 05:45:57 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 06:45:57 -0300
Subject: OptionParser How to: prog  [options] [arguments]
References: 
Message-ID: 

En Fri, 14 Aug 2009 03:22:49 -0300, Steven Woody   
escribi?:

> I am using OptionParser, but I've not managed figure out a way to support
> what I wanted command line format "prog  [options] [arguments]".
> E.g., "svn ls -r123 http://hello.world".   Can I do this using  
> OptionParser?

Extract the  yourself, and pass the remaining arguments (that is,  
sys.argv[2:]) to parser.parse_args()

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Aug 14 05:45:58 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 11:45:58 +0200
Subject: implementing descriptors
In-Reply-To: 
References: <39aff5a5-97ec-41f7-ab26-6e4d842b9c5c@r33g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4A853256.9070806@sequans.com>

Emile van Sebille wrote:
> On 8/13/2009 3:17 PM dippim said...
>> I am new to Python and I have a question about descriptors.  If I have
>> a class as written below, is there a way to use descriptors to be
>> certain that the datetime in start is always before the one in end?
>>
>> class foo(object):
>>    def __init__(self,a = None,b = None)
>>       self.start = a
>>       self.end = b
>>
>> from datetime import datetime
>> c = datetime(2009,8,13,6,15,0)
>> d = datetime(2009,8,14,12,0,0)
>> afoo = foo(c,d)
>>
>> For instance, if the following code were run, I would like to instance
>> of foo to switch the start and end times.
>>
>> afoo.start = datetime(2010,8,13,6,15,0)
>>
>> I was thinking of using the __set__ descriptor to catch the assignment
>> and reverse the values if necessary, 
>
> why not...
>
>
> class foo(object):
>    def __init__(self,a = None,b = None)
>       self.start = min(a,b)
>       self.end = max(a,b)
>
>
> Emile
>
or

class foo(object):
    def __init__(self, start, end)
       self.start = start
       self.end = end


Problem solved by design :o)

JM


From sleepy at cabbage.co.uk  Fri Aug 14 05:48:34 2009
From: sleepy at cabbage.co.uk (Sleepy Cabbage)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:48:34 GMT
Subject: get the pause status from amarok 2.1
Message-ID: 

As the title says, I'm trying to find a way to get the pause status from 
amarok 2.1.

I'm running kubuntu 9.04 with kde 4.2.2, python 2.6.2.

Thanks in advance.


From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Fri Aug 14 05:51:52 2009
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 10:51:52 +0100
Subject: A Exhibition Of Tech Geekers Incompetence: Emacs whitespace-mode
In-Reply-To: <61ef4451-d6b6-493b-b4a0-1822a901ca8d@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
References: <61ef4451-d6b6-493b-b4a0-1822a901ca8d@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Sounds like a bad case of STRIS
http://blog.dcuktec.com/2009/08/stris.html


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Fri Aug 14 06:26:55 2009
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 14 Aug 2009 10:26:55 GMT
Subject: Python "and" behavior
References: <10da5db0-ba83-42a1-8ce8-95d13b513ca1@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
	<4A84B4E2.9080300@islandtraining.com>
	
Message-ID: 

MRAB  wrote:

> Operation      Result
>|x or y|      x if x else y
>|x and y|      y if x else x
>|not x|      False if x else False
> 
>:-)
> 

That's not a terribly good definition for the 'not' operator. Try:

  |not x| False if x else True



-- 
Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com


From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Aug 14 06:54:32 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 12:54:32 +0200
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a Serial
	port?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7eku38F2gtku3U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Hendrik van Rooyen schrieb:
> In the past, on this  group, I have made statements that said that on Linux, 
> the serial port handling somehow does not allow transmitting and receiving at 
> the same time, and nobody contradicted me.
> 
> I am running into the self same issue again.
> 
> What I normally do is to open the port like this:
> 
> port = open("/dev/ttyS0","r+b",0)

How about using pyserial? With that, I never had any problems accessing 
the the serial ports, and AFAIK no duplex-problems as well. And I 
seriously doubt that these are a python-related problem - python only 
has a very thin, direct layer above the posix-calls, and doesn't do 
anything that would explain your observed behavior. The GIL is not the 
issue here either - it won't interfer with blocking IO.

Diez


From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Aug 14 06:55:07 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 12:55:07 +0200
Subject: get the pause status from amarok 2.1
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7eku4bF2gtku3U2@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Sleepy Cabbage schrieb:
> As the title says, I'm trying to find a way to get the pause status from 
> amarok 2.1.
> 
> I'm running kubuntu 9.04 with kde 4.2.2, python 2.6.2.
> 
> Thanks in advance.

Not at my linux-system right now, but dcop and the respective 
python-module should help.

Diez


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Aug 14 06:58:30 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 14 Aug 2009 10:58:30 GMT
Subject: need help calculating point between two coordinates.
References: <2d059a29-933e-4e2c-8730-f1f2688af26c@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <029533b3$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:26:54 -0700, PeteDK wrote:

> Hi there
> 
> I'am working on a route comparison tool for carpools.
> 
> The route comparison is based on 'steps' retrieved from google maps
> GDirection. These steps vary in length and i use the coordinates at the
> beginning of each "step". However, sometimes the distance of these steps
> is too long(ex. driving 30-40 km. on the freeway). Therefore i would
> like to calculate/find the coordinate located in between two given
> coordinates.
> Lets say one step starts at:
> 56.043185,9.922714
> and ends at:
> 56.234287,9.864521
> 
> I would then like to calculate the point right in the middle of these
> coordinates.

Can you assume that the coordinate system is virtually flat between those 
points? That is, are the distances small enough that the curvature of the 
earth isn't relevant?

If so, the following should be close enough:

def midpoint(a, b):
    """Return the two-dimensional point midway between points a and b."""
    x = (a[0] + b[0])/2.0
    y = (a[1] + b[1])/2.0
    return (x, y)

Otherwise, you can probably start here:

http://www.geomidpoint.com/methods.html

http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/results.html?contexts=drmath&levels=college&passed_id=51416&passed_title=College+Physics&search_cats=no&textsearch=spherical&textsearch_bool_type=and&topics=physics


-- 
Steven


From keith.hughitt at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 07:01:09 2009
From: keith.hughitt at gmail.com (pwnedd)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 04:01:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Database query execution times in Python?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <24870050.post@talk.nabble.com> 
Message-ID: <24969867.post@talk.nabble.com>


> Look up EXPLAIN

Thanks for the suggestion. I don't see any option to have EXPLAIN display
the query time though?

-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Database-query-execution-times-in-Python--tp24870050p24969867.html
Sent from the Python - python-list mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From anand at esi-india.com  Fri Aug 14 07:01:21 2009
From: anand at esi-india.com (Anand K Rayudu)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 16:31:21 +0530
Subject: How to reset document string
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <4A854401.9070500@esi-india.com>

Dear Carl,

Your ideas are extremely good, and I liked idea 2 especially, based on 
that I am considering following approach.
Eg: let us say I have module named myModule and exposing myModule.myAPI
So I will now rename myModule as _myModule and write a python layer with 
myModule

So my python layer will look like this

file name myModule.py

import _myModule

def myAPI(arg1, arg2):
    """
   @param  arg1 help string
   @param  arg2 help string
   """"
       _myModule.myAPI(arg1,arg2) # actual API

So I will provide mechanism which reads the help files and generates 
this binding python file and reload the module,
So now my python editor has the new python strings.
Also another advantages of this approach is if customer choses his own 
IDE he will still get the documentation of our APIs, by just ensuring 
these python files are in PYTHON_PATH
I think this is better approach, kindly please let me know your comments



Regards,
Anand


  

 
> On Aug 7, 2:54 am, Anand K Rayudu  wrote:
>   
>> Dear All,
>>
>> We have extended and embedded python into my our application.
>> We exposed few APIs to python using
>>
>>  Py_InitModule("myModuleName", myMethods);
>> where my methods are
>>
>> static PyMethodDef VistaDbMethods[] = {
>>    { (char *)"myAPI",_myAPICFunctionPtr ,METH_VARARGS,"usage: MyHelp)" }
>>
>> Now problem is ml_doc (Document string). Most of the time the strings
>> given by development team is not descriptive enough, so support team
>> want to enhance these docstring on need basis and supply to customer
>> The idea is we will provide get latest help option from application,
>> which will contact our webserver or allow user to pick new help
>> document,  which will re apply the help on fly.
>>  From then on our script editors will show the new enhanced help.
>> How do I achieve this.
>>     
>
> Sounds very cool.  I have a few ideas.
>
> 1. Since you say you are embedding Python in your application, the
> most direct way might be to modify the Python interpreter to allow the
> __doc__ attribute to be changed.  You'd have to modify the PyCFunction
> type (defined in methodobject.h and methodobject.c) to allow
> overriding the compiled-in doc field.
>
> 2. Instead of replacing the __doc__ attribute of the function, just
> replace the whole function with a wrapper.  So, for instance, if your
> application decides to update the docstring for myModuleName.myAPI(),
> instead of running code like this:
>
>     myModuleName.myAPI.__doc__ = 'new docstring'
>
> run code like this:
>
>     def create_wrapper(func,docstring):
>         def wrapper(*args):
>             return func(*args)
>         wrapper.__doc__ = doc
>         return wrapper
>     myModuleName.myAPI = create_wrapper(
>                  myModuleName.myAPI,'new docstring')
>
> So now myApi is a Python function with the new docstring that calls
> the old function.  (Note: if you are concerned with efficiency, it's
> possible to write a wrapper in C that has very little overhead.)
>
> This approach has minor disadvantages (such as if any code write from
> myModuleName import myAPI--it won't see the new version) but it may be
> the easiest approach.
>
> 3. Instead of customizing the __doc__ attribute, store any custom
> docstrings in a dictionary keyed by the function.
>
>     custom_doc[myModuleName.myApi] = 'new docstring'
>
> Your script editor, when looking for documentation, will first search
> in this custom area to see if the docstring has been overridden; if
> so, use that; if not, use the docstring.  Something like this:
>
>     def documentation_to_use_in_script_editor(func):
>         try:
>             return custom_doc[func]
>         except KeyError:
>             return func.__doc__
>
> That has the negative of the special docstring not being visible at an
> interactive prompt.
>
>
> I have given you some fairly vague answers, hopefully that'll give you
> some idea.  It sounds like you have an ambitious project, suggesting
> that you are probably good enough to implement the suggestions.
>
>
> Carl Banks
>   

-------------- next part --------------
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From matiassurdi at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 07:30:39 2009
From: matiassurdi at gmail.com (Matias)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:30:39 +0200
Subject: python-ldap and encodings
Message-ID: 

Hi!

I'm using python-ldap to create some entries on my openldap server.

The problem is that some of those entries have accented characters and 
unicode text in general.

I'm wondering if there is any example or documentation on how to add
or modify ldap objects whose values contains non-ascii characters,
such as accents, and so on. As far as I understand, those values
should be encoded using base64, but if I do that, I don't know how to
indicate in the modlist that this is the encoded value and not the
value itself.

Any help will be bery appreciated.


Matias.



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Aug 14 07:39:50 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 12:39:50 +0100
Subject: Format Code Repeat Counts?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	
	
Message-ID: <4A854D06.1010503@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Scott David Daniels wrote:
> MRAB wrote:
>> The shortest I can come up with is:
>>     "[" + "][".join(letters) + "]"
> 
> Maybe a golf shot:
>       "][".join(letters).join("[]")
> 
Even shorter:

     "["+"][".join(letters)+"]"

:-)


From matiassurdi at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 07:45:09 2009
From: matiassurdi at gmail.com (Matias)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:45:09 +0200
Subject: python-ldap and encodings
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Matias wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> I'm using python-ldap to create some entries on my openldap server.
> 
> The problem is that some of those entries have accented characters and 
> unicode text in general.
> 
> I'm wondering if there is any example or documentation on how to add
> or modify ldap objects whose values contains non-ascii characters,
> such as accents, and so on. As far as I understand, those values
> should be encoded using base64, but if I do that, I don't know how to
> indicate in the modlist that this is the encoded value and not the
> value itself.
> 
> Any help will be bery appreciated.
> 
> 
> Matias.
> 


Nevermind.... I was doing something really stupid.Don't ask please :-)



From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Fri Aug 14 08:13:46 2009
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (greg)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 00:13:46 +1200
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a Serial
	port?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7el2mqF2gi53eU1@mid.individual.net>

Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:

> port = open("/dev/ttyS0","r+b",0)
> 
> What I would really like is to have two threads - one that does blocking input 
> waiting for a character, and one that examines an output queue and transmits 
> the stuff it finds.

You can't read and write with the same stdio file object
at the same time. Odd things tend to happen if you try.

You need to open *two* file objects, one for reading
and one for writing:

   fr = open("/dev/ttyS0","rb",0)
   fw = open("/dev/ttyS0","wb",0)

and give fr to the reading thread and fw to the
writing thread.

You could also try avoiding file objects altogether
and use the raw system calls in the os module. Since
you're not using any buffering, there's little reason
to use the stdio layer. If you do that, you should be
able to use the same file descriptor for reading and
writing without any trouble.

-- 
Greg


From t.gkikopoulos at dundee.ac.uk  Fri Aug 14 08:52:11 2009
From: t.gkikopoulos at dundee.ac.uk (trias)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 05:52:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: anyone with genomewide microarray analysis experience ?
Message-ID: <24971224.post@talk.nabble.com>


Hi,

 I am trying to analyse some biological data from microarray experiments.
Different experiments have been stored in a SQL database.

 One of the things I would like to do is to fetch all data from a certain
distance from gene ATGs say 100+/- bp and calculate the bp average over all
genes over this region. 

 The microarray data has been normalised over each bp

Does anyone have some scripts I could use for this purpose. I work with
S.cerevisiae

Thank you
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/anyone-with-genomewide-microarray-analysis-experience---tp24971224p24971224.html
Sent from the Python - python-list mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From istvan.albert at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 09:13:38 2009
From: istvan.albert at gmail.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 06:13:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: anyone with genomewide microarray analysis experience ?
References: 
Message-ID: <10e21ef1-0c13-4810-bbe2-79349099c85b@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 14, 8:52?am, trias  wrote:

> Does anyone have some scripts I could use for this purpose. I work with
> S.cerevisiae

Since the largest chromosome on the yeast genome is around 4 million
bp, the easiest way to accomplish your goal is to create a list of the
same size as the chromosome, then populate this list by mapping the
genomic index to the list index.

After doing this your problem simplifies to slicing the list around
the coordinates of interest.

You'll be done in minutes.

i.


From ml at well-adjusted.de  Fri Aug 14 09:17:22 2009
From: ml at well-adjusted.de (Jochen Schulz)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:17:22 +0200
Subject: anyone with genomewide microarray analysis experience ?
In-Reply-To: <24971224.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <24971224.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <20090814131721.GM19479@wasteland.homelinux.net>

trias:
> 
>  One of the things I would like to do is to fetch all data from a certain
> distance from gene ATGs say 100+/- bp and calculate the bp average over all
> genes over this region. 

I know absolutely nothing about your problem domain, but if your
distance function is metric, you can use this:

http://well-adjusted.de/mspace.py

or that:

http://code.activestate.com/recipes/572156/

The latter (by Baerophile) is fast, the former (by me) has more
features. Baerophile has even faster implementations (non-Python) as
well.

J.
-- 
I am worried that my dreams pale in comparison beside TV docu-soaps.
[Agree]   [Disagree]
                 
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From cjw at ncf.ca  Fri Aug 14 09:23:17 2009
From: cjw at ncf.ca (Colin J. Williams)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:23:17 -0400
Subject: trouble with reload
In-Reply-To: 
References: <24956946.post@talk.nabble.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Terry Reedy wrote:
> Dr. Phillip M. Feldman wrote:
>> According to the Python documentation, 'reload' reloads a previously 
>> imported
>> module (so that changes made via an external editor will be 
>> effective). But, when I try to use this command, I get the following 
>> error message:
>>
>> TypeError: reload() argument must be module
>>
>> Any suggestions will be appreciated.
> 
> Besides the other answers, do not use reload. It is removed in Py3 
> because it cannot be made to work as people reasonably expect.
> 
> tjr
> 
It's typically a user module that needs to be reloaded.

It seems that  del sys.modules['moduleName'] has no effect.

Is there some other way of ensuring that any import goes to moduleName.py, 
instead of moduleName.pyc?

Colin W.


From alan.isaac at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 09:26:02 2009
From: alan.isaac at gmail.com (Alan G Isaac)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:26:02 GMT
Subject: csv.DictWriter.write_header()
In-Reply-To: <68b9136d-fa0b-42dc-addf-02d338da34cd@z4g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	
	<68b9136d-fa0b-42dc-addf-02d338da34cd@z4g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

> On Aug 13, 1:15 pm, Alan G Isaac  wrote:
>> I do not understand the reason for your silly, sarcastic response.


On 8/13/2009 7:58 AM John Machin apparently wrote:
> Duck typing: ask a silly question, get a silly answer.

Maybe if you learned to be a more generous reader,
fewer questions would look "silly" to you.


On 8/13/2009 7:58 AM John Machin apparently wrote:
> I can imagine that one might (without reading the source) make do with
> the published APIs:

Now you get it.

> On Aug 13, 1:15 pm, Alan G Isaac  wrote:
>> So my question was, would this improve the class from
>> a usability perspective?

On 8/13/2009 7:58 AM John Machin apparently wrote:
> Of course.

Thank you,
Alan


From david.mcwright at usbfmi.com  Fri Aug 14 09:29:22 2009
From: david.mcwright at usbfmi.com (dippim)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 06:29:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: implementing descriptors
References: <39aff5a5-97ec-41f7-ab26-6e4d842b9c5c@r33g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <564bdae4-8b2c-440b-bc18-f76a5fdc60c2@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 14, 5:45?am, Jean-Michel Pichavant 
wrote:
> Emile van Sebille wrote:
> > On 8/13/2009 3:17 PM dippim said...
> >> I am new to Python and I have a question about descriptors. ?If I have
> >> a class as written below, is there a way to use descriptors to be
> >> certain that the datetime in start is always before the one in end?
>
> >> class foo(object):
> >> ? ?def __init__(self,a = None,b = None)
> >> ? ? ? self.start = a
> >> ? ? ? self.end = b
>
> >> from datetime import datetime
> >> c = datetime(2009,8,13,6,15,0)
> >> d = datetime(2009,8,14,12,0,0)
> >> afoo = foo(c,d)
>
> >> For instance, if the following code were run, I would like to instance
> >> of foo to switch the start and end times.
>
> >> afoo.start = datetime(2010,8,13,6,15,0)
>
> >> I was thinking of using the __set__ descriptor to catch the assignment
> >> and reverse the values if necessary,
>
> > why not...
>
> > class foo(object):
> > ? ?def __init__(self,a = None,b = None)
> > ? ? ? self.start = min(a,b)
> > ? ? ? self.end = max(a,b)
>
> > Emile
>
> or
>
> class foo(object):
> ? ? def __init__(self, start, end)
> ? ? ? ?self.start = start
> ? ? ? ?self.end = end
>
> Problem solved by design :o)
>
> JM

Emile and JM,

   Thanks for the response.  However, these solution only work at
instantiation.  If I change the value of start or end after
instantiation, then I can make start or end whatever I like without
regard to order.



From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Fri Aug 14 09:38:15 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:38:15 +0200
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a Serial
	port?
In-Reply-To: <7eku38F2gtku3U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: 
	<7eku38F2gtku3U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <200908141538.15798.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Friday 14 August 2009 12:54:32 Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

>
> How about using pyserial? With that, I never had any problems accessing
> the the serial ports, and AFAIK no duplex-problems as well. And I
> seriously doubt that these are a python-related problem - python only
> has a very thin, direct layer above the posix-calls, and doesn't do
> anything that would explain your observed behavior. The GIL is not the
> issue here either - it won't interfer with blocking IO.

I will have a look at pyserial - have never used it before.

I agree that it is probably not a Python issue, and that the GIL is 
irelevant  - I was hoping that someone had already travelled the road and 
could give me a signpost.

In the meantime I have had another idea which I have also not tried yet, 
namely to do independent opens for reading and writing, to give me two file 
instances instead of one, and to try with that.  I have no idea if it would 
make any difference, or even work at all.

My normal stuff works, but I do not like it as it is essentially busy looping 
with short sleeps in between. In the eBox, it uses most of the processor just 
to move a few bytes of I/O in and out between the serial port and the TCP/IP,
and struggles to do that better than five times a second, while the message 
time on the 115200 baud port is only about 2 milliseconds.

- Hendrik


From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Aug 14 09:39:31 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:39:31 +0200
Subject: implementing descriptors
In-Reply-To: <564bdae4-8b2c-440b-bc18-f76a5fdc60c2@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
References: <39aff5a5-97ec-41f7-ab26-6e4d842b9c5c@r33g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<564bdae4-8b2c-440b-bc18-f76a5fdc60c2@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7el7ojF2gggrvU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

dippim schrieb:
> On Aug 14, 5:45 am, Jean-Michel Pichavant 
> wrote:
>> Emile van Sebille wrote:
>>> On 8/13/2009 3:17 PM dippim said...
>>>> I am new to Python and I have a question about descriptors.  If I have
>>>> a class as written below, is there a way to use descriptors to be
>>>> certain that the datetime in start is always before the one in end?
>>>> class foo(object):
>>>>    def __init__(self,a = None,b = None)
>>>>       self.start = a
>>>>       self.end = b
>>>> from datetime import datetime
>>>> c = datetime(2009,8,13,6,15,0)
>>>> d = datetime(2009,8,14,12,0,0)
>>>> afoo = foo(c,d)
>>>> For instance, if the following code were run, I would like to instance
>>>> of foo to switch the start and end times.
>>>> afoo.start = datetime(2010,8,13,6,15,0)
>>>> I was thinking of using the __set__ descriptor to catch the assignment
>>>> and reverse the values if necessary,
>>> why not...
>>> class foo(object):
>>>    def __init__(self,a = None,b = None)
>>>       self.start = min(a,b)
>>>       self.end = max(a,b)
>>> Emile
>> or
>>
>> class foo(object):
>>     def __init__(self, start, end)
>>        self.start = start
>>        self.end = end
>>
>> Problem solved by design :o)
>>
>> JM
> 
> Emile and JM,
> 
>    Thanks for the response.  However, these solution only work at
> instantiation.  If I change the value of start or end after
> instantiation, then I can make start or end whatever I like without
> regard to order.
> 

But for that, you don't need descriptors. All you need is a property:

class Foo(object):

    def __init__(self, start, end):
        self._start = start
        self._end = end


    @property
    def start(self):
        return start


    @start.setter
    def start(self, value):
        if value >= self._end:
           raise ValueError, "Tried to set a value greater than end!"
        self._start = value

    # repeat for end, switch relational op


Diez





From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Fri Aug 14 09:48:08 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:48:08 +0200
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a Serial
	port?
In-Reply-To: <7el2mqF2gi53eU1@mid.individual.net>
References: 
	<7el2mqF2gi53eU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <200908141548.08235.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Friday 14 August 2009 14:13:46 greg wrote:

> You can't read and write with the same stdio file object
> at the same time. Odd things tend to happen if you try.
>
> You need to open *two* file objects, one for reading
> and one for writing:
>
>    fr = open("/dev/ttyS0","rb",0)
>    fw = open("/dev/ttyS0","wb",0)
>
> and give fr to the reading thread and fw to the
> writing thread.

Does this actually work without somehow falling foul of the fact that 
the /dev/ttyS0 is only one thing?  - I know that there is no physical reason 
for not being able to go in and out at the same time - in my embedded stuff I 
do that routinely - but that is all assembler running on bare metal so it is  
under my own control.

>
> You could also try avoiding file objects altogether
> and use the raw system calls in the os module. Since
> you're not using any buffering, there's little reason
> to use the stdio layer. If you do that, you should be
> able to use the same file descriptor for reading and
> writing without any trouble.

Thanks for this - I now have my weekend cut out for me...

- Hendrik



From david.mcwright at usbfmi.com  Fri Aug 14 09:48:11 2009
From: david.mcwright at usbfmi.com (dippim)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 06:48:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: implementing descriptors
References: <39aff5a5-97ec-41f7-ab26-6e4d842b9c5c@r33g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 14, 2:34?am, Raymond Hettinger  wrote:
> [David]
>
>
>
> > I am new to Python and I have a question about descriptors. ?If I have
> > a class as written below, is there a way to use descriptors to be
> > certain that the datetime in start is always before the one in end?
>
> > class foo(object):
> > ? ?def __init__(self,a = None,b = None)
> > ? ? ? self.start = a
> > ? ? ? self.end = b
>
> > from datetime import datetime
> > c = datetime(2009,8,13,6,15,0)
> > d = datetime(2009,8,14,12,0,0)
> > afoo = foo(c,d)
>
> > For instance, if the following code were run, I would like to instance
> > of foo to switch the start and end times.
>
> > afoo.start = datetime(2010,8,13,6,15,0)
>
> > I was thinking of using the __set__ descriptor to catch the assignment
> > and reverse the values if necessary, but I can't figure out how to
> > determine which values is being set.
>
> You're on the right track, but it is easier to use property() than to
> write your own custom descriptor with __get__ and __set__.
>
> class foo(object):
> ? ? def __init__(self,a = None,b = None):
> ? ? ? ? self._start = a
> ? ? ? ? self._end = b
> ? ? def get_start(self):
> ? ? ? ? return self._start
> ? ? def set_start(self, value):
> ? ? ? ? if self._end is None or value < self._end:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? self._start = value
> ? ? ? ? else:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? self._end = value
> ? ? start = property(get_start, set_start)
> ? ? def get_end(self):
> ? ? ? ? return self._end
> ? ? def set_end(self, value):
> ? ? ? ? if self._start is None or value > self._start:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? self._end = value
> ? ? ? ? else:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? self._start = value
> ? ? end = property(get_end, set_end)
>
> Raymond

Raymond,
   This functionality is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!  I'll
be using this to solve my problem.

   Now that I'm on the right track, I'm still a bit confused about how
__get__ and __set__ are useful.  Admittedly, I don't need to
understand them to solve this problem, but perhaps they may be useful
in the future.  If I wanted to solve this problem using __get__ and
__set__ could it be done?

Thanks Again!


From exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  Fri Aug 14 09:58:37 2009
From: exarkun at twistedmatrix.com (exarkun at twistedmatrix.com)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:58:37 -0000
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a Serial
	port?
In-Reply-To: <200908141538.15798.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
References: 
	<7eku38F2gtku3U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<200908141538.15798.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
Message-ID: <20090814135837.11286.700809778.divmod.xquotient.174@localhost.localdomain>

On 01:38 pm, hendrik at microcorp.co.za wrote:
>On Friday 14 August 2009 12:54:32 Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
>>
>>How about using pyserial? With that, I never had any problems 
>>accessing
>>the the serial ports, and AFAIK no duplex-problems as well. And I
>>seriously doubt that these are a python-related problem - python only
>>has a very thin, direct layer above the posix-calls, and doesn't do
>>anything that would explain your observed behavior. The GIL is not the
>>issue here either - it won't interfer with blocking IO.
>
>I will have a look at pyserial - have never used it before.
>
>I agree that it is probably not a Python issue, and that the GIL is
>irelevant  - I was hoping that someone had already travelled the road 
>and
>could give me a signpost.
>
>In the meantime I have had another idea which I have also not tried 
>yet,
>namely to do independent opens for reading and writing, to give me two 
>file
>instances instead of one, and to try with that.  I have no idea if it 
>would
>make any difference, or even work at all.
>
>My normal stuff works, but I do not like it as it is essentially busy 
>looping
>with short sleeps in between. In the eBox, it uses most of the 
>processor just
>to move a few bytes of I/O in and out between the serial port and the 
>TCP/IP,
>and struggles to do that better than five times a second, while the 
>message
>time on the 115200 baud port is only about 2 milliseconds.

One strategy you might employ to get rid of the busy looping is to use 
Twisted and its serial port support.  This also addresses the full- 
duplex issue you've raised.

Jean-Paul


From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Aug 14 10:03:22 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 16:03:22 +0200
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a Serial
	port?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<7el2mqF2gi53eU1@mid.individual.net>
	
Message-ID: <7el95aF2h0d12U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Hendrik van Rooyen schrieb:
> On Friday 14 August 2009 14:13:46 greg wrote:
> 
>> You can't read and write with the same stdio file object
>> at the same time. Odd things tend to happen if you try.
>>
>> You need to open *two* file objects, one for reading
>> and one for writing:
>>
>>    fr = open("/dev/ttyS0","rb",0)
>>    fw = open("/dev/ttyS0","wb",0)
>>
>> and give fr to the reading thread and fw to the
>> writing thread.
> 
> Does this actually work without somehow falling foul of the fact that 
> the /dev/ttyS0 is only one thing?  - I know that there is no physical reason 
> for not being able to go in and out at the same time - in my embedded stuff I 
> do that routinely - but that is all assembler running on bare metal so it is  
> under my own control.
> 
>> You could also try avoiding file objects altogether
>> and use the raw system calls in the os module. Since
>> you're not using any buffering, there's little reason
>> to use the stdio layer. If you do that, you should be
>> able to use the same file descriptor for reading and
>> writing without any trouble.
> 
> Thanks for this - I now have my weekend cut out for me...

You should *really* just use pyserial. No hassle, instant satisfaction.

Diez


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Fri Aug 14 10:04:14 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 07:04:14 -0700
Subject: Python "and" behavior
In-Reply-To: <4A84B935.8080809@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <10da5db0-ba83-42a1-8ce8-95d13b513ca1@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com>	<4A84B4E2.9080300@islandtraining.com>
	<4A84B935.8080809@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <4A856EDE.6010205@stoneleaf.us>

MRAB wrote:
> Gary Herron wrote:
> 
>> goldtech wrote:
>>
>>> Could you explain or link me to an explanation of this? Been using
>>> Python for a while but not sure I understand what's happening below.
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>>>> ss=1 and "fffff"
>>>>>> ss
>>>>>>         
>>>
>>> 'fffff'
>>>  
>>>
>>>>>> ss=0 and "fffff"
>>>>>> ss
>>>>>>         
>>>
>>> 0
>>>   
>>
>>
>> Python's Boolean operators don't turn arbitrary values into True and 
>> False values.  If you use it in any conditional, you'll get the same 
>> result as if it did, but it is occasionally it's nice to get the 
>> actual values used in the "and" instead of having the value distilled 
>> down to a True/False.
>>
>>
>>  >From the Python manual:
>> These are the Boolean operations, ordered by ascending priority:
>>
>> Operation     Result     Notes
>> |x or y|     if x is false, then y, else x     (1)
>> |x and y|     if x is false, then x, else y     (1)
>> |not x|     if x is false, then |True|, else |False|     (2)
>>
> The Pythonic table would be:
> 
> Operation     Result
> |x or y|     x if x else y
> |x and y|     y if x else x
> |not x|     False if x else False
> 
> :-)

That last should be
|not x|   False if x else True

~Ethan~


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Aug 14 10:07:31 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 14 Aug 2009 07:07:31 -0700
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

In article <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656 at h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>,
Douglas Alan   wrote:
>
>My friend begs to differ with the above. It would be much better for
>debugging if Python generated a parsing error for unrecognized escape
>sequences, rather than leaving them unchanged. g++ outputs a warning
>for such escape sequences, for instance. This is what I would consider
>to be the correct behavior. (Actually, I think it should just generate
>a fatal parsing error, but a warning is okay too.)

Well, then, the usual response applies: create a patch, discuss it on
python-ideas, and see what happens.

(That is, nobody has previously complained so vociferously IIRC, and
adding a warning is certainly within the bounds of what's theoretically
acceptable.)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I saw `cout' being shifted "Hello world" times to the left and stopped
right there."  --Steve Gonedes


From invalid at invalid  Fri Aug 14 10:09:35 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:09:35 -0500
Subject: coding for multiple versions of python
References:  <4A84F913.9090901@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-14, Martin v. L?wis  wrote:

>> I'm guessing I need to configure cvs to copy files to both
>> locations whenever I commit. Does that sound right? Is there a
>> better way I'm not thinking of?

Just use one set of source files.

> If the set of files doesn't change too often, you can use symlinks.
> That's how Debian currently installs Python packages for multiple
> versions on a single system.
>
> Specifically, put the source code into /net/source/python/foo/*.py.
> Then, on each system, put symlinks to all .py files into
> lib/site-packages/foo. Then Python will place the .pyc files next
> to the symlinks, not next to the actual .py files.

Why would he need two sets of .py files?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! I'm EMOTIONAL
                                  at               now because I have
                               visi.com            MERCHANDISING CLOUT!!


From invalid at invalid  Fri Aug 14 10:12:20 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:12:20 -0500
Subject: socket.send : (11, 'Resource temporarily unavailable')
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-14, Gabriel Rossetti  wrote:

> I get a (11, 'Resource temporarily unavailable') error when I
> try to send a file using a socket. Is there s size limit?

No, there's no size limit.  However, there is a bandwidth
limit.  You can't shove bytes into the pipe faster than they
come out the other end (at least not over the long term).

> I tried sending a smaller file and ii poses no problem. Am I
> doing something wrong?

Yes.  If you want to have the socket in non-blocking mode, then
you have to catch EAGAIN and retry the operation.

> def sendMessage(host, port, msg):
>
>     if isinstance(msg, unicode):
>         msg = msg.encode("utf-8")
>    
>     sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
>     sock.connect((host, port))
>     sock.setblocking(0)
>     totalsent = 0
>     while totalsent < len(msg):
>         sent = sock.send(msg[totalsent:])
>         if sent == 0:
>             raise RuntimeError, "socket connection broken"
>         totalsent = totalsent + sent
>     sock.close()

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! I didn't order any
                                  at               WOO-WOO ... Maybe a YUBBA
                               visi.com            ... But no WOO-WOO!


From invalid at invalid  Fri Aug 14 10:17:35 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:17:35 -0500
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a
	Serial port?
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-14, Hendrik van Rooyen  wrote:

> In the past, on this group, I have made statements that said
> that on Linux, the serial port handling somehow does not allow
> transmitting and receiving at the same time,

That's not true.  Linux/Unix does and always has supported
full-duplex communications on serial ports.

> and nobody contradicted me.

Um, sorry, I guess.

> What I would really like is to have two threads - one that
> does blocking input waiting for a character, and one that
> examines an output queue and transmits the stuff it finds.

That's the traditional way of doing full-duplex serial IO on
Unix back in the day before the select/poll system calls were
available.

> When I try to do this, it does not seem to work - as far as I
> can see, it is as if the underlying implementation is somehow
> single threaded - if it is waiting for a received character,
> it waits until something comes in before it will transmit
> anything.

Nope.   I'll try to dig up an example, but that approach has
always worked for me.

> So if you are talking to a device that does not respond, the
> whole thing freezes up waiting for a character that never
> comes, and nothing is transmitted either, despite the call to 
> port.write(somestring).  The write blocks, and everything
> stops, waiting for the receipt to finish.

I've never observed that behavior.

> Is there a way to get full duplex, so that the transmit and
> receive are independent of each other?

That's the way serial ports work on Unix.

> Or are we stuck with a disk-like model that forces a sequence
> on reads and writes?

No.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Like I always say
                                  at               -- nothing can beat
                               visi.com            the BRATWURST here in
                                                   DUSSELDORF!!


From invalid at invalid  Fri Aug 14 10:19:04 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:19:04 -0500
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a
	Serial port?
References: 
	<7eku38F2gtku3U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-14, Hendrik van Rooyen  wrote:

> In the meantime I have had another idea which I have also not tried yet, 
> namely to do independent opens for reading and writing, to give me two file 
> instances instead of one, and to try with that.  I have no idea if it would 
> make any difference, or even work at all.

That should work (and shouldn't make any difference)

> My normal stuff works, but I do not like it as it is
> essentially busy looping with short sleeps in between. In the
> eBox, it uses most of the processor just to move a few bytes
> of I/O in and out between the serial port and the TCP/IP, and
> struggles to do that better than five times a second, while
> the message time on the 115200 baud port is only about 2
> milliseconds.

What platform are you using?  I suppose it's possible that
there's something broken in the serial driver for that
particular hardware.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! I feel ... JUGULAR ...
                                  at               
                               visi.com            


From invalid at invalid  Fri Aug 14 10:19:36 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:19:36 -0500
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a
	Serial port?
References: 
	<7eku38F2gtku3U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<200908141538.15798.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
	
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-14, exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  wrote:

> One strategy you might employ to get rid of the busy looping
> is to use Twisted and its serial port support.  This also
> addresses the full- duplex issue you've raised.

There are no such full-dulex issues.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! The PINK SOCKS were
                                  at               ORIGINALLY from 1952!!
                               visi.com            But they went to MARS
                                                   around 1953!!


From despen at verizon.net  Fri Aug 14 10:20:12 2009
From: despen at verizon.net (despen at verizon.net)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 14:20:12 GMT
Subject: A Exhibition Of Tech Geekers Incompetence: Emacs whitespace-mode
References: <61ef4451-d6b6-493b-b4a0-1822a901ca8d@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

"Martin P. Hellwig"  writes:

> Sounds like a bad case of STRIS
> http://blog.dcuktec.com/2009/08/stris.html

I believe the correct technical term for it is potty mouth.


From invalid at invalid  Fri Aug 14 10:28:26 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:28:26 -0500
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a
	Serial port?
References: 
	<7el2mqF2gi53eU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <1aGdnessDpUX6RjXnZ2dnUVZ_gCdnZ2d@posted.visi>

On 2009-08-14, greg  wrote:
> Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:
>
>> port = open("/dev/ttyS0","r+b",0)
>> 
>> What I would really like is to have two threads - one that
>> does blocking input waiting for a character, and one that
>> examines an output queue and transmits the stuff it finds.
>
> You can't read and write with the same stdio file object at
> the same time. Odd things tend to happen if you try.
>
> You need to open *two* file objects, one for reading and one
> for writing:
>
>    fr = open("/dev/ttyS0","rb",0)
>    fw = open("/dev/ttyS0","wb",0)

Doh!  It didn't even occur to me that somebody would use python
"file" objects for serial ports, and I completely overlooked
the fact that the OP was doing that.

In short: don't do that -- it just messes things up.

> and give fr to the reading thread and fw to the writing
> thread.
>
> You could also try avoiding file objects altogether and use
> the raw system calls in the os module.

That's definitely the way you should do serial port I/O.

> Since you're not using any buffering, there's little reason to
> use the stdio layer. If you do that, you should be able to use
> the same file descriptor for reading and writing without any
> trouble.

Do not use Python file objects.  Use the underlying file
descriptors: os.open(), os.read(), os.write().  That will
almost certainly solve your problems.

If you want examples of os.xxxxx() usage, below is the
PosixSerial.py module that I use for Linux-only applications.
For cross-platform work, use pyserial (whose Posix support is
based on the code below).


---------------------------------PosixSerial.py------------------------------
# Posix serial port class
# Copyright 2001-2009 Grant B. Edwards  

# You may use this code in any way you like so long as you
# leave this copyright notice.

# Though you are not required to, it would be nice if you send
# me a copy of bufixes or enhancements and allowed me to
# incorporate and distribute them.

import sys
import fcntl
import os
import struct
import termios
import string
import select

if string.split(sys.version)[0] > '2':
    TERMIOS = termios
else:
    import TERMIOS

# construct dictionaries for baud rate lookups

baudEnumToInt = {}
baudIntToEnum = {}
for rate in (0,50,75,110,134,150,200,300,600,1200,1800,2400,4800,9600,19200,38400,57600,115200,230400,460800,500000,576000,921600,1000000,1152000,1500000,2000000,2500000,3000000,3500000,4000000):
    try:
        i = eval('TERMIOS.B'+str(rate))
        baudEnumToInt[i]=rate
        baudIntToEnum[rate] = i
    except:
        pass

# Do not know if these are right for anything except Linux
if sys.platform[:5] == 'linux':
    TIOCMGET = 0x5415
    TIOCMBIS = 0x5416
    TIOCMBIC = 0x5417
    TIOCMSET = 0x5418
    
    TIOCM_LE   =  0x001
    TIOCM_DTR  =  0x002
    TIOCM_RTS  =  0x004
    TIOCM_ST   =  0x008
    TIOCM_SR   =  0x010
    TIOCM_CTS  =  0x020
    TIOCM_CAR  =  0x040
    TIOCM_RNG  =  0x080
    TIOCM_DSR  =  0x100
    TIOCM_CD   =  TIOCM_CAR
    TIOCM_RI   =  TIOCM_RNG
    TIOCM_OUT1 =  0x2000
    TIOCM_OUT2 =  0x4000
    
    TIOCM_zero_str = struct.pack('I',0)
    TIOCM_one_str = struct.pack('I',1)
    TIOCM_RTS_str = struct.pack('I',TIOCM_RTS)
    TIOCM_DTR_str = struct.pack('I',TIOCM_DTR)

portNotOpenError = ValueError('port not open')

class Port:
    """ An object wrapper for Posix serial ports """
    def __init__(self,path=None,noinit=False):
        self.fd = None
        if path:
            self.open(path,noinit)

    def __tcsetattr(self):
        termios.tcsetattr(self.fd,TERMIOS.TCSANOW,[self.iflag,self.oflag,self.cflag,self.lflag,self.ispeed,self.ospeed,self.cc])

    def __tcgetattr(self):
        self.iflag,self.oflag,self.cflag,self.lflag,self.ispeed,self.ospeed,self.cc = termios.tcgetattr(self.fd)

    def open(self,path,noinit):
        if self.fd:
            self.close()
        self.path = path
        self.fd = os.open(path,os.O_RDWR)
        self.__tcgetattr()
        if not noinit:
            self.iflag = 0
            self.oflag = 0
            self.lflag = 0
            self.__tcsetattr()

    def close(self):
        if self.fd:
            os.close(self.fd)
            self.fd = None
            
    def fileno(self):
        return self.fd;

    def _write(self,data):
        if not self.fd: raise portNotOpenError
        return os.write(self.fd,data)

    def write(self,data):
        if not self.fd: raise portNotOpenError
        t = len(data)
        d = data
        while t>0:
            n = os.write(self.fd,d)
            d = d[n:]
            t = t - n

    def read(self,size=1024,timeout=None):
        if not self.fd: raise portNotOpenError
        if timeout is None:
            return os.read(self.fd,size)
        else:
            r,w,e = select.select([self.fd],[],[self.fd],timeout)
            if r:
                return os.read(self.fd,size)
            else:
                raise "timeout"
                
            

    def baud(self,rate=None):
        if not self.fd: raise portNotOpenError

        if not (rate is None):
            try:
                b = baudIntToEnum[rate]
            except:
                raise ValueError,'invalid baud rate: '+str(rate)
            self.ispeed = b
            self.ospeed = b
            self.__tcsetattr()
        return baudEnumToInt[self.ispeed]

    def charLen(self,clen=None):
        if not self.fd: raise portNotOpenError
        if not clen is None:
            self.cflag = self.cflag & ~TERMIOS.CSIZE
            if clen == 8:
                self.cflag = self.cflag | TERMIOS.CS8
            elif clen == 7:
                self.cflag = self.cflag | TERMIOS.CS7
            elif clen == 6:
                self.cflag = self.cflag | TERMIOS.CS6
            elif clen == 5:
                self.cflag = self.cflag | TERMIOS.CS5
            else:
                raise ValueError,'invalid char len: '+str(clen)
            self.__tcsetattr()
        cs = self.cflag & TERMIOS.CSIZE
        if   cs == TERMIOS.CS8: 
            return 8
        elif cs == TERMIOS.CS7: 
            return 7
        elif cs == TERMIOS.CS6: 
            return 6
        elif cs == TERMIOS.CS5: 
            return 5
        else: 
            raise ValueError,'char len invalid'
            
    def parity(self,par=None):
        if not self.fd: raise portNotOpenError

        if not par is None:
            self.cflag = self.cflag & ~(TERMIOS.PARENB|TERMIOS.PARODD)
            if par == 'none':
                pass
            elif par == 'even':
                self.cflag = self.cflag | (TERMIOS.PARENB)
            elif par == 'odd':
                self.cflag = self.cflag | (TERMIOS.PARENB|TERMIOS.PARODD)
            else:
                raise ValueError,'invalid parity: '+str(par)
            self.__tcsetattr()
        if (self.cflag & TERMIOS.PARENB) == 0:
            return 'none'
        elif self.cflag & TERMIOS.PARODD:
            return 'odd'
        else:
            return 'even'

    def xonxoff(self,enable=None):
        if not self.fd: raise portNotOpenError
        if not enable is None:
            if enable:
                self.iflag = self.iflag | (TERMIOS.IXON|TERMIOS.IXOFF)
            else:
                self.iflag = self.iflag & ~(TERMIOS.IXON|TERMIOS.IXOFF)
            self.__tcsetattr()
        return (self.iflag & (TERMIOS.IXON|TERMIOS.IXOFF)) == (TERMIOS.IXON|TERMIOS.IXOFF)

    def rtscts(self,enable=None):
        if not self.fd: raise portNotOpenError
        if not enable is None:
            if enable:
                self.cflag = self.cflag | TERMIOS.CRTSCTS
            else:
                self.cflag = self.cflag & ~TERMIOS.CRTSCTS
            self.__tcsetattr()
        return (self.cflag & TERMIOS.CRTSCTS) != 0
        
    def cook(self,enable=None):
        if not self.fd: raise portNotOpenError
        if not enable is None:
            self.iflag = 0
            self.oflag = 0
            if enable:
                self.lflag = self.lflag | TERMIOS.ICANON
            else:
                self.lflag = self.lflag & ~TERMIOS.ICANON
            self.__tcsetattr()
        return (self.lflag & TERMIOS.ICANON) != 0

    def echo(self,enable=None):
        if not self.fd:
            raise portNotOpenError
        if not enable is None:
            self.iflag = 0
            self.oflag = 0
            if enable:
                self.lflag = self.lflag | TERMIOS.ECHO
            else:
                self.lflag = self.lflag & ~TERMIOS.ECHO
            self.__tcsetattr()
        return (self.lflag & TERMIOS.ECHO) != 0

    def __handleiflag(self,enable,mask):
        if not self.fd:
            raise portNotOpenError
        if not enable is None:
            if enable:
                self.iflag |= mask
            else:
                self.iflag &= ~mask
            self.__tcsetattr()
        return (self.iflag & mask) != 0

    def ignbrk(self,enable=None):
        return self.__handleiflag(enable,TERMIOS.IGNBRK)
    
    def parmrk(self,enable=None):
        return self.__handleiflag(enable,TERMIOS.PARMRK)
    
    def ignpar(self,enable=None):
        return self.__handleiflag(enable,TERMIOS.IGNPAR)
    
    def brkint(self,enable=None):
        return self.__handleiflag(enable,TERMIOS.BRKINT)

    def flushInput(self):
        if not self.fd:
            raise portNotOpenError
        termios.tcflush(self.fd,TERMIOS.TCIFLUSH)

    def flushOutput(self):
        if not self.fd:
            raise portNotOpenError
        termios.tcflush(self.fd,TERMIOS.TCOFLUSH)

    def flushAll(self):
        self.flushInput()
        self.flushOutput()
        
    def sendBreak(self,howlong=0):
        if not self.fd:
            raise portNotOpenError
        termios.tcsendbreak(self.fd,howlong)

    def drainOutput(self):
        if not self.fd: raise portNotOpenError
        termios.tcdrain(self.fd)

    def vmin(self,vm=None):
        if not self.fd: raise portNotOpenError
        if not vm is None:
            if vm<0 or vm>255:
                raise ValueError,'invalid vmin: '+str(vm)
            self.cc[TERMIOS.VMIN] = vm
            self.__tcsetattr()
        return self.cc[TERMIOS.VMIN]

    def vtime(self,vt=None):
        if not self.fd: raise portNotOpenError
        if not vt is None:
            if vt<0 or vt>255:
                raise ValueError,'invalid vtime: '+str(vt)
            self.cc[TERMIOS.VTIME] = vt
            self.__tcsetattr()
        return self.cc[TERMIOS.VTIME]

    def nonblocking(self):
        if not self.fd:
            raise portNotOpenError
        fcntl.fcntl(self.fd,fcntl.F_SETFL,os.O_NONBLOCK)

    def txCount(self):
        s = fcntl.ioctl(self.fd,termios.TIOCOUTQ,TIOCM_zero_str)
        return struct.unpack('I',s)[0]

    def rxCount(self):
        s = fcntl.ioctl(self.fd,termios.TIOCINQ,TIOCM_zero_str)
        return struct.unpack('I',s)[0]
    
    def resetRM(self,value):
        if value:
            v = TIOCM_one_str
        else:
            v = TIOCM_zero_str
        fcntl.ioctl(self.fd,0x525005,v)
    
    if sys.platform[:5] == 'linux':

        def DSR(self):
            if not self.fd: raise portNotOpenError
            s = fcntl.ioctl(self.fd,TIOCMGET,TIOCM_zero_str)
            return bool(struct.unpack('I',s)[0] & TIOCM_DSR)

        def CD(self):
            if not self.fd: raise portNotOpenError
            s = fcntl.ioctl(self.fd,TIOCMGET,TIOCM_zero_str)
            return bool(struct.unpack('I',s)[0] & TIOCM_CD)
            
        def RI(self):
            if not self.fd: raise portNotOpenError
            s = fcntl.ioctl(self.fd,TIOCMGET,TIOCM_zero_str)
            return bool(struct.unpack('I',s)[0] & TIOCM_RI)
    
    
        def CTS(self):
            if not self.fd: raise portNotOpenError
            s = fcntl.ioctl(self.fd,TIOCMGET,TIOCM_zero_str)
            return bool(struct.unpack('I',s)[0] & TIOCM_CTS)
    
    
        def DTR(self,on=None):
            if not self.fd: raise portNotOpenError
            if not on is None:
                if on:
                    fcntl.ioctl(self.fd,TIOCMBIS,TIOCM_DTR_str)
                else:
                    fcntl.ioctl(self.fd,TIOCMBIC,TIOCM_DTR_str)
            s = fcntl.ioctl(self.fd,TIOCMGET,TIOCM_zero_str)
            return bool(struct.unpack('I',s)[0] & TIOCM_DTR)

        
        def RTS(self,on=None):
            if not self.fd: raise portNotOpenError
            if not on is None:
                if on:
                    fcntl.ioctl(self.fd,TIOCMBIS,TIOCM_RTS_str)
                else:
                    fcntl.ioctl(self.fd,TIOCMBIC,TIOCM_RTS_str)
            s = fcntl.ioctl(self.fd,TIOCMGET,TIOCM_zero_str)
            return bool(struct.unpack('I',s)[0] & TIOCM_RTS)
    
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Maybe I should have
                                  at               asked for my Neutron Bomb
                               visi.com            in PAISLEY --


From exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  Fri Aug 14 10:40:06 2009
From: exarkun at twistedmatrix.com (exarkun at twistedmatrix.com)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 14:40:06 -0000
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a Serial
	port?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<7eku38F2gtku3U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<200908141538.15798.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
	
	
Message-ID: <20090814144006.11286.1931874476.divmod.xquotient.178@localhost.localdomain>

On 02:19 pm, invalid at invalid wrote:
>On 2009-08-14, exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  
>wrote:
>>One strategy you might employ to get rid of the busy looping
>>is to use Twisted and its serial port support.  This also
>>addresses the full- duplex issue you've raised.
>
>There are no such full-dulex issues.

There was a perceived issues.  Obviously it's possible to do full-duplex 
with Linux's serial port support (and all the other major platforms too, 
as far as I know), as long as you know how. :)  Twisted makes the how a 
lot simpler.

Jean-Paul


From davea at ieee.org  Fri Aug 14 10:48:00 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 10:48:00 -0400
Subject: implementing descriptors
In-Reply-To: 
References: <39aff5a5-97ec-41f7-ab26-6e4d842b9c5c@r33g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>	
	
Message-ID: <4A857920.1000008@ieee.org>

dippim wrote:
> On Aug 14, 2:34 am, Raymond Hettinger  wrote:
>   
>> [David]
>>
>>
>>
>>     
>>> I am new to Python and I have a question about descriptors.  If I have
>>> a class as written below, is there a way to use descriptors to be
>>> certain that the datetime in start is always before the one in end?
>>>       
>>> class foo(object):
>>>    def __init__(self,a =one,b = None)
>>>       self.start =
>>>       self.end =
>>>       
>>> from datetime import datetime
>>> c =atetime(2009,8,13,6,15,0)
>>> d =atetime(2009,8,14,12,0,0)
>>> afoo =oo(c,d)
>>>       
>>> For instance, if the following code were run, I would like to instance
>>> of foo to switch the start and end times.
>>>       
>>> afoo.start =atetime(2010,8,13,6,15,0)
>>>       
>>> I was thinking of using the __set__ descriptor to catch the assignment
>>> and reverse the values if necessary, but I can't figure out how to
>>> determine which values is being set.
>>>       
>> You're on the right track, but it is easier to use property() than to
>> write your own custom descriptor with __get__ and __set__.
>>
>> class foo(object):
>>     def __init__(self,a =one,b = None):
>>         self._start =
>>         self._end =
>>     def get_start(self):
>>         return self._start
>>     def set_start(self, value):
>>         if self._end is None or value < self._end:
>>             self._start =alue
>>         else:
>>             self._end =alue
>>     start =roperty(get_start, set_start)
>>     def get_end(self):
>>         return self._end
>>     def set_end(self, value):
>>         if self._start is None or value > self._start:
>>             self._end =alue
>>         else:
>>             self._start =alue
>>     end =roperty(get_end, set_end)
>>
>> Raymond
>>     
>
> Raymond,
>    This functionality is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!  I'll
> be using this to solve my problem.
>
>    Now that I'm on the right track, I'm still a bit confused about how
> __get__ and __set__ are useful.  Admittedly, I don't need to
> understand them to solve this problem, but perhaps they may be useful
> in the future.  If I wanted to solve this problem using __get__ and
> __set__ could it be done?
>
> Thanks Again!
>
>   
DANGER- WILL ROBINSON!

Don't use this code as-is.  There is a nasty surprise waiting for the 
caller when he sets start and end, and discovers that one of them gets 
thrown out, and an old value still remains.

obj= foo(3, 5)
obj.start = 8
obj.end = 12
print obj.start, obj.end

will print out  3, 12.    Not what the caller expected.

Four fixes, in order of preference:
0) Trust your user to read and obey your docstrings.  This was what JM 
was implying, by changing the names of the formal parameters.
1)  make a new method that sets both values, making these two properties 
readonly.  That new method would make sure the two parameters are 
self-consistent.  Making the actual values readonly can be done with a 
descriptor as well, or even a decorator.
2) Raise an exception in the getter methods if they're out of order
3) do the min/max logic on the getter methods, but I don't like that one 
at all.

DaveA



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Aug 14 10:49:47 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 16:49:47 +0200
Subject: callable virtual method
Message-ID: <4A85798B.6020501@sequans.com>

Hi fellows,

Does anyone know a way to write virtual methods (in one virtual class) 
that will raise an exception only if called without being overridden ?
Currently in the virtual method I'm checking that the class of the 
instance calling the method has defined that method as well.

Example:

class Stream(object):
    """Interface of all stream objects"""
    def resetStats(self):
        """Reset the stream statistics. All values a zeroed except the 
date."""
        _log.info('Reset statistics of %s' % self)
        if self.__class__.resetStats == Stream.resetStats:
            raise NotImplementedError()

It works but it's tedious, I have to add these 2 lines to every virtual 
method, changing the content of the 2 lines.

Maybe there is a nice/builtin way to do so (python 2.4)

JM


From davea at ieee.org  Fri Aug 14 10:53:35 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 10:53:35 -0400
Subject: coding for multiple versions of python
In-Reply-To: 
References:  <4A84F913.9090901@v.loewis.de>
	
Message-ID: <4A857A6F.5010401@ieee.org>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2009-08-14, Martin v. L?wis  wrote:
>
>   
>>> I'm guessing I need to configure cvs to copy files to both
>>> locations whenever I commit. Does that sound right? Is there a
>>> better way I'm not thinking of?
>>>       
>
> Just use one set of source files.
>
>   
>> If the set of files doesn't change too often, you can use symlinks.
>> That's how Debian currently installs Python packages for multiple
>> versions on a single system.
>>
>> Specifically, put the source code into /net/source/python/foo/*.py.
>> Then, on each system, put symlinks to all .py files into
>> lib/site-packages/foo. Then Python will place the .pyc files next
>> to the symlinks, not next to the actual .py files.
>>     
>
> Why would he need two sets of .py files?
>
>   
I can't speak for Martin, but his description doesn't have two sets of 
.py files, but two sets of symlinks pointing to the same .py files.  
It's the .pyc files that exist in two forms, since those are version 
dependent.

He's assuming:
    1) an OS that supports symlinks
    2) two versions of Python on same system
    3) one set of pure-python sources that want to stay in synch for 
both versions.




From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Fri Aug 14 11:04:26 2009
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 08:04:26 -0700
Subject: Format Code Repeat Counts?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 		
	
Message-ID: <8YGdnWA4YPxq5xjXnZ2dnUVZ_hti4p2d@pdx.net>

MRAB wrote:
> Scott David Daniels wrote:
>> MRAB wrote:
>>> The shortest I can come up with is:
>>>     "[" + "][".join(letters) + "]"
>>
>> Maybe a golf shot:
>>       "][".join(letters).join("[]")
>>
> Even shorter:
> 
>     "["+"][".join(letters)+"]"
> 
> :-)
I was going by PEP8 rules. ;-)

--Scott David Daniels
Scott David Daniels at Acm.Org


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Aug 14 11:24:42 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 14 Aug 2009 15:24:42 GMT
Subject: trouble with reload
References: <24956946.post@talk.nabble.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <02957215$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:23:17 -0400, Colin J. Williams wrote:

> It's typically a user module that needs to be reloaded.

What's a user module?


> It seems that  del sys.modules['moduleName'] has no effect.

sys.modules is just a dictionary, I find it hard to believe that deleting 
from it has no effect. It works for me:

>>> import sys
>>> import math
>>> 'math' in sys.modules
True
>>> del sys.modules['math']
>>> 'math' in sys.modules
False

What behaviour do you get?


Of course deleting the math module from the cache doesn't do anything to 
the math module in your namespace:

>>> math

>>> del math
>>> math
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
NameError: name 'math' is not defined

Of course deleting the module (or reloading it) doesn't have any effect 
on any objects you already have:


>>> import math
>>> func = math.sin
>>> del sys.modules['math']
>>> del math
>>> math.sin(1.2)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
NameError: name 'math' is not defined
>>> func(1.2)
0.93203908596722629




> Is there some other way of ensuring that any import goes to
> moduleName.py, instead of moduleName.pyc?

Delete moduleName.pyc.

Make sure the .pyc file doesn't exist in the first place.

Make sure the last modification date of the .py file is newer than the 
modification date of the .pyc file.



-- 
Steven


From charles at declareSub.com  Fri Aug 14 11:26:09 2009
From: charles at declareSub.com (Charles Yeomans)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 11:26:09 -0400
Subject: Programming by Contract
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4A7A15CD.9090306@stoneleaf.us> <4A81C6B8.7010605@stoneleaf.us>
	
	
Message-ID: 


On Aug 14, 2009, at 12:09 AM, Scott David Daniels wrote:

> Charles Yeomans wrote:
>> On Aug 11, 2009, at 3:30 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
>>> Ethan Furman wrote:
>>>> Greetings!
>>>> I have seen posts about the assert statement and PbC (or maybe it  
>>>> was DbC), and I just took a very brief look at pycontract (http://www.wayforward.net/pycontract/ 
>>>> ) and now I have at least one question:  Is this basically  
>>>> another way of thinking about unit testing, or is the idea of PbC  
>>>> more along the lines of *always* checking the input/output of  
>>>> functions to ensure they are correct?  (*Contstant vigilance!* as  
>>>> Prof Moody would say ;)
>>>> I know asserts can be turned off, so they obviously won't work  
>>>> for the latter case, and having seen the sample of pycontract it  
>>>> seems it only does its thing during debugging.
>>>> So is Design (Programming) by Contract a fancy way of saying  
>>>> "Document your inputs/outputs!" or is there more to it?
>>>> ~Ethan~
>>>
>>> Hmmm...
>>>
>>> Well, from the (apparently) complete lack of interest, I shall  
>>> take away the (better?) documentation ideas and unit testing  
>>> ideas, and not worry about the rest.  :)
>>>
>>>
>> Design by contract is complementary to unit testing (I notice that  
>> the author of PEP 316 appears confused about this).  DbC is,  
>> roughly speaking, about explicit allocation of responsibility.   
>> Consider this contrived example.
>> def foo(s):
>>    require(s is not None)
>>    //code
>>    ensure(hasattr(returnValue, '__iter__'))
>
> yo might want two flags, REQUIRE_OFF, and ENSURE_ON that control
> testing, and change the code above to:
>      require(REQUIRE_OFF or s is not None)
>      //code
>      ensure(ENSURE_OFF or hasattr(returnValue, '__iter__'))
>
> Python has no good way to turn off argument calculation by
> manipulating function definition (at least that I know of).
>

For this purpose, it had occurred to me to do something like the  
following.

def require(condition):
     if condition:
         return True
     else:
	raise PreconditionFailure


def foo(s):
    assert require(s is not None)


Then it occurred to me to actually read the assert documentation,  
where I learned that one can pass a second expression to assert. So  
instead one might write

assert precondition, "PreconditionFailure"

though I think I prefer the former.


Charles Yeomans 
-------------- next part --------------
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From david.mcwright at usbfmi.com  Fri Aug 14 11:39:25 2009
From: david.mcwright at usbfmi.com (dippim)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 08:39:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: implementing descriptors
References: <39aff5a5-97ec-41f7-ab26-6e4d842b9c5c@r33g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	 
	 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 14, 10:48?am, Dave Angel  wrote:
> dippim wrote:
> > On Aug 14, 2:34 am, Raymond Hettinger  wrote:
>
> >> [David]
>
> >>> I am new to Python and I have a question about descriptors. ?If I have
> >>> a class as written below, is there a way to use descriptors to be
> >>> certain that the datetime in start is always before the one in end?
>
> >>> class foo(object):
> >>> ? ?def __init__(self,a =one,b = None)
> >>> ? ? ? self.start =
> >>> ? ? ? self.end =
>
> >>> from datetime import datetime
> >>> c =atetime(2009,8,13,6,15,0)
> >>> d =atetime(2009,8,14,12,0,0)
> >>> afoo =oo(c,d)
>
> >>> For instance, if the following code were run, I would like to instance
> >>> of foo to switch the start and end times.
>
> >>> afoo.start =atetime(2010,8,13,6,15,0)
>
> >>> I was thinking of using the __set__ descriptor to catch the assignment
> >>> and reverse the values if necessary, but I can't figure out how to
> >>> determine which values is being set.
>
> >> You're on the right track, but it is easier to use property() than to
> >> write your own custom descriptor with __get__ and __set__.
>
> >> class foo(object):
> >> ? ? def __init__(self,a =one,b = None):
> >> ? ? ? ? self._start =
> >> ? ? ? ? self._end =
> >> ? ? def get_start(self):
> >> ? ? ? ? return self._start
> >> ? ? def set_start(self, value):
> >> ? ? ? ? if self._end is None or value < self._end:
> >> ? ? ? ? ? ? self._start =alue
> >> ? ? ? ? else:
> >> ? ? ? ? ? ? self._end =alue
> >> ? ? start =roperty(get_start, set_start)
> >> ? ? def get_end(self):
> >> ? ? ? ? return self._end
> >> ? ? def set_end(self, value):
> >> ? ? ? ? if self._start is None or value > self._start:
> >> ? ? ? ? ? ? self._end =alue
> >> ? ? ? ? else:
> >> ? ? ? ? ? ? self._start =alue
> >> ? ? end =roperty(get_end, set_end)
>
> >> Raymond
>
> > Raymond,
> > ? ?This functionality is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks! ?I'll
> > be using this to solve my problem.
>
> > ? ?Now that I'm on the right track, I'm still a bit confused about how
> > __get__ and __set__ are useful. ?Admittedly, I don't need to
> > understand them to solve this problem, but perhaps they may be useful
> > in the future. ?If I wanted to solve this problem using __get__ and
> > __set__ could it be done?
>
> > Thanks Again!
>
> DANGER- WILL ROBINSON!
>
> Don't use this code as-is. ?There is a nasty surprise waiting for the
> caller when he sets start and end, and discovers that one of them gets
> thrown out, and an old value still remains.
>
> obj= foo(3, 5)
> obj.start = 8
> obj.end = 12
> print obj.start, obj.end
>
> will print out ?3, 12. ? ?Not what the caller expected.

You're right about this and I appreciate the warning, but I think what
Raymond was going for was directional accuracy without a great deal of
his time wasted on details.  The explanation served the purpose of
moving me forward using property() and I'm thankful for it.

>
> Four fixes, in order of preference:
> 0) Trust your user to read and obey your docstrings. ?This was what JM
> was implying, by changing the names of the formal parameters.

Considering I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer, I don't wish to
start a philosophical discussion about the relative aptitude and
capabilities of the people who might use a class I build.  However, I
will say that as this particular requirement is imposed on this class
by the writer, shouldn't it be the writer's responsibility to enforce
it, especially, when the cost of enforcement is so low?

> 1) ?make a new method that sets both values, making these two properties
> readonly. ?That new method would make sure the two parameters are
> self-consistent. ?Making the actual values readonly can be done with a
> descriptor as well, or even a decorator.

> 2) Raise an exception in the getter methods if they're out of order
> 3) do the min/max logic on the getter methods, but I don't like that one
> at all.
>
> DaveA



From david.mcwright at usbfmi.com  Fri Aug 14 11:41:28 2009
From: david.mcwright at usbfmi.com (dippim)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 08:41:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: implementing descriptors
References: <39aff5a5-97ec-41f7-ab26-6e4d842b9c5c@r33g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	 
	 
	
Message-ID: <85502415-f861-43ab-8827-4184952d8bea@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 14, 10:48?am, Dave Angel  wrote:
> dippim wrote:
> > On Aug 14, 2:34 am, Raymond Hettinger  wrote:
>
> >> [David]
>
> >>> I am new to Python and I have a question about descriptors. ?If I have
> >>> a class as written below, is there a way to use descriptors to be
> >>> certain that the datetime in start is always before the one in end?
>
> >>> class foo(object):
> >>> ? ?def __init__(self,a =one,b = None)
> >>> ? ? ? self.start =
> >>> ? ? ? self.end =
>
> >>> from datetime import datetime
> >>> c =atetime(2009,8,13,6,15,0)
> >>> d =atetime(2009,8,14,12,0,0)
> >>> afoo =oo(c,d)
>
> >>> For instance, if the following code were run, I would like to instance
> >>> of foo to switch the start and end times.
>
> >>> afoo.start =atetime(2010,8,13,6,15,0)
>
> >>> I was thinking of using the __set__ descriptor to catch the assignment
> >>> and reverse the values if necessary, but I can't figure out how to
> >>> determine which values is being set.
>
> >> You're on the right track, but it is easier to use property() than to
> >> write your own custom descriptor with __get__ and __set__.
>
> >> class foo(object):
> >> ? ? def __init__(self,a =one,b = None):
> >> ? ? ? ? self._start =
> >> ? ? ? ? self._end =
> >> ? ? def get_start(self):
> >> ? ? ? ? return self._start
> >> ? ? def set_start(self, value):
> >> ? ? ? ? if self._end is None or value < self._end:
> >> ? ? ? ? ? ? self._start =alue
> >> ? ? ? ? else:
> >> ? ? ? ? ? ? self._end =alue
> >> ? ? start =roperty(get_start, set_start)
> >> ? ? def get_end(self):
> >> ? ? ? ? return self._end
> >> ? ? def set_end(self, value):
> >> ? ? ? ? if self._start is None or value > self._start:
> >> ? ? ? ? ? ? self._end =alue
> >> ? ? ? ? else:
> >> ? ? ? ? ? ? self._start =alue
> >> ? ? end =roperty(get_end, set_end)
>
> >> Raymond
>
> > Raymond,
> > ? ?This functionality is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks! ?I'll
> > be using this to solve my problem.
>
> > ? ?Now that I'm on the right track, I'm still a bit confused about how
> > __get__ and __set__ are useful. ?Admittedly, I don't need to
> > understand them to solve this problem, but perhaps they may be useful
> > in the future. ?If I wanted to solve this problem using __get__ and
> > __set__ could it be done?
>
> > Thanks Again!
>
> DANGER- WILL ROBINSON!
>
> Don't use this code as-is. ?There is a nasty surprise waiting for the
> caller when he sets start and end, and discovers that one of them gets
> thrown out, and an old value still remains.
>
> obj= foo(3, 5)
> obj.start = 8
> obj.end = 12
> print obj.start, obj.end
>
> will print out ?3, 12. ? ?Not what the caller expected.

You're right about this and I appreciate the warning, but I think what
Raymond was going for was directional accuracy without a great deal of
his time wasted on details.  The explanation served the purpose of
moving me forward using property() and I'm thankful for it.

>
> Four fixes, in order of preference:
> 0) Trust your user to read and obey your docstrings. ?This was what JM
> was implying, by changing the names of the formal parameters.

Considering I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer, I don't wish to
start a philosophical discussion about the relative aptitude and
capabilities of the people who might use a class I build.  However, I
will say that as this particular requirement is imposed on this class
by the writer, shouldn't it be the writer's responsibility to enforce
it, especially, when the cost of enforcement is so low?

> 1) ?make a new method that sets both values, making these two properties
> readonly. ?That new method would make sure the two parameters are
> self-consistent. ?Making the actual values readonly can be done with a
> descriptor as well, or even a decorator.

> 2) Raise an exception in the getter methods if they're out of order
> 3) do the min/max logic on the getter methods, but I don't like that one
> at all.
>
> DaveA



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Aug 14 11:49:52 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 16:49:52 +0100
Subject: callable virtual method
In-Reply-To: <4A85798B.6020501@sequans.com>
References: <4A85798B.6020501@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <4A8587A0.6040008@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> Hi fellows,
> 
> Does anyone know a way to write virtual methods (in one virtual class) 
> that will raise an exception only if called without being overridden ?
> Currently in the virtual method I'm checking that the class of the 
> instance calling the method has defined that method as well.
> 
> Example:
> 
> class Stream(object):
>    """Interface of all stream objects"""
>    def resetStats(self):
>        """Reset the stream statistics. All values a zeroed except the 
> date."""
>        _log.info('Reset statistics of %s' % self)
>        if self.__class__.resetStats == Stream.resetStats:
>            raise NotImplementedError()
> 
> It works but it's tedious, I have to add these 2 lines to every virtual 
> method, changing the content of the 2 lines.
> 
> Maybe there is a nice/builtin way to do so (python 2.4)
> 
Why are you checking which class it's in? The method in the base class
will be called only if it hasn't been overridden in the subclass.


From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Aug 14 11:50:47 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 17:50:47 +0200
Subject: callable virtual method
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7elfenF2gmdggU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Jean-Michel Pichavant schrieb:
> Hi fellows,
> 
> Does anyone know a way to write virtual methods (in one virtual class) 
> that will raise an exception only if called without being overridden ?
> Currently in the virtual method I'm checking that the class of the 
> instance calling the method has defined that method as well.
> 
> Example:
> 
> class Stream(object):
>    """Interface of all stream objects"""
>    def resetStats(self):
>        """Reset the stream statistics. All values a zeroed except the 
> date."""
>        _log.info('Reset statistics of %s' % self)
>        if self.__class__.resetStats == Stream.resetStats:
>            raise NotImplementedError()
> 
> It works but it's tedious, I have to add these 2 lines to every virtual 
> method, changing the content of the 2 lines.
> 
> Maybe there is a nice/builtin way to do so (python 2.4)

Python has no concept of "virtual" methods. A simple


class Stream(object):


    def resetStats(self):
        raise NotImplemented


is all you need. Once a subclass overrides resetStats, that 
implementatino is used.

Additionally, there are modules such as zope.interface out there, that 
let you define more formally what an interface is, and declare who's 
implementing it. I don't used this myself though, so I can't really 
comment to which extend it e.g. warns you if you subclass *without* 
implementing.

Diez


From alan.isaac at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 11:54:54 2009
From: alan.isaac at gmail.com (Alan G Isaac)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:54:54 GMT
Subject: retrieve item from nested list given index tuple
Message-ID: 

`lst` is a nested list

`tpl` is the indexes for an item in the list

What is the nice way to retrieve the item?
(Speedy access is nice.)

I don't want to use NumPy, but I'd like somehow
to avoid an explicit loop.  I did consider using
eval.  E.g., eval('lst' + '[%d]'*len(tpl)%tpl).
It works but seems rather ugly.  I kind of like
reduce(list.__getitem__, tpl, lst) but the
reliance on reduce remains controversial enough
to see i removed from the Python 3 built-ins ...

Thanks,
Alan Isaac


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Aug 14 11:56:27 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 14 Aug 2009 15:56:27 GMT
Subject: callable virtual method
References: 
Message-ID: <02957986$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 16:49:47 +0200, Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:

> Hi fellows,
> 
> Does anyone know a way to write virtual methods (in one virtual class)
> that will raise an exception only if called without being overridden ?
> Currently in the virtual method I'm checking that the class of the
> instance calling the method has defined that method as well.

I'm not entirely sure of the terminology -- is this the same as an 
abstract base class? Googling has not enlightened me. Given your example, 
it seems to be.


> Example:
> 
> class Stream(object):
>     """Interface of all stream objects"""
>     def resetStats(self):
>         """Reset the stream statistics. All values a zeroed except the
> date."""
>         _log.info('Reset statistics of %s' % self)
>         if self.__class__.resetStats == Stream.resetStats:
>             raise NotImplementedError()

The usual idiom I've seen for abstract methods is to simplify the check, 
and to put it *before* any work is done:

class Stream(object):
    """Interface of all stream objects"""
    def resetStats(self):
        if self.__class__ is Stream:
            raise NotImplementedError()
        _log.info('Reset statistics of %s' % self)

Even simpler is to just put the check in __init__, so to prevent the 
caller from creating an instance of the class:

class AbstractStream(object):
    def __init__(self):
        if self.__class__ is Stream:
            raise NotImplementedError('abstract class')
    def resetStats(self):
        # This does not need to be over-ridden.
        _log.info('Reset statistics of %s' % self)
    def whatever(self):
        # This *must* be over-ridden, and *cannot* be called
        raise NotImplementedError('abstract method')


If you have a lot of methods, you can probably reduce the boilerplate 
with decorators:


# Untested
from functools import wraps
def abstract(func):
    # Abstract methods don't have to be over-ridden, so long as they
    # are called from a subclass of the abstract class.
    @functools.wraps(func)
    def inner(self, *args, **kwargs):
        if self.__class__ is Stream:
            raise NotImplementedError()
        return func(self, *args, **kwargs)
    return inner

def virtual(func):
    # Virtual methods must be over-ridden, and must not be called by
    # inheritance.
    @functools.wraps(func)
    def inner(self, *args, **kwargs):
        raise NotImplementedError()
    return inner

class Stream(object):
    @abstract
    def __init__(self):
        pass
    def resetStats(self):
        _log.info('Reset statistics of %s' % self)
    @virtual
    def whatever(self):
        pass



-- 
Steven


From maymunbeyin at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 12:03:27 2009
From: maymunbeyin at gmail.com (kk)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:03:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Why does my ftp script quit after couple of hours?
Message-ID: <6ec34299-107d-48c7-a5bf-6a10d5911411@j9g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>

Hi
This way the first time I did something with ftp stuff. I think that
generally it works but it stops working(quits or disappears) after
couple of hours of running.

This was a personal test-trial script for my own needs which was to
get my dynamic ip and broadcast to a client(I have a client script on
another computer). I sure could use something like DynDns for the same
purpose with easier management but I just wanted to give it a try to
see if i could even make it work .

Basically this script parses my ip from DynDns ip check page and
uploads it to the given ftp site. It works fine initially, it does
upload, it updates the Ip every hour but the problem is that after
couple of hours the Python console window disappears, I assume it
crashes.  I know it does upload at least couple times(works for couple
hours). it might be something to do with ftp connection. I will
investigate that but I just wanted to see if I have any logic or some
kind of contextual problem in the script.


Here is the link to Pastie page
http://pastie.org/584152


Thanks


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Aug 14 12:11:52 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 14 Aug 2009 16:11:52 GMT
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in string
	literals]
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 07:07:31 -0700, Aahz wrote:

> "I saw `cout' being shifted "Hello world" times to the left and stopped
> right there."  --Steve Gonedes

Assuming that's something real, and not invented for humour, I presume 
that's describing something possible in C++. Am I correct? What the hell 
would it actually do???


-- 
Steven


From invalid at invalid  Fri Aug 14 12:17:36 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 11:17:36 -0500
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in
	string literals]
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-14, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 07:07:31 -0700, Aahz wrote:
>
>> "I saw `cout' being shifted "Hello world" times to the left and stopped
>> right there."  --Steve Gonedes
>
> Assuming that's something real, and not invented for humour, I presume 
> that's describing something possible in C++. Am I correct?

Yes.  In C++, the "<<" operator is overloaded.  Judging by the
context in which I've seen it used, it does something like
write strings to a stream.

> What the hell
> would it actually do???

IIRC in C++, 

   cout << "Hello world";

is equivalent to this in C:

   printf("Hellow world");

or this in Python:

   print "hellow world"

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Bo Derek ruined
                                  at               my life!
                               visi.com            


From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Aug 14 12:17:57 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:17:57 +0200
Subject: Why does my ftp script quit after couple of hours?
In-Reply-To: <6ec34299-107d-48c7-a5bf-6a10d5911411@j9g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
References: <6ec34299-107d-48c7-a5bf-6a10d5911411@j9g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7elh1lF2h1rl0U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

kk schrieb:
> Hi
> This way the first time I did something with ftp stuff. I think that
> generally it works but it stops working(quits or disappears) after
> couple of hours of running.
> 
> This was a personal test-trial script for my own needs which was to
> get my dynamic ip and broadcast to a client(I have a client script on
> another computer). I sure could use something like DynDns for the same
> purpose with easier management but I just wanted to give it a try to
> see if i could even make it work .
> 
> Basically this script parses my ip from DynDns ip check page and
> uploads it to the given ftp site. It works fine initially, it does
> upload, it updates the Ip every hour but the problem is that after
> couple of hours the Python console window disappears, I assume it
> crashes.  I know it does upload at least couple times(works for couple
> hours). it might be something to do with ftp connection. I will
> investigate that but I just wanted to see if I have any logic or some
> kind of contextual problem in the script.
> 
> 
> Here is the link to Pastie page
> http://pastie.org/584152


The code isn't very robust if anything happens retrieving the IP-website 
- if for some reason the connection is broken, it won't catch any 
ensuing IO-exception.

Also your way of extracing the IP is rather awkward, a simple re (often 
not the right tool, but here certainl yes) would help:

 >>> m = re.search(r"(([0-9]+\.){3}[0-9]+)", body)
 >>> m.group(1)
'85.177.92.101'
 >>>


Diez


From maymunbeyin at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 12:25:50 2009
From: maymunbeyin at gmail.com (kk)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:25:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Why does my ftp script quit after couple of hours?
References: <6ec34299-107d-48c7-a5bf-6a10d5911411@j9g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	<7elh1lF2h1rl0U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <337951bf-4d0d-4dde-95de-8e6d7d68a7f5@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

Hi Diez

Thanks for your insight. The reason I chose the awkward method to
parse the ip digits is that I was not familiar with the regex module
and the Dyndns Ip page is pretty simple page. I guess it is time to
learn more about the Re module.

As far as robustness, I agree with your assestment. I guess my main
confusion with my result is that the console window just disappears. I
wonder if I can make the window stay even if it crashesor if there are
connection issues? I will createa  seperate log file to see if I can
catch any issues in a log file.



From bieffe62 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 12:27:30 2009
From: bieffe62 at gmail.com (Francesco Bochicchio)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:27:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Why does my ftp script quit after couple of hours?
References: <6ec34299-107d-48c7-a5bf-6a10d5911411@j9g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <84991768-4ab5-45fa-8e99-c8910280c81f@d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On 14 Ago, 18:03, kk  wrote:
> Hi
> This way the first time I did something with ftp stuff. I think that
> generally it works but it stops working(quits or disappears) after
> couple of hours of running.
>
> This was a personal test-trial script for my own needs which was to
> get my dynamic ip and broadcast to a client(I have a client script on
> another computer). I sure could use something like DynDns for the same
> purpose with easier management but I just wanted to give it a try to
> see if i could even make it work .
>
> Basically this script parses my ip from DynDns ip check page and
> uploads it to the given ftp site. It works fine initially, it does
> upload, it updates the Ip every hour but the problem is that after
> couple of hours the Python console window disappears, I assume it
> crashes. ?I know it does upload at least couple times(works for couple
> hours). it might be something to do with ftp connection. I will
> investigate that but I just wanted to see if I have any logic or some
> kind of contextual problem in the script.
>
> Here is the link to Pastie pagehttp://pastie.org/584152
>
> Thanks

Try catching the exception inside the main loop, to prevent your
program to exit in case of failure:

if __name__=='__main__':
  while True:
    try:
        writeExtFile(FILE_PATH,FILE_NAME)
        uploadFile
(FTP_NAME,FTP_USER_NAME,FTP_PASSWD,FTP_FOLDER,FILE_NAME)
        time.sleep(TIME_DELAY)
    except:
      err, det, tb = sys.exc_info()
      print "ERROR =>", err, det # gives you a description of the
occurred failure
      traceback.print_tb(tb) # this might be needed only for debug


Ciao
----
FB


From wasala at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 12:28:34 2009
From: wasala at gmail.com (Asanka Wasala)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:28:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python Permutations Problem
Message-ID: 

Hi
I am developing a spell checker for my language, and I came across
solving an interesing problem. It would be great if you can suggest
me  an optimized solution for the problem described below:

I have certain group of letters like these:

Group #1: c,r,b
Group #2: a,z,k
Group #3: h,t
.
.

Letters within the same group can be substituted/replaced with the
rest of the letters in that group.

(ie. Group #1 means letter 'c' can be replaced with either 'r' or 'b',
and letter r can be replaced with either c or b, and letter b can be
replaced with either r or c)

A group can have upto 3 letters, and letters do not overlap between
groups. There can be upto 25 such groups.
Given a word containing above letters, (e.g. 'cat'.) I want to
generate all possible words by subsituting letters in the groups.

eg. expected output:

cat	rat	bat
czt	rzt 	bzt
ckt	rkt	bkt
cah	rah	bah
czh	rzh	bzh
ckh	rkh	bkh

My code is given below. But for complex words like 'cccccccccczzk' it
thows the 'maximum recursion depth exceeded' error. Therefore, can you
suggest me an optimized solution to achive the above task? Thanks in
advance.
--------------------------
CODE-------------------------------------------
#-*- coding: UTF-8 -*-
import re
def getPermutations(word):
    def getSimilarLetters(letter):
        pattern=u"|c,r,b|a,z,k|h,t|"
        list=[]
        ptrn=re.compile("(?P\|(.?,)*?"+letter+"(,.)*?\|)")
        k=ptrn.search(pattern)
        if k:
            letterlist=k.group("grp")[1:-1]
            list=letterlist.split(",")
            list.remove(letter)
            return list
        else:
            return letter

    list=[]

    def perm(word):
        posi=0
        wrd=word
        for w in word:
            posi=posi+1
            lst=getSimilarLetters(w)
            if len(lst)>0:
                for l in lst:
                    newwrd=wrd[:posi-1]+l+wrd[posi:]
                    if not (newwrd in list):
                        list.append(newwrd)
                        perm(newwrd)

    try:
        perm(word)
    except RuntimeError:
        list=[]
        list.append("error")
    return list

list=getPermutations(u"cat")

for i in list:
    print i.encode('utf-8')
--------------------------------------------END of
CODE-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


From prateekkakirwar at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 12:31:43 2009
From: prateekkakirwar at gmail.com (Prateek)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:31:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Natural Language Processing in Python
Message-ID: 

Hi,

Can somebody please provide me link to a good online resource or e-
book for doing natural language processing programming in Python.

Thanks,
Prateek


From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Aug 14 12:38:12 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:38:12 +0200
Subject: Why does my ftp script quit after couple of hours?
In-Reply-To: <337951bf-4d0d-4dde-95de-8e6d7d68a7f5@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
References: <6ec34299-107d-48c7-a5bf-6a10d5911411@j9g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	<7elh1lF2h1rl0U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<337951bf-4d0d-4dde-95de-8e6d7d68a7f5@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7eli7kF2gdbanU2@mid.uni-berlin.de>

kk schrieb:
> Hi Diez
> 
> Thanks for your insight. The reason I chose the awkward method to
> parse the ip digits is that I was not familiar with the regex module
> and the Dyndns Ip page is pretty simple page. I guess it is time to
> learn more about the Re module.
> 
> As far as robustness, I agree with your assestment. I guess my main
> confusion with my result is that the console window just disappears. I
> wonder if I can make the window stay even if it crashesor if there are
> connection issues? I will createa  seperate log file to see if I can
> catch any issues in a log file.

I'm not a Windows-user, but even there it should be possible to *first* 
open the console, and then start the script in it.

That will keep it open & you can see the stacktrace.
Diez


From tim.arnold at sas.com  Fri Aug 14 12:39:10 2009
From: tim.arnold at sas.com (Tim Arnold)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 12:39:10 -0400
Subject: coding for multiple versions of python
References: 
Message-ID: 

"Tim Arnold"  wrote in message 
news:h61gld$it2$1 at foggy.unx.sas.com...
> Hi,
> I've got a python based system that has to run on hp unix and red hat 
> linux. The Python version on the HP is 2.4 and the version on the Linux 
> box is 2.6. There's nothing I can do about that.
>
> I think that means I must have two different libraries since the pyc files 
> are not cross-version compatible. No problem for the libs like PIL or 
> lxml. But for the part of the system I actually code every day, I'd rather 
> not do dual maintenance, having two copies of my code for each 
> platform/version.
>
> I'm guessing I need to configure cvs to copy files to both locations 
> whenever I commit. Does that sound right? Is there a better way I'm not 
> thinking of?
>
> thanks,
> --Tim
>
Thanks everyone. I assumed wrongly that I would run into problems if a pyc 
file generated for 2.4 was available when 2.6 was running the code. I see 
now that if the pyc is incompatible, python falls back to the py file. Makes 
sense, I was trying to solve a problem I didn't actually have.

On the other hand, Martin's solution looks great for this situation. I'll 
keep my single set of python files and link to them from the different 
platform/python version dirs, so I can still get the optimization of the pyc 
files.

I really love this group. thanks again,
--Tim Arnold




From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Aug 14 12:40:04 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 17:40:04 +0100
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in
	string literals]
In-Reply-To: 
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>		<02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <4A859364.3060203@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2009-08-14, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
>> On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 07:07:31 -0700, Aahz wrote:
>>
>>> "I saw `cout' being shifted "Hello world" times to the left and stopped
>>> right there."  --Steve Gonedes
>> Assuming that's something real, and not invented for humour, I presume 
>> that's describing something possible in C++. Am I correct?
> 
> Yes.  In C++, the "<<" operator is overloaded.  Judging by the
> context in which I've seen it used, it does something like
> write strings to a stream.
> 
>> What the hell
>> would it actually do???
> 
> IIRC in C++, 
> 
>    cout << "Hello world";
> 
It also returns cout, so you can chain them:

     cout << "Hello, " << name << '\n';

> is equivalent to this in C:
> 
>    printf("Hellow world");
> 
> or this in Python:
> 
>    print "hellow world"
> 



From maymunbeyin at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 12:40:08 2009
From: maymunbeyin at gmail.com (kk)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:40:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Why does my ftp script quit after couple of hours?
References: <6ec34299-107d-48c7-a5bf-6a10d5911411@j9g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	<7elh1lF2h1rl0U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<337951bf-4d0d-4dde-95de-8e6d7d68a7f5@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<7eli7kF2gdbanU2@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <0b60c6a7-d950-4c3c-890d-908bb25b239b@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

Awesome stuff, thank you so much for all the help. The
Pcomp.lang.python is the most helpful list I have encountered so
far :)



From a0046088 at airmail.net  Fri Aug 14 12:41:36 2009
From: a0046088 at airmail.net (wwwayne)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 10:41:36 -0600
Subject: Natural Language Processing in Python
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:31:43 -0700 (PDT), Prateek
 wrote:

>Hi,
>
>Can somebody please provide me link to a good online resource or e-
>book for doing natural language processing programming in Python.
>
>Thanks,
>Prateek

http://www.nltk.org/book



From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 12:42:15 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:42:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in 
	string literals]
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 14, 12:17?pm, Grant Edwards  wrote:

> On 2009-08-14, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:

> > On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 07:07:31 -0700, Aahz wrote:

> >> "I saw `cout' being shifted "Hello world" times to the left and stopped
> >> right there." ?--Steve Gonedes
>
> > Assuming that's something real, and not invented for humour, I presume
> > that's describing something possible in C++. Am I correct?
>
> Yes. ?In C++, the "<<" operator is overloaded. ?Judging by the
> context in which I've seen it used, it does something like
> write strings to a stream.

There's a persistent rumor that it is *this* very "abuse" of
overloading that caused Java to avoid operator overloading all
together.

But then then Java went and used "+" as the string concatenation
operator. Go figure!

|>ouglas

P.S. Overloading "left shift" to mean "output" does indeed seem a bit
sketchy, but in 15 years of C++ programming, I've never seen it cause
any confusion or bugs.



From skiaec04 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 12:49:21 2009
From: skiaec04 at gmail.com (Alejandro E. Ciniglio)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 12:49:21 -0400
Subject: Natural Language Processing in Python
References: 
Message-ID: 

nltk is a good start, we used it in my Computational Linguistics course 
in school.

www.nltk.org

--Alejandro



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Aug 14 12:49:26 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:49:26 +0200
Subject: callable virtual method
In-Reply-To: <4A8587A0.6040008@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <4A85798B.6020501@sequans.com>
	<4A8587A0.6040008@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <4A859596.50808@sequans.com>

MRAB wrote:
> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>> Hi fellows,
>>
>> Does anyone know a way to write virtual methods (in one virtual 
>> class) that will raise an exception only if called without being 
>> overridden ?
>> Currently in the virtual method I'm checking that the class of the 
>> instance calling the method has defined that method as well.
>>
>> Example:
>>
>> class Stream(object):
>>    """Interface of all stream objects"""
>>    def resetStats(self):
>>        """Reset the stream statistics. All values a zeroed except the 
>> date."""
>>        _log.info('Reset statistics of %s' % self)
>>        if self.__class__.resetStats == Stream.resetStats:
>>            raise NotImplementedError()
>>
>> It works but it's tedious, I have to add these 2 lines to every 
>> virtual method, changing the content of the 2 lines.
>>
>> Maybe there is a nice/builtin way to do so (python 2.4)
>>
> Why are you checking which class it's in? The method in the base class
> will be called only if it hasn't been overridden in the subclass.

Sorry guys (means guys *and* gals :op ), I realized I've not been able 
to describe precisely what I want to do.
I'd like the base class to be virtual (aka abstract). However it may be 
abstract but it does not mean it cannot do some usefull stuff.


Here is the schema of my abstract methods :

class Interface(object):
    def method(self):
        # ---------------------
        # some common stuff executed here
        # ---------------------
        print 'hello world'
        # ---------------------
        # here shall stand child specific stuff (empty in the interface 
method)
        # ---------------------
        if self.__class__.method == Interface.method:
            raise NotImplementedError('You should have read the f****** 
manual ! You must override this method.')

class GoodChild(Interface):
    def method(self):
       Interface.method(self) # I want to process the cool stuff done my 
the base Interface
       # ------------------------
       # Specific GoodChild stuff here
       # ------------------------
       print 'I am a good'
       return 'perfect'

class BadChild(Interface):
    pass #I'm too lazy


good = GoodChild()
bad = BadChild()

good.method()
...hello world
...I am a good

bad.method()
...NotImplementedError: You should have read the f****** manual ! You 
must override this method.


The reason I'd like to do so: I'll be providing the Interface, but child 
classes will be overridden by others. Having a reliable error RTFM 
feedback is a time saver, for me and the users.
I hope I clarified my issue.

JM


From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Aug 14 12:56:53 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:56:53 +0200
Subject: callable virtual method
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4A85798B.6020501@sequans.com>	<4A8587A0.6040008@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	
Message-ID: <7eljaoF2fnkqgU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Jean-Michel Pichavant schrieb:
> MRAB wrote:
>> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>>> Hi fellows,
>>>
>>> Does anyone know a way to write virtual methods (in one virtual 
>>> class) that will raise an exception only if called without being 
>>> overridden ?
>>> Currently in the virtual method I'm checking that the class of the 
>>> instance calling the method has defined that method as well.
>>>
>>> Example:
>>>
>>> class Stream(object):
>>>    """Interface of all stream objects"""
>>>    def resetStats(self):
>>>        """Reset the stream statistics. All values a zeroed except the 
>>> date."""
>>>        _log.info('Reset statistics of %s' % self)
>>>        if self.__class__.resetStats == Stream.resetStats:
>>>            raise NotImplementedError()
>>>
>>> It works but it's tedious, I have to add these 2 lines to every 
>>> virtual method, changing the content of the 2 lines.
>>>
>>> Maybe there is a nice/builtin way to do so (python 2.4)
>>>
>> Why are you checking which class it's in? The method in the base class
>> will be called only if it hasn't been overridden in the subclass.
> 
> Sorry guys (means guys *and* gals :op ), I realized I've not been able 
> to describe precisely what I want to do.
> I'd like the base class to be virtual (aka abstract). However it may be 
> abstract but it does not mean it cannot do some usefull stuff.
> 
> 
> Here is the schema of my abstract methods :
> 
> class Interface(object):
>    def method(self):
>        # ---------------------
>        # some common stuff executed here
>        # ---------------------
>        print 'hello world'
>        # ---------------------
>        # here shall stand child specific stuff (empty in the interface 
> method)
>        # ---------------------
>        if self.__class__.method == Interface.method:
>            raise NotImplementedError('You should have read the f****** 
> manual ! You must override this method.')
> 
> class GoodChild(Interface):
>    def method(self):
>       Interface.method(self) # I want to process the cool stuff done my 
> the base Interface
>       # ------------------------
>       # Specific GoodChild stuff here
>       # ------------------------
>       print 'I am a good'
>       return 'perfect'
> 
> class BadChild(Interface):
>    pass #I'm too lazy
> 
> 
> good = GoodChild()
> bad = BadChild()
> 
> good.method()
> ...hello world
> ...I am a good
> 
> bad.method()
> ...NotImplementedError: You should have read the f****** manual ! You 
> must override this method.
> 
> 
> The reason I'd like to do so: I'll be providing the Interface, but child 
> classes will be overridden by others. Having a reliable error RTFM 
> feedback is a time saver, for me and the users.
> I hope I clarified my issue.

First of all, I doubt the above code really yields that output. You are 
missing a super-call there in GoodChild

And the whole problem goes magically away if you start using OO a bit:


class Base(object):


   def method(self):
       self._do_some_work_for_method()
       print "some more work"

   def _do_some_work_for_method(self):
       raise NotImplemented


So your subclasses must implement something else instead of method - and 
voila, without any hassle things work as expected.

Diez


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Aug 14 12:58:33 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 17:58:33 +0100
Subject: Python Permutations Problem
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A8597B9.2000002@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Asanka Wasala wrote:
> Hi
> I am developing a spell checker for my language, and I came across
> solving an interesing problem. It would be great if you can suggest
> me  an optimized solution for the problem described below:
> 
> I have certain group of letters like these:
> 
> Group #1: c,r,b
> Group #2: a,z,k
> Group #3: h,t
> .
> .
> 
> Letters within the same group can be substituted/replaced with the
> rest of the letters in that group.
> 
> (ie. Group #1 means letter 'c' can be replaced with either 'r' or 'b',
> and letter r can be replaced with either c or b, and letter b can be
> replaced with either r or c)
> 
> A group can have upto 3 letters, and letters do not overlap between
> groups. There can be upto 25 such groups.
> Given a word containing above letters, (e.g. 'cat'.) I want to
> generate all possible words by subsituting letters in the groups.
> 
> eg. expected output:
> 
> cat	rat	bat
> czt	rzt 	bzt
> ckt	rkt	bkt
> cah	rah	bah
> czh	rzh	bzh
> ckh	rkh	bkh
> 
> My code is given below. But for complex words like 'cccccccccczzk' it
> thows the 'maximum recursion depth exceeded' error. Therefore, can you
> suggest me an optimized solution to achive the above task? Thanks in
> advance.
> --------------------------
[snip]
This uses a generator in order:

def get_permutations(word, group_dict):
     if word:
         for first in group_dict[word[0]]:
             for rest in get_permutations(word[1 : ], group_dict):
                 yield first + rest
     else:
         yield ""

def count_permutations(word, group_dict):
     if word:
         total = 1
         for letter in word:
             total *= len(group_dict[letter])
         return total
     else:
         return 0

group_def = u"crb azk ht"

group_dict = {}
for group in group_def.split():
     for letter in group:
         group_dict[letter] = group

word = u"cat"

print "There are %d permutations." % count_permutations(word, group_dict)
print

for perm in get_permutations(word, group_dict):
     print perm


From lanyjie at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 14 13:00:49 2009
From: lanyjie at yahoo.com (Yingjie Lan)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 10:00:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Python-Dev] expy: an expressway to extend Python
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <637900.988.qm@web54204.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

--- On Sat, 8/8/09, Stefan Behnel  wrote:

> From: Stefan Behnel 
> Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] expy: an expressway to extend Python
> To: python-dev at python.org
> Date: Saturday, August 8, 2009, 4:55 PM
> > More details at http://expy.sourceforge.net/
> 
> I'm clearly biased, but my main concern here is that expy
> requires C code
> to be written inside of strings. There isn't any good
> editor support for
> that, so I doubt that expy is good for anything but very
> thin wrappers (as
> in the examples you presented).

Thanks a lot for the input -- I sort of recaptured the advantages of expy and listed four points in the new introduction at http://expy.sf.net/ homepage. 

Lacking of editor highlight support is quite a problem, but it is possible to create a support. For example, you can use this to indicate the start of embedded code highlight: 

return """

and then the end mark is of course the enclosing """

> 
> That said, you might want to look at the argument unpacking
> code generated
> by Cython. It's highly optimised through specialisation and
> has been
> benchmarked quite a bit faster than the generic Python
> C-API functions for
> tuple/keyword extracting. Since argument conversion seems
> to be more or
> less all that expy really does, maybe you want to reuse
> that code.
> 
> Stefan

Oh sure, that's nice if that part can be adopted by expy-cxpy. Any help out on this would be very welcomed.


Yingjie


      


From vippstar at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 13:01:57 2009
From: vippstar at gmail.com (vippstar)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 10:01:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: A Exhibition Of Tech Geekers Incompetence: Emacs whitespace-mode
References: <61ef4451-d6b6-493b-b4a0-1822a901ca8d@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 14, 4:36?am, Xah Lee  wrote:
> ? A Exhibition Of Tech Geekers Incompetence: Emacs whitespace-mode
> ?http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/emacs_whitespace-mode_problem...

Instead of writing a completely useless article you could had asked
for help in an emacs newsgroup, or wait until someone else does that
for you too (creating and publishing such configuration you desire).
Your article, except for the brief description of that mode, is
completely useless. Why would you fill your website with junk? Perhaps
because you like to write but you're too lazy to write something of
value.


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Aug 14 13:09:42 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 14 Aug 2009 17:09:42 GMT
Subject: retrieve item from nested list given index tuple
References: 
Message-ID: <02958ab2$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:54:54 +0000, Alan G Isaac wrote:

> `lst` is a nested list
> 
> `tpl` is the indexes for an item in the list

> What is the nice way to retrieve the item? (Speedy access is nice.)

Assuming you want to do this frequently, write a helper function, then 
use it:

# Untested
def extract(nested, indexes):
    for index in indexes:
        nested = nested[index]
    return nested


> I don't want to use NumPy, but I'd like somehow to avoid an explicit
> loop.  I did consider using eval.  E.g., eval('lst' +
> '[%d]'*len(tpl)%tpl). It works but seems rather ugly.

And slow.


> I kind of like
> reduce(list.__getitem__, tpl, lst) but the reliance on reduce remains
> controversial enough to see i removed from the Python 3 built-ins ...

It's just moved into functools.


>>> lst = ['a', 'b', ['aa', ['aaa', 'bbb', 'ccc'], 'cc']]
>>> from functools import reduce
>>> lst = ['a', 'b', ['aa', ['aaa', 'bbb', 'ccc'], 'cc']]
>>> reduce(list.__getitem__, (2, 1, 0), lst)
'aaa'


However, it doesn't work too well as soon as you mix sequence types:

>>> reduce(list.__getitem__, (2, 1, 0, 0), lst)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
TypeError: descriptor '__getitem__' requires a 'list' object but received 
a 'str'

Try this instead:

>>> from operator import getitem
>>> reduce(getitem, (2, 1, 0), lst)
'aaa'
>>> reduce(getitem, (2, 1, 0, 0), lst)
'a'

operator.getitem is less ugly too.



-- 
Steven


From chris at simplistix.co.uk  Fri Aug 14 13:13:05 2009
From: chris at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:13:05 +0100
Subject: csv.DictWriter.write_header()
In-Reply-To: 
References: 			<68b9136d-fa0b-42dc-addf-02d338da34cd@z4g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4A859B21.7020603@simplistix.co.uk>

Alan G Isaac wrote:
> On 8/13/2009 7:58 AM John Machin apparently wrote:
>> Duck typing: ask a silly question, get a silly answer.
> 
> Maybe if you learned to be a more generous reader,
> fewer questions would look "silly" to you.

If you take a look at the crap that John very patiently wades through on 
the python-excel group, you might consider that a little light hearted 
sarcasm isn't much to put up with ;-)

FWIW, if you're using csv because you think .xls is too hard to 
generate, try xlwt :-)

cheers,

Chris

-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting
            - http://www.simplistix.co.uk


From cjw at ncf.ca  Fri Aug 14 13:14:16 2009
From: cjw at ncf.ca (Colin J. Williams)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:14:16 -0400
Subject: trouble with reload
In-Reply-To: <02957215$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <24956946.post@talk.nabble.com>		
	<02957215$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:23:17 -0400, Colin J. Williams wrote:
> 
>> It's typically a user module that needs to be reloaded.
> 
> What's a user module?
A module written by a user, as distinguished from a libary
> 
> 
>> It seems that  del sys.modules['moduleName'] has no effect.
> 
> sys.modules is just a dictionary, I find it hard to believe that deleting 
> from it has no effect. It works for me:
> 
>>>> import sys
>>>> import math
>>>> 'math' in sys.modules
> True
>>>> del sys.modules['math']
>>>> 'math' in sys.modules
> False
> 
> What behaviour do you get?
> 
> 
> Of course deleting the math module from the cache doesn't do anything to 
> the math module in your namespace:
> 
>>>> math
> 
>>>> del math
>>>> math
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "", line 1, in 
> NameError: name 'math' is not defined
> 
> Of course deleting the module (or reloading it) doesn't have any effect 
> on any objects you already have:
> 
> 
>>>> import math
>>>> func = math.sin
>>>> del sys.modules['math']
>>>> del math
>>>> math.sin(1.2)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "", line 1, in 
> NameError: name 'math' is not defined
>>>> func(1.2)
> 0.93203908596722629
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> Is there some other way of ensuring that any import goes to
>> moduleName.py, instead of moduleName.pyc?
> 
> Delete moduleName.pyc.
> 
> Make sure the .pyc file doesn't exist in the first place.
> 
> Make sure the last modification date of the .py file is newer than the 
> modification date of the .pyc file.

That's easier said than done, when one is working with an IDE.  The cached 
.pyc file might be different from that in the file.

Colin W.
> 
> 
> 


From chris at simplistix.co.uk  Fri Aug 14 13:16:26 2009
From: chris at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:16:26 +0100
Subject: httplib incredibly slow :-(
In-Reply-To: 
References: 		
	
Message-ID: <4A859BEA.9070701@simplistix.co.uk>

Aahz wrote:
> Sorry, I mostly have been working on our Mac port, so I'm not sure what's
> needed to make this work on Windows.  Did you try downloading the PyCurl
> binary?  Maybe it statically links libcurl on Windows.

Shame it's not available as a bdist_egg, that's what I'm really after...

> What do you need to know for a decent example?

Simple download of a file from a url with some auth headers added would 
do me.
Other than that, nice to haves would be how to build a http post with 
fields in a multi-part body, some of which might be files.

cheers,

Chris

-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting
            - http://www.simplistix.co.uk


From nad at acm.org  Fri Aug 14 13:21:16 2009
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 10:21:16 -0700
Subject: Natural Language Processing in Python
References: 
Message-ID: 

In article 
,
 Prateek  wrote:
> Can somebody please provide me link to a good online resource or e-
> book for doing natural language processing programming in Python.

Check out the Natural Language Toolkit:
http://www.nltk.org/

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org



From daniel.eliason at excite.com  Fri Aug 14 13:25:17 2009
From: daniel.eliason at excite.com (fortunatus)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 10:25:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: A Exhibition Of Tech Geekers Incompetence: Emacs whitespace-mode
References: <61ef4451-d6b6-493b-b4a0-1822a901ca8d@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 14, 1:01?pm, vippstar  wrote:
> Why would you fill your website with junk?

The OP made it clear:

>Just wanted to express some frustration with whitespace-mode.


From vippstar at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 13:31:39 2009
From: vippstar at gmail.com (vippstar)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 10:31:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: A Exhibition Of Tech Geekers Incompetence: Emacs whitespace-mode
References: <61ef4451-d6b6-493b-b4a0-1822a901ca8d@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 14, 8:25?pm, fortunatus  wrote:
> On Aug 14, 1:01?pm, vippstar  wrote:
>
> > Why would you fill your website with junk?
>
> The OP made it clear:
>
> >Just wanted to express some frustration with whitespace-mode.

You took my question out of context and answered it. I read the
article, it's not like I missed any of it. Plus, it's not a real
answer. "Because I wanted to". Why did you? Why would you?


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Aug 14 13:43:15 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 19:43:15 +0200
Subject: callable virtual method
In-Reply-To: <7eljaoF2fnkqgU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: <4A85798B.6020501@sequans.com>	<4A8587A0.6040008@mrabarnett.plus.com>	
	<7eljaoF2fnkqgU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <4A85A233.9030905@sequans.com>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> Jean-Michel Pichavant schrieb:
>> MRAB wrote:
>>> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>>>> Hi fellows,
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone know a way to write virtual methods (in one virtual 
>>>> class) that will raise an exception only if called without being 
>>>> overridden ?
>>>> Currently in the virtual method I'm checking that the class of the 
>>>> instance calling the method has defined that method as well.
>>>>
>>>> Example:
>>>>
>>>> class Stream(object):
>>>>    """Interface of all stream objects"""
>>>>    def resetStats(self):
>>>>        """Reset the stream statistics. All values a zeroed except 
>>>> the date."""
>>>>        _log.info('Reset statistics of %s' % self)
>>>>        if self.__class__.resetStats == Stream.resetStats:
>>>>            raise NotImplementedError()
>>>>
>>>> It works but it's tedious, I have to add these 2 lines to every 
>>>> virtual method, changing the content of the 2 lines.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe there is a nice/builtin way to do so (python 2.4)
>>>>
>>> Why are you checking which class it's in? The method in the base class
>>> will be called only if it hasn't been overridden in the subclass.
>>
>> Sorry guys (means guys *and* gals :op ), I realized I've not been 
>> able to describe precisely what I want to do.
>> I'd like the base class to be virtual (aka abstract). However it may 
>> be abstract but it does not mean it cannot do some usefull stuff.
>>
>>
>> Here is the schema of my abstract methods :
>>
>> class Interface(object):
>>    def method(self):
>>        # ---------------------
>>        # some common stuff executed here
>>        # ---------------------
>>        print 'hello world'
>>        # ---------------------
>>        # here shall stand child specific stuff (empty in the 
>> interface method)
>>        # ---------------------
>>        if self.__class__.method == Interface.method:
>>            raise NotImplementedError('You should have read the 
>> f****** manual ! You must override this method.')
>>
>> class GoodChild(Interface):
>>    def method(self):
>>       Interface.method(self) # I want to process the cool stuff done 
>> my the base Interface
>>       # ------------------------
>>       # Specific GoodChild stuff here
>>       # ------------------------
>>       print 'I am a good'
>>       return 'perfect'
>>
>> class BadChild(Interface):
>>    pass #I'm too lazy
>>
>>
>> good = GoodChild()
>> bad = BadChild()
>>
>> good.method()
>> ...hello world
>> ...I am a good
>>
>> bad.method()
>> ...NotImplementedError: You should have read the f****** manual ! You 
>> must override this method.
>>
>>
>> The reason I'd like to do so: I'll be providing the Interface, but 
>> child classes will be overridden by others. Having a reliable error 
>> RTFM feedback is a time saver, for me and the users.
>> I hope I clarified my issue.
>
> First of all, I doubt the above code really yields that output. You 
> are missing a super-call there in GoodChild
>
> And the whole problem goes magically away if you start using OO a bit:
>
>
> class Base(object):
>
>
>   def method(self):
>       self._do_some_work_for_method()
>       print "some more work"
>
>   def _do_some_work_for_method(self):
>       raise NotImplemented
>
>
> So your subclasses must implement something else instead of method - 
> and voila, without any hassle things work as expected.
>
> Diez

It does yield that output, there's an unbound call to Interface.method.

Your solution will work, for sure. The problem is that it will dumb down 
the Base class interface, multiplying the number of methods by 2. This 
would not be an issue in many cases, in mine there's already too much 
meaningful methods in my class for me to add artificial ones.

Thanks for the tip anyway.
JM








From wiggly at wiggly.org  Fri Aug 14 13:53:02 2009
From: wiggly at wiggly.org (Nigel Rantor)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:53:02 +0100
Subject: callable virtual method
In-Reply-To: <4A85A233.9030905@sequans.com>
References: <4A85798B.6020501@sequans.com>	<4A8587A0.6040008@mrabarnett.plus.com>		<7eljaoF2fnkqgU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<4A85A233.9030905@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <4A85A47E.308@wiggly.org>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> 
> Your solution will work, for sure. The problem is that it will dumb down 
> the Base class interface, multiplying the number of methods by 2. This 
> would not be an issue in many cases, in mine there's already too much 
> meaningful methods in my class for me to add artificial ones.
> 
> Thanks for the tip anyway.

I suggest you reconsider.

You asked a question and have been given a standard way of achieving the 
desired outcome.

It's common in OO to use a Template pattern like this.

If you're not interested in finding out how loads of people have already 
solved the problem then why ask?

The methods that require overriding can be prefixed with an underscore 
so that people get a hint that they are an implementation detail rather 
than part of the public interface.

I don't see your problem, other than a vague aesthetic unease.

Regards,

   n


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Aug 14 13:55:59 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 14 Aug 2009 17:55:59 GMT
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<3611ca55-79a6-4336-9041-07d0893789f7@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
	<0447e8a2-508d-45b2-8d15-da0cc2a56b5f@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	
	<494d80f1-0b47-468c-bdd9-7a087f6d915c@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	
	<7877b03a-09da-4836-804c-502b6f78003c@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<02933e60$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<2cdc3f88-1952-4ca2-9754-5b7583fb5fd8@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0295958b$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

I think I've spent enough time on this discussion, so I won't be directly 
responding to any of your recent points -- it's clear that I'm not 
persuading you that there's any justification for any behaviour for 
escape sequences other than the way C++ deals with them. That's your 
prerogative, of course, but I've done enough tilting at windmills for 
this week, so I'll just make one final comment and then withdraw from an 
unproductive argument. (I will make an effort to read any final comments 
you wish to make, so feel free to reply. Just don't expect an answer to 
any questions.)

Douglas, you and I clearly have a difference of opinion on this. Neither 
of us have provided even the tiniest amount of objective, replicable, 
reliable data on the error-proneness of the C++ approach versus that of 
Python. The supposed superiority of the C++ approach is entirely 
subjective and based on personal opinion instead of quantitative facts.

I prefer languages that permit anything that isn't explicitly forbidden, 
so I'm happy that Python treats non-special escape sequences as valid, 
and your attempts to convince me that this goes against the Zen have 
entirely failed to convince me. As I've done before, I will admit that 
one consequence of this design is that it makes it hard to introduce new 
escape sequences to Python. Given that it's vanishingly rare to want to 
do so, and that wanting to add backslashes to strings is common, I think 
that's a reasonable tradeoff. Other languages may make different 
tradeoffs, and that's fine by me.



-- 
Steven


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Aug 14 13:57:17 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 19:57:17 +0200
Subject: A Exhibition Of Tech Geekers Incompetence: Emacs whitespace-mode
In-Reply-To: 
References: <61ef4451-d6b6-493b-b4a0-1822a901ca8d@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>	
	
	
Message-ID: <4A85A57D.8030908@sequans.com>

vippstar wrote:
> On Aug 14, 8:25 pm, fortunatus  wrote:
>   
>> On Aug 14, 1:01 pm, vippstar  wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> Why would you fill your website with junk?
>>>       
>> The OP made it clear:
>>
>>     
>>> Just wanted to express some frustration with whitespace-mode.
>>>       
>
> You took my question out of context and answered it. I read the
> article, it's not like I missed any of it. Plus, it's not a real
> answer. "Because I wanted to". Why did you? Why would you?
>   
FYI, Xah Lee is a well known BTFL (Benevolent Troller For Life), you 
shouldn't argue about one of his post.


From cjw at ncf.ca  Fri Aug 14 13:57:18 2009
From: cjw at ncf.ca (Colin J. Williams)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:57:18 -0400
Subject: retrieve item from nested list given index tuple
In-Reply-To: <02958ab2$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 
	<02958ab2$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:54:54 +0000, Alan G Isaac wrote:
> 
>> `lst` is a nested list
>>
>> `tpl` is the indexes for an item in the list
> 
>> What is the nice way to retrieve the item? (Speedy access is nice.)
> 
> Assuming you want to do this frequently, write a helper function, then 
> use it:
> 
> # Untested
> def extract(nested, indexes):
>     for index in indexes:
>         nested = nested[index]
>     return nested

This looks OK for the first level of nesting.  We are not told much about tpl 
but suppose that:

lst= [a, [b, [c, d]], [e, f]] and that we wish to retrieve d and f from lst. 
tpl would need to be something like [[1, 1, 1], [2, 1]].

If that is the requirement, then Untested is only a step along the road, 
extract could be made recursive.

Colin W.
> 
> 
>> I don't want to use NumPy, but I'd like somehow to avoid an explicit
>> loop.  I did consider using eval.  E.g., eval('lst' +
>> '[%d]'*len(tpl)%tpl). It works but seems rather ugly.
> 
> And slow.
> 
> 
>> I kind of like
>> reduce(list.__getitem__, tpl, lst) but the reliance on reduce remains
>> controversial enough to see i removed from the Python 3 built-ins ...
> 
> It's just moved into functools.
> 
> 
>>>> lst = ['a', 'b', ['aa', ['aaa', 'bbb', 'ccc'], 'cc']]
>>>> from functools import reduce
>>>> lst = ['a', 'b', ['aa', ['aaa', 'bbb', 'ccc'], 'cc']]
>>>> reduce(list.__getitem__, (2, 1, 0), lst)
> 'aaa'
> 
> 
> However, it doesn't work too well as soon as you mix sequence types:
> 
>>>> reduce(list.__getitem__, (2, 1, 0, 0), lst)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "", line 1, in 
> TypeError: descriptor '__getitem__' requires a 'list' object but received 
> a 'str'
> 
> Try this instead:
> 
>>>> from operator import getitem
>>>> reduce(getitem, (2, 1, 0), lst)
> 'aaa'
>>>> reduce(getitem, (2, 1, 0, 0), lst)
> 'a'
> 
> operator.getitem is less ugly too.
> 
> 

Colin W.


From alan.isaac at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 14:02:58 2009
From: alan.isaac at gmail.com (Alan G Isaac)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:02:58 GMT
Subject: retrieve item from nested list given index tuple
In-Reply-To: <02958ab2$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 
	<02958ab2$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

On 8/14/2009 1:09 PM Steven D'Aprano apparently wrote:
> Try this instead:
> 
>>>> from operator import getitem
>>>> reduce(getitem, (2, 1, 0), lst)
> 'aaa'
>>>> reduce(getitem, (2, 1, 0, 0), lst)
> 'a'
> 
> operator.getitem is less ugly too.


Yes, that's better.
Thanks,
Alan


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Aug 14 14:03:27 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 14 Aug 2009 18:03:27 GMT
Subject: trouble with reload
References: <24956946.post@talk.nabble.com>
	
	
	<02957215$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <0295974b$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:14:16 -0400, Colin J. Williams wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:23:17 -0400, Colin J. Williams wrote:
>> 
>>> It's typically a user module that needs to be reloaded.
>> 
>> What's a user module?
> A module written by a user, as distinguished from a libary

You mean an end-user of the application? Or you mean the application 
programmer? 

I'm not sure there is any difference between "user modules" and "library 
modules" apart from what they do.

Perhaps it would help if you could explain the circumstances of when you 
would reload a module. During application development, for an incremental 
edit/reload/test cycle? Or while the completed application is being 
executed?


>>> Is there some other way of ensuring that any import goes to
>>> moduleName.py, instead of moduleName.pyc?
>> 
>> Delete moduleName.pyc.
>> 
>> Make sure the .pyc file doesn't exist in the first place.
>> 
>> Make sure the last modification date of the .py file is newer than the
>> modification date of the .pyc file.
> 
> That's easier said than done, when one is working with an IDE.  The
> cached .pyc file might be different from that in the file.

If the IDE is getting in your way, then don't use it.

Or if you tell us what IDE you're using, and precisely what it is doing, 
somebody can tell you how to defeat the IDE's cache.

(That won't be me -- I don't use IDEs.)

Or perhaps you're entire approach is wrong, and you shouldn't be using 
reload() at all. Don't know.



-- 
Steven


From dullrich at sprynet.com  Fri Aug 14 14:18:35 2009
From: dullrich at sprynet.com (David C Ullrich)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:18:35 -0500
Subject: Komodo(!)
Message-ID: <-7ydndQXQODmNxjXRVn_vwA@giganews.com>

Probably this isn't news to anyone but me, but just in case:

Last I heard Komodo was a very highly regarded IDE that unfortunately
cost money. Yesterday I discovered that they now have an editor
available for free.

Doesn't contain all the features of the IDE, but just having glanced
at it it seems to contain more than I'll ever use. What I really
like about it is that one can write Komodo scripts in Python
(using an extensive API allowing various manipulations of the
current document).




From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Aug 14 14:20:41 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 14 Aug 2009 18:20:41 GMT
Subject: callable virtual method
References: <4A85798B.6020501@sequans.com>
	<4A8587A0.6040008@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	
Message-ID: <02959b54$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:49:26 +0200, Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:

> Sorry guys (means guys *and* gals :op ), I realized I've not been able
> to describe precisely what I want to do. I'd like the base class to be
> virtual (aka abstract). However it may be abstract but it does not mean
> it cannot do some usefull stuff.
> 
> 
> Here is the schema of my abstract methods :
> 
> class Interface(object):
>     def method(self):
>         # ---------------------
>         # some common stuff executed here
>         # ---------------------
>         print 'hello world'
>         # ---------------------
>         # here shall stand child specific stuff (empty in the interface
> method)
>         # ---------------------
>         if self.__class__.method == Interface.method:
>             raise NotImplementedError('You should have read the f******
> manual ! You must override this method.')


Okay, so I want to sub-class your Interface class. As you said, the 
methods in the abstract class are still useful, so in my class, I don't 
need any extra functionality for some methods -- I'm happy with just the 
"common stuff". So I use normal OO techniques and over-ride just the 
methods I need to over-ride:

class GoodChild(Interface):
    # no need to over-ride method, because it does everything I want
    # but over-ride other methods that don't
    def whatever(self):
        print "Whatever..."
        return Interface.whatever()

But now my class fails, with an insulting error message *wink*, and you 
force me to write a whole lot of crappy stupid boilerplate code:

class VerboseGoodChild(Interface):
    # forced to over-ride methods for no good reason
    def method(self):
        return Interface.method(self)
    def another_method(self):
        return Interface.another_method(self)
    def yet_another_method(self):
        return Interface.yet_another_method(self)
    def still_more_methods(self):
        return Interface.still_more_methods(self)
    # Whew! That was a waste of effort. Now at last over-ride the
    # methods I need to:
    def whatever(self):
        print "Whatever..."
        return Interface.whatever()

After the fourth such class, I say "Bugger this for a game of soldiers" 
and dump your Interface class for something else.


> The reason I'd like to do so: I'll be providing the Interface, but child
> classes will be overridden by others. Having a reliable error RTFM
> feedback is a time saver, for me and the users. I hope I clarified my
> issue.

The usual way of implementing abstract base classes is to simply prohibit 
instantiation of the class, but allow all other inheritance. Putting 
useful functionality in methods, but then prohibiting subclasses from 
using them without jumping through hoops first, seems rather perverse to 
me.



-- 
Steven


From vlastimil.brom at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 14:26:00 2009
From: vlastimil.brom at gmail.com (Vlastimil Brom)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 20:26:00 +0200
Subject: Natural Language Processing in Python
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <9fdb569a0908141126x19d2d4c5q6abc99de7e390f94@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/14 Prateek :
> Hi,
>
> Can somebody please provide me link to a good online resource or e-
> book for doing natural language processing programming in Python.
>
> Thanks,
> Prateek
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

Maybe you could start with NLTK
http://www.nltk.org/
Check the toolkit as well as the documentation.

hth
  vbr


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Aug 14 14:29:03 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 20:29:03 +0200
Subject: callable virtual method
In-Reply-To: <4A85A47E.308@wiggly.org>
References: <4A85798B.6020501@sequans.com>	<4A8587A0.6040008@mrabarnett.plus.com>		<7eljaoF2fnkqgU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<4A85A233.9030905@sequans.com> <4A85A47E.308@wiggly.org>
Message-ID: <4A85ACEF.4090901@sequans.com>

Nigel Rantor wrote:
> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>>
>> Your solution will work, for sure. The problem is that it will dumb 
>> down the Base class interface, multiplying the number of methods by 
>> 2. This would not be an issue in many cases, in mine there's already 
>> too much meaningful methods in my class for me to add artificial ones.
>>
>> Thanks for the tip anyway.
>
> I suggest you reconsider.
>
> You asked a question and have been given a standard way of achieving 
> the desired outcome.
>
> It's common in OO to use a Template pattern like this.
>
> If you're not interested in finding out how loads of people have 
> already solved the problem then why ask?
>
> The methods that require overriding can be prefixed with an underscore 
> so that people get a hint that they are an implementation detail 
> rather than part of the public interface.
>
> I don't see your problem, other than a vague aesthetic unease.
>
> Regards,
>
>   n
I understand how refuting some obvious solution may look just stupid. 
You're right, I shouldn't have asked.

By the way I'd like to know if I am I alone to find that

class Stream:
    def start
    def stop
    def reset

is better than

class Stream:
    def start
    def _start
    def stop
    def _stop
    def reset
    def _reset

(try to figure out with 20+ methods)
What you call aesthetic may sometimes fall into readability.


JM



From invalid at invalid  Fri Aug 14 14:38:27 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:38:27 -0500
Subject: Any way to adjust difflib algorithm?
Message-ID: 

I'm trying to use difflib to compare two files, and it's not
producing very useful results.  When comparing two lines where
only a few characters have changed, it usually seems to decide
that a line was deleted/inserted/replaced rather than changed.

Here's how I'm using it:

   #!/usr/bin/python
   import sys,difflib
   
   fromlines = [l.rstrip('\n') for l in open(sys.argv[1]).readlines()]
   tolines   = [l.rstrip('\n') for l in open(sys.argv[2]).readlines()]
   
   print difflib.HtmlDiff().make_file(fromlines,tolines)
   
In my particular usage, no lines have ever been
inserted/deleted, so perhaps I should be running diffs on
individual lines instead?  If I do that, I can't figure out how
to generate HTML output.

Is there a way to tell the differ to try harder to match lines?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! I hope something GOOD
                                  at               came in the mail today so
                               visi.com            I have a REASON to live!!


From davea at ieee.org  Fri Aug 14 14:50:10 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 14:50:10 -0400
Subject: implementing descriptors
In-Reply-To: <85502415-f861-43ab-8827-4184952d8bea@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
References: <39aff5a5-97ec-41f7-ab26-6e4d842b9c5c@r33g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>	
	
	
	<85502415-f861-43ab-8827-4184952d8bea@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A85B1E2.10209@ieee.org>

dippim wrote:
> On Aug 14, 10:48 am, Dave Angel  wrote:
>   
>> dippim wrote:
>>     
>>> On Aug 14, 2:34 am, Raymond Hettinger  wrote:
>>>       
>>>> [David]
>>>>         
>>>>> I am new to Python and I have a question about descriptors.  If I have
>>>>> a class as written below, is there a way to use descriptors to be
>>>>> certain that the datetime in start is always before the one in end?
>>>>>           
>>>>> class foo(object):
>>>>>    def __init__(self,a =e,b = None)
>>>>>       self.start > >>>       self.end >
>>>>> from datetime import datetime
>>>>> c =etime(2009,8,13,6,15,0)
>>>>> d =etime(2009,8,14,12,0,0)
>>>>> afoo =(c,d)
>>>>>           
>>>>> For instance, if the following code were run, I would like to instance
>>>>> of foo to switch the start and end times.
>>>>>           
>>>>> afoo.start =etime(2010,8,13,6,15,0)
>>>>>           
>>>>> I was thinking of using the __set__ descriptor to catch the assignment
>>>>> and reverse the values if necessary, but I can't figure out how to
>>>>> determine which values is being set.
>>>>>           
>>>> You're on the right track, but it is easier to use property() than to
>>>> write your own custom descriptor with __get__ and __set__.
>>>>         
>>>> class foo(object):
>>>>     def __init__(self,a =e,b = None):
>>>>         self._start > >>         self._end > >>     def get_start(self):
>>>>         return self._start
>>>>     def set_start(self, value):
>>>>         if self._end is None or value < self._end:
>>>>             self._start =ue
>>>>         else:
>>>>             self._end =ue
>>>>     start =perty(get_start, set_start)
>>>>     def get_end(self):
>>>>         return self._end
>>>>     def set_end(self, value):
>>>>         if self._start is None or value > self._start:
>>>>             self._end =ue
>>>>         else:
>>>>             self._start =ue
>>>>     end =perty(get_end, set_end)
>>>>         
>>>> Raymond
>>>>         
>>> Raymond,
>>>    This functionality is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!  I'll
>>> be using this to solve my problem.
>>>       
>>>    Now that I'm on the right track, I'm still a bit confused about how
>>> __get__ and __set__ are useful.  Admittedly, I don't need to
>>> understand them to solve this problem, but perhaps they may be useful
>>> in the future.  If I wanted to solve this problem using __get__ and
>>> __set__ could it be done?
>>>       
>>> Thanks Again!
>>>       
>> DANGER- WILL ROBINSON!
>>
>> Don't use this code as-is.  There is a nasty surprise waiting for the
>> caller when he sets start and end, and discovers that one of them gets
>> thrown out, and an old value still remains.
>>
>> obj=oo(3, 5)
>> obj.start = 8
>> obj.end = 12
>> print obj.start, obj.end
>>
>> will print out  3, 12.    Not what the caller expected.
>>     
>
> You're right about this and I appreciate the warning, but I think what
> Raymond was going for was directional accuracy without a great deal of
> his time wasted on details.  The explanation served the purpose of
> moving me forward using property() and I'm thankful for it.
>
>   
>> Four fixes, in order of preference:
>> 0) Trust your user to read and obey your docstrings.  This was what JM
>> was implying, by changing the names of the formal parameters.
>>     
>
> Considering I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer, I don't wish to
> start a philosophical discussion about the relative aptitude and
> capabilities of the people who might use a class I build.  However, I
> will say that as this particular requirement is imposed on this class
> by the writer, shouldn't it be the writer's responsibility to enforce
> it, especially, when the cost of enforcement is so low?
>
>   
>> 1)  make a new method that sets both values, making these two properties
>> readonly.  That new method would make sure the two parameters are
>> self-consistent.  Making the actual values readonly can be done with a
>> descriptor as well, or even a decorator.
>>     
>
>   
>> 2) Raise an exception in the getter methods if they're out of order
>> 3) do the min/max logic on the getter methods, but I don't like that one
>> at all.
>>
>> DaveA
>>     
>
>
>   
I'm going to assume by "writer" you mean yourself?  In other words, the 
interface isn't being forced upon you by someone else?  So I'll continue 
to push for a cleaner/clearer interface.

I'm not going to make any judgment about the relative abilities of you 
and the caller of your class.  You make the final judgment call on how 
much you want to bulletproof your interface.

But occasionally the "automatic fix" causes more problems than it 
solves.  Now, this time you use the word "enforce," which is much 
different than the original implied "fix up."  So I'll assume you mean 
it literally, that you want to detect when the caller has broken the 
rules, and raise an exception in that case.  In either case, you need to 
define what "the rules" are.  And normally this is done by specifying 
invariants.

I think you're declaring an invariant that, at all times, the object has 
two datetime attributes, and that obj.start is no greater than obj.end.  
If the attributes are individually writable, and you do the swap at that 
time, you get into the trouble I described above.  On the other hand, if 
you just do a raise, then your caller would still get into trouble for 
the same sequence of calls.

So the cure is to either make a new method that explicitly changes both, 
or don't do the actual check for order till he tries to read the 
values.   In that latter case, you're changing the invariant subtly, to 
say that if the object is temporarily in an invalid state, one cannot 
call any other methods or fetch values till the state has been 
corrected.  A real pain to describe, but occasionally useful.

This problem of an object temporarily being in an invalid state is not 
an uncommon one.  But most of us have fallen into one of the pitfalls at 
one time or another.

DaveA





From wiggly at wiggly.org  Fri Aug 14 14:53:37 2009
From: wiggly at wiggly.org (Nigel Rantor)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 19:53:37 +0100
Subject: callable virtual method
In-Reply-To: <4A85ACEF.4090901@sequans.com>
References: <4A85798B.6020501@sequans.com>	<4A8587A0.6040008@mrabarnett.plus.com>		<7eljaoF2fnkqgU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>	<4A85A233.9030905@sequans.com>
	<4A85A47E.308@wiggly.org> <4A85ACEF.4090901@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <4A85B2B1.6090906@wiggly.org>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> Nigel Rantor wrote:
>> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>>>
>>> Your solution will work, for sure. The problem is that it will dumb 
>>> down the Base class interface, multiplying the number of methods by 
>>> 2. This would not be an issue in many cases, in mine there's already 
>>> too much meaningful methods in my class for me to add artificial ones.
>>>
>>> Thanks for the tip anyway.
>>
>> I suggest you reconsider.
>>
>> You asked a question and have been given a standard way of achieving 
>> the desired outcome.
>>
>> It's common in OO to use a Template pattern like this.
>>
>> If you're not interested in finding out how loads of people have 
>> already solved the problem then why ask?
>>
>> The methods that require overriding can be prefixed with an underscore 
>> so that people get a hint that they are an implementation detail 
>> rather than part of the public interface.
>>
>> I don't see your problem, other than a vague aesthetic unease.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>   n
> I understand how refuting some obvious solution may look just stupid. 
> You're right, I shouldn't have asked.

I never said it seemed stupid. I was merely curious as to why you'd ask 
a question and ignore solutions.

> By the way I'd like to know if I am I alone to find that
> 
> class Stream:
>    def start
>    def stop
>    def reset
> 
> is better than
> 
> class Stream:
>    def start
>    def _start
>    def stop
>    def _stop
>    def reset
>    def _reset
> 
> (try to figure out with 20+ methods)
> What you call aesthetic may sometimes fall into readability.

Depends on what you mean by "better".

Do you mean pleasing to your eye or performs the task you want it to?

Assuming you are taking the aesthetic viewpoint I think that in this 
case it will depend on how you set out your code.

Realise that all of the underscore methods for your class are 
boilerplate, they simply raise an exception.

They can all be at the end of the file, commented as an entire block to 
be left alone.

Editing the main body of code is then fairly easy, and uncluttered...

e.g.

#
# Stream class blah blah blah
#
class Stream:

     def start

     def stop

     def reset

#
# stubs to be over-ridden in sub-classes, add one for each
# method that requires overriding.
#
     def _start
     def _stop
     def _reset

Regards,

   Nigel

p.s. Please take this in the spirit it is offered. I'm trying to stop 
you from ignoring a good suggestion, not make you feel like a fool.


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Fri Aug 14 14:56:58 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 14:56:58 -0400
Subject: Any way to adjust difflib algorithm?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908141156y2567464aod75aaf1a668c1d33@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 2:38 PM, Grant Edwards wrote:
> I'm trying to use difflib to compare two files, and it's not
> producing very useful results. ?When comparing two lines where
> only a few characters have changed, it usually seems to decide
> that a line was deleted/inserted/replaced rather than changed.

> Is there a way to tell the differ to try harder to match lines?

You could use a wordwise diff instead: http://www.gnu.org/software/wdiff/
Obviously that's not a pure Python solution though.

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From invalid at invalid  Fri Aug 14 15:18:59 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 14:18:59 -0500
Subject: Any way to adjust difflib algorithm?
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-14, Grant Edwards  wrote:

> I'm trying to use difflib to compare two files, and it's not
> producing very useful results.  When comparing two lines where
> only a few characters have changed, it usually seems to decide
> that a line was deleted/inserted/replaced rather than changed.

[...]

> In my particular usage, no lines have ever been
> inserted/deleted, so perhaps I should be running diffs on
> individual lines instead?  If I do that, I can't figure out
> how to generate HTML output.

I ended up using the SequenceMatcher on individual pairs of
lines and generating my own HTML based on the results of
get_matching_blocks().

That produced the desired results.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! I have a very good
                                  at               DENTAL PLAN.  Thank you.
                               visi.com            


From davea at ieee.org  Fri Aug 14 15:24:39 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:24:39 -0400
Subject: callable virtual method
In-Reply-To: <4A85ACEF.4090901@sequans.com>
References: <4A85798B.6020501@sequans.com>	<4A8587A0.6040008@mrabarnett.plus.com>		<7eljaoF2fnkqgU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>	<4A85A233.9030905@sequans.com>
	<4A85A47E.308@wiggly.org> <4A85ACEF.4090901@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <4A85B9F7.4010201@ieee.org>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> 
Nigel 
> Rantor wrote:
>> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>>>
>>> Your solution will work, for sure. The problem is that it will dumb 
>>> down the Base class interface, multiplying the number of methods by 
>>> 2. This would not be an issue in many cases, in mine there's already 
>>> too much meaningful methods in my class for me to add artificial ones.
>>>
>>> Thanks for the tip anyway.
>>
>> I suggest you reconsider.
>>
>> You asked a question and have been given a standard way of achieving 
>> the desired outcome.
>>
>> It's common in OO to use a Template pattern like this.
>>
>> If you're not interested in finding out how loads of people have 
>> already solved the problem then why ask?
>>
>> The methods that require overriding can be prefixed with an 
>> underscore so that people get a hint that they are an implementation 
>> detail rather than part of the public interface.
>>
>> I don't see your problem, other than a vague aesthetic unease.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>   n
> I understand how refuting some obvious solution may look just stupid. 
> You're right, I shouldn't have asked.
>
> By the way I'd like to know if I am I alone to find that
>
> class Stream:
>    def start
>    def stop
>    def reset
>
> is better than
>
> class Stream:
>    def start
>    def _start
>    def stop
>    def _stop
>    def reset
>    def _reset
>
> (try to figure out with 20+ methods)
> What you call aesthetic may sometimes fall into readability.
>
>
> JM
>
>
> 

>
Usually when one defines an abstract base class, one expects many people 
will derive from it, as opposed to only one having to write it.  So if 
the base must be "ugly" according to some definition, so be it.  
Aesthetics are quite subjective.

Nigel's approach has another benefit not stated, which is to keep the 
child class code simpler.  They avoid the need to call any base class 
method to access the common logic.  The downside is it assumes that the 
common logic will always be either at the beginning or always at the end 
of the child classes implementation.  That's because the base class has 
hardcoded where in its implementation to call the child class method.

Anyway, without arguing for or against either approach, I'd point out 
that you could have an extra formal parameter in the base method, which 
is a private signal from the child class that this is the internal 
call.  Missing such a formal parameter would then trigger the "missing 
method in derived class" error message.  You'd check such a parameter 
the same place as you're now checking the object's type.

DaveA




From kee at kagi.com  Fri Aug 14 15:28:54 2009
From: kee at kagi.com (Kee Nethery)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 12:28:54 -0700
Subject: Komodo(!)
In-Reply-To: <-7ydndQXQODmNxjXRVn_vwA@giganews.com>
References: <-7ydndQXQODmNxjXRVn_vwA@giganews.com>
Message-ID: 

 From the web site it looks like the free version does not include the  
debugging stuff.

I've been using the paid version with the debugger functionality and I  
find it easy to use and incredibly nice for trying to understand what  
the code is doing. The built-in debugger has saved me tons of time,  
especially when troubleshooting CGIs.

I'm using a Mac and of the Python IDEs I looked at, Komodo had the  
easiest to use user interface, in my opinion.

Kee


From kennyken747 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 15:29:12 2009
From: kennyken747 at gmail.com (kennyken747)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 12:29:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Something like wibiya?
Message-ID: <78de82ac-72d2-472f-92ba-d0d3cb2e0b99@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>

Would Python be an efficient language to go about coding something
like the toolbar from http://www.wibiya.com/index.php ?

And then, how would I implement it?


-Kenny Ledet
Owner of Hotontheblock.com, Urban News Blog


From davea at ieee.org  Fri Aug 14 15:32:40 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:32:40 -0400
Subject: retrieve item from nested list given index tuple
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<02958ab2$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <4A85BBD8.7000409@ieee.org>

Colin J. Williams wrote:
> 
Steven 
> D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:54:54 +0000, Alan G Isaac wrote:
>>
>>> `lst` is a nested list
>>>
>>> `tpl` is the indexes for an item in the list
>>
>>> What is the nice way to retrieve the item? (Speedy access is nice.)
>>
>> Assuming you want to do this frequently, write a helper function, 
>> then use it:
>>
>> # Untested
>> def extract(nested, indexes):
>>     for index in indexes:
>>         nested = nested[index]
>>     return nested
>
> This looks OK for the first level of nesting.  We are not told much 
> about tpl but suppose that:
>
> lst= [a, [b, [c, d]], [e, f]] and that we wish to retrieve d and f 
> from lst. tpl would need to be something like [[1, 1, 1], [2, 1]].
>
> If that is the requirement, then Untested is only a step along the 
> road, extract could be made recursive.
>
> Colin W.
> 

You missed the point:   he's retrieving *an*  item from a list that's 
nested arbitrarily.  Each item in the tpl (tuple) is a simple integer.


DaveA



From cjwilliams43 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 15:55:29 2009
From: cjwilliams43 at gmail.com (Colin J. Williams)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:55:29 -0400
Subject: retrieve item from nested list given index tuple
In-Reply-To: <4A85BBD8.7000409@ieee.org>
References: 
	<02958ab2$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	 <4A85BBD8.7000409@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <4A85C131.60905@ncf.ca>



Dave Angel wrote:
> Colin J. Williams wrote:
>> 
Steven 
>> D'Aprano wrote:
>>> On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:54:54 +0000, Alan G Isaac wrote:
>>>
>>>> `lst` is a nested list
>>>>
>>>> `tpl` is the indexes for an item in the list
>>>
>>>> What is the nice way to retrieve the item? (Speedy access is nice.)
>>>
>>> Assuming you want to do this frequently, write a helper function, 
>>> then use it:
>>>
>>> # Untested
>>> def extract(nested, indexes):
>>>     for index in indexes:
>>>         nested = nested[index]
>>>     return nested
>>
>> This looks OK for the first level of nesting.  We are not told much 
>> about tpl but suppose that:
>>
>> lst= [a, [b, [c, d]], [e, f]] and that we wish to retrieve d and f 
>> from lst. tpl would need to be something like [[1, 1, 1], [2, 1]].
>>
>> If that is the requirement, then Untested is only a step along the 
>> road, extract could be made recursive.
>>
>> Colin W.
>> 
>
> You missed the point:   he's retrieving *an*  item from a list that's 
> nested arbitrarily.  Each item in the tpl (tuple) is a simple integer.
>
>
> DaveA
Yes, you are right.

Colin W.
>
>


From mensanator at aol.com  Fri Aug 14 16:07:40 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:07:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python Permutations Problem
References: 
Message-ID: <3ba39961-aec4-4034-beac-9552bb8a7ee6@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 14, 11:28?am, Asanka Wasala  wrote:
> Hi
> I am developing a spell checker for my language, and I came across
> solving an interesing problem. It would be great if you can suggest
> me ?an optimized solution for the problem described below:
>
> I have certain group of letters like these:
>
> Group #1: c,r,b
> Group #2: a,z,k
> Group #3: h,t
> .
> .
>
> Letters within the same group can be substituted/replaced with the
> rest of the letters in that group.
>
> (ie. Group #1 means letter 'c' can be replaced with either 'r' or 'b',
> and letter r can be replaced with either c or b, and letter b can be
> replaced with either r or c)
>
> A group can have upto 3 letters, and letters do not overlap between
> groups. There can be upto 25 such groups.
> Given a word containing above letters, (e.g. 'cat'.) I want to
> generate all possible words by subsituting letters in the groups.
>
> eg. expected output:
>
> cat ? ? rat ? ? bat
> czt ? ? rzt ? ? bzt
> ckt ? ? rkt ? ? bkt
> cah ? ? rah ? ? bah
> czh ? ? rzh ? ? bzh
> ckh ? ? rkh ? ? bkh
>
> My code is given below. But for complex words like 'cccccccccczzk' it
> thows the 'maximum recursion depth exceeded' error. Therefore, can you
> suggest me an optimized solution to achive the above task? Thanks in
> advance.
> --------------------------
> CODE-------------------------------------------
> #-*- coding: UTF-8 -*-
> import re
> def getPermutations(word):
> ? ? def getSimilarLetters(letter):
> ? ? ? ? pattern=u"|c,r,b|a,z,k|h,t|"
> ? ? ? ? list=[]
> ? ? ? ? ptrn=re.compile("(?P\|(.?,)*?"+letter+"(,.)*?\|)")
> ? ? ? ? k=ptrn.search(pattern)
> ? ? ? ? if k:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? letterlist=k.group("grp")[1:-1]
> ? ? ? ? ? ? list=letterlist.split(",")
> ? ? ? ? ? ? list.remove(letter)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? return list
> ? ? ? ? else:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? return letter
>
> ? ? list=[]
>
> ? ? def perm(word):
> ? ? ? ? posi=0
> ? ? ? ? wrd=word
> ? ? ? ? for w in word:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? posi=posi+1
> ? ? ? ? ? ? lst=getSimilarLetters(w)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? if len(lst)>0:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? for l in lst:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? newwrd=wrd[:posi-1]+l+wrd[posi:]
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? if not (newwrd in list):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? list.append(newwrd)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? perm(newwrd)
>
> ? ? try:
> ? ? ? ? perm(word)
> ? ? except RuntimeError:
> ? ? ? ? list=[]
> ? ? ? ? list.append("error")
> ? ? return list
>
> list=getPermutations(u"cat")
>
> for i in list:
> ? ? print i.encode('utf-8')
> --------------------------------------------END of
> CODE-----------------------------------------------------------------------?------

IDLE 2.6.1
>>> import itertools as it
>>> for i in it.product('crb','azk','ht'): print ''.join(i),

cah cat czh czt ckh ckt rah rat rzh rzt rkh rkt bah bat bzh bzt bkh
bkt


From max at alcyone.com  Fri Aug 14 16:10:57 2009
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:10:57 -0700
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in
	string literals]
In-Reply-To: 
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2009-08-14, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
>> What the hell
>> would it actually do???
> 
> IIRC in C++, 
> 
>    cout << "Hello world";
> 
> is equivalent to this in C:
> 
>    printf("Hellow world");
> 
> or this in Python:
> 
>    print "hellow world"

Well, plus or minus newlines.

-- 
Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
  San Jose, CA, USA && 37 18 N 121 57 W && AIM/Y!M/Skype erikmaxfrancis
   It's hard to say what I want my legacy to be when I'm long gone.
    -- Aaliyah


From invalid at invalid  Fri Aug 14 16:13:31 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:13:31 -0500
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in
	string literals]
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <68-dnWijX7T2WBjXnZ2dnUVZ_t6dnZ2d@posted.visi>

On 2009-08-14, Erik Max Francis  wrote:
> Grant Edwards wrote:
>> On 2009-08-14, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
>>> What the hell
>>> would it actually do???
>> 
>> IIRC in C++, 
>> 
>>    cout << "Hello world";
>> 
>> is equivalent to this in C:
>> 
>>    printf("Hellow world");
>> 
>> or this in Python:
>> 
>>    print "hellow world"
>
> Well, plus or minus newlines.

And a few miscellaneous typos...

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! I don't understand
                                  at               the HUMOUR of the THREE
                               visi.com            STOOGES!!


From max at alcyone.com  Fri Aug 14 16:18:04 2009
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:18:04 -0700
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in
	string literals]
In-Reply-To: <68-dnWijX7T2WBjXnZ2dnUVZ_t6dnZ2d@posted.visi>
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<68-dnWijX7T2WBjXnZ2dnUVZ_t6dnZ2d@posted.visi>
Message-ID: 

Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2009-08-14, Erik Max Francis  wrote:
>> Grant Edwards wrote:
>>> On 2009-08-14, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
>>>> What the hell
>>>> would it actually do???
>>> IIRC in C++, 
>>>
>>>    cout << "Hello world";
>>>
>>> is equivalent to this in C:
>>>
>>>    printf("Hellow world");
>>>
>>> or this in Python:
>>>
>>>    print "hellow world"
>> Well, plus or minus newlines.
> 
> And a few miscellaneous typos...

... and includes and namespaces :-).


-- 
Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
  San Jose, CA, USA && 37 18 N 121 57 W && AIM/Y!M/Skype erikmaxfrancis
   It's hard to say what I want my legacy to be when I'm long gone.
    -- Aaliyah


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Aug 14 16:22:10 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 22:22:10 +0200
Subject: callable virtual method
In-Reply-To: <02959b54$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <4A85798B.6020501@sequans.com>	<4A8587A0.6040008@mrabarnett.plus.com>	
	<02959b54$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4A85C772.504@sequans.com>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:49:26 +0200, Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>
>   
>> Sorry guys (means guys *and* gals :op ), I realized I've not been able
>> to describe precisely what I want to do. I'd like the base class to be
>> virtual (aka abstract). However it may be abstract but it does not mean
>> it cannot do some usefull stuff.
>>
>>
>> Here is the schema of my abstract methods :
>>
>> class Interface(object):
>>     def method(self):
>>         # ---------------------
>>         # some common stuff executed here
>>         # ---------------------
>>         print 'hello world'
>>         # ---------------------
>>         # here shall stand child specific stuff (empty in the interface
>> method)
>>         # ---------------------
>>         if self.__class__.method == Interface.method:
>>             raise NotImplementedError('You should have read the f******
>> manual ! You must override this method.')
>>     
>
>
> Okay, so I want to sub-class your Interface class. As you said, the 
> methods in the abstract class are still useful, so in my class, I don't 
> need any extra functionality for some methods -- I'm happy with just the 
> "common stuff". So I use normal OO techniques and over-ride just the 
> methods I need to over-ride:
>
>   
Sometimes the base is doing cool stuff but incomplete stuff which 
requires knowledge only hold by the sub class. In my case the interface 
is a high level interface for a software that can run on multiple 
hardware platforms. Only the sub class has knowledge on how to operate 
the hardware, but no matter the hardware it still produces the same effect.

Let's say I have 50 different hardwares, I'll have 50 sub classes of 
Interface with the 'start' method to define. It wouldn't be appropriate 
(OO programming)to write 50 times '_log.debug('Starting %s' % self)' in 
each child start method when the simple task of logging the call can be 
nicely handled by the base class.

In the meantime, I must make sure  the user, who is not a python guru in 
this case, has implemented the start method for his hardware, because 
only him knows how to effectively start this hardware. I don't want him 
to come to me saying, "I got no error, still my hardware does not 
start". You can then blame him for not reading the docs, but it will 
still be less expensive to throw a nice exception with an accurate feedback.

[snip]
> class VerboseGoodChild(Interface):
>     # forced to over-ride methods for no good reason
>   

Definitely no !! This is the purpose of an interface class: to force 
people to write these methods. They *are* required, if they were not, 
they would not belong to the Interface.

JM


From no.email at please.post  Fri Aug 14 16:23:20 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 20:23:20 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Splitting on '^' ?
Message-ID: 



Sometimes I want to split a string into lines, preserving the
end-of-line markers.  In Perl this is really easy to do, by splitting
on the beginning-of-line anchor:

  @lines = split /^/, $string;

But I can't figure out how to do the same thing with Python.  E.g.:

>>> import re
>>> re.split('^', 'spam\nham\neggs\n')
['spam\nham\neggs\n']
>>> re.split('(?m)^', 'spam\nham\neggs\n')
['spam\nham\neggs\n']
>>> bol_re = re.compile('^', re.M)
>>> bol_re.split('spam\nham\neggs\n')
['spam\nham\neggs\n']

Am I doing something wrong?

kynn


From guthrie at mum.edu  Fri Aug 14 16:25:02 2009
From: guthrie at mum.edu (guthrie)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:25:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: py-rrdTool - install fails
Message-ID: 

I want to do some rrd in a python cgi script, but am having trouble
getting an easy install module.

py-rrdTool looks good, but is distributed in c source, and is missing
a header file in the distribution. Thus the install fails when it
tries to reference rrd.h which is not there.

Are there better rrd modules to use, or a compiled version of this, or
other suggestions?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
building 'rrdtool._rrdtool' extension
C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio 9.0\VC\BIN\cl.exe /c /nologo /
Ox /MD /W3 /GS- /DNDEBUG -I/usr/local\include "-IE:\PLang\Active Python
\include" "-IE:\PLang\Active Python\PC" /Tcsrc/_rrdtoolmodule.c /
Fobuild\temp.win32-2.6\Release\src/_rrdtoolmodule.obj
_rrdtoolmodule.c
src/_rrdtoolmodule.c(34) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include
file: 'rrd.h': No such file or directory
error: command '"C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio 9.0\VC\BIN
\cl.exe"' failed with exit status 2

C:\Documents and Settings\guthrie\Desktop\py-rrdtool-0.2.1>


From gherron at islandtraining.com  Fri Aug 14 16:36:20 2009
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:36:20 -0700
Subject: Splitting on '^' ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A85CAC4.2000401@islandtraining.com>

kj wrote:
> Sometimes I want to split a string into lines, preserving the
> end-of-line markers.  In Perl this is really easy to do, by splitting
> on the beginning-of-line anchor:
>
>   @lines = split /^/, $string;
>
> But I can't figure out how to do the same thing with Python.  E.g.:
>
>   
>>>> import re
>>>> re.split('^', 'spam\nham\neggs\n')
>>>>         
> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']
>   
>>>> re.split('(?m)^', 'spam\nham\neggs\n')
>>>>         
> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']
>   
>>>> bol_re = re.compile('^', re.M)
>>>> bol_re.split('spam\nham\neggs\n')
>>>>         
> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']
>
> Am I doing something wrong?
>   
Just split on the EOL character:  the "\n":
re.split('\n', 'spam\nham\neggs\n')
['spam', 'ham', 'eggs', '']

The "^" and "$" characters do not match END-OF-LINE, but rather the  
END-OF-STRING, which was doing you no good.


Gary Herron




> kynn
>   

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From tycho at tycho.ws  Fri Aug 14 16:38:49 2009
From: tycho at tycho.ws (Tycho Andersen)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:38:49 -0500
Subject: Splitting on '^' ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <49b3a7400908141338v7ef43e19y9b8b813b747dc897@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 3:23 PM, kj wrote:
> [snip]
>>>> import re
>>>> re.split('^', 'spam\nham\neggs\n')
> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']
>>>> re.split('(?m)^', 'spam\nham\neggs\n')
> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']
>>>> bol_re = re.compile('^', re.M)
>>>> bol_re.split('spam\nham\neggs\n')
> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']
>
> Am I doing something wrong?

Why not just:

>>> re.split(r'\n', 'spam\nham\neggs')

\t


From lists at cheimes.de  Fri Aug 14 16:39:56 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 22:39:56 +0200
Subject: py-rrdTool - install fails
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A85CB9C.5060305@cheimes.de>

guthrie schrieb:
> I want to do some rrd in a python cgi script, but am having trouble
> getting an easy install module.
> 
> py-rrdTool looks good, but is distributed in c source, and is missing
> a header file in the distribution. Thus the install fails when it
> tries to reference rrd.h which is not there.
> 
> Are there better rrd modules to use, or a compiled version of this, or
> other suggestions?
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> building 'rrdtool._rrdtool' extension
> C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio 9.0\VC\BIN\cl.exe /c /nologo /
> Ox /MD /W3 /GS- /DNDEBUG -I/usr/local\include "-IE:\PLang\Active Python
> \include" "-IE:\PLang\Active Python\PC" /Tcsrc/_rrdtoolmodule.c /
> Fobuild\temp.win32-2.6\Release\src/_rrdtoolmodule.obj
> _rrdtoolmodule.c
> src/_rrdtoolmodule.c(34) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include
> file: 'rrd.h': No such file or directory
> error: command '"C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio 9.0\VC\BIN
> \cl.exe"' failed with exit status 2
> 
> C:\Documents and Settings\guthrie\Desktop\py-rrdtool-0.2.1>

rrd.h is part of the rrdtools. You need to install rrdtools plus all its 
dependencies. Have a lot of fun ;)

Christian


From lists at cheimes.de  Fri Aug 14 16:39:56 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 22:39:56 +0200
Subject: py-rrdTool - install fails
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A85CB9C.5060305@cheimes.de>

guthrie schrieb:
> I want to do some rrd in a python cgi script, but am having trouble
> getting an easy install module.
> 
> py-rrdTool looks good, but is distributed in c source, and is missing
> a header file in the distribution. Thus the install fails when it
> tries to reference rrd.h which is not there.
> 
> Are there better rrd modules to use, or a compiled version of this, or
> other suggestions?
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> building 'rrdtool._rrdtool' extension
> C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio 9.0\VC\BIN\cl.exe /c /nologo /
> Ox /MD /W3 /GS- /DNDEBUG -I/usr/local\include "-IE:\PLang\Active Python
> \include" "-IE:\PLang\Active Python\PC" /Tcsrc/_rrdtoolmodule.c /
> Fobuild\temp.win32-2.6\Release\src/_rrdtoolmodule.obj
> _rrdtoolmodule.c
> src/_rrdtoolmodule.c(34) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include
> file: 'rrd.h': No such file or directory
> error: command '"C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio 9.0\VC\BIN
> \cl.exe"' failed with exit status 2
> 
> C:\Documents and Settings\guthrie\Desktop\py-rrdtool-0.2.1>

rrd.h is part of the rrdtools. You need to install rrdtools plus all its 
dependencies. Have a lot of fun ;)

Christian



From gabriel at opensuse.org  Fri Aug 14 16:41:36 2009
From: gabriel at opensuse.org (Gabriel)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 17:41:36 -0300
Subject: Splitting on '^' ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <1adde6890908141341r29644770pc8b57a83369d4546@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 5:23 PM, kj wrote:
>
>>>> import re
>>>> re.split('^', 'spam\nham\neggs\n')
> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']
>>>> re.split('(?m)^', 'spam\nham\neggs\n')
> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']
>>>> bol_re = re.compile('^', re.M)
>>>> bol_re.split('spam\nham\neggs\n')
> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']
>
> Am I doing something wrong?
>

Maybe this:

>>> import re
>>> te = 'spam\nham\neggs\n'
>>> pat = '\n'
>>> re.split(pat,te)
['spam', 'ham', 'eggs', '']

-- 
Kind Regards


From Brian.Mingus at colorado.edu  Fri Aug 14 16:43:45 2009
From: Brian.Mingus at colorado.edu (Brian)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 14:43:45 -0600
Subject: Splitting on '^' ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <9839a05c0908141343v37520d39i2833470f69528d95@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 2:23 PM, kj  wrote:

>
>
> Sometimes I want to split a string into lines, preserving the
> end-of-line markers.  In Perl this is really easy to do, by splitting
> on the beginning-of-line anchor:
>
>  @lines = split /^/, $string;
>
> But I can't figure out how to do the same thing with Python.  E.g.:
>
> >>> import re
> >>> re.split('^', 'spam\nham\neggs\n')
> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']
> >>> re.split('(?m)^', 'spam\nham\neggs\n')
> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']
> >>> bol_re = re.compile('^', re.M)
> >>> bol_re.split('spam\nham\neggs\n')
> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']
>
> Am I doing something wrong?
>
> kynn
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

You shouldn't use a regular expression for that.

>>> from time import time
>>> start=time();'spam\nham\neggs\n'.split('\n');print time()-start;
['spam', 'ham', 'eggs', '']
4.6968460083e-05
>>> import re
>>> start=time();re.split(r'\n', 'spam\nham\neggs');print time()-start;
['spam', 'ham', 'eggs']
0.000284910202026
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From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Fri Aug 14 16:44:27 2009
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 16:44:27 -0400
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in 
	string literals]
In-Reply-To: 
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Douglas Alan wrote:

>
> P.S. Overloading "left shift" to mean "output" does indeed seem a bit
> sketchy, but in 15 years of C++ programming, I've never seen it cause
> any confusion or bugs.



The only reason it hasn't is because people use it in "Hello World". I bet
some newbie C++ programmers get confused the first time they see << used to
shift.
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From abecedarian314159 at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 14 16:55:16 2009
From: abecedarian314159 at yahoo.com (William)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:55:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Komodo(!)
In-Reply-To: 
References: <-7ydndQXQODmNxjXRVn_vwA@giganews.com>
	
Message-ID: <553649.43098.qm@web110605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Personally, I rather like Wing



________________________________
From: Kee Nethery 
To: python-list at python.org
Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 3:28:54 PM
Subject: Re: Komodo(!)

>From the web site it looks like the free version does not include the debugging stuff.

I've been using the paid version with the debugger functionality and I find it easy to use and incredibly nice for trying to understand what the code is doing. The built-in debugger has saved me tons of time, especially when troubleshooting CGIs.

I'm using a Mac and of the Python IDEs I looked at, Komodo had the easiest to use user interface, in my opinion.

Kee
--http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



      
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From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Aug 14 17:00:01 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 23:00:01 +0200
Subject: callable virtual method
In-Reply-To: <4A85B9F7.4010201@ieee.org>
References: <4A85798B.6020501@sequans.com>	<4A8587A0.6040008@mrabarnett.plus.com>		<7eljaoF2fnkqgU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>	<4A85A233.9030905@sequans.com>
	<4A85A47E.308@wiggly.org> <4A85ACEF.4090901@sequans.com>
	<4A85B9F7.4010201@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <4A85D051.2080004@sequans.com>

Dave Angel wrote:
> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>> 
Nigel 
>> Rantor wrote:
>>> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Your solution will work, for sure. The problem is that it will dumb 
>>>> down the Base class interface, multiplying the number of methods by 
>>>> 2. This would not be an issue in many cases, in mine there's 
>>>> already too much meaningful methods in my class for me to add 
>>>> artificial ones.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the tip anyway.
>>>
>>> I suggest you reconsider.
>>>
>>> You asked a question and have been given a standard way of achieving 
>>> the desired outcome.
>>>
>>> It's common in OO to use a Template pattern like this.
>>>
>>> If you're not interested in finding out how loads of people have 
>>> already solved the problem then why ask?
>>>
>>> The methods that require overriding can be prefixed with an 
>>> underscore so that people get a hint that they are an implementation 
>>> detail rather than part of the public interface.
>>>
>>> I don't see your problem, other than a vague aesthetic unease.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>>   n
>> I understand how refuting some obvious solution may look just stupid. 
>> You're right, I shouldn't have asked.
>>
>> By the way I'd like to know if I am I alone to find that
>>
>> class Stream:
>>    def start
>>    def stop
>>    def reset
>>
>> is better than
>>
>> class Stream:
>>    def start
>>    def _start
>>    def stop
>>    def _stop
>>    def reset
>>    def _reset
>>
>> (try to figure out with 20+ methods)
>> What you call aesthetic may sometimes fall into readability.
>>
>>
>> JM
>>
>>
>> 

>>
> Usually when one defines an abstract base class, one expects many 
> people will derive from it, as opposed to only one having to write 
> it.  So if the base must be "ugly" according to some definition, so be 
> it.  Aesthetics are quite subjective.
>
> Nigel's approach has another benefit not stated, which is to keep the 
> child class code simpler.  They avoid the need to call any base class 
> method to access the common logic.  The downside is it assumes that 
> the common logic will always be either at the beginning or always at 
> the end of the child classes implementation.  That's because the base 
> class has hardcoded where in its implementation to call the child 
> class method.
>
I think this is a severe issue.
You prevent the sub class from writing
def foo(self):
    pre()
    Base.foo(self)
    post()
> Anyway, without arguing for or against either approach, I'd point out 
> that you could have an extra formal parameter in the base method, 
> which is a private signal from the child class that this is the 
> internal call.  Missing such a formal parameter would then trigger the 
> "missing method in derived class" error message.  You'd check such a 
> parameter the same place as you're now checking the object's type.
>
> DaveA
>
>


talking about approaches:

1/
class Interface:
    def foo(self):
       if self.__class__.foo == Interface.foo:
          raise NotImplementedError

2/
class Interface:
    def foo(self):
       self._foo()

    def _foo(sef):
       raise NotImplementedError

Are they so different ? They both require about the same amount of extra 
characters, they're both readable. The second is a very classic OO 
layout, the first is more flexible for the sub classes and spare some 
method definition.

This thread may live again, I cannot say but I'd like to thanks all who 
gave me their valuable idea on the subject, I mean it. Please don't take 
my skepticism as a lack of consideration.

JM




From lists at sourceillustrated.com  Fri Aug 14 17:04:17 2009
From: lists at sourceillustrated.com (John Wells)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 17:04:17 -0400
Subject: Komodo(!)
In-Reply-To: 
References: <-7ydndQXQODmNxjXRVn_vwA@giganews.com>
	
Message-ID: <44dddf400908141404v2ec276bepd6399d3672ed7f49@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 3:28 PM, Kee Nethery wrote:
> From the web site it looks like the free version does not include the
> debugging stuff.
>
> I've been using the paid version with the debugger functionality and I find
> it easy to use and incredibly nice for trying to understand what the code is
> doing. The built-in debugger has saved me tons of time, especially when
> troubleshooting CGIs.
>
> I'm using a Mac and of the Python IDEs I looked at, Komodo had the easiest
> to use user interface, in my opinion.

I've been using Netbeans with Python support and have enjoyed it. Have
you tried it? It has integrated debugging, etc as well, and the price
(free) is right. I'm curious how it compares to Komodo....

Thanks,
John


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Fri Aug 14 17:20:06 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 14:20:06 -0700
Subject: Splitting on '^' ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A85D506.7060104@stoneleaf.us>

kj wrote:
> 
> Sometimes I want to split a string into lines, preserving the
> end-of-line markers.  In Perl this is really easy to do, by splitting
> on the beginning-of-line anchor:
> 
>   @lines = split /^/, $string;
> 
> But I can't figure out how to do the same thing with Python.  E.g.:
> 
> 
>>>>import re
>>>>re.split('^', 'spam\nham\neggs\n')
> 
> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']
> 
>>>>re.split('(?m)^', 'spam\nham\neggs\n')
> 
> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']
> 
>>>>bol_re = re.compile('^', re.M)
>>>>bol_re.split('spam\nham\neggs\n')
> 
> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']
> 
> Am I doing something wrong?
> 
> kynn

As you probably noticed from the other responses:  No, you can't split 
on _and_ keep the splitby text.

Looks like you'll have to roll your own.

def splitat(text, sep):
     result = [line + sep for line in text.split(sep)]
     if result[-1] == sep:  # either remove extra element
        result.pop()
     else:                   # or extra sep from last element
         result[-1] = result[-1][:-len(sep)]
     return result


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Aug 14 17:22:05 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 22:22:05 +0100
Subject: Splitting on '^' ?
In-Reply-To: <4A85CAC4.2000401@islandtraining.com>
References: 
	<4A85CAC4.2000401@islandtraining.com>
Message-ID: <4A85D57D.40602@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Gary Herron wrote:
> kj wrote:
>> Sometimes I want to split a string into lines, preserving the
>> end-of-line markers.  In Perl this is really easy to do, by splitting
>> on the beginning-of-line anchor:
>>
>>   @lines = split /^/, $string;
>>
>> But I can't figure out how to do the same thing with Python.  E.g.:
>>
>>   
>>>>> import re
>>>>> re.split('^', 'spam\nham\neggs\n')
>>>>>         
>> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']
>>   
>>>>> re.split('(?m)^', 'spam\nham\neggs\n')
>>>>>         
>> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']
>>   
>>>>> bol_re = re.compile('^', re.M)
>>>>> bol_re.split('spam\nham\neggs\n')
>>>>>         
>> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']
>>
>> Am I doing something wrong?
>>   
> Just split on the EOL character:  the "\n":
> re.split('\n', 'spam\nham\neggs\n')
> ['spam', 'ham', 'eggs', '']
> 
> The "^" and "$" characters do not match END-OF-LINE, but rather the  
> END-OF-STRING, which was doing you no good.
> 
With the MULTLINE flag "^" matches START-OF-LINE and "$" matches
END-OF-LINE or END-OF-STRING.

The current re module won't split on a zero-width match.


From joseph.h.garvin at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 17:22:12 2009
From: joseph.h.garvin at gmail.com (Joseph Garvin)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 16:22:12 -0500
Subject: bug?: python-config --ldflags gives incorrect output
Message-ID: 

On the latest stable ubuntu:

$ python-config --ldflags
-L/usr/lib/python2.6/config -lpthread -ldl -lutil -lm -lpython2.6

In case the user is statically linking, I believe the -lpython2.6
should go before the other -l's. Also, -lz is missing so whenever you
try to link against python you get tons of errors about missing PyZlib
references. Am I right in thinking these are bugs?


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Fri Aug 14 17:30:45 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 23:30:45 +0200
Subject: something like perl's Mail::GPG ?
References: <4365602b-e174-4419-a1f7-44dde1b66b0c@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

>>>>> akonsu  (a) wrote:

>a> hello,
>a> i am looking for a module with functionality similar to that of the
>a> Perl's Mail::GPG package. I need to verify multipart emails that are
>a> PGP-signed.

I don't know Perl's GPG package, but to verify PGP-signed stuff you can
use gnupg. It doesn't have special code for mail messages, however. It
is just a Pythonic wrapper facade around the gpg program.

However, it doesn't do the PGP/MIME stuff, so you will have to transform
the MIME messages into something that GPG understands. This isn't hard
and you can find a short python script that does it on
http://domnit.org/2008/03/clearmime. It describes how you can use it as
a program and pipe the message through it into gpg --verify. You can
also use it as a module if you rename it to clearmime.py, and use it
with the recently released gnupg module. It is released under GPL.
However it wouldn't be hard to write something similar yourself, for
example if you want to feed it existing Message objects rather than strings.
Example:

import os
from gnupg import GPG
from clearmime import clarify

msgtxt = open('testgpg.msg').read()
cl = clarify(msgtxt)
gpg=GPG(gnupghome = os.path.join(os.environ['HOME'], '.gnupg'))

if gpg.verify(cl):
    print "Signature correct"
else:
    print "Signature incorrect"

-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From asmodai at in-nomine.org  Fri Aug 14 17:41:50 2009
From: asmodai at in-nomine.org (Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 23:41:50 +0200
Subject: Natural Language Processing in Python
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <20090814214150.GM30241@nexus.in-nomine.org>

-On [20090814 18:39], Prateek (prateekkakirwar at gmail.com) wrote:
>Can somebody please provide me link to a good online resource or e-
>book for doing natural language processing programming in Python.

http://www.nltk.org/ comes to mind.

-- 
Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven  / asmodai
????? ?????? ??? ?? ??????
http://www.in-nomine.org/ | http://www.rangaku.org/ | GPG: 2EAC625B
Death comes for us all, we can only choose how to face it when it comes.


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Fri Aug 14 17:48:43 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 23:48:43 +0200
Subject: Splitting on '^' ?
References: 
Message-ID: 

>>>>> kj  (k) wrote:

>k> Sometimes I want to split a string into lines, preserving the
>k> end-of-line markers.  In Perl this is really easy to do, by splitting
>k> on the beginning-of-line anchor:

>k>   @lines = split /^/, $string;

>k> But I can't figure out how to do the same thing with Python.  E.g.:

>>>>> import re
>>>>> re.split('^', 'spam\nham\neggs\n')
>k> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']
>>>>> re.split('(?m)^', 'spam\nham\neggs\n')
>k> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']
>>>>> bol_re = re.compile('^', re.M)
>>>>> bol_re.split('spam\nham\neggs\n')
>k> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']

>k> Am I doing something wrong?

It says that in the doc of 're':
Note that split will never split a string on an empty pattern match. For
example: 
>>> re.split('x*', 'foo')
['foo']
>>> re.split("(?m)^$", "foo\n\nbar\n")
['foo\n\nbar\n']
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From rurpy at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 14 18:01:29 2009
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:01:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Splitting on '^' ?
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 14, 2:23?pm, kj  wrote:
> Sometimes I want to split a string into lines, preserving the
> end-of-line markers. ?In Perl this is really easy to do, by splitting
> on the beginning-of-line anchor:
>
> ? @lines = split /^/, $string;
>
> But I can't figure out how to do the same thing with Python. ?E.g.:

Why not this?

>>> lines = 'spam\nham\neggs\n'.splitlines (True)
>>> lines
['spam\n', 'ham\n', 'eggs\n']


From pinkisntwell at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 18:24:26 2009
From: pinkisntwell at gmail.com (pinkisntwell)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:24:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Calling parent constructor with different argument list
Message-ID: <174a97e2-5ef4-47dc-9a60-ad7598f276cb@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

class Vertex(tuple):
    pass

class Positioned_Vertex(Vertex):

    def __init__(self, a, b):
        Vertex.__init__(a)

a=Positioned_Vertex((0,0,0), 1)

This gives:

TypeError: tuple() takes at most 1 argument (2 given)

It looks like the explicit call to Vertex.__init__ is never made and
Vertex.__init__ is implicitly called when a Positioned_Vertex is
created. Is there a way to work around this and call the constructor
with the intended argument list?


From lists at cheimes.de  Fri Aug 14 18:25:00 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 00:25:00 +0200
Subject: callable virtual method
In-Reply-To: <4A85D051.2080004@sequans.com>
References: <4A85798B.6020501@sequans.com>	<4A8587A0.6040008@mrabarnett.plus.com>		<7eljaoF2fnkqgU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>	<4A85A233.9030905@sequans.com>	<4A85A47E.308@wiggly.org>
	<4A85ACEF.4090901@sequans.com>	<4A85B9F7.4010201@ieee.org>
	<4A85D051.2080004@sequans.com>
Message-ID: 

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> talking about approaches:
> 
> 1/
> class Interface:
>     def foo(self):
>        if self.__class__.foo == Interface.foo:
>           raise NotImplementedError
> 
> 2/
> class Interface:
>     def foo(self):
>        self._foo()
> 
>     def _foo(sef):
>        raise NotImplementedError

Please don't call it an interface when it's really an abstract base 
class. And abstract base classes are probably the solution the OP is 
looking for, http://docs.python.org/library/abc.html

Christian



From davigier at googlemail.com  Fri Aug 14 18:27:40 2009
From: davigier at googlemail.com (David)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:27:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to launch a function at regular time intervals ?
References: 
	
	 
	
	<6ebb8c71-870c-4233-a256-a4061a1ab530@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
	<18ac9f9a-0cf2-409c-82b3-ea068f21dbf7@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

With your help, Franck, I think I finally got it to work. This is how
I did it:

# In the main program, launch the 2 threads CStoreData and
CTransferData, which will run indefinitely until they are stopped (if
the threads were launched inside the while loop, there would be an
infinitely growing number of threads CStoreData all doing the same
thing, same for CTransferData)

func_store_data = CStoreData()
func_store_data.start()

func_transfer_data = CTransferData()
func_transfer_data.start()

# While loop, just to keep the threads running until they are stopped
at the end of the program. If there wasn't a while loop, the threads
would be stopped right after they are launched. The while loop
separates the "start" of the threads from the "stop" of the threads

while 1
  if end_condition:  # terminate program
            break  # break out of while loop

# Stop all running threads at end

func_store_data.stop()
func_store_data.join()

func_transfer_data.stop()
func_transfer_data.join()


Again thanks a lot to all of you for your precious help.

David


From davigier at googlemail.com  Fri Aug 14 18:27:55 2009
From: davigier at googlemail.com (David)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:27:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to launch a function at regular time intervals ?
References: 
	
	 
	
	<6ebb8c71-870c-4233-a256-a4061a1ab530@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
	<18ac9f9a-0cf2-409c-82b3-ea068f21dbf7@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <7e7f762d-6727-4756-9e5e-72b894f9a9fb@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

With your help, Franck, I think I finally got it to work. This is how
I did it:

# In the main program, launch the 2 threads CStoreData and
CTransferData, which will run indefinitely until they are stopped (if
the threads were launched inside the while loop, there would be an
infinitely growing number of threads CStoreData all doing the same
thing, same for CTransferData)

func_store_data = CStoreData()
func_store_data.start()

func_transfer_data = CTransferData()
func_transfer_data.start()

# While loop, just to keep the threads running until they are stopped
at the end of the program. If there wasn't a while loop, the threads
would be stopped right after they are launched. The while loop
separates the "start" of the threads from the "stop" of the threads

while 1
  if end_condition:  # terminate program
            break  # break out of while loop

# Stop all running threads at end

func_store_data.stop()
func_store_data.join()

func_transfer_data.stop()
func_transfer_data.join()


Again thanks a lot to all of you for your precious help.

David


From davigier at googlemail.com  Fri Aug 14 18:28:06 2009
From: davigier at googlemail.com (David)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:28:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to launch a function at regular time intervals ?
References: 
	
	 
	
	<6ebb8c71-870c-4233-a256-a4061a1ab530@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
	<18ac9f9a-0cf2-409c-82b3-ea068f21dbf7@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <97ddbf4b-0a80-4ef3-88e6-73b02208ef13@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

With your help, Franck, I think I finally got it to work. This is how
I did it:

# In the main program, launch the 2 threads CStoreData and
CTransferData, which will run indefinitely until they are stopped (if
the threads were launched inside the while loop, there would be an
infinitely growing number of threads CStoreData all doing the same
thing, same for CTransferData)

func_store_data = CStoreData()
func_store_data.start()

func_transfer_data = CTransferData()
func_transfer_data.start()

# While loop, just to keep the threads running until they are stopped
at the end of the program. If there wasn't a while loop, the threads
would be stopped right after they are launched. The while loop
separates the "start" of the threads from the "stop" of the threads

while 1
  if end_condition:  # terminate program
            break  # break out of while loop

# Stop all running threads at end

func_store_data.stop()
func_store_data.join()

func_transfer_data.stop()
func_transfer_data.join()


Again thanks a lot to all of you for your precious help.

David


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Aug 14 18:30:52 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 23:30:52 +0100
Subject: Splitting on '^' ?
In-Reply-To: <4A85D506.7060104@stoneleaf.us>
References:  <4A85D506.7060104@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <4A85E59C.6020001@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Ethan Furman wrote:
> kj wrote:
>>
>> Sometimes I want to split a string into lines, preserving the
>> end-of-line markers.  In Perl this is really easy to do, by splitting
>> on the beginning-of-line anchor:
>>
>>   @lines = split /^/, $string;
>>
>> But I can't figure out how to do the same thing with Python.  E.g.:
>>
>>
>>>>> import re
>>>>> re.split('^', 'spam\nham\neggs\n')
>>
>> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']
>>
>>>>> re.split('(?m)^', 'spam\nham\neggs\n')
>>
>> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']
>>
>>>>> bol_re = re.compile('^', re.M)
>>>>> bol_re.split('spam\nham\neggs\n')
>>
>> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']
>>
>> Am I doing something wrong?
>>
>> kynn
> 
> As you probably noticed from the other responses:  No, you can't split 
> on _and_ keep the splitby text.
> 
You _can_ split and keep what you split on:

 >>> re.split("(x)", "abxcd")
['ab', 'x', 'cd']

You _can't_ split on a zero-width match:

 >>> re.split("(x*)", "abxcd")
['ab', 'x', 'cd']

but you can use re.sub to replace zero-width matches with something
that's not zero-width and then split on that (best with str.split):

 >>> re.sub("(x*)", "@", "abxcd")
'@a at b@c at d@'
 >>> re.sub("(x*)", "@", "abxcd").split("@")
['', 'a', 'b', 'c', 'd', '']


From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Aug 14 18:40:56 2009
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 00:40:56 +0200
Subject: coding for multiple versions of python
In-Reply-To: 
References:  <4A84F913.9090901@v.loewis.de>
	
Message-ID: <4a85e7f8$0$2427$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

>> Specifically, put the source code into /net/source/python/foo/*.py.
>> Then, on each system, put symlinks to all .py files into
>> lib/site-packages/foo. Then Python will place the .pyc files next
>> to the symlinks, not next to the actual .py files.
> 
> Why would he need two sets of .py files?

As Dave explains:
So that the Python 2.4 installation on HP can write its own .pyc
files on disk next to the source files, and Python 2.6 can write
its .pyc files next to the sources on Linux.

Regards,
Martin


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Aug 14 18:40:59 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 23:40:59 +0100
Subject: How to launch a function at regular time intervals ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 		
		<6ebb8c71-870c-4233-a256-a4061a1ab530@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>		<18ac9f9a-0cf2-409c-82b3-ea068f21dbf7@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>	
	
Message-ID: <4A85E7FB.4040507@mrabarnett.plus.com>

David wrote:
> With your help, Franck, I think I finally got it to work. This is how
> I did it:
> 
> # In the main program, launch the 2 threads CStoreData and
> CTransferData, which will run indefinitely until they are stopped (if
> the threads were launched inside the while loop, there would be an
> infinitely growing number of threads CStoreData all doing the same
> thing, same for CTransferData)
> 
> func_store_data = CStoreData()
> func_store_data.start()
> 
> func_transfer_data = CTransferData()
> func_transfer_data.start()
> 
> # While loop, just to keep the threads running until they are stopped
> at the end of the program. If there wasn't a while loop, the threads
> would be stopped right after they are launched. The while loop
> separates the "start" of the threads from the "stop" of the threads
> 
> while 1
>   if end_condition:  # terminate program
>             break  # break out of while loop
> 
You might want to insert a sleep or something in there, otherwise you'll
be it'll consume a lot of CPU time doing nothing (a 'busy wait').

> # Stop all running threads at end
> 
> func_store_data.stop()
> func_store_data.join()
> 
> func_transfer_data.stop()
> func_transfer_data.join()
> 
> 
> Again thanks a lot to all of you for your precious help.
> 



From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Aug 14 18:42:54 2009
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 00:42:54 +0200
Subject: coding for multiple versions of python
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<4A84F913.9090901@v.loewis.de>	
	
Message-ID: <4A85E86E.6070805@v.loewis.de>


> He's assuming:
>    1) an OS that supports symlinks
>    2) two versions of Python on same system
>    3) one set of pure-python sources that want to stay in synch for both
> versions.

Actually, the OP said he has HP(-UX, I assume), and Linux, so it would
be two versions of Python on different systems - I also assume that he
has an NFS server that both can mount (or that one machine can NFS mount
the other).

Regards,
Martin


From REMOVEmagicus23THIS at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 18:46:46 2009
From: REMOVEmagicus23THIS at gmail.com (magicus)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 22:46:46 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: A Exhibition Of Tech Geekers Incompetence: Emacs whitespace-mode
References: <61ef4451-d6b6-493b-b4a0-1822a901ca8d@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 19:57:17 +0200, Jean-Michel Pichavant
 wrote:

> vippstar wrote:
>> On Aug 14, 8:25 pm, fortunatus  wrote:
>>   
>>> On Aug 14, 1:01 pm, vippstar  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Why would you fill your website with junk?
>>>>       
>>> The OP made it clear:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Just wanted to express some frustration with whitespace-mode.
>>>>       
>>>>       
>> You took my question out of context and answered it. I read the
>> article, it's not like I missed any of it. Plus, it's not a real
>> answer. "Because I wanted to". Why did you? Why would you?
>>   
> FYI, Xah Lee is a well known BTFL (Benevolent Troller For Life), you
> shouldn't argue about one of his post.

Argue??? He is kill filed here wherever I find him.

Life is too short to deal w/ idiots.

ciao,
f

-- 
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever 
conceived."
-- Isaac Asimov



From Brian.Mingus at colorado.edu  Fri Aug 14 18:57:13 2009
From: Brian.Mingus at colorado.edu (Brian)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 16:57:13 -0600
Subject: A Exhibition Of Tech Geekers Incompetence: Emacs whitespace-mode
In-Reply-To: 
References: <61ef4451-d6b6-493b-b4a0-1822a901ca8d@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	 
	 
	 
	
	
Message-ID: <9839a05c0908141557s4008e896nc5ddece003469596@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 4:46 PM, magicus wrote:

> On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 19:57:17 +0200, Jean-Michel Pichavant
>  wrote:
>
> > vippstar wrote:
> >> On Aug 14, 8:25 pm, fortunatus  wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Aug 14, 1:01 pm, vippstar  wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Why would you fill your website with junk?
> >>>>
> >>> The OP made it clear:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Just wanted to express some frustration with whitespace-mode.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >> You took my question out of context and answered it. I read the
> >> article, it's not like I missed any of it. Plus, it's not a real
> >> answer. "Because I wanted to". Why did you? Why would you?
> >>
> > FYI, Xah Lee is a well known BTFL (Benevolent Troller For Life), you
> > shouldn't argue about one of his post.
>
> Argue??? He is kill filed here wherever I find him.
>
> Life is too short to deal w/ idiots.
>
> ciao,
> f
>

The funny thing about his rant (ie - that it is irrelevant) is that emacs
python mode has always notified me that my indentations were inconsistent by
highlighting the errant ones in blue.
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From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Fri Aug 14 19:13:56 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 16:13:56 -0700
Subject: Splitting on '^' ?
In-Reply-To: <4A85E59C.6020001@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References:  <4A85D506.7060104@stoneleaf.us>
	<4A85E59C.6020001@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <4A85EFB4.3020008@stoneleaf.us>

MRAB wrote:
> Ethan Furman wrote:
> 
>> kj wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Sometimes I want to split a string into lines, preserving the
>>> end-of-line markers.  In Perl this is really easy to do, by splitting
>>> on the beginning-of-line anchor:
>>>
>>>   @lines = split /^/, $string;
>>>
>>> But I can't figure out how to do the same thing with Python.  E.g.:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> import re
>>>>>> re.split('^', 'spam\nham\neggs\n')
>>>
>>>
>>> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']
>>>
>>>>>> re.split('(?m)^', 'spam\nham\neggs\n')
>>>
>>>
>>> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']
>>>
>>>>>> bol_re = re.compile('^', re.M)
>>>>>> bol_re.split('spam\nham\neggs\n')
>>>
>>>
>>> ['spam\nham\neggs\n']
>>>
>>> Am I doing something wrong?
>>>
>>> kynn
>>
>>
>> As you probably noticed from the other responses:  No, you can't split 
>> on _and_ keep the splitby text.
>>
> You _can_ split and keep what you split on:
> 
>  >>> re.split("(x)", "abxcd")
> ['ab', 'x', 'cd']
> 
> You _can't_ split on a zero-width match:
> 
>  >>> re.split("(x*)", "abxcd")
> ['ab', 'x', 'cd']
> 
> but you can use re.sub to replace zero-width matches with something
> that's not zero-width and then split on that (best with str.split):
> 
>  >>> re.sub("(x*)", "@", "abxcd")
> '@a at b@c at d@'
>  >>> re.sub("(x*)", "@", "abxcd").split("@")
> ['', 'a', 'b', 'c', 'd', '']

Wow!  I stand corrected, although I'm in danger of falling over from the 
dizziness!  :)

As impressive as that is, I don't think it does what the OP is looking 
for.  rurpy reminded us (or at least me ;) of .splitlines(), which seems 
to do exactly what the OP is looking for.  I do take some comfort that 
my little snippet works for more than newlines alone, although I'm not 
aware of any other use-cases.  :(

~Ethan~

Oh, hey, how about this?

re.compile('(^[^\n]*\n?)', re.M).findall('text\ntext\ntext)

Although this does give me an extra blank segment at the end... oh well.


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Aug 14 19:19:40 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 00:19:40 +0100
Subject: Calling parent constructor with different argument list
In-Reply-To: <174a97e2-5ef4-47dc-9a60-ad7598f276cb@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: <174a97e2-5ef4-47dc-9a60-ad7598f276cb@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

pinkisntwell wrote:
> class Vertex(tuple):
>     pass
> 
> class Positioned_Vertex(Vertex):
> 
>     def __init__(self, a, b):
def __init__(self, a): # just take out b
>         Vertex.__init__(a)
> 
> a=Positioned_Vertex((0,0,0), 1)
a=Positioned_Vertex( ( (0,0,0), 1) ) # and add a pair of brackets
print a
> 
> This gives:
> 
> TypeError: tuple() takes at most 1 argument (2 given)
> 
> It looks like the explicit call to Vertex.__init__ is never made and
> Vertex.__init__ is implicitly called when a Positioned_Vertex is
> created. Is there a way to work around this and call the constructor
> with the intended argument list?
Simplest way to get it to work is above using Python 2.6.2 on Windows. 
I'm sure there are variations depending on your use case, but I'll leave 
that to the experts.

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From arphaksad at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 20:05:40 2009
From: arphaksad at gmail.com (naaman)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 17:05:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: fileinput
References: 
	
	<521d7322-b8ee-490e-8cde-7e854e8afb7a@r34g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <4a237015-1b6d-418c-9bce-2f8e144e50d1@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 13, 11:41?pm, naaman  wrote:
> On Aug 13, 7:50?am, Dave Angel  wrote:
>
>
>
> > naaman wrote:
> > > On Aug 12, 1:35 pm, Dave Angel  wrote:
>
> > >> naaman wrote:
>
> > >>> I'm writing my first Python script and
> > >>> I want to use fileinput to open a file in r+ mode.
> > >>> Tried fileinput.input(sys.argv[1:],"r+") but that didn't work.
> > >>> ANy ideas?
>
> > >>> Need to find and overwrite a line in a file several times.
> > >>> I can do it using open and seek() etc. but was wondering if I can use
> > >>> fileinput.
>
> > >>> thanks;
>
> > >> I haven't used it, but check out the 'inplace' keyword parameter.
>
> > >> DaveA
>
> > > I've only Python for a week so I'm not sure what inplace does
>
> > You should read the docs for it
> > ? ? (http://www.python.org/doc/2.6.2/library/fileinput.html?),
> > but it's not very clear to me either ?So I dug up an example on the web:
> > ? ? ?(ref: ?http://effbot.org/librarybook/fileinput.htm)
>
> > import fileinput, sys
>
> > for line in fileinput.input(inplace=1):
> > ? ? # /convert Windows/DOS text files to Unix files/
> > ? ? if line[-2:] == "\r\n":
> > ? ? ? ? line = line[:-2] + "\n"
> > ? ? sys.stdout.write(line)
>
> > The inplace argument tells it to create a new file with the same name as
> > the original (doing all the necessary nonsense with using a scratch
> > file, and renaming/deleting) for each file processed. ?Stdout is pointed
> > to that new version of the file. ?Notice that you have to explicitly
> > write everything you want to wind up in the file -- if a given line is
> > to remain unchanged, you just write "line" directly.
>
> > If you're new to Python, I do not recommend trying to do open/seek to
> > update a text file in place, especially if you're in DOS. ?There are
> > lots of traps. ?the inplace method of fileinput avoids these by
> > implicitly creating temp files and handling the details for you, which
> > probably works great if you're dealing with text, in order.
>
> > DaveA
>
> here's the solution
>
> import fileinput, sys
>
> for line in fileinput.input(sys.argv[1],inplace=1):
> ? ? if (line[:-1]==r'drew'):
> ? ? ? ? line=line.replace(line,"fancy dog")
> ? ? sys.stdout.write(line)
>
> I want to replace drew in my input file with fancy dog.
> Tested with this input file
> angel
> heaven
> flying monkees
> lazy dogs
> drew
> blue sky
> veritas
>
> and got this
> angel
> heaven
> flying monkees
> lazy dogs
> fancy dog
> blue sky
> veritas
>
> So drew was replaced with fancy dog.
> Thanks to your inputs I got this solved. :-))

oops there should be a +"\n" after "fancy dog"
 line=line.replace(line,"fancy dog"+"\n")


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Fri Aug 14 20:15:52 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 21:15:52 -0300
Subject: Calling parent constructor with different argument list
References: <174a97e2-5ef4-47dc-9a60-ad7598f276cb@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

En Fri, 14 Aug 2009 19:24:26 -0300, pinkisntwell   
escribi?:

> class Vertex(tuple):
>     pass
>
> class Positioned_Vertex(Vertex):
>
>     def __init__(self, a, b):
>         Vertex.__init__(a)
>
> a=Positioned_Vertex((0,0,0), 1)
>
> This gives:
>
> TypeError: tuple() takes at most 1 argument (2 given)
>
> It looks like the explicit call to Vertex.__init__ is never made and
> Vertex.__init__ is implicitly called when a Positioned_Vertex is
> created. Is there a way to work around this and call the constructor
> with the intended argument list?

The tuple constructor (like numbers, strings, and other immutable objects)  
never calls __init__. You have to override __new__ instead:

py> class Point3D(tuple):
...   def __new__(cls, x, y, z):
...     obj = super(Point3D, cls).__new__(cls, (x,y,z))
...     return obj
...
py> a = Point3D(10, 20, 30)
py> a
(10, 20, 30)
py> type(a)


See http://docs.python.org/reference/datamodel.html#basic-customization

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From candide at free.invalid  Fri Aug 14 20:22:57 2009
From: candide at free.invalid (candide)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 02:22:57 +0200
Subject: Splitting a string into substrings of equal size
Message-ID: <4a85ffe2$0$24643$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

Suppose you need to split a string into substrings of a given size (except
possibly the last substring). I make the hypothesis the first slice is at the
end of the string.
A typical example is provided by formatting a decimal string with thousands
separator.


What is the pythonic way to do this ?


For my part, i reach to this rather complicated code:


# ----------------------

def comaSep(z,k=3, sep=','):
    z=z[::-1]
    x=[z[k*i:k*(i+1)][::-1] for i in range(1+(len(z)-1)/k)][::-1]
    return sep.join(x)

# Test
for z in ["75096042068045", "509", "12024", "7", "2009"]:
    print z+" --> ", comaSep(z)

# ----------------------

outputting :

75096042068045 -->  75,096,042,068,045
509 -->  509
12024 -->  12,024
7 -->  7
2009 -->  2,009


Thanks


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Fri Aug 14 21:00:52 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 22:00:52 -0300
Subject: Splitting a string into substrings of equal size
References: <4a85ffe2$0$24643$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: 

En Fri, 14 Aug 2009 21:22:57 -0300, candide   
escribi?:

> Suppose you need to split a string into substrings of a given size  
> (except
> possibly the last substring). I make the hypothesis the first slice is  
> at the
> end of the string.
> A typical example is provided by formatting a decimal string with  
> thousands
> separator.
>
>
> What is the pythonic way to do this ?

py> import locale
py> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, '')
'Spanish_Argentina.1252'
py> locale.format("%d", 75096042068045, True)
'75.096.042.068.045'

:)

> For my part, i reach to this rather complicated code:

Mine isn't very simple either:

py> def genparts(z):
...   n = len(z)
...   i = n%3
...   if i: yield z[:i]
...   for i in xrange(i, n, 3):
...     yield z[i:i+3]
...
py> ','.join(genparts("75096042068045"))
'75,096,042,068,045'

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From pfeldman at verizon.net  Fri Aug 14 21:25:45 2009
From: pfeldman at verizon.net (Dr. Phillip M. Feldman)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:25:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
Message-ID: <24980842.post@talk.nabble.com>


I wrote the following correct but inefficient test of primality for purposes
of demonstrating that the simplest algorithm is often not the most
efficient.  But, when I try to run the following code with a value of n that
is large enough to produce a significant amount of running time, I get an
out-of-memory error!

def is_prime(n):
   for j in range(2,n):
      if (n % j) == 0: return False
   return True

It seems as though Python is actually expanding range(2,n) into a list of
numbers, even though this is incredibly wasteful of memory. There should be
a looping mechanism that generates the index variable values incrementally
as they are needed.
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Python-%27for%27-loop-is-memory-inefficient-tp24980842p24980842.html
Sent from the Python - python-list mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Fri Aug 14 21:30:39 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:30:39 -0700
Subject: implementing descriptors
In-Reply-To: <85502415-f861-43ab-8827-4184952d8bea@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
References: <39aff5a5-97ec-41f7-ab26-6e4d842b9c5c@r33g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>	
	
	
	<85502415-f861-43ab-8827-4184952d8bea@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A860FBF.6070709@stoneleaf.us>

dippim wrote:
> On Aug 14, 10:48 am, Dave Angel  wrote:
> 
>>dippim wrote:
>>
>>>On Aug 14, 2:34 am, Raymond Hettinger  wrote:
>>
>>>>[David]
>>
>>>>>I am new to Python and I have a question about descriptors.  If I have
>>>>>a class as written below, is there a way to use descriptors to be
>>>>>certain that the datetime in start is always before the one in end?
>>
>>>>>class foo(object):
>>>>>   def __init__(self,a =one,b = None)
>>>>>      self.start =
>>>>>      self.end =
>>
>>>>>from datetime import datetime
>>>>>c =atetime(2009,8,13,6,15,0)
>>>>>d =atetime(2009,8,14,12,0,0)
>>>>>afoo =oo(c,d)
>>
>>>>>For instance, if the following code were run, I would like to instance
>>>>>of foo to switch the start and end times.
>>
>>>>>afoo.start =atetime(2010,8,13,6,15,0)
>>
>>>>>I was thinking of using the __set__ descriptor to catch the assignment
>>>>>and reverse the values if necessary, but I can't figure out how to
>>>>>determine which values is being set.
>>
>>>>You're on the right track, but it is easier to use property() than to
>>>>write your own custom descriptor with __get__ and __set__.
>>
>>>>class foo(object):
>>>>    def __init__(self,a =one,b = None):
>>>>        self._start =
>>>>        self._end =
>>>>    def get_start(self):
>>>>        return self._start
>>>>    def set_start(self, value):
>>>>        if self._end is None or value < self._end:
>>>>            self._start =alue
>>>>        else:
>>>>            self._end =alue
>>>>    start =roperty(get_start, set_start)
>>>>    def get_end(self):
>>>>        return self._end
>>>>    def set_end(self, value):
>>>>        if self._start is None or value > self._start:
>>>>            self._end =alue
>>>>        else:
>>>>            self._start =alue
>>>>    end =roperty(get_end, set_end)
>>
>>>>Raymond
>>
>>>Raymond,
>>>   This functionality is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!  I'll
>>>be using this to solve my problem.
>>
>>>   Now that I'm on the right track, I'm still a bit confused about how
>>>__get__ and __set__ are useful.  Admittedly, I don't need to
>>>understand them to solve this problem, but perhaps they may be useful
>>>in the future.  If I wanted to solve this problem using __get__ and
>>>__set__ could it be done?
>>
>>>Thanks Again!
>>
>>DANGER- WILL ROBINSON!
>>
>>Don't use this code as-is.  There is a nasty surprise waiting for the
>>caller when he sets start and end, and discovers that one of them gets
>>thrown out, and an old value still remains.
>>
>>obj= foo(3, 5)
>>obj.start = 8
>>obj.end = 12
>>print obj.start, obj.end
>>
>>will print out  3, 12.    Not what the caller expected.
> 
> 
> You're right about this and I appreciate the warning, but I think what
> Raymond was going for was directional accuracy without a great deal of
> his time wasted on details.  The explanation served the purpose of
> moving me forward using property() and I'm thankful for it.
> 
> 
>>Four fixes, in order of preference:
>>0) Trust your user to read and obey your docstrings.  This was what JM
>>was implying, by changing the names of the formal parameters.
> 
> 
> Considering I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer, I don't wish to
> start a philosophical discussion about the relative aptitude and
> capabilities of the people who might use a class I build.  However, I
> will say that as this particular requirement is imposed on this class
> by the writer, shouldn't it be the writer's responsibility to enforce
> it, especially, when the cost of enforcement is so low?
> 
> 
>>1)  make a new method that sets both values, making these two properties
>>readonly.  That new method would make sure the two parameters are
>>self-consistent.  Making the actual values readonly can be done with a
>>descriptor as well, or even a decorator.
> 
> 
>>2) Raise an exception in the getter methods if they're out of order
>>3) do the min/max logic on the getter methods, but I don't like that one
>>at all.
>>
>>DaveA
> 

I am in complete agreement with DaveA on this issue -- if you want the 
invariant, then have a routine that set's both at once.

The head-aches it would cause me, at least, to have to gyrate around 
whether I was making the object later or earlier in time (having to swap 
the order I assign stand and end, assuming I even know whether I'm going 
forward or backward without further checking... argh!) would quite 
possibly cause me to choose some other routine instead.

How about something like (untested):
     def set(self, start=None, end=None):
         if start is None:
             start = self.start
         if end is None:
             end = self.end
         if start > end:
             raise ValueError('blah blah')
         self.start = start
         self.end = end

This way you could still set only one, but have bounds checking in place.

~Ethan~


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 21:30:43 2009
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:30:43 -0700
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
In-Reply-To: <24980842.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <24980842.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c20908141830i5c72e0c1i66343c0e9017f0ca@mail.gmail.com>

>
> It seems as though Python is actually expanding range(2,n) into a list of
> numbers, even though this is incredibly wasteful of memory. There should be
> a looping mechanism that generates the index variable values incrementally
> as they are needed.


This has nothing to do with Python's for loop (and saying the loop construct
itself is memory inefficient makes me blink in confusion): but you've
isolated the problem precisely all on your own. range() is defined as
returning a list. Thus, it constructs the list all at once.

xrange() returns an iterator, and generates the values on the fly.

In Python 3, this was changed so range returns an iterator, and to get a
list you do list(range(2,n)).

--S
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From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Fri Aug 14 21:36:14 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:36:14 -0700
Subject: Programming by Contract
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4A7A15CD.9090306@stoneleaf.us>
	<4A81C6B8.7010605@stoneleaf.us>		
	
Message-ID: <4A86110E.5050201@stoneleaf.us>

Charles Yeomans wrote:
> 
> On Aug 14, 2009, at 12:09 AM, Scott David Daniels wrote:
> 
>> Charles Yeomans wrote:
>>
>>> On Aug 11, 2009, at 3:30 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
>>
>>>> Ethan Furman wrote:
>>
>>>>> Greetings!
>>
>>>>> I have seen posts about the assert statement and PbC (or maybe it 
>>>>> was DbC), and I just took a very brief look at pycontract 
>>>>> (http://www.wayforward.net/pycontract/) and now I have at least one 
>>>>> question:  Is this basically another way of thinking about unit 
>>>>> testing, or is the idea of PbC more along the lines of *always* 
>>>>> checking the input/output of functions to ensure they are correct? 
>>>>>  (*Contstant vigilance!* as Prof Moody would say ;)
>>
>>>>> I know asserts can be turned off, so they obviously won't work for 
>>>>> the latter case, and having seen the sample of pycontract it seems 
>>>>> it only does its thing during debugging.
>>
>>>>> So is Design (Programming) by Contract a fancy way of saying 
>>>>> "Document your inputs/outputs!" or is there more to it?
>>
>>>>> ~Ethan~
>>
>>>>
>>>> Hmmm...
>>
>>>>
>>>> Well, from the (apparently) complete lack of interest, I shall take 
>>>> away the (better?) documentation ideas and unit testing ideas, and 
>>>> not worry about the rest.  :)
>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Design by contract is complementary to unit testing (I notice that 
>>> the author of PEP 316 appears confused about this).  DbC is, roughly 
>>> speaking, about explicit allocation of responsibility.  Consider this 
>>> contrived example.
>>
>>> def foo(s):
>>
>>>    require(s is not None)
>>
>>>    //code
>>
>>>    ensure(hasattr(returnValue, '__iter__'))
>>
>>
>> yo might want two flags, REQUIRE_OFF, and ENSURE_ON that control
>> testing, and change the code above to:
>>      require(REQUIRE_OFF or s is not None)
>>      //code
>>      ensure(ENSURE_OFF or hasattr(returnValue, '__iter__'))
>>
>> Python has no good way to turn off argument calculation by
>> manipulating function definition (at least that I know of).
>>
> 
> For this purpose, it had occurred to me to do something like the following.
> 
> def require(condition):
>     if condition:
>         return True
>     else:
> raise PreconditionFailure
> 
> 
> def foo(s):
>    assert require(s is not None)
> 
> 
> Then it occurred to me to actually read the assert documentation, where 
> I learned that one can pass a second expression to assert. So instead 
> one might write
> 
> assert precondition, "PreconditionFailure"
> 
> though I think I prefer the former.
> 
> 
> Charles Yeomans 
> 

And in either case, since such checks can have a *huge* impact on 
performance, it is good that asserts can be disabled with the -O 
optimize switch.  So it's also good that the original design for DbC was 
an _understanding_ of who is responsible for what, as opposed to _code_ 
to actually enforce it.

~Ethan~


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Aug 14 21:38:18 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 02:38:18 +0100
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
In-Reply-To: <24980842.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <24980842.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: 

Dr. Phillip M. Feldman wrote:
> I wrote the following correct but inefficient test of primality for purposes
> of demonstrating that the simplest algorithm is often not the most
> efficient.  But, when I try to run the following code with a value of n that
> is large enough to produce a significant amount of running time, I get an
> out-of-memory error!
> 
> def is_prime(n):
>    for j in range(2,n):
>       if (n % j) == 0: return False
>    return True
> 
> It seems as though Python is actually expanding range(2,n) into a list of
> numbers, even though this is incredibly wasteful of memory. There should be
> a looping mechanism that generates the index variable values incrementally
> as they are needed.
I have a strong suspicion that you will find hints in the Python 
documentation that this has already been addressed.  Perhaps you could 
try reading before posting?

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Fri Aug 14 21:43:42 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:43:42 -0700
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
In-Reply-To: <24980842.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <24980842.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <4A8612CE.7080700@stoneleaf.us>

Dr. Phillip M. Feldman wrote:
> I wrote the following correct but inefficient test of primality for purposes
> of demonstrating that the simplest algorithm is often not the most
> efficient.  But, when I try to run the following code with a value of n that
> is large enough to produce a significant amount of running time, I get an
> out-of-memory error!
> 
> def is_prime(n):
>    for j in range(2,n):
>       if (n % j) == 0: return False
>    return True
> 
> It seems as though Python is actually expanding range(2,n) into a list of
> numbers, even though this is incredibly wasteful of memory. There should be
> a looping mechanism that generates the index variable values incrementally
> as they are needed.

You already have an answer to the range issue, so I will only add that 
putting a loop inside another loop is a decent way to expand the time taken.

I will also observe that if you were to stop programming whatever 
language you are more familiar with in Python, and start programming 
Python in Python, you'll have an easier time of it.

The Dive Into Python is an excellent start for that.

~Ethan~


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Aug 14 21:53:13 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 10:53:13 +0900
Subject: implementing descriptors
In-Reply-To: <85502415-f861-43ab-8827-4184952d8bea@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
References: <39aff5a5-97ec-41f7-ab26-6e4d842b9c5c@r33g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>	
	
	
	<85502415-f861-43ab-8827-4184952d8bea@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

dippim wrote:

> will say that as this particular requirement is imposed on this class
> by the writer, shouldn't it be the writer's responsibility to enforce
> it, especially, when the cost of enforcement is so low?

I would say that it is the writer's responsibility to set the 
requirement and be clear as to what it is and define the contract with 
respect to the requirement. The latter could either be user 
responsibility -- behavior explicitly undefined if violated -- or writer 
responsibility -- with either fix or raise exception upon violation 
detection.

Python's duck-typing style tends to put responsibility on callers. Consider

def minmidmax(seq):
   seq.sort()
   n = len(seq)
   return seq[0], seq[n//2], seq[n-1]

This requires that seq have sane .sort, .__len__, and .__getitem__ 
methods.  Checks could be added, but most Python programs would simply 
say the the input must be an in-place sortable sequence.

Terry Jan Reedy



From rt8396 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 22:01:26 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 19:01:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 14, 8:25?pm, "Dr. Phillip M. Feldman" 
wrote:
> I wrote the following correct but inefficient test of primality for purposes
> of demonstrating that the simplest algorithm is often not the most
> efficient. ?But, when I try to run the following code with a value of n that
> is large enough to produce a significant amount of running time, I get an
> out-of-memory error!

I don't think Python was created to keep mathematician's happy.
Although strangely enough, the creator holds a masters degree in
mathematics *and* computer science. Just another one of life's little
ironies ;)


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Aug 14 22:03:42 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 11:03:42 +0900
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a Serial
	port?
In-Reply-To: <7el2mqF2gi53eU1@mid.individual.net>
References: 
	<7el2mqF2gi53eU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: 

greg wrote:

> You can't read and write with the same stdio file object
> at the same time. Odd things tend to happen if you try.

I believe the C standard specifies that the behavior of mixed reads and 
writes is undefined without intervening seek and/or flush, even if the 
seek is ignored (as it is on some Unix systems). With two threads, the 
timing is undetermined.



From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Fri Aug 14 22:17:35 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 04:17:35 +0200
Subject: Splitting a string into substrings of equal size
In-Reply-To: <4a85ffe2$0$24643$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4a85ffe2$0$24643$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: 

15-08-2009 candide  wrote:

> Suppose you need to split a string into substrings of a given size  
> (except
> possibly the last substring). I make the hypothesis the first slice is  
> at the end of the string.
> A typical example is provided by formatting a decimal string with  
> thousands separator.

I'd use iterators, especially for longer strings...


import itertools

def separate(text, grouplen=3, sep=','):
     "separate('12345678') -> '123,456,78'"
     repeated_iterator = [iter(text)] * grouplen
     groups = itertools.izip_longest(fillvalue='', *repeated_iterator)
     strings = (''.join(group) for group in groups)  # gen. expr.
     return sep.join(strings)

def back_separate(text, grouplen=3, sep=','):
     "back_separate('12345678') -> '12,345,678'"
     repeated_iterator = [reversed(text)] * grouplen
     groups = itertools.izip_longest(fillvalue='', *repeated_iterator)
     strings = [''.join(reversed(group)) for group in groups]  # list compr.
     return sep.join(reversed(strings))

print separate('12345678')
print back_separate('12345678')

# alternate implementation
# (without "materializing" 'strings' as a list in back_separate):
def separate(text, grouplen=3, sep=','):
     "separate('12345678') -> '12,345,678'"
     textlen = len(text)
     end = textlen - (textlen % grouplen)
     repeated_iterator = [iter(itertools.islice(text, 0, end))] * grouplen
     strings = itertools.imap(lambda *chars: ''.join(chars),  
*repeated_iterator)
     return sep.join(itertools.chain(strings, (text[end:],)))

def back_separate(text, grouplen=3, sep=','):
     "back_separate('12345678') -> '12,345,678'"
     beg = len(text) % grouplen
     repeated_iterator = [iter(itertools.islice(text, beg, None))] *  
grouplen
     strings = itertools.imap(lambda *chars: ''.join(chars),  
*repeated_iterator)
     return sep.join(itertools.chain((text[:beg],), strings))

print separate('12345678')
print back_separate('12345678')


http://docs.python.org/library/itertools.html#recipes
was the inspiration for me (especially grouper).

Cheers,
*j
-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From davea at ieee.org  Fri Aug 14 22:25:18 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 22:25:18 -0400
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences
	in 	string literals]
In-Reply-To: 
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>		<02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>		
	
Message-ID: <4A861C8E.4030602@ieee.org>

Benjamin Kaplan wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Douglas Alan wrote:
>
>   
>> P.S. Overloading "left shift" to mean "output" does indeed seem a bit
>> sketchy, but in 15 years of C++ programming, I've never seen it cause
>> any confusion or bugs.
>>     
>
>
>
> The only reason it hasn't is because people use it in "Hello World". I bet
> some newbie C++ programmers get confused the first time they see << used to
> shift.
>
>   
Actually, I've seen it cause confusion, because of operator precedence.  
The logical shift operators have a fairly high level priority, so 
sometimes you need parentheses that aren't obvious.  Fortunately, most 
of those cases make compile errors.


C++ has about 17 levels of precedence, plus some confusing associative 
rules.  And operator overloading does *NOT* change precedence.

DaveA



From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Fri Aug 14 22:40:05 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 04:40:05 +0200
Subject: Splitting a string into substrings of equal size
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4a85ffe2$0$24643$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	
Message-ID: 

15-08-2009 Jan Kaliszewski  wrote:

> 15-08-2009 candide  wrote:
>
>> Suppose you need to split a string into substrings of a given size  
>> (except
>> possibly the last substring). I make the hypothesis the first slice is  
>> at the end of the string.
>> A typical example is provided by formatting a decimal string with  
>> thousands separator.
>
> I'd use iterators, especially for longer strings...
>
>
> import itertools
[snip]

Err... It's too late for coding... Now I see obvious and simpler variant:

def separate(text, grouplen=3, sep=','):
     "separate('12345678') -> '123,456,78'"
     textlen = len(text)
     end = textlen - (textlen % grouplen)
     strings = (text[i:i+grouplen] for i in xrange(0, end, grouplen))
     return sep.join(itertools.chain(strings, (text[end:],)))

def back_separate(text, grouplen=3, sep=','):
     "back_separate('12345678') -> '12,345,678'"
     textlen = len(text)
     beg = textlen % grouplen
     strings = (text[i:i+grouplen] for i in xrange(beg, textlen, grouplen))
     return sep.join(itertools.chain((text[:beg],), strings))

print separate('12345678')
print back_separate('12345678')

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From guthrie at mum.edu  Fri Aug 14 23:20:34 2009
From: guthrie at mum.edu (guthrie)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 20:20:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: py-rrdTool - install fails
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 14, 3:39?pm, Christian Heimes  wrote:
> guthrie schrieb:
>
>
>
> > I want to do some rrd in a python cgi script, but am having trouble
> > getting an easy install module.
>
> > py-rrdTool looks good, but is distributed in c source, and is missing
> > a header file in the distribution. Thus the install fails when it
> > tries to reference rrd.h which is not there.
>
> > Are there better rrd modules to use, or a compiled version of this, or
> > other suggestions?
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > building 'rrdtool._rrdtool' extension
> > C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio 9.0\VC\BIN\cl.exe /c /nologo /
> > Ox /MD /W3 /GS- /DNDEBUG -I/usr/local\include "-IE:\PLang\Active Python
> > \include" "-IE:\PLang\Active Python\PC" /Tcsrc/_rrdtoolmodule.c /
> > Fobuild\temp.win32-2.6\Release\src/_rrdtoolmodule.obj
> > _rrdtoolmodule.c
> > src/_rrdtoolmodule.c(34) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include
> > file: 'rrd.h': No such file or directory
> > error: command '"C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio 9.0\VC\BIN
> > \cl.exe"' failed with exit status 2
>
> > C:\Documents and Settings\guthrie\Desktop\py-rrdtool-0.2.1>
>
> rrd.h is part of the rrdtools. You need to install rrdtools plus all its
> dependencies. Have a lot of fun ;)
>
> Christian

Thanks;
I got py-rrttool-0.2.1 from sourceforge, but in its src directory it
has only 3 files,
  _rrdtoolmodule.c, rrd_extra.h, and rrd_format.h

   http://sourceforge.net/projects/py-rrdtool/files/py-rrdtool/0.2.1/

(same for site: http://www.nongnu.org/py-rrdtool/ )

Where should I be looking for other dependencies?

I installed rrdtools.exe, and don't see any rrd.h file in that
hierarchy.


From magawake at gmail.com  Fri Aug 14 23:28:32 2009
From: magawake at gmail.com (Mag Gam)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 23:28:32 -0400
Subject: unittest
Message-ID: <1cbd6f830908142028v638a4c06jf0f859be712e724c@mail.gmail.com>

I am writing an application which has many command line arguments.
For example: foo.py -args "bar bee"

I would like to create a test suit using unittest so when I add
features to "foo.py" I don't want to break other things. I just heard
about unittest and would love to use it for this type of thing.

so my question is, when I do these tests do I have to code them into
foo.py? I prefer having a footest.py which will run the regression
tests. Any thoughts about this?

TIA


From dieter at handshake.de  Sat Aug 15 00:41:20 2009
From: dieter at handshake.de (Dieter Maurer)
Date: 15 Aug 2009 06:41:20 +0200
Subject: httplib incredibly slow :-(
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4A81D3CB.7080209@simplistix.co.uk>
	
	<4A82EFDC.70502@simplistix.co.uk>
	<4eb0089f0908121753o5ecf141dj304b21c3df0d3d6b@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Chris Withers  writes on Thu, 13 Aug 2009 08:20:37 +0100:
> ...
> I've already established that the file downloads in seconds with
> [something else], so I'd like to understand why python isn't doing the
> same and fix the problem...

A profile might help to understand what the time is used for.

As almost all operations are not done in Python itself ("httplib" is really
a very tiny wrapper above a socket), a C level profile may be necessary
to understand the behaviour.

Dieter


From bouncyinc at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 00:46:19 2009
From: bouncyinc at gmail.com (John Haggerty)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 22:46:19 -0600
Subject: getting a "simple" program to work
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<50697b2c0908112146q6e12650dt914518166b4fae72@mail.gmail.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

I'm checking back with some new info.

Apparently the maintainer of the ogss package indicated that this is
definately an issue with the libgmail package.

Now I have already submtted help to the maintainer of libgmail to get some
help it making his project work again.

I am also interesetd in how roundabout smtp support could be added to that
program specifically

    print "Seding back results"
                    account.sendMessage(tosend)
                    print "Logging..."
                    execd.append(int(maxmessage.id,16))
                    towrite = str(int(maxmessage.id,16))+"~ "
                    for arg in command:
                        towrite += arg+" "
                    w.write(towrite+"\n")
                    print "Listening for commands"

in the code sample from ogss.py to take that subroutine and turn it around
to allow the same arguments

basically take the above

and add

-----------------------------------------

gmail_user = ""    #Username
gmail_pwd  = ""        #Password
gmail_alt  = " "        #Alias ID
gmail_alias = ""+gmail_alt        #nickname
mailing_list = ""
class mailz:
  def __init__(self):
    self.files=[""]
    self.mail = MIMEMultipart()

  def attach(self,fil):
    self.files.append(fil)

  def mailprep(self,to, subject, text):
    self.to = to
    self.mail['From'] = gmail_alias
    self.mail['To'] = to
    self.mail['Subject'] = subject
    if (mailtoBcc !="") :
      self.mail['BCC'] = mailtoBcc

    text+="\n\n\n_________________________\nMail generated By  PyGmS
"+ver+"\n - Made By Djays\n        http://djsh.net"

    self.mail.attach(MIMEText(text))
    print self.files

    for attach in self.files:
      if (attach != "") :
          part = MIMEBase('application', 'octet-stream')
          part.set_payload(open(attach, 'rb').read())
          Encoders.encode_base64(part)
          part.add_header('Content-Disposition','attachment; filename="%s"'
%
os.path.basename(attach))
          self.mail.attach(part)

  def sendmail(self):
    self.mailServer = smtplib.SMTP("smtp.gmail.com", 587)
    self.mailServer.ehlo()
    self.mailServer.starttls()
    self.mailServer.ehlo()
    self.mailServer.login(gmail_user, gmail_pwd)
    self.mailServer.sendmail(gmail_user, self.to, self.mail.as_string())
    self.mailServer.close()
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I hate to sound like a newb but the problem is that I'm running into
apathetic maintainers of the software in question which has yet to be
redacted as "working" and at the present time I have to deal with
multi-server conglomerates like "Request Tracker" or "Roundup" both of which
are simply not authenticating into gmail at all.

At first I thought this was an issue of the ssl certificates not working but
hen how come it's possible to have any of the code working when it's just
the sending?

And how is it possible that generic but different code can be working when
it's all broken?

Not to sound in any way belligerent but when this would be my 5th program
language to solve a simple problem I think this is solveable w/o having to
resort to the equivalent to a half semester of CS I in python imho.

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 10:41 PM, John Haggerty  wrote:

> Just checking to see if this is more adequate to what you would have wanted
> to see I didn't get any feedback so I wasn't quite sure of this at the
> present time.
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 11:02 PM, John Haggerty wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 10:46 PM, Chris Rebert  wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 8:42 PM, John Haggerty
>>> wrote:
>>> > ok so I know this is one of those "weird" requests but here me out.
>>> > So far I have an issue with a package for python called "libgmail"
>>> which is
>>> > basically a gmail interface for python to send messages remoetly.
>>> > Works ok except that the 'sendMessage' routine is bad.
>>>
>>> How is it "bad" precisely? Be specific (e.g. error message(s),
>>> description of observed incorrect behavior).
>>>
>>
>> In regards to bad would be failing to transmit claiming that the submittal
>> is wrong for the transmit string.
>>
>> (where username is my gmail username and "password" is my gmail password
>> to the test account, 6666666969 is the mobile number in question '00' is my
>> "carrier id" from the ogss code example which is just an array location from
>> a preformatted part of the string [probably from wikipedia on mobile carrier
>> email addresses to cell phones], I actually got desperate and commented out
>> the first attempt to transmit which I located in the code as just the
>> "instructions" the code fails on re-transmission, I later on looked at the
>> file and located that it was a zero byte file of no content. The program
>> itself looks for a command from the user's cell phone directly from mms sent
>> to the target gmail account prefaced by "Ogss" and anything else is treated
>> as a command but since the command failed on the first transmit I don't
>> think it's the command per se).
>>
>> owner at bouncyinc:~/Desktop/OGSS$ python ogss.py username password
>> 6666666969 00
>> Starting ogss
>> Logfile at:/home/owner/ogss.log
>> Opening log file for reading
>> Parsing user input
>> Connecting to Gmail
>> Logging into Gmail
>> Opening log file for writing
>> Listening for commands
>> Processing Command
>> ls: unrecognized option `---------------------------------------------'
>> Try `ls --help' for more information.
>> Seding back results
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "ogss.py", line 127, in 
>>     main(sys.argv)
>>   File "ogss.py", line 110, in main
>>     account.sendMessage(tosend)
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/libgmail.py", line 615, in
>> sendMessage
>>     raise GmailSendError, resultInfo[SM_MSG]
>> libgmail.GmailSendError: Please try again.
>>
>> I traced the result to the sendMessage routine and noted that anytime it
>> tries to send anything it fails this also fails with the standard "docs"
>> package for libgmail 0.30 docs from the maintainer's site.
>>
>> Now the part where it *does* fail is where it has an issue with looking at
>> the trailing info but then it would have logged the info to the file and
>> emailed me back junk (which it didn't)
>>
>> I assume this could be done on any system just replace 'ls' with 'dir' or
>> the equivalent.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> > This is included in the above attachment
>>> > it's used in a program called "ogss" which is an sms interface to gmail
>>> to
>>> > basically read gmail and then have a command done on a remote machine
>>> and
>>> > then spat out on the local machine to a log file that's opened and then
>>> > emailed back
>>> > problem is that the sending back routine fails.
>>>
>>> Which routine is that exactly? Please also specify exactly how it is
>>> failing (e.g. error message(s), description of observed incorrect
>>> behavior).
>>>
>>> I apologize if these questions are answered in comments in the
>>> attachments, but to be honest, the fact that you didn't (or couldn't)
>>> put the specific problematic sections of code (and/or error messages)
>>> inline in your message makes it less likely that people (such as
>>> myself) will try to help you due to the volume of code you're making
>>> people wade through (i.e. people tend not to read large code dumps,
>>> /especially/ in attachments).
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Chris
>>> --
>>> http://blog.rebertia.com
>>>
>> That's ok I understand I hope that helps at least in part.
>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

From oraclebill at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 01:15:36 2009
From: oraclebill at gmail.com (Bill Jones)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 22:15:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	
	
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	 
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro ups.com> 
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	 
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 8, 3:27?pm, Mark Lawrence  wrote:
> Kee Nethery wrote:
> > As someone trying to learn the language I want to say that the tone on
> > this list towards people who are trying to learn Python ?feels like it
> > has become anti-newbies.
>
> [snip]
>
> > Kee Nethery
>
> My gut feeling (which could of course be wrong) is that many hard core
> Pythonistas are cheesed off with newbies who refuse to help themselves.

The funny thing is that their response is to shutdown changes that are
intended
to *help* newbies help themselves. It seems self-defeating to me.



From jonrascal at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 01:39:08 2009
From: jonrascal at gmail.com (Rascal)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 22:39:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
References: 
Message-ID: <04359a4b-9336-4936-8a15-a845ecebe4ba@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

look at xrange -- http://docs.python.org/library/functions.html#xrange


From jonrascal at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 02:08:14 2009
From: jonrascal at gmail.com (Rascal)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 23:08:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Splitting a string into substrings of equal size
References: <4a85ffe2$0$24643$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	 
	
Message-ID: <3842c750-9633-4e8e-84da-4853784bce64@v37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

I'm bored for posting this, but here it is:

def add_commas(str):
    str_list = list(str)
    str_len = len(str)
    for i in range(3, str_len, 3):
        str_list.insert(str_len - i, ',')
    return ''.join(str_list)



From chardster at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 02:24:00 2009
From: chardster at gmail.com (Richard Thomas)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 23:24:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: unittest
References: 
Message-ID: <75330ab0-329c-4842-a5b0-ddf0ccefe8ea@r18g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 15, 4:28?am, Mag Gam  wrote:
> I am writing an application which has many command line arguments.
> For example: foo.py -args "bar bee"
>
> I would like to create a test suit using unittest so when I add
> features to "foo.py" I don't want to break other things. I just heard
> about unittest and would love to use it for this type of thing.
>
> so my question is, when I do these tests do I have to code them into
> foo.py? I prefer having a footest.py which will run the regression
> tests. Any thoughts about this?
>
> TIA

You should certainly keep your test suite separate. There's a quick
example of how to write unit tests in the unittest documentation:
http://docs.python.org/library/unittest.html#basic-example

Richard.


From python at rcn.com  Sat Aug 15 03:10:36 2009
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 00:10:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: implementing descriptors
References: <39aff5a5-97ec-41f7-ab26-6e4d842b9c5c@r33g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	 
	
Message-ID: <8e92d272-ddf8-44ef-9bc9-86b60a5855e5@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

> Raymond,
> ? ?This functionality is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks! ?I'll
> be using this to solve my problem.
>
> ? ?Now that I'm on the right track, I'm still a bit confused about how
> __get__ and __set__ are useful. ?Admittedly, I don't need to
> understand them to solve this problem, but perhaps they may be useful
> in the future. ?If I wanted to solve this problem using __get__ and
> __set__ could it be done?

The __get__ and __set__ methods are used to implement property()
itself.
So, if you didn't have property, you could roll your own version:

class MyProperty(object):

    def __init__(self, fget, fset):
        self.fget = fget
        self.fset = fset

    def __get__(self, obj, objtype=None):
        return self.fget(obj)

    def __set__(self, obj, value):
        self.fset(obj, value)


class foo(object):
    def __init__(self,a = None,b = None):
        self._start = a
        self._end = b
    def get_start(self):
        return self._start
    def set_start(self, value):
        if self._end is None or value < self._end:
            self._start = value
        else:
            self._end = value
    start = MyProperty(get_start, set_start)
    def get_end(self):
        return self._end
    def set_end(self, value):
        if self._start is None or value > self._start:
            self._end = value
        else:
            self._start = value
    end = MyProperty(get_end, set_end)


Raymond



From mobiledreamers at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 03:12:56 2009
From: mobiledreamers at gmail.com (mobiledreamers at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 00:12:56 -0700
Subject: Natural Language Processing in Python
In-Reply-To: <9fdb569a0908141126x19d2d4c5q6abc99de7e390f94@mail.gmail.com>
References: 
	<9fdb569a0908141126x19d2d4c5q6abc99de7e390f94@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

Try this out

Fotoroll does term extraction http://bit.ly/HCPDi

So to get json output of list of terms post to
http://fotoroll.com/findterms?json=true&text=Content+to+extract terms from

Hope this helps

Fotoroll Term extraction No limit on number of queries per day Yahoo 5000
queries a day Zemanta 1000 queries a day with regn

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 11:26 AM, Vlastimil Brom
wrote:

> 2009/8/14 Prateek :
> > Hi,
> >
> > Can somebody please provide me link to a good online resource or e-
> > book for doing natural language processing programming in Python.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Prateek
> > --
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> >
>
> Maybe you could start with NLTK
> http://www.nltk.org/
> Check the toolkit as well as the documentation.
>
> hth
>  vbr
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
Bidegg worlds best auction site
http://bidegg.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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From dmitrey.kroshko at scipy.org  Sat Aug 15 03:17:04 2009
From: dmitrey.kroshko at scipy.org (dmitrey)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 00:17:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: "for" cycle with assigning index
Message-ID: <4149f0b2-603d-4c59-aa34-bd0fd826303c@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

Hi all,
could you inform me how to do it properly?

I have the cycle

for i in xrange(len(Funcs2)): # Funcs2 is Python dict
     Funcs.append(lambda *args, **kwargs: (Funcs2[i](*args, **kwargs)
[IndDict[left_arr_indexes[i]]]))

So, all the Funcs are initialized with i = last index = len(Funcs2)

When I involve

for i in xrange(len(Funcs2)):
     Funcs.append(lambda i=i,*args, **kwargs: (Funcs2[i](*args,
**kwargs)[IndDict[left_arr_indexes[i]]]))

I get "list indices must be integers, not dict" (and i is equal to
Python dictionary, that is Funcs2)

So, how to do it correctly?
Thank you in advance, D.


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Sat Aug 15 03:29:13 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 09:29:13 +0200
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a Serial
	port?
In-Reply-To: <20090814135837.11286.700809778.divmod.xquotient.174@localhost.localdomain>
References: 
	<200908141538.15798.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
	<20090814135837.11286.700809778.divmod.xquotient.174@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <200908150929.13885.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Friday 14 August 2009 15:58:37 exarkun at twistedmatrix.com wrote:

> One strategy you might employ to get rid of the busy looping is to use
> Twisted and its serial port support.  This also addresses the full-
> duplex issue you've raised.

I know - vaguely - about twisted and I have been dancing around the fire, not 
really ready to put the time in to understand it properly.   Looks like the 
time has come though - my weekend is really going to hell.

I am now going to make a loopback connector and start playing.

Thanks to everybody for the feedback.

- Hendrik


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 03:39:59 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 00:39:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: "for" cycle with assigning index
References: <4149f0b2-603d-4c59-aa34-bd0fd826303c@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6a5fd53a-1c29-48d3-b3cc-c48350acc736@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 15, 12:17?am, dmitrey  wrote:
> Hi all,
> could you inform me how to do it properly?
>
> I have the cycle
>
> for i in xrange(len(Funcs2)): # Funcs2 is Python dict
> ? ? ?Funcs.append(lambda *args, **kwargs: (Funcs2[i](*args, **kwargs)
> [IndDict[left_arr_indexes[i]]]))
>
> So, all the Funcs are initialized with i = last index = len(Funcs2)
>
> When I involve
>
> for i in xrange(len(Funcs2)):
> ? ? ?Funcs.append(lambda i=i,*args, **kwargs: (Funcs2[i](*args,
> **kwargs)[IndDict[left_arr_indexes[i]]]))
>
> I get "list indices must be integers, not dict" (and i is equal to
> Python dictionary, that is Funcs2)
>
> So, how to do it correctly?
> Thank you in advance, D.


Define a helper function to do it:

def create_funcs_caller(i):
    def func(*args,**kwargs):
        return(Funcs2[i](*args,**kwargs)[IndDict[left_arr_indexes
[i]]]))
    retirm func

for i in xrange(len(Funcs2)):
    Funcs.append(create_funcs_caller(i))


(I prefer to do it this way in any case; never liked the keyword
argument hack way of doing it.)


Carl Banks


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Sat Aug 15 03:52:21 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 09:52:21 +0200
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a Serial
	port?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <200908150952.21825.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Friday 14 August 2009 16:19:04 Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2009-08-14, Hendrik van Rooyen  wrote:
> > In the meantime I have had another idea which I have also not tried yet,
> > namely to do independent opens for reading and writing, to give me two
> > file instances instead of one, and to try with that.  I have no idea if
> > it would make any difference, or even work at all.
>
> That should work (and shouldn't make any difference)
>
> > My normal stuff works, but I do not like it as it is
> > essentially busy looping with short sleeps in between. In the
> > eBox, it uses most of the processor just to move a few bytes
> > of I/O in and out between the serial port and the TCP/IP, and
> > struggles to do that better than five times a second, while
> > the message time on the 115200 baud port is only about 2
> > milliseconds.
>
> What platform are you using?  I suppose it's possible that
> there's something broken in the serial driver for that
> particular hardware.

Your experience seems to be exactly the opposite to mine - you are saying it 
should "just work" and I am seeing half duplex functionality.

I have seen this on my development machine which is a dual processor of some 
gigs running SuSe Linux 10.3, as well as on the other end of a the scale - 
the eBox (a 400MHz 486 without floating point with 128 Mb of memory) running 
Slackware.

Maybe it is in the way I set the port up, because that is the common thing. 
What I do is this:

reterror = os.system('stty -F /dev/ttyS0 sane 115200 cread clocal raw -echo')

It does not seem to make a difference if I do this before or after opening the 
port.

Any comments from a Linux Guru?

- Hendrik





From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Sat Aug 15 04:09:02 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 10:09:02 +0200
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a Serial
	port?
In-Reply-To: <7el95aF2h0d12U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: 
	
	<7el95aF2h0d12U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <200908151009.02540.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Friday 14 August 2009 16:03:22 Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

> You should *really* just use pyserial. No hassle, instant satisfaction.

:-)  I have downloaded and had a quick look, and I see it is based on the 
standard library's serial.Serial class - another battery that I have not used 
before.  And I see that serial.Serial looks like it uses os. calls, which is 
one of the things Greg mentioned.  Curioser and Curioser.

There was one thing I saw in a quick read of pyserial  that I did not like as 
I cannot understand why it is done - if a timeout  is set to less than a 
tenth of a second, then it is changed to be a tenth.  - In a polling protocol 
that will limit you to poll only ten terminals a second, or less, and is a 
very long time if a message takes only a couple of millis to send.

I am getting there - this time around I want to kill this problem dead because 
I seem to keep doing something wrong somewhere and I want to understand what 
it is and stop doing it.

- Hendrik



From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Sat Aug 15 04:14:39 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 10:14:39 +0200
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a Serial
	port?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <200908151014.39683.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Friday 14 August 2009 16:19:36 Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2009-08-14, exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  wrote:
> > One strategy you might employ to get rid of the busy looping
> > is to use Twisted and its serial port support.  This also
> > addresses the full- duplex issue you've raised.
>
> There are no such full-dulex issues.

I will put an example together as soon as I have finished reading and 
answering the mail - maybe I am crazy and chasing angels.

- Hendrik



From http  Sat Aug 15 04:15:13 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 15 Aug 2009 01:15:13 -0700
Subject: "for" cycle with assigning index
References: <4149f0b2-603d-4c59-aa34-bd0fd826303c@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<6a5fd53a-1c29-48d3-b3cc-c48350acc736@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7x1vndbii6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Carl Banks  writes:
> def create_funcs_caller(i):
>     def func(*args,**kwargs):
>         return(Funcs2[i](*args,**kwargs)[IndDict[left_arr_indexes[i]]])
>     retirm func
> 
> for i in xrange(len(Funcs2)):
>     Funcs.append(create_funcs_caller(i))

I prefer to get rid of the index variable:

    def create_funcs_caller(f,ix):
       return lambda *args, **kw: f(*args,**kw)[ix]

    Funcs = list(create_funcs_caller(f,ix)
                   for f,ix in zip(Funcs2, left_arr_indexes))

Or in point-free style:

    from itertools import starmap

    Funcs = starmap(create_funcs_caller, zip(Funcs2,left_arr_indexes))


From xahlee at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 04:18:39 2009
From: xahlee at gmail.com (Xah Lee)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 01:18:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: A Exhibition Of Tech Geekers Incompetence: Emacs whitespace-mode
References: <61ef4451-d6b6-493b-b4a0-1822a901ca8d@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Fresh out of the oven:

? How to use and setup Emacs's whitespace-mode
  http://xahlee.org/emacs/whitespace-mode.html

  Xah
? http://xahlee.org/

?

On Aug 13, 6:36 pm, Xah Lee  wrote:
> ? A Exhibition Of Tech Geekers Incompetence: Emacs whitespace-mode
>  http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/emacs_whitespace-mode_problems.html
>
> plane text version follows:
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> A Exhibition Of Tech Geekers Incompetence: Emacs whitespace-mode
>
> Xah Lee, 2009-08-13
>
> Just wanted to express some frustration with whitespace-mode.
>
> Emacs 23, just released, has this whitespace-mode feature. It renders
> spaces, tabs, newlines characters with a visible glyph. This feature,
> is in Microsoft Word since about 1992.
>
> This feature is important in practical ways. For example, when you
> work with ?tab separated line? files (CSV) that's a common format for
> importing/exporting address books or spreadsheets. It's also important
> in whitespace-significant langs such as Python. Or, in text processing
> when placement of space and tabs matters in the output.
>
> All i wanted, is to make Space and Tab and Newline chars visible.
>
> However, the emacs whitespace-mode does much more than that. It is
> designed for tech geeking control freaks to tune every aspect of white
> space in his source code. The mode is filled with bells and whistles.
> It distinguishes tabs mixed with spaces, EOLs mixed with spaces, EOLs
> at beginning of file, EOLs at end of file, run on spaces at end of
> line, lines that has nothing to do with white spaces but is simply
> longer than 80 chars, etc. Each of these is rendered with different
> foreground, background, colors, so that they cannot possibly escape
> the notices of control freaks.
>
> By default, most of these are on, so that, when you turn on the mode,
> most reasonable clean source code become this colorful rainbow
> unreadable fuck.
>
> I tried to tune it, with my 10 years of emacs of fucking 16 hours of
> using per day, and 3 years of elisp coding experience. But, after a
> hour, it's confusion hell sans avail.
>
> O, that Alex idiot with his emacswiki, refused to lead emacswiki into
> any readable state. All he can think about is my social skills. (See:
> Problems of Emacswiki.)
>
> What the fuck motherfuck. Hi tech geekers, coding freaks, social
> science ignoramus fucks, basic economics illiterate FSF fucks, freedom
> abusing selfish ideologists fucks, Richard Stallman propagandist fuck,
> we-try-to-be-easy-to-use linuxer idioting fucks, FUCK U.
>
>   Xah
> ? http://xahlee.org/
>
> ?


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Sat Aug 15 04:32:17 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 10:32:17 +0200
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a Serial
	port?
In-Reply-To: <1aGdnessDpUX6RjXnZ2dnUVZ_gCdnZ2d@posted.visi>
References: 
	<7el2mqF2gi53eU1@mid.individual.net>
	<1aGdnessDpUX6RjXnZ2dnUVZ_gCdnZ2d@posted.visi>
Message-ID: <200908151032.17185.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Friday 14 August 2009 16:28:26 Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2009-08-14, greg  wrote:
> > Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:
8<---------------------------------------------------------------

> Doh!  It didn't even occur to me that somebody would use python
> "file" objects for serial ports, and I completely overlooked
> the fact that the OP was doing that.
>
> In short: don't do that -- it just messes things up

*grin*

All right that makes me feel better - you were so adamant that there is no 
problem that I was starting to doubt my sanity. - So I hereby cancel the 
promise I have just made to put an example together. - It is no longer 
needed.

>
> Do not use Python file objects.  Use the underlying file
> descriptors: os.open(), os.read(), os.write().  That will
> almost certainly solve your problems.
>
> If you want examples of os.xxxxx() usage, below is the
> PosixSerial.py module that I use for Linux-only applications.
> For cross-platform work, use pyserial (whose Posix support is
> based on the code below).
>

8<  ---------------------------------PosixSerial.py----------------------------

Thanks that looks, on first inspection, similar to the serialposix.py module 
in the stdlib, but less cluttered.

- Hendrik


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 04:41:53 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 01:41:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
References: 
	
	
	<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>
	 
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro ups.com> 
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>
	 
	
	<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	
	 
	
Message-ID: <9e93859d-cfca-43ff-8bae-65308a8e1c4d@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 14, 10:15?pm, Bill Jones  wrote:
> On Aug 8, 3:27?pm, Mark Lawrence  wrote:
> > My gut feeling (which could of course be wrong) is that many hard core
> > Pythonistas are cheesed off with newbies who refuse to help themselves.
>
> The funny thing is that their response is to shutdown changes that are
> intended
> to *help* newbies help themselves. It seems self-defeating to me.

Intended to help newbies doesn't necessarily mean it actually will
help newbies.

(Just sayin'.)


Carl Banks


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Sat Aug 15 04:47:22 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 10:47:22 +0200
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in
	string literals]
In-Reply-To: <02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <200908151047.22231.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Friday 14 August 2009 18:11:52 Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 07:07:31 -0700, Aahz wrote:
> > "I saw `cout' being shifted "Hello world" times to the left and stopped
> > right there."  --Steve Gonedes
>
> Assuming that's something real, and not invented for humour, I presume
> that's describing something possible in C++. Am I correct? What the hell
> would it actually do???

It would shift "cout" left "Hello World" times.
It is unclear if the shift wraps around or not.

It is similar to a banana *holding his hands apart about a foot* this colour.

- Hendrik


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sat Aug 15 04:48:30 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 04:48:30 -0400
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in 
	string literals]
In-Reply-To: <200908151047.22231.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<200908151047.22231.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908150148o1532b656od0582acf261311ad@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 4:47 AM, Hendrik van
Rooyen wrote:
> On Friday 14 August 2009 18:11:52 Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 07:07:31 -0700, Aahz wrote:
>> > "I saw `cout' being shifted "Hello world" times to the left and stopped
>> > right there." ?--Steve Gonedes
>>
>> Assuming that's something real, and not invented for humour, I presume
>> that's describing something possible in C++. Am I correct? What the hell
>> would it actually do???
>
> It would shift "cout" left "Hello World" times.
> It is unclear if the shift wraps around or not.
>
> It is similar to a banana *holding his hands apart about a foot* this colour.
>
> - Hendrik

I think you managed to successfully dereference the null pointer there...

Cheers,
Chris


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Sat Aug 15 04:50:43 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 10:50:43 +0200
Subject: Why does my ftp script quit after couple of hours?
In-Reply-To: <337951bf-4d0d-4dde-95de-8e6d7d68a7f5@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
References: <6ec34299-107d-48c7-a5bf-6a10d5911411@j9g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	<7elh1lF2h1rl0U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<337951bf-4d0d-4dde-95de-8e6d7d68a7f5@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <200908151050.43954.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Friday 14 August 2009 18:25:50 kk wrote:

> As far as robustness, I agree with your assestment. I guess my main
> confusion with my result is that the console window just disappears. I
> wonder if I can make the window stay even if it crashesor if there are
> connection issues? I will createa  seperate log file to see if I can
> catch any issues in a log file.

try opening python with the -i flag - then the console window hangs around 
after the script exits and you can examine variables and stuff.

- Hendrik


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Sat Aug 15 05:20:12 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 02:20:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
References: <24980842.post@talk.nabble.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 15, 11:38?am, Mark Lawrence  wrote:
> Dr. Phillip M. Feldman wrote:> I wrote the following correct but inefficient test of primality for purposes
> > of demonstrating that the simplest algorithm is often not the most
> > efficient. ?But, when I try to run the following code with a value of n that
> > is large enough to produce a significant amount of running time, I get an
> > out-of-memory error!
>
> > def is_prime(n):
> > ? ?for j in range(2,n):
> > ? ? ? if (n % j) == 0: return False
> > ? ?return True
>
> > It seems as though Python is actually expanding range(2,n) into a list of
> > numbers, even though this is incredibly wasteful of memory. There should be
> > a looping mechanism that generates the index variable values incrementally
> > as they are needed.
>
> I have a strong suspicion that you will find hints in the Python
> documentation that this has already been addressed. ?Perhaps you could
> try reading before posting?

Alternative hypothesis: the good doctor read the Python 3.x
documentation but absent-mindedly ran Python 2.x


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Sat Aug 15 05:21:12 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 11:21:12 +0200
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
In-Reply-To: <24980842.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <24980842.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <200908151121.12542.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Saturday 15 August 2009 03:25:45 Dr. Phillip M. Feldman wrote:

> It seems as though Python is actually expanding range(2,n) into a list of
> numbers, even though this is incredibly wasteful of memory. There should be
> a looping mechanism that generates the index variable values incrementally
> as they are needed.

There is.

Use xrange instead of range, and try again.

And while you are about it, you may as well teach them that it is much better 
to do a multiplication than a division.

-Hendrik



From sleepy at cabbage.co.uk  Sat Aug 15 05:25:19 2009
From: sleepy at cabbage.co.uk (Sleepy Cabbage)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 09:25:19 GMT
Subject: get the pause status from amarok 2.1
References: 
	<7eku4bF2gtku3U2@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <3avhm.248709$bA.165466@newsfe16.ams2>

On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 12:55:07 +0200, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

> Sleepy Cabbage schrieb:
>> As the title says, I'm trying to find a way to get the pause status
>> from amarok 2.1.
>> 
>> I'm running kubuntu 9.04 with kde 4.2.2, python 2.6.2.
>> 
>> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Not at my linux-system right now, but dcop and the respective
> python-module should help.
> 
> Diez

Thanks for you reply Diez. i'm sure that kde4.2 now uses qdbus instead of 
dcop and not sure whether amarok has the qdbus org.kde.amarok /Player 
GetStatus as it returns the following: 
qdbus: I don't know how to display an argument of type '(iiii)'



From bh at izb.knu.ac.kr  Sat Aug 15 05:34:38 2009
From: bh at izb.knu.ac.kr (Byung-Hee HWANG)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 18:34:38 +0900
Subject: A Exhibition Of Tech Geekers Incompetence: Emacs whitespace-mode
References: <61ef4451-d6b6-493b-b4a0-1822a901ca8d@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <861vnda09d.fsf@betla.izb.knu.ac.kr>

Xah Lee  writes:

> ? A Exhibition Of Tech Geekers Incompetence: Emacs whitespace-mode
>   http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/emacs_whitespace-mode_problems.html
> [... snip 38 lines ...]

OK, Xah, thanks for good writing, i'll read it 27 hours later. And i
respect for your passion on Elisp, Python and text processing. BTW, i
don't agree with your thought that you dislike FSF. FSF is not bad
guy. Xah plz... 

Sincerely,

-- 
"Don Michael."
		-- Peter Clemenza, "Chapter 31", page 435


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Sat Aug 15 06:29:28 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 12:29:28 +0200
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a Serial
	port?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<7el2mqF2gi53eU1@mid.individual.net> 
Message-ID: <200908151229.29027.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Saturday 15 August 2009 04:03:42 Terry Reedy wrote:
> greg wrote:
> > You can't read and write with the same stdio file object
> > at the same time. Odd things tend to happen if you try.
>
> I believe the C standard specifies that the behavior of mixed reads and
> writes is undefined without intervening seek and/or flush, even if the
> seek is ignored (as it is on some Unix systems). With two threads, the
> timing is undetermined.

For a serial port, flush on write makes some sense, but seek is complete 
nonsense because it is undefined, and besides-  the point you try to seek to 
may never come around.  So the message I am getting loud and clear is that 
the basic thing I am doing wrong is to use the ordinary python open() instead 
of os.open().

As for the timing in two threads - Yes you are right, but there is not a lot 
one can do about it - The right solution depends to a large extent on what 
you are doing - for instance, if you are writing a polling protocol (such as 
Burroughs poll-select, or Uniscope), then you want a loop that transmits 
something, and waits for an answer or time out.  This is essentially half 
duplex, and in a high level language the natural structure to write this is 
in one thread.   On the other hand, if you are writing a sliding window type 
protocol that is capable of pouring stuff into a link asynchronously from 
both ends, then the natural way to do it is to use two threads - one to 
handle incoming stuff, and the other to squirt out the data that must go out.  
If, as is true in my case, the source of outgoing data and the sink for 
incoming data is a TCP/IP socket, then one can accomplish this with blocking 
I/O quite efficiently, provided you have a third thread looking after overall 
timing Issues.  For such a case, the timing is essentially determined by the 
flow of the data (provided of course that you can keep up with the link 
speed).   When one introduces another variable into the equation, namely the 
requirement to do a transmission at least every n milliseconds, (a feel-good 
keepalive) then you need a time out on the sources, so that you can either do 
a transmission or raise an alarm because a reporting period was missed.  So 
then you are back at a loop waiting for input or timeout, and doing a 
transmission afterwards.  Only now there are two of them, facing in opposite 
directions. 

I think this sort of thing is better written at a lower level where one has 
access to the interrupts from the ports, as well as a timer interrupt to 
handle timing and timeout issues.  But that is a lot of work, so I make do 
with python.

- Hendrik


From magawake at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 07:32:15 2009
From: magawake at gmail.com (Mag Gam)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 07:32:15 -0400
Subject: unittest
In-Reply-To: <75330ab0-329c-4842-a5b0-ddf0ccefe8ea@r18g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<75330ab0-329c-4842-a5b0-ddf0ccefe8ea@r18g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1cbd6f830908150432v4a88ad86ge9a266b647088fca@mail.gmail.com>

So, in this example:

"import random"

In my case I would do "import foo" ? is there anything I need to do for that?




On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 2:24 AM, Richard Thomas wrote:
> On Aug 15, 4:28?am, Mag Gam  wrote:
>> I am writing an application which has many command line arguments.
>> For example: foo.py -args "bar bee"
>>
>> I would like to create a test suit using unittest so when I add
>> features to "foo.py" I don't want to break other things. I just heard
>> about unittest and would love to use it for this type of thing.
>>
>> so my question is, when I do these tests do I have to code them into
>> foo.py? I prefer having a footest.py which will run the regression
>> tests. Any thoughts about this?
>>
>> TIA
>
> You should certainly keep your test suite separate. There's a quick
> example of how to write unit tests in the unittest documentation:
> http://docs.python.org/library/unittest.html#basic-example
>
> Richard.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Sat Aug 15 07:44:59 2009
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (greg)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 23:44:59 +1200
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a Serial
	port?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<7el2mqF2gi53eU1@mid.individual.net>
	
Message-ID: <7enlcsF2fqpebU1@mid.individual.net>

Terry Reedy wrote:

> I believe the C standard specifies that the behavior of mixed reads and 
> writes is undefined without intervening seek and/or flush, even if the 
> seek is ignored (as it is on some Unix systems). With two threads, the 
> timing is undetermined.

It's also possible that the stdio object is being locked
while one of the threads is using it, which would also
account for the observed half-duplex behaviour.

Another good reason to steer clear of file objects!

-- 
Greg


From chris at simplistix.co.uk  Sat Aug 15 07:55:37 2009
From: chris at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 12:55:37 +0100
Subject: Python 2.6 still not giving memory back to the OS...
Message-ID: <4A86A239.3030404@simplistix.co.uk>

Hi All,

I thought this was fixed back in Python 2.5, but I guess not?

So, I'm playing in an interactive session:

 >>> from xlrd import open_workbook
 >>> b = open_workbook('some.xls',pickleable=0,formatting_info=1)

At this point, top shows the process usage for python to be about 500Mb.
That's okay, I'd expect that, b is big ;-)

 >>> del b

However, it still does now, maybe the garbage collector needs a kick?

 >>> import gc
 >>> gc.collect()
702614

Nope, still 500Mb. What gives? How can I make Python give the memory its 
no longer using back to the OS?

Okay, so maybe this is something to do with it being an interactive 
session? So I wrote this script:

from xlrd import open_workbook
import gc
b = open_workbook('some.xls',pickleable=0,formatting_info=1)
print 'opened'
raw_input()
del b
print 'deleted'
raw_input()
gc.collect()
print 'gc'
raw_input()

The raw inputs are there so I can check the memory usage in top.
Even after the gc, Python still hasn't given the memory back to the OS :-(

What am I doing wrong?

Chris

-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting
            - http://www.simplistix.co.uk


From contact at xavierho.com  Sat Aug 15 08:09:50 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 22:09:50 +1000
Subject: What happened to __cmp__() in Python 3.x?
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908150509k1b6a3b98j7e76ae6596108280@mail.gmail.com>

Hey all,

I've recently made my way to Python 3.1 and I'm not seeing __cmp__() in the
documentation.

Is there a substitution for this special method in 3.1, or do I really have
to define all six rich comparison methods to work it out?

If this question has already been asked somewhere, I apologise in advance.
Already googled around but I didn't find information on this.

Any replies appreciated.

Ching-Yun "Xavier" Ho, Technical Artist

Contact Information
Mobile: (+61) 04 3335 4748
Skype ID: SpaXe85
Email: contact at xavierho.com
Website: http://xavierho.com/
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From contact at xavierho.com  Sat Aug 15 08:16:14 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 22:16:14 +1000
Subject: What's a good solution to implement rich comparison for user-defined 
	classes? (was: What happened to __cmp__() in Python 3.x?)
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908150516i7fb00b80ub3e9481c8bf3f3f9@mail.gmail.com>

Never mind my last email. Google actually found me something at last.

I also found this page:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2008-November/688591.html

That still uses a sloppy way of defining the special methods, and a little
chunky.

Is there a better way for the lazy me?

Ching-Yun "Xavier" Ho, Technical Artist

Contact Information
Mobile: (+61) 04 3335 4748
Skype ID: SpaXe85
Email: contact at xavierho.com
Website: http://xavierho.com/
-------------- next part --------------
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From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Aug 15 08:25:00 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 15 Aug 2009 12:25:00 GMT
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
References: 
Message-ID: <02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:25:45 -0700, Dr. Phillip M. Feldman wrote:

> It seems as though Python is actually expanding range(2,n) into a list
> of numbers, even though this is incredibly wasteful of memory. There
> should be a looping mechanism that generates the index variable values
> incrementally as they are needed.


Others have already pointed out to you that xrange() (for Python 2.x) 
does what you want. In Python 3.x, the old range() is gone for good, and 
xrange() renamed to just range().

However, I'd like to point out that your subject line is fundamentally 
incorrect. What you've discovered has *nothing* to do with for-loops: the 
for-loop will happily iterate over whatever object you pass to it (or at 
least try to, because not all objects are iterable). You might be 
thinking that Python requires you to write for-loops as 

for i in range(...):

but that's not correct. The for-loop doesn't care what object comes after 
the "in" and before the ":", so long as it can iterate over it one item 
at a time:

for i in [1, 3, 4, 5, 2, 0, -1, 8, 7, 6]:
    print i

for c in "abcd":
    print c

and many other variations will work perfectly fine.


The memory-consumption you have discovered is a property of the range() 
function, not the for-loop:

>>> L = range(2, 20)
>>> L
[2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19]

Compare to xrange:

>>> L = xrange(2, 20)
>>> L
xrange(2, 20)
>>> list(L)  # expand out into a list
[2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19]


By the way, both range() and xrange() take an optional 'stepsize' 
argument, defaulting to 1:

>>> range(3, 20, 2)
[3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17, 19]


help(range) and help(xrange) in the interactive interpreter are your 
friends.



-- 
Steven


From candide at free.invalid  Sat Aug 15 08:28:27 2009
From: candide at free.invalid (candide)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 14:28:27 +0200
Subject: Splitting a string into substrings of equal size
In-Reply-To: <4a85ffe2$0$24643$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4a85ffe2$0$24643$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4a86a9eb$0$1557$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

Thanks to all for your response.  I particularly appreciate Rascal's solution.


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Aug 15 08:39:47 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 15 Aug 2009 12:39:47 GMT
Subject: unittest
References: 
	<75330ab0-329c-4842-a5b0-ddf0ccefe8ea@r18g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <02969ce9$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 07:32:15 -0400, Mag Gam wrote:

> So, in this example:
> 
> "import random"
> 
> In my case I would do "import foo" ? is there anything I need to do for
> that?


Suppose you have a file mymodule.py containing your code, and you want 
some unit tests. 

If you only have a few, you can probably put them inside mymodule.py, but 
let's say you have lots and want to keep them in a separate file. So 
create a new module mymoduletests.py, and start it like this:

# mymoduletests.py

import unittest
import mymodule

class MyTests(unittest.TestCase):  # Inherit from the TestCase class.
    # Put your tests inside this class
    def test_module_has_docstring(self):
        """Fail if the module has no docstring, or if it is empty."""
        docstring = mymodule.__doc__
        self.assert_(docstring is not None)
        self.assert_(docstring.strip() != '')

if __name__ == '__main__':
    # only execute this part when you run the module
    # not when you import it
    unittest.main()




Now to actually run the tests, from command-line, type:

python mymoduletests.py

and hit enter. (You do this from the operating system shell, not the 
Python interactive interpreter.) You should see something like this:

.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ran 1 tests in 0.001s

OK




-- 
Steven


From michael at stroeder.com  Sat Aug 15 08:40:35 2009
From: michael at stroeder.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_Str=F6der?=)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 14:40:35 +0200
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a Serial
	port?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4vmil6-ait.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>

Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:
> In the past, on this  group, I have made statements that said that on Linux, 
> the serial port handling somehow does not allow transmitting and receiving at 
> the same time, and nobody contradicted me.

Despite all the good comments here by other skilled people I'd recommend to
determine whether the transmission line to the devices accessed support full
duplex.

My knowledge is a bit rusty on this topic. But I vaguely remember having to
deal with symmetric two-wire connections (RS-485) which were definitely
limited to half-duplex by the wire. So the PC hardware was a normal serial
port with the usual UART hardware device but the transmission protocols were
limited to half-duplex.

Ciao, Michael.


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Sat Aug 15 09:38:53 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 15:38:53 +0200
Subject: Splitting a string into substrings of equal size
In-Reply-To: <3842c750-9633-4e8e-84da-4853784bce64@v37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
References: <4a85ffe2$0$24643$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	
	
	<3842c750-9633-4e8e-84da-4853784bce64@v37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Dnia 15-08-2009 o 08:08:14 Rascal  wrote:

> I'm bored for posting this, but here it is:
>
> def add_commas(str):
>     str_list = list(str)
>     str_len = len(str)
>     for i in range(3, str_len, 3):
>         str_list.insert(str_len - i, ',')
>     return ''.join(str_list)

For short strings (for sure most common case) it's ok: simple and clear.
But for huge ones, it's better not to materialize additional list for the
string -- then pure-iterator-sollutions would be better (like Gabriel's or
mine).

Cheers,
*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From davea at ieee.org  Sat Aug 15 09:44:25 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 09:44:25 -0400
Subject: Python 2.6 still not giving memory back to the OS...
In-Reply-To: <4A86A239.3030404@simplistix.co.uk>
References: <4A86A239.3030404@simplistix.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4A86BBB9.5010705@ieee.org>

Chris Withers wrote:
> 
Hi All,
>
> I thought this was fixed back in Python 2.5, but I guess not?
>
> So, I'm playing in an interactive session:
>
> >>> from xlrd import open_workbook
> >>> b = open_workbook('some.xls',pickleable=0,formatting_info=1)
>
> At this point, top shows the process usage for python to be about 500Mb.
> That's okay, I'd expect that, b is big ;-)
>
> >>> del b
>
> However, it still does now, maybe the garbage collector needs a kick?
>
> >>> import gc
> >>> gc.collect()
> 702614
>
> Nope, still 500Mb. What gives? How can I make Python give the memory 
> its no longer using back to the OS?
>
> Okay, so maybe this is something to do with it being an interactive 
> session? So I wrote this script:
>
> from xlrd import open_workbook
> import gc
> b = open_workbook('some.xls',pickleable=0,formatting_info=1)
> print 'opened'
> raw_input()
> del b
> print 'deleted'
> raw_input()
> gc.collect()
> print 'gc'
> raw_input()
>
> The raw inputs are there so I can check the memory usage in top.
> Even after the gc, Python still hasn't given the memory back to the OS 
> :-(
>
> What am I doing wrong?
>
> Chris
>
You're not doing anything wrong.  I don't know of any other environment 
that "gives the memory back" to the OS.

I don't know Unix/Linux memory management, but I do know Windows, and I 
suspect the others are quite similar.  There are a few memory allocators 
within Windows itself, and some more within the MSC runtime library.  
They work similarly enough that I can safely just choose one to 
explain.  I'll pick on malloc().

When malloc() is called for the first time (long before your module is 
loaded), it asks the operating system's  low-level mapping allocator for 
a multiple of 64k.  The 64k will always be aligned on a 64k boundary, 
and is in turn divided into 4k pages.  The 64k could come from one of 
three places -  the swapfile, an executable (or DLL), or a data file, 
but there's not much real difference between those.  malloc() itself 
will always use the swapfile.  Anyway, at this point my memory is a 
little bit fuzzy.  I think only 4k of the swapfile is actually mapped 
in, the rest being reserved.  But malloc() will then build some data 
structures for that 64k block, and as memory is requested, get more and 
more pieces of that 64k, till the whole thing is mapped in.  Then, 
additional multiples of 64k are allocated in the same way, and of course 
the data structures are chained together.  If an application "frees" a 
block, the data structure is updated, but the memory is not unmapped.  
Theoretically, if all the blocks within one 64k were freed, malloc() 
could release the 64k block to the OS, but to the best of my knowledge, 
malloc() never does.   Incidentally, there's a different scheme for 
large blocks, but that's changed several times, and I have no idea how 
it's done now.

Now, C programmers sometimes write a custom allocator, and in C++, it's 
not hard to have a custom allocator manage all instances of a particular 
class.  This can be convenient for applications that know how their 
memory usage patterns are likely to work.  Photoshop for example can be 
configured to use "user swap space" (I forget what they call it) from 
files that Photoshop explicitly allocates.  And space from that 
allocator is not from the swapfile, so it's not constrained by other 
running applications, and wouldn't be counted by the Windows equivalent 
of  'top'  (eg. the Windows Task Manager).

A custom allocator can also be designed to know when a particular set of 
allocations are all freed, and release the memory entirely back to the 
system.  For instance, if all temp data for a particular transaction is 
put into an appropriate custom allocator, then at the end of the 
transaction, it can safely be released.

I would guess that Python doesn't do any custom allocators, and 
therefore never releases the memory back to the system.  It will however 
reuse it when you allocate more stuff.


DaveA  (author of the memory tracking subsystem of NuMega's BoundsChecker)



From grante at visi.com  Sat Aug 15 10:25:03 2009
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 09:25:03 -0500
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a Serial
	port?
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-15, Hendrik van Rooyen  wrote:
> On Friday 14 August 2009 16:19:04 Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>> What platform are you using?  I suppose it's possible that
>> there's something broken in the serial driver for that
>> particular hardware.
>
> Your experience seems to be exactly the opposite to mine - you
> are saying it should "just work" and I am seeing half duplex
> functionality.

If you're using Python's normal open()/read()/write() calls,
then that introduces all sorts of issues.  I always use direct
OS calls os.open(), os.read(), os.write().

> Any comments from a Linux Guru?

Are you using python file operations open/read/write or OS
file-descriptor operations os.open/os.read/os.write?

-- 
Grant



From grante at visi.com  Sat Aug 15 10:37:42 2009
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 09:37:42 -0500
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a Serial
	port?
References: 
	
	<7el95aF2h0d12U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-15, Hendrik van Rooyen  wrote:
> On Friday 14 August 2009 16:03:22 Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
>
>> You should *really* just use pyserial. No hassle, instant satisfaction.
>
>:-) I have downloaded and had a quick look, and I see it is
> based on the standard library's serial.Serial class - another
> battery that I have not used before.

There is no "serial" module in the standard library.  The
serial module is provided by pyserial.

> And I see that serial.Serial looks like it uses os. calls,
> which is one of the things Greg mentioned.

Indeed.  You shouldn't try to use normal open/read/write calls
with serial ports.

-- 
Grant



From grante at visi.com  Sat Aug 15 10:40:09 2009
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 09:40:09 -0500
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a Serial
	port?
References: 
	<7el2mqF2gi53eU1@mid.individual.net>
	<1aGdnessDpUX6RjXnZ2dnUVZ_gCdnZ2d@posted.visi>
	
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-15, Hendrik van Rooyen  wrote:

> 8<  ---------------------------------PosixSerial.py----------------------------
>
> Thanks that looks, on first inspection, similar to the
> serialposix.py module in the stdlib, but less cluttered.

pyserial is a bit more complex because it is cross-platform and
supports Windows, as well as RFC2272 telnet backends (and OS
X?).  The Posix support in pyserial is based on an earlier
version of PosixSerial.

-- 
Grant



From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Sat Aug 15 12:11:49 2009
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 09:11:49 -0700
Subject: callable virtual method
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4A85798B.6020501@sequans.com>	<4A8587A0.6040008@mrabarnett.plus.com>		<02959b54$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:49:26 +0200, Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>>
>>  
>>> Sorry guys (means guys *and* gals :op ), I realized I've not been able
>>> to describe precisely what I want to do. I'd like the base class to be
>>> virtual (aka abstract). However it may be abstract but it does not mean
>>> it cannot do some usefull stuff.
>>>
>>>
>>> Here is the schema of my abstract methods :
>>>
>>> class Interface(object):
>>>     def method(self):
>>>         # ---------------------
>>>         # some common stuff executed here
>>>         # ---------------------
>>>         print 'hello world'
>>>         # ---------------------
>>>         # here shall stand child specific stuff (empty in the interface
>>> method)
>>>         # ---------------------
>>>         if self.__class__.method == Interface.method:
>>>             raise NotImplementedError('You should have read the f******
>>> manual ! You must override this method.')
>>>     
>>
>>
>> Okay, so I want to sub-class your Interface class. As you said, the 
>> methods in the abstract class are still useful, so in my class, I 
>> don't need any extra functionality for some methods -- I'm happy with 
>> just the "common stuff". So I use normal OO techniques and over-ride 
>> just the methods I need to over-ride:
>>
>>   
> Sometimes the base is doing cool stuff but incomplete stuff which 
> requires knowledge only hold by the sub class. In my case the interface 
> is a high level interface for a software that can run on multiple 
> hardware platforms. Only the sub class has knowledge on how to operate 
> the hardware, but no matter the hardware it still produces the same effect.
> 
> Let's say I have 50 different hardwares, I'll have 50 sub classes of 
> Interface with the 'start' method to define. It wouldn't be appropriate 
> (OO programming)to write 50 times '_log.debug('Starting %s' % self)' in 
> each child start method when the simple task of logging the call can be 
> nicely handled by the base class.
> 
> In the meantime, I must make sure  the user, who is not a python guru in 
> this case, has implemented the start method for his hardware, because 
> only him knows how to effectively start this hardware. I don't want him 
> to come to me saying, "I got no error, still my hardware does not 
> start". You can then blame him for not reading the docs, but it will 
> still be less expensive to throw a nice exception with an accurate 
> feedback.
> 
> [snip]
>> class VerboseGoodChild(Interface):
>>     # forced to over-ride methods for no good reason
>>   
> 
> Definitely no !! This is the purpose of an interface class: to force 
> people to write these methods. They *are* required, if they were not, 
> they would not belong to the Interface.
> 
> JM

But there _is_ one moment when you can check those things, then avoid
checking thereafter: object creation.  So you can complicate your
__init__ (or __new__) with those checks that make sure you instantiate
only fully defined subclasses:

# obviously not tested except in concept:

     class Base(object_or_whatever):
          def __init__(self, ...):
              class_ = self.__class__
              if class_ is Base:
                  raise TypeError('Attempt to instantiate Base class')
              for name in 'one two three four':
                  if getattr(Base, name) is not getattr(Base, name):
                      raise NotImplementedError(
                                  '%s implementation missing' % name)
              ...

--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From dickinsm at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 12:41:44 2009
From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 09:41:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python 2.6 still not giving memory back to the OS...
References: 
Message-ID: <38581c40-b7ed-4dbf-a3af-33e1761ba7b0@r7g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 15, 12:55?pm, Chris Withers  wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I thought this was fixed back in Python 2.5, but I guess not?
>
> So, I'm playing in an interactive session:
>
> ?>>> from xlrd import open_workbook
> ?>>> b = open_workbook('some.xls',pickleable=0,formatting_info=1)
>
> At this point, top shows the process usage for python to be about 500Mb.
> That's okay, I'd expect that, b is big ;-)
>
> ?>>> del b
>
> However, it still does now, maybe the garbage collector needs a kick?
>
> ?>>> import gc
> ?>>> gc.collect()
> 702614
>
> Nope, still 500Mb. What gives? How can I make Python give the memory its
> no longer using back to the OS?
> [...]

Can you get the same effects without using the xlrd module? I don't
have xlrd installed on my system (OS X 10.5/Intel), but I just tried
the following:

Python 2.6.2 (r262:71600, Jun 17 2009, 09:08:27)
[GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Inc. build 5490)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> b = 'x'*(10**9)
>>> f = open('testfile.txt', 'w')
>>> f.write(b)
>>> del b
>>> f = open('testfile.txt')
>>> b = f.read()
>>> del b

and got the expected memory usage for my Python process, as
displayed by top:  memory usage went up to nearly 1Gb after
each assignment to b, then dropped down to 19 Mb or so after
each 'del b'.  I get similar results under Python 2.5.

So maybe there's something in xlrd that's hanging on to all
that memory?

Mark


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Aug 15 12:47:07 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 17:47:07 +0100
Subject: Python docs disappointing - group effort to hire writers?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 			<09bf4f17-40a5-4bad-81d3-1950545b7570@g6g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>		<109f1ff7-8fa9-40d3-80b4-1e90b5fc669c@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>	<756580E3-CFFA-404C-B66A-9F4281760C8E@kagi.com>	
	<93b1f0d4-8b15-4b19-99d3-065495e387e6@s31g2000yqs.googlegro
	ups.com>
	<5.2.1.1.2.20090805210119.01c7cab8@blue-cove.com>	
		<96ebd700-e48b-47b4-88a4-68b77cc8058d@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>		
	
Message-ID: 

Bill Jones wrote:
> On Aug 8, 3:27 pm, Mark Lawrence  wrote:
>> Kee Nethery wrote:
>>> As someone trying to learn the language I want to say that the tone on
>>> this list towards people who are trying to learn Python  feels like it
>>> has become anti-newbies.
>> [snip]
>>
>>> Kee Nethery
>> My gut feeling (which could of course be wrong) is that many hard core
>> Pythonistas are cheesed off with newbies who refuse to help themselves.
> 
> The funny thing is that their response is to shutdown changes that are
> intended
> to *help* newbies help themselves. It seems self-defeating to me.
> 
And I still do not believe this to be true.  Documents are being changed 
all the time.  See the python-dev mailing list "Summary of python 
tracker issues" dated 17/24/31 July and 07/14 August 2009.  The only 
request I recall being rejected is someone objecting to the use of 
"weapons" in a piece of sample code.

Also see Issue6660 on the bug tracker, it is of particular interest to 
anyone who's interested in plans for python.org documentation links.

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From markstahler at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 13:01:15 2009
From: markstahler at gmail.com (kramed)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 10:01:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Error: No SSL support included in this Python ?
Message-ID: 

Hi there, I am running Windows on my dev machine and am running into
the following error while running Django and my email routines.

Exception Type:  	RuntimeError
Exception Value: 	No SSL support included in this Python
Exception Location: 	C:\Python26\lib\smtplib.py in starttls, line 615

This may sounds stupid but I thought SSL support was baked into
Python? I am running Active State Python 2.6.2 and Django 1.1. The
code works on my server but emails are not being sent properly so I
need to debug the app.

Can someone please point out what I am missing. Thanks


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Aug 15 13:06:04 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 18:06:04 +0100
Subject: What happened to __cmp__() in Python 3.x?
In-Reply-To: <2d56febf0908150509k1b6a3b98j7e76ae6596108280@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2d56febf0908150509k1b6a3b98j7e76ae6596108280@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

Xavier Ho wrote:
> Hey all,
> 
> I've recently made my way to Python 3.1 and I'm not seeing __cmp__() in the
> documentation.
> 
> Is there a substitution for this special method in 3.1, or do I really have
> to define all six rich comparison methods to work it out?
> 
> If this question has already been asked somewhere, I apologise in advance.
> Already googled around but I didn't find information on this.
> 
> Any replies appreciated.
> 
> Ching-Yun "Xavier" Ho, Technical Artist
> 
> Contact Information
> Mobile: (+61) 04 3335 4748
> Skype ID: SpaXe85
> Email: contact at xavierho.com
> Website: http://xavierho.com/
> 
> 
http://bytes.com/topic/python/answers/844614-python-3-sorting-comparison-function

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Sat Aug 15 13:11:29 2009
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 10:11:29 -0700
Subject: unittest
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Mag Gam wrote:
> I am writing an application which has many command line arguments.
> For example: foo.py -args "bar bee"
> 
> I would like to create a test suit using unittest so when I add
> features to "foo.py" I don't want to break other things. I just heard
> about unittest and would love to use it for this type of thing.
> 
> so my question is, when I do these tests do I have to code them into
> foo.py? I prefer having a footest.py which will run the regression
> tests. Any thoughts about this?
> 
> TIA
I avoid putting the tests in foo.py, simply because the bulk of my
tests would make the code harder to read.  So, no, unittest does not
require that you code things into foo.py.  You will find that you
may bend your coding style within foo.py in order to make it more
testable, but (if you do it right) that should also make the code
clearer.

--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Aug 15 13:12:33 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 18:12:33 +0100
Subject: What's a good solution to implement rich comparison for
	user-defined classes? (was: What happened to __cmp__() in Python 3.x?)
In-Reply-To: <2d56febf0908150516i7fb00b80ub3e9481c8bf3f3f9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2d56febf0908150516i7fb00b80ub3e9481c8bf3f3f9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

Xavier Ho wrote:
> Never mind my last email. Google actually found me something at last.
> 
> I also found this page:
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2008-November/688591.html
> 
> That still uses a sloppy way of defining the special methods, and a little
> chunky.
> 
> Is there a better way for the lazy me?
> 
> Ching-Yun "Xavier" Ho, Technical Artist
> 
> Contact Information
> Mobile: (+61) 04 3335 4748
> Skype ID: SpaXe85
> Email: contact at xavierho.com
> Website: http://xavierho.com/
> 
> 
Did you follow on to this?
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2008-November/688661.html

I think it's your call as to what to do next.

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Sat Aug 15 13:18:53 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 19:18:53 +0200
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a Serial
	port?
In-Reply-To: <4vmil6-ait.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
References: 
	<4vmil6-ait.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
Message-ID: <200908151918.54065.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Saturday 15 August 2009 14:40:35 Michael Str?der wrote:
> Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:
> > In the past, on this  group, I have made statements that said that on
> > Linux, the serial port handling somehow does not allow transmitting and
> > receiving at the same time, and nobody contradicted me.
>
> Despite all the good comments here by other skilled people I'd recommend to
> determine whether the transmission line to the devices accessed support
> full duplex.
>
> My knowledge is a bit rusty on this topic. But I vaguely remember having to
> deal with symmetric two-wire connections (RS-485) which were definitely
> limited to half-duplex by the wire. So the PC hardware was a normal serial
> port with the usual UART hardware device but the transmission protocols
> were limited to half-duplex.

You raise a good point, that is probably not well known amongst the youngsters 
here, as simple serial multidropping has gone out of fashion.

There is nothing wrong with your memory as far as RS-485 goes - you have 
to "turn the line around", same as for *shudder* Burroughs TDI (Two Wire 
Direct Interface).  Otherwise, if two or more parties talk at once you have 
cacophony.  An RS-422 link is to some extent worse, as it is capable of full 
duplex, but the slaves cannot hear each other, so they have to listen and 
play very nicely with the master.

This instance Is not one of those, thank heaven - I am on both sides of the 
link - once in the eBox in python, and on the other side there is just one  
Dallas chip - a fast (30 Mhz single cycle) 8051 lookalike that I programmed 
in assembler.  It is a thing that does discrete I/O that we have made for a 
customer. The link in between is just RS-232 receive and transmit without 
hardware flow control or anything fancy.  This is why I was so certain that 
there was something wrong in my python part, because I could use the second 
port on the Dallas to do monitoring, by spewing stuff out into Hyper 
Terminal.

- Hendrik



From python-url at phaseit.net  Sat Aug 15 13:23:36 2009
From: python-url at phaseit.net (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 17:23:36 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Aug 15)
Message-ID: 

QOTW:  "They questioned my competence and that made her very sad." - Roger
Wallis,expert witness for Pirate Bay, on his wife
    http://torrentfreak.com/pirate-bay-witness-wife-overwhelmed-with-flowers-090227/


    unicode(s) is, surprisingly, MUCH faster (for certain encodings) than
    s.decode():
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/314a3043ea63319f/

    It is not possible to overload a compound "< <" operator (as in:
    a < x < b):
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/5b931a6417b7829d/

    Automatic join of "consecutive" " string " "literals": bug or feature?
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/174d4e2b7c0203d/

    Also, unrecognized escape sequences in string literals stay in the
    string: bug or feature?
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/4e1ea6f550a8a1d1/

    Restricting dictionary keys to those objects explicitely defining
    __eq__ / __hash__ may be useful in certain cases:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/d35856349110c18c/

    How to find out in which module an instance was created?
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/6acd71c326591325/

    Monkey-patching an instance to make it callable (without altering other
    instances of the same class):
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/6fdfc6458d82b581/

    reload() and the 'from ... import ...' form of the import statement:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/994a6af36febabb5/

    Several recipes to extract unique elements from a list:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/e5015c12a57b46b8/

    All those __double_underscored__ names are confusing - why do they exist?
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/e75ce772af98aaac/

    
========================================================================
Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    marvelous daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily

    Just beginning with Python?  This page is a great place to start:
	http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide/Programmers

    The Python Papers aims to publish "the efforts of Python enthusiasts":
	http://pythonpapers.org/
    The Python Magazine is a technical monthly devoted to Python:
	http://pythonmagazine.com

    Readers have recommended the "Planet" sites:
	http://planetpython.org
	http://planet.python.org

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python.announce/topics

    Python411 indexes "podcasts ... to help people learn Python ..."
    Updates appear more-than-weekly:
        http://www.awaretek.com/python/index.html

    The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
        http://www.python.org/pypi/

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
    match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
    subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
        http://www.pythonology.com/success

    The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
    Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
    responsibility for Python's development and maintenance.
        http://www.python.org/psf/
    Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
        http://www.python.org/psf/donations/

    The Summary of Python Tracker Issues is an automatically generated
    report summarizing new bugs, closed ones, and patch submissions. 
        http://search.gmane.org/?author=status%40bugs.python.org&group=gmane.comp.python.devel&sort=date

    Although unmaintained since 2002, the Cetus collection of Python
    hyperlinks retains a few gems.
        http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
    interesting recipes.
	http://code.activestate.com/recipes/langs/python/

    Many Python conferences around the world are in preparation.
    Watch this space for links to them.

    Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available, see:
        http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
    For more, see:
        http://www.syndic8.com/feedlist.php?ShowMatch=python&ShowStatus=all
    The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
    SourceForge reincarnation.
        http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
	http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0042/

    del.icio.us presents an intriguing approach to reference commentary.
    It already aggregates quite a bit of Python intelligence.
        http://del.icio.us/tag/python

    Enjoy the *Python Magazine*.
	http://pymag.phparch.com/

    *Py: the Journal of the Python Language*
        http://www.pyzine.com

    Dr.Dobb's Portal is another source of Python news and articles:
        http://www.ddj.com/TechSearch/searchResults.jhtml?queryText=python
    and Python articles regularly appear at IBM DeveloperWorks:
        http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/search/searchResults.jsp?searchSite=dW&searchScope=dW&encodedQuery=python&rankprofile=8

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://search.gmane.org/?query=python+URL+weekly+news+links&group=gmane.comp.python.general&sort=date
  http://groups.google.com/groups/search?q=Python-URL!+group%3Acomp.lang.python&start=0&scoring=d&
  http://lwn.net/Search/DoSearch?words=python-url&ctype3=yes&cat_25=yes

There is *not* an RSS for "Python-URL!"--at least not yet.  Arguments
for and against are occasionally entertained.


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
E-mail to  should get through.

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning
(approximately), ask  to subscribe.  Mention
"Python-URL!".  Write to the same address to unsubscribe.


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Phaseit, Inc. (http://phaseit.net) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.  Watch this space for upcoming
news about posting archives.


From emile at fenx.com  Sat Aug 15 13:28:00 2009
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 10:28:00 -0700
Subject: Splitting a string into substrings of equal size
In-Reply-To: <4a85ffe2$0$24643$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4a85ffe2$0$24643$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: 

On 8/14/2009 5:22 PM candide said...
> Suppose you need to split a string into substrings of a given size (except
> possibly the last substring). I make the hypothesis the first slice is at the
> end of the string.
> A typical example is provided by formatting a decimal string with thousands
> separator.
> 
> 
> What is the pythonic way to do this ?

I like list comps...

 >>> jj = '1234567890123456789'
 >>> ",".join([jj[ii:ii+3] for ii in range(0,len(jj),3)])
'123,456,789,012,345,678,9'
 >>>

Emile



From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Sat Aug 15 13:33:10 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 19:33:10 +0200
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a Serial
	port?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <200908151933.10803.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Saturday 15 August 2009 16:25:03 Grant Edwards wrote:

>
> Are you using python file operations open/read/write or OS
> file-descriptor operations os.open/os.read/os.write?

The former - that seems to be the source of my trouble.

I have now written a little test that uses serial.Serial and it works a treat.

I am still confused about pyserial and serial - I found serial in my 
distribution library, (on the SuSe machine, not on the 2.5 in Slackware) but 
I had to download pyserial.  I see that you were the the original author.  
Thank you for letting this stuff loose in the wild.

- Hendrik



From lists at cheimes.de  Sat Aug 15 14:05:36 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 20:05:36 +0200
Subject: Python 2.6 still not giving memory back to the OS...
In-Reply-To: <38581c40-b7ed-4dbf-a3af-33e1761ba7b0@r7g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<38581c40-b7ed-4dbf-a3af-33e1761ba7b0@r7g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A86F8F0.5060101@cheimes.de>

Mark Dickinson wrote:
> and got the expected memory usage for my Python process, as
> displayed by top:  memory usage went up to nearly 1Gb after
> each assignment to b, then dropped down to 19 Mb or so after
> each 'del b'.  I get similar results under Python 2.5.

I get the same results on Linux:

Python 2.6.2 (release26-maint, Apr 19 2009, 01:58:18)
[GCC 4.3.3] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import os, psutil
>>> pi = psutil.Process(os.getpid())
>>> [mem/1024.**2 for mem in pi.get_memory_info()]
[4.71875, 28.2578125]
>>> s = 'x' * (10**9)
>>> [mem/1024.**2 for mem in pi.get_memory_info()]
[958.40234375, 981.93359375]
>>> del s
>>> [mem/1024.**2 for mem in pi.get_memory_info()]
[11.62890625, 55.1875]

Christian



From lists at cheimes.de  Sat Aug 15 14:05:36 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 20:05:36 +0200
Subject: Python 2.6 still not giving memory back to the OS...
In-Reply-To: <38581c40-b7ed-4dbf-a3af-33e1761ba7b0@r7g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<38581c40-b7ed-4dbf-a3af-33e1761ba7b0@r7g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A86F8F0.5060101@cheimes.de>

Mark Dickinson wrote:
> and got the expected memory usage for my Python process, as
> displayed by top:  memory usage went up to nearly 1Gb after
> each assignment to b, then dropped down to 19 Mb or so after
> each 'del b'.  I get similar results under Python 2.5.

I get the same results on Linux:

Python 2.6.2 (release26-maint, Apr 19 2009, 01:58:18)
[GCC 4.3.3] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import os, psutil
>>> pi = psutil.Process(os.getpid())
>>> [mem/1024.**2 for mem in pi.get_memory_info()]
[4.71875, 28.2578125]
>>> s = 'x' * (10**9)
>>> [mem/1024.**2 for mem in pi.get_memory_info()]
[958.40234375, 981.93359375]
>>> del s
>>> [mem/1024.**2 for mem in pi.get_memory_info()]
[11.62890625, 55.1875]

Christian


From roy at panix.com  Sat Aug 15 14:17:39 2009
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 14:17:39 -0400
Subject: getting the fractional part of a real?
Message-ID: 

What's the best way to get the fractional part of a real?  The two ways I 
can see are r % 1 and r = int(r), but both seem a bit hokey.  Is there 
something more straight-forward that I'm missing, like fraction(r)?


From lists at cheimes.de  Sat Aug 15 14:40:54 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 20:40:54 +0200
Subject: getting the fractional part of a real?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A870136.70306@cheimes.de>

Roy Smith schrieb:
> What's the best way to get the fractional part of a real?  The two ways I 
> can see are r % 1 and r = int(r), but both seem a bit hokey.  Is there 
> something more straight-forward that I'm missing, like fraction(r)?

>>> import math
>>> math.modf(1.5)
(0.5, 1.0)

Christian


From gregor.lingl at aon.at  Sat Aug 15 14:48:51 2009
From: gregor.lingl at aon.at (Gregor Lingl)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 20:48:51 +0200
Subject: Splitting a string into substrings of equal size
In-Reply-To: <4a85ffe2$0$24643$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4a85ffe2$0$24643$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4A870313.4040702@aon.at>


> What is the pythonic way to do this ?
> 
> 
> For my part, i reach to this rather complicated code:
> 
> 
> # ----------------------
> 
> def comaSep(z,k=3, sep=','):
>     z=z[::-1]
>     x=[z[k*i:k*(i+1)][::-1] for i in range(1+(len(z)-1)/k)][::-1]
>     return sep.join(x)
> 
> # Test
> for z in ["75096042068045", "509", "12024", "7", "2009"]:
>     print z+" --> ", comaSep(z)
> 

Just if you are interested, a recursive solution:

 >>> def comaSep(z,k=3,sep=","):
	return comaSep(z[:-3],k,sep)+sep+z[-3:] if len(z)>3 else z

 >>> comaSep("7")
'7'
 >>> comaSep("2007")
'2,007'
 >>> comaSep("12024")
'12,024'
 >>> comaSep("509")
'509'
 >>> comaSep("75096042068045")
'75,096,042,068,045'
 >>>

Gregor


From gregor.lingl at aon.at  Sat Aug 15 14:49:45 2009
From: gregor.lingl at aon.at (Gregor Lingl)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 20:49:45 +0200
Subject: Splitting a string into substrings of equal size
In-Reply-To: <4a85ffe2$0$24643$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4a85ffe2$0$24643$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4a870358$0$2292$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>


> What is the pythonic way to do this ?
> 
> 
> For my part, i reach to this rather complicated code:
> 
> 
> # ----------------------
> 
> def comaSep(z,k=3, sep=','):
>     z=z[::-1]
>     x=[z[k*i:k*(i+1)][::-1] for i in range(1+(len(z)-1)/k)][::-1]
>     return sep.join(x)
> 
> # Test
> for z in ["75096042068045", "509", "12024", "7", "2009"]:
>     print z+" --> ", comaSep(z)
> 

Just if you are interested, a recursive solution:

 >>> def comaSep(z,k=3,sep=","):
	return comaSep(z[:-3],k,sep)+sep+z[-3:] if len(z)>3 else z

 >>> comaSep("7")
'7'
 >>> comaSep("2007")
'2,007'
 >>> comaSep("12024")
'12,024'
 >>> comaSep("509")
'509'
 >>> comaSep("75096042068045")
'75,096,042,068,045'
 >>>

Gregor


From dickinsm at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 14:50:00 2009
From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 11:50:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: getting the fractional part of a real?
References: 
	
Message-ID: <9e6ce7f2-deba-4538-88f3-2d44ab5ada4b@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 15, 7:40?pm, Christian Heimes  wrote:
> Roy Smith schrieb:
>
> > What's the best way to get the fractional part of a real? ?The two ways I
> > can see are r % 1 and r = int(r), but both seem a bit hokey. ?Is there
> > something more straight-forward that I'm missing, like fraction(r)?
> >>> import math
> >>> math.modf(1.5)
>
> (0.5, 1.0)

What Christian said.  math.fmod(r, 1.0) also works.

Note that r % 1 and r - int(r) aren't the same thing for negative
reals.
What sign do you want the result to have when r is negative?

Mark


From gregor.lingl at aon.at  Sat Aug 15 14:50:03 2009
From: gregor.lingl at aon.at (Gregor Lingl)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 20:50:03 +0200
Subject: Splitting a string into substrings of equal size
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4a85ffe2$0$24643$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	
Message-ID: <4a87036a$0$2292$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>

Emile van Sebille schrieb:
> On 8/14/2009 5:22 PM candide said...
...
>> What is the pythonic way to do this ?
> 
> I like list comps...
> 
>  >>> jj = '1234567890123456789'
>  >>> ",".join([jj[ii:ii+3] for ii in range(0,len(jj),3)])
> '123,456,789,012,345,678,9'
>  >>>
> 
> Emile
> 

Less beautiful but more correct:

 >>> ",".join([jj[max(ii-3,0):ii] for ii in
                              range(len(jj)%3,len(jj)+3,3)])
'1,234,567,890,123,456,789'

Gregor


From gregor.lingl at aon.at  Sat Aug 15 14:55:55 2009
From: gregor.lingl at aon.at (Gregor Lingl)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 20:55:55 +0200
Subject: getting the fractional part of a real?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <4a8704ca$0$2292$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>

Christian Heimes schrieb:
> Roy Smith schrieb:
>> What's the best way to get the fractional part of a real?  The two 
>> ways I can see are r % 1 and r = int(r), but both seem a bit hokey.  
>> Is there something more straight-forward that I'm missing, like 
>> fraction(r)?
> 
>>>> import math
>>>> math.modf(1.5)
> (0.5, 1.0)
> 
> Christian

Or without the need to import something:

 >>> divmod(1.5, 1)
(1.0, 0.5)
 >>>

Gregor


From nagle at animats.com  Sat Aug 15 15:24:26 2009
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 12:24:26 -0700
Subject: A Exhibition Of Tech Geekers Incompetence: Emacs whitespace-mode
In-Reply-To: 
References: <61ef4451-d6b6-493b-b4a0-1822a901ca8d@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <4a870a7b$0$1674$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

fortunatus wrote:
> On Aug 14, 1:01 pm, vippstar  wrote:
>> Why would you fill your website with junk?
> 
> The OP made it clear:
> 
>> Just wanted to express some frustration with whitespace-mode.

    Well, it took until Python 3.0 until Python enforced rules that
ensured that the indentation the user sees is the same indentation the
compiler sees.  We finally have a solution that allows both tabs and
spaces but disallows the situations which are ambiguous.  Until
Python 3.0 is fully deployed, there are situations when you need an insane
level of tab/space visibility.  Blame Python, not EMACS.

				John Nagle


From nagle at animats.com  Sat Aug 15 15:34:15 2009
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 12:34:15 -0700
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
In-Reply-To: 
References: <24980842.post@talk.nabble.com>
	
Message-ID: <4a870cc7$0$1674$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:
> On Saturday 15 August 2009 03:25:45 Dr. Phillip M. Feldman wrote:

> And while you are about it, you may as well teach them that it is much better 
> to do a multiplication than a division.

    Actually, division speed hasn't been much of an issue in years.  Arithmetic
has been faster than memory access since CPUs went superscalar.  In CPython,
with all the interpreter overhead, you'll probably never notice the difference.

    I'd thought "xrange" had already been obsoleted, and hadn't realized the
2.3 - 2.6 versions of CPython were still doing "range" the hard way, not
as a generator.

					John Nagle


From alan.isaac at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 15:49:35 2009
From: alan.isaac at gmail.com (Alan G Isaac)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 19:49:35 GMT
Subject: random.gauss vs. random.normalvariate
Message-ID: 

Quoting http://docs.python.org/3.1/library/random.html#random.gauss:
    Gaussian distribution. mu is the mean, and sigma is the
    standard deviation. This is slightly faster than the
    normalvariate() function defined below.

So since both are offered and gauss is faster, I assume it
must have some offsetting disadvantage.  What is it?

Thank you,
Alan Isaac



From roy at panix.com  Sat Aug 15 16:01:25 2009
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 16:01:25 -0400
Subject: getting the fractional part of a real?
References: 
	
	<4a8704ca$0$2292$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>
Message-ID: 

In article <4a8704ca$0$2292$91cee783 at newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>,
 Gregor Lingl  wrote:

> Christian Heimes schrieb:
> > Roy Smith schrieb:
> >> What's the best way to get the fractional part of a real?  The two 
> >> ways I can see are r % 1 and r = int(r), but both seem a bit hokey.  
> >> Is there something more straight-forward that I'm missing, like 
> >> fraction(r)?
> > 
> >>>> import math
> >>>> math.modf(1.5)
> > (0.5, 1.0)
> > 
> > Christian
> 
> Or without the need to import something:
> 
>  >>> divmod(1.5, 1)
> (1.0, 0.5)
>  >>>
> 
> Gregor

Thanks.  I knew I had to be missing something obvious.

Regarding Mark Dickinson's question about what I want for negative reals, 
for the application I have in mind, r is guaranteed to be positive.


From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 16:01:43 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 13:01:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in  
	string literals]
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> 
	
	
	 
	
Message-ID: <5fcd454d-14b4-452b-91d3-938e9fa0bd18@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 14, 10:25?pm, Dave Angel  wrote:

> Benjamin Kaplan wrote:

> > On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Douglas Alan wrote:

> >> P.S. Overloading "left shift" to mean "output" does indeed seem a bit
> >> sketchy, but in 15 years of C++ programming, I've never seen it cause
> >> any confusion or bugs.

> > The only reason it hasn't is because people use it in "Hello World". I bet
> > some newbie C++ programmers get confused the first time they see << used to
> > shift.

People typically get confused by a *lot* of things when they learn a
new language. I think the better metric is how people fare with a
language feature once they've grown accustomed to the language, and
how long it takes them to acquire this familiarity.

> Actually, I've seen it cause confusion, because of operator precedence. ?
> The logical shift operators have a fairly high level priority, so
> sometimes you need parentheses that aren't obvious. ?Fortunately, most
> of those cases make compile errors.

I've been programming in C++ so long that for me, if there's any
confusion, it's the other way around. I see "<<" or ">>" and I think I/
O. I don't immediately think shifting. Fortunately, shifting is a
pretty rare operation to actually use, which is perhaps why C++
reclaimed it for I/O.

On the other hand, you are right that the precedence of "<<" is messed
up for I/O. I've never seen a real-world case where this causes a bug
in C++ code, because the static type-checker always seems to catch the
error. In a dynamically typed language, this would be a much more
serious problem.

|>ouglas

P.S. I find it strange, however, that anyone who is not okay with
"abusing" operator overloading in this manner, wouldn't also take
umbrage at Python's overloading of "+" to work with strings and lists,
etc. Numerical addition and sequence concatenation have entirely
different semantics.


From bouncyinc at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 16:14:17 2009
From: bouncyinc at gmail.com (John Haggerty)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 14:14:17 -0600
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in 
	string literals]
In-Reply-To: <02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

I guess the problem is---does it actually matter?

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 10:11 AM, Steven D'Aprano <
steve at remove-this-cybersource.com.au> wrote:

> On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 07:07:31 -0700, Aahz wrote:
>
> > "I saw `cout' being shifted "Hello world" times to the left and stopped
> > right there."  --Steve Gonedes
>
> Assuming that's something real, and not invented for humour, I presume
> that's describing something possible in C++. Am I correct? What the hell
> would it actually do???
>
>
> --
> Steven
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From wgwinder at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 16:17:02 2009
From: wgwinder at gmail.com (wgw)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 13:17:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: PyQt4.__file__ gives PyQt4/__init__.py as value
Message-ID: <0b3b6163-3fb3-4b1b-9605-bf899f65b9e9@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

I don't understand why the __file__ value in my installation of PyQt
would not give a proper, full path.

I'm guessing that I did not install pyqt properly (I'm on Ubuntu
Hardy, trying to install QT4.5), but before redoing the install, I
want to see if there is a quicker fix.

Also, though PyQt4/ is in the site-packages directory, and loads
properly into the interactive environment. Yolk does not list it. ???

Something strange here!

Any suggestions?


From metolone+gmane at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 16:22:39 2009
From: metolone+gmane at gmail.com (Mark Tolonen)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 13:22:39 -0700
Subject: Splitting a string into substrings of equal size
References: <4a85ffe2$0$24643$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<4a87036a$0$2292$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>
Message-ID: 


"Gregor Lingl"  wrote in message 
news:4a87036a$0$2292$91cee783 at newsreader02.highway.telekom.at...
> Emile van Sebille schrieb:
>> On 8/14/2009 5:22 PM candide said...
> ...
>>> What is the pythonic way to do this ?
>>
>> I like list comps...
>>
>>  >>> jj = '1234567890123456789'
>>  >>> ",".join([jj[ii:ii+3] for ii in range(0,len(jj),3)])
>> '123,456,789,012,345,678,9'
>>  >>>
>>
>> Emile
>>
>
> Less beautiful but more correct:
>
> >>> ",".join([jj[max(ii-3,0):ii] for ii in
>                              range(len(jj)%3,len(jj)+3,3)])
> '1,234,567,890,123,456,789'
>
> Gregor

Is it?

>>> jj = '234567890123456789'
>>> ",".join([jj[max(ii-3,0):ii] for ii in range(len(jj)%3,len(jj)+3,3)])
',234,567,890,123,456,789'

At least one other solution in this thread had the same problem.

-Mark




From bouncyinc at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 16:23:26 2009
From: bouncyinc at gmail.com (John Haggerty)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 14:23:26 -0600
Subject: redoing libgmail interface to "smtplib" blah?
Message-ID: 

The following program is theoretically supposed to use a supported library.
Issues have come up where the library is not working and now another
interface is being requierd to be used.

At this point I'm looking at just changing the send commands but don't feel
confident in doing so. Wondering specifically what would have to be changed
to what.

Thanks for your time :)

#!/usr/bin/env python
#
# ogss -- SMS Shell through Gmail and libgmail
#
# Version 0.2
#
# Author: btoews at mastahyeti.com
#
# License: GPL 2.0
#
# NOTE:
#   You should ensure you are permitted to use this script before using it
#   to access Google's Gmail servers.
#
def main(argv):
    print "Starting ogss"

    logfile = os.path.join(os.environ["HOME"],"ogss.log")
    print "Logfile at:"+logfile
    execd = []
    #Checking to see if the logfile already exists
    #if it doesn't we create it.
    if not os.path.exists(logfile):
        print "Creating log file"
        try:
            open(logfile,"w").close()
        except:
            print "Failed to open create log file. Check permissions"
            exit()
    #Opening log file for reading and parseing its contents into a list
    #Must do this to ensure that we dont execute old commands
    print "Opening log file for reading"
    try:
        r = open(logfile,"r")
        for line in r:
            eid = line.split("~")
            if len(eid)>=2:
                execd.append(int(eid[0]))
        r.close()
    except:
        print "Failed to open or read log file. Check permissions"
        exit()

    clist = [["3 River Wireless","@sms.3rivers.net"],["7-11 Speakout","@
cingularme.com"],["Airtel (Karnataka","India)Alaska Communications
Systems"],["Alltel Wireless","@message.alltel.com"],["AT&T Wireless","@
txt.att.net"],["Bell Mobility (Canada)","@txt.bell.ca"],["Boost Mobile","@
myboostmobile.com"],["Cellular One
(Dobson)","@mobile.celloneusa.com"],["Cingular
(Postpaid)","@cingularme.com"],["Centennial
Wireless","@cwemail.com"],["Cingular
(GoPhone prepaid)","@cingularme.com"],["Claro (Nicaragua)","@
ideasclaro-ca.com"],["Comcel","@comcel.com.co"],["Cricket","@
sms.mycricket.com"],["CTI","@sms.ctimovil.com.ar"],["Emtel (Mauritius)","@
emtelworld.net"],["Fido (Canada)","@fido.ca"],["General Communications
Inc.","@msg.gci.net"],["Globalstar","@msg.globalstarusa.com"],["Helio","@
myhelio.com"],["Illinois Valley Cellular","@ivctext.com"],["i wireless",".
iws at iwspcs.net"],["Meteor (Ireland)","@sms.mymeteor.ie"],["Mero Mobile
(Nepal)","@sms.spicenepal.com"],["MetroPCS","@mymetropcs.com"],["Movicom","@
movimensaje.com.ar"],["Mobitel (Sri Lanka)","@sms.mobitel.lk"],["Movistar
(Colombia)","@movistar.com.co"],["MTN (South Africa)","@sms.co.za"],["MTS
(Canada)","@text.mtsmobility.com"],["Nextel
(Argentina)","@nextel.net.ar"],["Orange
(Poland)","@orange.pl"],["Personal (Argentina)","@personal-net.com.ar"],["Plus
GSM (Poland)","@text.plusgsm.pl"],["President\s Choice (Canada)","@
txt.bell.ca"],["Qwest","@qwestmp.com"],["Rogers
(Canada)","@pcs.rogers.com"],["Sasktel
(Canada)","@sms.sasktel.com"],["Setar Mobile email (Aruba)","@mas.aw"],["Solo
Mobile","@txt.bell.ca"],["Sprint (PCS)","@messaging.sprintpcs.com"],["Sprint
(Nextel)","@page.nextel.com"],["Suncom","@tms.suncom.com"],["T-Mobile","@
tmomail.net"],["T-Mobile (Austria)","@sms.t-mobile.at"],["Telus Mobility
(Canada)","@msg.telus.com"],["Thumb Cellular","@sms.thumbcellular.com"],["Tigo
(Formerly Ola)","@sms.tigo.com.co"],["Unicel","@utext.com"],["US
Cellular","@email.uscc.net"],["Verizon","@vtext.com"],["Virgin Mobile
(Canada)","@vmobile.ca"],["Virgin Mobile (USA)","@vmobl.com"],["YCC","@
sms.ycc.ru"],["Orange (UK)","@orange.net"],["Cincinnati Bell Wireless","@
gocbw.com"],["T-Mobile Germany","@t-mobile-sms.de"],["Vodafone Germany","@
vodafone-sms.de"],["E-Plus","@smsmail.eplus.de"]]

    print "Parsing user input"
    if len(argv)<4:
        if len(argv) == 2:
            if argv[1] == "-c":
                counter = 0
                for car in clist:
                    print str(counter) + "--" + car[0]
                    counter += 1
                exit()
        else:
            print
"------Useage---------------------------------------------------------------\n\r------Start
Service --- ogss.py USERNAME PASSWORD CELL-NUMBER
CARRIER-NUMBER\n\r------List carriers --- ogss.py -c"
            print "------Useage from
phone----------------------------------------------------\n\r------Ogss
COMMAND"
            exit()
    username   = argv[1]
    password   = argv[2]
    number     = argv[3]
    carrier     = clist[int(argv[4])]
    cell_email = number+carrier[1]

    print "Connecting to Gmail"
    account = libgmail.GmailAccount(username,password)
    print "Logging into Gmail"
    account.login()

    print "Opening log file for writing"
    try:
        w = open(logfile,"a")
    except:
        print "Failed to open log file. Check permissions."
        exit()

    #If the logfile is empty (if this is the first use) we want to
    #send instructions to the users cell phone.
    #if len(execd) < 1:
    #    instructions = libgmail.GmailComposedMessage(cell_email,"OGSS
Instructions","To use OGSS reply to this message with an SMS starting with
\"Ogss\". Whatever follows \"Ogss\" will be executed on your computer")
    #    account.sendMessage(instructions)
    print "Listening for commands"
    while True:
        try:
            searchResult =
account.getMessagesByQuery("from:"+cell_email,True)
            maxid = 0
            if len(searchResult)>0:
                #Here we search through the inbox to find the most recent
message sent
                #from the specified phone number
                for thread in searchResult:
                    for message in thread:
                        if cell_email == message.sender:
                            if int(message.id,16)>maxid:
                                maxid = int(message.id,16)
                                maxmessage = message
                #Removeing all the garbage from the message to find the
command
                #TODO find a neater way of parsing message
                ogsssplit = maxmessage.source.split("Ogss")
                spansplit = ogsssplit[len(ogsssplit)-1].split("")
                command = spansplit[0]
                command = command.split()
                #If the id of the most recent message does not already exist
in
                #the log file, run the command
                if execd.count(int(maxmessage.id,16))==0:
                    print "Processing Command"
                    cresult = Popen(command,stdout=PIPE)
                    body = cresult.stdout.read()
                    tosend =
libgmail.GmailComposedMessage(cell_email,"STDOUT","\n"+body)
                    print "Seding back results"
                    account.sendMessage(tosend)
                    print "Logging..."
                    execd.append(int(maxmessage.id,16))
                    towrite = str(int(maxmessage.id,16))+"~ "
                    for arg in command:
                        towrite += arg+" "
                    w.write(towrite+"\n")
                    print "Listening for commands"
            #TODO add ability to choose sleep time
            time.sleep(2)
        except (KeyboardInterrupt, SystemExit):
            w.close()
            print "Exiting..."
            exit()
if __name__ == "__main__":
    import os,time,sys,libgmail
    from subprocess import Popen,PIPE
    main(sys.argv)
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From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 16:26:06 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 13:26:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: random.gauss vs. random.normalvariate
References: 
Message-ID: <89df98da-cdaf-4422-9bc0-c0b46ebefcda@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 15, 12:49?pm, Alan G Isaac  wrote:
> Quotinghttp://docs.python.org/3.1/library/random.html#random.gauss:
> ? ? Gaussian distribution. mu is the mean, and sigma is the
> ? ? standard deviation. This is slightly faster than the
> ? ? normalvariate() function defined below.
>
> So since both are offered and gauss is faster, I assume it
> must have some offsetting disadvantage. ?What is it?

random.gauss is not thread safe.

I'm kind of surprised the html docs don't mention this; the docstring
does.


Carl Banks


From bouncyinc at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 16:34:36 2009
From: bouncyinc at gmail.com (John Haggerty)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 14:34:36 -0600
Subject: random.gauss vs. random.normalvariate
In-Reply-To: <89df98da-cdaf-4422-9bc0-c0b46ebefcda@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<89df98da-cdaf-4422-9bc0-c0b46ebefcda@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

What does the term "thread safe" mean exactly. I never had to program with
"threads" before

On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 2:26 PM, Carl Banks wrote:

> On Aug 15, 12:49 pm, Alan G Isaac  wrote:
> > Quotinghttp://docs.python.org/3.1/library/random.html#random.gauss:
> >     Gaussian distribution. mu is the mean, and sigma is the
> >     standard deviation. This is slightly faster than the
> >     normalvariate() function defined below.
> >
> > So since both are offered and gauss is faster, I assume it
> > must have some offsetting disadvantage.  What is it?
>
> random.gauss is not thread safe.
>
> I'm kind of surprised the html docs don't mention this; the docstring
> does.
>
>
> Carl Banks
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From stef.mientki at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 16:50:39 2009
From: stef.mientki at gmail.com (Stef Mientki)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 22:50:39 +0200
Subject: Why is "unpacking" of tuples only allowed when there's 1 tupple ?
Message-ID: <4A871F9F.3040904@gmail.com>

hello,

I'm not sure if  "unpacking" is the right term
but if I have a tuple of 2 arrays,
I can either call a function with:

          Space_State = tf2ss ( filt[0], filt[1] )

or with
          Space_State = tf2ss ( *filt )

Now if I've to call a function with more parameters,
why can't I use (Polynome is again a tuple of 2 arrays) :
(which already gives an error in the IDE)

          Respons = signal.lfilter ( *Polynome, Signal )

and thus I've to use:

          Respons = signal.lfilter ( Polynome[0], Polynome[1], Signal )


I use Python 2.5.2

thanks,
Stef Mientki


From alan.isaac at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 16:54:37 2009
From: alan.isaac at gmail.com (Alan G Isaac)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 20:54:37 GMT
Subject: random.gauss vs. random.normalvariate
In-Reply-To: <89df98da-cdaf-4422-9bc0-c0b46ebefcda@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<89df98da-cdaf-4422-9bc0-c0b46ebefcda@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

> On Aug 15, 12:49 pm, Alan G Isaac  wrote:
>> Quotinghttp://docs.python.org/3.1/library/random.html#random.gauss:
>>     Gaussian distribution. mu is the mean, and sigma is the
>>     standard deviation. This is slightly faster than the
>>     normalvariate() function defined below.
>>
>> So since both are offered and gauss is faster, I assume it
>> must have some offsetting disadvantage.  What is it?



On 8/15/2009 4:26 PM Carl Banks apparently wrote:
> random.gauss is not thread safe.
> 
> I'm kind of surprised the html docs don't mention this; the docstring
> does.



Thank you,
Alan Isaac


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Sat Aug 15 17:11:43 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 23:11:43 +0200
Subject: Why is "unpacking" of tuples only allowed when there's 1 tupple ?
In-Reply-To: <4A871F9F.3040904@gmail.com>
References: <4A871F9F.3040904@gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

Dnia 15-08-2009 o 22:50:39 Stef Mientki   
napisa?(a):

> hello,
>
> I'm not sure if  "unpacking" is the right term
> but if I have a tuple of 2 arrays,
> I can either call a function with:
>
>           Space_State = tf2ss ( filt[0], filt[1] )
>
> or with
>           Space_State = tf2ss ( *filt )
>
> Now if I've to call a function with more parameters,
> why can't I use (Polynome is again a tuple of 2 arrays) :
> (which already gives an error in the IDE)
>
>           Respons = signal.lfilter ( *Polynome, Signal )
>
> and thus I've to use:
>
>           Respons = signal.lfilter ( Polynome[0], Polynome[1], Signal )

The content of that tuple or list (filt/Polynome here) doesn't matter.
Simply, when calling function, you can't put positional (non-keyword)
argument after *something.

  >>> def nic(*args, **kwargs): pass
  ...
  >>> nic(*[1,2,3], 4)
    File "", line 1
  SyntaxError: only named arguments may follow *expression


That'd be ok:

  Respons = signal.lfilter(*Polynome, sig=Signal)  # if this method can
                                                   # receive argument
                                                   # 'sig' after more
                                                   # than len(Polynome)
                                                   # of arguments

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Aug 15 17:18:24 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 22:18:24 +0100
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
In-Reply-To: <4a870cc7$0$1674$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
References: <24980842.post@talk.nabble.com>	
	<4a870cc7$0$1674$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <4A872620.1070808@mrabarnett.plus.com>

John Nagle wrote:
> Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:
>> On Saturday 15 August 2009 03:25:45 Dr. Phillip M. Feldman wrote:
> 
>> And while you are about it, you may as well teach them that it is much 
>> better to do a multiplication than a division.
> 
>    Actually, division speed hasn't been much of an issue in years.  
> Arithmetic
> has been faster than memory access since CPUs went superscalar.  In 
> CPython,
> with all the interpreter overhead, you'll probably never notice the 
> difference.
> 
>    I'd thought "xrange" had already been obsoleted, and hadn't realized the
> 2.3 - 2.6 versions of CPython were still doing "range" the hard way, not
> as a generator.
> 
It would've broken some existing code, hence it was left until Python 3.


From lists at cheimes.de  Sat Aug 15 17:19:42 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 23:19:42 +0200
Subject: PyQt4.__file__ gives PyQt4/__init__.py as value
In-Reply-To: <0b3b6163-3fb3-4b1b-9605-bf899f65b9e9@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
References: <0b3b6163-3fb3-4b1b-9605-bf899f65b9e9@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A87266E.6080609@cheimes.de>

wgw wrote:
> I don't understand why the __file__ value in my installation of PyQt
> would not give a proper, full path.
> 
> I'm guessing that I did not install pyqt properly (I'm on Ubuntu
> Hardy, trying to install QT4.5), but before redoing the install, I
> want to see if there is a quicker fix.

Some versions of Debian and Ubuntu used to compile Python files with a 
relative path. Try this:

python2.5 /usr/lib/python2.5/compileall.py -f /usr/lib/python2.5
python2.5 -o /usr/lib/python2.5/compileall.py -f /usr/lib/python2.5

Christian


From lists at cheimes.de  Sat Aug 15 17:19:42 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 23:19:42 +0200
Subject: PyQt4.__file__ gives PyQt4/__init__.py as value
In-Reply-To: <0b3b6163-3fb3-4b1b-9605-bf899f65b9e9@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
References: <0b3b6163-3fb3-4b1b-9605-bf899f65b9e9@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A87266E.6080609@cheimes.de>

wgw wrote:
> I don't understand why the __file__ value in my installation of PyQt
> would not give a proper, full path.
> 
> I'm guessing that I did not install pyqt properly (I'm on Ubuntu
> Hardy, trying to install QT4.5), but before redoing the install, I
> want to see if there is a quicker fix.

Some versions of Debian and Ubuntu used to compile Python files with a 
relative path. Try this:

python2.5 /usr/lib/python2.5/compileall.py -f /usr/lib/python2.5
python2.5 -o /usr/lib/python2.5/compileall.py -f /usr/lib/python2.5

Christian



From stef.mientki at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 17:19:53 2009
From: stef.mientki at gmail.com (Stef Mientki)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 23:19:53 +0200
Subject: Why is "unpacking" of tuples only allowed when there's 1 tupple ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4A871F9F.3040904@gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <4A872679.4060300@gmail.com>

thanks Jan,
for the clear explanation.
cheers,
Stef

Jan Kaliszewski wrote:
> Dnia 15-08-2009 o 22:50:39 Stef Mientki  
> napisa?(a):
>
>> hello,
>>
>> I'm not sure if  "unpacking" is the right term
>> but if I have a tuple of 2 arrays,
>> I can either call a function with:
>>
>>           Space_State = tf2ss ( filt[0], filt[1] )
>>
>> or with
>>           Space_State = tf2ss ( *filt )
>>
>> Now if I've to call a function with more parameters,
>> why can't I use (Polynome is again a tuple of 2 arrays) :
>> (which already gives an error in the IDE)
>>
>>           Respons = signal.lfilter ( *Polynome, Signal )
>>
>> and thus I've to use:
>>
>>           Respons = signal.lfilter ( Polynome[0], Polynome[1], Signal )
>
> The content of that tuple or list (filt/Polynome here) doesn't matter.
> Simply, when calling function, you can't put positional (non-keyword)
> argument after *something.
>
>  >>> def nic(*args, **kwargs): pass
>  ...
>  >>> nic(*[1,2,3], 4)
>    File "", line 1
>  SyntaxError: only named arguments may follow *expression
>
>
> That'd be ok:
>
>  Respons = signal.lfilter(*Polynome, sig=Signal)  # if this method can
>                                                   # receive argument
>                                                   # 'sig' after more
>                                                   # than len(Polynome)
>                                                   # of arguments
>



From jasevv at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 17:32:59 2009
From: jasevv at gmail.com (Jaseem)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 14:32:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python or ActionScript 3.0
Message-ID: <0e14ae96-e9f5-41ff-8c2d-72c4ef624345@18g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

Is python similar to actionscript 3.0
Which is better to create a rich gui internet application?
Is it AS 3.0 with flex or python with its GUI libs?

Is python in demand?
Heard that python is similar to lisp. But both python and AS 3.0 is
almost identical. Which is more similar to lisp are powerful?

Thank You.


From rylesny at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 17:54:27 2009
From: rylesny at gmail.com (ryles)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 14:54:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Splitting a string into substrings of equal size
References: <4a85ffe2$0$24643$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <064c16a8-8a5a-4764-976f-1ee5a46d82bb@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 14, 8:22?pm, candide  wrote:
> Suppose you need to split a string into substrings of a given size (except
> possibly the last substring). I make the hypothesis the first slice is at the
> end of the string.
> A typical example is provided by formatting a decimal string with thousands
> separator.
>
> What is the pythonic way to do this ?
>
> For my part, i reach to this rather complicated code:
>
> # ----------------------
>
> def comaSep(z,k=3, sep=','):
> ? ? z=z[::-1]
> ? ? x=[z[k*i:k*(i+1)][::-1] for i in range(1+(len(z)-1)/k)][::-1]
> ? ? return sep.join(x)
>
> # Test
> for z in ["75096042068045", "509", "12024", "7", "2009"]:
> ? ? print z+" --> ", comaSep(z)
>
> # ----------------------
>
> outputting :
>
> 75096042068045 --> ?75,096,042,068,045
> 509 --> ?509
> 12024 --> ?12,024
> 7 --> ?7
> 2009 --> ?2,009
>
> Thanks

py> s='1234567'
py> ','.join(_[::-1] for _ in re.findall('.{1,3}',s[::-1])[::-1])
'1,234,567'
py> # j/k ;)


From wgwinder at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 17:58:48 2009
From: wgwinder at gmail.com (wgw)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 14:58:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: PyQt4.__file__ gives PyQt4/__init__.py as value
References: <0b3b6163-3fb3-4b1b-9605-bf899f65b9e9@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <2d6a2d94-c1fb-4cd4-a21b-5fd8cf8ee484@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 15, 2:19?pm, Christian Heimes  wrote:
> wgw wrote:
> > I don't understand why the __file__ value in my installation of PyQt
> > would not give a proper, full path.
>
> > I'm guessing that I did not install pyqt properly (I'm on Ubuntu
> > Hardy, trying to install QT4.5), but before redoing the install, I
> > want to see if there is a quicker fix.
>
> Some versions of Debian and Ubuntu used to compile Python files with a
> relative path. Try this:
>
> python2.5 /usr/lib/python2.5/compileall.py -f /usr/lib/python2.5
> python2.5 -o /usr/lib/python2.5/compileall.py -f /usr/lib/python2.5
>
> Christian

python2.5 /usr/lib/python2.5/compileall.py -f /usr/lib/python2.5

didn't change anything, and there is no -o option (-O exists, but
would that be useful?)

thanks!


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Aug 15 18:06:22 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 23:06:22 +0100
Subject: Splitting a string into substrings of equal size
In-Reply-To: <064c16a8-8a5a-4764-976f-1ee5a46d82bb@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
References: <4a85ffe2$0$24643$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<064c16a8-8a5a-4764-976f-1ee5a46d82bb@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A87315E.7040603@mrabarnett.plus.com>

ryles wrote:
> On Aug 14, 8:22 pm, candide  wrote:
>> Suppose you need to split a string into substrings of a given size (except
>> possibly the last substring). I make the hypothesis the first slice is at the
>> end of the string.
>> A typical example is provided by formatting a decimal string with thousands
>> separator.
>>
>> What is the pythonic way to do this ?
>>
>> For my part, i reach to this rather complicated code:
>>
>> # ----------------------
>>
>> def comaSep(z,k=3, sep=','):
>>     z=z[::-1]
>>     x=[z[k*i:k*(i+1)][::-1] for i in range(1+(len(z)-1)/k)][::-1]
>>     return sep.join(x)
>>
>> # Test
>> for z in ["75096042068045", "509", "12024", "7", "2009"]:
>>     print z+" --> ", comaSep(z)
>>
>> # ----------------------
>>
>> outputting :
>>
>> 75096042068045 -->  75,096,042,068,045
>> 509 -->  509
>> 12024 -->  12,024
>> 7 -->  7
>> 2009 -->  2,009
>>
>> Thanks
> 
> py> s='1234567'
> py> ','.join(_[::-1] for _ in re.findall('.{1,3}',s[::-1])[::-1])
> '1,234,567'
> py> # j/k ;)

If you're going to use re, then:

 >>> for z in ["75096042068045", "509", "12024", "7", "2009"]:
	print re.sub(r"(?<=.)(?=(?:...)+$)", ",", z)

	
75,096,042,068,045
509
12,024
7
2,009


From Brian.Mingus at colorado.edu  Sat Aug 15 18:11:08 2009
From: Brian.Mingus at colorado.edu (Brian)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 16:11:08 -0600
Subject: Splitting a string into substrings of equal size
In-Reply-To: <4A87315E.7040603@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <4a85ffe2$0$24643$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<064c16a8-8a5a-4764-976f-1ee5a46d82bb@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<4A87315E.7040603@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <9839a05c0908151511w38fa4d7eu9926024e1472923f@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 4:06 PM, MRAB  wrote:

> ryles wrote:
>
>> On Aug 14, 8:22 pm, candide  wrote:
>>
>>> Suppose you need to split a string into substrings of a given size
>>> (except
>>> possibly the last substring). I make the hypothesis the first slice is at
>>> the
>>> end of the string.
>>> A typical example is provided by formatting a decimal string with
>>> thousands
>>> separator.
>>>
>>> What is the pythonic way to do this ?
>>>
>>> For my part, i reach to this rather complicated code:
>>>
>>> # ----------------------
>>>
>>> def comaSep(z,k=3, sep=','):
>>>    z=z[::-1]
>>>    x=[z[k*i:k*(i+1)][::-1] for i in range(1+(len(z)-1)/k)][::-1]
>>>    return sep.join(x)
>>>
>>> # Test
>>> for z in ["75096042068045", "509", "12024", "7", "2009"]:
>>>    print z+" --> ", comaSep(z)
>>>
>>> # ----------------------
>>>
>>> outputting :
>>>
>>> 75096042068045 -->  75,096,042,068,045
>>> 509 -->  509
>>> 12024 -->  12,024
>>> 7 -->  7
>>> 2009 -->  2,009
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>
>> py> s='1234567'
>> py> ','.join(_[::-1] for _ in re.findall('.{1,3}',s[::-1])[::-1])
>> '1,234,567'
>> py> # j/k ;)
>>
>
> If you're going to use re, then:
>
> >>> for z in ["75096042068045", "509", "12024", "7", "2009"]:
>        print re.sub(r"(?<=.)(?=(?:...)+$)", ",", z)
>
>
> 75,096,042,068,045
> 509
> 12,024
> 7
> 2,009
>

Can you please break down this regex?
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From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Aug 15 18:28:09 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 23:28:09 +0100
Subject: Splitting a string into substrings of equal size
In-Reply-To: <9839a05c0908151511w38fa4d7eu9926024e1472923f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4a85ffe2$0$24643$426a34cc@news.free.fr>	<064c16a8-8a5a-4764-976f-1ee5a46d82bb@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>	<4A87315E.7040603@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<9839a05c0908151511w38fa4d7eu9926024e1472923f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A873679.9010902@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Brian wrote:
> 
> 
> On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 4:06 PM, MRAB  > wrote:
> 
>     ryles wrote:
> 
>         On Aug 14, 8:22 pm, candide  wrote:
> 
>             Suppose you need to split a string into substrings of a
>             given size (except
>             possibly the last substring). I make the hypothesis the
>             first slice is at the
>             end of the string.
>             A typical example is provided by formatting a decimal string
>             with thousands
>             separator.
> 
>             What is the pythonic way to do this ?
> 
>             For my part, i reach to this rather complicated code:
> 
>             # ----------------------
> 
>             def comaSep(z,k=3, sep=','):
>                z=z[::-1]
>                x=[z[k*i:k*(i+1)][::-1] for i in range(1+(len(z)-1)/k)][::-1]
>                return sep.join(x)
> 
>             # Test
>             for z in ["75096042068045", "509", "12024", "7", "2009"]:
>                print z+" --> ", comaSep(z)
> 
>             # ----------------------
> 
>             outputting :
> 
>             75096042068045 -->  75,096,042,068,045
>             509 -->  509
>             12024 -->  12,024
>             7 -->  7
>             2009 -->  2,009
> 
>             Thanks
> 
> 
>         py> s='1234567'
>         py> ','.join(_[::-1] for _ in re.findall('.{1,3}',s[::-1])[::-1])
>         '1,234,567'
>         py> # j/k ;)
> 
> 
>     If you're going to use re, then:
> 
> 
>      >>> for z in ["75096042068045", "509", "12024", "7", "2009"]:
>            print re.sub(r"(?<=.)(?=(?:...)+$)", ",", z)
> 
> 
>            
>     75,096,042,068,045
>     509
>     12,024
>     7
>     2,009
> 
> 
> Can you please break down this regex?
> 
The call replaces a zero-width match with a comma, ie inserts a comma,
if certain conditions are met:

"(?<=.)"
     Look behind for 1 character. There must be at least one previous
character. This ensures that a comma is never inserted at the start of
the string. I could also have used "(?
	<064c16a8-8a5a-4764-976f-1ee5a46d82bb@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<4A87315E.7040603@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<9839a05c0908151511w38fa4d7eu9926024e1472923f@mail.gmail.com> 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 15, 6:28?pm, MRAB  wrote:

> > ? ? ?>>> for z in ["75096042068045", "509", "12024", "7", "2009"]:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ?print re.sub(r"(?<=.)(?=(?:...)+$)", ",", z)
>
> > ? ? 75,096,042,068,045
> > ? ? 509
> > ? ? 12,024
> > ? ? 7
> > ? ? 2,009
>
> The call replaces a zero-width match with a comma, ie inserts a comma,
> if certain conditions are met:
>
> "(?<=.)"
> ? ? ?Look behind for 1 character. There must be at least one previous
> character. This ensures that a comma is never inserted at the start of
> the string. I could also have used "(? whether the first character is a "-". That's left as an exercise for the
> reader. :-)
>
> "(?=(?:...)+$)"
> ? ? ?Look ahead for a multiple of 3 characters, followed by the end of
> the string.

Wow, well done. An exceptional recipe from Python's unofficial regex
guru. And thanks for sharing the explanation.


From paul.mike25 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 20:02:36 2009
From: paul.mike25 at gmail.com (Mike Paul)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 17:02:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python- javascript
Message-ID: <985d635f-5784-40a7-a2bb-b76900c200d9@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

I'm trying to scrap a dynamic page with lot of javascript in it.
Inorder to get all the data from the page i need to access the
javascript. But i've no idea how to do it.

Say I'm scraping some site htttp://www.xyz.com/xyz

request=urllib2.Request("htttp://www.xyz.com/xyz")
response=urllib2.urlopen(request)
data=response.read()


So i get all the data on the initial page. Now i need to access the
javascript on this page to get additional details. I've heard someone
telling me to use spidermonkey. But no idea  on how to send javscript
as request and get the response. How hsuld i be sending the javascript
request as ? how can it be sent?

This is the script I need to access.

Click this to view more items

Can anyone tell me how can i do it very clearly. I've been breaking my
head into this for the past few days with no progress.


Thanks


From paul.mike25 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 20:09:15 2009
From: paul.mike25 at gmail.com (Mike Paul)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 19:09:15 -0500
Subject: Python - scraping - javascript
Message-ID: <26ee78500908151709v6a159a95wde98b88f7d2e44bf@mail.gmail.com>

I'm trying to scrap a dynamic page with lot of javascript in it. Inorder to
get all the data from the page i need to access the javascript. But i've no
idea how to do it.

Say I'm scraping some site htttp://www.xyz.com/xyz

request=urllib2.Request("htttp://www.xyz.com/xyz")
response=urllib2.urlopen(request)
data=response.read()


So i get all the data on the initial page. Now i need to access the
javascript on this page to get additional details. I've heard someone
telling me to use spidermonkey. But no idea on how to send javscript as
request and get the response. How hsuld i be sending the javascript request
as ? how can it be sent?

This is the script I need to access.

Click this to view more items

Can anyone tell me how can i do it very clearly. I've been breaking my head
into this for the past few days with no progress.


Thanks
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From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 20:57:28 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 17:57:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Unrecognized escape sequences in string literals
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<0008e7c1$0$2880$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<3611ca55-79a6-4336-9041-07d0893789f7@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
	<0447e8a2-508d-45b2-8d15-da0cc2a56b5f@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	
	<494d80f1-0b47-468c-bdd9-7a087f6d915c@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	
	<7877b03a-09da-4836-804c-502b6f78003c@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<02933e60$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<2cdc3f88-1952-4ca2-9754-5b7583fb5fd8@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<0295958b$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4e15b3a9-b3ec-41f0-bb35-15ea5da7c9db@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 14, 1:55?pm, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:

> Douglas, you and I clearly have a difference of opinion on
> this. Neither of us have provided even the tiniest amount
> of objective, replicable, reliable data on the
> error-proneness of the C++ approach versus that of
> Python. The supposed superiority of the C++ approach is
> entirely subjective and based on personal opinion instead
> of quantitative facts.

Alas, this is true for nearly any engineering methodology or
philosophy, which is why, I suppose, Perl, for instance,
still has its proponents. It's virtually impossible to prove
any thesis, and these things only get decided by endless
debate that rages across decades.

> I prefer languages that permit anything that isn't
> explicitly forbidden, so I'm happy that Python treats
> non-special escape sequences as valid,

I don't really understand what you mean by this. If Python
were to declare that "unrecognized escape sequences" were
forbidden, then they would be "explicitly forbidden". Would
you then be happy?

If not, why are you not upset that Python won't let me do

   [3, 4, 5] + 2

Some other programming languages I've used certainly do.

> and your attempts to convince me that this goes against
> the Zen have entirely failed to convince me. As I've done
> before, I will admit that one consequence of this design
> is that it makes it hard to introduce new escape sequences
> to Python. Given that it's vanishingly rare to want to do
> so,

I'm not so convinced of that in the days of Unicode. If I
see, backslash, and then some Kanji character, what am I
supposed to make of that? For all I know, that Kanji
character might mean newline, and I'm seeing code for a
version of Python that was tweaked to be friendly to the
Japanese. And in the days where smart hand-held devices are
proliferating like crazy, there might be ever-more demand
for easy-to-use i/o that lets you control various aspects of
those devices.

|>ouglas


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Sat Aug 15 21:01:37 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 18:01:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python 2.6 still not giving memory back to the OS...
References:  
	<38581c40-b7ed-4dbf-a3af-33e1761ba7b0@r7g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <762603ba-0a4c-4504-94d9-34a8b1e3f9c3@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 16, 2:41?am, Mark Dickinson  wrote:
> and got the expected memory usage for my Python process, as
> displayed by top: ?memory usage went up to nearly 1Gb after
> each assignment to b, then dropped down to 19 Mb or so after
> each 'del b'. ?I get similar results under Python 2.5.
>
> So maybe there's something in xlrd that's hanging on to all
> that memory?

News to me, and news to guppy/heapy v0.1.9 -- unless the new Windows
support has some deficiencies -- after `del b` heapy can't find any
trace of the Book object and its contents.

As far as releasing memory back to the OS is concerned, I have dim
memories of *x systems where free() would return space to the OS if
the block was "large" and it was next to the "break" point ... this
effect could be what you are seeing.


From terry.yinzhe at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 21:04:29 2009
From: terry.yinzhe at gmail.com (Terry)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 18:04:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ignored test cases in unittest
Message-ID: 

Hi,

I have some 100s unittest cases with my python program. And sometimes,
I did quick-and-dirty work by ignoring some test cases by adding an
'x' (or something else) to the beginning of the case name.
As time pass by, it's very hard for me to find which test cases are
ignored.

It seemed the to me that python unittest module does not support the
counting of ignored test cases directly. Is there any ready solution
for this?

br, Terry


From roy at panix.com  Sat Aug 15 21:12:14 2009
From: roy at panix.com (Roy Smith)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 21:12:14 -0400
Subject: ignored test cases in unittest
References: 
Message-ID: 

In article 
,
 Terry  wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I have some 100s unittest cases with my python program. And sometimes,
> I did quick-and-dirty work by ignoring some test cases by adding an
> 'x' (or something else) to the beginning of the case name.
> As time pass by, it's very hard for me to find which test cases are
> ignored.

If you are consistent in how you do this (i.e. always add an "x" to the 
beginning of the name), it should be trivial to find them all.  I'm sure I 
could whip up some introspection based method, but it's easier and faster 
to just do "grep 'def.*xtest' *.py".


From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 21:29:13 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 18:29:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python or ActionScript 3.0
References: <0e14ae96-e9f5-41ff-8c2d-72c4ef624345@18g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8a14e744-eb6c-4ae2-9bb4-2e32fcb987ae@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 15, 5:32?pm, Jaseem  wrote:

> Is python similar to actionscript 3.0

For some very rough sense of "similar" it might be, but not really.

> Which is better to create a rich gui internet application?
> Is it AS 3.0 with flex or python with its GUI libs?

Python doesn't run in your typical web browser, but it is common to
use Python for doing the server-side programming, along with a Python-
based web development framework, such as Django.

You could use Jython to make a JVM applet that would run in a browser,
but JVM applets aren't very popular for a variety of reasons, and I
doubt the performance would be very good.

> Is python in demand?

Yes, it's a popular language.

> Heard that python is similar to lisp.

Kind of. Not any more so that JavaScript is, though, for instance.

> But both python and AS 3.0 is almost identical.

No, Python and ActionScript are not "almost identical".

> Which is more similar to lisp are powerful?

They both have their similarities and differences from Lisp. I think
it would be impossible to say which one is more similar to Lisp. In
general, Python is in my opinion more pleasant to program in than
ActionScript, but Python is not generally used for client-side browser
code.

I think the future of client-side browser programming is actually
JavaScript, not ActionScript, though that future may morph into one
that mostly uses JavaScript as a virtual machine. This is the approach
that Google Web Toolkit takes. It lets you write your client-side code
in Java, and that is then compiled into JavaScript.

|>ouglas





From narkewoody at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 21:52:47 2009
From: narkewoody at gmail.com (Steven Woody)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 09:52:47 +0800
Subject: OptionParser How to: prog  [options] [arguments]
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

Thanks for all you suggestions!
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From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 22:12:06 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 19:12:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python- javascript
References: <985d635f-5784-40a7-a2bb-b76900c200d9@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <54684273-6de7-470e-899e-64e0a191c7e3@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 15, 8:02?pm, Mike Paul  wrote:

> I'm trying to scrap a dynamic page with lot of javascript in it.
> Inorder to get all the data from the page i need to access the
> javascript. But i've no idea how to do it.

I'm not sure exactly what you are trying to do, but scraping websites
that use a lot of JavaScript are often very problematic. The last time
I did so, I had to write some pretty funky regular expressions to pick
data out of the JavaScript. Fortunately, the data was directly in the
JavaScript, rather than me having to reproduce the Ajax calling
chain.  If you need to do that, then you almost certainly want to use
a package designed for doing such things. One such package is
HtmlUnit. It is a "GUI-less browser" with a built-in JavaScript engine
that is design for such scraping tasks.

Unfortunately, you have to program it in Java, rather than Python.
(You might be able to use Jython instead of Java, but I don't know for
sure.)

|>ouglas


P.S. For scraping tasks, you probably want to use BeautifulSoup rather
than urllib2.




From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sat Aug 15 22:15:04 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 12:15:04 +1000
Subject: ignored test cases in unittest
References: 
Message-ID: <873a7so66v.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Terry  writes:

> It seemed the to me that python unittest module does not support the
> counting of ignored test cases directly. Is there any ready solution
> for this?

One solution I've seen involves:

* a custom exception class, ?TestSkipped?

* raising that exception at the top of test cases you want to
  temporarily skip

* a custom ?TestResult? class that knows about a ?skipped? result

* a custom reporter class that knows how you want to report that result

-- 
 \       ?A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of |
  `\                                           widths.? ?Steven Wright |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Aug 15 22:19:02 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 16 Aug 2009 02:19:02 GMT
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in  
	string literals]
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	
	
	<5fcd454d-14b4-452b-91d3-938e9fa0bd18@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <02975ce6$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 13:01:43 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:

> P.S. I find it strange, however, that anyone who is not okay with
> "abusing" operator overloading in this manner, wouldn't also take
> umbrage at Python's overloading of "+" to work with strings and lists,
> etc. Numerical addition and sequence concatenation have entirely
> different semantics.

Not to English speakers, where we frequently use 'add' to mean 
concatenate, append, insert, etc.:

"add this to the end of the list"
"add the prefix 'un-' to the beginning of the word to negate it"
"add your voice to the list of those calling for change"
"add your name and address to the visitor's book"

and even in-place modifications:

"after test audiences' luke-warm response, the studio added a completely 
different ending to the movie".


Personally, I would have preferred & for string and list concatenation, 
but that's entirely for subjective reasons.


-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Aug 15 22:22:38 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 16 Aug 2009 02:22:38 GMT
Subject: A Exhibition Of Tech Geekers Incompetence: Emacs whitespace-mode
References: <61ef4451-d6b6-493b-b4a0-1822a901ca8d@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<4a870a7b$0$1674$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <02975dbe$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 12:24:26 -0700, John Nagle wrote:

> fortunatus wrote:
>> On Aug 14, 1:01 pm, vippstar  wrote:
>>> Why would you fill your website with junk?
>> 
>> The OP made it clear:
>> 
>>> Just wanted to express some frustration with whitespace-mode.
> 
>     Well, it took until Python 3.0 until Python enforced rules that
> ensured that the indentation the user sees is the same indentation the
> compiler sees.  We finally have a solution that allows both tabs and
> spaces but disallows the situations which are ambiguous.  Until Python
> 3.0 is fully deployed, there are situations when you need an insane
> level of tab/space visibility.  Blame Python, not EMACS.

You know, there are situations outside of Python where it is useful to 
see otherwise invisible characters. I was using Microsoft Word's "Show 
Invisibles" functionality years before Python even existed. Being able to 
see a visual glyph in place of whitespace (including line ending 
characters) is not just useful for editing indentation.



-- 
Steven


From bouncyinc at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 22:58:52 2009
From: bouncyinc at gmail.com (John Haggerty)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 20:58:52 -0600
Subject: redoing libgmail interface to "smtplib" blah?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 7:23 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

> On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 14:23:26 -0600, John Haggerty 
> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>
> > The following program is theoretically supposed to use a supported
> library.
> > Issues have come up where the library is not working and now another
> > interface is being requierd to be used.
> >
> > At this point I'm looking at just changing the send commands but don't
> feel
> > confident in doing so. Wondering specifically what would have to be
> changed
> > to what.
> >
> > Thanks for your time :)
>
>         Ugh... I'm afraid if I attacked this program I'd have to
> restructure
> the entire thing... There are no signs of any functional decomposition
> in that -- if Python had an unstructured GOTO, I'd suspect this would
> have been a spaghetti-code program... As it is, the best I can call it
> is lasagna-code  (interwoven but distinct layers in a linear form
> from one end to the other).
>
>
> > if __name__ == "__main__":
> >     import os,time,sys,libgmail
> >     from subprocess import Popen,PIPE
> >     main(sys.argv)
>
>         Given the position of the import statements, this file can NOT be
> used as an importable module for use by other programs, so the whole
> breakdown of a main() is meaningless; might as well remove that if, the
> def main(): line, move the imports to the top, and unindent the rest one
> level.
>
>        All those embedded calls to exit() also offend me; I'm from the "one
> in, one out" school (though I'll use break and continue in a loop, I
> still favor just one usage of them in such)
>
>        Ideally, all the SMS related stuff would be isolated apart from the
> email stuff. Would make changing email interface a lot more intuitive.
>
>        Out of a fit of boredom, though it probably doesn't help your real
> problem, and it has not been tested at all, this is my restructuring of
> the code listing.
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> import os
> import time
> import sys
> import subprocess
>
> import libgmail
>
>
> CARRIERLIST = [   ("3 River Wireless", "@sms.3rivers.net"),
>                   ("7-11 Speakout","@cingularme.com"),
>                  #            ("Airtel (Karnataka","India) Alaska
> Communications Systems"),
>                  ("Alltel Wireless","@message.alltel.com"),
>                  ("AT&T Wireless","@txt.att.net"),
>                  ("Bell Mobility (Canada)","@txt.bell.ca"),
>                  ("Boost Mobile","@myboostmobile.com"),
>                  ("Cellular One (Dobson)","@mobile.celloneusa.com"),
>                  ("Cingular (Postpaid)","@cingularme.com"),
>                  ("Centennial Wireless","@cwemail.com"),
>                  ("Cingular (GoPhone prepaid)","@cingularme.com"),
>                  ("Claro (Nicaragua)","@ideasclaro-ca.com"),
>                  ("Comcel","@comcel.com.co"),
>                  ("Cricket","@sms.mycricket.com"),
>                  ("CTI","@sms.ctimovil.com.ar"),
>                  ("Emtel (Mauritius)","@emtelworld.net"),
>                  ("Fido (Canada)","@fido.ca"),
>                  ("General Communications Inc.","@msg.gci.net"),
>                  ("Globalstar","@msg.globalstarusa.com"),
>                  ("Helio","@myhelio.com"),
>                  ("Illinois Valley Cellular","@ivctext.com"),
>                  #            ("i wireless",".iws at iwspcs.net"),
>                  ("Meteor (Ireland)","@sms.mymeteor.ie"),
>                  ("Mero Mobile (Nepal)","@sms.spicenepal.com"),
>                  ("MetroPCS","@mymetropcs.com"),
>                  ("Movicom","@movimensaje.com.ar"),
>                  ("Mobitel (Sri Lanka)","@sms.mobitel.lk"),
>                  ("Movistar (Colombia)","@movistar.com.co"),
>                  ("MTN (South Africa)","@sms.co.za"),
>                  ("MTS (Canada)","@text.mtsmobility.com"),
>                  ("Nextel (Argentina)","@nextel.net.ar"),
>                  ("Orange (Poland)","@orange.pl"),
>                  ("Personal (Argentina)","@personal-net.com.ar"),
>                  ("Plus GSM (Poland)","@text.plusgsm.pl"),
>                  ("President's Choice (Canada)","@txt.bell.ca"),
>                  ("Qwest","@qwestmp.com"),
>                  ("Rogers (Canada)","@pcs.rogers.com"),
>                  ("Sasktel (Canada)","@sms.sasktel.com"),
>                  ("Setar Mobile email (Aruba)","@mas.aw"),
>                  ("Solo Mobile","@txt.bell.ca"),
>                  ("Sprint (PCS)","@messaging.sprintpcs.com"),
>                  ("Sprint (Nextel)","@page.nextel.com"),
>                  ("Suncom","@tms.suncom.com"),
>                  ("T-Mobile","@tmomail.net"),
>                  ("T-Mobile (Austria)","@sms.t-mobile.at"),
>                  ("Telus Mobility (Canada)","@msg.telus.com"),
>                  ("Thumb Cellular","@sms.thumbcellular.com"),
>                  ("Tigo (Formerly Ola)","@sms.tigo.com.co"),
>                  ("Unicel","@utext.com"),
>                  ("US Cellular","@email.uscc.net"),
>                  ("Verizon","@vtext.com"),
>                  ("Virgin Mobile (Canada)","@vmobile.ca"),
>                  ("Virgin Mobile (USA)","@vmobl.com"),
>                  ("YCC","@sms.ycc.ru"),
>                  ("Orange (UK)","@orange.net"),
>                  ("Cincinnati Bell Wireless","@gocbw.com"),
>                  ("T-Mobile Germany","@t-mobile-sms.de"),
>                  ("Vodafone Germany","@vodafone-sms.de"),
>                   ("E-Plus","@smsmail.eplus.de")    ]
>
> INSTRUCTIONS = """
> ------Usage---------------------------------------------------------------
> ------Start Service ---
>        ogss.py USERNAME PASSWORD CELL-NUMBER CARRIER-NUMBER
> ------List carriers ---
>        ogss.py -c
>
> ------Useage from
> phone----------------------------------------------------
> ------Ogss COMMAND
> """
>
> #odd notation is to split by lines, then join lines with a space
> PHONEINSTRUCTIONS = " ".join(
>     """To use OGSS reply to this message with an SMS starting with
> "Ogss". Whatever follows "Ogss" will be executed on your computer
> """.split())
>
> class Logfile(object):
>    def __init__(self):
>        self.logname = os.path.join(os.environ["HOME"], "ogss.log")
>        if not os.path.exists(self.logname):
>            try:
>                self.log = open(logname, "w+")
>            except:
>                print "Failure to create log file; check permissions"
>                self.log = None
>        else:
>            try:
>                print "Opening log file: %s" % self.logname
>                self.log = open(logname, "r+")
>            except:
>                self.log = None
>
>    def opened(self):
>        return self.log is not None
>
>    def readParse(self):
>        if self.opened():
>            self.log.seek(0, os.SEEK_SET)
>            retdata = []
>            for line in self.log:
>                 eid = line.split("~")
>                if len(eid) >= 2:
>                     retdata.append(int(eid[0]))
>        return retdata
>
>    def write(self, ID, commandLine):
>        if self.opened():
>            self.log.seek(0, os.SEEK_END)
>            self.log.write("%s %s\n" % (ID, commandLine))
>
>    def close(self):
>        if self.opened():
>            self.log.close()
>
> class MailConnection(object):
>    #might have been possible to subclass from libgmail.GmailAccount
>    #but by incorporating that as a component instead makes it
>    #a bit easier to replace with something else (SMTP?)
>    def __init__(self, uname, passwd):
>        self.uname = uname
>        self.passwd = passwd
>        self.account = libgmail.GmailAccount(self.uname, self.passwd)
>
>    def login(self):
>        self.account.login()
>
>    def sendMessage(self, message):
>        self.account.sendMessage(message)
>
>    def getMessageByQuery(qstring, flag):   #what does flag do?
>        return self.account.getMessagesByQuery(qstring, flag)
>
>    def composeMessage(self, to, subject, body):
>        return libgmail.GmailComposedMessage(to,
>                                             subject,
>                                             body)
>
>
> def parseCommandLine(args):
>    retdata = None
>    if len(args) == 1 and args[0] = "-c":
>        for i, car in enumerate(CARRIERLIST):
>            print "%5d -- %s" % (i, car[0])
>
>    elif len(args) > 3:
>        (username, password, number, carrierID) = tuple(args[:4])
>        carrier = CARRIERLIST[int(carrierID)]
>         cell_email = number + carrier[1]
>         retdata = { "User" : username,
>                    "Pass" : password,
>                    "Number" : number,
>                    "ID" : carrierID,
>                    "Carrier" : carrier,
>                    "Cell" : cell_email }
>
>    else:
>        print INSTRUCTIONS
>    return retdata
>
>
> def main(argv):
>    print "Starting ogss"
>
>     print "Opening log file"
>    logfile = Logfile()
>    if logfile.opened():
>        print "Parsing log file"
>        execd = logfile.readParse()
>
>        print "Parsing command line input"
>        callee = parseCommandLine(argv[1:]) #strip program name
>
>        if callee is not None:
>            print "Logging in to mail server"
>            account = MailConnection(callee["User"],
>                                     callee["Pass"])
>            account.login()
>
> ##            #if log file contents are empty, send instructions to
> ##            #user's phone
> ##            if not len(execd):
> ##                account.sendMessage(
> ##                    account.composeMessage(
> ##                        callee["Cell"],
> ##                        "OGSS Instructions",
> ##                        PHONEINSTRUCTIONS)  )
>
>
>            try:
>                while True:
>                    print "Listening for commands"
>                    print "Getting mailbox contents"
>                    searchResult = account.getMessagesByQuery(
>                        "from:" + callee["Cell"],
>                        True    )
>                    if searchResult:    #presume empty if no messages
>                        maxID = 0
>                        maxMessage = None
>                         for thread in searchResult:
>                            for message in thread:
>                                 if callee["Cell"] == message.sender:
>                                    mID = int(message.id, 16)
>                                    if mID > maxID:
>                                        maxID = mID
>                                        maxMessage = message
>
>                        if maxID and maxMessage:
>                            if not maxID in execd:
>                                print "Parsing command from message"
>                                ogssSplit =
> maxMessage.source.split("Ogss")
>                                command = ogssSplit[-1].split(
>                                    "")[0].split()
>
>                                result = subprocess.Popen(
>                                    command,
>                                    stdout = subprocess.PIPE)
>                                body = result.stdout.read()
>                                account.sendMessage(
>                                    account.composeMessage(
>                                        callee["Cell"],
>                                        "STDOUT",
>                                        "\n" + body)    )
>                                logfile.write(maxID, " ".join(command))
>
>                    #TODO add ability to choose sleep time
>                    time.sleep(2)
>             except (KeyboardInterrupt):
>                pass    #exit WHILE loop with  or equivalent
> ##        else:
> ##            pass    #no login data supplied on startup
>
>        logfile.close()
>    else:
>        print "Could not open log file, check permissions"
>
>
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>    main(sys.argv)
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>
>        Everything that needs to be changed for SMTP should be in the class
> MailConnection. Note: it appears that this program expects a
> bidirectional mail connection -- similar to IMAP, where one connection
> access both outgoing mail AND incoming mail that is stored on the remote
> system. You'll probably need to use both SMTP to send the messages, and
> POP3 to retrieve the mailbox contents -- and what you do about leaving
> messages in a POP3 mailbox is up to you; most clients normally delete
> them after fetching, but if the query has to fetch all messages just to
> process one set, that may be a concern... Or you use something else to
> retrieve messages and store them in a local mailbox for subsequent
> usage.
>
>        HMMM that does bring up the point -- where is your existing problem?
> Reading GMAIL or sending to GMAIL?



Sending actually reading worked which was what really surprised me.
Especially since python had a ssl for pop and smtp as well.


>
>
>        Heh... with a bit of work, I could probably create a Eudora filter
> to invoke a Python script on each new fetched email with the proper
> subject/content, and then file it away is a different (local) mailbox --
> and do away with that whole log file search and message searching as
> messages would be processed as received and never seen again.
> --
>        Wulfraed         Dennis Lee Bieber               KD6MOG
>        wlfraed at ix.netcom.com   HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 23:00:23 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 20:00:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in 
	string literals]
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> 
	
	
	 
	
	<5fcd454d-14b4-452b-91d3-938e9fa0bd18@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<02975ce6$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 15, 10:19?pm, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:

> On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 13:01:43 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:
> > P.S. I find it strange, however, that anyone who is not okay with
> > "abusing" operator overloading in this manner, wouldn't also take
> > umbrage at Python's overloading of "+" to work with strings and lists,
> > etc. Numerical addition and sequence concatenation have entirely
> > different semantics.
>
> Not to English speakers, where we frequently use 'add' to mean
> concatenate, append, insert, etc.:

That is certainly true, but the "+" symbol (pronounced "plus" not
"add") isn't exactly synonymous with the English word "add" and is
usually used in, technical circles, to refer to a function that at
least meets the properties of an abelian group operator.

Also, programming languages (other than Perl) should be more precise
than English. English words often have many, many meanings, but when
we are talking about types and operations on types, the operations
should generally have more specific semantics.

In any case, let's say we grant that operators should be allowed to be
as sloppy as English. Then we should have no problem with C++'s use of
"<<" for i/o. Pseudo-code has a long heritage of using "<-" to
indicate assignment, and there are a number of programming language
(e.g., APL) that use assignment to the output terminal to indicate
writing to the terminal.  C++'s usage of "<<" for output is clearly
designed to be reminiscent of this, and therefore intuitive.

And intuitive it is, given the aforementioned background, at least.

So, as far as I can tell, Python has no real authority to throw stones
at C++ on this little tiny particular issue.

|>ouglas


From bouncyinc at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 23:18:14 2009
From: bouncyinc at gmail.com (John Haggerty)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 21:18:14 -0600
Subject: A Exhibition Of Tech Geekers Incompetence: Emacs whitespace-mode
In-Reply-To: <02975dbe$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <61ef4451-d6b6-493b-b4a0-1822a901ca8d@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<4a870a7b$0$1674$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	<02975dbe$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

I would have to agree with that since I've had to work with Word 2007 issues
with formatting from some...demanding people in the past. Took at least
1hour plus.

On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 8:22 PM, Steven D'Aprano <
steve at remove-this-cybersource.com.au> wrote:

> On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 12:24:26 -0700, John Nagle wrote:
>
> > fortunatus wrote:
> >> On Aug 14, 1:01 pm, vippstar  wrote:
> >>> Why would you fill your website with junk?
> >>
> >> The OP made it clear:
> >>
> >>> Just wanted to express some frustration with whitespace-mode.
> >
> >     Well, it took until Python 3.0 until Python enforced rules that
> > ensured that the indentation the user sees is the same indentation the
> > compiler sees.  We finally have a solution that allows both tabs and
> > spaces but disallows the situations which are ambiguous.  Until Python
> > 3.0 is fully deployed, there are situations when you need an insane
> > level of tab/space visibility.  Blame Python, not EMACS.
>
> You know, there are situations outside of Python where it is useful to
> see otherwise invisible characters. I was using Microsoft Word's "Show
> Invisibles" functionality years before Python even existed. Being able to
> see a visual glyph in place of whitespace (including line ending
> characters) is not just useful for editing indentation.
>
>
>
> --
> Steven
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From bouncyinc at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 23:37:37 2009
From: bouncyinc at gmail.com (John Haggerty)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 21:37:37 -0600
Subject: unittest
In-Reply-To: <1cbd6f830908142028v638a4c06jf0f859be712e724c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1cbd6f830908142028v638a4c06jf0f859be712e724c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

This is an interesting question. I am just wondering: do you really have
that many features that it would be impossible to just have a shell script
run specific types of input or tests?

When I did programming in the past for education they just had lists of
input data and we ran the program against the test data.

I just get slightly confused when "test suites" start to have to apply?

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 9:28 PM, Mag Gam  wrote:

> I am writing an application which has many command line arguments.
> For example: foo.py -args "bar bee"
>
> I would like to create a test suit using unittest so when I add
> features to "foo.py" I don't want to break other things. I just heard
> about unittest and would love to use it for this type of thing.
>
> so my question is, when I do these tests do I have to code them into
> foo.py? I prefer having a footest.py which will run the regression
> tests. Any thoughts about this?
>
> TIA
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From bouncyinc at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 23:40:23 2009
From: bouncyinc at gmail.com (John Haggerty)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 21:40:23 -0600
Subject: ignored test cases in unittest
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

So you are saying you have several hundred tests you have to do on your
program?

On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 7:04 PM, Terry  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have some 100s unittest cases with my python program. And sometimes,
> I did quick-and-dirty work by ignoring some test cases by adding an
> 'x' (or something else) to the beginning of the case name.
> As time pass by, it's very hard for me to find which test cases are
> ignored.
>
> It seemed the to me that python unittest module does not support the
> counting of ignored test cases directly. Is there any ready solution
> for this?
>
> br, Terry
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From bouncyinc at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 23:44:03 2009
From: bouncyinc at gmail.com (John Haggerty)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 21:44:03 -0600
Subject: Python or ActionScript 3.0
In-Reply-To: <0e14ae96-e9f5-41ff-8c2d-72c4ef624345@18g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: <0e14ae96-e9f5-41ff-8c2d-72c4ef624345@18g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

If it were me I'd go with python at least based on the fact that it's more
supported and more popular, enough so that it has o'reiley soruces on it.

On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 3:32 PM, Jaseem  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Is python similar to actionscript 3.0
> Which is better to create a rich gui internet application?
> Is it AS 3.0 with flex or python with its GUI libs?
>
> Is python in demand?
> Heard that python is similar to lisp. But both python and AS 3.0 is
> almost identical. Which is more similar to lisp are powerful?
>
> Thank You.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From bouncyinc at gmail.com  Sat Aug 15 23:59:09 2009
From: bouncyinc at gmail.com (John Haggerty)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 21:59:09 -0600
Subject: random.gauss vs. random.normalvariate
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<89df98da-cdaf-4422-9bc0-c0b46ebefcda@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 7:23 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

> On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 14:34:36 -0600, John Haggerty 
> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>
> > What does the term "thread safe" mean exactly. I never had to program
> with
> > "threads" before
>
>         That, part way through the logic of the function, control could be
> switched to a different thread which call the same function... This
> second call would change some of the internal values and may then be
> preempted and control returned to the first thread, which continues the
> rest of the function with different values then it had when first
> preempted.
>
>        A very contrived example, untested of course, consider it
> pseudo-code...
>
> startt = None
>
> def atimer():
>        global startt
>        startt = time.time()
>        time.sleep(5)
>        print time.time() - startt
>
> t1 = threading.thread(atimer)
> t2 = threading.thread(atimer)
> t1.start()
> t2.start()
>
> Say t1 gets all the way up to the sleep call, and (since sleep is a
> releasing call), t2 then starts. t2 changes the value of startt; and
> sleeps... both sleep and presuming the resolution is fine enough, t1
> resumes, and  prints a delta time that is incorrect -- it is printing
> the time difference from when t2 started to sleep, not from when t1
> started to sleep.
> --
>        Wulfraed         Dennis Lee Bieber               KD6MOG
>        wlfraed at ix.netcom.com   HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

Interesting so it seems that the compiler(c/c++)interpreter(perl,
python)/vm(java) doesn't do this?
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From terry.yinzhe at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 00:09:45 2009
From: terry.yinzhe at gmail.com (Terry Yin)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 12:09:45 +0800
Subject: ignored test cases in unittest
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

Yes, should be more than 200. But now 187+ are running (some are
'ignored').It's
a personal project, I just don't feel safe without all the testing as it
grows bigger and bigger.


On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 11:40 AM, John Haggerty  wrote:

> So you are saying you have several hundred tests you have to do on your
> program?
>
> On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 7:04 PM, Terry  wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have some 100s unittest cases with my python program. And sometimes,
>> I did quick-and-dirty work by ignoring some test cases by adding an
>> 'x' (or something else) to the beginning of the case name.
>> As time pass by, it's very hard for me to find which test cases are
>> ignored.
>>
>> It seemed the to me that python unittest module does not support the
>> counting of ignored test cases directly. Is there any ready solution
>> for this?
>>
>> br, Terry
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>
>


-- 
-------------------------
Blog: http://terry-yinzhe.spaces.live.com/
twitter: http://twitter.com/terryyin
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From http  Sun Aug 16 00:18:36 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 15 Aug 2009 21:18:36 -0700
Subject: random.gauss vs. random.normalvariate
References: 
	<89df98da-cdaf-4422-9bc0-c0b46ebefcda@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: <7xd46ws86b.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Dennis Lee Bieber  writes:
> 	No language can guard against independent access of a shared/global
> object by multiple threads...

Erlang?


From bouncyinc at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 00:23:33 2009
From: bouncyinc at gmail.com (John Haggerty)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 22:23:33 -0600
Subject: random.gauss vs. random.normalvariate
In-Reply-To: <7xd46ws86b.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: 
	<89df98da-cdaf-4422-9bc0-c0b46ebefcda@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
	
	<7xd46ws86b.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: 

Erlang I assume is a computer programming language?

On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 10:18 PM, Paul Rubin
wrote:

> Dennis Lee Bieber  writes:
> >       No language can guard against independent access of a shared/global
> > object by multiple threads...
>
> Erlang?
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From sbassi at clubdelarazon.org  Sun Aug 16 00:55:11 2009
From: sbassi at clubdelarazon.org (Sebastian Bassi)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 01:55:11 -0300
Subject: Python or ActionScript 3.0
In-Reply-To: <8a14e744-eb6c-4ae2-9bb4-2e32fcb987ae@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <0e14ae96-e9f5-41ff-8c2d-72c4ef624345@18g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<8a14e744-eb6c-4ae2-9bb4-2e32fcb987ae@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <9e2f512b0908152155w47318f81r866190ee8bcf1b4@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 10:29 PM, Douglas Alan wrote:
> Python doesn't run in your typical web browser, but it is common to
> use Python for doing the server-side programming, along with a Python-
> based web development framework, such as Django.
> You could use Jython to make a JVM applet that would run in a browser,
> but JVM applets aren't very popular for a variety of reasons, and I
> doubt the performance would be very good.

There is another way to run Python in a browser: MS Silverlight, it
runs IronPython on web browsers.
http://www.trypython.org/


From kee at kagi.com  Sun Aug 16 01:04:25 2009
From: kee at kagi.com (Kee Nethery)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 22:04:25 -0700
Subject: Komodo(!)
In-Reply-To: <553649.43098.qm@web110605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <-7ydndQXQODmNxjXRVn_vwA@giganews.com>
	
	<553649.43098.qm@web110605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5C409E92-2D78-4356-9ED0-34F418CEF2B4@kagi.com>


On Aug 14, 2009, at 1:55 PM, William wrote:

> Personally, I rather like Wing

I tried Wing and basically as a newbie, there were too many setup  
parameters that I did not know how to set correctly and I could never  
get it to work for me. It runs under X11 and I guess that was just a  
bit too techie for me to get it to work properly. It's probably a very  
nice IDE and they were certainly helpful with their support but after  
a bunch of back and forths I decided to go back to Komodo.

Have not looked at NetBeans.

I'm a newbie and I need something that just works. Launch it and use  
it. Komodo meets that need for me.

I've heard there is a nice add-on to Eclipse but Eclipse has even more  
setup variables than Wings and I've avoided it for that reason.

Kee



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Aug 16 01:05:01 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 16 Aug 2009 05:05:01 GMT
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in 
	string literals]
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	
	
	<5fcd454d-14b4-452b-91d3-938e9fa0bd18@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<02975ce6$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <029783cd$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 20:00:23 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:

> So, as far as I can tell, Python has no real authority to throw stones
> at C++ on this little tiny particular issue.

I think you're being a tad over-defensive. I asked a genuine question 
about a quote in somebody's signature. That's a quote which can be found 
all over the Internet, and the poster using it has (as far as I know) no 
official capacity to speak for "Python" -- while Aahz is a high-profile, 
well-respected Pythonista, he's not Guido.

Now that I understand what the semantics of cout << "Hello world" are, I 
don't have any problem with it either. It is a bit weird, "Hello world" 
>> cout would probably be better, but it's hardly the strangest design in 
any programming language, and it's probably influenced by input 
redirection using < in various shells.


-- 
Steven


From bouncyinc at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 01:14:39 2009
From: bouncyinc at gmail.com (John Haggerty)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 23:14:39 -0600
Subject: redoing libgmail interface to "smtplib" blah?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

I did detect one problem thus far

 File "test.py", line 152
    if len(args) == 1 and args[0] = "-c":


On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 7:23 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

> On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 14:23:26 -0600, John Haggerty 
> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>
> > The following program is theoretically supposed to use a supported
> library.
> > Issues have come up where the library is not working and now another
> > interface is being requierd to be used.
> >
> > At this point I'm looking at just changing the send commands but don't
> feel
> > confident in doing so. Wondering specifically what would have to be
> changed
> > to what.
> >
> > Thanks for your time :)
>
>         Ugh... I'm afraid if I attacked this program I'd have to
> restructure
> the entire thing... There are no signs of any functional decomposition
> in that -- if Python had an unstructured GOTO, I'd suspect this would
> have been a spaghetti-code program... As it is, the best I can call it
> is lasagna-code  (interwoven but distinct layers in a linear form
> from one end to the other).
>
>
> > if __name__ == "__main__":
> >     import os,time,sys,libgmail
> >     from subprocess import Popen,PIPE
> >     main(sys.argv)
>
>         Given the position of the import statements, this file can NOT be
> used as an importable module for use by other programs, so the whole
> breakdown of a main() is meaningless; might as well remove that if, the
> def main(): line, move the imports to the top, and unindent the rest one
> level.
>
>        All those embedded calls to exit() also offend me; I'm from the "one
> in, one out" school (though I'll use break and continue in a loop, I
> still favor just one usage of them in such)
>
>        Ideally, all the SMS related stuff would be isolated apart from the
> email stuff. Would make changing email interface a lot more intuitive.
>
>        Out of a fit of boredom, though it probably doesn't help your real
> problem, and it has not been tested at all, this is my restructuring of
> the code listing.
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> import os
> import time
> import sys
> import subprocess
>
> import libgmail
>
>
> CARRIERLIST = [   ("3 River Wireless", "@sms.3rivers.net"),
>                   ("7-11 Speakout","@cingularme.com"),
>                  #            ("Airtel (Karnataka","India) Alaska
> Communications Systems"),
>                  ("Alltel Wireless","@message.alltel.com"),
>                  ("AT&T Wireless","@txt.att.net"),
>                  ("Bell Mobility (Canada)","@txt.bell.ca"),
>                  ("Boost Mobile","@myboostmobile.com"),
>                  ("Cellular One (Dobson)","@mobile.celloneusa.com"),
>                  ("Cingular (Postpaid)","@cingularme.com"),
>                  ("Centennial Wireless","@cwemail.com"),
>                  ("Cingular (GoPhone prepaid)","@cingularme.com"),
>                  ("Claro (Nicaragua)","@ideasclaro-ca.com"),
>                  ("Comcel","@comcel.com.co"),
>                  ("Cricket","@sms.mycricket.com"),
>                  ("CTI","@sms.ctimovil.com.ar"),
>                  ("Emtel (Mauritius)","@emtelworld.net"),
>                  ("Fido (Canada)","@fido.ca"),
>                  ("General Communications Inc.","@msg.gci.net"),
>                  ("Globalstar","@msg.globalstarusa.com"),
>                  ("Helio","@myhelio.com"),
>                  ("Illinois Valley Cellular","@ivctext.com"),
>                  #            ("i wireless",".iws at iwspcs.net"),
>                  ("Meteor (Ireland)","@sms.mymeteor.ie"),
>                  ("Mero Mobile (Nepal)","@sms.spicenepal.com"),
>                  ("MetroPCS","@mymetropcs.com"),
>                  ("Movicom","@movimensaje.com.ar"),
>                  ("Mobitel (Sri Lanka)","@sms.mobitel.lk"),
>                  ("Movistar (Colombia)","@movistar.com.co"),
>                  ("MTN (South Africa)","@sms.co.za"),
>                  ("MTS (Canada)","@text.mtsmobility.com"),
>                  ("Nextel (Argentina)","@nextel.net.ar"),
>                  ("Orange (Poland)","@orange.pl"),
>                  ("Personal (Argentina)","@personal-net.com.ar"),
>                  ("Plus GSM (Poland)","@text.plusgsm.pl"),
>                  ("President's Choice (Canada)","@txt.bell.ca"),
>                  ("Qwest","@qwestmp.com"),
>                  ("Rogers (Canada)","@pcs.rogers.com"),
>                  ("Sasktel (Canada)","@sms.sasktel.com"),
>                  ("Setar Mobile email (Aruba)","@mas.aw"),
>                  ("Solo Mobile","@txt.bell.ca"),
>                  ("Sprint (PCS)","@messaging.sprintpcs.com"),
>                  ("Sprint (Nextel)","@page.nextel.com"),
>                  ("Suncom","@tms.suncom.com"),
>                  ("T-Mobile","@tmomail.net"),
>                  ("T-Mobile (Austria)","@sms.t-mobile.at"),
>                  ("Telus Mobility (Canada)","@msg.telus.com"),
>                  ("Thumb Cellular","@sms.thumbcellular.com"),
>                  ("Tigo (Formerly Ola)","@sms.tigo.com.co"),
>                  ("Unicel","@utext.com"),
>                  ("US Cellular","@email.uscc.net"),
>                  ("Verizon","@vtext.com"),
>                  ("Virgin Mobile (Canada)","@vmobile.ca"),
>                  ("Virgin Mobile (USA)","@vmobl.com"),
>                  ("YCC","@sms.ycc.ru"),
>                  ("Orange (UK)","@orange.net"),
>                  ("Cincinnati Bell Wireless","@gocbw.com"),
>                  ("T-Mobile Germany","@t-mobile-sms.de"),
>                  ("Vodafone Germany","@vodafone-sms.de"),
>                   ("E-Plus","@smsmail.eplus.de")    ]
>
> INSTRUCTIONS = """
> ------Usage---------------------------------------------------------------
> ------Start Service ---
>        ogss.py USERNAME PASSWORD CELL-NUMBER CARRIER-NUMBER
> ------List carriers ---
>        ogss.py -c
>
> ------Useage from
> phone----------------------------------------------------
> ------Ogss COMMAND
> """
>
> #odd notation is to split by lines, then join lines with a space
> PHONEINSTRUCTIONS = " ".join(
>     """To use OGSS reply to this message with an SMS starting with
> "Ogss". Whatever follows "Ogss" will be executed on your computer
> """.split())
>
> class Logfile(object):
>    def __init__(self):
>        self.logname = os.path.join(os.environ["HOME"], "ogss.log")
>        if not os.path.exists(self.logname):
>            try:
>                self.log = open(logname, "w+")
>            except:
>                print "Failure to create log file; check permissions"
>                self.log = None
>        else:
>            try:
>                print "Opening log file: %s" % self.logname
>                self.log = open(logname, "r+")
>            except:
>                self.log = None
>
>    def opened(self):
>        return self.log is not None
>
>    def readParse(self):
>        if self.opened():
>            self.log.seek(0, os.SEEK_SET)
>            retdata = []
>            for line in self.log:
>                 eid = line.split("~")
>                if len(eid) >= 2:
>                     retdata.append(int(eid[0]))
>        return retdata
>
>    def write(self, ID, commandLine):
>        if self.opened():
>            self.log.seek(0, os.SEEK_END)
>            self.log.write("%s %s\n" % (ID, commandLine))
>
>    def close(self):
>        if self.opened():
>            self.log.close()
>
> class MailConnection(object):
>    #might have been possible to subclass from libgmail.GmailAccount
>    #but by incorporating that as a component instead makes it
>    #a bit easier to replace with something else (SMTP?)
>    def __init__(self, uname, passwd):
>        self.uname = uname
>        self.passwd = passwd
>        self.account = libgmail.GmailAccount(self.uname, self.passwd)
>
>    def login(self):
>        self.account.login()
>
>    def sendMessage(self, message):
>        self.account.sendMessage(message)
>
>    def getMessageByQuery(qstring, flag):   #what does flag do?
>        return self.account.getMessagesByQuery(qstring, flag)
>
>    def composeMessage(self, to, subject, body):
>        return libgmail.GmailComposedMessage(to,
>                                             subject,
>                                             body)
>
>
> def parseCommandLine(args):
>    retdata = None
>    if len(args) == 1 and args[0] = "-c":
>        for i, car in enumerate(CARRIERLIST):
>            print "%5d -- %s" % (i, car[0])
>
>    elif len(args) > 3:
>        (username, password, number, carrierID) = tuple(args[:4])
>        carrier = CARRIERLIST[int(carrierID)]
>         cell_email = number + carrier[1]
>         retdata = { "User" : username,
>                    "Pass" : password,
>                    "Number" : number,
>                    "ID" : carrierID,
>                    "Carrier" : carrier,
>                    "Cell" : cell_email }
>
>    else:
>        print INSTRUCTIONS
>    return retdata
>
>
> def main(argv):
>    print "Starting ogss"
>
>     print "Opening log file"
>    logfile = Logfile()
>    if logfile.opened():
>        print "Parsing log file"
>        execd = logfile.readParse()
>
>        print "Parsing command line input"
>        callee = parseCommandLine(argv[1:]) #strip program name
>
>        if callee is not None:
>            print "Logging in to mail server"
>            account = MailConnection(callee["User"],
>                                     callee["Pass"])
>            account.login()
>
> ##            #if log file contents are empty, send instructions to
> ##            #user's phone
> ##            if not len(execd):
> ##                account.sendMessage(
> ##                    account.composeMessage(
> ##                        callee["Cell"],
> ##                        "OGSS Instructions",
> ##                        PHONEINSTRUCTIONS)  )
>
>
>            try:
>                while True:
>                    print "Listening for commands"
>                    print "Getting mailbox contents"
>                    searchResult = account.getMessagesByQuery(
>                        "from:" + callee["Cell"],
>                        True    )
>                    if searchResult:    #presume empty if no messages
>                        maxID = 0
>                        maxMessage = None
>                         for thread in searchResult:
>                            for message in thread:
>                                 if callee["Cell"] == message.sender:
>                                    mID = int(message.id, 16)
>                                    if mID > maxID:
>                                        maxID = mID
>                                        maxMessage = message
>
>                        if maxID and maxMessage:
>                            if not maxID in execd:
>                                print "Parsing command from message"
>                                ogssSplit =
> maxMessage.source.split("Ogss")
>                                command = ogssSplit[-1].split(
>                                    "")[0].split()
>
>                                result = subprocess.Popen(
>                                    command,
>                                    stdout = subprocess.PIPE)
>                                body = result.stdout.read()
>                                account.sendMessage(
>                                    account.composeMessage(
>                                        callee["Cell"],
>                                        "STDOUT",
>                                        "\n" + body)    )
>                                logfile.write(maxID, " ".join(command))
>
>                    #TODO add ability to choose sleep time
>                    time.sleep(2)
>             except (KeyboardInterrupt):
>                pass    #exit WHILE loop with  or equivalent
> ##        else:
> ##            pass    #no login data supplied on startup
>
>        logfile.close()
>    else:
>        print "Could not open log file, check permissions"
>
>
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>    main(sys.argv)
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>
>        Everything that needs to be changed for SMTP should be in the class
> MailConnection. Note: it appears that this program expects a
> bidirectional mail connection -- similar to IMAP, where one connection
> access both outgoing mail AND incoming mail that is stored on the remote
> system. You'll probably need to use both SMTP to send the messages, and
> POP3 to retrieve the mailbox contents -- and what you do about leaving
> messages in a POP3 mailbox is up to you; most clients normally delete
> them after fetching, but if the query has to fetch all messages just to
> process one set, that may be a concern... Or you use something else to
> retrieve messages and store them in a local mailbox for subsequent
> usage.
>
>        HMMM that does bring up the point -- where is your existing problem?
> Reading GMAIL or sending to GMAIL?
>
>        Heh... with a bit of work, I could probably create a Eudora filter
> to invoke a Python script on each new fetched email with the proper
> subject/content, and then file it away is a different (local) mailbox --
> and do away with that whole log file search and message searching as
> messages would be processed as received and never seen again.
> --
>        Wulfraed         Dennis Lee Bieber               KD6MOG
>        wlfraed at ix.netcom.com   HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From enleverLesX_XXmcX at XmclavXeauX.com  Sun Aug 16 01:43:29 2009
From: enleverLesX_XXmcX at XmclavXeauX.com (Michel Claveau - MVP)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 07:43:29 +0200
Subject: Python or ActionScript 3.0
References: <8a14e744-eb6c-4ae2-9bb4-2e32fcb987ae@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a879c84$0$17754$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr>

Hi!

> Python doesn't run in your typical web browser

Yes, Python can do it... on Windows.
Two (examples) ways:
  - ActiveScripting (PythonScript), include in PyWin32
  - Gestalt (who mix Python, Ruby & Javascript, via Silverlight)

And alse, these two solutions run OK in HTA (HTml Application) for use HTML as GUI tool in local applications.

@-salutations
-- 
Michel Claveau 



From enleverLesX_XXmcX at XmclavXeauX.com  Sun Aug 16 01:46:45 2009
From: enleverLesX_XXmcX at XmclavXeauX.com (Michel Claveau - MVP)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 07:46:45 +0200
Subject: Python- javascript
References: <985d635f-5784-40a7-a2bb-b76900c200d9@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a879d47$0$17765$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr>

Hi!

If you are under Windows, you can drive IE, for indirect drive the web-pages. 
In this case, you can then interact with pages & the javascript's scripts included.

For more, see Pywin32, Pamie, Pxie, etc.

@-salutations
-- 
Michel Claveau 



From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 01:51:07 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 22:51:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in 
	string literals]
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> 
	
	
	 
	
	<5fcd454d-14b4-452b-91d3-938e9fa0bd18@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<02975ce6$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<029783cd$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <34dd6e0e-3b47-4761-ad7a-9038b0d36209@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 16, 1:05?am, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 20:00:23 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:
> > So, as far as I can tell, Python has no real authority to throw stones
> > at C++ on this little tiny particular issue.

> I think you're being a tad over-defensive.

Defensive? Personally, I prefer Python over C++ by about a factor of
100X. I just find it a bit amusing when someone claims that some
programming language has a particular fatal flaw, when their own
apparently favorite language has the very same issue in an only
slightly different form.

> the poster using it has (as far as I know) no official capacity to speak
> for "Python"

I never thought he did. I wasn't speaking literally, as I'm not under
the opinion that any programming language has any literal authority or
any literal ability to throw stones.

> Now that I understand what the semantics of cout << "Hello world" are, I
> don't have any problem with it either. It is a bit weird, "Hello world">> cout
> would probably be better, but it's hardly the strangest design in
> any programming language, and it's probably influenced by input
> redirection using < in various shells.

C++ also allows for reading from stdin like so:

   cin >> myVar;

I think the direction of the arrows probably derives from languages
like APL, which had notation something like so:

     myVar <- 3
     [] <- myVar

"<-" was really a little arrow symbol (APL didn't use ascii), and the
first line above would assign the value 3 to myVar. In the second
line, the "[]" was really a little box symbol and represented the
terminal.  Assigning to the box would cause the output to be printed
on the terminal, so the above would output "3".  If you did this:

     [] -> myVar

It would read a value into myVar from the terminal.

APL predates Unix by quite a few years.

|>ouglas


From xahlee at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 01:54:06 2009
From: xahlee at gmail.com (Xah Lee)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 22:54:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Xah's Edu Corner: The importance of syntax & notations.
Message-ID: 

Xah's Edu Corner: The importance of syntax & notations.

http://www.stephenwolfram.com/publications/recent/mathml/mathml_abstract.html

this article should teach the coding sophomorons and computer
?science? idiotic authors who harbor the notion that syntax is not
important, picked up by all the elite i-reddit & twittering &  hacker
news am-hip dunces.

Further readings:

? The TeX Pestilence
  http://xahlee.org/cmaci/notation/TeX_pestilence.html

? A Notation for Plane Geometry
  http://xahlee.org/cmaci/notation/plane_geometry_notation.html

? The Concepts and Confusions of Prefix, Infix, Postfix and Fully
Nested Notations
  http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/notations.html

? The Problems of Traditional Math Notation
  http://xahlee.org/cmaci/notation/trad_math_notation.html

  Xah
? http://xahlee.org/

?


From timr at probo.com  Sun Aug 16 02:07:07 2009
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 23:07:07 -0700
Subject: Pygresql, and query meta informations
References: <55aceb1c-b3d9-4f9b-b8cf-d9833edb2660@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <368f85prhp9d349trtooj5qsqmqmip0qqp@4ax.com>

durumdara  wrote:
>
>Pygresql, DB-API.
>
>I search for a solution to get meta information about last query,
>because I must export these infos to Delphi.
>
>Delphi have TDataSet, and it have meta structure that must be defined
>before I create it.
>For char/varchar fields I must define their sizes!
>
>Pygresql is not retreive the field sizes.

You should be able to get that information from the .description member of
the cursor object.  Have you checked it?

If not, you will have to use fetch the information from the
Postgres-specific tables, pg_class and pg_attribute.  pg_class contains
information about your tables; when you fetch the class number for your
table, you can look up the columns in pg_attribute.
-- 
Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From nagle at animats.com  Sun Aug 16 02:20:34 2009
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 23:20:34 -0700
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a Serial
	port?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<4vmil6-ait.ln1@nb2.stroeder.com>
	
Message-ID: <4a87a444$0$1627$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:
> On Saturday 15 August 2009 14:40:35 Michael Str?der wrote:
>> Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:
>>> In the past, on this  group, I have made statements that said that on
>>> Linux, the serial port handling somehow does not allow transmitting and
>>> receiving at the same time, and nobody contradicted me.

     Absolutely false.

>> Despite all the good comments here by other skilled people I'd recommend to
>> determine whether the transmission line to the devices accessed support
>> full duplex.

     All standard PC serial ports are full-duplex devices.

     Here's a program I wrote which uses "pyserial" to drive Baudot teletypes
as full-duplex devices.

	https://sourceforge.net/projects/baudotrss/

This uses an input thread and an output thread.  It reads RSS feeds and
prints them on antique Teletype machines.  (Reuters RSS feeds produce
a classic news ticker.  Twitter RSS feeds work but look silly when
hammered out on yellow paper at 45.45 baud.)
> 
> You raise a good point, that is probably not well known amongst the youngsters 
> here, as simple serial multidropping has gone out of fashion.

     Actually, no.  Dynamixel servos as used on the latest Bioloid robots
are multidrop serial RS-485.  But outside the embedded world, nobody uses
that stuff any more.  (Embedded is going Ethernet; it's overkill but
works fine and is now cheap.)

					John Nagle


From emmanuel.surleau at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 02:30:54 2009
From: emmanuel.surleau at gmail.com (Emmanuel Surleau)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 08:30:54 +0200
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
In-Reply-To: <4A8612CE.7080700@stoneleaf.us>
References: <24980842.post@talk.nabble.com> <4A8612CE.7080700@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <200908160830.55031.emmanuel.surleau@gmail.com>

> Dr. Phillip M. Feldman wrote:

[snip]

> > def is_prime(n):
> >    for j in range(2,n):
> >       if (n % j) == 0: return False
> >    return True
> >
> > It seems as though Python is actually expanding range(2,n) into a list of
> > numbers, even though this is incredibly wasteful of memory. There should
> > be a looping mechanism that generates the index variable values
> > incrementally as they are needed.
>
> You already have an answer to the range issue, so I will only add that
> putting a loop inside another loop is a decent way to expand the time
> taken.
>
> I will also observe that if you were to stop programming whatever
> language you are more familiar with in Python, and start programming
> Python in Python, you'll have an easier time of it.

I don't see what's particularly un-Pythonic with this code. Not using xrange() 
is a mistake, certainly, but it remains clear, easily understandable code 
which correctly demonstrates the naive algorithm for detecting whether n is a 
prime. It doesn't call for condescension

> The Dive Into Python is an excellent start for that.

I never read it, but I was under the impression that the tutorial on 
python.org was geared toward programmers moving to Python from other 
languages. It was also my impression that Dive Into Python is rather outdated 
and occasionally inaccurate (based on comments on this mailing list).

Cheers,

Emm


From dmitrey.kroshko at scipy.org  Sun Aug 16 02:36:56 2009
From: dmitrey.kroshko at scipy.org (dmitrey)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 23:36:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: "for" cycle with assigning index
References: <4149f0b2-603d-4c59-aa34-bd0fd826303c@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <7eac79f9-8b38-4aa6-8bd7-4dc042037b31@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>

Thanks all, especially Dennis for your detailed answer.
left_arr_indexes is list of nonnegative integers, eg [0,0,0,1,1,4]
IndDict is a dict like {0: [1,2], 3: [0,1], 10:[0,2,3]}, so that's why
I don't use python list instead.
The code is taken from OpenOpt framework that I develop. Currently I
have implemented another workaround but the solution you proposed can
be used in other parts of code.
Regards, D.

On Aug 16, 4:23?am, Dennis Lee Bieber  wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 13:22:08 -0700, Dennis Lee Bieber
>  declaimed the following in
> gmane.comp.python.general:
>
> ? ? ? ? Okay -- my lack of experience with lambda shows... forgot to guard
> the intermediates...
>
> > > for i in xrange(len(Funcs2)):
> > > ? ? ?Funcs.append(lambda i=i,*args, **kwargs: (Funcs2[i](*args,
> > > **kwargs)[IndDict[left_arr_indexes[i]]]))
>
> > > I get "list indices must be integers, not dict" (and i is equal to
> > > Python dictionary, that is Funcs2)
>
> ? ? ? ? So... with the following assumptions (and ignoring all the other
> respondents )...
>
> 1) ? ? ?Funcs2 IS a dictionary keyed by sequential integers starting at 0
> 2) ? ? ?Order in Funcs matters; that is, the first element of the list must
> align with the element of the dictionary having key "0"
> 3) ? ? ?IndDict and left_arr_indexes DO NOT CHANGE CONTENT after the loop
> runs
> 4) ? ? ?left_arr_indexes is at least as long as Funcs2
>
> assert (min(Funcs2.keys()) == 0
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? and
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? max(Funcs2.keys()) == (len(Funcs2) - 1)) ? ? ? ?#1
> assert len(left_arr_indexes) >= len(Funcs2) ? ? ? ? ?#4
>
> Funcs = [None] * len(Funcs2) ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?#2a
> for ki, fv in Funcs2.items(): ? #ki->key as index; fv->function value
> ? ? ? ? ritmp = IndDict[left_arr_indexes[ki]] ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? #3
> ? ? ? ? Funcs[ki] = (lambda ri=ritmp, fn=fv, *args, **kwargs:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? (fn(*args, **kwargs)[ri]) ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? #2b
>
> ri and fn used to protect the intermediates, ritmp and fv, from changes
>
> 2a is needed as the order of .items() is undefined, so .append() can not
> be used. This presets the result list size permitting direct indexing
> (2b) to fill slots in order.
>
> #1 can still fail itself if a key is NOT an integer (what is the min()
> of 0 and "a")
>
> ? ? ? ? I still don't know if IndDict is really a list or a dictionary, nor
> what left_array_indexes contains (by name, it is a list of values to
> index into another list -- but could be a list of keys to access a
> dictionary)
>
> ? ? ? ? And I'll reiterate: if you are using dictionaries in which the keys
> are sequential integers starting at 0... Replace them with simple
> lists...
> --
> ? ? ? ? Wulfraed ? ? ? ? Dennis Lee Bieber ? ? ? ? ? ? ? KD6MOG
> ? ? ? ? wlfr... at ix.netcom.com ? ? ?HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/



From mail at microcorp.co.za  Sun Aug 16 03:24:36 2009
From: mail at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 09:24:36 +0200
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in
	string literals]
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com><02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com><5fcd454d-14b4-452b-91d3-938e9fa0bd18@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com><02975ce6$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<029783cd$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <009f01ca1e42$9c833600$0d00a8c0@Hendrik>


>"Steven D'Aprano"  wrote:

>Now that I understand what the semantics of cout << "Hello world" are, I 
>don't have any problem with it either. It is a bit weird, "Hello world" 
>>> cout would probably be better, but it's hardly the strangest design in 
>any programming language, and it's probably influenced by input 
>redirection using < in various shells.

I find it strange that you would prefer:

"Hello world" >> cout 
over:
cout << "Hello world" 

The latter seems to me to be more in line with normal assignment: -
Take what is on the right and make the left the same.
I suppose it is because we read from left to right that the first one seems 
better to you.
Another instance of how different we all are.

It goes down to the assembler - there are two schools:

    mov    a,b      - for Intel like languages, this means move b to a
    mov    a,b      - for Motorola like languages, this means move a to b

Gets confusing sometimes.

- Hendrik





From jcm1981 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 03:57:41 2009
From: jcm1981 at gmail.com (Chang Min Jeon)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 16:57:41 +0900
Subject: my recursive function call is wrong?
Message-ID: <22a413260908160057t2802d3cci70658278e7322eb8@mail.gmail.com>

I'm trying to write program to translate define macro in 'C'.
And start_parse has return condition that list's length is 0.
At this time return statement invoke start_parse() function.
I can't understand do that.

I'm using Python 2.6.2 in Windows XP

import re
import sys
comment = '''
#if defined (FEATURE_ONENESTED)
#    define PYTHON_POWERED
#    if defined(ANY_LANGUAGE)
#        error
#    endif
#else
#    define FEATURE_NONE
#endif
'''

symbol_table = ['FEATURE_ONENESTED']

valid_area = False

p_define = re.compile('^[\t ]*#[\t ]*define[\t ]+([a-zA-Z0-9_]+)[\t ]*')
p_if = re.compile('^[\t ]*#[\t ]*if[\t
]+defined[\s]*[\(]*([a-zA-Z0-9_]+)[\)]*[\t ]*')
p_elif = re.compile('^[\t ]*#[\t ]*elif[\t ]*')
p_else = re.compile('^[\t ]*#[\t ]*else[\t ]*')
p_endif = re.compile('^[\t ]*#[\t ]*endif[\t ]*')

def start_parse(macro):
    global valid_area
    if len(macro) == 0:
        return

    if valid_area == True:

        if p_else.match(macro[0]):
            valid_area = False
            macro.pop(0)
            start_parse(macro)

        match = p_define.match(macro[0])
        if match:
            symbol_table.append(match.group(1))
            macro.pop(0)
            start_parse(macro)


    match = p_if.match(macro[0])
    if match:
        for symbol in symbol_table:#print match.group(1)
            if match.group(1) == symbol:
                #print match.group(1)
                valid_area = True
            else:
                valid_area = False

    if p_else.match(macro[0]):
        macro.pop(0)
        start_parse(macro)

    match = p_endif.match(macro[0])
    if match:
        valid_area = False

    macro.pop(0)
    start_parse(macro)

if __name__ == '__main__':
    l = comment.splitlines()
    start_parse(l)
    print symbol_table
-- 
CashFlow
To be rich.
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From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sun Aug 16 04:04:59 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 04:04:59 -0400
Subject: What happened to __cmp__() in Python 3.x?
In-Reply-To: <2d56febf0908150509k1b6a3b98j7e76ae6596108280@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2d56febf0908150509k1b6a3b98j7e76ae6596108280@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908160104k7d74ace9jda8f4b927402942@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 8:09 AM, Xavier Ho wrote:
> Hey all,
>
> I've recently made my way to Python 3.1 and I'm not seeing __cmp__() in the
> documentation.
>
> Is there a substitution for this special method in 3.1, or do I really have
> to define all six rich comparison methods to work it out?

I don't think so. Quoting
http://docs.python.org/dev/py3k/reference/datamodel.html

"There are no swapped-argument versions of [the comparison] methods
(to be used when the left argument does not support the operation but
the right argument does); rather, __lt__() and __gt__() are each
other?s reflection, __le__() and __ge__() are each other?s reflection,
and __eq__() and __ne__() are their own reflection."

I believe this means you only need to define one method from each of
the following pairs to get all the operators working:
* __eq__ or __ne__
* __lt__ or __gt__
* __ge__ or __le__

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sun Aug 16 04:07:20 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 04:07:20 -0400
Subject: What happened to __cmp__() in Python 3.x?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <2d56febf0908150509k1b6a3b98j7e76ae6596108280@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908160107k6f31141dt5143071d0ff54c71@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 1:06 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
> Xavier Ho wrote:
>>
>> Hey all,
>>
>> I've recently made my way to Python 3.1 and I'm not seeing __cmp__() in
>> the
>> documentation.
>>
>> Is there a substitution for this special method in 3.1, or do I really
>> have
>> to define all six rich comparison methods to work it out?
>>
>> If this question has already been asked somewhere, I apologise in advance.
>> Already googled around but I didn't find information on this.
>>
>> Any replies appreciated.
>>
> http://bytes.com/topic/python/answers/844614-python-3-sorting-comparison-function

That seems to be about the built-in function cmp(). The OP was asking
about the special method __cmp__ and the related rich comparison
special methods (__eq__, __lt__, etc).

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sun Aug 16 04:15:43 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 04:15:43 -0400
Subject: random.gauss vs. random.normalvariate
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<89df98da-cdaf-4422-9bc0-c0b46ebefcda@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
	
	<7xd46ws86b.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908160115l2db5fe2eo4c665a3a83c4a8@mail.gmail.com>

> On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 10:18 PM, Paul Rubin 
> wrote:
>>
>> Dennis Lee Bieber  writes:
>> > ? ? ? No language can guard against independent access of a
>> > shared/global
>> > object by multiple threads...
>>
>> Erlang?

On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 12:23 AM, John Haggerty wrote:
> Erlang I assume is a computer programming language?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erlang_(programming_language)

There's a reason Wikipedia has a search function... :)

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Aug 16 04:22:58 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 16 Aug 2009 08:22:58 GMT
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in
	string literals]
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	
	
	<5fcd454d-14b4-452b-91d3-938e9fa0bd18@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<02975ce6$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<029783cd$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <0297b230$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 09:24:36 +0200, Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:

>>"Steven D'Aprano"  wrote:
> 
>>Now that I understand what the semantics of cout << "Hello world" are, I
>>don't have any problem with it either. It is a bit weird, "Hello world"
>>>> cout would probably be better, but it's hardly the strangest design
>>>> in
>>any programming language, and it's probably influenced by input
>>redirection using < in various shells.
> 
> I find it strange that you would prefer:
> 
> "Hello world" >> cout
> over:
> cout << "Hello world"
> 
> The latter seems to me to be more in line with normal assignment: - Take
> what is on the right and make the left the same. 

I don't like normal assignment. After nearly four decades of mathematics 
and programming, I'm used to it, but I don't think it is especially good. 
It confuses beginners to programming: they get one set of behaviour 
drilled into them in maths class, and then in programming class we use 
the same notation for something which is almost, but not quite, the same. 
Consider the difference between:

y = 3 + x
x = z

as a pair of mathematics expressions versus as a pair of assignments. 
What conclusion can you draw about y and z?

Even though it looks funny due to unfamiliarity, I'd love to see the 
results of a teaching language that used notation like:

3 + x -> y
len(alist) -> n
Widget(1, 2, 3).magic -> obj
etc.

for assignment. My prediction is that it would be easier to learn, and 
just as good for experienced coders. The only downside (apart from 
unfamiliarity) is that it would be a little bit harder to find the 
definition of a variable by visually skimming lines of code: your eyes 
have to zig-zag back and forth to find the end of the line, instead of 
running straight down the left margin looking for "myvar = ...". But it 
should be easy enough to search for "-> myvar".


> I suppose it is because
> we read from left to right that the first one seems better to you.

Probably.


-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Aug 16 04:32:35 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 16 Aug 2009 08:32:35 GMT
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
References: <24980842.post@talk.nabble.com> <4A8612CE.7080700@stoneleaf.us>
	
Message-ID: <0297b471$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 08:30:54 +0200, Emmanuel Surleau wrote:

[...]
>> I will also observe that if you were to stop programming whatever
>> language you are more familiar with in Python, and start programming
>> Python in Python, you'll have an easier time of it.
> 
> I don't see what's particularly un-Pythonic with this code. Not using
> xrange() is a mistake, certainly, but it remains clear, easily
> understandable code which correctly demonstrates the naive algorithm for
> detecting whether n is a prime. It doesn't call for condescension

It's a particular unfair criticism because the critic (Ethan Furman) 
appears to have made a knee-jerk reaction. The "some language in Python" 
behaviour he's reacting to is the common idiom:

for i in range(len(seq)):
    do_something_with(seq[i])


instead of the "Python in Python" idiom:

for obj in seq:
    do_something_with(obj)


That's a reasonable criticism, but *not in the case*. Ethan appears to 
have made the knee-jerk reaction "for i in range() is Bad" without 
stopping to think about what this specific piece of code is actually 
doing.

(Replace 'obj' with 'j', 'seq' with 'range(2, n)', and 
'do_something_with' with 'if (n % j) == 0: return False', and you have 
the exact same code pattern.)


-- 
Steven


From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 04:41:41 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 01:41:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in 
	string literals]
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> 
	
	
	 
	
	<5fcd454d-14b4-452b-91d3-938e9fa0bd18@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<02975ce6$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<029783cd$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	 
	<0297b230$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <74a3f562-6209-485e-9fbb-145ec00c331c@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 16, 4:22?am, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:

> I don't like normal assignment. After nearly four decades of mathematics
> and programming, I'm used to it, but I don't think it is especially good.
> It confuses beginners to programming: they get one set of behaviour
> drilled into them in maths class, and then in programming class we use
> the same notation for something which is almost, but not quite, the same.
> Consider the difference between:
>
> y = 3 + x
> x = z
>
> as a pair of mathematics expressions versus as a pair of assignments.
> What conclusion can you draw about y and z?

Yeah, the syntax most commonly used for assignment today sucks. In the
past, it was common to see languages with syntaxes like

   y <- y + 1

or

   y := y + 1

or

   let y = y + 1

But these languages have mostly fallen out of favor. The popular
statistical programming language R still uses the

   y <- y + 1

syntax, though.

Personally, my favorite is Lisp, which looks like

   (set! y (+ y 1))

or

   (let ((x 3)
         (y 4))
     (foo x y))

I like to be able to read everything from left to right, and Lisp does
that more than any other programming language.

I would definitely not like a language that obscures assignment by
moving it over to the right side of lines.

|>ouglas



From max at alcyone.com  Sun Aug 16 04:46:11 2009
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 01:46:11 -0700
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in
	string literals]
In-Reply-To: <0297b230$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>		<02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>					<5fcd454d-14b4-452b-91d3-938e9fa0bd18@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>	<02975ce6$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>		<029783cd$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	
	<0297b230$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> I don't like normal assignment. After nearly four decades of mathematics 
> and programming, I'm used to it, but I don't think it is especially good. 
> It confuses beginners to programming: they get one set of behaviour 
> drilled into them in maths class, and then in programming class we use 
> the same notation for something which is almost, but not quite, the same. 
> Consider the difference between:
> 
> y = 3 + x
> x = z
> 
> as a pair of mathematics expressions versus as a pair of assignments. 
> What conclusion can you draw about y and z?

What you're saying is true, but it's still a matter of terminology.  The 
symbol "=" means different things in different contexts, and mathematics 
and programming are very different ones indeed.  The problem is 
compounded with early languages which lazily confused the two in 
different context, such as (but not exclusive to) BASIC using = for both 
assignment and equality testing in what are in esssence totally 
unrelated contexts.

> Even though it looks funny due to unfamiliarity, I'd love to see the 
> results of a teaching language that used notation like:
> 
> 3 + x -> y
> len(alist) -> n
> Widget(1, 2, 3).magic -> obj
> etc.
> 
> for assignment. My prediction is that it would be easier to learn, and 
> just as good for experienced coders.

This really isn't new at all.  Reverse the arrow and the relationship to 
get::

	y <- x + 3

(and use a real arrow rather than ASCII) and that's assignment in APL 
and a common representation in pseudocode ever since.  Change it to := 
and that's what Pascal used, as well as quite a few mathematical papers 
dealing with iterative computations, I might add.

Once you get past the point of realizing that you really need to make a 
distinction between assignment and equality testing, then it's just a 
matter of choosing two different operators for the job.  Whether it's 
<-/= or :=/= or =/== or ->/= (with reversed behavior for assignment) is 
really academic and a matter of taste at that point.

Given the history of programming languages, it doesn't really look like 
the to-be-assigned variable being at the end of expression is going to 
get much play, since not a single major one I'm familiar with does it 
that way, and a lot of them have come up with the same convention 
independently and haven't seen a need to change.

-- 
Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
  San Jose, CA, USA && 37 18 N 121 57 W && AIM/Y!M/Skype erikmaxfrancis
   Get there first with the most men.
    -- Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest, 1821-1877


From max at alcyone.com  Sun Aug 16 04:48:15 2009
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 01:48:15 -0700
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in
	string literals]
In-Reply-To: <74a3f562-6209-485e-9fbb-145ec00c331c@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	
	
	<5fcd454d-14b4-452b-91d3-938e9fa0bd18@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<02975ce6$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<029783cd$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<0297b230$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<74a3f562-6209-485e-9fbb-145ec00c331c@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Douglas Alan wrote:
> Personally, my favorite is Lisp, which looks like
> 
>    (set! y (+ y 1))

For varying values of "Lisp."  `set!` is Scheme.

-- 
Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
  San Jose, CA, USA && 37 18 N 121 57 W && AIM/Y!M/Skype erikmaxfrancis
   Get there first with the most men.
    -- Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest, 1821-1877


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Sun Aug 16 05:25:02 2009
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 16 Aug 2009 09:25:02 GMT
Subject: ignored test cases in unittest
References: 
	<873a7so66v.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: 

Ben Finney  wrote:

> Terry  writes:
> 
>> It seemed the to me that python unittest module does not support the
>> counting of ignored test cases directly. Is there any ready solution
>> for this?
> 
> One solution I've seen involves:
> 
> * a custom exception class, ???TestSkipped???
> 
> * raising that exception at the top of test cases you want to
>   temporarily skip
> 
> * a custom ???TestResult??? class that knows about a ???skipped??? result
> 
> * a custom reporter class that knows how you want to report that result
> 

I'd add to that a decorator so you can quickly mark a test case as ignored 
without editing the test itself. Also you could include a reason why it is 
ignored:

 @ignore("This test takes too long to run")
 def test_foo(self):
    ...

That also means you can redefine the decorator easily if you want to try 
running all the ignored tests.

Another decorator useful here is one that asserts that the test will fail. 
If the test passes then maybe someone fixed whatever was making it fail and 
if so you want to consider re-enabling it.

 @fails("Needs the frobnozz module to be updated")
 def test_whotsit(self):
    ...


From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 05:31:55 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 02:31:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in 
	string literals]
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> 
	
	
	 
	
	<5fcd454d-14b4-452b-91d3-938e9fa0bd18@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<02975ce6$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<029783cd$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	 
	<0297b230$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<74a3f562-6209-485e-9fbb-145ec00c331c@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <523a62c0-2c5f-4027-944a-7edb0d4693d8@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 16, 4:48?am, Erik Max Francis  wrote:
> Douglas Alan wrote:
> > Personally, my favorite is Lisp, which looks like
>
> > ? ?(set! y (+ y 1))
>
> For varying values of "Lisp." ?`set!` is Scheme.

Yes, I'm well aware!

There are probably as many different dialects of Lisp as all other
programming languages put together.

|>ouglas


From terry.yinzhe at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 05:38:20 2009
From: terry.yinzhe at gmail.com (Terry)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 02:38:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ignored test cases in unittest
References: 
	<873a7so66v.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
Message-ID: <56527679-4cec-49a1-9b46-c38de8f981c8@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 16, 5:25?pm, Duncan Booth  wrote:
> Ben Finney  wrote:
> > Terry  writes:
>
> >> It seemed the to me that python unittest module does not support the
> >> counting of ignored test cases directly. Is there any ready solution
> >> for this?
>
> > One solution I've seen involves:
>
> > * a custom exception class, ?TestSkipped?
>
> > * raising that exception at the top of test cases you want to
> > ? temporarily skip
>
> > * a custom ?TestResult? class that knows about a ?skipped? result
>
> > * a custom reporter class that knows how you want to report that result
>
> I'd add to that a decorator so you can quickly mark a test case as ignored
> without editing the test itself. Also you could include a reason why it is
> ignored:
>
> ?@ignore("This test takes too long to run")
> ?def test_foo(self):
> ? ? ...
>
> That also means you can redefine the decorator easily if you want to try
> running all the ignored tests.
>
> Another decorator useful here is one that asserts that the test will fail.
> If the test passes then maybe someone fixed whatever was making it fail and
> if so you want to consider re-enabling it.
>
> ?@fails("Needs the frobnozz module to be updated")
> ?def test_whotsit(self):
> ? ? ...

Thanks for the solutions. I think the decorator idea is what I'm look
for:-)





From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Aug 16 05:38:50 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 10:38:50 +0100
Subject: What happened to __cmp__() in Python 3.x?
In-Reply-To: <50697b2c0908160107k6f31141dt5143071d0ff54c71@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2d56febf0908150509k1b6a3b98j7e76ae6596108280@mail.gmail.com>	
	<50697b2c0908160107k6f31141dt5143071d0ff54c71@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

Chris Rebert wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 1:06 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
>> Xavier Ho wrote:
>>> Hey all,
>>>
>>> I've recently made my way to Python 3.1 and I'm not seeing __cmp__() in
>>> the
>>> documentation.
>>>
>>> Is there a substitution for this special method in 3.1, or do I really
>>> have
>>> to define all six rich comparison methods to work it out?
>>>
>>> If this question has already been asked somewhere, I apologise in advance.
>>> Already googled around but I didn't find information on this.
>>>
>>> Any replies appreciated.
>>>
>> http://bytes.com/topic/python/answers/844614-python-3-sorting-comparison-function
> 
> That seems to be about the built-in function cmp(). The OP was asking
> about the special method __cmp__ and the related rich comparison
> special methods (__eq__, __lt__, etc).
> 
> Cheers,
> Chris
Blast, I posted the wrong flaming link, sorry everybody.

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From contact at xavierho.com  Sun Aug 16 05:45:42 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 19:45:42 +1000
Subject: What happened to __cmp__() in Python 3.x?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <2d56febf0908150509k1b6a3b98j7e76ae6596108280@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<50697b2c0908160107k6f31141dt5143071d0ff54c71@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908160245i5fd0d9f2kba74d112f0826932@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 7:38 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:

>
> Blast, I posted the wrong flaming link, sorry everybody.
>

No, don't be sorry. I found your link very informative, and while it's a
little mixed, it could be useful.

I'm really looking for a way to set up Python classes' natural ordering for
sorting purposes. For example, every object of a class could own an
attribute called 'Value'. If I could get Python to sort() a list of classes
with that value, would the key=value parameter work, and is there a better
way than to redefine 3 or more of the rich comparison special methods, etc.

Also, I noticed heapq (the priority queue/heap queue module) doesn't use the
natural sorting order like sorted() does. Just saying. Could someone give it
a try?

Regards,

Ching-Yun "Xavier" Ho, Technical Artist

Contact Information
Mobile: (+61) 04 3335 4748
Skype ID: SpaXe85
Email: contact at xavierho.com
Website: http://xavierho.com/
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From gregor.lingl at aon.at  Sun Aug 16 05:46:19 2009
From: gregor.lingl at aon.at (Gregor Lingl)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 11:46:19 +0200
Subject: Splitting a string into substrings of equal size
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4a85ffe2$0$24643$426a34cc@news.free.fr>	<4a87036a$0$2292$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>
	
Message-ID: <4a87d56b$0$1540$91cee783@newsreader04.highway.telekom.at>

Mark Tolonen schrieb:
> 
> "Gregor Lingl"  wrote in message 
> news:4a87036a$0$2292$91cee783 at newsreader02.highway.telekom.at...
>> Emile van Sebille schrieb:
>>> On 8/14/2009 5:22 PM candide said...
>> ...
>>>> What is the pythonic way to do this ?
>>>
>>> I like list comps...
>>>
>>>  >>> jj = '1234567890123456789'
>>>  >>> ",".join([jj[ii:ii+3] for ii in range(0,len(jj),3)])
>>> '123,456,789,012,345,678,9'
>>>  >>>
>>>
>>> Emile
>>>
>>
>> Less beautiful but more correct:
>>
>> >>> ",".join([jj[max(ii-3,0):ii] for ii in
>>                              range(len(jj)%3,len(jj)+3,3)])
>> '1,234,567,890,123,456,789'
>>
>> Gregor
> 
> Is it?
> 
>>>> jj = '234567890123456789'
>>>> ",".join([jj[max(ii-3,0):ii] for ii in range(len(jj)%3,len(jj)+3,3)])
> ',234,567,890,123,456,789'

Schluck!

Even more ugly:

  ",".join([jj[max(ii-3,0):ii] for ii in
                                range(len(jj)%3,len(jj)+3,3)]).strip(",")
'234,567,890,123,456,789'

Gregor

> 
> At least one other solution in this thread had the same problem.
> 
> -Mark
> 
> 


From terry.yinzhe at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 05:47:42 2009
From: terry.yinzhe at gmail.com (Terry)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 02:47:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: flatten a list of list
Message-ID: <9c972b02-3c30-4fad-95bd-cf6165913d6b@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

Is there a simple way (the pythonic way) to flatten a list of list?
rather than my current solution:

new_list=[]
for l in list_of_list:
    new_list.extend(l)

or,

new_list=reduce(lambda x,y:x.extend(y), list_of_list)

br, Terry


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sun Aug 16 05:55:48 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 05:55:48 -0400
Subject: flatten a list of list
In-Reply-To: <9c972b02-3c30-4fad-95bd-cf6165913d6b@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <9c972b02-3c30-4fad-95bd-cf6165913d6b@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908160255v10bfa290jd7ca1ea8635eadbb@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 5:47 AM, Terry wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Is there a simple way (the pythonic way) to flatten a list of list?
> rather than my current solution:
>
> new_list=[]
> for l in list_of_list:
> ? ?new_list.extend(l)
>
> or,
>
> new_list=reduce(lambda x,y:x.extend(y), list_of_list)

#only marginally better:
from operator import add
new_list = reduce(add, list_of_list)

#from the itertools recipes:
from itertools import chain
def flatten(listOfLists):
    return list(chain.from_iterable(listOfLists))

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From foetsch at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 16 06:03:53 2009
From: foetsch at yahoo.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_F=F6tsch?=)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 12:03:53 +0200
Subject: flatten a list of list
In-Reply-To: <9c972b02-3c30-4fad-95bd-cf6165913d6b@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <9c972b02-3c30-4fad-95bd-cf6165913d6b@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A87D989.2030508@yahoo.com>

Terry wrote:
> Is there a simple way (the pythonic way) to flatten a list of list?

This is probably the shortest it can get:

sum(list_of_lists, [])


Kind Regards,
M.F.


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Aug 16 06:18:11 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 16 Aug 2009 10:18:11 GMT
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in 
	string literals]
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	
	
	<5fcd454d-14b4-452b-91d3-938e9fa0bd18@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<02975ce6$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<029783cd$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<0297b230$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<74a3f562-6209-485e-9fbb-145ec00c331c@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0297cd31$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 01:41:41 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:

> I like to be able to read everything from left to right, and Lisp does
> that more than any other programming language.
> 
> I would definitely not like a language that obscures assignment by
> moving it over to the right side of lines.

One could argue that left-assigned-from-right assignment obscures the 
most important part of the assignment, namely *what* you're assigning, in 
favour of what you're assigning *to*.

In any case, after half a century of left-from-right assignment, I think 
it's worth the experiment in a teaching language or three to try it the 
other way. The closest to this I know of is the family of languages 
derived from Apple's Hypertalk, where you do assignment with:

put somevalue into name

(Doesn't COBOL do something similar?)

Beginners found that *very* easy to understand, and it didn't seem to 
make coding harder for experienced Hypercard developers.



-- 
Steven


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Sun Aug 16 06:19:51 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 03:19:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: wxFormBuilder finally supports wxPython
Message-ID: 

Version 3.1 of wxFormBuilder can generate wxPython code. I have
previously used wxFormBuilder to generate XRC files for my wxPython
projects. Though still in beta, this might be even better. :-)


http://wxformbuilder.org/


From mail at johannes-janssen.de  Sun Aug 16 06:25:46 2009
From: mail at johannes-janssen.de (Johannes Janssen)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 12:25:46 +0200
Subject: How to find out in which module an instance of a class is created?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4A7F4874.8030008@johannes-janssen.de>	<4A7F6016.2060408@cheimes.de>
	<4A80967F.9030604@johannes-janssen.de>
	
Message-ID: <4A87DEAA.3020309@johannes-janssen.de>

Gabriel Genellina schrieb:
> The try/except around sys._getframe(1) is because that function is not 
> mandatory/available on all Python implementations (that's the case for 
> jython which doesn't provide it).

Thanks, shouldn't such information be part of the python documentation 
of sys._getframe() 
(http://docs.python.org/library/sys.html?highlight=sys._getframe#sys._getframe)?

Johannes


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sun Aug 16 06:30:54 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 06:30:54 -0400
Subject: How to find out in which module an instance of a class is 
	created?
In-Reply-To: <4A87DEAA.3020309@johannes-janssen.de>
References: <4A7F4874.8030008@johannes-janssen.de>
	<4A7F6016.2060408@cheimes.de> <4A80967F.9030604@johannes-janssen.de>
	
	<4A87DEAA.3020309@johannes-janssen.de>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908160330p43397ac7g86d7e9010cb90d25@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 6:25 AM, Johannes
Janssen wrote:
> Gabriel Genellina schrieb:
>>
>> The try/except around sys._getframe(1) is because that function is not
>> mandatory/available on all Python implementations (that's the case for
>> jython which doesn't provide it).
>
> Thanks, shouldn't such information be part of the python documentation of
> sys._getframe()
> (http://docs.python.org/library/sys.html?highlight=sys._getframe#sys._getframe)?

The leading underscore kinda indirectly implies it, but yeah, it's
worth mentioning.
File a bug in the docs: http://bugs.python.org/

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Aug 16 06:49:59 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 16 Aug 2009 10:49:59 GMT
Subject: flatten a list of list
References: <9c972b02-3c30-4fad-95bd-cf6165913d6b@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <0297d4a6$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 05:55:48 -0400, Chris Rebert wrote:

> On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 5:47 AM, Terry wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Is there a simple way (the pythonic way) to flatten a list of list?
>> rather than my current solution:
>>
>> new_list=[]
>> for l in list_of_list:
>> ? ?new_list.extend(l)
>>
>> or,
>>
>> new_list=reduce(lambda x,y:x.extend(y), list_of_list)
> 
> #only marginally better:
> from operator import add
> new_list = reduce(add, list_of_list)

Surely that's going to be O(N**2)?

I'd predict that would perform even worse than O(N**2) string 
concatenation, on account that a string of size N has to allocate space 
for N bytes, but a list of size N allocates space for N pointers (each 4 
bytes, or 8 depending on the system), rounded up to the nearest power of 
two. Also CPython can optimize string concatenation to O(N) under some 
circumstances, but not lists.


>>> from timeit import Timer
>>> setup = """\\
... L = [ ([None]*5000) for x in xrange(%d) ]
... from operator import add
... """
>>> Timer("reduce(add, L)", setup % 4).repeat(number=1000)
[0.53808808326721191, 0.51404905319213867, 0.51157188415527344]
>>> Timer("reduce(add, L)", setup % 8).repeat(number=1000)
[2.1178171634674072, 3.8830602169036865, 4.72245192527771]
>>> Timer("reduce(add, L)", setup % 16).repeat(number=1000)
[17.190337896347046, 21.572744131088257, 21.584265947341919]


Looks like O(N**2) behaviour to me.



-- 
Steven


From mail at johannes-janssen.de  Sun Aug 16 06:50:27 2009
From: mail at johannes-janssen.de (Johannes Janssen)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 12:50:27 +0200
Subject: How to find out in which module an instance of a class is created?
In-Reply-To: <50697b2c0908160330p43397ac7g86d7e9010cb90d25@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4A7F4874.8030008@johannes-janssen.de>	
	<4A7F6016.2060408@cheimes.de>
	<4A80967F.9030604@johannes-janssen.de>	
		
	<4A87DEAA.3020309@johannes-janssen.de>
	<50697b2c0908160330p43397ac7g86d7e9010cb90d25@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A87E473.7010606@johannes-janssen.de>

Chris Rebert schrieb:
> On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 6:25 AM, Johannes
> Janssen wrote:
>   
>> Gabriel Genellina schrieb:
>>     
>>> The try/except around sys._getframe(1) is because that function is not
>>> mandatory/available on all Python implementations (that's the case for
>>> jython which doesn't provide it).
>>>       
>> Thanks, shouldn't such information be part of the python documentation of
>> sys._getframe()
>> (http://docs.python.org/library/sys.html?highlight=sys._getframe#sys._getframe)?
>>     
>
> The leading underscore kinda indirectly implies it, but yeah, it's
> worth mentioning.
> File a bug in the docs: http://bugs.python.org/
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
>   
I filed a bug: http://bugs.python.org/issue6712 .

Johannes


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sun Aug 16 06:59:52 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 06:59:52 -0400
Subject: flatten a list of list
In-Reply-To: <0297d4a6$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <9c972b02-3c30-4fad-95bd-cf6165913d6b@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<0297d4a6$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908160359u6c8cb593r627651a80017394e@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 6:49 AM, Steven
D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 05:55:48 -0400, Chris Rebert wrote:
>> On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 5:47 AM, Terry wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Is there a simple way (the pythonic way) to flatten a list of list?
>>> rather than my current solution:
>>>
>>> new_list=[]
>>> for l in list_of_list:
>>> ? ?new_list.extend(l)
>>>
>>> or,
>>>
>>> new_list=reduce(lambda x,y:x.extend(y), list_of_list)
>>
>> #only marginally better:
>> from operator import add
>> new_list = reduce(add, list_of_list)
>
> Surely that's going to be O(N**2)?

The OP asked for "simple", not "best", "most proper", or "fastest". My
comment was intended to mean that the code was marginally *simpler*,
not faster.

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Aug 16 07:08:09 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 16 Aug 2009 11:08:09 GMT
Subject: flatten a list of list
References: <9c972b02-3c30-4fad-95bd-cf6165913d6b@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <0297d8e8$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 12:03:53 +0200, Michael F?tsch wrote:

> Terry wrote:
>> Is there a simple way (the pythonic way) to flatten a list of list?
> 
> This is probably the shortest it can get:
> 
> sum(list_of_lists, [])


That's also O(N**2).


>>> from timeit import Timer
>>> setup = "L = [ ([None]*5000) for x in xrange(%d) ]"
>>> Timer("sum(L, [])", setup % 4).repeat(number=1000)
[0.6070549488067627, 0.54354715347290039, 0.54686999320983887]
>>> Timer("sum(L, [])", setup % 8).repeat(number=1000)
[2.1285719871520996, 3.6722278594970703, 4.0785009860992432]
>>> Timer("sum(L, [])", setup % 16).repeat(number=1000)
[18.370341062545776, 20.40509295463562, 21.871708869934082]



-- 
Steven


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Sun Aug 16 07:15:06 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 13:15:06 +0200
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a Serial
	port? - conclusions
In-Reply-To: <4a87a444$0$1627$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
References: 
	
	<4a87a444$0$1627$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <200908161315.07229.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Sunday 16 August 2009 08:20:34 John Nagle wrote:
> Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:
> > On Saturday 15 August 2009 14:40:35 Michael Str?der wrote:
> >> Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:
> >>> In the past, on this  group, I have made statements that said that on
> >>> Linux, the serial port handling somehow does not allow transmitting and
> >>> receiving at the same time, and nobody contradicted me.
>
>      Absolutely false.

No its true, if you open the serial port  with the standard open() instead of 
os.open().  And it is also true that I was not contradicted in the past. :-)

>
> >> Despite all the good comments here by other skilled people I'd recommend
> >> to determine whether the transmission line to the devices accessed
> >> support full duplex.
>
>      All standard PC serial ports are full-duplex devices.
>
I know this, and I started the thread because they would not work full duplex 
for me.

8< -------------------- pyserial baudot program  link -----------------------

> > You raise a good point, that is probably not well known amongst the
> > youngsters here, as simple serial multidropping has gone out of fashion.
>
>      Actually, no.  Dynamixel servos as used on the latest Bioloid robots
> are multidrop serial RS-485.  But outside the embedded world, nobody uses
> that stuff any more.  (Embedded is going Ethernet; it's overkill but
> works fine and is now cheap.)

Exactly - it is no longer part of mainstream fashion. We also still use RS-485 
because it is cheaper, and we have better control over timing.

I enclose two naive test implementations.
To run them you will need a loopback connector.
One can be made by shorting pin 2 and 3 together on the standard DB9.

The results are illuminating - on my development machine, (dual 64 bit, some 
gigs), the last lines look like this:

test.py:
The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog 1023
That took 3.91238284111 seconds - 3.82068636827 Millisecs per record, 
261.733077152 recs per sec
hvr at Linuxbox:~/dos/JOBS/sms/lib>
   
test1.py:
The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog 1023
That took 3.90402388573 seconds - 3.81252332591 Millisecs per record, 
262.293477185 recs per sec
hvr at Linuxbox:~/dos/JOBS/sms/lib>   

Almost no difference between the two implementations.
This is basically because there is enough processing power to keep the link 
running at full speed in both instances.

On the eBox, (486, 400MHz, 128Mb, no FP), the difference is startling:

test.py:
The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog 1023
That took 69.2863521576 seconds - 67.6624532789 Millisecs per record, 
14.7792453797 recs per sec
root at ebox:/home/user/sms/lib# 

About eighteen times slower than the development machine.

test1.py:
The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog 1023
That took 10.391780138 seconds - 10.148222791 Millisecs per record, 
98.5394211964 recs per sec
root at ebox:/home/user/sms/lib# 

Less than three times slower than the development machine.

The little processor + Slackware + python cannot keep the link busy.
Python, as a character handler, well let us say that it is suboptimal,
because saying that something sucks, sucks.
An almost seven times ratio between the implementations is not to be sneezed 
at.

So the conclusions I have come to are the following:

1)  Thou shalt not use ordinary python files for serial ports, on pain of 
death.
2)  Thou shalt strive mightily to minimize python calls, doing all in thy        
power to move away from character input to string input.
3)  Thou shalt expend real treasure for real processing power as there is no 
such thing as a free lunch.

I would like to thank everybody who took the trouble to respond to teach me 
the error of my ways.

- Hendrik

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From subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 07:19:06 2009
From: subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com (joy99)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 04:19:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Problem Regarding Handling of Unicode string
References: <9ac0e194-9e25-468a-9807-957ef3142dd3@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<47b265c5-e71f-4018-815a-0bfbea927a4a@y28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 11, 1:17?pm, John Machin  wrote:
> On Aug 10, 9:26?pm, joy99  wrote:
>
> > Dear Group,
>
> > I am using Python26 on WindowsXP with service pack2. My GUI is IDLE.
> > I am using Hindi resources and get nice output like:
> > ??
> > where I can use all the re functions and other functions without doing
> > any transliteration,etc.
> > I was trying to use Bengali but it is giving me output like:
>
> WHAT is giving you this output?
>
> > '\xef\xbb\xbf\xe0\xa6\x85\xe0\xa6\xa8\xe0\xa7\x87\xe0\xa6\x95'
>
> In a very ordinary IDLE session (Win XP SP3, Python 2.6.2, locale:
> Australia/English, no "Hindi resources"):
>
> >>> x = '\xef\xbb\xbf\xe0\xa6\x85\xe0\xa6\xa8\xe0\xa7\x87\xe0\xa6\x95'
> >>> ux = x.decode('utf-8')
> >>> ux
>
> u'\ufeff\u0985\u09a8\u09c7\u0995'>>> print ux
>
> ????? # looks like what you wanted; please confirm>>> import unicodedata
> >>> for c in ux:
>
> ? ? ? ? print unicodedata.name(c)
>
> ZERO WIDTH NO-BREAK SPACE # this is a BOM
> BENGALI LETTER A
> BENGALI LETTER NA
> BENGALI VOWEL SIGN E
> BENGALI LETTER KA
>
>
>
> > I wanted to see Bengali output as
> > ????
> > and I like to use all functions including re.
> > If any one can help me on that.
>
> "I am using Hindi resources" doesn't tell us much ... except to prompt
> the comment that perhaps if you want to display Bengali script, you
> may need Bengali resources. However it looks like I can display your
> Bengali data without any special resources.
>
> It seems like you are not doing the same with Bengali as you are doing
> with Hindi. We can't help you very much if you don't show exactly what
> you are doing.
>
> Have you considered asking in an Indian Python forum? Note: you will
> still need to say what you are doing that works with Hindi but not
> with Bengali.
>
> Cheers,
> John

Dear Group,
I have already worked out my solution but everyone of yours' answers
helped me to see different solutions from different angles. Thank you
for the same. I am building some social network program in Bengali. I
just gave the transliteration problem which was giving me problem, I
thought as you are very expert pythoners so it would be minutes'
matter. By your answers I saw I was not wrong. But as I solved the
problem so I checked it bit late. Sorry for the same.
Best Regards,
Subhabrata.


From terry.yinzhe at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 07:22:00 2009
From: terry.yinzhe at gmail.com (Terry)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 04:22:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: flatten a list of list
References: <9c972b02-3c30-4fad-95bd-cf6165913d6b@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<0297d4a6$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 16, 6:59?pm, Chris Rebert  wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 6:49 AM, Steven
>
>
>
>
>
> D'Aprano wrote:
> > On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 05:55:48 -0400, Chris Rebert wrote:
> >> On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 5:47 AM, Terry wrote:
> >>> Hi,
>
> >>> Is there a simple way (the pythonic way) to flatten a list of list?
> >>> rather than my current solution:
>
> >>> new_list=[]
> >>> for l in list_of_list:
> >>> ? ?new_list.extend(l)
>
> >>> or,
>
> >>> new_list=reduce(lambda x,y:x.extend(y), list_of_list)
>
> >> #only marginally better:
> >> from operator import add
> >> new_list = reduce(add, list_of_list)
>
> > Surely that's going to be O(N**2)?
>
> The OP asked for "simple", not "best", "most proper", or "fastest". My
> comment was intended to mean that the code was marginally *simpler*,
> not faster.
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --http://blog.rebertia.com

Well, if possible, I'd like not only to know a simple solution, but
also the 'best', the 'most proper' and the 'fastest':-)

If they are not the same.

br, Terry


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Aug 16 07:25:53 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 16 Aug 2009 11:25:53 GMT
Subject: flatten a list of list
References: <9c972b02-3c30-4fad-95bd-cf6165913d6b@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0297dd0f$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 02:47:42 -0700, Terry wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Is there a simple way (the pythonic way) to flatten a list of list?
> rather than my current solution:
> 
> new_list=[]
> for l in list_of_list:
>     new_list.extend(l)

I don't think that scales terribly well. In my testing, it performs about 
as badly as the O(N**2) behaviours others have suggested (using sum or 
reduce with add) -- perhaps a bit worse for small N, but not quite as 
badly for large N.


> new_list=reduce(lambda x,y:x.extend(y), list_of_list)

That doesn't even work.

>>> list_of_list = [ [1,2,3], [2, 4, 8] ]
>>> new_list=reduce(lambda x,y:x.extend(y), list_of_list)
>>> new_list is None
True



Chris' suggestion using itertools seems pretty good:

>>> from timeit import Timer
>>> setup = """\\
... L = [ [None]*5000 for _ in xrange(%d) ]
... from itertools import chain
... """
>>> Timer("list(chain.from_iterable(L))", setup % 4).repeat(number=1000)
[0.61839914321899414, 0.61799716949462891, 0.62065696716308594]
>>> Timer("list(chain.from_iterable(L))", setup % 8).repeat(number=1000)
[1.2618398666381836, 1.3385050296783447, 3.9113419055938721]
>>> Timer("list(chain.from_iterable(L))", setup % 16).repeat(number=1000)
[3.1349358558654785, 4.8554730415344238, 5.4319999217987061]


-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Aug 16 07:31:57 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 16 Aug 2009 11:31:57 GMT
Subject: flatten a list of list
References: <9c972b02-3c30-4fad-95bd-cf6165913d6b@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<0297d4a6$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <0297de7c$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 06:59:52 -0400, Chris Rebert wrote:

>> Surely that's going to be O(N**2)?
> 
> The OP asked for "simple", not "best", "most proper", or "fastest". My
> comment was intended to mean that the code was marginally *simpler*, not
> faster.

Fair enough, but he also asked for Pythonic, and while some people might 
argue that "terrible performance" is Pythonic, I hope you wouldn't be one 
of them! :)

If it soothes your ruffled sense of honour *wink*, I think your solution 
with itertools.chain is probably the best so far.


-- 
Steven


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Aug 16 07:39:40 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 20:39:40 +0900
Subject: What happened to __cmp__() in Python 3.x?
In-Reply-To: <2d56febf0908160245i5fd0d9f2kba74d112f0826932@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2d56febf0908150509k1b6a3b98j7e76ae6596108280@mail.gmail.com>		<50697b2c0908160107k6f31141dt5143071d0ff54c71@mail.gmail.com>	
	<2d56febf0908160245i5fd0d9f2kba74d112f0826932@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

Xavier Ho wrote:

> I'm really looking for a way to set up Python classes' natural ordering 
> for sorting purposes.

I believe __lt__ (<) is the only method (operator) used by both .sort 
and heap module.



From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Sun Aug 16 07:42:14 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 13:42:14 +0200
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in
	string literals]
In-Reply-To: <0297cd31$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	<74a3f562-6209-485e-9fbb-145ec00c331c@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<0297cd31$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <200908161342.14612.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Sunday 16 August 2009 12:18:11 Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> In any case, after half a century of left-from-right assignment, I think
> it's worth the experiment in a teaching language or three to try it the
> other way. The closest to this I know of is the family of languages
> derived from Apple's Hypertalk, where you do assignment with:
>
> put somevalue into name
>
> (Doesn't COBOL do something similar?)

Yup.

move banana to pineapple.

move accountnum in inrec to accountnum in outrec.

move corresponding inrec to outrec.

It should all be upper case of course...

I cannot quite recall, but I have the feeling that in the second  form, "of" 
was also allowed instead of "in", but it has been a while now so I am 
probably wrong.

The move was powerful - it would do conversions for you based on the types of 
the operands - it all "just worked".

- Hendrik


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sun Aug 16 07:43:00 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 07:43:00 -0400
Subject: flatten a list of list
In-Reply-To: <0297de7c$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <9c972b02-3c30-4fad-95bd-cf6165913d6b@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<0297d4a6$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<0297de7c$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908160443j1608f14dsb9ec1b7f39bd6410@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 7:31 AM, Steven
D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 06:59:52 -0400, Chris Rebert wrote:
>>> Surely that's going to be O(N**2)?
>>
>> The OP asked for "simple", not "best", "most proper", or "fastest". My
>> comment was intended to mean that the code was marginally *simpler*, not
>> faster.
>
> Fair enough, but he also asked for Pythonic, and while some people might
> argue that "terrible performance" is Pythonic, I hope you wouldn't be one
> of them! :)

Indeed not. :) I expected it would be worse performance-wise than the
OP's original due to all the intermediate lists that get produced; it
shouldn't be used in optimized production code.

> If it soothes your ruffled sense of honour *wink*, I think your solution
> with itertools.chain is probably the best so far.

Except it's not really my solution, it's whoever put it in the
itertools docs's. :(
But I'm glad to been able to help by pointing the recipe out. :-)

Cheers,
Chris
-- 
http://blog.rebertia.com


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Aug 16 07:49:16 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 12:49:16 +0100
Subject: What happened to __cmp__() in Python 3.x?
In-Reply-To: <50697b2c0908160104k7d74ace9jda8f4b927402942@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2d56febf0908150509k1b6a3b98j7e76ae6596108280@mail.gmail.com>
	<50697b2c0908160104k7d74ace9jda8f4b927402942@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

Chris Rebert wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 8:09 AM, Xavier Ho wrote:
>> Hey all,
>>
>> I've recently made my way to Python 3.1 and I'm not seeing __cmp__() in the
>> documentation.
>>
>> Is there a substitution for this special method in 3.1, or do I really have
>> to define all six rich comparison methods to work it out?
> 
> I don't think so. Quoting
> http://docs.python.org/dev/py3k/reference/datamodel.html
> 
> "There are no swapped-argument versions of [the comparison] methods
> (to be used when the left argument does not support the operation but
> the right argument does); rather, __lt__() and __gt__() are each
> other?s reflection, __le__() and __ge__() are each other?s reflection,
> and __eq__() and __ne__() are their own reflection."
> 
> I believe this means you only need to define one method from each of
> the following pairs to get all the operators working:
> * __eq__ or __ne__
> * __lt__ or __gt__
> * __ge__ or __le__
> 
> Cheers,
> Chris
Unfortunately I don't think it's that easy, see.
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2008-November/688761.html
The issue referenced is still open.  This of course assumes that I've 
posted the correct link this time!

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From contact at xavierho.com  Sun Aug 16 07:58:35 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 21:58:35 +1000
Subject: What happened to __cmp__() in Python 3.x?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <2d56febf0908150509k1b6a3b98j7e76ae6596108280@mail.gmail.com>
	<50697b2c0908160104k7d74ace9jda8f4b927402942@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908160458k3b5197d8tf1a69e3083ab3146@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 9:49 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:

>
> Unfortunately I don't think it's that easy, see.
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2008-November/688761.html
> The issue referenced is still open.  This of course assumes that I've
> posted the correct link this time!
>

I'm not sure what you're referring to here. The link brought me to about
__ne__ being automatically determined when __eq__ is defined. Although it is
a rich comparison special method, it doesn't entirely cover the usefulness
of __cmp__().

Terry: I'll give that a test tomorrow and see what I can come up with.
Thanks for the quick info.

Regards,

Ching-Yun "Xavier" Ho, Technical Artist

Contact Information
Mobile: (+61) 04 3335 4748
Skype ID: SpaXe85
Email: contact at xavierho.com
Website: http://xavierho.com/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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From luke.leighton at googlemail.com  Sun Aug 16 08:08:39 2009
From: luke.leighton at googlemail.com (lkcl)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 05:08:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: platform-specific overrides of functions and class methods (expanding
	on imputils demo code)
Message-ID: 

i've just had to put something together for pyjamas-desktop which may
prove to be useful to other people, so i'm pointing people in its
general direction, for archive purposes.

the purpose behind the platform override system is to allow
implementations of a common API, in python, to share the majority of
their codebase (modules, classes, functions etc.) _but_, for _very_
specific platform implementation purposes, allow for "overrides".

example:

test.py
def test():
   print "hello"

platform/testOverridingPlatformName.py:
def test():
   print "this is not kansas any more"

code is here:
http://pyjamas.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/pyjamas/trunk/pyjd/

modules to pay attention to: importers.py (a modified version of Demos/
imputils/importers.py) and modcompile.py.  setup/init function is very
simple - see __init__py.in last few lines.

on reading modcompile.py you may be forgiven for going "wtf????" but
basically PlatformParser loads the python source; turns it into an
AST; then also the "platform-specific" version is loaded and turned
into an AST; then, the two ASTs are handed to the "merge" function
which does a top-level "replace" of functions and a top-level
"replace" of class methods.

_theen_ the resultant "merged" AST is handed to a module which was
derived from compiler/pycodegen.py - none of the code in there can
cope with being handed an already-compiled AST so it was necessary to
make a class that did.  looking around on the internet i find quite a
few people asking about how to do this, so ... take a look at
modcompile.Module, and how it's used.  very simple.

i've disabled saving and detection of .pyc files for now, because the
job of loading code from .pyc should really be done by PlatformParser
(which understands the concept of... duh, a platform).   the _last_
thing that you want to happen is to run one platform's code, generate
some .pyc files, then change a config file to run a different back-end
platform, for example (which is possible with pyjamas-desktop) and end
up running the _wrong_ platform-specific code.

for those people wondering, "why in god's green earth would anyone
want to _do_ such a thing???" it's quite simple: the alternative is a
complete dog's dinner, in pyjamas:

def do_some_DOM_manipulation(document):
    # heeeere we go...
    if platform == 'hulahop' # this is for XULrunner
       do_some_stuff()
    elif platform == 'pywebkitgtk':
       do_something_different()
    elif platform == 'mshtml' # for pywin32 and comtypes....
       do_something_dreadful()
    else:
       do_the_default_here()

now imagine that across an API with ... four hundred functions.

i just... couldn't bring myself to do that.  not when the pyjs (python-
to-javascript) compiler _already_ solved this problem (thanks to james
tauber) by deploying the AST merge concept.

all i did was merge that with the imputils demo code so that, rather
than at compile-time the pyjs compiler goes and generates five
platform-specific versions of the same application, pyjamas-desktop at
_run_ time can do exactly the same thing.

but - it's a generic enough idea to be of value elsewhere - for
example, all the loooovely code in e.g. the setup distutils?  all
those looovely "if os.platform == 'win32'", and "if sys.this = 'posix'
" could be replaced with platform-specific overrides that got merged
at run-time, thus _dramatically_ simplifying the look and the
useability of the code.

enjoy.

l.


From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Sun Aug 16 08:24:36 2009
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (Bearophile)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 05:24:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: flatten a list of list
References: <9c972b02-3c30-4fad-95bd-cf6165913d6b@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<0297d4a6$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> 
	
Message-ID: <218b0a2e-ed83-4675-9942-6297048a4676@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

Chris Rebert:
> The OP asked for "simple", not "best", "most proper", or "fastest". My
> comment was intended to mean that the code was marginally *simpler*,
> not faster.

Yep, the OP has asked for simple code. But often this is not the right
way to solve this situation. A better way is to create (or copy) a
flatten that's efficient and well tested & debugged, put it into some
library of utilities, and then use import&use it when it's needed.

Bye,
bearophile


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Aug 16 08:33:29 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 13:33:29 +0100
Subject: What happened to __cmp__() in Python 3.x?
In-Reply-To: <2d56febf0908160458k3b5197d8tf1a69e3083ab3146@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2d56febf0908150509k1b6a3b98j7e76ae6596108280@mail.gmail.com>	<50697b2c0908160104k7d74ace9jda8f4b927402942@mail.gmail.com>	
	<2d56febf0908160458k3b5197d8tf1a69e3083ab3146@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

Xavier Ho wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 9:49 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
> 
>> Unfortunately I don't think it's that easy, see.
>> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2008-November/688761.html
>> The issue referenced is still open.  This of course assumes that I've
>> posted the correct link this time!
>>
> 
> I'm not sure what you're referring to here. The link brought me to about
> __ne__ being automatically determined when __eq__ is defined. Although it is
> a rich comparison special method, it doesn't entirely cover the usefulness
> of __cmp__().
> 
> Terry: I'll give that a test tomorrow and see what I can come up with.
> Thanks for the quick info.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Ching-Yun "Xavier" Ho, Technical Artist
> 
> Contact Information
> Mobile: (+61) 04 3335 4748
> Skype ID: SpaXe85
> Email: contact at xavierho.com
> Website: http://xavierho.com/
> 
> 
I wasn't discussing __cmp__, I was referring to the quote by Chris 
Rebert from the Python docs regarding the rich comparison methods, a 
discrepancy between the documentation and the implementation as noted in 
the link that I gave, and an indication that the issue raised on this 
discrepancy is still open.  As Terry Reedy has mentioned __lt__ 
elsewhere, you should be aware of the discrepancy, otherwise you could 
go charging off down the wrong track.  FWIW it was Terry who raised the 
issue 4395, I'm sure that he could explain the ramifications of it all 
far better than I ever could, so I'll sign out.

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sun Aug 16 08:45:22 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 13:45:22 +0100
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in
	string literals]
In-Reply-To: <34dd6e0e-3b47-4761-ad7a-9038b0d36209@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>		<02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
			
		<5fcd454d-14b4-452b-91d3-938e9fa0bd18@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>	<02975ce6$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>		<029783cd$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<34dd6e0e-3b47-4761-ad7a-9038b0d36209@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A87FF62.2020508@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Douglas Alan wrote:
[snip]
> C++ also allows for reading from stdin like so:
> 
>    cin >> myVar;
> 
> I think the direction of the arrows probably derives from languages
> like APL, which had notation something like so:
> 
>      myVar <- 3
>      [] <- myVar
> 
> "<-" was really a little arrow symbol (APL didn't use ascii), and the
> first line above would assign the value 3 to myVar. In the second
> line, the "[]" was really a little box symbol and represented the
> terminal.  Assigning to the box would cause the output to be printed
> on the terminal, so the above would output "3".  If you did this:
> 
>      [] -> myVar
> 
> It would read a value into myVar from the terminal.
> 
> APL predates Unix by quite a few years.
> 
No, APL is strictly right-to-left.

     -> x

means "goto x".

Writing to the console is:

     [] <- myVar

Reading from the console is:

     myVar <- []


From magawake at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 09:25:42 2009
From: magawake at gmail.com (Mag Gam)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 09:25:42 -0400
Subject: unittest
In-Reply-To: 
References: <1cbd6f830908142028v638a4c06jf0f859be712e724c@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <1cbd6f830908160625m5a8ffa9er7e34c203f30fca49@mail.gmail.com>

John:

Well, this is actually a script which wraps around another application. :-)
My goal is when I introduce a new feature I don't want to break old
stuff so instead of me testing manually I want to build a framework of
tests.



On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 11:37 PM, John Haggerty wrote:
> This is an interesting question. I am just wondering: do you really have
> that many features that it would be impossible to just have a shell script
> run specific types of input or tests?
>
> When I did programming in the past for education they just had lists of
> input data and we ran the program against the test data.
>
> I just get slightly confused when "test suites" start to have to apply?
>
> On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 9:28 PM, Mag Gam  wrote:
>>
>> I am writing an application which has many command line arguments.
>> For example: foo.py -args "bar bee"
>>
>> I would like to create a test suit using unittest so when I add
>> features to "foo.py" I don't want to break other things. I just heard
>> about unittest and would love to use it for this type of thing.
>>
>> so my question is, when I do these tests do I have to code them into
>> foo.py? I prefer having a footest.py which will run the regression
>> tests. Any thoughts about this?
>>
>> TIA
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>


From kevin.p.dwyer at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 09:31:19 2009
From: kevin.p.dwyer at gmail.com (Kev Dwyer)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 13:31:19 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: my recursive function call is wrong?
References: <22a413260908160057t2802d3cci70658278e7322eb8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 16:57:41 +0900, Chang Min Jeon wrote:


Hello,

You have placed recursive calls to the function in a number of different 
locations; when len(macro) becomes zero control will return to the 
calling function, but this calling function may have more code to 
execute, including further calls to start_parse(), and further attempts 
to index macro.

I like to keep recursive calls at the end of a function, so that there is 
a clean path back to the top level caller once the terminal condition is 
reached.  You can do it differently, but you need to bear in mind the 
execution paths through your code.

Cheers,

Kev



From emmanuel.surleau at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 09:34:06 2009
From: emmanuel.surleau at gmail.com (Emmanuel Surleau)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 15:34:06 +0200
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
In-Reply-To: <0297b471$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <24980842.post@talk.nabble.com>
	
	<0297b471$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <200908161534.06831.emmanuel.surleau@gmail.com>

> It's a particular unfair criticism because the critic (Ethan Furman)
> appears to have made a knee-jerk reaction. The "some language in Python"
> behaviour he's reacting to is the common idiom:
>
> for i in range(len(seq)):
>     do_something_with(seq[i])
>
>
> instead of the "Python in Python" idiom:
>
> for obj in seq:
>     do_something_with(obj)
>
>
> That's a reasonable criticism, but *not in the case*. Ethan appears to
> have made the knee-jerk reaction "for i in range() is Bad" without
> stopping to think about what this specific piece of code is actually
> doing.
>
> (Replace 'obj' with 'j', 'seq' with 'range(2, n)', and
> 'do_something_with' with 'if (n % j) == 0: return False', and you have
> the exact same code pattern.)

Fair enough. But as far as I know, for i in (x)range(num) is the canonical way 
to iterate over numbers in Python.

Another case of lack of RTFM* before answering, I suppose.

Cheers,

Emm

*Read The Fine Mail


From grante at visi.com  Sun Aug 16 09:55:31 2009
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 08:55:31 -0500
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a Serial
	port?
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-15, Hendrik van Rooyen  wrote:
> On Saturday 15 August 2009 16:25:03 Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>> Are you using python file operations open/read/write or OS
>> file-descriptor operations os.open/os.read/os.write?
>
> The former - that seems to be the source of my trouble.
>
> I have now written a little test that uses serial.Serial and
> it works a treat.

Good to hear.

> I am still confused about pyserial and serial - I found serial
> in my distribution library, (on the SuSe machine, not on the
> 2.5 in Slackware) but I had to download pyserial.

That's very interesting.  Is the pre-existing "serial" a
version of pyserial that the packager had pre-installed or is
it something else?  I didn't know any distributions shipped
Python with pyserial installed.  In either case, "serial" isn't
something that ships with the standard Python library.

> I see that you were the the original author.  Thank you for
> letting this stuff loose in the wild.

My pleasure.

-- 


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Sun Aug 16 09:59:18 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 15:59:18 +0200
Subject: callable virtual method
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4A85798B.6020501@sequans.com>	<4A8587A0.6040008@mrabarnett.plus.com>		<02959b54$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	
	
Message-ID: <4A8810B6.8080204@sequans.com>

Scott David Daniels wrote:
> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>> On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:49:26 +0200, Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>>>
>>>  
>>>> Sorry guys (means guys *and* gals :op ), I realized I've not been able
>>>> to describe precisely what I want to do. I'd like the base class to be
>>>> virtual (aka abstract). However it may be abstract but it does not 
>>>> mean
>>>> it cannot do some usefull stuff.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Here is the schema of my abstract methods :
>>>>
>>>> class Interface(object):
>>>>     def method(self):
>>>>         # ---------------------
>>>>         # some common stuff executed here
>>>>         # ---------------------
>>>>         print 'hello world'
>>>>         # ---------------------
>>>>         # here shall stand child specific stuff (empty in the 
>>>> interface
>>>> method)
>>>>         # ---------------------
>>>>         if self.__class__.method == Interface.method:
>>>>             raise NotImplementedError('You should have read the 
>>>> f******
>>>> manual ! You must override this method.')
>>>>     
>>>
>>>
>>> Okay, so I want to sub-class your Interface class. As you said, the 
>>> methods in the abstract class are still useful, so in my class, I 
>>> don't need any extra functionality for some methods -- I'm happy 
>>> with just the "common stuff". So I use normal OO techniques and 
>>> over-ride just the methods I need to over-ride:
>>>
>>>   
>> Sometimes the base is doing cool stuff but incomplete stuff which 
>> requires knowledge only hold by the sub class. In my case the 
>> interface is a high level interface for a software that can run on 
>> multiple hardware platforms. Only the sub class has knowledge on how 
>> to operate the hardware, but no matter the hardware it still produces 
>> the same effect.
>>
>> Let's say I have 50 different hardwares, I'll have 50 sub classes of 
>> Interface with the 'start' method to define. It wouldn't be 
>> appropriate (OO programming)to write 50 times '_log.debug('Starting 
>> %s' % self)' in each child start method when the simple task of 
>> logging the call can be nicely handled by the base class.
>>
>> In the meantime, I must make sure  the user, who is not a python guru 
>> in this case, has implemented the start method for his hardware, 
>> because only him knows how to effectively start this hardware. I 
>> don't want him to come to me saying, "I got no error, still my 
>> hardware does not start". You can then blame him for not reading the 
>> docs, but it will still be less expensive to throw a nice exception 
>> with an accurate feedback.
>>
>> [snip]
>>> class VerboseGoodChild(Interface):
>>>     # forced to over-ride methods for no good reason
>>>   
>>
>> Definitely no !! This is the purpose of an interface class: to force 
>> people to write these methods. They *are* required, if they were not, 
>> they would not belong to the Interface.
>>
>> JM
>
> But there _is_ one moment when you can check those things, then avoid
> checking thereafter: object creation.  So you can complicate your
> __init__ (or __new__) with those checks that make sure you instantiate
> only fully defined subclasses:
>
> # obviously not tested except in concept:
>
>     class Base(object_or_whatever):
>          def __init__(self, ...):
>              class_ = self.__class__
>              if class_ is Base:
>                  raise TypeError('Attempt to instantiate Base class')
>              for name in 'one two three four':
>                  if getattr(Base, name) is not getattr(Base, name):
>                      raise NotImplementedError(
>                                  '%s implementation missing' % name)
>              ...
>
> --Scott David Daniels
> Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org
That could do the trick, sparing me from writing additional code in each 
methods. Thanks.

JM


From lists at cheimes.de  Sun Aug 16 10:07:13 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 16:07:13 +0200
Subject: callable virtual method
In-Reply-To: <4A8810B6.8080204@sequans.com>
References: <4A85798B.6020501@sequans.com>	<4A8587A0.6040008@mrabarnett.plus.com>		<02959b54$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>		
	<4A8810B6.8080204@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <4A881291.6030805@cheimes.de>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>> Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org
> That could do the trick, sparing me from writing additional code in each 
> methods. Thanks.

Why are you trying to reinvent the wheel? Python's abc module already 
takes care of these details.

Christian


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Sun Aug 16 10:13:46 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 16:13:46 +0200
Subject: callable virtual method
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4A85798B.6020501@sequans.com>	<4A8587A0.6040008@mrabarnett.plus.com>		<7eljaoF2fnkqgU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>	<4A85A233.9030905@sequans.com>	<4A85A47E.308@wiggly.org>	<4A85ACEF.4090901@sequans.com>	<4A85B9F7.4010201@ieee.org>	<4A85D051.2080004@sequans.com>
	
Message-ID: <4A88141A.1030201@sequans.com>

Christian Heimes wrote:
> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>> talking about approaches:
>>
>> 1/
>> class Interface:
>>     def foo(self):
>>        if self.__class__.foo == Interface.foo:
>>           raise NotImplementedError
>>
>> 2/
>> class Interface:
>>     def foo(self):
>>        self._foo()
>>
>>     def _foo(sef):
>>        raise NotImplementedError
>
> Please don't call it an interface when it's really an abstract base 
> class. And abstract base classes are probably the solution the OP is 
> looking for, http://docs.python.org/library/abc.html
>
> Christian
>
Sadly I'm working with python 2.4. Anyway it's good to hear they've 
added ABC support to python, didn't know that. I didn't know there was a 
difference between interface and abstract classes as well. With a little 
bit of googling, I found out that actually Interface classes do not 
provide any implementation.
What I'm looking for is definitely an abstract class.

JM


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Sun Aug 16 10:17:39 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (jean-michel Pichavant)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 16:17:39 +0200
Subject: callable virtual method
In-Reply-To: <4A881291.6030805@cheimes.de>
References: <4A85798B.6020501@sequans.com>	<4A8587A0.6040008@mrabarnett.plus.com>		<02959b54$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>		
	<4A8810B6.8080204@sequans.com> <4A881291.6030805@cheimes.de>
Message-ID: <4A881503.7010202@sequans.com>

Christian Heimes a ?crit :
> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>>> Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org
>> That could do the trick, sparing me from writing additional code in 
>> each methods. Thanks.
>
> Why are you trying to reinvent the wheel? Python's abc module already 
> takes care of these details.
>
> Christian
I'm working with python 2.4 and don't plan to change. The abc module 
would have been exactly what I was looking for. I'll keep it mind if I 
ever upgrade to python 2.6+

JM


From victorsubervi at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 11:30:34 2009
From: victorsubervi at gmail.com (Victor Subervi)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 10:30:34 -0500
Subject: Surpressing Warnings
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4dc0cfea0908091321y54156d30sc0c4dc3a564eecab@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <4dc0cfea0908160830n33c4e511t7aa1662884596885@mail.gmail.com>

This is strange because I actually had "if exists" in my code:

sqlKWDrop = 'DROP TABLE IF EXISTS ' + kwTable + ';'

where kwTable, in the instance cited below, becomes "judaism_128". What
gives?
Victor

On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 7:57 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

> On Sun, 9 Aug 2009 15:21:43 -0500, Victor Subervi
>  declaimed the following in
> gmane.comp.python.general:
>
> > Hi:
> > I get a ton of warnings like this from a program I run:
> >
> > Warning (from warnings module):
> >   File "C:\Python25\read.py", line 67
> >     cursor.execute(sqlKWDrop)
> > Warning: Unknown table 'judaism_128'
> >
>         Personally -- I'd suggest fixing the database so that the table
> does
> exist...
>
>        Ah, but then -- it appears from the name, that the purpose of this
> SQL statement is to delete the table... In which case use a database
> that supports (for example, current versions of MySQL, SQLite, and
> PostgreSQL) "drop table IF EXISTS tbl_name" which suppress the
> warning/error message and update the SQL as appropriate.
>
>        Appears that M$ SQL Server does NOT implement that syntax... Nor
> could I find it for Firebird.
>
>        If the application is specific for one database engine, it might be
> worth it to find out what features permit discovering if a table exists
> and bypassing the drop if it doesn't...
>
>
> --
>        Wulfraed         Dennis Lee Bieber               KD6MOG
>        wlfraed at ix.netcom.com   HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Sun Aug 16 11:41:21 2009
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 11:41:21 -0400
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
In-Reply-To: <200908160830.55031.emmanuel.surleau@gmail.com>
References: <24980842.post@talk.nabble.com> <4A8612CE.7080700@stoneleaf.us>
	<200908160830.55031.emmanuel.surleau@gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 2:30 AM, Emmanuel Surleau
 wrote:
>
> I don't see what's particularly un-Pythonic with this code. Not using xrange()
> is a mistake, certainly, but it remains clear, easily understandable code
> which correctly demonstrates the naive algorithm for detecting whether n is a
> prime. It doesn't call for condescension

It's not that the code is bad, but too many people coming from Java
and C keep thinking of for loops like they're using Java or C and
therefore that "for i in range(a,b)" is identical to "for(int i = a; i
< b; i++)". It's not and, for the most part, you shouldn't code like
that. Since you're using numbers, range/xrange is the appropriate
idiom but you still have to remember that a for loop in python doesn't
loop until a condition is met, it loops through an iterator until the
interator says it's done.


From psilord at merlin.cs.wisc.edu  Sun Aug 16 12:05:01 2009
From: psilord at merlin.cs.wisc.edu (Peter Keller)
Date: 16 Aug 2009 16:05:01 GMT
Subject: Xah's Edu Corner: The importance of syntax & notations.
References: 
Message-ID: <4a882e2d$0$9897$80265adb@spool.cs.wisc.edu>

In comp.lang.scheme Xah Lee  wrote:
> Xah's Edu Corner: The importance of syntax & notations.
> 
> http://www.stephenwolfram.com/publications/recent/mathml/mathml_abstract.html
> 
> this article should teach the coding sophomorons and computer
> ?science? idiotic authors who harbor the notion that syntax is not
> important, picked up by all the elite i-reddit & twittering &  hacker
> news am-hip dunces.

I must have really tweaked you with my "Syntax is not important, ideas are."
statement.

I read Wolfram's article carefully. He applies an intuitive sense onto
why he does or doesn't like a particular notation, but yet can't really
elucidate his feelings. I'm surprised that didn't tweak you worse. He
also goes so far as to mention that:

"But actually we still don't know a clean simple way to represent things
like geometrical diagrams in a kind of language-like notation. And
my guess is that actually of all the math-like stuff out there, only
a comparatively small fraction can actually be represented well with
language-like notation."

It is simply that the method by which the right brain categorizes
and processes visual information is not observable by the left
brain. Therefore no language can EVER be constructed by the left brain to
represent why the right brain "prefers" some visual layouts for languages
over others.  I've done enough classical art training in my life to
understand the conflict between the powerful spatial/visual processor
the right brain has and the (in the context of drawing) meaningless
linguistics of trying to describe the process.

Only when we as human beings build the observation channels needed (with
physical connection between certain areas of the left and right sides of
the brain) will any sort of meaningful left brain language be created
for the visual understanding/gradation of the spatial relationship and
the method by which our right brain performs its processing.

If you want to design a better computer language, hire an artist.

Most semantic objects in programs stand in some spatio-temporal
relation to each other. If you deny that fact, then simply look at the
directed acyclic form/SSA form/CPS transform of any of your favorite
languages. Compiler go through *great* pains to transform left brain
scribblings into large spatio-temporal "2d images" where lots of algorithms
are done before converting them into assembly. This is because it is simply
easier to visually understand how to do the processing of those elements
than not.

Thank you.

-pete


From jcm1981 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 12:17:42 2009
From: jcm1981 at gmail.com (Chang Min Jeon)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 01:17:42 +0900
Subject: my recursive function call is wrong?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <22a413260908160057t2802d3cci70658278e7322eb8@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <22a413260908160917j46b93717hd57889ce26feae6d@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Kev

Thank you very much.
I got it.:)

2009/8/16 Kev Dwyer 

> On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 16:57:41 +0900, Chang Min Jeon wrote:
>
>
> Hello,
>
> You have placed recursive calls to the function in a number of different
> locations; when len(macro) becomes zero control will return to the
> calling function, but this calling function may have more code to
> execute, including further calls to start_parse(), and further attempts
> to index macro.
>
> I like to keep recursive calls at the end of a function, so that there is
> a clean path back to the top level caller once the terminal condition is
> reached.  You can do it differently, but you need to bear in mind the
> execution paths through your code.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Kev
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
CashFlow
To be rich.
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From paul at subsignal.org  Sun Aug 16 12:30:48 2009
From: paul at subsignal.org (paul)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 18:30:48 +0200
Subject: Python or ActionScript 3.0
In-Reply-To: <0e14ae96-e9f5-41ff-8c2d-72c4ef624345@18g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: <0e14ae96-e9f5-41ff-8c2d-72c4ef624345@18g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Jaseem schrieb:
> Hi,
> 
> Is python similar to actionscript 3.0
Not really.

> Which is better to create a rich gui internet application?
> Is it AS 3.0 with flex or python with its GUI libs?
Flex+AS3 definitely! (it's been designed for that, no surprise here)

> 
> Is python in demand?
Depends. It seems quite popular in the scientific community and for 
system administration these days.

> Heard that python is similar to lisp. But both python and AS 3.0 is
> almost identical. Which is more similar to lisp are powerful?
If python is 100m away from lisp, than it's 102.32m for AS3.

cheers
  Paul
> 
> Thank You.



From python at rcn.com  Sun Aug 16 12:33:59 2009
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 09:33:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: What happened to __cmp__() in Python 3.x?
References: <2d56febf0908150509k1b6a3b98j7e76ae6596108280@mail.gmail.com> 
	
Message-ID: <561aa2a7-2cf8-4c30-b9a7-e22ad64655b5@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

[Xavier Ho]
> > I've recently made my way to Python 3.1 and I'm not seeing __cmp__() in the
> > documentation.
>
> > Is there a substitution for this special method in 3.1, or do I really have
> > to define all six rich comparison methods to work it out?

FWIW, there is a recipe for expanding the comparison operators:

        http://code.activestate.com/recipes/576685/


Raymond


From jasevv at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 12:39:49 2009
From: jasevv at gmail.com (Jaseem)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 09:39:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python or ActionScript 3.0
References: <0e14ae96-e9f5-41ff-8c2d-72c4ef624345@18g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4a889173-f1bf-4661-ae1d-4b0c23c4d586@r18g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 16, 9:30?pm, paul  wrote:
> Jaseem schrieb:> Hi,
>
> > Is python similar to actionscript 3.0
>
> Not really.
>
> > Which is better to create a rich gui internet application?
> > Is it AS 3.0 with flex or python with its GUI libs?
>
> Flex+AS3 definitely! (it's been designed for that, no surprise here)
>
>
>
> > Is python in demand?
>
> Depends. It seems quite popular in the scientific community and for
> system administration these days.
>
> > Heard that python is similar to lisp. But both python and AS 3.0 is
> > almost identical. Which is more similar to lisp are powerful?
>
> If python is 100m away from lisp, than it's 102.32m for AS3.
>
> cheers
> ? Paul
>
>
>
> > Thank You.
>
>
Alright!


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Sun Aug 16 12:40:57 2009
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 09:40:57 -0700
Subject: flatten a list of list
In-Reply-To: <0297dd0f$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <9c972b02-3c30-4fad-95bd-cf6165913d6b@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0297dd0f$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 02:47:42 -0700, Terry wrote:
>> Is there a simple way (the pythonic way) to flatten a list of list?
> Chris' suggestion using itertools seems pretty good:
> 
>>>> from timeit import Timer
>>>> setup = """\\
> ... L = [ [None]*5000 for _ in xrange(%d) ]
> ... from itertools import chain
> ... """
>>>> Timer("list(chain.from_iterable(L))", setup % 4).repeat(number=1000)
> [0.61839914321899414, 0.61799716949462891, 0.62065696716308594]
>>>> Timer("list(chain.from_iterable(L))", setup % 8).repeat(number=1000)
> [1.2618398666381836, 1.3385050296783447, 3.9113419055938721]
>>>> Timer("list(chain.from_iterable(L))", setup % 16).repeat(number=1000)
> [3.1349358558654785, 4.8554730415344238, 5.4319999217987061]

OK, it definitely helps to get a size estimate before building:

 >>> setup = """\\
L = [ [None]*5000 for _ in xrange(%d) ]
import itertools

class Holder(object):
     def __init__(self, list_of_lists):
         self._list = list_of_lists
     def __iter__(self):
         return itertools.chain.from_iterable(self._list)
     def __len__(self):
         return sum(len(x) for x in self._list)
"""

 >>> timeit.Timer("list(Holder(L))", setup % 4).repeat(number=1000)
[0.59912279353940789, 0.59505886921382967, 0.59474989139681611]
 >>> timeit.Timer("list(Holder(L))", setup % 8).repeat(number=1000)
[1.1898235669617208, 1.194797383466323, 1.1945367358141823]
 >>> timeit.Timer("list(Holder(L))", setup % 16).repeat(number=1000)
[2.4244464031043123, 2.4261885239604482, 2.4050011942858589]

vs straight chain.from_iterable (on my machine):

[0.7828263089303249, 0.79326171343005925, 0.80967664884783019]
[1.499510971366476, 1.5263249938190455, 1.5599706107899181]
[3.4427520816193109, 3.632409426337702, 3.5290488036887382]

--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From no.email at please.post  Sun Aug 16 13:09:32 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 17:09:32 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Splitting on '^' ?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

In  rurpy at yahoo.com writes:

>On Aug 14, 2:23=A0pm, kj  wrote:
>> Sometimes I want to split a string into lines, preserving the
>> end-of-line markers. =A0In Perl this is really easy to do, by splitting
>> on the beginning-of-line anchor:
>>
>> =A0 @lines =3D split /^/, $string;
>>
>> But I can't figure out how to do the same thing with Python. =A0E.g.:

>Why not this?

>>>> lines =3D 'spam\nham\neggs\n'.splitlines (True)
>>>> lines
>['spam\n', 'ham\n', 'eggs\n']

That's perfect.

And .splitlines seems to be able to handle all "standard" end-of-line
markers without any special direction (which, ironically, strikes
me as a *little* Perlish, somehow):

>>> "spam\015\012ham\015eggs\012".splitlines(True)
['spam\r\n', 'ham\r', 'eggs\n']

Amazing.  I'm not sure this is the *best* way to do this in general
(I would have preferred it, and IMHO it would have been more
Pythonic, if .splitlines accepted an additional optional argument
where one could specify the end-of-line sequence to be used for
the splitting, defaulting to the OS's conventional sequence, and
then it split *strictly* on that sequence).

But for now this .splitlines will do nicely.

Thanks!

kynn


From bettini at dsi.unifi.it  Sun Aug 16 13:12:11 2009
From: bettini at dsi.unifi.it (Lorenzo Bettini)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 19:12:11 +0200
Subject: Komodo(!)
In-Reply-To: 
References: <-7ydndQXQODmNxjXRVn_vwA@giganews.com>		<553649.43098.qm@web110605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	
Message-ID: <4a883df4@news.x-privat.org>

Kee Nethery wrote:
> I've heard there is a nice add-on to Eclipse but Eclipse has even more 
> setup variables than Wings and I've avoided it for that reason.
> 

Hi

I've just started using python and since I've been an eclipse user for 
many years I tried http://pydev.sourceforge.net/ and I really enjoyed 
that! :-)

cheers
	Lorenzo

-- 
Lorenzo Bettini, PhD in Computer Science, DI, Univ. Torino
ICQ# lbetto, 16080134     (GNU/Linux User # 158233)
HOME: http://www.lorenzobettini.it MUSIC: http://www.purplesucker.com
http://www.myspace.com/supertrouperabba
BLOGS: http://tronprog.blogspot.com  http://longlivemusic.blogspot.com
http://www.gnu.org/software/src-highlite
http://www.gnu.org/software/gengetopt
http://www.gnu.org/software/gengen http://doublecpp.sourceforge.net


From bieffe62 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 13:12:29 2009
From: bieffe62 at gmail.com (Francesco Bochicchio)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 10:12:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: flatten a list of list
References: <9c972b02-3c30-4fad-95bd-cf6165913d6b@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0297dd0f$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <65abe4e8-dd82-47f9-b851-028babbcc247@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 16, 1:25?pm, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:

...

> Chris' suggestion using itertools seems pretty good:
>
> >>> from timeit import Timer
> >>> setup = """\\
>
> ... L = [ [None]*5000 for _ in xrange(%d) ]
> ... from itertools import chain
> ... """>>> Timer("list(chain.from_iterable(L))", setup % 4).repeat(number=1000)
>
> [0.61839914321899414, 0.61799716949462891, 0.62065696716308594]>>> Timer("list(chain.from_iterable(L))", setup % 8).repeat(number=1000)
>
> [1.2618398666381836, 1.3385050296783447, 3.9113419055938721]>>> Timer("list(chain.from_iterable(L))", setup % 16).repeat(number=1000)
>
> [3.1349358558654785, 4.8554730415344238, 5.4319999217987061]
>
> --
> Steven

I had a peek at itertools ( which is a C module btw) and realized that
chain solves the problem by creating a chain object,
which is a sort of generator. Both creating the chain object and
converting the chain object to a list seem to be O(N), so
the whole is O(N) too ...

Then I tried this pure python version:

# ----- CODE
from timeit import Timer
setup = """\\
L = [ [None]*5000 for _ in range(%d) ]
def pychain( list_of_list ):
    for l in list_of_list:
        for elem in l:
            yield elem
"""

print( Timer("list(pychain(L))", setup % 4).repeat(number=1000))
print( Timer("list(pychain(L))", setup % 8).repeat(number=1000))
print( Timer("list(pychain(L))", setup % 16).repeat(number=1000))
# ----- END CODE


and got times that seem to confirm it :

[2.818755865097046, 2.7880589962005615, 2.79232120513916]
[5.588631868362427, 5.588244915008545, 5.587780952453613]
[11.620548009872437, 11.39465618133545, 11.40834903717041]

For reference, here are the times of the itertools.chain solution on
my laptop:

[0.6518809795379639, 0.6491332054138184, 0.6483590602874756]
[1.3188841342926025, 1.3173959255218506, 1.3207998275756836]
[2.7200729846954346, 2.5402050018310547, 2.543621063232422]

All this with Python 3.1 compiled from source on Xubuntu 8.10.

Ciao
-----
FB


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Aug 16 13:22:52 2009
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 19:22:52 +0200
Subject: Python 2.6 still not giving memory back to the OS...
In-Reply-To: <762603ba-0a4c-4504-94d9-34a8b1e3f9c3@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<38581c40-b7ed-4dbf-a3af-33e1761ba7b0@r7g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<762603ba-0a4c-4504-94d9-34a8b1e3f9c3@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A88406C.3060609@v.loewis.de>

> As far as releasing memory back to the OS is concerned, I have dim
> memories of *x systems where free() would return space to the OS if
> the block was "large" and it was next to the "break" point ... this
> effect could be what you are seeing.

Today, there are two cases when malloc returns memory on a typical
Unix system (in particular, in Linux malloc):
a) if the malloc block block is small (below page size), it is allocated
   from the brk heap, where it can only be returned if the last page of
   that heap is completely free, and
b) if the block is large (multiple pages), it gets returned to the
   system right away.

Case b) can only happen if the C malloc uses mmap to allocate large
blocks. For Python, case b) is realistic, in the sense that most
allocations go to Python's obmalloc, and those allocate from C malloc
in chunks of 256kiB (IIRC). So when such an arena is completely free
(not a single Python object allocated on it anymore), it can get
returned to the system.

In some case, Python also allocates smaller blocks from C malloc; in
this case, a) will trigger. So as long as something at the end of the
heap stays allocated, C malloc will not return anything from the brk
heap to the system.

Regards,
Martin


From alan.isaac at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 13:37:04 2009
From: alan.isaac at gmail.com (Alan G Isaac)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 17:37:04 GMT
Subject: flatten a list of list
In-Reply-To: <9c972b02-3c30-4fad-95bd-cf6165913d6b@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <9c972b02-3c30-4fad-95bd-cf6165913d6b@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A8843BF.1060203@gmail.com>

On 8/16/2009 5:47 AM Terry apparently wrote:
> Is there a simple way (the pythonic way) to flatten a list of list? 
> rather than my current solution:

> new_list=[] 
> for l in list_of_list:
>     new_list.extend(l)


new_list = list(xi for lst in list_of_list for xi in lst)

hth,
Alan Isaac


From http  Sun Aug 16 13:40:41 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 16 Aug 2009 10:40:41 -0700
Subject: flatten a list of list
References: <9c972b02-3c30-4fad-95bd-cf6165913d6b@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xocqfzmg6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Terry  writes:
> Is there a simple way (the pythonic way) to flatten a list of list?
> rather than my current solution:
> 
> new_list=[]
> for l in list_of_list:
>     new_list.extend(l)

from itertools import chain
new_list = list(chain(list_of_list))


From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 13:46:37 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 10:46:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in 
	string literals]
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> 
	
	
	 
	
	<5fcd454d-14b4-452b-91d3-938e9fa0bd18@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<02975ce6$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<029783cd$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<34dd6e0e-3b47-4761-ad7a-9038b0d36209@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 16, 8:45?am, MRAB  wrote:

> No, APL is strictly right-to-left.
>
> ? ? ?-> x
>
> means "goto x".
>
> Writing to the console is:
>
> ? ? ?[] <- myVar
>
> Reading from the console is:
>
> ? ? ?myVar <- []

Ah, thanks for the correction. It's been 5,000 years since I used APL!

|>ouglas


From w_a_x_man at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 16 14:03:18 2009
From: w_a_x_man at yahoo.com (w_a_x_man)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 11:03:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Xah's Edu Corner: The importance of syntax & notations.
References: 
	<4a882e2d$0$9897$80265adb@spool.cs.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <5031edcc-c63e-4a3b-9f12-caba0cc34e92@r18g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 16, 11:05?am, Petey Keller  wrote:
>  Compiler go through *great* pains

Compiler work real hard.
Compiler have heap big trouble.


From sajmikins at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 14:33:30 2009
From: sajmikins at gmail.com (Simon Forman)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 14:33:30 -0400
Subject: problem with interface of operator.itemgetter
In-Reply-To: <19b355330908132016y49f2679u631c3123fcfc920a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <19b355330908132016y49f2679u631c3123fcfc920a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50f98a4c0908161133hd7587chf7368ab0014dabb2@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 11:16 PM, dou dou wrote:
> I have a function to do some thing like LEFT JOIN in SQL, the function use
> the itemgetter to get the "ON" and "SELECT" parameters of the two table(list
> of list), the problem is that itemgetter may return a value or a tuple of
> values, because of the inconsistent return type of itemgetter, I have to do
> 2^3 IF check,
> the function like this:
>
> def left_join(table1, on_index1, table2, on_index2, getter1, getter2):
> ??? """do thing like:
> ??? SELECT on1(table1), g1(table1), g2(table2) FROM table1
> ??? LEFT JOIN table2
> ??? ON on1(table1) == on2(table2)
> ??? """
> ??? on1 = itemgetter(*on_index1)
> ??? on2 = itemgetter(*on_index2)
> ??? g1 = itemgetter(*getter1)
> ??? g2 = itemgetter(*getter2)
>
> ??? d2 = {}
> ??? d2 = dict((on2(r2), r2) for r2 in table2)
>
> ??? #if itemgetter always return tuple, below could simple as one line
> ??? #return [ list(on1(r1) + g1(r1) + g2(d2.get(on1(r1)))) for r1 in table1
> ]
>
> ??? len_on = len(on_index1)
> ??? len_g1 = len(getter1)
> ??? len_g2 = len(getter2)
>
> ??? if len_on == 1:
> ??????? if len_g1 == 1 and len_g2 == 1:
> ??????????? return [ [on1(r1), g1(r1), g2(d2.get(on1(r1)))] for r1 in table1
> ]
> ??????? elif len_g1 == 1 and len_g2 > 1:
> ??????????? return [ list((on1(r1),g1(r1))+g2(d2.get(on1(r1)))) for r1 in
> table1 ]
> ??????? elif len_g1 > 1 and len_g2 == 1:
> ??????????? return [ list((on1(r1),)+g1(r1)+(g2(d2.get(on1(r1))),))? for r1
> in table1 ]
> ??????? else: #len_g1 > 1 and len_g2 > 1:
> ??????????? return [ list((on1(r1),)+g1(r1)+g2(d2.get(on1(r1)))) for r1 in
> table1 ]
> ??? else: # len_on > 1
> ??????? if len_g1 == 1 and len_g2 == 1:
> ??????????? return [ list(on1(r1))+[g1(r1),g2(d2.get(on1(r1)))] for r1 in
> table1 ]
> ??????? elif len_g1 == 1 and len_g2 > 1:
> ??????????? return [ list(on1(r1)+(g1(r1),)+g2(d2.get(on1(r1)))) for r1 in
> table1 ]
> ??????? elif len_g1 > 1 and len_g2 == 1:
> ??????????? return [ list(on1(r1)+g1(r1)+(g2(d2.get(on1(r1))),))? for r1 in
> table1 ]
> ??????? else: #len_g1 > 1 and len_g2 > 1:
> ??????????? return [ list(on1(r1)+g1(r1)+g2(d2.get(on1(r1)))) for r1 in
> table1 ]
>
> so is there a way to force itemgetter to return tuple even when
> itemgetter(only_have_one_argument)? or some other function to do this?
>
> Thanks.
>


You can use a little helper function to create your itemgetter like this:

def makeItemGetter(indexes):
   I = itemgetter(*indexes)
   if len(indexes) > 1:
       return I
   return lambda thing: (I(thing),)

If indexes contains only one index the itemgetter is wrapped in a
lambda that turns its output into a tuple.

HTH,
~Simon


From gallium.arsenide at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 14:35:52 2009
From: gallium.arsenide at gmail.com (John Yeung)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 11:35:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Splitting on '^' ?
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <96ac83a3-adaf-4d22-ad9c-048a99b46927@o13g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 16, 1:09?pm, kj  wrote:
> And .splitlines seems to be able to handle all
> "standard" end-of-line markers without any special
> direction (which, ironically, strikes
> me as a *little* Perlish, somehow):

It's Pythonic.  Universal newline-handling for text has been a staple
of Python for as long as I can remember (very possibly since the very
beginning).

> >>> "spam\015\012ham\015eggs\012".splitlines(True)
>
> ['spam\r\n', 'ham\r', 'eggs\n']
>
> Amazing. ?I'm not sure this is the *best* way to do
> this in general (I would have preferred it, and IMHO
> it would have been more Pythonic, if .splitlines
> accepted an additional optional argument [...]).

I believe it's the best way.  When you can use a string method instead
of a regex, it's definitely most Pythonic to use the string method.

I would argue that this particular string method is Pythonic in
design.  Remember, Python strives not only for explicitness, but
simplicity and ease of use.  When dealing with text, universal
newlines are much more often than not simpler and easier for the
programmer.

John


From bartc at freeuk.com  Sun Aug 16 14:45:27 2009
From: bartc at freeuk.com (bartc)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 18:45:27 GMT
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
In-Reply-To: <02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 
	<02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 


"Steven D'Aprano"  wrote in message 
news:02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3 at news.astraweb.com...
> On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:25:45 -0700, Dr. Phillip M. Feldman wrote:
>
>> It seems as though Python is actually expanding range(2,n) into a list
>> of numbers, even though this is incredibly wasteful of memory. There
>> should be a looping mechanism that generates the index variable values
>> incrementally as they are needed.
>
>
> Others have already pointed out to you that xrange() (for Python 2.x)
> does what you want. In Python 3.x, the old range() is gone for good, and
> xrange() renamed to just range().

It does seem rather worrying that whoever originally thought up Python 
decided it would be a good idea to implement a simple 1 to N (or 0 to N-1) 
for-loop by first creating an array of N consecutive integers!

They must have known Python was going to be slow anyway, but this wouldn't 
have helped the speed any. Nor the memory consumption.

A for-loop, for iterating over a simple sequence, should be one of the 
fastest things in the language.

[Presumably the internal code that created those consecutive integers used a 
more conventional looping method...]

-- 
Bartc 



From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 14:50:09 2009
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 11:50:09 -0700
Subject: Splitting on '^' ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <7a9c25c20908161150ma1267b9xecc86a222312c0af@mail.gmail.com>

And .splitlines seems to be able to handle all "standard" end-of-line
> markers without any special direction (which, ironically, strikes
> me as a *little* Perlish, somehow):
>
> >>> "spam\015\012ham\015eggs\012".splitlines(True)
> ['spam\r\n', 'ham\r', 'eggs\n']
>

... actually "working correctly" and robustly is "perlish"? :)

The only reason I've ever actually used this method is this very feature of
it, that you can't readily reproduce with other methods unless you start
getting into regular expressions (and I really believe regular expressions
should not be the default place one looks to solve a problem in Python)

Then again, as soon as Python started allowing you to open files with mode
"rU", I gleefully ran through my codebase and changed every operation to
that and made sure to write out with platform-local newlines exclusively,
thus finally flipping off those darn files that users kept producing with
mixed line endings.


> Amazing.  I'm not sure this is the *best* way to do this in general
> (I would have preferred it, and IMHO it would have been more
> Pythonic, if .splitlines accepted an additional optional argument
> where one could specify the end-of-line sequence to be used for
> the splitting, defaulting to the OS's conventional sequence, and
> then it split *strictly* on that sequence).
>

If you want strict and absolute splitting, you don't need another method;
just do mystring.split(os.linesep); I mean sure, it doesn't have the
'keepends' feature -- but I don't actually understand why you want keepends
with a strict definition of endings... If you /only/ want to split on \n,
you know there's an \n on the end of each line in the returned list and can
easily be sure to write it out (for example) :)

In the modern world of mixed systems and the internet, and files being flung
around willy-nilly, and editors being configured to varying degrees of
correctness, and such.... It's Pythonic to be able to handle all these files
that anyone made on any system and treat them as they are clearly *meant* to
be treated. Since the intention *is* clear that these are all *end of line*
markers-- it's explicitly stated, just slightly differently depending on the
OS-- Python treats all of the line-endings as equal on read if you want it
to. By using either str.splitlines() or opening a text file as "rU". Thank
goodness for that :)

In some cases you may need a more pedantic approach to line endings. In that
case, just use str.split() :)

--S
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From davea at ieee.org  Sun Aug 16 14:53:08 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 14:53:08 -0400
Subject: random.gauss vs. random.normalvariate
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<89df98da-cdaf-4422-9bc0-c0b46ebefcda@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>		
	
Message-ID: <4A885594.1080703@ieee.org>

John Haggerty wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 7:23 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
>
>   
>> On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 14:34:36 -0600, John Haggerty 
>> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>>
>>     
>>> What does the term "thread safe" mean exactly. I never had to program
>>>       
>> with
>>     
>>> "threads" before
>>>       
>>         That, part way through the logic of the function, control could be
>> switched to a different thread which call the same function... This
>> second call would change some of the internal values and may then be
>> preempted and control returned to the first thread, which continues the
>> rest of the function with different values then it had when first
>> preempted.
>>
>>        A very contrived example, untested of course, consider it
>> pseudo-code...
>>
>> startt = None
>>
>> def atimer():
>>        global startt
>>        startt = time.time()
>>        time.sleep(5)
>>        print time.time() - startt
>>
>> t1 = threading.thread(atimer)
>> t2 = threading.thread(atimer)
>> t1.start()
>> t2.start()
>>
>> Say t1 gets all the way up to the sleep call, and (since sleep is a
>> releasing call), t2 then starts. t2 changes the value of startt; and
>> sleeps... both sleep and presuming the resolution is fine enough, t1
>> resumes, and  prints a delta time that is incorrect -- it is printing
>> the time difference from when t2 started to sleep, not from when t1
>> started to sleep.
>> --
>>        Wulfraed         Dennis Lee Bieber               KD6MOG
>>        wlfraed at ix.netcom.com   HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/
>>
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>>     
>
> Interesting so it seems that the compiler(c/c++)interpreter(perl,
> python)/vm(java) doesn't do this?
>
>   
It is impossible for a language, vm, or operating system to avoid 
threading problems without the programmer's help, except by trivial 
means (eg. preventing you from having them at all).

The power of threading is entirely tied up with the features the 
environment gives to the developer, and those features come with a risk.

At one extreme is the CP/M model.  You start a new program only when you 
finish the previous one.  So the only communication between them is a 
file the first one leaves behind, that the second can look at.

Next is separate processes.  If you launch a second process, by default, 
they're independent, and not likely to get into trouble.  But you can 
build pipes or shared memory, or sockets between them, and then you have 
to worry about race conditions.

Next is threads, within a single process.  At this point, you can share 
(global) variables between them, or you can have objects known to both 
when the thread is launched.  The system cannot tell which ones are 
deliberate and which ones are accidental.  So a language might give 
extra keywords to tell the compiler that certain things should be 
protected in certain ways.  Or it might give a way to declare a 
"per-thread global" that acts like a global to each thread, but is 
actually two independent variables from the process point of view.

The only real reason threads are singled out is it's easier to collide 
by mistake.  But that's also what makes it efficient to "collide" on 
purpose.

DaveA


From darkwater42 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 14:55:31 2009
From: darkwater42 at gmail.com (Douglas Alan)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 11:55:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in 
	string literals]
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> 
	
	
	 
	
	<5fcd454d-14b4-452b-91d3-938e9fa0bd18@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<02975ce6$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<029783cd$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	 
	<0297b230$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<74a3f562-6209-485e-9fbb-145ec00c331c@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<0297cd31$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <0ee729c3-22f0-450c-8fba-39ae74f7535d@d4g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 16, 6:18?am, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:

> On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 01:41:41 -0700, Douglas Alan wrote:

> > I would definitely not like a language that obscures assignment by
> > moving it over to the right side of lines.

> One could argue that left-assigned-from-right assignment obscures the
> most important part of the assignment, namely *what* you're assigning, in
> favour of what you're assigning *to*.

The most important things are always the side-effects and the name-
bindings.

In a large program, it can be difficult to figure out where a name is
defined, or which version of a name a particular line of code is
seeing. Consequently languages should always go out of their way to
make tracking this as easy as possible.

Side effects are also a huge issue, and a source of many bugs. This is
one of the reasons that that are many functional languages that
prohibit or discourage side-effects. Side effects should be made as
obvious as is feasible.

This is why, for instance, in Scheme, variable assignment as an
exclamation mark in it. E.g.,

   (set! x (+ x 1))

The exclamation mark is to make the fact that a side effect is
happening there stand out and be immediately apparent. And C++
provides the "const" declaration for similar reasons.

> In any case, after half a century of left-from-right assignment, I think
> it's worth the experiment in a teaching language or three to try it the
> other way. The closest to this I know of is the family of languages
> derived from Apple's Hypertalk, where you do assignment with:
>
> put somevalue into name

That's okay with me, but only because the statement begins with "put",
which lets you know at the very beginning of the line that something
very important is happening. You don't have to scan all the way to the
right before you notice.

Still, I would prefer

   let name = somevalue

as the "let" gives me the heads up right away, and then immediately
after the "let" is the name that I might want to be able to scan for
quickly.

|>ouglas


From psilord at merlin.cs.wisc.edu  Sun Aug 16 15:17:02 2009
From: psilord at merlin.cs.wisc.edu (Peter Keller)
Date: 16 Aug 2009 19:17:02 GMT
Subject: Xah's Edu Corner: The importance of syntax & notations.
References: 
	<4a882e2d$0$9897$80265adb@spool.cs.wisc.edu>
	<5031edcc-c63e-4a3b-9f12-caba0cc34e92@r18g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a885b2e$0$9897$80265adb@spool.cs.wisc.edu>

In comp.lang.scheme w_a_x_man  wrote:
> On Aug 16, 11:05?am, Petey Keller  wrote:
>>  Compiler go through *great* pains
> 
> Compiler work real hard.
> Compiler have heap big trouble.

That's a funny observation in the context of this thread--which I
appreciate, since syntax really is the cornerstone of meaning transferal
between people. The unintended connotation brought in by what I mistakenly
wrote underscores the value of syntax.

However, what we don't have is a means of measuring the effectiveness
and/or efficiency of expressing meaning for an arbitrary set of syntax
rules. Computer Scientists can do this somewhat in that the expressive
power of parsing is greater than regular expressions and both can use a
syntax to represent them. But in a single complexity class, the "black
art" of how to place a metric on a syntax is, at least at this time,
relegated to the right brain and how it visually sees (and visually
parses) the syntax and how our emotions relate to the syntax.

The wolfram article, in fact, never does mention any metric other than
"this is hard to understand, this is less hard to understand". In a sense,
how is that useful at all?  Instead of really trying to find a method
by which understanding can be placed upon a metric (or discovering a
method *can not* be found, he seems to anecdotally ascribe understanding
difficulty upon various syntaxs.

The real frustrations of Xah Lee might be explained by his denial of the
right brain processing of syntax information. It is to be expected since
most industrial cultures suppress right brain advancement (emotional
understanding/social interaction, drawing, music, spatial relations) in
lieu of left brain processing (language and syntax, symbolic manipulation
(part, though not all of the skill set of math), object naming). In
fact, his skills of communicating his ideas in a social setting which,
in my opinion, are poor and stunted, is a red flag and the epitome of
this type of cultural viewpoint.

Thank you.

-pete


From sajmikins at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 15:36:20 2009
From: sajmikins at gmail.com (Simon Forman)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 12:36:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Splitting a string into substrings of equal size
References: <4a85ffe2$0$24643$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 14, 8:22?pm, candide  wrote:
> Suppose you need to split a string into substrings of a given size (except
> possibly the last substring). I make the hypothesis the first slice is at the
> end of the string.
> A typical example is provided by formatting a decimal string with thousands
> separator.
>
> What is the pythonic way to do this ?
>
> For my part, i reach to this rather complicated code:
>
> # ----------------------
>
> def comaSep(z,k=3, sep=','):
> ? ? z=z[::-1]
> ? ? x=[z[k*i:k*(i+1)][::-1] for i in range(1+(len(z)-1)/k)][::-1]
> ? ? return sep.join(x)
>
> # Test
> for z in ["75096042068045", "509", "12024", "7", "2009"]:
> ? ? print z+" --> ", comaSep(z)
>
> # ----------------------
>
> outputting :
>
> 75096042068045 --> ?75,096,042,068,045
> 509 --> ?509
> 12024 --> ?12,024
> 7 --> ?7
> 2009 --> ?2,009
>
> Thanks

FWIW:

def chunks(s, length=3):
    stop = len(s)
    start = stop - length
    while start > 0:
        yield s[start:stop]
        stop, start = start, start - length
    yield s[:stop]


s = '1234567890'
print ','.join(reversed(list(chunks(s))))
# prints '1,234,567,890'


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sun Aug 16 16:00:27 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 21:00:27 +0100
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <4A88655B.2070108@mrabarnett.plus.com>

bartc wrote:
> 
> "Steven D'Aprano"  wrote in 
> message news:02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3 at news.astraweb.com...
>> On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:25:45 -0700, Dr. Phillip M. Feldman wrote:
>>
>>> It seems as though Python is actually expanding range(2,n) into a list
>>> of numbers, even though this is incredibly wasteful of memory. There
>>> should be a looping mechanism that generates the index variable values
>>> incrementally as they are needed.
>>
>>
>> Others have already pointed out to you that xrange() (for Python 2.x)
>> does what you want. In Python 3.x, the old range() is gone for good, and
>> xrange() renamed to just range().
> 
> It does seem rather worrying that whoever originally thought up Python 
> decided it would be a good idea to implement a simple 1 to N (or 0 to 
> N-1) for-loop by first creating an array of N consecutive integers!
> 
Whoever? I am shocked! ;-)

> They must have known Python was going to be slow anyway, but this 
> wouldn't have helped the speed any. Nor the memory consumption.
> 
> A for-loop, for iterating over a simple sequence, should be one of the 
> fastest things in the language.
> 
> [Presumably the internal code that created those consecutive integers 
> used a more conventional looping method...]
> 



From shailen.tuli at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 16:13:32 2009
From: shailen.tuli at gmail.com (Shailen)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 13:13:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: zip codes
Message-ID: <35833d36-2fdc-4ed8-8142-604af3c88afe@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

Is there any Python module that helps with US and foreign zip-code
lookups? I'm thinking of something that provides basic mappings of zip
to cities, city to zips, etc. Since this kind of information is so
often used for basic user-registration, I'm assuming functionality of
this sort must be available for Python. Any suggestions will be much
appreciated.

- Shailen Tuli


From no.email at please.post  Sun Aug 16 16:29:15 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 20:29:15 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: XPath support?
Message-ID: 



I'm looking for a XML parser that produces an object with full
XPath support.  What I've been using up to now, xml.etree.ElementTree,
fails to support Xpath predicates, as in "spam[@eggs='3']/ham".

What I'm trying to do is to read-in a large XML string, and parse
it into an object from which I can extract nodes matching selectors
that include such predicates.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

TIA!

kynn


From deets at nospam.web.de  Sun Aug 16 16:31:24 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 22:31:24 +0200
Subject: XPath support?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7er8ksF2hmnmqU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

kj schrieb:
> I'm looking for a XML parser that produces an object with full
> XPath support.  What I've been using up to now, xml.etree.ElementTree,
> fails to support Xpath predicates, as in "spam[@eggs='3']/ham".
> 
> What I'm trying to do is to read-in a large XML string, and parse
> it into an object from which I can extract nodes matching selectors
> that include such predicates.
> 
> Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Try lxml. It's element-tree compatible, and supports xpath.

Diez


From kevin.p.dwyer at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 16:37:16 2009
From: kevin.p.dwyer at gmail.com (Kev Dwyer)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 20:37:16 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: XPath support?
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 20:29:15 +0000, kj wrote:

> I'm looking for a XML parser that produces an object with full XPath
> support.  What I've been using up to now, xml.etree.ElementTree, fails
> to support Xpath predicates, as in "spam[@eggs='3']/ham".
> 
> What I'm trying to do is to read-in a large XML string, and parse it
> into an object from which I can extract nodes matching selectors that
> include such predicates.
> 
> Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> TIA!
> 
> kynn


Have you tried lxml (http://codespeak.net/lxml/)?

Kev



From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Sun Aug 16 16:41:07 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 13:41:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
References:  
	<02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On 16 Aug, 11:45, "bartc"  wrote:

> A for-loop, for iterating over a simple sequence, should be one of the
> fastest things in the language.

Anyone experienced with interpreted high-level languages knows this is
not true. Not because iterating a sequence is expensive, but because
the interpreter is constantly executing the body of the loop. There is
a reason why Matlab and Python/NumPy programmers rely heavily on
vectorized array expressions for efficient numerics.

The only thing more evil than a for-loop is recursive function calls.

This does not mean Python is slow. It just means you have to program
differently.









From http  Sun Aug 16 16:42:56 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 16 Aug 2009 13:42:56 -0700
Subject: random.gauss vs. random.normalvariate
References: 
	<89df98da-cdaf-4422-9bc0-c0b46ebefcda@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
	
	<7xd46ws86b.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
Message-ID: <7xbpmfqylr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Dennis Lee Bieber  writes:
> > > 	No language can guard against independent access of a shared/global
> > > object by multiple threads...
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erlang_(programming_language)
> """
> Like operating system processes (and unlike green threads and operating
> system threads) they have NO SHARED STATE between them.
> """
> which seems to reinforce my statement, not refute it.

Id say Erlang guards against independent access of shared/global
objects by not allowing them.

> (The Amiga was heavily dependent upon message ports... Having to
> copy data buffers between processes would have slowed the system
> down drastically [8MHz processor, in those days],

It's perfectly ok for Erlang implementation to just pass pointers
around, when the processes are on the same machine.  Erlang prohibits
data mutation so there isn't an issue of a process modifying some
structure while another process is using it.


From toby at telegraphics.com.au  Sun Aug 16 16:51:21 2009
From: toby at telegraphics.com.au (toby)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 13:51:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Xah's Edu Corner: The importance of syntax & notations.
References: 
	<4a882e2d$0$9897$80265adb@spool.cs.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <4f0af709-527a-47db-8a8a-b0b42c6fe34d@d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 16, 12:05?pm, Peter Keller  wrote:
> In comp.lang.scheme Xah Lee  wrote:
>
> > Xah's Edu Corner: The importance of syntax & notations.
>
> >http://www.stephenwolfram.com/publications/recent/mathml/mathml_abstr...
>
> > this article should teach the coding sophomorons and computer
> > ?science? idiotic authors who harbor the notion that syntax is not
> > important, picked up by all the elite i-reddit & twittering & ?hacker
> > news am-hip dunces.
>
> I must have really tweaked you with my "Syntax is not important, ideas are."
> statement.
>
> I read Wolfram's article carefully. He applies an intuitive sense onto
> why he does or doesn't like a particular notation, but yet can't really
> elucidate his feelings.

Exactly; and as far as I can determine, Knuth does the same. He
applies standards of *good taste* to his notation. (No surprise that
he's also singled out for vituperation by the OP.)

In my opinion Knuth believed in the value of literate programming for
similar reasons: To try to exploit existing cognitive training. If
your user base is familiar with English, or mathematical notation, or
some other lexicography, try to exploit the pre-wired associations.
Clearly this involves some intuition.

> ...
> Thank you.
>
> -pete



From fateman at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 17:00:42 2009
From: fateman at gmail.com (rjf)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 14:00:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Xah's Edu Corner: The importance of syntax & notations.
References: 
	<4a882e2d$0$9897$80265adb@spool.cs.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <75e1deb2-f879-4deb-bd50-56954dfefc64@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 16, 9:05?am, Peter Keller  wrote:
> In comp.lang.scheme Xah Lee  wrote:
>
> > Xah's Edu Corner: The importance of syntax & notations.
>
> >http://www.stephenwolfram.com/publications/recent/mathml/mathml_abstr...
>
> > this article should teach the coding sophomorons and computer
> > ?science? idiotic authors who harbor the notion that syntax is not
> > important, picked up by all the elite i-reddit & twittering & ?hacker
> > news am-hip dunces.
>
> I must have really tweaked you with my "Syntax is not important, ideas are."
> statement.
>
> I read Wolfram's article carefully. He applies an intuitive sense onto
> why he does or doesn't like a particular notation, but yet can't really
> elucidate his feelings. I'm surprised that didn't tweak you worse. He
> also goes so far as to mention that:
>
> "But actually we still don't know a clean simple way to represent things
> like geometrical diagrams in a kind of language-like notation. And
> my guess is that actually of all the math-like stuff out there, only
> a comparatively small fraction can actually be represented well with
> language-like notation."
>


For someone talking about notation and language, it is amusing that
Wolfram refuses to write grammatically correct sentences.  Each of the
pseudo-sentences quoted above is a dependent clause.  Wolfram writes
like that. He typically begins sentences with "but" or "and".

In the article cited, he also claims to be more-or-less the only
person alive to have thought about these issues, and that Mathematica
is the solution.  This is not surprising,and it is nevertheless clear
that Wolfram has spent some time thinking about mathematical notation,
and some money developing fonts and such.  His self-praise is perhaps
not deserved.

It is unfortunate that most users of Mathematica labor under a
misunderstanding of the meaning of the fundamental algorithmic
notation of that system, namely "function definition".

f[x_]:=x+1    is not a function definition, although most users think
so.

In fact, it is a pattern/replacement rule.

If you want to write the equivalent of the lisp (defun f(x)(+ x 1))
you can do so in mathematica, but it looks like this:

f=#1+1&

or alternatively,

f=Function[Plus[Slot[1],1]]

or alternatively,

f= Function[{x},x+1]


How do those choices grab you for the Emmy in "Excellence in
Notation"?

By the way, what is wrong with f[x_]:=x+1?

While you might think it maps  x->x+1 for all x,  it does so only in
the absence of other rules involving f.  Thus the presence of another
definition (actually another rule) ... f[z_]:=z^2/;OddQ[z]  changes
the definition when the argument is an odd integer.
An equivalent definition is
f[z_?OddQ]:=z^2

now you could have 2 rules
f[x_?Predicate1]:= 123
f[x_?Predicate2]:= 456

and it might not be clear which Predicate is a subset of the other.
(It is clear that the blank pattern "_" is a superset of "_?OddQ" ).

So how does Mathematica deal with this situation?
The predicates are tested in some order until one returns True.
What order is that?

 "Whenever the appropriate ordering is not clear, Mathematica stores
rules in the order you give them. "
Oh, when is the ordering not clear?

Uh, "you should realize that this [ordering] is not always possible".
(quotes from mathematica documentation , TheOrderingOfDefinitions.)

While Wolfram has provided an admirable summary of the history of
notation, his solution is less so.

RJF



From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Sun Aug 16 17:10:05 2009
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 22:10:05 +0100
Subject: zip codes
In-Reply-To: <35833d36-2fdc-4ed8-8142-604af3c88afe@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <35833d36-2fdc-4ed8-8142-604af3c88afe@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Shailen wrote:
> Is there any Python module that helps with US and foreign zip-code
> lookups? I'm thinking of something that provides basic mappings of zip
> to cities, city to zips, etc. Since this kind of information is so
> often used for basic user-registration, I'm assuming functionality of
> this sort must be available for Python. Any suggestions will be much
> appreciated.
> 
There might be an associated can of worms here, for example in the 
Netherlands zip codes are actually copyrighted and require a license if 
you want to do something with them, on the other hand you get a nice SQL 
formatted db to use it. I don't know how this works in other countries 
but I imagine that it is likely to be generally the same.

-- 
MPH
http://blog.dcuktec.com
'If consumed, best digested with added seasoning to own preference.'


From rylesny at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 17:10:25 2009
From: rylesny at gmail.com (ryles)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 14:10:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python 2.6 still not giving memory back to the OS...
References: 
Message-ID: <79bbe86b-0d3b-4f03-b0df-be4b3308d4cd@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 15, 7:55?am, Chris Withers  wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I thought this was fixed back in Python 2.5, but I guess not?
>
> So, I'm playing in an interactive session:
>
> ?>>> from xlrd import open_workbook
> ?>>> b = open_workbook('some.xls',pickleable=0,formatting_info=1)
>
> At this point, top shows the process usage for python to be about 500Mb.
> That's okay, I'd expect that, b is big ;-)
>
> ?>>> del b
>
> However, it still does now, maybe the garbage collector needs a kick?
>
> ?>>> import gc
> ?>>> gc.collect()
> 702614
>
> Nope, still 500Mb. What gives? How can I make Python give the memory its
> no longer using back to the OS?
>
> Okay, so maybe this is something to do with it being an interactive
> session? So I wrote this script:
>
> from xlrd import open_workbook
> import gc
> b = open_workbook('some.xls',pickleable=0,formatting_info=1)
> print 'opened'
> raw_input()
> del b
> print 'deleted'
> raw_input()
> gc.collect()
> print 'gc'
> raw_input()
>
> The raw inputs are there so I can check the memory usage in top.
> Even after the gc, Python still hasn't given the memory back to the OS :-(
>
> What am I doing wrong?
>
> Chris
>
> --
> Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting
> ? ? ? ? ? ? -http://www.simplistix.co.uk

Repeat the 'b = open_workbook ...' line in the interpreter several
times and track the memory usage after each execution. I noticed this
behavior on linux, but saw that after repeating it a few times memory
usage finally stop going up. Probably just the behavior of the
allocator.


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Aug 16 17:24:17 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 16 Aug 2009 14:24:17 -0700
Subject: Nltk with python
References: <82c9f923-1098-4b7e-8f9d-9504c1a8962c@12g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

In article <82c9f923-1098-4b7e-8f9d-9504c1a8962c at 12g2000pri.googlegroups.com>,
ArshaKrishna   wrote:
>
>How can I resolve scope ambiguity using nltk toolkit with python

Question not clear, please provide more explanation
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I saw `cout' being shifted "Hello world" times to the left and stopped
right there."  --Steve Gonedes


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Aug 16 17:25:12 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 16 Aug 2009 14:25:12 -0700
Subject: zip codes
References: <35833d36-2fdc-4ed8-8142-604af3c88afe@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

In article <35833d36-2fdc-4ed8-8142-604af3c88afe at k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
Shailen   wrote:
>
>Is there any Python module that helps with US and foreign zip-code
>lookups? I'm thinking of something that provides basic mappings of zip
>to cities, city to zips, etc. Since this kind of information is so
>often used for basic user-registration, I'm assuming functionality of
>this sort must be available for Python. Any suggestions will be much
>appreciated.

There's no module; you have to purchase the information and then massage
it yourself.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I saw `cout' being shifted "Hello world" times to the left and stopped
right there."  --Steve Gonedes


From nagle at animats.com  Sun Aug 16 17:58:40 2009
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 14:58:40 -0700
Subject: Xah's Edu Corner: The importance of syntax & notations.
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4a888022$0$1637$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

Xah Lee wrote:
> Xah's Edu Corner: The importance of syntax & notations.
> 
> http://www.stephenwolfram.com/publications/recent/mathml/mathml_abstract.html
> 
> this article should teach the coding sophomorons and computer
> ?science? idiotic authors who harbor the notion that syntax is not
> important, picked up by all the elite i-reddit & twittering &  hacker
> news am-hip dunces.

    Definitely read Wolfram's paper.  He and his people actually had
to solve the problem.

    Wolfram had to face up to the big problem - how do we input traditional
mathematics into a computer unambiguously.  Version 1 was Mathematica
FullForm, which is very wordy but clear, like Ada.  This worked, but
was too clunky.  After a few redesigns, they came up with what he
calls StandardForm, which is Mathematica's variant on what he calls
"TraditionalForm", or mathematics as currently written in textbooks.
The differences are subtle; the main one is that precedence is more
explicit, and a "double strike" convention is used to disambiguate
certain meta-symbols, like the "d" used in derivatives and "i" used
as sqrt(-1).

StandardForm is unambiguous.  TraditionalForm is not, as anyone who
spends too much time reading other people's math publications realizes.
Cleverly, the Mathematica people have been able to produce a set of
heuristics which, Wolfram claims, allows converting traditional form
into the unambiguous StandardForm, getting it right most of the time.
(I've been struggling to read a paper on machine learning which has some
non-standard operator precedence problems, and I wish the paper was in
StandardForm.)

    Wolfram would, I think, like to make "StandardForm" the standard for
publication, and in time, something like that will probably happen.
It's useful to be able to get math in and out of symbolic manipulation
systems.

    Anyway, read the paper.

				John Nagle


From shailen.tuli at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 18:26:27 2009
From: shailen.tuli at gmail.com (Shailen)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 15:26:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: zip codes
References: <35833d36-2fdc-4ed8-8142-604af3c88afe@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <512e67d9-8733-4329-a7d9-c6e21d6a2165@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

Thanks Martin and Aahz. Anyone know if zip code information is
copyrighted for the US? Anyone can look up zip codes on usps.gov (and
other locations),so the information is readily available. I need zip
codes for a handful of cities and could map those myself (or write a
script to scrape them for me), but am not sure if they *MUST* be
purchased for copyright reasons. Anyone know?

- Shailen Tuli


From davea at ieee.org  Sun Aug 16 18:27:47 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 18:27:47 -0400
Subject: redoing libgmail interface to "smtplib" blah?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 		
	
Message-ID: <4A8887E3.3050000@ieee.org>

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 23:14:39 -0600, John Haggerty 
> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>
>   
>> I did detect one problem thus far
>>
>>  File "test.py", line 152
>>     if len(args) == 1 and args[0] = "-c":
>>
>>     
> 	Should have been fine, unless my memory of sys.argv contents was
> wrong (as I recall, sys.argv, if it behaves like other languages, would
>   
> 
You missed the actual problem:   there's a single '=' in the second part 
of the if expression.  Should be "=="

DaveA


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Sun Aug 16 18:35:26 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 15:35:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
References:  
	<02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	 
	
Message-ID: <4434e799-d907-49ca-93ee-a4be3276f9c2@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

On 16 Aug, 14:57, Dennis Lee Bieber  wrote:

> ? ? ? ? Well, the alternative would be to have two keywords for looping: one
> for your "simple" incrementing integer loop, and another for a loop that
> operates over the elements of some collection type.

A compiler could easily recognise a statement like

   for i in range(n):

as a simple integer loop. In fact, Cython is able to do this.








From http  Sun Aug 16 19:17:59 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 16 Aug 2009 16:17:59 -0700
Subject: zip codes
References: <35833d36-2fdc-4ed8-8142-604af3c88afe@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
	<512e67d9-8733-4329-a7d9-c6e21d6a2165@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7x63cnbb6g.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Shailen  writes:
> Thanks Martin and Aahz. Anyone know if zip code information is
> copyrighted for the US? Anyone can look up zip codes on usps.gov (and
> other locations),so the information is readily available. I need zip
> codes for a handful of cities and could map those myself (or write a
> script to scrape them for me), but am not sure if they *MUST* be
> purchased for copyright reasons. Anyone know?

I don't think US zip code info is copyrighted.  There is a lot of it
in the TIGER database:

  http://www.census.gov/geo/www/tiger/tigerua/ua_tgr2k.html

There are also some API's operated by usps.com if you want just a few
lookups now and then.

It was a long time ago, I don't remember specifics, and the contents
are surely out of date by now, but I extracted a bunch of the TIGER
geographic coordinates for zip codes here:

  http://www.nightsong.com/phr/chess/zipcodes.zip


From http  Sun Aug 16 19:32:31 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 16 Aug 2009 16:32:31 -0700
Subject: zip codes
References: <35833d36-2fdc-4ed8-8142-604af3c88afe@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
	<512e67d9-8733-4329-a7d9-c6e21d6a2165@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<7x63cnbb6g.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <7xws539vxs.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

> It was a long time ago, I don't remember specifics, and the contents
> are surely out of date by now, but I extracted a bunch of the TIGER
> geographic coordinates for zip codes here:
> 
>   http://www.nightsong.com/phr/chess/zipcodes.zip

That file may have actually come from here:

  http://www.census.gov/geo/www/tiger/zip1999.html


From invalid at invalid  Sun Aug 16 20:07:18 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 19:07:18 -0500
Subject: zip codes
References: <35833d36-2fdc-4ed8-8142-604af3c88afe@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
	<512e67d9-8733-4329-a7d9-c6e21d6a2165@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-16, Shailen  wrote:

> Thanks Martin and Aahz. Anyone know if zip code information is
> copyrighted for the US?

You can't copyright "information" as such.  Only concrete
expressions of information.  A particular publication
containing zip code information can be copyrighted.  The
underlying facts themselve cannot be.

-- 
Grant




From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Sun Aug 16 21:23:20 2009
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 21:23:20 -0400
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
In-Reply-To: <4434e799-d907-49ca-93ee-a4be3276f9c2@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<4434e799-d907-49ca-93ee-a4be3276f9c2@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 6:35 PM, sturlamolden  wrote:
>
> A compiler could easily recognise a statement like
>
> ? for i in range(n):
>
> as a simple integer loop. In fact, Cython is able to do this.

but special cases aren't special enough to break the rules.


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Sun Aug 16 21:23:23 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 18:23:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
References:  
	<02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	 
	
	<4434e799-d907-49ca-93ee-a4be3276f9c2@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 17, 8:35?am, sturlamolden  wrote:

> A compiler could easily recognise a statement like
> ? ?for i in range(n):
> as a simple integer loop. In fact, Cython is able to do this.

Extremely easy, once users relinquish the right to replace built-in
"range" with their own concoctions ...



From exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  Sun Aug 16 21:28:40 2009
From: exarkun at twistedmatrix.com (exarkun at twistedmatrix.com)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 01:28:40 -0000
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<4434e799-d907-49ca-93ee-a4be3276f9c2@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <20090817012840.8740.554583249.divmod.xquotient.17@localhost.localdomain>

On 01:23 am, benjamin.kaplan at case.edu wrote:
>On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 6:35 PM, sturlamolden  
>wrote:
>>
>>A compiler could easily recognise a statement like
>>
>>? for i in range(n):
>>
>>as a simple integer loop. In fact, Cython is able to do this.
>
>but special cases aren't special enough to break the rules.

Although I think PyPy also recognizes this case and makes it as 
efficient as using xrange, and does so without breaking any rules.

There *are* _some_ legitimate complaints to be made about the CPython 
runtime. :)

Jean-Paul


From http  Sun Aug 16 21:44:33 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 16 Aug 2009 18:44:33 -0700
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
References: 
	<02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<4434e799-d907-49ca-93ee-a4be3276f9c2@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <7xtz079ptq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

exarkun at twistedmatrix.com writes:
> Although I think PyPy also recognizes this case and makes it as
> efficient as using xrange, and does so without breaking any rules.

How can pypy possibly know that the user hasn't assigned some other
value to "range"?


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 21:53:10 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 18:53:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
References:  
	<02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	 
	
	<4434e799-d907-49ca-93ee-a4be3276f9c2@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	 
	
Message-ID: <900c0d5e-a41a-4820-9844-816afa1a33c9@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 16, 6:28?pm, exar... at twistedmatrix.com wrote:
> On 01:23 am, benjamin.kap... at case.edu wrote:
>
> >On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 6:35 PM, sturlamolden 
> >wrote:
>
> >>A compiler could easily recognise a statement like
>
> >>? for i in range(n):
>
> >>as a simple integer loop. In fact, Cython is able to do this.
>
> >but special cases aren't special enough to break the rules.
>
> Although I think PyPy also recognizes this case and makes it as
> efficient as using xrange, and does so without breaking any rules.

PyPy uses a JIT compiler (which is still slower than CPython,
suggesting that perhaps they should have spent more time optimizing
the general case than optimizing for an easily avoided special case).


> There *are* _some_ legitimate complaints to be made about the CPython
> runtime. :)

This isn't one of them.

xrange has been part of Python for 10 years.

If there are any complaints to be made about this situation it's that
there are any 2.x learning materials anythere that continue to use
range() and not xrange() in this context.


Carl Banks


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 22:12:20 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 19:12:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
References:  
	<02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	 
	
	<4434e799-d907-49ca-93ee-a4be3276f9c2@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3c0abe16-f05a-4c5f-9773-f813bc424f14@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 16, 3:35?pm, sturlamolden  wrote:
> On 16 Aug, 14:57, Dennis Lee Bieber  wrote:
>
> > ? ? ? ? Well, the alternative would be to have two keywords for looping: one
> > for your "simple" incrementing integer loop, and another for a loop that
> > operates over the elements of some collection type.
>
> A compiler could easily recognise a statement like
>
> ? ?for i in range(n):
>
> as a simple integer loop.

It would be a simple to do if you were writing it for a different
langauge was a lot less dynamic than Python is.  It'd be quite a
complex hack to add it to CPython's compiler while maintaing the
current highly dynamic runtime semantics and backwards compatibility,
which is a design constraint of Python whether you like it or not.

And all this complaining about an issue that can be worked around by
xrange instead of range.  Sheesh.


> In fact, Cython is able to do this.

Cython can do this easily because it is a different language that is a
lot less dynamic than Python.

If you don't care about the dynamic stuff why don't you just use
Cython?  Or quit complaining and just use xrange.


Carl Banks


From nobody at nowhere.com  Sun Aug 16 22:21:43 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 03:21:43 +0100
Subject: OT Signature quote [was Re: Unrecognized escape sequences in
	string literals]
References: <6e13754c-1fa6-4d1b-8861-146bffec8656@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<02957d23$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	
	
	<5fcd454d-14b4-452b-91d3-938e9fa0bd18@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<02975ce6$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<029783cd$0$20634$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 05:05:01 +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> Now that I understand what the semantics of cout << "Hello world" are, I 
> don't have any problem with it either. It is a bit weird, "Hello world" 
> >> cout would probably be better,

Placing the stream on the LHS allows the main forms of << to be
implemented as methods of the ostream class. C++ only considers the LHS
operand when attempting to resolve an infix operator as a method.

Also, << and >> are left-associative, and that cannot be changed by
overloading. Having the ostream on the LHS allows the operators to be
chained:

	cout << "Hello" << ", " << "world" << endl

equivalent to:

	(((cout << "Hello") << ", ") << "world") << endl

[operator<< returns the ostream as its result.]

Even if you could make >> right-associative, the values would have to be
written right-to-left:

	endl >> "world" >> ", " >> "Hello" >> cout
i.e.:
	endl >> ("world" >> (", " >> ("Hello" >> cout)))



From benjamin at python.org  Sun Aug 16 22:55:14 2009
From: benjamin at python.org (Benjamin Peterson)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 21:55:14 -0500
Subject: [RELEASED] Python 3.1.1
Message-ID: <1afaf6160908161955k6968c378md76ec37cba4865aa@mail.gmail.com>

On behalf of the Python development team, I'm happy to announce the first bugfix
release of the Python 3.1 series, Python 3.1.1.

This bug fix release fixes many normal bugs and several critical ones including
potential data corruption in the io library.

Python 3.1 focuses on the stabilization and optimization of the features and
changes that Python 3.0 introduced.  For example, the new I/O system has been
rewritten in C for speed.  File system APIs that use unicode strings now handle
paths with undecodable bytes in them. Other features include an ordered
dictionary implementation, a condensed syntax for nested with statements, and
support for ttk Tile in Tkinter.  For a more extensive list of changes in 3.1,
see http://doc.python.org/3.1/whatsnew/3.1.html or Misc/NEWS in the Python
distribution.

Please note the Windows and Mac binaries are not available yet but
will be in the coming days.

To download Python 3.1.1 visit:

     http://www.python.org/download/releases/3.1.1/

The 3.1 documentation can be found at:

     http://docs.python.org/3.1

Bugs can always be reported to:

     http://bugs.python.org


Enjoy!

--
Benjamin Peterson
Release Manager
benjamin at python.org
(on behalf of the entire python-dev team and 3.1.1's contributors)


From xahlee at gmail.com  Sun Aug 16 23:00:23 2009
From: xahlee at gmail.com (Xah Lee)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 20:00:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<269572f2-5968-479b-a7e6-d3354a769250@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Thanks Raymond.

I've been out of python community for a couple of years. I've saved
your messages and will study it later when next time i work in python.
Possibly today and will reply in some of your points.

But just wanted to say thanks for improving python.

Also, sometimes ago out of the blue i noticed someone has posted a bug
on python's gzip doc with acknowledgement. http://bugs.python.org/issue2406

Thank you M.-A. DARCHE (madarche).

Also, i noticed python doc now and later has improved a lot since last
i looked around python 2.4. For one thing, the html/xhtml is now valid
html. Good riddence of the fucking TeX. Also, code examples have
syntax coloring on.

  Xah
? http://xahlee.org/

?


On Aug 12, 12:15 pm, Raymond Hettinger  wrote:
> [Xah Lee]
>
> > i've wrote several articles about this issue, total time spend on this
> > is probably more than 2 months full-time work. See:
>
> > ? Python Documentation Problems
> >  http://xahlee.org/perl-python/python_doc_index.html
>
> I just read you post.   You did devote a substantial amount of time
> to the project.  Some of your criticisms are valid.  Wish you had
> posted patches, I think many of them would have been accepted.
>
> Since you wrote this a few years ago, many examples have
> been added to the docs and more are forthcoming.
>
> > I often receive thank you emails for 2 particular articles, which are
> > most frequently google searched as indicated by my weblog:
>
> > ? Python Doc Problem Example: gzip
> >  http://xahlee.org/perl-python/python_doc_gzip.html
>
> > ? Python Doc Problem Example: sort()
> >  http://xahlee.org/perl-python/python_doc_sort.html
>
> > ? Sorting in Python and Perl
> >  http://xahlee.org/perl-python/sort_list.html
>
> Some are the criticisms are valid; others seem off-base.
>
> Here are a few thoughts on list.sort() for those who are interested:
>
> * The key= and reversed= parameters are not intended for special
> cases, leaving cmp= for the general case.  They were intended to
> be full replacements.  In Python3.x, the cmp function is gone.
>
> * The interaction of the key= and cmp= functions can be made to
> interact (the key function is first applied to every element and
> the cmp function then gets applied to the results of the key
> function).  This isn't a normal or intended use case, so the docs
> don't delve into the subject.
>
> * The reversed parameter does more than list.sort() followed by
> list.reverse().  It also preserves stability in the event of equal
> keys:
>
>    >>> sorted([(1,2), (1,3)], key=itemgetter(0), reverse=True)
>    [(1,2), (1,3)]
>
> So it was not correct to say that the following are equivalent:
>
>     li.sort(lambda x, y: cmp(x[1],y[1]), reverse=True)
>     li.sort(lambda x, y: cmp(y[1],x[1]))
>
> * We should link the sorted() and list.sort() docs to the
> sorting how-to (with a fuller discussion on the art of sorting
> including a discussion of operator.itemgetter() and
> operator.attrgetter() which were designed to work with the key=
> parameter.
>
> Raymond


From nobody at nowhere.com  Sun Aug 16 23:10:17 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 04:10:17 +0100
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
References: <24980842.post@talk.nabble.com> <4A8612CE.7080700@stoneleaf.us>
	<200908160830.55031.emmanuel.surleau@gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 11:41:21 -0400, Benjamin Kaplan wrote:

> It's not that the code is bad, but too many people coming from Java
> and C keep thinking of for loops like they're using Java or C and
> therefore that "for i in range(a,b)" is identical to "for(int i = a; i
> < b; i++)". It's not and, for the most part, you shouldn't code like
> that. Since you're using numbers, range/xrange is the appropriate
> idiom but you still have to remember that a for loop in python doesn't
> loop until a condition is met, it loops through an iterator until the
> interator says it's done.

Java also has iterators; it's more a case of people coming from C and BASIC.

Although, some of those may have come *through* Java without abandoning
old habits. You see the same thing with people coming from BASIC to C and
writing:

	#define NUM_DATES 50
	int day[NUM_DATES], month[NUM_DATES], year[NUM_DATES];

rather than defining a "struct".

Sometimes referred to as "I know ten languages and can write in BASIC in
all of them".



From nobody at nowhere.com  Sun Aug 16 23:32:07 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 04:32:07 +0100
Subject: wxFormBuilder finally supports wxPython
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 03:19:51 -0700, sturlamolden wrote:

> Version 3.1 of wxFormBuilder can generate wxPython code. I have
> previously used wxFormBuilder to generate XRC files for my wxPython
> projects. Though still in beta, this might be even better. :-)

Is there a reason to prefer code over XRC?



From jon at ffconsultancy.com  Mon Aug 17 00:05:46 2009
From: jon at ffconsultancy.com (Jon Harrop)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 05:05:46 +0100
Subject: Xah's Edu Corner: The importance of syntax & notations.
References: 
	<4a882e2d$0$9897$80265adb@spool.cs.wisc.edu>
	<5031edcc-c63e-4a3b-9f12-caba0cc34e92@r18g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

w_a_x_man wrote:
> On Aug 16, 11:05?am, Petey Keller  wrote:
>>  Compiler go through *great* pains
> 
> Compiler work real hard.
> Compiler have heap big trouble.

ROTFL. :-)

-- 
Dr Jon D Harrop, Flying Frog Consultancy Ltd.
http://www.ffconsultancy.com/?u


From xahlee at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 00:43:48 2009
From: xahlee at gmail.com (Xah Lee)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 21:43:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: python doc available in emacs info format?
Message-ID: 

btw, is there still info format for python doc?

i feel kinda sad that emacs info format has pretty much been
deprecated over the past decade. About a decade ago, you still will
see now and then people asking for emacs info format of docs (was the
days of perl). Today, one don't hear of it.

Part of this is due to emacs cult problem. See:

? Emacs Modernization
  http://xahlee.org/emacs/emacs_modernization.html

? Emacs Should Adopt HTML To Replace Texinfo
  http://xahlee.org/emacs/modernization_html_vs_info.html

? Language, Purity, Cult, and Deception
  http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/lang_purity_cult_deception.html

  Xah
? http://xahlee.org/

?

On Dec 11 2008, 6:56 am, Matthias  wrote:
> Xah Lee  writes:
> > in programing elisp in emacs, i can press ?Ctrl+h f? to lookup
> > the doc for the function under cursor.   is there such facility
> > when coding in perl, python, php?
>
> Yes, try C-h S (or similarly  S):
>
>      (info-lookup-symbol SYMBOL &optional MODE)  Display the
> definition of SYMBOL, as found in the relevant manual. When this
> command is called interactively, it reads SYMBOL from the
> minibuffer.
>
> Note that `the relevant manual' means an info file. With recent
> emacsen on an Ubuntu distro, python arrives with info files and
> everything is well configured. It also works with bash, latex, perl,
> scheme, elisp, awk, texinfo, makefile, libc, or any info file with an
> index.
> --
> Matthias


From psilord at merlin.cs.wisc.edu  Mon Aug 17 01:22:44 2009
From: psilord at merlin.cs.wisc.edu (Peter Keller)
Date: 17 Aug 2009 05:22:44 GMT
Subject: Xah's Edu Corner: The importance of syntax & notations.
References: 
	<4a882e2d$0$9897$80265adb@spool.cs.wisc.edu>
	<4f0af709-527a-47db-8a8a-b0b42c6fe34d@d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a88e924$0$9895$80265adb@spool.cs.wisc.edu>

In comp.lang.scheme toby  wrote:
> In my opinion Knuth believed in the value of literate programming for
> similar reasons: To try to exploit existing cognitive training. If
> your user base is familiar with English, or mathematical notation, or
> some other lexicography, try to exploit the pre-wired associations.
> Clearly this involves some intuition.

I've dabbled in the linguistics field a little bit and this thread made
me remember a certain topic delineated in this paper:

http://complex.upf.es/~ricard/SWPRS.pdf

This paper uses a concept that I would say needs more investigation:

The mapping of syntax onto metric spaces.

In fact, the paper literally makes a statement about how physically
close two words are when mapped onto a line of text and language networks
build graph topologies based upon the distance of words from each other
as they relate in syntactical form.

It seems the foundations for being able to construct a metric to "measure"
syntax is somewhat available. If you squint at the math in the above
paper, you can see how it can apply to multidimensional metric spaces
and syntax in different modalities (like the comparison between
reading written words and hearing spoken words).

For example, here the same semantic idea in a regex defined three ways:

english-like:

Match the letter "a" followed by one or more letter "p"s followed by the 
letter "l" then optionaly the letter "e".

scheme-like:

(regex (char-class \#a) (re+ (char-class \#p)) (char-class \#l)
       (re? (char-class \#e)))

perl-like:

/ap+le?/

The perl-like one would be the one chosen by most programmers, but the
various reasons why it is chosen will fluctuate. Can we do better? Can
we give a predictable measurement of some syntactic quantities that
we can optimize and get a predictable answer? 

Most people would say the perl-like form has the least amount of
"syntactic garbage" and is "short". How do we meaningfully define those
two terms? One might say "syntactic garbage" is syntax which doesn't
relate *at all* to the actual semantic objects, and "short" might mean
elimination of redundant syntax and/or transformation of explicit syntax
into implicit syntax already available in the metric space.

What do I mean by explicit versus implicit? 

In the scheme-like form, we explicitly denote the evaluation and class
of the various semantic objects of the regex before applying the "regex"
function across the evaluated arguments. Whitespace is used to separate
the morphemes of only the scheme syntax. The embedding metric space
of the syntax (meaning the line of text indexed by character position)
does nothing to help or hinder the expression of the semantic objects.

In the perl-like form, we implicitly denote the evaluation of the regex
by using a prototyping-based syntax, meaning the inherent qualities of
the embedding metric space are utilized. This specifically means that
evaluation happens left to right in reading order and semantic objects
evaluate directly to themselves and take as arguments semantic objects as
related directly in the embedding metric space. For example, the ? takes
as an argument the semantic object at location index[?]-1. Grouping
parenthsis act as a VERY simple tokenization system to group multiple
objects into one syntactical datum. Given the analysis, it seems the
perl-like regex generally auto-quote themselves as an advantageous use
of the embeded metric space in which they reside (aka the line of text).

The english-like form is the worst for explicit modeling because it
abstracts the semantic objects into a meta-space that is then referenced
by the syntax in the embedding space of the line itself.  In human
reasoning, that is what the quotes mean.

Out of the three syntax models, only the perl one has no redundant syntax
and takes up the smallest amount of the metric space into which it is
embedded--clearly seen by observation.

Consider if we have quantities "syntactic datums" versus "semantic objects",
then one might make an equation like this:

                 semantic objects
expressiveness = ----------------
                 syntactic datums

And of course, expressiveness rises as semantic objects begin to outweigh
syntactic objects. This seems a very reasonable, although simplistic,
model to me and would be a good start in my estimation. I say simplistic
because the semantic objects are not taken in relation to themselves
on the metric space the syntactic datums are embeded, I'll get to this
in a bit.

Now, what do we do with the above equation, well, we define what we can, and
then optimize the hell out of it. "semantic objects" for a computer
language is probably a fixed quantity, there are only so many operators and
grouping constructs, and usually very few, meaning one, function description
semantic objects. So, we are left with a free variable of "syntactic datums"
that we should minimize to be as small as possible.

If we don't take into consideration the topological mapping of
the semantic objects into the syntactic datum space, then the
number of semantic objects at least equals the number of syntactic
datums. Expressiveness is simply one in the best case, and this would
be pretty poor for sure. It could be worse--just add redundant syntactic
datums, now it is worse!

If we take into consideration the mapping of the semantic objects onto the
metric space, then maybe this becomes the new equation:

                 distance(index[obj1], index[obj2], ..., index[objn])
expressiveness = ----------------------------------------------------
                 syntactic datums

The distance() function in this new model is the centroid of the syntactic
datum which represent the semantic object. (Of course, there are other
models of expressiveness which would need to be explored based upon this
incremental idea I'm presenting.)

Larger distances between semantic objects, or larger syntactic constructs,
would mean less expressiveness.  This is interesting, because it can give
a rough number that sorts the three syntactic models I provided for the
regex and it would follow conventional wisdom. This is a decriptivist
model of syntax measurement.

Obviously, the fun is can we search an optimization tree to try find an
optimal set of syntactic datums to represent a known and finite set of
semantic objects taking into consideration the features of the metric
space into which the syntactic datums are embedded?

Maybe for another day.... 

Later,
-pete






From xahlee at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 01:32:07 2009
From: xahlee at gmail.com (Xah Lee)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 22:32:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Xah's Edu Corner: The importance of syntax & notations.
References: 
Message-ID: <25203724-bf60-484f-9ede-e61c45f15e33@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>

Personally, particular interesting info i've learned is that, for all
my trouble in the past decade expressing problems of traditional math
notation, i learned from his article this single-phrase summary:
?traditional math notation lacks a grammar?.

The article is somewhat disappointing though. I was expecting he'd go
into some details about the science of math notations, or, as he put
it aptly: ?linguistics of math notations?. However, he didn't touch
the subject, except saying that it haven't been studied.

 Xah

On Aug 15, 10:54?pm, Xah Lee  wrote:
> Xah's Edu Corner: The importance of syntax & notations.
>
> http://www.stephenwolfram.com/publications/recent/mathml/mathml_abstr...
>
> this article should teach the coding sophomorons and computer
> ?science? idiotic authors who harbor the notion that syntax is not
> important, picked up by all the elite i-reddit & twittering & ?hacker
> news am-hip dunces.
>
> Further readings:
>
> ? The TeX Pestilence
> ?http://xahlee.org/cmaci/notation/TeX_pestilence.html
>
> ? A Notation for Plane Geometry
> ?http://xahlee.org/cmaci/notation/plane_geometry_notation.html
>
> ? The Concepts and Confusions of Prefix, Infix, Postfix and Fully
> Nested Notations
> ?http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/notations.html
>
> ? The Problems of Traditional Math Notation
> ?http://xahlee.org/cmaci/notation/trad_math_notation.html
>
> ? Xah
> ?http://xahlee.org/
>
> ?



From psilord at merlin.cs.wisc.edu  Mon Aug 17 01:39:48 2009
From: psilord at merlin.cs.wisc.edu (Peter Keller)
Date: 17 Aug 2009 05:39:48 GMT
Subject: Xah's Edu Corner: The importance of syntax & notations.
References: 
	<4a882e2d$0$9897$80265adb@spool.cs.wisc.edu>
	<4f0af709-527a-47db-8a8a-b0b42c6fe34d@d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4a88e924$0$9895$80265adb@spool.cs.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <4a88ed24$0$9896$80265adb@spool.cs.wisc.edu>

In comp.lang.scheme Peter Keller  wrote:
> The distance() function in this new model is the centroid of the syntactic
> datum which represent the semantic object.

Oops.

I meant to say:

"The distance() function in this new model uses the centroid of each
individual syntactic datum (which represents the semantic object) as
the location for each semantic object."

Sorry.

-pete


From ranjithpmathew at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 01:59:02 2009
From: ranjithpmathew at gmail.com (L@D@n)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 22:59:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: GUI interface builder for python
Message-ID: 

Which is the best GUI interface builder with drag and drop
capabilities.
I am using Ubuntu GNU/Linux.
Please help me.
Thank you.


From jasevv at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 02:12:42 2009
From: jasevv at gmail.com (Jaseem)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 23:12:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: GUI interface builder for python
References: 
Message-ID: <1960c134-b4a0-4b96-bd58-1cf00dab9d72@d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 17, 10:59?am, "L at D@n"  wrote:
> Which is the best GUI interface builder with drag and drop
> capabilities.
> I am using Ubuntu GNU/Linux.
> Please help me.
> Thank you.

There are many GUI builders for python. (Have to deal with the
licensing issues.)
Qt has a GUI builder.
Glade (GTK+) for python is also good.
Boa constructor is also nice.


From kkylheku at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 02:42:01 2009
From: kkylheku at gmail.com (Kaz Kylheku)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 06:42:01 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Xah's Edu Corner: The importance of syntax & notations.
References: 
	<4a882e2d$0$9897$80265adb@spool.cs.wisc.edu>
	<4f0af709-527a-47db-8a8a-b0b42c6fe34d@d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4a88e924$0$9895$80265adb@spool.cs.wisc.edu>
	<4a88ed24$0$9896$80265adb@spool.cs.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <20090826140229.540@gmail.com>

["Followup-To:" header set to comp.lang.lisp.]
On 2009-08-17, Peter Keller  wrote:
> In comp.lang.scheme Peter Keller  wrote:
>> The distance() function in this new model is the centroid of the syntactic
>> datum which represent the semantic object.
>
> Oops.
>
> I meant to say:
>
> "The distance() function in this new model uses the centroid of each
> individual syntactic datum (which represents the semantic object) as
> the location for each semantic object."

Don't sweat it; either way it makes no sense. The rewrite does have a more
journal-publishable feel to it, though: the centroid of the whole aromatic
diffusion seems to hover more precisely above the site of the bovine waste from
which it apparently emanates.


From xahlee at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 02:50:27 2009
From: xahlee at gmail.com (Xah Lee)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 23:50:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<269572f2-5968-479b-a7e6-d3354a769250@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com> 
	<60bd3cab-1cab-4677-b640-8d126343615a@d9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 12, 12:15 pm, Raymond Hettinger  wrote:
> [Xah Lee]
>
> > i've wrote several articles about this issue, total time spend on this
> > is probably more than 2 months full-time work. See:
>
> > ? Python Documentation Problems
> >  http://xahlee.org/perl-python/python_doc_index.html
>
> I just read you post.   You did devote a substantial amount of time
> to the project.  Some of your criticisms are valid.  Wish you had
> posted patches, I think many of them would have been accepted.
>
> Since you wrote this a few years ago, many examples have
> been added to the docs and more are forthcoming.
>
> > I often receive thank you emails for 2 particular articles, which are
> > most frequently google searched as indicated by my weblog:
>
> > ? Python Doc Problem Example: gzip
> >  http://xahlee.org/perl-python/python_doc_gzip.html
>
> > ? Python Doc Problem Example: sort()
> >  http://xahlee.org/perl-python/python_doc_sort.html
>
> > ? Sorting in Python and Perl
> >  http://xahlee.org/perl-python/sort_list.html
>
> Some are the criticisms are valid; others seem off-base.
>
> Here are a few thoughts on list.sort() for those who are interested:
>
> * The key= and reversed= parameters are not intended for special
> cases, leaving cmp= for the general case.  They were intended to
> be full replacements.  In Python3.x, the cmp function is gone.
>
> * The interaction of the key= and cmp= functions can be made to
> interact (the key function is first applied to every element and
> the cmp function then gets applied to the results of the key
> function).  This isn't a normal or intended use case, so the docs
> don't delve into the subject.
>
> * The reversed parameter does more than list.sort() followed by
> list.reverse().  It also preserves stability in the event of equal
> keys:
>
>    >>> sorted([(1,2), (1,3)], key=itemgetter(0), reverse=True)
>    [(1,2), (1,3)]
>
> So it was not correct to say that the following are equivalent:
>
>     li.sort(lambda x, y: cmp(x[1],y[1]), reverse=True)
>     li.sort(lambda x, y: cmp(y[1],x[1]))
>
> * We should link the sorted() and list.sort() docs to the
> sorting how-to (with a fuller discussion on the art of sorting
> including a discussion of operator.itemgetter() and
> operator.attrgetter() which were designed to work with the key=
> parameter.

> > Here are a few thoughts on list.sort() for those who are interested:
>
> After one more reading of Xah Lee's posts on the documentation for
> sort,
> here are couple more thoughts:
>
> * The reason that list.sort() allows None for the cmp parameter is not
> so that you can write list.sort(None).  It was put there to make it
> easier for people writing function definitions where the cmp function
> is a possible argument:
>
>    def sort_and_chop(seq, maxlen, cmp=None):
>        s = seq[:]
>        s.sort(cmp)           # needs to accept None as a possible
> argument
>        return s[:maxlen]
>
> * The reason for implementing the key= parameter had nothing to do
> with limitations of Python's compiler.  Instead, it was inspired by
> the
> decorate-sort-undecorate pattern.

Hi Raymond,

thanks for the many points. They are informative, some i disagree, but
it's getting into detail. I don't know python 3.0, will have to look
into its sort in the future.

This part i don't particular agree:

> * The reason for implementing the key= parameter had nothing to do
> with limitations of Python's compiler.  Instead, it was inspired by
> the
> decorate-sort-undecorate pattern.

The decorate-sort-undecorate pattern is a compiler limitation, for
most of today's langs. I'm not sure, but i think some of the fancy
functional langs automatically detect such and optimize it away, to
various degrees.

... my criticism is usually written in a style catered to irritate a
particular class of coder i call tech geekers (they think of themselfs
with their idiotic term ?hackers?). So, parts are exaggerated. It'd be
more clear to say, that the reason for python's ?key?, and as a
?solution? or need of the decorate-sort-undecorate issue, can be
attributed to the current state of the art of popular imperative
language's compilers (induced by such lang's semantics).

again, i haven't studied python 3.0 to see what it has changed with
sort, and thanks for the informative post. I find it intriguing that
it doesn't have ?cmp? anymore as you say.... maybe when i actually
study it and i'll come away with rage and rants. LOL.

  Xah
? http://xahlee.org/

?


From contact at xavierho.com  Mon Aug 17 03:09:14 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:09:14 +1000
Subject: What happened to __cmp__() in Python 3.x?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <2d56febf0908150509k1b6a3b98j7e76ae6596108280@mail.gmail.com>
	<50697b2c0908160104k7d74ace9jda8f4b927402942@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<2d56febf0908160458k3b5197d8tf1a69e3083ab3146@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908170009i7ce4f53tb89ffde60d09a2bc@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 10:33 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:

>
> I wasn't discussing __cmp__, I was referring to the quote by Chris Rebert
> from the Python docs regarding the rich comparison methods, a discrepancy
> between the documentation and the implementation as noted in the link that I
> gave, and an indication that the issue raised on this discrepancy is still
> open.  As Terry Reedy has mentioned __lt__ elsewhere, you should be aware of
> the discrepancy, otherwise you could go charging off down the wrong track.
>  FWIW it was Terry who raised the issue 4395, I'm sure that he could explain
> the ramifications of it all far better than I ever could, so I'll sign out.


Oh, I see. Thanks for informing then. =)

Cheers,
Xav
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From sleepy at cabbage.co.uk  Mon Aug 17 03:23:55 2009
From: sleepy at cabbage.co.uk (Sleepy Cabbage)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 07:23:55 GMT
Subject: get the pause status from amarok 2.1
References: 
	<7eku4bF2gtku3U2@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<3avhm.248709$bA.165466@newsfe16.ams2>
Message-ID: 

On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 09:25:19 +0000, Sleepy Cabbage wrote:

> On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 12:55:07 +0200, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> 
>> Sleepy Cabbage schrieb:
>>> As the title says, I'm trying to find a way to get the pause status
>>> from amarok 2.1.
>>> 
>>> I'm running kubuntu 9.04 with kde 4.2.2, python 2.6.2.
>>> 
>>> Thanks in advance.
>> 
>> Not at my linux-system right now, but dcop and the respective
>> python-module should help.
>> 
>> Diez
> 
> Thanks for you reply Diez. i'm sure that kde4.2 now uses qdbus instead
> of dcop and not sure whether amarok has the qdbus org.kde.amarok /Player
> GetStatus as it returns the following: qdbus: I don't know how to
> display an argument of type '(iiii)'

'dbus --literal org.kde.amarok /Player 
org.freedesktop.MediaPlayer.GetStatus'


From sleepy at cabbage.co.uk  Mon Aug 17 03:25:22 2009
From: sleepy at cabbage.co.uk (Sleepy Cabbage)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 07:25:22 GMT
Subject: get the pause status from amarok 2.1
References: 
	<7eku4bF2gtku3U2@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<3avhm.248709$bA.165466@newsfe16.ams2>
	
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 07:23:55 +0000, Sleepy Cabbage wrote:

> On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 09:25:19 +0000, Sleepy Cabbage wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 12:55:07 +0200, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
>> 
>>> Sleepy Cabbage schrieb:
>>>> As the title says, I'm trying to find a way to get the pause status
>>>> from amarok 2.1.
>>>> 
>>>> I'm running kubuntu 9.04 with kde 4.2.2, python 2.6.2.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks in advance.
>>> 
>>> Not at my linux-system right now, but dcop and the respective
>>> python-module should help.
>>> 
>>> Diez
>> 
>> Thanks for you reply Diez. i'm sure that kde4.2 now uses qdbus instead
>> of dcop and not sure whether amarok has the qdbus org.kde.amarok
>> /Player GetStatus as it returns the following: qdbus: I don't know how
>> to display an argument of type '(iiii)'
> 
> 'dbus --literal org.kde.amarok /Player
> org.freedesktop.MediaPlayer.GetStatus'

Ref my last post: This works!!


From xahlee at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 03:25:24 2009
From: xahlee at gmail.com (Xah Lee)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 00:25:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: python doc available in emacs info format?
References: 
Message-ID: <4aba0b60-0aff-419a-877a-cac1e0e448ee@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

info format for Xah Lee writes:
> in programing elisp in emacs, i can press ?Ctrl+h f? to lookup
> the doc for the function under cursor.   is there such facility
> when coding in perl, python, php?


 On Dec 11 2008, 6:56 am, Matthias  wrote:
> Yes, try C-h S (or similarly  S):

>      (info-lookup-symbol SYMBOL &optional MODE)  Display the
> definition of SYMBOL, as found in the relevant manual. When this
> command is called interactively, it reads SYMBOL from the
> minibuffer.

> Note that `the relevant manual' means an info file. With recent
> emacsen on an Ubuntu distro, python arrives with info files and
> everything is well configured. It also works with bash, latex, perl,
> scheme, elisp, awk, texinfo, makefile, libc, or any info file with an
> index.

I noticed that Matthias actually mentioned that info docs is available
and bundled out of the box on Ubuntu linux for many popular langs, as
of 2008-12.

Is that true? Where can i download these info files? As far as i know,
a little google search or official doc sites usually don't have a
download for info format.

I'm interested in getting current version doc for perl, python, php,
and ruby.

Thanks.

  Xah
? http://xahlee.org/

?


From sjoerd at acm.org  Mon Aug 17 04:29:17 2009
From: sjoerd at acm.org (Sjoerd Mullender)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 10:29:17 +0200
Subject: zip codes
In-Reply-To: 
References: <35833d36-2fdc-4ed8-8142-604af3c88afe@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4A8914DD.4000307@acm.org>

Martin P. Hellwig wrote:
> Shailen wrote:
>> Is there any Python module that helps with US and foreign zip-code
>> lookups? I'm thinking of something that provides basic mappings of zip
>> to cities, city to zips, etc. Since this kind of information is so
>> often used for basic user-registration, I'm assuming functionality of
>> this sort must be available for Python. Any suggestions will be much
>> appreciated.
>>
> There might be an associated can of worms here, for example in the
> Netherlands zip codes are actually copyrighted and require a license if
> you want to do something with them, on the other hand you get a nice SQL
> formatted db to use it. I don't know how this works in other countries
> but I imagine that it is likely to be generally the same.
> 

Also in The Netherlands, ZIP codes are much more fine-grained than in
some other countries: ZIP code plus house number together are sufficient
to uniquely identify an address.  I.e. you don't need the street name.
E.g., my work address has ZIP code 1098 XG and house number 123, so
together they indicate that I work at Science Park 123, Amsterdam.

In other words, a simple city <-> ZIP mapping is not sufficient.

-- 
Sjoerd Mullender

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From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Mon Aug 17 05:36:18 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:36:18 +0200
Subject: Is it possible to use python to get True Full Duplex on a Serial
	port?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <200908171136.18188.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Sunday 16 August 2009 15:55:31 Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2009-08-15, Hendrik van Rooyen  wrote:

> > I am still confused about pyserial and serial - I found serial
> > in my distribution library, (on the SuSe machine, not on the
> > 2.5 in Slackware) but I had to download pyserial.
>
> That's very interesting.  Is the pre-existing "serial" a
> version of pyserial that the packager had pre-installed or is
> it something else?  I didn't know any distributions shipped

I am not too sure now - when I looked in the packages directory over the 
weekend it was there.  But I am really not sure how it got there - I cannot 
recall downloading it myself, but that means nothing as I have been using 
this machine for a while now, so it is possible that I did it some time ago 
and forgotten about it, without ever using it.   Possible, but unlikely. I 
would like to think that if I downloaded it, I would have tried it, and then 
I would have remembered.

Sorry to be so vague.

Does this help?

hvr at Linuxbox:~> python
Python 2.5.1 (r251:54863, Dec  6 2008, 10:49:39)
[GCC 4.2.1 (SUSE Linux)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import serial
>>> dir(serial)
['EIGHTBITS', 'FCNTL', 'FIVEBITS', 'FileLike', 'PARITY_EVEN', 'PARITY_NAMES',
 'PARITY_NONE', 'PARITY_ODD', 'SEVENBITS', 'SIXBITS', 'STOPBITS_ONE', 
'STOPBITS_TWO', 'Serial', 'SerialBase', 'SerialException', 'SerialTimeoutException',
 'TERMIOS', 'TIOCINQ', 'TIOCMBIC', 'TIOCMBIS', 'TIOCMGET', 'TIOCMSET', 'TIOCM_CAR', 
'TIOCM_CD', 'TIOCM_CTS', 'TIOCM_DSR', 'TIOCM_DTR', 'TIOCM_DTR_str', 'TIOCM_RI', 
'TIOCM_RNG', 'TIOCM_RTS', 'TIOCM_RTS_str', 'TIOCM_zero_str', 'VERSION', 'XOFF', 'XON',
 '__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__', '__path__', 'device', 'errno', 'fcntl', 'os', 'plat', 
'portNotOpenError', 'select', 'serialposix', 'serialutil', 'string', 'struct', 'sys', 'termios', 'writeTimeoutError']
>>> serial.VERSION
'1.27'

- Hendrik



From fas at cs.stir.ac.uk  Mon Aug 17 05:38:15 2009
From: fas at cs.stir.ac.uk (Farhan Sheikh)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 10:38:15 +0100
Subject: Uninstalling mac python2.5 to install python2.6
Message-ID: <83423F73-83DA-436B-A3BA-E83CD61CD28D@cs.stir.ac.uk>


Dear all,

i originally had python2.5 on my mac at the univeristy and had to get  
2.6 to get NEST and pyNN to work together. however now as those are  
now installed, i had to install numpy.

As i installed numpy, it only installed its directories into the  
python2.5 folders and as i am new to to mac terminals i don't know how  
to change its directories to be installed into python2.6. my question  
is, do i have to uninstall python 2.5 so that only python2.6 is on the  
machine or is there a way to change the path so it saves into python2.5?

Thanking You

Farhan

-- 
Academic Excellence at the Heart of Scotland.
The University of Stirling is a charity registered in Scotland, 
 number SC 011159.



From xahlee at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 05:42:42 2009
From: xahlee at gmail.com (Xah Lee)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 02:42:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Xah's Edu Corner: The importance of syntax & notations.
References: 
	<25203724-bf60-484f-9ede-e61c45f15e33@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

2009-08-17

On Aug 16, 10:32 pm, Xah Lee  wrote:
> Personally, particular interesting info i've learned is that, for all
> my trouble in the past decade expressing problems of traditional math
> notation, i learned from his article this single-phrase summary:
> ?traditional math notation lacks a grammar?.

> The article is somewhat disappointing though. I was expecting he'd go
> into some details about the science of math notations, or, as he put
> it aptly: ?linguistics of math notations?. However, he didn't touch
> the subject, except saying that it haven't been studied.

upon a more detailed reading of Stephen's article, i discovered some
errors.

On this page:
http://www.stephenwolfram.com/publications/recent/mathml/mathml2.html

he mentions the Plimpton 322 tablet. It is widely taught in math
history books, that this table is pythagorean triples.

On reading his article, i wanted to refresh my understanding of the
subject, so i looked up Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plimpton_322

and behold!

apparantly, in recent academic publications, it is suggested that this
is not pythagorean triples, but rather: ?a list of regular reciprocal
pairs?.

  Xah
? http://xahlee.org/

?

On Aug 15, 10:54 pm, Xah Lee  wrote:
> Xah's Edu Corner: The importance of syntax & notations.

>http://www.stephenwolfram.com/publications/recent/mathml/mathml_abstr...

> this article should teach the coding sophomorons and computer
> ?science? idiotic authors who harbor the notion that syntax is not
> important, picked up by all the elite i-reddit & twittering &  hacker
> news am-hip dunces.

> Further readings:

> ? The TeX Pestilence
>  http://xahlee.org/cmaci/notation/TeX_pestilence.html

> ? A Notation for Plane Geometry
>  http://xahlee.org/cmaci/notation/plane_geometry_notation.html

> ? The Concepts and Confusions of Prefix, Infix, Postfix and Fully
> Nested Notations
>  http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/notations.html

> ? The Problems of Traditional Math Notation
>  http://xahlee.org/cmaci/notation/trad_math_notation.html


From pierre.gaillard at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 05:50:03 2009
From: pierre.gaillard at gmail.com (Pierre)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 02:50:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: sub-list extraction, logical indexation
Message-ID: 

Hello Everyone,

I would like to know if it is possible to extract a sub-list from a
list ?

typically if :

L =[[1, 2, 3],[4, 5, 6],[3] ]

How to extract easily the elements 0 and 2 of L in order to get :

L2 =[[1, 2, 3],[3] ]

Moreover, I would like to know if it is possible to use logical
indexation such that :

index = [ True, False, True]
L2 = L

or usual indexation, something like
index=[0, 2]
L2 = L

I tried, but failed...
Thanks for your help

Pierre


From indermeet.gandhi at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 05:55:37 2009
From: indermeet.gandhi at gmail.com (inder)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 02:55:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: XML parsing with python
Message-ID: 

Hi All,

I am new to xml . I need to parse the xml file . After reading and
browsing on the web , I could get much help .

I guess SAX would be better suited for my requirement .

Could some juct provide me a sample python code so that I can execute
it and see how the parsing actually happens .

Lets say my xml file -


  GLADE

xwPython --> wxFormBuilder

PyQt --> QtDesigner





From exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  Mon Aug 17 07:43:15 2009
From: exarkun at twistedmatrix.com (exarkun at twistedmatrix.com)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:43:15 -0000
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
In-Reply-To: <900c0d5e-a41a-4820-9844-816afa1a33c9@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<4434e799-d907-49ca-93ee-a4be3276f9c2@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<900c0d5e-a41a-4820-9844-816afa1a33c9@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20090817114315.8740.284099123.divmod.xquotient.27@localhost.localdomain>

On 01:53 am, pavlovevidence at gmail.com wrote:
>On Aug 16, 6:28?pm, exar... at twistedmatrix.com wrote:
>>On 01:23 am, benjamin.kap... at case.edu wrote:
>>
>> >On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 6:35 PM, sturlamolden 
>> >wrote:
>>
>> >>A compiler could easily recognise a statement like
>>
>> >>? for i in range(n):
>>
>> >>as a simple integer loop. In fact, Cython is able to do this.
>>
>> >but special cases aren't special enough to break the rules.
>>
>>Although I think PyPy also recognizes this case and makes it as
>>efficient as using xrange, and does so without breaking any rules.
>
>PyPy uses a JIT compiler (which is still slower than CPython,
>suggesting that perhaps they should have spent more time optimizing
>the general case than optimizing for an easily avoided special case).

It's true that PyPy has a JIT compiler (which is still slower than 
CPython).  However, this isn't where the range speedup comes from.  The 
range optimization is handled specifically in the implementation of 
range (or possibly of list, or a combination of the two, I can't 
remember exactly).  It's effective even when the JIT compiler is 
disabled.
>
>>There *are* _some_ legitimate complaints to be made about the CPython
>>runtime. :)
>
>This isn't one of them.
>
>xrange has been part of Python for 10 years.
>
>If there are any complaints to be made about this situation it's that
>there are any 2.x learning materials anythere that continue to use
>range() and not xrange() in this context.

Jean-Paul


From exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  Mon Aug 17 07:44:35 2009
From: exarkun at twistedmatrix.com (exarkun at twistedmatrix.com)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:44:35 -0000
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
In-Reply-To: <7xtz079ptq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: 
	<02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<4434e799-d907-49ca-93ee-a4be3276f9c2@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<7xtz079ptq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <20090817114435.8740.1376128107.divmod.xquotient.30@localhost.localdomain>

On 01:44 am, http wrote:
>exarkun at twistedmatrix.com writes:
>>Although I think PyPy also recognizes this case and makes it as
>>efficient as using xrange, and does so without breaking any rules.
>
>How can pypy possibly know that the user hasn't assigned some other
>value to "range"?

It doesn't really need to.  The optimization isn't applied when the 
compiler sees the name "range" being called.  It's applied after the 
object the default builtin name "range" is bound to is called.

Jean-Paul


From vlastimil.brom at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 07:58:40 2009
From: vlastimil.brom at gmail.com (Vlastimil Brom)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 13:58:40 +0200
Subject: sub-list extraction, logical indexation
In-Reply-To: <4A893263.2000706@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: 
	<7esoqbF2gnhrcU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<4A893263.2000706@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <9fdb569a0908170458v167d57obf8517704f6e8dc@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/17 MRAB :
> Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
>>
>> Pierre wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Everyone,
>>>
>>> I would like to know if it is possible to extract a sub-list from a
>>> list ?
>>>
>>> typically if :
>>>
>>> L =[[1, 2, 3],[4, 5, 6],[3] ]
>>>
>>> How to extract easily the elements 0 and 2 of L in order to get :
>>>
>>> L2 =[[1, 2, 3],[3] ]
>>>
>>> Moreover, I would like to know if it is possible to use logical
>>> indexation such that :
>>>
>>> index = [ True, False, True]
>>> L2 = L
>>>
>>> or usual indexation, something like
>>> index=[0, 2]
>>> L2 = L
>>>
>>> I tried, but failed...
>>> Thanks for your help
>>
>>
>> index = [ True, False, True]
>> L2 = [v for i, v in enumerate(L) if index[i]]
>>
> Or:
>
> L =[[1, 2, 3],[4, 5, 6],[3] ]
> index = [ True, False, True]
>
> from itertools import izip
> L2 = [v for i, v in izip(index, L) if i]
>
Or in python 3.1

>>> import itertools
>>> list(itertools.compress(data=[[1, 2, 3], [4, 5, 6], [3]], selectors=[True, False, True]))
[[1, 2, 3], [3]]

vbr


From dmhouse at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 08:23:47 2009
From: dmhouse at gmail.com (David House)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 13:23:47 +0100
Subject: ignored test cases in unittest
In-Reply-To: <56527679-4cec-49a1-9b46-c38de8f981c8@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<873a7so66v.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
	<56527679-4cec-49a1-9b46-c38de8f981c8@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

2009/8/16 Terry :
> Thanks for the solutions. I think the decorator idea is what I'm look
> for:-)

Note that the unittest module now supports the `skip' and
`expectedFailure' decorators, which seem to describe some of the
solutions here.

See http://docs.python.org/3.1/library/unittest.html#skipping-tests-and-expected-failures

-- 
-David


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Mon Aug 17 08:33:22 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:33:22 +0200
Subject: callable virtual method
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4A85798B.6020501@sequans.com>	<4A8587A0.6040008@mrabarnett.plus.com>		<02959b54$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <4a894e11$0$22902$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Jean-Michel Pichavant a ?crit :
(snip)

> Sometimes the base is doing cool stuff but incomplete stuff which 
> requires knowledge only hold by the sub class. In my case the interface 
> is a high level interface for a software that can run on multiple 
> hardware platforms. Only the sub class has knowledge on how to operate 
> the hardware, but no matter the hardware it still produces the same effect.
> 
> Let's say I have 50 different hardwares, I'll have 50 sub classes of 
> Interface with the 'start' method to define. It wouldn't be appropriate 
> (OO programming)to write 50 times '_log.debug('Starting %s' % self)' in 
> each child start method when the simple task of logging the call can be 
> nicely handled by the base class.

Which is exactly one of the use cases for the Template Method pattern in 
traditional OO design.

For the record, Python can offer other solutions to this kind of problem 
- like a combination of decorators and metaclasses.

> In the meantime, I must make sure  the user, who is not a python guru in 
> this case, has implemented the start method for his hardware,

whether he has to implement the 'start' or '_start' method doesn't make 
any difference here.



From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Mon Aug 17 08:35:19 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:35:19 +0200
Subject: callable virtual method
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4A85798B.6020501@sequans.com>	<4A8587A0.6040008@mrabarnett.plus.com>		<02959b54$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>		
	
Message-ID: <4a894e85$0$22902$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Jean-Michel Pichavant a ?crit :
> Scott David Daniels wrote:
(snip)
>> But there _is_ one moment when you can check those things, then avoid
>> checking thereafter: object creation.  So you can complicate your
>> __init__ (or __new__) with those checks that make sure you instantiate
>> only fully defined subclasses:

That's something I'd rather do in a custom metaclass. But YMMV, of course...



From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Mon Aug 17 08:37:29 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 05:37:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
References:  
	<02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	 
	
	<4434e799-d907-49ca-93ee-a4be3276f9c2@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<3c0abe16-f05a-4c5f-9773-f813bc424f14@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <60535b0d-dac1-4f4b-a464-eb05a2b3c0a3@h31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On 16 Aug, 19:12, Carl Banks  wrote:

> If you don't care about the dynamic stuff why don't you just use
> Cython? ?Or quit complaining and just use xrange.

I think you are the only one complaining here.





From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Aug 17 09:01:19 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:01:19 +0100
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
In-Reply-To: <20090817114036.8740.394539460.divmod.xquotient.22@localhost.localdomain>
References: 	<02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>			<4434e799-d907-49ca-93ee-a4be3276f9c2@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>	<3c0abe16-f05a-4c5f-9773-f813bc424f14@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<20090817114036.8740.394539460.divmod.xquotient.22@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <4A89549F.6050004@mrabarnett.plus.com>

exarkun at twistedmatrix.com wrote:
> On 02:12 am, pavlovevidence at gmail.com wrote:
>> On Aug 16, 3:35?pm, sturlamolden  wrote:
>>> On 16 Aug, 14:57, Dennis Lee Bieber  wrote:
>>>
>>> > ? ? ? ? Well, the alternative would be to have two keywords for 
>>> looping: one
>>> > for your "simple" incrementing integer loop, and another for a loop 
>>> that
>>> > operates over the elements of some collection type.
>>>
>>> A compiler could easily recognise a statement like
>>>
>>> ? ?for i in range(n):
>>>
>>> as a simple integer loop.
>>
>> It would be a simple to do if you were writing it for a different
>> langauge was a lot less dynamic than Python is.  It'd be quite a
>> complex hack to add it to CPython's compiler while maintaing the
>> current highly dynamic runtime semantics and backwards compatibility,
>> which is a design constraint of Python whether you like it or not.
> 
> In your other message, you said this wasn't a legitimate CPython 
> complaint.  Here, you say that it would be a "complex hack" to implement 
> this in CPython.  "complex hack" has negative connotations in my mind. 
> This seems contradictory to me.
>>
>> And all this complaining about an issue that can be worked around by
>> xrange instead of range.  Sheesh.
> 
> Sure.  The specific issue of range vs xrange is quite a small one. There 
> is a slightly larger one regarding the flexibility (or relative lack 
> thereof) of the CPython runtime, though.
> 
A possible solution would be to make 'range' return an instance of, say,
'RangeList', a subclass of list which would behave like 'list'
externally but create the list of values internally only when needed.


From steven.oldner at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 09:03:52 2009
From: steven.oldner at gmail.com (steven.oldner)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 06:03:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: zip codes
References: <35833d36-2fdc-4ed8-8142-604af3c88afe@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	 <4A8914DD.4000307@acm.org> 
	
Message-ID: <15819238-2a87-47e4-8d5f-1f1714d2dd8c@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 17, 5:21?am, MRAB  wrote:
> Sjoerd Mullender wrote:
> > Martin P. Hellwig wrote:
> >> Shailen wrote:
> >>> Is there any Python module that helps with US and foreign zip-code
> >>> lookups? I'm thinking of something that provides basic mappings of zip
> >>> to cities, city to zips, etc. Since this kind of information is so
> >>> often used for basic user-registration, I'm assuming functionality of
> >>> this sort must be available for Python. Any suggestions will be much
> >>> appreciated.
>
> >> There might be an associated can of worms here, for example in the
> >> Netherlands zip codes are actually copyrighted and require a license if
> >> you want to do something with them, on the other hand you get a nice SQL
> >> formatted db to use it. I don't know how this works in other countries
> >> but I imagine that it is likely to be generally the same.
>
> > Also in The Netherlands, ZIP codes are much more fine-grained than in
> > some other countries: ZIP code plus house number together are sufficient
> > to uniquely identify an address. ?I.e. you don't need the street name.
> > E.g., my work address has ZIP code 1098 XG and house number 123, so
> > together they indicate that I work at Science Park 123, Amsterdam.
>
> > In other words, a simple city <-> ZIP mapping is not sufficient.
>
> The same comment applies to UK postcodes, which are also alphanumeric.
> My home postcode, for example, is shared with only 3 other houses, IIRC.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Google for Zip codes.  There are some free databases of codes, but
they are dated.  USPS and 3 party vendors sell zip code databases and
lists.  The USPS APIs are a joke.  They were going to charge me for
using them.

I ended up using a 2 year old database of ZIP codes for my needs.

Hope this helps!



From luke.leighton at googlemail.com  Mon Aug 17 09:03:57 2009
From: luke.leighton at googlemail.com (lkcl)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 06:03:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: platform-specific overrides of functions and class methods 
	(expanding on imputils demo code)
References: 
Message-ID: <77715735-2668-43e7-95da-c91d175b35c9@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

thought that people might like to know: i found also that imputil, the
standard python module, was lacking the necessary complexity in being
a substitute for the standard __import__ function.

the additions required were very simple:

    # note the addition of level=-1 which is ignored

    def _import_hook(self, fqname, globals=None, locals=None,
fromlist=None,
                           level=-1):

        .....

        # Grrr, some people "import os.path" or do "from os.path
import ..."
        if len(parts) == 2 and hasattr(top_module, parts[1]):
            if fromlist:
                return getattr(top_module, parts[1])
            else:
                return top_module

        # assume that the module has already been imported,
        # walk from top_module to find it.
        mod = top_module

        for k in parts[1:]:
            if not hasattr(mod, k):
                print "no mod", mod, k, parts
                mod = None
                break
            mod = getattr(mod, k)

        if mod:
            return mod

        # If the importer does not exist, then we have to bail. A
missing
        # importer means that something else imported the module, and
we have
        # no knowledge of how to get sub-modules out of the thing.
        raise ImportError, 'No module named ' + fqname

it's the module-walking that's been added: going from the "top"
module, looking for an attribute of the split-parts.  this code makes
the assumption that if top module already exists, and it has a sub-
module, and that has a sub-sub-module, and that has a sub-sub-sub-
module etc. then it is perfectly reasonable to return that pre-
existing, already-imported [sub-]+ module as the return result.

the reason why this had to be added is because comtypes.gen.{some
module} auto-generator relies on it, and calls __import__ *direct*.

if somebody would like to add this to the python bugtracker, as a
contribution, that would be great.  alternatively, you might like to
have a word with the python developers to get them to remove the
censorship on my contributions.

l.


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Aug 17 09:20:31 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 15:20:31 +0200
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
In-Reply-To: <3c0abe16-f05a-4c5f-9773-f813bc424f14@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<4434e799-d907-49ca-93ee-a4be3276f9c2@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<3c0abe16-f05a-4c5f-9773-f813bc424f14@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a895920$0$32674$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>

Carl Banks wrote:
> On Aug 16, 3:35 pm, sturlamolden  wrote:
>> On 16 Aug, 14:57, Dennis Lee Bieber  wrote:
>>
>>>         Well, the alternative would be to have two keywords for looping: one
>>> for your "simple" incrementing integer loop, and another for a loop that
>>> operates over the elements of some collection type.
>> A compiler could easily recognise a statement like
>>
>>    for i in range(n):
>>
>> as a simple integer loop.
>> 
>> In fact, Cython is able to do this.
> 
> Cython can do this easily because it is a different language that is a
> lot less dynamic than Python.

Actually, Cython is able to do this because it knows the global scope of a
module. The only thing that this optimisation makes impossible when you
compile your module using Cython is to inject builtins into the module
namespace *after* the compilation, either by assigning module attributes or
by importing the module into a custom namespace.

Given that both use cases are extremely rare, it was decided that
optimisations like this are more important than the ability to redefine the
most common builtins (such as 'range' or 'enumerate'). So, in a way, Cython
really makes them "builtins".

Stefan


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Mon Aug 17 09:23:14 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 17 Aug 2009 13:23:14 GMT
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
References: 
	<02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<4434e799-d907-49ca-93ee-a4be3276f9c2@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0012dd1f$0$2904$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 15:35:26 -0700, sturlamolden wrote:

> On 16 Aug, 14:57, Dennis Lee Bieber  wrote:
> 
>> ? ? ? ? Well, the alternative would be to have two keywords for
>> ? ? ? ? looping: one
>> for your "simple" incrementing integer loop, and another for a loop
>> that operates over the elements of some collection type.
> 
> A compiler could easily recognise a statement like
> 
>    for i in range(n):
> 
> as a simple integer loop. 

"Easily" huh? Would you like to put a small wager on that?

Here is an unedited copy-and-paste of the last few lines of an 
interactive Python session:

>>> for i in range(5):
...     print i
...
0
1
2
Surprise!
4
>>> __builtins__.range is range
True


Can you determine how I did this? How would the compiler avoid this? If 
you can find a method for the compiler to avoid surprises like this, why 
do you think it would be valuable to add all that extra complexity to the 
language? (As opposed to an external tool like Cython.)



-- 
Steven


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Aug 17 09:24:17 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 15:24:17 +0200
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<4434e799-d907-49ca-93ee-a4be3276f9c2@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4a895a01$0$32674$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>

John Machin wrote:
> On Aug 17, 8:35 am, sturlamolden  wrote:
> 
>> A compiler could easily recognise a statement like
>>    for i in range(n):
>> as a simple integer loop. In fact, Cython is able to do this.
> 
> Extremely easy, once users relinquish the right to replace built-in
> "range" with their own concoctions ...

Cython allows you to do that. You just have to do it inside the module. If
Cython determines that "range" refers the global builtin name, it will
enable the loop optimisation. If you assign anything to that global name
inside your module (even the range function itself), this will disable the
optimisation.

Stefan


From terry.yinzhe at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 09:38:48 2009
From: terry.yinzhe at gmail.com (Terry Yin)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 21:38:48 +0800
Subject: ignored test cases in unittest
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<873a7so66v.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
	<56527679-4cec-49a1-9b46-c38de8f981c8@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 17, 8:23 pm, David House  wrote: > > Note that the
unittest module now supports the `skip' and > `expectedFailure' decorators,
which seem to describe some of the > solutions here. > > Seehttp://
docs.python.org/3.1/library/unittest.html#skipping-tests-and-e... > > -- >
-David Yes, indeed! I'm using 2.6 now. It seemed I need to copy untitest.py
from 3.1. But the docs.python.org is hell slow from where I am (China), not
even working except the title:-( br, Terry

On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 8:23 PM, David House  wrote:

> 2009/8/16 Terry :
> > Thanks for the solutions. I think the decorator idea is what I'm look
> > for:-)
>
> Note that the unittest module now supports the `skip' and
> `expectedFailure' decorators, which seem to describe some of the
> solutions here.
>
> See
> http://docs.python.org/3.1/library/unittest.html#skipping-tests-and-expected-failures
>
> --
> -David
>



-- 
-------------------------
Blog: http://terry-yinzhe.spaces.live.com/
twitter: http://twitter.com/terryyin
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From drobinow at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 10:04:14 2009
From: drobinow at gmail.com (David Robinow)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 10:04:14 -0400
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
In-Reply-To: 
References: <24980842.post@talk.nabble.com> <4A8612CE.7080700@stoneleaf.us>
	<200908160830.55031.emmanuel.surleau@gmail.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <4eb0089f0908170704y664a3031ufed176ada36cc2c@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 11:10 PM, Nobody wrote:
> Java also has iterators; it's more a case of people coming from C and BASIC.
>
> Although, some of those may have come *through* Java without abandoning
> old habits. You see the same thing with people coming from BASIC to C and
> writing:
>
> ? ? ? ?#define NUM_DATES 50
> ? ? ? ?int day[NUM_DATES], month[NUM_DATES], year[NUM_DATES];
>
> rather than defining a "struct".
>
> Sometimes referred to as "I know ten languages and can write in BASIC in
> all of them".

Ha, ha. I learned that pattern in Fortran. I confess to having written
code like that in C. I think I've gotten over it.


From invalid at invalid  Mon Aug 17 10:04:42 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 09:04:42 -0500
Subject: zip codes
References: <35833d36-2fdc-4ed8-8142-604af3c88afe@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-17, Sjoerd Mullender  wrote:

> Also in The Netherlands, ZIP codes are much more fine-grained than in
> some other countries: ZIP code plus house number together are sufficient
> to uniquely identify an address.  I.e. you don't need the street name.
> E.g., my work address has ZIP code 1098 XG and house number 123, so
> together they indicate that I work at Science Park 123, Amsterdam.
>
> In other words, a simple city <-> ZIP mapping is not sufficient.

Same here in the US.  A 5-digit zip code narrows it down to a
neghborhood within a city, and a full 9-digit zip code is
shared with perhaps 5-10 houses -- generally I believe it
identifies one side of a one-block section of a street in a
single-family-home residential area.  In apartment or office
buildings a 9-digit zip code generally identifies a specific
floor in a specific building.  Most companies of any size have
their own zip code (or codes).  My company only has ~40
employees, and we have our own unique zip code.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Here I am at the flea
                                  at               market but nobody is buying
                               visi.com            my urine sample bottles ...


From aaron.watters at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 10:05:21 2009
From: aaron.watters at gmail.com (Aaron Watters)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 07:05:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: off topic: google groups sucks?
Message-ID: <087f64b6-0cc7-4a75-a2ba-9ca74d31f1fd@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

Just a note.  It seems that google groups is increasing the
sucks coefficient.

I search for things using "group search" for comp.lang.python
and I get no results even though I know there are results from
a few months or weeks ago.

What is the best alternative for this kind of trawling?  gmane?

With all the smart people working at google how can they
**** up like this?

Inquiring minds want to know.

   -- Aaron Watters

===
Sisyphus got ripped.


From jkn_gg at nicorp.f9.co.uk  Mon Aug 17 10:46:14 2009
From: jkn_gg at nicorp.f9.co.uk (jkn)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 07:46:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: off topic: google groups sucks?
References: <087f64b6-0cc7-4a75-a2ba-9ca74d31f1fd@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 17, 3:05?pm, Aaron Watters  wrote:
> Just a note. ?It seems that google groups is increasing the
> sucks coefficient.
>
> I search for things using "group search" for comp.lang.python
> and I get no results even though I know there are results from
> a few months or weeks ago.

There seems to be a problem with Google Searching 'at the moment'. I
have seen it with other groups, but not noticed it to date on c.l.p.

    http://groups.google.com/group/groupsknownissues/browse_thread/thread/d88d02f269a7d20d#

    J^n


From chris at simplistix.co.uk  Mon Aug 17 10:53:08 2009
From: chris at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 15:53:08 +0100
Subject: httplib incredibly slow :-(
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4A81D3CB.7080209@simplistix.co.uk>	
	
	
Message-ID: <4A896ED4.8000509@simplistix.co.uk>

i3dmaster wrote:
> Just wanted to check if you can try turning on the debug mode for
> httplib and see if you can read a bit more debug info on where the
> calls get hung. In your example, it would be conn.set_debuglevel(1)

I had a look through the code this debug level controls and I don't see 
any information that this provides which would help here...

Chris

-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting
            - http://www.simplistix.co.uk


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Aug 17 11:11:10 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:11:10 +0200
Subject: off topic: google groups sucks?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <087f64b6-0cc7-4a75-a2ba-9ca74d31f1fd@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4a89730e$0$32667$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>

jkn wrote:
> On Aug 17, 3:05 pm, Aaron Watters  wrote:
>> Just a note.  It seems that google groups is increasing the
>> sucks coefficient.
>>
>> I search for things using "group search" for comp.lang.python
>> and I get no results even though I know there are results from
>> a few months or weeks ago.
> 
> There seems to be a problem with Google Searching 'at the moment'. I
> have seen it with other groups, but not noticed it to date on c.l.p.
> 
>     http://groups.google.com/group/groupsknownissues/browse_thread/thread/d88d02f269a7d20d#

I noticed a problem with Google in general this weekend, not even related
to mailing lists. I can't remember getting similarly bad results from a web
search for years. Even trivial queries that worked for months returned
completely unrelated pages and lacked the "obvious" target page in the
result set.

Stefan


From jjposner at optimum.net  Mon Aug 17 11:31:30 2009
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:31:30 -0400
Subject: XML parsing with python
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A8977D2.1020801@optimum.net>


> Use the iterparse() function of the xml.etree.ElementTree package.
>
> http://effbot.org/zone/element-iterparse.htm
> http://codespeak.net/lxml/parsing.html#iterparse-and-iterwalk
>
> Stefan
>   

iterparse() is too big a hammer for this purpose, IMO. How about this:

  from xml.etree.ElementTree import ElementTree
  tree = ElementTree(None, "myfile.xml")
  for elem in tree.findall('//book/title'):
      print elem.text


-John



From wiggly at wiggly.org  Mon Aug 17 11:42:40 2009
From: wiggly at wiggly.org (Nigel Rantor)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 16:42:40 +0100
Subject: zip codes
In-Reply-To: <4A892F2B.4020507@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <35833d36-2fdc-4ed8-8142-604af3c88afe@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>		<4A8914DD.4000307@acm.org>
	<4A892F2B.4020507@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <4A897A70.3050100@wiggly.org>

MRAB wrote:
> Sjoerd Mullender wrote:
>> Martin P. Hellwig wrote:
>>> Shailen wrote:
>>>> Is there any Python module that helps with US and foreign zip-code
>>>> lookups? I'm thinking of something that provides basic mappings of zip
>>>> to cities, city to zips, etc. Since this kind of information is so
>>>> often used for basic user-registration, I'm assuming functionality of
>>>> this sort must be available for Python. Any suggestions will be much
>>>> appreciated.
>>>>
>>> There might be an associated can of worms here, for example in the
>>> Netherlands zip codes are actually copyrighted and require a license if
>>> you want to do something with them, on the other hand you get a nice SQL
>>> formatted db to use it. I don't know how this works in other countries
>>> but I imagine that it is likely to be generally the same.
>>>
>>
>> Also in The Netherlands, ZIP codes are much more fine-grained than in
>> some other countries: ZIP code plus house number together are sufficient
>> to uniquely identify an address.  I.e. you don't need the street name.
>> E.g., my work address has ZIP code 1098 XG and house number 123, so
>> together they indicate that I work at Science Park 123, Amsterdam.
>>
>> In other words, a simple city <-> ZIP mapping is not sufficient.
>>
> The same comment applies to UK postcodes, which are also alphanumeric.
> My home postcode, for example, is shared with only 3 other houses, IIRC.

Kind of off-topic...but nevertheless...

Yes, the UK postcode database (PAF) can be bought from the Royal Mail 
for a fee.

The data cannot be copyright, but the version they maintain and 
distribute is.

As an aside, the PAF has finer grained information than simply the 
postal code, every letterbox in the UK has (or is meant to) a DPS 
(delivery point suffix), so that given a post code and DPS you can 
uniquely identify individual letterbox even when, for example, a house 
has been split into multiple flats.

So, nastily, you *can* identify individual letterboxes, but the Royal 
Mail does not publicise the fact, so you cannot actually look at a post 
code on a letter and determine the letterbox it is intended for.

Shame really.

   n


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Aug 17 11:44:27 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 17 Aug 2009 08:44:27 -0700
Subject: Diversity in Python (was Re: Need cleanup advice for multiline string)
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

In article <461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd at o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
Robert Dailey   wrote:
>
>It's a figure of speech. And besides, why would I want programming
>advice from a woman? lol. Thanks for the help.

Well, I'm sorry to see this, it means I was wrong about the lack of
sexism in the Python community.  I encourage anyone who wants to improve
the situation to join the new diversity list:

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I saw `cout' being shifted "Hello world" times to the left and stopped
right there."  --Steve Gonedes


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Mon Aug 17 12:24:26 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 09:24:26 -0700
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
In-Reply-To: <200908160830.55031.emmanuel.surleau@gmail.com>
References: <24980842.post@talk.nabble.com> <4A8612CE.7080700@stoneleaf.us>
	<200908160830.55031.emmanuel.surleau@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A89843A.6090308@stoneleaf.us>

Emmanuel Surleau wrote:
>>Dr. Phillip M. Feldman wrote:
> 
> 
> [snip]
> 
> 
>>>def is_prime(n):
>>>   for j in range(2,n):
>>>      if (n % j) == 0: return False
>>>   return True
>>>
>>>It seems as though Python is actually expanding range(2,n) into a list of
>>>numbers, even though this is incredibly wasteful of memory. There should
>>>be a looping mechanism that generates the index variable values
>>>incrementally as they are needed.
>>
[snip]
 >>
>>I will also observe that if you were to stop programming whatever
>>language you are more familiar with in Python, and start programming
>>Python in Python, you'll have an easier time of it.
> 
> 
> I don't see what's particularly un-Pythonic with this code. Not using xrange() 
> is a mistake, certainly, but it remains clear, easily understandable code 
> which correctly demonstrates the naive algorithm for detecting whether n is a 
> prime. It doesn't call for condescension
> 
[snip]
 >
> Cheers,
> 
> Emm

My comment about programming Python in Python was geared more towards 
the subject line than the actual code, and the biases evident in his 
comments in both this thread and earlier ones.

~Ethan~


From invalid at invalid  Mon Aug 17 12:32:08 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:32:08 -0500
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-11, Bearophile  wrote:
> Robert Dailey:
>
>> This breaks the flow of scope. Would you guys solve this
>> problem by moving failMsg into global scope? Perhaps through
>> some other type of syntax?
>
> There are gals too here.

Straying a bit OT, but I find this particular issue rather
fascinating.

At least in the US, "guys" is now pretty much gender-neutral
according to my casual research (mostly just paying attention
to informal speach).

Oddly, it still seems to be masculine when singular. Though one
commonly hears a group of females addressed as "you guys" or
refered to as "those guys", one never hears a single female
referred to as "a guy" or "that guy".

It is a bit tricky, however, since a phrase like "a group of
guys" still seems to refer to just males since the word "guys"
in that case is being applied individually to a plurality of
persons rather being applied collectivelly to a single group --
if that makes any sense.

I've actually discussed this with a a number of female friends,
and they almost all thought the term "gals" was condescending
and actually preferred to be referred to collectively as
"guys".

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! You can't hurt me!!
                                  at               I have an ASSUMABLE
                               visi.com            MORTGAGE!!


From aaron.watters at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 12:41:14 2009
From: aaron.watters at gmail.com (Aaron Watters)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 09:41:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: off topic: google groups sucks?
References: <087f64b6-0cc7-4a75-a2ba-9ca74d31f1fd@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <082ae712-a55f-4bd6-aa07-71f6d4c2253b@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 17, 10:05?am, Aaron Watters  wrote:
> Just a note. ?It seems that google groups is increasing the
> sucks coefficient.

I'm having better luck now using the advanced search option
with queries like

   gadfly group:comp.lang.python

which become

   http://groups.google.com/groups/search?q=gadfly+group:comp.lang.python

The "search this group" feature still needs fixing, however.

  -- Aaron Watters

===
if you lined up all economists end to end
they'd still point in different directions.
   -- stolen from somewhere


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Mon Aug 17 13:03:56 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:03:56 +0200
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4A898D7C.2080709@sequans.com>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2009-08-11, Bearophile  wrote:
>   
>> Robert Dailey:
>>
>>     
>>> This breaks the flow of scope. Would you guys solve this
>>> problem by moving failMsg into global scope? Perhaps through
>>> some other type of syntax?
>>>       
>> There are gals too here.
>>     
>
> Straying a bit OT, but I find this particular issue rather
> fascinating.
>
> At least in the US, "guys" is now pretty much gender-neutral
> according to my casual research (mostly just paying attention
> to informal speach).
>
> Oddly, it still seems to be masculine when singular. Though one
> commonly hears a group of females addressed as "you guys" or
> refered to as "those guys", one never hears a single female
> referred to as "a guy" or "that guy".
>
> It is a bit tricky, however, since a phrase like "a group of
> guys" still seems to refer to just males since the word "guys"
> in that case is being applied individually to a plurality of
> persons rather being applied collectivelly to a single group --
> if that makes any sense.
>
> I've actually discussed this with a a number of female friends,
> and they almost all thought the term "gals" was condescending
> and actually preferred to be referred to collectively as
> "guys".
>
>   
I'm no English native, but I already heard women/men referring to a 
group as "guys", no matter that group gender configuration. It's even 
used for group composed exclusively of women. Moreover it looks like a 
*very* friendly form, so there is really nothing to worry about it.

Forms like:
"Hi guys", "You guys should do something...", "Come on guys..." are very 
friendly and gender-neutral.

JM


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Mon Aug 17 13:14:42 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:14:42 +0200
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Simon Brunning  (SB) wrote:

>SB> 2009/8/11 Robert Dailey :
>>> On Aug 11, 3:40?pm, Bearophile  wrote:
>>>> There are gals too here.
>>> 
>>> It's a figure of speech. And besides, why would I want programming
>>> advice from a woman? lol. Thanks for the help.

>SB> Give the attitudes still prevalent in our industry (cf
>SB>  and many more), I'm sorry to say that I
>SB> don't think this is funny.

seconded
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Mon Aug 17 13:23:39 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:23:39 +0200
Subject: Diversity in Python (was Re: Need cleanup advice for multiline
	string)
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4A89921B.4000603@sequans.com>

Aahz wrote:
> In article <461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd at o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
> Robert Dailey   wrote:
>   
>> It's a figure of speech. And besides, why would I want programming
>> advice from a woman? lol. Thanks for the help.
>>     
>
> Well, I'm sorry to see this, it means I was wrong about the lack of
> sexism in the Python community.  I encourage anyone who wants to improve
> the situation to join the new diversity list:
>
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity
>   
Are you suggesting this list reject part of the community regarding its 
sexual orientation, ethnicity, size, culture? If that was the case I'd 
like to know about it.
I would really want to know how you'd guess my gender (could be some 
clue somewhere), my sexual orientation, my religion and so on.
How can you reject someone regarding informations you don't have ?

That's the beauty of this mailing list, it has diversity, by design.
We even welcome people that mixes up joke with sexist aggression, not to 
mention how open minded we are :o)

Beside, the day you'll meet a real act of sexism in this list, please 
know that people talk and act on their own, do not assign their attitude 
to the whole community.
You'll know that Python is sexist the day you'll find the title 'No 
women allowed' on the python main document page.

JM

PS : Newbies are not welcome here !




From timothywayne.cook at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 13:30:44 2009
From: timothywayne.cook at gmail.com (Tim Cook)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 10:30:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: flatten a list of list
References: <9c972b02-3c30-4fad-95bd-cf6165913d6b@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 16, 6:47?am, Terry  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Is there a simple way (the pythonic way) to flatten a list of list?
> rather than my current solution:
>
> new_list=[]
> for l in list_of_list:
> ? ? new_list.extend(l)
>
> or,
>
> new_list=reduce(lambda x,y:x.extend(y), list_of_list)
>
> br, Terry

Well, This is not simple but it is comprhensive in that it has to do
several things.  I am using it to decompose deeply nested lists from
Pyparsing output that may have strings in a variety of languages.
Performance wise I do not know how it stacks up against the other
examples but it works for me.  :-)

def flatten(x):
    """flatten(sequence) -> list

    Returns a single, flat list which contains all elements retrieved
    from the sequence and all recursively contained sub-sequences
    (iterables). All strings are converted to unicode.

    """
    result = []
    for el in x:
        #if isinstance(el, (list, tuple)):
        if hasattr(el, "__iter__") and not isinstance(el, basestring):
            result.extend(flatten(el))
        else:
            result.append(el)


    # all strings must be unicode
    rtnlist=[]
    for x in result:
        if isinstance(x,str):
            # replace any brackets so Python doesn't think it's a list
and we still have a seperator.
            x=x.replace('[','_')
            x=x.replace(']','_')
            try:
                x=unicode(x, "utf8")  # need more decode types here
            except UnicodeDecodeError:
                x=unicode(x, "latin1")
            except UnicodeDecodeError:
                x=unicode(x,"iso-8859-1")
            except UnicodeDecodeError:
                x=unicode(x,"eucJP")

        rtnlist.append(x)

    return rtnlist


From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 13:33:52 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 10:33:52 -0700
Subject: Diversity in Python (was Re: Need cleanup advice for multiline
	string)
In-Reply-To: <4A89921B.4000603@sequans.com>
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	 <4A89921B.4000603@sequans.com>
Message-ID: 

> You'll know that Python is sexist the day you'll find the title 'No  
> women allowed' on the python main document page.

Good God I hope you're being ironic.

On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 10:23:39 -0700, Jean-Michel Pichavant  
 wrote:

> Aahz wrote:
>> In article  
>> <461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd at o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
>> Robert Dailey   wrote:
>>
>>> It's a figure of speech. And besides, why would I want programming
>>> advice from a woman? lol. Thanks for the help.
>>>
>>
>> Well, I'm sorry to see this, it means I was wrong about the lack of
>> sexism in the Python community.  I encourage anyone who wants to improve
>> the situation to join the new diversity list:
>>
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity
>>
> Are you suggesting this list reject part of the community regarding its  
> sexual orientation, ethnicity, size, culture? If that was the case I'd  
> like to know about it.
> I would really want to know how you'd guess my gender (could be some  
> clue somewhere), my sexual orientation, my religion and so on.
> How can you reject someone regarding informations you don't have ?
>
> That's the beauty of this mailing list, it has diversity, by design.
> We even welcome people that mixes up joke with sexist aggression, not to  
> mention how open minded we are :o)
>
> Beside, the day you'll meet a real act of sexism in this list, please  
> know that people talk and act on their own, do not assign their attitude  
> to the whole community.
> You'll know that Python is sexist the day you'll find the title 'No  
> women allowed' on the python main document page.
>
> JM
>
> PS : Newbies are not welcome here !
>
>



-- 
Rami Chowdhury
"Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --  
Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)


From seldan24 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 13:43:33 2009
From: seldan24 at gmail.com (seldan24)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 10:43:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Using a Callback Function - ftplib
Message-ID: <76875cdd-30c4-4a3b-8a16-d0e2061765d7@v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I'm utterly confused by something which is most likely trivial.  I'm
attempting to connect to an FTP server, retrieve a list of files, and
store than in an array.  I.e.:

import ftplib

ftp = ftplib.FTP(server)
ftp.login(user, pass)
ftp.cwd(conf['testdir'])
ftp.retrlines('NLST ' + "testfile*.txt")
ftp.quit()

The above example works fine... and would return a list of any files
that match "testfile*.txt" to standard out.  The issue is I don't want
that to go to stdout, I'd rather capture them within an array so I can
retrieve them later.

If I try something like:

my_files = ftp.retrlines('NLST ' + "testfile*.txt")

Then, my_files, will just print out the return code of the FTP NLST
command.  I'm trying to get the file names themselves.  Now, I've read
through the ftplib module section of the Python documentation and it
says that, by default, the output goes to sys.stdout unless a callback
function is used.  Here is where I get utterly lost.  I can certainly
see the files being outputted to sys.stdout, but don't know how to
capture that output... i.e.

testfile1.txt
testfile2.txt
testfile3.txt

Will show to the screen, but I can't catch it!  I'm sure this is
trivial... any help would be greatly appreciated.


From gallium.arsenide at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 13:44:49 2009
From: gallium.arsenide at gmail.com (John Yeung)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 10:44:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: off topic: google groups sucks?
References: <087f64b6-0cc7-4a75-a2ba-9ca74d31f1fd@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<082ae712-a55f-4bd6-aa07-71f6d4c2253b@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <784a24a3-066e-45b9-81e7-bed187e9f012@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 17, 12:41?pm, Aaron Watters  wrote:
> I'm having better luck now using the advanced search option
> with queries like
>
> ? ?gadfly group:comp.lang.python
>
> The "search this group" feature still needs fixing, however.

Thanks, Aaron, for confirming that it's not just me!  I've been
noticing spotty or missing results searching groups for a while now,
actually, to the point that I gave up trying.  Can't remember exactly
when it started, but I do remember that it used to work pretty well
and then suddenly got significantly worse.

Also, thanks for the tip of trying advanced searches.

John


From 71david at libero.it  Mon Aug 17 13:51:33 2009
From: 71david at libero.it (David)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:51:33 +0200
Subject: Using a Callback Function - ftplib
References: <76875cdd-30c4-4a3b-8a16-d0e2061765d7@v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1euafoc8zeh0q.91hedjv5ueuh$.dlg@40tude.net>

Il Mon, 17 Aug 2009 10:43:33 -0700 (PDT), seldan24 ha scritto:

> Hello,
> 
> I'm utterly confused by something which is most likely trivial.  I'm
> attempting to connect to an FTP server, retrieve a list of files, and
> store than in an array.  I.e.:
> 
> import ftplib
> 
> ftp = ftplib.FTP(server)
> ftp.login(user, pass)
> ftp.cwd(conf['testdir'])

Why bother with retrlines? Use the provided higer level fuctions:

remotefiles = []
ftp.dir(remotefiles.append)

or, if you prefer nlst

remotefiles = ftp.nlst()

regards
david


From seldan24 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 14:10:25 2009
From: seldan24 at gmail.com (seldan24)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:10:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Using a Callback Function - ftplib
References: <76875cdd-30c4-4a3b-8a16-d0e2061765d7@v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<1euafoc8zeh0q.91hedjv5ueuh$.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 17, 1:51?pm, David <71da... at libero.it> wrote:
> Il Mon, 17 Aug 2009 10:43:33 -0700 (PDT), seldan24 ha scritto:
>
> > Hello,
>
> > I'm utterly confused by something which is most likely trivial. ?I'm
> > attempting to connect to an FTP server, retrieve a list of files, and
> > store than in an array. ?I.e.:
>
> > import ftplib
>
> > ftp = ftplib.FTP(server)
> > ftp.login(user, pass)
> > ftp.cwd(conf['testdir'])
>
> Why bother with retrlines? Use the provided higer level fuctions:
>
> remotefiles = []
> ftp.dir(remotefiles.append)
>
> or, if you prefer nlst
>
> remotefiles = ftp.nlst()
>
> regards
> david

I didn't even notice the higher level methods.  I changed the
retrieval line to:

ftp.nlst("testfile*.txt")

This works great.  The result is even captured in an array.  I really
have no idea what the difference between a LIST and NLST is within
FTP.  Never delved that deep into it.  I did notice that an NLST will
return a specific FTP code if a file doesn't exist, whereas a LIST
doesn't.  So, I ended up using NLST as that'll generate an
ftplib.error_perm exception.  Based on if the job cares if a file is
not available or not (some do, some don't), I'll either exit, or
continue on with the file loop.

Anyway, thanks again, works perfectly, next time I'll try to scroll
down and read a bit more prior to posting!


From nad at acm.org  Mon Aug 17 14:25:30 2009
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:25:30 -0700
Subject: Uninstalling mac python2.5 to install python2.6
References: <83423F73-83DA-436B-A3BA-E83CD61CD28D@cs.stir.ac.uk>
Message-ID: 

In article <83423F73-83DA-436B-A3BA-E83CD61CD28D at cs.stir.ac.uk>,
 Farhan Sheikh  wrote:
> i originally had python2.5 on my mac at the univeristy and had to get  
> 2.6 to get NEST and pyNN to work together. however now as those are  
> now installed, i had to install numpy.
> 
> As i installed numpy, it only installed its directories into the  
> python2.5 folders and as i am new to to mac terminals i don't know how  
> to change its directories to be installed into python2.6. my question  
> is, do i have to uninstall python 2.5 so that only python2.6 is on the  
> machine or is there a way to change the path so it saves into python2.5?

There appears to be a NumPy installer image for Python 2.6 and OX 10.5 
here:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/numpy/files/

Multiple versions of python can co-exist on OS X.  You definitely should 
not remove the Apple-supplied python2.5 (linked to from /usr/bin/python) 
in 10.5.

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org



From fidellira.6 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 14:26:05 2009
From: fidellira.6 at gmail.com (axl456)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:26:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: GUI interface builder for python
References: 
Message-ID: <21bca3cf-b2c7-47d7-9142-26c9fd015f92@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 17, 1:59?am, "L at D@n"  wrote:
> Which is the best GUI interface builder with drag and drop
> capabilities.
> I am using Ubuntu GNU/Linux.
> Please help me.
> Thank you.

boa is really nice..


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 14:32:29 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:32:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
References:  
	<02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	 
	
	<4434e799-d907-49ca-93ee-a4be3276f9c2@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<3c0abe16-f05a-4c5f-9773-f813bc424f14@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 17, 4:40?am, exar... at twistedmatrix.com wrote:
> On 02:12 am, pavlovevide... at gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> >On Aug 16, 3:35?pm, sturlamolden  wrote:
> >>On 16 Aug, 14:57, Dennis Lee Bieber  wrote:
>
> >> > ? ? ? ? Well, the alternative would be to have two keywords for
> >>looping: one
> >> > for your "simple" incrementing integer loop, and another for a loop
> >>that
> >> > operates over the elements of some collection type.
>
> >>A compiler could easily recognise a statement like
>
> >>? ?for i in range(n):
>
> >>as a simple integer loop.
>
> >It would be a simple to do if you were writing it for a different
> >langauge was a lot less dynamic than Python is. ?It'd be quite a
> >complex hack to add it to CPython's compiler while maintaing the
> >current highly dynamic runtime semantics and backwards compatibility,
> >which is a design constraint of Python whether you like it or not.
>
> In your other message, you said this wasn't a legitimate CPython
> complaint. ?Here, you say that it would be a "complex hack" to implement
> this in CPython. ?"complex hack" has negative connotations in my mind.
> This seems contradictory to me.

Well, you missed the point, chief.

It's not a legitimate complaint because you can use xrange, you don't
need compiler magic to recognize and optimize range.


Carl Banks


From zorigaman at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 14:46:21 2009
From: zorigaman at gmail.com (Zorigaman)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:46:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Embedding a python console inside a python application
Message-ID: 

Hi,

I am starting an application in which I would like to have some
scripting functionality. It will obviously be done in Python. The
thing is that I would like my scripts to have access to the rest of
the application as an object it could manipulate.
I made some research and I found the code module, which allows to have
a Python interpreter inside an application, but I am not sure if I can
access to the "parent" which created this interpreter. A solution
could be to launch my application through an interpreter, but the
problem there is how to integrate it back into the GUI, redirecting
streams ?
Another option is the cmd module, but here, same problem, I am not
sure if can have access to my application's objects.
I am using PyQt with Python 2.6.1, I could switch to Python 3.0 if
necessary.
I am familiar with programming, but that's my first script-enabled
application, tell me if I am missing something obvious.

http://docs.python.org/library/code.html
http://docs.python.org/library/cmd.html


From jurgenex at hotmail.com  Mon Aug 17 14:48:43 2009
From: jurgenex at hotmail.com (Jürgen Exner)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:48:43 -0700
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<269572f2-5968-479b-a7e6-d3354a769250@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<60bd3cab-1cab-4677-b640-8d126343615a@d9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

Jon Harrop  wrote:
>Xah Lee wrote:
[...]

Please do not feed this well-known troll.

He is known to spew some remotely on-topic junk into a bunch of
unrelated NGs and to enjoy the ensuing confusion.

jue


From no.email at please.post  Mon Aug 17 15:05:26 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:05:26 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: XPath support?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

In  Kev Dwyer  writes:

>On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 20:29:15 +0000, kj wrote:

>> I'm looking for a XML parser that produces an object with full XPath
>> support.  What I've been using up to now, xml.etree.ElementTree, fails
>> to support Xpath predicates, as in "spam[@eggs='3']/ham".
>> 
>> What I'm trying to do is to read-in a large XML string, and parse it
>> into an object from which I can extract nodes matching selectors that
>> include such predicates.
>> 
>> Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
>> 
>> TIA!
>> 
>> kynn


>Have you tried lxml (http://codespeak.net/lxml/)?

Thanks!  (To Diez too!)

kynn



From no.email at please.post  Mon Aug 17 15:10:22 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:10:22 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Data visualization in Python
Message-ID: 




I'm looking for a good Python package for visualizing
scientific/statistical data.  (FWIW, the OS I'm interested in is
Mac OS X).

The users of this package will be experimental biologists with
little programming experience (but currently learning Python).

(I normally visualize data using R or Mathematica, but I don't want
to saddle these novices with the task of learning yet another
language.)

TIA!

kynn


From bruce at cenderis.demon.co.uk  Mon Aug 17 15:13:29 2009
From: bruce at cenderis.demon.co.uk (Bruce Stephens)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 20:13:29 +0100
Subject: python doc available in emacs info format?
References: 
	<4a893f9a$0$307$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
Message-ID: <87d46u9rty.fsf@cenderis.demon.co.uk>

"Colin S. Miller"  writes:

[...]

> Ubuntu maintains a package search site, it is on
> http://packages.ubuntu.com/
>
> However, there seems to be no files named
> python.*info   (regexp)

And yet there are info files in python2.5-doc:
.

[...]



From paul at boddie.org.uk  Mon Aug 17 15:22:16 2009
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 12:22:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Diversity in Python (was Re: Need cleanup advice for multiline 
	string)
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> 
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	
	
Message-ID: <704d9cc8-fa9a-4e7e-8d7a-bb130935d10a@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On 17 Aug, 19:23, Jean-Michel Pichavant 
wrote:
>
> Are you suggesting this list reject part of the community regarding its
> sexual orientation, ethnicity, size, culture? If that was the case I'd
> like to know about it.

Careful: you probably meant to write "rejects", not "reject". That
changes the meaning of what you've written somewhat.

> I would really want to know how you'd guess my gender (could be some
> clue somewhere), my sexual orientation, my religion and so on.
> How can you reject someone regarding informations you don't have ?

Well, everyone can of course hide their actual identity on the
Internet, but when someone references a group of people with a
juvenile remark (if we are being charitable about the matter), it has
nothing to do with guessing the characteristics of individuals. The
whole excuse that anonymity defends against insults and harassment is
a bit like saying that slinging mud at everyone is acceptable as long
as everyone is encouraged to do it and nobody is wearing their nicest
clothes. And unless your idea of a Python-related conference is
something close to a fancy-dress event with everyone "in character" -
which would obviously limit the effectiveness of such an event - you
presumably understand that there is a genuine need for continuity
between interactions on and off the Internet. This somewhat undermines
your argument.

> That's the beauty of this mailing list, it has diversity, by design.

An explanation is needed here for this not to sound like
conversational padding.

> We even welcome people that mixes up joke with sexist aggression, not to
> mention how open minded we are :o)

Well, jokes actually need an amusing side, regardless of how
"edgy" ("juvenile" is typically the more accurate term) the joke-
teller is trying to be, and that was completely absent from the remark
in question. There's little room for error in communication over a
medium like this one, as I pointed out with your opening sentence. And
much as it probably upsets the "unfettered free speech" advocates, we
should be able to assert that "sexist aggression" is not acceptable
behaviour amongst those who seek to participate in our community.

Paul


From invalid at invalid  Mon Aug 17 15:29:36 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:29:36 -0500
Subject: Data visualization in Python
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-17, kj  wrote:

> I'm looking for a good Python package for visualizing
> scientific/statistical data.  (FWIW, the OS I'm interested in
> is Mac OS X).

Both matplotlib and gnuplot-py can produce pretty good results
with a minimum of effort:

  http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/
  http://gnuplot-py.sourceforge.net/  

I lean more towards gnuplot, but that's probably just a bias
from having used Gnuplot for 10+ years before learning Python.
Both matplotlib and gnuplot are basically 2D packages with some
3D features.
  
There's also a Python binding for VTK.  I found it a bit harder
to use for the stuff I did, but sophisticated 3D stuff it's
probably the winner:

  http://www.vtk.org/

[It also has the only Delaunay triangulation module (of the 3
that I tried) that worked reliably, but you probably don't care
about that.]
  
-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Let me do my TRIBUTE
                                  at               to FISHNET STOCKINGS ...
                               visi.com            


From invalid at invalid  Mon Aug 17 15:36:18 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:36:18 -0500
Subject: Data visualization in Python
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-17, Grant Edwards  wrote:
> On 2009-08-17, kj  wrote:
>
>> I'm looking for a good Python package for visualizing
>> scientific/statistical data.  (FWIW, the OS I'm interested in
>> is Mac OS X).
>
> Both matplotlib and gnuplot-py can produce pretty good results
> with a minimum of effort:

Oh, just in case you haven't found them, you might also be
interested in the SciPy and Scientific Python projects:

   http://www.scipy.org/

   http://sourcesup.cru.fr/projects/scientific-py/

Though they have deceptively similar names, they're two
separate projects.  Unfortunately, some rather promenent
documentation conflates the two.  For example,

  http://docs.python.org/3.1/tutorial/whatnow.html

refers to www.scipy.org as "the Scientific Python" project.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! I hope the
                                  at               ``Eurythmics'' practice
                               visi.com            birth control ...


From exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  Mon Aug 17 15:41:55 2009
From: exarkun at twistedmatrix.com (exarkun at twistedmatrix.com)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:41:55 -0000
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<4434e799-d907-49ca-93ee-a4be3276f9c2@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<3c0abe16-f05a-4c5f-9773-f813bc424f14@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <20090817194155.8740.902674574.divmod.xquotient.69@localhost.localdomain>

On 06:32 pm, pavlovevidence at gmail.com wrote:
>On Aug 17, 4:40?am, exar... at twistedmatrix.com wrote:
>>On 02:12 am, pavlovevide... at gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> >On Aug 16, 3:35?pm, sturlamolden  wrote:
>> >>On 16 Aug, 14:57, Dennis Lee Bieber  wrote:
>>
>> >> > ? ? ? ? Well, the alternative would be to have two keywords for
>> >>looping: one
>> >> > for your "simple" incrementing integer loop, and another for a 
>>loop
>> >>that
>> >> > operates over the elements of some collection type.
>>
>> >>A compiler could easily recognise a statement like
>>
>> >>? ?for i in range(n):
>>
>> >>as a simple integer loop.
>>
>> >It would be a simple to do if you were writing it for a different
>> >langauge was a lot less dynamic than Python is. ?It'd be quite a
>> >complex hack to add it to CPython's compiler while maintaing the
>> >current highly dynamic runtime semantics and backwards compatibility,
>> >which is a design constraint of Python whether you like it or not.
>>
>>In your other message, you said this wasn't a legitimate CPython
>>complaint. ?Here, you say that it would be a "complex hack" to 
>>implement
>>this in CPython. ?"complex hack" has negative connotations in my mind.
>>This seems contradictory to me.
>
>Well, you missed the point, chief.
>
>It's not a legitimate complaint because you can use xrange, you don't
>need compiler magic to recognize and optimize range.

There's a lot of things in Python that I don't strictly *need*.  That 
doesn't mean that they wouldn't be welcome if I could have them. 
Getting rid of the range/xrange dichotomy would improve things.  Yes, I 
can work around it until the runtime is good enough to let me think 
about an *interesting* problem instead.  That makes it a legitimate 
complaint in my eyes.  You're welcome to disagree, of course, but do you 
have an argument more compelling than the one you give here?  It seems 
to me one could use it to argue a lot of Python out of existence. 
Chief.  (Seriously, "chief"?  What are you going for?  It sounds like 
condescension to me; what's the point of that?  I hope I'm just 
misreading you.)

Jean-Paul


From jon at ffconsultancy.com  Mon Aug 17 15:42:38 2009
From: jon at ffconsultancy.com (Jon Harrop)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 20:42:38 +0100
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<269572f2-5968-479b-a7e6-d3354a769250@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<60bd3cab-1cab-4677-b640-8d126343615a@d9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Xah Lee wrote:
> On Aug 12, 12:15 pm, Raymond Hettinger  wrote:
>> * The reason for implementing the key= parameter had nothing to do
>> with limitations of Python's compiler.  Instead, it was inspired by
>> the
>> decorate-sort-undecorate pattern.
> 
> The decorate-sort-undecorate pattern is a compiler limitation, for
> most of today's langs. I'm not sure, but i think some of the fancy
> functional langs automatically detect such and optimize it away, to
> various degrees.

You mean people use that pattern as a fast alternative in languages where
user-defined functions are very slow, like Python and Mathematica?

-- 
Dr Jon D Harrop, Flying Frog Consultancy Ltd.
http://www.ffconsultancy.com/?u


From brochu121 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 15:51:19 2009
From: brochu121 at gmail.com (David Brochu)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 15:51:19 -0400
Subject: comparing XML files to eachother
Message-ID: <9583ed900908171251k50fafaefrd626439bf1bd9a3c@mail.gmail.com>

I need to compare one xml document to another to see if the content matches.
Unfortunately, the formatting (spacing) and order of elements may change
between files from run to run. I have looked into xml dom minidom but can't
seem to find how to accomplish this. Does anyone know how I can do a compare
between two XML documents using the STL?
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From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 15:59:43 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 12:59:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
References:  
	<02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	 
	
	<4434e799-d907-49ca-93ee-a4be3276f9c2@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<3c0abe16-f05a-4c5f-9773-f813bc424f14@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> 
	
	
	
Message-ID: <6c86d734-61b8-48e2-aa28-a62dfbd2ee75@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 17, 12:41?pm, exar... at twistedmatrix.com wrote:
> There's a lot of things in Python that I don't strictly *need*. ?That
> doesn't mean that they wouldn't be welcome if I could have them.
> Getting rid of the range/xrange dichotomy would improve things. ?Yes, I
> can work around it until the runtime is good enough to let me think
> about an *interesting* problem instead.

You don't have to think about using xrange in a for loop, you just
always use it.

>?That makes it a legitimate
> complaint in my eyes. ?You're welcome to disagree, of course, but do you
> have an argument more compelling than the one you give here?

I am not arguing in favor of range/xrange, I am saying that it's silly
to complain that the compiler isn't a whole lot more complex than it
is just so it can implemnent a semantically-diconnected special case
just so that you can avoid typing an extra "x".  The cost doesn't even
remotely justify it.


Carl Banks


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 16:00:44 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 13:00:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
References:  
	<02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	 
	
	<4434e799-d907-49ca-93ee-a4be3276f9c2@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<3c0abe16-f05a-4c5f-9773-f813bc424f14@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> 
	
	
	
	<6c86d734-61b8-48e2-aa28-a62dfbd2ee75@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <15810fe6-604b-49e8-8bd6-b3766bf9f993@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 17, 12:59?pm, Carl Banks  wrote:
>?The cost doesn't even remotely justify it.

I mean, it doesn't even remotely justify the cost.

Carl Banks


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Mon Aug 17 16:05:13 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 22:05:13 +0200
Subject: zip codes
References: <35833d36-2fdc-4ed8-8142-604af3c88afe@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
	<512e67d9-8733-4329-a7d9-c6e21d6a2165@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Grant Edwards  (GE) wrote:

>GE> On 2009-08-16, Shailen  wrote:
>>> Thanks Martin and Aahz. Anyone know if zip code information is
>>> copyrighted for the US?

>GE> You can't copyright "information" as such.  Only concrete
>GE> expressions of information.  A particular publication
>GE> containing zip code information can be copyrighted.  The
>GE> underlying facts themselve cannot be.

But that doesn't help you if you need that information and the only way
to obtain it is from copyrighted sources.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From ronn.ross at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 16:18:17 2009
From: ronn.ross at gmail.com (Ronn Ross)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 16:18:17 -0400
Subject: Barcodes
Message-ID: <9c8c445f0908171318x2d9d862bi35ccb398376aceca@mail.gmail.com>

My company needs a small inventory management app. Does python have any
libraries to help with reading and writing bar codes?
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From aaron.watters at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 16:35:02 2009
From: aaron.watters at gmail.com (Aaron Watters)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 13:35:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: off topic: google groups sucks?
References: <087f64b6-0cc7-4a75-a2ba-9ca74d31f1fd@o32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<082ae712-a55f-4bd6-aa07-71f6d4c2253b@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> 
	<784a24a3-066e-45b9-81e7-bed187e9f012@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <51877a03-b6de-4131-90d8-13cd618236aa@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 17, 1:44?pm, John Yeung  wrote:
> Thanks, Aaron, for confirming that it's not just me!

yea, unfortunately this kind of thing happens in monopolies
that have no viable competition anymore... Sometimes I begin
to suspect that I'm seeing the results that I should want
rather than the results I want.

(Lucene has this property
too -- you get the results the algorithm wants you to get,
rather than the results you want to get.)

    -- Aaron Watters

===
In communism the future is certain,
but the past is ever changing.


From jordilin at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 16:37:13 2009
From: jordilin at gmail.com (jordilin)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 13:37:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Data visualization in Python
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 17 ago, 21:10, kj  wrote:
> I'm looking for a good Python package for visualizing
> scientific/statistical data. ?(FWIW, the OS I'm interested in is
> Mac OS X).
>
> The users of this package will be experimental biologists with
> little programming experience (but currently learning Python).
>
> (I normally visualize data using R or Mathematica, but I don't want
> to saddle these novices with the task of learning yet another
> language.)
>
> TIA!
>
> kynn
Matplotlib is the one. There is Google Chart api which seems fairly
easy to understand and use thanks to pygooglechart bindings.


From emile at fenx.com  Mon Aug 17 16:44:52 2009
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 13:44:52 -0700
Subject: Barcodes
In-Reply-To: <9c8c445f0908171318x2d9d862bi35ccb398376aceca@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9c8c445f0908171318x2d9d862bi35ccb398376aceca@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

On 8/17/2009 1:18 PM Ronn Ross said...
> My company needs a small inventory management app. Does python have any 
> libraries to help with reading and writing bar codes?

I've written bar code apps and python really doesn't enter into that 
part of things.  Printers generally have bar code printing capabilities 
so you just send the right escape sequences and you get the bar codes. 
To read them, bar code readers scan and translate before sending the 
values through typically a keyboard wedge or serial port.

Emile



From hani.mousli at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 16:47:44 2009
From: hani.mousli at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?2YfYp9mG2Yog2KfZhNmF2YjYtdmE2Yo=?=)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 13:47:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Strongly typed list
Message-ID: 

Hello, I am using eclips for python and i am facing a problem. I have
many classes with many properties and want a list of objects from one
of my declared classes. The problem is:When i am accessing any item
from the list, the IDE does not know it's type because in python we do
not declare the variable with it's type, so there is no auto complete
and i have to go to the class to copy the attribute name. To make idea
more clear:

class AutomataBranch(object):
    def __init__(selfparams):
        self.Name="";
        self.nodes=[];

class LanguageAutomata(object):
    def __init__(selfparams):
        self.cfgAutomata=[];#This has AutomaBranch Type
Now in any method in LanguageAutomata class if i wrote: cfgAutomata.
Then it wont give me the Name attribute Is there any solution for
that?
Perhaps of there is some thing like C# List
cfgAutomata such that the list wont accept items unless they are
AutomataBranch will be good.


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Mon Aug 17 16:55:23 2009
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 15:55:23 -0500
Subject: Barcodes
In-Reply-To: 
References: <9c8c445f0908171318x2d9d862bi35ccb398376aceca@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <4A89C3BB.2030605@tim.thechases.com>

>> My company needs a small inventory management app. Does
>> python have any libraries to help with reading and writing
>> bar codes?
> 
> I've written bar code apps and python really doesn't enter
> into that part of things.  Printers generally have bar code
> printing capabilities so you just send the right escape
> sequences and you get the bar codes. To read them, bar code
> readers scan and translate before sending the values through
> typically a keyboard wedge or serial port.

To add to what Emile mentions, most barcode readers present a 
keyboard-wedge interface, so that scanning a barcode merely 
appears as if you typed it at the keyboard (USB readers show up 
as a HID profile).  Often they'll have configuration barcodes 
that you can scan to tweak the profile (such as pressing , 
 or an arrow-key after sending the barcode; controlling beep 
tone & volume, etc).

For printing barcodes, you can use any number of solutions -- the 
most popular usually just involves installing a "barcode font" 
and then rendering text in that font to your desired output 
canvas.  I believe there are some native rendering solutions as 
well, but I've not investigated since the font method was more 
than sufficient for my wants.

-tkc





From http  Mon Aug 17 16:56:13 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 17 Aug 2009 13:56:13 -0700
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<269572f2-5968-479b-a7e6-d3354a769250@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<60bd3cab-1cab-4677-b640-8d126343615a@d9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <7xtz06cg7m.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Jon Harrop  writes:
> You mean people use that pattern as a fast alternative in languages where
> user-defined functions are very slow, like Python and Mathematica?

It really doesn't matter whether the language is fast or slow--there
are going to be applications where calling the comparison function
multiple times per element is slower than calling it once per element
and storing the result.

Note the Haskell idiom (sortBy (compare`on`f) xs) is similar to DSU
but calls the comparison function multiple times.

Python 3.0 went overboard by actually removing the cmp argument and
requiring use of the key argument.  That requires various kludges if
the key is, say, a tree structure that has to be recursively compared
with another such structure.  Maybe then can bring back cmp someday.


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 17:06:04 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:06:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> 
	
	
Message-ID: <1fa1663b-a1cb-42d4-890b-0617b73e8816@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 17, 10:03?am, Jean-Michel Pichavant 
wrote:
> I'm no English native, but I already heard women/men referring to a
> group as "guys", no matter that group gender configuration. It's even
> used for group composed exclusively of women. Moreover it looks like a
> *very* friendly form, so there is really nothing to worry about it.

I like how being very friendly means calling people after a guy who
tried to blow up the English Parliament.


Carl Banks


From xahlee at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 17:09:54 2009
From: xahlee at gmail.com (Xah Lee)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:09:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Xah's Edu Corner: The importance of syntax & notations.
References: 
	<25203724-bf60-484f-9ede-e61c45f15e33@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: 

http://www.stephenwolfram.com/publications/recent/mathml/index.html

i was trying to find the publication date and context, but didn't find
it last time after a couple min.  Yesterday, on rereading, i did. The
article in question is:

?
Mathematical Notation: Past and Future (2000)

Stephen Wolfram
October 20, 2000
Transcript of a keynote address presented at
MathML and Math on the Web: MathML International Conference 2000
?

so, it's a speech for MathML conf in 2000.

so, this explains the error on the plimpton 322. The latest discovery
on that is published in 2002 and later.

the date of this speech also explains parts of the writings about some
mysterious ?fundamental science work?, which now we know is his
controversial book A New Kind Of Science (2002).

  Xah
? http://xahlee.org/

?

----------------------
Xah Lee  wrote:

Personally, particular interesting info i've learned is that, for all
my trouble in the past decade expressing problems of traditional math
notation, i learned from his article this single-phrase summary:
?traditional math notation lacks a grammar?.  The article is somewhat
disappointing though. I was expecting he'd go into some details about
the science of math notations, or, as he put it aptly: ?linguistics of
math notations?. However, he didn't touch the subject, except saying
that it haven't been studied.

upon a more detailed reading of Stephen's article, i discovered some
errors.

On this page:http://www.stephenwolfram.com/publications/recent/mathml/
mathml2.html

he mentions the Plimpton 322 tablet. It is widely taught in math
history books, that this table is pythagorean triples.

On reading his article, i wanted to refresh my understanding of the
subject, so i looked up Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plimpton_322

and behold!

apparantly, in recent academic publications, it is suggested that this
is not pythagorean triples, but rather: ?a list of regular reciprocal
pairs?.

  Xah
?http://xahlee.org/

?


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 17:12:51 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:12:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Diversity in Python (was Re: Need cleanup advice for multiline 
	string)
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> 
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 17, 8:44?am, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
> In article <461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8... at o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
> Robert Dailey ? wrote:
>
>
>
> >It's a figure of speech. And besides, why would I want programming
> >advice from a woman? lol. Thanks for the help.
>
> Well, I'm sorry to see this, it means I was wrong about the lack of
> sexism in the Python community.

Oh come on, one newbie making an off-color joke is not any sort of
reflection of the community as a whole.

Anyway it's pretty naive to expect what is now a large community to
avoid bad eggs altogether.  Price you pay for popularity.


Carl Banks


From fabiofz at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 17:13:10 2009
From: fabiofz at gmail.com (Fabio Zadrozny)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 18:13:10 -0300
Subject: Strongly typed list
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

> Hello, I am using eclips for python and i am facing a problem. I have
> many classes with many properties and want a list of objects from one
> of my declared classes. The problem is:When i am accessing any item
> from the list, the IDE does not know it's type because in python we do
> not declare the variable with it's type, so there is no auto complete
> and i have to go to the class to copy the attribute name. To make idea
> more clear:
>
> class AutomataBranch(object):
> ? ?def __init__(selfparams):
> ? ? ? ?self.Name="";
> ? ? ? ?self.nodes=[];
>
> class LanguageAutomata(object):
> ? ?def __init__(selfparams):
> ? ? ? ?self.cfgAutomata=[];#This has AutomaBranch Type
> Now in any method in LanguageAutomata class if i wrote: cfgAutomata.
> Then it wont give me the Name attribute Is there any solution for
> that?
> Perhaps of there is some thing like C# List
> cfgAutomata such that the list wont accept items unless they are
> AutomataBranch will be good.


Hello,

Unfortunately, right now there is no way to gather that specific code
completion in pydev -- because of the dynamic nature of python, that
info is very hard to get.

Best Regards,

Fabio


From hani.mousli at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 17:19:01 2009
From: hani.mousli at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?2YfYp9mG2Yog2KfZhNmF2YjYtdmE2Yo=?=)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:19:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Strongly typed list
References: 
	
Message-ID: <7718922b-c72c-4a7e-90a3-098318063013@n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

Please could you lead me to a way or a good IDE that makes developing
huge projects in python more easier than what i found.Now i am using
eclips. Actually it is very hard to remember all my classes methods
and attributes or copy and paste them each time.
Thanks very much for your interest
Hani Almousli.....


From xahlee at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 17:26:32 2009
From: xahlee at gmail.com (Xah Lee)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:26:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: python doc available in emacs info format?
References: 
	<4a893f9a$0$307$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
Message-ID: <03e865a3-5789-424c-9851-7567fcf00fa6@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

> Please do not slag off a project if you want people to help;
> it tends to put the goat up.

a healthy community needs both positive comment as well as negative to
grow.

emacs's user base has been rotting off from i estimate more than 50%
of programers to less that 1% today.

the particular observation about info doc in this thread is a specific
example.

You can help FSF and emacs to improve, by, for example, trying to help
it to evolve with the rapidly changing computing industry, In this
case, document formats, provided if you see some of my points as
valid. Or, at least consider this eroding awareness of the gnu info
format among average programers worth discussing. No disrespect to
you, but dismissing it as ?troll? or similiar sentiment is not
helpful.

emacs community is too much cult and pride. FSF and its product the
GNU was highly successful in the 1980 and 1990s, with its gcc, emacs,
and slew of gnu version of unix tools. A significant part of the
reason is because these products at the time is truely better products
in comparison to existing ones, that there are almost no substitute.
Today, for many variety and complexity of reasons, almost none of this
is true, except possiblly a few such as gcc and GPG. The unix shells
ways and sed, awk, etc tools has largely been replaced by perl,
python, ruby etc, partly due to the changing nature of computing. For
GCC itself, and make, yacc, bison etc there are tens of competiting
products either commercial or open source. Then there's Java, with its
entire suite of tools and libs, and there are tens of truely quality
languages out there today other then the ones that GCC can handle.

emacs 23, although is fantastic to us emacs fans, but if you look
carefully at its feature list, most of it is widely in commericial
software about 10 years ago.

  Xah
? http://xahlee.org/

?


On Aug 17, 4:32 am, "Colin S. Miller"  wrote:
> Xah Lee wrote:
> > btw, is there still info format for python doc?
>
> > i feel kinda sad that emacs info format has pretty much been
> > deprecated over the past decade. About a decade ago, you still will
> > see now and then people asking for emacs info format of docs (was the
> > days of perl). Today, one don't hear of it.
>
> > Part of this is due to emacs cult problem. See:
>
> Xah,
>
> Please do not slag off a project if you want people to help;
> it tends to put the goat up.
>
> It is not "Emacs Info" format, it is FSF Info format.
> There is a stand-alone program to read the Info documentation.
> The program is called "info".
>
> Ubuntu maintains a package search site, it is onhttp://packages.ubuntu.com/
>
> However, there seems to be no files named
> python.*info   (regexp)
>
> There is a
> python-docutils package
> which does contain information in several
> other formats.
>
> This package can be found either via the above site
> or using "apt-cache search python-doc".
>
> As "info" is a FSF format, all FSF produced programs
> will provide documentation in this format. However Python
> is not under the auspices of the FSF, so does not need to use
> this format.
>
> BTW,
> HTML versions of INFO documentation can be generated by
> info2html or info_to_html on them, or texi2html on the source.
>
> Have a nice day,
> Colin S. Miller


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Mon Aug 17 17:31:51 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:31:51 -0700
Subject: Diversity in Python (was Re: Need cleanup advice for multiline 
	string)
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908171431i36557d40wc5b85c67e0dc193d@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Carl Banks wrote:
> On Aug 17, 8:44?am, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
>> In article <461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8... at o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
>> Robert Dailey ? wrote:
>> >It's a figure of speech. And besides, why would I want programming
>> >advice from a woman? lol. Thanks for the help.
>>
>> Well, I'm sorry to see this, it means I was wrong about the lack of
>> sexism in the Python community.
>
> Oh come on, one newbie making an off-color joke is not any sort of
> reflection of the community as a whole.
>
> Anyway it's pretty naive to expect what is now a large community to
> avoid bad eggs altogether. ?Price you pay for popularity.

Agreed on both points, but the lack of any reprimanding for making
said inappropriate joke /would/ reflect badly on the community.
Fortunately, said person's behavior has now been condemned by virtue
of this thread; it's a step in the right direction.

Cheers,
Chris


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Mon Aug 17 17:41:54 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 22:41:54 +0100
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
In-Reply-To: <1fa1663b-a1cb-42d4-890b-0617b73e8816@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: 	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
		
	<1fa1663b-a1cb-42d4-890b-0617b73e8816@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A89CEA2.10400@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Carl Banks wrote:
> On Aug 17, 10:03 am, Jean-Michel Pichavant 
> wrote:
>> I'm no English native, but I already heard women/men referring to a
>> group as "guys", no matter that group gender configuration. It's even
>> used for group composed exclusively of women. Moreover it looks like a
>> *very* friendly form, so there is really nothing to worry about it.
> 
> I like how being very friendly means calling people after a guy who
> tried to blow up the English Parliament.
> 
Guy Fawkes adopted the name Guido while fighting for the Spanish in the
Low Countries:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes



From nat.k at gm.ml  Mon Aug 17 18:16:56 2009
From: nat.k at gm.ml (Nathan Keel)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 15:16:56 -0700
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<269572f2-5968-479b-a7e6-d3354a769250@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<60bd3cab-1cab-4677-b640-8d126343615a@d9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

Jon Harrop wrote:

> Xah Lee wrote:
>> On Aug 12, 12:15 pm, Raymond Hettinger  wrote:
>>> * The reason for implementing the key= parameter had nothing to do
>>> with limitations of Python's compiler.  Instead, it was inspired by
>>> the
>>> decorate-sort-undecorate pattern.
>> 
>> The decorate-sort-undecorate pattern is a compiler limitation, for
>> most of today's langs. I'm not sure, but i think some of the fancy
>> functional langs automatically detect such and optimize it away, to
>> various degrees.
> 
> You mean people use that pattern as a fast alternative in languages
> where user-defined functions are very slow, like Python and
> Mathematica?
> 


Do not give this "Xah Lee" idiot any attention. This asshole posts only
self-serving nonsense, because he thinks it makes him sound important
(when in reality, he is absolutely clueless).  This idiot always cross
posts to 5 or more different groups that have nothing to do with his
attempts to impress people (which always fail).  He's incredibly
arrogant, yet incredibly clueless.


From zorigaman at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 18:26:23 2009
From: zorigaman at gmail.com (Zorigaman)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 15:26:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Embedding a python console inside a python application
References: 
Message-ID: <15807e7d-2b96-4f25-8998-7506743c5fea@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On 17 ao?t, 20:46, Zorigaman  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am starting an application in which I would like to have some
> scripting functionality. It will obviously be done in Python. The
> thing is that I would like my scripts to have access to the rest of
> the application as an object it could manipulate.
> I made some research and I found the code module, which allows to have
> a Python interpreter inside an application, but I am not sure if I can
> access to the "parent" which created this interpreter. A solution
> could be to launch my application through an interpreter, but the
> problem there is how to integrate it back into the GUI, redirecting
> streams ?
> Another option is the cmd module, but here, same problem, I am not
> sure if can have access to my application's objects.
> I am using PyQt with Python 2.6.1, I could switch to Python 3.0 if
> necessary.
> I am familiar with programming, but that's my first script-enabled
> application, tell me if I am missing something obvious.
>
> http://docs.python.org/library/code.htmlhttp://docs.python.org/library/cmd.html

D'oh. The code module offers exactly what I need, you can specify
object in the interpreter's constructor. D'oh.


From nospam at nospam.com  Mon Aug 17 18:26:47 2009
From: nospam at nospam.com (Gilles Ganault)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 00:26:47 +0200
Subject: Converting DD MM YYYY into YYYY-MM-DD?
Message-ID: 

Hello,

	I need to convert DD MM YYYY dates into the MySQL-friendly
YYYY-MM-DD, and translate the month name from literal French to its
numeric equivalent (eg. "Janvier" into "01").

Here's an example:

SELECT dateinscription, dateconnexion FROM membres LIMIT 1;
26 Mai 2007|17 Ao?t 2009 - 09h20

I'd like to update the row into "2007-05-26" and "2009-08-17 09:20",
respectively.

What is the best way to do this in Python?

Thank you.


From python at rcn.com  Mon Aug 17 18:42:55 2009
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 15:42:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<269572f2-5968-479b-a7e6-d3354a769250@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com> 
	<60bd3cab-1cab-4677-b640-8d126343615a@d9g2000prh.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: 

[Xah Lee]
> This part i don't particular agree:
>
> > * The reason for implementing the key= parameter had nothing to do
> > with limitations of Python's compiler. ?Instead, it was inspired by
> > the
> > decorate-sort-undecorate pattern.
>
> The decorate-sort-undecorate pattern is a compiler limitation, for
> most of today's langs. I'm not sure, but i think some of the fancy
> functional langs automatically detect such and optimize it away, to
> various degrees.
>
> ... my criticism is usually written in a style catered to irritate a
> particular class of coder i call tech geekers (they think of themselfs
> with their idiotic term ?hackers?). So, parts are exaggerated. It'd be
> more clear to say, that the reason for python's ?key?, and as a
> ?solution? or need of the decorate-sort-undecorate issue, can be
> attributed to the current state of the art of popular imperative
> language's compilers (induced by such lang's semantics).

I'm not following you here.  If you're saying that it is possible
for a compiler to automatically transform a cmp argument into
a key argument, transforming O(n log n) calls into O(n) calls, then
I don't see how that could be done (a cmp argument can be a C function
that is not introspectable or an arbitrarily complex python function
that may be difficult to analyze and transform programmatically).

The key function was introduced as a simpler way for programmers
to write the commonly used decorate-sort-undecorate pattern --
compiler
limitations had nothing to do with it.

In general, key functions are not a terribly new or inflexible
concept.
The SORT BY clauses in SQL are an example.

That being said, it is a fair criticism of Python's compiler that it
does not do much in the way of optimizations.  It does a handful of
basic peephole optimizations but that is about it.  Other languages
like Haskell fair better in this regard.


Raymond


From gregor.lingl at aon.at  Mon Aug 17 19:14:57 2009
From: gregor.lingl at aon.at (Gregor Lingl)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 01:14:57 +0200
Subject: Splitting a string into substrings of equal size
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4a85ffe2$0$24643$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	
Message-ID: <4a89e480$0$2302$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>

Simon Forman schrieb:
> On Aug 14, 8:22 pm, candide  wrote:
>> Suppose you need to split a string into substrings of a given size (except
>> possibly the last substring). I make the hypothesis the first slice is at the
>> end of the string.
>> A typical example is provided by formatting a decimal string with thousands
>> separator.
>>
>> What is the pythonic way to do this ?
>>
...
>> Thanks
> 
> FWIW:
> 
> def chunks(s, length=3):
>     stop = len(s)
>     start = stop - length
>     while start > 0:
>         yield s[start:stop]
>         stop, start = start, start - length
>     yield s[:stop]
> 
> 
> s = '1234567890'
> print ','.join(reversed(list(chunks(s))))
> # prints '1,234,567,890'

or:

 >>> def chunks(s, length=3):
         i, j = 0, len(s) % length or length
         while i < len(s):
                 yield s[i:j]
                 i, j = j, j + length

 >>> print(','.join(list(chunks(s))))
1,234,567,890
 >>> print(','.join(list(chunks(s,2))))
12,34,56,78,90
 >>> print(','.join(list(chunks(s,4))))
12,3456,7890

Regards,
Gregor


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Mon Aug 17 19:30:39 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 09:30:39 +1000
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87ab1ykogw.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Robert Dailey  writes:

> On Aug 11, 3:40?pm, Bearophile  wrote:
> > Robert Dailey:
> > > This breaks the flow of scope. Would you guys solve this
> > > problem by [?]

> > There are gals too here.
>
> It's a figure of speech.

Indeed. When I use the term ?guys? as a form of address, it's intended
to be gender-neutral.

> And besides, why would I want programming advice from a woman? lol.

No, that's not worth any laughter, especially because there are still
too many people who seriously think that way. It's totally unacceptable.
Please don't promote sexist garbage like that here.

-- 
 \        ?With Lisp or Forth, a master programmer has unlimited power |
  `\     and expressiveness. With Python, even a regular guy can reach |
_o__)                               for the stars.? ?Raymond Hettinger |
Ben Finney


From jearl at notengoamigos.org  Mon Aug 17 19:30:59 2009
From: jearl at notengoamigos.org (Jason Earl)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:30:59 -0600
Subject: A Exhibition Of Tech Geekers Incompetence: Emacs whitespace-mode
References: <61ef4451-d6b6-493b-b4a0-1822a901ca8d@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <87ocqerpak.fsf@notengoamigos.org>

Xah Lee  writes:

> Fresh out of the oven:
>
> ? How to use and setup Emacs's whitespace-mode
>   http://xahlee.org/emacs/whitespace-mode.html
>
>   Xah
> ? http://xahlee.org/

Xah,

I disagree with you about the usefulness of whitespace-mode's defaults,
and I certainly disagree with the need to use profanity on your usenet
post on the subject, but it is hard to argue against your
whitespace-mode.html page.  Very well done.

Thanks,
Jason


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Mon Aug 17 19:55:49 2009
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 16:55:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Converting DD MM YYYY into YYYY-MM-DD?
References: 
Message-ID: <4fa932a9-3f8e-4882-ba53-2715ba15c7cf@32g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 17, 3:26?pm, Gilles Ganault  wrote:
> Hello,
>
> ? ? ? ? I need to convert DD MM YYYY dates into the MySQL-friendly
> YYYY-MM-DD, and translate the month name from literal French to its
> numeric equivalent (eg. "Janvier" into "01").
>
> Here's an example:
>
> SELECT dateinscription, dateconnexion FROM membres LIMIT 1;
> 26 Mai 2007|17 Ao?t 2009 - 09h20
>
> I'd like to update the row into "2007-05-26" and "2009-08-17 09:20",
> respectively.
>
> What is the best way to do this in Python?
>
> Thank you.



From cmpython at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 19:58:28 2009
From: cmpython at gmail.com (Che M)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 16:58:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Converting DD MM YYYY into YYYY-MM-DD?
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 17, 6:26?pm, Gilles Ganault  wrote:
> Hello,
>
> ? ? ? ? I need to convert DD MM YYYY dates into the MySQL-friendly
> YYYY-MM-DD, and translate the month name from literal French to its
> numeric equivalent (eg. "Janvier" into "01").
>
> Here's an example:
>
> SELECT dateinscription, dateconnexion FROM membres LIMIT 1;
> 26 Mai 2007|17 Ao?t 2009 - 09h20
>
> I'd like to update the row into "2007-05-26" and "2009-08-17 09:20",
> respectively.
>
> What is the best way to do this in Python?
>
> Thank you.

Likely this is not the best way, but I would do, for
the first one (and the same idea for the second):

def convert(date):
    frenchdict = {'Mai':'May'} #etc...
    day = mystring[:2]
    month = frenchdict[ mystring[3:6] ]
    year = mystring[7:11]
    newdate = year+'-'+month+'-'+day
    print 'newdate is ', newdate



From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Mon Aug 17 19:59:21 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 16:59:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> 
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <56159dcf-b27d-418f-a8a4-0e4ebb71faa3@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 12, 6:52?am, Robert Dailey  wrote:
> On Aug 11, 3:40?pm, Bearophile  wrote:
>
> > Robert Dailey:
>
> > > This breaks the flow of scope. Would you guys solve this
> > > problem by moving failMsg into global scope?
> > > Perhaps through some other type of syntax?
>
> > There are gals too here.
> > This may help:http://docs.python.org/library/textwrap.html#textwrap.dedent
>
> > Bye,
> > bearophile
>
> It's a figure of speech. And besides, why would I want programming
> advice from a woman? lol. Thanks for the help.

Please consider having an attitude transplant.


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Mon Aug 17 20:05:28 2009
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:05:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Converting DD MM YYYY into YYYY-MM-DD?
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 17, 3:26?pm, Gilles Ganault  wrote:
> ? ? ? ? I need to convert DD MM YYYY dates into the MySQL-friendly
> YYYY-MM-DD, and translate the month name from literal French to its
> numeric equivalent (eg. "Janvier" into "01").
>
> Here's an example:
>
> SELECT dateinscription, dateconnexion FROM membres LIMIT 1;
> 26 Mai 2007|17 Ao?t 2009 - 09h20
>
> I'd like to update the row into "2007-05-26" and "2009-08-17 09:20",
> respectively.
>
> What is the best way to do this in Python?
>

Unfortunately, there isn't any string to date parsers in the built-
ins. Not to worry, though, since writing your own is easy, especially
if you use regular expressions from the re module. I suggest using an
RE such as:

    r"(?P\d+)\s+(?P\w+)\s+(?P\d+)"

If you want to translate month names to month numbers, then you need
some sort of dict to do so. Unfortunately, there isn't a terrific
standard for this, so your best bet is to put it in some file
somewhere, or even hard-code it in your code. (Month names won't
change over the lifetime of your program, so it's reasonable to put
them in your code somewhere.)

    month_names_to_numbers = {
        'jan':1, ... }

Once you have the year, month, and date, formatting it is trivial with
the built-in formatter.

    "%04d-%02d%02d %02d:%02d" % (year, month, date, hour, minute)

The variety of date formats out there have prevented a universal,
clean solution to this problem. Until we all start sticking to the
same conventions, we will always have to write code to translate dates
from one format to another.


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Mon Aug 17 20:14:56 2009
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:14:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Strongly typed list
References: 
	
	<7718922b-c72c-4a7e-90a3-098318063013@n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 17, 2:19?pm, ???? ???????  wrote:
> Please could you lead me to a way or a good IDE that makes developing
> huge projects in python more easier than what i found.Now i am using
> eclips. Actually it is very hard to remember all my classes methods
> and attributes or copy and paste them each time.
> Thanks very much for your interest
> Hani Almousli.....

You're relying on your IDE too much. You should rely on the code and
on your own notes. Your project should never get big because there is
no reason to throw in a bunch of useless code.

Think of the simplest way to get your job done. Then write that in
pseudo-code. Finally, run it in Python to see if it actually works.
You may be surprised with how far that will get you.

If you are having problems remembering the attributes and methods of
your instances, you are probably using too many attributes and
methods, their names are too long, or you have too many arguments to
each method. Keep the interfaces between parts as simple as possible.

If you still have a big project, then break it up into several
smaller, re-usable, and independent modules. Keep the interfaces as
simple as possible, and never write code that does anything but Duck-
Typing.


From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 20:18:33 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:18:33 -0700
Subject: Converting DD MM YYYY into YYYY-MM-DD?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't  
http://docs.python.org/library/datetime.html#datetime.datetime.strptime do  
this?

>>> import locale
>>> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, 'FR')
   'French_France.1252'
>>> date_str = '05 Mai 2009 - 18h25'
>>> fmt = '%d %B %Y - %Hh%M'
>>> date_obj = datetime.strptime(date_str, fmt)
>>> date_obj
   datetime.datetime(2009, 5, 5, 18, 25)
>>> date_obj.strftime('%Y-%m-%d %H:%M')
   '2009-05-05 18:25'

If you're using a recent enough version of Python (2.5 and up) I'd imagine  
that's the best way to do it?

On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 16:58:28 -0700, Che M  wrote:

> On Aug 17, 6:26?pm, Gilles Ganault  wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> ? ? ? ? I need to convert DD MM YYYY dates into the MySQL-friendly
>> YYYY-MM-DD, and translate the month name from literal French to its
>> numeric equivalent (eg. "Janvier" into "01").
>>
>> Here's an example:
>>
>> SELECT dateinscription, dateconnexion FROM membres LIMIT 1;
>> 26 Mai 2007|17 Ao?t 2009 - 09h20
>>
>> I'd like to update the row into "2007-05-26" and "2009-08-17 09:20",
>> respectively.
>>
>> What is the best way to do this in Python?
>>
>> Thank you.
>
> Likely this is not the best way, but I would do, for
> the first one (and the same idea for the second):
>
> def convert(date):
>     frenchdict = {'Mai':'May'} #etc...
>     day = mystring[:2]
>     month = frenchdict[ mystring[3:6] ]
>     year = mystring[7:11]
>     newdate = year+'-'+month+'-'+day
>     print 'newdate is ', newdate
>



-- 
Rami Chowdhury
"Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --  
Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)


From cmpython at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 20:19:59 2009
From: cmpython at gmail.com (Che M)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:19:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: GUI interface builder for python
References: 
	<21bca3cf-b2c7-47d7-9142-26c9fd015f92@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <02ec7cd9-e749-46d3-8b25-75d85794f292@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 17, 2:26?pm, axl456  wrote:
> On Aug 17, 1:59?am, "L at D@n"  wrote:
>
> > Which is the best GUI interface builder with drag and drop
> > capabilities.
> > I am using Ubuntu GNU/Linux.
> > Please help me.
> > Thank you.
>
> boa is really nice..

Boa (Boa Constructor) is really nice for wxPython GUI
work, but it has some bugs when using Linux that might
be dealbreakers for the user.  At least I have had
problems on Ubuntu 8.10 64 bit (but none or very few
with WinXP).

For those that might care, they are (as of now, Boa
0.6.1-4) are:

- The File -> New option is cut off in the menu.  But
that can be gotten around by using the Palette to choose
the same options.

- No gridlines in the Frame Designer (makes it harder
  to use)

- Some problems with the height of the rows in the
  Inspector, at least with 64 bit Ubuntu, some of which
  can be fixed with this workaround:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/boa-constructor/+bug/313952
  and there is a note there saying it has been patched
  in a 0.6.1-6 version in a Debian repository.  Haven't tried.

- I have had some random shutdowns, but not many.

Che


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Mon Aug 17 20:20:05 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:20:05 +1000
Subject: Converting DD MM YYYY into YYYY-MM-DD?
References: 
Message-ID: <8763cmkm6i.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Gilles Ganault  writes:

> 	I need to convert DD MM YYYY dates into the MySQL-friendly
> YYYY-MM-DD

This is not specific to MySQL. It is the common international standard
date representation format defined by ISO 8601.

> and translate the month name from literal French to its numeric
> equivalent (eg. "Janvier" into "01").

The simplest way to do this would be by a mapping from month-name to
month-number.

An obvious, and wrong, approach to this would be to hard-code the twelve
month names into your program data.

Instead, you should generate the map based on the standard library (in
this case, the underlying C standard library) locale database
:

>>> import locale
>>> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_TIME, "en_AU.UTF-8")
>>> months = dict(
...     (locale.nl_langinfo(getattr(locale, key)), i)
...     for (key, i) in (
...         ('MON_%(i)d' % vars(), i)
...         for i in range(1, 12+1)))

>>> import pprint
>>> pprint.pprint(months)
{'April': 4,
 'August': 8,
 'December': 12,
 'February': 2,
 'January': 1,
 'July': 7,
 'June': 6,
 'March': 3,
 'May': 5,
 'November': 11,
 'October': 10,
 'September': 9}

Of course, if you can avoid having to generate this mapping at all in
your program, that's best; see below.

> Here's an example:
>
> SELECT dateinscription, dateconnexion FROM membres LIMIT 1;
> 26 Mai 2007|17 Ao?t 2009 - 09h20
>
> I'd like to update the row into "2007-05-26" and "2009-08-17 09:20",
> respectively.

Storing a timestamp as a text attribute in a database seems perverse and
begging for trouble. Doesn't the database have a timestamp data type? Or
perhaps that's what you're trying to achieve?

> What is the best way to do this in Python?

The ?datetime.strptime? function will create a Python ?datetime? object
from a string, parsed according to a format
.

I don't know whether that function allows for month names in the current
locale (as set by ?locale.setlocale(locale.LC_TIME, ?)?). If it does,
that's the right way, since it doesn't involve explciitly generating the
mapping as shown above.

Use your preferred Python-to-database library to feed that ?datetime?
object directly to the database and store it in an attribute of the
native database timestamp type.

Then, format the timestamp value at the point of outputting that value,
instead of storing the text representation in the database.

-- 
 \         ?To succeed in the world it is not enough to be stupid, you |
  `\                            must also be well-mannered.? ?Voltaire |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From mensanator at aol.com  Mon Aug 17 20:40:42 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:40:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> 
	
	 
	<1fa1663b-a1cb-42d4-890b-0617b73e8816@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <9b8c48a3-b050-4a13-83f5-bc4185c62bdc@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 17, 4:06?pm, Carl Banks  wrote:
> On Aug 17, 10:03?am, Jean-Michel Pichavant 
> wrote:
>
> > I'm no English native, but I already heard women/men referring to a
> > group as "guys", no matter that group gender configuration. It's even
> > used for group composed exclusively of women. Moreover it looks like a
> > *very* friendly form, so there is really nothing to worry about it.
>
> I like how being very friendly means calling people after a guy who
> tried to blow up the English Parliament.

So?

>
> Carl Banks



From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 21:04:58 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 18:04:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> 
	
	 
	<1fa1663b-a1cb-42d4-890b-0617b73e8816@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> 
	<9b8c48a3-b050-4a13-83f5-bc4185c62bdc@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 17, 5:40?pm, Mensanator  wrote:
> On Aug 17, 4:06?pm, Carl Banks  wrote:
>
> > On Aug 17, 10:03?am, Jean-Michel Pichavant 
> > wrote:
>
> > > I'm no English native, but I already heard women/men referring to a
> > > group as "guys", no matter that group gender configuration. It's even
> > > used for group composed exclusively of women. Moreover it looks like a
> > > *very* friendly form, so there is really nothing to worry about it.
>
> > I like how being very friendly means calling people after a guy who
> > tried to blow up the English Parliament.
>
> So?

I also like how making an amusing pointless observation gets people
all huffy.

(BTW, lest anyone is not aware, that is the origin of the word "guy",
this was not some random association.)

Carl Banks


From magawake at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 21:33:29 2009
From: magawake at gmail.com (Mag Gam)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 21:33:29 -0400
Subject: unittest
In-Reply-To: <1cbd6f830908160625m5a8ffa9er7e34c203f30fca49@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1cbd6f830908142028v638a4c06jf0f859be712e724c@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<1cbd6f830908160625m5a8ffa9er7e34c203f30fca49@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1cbd6f830908171833p73109091ga612b2ec719d28eb@mail.gmail.com>

all, thank you very much!!!

Now my question is, how do I simulate a argv? My program has take an
argv, like "foo.py File" is necessary. How and where do I put it in my
test? I suppose in the setUp(), but I am not sure how.

any thoughts or ideas?

TIA

On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 9:25 AM, Mag Gam wrote:
> John:
>
> Well, this is actually a script which wraps around another application. :-)
> My goal is when I introduce a new feature I don't want to break old
> stuff so instead of me testing manually I want to build a framework of
> tests.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 11:37 PM, John Haggerty wrote:
>> This is an interesting question. I am just wondering: do you really have
>> that many features that it would be impossible to just have a shell script
>> run specific types of input or tests?
>>
>> When I did programming in the past for education they just had lists of
>> input data and we ran the program against the test data.
>>
>> I just get slightly confused when "test suites" start to have to apply?
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 9:28 PM, Mag Gam  wrote:
>>>
>>> I am writing an application which has many command line arguments.
>>> For example: foo.py -args "bar bee"
>>>
>>> I would like to create a test suit using unittest so when I add
>>> features to "foo.py" I don't want to break other things. I just heard
>>> about unittest and would love to use it for this type of thing.
>>>
>>> so my question is, when I do these tests do I have to code them into
>>> foo.py? I prefer having a footest.py which will run the regression
>>> tests. Any thoughts about this?
>>>
>>> TIA
>>> --
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>>
>


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Mon Aug 17 22:06:37 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 12:06:37 +1000
Subject: Converting DD MM YYYY into YYYY-MM-DD?
References: 
	
Message-ID: <87skfpkh8y.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Jonathan Gardner  writes:

> Unfortunately, there isn't any string to date parsers in the built-
> ins.

Fortunately, Python 2.5 or later has the ?datetime.strptime? function.

-- 
 \       ?You could augment an earwig to the point where it understood |
  `\     nuclear physics, but it would still be a very stupid thing to |
_o__)                              do!? ?The Doctor, _The Two Doctors_ |
Ben Finney


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Mon Aug 17 22:31:36 2009
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:31:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Converting DD MM YYYY into YYYY-MM-DD?
References: 
	<8763cmkm6i.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <91da9c54-a152-469b-81b0-65b99a532a1a@d4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 17, 5:20?pm, Ben Finney  wrote:
>
> Instead, you should generate the map based on the standard library (in
> this case, the underlying C standard library) locale database
> :
>

Does Windows support POSIX locales?



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Mon Aug 17 22:32:06 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 12:32:06 +1000
Subject: unittest
References: <1cbd6f830908142028v638a4c06jf0f859be712e724c@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<1cbd6f830908160625m5a8ffa9er7e34c203f30fca49@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <87ocqdkg2h.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Mag Gam  writes:

> all, thank you very much!!!
>
> Now my question is

You would do well to ask more about testing in Python on the focussed
forum for that topic, the ?testing-in-python? mailing list
.

-- 
 \        ?If it ain't bust don't fix it is a very sound principle and |
  `\      remains so despite the fact that I have slavishly ignored it |
_o__)                                     all my life.? ?Douglas Adams |
Ben Finney


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Mon Aug 17 22:36:24 2009
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:36:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Converting DD MM YYYY into YYYY-MM-DD?
References: 
	
	<87skfpkh8y.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 17, 7:06?pm, Ben Finney  wrote:
> Jonathan Gardner  writes:
> > Unfortunately, there isn't any string to date parsers in the built-
> > ins.
>
> Fortunately, Python 2.5 or later has the ?datetime.strptime? function.
>

Hate to weasel out of this one, but the language that strptime
provides is pretty limited. I don't find it useful except in the
trivial cases. Same goes for strftime. Also, both of these are very
Western European centric. Yes, Asian languages are supported but not
naturally.


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Mon Aug 17 22:38:34 2009
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:38:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Converting DD MM YYYY into YYYY-MM-DD?
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 17, 5:18?pm, "Rami Chowdhury"  wrote:
>
> >>> import locale
> >>> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, 'FR')

locale is nice when you only have a single thread.

Webservers aren't single threaded. You can't serve up one page for one
locale and then another in another locale without seeing very, very
weird behavior.


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Mon Aug 17 22:46:24 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 12:46:24 +1000
Subject: Converting DD MM YYYY into YYYY-MM-DD?
References: 
	<8763cmkm6i.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<91da9c54-a152-469b-81b0-65b99a532a1a@d4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87k511kfen.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Jonathan Gardner  writes:

> On Aug 17, 5:20?pm, Ben Finney  wrote:
> > Instead, you should generate the map based on the standard library (in
> > this case, the underlying C standard library) locale database
> > :
>
> Does Windows support POSIX locales?

If it does not, it should :-) since it addresses the problem in one
standard place. It would be foolish for Python to re-implement that
functionality when presumably the operating system already knows how to
map between dates and locale-specific text representations.

You'll need to check the operating system documentation for what
alternative it might provide.

-- 
 \                ?I got fired from my job the other day. They said my |
  `\          personality was weird. ? That's okay, I have four more.? |
_o__)                                       ?Bug-Eyed Earl, _Red Meat_ |
Ben Finney


From af2012 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 22:49:31 2009
From: af2012 at gmail.com (Allan Fong)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 22:49:31 -0400
Subject: New to python
Message-ID: <62763f750908171949q2d9029ddo1df40b8850f945b6@mail.gmail.com>

Hi! I'm fairly new to Python.  I understand the basics basics but I'm been
trying to write a simple python code that will let me read input data from
my USB drive and write it in a text file and I am so lost.  Can anyone help
or direct me to some resources?  Thank you!
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From rurpy at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 17 23:19:16 2009
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 20:19:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	
	<7f7c3e90-6026-411f-8b4a-829798819128@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
	<3fdfb992-058b-4017-b1b3-db3a9542b62e@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com> 
	<3d808272-6e56-4cf1-90df-8e5201df02df@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> 
	<13be5a11-612b-4fc5-a220-cc9aba2e4f8c@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <611687df-e755-4910-9042-5dab20de1a7e@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On 08/13/2009 08:46 AM, Paul Boddie wrote:
> On 13 Aug, 16:05, ru... at yahoo.com wrote:
>> All the above not withstanding, I too think a wiki is worth
>> trying.  But without doing a lot more than just "setting up
>> a wiki", I sadly believe even a python.org supported wiki
>> is doomed to failure.
>
> The ones on python.org seem to function reasonably well. I accept that
> they could be more aggressively edited, but this isn't done because
> there's a compromise between letting people contribute and keeping
> things moderately coherent, with the former being favoured. For other
> purposes, it would be quite acceptable to favour editorial control.

Yes, I agree.  I should have mentioned this as an exception
in my "wikis suck" diatribe.  Although it far better than
most wiki's I've seen, it is still pretty easy to find signs
of typical wiki-ness.  On the Documentation page my first
click was on AnnotableDocumentation: 404.  Second try,
DoumentationDiscussion: two very short paragraphs dated 2003.
After that I found some useful (in general though not what I
was looking for) information but not a good first impression.
(Well not exactly first, in fairness I have used other wiki
sections such as the Templating page and found them very
useful.)

> I won't argue that providing infrastructure solves a problem - that's
> precisely the kind of thing I was criticising when I noted that some
> people will readily criticise the choice of tools to do a job instead
> of focusing on the job that has to be done - and you need people who
> are reasonably competent editors, but Wiki solutions remove a lot of
> technical barriers. I'm not arguing for the flavour of Wiki which
> implies unfettered, anonymous access from everyone on the Internet,
> either: the kind of Wiki that detractors portray all Wiki solutions as
> being in order to further their super-special "it has to fit like a
> glove or it's totally unusable" software agenda. It's quite possible
> to have people with somewhat more privileges than others in order to
> keep the peace, and they don't all need to have an entrenched
> editorial interest: on the current python.org Wiki sites, most of the
> administrators don't have an active interest in most of the content,
> but they are able to exercise control when it's clear that some
> contributors aren't particularly interested in actually improving the
> content.
>
> As well as having an active community effort around the existing
> python.org Wiki sites, there are also people who are interested in
> improving these offerings. What worries me is that despite such
> activity and such interest, many people will continue to lament the
> lack of vitality (or whatever other metric) of the general python.org
> offering, whilst retaining a blind spot for the obvious contribution
> that the Wikis can make to such improvement efforts. I encourage
> people to use wiki.python.org a lot more, should they be looking to
> improve the wealth of information provided by the community.

Again, I agree with all of that.  But my main interest is
in improving the standard docs that are distributed with
Python and I question a wiki's role in that.

I took a look at the PHP docs last night which seem
pretty well done.  The User Comments looked rather as I
expected, there was useful info but most did not contain
documentation quality writing.  So if they are used as
a source for improving the docs, there clearly must be a
pretty large amount of editorial effort required, although
much of it is probably just filtering out comments that
don't provide any information appropriate for inclusion
in the docs.  They list 38 names under "User Note Maintainers"
(http://www.php.net/manual/en/preface.php)
Unfortunately I couldn't find a description of what these
people actually do.  I don't know how much work was involved
in removing the comments that are no longer there.

Again, I don't mean to sound like I am dissing the idea
of annotatable docs -- I think it is a good idea and will
provide useful supplementary information.

But I continue to question whether this will result in
improvements in the docs themselves (which is my main
interest) unless:

   1. The purpose of the wiki is clearly "marketed" as
soliciting suggestions, rewrites, etc destined ultimately
for inclusion in the docs.

   2. There is a dedicated core of doc-competent volunteers
focused on extracting, condensing and editing the user
comments and getting them into the docs, either directly
(if the volunteers are committers -- unlikely) or through
the existing tracker system.  And this still fails to
address the problems with the docs that aren't amenable
to fixing via the tracker system.  At least two of those
problems are:
1. Difficultly in making large organizational changes.
2. Prevalent opinion among doc approvers that the current
 excessively terse style is desirerable.


From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 23:22:05 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 20:22:05 -0700
Subject: Converting DD MM YYYY into YYYY-MM-DD?
In-Reply-To: <87k511kfen.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: 
	<91da9c54-a152-469b-81b0-65b99a532a1a@d4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<87k511kfen.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <200908172022.05517.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com>



----
My sample interactive session (locale.setlocale and all) was on a 32-bit Vista 
install of Python 2.5, so it works on that...

---
Rami Chowdhury
"A man with a watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches is never 
sure". -- Segal's Law
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)

On Monday 17 August 2009 19:46:24 Ben Finney wrote:
> Jonathan Gardner  writes:
> > On Aug 17, 5:20 pm, Ben Finney  wrote:
> > > Instead, you should generate the map based on the standard library (in
> > > this case, the underlying C standard library) locale database
> > >  > >#lo...>:
> >
> > Does Windows support POSIX locales?
>
> If it does not, it should :-) since it addresses the problem in one
> standard place. It would be foolish for Python to re-implement that
> functionality when presumably the operating system already knows how to
> map between dates and locale-specific text representations.
>
> You'll need to check the operating system documentation for what
> alternative it might provide.
>
> --
>  \                ?I got fired from my job the other day. They said my |
>   `\          personality was weird. ? That's okay, I have four more.? |
> _o__)                                       ?Bug-Eyed Earl, _Red Meat_ |
> Ben Finney



From clp2 at rebertia.com  Mon Aug 17 23:22:50 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 20:22:50 -0700
Subject: New to python
In-Reply-To: <62763f750908171949q2d9029ddo1df40b8850f945b6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <62763f750908171949q2d9029ddo1df40b8850f945b6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908172022ta35e948y8613e70463f28345@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 7:49 PM, Allan Fong wrote:
> Hi! I'm fairly new to Python.? I understand the basics basics but I'm been
> trying to write a simple python code that will let me read input data from
> my USB drive and write it in a text file and I am so lost.? Can anyone help
> or direct me to some resources?? Thank you!

Working with files: http://docs.python.org/library/stdtypes.html#file-objects

Reading+writing common file formats:
JSON: http://docs.python.org/library/json.html
CSV: http://docs.python.org/library/csv.html

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From roykty at gmail.com  Mon Aug 17 23:45:37 2009
From: roykty at gmail.com (roykty at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 20:45:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Text lost when I write file
Message-ID: 

Dear All,

I try to write text into a file but some text lost when the size of
the text content is over 32K.
Is that relate to the buffer of the python and any setting can solve
this problem??.

Regards
Roy


From mensanator at aol.com  Mon Aug 17 23:49:29 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 20:49:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> 
	
	 
	<1fa1663b-a1cb-42d4-890b-0617b73e8816@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> 
	<9b8c48a3-b050-4a13-83f5-bc4185c62bdc@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 17, 8:04?pm, Carl Banks  wrote:
> On Aug 17, 5:40?pm, Mensanator  wrote:
>
> > On Aug 17, 4:06?pm, Carl Banks  wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 17, 10:03?am, Jean-Michel Pichavant 
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > I'm no English native, but I already heard women/men referring to a
> > > > group as "guys", no matter that group gender configuration. It's even
> > > > used for group composed exclusively of women. Moreover it looks like a
> > > > *very* friendly form, so there is really nothing to worry about it.
>
> > > I like how being very friendly means calling people after a guy who
> > > tried to blow up the English Parliament.
>
> > So?
>
> I also like how making an amusing pointless observation

Pointless, yes, but what was amusing abot the observation?

> gets people all huffy.

That wasn't huffy. You want to see huffy, make a wisecrack
comparing mothballs to Zyklon B, you'll REALLY get a load
of huffy replies.

>
> (BTW, lest anyone is not aware, that is the origin of the word "guy",

It most certainly is not. Maybe the origin of that
word's useage as a genric reference to a male, but
you didn't say that.

> this was not some random association.)

Penny for the guy?

>
> Carl Banks



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Aug 17 23:56:58 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 12:56:58 +0900
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
In-Reply-To: <20090817194155.8740.902674574.divmod.xquotient.69@localhost.localdomain>
References: 	<02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>			<4434e799-d907-49ca-93ee-a4be3276f9c2@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>	<3c0abe16-f05a-4c5f-9773-f813bc424f14@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>		
	<20090817194155.8740.902674574.divmod.xquotient.69@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: 

exarkun at twistedmatrix.com wrote:

> There's a lot of things in Python that I don't strictly *need*.  That 
> doesn't mean that they wouldn't be welcome if I could have them. Getting 
> rid of the range/xrange dichotomy would improve things.

The developers agreed a couple of years ago. Starting using 3.1 if you 
want this.

Since 'range' could refer to a user-defined object, rather than the 
builtin function, there is no way the interpreter should substitute 
'xrange'.

tjr



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Aug 18 00:06:50 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:06:50 +0900
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>	<269572f2-5968-479b-a7e6-d3354a769250@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<60bd3cab-1cab-4677-b640-8d126343615a@d9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>		
	
Message-ID: 

Nathan Keel wrote:

> idiot ... asshole 
> absolutely clueless ... idiot ...incredibly
> arrogant, yet incredibly clueless.

To me, such name-calling is as obnoxious as the intended target.

tjr




From clp2 at rebertia.com  Tue Aug 18 00:09:34 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 21:09:34 -0700
Subject: Text lost when I write file
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908172109m906fb7ape3d02a8a0c4bba53@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 8:45 PM, roykty at gmail.com wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> I try to write text into a file but some text lost when the size of
> the text content is over 32K.
> Is that relate to the buffer of the python and any setting can solve
> this problem??.

Please show us the code you're using.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Aug 18 00:23:26 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:23:26 +1000
Subject: Text lost when I write file
References: 
	
Message-ID: <87fxbpkawx.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Chris Rebert  writes:

> On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 8:45 PM, roykty at gmail.com wrote:
> > I try to write text into a file but some text lost when the size of
> > the text content is over 32K.
> > Is that relate to the buffer of the python and any setting can solve
> > this problem??.
>
> Please show us the code you're using.

Not the whole danged thing, of course; please show a minimal executable
example that demonstrates the behaviour.

-- 
 \           ?I do not believe in immortality of the individual, and I |
  `\        consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no |
_o__)  superhuman authority behind it.? ?Albert Einstein, letter, 1953 |
Ben Finney


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Aug 18 00:34:57 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 18 Aug 2009 04:34:57 GMT
Subject: Diversity in Python (was Re: Need cleanup advice for multiline 
	string)
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:31:51 -0700, Chris Rebert wrote:

>> Oh come on, one newbie making an off-color joke is not any sort of
>> reflection of the community as a whole.
>>
>> Anyway it's pretty naive to expect what is now a large community to
>> avoid bad eggs altogether. ?Price you pay for popularity.
> 
> Agreed on both points, but the lack of any reprimanding for making said
> inappropriate joke /would/ reflect badly on the community. Fortunately,
> said person's behavior has now been condemned by virtue of this thread;
> it's a step in the right direction.

Pardon me, but he has been slapped, a number of times. Check the original 
thread, you'll see that the OP was slapped for his stupid joke, then 
slapped again for another dismissive comment after the first reprimand.

You might argue he wasn't slapped *enough*, but that's another story. 
Personally, I thought he was either trolling for a reaction, or he was an 
old-fuddy-duddy (regardless of biological age), and either way reacting 
to his comments would just draw attention to something which is best 
dealt with with a cold-shoulder. Reinforce the good behaviour, shun the 
bad.

The comments were made a week ago -- why the sudden flurry of attention?



-- 
Steven


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 00:35:48 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 21:35:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> 
	
	 
	<1fa1663b-a1cb-42d4-890b-0617b73e8816@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> 
	<9b8c48a3-b050-4a13-83f5-bc4185c62bdc@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com> 
	 
	
Message-ID: <86bb893a-344a-4c7b-9fc6-67d9f42c7607@q14g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 17, 8:49?pm, Mensanator  wrote:
> On Aug 17, 8:04 pm, Carl Banks  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 17, 5:40 pm, Mensanator  wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 17, 4:06 pm, Carl Banks  wrote:
>
> > > > On Aug 17, 10:03 am, Jean-Michel Pichavant 
> > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > I'm no English native, but I already heard women/men referring to a
> > > > > group as "guys", no matter that group gender configuration. It's even
> > > > > used for group composed exclusively of women. Moreover it looks like a
> > > > > *very* friendly form, so there is really nothing to worry about it.
>
> > > > I like how being very friendly means calling people after a guy who
> > > > tried to blow up the English Parliament.
>
> > > So?
>
> > I also like how making an amusing pointless observation
>
> Pointless, yes, but what was amusing abot the observation?

The irony that in being friendly that you're calling someone a
terrorist.  I guess I shouldn't have expected you to get it.


> > gets people all huffy.
>
> That wasn't huffy. You want to see huffy, make a wisecrack
> comparing mothballs to Zyklon B, you'll REALLY get a load
> of huffy replies.
>
> > (BTW, lest anyone is not aware, that is the origin of the word "guy",
>
> It most certainly is not.

My dictionary disagrees with you.


> Maybe the origin of that
> word's useage as a genric reference to a male, but
> you didn't say that.
>
> > this was not some random association.)
>
> Penny for the guy?

Probably that phrase was part of the word's gradual common adoption.


Carl Banks


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Aug 18 00:37:33 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 18 Aug 2009 04:37:33 GMT
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<1fa1663b-a1cb-42d4-890b-0617b73e8816@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<9b8c48a3-b050-4a13-83f5-bc4185c62bdc@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 18:04:58 -0700, Carl Banks wrote:

> On Aug 17, 5:40?pm, Mensanator  wrote:
>> On Aug 17, 4:06?pm, Carl Banks  wrote:
>>
>> > On Aug 17, 10:03?am, Jean-Michel Pichavant 
>> > wrote:
>>
>> > > I'm no English native, but I already heard women/men referring to a
>> > > group as "guys", no matter that group gender configuration. It's
>> > > even used for group composed exclusively of women. Moreover it
>> > > looks like a *very* friendly form, so there is really nothing to
>> > > worry about it.
>>
>> > I like how being very friendly means calling people after a guy who
>> > tried to blow up the English Parliament.
>>
>> So?
> 
> I also like how making an amusing pointless observation gets people all
> huffy.
> 
> (BTW, lest anyone is not aware, that is the origin of the word "guy",
> this was not some random association.)


Yes, apparently the slang term "guy" for "man" (and these days, "person") 
was derived from Guy Fawkes:

http://www.worldwidewords.org/weirdwords/ww-guy1.htm


but the name itself is much older, and comes from Old German for "wood" 
or "warrior". In old French, it was "Gy", and in Italian (and presumably 
Dutch) it is "Guido".

http://www.thinkbabynames.com/meaning/1/Guy
http://www.blurtit.com/q113276.html


You'll also note that "guy" the noun has a number of meanings:

http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=guy


I don't know if there's any point to all this, but it's interesting, even 
if off-topic.




-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Aug 18 00:37:46 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 18 Aug 2009 04:37:46 GMT
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<269572f2-5968-479b-a7e6-d3354a769250@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<60bd3cab-1cab-4677-b640-8d126343615a@d9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<7xtz06cg7m.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 13:56:13 -0700, Paul Rubin wrote:

> Python 3.0 went overboard by actually removing the cmp argument and
> requiring use of the key argument.  That requires various kludges if the
> key is, say, a tree structure that has to be recursively compared with
> another such structure.  Maybe then can bring back cmp someday.

I'm having trouble understanding this, which may be my weakness rather 
than yours, but could you give an actual (simplified?) example I can run, 
where cmp would work but key wouldn't?



-- 
Steven


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Aug 18 00:45:39 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 17 Aug 2009 21:45:39 -0700
Subject: Diversity in Python (was Re: Need cleanup advice for multiline 
	string)
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
Steven D'Aprano   wrote:
>
>The comments were made a week ago -- why the sudden flurry of attention?

Mainly an opportunity to flog the new diversity list.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I saw `cout' being shifted "Hello world" times to the left and stopped
right there."  --Steve Gonedes


From naveen.garg at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 00:45:57 2009
From: naveen.garg at gmail.com (naveen)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 21:45:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: define class over 2 files
Message-ID: <7de550a5-64af-4f40-a7fc-e3c449d0dce9@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

Is it possible to split up a class definition over multiple files?


From contact at xavierho.com  Tue Aug 18 00:58:58 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:58:58 +1000
Subject: define class over 2 files
In-Reply-To: <7de550a5-64af-4f40-a7fc-e3c449d0dce9@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: <7de550a5-64af-4f40-a7fc-e3c449d0dce9@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908172158l760256rc703d7d87f04e509@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 2:45 PM, naveen  wrote:

> Is it possible to split up a class definition over multiple files?
> -


Answer in short, I don't think so.

 Now why would you want to do that?

There is another solution - have a main class for shared methods, and have
other classes [in different files, perhaps] inherit from it.

Cheers,
Xav
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From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Aug 18 01:07:14 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 15:07:14 +1000
Subject: Diversity in Python
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: <87bpmdk8vx.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Steven D'Aprano  writes:

> The comments were made a week ago -- why the sudden flurry of
> attention?

In my case, it's because I was ignoring the thread in which they were
made. The change of subject drew them to my attention, where I saw the
community response was (IMO) insufficient at the time, so I acted to
correct that.

Now that the community response is (IMO) more appropriate, there's no
further need to beat on those particular comments. Additional
transgressions could warrant additional responses, of course.

-- 
 \     ?I got some new underwear the other day. Well, new to me.? ?Emo |
  `\                                                           Philips |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From ariel.balter at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 01:27:57 2009
From: ariel.balter at gmail.com (abalter)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 22:27:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Data visualization in Python
References: 
Message-ID: <4121b29c-ebac-4f8f-b6af-e9789564cb4d@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 17, 12:10?pm, kj  wrote:
> I'm looking for a good Python package for visualizing
> scientific/statistical data. ?(FWIW, the OS I'm interested in is
> Mac OS X).
>
> The users of this package will be experimental biologists with
> little programming experience (but currently learning Python).
>
> (I normally visualize data using R or Mathematica, but I don't want
> to saddle these novices with the task of learning yet another
> language.)
>
> TIA!
>
> kynn

You might also look into the pythonxy superpackage, http://www.pythonxy.com/foreword.php
and http://enthought.com.


From indermeet.gandhi at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 01:28:17 2009
From: indermeet.gandhi at gmail.com (inder)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 22:28:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: XML parsing with python
References:  
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 17, 8:31?pm, John Posner  wrote:
> > Use the iterparse() function of the xml.etree.ElementTree package.
>
> >http://effbot.org/zone/element-iterparse.htm
> >http://codespeak.net/lxml/parsing.html#iterparse-and-iterwalk
>
> > Stefan
>
> iterparse() is too big a hammer for this purpose, IMO. How about this:
>
> ? from xml.etree.ElementTree import ElementTree
> ? tree = ElementTree(None, "myfile.xml")
> ? for elem in tree.findall('//book/title'):
> ? ? ? print elem.text
>
> -John

Thanks for the prompt reply .

I feel let me try using iterparse. Will it be slower compared to SAX
parsing ... ultimately I will have a huge xml file to parse ?


Another question , I will also need to validate my xml against xsd . I
would like to do this validation through the parsing tool  itself .

Does there exist an Unix utility which validates or even a python
library call would be fine  ?

Thanks in advance


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Aug 18 01:51:55 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 18 Aug 2009 05:51:55 GMT
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<1fa1663b-a1cb-42d4-890b-0617b73e8816@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<9b8c48a3-b050-4a13-83f5-bc4185c62bdc@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<86bb893a-344a-4c7b-9fc6-67d9f42c7607@q14g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 21:35:48 -0700, Carl Banks wrote:

>> > > > I like how being very friendly means calling people after a guy
>> > > > who tried to blow up the English Parliament.
>>
>> > > So?
>>
>> > I also like how making an amusing pointless observation
>>
>> Pointless, yes, but what was amusing abot the observation?
> 
> The irony that in being friendly that you're calling someone a
> terrorist.  


Please, the term is Freedom Fighter.



> I guess I shouldn't have expected you to get it.

Ouch! Nasty!


Is there something in the air today? People are short-tempered and 
grouchy all over the place... 



-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Tue Aug 18 01:57:46 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 18 Aug 2009 05:57:46 GMT
Subject: define class over 2 files
References: <7de550a5-64af-4f40-a7fc-e3c449d0dce9@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 21:45:57 -0700, naveen wrote:

> Is it possible to split up a class definition over multiple files?

Not exactly, but you can do variations of this:


In file A.py, create:

class Parent:
    def method(self):
        return "Method"


In file B.py, do this:

import A
class Child(B.parent):
    def another_method(self):
        return "Another Method"


Now your class Child has two methods, method() and another_method().


Similarly, you can do this:

# File A.py

def function(x, y):
    return x+y  # or something more complicated


# File B.py

import A

def MyClass(object):
    def func(self, x, y):
        return A.function(x, y)





-- 
Steven


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Tue Aug 18 02:24:24 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 08:24:24 +0200
Subject: XML parsing with python
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <4a8a4918$0$32672$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>

inder wrote:
> On Aug 17, 8:31 pm, John Posner  wrote:
>>> Use the iterparse() function of the xml.etree.ElementTree package.
>>> http://effbot.org/zone/element-iterparse.htm
>>> http://codespeak.net/lxml/parsing.html#iterparse-and-iterwalk
>>> Stefan
>> iterparse() is too big a hammer for this purpose, IMO. How about this:
>>
>>   from xml.etree.ElementTree import ElementTree
>>   tree = ElementTree(None, "myfile.xml")
>>   for elem in tree.findall('//book/title'):
>>       print elem.text
>>
>> -John
> 
> Thanks for the prompt reply .
> 
> I feel let me try using iterparse. Will it be slower compared to SAX
> parsing ... ultimately I will have a huge xml file to parse ?

If you use the cElementTree module, it may even be faster.


> Another question , I will also need to validate my xml against xsd . I
> would like to do this validation through the parsing tool  itself .

In that case, you can use lxml instead of ElementTree.

http://codespeak.net/lxml/

Stefan


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Tue Aug 18 02:32:59 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 08:32:59 +0200
Subject: XML parsing with python
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <4a8a4b1c$0$32679$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>

John Posner wrote:
>> Use the iterparse() function of the xml.etree.ElementTree package.
> 
> iterparse() is too big a hammer for this purpose, IMO. How about this:
> 
>  from xml.etree.ElementTree import ElementTree
>  tree = ElementTree(None, "myfile.xml")
>  for elem in tree.findall('//book/title'):
>      print elem.text

Is that really so much better than an iterparse() version?

  from xml.etree.ElementTree import ElementTree

  for _, elem in ElementTree.iterparse("myfile.xml"):
      if elem.tag == 'book':
          print elem.findtext('title')
          elem.clear()

Stefan


From deets at nospam.web.de  Tue Aug 18 02:46:10 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 08:46:10 +0200
Subject: Strongly typed list
In-Reply-To: <7718922b-c72c-4a7e-90a3-098318063013@n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	<7718922b-c72c-4a7e-90a3-098318063013@n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7ev11jF1jj25dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

???? ??????? schrieb:
> Please could you lead me to a way or a good IDE that makes developing
> huge projects in python more easier than what i found.Now i am using
> eclips. Actually it is very hard to remember all my classes methods
> and attributes or copy and paste them each time.
> Thanks very much for your interest
> Hani Almousli.....

There are many really big projects written in Python - none of them with 
the aid of intelli-sense.

What python lacks in that respect due to it's dynamic typing, it more 
than compensates by being faster to develop and having to write much 
less code.

Diez


From sreejithemk at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 02:46:28 2009
From: sreejithemk at gmail.com (Sreejith K)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 23:46:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Changing Python Opcodes
Message-ID: <1e3f4885-f908-4a45-8f7a-1a45e9d91b27@n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I know this is not the best way to do it. But I have to do it at least
to make it *hard* to decompile the python bytecode.

I want to distribute a software written in Python without the source.
So I compiled Python from source changing some opcode values (Taking
care of HAVE_ARGUMENT value) and distributed with the .pyc files. It
did compile but when I'm installing additional python modules using
easy_install, the import fails with a segmentation fault. It worked in
a 32 bit Centos 5.2 but not on 64bit Centos 5.2. I am using python
2.5.4 source.

I changed only the Include/opcode.py source with my jumbled opcode
values. Was I correct here ? I would like to know what all changes to
be made as to successfully compile a custom python with different
opcode values ?


From nospam at nospam.com  Tue Aug 18 02:59:57 2009
From: nospam at nospam.com (Gilles Ganault)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 08:59:57 +0200
Subject: Converting DD MM YYYY into YYYY-MM-DD?
References: 
	
Message-ID: <3vjk85hapd0nuigp09qrihm6e7faliompd@4ax.com>

Thanks everyone for the help. This script is just a one-shot thingie
on my work host, not as a web script or anything professional.

On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:05:28 -0700 (PDT), Jonathan Gardner
 wrote:
>Unfortunately, there isn't any string to date parsers in the built-
>ins. Not to worry, though, since writing your own is easy, especially
>if you use regular expressions from the re module. I suggest using an
>RE such as:
>
>    r"(?P\d+)\s+(?P\w+)\s+(?P\d+)"

I've never seen regexes like this. I'm curious to know what those
mean:

r = Unicode?

(?P = ? means that it shouldn't be greedy, what about P?


From naveen.garg at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 03:04:56 2009
From: naveen.garg at gmail.com (naveen)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 00:04:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: define class over 2 files
References: <7de550a5-64af-4f40-a7fc-e3c449d0dce9@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <6a490ec8-3536-4508-afd4-90a5cf9317b5@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

> > Is it possible to split up a class definition over multiple files?
>
> Not exactly, but you can do variations of this:
... [subclass a class]
> Steven

Thanks Steven.
I guess I will just preprocess the script:

cat partA.py > class.py
cat partB >> class.py
python class.py




From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Aug 18 03:10:50 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:10:50 +1000
Subject: Converting DD MM YYYY into YYYY-MM-DD?
References: 
	
	<3vjk85hapd0nuigp09qrihm6e7faliompd@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <874os5k35x.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Gilles Ganault  writes:

> Thanks everyone for the help. This script is just a one-shot thingie
> on my work host, not as a web script or anything professional.
>
> On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:05:28 -0700 (PDT), Jonathan Gardner
>  wrote:
> >    r"(?P\d+)\s+(?P\w+)\s+(?P\d+)"
>
> I've never seen regexes like this. I'm curious to know what those
> mean:

Luckily, you have access to the documentation to find out.

> r = Unicode?



> (?P = ? means that it shouldn't be greedy, what about P?



-- 
 \      ?We reserve the right to serve refuse to anyone.? ?restaurant, |
  `\                                                             Japan |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Aug 18 03:13:17 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:13:17 +1000
Subject: define class over 2 files
References: <7de550a5-64af-4f40-a7fc-e3c449d0dce9@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6a490ec8-3536-4508-afd4-90a5cf9317b5@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87zl9xiohe.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

naveen  writes:

> I guess I will just preprocess the script:
> 
> cat partA.py > class.py
> cat partB >> class.py
> python class.py
> 

This, to me, is a programming smell; not necessarily bad, but an
indicator of bad practice. What is the problem you're trying to solve?
I'll wager there are better ways to address it.

-- 
 \           ?Laugh and the world laughs with you; snore and you sleep |
  `\                                                alone.? ?anonymous |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From deets at nospam.web.de  Tue Aug 18 03:19:31 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 09:19:31 +0200
Subject: Changing Python Opcodes
In-Reply-To: <1e3f4885-f908-4a45-8f7a-1a45e9d91b27@n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1e3f4885-f908-4a45-8f7a-1a45e9d91b27@n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7ev303F2ib9r1U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Sreejith K schrieb:
> Hi,
> 
> I know this is not the best way to do it. But I have to do it at least
> to make it *hard* to decompile the python bytecode.
> 
> I want to distribute a software written in Python without the source.
> So I compiled Python from source changing some opcode values (Taking
> care of HAVE_ARGUMENT value) and distributed with the .pyc files. It
> did compile but when I'm installing additional python modules using
> easy_install, the import fails with a segmentation fault. It worked in
> a 32 bit Centos 5.2 but not on 64bit Centos 5.2. I am using python
> 2.5.4 source.
> 
> I changed only the Include/opcode.py source with my jumbled opcode
> values. Was I correct here ? I would like to know what all changes to
> be made as to successfully compile a custom python with different
> opcode values ?

As you are the one who modified your Python, you are the one responsible 
for debugging that - noone else can.

Did you try installing the egg *without* pyc-files in there? Because 
naturally those shouldn't work. They shouldn't crash the interpreter 
either, but then again - you *did* modify it.

Diez


From sreejithemk at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 03:42:10 2009
From: sreejithemk at gmail.com (Sreejith K)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 00:42:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Changing Python Opcodes
References: <1e3f4885-f908-4a45-8f7a-1a45e9d91b27@n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<7ev303F2ib9r1U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <7cfe9433-37a6-456e-8a77-b0a8f17e5f23@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 18, 12:19?pm, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:

> Did you try installing the egg *without* pyc-files in there? Because
> naturally those shouldn't work. They shouldn't crash the interpreter
> either, but then again - you *did* modify it.

Hi Diez, thanks for the immediate reply :)

I installed the setuptools using ez_setup.py script. Then I used the
easy_install to install additional modules. When importing the
installed modules segfault occurs. The module I installed was
TurboGears.

Then I thought that it happened maybe because the easy_install script
is downloading eggs for original python (I'm not sure if it is what
easy_install is doing). So I also tried to install the module by
downloading all the dependencies (tar.gz files) and building it. Even
then segfault occured. Is there any problem in changing only the
opcodes.py file ? I did something horribly wrong here. Hope someone
will help...


From nospam at nospam.com  Tue Aug 18 03:49:41 2009
From: nospam at nospam.com (Gilles Ganault)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 09:49:41 +0200
Subject: Converting DD MM YYYY into YYYY-MM-DD?
References: 
	
	<3vjk85hapd0nuigp09qrihm6e7faliompd@4ax.com>
	<874os5k35x.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <10nk85le4ghbb22ogjuta10cneir6pcc8p@4ax.com>

On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:10:50 +1000, Ben Finney
 wrote:
>Luckily, you have access to the documentation to find out.

I never used groups before. Thanks for showing me.

At this point, the script is almost done, but the regex fails  if the
month contains accented characters (eg. "Ao?t", but fine if eg.
"Jan").

Adding a line to load the French locale doesn't help :-/

Any idea what I could do to keep the regex happy?

Thank you.

==============
import re
import apsw
import locale

#In case error due to accent in month name, but no soup 4 U
locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, 'FR')

connection=apsw.Connection("test.sqlite")
cursor=connection.cursor()

re_inscription =
re.compile(r"(?P\d+)\s+(?P\w+)\s+(?P\d+)")

sql = 'SELECT id,dateinscription,dateconnexion FROM mytable'
rows=list(cursor.execute(sql))
for row in rows:
	dateinscription = row[1]
	dateconnexion = row[2]
	
	#Prints OK
	print dateinscription
	
	m = re_inscription.search(dateinscription)
	if m:
		day = m.group("date")
		month = m.group("month")
		year = m.group("year")
		print "%s-%s-%s" % (year,month,day)
	else:
		print "No go"
==============


From weinhand at unileoben.ac.at  Tue Aug 18 03:59:20 2009
From: weinhand at unileoben.ac.at (Weinhandl Herbert)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 09:59:20 +0200
Subject: Data visualization in Python
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4a8a5f86$0$12126$3b214f66@aconews.univie.ac.at>

Am 2009-08-17 21:10, schrieb kj:
> I'm looking for a good Python package for visualizing
> scientific/statistical data.  (FWIW, the OS I'm interested in is
> Mac OS X).
>
> The users of this package will be experimental biologists with
> little programming experience (but currently learning Python).

SciDAVis is a free application for Scientific Data Analysis and Visualization.

     http://scidavis.sourceforge.net/


Veusz is a scientific plotting and graphing package written in Python.

     http://home.gna.org/veusz/


Open source data visualization and analysis for novice and experts. Data mining 
through visual programming or Python scripting. Extensions for bioinformatics 
and text mining. Comprehensive, flexible and fast.

     http://www.ailab.si/orange/

> (I normally visualize data using R or Mathematica, but I don't want
> to saddle these novices with the task of learning yet another
> language.)


hth

Herbert


From nitebirdz at sacredchaos.com  Tue Aug 18 04:07:32 2009
From: nitebirdz at sacredchaos.com (nitebirdz at sacredchaos.com)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:07:32 +0200
Subject: Using a Callback Function - ftplib
In-Reply-To: 
References: <76875cdd-30c4-4a3b-8a16-d0e2061765d7@v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<1euafoc8zeh0q.91hedjv5ueuh$.dlg@40tude.net>
	
Message-ID: <20090818080731.GA12396@sevilla.sacredchaos.com>

On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 11:10:25AM -0700, seldan24 wrote:
> 
> I didn't even notice the higher level methods.  I changed the
> retrieval line to:
> 
> ftp.nlst("testfile*.txt")
> 
> This works great.  The result is even captured in an array.  I really
> have no idea what the difference between a LIST and NLST is within
> FTP.  Never delved that deep into it.  I did notice that an NLST will
> return a specific FTP code if a file doesn't exist, whereas a LIST
> doesn't.  So, I ended up using NLST as that'll generate an
> ftplib.error_perm exception.  Based on if the job cares if a file is
> not available or not (some do, some don't), I'll either exit, or
> continue on with the file loop.
> 

The following thread from a NetBSD mailing list may help clarify this
issue:

http://mail-index.netbsd.org/netbsd-users/2001/01/30/0016.html


NLST returns a machine-readable list of names, while LIST returns a
human-readable list.  Hene the presence of the FTP code in the case of
NLST.  



From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 04:11:20 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 01:11:20 -0700
Subject: Converting DD MM YYYY into YYYY-MM-DD?
In-Reply-To: <10nk85le4ghbb22ogjuta10cneir6pcc8p@4ax.com>
References: 
	<874os5k35x.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<10nk85le4ghbb22ogjuta10cneir6pcc8p@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <200908180111.20975.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com>

Could you let me know which platform this is on (Windows, *nix)? It may be a 
locale encoding issue -- the locale.setlocale() function allows the second 
argument to be a tuple of (locale_code, encoding), as below:

locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, ('FR', 'UTF-8'))

Since this is for a one-shot (and presumably threading-agnostic) program, and 
a fairly trivially formatted date-string, I would suggest using 
datetime.strptime 
(http://docs.python.org/library/datetime.html#datetime.datetime.strptime) and 
not regular expressions (which IIRC have Issues with non-ASCII characters). 


----
Rami Chowdhury
"Ninety percent of everything is crap." -- Sturgeon's Law
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)

On Tuesday 18 August 2009 00:49:41 Gilles Ganault wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:10:50 +1000, Ben Finney
>
>  wrote:
> >Luckily, you have access to the documentation to find out.
>
> I never used groups before. Thanks for showing me.
>
> At this point, the script is almost done, but the regex fails  if the
> month contains accented characters (eg. "Ao?t", but fine if eg.
> "Jan").
>
> Adding a line to load the French locale doesn't help :-/
>
> Any idea what I could do to keep the regex happy?
>
> Thank you.
>
> ==============
> import re
> import apsw
> import locale
>
> #In case error due to accent in month name, but no soup 4 U
> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, 'FR')
>
> connection=apsw.Connection("test.sqlite")
> cursor=connection.cursor()
>
> re_inscription =
> re.compile(r"(?P\d+)\s+(?P\w+)\s+(?P\d+)")
>
> sql = 'SELECT id,dateinscription,dateconnexion FROM mytable'
> rows=list(cursor.execute(sql))
> for row in rows:
> 	dateinscription = row[1]
> 	dateconnexion = row[2]
>
> 	#Prints OK
> 	print dateinscription
>
> 	m = re_inscription.search(dateinscription)
> 	if m:
> 		day = m.group("date")
> 		month = m.group("month")
> 		year = m.group("year")
> 		print "%s-%s-%s" % (year,month,day)
> 	else:
> 		print "No go"
> ==============



From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Aug 18 04:12:06 2009
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:12:06 +0200
Subject: Mercurial migration: help needed
Message-ID: <4A8A6256.1030009@v.loewis.de>

This is a repost from two weeks ago. It didn't get much feedback last
time. I still keep trying, reposting to python-list also this time.

In this thread, I'd like to collect things that ought to be done
but where Dirkjan has indicated that he would prefer if somebody else
did it.

Item 1
------
The first item is build identification. If you want to work
on this, please either provide a patch (for trunk and/or py3k), or
(if you are a committer) create a subversion branch.

It seems that Barry and I agree that for the maintenance branches,
sys.subversion should be frozen, so we need actually two sets of
patches: one that removes sys.subversion entirely, and the other that
freezes the branch to the respective one, and freezes the subversion
revision to None.

The patch should consider what Dirkjan proposes as the branching
strategy: clones to separate 2.x and 3.x, as well as for features,
and branches with the clones for releases and maintenance (see the
PEP for details).

Anybody working on this should have good knowledge of the Python source
code, Mercurial, and either autoconf or Visual Studio (preferably both).

Item 2
------

The second item is line conversion hooks. Dj Gilcrease has posted a
solution which he considers a hack himself. Mark Hammond has also
volunteered, but it seems some volunteer needs to be "in charge",
keeping track of a proposed solution until everybody agrees that it
is a good solution. It may be that two solutions are necessary: a
short-term one, that operates as a hook and has limitations, and
a long-term one, that improves the hook system of Mercurial to
implement the proper functionality (which then might get shipped
with Mercurial in a cross-platform manner).

Regards,
Martin



From nospam at nospam.com  Tue Aug 18 04:19:53 2009
From: nospam at nospam.com (Gilles Ganault)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:19:53 +0200
Subject: Converting DD MM YYYY into YYYY-MM-DD?
References: 
	<874os5k35x.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<10nk85le4ghbb22ogjuta10cneir6pcc8p@4ax.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 01:11:20 -0700, Rami Chowdhury
 wrote:
>Could you let me know which platform this is on (Windows, *nix)? It may be a 
>locale encoding issue -- the locale.setlocale() function allows the second 
>argument to be a tuple of (locale_code, encoding), as below:
>
>locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, ('FR', 'UTF-8'))

It's on XP, and I'm using ActivePython 2.5.1.1.
http://www.activestate.com/activepython/

Python doesn't like the above:

#locale.Error: unsupported locale setting
locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, ('FR', 'UTF-8'))

Maybe it was introduced in more recent versions of Python?

>Since this is for a one-shot (and presumably threading-agnostic) program, and 
>a fairly trivially formatted date-string, I would suggest using 
>datetime.strptime 
>(http://docs.python.org/library/datetime.html#datetime.datetime.strptime) and 
>not regular expressions (which IIRC have Issues with non-ASCII characters). 

If the regex library can only handle basic latin characters, I'll wait
until a script I'm running is done, and I'll upgrade to the 2.6.2.2 to
see how it goes.

Thank you.


From dirkjan at ochtman.nl  Tue Aug 18 04:20:15 2009
From: dirkjan at ochtman.nl (Dirkjan Ochtman)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:20:15 +0200
Subject: [Python-Dev] Mercurial migration: help needed
In-Reply-To: <4A8A6256.1030009@v.loewis.de>
References: <4A8A6256.1030009@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 10:12, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote:
> In this thread, I'd like to collect things that ought to be done
> but where Dirkjan has indicated that he would prefer if somebody else
> did it.

I think the most important item here is currently the win32text stuff.
Mark Hammond said he would work on this; Mark, when do you have time
for this? Then I could set apart some time for it as well.

Have stalled a bit on the fine-grained branch processing, hope to move
that forward tomorrow.

Cheers,

Dirkjan


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Tue Aug 18 04:28:25 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 01:28:25 -0700
Subject: conversion of Python object to perl object
In-Reply-To: <229114.26317.qm@web7901.mail.in.yahoo.com>
References: <229114.26317.qm@web7901.mail.in.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908180128i48ac0d77sa04db33a05ab2c7@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 3:47 AM, srinivasan
srinivas wrote:
> Hi,
> I have to call a perl method which takes a hash as its?argument from a python module. Is there a way to convert python dictionary to perl hash ( not hash ref)?

How are you calling the Perl method from Python in the first place?

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From paul at boddie.org.uk  Tue Aug 18 04:34:58 2009
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 01:34:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	
	<7f7c3e90-6026-411f-8b4a-829798819128@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
	<3fdfb992-058b-4017-b1b3-db3a9542b62e@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com> 
	<3d808272-6e56-4cf1-90df-8e5201df02df@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> 
	<13be5a11-612b-4fc5-a220-cc9aba2e4f8c@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> 
	<611687df-e755-4910-9042-5dab20de1a7e@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2f09b257-98c1-432c-8643-3bf1c5bdc875@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On 18 Aug, 05:19, ru... at yahoo.com wrote:
>
> Yes, I agree. ?I should have mentioned this as an exception
> in my "wikis suck" diatribe. ?Although it far better than
> most wiki's I've seen, it is still pretty easy to find signs
> of typical wiki-ness. ?On the Documentation page my first
> click was on AnnotableDocumentation: 404.

Well, "Annotatable Documentation" is an external link. All we can do
in such cases is to tidy such stuff up, mark it as invalid, or remove
it.

>?Second try, DoumentationDiscussion: two very short paragraphs dated 2003.

Right. There are parts of the Wiki which were used actively in the
past but which have fallen into disrepair. Some pages lack focus -
they've been created according to "old school" Wiki conventions which
I regard as being somewhat obsolete (just creating new pages all over
the place to cover whatever happens to be in the writer's head at the
time) - and every now and again, I attempt to rationalise these pages
and focus their content.

> After that I found some useful (in general though not what I
> was looking for) information but not a good first impression.
> (Well not exactly first, in fairness I have used other wiki
> sections such as the Templating page and found them very
> useful.)

It needs work, of course.

[...]

> I took a look at the PHP docs last night which seem
> pretty well done. ?The User Comments looked rather as I
> expected, there was useful info but most did not contain
> documentation quality writing. ?So if they are used as
> a source for improving the docs, there clearly must be a
> pretty large amount of editorial effort required, although
> much of it is probably just filtering out comments that
> don't provide any information appropriate for inclusion
> in the docs. ?They list 38 names under "User Note Maintainers"
> (http://www.php.net/manual/en/preface.php)
> Unfortunately I couldn't find a description of what these
> people actually do. ?I don't know how much work was involved
> in removing the comments that are no longer there.

Indeed. There's always the editorial bottleneck unless it's a total
free-for-all situation. I've remarked before about how user comments
don't necessarily add significantly to documentation, which is an
assertion that some people make, and there definitely does need to be
a process of integrating the best feedback into the main work. The
crucial difference between a Wiki and an annotation system is the
combination of the contribution and editorial aspects in a Wiki - you
edit the actual work, and people can decide whether it's a good edit
or not - in contrast to their separation in most annotation systems.
In some cases, strict annotation systems are probably better: the
GPLv3 annotation system was oriented towards discussion of the text,
and that's not so effectively done in a Wiki.

> Again, I don't mean to sound like I am dissing the idea
> of annotatable docs -- I think it is a good idea and will
> provide useful supplementary information.

Where there's a separation of annotation and editing, I worry about
the editorial bottleneck. I also worry about "handprint" edits more
generally, where people just want to leave their touch on the work
without actually contributing anything of substance.

> But I continue to question whether this will result in
> improvements in the docs themselves (which is my main
> interest) unless:
>
> ? ?1. The purpose of the wiki is clearly "marketed" as
> soliciting suggestions, rewrites, etc destined ultimately
> for inclusion in the docs.

I'm happy to see tangential work rather than stuff which fills exactly
the same role as the current documentation. For example, the Python
module of the week articles (PyMOTW, [1]) are exactly the kind of
tangential work that could be encouraged, even though that is not so
much a collaborative work itself.

Paul

[1] http://www.doughellmann.com/PyMOTW/


From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 04:42:26 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 01:42:26 -0700
Subject: Converting DD MM YYYY into YYYY-MM-DD?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <200908180142.26979.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com>

> Python doesn't like the above:
>
> #locale.Error: unsupported locale setting
> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, ('FR', 'UTF-8'))
>
> Maybe it was introduced in more recent versions of Python?
Hmm, that's odd. According to the docs 
(http://docs.python.org/library/locale.html#locale.setlocale) it's been that 
way since 2.0, but I've just checked this on my Windows (Vista) machine and 
you're right, it returns an error. 

This worked for me on 32-bit Vista:

locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, 'FR')

It uses Windows-1252 for the encoding, but that seems to deal with the 
circonflexe in 'Ao?t' just fine, so it should work for this purpose.


----
Rami Chowdhury
"Never attributed to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity." -- 
Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)

On Tuesday 18 August 2009 01:19:53 Gilles Ganault wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 01:11:20 -0700, Rami Chowdhury
>
>  wrote:
> >Could you let me know which platform this is on (Windows, *nix)? It may be
> > a locale encoding issue -- the locale.setlocale() function allows the
> > second argument to be a tuple of (locale_code, encoding), as below:
> >
> >locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, ('FR', 'UTF-8'))
>
> It's on XP, and I'm using ActivePython 2.5.1.1.
> http://www.activestate.com/activepython/
>
> Python doesn't like the above:
>
> #locale.Error: unsupported locale setting
> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, ('FR', 'UTF-8'))
>
> Maybe it was introduced in more recent versions of Python?
>
> >Since this is for a one-shot (and presumably threading-agnostic) program,
> > and a fairly trivially formatted date-string, I would suggest using
> >datetime.strptime
> >(http://docs.python.org/library/datetime.html#datetime.datetime.strptime)
> > and not regular expressions (which IIRC have Issues with non-ASCII
> > characters).
>
> If the regex library can only handle basic latin characters, I'll wait
> until a script I'm running is done, and I'll upgrade to the 2.6.2.2 to
> see how it goes.
>
> Thank you.



From nospam at nospam.com  Tue Aug 18 04:52:41 2009
From: nospam at nospam.com (Gilles Ganault)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:52:41 +0200
Subject: Converting DD MM YYYY into YYYY-MM-DD?
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

I find it odd that the regex library can't handle European characters
:-/


From indermeet.gandhi at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 04:55:35 2009
From: indermeet.gandhi at gmail.com (inder)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 01:55:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: XML parsing with python
References:  
	
	
	<4a8a4918$0$32672$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <25838ee3-897a-4979-bd08-c2d0287d02c0@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 18, 11:24?am, Stefan Behnel  wrote:
> inder wrote:
> > On Aug 17, 8:31 pm, John Posner  wrote:
> >>> Use the iterparse() function of the xml.etree.ElementTree package.
> >>>http://effbot.org/zone/element-iterparse.htm
> >>>http://codespeak.net/lxml/parsing.html#iterparse-and-iterwalk
> >>> Stefan
> >> iterparse() is too big a hammer for this purpose, IMO. How about this:
>
> >> ? from xml.etree.ElementTree import ElementTree
> >> ? tree = ElementTree(None, "myfile.xml")
> >> ? for elem in tree.findall('//book/title'):
> >> ? ? ? print elem.text
>
> >> -John
>
> > Thanks for the prompt reply .
>
> > I feel let me try using iterparse. Will it be slower compared to SAX
> > parsing ... ultimately I will have a huge xml file to parse ?
>
> If you use the cElementTree module, it may even be faster.
>
> > Another question , I will also need to validate my xml against xsd . I
> > would like to do this validation through the parsing tool ?itself .
>
> In that case, you can use lxml instead of ElementTree.
>
> http://codespeak.net/lxml/
>
> Stefan

Hi ,

Is lxml part of standard python package ? I am having python 2.5 .

I might not be able to use any additional package other than the
standard python . Could you please suggest something part of standard
python package ?

Thanks


From deets at nospam.web.de  Tue Aug 18 04:57:58 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:57:58 +0200
Subject: Changing Python Opcodes
References: <1e3f4885-f908-4a45-8f7a-1a45e9d91b27@n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<7ev303F2ib9r1U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<7cfe9433-37a6-456e-8a77-b0a8f17e5f23@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7ev8omF2ffh1jU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Sreejith K wrote:

> On Aug 18, 12:19?pm, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
> 
>> Did you try installing the egg *without* pyc-files in there? Because
>> naturally those shouldn't work. They shouldn't crash the interpreter
>> either, but then again - you *did* modify it.
> 
> Hi Diez, thanks for the immediate reply :)
> 
> I installed the setuptools using ez_setup.py script. Then I used the
> easy_install to install additional modules. When importing the
> installed modules segfault occurs. The module I installed was
> TurboGears.
> 
> Then I thought that it happened maybe because the easy_install script
> is downloading eggs for original python (I'm not sure if it is what
> easy_install is doing).

Yep, that's actually it's main purpose.

> So I also tried to install the module by 
> downloading all the dependencies (tar.gz files) and building it. Even
> then segfault occured. Is there any problem in changing only the
> opcodes.py file ? I did something horribly wrong here. Hope someone
> will help...

I don't know. You modified this yourself. If I were in your situation, what
I would have done is to 

 - modify the version-information stored in my PYC-files so that I'm sure I
don't accidentally load any "normal" PYC-files. Python does check that
through some magic number, make sure you use your own.

 - fire up the debugger and see where the segfault actually happens. Nobody
can be helping you there, because it's *your* code, not Python anymore. And
giving others access to it defies somewhat the purpose of the whole
exercise....

Diez


From nospam at nospam.com  Tue Aug 18 05:07:21 2009
From: nospam at nospam.com (Gilles Ganault)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:07:21 +0200
Subject: Converting DD MM YYYY into YYYY-MM-DD?
References: 
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:52:41 +0200, Gilles Ganault 
wrote:

>I find it odd that the regex library can't handle European characters
>:-/

Ha, found it! :-)

http://www.regular-expressions.info/python.html

=========
# -*- coding: latin-1 -*-

import locale
import re

locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, 'FR')

re_inscription =
re.compile(r"(?P\d+)\s+(?P\w+)\s+(?P\d+)",re.LOCALE)

dateinscription = "11 Ao?t 2008"
	
m = re_inscription.search(dateinscription)
if m:
		day = m.group("date")
		month = m.group("month")
		year = m.group("year")
		print "%s-%s-%s" % (year,month,day)
else:
	print "Yuck"
=========

Thanks everyone!


From http  Tue Aug 18 05:15:51 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 18 Aug 2009 02:15:51 -0700
Subject: Social problems of Python doc [was Re: Python docs disappointing]
References: 
	<6fa250dc-b7cf-43a6-ab1d-598c2a8e5cc8@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20c37f24-190a-44c6-82aa-2f90d17c7550@l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6fb561e8-741c-4466-a3fc-bf2454ede90e@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<0291a07d$0$20639$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<83e60eed-802c-4218-8394-0e764b962e81@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	
	<7f7c3e90-6026-411f-8b4a-829798819128@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
	<3fdfb992-058b-4017-b1b3-db3a9542b62e@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	<3d808272-6e56-4cf1-90df-8e5201df02df@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<13be5a11-612b-4fc5-a220-cc9aba2e4f8c@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<611687df-e755-4910-9042-5dab20de1a7e@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xiqgl7a9k.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

rurpy at yahoo.com writes:
> I took a look at the PHP docs last night which seem pretty well
> done.  The User Comments looked rather as I expected, there was
> useful info but most did not contain documentation quality writing.
> So if they are used as a source for improving the docs, there
> clearly must be a pretty large amount of editorial effort required,
> although much of it is probably just filtering out comments that
> don't provide any information appropriate for inclusion in the docs.

The comments section contains questions from users and answers to
those questions from other users.  What you may be missing is the part
of the comments useful to the doc maintainers is primarily the user
questions, rather than the user answers.  The questions show the doc
writer exactly what parts of the official doc are unclear or
incomplete.  The user-written answers may be wrong or generally crap,
but the doc writer now knows what to do to improve the doc.  That's
why it's such a win to have the comments on the same page as the
official docs.

See also the user-commented http://book.realworldhaskell.org/read/
where the comments really helped clarify the finished (dead tree) text.


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Tue Aug 18 05:26:02 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:26:02 +0200
Subject: XML parsing with python
In-Reply-To: <25838ee3-897a-4979-bd08-c2d0287d02c0@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	
	<4a8a4918$0$32672$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
	<25838ee3-897a-4979-bd08-c2d0287d02c0@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a8a73aa$0$32676$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>

inder wrote:
> Is lxml part of standard python package ? I am having python 2.5 .

No, that's why I suggested ElementTree first.


> I might not be able to use any additional package other than the
> standard python . Could you please suggest something part of standard
> python package ?

No, there isn't any XMLSchema support in the stdlib.

However, you may still be able to use lxml locally for development and with
validation enabled, and switch to non-validating ElementTree on
distribution/pre-prod-testing/whatever. Just use a conditional import and
write a bit of setup code.

Stefan


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Tue Aug 18 05:49:12 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:49:12 +0200
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
In-Reply-To: <1fa1663b-a1cb-42d4-890b-0617b73e8816@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	<1fa1663b-a1cb-42d4-890b-0617b73e8816@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <200908181149.12382.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Monday 17 August 2009 23:06:04 Carl Banks wrote:
> On Aug 17, 10:03?am, Jean-Michel Pichavant 
>
> wrote:
> > I'm no English native, but I already heard women/men referring to a
> > group as "guys", no matter that group gender configuration. It's even
> > used for group composed exclusively of women. Moreover it looks like a
> > *very* friendly form, so there is really nothing to worry about it.
>
> I like how being very friendly means calling people after a guy who
> tried to blow up the English Parliament.

+1 QOTW  - Hendrik





From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Aug 18 05:55:57 2009
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:55:57 +0200
Subject: Changing Python Opcodes
References: <1e3f4885-f908-4a45-8f7a-1a45e9d91b27@n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<7ev303F2ib9r1U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<7cfe9433-37a6-456e-8a77-b0a8f17e5f23@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<7ev8omF2ffh1jU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: 

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

> Sreejith K wrote:

>> So I compiled Python from source changing some opcode values

>  Nobody
> can be helping you there, because it's *your* code, not Python anymore.
> And giving others access to it defies somewhat the purpose of the whole
> exercise....

...and everyone with the expertise to decompile your application and do 
something useful with the result will also be able to find this thread. 
Basically you're trying the security through obscurity stunt without the 
obscurity...

Peter



From nitebirdz at sacredchaos.com  Tue Aug 18 06:02:44 2009
From: nitebirdz at sacredchaos.com (Nitebirdz)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 12:02:44 +0200
Subject: Using a Callback Function - ftplib
In-Reply-To: 
References: <76875cdd-30c4-4a3b-8a16-d0e2061765d7@v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<1euafoc8zeh0q.91hedjv5ueuh$.dlg@40tude.net>
	
Message-ID: <20090818100243.GB16443@sevilla.sacredchaos.com>

On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 11:10:25AM -0700, seldan24 wrote:
> 
> I didn't even notice the higher level methods.  I changed the
> retrieval line to:
> 
> ftp.nlst("testfile*.txt")
> 
> This works great.  The result is even captured in an array.  I really
> have no idea what the difference between a LIST and NLST is within
> FTP.  Never delved that deep into it.  I did notice that an NLST will
> return a specific FTP code if a file doesn't exist, whereas a LIST
> doesn't.  So, I ended up using NLST as that'll generate an
> ftplib.error_perm exception.  Based on if the job cares if a file is
> not available or not (some do, some don't), I'll either exit, or
> continue on with the file loop.
> 

The following thread from a NetBSD mailing list may help clarify this
issue:

http://mail-index.netbsd.org/netbsd-users/2001/01/30/0016.html


NLST returns a machine-readable list of names, while LIST returns a
human-readable list.  Hene the presence of the FTP code in the case of
NLST.  



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Aug 18 06:03:47 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 20:03:47 +1000
Subject: Converting DD MM YYYY into YYYY-MM-DD?
References: 
	
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: <87iqgligl8.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Gilles Ganault  writes:

> dateinscription = "11 Ao?t 2008"

For any text string that's not ASCII, you should specify it as Unicode.
(Actually, you should specify text as Unicode anyway.) For a literal
text string:

    dateinscription = u"11 Ao?t 2008"

If you're using exclusively Python 3, you will get Unicode text literals
by default; but I assume you're using Python 2 based on existing
discussion.

The principles of handling text in Python: Get it to internal Unicode
objects as soon as possible, handle it as Unicode for as long as
possible, and only encode it to some byte stream for output as late as
possible.

-- 
 \       ?When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold to the masses |
  `\    over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and |
_o__)                    its speaker a raving lunatic.? ?Dresden James |
Ben Finney


From sleepy at cabbage.co.uk  Tue Aug 18 06:05:18 2009
From: sleepy at cabbage.co.uk (Sleepy Cabbage)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:05:18 GMT
Subject: urlopen errors in script
Message-ID: 

I'm scripting a superkaramba theme using python and have intgrated output
from amarok. I have also would like to show the artist and song title from
a radio stream i've added to my playlist.

If I open a python console and add the following:

>>>import urllib2
>>>from urllib2 import urlopen

>>>nowplaying = str.split(urlopen('http://www.hearteastmids.co.uk//
jsfiles/NowPlayingDisplay.aspx?f=http%3A%2F%2Frope.ccap.fimc.net%2Ffeeds%
2Fnowplaying%2FGlobal%2FHeart_Network%2FHeart_East_Midlands%
2F6854.xml&l=6854&tzc=8&at=HeartEastMids').read(),'>')

>>>print test[4][:-3]

this works and displays the artist and song title.

However, when I add this to my script I get the following errors:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

superkaramba(28855) ThemesDlg::addThemeToList: addThemeToList() file:  "/
home/sleepy/dev/MyTheme/
MyTheme.theme"
superkaramba(28855) Karamba::startKaramba: Loading script module:
"MyTheme.py"
superkaramba(28855) KarambaInterface::initInterpreter: Using  "python"
script:  "/home/sleepy/dev/MyTheme/
MyTheme.py"
Kross: "Loading the interpreter library for python"
Kross: "Successfully loaded Interpreter instance from library."
Kross:
"PythonScript::Constructor."
Kross:
"PythonScript::execute"
Kross:
"PythonInterpreter::extractException:
  File "/home/sleepy/dev/MyTheme/MyTheme.py", line 4, in

    #this import statement allows access to the karamba
functions

  File "/home/sleepy/dev/MyTheme/MyTheme.py", line 9, in 
    import urllib2

  File "", line 18, in _import

  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/urllib2.py", line 92, in 
    import httplib

  File "", line 18, in _import

  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/httplib.py", line 1054, in 
    import ssl

  File "", line 18, in _import

  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/ssl.py", line 81, in 
    class SSLSocket (socket):
"
Kross: "Error error=Error when calling the metaclass bases
    module.__init__() takes at most 2 arguments (3 given) lineno=81 trace=
  File "/home/sleepy/dev/MyTheme/MyTheme.py", line 4, in

    #this import statement allows access to the karamba functions

  File "/home/sleepy/dev/MyTheme/MyTheme.py", line 9, in 
    import urllib2

  File "", line 18, in _import

  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/urllib2.py", line 92, in 
    import httplib

  File "", line 18, in _import

  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/httplib.py", line 1054, in 
    import ssl

  File "", line 18, in _import

  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/ssl.py", line 81, in 
    class SSLSocket (socket):
"
TypeError: Error when calling the metaclass bases
    module.__init__() takes at most 2 arguments (3 given)
Error in sys.excepthook:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/apport_python_hook.py", line 38,
in apport_excepthook
    from apport.packaging_impl import impl as
packaging
  File "", line 18, in
_import
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/apport/__init__.py", line 1, in

    from apport.report import
Report
  File "", line 18, in
_import
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/apport/report.py", line 21, in

    import
fileutils
  File "", line 18, in
_import
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/apport/fileutils.py", line 16,
in 
    from packaging_impl import impl as
packaging
  File "", line 18, in
_import
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/apport/packaging_impl.py", line
18, in 
    import
apt
  File "", line 18, in
_import
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/apt/__init__.py", line 7, in

    from apt.package import
Package
  File "", line 18, in
_import
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/apt/package.py", line 23, in

    import
httplib
  File "", line 18, in
_import
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/httplib.py", line 1054, in

    import
ssl
  File "", line 18, in _import
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/ssl.py", line 81, in 
    class SSLSocket (socket):
TypeError: Error when calling the metaclass bases
    module.__init__() takes at most 2 arguments (3 given)

Original exception was:
TypeError: Error when calling the metaclass bases
    module.__init__() takes at most 2 arguments (3 given)
Kross: "PythonScript::Destructor."

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks in advance



From sleepy at cabbage.co.uk  Tue Aug 18 06:07:41 2009
From: sleepy at cabbage.co.uk (Sleepy Cabbage)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:07:41 GMT
Subject: urlopen errors in script
Message-ID: 

I'm scripting a superkaramba theme using python and have intgrated output
from amarok. I have also would like to show the artist and song title from
a radio stream i've added to my playlist.

If I open a python console and add the following:

">>>import urllib2"
">>>from urllib2 import urlopen"

">>>nowplaying = str.split(urlopen('http://www.hearteastmids.co.uk//
jsfiles/NowPlayingDisplay.aspx?f=http%3A%2F%2Frope.ccap.fimc.net%2Ffeeds%
2Fnowplaying%2FGlobal%2FHeart_Network%2FHeart_East_Midlands%
2F6854.xml&l=6854&tzc=8&at=HeartEastMids').read(),'>')"

">>>print test[4][:-3]"

this works and displays the artist and song title.

However, when I add this to my script I get the following errors:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

superkaramba(28855) ThemesDlg::addThemeToList: addThemeToList() file:  "/
home/sleepy/dev/MyTheme/
MyTheme.theme"
superkaramba(28855) Karamba::startKaramba: Loading script module:
"MyTheme.py"
superkaramba(28855) KarambaInterface::initInterpreter: Using  "python"
script:  "/home/sleepy/dev/MyTheme/
MyTheme.py"
Kross: "Loading the interpreter library for python"
Kross: "Successfully loaded Interpreter instance from library."
Kross:
"PythonScript::Constructor."
Kross:
"PythonScript::execute"
Kross:
"PythonInterpreter::extractException:
  File "/home/sleepy/dev/MyTheme/MyTheme.py", line 4, in

    #this import statement allows access to the karamba
functions

  File "/home/sleepy/dev/MyTheme/MyTheme.py", line 9, in 
    import urllib2

  File "", line 18, in _import

  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/urllib2.py", line 92, in 
    import httplib

  File "", line 18, in _import

  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/httplib.py", line 1054, in 
    import ssl

  File "", line 18, in _import

  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/ssl.py", line 81, in 
    class SSLSocket (socket):
"
Kross: "Error error=Error when calling the metaclass bases
    module.__init__() takes at most 2 arguments (3 given) lineno=81 trace=
  File "/home/sleepy/dev/MyTheme/MyTheme.py", line 4, in

    #this import statement allows access to the karamba functions

  File "/home/sleepy/dev/MyTheme/MyTheme.py", line 9, in 
    import urllib2

  File "", line 18, in _import

  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/urllib2.py", line 92, in 
    import httplib

  File "", line 18, in _import

  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/httplib.py", line 1054, in 
    import ssl

  File "", line 18, in _import

  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/ssl.py", line 81, in 
    class SSLSocket (socket):
"
TypeError: Error when calling the metaclass bases
    module.__init__() takes at most 2 arguments (3 given)
Error in sys.excepthook:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/apport_python_hook.py", line 38,
in apport_excepthook
    from apport.packaging_impl import impl as
packaging
  File "", line 18, in
_import
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/apport/__init__.py", line 1, in

    from apport.report import
Report
  File "", line 18, in
_import
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/apport/report.py", line 21, in

    import
fileutils
  File "", line 18, in
_import
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/apport/fileutils.py", line 16,
in 
    from packaging_impl import impl as
packaging
  File "", line 18, in
_import
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/apport/packaging_impl.py", line
18, in 
    import
apt
  File "", line 18, in
_import
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/apt/__init__.py", line 7, in

    from apt.package import
Package
  File "", line 18, in
_import
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/apt/package.py", line 23, in

    import
httplib
  File "", line 18, in
_import
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/httplib.py", line 1054, in

    import
ssl
  File "", line 18, in _import
  File "/usr/lib/python2.6/ssl.py", line 81, in 
    class SSLSocket (socket):
TypeError: Error when calling the metaclass bases
    module.__init__() takes at most 2 arguments (3 given)

Original exception was:
TypeError: Error when calling the metaclass bases
    module.__init__() takes at most 2 arguments (3 given)
Kross: "PythonScript::Destructor."

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks in advance



From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Tue Aug 18 06:12:14 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 12:12:14 +0200
Subject: Diversity in Python (was Re: Need cleanup advice for multiline
	string)
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <200908181212.14882.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Tuesday 18 August 2009 06:45:39 Aahz wrote:
> In article ,
>
> Steven D'Aprano   wrote:
> >The comments were made a week ago -- why the sudden flurry of attention?
>
> Mainly an opportunity to flog the new diversity list.

Here my English fails me - flog as in "whip", or flog as in "sell"?

- Hendrik


From nospam at nospam.com  Tue Aug 18 06:21:07 2009
From: nospam at nospam.com (Gilles Ganault)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 12:21:07 +0200
Subject: Converting DD MM YYYY into YYYY-MM-DD?
References: 
	
	
	
	
	
	<87iqgligl8.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 20:03:47 +1000, Ben Finney
 wrote:
>The principles of handling text in Python: Get it to internal Unicode
>objects as soon as possible, handle it as Unicode for as long as
>possible, and only encode it to some byte stream for output as late as
>possible.

Thanks much for the tip. I'll keep that in mind when I have strings
with accents.


From marduk at letterboxes.org  Tue Aug 18 06:26:02 2009
From: marduk at letterboxes.org (Albert Hopkins)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 06:26:02 -0400
Subject: Strongly typed list
In-Reply-To: <7ev11jF1jj25dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: 
	
	<7718922b-c72c-4a7e-90a3-098318063013@n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	<7ev11jF1jj25dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1250591162.10348.3.camel@blackwidow.nbk>

On Tue, 2009-08-18 at 08:46 +0200, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
  > Please could you lead me to a way or a good IDE that makes developing
> > huge projects in python more easier than what i found.Now i am using
> > eclips. Actually it is very hard to remember all my classes methods
> > and attributes or copy and paste them each time.
> > Thanks very much for your interest
> > Hani Almousli.....
> 
> There are many really big projects written in Python - none of them with 
> the aid of intelli-sense.
> 
> What python lacks in that respect due to it's dynamic typing, it more 
> than compensates by being faster to develop and having to write much 
> less code.

But this class can do *anything*!  It .slice()s.. It .dice()s...


... sorry, couldn't resist ;-)

-a




From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Aug 18 06:37:47 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 20:37:47 +1000
Subject: Converting DD MM YYYY into YYYY-MM-DD?
References: 
	
	
	
	
	
	<87iqgligl8.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
Message-ID: <87ab1xif0k.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Gilles Ganault  writes:

> On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 20:03:47 +1000, Ben Finney
>  wrote:
> >The principles of handling text in Python: Get it to internal Unicode
> >objects as soon as possible, handle it as Unicode for as long as
> >possible, and only encode it to some byte stream for output as late as
> >possible.
>
> Thanks much for the tip. I'll keep that in mind when I have strings
> with accents.

Again, note that these recommendations hold for *any* text in Python,
with or without accents; once you accept that text is best handled in
Unicode, there's little sense in making an exception for the limited
subset that happens to be representable in ASCII.

-- 
 \        ?The Bermuda Triangle got tired of warm weather. It moved to |
  `\               Alaska. Now Santa Claus is missing.? ?Steven Wright |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From rui.maciel at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 06:38:30 2009
From: rui.maciel at gmail.com (Rui Maciel)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:38:30 +0100
Subject: A Exhibition Of Tech Geekers Incompetence: Emacs whitespace-mode
References: <61ef4451-d6b6-493b-b4a0-1822a901ca8d@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a8a84a3$0$27142$a729d347@news.telepac.pt>

Xah Lee wrote:

> This feature is important in practical ways. For example, when you
> work with ?tab separated line? files (CSV) that's a common format for
> importing/exporting address books or spreadsheets.

CSV stands for "comma separated values" and the import facilities of any spreadsheet application lets the 
user define the field separator character.


Rui Maciel


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Aug 18 06:38:36 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 20:38:36 +1000
Subject: Diversity in Python
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: <8763cliez7.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Hendrik van Rooyen  writes:

> On Tuesday 18 August 2009 06:45:39 Aahz wrote:
> > Mainly an opportunity to flog the new diversity list.
>
> Here my English fails me - flog as in "whip", or flog as in "sell"?

Yes :-)

-- 
 \       ?The most common of all follies is to believe passionately in |
  `\    the palpably not true. It is the chief occupation of mankind.? |
_o__)                                                ?Henry L. Mencken |
Ben Finney


From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Aug 18 07:21:59 2009
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:21:59 +0200
Subject: urlopen errors in script
References: 
Message-ID: 

Sleepy Cabbage wrote:

> I'm scripting a superkaramba theme using python and have intgrated output
> from amarok. I have also would like to show the artist and song title from
> a radio stream i've added to my playlist.
> 
> If I open a python console and add the following:
> 
> ">>>import urllib2"
> ">>>from urllib2 import urlopen"
> 
> ">>>nowplaying = str.split(urlopen('http://www.hearteastmids.co.uk//
> jsfiles/NowPlayingDisplay.aspx?f=http%3A%2F%2Frope.ccap.fimc.net%2Ffeeds%
> 2Fnowplaying%2FGlobal%2FHeart_Network%2FHeart_East_Midlands%
> 2F6854.xml&l=6854&tzc=8&at=HeartEastMids').read(),'>')"
> 
> ">>>print test[4][:-3]"
> 
> this works and displays the artist and song title.
> 
> However, when I add this to my script I get the following errors:

Please give a minimal version of your script that produces the error, not 
some arbitrary excerpt that you ran successfully on the command line.

If I were to guess: you are doing something like

import socket
socket.socket = socket

somewhere, thus confusing the socket class with the module of the same name.

Peter



From mhammond at skippinet.com.au  Tue Aug 18 07:32:23 2009
From: mhammond at skippinet.com.au (Mark Hammond)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 21:32:23 +1000
Subject: [Python-Dev] Mercurial migration: help needed
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4A8A6256.1030009@v.loewis.de>
	
Message-ID: <4A8A9147.7070109@skippinet.com.au>

On 18/08/2009 6:20 PM, Dirkjan Ochtman wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 10:12, "Martin v. L?wis"  wrote:
>> In this thread, I'd like to collect things that ought to be done
>> but where Dirkjan has indicated that he would prefer if somebody else
>> did it.
>
> I think the most important item here is currently the win32text stuff.
> Mark Hammond said he would work on this; Mark, when do you have time
> for this? Then I could set apart some time for it as well.

I can make time, somewhat spasmodically, starting fairly soon.  Might I 
suggest that as a first task I can resurrect my old stale patch, and you 
can arrange to install win32text locally and start experimenting with 
how mixed line-endings can work for you.  Once we are all playing in the 
same ballpark I think we should be able to make good progress.

I-said-ballpark-yet-I-call-myself-an-aussie? ly,

Mark


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Aug 18 07:36:49 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:36:49 +0200
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
In-Reply-To: <4A89CEA2.10400@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: 	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>			<1fa1663b-a1cb-42d4-890b-0617b73e8816@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<4A89CEA2.10400@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <4A8A9251.3080200@sequans.com>

MRAB wrote:
> Carl Banks wrote:
>> On Aug 17, 10:03 am, Jean-Michel Pichavant 
>> wrote:
>>> I'm no English native, but I already heard women/men referring to a
>>> group as "guys", no matter that group gender configuration. It's even
>>> used for group composed exclusively of women. Moreover it looks like a
>>> *very* friendly form, so there is really nothing to worry about it.
>>
>> I like how being very friendly means calling people after a guy who
>> tried to blow up the English Parliament.
>>
> Guy Fawkes adopted the name Guido while fighting for the Spanish in the
> Low Countries:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes
>
I didn't get Carl's reference. The only thing I know about blowing the 
parliament is from the movie V for Vendetta (no comment please !).
Now thanks to your link:
"In 18th-century England, the term "guy" was used to refer to an effigy 
 of Fawkes, which would be paraded 
around town by children on the anniversary of the conspiracy"

Well, my knowledge is much too low to get this kind of reference from 
the start. :-/

JM


From hani.mousli at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 07:37:54 2009
From: hani.mousli at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?2YfYp9mG2Yog2KfZhNmF2YjYtdmE2Yo=?=)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 04:37:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Strongly typed list
References: 
Message-ID: <1513faa5-e199-400c-a567-1f7b33aeb547@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>

I think i found a good managable solution. Actually it is trivial but
may help (I used it now).
When i wnat to access the list then i assign the object which i want
to access to a variable ex:
1)x=AutomataBranch()
2)x=self.cfgAutomata[i]

The first line is used only to make the IDE knows that x is from
AutomatBranch type.After that when i press x. then all methods and
properties are visualized.

I think it is some how good.


From exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  Tue Aug 18 07:45:18 2009
From: exarkun at twistedmatrix.com (exarkun at twistedmatrix.com)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:45:18 -0000
Subject: Python 'for' loop is memory inefficient
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<02969972$0$20647$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<4434e799-d907-49ca-93ee-a4be3276f9c2@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
	<3c0abe16-f05a-4c5f-9773-f813bc424f14@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<20090817194155.8740.902674574.divmod.xquotient.69@localhost.localdomain>
	
Message-ID: <20090818114518.7602.827840579.divmod.xquotient.0@localhost.localdomain>

On 03:56 am, tjreedy at udel.edu wrote:
>exarkun at twistedmatrix.com wrote:
>>There's a lot of things in Python that I don't strictly *need*.  That 
>>doesn't mean that they wouldn't be welcome if I could have them. 
>>Getting rid of the range/xrange dichotomy would improve things.
>
>The developers agreed a couple of years ago. Starting using 3.1 if you 
>want this.

And there was much rejoicing, et cetera.
>Since 'range' could refer to a user-defined object, rather than the 
>builtin function, there is no way the interpreter should substitute 
>'xrange'.

See the earlier parts of this thread for the reasons this isn't true. :)

Jean-Paul


From dirkjan at ochtman.nl  Tue Aug 18 07:46:36 2009
From: dirkjan at ochtman.nl (Dirkjan Ochtman)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:46:36 +0200
Subject: [Python-Dev] Mercurial migration: help needed
In-Reply-To: <4A8A9147.7070109@skippinet.com.au>
References: <4A8A6256.1030009@v.loewis.de>
	
	<4A8A9147.7070109@skippinet.com.au>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 13:32, Mark Hammond wrote:
> I can make time, somewhat spasmodically, starting fairly soon. ?Might I
> suggest that as a first task I can resurrect my old stale patch, and you can
> arrange to install win32text locally and start experimenting with how mixed
> line-endings can work for you. ?Once we are all playing in the same ballpark
> I think we should be able to make good progress.

Sounds good to me.

Cheers,

Dirkjan


From sleepy at cabbage.co.uk  Tue Aug 18 07:48:42 2009
From: sleepy at cabbage.co.uk (Sleepy Cabbage)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:48:42 GMT
Subject: urlopen errors in script
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:21:59 +0200, Peter Otten wrote:

> Sleepy Cabbage wrote:
> 
>> I'm scripting a superkaramba theme using python and have intgrated
>> output from amarok. I have also would like to show the artist and song
>> title from a radio stream i've added to my playlist.
>> 
>> If I open a python console and add the following:
>> 
>> ">>>import urllib2"
>> ">>>from urllib2 import urlopen"
>> 
>> ">>>nowplaying = str.split(urlopen('http://www.hearteastmids.co.uk//
>> jsfiles/NowPlayingDisplay.aspx?f=http%3A%2F%2Frope.ccap.fimc.net%
2Ffeeds%
>> 2Fnowplaying%2FGlobal%2FHeart_Network%2FHeart_East_Midlands%
>> 2F6854.xml&l=6854&tzc=8&at=HeartEastMids').read(),'>')"
>> 
>> ">>>print test[4][:-3]"
>> 
>> this works and displays the artist and song title.
>> 
>> However, when I add this to my script I get the following errors:
> 
> Please give a minimal version of your script that produces the error,
> not some arbitrary excerpt that you ran successfully on the command
> line.
> 
> If I were to guess: you are doing something like
> 
> import socket
> socket.socket = socket
> 
> somewhere, thus confusing the socket class with the module of the same
> name.
> 
> Peter

Thanks Peter.

This is the script up to where the error seems to fall:

"#!/usr/bin/env superkaramba"
"# -*- coding: iso-8859-1 -*-"

"import karamba"
"import subprocess"
"from subprocess import Popen, PIPE, STDOUT, call"
"import urllib"
"from urllib import urlopen"

"#this is called when your widget is initialized"
"def initWidget(widget):"
  "clkPause = karamba.createClickArea(widget, 156, 470, 35, 35, "qdbus 
org.kde.amarok /Player Pause")"
  "nowplaying = urllib.urlopen('http://www.hearteastmids.co.uk//jsfiles/
NowPlayingDisplay.aspx?f=http%3A%2F%2Frope.ccap.fimc.net%2Ffeeds%
2Fnowplaying%2FGlobal%2FHeart_Network%2FHeart_East_Midlands%
2F6854.xml&l=6854&tzc=8&at=HeartEastMids').read()"

Hope this can enlighten things


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Tue Aug 18 07:55:06 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:55:06 +0200
Subject: Converting DD MM YYYY into YYYY-MM-DD?
In-Reply-To: <87ab1xif0k.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: 						<87iqgligl8.fsf@benfinney.id.au>	
	<87ab1xif0k.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <4a8a969b$0$30229$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net>

Ben Finney wrote:
>>> The principles of handling text in Python: Get it to internal Unicode
>>> objects as soon as possible, handle it as Unicode for as long as
>>> possible, and only encode it to some byte stream for output as late as
>>> possible.
> Again, note that these recommendations hold for *any* text in Python,
> with or without accents; once you accept that text is best handled in
> Unicode, there's little sense in making an exception for the limited
> subset that happens to be representable in ASCII.

If the QOTW wasn't meant for fun, I'd vote for this. This is very good advice.

Stefan


From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Aug 18 08:19:52 2009
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:19:52 +0200
Subject: urlopen errors in script
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

Sleepy Cabbage wrote:

> This is the script up to where the error seems to fall:
> 
> "#!/usr/bin/env superkaramba"
> "# -*- coding: iso-8859-1 -*-"
> 
> "import karamba"
> "import subprocess"
> "from subprocess import Popen, PIPE, STDOUT, call"
> "import urllib"
> "from urllib import urlopen"
> 
> "#this is called when your widget is initialized"
> "def initWidget(widget):"
>   "clkPause = karamba.createClickArea(widget, 156, 470, 35, 35, "qdbus
> org.kde.amarok /Player Pause")"
>   "nowplaying = urllib.urlopen('http://www.hearteastmids.co.uk//jsfiles/
> NowPlayingDisplay.aspx?f=http%3A%2F%2Frope.ccap.fimc.net%2Ffeeds%
> 2Fnowplaying%2FGlobal%2FHeart_Network%2FHeart_East_Midlands%
> 2F6854.xml&l=6854&tzc=8&at=HeartEastMids').read()"
> 
> Hope this can enlighten things

While there isn't any obvious blunder apart from the odd quotes that you 
wrap around every line there seem to be other files missing to run the 
script. I'm sorry, but I'm not prepared to invest much more than

$ sudo aptitude install superkaramba

into the problem.

Perhaps an actual user of superkaramba can step in.

Peter



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Tue Aug 18 08:59:43 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 18 Aug 2009 12:59:43 GMT
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<1fa1663b-a1cb-42d4-890b-0617b73e8816@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<4A89CEA2.10400@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	
Message-ID: <0014291d$0$2963$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:36:49 +0200, Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:

> MRAB wrote:
>> Carl Banks wrote:
>>> On Aug 17, 10:03 am, Jean-Michel Pichavant 
>>> wrote:
>>>> I'm no English native, but I already heard women/men referring to a
>>>> group as "guys", no matter that group gender configuration. It's even
>>>> used for group composed exclusively of women. Moreover it looks like
>>>> a *very* friendly form, so there is really nothing to worry about it.
>>>
>>> I like how being very friendly means calling people after a guy who
>>> tried to blow up the English Parliament.
>>>
>> Guy Fawkes adopted the name Guido while fighting for the Spanish in the
>> Low Countries:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes
>>
> I didn't get Carl's reference. The only thing I know about blowing the
> parliament is from the movie V for Vendetta (no comment please !). Now
> thanks to your link:
> "In 18th-century England, the term "guy" was used to refer to an effigy
>  of Fawkes, which would be paraded
> around town by children on the anniversary of the conspiracy"
> 
> Well, my knowledge is much too low to get this kind of reference from
> the start. :-/

"Guy" is an old English name, related to the old French name "Gy" and 
Italian "Guido". It's originally derived from the Old German for "wood" 
or "warrior".

After Guy Fawkes tried to blow up the English Parliament house, and was 
executed, the British government encouraged people to burn effigies of 
him. These became known as "guys", which eventually became slang for an 
ugly man, which later became slang for any man, and in recent years, any 
person.

So the irony is that the friendly term "guys", referring to a group of 
people, is derived from the name of an 18th century religious terrorist.

One can only wonder whether in 200 years time people will walk into the 
office and say "Hey you osamas, they're giving away free donuts down 
stairs, anyone want some?"



-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Tue Aug 18 09:01:53 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 18 Aug 2009 13:01:53 GMT
Subject: Diversity in Python (was Re: Need cleanup advice for multiline
	string)
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: <001429a0$0$2963$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 12:12:14 +0200, Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:

> On Tuesday 18 August 2009 06:45:39 Aahz wrote:
>> In article ,
>>
>> Steven D'Aprano   wrote:
>> >The comments were made a week ago -- why the sudden flurry of
>> >attention?
>>
>> Mainly an opportunity to flog the new diversity list.
> 
> Here my English fails me - flog as in "whip", or flog as in "sell"?

Almost certainly "flog" as in sell.

But not literally sell, for money, but sell in the sense of convincing 
others it is a good list to join.



-- 
Steven


From sleepy at cabbage.co.uk  Tue Aug 18 09:05:03 2009
From: sleepy at cabbage.co.uk (Sleepy Cabbage)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:05:03 GMT
Subject: urlopen errors in script
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: <3Gxim.148238$XK2.30441@newsfe15.ams2>

Thanks for the time you've spent anyway Peter. I have superkaramba 
installed and the rest of the script is running fine, it's only when I 
put the urlopen part in that it comes back with errors. The quotes are 
just to make it readable on here as my first attempt at posting muted the 
text.



From deets at nospam.web.de  Tue Aug 18 09:15:42 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 15:15:42 +0200
Subject: Strongly typed list
References: 
	<1513faa5-e199-400c-a567-1f7b33aeb547@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7evnruF2i9sm7U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

???? ??????? wrote:

> I think i found a good managable solution. Actually it is trivial but
> may help (I used it now).
> When i wnat to access the list then i assign the object which i want
> to access to a variable ex:
> 1)x=AutomataBranch()
> 2)x=self.cfgAutomata[i]
> 
> The first line is used only to make the IDE knows that x is from
> AutomatBranch type.After that when i press x. then all methods and
> properties are visualized.
> 
> I think it is some how good.

Unless x=AutomataBranch() is something that is expensive. And to be honest:
changing code (possibly introducing bugs!!!) to work around short-comings
in either your IDE or your way you insist to work strikes me as odd.

I understand the desire to have autocompletion. But it's not *that*
important. Maybe fabrio (who's maintaining the PyDev-eclipse-plugin) could
be asked to add something like this:

  #@x:AutomataBranch

to the plugin - so that when pydev reads that comment, it has a hint on what
to use for autocompletion.

Diez


From naveen.garg at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 09:50:56 2009
From: naveen.garg at gmail.com (naveen)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 06:50:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: define class over 2 files
References: <7de550a5-64af-4f40-a7fc-e3c449d0dce9@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6a490ec8-3536-4508-afd4-90a5cf9317b5@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<87zl9xiohe.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: 

> indicator of bad practice. What is the problem you're trying to solve?
> Ben Finney

No major problem.
I was just trying to make some experimental changes to autokey. My
repo: http://github.com/tinku99/autokey.git/

Didn't want to subclass or reorganize a class just yet.


From brochu121 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 09:51:45 2009
From: brochu121 at gmail.com (David Brochu)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 09:51:45 -0400
Subject: Compare content of two XML files
Message-ID: <9583ed900908180651h270a2218nc1a3c3bab383e897@mail.gmail.com>

I need to compare a REST XML response with a 'gold standard' response (one
that we have already verified is correct). The problem is, sometimes the
REST response comes back and it is logically correct, but the order of
attributes and elements is different than what is in the 'gold standard'
file. For example:

'Gold Standard':


    
    
        
            
        


REST Response:


    
    
        
            
        

Notice how the attributes in  and  are in different order. The
response is correct, but obviously doesn't match the 'gold standard'.

Does anyone know how I would be able to compare these two files and verify
they match, even though the order of attributes and elements may be
different between the two? Is there a module I should be using for this?
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From jjposner at optimum.net  Tue Aug 18 10:04:36 2009
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:04:36 -0400
Subject: Code formatting question: conditional expression
Message-ID: <4A8AB4F4.3040805@optimum.net>

While refactoring some code, I ran across an opportunity to use a 
conditional expression. Original:

  if total > P.BASE:
      excessblk = Block(total - P.BASE, srccol, carry_button_suppress=True)
  else:
      excessblk = None

Is there any consensus on how to format a conditional expression that is 
too long for one line? How about this:

  excessblk = (Block(total - P.BASE, srccol, carry_button_suppress=True)
               if total > P.BASE else
               None)

The above format separates the values from the if-then-else machinery. 
Too many lines? Would it be better to line up "if" and "else" 
vertically? ...

  excessblk = (Block(total - P.BASE, srccol, carry_button_suppress=True)
               if total > P.BASE
               else None)

PEP 308 is silent on this topic.

-John



From lauromoura at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 10:06:47 2009
From: lauromoura at gmail.com (Lauro Moura)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:06:47 -0300
Subject: ANN: PySide has been released
Message-ID: 

Hi,

The PySide team is pleased to announce the first public release of
PySide: Python for Qt!

PySide, its documentation, and developer resources are available at the
project website, http://www.pyside.org .

What is it?
-----------

PySide is a project providing an LGPL'd set of Python bindings for the
Qt framework.

PySide already provides a full set of Qt bindings as well as automated
binding generation tools. Since the whole toolset has been made
available, the team expects PySide to be valuable not only to Qt
software developers, but to people willing to create Python bindings to
any Qt-based library, or to any C++ library in general. Although based
on a different technical approach, PySide will initially be
API-compatible with existing Python bindings for Qt.

PySide is still a work in progress, and some work is still required to
stabilize the codebase. This being said, the team believes it is already
in a usable state, especially if an occasional rough edge and unpainted
surface can be tolerated. Due to practical reasons, the initial
development efforts have been focused on Linux, but the team hopes
people to join in porting the code to other platforms and to further
develop the bindings and tools.

Regards,
PySide team

-- 
Lauro Moura ("lmoura" on Freenode)
http://lauro.wordpress.com


From tuomas.vesterinen at iki.fi  Tue Aug 18 10:08:23 2009
From: tuomas.vesterinen at iki.fi (Tuomas Vesterinen)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:08:23 +0300
Subject: ANNOUNCEMENT: Tinybooker accounting released
Message-ID: <4a8ab5d7$0$24765$9b536df3@news.fv.fi>

Tinybooker 0.2.2 released at http://tinybooker.org/

Tinybooker is an accounting program offering the dual accounting
core functionality for moderate size accountings:

     * Assisted establishing new accountings
     * Localized scheme templates
     * Easy entering and saving new entries
     * Standard reports in plain text or HTML: Income Statement,
       Balance Sheet, Journal, Nominal Ledger, Final Statement
       and Scheme
     * Assisted opening the next financial year
     * Accounting example as a demo
     * Open for auditing, all files human readable plain text
     * All written in pure Python
     * License GPL3

This early release is for Linux only. Later Tinybooker will be
ported to Windows.

Developers, more translations wanted, join the project contacting
me at https://sourceforge.net/sendmessage.php?touser=2524141.


From deets at nospam.web.de  Tue Aug 18 10:10:01 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:10:01 +0200
Subject: Code formatting question: conditional expression
References: 
Message-ID: <7evr1pF2i4mouU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

John Posner wrote:

> While refactoring some code, I ran across an opportunity to use a
> conditional expression. Original:
> 
>   if total > P.BASE:
>       excessblk = Block(total - P.BASE, srccol,
>       carry_button_suppress=True)
>   else:
>       excessblk = None
> 
> Is there any consensus on how to format a conditional expression that is
> too long for one line? How about this:
> 
>   excessblk = (Block(total - P.BASE, srccol, carry_button_suppress=True)
>                if total > P.BASE else
>                None)
> 
> The above format separates the values from the if-then-else machinery.
> Too many lines? Would it be better to line up "if" and "else"
> vertically? ...
> 
>   excessblk = (Block(total - P.BASE, srccol, carry_button_suppress=True)
>                if total > P.BASE
>                else None)

My choice would be

excessblk = None
if total > P.BASE:
    excessblk = ...


You don't lose any vertical space, and it's much more readable IMHO.

Diez


From vs at it.uu.se  Tue Aug 18 10:28:08 2009
From: vs at it.uu.se (Virgil Stokes)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:28:08 +0200
Subject: Start-up program
Message-ID: <4A8ABA78.8050605@it.uu.se>

How difficult is to create a program that will be executed when Windows 
Vista is started? As Windows Calendar does, for example.

I am actually more interested in the Python tools that might be used for 
this task. I hope that this question is not inappropriate for the list. :-\

--V



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Aug 18 10:32:02 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:32:02 +0200
Subject: Code formatting question: conditional expression
In-Reply-To: <7evr1pF2i4mouU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: 
	<7evr1pF2i4mouU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <4A8ABB62.80702@sequans.com>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> John Posner wrote:
>
>   
>> While refactoring some code, I ran across an opportunity to use a
>> conditional expression. Original:
>>
>>   if total > P.BASE:
>>       excessblk = Block(total - P.BASE, srccol,
>>       carry_button_suppress=True)
>>   else:
>>       excessblk = None
>>
>> Is there any consensus on how to format a conditional expression that is
>> too long for one line? How about this:
>>
>>   excessblk = (Block(total - P.BASE, srccol, carry_button_suppress=True)
>>                if total > P.BASE else
>>                None)
>>
>> The above format separates the values from the if-then-else machinery.
>> Too many lines? Would it be better to line up "if" and "else"
>> vertically? ...
>>
>>   excessblk = (Block(total - P.BASE, srccol, carry_button_suppress=True)
>>                if total > P.BASE
>>                else None)
>>     
>
> My choice would be
>
> excessblk = None
> if total > P.BASE:
>     excessblk = ...
>
>
> You don't lose any vertical space, and it's much more readable IMHO.
>
> Diez
>   
+1, I'm using such layout whenever possible.

JM


From invalid at invalid  Tue Aug 18 10:36:03 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 09:36:03 -0500
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<1fa1663b-a1cb-42d4-890b-0617b73e8816@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-17, Carl Banks  wrote:
> On Aug 17, 10:03?am, Jean-Michel Pichavant 
> wrote:
>> I'm no English native, but I already heard women/men referring to a
>> group as "guys", no matter that group gender configuration. It's even
>> used for group composed exclusively of women. Moreover it looks like a
>> *very* friendly form, so there is really nothing to worry about it.
>
> I like how being very friendly means calling people after a guy who
> tried to blow up the English Parliament.

Everybody likes fireworks!

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Where do your SOCKS
                                  at               go when you lose them in
                               visi.com            th' WASHER?


From jliu6302 at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 18 10:38:05 2009
From: jliu6302 at yahoo.com (John Liu)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 07:38:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: listen and receive the stock price from a VPN
Message-ID: <685566.50872.qm@web53801.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hi, My friends
?
I am trying a Pyhton script to connect a VPN with (IP address, user ID, and passwrod).
?
suppose I need to use Socket to connect the VPN and compare to a list of stock tickers I want to receive. 
?
Is there any wasy way and fast way to do that?
?
Thanks so much in advance.
?
Kindly regards,
?
John


      
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From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Tue Aug 18 10:54:34 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 07:54:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: GUI interface builder for python
References: 
	<21bca3cf-b2c7-47d7-9142-26c9fd015f92@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com> 
	<02ec7cd9-e749-46d3-8b25-75d85794f292@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On 17 Aug, 17:19, Che M  wrote:

> Boa (Boa Constructor) is really nice for wxPython GUI
> work, but it has some bugs when using Linux that might
> be dealbreakers for the user. ?At least I have had
> problems on Ubuntu 8.10 64 bit (but none or very few
>

I prefer wxFormBuilder over Boa.


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Tue Aug 18 10:54:36 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 18 Aug 2009 14:54:36 GMT
Subject: Code formatting question: conditional expression
References: 
Message-ID: <0014440c$0$2963$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:04:36 -0400, John Posner wrote:

> While refactoring some code, I ran across an opportunity to use a
> conditional expression. Original:
> 
>   if total > P.BASE:
>       excessblk = Block(total - P.BASE, srccol,
>       carry_button_suppress=True)
>   else:
>       excessblk = None
> 
> Is there any consensus on how to format a conditional expression that is
> too long for one line?

Er, that defeats the purpose of using a conditional expression. If it's 
too long for one line, leave it as an if...else statement.

> How about this:
> 
>   excessblk = (Block(total - P.BASE, srccol, carry_button_suppress=True)
>                if total > P.BASE else
>                None)

If you insist on using the conditional expression, my preference would be:

  excessblk = (
    Block(total - P.BASE, srccol, carry_button_suppress=True)
    if total > P.BASE else None
    )


-- 
Steven


From jjposner at optimum.net  Tue Aug 18 10:58:05 2009
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:58:05 -0400
Subject: Code formatting question: conditional expression
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A8AC17D.5080602@optimum.net>

>
> My choice would be
>
> excessblk = None
> if total > P.BASE:
>     excessblk = ...
>

Diez and Jean-Michel,

Ha! Your suggestion above was my *original* coding. It looks like I'm 
evolving backwards!

But doesn't it violate the DRY principle? The token "excessblk" appears 
twice instead of once.

Thanks again,
John



From dmitrey.kroshko at scipy.org  Tue Aug 18 11:19:12 2009
From: dmitrey.kroshko at scipy.org (dmitrey)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 08:19:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: simplest way to visit 3 subdirectories with a command?
Message-ID: <487d46f0-db01-4134-b9a8-8360f5dc82f6@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

hi all,
could you inform how to compose a py-file (for soft installation),
that will visit 3 subdirectories (eg subdir1, subdir2, subdir3) and
invoke a command "python setup.py install" in each subdirectory?
I know there should be a simple solution available in Python
documentation, but I have an awful lots of other things to be done, so
could someone write these several lines of code?

Thank you in advance, D.


From R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk  Tue Aug 18 11:27:52 2009
From: R.Brodie at rl.ac.uk (Richard Brodie)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:27:52 +0100
Subject: Code formatting question: conditional expression
References: 
Message-ID: 


"John Posner"  wrote in message 
news:mailman.26.1250604346.2854.python-list at python.org...

>  if total > P.BASE:
>      excessblk = Block(total - P.BASE, srccol, carry_button_suppress=True)
>  else:
>      excessblk = None

I wonder if it is appropriate to replace the None sentinel with one that is an instance
of Block() e.g.

size = total - P.BASE
excessblk = Block(size, srccol, carry_button_suppress=True, empty_block=(size <= 0) )




From holdenweb at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 11:55:54 2009
From: holdenweb at gmail.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 08:55:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> 
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <90cd2c33-5f2d-4a29-b267-67f233ae2946@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>

> > Robert Dailey:
[...]
>
> It's a figure of speech. And besides, why would I want programming
> advice from a woman? lol. Thanks for the help.

Sorry, Robert, simply not acceptable. Whether designed to be funny or
not it's the kind of inane remark I would be really happy never to see
again.

The problem is that we can't just "let these things go by" all the
time (even though we aren't discussing a major crime here). If we do
that it encourages (at best) an atmosphere of complacency and a
feeling that it's OK to demean people in Python forums. I'd really
like to see those *not* get a hold.

regards
 Steve


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Aug 18 11:57:01 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:57:01 +0200
Subject: Code formatting question: conditional expression
In-Reply-To: <4A8AC17D.5080602@optimum.net>
References: 
	<4A8AC17D.5080602@optimum.net>
Message-ID: <4A8ACF4D.2080805@sequans.com>

John Posner wrote:
>>
>> My choice would be
>>
>> excessblk = None
>> if total > P.BASE:
>>     excessblk = ...
>>
>
> Diez and Jean-Michel,
>
> Ha! Your suggestion above was my *original* coding. It looks like I'm 
> evolving backwards!
>
> But doesn't it violate the DRY principle? The token "excessblk" 
> appears twice instead of once.
>
> Thanks again,
> John
>
I don't see any problem in that. You are hunting poor readability, not 
redundancy, it's up to you to decide of you priorities. I would still 
advise that readability should rule your world.

JM






From deets at nospam.web.de  Tue Aug 18 11:57:28 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:57:28 +0200
Subject: Start-up program
References: 
Message-ID: <7f01b8F2hfu8qU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Virgil Stokes wrote:

> How difficult is to create a program that will be executed when Windows
> Vista is started? As Windows Calendar does, for example.
> 
> I am actually more interested in the Python tools that might be used for
> this task. I hope that this question is not inappropriate for the list.

There are many discussions here about creating an exe (py2exe) that you
could start in autostart, and how to run scripts as windows services, which
is the other option.

Just google a bit.

Diez


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Aug 18 12:00:09 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 18:00:09 +0200
Subject: Start-up program
In-Reply-To: <4A8ABA78.8050605@it.uu.se>
References: <4A8ABA78.8050605@it.uu.se>
Message-ID: <4A8AD009.5050005@sequans.com>

Virgil Stokes wrote:
> How difficult is to create a program that will be executed when 
> Windows Vista is started? As Windows Calendar does, for example.
>
> I am actually more interested in the Python tools that might be used 
> for this task. I hope that this question is not inappropriate for the 
> list. :-\
>
> --V
>
Well put your program in your startup folder or configure it as a 
service in the service manager of windows.

Now your problem becomes "How difficult is to create a program" for 
which there is no easy answer as it really depends on the kind of program.

JM


From madzientist at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 12:04:54 2009
From: madzientist at gmail.com (madzientist)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 09:04:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Mac OS 9.2
Message-ID: <96ab6db4-55c5-4142-8ef8-d7fbe97e4c4d@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

hi,

i have to work with mac OS 9.2 for legacy reasons...is there a
compiled version of python for this os ? i need to get input about
variable values from the user and then print out some text files that
make use of this input. a gui would be nice, but keyboard based input
would be ok too...

thanks much,

suresh

ps. if there isn't a version of pythn that will work, perhaps you
could suggest some other scripting language for 0S 9.2 ?


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Tue Aug 18 12:09:24 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:09:24 +0100
Subject: Start-up program
In-Reply-To: <4A8ABA78.8050605@it.uu.se>
References: <4A8ABA78.8050605@it.uu.se>
Message-ID: <4A8AD234.7050205@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Virgil Stokes wrote:
> How difficult is to create a program that will be executed when Windows 
> Vista is started? As Windows Calendar does, for example.
> 
> I am actually more interested in the Python tools that might be used for 
> this task. I hope that this question is not inappropriate for the list. :-\
> 
Look for the Windows Startup folder. A quick search with Google found:

     http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/topic85142.html



From nirvana117 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 12:49:55 2009
From: nirvana117 at gmail.com (dou dou)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 00:49:55 +0800
Subject: problem with interface of operator.itemgetter
In-Reply-To: <50f98a4c0908161132o4bf73e80lf306f89108c1e669@mail.gmail.com>
References: <19b355330908132016y49f2679u631c3123fcfc920a@mail.gmail.com>
	<50f98a4c0908161132o4bf73e80lf306f89108c1e669@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <19b355330908180949x2f8635dfk39ae892a9f6943b2@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/17 Simon Forman 

>  You can use a little helper function to create your itemgetter like this:
>
> def makeItemGetter(indexes):
>    I = itemgetter(*indexes)
>    if len(indexes) > 1:
>        return I
>    return lambda thing: (I(thing),)
>
> If indexes contains only one index the itemgetter is wrapped in a
> lambda that turns its output into a tuple.


Thanks. I just thought if the stdlib could support some function like item*s
*getter would be better, it always returns tuple instead of a item or a
tuple of items.
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From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Aug 18 13:05:49 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 19:05:49 +0200
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
In-Reply-To: <90cd2c33-5f2d-4a29-b267-67f233ae2946@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
References: 	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<90cd2c33-5f2d-4a29-b267-67f233ae2946@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A8ADF6D.2030405@sequans.com>

Steve Holden wrote:
>>> Robert Dailey:
>>>       
> [...]
>   
>> It's a figure of speech. And besides, why would I want programming
>> advice from a woman? lol. Thanks for the help.
>>     
>
> Sorry, Robert, simply not acceptable. Whether designed to be funny or
> not it's the kind of inane remark I would be really happy never to see
> again.
>
> The problem is that we can't just "let these things go by" all the
> time (even though we aren't discussing a major crime here). If we do
> that it encourages (at best) an atmosphere of complacency and a
> feeling that it's OK to demean people in Python forums. I'd really
> like to see those *not* get a hold.
>
> regards
>  Steve
>   
Did you read the original post (this is an old one) ? Because quoting a 
joke out of its context is totally unfair.
Anyway the hysteria that is surrounding this thread is just amazing. I'm 
waiting for more.

JM



From james.harris.1 at googlemail.com  Tue Aug 18 13:09:29 2009
From: james.harris.1 at googlemail.com (James Harris)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:09:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Identifying a class type - bad practice?
Message-ID: <5a6e91f5-83c1-42a3-ab8a-082c4d8e840c@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

I am writing some code to form a tree of nodes of different types. The
idea is to define one class per node type such as

class node_type_1(node):
  
class node_type_2(node):
  
etc

(Class "node" would hold any common properties).

When walking the tree I need to know what type of node I'm dealing
with so polymorphism isn't generally useful. The action to be taken
depends on the node type. Two options appear to be useful: __class__
and isinstance. I know the latter will match the instance against any
superclass and the former will match one class only.

My question is: is this the Pythonic way to deal with such a tree? Is
there a better way? In C I would use structs where one field was a tag
indicating the kind of struct.

James


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Tue Aug 18 13:11:54 2009
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 12:11:54 -0500
Subject: simplest way to visit 3 subdirectories with a command?
In-Reply-To: <487d46f0-db01-4134-b9a8-8360f5dc82f6@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <487d46f0-db01-4134-b9a8-8360f5dc82f6@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A8AE0DA.1080909@tim.thechases.com>

> could you inform how to compose a py-file (for soft installation),
> that will visit 3 subdirectories (eg subdir1, subdir2, subdir3) and
> invoke a command "python setup.py install" in each subdirectory?
> I know there should be a simple solution available in Python

If you're executing "python setup.py install", that sounds like 
you're operating at the shell level, not within python.  In which 
case, I'd just use my shell's iteration capabilities:

   # running bash on a *nix-like OS
   bash$ for dir in subdir1 subdir2 subdir3; do pushd $dir; 
python setup.py install; popd; done

   # running within Win32's cmd.exe
   c:\temp\> for %f in (subdir1 subdir2 subdir3) do pushd %f & 
python setup.py install & popd

or something of the sort.  Remember in Win32 that the variables 
have to be escaped if you put them in a batch file ("%%f" instead 
of "%f")

-tkc






From seldan24 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 13:18:42 2009
From: seldan24 at gmail.com (seldan24)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:18:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Using a Callback Function - ftplib
References: <76875cdd-30c4-4a3b-8a16-d0e2061765d7@v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	<1euafoc8zeh0q.91hedjv5ueuh$.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 18, 6:02?am, Nitebirdz  wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 11:10:25AM -0700, seldan24 wrote:
>
> > I didn't even notice the higher level methods. ?I changed the
> > retrieval line to:
>
> > ftp.nlst("testfile*.txt")
>
> > This works great. ?The result is even captured in an array. ?I really
> > have no idea what the difference between a LIST and NLST is within
> > FTP. ?Never delved that deep into it. ?I did notice that an NLST will
> > return a specific FTP code if a file doesn't exist, whereas a LIST
> > doesn't. ?So, I ended up using NLST as that'll generate an
> > ftplib.error_perm exception. ?Based on if the job cares if a file is
> > not available or not (some do, some don't), I'll either exit, or
> > continue on with the file loop.
>
> The following thread from a NetBSD mailing list may help clarify this
> issue:
>
> http://mail-index.netbsd.org/netbsd-users/2001/01/30/0016.html
>
> NLST returns a machine-readable list of names, while LIST returns a
> human-readable list. ?Hene the presence of the FTP code in the case of
> NLST. ?

Nitebirdz,

Thanks for the information.  I knew it stood for 'named list' but had
no idea how that differed from the standard.  I appreciate the link.


From madzientist at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 13:19:10 2009
From: madzientist at gmail.com (madzientist)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:19:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Mac OS 9.2
References: <96ab6db4-55c5-4142-8ef8-d7fbe97e4c4d@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5ed2205e-9542-44c3-a8b7-70f52b0d09cb@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>


ok, i found macpython 2.3 at this site: http://homepages.cwi.nl/~jack/macpython/macpython-older.html

is this the best option for me in terms of using python on os 9.2 ?

thanks much !!

suresh


On Aug 18, 6:04?pm, madzientist  wrote:
> hi,
>
> i have to work with mac OS 9.2 for legacy reasons...is there a
> compiled version of python for this os ? i need to get input about
> variable values from the user and then print out some text files that
> make use of this input. a gui would be nice, but keyboard based input
> would be ok too...
>
> thanks much,
>
> suresh
>
> ps. if there isn't a version of pythn that will work, perhaps you
> could suggest some other scripting language for 0S 9.2 ?



From jjposner at optimum.net  Tue Aug 18 13:25:46 2009
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:25:46 -0400
Subject: Code formatting question: conditional expression
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A8AE41A.3060107@optimum.net>


> I wonder if it is appropriate to replace the None sentinel with one that is an instance
> of Block() e.g.
>
> size = total - P.BASE
> excessblk = Block(size, srccol, carry_button_suppress=True, empty_block=(size <= 0) )
>   

In this particular case, Richard, I don't think so. The Block class is 
an application-level wrapper for a graphical object. I don't want to 
worry about zero-size objects. ("Is this column really empty, or does it 
contain one or more zero-size blocks?") If you're interested, take a 
look at "BlockHead" at www.jjposner.net.

BTW, from the (admittedly few) responses to my original post, it seems 
there's some sentiment that "conditional expressions" are a non-Pythonic 
misfeature. Interesting ...

-John





From chris at simplistix.co.uk  Tue Aug 18 13:39:10 2009
From: chris at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 18:39:10 +0100
Subject: xlutils 1.4.0 released!
Message-ID: <4A8AE73E.9030504@simplistix.co.uk>

Hi All,

I'm pleased to announce a new release of xlutils. This is a small
collection of utilities that make use of both xlrd and xlwt to process
Microsoft Excel files. The changes for this release are as follows:

- Add sheet density information and onesheet option to
   xlutils.margins.

- Reduced the memory footprint of xlutils.filter.ColumnTrimmer at the
   expense of speed.

- Fixed incorrect warnings about boolean cells in
   xlutils.filter.ErrorFilter. xlwt has always supported boolean
   cells.

- xlutils.filter.BaseReader now opens workbooks with on_demand = True

- Added support for xlrd Books opened with on_demand as True passed to
   open_workbook.

- Fixed bug when copying error cells.

- Requires the latest versions of xlrd (0.7.1) and xlwt (0.7.2).

To find out more, please read here:

http://www.simplistix.co.uk/software/python/xlutils

In case you're not aware, xlrd and xlwt are two excellent pure-python
libraries for reading and writing Excel files. They run on any platform
and, likely, any implementation of Python without the need for horrific
things like binding to Excel via COM and so needing a Windows machine.

If you use any of xlrd, xlwt or xlutils, the following google group will
be of use:

http://groups.google.com.au/group/python-excel

Hope some of this is of interest, I'd love to hear from anyone who ends
up using it!

cheers,

Chris

-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting
            - http://www.simplistix.co.uk





From rcdailey at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 14:19:28 2009
From: rcdailey at gmail.com (Robert Dailey)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:19:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Parallelization in Python 2.6
Message-ID: <9d9e7278-d855-4066-b090-46d5060dc051@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

I'm looking for a way to parallelize my python script without using
typical threading primitives. For example, C++ has pthreads and TBB to
break things into "tasks". I would like to see something like this for
python. So, if I have a very linear script:

doStuff1()
doStuff2()


I can parallelize it easily like so:

create_task( doStuff1 )
create_task( doStuff2 )

Both of these functions would be called from new threads, and once
execution ends the threads would die. I realize this is a simple
example and I could create my own classes for this functionality, but
I do not want to bother if a solution already exists.

Thanks in advance.


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Tue Aug 18 14:41:18 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 20:41:18 +0200
Subject: Parallelization in Python 2.6
In-Reply-To: <9d9e7278-d855-4066-b090-46d5060dc051@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
References: <9d9e7278-d855-4066-b090-46d5060dc051@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a8af5ce$0$30224$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net>

Robert Dailey wrote:
> I'm looking for a way to parallelize my python script without using
> typical threading primitives. For example, C++ has pthreads and TBB to
> break things into "tasks". I would like to see something like this for
> python. So, if I have a very linear script:
> 
> doStuff1()
> doStuff2()
> 
> 
> I can parallelize it easily like so:
> 
> create_task( doStuff1 )
> create_task( doStuff2 )
> 
> Both of these functions would be called from new threads, and once
> execution ends the threads would die. I realize this is a simple
> example and I could create my own classes for this functionality, but
> I do not want to bother if a solution already exists.

I think the canonical answer is to use the threading module or (preferably)
the multiprocessing module, which is new in Py2.6.

http://docs.python.org/library/threading.html
http://docs.python.org/library/multiprocessing.html

Both share a (mostly) common interface and are simple enough to use. They
are pretty close to the above interface already.

Stefan


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Tue Aug 18 14:43:36 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:43:36 -0700
Subject: Code formatting question: conditional expression
In-Reply-To: <4A8AE41A.3060107@optimum.net>
References: 
	<4A8AE41A.3060107@optimum.net>
Message-ID: <4A8AF658.4090400@stoneleaf.us>

John Posner wrote:
> 
> BTW, from the (admittedly few) responses to my original post, it seems 
> there's some sentiment that "conditional expressions" are a non-Pythonic 
> misfeature. Interesting ...
> 
> -John
> 
> 
> 

I didn't read it that way.  One of the (to me) core points of Pythonic 
is readability.  A conditional expression on one line is fine -- a 
conditional expression on more than one line is less readable than the 
standard if-else structure.

~Ethan~


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Tue Aug 18 15:08:42 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 12:08:42 -0700
Subject: Identifying a class type - bad practice?
In-Reply-To: <5a6e91f5-83c1-42a3-ab8a-082c4d8e840c@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <5a6e91f5-83c1-42a3-ab8a-082c4d8e840c@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A8AFC3A.4000608@stoneleaf.us>

James Harris wrote:
> I am writing some code to form a tree of nodes of different types. The
> idea is to define one class per node type such as
> 
> class node_type_1(node):
>   
> class node_type_2(node):
>   
> etc
> 
> (Class "node" would hold any common properties).
> 
> When walking the tree I need to know what type of node I'm dealing
> with so polymorphism isn't generally useful. The action to be taken
> depends on the node type. Two options appear to be useful: __class__
> and isinstance. I know the latter will match the instance against any
> superclass and the former will match one class only.
> 
> My question is: is this the Pythonic way to deal with such a tree? Is
> there a better way? In C I would use structs where one field was a tag
> indicating the kind of struct.
> 
> James

I would recommend going with isinstance.  An instance of node_type_2 
will not be an instance node_type_1, so no worries there, and it leaves 
open the option of subclassing further if you need to later on.

~Ethan~


From andre.roberge at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 15:24:18 2009
From: andre.roberge at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9?=)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 12:24:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Identifying a class type - bad practice?
References: <5a6e91f5-83c1-42a3-ab8a-082c4d8e840c@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0aab1195-8ae5-4550-993f-bec9aca7e27e@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 18, 2:09?pm, James Harris 
wrote:
> I am writing some code to form a tree of nodes of different types. The
> idea is to define one class per node type such as
>
> class node_type_1(node):
> ? 
> class node_type_2(node):
> ? 
> etc
>
> (Class "node" would hold any common properties).
>
> When walking the tree I need to know what type of node I'm dealing
> with so polymorphism isn't generally useful. The action to be taken
> depends on the node type. Two options appear to be useful: __class__
> and isinstance. I know the latter will match the instance against any
> superclass and the former will match one class only.
>
> My question is: is this the Pythonic way to deal with such a tree? Is
> there a better way? In C I would use structs where one field was a tag
> indicating the kind of struct.
>
> James

I would probably go with hasattr(instance, 'what_I_want')

Andr?


From sajmikins at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 15:42:10 2009
From: sajmikins at gmail.com (Simon Forman)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 15:42:10 -0400
Subject: comparing XML files to eachother
In-Reply-To: <9583ed900908171251k50fafaefrd626439bf1bd9a3c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9583ed900908171251k50fafaefrd626439bf1bd9a3c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50f98a4c0908181242w734a3b64k68b8928bdef0c88d@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 3:51 PM, David Brochu wrote:
> I need to compare one xml document to another to see if the content matches.
> Unfortunately, the formatting (spacing) and order of elements may change
> between files from run to run. I have looked into xml dom minidom but can't
> seem to find how to accomplish this. Does anyone know how I can do a compare
> between two XML documents using the STL?

It seems to me that you're going to have to "normalize" the documents
to be able to compare them.  (I.e. strip or ignore spacing
differences, sort the elements to be in the same order, etc..)


From pavpanchekha at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 15:44:55 2009
From: pavpanchekha at gmail.com (Pavel Panchekha)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 12:44:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Inheriting dictionary
Message-ID: <95736695-29b5-4185-8764-8eca140b76d2@e18g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>

I want a dictionary that will transparently "inherit" from a parent
dictionary. So, for example:

"""
a = InheritDict({1: "one", 2: "two", 4: "four"})
b = InheritDict({3: "three", 4: "foobar"}, inherit_from=a)

a[1] # "one"
a[4] # "four"
b[1] # "one"
b[3] # "three"
b[4] # "foobar"
"""

I've written something like this in Python already, but I'm wondering
if something like this already exists, preferably written in C, for
speed.


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Tue Aug 18 15:48:58 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 21:48:58 +0200
Subject: Code formatting question: conditional expression
In-Reply-To: <0014440c$0$2963$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 
	<0014440c$0$2963$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

18-08-2009 Steven D'Aprano  wrote:

> On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:04:36 -0400, John Posner wrote:
>
[snip]
>> How about this:
>>
>>   excessblk = (Block(total - P.BASE, srccol, carry_button_suppress=True)
>>                if total > P.BASE else
>>                None)
>
> If you insist on using the conditional expression, my preference would  
> be:
>
>   excessblk = (
>     Block(total - P.BASE, srccol, carry_button_suppress=True)
>     if total > P.BASE else None
>     )

Generally I'd prefer:

  excessblk = (Block(........) if total > P.BASE
               else None)

But it this case first line would be too long, then I'd try using:

  excessblk = (Block(total - P.BASE, srccol,
                     carry_button_suppress=True) if total > P.BASE
               else None)

or

  excessblk = (Block(total - P.BASE, srccol, carry_button_suppress=True)
               if total > P.BASE else None)

I'd use conditional expression only (rather) in situation when the first
expression-part was 'common' and the other (after else) was 'rare'.

Cheers,
*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From code at pizzashack.org  Tue Aug 18 16:10:15 2009
From: code at pizzashack.org (Derek Martin)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 15:10:15 -0500
Subject: basic thread question
Message-ID: <20090818201015.GP20434@dragontoe.org>

I have some simple threaded code...  If I run this
with an arg of 1 (start one thread), it pegs one cpu, as I would
expect.  If I run it with an arg of 2 (start 2 threads), it uses both
CPUs, but utilization of both is less than 50%.  Can anyone explain
why?  

I do not pretend it's impeccable code, and I'm not looking for a
critiqe of the code per se, excepting the case where what I've written
is actually *wrong*. I hacked this together in a couple of minutes,
with the intent of pegging my CPUs.  Performance with two threads is
actually *worse* than with one, which is highly unintuitive.  I can
accomplish my goal very easily with bash, but I still want to
understand what's going on here...

The OS is Linux 2.6.24, on a Ubuntu base.  Here's the code:

Thanks

-=-=-=-=-

#!/usr/bin/python

import thread, sys, time

def busy(thread):
    x=0
    while True:
        x+=1

if __name__ == '__main__':
    try:
        cpus = int(sys.argv[1])
    except ValueError:
        cpus = 1
    print "cpus = %d, argv[1] = %s\n" % (cpus, sys.argv[1])
    i=0
    thread_list = []
    while i < cpus:
        x = thread.start_new_thread(busy, (i,))
        thread_list.append(x)
        i+=1
    while True:
        pass

-- 
Derek D. Martin
http://www.pizzashack.org/
GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D

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From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Tue Aug 18 16:23:09 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 22:23:09 +0200
Subject: Inheriting dictionary
In-Reply-To: <95736695-29b5-4185-8764-8eca140b76d2@e18g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
References: <95736695-29b5-4185-8764-8eca140b76d2@e18g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

18-08-2009 o 21:44:55 Pavel Panchekha  wrote:

> I want a dictionary that will transparently "inherit" from a parent
> dictionary. So, for example:
>
> """
> a = InheritDict({1: "one", 2: "two", 4: "four"})
> b = InheritDict({3: "three", 4: "foobar"}, inherit_from=a)
>
> a[1] # "one"
> a[4] # "four"
> b[1] # "one"
> b[3] # "three"
> b[4] # "foobar"
> """
>
> I've written something like this in Python already, but I'm wondering
> if something like this already exists, preferably written in C, for
> speed.

AFAIN -- no. But you can easily implement it in Python with rather
small loss of speed...


  class InheritDict(dict):

      class NoParent(object):
          def __getitem__(self, key):
              raise KeyError('There is no %r key in the hierarchy' % key)
          def __nonzero__(self):
              return False

      noparent = NoParent()

      def __init__(self, *args, **kwargs):
          parent = kwargs.pop('inherit_from', self.noparent)
          dict.__init__(self, *args, **kwargs)
          self.parent = parent

      def __getitem__(self, key):
          try:
              return dict.__getitem__(self, key)
          except KeyError:
              return self.parent[key]


Did you do it in similar way? (just curiosity) :-)

Regards,
*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From nat.williams at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 16:27:41 2009
From: nat.williams at gmail.com (Nat Williams)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 15:27:41 -0500
Subject: Inheriting dictionary
In-Reply-To: <95736695-29b5-4185-8764-8eca140b76d2@e18g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
References: <95736695-29b5-4185-8764-8eca140b76d2@e18g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 2:44 PM, Pavel Panchekha wrote:

> I want a dictionary that will transparently "inherit" from a parent
> dictionary. So, for example:
>
> """
> a = InheritDict({1: "one", 2: "two", 4: "four"})
> b = InheritDict({3: "three", 4: "foobar"}, inherit_from=a)
>
> a[1] # "one"
> a[4] # "four"
> b[1] # "one"
> b[3] # "three"
> b[4] # "foobar"
> """
>
> I've written something like this in Python already, but I'm wondering
> if something like this already exists, preferably written in C, for
> speed.


Why complicate this with a custom object?  Just use regular dicts and make b
a copy of a.

a = {1: 'one', 2: 'two', 4: 'four'}
b = dict(a)
b[3] = 'three'
b[4] = 'foobar'
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From rcdailey at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 16:27:49 2009
From: rcdailey at gmail.com (Robert Dailey)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:27:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to create functors?
Message-ID: 

Hello,

I want to simply wrap a function up into an object so it can be called
with no parameters. The parameters that it would otherwise have taken
are already filled in. Like so:


      print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
      print1()

However, the above code fails with:

  File "C:\IT\work\distro_test\distribute_radix.py", line 286
    print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
                         ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

How can I get this working?


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Tue Aug 18 16:31:51 2009
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 18 Aug 2009 20:31:51 GMT
Subject: How to create functors?
References: 
Message-ID: 

Robert Dailey  wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I want to simply wrap a function up into an object so it can be called
> with no parameters. The parameters that it would otherwise have taken
> are already filled in. Like so:
> 
> 
>       print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
>       print1()
> 
> However, the above code fails with:
> 
>   File "C:\IT\work\distro_test\distribute_radix.py", line 286
>     print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
>                          ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
> 
> How can I get this working?

def print1():
    print "Foobar"

It looks like in your version of Python "print" isn't a function. It always 
helps if you say the exact version you are using in your question as the 
exact answer you need may vary.


From rcdailey at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 16:32:55 2009
From: rcdailey at gmail.com (Robert Dailey)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:32:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to create functors?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 18, 3:31?pm, Duncan Booth  wrote:
> Robert Dailey  wrote:
> > Hello,
>
> > I want to simply wrap a function up into an object so it can be called
> > with no parameters. The parameters that it would otherwise have taken
> > are already filled in. Like so:
>
> > ? ? ? print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
> > ? ? ? print1()
>
> > However, the above code fails with:
>
> > ? File "C:\IT\work\distro_test\distribute_radix.py", line 286
> > ? ? print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?^
> > SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>
> > How can I get this working?
>
> def print1():
> ? ? print "Foobar"
>
> It looks like in your version of Python "print" isn't a function. It always
> helps if you say the exact version you are using in your question as the
> exact answer you need may vary.

I'm using Python 2.6. And using the legacy syntax in the lambda does
not work either. I want to avoid using a def if possible. Thanks.


From pavpanchekha at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 16:32:58 2009
From: pavpanchekha at gmail.com (Pavel Panchekha)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:32:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Inheriting dictionary
References: <95736695-29b5-4185-8764-8eca140b76d2@e18g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <54699ee8-9c14-4aea-be86-06ef49be86c5@d21g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 18, 4:23?pm, "Jan Kaliszewski"  wrote:
> 18-08-2009 o 21:44:55 Pavel Panchekha  wrote:
>
>
>
> > I want a dictionary that will transparently "inherit" from a parent
> > dictionary. So, for example:
>
> > """
> > a = InheritDict({1: "one", 2: "two", 4: "four"})
> > b = InheritDict({3: "three", 4: "foobar"}, inherit_from=a)
>
> > a[1] # "one"
> > a[4] # "four"
> > b[1] # "one"
> > b[3] # "three"
> > b[4] # "foobar"
> > """
>
> > I've written something like this in Python already, but I'm wondering
> > if something like this already exists, preferably written in C, for
> > speed.
>
> AFAIN -- no. But you can easily implement it in Python with rather
> small loss of speed...
>
> ? class InheritDict(dict):
>
> ? ? ? class NoParent(object):
> ? ? ? ? ? def __getitem__(self, key):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? raise KeyError('There is no %r key in the hierarchy' % key)
> ? ? ? ? ? def __nonzero__(self):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? return False
>
> ? ? ? noparent = NoParent()
>
> ? ? ? def __init__(self, *args, **kwargs):
> ? ? ? ? ? parent = kwargs.pop('inherit_from', self.noparent)
> ? ? ? ? ? dict.__init__(self, *args, **kwargs)
> ? ? ? ? ? self.parent = parent
>
> ? ? ? def __getitem__(self, key):
> ? ? ? ? ? try:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? return dict.__getitem__(self, key)
> ? ? ? ? ? except KeyError:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? return self.parent[key]
>
> Did you do it in similar way? (just curiosity) :-)
>
> Regards,
> *j
>
> --
> Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 

I implemented it in a similar way (instead of a try block, an if
block, which works a tiny bit faster; also have a multiple-parents
case, but its rare, and I could do that in Python without much loss of
speed). Pity that there's no C version; this InheritDict is kind of
the core of my application (in a very basic test, I have 329901 calls
to __getitem__).

Oh well; I'll see if I can optimize the __getattr__ function with
minor tweaking. Thanks for your help.


From rcdailey at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 16:36:07 2009
From: rcdailey at gmail.com (Robert Dailey)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:36:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to create functors?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 18, 3:31?pm, Duncan Booth  wrote:
> Robert Dailey  wrote:
> > Hello,
>
> > I want to simply wrap a function up into an object so it can be called
> > with no parameters. The parameters that it would otherwise have taken
> > are already filled in. Like so:
>
> > ? ? ? print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
> > ? ? ? print1()
>
> > However, the above code fails with:
>
> > ? File "C:\IT\work\distro_test\distribute_radix.py", line 286
> > ? ? print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?^
> > SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>
> > How can I get this working?
>
> def print1():
> ? ? print "Foobar"
>
> It looks like in your version of Python "print" isn't a function. It always
> helps if you say the exact version you are using in your question as the
> exact answer you need may vary.

Seems like it works fine on everything else except for print(). For
example:

print1 = lambda: MyFunction( "FooBar" )

The syntax above is accepted by the interpreter.


From sajmikins at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 16:37:21 2009
From: sajmikins at gmail.com (Simon Forman)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:37:21 -0400
Subject: define class over 2 files
In-Reply-To: 
References: <7de550a5-64af-4f40-a7fc-e3c449d0dce9@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <50f98a4c0908181337q6295f977ubcf8edab02fef5cb@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 1:57 AM, Steven
D'Aprano wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 21:45:57 -0700, naveen wrote:
>
>> Is it possible to split up a class definition over multiple files?
>
> Not exactly, but you can do variations of this:
>
>
> In file A.py, create:
>
> class Parent:
> ? ?def method(self):
> ? ? ? ?return "Method"
>
>
> In file B.py, do this:
>
> import A
> class Child(B.parent):

class Child(A.Parent):


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Tue Aug 18 16:40:37 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:40:37 -0700
Subject: How to create functors?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908181340n48f510cdx79ee9ceeb416d4a5@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 1:32 PM, Robert Dailey wrote:
> On Aug 18, 3:31?pm, Duncan Booth  wrote:
>> Robert Dailey  wrote:
>> > Hello,
>>
>> > I want to simply wrap a function up into an object so it can be called
>> > with no parameters. The parameters that it would otherwise have taken
>> > are already filled in. Like so:
>>
>> > ? ? ? print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
>> > ? ? ? print1()
>>
>> > However, the above code fails with:
>>
>> > ? File "C:\IT\work\distro_test\distribute_radix.py", line 286
>> > ? ? print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
>> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?^
>> > SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>>
>> > How can I get this working?
>>
>> def print1():
>> ? ? print "Foobar"
>>
>> It looks like in your version of Python "print" isn't a function. It always
>> helps if you say the exact version you are using in your question as the
>> exact answer you need may vary.
>
> I'm using Python 2.6. And using the legacy syntax in the lambda does
> not work either. I want to avoid using a def if possible. Thanks.

chris at morpheus ~ $ python
Python 2.6.2 (r262:71600, May 14 2009, 16:34:51)
[GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Inc. build 5484)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
  File "", line 1
    print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
                         ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>>> from __future__ import print_function
>>> print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
>>> print1()
Foobar

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Tue Aug 18 16:41:16 2009
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:41:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Parallelization in Python 2.6
References: <9d9e7278-d855-4066-b090-46d5060dc051@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <17baaedc-2eeb-4ede-b416-afed3c2b0fc8@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 18, 11:19?am, Robert Dailey  wrote:
> I'm looking for a way to parallelize my python script without using
> typical threading primitives. For example, C++ has pthreads and TBB to
> break things into "tasks". I would like to see something like this for
> python. So, if I have a very linear script:
>
> doStuff1()
> doStuff2()
>
> I can parallelize it easily like so:
>
> create_task( doStuff1 )
> create_task( doStuff2 )
>
> Both of these functions would be called from new threads, and once
> execution ends the threads would die. I realize this is a simple
> example and I could create my own classes for this functionality, but
> I do not want to bother if a solution already exists.
>

If you haven't heard of the Python GIL, you'll want to find out sooner
rather than later. Short summary: Python doesn't do threading very
well.

There are quite a few parallelization solutions out there for Python,
however. (I don't know what they are off the top of my head, however.)
The way they work is they have worker processes that can be spread
across machines. When you want to parallelize a task, you send off a
function to those worker threads.

There are some serious caveats and problems, not the least of which is
sharing code between the worker threads and the director, so this
isn't a great solution.

If you're looking for highly parallelized code, Python may not be the
right answer. Try something like Erlang or Haskell.


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Tue Aug 18 16:42:46 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 22:42:46 +0200
Subject: define class over 2 files
In-Reply-To: <2d56febf0908172158l760256rc703d7d87f04e509@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7de550a5-64af-4f40-a7fc-e3c449d0dce9@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<2d56febf0908172158l760256rc703d7d87f04e509@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

18-08-2009 o 06:58:58 Xavier Ho  wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 2:45 PM, naveen  wrote:
>
>> Is it possible to split up a class definition over multiple files?
>> -
> Answer in short, I don't think so.

Why not?

---------
File a.py:

  class MyClass:
      def foo(self, x):
          return x * 6

---------
File b.py:

  import a
  def bar(self):
      print 'bar'
  def baz(self, a):
      print self.foooo(a)

  # adding methods by hand:
  a.MyClass.bar = bar
  a.MyClass.baz = baz

---------
File c.py

  import a
  def foooo(self, a):
      return a * self.foo(4)
  def baaar(self):
      print self.baz('tralala')
  def bazzz(self):
      print 'bzzzzzzzzzz'

  # adding methods more automaticly:
  for name, obj in globals().values():
      setattr(a.MyClass, name, obj)


>  Now why would you want to do that?

It's a good question. As others said it's very probable that some other
solution would be better (e.g. inheritance).

Cheers,
*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From rcdailey at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 16:42:59 2009
From: rcdailey at gmail.com (Robert Dailey)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:42:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to create functors?
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: <5834f36f-b172-4e76-ad90-7056e7097cdd@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 18, 3:40?pm, Chris Rebert  wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 1:32 PM, Robert Dailey wrote:
> > On Aug 18, 3:31?pm, Duncan Booth  wrote:
> >> Robert Dailey  wrote:
> >> > Hello,
>
> >> > I want to simply wrap a function up into an object so it can be called
> >> > with no parameters. The parameters that it would otherwise have taken
> >> > are already filled in. Like so:
>
> >> > ? ? ? print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
> >> > ? ? ? print1()
>
> >> > However, the above code fails with:
>
> >> > ? File "C:\IT\work\distro_test\distribute_radix.py", line 286
> >> > ? ? print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
> >> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?^
> >> > SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>
> >> > How can I get this working?
>
> >> def print1():
> >> ? ? print "Foobar"
>
> >> It looks like in your version of Python "print" isn't a function. It always
> >> helps if you say the exact version you are using in your question as the
> >> exact answer you need may vary.
>
> > I'm using Python 2.6. And using the legacy syntax in the lambda does
> > not work either. I want to avoid using a def if possible. Thanks.
>
> chris at morpheus ~ $ python
> Python 2.6.2 (r262:71600, May 14 2009, 16:34:51)
> [GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Inc. build 5484)] on darwin
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.>>> print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
>
> ? File "", line 1
> ? ? print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax>>> from __future__ import print_function
> >>> print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
> >>> print1()
>
> Foobar
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --http://blog.rebertia.com

I see what you're saying now. However, why am I able to use print as a
function in general-purpose code in my Python 2.6 script, like so:

def SomeFunction():
   print( "Hello World" )

But, I am not able to do this:

SomeFunction = lambda: print( "Hello World" )

??????

Doesn't make sense.


From rcdailey at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 16:45:38 2009
From: rcdailey at gmail.com (Robert Dailey)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:45:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Parallelization in Python 2.6
References: <9d9e7278-d855-4066-b090-46d5060dc051@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<17baaedc-2eeb-4ede-b416-afed3c2b0fc8@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <54899d05-8e9b-4b91-b79d-9839cddfe2d7@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 18, 3:41?pm, Jonathan Gardner 
wrote:
> On Aug 18, 11:19?am, Robert Dailey  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I'm looking for a way to parallelize my python script without using
> > typical threading primitives. For example, C++ has pthreads and TBB to
> > break things into "tasks". I would like to see something like this for
> > python. So, if I have a very linear script:
>
> > doStuff1()
> > doStuff2()
>
> > I can parallelize it easily like so:
>
> > create_task( doStuff1 )
> > create_task( doStuff2 )
>
> > Both of these functions would be called from new threads, and once
> > execution ends the threads would die. I realize this is a simple
> > example and I could create my own classes for this functionality, but
> > I do not want to bother if a solution already exists.
>
> If you haven't heard of the Python GIL, you'll want to find out sooner
> rather than later. Short summary: Python doesn't do threading very
> well.
>
> There are quite a few parallelization solutions out there for Python,
> however. (I don't know what they are off the top of my head, however.)
> The way they work is they have worker processes that can be spread
> across machines. When you want to parallelize a task, you send off a
> function to those worker threads.
>
> There are some serious caveats and problems, not the least of which is
> sharing code between the worker threads and the director, so this
> isn't a great solution.
>
> If you're looking for highly parallelized code, Python may not be the
> right answer. Try something like Erlang or Haskell.

Really, all I'm trying to do is the most trivial type of
parallelization. Take two functions, execute them in parallel. This
type of parallelization is called "embarrassingly parallel", and is
the simplest form. There are no dependencies between the two
functions. They do requires read-only access to shared data, though.
And if they are being spawned as sub-processes this could cause
problems, unless the multiprocess module creates pipelines or other
means to handle this situation.


From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 16:45:50 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:45:50 -0700
Subject: How to create functors?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

Lambda expressions are, I believe, syntactically limited to a single  
expression -- no statements, like 'print' is in Python 2.x.

If you are strongly against just defining a function, you might have to  
use a trick to get around it -- this page  
(http://p-nand-q.com/python/stupid_lambda_tricks.html) has some  
suggestions.

On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:32:55 -0700, Robert Dailey   
wrote:

> On Aug 18, 3:31?pm, Duncan Booth  wrote:
>> Robert Dailey  wrote:
>> > Hello,
>>
>> > I want to simply wrap a function up into an object so it can be called
>> > with no parameters. The parameters that it would otherwise have taken
>> > are already filled in. Like so:
>>
>> > ? ? ? print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
>> > ? ? ? print1()
>>
>> > However, the above code fails with:
>>
>> > ? File "C:\IT\work\distro_test\distribute_radix.py", line 286
>> > ? ? print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
>> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?^
>> > SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>>
>> > How can I get this working?
>>
>> def print1():
>> ? ? print "Foobar"
>>
>> It looks like in your version of Python "print" isn't a function. It  
>> always
>> helps if you say the exact version you are using in your question as the
>> exact answer you need may vary.
>
> I'm using Python 2.6. And using the legacy syntax in the lambda does
> not work either. I want to avoid using a def if possible. Thanks.



-- 
Rami Chowdhury
"Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --  
Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)


From nad at acm.org  Tue Aug 18 16:46:57 2009
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:46:57 -0700
Subject: How to create functors?
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

In article 
,
 Robert Dailey  wrote:
> On Aug 18, 3:31?pm, Duncan Booth  wrote:
> > Robert Dailey  wrote:
> > > Hello,
> >
> > > I want to simply wrap a function up into an object so it can be called
> > > with no parameters. The parameters that it would otherwise have taken
> > > are already filled in. Like so:
> >
> > > ? ? ? print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
> > > ? ? ? print1()
> >
> > > However, the above code fails with:
> >
> > > ? File "C:\IT\work\distro_test\distribute_radix.py", line 286
> > > ? ? print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
> > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?^
> > > SyntaxError: invalid syntax
> >
> > > How can I get this working?
> >
> > def print1():
> > ? ? print "Foobar"
> >
> > It looks like in your version of Python "print" isn't a function. It always
> > helps if you say the exact version you are using in your question as the
> > exact answer you need may vary.
> 
> I'm using Python 2.6. And using the legacy syntax in the lambda does
> not work either. I want to avoid using a def if possible. Thanks.

The problem is that in Python 2 print is a statement, not a function.  
That should work fine in Python 3 where print *is* a function.  In 2.x, 
you can wrap print in a function or use something like:

>>> import sys
>>> print1 = lambda: sys.stdout.write("Foobar\n")
>>> print1()
Foobar

or the pprint library module or various other solutions.

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org



From malaclypse2 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 16:49:34 2009
From: malaclypse2 at gmail.com (Jerry Hill)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:49:34 -0400
Subject: How to create functors?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <16651e80908181349l20efec3do7148c7ef1f2657cb@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 4:27 PM, Robert Dailey wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I want to simply wrap a function up into an object so it can be called
> with no parameters. The parameters that it would otherwise have taken
> are already filled in. Like so:
>
>
> ? ? ?print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
> ? ? ?print1()
>
> However, the above code fails with:
>
> ?File "C:\IT\work\distro_test\distribute_radix.py", line 286
> ? ?print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>
> How can I get this working?

You can't, at least not with that example.  Lambdas are restricted to
a single expression[1]. Print is not an expression, it's a
statement[2].

I'm guessing that your use case is not really in wrapping a print
statement in an anonymous function. Given the first part of your
message, you might find something of use in the functools module,
particularly functools.partial [3].

1: http://docs.python.org/tutorial/controlflow.html#lambda-forms
2: http://docs.python.org/reference/simple_stmts.html
3: http://docs.python.org/library/functools.html#functools.partial

-- 
Jerry


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Tue Aug 18 16:50:27 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:50:27 -0700
Subject: Identifying a class type - bad practice?
In-Reply-To: <5a6e91f5-83c1-42a3-ab8a-082c4d8e840c@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <5a6e91f5-83c1-42a3-ab8a-082c4d8e840c@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908181350x5bbfd8e9qe1b7e1d3c13bf49e@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 10:09 AM, James
Harris wrote:
> I am writing some code to form a tree of nodes of different types. The
> idea is to define one class per node type such as
>
> class node_type_1(node):
> ?
> class node_type_2(node):
> ?
> etc
>
> (Class "node" would hold any common properties).
>
> When walking the tree I need to know what type of node I'm dealing
> with so polymorphism isn't generally useful. The action to be taken
> depends on the node type.

I'm sure it relates to the exact type of tree you're walking and the
calculation you're doing on it, but what is the reason why your code,
which in the abstract sounds like it will vaguely resemble this:

def walk_tree(tree):
    if isinstance(tree, node_type_1):
        #code
        walk_tree(subtree)
    elif isinstance(tree, node_type_2):
        #code
        walk_tree(subtree)
    #etc...

can't be written instead as:

class node_type_1:
    def walk_tree(self):
        #code
        self.subtree.walk()

class node_type_2:
    def walk_tree(self):
        #code
        self.subtree.walk()

#etc

?

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From rcdailey at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 16:51:19 2009
From: rcdailey at gmail.com (Robert Dailey)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:51:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to create functors?
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: <0866bb91-ce18-46f5-a62b-8c6cb14e13d7@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 18, 3:45?pm, "Rami Chowdhury"  wrote:
> Lambda expressions are, I believe, syntactically limited to a single ?
> expression -- no statements, like 'print' is in Python 2.x.
>
> If you are strongly against just defining a function, you might have to ?
> use a trick to get around it -- this page ?
> (http://p-nand-q.com/python/stupid_lambda_tricks.html) has some ?
> suggestions.
>
> On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:32:55 -0700, Robert Dailey  ?
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 18, 3:31?pm, Duncan Booth  wrote:
> >> Robert Dailey  wrote:
> >> > Hello,
>
> >> > I want to simply wrap a function up into an object so it can be called
> >> > with no parameters. The parameters that it would otherwise have taken
> >> > are already filled in. Like so:
>
> >> > ? ? ? print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
> >> > ? ? ? print1()
>
> >> > However, the above code fails with:
>
> >> > ? File "C:\IT\work\distro_test\distribute_radix.py", line 286
> >> > ? ? print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
> >> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?^
> >> > SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>
> >> > How can I get this working?
>
> >> def print1():
> >> ? ? print "Foobar"
>
> >> It looks like in your version of Python "print" isn't a function. It ?
> >> always
> >> helps if you say the exact version you are using in your question as the
> >> exact answer you need may vary.
>
> > I'm using Python 2.6. And using the legacy syntax in the lambda does
> > not work either. I want to avoid using a def if possible. Thanks.
>
> --
> Rami Chowdhury
> "Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" -- ?
> Hanlon's Razor
> 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)

The example I gave earlier is a bit contrived, the real example
fundamentally requires a lambda since I am actually passing in local
variables into the functions the lambda is wrapping. Example:

def MyFunction():
  localVariable = 20
  CreateTask( lambda: SomeOtherFunction( localVariable ) ) # CreateTask
() executes the functor internally

This is more or less like the real scenario I'm working with. There
are other (more personal) reasons why I prefer to avoid 'def' in this
case. I want to keep the functor as central to the code that needs it
as possible to improve code readability.

Thanks for the help everyone. I guess in Python 3.0 the print()
function will not require the import from __future__ to work in this
particular case?


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Tue Aug 18 16:51:26 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 22:51:26 +0200
Subject: How to create functors?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

18-08-2009 o 22:32:55 Robert Dailey  wrote:

> On Aug 18, 3:31?pm, Duncan Booth  wrote:
>> Robert Dailey  wrote:
>> > Hello,
>>
>> > I want to simply wrap a function up into an object so it can be called
>> > with no parameters. The parameters that it would otherwise have taken
>> > are already filled in. Like so:
>>
>> > ? ? ? print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
>> > ? ? ? print1()
>>
>> > However, the above code fails with:
>>
>> > ? File "C:\IT\work\distro_test\distribute_radix.py", line 286
>> > ? ? print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
>> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?^
>> > SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>>
>> > How can I get this working?
>>
>> def print1():
>> ? ? print "Foobar"
>>
>> It looks like in your version of Python "print" isn't a function. It  
>> always
>> helps if you say the exact version you are using in your question as the
>> exact answer you need may vary.
>
> I'm using Python 2.6. And using the legacy syntax in the lambda does
> not work either.

In Python 1.x/2.x 'print' is a keyword-based statement, not a function
-- then you cannot use it in lambda (which in Python is limited to
single expressions, and statements are not allowed in it).

You can try using sys.stdout.write() instead.

> I want to avoid using a def if possible.

But what for? Usualy def is more readable than lambda and it's not worth
to lose readibility just to save a few keystrokes.

Cheers,
*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From rcdailey at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 16:52:21 2009
From: rcdailey at gmail.com (Robert Dailey)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:52:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to create functors?
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: <315f52d5-1e0c-48ab-85fb-e5857aedd3ce@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 18, 3:51?pm, "Jan Kaliszewski"  wrote:
> 18-08-2009 o 22:32:55 Robert Dailey  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 18, 3:31?pm, Duncan Booth  wrote:
> >> Robert Dailey  wrote:
> >> > Hello,
>
> >> > I want to simply wrap a function up into an object so it can be called
> >> > with no parameters. The parameters that it would otherwise have taken
> >> > are already filled in. Like so:
>
> >> > ? ? ? print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
> >> > ? ? ? print1()
>
> >> > However, the above code fails with:
>
> >> > ? File "C:\IT\work\distro_test\distribute_radix.py", line 286
> >> > ? ? print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
> >> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?^
> >> > SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>
> >> > How can I get this working?
>
> >> def print1():
> >> ? ? print "Foobar"
>
> >> It looks like in your version of Python "print" isn't a function. It ?
> >> always
> >> helps if you say the exact version you are using in your question as the
> >> exact answer you need may vary.
>
> > I'm using Python 2.6. And using the legacy syntax in the lambda does
> > not work either.
>
> In Python 1.x/2.x 'print' is a keyword-based statement, not a function
> -- then you cannot use it in lambda (which in Python is limited to
> single expressions, and statements are not allowed in it).
>
> You can try using sys.stdout.write() instead.
>
> > I want to avoid using a def if possible.
>
> But what for? Usualy def is more readable than lambda and it's not worth
> to lose readibility just to save a few keystrokes.
>
> Cheers,
> *j
>
> --
> Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 

I posted a bit earlier than you did. See my previous post. Thanks for
the help.


From invalid at invalid  Tue Aug 18 16:55:19 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 15:55:19 -0500
Subject: How to create functors?
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-18, Robert Dailey  wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I want to simply wrap a function up into an object so it can be called
> with no parameters. The parameters that it would otherwise have taken
> are already filled in. Like so:
>
>
>       print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
>       print1()
>
> However, the above code fails with:
>
>   File "C:\IT\work\distro_test\distribute_radix.py", line 286
>     print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
>                          ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>
> How can I get this working?

Doesn't this do what you want?

    def print1():
        return print(" Foobar" )

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! I want my nose in
                                  at               lights!
                               visi.com            


From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 16:57:54 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:57:54 -0700
Subject: How to create functors?
In-Reply-To: <5834f36f-b172-4e76-ad90-7056e7097cdd@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	
	
	<5834f36f-b172-4e76-ad90-7056e7097cdd@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

> why am I able to use print as a
> function in general-purpose code in my Python 2.6 script

I believe it's because that is parsed as the print statement followed by a  
parenthesized expression.

On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:42:59 -0700, Robert Dailey   
wrote:

> On Aug 18, 3:40?pm, Chris Rebert  wrote:
>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 1:32 PM, Robert Dailey  
>> wrote:
>> > On Aug 18, 3:31?pm, Duncan Booth  wrote:
>> >> Robert Dailey  wrote:
>> >> > Hello,
>>
>> >> > I want to simply wrap a function up into an object so it can be  
>> called
>> >> > with no parameters. The parameters that it would otherwise have  
>> taken
>> >> > are already filled in. Like so:
>>
>> >> > ? ? ? print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
>> >> > ? ? ? print1()
>>
>> >> > However, the above code fails with:
>>
>> >> > ? File "C:\IT\work\distro_test\distribute_radix.py", line 286
>> >> > ? ? print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
>> >> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?^
>> >> > SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>>
>> >> > How can I get this working?
>>
>> >> def print1():
>> >> ? ? print "Foobar"
>>
>> >> It looks like in your version of Python "print" isn't a function. It  
>> always
>> >> helps if you say the exact version you are using in your question as  
>> the
>> >> exact answer you need may vary.
>>
>> > I'm using Python 2.6. And using the legacy syntax in the lambda does
>> > not work either. I want to avoid using a def if possible. Thanks.
>>
>> chris at morpheus ~ $ python
>> Python 2.6.2 (r262:71600, May 14 2009, 16:34:51)
>> [GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Inc. build 5484)] on darwin
>> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more  
>> information.>>> print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
>>
>> ? File "", line 1
>> ? ? print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?^
>> SyntaxError: invalid syntax>>> from __future__ import print_function
>> >>> print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
>> >>> print1()
>>
>> Foobar
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Chris
>> --http://blog.rebertia.com
>
> I see what you're saying now. However, why am I able to use print as a
> function in general-purpose code in my Python 2.6 script, like so:
>
> def SomeFunction():
>    print( "Hello World" )
>
> But, I am not able to do this:
>
> SomeFunction = lambda: print( "Hello World" )
>
> ??????
>
> Doesn't make sense.



-- 
Rami Chowdhury
"Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --  
Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)


From nad at acm.org  Tue Aug 18 17:00:04 2009
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:00:04 -0700
Subject: How to create functors?
References: 
	
	
	
	<5834f36f-b172-4e76-ad90-7056e7097cdd@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

In article 
<5834f36f-b172-4e76-ad90-7056e7097cdd at o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>,
 Robert Dailey  wrote:
> I see what you're saying now. However, why am I able to use print as a
> function in general-purpose code in my Python 2.6 script, like so:
> 
> def SomeFunction():
>    print( "Hello World" )

For the same reason you can do this:

>>> x = ( "Hello World" )
>>> type(x)


-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org



From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Tue Aug 18 17:01:26 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 23:01:26 +0200
Subject: How to create functors?
In-Reply-To: <5834f36f-b172-4e76-ad90-7056e7097cdd@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	
	
	<5834f36f-b172-4e76-ad90-7056e7097cdd@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Dnia 18-08-2009 o 22:42:59 Robert Dailey  napisa?(a):

> I see what you're saying now. However, why am I able to use print as a
> function in general-purpose code in my Python 2.6 script, like so:
>
> def SomeFunction():
>    print( "Hello World" )
>
> But, I am not able to do this:
>
> SomeFunction = lambda: print( "Hello World" )
>
> ??????

Because (unless you do 'from __future__ import print_function' in Py2.6)
it's statement, not a functions. In Python you can put any expression
in parentheses -- it's useful for wraping long lines but changes nothing
semantically (unless you add a comma -- then you create a tuple, even
without parentheses, but it'a another story...).

*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From gu.yakahughes at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 17:02:16 2009
From: gu.yakahughes at gmail.com (KillSwitch)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:02:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Editing a wiki
Message-ID: <62993053-871d-4dd6-96b0-10548ca4ed29@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

Hey guys,
Is it possible to edit a wiki page with python, including logging in
to edit the page, and inserting text into the edit box, etc. I was
thinking maybe python would be the language to do this in, because I
have to iterate through every line in a text file and gather info
about what to enter in the wiki that way, then put that text in a wiki
page. It's sort of a program-documenting program. If it's possible to
do this, I would make a special way of entering comments in the source
files, like maybe --[[##title code here]] and then --[[@@code example
here]] with the two symbols at the beginning of the comment dictating
what to enter where. Thanks for any input.


From rcdailey at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 17:03:51 2009
From: rcdailey at gmail.com (Robert Dailey)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:03:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to create functors?
References: 
	
	
	
	<5834f36f-b172-4e76-ad90-7056e7097cdd@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 18, 4:01?pm, "Jan Kaliszewski"  wrote:
> Dnia 18-08-2009 o 22:42:59 Robert Dailey  napisa?(a):
>
> > I see what you're saying now. However, why am I able to use print as a
> > function in general-purpose code in my Python 2.6 script, like so:
>
> > def SomeFunction():
> > ? ?print( "Hello World" )
>
> > But, I am not able to do this:
>
> > SomeFunction = lambda: print( "Hello World" )
>
> > ??????
>
> Because (unless you do 'from __future__ import print_function' in Py2.6)
> it's statement, not a functions. In Python you can put any expression
> in parentheses -- it's useful for wraping long lines but changes nothing
> semantically (unless you add a comma -- then you create a tuple, even
> without parentheses, but it'a another story...).
>
> *j
>
> --
> Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 

Ah, I see now. I completely fooled myself. This whole time I thought
Python 2.6 was updated to work with both forms of print by default as
a convenience, but still maintain the backwards compatibility.

I understand the situation now. Thanks to everyone for the help.


From lkcl at lkcl.net  Tue Aug 18 17:05:54 2009
From: lkcl at lkcl.net (Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 21:05:54 +0000
Subject: [ANN] Pyjamas 0.6 Web Widget Set and python-to-javascript Compiler 
	released
Message-ID: 

Pyjamas 0.6 is finally out: many thanks to everyone who has
contributed.  Special thanks to Kees Bos; Bernd, Bernd and Jurgen from
LovelySystems.com; the people who showed an interest in Pyjamas at
EuroPython 2009; and especially to everyone who has helped during the
pre-releases, with testing and bugreports over the past few weeks.
For a full list of contributors, see CREDITS.

Downloads:
---------

http://code.google.com/p/pyjamas/downloads
http://pypi.python.org/pypi/Pyjamas
http://sf.net/projects/pyjamas

Pyjamas
-------

Pyjamas is a port of Google Web Toolkit to Python, and thus enables
the development of Rich Media AJAX applications in Python, with no
need for special browser plugins.  Pyjamas contains a stand-alone
python-to-javascript compiler, and also a Widget Set API that looks
very similar to Desktop Widget Set APIs (such as PyQT4 or PyGTK2).

For more information, see:

    http://pyjs.org
    http://pyjs.org/FAQ.html
    http://pyjs.org/features.html

Known bugs: http://code.google.com/p/pyjamas/issues
            #227, #228, #229, #230 and #232

Pyjamas-Desktop
---------------

Pyjamas runs your application in a Web Browser (as javascript); Pyjamas-Desktop
runs exactly the same python application on the Desktop (as python)

    http://pyjd.org

Release 0.6 of Pyjamas also incorporates Pyjamas-Desktop directly into
the Pyjamas Distribution.  To use Pyjamas-Desktop there are three choices,
with more planned [MacOSX PyObjC; KDE's PyKHTML].

1) - XULRunner

install hulahop and python-xpcom.  hulahop is distributed with
both Debian and Ubuntu; python-xpcom is part of XULRunner and is
also distributed with both Debian and Ubuntu.  Other users should
investigate the installation instructions for python-xpcom and
hulahop for the operating system of their choice on the appropriate
web sites.

GNU/Linux, FreeBSD and other POSIX systems are strongly advised
to use XULRunner for Pyjamas-Desktop: it is the most stable of the
PyJD ports.

2) - PyWebKitGtk

you will need a patched version of pywebkitgtk:
http://code.google.com/p/pywebkitgtk/issues/detail?id=13

you will need a patched version of webkit:
http://github.com/lkcl/webkit/16401.master

Detailed build instructions are available here:
http://wiki.github.com/lkcl/webkit/helping-with-16401master

3) - MSHTML (experimental!)

For Windows users, all that's required, other than installing python
and Internet Explorer, is one further package: Win32 "comtypes".

Win32 "comtypes" can be downloaded here:
* http://sourceforge.net/projects/comtypes/

The MSHTML version primarily works.  Reports using IE8's MSHTML
engine would be appreciated.

Known bugs: the use of Tab to cycle through Keyboard Focus elements
            is ineffective; onkeyup and onkeydown events are unresponsive,
            but oddly onkeypress event handling works.


From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 17:11:23 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:11:23 -0700
Subject: How to create functors?
In-Reply-To: <0866bb91-ce18-46f5-a62b-8c6cb14e13d7@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	
	
	<0866bb91-ce18-46f5-a62b-8c6cb14e13d7@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

> The example I gave earlier is a bit contrived, the real example
> fundamentally requires a lambda since I am actually passing in local
> variables into the functions the lambda is wrapping. Example:
>
> def MyFunction():
>   localVariable = 20
>   CreateTask( lambda: SomeOtherFunction( localVariable ) ) # CreateTask
> () executes the functor internally
>
> This is more or less like the real scenario I'm working with.

You could define a local function ('closure') inside the function:

def MyFunction():
	localVariable = 20
	def UseLocalVariable():
		SomeOtherFunction(localVariable)
	CreateTask(UseLocalVariable)

I would suggest this is much better for readability.

On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:51:19 -0700, Robert Dailey   
wrote:

> On Aug 18, 3:45?pm, "Rami Chowdhury"  wrote:
>> Lambda expressions are, I believe, syntactically limited to a single ?
>> expression -- no statements, like 'print' is in Python 2.x.
>>
>> If you are strongly against just defining a function, you might have to  
>> ?
>> use a trick to get around it -- this page ?
>> (http://p-nand-q.com/python/stupid_lambda_tricks.html) has some ?
>> suggestions.
>>
>> On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:32:55 -0700, Robert Dailey  ?
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Aug 18, 3:31?pm, Duncan Booth  wrote:
>> >> Robert Dailey  wrote:
>> >> > Hello,
>>
>> >> > I want to simply wrap a function up into an object so it can be  
>> called
>> >> > with no parameters. The parameters that it would otherwise have  
>> taken
>> >> > are already filled in. Like so:
>>
>> >> > ? ? ? print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
>> >> > ? ? ? print1()
>>
>> >> > However, the above code fails with:
>>
>> >> > ? File "C:\IT\work\distro_test\distribute_radix.py", line 286
>> >> > ? ? print1 = lambda: print( "Foobar" )
>> >> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?^
>> >> > SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>>
>> >> > How can I get this working?
>>
>> >> def print1():
>> >> ? ? print "Foobar"
>>
>> >> It looks like in your version of Python "print" isn't a function. It  
>> ?
>> >> always
>> >> helps if you say the exact version you are using in your question as  
>> the
>> >> exact answer you need may vary.
>>
>> > I'm using Python 2.6. And using the legacy syntax in the lambda does
>> > not work either. I want to avoid using a def if possible. Thanks.
>>
>> --
>> Rami Chowdhury
>> "Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity"  
>> -- ?
>> Hanlon's Razor
>> 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)
>
> The example I gave earlier is a bit contrived, the real example
> fundamentally requires a lambda since I am actually passing in local
> variables into the functions the lambda is wrapping. Example:
>
> def MyFunction():
>   localVariable = 20
>   CreateTask( lambda: SomeOtherFunction( localVariable ) ) # CreateTask
> () executes the functor internally
>
> This is more or less like the real scenario I'm working with. There
> are other (more personal) reasons why I prefer to avoid 'def' in this
> case. I want to keep the functor as central to the code that needs it
> as possible to improve code readability.
>
> Thanks for the help everyone. I guess in Python 3.0 the print()
> function will not require the import from __future__ to work in this
> particular case?



-- 
Rami Chowdhury
"Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --  
Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)


From david.birdsong at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 17:11:25 2009
From: david.birdsong at gmail.com (birdsong)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:11:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: basic thread question
References: 
Message-ID: <07fb2a97-d720-4dcd-9155-9237c1802091@i8g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 18, 1:10?pm, Derek Martin  wrote:
> I have some simple threaded code... ?If I run this
> with an arg of 1 (start one thread), it pegs one cpu, as I would
> expect. ?If I run it with an arg of 2 (start 2 threads), it uses both
> CPUs, but utilization of both is less than 50%. ?Can anyone explain
> why? ?
>
> I do not pretend it's impeccable code, and I'm not looking for a
> critiqe of the code per se, excepting the case where what I've written
> is actually *wrong*. I hacked this together in a couple of minutes,
> with the intent of pegging my CPUs. ?Performance with two threads is
> actually *worse* than with one, which is highly unintuitive. ?I can
> accomplish my goal very easily with bash, but I still want to
> understand what's going on here...
>
> The OS is Linux 2.6.24, on a Ubuntu base. ?Here's the code:
>
> Thanks
>
> -=-=-=-=-
>
> #!/usr/bin/python
>
> import thread, sys, time
>
> def busy(thread):
> ? ? x=0
> ? ? while True:
> ? ? ? ? x+=1
>
> if __name__ == '__main__':
> ? ? try:
> ? ? ? ? cpus = int(sys.argv[1])
> ? ? except ValueError:
> ? ? ? ? cpus = 1
> ? ? print "cpus = %d, argv[1] = %s\n" % (cpus, sys.argv[1])
> ? ? i=0
> ? ? thread_list = []
> ? ? while i < cpus:
> ? ? ? ? x = thread.start_new_thread(busy, (i,))
> ? ? ? ? thread_list.append(x)
> ? ? ? ? i+=1
> ? ? while True:
> ? ? ? ? pass
>
> --
> Derek D. Martinhttp://www.pizzashack.org/
> GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D
>
> ?application_pgp-signature_part
> < 1KViewDownload

watch this and all your findings will be explained: http://blip.tv/file/2232410

this talk marked a pivotal moment in my understanding of python
threads and signal handling in threaded programs.


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Tue Aug 18 17:11:34 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 23:11:34 +0200
Subject: Inheriting dictionary
In-Reply-To: 
References: <95736695-29b5-4185-8764-8eca140b76d2@e18g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

18-08-2009 o 22:27:41 Nat Williams  wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 2:44 PM, Pavel Panchekha  
> wrote:
>
>> I want a dictionary that will transparently "inherit" from a parent
>> dictionary. So, for example:
>>
>> """
>> a = InheritDict({1: "one", 2: "two", 4: "four"})
>> b = InheritDict({3: "three", 4: "foobar"}, inherit_from=a)
>>
>> a[1] # "one"
>> a[4] # "four"
>> b[1] # "one"
>> b[3] # "three"
>> b[4] # "foobar"
>> """
>>
>> I've written something like this in Python already, but I'm wondering
>> if something like this already exists, preferably written in C, for
>> speed.
>
>
> Why complicate this with a custom object?  Just use regular dicts and  
> make b a copy of a.
>
> a = {1: 'one', 2: 'two', 4: 'four'}
> b = dict(a)
> b[3] = 'three'
> b[4] = 'foobar'

Because, as I understand Pavel's intent, it has to work dynamically
(e.g. changes in 'a' reflect in behaviour of 'b'), and obviously not
only for such trivial examples like above.

*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From sajmikins at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 17:13:02 2009
From: sajmikins at gmail.com (Simon Forman)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:13:02 -0400
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
In-Reply-To: <4A8ADF6D.2030405@sequans.com>
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<90cd2c33-5f2d-4a29-b267-67f233ae2946@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
	<4A8ADF6D.2030405@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <50f98a4c0908181413s69648332i6dea4f927e605f6@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Jean-Michel
Pichavant wrote:
> Steve Holden wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Robert Dailey:
>>>>
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>>
>>> It's a figure of speech. And besides, why would I want programming
>>> advice from a woman? lol. Thanks for the help.
>>>
>>
>> Sorry, Robert, simply not acceptable. Whether designed to be funny or
>> not it's the kind of inane remark I would be really happy never to see
>> again.
>>
>> The problem is that we can't just "let these things go by" all the
>> time (even though we aren't discussing a major crime here). If we do
>> that it encourages (at best) an atmosphere of complacency and a
>> feeling that it's OK to demean people in Python forums. I'd really
>> like to see those *not* get a hold.
>>
>> regards
>> ?Steve
>>
>
> Did you read the original post (this is an old one) ? Because quoting a joke
> out of its context is totally unfair.

Unfair to whom?

In any event, the context here seems to be a mixture of Guy Fawkes
trivia and general disapproval of sexist remarks on c.l.p, so I don't
see this comment as "out of context".

(For the record, I use "guys" to refer to groups of people regardless
of their gender.  I also use "dude" to refer to people regardless of
their gender.  The only person who has taken offense to this is my
mom.  "I am not a dude."  But she means she's not a cowboy, not not a
male.) (Uh, she is, in fact, female.)

> Anyway the hysteria that is surrounding this thread is just amazing. I'm
> waiting for more.

I don't feel hysterical, only appalled.

The OP used a common slang term, someone mentioned that the term
implies a group of males when in fact the group being addressed is
mixed gender, and the OP replied that it was "just a figure of
speech".

So far, so good. But then the OP made a sexist "joke".  He was called
on it and issued a rather gracious apology, but then he dropped
another sexist turd right in the middle of his otherwise model
apology.

I won't speak for anyone else, but I was appalled.


Sexism, racism, homophobia, religious intolerance, etc., all stem from
a fundamental forgetfulness of our Unity in God (as I would put it)
and this is perhaps the single greatest cause of human misery.

We are one family.


From deets at nospam.web.de  Tue Aug 18 17:18:36 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 23:18:36 +0200
Subject: Editing a wiki
In-Reply-To: <62993053-871d-4dd6-96b0-10548ca4ed29@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <62993053-871d-4dd6-96b0-10548ca4ed29@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7f0k5cF2i58otU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

KillSwitch schrieb:
> Hey guys,
> Is it possible to edit a wiki page with python, including logging in
> to edit the page, and inserting text into the edit box, etc. I was
> thinking maybe python would be the language to do this in, because I
> have to iterate through every line in a text file and gather info
> about what to enter in the wiki that way, then put that text in a wiki
> page. It's sort of a program-documenting program. If it's possible to
> do this, I would make a special way of entering comments in the source
> files, like maybe --[[##title code here]] and then --[[@@code example
> here]] with the two symbols at the beginning of the comment dictating
> what to enter where. Thanks for any input.

Take a look at mechanize, which is a python web-client impostor thingy - 
it should be easy to use for this purpose.


Diez


From pavpanchekha at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 17:19:05 2009
From: pavpanchekha at gmail.com (Pavel Panchekha)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:19:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Inheriting dictionary
References: <95736695-29b5-4185-8764-8eca140b76d2@e18g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	 
	
Message-ID: <30490e9b-7f8d-4adc-afc6-0c1d5e04cbac@f33g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 18, 5:11?pm, "Jan Kaliszewski"  wrote:
> 18-08-2009 o 22:27:41 Nat Williams  wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 2:44 PM, Pavel Panchekha ?
> > wrote:
>
> >> I want a dictionary that will transparently "inherit" from a parent
> >> dictionary. So, for example:
>
> >> """
> >> a = InheritDict({1: "one", 2: "two", 4: "four"})
> >> b = InheritDict({3: "three", 4: "foobar"}, inherit_from=a)
>
> >> a[1] # "one"
> >> a[4] # "four"
> >> b[1] # "one"
> >> b[3] # "three"
> >> b[4] # "foobar"
> >> """
>
> >> I've written something like this in Python already, but I'm wondering
> >> if something like this already exists, preferably written in C, for
> >> speed.
>
> > Why complicate this with a custom object? ?Just use regular dicts and ?
> > make b a copy of a.
>
> > a = {1: 'one', 2: 'two', 4: 'four'}
> > b = dict(a)
> > b[3] = 'three'
> > b[4] = 'foobar'
>
> Because, as I understand Pavel's intent, it has to work dynamically
> (e.g. changes in 'a' reflect in behaviour of 'b'), and obviously not
> only for such trivial examples like above.
>
> *j
>
> --
> Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 

That is indeed the point.


From leonhard.vogt at gmx.ch  Tue Aug 18 17:19:26 2009
From: leonhard.vogt at gmx.ch (Leonhard Vogt)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 23:19:26 +0200
Subject: How to create functors?
In-Reply-To: <0866bb91-ce18-46f5-a62b-8c6cb14e13d7@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	
	
	<0866bb91-ce18-46f5-a62b-8c6cb14e13d7@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <36b62$4a8b1adf$544b15b8$17140@news.hispeed.ch>


> The example I gave earlier is a bit contrived, the real example
> fundamentally requires a lambda since I am actually passing in local
> variables into the functions the lambda is wrapping. Example:
> 
> def MyFunction():
>   localVariable = 20
>   CreateTask( lambda: SomeOtherFunction( localVariable ) ) # CreateTask
> () executes the functor internally
> 
> This is more or less like the real scenario I'm working with. There
> are other (more personal) reasons why I prefer to avoid 'def' in this
> case. I want to keep the functor as central to the code that needs it
> as possible to improve code readability.
> 

what about

def MyFunction():
     localVariable = 20
     def wrapper():
         return SomeOtherFunction( localVariable )
     CreateTask( wrapper )

the wrapper is only visible inside MyFunction.

Leonhard


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Aug 18 17:19:39 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 07:19:39 +1000
Subject: Code formatting question: conditional expression
References: 
Message-ID: <87skfohlas.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

John Posner  writes:

> Is there any consensus on how to format a conditional expression that
> is too long for one line? How about this:
>
>  excessblk = (Block(total - P.BASE, srccol, carry_button_suppress=True)
>               if total > P.BASE else
>               None)
>
> The above format separates the values from the if-then-else machinery.
> Too many lines?

Too much indentation, and worse, indentation that changes based on a
distractingly irrelevant quantity: the length of the first line. I
prefer::

    excessblk = (
        Block(total - P.BASE, srccol, carry_button_suppress=True)
        if total > P.BASE else None)

> Would it be better to line up "if" and "else" vertically? ...

If the expression assigned in the ?else? branch were also quite long,
I'd say yes::

    excessblk = (
        Block(total - P.BASE, srccol, carry_button_suppress=True)
        if total > P.BASE
        else Block(total, srccol, carry_button_suppress=False))

-- 
 \          ?Friendship is born at that moment when one person says to |
  `\    another, ?What! You too? I thought I was the only one!?? ?C.S. |
_o__)                                                            Lewis |
Ben Finney


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Aug 18 17:24:35 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 07:24:35 +1000
Subject: Code formatting question: conditional expression
References: 
	<7evr1pF2i4mouU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <87ocqchl2k.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

"Diez B. Roggisch"  writes:

> excessblk = None
> if total > P.BASE:
>     excessblk = ...
>
> You don't lose any vertical space,

I don't see vertical space as such a scarce resource; we don't have an
imminent newline shortage, to my knowledge. I value it far lower than,
say, local readability.

> and it's much more readable IMHO.

On the basis of local readability, then, I agree that a multi-line
conditional expression is far less quickly comprehensible than a normal
multi-line ?if? statement. Assigning the default value of ?None? first
(if that's the default) is also good style IMO.

-- 
 \        ?Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?? ?Wuh, I think |
  `\   so, Brain, but wouldn't anything lose its flavor on the bedpost |
_o__)                               overnight?? ?_Pinky and The Brain_ |
Ben Finney


From deets at nospam.web.de  Tue Aug 18 17:24:38 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 23:24:38 +0200
Subject: How to create functors?
In-Reply-To: <0866bb91-ce18-46f5-a62b-8c6cb14e13d7@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	
	
	<0866bb91-ce18-46f5-a62b-8c6cb14e13d7@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7f0kgmF2iioslU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

> The example I gave earlier is a bit contrived, the real example
> fundamentally requires a lambda since I am actually passing in local
> variables into the functions the lambda is wrapping. Example:


funcs = []

for i in xrange(10):

    def f(i=i):
        print i

    funcs.append(f)

for f in funcs:
    f()


> This is more or less like the real scenario I'm working with. There
> are other (more personal) reasons why I prefer to avoid 'def' in this
> case. I want to keep the functor as central to the code that needs it
> as possible to improve code readability.

Didn't you say the other day you came from C++? Given the galactic 
amount of hoops to jump through that language has to offer, typing

   def f

instead of the even longe

   lambda

strikes me as rather peculiar.

Diez


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Tue Aug 18 17:30:19 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 23:30:19 +0200
Subject: How to create functors?
In-Reply-To: <0866bb91-ce18-46f5-a62b-8c6cb14e13d7@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	
	
	<0866bb91-ce18-46f5-a62b-8c6cb14e13d7@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Dnia 18-08-2009 o 22:51:19 Robert Dailey  napisa?(a):

> The example I gave earlier is a bit contrived, the real example
> fundamentally requires a lambda since I am actually passing in local
> variables into the functions the lambda is wrapping. Example:
>
> def MyFunction():
>   localVariable = 20
>   CreateTask( lambda: SomeOtherFunction( localVariable ) ) # CreateTask
> () executes the functor internally

Lambda in Python is a sintactic sugar for some simple situations. But you
*always* can replace it with def, e.g.:

  def MyFunction():

      localVariable = 20
      def TaskFunction():
          SomeOtherFunction(localVariable)

      CreateTask(TaskFunction)

If we say about You can also use functools.partial:

  import functools

  def MyFunction():

      localVariable = 20
      CreateTask(functools.partial(SomeOtherFunction, localVariable)

...which (especially) makes sense if passed function is supposed to be
callend many times.

> This is more or less like the real scenario I'm working with. There
> are other (more personal) reasons why I prefer to avoid 'def' in this
> case. I want to keep the functor as central to the code that needs it
> as possible to improve code readability.

IMHO def is mostly more readable (see my previous mail...).

> Thanks for the help everyone. I guess in Python 3.0 the print()
> function will not require the import from __future__ to work in this
> particular case?

Print as a function is a standard feature of Py 3.x so it doesn't
require it (see: http://docs.python.org/3.1/whatsnew/3.0.html ).

Regards,
*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Tue Aug 18 17:30:22 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:30:22 -0700
Subject: Editing a wiki
In-Reply-To: <62993053-871d-4dd6-96b0-10548ca4ed29@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <62993053-871d-4dd6-96b0-10548ca4ed29@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908181430k7b36ec3fv4248865dbd0ae954@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 2:02 PM, KillSwitch wrote:
> Hey guys,
> Is it possible to edit a wiki page with python, including logging in
> to edit the page, and inserting text into the edit box, etc.

Depends on the wiki. For Mediawiki, yes: http://pywikipediabot.sourceforge.net/

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From invalid at invalid  Tue Aug 18 17:31:58 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:31:58 -0500
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<90cd2c33-5f2d-4a29-b267-67f233ae2946@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
	<4A8ADF6D.2030405@sequans.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-18, Simon Forman  wrote:

> Sexism, racism, homophobia, religious intolerance, etc., all
> stem from a fundamental forgetfulness of our Unity in God (as
> I would put it) and this is perhaps the single greatest cause
> of human misery.

You mean the single greatest cause of human misery isn't
Microsoft Windows?

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! What I want to find
                                  at               out is -- do parrots know
                               visi.com            much about Astro-Turf?


From paul at boddie.org.uk  Tue Aug 18 17:32:11 2009
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:32:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Editing a wiki
References: <62993053-871d-4dd6-96b0-10548ca4ed29@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On 18 Aug, 23:02, KillSwitch  wrote:
> Hey guys,
> Is it possible to edit a wiki page with python, including logging in
> to edit the page, and inserting text into the edit box, etc. I was
> thinking maybe python would be the language to do this in, because I
> have to iterate through every line in a text file and gather info
> about what to enter in the wiki that way, then put that text in a wiki
> page.

What you seem to want is a way of interacting with Web forms, and
there are various Python client libraries which do this:

http://wiki.python.org/moin/WebClientProgramming

However, see below.

>       It's sort of a program-documenting program. If it's possible to
> do this, I would make a special way of entering comments in the source
> files, like maybe --[[##title code here]] and then --[[@@code example
> here]] with the two symbols at the beginning of the comment dictating
> what to enter where. Thanks for any input.

Generally, you have to be careful interacting with Web sites in an
automated fashion: Wiki sites in particular often have measures in
place to deter "robots" and behaviour which looks like spamming. If
the Wiki is under your control, you'd be better off uploading content
via the data store (such as the filesystem for MoinMoin and some other
Wiki solutions) or via specific mechanisms provided for administration
of the Wiki.

Paul


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Aug 18 17:39:13 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 07:39:13 +1000
Subject: Code formatting question: conditional expression
References: 
	
Message-ID: <87k510hke6.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

John Posner  writes:

> > excessblk = None
> > if total > P.BASE:
> >     excessblk = ...
> >
[?]

> But doesn't it violate the DRY principle? The token "excessblk"
> appears twice instead of once.

No, the DRY principle 
doesn't speak against assigning two *different* values in two
*different* circumstances. That's not duplication, and doesn't risk
contradiction. DRY speaks against repeating the same *meaning* in two
different places.

Because this concept is expressed in natural language and not a
programming language, and because we don't speak in a language under the
same principles we espouse for programming, there are multiple terms
used for this concept :-)

Another term which makes the point slightly more sharply is SPOT: there
should be a Single Point Of Truth for each fact in the overall system.

-- 
 \          ?What I have to do is see, at any rate, that I do not lend |
  `\      myself to the wrong which I condemn.? ?Henry Thoreau, _Civil |
_o__)                                                    Disobedience_ |
Ben Finney


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Tue Aug 18 17:41:02 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 23:41:02 +0200
Subject: basic thread question
In-Reply-To: <20090818201015.GP20434@dragontoe.org>
References: <20090818201015.GP20434@dragontoe.org>
Message-ID: 

18-08-2009 o 22:10:15 Derek Martin  wrote:

> I have some simple threaded code...  If I run this
> with an arg of 1 (start one thread), it pegs one cpu, as I would
> expect.  If I run it with an arg of 2 (start 2 threads), it uses both
> CPUs, but utilization of both is less than 50%.  Can anyone explain
> why?
>
> I do not pretend it's impeccable code, and I'm not looking for a
> critiqe of the code per se, excepting the case where what I've written
> is actually *wrong*. I hacked this together in a couple of minutes,
> with the intent of pegging my CPUs.  Performance with two threads is
> actually *worse* than with one, which is highly unintuitive.  I can
> accomplish my goal very easily with bash, but I still want to
> understand what's going on here...
>
> The OS is Linux 2.6.24, on a Ubuntu base.  Here's the code:

Python threads can't benefit from multiple processors (because of GIL,
see: http://docs.python.org/glossary.html#term-global-interpreter-lock).

'multiprocessing' module is what you need:

http://docs.python.org/library/multiprocessing.html

Cheers,
*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Aug 18 17:42:40 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 07:42:40 +1000
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<90cd2c33-5f2d-4a29-b267-67f233ae2946@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <87fxbohk8f.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Jean-Michel Pichavant  writes:

> Anyway the hysteria that is surrounding this thread is just amazing.

If the calm reproach that has been the maximum response so far seems
like ?hysteria? to you, I can only conclude you have only been using the
internet for a few hours.

-- 
 \          ?The fact that I have no remedy for all the sorrows of the |
  `\     world is no reason for my accepting yours. It simply supports |
_o__)  the strong probability that yours is a fake.? ?Henry L. Mencken |
Ben Finney


From rcdailey at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 17:50:22 2009
From: rcdailey at gmail.com (Robert Dailey)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:50:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to create functors?
References: 
	
	
	
	<0866bb91-ce18-46f5-a62b-8c6cb14e13d7@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 18, 4:30?pm, "Jan Kaliszewski"  wrote:
> Lambda in Python is a sintactic sugar for some simple situations. But you
> *always* can replace it with def, e.g.:
>
> ? def MyFunction():
>
> ? ? ? localVariable = 20
> ? ? ? def TaskFunction():
> ? ? ? ? ? SomeOtherFunction(localVariable)
>
> ? ? ? CreateTask(TaskFunction)
>
> If we say about You can also use functools.partial:
>
> ? import functools
>
> ? def MyFunction():
>
> ? ? ? localVariable = 20
> ? ? ? CreateTask(functools.partial(SomeOtherFunction, localVariable)
>
> ...which (especially) makes sense if passed function is supposed to be
> callend many times.

Good point, I'm too used to C++ (Can't define functions in local
scope). I never thought of that. In C++ I use boost::bind() fairly
extensively and I carry over those habits to python.

>
> IMHO def is mostly more readable (see my previous mail...).
>
> Print as a function is a standard feature of Py 3.x so it doesn't
> require it (see:http://docs.python.org/3.1/whatsnew/3.0.html).

Thanks for the info.


From erik1vandamme at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 18:06:50 2009
From: erik1vandamme at gmail.com (Erik Vandamme)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 15:06:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Setuptools - help!
References: 
	
Message-ID: <77a95cac-a059-4501-917a-e87157511912@p36g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 7, 9:17?am, Robert Kern  wrote:
> On 2009-08-06 18:04, Peter Chant wrote:
>
>
>
> > Chaps,
>
> > any ideas, I'm floundering - I don't quite get it. ?I have the following
> > files, setup.py and main.py in a directory pphoto:
>
> > # more setup.py
> > from setuptools import setup, find_packages
> > setup(
> > ? ? ?name = "Pphoto",
> > ? ? ?version = "0.1",
> > ? ? ?packages = find_packages(),
>
> > ? ? ?# other arguments here...
> > ? ? ?entry_points = {'console_scripts': ['foo = pphoto.main:HelloWorld',]}
>
> > )
>
> > bash-3.1# more main.py
>
> > def HelloWorld():
> > ? ? ?print "Hello World!"
>
> > print "Odd world"
>
> >> From various websites that should produce a script foo that runs HelloWorld.
> > It does produce a script that simply crashes.
>
> > bash-3.1# foo
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> > ? ?File "/usr/bin/foo", line 8, in
> > ? ? ?load_entry_point('Pphoto==0.1', 'console_scripts', 'foo')()
> > ? ?File "build/bdist.linux-i686/egg/pkg_resources.py", line 277, in
> > load_entry_point
> > ? ?File "build/bdist.linux-i686/egg/pkg_resources.py", line 2098, in
> > load_entry_point
> > ? ?File "build/bdist.linux-i686/egg/pkg_resources.py", line 1831, in load
> > ImportError: No module named pphoto.main
> > bash-3.1#
>
> > Note, doing this as root as it seems not to do anything usefull at all if I
> > run python setup develop as a user.
>
> > Any ideas? ?I must be missing something fundamental?
>
> You need to put main.py into the pphoto package.
>
> $ mkdir pphoto/
> $ mv main.py pphoto/
> $ touch pphoto/__init__.py
>
> --
> Robert Kern
>
> "I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
> ? that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
> ? an underlying truth."
> ? ?-- Umberto Eco
erik at erik-d2c:~/calibre-0.6.7$ mv main.py pphoto/
mv: cannot stat `main.py': No such file or directory
-------------------------------------
there is no main.py in the main calibre folder and there is 5 of them
in the subfolders?????


From sajmikins at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 18:08:11 2009
From: sajmikins at gmail.com (Simon Forman)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 15:08:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Inheriting dictionary
References: <95736695-29b5-4185-8764-8eca140b76d2@e18g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2fe6d216-1e8f-4de1-8c36-d4ee11bb7233@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 18, 3:44?pm, Pavel Panchekha  wrote:
> I want a dictionary that will transparently "inherit" from a parent
> dictionary. So, for example:
>
> """
> a = InheritDict({1: "one", 2: "two", 4: "four"})
> b = InheritDict({3: "three", 4: "foobar"}, inherit_from=a)
>
> a[1] # "one"
> a[4] # "four"
> b[1] # "one"
> b[3] # "three"
> b[4] # "foobar"
> """
>
> I've written something like this in Python already, but I'm wondering
> if something like this already exists, preferably written in C, for
> speed.


I would consider something like the following:


a = {1: "one", 2: "two", 4: "four"}
b = {3: "three", 4: "foobar"}


from functools import partial


def getter(first, second, key):
    try:
        return first(key)
    except KeyError:
        return second(key)


f = partial(getter, b.__getitem__, a.__getitem__)


# Or, if you know you'll be getting a lot of KeyErrors, you
# can use get() instead of __getitem__().

def getter1(first, second, key, sentinel=None):
    item = first(key, sentinel)
    if item is sentinel:
        item = second(key)
    return item

g = partial(getter1, b.get, a.__getitem__)


HTH,
~Simon


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 18:14:42 2009
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 15:14:42 -0700
Subject: Setuptools - help!
In-Reply-To: <77a95cac-a059-4501-917a-e87157511912@p36g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
References: 	
	<77a95cac-a059-4501-917a-e87157511912@p36g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-18 15:06 PM, Erik Vandamme wrote:
> On Aug 7, 9:17 am, Robert Kern  wrote:
>> On 2009-08-06 18:04, Peter Chant wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Chaps,
>>
>>> any ideas, I'm floundering - I don't quite get it.  I have the following
>>> files, setup.py and main.py in a directory pphoto:
>>
>>> # more setup.py
>>> from setuptools import setup, find_packages
>>> setup(
>>>       name = "Pphoto",
>>>       version = "0.1",
>>>       packages = find_packages(),
>>
>>>       # other arguments here...
>>>       entry_points = {'console_scripts': ['foo = pphoto.main:HelloWorld',]}
>>
>>> )
>>
>>> bash-3.1# more main.py
>>
>>> def HelloWorld():
>>>       print "Hello World!"
>>
>>> print "Odd world"
>>
>>>>  From various websites that should produce a script foo that runs HelloWorld.
>>> It does produce a script that simply crashes.
>>
>>> bash-3.1# foo
>>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>>     File "/usr/bin/foo", line 8, in
>>>       load_entry_point('Pphoto==0.1', 'console_scripts', 'foo')()
>>>     File "build/bdist.linux-i686/egg/pkg_resources.py", line 277, in
>>> load_entry_point
>>>     File "build/bdist.linux-i686/egg/pkg_resources.py", line 2098, in
>>> load_entry_point
>>>     File "build/bdist.linux-i686/egg/pkg_resources.py", line 1831, in load
>>> ImportError: No module named pphoto.main
>>> bash-3.1#
>>
>>> Note, doing this as root as it seems not to do anything usefull at all if I
>>> run python setup develop as a user.
>>
>>> Any ideas?  I must be missing something fundamental?
>>
>> You need to put main.py into the pphoto package.
>>
>> $ mkdir pphoto/
>> $ mv main.py pphoto/
>> $ touch pphoto/__init__.py
>>
>> --
>> Robert Kern
>>
>> "I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
>>    that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
>>    an underlying truth."
>>     -- Umberto Eco
> erik at erik-d2c:~/calibre-0.6.7$ mv main.py pphoto/
> mv: cannot stat `main.py': No such file or directory
> -------------------------------------
> there is no main.py in the main calibre folder and there is 5 of them
> in the subfolders?????

I was helping Peter Chant with his problem. You have a different problem. Why 
are you trying to follow my advice verbatim for a completely different package? 
What problem are you seeing?

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From code at pizzashack.org  Tue Aug 18 18:18:54 2009
From: code at pizzashack.org (Derek Martin)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:18:54 -0500
Subject: basic thread question
In-Reply-To: <20090818201015.GP20434@dragontoe.org>
References: <20090818201015.GP20434@dragontoe.org>
Message-ID: <20090818221854.GQ20434@dragontoe.org>

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 03:10:15PM -0500, Derek Martin wrote:
> I have some simple threaded code...  If I run this
> with an arg of 1 (start one thread), it pegs one cpu, as I would
> expect.  If I run it with an arg of 2 (start 2 threads), it uses both
> CPUs, but utilization of both is less than 50%.  Can anyone explain
> why?  
 
Ah, searching while waiting for an answer (the e-mail gateway is a bit
slow, it seems...) I discovered that the GIL is the culprate.
Evidently this question comes up a lot.  It would probably save a lot
of time on the part of those who answer questions here, as well as
those implementing solutions in Python, if whoever is maintaining the
docs these days would put a blurb about this in the docs in big bold
letters...  Concurrency being perhaps the primary reason to use
threading, essentially it means that Python is not useful for the
sorts of problems that one would be inclined to solve they way my code
works (or rather, was meant to).  It would be very helpful to know
that *before* one tried to implement a solution that way... especially
for solutions significantly less trivial than mine. ;-)

Thanks

-- 
Derek D. Martin
http://www.pizzashack.org/
GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D

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From digitalxero at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 18:21:26 2009
From: digitalxero at gmail.com (Dj Gilcrease)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:21:26 -0600
Subject: [Python-Dev] Mercurial migration: help needed
In-Reply-To: <4A8A6256.1030009@v.loewis.de>
References: <4A8A6256.1030009@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 2:12 AM, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote:
> The second item is line conversion hooks. Dj Gilcrease has posted a
> solution which he considers a hack himself. Mark Hammond has also
> volunteered, but it seems some volunteer needs to be "in charge",
> keeping track of a proposed solution until everybody agrees that it
> is a good solution. It may be that two solutions are necessary: a
> short-term one, that operates as a hook and has limitations, and
> a long-term one, that improves the hook system of Mercurial to
> implement the proper functionality (which then might get shipped
> with Mercurial in a cross-platform manner).


My solution is a hack because the hooks in Mercurial need to be
modified to support it properly, I would be happy to help work on this
as it is a situation I run into all the time in my own projects. I can
never seem to get all the developers to enable the hooks, and one of
them always commits with improper line endings =P


From markscottwright at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 18:24:20 2009
From: markscottwright at gmail.com (markscottwright)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 15:24:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How do I convert an iterator over bytes into a str?
Message-ID: <3e3d2ebd-df8a-42a8-9420-0439a965a0d5@v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

This does what I expected:
    In [6]: list(iter([1,2,3,4,5]))
    Out[6]: [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

But this appears to be doing a __repr__ rather than making me a nice
string:
   In [7]: str(iter("four score and seven years ago"))
   Out[7]: ''

What's the correct way to turn an iterator over bytes into a string?
This works, but, ewww:
    In [8]: "".join(iter("four score and seven years ago"))
    Out[8]: 'four score and seven years ago'


From emile at fenx.com  Tue Aug 18 18:39:27 2009
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 15:39:27 -0700
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>	<90cd2c33-5f2d-4a29-b267-67f233ae2946@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>	<4A8ADF6D.2030405@sequans.com>	
	
Message-ID: 

On 8/18/2009 2:31 PM Unknown said...

> You mean the single greatest cause of human misery isn't
> Microsoft Windows?

Either that or users...

Sick-of-both-today-ly y'rs,

Emile




From davidshais at googlemail.com  Tue Aug 18 18:47:09 2009
From: davidshais at googlemail.com (David)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 15:47:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Scope and classes
Message-ID: 

Hi all,

I'm trying to understand how scopes work within a class definition.
I'll quickly illustrate with an example. Say I had the following class
definition:

class Abc:
    message = 'Hello World'

    def print_message(self):
        print message

>>> instance = Abc()
>>> instance.print_message()
NameError: global name 'message' not defined

My question is, why? message is not defined in print_message, but it
is defined in the enclosing scope (the class)?

Thanks!


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Aug 18 18:54:13 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 23:54:13 +0100
Subject: How do I convert an iterator over bytes into a str?
In-Reply-To: <3e3d2ebd-df8a-42a8-9420-0439a965a0d5@v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
References: <3e3d2ebd-df8a-42a8-9420-0439a965a0d5@v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

markscottwright wrote:
> This does what I expected:
>     In [6]: list(iter([1,2,3,4,5]))
>     Out[6]: [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
> 
> But this appears to be doing a __repr__ rather than making me a nice
> string:
>    In [7]: str(iter("four score and seven years ago"))
>    Out[7]: ''
> 
> What's the correct way to turn an iterator over bytes into a string?
> This works, but, ewww:
>     In [8]: "".join(iter("four score and seven years ago"))
>     Out[8]: 'four score and seven years ago'
You've started with a string.
 >>> type("four score and seven years ago")


-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From olivier.anospamrnospamnnospamanospamenospamz at affaires.net  Tue Aug 18 19:03:30 2009
From: olivier.anospamrnospamnnospamanospamenospamz at affaires.net (Ludo)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 01:03:30 +0200
Subject: Read C++ enum in python
Message-ID: <4a8b3342$0$25403$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

Hello,

I work in a very large project where we have C++ packages and pieces of 
python code.

I've been googleing for days but what I find seems really too 
complicated for what I want to do.

My business is, in python, to read enum definitions provided by the 
header file of an c++ package.
Of course I could open the .h file, read the enum and transcode it by 
hand into a .py file but the package is regularly updated and thus is 
the enum.

My question is then simple : do we have :
	- either a simple way in python to read the .h file, retrieve the c++ 
enum and provide an access to it in my python script
	- either a simple tool (in a long-term it would be automatically run 
when the c++ package is compiled) generating from the .h file a .py file 
containing the python definition of the enums ?

Thank you for any suggestion.


From atulskulkarni at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 19:06:12 2009
From: atulskulkarni at gmail.com (Atul.)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:06:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python on the web, how to?
Message-ID: 

Hello All,

Needless to say I am new to python and web programming. I am looking
for a quick Python-101 course / tutorial for "using python to
implement dynamic content on web" under some web server. Any pointers
what should I be reading?

Regards,
Atul.


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Tue Aug 18 19:16:07 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:16:07 -0700
Subject: Scope and classes
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908181616y41cab4eah13769e75d59a505d@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 3:47 PM, David wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm trying to understand how scopes work within a class definition.
> I'll quickly illustrate with an example. Say I had the following class
> definition:
>
> class Abc:
> ? ?message = 'Hello World'
>
> ? ?def print_message(self):
> ? ? ? ?print message
>
>>>> instance = Abc()
>>>> instance.print_message()
> NameError: global name 'message' not defined
>
> My question is, why? message is not defined in print_message, but it
> is defined in the enclosing scope (the class)?

A class' scope is never consulted when resolving variable names in its methods.

The scopes consulted are roughly (and in this order):
1. Local variable scope (i.e. of the current function/method)
2. Enclosing functions (if you have functions nested inside other functions)
3. Globals (i.e. module-level variables)
3. Builtins (i.e. the built-in functions and methods, such as len())

To access class-level variables from within instance methods of the
class, you have 2 options:
A. Use the class name, i.e. Abc.message
B. Reference the class indirectly, i.e. self.__class__.message

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From wwn1 at sfu.ca  Tue Aug 18 19:16:33 2009
From: wwn1 at sfu.ca (WilsonOfCanada)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:16:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Raw Strings with Variables
Message-ID: <0d176354-bb6c-4da5-b9b8-b444f6a946e6@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

Hellos,

I know that if you have:

happy = r"C:\moo"
print happy

you get C:\moo instead of C:\\moo

The thing is that I want to do this a variable instead.

ex. testline = fileName.readline()
      rawtestline = r testline

Thanks


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Tue Aug 18 19:18:57 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:18:57 -0700
Subject: Python on the web, how to?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908181618r6be34f68ma7702b8358788602@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 4:06 PM, Atul. wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> Needless to say I am new to python and web programming. I am looking
> for a quick Python-101 course / tutorial for "using python to
> implement dynamic content on web" under some web server. Any pointers
> what should I be reading?

Google for "Python web framework" and take your pick.

Some popular choices:
- Django: http://www.djangoproject.com/
-- associated online book: http://djangobook.com/
- TurboGears: http://turbogears.org/

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From af2012 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 19:33:00 2009
From: af2012 at gmail.com (Allan)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:33:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: recording input from USB port and write to text file
Message-ID: 

Hi! I'm fairly new to Python.  I understand the basics basics but I'm
been trying to write a simple python code that will let me read input
data (such as mouse movement) from my USB port and write it in a text
file and I am so lost.  Can anyone help or direct me to some
resources?  Thank you!


From davidshais at googlemail.com  Tue Aug 18 19:38:15 2009
From: davidshais at googlemail.com (David)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:38:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Scope and classes
References: 
	
Message-ID: <07746be7-368e-4222-82a1-fecb5c2c5da3@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 19, 12:16?am, Chris Rebert  wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 3:47 PM, David wrote:
> > Hi all,
>
> > I'm trying to understand how scopes work within a class definition.
> > I'll quickly illustrate with an example. Say I had the following class
> > definition:
>
> > class Abc:
> > ? ?message = 'Hello World'
>
> > ? ?def print_message(self):
> > ? ? ? ?print message
>
> >>>> instance = Abc()
> >>>> instance.print_message()
> > NameError: global name 'message' not defined
>
> > My question is, why? message is not defined in print_message, but it
> > is defined in the enclosing scope (the class)?
>
> A class' scope is never consulted when resolving variable names in its methods.
>
> The scopes consulted are roughly (and in this order):
> 1. Local variable scope (i.e. of the current function/method)
> 2. Enclosing functions (if you have functions nested inside other functions)
> 3. Globals (i.e. module-level variables)
> 3. Builtins (i.e. the built-in functions and methods, such as len())
>
> To access class-level variables from within instance methods of the
> class, you have 2 options:
> A. Use the class name, i.e. Abc.message
> B. Reference the class indirectly, i.e. self.__class__.message
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --http://blog.rebertia.com

Ah, thanks!


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Tue Aug 18 19:39:38 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 18 Aug 2009 23:39:38 GMT
Subject: Scope and classes
References: 
Message-ID: <0014bf1a$0$2963$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 15:47:09 -0700, David wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I'm trying to understand how scopes work within a class definition. I'll
> quickly illustrate with an example. Say I had the following class
> definition:
> 
> class Abc:
>     message = 'Hello World'
> 
>     def print_message(self):
>         print message
> 
>>>> instance = Abc()
>>>> instance.print_message()
> NameError: global name 'message' not defined
> 
> My question is, why? message is not defined in print_message, but it is
> defined in the enclosing scope (the class)?

It's a deliberate design decision. I don't recall the reasons for it, but 
the class namespace is deliberately excluded from the method scope.

The correct way of writing the above is:

class Abc:
    message = 'Hello World'
    def print_message(self):
        print self.message


self.message will first search the instance namespace for an attribute 
`message`, then search the class, then any superclasses. If you 
specifically want the class attribute, even if the instance masks it with 
an instance attribute of the same name, you do this instead:

        print self.__class__.message



-- 
Steven


From marduk at letterboxes.org  Tue Aug 18 19:39:54 2009
From: marduk at letterboxes.org (Albert Hopkins)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 19:39:54 -0400
Subject: Raw Strings with Variables
In-Reply-To: <0d176354-bb6c-4da5-b9b8-b444f6a946e6@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
References: <0d176354-bb6c-4da5-b9b8-b444f6a946e6@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1250638794.5388.3.camel@centar.nbk>

On Tue, 2009-08-18 at 16:16 -0700, WilsonOfCanada wrote:
> Hellos,
> 
> I know that if you have:
> 
> happy = r"C:\moo"
> print happy
> 
> you get C:\moo instead of C:\\moo
> 
> The thing is that I want to do this a variable instead.
> 
> ex. testline = fileName.readline()
>       rawtestline = r testline

I'm not sure what you are hoping for... Raw strings apply to string
literals.  If you are reading from a file, as above, you need not worry
about it:

$ cat test.txt 
C:\moo
$ python -c 'r = open("test.txt").readline() ; print r'
C:\moo



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Tue Aug 18 19:50:05 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 00:50:05 +0100
Subject: Read C++ enum in python
In-Reply-To: <4a8b3342$0$25403$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4a8b3342$0$25403$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4A8B3E2D.7040702@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Ludo wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I work in a very large project where we have C++ packages and pieces of 
> python code.
> 
> I've been googleing for days but what I find seems really too 
> complicated for what I want to do.
> 
> My business is, in python, to read enum definitions provided by the 
> header file of an c++ package.
> Of course I could open the .h file, read the enum and transcode it by 
> hand into a .py file but the package is regularly updated and thus is 
> the enum.
> 
> My question is then simple : do we have :
>     - either a simple way in python to read the .h file, retrieve the 
> c++ enum and provide an access to it in my python script
>     - either a simple tool (in a long-term it would be automatically run 
> when the c++ package is compiled) generating from the .h file a .py file 
> containing the python definition of the enums ?
> 
> Thank you for any suggestion.

Speaking personally, I'd parse the .h file using a regular expression
(re module) and generate a .py file. Compilers typically have a way of
letting you run external scripts (eg batch files in Windows or, in this
case, a Python script) when an application is compiled.


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Tue Aug 18 19:52:42 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 01:52:42 +0200
Subject: How do I convert an iterator over bytes into a str?
In-Reply-To: <3e3d2ebd-df8a-42a8-9420-0439a965a0d5@v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
References: <3e3d2ebd-df8a-42a8-9420-0439a965a0d5@v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

19-08-2009 o 00:24:20 markscottwright  wrote:

> What's the correct way to turn an iterator over bytes into a string?
> This works, but, ewww:
>     In [8]: "".join(iter("four score and seven years ago"))
>     Out[8]: 'four score and seven years ago'

But it is the correct way (and even recommended over s=s+t or s+=t, when
applicable
-- see:  
http://docs.python.org/library/stdtypes.html#sequence-types-str-unicode-list-tuple-buffer-xrange).

Cheers,
*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From david.birdsong at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 19:58:28 2009
From: david.birdsong at gmail.com (birdsong)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:58:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: basic thread question
References: <20090818201015.GP20434@dragontoe.org>
	
Message-ID: <92338aa1-0913-483a-b950-c73f0fdb0b1f@v37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 18, 3:18?pm, Derek Martin  wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 03:10:15PM -0500, Derek Martin wrote:
> > I have some simple threaded code... ?If I run this
> > with an arg of 1 (start one thread), it pegs one cpu, as I would
> > expect. ?If I run it with an arg of 2 (start 2 threads), it uses both
> > CPUs, but utilization of both is less than 50%. ?Can anyone explain
> > why? ?
>
> Ah, searching while waiting for an answer (the e-mail gateway is a bit
> slow, it seems...) I discovered that the GIL is the culprate.
> Evidently this question comes up a lot. ?It would probably save a lot
> of time on the part of those who answer questions here, as well as
> those implementing solutions in Python, if whoever is maintaining the
> docs these days would put a blurb about this in the docs in big bold
> letters... ?Concurrency being perhaps the primary reason to use
> threading, essentially it means that Python is not useful for the
> sorts of problems that one would be inclined to solve they way my code
> works (or rather, was meant to). ?It would be very helpful to know
> that *before* one tried to implement a solution that way... especially
> for solutions significantly less trivial than mine. ;-)
>
> Thanks
>
> --
> Derek D. Martinhttp://www.pizzashack.org/
> GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D
>
> ?application_pgp-signature_part
> < 1KViewDownload

I would still watch that video which will explain a bit more about the
GIL.


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Tue Aug 18 20:03:44 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 19 Aug 2009 00:03:44 GMT
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<90cd2c33-5f2d-4a29-b267-67f233ae2946@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
	<4A8ADF6D.2030405@sequans.com>
	
Message-ID: <0014c4c0$0$2963$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:13:02 -0400, Simon Forman wrote:

> Sexism, racism, homophobia, religious intolerance, etc., all stem from a
> fundamental forgetfulness of our Unity in God (as I would put it) and

Of the tens of thousands of Gods that people have invented, which is the 
one we're supposed to believe in? I always forget which ones we're 
supposed to dismiss as nonsense, and which one we're not.


> this is perhaps the single greatest cause of human misery.

Okay, we're Unified in God. Great. What does that actually mean, really? 
In the struggle to survive in a world of shortages, disease, natural 
disasters and disputes between well-meaning but incompatible viewpoints 
(to say nothing of the selfish and greedy), what practical difference 
does it make?


-- 
Steven


From cmpython at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 20:04:08 2009
From: cmpython at gmail.com (Che M)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:04:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: GUI interface builder for python
References: 
	<21bca3cf-b2c7-47d7-9142-26c9fd015f92@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com> 
	<02ec7cd9-e749-46d3-8b25-75d85794f292@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: <02bf2081-4f4a-4219-8441-1d48f09af338@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 18, 10:54?am, sturlamolden  wrote:
> On 17 Aug, 17:19, Che M  wrote:
>
> > Boa (Boa Constructor) is really nice for wxPython GUI
> > work, but it has some bugs when using Linux that might
> > be dealbreakers for the user. ?At least I have had
> > problems on Ubuntu 8.10 64 bit (but none or very few
>
> I prefer wxFormBuilder over Boa.

Why?


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Aug 18 20:08:20 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 09:08:20 +0900
Subject: sub-list extraction, logical indexation
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Pierre wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
> 
> I would like to know if it is possible to extract a sub-list from a
> list ?
> 
> typically if :
> 
> L =[[1, 2, 3],[4, 5, 6],[3] ]
> 
> How to extract easily the elements 0 and 2 of L in order to get :
> 
> L2 =[[1, 2, 3],[3] ]

L2 = [L[0],L[2]]
> 
> Moreover, I would like to know if it is possible to use logical
> indexation such that :
> 
> index = [ True, False, True]
> L2 = L

use zip(index,L) in a for loop
> 
> or usual indexation, something like
> index=[0, 2]
> L2 = L

#untried
L2=[]
for i in index
L2.append(L[i])

tjr



From wwn1 at sfu.ca  Tue Aug 18 20:09:29 2009
From: wwn1 at sfu.ca (WilsonOfCanada)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:09:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Raw Strings with Variables
References: <0d176354-bb6c-4da5-b9b8-b444f6a946e6@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

You're right, but the moment I append it onto a list, it would become
C:\\moo.

arrPlaces = []
intPoint =0

while (len(testline)):
        testline = fileName.readline()
        print testline
        arrPlaces[intPoint].append(testline)
        intPoint += 1

print arrPlaces

> C:\moo
> C:\supermoo
> ['C:\\moo', 'C:\\supermoo']

Is there a way to stop that when appending to the dictionary?

Thanks


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Tue Aug 18 20:10:58 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 02:10:58 +0200
Subject: Scope and classes
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

19-08-2009 o 00:47:09 David  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm trying to understand how scopes work within a class definition.
> I'll quickly illustrate with an example. Say I had the following class
> definition:
>
> class Abc:
>     message = 'Hello World'
>
>     def print_message(self):
>         print message
>
>>>> instance = Abc()
>>>> instance.print_message()
> NameError: global name 'message' not defined
>
> My question is, why? message is not defined in print_message, but it
> is defined in the enclosing scope (the class)?

Note that when *running* the code that is *inside* print_message() method
called within the global scope, the outer (enclosing) scope is indeed the
global scope (the scope in which e.g. 'instance' name exists; note that
e.g. 'print instance' in that method would be ok).

As Chris wrote, class' scope (contrary to outer function scope) is not
considered as the 'enclosing' scope.

The only ways to reach Abc's attribute 'message' from that method are:
* 'Abc.message'
* 'self.__class__.message'
* 'self.message' (unless there is an instance attribute 'message' which
overrides the class attribute).

Cheers,
*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Tue Aug 18 20:17:22 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 02:17:22 +0200
Subject: Scope and classes
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

19-08-2009 o 02:10:58 Jan Kaliszewski  wrote:

> The only ways to reach Abc's attribute 'message' from that method are:
> * 'Abc.message'
> * 'self.__class__.message'
> * 'self.message' (unless there is an instance attribute 'message' which
> overrides the class attribute).

And of course getattr(Abc), getattr(self.__class__) etc. :-)

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Tue Aug 18 20:18:13 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:18:13 -0700
Subject: Raw Strings with Variables
In-Reply-To: 
References: <0d176354-bb6c-4da5-b9b8-b444f6a946e6@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908181718w6eb8befbp876e8cd831ec3c8e@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 5:09 PM, WilsonOfCanada wrote:
> You're right, but the moment I append it onto a list, it would become
> C:\\moo.
>
> arrPlaces = []
> intPoint =0
>
> while (len(testline)):
> ? ? ? ?testline = fileName.readline()
> ? ? ? ?print testline
> ? ? ? ?arrPlaces[intPoint].append(testline)
> ? ? ? ?intPoint += 1
>
> print arrPlaces
>
>> C:\moo
>> C:\supermoo
>> ['C:\\moo', 'C:\\supermoo']

That's because the list uses repr() rather than str() to stringify its
items when it is output. repr() shows escape sequences rather than the
literal characters and adds the surrounding quote marks, but the
string is not modified upon placement in the container.

Study this interpreter session:
>>> a = r"C:\supermoo"
>>> b = "\t" #a tab character
>>> c = [a, b]
>>> print a #note the lack of quotes in the output
C:\supermoo
>>> print repr(a) #note the quotes and \\
'C:\\supermoo'
>>> print b #we see the literal tab
	
>>> print repr(b) #we see the escape sequence
'\t'
>>> print c #note how this matches the repr() output from earlier
['C:\\supermoo', '\t']
>>> print c[0], c[1], "end" #but the actual strings are the same as before
C:\supermoo 	end

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Tue Aug 18 20:30:36 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 02:30:36 +0200
Subject: Raw Strings with Variables
In-Reply-To: 
References: <0d176354-bb6c-4da5-b9b8-b444f6a946e6@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

Dnia 19-08-2009 o 02:09:29 WilsonOfCanada  napisa?(a):

> You're right, but the moment I append it onto a list, it would become
> C:\\moo.

No, it would not. Really!

>  C:\moo
>  C:\supermoo
>  ['C:\\moo', 'C:\\supermoo']

It is not the matter of content of the string but only of a way of
*presentation* of it by print:

     print arrPlaces

in the example is roughly equivalent to:

     print '[' + repr(a_list[0]) + ', ' + repr(a_list[1]) + ']'


So try:

     print a_list[0]
Output:
     C:\moo

     print a_list[1]
Output:
     C:\supermoo

     print ', '.join(arrPlaces)
Output:
     C:\moo, C:\supermoo

     print ', '.join("'%s'" % item for item in arrPlaces)
Output:
     'C:\moo', 'C:\supermoo'


Cheers,
*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Aug 18 20:42:13 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 10:42:13 +1000
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<90cd2c33-5f2d-4a29-b267-67f233ae2946@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
	<4A8ADF6D.2030405@sequans.com>
	
Message-ID: <87hbw4fxcq.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Simon Forman  writes:

> Sexism, racism, homophobia, religious intolerance, etc., all stem from
> a fundamental forgetfulness of our Unity in God (as I would put it)

It seems odd, for someone who cites religious intolerance as a problem,
to then assert an extremely divisive religious idea.

We're all unified by our humanity. Bringing any god into the picture is
surely counter to any goals of unity.

> We are one family.

Agreed.

-- 
 \           ?Are you thinking what I'm thinking, Pinky?? ?Uh... yeah, |
  `\     Brain, but where are we going to find rubber pants our size?? |
_o__)                                           ?_Pinky and The Brain_ |
Ben Finney


From mauriceling at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 20:49:56 2009
From: mauriceling at gmail.com (mauriceling@acm.org)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:49:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Call for Papers - PyCon Asia Pacific 2010
Message-ID: <04687d05-2017-4002-ba11-6d50f684b2f3@y28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

Dear fellow friends and colleagues,

I apologize if you had received multiple copies of this Call for
Papers.
Maurice
==================================================================
------------------------------------------------------------
Call for Papers - PyCon Asia Pacific 2010
------------------------------------------------------------

PyCon Asia Pacific 2010 represents a major development for the Python
community in the Asia Pacific region. In Asia Pacific, we are
encouraged by the country-level initiatives of Python conferences in
India and New Zealand. We fully expect that PyCon Asia Pacific will be
hosted by different APAC countries as the momentum of Python develops
in the region.

Quote : ??Python development in the Asia Pacific region is proceeding
rapidly? I would very much like to highlight the special nature of
this conference?. I hope that my presence will help to further
international cooperation on Python development?
Steven Holden, Chairman, Python Software Foundation (PSF)
Keynote, PyCon Asia Pacific 2010

PyCon Asia Pacific 2010?s is looking for proposals from the Python
community to fill its formal presentation tracks. The Conference Days
will be June 10-11, 2010 in Singapore, preceded by a Tutorial Day
(June 9). (http://apac.pycon.org)

Important Dates
-----------------------
?	Call for Papers: August 15, 2009
?	Deadline for Paper Submissions: February 1, 2010
?	Notification of Paper Acceptance: March 15, 2010
?	Conference Registration Open: March 15, 2010
?	Submission of Camera-Ready Paper: April 15, 2010
?	Conference Days: June 10 - 11, 2010 (preceded by tutorials on the
June 9, 2010)

PyCon Topics
--------------------
PyCon conferences worldwide have had a broad range of presentations,
ranging from reports on academic and commercial projects to tutorials
and case studies. We hope to continue that tradition here at PyCon
Asia Pacific in Singapore. As long as the presentation is interesting
and potentially useful to the Python community, it will be considered
for inclusion in the program. We are especially interested in short
presentations that will teach conference-goers something new and
useful.

Suitable topics for PyCon Asia Pacific 2010 presentations include, but
are not limited to:
?	Core Python and other implementations: IronPython, Jython, PyPy and
Stackless.
?	Python libraries and extensions
?	Business Applications
?	Databases
?	Embedding and Extending Python
?	Game Programming
?	GUI Programming
?	Network Programming
?	Python in IT Security
?	Open Source Python projects
?	Packaging Issues
?	Programming Tools
?	Project Best Practices
?	Python in Education, Science and Math
?	System Administration
?	Web Programming (Django, Zope, TurboGears, WSGI)

Talk Format
-----------------
The preferred length for talks is 30 minutes. Session lengths include
time for audience questions. You should budget at least five minutes
for questions; for example, a 30-minute talk will be 25 minutes of
presentation and 5 minutes of questions. Open Space rooms will also be
available for follow-up sessions.

Proposal Submission
-------------------------------
The primary author should submit a proposal, after which additional
authors can be added. This is to help us make arrangements for
reviewers and draft the conference programme. The proposal must
include the following:
?	Talk title.
?	Choice of one or more category tag.
?	Level. Indicate the intended audience difficulty level i.e.
beginner, intermediate or advanced.
?	Summary (max 100 words) for the website.
?	Description : Detailed outline for review; notes for reviewers and
permission for your talk to be recorded.

Your proposal will be reviewed by the programme committee. If your
proposal is accepted, you should thereafter include:
?	a companion paper (up to 30 pages) OR
?	an extended abstract (up to 3 pages)

along with your presentation. Go to http://us.pycon.org/2008/conference/proposals/
example1/ for an example of a conference talk proposal.

Please send your proposal (and any questions) to
conference at pugs.org.sg.

Companion Paper or Extended Abstract Submission
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
All presenters should submit a paper by the deadline above, with or
without prior proposal submission.

This submission is to be your full paper (companion paper or extended
abstract), not a draft. It should contain all of the usual aspects of
a paper such as an abstract, introduction, body and conclusion. Please
ensure that this submission has had its grammar and spelling corrected
and that code snippets work.

Your paper will be peer-reviewed by the programme committee and a
notice of paper acceptance with review comments will be sent to the
author(s) on March 15, 2010.

Accepted papers can be amended by the author(s), taking into account
of reviewers' comments and submit for publication by April 15, 2010.

?	All papers will be published in The Python Papers Monograph series
(www.pythonpapers.org). We suggest, but do not require, all authors to
place their papers under the Creative Commons license.
?	Please see http://www.pythonpapers.org/instAuthor.html for the
preferred formats of submission.
?	Please submit your papers at http://ojs.pythonpapers.org/index.php/tppm/author.
Your paper allows attendees who attended your talk a chance to refresh
their memories about your presentation, and gives attendees who missed
your talk a chance to learn from you anyway. Make sure your paper
includes - at the very least - a brief introduction to your subject
material and a list of further resources.

Assistance
----------------
PyCon Asia Pacific 2010 in Singapore cannot offer payment or free
registration to all conference speakers. However, financial aid will
be available were possible, and giving a talk is a great rationale. If
you require financial aid in order to attend PyCon Asia Pacific 2010
in Singapore, please note it in your proposal. If you have any
questions, contact conference at pugs.org.sg.


From wwn1 at sfu.ca  Tue Aug 18 20:51:31 2009
From: wwn1 at sfu.ca (WilsonOfCanada)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:51:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Raw Strings with Variables
References: <0d176354-bb6c-4da5-b9b8-b444f6a946e6@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

However, when I send the list over as a dictionary for HTML:

d["places"] = arrPlaces

return render_to_response('rentSearch.html', d)

the HTML using Django has:

{{ places }} but returns ['C:\\moo', 'C:\\supermoo']


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Tue Aug 18 21:00:56 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 18:00:56 -0700
Subject: Raw Strings with Variables
In-Reply-To: 
References: <0d176354-bb6c-4da5-b9b8-b444f6a946e6@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908181800r62abeb00t9632b3f336e2e0c1@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 5:51 PM, WilsonOfCanada wrote:
> However, when I send the list over as a dictionary for HTML:
>
> d["places"] = arrPlaces
>
> return render_to_response('rentSearch.html', d)
>
> the HTML using Django has:
>
> {{ places }} but returns ['C:\\moo', 'C:\\supermoo']

As we've explained already, containers (such as dictionaries and
lists) use repr() to display their elements, and repr() for strings
shows the escape sequences (e.g. \\ \t \n) and adds surrounding
quotes. Hence the output you're getting.
If you don't like the way it looks, then either send the list through
a filter that outputs it like you want by accessing the elements
individually, or iterate over the contents of the list in your
template and output it like you want.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From http  Tue Aug 18 21:07:25 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 18 Aug 2009 18:07:25 -0700
Subject: Editing a wiki
References: <62993053-871d-4dd6-96b0-10548ca4ed29@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7x1vn8har6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

KillSwitch  writes:
> Is it possible to edit a wiki page with python, including logging in
> to edit the page, and inserting text into the edit box, etc.

If you are talking about MediaWiki (the software behind Wikipedia),
it already has an API for which there are several Python clients.
See:

   http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API
   http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API:Client_Code

If you are looking to use Python (or any other language) to
automatically edit Wikipedia itself, you need approval for that.
See:

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bot_policy


From davea at ieee.org  Tue Aug 18 21:07:27 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 21:07:27 -0400
Subject: Start-up program
In-Reply-To: <4A8ABA78.8050605@it.uu.se>
References: <4A8ABA78.8050605@it.uu.se>
Message-ID: <4A8B504F.8010307@ieee.org>

Virgil Stokes wrote:
> 
How 
> difficult is to create a program that will be executed when Windows 
> Vista is started? As Windows Calendar does, for example.
>
> I am actually more interested in the Python tools that might be used 
> for this task. I hope that this question is not inappropriate for the 
> list. :-\
>
> --V
>
>
> 

>
The three responses I've seen probably aren't what you're asking.

You have to make a distinction between when Windows starts, and when a 
user logs in.  If you're interested in the point when the user logs in, 
all you need to do is make a shortcut for the script, no special 
executable is needed.  Just put the shortcut in the Startup folder.

But if you're really interested in the point when Windows starts, you 
have three options.  Most painful is making a service.  But that's 
unnecessary.

Second way involves the system policy:  
HKLM\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft|Windows\System\Scripts\
     but anything started that way has a 10 minute time limit before 
it's automatically killed.

Third, and easiest way is  the task scheduler:
   Start Menu/All Programs/Accessories/System Tools/ScheduledTasks

Add your program in with the scheduled task wizard.  There are various 
scheduling choices, and one of them is called something like "boot".   
Again, you needn't make a separate EXE file, since Python.exe is already 
a perfectly valid one.

It's likely that Vista has some security oddities, and I don't have any 
pointers for that.

But even in XP, one thing you might need to do is "Fast Logon 
Optimization".  It's enabled by default, but if somebody has turned it 
off, then logon might be blocked till your special script finishes.

DaveA


From davidshais at googlemail.com  Tue Aug 18 21:12:39 2009
From: davidshais at googlemail.com (David)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 18:12:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Scope and classes
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 19, 1:17?am, "Jan Kaliszewski"  wrote:
> 19-08-2009 o 02:10:58 Jan Kaliszewski  wrote:
>
> > The only ways to reach Abc's attribute 'message' from that method are:
> > * 'Abc.message'
> > * 'self.__class__.message'
> > * 'self.message' (unless there is an instance attribute 'message' which
> > overrides the class attribute).
>
> And of course getattr(Abc), getattr(self.__class__) etc. :-)
>
> --
> Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 

Out of 'Abc.message' and 'self.message', which is the favoured
convention? It would be very easy to accidentally override
'self.messages' with an instance attribute!


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Aug 18 21:22:32 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 11:22:32 +1000
Subject: Scope and classes
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: <878whgfvhj.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

David  writes:

> Out of 'Abc.message' and 'self.message', which is the favoured
> convention?

It's not a matter of convention. They mean different things, so you use
each depending on what you mean.

> It would be very easy to accidentally override 'self.messages' with an
> instance attribute!

Right. So you use ?Abc.message? when you specifically want a class
independent of any instance, and you use ?self.message? when you want
the attribute of this instance (with fallback to the usual resolution
order).

-- 
 \      ?Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex? |
  `\    It takes a touch of genius ? and a lot of courage ? to move in |
_o__)                        the opposite direction.? ?Albert Einstein |
Ben Finney


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Aug 18 22:01:29 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 12:01:29 +1000
Subject: Scope and classes
References: 
	
	
	
	<878whgfvhj.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <874os4ftom.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Ben Finney  writes:

> Right. So you use ?Abc.message? when you specifically want a class
> independent of any instance

That's ?a class attribute independent of any instance?, of course.

-- 
 \        ?Humanity has advanced, when it has advanced, not because it |
  `\     has been sober, responsible, and cautious, but because it has |
_o__)            been playful, rebellious, and immature.? ?Tom Robbins |
Ben Finney


From gu.yakahughes at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 22:25:07 2009
From: gu.yakahughes at gmail.com (yaka)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 19:25:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Editing a wiki
References: <62993053-871d-4dd6-96b0-10548ca4ed29@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<7x1vn8har6.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <85b24ce4-2cbb-402d-8027-f3025c795db0@r18g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 18, 6:07?pm, Paul Rubin  wrote:
> KillSwitch  writes:
> > Is it possible to edit a wiki page with python, including logging in
> > to edit the page, and inserting text into the edit box, etc.
>
> If you are talking about MediaWiki (the software behind Wikipedia),
> it already has an API for which there are several Python clients.
> See:
>
> ? ?http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API
> ? ?http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API:Client_Code
>
> If you are looking to use Python (or any other language) to
> automatically edit Wikipedia itself, you need approval for that.
> See:
>
> ?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bot_policy

It's actually a wiki owned by a friend.


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Tue Aug 18 22:32:14 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 19:32:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How do I convert an iterator over bytes into a str?
References: <3e3d2ebd-df8a-42a8-9420-0439a965a0d5@v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <9e60a01a-46e3-4aab-bbb0-845e4a08fb15@i8g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 19, 8:24?am, markscottwright  wrote:
> This does what I expected:
> ? ? In [6]: list(iter([1,2,3,4,5]))
> ? ? Out[6]: [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
>
> But this appears to be doing a __repr__ rather than making me a nice
> string:
> ? ?In [7]: str(iter("four score and seven years ago"))
> ? ?Out[7]: ''
>
> What's the correct way to turn an iterator over bytes into a string?
> This works, but, ewww:
> ? ? In [8]: "".join(iter("four score and seven years ago"))
> ? ? Out[8]: 'four score and seven years ago'

There is no such thing as an "iterator over bytes" in Python 2.x.
There is no such concept as "convert an iterator over  into
a str" object.

What you have is an iterator over str objects of length 1. To do what
you appear to actually want to do (concatenate a bunch of strings), it
is recomemnded to use ''.join(str_iterable).


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 23:02:34 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 20:02:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How do I convert an iterator over bytes into a str?
References: <3e3d2ebd-df8a-42a8-9420-0439a965a0d5@v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 18, 3:24?pm, markscottwright  wrote:
> This does what I expected:
> ? ? In [6]: list(iter([1,2,3,4,5]))
> ? ? Out[6]: [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
>
> But this appears to be doing a __repr__ rather than making me a nice
> string:
> ? ?In [7]: str(iter("four score and seven years ago"))
> ? ?Out[7]: ''

Unfortunately, str() is overloaded in that it tries to be both a sorta-
pretty-printer and a constructor.  You're trying to use it as a
constructor, but it wants to be a sorta-pretty-printer here.

Anyway, str is different from other container objects since, unlike
other containers, strings can't contain arbitrary Python objects.


> What's the correct way to turn an iterator over bytes into a string?
> This works, but, ewww:
> ? ? In [8]: "".join(iter("four score and seven years ago"))
> ? ? Out[8]: 'four score and seven years ago'

This is the correct way.

If the syntax bothers you can always do this:

    str.join("",iter("four score"))

I think "".join is ugly as hell but in this case convenience beats
beauty for me.


Carl Banks


From grante at visi.com  Tue Aug 18 23:23:34 2009
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 22:23:34 -0500
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<90cd2c33-5f2d-4a29-b267-67f233ae2946@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
	<4A8ADF6D.2030405@sequans.com>
	
	<87hbw4fxcq.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-19, Ben Finney  wrote:
> Simon Forman  writes:

>> We are one family.
>
> Agreed.

That's not much comfort if you've seen the way many families
get along with each other.

-- 
Grant



From sajmikins at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 23:27:39 2009
From: sajmikins at gmail.com (Simon Forman)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 23:27:39 -0400
Subject: Inheriting dictionary
In-Reply-To: <2fe6d216-1e8f-4de1-8c36-d4ee11bb7233@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
References: <95736695-29b5-4185-8764-8eca140b76d2@e18g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
	<2fe6d216-1e8f-4de1-8c36-d4ee11bb7233@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50f98a4c0908182027j214c922dx3f82d6114c6eda3a@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 6:08 PM, Simon Forman wrote:
> On Aug 18, 3:44?pm, Pavel Panchekha  wrote:
>> I want a dictionary that will transparently "inherit" from a parent
>> dictionary. So, for example:
>>
>> """
>> a = InheritDict({1: "one", 2: "two", 4: "four"})
>> b = InheritDict({3: "three", 4: "foobar"}, inherit_from=a)
>>
>> a[1] # "one"
>> a[4] # "four"
>> b[1] # "one"
>> b[3] # "three"
>> b[4] # "foobar"
>> """
>>
>> I've written something like this in Python already, but I'm wondering
>> if something like this already exists, preferably written in C, for
>> speed.
>
>
> I would consider something like the following:
>
>
> a = {1: "one", 2: "two", 4: "four"}
> b = {3: "three", 4: "foobar"}
>
>
> from functools import partial
>
>
> def getter(first, second, key):
> ? ?try:
> ? ? ? ?return first(key)
> ? ?except KeyError:
> ? ? ? ?return second(key)
>
>
> f = partial(getter, b.__getitem__, a.__getitem__)
>
>
> # Or, if you know you'll be getting a lot of KeyErrors, you
> # can use get() instead of __getitem__().
>
> def getter1(first, second, key, sentinel=None):
> ? ?item = first(key, sentinel)
> ? ?if item is sentinel:
> ? ? ? ?item = second(key)
> ? ?return item
>
> g = partial(getter1, b.get, a.__getitem__)
>
>
> HTH,
> ~Simon
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

Since you're going for speed the overhead of using partial (which
creates a wrapper object around the getter function) can be replaced
by something like this:

def makeGetter(first, second):
    def getter(key):
        try:
            return first(key)
        except KeyError:
            return second(key)
    return getter


f = makeGetter(b.__getitem__, a.__getitem__)


From sajmikins at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 23:43:48 2009
From: sajmikins at gmail.com (Simon Forman)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 23:43:48 -0400
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
In-Reply-To: <0014c4c0$0$2963$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<90cd2c33-5f2d-4a29-b267-67f233ae2946@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
	<4A8ADF6D.2030405@sequans.com>
	
	<0014c4c0$0$2963$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <50f98a4c0908182043i8a619fdydb9311eadf7cef9@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 8:03 PM, Steven
D'Aprano wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:13:02 -0400, Simon Forman wrote:
>
>> Sexism, racism, homophobia, religious intolerance, etc., all stem from a
>> fundamental forgetfulness of our Unity in God (as I would put it) and
>
> Of the tens of thousands of Gods that people have invented, which is the
> one we're supposed to believe in? I always forget which ones we're
> supposed to dismiss as nonsense, and which one we're not.

Why the heck are you asking me?  (I'd say "/you/ are the God you
should believe in.")

>> this is perhaps the single greatest cause of human misery.
>
> Okay, we're Unified in God. Great. What does that actually mean, really?
> In the struggle to survive in a world of shortages, disease, natural
> disasters and disputes between well-meaning but incompatible viewpoints
> (to say nothing of the selfish and greedy), what practical difference
> does it make?

It means (to me, at least) that underlying all the BS and misery
there's a reason to hope, a reality the transcends this squalid
mud-ball Earth, and can overcome it completely if tapped.

It's more than a symbol with meaning, Unity is a phenomenon that can
be lived, experienced. It can be practiced and deepened.  Done well,
the practical difference it makes defies measurement.

(That's why calling folks on sexist behavior is important enough to
butt in on a thread on usenet with an OT reprimand. IMHO)

Regards,
~Simon


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Aug 18 23:49:12 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 13:49:12 +1000
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<90cd2c33-5f2d-4a29-b267-67f233ae2946@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
	<4A8ADF6D.2030405@sequans.com>
	
	<87hbw4fxcq.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
Message-ID: <87vdkkea4n.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Grant Edwards  writes:

> On 2009-08-19, Ben Finney  wrote:
> > Simon Forman  writes:
> >> We are one family.
> >
> > Agreed.
>
> That's not much comfort if you've seen the way many families get along
> with each other.

Demonstrable facts, by nature of being independently verifiable, are a
better point of unification than comforting illusions, however
confidently asserted.

-- 
 \      ?Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than |
  `\  it ceases to be serious when people laugh.? ?George Bernard Shaw |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From sajmikins at gmail.com  Tue Aug 18 23:49:45 2009
From: sajmikins at gmail.com (Simon Forman)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 23:49:45 -0400
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
In-Reply-To: <87hbw4fxcq.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<90cd2c33-5f2d-4a29-b267-67f233ae2946@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
	<4A8ADF6D.2030405@sequans.com>
	
	<87hbw4fxcq.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <50f98a4c0908182049t63322bbiebf53065562cb2@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 8:42 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
> Simon Forman  writes:
>
>> Sexism, racism, homophobia, religious intolerance, etc., all stem from
>> a fundamental forgetfulness of our Unity in God (as I would put it)
>
> It seems odd, for someone who cites religious intolerance as a problem,
> to then assert an extremely divisive religious idea.

Well, I did say, "(as I would put it)" to try to cushion the blow.

> We're all unified by our humanity. Bringing any god into the picture is
> surely counter to any goals of unity.

Unity "in humanity" is, to my way of thinking, the same as Unity "in
God".  I think Unity, like None, is a built-in singleton, so to speak.

>> We are one family.
>
> Agreed.

<3


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Aug 19 00:05:53 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 14:05:53 +1000
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<90cd2c33-5f2d-4a29-b267-67f233ae2946@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
	<4A8ADF6D.2030405@sequans.com>
	
	<87hbw4fxcq.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
Message-ID: <87r5v8e9cu.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Simon Forman  writes:

> On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 8:42 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
> > We're all unified by our humanity. Bringing any god into the picture
> > is surely counter to any goals of unity.
>
> Unity "in humanity" is, to my way of thinking, the same as Unity "in
> God".

Then you're playing Humpty-Dumpty games with words. You know very well
that ?God? has established meanings entirely different from ?humanity?,
and those meanings played a part in your choice of that word.

I maintain that you can't consistently make a declaration in favour of
human unity and unfounded religious assertions.

> I think Unity, like None, is a built-in singleton, so to speak.

This is white noise.

> >> We are one family.
> >
> > Agreed.
>
> <3

I think we can peaceably leave it at that.

-- 
 \        ?Spam will be a thing of the past in two years' time.? ?Bill |
  `\                                                 Gates, 2004-01-24 |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 00:14:05 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 21:14:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> 
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<90cd2c33-5f2d-4a29-b267-67f233ae2946@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com> 
	<4A8ADF6D.2030405@sequans.com>
	 
	<87hbw4fxcq.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	 
	<87vdkkea4n.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 18, 8:49?pm, Ben Finney  wrote:
> Grant Edwards  writes:
> > On 2009-08-19, Ben Finney  wrote:
> > > Simon Forman  writes:
> > >> We are one family.
>
> > > Agreed.
>
> > That's not much comfort if you've seen the way many families get along
> > with each other.
>
> Demonstrable facts, by nature of being independently verifiable, are a
> better point of unification than comforting illusions, however
> confidently asserted.

You know, if you're going to escalate a budding flame war the least
you could do is to choose to do it some other way than by following up
to an obvious joke, probably one designed to diffuse the ill-feeling.


Carl Banks


From mensanator at aol.com  Wed Aug 19 00:37:04 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 21:37:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> 
	
	 
	<1fa1663b-a1cb-42d4-890b-0617b73e8816@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> 
	<4A89CEA2.10400@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	 
	<0014291d$0$2963$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <58ea46ae-0ad0-4d63-b3ba-7ed693a2b381@d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 18, 7:59?am, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:36:49 +0200, Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> > MRAB wrote:
> >> Carl Banks wrote:
> >>> On Aug 17, 10:03 am, Jean-Michel Pichavant 
> >>> wrote:
> >>>> I'm no English native, but I already heard women/men referring to a
> >>>> group as "guys", no matter that group gender configuration. It's even
> >>>> used for group composed exclusively of women. Moreover it looks like
> >>>> a *very* friendly form, so there is really nothing to worry about it.
>
> >>> I like how being very friendly means calling people after a guy who
> >>> tried to blow up the English Parliament.
>
> >> Guy Fawkes adopted the name Guido while fighting for the Spanish in the
> >> Low Countries:
>
> >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes
>
> > I didn't get Carl's reference. The only thing I know about blowing the
> > parliament is from the movie V for Vendetta (no comment please !). Now
> > thanks to your link:
> > "In 18th-century England, the term "guy" was used to refer to an effigy
> >  of Fawkes, which would be paraded
> > around town by children on the anniversary of the conspiracy"
>
> > Well, my knowledge is much too low to get this kind of reference from
> > the start. :-/
>
> "Guy" is an old English name, related to the old French name "Gy" and
> Italian "Guido". It's originally derived from the Old German for "wood"
> or "warrior".
>
> After Guy Fawkes tried to blow up the English Parliament house, and was
> executed, the British government encouraged people to burn effigies of
> him. These became known as "guys", which eventually became slang for an
> ugly man, which later became slang for any man, and in recent years, any
> person.
>
> So the irony is that the friendly term "guys", referring to a group of
> people, is derived from the name of an 18th century

You're off by at least a century.

> religious terrorist.

As were all members of parliament including the king.

>
> One can only wonder whether in 200 years time people will walk into the
> office and say "Hey you osamas, they're giving away free donuts down
> stairs, anyone want some?"



Q: What's white and flies across the ocean?

A: Lord Mountbatten's tennis shoes.



Ain't so fuckin' funny, is it?
(Unless you're Irish, in which case it's hysterical).

>
> --
> Steven



From gallium.arsenide at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 00:44:01 2009
From: gallium.arsenide at gmail.com (John Yeung)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 21:44:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Code formatting question: conditional expression
References:  
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 18, 1:25?pm, John Posner  wrote:
> BTW, from the (admittedly few) responses to my original
> post, it seems there's some sentiment that "conditional
> expressions" are a non-Pythonic misfeature. Interesting ...

Well, it's not like Guido was especially eager to add it in the first
place.

I personally wouldn't call it a misfeature, but it shares with lambda
the property that it's best used when what you need to say with it is
very short.

John Y.


From mensanator at aol.com  Wed Aug 19 00:52:43 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 21:52:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> 
	
	 
	<1fa1663b-a1cb-42d4-890b-0617b73e8816@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> 
	<9b8c48a3-b050-4a13-83f5-bc4185c62bdc@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com> 
	 
	 
	<86bb893a-344a-4c7b-9fc6-67d9f42c7607@q14g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <62dbf088-4510-40d0-af3e-3feeb291d6e4@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 17, 11:35?pm, Carl Banks  wrote:
> On Aug 17, 8:49?pm, Mensanator  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 17, 8:04 pm, Carl Banks  wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 17, 5:40 pm, Mensanator  wrote:
>
> > > > On Aug 17, 4:06 pm, Carl Banks  wrote:
>
> > > > > On Aug 17, 10:03 am, Jean-Michel Pichavant 
> > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > I'm no English native, but I already heard women/men referring to a
> > > > > > group as "guys", no matter that group gender configuration. It's even
> > > > > > used for group composed exclusively of women. Moreover it looks like a
> > > > > > *very* friendly form, so there is really nothing to worry about it.
>
> > > > > I like how being very friendly means calling people after a guy who
> > > > > tried to blow up the English Parliament.
>
> > > > So?
>
> > > I also like how making an amusing pointless observation
>
> > Pointless, yes, but what was amusing abot the observation?
>
> The irony that in being friendly that you're calling someone a
> terrorist. ?

People of Irish Catholic heritage find that extremely offensive,
like asking how many Jews you can fit into a Volswagen.

> I guess I shouldn't have expected you to get it.

Oh, I got it alright, moreso than you could possibly
imagine.

>
> > > gets people all huffy.
>
> > That wasn't huffy. You want to see huffy, make a wisecrack
> > comparing mothballs to Zyklon B, you'll REALLY get a load
> > of huffy replies.
>
> > > (BTW, lest anyone is not aware, that is the origin of the word "guy",
>
> > It most certainly is not.
>
> My dictionary disagrees with you.

hen yor dictionary is wrong. Or, more likely, you have
comprehension problems. People have been named "Guy"
for centuries prior to Mr. Fawkes.

Try reading my whole post before shouting your mouth off.

>
> > Maybe the origin of that
> > word's useage as a genric reference to a male, but
> > you didn't say that.
>
> > > this was not some random association.)
>
> > Penny for the guy?
>
> Probably that phrase was part of the word's gradual common adoption.

Kinda why I mentioned it. Duh.

>
> Carl Banks



From mensanator at aol.com  Wed Aug 19 01:07:09 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 22:07:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> 
	
	 
	<1fa1663b-a1cb-42d4-890b-0617b73e8816@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> 
	<4A89CEA2.10400@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 18, 6:36?am, Jean-Michel Pichavant 
wrote:
> MRAB wrote:
> > Carl Banks wrote:
> >> On Aug 17, 10:03 am, Jean-Michel Pichavant 
> >> wrote:
> >>> I'm no English native, but I already heard women/men referring to a
> >>> group as "guys", no matter that group gender configuration. It's even
> >>> used for group composed exclusively of women. Moreover it looks like a
> >>> *very* friendly form, so there is really nothing to worry about it.
>
> >> I like how being very friendly means calling people after a guy who
> >> tried to blow up the English Parliament.
>
> > Guy Fawkes adopted the name Guido while fighting for the Spanish in the
> > Low Countries:
>
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes
>
> I didn't get Carl's reference. The only thing I know about blowing the
> parliament is from the movie V for Vendetta (no comment please !).
> Now thanks to your link:
> "In 18th-century England, the term "guy" was used to refer to an effigy
>  of Fawkes, which would be paraded
> around town by children on the anniversary of the conspiracy"
>
> Well, my knowledge is much too low to get this kind of reference from
> the start. :-/

So I guess you have no clue WHY Mr. Fawkes would want
to blow up the parliment and assassinate the king.
Read up a bit on how just how the Church of England
came to be and it will be quite obvious.

On some TV show, someone did a re-creation of that event
to see what would have happened had he not gotten caught.
They built a life-size mockuup of the room under which
the gunpowder kegs were stashed and filled the room
with dummys. The blast was spectacular. They eventually
found the head of the dummy representing king James a
couple miles away. Or maybe it was kilometers. Either way,
the conclusion was it was very lucky to have worked out
the way it did.

>
> JM



From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Wed Aug 19 02:07:13 2009
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (greg)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 18:07:13 +1200
Subject: Changing Python Opcodes
In-Reply-To: <1e3f4885-f908-4a45-8f7a-1a45e9d91b27@n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: <1e3f4885-f908-4a45-8f7a-1a45e9d91b27@n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7f1j3gF2hsc2hU1@mid.individual.net>

Sreejith K wrote:

> I know this is not the best way to do it. But I have to do it at least
> to make it *hard* to decompile the python bytecode.
> So I compiled Python from source changing some opcode values

It probably wouldn't be all that hard for someone to
figure this out. A possible avenue of attack would be
to use your python to compile a known piece of code
that exercises all the opcodes, and compare the result
with that from a standard python.

-- 
Greg


From sakib.iqbal at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 02:08:49 2009
From: sakib.iqbal at gmail.com (Sakib)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 23:08:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: can't retrieve data from pyxml
Message-ID: <64baa6b4-2cd7-451e-a749-9fdca8c62d2c@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

well, i need to retrive data from the following line of xml.

     

i need the Caption and the type data.

is any one out there help me doing that?

thanks,
Sakib


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Wed Aug 19 02:11:43 2009
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (greg)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 18:11:43 +1200
Subject: define class over 2 files
In-Reply-To: <6a490ec8-3536-4508-afd4-90a5cf9317b5@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <7de550a5-64af-4f40-a7fc-e3c449d0dce9@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6a490ec8-3536-4508-afd4-90a5cf9317b5@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7f1jbuF2ifjr1U1@mid.individual.net>

naveen wrote:
>>>Is it possible to split up a class definition over multiple files?
>>
>>Not exactly, but you can do variations of this:
> 
> ... [subclass a class]

Multiple inheritance can also be useful:

# A_Part1.py

class A_Part1:
   ...

# A_Part2.py

class A_Part2:
   ...

# A.py

from A_Part1 import A_Part1
from A_Part2 import A_Part2

class A(A_Part1, A_Part2):
   ...

-- 
Greg


From danb_83 at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 19 02:17:55 2009
From: danb_83 at yahoo.com (AggieDan04)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 23:17:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Read C++ enum in python
References: <4a8b3342$0$25403$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 18, 6:03?pm, Ludo
 wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I work in a very large project where we have C++ packages and pieces of
> python code.
>
> I've been googleing for days but what I find seems really too
> complicated for what I want to do.
>
> My business is, in python, to read enum definitions provided by the
> header file of an c++ package.
> Of course I could open the .h file, read the enum and transcode it by
> hand into a .py file but the package is regularly updated and thus is
> the enum.
>
> My question is then simple : do we have :
> ? ? ? ? - either a simple way in python to read the .h file, retrieve the c++
> enum and provide an access to it in my python script

Try something like this:



file_data = open(filename).read()
# Remove comments and preprocessor directives
file_data = ' '.join(line.split('//')[0].split('#')[0] for line in
file_data.splitlines())
file_data = ' '.join(re.split(r'\/\*.*\*\/', file_data))
# Look for enums: In the first { } block after the keyword "enum"
enums = [text.split('{')[1].split('}')[0] for text in re.split(r'\benum
\b', file_data)[1:]]

for enum in enums:
    last_value = -1
    for enum_name in enum.split(','):
        if '=' in enum_name:
            enum_name, enum_value = enum_name.split('=')
            enum_value = int(enum_value, 0)
        else:
            enum_value = last_value + 1
        last_value = enum_value
        enum_name = enum_name.strip()
        print '%s = %d' % (enum_name, enum_value)
    print



From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Wed Aug 19 02:42:59 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 08:42:59 +0200
Subject: Parallelization in Python 2.6
In-Reply-To: 
References: <9d9e7278-d855-4066-b090-46d5060dc051@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>	<17baaedc-2eeb-4ede-b416-afed3c2b0fc8@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>	<54899d05-8e9b-4b91-b79d-9839cddfe2d7@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4a8b9ef4$0$31865$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:45:38 -0700 (PDT), Robert Dailey wrote:
>> Really, all I'm trying to do is the most trivial type of
>> parallelization. Take two functions, execute them in parallel. This
>> type of parallelization is called "embarrassingly parallel", and is
>> the simplest form. There are no dependencies between the two
>> functions. They do requires read-only access to shared data, though.
>> And if they are being spawned as sub-processes this could cause
>> problems, unless the multiprocess module creates pipelines or other
>> means to handle this situation.

It wouldn't be much worth if it didn't, as the subprocess module handles
everything else nicely. See the Queue classes.


> 	If they are number crunchers (CPU-bound) and don't make use of
> binary extension libraries that release the GIL (for the most common
> Python implementation), they'll run faster being called in sequence
> since you won't have the overhead of task switching.

... unless, obviously, the hardware is somewhat up to date (which is not
that uncommon for number crunching environments) and can execute more than
one thing at once.

Stefan


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Aug 19 02:56:11 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 08:56:11 +0200
Subject: recording input from USB port and write to text file
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7f1m0bF2iv0uuU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Allan schrieb:
> Hi! I'm fairly new to Python.  I understand the basics basics but I'm
> been trying to write a simple python code that will let me read input
> data (such as mouse movement) from my USB port and write it in a text
> file and I am so lost.  Can anyone help or direct me to some
> resources?  Thank you!

This isn't as easy as you think. And dependend on your operating-system.

Diez


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Aug 19 03:01:45 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 09:01:45 +0200
Subject: can't retrieve data from pyxml
In-Reply-To: <64baa6b4-2cd7-451e-a749-9fdca8c62d2c@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <64baa6b4-2cd7-451e-a749-9fdca8c62d2c@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7f1mapF2iv0uuU2@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Sakib schrieb:
> well, i need to retrive data from the following line of xml.
> 
>       msdata:Caption="Microtia" type="xs:string" minOccurs="0" />
> 
> i need the Caption and the type data.
> 
> is any one out there help me doing that?

That's not XML. It lacks namespace-declarations. So no XML-parser will 
(or should) grok it.

Also, to get help here it's better to show what you already tried, 
instead of simply asking others to do your work for you.

Diez


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Wed Aug 19 03:03:49 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 09:03:49 +0200
Subject: Diversity in Python
In-Reply-To: <8763cliez7.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: 
	
	<8763cliez7.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <200908190903.49977.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Tuesday 18 August 2009 12:38:36 Ben Finney wrote:
> Hendrik van Rooyen  writes:
> > On Tuesday 18 August 2009 06:45:39 Aahz wrote:
> > > Mainly an opportunity to flog the new diversity list.
> >
> > Here my English fails me - flog as in "whip", or flog as in "sell"?
>
> Yes :-)

Thank you that clears it up.

:-)

- Hendrik



From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Wed Aug 19 03:24:13 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 09:24:13 +0200
Subject: Inheriting dictionary
In-Reply-To: <95736695-29b5-4185-8764-8eca140b76d2@e18g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
References: <95736695-29b5-4185-8764-8eca140b76d2@e18g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <200908190924.13792.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Tuesday 18 August 2009 21:44:55 Pavel Panchekha wrote:
> I want a dictionary that will transparently "inherit" from a parent
> dictionary. So, for example:
>
> """
> a = InheritDict({1: "one", 2: "two", 4: "four"})
> b = InheritDict({3: "three", 4: "foobar"}, inherit_from=a)
>
> a[1] # "one"
> a[4] # "four"
> b[1] # "one"
> b[3] # "three"
> b[4] # "foobar"
> """
>
> I've written something like this in Python already, but I'm wondering
> if something like this already exists, preferably written in C, for
> speed.

Its not inheritance, but have you looked at the update method?

-Hendrik


From metolone+gmane at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 03:28:15 2009
From: metolone+gmane at gmail.com (Mark Tolonen)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 00:28:15 -0700
Subject: Read C++ enum in python
References: <4a8b3342$0$25403$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	<4A8B3E2D.7040702@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: 


"MRAB"  wrote in message 
news:4A8B3E2D.7040702 at mrabarnett.plus.com...
> Ludo wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I work in a very large project where we have C++ packages and pieces of 
>> python code.
>>
>> I've been googleing for days but what I find seems really too complicated 
>> for what I want to do.
>>
>> My business is, in python, to read enum definitions provided by the 
>> header file of an c++ package.
>> Of course I could open the .h file, read the enum and transcode it by 
>> hand into a .py file but the package is regularly updated and thus is the 
>> enum.
>>
>> My question is then simple : do we have :
>>     - either a simple way in python to read the .h file, retrieve the c++ 
>> enum and provide an access to it in my python script
>>     - either a simple tool (in a long-term it would be automatically run 
>> when the c++ package is compiled) generating from the .h file a .py file 
>> containing the python definition of the enums ?
>>
>> Thank you for any suggestion.
>
> Speaking personally, I'd parse the .h file using a regular expression
> (re module) and generate a .py file. Compilers typically have a way of
> letting you run external scripts (eg batch files in Windows or, in this
> case, a Python script) when an application is compiled.

This is what 3rd party library pyparsing is great for:

--------begin code----------
from pyparsing import *

# sample string with enums and other stuff
sample = '''
    stuff before

    enum hello {
        Zero,
        One,
        Two,
        Three,
        Five=5,
        Six,
        Ten=10
    }

    in the middle

    enum blah
    {
        alpha,
        beta,
        gamma = 10 ,
        zeta = 50
    }

    at the end
    '''

# syntax we don't want to see in the final parse tree
_lcurl = Suppress('{')
_rcurl = Suppress('}')
_equal = Suppress('=')
_comma = Suppress(',')
_enum = Suppress('enum')

identifier = Word(alphas,alphanums+'_')
integer = Word(nums)

enumValue = Group(identifier('name') + Optional(_equal + integer('value')))
enumList = Group(enumValue + ZeroOrMore(_comma + enumValue))
enum = _enum + identifier('enum') + _lcurl + enumList('list') + _rcurl

# find instances of enums ignoring other syntax
for item,start,stop in enum.scanString(sample):
    id = 0
    for entry in item.list:
        if entry.value != '':
            id = int(entry.value)
        print '%s_%s = %d' % (item.enum.upper(),entry.name.upper(),id)
        id += 1
--------------end code------------

Output:
HELLO_ZERO = 0
HELLO_ONE = 1
HELLO_TWO = 2
HELLO_THREE = 3
HELLO_FIVE = 5
HELLO_SIX = 6
HELLO_TEN = 10
BLAH_ALPHA = 0
BLAH_BETA = 1
BLAH_GAMMA = 10
BLAH_ZETA = 50

-Mark




From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Wed Aug 19 03:31:18 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 09:31:18 +0200
Subject: Parallelization in Python 2.6
In-Reply-To: <54899d05-8e9b-4b91-b79d-9839cddfe2d7@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <9d9e7278-d855-4066-b090-46d5060dc051@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<17baaedc-2eeb-4ede-b416-afed3c2b0fc8@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<54899d05-8e9b-4b91-b79d-9839cddfe2d7@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <200908190931.18297.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Tuesday 18 August 2009 22:45:38 Robert Dailey wrote:

> Really, all I'm trying to do is the most trivial type of
> parallelization. Take two functions, execute them in parallel. This
> type of parallelization is called "embarrassingly parallel", and is
> the simplest form. There are no dependencies between the two
> functions. They do requires read-only access to shared data, though.
> And if they are being spawned as sub-processes this could cause
> problems, unless the multiprocess module creates pipelines or other
> means to handle this situation.

Just use thread then and thread.start_new_thread.
It just works.

- Hendrik


From gabriel.rossetti at arimaz.com  Wed Aug 19 03:34:52 2009
From: gabriel.rossetti at arimaz.com (Gabriel Rossetti)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 09:34:52 +0200
Subject: socket bug or not?
Message-ID: <4A8BAB1C.7090700@arimaz.com>

Hello everyone,

I found what was not working in my code (see Twisted mailing list topics 
"self.socket.accept() in doRead() in tcp.py has (11, 'Resource 
temporarily unavailable') error", "Twisted, PushProducer, Words & big 
msgs, any limit?" and Python mailing list topic "socket.send : (11, 
'Resource temporarily unavailable')"). I was just wondering if this was 
a bug or not, so here it is, I wrote aserver using twisted words' 
xmlstream class. When a client connects, it sends "" and the 
server also sends it, so a bi-directional xmlstream communication is 
established. This works fine, I at some point wrote a webservice to send 
msgs to my system, not using any twisted code, that sends a message to 
my server in this format : ".....". 
This worked fine as long as the messages were small, but if it send 
larger msgs (I tried +128k msgs) the server only received part of the 
msg and then the parser died because of this, so my msg appeared to be 
dropped. I discovered that it was because my webservice did not read the 
"" element sent by the server when it connected (since I was not 
interested in having a bidirectional xml stream communication with it), 
when I added the code to read it, everything worked as expected. I 
tested the webservice to without the server to see if it had a problem, 
using netcat, and it does, so I wonder if there is a bug in the socket 
code or not. Here is the test code :


###################### Listing 1 Start ######################
import socket, time
STREAM_START = ""
STREAM_END = ""

def sendTestMessage(host, port):
    msg = "" + ('a' * 175177) + ""
    burstSize = 4096
    sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
    sock.connect((host, port))
    sock.send(STREAM_START)
    time.sleep(5)
    while msg:
        sent = sock.send(msg[:burstSize])
        print "Sending %d bytes..." % sent
        if sent == 0:
            raise RuntimeError, "socket connection broken"
        msg = msg[burstSize:]
    sock.send(STREAM_END)
    sock.close()
###################### Listing 1 End ######################

To test it:

 1) open a python interpretor, copy-past the code above
 2) open another terminal and run netcat using the following command : 
nc -v -l -p 4444
 3) call the above function using : sendTestMessage("localhost", 4444), 
it will wait 5 seconds after having sent the , for the first 
test, just wait.

The message will be completely send and received by the netcat "server", 
now let's test the case I have, where the server sends a , to do 
that, repeat the above steps (you have to re-run netcat as it exits when 
the client disconnects), except in step 3 instead of just waiting, type 
 and press enter in the netcat terminal after having received 
the  element from the sending code. This time you will see that 
the message is incomplete.

If you send a smaller message, like by replacing the following line :

msg = "" + ('a' * 175177) + ""

with :

msg = "" + ('a' * (175177/4)) + ""

it works in both cases.

Now test the "fixed" code :

###################### Listing 2 Start ######################
import socket
STREAM_START = ""
STREAM_END = ""

def sendTestMessage(host, port):
    msg = "" + ('a' * 175177) + ""
    burstSize = 4096
    sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
    sock.connect((host, port))
    sock.send(STREAM_START)
    sock.recv(len(STREAM_START)+1)
    while msg:
        sent = sock.send(msg[:burstSize])
        print "Sending %d bytes..." % sent
        if sent == 0:
            raise RuntimeError, "socket connection broken"
        msg = msg[burstSize:]
    sock.send(STREAM_END)
    sock.close()
###################### Listing 2 End ######################

This time the code reads for the  element after sending the 
 element so it works, just try the steps described above, the 
ones where you have to type  and press enter in the netcat 
terminal and this time it works.

Is this a bug in the sockets code, or is this normal? If it's normal I 
think it should be mentioned somewhere. Oh, by the way, I use linux and 
this code was tested only on linux, I don't know if the problem also 
occurs on other platforms.

Gabriel


From digisatori at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 03:57:44 2009
From: digisatori at gmail.com (digisatori at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 00:57:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: expandtabs acts unexpectedly
Message-ID: <7e598693-c248-4304-bc46-ac79a8a3969b@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

Python 2.6.2 (release26-maint, Apr 19 2009, 01:56:41)
[GCC 4.3.3] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> ' test\ttest'.expandtabs(4)
' test   test'
>>> 'test \ttest'.expandtabs(4)
'test    test'

1st example: expect returning 4 spaces between 'test', 3 spaces
returned
2nd example: expect returning 5 spaces between 'test', 4 spaces
returned

Is it a bug or something, please advice.


From contact at xavierho.com  Wed Aug 19 04:10:49 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 18:10:49 +1000
Subject: expandtabs acts unexpectedly
In-Reply-To: <7e598693-c248-4304-bc46-ac79a8a3969b@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <7e598693-c248-4304-bc46-ac79a8a3969b@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908190110o57d6b345xc2010dd14f5d503a@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 5:57 PM, digisatori at gmail.com
wrote:

> Python 2.6.2 (release26-maint, Apr 19 2009, 01:56:41)
> [GCC 4.3.3] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>> ' test\ttest'.expandtabs(4)
> ' test   test'
> >>> 'test \ttest'.expandtabs(4)
> 'test    test'
>
> Is it a bug or something, please advice.
> --


 It is completely working as intended. What were you expecting instead?

Regards,
-Xav
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From nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 04:12:48 2009
From: nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 08:12:48 GMT
Subject: Read C++ enum in python
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4a8b3342$0$25403$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	
Message-ID: <4uOim.12753$ze1.6481@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

AggieDan04:

> file_data = open(filename).read()
> # Remove comments and preprocessor directives
> file_data = ' '.join(line.split('//')[0].split('#')[0] for line in
> file_data.splitlines())
> file_data = ' '.join(re.split(r'\/\*.*\*\/', file_data))

   For some headers I tried it didn't work until the .* was changed to a
non-greedy .*? to avoid removing from the start of the first comment to
the end of the last comment.

file_data = ' '.join(re.split(r'\/\*.*?\*\/', file_data))

   Neil


From http  Wed Aug 19 04:13:41 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 19 Aug 2009 01:13:41 -0700
Subject: Parallelization in Python 2.6
References: <9d9e7278-d855-4066-b090-46d5060dc051@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<17baaedc-2eeb-4ede-b416-afed3c2b0fc8@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<54899d05-8e9b-4b91-b79d-9839cddfe2d7@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <7xbpmcnruy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Hendrik van Rooyen  writes:
> Just use thread then and thread.start_new_thread.
> It just works.

The GIL doesn't apply to threads made like that?!


From peter at peter-b.co.uk  Wed Aug 19 04:16:35 2009
From: peter at peter-b.co.uk (Peter Brett)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 09:16:35 +0100
Subject: expandtabs acts unexpectedly
References: <7e598693-c248-4304-bc46-ac79a8a3969b@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

"digisatori at gmail.com"  writes:

> Python 2.6.2 (release26-maint, Apr 19 2009, 01:56:41)
> [GCC 4.3.3] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> ' test\ttest'.expandtabs(4)
> ' test   test'
>>>> 'test \ttest'.expandtabs(4)
> 'test    test'
>
> 1st example: expect returning 4 spaces between 'test', 3 spaces
> returned
> 2nd example: expect returning 5 spaces between 'test', 4 spaces
> returned
>
> Is it a bug or something, please advice.

Consider where the 4-space tabstops are relative to those strings:

 test   test
test    test
^   ^   ^

So no, it's not a bug.

If you just want to replace the tab characters by spaces, use:

  >>> " test\ttest".replace("\t", "    ")
  ' test    test'
  >>> "test \ttest".replace("\t", "    ")
  'test     test'

HTH,

                               Peter

-- 
Peter Brett 
Remote Sensing Research Group
Surrey Space Centre


From user at example.net  Wed Aug 19 04:40:28 2009
From: user at example.net (superpollo)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 10:40:28 +0200
Subject: reading a text file
Message-ID: <4a8bba7d$0$40004$4fafbaef@reader3.news.tin.it>

hi clp

what's the difference between:

while True:
     input_line = sys.stdin.readline()
         if input_line:
             sys.stdout.write(input_line.upper())
         else:
             break

and:


while True:
     try:
         sys.stdout.write(sys.stdin.next().upper())
     except StopIteration:
         break

???



From http  Wed Aug 19 04:46:16 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 19 Aug 2009 01:46:16 -0700
Subject: reading a text file
References: <4a8bba7d$0$40004$4fafbaef@reader3.news.tin.it>
Message-ID: <7xocqci42v.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

superpollo  writes:
> while True:
>      try:
>          sys.stdout.write(sys.stdin.next().upper())
>      except StopIteration:
>          break

Maybe there is some subtle difference, but it looks like you really mean

   for line in sys.stdin:
       sys.stdout.write(line.upper())


From pierre.gaillard at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 04:48:43 2009
From: pierre.gaillard at gmail.com (Pierre)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 01:48:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: difference between 2 arrays
Message-ID: 

Hello,

I would like to know how to find the difference (set operation)
between 2 arrays :

a = array([1,2, 3,2,5,2])
b = array([1,2])
I want a - b = [3,5]

Well, the equivalence of setdiff in matlab...

I thought a.difference(b) could work, but no : AttributeError:
'numpy.ndarray' object has no attribute 'difference'

Thanks !


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Aug 19 04:52:13 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 10:52:13 +0200
Subject: Code formatting question: conditional expression
References: 
	
Message-ID: <7f1sptF2gcfgnU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

> BTW, from the (admittedly few) responses to my original post, it seems
> there's some sentiment that "conditional expressions" are a non-Pythonic
> misfeature. Interesting ...

No. I love them. But not if they are so large that they stretch over several
lines (or to many columns).

 foo = bar if cond else baz

is more than fine for me. But

 foo = I_need_to_do_something_really_complicated_here() if cond else baz

isn't, because one doesn't grasp as easily in one look that we're talking a
ternary operator here.

Diez


From james.harris.1 at googlemail.com  Wed Aug 19 04:52:22 2009
From: james.harris.1 at googlemail.com (James Harris)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 01:52:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Identifying a class type - bad practice?
References: <5a6e91f5-83c1-42a3-ab8a-082c4d8e840c@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <520f55a6-38ac-432b-97e7-ec327740645a@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On 18 Aug, 21:50, Chris Rebert  wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 10:09 AM, James
>
> Harris wrote:
> > I am writing some code to form a tree of nodes of different types. The
> > idea is to define one class per node type such as
>
> > class node_type_1(node):
> > ?
> > class node_type_2(node):
> > ?
> > etc
>
> > (Class "node" would hold any common properties).
>
> > When walking the tree I need to know what type of node I'm dealing
> > with so polymorphism isn't generally useful. The action to be taken
> > depends on the node type.
>
> I'm sure it relates to the exact type of tree you're walking and the
> calculation you're doing on it, but what is the reason why your code,
> which in the abstract sounds like it will vaguely resemble this:
>
> def walk_tree(tree):
> ? ? if isinstance(tree, node_type_1):
> ? ? ? ? #code
> ? ? ? ? walk_tree(subtree)
> ? ? elif isinstance(tree, node_type_2):
> ? ? ? ? #code
> ? ? ? ? walk_tree(subtree)
> ? ? #etc...
>
> can't be written instead as:
>
> class node_type_1:
> ? ? def walk_tree(self):
> ? ? ? ? #code
> ? ? ? ? self.subtree.walk()
>
> class node_type_2:
> ? ? def walk_tree(self):
> ? ? ? ? #code
> ? ? ? ? self.subtree.walk()
>
> #etc

Interesting idea. This may be a better and a more OO solution than
what I had in mind. I'm not sure if I can use this but I'll see how it
fits in as the work progresses.

The tree is for a compiler. Initially the tree is for parsing of
source code. Then it will need to be processed and changed as further
compiler phases are written. I don't know yet whether it will be
easier to modify the tree or to create a new one for each phase.

So I guess whether I use the idea depends on the commonality of
operations.

James


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Aug 19 04:54:16 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 10:54:16 +0200
Subject: difference between 2 arrays
References: 
Message-ID: <7f1stoF2gcfgnU2@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Pierre wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I would like to know how to find the difference (set operation)
> between 2 arrays :
> 
> a = array([1,2, 3,2,5,2])
> b = array([1,2])
> I want a - b = [3,5]
> 
> Well, the equivalence of setdiff in matlab...
> 
> I thought a.difference(b) could work, but no : AttributeError:
> 'numpy.ndarray' object has no attribute 'difference'

Not sure if this works with numpy-arrays, but

set(a) - set(b)

might just work if the arrays are iterable.

Diez


From enleverLesX_XXmcX at XmclavXeauX.com  Wed Aug 19 04:56:20 2009
From: enleverLesX_XXmcX at XmclavXeauX.com (Michel Claveau - MVP)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 10:56:20 +0200
Subject: difference between 2 arrays
References: 
Message-ID: <4a8bbe36$0$12654$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr>

(envoy? via news:\\news.wanadoo.fr\comp.lang.python)

Hi!

See the module "sets"

@-salutations 
-- 
Michel Claveau 


From enleverLesX_XXmcX at XmclavXeauX.com  Wed Aug 19 04:58:53 2009
From: enleverLesX_XXmcX at XmclavXeauX.com (Michel Claveau - MVP)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 10:58:53 +0200
Subject: difference between 2 arrays
References: 
Message-ID: <4a8bbecf$0$12634$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr>

Re ! 

Juste pour signaler qu'il existe un newsgroup en fran?ais sur Python, qui permet de recevoir des r?ponses en fran?ais (donc plus compl?tes/d?taill?es).

@-salutations
-- 
Michel Claveau 



From h.jaeger at medienkonzepte.de  Wed Aug 19 05:00:52 2009
From: h.jaeger at medienkonzepte.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Horst_J=E4ger?=)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 11:00:52 +0200
Subject: How to create ones own lib
Message-ID: 

Hi,

I would like to create my own lib "hotte.py" which I can import like


	import string,hotte

. How do I do that?

I'm working on MacOS 10.5.6 .

Thanks in advance



From __peter__ at web.de  Wed Aug 19 05:08:06 2009
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 11:08:06 +0200
Subject: reading a text file
References: <4a8bba7d$0$40004$4fafbaef@reader3.news.tin.it>
Message-ID: 

superpollo wrote:

> hi clp
> 
> what's the difference between:
> 
> while True:
>      input_line = sys.stdin.readline()
>          if input_line:
>              sys.stdout.write(input_line.upper())
>          else:
>              break
> 
> and:
> 
> 
> while True:
>      try:
>          sys.stdout.write(sys.stdin.next().upper())
>      except StopIteration:
>          break

You should write the latter as

for line in sys.stdin:
    sys.stdout.write(line.upper())

or 

sys.stdout.writelines(line.upper() for line in sys.stdin)

You seem to know already that next() and readline() use different ways to 
signal "I'm done with the file". Also, after the first StopIteration 
subsequent next() calls are guaranteed to raise a StopIteration. But the 
main difference is that file.next() uses an internal buffer, file.readline() 
doesn't. That means you would lose data if you tried to replace the 
readline() call below with next()

first_line = f.readline()
read_of_the_file = f.read()

In newer Python versions you will get a ValueError when mixing next() and 
read()/readline() but in older Pythons (before 2.5 I think) you are in for a 
surprise.

As 

for line in file: ...

is both the fastest and most readable approach if you want to access a file 
one line at a time I recommend that you use it unless there is a specific 
reason not to.

Peter



From gforgx at lavabit.com  Wed Aug 19 05:18:37 2009
From: gforgx at lavabit.com (Sergey Simonenko)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 03:18:37 -0600
Subject: Subclass dynamically
In-Reply-To: <69df1b9a-fbc2-4a04-bc43-713eeee23e1a@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
References: <69df1b9a-fbc2-4a04-bc43-713eeee23e1a@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 11:12:30 -0600, Robert Dailey   
wrote:

How can you subclass a class from an object?..

> Hey,
>
> I have a class that I want to have a different base class depending on
> a parameter that I pass to its __init__method. For example
> (pseudocode):
>
> class MyDerived( self.base ):
>   def __init__( self, base ):
>     self.base = base
>
>
> Something like that... and then I would do this:
>
> foo = MyDerived( MyBase() )
>
> Note I'm using Python 3.1 on Windows. Thanks in advance.


-- 
Kind regards, Sergey Simonenko.



From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Wed Aug 19 05:18:59 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 11:18:59 +0200
Subject: Scope and classes
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <4a8bc383$0$1556$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

Chris Rebert a ?crit :
(snip)
> To access class-level variables from within instance methods of the
> class, you have 2 options:
> A. Use the class name, i.e. Abc.message
> B. Reference the class indirectly, i.e. self.__class__.message

Or even simpler - *if* there's no synonym instance attribute:

=> self.message

Attribute lookup will try to resolve the attribute name on the class 
(and it's parent classes) if it's not found on the instance.



From contact at xavierho.com  Wed Aug 19 05:28:50 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 19:28:50 +1000
Subject: How to create ones own lib
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908190228q72edb74fr43274d9f253cf014@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 7:00 PM, Horst J?ger wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I would like to create my own lib "hotte.py" which I can import like
>
>
>        import string,hotte
>
> . How do I do that?
>

1) Have the hotte.py in the same directory of any of your other Python code
that imports it, or
2) Put the hotte.py file in the Python import directive, whose location I do
not know in Mac.. someone else will know, I'm sure =]

All in all, I'm pretty sure you don't have to compile it or anything, but it
can be an option.

Cheers,
Xav
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From bieffe62 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 05:30:10 2009
From: bieffe62 at gmail.com (Francesco Bochicchio)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 02:30:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to create ones own lib
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 19 Ago, 11:00, Horst J?ger  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I would like to create my own lib "hotte.py" which I can import like
>
> ? ? ? ? import string,hotte
>
> . How do I do that?
>
> I'm working on MacOS 10.5.6 .
>
> Thanks in advance

Just create the file 'hotte.py' and place it somewhere python can find
it, that is:
- in the same directory of the code using it (which is most probablyt
what you want to do )
- in a directory listed in  sys.path variable (which you can extend
using sys.path.append("full_path_of_my_library_directory") before
doing import hotte

There are other options, but these should cover your needs.

Ciao
-----
FB



From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Wed Aug 19 05:31:55 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 11:31:55 +0200
Subject: Scope and classes
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: <4a8bc68b$0$4054$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

David a ?crit :
(snip)

> Out of 'Abc.message' and 'self.message', which is the favoured
> convention? It would be very easy to accidentally override
> 'self.messages' with an instance attribute!

Only use 'Abc.message' if you want to make sure you get the Abc class 
'message' attribute - that is, if you want to skip possible overrides in 
subclasses. As far as I'm concerned, I'd tend to consider this bad style 
  unless it's a very very specific implementation point of an abstract 
class (in which case it would probably be named '__message' to prevent 
accidental override) - but YMMV of course.

Use 'self.__class__.message' (or 'type(self).message') if you want to 
make sure you get the class 'message' attribute - that is, if you want 
to honor possible overrides in subclasses, but not per-instance 
override. But then - at least in your example code - I'd use a classmethod:

class Abc:
     message = 'Hello World'

     @classmethod
     def print_message(cls):
         print cls.message


Now the most common idiom - that is, outside classmethods - is to just 
use 'self.message'. Someone (even you) might have a very valid reason to 
  override the 'message' attribute on a per-instance basis. FWIW, if you 
start to worry about possible accidental overrides here, then Python 
might not be the right language for you - nothing prevents "accidental" 
overrides of method and even the class (the '__class__' attribute) 
itself - yes, they are all attributes, and you can dynamically override 
them !-)


From Bill at SynectixLtd.com  Wed Aug 19 05:34:11 2009
From: Bill at SynectixLtd.com (Bill Davy)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 10:34:11 +0100
Subject: Read C++ enum in python
References: <4a8b3342$0$25403$426a34cc@news.free.fr><4A8B3E2D.7040702@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	
Message-ID: <7f1v8eF2i0es3U1@mid.individual.net>

"Mark Tolonen"  wrote in message 
news:mailman.89.1250666942.2854.python-list at python.org...
>
> "MRAB"  wrote in message 
> news:4A8B3E2D.7040702 at mrabarnett.plus.com...
>> Ludo wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I work in a very large project where we have C++ packages and pieces of 
>>> python code.
>>>
>>> I've been googleing for days but what I find seems really too 
>>> complicated for what I want to do.
>>>
>>> My business is, in python, to read enum definitions provided by the 
>>> header file of an c++ package.
>>> Of course I could open the .h file, read the enum and transcode it by 
>>> hand into a .py file but the package is regularly updated and thus is 
>>> the enum.
>>>
>>> My question is then simple : do we have :
>>>     - either a simple way in python to read the .h file, retrieve the 
>>> c++ enum and provide an access to it in my python script
>>>     - either a simple tool (in a long-term it would be automatically run 
>>> when the c++ package is compiled) generating from the .h file a .py file 
>>> containing the python definition of the enums ?
>>>
>>> Thank you for any suggestion.
>>
>> Speaking personally, I'd parse the .h file using a regular expression
>> (re module) and generate a .py file. Compilers typically have a way of
>> letting you run external scripts (eg batch files in Windows or, in this
>> case, a Python script) when an application is compiled.
>
> This is what 3rd party library pyparsing is great for:
>
> --------begin code----------
> from pyparsing import *
>
> # sample string with enums and other stuff
> sample = '''
>    stuff before
>
>    enum hello {
>        Zero,
>        One,
>        Two,
>        Three,
>        Five=5,
>        Six,
>        Ten=10
>    }
>
>    in the middle
>
>    enum blah
>    {
>        alpha,
>        beta,
>        gamma = 10 ,
>        zeta = 50
>    }
>
>    at the end
>    '''
>
> # syntax we don't want to see in the final parse tree
> _lcurl = Suppress('{')
> _rcurl = Suppress('}')
> _equal = Suppress('=')
> _comma = Suppress(',')
> _enum = Suppress('enum')
>
> identifier = Word(alphas,alphanums+'_')
> integer = Word(nums)
>
> enumValue = Group(identifier('name') + Optional(_equal + 
> integer('value')))
> enumList = Group(enumValue + ZeroOrMore(_comma + enumValue))
> enum = _enum + identifier('enum') + _lcurl + enumList('list') + _rcurl
>
> # find instances of enums ignoring other syntax
> for item,start,stop in enum.scanString(sample):
>    id = 0
>    for entry in item.list:
>        if entry.value != '':
>            id = int(entry.value)
>        print '%s_%s = %d' % (item.enum.upper(),entry.name.upper(),id)
>        id += 1
> --------------end code------------
>
> Output:
> HELLO_ZERO = 0
> HELLO_ONE = 1
> HELLO_TWO = 2
> HELLO_THREE = 3
> HELLO_FIVE = 5
> HELLO_SIX = 6
> HELLO_TEN = 10
> BLAH_ALPHA = 0
> BLAH_BETA = 1
> BLAH_GAMMA = 10
> BLAH_ZETA = 50
>
> -Mark
>
>


Python and pythoneers are amazing! 




From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Wed Aug 19 05:39:07 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 11:39:07 +0200
Subject: Identifying a class type - bad practice?
In-Reply-To: <520f55a6-38ac-432b-97e7-ec327740645a@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
References: <5a6e91f5-83c1-42a3-ab8a-082c4d8e840c@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<520f55a6-38ac-432b-97e7-ec327740645a@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a8bc83b$0$24683$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

James Harris a ?crit :
> On 18 Aug, 21:50, Chris Rebert  wrote:
(snip)
>> class node_type_1:
>>     def walk_tree(self):
>>         #code
>>         self.subtree.walk()
>>
>> class node_type_2:
>>     def walk_tree(self):
>>         #code
>>         self.subtree.walk()
>>
>> #etc
> 
> Interesting idea.

Basic OO stuff, really. I'd say it's even the whole point of OO.

(snip)

> The tree is for a compiler. Initially the tree is for parsing of
> source code. Then it will need to be processed and changed as further
> compiler phases are written. I don't know yet whether it will be
> easier to modify the tree or to create a new one for each phase.
> 
> So I guess whether I use the idea depends on the commonality of
> operations.

You may want to have a look at the "composite" and "visitor" design 
patterns. AST are canonical use case for these patterns.


HTH



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Wed Aug 19 05:47:36 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 11:47:36 +0200
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>	<90cd2c33-5f2d-4a29-b267-67f233ae2946@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>	<4A8ADF6D.2030405@sequans.com>	
	
Message-ID: <4A8BCA38.5030308@sequans.com>

Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2009-08-18, Simon Forman  wrote:
>
>   
>> Sexism, racism, homophobia, religious intolerance, etc., all
>> stem from a fundamental forgetfulness of our Unity in God (as
>> I would put it) and this is perhaps the single greatest cause
>> of human misery.
>>     
>
> You mean the single greatest cause of human misery isn't
> Microsoft Windows?
>
>   
No, emacs is responsible ! Hail to Vi !

JM



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Wed Aug 19 06:05:29 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 12:05:29 +0200
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
In-Reply-To: <50f98a4c0908182043i8a619fdydb9311eadf7cef9@mail.gmail.com>
References: 	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>	<90cd2c33-5f2d-4a29-b267-67f233ae2946@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>	<4A8ADF6D.2030405@sequans.com>		<0014c4c0$0$2963$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<50f98a4c0908182043i8a619fdydb9311eadf7cef9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A8BCE69.6030508@sequans.com>

Simon Forman wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 8:03 PM, Steven
> D'Aprano wrote:
>   
>> On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:13:02 -0400, Simon Forman wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> Sexism, racism, homophobia, religious intolerance, etc., all stem from a
>>> fundamental forgetfulness of our Unity in God (as I would put it) and
>>>       
>> Of the tens of thousands of Gods that people have invented, which is the
>> one we're supposed to believe in? I always forget which ones we're
>> supposed to dismiss as nonsense, and which one we're not.
>>     
>
> Why the heck are you asking me?  (I'd say "/you/ are the God you
> should believe in.")
>   

Steven, a God... funny :o)

No the only God we should surely  worship is Guido, our BDFL :bow:. That 
is not questionable, and those who dare will be hung by the balls. (In 
order to be fairly cruel we should find an appropriate torture for our 
ladies, I don't want to be tagged as sexist).

JM
 


From nick at craig-wood.com  Wed Aug 19 06:29:53 2009
From: nick at craig-wood.com (Nick Craig-Wood)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 05:29:53 -0500
Subject: How to create ones own lib
References: 
Message-ID: 

Horst J?ger  wrote:
>  I would like to create my own lib "hotte.py" which I can import like
> 
>  	import string,hotte
> 
>  . How do I do that?

One of the nice things about python is that you don't need to do
anything special to define a library.

Just define your classes / functions in hotte.py

then use them like

  import hotte

  hotte.MyClass()
  hotte.my_function()

See here for the relevant bit of the tutorial

  http://docs.python.org/tutorial/modules.html

-- 
Nick Craig-Wood  -- http://www.craig-wood.com/nick


From digisatori at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 06:40:44 2009
From: digisatori at gmail.com (digisatori at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 03:40:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: expandtabs acts unexpectedly
References: <7e598693-c248-4304-bc46-ac79a8a3969b@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <12da5573-4cc0-47ca-837c-b2d75a786eb1@p10g2000prm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 19, 4:16?pm, Peter Brett  wrote:
> "digisat... at gmail.com"  writes:
> > Python 2.6.2 (release26-maint, Apr 19 2009, 01:56:41)
> > [GCC 4.3.3] on linux2
> > Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>>> ' test\ttest'.expandtabs(4)
> > ' test ? test'
> >>>> 'test \ttest'.expandtabs(4)
> > 'test ? ?test'
>
> > 1st example: expect returning 4 spaces between 'test', 3 spaces
> > returned
> > 2nd example: expect returning 5 spaces between 'test', 4 spaces
> > returned
>
> > Is it a bug or something, please advice.
>
> Consider where the 4-space tabstops are relative to those strings:
>
> ?test ? test
> test ? ?test
> ^ ? ^ ? ^
>
> So no, it's not a bug.
>
> If you just want to replace the tab characters by spaces, use:
>
> ? >>> " test\ttest".replace("\t", " ? ?")
> ? ' test ? ?test'
> ? >>> "test \ttest".replace("\t", " ? ?")
> ? 'test ? ? test'
>
> HTH,
>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Peter
>
> --
> Peter Brett 
> Remote Sensing Research Group
> Surrey Space Centre

You corrected me for the understanding of tab stop. Great explanation.
Thank you so much.


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Aug 19 06:48:13 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 19:48:13 +0900
Subject: How to create functors?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	
	
Message-ID: 

Robert Dailey wrote:

> I'm using Python 2.6. And using the legacy syntax in the lambda does
> not work either. I want to avoid using a def if possible. Thanks.

In Python, writing

name = lambda arg: expr

instead of

def name(arg): return expr

is all negative and no positive and should be avoided.

Your experience illustrates one reason why.

tjr



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Aug 19 06:52:14 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 19:52:14 +0900
Subject: Raw Strings with Variables
In-Reply-To: <0d176354-bb6c-4da5-b9b8-b444f6a946e6@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
References: <0d176354-bb6c-4da5-b9b8-b444f6a946e6@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

WilsonOfCanada wrote:
> Hellos,
> 
> I know that if you have:
> 
> happy = r"C:\moo"
> print happy
> 
> you get C:\moo instead of C:\\moo
> 
> The thing is that I want to do this a variable instead.
> 
> ex. testline = fileName.readline()
>       rawtestline = r testline

Python does not have 'raw strings'. It only has 'raw string literals', 
which is to say, string literals with 'r' prepended to signal less 
processing (cooking) of the literal in the process of turning it into a 
string object.

tjr



From sleepy at cabbage.co.uk  Wed Aug 19 07:06:41 2009
From: sleepy at cabbage.co.uk (Sleepy Cabbage)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 11:06:41 GMT
Subject: urlopen errors in script
References: 
	
	
	
	<3Gxim.148238$XK2.30441@newsfe15.ams2>
Message-ID: <51Rim.226342$e11.13364@newsfe14.ams2>

On Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:05:03 +0000, Sleepy Cabbage wrote:

> Thanks for the time you've spent anyway Peter. I have superkaramba
> installed and the rest of the script is running fine, it's only when I
> put the urlopen part in that it comes back with errors. The quotes are
> just to make it readable on here as my first attempt at posting muted
> the text.

This has been solved by upgrading to kde 4.3


From tino at wildenhain.de  Wed Aug 19 07:09:28 2009
From: tino at wildenhain.de (Tino Wildenhain)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 13:09:28 +0200
Subject: reading a text file
In-Reply-To: <4a8bba7d$0$40004$4fafbaef@reader3.news.tin.it>
References: <4a8bba7d$0$40004$4fafbaef@reader3.news.tin.it>
Message-ID: <4A8BDD68.4050108@wildenhain.de>

superpollo wrote:
> hi clp
> 
> what's the difference between:
> 
> while True:
>     input_line = sys.stdin.readline()
>         if input_line:
>             sys.stdout.write(input_line.upper())
>         else:
>             break
> 
> and:
> 
> 
> while True:
>     try:
>         sys.stdout.write(sys.stdin.next().upper())
>     except StopIteration:
>         break
> 

More useless code, under the hood its working similar.
But why not use it in the way intended?

for input_line in sys.stdin:
     sys.stdout.write(input_line.upper())

?

Regards
Tino
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From nuno.hespanhol at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 07:55:02 2009
From: nuno.hespanhol at gmail.com (Nuno Santos)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 12:55:02 +0100
Subject: Help with libxml2dom
Message-ID: <4A8BE816.9050901@gmail.com>

I have just started using libxml2dom to read html files and I have some 
questions I hope you guys can answer me.

The page I am working on (teste.htm):

  
    
      Title
    
  
  
    

      

        
            

        
        
           8/15/2009
        
      

    

  


 >>> import libxml2dom
 >>> foo = open('teste.htm', 'r')
 >>> str1 = foo.read()
 >>> doc = libxml2dom.parseString(str1, html=1)
 >>> html = doc.firstChild
 >>> html.nodeName
u'html'
 >>> head = html.firstChild
 >>> head.nodeName
u'head'
 >>> title = head.firstChild
 >>> title.nodeName
u'title'
 >>> body = head.nextSibling
 >>> body.nodeName
u'body'
 >>> table = body.firstChild
 >>> table.nodeName
u'text' #?! Why!? Shouldn't it be a table? (1)
 >>> table = body.firstChild.nextSibling #why this works? is there a 
text element hidden? (2)
 >>> table.nodeName
u'table'
 >>> tr = table.firstChild
 >>> tr.nodeName
u'tr'
 >>> td = tr.firstChild
 >>> td.nodeName
u'td'
 >>> font = td.firstChild
 >>> font.nodeName
u'text' # (1)
 >>> font = td.firstChild.nextSibling # (2)
 >>> font.nodeName
u'font'
 >>> a = font.firstChild
 >>> a.nodeName
u'text' #(1)
 >>> a = font.firstChild.nextSibling #(2)
 >>> a.nodeName
u'a'


It seems like sometimes there are some text elements 'hidden'. This is 
probably a standard in DOM I simply am not familiar with this and I 
would very much appreciate if anyone had the kindness to explain me this.

Thanks.


From kannan4k at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 08:09:16 2009
From: kannan4k at gmail.com (Kannan)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 17:39:16 +0530
Subject: About Python Symbian 60
Message-ID: 

Hi friends....
I want a Python SDK like Netbeans to work with the Symbian 60 python.
I don't have the Symbian 60 mobile.I create some Apps for S60 Platform.To
execute that i want this....
Help me..






With regards,

Kannan. R. P,
-------------- next part --------------
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From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Wed Aug 19 08:16:17 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 05:16:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Parallelization in Python 2.6
References: <9d9e7278-d855-4066-b090-46d5060dc051@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On 18 Aug, 11:19, Robert Dailey  wrote:

> I'm looking for a way to parallelize my python script without using
> typical threading primitives. For example, C++ has pthreads and TBB to
> break things into "tasks".

In C++, parallelization without "typical threading primitives" usually
means one of three things:

- OpenMP pragmas
- the posix function fork(), unless you are using Windows
- MPI

In Python, you find the function os.fork and wrappers for MPI, and
they are used as in C++. With os.fork, I like to use a context
manager, putting the calls to fork in __enter__ and the calls to
sys.exit in __exit__. Then I can just write code like this:

with parallel():
   # parallel block here

You can also program in the same style as OpenMP using closures. Just
wrap whatever loop or block you want to execute in parallel in a
closure. It requires minimal edition of the serial code. Instead of

def foobar():
   for i in iterable:
       #whatever

you can add a closure (internal function) and do this:

def foobar():
   def section(): # add a closure
       for i in sheduled(iterable): # balance load
           #whatever
   parallel(section) # spawn off threads

Programs written in C++ are much more difficult to parallelize with
threads because C++ do not have closures. This is why pragma-based
parallelization (OpenMP) was invented:

#pragma omp parallel for private(i)
for (i=0; i

Hi,

Is there any package to edit the existing excel cell data using python
or
to create excel charts using python....

please help.

Thanks,


From davea at ieee.org  Wed Aug 19 08:27:43 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 08:27:43 -0400
Subject: Parallelization in Python 2.6
In-Reply-To: <200908190931.18297.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
References: <9d9e7278-d855-4066-b090-46d5060dc051@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>	<17baaedc-2eeb-4ede-b416-afed3c2b0fc8@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>	<54899d05-8e9b-4b91-b79d-9839cddfe2d7@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<200908190931.18297.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
Message-ID: <4A8BEFBF.4010905@ieee.org>

Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:
> On Tuesday 18 August 2009 22:45:38 Robert Dailey wrote:
>
>   
>> Really, all I'm trying to do is the most trivial type of
>> parallelization. Take two functions, execute them in parallel. This
>> type of parallelization is called "embarrassingly parallel", and is
>> the simplest form. There are no dependencies between the two
>> functions. They do requires read-only access to shared data, though.
>> And if they are being spawned as sub-processes this could cause
>> problems, unless the multiprocess module creates pipelines or other
>> means to handle this situation.
>>     
>
> Just use thread then and thread.start_new_thread.
> It just works.
>
> - Hendrik
>
>   
But if you do it that way, it's slower than sequential.  And if you have 
a multi-core processor, or two processors, or ...   then it gets much 
slower yet, and slows down other tasks as well.

With the current GIL implementation, for two CPU-bound tasks, you either 
do them sequentially, or make a separate process.

Now, you can share data between separate processes, and if the data is 
truly going to be readonly, you shouldn't have any locking issues.

Naturally you should do your own timings.  Maybe your particular CPU and 
OS will have different results.

DaveA



From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Wed Aug 19 08:31:37 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 05:31:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Parallelization in Python 2.6
References: <9d9e7278-d855-4066-b090-46d5060dc051@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<17baaedc-2eeb-4ede-b416-afed3c2b0fc8@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com> 
	<54899d05-8e9b-4b91-b79d-9839cddfe2d7@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <250fb031-d955-45a7-8089-a3973f9af307@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On 18 Aug, 13:45, Robert Dailey  wrote:

> Really, all I'm trying to do is the most trivial type of
> parallelization. Take two functions, execute them in parallel. This
> type of parallelization is called "embarrassingly parallel", and is
> the simplest form. There are no dependencies between the two
> functions.

If you are using Linux or Mac, just call os.fork for this.

You should also know that you function "create_task" is simply

from threading import Thread
def create_task(task):
   Thread(target=task).start()

If your task releases the GIL, this will work fine.


> They do requires read-only access to shared data, though.
> And if they are being spawned as sub-processes this could cause
> problems, unless the multiprocess module creates pipelines or other
> means to handle this situation.

With forking or multiprocessing, you have to use IPC. That is, usually
pipes, unix sockets / named pipes, or shared memory. Multiprocessing
helps you with this. Multiprocessing also has a convinient Queue
object for serialised read/write access to a pipe.

You can also create shared memory with mmap.mmap, using fd 0 with
Windows or -1 with Linux.











From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Wed Aug 19 08:34:17 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 14:34:17 +0200
Subject: Parallelization in Python 2.6
In-Reply-To: <7xbpmcnruy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <9d9e7278-d855-4066-b090-46d5060dc051@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	
	<7xbpmcnruy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <200908191434.17399.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Wednesday 19 August 2009 10:13:41 Paul Rubin wrote:
> Hendrik van Rooyen  writes:
> > Just use thread then and thread.start_new_thread.
> > It just works.
>
> The GIL doesn't apply to threads made like that?!

The GIL does apply - I was talking nonsense again.  Misread the OP's 
intention.

- Hendrik



From tim.wintle at teamrubber.com  Wed Aug 19 08:36:40 2009
From: tim.wintle at teamrubber.com (Tim Wintle)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 13:36:40 +0100
Subject: Excel edit using python
In-Reply-To: <405ea65b-434b-4b93-914f-c0ddbf92077f@2g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
References: <405ea65b-434b-4b93-914f-c0ddbf92077f@2g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1250685400.4676.8.camel@tim-laptop>

On Wed, 2009-08-19 at 05:25 -0700, suman wrote:
> 
> Is there any package to edit the existing excel cell data using python
> or
> to create excel charts using python....

Chris, Chris, where are you?

http://www.python-excel.org/

Site provided by Chris Withers:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2009-June/716845.html


Tim Wintle



From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Wed Aug 19 08:39:15 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 05:39:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Parallelization in Python 2.6
References: <9d9e7278-d855-4066-b090-46d5060dc051@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<17baaedc-2eeb-4ede-b416-afed3c2b0fc8@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com> 
	<54899d05-8e9b-4b91-b79d-9839cddfe2d7@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<200908190931.18297.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
	
Message-ID: 

On 19 Aug, 05:27, Dave Angel  wrote:

> But if you do it that way, it's slower than sequential. ?And if you have
> a multi-core processor, or two processors, or ... ? then it gets much
> slower yet, and slows down other tasks as well.
>
> With the current GIL implementation, for two CPU-bound tasks, you either
> do them sequentially, or make a separate process.

For CPU bound tasks, one should put the bottleneck in C/Fortran/Cython
and release the GIL. There is a speed penalty of 200x from using
Python instead of C. With a quadcore processor you can gain less than
4x speed-up by parallelizing. If you really care enough about speed to
write parallel code, the first thing you should do is migrate the
bottleneck to C.










From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Wed Aug 19 08:40:59 2009
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 13:40:59 +0100
Subject: Parallelization in Python 2.6
In-Reply-To: 
References: <9d9e7278-d855-4066-b090-46d5060dc051@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

sturlamolden wrote:

> The human brain is bad at detecting
> computational bottlenecks though. So it almost always pays off to
> write everything in Python first, and use the profiler to locate the
> worst offenders.

+1 QOTW

-- 
MPH
http://blog.dcuktec.com
'If consumed, best digested with added seasoning to own preference.'


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Aug 19 08:45:13 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 14:45:13 +0200
Subject: Help with libxml2dom
References: 
Message-ID: <7f2aepF2i8bttU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Nuno Santos wrote:

> I have just started using libxml2dom to read html files and I have some
> questions I hope you guys can answer me.
> 
> The page I am working on (teste.htm):
> 
>   
>     
>       Title
>     
>   
>   
>     
>       
>         
>         
>       
>     

>            
> 
>         
>            8/15/2009
>         

>   
> 
> 
>  >>> import libxml2dom
>  >>> foo = open('teste.htm', 'r')
>  >>> str1 = foo.read()
>  >>> doc = libxml2dom.parseString(str1, html=1)
>  >>> html = doc.firstChild
>  >>> html.nodeName
> u'html'
>  >>> head = html.firstChild
>  >>> head.nodeName
> u'head'
>  >>> title = head.firstChild
>  >>> title.nodeName
> u'title'
>  >>> body = head.nextSibling
>  >>> body.nodeName
> u'body'
>  >>> table = body.firstChild
>  >>> table.nodeName
> u'text' #?! Why!? Shouldn't it be a table? (1)
>  >>> table = body.firstChild.nextSibling #why this works? is there a
> text element hidden? (2)
>  >>> table.nodeName
> u'table'
>  >>> tr = table.firstChild
>  >>> tr.nodeName
> u'tr'
>  >>> td = tr.firstChild
>  >>> td.nodeName
> u'td'
>  >>> font = td.firstChild
>  >>> font.nodeName
> u'text' # (1)
>  >>> font = td.firstChild.nextSibling # (2)
>  >>> font.nodeName
> u'font'
>  >>> a = font.firstChild
>  >>> a.nodeName
> u'text' #(1)
>  >>> a = font.firstChild.nextSibling #(2)
>  >>> a.nodeName
> u'a'
> 
> 
> It seems like sometimes there are some text elements 'hidden'. This is
> probably a standard in DOM I simply am not familiar with this and I
> would very much appreciate if anyone had the kindness to explain me this.

Without a schema or something similar, a parser can't tell if whitespace is
significant or not. So if you have 


  


you will have not 2, but 4 nodes - root, text containing a newline + 2
spaces, child, and again a text with a newline.

You have to skip over those that you are not interested in, or use a
different XML-library such as ElementTree (e.g. in the form of lxml) that
has a different approach about text-nodes.

Diez


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Wed Aug 19 08:51:48 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 14:51:48 +0200
Subject: recording input from USB port and write to text file
References: 
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Allan  (A) wrote:

>A> Hi! I'm fairly new to Python.  I understand the basics basics but I'm
>A> been trying to write a simple python code that will let me read input
>A> data (such as mouse movement) from my USB port and write it in a text
>A> file and I am so lost.  Can anyone help or direct me to some
>A> resources?  Thank you!

You could try http://sourceforge.net/projects/pyusb/
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Wed Aug 19 08:56:21 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 05:56:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Parallelization in Python 2.6
References: <9d9e7278-d855-4066-b090-46d5060dc051@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4575acc6-6045-4b5e-9a60-6dbde6b6d5db@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On 19 Aug, 05:16, sturlamolden  wrote:

> You should know about the GIL. It prevents multiple threads form using
> the Python interpreter simultaneously. For parallel computing, this is
> a blessing and a curse. Only C extensions can release the GIL; this
> includes I/0 routines in Python's standard library. If the GIL is not
> released, the C library call are guaranteed to be thread-safe.
> However, the Python interpreter will be blocked while waiting for the
> library call to return. If the GIL is released, parallelization works
> as expected; you can also utilise multi-core CPUs (it is a common
> misbelief that Python cannot do this).


Since I am at it, this is how the GIL can be released:

- Many functions in Python's standard library, particularly all
blocking i/o functions, release the GIL.

- In C or C++ extensions, use the macros Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS and
Py_END_ALLOW_THREADS.

- With ctypes, functions called from a cdll release the GIL, whereas
functions called from a pydll do not.

- In f2py, declaring a Fortran function threadsafe in a .pyf file or
cf2py comment releases the GIL.

- In Cython or Pyrex, use a "with nogil:" block to execute code
without holding the GIL.


Regards,
Sturla Molden



























From piet at cs.uu.nl  Wed Aug 19 08:59:43 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 14:59:43 +0200
Subject: Subclass dynamically
References: <69df1b9a-fbc2-4a04-bc43-713eeee23e1a@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Robert Dailey  (RD) wrote:

>RD> Hey,
>RD> I have a class that I want to have a different base class depending on
>RD> a parameter that I pass to its __init__method. For example
>RD> (pseudocode):

>RD> class MyDerived( self.base ):
>RD>   def __init__( self, base ):
>RD>     self.base = base


>RD> Something like that... and then I would do this:

>RD> foo = MyDerived( MyBase() )

What do you want? As you write it now foo would be an instance of
MyDerived, but you say you want to have a class with a different base
class...

So does this mean that foo should become that class or that foo should
become an instance of a new anonymous class that has a specified base
class?

And on the other hand is MyBase the required base class. But you pass an
instance of MyBase, not MyBase itself. As you have it above MyBase()
should be a class, therefore MyBase should be a metaclass. Or is that
not what you want?
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Aug 19 09:12:55 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 15:12:55 +0200
Subject: recording input from USB port and write to text file
References: 
	
Message-ID: <7f2c2nF2i8qovU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Piet van Oostrum wrote:

>>>>>> Allan  (A) wrote:
> 
>>A> Hi! I'm fairly new to Python.  I understand the basics basics but I'm
>>A> been trying to write a simple python code that will let me read input
>>A> data (such as mouse movement) from my USB port and write it in a text
>>A> file and I am so lost.  Can anyone help or direct me to some
>>A> resources?  Thank you!
> 
> You could try http://sourceforge.net/projects/pyusb/

As I said - this is more complicated as it appears. HID-devices will be
captured by the OS and can't be accessed by libusb then (with good reason -
otherwise writing a keylogger is something not even kernel-space is needed
anymore)

Diez


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Wed Aug 19 09:14:01 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 06:14:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Parallelization in Python 2.6
References: <9d9e7278-d855-4066-b090-46d5060dc051@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<17baaedc-2eeb-4ede-b416-afed3c2b0fc8@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com> 
	<54899d05-8e9b-4b91-b79d-9839cddfe2d7@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<200908190931.18297.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
	
Message-ID: 

On 19 Aug, 05:27, Dave Angel  wrote:

> With the current GIL implementation, for two CPU-bound tasks, you either
> do them sequentially, or make a separate process.

I'd also like to add that most compute-bound code should be delegated
to specialized C libraries, many of which are prewritten. For example,
FFTW, Intel MKL, ATLAS, LAPACK, NAG. When you do this, the GIL has no
consequence unless it is kept locked. So even for scientific programs,
writing parallel compute-bound code mostly involves calling into a C
or Fortran library with the GIL released. I have yet to see compute-
bound code that could not be easily migrated to C or Fortran, either
using existing libraries (the common case) or specialised code.


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Wed Aug 19 09:18:16 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 06:18:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Parallelization in Python 2.6
References: <9d9e7278-d855-4066-b090-46d5060dc051@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	
	<7xbpmcnruy.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> 
	
Message-ID: 

On 19 Aug, 05:34, Hendrik van Rooyen  wrote:

> The GIL does apply - I was talking nonsense again. ?Misread the OP's
> intention.

It depends on what the OP's functions "doStuff1" and "doStuff2"
actually do. If they release the GIL (e.g. make I/O calls) it does not
apply. The GIL only serialize access to the interpreter.



From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Wed Aug 19 09:31:20 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 06:31:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Parallelization in Python 2.6
References: <9d9e7278-d855-4066-b090-46d5060dc051@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<4a8af5ce$0$30224$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <9d96a617-75b2-413f-bb8a-81d51e42197c@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On 18 Aug, 11:41, Stefan Behnel  wrote:

> I think the canonical answer is to use the threading module or (preferably)
> the multiprocessing module, which is new in Py2.6.
>
> http://docs.python.org/library/threading.htmlhttp://docs.python.org/library/multiprocessing.html
>
> Both share a (mostly) common interface and are simple enough to use. They
> are pretty close to the above interface already.

There is a big difference between them, which is that multiprocessing
do not work with closures. This means that the threading module is
simpler to use than multiprocessing if you want to parallelize serial
code. You just wrap a closure around whatever block of code you want
to run in a thread. For the same reason, programming with OpenMP is
easier than using pthreads directly in C/C++. C does not have
closures, which is the raison d'etre for OpenMP. Multiprocessing has
the same limitation as abstraction for parallel programming as
pthreads in C. Python's threading module do not, but the GIL can be a
limitation.








From ndbecker2 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 09:41:58 2009
From: ndbecker2 at gmail.com (Neal Becker)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 09:41:58 -0400
Subject: Parallelization in Python 2.6
References: <9d9e7278-d855-4066-b090-46d5060dc051@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<4a8af5ce$0$30224$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net>
	<9d96a617-75b2-413f-bb8a-81d51e42197c@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

sturlamolden wrote:

> On 18 Aug, 11:41, Stefan Behnel  wrote:
> 
>> I think the canonical answer is to use the threading module or
>> (preferably) the multiprocessing module, which is new in Py2.6.
>>
>> 
http://docs.python.org/library/threading.htmlhttp://docs.python.org/library/multiprocessing.html
>>
>> Both share a (mostly) common interface and are simple enough to use. They
>> are pretty close to the above interface already.
> 
> There is a big difference between them, which is that multiprocessing
> do not work with closures. This means that the threading module is
> simpler to use than multiprocessing if you want to parallelize serial
> code. You just wrap a closure around whatever block of code you want
> to run in a thread.

Do you have an example of this technique?




From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Wed Aug 19 09:43:38 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 15:43:38 +0200
Subject: Subclass dynamically
In-Reply-To: <69df1b9a-fbc2-4a04-bc43-713eeee23e1a@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
References: <69df1b9a-fbc2-4a04-bc43-713eeee23e1a@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a8c0189$0$9983$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

Robert Dailey a ?crit :
> Hey,
> 
> I have a class that I want to have a different base class depending on
> a parameter that I pass to its __init__method. For example
> (pseudocode):
> 
> class MyDerived( self.base ):
>   def __init__( self, base ):
>     self.base = base
> 
> 
> Something like that... and then I would do this:
> 
> foo = MyDerived( MyBase() )


What is your real use case ? I mean, what problem are you actually 
trying to solve this way ?



From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Wed Aug 19 09:48:48 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 15:48:48 +0200
Subject: Code formatting question: conditional expression
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <4a8c02bf$0$716$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Richard Brodie a ?crit :
> "John Posner"  wrote in message 
> news:mailman.26.1250604346.2854.python-list at python.org...
> 
>>  if total > P.BASE:
>>      excessblk = Block(total - P.BASE, srccol, carry_button_suppress=True)
>>  else:
>>      excessblk = None
> 
> I wonder if it is appropriate to replace the None sentinel with one that is an instance
> of Block() e.g.
> 
> size = total - P.BASE
> excessblk = Block(size, srccol, carry_button_suppress=True, empty_block=(size <= 0) )

In which case the last param is possibly redundant - the Block object 
knows its size, so it might be able to know by itself if it's empty.

NB : please notice the 'possibly' and 'might' cautions !-)


From mczwhiners at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 19 09:50:44 2009
From: mczwhiners at yahoo.com (Smeagol)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 06:50:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: NOOB: Developing using python on two different computers
Message-ID: <610dc365-476f-4c5d-a307-b7b4141244ba@q40g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

Hi there,

Occasionally I have to develop on two different computers, and I was
wondering if there was a way to copy the python "environment" from one
to the other?

Access to the data is trivial (networked database) but various
packages etc exist on one computer, and I want to ensure I have
everything package-wise on the other.

Both are "windows" machines (native windows box and a Macbook with
VMWare running XP)...

Is it as simple as copying the Python directory, or is there a script
I can run that will tell me what packages are installed on the native
windows box and then I can use easy_install to update the VM partition
on the Macbook?

Much obliged for any help.


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Wed Aug 19 09:56:08 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 15:56:08 +0200
Subject: How to create functors?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 		
	
Message-ID: <4a8c0478$0$2752$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Terry Reedy a ?crit :
> Robert Dailey wrote:
> 
>> I'm using Python 2.6. And using the legacy syntax in the lambda does
>> not work either. I want to avoid using a def if possible. Thanks.
> 
> In Python, writing
> 
> name = lambda arg: expr
> 
> instead of
> 
> def name(arg): return expr
> 
> is all negative and no positive and should be avoided.

Except that def is a statement, and as such can't be used as a named 
params when calling a function expecting a callback, ie:

vroom = some_dead('parrot', name=lambda arg: exp)

(notice the 'name = lambda arg: exp' ?-)

Ok, nitpicking. Me --->[]




From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Wed Aug 19 10:06:28 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 07:06:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: difference between 2 arrays
References: 
	<4a8bbe36$0$12654$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 19, 6:56?pm, "Michel Claveau -
MVP" wrote:

> See the module "sets"

See especially the notice at the front of the current sets doc which
says "deprecated since 2.6" and the comparison down the end which
explains why the built-in set() and frozenset() are better than the
sets module. Starting now to use the sets module is not a good idea
unless the OP is stuck on using Python 2.3 .


From paul at boddie.org.uk  Wed Aug 19 10:10:08 2009
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 07:10:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Help with libxml2dom
References: 
Message-ID: <55183f22-2687-4426-b38d-054743b9f150@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On 19 Aug, 13:55, Nuno Santos  wrote:
> I have just started using libxml2dom to read html files and I have some
> questions I hope you guys can answer me.

[...]

> ?>>> table = body.firstChild
> ?>>> table.nodeName
> u'text' #?! Why!? Shouldn't it be a table? (1)

You answer this yourself just below.

> ?>>> table = body.firstChild.nextSibling #why this works? is there a
> text element hidden? (2)
> ?>>> table.nodeName
> u'table'

Yes, in the DOM, the child nodes of elements include text nodes, and
even though one might regard the whitespace before the first child
element and that appearing after the last child element as
unimportant, the DOM keeps it around in case it really is important.

[...]

> It seems like sometimes there are some text elements 'hidden'. This is
> probably a standard in DOM I simply am not familiar with this and I
> would very much appreciate if anyone had the kindness to explain me this.

Well, the nodes are actually there: they're whitespace used to provide
the indentation in your example. I recommend using XPath to get actual
elements:

table = body.xpath("*")[0] # get child elements and then select the
first

Although people make a big "song and dance" about the DOM being a
nasty API, it's quite bearable if you use it together with XPath
queries.

Paul


From invalid at invalid  Wed Aug 19 10:14:11 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 09:14:11 -0500
Subject: Parallelization in Python 2.6
References: <9d9e7278-d855-4066-b090-46d5060dc051@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<17baaedc-2eeb-4ede-b416-afed3c2b0fc8@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<54899d05-8e9b-4b91-b79d-9839cddfe2d7@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<4a8b9ef4$0$31865$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-19, Stefan Behnel  wrote:
> Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

>> 	If they are number crunchers (CPU-bound) and don't make use of
>> binary extension libraries that release the GIL (for the most common
>> Python implementation), they'll run faster being called in sequence
>> since you won't have the overhead of task switching.
>
> ... unless, obviously, the hardware is somewhat up to date
> (which is not that uncommon for number crunching environments)
> and can execute more than one thing at once.

Even with multiple processors, it'll still be faster to call
them sequentially in a single thread than run them sequentially
in multiple threads with the GIL serializing them.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Gibble, Gobble, we
                                  at               ACCEPT YOU ...
                               visi.com            


From baaluaanand at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 10:20:05 2009
From: baaluaanand at gmail.com (baalu aanand)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 07:20:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: difference between 2 arrays
References: 
Message-ID: <9a598f0b-f694-4011-b567-1d089f4062e7@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 19, 1:48?pm, Pierre  wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I would like to know how to find the difference (set operation)
> between 2 arrays :
>
> a = array([1,2, 3,2,5,2])
> b = array([1,2])
> I want a - b = [3,5]
>
> Well, the equivalence of setdiff in matlab...
>
> I thought a.difference(b) could work, but no : AttributeError:
> 'numpy.ndarray' object has no attribute 'difference'
>
> Thanks !



Hi,

  Here I have given my logic, check whether it helps for you

a = [1,2, 3,2,5,2]
b = [1,2]
j = 0
dif = []
for i in range(len(a)) :
   if a[i] not in b:
     dif.append(a[i])
     j += 1

print dif[k]



Thanks
Baalu


From baaluaanand at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 10:25:55 2009
From: baaluaanand at gmail.com (baalu aanand)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 07:25:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: difference between 2 arrays
References: 
Message-ID: <1da8e2d5-7a43-4b8c-b447-07f4f8e2f249@z24g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 19, 1:48?pm, Pierre  wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I would like to know how to find the difference (set operation)
> between 2 arrays :
>
> a = array([1,2, 3,2,5,2])
> b = array([1,2])
> I want a - b = [3,5]
>
> Well, the equivalence of setdiff in matlab...
>
> I thought a.difference(b) could work, but no : AttributeError:
> 'numpy.ndarray' object has no attribute 'difference'
>
> Thanks !

Hi,

  Here I have given my logic, check whether it helps for you

a = [1,2, 3,2,5,2]
b = [1,2]
j = 0
dif = []
for i in range(len(a)) :
   if a[i] not in b:
     dif.append(a[i])
     j += 1

print dif

Thanks
Baalu


From mhuening at zedat.fu-berlin.de  Wed Aug 19 10:44:48 2009
From: mhuening at zedat.fu-berlin.de (Matthias Huening)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 16:44:48 +0200
Subject: difference between 2 arrays
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7f2heuF2hnhj3U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Pierre (19.08.2009 10:48):
> Hello,
> 
> I would like to know how to find the difference (set operation)
> between 2 arrays :
> 
> a = array([1,2, 3,2,5,2])
> b = array([1,2])
> I want a - b = [3,5]
> 

What about set()?

 >>> a = set([1,2, 3,2,5,2])
 >>> b = set([1,2])
 >>> a.difference(b)
set([3, 5])


Matthias


From jhnhndly at aol.com  Wed Aug 19 10:52:56 2009
From: jhnhndly at aol.com (La Vie Spirituelle)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 16:52:56 +0200
Subject: New message
Message-ID: 

Test
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

From drobinow at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 11:15:07 2009
From: drobinow at gmail.com (David Robinow)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 11:15:07 -0400
Subject: difference between 2 arrays
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4eb0089f0908190815h867d13ci23494b54d1e06947@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 4:48 AM, Pierre wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I would like to know how to find the difference (set operation)
> between 2 arrays :
>
> a = array([1,2, 3,2,5,2])
> b = array([1,2])
> I want a - b = [3,5]
>
> Well, the equivalence of setdiff in matlab...
>
> I thought a.difference(b) could work, but no : AttributeError:
> 'numpy.ndarray' object has no attribute 'difference'
>
> Thanks !
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

import numpy
a = numpy.array([1,2,3,2,5,2])
b = numpy.array([1,2])
c = list(set(a)-set(b))
# or c = numpy.array(list(set(a)-set(b)))   if you want to continue w/ arrays
print c


From olivier.anospamrnospamnnospamanospamenospamz at affaires.net  Wed Aug 19 11:37:56 2009
From: olivier.anospamrnospamnnospamanospamenospamz at affaires.net (Ludo)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 17:37:56 +0200
Subject: Read C++ enum in python
In-Reply-To: <4uOim.12753$ze1.6481@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
References: <4a8b3342$0$25403$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
	
	<4uOim.12753$ze1.6481@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <4a8c1c55$0$420$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Neil Hodgson a ?crit :
> 
>    For some headers I tried it didn't work until the .* was changed to a
> non-greedy .*? to avoid removing from the start of the first comment to
> the end of the last comment.
> 
> file_data = ' '.join(re.split(r'\/\*.*?\*\/', file_data))

Thank you ! I adopt it !

Cheers.


From gunterhenriksen at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 11:43:55 2009
From: gunterhenriksen at gmail.com (Gunter Henriksen)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 08:43:55 -0700
Subject: warnings.warn vs logging.warning
Message-ID: 

When I want to issue a warning, I am uncertain
about the distinction between warnings.warn() and
logging.warning().  My naive thought is to presume
"warning" means the same thing in both cases, and
so if I call logging.warning(), it should take
care of making sure something equivalent to my
calling warnings.warn() will happen... more than
just having a message go to wherever a message
to warnings.warn() would go.  If I want to utilize
the capabilities of both mechanisms (like having
an exception raised), should I call both functions?


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Aug 19 11:52:29 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 17:52:29 +0200
Subject: difference between 2 arrays
References: 
	<9a598f0b-f694-4011-b567-1d089f4062e7@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7f2ldtF2gd9ttU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

baalu aanand wrote:

> On Aug 19, 1:48?pm, Pierre  wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I would like to know how to find the difference (set operation)
>> between 2 arrays :
>>
>> a = array([1,2, 3,2,5,2])
>> b = array([1,2])
>> I want a - b = [3,5]
>>
>> Well, the equivalence of setdiff in matlab...
>>
>> I thought a.difference(b) could work, but no : AttributeError:
>> 'numpy.ndarray' object has no attribute 'difference'
>>
>> Thanks !
> 
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
>   Here I have given my logic, check whether it helps for you
> 
> a = [1,2, 3,2,5,2]
> b = [1,2]
> j = 0
> dif = []
> for i in range(len(a)) :
>    if a[i] not in b:
>      dif.append(a[i])
>      j += 1
> 
> print dif[k]


EEEK, quadratic behavior!!

Diez


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 12:17:16 2009
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 09:17:16 -0700
Subject: difference between 2 arrays
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-19 01:48 AM, Pierre wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I would like to know how to find the difference (set operation)
> between 2 arrays :
>
> a = array([1,2, 3,2,5,2])
> b = array([1,2])
> I want a - b = [3,5]
>
> Well, the equivalence of setdiff in matlab...

You will want to ask numpy questions on the numpy mailing list.

   http://www.scipy.org/Mailing_Lists

Using set() is frequently a good option, but for large arrays, you will want to 
avoid the overhead of converting to and from sets and use numpy.setdiff1d(a, b):

In [2]: a = array([1,2, 3,2,5,2])

In [3]: b = array([1,2])

In [4]: numpy.setdiff1d(a, b)
Out[4]: array([3, 5])

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From markscottwright at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 12:49:07 2009
From: markscottwright at gmail.com (markscottwright)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 09:49:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How do I convert an iterator over bytes into a str?
References: <3e3d2ebd-df8a-42a8-9420-0439a965a0d5@v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <2c212222-0dac-4bd3-8130-5bd302d12dd5@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 18, 6:52?pm, "Jan Kaliszewski"  wrote:
> 19-08-2009 o 00:24:20 markscottwright  wrote:
>
> > What's the correct way to turn an iterator over bytes into a string?
> > This works, but, ewww:
> > ? ? In [8]: "".join(iter("four score and seven years ago"))
> > ? ? Out[8]: 'four score and seven years ago'
>
> But it is the correct way (and even recommended over s=s+t or s+=t, when
> applicable
> -- see: ?http://docs.python.org/library/stdtypes.html#sequence-types-str-unico...).
>
> Cheers,
> *j
>
> --
> Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 

Thanks Jan (and all other responders).  I suppose I shouldn't be
surprised - it's a known wart (http://wiki.python.org/moin/
PythonWarts), but it just looks so darn wrong.  It is, as you point
out, much faster than "better looking" alternatives, though -
http://www.skymind.com/~ocrow/python_string/


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Aug 19 13:08:56 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 19 Aug 2009 10:08:56 -0700
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<1fa1663b-a1cb-42d4-890b-0617b73e8816@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<4A89CEA2.10400@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
Jean-Michel Pichavant   wrote:
>MRAB wrote:
>> Carl Banks wrote:
>>> On Aug 17, 10:03 am, Jean-Michel Pichavant 
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'm no English native, but I already heard women/men referring to a
>>>> group as "guys", no matter that group gender configuration. It's even
>>>> used for group composed exclusively of women. Moreover it looks like a
>>>> *very* friendly form, so there is really nothing to worry about it.
>>>
>>> I like how being very friendly means calling people after a guy who
>>> tried to blow up the English Parliament.
>>
>> Guy Fawkes adopted the name Guido while fighting for the Spanish in the
>> Low Countries:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes
>
>I didn't get Carl's reference. The only thing I know about blowing the 
>parliament is from the movie V for Vendetta (no comment please !).

You should read the original comic book, it's much more interesting (and
clearly mentions the Guy Fawkes connection).
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I saw `cout' being shifted "Hello world" times to the left and stopped
right there."  --Steve Gonedes


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Wed Aug 19 13:09:46 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 10:09:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: difference between 2 arrays
References: 
Message-ID: <7470d887-6c9c-4013-8dc5-ffa7ef344f3f@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

On 19 Aug, 01:48, Pierre  wrote:

> Well, the equivalence of setdiff in matlab...

That would be numpy.setdiff1d.


From sajmikins at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 13:35:59 2009
From: sajmikins at gmail.com (Simon Forman)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 10:35:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: recording input from USB port and write to text file
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 18, 7:33?pm, Allan  wrote:
> Hi! I'm fairly new to Python. ?I understand the basics basics but I'm
> been trying to write a simple python code that will let me read input
> data (such as mouse movement) from my USB port and write it in a text
> file and I am so lost. ?Can anyone help or direct me to some
> resources? ?Thank you!

This isn't exactly what you were looking for, but maybe it will give
you some ideas:


from Tkinter import *

def printMotionEvents(event):
    print "mouse coords: %i x %i" % (event.x, event.y)

t = Tk()
t.bind('', printMotionEvents)
t.mainloop()


This script creates a little Tkinter window and then makes it so that
when you move the mouse over the window the mouse coordinates are
printed to stdout.


From rui.vapps at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 13:44:56 2009
From: rui.vapps at gmail.com (Ray)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 10:44:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: generate keyboard/mouse event under windows
Message-ID: <96047669-1bfd-4dbe-bed8-fafea07bbc5a@z34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

Anyone can give some help on how to generate keyboard mouse event
under windows? (python 2.5)

I tried pyhook, I only know how to monitor the keyboard/mouse events.
but don't know how to generate/send the the event.

thanks for any help.

-Ray


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Aug 19 13:49:09 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 19 Aug 2009 10:49:09 -0700
Subject: Database query execution times in Python?
References: <24870050.post@talk.nabble.com> 
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
pwnedd   wrote:
>
>> Look up EXPLAIN
>
>Thanks for the suggestion. I don't see any option to have EXPLAIN display
>the query time though?

My suggestion was partly a gentle push toward a database forum to get
more information -- this isn't really a Python question.  Unless all you
want to do is get the wall-clock time, in which case just use
time.time().
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Given that C++ has pointers and typecasts, it's really hard to have a
serious conversation about type safety with a C++ programmer and keep a
straight face.  It's kind of like having a guy who juggles chainsaws
wearing body armor arguing with a guy who juggles rubber chickens wearing
a T-shirt about who's in more danger."  --Roy Smith


From sajmikins at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 13:51:08 2009
From: sajmikins at gmail.com (Simon Forman)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 10:51:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> 
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	<90cd2c33-5f2d-4a29-b267-67f233ae2946@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com> 
	<4A8ADF6D.2030405@sequans.com>
	 
	<87hbw4fxcq.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	 
	<87r5v8e9cu.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 19, 12:05?am, Ben Finney  wrote:
> Simon Forman  writes:
> > On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 8:42 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
> > > We're all unified by our humanity. Bringing any god into the picture
> > > is surely counter to any goals of unity.
>
> > Unity "in humanity" is, to my way of thinking, the same as Unity "in
> > God".
>
> Then you're playing Humpty-Dumpty games with words. You know very well
> that ?God? has established meanings entirely different from ?humanity?,
> and those meanings played a part in your choice of that word.
>
> I maintain that you can't consistently make a declaration in favour of
> human unity and unfounded religious assertions.
>
> > I think Unity, like None, is a built-in singleton, so to speak.
>
> This is white noise.
>
> > >> We are one family.
>
> > > Agreed.
>
> > <3
>
> I think we can peaceably leave it at that.

Hear hear!

(FWIW, I've always admired Humpty Dumpty's attitude to words.  Have
you ever read R.A. Wilson's "Quantum Psychology"?)

Regards,
~Simon


From gu.yakahughes at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 14:07:16 2009
From: gu.yakahughes at gmail.com (yaka)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 11:07:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: generate keyboard/mouse event under windows
References: <96047669-1bfd-4dbe-bed8-fafea07bbc5a@z34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Read this and see if it helps:

http://kvance.livejournal.com/985732.html


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Aug 19 14:20:22 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 19 Aug 2009 11:20:22 -0700
Subject: httplib incredibly slow :-(
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
Chris Withers   wrote:
>Aahz wrote:
>>
>> What do you need to know for a decent example?
>
>Simple download of a file from a url with some auth headers added would 
>do me.

Well, I've hacked up some sample code from my company's codebase:

# !!! UNTESTED !!!
c = pycurl.Curl()
c.setopt(pycurl.URL, url)
c.setopt(pycurl.USERPWD, "%s:%s" % (user, pwd))
c.setopt(pycurl.FOLLOWLOCATION, 1)
c.setopt(pycurl.MAXREDIRS, 5)
c.setopt(pycurl.CONNECTTIMEOUT, 30)
f = StringIO()
c.setopt(pycurl.WRITEDATA, f)
c.perform()
c.close()
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Given that C++ has pointers and typecasts, it's really hard to have a
serious conversation about type safety with a C++ programmer and keep a
straight face.  It's kind of like having a guy who juggles chainsaws
wearing body armor arguing with a guy who juggles rubber chickens wearing
a T-shirt about who's in more danger."  --Roy Smith


From rui.vapps at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 14:55:25 2009
From: rui.vapps at gmail.com (Ray)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 11:55:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: generate keyboard/mouse event under windows
References: <96047669-1bfd-4dbe-bed8-fafea07bbc5a@z34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <9f107280-5d5c-4e6e-b47b-779e8012fdbc@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 19, 2:07?pm, yaka  wrote:
> Read this and see if it helps:
>
> http://kvance.livejournal.com/985732.html

is there a way to generate a 'true' keyboard event? (works like user
pressed a key on keyboard)
not send the 'send keyboard event to application' ?


From jcn-france1972 at pobox.com  Wed Aug 19 15:01:25 2009
From: jcn-france1972 at pobox.com (Jean-Claude Neveu)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 12:01:25 -0700
Subject: Python and PHP encryption/decryption
Message-ID: 

I'm looking for a recommendation about encryption/decryption packages 
for Python.

I'm working on a project that will require me to store some values in 
a database in encrypted format. I'll be storing them from a PHP 
script and retrieving them (decrypting them) using Python. I'm 
currently using PHP's mcrypt package to encrypt the values, and I'm 
using AES for encryption, so something AES-compatible would be ideal. 
However, the project is at the development stage so I can easily 
change how I'm encrypting things in PHP if there is a compelling 
reason on the Python side of things to do so.

Many Thanks,
Jean-Claude



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Aug 19 15:43:00 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 19 Aug 2009 12:43:00 -0700
Subject: Any way to adjust difflib algorithm?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
Grant Edwards   wrote:
>On 2009-08-14, Grant Edwards  wrote:
>>
>> In my particular usage, no lines have ever been
>> inserted/deleted, so perhaps I should be running diffs on
>> individual lines instead?  If I do that, I can't figure out
>> how to generate HTML output.
>
>I ended up using the SequenceMatcher on individual pairs of
>lines and generating my own HTML based on the results of
>get_matching_blocks().
>
>That produced the desired results.

Good work!  Note that IME most diff software shows changed lines as a
delete-and-add.  For example, diff -u
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Given that C++ has pointers and typecasts, it's really hard to have a
serious conversation about type safety with a C++ programmer and keep a
straight face.  It's kind of like having a guy who juggles chainsaws
wearing body armor arguing with a guy who juggles rubber chickens wearing
a T-shirt about who's in more danger."  --Roy Smith


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Wed Aug 19 16:10:17 2009
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 13:10:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: NOOB: Developing using python on two different computers
References: <610dc365-476f-4c5d-a307-b7b4141244ba@q40g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <75f2e1e8-49c4-4564-9fab-b0a6b96adaa4@p36g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 19, 6:50?am, Smeagol  wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> Occasionally I have to develop on two different computers, and I was
> wondering if there was a way to copy the python "environment" from one
> to the other?
>
> Access to the data is trivial (networked database) but various
> packages etc exist on one computer, and I want to ensure I have
> everything package-wise on the other.
>
> Both are "windows" machines (native windows box and a Macbook with
> VMWare running XP)...
>
> Is it as simple as copying the Python directory, or is there a script
> I can run that will tell me what packages are installed on the native
> windows box and then I can use easy_install to update the VM partition
> on the Macbook?
>

Simple copy won't do it.

Check out virtualenv (http://pypi.python.org/pypi/virtualenv).
Reinstalling each env from scratch is usually the best bet. List your
dependencies in your packages and all you have to do is easy_install
your packages.


From invalid at invalid  Wed Aug 19 16:16:22 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 15:16:22 -0500
Subject: Any way to adjust difflib algorithm?
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-19, Aahz  wrote:
> In article ,
> Grant Edwards   wrote:
>>On 2009-08-14, Grant Edwards  wrote:
>>>
>>> In my particular usage, no lines have ever been
>>> inserted/deleted, so perhaps I should be running diffs on
>>> individual lines instead?  If I do that, I can't figure out
>>> how to generate HTML output.
>>
>>I ended up using the SequenceMatcher on individual pairs of
>>lines and generating my own HTML based on the results of
>>get_matching_blocks().
>>
>>That produced the desired results.
>
> Good work!  Note that IME most diff software shows changed
> lines as a delete-and-add.  For example, diff -u

Right -- though difflib did show _some_ lines as changed rather
than deleted/added, it wasn't obvious how it decided between
the two.  I suspect it used some sort of percentage-changed
threshold.

For this application both files had all the same lines (by
definition), so what I was interested in was what parts of each
line changed.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! I just heard the
                                  at               SEVENTIES were over!!  And
                               visi.com            I was just getting in touch
                                                   with my LEISURE SUIT!!


From politza at googlemail.com  Wed Aug 19 16:17:19 2009
From: politza at googlemail.com (A.Politz)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 13:17:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: python doc available in emacs info format?
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 17, 6:43?am, Xah Lee  wrote:
> btw, is there still [no] info format for python doc?
>
> i feel kinda sad [...]
> Part of this is due to [other peoples fault]

Someone started a rst2info project (google it), maybe you want to help
this guy out.

Though, he might be a techgeeker, so watch out !

-ap


From israelu at elbit.co.il  Wed Aug 19 16:31:17 2009
From: israelu at elbit.co.il (iu2)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 13:31:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Dictionary from a list
Message-ID: 

Hi all,

I need to create a dictionary out of a list.

Given the list [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]

I need the dictionary: {1:2, 3:4, 5:6}

I'll appreciate your help
Thanks
iu2


From jjposner at optimum.net  Wed Aug 19 16:36:20 2009
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 16:36:20 -0400
Subject: Code formatting question: conditional expression
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A8C6244.40706@optimum.net>

Diez wrote:
> No. I love them. But not if they are so large that they stretch over several
> lines (or to many columns).
>
>  foo = bar if cond else baz
>
> is more than fine for me. But
>
>  foo = I_need_to_do_something_really_complicated_here() if cond else baz
>
> isn't, because one doesn't grasp as easily in one look that we're talking a
> ternary operator here.
>   

But the right side of my brain (see Peter Keller's discussion in the 
recent "importance of syntax" thread) finds it quite easy to recognize 
this as a ternary op:
 
  foo = (I_need_to_do_something_really_complicated_here()
        if cond else
        baz)

The whitespace below "foo" provides a visual hint, which is confirmed by 
the nearby appearance of "if" on the second line. De gustibus non est 
disputandum! (or not)

Many thanks to all responders!

-John



From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Aug 19 16:39:47 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 22:39:47 +0200
Subject: Dictionary from a list
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7f368jF2it5a5U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

iu2 schrieb:
> Hi all,
> 
> I need to create a dictionary out of a list.
> 
> Given the list [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]
> 
> I need the dictionary: {1:2, 3:4, 5:6}

dict(zip(l[::2], l[1::2]))

Diez


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Aug 19 16:42:43 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 22:42:43 +0200
Subject: Python and PHP encryption/decryption
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7f36e3F2it5a5U2@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Jean-Claude Neveu schrieb:
> I'm looking for a recommendation about encryption/decryption packages 
> for Python.
> 
> I'm working on a project that will require me to store some values in a 
> database in encrypted format. I'll be storing them from a PHP script and 
> retrieving them (decrypting them) using Python. I'm currently using 
> PHP's mcrypt package to encrypt the values, and I'm using AES for 
> encryption, so something AES-compatible would be ideal. However, the 
> project is at the development stage so I can easily change how I'm 
> encrypting things in PHP if there is a compelling reason on the Python 
> side of things to do so.

With PyCrypto[1] you have a wide range of choices, amongst others AES.

If that's the best algorithm, or even the best python-package to 
implement it, I don't know.


[1] http://www.dlitz.net/software/pycrypto/


Diez


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Aug 19 16:46:43 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 22:46:43 +0200
Subject: recording input from USB port and write to text file
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <7f36ljF2hd2f3U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Simon Forman schrieb:
> On Aug 18, 7:33 pm, Allan  wrote:
>> Hi! I'm fairly new to Python.  I understand the basics basics but I'm
>> been trying to write a simple python code that will let me read input
>> data (such as mouse movement) from my USB port and write it in a text
>> file and I am so lost.  Can anyone help or direct me to some
>> resources?  Thank you!
> 
> This isn't exactly what you were looking for, but maybe it will give
> you some ideas:
> 
> 
> from Tkinter import *
> 
> def printMotionEvents(event):
>     print "mouse coords: %i x %i" % (event.x, event.y)
> 
> t = Tk()
> t.bind('', printMotionEvents)
> t.mainloop()
> 
> 
> This script creates a little Tkinter window and then makes it so that
> when you move the mouse over the window the mouse coordinates are
> printed to stdout.

If it has focus.

The overall problem is hard - see e.g. this:

http://www.wintellect.com/CS/blogs/jrobbins/archive/2008/08/30/so-you-want-to-set-a-windows-journal-recording-hook-on-vista-it-s-not-nearly-as-easy-as-you-think.aspx

Diez


From israelu at elbit.co.il  Wed Aug 19 16:52:54 2009
From: israelu at elbit.co.il (iu2)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 13:52:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Dictionary from a list
References: 
	<7f368jF2it5a5U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 19, 11:39?pm, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
> iu2 schrieb:
>
> > Hi all,
>
> > I need to create a dictionary out of a list.
>
> > Given the list [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]
>
> > I need the dictionary: {1:2, 3:4, 5:6}
>
> dict(zip(l[::2], l[1::2]))
>
> Diez

Wow, this is cool!

thanks
iu2


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Aug 19 17:16:32 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 23:16:32 +0200
Subject: recording input from USB port and write to text file
In-Reply-To: <7f36ljF2hd2f3U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: 
	
	<7f36ljF2hd2f3U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <7f38dgF2i8dt7U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Diez B. Roggisch schrieb:
> Simon Forman schrieb:
>> On Aug 18, 7:33 pm, Allan  wrote:
>>> Hi! I'm fairly new to Python.  I understand the basics basics but I'm
>>> been trying to write a simple python code that will let me read input
>>> data (such as mouse movement) from my USB port and write it in a text
>>> file and I am so lost.  Can anyone help or direct me to some
>>> resources?  Thank you!
>>
>> This isn't exactly what you were looking for, but maybe it will give
>> you some ideas:
>>
>>
>> from Tkinter import *
>>
>> def printMotionEvents(event):
>>     print "mouse coords: %i x %i" % (event.x, event.y)
>>
>> t = Tk()
>> t.bind('', printMotionEvents)
>> t.mainloop()
>>
>>
>> This script creates a little Tkinter window and then makes it so that
>> when you move the mouse over the window the mouse coordinates are
>> printed to stdout.
> 
> If it has focus.
> 
> The overall problem is hard - see e.g. this:
> 
> http://www.wintellect.com/CS/blogs/jrobbins/archive/2008/08/30/so-you-want-to-set-a-windows-journal-recording-hook-on-vista-it-s-not-nearly-as-easy-as-you-think.aspx 

But then, there is a solution :)

http://pypi.python.org/pypi/pyHook/1.4/

Diez


From shearichard at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 18:55:49 2009
From: shearichard at gmail.com (northof40)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 15:55:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: What file is foo in package bar in ?
Message-ID: 

Hi - I think this is a pretty basic question but it's never worried me
before.

To improve my skills I'm reading the source code of a library written
by someone else.

I've come across a problem doing that.

Commonly a function is called like this:

thepackage.theclass.foo

The problem is that 'theclass' is implemented in a file called
nothingliketheclass.py so finding the implemention of foo is a bit
boring.

Now I can grep for foo and depending on how common the method name is
that helps ... or not but I'm sure there must be a better way.

Given an arbitary package is there some programmatic way to 'ask' what
file the method/function is implemented in ?

thanks

R.






From jcd at sdf.lonestar.org  Wed Aug 19 19:01:16 2009
From: jcd at sdf.lonestar.org (J. Cliff Dyer)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 19:01:16 -0400
Subject: How to create functors?
In-Reply-To: <4a8c0478$0$2752$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: 
	
	
	
	<4a8c0478$0$2752$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <1250722876.5792.3.camel@webb>

On Wed, 2009-08-19 at 15:56 +0200, Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
> Terry Reedy a ?crit :
> > Robert Dailey wrote:
> > 
> >> I'm using Python 2.6. And using the legacy syntax in the lambda does
> >> not work either. I want to avoid using a def if possible. Thanks.
> > 
> > In Python, writing
> > 
> > name = lambda arg: expr
> > 
> > instead of
> > 
> > def name(arg): return expr
> > 
> > is all negative and no positive and should be avoided.
> 
> Except that def is a statement, and as such can't be used as a named 
> params when calling a function expecting a callback, ie:
> 
> vroom = some_dead('parrot', name=lambda arg: exp)
> 
> (notice the 'name = lambda arg: exp' ?-)
> 

Which offers no added functionality over:

  def name_func(arg):
      return exp

  vroom = some_dead('parrot', name=name_func)

except for confusion in debugging. :)  (See other excessively long
threads on lambda for further discussion of the debugging headaches
caused by lambdas.


> Ok, nitpicking. Me --->[]
> 
> 



From lists at cheimes.de  Wed Aug 19 19:06:00 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 01:06:00 +0200
Subject: What file is foo in package bar in ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

northof40 wrote:
> Given an arbitary package is there some programmatic way to 'ask' what
> file the method/function is implemented in ?

Indeed, the inspect module contains several useful functions for the 
job, for example
http://docs.python.org/library/inspect.html#inspect.getfile

Christian



From ndbecker2 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 19:19:24 2009
From: ndbecker2 at gmail.com (Neal Becker)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 19:19:24 -0400
Subject: #elements of seq A in seq B
Message-ID: 

What would be a time efficient way to count the number of occurrences of 
elements of sequence A in sequence B?  (in this particular case, these 
sequences are strings, if that matters).



From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Wed Aug 19 19:36:19 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 01:36:19 +0200
Subject: difference between 2 arrays
In-Reply-To: <4a8bbe36$0$12654$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr>
References: 
	<4a8bbe36$0$12654$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr>
Message-ID: 

19-08-2009 o 10:56:20 <""Michel Claveau -
MVP"> wrote:

> (envoy? via news:\\news.wanadoo.fr\comp.lang.python)
>
> Hi!
>
> See the module "sets"

No, see the builtin set type. Module sets is deprecated (removed in Py 3.x)

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From shearichard at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 19:42:16 2009
From: shearichard at gmail.com (northof40)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 16:42:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: What file is foo in package bar in ?
References: 
	
Message-ID: <48a9837b-eb37-47ba-9032-5c5ff7d42223@x25g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 20, 11:06?am, Christian Heimes  wrote:
> northof40 wrote:
> > Given an arbitary package is there some programmatic way to 'ask' what
> > file the method/function is implemented in ?
>
> Indeed, the inspect module contains several useful functions for the
> job, for examplehttp://docs.python.org/library/inspect.html#inspect.getfile
>
> Christian

That's really great thanks - just what I was after.

regards

R.



From ronn.ross at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 19:55:06 2009
From: ronn.ross at gmail.com (Ronn Ross)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 19:55:06 -0400
Subject: Barcodes
In-Reply-To: <9c8c445f0908190619v5f50de1bvbbfbd8c0557f9783@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9c8c445f0908171318x2d9d862bi35ccb398376aceca@mail.gmail.com>
	 <4A89C3BB.2030605@tim.thechases.com>
	<9c8c445f0908190619v5f50de1bvbbfbd8c0557f9783@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9c8c445f0908191655i42ec8f86p8f699f2b35cbf6f7@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 9:19 AM, Ronn Ross  wrote:

> I was hoping that python would have a library to help me print my own bar
> codes? We will need labels in all sizes and most label printer just work
> with 1 or 2 sizes. I would like to just print a grid of different sizes on
> standard paper. Does python have a bar code printing library?
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 4:55 PM, Tim Chase wrote:
>
>>  My company needs a small inventory management app. Does
>>>> python have any libraries to help with reading and writing
>>>> bar codes?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I've written bar code apps and python really doesn't enter
>>> into that part of things.  Printers generally have bar code
>>> printing capabilities so you just send the right escape
>>> sequences and you get the bar codes. To read them, bar code
>>> readers scan and translate before sending the values through
>>> typically a keyboard wedge or serial port.
>>>
>>
>> To add to what Emile mentions, most barcode readers present a
>> keyboard-wedge interface, so that scanning a barcode merely appears as if
>> you typed it at the keyboard (USB readers show up as a HID profile).  Often
>> they'll have configuration barcodes that you can scan to tweak the profile
>> (such as pressing ,  or an arrow-key after sending the barcode;
>> controlling beep tone & volume, etc).
>>
>> For printing barcodes, you can use any number of solutions -- the most
>> popular usually just involves installing a "barcode font" and then rendering
>> text in that font to your desired output canvas.  I believe there are some
>> native rendering solutions as well, but I've not investigated since the font
>> method was more than sufficient for my wants.
>>
>> -tkc
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>
> I found this library, but no documentation(
https://cybernetics.hudora.biz/projects/wiki/huBarcode). Has anyone used
this or know of a similar library with better documentation?
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Wed Aug 19 20:05:57 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 02:05:57 +0200
Subject: Dictionary from a list
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<7f368jF2it5a5U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
Message-ID: 

19-08-2009 o 22:52:54 iu2  wrote:

> On Aug 19, 11:39?pm, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
>> iu2 schrieb:
>>
>> > Hi all,
>>
>> > I need to create a dictionary out of a list.
>>
>> > Given the list [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]
>>
>> > I need the dictionary: {1:2, 3:4, 5:6}
>>
>> dict(zip(l[::2], l[1::2]))

Or (for long lists, when memory becomes expensive):

     dict(li[i:i+2] for i in xrange(0, len(li), 2))

Or probably better:

     from itertools import islice, izip
     dict(izip(islice(li, 0, None, 2), islice(li, 1, None, 2)))

Cheers,
*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Wed Aug 19 20:17:47 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 02:17:47 +0200
Subject: #elements of seq A in seq B
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

20-08-2009 o 01:19:24 Neal Becker  wrote:

> What would be a time efficient way to count the number of occurrences of
> elements of sequence A in sequence B?  (in this particular case, these
> sequences are strings, if that matters).

If you mean: to count occurences of each element of A (separately) in B...

Hm, maybe something like this:

   # result as a dict {: , ...}
   dict((element, B.count(element)) for element in A)


If you mean: to count non overlaping occurences of string A in B
-- simply:

   B.count(A)


Regards,
*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From mhanuel at ieee.org  Wed Aug 19 20:27:07 2009
From: mhanuel at ieee.org (Manuel A. Iglesias Abbatemarco)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 00:27:07 +0000
Subject: grokproject and zope.security==3.4.1 error
Message-ID: 


I will apprreciate if someone could help me with the following error.

I a trying to create a grokproject application in my debian 5.0 box,
the following is the output after executing # grokproject Sample
command.



debian-box:/home/manuel-debian# grokproject Sample

Enter user (Name of an initial administrator user): grok

Enter passwd (Password for the initial administrator user): 

Downloading info about versions...

Creating directory ./Sample

Downloading zc.buildout...

Invoking zc.buildout...

Develop: '/home/manuel-debian/Sample/.'

Installing eggbasket.

Couldn't find index page for 'zope.security' (maybe misspelled?)

Getting distribution for 'zope.security==3.4.1'.

eggbasket: Distributions are not installed. A tarball will be downloaded.

eggbasket: Distributions are not installed. A tarball will be downloaded.

eggbasket: Downloading http://grok.zope.org/releaseinfo/grok-eggs-1.0a4.tgz ...

eggbasket: Downloading http://grok.zope.org/releaseinfo/grok-eggs-1.0a4.tgz ...

eggbasket: Finished downloading.

eggbasket: Finished downloading.

eggbasket: Extracting tarball contents...

eggbasket: Extracting tarball contents...

eggbasket: Installing eggs to /root/.buildout/eggs which will take a while...

eggbasket: Installing eggs to /root/.buildout/eggs which will take a while...

Getting distribution for 'zope.security==3.4.1'.

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:19:20: error: Python.h: No such file or directory

In file included from src/zope/security/_proxy.c:20:

include/zope.proxy/proxy.h:8: error: expected ?)? before ?*? token

include/zope.proxy/proxy.h:9: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

include/zope.proxy/proxy.h:10: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

include/zope.proxy/proxy.h:11: error: expected ?)? before ?*? token

include/zope.proxy/proxy.h:12: error: expected ?)? before ?*? token

include/zope.proxy/proxy.h:16: error: expected specifier-qualifier-list before ?PyObject_HEAD?

include/zope.proxy/proxy.h:23: error: expected specifier-qualifier-list before ?PyTypeObject?

include/zope.proxy/proxy.h:37: error: ?NULL? undeclared here (not in a function)

include/zope.proxy/proxy.h: In function ?Proxy_Import?:

include/zope.proxy/proxy.h:43: error: ?PyObject? undeclared (first use in this function)

include/zope.proxy/proxy.h:43: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once

include/zope.proxy/proxy.h:43: error: for each function it appears in.)

include/zope.proxy/proxy.h:43: error: ?m? undeclared (first use in this function)

include/zope.proxy/proxy.h:43: warning: implicit declaration of function ?PyImport_ImportModule?

include/zope.proxy/proxy.h:45: error: ?tmp? undeclared (first use in this function)

include/zope.proxy/proxy.h:45: warning: implicit declaration of function ?PyObject_GetAttrString?

include/zope.proxy/proxy.h:47: warning: implicit declaration of function ?PyCObject_Check?

include/zope.proxy/proxy.h:49: warning: implicit declaration of function ?PyCObject_AsVoidPtr?

include/zope.proxy/proxy.h:50: warning: implicit declaration of function ?Py_DECREF?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c: At top level:

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:22: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:26: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:27: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:28: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:29: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:30: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:31: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:32: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:33: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:34: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:35: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:36: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:37: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:38: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:39: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:40: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:41: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:42: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:43: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:44: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:45: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:46: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:47: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:48: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:49: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:50: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:51: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:52: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:53: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:54: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:55: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:56: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:57: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:58: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:59: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:60: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:61: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:62: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:63: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:64: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:65: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:66: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:67: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:68: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:69: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:70: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:71: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:72: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:73: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:74: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:75: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:76: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:77: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:78: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:79: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:80: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:81: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:82: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:83: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:84: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:85: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:86: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:87: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:88: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:89: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:90: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:91: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:92: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:93: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:94: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:95: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:96: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:100: error: expected specifier-qualifier-list before ?PyObject?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:109: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?SecurityProxyType?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:116: error: expected declaration specifiers or ?...? before ?PyObject?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:116: error: expected declaration specifiers or ?...? before ?PyObject?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c: In function ?check?:

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:118: error: ?PyObject? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:118: error: ?r? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:126: error: ?SecurityProxy? has no member named ?proxy_checker?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:127: error: ?SecurityProxy? has no member named ?proxy_checker?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:128: error: ?meth? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:128: error: ?str_check_setattr? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:129: error: ?SecurityProxy? has no member named ?proxy_checker?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:130: error: ?SecurityProxy? has no member named ?proxy_checker?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:130: error: ?ProxyObject? has no member named ?proxy_object?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:130: error: ?name? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:132: warning: implicit declaration of function ?PyObject_CallMethodObjArgs?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:132: error: ?SecurityProxy? has no member named ?proxy_checker?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:133: error: ?ProxyObject? has no member named ?proxy_object?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c: At top level:

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:162: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:164: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:176: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:210: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:250: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:282: error: expected ?)? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c: In function ?proxy_clear?:

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:290: error: ?SecurityProxy? has no member named ?proxy_checker?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:290: error: ?PyObject? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:290: error: ?t? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:290: error: ?SecurityProxy? has no member named ?proxy_checker?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:290: error: ?SecurityProxy? has no member named ?proxy_checker?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:291: error: ?SecurityProxyType? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:291: error: expected expression before ?)? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c: In function ?proxy_dealloc?:

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:299: error: ?SecurityProxyType? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:299: error: ?PyObject? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:299: error: expected expression before ?)? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c: At top level:

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:303: error: expected declaration specifiers or ?...? before ?visitproc?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c: In function ?proxy_traverse?:

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:305: warning: implicit declaration of function ?visit?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:305: error: ?ProxyObject? has no member named ?proxy_object?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:307: error: ?SecurityProxy? has no member named ?proxy_checker?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c: At top level:

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:312: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:324: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:337: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:350: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:364: error: expected declaration specifiers or ?...? before ?PyObject?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:364: error: expected declaration specifiers or ?...? before ?PyObject?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c: In function ?proxy_setattro?:

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:366: error: ?str_check_setattr? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:366: error: ?name? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:366: error: too many arguments to function ?check?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:367: warning: implicit declaration of function ?PyObject_SetAttr?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:367: error: ?ProxyObject? has no member named ?proxy_object?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:367: error: ?value? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c: At top level:

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:371: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:410: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:427: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:443: error: expected declaration specifiers or ?...? before ?PyObject?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c: In function ?proxy_compare?:

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:445: warning: implicit declaration of function ?PyObject_Compare?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:445: error: ?ProxyObject? has no member named ?proxy_object?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:445: error: ?other? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c: In function ?proxy_hash?:

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:451: warning: implicit declaration of function ?PyObject_Hash?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:451: error: ?ProxyObject? has no member named ?proxy_object?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c: At top level:

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:454: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:484: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:485: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:486: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:487: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:488: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:490: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:497: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:498: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:499: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:500: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:501: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:502: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:504: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:544: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:545: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:546: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:547: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:548: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:551: error: expected ?)? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:596: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:597: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:598: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:601: error: expected ?)? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:606: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:607: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:608: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:609: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:610: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:611: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:613: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:614: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:615: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:616: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:617: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:618: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:619: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:620: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:621: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:622: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:623: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:625: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:626: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:627: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:628: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c: In function ?proxy_length?:

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:637: error: ?str_check? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:637: error: ?str___len__? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:637: error: too many arguments to function ?check?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:638: warning: implicit declaration of function ?PyObject_Length?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:638: error: ?ProxyObject? has no member named ?proxy_object?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c: At top level:

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:643: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:644: error: expected declaration specifiers or ?...? before ?PyObject?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:644: error: expected declaration specifiers or ?...? before ?PyObject?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:646: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:661: error: expected declaration specifiers or ?...? before ?PyObject?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c: In function ?proxy_isetitem?:

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:663: error: ?PyObject? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:663: error: ?key? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:663: warning: implicit declaration of function ?PyInt_FromLong?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:667: error: ?value? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:667: error: too many arguments to function ?proxy_setitem?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c: At top level:

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:673: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:686: error: expected declaration specifiers or ?...? before ?PyObject?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c: In function ?proxy_ass_slice?:

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:688: error: ?str_check? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:688: error: ?str___setslice__? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:688: error: too many arguments to function ?check?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:689: warning: implicit declaration of function ?PySequence_SetSlice?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:689: error: ?ProxyObject? has no member named ?proxy_object?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:689: error: ?value? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c: At top level:

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:694: error: expected declaration specifiers or ?...? before ?PyObject?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c: In function ?proxy_contains?:

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:696: error: ?str_check? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:696: error: ?str___contains__? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:696: error: too many arguments to function ?check?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:697: warning: implicit declaration of function ?PySequence_Contains?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:697: error: ?ProxyObject? has no member named ?proxy_object?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:697: error: ?value? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c: At top level:

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:705: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:719: error: expected declaration specifiers or ?...? before ?PyObject?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:719: error: expected declaration specifiers or ?...? before ?PyObject?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c: In function ?proxy_setitem?:

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:721: error: ?value? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:722: error: ?str_check? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:722: error: ?str___delitem__? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:722: error: too many arguments to function ?check?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:723: warning: implicit declaration of function ?PyObject_DelItem?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:723: error: ?ProxyObject? has no member named ?proxy_object?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:723: error: ?key? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:726: error: ?str___setitem__? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:726: error: too many arguments to function ?check?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:727: warning: implicit declaration of function ?PyObject_SetItem?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:727: error: ?ProxyObject? has no member named ?proxy_object?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c: At top level:

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:737: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?proxy_as_number?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:785: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?proxy_as_sequence?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:797: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?proxy_as_mapping?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:817: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?PyTypeObject?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:862: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:877: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?*? token

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:892: error: expected ?=?, ?,?, ?;?, ?asm? or ?__attribute__? before ?module_functions?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c: In function ?init_proxy?:

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:905: error: ?PyObject? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:905: error: ?m? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:915: error: ?str___3pow__? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:915: warning: implicit declaration of function ?PyString_InternFromString?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:916: error: ?str___call__? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:917: error: ?str_check? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:918: error: ?str_check_getattr? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:919: error: ?str_check_setattr? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:920: error: ?str___cmp__? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:921: error: ?str___coerce__? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:922: error: ?str___contains__? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:923: error: ?str___delitem__? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:924: error: ?str___getitem__? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:925: error: ?str___getslice__? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:926: error: ?str___hash__? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:927: error: ?str___iter__? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:928: error: ?str___len__? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:929: error: ?str_next? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:930: error: ?str___nonzero__? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:931: error: ?str_op_abs? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:932: error: ?str_op_add? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:933: error: ?str_op_and? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:934: error: ?str_op_div? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:935: error: ?str_op_divmod? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:936: error: ?str_op_float? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:937: error: ?str_op_floordiv? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:938: error: ?str_op_hex? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:939: error: ?str_op_iadd? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:940: error: ?str_op_iand? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:941: error: ?str_op_idiv? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:942: error: ?str_op_ifloordiv? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:943: error: ?str_op_ilshift? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:944: error: ?str_op_imod? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:945: error: ?str_op_imul? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:946: error: ?str_op_int? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:947: error: ?str_op_invert? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:948: error: ?str_op_ior? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:949: error: ?str_op_ipow? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:950: error: ?str_op_irshift? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:951: error: ?str_op_isub? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:952: error: ?str_op_itruediv? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:953: error: ?str_op_ixor? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:954: error: ?str_op_long? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:955: error: ?str_op_lshift? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:956: error: ?str_op_mod? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:957: error: ?str_op_mul? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:958: error: ?str_op_neg? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:959: error: ?str_op_oct? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:960: error: ?str_op_or? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:961: error: ?str_op_pos? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:962: error: ?str_op_radd? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:963: error: ?str_op_rand? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:964: error: ?str_op_rdiv? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:965: error: ?str_op_rdivmod? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:966: error: ?str_op_rfloordiv? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:967: error: ?str_op_rlshift? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:968: error: ?str_op_rmod? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:969: error: ?str_op_rmul? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:970: error: ?str_op_ror? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:971: error: ?str_op_rrshift? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:972: error: ?str_op_rshift? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:973: error: ?str_op_rsub? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:974: error: ?str_op_rtruediv? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:975: error: ?str_op_rxor? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:976: error: ?str_op_sub? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:977: error: ?str_op_truediv? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:978: error: ?str_op_xor? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:979: error: ?str___pow__? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:980: error: ?str_proxy? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:981: error: ?str___repr__? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:982: error: ?str___rpow__? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:983: error: ?str___setitem__? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:984: error: ?str___setslice__? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:985: error: ?str___str__? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:988: error: ?__class__str? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:988: warning: implicit declaration of function ?PyString_FromString?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:991: error: ?__name__str? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:994: error: ?__module__str? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:997: error: ?SecurityProxyType? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:997: error: ?PyType_Type? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:998: error: ?PyType_GenericAlloc? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:999: error: ?_PyObject_GC_Del? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:1000: error: ?ProxyInterface? has no member named ?proxytype?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:1001: warning: implicit declaration of function ?PyType_Ready?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:1004: warning: implicit declaration of function ?Py_InitModule3?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:1004: error: ?module_functions? undeclared (first use in this function)

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:1008: warning: implicit declaration of function ?Py_INCREF?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:1009: warning: implicit declaration of function ?PyModule_AddObject?

src/zope/security/_proxy.c:1009: error: expected expression before ?)? token

error: Setup script exited with error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1

An error occured when trying to install zope.security 3.4.1.Look above
this message for any errors thatwere output by easy_install.

While:

  Installing eggbasket.

  Getting distribution for 'zope.security==3.4.1'.

Error: Couldn't install: zope.security 3.4.1





Thank you in advance.

Manuel

_________________________________________________________________
With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos.
http://www.windowslive.com/Desktop/PhotoGallery
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From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Wed Aug 19 20:29:32 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 02:29:32 +0200
Subject: Dictionary from a list
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<7f368jF2it5a5U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	
Message-ID: 

20-08-2009 o 02:05:57 Jan Kaliszewski  wrote:

> Or probably better:
>
>      from itertools import islice, izip
>      dict(izip(islice(li, 0, None, 2), islice(li, 1, None, 2)))

Or similarly, perhaps more readable:

     iterator = iter(li)
     dict((iterator.next(), iterator.next()) for i in xrange(len(li)/2))

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Wed Aug 19 20:51:36 2009
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (greg)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 12:51:36 +1200
Subject: Identifying a class type - bad practice?
In-Reply-To: <520f55a6-38ac-432b-97e7-ec327740645a@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
References: <5a6e91f5-83c1-42a3-ab8a-082c4d8e840c@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<520f55a6-38ac-432b-97e7-ec327740645a@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7f3kvpF2in935U1@mid.individual.net>

James Harris wrote:
> I don't know yet whether it will be
> easier to modify the tree or to create a new one for each phase.

You can create a new tree using this style as
well. Just have each method create and return a
new node instead of modifying the existing one.

-- 
Greg


From nat.k at gm.ml  Wed Aug 19 20:58:15 2009
From: nat.k at gm.ml (Nathan Keel)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 17:58:15 -0700
Subject: python doc available in emacs info format?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

A.Politz wrote:

> On Aug 17, 6:43?am, Xah Lee  wrote:
>> btw, is there still [no] info format for python doc?
>>
>> i feel kinda sad [...]
>> Part of this is due to [other peoples fault]
> 
> Someone started a rst2info project (google it), maybe you want to help
> this guy out.
> 
> Though, he might be a techgeeker, so watch out !
> 
> -ap

Don't bother with this Xah Lee clown.  He posts random crap because he
thinks everyone wants to hear what he has to say about unrelated
subject material and thinks he looks smart for doing it. Unfortunately,
he usually lacks a clue about any topic he brings up (and he always
starts a new thread like he's some authority).  His goals are nothing
more than to post arrogant, clueless rants thinking he's showing off. 
this is why he ALWAYS cross posts to the same groups (Emacs, Python,,
Perl, etc.), even when the topic or content has nothing to do with
those things.  He thinks people in these groups automatically respect
him, when most have killfiled him.


From http  Wed Aug 19 21:42:32 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 19 Aug 2009 18:42:32 -0700
Subject: How to create functors?
References: 
Message-ID: <7xab1vl0qf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Robert Dailey  writes:
> I want to simply wrap a function up into an object so it can be called
> with no parameters. 

Nitpick: what you are asking for is called a closure.  "Functor" means
something completely different.  As a few other people have explained,
"print" in python 2.x is a statement rather than a function.  You could
use sys.stdout.write instead of print. 


From http  Wed Aug 19 21:45:53 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 19 Aug 2009 18:45:53 -0700
Subject: Python and PHP encryption/decryption
References: 
Message-ID: <7x63cjl0ku.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Jean-Claude Neveu  writes:
> I'm working on a project that will require me to store some values in
> a database in encrypted format. I'll be storing them from a PHP script
> and retrieving them (decrypting them) using Python. I'm currently
> using PHP's mcrypt package to encrypt the values, and I'm using AES
> for encryption, so something AES-compatible would be ideal.

There are several python libraries that support AES in the standard
operating modes.  If you are doing something sensible on the PHP side,
you should be able to get Python to interoperate with it.  Be careful
that you are doing the right things algorithmically in terms of modes,
IV's, etc.  If you don't know what you're doing in this area, it's
best to (at minimum) seek more specific advice.



From sajmikins at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 22:12:14 2009
From: sajmikins at gmail.com (Simon Forman)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 19:12:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: #elements of seq A in seq B
References: 
	
Message-ID: <7c16abe1-7502-432a-acff-aff95c22a8ac@q14g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 19, 8:17?pm, "Jan Kaliszewski"  wrote:
> 20-08-2009 o 01:19:24 Neal Becker  wrote:
>
> > What would be a time efficient way to count the number of occurrences of
> > elements of sequence A in sequence B? ?(in this particular case, these
> > sequences are strings, if that matters).
>
> If you mean: to count occurences of each element of A (separately) in B...
>
> Hm, maybe something like this:
>
> ? ?# result as a dict {: , ...}
> ? ?dict((element, B.count(element)) for element in A)
>
> If you mean: to count non overlaping occurences of string A in B
> -- simply:
>
> ? ?B.count(A)
>
> Regards,
> *j
>
> --
> Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 

You don't want to use count() in a case like this because it iterates
through B len(A) times, i.e. this algorithm is O(A x B).

If all you want is the total you can do it like this:

def f(a, b):
    a = set(a)
    return sum(item in a for item in b)


A = 'some string'
B = 'another string'

print f(A, B) # prints 12


If you want to know the count for each element you can use this:

from collections import defaultdict

def g(a, b):
    a = set(a)
    d = defaultdict(int)
    for item in b:
        if item in a:
            d[item] += 1
    return d

print g(A, B)

# prints defaultdict(, {' ': 1, 'e': 1, 'g': 1, 'i': 1,
'o': 1, 'n': 2, 's': 1, 'r': 2, 't': 2})

HTH,
~Simon


From rtomek at ceti.com.pl  Wed Aug 19 22:45:46 2009
From: rtomek at ceti.com.pl (Tomasz Rola)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 04:45:46 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: #elements of seq A in seq B
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 19 Aug 2009, Neal Becker wrote:

> What would be a time efficient way to count the number of occurrences of 
> elements of sequence A in sequence B?  (in this particular case, these 
> sequences are strings, if that matters).

If A and B are rather lengthy, then maybe build a tree from elements of A 
and use it to count elements of B. I.e., tree nodes would be counters. 
Building trees in Python, however, I guess it is a little bit tricky. Of 
course it is possible. But maybe you would rather have this tree 
maintained in C.

Regards
Tomasz Rola

--
** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature.      **
** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home    **
** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened...      **
**                                                                 **
** Tomasz Rola          mailto:tomasz_rola at bigfoot.com             **


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 23:04:12 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 20:04:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How do I convert an iterator over bytes into a str?
References: <3e3d2ebd-df8a-42a8-9420-0439a965a0d5@v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	
	<2c212222-0dac-4bd3-8130-5bd302d12dd5@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

markscottwright  wrote:
> Thanks Jan (and all other responders). ?I suppose I shouldn't be
> surprised - it's a known wart (http://wiki.python.org/moin/
> PythonWarts), but it just looks so darn wrong.

Don't forget that it's exceptionally easy to create your own mechanism
for doing this:

  def join(seq, sep):
     return sep.join(map(str, seq))


From laser.yuan at gmail.com  Wed Aug 19 23:22:55 2009
From: laser.yuan at gmail.com (laser)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 20:22:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: IDLE is not as interactive as Maple
Message-ID: <7aa51a98-965c-4c74-a3b5-650140f1d589@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

In the future, will Python provide programe enviroment like Maple
does? In Maple, you can remove anything unneeded in the editor. And
the code execution order are not necessary in one direction. You can
run any command line on the screen by
push Enter key. These functions gave a lot of flaxibility for users to
start with programming something.


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Wed Aug 19 23:34:51 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 20:34:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: #elements of seq A in seq B
References: 
	 
	<7c16abe1-7502-432a-acff-aff95c22a8ac@q14g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <285422cf-9a8d-43ef-a5ac-a04a3ce9a002@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 20, 12:12?pm, Simon Forman  wrote:
> On Aug 19, 8:17?pm, "Jan Kaliszewski"  wrote:
> > If you mean: to count non overlaping occurences of string A in B
> > -- simply:
>
> > ? ?B.count(A)
>
> You don't want to use count() in a case like this because it iterates
> through B len(A) times, i.e. this algorithm is O(A x B).

There's seems to be multiple confusion here. Jan was talking about
counting non-overlapping occurrences of string A in [string] B. In
that case B.count(A) is nowhere near O(A*B)... in fact in reasonable
cases it is sub-linear i.e. O(B/A)

See http://svn.python.org/view/python/trunk/Objects/stringlib/fastsearch.h?revision=68811&view=markup

And even a naive implementation of str.count() would not "iterate
through B len(A) times".

and list.count() can't be used on its own to solve Neal's problem; its
arg is a single element so it would have to be wrapped in a loop: sum
(B.count(a) for a in A) which would of course be O(A*B)


From metolone+gmane at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 00:01:23 2009
From: metolone+gmane at gmail.com (Mark Tolonen)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 21:01:23 -0700
Subject: Read C++ enum in python
References: <4a8b3342$0$25403$426a34cc@news.free.fr><4A8B3E2D.7040702@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	
Message-ID: 


"Mark Tolonen"  wrote in message 
news:h6g9ig$vh0$1 at ger.gmane.org...
[snip]
>
> This is what 3rd party library pyparsing is great for:
>
> --------begin code----------
> from pyparsing import *
>
> # sample string with enums and other stuff
> sample = '''
>    stuff before
>
>    enum hello {
>        Zero,
>        One,
>        Two,
>        Three,
>        Five=5,
>        Six,
>        Ten=10
>    }
>
>    in the middle
>
>    enum blah
>    {
>        alpha,
>        beta,
>        gamma = 10 ,
>        zeta = 50
>    }
>
>    at the end
>    '''
>
> # syntax we don't want to see in the final parse tree
> _lcurl = Suppress('{')
> _rcurl = Suppress('}')
> _equal = Suppress('=')
> _comma = Suppress(',')
> _enum = Suppress('enum')
>
> identifier = Word(alphas,alphanums+'_')
> integer = Word(nums)
>
> enumValue = Group(identifier('name') + Optional(_equal + 
> integer('value')))
> enumList = Group(enumValue + ZeroOrMore(_comma + enumValue))
> enum = _enum + identifier('enum') + _lcurl + enumList('list') + _rcurl
>
> # find instances of enums ignoring other syntax
> for item,start,stop in enum.scanString(sample):
>    id = 0
>    for entry in item.list:
>        if entry.value != '':
>            id = int(entry.value)
>        print '%s_%s = %d' % (item.enum.upper(),entry.name.upper(),id)
>        id += 1
> --------------end code------------
>
> Output:
> HELLO_ZERO = 0
> HELLO_ONE = 1
> HELLO_TWO = 2
> HELLO_THREE = 3
> HELLO_FIVE = 5
> HELLO_SIX = 6
> HELLO_TEN = 10
> BLAH_ALPHA = 0
> BLAH_BETA = 1
> BLAH_GAMMA = 10
> BLAH_ZETA = 50

Paul McGuire (pyparsing author) reminded me that:

    enum.ignore(cppStyleComment)

before scanString will skip commented out sections as well.

-Mark




From half.italian at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 00:04:47 2009
From: half.italian at gmail.com (Sean DiZazzo)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 21:04:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: basic thread question
References: <20090818201015.GP20434@dragontoe.org>
	 
	<92338aa1-0913-483a-b950-c73f0fdb0b1f@v37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4213ecf5-4981-48b4-a038-229cc330db32@p36g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 18, 4:58?pm, birdsong  wrote:
> On Aug 18, 3:18?pm, Derek Martin  wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 03:10:15PM -0500, Derek Martin wrote:
> > > I have some simple threaded code... ?If I run this
> > > with an arg of 1 (start one thread), it pegs one cpu, as I would
> > > expect. ?If I run it with an arg of 2 (start 2 threads), it uses both
> > > CPUs, but utilization of both is less than 50%. ?Can anyone explain
> > > why? ?
>
> > Ah, searching while waiting for an answer (the e-mail gateway is a bit
> > slow, it seems...) I discovered that the GIL is the culprate.
> > Evidently this question comes up a lot. ?It would probably save a lot
> > of time on the part of those who answer questions here, as well as
> > those implementing solutions in Python, if whoever is maintaining the
> > docs these days would put a blurb about this in the docs in big bold
> > letters... ?Concurrency being perhaps the primary reason to use
> > threading, essentially it means that Python is not useful for the
> > sorts of problems that one would be inclined to solve they way my code
> > works (or rather, was meant to). ?It would be very helpful to know
> > that *before* one tried to implement a solution that way... especially
> > for solutions significantly less trivial than mine. ;-)
>
> > Thanks
>
> > --
> > Derek D. Martinhttp://www.pizzashack.org/
> > GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D
>
> > ?application_pgp-signature_part
> > < 1KViewDownload
>
> I would still watch that video which will explain a bit more about the
> GIL.

Thank you for the video!  It's good to know, but it raises lots of
other questions in my mind.  Lots of examples would have helped.

~Sean


From Brian.Mingus at colorado.edu  Thu Aug 20 00:08:46 2009
From: Brian.Mingus at colorado.edu (Brian)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 22:08:46 -0600
Subject: Read C++ enum in python
In-Reply-To: <4a8b3342$0$25403$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4a8b3342$0$25403$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <9839a05c0908192108w32148026r8112f1683010620a@mail.gmail.com>

pygccxml http://www.language-binding.net/pygccxml/pygccxml.html

It uses gccxml to compile your source code into xml, and then makes all of
your source code available to you via a high level and convenient query
interface in python.

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 5:03 PM, Ludo <
olivier.anospamrnospamnnospamanospamenospamz at affaires.net> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I work in a very large project where we have C++ packages and pieces of
> python code.
>
> I've been googleing for days but what I find seems really too complicated
> for what I want to do.
>
> My business is, in python, to read enum definitions provided by the header
> file of an c++ package.
> Of course I could open the .h file, read the enum and transcode it by hand
> into a .py file but the package is regularly updated and thus is the enum.
>
> My question is then simple : do we have :
>        - either a simple way in python to read the .h file, retrieve the
> c++ enum and provide an access to it in my python script
>        - either a simple tool (in a long-term it would be automatically run
> when the c++ package is compiled) generating from the .h file a .py file
> containing the python definition of the enums ?
>
> Thank you for any suggestion.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Thu Aug 20 00:11:32 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 20 Aug 2009 04:11:32 GMT
Subject: How to create functors?
References: 
	<7xab1vl0qf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 19 Aug 2009 18:42:32 -0700, Paul Rubin wrote:

> Robert Dailey  writes:
>> I want to simply wrap a function up into an object so it can be called
>> with no parameters.
> 
> Nitpick: what you are asking for is called a closure.  "Functor" means
> something completely different.


I'm glad somebody else noticed this. I would have said something about it 
myself, except I wasn't entirely sure my understanding of functor is 
correct. As near as I can tell, a functor is just an object which is 
callable like a function without actually being implemented as a 
function, e.g.:

class Functor:
    def __call__(self):
        return None

f = Functor()
result = f()



-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Thu Aug 20 00:13:50 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 20 Aug 2009 04:13:50 GMT
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<90cd2c33-5f2d-4a29-b267-67f233ae2946@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
	<4A8ADF6D.2030405@sequans.com>
	
	<87hbw4fxcq.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
	<87r5v8e9cu.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 19 Aug 2009 10:51:08 -0700, Simon Forman wrote:

> (FWIW, I've always admired Humpty Dumpty's attitude to words.

"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, "it 
means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less."

When you say "admired", do you mean what the rest of us understand by 
"admired", or something completely different?

How about "always", "attitude", "to" and "words"?

For all I know, you're talking about baking a birthday cake for your cat, 
by which I mean shaving off all your hair, and by "hair" I mean "lunch" 
and by "shaving off" I mean "eating".


> Have you
> ever read R.A. Wilson's "Quantum Psychology"?)

Perhaps I have, perhaps I haven't, it depends on who asks first.



-- 
Steven


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Thu Aug 20 00:20:09 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 20 Aug 2009 04:20:09 GMT
Subject: How do I convert an iterator over bytes into a str?
References: <3e3d2ebd-df8a-42a8-9420-0439a965a0d5@v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	
	<2c212222-0dac-4bd3-8130-5bd302d12dd5@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 19 Aug 2009 20:04:12 -0700, alex23 wrote:

> markscottwright  wrote:
>> Thanks Jan (and all other responders). ?I suppose I shouldn't be
>> surprised - it's a known wart (http://wiki.python.org/moin/
>> PythonWarts), but it just looks so darn wrong.
> 
> Don't forget that it's exceptionally easy to create your own mechanism
> for doing this:
> 
>   def join(seq, sep):
>      return sep.join(map(str, seq))

Oh oh oh my brain hurts!!! Neither "seq" nor "sep" are real words, both 
are abbreviations, they differ by a single letter, and the two letters 
are mirror images of each other!!!

This is a recipe for confusion when people get the order of sep and seq 
mixed up. Hopefully in real life code, you'd use a less easily confused 
function signature -- even just spelling out sequence and separator in 
full would reduce confusion to essentially zero.



-- 
Steven


From jsrat10 at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 00:34:22 2009
From: jsrat10 at gmail.com (jo)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 21:34:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: starting selenium rc server from python code
Message-ID: 

Hi,
Is there anyway to start the selenium rc server within python code?

Thank you
Jo


From metolone+gmane at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 00:52:36 2009
From: metolone+gmane at gmail.com (Mark Tolonen)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 21:52:36 -0700
Subject: Converting DD MM YYYY into YYYY-MM-DD?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 


"Gilles Ganault"  wrote in message 
news:rtqk859vm3rkdfor0gd2u2pq5sftl8mccm at 4ax.com...
>I find it odd that the regex library can't handle European characters

It can.  Read the documentation about the re.LOCALE flag.

-Mark




From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Thu Aug 20 01:17:21 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 20 Aug 2009 05:17:21 GMT
Subject: starting selenium rc server from python code
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 19 Aug 2009 21:34:22 -0700, jo wrote:

> Hi,
> Is there anyway to start the selenium rc server within python code?



How would you start the selenium rc server outside of Python code?



-- 
Steven


From narkewoody at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 01:31:14 2009
From: narkewoody at gmail.com (Steven Woody)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 13:31:14 +0800
Subject: Blank Line at Program Exit
Message-ID: 

Hi,
Any python program, even that does absolutely nothing in the code, will
cause a blank line printed out when the program exit.  What's the reason?
 Thanks.


-- 
Life is the only flaw in an otherwise perfect nonexistence
   -- Schopenhauer

narke
public key at http://subkeys.pgp.net:11371 (narkewoody at gmail.com)
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From sajmikins at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 01:44:02 2009
From: sajmikins at gmail.com (Simon Forman)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 22:44:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: #elements of seq A in seq B
References: 
	 
	<7c16abe1-7502-432a-acff-aff95c22a8ac@q14g2000vbi.googlegroups.com> 
	<285422cf-9a8d-43ef-a5ac-a04a3ce9a002@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <02165547-8143-4f46-a74e-babe9145c033@s6g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 19, 11:34?pm, John Machin  wrote:
> On Aug 20, 12:12?pm, Simon Forman  wrote:
>
> > On Aug 19, 8:17?pm, "Jan Kaliszewski"  wrote:
> > > If you mean: to count non overlaping occurences of string A in B
> > > -- simply:
>
> > > ? ?B.count(A)
>
> > You don't want to use count() in a case like this because it iterates
> > through B len(A) times, i.e. this algorithm is O(A x B).
>
> There's seems to be multiple confusion here. Jan was talking about
> counting non-overlapping occurrences of string A in [string] B. In
> that case B.count(A) is nowhere near O(A*B)... in fact in reasonable
> cases it is sub-linear i.e. O(B/A)
>
> Seehttp://svn.python.org/view/python/trunk/Objects/stringlib/fastsearch....
>
> And even a naive implementation of str.count() would not "iterate
> through B len(A) times".
>
> and list.count() can't be used on its own to solve Neal's problem; its
> arg is a single element so it would have to be wrapped in a loop: sum
> (B.count(a) for a in A) which would of course be O(A*B)

First, thanks for pointing out str.count().  I didn't know of it and I
didn't notice that that was what was being used in Jan's code. (It's
blindingly obvious-- now that you've pointed it out. :] )


Second, I was referring to this:

   dict((element, B.count(element)) for element in A)

not B.count(A). Sorry for not interspersing my comment better.

Regards,
~Simon


From rylesny at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 01:46:17 2009
From: rylesny at gmail.com (ryles)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 22:46:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Setuptools - help!
References: 
	 
	<9fauk6-t24.ln1@phoenix.fire>
Message-ID: <9b2b4500-3670-40b7-8148-57448500c074@p15g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 7, 3:04?pm, Peter Chant  wrote:
> Robert Kern wrote:
> > You need to put main.py into the pphoto package.
>
> > $ mkdir pphoto/
> > $ mv main.py pphoto/
> > $ touch pphoto/__init__.py
>
> Thanks, it worked. ?Any ideas how to run the resulting scripts without
> installing or running as root?
>
> Pete
>
> --http://www.petezilla.co.uk

If you are using Python 2.6+ you have your own site-packages
directory, e.g. ~/.local/lib/python2.6/site-packages. So, if this
package is only for your own use, you can use easy_install's --install-
dir option to have setuptools install it there, and can also set --
script-dir to ~/bin, where your console script will go. This, and
other options are discussed here:

http://peak.telecommunity.com/DevCenter/EasyInstall#custom-installation-locations


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Aug 20 02:10:28 2009
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 08:10:28 +0200
Subject: Dictionary from a list
References: 
	<7f368jF2it5a5U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

Jan Kaliszewski wrote:

> 20-08-2009 o 02:05:57 Jan Kaliszewski  wrote:
> 
>> Or probably better:
>>
>>      from itertools import islice, izip
>>      dict(izip(islice(li, 0, None, 2), islice(li, 1, None, 2)))
> 
> Or similarly, perhaps more readable:
> 
>      iterator = iter(li)
>      dict((iterator.next(), iterator.next()) for i in xrange(len(li)/2))

I just can't stop posting this one:

>>> from itertools import izip
>>> it = iter([1,2,3,4,5,6])
>>> dict(izip(it, it))
{1: 2, 3: 4, 5: 6}

I really tried, but yours drove me over the edge.

Peter



From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Thu Aug 20 03:05:41 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 20 Aug 2009 07:05:41 GMT
Subject: Dictionary from a list
References: 
	<7f368jF2it5a5U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 08:10:28 +0200, Peter Otten wrote:


> I just can't stop posting this one:
> 
>>>> from itertools import izip
>>>> it = iter([1,2,3,4,5,6])
>>>> dict(izip(it, it))
> {1: 2, 3: 4, 5: 6}
> 
> I really tried, but yours drove me over the edge.

If you want something to drive you over the edge:


>>> alist = [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]
>>> dict(apply(zip, map(lambda n: map(lambda t: t[1], filter(lambda t: 
((not (t[0]%2)) == 1) == n, enumerate(alist))), range(1, -1, -1))))
{1: 2, 3: 4, 5: 6}


Enjoy :)



-- 
Steven


From pierre.gaillard at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 03:18:23 2009
From: pierre.gaillard at gmail.com (Pierre)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 00:18:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: regular expression
Message-ID: 

Hello,

I would like to change the string "(1 and (2 or 3))"  by  "(x[1] & (x
[2] || x[3]))" using regular expression...
Anyone can help me ?

Thanks.





From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 03:34:38 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 00:34:38 -0700
Subject: How to create functors?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<7xab1vl0qf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
Message-ID: <223ACEB9-09FE-4BBB-8B1D-25C66ABB46E3@gmail.com>

> As near as I can tell, a functor is just an object which is
> callable like a function


I believe that's how they're defined in the C++ world, in which, of  
course, functions aren't first-class objects...

-------------
Rami Chowdhury
"Never assume malice when stupidity will suffice." -- Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)




On Aug 19, 2009, at 21:11 , Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> On Wed, 19 Aug 2009 18:42:32 -0700, Paul Rubin wrote:
>
>> Robert Dailey  writes:
>>> I want to simply wrap a function up into an object so it can be  
>>> called
>>> with no parameters.
>>
>> Nitpick: what you are asking for is called a closure.  "Functor"  
>> means
>> something completely different.
>
>
> I'm glad somebody else noticed this. I would have said something  
> about it
> myself, except I wasn't entirely sure my understanding of functor is
> correct. As near as I can tell, a functor is just an object which is
> callable like a function without actually being implemented as a
> function, e.g.:
>
> class Functor:
>     def __call__(self):
>         return None
>
> f = Functor()
> result = f()
>
>
>
> -- 
> Steven
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Thu Aug 20 03:40:06 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 20 Aug 2009 07:40:06 GMT
Subject: regular expression
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 00:18:23 -0700, Pierre wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I would like to change the string "(1 and (2 or 3))"  by  "(x[1] & (x
> [2] || x[3]))" using regular expression... Anyone can help me ?


Do you mean you want to change the string into "(x[1] & (x[2] || x[3]))" ?

Does it have to be using regular expressions? Would this be good enough?


>>> s = "(1 and (2 or 3))"
>>> for c in '123':
...     s = s.replace(c, 'x[%s]'%c)
...
>>> s = s.replace('or', '||')
>>> s = s.replace('and', '&')
>>> s
'(x[1] & (x[2] || x[3]))'



-- 
Steven


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Aug 20 03:45:37 2009
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 09:45:37 +0200
Subject: Dictionary from a list
References: 
	<7f368jF2it5a5U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 08:10:28 +0200, Peter Otten wrote:
> 
> 
>> I just can't stop posting this one:
>> 
>>>>> from itertools import izip
>>>>> it = iter([1,2,3,4,5,6])
>>>>> dict(izip(it, it))
>> {1: 2, 3: 4, 5: 6}
>> 
>> I really tried, but yours drove me over the edge.
> 
> If you want something to drive you over the edge:

I meant that figuratively...

>>>> alist = [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]
>>>> dict(apply(zip, map(lambda n: map(lambda t: t[1], filter(lambda t:
> ((not (t[0]%2)) == 1) == n, enumerate(alist))), range(1, -1, -1))))
> {1: 2, 3: 4, 5: 6}

...originally.

> Enjoy :)

Not ;)



From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Thu Aug 20 03:47:25 2009
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 02:47:25 -0500
Subject: Dictionary from a list
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<7f368jF2it5a5U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>			
	
Message-ID: <4A8CFF8D.9080405@tim.thechases.com>

Peter Otten wrote:
>>>> it = iter([1,2,3,4,5,6])
>>>> dict(izip(it, it))
> {1: 2, 3: 4, 5: 6}

Zip(it).  Zip(it) good.

it's-3:00am-and-i-seriously-need-to-sleep'ly yers...

-tkc





From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Aug 20 03:56:07 2009
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 09:56:07 +0200
Subject: regular expression
References: 
Message-ID: 

Pierre wrote:

> I would like to change the string "(1 and (2 or 3))"  by  "(x[1] & (x
> [2] || x[3]))" using regular expression...
> Anyone can help me ?

>>> re.compile(r"(\d+)").sub(r"x[\1]", "(1 and (2 or 3))")
'(x[1] and (x[2] or x[3]))'
>>> re.compile("and|or").sub(lambda m, d={"and":"&", "or":"||"}: 
d[m.group()], _)
'(x[1] & (x[2] || x[3]))'

Peter




From catalinfest at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 04:23:39 2009
From: catalinfest at gmail.com (catafest)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 01:23:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: PIL and Python
References: 
	<9683190f-3c99-49d6-93d1-d8966d38d7a6@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 


On my photo jpg i have this :

Image Type: jpeg (The JPEG image format)
Width: 1224 pixels
Height: 1632 pixels
Camera Brand: Sony Ericsson
Camera Model: W810i
Date Taken: 2009:07:09 08:16:21
Exposure Time: 1/19 sec.
ISO Speed Rating: 320
Flash Fired: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode.
Metering Mode: Center-Weighted Average
Software: R4EA031     prgCXC1250321_ORANGE_HN 4.5

This is the data i want edit it to make some copyright for my site.


From http  Thu Aug 20 04:36:14 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 20 Aug 2009 01:36:14 -0700
Subject: How to create functors?
References: 
	<7xab1vl0qf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
Message-ID: <7xmy5uanlt.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Steven D'Aprano  writes:
> As near as I can tell, a functor is just an object which is 
> callable like a function without actually being implemented as a 
> function, e.g.:

No it's not anything like that either, at least as I'm used to the
term in programming or in mathematics.  Maybe it's used other ways
though.  As I'm used to it, it's a feature of certain static type
systems.  The notion isn't that useful in Python but you could
translate it something like this: imagine that the "list" datatype has
a couple extra operations:

   # lift_value turns a normal value from a base type to a 1-element list
   list.lift_value(x) = [x]

   # lift_function turns a function on a base type to a higher order
   # function that operates on a whole list
   list.lift_function(f) = partial(map, f)
   
Then given a function like

   def square(x): return x*x

you could say

   lifted_square = list.lifted_function(square)
   print lifted_square([1,2,3,4,5])

and get [1,4,9,16,25].  Similarly if you had some other type (like a
tree data structure), that type could also support a map-like
operation so you could lift functions to it (lifting a function and
applying it to a tree like [1,[2,3],4] would result in [1,[4,9],16] or
whatever).

If I remember properly, for type t to be a functor it needs the above
two lifting operations, with the property that for a given function f,

   t.lifted_value(f(x)) = (t.lifted_function(f))(t.lifted_value(x))

I guess this explanation isn't going that well but basically in a
statically typed language you'd use functors to convert the signatures
of functions to versions that operate on higher types.  The idea comes
from ML and is used explicitly in Haskell, and I think some of the C++
standard template library can be explained in terms of functors.

For the mathematical concept of functors and how they relate to
programming (at least Haskell's version), see:

   http://en.wikibooks.org/Haskell/Category_theory


From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Thu Aug 20 05:25:48 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 20 Aug 2009 09:25:48 GMT
Subject: How to create functors?
References: 
	<7xab1vl0qf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
	<7xmy5uanlt.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 01:36:14 -0700, Paul Rubin wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano  writes:
>> As near as I can tell, a functor is just an object which is callable
>> like a function without actually being implemented as a function, e.g.:
> 
> No it's not anything like that either, at least as I'm used to the term
> in programming or in mathematics.  Maybe it's used other ways though. 

According to Wikipedia, functor can be used as a synonym for "function 
object":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Function_object

which is what I was thinking of. So it seems there are at least two 
meanings for the word, neither of which seems to apply to this thread :)



> As I'm used to it, it's a feature of certain static type systems.  The
> notion isn't that useful in Python 

I find the Haskell page entirely opaque and unintelligible. Well, perhaps 
not *entirely* opaque, but pretty close: it assumes a mathematical 
sophistication that I don't think I even had when I was getting my maths 
degree, let alone can remember two decades later. (Pity the poor VB 
coders wondering what Haskell is good for...) The Wikipedia page is a 
little better, but it's section on Examples is laughable -- the examples 
are as unintelligible to this reader as the description before them.


But let me try an example to see if I've got it right:


class Int2StrFunctor:
    def map1(self, n):
        if type(n) is not int:
            raise TypeError('argument must be an int')
        return "-"*n
    def map2(self, f):
        if type(f) is not type(lambda: None):
            raise TypeError('argument must be a function')
        # assume f takes an int, and returns another int
        def inner(n):
            return self.map1(f(n))
        return inner


The functor can take an int and return a string:

>>> F = Int2StrFunctor()  # F is a functor
>>> F.map1(3)
'---'

It can also take a function (of int -> int) and return a new function 
(int -> str):

>>> def myfunc(n):
...     return n+2
...
>>> f = F.map2(myfunc)
>>> f(3)
'-----'
>>> f(4)
'------'


There's nothing special about the methods map1() and map2(), I could call 
them anything I like, or even do this:


>>> def __call__(self, arg):
...     if type(arg) is int:
...             return self.map1(arg)
...     else:
...             return self.map2(arg)
...
>>> Int2StrFunctor.__call__ = __call__
>>>
>>> F(2)
'--'
>>> F(myfunc)(0)
'--'


There are some technical restrictions on functors, relating to the sorts 
of functions and types (strictly "categories") they can accept, 
presumably to make them mathematically well-behaved.


Have I got it correct?


-- 
Steven


From nitebirdz at sacredchaos.com  Thu Aug 20 05:46:34 2009
From: nitebirdz at sacredchaos.com (Nitebirdz)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 11:46:34 +0200
Subject: What file is foo in package bar in ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <20090820094633.GD7136@sevilla.sacredchaos.com>

On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 01:06:00AM +0200, Christian Heimes wrote:
> northof40 wrote:
>> Given an arbitary package is there some programmatic way to 'ask' what
>> file the method/function is implemented in ?
>
> Indeed, the inspect module contains several useful functions for the  
> job, for example
> http://docs.python.org/library/inspect.html#inspect.getfile
>

Stupid question from someone who ignores it all: since the OP is reading
code from an existing tree in order to learn from it, wouldn't it make
more sense to use something like Cscope?  Assuming it works with Python,
of course.  If it doesn't, is there a similar tool that can be used?  A
related question too is whether any of these tools actually help in an
object-oriented environment.  

http://cscope.sourceforge.net/

http://www.linux.com/archive/feature/114237



From enleverLesX_XXmcX at XmclavXeauX.com  Thu Aug 20 05:54:05 2009
From: enleverLesX_XXmcX at XmclavXeauX.com (Michel Claveau - MVP)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 11:54:05 +0200
Subject: difference between 2 arrays
References: 
Message-ID: <4a8d1d3f$0$23447$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr>

(envoy? via news:\\news.wanadoo.fr\comp.lang.python)


Hi!

Yes, the module sets is written, in doc, like "deprecated".
But: 
  - sets exist in Python 2.6 (& 2.5 or 2.4)
  - documentation of sets (module) is better tha, documentation of set (builtin) 

The best: read the documentaion of the module, and use the builtin...

@-salutations 
-- 
MCI 



From ashwin.u.rao at nokia.com  Thu Aug 20 06:02:26 2009
From: ashwin.u.rao at nokia.com (ashwin.u.rao at nokia.com)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 12:02:26 +0200
Subject: Zipimport leaks memory?
Message-ID: <6CC019B5D220A147932441E798B252B910B0193FEF@NOK-EUMSG-05.mgdnok.nokia.com>


Hi,

We are currently trying to identify and fix all the memory leaks by just doing Py_Initialize-PyRun_SimpleFile(some simple script)-Py_Finalize and found that there are around 70 malloc-ed blocks which are not freed. One of the significant contributor to this number is the 'files' object in ZipImporter.  I am not able to identify the reason for this leak and was wondering if anyone on this list would help me out here. 

So, here goes :

Since we have a zip file in our sys.path, this object is initialized and added to the zip_directory_cache dict during Py_Initialize. One point to note here is that there is no DECREF on the 'files' object after adding it to the zip_directory_cache dict.

When a module in a directory is imported(encoding.alias) then the reference count of 'files' is increased. When this module is unloaded during Py_Finalize-PyImport_Cleanup, the ref count of files object is decremented properly. So at the end of Py_Finalize the files object still has one reference count which is a result of it being an entry in the zip_directory_cache.

To summarize :

ZipImporter->files - zipimporter_init function:

Py_Initialize - 
Read files from zip - ref_count -1
Add files to zip_directory_cache - ref count - 2
Import some modules from different directory in zip - ref count - 3

Py_Finalze - 
PyImport_Cleanup - sub-directory - ref-count - 2
PyImport_Cleanup - main directory - ref-count - 1

So the reference count of 'files' is still 1 after Py_Finalize. The zip_directory_cache is the dict that has this 'files' object and this dict is added to the module during zipimport module initialization. This dict is destroyed during _PyModule_Clear(called by PyImport_Cleanup) but the 'files' object's reference count is not decremented. 

Please excuse me if I have misinterpreted the whole logic. Any pointers towards solving this would be great. 

Thank you.

~Ashwin



From iain at kandaba.com  Thu Aug 20 06:19:56 2009
From: iain at kandaba.com (Iain)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 03:19:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Polling a net address
Message-ID: <99ddf4e1-d327-4fb1-aee4-aa881de3b3af@d23g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>

Hi All,

I'm writing a system tray application for windows, and the app needs
to poll a remote site at a pre-defined interval, and then process any
data returned.

The GUI needs to remain responsive as this goes on, so the polling
needs to be done in the background. I've been looking into Twisted as
a way of achieving this, but can't seem to get anything to loop
successfully.

Does anyone have any pointers that they might be able to give me?

TIA.


From baaluaanand at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 06:24:15 2009
From: baaluaanand at gmail.com (baalu aanand)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 03:24:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: difference between raw_input() and input()
Message-ID: <3c91915d-bcb1-4ea9-9b37-6b30ea0588a0@e34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

     I have used both raw_input() and input() for a same input value.
But these gives different output.

     I have listed below what actually I have done

            >>> a = raw_input("===>")
                   ===> 023
            >>> a
                    '023'

     I have given the same value for the input() but it gives 19 as
result
            >>> a = input("===>")
                   ===>  023
            >>> a
                    19

  Is there anything hide within this. Please illustrate the difference
between raw_input() and input()

Thanks in advance
Baalu


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Thu Aug 20 06:49:42 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 03:49:42 -0700
Subject: difference between raw_input() and input()
In-Reply-To: <3c91915d-bcb1-4ea9-9b37-6b30ea0588a0@e34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
References: <3c91915d-bcb1-4ea9-9b37-6b30ea0588a0@e34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908200349i5e0a13aeq63252c162fbfe492@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 3:24 AM, baalu aanand wrote:
> Hi,
>
> ? ? I have used both raw_input() and input() for a same input value.
> But these gives different output.
>
> ? ? I have listed below what actually I have done
>
> ? ? ? ? ? ?>>> a = raw_input("===>")
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ===> 023
> ? ? ? ? ? ?>>> a
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?'023'
>
> ? ? I have given the same value for the input() but it gives 19 as
> result
> ? ? ? ? ? ?>>> a = input("===>")
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ===> ?023
> ? ? ? ? ? ?>>> a
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?19
>
> ?Is there anything hide within this. Please illustrate the difference
> between raw_input() and input()

input() === eval(raw_input())
eval("023") --> int("23", 8) --> 19 [an integer, not a string]

raw_input() /always/ returns a string.

Never use input() in Python 2.x. In Python 3, raw_input() was renamed
to input() because it's a better name and the old input() was hardly
ever used (correctly).

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From ashagow at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 06:50:27 2009
From: ashagow at gmail.com (Asha Gowda)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 16:20:27 +0530
Subject: pexpect on QNX platform
Message-ID: <375470f50908200350n57ce3e7csccd83ddad08e7de9@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I found that pexpect is available only for linux.
But we need to port to QNX, Is pexpect is available? If yes, where can I
find it.

Thanks,
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From maxthemouse at googlemail.com  Thu Aug 20 07:01:20 2009
From: maxthemouse at googlemail.com (MaxTheMouse)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 04:01:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: PIL and Python
References: 
	<9683190f-3c99-49d6-93d1-d8966d38d7a6@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 20, 10:23?am, catafest  wrote:
> On my photo jpg i have this :
>
> Image Type: jpeg (The JPEG image format)
> Width: 1224 pixels
> Height: 1632 pixels
> Camera Brand: Sony Ericsson
> Camera Model: W810i
> Date Taken: 2009:07:09 08:16:21
> Exposure Time: 1/19 sec.
> ISO Speed Rating: 320
> Flash Fired: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode.
> Metering Mode: Center-Weighted Average
> Software: R4EA031 ? ? prgCXC1250321_ORANGE_HN 4.5
>
> This is the data i want edit it to make some copyright for my site.

I don't know about PIL but you might want to try exif.py.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/exif-py/


From ndbecker2 at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 07:01:29 2009
From: ndbecker2 at gmail.com (Neal Becker)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 07:01:29 -0400
Subject: #elements of seq A in seq B
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

Jan Kaliszewski wrote:

> 20-08-2009 o 01:19:24 Neal Becker  wrote:
> 
>> What would be a time efficient way to count the number of occurrences of
>> elements of sequence A in sequence B?  (in this particular case, these
>> sequences are strings, if that matters).
> 
> If you mean: to count occurences of each element of A (separately) in B...
> 
> Hm, maybe something like this:
> 
>    # result as a dict {: , ...}
>    dict((element, B.count(element)) for element in A)
> 
> 
> If you mean: to count non overlaping occurences of string A in B
> -- simply:
> 
>    B.count(A)
> 
> 
> Regards,
> *j
> 

I meant #occurrences of characters from the set A in string B



From muhammadsalman712 at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 07:17:41 2009
From: muhammadsalman712 at gmail.com (Muhammad Salman)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 04:17:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: New Windows Mobile Smartphones from I-mate
Message-ID: 

Windows Mobile smart phone device manufacturer, i-mate has shown off
its latest models -the Ultimate 9502 and the Ultimate 8502.for other
details http://infomobilepk.blogspot.com


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Aug 20 08:05:12 2009
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:05:12 +0200
Subject: #elements of seq A in seq B
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

Neal Becker wrote:

> I meant #occurrences of characters from the set A in string B

If a contains "few" characters:

n = sum(b.count(c) for c in a)

If a contains "many" characters:

identity = "".join(map(chr, range(256)))
n = len(b) - len(b.translate(identity, a))

Peter




From ballacky13 at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 08:07:31 2009
From: ballacky13 at gmail.com (Yan Jian)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 20:07:31 +0800
Subject: Hi everyone, I get a problem when using binhex module
Message-ID: 

Below is what I copy from the Internet:

import binhex
import sys

infile = "in.txt"

binhex.binhex(infile, sys.stdout)

Every time I try to run this script, I get a message saying

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "D:\eclipse_workspace\encode\src\binhex.sample.py", line 6, in

    import binhex
  File "C:\Python25\lib\binhex.py", line 12, in 
    # easy interface should work "as expected" on any platform.
TypeError: 'module' object is not callable

Does anyone encounter similar situation. Thank you for your help?
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From jelleferinga at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 08:19:42 2009
From: jelleferinga at gmail.com (jelle)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 05:19:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: pypi category
Message-ID: 

Hi,

Would someone be able to inform me how a category can be added to the
pypy list of categories?
I'd like to add a CAD & Geometry category.
( I develop PythonOCC, wrappers for the OpenCASCADE CAD kernel, which
is why )

Thanks!

-jelle


From contact at xavierho.com  Thu Aug 20 08:20:32 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 22:20:32 +1000
Subject: Hi everyone, I get a problem when using binhex module
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908200520n697ae725v4e0a2abcc3a10c11@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 10:07 PM, Yan Jian  wrote:

>
> Does anyone encounter similar situation. Thank you for your help?
>

Yeah, in Python 3.1 I get this:

 Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "test.py", line 6, in 
    binhex.binhex(file, sys.stdout)
  File "c:\Python31\lib\binhex.py", line 228, in binhex
    ofp = BinHex(finfo, out)
  File "c:\Python31\lib\binhex.py", line 149, in __init__
    ofp.write(b'(This file must be converted with BinHex 4.0)\r\r:')
TypeError: write() argument 1 must be str, not bytes

Python 2.6.2 runs fine though:

:"QPZ,R4iG!"849K82j!%!*!&&3#3"1#$6A*bB@%Z$3T0FR*KB5iJ6A*bB@%ZY@%
!!!:

I never used binhex however, so someone else might have a better insight.

Cheers,
Xav
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From aaron.watters at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 08:21:54 2009
From: aaron.watters at gmail.com (Aaron Watters)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 05:21:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Data visualization in Python
References: 
Message-ID: <15325820-dae0-4ba4-b25a-d33e17908fde@p15g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 17, 3:10?pm, kj  wrote:
> I'm looking for a good Python package for visualizing
> scientific/statistical data. ?(FWIW, the OS I'm interested in is
> Mac OS X).

Please take a look at the amcharts embedding in WHIFF

    http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/myapp/amcharts/doc

WHIFF is a collection of support services for WSGI
applications which allows applications to be composed
by "dropping" dynamic pages into container directories.

    http://aaron.oirt.rutgers.edu/myapp/docs/W.intro

thanks, -- Aaron Watters

===
Sisyphus got ripped.


From andre.roberge at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 09:11:30 2009
From: andre.roberge at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9?=)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 06:11:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: IDLE is not as interactive as Maple
References: <7aa51a98-965c-4c74-a3b5-650140f1d589@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <399082f9-3765-46dc-b71e-618e75256cf9@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 20, 12:22?am, laser  wrote:
> In the future, will Python provide programe enviroment like Maple
> does?

A quick, flip answer: perhaps if you design one?  Tools for Python are
designed by people scratching an itch.

That being said, have a look at reinteract:
http://www.reinteract.org/trac/wiki/Tutorial/Introduction


> In Maple, you can remove anything unneeded in the editor. And
> the code execution order are not necessary in one direction. You can
> run any command line on the screen by
> push Enter key. These functions gave a lot of flaxibility for users to
> start with programming something.

Andr?



From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Thu Aug 20 09:29:45 2009
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 09:29:45 -0400
Subject: IDLE is not as interactive as Maple
In-Reply-To: <7aa51a98-965c-4c74-a3b5-650140f1d589@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
References: <7aa51a98-965c-4c74-a3b5-650140f1d589@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 11:22 PM, laser wrote:
> In the future, will Python provide programe enviroment like Maple
> does? In Maple, you can remove anything unneeded in the editor. And
> the code execution order are not necessary in one direction. You can
> run any command line on the screen by
> push Enter key. These functions gave a lot of flaxibility for users to
> start with programming something.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

Maple is a very expensive IDE that happens to have a language that
goes with it. Python is a language that happens to come with a free
text editor/integrated shell. For languages like Mathematica and
Maple, the IDE is everything- you almost never use the language
without the integrated IDE. Python focuses more on language features.
IDLE is not supposed to be a great editor on the level of Visual
Studio or Maple, it's supposed to be a convenient way to run your code
for people who are scared of the command line. I would venture a guess
that very few people on this list use IDLE for their coding. Based on
previous answers to questions, most people use Eclipse/PyDev,
Netbeans, Wing, Komodo, emacs, and vim. Wing and Komodo are the only
Python-specific IDEs on that list and neither of them are free (though
the have stripped-down free versions). If you want a better editor,
use one of those.


From haricibi83 at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 09:44:52 2009
From: haricibi83 at gmail.com (hari)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 06:44:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python libexpat and EXPAT are same/Different?
Message-ID: 

Hi all,

Am very new to XML, I have a query, Does  Python libexpat and EXPAT
are same or they are diffrent?

Thanks in advance.

Regards,
Hari


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Thu Aug 20 10:05:21 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 16:05:21 +0200
Subject: Python libexpat and EXPAT are same/Different?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4a8d5821$0$30236$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net>

hari wrote:
> Am very new to XML, I have a query, Does  Python libexpat and EXPAT
> are same or they are diffrent?

Depends on what you mean with "EXPAT". Python's expat module that you can
find in the standard library is the well known non-validating XML parser
originally written by James Clark.

BTW, if you are new to XML and want to use it in Python, you might want to
start with the xml.etree package.

Stefan


From jelleferinga at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 10:10:26 2009
From: jelleferinga at gmail.com (jelle)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 07:10:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: pypi category
References: 
Message-ID: 

The pypi list of categories, sorry...


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Thu Aug 20 10:25:59 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 07:25:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: IDLE is not as interactive as Maple
References: <7aa51a98-965c-4c74-a3b5-650140f1d589@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On 19 Aug, 20:22, laser  wrote:
> In the future, will Python provide programe enviroment like Maple
> does?

You might be looking for SAGE.

http://www.sagemath.org/


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Aug 20 10:54:04 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 20 Aug 2009 14:54:04 GMT
Subject: difference between raw_input() and input()
References: <3c91915d-bcb1-4ea9-9b37-6b30ea0588a0@e34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <029d53bb$0$25987$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 03:24:15 -0700, baalu aanand wrote:

> Hi,
> 
>      I have used both raw_input() and input() for a same input value.
> But these gives different output.
> 
>      I have listed below what actually I have done
> 
>             >>> a = raw_input("===>")
>                    ===> 023
>             >>> a
>                     '023'
> 
>      I have given the same value for the input() but it gives 19 as
> result
>             >>> a = input("===>")
>                    ===>  023
>             >>> a
>                     19
> 
>   Is there anything hide within this. Please illustrate the difference
> between raw_input() and input()


Did you look them up in the documentation?

Did you try the interactive help?

help(input)
help(raw_input)



Perhaps you could try some further experiments:


>>> raw_input()
hello world
'hello world'
>>> input()
hello world
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
  File "", line 1
    hello world
             ^
SyntaxError: unexpected EOF while parsing


Does that give you a hint as to what is happening?

How about this?

>>> 07
7
>>> 08
  File "", line 1
    08
     ^
SyntaxError: invalid token
>>> 010
8
>>> oct(8)
010




-- 
Steven


From davea at ieee.org  Thu Aug 20 11:08:07 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 11:08:07 -0400
Subject: Hi everyone, I get a problem when using binhex module
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A8D66D7.4070006@ieee.org>

Yan Jian wrote:
> Below is what I copy from the Internet:
>
> import binhex
> import sys
>
> infile = "in.txt"
>
> binhex.binhex(infile, sys.stdout)
>
> Every time I try to run this script, I get a message saying
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "D:\eclipse_workspace\encode\src\binhex.sample.py", line 6, in
> 
>     import binhex
>   File "C:\Python25\lib\binhex.py", line 12, in 
>     # easy interface should work "as expected" on any platform.
> TypeError: 'module' object is not callable
>
> Does anyone encounter similar situation. Thank you for your help?
>
>   
First question:   Are you running Python2.5 ?  And do you actually have 
it installed in c:\Python25 directory?

Do you in fact have 5 blank lines in front of the "import binhex" line?

Assuming yes for all of those, the only cause I can figure for that 
particular error string is that  binhex.pyc is out of synch with 
binhex.py.   To test that theory, try deleting it (in general that means 
renaming it temporarily, so you could restore it if I'm wrong), and 
running again.

I would also add the lines:
   import sys
   print  sys.version

in front of the import, just to make sure you're running what you think 
you are.  And then I'd get a console prompt, change directory to

D:\eclipse_workspace\encode\src\binhex

and run  sample.py  from that command prompt.

Compare the two version strings, and see if anything's different in the 
two error messages.

DaveA


From manu3d at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 11:16:51 2009
From: manu3d at gmail.com (Emanuele D'Arrigo)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 08:16:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Executing untrusted code
References: <137d4d96-c481-4806-a8cf-2904e89c78ae@l35g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Sorry for digging this back from the grave.
I've had to chew on it for a little while.

On Aug 8, 1:40?am, Nobody  wrote:
> If you want to support restricted execution within a language, it
> has to be built into the language from day one. Trying to bolt it > on later is a fool's errand.

Fair enough. In this context, let's say I do this:

import __builtin__
import imp
originalBuiltins = imp.new_module("OriginalBuiltins")

def readOnlyOpen(filename):
    return originalBuiltins.open(filename, "r")

__builtin__.open = readOnlyOpen

exec(anUntrustedString, {})

In what ways would the untrusted string be able to obtain the
original, built-in open function and open a file for writing?

Manu



From lists at cheimes.de  Thu Aug 20 11:26:33 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 17:26:33 +0200
Subject: Executing untrusted code
In-Reply-To: 
References: <137d4d96-c481-4806-a8cf-2904e89c78ae@l35g2000vba.googlegroups.com>	
	
Message-ID: <4A8D6B29.3040800@cheimes.de>

Emanuele D'Arrigo write:
> In what ways would the untrusted string be able to obtain the
> original, built-in open function and open a file for writing?

Yes, if you know some tricks:

>>> [cls for cls in object.__subclasses__() if cls.__name__ == 'file'][0]



Christian


From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 11:27:24 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 08:27:24 -0700
Subject: Executing untrusted code
In-Reply-To: 
References: <137d4d96-c481-4806-a8cf-2904e89c78ae@l35g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

They could, of course, use the file object constructor directly, e.g.:
	f = file("/etc/passwd", "w")

On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 08:16:51 -0700, Emanuele D'Arrigo   
wrote:

> Sorry for digging this back from the grave.
> I've had to chew on it for a little while.
>
> On Aug 8, 1:40?am, Nobody  wrote:
>> If you want to support restricted execution within a language, it
>> has to be built into the language from day one. Trying to bolt it > on  
>> later is a fool's errand.
>
> Fair enough. In this context, let's say I do this:
>
> import __builtin__
> import imp
> originalBuiltins = imp.new_module("OriginalBuiltins")
>
> def readOnlyOpen(filename):
>     return originalBuiltins.open(filename, "r")
>
> __builtin__.open = readOnlyOpen
>
> exec(anUntrustedString, {})
>
> In what ways would the untrusted string be able to obtain the
> original, built-in open function and open a file for writing?
>
> Manu
>



-- 
Rami Chowdhury
"Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --  
Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)


From narkewoody at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 12:06:55 2009
From: narkewoody at gmail.com (Steven Woody)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 00:06:55 +0800
Subject: line completion
Message-ID: 

Hi,
I wrote a program that takes some user input.  Many inputs are quit often
used by user, so when a user launch the program, and type in "The Sha",  he
wants to get "wshank Redemption" displayed automatically in reversed color
(black text on white background) along his cursor.  When he decided to use
"The Shawshank Redemption", he just press the enter key, otherwise, he type
in other words anyway.

My question is, is there any module that can easy the implementation of this
feature?  Thanks.



-- 
Life is the only flaw in an otherwise perfect nonexistence
   -- Schopenhauer

narke
public key at http://subkeys.pgp.net:11371 (narkewoody at gmail.com)
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From inigoserna at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 12:36:05 2009
From: inigoserna at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?ScOxaWdvIFNlcm5h?=)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 18:36:05 +0200
Subject: ncurses getch & unicode (was: decoding keyboard input when using 
	curses)
Message-ID: <65a1d6f80908200936g18b235fcw49d0047168cf9548@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I have the same problem mentioned in
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/c70c80cd9bc7bac6?pli=1some
months ago.

Python 2.6 program which uses ncurses module in a terminal configured to use
UTF-8 encoding.

When trying to get input from keyboard, a non-ascii character (like ?) is
returned as 2 integers < 255, needing 2 calls to getch method to get both.
These two integers \xc3 \xa7 forms the utf-8 encoded representation of ?
character.

ncurses get_wch documentation states the function should return an unique
integer > 255 with the ordinal representation of that unicode char encoded
in UTF-8, \xc3a7.


[Please, read the link above, it explains the issue much better that what I
could do.]


Any idea or update on this?


Thanks,
I?igo Serna

PS: my system is a Linux Fedora 11 x86_64. Same happens on console,
gnome-terminal or xterm.
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From israelu at elbit.co.il  Thu Aug 20 12:41:14 2009
From: israelu at elbit.co.il (iu2)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 09:41:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Dictionary from a list
References: 
	<7f368jF2it5a5U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	
	 
	
Message-ID: <04452fa5-b76f-4e5d-93f3-6348ca466bc8@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 20, 9:10?am, Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
> Jan Kaliszewski wrote:
> > 20-08-2009 o 02:05:57 Jan Kaliszewski  wrote:
>
> >> Or probably better:
>
> >> ? ? ?from itertools import islice, izip
> >> ? ? ?dict(izip(islice(li, 0, None, 2), islice(li, 1, None, 2)))
>
> > Or similarly, perhaps more readable:
>
> > ? ? ?iterator = iter(li)
> > ? ? ?dict((iterator.next(), iterator.next()) for i in xrange(len(li)/2))
>
> I just can't stop posting this one:
>
> >>> from itertools import izip
> >>> it = iter([1,2,3,4,5,6])
> >>> dict(izip(it, it))
>
> {1: 2, 3: 4, 5: 6}
>
> I really tried, but yours drove me over the edge.
>
> Peter

Nice.
(but looks like stepping towards the dark side ...  :-)

I also liked this one:
iterator = iter(li)
dict((iterator.next(), iterator.next()) for i in xrange(len(li)/2))

which inspired me to do something quite similar:

a=range(1, 11)
>>> a
[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10]
>>> dict([[a.pop(0), a.pop(0)] for i in range(len(a)/2)])
{1: 2, 3: 4, 9: 10, 5: 6, 7: 8}


Thanks


From tim.arnold at sas.com  Thu Aug 20 13:21:34 2009
From: tim.arnold at sas.com (Tim Arnold)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 13:21:34 -0400
Subject: 2.6 windows install
Message-ID: 

Hi,
I installed python2.6 to a netapp device. I can use it from my local windows 
machine (XP). But others cannot use it from their pcs.

They get this response
"The system cannot execute the specified program.".

If they double click on python.exe, they get a window

with: This application has failed to start because the application

configuration is incorrect.  Reinstalling the application may fix this

problem.

When I installed it I didn't see any mention of an 'administrators' install, 
it just installed. The permissions on the directories where it installed are 
set wide-open for everyone.

Any ideas on what I'm missing here?

thanks,
--Tim Arnold




From dullrich at sprynet.com  Thu Aug 20 14:13:35 2009
From: dullrich at sprynet.com (David C Ullrich)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 13:13:35 -0500
Subject: Silly question
Message-ID: 

I just noticed that

  sequence[i:j:k]

syntax in a post here. When did this happen?

(I'm just curious whether it existed in 1.5.x or not.
If so I'm stupid - otoh if it was introduced in 2.x
I'm just slow...)



From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Thu Aug 20 14:36:35 2009
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:36:35 -0400
Subject: Silly question
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 2:13 PM, David C Ullrich wrote:
> I just noticed that
>
> ?sequence[i:j:k]
>
> syntax in a post here. When did this happen?
>
> (I'm just curious whether it existed in 1.5.x or not.
> If so I'm stupid - otoh if it was introduced in 2.x
> I'm just slow...)
>

Well, I got some good news and some bad news. According to the docs,
it existed in 1.4 but the built-in sequences didn't support it until
2.3. It's not used that often anyway so you haven't been missing much.

http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.5/whatsnew/section-slices.html


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Aug 20 14:38:09 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 20 Aug 2009 18:38:09 GMT
Subject: Executing untrusted code
References: <137d4d96-c481-4806-a8cf-2904e89c78ae@l35g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <029d8840$0$25987$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 08:16:51 -0700, Emanuele D'Arrigo wrote:

> Fair enough. In this context, let's say I do this:
> 
> import __builtin__
> import imp
> originalBuiltins = imp.new_module("OriginalBuiltins")
> 
> def readOnlyOpen(filename):
>     return originalBuiltins.open(filename, "r")
> 
> __builtin__.open = readOnlyOpen


Have you actually tested this? I don't think it works the way you think 
it does.

>>> import __builtin__
>>> import imp
>>> originalBuiltins = imp.new_module("OriginalBuiltins")
>>> originalBuiltins.open
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'open'


So your strategy fails to provide read-only file access.

But moving on...

> In what ways would the untrusted string be able to obtain the original,
> built-in open function and open a file for writing?

That's hardly even a challenge.

>>> __builtin__.open = readOnlyOpen
>>> anUntrustedString = """import __builtin__
... reload(__builtin__)
... open('junk', 'w').write('a')
... """
>>> exec(anUntrustedString, {})
>>> open('junk').read()
'a'


Not only have I broken your "read only" open within the call to exec, but 
I've broken it outside as well. With a little bit more effort, I could 
probably save and restore the open, so that my untrusted string could 
write to files inside the exec(), but code outside of the exec() would 
still see the readOnlyOpen.




-- 
Steven


From duncan.booth at invalid.invalid  Thu Aug 20 14:41:34 2009
From: duncan.booth at invalid.invalid (Duncan Booth)
Date: 20 Aug 2009 18:41:34 GMT
Subject: Silly question
References: 
Message-ID: 

David C Ullrich  wrote:

> I just noticed that
> 
>   sequence[i:j:k]
> 
> syntax in a post here. When did this happen?
> 
> (I'm just curious whether it existed in 1.5.x or not.
> If so I'm stupid - otoh if it was introduced in 2.x
> I'm just slow...)
> 
> 
Googling for 'python extended slice' returns this as the first hit:

http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.5/whatsnew/section-slices.html

> 15 Extended Slices
> 
> Ever since Python 1.4, the slicing syntax has supported an optional
> third ``step'' or ``stride'' argument. For example, these are all
> legal Python syntax: L[1:10:2], L[:-1:1], L[::-1]. This was added to
> Python at the request of the developers of Numerical Python, which
> uses the third argument extensively. However, Python's built-in list,
> tuple, and string sequence types have never supported this feature,
> raising a TypeError if you tried it. Michael Hudson contributed a
> patch to fix this shortcoming. 

So extended slices have existed since Python 1.4, but builtin types only
started to support them from 2.3. 


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Aug 20 14:42:24 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 20 Aug 2009 18:42:24 GMT
Subject: Executing untrusted code
References: <137d4d96-c481-4806-a8cf-2904e89c78ae@l35g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <029d893f$0$25987$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 08:16:51 -0700, Emanuele D'Arrigo wrote:

> In what ways would the untrusted string be able to obtain the original,
> built-in open function and open a file for writing?

On a related topic, you should read this post here:

http://tav.espians.com/a-challenge-to-break-python-security.html


-- 
Steven


From 71david at libero.it  Thu Aug 20 15:06:43 2009
From: 71david at libero.it (David)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 21:06:43 +0200
Subject: Annoying octal notation
Message-ID: <2h2hwo918umw.1ihpdwjimzge8$.dlg@40tude.net>

Hi all,

Is there some magic to make the 2.x CPython interpreter to ignore the
annoying octal notation?
I'd really like 012 to be "12" and not "10". 

If I want an octal I'll use oct()! 

"Explicit is better than implicit..."

TIA
David


From info at wingware.com  Thu Aug 20 15:21:42 2009
From: info at wingware.com (Wingware)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 15:21:42 -0400
Subject: ANN:  Wing IDE 3.2 released
Message-ID: <4A8DA246.9030908@wingware.com>

Hi,

Wingware has released version 3.2.0 final of Wing IDE, our integrated
development environment for the Python programming language.

*Release Highlights*

This release includes the following new features:

* Support for Python 3.0 and 3.1
* Rewritten version control integration with support for Subversion, CVS,
   Bazaar, git, Mercurial, and Perforce (*)
* Added 64-bit Debian, RPM, and tar file installers for Linux
* File management in Project view (**)
* Auto-completion in the editor obtains completion data from live runtime
   when the debugger is active (**)
* Perspectives: Create and save named GUI layouts and optionally automatically
   transition when debugging is started (*)
* Improved support for Cython and Pyrex (*.pyx files)
* Added key binding documentation to the manual
* Added Restart Debugging item in Debug menu and tool bar (**)

(*)'d items are available in Wing IDE Professional only.
(**)'d items are available in Wing IDE Personal and Professional only.

The release also contains many other minor features and bug fixes; see the
change log for details:  http://wingware.com/pub/wingide/3.2.0/CHANGELOG.txt

*Downloads*

Wing IDE Professional and Wing IDE Personal are commercial software and
require a license to run. A free trial license can be obtained directly from
the product when launched.  Wing IDE 101 can be used free of charge.

Wing IDE Pro 3.2.0        http://wingware.com/downloads/wingide/3.2

Wing IDE Personal 3.2.0   http://wingware.com/downloads/wingide-personal/3.2

Wing IDE 101 3.2.0        http://wingware.com/downloads/wingide-101/3.2

*About Wing IDE*

Wing IDE is an integrated development environment for the Python programming
language.  It provides powerful debugging, editing, code intelligence,
testing, version control, and search capabilities that reduce development and
debugging time, cut down on coding errors, and make it easier to understand
and navigate Python code.

Wing IDE is available in three product levels:  Wing IDE Professional is
the full-featured Python IDE, Wing IDE Personal offers a reduced feature
set at a low price, and Wing IDE 101 is a free simplified version designed
for teaching entry level programming courses with Python.

System requirements are Windows 2000 or later, OS X 10.3.9 or later for PPC or
Intel (requires X11 Server), or a recent Linux system (either 32 or 64 bit).
Wing IDE 3.2 supports Python versions 2.0.x through 3.1.x.

*Purchasing and Upgrading*

Wing 3.2 is a free upgrade for all Wing IDE 3.0 and 3.1 users. Any 2.x license
sold after May 2nd 2006 is free to upgrade; others cost 1/2 the normal price
to upgrade.

Upgrade a 2.x license:     https://wingware.com/store/upgrade

Purchase a 3.x license:    https://wingware.com/store/purchase

-- 

The Wingware Team
Wingware | Python IDE
Advancing Software Development

www.wingware.com



From rui.vapps at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 15:23:40 2009
From: rui.vapps at gmail.com (Ray)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 12:23:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: thread and win32com.client problem
Message-ID: <970c1cee-71ac-4b01-91ce-8ca2014570f8@p9g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

Hi, I have a problem with thread and win32com.client
running python 2.5 on vista (activestate python)

import win32com.client, thread
def child(test):
        problem=win32com.client.Dispatch("WScript.Shell")
        print 'hello from thread', test
def parent():
        i=0
        while 1:
                i+=1
                thread.start_new(child,('abc',))
                if raw_input()=='q': break
parent()

above codes will give me error when I run it.
but if without the line
problem=win32com.client.Dispatch("WScript.Shell")
it just works fine.


errors are:

Unhandled exception in thread started by 
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Users\Test\Desktop\Test\test_thread.py", line 3, in child
    problem=win32com.client.Dispatch("WScript.Shell")
  File "C:\Python25\lib\site-packages\win32com\client\__init__.py",
line 95, in Dispatch
    dispatch, userName = dynamic._GetGoodDispatchAndUserName
(dispatch,userName,clsctx)
  File "C:\Python25\lib\site-packages\win32com\client\dynamic.py",
line 98, in _GetGoodDispatchAndUserName
    return (_GetGoodDispatch(IDispatch, clsctx), userName)
  File "C:\Python25\lib\site-packages\win32com\client\dynamic.py",
line 78, in _GetGoodDispatch
    IDispatch = pythoncom.CoCreateInstance(IDispatch, None, clsctx,
pythoncom.IID_IDispatch)
pywintypes.com_error: (-2147221008, 'CoInitialize has not been
called.', None, None)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Users\Test\Desktop\Test\test_thread.py", line 11, in

    parent()
  File "C:\Users\Test\Desktop\Test\test_thread.py", line 10, in parent
    if raw_input()=='q': break


Thanks for any help.


From dullrich at sprynet.com  Thu Aug 20 15:31:30 2009
From: dullrich at sprynet.com (David C Ullrich)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:31:30 -0500
Subject: Silly question
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 18:41:34 +0000, Duncan Booth wrote:

> David C Ullrich  wrote:
> 
>> I just noticed that
>> 
>>   sequence[i:j:k]
>> 
>> syntax in a post here. When did this happen?
>> 
>> (I'm just curious whether it existed in 1.5.x or not. If so I'm stupid
>> - otoh if it was introduced in 2.x I'm just slow...)
>> 
>> 
> Googling for 'python extended slice' returns this as the first hit:
> 
> http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.5/whatsnew/section-slices.html
> 
>> 15 Extended Slices
>> 
>> Ever since Python 1.4, the slicing syntax has supported an optional
>> third ``step'' or ``stride'' argument. For example, these are all legal
>> Python syntax: L[1:10:2], L[:-1:1], L[::-1]. This was added to Python
>> at the request of the developers of Numerical Python, which uses the
>> third argument extensively. However, Python's built-in list, tuple, and
>> string sequence types have never supported this feature, raising a
>> TypeError if you tried it. Michael Hudson contributed a patch to fix
>> this shortcoming.
> 
> So extended slices have existed since Python 1.4, but builtin types only
> started to support them from 2.3.

Fine (I knew they existed in Numerical Python way back when...)




From dullrich at sprynet.com  Thu Aug 20 15:33:05 2009
From: dullrich at sprynet.com (David C Ullrich)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:33:05 -0500
Subject: Silly question
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:36:35 -0400, Benjamin Kaplan wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 2:13 PM, David C Ullrich
> wrote:
>> I just noticed that
>>
>> ?sequence[i:j:k]
>>
>> syntax in a post here. When did this happen?
>>
>> (I'm just curious whether it existed in 1.5.x or not. If so I'm stupid
>> - otoh if it was introduced in 2.x I'm just slow...)
>>
>>
> Well, I got some good news and some bad news. According to the docs, it
> existed in 1.4 but the built-in sequences didn't support it until 2.3.
> It's not used that often anyway so you haven't been missing much.

So I'm slow, fine. (There were several times when I was using 1.5.3
and wished they were there - transposing matrices, etc.)

> 
> http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.5/whatsnew/section-slices.html



From rui.vapps at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 15:53:39 2009
From: rui.vapps at gmail.com (Ray)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 12:53:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: thread and win32com.client problem
References: <970c1cee-71ac-4b01-91ce-8ca2014570f8@p9g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <319b2ae1-276b-41af-9fd9-7086353ed193@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

I already find the way to fix it. :-)


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 15:55:47 2009
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Fuzzyman)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 12:55:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ANN: discover 0.3.0 released, automatic test discovery for unittest
Message-ID: <096a6bb5-9b09-4d5c-86cf-ba826cf3a39a@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

The discover module is a backport of the automatic test discovery from
the unittest module in Python-trunk (what will become Python 2.7 and
3.2).

The discover module should work on versions of Python 2.4 upwards:

* discover module on PyPI: http://pypi.python.org/pypi/discover

The discover module can be used to run all, or a subset, of your
unittest based tests automatically from the command line. See the PyPI
page for details.

Version 0.3.0 has two new features:

* Failing to import a file (e.g. due to a syntax error) no longer
halts discovery but is reported as an error.
* Discovery will not attempt to import test files whose names are not
valid Python identifiers, even if they match the pattern.


From aaron.hildebrandt at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 16:02:57 2009
From: aaron.hildebrandt at gmail.com (Aaron Scott)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 13:02:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Problem with arrays in a recursive class function
Message-ID: <190378bc-f095-46fa-9104-cb94fa09698f@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

I have a list of nodes, and I need to find a path from one node to
another. The nodes each have a list of nodes they are connected to,
set up like this:



class Node(object):
	def __init__(self, connectedNodes):
		self.connectedNodes = connectedNodes

nodes = {
	1: Node([4]),
	2: Node([3]),
	3: Node([2, 4, 5]),
	4: Node([1, 6, 3]),
	5: Node([3, 7]),
	6: Node([4, 9]),
	7: Node([5, 8]),
	8: Node([7, 9]),
	9: Node([6, 8])
}



I made a quick brute-force pathfinder to solve it (in this case, a
path from node 1 to node 9). Here it is:



class PathFind(object):
	def __init__(self, source, destination):
		self.source = source
		self.destination = destination
		self.solved = []
	def Search(self):
		self.PathFind([self.source])
		if self.solved:
			print "Solutions: "
			for i in self.solved:
				print "\t" + str(i)
		else:
			print "Couldn't solve."
	def PathFind(self, trail):
		location = trail[-1]
		if location == self.destination:
			self.solved.append(trail)
			print "Solution found: " + str(trail)
		else:
			possibilities = []
			for i in nodes[location].connectedNodes:
				if not i in trail: possibilities.append(i)
			for i in possibilities:
				trail.append(i)
				self.PathFind(trail[:])
			if not possibilities:
				print "Dead end: " + str(trail)

finder = PathFind(1, 9)
finder.Search()



Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be giving me the result I was after.
This is the output:



Solution found: [1, 4, 6, 9]
Dead end: [1, 4, 6, 3, 2]
Solution found: [1, 4, 6, 3, 2, 5, 7, 8, 9]
Solutions:
        [1, 4, 6, 9]
        [1, 4, 6, 3, 2, 5, 7, 8, 9]



The problem is the array trail[], which seems to survive from instance
to instance of PathFind(). I thought that by calling self.PathFind
(trail[:]), I was creating a new copy of trail[], but obviously
something isn't running like I expected. Is there something I'm
misunderstanding here, or is there just a stupid bug in my code I
haven't caught?


From dfnsonfsduifb at gmx.de  Thu Aug 20 16:24:24 2009
From: dfnsonfsduifb at gmx.de (Johannes Bauer)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 22:24:24 +0200
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: <2h2hwo918umw.1ihpdwjimzge8$.dlg@40tude.net>
References: <2h2hwo918umw.1ihpdwjimzge8$.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <7f5pohF2k259vU1@mid.dfncis.de>

David schrieb:

> If I want an octal I'll use oct()! 
> 
> "Explicit is better than implicit..."

A leading "0" *is* explicit.

Implicit would be when some functions would interpret a "0" prefix as
octal and others wouldn't.

Regards,
Johannes

-- 
"Meine Gegenklage gegen dich lautet dann auf bewusste Verlogenheit,
verl?sterung von Gott, Bibel und mir und bewusster Blasphemie."
         -- Prophet und Vision?r Hans Joss aka HJP in de.sci.physik
                         <48d8bf1d$0$7510$5402220f at news.sunrise.ch>


From lists at cheimes.de  Thu Aug 20 16:35:48 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 22:35:48 +0200
Subject: thread and win32com.client problem
In-Reply-To: <319b2ae1-276b-41af-9fd9-7086353ed193@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: <970c1cee-71ac-4b01-91ce-8ca2014570f8@p9g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<319b2ae1-276b-41af-9fd9-7086353ed193@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A8DB3A4.4030800@cheimes.de>

Ray wrote:
> I already find the way to fix it. :-)

I consider it good style when people describe their solution to a 
problem, too. Other Python users may run into the same issue someday. :)

Christian


From sajmikins at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 16:37:33 2009
From: sajmikins at gmail.com (Simon Forman)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 13:37:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: <2h2hwo918umw.1ihpdwjimzge8$.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <6a523329-3287-4271-ba37-7be450cfc5f6@d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 20, 3:06?pm, David <71da... at libero.it> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Is there some magic to make the 2.x CPython interpreter to ignore the
> annoying octal notation?

No.  You would have to modify and recompile the interpreter. This is
not exactly trivial, see "How to Change Python's Grammar"
http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0306/

However, see "Integer Literal Support and Syntax" http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3127/

(Basically in 2.6 and onwards you can use 0oNNN notation.)

> I'd really like 012 to be "12" and not "10".
>
> If I want an octal I'll use oct()!

But that gives you a string, you're asking about literals.



From luk.art.q1 at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 16:43:37 2009
From: luk.art.q1 at gmail.com (artur lukowicz)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 22:43:37 +0200
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: 

6344a24de14243c76060bedd42f79bc302679dad
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

From aaron.hildebrandt at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 16:57:07 2009
From: aaron.hildebrandt at gmail.com (Aaron Scott)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 13:57:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Problem with arrays in a recursive class function
References: <190378bc-f095-46fa-9104-cb94fa09698f@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5f185928-131e-4718-bbb2-a775157d966c@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

Never mind -- ditched the attempt and implemented Dijkstra.


From MatzeGuentert at gmx.de  Thu Aug 20 17:08:34 2009
From: MatzeGuentert at gmx.de (Matthias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=FCntert?=)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 23:08:34 +0200
Subject: incrementing string/hex value from file and write back
Message-ID: <1250802514.3331.0.camel@celsius>

Hello guys

I would like to read a hex number from an ASCII file, increment it and
write it back. 
How can this be performed? 

I have tried several approaches:

my file serial.txt contains: 0C 

----------------------------------
f = open('serial.txt', 'r')
val = f.read()
val = val.encode('hex')
print val
----------------------------------
--> 3043 

----------------------------------
f = open('serial.txt', 'r')
val = f.read()  
print val
val = val+1
----------------------------------
--> TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'int' objects

----------------------------------
f = open('serial.txt', 'rb')
val = f.read()
val = val + 1
----------------------------------
--> TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'int' objects


hm....



From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 17:18:28 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:18:28 -0700
Subject: incrementing string/hex value from file and write back
In-Reply-To: <1250802514.3331.0.camel@celsius>
References: <1250802514.3331.0.camel@celsius>
Message-ID: 

> val = val.encode('hex')

That's the crucial line -- it's returning a new integer, which you are  
re-binding to val. If you then did:

   val = val + 1

you'd be fine, and could then write val back to your file :-)

On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:08:34 -0700, Matthias G?ntert  
 wrote:

> Hello guys
>
> I would like to read a hex number from an ASCII file, increment it and
> write it back.
> How can this be performed?
>
> I have tried several approaches:
>
> my file serial.txt contains: 0C
>
> ----------------------------------
> f = open('serial.txt', 'r')
> val = f.read()
> val = val.encode('hex')
> print val
> ----------------------------------
> --> 3043
>
> ----------------------------------
> f = open('serial.txt', 'r')
> val = f.read()
> print val
> val = val+1
> ----------------------------------
> --> TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'int' objects
>
> ----------------------------------
> f = open('serial.txt', 'rb')
> val = f.read()
> val = val + 1
> ----------------------------------
> --> TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'int' objects
>
>
> hm....
>



-- 
Rami Chowdhury
"Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --  
Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)


From sajmikins at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 17:35:12 2009
From: sajmikins at gmail.com (Simon Forman)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:35:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: incrementing string/hex value from file and write back
References: 
Message-ID: <6d707639-7d1b-44a3-b4a5-3a0cbf1240fc@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 20, 5:08?pm, Matthias G?ntert  wrote:
> Hello guys
>
> I would like to read a hex number from an ASCII file, increment it and
> write it back.
> How can this be performed?
>
> I have tried several approaches:
>
> my file serial.txt contains: 0C
>
> ----------------------------------
> f = open('serial.txt', 'r')
> val = f.read()
> val = val.encode('hex')
> print val
> ----------------------------------
> --> 3043
>
> ----------------------------------
> f = open('serial.txt', 'r')
> val = f.read() ?
> print val
> val = val+1
> ----------------------------------
> --> TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'int' objects
>
> ----------------------------------
> f = open('serial.txt', 'rb')
> val = f.read()
> val = val + 1
> ----------------------------------
> --> TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'int' objects
>
> hm....


Check this out:

In [1]: val = '0C'

In [2]: val.encode('hex')
Out[2]: '3043'

That's not what you want. Try this:

In [3]: int(val, 16)
Out[3]: 12

And to convert an int to a hex string.

In [4]: '%x' % 13
Out[4]: 'd'

The interpreter has a help() function that gives you quick access to
information about python objects:

>>> help(str.encode)
Help on method_descriptor:

encode(...)
    S.encode([encoding[,errors]]) -> object

    Encodes S using the codec registered for encoding. encoding
defaults
    to the default encoding. errors may be given to set a different
error
    handling scheme. Default is 'strict' meaning that encoding errors
raise
    a UnicodeEncodeError. Other possible values are 'ignore',
'replace' and
    'xmlcharrefreplace' as well as any other name registered with
    codecs.register_error that is able to handle UnicodeEncodeErrors.

>>> help(int)
Help on class int in module __builtin__:

class int(object)
 |  int(x[, base]) -> integer
 |
 |  Convert a string or number to an integer, if possible.  A floating
point
 |  argument will be truncated towards zero (this does not include a
string
 |  representation of a floating point number!)  When converting a
string, use
 |  the optional base.  It is an error to supply a base when
converting a
 |  non-string. If the argument is outside the integer range a long
object
 |  will be returned instead.
 |
 |  Methods defined here:
 |
...


Unfortunately you can't use it on the '%' string formatting
operator...

>>> help(%)
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

So here's a link to the docs:
http://docs.python.org/library/stdtypes.html#string-formatting-operations


HTH,
~Simon


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Aug 20 17:36:37 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 22:36:37 +0100
Subject: incrementing string/hex value from file and write back
In-Reply-To: <1250802514.3331.0.camel@celsius>
References: <1250802514.3331.0.camel@celsius>
Message-ID: 

Matthias G?ntert wrote:
> Hello guys
> 
> I would like to read a hex number from an ASCII file, increment it and
> write it back. 
> How can this be performed? 
> 
> I have tried several approaches:
> 
> my file serial.txt contains: 0C 
> 
> ----------------------------------
> f = open('serial.txt', 'r')
> val = f.read()
> val = val.encode('hex')
val = int(val, 16) + 1
f.write('%02X' % val)
> print val
> ----------------------------------
> --> 3043 
> 
> ----------------------------------
> f = open('serial.txt', 'r')
> val = f.read()  
> print val
> val = val+1
> ----------------------------------
> --> TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'int' objects
> 
> ----------------------------------
> f = open('serial.txt', 'rb')
> val = f.read()
> val = val + 1
> ----------------------------------
> --> TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'int' objects
> 
> 
> hm....
> 


-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Thu Aug 20 17:36:41 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:36:41 -0700
Subject: incrementing string/hex value from file and write back
In-Reply-To: 
References: <1250802514.3331.0.camel@celsius>
	
Message-ID: <4A8DC1E9.30504@stoneleaf.us>

[fixed top-posting]

Rami Chowdhury wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:08:34 -0700, Matthias G?ntert  
>  wrote:
> 
>> Hello guys
>>
>> I would like to read a hex number from an ASCII file, increment it and
>> write it back.
>> How can this be performed?
>>
>> I have tried several approaches:
>>
>> my file serial.txt contains: 0C
>>
>> ----------------------------------
>> f = open('serial.txt', 'r')
>> val = f.read()
>> val = val.encode('hex')
> 
> That's the crucial line -- it's returning a new integer,  which you are
> re-binding to val. If you then did:
> 
>   val = val + 1
> 
> you'd be fine, and could then write val back to your file :-)
> 

.encode('hex') is returning a string -- attempting to add one to it will 
raise the same error the OP is getting below.

To get a number you can do (after reading val from the file):

val = int(val, '16') # convert from base 16
val += 1             # increment
val = "%X" % val     # back to heg digits

and then write it back out again.  Don't forget to close and reopen the 
file for writing.  :)

~Ethan~

>> print val
>> ----------------------------------
>> --> 3043


>>
>> ----------------------------------
>> f = open('serial.txt', 'r')
>> val = f.read()
>> print val
>> val = val+1
>> ----------------------------------
>> --> TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'int' objects
>>
>> ----------------------------------
>> f = open('serial.txt', 'rb')
>> val = f.read()
>> val = val + 1
>> ----------------------------------
>> --> TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'int' objects
>>
>>
>> hm....



From sajmikins at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 17:38:08 2009
From: sajmikins at gmail.com (Simon Forman)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:38:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: incrementing string/hex value from file and write back
References: <1250802514.3331.0.camel@celsius>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 20, 5:18?pm, "Rami Chowdhury"  wrote:
> > val = val.encode('hex')
>
> That's the crucial line -- it's returning a new integer, which you are ?
> re-binding to val. If you then did:

No, it returns another string, which still isn't the decimal
representation of the hex string.  hex C => decimal 12

In [1]: '0C'.encode('hex')
Out[1]: '3043'


From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 17:44:57 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:44:57 -0700
Subject: incrementing string/hex value from file and write back
In-Reply-To: 
References: <1250802514.3331.0.camel@celsius>
	
	
Message-ID: 

Of course - my apologies, I was being an idiot.

On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:38:08 -0700, Simon Forman   
wrote:

> On Aug 20, 5:18?pm, "Rami Chowdhury"  wrote:
>> > val = val.encode('hex')
>>
>> That's the crucial line -- it's returning a new integer, which you are ?
>> re-binding to val. If you then did:
>
> No, it returns another string, which still isn't the decimal
> representation of the hex string.  hex C => decimal 12
>
> In [1]: '0C'.encode('hex')
> Out[1]: '3043'



-- 
Rami Chowdhury
"Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --  
Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)


From manu3d at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 17:46:19 2009
From: manu3d at gmail.com (Emanuele D'Arrigo)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:46:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Executing untrusted code
References: <137d4d96-c481-4806-a8cf-2904e89c78ae@l35g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<029d893f$0$25987$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4a5db5ed-4413-46a6-bc2b-6e9200b26ea3@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>

Christian, Rami and Steven, thank you all for your help. It wasn't
meant to be a challenge, I knew it ought to be easily breakable. I'm
no hacker and it just helps to have some examples to better understand
the issue.

On Aug 20, 7:42?pm, Steven D'Aprano  On a related topic, you should read this post here:
> http://tav.espians.com/a-challenge-to-break-python-security.html

Indeed I did read the post and my minimalistic test was inspired by
some of the code in it (I didn't know you could replace the
builtins!). Tav's effort kinda of ended nowhere though. My
understanding of it is that it hasn't been broken and that Tav has
submitted a patch to secure some of python's innards. But

Steven, you are perfectly right, I didn't test it and I missed the
crucial part in which I store the __builtins__ dictionary in the
dictionary of the new originalBuiltins module. My bad. Still, you did
understand my intentions and did give me a simple example of how it
could be broken. Thank you.

-However- I would suggest that conceptually the "award" goes to
Christian. ;)

In the same way the open builtin function can be replaced or removed,
also reload, file, __import__, exec, execfile and any other
potentially "unsafe" builtin can be replaced with safer versions. Or
not?

Christian's solution though, seems to be much trickier to evade. Can
the object class be replaced at runtime with a version that does not
provide a way to reach its subclasses?

Manu







From inigoserna at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 18:12:07 2009
From: inigoserna at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?ScOxaWdvIFNlcm5h?=)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 00:12:07 +0200
Subject: ncurses getch & unicode (was: decoding keyboard input when using 
	curses)
In-Reply-To: <65a1d6f80908200936g18b235fcw49d0047168cf9548@mail.gmail.com>
References: <65a1d6f80908200936g18b235fcw49d0047168cf9548@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <65a1d6f80908201512w4b90c646r315e699ed78a525a@mail.gmail.com>

Hi again,

2009/8/20 I?igo Serna 
>
> I have the same problem mentioned in http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/c70c80cd9bc7bac6?pli=1 some months ago.
>
> Python 2.6 program which uses ncurses module in a terminal configured to use UTF-8 encoding.
>
> When trying to get input from keyboard, a non-ascii character (like ?) is returned as 2 integers < 255, needing 2 calls to getch method to get both.
> These two integers \xc3 \xa7 forms the utf-8 encoded representation of ? character.
>
> ncurses get_wch documentation states the function should return an unique integer > 255 with the ordinal representation of that unicode char encoded in UTF-8, \xc3a7.

Answering myself, I've copied at the bottom of this email a working
solution, but the question still remains: why win.getch() doesn't
return the correct value?

Kind regards,
I?igo Serna


######################################################################
# test.py
import curses

import locale
locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, '')
print locale.getpreferredencoding()


def get_char(win):
??? def get_check_next_byte():
??????? c = win.getch()
??????? if 128 <= c <= 191:
??????????? return c
??????? else:
??????????? raise UnicodeError

??? bytes = []
??? c = win.getch()
??? if c <= 127:
??????? # 1 bytes
??????? bytes.append(c)
??? elif 194 <= c <= 223:
??????? # 2 bytes
??????? bytes.append(c)
??????? bytes.append(get_check_next_byte())
??? elif 224 <= c <= 239:
??????? # 3 bytes
??????? bytes.append(c)
??????? bytes.append(get_check_next_byte())
??????? bytes.append(get_check_next_byte())
??? elif 240 <= c <= 244:
??????? # 4 bytes
??????? bytes.append(c)
??????? bytes.append(get_check_next_byte())
??????? bytes.append(get_check_next_byte())
??????? bytes.append(get_check_next_byte())
??? buf = ''.join([chr(b) for b in bytes])
??? buf = buf.decode('utf-8')
??? return buf

def getcodes(win):
??? codes = []
??? while True:
??????? try:
??????????? ch = get_char(win)
??????? except KeyboardInterrupt:
??????????? return codes
??????? codes.append(ch)

lst = curses.wrapper(getcodes)
print lst
for c in lst:
??? print c.encode('utf-8'),
print
######################################################################

From mensanator at aol.com  Thu Aug 20 18:18:35 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 15:18:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: <2h2hwo918umw.1ihpdwjimzge8$.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 20, 2:06?pm, David <71da... at libero.it> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Is there some magic to make the 2.x CPython interpreter to ignore the
> annoying octal notation?
> I'd really like 012 to be "12" and not "10".

Use 3.1:

>>> int('012')
12


(Just kidding! That works in 2.5 also. How are you using it where
it's coming out wrong? I can see you pulling '012' out of a text
file and want to calculate with it, but how would you use a
string without using int()? Passing it to functions that allow
string representations of numbers?)

>
> If I want an octal I'll use oct()!
>
> "Explicit is better than implicit..."
>
> TIA
> David



From davea at ieee.org  Thu Aug 20 19:05:17 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 19:05:17 -0400
Subject: incrementing string/hex value from file and write back
In-Reply-To: <1250802514.3331.0.camel@celsius>
References: <1250802514.3331.0.camel@celsius>
Message-ID: <4A8DD6AD.5080108@ieee.org>

Matthias G?ntert wrote:
> Hello guys
>
> I would like to read a hex number from an ASCII file, increment it and
> write it back. 
> How can this be performed? 
>
> I have tried several approaches:
>
> my file serial.txt contains: 0C 
>
> ----------------------------------
> f = open('serial.txt', 'r')
> val = f.read()
> val = val.encode('hex')
> print val
> ----------------------------------
> --> 3043 
>
> ----------------------------------
> f = open('serial.txt', 'r')
> val = f.read()  
> print val
> val = val+1
> ----------------------------------
> --> TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'int' objects
>
> ----------------------------------
> f = open('serial.txt', 'rb')
> val = f.read()
> val = val + 1
> ----------------------------------
> --> TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'int' objects
>
>
> hm....
>
>
>   
You don't say much to constrain the file.  Is it always two characters 
(nibbles) long?  Or might it have a newline at the end?  If it could be 
multiple lines, is each line limited to 2 columns?  or to 8 columns?  or 
no limit?

To interpret val as an integer, try    new = int(val, 16)
Then to convert back to hex digits, try  line = "%x" % (val+1)

For fancier conversions, look at binascii.unhexlify() and hexlify().   
Look also at chr() and ord().  and str.format()

DaveA



From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Thu Aug 20 19:06:10 2009
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 00:06:10 +0100
Subject: thread and win32com.client problem
In-Reply-To: 
References: <970c1cee-71ac-4b01-91ce-8ca2014570f8@p9g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	<319b2ae1-276b-41af-9fd9-7086353ed193@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Christian Heimes wrote:
> Ray wrote:
>> I already find the way to fix it. :-)
> 
> I consider it good style when people describe their solution to a 
> problem, too. Other Python users may run into the same issue someday. :)
> 
> Christian

He probably used:  pythoncom.CoInitialize()

-- 
MPH
http://blog.dcuktec.com
'If consumed, best digested with added seasoning to own preference.'


From farberow at wisc.edu  Thu Aug 20 19:21:50 2009
From: farberow at wisc.edu (Carrie Farberow)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 18:21:50 -0500
Subject: Python on Crays
Message-ID: <6fb0f9aeb382.4a8d943e@wiscmail.wisc.edu>

I am trying to build a statically-linked Python based on directions at:

http://yt.enzotools.org/wiki/CrayXT5Installation

I have tried this on multiple systems.  The first time I attempt to build python, 'make' runs fine but 'make install' fails with the following error:

Sorry: UnicodeError: ("\\N escapes not supported (can't load unicodedata module)",)

Any help regarding the source of this error and possible fixes would be appreciated.

Carrie





From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Thu Aug 20 19:25:38 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 01:25:38 +0200
Subject: #elements of seq A in seq B
In-Reply-To: <7c16abe1-7502-432a-acff-aff95c22a8ac@q14g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	<7c16abe1-7502-432a-acff-aff95c22a8ac@q14g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

20-08-2009 o 04:12:14 Simon Forman  wrote:

> If you want to know the count for each element you can use this:
>
> from collections import defaultdict
>
> def g(a, b):
>     a = set(a)
>     d = defaultdict(int)
>     for item in b:
>         if item in a:
>             d[item] += 1
>     return d
>
> print g(A, B)
>
> # prints defaultdict(, {' ': 1, 'e': 1, 'g': 1, 'i': 1,
> 'o': 1, 'n': 2, 's': 1, 'r': 2, 't': 2})

Yeah, your sollution is better (and more interesting :-)). Thanks!

*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Thu Aug 20 19:44:43 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 01:44:43 +0200
Subject: #elements of seq A in seq B
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

20-08-2009 o 13:01:29 Neal Becker  wrote:

> I meant #occurrences of characters from the set A in string B

But:

1) separately for each element of A? (see Simon's sollution with
defaultdict)

2) or total number of all occurrences of elements of A? (see below)


20-08-2009 o 14:05:12 Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:

> identity = "".join(map(chr, range(256)))
> n = len(b) - len(b.translate(identity, a))

Nice, though I'd prefer Simon's sollution:

     a = set(a)
     n = sum(item in a for item in b)

Regards,
*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Aug 20 19:51:00 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 20 Aug 2009 16:51:00 -0700
Subject: Silly question
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
Benjamin Kaplan   wrote:
>On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 2:13 PM, David C Ullrich wrot=
>e:
>>
>> I just noticed that
>> sequence[i:j:k]
>
>Well, I got some good news and some bad news. According to the docs,
>it existed in 1.4 but the built-in sequences didn't support it until
>2.3. It's not used that often anyway so you haven't been missing much.

Except that it's canonical for one specific operation:

'reverseme'[::-1]
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Given that C++ has pointers and typecasts, it's really hard to have a
serious conversation about type safety with a C++ programmer and keep a
straight face.  It's kind of like having a guy who juggles chainsaws
wearing body armor arguing with a guy who juggles rubber chickens wearing
a T-shirt about who's in more danger."  --Roy Smith


From james.harris.1 at googlemail.com  Thu Aug 20 19:59:14 2009
From: james.harris.1 at googlemail.com (James Harris)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 16:59:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: <2h2hwo918umw.1ihpdwjimzge8$.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: 

On 20 Aug, 20:06, David <71da... at libero.it> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Is there some magic to make the 2.x CPython interpreter to ignore the
> annoying octal notation?
> I'd really like 012 to be "12" and not "10".

This is (IMHO) a sad hangover from C (which took it from B but not
from BCPL which used # and #x) and it appears in many
places. It sounds like you want to use leading zeroes in literals -
perhaps for spacing. I don't think there's an easy way. You just have
to be aware of it.

Note that it seems to apply to integers and not floating point
literals

>>> 012
10
>>> int("012")
12
>>> 012.5
12.5
>>>

This daft notation is recognised in some surprising places to catch
the unwary. For example, the place I first came across it was in a
windows command prompt:

s:\>ping 192.168.1.012
Pinging 192.168.1.10 with 32 bytes of data:

On B's use of the leading zero see

  http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/kbman.html

and note the comment: "An octal constant is the same as a decimal
constant except that it begins with a zero. It is then interpreted in
base 8. Note that 09 (base 8) is legal and equal to 011."

It maybe made sense once but this relic of the past should have been
consigned to the waste bin of history long ago.

James


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Thu Aug 20 20:45:11 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 17:45:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Silly question
References: 
	 
	
Message-ID: <97ae0d22-7eaa-4ad6-8603-69699703d508@u16g2000pru.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 21, 5:33?am, David C Ullrich  wrote:

> So I'm slow, fine. (There were several times when I was using 1.5.3
> and wished they were there - transposing matrices, etc.)

1.5.THREE ??


From sflennik at comcast.net  Thu Aug 20 20:57:53 2009
From: sflennik at comcast.net (Steve1234)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 17:57:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: install package in a particular python version
Message-ID: <4ae493d4-4669-4e54-a385-6d79d539a778@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>


I installed the boto module in my Ubuntu system using "python setup.py
install" and it installs in my python2.6 version and works great.  Now
I want to install boto into my python2.5 version because my hosting
services supports 2.5 but not 2.6. and I want to test my code locally,
"sting".format() is not in 2.5.

How do I install a package in a particular version of python?

I tried several different install switches without any luck.


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Aug 20 20:58:53 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 20 Aug 2009 17:58:53 -0700
Subject: platform-specific overrides of functions and class methods 
	(expanding on imputils demo code)
References: 
	<77715735-2668-43e7-95da-c91d175b35c9@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

In article <77715735-2668-43e7-95da-c91d175b35c9 at z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
lkcl   wrote:
>
>if somebody would like to add this to the python bugtracker, as a
>contribution, that would be great.  alternatively, you might like to
>have a word with the python developers to get them to remove the
>censorship on my contributions.

Excuse me?  What censorship?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"Given that C++ has pointers and typecasts, it's really hard to have a
serious conversation about type safety with a C++ programmer and keep a
straight face.  It's kind of like having a guy who juggles chainsaws
wearing body armor arguing with a guy who juggles rubber chickens wearing
a T-shirt about who's in more danger."  --Roy Smith


From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Thu Aug 20 21:05:34 2009
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 21:05:34 -0400
Subject: install package in a particular python version
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4ae493d4-4669-4e54-a385-6d79d539a778@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

whoops, sent it to you instead of the list

On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 9:05 PM, Benjamin
Kaplan wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 8:57 PM, Steve1234 wrote:
>>
>> I installed the boto module in my Ubuntu system using "python setup.py
>> install" and it installs in my python2.6 version and works great. ?Now
>> I want to install boto into my python2.5 version because my hosting
>> services supports 2.5 but not 2.6. and I want to test my code locally,
>> "sting".format() is not in 2.5.
>>
>> How do I install a package in a particular version of python?
>>
>> I tried several different install switches without any luck.
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
> It's not an install switch- it's the version of python you use to
> install it. If you want to install it to Python 2.5, run python2.5
> setup.py install
>


From david.lyon at preisshare.net  Thu Aug 20 21:34:08 2009
From: david.lyon at preisshare.net (David Lyon)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 21:34:08 -0400
Subject: install package in a particular python version
In-Reply-To: <4ae493d4-4669-4e54-a385-6d79d539a778@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
References: <4ae493d4-4669-4e54-a385-6d79d539a778@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <85a5395c9a481e1dfc74f5a76a62e85a@preisshare.net>

On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 17:57:53 -0700 (PDT), Steve1234 
wrote:
> I installed the boto module in my Ubuntu system using "python setup.py
> install" and it installs in my python2.6 version and works great.  Now
> I want to install boto into my python2.5 version because my hosting
> services supports 2.5 but not 2.6. and I want to test my code locally,
> "sting".format() is not in 2.5.
> 
> How do I install a package in a particular version of python?
> 
> I tried several different install switches without any luck.

If you wish to do it in a gui rather than at the commandline then
you could try the python package manager at :

  http://sourceforge.net/projects/pythonpkgmgr/

You will need to download it from source.

In the Options Dialog, there is a dropdown list that allow you to 
easily change from one version of python to another.

Regards

David


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Thu Aug 20 21:42:42 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 03:42:42 +0200
Subject: #elements of seq A in seq B
In-Reply-To: <200908202009.59909.ndbecker2@gmail.com>
References:  
	
	<200908202009.59909.ndbecker2@gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

>>      a = set(a)
>>      n = sum(item in a for item in b)

> Why set?  Does it matter if I say that items in A are already unique?

Sets are hash-based, so it's (most probably) far more efficient for
sets than for sequences (especially if we say about big/long ones).

Regards,
*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From charles at declareSub.com  Thu Aug 20 22:12:32 2009
From: charles at declareSub.com (Charles Yeomans)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 22:12:32 -0400
Subject: How to create functors?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<7xab1vl0qf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
	<7xmy5uanlt.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
Message-ID: <33BB3F81-177F-4A02-9F09-44520F4823C4@declareSub.com>


On Aug 20, 2009, at 5:25 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 01:36:14 -0700, Paul Rubin wrote:
>
>> Steven D'Aprano  writes:
>>> As near as I can tell, a functor is just an object which is callable
>>> like a function without actually being implemented as a function,  
>>> e.g.:
>>
>> No it's not anything like that either, at least as I'm used to the  
>> term
>> in programming or in mathematics.  Maybe it's used other ways though.
>
> According to Wikipedia, functor can be used as a synonym for "function
> object":
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Function_object
>
> which is what I was thinking of. So it seems there are at least two
> meanings for the word, neither of which seems to apply to this  
> thread :)
>
>
>
>> As I'm used to it, it's a feature of certain static type systems.   
>> The
>> notion isn't that useful in Python
>
> I find the Haskell page entirely opaque and unintelligible. Well,  
> perhaps
> not *entirely* opaque, but pretty close: it assumes a mathematical
> sophistication that I don't think I even had when I was getting my  
> maths
> degree, let alone can remember two decades later. (Pity the poor VB
> coders wondering what Haskell is good for...) The Wikipedia page is a
> little better, but it's section on Examples is laughable -- the  
> examples
> are as unintelligible to this reader as the description before them.
>

To this reader -- an Rb coder -- the examples were pretty clear.

>
> But let me try an example to see if I've got it right:
>
>
> class Int2StrFunctor:
>    def map1(self, n):
>        if type(n) is not int:
>            raise TypeError('argument must be an int')
>        return "-"*n
>    def map2(self, f):
>        if type(f) is not type(lambda: None):
>            raise TypeError('argument must be a function')
>        # assume f takes an int, and returns another int
>        def inner(n):
>            return self.map1(f(n))
>        return inner
>
>
> The functor can take an int and return a string:
>
>>>> F = Int2StrFunctor()  # F is a functor
>>>> F.map1(3)
> '---'
>
> It can also take a function (of int -> int) and return a new function
> (int -> str):
>
>>>> def myfunc(n):
> ...     return n+2
> ...
>>>> f = F.map2(myfunc)
>>>> f(3)
> '-----'
>>>> f(4)
> '------'
>
>
> There's nothing special about the methods map1() and map2(), I could  
> call
> them anything I like, or even do this:
>
>
>>>> def __call__(self, arg):
> ...     if type(arg) is int:
> ...             return self.map1(arg)
> ...     else:
> ...             return self.map2(arg)
> ...
>>>> Int2StrFunctor.__call__ = __call__
>>>>
>>>> F(2)
> '--'
>>>> F(myfunc)(0)
> '--'
>
>
> There are some technical restrictions on functors, relating to the  
> sorts
> of functions and types (strictly "categories") they can accept,
> presumably to make them mathematically well-behaved.
>
>
> Have I got it correct?
>

I don't think so.  Paul Rubin's square example was, I thought,  
particularly instructive.

Charles Yeomans
-------------- next part --------------
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From laser.yuan at gmail.com  Thu Aug 20 23:34:20 2009
From: laser.yuan at gmail.com (laser)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 20:34:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: IDLE is not as interactive as Maple
References: <7aa51a98-965c-4c74-a3b5-650140f1d589@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<399082f9-3765-46dc-b71e-618e75256cf9@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <80f61e9c-9c0d-4fc9-a16a-9ef9f90b928c@o9g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

Thanks very much for your information. Reinteract looks like exactly
what I want. It give me the similary feeling of using Maple. I like
this kind of programming style. People who did not have this
experience really should take a try.

On 8?20?, ??9?11?, Andr?  wrote:
> On Aug 20, 12:22 am, laser  wrote:
>
> > In the future, will Python provide programe enviroment like Maple
> > does?
>
> A quick, flip answer: perhaps if you design one?  Tools for Python are
> designed by people scratching an itch.
>
> That being said, have a look at reinteract:http://www.reinteract.org/trac/wiki/Tutorial/Introduction
>
> > In Maple, you can remove anything unneeded in the editor. And
> > the code execution order are not necessary in one direction. You can
> > run any command line on the screen by
> > push Enter key. These functions gave a lot of flaxibility for users to
> > start with programming something.
>
> Andr?



From sflennik at comcast.net  Thu Aug 20 23:53:18 2009
From: sflennik at comcast.net (Steve1234)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 20:53:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: install package in a particular python version
References: <4ae493d4-4669-4e54-a385-6d79d539a778@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <99822c4d-74ef-4a28-b133-42144c7fd25a@f20g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

Benjamin suggested:
sudo python2.5 setup.py install
and it works.  This makes sense, thanks.

I downloaded pythonpkgmgr from source and installed it.  I got the
error that reguired wx package was missing.  I couldn't find this
package for Linux or source.


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Aug 21 01:13:56 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 15:13:56 +1000
Subject: Waiting for a subprocess to exit
Message-ID: <873a7l21gr.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Howdy all,

I'm looking to replace some usages of ?os.system? with the more secure
?subprocess.Popen? methods.

The module documentation has a section on replacing ?os.system?
, which
says to use::

    process = subprocess.Popen("mycmd" + " myarg", shell=True)
    status = os.waitpid(process.pid, 0)

But a ?Popen? instance has its own ?wait? method, which waits for exit
.
Why would I use ?os.waitpid? instead of::

    process = subprocess.Popen("mycmd" + " myarg", shell=True)
    process.wait()
    status = process.returncode

-- 
 \       ?The best is the enemy of the good.? ?Voltaire, _Dictionnaire |
  `\                                                    Philosophique_ |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 01:17:29 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 22:17:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: 2.6 windows install
References: 
Message-ID: <1e18d400-03ec-48ae-b59d-72aa6f5d9f64@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>

"Tim Arnold"  wrote:
> Any ideas on what I'm missing here?

Most likely the required configuration of the local environments.

Did you install Python to the network device from your XP box? That
would explain why you can run it: the required registry settings &
environment variables are added by the installer, none of which is
occurring on any computer other than the one from which you installed.

To be honest, I've never seen a single-point-of-access network
installation of Python for a Windows environment. If it was possible,
I'd expect ActiveState's ActivePython to support it but there's no
mention of it in the list of acceptable installer switches[1].

[1]: http://docs.activestate.com/activepython/2.6/installnotes.html#msi



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Aug 21 01:18:09 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 15:18:09 +1000
Subject: install package in a particular python version
References: <4ae493d4-4669-4e54-a385-6d79d539a778@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87y6pdzqwe.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Steve1234  writes:

> I installed the boto module in my Ubuntu system using "python setup.py
> install" and it installs in my python2.6 version and works great.

That's because your ?python? command is doing the same thing as if you'd
typed::

    $ python2.6 setup.py install

The Python 2.6 interpreter knows where its ?site-packages? path is, and
so ?setup.py? in turn knows where to put files.

> Now I want to install boto into my python2.5 version

Invoke the specific Python interpreter you want::

    $ python2.5 setup.py install

-- 
 \        ?Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. If your ideas |
  `\     are any good, you'll have to ram them down people's throats.? |
_o__)                                                    ?Howard Aiken |
Ben Finney


From josefg at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 02:07:18 2009
From: josefg at gmail.com (josef)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 23:07:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Object Reference question
Message-ID: <2dcf41c3-6623-48d9-bb74-97f753088479@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

To begin, I'm new with python. I've read a few discussions about
object references and I think I understand them.

To be clear, Python uses a "Pass By Object Reference" model.
x = 1
x becomes the object reference, while an object is created with the
type 'int', value 1, and identifier (id(x)). Doing this with a class,
x = myclass(), does the same thing, but with more or less object
attributes. Every object has a type and an identifier (id()),
according to the Python Language Reference for 2.6.2 section 3.1.

x in both cases is the object reference. I would like to use the
object to refer to the object reference. If I have a gross
misunderstanding, please correct me.

The following is what I would like to do:
I have a list of class instances dk = [ a, b, c, d ], where a, b, c, d
is an object reference. Entering dk gives me the object: [MyClass0
instance at 0x0000, MyClass1 instance at 0x0008, MyClass2 instance at
0x0010 ... ]

I need the object reference name (a,b,c,d) from dk to use as input for
a file. Where do I find the memory location of the object reference
and the object reference name memory location? I am unconcerned with
the fact that the memory location will change the next time I run a
python session. I will be using the object reference name for
processing right away.

My main focus of this post is: "How do I find and use object reference
memory locations?"

Thoughts?
Thanks,

Josef


From milesck at umich.edu  Fri Aug 21 02:18:35 2009
From: milesck at umich.edu (Miles Kaufmann)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 23:18:35 -0700
Subject: Waiting for a subprocess to exit
In-Reply-To: <873a7l21gr.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <873a7l21gr.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 20, 2009, at 10:13 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
> The module documentation has a section on replacing ?os.system?
> , which
> says to use::
>
>    process = subprocess.Popen("mycmd" + " myarg", shell=True)
>    status = os.waitpid(process.pid, 0)
>
> But a ?Popen? instance has its own ?wait? method, which waits for exit
> .
> Why would I use ?os.waitpid? instead of::
>
>    process = subprocess.Popen("mycmd" + " myarg", shell=True)
>    process.wait()
>    status = process.returncode

Really, you can just use:

   process = subprocess.Popen("mycmd" + " myarg", shell=True)
   status = process.wait()

I'm not sure why the documentation suggests using os.waitpid.

I would recommend avoiding shell=True whenever possible.  It's used in  
the examples, I suspect, to ease the transition from the functions  
being replaced, but all it takes is for a filename or some other input  
to unexpectedly contain whitespace or a metacharacter and your script  
will stop working--or worse, do damage (cf. the iTunes 2 installer  
debacle[1]).  Leaving shell=False makes scripts more secure and  
robust; besides, when I'm putting together a command and its  
arguments, it's as convenient to build a list (['mycmd', 'myarg']) as  
it is a string (if not more so).

-Miles

[1]: http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/11/04/0412209#comment_2518563

From milesck at umich.edu  Fri Aug 21 02:34:13 2009
From: milesck at umich.edu (Miles Kaufmann)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 23:34:13 -0700
Subject: Object Reference question
In-Reply-To: <2dcf41c3-6623-48d9-bb74-97f753088479@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <2dcf41c3-6623-48d9-bb74-97f753088479@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <502C2E44-39EE-42E5-A9EA-3110CAEFF99D@umich.edu>

On Aug 20, 2009, at 11:07 PM, josef wrote:

> To begin, I'm new with python. I've read a few discussions about
> object references and I think I understand them.
>
> To be clear, Python uses a "Pass By Object Reference" model.
> x = 1
> x becomes the object reference, while an object is created with the
> type 'int', value 1, and identifier (id(x)). Doing this with a class,
> x = myclass(), does the same thing, but with more or less object
> attributes. Every object has a type and an identifier (id()),
> according to the Python Language Reference for 2.6.2 section 3.1.
>
> x in both cases is the object reference. I would like to use the
> object to refer to the object reference.

Stop right there.  'x' is not *the* object reference.  It is *an*  
object reference (or in my preferred terminology, a label).  Suppose  
you do:

x = myclass()
y = x

The labels 'x' and 'y' both refer to the same object with equal  
precedence.  There is no mapping from object back to label; it is a  
one-way pointer.  Also importantly, labels themselves are not objects,  
and cannot be accessed or referred to.

(This is a slight oversimplification; thanks to Python's reflection  
and introspection capabilities, it is possible to access labels to  
some extent, and in some limited situations it is possible to use  
stack inspection to obtain a label for an object.  But this is hackish  
and error-prone, and should never be used when a more Pythonic method  
is available.)

> The following is what I would like to do:
> I have a list of class instances dk = [ a, b, c, d ], where a, b, c, d
> is an object reference. Entering dk gives me the object: [MyClass0
> instance at 0x0000, MyClass1 instance at 0x0008, MyClass2 instance at
> 0x0010 ... ]
>
> I need the object reference name (a,b,c,d) from dk to use as input for
> a file.

It sounds like you should either be storing that name as an attribute  
of the object, or using a dictionary ({'a': a, 'b': b, ...}).

-Miles



From clp2 at rebertia.com  Fri Aug 21 02:39:41 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 23:39:41 -0700
Subject: Object Reference question
In-Reply-To: <502C2E44-39EE-42E5-A9EA-3110CAEFF99D@umich.edu>
References: <2dcf41c3-6623-48d9-bb74-97f753088479@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<502C2E44-39EE-42E5-A9EA-3110CAEFF99D@umich.edu>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908202339w46e11252xc1fb86f770423f19@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 11:34 PM, Miles Kaufmann wrote:
> On Aug 20, 2009, at 11:07 PM, josef wrote:

>> The following is what I would like to do:
>> I have a list of class instances dk = [ a, b, c, d ], where a, b, c, d
>> is an object reference. Entering dk gives me the object: [MyClass0
>> instance at 0x0000, MyClass1 instance at 0x0008, MyClass2 instance at
>> 0x0010 ... ]
>>
>> I need the object reference name (a,b,c,d) from dk to use as input for
>> a file.
>
> It sounds like you should either be storing that name as an attribute of the
> object, or using a dictionary ({'a': a, 'b': b, ...}).

Shorter way to produce the same dictionary:
dict(a=a, b=b, ...)

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From python at rcn.com  Fri Aug 21 02:42:34 2009
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 23:42:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: #elements of seq A in seq B
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 19, 4:19?pm, Neal Becker  wrote:
> What would be a time efficient way to count the number of occurrences of
> elements of sequence A in sequence B? ?(in this particular case, these
> sequences are strings, if that matters).

Python 3.1.1 (r311:74483, Aug 17 2009, 17:02:12) [MSC v.1500 32 bit
(Intel)] on win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license()" for more information.
>>> import collections
>>> A = 'abc'
>>> B = 'abracadabra'
>>> collections.Counter(filter(A.__contains__, B))
Counter({'a': 5, 'b': 2, 'c': 1})


Raymond


From python at rcn.com  Fri Aug 21 02:44:29 2009
From: python at rcn.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 23:44:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: #elements of seq A in seq B
References: 
Message-ID: <3f0fe16b-19df-4e48-94a6-96ea303c6ff2@g1g2000pra.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 19, 4:19?pm, Neal Becker  wrote:
> What would be a time efficient way to count the number of occurrences of
> elements of sequence A in sequence B? ?(in this particular case, these
> sequences are strings, if that matters).

Python 3.1.1 (r311:74483, Aug 17 2009, 17:02:12) [MSC v.1500 32 bit
(Intel)] on win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license()" for more information.
>>> import collections
>>> A = 'abc'
>>> B = 'abracadabra'
>>> collections.Counter(filter(set(A).__contains__, B))
Counter({'a': 5, 'b': 2, 'c': 1})

Raymond


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Fri Aug 21 02:50:13 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 08:50:13 +0200
Subject: Object Reference question
In-Reply-To: <2dcf41c3-6623-48d9-bb74-97f753088479@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <2dcf41c3-6623-48d9-bb74-97f753088479@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <200908210850.14075.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Friday 21 August 2009 08:07:18 josef wrote:

> My main focus of this post is: "How do I find and use object reference
> memory locations?"

>>> a = [1,2,3,4]
>>> id(a)
8347088
>>>  

- Hendrik


From josefg at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 02:56:57 2009
From: josefg at gmail.com (josef)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 23:56:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Object Reference question
References: <2dcf41c3-6623-48d9-bb74-97f753088479@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <627db5cc-7758-4d09-9ca4-78bc501c2626@d4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 21, 1:34?am, Miles Kaufmann  wrote:
> On Aug 20, 2009, at 11:07 PM, josef wrote:
>
> > To begin, I'm new with python. I've read a few discussions about
> > object references and I think I understand them.
>
> > To be clear, Python uses a "Pass By Object Reference" model.
> > x = 1
> > x becomes the object reference, while an object is created with the
> > type 'int', value 1, and identifier (id(x)). Doing this with a class,
> > x = myclass(), does the same thing, but with more or less object
> > attributes. Every object has a type and an identifier (id()),
> > according to the Python Language Reference for 2.6.2 section 3.1.
>
> > x in both cases is the object reference. I would like to use the
> > object to refer to the object reference.
>
> Stop right there. ?'x' is not *the* object reference. ?It is *an* ?
> object reference (or in my preferred terminology, a label). ?Suppose ?
> you do:
>
> x = myclass()
> y = x

It would not make sense to do that in the context of the software I am
writing. The documentation will specifically state not to do that. If
the user does do that, then the user will be disappointed and possibly
angry.

>
> The labels 'x' and 'y' both refer to the same object with equal ?
> precedence. ?There is no mapping from object back to label; it is a ?
> one-way pointer. ?Also importantly, labels themselves are not objects, ?
> and cannot be accessed or referred to.

I would just like to store the name of the one way pointer.

>
> (This is a slight oversimplification; thanks to Python's reflection ?
> and introspection capabilities, it is possible to access labels to ?
> some extent, and in some limited situations it is possible to use ?
> stack inspection to obtain a label for an object. ?But this is hackish ?
> and error-prone, and should never be used when a more Pythonic method ?
> is available.)

Hackish is fine. How error-prone is this method?
>
> > The following is what I would like to do:
> > I have a list of class instances dk = [ a, b, c, d ], where a, b, c, d
> > is an object reference. Entering dk gives me the object: [MyClass0
> > instance at 0x0000, MyClass1 instance at 0x0008, MyClass2 instance at
> > 0x0010 ... ]
>
> > I need the object reference name (a,b,c,d) from dk to use as input for
> > a file.
>
> It sounds like you should either be storing that name as an attribute ?
> of the object, or using a dictionary ({'a': a, 'b': b, ...}).

That solution was mentioned in some of the discussions I read, but I
would like to stay away from something like: a = MyClass
(name='a', ...). Is it possible to assign an object reference name in
a class __init__ defintion?


From __peter__ at web.de  Fri Aug 21 03:43:51 2009
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 09:43:51 +0200
Subject: #elements of seq A in seq B
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

Jan Kaliszewski wrote:

> 20-08-2009 o 13:01:29 Neal Becker  wrote:
> 
>> I meant #occurrences of characters from the set A in string B
> 
> But:
> 
> 1) separately for each element of A? (see Simon's sollution with
> defaultdict)
> 
> 2) or total number of all occurrences of elements of A? (see below)
> 
> 
> 20-08-2009 o 14:05:12 Peter Otten <__peter__ at web.de> wrote:
> 
>> identity = "".join(map(chr, range(256)))
>> n = len(b) - len(b.translate(identity, a))
> 
> Nice, though I'd prefer Simon's sollution:
> 
>      a = set(a)
>      n = sum(item in a for item in b)

Just to give you an idea why I posted the former:

$ python -m timeit -s"a = set('abc'); b = 'abcdefg'*10**5" 'sum(item in a 
for item in b)'
10 loops, best of 3: 195 msec per loop

$ python -m timeit -s"a = 'abc'; b = 'abcdefg'*10**5; id=''.join(map(chr, 
range(256)))" 'len(b) - len(b.translate(id, a))'
100 loops, best of 3: 4.97 msec per loop

Peter



From davea at ieee.org  Fri Aug 21 03:56:57 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 03:56:57 -0400
Subject: Object Reference question
In-Reply-To: <2dcf41c3-6623-48d9-bb74-97f753088479@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <2dcf41c3-6623-48d9-bb74-97f753088479@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A8E5349.80104@ieee.org>

josef wrote:
> To begin, I'm new with python. I've read a few discussions about
> object references and I think I understand them.
>
> To be clear, Python uses a "Pass By Object Reference" model.
> x = 1
> x becomes the object reference, while an object is created with the
> type 'int', value 1, and identifier (id(x)). Doing this with a class,
> x = myclass(), does the same thing, but with more or less object
> attributes. Every object has a type and an identifier (id()),
> according to the Python Language Reference for 2.6.2 section 3.1.
>
> x in both cases is the object reference. I would like to use the
> object to refer to the object reference. If I have a gross
> misunderstanding, please correct me.
>
> The following is what I would like to do:
> I have a list of class instances dk = [ a, b, c, d ], where a, b, c, d
> is an object reference. Entering dk gives me the object: [MyClass0
> instance at 0x0000, MyClass1 instance at 0x0008, MyClass2 instance at
> 0x0010 ... ]
>
> I need the object reference name (a,b,c,d) from dk to use as input for
> a file. Where do I find the memory location of the object reference
> and the object reference name memory location? I am unconcerned with
> the fact that the memory location will change the next time I run a
> python session. I will be using the object reference name for
> processing right away.
>
> My main focus of this post is: "How do I find and use object reference
> memory locations?"
>
> Thoughts?
> Thanks,
>
> Josef
>
>   
There was a similar query here within the last couple of months, and 
lots of interesting discussion.  But I never saw a use case convincing 
enough for me to want to remember how the various suggestions worked.  
Just how are you planning to use this?  Are you planning to write a 
debugger?

Or are you trying to keep mnemonic names for all instances of a 
particular class?  Is this for a particular program's use, or are you 
trying to create a library to be used to reverse engineer some software 
you con't control?

Several of your phrasings imply you don't understand Python yet.

"memory location" - invisible to python use.  And although id() will 
give you a hash-code that's actually a memory address, there's no direct 
way to use it.  And names (attributes) don't necessarily have an address.
"the object reference name (a,b,c,d) from dk"  What is this?  There's 
nothing that even conceptually looks like that when you assign   dk = 
[a, b, c, d]


A given object may have one to many references, and some of these may 
have names.  If you constrain those names to be in a particular context, 
it may be possible to search for which name(s) currently happen(s) to 
point to the given object.  For example, if you have the following at 
top level in a module:

a = MyClass0()
b = MyClass1()
c = MyClass2()
dk = [a, b, c]

then, given the  id() of  dk[2], you could search the particular modules 
global name dictionary, and find c.  But for the following fragment, you 
could not:

a = MyClass0()
b = MyClass1()
c = MyClass2()
dk = [a, b, c]
c = 42

dk remains the same, but the dk[2] item no longer has any name 
referencing it.

At any given instant of time, most objects in a typical program have no 
name associated with them.  Many of them never did have a name.  What 
would you want if dk had been created as:

dk = [MyClass0(), MyClass1(), MyClass2()]

or if a, b, and/or c were local variables in a function that's long 
since quit running, or that has run many times, each time creating new 
objects?

DaveA



From catalinfest at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 04:09:09 2009
From: catalinfest at gmail.com (catafest)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 01:09:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: PIL and Python
References: 
	<9683190f-3c99-49d6-93d1-d8966d38d7a6@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> 
	 
	
Message-ID: <5df342cf-c742-42d6-bc8c-97a3c44a0816@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

I don't extract data from jpegs.
I wanna put some data in this (copyright of my site) ...

On Aug 20, 2:01?pm, MaxTheMouse  wrote:
> On Aug 20, 10:23?am, catafest  wrote:
>
> > On my photo jpg i have this :
>
> > Image Type: jpeg (The JPEG image format)
> > Width: 1224 pixels
> > Height: 1632 pixels
> > Camera Brand: Sony Ericsson
> > Camera Model: W810i
> > Date Taken: 2009:07:09 08:16:21
> > Exposure Time: 1/19 sec.
> > ISO Speed Rating: 320
> > Flash Fired: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode.
> > Metering Mode: Center-Weighted Average
> > Software: R4EA031 ? ? prgCXC1250321_ORANGE_HN 4.5
>
> > This is the data i want edit it to make some copyright for my site.
>
> I don't know about PIL but you might want to try exif.py.http://sourceforge.net/projects/exif-py/



From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Fri Aug 21 04:34:09 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 10:34:09 +0200
Subject: Object Reference question
In-Reply-To: <2dcf41c3-6623-48d9-bb74-97f753088479@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <2dcf41c3-6623-48d9-bb74-97f753088479@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a8e5bf6$0$15180$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

josef a ?crit :
> To begin, I'm new with python. I've read a few discussions about
> object references and I think I understand them.
> 
> To be clear, Python uses a "Pass By Object Reference" model.
> x = 1
> x becomes the object reference, while an object is created with the
> type 'int', value 1, and identifier (id(x)). Doing this with a class,
> x = myclass(), does the same thing, but with more or less object
> attributes. Every object has a type and an identifier (id()),
> according to the Python Language Reference for 2.6.2 section 3.1.
> 
> x in both cases is the object reference. 

Nope. It's *a* reference to the object - or, more exactly, a key in a 
mapping (the current namespace), which is associatied with a reference 
to the object. You can translate:

    x = 1

to:

   current_namespace['x'] = int(1)


> I would like to use the
> object to refer to the object reference. If I have a gross
> misunderstanding, please correct me.
> 
> The following is what I would like to do:
> I have a list of class instances dk = [ a, b, c, d ], where a, b, c, d
> is an object reference. Entering dk gives me the object: [MyClass0
> instance at 0x0000, MyClass1 instance at 0x0008, MyClass2 instance at
> 0x0010 ... ]
> 
> I need the object reference name (a,b,c,d) from dk to use as input for
> a file.

???

Could you elaborate, please ?

>  Where do I find the memory location of the object reference
> and the object reference name memory location? 

short answer : you don't. Python is a high level language, 'memory 
location' is an implementation detail (and highly 
implementation-dependant), and *not* exposed (at least not in any usable 
way).

> I am unconcerned with
> the fact that the memory location will change the next time I run a
> python session. I will be using the object reference name for
> processing right away.
> 
> My main focus of this post is: "How do I find and use object reference
> memory locations?"
> 
> Thoughts?

Yes : please explain the problem you're trying to solve. I mean, the 
*real* problem - what you want to achieve -, not what you think is the 
solution !-)


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Fri Aug 21 04:36:38 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 05:36:38 -0300
Subject: difference between 2 arrays
References: 
	<4a8d1d3f$0$23447$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr>
Message-ID: 

En Thu, 20 Aug 2009 06:54:05 -0300, <""Michel Claveau -  
MVP"> escribi?:

> Yes, the module sets is written, in doc, like "deprecated".
> But:
>   - sets exist in Python 2.6 (& 2.5 or 2.4)
>   - documentation of sets (module) is better tha, documentation of set  
> (builtin)
>
> The best: read the documentaion of the module, and use the builtin...

Any suggestion to improve the builtin set documentation? In what ways do  
you see one is better than the other?

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From dickey at his.com  Fri Aug 21 04:47:42 2009
From: dickey at his.com (Thomas Dickey)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 01:47:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ncurses getch & unicode (was: decoding keyboard input when using 
	curses)
References: <65a1d6f80908200936g18b235fcw49d0047168cf9548@mail.gmail.com> 
	
Message-ID: <0a683d75-ac07-40a6-8374-2a2e900ac0ba@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 20, 6:12?pm, I?igo Serna  wrote:
> Hi again,
>
> 2009/8/20 I?igo Serna 
> > I have the same problem mentioned inhttp://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/...some months ago.
>
> > Python 2.6 program which usesncursesmodule in a terminal configured to use UTF-8 encoding.
>
> > When trying to get input from keyboard, a non-ascii character (like ?) is returned as 2 integers < 255, needing 2 calls to getch method to get both.
> > These two integers \xc3 \xa7 forms the utf-8 encoded representation of ? character.
>
> >ncursesget_wch documentation states the function should return an unique integer > 255 with the ordinal representation of that unicode char encoded in UTF-8, \xc3a7.
>
> Answering myself, I've copied at the bottom of this email a working
> solution, but the question still remains: why win.getch() doesn't
> return the correct value?

The code looks consistent with the curses functions...

> Kind regards,
> I?igo Serna
>
> ######################################################################
> # test.py
> import curses
>
> import locale
> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, '')
> print locale.getpreferredencoding()
>
> def get_char(win):
> ??? def get_check_next_byte():
> ??????? c = win.getch()

You're using "getch", not "get_wch" (Python's ncurses binding may/may
not have the latter).
curses getch returns 8-bit values, get_wch would return wider values.


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Aug 21 04:49:19 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 18:49:19 +1000
Subject: Waiting for a subprocess to exit
References: <873a7l21gr.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
Message-ID: <87fxbllfg0.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Miles Kaufmann  writes:

> On Aug 20, 2009, at 10:13 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
> > Why would I use ?os.waitpid? instead of::
> >
> >    process = subprocess.Popen("mycmd" + " myarg", shell=True)
> >    process.wait()
> >    status = process.returncode
>
> Really, you can just use:
>
>   process = subprocess.Popen("mycmd" + " myarg", shell=True)
>   status = process.wait()

Ah thanks, that's even better.

> I'm not sure why the documentation suggests using os.waitpid.

Could someone who knows how to drive the Python BTS please report that
against the ?subprocess? documentation?

-- 
 \       ?I am amazed, O Wall, that you have not collapsed and fallen, |
  `\            since you must bear the tedious stupidities of so many |
_o__)                  scrawlers.? ?anonymous graffiti, Pompeii, 79 CE |
Ben Finney


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Fri Aug 21 04:52:05 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 10:52:05 +0200
Subject: Problem with arrays in a recursive class function
In-Reply-To: <190378bc-f095-46fa-9104-cb94fa09698f@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <190378bc-f095-46fa-9104-cb94fa09698f@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a8e6029$0$20864$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

Aaron Scott a ?crit :
> I have a list of nodes, and I need to find a path from one node to
> another. The nodes each have a list of nodes they are connected to,
> set up like this:
> 
> 
> 
> class Node(object):
> 	def __init__(self, connectedNodes):
> 		self.connectedNodes = connectedNodes
> 
> nodes = {
> 	1: Node([4]),
> 	2: Node([3]),
> 	3: Node([2, 4, 5]),
> 	4: Node([1, 6, 3]),
> 	5: Node([3, 7]),
> 	6: Node([4, 9]),
> 	7: Node([5, 8]),
> 	8: Node([7, 9]),
> 	9: Node([6, 8])
> }
> 
> 
> 
> I made a quick brute-force pathfinder to solve it (in this case, a
> path from node 1 to node 9). Here it is:
> 
> 
> 
> class PathFind(object):
> 	def __init__(self, source, destination):
> 		self.source = source
> 		self.destination = destination
> 		self.solved = []
> 	def Search(self):
> 		self.PathFind([self.source])
 >
> 		if self.solved:
> 			print "Solutions: "
> 			for i in self.solved:
> 				print "\t" + str(i)

                                 print "\t%s" % i

> 		else:
> 			print "Couldn't solve."
> 	def PathFind(self, trail):
> 		location = trail[-1]
> 		if location == self.destination:
> 			self.solved.append(trail)

I think you want
                         self.solved.append(trail[:])

Hint : Python doesn't use "pass by value".


  > The problem is the array trail[], which seems to survive from instance
> to instance of PathFind(). I thought that by calling self.PathFind
> (trail[:]), I was creating a new copy of trail[], 

Yes. But on the 'not solved' branch, you do mutate trail !-)


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Aug 21 05:08:08 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 19:08:08 +1000
Subject: Sanitising arguments to shell commands (was: Waiting for a subprocess
	to exit)
References: <873a7l21gr.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
Message-ID: <87ab1tlekn.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>

Miles Kaufmann  writes:

> I would recommend avoiding shell=True whenever possible. It's used in
> the examples, I suspect, to ease the transition from the functions
> being replaced, but all it takes is for a filename or some other input
> to unexpectedly contain whitespace or a metacharacter and your script
> will stop working--or worse, do damage (cf. the iTunes 2 installer
> debacle[1]).

Agreed, and that's my motivation for learning about ?subprocess.Popen?.

> Leaving shell=False makes scripts more secure and robust; besides,
> when I'm putting together a command and its arguments, it's as
> convenient to build a list (['mycmd', 'myarg']) as it is a string (if
> not more so).

Which leads to another issue:

I'm modifying a program that gets its child process command arguments
from three places:

* hard-coded text within the program (e.g. the command name, and
  context-specific arguments for the specific operation to be performed)

* user-customised options to be added to the command line

* filenames from the program's own command line

For the hard-coded argument text, obviously they can simply be
hard-coded as list elements::

    command_args = ["foo", "--bar"]

The filenames to be processed can also be appended one item per
filename.

However, the user-customised options are specified by the user in a
configuration file, as a single string argument::

    [fooprogram]
    additional_args = --baz 'crunch cronch' --wobble

This works fine if the command line is constructed by dumb string
concatenation; but obviously it fails when I try to construct a list of
command line arguments.

It's quite reasonable for the user to expect to be able to put any
partial shell command-line in that string option and expect it will be
processed by the shell, including any quoting or other escaping.

How can I take a string that is intended to be part of a command line,
representing multiple arguments and the shell's own escape characters as
in the above example, and end up with a sane command argument list for
?subprocess.Popen??

E.g.::

    parser = optparse.OptionParser()
    (options_args) = parser.parse_args(argv[1:])
    filenames = args

    config = configparser.ConfigParser()
    config.read([system_config_file_path, user_config_file_path])
    user_configured_args = config.get('fooprogram', 'additional_args')

    command_args = ["foo", "--bar"]
    somehow_append_each_argument(command_args, user_configured_args)
    command_args.extend(filenames)

    command_process = subprocess.Popen(command_args, shell=False)

The resulting ?command_args? list should be::

    ["foo", "--bar",
     "--baz", "crunch cronch", "--wobble",
     "spam.txt", "beans.txt"]

How can I write the ?somehow_append_each_argument? step to get that
result?

-- 
 \                ?Every sentence I utter must be understood not as an |
  `\                      affirmation, but as a question.? ?Niels Bohr |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Fri Aug 21 05:19:13 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 02:19:13 -0700
Subject: Sanitising arguments to shell commands (was: Waiting for a 
	subprocess to exit)
In-Reply-To: <87ab1tlekn.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
References: <873a7l21gr.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
	<87ab1tlekn.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908210219i5e02c0cbq2d63bff891624ef4@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 2:08 AM, Ben Finney wrote:

> How can I take a string that is intended to be part of a command line,
> representing multiple arguments and the shell's own escape characters as
> in the above example, and end up with a sane command argument list for
> ?subprocess.Popen??

http://docs.python.org/library/shlex.html

module shlex ? Simple lexical analysis
New in version 1.5.2.
"The shlex class makes it easy to write lexical analyzers for simple
syntaxes resembling that of the Unix shell."

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Aug 21 05:22:03 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 11:22:03 +0200
Subject: Sanitising arguments to shell commands
In-Reply-To: <87ab1tlekn.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
References: <873a7l21gr.fsf@benfinney.id.au>	
	<87ab1tlekn.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <4A8E673B.3060606@sequans.com>

Ben Finney wrote:
> Miles Kaufmann  writes:
>
>   
>> I would recommend avoiding shell=True whenever possible. It's used in
>> the examples, I suspect, to ease the transition from the functions
>> being replaced, but all it takes is for a filename or some other input
>> to unexpectedly contain whitespace or a metacharacter and your script
>> will stop working--or worse, do damage (cf. the iTunes 2 installer
>> debacle[1]).
>>     
>
> Agreed, and that's my motivation for learning about ?subprocess.Popen?.
>   

Can someone explain the difference with the shell argument ? giving for 
instance an example of what True will do that False won't. I mean, I've 
read the doc, and to be honest, I didn't get it.
I'm concerned because I'm using subprocess, but I guess my shell arg has 
been filled a little bit random..

JM


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Aug 21 05:26:54 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 19:26:54 +1000
Subject: Object Reference question
References: <2dcf41c3-6623-48d9-bb74-97f753088479@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8763chldpd.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

josef  writes:

> To be clear, Python uses a "Pass By Object Reference" model.

Yes. (I'm glad this concept has propagated to newcomers so well :-)

> x = 1
> x becomes the object reference

It becomes *a* reference to that object, independent of any other
references to that same object.

> while an object is created with the type 'int', value 1, and
> identifier (id(x)).

Not really ?while?. The object creation happens first, then the
assignment statement binds a reference to that object.

> Doing this with a class, x = myclass(), does the same thing, but with
> more or less object attributes. Every object has a type and an
> identifier (id()), according to the Python Language Reference for
> 2.6.2 section 3.1.

Any expression can be on the right side of the assignment operator. The
expression will evaluate to some object, which the assignment will then
bind to the reference on the left side of the assignment operator.

> x in both cases is the object reference.

It is *an* object reference; that is, it's an identifier which refers to
an object. There's nothing about that identifier that makes it ?the (one
and only) object reference?.

> I would like to use the object to refer to the object reference. If I
> have a gross misunderstanding, please correct me.

Yes, it's a simple misunderstanding: objects do not, in general, know
any of the references there may be to them.

> The following is what I would like to do: I have a list of class
> instances dk = [ a, b, c, d ], where a, b, c, d is an object
> reference.

Note that, after that list is created, each item in that list is *also*
a reference to the corresponding object. That is, ?a? is a reference to
an object, and ?dk[0]? is a *different* reference to the *same* object.
The object has no knowledge about those references.

> Entering dk gives me the object: [MyClass0 instance at 0x0000,
> MyClass1 instance at 0x0008, MyClass2 instance at 0x0010 ... ]

This is a hint that, when asked for a string representation, each of the
objects in that list can say little more than that they are of a
particular type, and are located at a particular memory address. They do
not know any of the references to themselves.

> I need the object reference name (a,b,c,d) from dk to use as input for
> a file.

You'll have to track that yourself.

A good way to keep track of name-to-object mappings is with Python's
built-in mapping type, ?dict?::

    dk = {'a': a, 'b': b, 'c': c, 'd': d}

(There are more efficient ways to create a dictionary without such
repetition, of course, but this is more illustrative of the point.)

You can then get a list (assembled in arbitrary sequence) of just the
keys, or just the values, or the key-value pairs, from the dict with its
?keys?, ?values?, and ?items? methods respectively::

    >>> dk = {'a': a, 'b': b, 'c': c, 'd': d}
    >>> dk.keys()
    ['a', 'c', 'd', 'b']
    >>> dk.values()
    [, , , ]
    >>> dk.items()
    [('b', ), ('c', ), ('a',  ), ('d',  )]

Each of these is even better used as the iterable for a ?for? loop::

    >>> for (key, value) in dk.items():
    ...     print "Here is item named", key
    ...     print value

> My main focus of this post is: "How do I find and use object reference
> memory locations?"

You don't. Use the references in your code, forget about the memory
addresses, and remember that container objects themselves contain
references, so use them for organising your objects.

-- 
 \     ?Demagogue: One who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to |
  `\                     men he knows to be idiots.? ?Henry L. Mencken |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Aug 21 06:18:29 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 20:18:29 +1000
Subject: Sanitising arguments to shell commands
References: <873a7l21gr.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
	<87ab1tlekn.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
	
Message-ID: <87ws4xjwqy.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Jean-Michel Pichavant  writes:

> Can someone explain the difference with the shell argument ? giving
> for instance an example of what True will do that False won't.

The ?shell? argument to the ?subprocess.Popen? constructor specifies
whether the command-line should be invoked directly (?shell=False?) or
indirectly through invoking a shell (?shell=True?).

If ?shell=False?, the command-line arguments are used as direct
arguments to the kernel's ?run this program for me?.

If ?shell=True? the command-line arguments are themselves passed to a
new instance of the user's current shell, as a command line that *it*
should invoke on the program's behalf. This allows the command line to
be manipulated and interpolated etc., the way it would be if typed at a
new shell prompt. Then, that shell will in turn ask the kernel ?run this
program for me? as it normally does after processing the arguments.

> I mean, I've read the doc, and to be honest, I didn't get it. I'm
> concerned because I'm using subprocess, but I guess my shell arg has
> been filled a little bit random..

Use ?shell=False? by default (which, since that's the default for
?subprocess.Popen?, means you can omit it entirely), and specify exactly
the command line arguments you want the kernel to execute. Only if you
know you want a shell process to be involved should you use
?shell=True?.

-- 
 \     ?Welchen Teil von ?Gestalt? verstehen Sie nicht?  [What part of |
  `\                ?gestalt? don't you understand?]? ?Karsten M. Self |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Aug 21 06:26:02 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 20:26:02 +1000
Subject: Sanitising arguments to shell commands
References: <873a7l21gr.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
	<87ab1tlekn.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
	
Message-ID: <87skfljwed.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Chris Rebert  writes:

> module shlex ? Simple lexical analysis
> New in version 1.5.2.
> "The shlex class makes it easy to write lexical analyzers for simple
> syntaxes resembling that of the Unix shell."

Exactly what I needed:

>>> import shlex
>>> user_configured_args = "--baz 'crunch cronch' --wobble"
>>> filenames = ["spam.txt", "beans.txt"]
>>> command_args = ["foo", "--bar"]
>>> command_args.extend(shlex.split(user_configured_args))
>>> command_args.extend(filenames)
>>> command_args
['foo', '--bar', '--baz', 'crunch cronch', '--wobble', 'spam.txt', 'beans.txt']

-- 
 \         ?Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?? ?I think so, |
  `\    Brain, but if we get Sam Spade, we'll never have any puppies.? |
_o__)                                           ?_Pinky and The Brain_ |
Ben Finney


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Fri Aug 21 06:31:33 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 07:31:33 -0300
Subject: Zipimport leaks memory?
References: <6CC019B5D220A147932441E798B252B910B0193FEF@NOK-EUMSG-05.mgdnok.nokia.com>
Message-ID: 

En Thu, 20 Aug 2009 07:02:26 -0300, ashwin.u.rao at nokia.com  
 escribi?:

> We are currently trying to identify and fix all the memory leaks by just  
> doing Py_Initialize-PyRun_SimpleFile(some simple script)-Py_Finalize and  
> found that there are around 70 malloc-ed blocks which are not freed. One  
> of the significant contributor to this number is the 'files' object in  
> ZipImporter.  I am not able to identify the reason for this leak and was  
> wondering if anyone on this list would help me out here.
>
> So, here goes :
>
> Since we have a zip file in our sys.path, this object is initialized and  
> added to the zip_directory_cache dict during Py_Initialize. One point to  
> note here is that there is no DECREF on the 'files' object after adding  
> it to the zip_directory_cache dict.
>
> When a module in a directory is imported(encoding.alias) then the  
> reference count of 'files' is increased. When this module is unloaded  
> during Py_Finalize-PyImport_Cleanup, the ref count of files object is  
> decremented properly. So at the end of Py_Finalize the files object  
> still has one reference count which is a result of it being an entry in  
> the zip_directory_cache.

I didn't read the source, but isn't that the expected behavior? If the  
module is still referenced by zip_directory_cache, the reference count  
must be 1 or more.
Maybe zip_directory_cache should be cleared at interpreter shutdown?

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From inigoserna at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 07:58:38 2009
From: inigoserna at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?ScOxaWdvIFNlcm5h?=)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 13:58:38 +0200
Subject: ncurses getch & unicode (was: decoding keyboard input when using 
	curses)
In-Reply-To: <0a683d75-ac07-40a6-8374-2a2e900ac0ba@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
References: <65a1d6f80908200936g18b235fcw49d0047168cf9548@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<0a683d75-ac07-40a6-8374-2a2e900ac0ba@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <65a1d6f80908210458hfa33699m398d9af6eab67674@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/21 Thomas Dickey :
> On Aug 20, 6:12?pm, I?igo Serna  wrote:
>> ??????? c = win.getch()
>
> You're using "getch", not "get_wch" (Python's ncurses binding may/may
> not have the latter).
> curses getch returns 8-bit values, get_wch would return wider values.

you are right, ncurses binding does not have get_wch, only getch, and
this last is the only one called in ncurses library bindings.


Anyway, I've written a patch to include the get_wch method in the bindings.
See http://bugs.python.org/issue6755


Thanks for the clarification,
I?igo


From georavel at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 21 08:46:07 2009
From: georavel at yahoo.com (Justin)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 05:46:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: list 'results' from maps.google then crawl
Message-ID: <81b5a7ba-49c7-4750-ad1d-5564973b6b8c@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>

list 'results' from maps.google then crawl through the (engine of some
sort) space to the 'results' website and look at it html to find the
contact


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Fri Aug 21 08:55:33 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:55:33 +0200
Subject: Sanitising arguments to shell commands
In-Reply-To: <87ws4xjwqy.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <873a7l21gr.fsf@benfinney.id.au>		<87ab1tlekn.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>	
	<87ws4xjwqy.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <4A8E9945.40906@sequans.com>

Ben Finney wrote:
> Jean-Michel Pichavant  writes:
>
>   
>> Can someone explain the difference with the shell argument ? giving
>> for instance an example of what True will do that False won't.
>>     
>
> The ?shell? argument to the ?subprocess.Popen? constructor specifies
> whether the command-line should be invoked directly (?shell=False?) or
> indirectly through invoking a shell (?shell=True?).
>
> If ?shell=False?, the command-line arguments are used as direct
> arguments to the kernel's ?run this program for me?.
>
> If ?shell=True? the command-line arguments are themselves passed to a
> new instance of the user's current shell, as a command line that *it*
> should invoke on the program's behalf. This allows the command line to
> be manipulated and interpolated etc., the way it would be if typed at a
> new shell prompt. Then, that shell will in turn ask the kernel ?run this
> program for me? as it normally does after processing the arguments.
>
>   
>> I mean, I've read the doc, and to be honest, I didn't get it. I'm
>> concerned because I'm using subprocess, but I guess my shell arg has
>> been filled a little bit random..
>>     
>
> Use ?shell=False? by default (which, since that's the default for
> ?subprocess.Popen?, means you can omit it entirely), and specify exactly
> the command line arguments you want the kernel to execute. Only if you
> know you want a shell process to be involved should you use
> ?shell=True?.
>
>   
Thank you Ben for the update. It's clear for me now, I've checked and I 
use it with no shell arg, except at one place, but I don't think it's 
intended and it happens to work anyway. I've added a small comment just 
in case it fails in the future.

JM


From rickbking at comcast.net  Fri Aug 21 09:07:04 2009
From: rickbking at comcast.net (Rick King)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 09:07:04 -0400
Subject: Sanitising arguments to shell commands
In-Reply-To: <50697b2c0908210219i5e02c0cbq2d63bff891624ef4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <873a7l21gr.fsf@benfinney.id.au>		<87ab1tlekn.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
	<50697b2c0908210219i5e02c0cbq2d63bff891624ef4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A8E9BF8.8040206@comcast.net>

shlex doesn't handle unicode input though, so, in general, it's not a 
good solution.

Rick King
Southfield MI

> http://docs.python.org/library/shlex.html
>
> module shlex ? Simple lexical analysis
> New in version 1.5.2.
> "The shlex class makes it easy to write lexical analyzers for simple
> syntaxes resembling that of the Unix shell."
>   


From countryone77 at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 21 09:34:04 2009
From: countryone77 at yahoo.com (Bev in TX)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 06:34:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Logging with SMTP Error on Mac
Message-ID: 

Hi,

I've done some Python programming, but I still consider myself a
Python newbie.  I have a Mac Pro OS X 10.5.8 system and I installed
Python 2.6.2 (the latest package available for the Mac) yesterday.

I was working through Matt Wilson's article on using the logging
module:
http://blog.tplus1.com/index.php/2007/09/28/the-python-logging-module-is-much-better-than-print-statements/
(If that does not work, then try: http://tinyurl.com/5v2lcy )

Everything worked great until his last example.  My ISP does not
provide e-mail, so I tried using gmail in the line that sets h2.  I
substituted "mailid" for my actual e-mail address in the following
examples; in my test I used my actual e-mail ID.  Also, I used the
full path to the newly installed Python 2.6.2; otherwise it picked up
the older Python 2.5:
#!/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/bin/python

First attempt:
h2 = logging.handlers.SMTPHandler('smtp.gmail.com', 'mailid at gmail.com',
['mailid at gmail.com'],'ERROR log')
However, that caused the following error to be issued:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/
python2.6/logging/handlers.py", line 868, in emit
    smtp.sendmail(self.fromaddr, self.toaddrs, msg)
  File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/
python2.6/smtplib.py", line 698, in sendmail
    raise SMTPSenderRefused(code, resp, from_addr)
SMTPSenderRefused: (530, '5.7.0 Must issue a STARTTLS command first.
7sm3867994qwf.47', 'mailid at gmail.com')

I also tried providing my gmail userid/password, I tried adding a 5th,
credential, argument, which is a tupple, (username,password) (new in
2.6).

Second attempt:
h2 = logging.handlers.SMTPHandler('smtp.gmail.com', 'mailid at gmail.com',
['mailid at gmail.com'],'ERROR log',('mailid at gmail.com','gmail-
password'))
However, that caused the following error message:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/
python2.6/logging/handlers.py", line 867, in emit
    smtp.login(self.username, self.password)
  File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/
python2.6/smtplib.py", line 552, in login
    raise SMTPException("SMTP AUTH extension not supported by
server.")
SMTPException: SMTP AUTH extension not supported by server.

I am able access gmail via Mac's Mail, in which it says that outgoing
mail is going to:
      smtp.gmail.com:mailid
I tried using that as the server in the Python script, but it could
not find that server.

Is this possible?  If I am doing something incorrectly, would someone
please indicate what it is?

Thanks,
Bev in TX


From fabio at aptana.com  Fri Aug 21 09:36:34 2009
From: fabio at aptana.com (Fabio Zadrozny)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 10:36:34 -0300
Subject: Pydev 1.4.8 Released
Message-ID: 

Hi All,

Pydev and Pydev Extensions 1.4.8 have been released

Details on Pydev Extensions: http://www.fabioz.com/pydev
Details on Pydev: http://pydev.sf.net
Details on its development: http://pydev.blogspot.com

Release Highlights in Pydev Extensions:
-----------------------------------------------------------------

* Created public API for starting/finishing debug server
* Import based on unresolved variables works correctly when the
document is changed
* Ignore error works correctly when the document is changed
* No longer showing the replace button for the search


Release Highlights in Pydev:
----------------------------------------------

* Debugger can jump to line
* Reloading module when code changes in the editor if inside debug session
* Usability improvement on the preferences pages (editor,
code-formatter, comment block and code-style showing examples)
* Pythonpath reported in the main tab was not correct for ironpython
launch configs
* Main module tab in launch configuration was not appearing for jython
* Multiline block comments considering the current indentation (and
working with tabs)
* Hover works correctly when the document is changed
* The interactive console no longer uses the UI thread (so, it doesn't
make eclipse halt anymore on slow requests to the shell)
* The interactive console save history now saves the contents in the
same way they're written
* When creating a python run, the classpath was being set (and
overridden), which should only happen in jython runs
* Fixed issue where a line with only tabs and a close parenthesis
would have additional tabs entered on code-formatting
* A Pydev (Jython) project can coexist with a JDT project (and
properly use its info -- only project references worked previously)
* Many small usability improvements (editors improved)
* Verbosity option added to run as unit-test
* No longer using respectJavaAccessibility=False for jython
* When there are too many items to show in the debugger, handle it gracefully



What is PyDev?
---------------------------

PyDev is a plugin that enables users to use Eclipse for Python, Jython
and Iron Python development -- making Eclipse a first class Python IDE
-- It comes with many goodies such as code completion, syntax
highlighting, syntax analysis, refactor, debug and many others.


Cheers,

-- 
Fabio Zadrozny
------------------------------------------------------
Software Developer

Aptana
http://aptana.com/python

Pydev Extensions
http://www.fabioz.com/pydev

Pydev - Python Development Environment for Eclipse
http://pydev.sf.net
http://pydev.blogspot.com


From jfine at pytex.org  Fri Aug 21 09:36:35 2009
From: jfine at pytex.org (Jonathan Fine)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:36:35 +0100
Subject: Using 'apply' as a decorator, to define constants
Message-ID: 

Hi

It might seem odd to use 'apply' as a decorator, but it can make sense.

I want to write:
     # Top level in module.
     tags =  
where the list is most easily constructed using a function.

And so I write:
     @apply
     def tags():
         value = []
         # complicated code
         return value

And now 'tags' has the result of running the complicated code.


Without using 'apply' as a decorator one alternative is
     def tmp():
         value = []
         # complicated code
         return value
     tags = tmp()
     del tmp


Like all uses of decorators, it is simply syntactic sugar.  It allows 
you to see, up front, what is going to happen.  I think, once I get used 
to it, I'll get to like it.

The way to read
     @apply
     def name():
          # code
is that we are defining 'name' to be the return value of the effectively 
anonymous function that follows.

-- 
Jonathan


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Fri Aug 21 09:37:44 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 15:37:44 +0200
Subject: list 'results' from maps.google then crawl
In-Reply-To: <81b5a7ba-49c7-4750-ad1d-5564973b6b8c@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
References: <81b5a7ba-49c7-4750-ad1d-5564973b6b8c@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a8ea328$0$31861$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>

Justin wrote:
> list 'results' from maps.google then crawl through the (engine of some
> sort) space to the 'results' website and look at it html to find the
> contact

Good idea. How do you know how to recognise the contact? He/she might come
disguised.

Stefan


From sajmikins at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 10:23:30 2009
From: sajmikins at gmail.com (Simon Forman)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 07:23:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Object Reference question
References: <2dcf41c3-6623-48d9-bb74-97f753088479@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 21, 2:07?am, josef  wrote:
> To begin, I'm new with python. I've read a few discussions about
> object references and I think I understand them.
>
> To be clear, Python uses a "Pass By Object Reference" model.
> x = 1
> x becomes the object reference, while an object is created with the
> type 'int', value 1, and identifier (id(x)). Doing this with a class,
> x = myclass(), does the same thing, but with more or less object
> attributes. Every object has a type and an identifier (id()),
> according to the Python Language Reference for 2.6.2 section 3.1.
>
> x in both cases is the object reference. I would like to use the
> object to refer to the object reference. If I have a gross
> misunderstanding, please correct me.

x is not the object reference, it's just a string used as a key in a
dict (the value is the object reference):

|>>> globals()
|{'__builtins__': , '__name__':
'__main__', '__doc__': None}
|>>> x = 1
|>>> globals()
|{'__builtins__': , '__name__':
'__main__', '__doc__': None, 'x': 1}


I don't understand what you're trying to do, but give up the idea of
"object reference memory locations".  Any name binding in python just
associates a string with a object in one of various namespace
dictionaries.

HTH,
~Simon


From tsuraan at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 10:50:01 2009
From: tsuraan at gmail.com (tsuraan)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 09:50:01 -0500
Subject: Conditionally skipping the contents of a with-statement
Message-ID: <84fb38e30908210750v212339c2x2c87df33c2fcf069@mail.gmail.com>

I'd like to write a Fork class to wrap os.fork that allows something like this:

with Fork():
  # to child stuff, end of block will automatically os._exit()
# parent stuff goes here

This would require (I think) that the __enter__ method of my Fork
class to be able to return a value or raise an exception indicating
that the block should not be run.  It looks like, from PEP343, any
exception thrown in the __enter__ isn't handled by with, and my basic
tests confirm this.  I could have __enter__ raise a custom exception
and wrap the entire with statement in a try/except block, but that
sort of defeats the purpose of the with statement.  Is there a clean
way for the context manager to signal that the execution of the block
should be skipped altogether?


From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Aug 21 11:02:08 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 17:02:08 +0200
Subject: Conditionally skipping the contents of a with-statement
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7f7r7hF2i7ba6U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

tsuraan schrieb:
> I'd like to write a Fork class to wrap os.fork that allows something like this:
> 
> with Fork():
>   # to child stuff, end of block will automatically os._exit()
> # parent stuff goes here
> 
> This would require (I think) that the __enter__ method of my Fork
> class to be able to return a value or raise an exception indicating
> that the block should not be run.  It looks like, from PEP343, any
> exception thrown in the __enter__ isn't handled by with, and my basic
> tests confirm this.  I could have __enter__ raise a custom exception
> and wrap the entire with statement in a try/except block, but that
> sort of defeats the purpose of the with statement.  Is there a clean
> way for the context manager to signal that the execution of the block
> should be skipped altogether?

No. The only way would be something like this:

with Fork() as is_child:
     if is_child:
        ...



Diez


From mhecht2909 at instant-mail.de  Fri Aug 21 11:31:34 2009
From: mhecht2909 at instant-mail.de (M. Hecht)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 08:31:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Three-Phase-Diagrams with matplotlib
Message-ID: <25082083.post@talk.nabble.com>


Hello,

does anyone know whether it is possible to draw three-phase-diagrams with
matplotlib?

A three-phase-diagram is a triangular diagram applied in chemistry e.g. for
slags where
one has three main components of a chemical substance at the corners and
points or lines 
within the triangle marking different compositions of the substances in
percent, e.g.
in metallurgy 20% Al2O3, 45% CaO and 35% SiO2.


-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Three-Phase-Diagrams-with-matplotlib-tp25082083p25082083.html
Sent from the Python - python-list mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Aug 21 11:36:53 2009
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 17:36:53 +0200
Subject: pypi category
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A8EBF15.2090006@v.loewis.de>

> Would someone be able to inform me how a category can be added to the
> pypy list of categories?
> I'd like to add a CAD & Geometry category.
> ( I develop PythonOCC, wrappers for the OpenCASCADE CAD kernel, which
> is why )

Make a specific proposal to catalog-sig at lists.python.org, along with a
list of packages that are already on PyPI that could use that
classifier.

Having a classifier that classifies zero or one package is pointless.

Regards,
Martin


From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Aug 21 11:39:09 2009
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 17:39:09 +0200
Subject: 2.6 windows install
In-Reply-To: <1e18d400-03ec-48ae-b59d-72aa6f5d9f64@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<1e18d400-03ec-48ae-b59d-72aa6f5d9f64@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A8EBF9D.6020306@v.loewis.de>

> Did you install Python to the network device from your XP box? That
> would explain why you can run it: the required registry settings &
> environment variables are added by the installer, none of which is
> occurring on any computer other than the one from which you installed.

In principle, Python doesn't need any registry settings or environment
variables in order to run.

Regards,
Martin


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 12:09:02 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 09:09:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Using 'apply' as a decorator, to define constants
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 21, 11:36?pm, Jonathan Fine  wrote:
> It might seem odd to use 'apply' as a decorator, but it can make sense.

Yes, it's an idiom I've used myself for property declarations, but one
I find myself using less often:

class ColourThing(object):
    @apply
    def rgb():
        def fset(self, rgb):
            self.r, self.g, self.b = rgb
        def fget(self):
            return (self.r, self.g, self.b)
        return property(**locals())

Unfortunately, apply() has been removed as a built-in in 3.x. I'm not
sure if it has been relocated to a module somewhere, there's no
mention of such in the docs.

> Without using 'apply' as a decorator one alternative is
> ? ? ?def tmp():
> ? ? ? ? ?value = []
> ? ? ? ? ?# complicated code
> ? ? ? ? ?return value
> ? ? ?tags = tmp()
> ? ? ?del tmp

You can save yourself the tidy up by using the same name for the
function & the label:

    def tags():
        value = []
        # ...
        return value
    tags = tags()

> Like all uses of decorators, it is simply syntactic sugar. ?It allows
> you to see, up front, what is going to happen. ?I think, once I get used
> to it, I'll get to like it.

The question is, is it really that useful, or is it just a slight
aesthetic variation? Given that apply(f, args, kwargs) is identical to
f(*args, **kwargs), it's understandable that's apply() isn't seen as
worth keeping in the language.

Why I've personally stopped using it: I've always had the impression
that decorators were intended to provide a convenient and obvious way
of augmenting functions. Having one that automatically executes the
function at definition just runs counter to the behaviour I expect
from a decorator. Especially when direct assignment... foo = foo
() ...is a far more direct and clear way of expressing exactly what is
happening.

But that's all IMO, if you feel it makes your code cleaner and don't
plan on moving to 3.x any time soon (come on in! the water's great!),
go for it :)


From josefg at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 12:12:36 2009
From: josefg at gmail.com (josef)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 09:12:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Object Reference question
References: <2dcf41c3-6623-48d9-bb74-97f753088479@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<8763chldpd.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 21, 4:26?am, Ben Finney  wrote:
> josef  writes:
> > To be clear, Python uses a "Pass By Object Reference" model.
>
> Yes. (I'm glad this concept has propagated to newcomers so well :-)

I found one really good discussion on python semantics versus other
languages. It gave me this gem of a quote:

"When I turn on the TV and see Chuck Norris, though, I know it's only
a reference to Chuck Norris, or I would be blinded.  The only case he
needs is "Pass By Roundhouse Kick"." -Chuckk

>
> > x = 1
> > x becomes the object reference
>
> It becomes *a* reference to that object, independent of any other
> references to that same object.
>
> > while an object is created with the type 'int', value 1, and
> > identifier (id(x)).
>
> Not really ?while?. The object creation happens first, then the
> assignment statement binds a reference to that object.
>
> > Doing this with a class, x = myclass(), does the same thing, but with
> > more or less object attributes. Every object has a type and an
> > identifier (id()), according to the Python Language Reference for
> > 2.6.2 section 3.1.
>
> Any expression can be on the right side of the assignment operator. The
> expression will evaluate to some object, which the assignment will then
> bind to the reference on the left side of the assignment operator.
>
> > x in both cases is the object reference.
>
> It is *an* object reference; that is, it's an identifier which refers to
> an object. There's nothing about that identifier that makes it ?the (one
> and only) object reference?.
>
> > I would like to use the object to refer to the object reference. If I
> > have a gross misunderstanding, please correct me.
>
> Yes, it's a simple misunderstanding: objects do not, in general, know
> any of the references there may be to them.
>
> > The following is what I would like to do: I have a list of class
> > instances dk = [ a, b, c, d ], where a, b, c, d is an object
> > reference.
>
> Note that, after that list is created, each item in that list is *also*
> a reference to the corresponding object. That is, ?a? is a reference to
> an object, and ?dk[0]? is a *different* reference to the *same* object.
> The object has no knowledge about those references.

This is surprising. My initial thought is that dk[0] hold the object
reference 'a,' but that wouldn't be true "pass by object reference."
When defining the object reference dk[0], python takes the object
reference 'a,' finds the object MyClass0(), and then assigns the
object identity to dk[0]? Or something close to that.

>
> > Entering dk gives me the object: [MyClass0 instance at 0x0000,
> > MyClass1 instance at 0x0008, MyClass2 instance at 0x0010 ... ]
>
> This is a hint that, when asked for a string representation, each of the
> objects in that list can say little more than that they are of a
> particular type, and are located at a particular memory address. They do
> not know any of the references to themselves.
>
> > I need the object reference name (a,b,c,d) from dk to use as input for
> > a file.
>
> You'll have to track that yourself.

I'm a bit shocked that there isn't a method for catching object
reference names. I think that something like a = MyClass0(name =
'a', ...) is a bit redundant. Are definitions treated the same way?
How would one print or pass function names?

>
> A good way to keep track of name-to-object mappings is with Python's
> built-in mapping type, ?dict?::
>
> ? ? dk = {'a': a, 'b': b, 'c': c, 'd': d}
>
> (There are more efficient ways to create a dictionary without such
> repetition, of course, but this is more illustrative of the point.)
>
> You can then get a list (assembled in arbitrary sequence) of just the
> keys, or just the values, or the key-value pairs, from the dict with its
> ?keys?, ?values?, and ?items? methods respectively::
>
> ? ? >>> dk = {'a': a, 'b': b, 'c': c, 'd': d}
> ? ? >>> dk.keys()
> ? ? ['a', 'c', 'd', 'b']
> ? ? >>> dk.values()
> ? ? [, , , ]
> ? ? >>> dk.items()
> ? ? [('b', ), ('c', ), ('a', ?), ('d', ?)]
>
> Each of these is even better used as the iterable for a ?for? loop::
>
> ? ? >>> for (key, value) in dk.items():
> ? ? ... ? ? print "Here is item named", key
> ? ? ... ? ? print value

I think I'll just add a 'name' to the classes' init defintion.

>
> > My main focus of this post is: "How do I find and use object reference
> > memory locations?"
>
> You don't. Use the references in your code, forget about the memory
> addresses, and remember that container objects themselves contain
> references, so use them for organising your objects.
>
> --
> ?\ ? ? ?Demagogue: One who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to |
> ? `\ ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? men he knows to be idiots.? ?Henry L. Mencken |
> _o__) ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?|
> Ben Finney

Thanks,

Josef


From jamie.ivanov at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 12:33:57 2009
From: jamie.ivanov at gmail.com (Jamie)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 09:33:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Problem with winreg - The object is not a PyHKEY object
Message-ID: 

My goal is to remotely remove the registry keys for McAfee. I don't
know how winreg handles an exception if a key doesn't exist, but I
setup my script to skip the exception. But it doesn't seem to work
right.. I think the script should be self explanitory, please help!
Please forgive me, but I'm a python newbie.

## SCRIPT ##

import _winreg

print "Removing McAfee registry entries"
hkey = _winreg.ConnectRegistry(r'\
\000000439140PC',_winreg.HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE)
try:
_winreg.DeleteKey('SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Enum
\Root','LEGACY_MFEAPFK')
except:
pass

#try:
_winreg.DeleteKey('\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Enum
\Root','LEGACY_MFEAVFK')
#except:
# pass

try:
_winreg.DeleteKey('\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Enum
\Root','LEGACY_MFEBOPK')
except:
pass

try:
_winreg.DeleteKey('\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Enum
\Root','LEGACY_MFEHIDK')
except:
pass

try:
_winreg.DeleteKey('\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Enum
\Root','LEGACY_MFEHIDK01')
except:
pass

try:
_winreg.DeleteKey('\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Enum
\Root','LEGACY_MFERKDK')
except:
pass

try:
_winreg.DeleteKey('\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Enum
\Root','LEGACY_MFETDIK')
except:
pass

try:
_winreg.DeleteKey('\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Enum
\Root','LEGACY_NAIAVFILTER1')
except:
pass

try:
_winreg.DeleteKey('\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Enum
\Root','LEGACY_NAIAVFILTER101')
except:
pass

try:
_winreg.DeleteKey('\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Enum
\Root','LEGACY_MCSHIELD')
except:
pass

try:
_winreg.DeleteKey('\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Enum
\Root','MCTASKMANAGER')
except:
pass

try:
_winreg.DeleteKey('\SOFTWARE','McAfee')
except:
pass

try:
_winreg.DeleteKey('\SOFTWARE','Network Associates')
except:
pass

try:
_winreg.DeleteKey('\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services','AlertManager')
except:
pass

try:
_winreg.DeleteKey('\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet
\Services','McAfeeFramework')
except:
pass

try:
_winreg.DeleteKey('\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services','McShield')
except:
pass

try:
_winreg.DeleteKey('\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet
\Services','McTaskManager')
except:
pass

try:
_winreg.DeleteKey('\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services','mfeapfk')
except:
pass

try:
_winreg.DeleteKey('\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services','mfeavfk')
except:
pass

try:
_winreg.DeleteKey('\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services','mfebopk')
except:
pass

try:
_winreg.DeleteKey('\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services','mfehidk')
except:
pass

try:
_winreg.DeleteKey('\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services','mfehidk01')
except:
pass

try:
_winreg.DeleteKey('\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services','mferkdk')
except:
pass

try:
_winreg.DeleteKey('\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services','mfetdik')
except:
pass

try:
_winreg.DeleteKey('\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services','NaiAvFilter1')
except:
pass

try:
_winreg.DeleteKey('\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet
\Services','NaiAvFilter101')
except:
pass

## END SCRIPT ##

## OUTPUT ##
Removing McAfee registry entries
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "uninstallMcafee.py", line 11, in 
_winreg.DeleteKey('\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Enum
\Root','LEGACY_MFEAVFK')
TypeError: The object is not a PyHKEY object
## END OUTPUT ##


From 71david at libero.it  Fri Aug 21 12:35:07 2009
From: 71david at libero.it (David)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 18:35:07 +0200
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: <2h2hwo918umw.1ihpdwjimzge8$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<7f5pohF2k259vU1@mid.dfncis.de>
Message-ID: <12e1y7snryy06$.1r84z897tmw7u$.dlg@40tude.net>

Il Thu, 20 Aug 2009 22:24:24 +0200, Johannes Bauer ha scritto:

> David schrieb:
> 
>> If I want an octal I'll use oct()! 
>> 
>> "Explicit is better than implicit..."
> 
> A leading "0" *is* explicit.

It isn't explicit enough, at least IMO.


regards
David


From 71david at libero.it  Fri Aug 21 12:40:55 2009
From: 71david at libero.it (David)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 18:40:55 +0200
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: <2h2hwo918umw.1ihpdwjimzge8$.dlg@40tude.net>
	
Message-ID: <14hj3v50qg77e$.1pk6i6w7h7q6s.dlg@40tude.net>

Il Thu, 20 Aug 2009 15:18:35 -0700 (PDT), Mensanator ha scritto:

> (Just kidding! That works in 2.5 also. How are you using it where
> it's coming out wrong? I can see you pulling '012' out of a text
> file and want to calculate with it, but how would you use a
> string without using int()? Passing it to functions that allow
> string representations of numbers?)

Obviously it's not a progamming issue, just a hassle using the interpreter
on command line.

David


From Kevin.Smith at sixquickrun.com  Fri Aug 21 12:43:31 2009
From: Kevin.Smith at sixquickrun.com (Kevin D. Smith)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 11:43:31 -0500
Subject: 2.6 windows install
References:  <4A8EBF9D.6020306@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-21 10:39:09 -0500, "Martin v. L?wis"  said:

>> Did you install Python to the network device from your XP box? That
>> would explain why you can run it: the required registry settings &
>> environment variables are added by the installer, none of which is
>> occurring on any computer other than the one from which you installed.
> 
> In principle, Python doesn't need any registry settings or environment
> variables in order to run.

That may be true, but it doesn't explain why python won't run.  I'm 
guessing that it has something to do with the msvc*90.dll files not 
getting installed.  If those dlls haven't been previously installed, 
they won't be on the client machine in order for python to use them.  
However, I haven't had any luck installing these files manually and 
getting python to work that way.

-- 
Kevin D. Smith



From 71david at libero.it  Fri Aug 21 12:46:09 2009
From: 71david at libero.it (David)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 18:46:09 +0200
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: <2h2hwo918umw.1ihpdwjimzge8$.dlg@40tude.net>
	
Message-ID: <1bzp9xkx7u4a4$.hp3xb39tz5vv.dlg@40tude.net>

Il Thu, 20 Aug 2009 16:59:14 -0700 (PDT), James Harris ha scritto:

> 
> It maybe made sense once but this relic of the past should have been
> consigned to the waste bin of history long ago.

I perfectly agree with you!

David.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Aug 21 12:58:25 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 17:58:25 +0100
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: <12e1y7snryy06$.1r84z897tmw7u$.dlg@40tude.net>
References: <2h2hwo918umw.1ihpdwjimzge8$.dlg@40tude.net>	<7f5pohF2k259vU1@mid.dfncis.de>
	<12e1y7snryy06$.1r84z897tmw7u$.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <4A8ED231.3010409@mrabarnett.plus.com>

David wrote:
> Il Thu, 20 Aug 2009 22:24:24 +0200, Johannes Bauer ha scritto:
> 
>> David schrieb:
>>
>>> If I want an octal I'll use oct()! 
>>>
>>> "Explicit is better than implicit..."
>> A leading "0" *is* explicit.
> 
> It isn't explicit enough, at least IMO.
> 
Is this better?

Python 3.1 (r31:73574, Jun 26 2009, 20:21:35) [MSC v.1500 32 bit 
(Intel)] on win
32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> 010
   File "", line 1
     010
       ^

I would've preferred it to be decimal unless there's a prefix:

Python 3.1 (r31:73574, Jun 26 2009, 20:21:35) [MSC v.1500 32 bit 
(Intel)] on win
32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> 0x10
16
 >>> 0o10
8

Ah well, something for Python 4. :-)


From michele.petrazz at REMOTEME_unipex.it  Fri Aug 21 13:14:07 2009
From: michele.petrazz at REMOTEME_unipex.it (Michele Petrazzo)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 19:14:07 +0200
Subject: PIL and Python
In-Reply-To: <5df342cf-c742-42d6-bc8c-97a3c44a0816@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<9683190f-3c99-49d6-93d1-d8966d38d7a6@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<5df342cf-c742-42d6-bc8c-97a3c44a0816@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

catafest wrote:
> I don't extract data from jpegs. I wanna put some data in this
> (copyright of my site) ...
> 

My wrap for freeimage, called freeimagepy :) can't, as now, wrote exif
information on the image, but since freeimage can do it, I think that
it's not so difficult to add this type of feature.
If you have some time for investigate and create a patch, I'll be happy
to include it into the mainline!

Contact me directly if you want to talk of need some help on how do it.

Michele


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 13:22:04 2009
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 10:22:04 -0700
Subject: Problem with winreg - The object is not a PyHKEY object
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7a9c25c20908211022l751a2df8r5476887515272f1f@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 9:33 AM, Jamie  wrote:

> My goal is to remotely remove the registry keys for McAfee. I don't
> know how winreg handles an exception if a key doesn't exist, but I
> setup my script to skip the exception. But it doesn't seem to work
> right.. I think the script should be self explanitory, please help!
> Please forgive me, but I'm a python newbie.
>
> ## SCRIPT ##
>
> import _winreg
>
> print "Removing McAfee registry entries"
> hkey = _winreg.ConnectRegistry(r'\
> \000000439140PC',_winreg.HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE)
> try:
> _winreg.DeleteKey('SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Enum\Root','LEGACY_MFEAPFK')
> except:
> pass
>

You have to "open" the key first-- the first argument to .DeleteKey is not a
string.

E.g., do:

key = _winreg.OpenKey(_winreg.HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE,
r'SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Enum\Root')
_winreg.DeleteKey(key, 'LEGACY_MFEAPFK'
_winreg.CloseKey(key)

The above is an example off the top of my head, not actually tested-- But
that's sorta your problem, I believe: .DeleteKey operates on a key /handle/
in its first argument, not a string. The second argument is a string.

HTH,

--S
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From ryniek90 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 13:33:29 2009
From: ryniek90 at gmail.com (ryniek90)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 19:33:29 +0200
Subject: TypeError while checking for permissions with os.access() on windows
	xp
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A8EDA69.6030103@gmail.com>

I've got some code that checks priviliges on two paths:
First - chosen by user
Second - hardcoded home directory represented by **os.getenv('HOME')** - 
(os.getenv('HOME') works both on Linux and Windows)

Here's the code:
"
def __check_set_perm(self, rd_obj_path, backup_dest):

        try:

            if os.path.exists(rd_obj_path):
                if os.access(rd_obj_path, os.R_OK) != True:
                    print "Have no permissions on [%s] for reading 
operation.\nTrying to set them..." % os.path.split(rd_obj_path)[1]
                    if not os.path.isdir(rd_obj_path):
                        os.chmod(rd_obj_path, stat.S_IREAD)
                    else:
                        for root, dirs, files in os.walk(rd_obj_path):
                            for f in files:
                                os.chmod(os.path.join(root, f), 
stat.S_IREAD)
                    print "Get permissions for reading on [%s] 
successfully." % os.path.split(rd_obj_path)[1]
                else:
                    print "Have permissions on [%s] for reading." % 
os.path.split(rd_obj_path)[1]

                if os.access(backup_dest, os.W_OK) != True:
                    print "Have no permissions on [%s] for writing 
operation.\nTrying to set them..." % os.path.split(backup_dest)[1]
                    os.chmod(backup_dest, stat.S_IWRITE)
                    print "Get permissions for reading on [%s] 
successfully." % os.path.split(backup_dest)[1]
                else:
                    print "Have permissions on [%s] for writing." % 
os.path.split(backup_dest)[1]
            else:
                return "Can't find specified path - [%s]." % rd_obj_path
                sys.exit(0)

        except (Except), ex:
            return ex
"


This code is part of my backup script. When script checks for reading 
permission on 'user chosen path' it seems ok, but when it checks for 
writing permissions on 'home directory', (this line: **if 
os.access(backup_dest, os.W_OK) != True**), i get error:
**TypeError: coercing to Unicode: need string or buffer, NoneType found**
The second os.access check fails, but don't know why. When i turned 
os.W_OK to integer, i get the same error.
But when changed os.W_OK or that int to string, i get error that integer 
is required. I'm launching this code on WinXP Prof+SP3, on Administrator 
account. Is it bug in os.acces() or my code is written wrong?
Btw. i kow that os.chmod in windows can set only read-olny flag, so 
later i'll change the line with **os.chmod(path, stat.S_IWRITE)**

Thanks and cheers.


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Fri Aug 21 13:36:00 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 19:36:00 +0200
Subject: Python and PHP encryption/decryption
References: 
	<7f36e3F2it5a5U2@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: 

>>>>> "Diez B. Roggisch"  (DBR) wrote:

>DBR> Jean-Claude Neveu schrieb:
>>> I'm looking for a recommendation about encryption/decryption packages for
>>> Python.
>>> 
>>> I'm working on a project that will require me to store some values in a
>>> database in encrypted format. I'll be storing them from a PHP script and
>>> retrieving them (decrypting them) using Python. I'm currently using PHP's
>>> mcrypt package to encrypt the values, and I'm using AES for encryption,
>>> so something AES-compatible would be ideal. However, the project is at
>>> the development stage so I can easily change how I'm encrypting things in
>>> PHP if there is a compelling reason on the Python side of things to do
>>> so.

>DBR> With PyCrypto[1] you have a wide range of choices, amongst others AES.

>DBR> If that's the best algorithm, or even the best python-package to implement
>DBR> it, I don't know.


>DBR> [1] http://www.dlitz.net/software/pycrypto/

Pycrypto had been stalled in development. The latest release was in
2005. There is now a new developer and that it were the link above goes,
but he has not yet released anything. so you will have to do with the
2005 release.

There is an alternative library: m2crypto
(http://chandlerproject.org/Projects/MeTooCrypto). It is built on top of
OpenSSL which is available for most platforms that have Python whereas
Pycrypto has its own C implementations of crypto algorithms. M2crypto
has a recent release. Also I think because OpenSSL is widely used, its
vulnerabilities are easier detected and corrected, whereas I don't think
that is the case for Pycrypto.

M2crypto is much bigger than you need for this project, however. If that
doesn't bother you I would recommend it.

-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From mensanator at aol.com  Fri Aug 21 13:36:35 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 10:36:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: <2h2hwo918umw.1ihpdwjimzge8$.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	<14hj3v50qg77e$.1pk6i6w7h7q6s.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 21, 11:40?am, David <71da... at libero.it> wrote:
> Il Thu, 20 Aug 2009 15:18:35 -0700 (PDT), Mensanator ha scritto:
>
> > (Just kidding! That works in 2.5 also. How are you using it where
> > it's coming out wrong? I can see you pulling '012' out of a text
> > file and want to calculate with it, but how would you use a
> > string without using int()? Passing it to functions that allow
> > string representations of numbers?)
>
> Obviously it's not a progamming issue, just a hassle using the interpreter
> on command line.

Aha! Then I WAS right after all. Switch to 3.1 and you'll
soon be cured of that bad habit:

>>> 012 + 012
SyntaxError: invalid token (, line 1)


>
> David



From nagle at animats.com  Fri Aug 21 13:45:51 2009
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 10:45:51 -0700
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: <6a523329-3287-4271-ba37-7be450cfc5f6@d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <2h2hwo918umw.1ihpdwjimzge8$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<6a523329-3287-4271-ba37-7be450cfc5f6@d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a8edc29$0$1599$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

Simon Forman wrote:
> On Aug 20, 3:06 pm, David <71da... at libero.it> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Is there some magic to make the 2.x CPython interpreter to ignore the
>> annoying octal notation?
> 
> No.  You would have to modify and recompile the interpreter. This is
> not exactly trivial, see "How to Change Python's Grammar"
> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0306/
> 
> However, see "Integer Literal Support and Syntax" http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3127/
> 
> (Basically in 2.6 and onwards you can use 0oNNN notation.)

     Yes, and making lead zeros an error as suggested in PEP 3127 is a good idea.
It will be interesting to see what bugs that flushes out.

     In 2009, Unisys finally exited the mainframe hardware business, and the
last of the 36-bit machines, the ClearPath servers, are being phased out.
That line of machines goes back to the UNIVAC 2200 series, and the UNIVAC
1100 series, all the way back to the vacuum-tube UNIVAC 1103 from 1952.
It's the longest running series of computers in history, and code for all
those machines used octal heavily.

     And it's over.  We can finally dispense with octal by default.

					John Nagle


From dickinsm at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 13:49:20 2009
From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 10:49:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python on Crays
References: 
Message-ID: <1f5c81d8-4f79-4eea-b1bd-af48ab9ddc82@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 21, 12:21?am, Carrie Farberow  wrote:
> I am trying to build a statically-linked Python based on directions at:
>
> http://yt.enzotools.org/wiki/CrayXT5Installation
>
> I have tried this on multiple systems. ?The first time I attempt to build python, 'make' runs fine but 'make install' fails with the following error:
>
> Sorry: UnicodeError: ("\\N escapes not supported (can't load unicodedata module)",)
>
> Any help regarding the source of this error and possible fixes would be appreciated.

Hmm.  There's not a lot of information to go on here.
What version of Python is this? Python 2.6.2?
Have you tried Googling for that exact error message?

The following issue looks as though it might be relevant:

http://bugs.python.org/issue1594809

especially since it looks as though the directions you linked
to involve messing with the PYTHONPATH environment variable.

If you could post a log somewhere[*] showing the exact commands
that you executed, along with all the output (and especially
all the output from 'make' and 'make install'), that might help
someone diagnose the problem further.

Mark

[*] I'm not sure where, though.  Posting all that output directly
in a newsgroup message might not be considered very friendly.


From sajmikins at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 13:54:13 2009
From: sajmikins at gmail.com (Simon Forman)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 10:54:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Object Reference question
References: <2dcf41c3-6623-48d9-bb74-97f753088479@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<8763chldpd.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 21, 12:12?pm, josef  wrote:
> > > I need the object reference name (a,b,c,d) from dk to use as input for
> > > a file.
>
> > You'll have to track that yourself.
>
> I'm a bit shocked that there isn't a method for catching object
> reference names. I think that something like a = MyClass0(name =
> 'a', ...) is a bit redundant. Are definitions treated the same way?
> How would one print or pass function names?

There's no such thing as "object reference names".  Object references
do not have names.

When you run a piece of code like "a = object()" a string "a" is used
as a key in a dictionary and the value is the "object reference".

Consider:

[None][0] = object()

(Create an anonymous list object with one item in it and immediately
replace that item with an anonymous object instance.)

There's no name to catch.

Objects know nothing about their "enclosing" namespace. So if you want
them to have names you have to explicitly give them name attributes.
(However, this won't affect their enclosing namespaces.)

As Bruno said, think of "foo = something" as shorthand for
"some_namespace_dictionary['foo'] = something".


The two exceptions to this are 'def' and 'class' statements which both
create name->object (key, value) pairs in their current namespace AND
give the objects they create '__name__' attributes (pretty much just
as an aid to debugging.)

In [1]: def foo(): pass
   ...:

In [2]: foo.__name__
Out[2]: 'foo'

In [3]: class foo(): pass
   ...:

In [4]: foo.__name__
Out[4]: 'foo'


> > A good way to keep track of name-to-object mappings is with Python's
> > built-in mapping type, ?dict?::
>
> > ? ? dk = {'a': a, 'b': b, 'c': c, 'd': d}
>
> > (There are more efficient ways to create a dictionary without such
> > repetition, of course, but this is more illustrative of the point.)
>
> > You can then get a list (assembled in arbitrary sequence) of just the
> > keys, or just the values, or the key-value pairs, from the dict with its
> > ?keys?, ?values?, and ?items? methods respectively::
>
> > ? ? >>> dk = {'a': a, 'b': b, 'c': c, 'd': d}
> > ? ? >>> dk.keys()
> > ? ? ['a', 'c', 'd', 'b']
> > ? ? >>> dk.values()
> > ? ? [, , , ]
> > ? ? >>> dk.items()
> > ? ? [('b', ), ('c', ), ('a', ?), ('d', ?)]
>
> > Each of these is even better used as the iterable for a ?for? loop::
>
> > ? ? >>> for (key, value) in dk.items():
> > ? ? ... ? ? print "Here is item named", key
> > ? ? ... ? ? print value
>
> I think I'll just add a 'name' to the classes' init defintion.

That's the way to do it. :]



From ronn.ross at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 14:14:32 2009
From: ronn.ross at gmail.com (Ronn Ross)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:14:32 -0400
Subject: convert date time
Message-ID: <9c8c445f0908211114x52989399m9dff884ccdd43ad0@mail.gmail.com>

I'm new to python and I'm getting a date time from a field in the database
that looks like this:
8/2/2009 8:36:16 AM (UTC)

I want to split it into two fields one with the date formatted like this:
YYYY-MM-DD  2009-08-02

and the time to be 24 hour or military time. How every you call it. Similar
to this:
15:22:00

I found it easy to truncate off the (UTC), but having trouble converting the
date. Can someone point me in the right direction?
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From sajmikins at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 14:20:53 2009
From: sajmikins at gmail.com (Simon Forman)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 11:20:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: TypeError while checking for permissions with os.access() on 
	windows xp
References:  
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 21, 1:33?pm, ryniek90  wrote:
> I've got some code that checks priviliges on two paths:
> First - chosen by user
> Second - hardcoded home directory represented by **os.getenv('HOME')** -
> (os.getenv('HOME') works both on Linux and Windows)
>
> Here's the code:
> "
> def __check_set_perm(self, rd_obj_path, backup_dest):
>
> ? ? ? ? try:
>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? if os.path.exists(rd_obj_path):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? if os.access(rd_obj_path, os.R_OK) != True:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print "Have no permissions on [%s] for reading
> operation.\nTrying to set them..." % os.path.split(rd_obj_path)[1]
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? if not os.path.isdir(rd_obj_path):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? os.chmod(rd_obj_path, stat.S_IREAD)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? else:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? for root, dirs, files in os.walk(rd_obj_path):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? for f in files:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? os.chmod(os.path.join(root, f),
> stat.S_IREAD)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print "Get permissions for reading on [%s]
> successfully." % os.path.split(rd_obj_path)[1]
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? else:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print "Have permissions on [%s] for reading." %
> os.path.split(rd_obj_path)[1]
>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? if os.access(backup_dest, os.W_OK) != True:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print "Have no permissions on [%s] for writing
> operation.\nTrying to set them..." % os.path.split(backup_dest)[1]
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? os.chmod(backup_dest, stat.S_IWRITE)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print "Get permissions for reading on [%s]
> successfully." % os.path.split(backup_dest)[1]
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? else:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? print "Have permissions on [%s] for writing." %
> os.path.split(backup_dest)[1]
> ? ? ? ? ? ? else:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? return "Can't find specified path - [%s]." % rd_obj_path
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? sys.exit(0)
>
> ? ? ? ? except (Except), ex:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? return ex
> "
>
> This code is part of my backup script. When script checks for reading
> permission on 'user chosen path' it seems ok, but when it checks for
> writing permissions on 'home directory', (this line: **if
> os.access(backup_dest, os.W_OK) != True**), i get error:
> **TypeError: coercing to Unicode: need string or buffer, NoneType found**
> The second os.access check fails, but don't know why. When i turned
> os.W_OK to integer, i get the same error.
> But when changed os.W_OK or that int to string, i get error that integer
> is required. I'm launching this code on WinXP Prof+SP3, on Administrator
> account. Is it bug in os.acces() or my code is written wrong?
> Btw. i kow that os.chmod in windows can set only read-olny flag, so
> later i'll change the line with **os.chmod(path, stat.S_IWRITE)**
>
> Thanks and cheers.

First, some nitpicking: Include the whole traceback when posting about
errors please.  Don't write "if some_boolean_expression != True:"
instead prefer "if not some_boolean_expression:".  Also, in your code
"except (Except), ex: return ex" the parentheses are redundant,
there's no "Except" Exception (unless you created one yourself) and
why are you catching and returning the Exception object?  (Also,
what's that "sys.exit(0)" doing in there? And why exit with 0 if there
was a problem? Exit code 0 means "no problem".)


Second, from what you've said backup_dest must be None:

>>> import os
>>> os.access(None, os.W_OK)

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
    os.access(None, os.W_OK)
TypeError: coercing to Unicode: need string or buffer, NoneType found



From darcy at druid.net  Fri Aug 21 14:26:38 2009
From: darcy at druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:26:38 -0400
Subject: convert date time
In-Reply-To: <9c8c445f0908211114x52989399m9dff884ccdd43ad0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9c8c445f0908211114x52989399m9dff884ccdd43ad0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090821142638.92d91382.darcy@druid.net>

On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:14:32 -0400
Ronn Ross  wrote:
> I want to split it into two fields one with the date formatted like this:
> YYYY-MM-DD  2009-08-02
> 
> and the time to be 24 hour or military time. How every you call it. Similar
> to this:
> 15:22:00
> 
> I found it easy to truncate off the (UTC), but having trouble converting the
> date. Can someone point me in the right direction?

You don't say what database you are using but you may find it simpler
to do the conversion in your SELECT statement.  For example, see
http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.3/static/functions-formatting.html for
PostgreSQL formatting functions.

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain          |  Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
+1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.


From tommy.nordgren at comhem.se  Fri Aug 21 14:29:08 2009
From: tommy.nordgren at comhem.se (Tommy Nordgren)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 20:29:08 +0200
Subject: Mac OS 9.2
In-Reply-To: <96ab6db4-55c5-4142-8ef8-d7fbe97e4c4d@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <96ab6db4-55c5-4142-8ef8-d7fbe97e4c4d@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8683E1B6-367C-4A05-B6FA-667F0D4FC7DF@comhem.se>


On Aug 18, 2009, at 6:04 PM, madzientist wrote:

> hi,
>
> i have to work with mac OS 9.2 for legacy reasons...is there a
> compiled version of python for this os ? i need to get input about
> variable values from the user and then print out some text files that
> make use of this input. a gui would be nice, but keyboard based input
> would be ok too...
>
> thanks much,
>
> suresh
>
> ps. if there isn't a version of pythn that will work, perhaps you
> could suggest some other scripting language for 0S 9.2 ?
> --  
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
	There was a port (MacPython) of versions 2.3 and 2.3 that worked on  
MacOS 9
Maybe Google will help you locate a copy.
------
What is a woman that you forsake her, and the hearth fire and the home  
acre,
to go with the old grey Widow Maker.  --Kipling, harp song of the Dane  
women
Tommy Nordgren
tommy.nordgren at comhem.se





From dullrich at sprynet.com  Fri Aug 21 14:36:02 2009
From: dullrich at sprynet.com (David C Ullrich)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 13:36:02 -0500
Subject: Silly question
References: 
	
	
	<97ae0d22-7eaa-4ad6-8603-69699703d508@u16g2000pru.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 17:45:11 -0700, John Machin wrote:

> On Aug 21, 5:33?am, David C Ullrich  wrote:
> 
>> So I'm slow, fine. (There were several times when I was using 1.5.3 and
>> wished they were there - transposing matrices, etc.)
> 
> 1.5.THREE ??

Not sure. 1.SOMETHING. Sorry about the CONFUSION...


From ronn.ross at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 14:43:55 2009
From: ronn.ross at gmail.com (Ronn Ross)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:43:55 -0400
Subject: convert date time
In-Reply-To: <20090821142638.92d91382.darcy@druid.net>
References: <9c8c445f0908211114x52989399m9dff884ccdd43ad0@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090821142638.92d91382.darcy@druid.net>
Message-ID: <9c8c445f0908211143g38382e7aocbee20155e525573@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 2:26 PM, D'Arcy J.M. Cain  wrote:

> On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:14:32 -0400
> Ronn Ross  wrote:
> > I want to split it into two fields one with the date formatted like this:
> > YYYY-MM-DD  2009-08-02
> >
> > and the time to be 24 hour or military time. How every you call it.
> Similar
> > to this:
> > 15:22:00
> >
> > I found it easy to truncate off the (UTC), but having trouble converting
> the
> > date. Can someone point me in the right direction?
>
> You don't say what database you are using but you may find it simpler
> to do the conversion in your SELECT statement.  For example, see
> http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.3/static/functions-formatting.html for
> PostgreSQL formatting functions.
>
> --
> D'Arcy J.M. Cain          |  Democracy is three wolves
> http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
> +1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.
>
I apologize I should have made it clear that this date is stored in the db
as a string/varchar. The reason it is stored that way is before it's being
read in from a text file where it is formatted that way.
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From jfine at pytex.org  Fri Aug 21 15:23:51 2009
From: jfine at pytex.org (Jonathan Fine)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 20:23:51 +0100
Subject: Using 'apply' as a decorator, to define constants
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <_L2dne59TJ3baRPXnZ2dnUVZ8gCdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>

alex23 wrote:

> Unfortunately, apply() has been removed as a built-in in 3.x. I'm not
> sure if it has been relocated to a module somewhere, there's no
> mention of such in the docs.

The old use of apply()

> You can save yourself the tidy up by using the same name for the
> function & the label:
> 
>     def tags():
>         value = []
>         # ...
>         return value
>     tags = tags()

I don't like that because there's no hint at
     def tags():
that this is /not/ the value of tags.

>> Like all uses of decorators, it is simply syntactic sugar.  It allows
>> you to see, up front, what is going to happen.  I think, once I get used
>> to it, I'll get to like it.
> 
> The question is, is it really that useful, or is it just a slight
> aesthetic variation? Given that apply(f, args, kwargs) is identical to
> f(*args, **kwargs), it's understandable that's apply() isn't seen as
> worth keeping in the language.

Yes, I agree with that, completely.

> Why I've personally stopped using it: I've always had the impression
> that decorators were intended to provide a convenient and obvious way
> of augmenting functions. 

Yes, that was the intended use case.

> Having one that automatically executes the
> function at definition just runs counter to the behaviour I expect
> from a decorator. 

I'd expect the name of the decorator to explain what is going on.  If 
apply() were a well known part of the language, that would be fine.

> Especially when direct assignment... foo = foo
> () ...is a far more direct and clear way of expressing exactly what is
> happening.

Actually, I think the decorator approach is clearer.  But that's just my 
opinion, and not with the benefit of a lot of experience.

> But that's all IMO, if you feel it makes your code cleaner and don't
> plan on moving to 3.x any time soon (come on in! the water's great!),
> go for it :)

Thank you for your comments, Alex.  And particularly for telling me that 
apply() is no longer a builtin for Python 3.

-- 
Jonathan


From dullrich at sprynet.com  Fri Aug 21 15:40:30 2009
From: dullrich at sprynet.com (David C Ullrich)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:40:30 -0500
Subject: Silly question
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 16:51:00 -0700, Aahz wrote:

> In article ,
> Benjamin Kaplan   wrote:
>>On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 2:13 PM, David C Ullrich
>>wrot= e:
>>>
>>> I just noticed that
>>> sequence[i:j:k]
>>
>>Well, I got some good news and some bad news. According to the docs, it
>>existed in 1.4 but the built-in sequences didn't support it until 2.3.
>>It's not used that often anyway so you haven't been missing much.
> 
> Except that it's canonical for one specific operation:
> 
> 'reverseme'[::-1]

It's like you guys are a bunch of programmers or something:

from math import sqrt

def Primes(n):
  """Return a list of the primes < n"""
  sieve = range(n)
  for k in range(2,int(sqrt(n))+2):
    sieve[::k] = [1]*((n+k-1)/k)
  return [p for p in sieve if p > 1]






From darcy at druid.net  Fri Aug 21 15:42:27 2009
From: darcy at druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 15:42:27 -0400
Subject: convert date time
In-Reply-To: <9c8c445f0908211143g38382e7aocbee20155e525573@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9c8c445f0908211114x52989399m9dff884ccdd43ad0@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090821142638.92d91382.darcy@druid.net>
	<9c8c445f0908211143g38382e7aocbee20155e525573@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090821154227.b9fe0bdd.darcy@druid.net>

On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:43:55 -0400
Ronn Ross  wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 2:26 PM, D'Arcy J.M. Cain  wrote:
> > You don't say what database you are using but you may find it simpler
> > to do the conversion in your SELECT statement.  For example, see
> > http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.3/static/functions-formatting.html for
> > PostgreSQL formatting functions.
> >
> I apologize I should have made it clear that this date is stored in the db
> as a string/varchar. The reason it is stored that way is before it's being
> read in from a text file where it is formatted that way.

You can still save it as a timestamp:

SELECT '8/2/2009 8:36:16 AM (UTC)'::timestamp(0);
      timestamp      
---------------------
 2009-08-02 08:36:16
(1 row)

Your input format is read into PostgreSQL time types directly.  Same
may be true of other databases.

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain          |  Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
+1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.


From dullrich at sprynet.com  Fri Aug 21 15:45:55 2009
From: dullrich at sprynet.com (David C Ullrich)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:45:55 -0500
Subject: Silly question
References: 
	
	 
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:40:30 -0500, David C Ullrich wrote:

> On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 16:51:00 -0700, Aahz wrote:
> 
>> In article ,
>> Benjamin Kaplan   wrote:
>>>On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 2:13 PM, David C Ullrich
>>>wrot= e:
>>>>
>>>> I just noticed that
>>>> sequence[i:j:k]
>>>
>>>Well, I got some good news and some bad news. According to the docs, it
>>>existed in 1.4 but the built-in sequences didn't support it until 2.3.
>>>It's not used that often anyway so you haven't been missing much.
>> 
>> Except that it's canonical for one specific operation:
>> 
>> 'reverseme'[::-1]
> 
> It's like you guys are a bunch of programmers or something:
> 
> from math import sqrt
> 
> def Primes(n):
>   """Return a list of the primes < n""" sieve = range(n)
>   for k in range(2,int(sqrt(n))+2):
>     sieve[::k] = [1]*((n+k-1)/k)
>   return [p for p in sieve if p > 1]

Oops. Should have tested that a little more carefully
before posting. No time to fix it right now, customer just
got here. Let's just say we're looking for the primes
between sqrt(n) and n...





From code at pizzashack.org  Fri Aug 21 15:48:57 2009
From: code at pizzashack.org (Derek Martin)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:48:57 -0500
Subject: Annoying octal notation
Message-ID: <20090821194857.GU20434@dragontoe.org>

John Nagle wrote:
> Yes, and making lead zeros an error as suggested in PEP 3127 is a
> good idea.  It will be interesting to see what bugs that flushes
> out.

James Harris wrote:
> It maybe made sense once but this relic of the past should have been
> consigned to the waste bin of history long ago.

Sigh.  Nonsense.  I use octal notation *every day*, for two extremely
prevalent purposes: file creation umask, and Unix file permissions
(i.e. the chmod() function/command).  

I fail to see how 0O012, or even 0o012 is more intelligible than 012.
The latter reads like a typo, and the former is virtually
indistinguishable from 00012, O0012, or many other combinations that
someone might accidentally type (or intentionally type, having to do
this in dozens of other programming languages).  I can see how 012 can
be confusing to new programmers, but at least it's legible, and the
great thing about humans is that they can be taught (usually).  I for
one think this change is completely misguided.  More than flushing out
bugs, it will *cause* them in ubiquity, requiring likely terabytes of
code to be poured over and fixed.  Changing decades-old behaviors
common throughout a community for the sake of avoiding a minor
inconvenience of the n00b is DUMB.

-- 
Derek D. Martin
http://www.pizzashack.org/
GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D

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From dickey at his.com  Fri Aug 21 15:53:17 2009
From: dickey at his.com (Thomas Dickey)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 15:53:17 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: ncurses getch & unicode (was: decoding keyboard input when using
	curses)
In-Reply-To: <65a1d6f80908210458hfa33699m398d9af6eab67674@mail.gmail.com>
References: <65a1d6f80908200936g18b235fcw49d0047168cf9548@mail.gmail.com> 
	 
	<0a683d75-ac07-40a6-8374-2a2e900ac0ba@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	<65a1d6f80908210458hfa33699m398d9af6eab67674@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090821155306.K929@mail101.his.com>

On Fri, 21 Aug 2009, I?igo Serna wrote:

> 2009/8/21 Thomas Dickey :
>> On Aug 20, 6:12?pm, I?igo Serna  wrote:
>>> ??????? c = win.getch()
>>
>> You're using "getch", not "get_wch" (Python's ncurses binding may/may
>> not have the latter).
>> curses getch returns 8-bit values, get_wch would return wider values.
>
> you are right, ncurses binding does not have get_wch, only getch, and
> this last is the only one called in ncurses library bindings.
>
>
> Anyway, I've written a patch to include the get_wch method in the bindings.
> See http://bugs.python.org/issue6755
>
>
> Thanks for the clarification,

no problem (report bugs)

> I?igo
>

-- 
Thomas E. Dickey
http://invisible-island.net
ftp://invisible-island.net

From Kevin.Smith at sixquickrun.com  Fri Aug 21 15:58:50 2009
From: Kevin.Smith at sixquickrun.com (Kevin D. Smith)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:58:50 -0500
Subject: 2.6 windows install
References:  <4A8EBF9D.6020306@v.loewis.de>
	
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-21 11:43:31 -0500, Kevin D. Smith 
 said:

> On 2009-08-21 10:39:09 -0500, "Martin v. L?wis"  said:
> 
>>> Did you install Python to the network device from your XP box? That
>>> would explain why you can run it: the required registry settings &
>>> environment variables are added by the installer, none of which is
>>> occurring on any computer other than the one from which you installed.
>> 
>> In principle, Python doesn't need any registry settings or environment
>> variables in order to run.
> 
> That may be true, but it doesn't explain why python won't run.  I'm 
> guessing that it has something to do with the msvc*90.dll files not 
> getting installed.  If those dlls haven't been previously installed, 
> they won't be on the client machine in order for python to use them.  
> However, I haven't had any luck installing these files manually and 
> getting python to work that way.

Installing those files from 
 
does seem to help, but python still gives an error of "The application 
failed to initialize properly (0xc00000022)."  I'm not really sure 
where to go from here.

-- 
Kevin D. Smith



From travis+ml-python at subspacefield.org  Fri Aug 21 16:09:08 2009
From: travis+ml-python at subspacefield.org (Travis)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 15:09:08 -0500
Subject: zlib interface semi-broken
In-Reply-To: <20090212172619.GG6522@subspacefield.org>
References: <20090210205739.GT6522@subspacefield.org>
	<20090212172619.GG6522@subspacefield.org>
Message-ID: <20090821200908.GI1215@subspacefield.org>

I've come up with a good test for issue5210 and uploaded it to the bug tracker.

This patch should be ready for inclusion now.
-- 
Obama Nation | My emails do not have attachments; it's a digital signature
that your mail program doesn't understand. | http://www.subspacefield.org/~travis/ 
If you are a spammer, please email john at subspacefield.org to get blacklisted.
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From travis at subspacefield.org  Fri Aug 21 16:13:12 2009
From: travis at subspacefield.org (travis at subspacefield.org)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 15:13:12 -0500
Subject: proposal: add setresuid() system call to python
In-Reply-To: <20090717205953.2543.1223422516.divmod.quotient.3129@henry.divmod.com>
References: <20090717200141.GI6065@subspacefield.org>
	<20090717205953.2543.1223422516.divmod.quotient.3129@henry.divmod.com>
Message-ID: <20090821201312.GJ1215@subspacefield.org>

On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 04:59:53PM -0400, Jean-Paul Calderone wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 15:01:41 -0500, travis+ml-python at subspacefield.org wrote:
>> I am suggesting that the setresuid function be added to python,
>> perhaps in the OS module, because it has the clearest semantics for
>> manipulating user ids.  The reason why is best described in the
>> following paper:
>
> Yes, it'd be good for Python to expose setresuid.  The best course of
> action is to file a ticket in the issue tracker.  Things will be sped
> along if you also attach a patch implementing the change. :)

I'm now working on this as issue6758 in the tracker.

Adding the calls to the os module doesn't seem like a good idea to me,
because the calls are not POSIX, and it appears that os maps to
posixmodule.c.

Since the authors of the paper (Wagner et. al.) are proposing a new
set of APIs to make all of this clearer, I'm thinking that I will
create a module specifically for dropping permissions.
-- 
Obama Nation | My emails do not have attachments; it's a digital signature
that your mail program doesn't understand. | http://www.subspacefield.org/~travis/ 
If you are a spammer, please email john at subspacefield.org to get blacklisted.
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From mccredie at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 16:20:11 2009
From: mccredie at gmail.com (Matimus)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 13:20:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: 2.6 windows install
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 20, 10:21?am, "Tim Arnold"  wrote:
> Hi,
> I installed python2.6 to a netapp device. I can use it from my local windows
> machine (XP). But others cannot use it from their pcs.
>
> They get this response
> "The system cannot execute the specified program.".
>
> If they double click on python.exe, they get a window
>
> with: This application has failed to start because the application
>
> configuration is incorrect. ?Reinstalling the application may fix this
>
> problem.
>
> When I installed it I didn't see any mention of an 'administrators' install,
> it just installed. The permissions on the directories where it installed are
> set wide-open for everyone.
>
> Any ideas on what I'm missing here?
>
> thanks,
> --Tim Arnold

The default windows install puts Python26.dll in \windows\system32. I
haven't tried this, but you could probably fix your install by moving
Python26.dll into the Python26 directory.

That being said, the usual thing to do would be to install it on each
machine.

Matt


From benjamin at python.org  Fri Aug 21 16:22:47 2009
From: benjamin at python.org (Benjamin Peterson)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 20:22:47 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: <2h2hwo918umw.1ihpdwjimzge8$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<6a523329-3287-4271-ba37-7be450cfc5f6@d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Simon Forman  gmail.com> writes:

> No.  You would have to modify and recompile the interpreter. This is
> not exactly trivial, see "How to Change Python's Grammar"
> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0306/

And even that's incorrect. You'd have to modify the tokenizer.





From benjamin at python.org  Fri Aug 21 16:25:45 2009
From: benjamin at python.org (Benjamin Peterson)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 20:25:45 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: <20090821194857.GU20434@dragontoe.org>
Message-ID: 

Derek Martin  pizzashack.org> writes:

> More than flushing out
> bugs, it will *cause* them in ubiquity, requiring likely terabytes of
> code to be poured over and fixed.

2to3, however, can fix it for you extreme easily.







From code at pizzashack.org  Fri Aug 21 16:44:14 2009
From: code at pizzashack.org (Derek Martin)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 15:44:14 -0500
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: 
References: <20090821194857.GU20434@dragontoe.org>
	
Message-ID: <20090821204414.GV20434@dragontoe.org>

On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 08:25:45PM +0000, Benjamin Peterson wrote:
> > More than flushing out bugs, it will *cause* them in ubiquity,
> > requiring likely terabytes of code to be poured over and fixed.
> 
> 2to3, however, can fix it for you extreme easily.

Sure, but that won't stop people who've been writing code for 20 years
from continuing to type octal that way...  Humans can learn fairly
easily, but UN-learning is often much harder, especially when the
behavior to be unlearned is still very commonly in use.

Anyway, whatever.  This change (along with a few of the other
seemingly arbitrary changes in 3.x) is annoying, but Python is still
one of the best languages to code in for any multitude of problems.

-- 
Derek D. Martin
http://www.pizzashack.org/
GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D

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From piet at cs.uu.nl  Fri Aug 21 16:44:41 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 22:44:41 +0200
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: 
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Derek Martin  (DM) wrote:

>DM> I fail to see how 0O012, or even 0o012 is more intelligible than 012.
>DM> The latter reads like a typo, and the former is virtually
>DM> indistinguishable from 00012, O0012, or many other combinations that
>DM> someone might accidentally type (or intentionally type, having to do
>DM> this in dozens of other programming languages).  

You're right. Either hexadecimal should have been 0h or octal should
have been 0t :=)
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Aug 21 16:45:41 2009
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 22:45:41 +0200
Subject: 2.6 windows install
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <4A8F0775.1000208@v.loewis.de>

> The default windows install puts Python26.dll in \windows\system32. I
> haven't tried this, but you could probably fix your install by moving
> Python26.dll into the Python26 directory.

Only the admin installation should do that (for all users). The "just
for me" installation won't.

Regards,
Martin


From travis+ml-python at subspacefield.org  Fri Aug 21 16:50:40 2009
From: travis+ml-python at subspacefield.org (travis+ml-python at subspacefield.org)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 15:50:40 -0500
Subject: proposal: add setresuid() system call to python
In-Reply-To: <877hy38mxw.fsf@busola.homelinux.net>
References: <20090717200141.GI6065@subspacefield.org>
	<148918f0907171315i4ed5b274v77581a43c4464f8f@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<7cj89qF27mfrjU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<877hy38mxw.fsf@busola.homelinux.net>
Message-ID: <20090821205040.GK1215@subspacefield.org>

On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 04:10:35PM +0200, Hrvoje Niksic wrote:
> To emulate the os-module-type calls, it's better to raise exceptions
> than return negative values:
> 
> > def setresuid(ruid, euid, suid):
> >     return _setresuid(__uid_t(ruid), __uid_t(euid), __uid_t(suid))
> 
> def setresuid(ruid, euid, suid):
>     res = _setresuid(__uid_t(ruid), __uid_t(euid), __uid_t(suid))
>     if res < 0:
>         raise OSError('[Errno %d] %s' % (os.errno, errno.strerror(os.errno)))

I am working on a module to implement all of this, but that raise command
won't work in Python 2.6.1; it turns out that os.errno is a module, not
an integer.  Does anyone know how to do what I want (that is, how to access
the errno set in C functions)?
-- 
Obama Nation | My emails do not have attachments; it's a digital signature
that your mail program doesn't understand. | http://www.subspacefield.org/~travis/ 
If you are a spammer, please email john at subspacefield.org to get blacklisted.
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From seanm.py at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 16:55:51 2009
From: seanm.py at gmail.com (newb.py)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 13:55:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: IDLE file saving problem
Message-ID: <70222640-1990-4fae-bbca-8451d252a1ab@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

I am learning Python and need to use use IDLE, but I am having a
problem. When I open a new window in IDLE and write my code, all is
well. The coloring works and is very helpful. However, when I save the
file I am working on, all the color disappears. And what is more
frustrating is that when I open the saved file, it opens in TextEdit,
so I have to copy it back into a new IDLE window to work on the code.

If someone could clear up this seemingly simple problem for me, I
would really appreciate it.

Much thanks,
Sean


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Aug 21 17:10:49 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 22:10:49 +0100
Subject: IDLE file saving problem
In-Reply-To: <70222640-1990-4fae-bbca-8451d252a1ab@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
References: <70222640-1990-4fae-bbca-8451d252a1ab@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A8F0D59.9010508@mrabarnett.plus.com>

newb.py wrote:
> I am learning Python and need to use use IDLE, but I am having a
> problem. When I open a new window in IDLE and write my code, all is
> well. The coloring works and is very helpful. However, when I save the
> file I am working on, all the color disappears. And what is more
> frustrating is that when I open the saved file, it opens in TextEdit,
> so I have to copy it back into a new IDLE window to work on the code.
> 
> If someone could clear up this seemingly simple problem for me, I
> would really appreciate it.
> 
That happens if you don't provide the extension, eg you save as
"my_script" instead of "my_script.py". (Perhaps IDLE should add the
extension if the user doesn't.)


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Aug 21 17:18:41 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 22:18:41 +0100
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <4A8F0F31.4080107@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Piet van Oostrum wrote:
>>>>>> Derek Martin  (DM) wrote:
> 
>> DM> I fail to see how 0O012, or even 0o012 is more intelligible than 012.
>> DM> The latter reads like a typo, and the former is virtually
>> DM> indistinguishable from 00012, O0012, or many other combinations that
>> DM> someone might accidentally type (or intentionally type, having to do
>> DM> this in dozens of other programming languages).  
> 
> You're right. Either hexadecimal should have been 0h or octal should
> have been 0t :=)

I have seen the use of Q/q instead in order to make it clearer. I still
prefer Smalltalk's 16rFF and 8r377.


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Aug 21 17:20:20 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 22:20:20 +0100
Subject: Three-Phase-Diagrams with matplotlib
In-Reply-To: <25082083.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <25082083.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: 

M. Hecht wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> does anyone know whether it is possible to draw three-phase-diagrams with
> matplotlib?
> 
> A three-phase-diagram is a triangular diagram applied in chemistry e.g. for
> slags where
> one has three main components of a chemical substance at the corners and
> points or lines 
> within the triangle marking different compositions of the substances in
> percent, e.g.
> in metallurgy 20% Al2O3, 45% CaO and 35% SiO2.
> 
> 
As noone else has responded try the matplotlib users' mailing list, see
http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=80706

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From rt8396 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 17:48:56 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:48:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: IDLE file saving problem
References: <70222640-1990-4fae-bbca-8451d252a1ab@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 21, 4:10?pm, MRAB  wrote:
[snip]
> That happens if you don't provide the extension, eg you save as
> "my_script" instead of "my_script.py". (Perhaps IDLE should add the
> extension if the user doesn't.)

Yes, and much more needs improvement! I have made many changes already
and i am polishing an "IDLE 3000" for the good people of Pythonia,
stay tuned more to come....


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Fri Aug 21 17:53:55 2009
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:53:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Using 'apply' as a decorator, to define constants
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 21, 6:36?am, Jonathan Fine  wrote:
> ? ? ?@apply
> ? ? ?def tags():
> ? ? ? ? ?value = []
> ? ? ? ? ?# complicated code
> ? ? ? ? ?return value
>

Is this different from:

tags = []
# complicated code

I can see the argument that you are cleaning up a lot of intermediary
variables upon return, though.


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Fri Aug 21 18:17:40 2009
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 15:17:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Using 'apply' as a decorator, to define constants
References:  
	
Message-ID: <3c82e522-e879-473b-b814-d9bcd9d905de@u20g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 21, 9:09?am, alex23  wrote:
> On Aug 21, 11:36?pm, Jonathan Fine  wrote:
>
> class ColourThing(object):
> ? ? @apply
> ? ? def rgb():
> ? ? ? ? def fset(self, rgb):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? self.r, self.g, self.b = rgb
> ? ? ? ? def fget(self):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? return (self.r, self.g, self.b)
> ? ? ? ? return property(**locals())
>

This is brilliant. I am going to use this more often. I've all but
given up on property() since defining "get_foo", "get_bar", etc... has
been a pain and polluted the namespace.


> Unfortunately, apply() has been removed as a built-in in 3.x. I'm not
> sure if it has been relocated to a module somewhere, there's no
> mention of such in the docs.

    apply = lambda f: f()

It's one of those functions that is easier to define than import.


> Why I've personally stopped using it: I've always had the impression
> that decorators were intended to provide a convenient and obvious way
> of augmenting functions. Having one that automatically executes the
> function at definition just runs counter to the behaviour I expect
> from a decorator. Especially when direct assignment... foo = foo
> () ...is a far more direct and clear way of expressing exactly what is
> happening.
>

If anyone reads the decorator and doesn't think "this thing below is
defined as the result of this decorator function" then they don't
understand decorators at all.


From sean.marimpietri at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 18:21:52 2009
From: sean.marimpietri at gmail.com (seanm)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 15:21:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Reading, writing files
Message-ID: 

In the book I am using, they give the following function as an
example:

def copyFile(oldFile, newFile):
    f1 = open(oldFile, 'r')
    f2 = open(newFile, 'w')
    while True:
        text = f1.read(50)
        if text == "":
            break
        f2.write(text)
    f1.close()
    f2.close()
    return

My question is why does this function successfully copy a 200
character file, oldFile, to newFile? The line of code that reads, text
= f1.read(50), does not seem to be iterative in any way to me. How is
this fuction succeding in adding each additional set up 50 characters
to the previous set of 50 characters read from oldFile?

How does it even succeed in copying a 25 character file? If oldFile
contains 25 characters, how does the program ever break out of the
'while True:' loop?

I just don't see it.

Again, much thanks to anyone who can clear this up.

-Sean


From seanm.py at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 18:25:17 2009
From: seanm.py at gmail.com (newb.py)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 15:25:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Help Please
Message-ID: <75c475fc-5f93-4e41-98f3-9bde17859343@d4g2000prc.googlegroups.com>

In the book I am using, they give the following function as an
example:

def copyFile(oldFile, newFile):
    f1 = open(oldFile, 'r')
    f2 = open(newFile, 'w')
    while True:
        text = f1.read(50)
        if text == "":
            break
        f2.write(text)
    f1.close()
    f2.close()
    return

My question is why does this function successfully copy a 200
character file, oldFile, to newFile? The line of code that reads,
text
= f1.read(50), does not seem to be iterative in any way to me. How is
this fuction succeding in adding each additional set up 50 characters
to the previous set of 50 characters read from oldFile?
How does it even succeed in copying a 25 character file? If oldFile
contains 25 characters, how does the program ever break out of the
'while True:' loop?

I just don't see it.

Again, much thanks to anyone who can clear this up.

-Sean


From marduk at letterboxes.org  Fri Aug 21 18:42:56 2009
From: marduk at letterboxes.org (Albert Hopkins)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 18:42:56 -0400
Subject: Reading, writing files
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <1250894576.5655.5.camel@centar.nbk>

On Fri, 2009-08-21 at 15:21 -0700, seanm wrote:
> In the book I am using, they give the following function as an
> example:
> 
> def copyFile(oldFile, newFile):
>     f1 = open(oldFile, 'r')
>     f2 = open(newFile, 'w')
>     while True:
>         text = f1.read(50)
>         if text == "":
>             break
>         f2.write(text)
>     f1.close()
>     f2.close()
>     return
> 
> My question is why does this function successfully copy a 200
> character file, oldFile, to newFile? The line of code that reads, text
> = f1.read(50), does not seem to be iterative in any way to me. How is
> this fuction succeding in adding each additional set up 50 characters
> to the previous set of 50 characters read from oldFile?

The body of the loop will execute forever (unless cut short by the
"break" statement.  What the loop is essentially doing is reading 50
bytes at a time from f1 and writing it into f2.  When f1 reaches end of
file it will stop returning bytes (if text == "":) the loop is broken
and both files are closed.

> How does it even succeed in copying a 25 character file? If oldFile
> contains 25 characters, how does the program ever break out of the
> 'while True:' loop?
> 
> I just don't see it.

Have you read the documentation for file objects?

During the first iteration of the loop 25 bytes are read from f1. Then
they are written to f2.  During the next iteration there is nothing else
to be read from f1 so f1.read(50) returns "", which causes the loop to
break.

> Again, much thanks to anyone who can clear this up.
> 




From marduk at letterboxes.org  Fri Aug 21 18:43:54 2009
From: marduk at letterboxes.org (Albert Hopkins)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 18:43:54 -0400
Subject: Help Please
In-Reply-To: <75c475fc-5f93-4e41-98f3-9bde17859343@d4g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
References: <75c475fc-5f93-4e41-98f3-9bde17859343@d4g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1250894634.5655.6.camel@centar.nbk>

Why do you post the same question twice within 5 minutes of each other?




From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Aug 21 18:52:17 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 23:52:17 +0100
Subject: Reading, writing files
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A8F2521.2040406@mrabarnett.plus.com>

seanm wrote:
> In the book I am using, they give the following function as an
> example:
> 
> def copyFile(oldFile, newFile):
>     f1 = open(oldFile, 'r')
>     f2 = open(newFile, 'w')
>     while True:
>         text = f1.read(50)

This will read up to 50 characters from the input file. At the end of
the file it'll return an empty string (""). In fact, the only time it'll
return an empty string is at the end of the file.

>         if text == "":
>             break
>         f2.write(text)
>     f1.close()
>     f2.close()
>     return
> 
> My question is why does this function successfully copy a 200
> character file, oldFile, to newFile? The line of code that reads, text
> = f1.read(50), does not seem to be iterative in any way to me. How is
> this fuction succeding in adding each additional set up 50 characters
> to the previous set of 50 characters read from oldFile?
> 
> How does it even succeed in copying a 25 character file? If oldFile
> contains 25 characters, how does the program ever break out of the
> 'while True:' loop?
> 
> I just don't see it.
> 
> Again, much thanks to anyone who can clear this up.
> 
It reads some characters from the input file and then writes then to the
output file, and because of the 'while' loop it'll repeat action that
until the read returns an empty string, which will be when it has read
all the way to the end of file and tries to read some more.


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Aug 21 18:52:21 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 08:52:21 +1000
Subject: Object Reference question
References: <2dcf41c3-6623-48d9-bb74-97f753088479@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<8763chldpd.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
Message-ID: <87ocq8kcey.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

josef  writes:

> On Aug 21, 4:26?am, Ben Finney  wrote:
> > Note that, after that list is created, each item in that list is
> > *also* a reference to the corresponding object. That is, ?a? is a
> > reference to an object, and ?dk[0]? is a *different* reference to
> > the *same* object. The object has no knowledge about those
> > references.
>
> This is surprising.

Perhaps so, depending on your initial assumptions. But it's quite
consistent: every time you use an object, you do so via some kind of
reference to that object. Those references are the way you get at the
same object again later.

> My initial thought is that dk[0] hold the object reference 'a,' but
> that wouldn't be true "pass by object reference."

Right. It stores an entirely *separate* reference to that object. The
reference ?dk[0]?, a list item, and the reference ?a?, a name, both
refer to the same object. Neither of those references knows anything
about the other.

> When defining the object reference dk[0]

Not ?defining?. You're binding (?assigning?, if you like) a reference.

> python takes the object reference 'a,'

More accurately, it takes the object referred to by ?a?. (Also, please
don't put the comma inside the quotes; it's syntactically significant,
and changes the meaning of what you're writing in code.)

> finds the object MyClass0()

No. ?MyClass0()? is syntax for ?call MyClass0 and get its return value?.
The return value will be a new instance of the class ? a *new* object
every time you use that syntax.

Rather, the object referred to by ?a? will be the result of evaluating
the identifier ?a?. As a shortcut for discussion, you can talk about
?the object ?a??, but remember that the only things you're using in the
syntax of your Python code is object *references*, be they identifiers
(names) or some other kind of reference.

> and then assigns the object identity to dk[0]? Or something close to
> that.

You'd do well to read 
for a good, simple coverage of the Python object model.

> I'm a bit shocked that there isn't a method for catching object
> reference names.

Don't be; there is no such thing as an ?object reference name?.

A name is an object reference. So is every other way of getting at a
Python object in your code.

> I think that something like a = MyClass0(name = 'a', ...) is a bit
> redundant.

It usually is, yes. Why do you think you need it? The natural way to
handle objects and names together in Python is with a mapping; a ?dict?
instance.

> Are definitions treated the same way? How would one print or pass
> function names?

Functions are objects like any other, but since they're more likely to
want to know their own name, the name is stored as an attribute::

    >>> def frobnicate_nodule(spam):
    ...     """ Frobnicate the spam nodule. """
    ... 
    >>> type(frobnicate_nodule)
    
    >>> frobnicate_nodule.__name__
    'frobnicate_nodule'

The fact that the function name is stored in one of those funky
double-underscore names is a big clue that the attribute is special (in
this case, because it gets assigned automatically by the Python
interpreter).

That's not the case for most types, though.

> I think I'll just add a 'name' to the classes' init defintion.

What is the larger problem you're trying to solve, and why do you think
it will be helped by instances knowing a name for themselves?

(Note: an object can never know *all* names for itself, let alone all
the other references to itself; and you must write your program in the
knowledge that no reference to an object has any intrinsic special
status against any of the other references to that object.)

-- 
 \        ?I spent a lot of money on wine and women, and like a fool I |
  `\                                 squandered the rest.? ?Benny Hill |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Aug 21 18:55:11 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 08:55:11 +1000
Subject: Sanitising arguments to shell commands
References: <873a7l21gr.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
	<87ab1tlekn.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
	<50697b2c0908210219i5e02c0cbq2d63bff891624ef4@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <87k50wkca8.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Rick King  writes:

> shlex doesn't handle unicode input though, so, in general, it's not a
> good solution.

Argh. Is there a Python bug tracker number for fixing that? Or is there
a better solution?

-- 
 \         ?Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?? ?I think so, |
  `\   Brain, but if we have nothing to fear but fear itself, why does |
_o__) Elanore Roosevelt wear that spooky mask?? ?_Pinky and The Brain_ |
Ben Finney


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 19:23:29 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 16:23:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: proposal: add setresuid() system call to python
References: <20090717200141.GI6065@subspacefield.org>
	<148918f0907171315i4ed5b274v77581a43c4464f8f@mail.gmail.com> 
	
	<7cj89qF27mfrjU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> 
	<877hy38mxw.fsf@busola.homelinux.net>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 21, 1:50?pm, travis+ml-pyt... at subspacefield.org wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 04:10:35PM +0200, Hrvoje Niksic wrote:
> > To emulate the os-module-type calls, it's better to raise exceptions
> > than return negative values:
>
> > > def setresuid(ruid, euid, suid):
> > > ? ? return _setresuid(__uid_t(ruid), __uid_t(euid), __uid_t(suid))
>
> > def setresuid(ruid, euid, suid):
> > ? ? res = _setresuid(__uid_t(ruid), __uid_t(euid), __uid_t(suid))
> > ? ? if res < 0:
> > ? ? ? ? raise OSError('[Errno %d] %s' % (os.errno, errno.strerror(os.errno)))
>
> I am working on a module to implement all of this, but that raise command
> won't work in Python 2.6.1; it turns out that os.errno is a module, not
> an integer. ?Does anyone know how to do what I want (that is, how to access
> the errno set in C functions)?

You are using ctypes, I presume?  Try replacing raise OSError with
this:

ctypes.pythonapi.PyErr_SetFromErrno(ctypes.py_object(OSError))

Not entirely sure it'll work with Python built with a static library,
but I think it will.


Carl Banks


From james.harris.1 at googlemail.com  Fri Aug 21 19:23:57 2009
From: james.harris.1 at googlemail.com (James Harris)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 16:23:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 21 Aug, 20:48, Derek Martin  wrote:

...

> James Harris wrote:
> > It maybe made sense once but this relic of the past should have been
> > consigned to the waste bin of history long ago.
>
> Sigh. ?Nonsense. ?I use octal notation *every day*, for two extremely
> prevalent purposes: file creation umask, and Unix file permissions
> (i.e. the chmod() function/command). ?

You misunderstand. I was saying that taking a leading zero as
indicating octal is archaic. Octal itself is fine where appropriate.

The chmod command doesn't require a leading zero.

James


From dullrich at sprynet.com  Fri Aug 21 19:32:41 2009
From: dullrich at sprynet.com (David C. Ullrich)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 18:32:41 -0500
Subject: Silly question
References: 
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: <5jbu85dvva20ntj9iai1rhp9a51ipan989@4ax.com>

On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:45:55 -0500, David C Ullrich
 wrote:

>[...]
>
>Oops. Should have tested that a little more carefully
>before posting. No time to fix it right now, customer just
>got here. Let's just say we're looking for the primes
>between sqrt(n) and n...

from math import sqrt

def Primes(n):
  """Return a list of the primes < n"""
  sieve = range(n)
  for k in range(2,int(sqrt(n))+2):
      sieve[2*k::k] = [1]*((n-k-1)/k)
  return [p for p in sieve if p > 1]


David C. Ullrich

"Understanding Godel isn't about following his formal proof. 
That would make a mockery of everything Godel was up to."
(John Jones, "My talk about Godel to the post-grads."
in sci.logic.)


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Aug 21 19:38:42 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 21 Aug 2009 16:38:42 -0700
Subject: Code formatting question: conditional expression
References: 
	<7evr1pF2i4mouU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<87ocqchl2k.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: 

In article <87ocqchl2k.fsf at benfinney.id.au>,
Ben Finney   wrote:
>"Diez B. Roggisch"  writes:
>>
>> excessblk = None
>> if total > P.BASE:
>>     excessblk = ...
>>
>> You don't lose any vertical space,
>
>I don't see vertical space as such a scarce resource; we don't have an
>imminent newline shortage, to my knowledge. I value it far lower than,
>say, local readability.

We don't have a newline shortage, but we do have a pixel shortage.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I support family values -- Addams family values" --www.nancybuttons.com


From james.harris.1 at googlemail.com  Fri Aug 21 19:52:29 2009
From: james.harris.1 at googlemail.com (James Harris)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 16:52:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References:  
	
	
Message-ID: <6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>

On 21 Aug, 22:18, MRAB  wrote:
> Piet van Oostrum wrote:
> >>>>>> Derek Martin  (DM) wrote:
>
> >> DM> I fail to see how 0O012, or even 0o012 is more intelligible than 012.
> >> DM> The latter reads like a typo, and the former is virtually
> >> DM> indistinguishable from 00012, O0012, or many other combinations that
> >> DM> someone might accidentally type (or intentionally type, having to do
> >> DM> this in dozens of other programming languages). ?
>
> > You're right. Either hexadecimal should have been 0h or octal should
> > have been 0t :=)
>
> I have seen the use of Q/q instead in order to make it clearer. I still
> prefer Smalltalk's 16rFF and 8r377.

Two interesting options. In a project I have on I have also considered
using 0q as indicating octal. I maybe saw it used once somewhere else
but I have no idea where. 0t was a second choice and 0c third choice
(the other letters of oct). 0o should NOT be used for obvious reasons.

So you are saying that Smalltalk has r where
r is presumably for radix? That's maybe best of all. It preserves the
syntactic requirement of starting a number with a digit and seems to
have greatest flexibility. Not sure how good it looks but it's
certainly not bad.

  0xff & 0x0e | 0b1101
  16rff & 16r0e | 2r1101

Hmm. Maybe a symbol would be better than a letter.

James


From wgheath at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 19:58:50 2009
From: wgheath at gmail.com (Tim Heath)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 16:58:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
Message-ID: <485663771.786023.1250899130772.JavaMail.app@ech3-cdn10.prod>

LinkedIn
------------

Tim Heath requested to add you as a connection on LinkedIn:
------------------------------------------

Jaime,

I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn.

- Tim


View invitation from Tim Heath
http://www.linkedin.com/e/I2LlXdLlWUhFABKmxVOlgGLlWUhFAfhMPPF/blk/I287618177_3/0PnPsTcjwNdzsUcAALqnpPbOYWrSlI/svi/
------------------------------------------

DID YOU KNOW you can be the first to know when a trusted member of your network changes jobs? With Network Updates on your LinkedIn home page, you'll be notified as members of your network change their current position. Be the first to know and reach out!
http://www.linkedin.com/

 
------
(c) 2009, LinkedIn Corporation

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From clp2 at rebertia.com  Fri Aug 21 20:02:14 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 17:02:14 -0700
Subject: Sanitising arguments to shell commands
In-Reply-To: <87k50wkca8.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <873a7l21gr.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
	<87ab1tlekn.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
	<50697b2c0908210219i5e02c0cbq2d63bff891624ef4@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<87k50wkca8.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908211702h2a2017f8r18f9a7b4b56d87fa@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 3:55 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
> Rick King  writes:
>
>> shlex doesn't handle unicode input though, so, in general, it's not a
>> good solution.
>
> Argh. Is there a Python bug tracker number for fixing that?

Indeed there is:
http://bugs.python.org/issue1170

It even has a patch. I wonder why it's unapplied.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Aug 21 20:03:35 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 10:03:35 +1000
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: 
Message-ID: <87d46ok948.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Derek Martin  writes:

> James Harris wrote:
> > It maybe made sense once but this relic of the past should have been
> > consigned to the waste bin of history long ago.
>
> Sigh. Nonsense. I use octal notation *every day*, for two extremely
> prevalent purposes: file creation umask, and Unix file permissions
> (i.e. the chmod() function/command).

Right. Until Unix stops using these (and whatever replaces it would have
to be pretty compelling, given the prevalence of these in octal
notation), or until people stop using Unix, these will be with us and
require octal notation.

That doesn't mean, of course, that we need to elevate it above
hexadecimal in our language syntax; ?0o012? will allow octal notation
for literals just fine.

> I fail to see how 0O012, or even 0o012 is more intelligible than 012.
> The latter reads like a typo

No, it reads like a very common notation for decimal numbers in natural
usage. It's very frequently not a typo, but an expression of a
three-digit decimal number that happens to be less than 100.

> and the former is virtually indistinguishable from 00012, O0012, or
> many other combinations that someone might accidentally type (or
> intentionally type, having to do this in dozens of other programming
> languages).

Only if you type the letter in uppercase. The lower-case ?o? is much
easier to distinguish.

Whether or not you find ?0o012? easily distinguishable as a non-decimal
notation, it's undoubtedly easier to distinguish than ?012?.

> I can see how 012 can be confusing to new programmers, but at least
> it's legible, and the great thing about humans is that they can be
> taught (usually). I for one think this change is completely misguided.

These human programmers, whether newbies or long-experienced, also deal
with decimal numbers every day, many of which are presented as a
sequence of digits with leading zeros ? and we continue to think of them
as decimal numbers regardless. Having the language syntax opposed to
that is a wart, a cognitive overhead with little benefit, and I'll be
glad to see it go in favour of a clearer syntax.

-- 
 \       ?? one of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was |
  `\        that, lacking zero, they had no way to indicate successful |
_o__)                  termination of their C programs.? ?Robert Firth |
Ben Finney
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From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Aug 21 20:09:29 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 10:09:29 +1000
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: <20090821194857.GU20434@dragontoe.org>
	
	
Message-ID: <878whck8ue.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Derek Martin  writes:

> Sure, but that won't stop people who've been writing code for 20 years
> from continuing to type octal that way... Humans can learn fairly
> easily, but UN-learning is often much harder, especially when the
> behavior to be unlearned is still very commonly in use.

This is exactly the argument for removing ?012? octal notation: humans
(and programmers who have far less need for octal numbers than for
decimal numbers) are *already* trained, and reinforced many times daily,
to think of that notation as a decimal number. They should not need to
un-learn that association in order to understand octal literals in code.

> Anyway, whatever. This change (along with a few of the other seemingly
> arbitrary changes in 3.x) is annoying, but Python is still one of the
> best languages to code in for any multitude of problems.

Hear hear.

-- 
 \     ?I wrote a song, but I can't read music so I don't know what it |
  `\    is. Every once in a while I'll be listening to the radio and I |
_o__)        say, ?I think I might have written that.?? ?Steven Wright |
Ben Finney
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From smono927 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 21:15:35 2009
From: smono927 at gmail.com (SeanMon)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 18:15:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Decompressing gzip over FTP
Message-ID: 

Is there a way to decompress a large (2GB) gzipped file being
retrieved over FTP on the fly?

I'm using ftplib.FTP to open a connection to a remote server, and I
have had no success connecting retrbinary to gzip without using an
intermediate file.

Is there any way to get a file-like object describing the remote file,
or a way to utilize gzip's decompression without providing it a file-
like object?

Thanks,
Sean


From lists at cheimes.de  Fri Aug 21 21:40:58 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 03:40:58 +0200
Subject: Decompressing gzip over FTP
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A8F4CAA.7040903@cheimes.de>

SeanMon schrieb:
> Is there a way to decompress a large (2GB) gzipped file being
> retrieved over FTP on the fly?
> 
> I'm using ftplib.FTP to open a connection to a remote server, and I
> have had no success connecting retrbinary to gzip without using an
> intermediate file.
> 
> Is there any way to get a file-like object describing the remote file,
> or a way to utilize gzip's decompression without providing it a file-
> like object?

gzip is really just a file format. In order to work with compressed 
streams you should use the low level zlib module.

http://docs.python.org/library/zlib.html#module-zlib

Have fun!

Christian


From smono927 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 21:51:47 2009
From: smono927 at gmail.com (SeanMon)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 18:51:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Decompressing gzip over FTP
References: 
	
Message-ID: <0bf17e27-408c-4d67-90cc-74f28789f524@32g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 21, 9:40?pm, Christian Heimes  wrote:
> SeanMon schrieb:
>
> > Is there a way to decompress a large (2GB) gzipped file being
> > retrieved over FTP on the fly?
>
> > I'm using ftplib.FTP to open a connection to a remote server, and I
> > have had no success connecting retrbinary to gzip without using an
> > intermediate file.
>
> > Is there any way to get a file-like object describing the remote file,
> > or a way to utilize gzip's decompression without providing it a file-
> > like object?
>
> gzip is really just a file format. In order to work with compressed
> streams you should use the low level zlib module.
>
> http://docs.python.org/library/zlib.html#module-zlib
>
> Have fun!
>
> Christian

Unfortunately, the file on the server is a gzip file, so I cannot
simply pipe the contents into a zlib.decompressobj (which does have
the ability to decompress in chunks, as I wish gzip did!).

Thanks,
Sean


From subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 22:15:31 2009
From: subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com (joy99)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 19:15:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Questions on XML
Message-ID: <51b22a8c-54de-484e-9b3c-9baeb4498f69@q40g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

Dear Group,

I like to convert some simple strings of natural language to XML. May
I use Python to do this? If any one can help me, on this.

I am using primarily UTF-8 based strings, like Hindi or Bengali. Can I
use Python to help me in this regard?

How can I learn good XML aspects of Python. If any one can kindly name
me a book or URL.

I am using Python2.6 on Windows XP with IDLE as GUI.

Best Regards,
Subhabrata.


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 21 22:35:38 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 19:35:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Using 'apply' as a decorator, to define constants
References:  
	 
	<3c82e522-e879-473b-b814-d9bcd9d905de@u20g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Jonathan Gardner  wrote:
> This is brilliant. I am going to use this more often. I've all but
> given up on property() since defining "get_foo", "get_bar", etc... has
> been a pain and polluted the namespace.

Unfortunately I can't remember who I first learned it from - it was
definitely in a post to this group - otherwise all credit would be
their's.

> It's one of those functions that is easier to define than import.

And so obvious now :)

> If anyone reads the decorator and doesn't think "this thing below is
> defined as the result of this decorator function" then they don't
> understand decorators at all.

Well, it's not so much a question of the reader's intelligence as that
Python already has a readily identifiable assignment operator. Having
a second mechanism for assignment with no real similarity to the first
just adds cognitive friction to reading the code...not because the
reader doesn't understand what is happening, but because it's not
obvious _why_ this second form would have been chosen.

Nothing that couldn't be mitigated with a comment, I guess.

    # @apply used to prevent having to repeat references

That would work for me.


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Aug 21 22:54:27 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 22 Aug 2009 02:54:27 GMT
Subject: Using 'apply' as a decorator, to define constants
References: 
	
	<3c82e522-e879-473b-b814-d9bcd9d905de@u20g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0018e14c$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 15:17:40 -0700, Jonathan Gardner wrote:

>> Unfortunately, apply() has been removed as a built-in in 3.x. I'm not
>> sure if it has been relocated to a module somewhere, there's no mention
>> of such in the docs.
> 
>     apply = lambda f: f()
> 
> It's one of those functions that is easier to define than import.

>>> apply = lambda f: f()
>>> __builtin__.apply(len, 'a')
1
>>> apply(len, 'a')
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
TypeError: () takes exactly 1 argument (2 given)


It's a little bit more difficult to define it *correctly*. Here's a 
working version of apply:


def apply(object, *args, **kwargs):
    """apply(object[, args[, kwargs]]) -> value

    Call a callable object with positional and keyword arguments.

    >>> apply(max, 'one', 'two', 'three', 'four', key=len)
    'three'

    """
    return object(*args, **kwargs)

Note that this:

* actually does what apply() is supposed to do;
* defines the function name, useful for tracebacks;
* has a docstring, useful for interactive use and documentation;
* includes an example suitable for automated testing with doctest.



-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Aug 21 22:55:51 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 22 Aug 2009 02:55:51 GMT
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: 
Message-ID: <0018e1a0$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:48:57 -0500, Derek Martin wrote:

>> It maybe made sense once but this relic of the past should have been
>> consigned to the waste bin of history long ago.
> 
> Sigh.  Nonsense.  I use octal notation *every day*, for two extremely
> prevalent purposes: file creation umask, and Unix file permissions (i.e.
> the chmod() function/command).

And you will still be able to, by explicitly using octal notation.


> I fail to see how 0O012, or even 0o012 is more intelligible than 012.

The first is wrong, bad, wicked, and if I catch anyone using it, they 
will be soundly slapped with a halibut. *wink*

Using O instead of o for octal is so unreadable that I think it should be 
prohibited by the language, no matter that hex notation accepts both x 
and X.


> The latter reads like a typo, 

*Everything* reads like a typo if you're unaware of the syntax being used.


> and the former is virtually
> indistinguishable from 00012, O0012, or many other combinations that
> someone might accidentally type (or intentionally type, having to do
> this in dozens of other programming languages).

Agreed.


> I can see how 012 can
> be confusing to new programmers, but at least it's legible, and the
> great thing about humans is that they can be taught (usually).

And the great thing is that now you get to teach yourself to stop writing 
octal numbers implicitly and be write them explicitly with a leading 0o 
instead :)

It's not just new programmers -- it's any programmer who is unaware of 
the notation (possibly derived from C) that a leading 0 means "octal". 
That's a strange and bizarre notation to use, because 012 is a perfectly 
valid notation for decimal 12, as are 0012, 00012, 000012 and so forth. 
Anyone who has learnt any mathematics beyond the age of six will almost 
certainly expect 012 to equal 12. Having 012 equal 10 comes as a surprise 
even to people who are familiar with octal.


> I for
> one think this change is completely misguided.  More than flushing out
> bugs, it will *cause* them in ubiquity, requiring likely terabytes of
> code to be poured over and fixed.  Changing decades-old behaviors common
> throughout a community for the sake of avoiding a minor inconvenience of
> the n00b is DUMB.

Use of octal isn't common. You've given two cases were octal notation is 
useful, but for every coder who frequently writes umasks on Unix systems, 
there are a thousand who don't.

It's no hardship to write 0o12 instead of 012.


-- 
Steven


From dns4 at cornell.edu  Fri Aug 21 22:57:16 2009
From: dns4 at cornell.edu (David Smith)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 22:57:16 -0400
Subject: Questions on XML
In-Reply-To: <51b22a8c-54de-484e-9b3c-9baeb4498f69@q40g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <51b22a8c-54de-484e-9b3c-9baeb4498f69@q40g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

joy99 wrote:
> Dear Group,
> 
> I like to convert some simple strings of natural language to XML. May
> I use Python to do this? If any one can help me, on this.
> 
> I am using primarily UTF-8 based strings, like Hindi or Bengali. Can I
> use Python to help me in this regard?
> 
> How can I learn good XML aspects of Python. If any one can kindly name
> me a book or URL.
> 
> I am using Python2.6 on Windows XP with IDLE as GUI.
> 
> Best Regards,
> Subhabrata.

Take a look at xml.etree.ElementTree package and it's contents.  It's
included in the binary distributions of Python 2.6.  There are lot's of
books out covering XML and UTF-8 is exactly where you want to be w/ XML.

--David


From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 00:18:13 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 21:18:13 -0700
Subject: Questions on XML
In-Reply-To: <51b22a8c-54de-484e-9b3c-9baeb4498f69@q40g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <51b22a8c-54de-484e-9b3c-9baeb4498f69@q40g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 


> I am using primarily UTF-8 based strings, like Hindi or Bengali. Can I
> use Python to help me in this regard?

I can say from experience that Python on Windows (at least, Python  
2.5 on 32-bit Vista) works perfectly well with UTF-8 files containing  
Bangla. I have had trouble with working with the data in IDLE,  
however, which seems to prefer ASCII by default.

-------------
Rami Chowdhury
"Never assume malice when stupidity will suffice." -- Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)




On Aug 21, 2009, at 19:15 , joy99 wrote:

> Dear Group,
>
> I like to convert some simple strings of natural language to XML. May
> I use Python to do this? If any one can help me, on this.
>
> I am using primarily UTF-8 based strings, like Hindi or Bengali. Can I
> use Python to help me in this regard?
>
> How can I learn good XML aspects of Python. If any one can kindly name
> me a book or URL.
>
> I am using Python2.6 on Windows XP with IDLE as GUI.
>
> Best Regards,
> Subhabrata.
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Sat Aug 22 01:53:31 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 07:53:31 +0200
Subject: Questions on XML
In-Reply-To: 
References: <51b22a8c-54de-484e-9b3c-9baeb4498f69@q40g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4a8f87db$0$30221$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net>

Rami Chowdhury wrote:
>> I am using primarily UTF-8 based strings, like Hindi or Bengali. Can I
>> use Python to help me in this regard?
> 
> I can say from experience that Python on Windows (at least, Python 2.5
> on 32-bit Vista) works perfectly well with UTF-8 files containing
> Bangla. I have had trouble with working with the data in IDLE, however,
> which seems to prefer ASCII by default.

Defaults almost never work for encodings. You have to be explicit: add an
encoding declaration to the top of your source file if you use encoded
literal strings in your code; use the codecs module with a suitable
encoding to read encoded text files, and use an XML parser when reading XML.

Stefan


From kee at kagi.com  Sat Aug 22 02:09:36 2009
From: kee at kagi.com (Kee Nethery)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 23:09:36 -0700
Subject: Questions on XML
In-Reply-To: <51b22a8c-54de-484e-9b3c-9baeb4498f69@q40g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <51b22a8c-54de-484e-9b3c-9baeb4498f69@q40g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 


On Aug 21, 2009, at 7:15 PM, joy99 wrote:

> Dear Group,
>
> I like to convert some simple strings of natural language to XML. May
> I use Python to do this? If any one can help me, on this.
>
> I am using primarily UTF-8 based strings, like Hindi or Bengali. Can I
> use Python to help me in this regard?

As a newbie, the thing that caused me trouble was importing a string  
into the XML parser. The parser seemed to want to open a file and I  
had a string. The solution was one of these:

from xml.etree import ElementTree as et
theXmlDataTree = et.parse(StringIO.StringIO(theXmlString))


from xml.etree import ElementTree as et
theXmlDataTree = et.ElementTree(et.XML(theXmlString))

Not sure which you would use nor what the differences are. I have the  
first set commented out in my code so for some reason I switched to  
the second set of code to take a string and pull it into the XML parser.

Once the string is in the parser, all the examples worked. It was  
getting it into the parser that had me stumped because none of the  
examples showed this situation, it appears to be obvious to someone  
who has used Python for a while.

Kee


From subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 02:13:33 2009
From: subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com (joy99)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 23:13:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Questions on XML
References: <51b22a8c-54de-484e-9b3c-9baeb4498f69@q40g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	
	<4a8f87db$0$30221$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <575587f9-b2d2-498f-a907-0a90c260aa60@i4g2000prm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 22, 10:53?am, Stefan Behnel  wrote:
> Rami Chowdhury wrote:
> >> I am using primarily UTF-8 based strings, like Hindi or Bengali. Can I
> >> use Python to help me in this regard?
>
> > I can say from experience that Python on Windows (at least, Python 2.5
> > on 32-bit Vista) works perfectly well with UTF-8 files containing
> > Bangla. I have had trouble with working with the data in IDLE, however,
> > which seems to prefer ASCII by default.
>
> Defaults almost never work for encodings. You have to be explicit: add an
> encoding declaration to the top of your source file if you use encoded
> literal strings in your code; use the codecs module with a suitable
> encoding to read encoded text files, and use an XML parser when reading XML.
>
> Stefan

Dear Group,
Thanx for your reply. Python works perfectly for Hindi and Bangla with
Win XP. I never had a trouble.
Best Regards,
Subhabrata.


From emmanuel.surleau at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 02:55:17 2009
From: emmanuel.surleau at gmail.com (Emmanuel Surleau)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 08:55:17 +0200
Subject: Questions on XML
In-Reply-To: <4a8f87db$0$30221$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net>
References: <51b22a8c-54de-484e-9b3c-9baeb4498f69@q40g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	
	<4a8f87db$0$30221$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <200908220855.17815.emmanuel.surleau@gmail.com>

> >> I am using primarily UTF-8 based strings, like Hindi or Bengali. Can I
> >> use Python to help me in this regard?
> >
> > I can say from experience that Python on Windows (at least, Python 2.5
> > on 32-bit Vista) works perfectly well with UTF-8 files containing
> > Bangla. I have had trouble with working with the data in IDLE, however,
> > which seems to prefer ASCII by default.
>
> Defaults almost never work for encodings. You have to be explicit: add an
> encoding declaration to the top of your source file if you use encoded
> literal strings in your code; use the codecs module with a suitable
> encoding to read encoded text files, and use an XML parser when reading
> XML.

Actually, default *should* work for XML. The default encoding for an XML file 
is UTF-8 (AFAIK).

Cheers,

Emm


From emmanuel.surleau at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 02:59:56 2009
From: emmanuel.surleau at gmail.com (Emmanuel Surleau)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 08:59:56 +0200
Subject: Questions on XML
In-Reply-To: <575587f9-b2d2-498f-a907-0a90c260aa60@i4g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
References: <51b22a8c-54de-484e-9b3c-9baeb4498f69@q40g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<4a8f87db$0$30221$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net>
	<575587f9-b2d2-498f-a907-0a90c260aa60@i4g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <200908220859.56127.emmanuel.surleau@gmail.com>

On Saturday 22 August 2009 08:13:33 joy99 wrote:
> On Aug 22, 10:53 am, Stefan Behnel  wrote:
> > Rami Chowdhury wrote:
> > >> I am using primarily UTF-8 based strings, like Hindi or Bengali. Can I
> > >> use Python to help me in this regard?
> > >
> > > I can say from experience that Python on Windows (at least, Python 2.5
> > > on 32-bit Vista) works perfectly well with UTF-8 files containing
> > > Bangla. I have had trouble with working with the data in IDLE, however,
> > > which seems to prefer ASCII by default.
> >
> > Defaults almost never work for encodings. You have to be explicit: add an
> > encoding declaration to the top of your source file if you use encoded
> > literal strings in your code; use the codecs module with a suitable
> > encoding to read encoded text files, and use an XML parser when reading
> > XML.
> >
> > Stefan
>
> Dear Group,
> Thanx for your reply. Python works perfectly for Hindi and Bangla with
> Win XP. I never had a trouble.
> Best Regards,
> Subhabrata.

You might also want to have a look at lxml. It can much more than the XML 
module in the default distribution, uses ElementTree as well, and is backed by 
the kickass, fast libxml library (http://codespeak.net/lxml/). It will allow 
you to use XSLs, for instance. Regardless of whether you use lxml or not, have 
a look at etree.iterparse, it is invaluable when processing huge XML 
documents.

Cheers,

Emm


From jfine at pytex.org  Sat Aug 22 03:09:52 2009
From: jfine at pytex.org (Jonathan Fine)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 08:09:52 +0100
Subject: Using 'apply' as a decorator, to define constants
In-Reply-To: <3c82e522-e879-473b-b814-d9bcd9d905de@u20g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	<3c82e522-e879-473b-b814-d9bcd9d905de@u20g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Jonathan Gardner wrote:
> On Aug 21, 9:09 am, alex23  wrote:
>> On Aug 21, 11:36 pm, Jonathan Fine  wrote:
>>
>> class ColourThing(object):
>>     @apply
>>     def rgb():
>>         def fset(self, rgb):
>>             self.r, self.g, self.b = rgb
>>         def fget(self):
>>             return (self.r, self.g, self.b)
>>         return property(**locals())
>>
> 
> This is brilliant. I am going to use this more often. I've all but
> given up on property() since defining "get_foo", "get_bar", etc... has
> been a pain and polluted the namespace.


I think we can do better, with a little work.  And also solve the 
problem that 'apply' is no longer a builtin in Python3.

Here's my suggestion:
===
import wibble # Informs reader we're doing something special here.

class ColourThing(object):

     @wibble.property
     def rgb():
         '''This is the docstring for the property.'''
         def fset(self, rgb):
             self.r, self.g, self.b = rgb
         def fget(self):
             return (self.r, self.g, self.b)
         return locals()
===

And here's wibble.property()
===
_property = property  # Avoid collision.
def property(fn):
     return _property(doc=fn.__doc__, **fn())
===

We can add apply() to the wibble module.  By the way, 'wibble' is a 
placeholder to the real name.  Any suggestions?

-- 
Jonathan


From kushal.kumaran+python at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 03:11:49 2009
From: kushal.kumaran+python at gmail.com (Kushal Kumaran)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 12:41:49 +0530
Subject: convert date time
In-Reply-To: <9c8c445f0908211114x52989399m9dff884ccdd43ad0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9c8c445f0908211114x52989399m9dff884ccdd43ad0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1e364c4e0908220011qd99b59ek973060fd767d1dc0@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 11:44 PM, Ronn Ross wrote:
> I'm new to python and I'm getting a date time from a field in the database
> that looks like this:
> 8/2/2009 8:36:16 AM (UTC)
>
> I want to split it into two fields one with the date formatted like this:
> YYYY-MM-DD? 2009-08-02
>
> and the time to be 24 hour or military time. How every you call it. Similar
> to this:
> 15:22:00
>
> I found it easy to truncate off the (UTC), but having trouble converting the
> date. Can someone point me in the right direction?
>

datetime.datetime.strptime() will give you a datetime object, which
you can then format in a wide variety of ways using its strftime()
method.  Doesn't work with dates earlier than 1900, I believe.

-- 
kushal


From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 03:16:29 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 00:16:29 -0700
Subject: Questions on XML
In-Reply-To: <4a8f87db$0$30221$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net>
References: <51b22a8c-54de-484e-9b3c-9baeb4498f69@q40g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	
	<4a8f87db$0$30221$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <89952E85-0E6C-4B62-A638-E742E67030CF@gmail.com>

> encoding declaration to the top of your source file if you use encoded
> literal strings in your code

Any tips for how to set the encoding in IDLE? printing the Unicode  
strings works -- trying to repr() the variable chokes with a  
UnicodeDecodeError, and trying to enter the literals inside IDLE just  
gets me '?' characters instead.

(this is Python 2.5 + IDLE installed from the Python-2.5.msi on  
python.org)

-------------
Rami Chowdhury
"Never assume malice when stupidity will suffice." -- Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)




On Aug 21, 2009, at 22:53 , Stefan Behnel wrote:

> Rami Chowdhury wrote:
>>> I am using primarily UTF-8 based strings, like Hindi or Bengali.  
>>> Can I
>>> use Python to help me in this regard?
>>
>> I can say from experience that Python on Windows (at least, Python  
>> 2.5
>> on 32-bit Vista) works perfectly well with UTF-8 files containing
>> Bangla. I have had trouble with working with the data in IDLE,  
>> however,
>> which seems to prefer ASCII by default.
>
> Defaults almost never work for encodings. You have to be explicit:  
> add an
> encoding declaration to the top of your source file if you use encoded
> literal strings in your code; use the codecs module with a suitable
> encoding to read encoded text files, and use an XML parser when  
> reading XML.
>
> Stefan
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From ray.belanger at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 04:17:49 2009
From: ray.belanger at gmail.com (flagmino)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 01:17:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: debugger
Message-ID: <71854089-ba76-40c8-8a81-e224711cf7c0@i8g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

To get familiar with the debugger, I have loaded this program:

import math

def s1(x, y):
   a = (x + y)
   print("Answer from s1"), a
   return

def s2(x, y):
   b = (x - y)
   print("This comes from s2"), b
   #print z
   print("call from s2: "), s1(x, y)
   return

I am trying to debug:
I press shift-F9 and F7. I end up in the interpreter where I enter s2
(1, 2).

>From that point if I press F7, the program restart all over.
If I press Enter, the program gets out of debug mode.

Please help me figuring out how I can use the dbugger. You are welcome
to send a sound file if this is easier for you.

Thanks

ray


From ak at nothere.com  Sat Aug 22 04:20:23 2009
From: ak at nothere.com (AK)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 04:20:23 -0400
Subject: How to 'de-slashify' a string?
Message-ID: <4a8faa47$0$31283$607ed4bc@cv.net>

Hi, if I have a string '\\303\\266', how can I convert it to '\303\266' 
in a general way?

The problem I'm running into is that I'm connecting with pygresql to a 
postgres database and when I get fields that are of 'char' type, I get 
them in unicode, but when I get fields of 'byte' type, I get the text 
with quoted slashes, e.g. '\303' becomes '\\303' and so on.

I saw posts online to do

cursor.execute("set client-encoding to unicode")

before running queries but this command causes an error.

So I think I need a way to de-quote the slashes or alternatively
some way to tell pygresql not to quote slashes for 'byte' fields.

Any help, hints, etc appreciated..

-- 
AK


From contact at xavierho.com  Sat Aug 22 04:53:59 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 18:53:59 +1000
Subject: debugger
In-Reply-To: <71854089-ba76-40c8-8a81-e224711cf7c0@i8g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
References: <71854089-ba76-40c8-8a81-e224711cf7c0@i8g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908220153r6455323al4610f453443bc175@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 6:17 PM, flagmino  wrote:

> To get familiar with the debugger, I have loaded this program:
>
> import math
>
> def s1(x, y):
>   a = (x + y)
>   print("Answer from s1"), a
>   return
>
> def s2(x, y):
>   b = (x - y)
>   print("This comes from s2"), b
>   #print z
>   print("call from s2: "), s1(x, y)
>   return
>
> I am trying to debug:
> I press shift-F9 and F7. I end up in the interpreter where I enter s2
> (1, 2).
>
> >From that point if I press F7, the program restart all over.
> If I press Enter, the program gets out of debug mode.
>
> Please help me figuring out how I can use the dbugger. You are welcome
> to send a sound file if this is easier for you.
>
> Thanks
>
> ray
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Sorry, but which debugger are you referring to?

Also, note that you're printing s1(x,y) which is returning nothing. Not sure
why you want to do that, but just mentioning it.
-------------- next part --------------
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From leonhard.vogt at gmx.ch  Sat Aug 22 04:58:47 2009
From: leonhard.vogt at gmx.ch (Leonhard Vogt)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 10:58:47 +0200
Subject: Using 'apply' as a decorator, to define constants
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <86f8e$4a8fb348$544b15b8$5398@news.hispeed.ch>


> Why I've personally stopped using it: I've always had the impression
> that decorators were intended to provide a convenient and obvious way
> of augmenting functions. Having one that automatically executes the
> function at definition just runs counter to the behaviour I expect
> from a decorator. Especially when direct assignment... foo = foo
> () ...is a far more direct and clear way of expressing exactly what is
> happening.

if you have to define it yourself, you could call it store_result or
something else instead of apply.

@store_result
def tags():
     return result

Leonhard


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Aug 22 05:03:39 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 22 Aug 2009 09:03:39 GMT
Subject: Using 'apply' as a decorator, to define constants
References: 
	
	<3c82e522-e879-473b-b814-d9bcd9d905de@u20g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <001937d5$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 08:09:52 +0100, Jonathan Fine wrote:

> Jonathan Gardner wrote:
>> On Aug 21, 9:09 am, alex23  wrote:
>>> On Aug 21, 11:36 pm, Jonathan Fine  wrote:
>>>
>>> class ColourThing(object):
>>>     @apply
>>>     def rgb():
>>>         def fset(self, rgb):
>>>             self.r, self.g, self.b = rgb
>>>         def fget(self):
>>>             return (self.r, self.g, self.b)
>>>         return property(**locals())
>>>
>>>
>> This is brilliant. I am going to use this more often. I've all but
>> given up on property() since defining "get_foo", "get_bar", etc... has
>> been a pain and polluted the namespace.
> 
> 
> I think we can do better, with a little work.  And also solve the
> problem that 'apply' is no longer a builtin in Python3.

There's a standard idiom for that, using the property() built-in, for 
Python 2.6 or better.

Here's an example including a getter, setter, deleter and doc string, 
with no namespace pollution, imports, or helper functions or deprecated 
built-ins:

class ColourThing(object):
    @property
    def rgb(self):
        """Get and set the (red, green, blue) colours."""
        return (self.r, self.g, self.b)
    @rgb.setter
    def rgb(self, rgb):
        self.r, self.g, self.b = rgb
    @rgb.deleter
    def rgb(self):
        del self.r, self.g, self.b


 
-- 
Steven


From 71david at libero.it  Sat Aug 22 05:15:16 2009
From: 71david at libero.it (David)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 11:15:16 +0200
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: <2h2hwo918umw.1ihpdwjimzge8$.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	<14hj3v50qg77e$.1pk6i6w7h7q6s.dlg@40tude.net>
	
Message-ID: <8aeik0nwe7l6$.znpheg2zqrj3.dlg@40tude.net>

Il Fri, 21 Aug 2009 10:36:35 -0700 (PDT), Mensanator ha scritto:

> Aha! Then I WAS right after all. Switch to 3.1 and you'll
> soon be cured of that bad habit:
> 
>>>> 012 + 012
> SyntaxError: invalid token (, line 1)

I have tre (four) problems:

1) I am forced to use 2.5 since the production server has 2.5 installed.

2) Quite often I have to enter many zero-leading numbers and now my fingers
put a leading zero almost everywhere

3) I don't understand why useless but *harmless* things like algebrically
insignificant leading zeros should be *forbidden* and promoted to errors.

4) I still don't like the '0o..' notation because 0 (zero) and o (lowercase
O) glyphs appear very similar in many character sets. I'd prefer something
like '0c..' so it resembles the word 'oc' for 'octal'.

David


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Aug 22 05:18:52 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 22 Aug 2009 09:18:52 GMT
Subject: How to 'de-slashify' a string?
References: <4a8faa47$0$31283$607ed4bc@cv.net>
Message-ID: <00193b65$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 04:20:23 -0400, AK wrote:

> Hi, if I have a string '\\303\\266', how can I convert it to '\303\266'
> in a general way?

It's not clear what you mean.

Do you mean you have a string '\\303\\266', that is:

backslash backslash three zero three backslash backslash two six six

If so, then the simplest way is:

>>> s = r'\\303\\266'  # note the raw string
>>> len(s)
10
>>> print s
\\303\\266
>>> print s.replace('\\\\', '\\')
\303\266


Another possibility:

>>> s = '\\303\\266'  # this is not a raw string
>>> len(s)
8
>>> print s
\303\266

So s is:
backslash three zero three backslash two six six

and you don't need to do any more.


> The problem I'm running into is that I'm connecting with pygresql to a
> postgres database and when I get fields that are of 'char' type, I get
> them in unicode, but when I get fields of 'byte' type, I get the text
> with quoted slashes, e.g. '\303' becomes '\\303' and so on.

Is pygresql quoting the backslash, or do you just think it is quoting the 
backslashes? How do you know? E.g. if you have '\\303', what is the 
length of that? 4 or 5?


-- 
Steven


From 71david at libero.it  Sat Aug 22 05:27:32 2009
From: 71david at libero.it (David)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 11:27:32 +0200
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: 
	
	
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>

Il Fri, 21 Aug 2009 16:52:29 -0700 (PDT), James Harris ha scritto:


> 
>   0xff & 0x0e | 0b1101
>   16rff & 16r0e | 2r1101
> 
> Hmm. Maybe a symbol would be better than a letter.

What about 2_1011, 8_7621, 16_c26h or 2;1011, 8;7621, 16;c26h ?

David


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Sat Aug 22 05:29:53 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 02:29:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: convert date time
References: <9c8c445f0908211114x52989399m9dff884ccdd43ad0@mail.gmail.com> 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 22, 5:11?pm, Kushal Kumaran 
wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 11:44 PM, Ronn Ross wrote:
> > I'm new to python and I'm getting a date time from a field in the database
> > that looks like this:
> > 8/2/2009 8:36:16 AM (UTC)

> datetime.datetime.strptime() will give you a datetime object, which
> you can then format in a wide variety of ways using its strftime()
> method. ?Doesn't work with dates earlier than 1900, I believe.

The datetime module works from 0001-01-01 onwards; see
http://docs.python.org/library/datetime.html#datetime.MINYEAR

Other things worth mentioning:

(1) datetime.datetime.strptime() was introduced in Python 2.5; for
Python 2.3 and 2.4, use time.strptime() [which may not like years
before 1970] followed by datetime.datetime()

(2) as the input has 12-hour clock plus AM/PM, ensure that you use %I
instead of %H for the hour component; %H won't do what you expect if
your expectation is not based on reading the docs :-)


From jfine at pytex.org  Sat Aug 22 05:51:27 2009
From: jfine at pytex.org (Jonathan Fine)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 10:51:27 +0100
Subject: Using 'apply' as a decorator, to define constants
In-Reply-To: <001937d5$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 		<3c82e522-e879-473b-b814-d9bcd9d905de@u20g2000prg.googlegroups.com>	
	<001937d5$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> There's a standard idiom for that, using the property() built-in, for 
> Python 2.6 or better.
> 
> Here's an example including a getter, setter, deleter and doc string, 
> with no namespace pollution, imports, or helper functions or deprecated 
> built-ins:
> 
> class ColourThing(object):
>     @property
>     def rgb(self):
>         """Get and set the (red, green, blue) colours."""
>         return (self.r, self.g, self.b)
>     @rgb.setter
>     def rgb(self, rgb):
>         self.r, self.g, self.b = rgb
>     @rgb.deleter
>     def rgb(self):
>         del self.r, self.g, self.b


Sorry, Steve, but I don't understand this.  In fact, I don't even see 
how it can be made to work.

Unless an exception is raised,
     @wibble
     def wobble():
         pass
will make an assignment to wobble, namely the return value of wibble. 
So in your example above, there will be /three/ assignments to rgb. 
Unless you do some complicated introspection (and perhaps not even then) 
surely they will clobber each other.

I still prefer:
     @wibble.property
     def rgb():
         '''Red Green Blue color settings (property)'''

         def fset(rgb):
             self.r, self.g, self.b = rgb
         return locals()

-- 
Jonathan


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Aug 22 05:57:32 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 22 Aug 2009 09:57:32 GMT
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: <2h2hwo918umw.1ihpdwjimzge8$.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	<14hj3v50qg77e$.1pk6i6w7h7q6s.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	<8aeik0nwe7l6$.znpheg2zqrj3.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <00194475$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 11:15:16 +0200, David wrote:

> 3) I don't understand why useless but *harmless* things like
> algebrically insignificant leading zeros should be *forbidden* and
> promoted to errors.

The PEP covering this change says:

"There are still some strong feelings that '0123' should be allowed as a 
literal decimal in Python 3.0. If this is the right thing to do, this can 
easily be covered in an additional PEP. This proposal only takes the 
first step of making '0123' not be a valid octal number, for reasons 
covered in the rationale."

http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3127/



-- 
Steven


From ekayxu at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 06:03:27 2009
From: ekayxu at gmail.com (EK)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 03:03:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Dictionary from a list
References: 
	<7f368jF2it5a5U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	
	 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 20, 2:10?pm, Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
> Jan Kaliszewski wrote:
> > 20-08-2009 o 02:05:57 Jan Kaliszewski  wrote:
>
> >> Or probably better:
>
> >> ? ? ?from itertools import islice, izip
> >> ? ? ?dict(izip(islice(li, 0, None, 2), islice(li, 1, None, 2)))
>
> > Or similarly, perhaps more readable:
>
> > ? ? ?iterator = iter(li)
> > ? ? ?dict((iterator.next(), iterator.next()) for i in xrange(len(li)/2))
>
> I just can't stop posting this one:
>
> >>> from itertools import izip
> >>> it = iter([1,2,3,4,5,6])
> >>> dict(izip(it, it))
>
> {1: 2, 3: 4, 5: 6}
>
> I really tried, but yours drove me over the edge.
>
> Peter

dict(zip(*[iter(l)]*2))


From ak at nothere.com  Sat Aug 22 06:09:20 2009
From: ak at nothere.com (AK)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 06:09:20 -0400
Subject: How to 'de-slashify' a string?
In-Reply-To: <00193b65$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <4a8faa47$0$31283$607ed4bc@cv.net>
	<00193b65$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4a8fc3d1$0$22535$607ed4bc@cv.net>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 04:20:23 -0400, AK wrote:
> 
>> Hi, if I have a string '\\303\\266', how can I convert it to '\303\266'
>> in a general way?
> 
> It's not clear what you mean.
> 
> Do you mean you have a string '\\303\\266', that is:
> 
> backslash backslash three zero three backslash backslash two six six
> 
> If so, then the simplest way is:
> 
>>>> s = r'\\303\\266'  # note the raw string
>>>> len(s)
> 10
>>>> print s
> \\303\\266
>>>> print s.replace('\\\\', '\\')
> \303\266
> 
> 
> Another possibility:
> 
>>>> s = '\\303\\266'  # this is not a raw string
>>>> len(s)
> 8
>>>> print s
> \303\266
> 
> So s is:
> backslash three zero three backslash two six six
> 
> and you don't need to do any more.

Well, I need the string itself to become '\303\266', not to print
that way. In other words, when I do 'print s', it should display
unicode characters if my term is set to show them, instead of
showing \303\266.

> 
> 
>> The problem I'm running into is that I'm connecting with pygresql to a
>> postgres database and when I get fields that are of 'char' type, I get
>> them in unicode, but when I get fields of 'byte' type, I get the text
>> with quoted slashes, e.g. '\303' becomes '\\303' and so on.
> 
> Is pygresql quoting the backslash, or do you just think it is quoting the 
> backslashes? How do you know? E.g. if you have '\\303', what is the 
> length of that? 4 or 5?

Length is 4, and I need it to be length of 1. E.g.:

 >>> s = '\303'
 >>> s
'\xc3'
 >>> x = '\\303'
 >>> x
'\\303'
 >>> len(x)
4
 >>> len(s)
1


What I get from pygresql is x, what I need is s. Either by asking 
pygresql to do this or convert it afterwards. I can't do 
replace('\\303', '\303') because it can be any unicode character.

> 
> 


-- 
AK


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Sat Aug 22 06:32:52 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 12:32:52 +0200
Subject: Questions on XML
In-Reply-To: 
References: <51b22a8c-54de-484e-9b3c-9baeb4498f69@q40g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4a8fc954$0$31331$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>

Kee Nethery wrote:
> As a newbie, the thing that caused me trouble was importing a string
> into the XML parser.

That would be

	root_element = et.fromstring(some_string)

The parse() function is meant to parse from a file.


> from xml.etree import ElementTree as et
> theXmlDataTree = et.parse(StringIO.StringIO(theXmlString))
> 
> from xml.etree import ElementTree as et
> theXmlDataTree = et.ElementTree(et.XML(theXmlString))

You can use both, but I suspect parsing from StringIO to be slower than
parsing from the string directly. That's the case for lxml, at least.

Note that fromstring() behaves the same as XML(), but it reads better when
parsing from a string variable. XML() reads better when parsing from a
literal string.

Stefan


From vlastimil.brom at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 06:33:32 2009
From: vlastimil.brom at gmail.com (Vlastimil Brom)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 12:33:32 +0200
Subject: How to 'de-slashify' a string?
In-Reply-To: <4a8fc3d1$0$22535$607ed4bc@cv.net>
References: <4a8faa47$0$31283$607ed4bc@cv.net>
	<00193b65$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4a8fc3d1$0$22535$607ed4bc@cv.net>
Message-ID: <9fdb569a0908220333u41a662f0j7a898500df50a324@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/22 AK :
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 04:20:23 -0400, AK wrote:
>>
>>> Hi, if I have a string '\\303\\266', how can I convert it to '\303\266'
>>> in a general way?
>>
>> It's not clear what you mean.
>>
>> Do you mean you have a string '\\303\\266', that is:
>>
>> backslash backslash three zero three backslash backslash two six six
>>
>> If so, then the simplest way is:
>>
>>>>> s = r'\\303\\266' ?# note the raw string
>>>>> len(s)
>>
>> 10
>>>>>
>>>>> print s
>>
>> \\303\\266
>>>>>
>>>>> print s.replace('\\\\', '\\')
>>
>> \303\266
>>
>>
>> Another possibility:
>>
>>>>> s = '\\303\\266' ?# this is not a raw string
>>>>> len(s)
>>
>> 8
>>>>>
>>>>> print s
>>
>> \303\266
>>
>> So s is:
>> backslash three zero three backslash two six six
>>
>> and you don't need to do any more.
>
> Well, I need the string itself to become '\303\266', not to print
> that way. In other words, when I do 'print s', it should display
> unicode characters if my term is set to show them, instead of
> showing \303\266.
>
>>
>>
>>> The problem I'm running into is that I'm connecting with pygresql to a
>>> postgres database and when I get fields that are of 'char' type, I get
>>> them in unicode, but when I get fields of 'byte' type, I get the text
>>> with quoted slashes, e.g. '\303' becomes '\\303' and so on.
>>
>> Is pygresql quoting the backslash, or do you just think it is quoting the
>> backslashes? How do you know? E.g. if you have '\\303', what is the length
>> of that? 4 or 5?
>
> Length is 4, and I need it to be length of 1. E.g.:
>
>>>> s = '\303'
>>>> s
> '\xc3'
>>>> x = '\\303'
>>>> x
> '\\303'
>>>> len(x)
> 4
>>>> len(s)
> 1
>
>
> What I get from pygresql is x, what I need is s. Either by asking pygresql
> to do this or convert it afterwards. I can't do replace('\\303', '\303')
> because it can be any unicode character.
>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> AK
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


Hi,
do you mean something like

>>> u"\u0303"
u'\u0303'
>>> print u"\u0303"
?
    ? (dec.: 771)  (hex.: 0x303)   ? COMBINING TILDE (Mark, Nonspacing)
?

vbr


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Aug 22 06:45:13 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 22 Aug 2009 10:45:13 GMT
Subject: Using 'apply' as a decorator, to define constants
References: 
	
	<3c82e522-e879-473b-b814-d9bcd9d905de@u20g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	
	<001937d5$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <00194fa2$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 10:51:27 +0100, Jonathan Fine wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
>> There's a standard idiom for that, using the property() built-in, for
>> Python 2.6 or better.
>> 
>> Here's an example including a getter, setter, deleter and doc string,
>> with no namespace pollution, imports, or helper functions or deprecated
>> built-ins:
>> 
>> class ColourThing(object):
>>     @property
>>     def rgb(self):
>>         """Get and set the (red, green, blue) colours.""" return
>>         (self.r, self.g, self.b)
>>     @rgb.setter
>>     def rgb(self, rgb):
>>         self.r, self.g, self.b = rgb
>>     @rgb.deleter
>>     def rgb(self):
>>         del self.r, self.g, self.b
> 
> 
> Sorry, Steve, but I don't understand this.  In fact, I don't even see
> how it can be made to work.

Nevertheless, it does work, and it's not even magic. It's described (very 
briefly) in the docstring for property: help(property) will show it to 
you. More detail is here:

http://docs.python.org/library/functions.html#property

As for how it can work, it's not that difficult. All you need is for the 
setter and deleter methods to add an appropriate fset and fdel method to 
the property, then return it. Here's a toy example which may demonstrate 
the process (although unlike property, fget, fset and fdel don't have any 
special meanings):

class ToyProperty(object):
    def __init__(self, fget, fset=None, fdel=None, fdoc=None):
        if fdoc is None:
            fdoc = fget.__doc__
        self.fget = fget
        self.fset = fset
        self.fdel = fdel
    def getter(self, fget):
        self.fget = fget
        return self
    def setter(self, fset):
        self.fset = fset
        return self
    def deleter(self, fdel):
        self.fdel = fdel
        return self


> Unless an exception is raised,
>      @wibble
>      def wobble():
>          pass
> will make an assignment to wobble, namely the return value of wibble. So
> in your example above, there will be /three/ assignments to rgb.

Yes. A tiny inefficiency, which only occurs when the class is created. If 
you care about that, then (1) use the full form of property() where you 
supply the fget, fset and fdel arguments all at once, and (2) you really 
need to get out into the fresh air more *wink*



> Unless
> you do some complicated introspection (and perhaps not even then) surely
> they will clobber each other.

So what? The process is no weirder than:

x = ['fget']
x = x + ['fset']
x = x + ['fdel']



-- 
Steven


From ak at nothere.com  Sat Aug 22 06:52:53 2009
From: ak at nothere.com (AK)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 06:52:53 -0400
Subject: How to 'de-slashify' a string?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4a8faa47$0$31283$607ed4bc@cv.net>	<00193b65$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<4a8fc3d1$0$22535$607ed4bc@cv.net>
	
Message-ID: <4a8fce05$0$31285$607ed4bc@cv.net>

Vlastimil Brom wrote:
> 2009/8/22 AK :
>> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>> On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 04:20:23 -0400, AK wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi, if I have a string '\\303\\266', how can I convert it to '\303\266'
>>>> in a general way?
>>> It's not clear what you mean.
>>>
>>> Do you mean you have a string '\\303\\266', that is:
>>>
>>> backslash backslash three zero three backslash backslash two six six
>>>
>>> If so, then the simplest way is:
>>>
>>>>>> s = r'\\303\\266'  # note the raw string
>>>>>> len(s)
>>> 10
>>>>>> print s
>>> \\303\\266
>>>>>> print s.replace('\\\\', '\\')
>>> \303\266
>>>
>>>
>>> Another possibility:
>>>
>>>>>> s = '\\303\\266'  # this is not a raw string
>>>>>> len(s)
>>> 8
>>>>>> print s
>>> \303\266
>>>
>>> So s is:
>>> backslash three zero three backslash two six six
>>>
>>> and you don't need to do any more.
>> Well, I need the string itself to become '\303\266', not to print
>> that way. In other words, when I do 'print s', it should display
>> unicode characters if my term is set to show them, instead of
>> showing \303\266.
>>
>>>
>>>> The problem I'm running into is that I'm connecting with pygresql to a
>>>> postgres database and when I get fields that are of 'char' type, I get
>>>> them in unicode, but when I get fields of 'byte' type, I get the text
>>>> with quoted slashes, e.g. '\303' becomes '\\303' and so on.
>>> Is pygresql quoting the backslash, or do you just think it is quoting the
>>> backslashes? How do you know? E.g. if you have '\\303', what is the length
>>> of that? 4 or 5?
>> Length is 4, and I need it to be length of 1. E.g.:
>>
>>>>> s = '\303'
>>>>> s
>> '\xc3'
>>>>> x = '\\303'
>>>>> x
>> '\\303'
>>>>> len(x)
>> 4
>>>>> len(s)
>> 1
>>
>>
>> What I get from pygresql is x, what I need is s. Either by asking pygresql
>> to do this or convert it afterwards. I can't do replace('\\303', '\303')
>> because it can be any unicode character.
>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> AK
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
> 
> 
> Hi,
> do you mean something like
> 
>>>> u"\u0303"
> u'\u0303'
>>>> print u"\u0303"
> ?
>     ? (dec.: 771)  (hex.: 0x303)   ? COMBINING TILDE (Mark, Nonspacing)
> ?
> 
> vbr

Yes, something like that except that it starts out as '\\303\\266', and 
it's good enough for me if it turns into '\303\266', in fact that's 
rendered as one unicode char. In other words, when you do:

 >>> print "\\303\\266"
'\303\266'

I need that result to become a python string, i.e. the slashes need to
be converted from literal slashes to escape slashes.




-- 
AK


From marduk at letterboxes.org  Sat Aug 22 07:34:17 2009
From: marduk at letterboxes.org (Albert Hopkins)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 07:34:17 -0400
Subject: debugger
In-Reply-To: <71854089-ba76-40c8-8a81-e224711cf7c0@i8g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
References: <71854089-ba76-40c8-8a81-e224711cf7c0@i8g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1250940857.28537.0.camel@centar.nbk>

On Sat, 2009-08-22 at 01:17 -0700, flagmino wrote:
[...]
> I am trying to debug:
> I press shift-F9 and F7. I end up in the interpreter where I enter s2
> (1, 2).
> 
> >From that point if I press F7, the program restart all over.
> If I press Enter, the program gets out of debug mode.

Umm.. which debugger is that?  My debugger doesn't have shift-F9...

-a




From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Aug 22 07:40:33 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 22 Aug 2009 11:40:33 GMT
Subject: How to 'de-slashify' a string?
References: <4a8faa47$0$31283$607ed4bc@cv.net>
	<00193b65$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4a8fc3d1$0$22535$607ed4bc@cv.net>
Message-ID: <00195c9b$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 06:09:20 -0400, AK wrote:

>> Is pygresql quoting the backslash, or do you just think it is quoting
>> the backslashes? How do you know? E.g. if you have '\\303', what is the
>> length of that? 4 or 5?
> 
> Length is 4, and I need it to be length of 1. E.g.:
> 
>  >>> s = '\303'
>  >>> s
> '\xc3'
>  >>> x = '\\303'
>  >>> x
> '\\303'
>  >>> len(x)
> 4
>  >>> len(s)
> 1
> 
> 
> What I get from pygresql is x, what I need is s. Either by asking
> pygresql to do this or convert it afterwards. I can't do
> replace('\\303', '\303') because it can be any unicode character.


Use the 'unicode-escape' codec to decode the byte-string to Unicode.

>>> s = '\\303\\266'
>>> print s
\303\266
>>> s
'\\303\\266'
>>> len(s)
8
>>> u = s.decode('unicode-escape')
>>> print u
??
>>> u
u'\xc3\xb6'
>>> len(u)
2



-- 
Steven


From vlastimil.brom at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 07:43:22 2009
From: vlastimil.brom at gmail.com (Vlastimil Brom)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 13:43:22 +0200
Subject: How to 'de-slashify' a string?
In-Reply-To: <4a8fce05$0$31285$607ed4bc@cv.net>
References: <4a8faa47$0$31283$607ed4bc@cv.net>
	<00193b65$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4a8fc3d1$0$22535$607ed4bc@cv.net>
	
	<4a8fce05$0$31285$607ed4bc@cv.net>
Message-ID: <9fdb569a0908220443i47998230o115e6109835e3b67@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/22 AK :
> Vlastimil Brom wrote:
>>
>> 2009/8/22 AK :
>>>
>>> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 04:20:23 -0400, AK wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi, if I have a string '\\303\\266', how can I convert it to '\303\266'
>>>>> in a general way?
>>>>
>>>> It's not clear what you mean.
>>>>
>>>> Do you mean you have a string '\\303\\266', that is:
>>>>
>>>> backslash backslash three zero three backslash backslash two six six
>>>>
>>>> If so, then the simplest way is:
>>>>
>>>>>>> s = r'\\303\\266' ?# note the raw string
>>>>>>> len(s)
>>>>
>>>> 10
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> print s
>>>>
>>>> \\303\\266
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> print s.replace('\\\\', '\\')
>>>>
>>>> \303\266
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Another possibility:
>>>>
>>>>>>> s = '\\303\\266' ?# this is not a raw string
>>>>>>> len(s)
>>>>
>>>> 8
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> print s
>>>>
>>>> \303\266
>>>>
>>>> So s is:
>>>> backslash three zero three backslash two six six
>>>>
>>>> and you don't need to do any more.
>>>
>>> Well, I need the string itself to become '\303\266', not to print
>>> that way. In other words, when I do 'print s', it should display
>>> unicode characters if my term is set to show them, instead of
>>> showing \303\266.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The problem I'm running into is that I'm connecting with pygresql to a
>>>>> postgres database and when I get fields that are of 'char' type, I get
>>>>> them in unicode, but when I get fields of 'byte' type, I get the text
>>>>> with quoted slashes, e.g. '\303' becomes '\\303' and so on.
>>>>
>>>> Is pygresql quoting the backslash, or do you just think it is quoting
>>>> the
>>>> backslashes? How do you know? E.g. if you have '\\303', what is the
>>>> length
>>>> of that? 4 or 5?
>>>
>>> Length is 4, and I need it to be length of 1. E.g.:
>>>
>>>>>> s = '\303'
>>>>>> s
>>>
>>> '\xc3'
>>>>>>
>>>>>> x = '\\303'
>>>>>> x
>>>
>>> '\\303'
>>>>>>
>>>>>> len(x)
>>>
>>> 4
>>>>>>
>>>>>> len(s)
>>>
>>> 1
>>>
>>>
>>> What I get from pygresql is x, what I need is s. Either by asking
>>> pygresql
>>> to do this or convert it afterwards. I can't do replace('\\303', '\303')
>>> because it can be any unicode character.
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> AK
>>> --
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>>
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>> do you mean something like
>>
>>>>> u"\u0303"
>>
>> u'\u0303'
>>>>>
>>>>> print u"\u0303"
>>
>> ?
>> ? ?? (dec.: 771) ?(hex.: 0x303) ? ? COMBINING TILDE (Mark, Nonspacing)
>> ?
>>
>> vbr
>
> Yes, something like that except that it starts out as '\\303\\266', and it's
> good enough for me if it turns into '\303\266', in fact that's rendered as
> one unicode char. In other words, when you do:
>
>>>> print "\\303\\266"
> '\303\266'
>
> I need that result to become a python string, i.e. the slashes need to
> be converted from literal slashes to escape slashes.
>
>
>
>
> --
> AK
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

Not sure, whether it is the right way of handling the such text data, but maybe:

>>> decoded = '\\303\\266'.decode("string_escape")
>>> decoded
'\xc3\xb6'
>>> print decoded
??
>>> print '\303\266'
??
>>>

It might be an IDLE issue, but it still isn't one unicode glyph.

I guess, you have to ensure, that the input data is valid and the
right encoding is used.

hth
  vbr


From jfine at pytex.org  Sat Aug 22 08:04:02 2009
From: jfine at pytex.org (Jonathan Fine)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 13:04:02 +0100
Subject: Using 'apply' as a decorator, to define constants
In-Reply-To: <00194fa2$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 		<3c82e522-e879-473b-b814-d9bcd9d905de@u20g2000prg.googlegroups.com>		<001937d5$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	
	<00194fa2$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 10:51:27 +0100, Jonathan Fine wrote:
> 
>> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>
>>> There's a standard idiom for that, using the property() built-in, for
>>> Python 2.6 or better.
>>>
>>> Here's an example including a getter, setter, deleter and doc string,
>>> with no namespace pollution, imports, or helper functions or deprecated
>>> built-ins:
>>>
>>> class ColourThing(object):
>>>     @property
>>>     def rgb(self):
>>>         """Get and set the (red, green, blue) colours.""" return
>>>         (self.r, self.g, self.b)
>>>     @rgb.setter
>>>     def rgb(self, rgb):
>>>         self.r, self.g, self.b = rgb
>>>     @rgb.deleter
>>>     def rgb(self):
>>>         del self.r, self.g, self.b
>>
>> Sorry, Steve, but I don't understand this.  In fact, I don't even see
>> how it can be made to work.
> 
> Nevertheless, it does work, and it's not even magic. It's described (very 
> briefly) in the docstring for property: help(property) will show it to 
> you. More detail is here:
> 
> http://docs.python.org/library/functions.html#property

My apologies.  I wasn't up to date with my Python versions:

| Changed in version 2.6: The getter, setter, and deleter
| attributes were added.

I was still thinking Python2.5 (or perhaps earlier?).  I still don't 
like it.  All those repetitions of 'rgb'.

-- 
Jonathan


From lists at cheimes.de  Sat Aug 22 08:35:21 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:35:21 +0200
Subject: grokproject and zope.security==3.4.1 error
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Manuel A. Iglesias Abbatemarco schrieb:
> I will apprreciate if someone could help me with the following error.
> 
> I a trying to create a grokproject application in my debian 5.0 box,
> the following is the output after executing # grokproject Sample
> command.
> 
> Getting distribution for 'zope.security==3.4.1'.
> 
> src/zope/security/_proxy.c:19:20: error: Python.h: No such file or directory


sudo apt-get install python2.4-dev

Have fun :)

Christian



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Aug 22 08:55:39 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 13:55:39 +0100
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: 
References: 			<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4A8FEACB.7030202@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 16:52:29 -0700 (PDT), James Harris
>  declaimed the following in
> gmane.comp.python.general:
> 
>> So you are saying that Smalltalk has r where
>> r is presumably for radix? That's maybe best of all. It preserves the
>> syntactic requirement of starting a number with a digit and seems to
>> have greatest flexibility. Not sure how good it looks but it's
>> certainly not bad.
>>
>>   0xff & 0x0e | 0b1101
>>   16rff & 16r0e | 2r1101
>>
>> Hmm. Maybe a symbol would be better than a letter.
>>
> 	Or Ada's	16#FF#, 8#377#...
> 
'#' starts a comment, so that's right out! :-)

> 	I forget if DEC/VMS FORTRAN or Xerox Sigma FORTRAN used x'FF' or
> 'FF'x, and o'377' or '377'o



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Aug 22 08:55:42 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 13:55:42 +0100
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: <1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
References: 			<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <4A8FEACE.9060503@mrabarnett.plus.com>

David wrote:
> Il Fri, 21 Aug 2009 16:52:29 -0700 (PDT), James Harris ha scritto:
> 
> 
>>   0xff & 0x0e | 0b1101
>>   16rff & 16r0e | 2r1101
>>
>> Hmm. Maybe a symbol would be better than a letter.
> 
> What about 2_1011, 8_7621, 16_c26h or 2;1011, 8;7621, 16;c26h ?
> 
'_': what if in the future we want to allow them in numbers for clarity?

';': used to separate multiple statements on a line (but not used that
often).


From catalinfest at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 09:14:25 2009
From: catalinfest at gmail.com (catafest)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 06:14:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: PIL and Python
References: 
	<9683190f-3c99-49d6-93d1-d8966d38d7a6@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> 
	 
	 
	<5df342cf-c742-42d6-bc8c-97a3c44a0816@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: 

If I make it work, i will send the solution. Thank you !



From stef.mientki at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 09:40:51 2009
From: stef.mientki at gmail.com (Stef Mientki)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 15:40:51 +0200
Subject: debugger
In-Reply-To: <1250940857.28537.0.camel@centar.nbk>
References: <71854089-ba76-40c8-8a81-e224711cf7c0@i8g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<1250940857.28537.0.camel@centar.nbk>
Message-ID: <4A8FF563.5070003@gmail.com>

Albert Hopkins wrote:
> On Sat, 2009-08-22 at 01:17 -0700, flagmino wrote:
> [...]
>   
>> I am trying to debug:
>> I press shift-F9 and F7. I end up in the interpreter where I enter s2
>> (1, 2).
>>
>> >From that point if I press F7, the program restart all over.
>> If I press Enter, the program gets out of debug mode.
>>     
>
> Umm.. which debugger is that?  My debugger doesn't have shift-F9...
>   
then you probably not working under windows ...

Stef


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Sat Aug 22 09:52:44 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 15:52:44 +0200
Subject: How to 'de-slashify' a string?
References: <4a8faa47$0$31283$607ed4bc@cv.net>
	<00193b65$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4a8fc3d1$0$22535$607ed4bc@cv.net>
	
	<4a8fce05$0$31285$607ed4bc@cv.net>
	
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Vlastimil Brom  (VB) wrote:

>>>>> decoded = '\\303\\266'.decode("string_escape")
>>>>> decoded
>VB> '\xc3\xb6'
>>>>> print decoded
>VB> ??
>>>>> print '\303\266'
>VB> ??
>>>>> 

>VB> It might be an IDLE issue, but it still isn't one unicode glyph.

>VB> I guess, you have to ensure, that the input data is valid and the
>VB> right encoding is used.

>>> decoded = '\\303\\266'.decode("string_escape").decode('utf-8')
>>> decoded
u'\xf6'
>>> print decoded
?

-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Sat Aug 22 10:07:52 2009
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 09:07:52 -0500
Subject: debugger
In-Reply-To: <4A8FF563.5070003@gmail.com>
References: <71854089-ba76-40c8-8a81-e224711cf7c0@i8g2000pro.googlegroups.com>	<1250940857.28537.0.camel@centar.nbk>
	<4A8FF563.5070003@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A8FFBB8.4070706@tim.thechases.com>

Stef Mientki wrote:
> Albert Hopkins wrote:
>> On Sat, 2009-08-22 at 01:17 -0700, flagmino wrote:
>> [...]
>>   
>>> I am trying to debug:
>>> I press shift-F9 and F7. I end up in the interpreter where I enter s2
>>> (1, 2).
>>>
>>> >From that point if I press F7, the program restart all over.
>>> If I press Enter, the program gets out of debug mode.
>>>     
>> Umm.. which debugger is that?  My debugger doesn't have shift-F9...
>>   
> then you probably not working under windows ...

Even under Windows, you still have to specify your environment. 
In both Win32 and *nix I use pdb as my debugger and shift+F9 does 
nothing ;-)

So the question is what is the debugger the OP is using?  Because 
it's not pdb. :)

-tkc





From grante at visi.com  Sat Aug 22 10:08:09 2009
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 09:08:09 -0500
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: <2h2hwo918umw.1ihpdwjimzge8$.dlg@40tude.net>
	<6a523329-3287-4271-ba37-7be450cfc5f6@d32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4a8edc29$0$1599$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-22, Dennis Lee Bieber  wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 10:45:51 -0700, John Nagle 
> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>
>> 
>>      And it's over.  We can finally dispense with octal by default.
>>
> 	I've not looked at modern Intel processor format, but if there are
> folks still using variants of 8080 (8051?) and Z-80, Octal still works
> nice for op-codes... I don't recall the exact values, but the MOV
> instruction was something like '1SD'o, where S and D are three bit
> register specifications (A, B, C, D, E, H, L, and Memory as I recall)

The Heathkit's terminal I have uses a Z80, and IIRC, the
assembly listings were in split-octal [a 16 bit word ranges
from 000 000 to 377 377]. Stuff for the PDP-11 (which also had
instruction fields 3 bits wide) was always in octal as well.
The PDP-11 is pretty much dead, but I think there are embedded
Z80 derivitives still in use.

-- 
Grant



From ebonak at hotmail.com  Sat Aug 22 10:25:37 2009
From: ebonak at hotmail.com (Esmail)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 10:25:37 -0400
Subject: your favorite debugging tool?
Message-ID: 

Hi all,

What is your favorite tool to help you debug your
code? I've been getting along with 'print' statements
but that is getting old and somewhat cumbersome.

I'm primarily interested in utilities for Linux (but
if you have recommendations for Windows, I'll take
them too :)

I use emacs as my primary development environment, FWIW.
Someone mentioned winpdb .. anyone have experience/comments
on this? Others?

Thanks,
Esmail



From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Sat Aug 22 10:37:08 2009
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 07:37:08 -0700
Subject: debugger
In-Reply-To: <71854089-ba76-40c8-8a81-e224711cf7c0@i8g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
References: <71854089-ba76-40c8-8a81-e224711cf7c0@i8g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

flagmino wrote:
> To get familiar with the debugger, I have loaded this program:
> 
> import math
> 
> def s1(x, y):
>    a = (x + y)
>    print("Answer from s1"), a
>    return
> 
> def s2(x, y):
>    b = (x - y)
>    print("This comes from s2"), b
>    #print z
>    print("call from s2: "), s1(x, y)
>    return
> 
> I am trying to debug:
> I press shift-F9 and F7. I end up in the interpreter where I enter s2
> (1, 2).
> 
> From that point if I press F7, the program restart all over.
> If I press Enter, the program gets out of debug mode.
> 
> Please help me figuring out how I can use the dbugger. You are welcome
> to send a sound file if this is easier for you.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> ray
You need to tell us:
     Which Python version (e.g. 2.6.2)
     Which "platform" (hardware & OS) (e.g. 64-bit AMD FreeBSD)
     Which debugger (e.g. Idle)
     What you expected to happen that did not, and why you expected it.
     or What happened and why you did not expect it.

Often you can lots of this information by going to your debugger window 
and doing Help // About, and go to your Python environment and type:
     import sys
     print sys.version # cut the results and paste in your message as
"sys.version says, "'2.6.2 (r262:71605, ...'"  [don't do dots yourself]

To understand more of why we need this on every question, see:
http://www.mikeash.com/getting_answers.html
or google for "smart questions".

--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Aug 22 10:49:22 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 22 Aug 2009 07:49:22 -0700
Subject: your favorite debugging tool?
References: 
Message-ID: 

In article ,
Esmail   wrote:
>
>What is your favorite tool to help you debug your code? I've been
>getting along with 'print' statements but that is getting old and
>somewhat cumbersome.

Despite the fact that I've been using Python for more than a decade,
print is still my mainstay (or possibly logging to a file).
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I support family values -- Addams family values" --www.nancybuttons.com


From davea at ieee.org  Sat Aug 22 10:51:08 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 10:51:08 -0400
Subject: Blank Line at Program Exit
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A9005DC.1050906@ieee.org>

Steven Woody wrote:
> Hi,
> Any python program, even that does absolutely nothing in the code, will
> cause a blank line printed out when the program exit.  What's the reason?
>  Thanks.
>
>
>   
I think the "blank line" is coming from your shell.  In Windows, I 
believe the shell emits a newline after running a program, probably to 
make sure the prompt starts in column 0.

Note that if your python program writes a partial line to stdout, this 
will "finish" the line before giving you the next prompt.  So the line 
isn't necessarily blank.

DaveA


From marduk at letterboxes.org  Sat Aug 22 10:59:55 2009
From: marduk at letterboxes.org (Albert Hopkins)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 10:59:55 -0400
Subject: Decompressing gzip over FTP
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <1250953195.7115.5.camel@centar.nbk>

On Fri, 2009-08-21 at 18:15 -0700, SeanMon wrote:
> Is there a way to decompress a large (2GB) gzipped file being
> retrieved over FTP on the fly?
> 
> I'm using ftplib.FTP to open a connection to a remote server, and I
> have had no success connecting retrbinary to gzip without using an
> intermediate file.
> 
> Is there any way to get a file-like object describing the remote file,
> or a way to utilize gzip's decompression without providing it a file-
> like object?

I tried to solve your problem with StringIO and .truncate().  I also
tried to solve it with us.pipe(), but was unsuccessful with either.  The
problem is the gzip module uses .seek() which you can't do with pipes...

You could probably get away with just using the compress module (as zlib
does) but you will have to deal with handling the headers, footers, CRC
checks, etc. on your own.

The cheap alternative is to just have your script open a pipe to "gunzip
-c" and read/write from that pipe.

hth,
-a




From ryniek90 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 11:00:41 2009
From: ryniek90 at gmail.com (ryniek90)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 17:00:41 +0200
Subject: TypeError while checking for permissions with os.access() on
	windows xp
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A900819.8010702@gmail.com>


> First, some nitpicking: Include the whole traceback when posting about
> errors please.  Don't write "if some_boolean_expression != True:"
> instead prefer "if not some_boolean_expression:".  Also, in your code
> "except (Except), ex: return ex" the parentheses are redundant,
> there's no "Except" Exception (unless you created one yourself) and
> why are you catching and returning the Exception object?  (Also,
> what's that "sys.exit(0)" doing in there? And why exit with 0 if there
> was a problem? Exit code 0 means "no problem".)
>
>
> Second, from what you've said backup_dest must be None:
>
>   
>>>> import os
>>>> os.access(None, os.W_OK)
>>>>         
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "", line 1, in 
>     os.access(None, os.W_OK)
> TypeError: coercing to Unicode: need string or buffer, NoneType found
>
>   

No, backup_dest is destination for backup. It's this variable: 
*backup_dest = self.__backup_dest* .
*self.__backup_dest = os.getenv('HOME')*  -  as you can see, 
self.__backup_dest is a reference to the home directory which is a 
string. Then backup_dest is a reference to the variable 
self.__backup_dest. But that second reference seems to be recognised as 
a NoneType ??

I'm using optparse in my script (that code for checking for permission 
is a part of my backup script).

Maybe i post my complete code:
"
#!/usr/bin/env python
#-*- coding: utf-8 -*-
#MyBackUper

import os, sys, tarfile
import datetime
from optparse import OptionParser


class Except(Exception):
    pass


class Packer(Except):

    def __init__(self):
        self.__backup_dest = os.getenv('HOME')
        __current_time = datetime.datetime.today().strftime('%Y-%m-%d 
%H:%M:%S')
        Except.__init__(self)

    def doc_note(self):

        print """

        DOCUMENTATION

        'Backuper' is a script for doing backups.
        You can backup with it single files or whole directories.
        For available commands type 'backuper.py -h' or 'backuper.py 
--help'.

        Using it is simple:

        - to backup single file, type:
        'backuper.py -f FILE_PATH BCKP_NAME [DEST_PATH]',
        where 'FILE_PATH' is exact path to prefered file which you want 
to backup and 'BCKP_NAME' is the name for backup output file. Default 
'DEST_PATH' is placed in home directory, it can't be changed. 
'BCKP_NAME' must be given;

        - to backup whole directory, type:
        'backuper.py -d DIR_PATH BCKP_NAME [DEST_PATH]', where 
'DIR_PATH' is exact path to prefered directory, which you want to backup 
and 'BCKP_NAME' is the name for backup output file. Default 'DEST_PATH' 
is placed in home directory, it can't be changed. 'BCKP_NAME' must be given;

        """

    def __check_set_perm(self, rd_obj_path, backup_dest):

        try:

            if os.path.exists(rd_obj_path):
                if not os.access(rd_obj_path, os.R_OK):
                    print "Have no permissions on [%s] for reading 
operation.\nTrying to set them..." % os.path.split(rd_obj_path)[1]
                    if not os.path.isdir(rd_obj_path):
                        os.chmod(rd_obj_path, stat.S_IREAD)
                    else:
                        for root, dirs, files in os.walk(rd_obj_path):
                            for f in files:
                                os.chmod(os.path.join(root, f), 
stat.S_IREAD)
                    print "Get permissions for reading on [%s] 
successfully." % os.path.split(rd_obj_path)[1]
                else:
                    print "Have permissions on [%s] for reading." % 
os.path.split(rd_obj_path)[1]

                if not os.access(backup_dest, os.W_OK):
                    print "Have no permissions on [%s] for writing 
operation.\nTrying to set them..." % os.path.split(backup_dest)[1]
                    os.chmod(backup_dest, stat.S_IWRITE)
                    print "Get permissions for reading on [%s] 
successfully." % os.path.split(backup_dest)[1]
                else:
                    print "Have permissions on [%s] for writing." % 
os.path.split(backup_dest)[1]
            else:
                return "Can't find specified path - [%s]." % rd_obj_path
                sys.exit(1)

        except (Except), ex:
            return ex


    def backup_file(self, rd_obj_path, bkp_obj_name):

        try:

            if os.name == "nt":
                rd_obj_path = rd_obj_path.replace('~/', '%s\\' % 
os.getenv('HOME')).replace('\\', '\\\\')
                backup_dest = self.__backup_dest
                print "Checking permissions for reading and writing..."
                self.__check_set_perm(rd_obj_path, backup_dest)
                backup_obj = tarfile.open("%s\\%s(%s).tar.bz2" % 
(backup_dest, bkp_obj_name, __current_time), 'w:bz2')

            else:
                rd_obj_path = rd_obj_path.replace('~/', '%s/' % 
os.getenv('HOME'))
                backup_dest = self.__backup_dest
                print "Checking permissions for reading and writing..."
                self.__check_set_perm(rd_obj_path, backup_dest)
                backup_obj = tarfile.open("%s/%s(%s).tar.bz2" % 
(backup_dest, bkp_obj_name, __current_time), 'w:bz2')

            print "Preparing for backup [%s]..." % 
os.path.split(rd_obj_path)[1]
            print "Starting backup..."
            read_obj = open(rd_obj_path, 'rb')
            print "Now adding [%s]..." % os.path.split(rd_obj_path)[1]
            backup_obj.add(read_obj.read())
            read_obj.close(), backup_obj.close()
            print "Backup [%s] made successfully. :-)" % 
os.path.split(backup_dest)[1]

        except (Except), ex:
            return ex

    def backup_dir(self, rd_obj_path, bkp_obj_name):

        try:

            if os.name == "nt":
                rd_obj_path = rd_obj_path.replace('~/', '%s\\' % 
os.getenv('HOME')).replace('\\', '\\\\')
                backup_dest = self.__backup_dest
                print "Checking permissions for reading and writing..."
                self.__check_set_perm(rd_obj_path, backup_dest)
                backup_obj = tarfile.open("%s\\%s(%s).tar.bz2" % 
(backup_dest, bkp_obj_name, __current_time), 'w:bz2')

            else:
                rd_obj_path = rd_obj_path.replace('~/', '%s/' % 
os.getenv('HOME'))
                backup_dest = self.__backup_dest
                print "Checking permissions for reading and writing..."
                self.__check_set_perm(rd_obj_path, backup_dest)
                backup_obj = tarfile.open("%s/%s(%s).tar.bz2" % 
(backup_dest, bkp_obj_name, __current_time), 'w:bz2')

            print "Preparing for backup '%s'..." % 
os.path.split(rd_obj_path)[1]
            print "Gathering files for backup..."
            path_list = []
            for root, dirs, files in os.walk(rd_obj_path):
                for f in files:
                    path_list.append(os.path.join(root, f))
            print "Starting backup..."
            for p in path_list:
                fl = open(p, 'rb')
                print "Now adding [%s] from [%s] directory" % 
(os.path.split(p)[1], os.path.split(p)[0])
                backup_obj.add(fl.read())
                fl.close()
                print "Added [%s] successfully" % os.path.split(p)[1]
            backup_obj.close()
            print "Backup [%s] made successfully. :-)" % 
os.path.split(backup_dest)[1]

        except (Except), ex:
            return ex


class ParseIt(object):

    def __init__(self):
        self.__initial = True

    _usage = "usage: %prog [options] Arg1 Arg2"
    parser = OptionParser(_usage)
    parser.add_option("-f", "--file", action="store", type="string", 
dest="filename", help="Make backup of a single file", metavar="FILE_PATH 
CKP_NAME", nargs=2)
    parser.add_option("-d", "--dir", action="store", type="string", 
dest="dirname", help="Recursively backup a whole directory", 
metavar="DIR_PATH BCKP_NAME", nargs=2)
    parser.add_option("-i", "--info", dest="info_note", 
action="store_true", help="Show script's documentation")

    (options, args) = parser.parse_args()

def main_meth():
    paq = Packer()
    pars = ParseIt()
    if pars.options.filename:
        paq.backup_file(pars.options.filename[0], pars.options.filename[1])
    elif pars.options.dirname:
        paq.backup_dir(pars.options.dirname[0], pars.options.dirname[1])
    elif pars.options.info_note:
        paq.doc_note()


if __name__ == "__main__":
    main_meth()

"




From davea at ieee.org  Sat Aug 22 11:15:32 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 11:15:32 -0400
Subject: debugger
In-Reply-To: <4A8FF563.5070003@gmail.com>
References: <71854089-ba76-40c8-8a81-e224711cf7c0@i8g2000pro.googlegroups.com>	<1250940857.28537.0.camel@centar.nbk>
	<4A8FF563.5070003@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A900B94.6060607@ieee.org>

Stef Mientki wrote:
> 
Albert 
> Hopkins wrote:
>> On Sat, 2009-08-22 at 01:17 -0700, flagmino wrote:
>> [...]
>>  
>>> I am trying to debug:
>>> I press shift-F9 and F7. I end up in the interpreter where I enter s2
>>> (1, 2).
>>>
>>> >From that point if I press F7, the program restart all over.
>>> If I press Enter, the program gets out of debug mode.
>>>     
>>
>> Umm.. which debugger is that?  My debugger doesn't have shift-F9...
>>   
> then you probably not working under windows ...
>
> Stef
>
> 

>
That doesn't help.  If you want help, describe the environment.  Python 
version, OS, and what command you did to start this "debugger."  Or at 
least its name.

The Windows debugger is called Debug.exe, and it doesn't accept 
Shift-F9.  But I doubt the OP was talking about that one.  Komodo 
doesn't seem to do anything with Shift-F9 either.

PythonWin doesn't seem to, nor does Idle.   Most of these could be 
customized, but that's besides the point.

In version:  2.6.2 (r262:71600, Apr 21 2009, 15:05:37) [MSC v.1500 32 
bit (Intel)],  running under XPsp3, with win32 extensions loaded, there 
are a bunch of files called debug or debugger.  Which one might be meant 
here?

Or perhaps the debugger was part of NetBeans, or Eclipse, or some other IDE?

DaveA


From nitebirdz at sacredchaos.com  Sat Aug 22 11:25:16 2009
From: nitebirdz at sacredchaos.com (Nitebirdz)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 17:25:16 +0200
Subject: Blank Line at Program Exit
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <20090822152515.GC10584@sevilla.sacredchaos.com>

On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 01:31:14PM +0800, Steven Woody wrote:
> Hi,
> Any python program, even that does absolutely nothing in the code, will
> cause a blank line printed out when the program exit.  What's the reason?
>  Thanks.
> 

Chances are it is related to whichever operating system and/or shell you
are using.  For instance, this is taken from a system running Ubuntu
Linux 8.04:

-------------------------------------------------
laptop:$ cat hello.py
#!/usr/bin/env python

print "Hello, there!"
laptop:$ ./hello.py
Hello, there!
laptop:$ cat nothing.py 
#!/usr/bin/env python

laptop:$ ./nothing.py 
laptop:$ 
-------------------------------------------------


As you can see, no blank line was printed out. 



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Aug 22 11:49:30 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 16:49:30 +0100
Subject: debugger
In-Reply-To: <4A900B94.6060607@ieee.org>
References: <71854089-ba76-40c8-8a81-e224711cf7c0@i8g2000pro.googlegroups.com>	<1250940857.28537.0.camel@centar.nbk>	<4A8FF563.5070003@gmail.com>
	<4A900B94.6060607@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <4A90138A.4000905@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Dave Angel wrote:
> Stef Mientki wrote:
>> 
Albert 
>> Hopkins wrote:
>>> On Sat, 2009-08-22 at 01:17 -0700, flagmino wrote:
>>> [...]
>>>  
>>>> I am trying to debug:
>>>> I press shift-F9 and F7. I end up in the interpreter where I enter s2
>>>> (1, 2).
>>>>
>>>> >From that point if I press F7, the program restart all over.
>>>> If I press Enter, the program gets out of debug mode.
>>>>     
>>>
>>> Umm.. which debugger is that?  My debugger doesn't have shift-F9...
>>>   
>> then you probably not working under windows ...
>>
>> Stef
>>
>> 

>>
> That doesn't help.  If you want help, describe the environment.  Python 
> version, OS, and what command you did to start this "debugger."  Or at 
> least its name.
> 
> The Windows debugger is called Debug.exe, and it doesn't accept 
> Shift-F9.  But I doubt the OP was talking about that one.  Komodo 
> doesn't seem to do anything with Shift-F9 either.
> 
> PythonWin doesn't seem to, nor does Idle.   Most of these could be 
> customized, but that's besides the point.
> 
> In version:  2.6.2 (r262:71600, Apr 21 2009, 15:05:37) [MSC v.1500 32 
> bit (Intel)],  running under XPsp3, with win32 extensions loaded, there 
> are a bunch of files called debug or debugger.  Which one might be meant 
> here?
> 
> Or perhaps the debugger was part of NetBeans, or Eclipse, or some other 
> IDE?
> 
It might be winpdb, although I haven't been able to confirm it.


From davea at ieee.org  Sat Aug 22 13:36:12 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 13:36:12 -0400
Subject: TypeError while checking for permissions with os.access() on
	windows xp
In-Reply-To: <4A900819.8010702@gmail.com>
References: 
	<4A900819.8010702@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A902C8C.4070108@ieee.org>

ryniek90 wrote:
> 

>> First, some nitpicking: Include the whole traceback when posting about
>> errors please.  Don't write "if some_boolean_expression != True:"
>> instead prefer "if not some_boolean_expression:".  Also, in your code
>> "except (Except), ex: return ex" the parentheses are redundant,
>> there's no "Except" Exception (unless you created one yourself) and
>> why are you catching and returning the Exception object?  (Also,
>> what's that "sys.exit(0)" doing in there? And why exit with 0 if there
>> was a problem? Exit code 0 means "no problem".)
>>
>>
>> Second, from what you've said backup_dest must be None:
>>
>>  
>>>>> import os
>>>>> os.access(None, os.W_OK)
>>>>>         
>>
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "", line 1, in 
>>     os.access(None, os.W_OK)
>> TypeError: coercing to Unicode: need string or buffer, NoneType found
>>
>>   
>
> No, backup_dest is destination for backup. It's this variable: 
> *backup_dest = self.__backup_dest* .
> *self.__backup_dest = os.getenv('HOME')*  -  as you can see, 
> self.__backup_dest is a reference to the home directory which is a 
> string. Then backup_dest is a reference to the variable 
> self.__backup_dest. But that second reference seems to be recognised 
> as a NoneType ??
>
> I'm using optparse in my script (that code for checking for permission 
> is a part of my backup script).
>
> Maybe i post my complete code:
> "
> #!/usr/bin/env python
> #-*- coding: utf-8 -*-
> #MyBackUper
>
> import os, sys, tarfile
> import datetime
> from optparse import OptionParser
>
>
> class Except(Exception):
>    pass
>
>
> class Packer(Except):
>
>    def __init__(self):
>        self.__backup_dest = os.getenv('HOME')
>        __current_time = datetime.datetime.today().strftime('%Y-%m-%d 
> %H:%M:%S')
>        Except.__init__(self)
>
>    def doc_note(self):
>
>        print """
>
>        DOCUMENTATION
>
>        'Backuper' is a script for doing backups.
>        You can backup with it single files or whole directories.
>        For available commands type 'backuper.py -h' or 'backuper.py 
> --help'.
>
>        Using it is simple:
>
>        - to backup single file, type:
>        'backuper.py -f FILE_PATH BCKP_NAME [DEST_PATH]',
>        where 'FILE_PATH' is exact path to prefered file which you want 
> to backup and 'BCKP_NAME' is the name for backup output file. Default 
> 'DEST_PATH' is placed in home directory, it can't be changed. 
> 'BCKP_NAME' must be given;
>
>        - to backup whole directory, type:
>        'backuper.py -d DIR_PATH BCKP_NAME [DEST_PATH]', where 
> 'DIR_PATH' is exact path to prefered directory, which you want to 
> backup and 'BCKP_NAME' is the name for backup output file. Default 
> 'DEST_PATH' is placed in home directory, it can't be changed. 
> 'BCKP_NAME' must be given;
>
>        """
>
>    def __check_set_perm(self, rd_obj_path, backup_dest):
>
>        try:
>
>            if os.path.exists(rd_obj_path):
>                if not os.access(rd_obj_path, os.R_OK):
>                    print "Have no permissions on [%s] for reading 
> operation.\nTrying to set them..." % os.path.split(rd_obj_path)[1]
>                    if not os.path.isdir(rd_obj_path):
>                        os.chmod(rd_obj_path, stat.S_IREAD)
>                    else:
>                        for root, dirs, files in os.walk(rd_obj_path):
>                            for f in files:
>                                os.chmod(os.path.join(root, f), 
> stat.S_IREAD)
>                    print "Get permissions for reading on [%s] 
> successfully." % os.path.split(rd_obj_path)[1]
>                else:
>                    print "Have permissions on [%s] for reading." % 
> os.path.split(rd_obj_path)[1]
>
>                if not os.access(backup_dest, os.W_OK):
>                    print "Have no permissions on [%s] for writing 
> operation.\nTrying to set them..." % os.path.split(backup_dest)[1]
>                    os.chmod(backup_dest, stat.S_IWRITE)
>                    print "Get permissions for reading on [%s] 
> successfully." % os.path.split(backup_dest)[1]
>                else:
>                    print "Have permissions on [%s] for writing." % 
> os.path.split(backup_dest)[1]
>            else:
>                return "Can't find specified path - [%s]." % rd_obj_path
>                sys.exit(1)
>
>        except (Except), ex:
>            return ex
>
>
>    def backup_file(self, rd_obj_path, bkp_obj_name):
>
>        try:
>
>            if os.name == "nt":
>                rd_obj_path = rd_obj_path.replace('~/', '%s\\' % 
> os.getenv('HOME')).replace('\\', '\\\\')
>                backup_dest = self.__backup_dest
>                print "Checking permissions for reading and writing..."
>                self.__check_set_perm(rd_obj_path, backup_dest)
>                backup_obj = tarfile.open("%s\\%s(%s).tar.bz2" % 
> (backup_dest, bkp_obj_name, __current_time), 'w:bz2')
>
>            else:
>                rd_obj_path = rd_obj_path.replace('~/', '%s/' % 
> os.getenv('HOME'))
>                backup_dest = self.__backup_dest
>                print "Checking permissions for reading and writing..."
>                self.__check_set_perm(rd_obj_path, backup_dest)
>                backup_obj = tarfile.open("%s/%s(%s).tar.bz2" % 
> (backup_dest, bkp_obj_name, __current_time), 'w:bz2')
>
>            print "Preparing for backup [%s]..." % 
> os.path.split(rd_obj_path)[1]
>            print "Starting backup..."
>            read_obj = open(rd_obj_path, 'rb')
>            print "Now adding [%s]..." % os.path.split(rd_obj_path)[1]
>            backup_obj.add(read_obj.read())
>            read_obj.close(), backup_obj.close()
>            print "Backup [%s] made successfully. :-)" % 
> os.path.split(backup_dest)[1]
>
>        except (Except), ex:
>            return ex
>
>    def backup_dir(self, rd_obj_path, bkp_obj_name):
>
>        try:
>
>            if os.name == "nt":
>                rd_obj_path = rd_obj_path.replace('~/', '%s\\' % 
> os.getenv('HOME')).replace('\\', '\\\\')
>                backup_dest = self.__backup_dest
>                print "Checking permissions for reading and writing..."
>                self.__check_set_perm(rd_obj_path, backup_dest)
>                backup_obj = tarfile.open("%s\\%s(%s).tar.bz2" % 
> (backup_dest, bkp_obj_name, __current_time), 'w:bz2')
>
>            else:
>                rd_obj_path = rd_obj_path.replace('~/', '%s/' % 
> os.getenv('HOME'))
>                backup_dest = self.__backup_dest
>                print "Checking permissions for reading and writing..."
>                self.__check_set_perm(rd_obj_path, backup_dest)
>                backup_obj = tarfile.open("%s/%s(%s).tar.bz2" % 
> (backup_dest, bkp_obj_name, __current_time), 'w:bz2')
>
>            print "Preparing for backup '%s'..." % 
> os.path.split(rd_obj_path)[1]
>            print "Gathering files for backup..."
>            path_list = []
>            for root, dirs, files in os.walk(rd_obj_path):
>                for f in files:
>                    path_list.append(os.path.join(root, f))
>            print "Starting backup..."
>            for p in path_list:
>                fl = open(p, 'rb')
>                print "Now adding [%s] from [%s] directory" % 
> (os.path.split(p)[1], os.path.split(p)[0])
>                backup_obj.add(fl.read())
>                fl.close()
>                print "Added [%s] successfully" % os.path.split(p)[1]
>            backup_obj.close()
>            print "Backup [%s] made successfully. :-)" % 
> os.path.split(backup_dest)[1]
>
>        except (Except), ex:
>            return ex
>
>
> class ParseIt(object):
>
>    def __init__(self):
>        self.__initial = True
>
>    _usage = "usage: %prog [options] Arg1 Arg2"
>    parser = OptionParser(_usage)
>    parser.add_option("-f", "--file", action="store", type="string", 
> dest="filename", help="Make backup of a single file", 
> metavar="FILE_PATH CKP_NAME", nargs=2)
>    parser.add_option("-d", "--dir", action="store", type="string", 
> dest="dirname", help="Recursively backup a whole directory", 
> metavar="DIR_PATH BCKP_NAME", nargs=2)
>    parser.add_option("-i", "--info", dest="info_note", 
> action="store_true", help="Show script's documentation")
>
>    (options, args) = parser.parse_args()
>
> def main_meth():
>    paq = Packer()
>    pars = ParseIt()
>    if pars.options.filename:
>        paq.backup_file(pars.options.filename[0], 
> pars.options.filename[1])
>    elif pars.options.dirname:
>        paq.backup_dir(pars.options.dirname[0], pars.options.dirname[1])
>    elif pars.options.info_note:
>        paq.doc_note()
>
>
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>    main_meth()
>
> "
>
>
>
> 

>
I don't know why you didn't immediately add a print statement just 
before the failing os.access(), once you saw the error message.  You 
could have printed out both the formal parameter and the instance attribute.

Simple explanation:  you probably don't have an environment variable 
named "HOME".  I don't either, on Windows.  You need to test for that, 
and put some error handling, so the lack of an environment variable 
won't crash your program.

 > Then backup_dest is a reference to the variable self.__backup_dest. 
But that second reference seems to be recognised as a NoneType ??

backup_dest is a local variable which is a reference to whatever object 
self.__backup_dest referenced.  That could be a very different thing.  
But in this case the subtlety isn't important -- they're both 
referencing None, which is the object returned by os.getenv() when the 
requested environment variable doesn't exist.

DaveA



From kee at kagi.com  Sat Aug 22 13:46:51 2009
From: kee at kagi.com (Kee Nethery)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 10:46:51 -0700
Subject: string literal vs string variable
In-Reply-To: <4a8fc954$0$31331$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
References: <51b22a8c-54de-484e-9b3c-9baeb4498f69@q40g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	
	<4a8fc954$0$31331$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: 


On Aug 22, 2009, at 3:32 AM, Stefan Behnel wrote:

>
> You can use both, but I suspect parsing from StringIO to be slower  
> than
> parsing from the string directly. That's the case for lxml, at least.
>
> Note that fromstring() behaves the same as XML(), but it reads  
> better when
> parsing from a string variable. XML() reads better when parsing from a
> literal string.

I'm not sure I know the difference between a string variable and a  
literal string. Is the difference as simple as:

somestring = u'hello world'
fromstring(somestring)  <-- string variable
vs
XML(u'hello world')  <-- literal string

Kee




From gnuist006 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 14:11:32 2009
From: gnuist006 at gmail.com (bolega)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 11:11:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: sed/awk/perl: How to replace all spaces each with an underscore that 
	occur before a specific string ?
Message-ID: <1380cb14-6462-4585-b2d1-c59c99ff9b56@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

sed/awk/perl:

How to replace all spaces each with an underscore that occur before a
specific string ?

I really prefer a sed one liner.

Example
Input :  This is my book. It is too  thick to read. The author gets
little royalty but the publisher makes a lot.
Output: This_is_my_book._It_is_too__thick_to read. The author gets
little royalty but the publisher makes a lot.

We replaced all the spaces with underscores before the first occurence
of the string "to ".

Thanks
Gnuist





From carlosfabianramirez at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 14:12:50 2009
From: carlosfabianramirez at gmail.com (Carlos Fabian Ramirez)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:12:50 -0400
Subject: Urllib2 not working
Message-ID: <51303220908221112w79ccb746i900c22d45fff07c7@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,
When I try to open a URL using urllib2.urlopen it returns Name or service
not known. It is not a problem with my Internet I believe, since I have
Internet access on my computer, and I have verified it is not a syntax, or
spelling, error on my part. I have also tried accessing the site (google.com)
by IP like so:
urllib2.urlopen('http://74.125.67.100/')
but this does not work either.
This is a traceback of an attempt to access it through its URL (
http://www.google.com/)
http://dpaste.com/84016/
Any help would be very appreciated.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

From w_a_x_man at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 22 14:24:56 2009
From: w_a_x_man at yahoo.com (w_a_x_man)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 11:24:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: sed/awk/perl: How to replace all spaces each with an underscore 
	that occur before a specific string ?
References: <1380cb14-6462-4585-b2d1-c59c99ff9b56@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1bc82397-1e91-4055-879a-c178534e1c17@z24g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 22, 1:11?pm, bolega  wrote:
> sed/awk/perl:
>
> How to replace all spaces each with an underscore that occur before a
> specific string ?
>
> I really prefer a sed one liner.
>
> Example
> Input : ?This is my book. It is too ?thick to read. The author gets
> little royalty but the publisher makes a lot.
> Output: This_is_my_book._It_is_too__thick_to read. The author gets
> little royalty but the publisher makes a lot.
>
> We replaced all the spaces with underscores before the first occurence
> of the string "to ".
>
> Thanks
> Gnuist

awk 'BEGIN{FS=OFS="to "}{gsub(/ /,"_",$1);print}' myfile


From MacRules at nome.com  Sat Aug 22 14:25:25 2009
From: MacRules at nome.com (MacRules)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:25:25 -0400
Subject: Python - insert image / pdf / blob files to MySQL, MSSQL
Message-ID: <4a903814$0$10311$607ed4bc@cv.net>

Where to find code examples?

Or someone can post sample codes here.

Thanks


From code at pizzashack.org  Sat Aug 22 15:04:17 2009
From: code at pizzashack.org (Derek Martin)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:04:17 -0500
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: <87d46ok948.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: 
	<87d46ok948.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <20090822190417.GW20434@dragontoe.org>

On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 10:03:35AM +1000, Ben Finney wrote:
> > and the former is virtually indistinguishable from 00012, O0012, or
> > many other combinations that someone might accidentally type (or
> > intentionally type, having to do this in dozens of other programming
> > languages).
> 
> Only if you type the letter in uppercase. The lower-case ?o? is much
> easier to distinguish.

It is easier, but I dispute that it is much easier.
 
> Whether or not you find ?0o012? easily distinguishable as a non-decimal
> notation, it's undoubtedly easier to distinguish than ?012?.

012 has meant  decimal 10 in octal to me for so long, from its use in
MANY other programming languages, that I disagree completely.  

> > I can see how 012 can be confusing to new programmers, but at least
> > it's legible, and the great thing about humans is that they can be
> > taught (usually). I for one think this change is completely misguided.
> 
> These human programmers, whether newbies or long-experienced, also deal
> with decimal numbers every day, many of which are presented as a
> sequence of digits with leading zeros ? and we continue to think of them
> as decimal numbers regardless. Having the language syntax opposed to
> that is 
 
...consistent with virtually every other popular programming language.

-- 
Derek D. Martin
http://www.pizzashack.org/
GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D

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From ryniek90 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 15:16:11 2009
From: ryniek90 at gmail.com (ryniek90)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 21:16:11 +0200
Subject: TypeError while checking for permissions with os.access() on
	windows xp
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A9043FB.7070108@gmail.com>

>
>>> First, some nitpicking: Include the whole traceback when posting about
>>> errors please.  Don't write "if some_boolean_expression != True:"
>>> instead prefer "if not some_boolean_expression:".  Also, in your code
>>> "except (Except), ex: return ex" the parentheses are redundant,
>>> there's no "Except" Exception (unless you created one yourself) and
>>> why are you catching and returning the Exception object?  (Also,
>>> what's that "sys.exit(0)" doing in there? And why exit with 0 if there
>>> was a problem? Exit code 0 means "no problem".)
>>>
>>>
>>> Second, from what you've said backup_dest must be None:
>>>
>>>  
>>>>>> import os
>>>>>> os.access(None, os.W_OK)
>>>>>>         
>>>
>>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>>   File "", line 1, in 
>>>     os.access(None, os.W_OK)
>>> TypeError: coercing to Unicode: need string or buffer, NoneType found
>>>
>>>   
>>
>> No, backup_dest is destination for backup. It's this variable: 
>> *backup_dest = self.__backup_dest* .
>> *self.__backup_dest = os.getenv('HOME')*  -  as you can see, 
>> self.__backup_dest is a reference to the home directory which is a 
>> string. Then backup_dest is a reference to the variable 
>> self.__backup_dest. But that second reference seems to be recognised 
>> as a NoneType ??
>>
>> I'm using optparse in my script (that code for checking for 
>> permission is a part of my backup script).
>>
>> Maybe i post my complete code:
>> "
>> #!/usr/bin/env python
>> #-*- coding: utf-8 -*-
>> #MyBackUper
>>
>> import os, sys, tarfile
>> import datetime
>> from optparse import OptionParser
>>
>>
>> class Except(Exception):
>>    pass
>>
>>
>> class Packer(Except):
>>
>>    def __init__(self):
>>        self.__backup_dest = os.getenv('HOME')
>>        __current_time = datetime.datetime.today().strftime('%Y-%m-%d 
>> %H:%M:%S')
>>        Except.__init__(self)
>>
>>    def doc_note(self):
>>
>>        print """
>>
>>        DOCUMENTATION
>>
>>        'Backuper' is a script for doing backups.
>>        You can backup with it single files or whole directories.
>>        For available commands type 'backuper.py -h' or 'backuper.py 
>> --help'.
>>
>>        Using it is simple:
>>
>>        - to backup single file, type:
>>        'backuper.py -f FILE_PATH BCKP_NAME [DEST_PATH]',
>>        where 'FILE_PATH' is exact path to prefered file which you 
>> want to backup and 'BCKP_NAME' is the name for backup output file. 
>> Default 'DEST_PATH' is placed in home directory, it can't be changed. 
>> 'BCKP_NAME' must be given;
>>
>>        - to backup whole directory, type:
>>        'backuper.py -d DIR_PATH BCKP_NAME [DEST_PATH]', where 
>> 'DIR_PATH' is exact path to prefered directory, which you want to 
>> backup and 'BCKP_NAME' is the name for backup output file. Default 
>> 'DEST_PATH' is placed in home directory, it can't be changed. 
>> 'BCKP_NAME' must be given;
>>
>>        """
>>
>>    def __check_set_perm(self, rd_obj_path, backup_dest):
>>
>>        try:
>>
>>            if os.path.exists(rd_obj_path):
>>                if not os.access(rd_obj_path, os.R_OK):
>>                    print "Have no permissions on [%s] for reading 
>> operation.\nTrying to set them..." % os.path.split(rd_obj_path)[1]
>>                    if not os.path.isdir(rd_obj_path):
>>                        os.chmod(rd_obj_path, stat.S_IREAD)
>>                    else:
>>                        for root, dirs, files in os.walk(rd_obj_path):
>>                            for f in files:
>>                                os.chmod(os.path.join(root, f), 
>> stat.S_IREAD)
>>                    print "Get permissions for reading on [%s] 
>> successfully." % os.path.split(rd_obj_path)[1]
>>                else:
>>                    print "Have permissions on [%s] for reading." % 
>> os.path.split(rd_obj_path)[1]
>>
>>                if not os.access(backup_dest, os.W_OK):
>>                    print "Have no permissions on [%s] for writing 
>> operation.\nTrying to set them..." % os.path.split(backup_dest)[1]
>>                    os.chmod(backup_dest, stat.S_IWRITE)
>>                    print "Get permissions for reading on [%s] 
>> successfully." % os.path.split(backup_dest)[1]
>>                else:
>>                    print "Have permissions on [%s] for writing." % 
>> os.path.split(backup_dest)[1]
>>            else:
>>                return "Can't find specified path - [%s]." % rd_obj_path
>>                sys.exit(1)
>>
>>        except (Except), ex:
>>            return ex
>>
>>
>>    def backup_file(self, rd_obj_path, bkp_obj_name):
>>
>>        try:
>>
>>            if os.name == "nt":
>>                rd_obj_path = rd_obj_path.replace('~/', '%s\\' % 
>> os.getenv('HOME')).replace('\\', '\\\\')
>>                backup_dest = self.__backup_dest
>>                print "Checking permissions for reading and writing..."
>>                self.__check_set_perm(rd_obj_path, backup_dest)
>>                backup_obj = tarfile.open("%s\\%s(%s).tar.bz2" % 
>> (backup_dest, bkp_obj_name, __current_time), 'w:bz2')
>>
>>            else:
>>                rd_obj_path = rd_obj_path.replace('~/', '%s/' % 
>> os.getenv('HOME'))
>>                backup_dest = self.__backup_dest
>>                print "Checking permissions for reading and writing..."
>>                self.__check_set_perm(rd_obj_path, backup_dest)
>>                backup_obj = tarfile.open("%s/%s(%s).tar.bz2" % 
>> (backup_dest, bkp_obj_name, __current_time), 'w:bz2')
>>
>>            print "Preparing for backup [%s]..." % 
>> os.path.split(rd_obj_path)[1]
>>            print "Starting backup..."
>>            read_obj = open(rd_obj_path, 'rb')
>>            print "Now adding [%s]..." % os.path.split(rd_obj_path)[1]
>>            backup_obj.add(read_obj.read())
>>            read_obj.close(), backup_obj.close()
>>            print "Backup [%s] made successfully. :-)" % 
>> os.path.split(backup_dest)[1]
>>
>>        except (Except), ex:
>>            return ex
>>
>>    def backup_dir(self, rd_obj_path, bkp_obj_name):
>>
>>        try:
>>
>>            if os.name == "nt":
>>                rd_obj_path = rd_obj_path.replace('~/', '%s\\' % 
>> os.getenv('HOME')).replace('\\', '\\\\')
>>                backup_dest = self.__backup_dest
>>                print "Checking permissions for reading and writing..."
>>                self.__check_set_perm(rd_obj_path, backup_dest)
>>                backup_obj = tarfile.open("%s\\%s(%s).tar.bz2" % 
>> (backup_dest, bkp_obj_name, __current_time), 'w:bz2')
>>
>>            else:
>>                rd_obj_path = rd_obj_path.replace('~/', '%s/' % 
>> os.getenv('HOME'))
>>                backup_dest = self.__backup_dest
>>                print "Checking permissions for reading and writing..."
>>                self.__check_set_perm(rd_obj_path, backup_dest)
>>                backup_obj = tarfile.open("%s/%s(%s).tar.bz2" % 
>> (backup_dest, bkp_obj_name, __current_time), 'w:bz2')
>>
>>            print "Preparing for backup '%s'..." % 
>> os.path.split(rd_obj_path)[1]
>>            print "Gathering files for backup..."
>>            path_list = []
>>            for root, dirs, files in os.walk(rd_obj_path):
>>                for f in files:
>>                    path_list.append(os.path.join(root, f))
>>            print "Starting backup..."
>>            for p in path_list:
>>                fl = open(p, 'rb')
>>                print "Now adding [%s] from [%s] directory" % 
>> (os.path.split(p)[1], os.path.split(p)[0])
>>                backup_obj.add(fl.read())
>>                fl.close()
>>                print "Added [%s] successfully" % os.path.split(p)[1]
>>            backup_obj.close()
>>            print "Backup [%s] made successfully. :-)" % 
>> os.path.split(backup_dest)[1]
>>
>>        except (Except), ex:
>>            return ex
>>
>>
>> class ParseIt(object):
>>
>>    def __init__(self):
>>        self.__initial = True
>>
>>    _usage = "usage: %prog [options] Arg1 Arg2"
>>    parser = OptionParser(_usage)
>>    parser.add_option("-f", "--file", action="store", type="string", 
>> dest="filename", help="Make backup of a single file", 
>> metavar="FILE_PATH CKP_NAME", nargs=2)
>>    parser.add_option("-d", "--dir", action="store", type="string", 
>> dest="dirname", help="Recursively backup a whole directory", 
>> metavar="DIR_PATH BCKP_NAME", nargs=2)
>>    parser.add_option("-i", "--info", dest="info_note", 
>> action="store_true", help="Show script's documentation")
>>
>>    (options, args) = parser.parse_args()
>>
>> def main_meth():
>>    paq = Packer()
>>    pars = ParseIt()
>>    if pars.options.filename:
>>        paq.backup_file(pars.options.filename[0], 
>> pars.options.filename[1])
>>    elif pars.options.dirname:
>>        paq.backup_dir(pars.options.dirname[0], pars.options.dirname[1])
>>    elif pars.options.info_note:
>>        paq.doc_note()
>>
>>
>> if __name__ == "__main__":
>>    main_meth()
>>
>> "
>>
>>
>>
>> 

>>
> I don't know why you didn't immediately add a print statement just 
> before the failing os.access(), once you saw the error message.  You 
> could have printed out both the formal parameter and the instance 
> attribute.
>
> Simple explanation:  you probably don't have an environment variable 
> named "HOME".  I don't either, on Windows.  You need to test for that, 
> and put some error handling, so the lack of an environment variable 
> won't crash your program.
>
> > Then backup_dest is a reference to the variable self.__backup_dest. 
> But that second reference seems to be recognised as a NoneType ??
>
> backup_dest is a local variable which is a reference to whatever 
> object self.__backup_dest referenced.  That could be a very different 
> thing.  But in this case the subtlety isn't important -- they're both 
> referencing None, which is the object returned by os.getenv() when the 
> requested environment variable doesn't exist.
>
> DaveA

Yes, You have right Dave.
This reference don't exist in windows's cmd.exe, but in IDLE does.

Check this out:

"
Microsoft Windows XP [Wersja 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.

C:\Documents and Settings\Adrian-Admin>python
ActivePython 2.6.2.2 (ActiveState Software Inc.) based on
Python 2.6.2 (r262:71600, Apr 21 2009, 15:05:37) [MSC v.1500 32 bit 
(Intel)] on
win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> import os
 >>> os.getenv('HOME')
 >>> print os.getenv('HOME')
None
 >>>
"

And now output from IDLE:
"
Python 2.5.4 (r254:67916, Dec 23 2008, 15:10:54) [MSC v.1310 32 bit 
(Intel)] on win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license()" for more information.

    ****************************************************************
    Personal firewall software may warn about the connection IDLE
    makes to its subprocess using this computer's internal loopback
    interface.  This connection is not visible on any external
    interface and no data is sent to or received from the Internet.
    ****************************************************************
   
IDLE 1.2.4     
 >>> import os
 >>> os.getenv('HOME')
'C:\\Documents and Settings\\Adrian-Admin'
 >>>
"

WTF??
Why on IDLE it works, but when i run this script in cmd.exe, the 
os.getenv('HOME') goes NoneType?
I'm to newbie yet to understand this  :/

That's the example with Traceback:

"
C:\Documents and Settings\Adrian-Admin\Moje dokumenty\My 
Dropbox\Aplikacje\Moje_aplikacje\Pythonowe_aplikacje\Skrypty>python 
backuper.py -f E:\ISO\archlinux-2009.02-core-i686.img ArchLinBackup
Checking permissions for reading and writing...
Have permissions on [archlinux-2009.02-core-i686.img] for reading.
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "backuper.py", line 200, in 
    main_meth()
  File "backuper.py", line 190, in main_meth
    paq.backup_file(pars.options.filename[0], pars.options.filename[1])
  File "backuper.py", line 111, in backup_file
    self.__check_set_perm(rd_obj_path, self._backup_dest)
  File "backuper.py", line 90, in __check_set_perm
    if not os.access(self._backup_dest, os.W_OK):
TypeError: coercing to Unicode: need string or buffer, NoneType found

C:\Documents and Settings\Adrian-Admin\Moje dokumenty\My 
Dropbox\Aplikacje\Moje_aplikacje\Pythonowe_aplikacje\Skrypty>
"

So....it's cmd.exe fault?


From sajmikins at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 15:27:52 2009
From: sajmikins at gmail.com (Simon Forman)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 15:27:52 -0400
Subject: Urllib2 not working
In-Reply-To: <51303220908221112w79ccb746i900c22d45fff07c7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <51303220908221112w79ccb746i900c22d45fff07c7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50f98a4c0908221227k4cfe3387t205c91ba20d5e514@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Carlos Fabian
Ramirez wrote:
> Hello,
> When I try to open a URL using urllib2.urlopen it returns Name or service
> not known. It is not a problem with my Internet I believe, since I have
> Internet access on my computer, and I have verified it is not a syntax, or
> spelling, error on my part. I have also tried accessing the site
> (google.com) by IP like so:
> urllib2.urlopen('http://74.125.67.100/')
> but this does not work either.
> This is a traceback of an attempt to access it through its URL
> (http://www.google.com/)
> http://dpaste.com/84016/
> Any help would be very appreciated.
>

Try googling the error message "Name or service not known" and urllib2.

HTH


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 15:30:16 2009
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 12:30:16 -0700
Subject: TypeError while checking for permissions with os.access() on 
	windows xp
In-Reply-To: <4A9043FB.7070108@gmail.com>
References:  
	<4A9043FB.7070108@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c20908221230p673bffdane36b67482ab4621f@mail.gmail.com>

>
>
> WTF??
> Why on IDLE it works, but when i run this script in cmd.exe, the
> os.getenv('HOME') goes NoneType?
> I'm to newbie yet to understand this  :/
>

HOME is simply not a standard environment variable that Windows provides.
Any program can set/add environment variables as it deems fit; in this case
it seems IDLE is setting one, but you can't rely on it outside of IDLE.

If you do os.environ["HOMEDRIVE"] + os.environ["HOMEPATH"] it may be what
you want.

Start up cmd.exe, type 'set' -- that's the default/standard environment
variables you have to work with. That's it.

--S
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From jurajg at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 15:49:52 2009
From: jurajg at gmail.com (Juraj G.)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 21:49:52 +0200
Subject: difference between raw_input() and input()
In-Reply-To: <029d53bb$0$25987$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <3c91915d-bcb1-4ea9-9b37-6b30ea0588a0@e34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<029d53bb$0$25987$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <3cdfc0a80908221249t7b7042b8reab3b0202ef3b2a3@mail.gmail.com>

if you prefix number with zero, it will turn into octal number... I
too wasn't aware of it... at least in python :/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octal
It seems like bad practice to put zeroes before any decimal number in
any language :)
Juraj


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Sat Aug 22 15:49:55 2009
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:49:55 -0500
Subject: sed/awk/perl: How to replace all spaces each with an underscore
	that    occur before a specific string ?
In-Reply-To: <1380cb14-6462-4585-b2d1-c59c99ff9b56@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <1380cb14-6462-4585-b2d1-c59c99ff9b56@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A904BE3.6030507@tim.thechases.com>

bolega wrote:
> sed/awk/perl:

Better to post in the "sed" or "perl" mailing lists rather than a
Python list.  I saw an awk solution flew by.

> How to replace all spaces each with an underscore that occur
> before a specific string ?
> 
> I really prefer a sed one liner.

Here's a one-liner sed solution:

  sed '/to /{s//\n&/;h;s/.*\n//;x;s/\n.*//;s/ /_/g;G;s/\n//}'

There's a reason I prefer Python for these sorts of things: 
readability!  You win 5 free internets (as a stand-in for the 
"real life" you clearly don't have) if you can decipher that in 
under 20 seconds ;-)

expecting-to-see-NO CARRIER-after-typing-that'ly yers,

-tkc
+++ATH0













From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Sat Aug 22 16:11:20 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 22:11:20 +0200
Subject: Using 'apply' as a decorator, to define constants
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

21-08-2009 o 18:09:02 alex23  wrote:

> Unfortunately, apply() has been removed as a built-in in 3.x.

You can always implement it yourself :)

     def apply(function, args=(), keywords={}):
         return function(*args, **keywords)

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 16:27:02 2009
From: subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com (SUBHABRATA BANERJEE)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 01:57:02 +0530
Subject: Questions on XML
In-Reply-To: 
References: <51b22a8c-54de-484e-9b3c-9baeb4498f69@q40g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <97c638a50908221327ge57818ahc1bb4c9ad3eb186b@mail.gmail.com>

Should I help you? If you answered my questions I am differing from your
view I do not get any problem in processing Hindi or Bangla or any Indian
language in Python it is perfectly fine.
Best Regards,
Subhabrata.

On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 9:48 AM, Rami Chowdhury wrote:

>
> I am using primarily UTF-8 based strings, like Hindi or Bengali. Can I
>> use Python to help me in this regard?
>>
>
> I can say from experience that Python on Windows (at least, Python 2.5 on
> 32-bit Vista) works perfectly well with UTF-8 files containing Bangla. I
> have had trouble with working with the data in IDLE, however, which seems to
> prefer ASCII by default.
>
> -------------
> Rami Chowdhury
> "Never assume malice when stupidity will suffice." -- Hanlon's Razor
> 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)
>
>
>
>
>
> On Aug 21, 2009, at 19:15 , joy99 wrote:
>
>   Dear Group,
>>
>> I like to convert some simple strings of natural language to XML. May
>> I use Python to do this? If any one can help me, on this.
>>
>> I am using primarily UTF-8 based strings, like Hindi or Bengali. Can I
>> use Python to help me in this regard?
>>
>> How can I learn good XML aspects of Python. If any one can kindly name
>> me a book or URL.
>>
>> I am using Python2.6 on Windows XP with IDLE as GUI.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Subhabrata.
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>
>
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From piet at cs.uu.nl  Sat Aug 22 16:43:13 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 22:43:13 +0200
Subject: string literal vs string variable
References: <51b22a8c-54de-484e-9b3c-9baeb4498f69@q40g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	
	<4a8fc954$0$31331$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
	
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Kee Nethery  (KN) wrote:

>KN> On Aug 22, 2009, at 3:32 AM, Stefan Behnel wrote:

>>> 
>>> You can use both, but I suspect parsing from StringIO to be slower  than
>>> parsing from the string directly. That's the case for lxml, at least.
>>> 
>>> Note that fromstring() behaves the same as XML(), but it reads  better
>>> when
>>> parsing from a string variable. XML() reads better when parsing from a
>>> literal string.

>KN> I'm not sure I know the difference between a string variable and a  literal
>KN> string. Is the difference as simple as:

>KN> somestring = u'hello world'
>KN> fromstring(somestring)  <-- string variable
>KN> vs
>KN> XML(u'hello world')  <-- literal string

Yes.

Stefan probably means `looks better for the human reader' when he says
`reads better'. XML and fromstring are just different names for the same
function. 
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Sat Aug 22 16:44:35 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 22:44:35 +0200
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: <20090822190417.GW20434@dragontoe.org>
References: 
	<87d46ok948.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <20090822190417.GW20434@dragontoe.org>
Message-ID: 

22-08-2009 o 21:04:17 Derek Martin  wrote:

> On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 10:03:35AM +1000, Ben Finney wrote:

>> These human programmers, whether newbies or long-experienced, also deal
>> with decimal numbers every day, many of which are presented as a
>> sequence of digits with leading zeros ? and we continue to think of them
>> as decimal numbers regardless. Having the language syntax opposed to
>> that is

> ...consistent with virtually every other popular programming language.

Probably not every other...

Anyway -- being (as it was said) inconsistent with every-day-convention --
it'd be also inconsistent with *Python* conventions, i.e.:

0x <- hex prefix
0b <- bin prefix

Cheers,
*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Sat Aug 22 16:51:44 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 22:51:44 +0200
Subject: sed/awk/perl: How to replace all spaces each with an underscore
	that occur before a specific string ?
In-Reply-To: <1380cb14-6462-4585-b2d1-c59c99ff9b56@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <1380cb14-6462-4585-b2d1-c59c99ff9b56@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

22-08-2009 o 20:11:32 bolega  wrote:

> sed/awk/perl:
>
> How to replace all spaces each with an underscore that occur before a
> specific string ?

$ rm -rf /home/bolega ; python -c 'for i in xrange(1000): print "I will  
never crosspost senselessly."'

;~]

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 16:53:16 2009
From: subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com (joy99)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 13:53:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Questions on XML
References: <51b22a8c-54de-484e-9b3c-9baeb4498f69@q40g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	
	<4a8f87db$0$30221$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net> 
	
Message-ID: <11b8af5c-de10-4583-979c-64109c8fe698@g1g2000pra.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 22, 12:16?pm, Rami Chowdhury  wrote:
> > encoding declaration to the top of your source file if you use encoded
> > literal strings in your code
>
> Any tips for how to set the encoding in IDLE? printing the Unicode ?
> strings works -- trying to repr() the variable chokes with a ?
> UnicodeDecodeError, and trying to enter the literals inside IDLE just ?
> gets me '?' characters instead.
>
> (this is Python 2.5 + IDLE installed from the Python-2.5.msi on ?
> python.org)
>
> -------------
> Rami Chowdhury
> "Never assume malice when stupidity will suffice." -- Hanlon's Razor
> 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)
>
> On Aug 21, 2009, at 22:53 , Stefan Behnel wrote:
>
>
>
> > Rami Chowdhury wrote:
> >>> I am using primarily UTF-8 based strings, like Hindi or Bengali. ?
> >>> Can I
> >>> use Python to help me in this regard?
>
> >> I can say from experience that Python on Windows (at least, Python ?
> >> 2.5
> >> on 32-bit Vista) works perfectly well with UTF-8 files containing
> >> Bangla. I have had trouble with working with the data in IDLE, ?
> >> however,
> >> which seems to prefer ASCII by default.
>
> > Defaults almost never work for encodings. You have to be explicit: ?
> > add an
> > encoding declaration to the top of your source file if you use encoded
> > literal strings in your code; use the codecs module with a suitable
> > encoding to read encoded text files, and use an XML parser when ?
> > reading XML.
>
> > Stefan
> > --
> >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Dear Sir,

There is no big issue for this. I simply downloaded Python2.5 and
using IDLE on Windows XP with service pack 2. I used Python 2.5
earlier and presently using Python 2.6 and it is also perfectly fine.
I am not using it for small programs but machine learning programs,
where code itself runs few million lines over some terabytes of Hindi
and Bengali data, and I never found any problem. What is the exact
nature of problem you are getting? If you can kindly specify. If
possible, with some sample codes. And printing is also never been a
problem, all good printers like HP,Epson,Xerox,Canon are printing
Hindi or Bengali data finely.
If you can kindly specify the problem.

Best Regards,
Subhabrata.


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Sat Aug 22 17:06:57 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 23:06:57 +0200
Subject: string literal vs string variable
In-Reply-To: 
References: <51b22a8c-54de-484e-9b3c-9baeb4498f69@q40g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	
	<4a8fc954$0$31331$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
	
Message-ID: 

22-08-2009 o 19:46:51 Kee Nethery  wrote:

> I'm not sure I know the difference between a string variable and a  
> literal string. Is the difference as simple as:
>
> somestring = u'hello world'
> fromstring(somestring)  <-- string variable
> vs
> XML(u'hello world')  <-- literal string

Yes, simply:

     s = 'hello world'
     #    ^
     #    it is a *string literal*

     s  # <- it is a *string object*
        #    (or rather a name referring to it :-))

(In Python we have rather 'names' than 'variables', though -- as
a mental leap -- they are commonly referred to as 'variables',
regarding other languages' terminology).

Cheers,
*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From fuzzyman at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 17:25:08 2009
From: fuzzyman at gmail.com (Fuzzyman)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:25:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ANN: mock 0.6.0, Python mocking and testing library
Message-ID: <5a8c8a3a-8bf0-40ad-bf21-89b6fc6a3c9f@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

mock is a Python mock object library for testing, with additional
support for runtime monkey patching.

Most mocking libraries follow the ?record -> replay? pattern of
mocking. I prefer the ?action -> assertion? pattern, which is more
readable and intuitive; particularly when working with the Python
unittest module.

This release, version 0.6.0, is a minor release but with a few new
features:

* mock homepage http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/mock/
* download http://www.voidspace.org.uk/downloads/mock-0.6.0.zip
* PDF documentation http://www.voidspace.org.uk/downloads/mock.pdf
* Google code project and SVN repository http://code.google.com/p/mock/

New in 0.6.0:

* New test layout compatible with test discovery
* Descriptors (static methods / class methods etc) can now be patched
and restored correctly
* Mocks can raise exceptions when called by setting side_effect to an
exception class or instance
* Mocks that wrap objects will not pass on calls to the underlying
object if an explicit return_value is set



From countryone77 at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 22 17:26:16 2009
From: countryone77 at yahoo.com (Bev in TX)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:26:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: logging SMTPhandler Error
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 21, 8:34?am, Bev in TX  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I've done some Python programming, but I still consider myself a
> Python newbie. ?I have a Mac Pro OS X 10.5.8 system and I installed
> Python 2.6.2 (the latest package available for the Mac) yesterday.
>
> I was working through Matt Wilson's article on using the logging
> module:http://blog.tplus1.com/index.php/2007/09/28/the-python-logging-module...
> (If that does not work, then try:http://tinyurl.com/5v2lcy)
>
> Everything worked great until his last example. ?My ISP does not
> provide e-mail, so I tried using gmail in the line that sets h2. ?I
> substituted "mailid" for my actual e-mail address in the following
> examples; in my test I used my actual e-mail ID. ?Also, I used the
> full path to the newly installed Python 2.6.2; otherwise it picked up
> the older Python 2.5:
> #!/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/bin/python
>
> First attempt:
> h2 = logging.handlers.SMTPHandler('smtp.gmail.com', 'mai... at gmail.com',
> ['mai... at gmail.com'],'ERROR log')
> However, that caused the following error to be issued:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/
> python2.6/logging/handlers.py", line 868, in emit
> ? ? smtp.sendmail(self.fromaddr, self.toaddrs, msg)
> ? File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/
> python2.6/smtplib.py", line 698, in sendmail
> ? ? raise SMTPSenderRefused(code, resp, from_addr)
> SMTPSenderRefused: (530, '5.7.0 Must issue a STARTTLS command first.
> 7sm3867994qwf.47', 'mai... at gmail.com')
>
> I also tried providing my gmail userid/password, I tried adding a 5th,
> credential, argument, which is a tupple, (username,password) (new in
> 2.6).
>
> Second attempt:
> h2 = logging.handlers.SMTPHandler('smtp.gmail.com', 'mai... at gmail.com',
> ['mai... at gmail.com'],'ERROR log',('mai... at gmail.com','gmail-
> password'))
> However, that caused the following error message:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/
> python2.6/logging/handlers.py", line 867, in emit
> ? ? smtp.login(self.username, self.password)
> ? File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/
> python2.6/smtplib.py", line 552, in login
> ? ? raise SMTPException("SMTP AUTH extension not supported by
> server.")
> SMTPException: SMTP AUTH extension not supported by server.
>
> I am able access gmail via Mac's Mail, in which it says that outgoing
> mail is going to:
> ? ? ? smtp.gmail.com:mailid
> I tried using that as the server in the Python script, but it could
> not find that server.
>
> Is this possible? ?If I am doing something incorrectly, would someone
> please indicate what it is?
>
> Thanks,
> Bev in TX

Today I tried this with both Python 2.6.2 and 3.1.1 on an XP system,
with the same error.  For the 3.1.1 test, I had to change the syntax
of the exception from "except exc, var" to "except exc as var".  Here
is the modified script, with my email ID changed to "mailid":

import logging
import logging.handlers

#Make a global logging object
x = logging.getLogger("logfun")
x.setLevel(logging.DEBUG)

#This handler writes out everything to stdout
h1 = logging.StreamHandler()
f = logging.Formatter("%(levelname)s %(asctime)s %(funcName)s %(lineno)
d %(message)s")
h1.setFormatter(f)
h1.setLevel(logging.DEBUG)
x.addHandler(h1)

#This handler emails me anything that is an error or worse
h2 = logging.handlers.SMTPHandler('smtp.gmail.com', 'mailid at gmail.com',
['mailid at gmail.com'],'ERROR log')
f = logging.Formatter("%(levelname)s %(asctime)s %(funcName)s %(lineno)
d %(message)s")
h2.setLevel(logging.ERROR)
h2.setFormatter(f)
x.addHandler(h2)

def g():
  1 / 0

def f():
  logfun = logging.getLogger("logfun")
  logfun.debug("inside f!")
  try:
    g()
  except Exception as ex:
    logfun.exception("Something awful happened!")
  logfun.debug("Finishing f!")

if __name__ == "__main__":
  f()

Thanks,
Bev in TX


From ryniek90 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 17:37:22 2009
From: ryniek90 at gmail.com (ryniek90)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 23:37:22 +0200
Subject: TypeError while checking for permissions with os.access() on
	windows xp
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A906512.1060606@gmail.com>

>
>
>
>     WTF??
>     Why on IDLE it works, but when i run this script in cmd.exe, the
>     os.getenv('HOME') goes NoneType?
>     I'm to newbie yet to understand this  :/
>
>
> HOME is simply not a standard environment variable that Windows 
> provides. Any program can set/add environment variables as it deems 
> fit; in this case it seems IDLE is setting one, but you can't rely on 
> it outside of IDLE.
>
> If you do os.environ["HOMEDRIVE"] + os.environ["HOMEPATH"] it may be 
> what you want.
>
> Start up cmd.exe, type 'set' -- that's the default/standard 
> environment variables you have to work with. That's it.
>
> --S

Yep, now that variable works fine. Thanks.


From james.harris.1 at googlemail.com  Sat Aug 22 17:54:41 2009
From: james.harris.1 at googlemail.com (James Harris)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:54:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal notation
References:  
	
	 
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com> 
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: 

On 22 Aug, 10:27, David <71da... at libero.it> wrote:

... (snipped a discussion on languages and other systems interpreting
numbers with a leading zero as octal)

> > Either hexadecimal should have been 0h or octal should
> > have been 0t :=)
>
>
> I have seen the use of Q/q instead in order to make it clearer. I still
> prefer Smalltalk's 16rFF and 8r377.
>
>
> Two interesting options. In a project I have on I have also considered
> using 0q as indicating octal. I maybe saw it used once somewhere else
> but I have no idea where. 0t was a second choice and 0c third choice
> (the other letters of oct). 0o should NOT be used for obvious reasons.
>
> So you are saying that Smalltalk has r where
> r is presumably for radix? That's maybe best of all. It preserves the
> syntactic requirement of starting a number with a digit and seems to
> have greatest flexibility. Not sure how good it looks but it's
> certainly not bad.
>
>
> > ? 0xff & 0x0e | 0b1101
> > ? 16rff & 16r0e | 2r1101
>
> > Hmm. Maybe a symbol would be better than a letter.

...

> >        Or Ada's        16#FF#, 8#377#...

> >        I forget if DEC/VMS FORTRAN or Xerox Sigma FORTRAN used x'FF' or
> >   'FF'x, and o'377' or '377'o

...

>
> What about 2_1011, 8_7621, 16_c26h or 2;1011, 8;7621, 16;c26h ?

They look good - which is important. The trouble (for me) is that I
want the notation for a new programming language and already use these
characters. I have underscore as an optional separator for groups of
digits - 123000 and 123_000 mean the same. The semicolon terminates a
statement. Based on your second idea, though, maybe a colon could be
used instead as in

  2:1011, 8:7621, 16:c26b

I don't (yet) use it as a range operator.

I could also use a hash sign as although I allow hash to begin
comments it cannot be preceded by anything other than whitespace so
these would be usable

  2#1011, 8#7621, 16#c26b

I have no idea why Ada which uses the # also apparently uses it to end
a number

  2#1011#, 8#7621#, 16#c26b#

Copying this post also to comp.lang.misc. Folks there may either be
interested in the discussion or have comments to add.

James


From kkumerNOTTHIS at thatfamoussearchenginesmail.com  Sat Aug 22 18:49:22 2009
From: kkumerNOTTHIS at thatfamoussearchenginesmail.com (Kreso)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 22:49:22 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Items inheriting attributes from its container?
Message-ID: 

I would like to create a list-like container class so that, additionally
to usual list methods, I could attach attributes to the container instances.
However, I would like it so that the items contained in the particular
instance of container somehow 'inherit' those attributes i.e.

cont = Container()
cont.color = 'blue'
cont.append(item)
print item.color
'blue'

The example appended below does that, but with the restriction that container
attributes must be set in the instantiation phase. This is actually fine
for me at the moment because my objects are "read only", but I would
like to hear about better solutions, with more flexibility, please.


#-----8<----------------------------
class Player:
    """Class for items"""

    def __init__(self, playerdata, team):
        self.data = playerdata
        for key in team.__dict__:
            setattr(self, key, team.__dict__[key])
        return


class Team(list):
    """Class for containers"""
    
    def __init__(self, teamdata, playerdata):
        for key in teamdata:
            setattr(self, key, teamdata[key])
        for item in playerdata:
            self.append(Player(item, self))
        return
            

lakersdata = {'name' : 'Lakers', 'kitcolor' : 'yellow'}
lakersplayers = [['Kobe', 'PG', 12, 123], ['Kareem', 'FW', 23, 345]]

lakers = Team(lakersdata, lakersplayers)

# This is fine:
p1 = lakers[1]
print p1.kitcolor

# However the following doesn't work:
lakers.kitcolor = 'blue'
print p1.kitcolor

#-----8<----------------------------


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sat Aug 22 18:52:29 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 15:52:29 -0700
Subject: line completion
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908221552k3a44156ek509a35ad0764dd2b@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Steven Woody wrote:
> Hi,
> I wrote a program that takes some user input. ?Many inputs are quit often
> used by user, so when a user launch the program, and type in "The Sha", ?he
> wants to get "wshank Redemption" displayed automatically in reversed color
> (black text on white background) along his cursor. ?When he decided to use
> "The Shawshank Redemption", he just press the enter key, otherwise, he type
> in other words anyway.
> My question is, is there any module that can easy the implementation of this
> feature? ?Thanks.

The `readline` module in the standard library:
http://docs.python.org/library/readline.html

Although I don't know how to get it to colorize the interface.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From mortonspam at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 19:02:27 2009
From: mortonspam at gmail.com (Ed Morton)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 16:02:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: sed/awk/perl: How to replace all spaces each with an underscore 
	that occur before a specific string ?
References: <1380cb14-6462-4585-b2d1-c59c99ff9b56@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 22, 1:11?pm, bolega  wrote:
> sed/awk/perl:
>
> How to replace all spaces each with an underscore that occur before a
> specific string ?
>
> I really prefer a sed one liner.

Why?

> Example
> Input : ?This is my book. It is too ?thick to read. The author gets
> little royalty but the publisher makes a lot.
> Output: This_is_my_book._It_is_too__thick_to read. The author gets
> little royalty but the publisher makes a lot.
>
> We replaced all the spaces with underscores before the first occurence
> of the string "to ".

No, you replaced all ... the string "to " (note the space).

awk '{idx=index($0,"to "); tgt=substr($0,1,idx-1); gsub(/ /,"_",tgt);
print tgt substr($0,idx)}' file

   Ed.


From lists at cheimes.de  Sat Aug 22 19:14:03 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 01:14:03 +0200
Subject: Items inheriting attributes from its container?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Kreso schrieb:
> I would like to create a list-like container class so that, additionally
> to usual list methods, I could attach attributes to the container instances.
> However, I would like it so that the items contained in the particular
> instance of container somehow 'inherit' those attributes i.e.

The Python web application framework Zope implements the feature under 
the name "acquisition". Happy Googling!

Christian



From mwilson at the-wire.com  Sat Aug 22 19:16:39 2009
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 19:16:39 -0400
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal
	notation
References: 
	
	
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
Message-ID: 

James Harris wrote:

> I have no idea why Ada which uses the # also apparently uses it to end
> a number
> 
>   2#1011#, 8#7621#, 16#c26b#

Interesting.  They do it because of this example from 
:

2#1#E8                    -- an integer literal of value 256

where the E prefixes a power-of-2 exponent, and can't be taken as a digit of 
the radix.  That is to say

16#1#E2

would also equal 256, since it's 1*16**2 .


	Mel.



From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 19:45:20 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 16:45:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References:  
	<87d46ok948.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 22, 12:04?pm, Derek Martin  wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 10:03:35AM +1000, Ben Finney wrote:
> > These human programmers, whether newbies or long-experienced, also deal
> > with decimal numbers every day, many of which are presented as a
> > sequence of digits with leading zeros ? and we continue to think of them
> > as decimal numbers regardless. Having the language syntax opposed to
> > that is
>
> ...consistent with virtually every other popular programming language.


If you know anything about Python, you should know that "consistent
with virtually every other programming langauge" is, at most, a polite
suggestion for how Python should do it.


Carl Banks


From somebody at somewhere.com  Sat Aug 22 19:46:26 2009
From: somebody at somewhere.com (Stephen Fairchild)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 00:46:26 +0100
Subject: Items inheriting attributes from its container?
References: 
Message-ID: <_MSdnWJk2KnPHg3XnZ2dnUVZ8hmdnZ2d@giganews.com>

Kreso wrote:

> I would like to create a list-like container class so that, additionally
> to usual list methods, I could attach attributes to the container
> instances. However, I would like it so that the items contained in the
> particular instance of container somehow 'inherit' those attributes i.e.
> 
> cont = Container()
> cont.color = 'blue'
> cont.append(item)
> print item.color
> 'blue'
> 
> The example appended below does that, but with the restriction that
> container attributes must be set in the instantiation phase. This is
> actually fine for me at the moment because my objects are "read only", but
> I would like to hear about better solutions, with more flexibility,
> please.
> 
> 
> #-----8<----------------------------
> class Player:
>     """Class for items"""
> 
>     def __init__(self, playerdata, team):
>         self.data = playerdata
>         for key in team.__dict__:
>             setattr(self, key, team.__dict__[key])
>         return
> 
> 
> class Team(list):
>     """Class for containers"""
>     
>     def __init__(self, teamdata, playerdata):
>         for key in teamdata:
>             setattr(self, key, teamdata[key])
>         for item in playerdata:
>             self.append(Player(item, self))
>         return
>             
> 
> lakersdata = {'name' : 'Lakers', 'kitcolor' : 'yellow'}
> lakersplayers = [['Kobe', 'PG', 12, 123], ['Kareem', 'FW', 23, 345]]
> 
> lakers = Team(lakersdata, lakersplayers)
> 
> # This is fine:
> p1 = lakers[1]
> print p1.kitcolor
> 
> # However the following doesn't work:
> lakers.kitcolor = 'blue'
> print p1.kitcolor
> 
> #-----8<----------------------------

I hope this gives you some good ideas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Join_(SQL)

I suspect you will be finding a use for the special __getattr__ method,
which is called when an attribute is not found. This can be used to search
on your set of joined objects. Your list of joined objects should be a
set() to prevent duplicates.
-- 
Stephen Fairchild


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sat Aug 22 19:49:40 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 16:49:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 21, 12:48?pm, Derek Martin  wrote:
> John Nagle wrote:
> > Yes, and making lead zeros an error as suggested in PEP 3127 is a
> > good idea. ?It will be interesting to see what bugs that flushes
> > out.
> James Harris wrote:
> > It maybe made sense once but this relic of the past should have been
> > consigned to the waste bin of history long ago.
>
> Sigh. ?Nonsense. ?I use octal notation *every day*, for two extremely
> prevalent purposes: file creation umask, and Unix file permissions
> (i.e. the chmod() function/command).

Unix file permissions maybe made sense once but this relic of the past
should have been consigned to the waste bin of history long ago.  :)


Carl Banks


From nad at acm.org  Sat Aug 22 20:07:29 2009
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 17:07:29 -0700
Subject: logging SMTPhandler Error
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

In article 
,
 Bev in TX  wrote:
> On Aug 21, 8:34?am, Bev in TX  wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I've done some Python programming, but I still consider myself a
> > Python newbie. ?I have a Mac Pro OS X 10.5.8 system and I installed
> > Python 2.6.2 (the latest package available for the Mac) yesterday.
> >
> > I was working through Matt Wilson's article on using the logging
> > module:http://blog.tplus1.com/index.php/2007/09/28/the-python-logging-module
> > ...
> > (If that does not work, then try:http://tinyurl.com/5v2lcy)
> >
> > Everything worked great until his last example. ?My ISP does not
> > provide e-mail, so I tried using gmail in the line that sets h2. ?I
> > substituted "mailid" for my actual e-mail address in the following
> > examples; in my test I used my actual e-mail ID. ?Also, I used the
> > full path to the newly installed Python 2.6.2; otherwise it picked up
> > the older Python 2.5:
> > #!/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/bin/python
> >
> > First attempt:
> > h2 = logging.handlers.SMTPHandler('smtp.gmail.com', 'mai... at gmail.com',
> > ['mai... at gmail.com'],'ERROR log')
> > However, that caused the following error to be issued:
> >
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> > ? File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/
> > python2.6/logging/handlers.py", line 868, in emit
> > ? ? smtp.sendmail(self.fromaddr, self.toaddrs, msg)
> > ? File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/lib/
> > python2.6/smtplib.py", line 698, in sendmail
> > ? ? raise SMTPSenderRefused(code, resp, from_addr)
> > SMTPSenderRefused: (530, '5.7.0 Must issue a STARTTLS command first.
> > 7sm3867994qwf.47', 'mai... at gmail.com')

The problem here is that gmail, like most modern mail services, requires 
the use of an encrypted (SSL or TLS) connection for mail relaying so 
that the required user name and password are not sent in the clear.  The 
logging SMTP handler uses the smtplib module from the standard module to 
send mail and, when built properly, smtplib does support TLS.  However, 
the caller of smtplib does need to do some extra work in that case, i.e. 
it needs to call the server object's starttls method at the right point 
in the protocol handshaking. It's currently not done automatically in 
smtplib and, unfortunately, there is no code in the logging smtp handler 
to detect the need for and to call starttls (in response to a 
250-STARTTLS response to an EHLO).

To make this work, either the logging module or, perhaps better, the 
smptlib module needs to be smarter about this case.  I didn't see an 
open issue on the Python bug tracker about this; you might want to open 
one.  In the meantime, some options would be to find an SMTP mail host 
that doesn't require TLS.  Or write a custom logger.  Or on OS X it's 
not *too* difficult to set up a local host mailer using the 
Apple-supplied prefix that would accept mail locally and forward it to a 
more sophisticated remote mailer.

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org



From someone at example.com  Sat Aug 22 20:14:29 2009
From: someone at example.com (John W. Krahn)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 17:14:29 -0700
Subject: sed/awk/perl: How to replace all spaces each with an underscore
	that  occur before a specific string ?
In-Reply-To: <1380cb14-6462-4585-b2d1-c59c99ff9b56@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <1380cb14-6462-4585-b2d1-c59c99ff9b56@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

bolega wrote:
> sed/awk/perl:
> 
> How to replace all spaces each with an underscore that occur before a
> specific string ?
> 
> I really prefer a sed one liner.
> 
> Example
> Input :  This is my book. It is too  thick to read. The author gets
> little royalty but the publisher makes a lot.
> Output: This_is_my_book._It_is_too__thick_to read. The author gets
> little royalty but the publisher makes a lot.
> 
> We replaced all the spaces with underscores before the first occurence
> of the string "to ".

$ perl -le'
$x = "This is my book. It is too  thick to read. The author gets little 
royalty but the publisher makes a lot.";
print $x;
$x =~ /to / && substr( $x, 0, $-[0] ) =~ tr/ /_/;
print $x;
'
This is my book. It is too  thick to read. The author gets little 
royalty but the publisher makes a lot.
This_is_my_book._It_is_too__thick_to read. The author gets little 
royalty but the publisher makes a lot.




John
-- 
Those people who think they know everything are a great
annoyance to those of us who do.        -- Isaac Asimov


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Aug 22 20:45:18 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 01:45:18 +0100
Subject: sed/awk/perl: How to replace all spaces each with an underscore
	that  occur before a specific string ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <1380cb14-6462-4585-b2d1-c59c99ff9b56@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4A90911E.3000402@mrabarnett.plus.com>

John W. Krahn wrote:
> bolega wrote:
>> sed/awk/perl:
>>
>> How to replace all spaces each with an underscore that occur before a
>> specific string ?
>>
>> I really prefer a sed one liner.
>>
>> Example
>> Input :  This is my book. It is too  thick to read. The author gets
>> little royalty but the publisher makes a lot.
>> Output: This_is_my_book._It_is_too__thick_to read. The author gets
>> little royalty but the publisher makes a lot.
>>
>> We replaced all the spaces with underscores before the first occurence
>> of the string "to ".
> 
> $ perl -le'
> $x = "This is my book. It is too  thick to read. The author gets little 
> royalty but the publisher makes a lot.";
> print $x;
> $x =~ /to / && substr( $x, 0, $-[0] ) =~ tr/ /_/;
> print $x;
> '
> This is my book. It is too  thick to read. The author gets little 
> royalty but the publisher makes a lot.
> This_is_my_book._It_is_too__thick_to read. The author gets little 
> royalty but the publisher makes a lot.
> 
If you're interested in a Python regex solution:

s = "This is my book. It is too  thick to read. The author gets little 
royalty but the publisher makes a lot."
s = re.sub(".*?(?=to )", lambda m: m.group().replace(" ", "_"), s)



From countryone77 at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 22 20:45:52 2009
From: countryone77 at yahoo.com (Bev in TX)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 17:45:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: logging SMTPhandler Error
References: 
	 
	
Message-ID: <87236fb1-c09f-46e8-8492-514ba000c74a@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 22, 7:07?pm, Ned Deily  wrote:
>
> The problem here is that gmail, like most modern mail services, requires
> the use of an encrypted (SSL or TLS) connection for mail relaying so
> that the required user name and password are not sent in the clear. ?The
> logging SMTP handler uses the smtplib module from the standard module to
> send mail and, when built properly, smtplib does support TLS. ?However,
> the caller of smtplib does need to do some extra work in that case, i.e.
> it needs to call the server object's starttls method at the right point
> in the protocol handshaking. It's currently not done automatically in
> smtplib and, unfortunately, there is no code in the logging smtp handler
> to detect the need for and to call starttls (in response to a
> 250-STARTTLS response to an EHLO).
>
> To make this work, either the logging module or, perhaps better, the
> smptlib module needs to be smarter about this case. ?I didn't see an
> open issue on the Python bug tracker about this; you might want to open
> one. ?In the meantime, some options would be to find an SMTP mail host
> that doesn't require TLS. ?Or write a custom logger. ?Or on OS X it's
> not *too* difficult to set up a local host mailer using the
> Apple-supplied prefix that would accept mail locally and forward it to a
> more sophisticated remote mailer.
>
> --
> ?Ned Deily,
> ?n... at acm.org- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thanks for the excellent and informative response :-).  I'll
investigate further, as you suggested, now that I understand what is
happening.

Bev in TX


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Sat Aug 22 20:56:08 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 02:56:08 +0200
Subject: Items inheriting attributes from its container?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

23-08-2009 Kreso  wrote:

> I would like to create a list-like container class so that, additionally
> to usual list methods, I could attach attributes to the container  
> instances.
> However, I would like it so that the items contained in the particular
> instance of container somehow 'inherit' those attributes i.e.
>
> cont = Container()
> cont.color = 'blue'
> cont.append(item)
> print item.color
> 'blue'

[snip]

> class Player:
>     """Class for items"""
>
>     def __init__(self, playerdata, team):
>         self.data = playerdata
>         for key in team.__dict__:
>             setattr(self, key, team.__dict__[key])
>         return
>
>
> class Team(list):
>     """Class for containers"""
>    def __init__(self, teamdata, playerdata):
>         for key in teamdata:
>             setattr(self, key, teamdata[key])
>         for item in playerdata:
>             self.append(Player(item, self))
>         return
>
> lakersdata = {'name' : 'Lakers', 'kitcolor' : 'yellow'}
> lakersplayers = [['Kobe', 'PG', 12, 123], ['Kareem', 'FW', 23, 345]]
>
> lakers = Team(lakersdata, lakersplayers)

[snip]

> p1 = lakers[1]
> print p1.kitcolor

[snip]

> lakers.kitcolor = 'blue'
> print p1.kitcolor

[Not tested. I believe that the idea is clear]


   class RecruitmentError(ValueError):
       """Raised when a player cannot be recruited."""


   class Player(object):
       """A potential item of a Team() instance."""

       def __init__(self, playerdata, team=None):
           self.data = playerdata
           self.team = None
           if team:
               team.append(self)

       # (called when the usual attribute lookup didn't succeed)
       def __getattr__(self, name):
           return getattr(self.team, name)

       # ^ the last method may not be necessary -- you can always
       #   access to team data via 'team' attribute
       #   (and 'explicit is better than implicit')


   class Team(list):
       """A container for Player() instances."""

       def __init__(self, teamdata, playerdata=None):
           for key in teamdata:
               setattr(self, key, teamdata[key])
           for data in playerdata:
               self.append(Player(data))

       def _validate_and_get(self, index=None, player=None):
           if player is not None and not isinstance(player, Player):
               raise TypeError('A Player instance is required')
           if index is not None:
               if isinstance(index, slice):
                   raise TypeError('Slicing is not allowed')
               return self[index]  # (raise IndexError for bad index)

       _validate = _validate_and_get

       def _recruit(self, player):
           if player.team is None:
               player.team = self
           else:
               raise RecruitmentError('Player %s has already recruited')

       def _dismiss(self, player):
           player.team = None

       def __setitem__(self, index, player):
           current = self._validate_and_get(index, player)
           if player is not current:
               self._recruit(player)
               self._dismiss(current)
               list.__setitem__(self, index, player)

       def __delitem__(self, index):
           player = self._validate_and_get(index)
           self._dismiss(player)
           list.__delitem__(self, index)

       def append(self, player):
           self._validate(player=player)
           self._recruit(player)
           list.append(self, player)

       # and similarly:
       # * def extend...
       # * def insert...
       # * def pop...
       # * def remove...

...if you really need ordered container (reflecting functions/hierarchy
of players in a team?).

Otherwise, as Stephen noted, you should subclass set rather than list.

Cheers,
*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Sat Aug 22 21:08:37 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 03:08:37 +0200
Subject: Items inheriting attributes from its container?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

PS. Erratum:

>    class Team(list):
>        """A container for Player() instances."""
>
>        def __init__(self, teamdata, playerdata=None):

*** Here should be added: list.__init__(self) ***

>            for key in teamdata:
>                setattr(self, key, teamdata[key])
>            for data in playerdata:
>                self.append(Player(data))

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sat Aug 22 21:27:25 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 11:27:25 +1000
Subject: your favorite debugging tool?
References: 
Message-ID: <87vdkfiaki.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Esmail  writes:

> What is your favorite tool to help you debug your code?

A ?print? statement (or equivalent, like logging output).

> I've been getting along with 'print' statements but that is getting
> old and somewhat cumbersome.

Whenever a simple output statement is too cumbersome for debugging, I
take it as a sign that the program is too cumbersome to follow.

My debugging questions at that point are best taken to the unit test
suite: record the questions and the expected answers, so that in the
future anyone can get the benefit of them in a repeatable and automated
fashion.

-- 
 \             ?The power of accurate observation is frequently called |
  `\        cynicism by those who don't have it.? ?George Bernard Shaw |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From nad at acm.org  Sat Aug 22 22:05:51 2009
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 19:05:51 -0700
Subject: logging SMTPhandler Error
References: 
	
	
	<87236fb1-c09f-46e8-8492-514ba000c74a@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

In article 
<87236fb1-c09f-46e8-8492-514ba000c74a at 24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
 Bev in TX  wrote:
> On Aug 22, 7:07?pm, Ned Deily  wrote:
> > [...] Or on OS X it's
> > not *too* difficult to set up a local host mailer using the
> > Apple-supplied prefix that would accept mail locally and forward it to a
> > more sophisticated remote mailer.

Um, notation fail:  s/prefix/Postfix/

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org



From code at pizzashack.org  Sat Aug 22 23:19:01 2009
From: code at pizzashack.org (Derek Martin)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 22:19:01 -0500
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: <0018e1a0$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 
	<0018e1a0$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <20090823031901.GX20434@dragontoe.org>

On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 02:55:51AM +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> > I can see how 012 can
> > be confusing to new programmers, but at least it's legible, and the
> > great thing about humans is that they can be taught (usually).
> 
> And the great thing is that now you get to teach yourself to stop writing 
> octal numbers implicitly and be write them explicitly with a leading 0o 
> instead :)

Sorry, I don't write them implicitly.  A leading zero explicitly
states that the numeric constant that follows is octal.  It is so in 6
out of 7 computer languages I have more than a passing familiarity
with (the 7th being scheme, which is a thing unto itself), including
Python.  It's that way on Bourne-compatible and POSIX-compatible Unix
shells (though it requires a leading backslash before the leading zero
there).  I'm quite certain it can not be the case on only those 6
languages that I happen to be familiar with...

While it may be true that people commonly write decimal numbers with
leading zeros (I dispute even this, having to my recollection only
recently seen it as part of some serial number, which in practice is
really more of a string identifier than a number, often containing
characters other than numbers), it's also true that in the context of
computer programming languages, for the last 40+ years, a number
represented with a leading zero is most often an octal number.  This
has been true even in Python for nearly *twenty years*.  Why the
sudden need to change it?

So no, I don't get to teach myself to stop writing octal numbers with
a leading zero.  Instead, I have to remember an exception to the rule.

Also I don't think it's exactly uncommon for computer languages to do
things differently than they are done in non-CS circles.  A couple of
easy examples: we do not write x+=y except in computer languages.  The
POSIX system call to create a file is called creat().  If you think
about it, I'm sure you can come up with lots of examples where even
Python takes liberties.  Is this a bad thing?  Not inherently, no.
Will it be confusing to people who aren't familiar with the usage?
Quite possibly, but that is not inherently bad either.  It's all about
context.

> Use of octal isn't common. 

It's common enough.  Peruse the include files for your C libraries, or
the source for your operating system's kernel, or system libraries,
and I bet you'll find plenty of octal.  I did.  [Note that it is
irrelevant that these are C/C++ files; here we are only concerned with
whether they use octal, not how it is represented therein.]  I'd guess
there's a fair chance that any math or scientific software package
uses octal.  Octal is a convenient way to represent bit fields that
naturally occur in groups of 3, of which there are potentially
limitless cases.  

> You've given two cases were octal notation is useful, but for every
> coder who frequently writes umasks on Unix systems, there are a
> thousand who don't.

I gave two cases that I use *daily*, or very nearly daily.  My hats
currently include system admin, SQA, and software development, and I
find it convenient to use octal in each of those.  But those are
hardly the only places where octal is useful.  Have a look at the
ncurses library, for example.  Given that Python has an ncurses
interface, I'm guessing it's used there too.  In fact if the Python
source had no octal in it, I would find that very surprising.

> It's no hardship to write 0o12 instead of 012.

Computer languages are not write-only, excepting maybe Perl. ;-)
Writing 0o12 presents no hardship; but I assert, with at least some
support from others here, that *reading* it does.

-- 
Derek D. Martin
http://www.pizzashack.org/
GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D

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From code at pizzashack.org  Sat Aug 22 23:32:03 2009
From: code at pizzashack.org (Derek Martin)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 22:32:03 -0500
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <20090823033203.GY20434@dragontoe.org>

On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 04:23:57PM -0700, James Harris wrote:
> You misunderstand. I was saying that taking a leading zero as
> indicating octal is archaic. Octal itself is fine where appropriate.

I don't see that the leading zero is any more archaic than the use of
octal itself...  Both originate from around the same time period, and
are used in the same cases.  We should just prohibit octal entirely
then.

But I suppose it depends on which definition of "archaic" you use.  In
the other common sense of the word, the leading zero is no more
archaic than the C programming language.  Let's ban the use of all
three. :)  (I believe C is still the language in which the largest
number of lines of new code are written, but if not, it's way up
there.)
 
> The chmod command doesn't require a leading zero.

No, but it doesn't need any indicator that the number given to it is
in octal; in the case of the command line tool, octal is *required*,
and the argument is *text*.  However, the chmod() system call, and the
interfaces to it in every language I'm familiar with that has one, do
require the leading zero (because that's how you represent octal).
Including Python, for some 20 years or so.

-- 
Derek D. Martin
http://www.pizzashack.org/
GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D

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From cri at tiac.net  Sat Aug 22 23:38:59 2009
From: cri at tiac.net (Richard Harter)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 03:38:59 GMT
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal
	notation
References: 
	
	
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
Message-ID: <4a90b50e.154654859@text.giganews.com>

On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:54:41 -0700 (PDT), James Harris
 wrote:

>On 22 Aug, 10:27, David <71da... at libero.it> wrote:
>
>... (snipped a discussion on languages and other systems interpreting
>numbers with a leading zero as octal)
>
>> > Either hexadecimal should have been 0h or octal should
>> > have been 0t :=3D)
>>
>>
>> I have seen the use of Q/q instead in order to make it clearer. I still
>> prefer Smalltalk's 16rFF and 8r377.
>>
>>
>> Two interesting options. In a project I have on I have also considered
>> using 0q as indicating octal. I maybe saw it used once somewhere else
>> but I have no idea where. 0t was a second choice and 0c third choice
>> (the other letters of oct). 0o should NOT be used for obvious reasons.
>>
>> So you are saying that Smalltalk has r where
>> r is presumably for radix? That's maybe best of all. It preserves the
>> syntactic requirement of starting a number with a digit and seems to
>> have greatest flexibility. Not sure how good it looks but it's
>> certainly not bad.

I opine that a letter is better; special characters are a
valuable piece of real estate.  However for floating point you
need at least three letters because a floating point number has
three parts: the fixed point point, the exponent base, and the
exponent.  Now we can represent the radices of the individual
parts with the 'r'scheme, e.g., 2r101001, but we need separate
letters to designate the exponent base and the exponent.  B and E
are the obvious choices, though we want to be careful about a
confusion with 'b' in hex.  For example, using 'R',

3R20.1B2E16Rac

is 20.1 in trinary (6 1/3) times 2**172 (hex ac).

I grant that this example looks a bit gobbledegookish, but normal
usage would be much simpler.  The notation doesn't handle
balanced trinary; however I opine that balanced trinary requires
special notation.

   
Richard Harter, cri at tiac.net
http://home.tiac.net/~cri, http://www.varinoma.com
No one asks if a tree falls in the forest 
if there is no one there to see it fall.


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Aug 23 00:07:05 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 23 Aug 2009 04:07:05 GMT
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: 
	<87d46ok948.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
Message-ID: <02a0b085$0$30337$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:04:17 -0500, Derek Martin wrote:

>> These human programmers, whether newbies or long-experienced, also deal
>> with decimal numbers every day, many of which are presented as a
>> sequence of digits with leading zeros ? and we continue to think of
>> them as decimal numbers regardless. Having the language syntax opposed
>> to that is
>  
> ...consistent with virtually every other popular programming language.

A mistake is still a mistake even if it shared with others.

Treating its with a lead zero as octal was a design error when it was 
first thought up (possibly in C?) and it remains a design error no matter 
how many languages copy it. I feel your pain of having to unlearn 
something you have learned, but just because you have been lead astray by 
the languages you use doesn't mean we should compound the error by 
leading the next generation of coders astray too.

Octal is of little importance today, as near as I can tell it only has 
two common uses in high level languages: file umasks and permissions on 
Unix systems. It simply isn't special enough to justify implicit notation 
that surprises people, leads to silent errors, and is inconsistent with 
standard mathematical notation and treatment of floats:

>>> 123.2000 # insignificant trailing zeroes don't matter
123.2
>>> 000123.2 # neither do insignificant leading zeroes
123.2
>>> 001.23e0023  # not even if it is an integer
1.23e+23
>>> 000123  # but here is matters
83


-- 
Steven


From goldtech at worldpost.com  Sun Aug 23 00:47:52 2009
From: goldtech at worldpost.com (goldtech)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 21:47:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Idle does not recognize PYTHONPATH
Message-ID: <1eaa9d66-b1ff-4d2d-961f-ee40054a0953@r38g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

Idle does not recognize PYTHONPATH set in .bashrc. Starting Python
shell in the terminal sys.path shows the PYTHONPATH, but again not
shown in IDLE. This is a common problem but I could not find a fix.
Using Ubuntu 9.04. Python 2.6.

Thanks


From ak at nothere.com  Sun Aug 23 01:01:46 2009
From: ak at nothere.com (AK)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 01:01:46 -0400
Subject: How to 'de-slashify' a string?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4a8faa47$0$31283$607ed4bc@cv.net>	<00193b65$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<4a8fc3d1$0$22535$607ed4bc@cv.net>		<4a8fce05$0$31285$607ed4bc@cv.net>
	
Message-ID: <4a90cd3a$0$22525$607ed4bc@cv.net>

Vlastimil Brom wrote:
> 2009/8/22 AK :
>> Vlastimil Brom wrote:
>>> 2009/8/22 AK :
>>>> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 04:20:23 -0400, AK wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi, if I have a string '\\303\\266', how can I convert it to '\303\266'
>>>>>> in a general way?
>>>>> It's not clear what you mean.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you mean you have a string '\\303\\266', that is:
>>>>>
>>>>> backslash backslash three zero three backslash backslash two six six
>>>>>
>>>>> If so, then the simplest way is:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> s = r'\\303\\266'  # note the raw string
>>>>>>>> len(s)
>>>>> 10
>>>>>>>> print s
>>>>> \\303\\266
>>>>>>>> print s.replace('\\\\', '\\')
>>>>> \303\266
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Another possibility:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> s = '\\303\\266'  # this is not a raw string
>>>>>>>> len(s)
>>>>> 8
>>>>>>>> print s
>>>>> \303\266
>>>>>
>>>>> So s is:
>>>>> backslash three zero three backslash two six six
>>>>>
>>>>> and you don't need to do any more.
>>>> Well, I need the string itself to become '\303\266', not to print
>>>> that way. In other words, when I do 'print s', it should display
>>>> unicode characters if my term is set to show them, instead of
>>>> showing \303\266.
>>>>
>>>>>> The problem I'm running into is that I'm connecting with pygresql to a
>>>>>> postgres database and when I get fields that are of 'char' type, I get
>>>>>> them in unicode, but when I get fields of 'byte' type, I get the text
>>>>>> with quoted slashes, e.g. '\303' becomes '\\303' and so on.
>>>>> Is pygresql quoting the backslash, or do you just think it is quoting
>>>>> the
>>>>> backslashes? How do you know? E.g. if you have '\\303', what is the
>>>>> length
>>>>> of that? 4 or 5?
>>>> Length is 4, and I need it to be length of 1. E.g.:
>>>>
>>>>>>> s = '\303'
>>>>>>> s
>>>> '\xc3'
>>>>>>> x = '\\303'
>>>>>>> x
>>>> '\\303'
>>>>>>> len(x)
>>>> 4
>>>>>>> len(s)
>>>> 1
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What I get from pygresql is x, what I need is s. Either by asking
>>>> pygresql
>>>> to do this or convert it afterwards. I can't do replace('\\303', '\303')
>>>> because it can be any unicode character.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> AK
>>>> --
>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>> do you mean something like
>>>
>>>>>> u"\u0303"
>>> u'\u0303'
>>>>>> print u"\u0303"
>>> ?
>>>    ? (dec.: 771)  (hex.: 0x303)   ? COMBINING TILDE (Mark, Nonspacing)
>>> ?
>>>
>>> vbr
>> Yes, something like that except that it starts out as '\\303\\266', and it's
>> good enough for me if it turns into '\303\266', in fact that's rendered as
>> one unicode char. In other words, when you do:
>>
>>>>> print "\\303\\266"
>> '\303\266'
>>
>> I need that result to become a python string, i.e. the slashes need to
>> be converted from literal slashes to escape slashes.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> AK
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
> 
> Not sure, whether it is the right way of handling the such text data, but maybe:
> 
>>>> decoded = '\\303\\266'.decode("string_escape")
>>>> decoded
> '\xc3\xb6'
>>>> print decoded
> ??
>>>> print '\303\266'
> ??
> 
> It might be an IDLE issue, but it still isn't one unicode glyph.
> 
> I guess, you have to ensure, that the input data is valid and the
> right encoding is used.
> 
> hth
>   vbr

Actually, this works perfectly for me. It prints out as one character in
gnome-terminal and also when I write it to a text file, and open it as
utf-8 format in gnumeric, it also shows up properly.

Thanks to all who helped! -AK


From http  Sun Aug 23 01:27:57 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 22 Aug 2009 22:27:57 -0700
Subject: How to create functors?
References: 
	<7xab1vl0qf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
	<7xmy5uanlt.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
Message-ID: <7xljlbf6aq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Steven D'Aprano  writes:
> According to Wikipedia, functor can be used as a synonym for "function 
> object": ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Function_object

Hmm, I hadn't seen that usage before.  I guess there's no law against
it, but it seems a bit bogus to me.

> I find the Haskell page entirely opaque and unintelligible... The
> Wikipedia page is a little better

I thought it was the other way around, but I've been banging my head
against Haskell on and off for the past year or so, so it could be
that the Haskell page is more intelligible if the reader already has
some familiarity with Haskell and its type system.  

Here's another attempt of my own, from the mathematical perspective:
"categories" generalize the concept of structured collections of
objects.  For example, groups, rings, and sets are each a type of
structured collection, so there is a category of groups (called "Grp"
since for some reason categorists like to use capitalized, abbreviated
names), a category of rings ("Rng"), and a category of sets ("Set").
Each category has a collection of objects and a collection of "arrows"
(sometimes called morphisms) which are associative relations between
objects in the category.  So in the category of sets, the objects are
sets and the arrows are functions mapping one set to another.  In the
category of groups, the objects are groups and the arrows are the
homeomorphisms between groups.

Functors are mappings from one category to another, that map both the
objects and the arrows.  That is they are arrows on the categories of
categories.

The concepts of categories and functors came from the loftier reaches
of algebraic geometry (further in math than I ever got) in the 1950's
or so.  These days they turn out to be useful in studying type systems
of programming languages, which is where most of my exposure to them
has come from.

> But let me try an example to see if I've got it right:
> class Int2StrFunctor:
>     def map1(self, n):
>         if type(n) is not int:
>             raise TypeError('argument must be an int')

I don't think this is right.  A functor (in the PL sense that I've
been describing) acts on types, not on members of types.  That is,
your example turns "3" into "---", i.e. it turns a member of type
"int" into a member of type "str".  A functor would be something that
acts on arbitrary types, e.g. one might turn "int" into "array of
int", and "str" into "array of str" and so forth.  Another might turn
"int" into "red-black tree containing a pair of ints at each node" and
doing something similar with str.  The map1 and map2 functions (I
guess it is ok to call them that) are supposed to be generic.

I guess you could have a "String" functor whose map1 function is repr
and whose map2 functor is (lambda f: lambda x,f=f: repr(f(x))) or
something like that.  It would transport every type to the str type.

> There are some technical restrictions on functors, relating to the sorts 
> of functions and types (strictly "categories") they can accept, 
> presumably to make them mathematically well-behaved.

Right.


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Aug 23 01:48:34 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 22 Aug 2009 22:48:34 -0700
Subject: logging SMTPhandler Error
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
Ned Deily   wrote:
>
>Or on OS X it's not *too* difficult to set up a local host mailer using
>the Apple-supplied prefix that would accept mail locally and forward it
>to a more sophisticated remote mailer.

It's also not too difficult to do the moral equivalent with dnspython and
find the MX host for the domain you're trying to send e-mail to; that
usually does not require an encrypted connection.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I support family values -- Addams family values" --www.nancybuttons.com


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Aug 23 02:13:31 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 23 Aug 2009 06:13:31 GMT
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: 
	<0018e1a0$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <02a0ce27$0$30337$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 22:19:01 -0500, Derek Martin wrote:

> On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 02:55:51AM +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> > I can see how 012 can
>> > be confusing to new programmers, but at least it's legible, and the
>> > great thing about humans is that they can be taught (usually).
>> 
>> And the great thing is that now you get to teach yourself to stop
>> writing octal numbers implicitly and be write them explicitly with a
>> leading 0o instead :)
> 
> Sorry, I don't write them implicitly.  A leading zero explicitly states
> that the numeric constant that follows is octal.

That is incorrect.

Decimal numbers implicitly use base 10, because there's nothing in the 
literal 12340 (say) to indicate the base is ten, rather than 16 or 9 or 
23. Although implicit is usually bad, when it's as common and expected as 
decimal notation, it's acceptable.

Hex decimals explicitly use base 16, because the leading 0x is defined to 
mean "base 16". 0x is otherwise not a legal decimal number, or hex number 
for that matter. (It would be legal in base 34 or greater, but that's 
rare enough that we can ignore this.) For the bases we care about, a 
leading 0x can't have any other meaning -- there's no ambiguity, so we 
can treat it as a synonym for "base 16".

(Explicitness isn't a binary state, and it would be even more explicit if 
the base was stated in full, as in e.g. Ada where 16#FF# = decimal 255.)

However, octal numbers are defined implicitly: 012 is a legal base 10 
number, or base 3, or base 9, or base 16. There's nothing about a leading 
zero that says "base 8" apart from familiarity. We can see the difference 
between leading 0x and leading 0 if you repeat it: repeating an explicit 
0x, as in 0x0xFF, is a syntax error, while repeating an implicit 0 
silently does nothing different:

>>> 0x0xFF
  File "", line 1
    0x0xFF
         ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>>> 0077
63


> It is so in 6 out of 7
> computer languages I have more than a passing familiarity with (the 7th
> being scheme, which is a thing unto itself), including Python.  It's
> that way on Bourne-compatible and POSIX-compatible Unix shells (though
> it requires a leading backslash before the leading zero there).  I'm
> quite certain it can not be the case on only those 6 languages that I
> happen to be familiar with...

No, of course not. There are a bunch of languages, pretty much all 
heavily influenced by C, which treat integer literals with leading 0s as 
oct: C++, Javascript, Python 2.x, Ruby, Perl, Java. As so often is the 
case, C's design mistakes become common practice. Sigh.

However, there are many, many languages that don't, or otherwise do 
things differently to C. Even some modern C-derived languages reject the 
convention:

C# doesn't have octal literals at all.

As far as I can tell, Objective-C and Cocoa requires you to explicitly 
enable support for octal literals before you use them.

In D, at least some people want to follow Python's lead and either drop 
support for oct literals completely, or require a 0o prefix:
http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=2656

E makes a leading 0 a syntax error.


As far as other, non-C languages go, leading 0 = octal seems to be rare 
or non-existent:

Basic and VB use a leading &O for octal.

FORTRAN 90 uses a leading O (uppercase o) for octal, and surrounds the 
literal in quotation marks: O"12" would be ten in octal. 012 would be 
decimal 12.

As far as I can tell, COBOL also ignores leading zeroes.

Forth interprets literals according to the current value of BASE (which 
defaults to 10). There's no special syntax for it.To enter ten in octal, 
you might say:

8 BASE ! 12

or if your system provides it:

OCT 12

Standard Pascal ignores leading 0s in integers, and doesn't support octal 
at all. A leading $ is used for hex. At least one non-standard Pascal 
uses leading zero for octal.

Haskell requires an explicit 0o:
http://www.haskell.org/onlinereport/lexemes.html#lexemes-numeric

So does OCaml.

Ada uses decimal unless you explicitly give the base:
http://archive.adaic.com/standards/83lrm/html/lrm-02-04.html

Leading zeroes are insignificant in bc:

[steve at sylar ~]$ bc
bc 1.06
Copyright 1991-1994, 1997, 1998, 2000 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
This is free software with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY.
For details type `warranty'.
012 + 011
23

Leading zeroes are also insignificant in Hewlett-Packard RPN language 
(e.g. HP-48GX calculators), Hypertalk and languages derived from it.

I'm not sure, but it looks to me like Boo doesn't support octal literals, 
although it supports hex with 0x and binary with 0b.

Algol uses an explicit base: 8r12 to indicate octal 10.

Common Lisp and Scheme use a #o prefix.

As far as *languages* go, 0-based octal literals are in the tiny 
minority. As far as *programmers* go, it may be in a plurality, perhaps 
even a small minority, but remember there are still millions of VB 
programmers out there who are just as unfamiliar with C conventions.

> While it may be true that people commonly write decimal numbers with
> leading zeros (I dispute even this
[...]

Leading zeroes in decimal numbers are *very* common in dates and times.


[...]
> Given that Python has an ncurses interface, I'm
> guessing it's used there too.  In fact if the Python source had no octal
> in it, I would find that very surprising.

I can't see any oct literals in the standard library, not even in the 
ncurses interface, but then my grep-foo is weak and I may have made a 
mistake. I encourage you to look for yourself.


>> It's no hardship to write 0o12 instead of 012.
> 
> Computer languages are not write-only, excepting maybe Perl. ;-) Writing
> 0o12 presents no hardship; but I assert, with at least some support from
> others here, that *reading* it does.

No more so than 0x or 0b literals. If anything, 0o12 stands out as "not 
twelve" far more than 012 does.



-- 
Steven


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Sun Aug 23 03:10:22 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 09:10:22 +0200
Subject: Blank Line at Program Exit
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <200908230910.22246.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Thursday 20 August 2009 07:31:14 Steven Woody wrote:
> Hi,
> Any python program, even that does absolutely nothing in the code, will
> cause a blank line printed out when the program exit.  What's the reason?

not for me:

hvr at Linuxbox:~/Sasol/lib> cat blank.py

hvr at Linuxbox:~/Sasol/lib> python blank.py
hvr at Linuxbox:~/Sasol/lib>


- Hendrik



From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Sun Aug 23 03:21:54 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 09:21:54 +0200
Subject: your favorite debugging tool?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <200908230921.54199.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Saturday 22 August 2009 16:49:22 Aahz wrote:
> In article ,
>
> Esmail   wrote:
> >What is your favorite tool to help you debug your code? I've been
> >getting along with 'print' statements but that is getting old and
> >somewhat cumbersome.
>
> Despite the fact that I've been using Python for more than a decade,
> print is still my mainstay (or possibly logging to a file).

Same here, although I have not been abusing python for as long as Aahz has 
been using it.

I find that python pretty much does more or less what I expect it to, and 
where it does not, a print quickly gets me to RTFM when I have been rolling 
along under intuition.

And the final arbiter is of course the interactive prompt.

- Hendrik


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sun Aug 23 03:40:47 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 17:40:47 +1000
Subject: your favorite debugging tool?
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <873a7jhta8.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Hendrik van Rooyen  writes:

> And the final arbiter is of course the interactive prompt.

Oh yes, of course I forget to mention that!

Write your code so it can be imported, and write your functionality so
it has narrow interfaces, and you can do whatever inspection is needed
from the interactive prompt.

-- 
 \        ?We have to go forth and crush every world view that doesn't |
  `\                believe in tolerance and free speech.? ?David Brin |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 03:54:31 2009
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 00:54:31 -0700
Subject: your favorite debugging tool?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-22 07:25 AM, Esmail wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> What is your favorite tool to help you debug your
> code? I've been getting along with 'print' statements
> but that is getting old and somewhat cumbersome.
>
> I'm primarily interested in utilities for Linux (but
> if you have recommendations for Windows, I'll take
> them too :)
>
> I use emacs as my primary development environment, FWIW.
> Someone mentioned winpdb .. anyone have experience/comments
> on this? Others?

I am frequently in the IPython interactive prompt for testing out stuff and even 
as the main way of running my code. It has a nice feature that when you get a 
traceback, you can open up pdb post-mortem.

In [8]: def f(x):
    ...:     y = 1 / x
    ...:     return y
    ...:

In [9]: f(1)
Out[9]: 1

In [10]: f(0)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
ZeroDivisionError                         Traceback (most recent call last)

/Users/rkern/ in ()

/Users/rkern/ in f(x)

ZeroDivisionError: integer division or modulo by zero

In [11]: %debug
 > (2)f()

ipdb> print x
0


I have a little function that I've been using recently to print out the function 
I am currently in along with the arguments:


def whereami():
     """ Print the current function call.

     import kerntrace;kerntrace.whereami()
     """
     import inspect
     frame = inspect.currentframe(1)
     args, varargs, varkw, f_locals = inspect.getargvalues(frame)
     if args[:1] == ['self']:
         del args[0]
     print '%s%s' % (frame.f_code.co_name, inspect.formatargvalues(args, varargs,
         varkw, f_locals))


I think pdb is okay, but I am looking forward to pydbgr's completion.

   http://code.google.com/p/pydbgr/

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From sdementen at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 04:09:04 2009
From: sdementen at gmail.com (seb)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 01:09:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: conditional for-statement
Message-ID: 

Hi,

i was wondering if there is a syntax alike:

for i in range(10) if i > 5:
    print i

equivalent to

for i in (for i in range(10) if i>5):
    print i

sebastien


From benjamin at python.org  Sun Aug 23 04:12:40 2009
From: benjamin at python.org (Benjamin Peterson)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 08:12:40 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: conditional for-statement
References: 
Message-ID: 

seb  gmail.com> writes:

> 
> Hi,
> 
> i was wondering if there is a syntax alike:
> 
> for i in range(10) if i > 5:
>     print i

for i in range(10):
    if i > 5:
        print i






From bieffe62 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 04:12:52 2009
From: bieffe62 at gmail.com (Francesco Bochicchio)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 01:12:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: your favorite debugging tool?
References: 
Message-ID: <7694a678-fb08-4cd4-a1f7-de71e0a26cb2@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 22, 4:25?pm, Esmail  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> What is your favorite tool to help you debug your
> code? I've been getting along with 'print' statements
> but that is getting old and somewhat cumbersome.
>
> I'm primarily interested in utilities for Linux (but
> if you have recommendations for Windows, I'll take
> them too :)
>
> I use emacs as my primary development environment, FWIW.
> Someone mentioned winpdb .. anyone have experience/comments
> on this? Others?
>
> Thanks,
> Esmail

Although like the others I mostly use print statements, in a few
occasions I have found useful to resort to a full-blown debugger. Of
the ones I have used, the one provided by eclipse+pydev is the one I
liked most. The one in pywin32 IDE is basic but can be useful.
With emacs, one should be able to use pydb, but I never used that,
although emacs is my most used programming environment on most
platforms.

About print cumbersomeness, I agree. As I posted elsewhere, I'd like a
'trace mechanism' with the
following characteristics:
1. Can be enabled/disabled easily, and when it is dsabled it has no
runtime costs ( i.e. disabled 'trace' statements do not generate any
code)
2. Can be enabled/disabled on a class/function/method  base (e.g.
enable only the trace in a method ), to only get the trace output from
the code you are debugging
3. Make it easy to report the context (i.e. generate messages which
starts with 'class.method:', without
  hanving to hardcode class name and method name).

I know about the 'trace' and 'logging' modules, but neither seem to
satisfy the above requirements. Probably using python introspection
and metaprogramming features it is possible to do somethinmg that
covers at least 2 and 3. Not sure about one (using if __debug__ you
can reduce the runtime cost when
compiling in optimized mode, but probably not nullify it).

Ciao
-----
FB



From mailbox at dmitry-kazakov.de  Sun Aug 23 04:21:52 2009
From: mailbox at dmitry-kazakov.de (Dmitry A. Kazakov)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 10:21:52 +0200
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal
	notation
References: 
	
	
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
Message-ID: <1gl24ajxu6dsk.1btjdkwwj6m.dlg@40tude.net>

On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:54:41 -0700 (PDT), James Harris wrote:

> They look good - which is important. The trouble (for me) is that I
> want the notation for a new programming language and already use these
> characters. I have underscore as an optional separator for groups of
> digits - 123000 and 123_000 mean the same. The semicolon terminates a
> statement. Based on your second idea, though, maybe a colon could be
> used instead as in
> 
>   2:1011, 8:7621, 16:c26b
> 
> I don't (yet) use it as a range operator.
> 
> I could also use a hash sign as although I allow hash to begin
> comments it cannot be preceded by anything other than whitespace so
> these would be usable
> 
>   2#1011, 8#7621, 16#c26b
> 
> I have no idea why Ada which uses the # also apparently uses it to end
> a number
> 
>   2#1011#, 8#7621#, 16#c26b#

If you are going Unicode, you could use the mathematical notation, which is

   10112, 76218, c26b16

(subscript specification of the base). Yes, it might be difficult to type
(:-)), and would require some look-ahead in the parser. One of the
advantages of Ada notation, is that a numeric literal always starts with
decimal digit. That makes things simple for a descent recursive parser. I
guess this choice was intentional, back in 1983 a complex parser would eat
too much resources...

-- 
Regards,
Dmitry A. Kazakov
http://www.dmitry-kazakov.de


From bieffe62 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 04:30:16 2009
From: bieffe62 at gmail.com (Francesco Bochicchio)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 01:30:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: conditional for-statement
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 23, 10:09?am, seb  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> i was wondering if there is a syntax alike:
>
> for i in range(10) if i > 5:
> ? ? print i
>
> equivalent to
>
> for i in (for i in range(10) if i>5):
> ? ? print i
>
> sebastien

AFAIK, no syntax fo that. But the standard syntax is not too
different:

for i in range(0):
    if i > 5 : print i

Or you can use itertools.ifilter:

for i in itertools.ifilter( lambda x: x > 5, range(10) ):
     print i

Or, if you define a function corresponding to the loop body, you could
do something like:

map( print, (i for i in range(10) if i> 5 )) # only works if print is
a function



Ciao
----
FB





From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Sun Aug 23 05:09:20 2009
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (Bearophile)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 02:09:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References:  
	<0018e1a0$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	 
	<02a0ce27$0$30337$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <6b5ea596-d1e3-483d-ba79-7b139d3c7a47@z24g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

MRAB:

>'_': what if in the future we want to allow them in numbers for clarity?

Hettinger says it's hard (= requires too many changes) to do that and
Python programs don't have big integer constants often enough, so
probably that improvement will not see the light.

In the meantime in a Python program of mine I have put a small bug,
writing 1000000 instead of 10000000. Now in Python I write
10*1000*1000, because I try to learn from my bugs. In D I enjoy
writing 10_000_000.

-------------------------------

Steven D'Aprano:

> In D, at least some people want to follow Python's lead and either drop
> support for oct literals completely, or require a 0o prefix:http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=2656

Yes, people in the D community are trying to improve things, but it's
a slow and painful process, and often it goes nowhere. There's lot of
politics.

Bye,
bearophile


From harald.luessen at gmx.de  Sun Aug 23 05:12:43 2009
From: harald.luessen at gmx.de (Harald Luessen)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 11:12:43 +0200
Subject: IDLE file saving problem
References: <70222640-1990-4fae-bbca-8451d252a1ab@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <9d12959olkh5l3oamr9lfhedcrqd5nt7v7@4ax.com>

On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:48:56 -0700 (PDT), r  wrote:

>On Aug 21, 4:10?pm, MRAB  wrote:
>
>Yes, and much more needs improvement! I have made many changes already
>and i am polishing an "IDLE 3000" for the good people of Pythonia,
>stay tuned more to come....

There is a small little detail that nags me when I use IDLE:

When the cursor is somewhere in the white space at the
beginning of the lines and I use Ctrl-rightArrow  [ctrl]-[->]
to go to the first word in the line then IDLE skips
the position with the first non-whitespace letter and places
the cursor after the first word in the line.
This is not consistent because moving backwards works. [ctrl]-[<-]
Similar things happen at the end of a line.

I suggest that these movements should consider 'before the first' 
and 'after the last' text in the line as stop positions.

I think other editors do that, at least MS Visual Studio.

(The [pos1] alternating between first column and first text in line
does not help much.)

Harald



From 71david at libero.it  Sun Aug 23 05:50:30 2009
From: 71david at libero.it (David)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 11:50:30 +0200
Subject: conditional for-statement
References: 
Message-ID: 

Il Sun, 23 Aug 2009 01:09:04 -0700 (PDT), seb ha scritto:

> Hi,
> 
> i was wondering if there is a syntax alike:
> 
> for i in range(10) if i > 5:
>     print i

You can write

for i in filter(lambda i: i > 5, range(10)):
    print i

but 

for i in range(10):
    if i > 5:
        print i

it' better readable, and

for i in range(6,10):
    print i

it's event better.


From garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk  Sun Aug 23 06:08:43 2009
From: garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk (garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 10:08:43 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal
	notation
References: 
	
	
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
Message-ID: 

In comp.lang.python James Harris  wrote:
> On 22 Aug, 10:27, David <71da... at libero.it> wrote:

... 
>>
>> What about 2_1011, 8_7621, 16_c26h or 2;1011, 8;7621, 16;c26h ?
> 
> They look good - which is important. The trouble (for me) is that I
> want the notation for a new programming language and already use these
> characters. I have underscore as an optional separator for groups of
> digits - 123000 and 123_000 mean the same.

Why not just use the space? 123 000 looks better than 123_000, and 
is not syntactically ambiguous (at least in python). And as it
already works for string literals, it could be applied to numbers, too?

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------
| Radovan Garab?k http://kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk/~garabik/ |
| __..--^^^--..__    garabik @ kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk     |
 -----------------------------------------------------------
Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus.
Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!


From nmm1 at cam.ac.uk  Sun Aug 23 06:35:10 2009
From: nmm1 at cam.ac.uk (nmm1 at cam.ac.uk)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 11:35:10 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
Message-ID: 


I am interested in surveying people who want to interoperate between
Fortran and Python to find out what they would like to be able to do
more conveniently, especially with regard to types not supported for C
interoperability by the current Fortran standard.  Any suggestions as to
other ways that I could survey such people (Usenet is no longer as
ubiquitous as it used to be) would be welcomed.

My Email address is real, so direct messages will be received.

Specifically, I should like to know the answers to the following
questions:

    1) Do you want to use character strings of arbitrary length?

    2) Do you want to use Python classes with list members, where the
length of the list is not necessarily fixed for all instances of the
class?  Or, equivalently, Fortran derived types containing allocatable
or pointer arrays?

    2) Do you want to use Fortran derived types or Python classes that
contain type-bound procedures (including finalizers)?  Please answer
"yes" whether or nor you would like to call those type-bound procedures
from the other language.

    4) Do you want to call functions where the called language allocates
or deallocates arrays/lists/strings for use by the calling language?
Note that this is specifically Fortran->Python and Python->Fortran.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.


From countryone77 at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 23 06:57:49 2009
From: countryone77 at yahoo.com (Bev in TX)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 03:57:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: logging SMTPhandler Error
References: 
	 
	
	
Message-ID: <60de8d40-61f4-4ffd-bcef-749bf06675d0@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 23, 12:48?am, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
> It's also not too difficult to do the moral equivalent with dnspython and
> find the MX host for the domain you're trying to send e-mail to; that
> usually does not require an encrypted connection.
> --
> Aahz (a... at pythoncraft.com) ? ? ? ? ? <*> ? ? ? ?http://www.pythoncraft.com/
>
> "I support family values -- Addams family values" --www.nancybuttons.com

Thanks :-).  I'm not sure that I understand exactly what needs to be
done, but I'll read the documentation and see what I can come up with.

Bev in TX


From sp.bylc at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 07:26:35 2009
From: sp.bylc at gmail.com (newbie)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 04:26:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is Python what I need?
Message-ID: <224ed882-b78e-4b75-afa8-35c907096469@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

Hi all
I'm interested in developing computer based, interactive programs for
students in a special school who have an aversion to pen and paper.
I've searched the net to find ready made software that will meet my
needs but it is either written to a level much higher than these
students can cope with or priced beyond our school budget. I came
across a blog of someone singing the praises of Python. My question is
therefore aimed at those that know what they are talking about (ie
users in this group). Is Python the language I need to learn to
develop these programs?


From contact at xavierho.com  Sun Aug 23 07:42:30 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:42:30 +1000
Subject: Is Python what I need?
In-Reply-To: <224ed882-b78e-4b75-afa8-35c907096469@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
References: <224ed882-b78e-4b75-afa8-35c907096469@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908230442r32088956gb504b0149d2808a7@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 9:26 PM, newbie  wrote:

> Hi all
> I'm interested in developing computer based, interactive programs for
> students in a special school who have an aversion to pen and paper.


What sort of interactive program? Would it be educational, for example?


> I've searched the net to find ready made software that will meet my
> needs but it is either written to a level much higher than these
> students can cope with or priced beyond our school budget.


Could you give us the details of which software you've encountered that were
either too expensive or did not meet your needs?


> I came across a blog of someone singing the praises of Python. My question
> is
> therefore aimed at those that know what they are talking about (ie
> users in this group). Is Python the language I need to learn to
> develop these programs?


Any language can do the job. What a program does depends on the design, and
specification. Different languages simply have different behaviours, and
perhaps platform dependence and requirements. So, in some way, yes, Python
can do what you need, but you need to tell us in exact details what you were
really looking for.

Good luck,
Xav
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From 71david at libero.it  Sun Aug 23 08:01:41 2009
From: 71david at libero.it (David)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 14:01:41 +0200
Subject: your favorite debugging tool?
References: 
Message-ID: <142n6tb9nof0p$.1f2kw0c0vhj8u.dlg@40tude.net>

Il Sat, 22 Aug 2009 10:25:37 -0400, Esmail ha scritto:

> 
> I use emacs as my primary development environment, FWIW.
> Someone mentioned winpdb .. anyone have experience/comments
> on this? Others?

I use Winpdb on Windows and I feel quite comfortable. The interface is not
so clever as more advanced (and expensive, winpdb is free) debuggers but
there is all yuo need for deep-source debugging. 
It is especially suited for multi threaded programs and GUI debugging, where
command line debugging is a pain.
It supports remote debugging over encrypted connection also.

regards
David


From pengyu.ut at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 08:37:24 2009
From: pengyu.ut at gmail.com (Peng Yu)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 05:37:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Combining python and perl
Message-ID: <743337bf-487f-434d-b15c-4b675b6487f4@d21g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

According to http://www.python.org/doc/essays/comparisons.html, it
says

"Python and Perl come from a similar background (Unix scripting, which
both have long outgrown), and sport many similar features, but have a
different philosophy. Perl emphasizes support for common application-
oriented tasks, e.g. by having built-in regular expressions, file
scanning and report generating features. Python emphasizes support for
common programming methodologies such as data structure design and
object-oriented programming, and encourages programmers to write
readable (and thus maintainable) code by providing an elegant but not
overly cryptic notation. As a consequence, Python comes close to Perl
but rarely beats it in its original application domain; however Python
has an applicability well beyond Perl's niche."

My question is that how to combine both python and perl to take
advantages of both their strong aspects. Of course, I want to
primarily use python---that is why I send this message to this group.

I see a module 'perlmodule'. But I would like to know whether there
are other tips besides using 'perlmodule' to take perl's advantage in
python.

Regards,
Peng


From marduk at letterboxes.org  Sun Aug 23 09:00:00 2009
From: marduk at letterboxes.org (Albert Hopkins)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 09:00:00 -0400
Subject: Combining python and perl
In-Reply-To: <743337bf-487f-434d-b15c-4b675b6487f4@d21g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
References: <743337bf-487f-434d-b15c-4b675b6487f4@d21g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1251032400.19411.17.camel@centar.nbk>

On Sun, 2009-08-23 at 05:37 -0700, Peng Yu wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> According to http://www.python.org/doc/essays/comparisons.html, it
> says
> 
> "Python and Perl come from a similar background (Unix scripting, which
> both have long outgrown), and sport many similar features, but have a
> different philosophy. Perl emphasizes support for common application-
> oriented tasks, e.g. by having built-in regular expressions, file
> scanning and report generating features. Python emphasizes support for
> common programming methodologies such as data structure design and
> object-oriented programming, and encourages programmers to write
> readable (and thus maintainable) code by providing an elegant but not
> overly cryptic notation. As a consequence, Python comes close to Perl
> but rarely beats it in its original application domain; however Python
> has an applicability well beyond Perl's niche."
> 
> My question is that how to combine both python and perl to take
> advantages of both their strong aspects. Of course, I want to
> primarily use python---that is why I send this message to this group.

I'm not sure why you'd want to "combine" them.  You can pretty much do
the same things with both language, it's just that one may emphasize one
thing or make it easier for the user than the other.  For example,
regular expressions in Perl.  It's built into the language, but that
doesn't mean Python doesn't have regular expressions, just that Python
is less "centered" around them.  If you want to use regular expressions
with Python just "import re".

-a




From motoom at xs4all.nl  Sun Aug 23 09:05:51 2009
From: motoom at xs4all.nl (Michiel Overtoom)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 15:05:51 +0200
Subject: your favorite debugging tool?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A913EAF.8050703@xs4all.nl>

Esmail wrote:

> What is your favorite tool to help you debug your
> code? 

import pdb
pdb.set_trace()

pdb has commands to inspect code, variables, set breakpoints, watches, 
walk up and down stack frames, single-step through the program, run the 
rest of the function, run until return, etc...

http://www.ferg.org/papers/debugging_in_python.html

http://onlamp.com/pub/a/python/2005/09/01/debugger.html

http://plone.org/documentation/how-to/using-pdb

http://docs.python.org/library/pdb.html

Greetings,

-- 
"The ability of the OSS process to collect and harness
the collective IQ of thousands of individuals across
the Internet is simply amazing." - Vinod Valloppillil
http://www.catb.org/~esr/halloween/halloween4.html


From narkewoody at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 09:07:53 2009
From: narkewoody at gmail.com (Steven Woody)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:07:53 +0800
Subject: Blank Line at Program Exit
In-Reply-To: <20090822152515.GC10584@sevilla.sacredchaos.com>
References: 
	<20090822152515.GC10584@sevilla.sacredchaos.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 11:25 PM, Nitebirdz wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 01:31:14PM +0800, Steven Woody wrote:
> > Hi,
> > Any python program, even that does absolutely nothing in the code, will
> > cause a blank line printed out when the program exit.  What's the reason?
> >  Thanks.
> >
>
> Chances are it is related to whichever operating system and/or shell you
> are using.  For instance, this is taken from a system running Ubuntu
> Linux 8.04:
>
> -------------------------------------------------
> laptop:$ cat hello.py
> #!/usr/bin/env python
>
> print "Hello, there!"
> laptop:$ ./hello.py
> Hello, there!
> laptop:$ cat nothing.py
> #!/usr/bin/env python
>
> laptop:$ ./nothing.py
> laptop:$
> -------------------------------------------------
>
>
> As you can see, no blank line was printed out.
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

Hi,
I am using cywin on XP.

-- 
Life is the only flaw in an otherwise perfect nonexistence
   -- Schopenhauer

narke
public key at http://subkeys.pgp.net:11371 (narkewoody at gmail.com)
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From visionat at mail.infochan.com  Sun Aug 23 09:08:52 2009
From: visionat at mail.infochan.com (viper-2)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 06:08:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
Message-ID: <1f39d176-28e4-4e4f-a4d1-b3168349510b@34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 23, 6:35 am, n... at cam.ac.uk wrote:
> I am interested in surveying people who want to interoperate between
> Fortran and Python to find out what they would like to be able to do
> more conveniently, especially with regard to types not supported for C
> interoperability by the current Fortran standard.  

Python is still on my "to do" list, but I know I'll be interested in
the following:

>     1) Do you want to use character strings of arbitrary length?
>

Yes

>     2) Do you want to use Python classes with list members, where the
> length of the list is not necessarily fixed for all instances of the
> class?  Or, equivalently, Fortran derived types containing allocatable
> or pointer arrays?
>

Yes

>     2) Do you want to use Fortran derived types or Python classes that
> contain type-bound procedures (including finalizers)?  Please answer
> "yes" whether or nor you would like to call those type-bound procedures
> from the other language.
>

Don't know yet

>     4) Do you want to call functions where the called language allocates
> or deallocates arrays/lists/strings for use by the calling language?
> Note that this is specifically Fortran->Python and Python->Fortran.
>

Yes

agt


--
Freedom - no pane, all gaiGN!

Code Art Now
http://codeartnow.com
Email: agt at codeartnow.com



From narkewoody at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 09:09:24 2009
From: narkewoody at gmail.com (Steven Woody)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:09:24 +0800
Subject: How to distribute an application
Message-ID: 

Hi,
My application contains a main python source file as well as a set of
modules (also .py files).  Now, I am considering distribute my application
to others. But the distutils seems made for distributing packages not for
main applications.  Am I right?  Thanks.


-- 
Life is the only flaw in an otherwise perfect nonexistence
   -- Schopenhauer

narke
public key at http://subkeys.pgp.net:11371 (narkewoody at gmail.com)
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From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Aug 23 09:11:05 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 23 Aug 2009 06:11:05 -0700
Subject: Dictionary from a list
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
EK   wrote:
>On Aug 20, 2:10=A0pm, Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
>> 
>> >>> from itertools import izip
>> >>> it =3D iter([1,2,3,4,5,6])
>> >>> dict(izip(it, it))
>>
>> {1: 2, 3: 4, 5: 6}
>
>dict(zip(*[iter(l)]*2))

No, that's not a good solution.  For starters, it's less readable than
Peter's version.  More importantly, it has poor memory use because it
needs to construct both the intermediate tuple and the zip() list.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I support family values -- Addams family values" --www.nancybuttons.com


From matthew at woodcraft.me.uk  Sun Aug 23 09:13:32 2009
From: matthew at woodcraft.me.uk (Matthew Woodcraft)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 13:13:32 GMT
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: 
	<0018e1a0$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<20090823031901.GX20434@dragontoe.org>
	
Message-ID: <87fxbifzb7.fsf@golux.woodcraft.me.uk>

Dennis Lee Bieber  writes:
> 	About the only place one commonly sees leading zeros on decimal
> numbers, in my experience, is zero-filled COBOL data decks (and since
> classic COBOL stores in BCD anyway... binary (usage is
> computational/comp-1) was a later add-on to the data specification model
> as I recall...)

A more common case is dates.

I've seen people trip over this writing things like

xxx = [
    date(2009, 10, 12),
    date(2009, 12, 26),
    date(2010, 02, 09),
]

-M-


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Aug 23 09:14:00 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 23 Aug 2009 06:14:00 -0700
Subject: logging SMTPhandler Error
References: 
	
	
	<60de8d40-61f4-4ffd-bcef-749bf06675d0@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

In article <60de8d40-61f4-4ffd-bcef-749bf06675d0 at k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
Bev in TX   wrote:
>On Aug 23, 12:48=A0am, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
>>
>> It's also not too difficult to do the moral equivalent with dnspython and
>> find the MX host for the domain you're trying to send e-mail to; that
>> usually does not require an encrypted connection.
>
>Thanks :-).  I'm not sure that I understand exactly what needs to be
>done, but I'll read the documentation and see what I can come up with.

Slightly expanded: most mail servers accept connections from any other
mail server for addresses that are hosted by them.  The MX address for a
domain tells you what mail server hosts that address.  By connecting
directly to the MX, your script is essentially acting as a mail server
itself.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I support family values -- Addams family values" --www.nancybuttons.com


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sun Aug 23 10:01:46 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 00:01:46 +1000
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal
	notation
References: 
	
	
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
Message-ID: <87ljlahbn9.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk writes:

> Why not just use the space? 123 000 looks better than 123_000, and is
> not syntactically ambiguous (at least in python). And as it already
> works for string literals, it could be applied to numbers, too?

+1 to all this. I think this discussion was had many months ago, but
can't recall how it ended back then.

-- 
 \              ?Only the educated are free.? ?Epictetus, _Discourses_ |
  `\                                                                   |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Sun Aug 23 10:21:27 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 16:21:27 +0200
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4a915067$0$31339$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>

nmm1 at cam.ac.uk wrote:
> I am interested in surveying people who want to interoperate between
> Fortran and Python to find out what they would like to be able to do
> more conveniently, especially with regard to types not supported for C
> interoperability by the current Fortran standard.  Any suggestions as to
> other ways that I could survey such people (Usenet is no longer as
> ubiquitous as it used to be) would be welcomed.

You might want to ask also on the Cython, NumPy and SciPy mailing lists.
NumPy and SciPy have a rather large audience of scientific developers, and
Cython has a running sub-project on providing better Fortran integration
(which might be of interest to you anyway).

Stefan


From jcd at sdf.lonestar.org  Sun Aug 23 10:35:22 2009
From: jcd at sdf.lonestar.org (J. Cliff Dyer)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 10:35:22 -0400
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal
	notation
In-Reply-To: <87ljlahbn9.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: 
	
	
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	  <87ljlahbn9.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <1251038122.7067.29.camel@webb>

I had an objection to using spaces in numeric literals last time around
and it still stands, and it still stands in the new one.

What happens if you use a literal like 0x10f 304?  Is 304 treated as
decimal or hexadecimal?  It's not clear how you would begin to combine
it   The way string concatenation works, it takes two independent string
literals, and combines them.  If you specify r'\n' 'abc\n', the first
half is treated independently as a raw string, and the second half is
treated as a normal string.  The result is '\\nabc\n'.

With numeric literals, this behavior doesn't even make sense.  How do
you concatenate hex 10f with decimal 304?  I suppose you could multiply
0x10f by 1000, and add them, but this probably wouldn't fit any
practical usecase.  

Alternatively, you could raise an exception, and require the user to use
numeric literals of the same type, like 0x10f 0x304, but then you lose
any readability benefit you might have gained by dropping the _ to begin
with.  

If, on the other hand, you want to combine the tokens before processing
their independent meanings, which makes the most intuitive sense, well,
in that case we're no longer talking about an operation analogous to
string contcatenation.  We're talking about integers no longer being
simple tokens that can be assigned a value.  I'm not familiar with the
code that makes all this happen in C Python (or any other implementation
for that matter), but it seems like it extends the complexity of the
parser unnecessarily. 

I'm concerned that the benefit in readability will be outweighed by the
burden it places on the parser, and the cognitive burden on the
programmer of knowing what to expect when using non-decimal numeric
literals.  For that reason, I'm a -1 on using a space in numeric
literals, but +1 on using some other separator, and an _, in spite of
its slight awkwardness in typing, seems like a good idea.

If someone with a solid understanding of the python parser could chime
in that this wouldn't cause as much friction as I think, and explain a
clean, elegant implementation for this, many of my concerns would be
alleviated, and I would change my -1 to a -0.

Cheers,
Cliff


On Mon, 2009-08-24 at 00:01 +1000, Ben Finney wrote:
> garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk writes:

> > Why not just use the space? 123 000 looks better than 123_000, and is
> > not syntactically ambiguous (at least in python). And as it already
> > works for string literals, it could be applied to numbers, too?
> 
> +1 to all this. I think this discussion was had many months ago, but
> can't recall how it ended back then.
> 
> -- 
>  \              ?Only the educated are free.? ?Epictetus, _Discourses_ |
>   `\                                                                   |
> _o__)                                                                  |
> Ben Finney



From ryniek90 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 10:39:42 2009
From: ryniek90 at gmail.com (Ryniek90)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 16:39:42 +0200
Subject: IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename:  in windows
	xp while making tarfile
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A9154AE.1000609@gmail.com>

Hi
I've got my backup script which opens tarfile for add chosen file to it. 
But while setting it up, i've got Traceback:
here's the url: -->http://paste.ubuntu.com/258081/<--

I have searched among google's result but didn't found anything useful. 
Only found info that it may be the backslashes fault in path, but i have 
written proper the path.

Here's link to my script paste: http://paste.ubuntu.com/258087/

Is its the '|\U' literal fault in path '|C:\\Users\\Ryniek's 
WinSe7en\\MyNewGGBackup(2009-08-23 14:59:02).tar.bz2|' ?

Sorry if i'm annoying but i'm still learning.
|


From phillip.oldham at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 11:02:34 2009
From: phillip.oldham at gmail.com (Phillip B Oldham)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 08:02:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Most "active" coroutine library project?
Message-ID: <64183b73-9cb0-4ce1-98d0-f47e13a818e4@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

I've been taking a look at the multitude of coroutine libraries
available for Python, but from the looks of the projects they all seem
to be rather "quiet". I'd like to pick one up to use on a current
project but can't deduce which is the most popular/has the largest
community.

Libraries I looked at include: cogen, weightless, eventlet and
circuits (which isn't exactly coroutine-based but it's event-driven
model was intriguing).

Firstly, are there any others I've missed? And what would the
consensus be on the which has the most active community behind it?


From victorsubervi at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 11:04:57 2009
From: victorsubervi at gmail.com (Victor Subervi)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 10:04:57 -0500
Subject: Trying To Catch Invalid User Input
Message-ID: <4dc0cfea0908230804o29a328ecmdb99af2ef790f5ac@mail.gmail.com>

Hi;
I have the following:

style = raw_input('What style is this? (1 = short, 2 = long): ')
flag = 0
while flag == 0:
  if (style != 1) or (style != 2):
    style = raw_input('There was a mistake. What style is this? (1 = short,
2 = long): ')
  else:
    flag = 1

I would think this would catch errors and permit valid values, but it
doesn't. If I enter an erroneous value the first time, and the second time a
good value, it doesn't break the loop. Why?
TIA,
Victor
-------------- next part --------------
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From doctoresam at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 11:12:26 2009
From: doctoresam at gmail.com (Deep_Feelings)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 08:12:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: can python make web applications?
Message-ID: 

can python make powerfull database web applications that can replace
desktop database applications? e.g: entrprise accounting
programs,enterprise human resource management programs ...etc


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Sun Aug 23 11:17:56 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 08:17:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
Message-ID: <1032c78d-d4dd-41c0-a877-b85ca000d871@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On 23 Aug, 12:35, n... at cam.ac.uk wrote:

> I am interested in surveying people who want to interoperate between
> Fortran and Python to find out what they would like to be able to do
> more conveniently, especially with regard to types not supported for C
> interoperability by the current Fortran standard. ?Any suggestions as to
> other ways that I could survey such people (Usenet is no longer as
> ubiquitous as it used to be) would be welcomed.

I think you will find that 99.9% of Python and Fortran programmers are
scientists and engineers that also use NumPy and f2py. Go to scipy.org
and ask your question on the numpy mailing list.

Regards,
Sturla Molden





From __peter__ at web.de  Sun Aug 23 11:31:47 2009
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 17:31:47 +0200
Subject: Is Python what I need?
References: <224ed882-b78e-4b75-afa8-35c907096469@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

newbie wrote:

> I'm interested in developing computer based, interactive programs for
> students in a special school who have an aversion to pen and paper.
> I've searched the net to find ready made software that will meet my
> needs but it is either written to a level much higher than these
> students can cope with or priced beyond our school budget. I came
> across a blog of someone singing the praises of Python. My question is
> therefore aimed at those that know what they are talking about (ie
> users in this group). Is Python the language I need to learn to
> develop these programs?

>From the distance it looks like these children need a good teacher rather 
than a bad (or just starting) programmer. They need goals they can 
understand and share, not yet another tool.

But it's interactive? Yeah, three canned answers instead of just one...

That said, Python is a good language for the casual developer. You can whack 
together something pretty quickly. It may not be perfect, but you don't 
waste time on administrative overhead either.

Peter



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sun Aug 23 11:36:10 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 16:36:10 +0100
Subject: Trying To Catch Invalid User Input
In-Reply-To: <4dc0cfea0908230804o29a328ecmdb99af2ef790f5ac@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4dc0cfea0908230804o29a328ecmdb99af2ef790f5ac@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A9161EA.5050602@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Victor Subervi wrote:
> Hi;
> I have the following:
> 
> style = raw_input('What style is this? (1 = short, 2 = long): ')
> flag = 0
> while flag == 0:
>   if (style != 1) or (style != 2):
>     style = raw_input('There was a mistake. What style is this? (1 = 
> short, 2 = long): ')
>   else:
>     flag = 1
> 
> I would think this would catch errors and permit valid values, but it 
> doesn't. If I enter an erroneous value the first time, and the second 
> time a good value, it doesn't break the loop. Why?
> 
This is wrong:

     (style != 1) or (style != 2)

For example, if style is 1 (which should be a valid value):

     (style != 1) or (style != 2)
  => (1     != 1) or (1     != 2)
  => False        or True
  => True

What you mean is:

     (style != 1) and (style != 2)


From rtomek at ceti.com.pl  Sun Aug 23 11:36:32 2009
From: rtomek at ceti.com.pl (Tomasz Rola)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 17:36:32 +0200
Subject: Is Python what I need?
In-Reply-To: <224ed882-b78e-4b75-afa8-35c907096469@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
References: <224ed882-b78e-4b75-afa8-35c907096469@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 23 Aug 2009, newbie wrote:

> Hi all
> I'm interested in developing computer based, interactive programs for
> students in a special school who have an aversion to pen and paper.
> I've searched the net to find ready made software that will meet my
> needs but it is either written to a level much higher than these
> students can cope with or priced beyond our school budget. I came
> across a blog of someone singing the praises of Python. My question is
> therefore aimed at those that know what they are talking about (ie
> users in this group). Is Python the language I need to learn to
> develop these programs?

Perhaps, maybe, yes.

Python has simple syntax and it can be grasped quite fast. It is also 
quite easy IMHO to go from easy interactive, calculator-like stuff to 
bigger things. It also has quite big library of specialized functions, to 
be used in bigger programs.

So if this is what you are looking for, it seems you are in the right 
place.

You may also have a look at Squeak. It is an implementation of Smalltalk 
language. As far as I can tell, it is targeted for kid users or young 
students, who are interested in programming.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smalltalk
http://www.squeak.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squeak

Or, I mean, Smalltalk is a general purpose language, just as Python. It is 
not a "kid language". Squeak, however, seems to be a bit easier for new 
users. After tinkering with it a little, I think it has few batteries not 
only included (like Python has) but connected to few toys as well. This 
makes it more playable than Python after unpacking the box.

Wrt languages, their "goodness" or differences between them - I am pretty 
much sure a number of people will start pointing them out to you. But I 
don't think this is really that much important. All languages are more or 
less similar because they serve the same purpose. Just try and do not use 
(Visual) Basic :-) and you should be ok. Well, maybe this is just me, but 
I consider VB to be a dead-end. Besides, if this is going to be "let's 
show them how interesting it is", you should stay away from languages more 
complicated, like Java. Those who are going to learn Java, will learn it 
anyway. Knowing something different and cool first should not kill them. 
Quite the contrary, it can be an eye opener.

Regards
Tomasz Rola

--
** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature.      **
** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home    **
** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened...      **
**                                                                 **
** Tomasz Rola          mailto:tomasz_rola at bigfoot.com             **


From gherron at islandtraining.com  Sun Aug 23 11:37:26 2009
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 08:37:26 -0700
Subject: Trying To Catch Invalid User Input
In-Reply-To: <4dc0cfea0908230804o29a328ecmdb99af2ef790f5ac@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4dc0cfea0908230804o29a328ecmdb99af2ef790f5ac@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A916236.6070007@islandtraining.com>

Victor Subervi wrote:
> Hi;
> I have the following:
>
> style = raw_input('What style is this? (1 = short, 2 = long): ')
> flag = 0
> while flag == 0:
>   if (style != 1) or (style != 2):
>     style = raw_input('There was a mistake. What style is this? (1 = 
> short, 2 = long): ')
>   else:
>     flag = 1
>
> I would think this would catch errors and permit valid values, but it 
> doesn't. If I enter an erroneous value the first time, and the second 
> time a good value, it doesn't break the loop. Why?
> TIA,
> Victor
First, raw_input will not return an integer, but rather characters, so 
the value of style will never be 1 or 2, but rather '1', or '2'.  

But even if you make your comparisons against  '1' and '2', this will 
not work since you've also made a simple logic error.  The conditional
  if (style != '1') or (style != '2'):
will always be True no matter what value  style has.  For instance
if style is '1', then the conditional evaluates like
  (False) or (True)
which evaluates to True. 

You want one of the following:
  if (style != '1') and (style != '2'):
or
  if not (style == '1' or style == '2'):
or
  if style == '1' or style == '2':
    flag = 1
  ...
or
  if style in ['1','2']:
    flag = 1
  ...
or better yet dispense with flag altogether
  while style not in ['1','2']:
    style = raw_input('There was a mistake ...

Gary Herron






From python-url at phaseit.net  Sun Aug 23 11:54:40 2009
From: python-url at phaseit.net (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 15:54:40 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Aug 23)
Message-ID: 

QOTW:  "... [O]nce you accept that text is best handled in Unicode, there's
little sense in making an exception for the limited subset that happens to
be representable in ASCII." - Ben Finney
    http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/msg/accc8c2ae9d7ed15

    
    Python 3.1.1 released:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/f34c4b07a61f4414/
    
    Parallelization in Python 2.6:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/c8169c393e58a5d5/
    
    012=3D=3D10, a relic from ancient times, is finally gone:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/3bc42fffb012635b/
    
    How to ensure a method is actually implemented in a derived class:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/42d0ec54b7683f23/
    
    Is this community sexist? (Also, etymology of the word
    "guy" < "Guy" ~ "Guido")
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/7a190c24d8025bb4/
    
    A "for" loop using range() is inefficient, but other Python variants
    are able to optimize it:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/27df793be6f5675/
    
    The scope of names inside a "class" statement:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/4a244346dc9a5f15/
    
    Counting how many times items from a set appear on a given list:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/fb0580cefff96682/
    
    Construct a dictionary from a list [key,value,key,value,...] (many
    recipes!):
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/e16e180b5f61f748/
    
    And more recipes: format a number with thousand separators:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/2eb729797f162a6e/
    
    Code style: how to write a long conditional expression:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/6876917a4d579d59/
    
    On the concept of "functor" and how it may be applied to Python:
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/t/8fbc7ad2ec11841c/
    
    
========================================================================
Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in
these pages:

    Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional
    center of Pythonia
        http://www.python.org
    Notice especially the master FAQ
        http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html

    PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the
    marvelous daily python url
         http://www.pythonware.com/daily

    Just beginning with Python?  This page is a great place to start:
	http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide/Programmers

    The Python Papers aims to publish "the efforts of Python enthusiasts":
	http://pythonpapers.org/
    The Python Magazine is a technical monthly devoted to Python:
	http://pythonmagazine.com

    Readers have recommended the "Planet" sites:
	http://planetpython.org
	http://planet.python.org

    comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software.  Be
    sure to scan this newsgroup weekly.
        http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python.announce/topics

    Python411 indexes "podcasts ... to help people learn Python ..."
    Updates appear more-than-weekly:
        http://www.awaretek.com/python/index.html

    The Python Package Index catalogues packages.
        http://www.python.org/pypi/

    Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group
    mailing lists
        http://www.python.org/sigs/

    Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line
    match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're
    subject with a vision of what the language makes practical.
        http://www.pythonology.com/success

    The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python
    Consortium as an independent nexus of activity.  It has official
    responsibility for Python's development and maintenance.
        http://www.python.org/psf/
    Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation.
        http://www.python.org/psf/donations/

    The Summary of Python Tracker Issues is an automatically generated
    report summarizing new bugs, closed ones, and patch submissions. 
        http://search.gmane.org/?author=status%40bugs.python.org&group=gmane.comp.python.devel&sort=date

    Although unmaintained since 2002, the Cetus collection of Python
    hyperlinks retains a few gems.
        http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html

    Python FAQTS
        http://python.faqts.com/

    The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and
    interesting recipes.
	http://code.activestate.com/recipes/langs/python/

    Many Python conferences around the world are in preparation.
    Watch this space for links to them.

    Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available, see:
        http://www.python.org/channews.rdf
    For more, see:
        http://www.syndic8.com/feedlist.php?ShowMatch=python&ShowStatus=all
    The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a
    SourceForge reincarnation.
        http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse
	http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0042/

    del.icio.us presents an intriguing approach to reference commentary.
    It already aggregates quite a bit of Python intelligence.
        http://del.icio.us/tag/python

    Enjoy the *Python Magazine*.
	http://pymag.phparch.com/

    *Py: the Journal of the Python Language*
        http://www.pyzine.com

    Dr.Dobb's Portal is another source of Python news and articles:
        http://www.ddj.com/TechSearch/searchResults.jhtml?queryText=python
    and Python articles regularly appear at IBM DeveloperWorks:
        http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/search/searchResults.jsp?searchSite=dW&searchScope=dW&encodedQuery=python&rankprofile=8

Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here:
  http://search.gmane.org/?query=python+URL+weekly+news+links&group=gmane.comp.python.general&sort=date
  http://groups.google.com/groups/search?q=Python-URL!+group%3Acomp.lang.python&start=0&scoring=d&
  http://lwn.net/Search/DoSearch?words=python-url&ctype3=yes&cat_25=yes

There is *not* an RSS for "Python-URL!"--at least not yet.  Arguments
for and against are occasionally entertained.


Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome.
E-mail to  should get through.

To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning
(approximately), ask  to subscribe.  Mention
"Python-URL!".  Write to the same address to unsubscribe.


-- The Python-URL! Team--

Phaseit, Inc. (http://phaseit.net) is pleased to participate in and
sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.  Watch this space for upcoming
news about posting archives.


From claird at lairds.us  Sun Aug 23 11:55:11 2009
From: claird at lairds.us (Cameron Laird)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 15:55:11 +0000
Subject: [Diversity] Language note
References: <20090807143826.GA19246@panix.com>
	
	<12470af00908080943g1e559273sdd5e4fc92336a5eb@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
Rami Chowdhury   wrote:
>
>> Most indian languages have a different
>> grammer (compared to English). So i'm curious to see how that would be
>> implemented in a parser
>
>+1 -- I'd be interested in seeing this too, although we have drifted  
>OT here and perhaps this conversation would be better had on Python- 
>list. The closest I've seen to a language being able to support  
>different grammatical structures is Perligata (http:// 
>www.csse.monash.edu.au/~damian/papers/HTML/Perligata.html), does  
>Python have anything similar?
			.
			.
			.
Yes and no.

There's considerably more to say on the subject than my own
patience permits for now.  Highlights, though:  I regard it
as a big deal whether a language permits Unicode in spelling
variable names (Python 3 does, despite ,
and presumably you know the situation in Perl); languages like
Lisp, Forth, and Tcl have minimal syntax, and rich traditions
of construction of problem-specific "little languages", so it's
common in them to see, for example, object orientation modeled
with a variety of lexical orders; and my own favorite
"little-language" work in Python has generally modeled VSO 
human languages.


From bartc at freeuk.com  Sun Aug 23 11:57:57 2009
From: bartc at freeuk.com (bartc)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 15:57:57 GMT
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal
	notation
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
Message-ID: <9Gdkm.71135$OO7.46868@text.news.virginmedia.com>


 wrote in message 
news:h6r4fb$18a$1 at aioe.org...
> In comp.lang.python James Harris  wrote:
>> On 22 Aug, 10:27, David <71da... at libero.it> wrote:
>
> ...
>>>
>>> What about 2_1011, 8_7621, 16_c26h or 2;1011, 8;7621, 16;c26h ?
>>
>> They look good - which is important. The trouble (for me) is that I
>> want the notation for a new programming language and already use these
>> characters. I have underscore as an optional separator for groups of
>> digits - 123000 and 123_000 mean the same.
>
> Why not just use the space? 123 000 looks better than 123_000, and
> is not syntactically ambiguous (at least in python).

If the purpose is to allow "_" to introduce a non-base ten literal, using 
this to enter a hexadecimal number might result in:

16_1234 ABCD

I'd say that that was ambiguous (depending on whether a name can follow a 
number; if you have a operator called ABCD, then that would be a problem). 
Unless each block of digits used it's own base:

16_1234 16_ABCD


> And as it
> already works for string literals, it could be applied to numbers, too?

String literals are conveniently surround by quotes, so they're a bit easier 
to recognise.

-- 
Bart 



From marduk at letterboxes.org  Sun Aug 23 12:08:02 2009
From: marduk at letterboxes.org (Albert Hopkins)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 12:08:02 -0400
Subject: Trying To Catch Invalid User Input
In-Reply-To: <4A9161EA.5050602@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <4dc0cfea0908230804o29a328ecmdb99af2ef790f5ac@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A9161EA.5050602@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <1251043682.19411.38.camel@centar.nbk>

On Sun, 2009-08-23 at 16:36 +0100, MRAB wrote:
> Victor Subervi wrote:
> > Hi;
> > I have the following:
> > 
> > style = raw_input('What style is this? (1 = short, 2 = long): ')
> > flag = 0
> > while flag == 0:
> >   if (style != 1) or (style != 2):
> >     style = raw_input('There was a mistake. What style is this? (1 = 
> > short, 2 = long): ')
> >   else:
> >     flag = 1
> > 
> > I would think this would catch errors and permit valid values, but it 
> > doesn't. If I enter an erroneous value the first time, and the second 
> > time a good value, it doesn't break the loop. Why?
> > 
> This is wrong:
> 
>      (style != 1) or (style != 2)
> 
> For example, if style is 1 (which should be a valid value):
> 
>      (style != 1) or (style != 2)
>   => (1     != 1) or (1     != 2)
>   => False        or True
>   => True
> 
> What you mean is:
> 
>      (style != 1) and (style != 2)

Or (perhaps) better:

VALID_STYLES = {1: 'short', 2: 'long'}

style = None
while style not in VALID_STYLES:
    style = raw_input('What style is this? %s: ' %
        str(VALID_STYLES).replace(':', ' ='))
    
    # also, raw_input() returns a string
    try:
        style = int(style)
    except ValueError:
        pass




From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Sun Aug 23 12:12:50 2009
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 09:12:50 -0700
Subject: generate keyboard/mouse event under windows
In-Reply-To: <9f107280-5d5c-4e6e-b47b-779e8012fdbc@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
References: <96047669-1bfd-4dbe-bed8-fafea07bbc5a@z34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	
	<9f107280-5d5c-4e6e-b47b-779e8012fdbc@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Ray wrote:
> On Aug 19, 2:07 pm, yaka  wrote:
>> Read this and see if it helps:
>>
>> http://kvance.livejournal.com/985732.html
> 
> is there a way to generate a 'true' keyboard event? (works like user
> pressed a key on keyboard)
> not send the 'send keyboard event to application' ?

If there is such a spot, it is a major security weakness.
You'd be able to automate password attacks.

--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From jjposner at optimum.net  Sun Aug 23 12:18:43 2009
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 12:18:43 -0400
Subject: conditional for-statement
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A916BE3.5010804@optimum.net>


>> Hi,
>>
>> i was wondering if there is a syntax alike:
>>
>> for i in range(10) if i > 5:
>>     print i
>>     
>
> You can write
>
> for i in filter(lambda i: i > 5, range(10)):
>     print i
>
> but 
>
> for i in range(10):
>     if i > 5:
>         print i
>
> it' better readable, and
>
> for i in range(6,10):
>     print i
>
> it's event better.
>
>   


How about using a generator expression instead of a list?

  for i in (x for x in range(10) if x > 5):
      print i

-John


From koranthala at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 12:25:48 2009
From: koranthala at gmail.com (koranthala)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 09:25:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: can python make web applications?
References: 
Message-ID: <7f0cc793-c4ae-4f7d-87a4-9471f640db89@y4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 23, 8:12?pm, Deep_Feelings  wrote:
> can python make powerfull database web applications that can replace
> desktop database applications? e.g: entrprise accounting
> programs,enterprise human resource management programs ...etc

Very much so.
The web frameworks, Django & TurboGears are quite powerful and can be
used to do what you just now mentioned.
Check out Django - esp if the application is database centric. It has
very good documentation and a free online book - djangobook.


From victorsubervi at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 12:27:48 2009
From: victorsubervi at gmail.com (Victor Subervi)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 11:27:48 -0500
Subject: Trying To Catch Invalid User Input
In-Reply-To: <1251043682.19411.38.camel@centar.nbk>
References: <4dc0cfea0908230804o29a328ecmdb99af2ef790f5ac@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A9161EA.5050602@mrabarnett.plus.com>
	<1251043682.19411.38.camel@centar.nbk>
Message-ID: <4dc0cfea0908230927m45420f3dxbae2c42c95540c59@mail.gmail.com>

Really slick! Thanks!
V

On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 11:08 AM, Albert Hopkins wrote:

> On Sun, 2009-08-23 at 16:36 +0100, MRAB wrote:
> > Victor Subervi wrote:
> > > Hi;
> > > I have the following:
> > >
> > > style = raw_input('What style is this? (1 = short, 2 = long): ')
> > > flag = 0
> > > while flag == 0:
> > >   if (style != 1) or (style != 2):
> > >     style = raw_input('There was a mistake. What style is this? (1 =
> > > short, 2 = long): ')
> > >   else:
> > >     flag = 1
> > >
> > > I would think this would catch errors and permit valid values, but it
> > > doesn't. If I enter an erroneous value the first time, and the second
> > > time a good value, it doesn't break the loop. Why?
> > >
> > This is wrong:
> >
> >      (style != 1) or (style != 2)
> >
> > For example, if style is 1 (which should be a valid value):
> >
> >      (style != 1) or (style != 2)
> >   => (1     != 1) or (1     != 2)
> >   => False        or True
> >   => True
> >
> > What you mean is:
> >
> >      (style != 1) and (style != 2)
>
> Or (perhaps) better:
>
> VALID_STYLES = {1: 'short', 2: 'long'}
>
> style = None
> while style not in VALID_STYLES:
>    style = raw_input('What style is this? %s: ' %
>        str(VALID_STYLES).replace(':', ' ='))
>
>    # also, raw_input() returns a string
>    try:
>        style = int(style)
>    except ValueError:
>        pass
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From nmm1 at cam.ac.uk  Sun Aug 23 12:34:16 2009
From: nmm1 at cam.ac.uk (nmm1 at cam.ac.uk)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 17:34:16 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
	<1032c78d-d4dd-41c0-a877-b85ca000d871@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

In article <1032c78d-d4dd-41c0-a877-b85ca000d871 at g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>,
sturlamolden   wrote:
>On 23 Aug, 12:35, n... at cam.ac.uk wrote:
>
>> I am interested in surveying people who want to interoperate between
>> Fortran and Python to find out what they would like to be able to do
>> more conveniently, especially with regard to types not supported for C
>> interoperability by the current Fortran standard. =A0Any suggestions as t=
>o
>> other ways that I could survey such people (Usenet is no longer as
>> ubiquitous as it used to be) would be welcomed.
>
>I think you will find that 99.9% of Python and Fortran programmers are
>scientists and engineers that also use NumPy and f2py. Go to scipy.org
>and ask your question on the numpy mailing list.
>
>Regards,
>Sturla Molden
>
>
>


Thanks.  I had forgotten they had a mailing list.

Nick.


From dmw at coder.cl  Sun Aug 23 12:35:33 2009
From: dmw at coder.cl (Daniel Molina Wegener)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 12:35:33 -0400
Subject: [ANN] pyxser-1.2r --- Python-Object to XML serialization module
Message-ID: <2571343.k9db9GJWqV@coder.cl>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Hello,

I'm pleased to announce pyxser-1.2r, a Python-Object to XML
serializer and deserializer. This module package it's completely
written in C and licensed under LGPLv3.

The tested Python versions are 2.5.X and 2.7.X.

* home page:
? http://coder.cl/software/pyxser

* hosted at:
? http://sourceforge.net/projects/pyxser/

* pypi entry:
? http://pypi.python.org/pypi?:action=display&name=pyxser&version=1.2r

The current ChangeLog is as follows:

- -----8<----------8<----------8<----------8<-----
1.2r (2009.08.23):

? ? ? ? Daniel Molina Wegener 
? ? ? ? * Added encoded serialization of Unicode strings by using
? ? ? ? the user defined encoding as is passed to the serialization
? ? ? ? functions as enc parameter
? ? ? ? * Refactored some functions to allow more ordered code.
- -----8<----------8<----------8<----------8<-----

As you see, now Unicode strings are serialized as encoded byte string
by using the encoding that the user pass as enc parameter to the
serialization function. This means that Unicode strings are serialized
in a human readable form, regarding a better interoperability with
other platforms.

Best regards...
- --
?.O. | Daniel Molina Wegener ? | FreeBSD & Linux
?..O | dmw [at] coder [dot] cl | Open Standards
?OOO | http://coder.cl/ ? ? ? ?| FOSS Developer
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From foo at bar.invalid  Sun Aug 23 13:06:48 2009
From: foo at bar.invalid (JB)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 20:06:48 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
Message-ID: 

["Followup-To:" header set to comp.lang.fortran.]
On 2009-08-23, nmm1 at cam.ac.uk  wrote:
>
> I am interested in surveying people who want to interoperate between
> Fortran and Python to find out what they would like to be able to do
> more conveniently, especially with regard to types not supported for C
> interoperability by the current Fortran standard.  Any suggestions as to
> other ways that I could survey such people (Usenet is no longer as
> ubiquitous as it used to be) would be welcomed.
>
> My Email address is real, so direct messages will be received.
>
> Specifically, I should like to know the answers to the following
> questions:
>
>     1) Do you want to use character strings of arbitrary length?

As in, a signed C int (that most Fortran implementations use to keep
track of string lengths) may not be sufficient? No, I'm not
particularly interested in that.

>     2) Do you want to use Python classes with list members, where the
> length of the list is not necessarily fixed for all instances of the
> class?  Or, equivalently, Fortran derived types containing allocatable
> or pointer arrays?

Yes.

>     2) Do you want to use Fortran derived types or Python classes that
> contain type-bound procedures (including finalizers)?  Please answer
> "yes" whether or nor you would like to call those type-bound procedures
> from the other language.

In python I use it all the time, haven't used any F2003 OOP features
yet.  

>     4) Do you want to call functions where the called language allocates
> or deallocates arrays/lists/strings for use by the calling language?
> Note that this is specifically Fortran->Python and Python->Fortran.

Yes. 


Generally speaking, f2py today is not that bad, though it's getting
long in the tooth. There is a project called fwrap that aims to create
an improved python/Fortran bridge:

http://conference.scipy.org/static/wiki/smith_fwrap.pdf

This project uses ISO_C_BINDING, and I think that this is the correct
approach rather than trying to keep up with whatever ABI's all those
Fortran compilers use. So from the Fortran side of the fence, I
suppose the path forward would be to improve on the C binding
functionality (this would also of course benefit other language
bindings than just python). Whether TR 29113 is the right path forward
or not I have no strong opinion on. Specifically what's needed is some
way to portably access the array descriptor data, and maybe also how
to access the OOP functionality in a standardized way. The experience
with C++ ABI's suggests that this might not be as straightforward as
it sounds.


-- 
JB


From matthew at woodcraft.me.uk  Sun Aug 23 13:23:06 2009
From: matthew at woodcraft.me.uk (Matthew Woodcraft)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 17:23:06 GMT
Subject: Most "active" coroutine library project?
References: <64183b73-9cb0-4ce1-98d0-f47e13a818e4@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87ab1qfnr9.fsf@golux.woodcraft.me.uk>

Phillip B Oldham  writes:

> I've been taking a look at the multitude of coroutine libraries
> available for Python, but from the looks of the projects they all seem
> to be rather "quiet". I'd like to pick one up to use on a current
> project but can't deduce which is the most popular/has the largest
> community.
>
> Libraries I looked at include: cogen, weightless, eventlet and
> circuits (which isn't exactly coroutine-based but it's event-driven
> model was intriguing).
>
> Firstly, are there any others I've missed?

There's greenlets

http://pypi.python.org/pypi/greenlet

which I think is also fairly described as "quiet".

-M-


From james.harris.1 at googlemail.com  Sun Aug 23 14:11:36 2009
From: james.harris.1 at googlemail.com (James Harris)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 11:11:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: <2h2hwo918umw.1ihpdwjimzge8$.dlg@40tude.net>
	
Message-ID: <583bb6bd-9723-4ff7-bc0e-d58782cf9296@k30g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>

On 21 Aug, 00:59, James Harris  wrote:

...

> > Is there some magic to make the 2.x CPython interpreter to ignore the
> > annoying octal notation?
> > I'd really like 012 to be "12" and not "10".
>
> This is (IMHO) a sad hangover from C (which took it from B ...

This seemed worth writing up so I've taken the snipped comments and
posted them at

  http://sundry.wikispaces.com/octal-zero-prefix

The idea is that the page can be pointed to any time the issue comes
up again.

I've also fleshed the comments out a bit.

James


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Aug 23 14:12:00 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 23 Aug 2009 11:12:00 -0700
Subject: Polling a net address
References: <99ddf4e1-d327-4fb1-aee4-aa881de3b3af@d23g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

In article <99ddf4e1-d327-4fb1-aee4-aa881de3b3af at d23g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>,
Iain   wrote:
>
>I'm writing a system tray application for windows, and the app needs
>to poll a remote site at a pre-defined interval, and then process any
>data returned.
>
>The GUI needs to remain responsive as this goes on, so the polling
>needs to be done in the background. I've been looking into Twisted as
>a way of achieving this, but can't seem to get anything to loop
>successfully.
>
>Does anyone have any pointers that they might be able to give me?

You might prefer trying out threads instead; there's a simple Tkinter
example in
http://www.pythoncraft.com/OSCON2001/index.html
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I support family values -- Addams family values" --www.nancybuttons.com


From stefaan.himpe at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 14:32:04 2009
From: stefaan.himpe at gmail.com (Stefaan Himpe)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 20:32:04 +0200
Subject: can python make web applications?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Deep_Feelings wrote:
> can python make powerfull database web applications that can replace
> desktop database applications? e.g: entrprise accounting
> programs,enterprise human resource management programs ...etc

In addition to the recommendations by other people, I'd like to
recommend the very easy to learn and use web2py. (www.web2py.com).


From nmm1 at cam.ac.uk  Sun Aug 23 14:42:51 2009
From: nmm1 at cam.ac.uk (nmm1 at cam.ac.uk)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 19:42:51 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

In article , JB   wrote:
>["Followup-To:" header set to comp.lang.fortran.]

Sorry - set back again, because you don't provide an Email address,
and there's a significant issue.  Thanks for the response.

>>     1) Do you want to use character strings of arbitrary length?
>
>As in, a signed C int (that most Fortran implementations use to keep
>track of string lengths) may not be sufficient? No, I'm not
>particularly interested in that.

No, I mean things like 'Kilroy was here'.  Currently, Fortran's C
interoperability supports only strings of length 1, and you have
to kludge them up as arrays.  That doesn't work very well, especially
for things like function results.

>Generally speaking, f2py today is not that bad, though it's getting
>long in the tooth. There is a project called fwrap that aims to create
>an improved python/Fortran bridge:

Thanks.  I will look at that.

>This project uses ISO_C_BINDING, and I think that this is the correct
>approach rather than trying to keep up with whatever ABI's all those
>Fortran compilers use. So from the Fortran side of the fence, I
>suppose the path forward would be to improve on the C binding
>functionality (this would also of course benefit other language
>bindings than just python). Whether TR 29113 is the right path forward
>or not I have no strong opinion on. Specifically what's needed is some
>way to portably access the array descriptor data, and maybe also how
>to access the OOP functionality in a standardized way. The experience
>with C++ ABI's suggests that this might not be as straightforward as
>it sounds.

That is precisely what I am investigating.  TR 29113 falls a LONG
way before it gets to any of the OOP data - indeed, you can't even
pass OOP derived types as pure data (without even the functionality)
in its model.  Nor most of what else Python would expect.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.


From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 14:48:50 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 11:48:50 -0700
Subject: Questions on XML
In-Reply-To: <97c638a50908221327ge57818ahc1bb4c9ad3eb186b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <51b22a8c-54de-484e-9b3c-9baeb4498f69@q40g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	
	<97c638a50908221327ge57818ahc1bb4c9ad3eb186b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200908231148.51151.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com>

My problem is with IDLE on Windows. When I try to type Bangla directly into 
the IDLE window I only get '?' characters, and repr() fails with a 
UnicodeDecodeError. I expect, though, that that's because of my specific 
installation / Windows issues, as it works fine on Fedora 10...

> I do not get any problem in processing Hindi or Bangla or any Indian
> language in Python it is perfectly fine.
I have no problems either -- my issues are with IDLE, and only on Windows.

----
Rami Chowdhury
"Strangers are just friends who haven't had enough gin." -- Howdle's Saying
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)

On Saturday 22 August 2009 13:27:02 SUBHABRATA BANERJEE wrote:
> Should I help you? If you answered my questions I am differing from your
> view I do not get any problem in processing Hindi or Bangla or any Indian
> language in Python it is perfectly fine.
> Best Regards,
> Subhabrata.
>
> On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 9:48 AM, Rami Chowdhury 
wrote:
> > I am using primarily UTF-8 based strings, like Hindi or Bengali. Can I
> >
> >> use Python to help me in this regard?
> >
> > I can say from experience that Python on Windows (at least, Python 2.5 on
> > 32-bit Vista) works perfectly well with UTF-8 files containing Bangla. I
> > have had trouble with working with the data in IDLE, however, which seems
> > to prefer ASCII by default.
> >
> > -------------
> > Rami Chowdhury
> > "Never assume malice when stupidity will suffice." -- Hanlon's Razor
> > 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Aug 21, 2009, at 19:15 , joy99 wrote:
> >
> >   Dear Group,
> >
> >> I like to convert some simple strings of natural language to XML. May
> >> I use Python to do this? If any one can help me, on this.
> >>
> >> I am using primarily UTF-8 based strings, like Hindi or Bengali. Can I
> >> use Python to help me in this regard?
> >>
> >> How can I learn good XML aspects of Python. If any one can kindly name
> >> me a book or URL.
> >>
> >> I am using Python2.6 on Windows XP with IDLE as GUI.
> >>
> >> Best Regards,
> >> Subhabrata.
> >> --
> >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Sun Aug 23 14:52:16 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 20:52:16 +0200
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4a918fe0$0$30226$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net>

Simon Brunning wrote:
> 2009/8/11 Robert Dailey:
>> On Aug 11, 3:40 pm, Bearophile wrote:
>>> There are gals too here.
>> It's a figure of speech. And besides, why would I want programming
>> advice from a woman? lol. Thanks for the help.
> 
> Give the attitudes still prevalent in our industry (cf
>  and many more), I'm sorry to say that I
> don't think this is funny.

Me neither.

I used to reply with comments like "you just missed more than half of the
world's population" to people who started their postings with "hi guys!",
and I stopped doing that as a) it became too tiring, especially on a
potentially-for-newbees group like c.l.py, and b) to many people it
actually *is* a figure of speech.

But reading statements like the above really makes me feel that it's best
to comment even on simple things like "hi guys!".

Stefan


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Sun Aug 23 15:11:57 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:11:57 +0200
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>	<90cd2c33-5f2d-4a29-b267-67f233ae2946@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>	<4A8ADF6D.2030405@sequans.com>		
	
Message-ID: <4a91947d$0$30226$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> Grant Edwards wrote:
>> On 2009-08-18, Simon Forman  wrote:
>>> Sexism, racism, homophobia, religious intolerance, etc., all
>>> stem from a fundamental forgetfulness of our Unity in God (as
>>> I would put it) and this is perhaps the single greatest cause
>>> of human misery.
>>
>> You mean the single greatest cause of human misery isn't
>> Microsoft Windows?
>>   
> No, emacs is responsible ! Hail to Vi !

Heck, where's Godwin's law when you need it?

Stefan


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Sun Aug 23 15:25:51 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:25:51 +0200
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
In-Reply-To: <62dbf088-4510-40d0-af3e-3feeb291d6e4@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<1fa1663b-a1cb-42d4-890b-0617b73e8816@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<9b8c48a3-b050-4a13-83f5-bc4185c62bdc@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<86bb893a-344a-4c7b-9fc6-67d9f42c7607@q14g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	<62dbf088-4510-40d0-af3e-3feeb291d6e4@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a9197c0$0$30226$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net>

Mensanator wrote:
> asking how many Jews you can fit into a Volswagen.

None, because it's already full.

(or "voll" as those who design Volkswagens would put it...)

Stefan


From voodoorai2000 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 15:47:21 2009
From: voodoorai2000 at gmail.com (Raimond Garcia)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:47:21 +0200
Subject: Is python faster than java?
Message-ID: 

I'm building a large application, kind of fancy python but I'm concerned
about speed.
Cheers

Peter
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From pengyu.ut at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 15:54:15 2009
From: pengyu.ut at gmail.com (Peng Yu)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 12:54:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Combining python and perl
References: <743337bf-487f-434d-b15c-4b675b6487f4@d21g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 23, 8:00?am, Albert Hopkins  wrote:
> On Sun, 2009-08-23 at 05:37 -0700, Peng Yu wrote:
> > Hi,
>
> > According tohttp://www.python.org/doc/essays/comparisons.html, it
> > says
>
> > "Python and Perl come from a similar background (Unix scripting, which
> > both have long outgrown), and sport many similar features, but have a
> > different philosophy. Perl emphasizes support for common application-
> > oriented tasks, e.g. by having built-in regular expressions, file
> > scanning and report generating features. Python emphasizes support for
> > common programming methodologies such as data structure design and
> > object-oriented programming, and encourages programmers to write
> > readable (and thus maintainable) code by providing an elegant but not
> > overly cryptic notation. As a consequence, Python comes close to Perl
> > but rarely beats it in its original application domain; however Python
> > has an applicability well beyond Perl's niche."
>
> > My question is that how to combine both python and perl to take
> > advantages of both their strong aspects. Of course, I want to
> > primarily use python---that is why I send this message to this group.
>
> I'm not sure why you'd want to "combine" them. ?You can pretty much do
> the same things with both language, it's just that one may emphasize one
> thing or make it easier for the user than the other. ?For example,
> regular expressions in Perl. ?It's built into the language, but that
> doesn't mean Python doesn't have regular expressions, just that Python
> is less "centered" around them. ?If you want to use regular expressions
> with Python just "import re".

I understand that the sames things can be done with both language.

But I do think that certain applications can be done faster (in term
of the coding & debugging time, I don't care runtime here) with one
language than with another. Therefore, for any give problem, it is
meaningful to decide, based on the time to write and debug the code,
which part should be programmed with perl and which part should be
programed with python. However, when I split the code in perl and
python, the problem of the integration is introduced, which incur
additional coding and maintenance cost.

I am sure that somebody must has already encounter the similar
situation like I described above. I am wondering whether there are any
advices on how to take advantages of both languages to speed up the
code development time and reduce maintenance cost.

Regards,
Peng


From emile at fenx.com  Sun Aug 23 15:59:37 2009
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 12:59:37 -0700
Subject: Is python faster than java?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 8/23/2009 12:47 PM Raimond Garcia said...
> I'm building a large application, 

What kind of application?

> kind of fancy python but I'm concerned 
> about speed.

Speed of what? Development? User interaction? Responsiveness to queries? 
Mostly, you should worry about speed later.  Writing it in python is 
probably faster than java.  Then optimize the slow bits once you've 
identified where its needed.

Emile



From brannerchinese at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 16:13:16 2009
From: brannerchinese at gmail.com (David Prager Branner)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 13:13:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: web frameworks that support Python 3
Message-ID: 

I use Chinese and therefore Unicode very heavily, and so Python 3 is
an unavoidable choice for me. But I'm frustrated by the fact that
Django, Pylons, and TurboGears do not support Python 3 yet and
(according to their development websites) will not for a very long
time to come.

So I am asking for recommendations for web frameworks that support
Python 3. I am running Ubuntu 9.04 (Jaunty).

Thanks!


From max at alcyone.com  Sun Aug 23 16:14:41 2009
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 13:14:41 -0700
Subject: IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename: in windows
	xp while making tarfile
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

Ryniek90 wrote:
> I've got my backup script which opens tarfile for add chosen file to it. 
> But while setting it up, i've got Traceback:
> here's the url: -->http://paste.ubuntu.com/258081/<--
> 
> I have searched among google's result but didn't found anything useful. 
> Only found info that it may be the backslashes fault in path, but i have 
> written proper the path.
> 
> Here's link to my script paste: http://paste.ubuntu.com/258087/
> 
> Is its the '|\U' literal fault in path '|C:\\Users\\Ryniek's 
> WinSe7en\\MyNewGGBackup(2009-08-23 14:59:02).tar.bz2|' ?
> 
> Sorry if i'm annoying but i'm still learning.

It's probably a misleading error from the OS; I would guess the problem 
is that the filename contains colons, which I believe is a no-no on Windows.

You want to make sure to always escape your backslashes (or use raw 
strings), too, or that's going to bite you sometime later (but it's not 
your main problem here).

-- 
Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
  San Jose, CA, USA && 37 18 N 121 57 W && AIM/Y!M/Skype erikmaxfrancis
   Every human being is a problem in search of a solution.
    -- Ashley Montague


From marduk at letterboxes.org  Sun Aug 23 16:32:09 2009
From: marduk at letterboxes.org (Albert Hopkins)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 16:32:09 -0400
Subject: web frameworks that support Python 3
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <1251059529.12426.23.camel@centar.nbk>

On Sun, 2009-08-23 at 13:13 -0700, David Prager Branner wrote:
> I use Chinese and therefore Unicode very heavily, and so Python 3 is
> an unavoidable choice for me. But I'm frustrated by the fact that
> Django, Pylons, and TurboGears do not support Python 3 yet and
> (according to their development websites) will not for a very long
> time to come.
> 
> So I am asking for recommendations for web frameworks that support
> Python 3. I am running Ubuntu 9.04 (Jaunty).

Python 2.x has Unicode.  In fact Django and the like use unicode
heavily.

What's different about Python 3 is that there is only unicode strings,
whereas Python 2 has a string type and a unicode type.

So it's not true that Python 3 is an unavoidable choice for using
unicode.




From basti.wiesner at gmx.net  Sun Aug 23 16:34:50 2009
From: basti.wiesner at gmx.net (Sebastian Wiesner)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 22:34:50 +0200
Subject: web frameworks that support Python 3
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <200908232234.58373.basti.wiesner@gmx.net>

At Sunday 23 August 2009 22:13:16 you wrote:
> I use Chinese and therefore Unicode very heavily, and so Python 3 is
> an unavoidable choice for me.
Python 2.x supports Unicode just as well as Python 3.  Every common web 
framework works perfectly with unicode.

In any case, there is bottle [1], which provides a *very minimal* framework 
for WSGI web development.  Don't expect too much, it is really small, and 
doesn't do much more than routing and minimal templating.

However, it is the only Python-3-compatible web framework I know of.

[1] http://bottle.paws.de/page/start

-- 
Freedom is always the freedom of dissenters.
                                      (Rosa Luxemburg)
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From marduk at letterboxes.org  Sun Aug 23 16:34:55 2009
From: marduk at letterboxes.org (Albert Hopkins)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 16:34:55 -0400
Subject: Combining python and perl
In-Reply-To: 
References: <743337bf-487f-434d-b15c-4b675b6487f4@d21g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <1251059695.12426.27.camel@centar.nbk>

On Sun, 2009-08-23 at 12:54 -0700, Peng Yu wrote:

> I understand that the sames things can be done with both language.
> 
> But I do think that certain applications can be done faster (in term
> of the coding & debugging time, I don't care runtime here) with one
> language than with another. 

Yes, and usually that application is written in that language *or* the
other.

> Therefore, for any give problem, it is
> meaningful to decide, based on the time to write and debug the code,
> which part should be programmed with perl and which part should be
> programed with python. However, when I split the code in perl and
> python, the problem of the integration is introduced, which incur
> additional coding and maintenance cost.
> 

Couldn't agree more.

> I am sure that somebody must has already encounter the similar
> situation like I described above. I am wondering whether there are any
> advices on how to take advantages of both languages to speed up the
> code development time and reduce maintenance cost.

Perhaps you need to give more specific criteria.  I've worked on a few
projects where different languages are used, but in different "domains".
For example, the client may be written in Python but the server written
in Java or PHP.  Or different subsystems written in different languages.
For example, the workflow engine may be written in Python but the batch
processor written in C.  However in these cases, for the most part, the
systems themselves are monolingual though they communicate with each
other using well-defined, common interfaces (e.g. TCP/IP, XMLRPC, HL7,
etc.).

If, however, you are thinking of writing a sub-system in multiple
languages (ala permodule, for example), you are in for a world of hurt.
Not only will the code be difficult to maintain yourself, it will be
difficult for others to maintain/understand it.  Most people don't say
things like "Well I'm going to write all the 'object' stuff in Python
but all the string processing in Perl.  What usually motivates people to
write systems in multiple languages are:

      * Availability of third-party libraries in a certain language.
      * Combining separate systems written in different languages.
      * Developer's capabilities in one language or the other
      * External dependencies (e.g. need to to have a plugin system for
        people to program in Python).
      * Performance.
      * Other types of "glue" (e.g. installation scripts need to be
        written in Perl, test system is Java based so CI scripts need to
        be in Java).

permodule is nice for "simple" or "one-off" kind of stuff (or for any of
the above reasons).  But any reasonably-sized application using
something like that throughout is going to be a maintenance nightmare.




From sdementen at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 16:36:10 2009
From: sdementen at gmail.com (seb)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 13:36:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: conditional for-statement
References:  
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 23, 6:18?pm, John Posner  wrote:
> >> Hi,
>
> >> i was wondering if there is a syntax alike:
>
> >> for i in range(10) if i > 5:
> >> ? ? print i
>
> > You can write
>
> > for i in filter(lambda i: i > 5, range(10)):
> > ? ? print i
>
> > but
>
> > for i in range(10):
> > ? ? if i > 5:
> > ? ? ? ? print i
>
> > it' better readable, and
>
> > for i in range(6,10):
> > ? ? print i
>
> > it's event better.
>
> How about using a generator expression instead of a list?
>
> ? for i in (x for x in range(10) if x > 5):
> ? ? ? print i
>
> -John

Indeed, but we could have the same syntax than for generators but
directly in the for statement as in
for variable in generator if condition:
    body

Is there a special reason for not doing so ? A rejected PEP ?


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Sun Aug 23 16:43:20 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 22:43:20 +0200
Subject: web frameworks that support Python 3
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4a91a9e8$0$30226$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net>

David Prager Branner wrote:
> I use Chinese and therefore Unicode very heavily, and so Python 3 is
> an unavoidable choice for me.

As others noted before, this statement is not true by itself.


> But I'm frustrated by the fact that
> Django, Pylons, and TurboGears do not support Python 3 yet and
> (according to their development websites) will not for a very long
> time to come.

http://wiki.python.org/moin/PortingDjangoTo3k

Stefan


From pyklass at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 16:45:17 2009
From: pyklass at gmail.com (Goke Aruna)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:45:17 +0100
Subject: can python make web applications?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <30ef32480908231345l1d3f96eqb59825fdd2d2e1cd@mail.gmail.com>

A lot check this fantastic open source application,
http://www.openerp.com, all done is python.

On 8/23/09, Stefaan Himpe  wrote:
> Deep_Feelings wrote:
>> can python make powerfull database web applications that can replace
>> desktop database applications? e.g: entrprise accounting
>> programs,enterprise human resource management programs ...etc
>
> In addition to the recommendations by other people, I'd like to
> recommend the very easy to learn and use web2py. (www.web2py.com).
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

-- 
Sent from my mobile device


From voodoorai2000 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 16:49:32 2009
From: voodoorai2000 at gmail.com (Raimond Garcia)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 22:49:32 +0200
Subject: Is python faster than java?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

Makes sense.
+1

Cheers

Peter

On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 9:59 PM, Emile van Sebille  wrote:

> On 8/23/2009 12:47 PM Raimond Garcia said...
>
>> I'm building a large application,
>>
>
> What kind of application?


>
>  kind of fancy python but I'm concerned about speed.
>>
>
> Speed of what? Development? User interaction? Responsiveness to queries?
> Mostly, you should worry about speed later.  Writing it in python is
> probably faster than java.  Then optimize the slow bits once you've
> identified where its needed.
>
> Emile
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From james.harris.1 at googlemail.com  Sun Aug 23 16:55:19 2009
From: james.harris.1 at googlemail.com (James Harris)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 13:55:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
References:  
	
	 
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com> 
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	<4a90b50e.154654859@text.giganews.com>
Message-ID: <9411f79a-934f-494c-93bc-dc020646f281@z24g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On 23 Aug, 04:38, c... at tiac.net (Richard Harter) wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:54:41 -0700 (PDT), James Harris
>
>
>
>
>
>  wrote:
> >On 22 Aug, 10:27, David <71da... at libero.it> wrote:
>
> >... (snipped a discussion on languages and other systems interpreting
> >numbers with a leading zero as octal)
>
> >> > Either hexadecimal should have been 0h or octal should
> >> > have been 0t :=3D)
>
> >> I have seen the use of Q/q instead in order to make it clearer. I still
> >> prefer Smalltalk's 16rFF and 8r377.
>
> >> Two interesting options. In a project I have on I have also considered
> >> using 0q as indicating octal. I maybe saw it used once somewhere else
> >> but I have no idea where. 0t was a second choice and 0c third choice
> >> (the other letters of oct). 0o should NOT be used for obvious reasons.
>
> >> So you are saying that Smalltalk has r where
> >> r is presumably for radix? That's maybe best of all. It preserves the
> >> syntactic requirement of starting a number with a digit and seems to
> >> have greatest flexibility. Not sure how good it looks but it's
> >> certainly not bad.
>
> I opine that a letter is better; special characters are a
> valuable piece of real estate.

Very very true.

> ?However for floating point you
> need at least three letters because a floating point number has
> three parts: the fixed point point, the exponent base, and the
> exponent. ?Now we can represent the radices of the individual
> parts with the 'r'scheme, e.g., 2r101001, but we need separate
> letters to designate the exponent base and the exponent. ?B and E
> are the obvious choices, though we want to be careful about a
> confusion with 'b' in hex. ?For example, using 'R',
>
> 3R20.1B2E16Rac

Ooh err!


> is 20.1 in trinary (6 1/3) times 2**172 (hex ac).
>
> I grant that this example looks a bit gobbledegookish,

You think? :-)

> but normal
> usage would be much simpler. ?The notation doesn't handle
> balanced trinary; however I opine that balanced trinary requires
> special notation.

When the programmer needs to construct such values how about allowing
him or her to specify something like

  (20.1 in base 3) times 2 to the power of 0xac

Leaving out how to specify (20.1 in base 3) for now this could be

  (20.1 in base 3) * 2 ** 0xac

The compiler could convert this to a constant.

James


From sdementen at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 16:58:01 2009
From: sdementen at gmail.com (seb)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 13:58:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: conditional for-statement
References:  
	
	
Message-ID: <9571ca2a-8559-403a-8ba5-aa6626f13ee6@32g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 23, 10:36?pm, seb  wrote:
> On Aug 23, 6:18?pm, John Posner  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > >> Hi,
>
> > >> i was wondering if there is a syntax alike:
>
> > >> for i in range(10) if i > 5:
> > >> ? ? print i
>
> > > You can write
>
> > > for i in filter(lambda i: i > 5, range(10)):
> > > ? ? print i
>
> > > but
>
> > > for i in range(10):
> > > ? ? if i > 5:
> > > ? ? ? ? print i
>
> > > it' better readable, and
>
> > > for i in range(6,10):
> > > ? ? print i
>
> > > it's event better.
>
> > How about using a generator expression instead of a list?
>
> > ? for i in (x for x in range(10) if x > 5):
> > ? ? ? print i
>
> > -John
>
> Indeed, but we could have the same syntax than for generators but
> directly in the for statement as in
> for variable in generator if condition:
> ? ? body
>
> Is there a special reason for not doing so ? A rejected PEP ?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I just found the same thread on the python ideas group at
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-ideas/2009-April/004278.html

sorry for reposting


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sun Aug 23 17:02:16 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 14:02:16 -0700
Subject: conditional for-statement
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908231402p1ff54041jba173c3e23ffab12@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 1:36 PM, seb wrote:
> On Aug 23, 6:18?pm, John Posner  wrote:
>> >> Hi,
>>
>> >> i was wondering if there is a syntax alike:
>>
>> >> for i in range(10) if i > 5:
>> >> ? ? print i
>>
>> > You can write
>>
>> > for i in filter(lambda i: i > 5, range(10)):
>> > ? ? print i
>>
>> > but
>>
>> > for i in range(10):
>> > ? ? if i > 5:
>> > ? ? ? ? print i
>>
>> > it' better readable, and
>>
>> > for i in range(6,10):
>> > ? ? print i
>>
>> > it's event better.
>>
>> How about using a generator expression instead of a list?
>>
>> ? for i in (x for x in range(10) if x > 5):
>> ? ? ? print i
>>
>> -John
>
> Indeed, but we could have the same syntax than for generators but
> directly in the for statement as in
> for variable in generator if condition:
> ? ?body
>
> Is there a special reason for not doing so ? A rejected PEP ?

It's not been added since it's completely unnecessary (see the several
alternatives already presented by others).
There have been a few other mailinglist threads on adding essentially
the same syntax. None have proved fruitful.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From james.harris.1 at googlemail.com  Sun Aug 23 17:42:16 2009
From: james.harris.1 at googlemail.com (James Harris)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 14:42:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
References:  
	
	 
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com> 
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
Message-ID: 

On 23 Aug, 00:16, Mel  wrote:
> James Harris wrote:
> > I have no idea why Ada which uses the # also apparently uses it to end
> > a number
>
> > ? 2#1011#, 8#7621#, 16#c26b#
>
> Interesting. ?They do it because of this example from
> :

Thanks for providing an explanation.

>
> 2#1#E8 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?-- an integer literal of value 256
>
> where the E prefixes a power-of-2 exponent, and can't be taken as a digit of
> the radix. ?That is to say
>
> 16#1#E2
>
> would also equal 256, since it's 1*16**2 .

Here's another suggested number literal format. First, keep the
familar 0x and 0b of C and others and to add 0t for octal. (T is the
third letter of octal as X is the third letter of hex.) The numbers
above would be

  0b1011, 0t7621, 0xc26b

Second, allow an arbitrary number base by putting base and number in
quotes after a zero as in

  0"2:1011", 0"8:7621", 0"16:c26b"

This would work for arbitrary bases and allows an exponent to be
tagged on the end. It only depends on zero followed by a quote mark
not being used elsewhere. Finally, although it uses a colon it doesn't
take it away from being used elsewhere in the language.

Another option:

  0.(2:1011), 0.(8:7621), 0.(16:c26b)

where the three characters "0.(" begin the sequence.

Comments? Improvements?

James


From james.harris.1 at googlemail.com  Sun Aug 23 17:45:39 2009
From: james.harris.1 at googlemail.com (James Harris)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 14:45:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
References:  
	
	 
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com> 
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	<4a90b50e.154654859@text.giganews.com>
	<9411f79a-934f-494c-93bc-dc020646f281@z24g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On 23 Aug, 21:55, James Harris  wrote:

...

> > ?However for floating point you
> > need at least three letters because a floating point number has
> > three parts: the fixed point point, the exponent base, and the
> > exponent. ?Now we can represent the radices of the individual
> > parts with the 'r'scheme, e.g., 2r101001, but we need separate
> > letters to designate the exponent base and the exponent. ?B and E
> > are the obvious choices, though we want to be careful about a
> > confusion with 'b' in hex. ?For example, using 'R',
>
> > 3R20.1B2E16Rac
>
> Ooh err!
>
> > is 20.1 in trinary (6 1/3) times 2**172 (hex ac).
>
> > I grant that this example looks a bit gobbledegookish,
>
> You think? :-)
>
> > but normal
> > usage would be much simpler. ?The notation doesn't handle
> > balanced trinary; however I opine that balanced trinary requires
> > special notation.
>
> When the programmer needs to construct such values how about allowing
> him or her to specify something like
>
> ? (20.1 in base 3) times 2 to the power of 0xac
>
> Leaving out how to specify (20.1 in base 3) for now this could be
>
> ? (20.1 in base 3) * 2 ** 0xac

Using the suggestion from another post would convert this to

  0.(3:20.1) * 2 ** 0xac

>
> The compiler could convert this to a constant.



From phily05 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 17:51:32 2009
From: phily05 at gmail.com (Phil)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 14:51:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: __import__(x) VS __import__(x, {}, {}, [''])
Message-ID: 

I am trying to understand the difference between __import__(x) and
__import__(x, {}, {}, ['']).

The documentations wording was a bit weird for me to understand:
"The standard implementation does not use its locals argument at all,
and uses its globals only to determine the package context of the
import statement."

Does that mean it passes in the globals by default, or does the above
statement stand true only if globals() is passed in?


From mwilson at the-wire.com  Sun Aug 23 18:05:44 2009
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 18:05:44 -0400
Subject: conditional for-statement
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

seb wrote:

> On Aug 23, 6:18 pm, John Posner  wrote:
[ ... ]
>> How about using a generator expression instead of a list?
>>
>> for i in (x for x in range(10) if x > 5):
>> print i
>>
>> -John
> 
> Indeed, but we could have the same syntax than for generators but
> directly in the for statement as in
> for variable in generator if condition:
>     body
> 
> Is there a special reason for not doing so ? A rejected PEP ?

Well, the Zen of Python does say

There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it.

Beyond that, I refer you to Gerald M. Weinberg's _The Psychology of Computer 
Programming_, specifically chapters 11 and 12, about Programming Languages, 
and their design.

The proposal creates an case where one particular pair of syntactic 
constructs can be mooshed together.  OK for them, but everything else 
becomes an exception; what about

while a==c if b != d:

why not

if b != d while a==c:

or

for a in range(7) if os.name == 'posix':


It winds up burdening the programmers with remembering which constructs are 
and which are not mooshable.  Weinberg gave an example: FORTRAN had some 
stringent rules for what expressions were and were not allowed as array 
subscripts.  The result was that many programmers couldn't remember all the 
rules, and often avoided using legal forms, having forgotten they were 
legal.

Maybe the line was already crossed when list comprehensions came into being, 
still, the damage is localized in a particular context: building a list.  It 
isn't out creating wild options in the program control flow at large.

	Mel.




From voodoorai2000 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 18:07:31 2009
From: voodoorai2000 at gmail.com (Raimond Garcia)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 00:07:31 +0200
Subject: What is the recommended library for xml parsing?
Message-ID: 

Is there a good build in library or should I use a third party one?
Cheers,

Peter
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From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sun Aug 23 18:15:55 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 23:15:55 +0100
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
		
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>		
	
Message-ID: <4A91BF9B.9080100@mrabarnett.plus.com>

James Harris wrote:
> On 23 Aug, 00:16, Mel  wrote:
>> James Harris wrote:
>>> I have no idea why Ada which uses the # also apparently uses it to end
>>> a number
>>>   2#1011#, 8#7621#, 16#c26b#
>> Interesting.  They do it because of this example from
>> :
> 
> Thanks for providing an explanation.
> 
>> 2#1#E8                    -- an integer literal of value 256
>>
>> where the E prefixes a power-of-2 exponent, and can't be taken as a digit of
>> the radix.  That is to say
>>
>> 16#1#E2
>>
>> would also equal 256, since it's 1*16**2 .
> 
> Here's another suggested number literal format. First, keep the
> familar 0x and 0b of C and others and to add 0t for octal. (T is the
> third letter of octal as X is the third letter of hex.) The numbers
> above would be
> 
>   0b1011, 0t7621, 0xc26b
> 
> Second, allow an arbitrary number base by putting base and number in
> quotes after a zero as in
> 
>   0"2:1011", 0"8:7621", 0"16:c26b"
> 
Why not just put the base first, followed by the value in quotes:

     2"1011", 8"7621", 16"c26b"

> This would work for arbitrary bases and allows an exponent to be
> tagged on the end. It only depends on zero followed by a quote mark
> not being used elsewhere. Finally, although it uses a colon it doesn't
> take it away from being used elsewhere in the language.
> 
> Another option:
> 
>   0.(2:1011), 0.(8:7621), 0.(16:c26b)
> 
> where the three characters "0.(" begin the sequence.
> 
> Comments? Improvements?
> 


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Aug 23 18:44:01 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 23 Aug 2009 15:44:01 -0700
Subject: logging SMTPhandler Error
References: 
	<60de8d40-61f4-4ffd-bcef-749bf06675d0@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
Dennis Lee Bieber   wrote:
>On 23 Aug 2009 06:14:00 -0700, aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) declaimed the
>following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>>
>> Slightly expanded: most mail servers accept connections from any other
>> mail server for addresses that are hosted by them.  The MX address for a
>> domain tells you what mail server hosts that address.  By connecting
>> directly to the MX, your script is essentially acting as a mail server
>> itself.
>
>	But is not possible if one's ISP blocks pass-through SMTP
>connections.

Correct, but the OP said that zir ISP did not have a mailserver; AFAIK
all ISPs that block SMTP have their own mailserver that you can point at
instead.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I support family values -- Addams family values" --www.nancybuttons.com


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Sun Aug 23 18:50:29 2009
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 15:50:29 -0700
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

James Harris wrote:...
> Another option:
> 
>   0.(2:1011), 0.(8:7621), 0.(16:c26b)
> 
> where the three characters "0.(" begin the sequence.
> 
> Comments? Improvements?

I did a little interpreter where non-base 10 numbers
(up to base 36) were:

     .7.100   == 64  (octal)
     .9.100   == 100 (decimal)
     .F.100   == 256 (hexadecimal)
     .1.100   == 4   (binary)
     .3.100   == 9   (trinary)
     .Z.100   == 46656 (base 36)
Advantages:
Tokenizer can recognize chunks easily.
Not visually too confusing,
No issue of what base the base indicator is expressed in.

--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sun Aug 23 18:59:35 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 15:59:35 -0700
Subject: What is the recommended library for xml parsing?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908231559vf6c42dcn321296edd7d033b7@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 3:07 PM, Raimond Garcia wrote:
> Is there a good build in library or should I use a third party one?

xml.etree.ElementTree:
http://docs.python.org/library/xml.etree.elementtree.html

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From bartc at freeuk.com  Sun Aug 23 19:04:37 2009
From: bartc at freeuk.com (bartc)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 23:04:37 GMT
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal
	notation
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: <9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com>


"Scott David Daniels"  wrote in message 
news:kN2dnSZR5b0BWAzXnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d at pdx.net...
> James Harris wrote:...
>> Another option:
>>
>>   0.(2:1011), 0.(8:7621), 0.(16:c26b)
>>
>> where the three characters "0.(" begin the sequence.
>>
>> Comments? Improvements?
>
> I did a little interpreter where non-base 10 numbers
> (up to base 36) were:
>
>     .7.100   == 64  (octal)
>     .9.100   == 100 (decimal)
>     .F.100   == 256 (hexadecimal)
>     .1.100   == 4   (binary)
>     .3.100   == 9   (trinary)
>     .Z.100   == 46656 (base 36)
> Advantages:
> Tokenizer can recognize chunks easily.
> Not visually too confusing,
> No issue of what base the base indicator is expressed in.

It can be assumed however that .9. isn't in binary?

That's a neat idea. But an even simpler scheme might be:

.octal.100
.decimal.100
.hex.100
.binary.100
.trinary.100

until it gets to this anyway:

.thiryseximal.100

-- 
Bartc 



From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Sun Aug 23 19:04:55 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 23:04:55 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename: in
	=?utf-8?b?d2luZG93cwl4cA==?= while making tarfile
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

Erik Max Francis  alcyone.com> writes:

> 
> Ryniek90 wrote:

> > Is its the '|\U' literal fault in path '|C:\\Users\\Ryniek's 
> > WinSe7en\\MyNewGGBackup(2009-08-23 14:59:02).tar.bz2|' ?

What is "the '|\U' literal fault" ???

> 
> It's probably a misleading error from the OS; I would guess the problem 
> is that the filename contains colons, which I believe is a no-no on Windows.

The colons are the problem. The error message is not from the OS; it is
concocted by Python (see fileobject.c) as what appears to be the best possible
text given  vague error reporting by Windows. I don't understand "probably a
misleading error [message]" -- invalid mode (actual value) or filename ->
invalid something-obviously-not-invalid or filename -> invalid filename



From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Sun Aug 23 19:17:19 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 16:17:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
	 
	
Message-ID: 

On 23 Aug, 20:42, n... at cam.ac.uk wrote:

> That is precisely what I am investigating. ?TR 29113 falls a LONG
> way before it gets to any of the OOP data - indeed, you can't even
> pass OOP derived types as pure data (without even the functionality)
> in its model. ?Nor most of what else Python would expect.

I am note sure what you mean. This has the same ABI:

typedef struct {
    int m, n;
    float r;
} myctype;


use iso_c_binding
type, bind(c) :: myftype
    integer(c_int) :: m, n
    real(c_float) :: s
end type

You thus can pass derived types between C and Fortran.











From mattaman at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 19:27:21 2009
From: mattaman at gmail.com (mm)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 16:27:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Newbie: list comprehension troubles..
Message-ID: 

Hi, I'm trying to replace this...

        # this works but there must be a more pythonic way, right?
        tlist = []
        for obj in self.objs:
            t = obj.intersect(ray)
            if (t != None):
                tlist.append((obj,t))

with a list comprehension- can it be done?

What I need to do is iterate over a list of graphics primitives and
call their intersect method. If the returned t value is not None then
I want to store the obj refernence and its t value in a list of tuples
for further processing. I've tried stuff like ...

        tlist = [(obj,t) for obj,t in (self.objs, obj.intersect(ray))
if (t != None)]
        tlist = [(obj,t) for obj in self.objs for t in obj.intersect
(ray) ]
        print ">>> ",len(tlist), tlist

but they don't work. Any help greatly appreciated. matt


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sun Aug 23 19:36:02 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 16:36:02 -0700
Subject: Newbie: list comprehension troubles..
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908231636l77357d21icca87edf2248f15d@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 4:27 PM, mm wrote:
> Hi, I'm trying to replace this...
>
> ? ? ? ?# this works but there must be a more pythonic way, right?
> ? ? ? ?tlist = []
> ? ? ? ?for obj in self.objs:
> ? ? ? ? ? ?t = obj.intersect(ray)
> ? ? ? ? ? ?if (t != None):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?tlist.append((obj,t))
>
> with a list comprehension- can it be done?

Yes:
tlist = [pair for pair in ((obj, obj.intersect(ray)) for obj in
self.objs) if pair[1] is not None]

Should it be done? Probably not. It's less readable and less efficient.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Sun Aug 23 19:59:34 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 16:59:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
	 
	
	
Message-ID: <277abf44-d218-45de-90c8-9bed0f1c8abf@k30g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>

On 24 Aug, 00:02, Dennis Lee Bieber  wrote:

> ? ? ? ? That's a C language problem -- since a string in C is just an array
> of character. The last FORTRAN dialect (and implementation) I used
> passed strings

On 24 Aug, 00:02, Dennis Lee Bieber  wrote:

> values -- FORTRAN strings were typically static, the called function
> could not reallocate to fit in longer data and update the descriptor to
> match)


It is possible to pass an arbitrary length. You have to convert a
pointer from C to Fortran:

subroutine foobar(cstr) bind(c, name='foobar')
    use, intrinsic :: iso_c_binding
    type(c_ptr) :: cstr
    character(*), pointer :: fstr
    call c_f_pointer(cptr, fptr)

If you need the length, call strlen from libc.

I think the OP has misunderstood how the Fortran 2003 C bindings work.
They don't convert C pointers to Fortran strings or Fortran arryas.
They convert C pointers to Fortran pointers.


Sturla










From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Aug 23 20:05:38 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:05:38 +0900
Subject: Newbie: list comprehension troubles..
In-Reply-To: <50697b2c0908231636l77357d21icca87edf2248f15d@mail.gmail.com>
References: 
	<50697b2c0908231636l77357d21icca87edf2248f15d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

Chris Rebert wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 4:27 PM, mm wrote:
>> Hi, I'm trying to replace this...
>>
>>        # this works but there must be a more pythonic way, right?

'Pythonic' is readable, if nothing else

>>        tlist = []
>>        for obj in self.objs:
>>            t = obj.intersect(ray)
>>            if (t != None):
>>                tlist.append((obj,t))

This, to me, is more readable than the lc replacement.

>>
>> with a list comprehension- can it be done?
> 
> Yes:
> tlist = [pair for pair in ((obj, obj.intersect(ray)) for obj in
> self.objs) if pair[1] is not None]
> 
> Should it be done? Probably not. It's less readable and less efficient.

I agree.

tjr



From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Sun Aug 23 20:06:43 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 17:06:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
	 
	
	 
	<277abf44-d218-45de-90c8-9bed0f1c8abf@k30g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On 24 Aug, 01:59, sturlamolden  wrote:

> subroutine foobar(cstr) bind(c, name='foobar')
> ? ? use, intrinsic :: iso_c_binding
> ? ? type(c_ptr) :: cstr
> ? ? character(*), pointer :: fstr
> ? ? call c_f_pointer(cptr, fptr)
>

Which means that you can write a wrapper in Fortran callable from C,
that calls a Fortran routine you want to expose:

subroutine wrap_foobar(cstr) bind(c, name='foobar')
    use, intrinsic :: iso_c_binding
    type(c_ptr) :: cstr
    character(*), pointer :: fstr
    call c_f_pointer(cptr, fptr)
    call foobar(fstr)
end subroutine

subroutine foobar(fstr)
    character(*) :: fstr
    ! whatever
end subroutine

This by the way is how wrap exposes Fortran functions to Cython.














From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sun Aug 23 20:09:29 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:09:29 +1000
Subject: Newbie: list comprehension troubles..
References: 
	
Message-ID: <87ab1qgjie.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Chris Rebert  writes:

> tlist = [pair for pair in ((obj, obj.intersect(ray)) for obj in
> self.objs) if pair[1] is not None]
>
> Should it be done? Probably not. [Compared to a ?for? suite with an
> ?if? suite, it's] less readable and less efficient.

I disagree on the ?less efficient?, unless you've measured it. The
Python compiler and machine make list comprehensions and generator
expressions turn into quite efficient code.

I also disagree on ?less readable?, if you show the structure and choose
meaningful names (I can only guess at the meaning from the OP's code)::

    tribbles = [
        (obj, tribble) for (obj, tribble) in (
            (obj, obj.intersect(ray))
            for obj in self.objs)
        if tribble is not None]

-- 
 \     ?I must say that I find television very educational. The minute |
  `\       somebody turns it on, I go to the library and read a book.? |
_o__)                                                    ?Groucho Marx |
Ben Finney


From find.mig at paa.google  Sun Aug 23 20:14:24 2009
From: find.mig at paa.google (Esben von Buchwald)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 02:14:24 +0200
Subject: Protecting against callbacks queuing up?
Message-ID: <4a91db65$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>

Hello

I'm using Python for S60 1.9.7 on my Nokia phone.

I've made a program that gets input from an accelerometer sensor, and 
then calculates some stuff and displays the result.

The sensor framework API does a callback to a function defined by me, 
every time new data is available.

The problem is, that sometimes, the calculations may take longer than 
others, but if the callback is called before the first calculation is 
done, it seems like it's queuing up all the callbacks, and execute them 
sequentially, afterwards.

What I need, is to simply ignore the callback, if the previous call 
hasn't finished it's operations before it's called again.

I thought that this code would do the trick, but it obviously doesn't 
help at all, and i can't understand why...

     def doCallback(self):
         if self.process_busy==False:
             self.process_busy=True
             self.data_callback()
             self.process_busy=False


doCallback is defined as a callback function for the accelerometer 
instance, and data_callback does some calculations and show them on the 
display of the phone.

What to do? Thanks...


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Aug 23 20:17:11 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 24 Aug 2009 00:17:11 GMT
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<4a918fe0$0$30226$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <02a1cc1d$0$30337$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 23 Aug 2009 20:52:16 +0200, Stefan Behnel wrote:

> Simon Brunning wrote:
>> 2009/8/11 Robert Dailey:
>>> On Aug 11, 3:40 pm, Bearophile wrote:
>>>> There are gals too here.
>>> It's a figure of speech. And besides, why would I want programming
>>> advice from a woman? lol. Thanks for the help.
>> 
>> Give the attitudes still prevalent in our industry (cf
>>  and many more), I'm sorry to say that I
>> don't think this is funny.
> 
> Me neither.
> 
> I used to reply with comments like "you just missed more than half of
> the world's population" to people who started their postings with "hi
> guys!", 

If you start your post with "Hi guys", you've missed more than EIGHTY 
percent of the world's population, namely the 5.5 to 6 billion people who 
speak no English. To say nothing of the 99.9% of the world's population 
who couldn't help you with your query, even if they spoke English, and 
even if they were on the Internet.

In that case, missing out on the small percentage of English-speaking 
women who don't know that "guys" has become sexless probably doesn't 
matter.

(I'm amused and somewhat perplexed that somebody with the non-English 
name of Stefan, writing from a .de email address, seems to be assuming 
that (1) everybody is on the Internet, and (2) everybody on the Internet 
speaks English. Awareness of sexism is a good thing, but so is awareness 
of cultural chauvinism.)



> and I stopped doing that as a) it became too tiring, especially
> on a potentially-for-newbees group like c.l.py, and b) to many people it
> actually *is* a figure of speech.
> 
> But reading statements like the above really makes me feel that it's
> best to comment even on simple things like "hi guys!".

Or you could enter the 21 century and understand that "guys" has become a 
generic term for people of any sex.




-- 
Steven


From nospam at see.signature  Sun Aug 23 20:26:31 2009
From: nospam at see.signature (Richard Maine)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 17:26:31 -0700
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: <1j4ww90.pvvxweehycu0N%nospam@see.signature>

sturlamolden  wrote:

> On 23 Aug, 20:42, n... at cam.ac.uk wrote:
> 
> > That is precisely what I am investigating.  TR 29113 falls a LONG
> > way before it gets to any of the OOP data - indeed, you can't even
> > pass OOP derived types as pure data (without even the functionality)
> > in its model.  Nor most of what else Python would expect.
> 
> I am note sure what you mean. ...
> You thus can pass derived types between C and Fortran.

You missed the word "OOP", which seemed like the whole point. Not that
the particular word is used in the Fortran standard, but it isn't hard
to guess that he means a derived type that uses some of the OOP
features. Inheritance, polymorphism, and type-bound procedure (aka
methods in some other languages) come to mind. Since you say that you
haven't used any of the F2003 OOP features, it isn't too surprising that
you'd miss the allusion.

-- 
Richard Maine                    | Good judgment comes from experience;
email: last name at domain . net | experience comes from bad judgment.
domain: summertriangle           |  -- Mark Twain


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sun Aug 23 20:34:41 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 01:34:41 +0100
Subject: Protecting against callbacks queuing up?
In-Reply-To: <4a91db65$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
References: <4a91db65$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
Message-ID: <4A91E021.1040502@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Esben von Buchwald wrote:
> Hello
> 
> I'm using Python for S60 1.9.7 on my Nokia phone.
> 
> I've made a program that gets input from an accelerometer sensor, and 
> then calculates some stuff and displays the result.
> 
> The sensor framework API does a callback to a function defined by me, 
> every time new data is available.
> 
> The problem is, that sometimes, the calculations may take longer than 
> others, but if the callback is called before the first calculation is 
> done, it seems like it's queuing up all the callbacks, and execute them 
> sequentially, afterwards.
> 
> What I need, is to simply ignore the callback, if the previous call 
> hasn't finished it's operations before it's called again.
> 
> I thought that this code would do the trick, but it obviously doesn't 
> help at all, and i can't understand why...
> 
>     def doCallback(self):
>         if self.process_busy==False:
>             self.process_busy=True
>             self.data_callback()
>             self.process_busy=False
> 
> 
> doCallback is defined as a callback function for the accelerometer 
> instance, and data_callback does some calculations and show them on the 
> display of the phone.
> 
If it is, in fact, queuing the callbacks then that means that it's just
recording that the callback needs to be called, but doesn't actually do
it while a previous one is in effect, ie it'll wait for the current call
to return before doing the next one.

> What to do? Thanks...

If you want to try multithreading you could make the callback just
trigger the actual action in another thread. The other thread could wait
for an event, perform the calculation, then clear any pending events
before waiting again.


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Sun Aug 23 20:39:34 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 17:39:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
	 
	
	
	<1j4ww90.pvvxweehycu0N%nospam@see.signature>
Message-ID: <5134d9f1-0e23-4e05-a817-bf0cc9e85d3e@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>

On 24 Aug, 02:26, nos... at see.signature (Richard Maine) wrote:

> You missed the word "OOP", which seemed like the whole point. Not that
> the particular word is used in the Fortran standard, but it isn't hard
> to guess that he means a derived type that uses some of the OOP
> features. Inheritance, polymorphism, and type-bound procedure (aka
> methods in some other languages) come to mind.

But C is not OOP. The ISO C bindings in Fortran are not ISO C++
bindings. This is for a reason: C++ does not have a standard ABI like
ISO C.



From david.lyon at preisshare.net  Sun Aug 23 20:46:12 2009
From: david.lyon at preisshare.net (David Lyon)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 20:46:12 -0400
Subject: install package in a particular python version
In-Reply-To: <99822c4d-74ef-4a28-b133-42144c7fd25a@f20g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
References: <4ae493d4-4669-4e54-a385-6d79d539a778@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	<99822c4d-74ef-4a28-b133-42144c7fd25a@f20g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0e4f0ed1c46760d844a603fae3ebc3a3@preisshare.net>

On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 20:53:18 -0700 (PDT), Steve1234 
wrote:
> Benjamin suggested:
> sudo python2.5 setup.py install
> and it works.  This makes sense, thanks.
> 
> I downloaded pythonpkgmgr from source and installed it.  I got the
> error that reguired wx package was missing.  I couldn't find this
> package for Linux or source.

That's wxpython.

You'll need to look at http://www.wxpython.org/download.php#binaries

David




From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sun Aug 23 20:52:47 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 17:52:47 -0700
Subject: Newbie: list comprehension troubles..
In-Reply-To: <87ab1qgjie.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: 
	
	<87ab1qgjie.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908231752h2ec893fal92a9dc2d8a8d6aba@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 5:09 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
> Chris Rebert  writes:
>
>> tlist = [pair for pair in ((obj, obj.intersect(ray)) for obj in
>> self.objs) if pair[1] is not None]
>>
>> Should it be done? Probably not. [Compared to a ?for? suite with an
>> ?if? suite, it's] less readable and less efficient.
>
> I disagree on the ?less efficient?, unless you've measured it. The
> Python compiler and machine make list comprehensions and generator
> expressions turn into quite efficient code.

Well, I hadn't benchmarked it originally, but since you bring it up:

class Foo(object):
    def __init__(self, n):
        self.n = n
    def intersect(self, ray):
        return ray + self.n

objs = [Foo(n) for n in range(300)]
ray = 42


def listcomp(objs, ray):
    tlist = [pair for pair in ((obj, obj.intersect(ray)) for obj in
objs) if pair[1] is not None]

def naive(objs, ray):
    tlist = []
    for obj in objs:
        t = obj.intersect(ray)
        if t is not None:
            tlist.append((obj,t))

chris at morpheus Desktop $ python
Python 2.6.2 (r262:71600, May 14 2009, 16:34:51)
[GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Inc. build 5484)] on darwin
chris at morpheus Desktop $ python -m timeit -n 10000 -s 'from tmp import
naive, ray, objs' 'naive(objs, ray)'
10000 loops, best of 3: 227 usec per loop
chris at morpheus Desktop $ python -m timeit -n 10000 -s 'from tmp import
listcomp, ray, objs' 'listcomp(objs, ray)'
10000 loops, best of 3: 254 usec per loop

The numbers for each test stayed within a few usec of each other over
a few runs. I thus conclude that the list comprehension method is
indeed slower (which makes sense looking at the 2 algorithms).

> I also disagree on ?less readable?, if you show the structure and choose
> meaningful names (I can only guess at the meaning from the OP's code)::
>
> ? ?tribbles = [
> ? ? ? ?(obj, tribble) for (obj, tribble) in (
> ? ? ? ? ? ?(obj, obj.intersect(ray))
> ? ? ? ? ? ?for obj in self.objs)
> ? ? ? ?if tribble is not None]

I do concede it becomes somewhat more readable if split over multiple lines:

pairs = ((obj, obj.intersect(ray)) for obj in self.objs)
tlist = [pair for pair in pairs if pair[1] is not None]

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From nospam at see.signature  Sun Aug 23 20:57:52 2009
From: nospam at see.signature (Richard Maine)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 17:57:52 -0700
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
	
	
	
	<1j4ww90.pvvxweehycu0N%nospam@see.signature>
	<5134d9f1-0e23-4e05-a817-bf0cc9e85d3e@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1j4wx7d.18cr6dvw3j79yN%nospam@see.signature>

sturlamolden  wrote:

> On 24 Aug, 02:26, nos... at see.signature (Richard Maine) wrote:
> 
> > You missed the word "OOP", which seemed like the whole point. Not that
> > the particular word is used in the Fortran standard, but it isn't hard
> > to guess that he means a derived type that uses some of the OOP
> > features. Inheritance, polymorphism, and type-bound procedure (aka
> > methods in some other languages) come to mind.
> 
> But C is not OOP. The ISO C bindings in Fortran are not ISO C++
> bindings. This is for a reason: C++ does not have a standard ABI like
> ISO C.

That seems irrelevant to the question originally asked, which was

>>> Do you want to use Fortran derived types or Python classes that
>>> contain type-bound procedures (including finalizers)?

Yes, it is no surprise that the C interop stuff fails to address this,
since it isn't in C. Something different/extra would be needed, which is
exactly what Nick said. I'm going to jump out of the middle of this now.
The only reason I jumped in was to point out the gap in communication,
where Nick said that the TR doesn't handle "OOP derived types" and you
replied that it does so do derived types, omitting the OOP part, which
was clearly (to me) Nick's whole point.

However, I don't seem to be facilitating the communication, as the
replies just seem to be wandering farther afield, or maybe it is around
in a circle. I think you just explained that the ISO C bindings in
Fortran don't handle what Nick is asking about... but that somehow this
makes it puzzling that Nick also says that they don't handle it. Well,
I'll leave it to Nick and you, I guess. I'm lost.

-- 
Richard Maine                    | Good judgment comes from experience;
email: last name at domain . net | experience comes from bad judgment.
domain: summertriangle           |  -- Mark Twain


From maxerickson at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 21:19:53 2009
From: maxerickson at gmail.com (Max Erickson)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 01:19:53 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal
	notation
References: 
	
	
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
	
	
	<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com>
Message-ID: 

"bartc"  wrote:

> 
> "Scott David Daniels"  wrote in message 
> news:kN2dnSZR5b0BWAzXnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d at pdx.net...
>> James Harris wrote:...
>>> Another option:
> 
> It can be assumed however that .9. isn't in binary?
> 
> That's a neat idea. But an even simpler scheme might be:
> 
> .octal.100
> .decimal.100
> .hex.100
> .binary.100
> .trinary.100
> 
> until it gets to this anyway:
> 
> .thiryseximal.100
> 

At some point, abandoning direct support for literals and just 
having a function that can handle different bases starts to make a 
lot of sense to me:

>>> int('100', 8)
64
>>> int('100', 10)
100
>>> int('100', 16)
256
>>> int('100', 2)
4
>>> int('100', 3)
9
>>> int('100', 36)
1296


max



From voodoorai2000 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 21:25:11 2009
From: voodoorai2000 at gmail.com (Raimond Garcia)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 03:25:11 +0200
Subject: What is the recommended library for xml parsing?
In-Reply-To: <50697b2c0908231559vf6c42dcn321296edd7d033b7@mail.gmail.com>
References: 
	<50697b2c0908231559vf6c42dcn321296edd7d033b7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

+1

::results::

Cheers,

Peter Petrelli



On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 12:59 AM, Chris Rebert  wrote:

> On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 3:07 PM, Raimond Garcia
> wrote:
> > Is there a good build in library or should I use a third party one?
>
> xml.etree.ElementTree:
> http://docs.python.org/library/xml.etree.elementtree.html
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --
> http://blog.rebertia.com
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

From bot at letsdecide.us  Sun Aug 23 21:27:04 2009
From: bot at letsdecide.us (bot at letsdecide.us)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 01:27:04 +0000
Subject: What is the recommended library for xml parsing?
Message-ID: <4a91ec68908f7_7144..fdbe3c0dc13e@li86-209.tmail>

voodoorai2000 on gmail.com has asked me for the current status of our votation.. so here you go:

+1 => 1 vote
-1 => 0 votes

Time Line:
----------
(2009-08-24 01:25:11) Raimond Garcia: +1

Visit the fancy votation page:
* http://letsdecide.us/4130bc4e0051016cb377d3436f4e8e683ed820ed


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Sun Aug 23 21:28:24 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 18:28:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
	 
	
	 
	<277abf44-d218-45de-90c8-9bed0f1c8abf@k30g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <310696bd-f51e-42bc-80cf-89a2a9e04c0c@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On 24 Aug, 01:59, sturlamolden  wrote:

> subroutine foobar(cstr) bind(c, name='foobar')
> ? ? use, intrinsic :: iso_c_binding
> ? ? type(c_ptr) :: cstr
> ? ? character(*), pointer :: fstr
> ? ? call c_f_pointer(cptr, fptr)

Actually, this does not work, as it is illegal to create a pointer to
a character(*). However, we can create a pointer to a huge string (say
2 GB or whatever maximum the system allows), and slice that down to a
substring using strlen to obtain the length. So here is how to pass a
variable-length string from C to Fortran, tested with gcc and gfortran
4.1.1.


In foobar.f03:

subroutine wrap_foobar(cstr) bind(c, name='foobar')

    ! a wrapper for foobar we expose to C

    use, intrinsic :: iso_c_binding

    interface
        function strlen(cstr) bind(c, name='strlen')
           use, intrinsic :: iso_c_binding
           integer(c_int) :: strlen
           type(c_ptr), value :: cstr
        end function strlen
    end interface

    type(c_ptr), value :: cstr
    character(2147483647), pointer :: p_fstr
    integer :: n

    n = strlen(cstr)
    call c_f_pointer(cstr, p_fstr)
    call foobar(p_fstr(1:n))

end subroutine


subroutine foobar(fstr)
    ! this is the Fortran function we want to call from C
    ! it takes a variable length string as argument and print its
length
    character(*) :: fstr
    write (*,*) len(fstr)
end subroutine


In main.c:

extern void foobar(char *);

int main(int argc, char *argv[])
{
    foobar(argv[1]);
    return 0;
}






Sturla at STURLA-PC /d/fortrantest
$ gfortran -c foobar.f03

Sturla at STURLA-PC /d/fortrantest
$ gcc -c main.c

Sturla at STURLA-PC /d/fortrantest
$ gcc -o test.exe main.o foobar.o -lgfortran

Sturla at STURLA-PC /d/fortrantest
$ ./test 1234
           4

Sturla at STURLA-PC /d/fortrantest
$ ./test 0123456789
          10

So it works...




Regards,
Sturla Molden







From davea at ieee.org  Sun Aug 23 21:32:13 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:32:13 -0400
Subject: IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename: in windows
	xp while making tarfile
In-Reply-To: 
References: 		
	
Message-ID: <4A91ED9D.4090803@ieee.org>

John Machin wrote:
> Erik Max Francis  alcyone.com> writes:
>
>   
>> Ryniek90 wrote:
>>     
>
>   
>>> Is its the '|\U' literal fault in path '|C:\\Users\\Ryniek's 
>>> WinSe7en\\MyNewGGBackup(2009-08-23 14:59:02).tar.bz2|' ?
>>>       
>
> What is "the '|\U' literal fault" ???
>
>   
>> It's probably a misleading error from the OS; I would guess the problem 
>> is that the filename contains colons, which I believe is a no-no on Windows.
>>     
>
> The colons are the problem. The error message is not from the OS; it is
> concocted by Python (see fileobject.c) as what appears to be the best possible
> text given  vague error reporting by Windows. I don't understand "probably a
> misleading error [message]" -- invalid mode (actual value) or filename ->
> invalid something-obviously-not-invalid or filename -> invalid filename
>
>
>   
I also suspect the "pipe" symbol. I don't know if it's an invalid 
character to Windows, but it's certainly a bad idea.  The '|' character 
means something special to the shell.

DaveA



From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Sun Aug 23 21:40:06 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 18:40:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
	 
	
	
	<1j4ww90.pvvxweehycu0N%nospam@see.signature>
	<5134d9f1-0e23-4e05-a817-bf0cc9e85d3e@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1j4wx7d.18cr6dvw3j79yN%nospam@see.signature>
Message-ID: <800c6f66-7074-451f-8c1b-47c93d07c5a4@s13g2000yql.googlegroups.com>

On 24 Aug, 02:57, nos... at see.signature (Richard Maine) wrote:

> Yes, it is no surprise that the C interop stuff fails to address this,
> since it isn't in C. Something different/extra would be needed, which is
> exactly what Nick said. I'm going to jump out of the middle of this now.
> The only reason I jumped in was to point out the gap in communication,
> where Nick said that the TR doesn't handle "OOP derived types" and you
> replied that it does so do derived types, omitting the OOP part, which
> was clearly (to me) Nick's whole point.

You are right, I missed th OOP part.

It might be interesting in teh future to say inherit a Python class
from a Fortran 2003 derived type. I have no idea how to do this (I
don't know Fortran 2003 that well). But possibly one could do some
magic with the ISO C bindings, exposing the Fortran 2003 derived type
as a C etxtension class to Python.

Does anyone use OOP in Fortran anyway? I sure do not. And Fortran 2003
compilers are not ubiquitous. Fortran compilers tend to support a
subset for Fortran 2003, usually ISO C bindings but not OOP.


Sturla




























From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Sun Aug 23 21:46:18 2009
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (greg)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 13:46:18 +1200
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
In-Reply-To: 
References: 			<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>		
	<87ljlahbn9.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
Message-ID: <7fe9mbF2l83bmU1@mid.individual.net>

J. Cliff Dyer wrote:

> What happens if you use a literal like 0x10f 304?

To me the obvious thing to do is concatenate them
textually and then treat the whole thing as a single
numeric literal. Anything else wouldn't be sane, IMO.

-- 
Greg


From nospam at see.signature  Sun Aug 23 21:58:40 2009
From: nospam at see.signature (Richard Maine)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 18:58:40 -0700
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
	
	
	
	<1j4ww90.pvvxweehycu0N%nospam@see.signature>
	<5134d9f1-0e23-4e05-a817-bf0cc9e85d3e@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1j4wx7d.18cr6dvw3j79yN%nospam@see.signature>
	<800c6f66-7074-451f-8c1b-47c93d07c5a4@s13g2000yql.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1j4x00p.nyarf2ce8dxcN%nospam@see.signature>

sturlamolden  wrote:

> Does anyone use OOP in Fortran anyway?

Presumably not many people yet because...

> And Fortran 2003 compilers are not ubiquitous.

I'd not only agree, I'd say that was quite a bit understated. Last time
I checked, the number of Fortran 2003 compilers available on the most
widely used platforms was zero, which is quite a bit short of
ubiquitous. No I don't have an IBM workstation handy; or a Cray. Nor do
most people.

I did try playing with the Fortran OOP stuff quite a few years ago, when
NAG first added some of the OOP features to their f95 compiler. But
alas, although they added some of the OOP features, there were critical
parts that were not included. Play with it a little is all I could do. I
couldn't write any serious code, or even "play" very extensively. (Lack
of allocatable scalars was a show stopper; it seems so simple and isn't
even normally identified as an OOP feature per se, but you need it to do
much with OOP in F2003).

I'm told that NAG's 5.2 finally has the needed stuff, but it has been an
awful long time in coming... and still isn't yet here for anything but
Linux (I'm told "soon"). Some other compilers are also getting there.
But there is just no way that most people have spent much time
developing with compilers that adequately supported the f2003 OOP
features.

(I'd cite my formal comment on f2008, and maybe David Muxworthy's recent
article as well, but we've already been down that path.)

-- 
Richard Maine                    | Good judgment comes from experience;
email: last name at domain . net | experience comes from bad judgment.
domain: summertriangle           |  -- Mark Twain


From davea at ieee.org  Sun Aug 23 22:05:42 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 22:05:42 -0400
Subject: Is Python what I need?
In-Reply-To: <224ed882-b78e-4b75-afa8-35c907096469@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
References: <224ed882-b78e-4b75-afa8-35c907096469@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A91F576.30707@ieee.org>

newbie wrote:
> Hi all
> I'm interested in developing computer based, interactive programs for
> students in a special school who have an aversion to pen and paper.
> I've searched the net to find ready made software that will meet my
> needs but it is either written to a level much higher than these
> students can cope with or priced beyond our school budget. I came
> across a blog of someone singing the praises of Python. My question is
> therefore aimed at those that know what they are talking about (ie
> users in this group). Is Python the language I need to learn to
> develop these programs?
>
>   
I think I'm a bit confused as to just what you're intending, and what 
your background is.  So if this response doesn't fit, please don't be 
offended.

I'm guessing you don't want these special students to do any 
programming, but instead you just want to find/develop inexpensive 
applications for their use.  You have some specific ideas, but haven't 
found anything already available within your budget.

I'm also guessing that you're a total beginner at programming.  If so, I 
claim that most programs are much, much harder to write than you can 
imagine.  Python is one of the easiest languages to learn and to write 
things in, but even so, most  GUI programs take hundreds of hours to 
develop.  And I've been doing it for forty years, in about 30 languages.

DaveA



From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Sun Aug 23 22:10:12 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 02:10:12 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename: in
	=?utf-8?b?d2luZG93cwl4cA==?= while making tarfile
References: 		
	
	<4A91ED9D.4090803@ieee.org>
Message-ID: 

Dave Angel  ieee.org> writes:

 
> John Machin wrote:
> > Erik Max Francis  alcyone.com> writes:
  
> I also suspect the "pipe" symbol. I don't know if it's an invalid 
> character to Windows, but it's certainly a bad idea.  The '|' character 
> means something special to the shell.

The "pipe" character is not a valid character in a Windows file.
Despite the OP's message wrapping the filename in "pipes",
there are no pipes in the filename in the traceback to
which he posted a link.  Wrapping the filename in "pipes"
and the cryptic reference to "the '|\U' literal fault"
appear to be side-issue bogglements.

 >>> open('boggle|txt', 'wb')
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "", line 1, in 
 IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename: 'boggle|txt'
 >>> open('|boggle.txt|', 'wb')
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "", line 1, in 
 IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename: '|boggle.txt|'




From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Sun Aug 23 22:28:10 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 19:28:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is python faster than java?
References:  
	
Message-ID: 

On 23 Aug, 21:59, Emile van Sebille  wrote:

> Speed of what? Development? User interaction? Responsiveness to queries?


My personal view on the 'Is Python faster than Java' question:

- Coding? Yes, if you program 'pythonic'.

- String handling? Often.

- I/O and networking? Often.

- Iteration? No.

- Function calls and recursion? No.

- Arithmetics with elemental types? No.

- Numerics? Yes, if you use NumPy.

Is never interesting which language generates the most efficient code.
If that were the case, we would be writing everything in assembly. If
the code is fast enough, it is fast enough. Fast enough is sufficient.

If some part of the code turn out to be too slow, we have two options:
Either we use faster hardware, which is often the cheapest solution.
Or we can alternatively try to move that part to something less high-
level (Cython, C, C++, Fortran, assembly). Unlike Java, Python
integrates easily with C.

Also beware that Python is not Java: There is an old saying that you
can write FORTRAN in any language. You can also write Java in Python.
It will be just as slow to program as Java, and it will run a lot
slower than Java. Most of the complaints about 'Python being slow'
stems from people writing Java in Python.









From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sun Aug 23 22:29:20 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 12:29:20 +1000
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal
	notation
References: 
	
	
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
	
	
	<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com>
	
Message-ID: <8763cegd1b.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Max Erickson  writes:

> At some point, abandoning direct support for literals and just 
> having a function that can handle different bases starts to make a 
> lot of sense to me:
>
> >>> int('100', 8)
> 64
> >>> int('100', 10)
> 100
> >>> int('100', 16)
> 256
> >>> int('100', 2)
> 4
> >>> int('100', 3)
> 9
> >>> int('100', 36)
> 1296

Hah! You don't get me that easily, nobody would make something so simple
and obvious.

Right, guys?

-- 
 \       ?When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold to the masses |
  `\    over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and |
_o__)                    its speaker a raving lunatic.? ?Dresden James |
Ben Finney


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Sun Aug 23 22:34:41 2009
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (greg)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:34:41 +1200
Subject: __import__(x) VS __import__(x, {}, {}, [''])
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7fech5F2kofoqU1@mid.individual.net>

Phil wrote:
> I am trying to understand the difference between __import__(x) and
> __import__(x, {}, {}, ['']).
> 
> The documentations wording was a bit weird for me to understand:
> "The standard implementation does not use its locals argument at all,
> and uses its globals only to determine the package context of the
> import statement."
 >
 > Does that mean it passes in the globals by default, or does the above
 > statement stand true only if globals() is passed in?

Not sure what you mean by "it" in that question.

This is talking about the built-in implementation of
the __import__ function, and what it does with the
'globals' and 'locals' arguments that get passed to
it (by whatever means).

If you call it without a value for 'globals', it uses
the current value of globals().

The bytecode generated for the 'import' statement
always calls it with the current globals() and locals().

If you pass an empty dict for 'globals', I think the
effect will be to cause the module name to always be
interpreted as a top-level module (i.e. no relative
import). But I'm not sure.

-- 
Greg


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Sun Aug 23 22:45:25 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 12:45:25 +1000
Subject: Literal concatenation,
	strings vs. numbers (was: Numeric literals in other than base 10 -
	was Annoying octal notation)
References: 
	
	
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	 <87ljlahbn9.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
	<7fe9mbF2l83bmU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <871vn2gcai.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>

greg  writes:

> J. Cliff Dyer wrote:
>
> > What happens if you use a literal like 0x10f 304?
>
> To me the obvious thing to do is concatenate them textually and then
> treat the whole thing as a single numeric literal. Anything else
> wouldn't be sane, IMO.

Yet, as was pointed out, that behaviour would be inconsistent with the
concatenation of string literals::

    >>> "abc" r'def' u"ghi" 'jkl'
    u'abcdefghijkl'

So, different representations of literals are parsed as separate
literals, then concatenated. To have the behaviour you describe, the
case needs to be made separately that digit concatenation should not be
consistent with the established string literal parsing behaviour.

-- 
 \        ?What if the Hokey Pokey IS what it's all about?? ?anonymous |
  `\                                                                   |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From phily05 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 22:58:42 2009
From: phily05 at gmail.com (Phil)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 19:58:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: __import__(x) VS __import__(x, {}, {}, [''])
References: 
	<7fech5F2kofoqU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <7d34f960-39a2-4447-9879-77a2794266a0@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

"If you call it without a value for 'globals', it uses the current
value of globals()."

Thanks, this is what I was trying to ask. I typed my question up way
too fast before dinner. You've been great help.


From kerensaelise at hotmail.com  Sun Aug 23 23:51:00 2009
From: kerensaelise at hotmail.com (elsa)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 20:51:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: sgmllib.py
Message-ID: 

Hi all,

I'm new to both this forum and Python, and I've got a bit stuck trying
to learn how to parse HTML.... here is my problem

I'm using a textbook that uses sgmllib.py for all its examples. I'm
aware that sgmllib is not in the current release, however I want to
get it to work, as I have python 2.5, and the text book uses it.

So, the first example says to type something like (to test the
sgmllib):

python sgmllib.py "path/to/my/file.html"  .... example (1)

this doesn't work for me. I think I have figured out the problem  -
the error says

"/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/Resources/
Python.app/Contents/MacOS/Python: can't open file 'sgmllib.py': [Errno
2] No such file or directory"

the problem is that this path is wrong. My sgmllib.py is in:

"/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/
python2.5/sgmllib.py"

if I substitute this path for sgmllib.py in example (1), everything
works fine. However, I don't want to do all that typing everytime I
want to use sgmllib.py. So, I thought maybe the problem was with
PYTHONPATH. I executed the following command:

export PYTHONPATH=/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/
2.5/li/python2.5:$PYTHONPATH

this seemed to work - no errors raised. However, when I retyped
example (1), I got the same original error.

Any assistance would be much appreciated. I'm working on max os x
leopard.

Thanks,

elsa


From doron.tal.list at gmail.com  Sun Aug 23 23:51:05 2009
From: doron.tal.list at gmail.com (Doron Tal)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 06:51:05 +0300
Subject: Most "active" coroutine library project?
In-Reply-To: <64183b73-9cb0-4ce1-98d0-f47e13a818e4@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <64183b73-9cb0-4ce1-98d0-f47e13a818e4@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2a8674c60908232051p71e743d0g9136ff2672e846f9@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 6:02 PM, Phillip B Oldham
wrote:

> I've been taking a look at the multitude of coroutine libraries
> available for Python, but from the looks of the projects they all seem
> to be rather "quiet". I'd like to pick one up to use on a current
> project but can't deduce which is the most popular/has the largest
> community.
>
> Libraries I looked at include: cogen, weightless, eventlet and
> circuits (which isn't exactly coroutine-based but it's event-driven
> model was intriguing).
>
> Firstly, are there any others I've missed? And what would the
> consensus be on the which has the most active community behind it?
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

If you seek also event-driven libraries:
Twisted - http://twistedmatrix.com/trac/

--doron
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From mensanator at aol.com  Mon Aug 24 00:36:19 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:36:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> 
	
	 
	<1fa1663b-a1cb-42d4-890b-0617b73e8816@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> 
	<9b8c48a3-b050-4a13-83f5-bc4185c62bdc@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com> 
	 
	 
	<86bb893a-344a-4c7b-9fc6-67d9f42c7607@q14g2000vbi.googlegroups.com> 
	<62dbf088-4510-40d0-af3e-3feeb291d6e4@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com> 
	<4a9197c0$0$30226$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 23, 2:25?pm, Stefan Behnel  wrote:
> Mensanator wrote:
> > asking how many Jews you can fit into a Volswagen.
>
> None, because it's already full.

A spelling error does not make it any less offensive.

>
> (or "voll" as those who design Volkswagens would put it...)
>
> Stefan



From chaelon at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 01:09:45 2009
From: chaelon at gmail.com (c)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 22:09:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is Python what I need?
References: <224ed882-b78e-4b75-afa8-35c907096469@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <22af46a4-91d1-4941-b914-ce78f136a151@p15g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

> I'm interested in developing computer based, interactive programs

That is so open-ended it could mean anything.  If you give a much
more specified idea of what you are imagining creating, people could
be helpful.

> for students in a special school who have an aversion to pen and paper.


Aversion?  Why?  Is it that they have such bad penmanship that
writing
is too frustrating?  I've taught such students in college, and
suspect
(but do not know) that what would be good is to get them young and
really put in the remedial time to train their penmanship up to
sustained
legibility and speed.  Eventually society might go 100% electronic;
for now, being able to write notes on paper is very helpful, and
paper
is still such a great technology aside from renewable concerns, but
they can be greatly improved.  (I even suspect rigorous and successful
penmanship training might pay off in "general intelligence" gains)


> I've searched the net to find ready made software that will meet my
> needs but it is either written to a level much higher than these
> students can cope with or priced beyond our school budget. I came
> across a blog of someone singing the praises of Python. My question is
> therefore aimed at those that know what they are talking about (ie
> users in this group). Is Python the language I need to learn to
> develop these programs?

I agree with Dave A that writing a useful program is often far harder
than a beginner might imagine.  That said, much would depend on what
you would need the program to do.  Python, in my limited experience
as a hobbyist, strikes me as fairly easy to get started with in
programming, and yet can do a great deal, too.  So, as I said, more
details about the intended program would help people guide your
choice.

Che


From nagle at animats.com  Mon Aug 24 01:14:17 2009
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 22:14:17 -0700
Subject: basic thread question
In-Reply-To: 
References: <20090818201015.GP20434@dragontoe.org>
	
Message-ID: <4a922086$0$1619$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

Jan Kaliszewski wrote:
> 18-08-2009 o 22:10:15 Derek Martin  wrote:
> 
>> I have some simple threaded code...  If I run this
>> with an arg of 1 (start one thread), it pegs one cpu, as I would
>> expect.  If I run it with an arg of 2 (start 2 threads), it uses both
>> CPUs, but utilization of both is less than 50%.  Can anyone explain
>> why?
>>
>> I do not pretend it's impeccable code, and I'm not looking for a
>> critiqe of the code per se, excepting the case where what I've written
>> is actually *wrong*. I hacked this together in a couple of minutes,
>> with the intent of pegging my CPUs.  Performance with two threads is
>> actually *worse* than with one, which is highly unintuitive.  I can
>> accomplish my goal very easily with bash, but I still want to
>> understand what's going on here...
>>
>> The OS is Linux 2.6.24, on a Ubuntu base.  Here's the code:
> 
> Python threads can't benefit from multiple processors (because of GIL,
> see: http://docs.python.org/glossary.html#term-global-interpreter-lock).

     This is a CPython implementation restriction.  It's not inherent in
the language.

     Multiple threads make overall performance worse because Python's
approach to thread locking produces a large number of context switches.
The interpreter unlocks the "Global Interpreter Lock" every N interpreter
cycles and on any system call that can block, which, if there is a
thread waiting, causes a context switch.

     Multiple Python processes can run concurrently, but each process
has a copy of the entire Python system, so the memory and cache footprints are
far larger than for multiple threads.

				John Nagle


From graham.dumpleton at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 02:51:33 2009
From: graham.dumpleton at gmail.com (Graham Dumpleton)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 23:51:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: web frameworks that support Python 3
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 24, 6:34?am, Sebastian Wiesner  wrote:
> At Sunday 23 August 2009 22:13:16 you wrote:> I use Chinese and therefore Unicode very heavily, and so Python 3 is
> > an unavoidable choice for me.
>
> Python 2.x supports Unicode just as well as Python 3. ?Every common web
> framework works perfectly with unicode.
>
> In any case, there is bottle [1], which provides a *very minimal* framework
> for WSGI web development. ?Don't expect too much, it is really small, and
> doesn't do much more than routing and minimal templating.
>
> However, it is the only Python-3-compatible web framework I know of.
>
> [1]http://bottle.paws.de/page/start

There is one big flaw with your claim. That is the there is no WSGI
specification for Python 3.0 as yet. Anything that claims to work with
WSGI and Python 3.0 is just a big guess as far as how WSGI for Python
3.0 may work.

I would therefore be a bit cautious with your claim.

Graham



From kerensaelise at hotmail.com  Mon Aug 24 03:04:57 2009
From: kerensaelise at hotmail.com (elsa)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 00:04:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: elementtree
Message-ID: <3037e686-d552-4373-a822-75a43b274cca@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

I have a question about elementtree:

I know how to turn HTML into an ElementTree object, but I don't know
how to then view the structure of this object. Is there a method or
module that you can give an ElementTree object to, and it returns some
kind of graphical or printed representation of the tree? Otherwise, if
you can't see you're tree's structure, how do you know what is a
sensible way of iterating over the tree to access the info you need?

Thanks!


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Aug 24 03:08:07 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:08:07 +0200
Subject: sgmllib.py
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4a923c57$0$32664$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>

elsa wrote:
> I'm new to both this forum and Python, and I've got a bit stuck trying
> to learn how to parse HTML...

If what you want to do is *parse* the HTML instead of trying to *learn* how
to parse it, you might want to give the existing (external) HTML parser
libraries a try. There's lxml.html (extremely fast and fixes up broken
HTML), html5lib (very slow, but very browser-like parse results) and
BeautifulSoup (slow, but good encoding detection if you need that).

Here are a couple of (only slightly biased) comparisons:

http://blog.ianbicking.org/2008/03/30/python-html-parser-performance/
http://blog.ianbicking.org/2008/12/10/lxml-an-underappreciated-web-scraping-library/


> python sgmllib.py "path/to/my/file.html"  .... example (1)
> 
> this doesn't work for me. I think I have figured out the problem  -
> the error says
> 
> "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/Resources/
> Python.app/Contents/MacOS/Python: can't open file 'sgmllib.py': [Errno
> 2] No such file or directory"
> 
> the problem is that this path is wrong. My sgmllib.py is in:
> 
> "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/
> python2.5/sgmllib.py"

You can use "python -m sgmllib" to call a module from the stdlib (or the
PYTHONPATH, to be more accurate).

But note that sgmllib is a particularly cumbersome way to deal with HTML.

Stefan


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Aug 24 03:13:14 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:13:14 +0200
Subject: elementtree
In-Reply-To: <3037e686-d552-4373-a822-75a43b274cca@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: <3037e686-d552-4373-a822-75a43b274cca@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a923d8b$0$32664$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>

Hi,

elsa wrote:
> I know how to turn HTML into an ElementTree object

I don't. ;)

ElementTree doesn't have an HTML parser, so what do you use for parsing?


> but I don't know
> how to then view the structure of this object. Is there a method or
> module that you can give an ElementTree object to, and it returns some
> kind of graphical or printed representation of the tree? Otherwise, if
> you can't see you're tree's structure, how do you know what is a
> sensible way of iterating over the tree to access the info you need?

ElementTree has a tostring() method that returns a string. To get a pretty
printed representation, you can use the indent() function from this recipe:

http://effbot.org/zone/element-lib.htm#prettyprint

Stefan


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Aug 24 03:16:32 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:16:32 +0200
Subject: [ANN] pyxser-1.2r --- Python-Object to XML serialization module
In-Reply-To: <2571343.k9db9GJWqV@coder.cl>
References: <2571343.k9db9GJWqV@coder.cl>
Message-ID: <4a923e50$0$32664$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>

Daniel Molina Wegener wrote:
>         * Added encoded serialization of Unicode strings by using
>         the user defined encoding as is passed to the serialization
>         functions as enc parameter
> 
> As you see, now Unicode strings are serialized as encoded byte string
> by using the encoding that the user pass as enc parameter to the
> serialization function. This means that Unicode strings are serialized
> in a human readable form, regarding a better interoperability with
> other platforms.

You mean, the whole XML document is serialised with that encoding, right?

Stefan


From osky50 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 03:25:44 2009
From: osky50 at gmail.com (osky)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 00:25:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python and JMS
Message-ID: <679a2898-abf1-4938-a456-59e0bf5ba666@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

Hi all,

I would like to make a JMS client connection from Python to Progress
Sonic ESB (JMS message provider similar to WebSphere MQ or Active
MQ).

What would be the best way to implement that within Python 2.6 ?
Any ideas ?

Thanks
Oscar


From ajoys123 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 03:39:21 2009
From: ajoys123 at gmail.com (devaru)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 00:39:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Simple IRC library
Message-ID: <752884c5-c6fb-4974-a21a-bf3017fa4145@y4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

Hi all,
I am new to Python language. I want to capture(either in database or a
file) the conversation in IRC.
Please suggest me some simple IRC library or code snippet for this.


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Aug 24 03:40:03 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:40:03 +0200
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
In-Reply-To: <02a1cc1d$0$30337$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>		<4a918fe0$0$30226$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net>
	<02a1cc1d$0$30337$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4a9243d3$0$32677$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> I'm amused and somewhat perplexed that somebody with the non-English 
> name of Stefan, writing from a .de email address, seems to be assuming 
> that (1) everybody is on the Internet, and (2) everybody on the Internet 
> speaks English.

Oh, I totally don't. But most people who read c.l.py do at least understand
it to a certain extent. I don't commonly read /that/ many
non-english-speaking Python forums thoroughly enough to assume that the OP
posted the question only in English and only in c.l.py. I don't even assume
that he only posted that question to an Internet newsgroup. You know,
there's real-life, too.


>> But reading statements like the above really makes me feel that it's
>> best to comment even on simple things like "hi guys!".
> 
> Or you could enter the 21 century and understand that "guys" has become a 
> generic term for people of any sex.

Is that true for everyone who understands and/or writes English? In that
case, I'm fine with your above statement. Otherwise, I'd wonder who you
meant with the term "cultural chauvinism". So far, I only learned that most
North-American English native speakers use that term in the way you refer
to. That doesn't even get you close to the majority of English speakers.

Stefan


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Aug 24 03:43:49 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:43:49 +0200
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<1fa1663b-a1cb-42d4-890b-0617b73e8816@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<9b8c48a3-b050-4a13-83f5-bc4185c62bdc@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<86bb893a-344a-4c7b-9fc6-67d9f42c7607@q14g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	<62dbf088-4510-40d0-af3e-3feeb291d6e4@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	<4a9197c0$0$30226$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net>
	
Message-ID: <4a9244b5$0$32671$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>

Mensanator wrote:
> On Aug 23, 2:25?pm, Stefan Behnel wrote:
>> Mensanator wrote:
>>> asking how many Jews you can fit into a Volswagen.
>> None, because it's already full.
> 
> A spelling error does not make it any less offensive.

As it stands, I find the joke above perfectly acceptable. Using the word
"Jew" in a joke doesn't make it anti-semitic by default.

Stefan


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Mon Aug 24 03:51:37 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:51:37 +0200
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal
	notation
References: 
	
	
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Scott David Daniels  (SDD) wrote:

>SDD> James Harris wrote:...
>>> Another option:
>>> 
>>> 0.(2:1011), 0.(8:7621), 0.(16:c26b)
>>> 
>>> where the three characters "0.(" begin the sequence.
>>> 
>>> Comments? Improvements?

>SDD> I did a little interpreter where non-base 10 numbers
>SDD> (up to base 36) were:

>SDD>     .7.100   == 64  (octal)
>SDD>     .9.100   == 100 (decimal)
>SDD>     .F.100   == 256 (hexadecimal)
>SDD>     .1.100   == 4   (binary)
>SDD>     .3.100   == 9   (trinary)
>SDD>     .Z.100   == 46656 (base 36)

I wonder how you wrote that interpreter, given that some answers are wrong.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From max at alcyone.com  Mon Aug 24 04:05:40 2009
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 01:05:40 -0700
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
In-Reply-To: 
References: 			<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>			
	
Message-ID: 

MRAB wrote:
> James Harris wrote:
>> On 23 Aug, 00:16, Mel  wrote:
>>> James Harris wrote:
>>>> I have no idea why Ada which uses the # also apparently uses it to end
>>>> a number
>>>>   2#1011#, 8#7621#, 16#c26b#
>>> Interesting.  They do it because of this example from
>>> :
>>
>> Thanks for providing an explanation.
>>
>>> 2#1#E8                    -- an integer literal of value 256
>>>
>>> where the E prefixes a power-of-2 exponent, and can't be taken as a 
>>> digit of
>>> the radix.  That is to say
>>>
>>> 16#1#E2
>>>
>>> would also equal 256, since it's 1*16**2 .
>>
>> Here's another suggested number literal format. First, keep the
>> familar 0x and 0b of C and others and to add 0t for octal. (T is the
>> third letter of octal as X is the third letter of hex.) The numbers
>> above would be
>>
>>   0b1011, 0t7621, 0xc26b
>>
>> Second, allow an arbitrary number base by putting base and number in
>> quotes after a zero as in
>>
>>   0"2:1011", 0"8:7621", 0"16:c26b"
>>
> Why not just put the base first, followed by the value in quotes:
> 
>     2"1011", 8"7621", 16"c26b"

It's always a bit impressive how syntax suggestions get more and more 
involved and, if you'll forgive me for saying, ridiculous as the 
conversation continues.  This is starting to get truly nutty.

What I've done in my projects is simply extend the pattern of 0x... for 
hexadecimal literals in C to 0b... for binary, 0o... for octal, 0d... 
for decimal (though redundant as that's the default), and so on.  (Go 
crazy and add 0t... for trinary and 0q... for quaternary if you feel 
like it.)  To me this always seemed elegant, simple, and understandable.

If arbitrary radix values is what's desirable, then some syntax like

	r

(e.g., 8r024222570 for an octal number which represents a very lame 
joke) would work, but seems to me like huge overkill.  A normal string 
literal coupled with a "constructor" type function would seem far more 
appropriate -- and we already have that with `int`.

As for large literals, I'd go with having spaces indicate automatic 
concatenation (though only the first in the series can indicate the 
radix, whichever method you choose above).  It's the same as for 
strings, and it's the common SI recommendation for thousands separators 
anyway.

-- 
Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
  San Jose, CA, USA && 37 18 N 121 57 W && AIM/Y!M/Skype erikmaxfrancis
   The little I know, I owe to my ignorance.
    -- Sacha Guitry


From max at alcyone.com  Mon Aug 24 04:12:22 2009
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 01:12:22 -0700
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal
	notation
In-Reply-To: 
References: 			<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>		
	<87ljlahbn9.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
Message-ID: 

J. Cliff Dyer wrote:
> I had an objection to using spaces in numeric literals last time around
> and it still stands, and it still stands in the new one.
> 
> What happens if you use a literal like 0x10f 304?  Is 304 treated as
> decimal or hexadecimal?  It's not clear how you would begin to combine
> it.

Well, you can't combine them in any meaningful mathematical or 
computational sense if they're of different bases, so the answer lies 
therein:  You shouldn't be allowed to do that.

> The way string concatenation works, it takes two independent string
> literals, and combines them.  If you specify r'\n' 'abc\n', the first
> half is treated independently as a raw string, and the second half is
> treated as a normal string.  The result is '\\nabc\n'.
> 
> With numeric literals, this behavior doesn't even make sense.  How do
> you concatenate hex 10f with decimal 304?

You can't, and the operation makes no sense, which is what makes the 
syntax unambiguous.  An extended numeric literal continues the radix of 
wherever it started.

-- 
Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
  San Jose, CA, USA && 37 18 N 121 57 W && AIM/Y!M/Skype erikmaxfrancis
   Do not seek death. Death will find you.
    -- Dag Hammarskjold


From james.harris.1 at googlemail.com  Mon Aug 24 04:16:07 2009
From: james.harris.1 at googlemail.com (James Harris)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 01:16:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
References:  
	
	 
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com> 
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
	
	
	<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com> 
	
Message-ID: 

On 24 Aug, 02:19, Max Erickson  wrote:

...

> > It can be assumed however that .9. isn't in binary?
>
> > That's a neat idea. But an even simpler scheme might be:
>
> > .octal.100
> > .decimal.100
> > .hex.100
> > .binary.100
> > .trinary.100
>
> > until it gets to this anyway:
>
> > .thiryseximal.100
>
> At some point, abandoning direct support for literals and just
> having a function that can handle different bases starts to make a
> lot of sense to me:
>
> >>> int('100', 8)
> 64
> >>> int('100', 10)
> 100
> >>> int('100', 16)
> 256
> >>> int('100', 2)
> 4
> >>> int('100', 3)
> 9
> >>> int('100', 36)
> 1296

This is fine typed into the language directly but couldn't be entered
by the user or read-in from or written to a file.

James


From max at alcyone.com  Mon Aug 24 04:20:02 2009
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 01:20:02 -0700
Subject: Literal concatenation, strings vs. numbers
In-Reply-To: <871vn2gcai.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
References: 			<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>		
	<87ljlahbn9.fsf@benfinney.id.au>		<7fe9mbF2l83bmU1@mid.individual.net>
	<871vn2gcai.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: 

Ben Finney wrote:
> Yet, as was pointed out, that behaviour would be inconsistent with the
> concatenation of string literals::
> 
>     >>> "abc" r'def' u"ghi" 'jkl'
>     u'abcdefghijkl'
> 
> So, different representations of literals are parsed as separate
> literals, then concatenated. To have the behaviour you describe, the
> case needs to be made separately that digit concatenation should not be
> consistent with the established string literal parsing behaviour.

Since digit concatenation can't possibly be useful any other way, it 
makes perfect sense.

Why is the operator ** right-to-left associative?  The same basic 
reason:  Because it would be dumb for it not to be.  Does that make it 
confusing and inconsistent compared to most of the other binary 
operators?  In some sense, yes, it does.  But it also makes it sane.  Is 
anyone so upset by this that it didn't make it into the language, or 
cause huge confusion on a regular basis that upsets a lot of users?  Nope.

-- 
Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
  San Jose, CA, USA && 37 18 N 121 57 W && AIM/Y!M/Skype erikmaxfrancis
   Do not seek death. Death will find you.
    -- Dag Hammarskjold


From nmm1 at cam.ac.uk  Mon Aug 24 04:24:50 2009
From: nmm1 at cam.ac.uk (nmm1 at cam.ac.uk)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:24:50 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
	
	<1j4ww90.pvvxweehycu0N%nospam@see.signature>
	<5134d9f1-0e23-4e05-a817-bf0cc9e85d3e@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

In article <5134d9f1-0e23-4e05-a817-bf0cc9e85d3e at w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>,
sturlamolden   wrote:
>On 24 Aug, 02:26, nos... at see.signature (Richard Maine) wrote:
>
>> You missed the word "OOP", which seemed like the whole point. Not that
>> the particular word is used in the Fortran standard, but it isn't hard
>> to guess that he means a derived type that uses some of the OOP
>> features. Inheritance, polymorphism, and type-bound procedure (aka
>> methods in some other languages) come to mind.
>
>But C is not OOP. The ISO C bindings in Fortran are not ISO C++
>bindings. This is for a reason: C++ does not have a standard ABI like
>ISO C.

Nor does C.  Almost everything that most people believe about C is
wrong, because C is not well-defined at any level, so there are
many twisty little C languages, all different.

Richard is perfectly correct that my point was OOP.  C interoperability
does not apply to any derived type with type-bound procedures, which
include finalizers.  Note that this ALSO forbids them from being
passed as data, even if the other language never uses the OOP features
of the type.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.


From james.harris.1 at googlemail.com  Mon Aug 24 04:25:35 2009
From: james.harris.1 at googlemail.com (James Harris)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 01:25:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
References:  
	
	 
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com> 
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

On 24 Aug, 09:05, Erik Max Francis  wrote:

...

> >> Here's another suggested number literal format. First, keep the
> >> familar 0x and 0b of C and others and to add 0t for octal. (T is the
> >> third letter of octal as X is the third letter of hex.) The numbers
> >> above would be
>
> >> ? 0b1011, 0t7621, 0xc26b
>
> >> Second, allow an arbitrary number base by putting base and number in
> >> quotes after a zero as in
>
> >> ? 0"2:1011", 0"8:7621", 0"16:c26b"
>
> > Why not just put the base first, followed by the value in quotes:
>
> > ? ? 2"1011", 8"7621", 16"c26b"
>
> It's always a bit impressive how syntax suggestions get more and more
> involved and, if you'll forgive me for saying, ridiculous as the
> conversation continues. ?This is starting to get truly nutty.

Why do you say that here? MRAB's suggestion is one of the clearest
there has been. And it incorporates the other requirements: starts
with a digit, allows an appropriate alphabet, has no issues with
spacing digit groups, shows clearly where the number ends and could
take an exponent suffix.

James


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Mon Aug 24 04:29:20 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:29:20 +0200
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal
	notation
In-Reply-To: <9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com>
References: 
	
	<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com>
Message-ID: <200908241029.20487.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Monday 24 August 2009 01:04:37 bartc wrote:

> That's a neat idea. But an even simpler scheme might be:
>
> .octal.100
> .decimal.100
> .hex.100
> .binary.100
> .trinary.100
>
> until it gets to this anyway:
>
> .thiryseximal.100

Yeah right.  So now I first have to type a string, which probably has a strict 
spelling, before a number.  It is only marginally less stupid than this:

1.0										- Unary
11.0101									- Binary
111. 012012 							- Trinary
11111111.01234567						- Octal
1111111111.0123456789					- Decimal
1111111111111111.0123456789abcdef	- Hex

Any parser that can count will immediately know what to do.

I also tried to include an example of a literal with a base of a Googol but I 
ran out of both ink and symbols.
:-)
- Hendrik


From max at alcyone.com  Mon Aug 24 04:30:11 2009
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 01:30:11 -0700
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: <_oidnbiiYrgJ0g_XnZ2dnUVZ_uVi4p2d@giganews.com>

James Harris wrote:
> On 24 Aug, 09:05, Erik Max Francis  wrote:
>>>> Here's another suggested number literal format. First, keep the
>>>> familar 0x and 0b of C and others and to add 0t for octal. (T is the
>>>> third letter of octal as X is the third letter of hex.) The numbers
>>>> above would be
>>>>   0b1011, 0t7621, 0xc26b
>>>> Second, allow an arbitrary number base by putting base and number in
>>>> quotes after a zero as in
>>>>   0"2:1011", 0"8:7621", 0"16:c26b"
>>> Why not just put the base first, followed by the value in quotes:
>>>     2"1011", 8"7621", 16"c26b"
>> It's always a bit impressive how syntax suggestions get more and more
>> involved and, if you'll forgive me for saying, ridiculous as the
>> conversation continues.  This is starting to get truly nutty.
> 
> Why do you say that here? MRAB's suggestion is one of the clearest
> there has been. And it incorporates the other requirements: starts
> with a digit, allows an appropriate alphabet, has no issues with
> spacing digit groups, shows clearly where the number ends and could
> take an exponent suffix.

In your opinion.  Obviously not in others.  Which is pretty obviously 
what I meant, so the rhetorical question is a bit weird here.

There's a reason that languages designed by committee end up horrific 
nightmares.

-- 
Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
  San Jose, CA, USA && 37 18 N 121 57 W && AIM/Y!M/Skype erikmaxfrancis
   Do not seek death. Death will find you.
    -- Dag Hammarskjold


From max at alcyone.com  Mon Aug 24 04:35:47 2009
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 01:35:47 -0700
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
	
	
	<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

James Harris wrote:
> On 24 Aug, 02:19, Max Erickson  wrote:
>>> It can be assumed however that .9. isn't in binary?
>>> That's a neat idea. But an even simpler scheme might be:
>>> .octal.100
>>> .decimal.100
>>> .hex.100
>>> .binary.100
>>> .trinary.100
>>> until it gets to this anyway:
>>> .thiryseximal.100
>> At some point, abandoning direct support for literals and just
>> having a function that can handle different bases starts to make a
>> lot of sense to me:
>>
>>>>> int('100', 8)
>> 64
>>>>> int('100', 10)
>> 100
>>>>> int('100', 16)
>> 256
>>>>> int('100', 2)
>> 4
>>>>> int('100', 3)
>> 9
>>>>> int('100', 36)
>> 1296
> 
> This is fine typed into the language directly but couldn't be entered
> by the user or read-in from or written to a file.

Why would a programmer be expecting an arbitrary-radix numeric literal 
typed in by a user or read from a file?  If you're reading it from a 
file, you've already got it in some satisfactory form, binary or 
otherwise.  If you're taking it as input from a user, they're not going 
to know the Python syntax anyway, and would type in the radix and then 
the literal (in the unlikely case this would ever be required, which is 
still hard to imagine).

Either way, conversion is, as Max showed, one line of code.  It's hard 
to see the explicit need for truly arbitrary-radix literals in any 
language -- and I'm the guy who's put quaternary literals in syntaxes 
he's had to develop just for fun.  Binary, octal, decimal, hexadecimal, 
sure.  Beyond that it's a solution begging for problems.

-- 
Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
  San Jose, CA, USA && 37 18 N 121 57 W && AIM/Y!M/Skype erikmaxfrancis
   Do not seek death. Death will find you.
    -- Dag Hammarskjold


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Mon Aug 24 04:40:06 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:40:06 +0200
Subject: Protecting against callbacks queuing up?
In-Reply-To: <4a91db65$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
References: <4a91db65$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
Message-ID: <200908241040.06613.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Monday 24 August 2009 02:14:24 Esben von Buchwald wrote:
> Hello
>
> I'm using Python for S60 1.9.7 on my Nokia phone.
>
> I've made a program that gets input from an accelerometer sensor, and
> then calculates some stuff and displays the result.
>
> The sensor framework API does a callback to a function defined by me,
> every time new data is available.
>
> The problem is, that sometimes, the calculations may take longer than
> others, but if the callback is called before the first calculation is
> done, it seems like it's queuing up all the callbacks, and execute them
> sequentially, afterwards.
>
> What I need, is to simply ignore the callback, if the previous call
> hasn't finished it's operations before it's called again.
>
> I thought that this code would do the trick, but it obviously doesn't
> help at all, and i can't understand why...
>
>      def doCallback(self):
>          if self.process_busy==False:
>              self.process_busy=True
>              self.data_callback()
>              self.process_busy=False
>
see if there is an "after" method somewhere.

What you have to do is to "break the link" between the callback
and the processing.  Your code above is all in the callback "thread", despite 
the fact that you call another function to do the processing.

So if you replace the data_callback() with an after call, it should work as 
you expect.

HTH - Hendrik



From max at alcyone.com  Mon Aug 24 04:41:14 2009
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 01:41:14 -0700
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal
	notation
In-Reply-To: 
References: 		<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:
> I also tried to include an example of a literal with a base of a Googol but I 
> ran out of both ink and symbols.
> :-)

... or particles in the observable Universe, for that matter.

-- 
Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
  San Jose, CA, USA && 37 18 N 121 57 W && AIM/Y!M/Skype erikmaxfrancis
   Do not seek death. Death will find you.
    -- Dag Hammarskjold


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Mon Aug 24 04:41:58 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:41:58 +0200
Subject: basic thread question
References: <20090818201015.GP20434@dragontoe.org>
	
	<4a922086$0$1619$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Dennis Lee Bieber  (DLB) wrote:

>DLB> On Sun, 23 Aug 2009 22:14:17 -0700, John Nagle 
>DLB> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:

>>> Multiple Python processes can run concurrently, but each process
>>> has a copy of the entire Python system, so the memory and cache footprints are
>>> far larger than for multiple threads.
>>> 
>DLB> 	One would think a smart enough OS would be able to share the
>DLB> executable (interpreter) code, and only create a new stack/heap
>DLB> allocation for data.

Of course they do, but a significant portion of a Python system consists
of imported modules and these are data as far as the OS is concerned.
Only the modules written in C which are loaded as DLL's (shared libs)
and of course the interpreter executable will be shared.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Mon Aug 24 04:44:21 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:44:21 +0200
Subject: Items inheriting attributes from its container?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4a9252e5$0$17143$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Kreso a ?crit :
> I would like to create a list-like container class so that, additionally
> to usual list methods, I could attach attributes to the container instances.
> However, I would like it so that the items contained in the particular
> instance of container somehow 'inherit' those attributes i.e.
> 
> cont = Container()
> cont.color = 'blue'
> cont.append(item)
> print item.color
> 'blue'
> 

This is named "environmental aquisition" (or simply "aquisition") and is 
one of the base mechanisms in Zope 2. While an interesting idea, from 
experience, it can rapidly turn into a total maintainance nightmare if 
not used with care :-/



From james.harris.1 at googlemail.com  Mon Aug 24 04:47:44 2009
From: james.harris.1 at googlemail.com (James Harris)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 01:47:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
References:  
	
	 
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com> 
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
	
	
	 
	 
	<_oidnbiiYrgJ0g_XnZ2dnUVZ_uVi4p2d@giganews.com>
Message-ID: 

On 24 Aug, 09:30, Erik Max Francis  wrote:
> James Harris wrote:
> > On 24 Aug, 09:05, Erik Max Francis  wrote:
> >>>> Here's another suggested number literal format. First, keep the
> >>>> familar 0x and 0b of C and others and to add 0t for octal. (T is the
> >>>> third letter of octal as X is the third letter of hex.) The numbers
> >>>> above would be
> >>>> ? 0b1011, 0t7621, 0xc26b
> >>>> Second, allow an arbitrary number base by putting base and number in
> >>>> quotes after a zero as in
> >>>> ? 0"2:1011", 0"8:7621", 0"16:c26b"
> >>> Why not just put the base first, followed by the value in quotes:
> >>> ? ? 2"1011", 8"7621", 16"c26b"
> >> It's always a bit impressive how syntax suggestions get more and more
> >> involved and, if you'll forgive me for saying, ridiculous as the
> >> conversation continues. ?This is starting to get truly nutty.
>
> > Why do you say that here? MRAB's suggestion is one of the clearest
> > there has been. And it incorporates the other requirements: starts
> > with a digit, allows an appropriate alphabet, has no issues with
> > spacing digit groups, shows clearly where the number ends and could
> > take an exponent suffix.
>
> In your opinion. ?Obviously not in others. ?Which is pretty obviously
> what I meant, so the rhetorical question is a bit weird here.

Don't get defensive.... Yes, in my opinion, if you like, but you can't
say "obviously not in others" as no one else but you has commented on
MRAB's suggestion.

Also, when you say "This is starting to get truly nutty" would you
accept that that's in your opinion?

> There's a reason that languages designed by committee end up horrific
> nightmares.

True but I would suggest that mistakes are also made by designers who
do not seek the opinions of others. There's a balance to be struck
between a committee and an ivory tower.

James


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Mon Aug 24 04:54:31 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:54:31 +0200
Subject: Newbie: list comprehension troubles..
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4a925547$0$22644$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

mm a ?crit :
> Hi, I'm trying to replace this...
> 
>         # this works but there must be a more pythonic way, right?
>         tlist = []
>         for obj in self.objs:
>             t = obj.intersect(ray)
>             if (t != None):

hint 1 : this is Python, you don't need parens around conditionals.
hint 2 : None is a singleton, so the usual idiom is to test for identity 
('is') instead of equality ('==')

IOW, make this line:

               if t is not None:

>                 tlist.append((obj,t))
> 
> with a list comprehension- can it be done?

See other answers here. As far as I'm concerned, while being a great fan 
of list comps etc, I'd stick with the plain old for loop here - much 
more readable if nothing else.



From davea at ieee.org  Mon Aug 24 05:04:19 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 05:04:19 -0400
Subject: sgmllib.py
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A925793.9030305@ieee.org>

elsa wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm new to both this forum and Python, and I've got a bit stuck trying
> to learn how to parse HTML.... here is my problem
>
> I'm using a textbook that uses sgmllib.py for all its examples. I'm
> aware that sgmllib is not in the current release, however I want to
> get it to work, as I have python 2.5, and the text book uses it.
>
> So, the first example says to type something like (to test the
> sgmllib):
>
> python sgmllib.py "path/to/my/file.html"  .... example (1)
>
> this doesn't work for me. I think I have figured out the problem  -
> the error says
>
> "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/Resources/
> Python.app/Contents/MacOS/Python: can't open file 'sgmllib.py': [Errno
> 2] No such file or directory"
>
> the problem is that this path is wrong. My sgmllib.py is in:
>
> "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/
> python2.5/sgmllib.py"
>
> if I substitute this path for sgmllib.py in example (1), everything
> works fine. However, I don't want to do all that typing everytime I
> want to use sgmllib.py. So, I thought maybe the problem was with
> PYTHONPATH. I executed the following command:
>
> export PYTHONPATH=/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/
> 2.5/li/python2.5:$PYTHONPATH
>
> this seemed to work - no errors raised. However, when I retyped
> example (1), I got the same original error.
>
> Any assistance would be much appreciated. I'm working on max os x
> leopard.
>
> Thanks,
>
> elsa
>
>   
The path in the error message simply refers to the full path string to 
your Python interpreter, and reflects %0 in your shell.  So I'd assume 
you've got a script called 'python' on your path, which spells out the 
full path name.

That has nothing to do with your problem.  Your problem, as you 
correctly surmised, is that Python's search path doesn't include the 
directory containing sgmllib.py

Unfortunately, I haven't used Unix for over 15 years, so I don't recall the specifics of the shell 'export' operation.  But you should be able to check the workings by inspecting the PYTHONPATH variable after trying to change it.

There are a number of places that Python looks for a .py file.  My choice, for a standard library like this that you don't plan to modify, would be to put it in the site-packages directory.  You can see exactly where that is by doing the following in a simple script, and examining the output.

import sys
print sys.path





From deets at nospam.web.de  Mon Aug 24 05:06:00 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 11:06:00 +0200
Subject: Python and JMS
References: <679a2898-abf1-4938-a456-59e0bf5ba666@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7ff3foF2kcl0rU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

osky wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I would like to make a JMS client connection from Python to Progress
> Sonic ESB (JMS message provider similar to WebSphere MQ or Active
> MQ).
> 
> What would be the best way to implement that within Python 2.6 ?
> Any ideas ?

I just recently learned about JCC - a Java-wrapper-compiler for python that
is used by pylucene to embed (!) the JVM into python.

This might be one viable option. I don't know much more, though.

Diez


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Aug 24 05:16:38 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 11:16:38 +0200
Subject: sgmllib.py
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <4a925a76$0$32668$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>

Dave Angel schrieb:
> elsa wrote:
>> python sgmllib.py "path/to/my/file.html"  .... example (1)
>
> The path in the error message simply refers to the full path string to
> your Python interpreter, and reflects %0 in your shell.  So I'd assume
> you've got a script called 'python' on your path, which spells out the
> full path name.

No, the problem is that "sgmllib.py" simply isn't in the directory where
the Python interpreter is run. When you say

	python sgmllib.py

you are instructing the Python interpreter to run the script "sgmllib.py"
*in the current directory*. According to the original post, that's clearly
not the intention of the OP.

Stefan


From davea at ieee.org  Mon Aug 24 05:23:24 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 05:23:24 -0400
Subject: basic thread question
In-Reply-To: 
References: <20090818201015.GP20434@dragontoe.org>		<4a922086$0$1619$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	
Message-ID: <4A925C0C.4090906@ieee.org>

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Aug 2009 22:14:17 -0700, John Nagle 
> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>
>   
>>      Multiple Python processes can run concurrently, but each process
>> has a copy of the entire Python system, so the memory and cache footprints are
>> far larger than for multiple threads.
>>
>>     
> 	One would think a smart enough OS would be able to share the
> executable (interpreter) code, and only create a new stack/heap
> allocation for data.
>   
That's what fork is all about.  (See os.fork(), available on most 
Unix/Linux)  The two processes start out sharing their state, and only 
the things subsequently written need separate swap space.

In Windows (and probably Unix/Linux), the swapspace taken by the 
executable and DLLs(shared libraries) is minimal.  Each DLL may have a 
"preferred location" and if that part of the address space is available, 
it takes no swapspace at all, except for static variables, which are 
usually allocated together.  I don't know whether the standard build of 
CPython (python.exe and the pyo libraries) uses such a linker option, 
but I'd bet they do.  It also speeds startup time.

On my system, a minimal python program uses about 50k of swapspace.  But 
I'm sure that goes way up with lots of imports.


DaveA


From davea at ieee.org  Mon Aug 24 05:29:43 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 05:29:43 -0400
Subject: elementtree
In-Reply-To: <4a923d8b$0$32664$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
References: <3037e686-d552-4373-a822-75a43b274cca@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<4a923d8b$0$32664$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <4A925D87.5010905@ieee.org>

Stefan Behnel wrote:
> Hi,
>
> elsa wrote:
>   
>> I know how to turn HTML into an ElementTree object
>>     
>
> I don't. ;)
>
> ElementTree doesn't have an HTML parser, so what do you use for parsing?
>
>
>   
>> but I don't know
>> how to then view the structure of this object. Is there a method or
>> module that you can give an ElementTree object to, and it returns some
>> kind of graphical or printed representation of the tree? Otherwise, if
>> you can't see you're tree's structure, how do you know what is a
>> sensible way of iterating over the tree to access the info you need?
>>     
>
> ElementTree has a tostring() method that returns a string. To get a pretty
> printed representation, you can use the indent() function from this recipe:
>
> http://effbot.org/zone/element-lib.htm#prettyprint
>
> Stefan
>
>   
Perhaps the OP was referring to XHTML, which should be eligible for 
ElementTree.  But could you tell me whether ElementTree is at all 
tolerant of malformed XML?   Most HTML and XHTML I encounter in the wild 
is so  buggy it's amazing it all works at all.

 
DaveA


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Aug 24 05:54:39 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 11:54:39 +0200
Subject: elementtree
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3037e686-d552-4373-a822-75a43b274cca@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com>	<4a923d8b$0$32664$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
	
Message-ID: <4a92635f$0$32678$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>

Dave Angel wrote:
> Stefan Behnel wrote:
>> elsa wrote:
>>> I know how to turn HTML into an ElementTree object
>>
>> I don't. ;)
>>
>> ElementTree doesn't have an HTML parser, so what do you use for parsing?
>>   
> Perhaps the OP was referring to XHTML, which should be eligible for
> ElementTree.  But could you tell me whether ElementTree is at all
> tolerant of malformed XML?   Most HTML and XHTML I encounter in the wild
> is so  buggy it's amazing it all works at all.

Well, if the XHTML is "buggy", it's not XHTML at all. XHTML is XML, which
is defined as being well-formed. Any XHTML parser is required to reject
malformed input, and the expat parser that ElementTree uses is (luckily) no
exception.

Regarding malformed HTML: that's not directly supported by ElementTree,
hence my question. You can use ElementSoup to interface with BeautifulSoup,
or elementtidy to interface with tidy, or html5lib with ElementTree as
backend, or you can use lxml instead, which handles malformed HTML (and is
all fast and shiny and ... ;).

Stefan


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Aug 24 06:12:19 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 12:12:19 +0200
Subject: Python and JMS
In-Reply-To: <679a2898-abf1-4938-a456-59e0bf5ba666@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <679a2898-abf1-4938-a456-59e0bf5ba666@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a926783$0$32673$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>

osky wrote:
> I would like to make a JMS client connection from Python to Progress
> Sonic ESB (JMS message provider similar to WebSphere MQ or Active
> MQ).

Never needed this, but Google gives me this as first hit

http://hjb.python-hosting.com/

and this c.l.py thread reference a little further down:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2006-July/567400.html

Stefan


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 06:56:08 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 03:56:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Literal concatenation, strings vs. numbers (was: Numeric literals 
	in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal notation)
References:  
	
	 
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com> 
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	 <87ljlahbn9.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	 
	<7fe9mbF2l83bmU1@mid.individual.net>
	<871vn2gcai.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <3353e3ec-384a-4786-bd33-b26ab26df129@l5g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 23, 7:45?pm, Ben Finney  wrote:
> greg  writes:
> > J. Cliff Dyer wrote:
>
> > > What happens if you use a literal like 0x10f 304?
>
> > To me the obvious thing to do is concatenate them textually and then
> > treat the whole thing as a single numeric literal. Anything else
> > wouldn't be sane, IMO.
>
> Yet, as was pointed out, that behaviour would be inconsistent with the
> concatenation of string literals::
>
> ? ? >>> "abc" r'def' u"ghi" 'jkl'
> ? ? u'abcdefghijkl'

Well my take on it is that this would not be the same as string
concatenation, the series of digits would be parsed as a single token
with spaces automatically removed.  That does make a difference to the
users (it's not just under the covers).

For instance, string concatenation works across lines:

"abc"
"def"

but if the numbers were parsed as a single token it wouldn't
necessarily be allowed, and would be unwise, so this is out:

100
200

You might want to also enforce rules such as only a single space can
separate digits, no tabs, not multiple spaces, so this

100  200

would also be right out.  You might even want to enforce that spaces
be at regular intervals.  I don't think it would matter too much that
digit separation can superficially resemble string concatenation if
you don't break the strings across lines, it's not too difficult to
explain what the difference is, and there's really not much chance
anyone would be confused by their meanings.

Having said all that, I would favor _ as a digit separator in Python
any day of the week, and I don't think it's all that important to have
one at all.

HOWEVER, I once proposed that if I were designing a new language I'd
consider allowing spaces in identifiers.  (That didn't stop people
from arguing why it would be confusing in Python, but never mind
that.)  If spaces were allowed in identifiers, then I'd be also in
favor of spaces in numeric literals.


> So, different representations of literals are parsed as separate
> literals, then concatenated. To have the behaviour you describe, the
> case needs to be made separately that digit concatenation should not be
> consistent with the established string literal parsing behaviour.

Well, one doesn't really *need* to make that case, they just might not
care about consistency.

But if they did I think Erik's case is a good one: very little chance
of confusion because there's really only one reasonable
interpretation.  The point of consistency is to help understand things
by analogy, but if analogy doesn't help understanding--and it wouldn't
in this case--there's no point.


Carl Banks


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 07:00:46 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 04:00:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: elementtree
References: <3037e686-d552-4373-a822-75a43b274cca@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<4a923d8b$0$32664$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <446e340c-82cc-4533-ae64-53d45ce765a2@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 24, 12:13?am, Stefan Behnel  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> elsa wrote:
> > I know how to turn HTML into an ElementTree object
>
> I don't. ;)
>
> ElementTree doesn't have an HTML parser, so what do you use for parsing?

The OP could be feeding the HTML through tidy, or it could be XHTML.


> > but I don't know
> > how to then view the structure of this object. Is there a method or
> > module that you can give an ElementTree object to, and it returns some
> > kind of graphical or printed representation of the tree? Otherwise, if
> > you can't see you're tree's structure, how do you know what is a
> > sensible way of iterating over the tree to access the info you need?
>
> ElementTree has a tostring() method that returns a string. To get a pretty
> printed representation, you can use the indent() function from this recipe:
>
> http://effbot.org/zone/element-lib.htm#prettyprint

Another possibility is to write out the ElementTree object as XML with
an .xml extension, and view it in a modern web browser (Firefox, IE,
others maybe) that can show XML structure.


Carl Banks


From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Mon Aug 24 07:06:30 2009
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 12:06:30 +0100
Subject: can python make web applications?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Deep_Feelings wrote:
> can python make powerfull database web applications that can replace
> desktop database applications? e.g: entrprise accounting
> programs,enterprise human resource management programs ...etc
As the other replies already mentioned that these already exists, I 
would like to add that with Pyjamas you can write 'webgui' programs 
relatively easily:
http://pyjs.org/

-- 
MPH
http://blog.dcuktec.com
'If consumed, best digested with added seasoning to own preference.'


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Mon Aug 24 07:21:03 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 13:21:03 +0200
Subject: basic thread question
References: <20090818201015.GP20434@dragontoe.org>
	
	<4a922086$0$1619$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	
	
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Dave Angel  (DA) wrote:

>DA> Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
>>> On Sun, 23 Aug 2009 22:14:17 -0700, John Nagle 
>>> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Multiple Python processes can run concurrently, but each process
>>>> has a copy of the entire Python system, so the memory and cache footprints are
>>>> far larger than for multiple threads.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> One would think a smart enough OS would be able to share the
>>> executable (interpreter) code, and only create a new stack/heap
>>> allocation for data.
>>> 
>DA> That's what fork is all about.  (See os.fork(), available on most
>DA> Unix/Linux)  The two processes start out sharing their state, and only the
>DA> things subsequently written need separate swap space.

But os.fork() is not available on Windows. And I guess refcounts et al.
will soon destroy the sharing.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Mon Aug 24 07:33:07 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 13:33:07 +0200
Subject: your favorite debugging tool?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A927A73.5080207@sequans.com>

Esmail wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> What is your favorite tool to help you debug your
> code? I've been getting along with 'print' statements
> but that is getting old and somewhat cumbersome.
>
> I'm primarily interested in utilities for Linux (but
> if you have recommendations for Windows, I'll take
> them too :)
>
> I use emacs as my primary development environment, FWIW.
> Someone mentioned winpdb .. anyone have experience/comments
> on this? Others?
>
> Thanks,
> Esmail
>
I execute the program within IPython.
 >>> run test.py

I usually write a CTRL+C except clause that will spawn an Ipython shell 
so I can inspect the namespace at that time.
I'm also using the ipdb to spawn the debugger.

import IPython
ipdb = IPython.Debugger.Pdb(color_scheme='Linux')
ipdb.set_trace()

it spawns the IPython debugger, allowing step by step execution, code 
inspection, changing the namespace. You get all the IPython benefits 
(espacially the TAB completion, history ...)

I used to proceed with print statements, but they are some situations 
where it won't just make it. Sometimes the code is so complex you can't 
anticipate all the required prints to catch a bug.

JM


From bieffe62 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 07:42:29 2009
From: bieffe62 at gmail.com (Francesco Bochicchio)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 04:42:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Newbie: list comprehension troubles..
References: 
Message-ID: <86e872ed-eb86-4def-ad55-49ee60f61cf0@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On 24 Ago, 01:27, mm  wrote:
> Hi, I'm trying to replace this...
>
> ? ? ? ? # this works but there must be a more pythonic way, right?
> ? ? ? ? tlist = []
> ? ? ? ? for obj in self.objs:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? t = obj.intersect(ray)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? if (t != None):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? tlist.append((obj,t))
>
> with a list comprehension- can it be done?
>
> What I need to do is iterate over a list of graphics primitives and
> call their intersect method. If the returned t value is not None then
> I want to store the obj refernence and its t value in a list of tuples
> for further processing. I've tried stuff like ...
>
> ? ? ? ? tlist = [(obj,t) for obj,t in (self.objs, obj.intersect(ray))
> if (t != None)]
> ? ? ? ? tlist = [(obj,t) for obj in self.objs for t in obj.intersect
> (ray) ]
> ? ? ? ? print ">>> ",len(tlist), tlist
>
> but they don't work. Any help greatly appreciated. matt

What about this:

def intersections(objlist, ray):
     for obj in objlist: yield obj, obj.intersect(ray)
tlist = [(obj, t) in intersections(self.objs, ray) if t != None ]

It is still quite readable but a bit more compact. More efficient?
Maybe.

Ciao
----
FB




From nospam at nospam.com  Mon Aug 24 08:08:40 2009
From: nospam at nospam.com (Gilles Ganault)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:08:40 +0200
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
Message-ID: 

Hello

	I was wondering if some people in this ng use Python and some GUI
toolkit (PyWin32, wxWidgets, QT, etc.) to build professional
applications, and if yes, what it's like, the pros and cons, etc.

I'm especially concerned about the lack of controls, the lack of
updates (lots of controls in wxWidgets are 1.0 deadware), and problems
linked to how to update users' PC remotely when I build a new version
using eg. Py2exe.

I need controls for business apps like access to databases, good data
grid, printing reports (with or without barcodes), etc.

Thank you.


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Mon Aug 24 08:08:47 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:08:47 +0200
Subject: Is Python what I need?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <224ed882-b78e-4b75-afa8-35c907096469@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4A9282CF.3000204@sequans.com>

Peter Otten wrote:
> newbie wrote:
>
>   
>> I'm interested in developing computer based, interactive programs for
>> students in a special school who have an aversion to pen and paper.
>> I've searched the net to find ready made software that will meet my
>> needs but it is either written to a level much higher than these
>> students can cope with or priced beyond our school budget. I came
>> across a blog of someone singing the praises of Python. My question is
>> therefore aimed at those that know what they are talking about (ie
>> users in this group). Is Python the language I need to learn to
>> develop these programs?
>>     
>
> >From the distance it looks like these children need a good teacher rather 
> than a bad (or just starting) programmer. 
Wow, that is rude. Let's keep this list friendly, won't we ?

JM


From nevillednz at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 08:22:42 2009
From: nevillednz at gmail.com (NevilleDNZ)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 05:22:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
References:  
	
	 
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com> 
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 23, 9:42 pm, James Harris 
wrote:
> The numbers above would be
>
>   0b1011, 0t7621, 0xc26b

Algol68 has the type BITS, that is converted to INT with the ABS
operator.
The numbers above would be:
>   2r1011, 8r7621, 16rc26b

"r" is for radix: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radix

The standard supports 2r, 4r, 8r & 16r only.

The standard supports LONG BITS, LONG LONG BITS etc, but does not
include UNSIGNED.

Compare gcc's:

bash$ cat num_lit.c
#include 
main(){
  printf("%d %d %d %d\n",0xffff,07777,9999,0b1111);
}

bash$ ./num_lit
65535 4095 9999 15


With Algol68's: https://sourceforge.net/projects/algol68/

bash$ cat num_lit.a68
main:(
  printf(($g$,ABS 16rffff,ABS 8r7777,9999,ABS 2r1111,$l$))
)

bash$ algol68g ./num_lit.a68
     +65535      +4095      +9999        +15

Enjoy
N


From dmw at coder.cl  Mon Aug 24 08:29:48 2009
From: dmw at coder.cl (Daniel Molina Wegener)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:29:48 -0400
Subject: [ANN] pyxser-1.2r --- Python-Object to XML serialization module
References: <2571343.k9db9GJWqV@coder.cl>
	<4a923e50$0$32664$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <2665032.o6QR52tnKS@coder.cl>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Stefan Behnel 
on Monday 24 August 2009 03:16
wrote in comp.lang.python:


> Daniel Molina Wegener wrote:
>>         * Added encoded serialization of Unicode strings by using
>>         the user defined encoding as is passed to the serialization
>>         functions as enc parameter
>> 
>> As you see, now Unicode strings are serialized as encoded byte string
>> by using the encoding that the user pass as enc parameter to the
>> serialization function. This means that Unicode strings are serialized
>> in a human readable form, regarding a better interoperability with
>> other platforms.
> 
> You mean, the whole XML document is serialised with that encoding, right?

Well, if you call pyxser with:

xmldocstr = pyxser.serialize(obj = someobj, enc = "utf-8", depth = 3)

pyxser will serialize someobj into XML document (xmldocstr) using the
utf-8 encoding with a depth of three levels in the object tree. If the
object tree has unicode objects, those objects will be encoded into
utf-8 too. And yes, it means that unicode objects are encoded into the
encoding that the XML document encoding has, and as you say, the whole
XML document has one encoding. There is no mixing of byte encoded strings
with different encodings in the outout document.

When the object is restored, by using pyxser.unserialize:

pyobj = pyxser.unserialize(obj = xmldocstr, enc = "utf-8")

Unicode objects are restored as unicode objects, by decoding the utf-8
strings on the document. Byte string objects are restored as byte string
objects. And the other types of objects are restored as their original
type.

Another issue is the fact that if you have mixed some encodings in byte
strings objects in your object tree, such as iso-8859-1 and utf-8, and
you try to serialize that object, pyxser will output to stdout the 
serialization errors by trying to handle those mixed encodings which are
not regarding the document encoding.

There are some restrictions, if the class of the object is declared on
the __main__ module, pyxser can not handle it... This is a bug but I'm
expecting to solve it in near future.

A depth level of zero (depth = 0) will serialize the complete object
tree with a fixed limit of 50 levels, pyxser can handle cross referenced
objects and circular references.

Sorry if don't answer more questions until we reach the night --- here
in Chile --- the night, I must go to my job right now, and there I don't
have access to usenet or google groups.

> 
> Stefan

Best regards,
- -- 
 .O. | Daniel Molina Wegener   | FreeBSD & Linux
 ..O | dmw [at] coder [dot] cl | Open Standards
 OOO | http://coder.cl/        | FOSS Developer
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From ryniek90 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 08:44:59 2009
From: ryniek90 at gmail.com (Ryniek90)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:44:59 +0200
Subject: Temat:,Re: IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename: in
	windows xp while making tarfile
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A928B4B.9030502@gmail.com>


>> John Machin wrote:
>>     
>>> Erik Max Francis  alcyone.com> writes:
>>>       
>   
>   
>> I also suspect the "pipe" symbol. I don't know if it's an invalid 
>> character to Windows, but it's certainly a bad idea.  The '|' character 
>> means something special to the shell.
>>     
>
> The "pipe" character is not a valid character in a Windows file.
> Despite the OP's message wrapping the filename in "pipes",
> there are no pipes in the filename in the traceback to
> which he posted a link.  Wrapping the filename in "pipes"
> and the cryptic reference to "the '|\U' literal fault"
> appear to be side-issue bogglements.
>
>  >>> open('boggle|txt', 'wb')
>  Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "", line 1, in 
>  IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename: 'boggle|txt'
>  >>> open('|boggle.txt|', 'wb')
>  Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "", line 1, in 
>  IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename: '|boggle.txt|'
>
>
>
>   

Sorry, but i don't know where those pipes came from  : P

The proper path is "C:\\Users\\Ryniek's 
WinSe7en\\MyNewGGBackup(2009-08-23 14:59:02).tar.bz2"
and that string literal is "\U", without any pipes  :)

The truth is that script works on linux (ubuntu) but not on windows 
(neither Win7 nor WinXP).
Maybe it's good idea to use raw string for specifing those paths?

As i mentioned later, some python users had the same problem with this 
IOError ( like here: http://www.daniweb.com/forums/thread174552.html  or 
here: 
http://groups.google.com/group/sympy/browse_thread/thread/c42aca3eb532928c 
).




From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Aug 24 09:00:06 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:00:06 +0200
Subject: [ANN] pyxser-1.2r --- Python-Object to XML serialization module
In-Reply-To: <2665032.o6QR52tnKS@coder.cl>
References: <2571343.k9db9GJWqV@coder.cl>
	<4a923e50$0$32664$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
	<2665032.o6QR52tnKS@coder.cl>
Message-ID: <4a928ed7$0$32666$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>

Daniel Molina Wegener wrote:
> unicode objects are encoded into the
> encoding that the XML document encoding has, and as you say, the whole
> XML document has one encoding. There is no mixing of byte encoded strings
> with different encodings in the outout document.

Ok, that's what I hoped anyway. It just wasn't clear from your description.


> When the object is restored, by using pyxser.unserialize:
> 
> pyobj = pyxser.unserialize(obj = xmldocstr, enc = "utf-8")

But this is XML, right? What do you need to pass the encoding for at this
point?


> Another issue is the fact that if you have mixed some encodings in byte
> strings objects in your object tree, such as iso-8859-1 and utf-8, and
> you try to serialize that object, pyxser will output to stdout the 
> serialization errors by trying to handle those mixed encodings which are
> not regarding the document encoding.

There shouldn't be any serialisation errors (unless you try to recode byte
strings on the way out, which is a no-no for arbitrary user input). All you
have to do is properly escape the byte string so that it passes the XML
encoding step.

One trick to do that is to decode the byte string as ISO-8859-1 and
serialise the result as a normal Unicode string. Then you can re-encode the
unicode string on input back to ISO-8859-1.

I choose ISO-8859-1 here because it has the well-defined side-effect of
mapping byte values directly to Unicode characters with an identical code
point value. So you do not risk any failures or data loss.

Stefan


From mwilson at the-wire.com  Mon Aug 24 09:05:24 2009
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:05:24 -0400
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal
	notation
References: 
	
	
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
	
	
	<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

James Harris wrote:

> On 24 Aug, 02:19, Max Erickson  wrote:
[ ... ]
>> >>> int('100', 3)
>> 9
>> >>> int('100', 36)
>> 1296
> 
> This is fine typed into the language directly but couldn't be entered
> by the user or read-in from or written to a file.

That's rather beside the point.  Literals don't essentially come from files 
or user input.  Essentially literals are a subset of expressions, just like 
function calls are, and they have to be evaluated by Python to yield a 
value.  I'm not averse to 32'rst', but we already have

Python 2.6.2 (release26-maint, Apr 19 2009, 01:56:41) 
[GCC 4.3.3] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> int ('rst', 32)
28573

	Mel.

> 
> James




From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Mon Aug 24 09:07:58 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:07:58 +0200
Subject: conditional for-statement
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4a9290ad$0$406$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

seb a ?crit :
> Hi,
> 
> i was wondering if there is a syntax alike:
> 
> for i in range(10) if i > 5:
>     print i
> 
> equivalent to
> 
> for i in (for i in range(10) if i>5):
>     print i

what about :

for i in range(6, 10):
     print i




More seriously:

for i in range(10):
     if i > 5:
         print i


From jjalocha at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 09:13:40 2009
From: jjalocha at gmail.com (Jerzy Jalocha N)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:13:40 -0400
Subject: P3 weird sys.stdout.write()
Message-ID: <9b72f9a90908240613i513597bbk83a30946ab0b04ae@mail.gmail.com>

I've stumbled upon the following in Python 3:

Python 3.0.1+ (r301:69556, Apr 15 2009, 15:59:22)
[GCC 4.3.3] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import sys
>>> sys.stdout.write("")
0
>>> sys.stdout.write("something")
something9
>>>

write() is appending the length of the string to it's output. That's
not how it worked in 2.6.

What's the reason for this? Is this intended? I couldn't find a bug
report for this.


From deets at nospam.web.de  Mon Aug 24 09:21:31 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:21:31 +0200
Subject: P3 weird sys.stdout.write()
References: 
Message-ID: <7ffierF2ken49U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Jerzy Jalocha N wrote:

> I've stumbled upon the following in Python 3:
> 
> Python 3.0.1+ (r301:69556, Apr 15 2009, 15:59:22)
> [GCC 4.3.3] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> import sys
>>>> sys.stdout.write("")
> 0
>>>> sys.stdout.write("something")
> something9
>>>>
> 
> write() is appending the length of the string to it's output. That's
> not how it worked in 2.6.
> 
> What's the reason for this? Is this intended? I couldn't find a bug
> report for this.

Write returns the number of bytes written. And because you don't capture
that output into a variable, the interpreter puts it out as well.

If you do 

>>> n = sys.stdout.write("")

instead, you won't see the behavior.

Diez


From andre.roberge at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 09:22:36 2009
From: andre.roberge at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9?=)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 06:22:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: P3 weird sys.stdout.write()
References: 
Message-ID: <9ad77db9-08a7-474d-b6a3-588e82cd8b85@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 24, 10:13?am, Jerzy Jalocha N  wrote:
> I've stumbled upon the following in Python 3:
>
> Python 3.0.1+ (r301:69556, Apr 15 2009, 15:59:22)
> [GCC 4.3.3] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>
> >>> import sys
> >>> sys.stdout.write("")
> 0
> >>> sys.stdout.write("something")
> something9
>
> write() is appending the length of the string to it's output.


Not quite right, see below.

> That's
> not how it worked in 2.6.
>
> What's the reason for this? Is this intended? I couldn't find a bug
> report for this.

I don't know what the reason for the change, but try the following:

>>> out = sys.stdout.write("test\n")
test
>>> out
5


What you are seeing is the concatenation of the return value of the
write() method with its output.

Andr?


From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Aug 24 09:32:48 2009
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:32:48 +0200
Subject: Is Python what I need?
References: <224ed882-b78e-4b75-afa8-35c907096469@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:

>> >From the distance it looks like these children need a good teacher
>> >rather than a bad (or just starting) programmer.

> Wow, that is rude. Let's keep this list friendly, won't we ?

I may have been too blunt, and if my message has come across as an insult I 
apologize for that. Let me try again:

If you are trying to teach children that are unwilling to use pen and paper 
putting them in front of a computer doesn't help you and them one bit. As a 
starting programmer you'll have to spend a lot of time in front of your 
computer that may be better spent with your students.

Better?

Peter



From code at pizzashack.org  Mon Aug 24 09:42:31 2009
From: code at pizzashack.org (Derek Martin)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:42:31 -0500
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: <02a0ce27$0$30337$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 
	<0018e1a0$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<02a0ce27$0$30337$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <20090824134231.GZ20434@dragontoe.org>

On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 06:13:31AM +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 22:19:01 -0500, Derek Martin wrote:
> > On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 02:55:51AM +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> >> And the great thing is that now you get to teach yourself to stop
> >> writing octal numbers implicitly and be write them explicitly with a
> >> leading 0o instead :)
> > 
> > Sorry, I don't write them implicitly.  A leading zero explicitly states
> > that the numeric constant that follows is octal.
> 
> That is incorrect.

No, it simply isn't.  It is a stated specification in most popular
programming languages that an integer preceded by a leading zero is an
octal number.  That makes it explicit, when used by a programmer to
write an octal literal.  By definition.  End of discussion.

> (Explicitness isn't a binary state

Of course it is.  Something can be either stated or implied... there
are no shades in between.  Perhaps you mean "obvious and intutitive"
where you are using the word "explicit" above (and that would be a
matter of subjective opinion).  The leading zero, however, is
undoubtedly explicit.  It is an explicitly written token which, in
that context, has the meaning that the digits that follow are an octal
number.  One simply needs to be aware of that aspect of the
specification of the programming language, and one will clearly know
that it is octal.

My point in mentioning that many other programming languages, by the
way, was NOT to suggest that, "See, look here, all these other folks
do it that way too, so it must be right."  It was to refute the notion that 
the leading zero as octal was in some way unusual.  It is, in fact,
ubiquitous in computing, taught roughly in the first week of any
beginning computing course using nearly any modern popular programming
language, and discussed within the first full page of text in the
section on numerical literals in _Learning Python_ (and undoubtedly
many other books on Python).  It may be a surprise the first time you
run into it, but you typically won't forget that detail after you run
into it the first time.

> However, octal numbers are defined implicitly: 012 is a legal base 10 
> number, or base 3, or base 9, or base 16. 

Not in any programming language I use today, it's not.  In all of
those, 012 is an octal integer literal, per the language spec.

> There's nothing about a leading zero that says "base 8" apart from
> familiarity. 

That is simply untrue.  What says base 8 about a leading zero is the
formal specification of the programming language.  

The only way using octal could be implicit in the code is if you
wrote something like:

  x = 12 

in your code, and then had to pass a flag to your compiler or
interpreter to tell it that you meant to use octal integer literals
instead of decimal ones.  That, of course, would be insane.  But
specifying a leading zero to represent an octal number zero is very
much explicit, by definition.

> We can see the difference between leading 0x and leading 0 if you
> repeat it: repeating an explicit 0x, as in 0x0xFF, is a syntax
> error, while repeating an implicit 0 silently does nothing
> different:

No, we can't.  Just as you can type 0012, you can also type 0x0FF.
It's not different AT ALL.  In both cases, the marker designated by
the programming language as the base indicator can be followed by an
arbitrary number of zeros which do not impact the magnitude of the
integer so specified.  Identical behavior.  The key is simply to
understand that the first 0 is not a digit -- it's a syntactic marker,
an operator if you will (though Python may not technically think of it
that way).  The definition of '0' is overloaded, just as other
language tokens often are.  This, too, is hardly unusual.

> There are a bunch of languages, pretty much all heavily influenced
> by C, which treat integer literals with leading 0s as oct: C++,
> Javascript, Python 2.x, Ruby, Perl, Java. As so often is the case,
> C's design mistakes become common practice. Sigh.

That it is a design mistake is a matter of opinion.  Obviously the
people who designed it didn't think it was a mistake, and neither do
I.  If you search the web for this topic (I did), you will find no
shortage of people who think the recent movement to irradicate the
leading zero to be frustrating, annoying, and/or stupid.  And by
the way, this representation predates C.  It was at least present in
B.

> FORTRAN 90 uses a leading O (uppercase o) for octal

That clearly IS a design mistake, because O is virtually
indistinguishable from 0, especially considering varying fonts and
people's variable eye sight quality.

> Algol uses an explicit base: 8r12 to indicate octal 10.

This is far better than 0o01.  I maintain that 0o1 is only marginally
better than O01 (from your fortran example) or 0O1, allowed by Python.
The string 8r12 has the nicety that it can easily be used to represent
integers of any radix in a consistent fashion.  But I maintain that
the leading zero is just fine, and changing it after 20 years of
Python seems more than a little arbitrary and brain-damaged to me.

> > Computer languages are not write-only, excepting maybe Perl. ;-) Writing
> > 0o12 presents no hardship; but I assert, with at least some support from
> > others here, that *reading* it does.
> 
> No more so than 0x or 0b literals. If anything, 0o12 stands out as "not 
> twelve" far more than 012 does.

Obviously, I don't agree.

Moving on... I've wasted enough time arguing about this.

-- 
Derek D. Martin
http://www.pizzashack.org/
GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D

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From jjalocha at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 09:44:47 2009
From: jjalocha at gmail.com (Jerzy Jalocha N)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:44:47 -0400
Subject: P3 weird sys.stdout.write()
In-Reply-To: <9b72f9a90908240613i513597bbk83a30946ab0b04ae@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9b72f9a90908240613i513597bbk83a30946ab0b04ae@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9b72f9a90908240644i77caaa0avb3c305925be86092@mail.gmail.com>

>>> import sys
>>> n = sys.stdout.write('something')
something>>> n
9
>>>

Yes, that works as expected, now, similar to 2.6.
Thank you both, Diez and Andr?!

-Jerzy


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Mon Aug 24 09:46:02 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 06:46:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
	
	<1j4ww90.pvvxweehycu0N%nospam@see.signature>
	<5134d9f1-0e23-4e05-a817-bf0cc9e85d3e@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On 24 Aug, 10:24, n... at cam.ac.uk wrote:
> In article <5134d9f1-0e23-4e05-a817-bf0cc9e85... at w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>,
>
> sturlamolden ? wrote:
> >On 24 Aug, 02:26, nos... at see.signature (Richard Maine) wrote:
>
> >> You missed the word "OOP", which seemed like the whole point. Not that
> >> the particular word is used in the Fortran standard, but it isn't hard
> >> to guess that he means a derived type that uses some of the OOP
> >> features. Inheritance, polymorphism, and type-bound procedure (aka
> >> methods in some other languages) come to mind.
>
> >But C is not OOP. The ISO C bindings in Fortran are not ISO C++
> >bindings. This is for a reason: C++ does not have a standard ABI like
> >ISO C.
>
> Nor does C. ?Almost everything that most people believe about C is
> wrong, because C is not well-defined at any level, so there are
> many twisty little C languages, all different.
>
> Richard is perfectly correct that my point was OOP. ?C interoperability
> does not apply to any derived type with type-bound procedures, which
> include finalizers. ?Note that this ALSO forbids them from being
> passed as data, even if the other language never uses the OOP features
> of the type.


You also made this claim regarding Fortran's C interop with strings:


"No, I mean things like 'Kilroy was here'.  Currently, Fortran's C
interoperability supports only strings of length 1, and you have
to kludge them up as arrays.  That doesn't work very well, especially
for things like function results."


This obviosuly proves you wrong:


subroutine foobar(fstr)
    ! this is the Fortran function we want to call from C
    ! it takes a variable length string as argument and
    ! print its length
    character(*) :: fstr
    write (*,*) len(fstr)
end subroutine



subroutine wrap_foobar(cstr) bind(c, name='foobar')
    ! a wrapper for foobar which we expose to C
    use, intrinsic :: iso_c_binding

    interface
        function strlen(cstr) bind(c, name='strlen')
           use, intrinsic :: iso_c_binding
           integer(c_int) :: strlen
           type(c_ptr), value :: cstr
        end function strlen
    end interface

    type(c_ptr), value :: cstr
    character(2147483647), pointer :: p_fstr
    integer :: n

    n = strlen(cstr)
    call c_f_pointer(cstr, p_fstr)
    call foobar(p_fstr(1:n))

end subroutine


I am not saying you are wrong regarding OOP derives types, but I'm not
taking your word for it. However, I am not wasting my time on Fortran
2003 OOP now, as it lacks compiler support. So I'll leave your claim
uncontested.

By the way, I am more than happy using Python for OOP and Fortran 95
for speed. As for numerical computing, I'd rather see better support
for array and matrix types in Cython than OOP in Fortran.


Regards,
Sturla Molden



From paul.vandelst at noaa.gov  Mon Aug 24 09:46:49 2009
From: paul.vandelst at noaa.gov (Paul van Delst)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:46:49 -0400
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
In-Reply-To: <800c6f66-7074-451f-8c1b-47c93d07c5a4@s13g2000yql.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	
	
	<1j4ww90.pvvxweehycu0N%nospam@see.signature>
	<5134d9f1-0e23-4e05-a817-bf0cc9e85d3e@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1j4wx7d.18cr6dvw3j79yN%nospam@see.signature>
	<800c6f66-7074-451f-8c1b-47c93d07c5a4@s13g2000yql.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

sturlamolden wrote:
> On 24 Aug, 02:57, nos... at see.signature (Richard Maine) wrote:
> 
> Does anyone use OOP in Fortran anyway?

I do - currently for learning (and eventually training) purposes so I don't distribute any
of the code. But, the fact that...

> Fortran 2003 compilers are not ubiquitous.

...is a major sticking point towards a fully engaged f2003 programme (not program :o)

> Fortran compilers tend to support a
> subset for Fortran 2003, usually ISO C bindings but not OOP.

Yeah, I'm starting to find it a little bit tiresome that vendors now appear convinced that
implementing some of the more note-worthy features of f2008 is of greater importance that
wrapping up the f2003 implementations. But, it's their business for their customers so
c'est la vie I guess

If I ignore parameterised derived types then my f2003 platform/compiler of "choice", IBM
AIX xlf2003, works well for OOP stuff.

cheers,

paulv


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Mon Aug 24 09:55:16 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:55:16 +0200
Subject: Object Reference question
In-Reply-To: 
References: <2dcf41c3-6623-48d9-bb74-97f753088479@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<8763chldpd.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
Message-ID: <4a929bc3$0$22636$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

josef a ?crit :

(snip)
 > I think that something like a = MyClass0(name =
> 'a', ...) is a bit redundant. Are definitions treated the same way?
> How would one print or pass function names?

In Python, classes and functions are objects too. The class and def 
statements are mostly syntactic sugar that *both* instanciate the (resp) 
class of function objet *and* bind it in the local namespace. FWIW, 
while class and function objects do (usually) have a __name__ attribute 
(usually the one used in the class or def statement...), this doesn't 
mean they're still bound to this name, nor that they are not bound to 
any other name:

bruno at bruno:~$ python
Python 2.6.2 (release26-maint, Apr 19 2009, 01:56:41)
[GCC 4.3.3] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
pythonrc start
pythonrc done
 >>> def foo(): print "function foo ???"
...
 >>> foo

 >>> foo.__name__
'foo'
 >>> bar = foo
 >>> bar.__name__
'foo'
 >>> bar()
function foo ???
 >>> import sys
 >>> foo = lambda: sys.stdout.write("pick a boo !\n")
 >>> foo.__name__
''
 >>> foo()
pick a boo !
 >>> funcs = [foo, bar]
 >>> del foo
 >>> funcs[0]
 at 0x8563ed4>
 >>> funcs[0]()
pick a boo !
 >>> funcs[1]

 >>> funcs[1]()
function foo ???
 >>> funcs[1].__name__
'foo'
 >>> del bar
 >>> funcs[1]()
function foo ???
 >>> funcs[1].__name__ = "yadda"
 >>> funcs[1]()
function foo ???
 >>> funcs[1].__name__
'yadda'
 >>>

HTH


From code at pizzashack.org  Mon Aug 24 09:56:48 2009
From: code at pizzashack.org (Derek Martin)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:56:48 -0500
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: <87fxbifzb7.fsf@golux.woodcraft.me.uk>
References: 
	<0018e1a0$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<20090823031901.GX20434@dragontoe.org>
	
	<87fxbifzb7.fsf@golux.woodcraft.me.uk>
Message-ID: <20090824135648.GA20434@dragontoe.org>

On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 01:13:32PM +0000, Matthew Woodcraft wrote:
> Dennis Lee Bieber  writes:
> > 	About the only place one commonly sees leading zeros on decimal
> > numbers, in my experience, is zero-filled COBOL data decks (and since
> > classic COBOL stores in BCD anyway... binary (usage is
> > computational/comp-1) was a later add-on to the data specification model
> > as I recall...)
> 
> A more common case is dates.

I suppose this is true, but I can't remember the last time I
hard-coded a date in a program, or worked on someone else's code with
hard-coded dates.  I'm fairly certain I've never done it, and if I
had, I obviously would not have used leading zeros.  I think
hard-coding dates is more uncommon than using octal. ;-)  [It
unquestionably is, for me personally.]  I tend to also discount this
example, because when we write dates with leading zeros, usually it's
in some variation of the form 08/09/2009, which, containing slashes,
is a string, not a number, and can not be used as a date literal in
any language I know.  We do it for reasons of format, which again
implies that it has more the characteristics of a string than of a
number.  To use such a thing in any programming language I can think
of would require translation from a string.

> I've seen people trip over this writing things like
> 
> xxx = [
>     date(2009, 10, 12),
>     date(2009, 12, 26),
>     date(2010, 02, 09),
> ]

I've never seen anyone do this (no doubt because it would be an
error), but as I said, I don't think I've ever seen hard-coded dates
in any programs I've worked on.  I've never encountered anyone having
problems with octals who was not a total noob at programming.  The
changing of this syntax seems like much ado about nothing to me, and
as such is annoying, consider that I use it very often.

-- 
Derek D. Martin
http://www.pizzashack.org/
GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D

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From ryniek90 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 10:04:07 2009
From: ryniek90 at gmail.com (Ryniek90)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:04:07 +0200
Subject: IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename: in windows xp
	while making tarfile 
Message-ID: <4A929DD7.4070507@gmail.com>

 >> John Machin wrote:

 >>> Erik Max Francis  alcyone.com> writes:

 >> I also suspect the "pipe" symbol. I don't know if it's an invalid
 >> character to Windows, but it's certainly a bad idea.  The '|' character
 >> means something special to the shell.

 > The "pipe" character is not a valid character in a Windows file.
 > Despite the OP's message wrapping the filename in "pipes",
 > there are no pipes in the filename in the traceback to
 > which he posted a link.  Wrapping the filename in "pipes"
 > and the cryptic reference to "the '|\U' literal fault"
 > appear to be side-issue bogglements.

 >  >>> open('boggle|txt', 'wb')
 >  Traceback (most recent call last):
 >    File "", line 1, in 
 >  IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename: 'boggle|txt'
 >  >>> open('|boggle.txt|', 'wb')
 >  Traceback (most recent call last):
 >    File "", line 1, in 
 >  IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename: '|boggle.txt|'

Sorry, but i don't know where those pipes came from  : P

The proper path is "C:\\Users\\Ryniek's
WinSe7en\\MyNewGGBackup(2009-08-23 14:59:02).tar.bz2"
and that string literal is "\U", without any pipes  :)

The truth is that script works on linux (ubuntu) but not on windows
(neither Win7 nor WinXP).
Maybe it's good idea to use raw string for specifing those paths?

As i mentioned later, some python users had the same problem with this
IOError ( like here: http://www.daniweb.com/forums/thread174552.html  or
here:
http://groups.google.com/group/sympy/browse_thread/thread/c42aca3eb53... 
 

).



From code at pizzashack.org  Mon Aug 24 10:14:25 2009
From: code at pizzashack.org (Derek Martin)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:14:25 -0500
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: <20090824135648.GA20434@dragontoe.org>
References: 
	<0018e1a0$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<20090823031901.GX20434@dragontoe.org>
	
	<87fxbifzb7.fsf@golux.woodcraft.me.uk>
	<20090824135648.GA20434@dragontoe.org>
Message-ID: <20090824141425.GB20434@dragontoe.org>

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 08:56:48AM -0500, Derek Martin wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 01:13:32PM +0000, Matthew Woodcraft wrote:
> > A more common case is dates.
> 
> I suppose this is true, but [...]
> I tend to also discount this example, because when we write dates
> with leading zeros, usually it's in some variation of the form
> 08/09/2009, which, containing slashes, is a string, not a number

In fact, now that I think of it...

I just looked at some old school papers I had tucked away in a family
album.  I'm quite sure that in grammar school, I was tought to use a
date format of 8/9/79, without leading zeros.  I can't prove it, of
course, but feel fairly sure that the prevalence of leading zeros in
dates occured only in the mid to late 1980's as computers became more
prevalent in our society (no doubt because thousands of cobol
programmers writing business apps needed a way to convert dates as
strings to numbers that was easy and fit in small memory).

Assuming I'm right about that, then the use of a leading 0 to
represent octal actually predates the prevalence of using 0 in dates
by almost two decades.  And while using leading zeros in other
contexts is "familiar" to me, I would certainly not consider it
"common" by any means.  Thus I think it's fair to say that when this
syntax was selected, it was a rather good choice.

-- 
Derek D. Martin
http://www.pizzashack.org/
GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D

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From victorsubervi at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 10:17:04 2009
From: victorsubervi at gmail.com (Victor Subervi)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:17:04 -0500
Subject: Trying To Catch Invalid User Input
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4dc0cfea0908230804o29a328ecmdb99af2ef790f5ac@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <4dc0cfea0908240717y562d89dcqb84bef146fcd08f4@mail.gmail.com>

That's nice. Thanks!
V

On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

> On Sun, 23 Aug 2009 10:04:57 -0500, Victor Subervi
>  declaimed the following in
> gmane.comp.python.general:
>
> > Hi;
> > I have the following:
> >
> > style = raw_input('What style is this? (1 = short, 2 = long): ')
> > flag = 0
> > while flag == 0:
> >   if (style != 1) or (style != 2):
> >     style = raw_input('There was a mistake. What style is this? (1 =
> short,
> > 2 = long): ')
> >   else:
> >     flag = 1
> >
>         Ugh... Unless you are using an archaic version of Python, the
> language has support for booleans...
>
> done = False
> while not done:
>        ...
>        done = True
>
>
>        You fail to convert the character input from raw_input into an
> integer for comparison... Oh, and you say the input is wrong if it is
> NOT 1 OR NOT 2... 1 is not 2, and 2 is not 1, so... even if you did
> convert to an integer, it would be rejected.
>
>        Consider:
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> while True:
>    charin = raw_input("What style is this? (1: short, 2: long): ")
>    try:
>        style = int(charin)
>    except:             #I know, should not use naked except clause
>        print ("The input '%s' is not a valid integer value; try again"
>                % charin)
>    else:
>        if style in (1, 2): break
>        print ("The input value '%s' is not in the valid range; try
> again"
>               % style)
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> {Watch out for line wraps}
> Works in Python 2.5
>
> E:\UserData\Dennis Lee Bieber\My Documents>python Script1.py
> What style is this? (1: short, 2: long): ab1
> The input 'ab1' is not a valid integer value; try again
> What style is this? (1: short, 2: long): 1a
> The input '1a' is not a valid integer value; try again
> What style is this? (1: short, 2: long): 12
> The input value '12' is not in the valid range; try again
> What style is this? (1: short, 2: long): 2
>
> E:\UserData\Dennis Lee Bieber\My Documents>
>
> --
>        Wulfraed         Dennis Lee Bieber               KD6MOG
>        wlfraed at ix.netcom.com   HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Mon Aug 24 10:20:32 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 07:20:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: basic thread question
References: 
Message-ID: <4ddd2bd2-de39-487f-95ad-64c670a9b710@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>

On 18 Aug, 22:10, Derek Martin  wrote:

> I have some simple threaded code... ?If I run this
> with an arg of 1 (start one thread), it pegs one cpu, as I would
> expect. ?If I run it with an arg of 2 (start 2 threads), it uses both
> CPUs, but utilization of both is less than 50%. ?Can anyone explain
> why? ?

Access to the Python interpreter is serialized by the global
interpreter lock (GIL). You created two threads the OS could schedule,
but they competed for access to the Python interpreter. If you want to
utilize more than one CPU, you have to release the GIL or use multiple
processes instead (os.fork since you are using Linux).

This is how the GIL can be released:

* Many functions in Python's standard library, particularly all
blocking i/o functions, release the GIL. This covers the by far most
common use of threads.

* In C or C++ extensions, use the macros Py_BEGIN_ALLOW_THREADS and
Py_END_ALLOW_THREADS.

* With ctypes, functions called from a cdll release the GIL, whereas
functions called from a pydll do not.

* In f2py, declaring a Fortran function threadsafe in a .pyf file or
cf2py comment releases the GIL.

* In Cython or Pyrex extensions, use a "with nogil:" block to execute
code without holding the GIL.


Sturla Molden


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Mon Aug 24 10:31:57 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 07:31:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: basic thread question
References: <20090818201015.GP20434@dragontoe.org>
	 
	<4a922086$0$1619$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>  
	
	
Message-ID: <4224e772-5b67-4eea-9bdf-a7d2bf7cc128@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On 24 Aug, 13:21, Piet van Oostrum  wrote:

> But os.fork() is not available on Windows. And I guess refcounts et al.
> will soon destroy the sharing.

Well, there is os.fork in Cygwin and SUA (SUA is the Unix subsytem in
Windows Vista Professional). Cygwin's fork is a bit sluggish.

Multiprocessing works on Windows and Linux alike.

Apart from that, how are you going to use threads? The GIL will not be
a problem if it can be released. Mostly, the GIL is a hypothetical
problem. It is only a problem for compute-bound code written in pure
Python. But very few use Python for that. However, if you do and can
afford the 200x speed penalty from using Python (instead of C, C++,
Fortran, Cython), you can just as well accept that only one CPU is
used.


Sturla Molden













From drobinow at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 10:33:45 2009
From: drobinow at gmail.com (David Robinow)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:33:45 -0400
Subject: Is Python what I need?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <224ed882-b78e-4b75-afa8-35c907096469@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
Message-ID: <4eb0089f0908240733h17f02cbte4154bf552404509@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 9:32 AM, Peter Otten<__peter__ at web.de> wrote:
> If you are trying to teach children that are unwilling to use pen and paper
> putting them in front of a computer doesn't help you and them one bit. As a
> starting programmer you'll have to spend a lot of time in front of your
> computer that may be better spent with your students.
 I don't think you were rude at all, but I like your second answer
even more than the first.
Nevertheless, I'd still like to hear from the Original Poster.

What are you trying to accomplish?
What software have you found that is too expensive?

Given more information, somebody might be able to help.


From ronn.ross at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 10:35:09 2009
From: ronn.ross at gmail.com (Ronn Ross)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:35:09 -0400
Subject: Reading binary files
Message-ID: <9c8c445f0908240735k6599045dn5ecbd63fa76bfe6e@mail.gmail.com>

I need to read a binary file. When I open it up in a text editor it is just
junk. Does Python have a class to help with this?
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From garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk  Mon Aug 24 10:35:56 2009
From: garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk (garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:35:56 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying
	octal?notation
References: 
	
	
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	 <87ljlahbn9.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
Message-ID: 

J. Cliff Dyer  wrote:
> I had an objection to using spaces in numeric literals last time around
> and it still stands, and it still stands in the new one.
> 

Or, we can use U+00A0 NO-BREAK SPACE, once we already have unicode
variable names :-)
(probably some people would find it difficult to type, though
with my keyboard layout it is COMPOSE + SPACE + SPACE, not 
more difficult than _).
Well, reading code listings could be a bit confusing.
Thinking about it, U+2005 FOUR-PER-EM SPACE makes more sense.
Aesthetically, too :-)

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------
| Radovan Garab?k http://kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk/~garabik/ |
| __..--^^^--..__    garabik @ kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk     |
 -----------------------------------------------------------
Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus.
Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!


From davea at dejaviewphoto.com  Mon Aug 24 10:36:42 2009
From: davea at dejaviewphoto.com (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:36:42 -0400
Subject: Temat:,Re: IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename:
	in	windows xp while making tarfile
In-Reply-To: <4A928B4B.9030502@gmail.com>
References: 
	<4A928B4B.9030502@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A92A57A.5010105@dejaviewphoto.com>

Ryniek90 wrote:
> 

>>> John Machin wrote:
>>>    
>>>> Erik Max Francis  alcyone.com> writes:
>>>>       
>>    
>>> I also suspect the "pipe" symbol. I don't know if it's an invalid 
>>> character to Windows, but it's certainly a bad idea.  The '|' 
>>> character means something special to the shell.
>>>     
>>
>> The "pipe" character is not a valid character in a Windows file.
>> Despite the OP's message wrapping the filename in "pipes",
>> there are no pipes in the filename in the traceback to
>> which he posted a link.  Wrapping the filename in "pipes"
>> and the cryptic reference to "the '|\U' literal fault"
>> appear to be side-issue bogglements.
>>
>>  >>> open('boggle|txt', 'wb')
>>  Traceback (most recent call last):
>>    File "", line 1, in 
>>  IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename: 'boggle|txt'
>>  >>> open('|boggle.txt|', 'wb')
>>  Traceback (most recent call last):
>>    File "", line 1, in 
>>  IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename: '|boggle.txt|'
>>
>>
>>
>>   
>
> Sorry, but i don't know where those pipes came from  : P
>
> The proper path is "C:\\Users\\Ryniek's 
> WinSe7en\\MyNewGGBackup(2009-08-23 14:59:02).tar.bz2"
> and that string literal is "\U", without any pipes  :)
>
> The truth is that script works on linux (ubuntu) but not on windows 
> (neither Win7 nor WinXP).
> Maybe it's good idea to use raw string for specifing those paths?
>
> As i mentioned later, some python users had the same problem with this 
> IOError ( like here: http://www.daniweb.com/forums/thread174552.html  
> or here: 
> http://groups.google.com/group/sympy/browse_thread/thread/c42aca3eb532928c 
> ).
>
>
>
> 

>
You still haven't gotten rid of those illegal colons in the filename.  
They're not legal in Windows, as has been pointed out a couple of times 
in this thread.

DaveA


From aotto1968 at users.sourceforge.net  Mon Aug 24 10:40:21 2009
From: aotto1968 at users.sourceforge.net (Andreas Otto)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:40:21 +0200
Subject: problem to write a THREAD enabled python extension
Message-ID: 


Hi,

  the following scenario:
   
 1. using GIL
 2. a pthread is created in a library and have to be "announced" to python
 3. the thread is created in a "PyObject_CallObject" function call from
      extension c code using a other extension c-code function called
      from python code

 python CRASH with invalid thread-state object
  http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/3641
 has information that GIL is NOT able to keep thread state information
 for cross thread operation.

workaround ->
......
PyGILState_STATE gilState = PyGILState_Ensure(); // PyEval_RestoreThread
// Call Python/C API...
PyGILState_Release(gilState); // PyEval_SaveThread
......
// Create new thread...
......
PyGILState_STATE gilState = PyGILState_Ensure(); // PyEval_RestoreThread
// Call Python/C API...
PyGILState_Release(gilState); // PyEval_SaveThread
......

the problem is that PyGILState_Release have to be done in the call of
"PyObject_CallObject" and not in the extension c-code

-> for now i call it impossible to provide thread support if thread is 
created in extension code

-> more info by valgrind
==29105==
==29105== Invalid read of size 4
==29105==    at 0x4F099AB: PyEval_EvalFrameEx (ceval.c:3728)
==29105==    by 0x4F0B476: PyEval_EvalCodeEx (ceval.c:3180)
==29105==    by 0x4E9DE50: function_call (funcobject.c:630)
==29105==    by 0x4E7610C: PyObject_Call (abstract.c:2160)
==29105==    by 0x4E8BEFB: method_call (classobject.c:323)
==29105==    by 0x4E7610C: PyObject_Call (abstract.c:2160)
==29105==    by 0x4F04975: PyEval_CallObjectWithKeywords (ceval.c:3624)
==29105==    by 0x72132DF: pymsgque_ProcCall (misc_python.c:48)
==29105==    by 0x742A23E: pTokenInvoke (token.c:327)
==29105==    by 0x742E7E2: sMqEventStart (msgque.c:908)
==29105==    by 0x7425365: pEventStart (event.c:360)
==29105==    by 0x742ECBF: MqProcessEvent (msgque.c:1081)
==29105==    by 0x7215F24: pymsgque_ProcessEvent (context_python.c:176)
==29105==    by 0x4F09BFA: PyEval_EvalFrameEx (ceval.c:3961)
==29105==    by 0x4F0B476: PyEval_EvalCodeEx (ceval.c:3180)
==29105==    by 0x4F0B58A: PyEval_EvalCode (ceval.c:650)
==29105==    by 0x4F2EE29: PyRun_FileExFlags (pythonrun.c:1697)
==29105==    by 0x4F2F134: PyRun_SimpleFileExFlags (pythonrun.c:1182)
==29105==    by 0x4F43CFB: Py_Main (main.c:625)
==29105==    by 0x400D11: main (python.c:152)
==29105==  Address 0x24 is not stack'd, malloc'd or (recently) free'd


-> extension code ... (including some debugging output)

M0
  PyGILState_STATE gstate = PyGILState_Ensure();
  PyObject *result;
  PyObject * const self = (PyObject*) CONTEXT->self;
  PyObject * const callable = (PyObject*) dataP;
  enum MqErrorE ret = MQ_OK;

  // clean Python and libmsgque error
  PyErr_Clear();
  MqErrorReset(msgque->error);

  // call the function
M1
printP(PyThreadState_Get())
  if (PyMethod_Check(callable) && PyMethod_Self(callable) == self) {
    //PyGILState_Release(gstate);
    result = PyObject_CallObject(callable, NULL);
    //gstate = PyGILState_Ensure();
  } else {
    //PyGILState_Release(gstate);
    result = PyObject_CallFunctionObjArgs(callable, self, NULL);
    //gstate = PyGILState_Ensure();
  }
M2
printP(PyThreadState_Get())
  Py_XDECREF(result);

  // no error return OK
  if (PyErr_Occurred() != NULL) {
    NS(ErrorSet) (self);
    ret = MqErrorGetCode(msgque->error);
  }
  PyGILState_Release(gstate);
  return ret;
}

with GIL wrapper 'PyGILState_Release' and 'PyGILState_Ensure' enabled for 
'PyObject_CallObject' the following SEG happen

  if (PyMethod_Check(callable) && PyMethod_Self(callable) == self) {
    PyGILState_Release(gstate);
    result = PyObject_CallObject(callable, NULL);
    gstate = PyGILState_Ensure();
  } else {
    PyGILState_Release(gstate);
    result = PyObject_CallFunctionObjArgs(callable, self, NULL);
    gstate = PyGILState_Ensure();
  }
pymsgque_ProcCall(misc_python.c:32) -> 00000000000000000
pymsgque_ProcCall(misc_python.c:44) -> 11111111111111111
pymsgque_ProcCall(misc_python.c:45) -> PyThreadState_Get()<0x68c2ad8>
==29223==
==29223== Thread 2:
==29223== Invalid read of size 4
==29223==    at 0x4E760EA: PyObject_Call (abstract.c:2158)
==29223==    by 0x4F04975: PyEval_CallObjectWithKeywords (ceval.c:3624)
==29223==    by 0x72132F7: pymsgque_ProcCall (misc_python.c:48)
==29223==    by 0x7430092: MqLinkCreate (msgque.c:644)
==29223==    by 0x7430AB0: MqDefaultLinkCreate (msgque.c:681)
==29223==    by 0x742F73B: MqLinkCreate (msgque.c:346)
==29223==    by 0x7432C3D: sSysServerThreadCreate (sys.c:502)
==29223==    by 0x521606F: start_thread (in /lib64/libpthread-2.9.so)
==29223==    by 0x5B5B10C: clone (in /lib64/libc-2.9.so)
==29223==  Address 0x18 is not stack'd, malloc'd or (recently) free'd
==29223==
==29223== Process terminating with default action of signal 11 (SIGSEGV)


mfg

  aotto1968




From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 10:41:09 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 07:41:09 -0700
Subject: Reading binary files
In-Reply-To: <9c8c445f0908240735k6599045dn5ecbd63fa76bfe6e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9c8c445f0908240735k6599045dn5ecbd63fa76bfe6e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

The built-in file type deals with this just fine. You can simply specify  
when opening the file that it is to be opened as binary:

http://docs.python.org/library/functions.html#open

On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 07:35:09 -0700, Ronn Ross  wrote:

> I need to read a binary file. When I open it up in a text editor it is  
> just
> junk. Does Python have a class to help with this?



-- 
Rami Chowdhury
"Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --  
Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)


From marduk at letterboxes.org  Mon Aug 24 10:43:59 2009
From: marduk at letterboxes.org (Albert Hopkins)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:43:59 -0400
Subject: Reading binary files
In-Reply-To: <9c8c445f0908240735k6599045dn5ecbd63fa76bfe6e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9c8c445f0908240735k6599045dn5ecbd63fa76bfe6e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1251125039.23757.0.camel@brotherus.corp.redhat.com>

On Mon, 2009-08-24 at 10:35 -0400, Ronn Ross wrote:
> I need to read a binary file. When I open it up in a text editor it is
> just junk. Does Python have a class to help with this? 

Yes, the "file" class.

>>> myfile = open('/path/to/binary/file', 'rb')

-a




From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Mon Aug 24 10:45:44 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 07:45:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 24 Aug, 14:08, Gilles Ganault  wrote:

> I'm especially concerned about the lack of controls, the lack of
> updates (lots of controls in wxWidgets are 1.0 deadware), and problems
> linked to how to update users' PC remotely when I build a new version
> using eg. Py2exe.

There is pywin32 if you like to work with MFC and ActiveX. Apart from
that, lack of controls is not what I associate with GTK, Qt or
wxWidgets.


> I need controls for business apps like access to databases, good data
> grid, printing reports (with or without barcodes), etc.

Why do you want GUI controls for this? If you think you do, Visual
Basic has crippled your mind.

Python has packages for database connectivity. There is ReportLab for
reports, matplotlib for graphs, pyagg or pycairo for whatever you want
to draw, etc. You can find Python packages for anything you can
imagine.



Sturla



From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Mon Aug 24 10:46:46 2009
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:46:46 +0100
Subject: Temat:,Re: IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename:
	in	windows xp while making tarfile
In-Reply-To: <4A92A57A.5010105@dejaviewphoto.com>
References: 	<4A928B4B.9030502@gmail.com>
	<4A92A57A.5010105@dejaviewphoto.com>
Message-ID: <4A92A7D6.4050903@timgolden.me.uk>

Dave Angel wrote:
> You still haven't gotten rid of those illegal colons in the filename.  
> They're not legal in Windows, as has been pointed out a couple of times 
> in this thread.


Ummm.. Colons are of course legal in Windows filenames as designating
the Alternate Data Streams:


with open ("c:/temp/test.txt", "w") as f:
  f.write ("base text")

with open ("c:/temp/test.txt:blah", "w") as f:
  f.write ("ADS text")

print open ("c:/temp/test.txt:blah").read ()



On the other hand, though, you can't have more than one
of them:


with open ("c:/temp/test.txt:blah:blah2", "w") as f:
  f.write ("ADS text2")



should raise an error.

TJG


From kwmsmith at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 10:49:56 2009
From: kwmsmith at gmail.com (Kurt Smith)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:49:56 -0500
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
In-Reply-To: <4a915067$0$31339$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
References: 
	<4a915067$0$31339$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: 

On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 9:21 AM, Stefan Behnel wrote:
> nmm1 at cam.ac.uk wrote:
>> I am interested in surveying people who want to interoperate between
>> Fortran and Python to find out what they would like to be able to do
>> more conveniently, especially with regard to types not supported for C
>> interoperability by the current Fortran standard. ?Any suggestions as to
>> other ways that I could survey such people (Usenet is no longer as
>> ubiquitous as it used to be) would be welcomed.
>
> You might want to ask also on the Cython, NumPy and SciPy mailing lists.
> NumPy and SciPy have a rather large audience of scientific developers, and
> Cython has a running sub-project on providing better Fortran integration
> (which might be of interest to you anyway).

Thanks for the mention, Stefan.  For those who are interested, here's
my blog summarizing the status of 'fwrap,' a Fortran wrapper utility
for the C, Cython & Python languages.

http://fortrancython.wordpress.com/

Linked there are my talk slides & presentation at last week's SciPy
2009 conference, which gives a good overview.

Kurt


From davea at ieee.org  Mon Aug 24 10:52:16 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:52:16 -0400
Subject: P3 weird sys.stdout.write()
In-Reply-To: <9b72f9a90908240613i513597bbk83a30946ab0b04ae@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9b72f9a90908240613i513597bbk83a30946ab0b04ae@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A92A920.70703@ieee.org>

Jerzy Jalocha N wrote:
> I've stumbled upon the following in Python 3:
>
> Python 3.0.1+ (r301:69556, Apr 15 2009, 15:59:22)
> [GCC 4.3.3] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>   
>>>> import sys
>>>> sys.stdout.write("")
>>>>         
> 0
>   
>>>> sys.stdout.write("something")
>>>>         
> something9
>   
>
> write() is appending the length of the string to it's output. That's
> not how it worked in 2.6.
>
> What's the reason for this? Is this intended? I couldn't find a bug
> report for this.
>
>   
(You probably should be using 3.1, but that's not your particular 
problem here.)

The write() function changed in 3.0, but not in the way you're 
describing.  It now (usually) has a return value, the count of the 
number of characters written.  See the 3.1 docs:

file.write(/str/)

    Write a string to the file. Due to buffering, the string may not
    actually show up in the file until the flush() or close() method is
    called.

    The meaning of the return value is not defined for every file-like
    object. Some (mostly low-level) file-like objects may return the
    number of bytes actually written, others return None.

But because you're running from the interpreter, you're seeing the 
return value(9), which is suppressed if it's None, which it was in 
2.x.   This has nothing to do with how the language behaves in normal use.

DaveA



From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Mon Aug 24 10:56:24 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 07:56:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Temat:, Re: IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename: 
	in windows xp while making tarfile
References:  
	<4A928B4B.9030502@gmail.com> <4A92A57A.5010105@dejaviewphoto.com> 
	
Message-ID: <4ec18c68-b8b5-401e-b910-802b7662dced@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 25, 12:46?am, Tim Golden  wrote:
> Dave Angel wrote:
> > You still haven't gotten rid of those illegal colons in the filename. ?
> > They're not legal in Windows, as has been pointed out a couple of times
> > in this thread.
>
> Ummm.. Colons are of course legal in Windows filenames as designating

That is the most inappropriate "of course" I've seen for quite a
while.

> the Alternate Data Streams:

OK, so s/illegal/evil/



From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 11:03:56 2009
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:03:56 -0700
Subject: IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename: in windows 
	xp while making tarfile
In-Reply-To: <4A929DD7.4070507@gmail.com>
References: <4A929DD7.4070507@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c20908240803v53cabd08la78e08163fae1aa7@mail.gmail.com>

>
> The proper path is "C:\\Users\\Ryniek's
> WinSe7en\\MyNewGGBackup(2009-08-23 14:59:02).tar.bz2"
> and that string literal is "\U", without any pipes  :)
>
> The truth is that script works on linux (ubuntu) but not on windows
> (neither Win7 nor WinXP).
> Maybe it's good idea to use raw string for specifing those paths?
>


Colons are not valid in filenames on Windows. You won't get that filename to
work. The error may be somewhat cryptic. Depending on the version of Windows
and the particulars of your filesystem, *attempting* to read/write a
filename with a colon may lead to very surprising results-- 0 sized files
with names up to the colon... as you may actually be writing to an alternate
named data stream (like a resource fork on the mac).

Basically, the error is just cryptic. The problem is your filename isn't a
valid windows filename :)

--S
-------------- next part --------------
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From gtaylor at l11solutions.com  Mon Aug 24 11:04:34 2009
From: gtaylor at l11solutions.com (Greg Taylor)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:04:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Fedex + SOAP
Message-ID: <55f5539e-2cb7-4e51-b897-da42e673ff57@r42g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

Fedex has recently started the process to transition from their XML-
based Web Services to the new SOAP-based equivalent. I've been trying
unsuccessfully to get an example SOAP transaction working with their
new service, but am running into validation problems.

I was wondering if anyone has already started tinkering with a Fedex
+SOAP module before I potentially re-invent the wheel. If there's
nothing in the works yet, would anyone be interested in working with
me on such a module?

Thanks,
Greg


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Mon Aug 24 11:08:07 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:08:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 24 Aug, 14:08, Gilles Ganault  wrote:

> and problems
> linked to how to update users' PC remotely when I build a new version
> using eg. Py2exe.

Remote update is a problem regardless of language. It typically
involves the following steps:

1. Download the update from a server using a background thread.

2. When the program starts, look for downloaded updates. Install
updates, then launch the Python app.

The problem is that a program's DLLs etc. become write-protected when
the program runs. So you nees two programs that cooperate to install
updates. But regardless of language you will run into this problem -
it is not Python specific. With py2exe, you can solve this using two
executables. The first py2exe launch a script that installs updates,
then spawns the second py2exe executable. The second py2exe lauch a
script that installs updates in the first, then launch the Python app.
The Python app then run a background thread that downloads new
updates.


Sturla Molden


From ebonak at hotmail.com  Mon Aug 24 11:17:37 2009
From: ebonak at hotmail.com (Esmail)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 11:17:37 -0400
Subject: your favorite debugging tool?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Hello,

thank you all for your suggestions/comments.

While I do believe in a minimalist approach (part of the reason
I find Python so appealing), using print statements sometimes
only goes so far (for me).

I probably should look into using iPython in the context of
debugging (I already use this shell).

For now I ended up giving winpdb a whirl and it did help me find
the bug that had been elusive to my print statement approach :-)

Thanks again .. and if there are additional postings, I'll be
reading them too with great interest.


Esmail



From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Aug 24 11:18:40 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:18:40 +0200
Subject: problem to write a THREAD enabled python extension
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4a92af50$0$32675$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>

Andreas Otto wrote:
> Hi,
> 
>   the following scenario:
>    
>  1. using GIL
>  2. a pthread is created in a library and have to be "announced" to python
>  3. the thread is created in a "PyObject_CallObject" function call from
>       extension c code using a other extension c-code function called
>       from python code
> 
>  python CRASH with invalid thread-state object

You forgot to create a thread state for the new thread. See the
PyThreadState_New() function.

Stefan


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Mon Aug 24 11:22:39 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:22:39 +0200
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: <20090824141425.GB20434@dragontoe.org>
References: 
	<20090824135648.GA20434@dragontoe.org>
	<20090824141425.GB20434@dragontoe.org>
Message-ID: <200908241722.39942.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Monday 24 August 2009 16:14:25 Derek Martin wrote:

> In fact, now that I think of it...
>
> I just looked at some old school papers I had tucked away in a family
> album.  I'm quite sure that in grammar school, I was tought to use a
> date format of 8/9/79, without leading zeros.  I can't prove it, of
> course, but feel fairly sure that the prevalence of leading zeros in
> dates occured only in the mid to late 1980's as computers became more
> prevalent in our society (no doubt because thousands of cobol

I was one of those COBOL programmers, and the time was around the end of the 
sixties, running into the seventies.  And the reason for leading zeroes on 
dates was the punched card, and its handmaiden, the data entry form, with a 
nice little block for every character. 



> programmers writing business apps needed a way to convert dates as
> strings to numbers that was easy and fit in small memory).
>
> Assuming I'm right about that, then the use of a leading 0 to
> represent octal actually predates the prevalence of using 0 in dates
> by almost two decades. 

Not quite - at the time I started, punch cards and data entry forms were 
already well established practice, and at least on the English machines, (ICL 
1500/1900 series) octal was prevalent, but I don't know when the leading zero 
octal notation started, and where.  I only met it much later in life, and 
learned it through hard won irritation, because it is a stupid convention, 
when viewed dispassionately.

> And while using leading zeros in other 
> contexts is "familiar" to me, I would certainly not consider it
> "common" by any means.  Thus I think it's fair to say that when this
> syntax was selected, it was a rather good choice.

I think you give it credence for far more depth of design thinking than what 
actually happened in those days - some team working on a compiler made a 
decision  (based on gut feel or experience, or precedent, or whim ) and that 
was that - lo! - a standard is born! -- We have always done it this way, here 
at company  x.  And besides, we cannot ask our main guru to spend any of his 
precious time mucking around with trivia - the man may leave us for the 
opposition if we irritate him, and systems people do not grow on trees, you 
know.

- Hendrik



From jjalocha at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 11:25:15 2009
From: jjalocha at gmail.com (Jerzy Jalocha N)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 11:25:15 -0400
Subject: P3 weird sys.stdout.write()
In-Reply-To: <4A92A920.70703@ieee.org>
References: <9b72f9a90908240613i513597bbk83a30946ab0b04ae@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A92A920.70703@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <9b72f9a90908240825m5d04cdb9m74f28e9eac1ab02f@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 10:52 AM, Dave Angel wrote:
> The write() function changed in 3.0, but not in the way you're describing.
> ?It now (usually) has a return value, the count of the number of characters
> written.
[...]
> But because you're running from the interpreter, you're seeing the return
> value(9), which is suppressed if it's None, which it was in 2.x. ? This has
> nothing to do with how the language behaves in normal use.

This makes it much clearer!
You are right, output in a shell script is "normal", without the return value.
Thank you, Dave.

-Jerzy


From bbxx789_05ss at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 24 11:29:39 2009
From: bbxx789_05ss at yahoo.com (7stud)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:29:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: print() and unicode strings (python 3.1)
Message-ID: <4eda8137-7db9-4c39-a2c1-3477b071f7f6@x5g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

======python 2.6 ======
import sys

print sys.getdefaultencoding()

s = u"\u20ac"
print s.encode("utf-8")


$ python2.6 1test.py
ascii
?


=====python 3.1 =======
import sys

print(sys.getdefaultencoding())

s = "?"
print(s.encode("utf-8"))
print(s)


$ python3.1 1test.py
utf-8
b'\xe2\x82\xac'

Traceback (most recent call last):
File "1test.py", line 7, in 
print(s)
UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character '\u20ac' in
position 0: ordinal not in range(12


I don't understand why I'm getting an encode error in python 3.1.



From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 11:31:13 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:31:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References:  
	<0018e1a0$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<20090823031901.GX20434@dragontoe.org> 
	
	<87fxbifzb7.fsf@golux.woodcraft.me.uk> 
	
Message-ID: <0b380152-efb5-4cee-b75e-28ff59e095fd@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 24, 6:56?am, Derek Martin  wrote:
>?I think
> hard-coding dates is more uncommon than using octal. ;-) ?[It
> unquestionably is, for me personally.]

You just don't get it, do you?  Do you really think this is a contest
over what's more common and the winner gets to choose the syntax?  You
really think that's the issue?

It is not.  The issue is that C's arcane octal notation is MIND-
BOGGLINGLY RETARDED.

So, even if Unix file permissions were a hundred times more common
than padding integer constants with zero, it still wouldn't be a good
idea to have it in Python because the notation is retarded.

Even if 99.999% of other languages use the notation, it still wouldn't
be a good idea to have it in Python because the notation is retarded.

The vast majority of people reading this will understand intuitively
why the arcane octal notation is retarded.  I was going to explain it,
but I decided it's not worth a serious argument.


Carl Banks


From find.mig at paa.google  Mon Aug 24 11:32:23 2009
From: find.mig at paa.google (Esben von Buchwald)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:32:23 +0200
Subject: Protecting against callbacks queuing up?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4a91db65$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
	
Message-ID: <4a92b290$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>

Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:

> see if there is an "after" method somewhere.
> 
> What you have to do is to "break the link" between the callback
> and the processing.  Your code above is all in the callback "thread", despite 
> the fact that you call another function to do the processing.
> 
> So if you replace the data_callback() with an after call, it should work as 
> you expect.
> 
> HTH - Hendrik
> 

Thanks

I'm new to python, what is an after function and an after call? Couldn't 
find excact answer on google...? Do you have a link to some docs?


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Mon Aug 24 11:36:24 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 24 Aug 2009 15:36:24 GMT
Subject: Literal concatenation, strings vs. numbers (was: Numeric
	literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal  notation)
References: 
	
	
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	 <87ljlahbn9.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
	<7fe9mbF2l83bmU1@mid.individual.net>
	<871vn2gcai.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <02a2a388$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 12:45:25 +1000, Ben Finney wrote:

> greg  writes:
> 
>> J. Cliff Dyer wrote:
>>
>> > What happens if you use a literal like 0x10f 304?
>>
>> To me the obvious thing to do is concatenate them textually and then
>> treat the whole thing as a single numeric literal. Anything else
>> wouldn't be sane, IMO.

Agreed. It's the only sane way to deal with concatenating numeric 
literals. It makes it simple and easy to understand: remove the 
whitespace from inside the literal, and parse as normal.

123 4567 => 1234567  # legal
0xff 123 => 0xff123  # legal
123 0xff => 1230xff  # illegal

The first two examples would be legal, the last would raise a syntax 
error, for obvious reasons. This would also work for floats:

1.23 4e5 => 1.234e5  # legal
1.23 4.5 => 1.234.5  # illegal
1e23 4e5 => 1e234e5  # illegal



> Yet, as was pointed out, that behaviour would be inconsistent with the
> concatenation of string literals::
> 
>     >>> "abc" r'def' u"ghi" 'jkl'
>     u'abcdefghijkl'

Unicode/byte conversion is obviously a special case, and arguably should 
have been prohibited, although "practicality beats purity" suggests that 
a single unicode string in the sequence should make the lot unicode. 
(What else could it mean?)

In any case, numeric concatenation and string concatenation are very 
different beasts. With strings, you have to interpret each piece as 
either bytes or characters, you have to treat escapes specially, you have 
to deal with matching delimiters. For numeric concatenation, none of 
those complications is relevant: there is no equivalent to the byte/
character dichotomy, there are no escape sequences, there are no 
delimiters.

Numeric literals are much simpler than string literals, consequently the 
concatenation rule can be correspondingly simpler too. There's no need to 
complicate it by *adding* complexity: you can't have mixed bases in a 
single numeric literal without spaces, why would you expect to have mixed 
bases in one with spaces?




-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Mon Aug 24 11:40:24 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 24 Aug 2009 15:40:24 GMT
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
References: 
	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<4a918fe0$0$30226$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net>
	<02a1cc1d$0$30337$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4a9243d3$0$32677$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <02a2a478$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:40:03 +0200, Stefan Behnel wrote:

>> Or you could enter the 21 century and understand that "guys" has become
>> a generic term for people of any sex.
> 
> Is that true for everyone who understands and/or writes English? In that
> case, I'm fine with your above statement. Otherwise, I'd wonder who you
> meant with the term "cultural chauvinism". So far, I only learned that
> most North-American English native speakers use that term in the way you
> refer to. That doesn't even get you close to the majority of English
> speakers.

If you read the entire thread, you'd see that we've already discussed the 
issue of "guys" for mixed sex groups and females. In fact, as I'd already 
said, I'm one of those old fashioned guys who still gets surprised when 
women refer to themselves as guys, but I'm learning to keep up with the 
times. I'm Australian, not North American, and the British author Michael 
Quinion, one of the researchers for the Oxford Dictionary, also states 
that "guys" now refers to both men and women:

http://www.worldwidewords.org/weirdwords/ww-guy1.htm

When "guys" can refer to either sex in English, American, Canadian and 
Australian English, I think it should be pretty uncontroversial to treat 
it as standard now.



-- 
Steven


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 11:49:36 2009
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:49:36 -0700
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7a9c25c20908240849p283cb70o50f374a4f8c867b@mail.gmail.com>

>
>        I was wondering if some people in this ng use Python and some GUI
> toolkit (PyWin32, wxWidgets, QT, etc.) to build professional
> applications, and if yes, what it's like, the pros and cons, etc.


My company does. A few years ago we decided to re-write our entire aging
product line in Python using wxPython as the GUI layer (PyWin32 was out
because we wanted Mac compatibility, and at that time between QT's
commercial license and my own familiarity with wx meant we just used that by
default.)

It took some time to get solid; there's a learning curve involved in doing
things "the pythonic way", and wxPython is -- not really pythonic(and no
powerful GUI library is, though there are some simpler libraries out there
which are), so you're learning in two directions at once.

It's been a pretty interesting experience, and I'd consider it a complete
success, honestly. It took some time to get the full suite going from
"functional" to "mature", mostly because of certain complexities to our
system which have nothing to do with Python. But, Python and wxPython as the
foundation for the system has allowed some pretty remarkable flexibility in
getting something usable to the customer quickly, getting early feedback and
rapidly responding to their needs and growing the application as we did so.

It's been a very iterative process, but I don't know if you want to create a
long-term project or get something out that works Just Fine, Right Now. For
us we started out with a basic re-implementation of the legacy system which
just 'worked', and have over the last few years probably rewritten most of
the original code at least twice (a piece at a time)-- re-factoring and
redesigning both the insides and UI as new controls and technologies (and
our own knowledge!) improve over time. For us that's good, because we like
maintenance contracts :)

But we've had a continually evolving product line-- getting faster with
every new release, slicker, with new features and evolving continually.
Sure, every program /should/ do that -- but using Python+wxPython IMHO has
been invaluable to the process of evolving /efficiently/. It takes very
little effort to /maintain/ the system, very little effort going back to
some deep dark place in the codebase and figuring out what the heck was done
by someone else three years ago... and very little effort to pull the whole
thing apart and piece it back together with a new heart when it's discovered
the original didn't quite do things as well as it should.

I'm especially concerned about the lack of controls, the lack of
> updates (lots of controls in wxWidgets are 1.0 deadware),


I find this comment -- frankly bizarre.

There's a plethora if controls in wxWidgets, and it's not terribly hard once
you learn the system how to make your own. Check out Andrea Gavana's
excellent suite of custom widgets (which continually get migrated into the
core wxPython) and the AUI, and the sublime ObjectListView for Python.

Now, if you're talking about "lack of the latest Microsoft-specialized
controls", that's true. wxWidgets is cross-platform so doesn't readily adopt
the latest and newest way that Microsoft does things with each new iteration
of Office and Windows pumping out a new UI paradigm. But you can still
create very native and impressively functional looking apps.

With wxWidgets at least (I have no idea about QT), you also don't have a
series of data-aware controls that you may be used to, but it's *really* not
that hard to write that layer yourself.

You may also want to look into Dabo, which builds on top of wxPython and I
believe solves some of its limitations with regards to data-integration if
you do things in a way that are Dabo-esque. I'm only vaguely familiar with
it, though.

Depending on your needs, you can use various dialog builders to create
XRC/XML "descriptions" of your interface and load them up-- but personally I
hand-code all the controls and interfaces, and doing so once you learn the
system is really quite rapid. I can dummy up a very functional interface for
testing/dummying much faster in Python/wxPython then I can in Visual Studio.
It doesn't have as many bells and whistles, but I really can't imagine why
anyone would find themselves control-starved.


> and problems
> linked to how to update users' PC remotely when I build a new version
> using eg. Py2exe.
>

What problems? Yes, you have to learn py2exe, but once you have your program
packaged together, it's no different then any other program on windows.
Build a MSI, and have the IT guy push that MSI out via an active directory
group policy. Isn't that the standard way you install and update /any/ group
of users' software on a windows network? Regardless of in what language you
write it in?

I need controls for business apps like access to databases, good data
> grid, printing reports (with or without barcodes), etc.


Data access is easy and well supported to a wide-variety of databases,
depending on just how you want to do it. I've recently fallen in love with
SQLAlchemy, though previously I did mostly simple DB-API based access and
home-grown model objects representing data models.

The wxWidgets "data grid" is somewhat somewhat lacking at present in that it
doesn't really connect "to" the database-- but it is not significantly hard
to write a table implementation to serve as your 'backend' to connect to the
database, which the grid can then uses to define what it shows. Dabo's grid
implementation solves that, I believe, so may be good for you.

Reports, I have no idea-- in my company's domain the reporting needs are
very limited, and we've found it sufficient to write out a HTML file and
toss up IE to print out the table. But there is reportlab which is an
excellent library for PDF generation -- and making reports in particular, of
course. It has support for barcodes, I believe.

Dabo also has some links to a report generator they include -- never really
looked in beyond glancing and going 'Oh, neat.'

--S
P.S. I have no idea why I'm pumping Dabo so much in this though I've never
used it!
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From john.haxby at oracle.com  Mon Aug 24 11:50:11 2009
From: john.haxby at oracle.com (John Haxby)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:50:11 +0100
Subject: Bash-like brace expansion
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A92B6B3.9020509@oracle.com>

Peter Waller wrote:
> Okay, I got fed up with there not being any (obvious) good examples of
> how to do bash-like brace expansion in Python, so I wrote it myself.
> Here it is for all to enjoy!
>
> If anyone has any better solutions or any other examples of how to do
> this, I'd be glad to hear from them.
>    

That was a little while ago and while I found Peter's BraceExpand was a 
good start it wasn't quite what I wanted.  It's not quite the same as 
bash: for example, BraceExpand("{1,3..5}") gives "1 3 4 5" but bash 
gives "1 3..5" (use "{1,{3..5}}") and bash turns all of "{a..z}", 
"{z..a}, "{10..-10}" into sequences.

My version is a little shorter, mostly because it's heavily recursive so 
it may fail spectacularly on some pathological cases :-)

jch
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From code at pizzashack.org  Mon Aug 24 11:50:28 2009
From: code at pizzashack.org (Derek Martin)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:50:28 -0500
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: <200908241722.39942.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
References: 
	<20090824135648.GA20434@dragontoe.org>
	<20090824141425.GB20434@dragontoe.org>
	<200908241722.39942.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
Message-ID: <20090824155028.GC20434@dragontoe.org>

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 05:22:39PM +0200, Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:
> > Assuming I'm right about that, then the use of a leading 0 to
> > represent octal actually predates the prevalence of using 0 in dates
> > by almost two decades. 
> 
> Not quite - at the time I started, punch cards and data entry forms were 
> already well established practice, and at least on the English machines, (ICL 
> 1500/1900 series) octal was prevalent, but I don't know when the leading zero 
> octal notation started, and where.  

I said "prevalence."  The key is that the average person did not start
using leading zeros in dates until (I think) much, much later, and
that's what's relevant to this discussion.  If it were not commonplace
for people to use decimal numbers with leading zeros, this whole
thread would be a moot point, the python devs likely never would have
considered changing the syntax, and we would not be having this
discussion.  Most people did not work as data entry clerks on ICL
computers... :)

Those participating in this thread have pretty much all seem to agree
that the only places where decimal numbers with leading zeros really
are common are either in rather specialized applications, such as
computer-oriented data or serial numbers (which typically behave more
like strings, from a computer science perspective), or the rather
common one of dates.  The latter case is perhaps what's significant,
if any of those cases are.  I tend to think that within the computer
science arena, the history and prevalence of the leading 0 indicating
octal far outweighs all of those cases combined.

> I think you give it credence for far more depth of design thinking than what 
> actually happened in those days - some team working on a compiler made a 
> decision  (based on gut feel or experience, or precedent, or whim ) and that 
> was that - lo! - a standard is born! 

Rather, I think you give the folks at Bell Labs way too little credit.
They designed a programming language and an operating system that,
while certainly not exactly the same as their original incarnations,
even then contained a lot of features and design principles that
remain state-of-the-art (though perhaps their specific implementation
details have since been improved) and in many ways superior to a lot
of what has come since (e.g. virtually anything that came out of
Microsoft).  [That's just my opinion, of course... but shared by many.
:)]  I don't think that happened by mere accident.  That's not to say
they were perfect, but those guys had their proverbial $#!t together.

-- 
Derek D. Martin
http://www.pizzashack.org/
GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D

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From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Aug 24 11:56:43 2009
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?windows-1252?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:56:43 +0200
Subject: print() and unicode strings (python 3.1)
In-Reply-To: <4eda8137-7db9-4c39-a2c1-3477b071f7f6@x5g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
References: <4eda8137-7db9-4c39-a2c1-3477b071f7f6@x5g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a92b83b$0$27209$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

> I don't understand why I'm getting an encode error in python 3.1.

The default encoding is not relevant here at all. Look at
sys.stdout.encoding.

Regards,
Martin


From chris at simplistix.co.uk  Mon Aug 24 12:08:15 2009
From: chris at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:08:15 +0100
Subject: Python 2.6 still not giving memory back to the OS...
In-Reply-To: <4A88406C.3060609@v.loewis.de>
References: 	<38581c40-b7ed-4dbf-a3af-33e1761ba7b0@r7g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>	<762603ba-0a4c-4504-94d9-34a8b1e3f9c3@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	<4A88406C.3060609@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <4A92BAEF.2010303@simplistix.co.uk>

Martin v. L?wis wrote:
> Today, there are two cases when malloc returns memory on a typical
> Unix system (in particular, in Linux malloc):
> a) if the malloc block block is small (below page size), it is allocated
>    from the brk heap, where it can only be returned if the last page of
>    that heap is completely free, and
> b) if the block is large (multiple pages), it gets returned to the
>    system right away.
> 
> Case b) can only happen if the C malloc uses mmap to allocate large
> blocks. 

I believe (and John will correct me if I'm wrong) that xlrd uses mmap, 
so why am I not seeing the memory being returned?

Chris

-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting
            - http://www.simplistix.co.uk


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Aug 24 12:12:11 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:12:11 +0200
Subject: Need cleanup advice for multiline string
In-Reply-To: <02a2a478$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 	<5cd0cdaa-db32-45df-ac65-3bd434c1f7e9@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>	<461cc6f1-fc23-4bc7-a719-6f29babf8bcd@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>		<4a918fe0$0$30226$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net>	<02a1cc1d$0$30337$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<4a9243d3$0$32677$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
	<02a2a478$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4a92bbdb$0$32676$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:40:03 +0200, Stefan Behnel wrote:
> 
>>> Or you could enter the 21 century and understand that "guys" has become
>>> a generic term for people of any sex.
>> Is that true for everyone who understands and/or writes English? In that
>> case, I'm fine with your above statement. Otherwise, I'd wonder who you
>> meant with the term "cultural chauvinism". So far, I only learned that
>> most North-American English native speakers use that term in the way you
>> refer to. That doesn't even get you close to the majority of English
>> speakers.
> 
> If you read the entire thread, you'd see that we've already discussed the 
> issue of "guys" for mixed sex groups and females. In fact, as I'd already 
> said, I'm one of those old fashioned guys who still gets surprised when 
> women refer to themselves as guys, but I'm learning to keep up with the 
> times. I'm Australian, not North American, and the British author Michael 
> Quinion, one of the researchers for the Oxford Dictionary, also states 
> that "guys" now refers to both men and women:
> 
> http://www.worldwidewords.org/weirdwords/ww-guy1.htm
> 
> When "guys" can refer to either sex in English, American, Canadian and 
> Australian English, I think it should be pretty uncontroversial to treat 
> it as standard now.

Ok, then I guess I just misread "after being adopted in the USA it started
to change meaning" in one of the cited articles as "it changed meaning in
the USA". I didn't expect Australians (and Oxford dictionary writers, and
potentially others) to be /that/ influenced by shifts in US juvenile word
semantics...

I for one wouldn't start calling my leg "foot", even though the Austrians
kept insisting for ages now.

Stefan


From chris at simplistix.co.uk  Mon Aug 24 12:13:45 2009
From: chris at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:13:45 +0100
Subject: Barcodes
In-Reply-To: <9c8c445f0908191655i42ec8f86p8f699f2b35cbf6f7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9c8c445f0908171318x2d9d862bi35ccb398376aceca@mail.gmail.com>	
	<4A89C3BB.2030605@tim.thechases.com>	<9c8c445f0908190619v5f50de1bvbbfbd8c0557f9783@mail.gmail.com>
	<9c8c445f0908191655i42ec8f86p8f699f2b35cbf6f7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A92BC39.3010007@simplistix.co.uk>

Ronn Ross wrote:
> 
> I found this library, but no 
> documentation(https://cybernetics.hudora.biz/projects/wiki/huBarcode). 
> Has anyone used this or know of a similar library with better 
> documentation?

Yup, reportlab has really good barcode generation stuff.
I use it to generate labels with barcodes on for asset tracking :-)

http://the-gay-bar.com/index.php?/archives/221-Howto-generate-barcodes-in-Python-with-reportlab/

Chris

-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting
            - http://www.simplistix.co.uk


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Mon Aug 24 12:18:20 2009
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:18:20 -0700
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

Piet van Oostrum wrote:
>>>>>> Scott David Daniels  (SDD) wrote:
> 
>> SDD> James Harris wrote:...
>>>> Another option:
>>>>
>>>> 0.(2:1011), 0.(8:7621), 0.(16:c26b)
>>>>
>>>> where the three characters "0.(" begin the sequence.
>>>>
>>>> Comments? Improvements?
> 
>> SDD> I did a little interpreter where non-base 10 numbers
>> SDD> (up to base 36) were:
> 
>> SDD>     .7.100   == 64  (octal)
>> SDD>     .9.100   == 100 (decimal)
>> SDD>     .F.100   == 256 (hexadecimal)
>> SDD>     .1.100   == 4   (binary)
>> SDD>     .3.100   == 9   (trinary)
>> SDD>     .Z.100   == 46656 (base 36)
> 
> I wonder how you wrote that interpreter, given that some answers are wrong.
Obviously I started with a different set of examples and edited after 
starting to make a table that could be interpretted in each base.  After
doing that, I forgot to double check, and lo and behold .F.1000 = 46656,
while .F.100 = 1296.  Since it has been decades since I've had access
to that interpreter, this is all from memory.

--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From nmm1 at cam.ac.uk  Mon Aug 24 12:20:23 2009
From: nmm1 at cam.ac.uk (nmm1 at cam.ac.uk)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:20:23 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
	<5134d9f1-0e23-4e05-a817-bf0cc9e85d3e@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
sturlamolden   wrote:
>
>You also made this claim regarding Fortran's C interop with strings:
>
>"No, I mean things like 'Kilroy was here'.  Currently, Fortran's C
>interoperability supports only strings of length 1, and you have
>to kludge them up as arrays.  That doesn't work very well, especially
>for things like function results."
>
>This obviosuly proves you wrong:

Er, no, it doesn't.  I suggest that you read what I said more
carefully - and the Fortran standard.  As I said, you can kludge
them up, and that is precisely one such kludge - but, as I also
said, it doesn't work very well.

However, I shall take your answer as a "yes, I want to do that".



Regards,
Nick Maclaren.


From code at pizzashack.org  Mon Aug 24 12:21:46 2009
From: code at pizzashack.org (Derek Martin)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 11:21:46 -0500
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: <0b380152-efb5-4cee-b75e-28ff59e095fd@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<0018e1a0$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<20090823031901.GX20434@dragontoe.org>
	
	<87fxbifzb7.fsf@golux.woodcraft.me.uk>
	
	<0b380152-efb5-4cee-b75e-28ff59e095fd@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20090824162146.GD20434@dragontoe.org>

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 08:31:13AM -0700, Carl Banks wrote:
> On Aug 24, 6:56?am, Derek Martin  wrote:
> >?I think hard-coding dates is more uncommon than using octal. ;-)
> >?[It unquestionably is, for me personally.]
> 
> You just don't get it, do you?  

I think I get it just fine, thanks.

> Do you really think this is a contest over what's more common and
> the winner gets to choose the syntax?  You really think that's the
> issue?

No, I think it's about egos.  Someone got the idea that 0o1 was better
than 01, and had to be Right.  And had the power to make it happen, or
at least (sadly) convince the people with the power.

I'm simply presenting an argument that the need for the change is not so
clear.  You say the old syntax is retarded.  I say the new syntax, and
the very act of making the change itself is retarded.  I think my
argument is very solid and persuasive; but of course some minds are
invulnerable to persuasion.  I might not even disagree that the old
syntax could be improved upon, except that it already is what it is,
and the new syntax is NOT better; I personally believe it's not only
not better, but that it's actually worse.  Others have agreed.

> It is not.  The issue is that C's arcane octal notation is MIND-
> BOGGLINGLY RETARDED.

As I said, I searched the web on this topic before I bothered to post.
I did a bit of research.  One of the things that my search turned up:
A lot of smart people disagree with you.  If the use of the leading
zero boggles your mind, then perhaps your mind is too easily boggled,
and perhaps you should seek a different way to occupy your time.

This is yet another case where some Pythonista has gotten it in his
head that "There is One Truth, and the Old Way be Damned, my way is
The Way, and Thus Shall It Be Evermore."  And worse yet, managed to
convince others.  Well, there's no such thing as One Truth, and there
are different perspectives that are just as valid as yours.  I'm
expressing one now.  This change sucks.  I already know that my rant
won't change the syntax.  The only reason I bothered to post is
because I do actually quite like Python -- something I can say of only
one other programming language -- and I think the powers that be are
(in some cases) making it worse, not better.  I hoped to open a few
minds with a different perspective, but of course I should have known
better.

0o1 is not better than 01. On my terminal it's hard to see the
difference between 0 and o.  YMMV.  But since YMMV, and since the old
syntax is prevalent both within and without the Python community,
making the change is, was, and always will be a bad idea.

-- 
Derek D. Martin
http://www.pizzashack.org/
GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D

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From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Mon Aug 24 12:47:43 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 24 Aug 2009 16:47:43 GMT
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: 
	<0018e1a0$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<20090823031901.GX20434@dragontoe.org>
	
	<87fxbifzb7.fsf@golux.woodcraft.me.uk>
	<20090824135648.GA20434@dragontoe.org>
	
Message-ID: <02a2b43f$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:14:25 -0500, Derek Martin wrote:

> Assuming I'm right about that, then the use of a leading 0 to represent
> octal actually predates the prevalence of using 0 in dates by almost two
> decades.  And while using leading zeros in other contexts is "familiar"
> to me, I would certainly not consider it "common" by any means.  Thus I
> think it's fair to say that when this syntax was selected, it was a
> rather good choice.

Except of course to anyone familiar with mathematics in the last, oh, 
five hundred years or so. Mathematics has used a positional system for 
numbers for centuries now: leading zeroes have been insignificant, just 
like trailing zeroes after the decimal point:

9 = 09 = 009 = 9.0 = 9.00 = 0009.000 etc.



-- 
Steven


From ronn.ross at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 12:50:37 2009
From: ronn.ross at gmail.com (Ronn Ross)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 12:50:37 -0400
Subject: Reading binary files
In-Reply-To: <9c8c445f0908240818k1ae301acr49c65ccb21435cd7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9c8c445f0908240735k6599045dn5ecbd63fa76bfe6e@mail.gmail.com>
	<1251125039.23757.0.camel@brotherus.corp.redhat.com>
	<9c8c445f0908240818k1ae301acr49c65ccb21435cd7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9c8c445f0908240950h24e5bfccoc9ae809c1048be5d@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Ronn Ross  wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Albert Hopkins wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 2009-08-24 at 10:35 -0400, Ronn Ross wrote:
>> > I need to read a binary file. When I open it up in a text editor it is
>> > just junk. Does Python have a class to help with this?
>>
>> Yes, the "file" class.
>>
>> >>> myfile = open('/path/to/binary/file', 'rb')
>>
>> -a
>>
> This works for a simple binary file, but the actual file I'm trying to read
> is give throwing an error that the file cannot be found. Here is the name of
> the my file:
> 2009.08.02_06.52.00_WA-1_0001_00_0662_0.jstars
>
> Should python have trouble reading this file name or extension?
>
I'm having trouble with the filename:
2009.08.02_06.52.00_WA-1_0001_00_0662_0.jstars

It throws an error with that file name, When I change it to something like
sample.txt it runs, but the data is still garbled. Is there any reason why I
can't use the above file name? If I'm using 'rb' to read the binary file why
is it still garbled?
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From bbxx789_05ss at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 24 12:54:03 2009
From: bbxx789_05ss at yahoo.com (7stud)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:54:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: print() and unicode strings (python 3.1)
References: <4eda8137-7db9-4c39-a2c1-3477b071f7f6@x5g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<4a92b83b$0$27209$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 24, 9:56?am, "Martin v. L?wis"  wrote:
> > I don't understand why I'm getting an encode error in python 3.1.
>
> The default encoding is not relevant here at all. Look at
> sys.stdout.encoding.
>
> Regards,
> Martin

Hi,

Thanks for the response.  I get US-ASCII for both 2.6 and 3.1:

===python 3.1======
import sys

print(sys.stdout.encoding)


$ python3.1 1test.py
US-ASCII

I can't figure out a way to programatically set the encoding for
sys.stdout.  So where does that leave me? python 3.1 won't let me
explicitly encode my unicode string, and python 3.1 implicitly does
the encoding with the wrong codec.  And why would any programmer rely
on python 3.1's implicit encoding of unicode strings anyway?
Presumably, different systems will have different encodings for
sys.stdout, some encodings might cause encode errors.



From rurpy at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 24 12:56:47 2009
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:56:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
References: 
Message-ID: <8e65beea-eb8e-45cf-b286-36055be5eb2e@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On 08/24/2009 06:08 AM, Gilles Ganault wrote:
> 	I was wondering if some people in this ng use Python and some GUI
> toolkit (PyWin32, wxWidgets, QT, etc.) to build professional
> applications, and if yes, what it's like, the pros and cons, etc.
>
> I'm especially concerned about the lack of controls, the lack of
> updates (lots of controls in wxWidgets are 1.0 deadware), and problems
> linked to how to update users' PC remotely when I build a new version
> using eg. Py2exe.
>
> I need controls for business apps like access to databases, good data
> grid, printing reports (with or without barcodes), etc.

I sure you'll get plenty of GUI-x is really great and you'll
is just as good as anything commercial out there, so I thought
a minority opinion, even if unpopular, might be useful.

Won't comment on the control choices or packaging issues, but I
am at the moment doing a little database-connected app that
presents editable data in a spreadsheet like (grid) form using
wxPython.

It has been a very painful process.  I have not found any simple
pre-written code to connect a wxPython grid to a database so
that the result is something like a Microsoft Access datasheet.[*1]
It is probably taking me 10 times as long to develop this app
in WxPython/Postgresql as it did to develop something similar
in MS Access/VBA/SQL Server.

I haven't needed for printing yet, but I've read wxpython maillist
posts about the difficultly of getting printing to work so you may
want to check that out as well before commiting to wxpython.

A meta-issue that applies (I think) to both wxPython and PyQt
is that both projects seem to be highly dependent on a single
person leading one to worry about the "bus" scenario.

I am not a fan of Microsoft (in fact I despise their commercial
behavior and many aspects of thier products) but I am reporting
the reality as I've experienced it.

[*1] There are ORMs like Sqlalchemy but they introduce a additional
problems like inefficient database operations, dependency on a
large external package, etc.  It is hard to tell for sure since
the Sqlalchemy docs are lousy, which of course means even more
development time.


From code at pizzashack.org  Mon Aug 24 13:02:39 2009
From: code at pizzashack.org (Derek Martin)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 12:02:39 -0500
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: <02a2b43f$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 
	<0018e1a0$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<20090823031901.GX20434@dragontoe.org>
	
	<87fxbifzb7.fsf@golux.woodcraft.me.uk>
	<20090824135648.GA20434@dragontoe.org>
	
	<02a2b43f$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <20090824170239.GE20434@dragontoe.org>

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 04:47:43PM +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Except of course to anyone familiar with mathematics in the last, oh, 
> five hundred years or so. Mathematics has used a positional system for 
> numbers for centuries now: leading zeroes have been insignificant, just 
> like trailing zeroes after the decimal point:
> 
> 9 = 09 = 009 = 9.0 = 9.00 = 0009.000 etc.

Dude, seriously.  No one ever *uses* leading zeros in the context of
mathematics except in 2nd grade math class.

-- 
Derek D. Martin
http://www.pizzashack.org/
GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D

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From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Mon Aug 24 13:03:28 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 24 Aug 2009 17:03:28 GMT
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: 
	<0018e1a0$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<20090823031901.GX20434@dragontoe.org>
	
	<87fxbifzb7.fsf@golux.woodcraft.me.uk>
	
	<0b380152-efb5-4cee-b75e-28ff59e095fd@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <02a2b7f1$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 11:21:46 -0500, Derek Martin wrote:

> since the old
> syntax is prevalent both within and without the Python community, making
> the change is, was, and always will be a bad idea.

Octal syntax isn't prevalent *at all*, except in a small number of niche 
areas.

You've said that this change is a hardship for you, because on your 
terminal 0 and o are hard to distinguish. Personally, I'd say that's a 
good sign that your terminal is crappy and you should use a better one, 
but putting that aside, let's accept that. To you, for whatever reason, 
0o looks just like 00.

Okay then. Under the current 2.x syntax, 0012 would be interpreted as 
octal. Under the new 3.x syntax, 0o12 which looks just like 0012 also 
would be interpreted as octal. You have argued that it might not be any 
harder to type the extra 'o' to get an octal literal, but that it will 
hurt readability. I quote:

"Writing 0o12 presents no hardship; but I assert, with at least some
support from others here, that *reading* it does."

But according to you, reading 0o12 is just like reading 0012. 0o12 under 
the new syntax gives decimal ten, and it looks just like 0012 in the old 
syntax, which also gives ten. So there's no difference in reading, and 
you've already accepted that the extra effort in writing it "presents no 
hardship".

A whole lot of noise over a change which is more or less invisible.



-- 
Steven


From harald.luessen at gmx.de  Mon Aug 24 13:18:16 2009
From: harald.luessen at gmx.de (Harald Luessen)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:18:16 +0200
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: 
	<20090824135648.GA20434@dragontoe.org>
	<20090824141425.GB20434@dragontoe.org>
	<200908241722.39942.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
	
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 Derek Martin wrote:
>Those participating in this thread have pretty much all seem to agree
>that the only places where decimal numbers with leading zeros really
>are common are either in rather specialized applications, such as
>computer-oriented data or serial numbers (which typically behave more
>like strings, from a computer science perspective), or the rather
>common one of dates.  The latter case is perhaps what's significant,
>if any of those cases are.

I don't like the 'leading 0 is octal'-syntax. I typically think of
numbers as decimal and bytes as hexadecimal.
I would even write something like this:

# iterate over bits 3 to 5
for i in range(0x00, 0x40, 0x08):
    ...
    print "0x%02x\n" % i

0x00
0x08
0x10
0x18
0x20
0x28
0x30
0x38

For me it is easier to see where the bits are in the hex notation.

And it is very common to use numbers with leading zeroes
that are hexadecimal. Like this:

# print address and data
for i in range(0x10000):
    print "%04x: %d\n" % i, data[i]

0000: ...
0001: ...
...
000f: ...
0010: ...
...

When you are looking for examples of numbers where leading zeroes
do not mean octal then consider decimal AND hexadecimal.

>I tend to think that within the computer
>science arena, the history and prevalence of the leading 0 indicating
>octal far outweighs all of those cases combined.

I disagree.

Harald



From robert.kern at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 13:19:27 2009
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 12:19:27 -0500
Subject: Is Python what I need?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <224ed882-b78e-4b75-afa8-35c907096469@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>		
	
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-24 08:32 AM, Peter Otten wrote:
> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>
>>> > From the distance it looks like these children need a good teacher
>>>> rather than a bad (or just starting) programmer.
>
>> Wow, that is rude. Let's keep this list friendly, won't we ?
>
> I may have been too blunt, and if my message has come across as an insult I
> apologize for that. Let me try again:
>
> If you are trying to teach children that are unwilling to use pen and paper
> putting them in front of a computer doesn't help you and them one bit. As a
> starting programmer you'll have to spend a lot of time in front of your
> computer that may be better spent with your students.

I suspect everyone is reading too much into the word "aversion". There may be 
physical or mental handicaps involved, not the personal preference of the 
students. In such a case, the OP's word choice is not ideal, but the readers 
here should give a little more thought before assuming the most ludicrous 
interpretation.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Mon Aug 24 13:23:55 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:23:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
	<5134d9f1-0e23-4e05-a817-bf0cc9e85d3e@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
Message-ID: <760c8bce-c634-4af1-a829-efa8c2d5ed29@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>

On 24 Aug, 18:20, n... at cam.ac.uk wrote:
>This obviosuly proves you wrong:
>
> Er, no, it doesn't. ?I suggest that you read what I said more
> carefully - and the Fortran standard. ?As I said, you can kludge
> them up, and that is precisely one such kludge -

You said we have to kludge them up as arrays. I did not. I kludged up
the C string as a pointer to a Fortran string, and called strlen to
get the length of the C string. You also said we can only interop with
length-1 character strings. My kludge was valid Fortran and works with
strings of any length up to some sane limit that you can specify.

You cannot expect a C pointer to carry information about the length of
the string. C strings are nul terminated, which is precisely why we
have strlen. When C has to use strlen to get the length of a C string,
so does Fortran. You cannot use the Fortran standard to change the
behaviour of C.


> but, as I also
> said, it doesn't work very well.

Only if you have an incredibly stupid compiler.


Sturla


From dirkmoors at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 13:30:09 2009
From: dirkmoors at gmail.com (gravityzoo-dmo)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:30:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python memory management <-> virtualized server environments
Message-ID: 

Hello everyone,

I was wondering if anyone here has had any experience in running
Python in a virtualized server environment?
The reason I'm asking is the recent thing I noticed when running my
server application (written in Python + Twisted);
The memory of the server application seems to only grow, and not give
back memory space to the OS. I realize that this won't be a problem on
a single physical server, but I'm curious of the effect this behaviour
has on a virtualized environment.
Could anyone provide me with a little more insight please?
Thanks in advance!

Dirk


From jkpeck at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 13:30:23 2009
From: jkpeck at gmail.com (JKPeck)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:30:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: csv module and None values
Message-ID: 

I'm trying to get the csv module (Python 2.6) to write data records
like Excel.  The excel dialect isn't doing it.  The problem is in
writing None values.  I want them to result in just sequential commas
- ,, but csv treats None specially, as the doc says,

"To make it as easy as possible to interface with modules which
implement the DB API, the value None is written as the empty string."

I need strings to be quoted but not None values.  Is there any way to
get around this special None treatment?

TIA,
Jon Peck


From code at pizzashack.org  Mon Aug 24 13:40:24 2009
From: code at pizzashack.org (Derek Martin)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 12:40:24 -0500
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: <02a2b7f1$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 
	<0018e1a0$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<20090823031901.GX20434@dragontoe.org>
	
	<87fxbifzb7.fsf@golux.woodcraft.me.uk>
	
	<0b380152-efb5-4cee-b75e-28ff59e095fd@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<02a2b7f1$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <20090824174024.GF20434@dragontoe.org>

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 05:03:28PM +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 11:21:46 -0500, Derek Martin wrote:
> > since the old syntax is prevalent both within and without the
> > Python community, making the change is, was, and always will be a
> > bad idea.
>
> Octal syntax isn't prevalent *at all*, except in a small number of
> niche areas.

Steven, don't be obtuse.  Where octal is used in programming, the
leading zero is prevalent.  

> You've said that this change is a hardship for you, because on your 
> terminal 0 and o are hard to distinguish. Personally, I'd say that's a 
> good sign that your terminal is crappy and you should use a better one, 

The terminal I use is just fine.  Stringing together similar
characters always has the possibility of confusing the reader.  The
human mind tends to see what it expects, and fills in the gaps when it
does not.  It wouldn't matter much if I changed my terminal font,
unless I made the font big enough to be not especially useful, except
for the rather exceptional case of detecting 0o1 and similar patterns
in python code.  The suggestion is asinine, and you know it.

> but putting that aside, let's accept that. To you, for whatever reason, 
> 0o looks just like 00.

It doesn't look "just like" 00, but similar enough that you have to
pay close attention.

> Okay then. Under the current 2.x syntax, 0012 would be interpreted as 
> octal. Under the new 3.x syntax, 0o12 which looks just like 0012 also 
> would be interpreted as octal. You have argued that it might not be any 
> harder to type the extra 'o' to get an octal literal, but that it will 
> hurt readability. I quote:
> 
> "Writing 0o12 presents no hardship; but I assert, with at least some
> support from others here, that *reading* it does."
 
Let me clarify my statement.  Writing 0o12 is easy -- there is no
hardship to type the characters 0o12 (well, actually it feels a bit
cumbersome, to be honest).  Remembering to do so, however, when
virtually everwhere else one uses octal writes it 012, is not easy.
Then I stand corrected:  There is indeed hardship.

> But according to you, reading 0o12 is just like reading 0012. 0o12 under 
> the new syntax gives decimal ten, and it looks just like 0012 in the old 
> syntax, which also gives ten. So there's no difference in reading, 

But there *IS* a difference in reading, because 0o12 is not the same
as 0012, and which one you use *matters*.  In particular, it will matter 
with the adoption of Python 3.x, where the latter will be an error.
But it matters even in 2.6 because right now, you can write it either
way, and that is (I think) even more confusing...  There is also still
discussion (mentioned in the relevant PEP) about making 0012 *valid
decimal*.  That should never, ever, ever happen.

Why is it so hard for you to accept that intelligent people can
disagree with you, and that what's right for you might be bad for
others?

-- 
Derek D. Martin
http://www.pizzashack.org/
GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D

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From manu3d at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 13:43:24 2009
From: manu3d at gmail.com (Emanuele D'Arrigo)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:43:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: List iterator thread safety
Message-ID: 

Let's say I have a list accessed by two threads, one removing list
items via "del myList[index]" statement the other iterating through
the list and printing out the items via "for item in myList:"
statement. Am I right to say this -won't- generate exceptions because
the list iterator is not concerned with the list changing in size
under its nose? Or are there pitfalls I should be aware of?

Manu


From nospam at see.signature  Mon Aug 24 14:04:56 2009
From: nospam at see.signature (Richard Maine)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 11:04:56 -0700
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
	
	
	
	<1j4ww90.pvvxweehycu0N%nospam@see.signature>
	<5134d9f1-0e23-4e05-a817-bf0cc9e85d3e@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
	<760c8bce-c634-4af1-a829-efa8c2d5ed29@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1j4y84p.v5docbtueccmN%nospam@see.signature>

sturlamolden  wrote:

> You also said we can only interop with
> length-1 character strings. My kludge was valid Fortran and works with
> strings of any length up to some sane limit that you can specify.

There might be a confusion here (and I'm not even sure on whose part) on
a picky but important detail of wording. I have seen multiple people
confused by this one before. In fact, some potential confusion was
forseen, which is why there are notes specifically about it in the
Fortran standard (see below). Those notes do tend to get overlooked
though.

Only character strings of length 1 are interoperable, as the term
"interoperable" is defined in the Fortran standard. However, that does
not mean that only character strings of length 1 will work with C. The
distinction might be picky, but it is important.

See Note 15.19 (which in turn cites an example in Note 15.23) of f2003.
You can pass a Fortran string of length n as an actual argument
corrseponding to a dummy argument that is an array of n character*1
elements. This isn't considered a question of "interoperability", as it
is a feature purely within Fortran, but it does impact on what kinds of
things work.

One might plausibly regard this as a kludge, but it is a kludge that is
part of the Fortran standard and is guaranteed to work with all Fortran
compilers. I almost said all f2003-compliant compilers (admittedly a
limited set), but then I recalled that the feature actually dates back
to f77 when character type was introduced; f2003 just extends it to the
C character kind for the obscure case where the C character kind might
be different from the default character kind (I don't know of any
compilers where this is so, but the standard allows for it).

-- 
Richard Maine                    | Good judgment comes from experience;
email: last name at domain . net | experience comes from bad judgment.
domain: summertriangle           |  -- Mark Twain


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Mon Aug 24 14:19:28 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 20:19:28 +0200
Subject: print() and unicode strings (python 3.1)
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4eda8137-7db9-4c39-a2c1-3477b071f7f6@x5g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<4a92b83b$0$27209$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	
Message-ID: <4a92d9b0$0$32667$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>

7stud wrote:
> python 3.1 won't let me
> explicitly encode my unicode string

Sure it does. But encoding a non-ASCII string to ASCII will necessarily fail.


> and python 3.1 implicitly does
> the encoding with the wrong codec.

That's not a Python problem, though. Your terminal is configured for
US-ASCII, so you can't output anything but US-ASCII characters.

Change your terminal setup to e.g. UTF-8 and see how things start working.

Stefan


From davea at ieee.org  Mon Aug 24 14:35:21 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:35:21 -0400
Subject: Reading binary files
In-Reply-To: <9c8c445f0908240950h24e5bfccoc9ae809c1048be5d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9c8c445f0908240735k6599045dn5ecbd63fa76bfe6e@mail.gmail.com>	<1251125039.23757.0.camel@brotherus.corp.redhat.com>	<9c8c445f0908240818k1ae301acr49c65ccb21435cd7@mail.gmail.com>
	<9c8c445f0908240950h24e5bfccoc9ae809c1048be5d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A92DD69.7090007@ieee.org>

Ronn Ross wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Ronn Ross  wrote:
>
>   
>> On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Albert Hopkins wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> On Mon, 2009-08-24 at 10:35 -0400, Ronn Ross wrote:
>>>       
>>>> I need to read a binary file. When I open it up in a text editor it is
>>>> just junk. Does Python have a class to help with this?
>>>>         
>>> Yes, the "file" class.
>>>
>>>       
>>>>>> myfile = open('/path/to/binary/file', 'rb')
>>>>>>             
>>> -a
>>>
>>>       
>> This works for a simple binary file, but the actual file I'm trying to read
>> is give throwing an error that the file cannot be found. Here is the name of
>> the my file:
>> 2009.08.02_06.52.00_WA-1_0001_00_0662_0.jstars
>>
>> Should python have trouble reading this file name or extension?
>>
>>     
> I'm having trouble with the filename:
> 2009.08.02_06.52.00_WA-1_0001_00_0662_0.jstars
>
> It throws an error with that file name, When I change it to something like
> sample.txt it runs, but the data is still garbled. Is there any reason why I
> can't use the above file name? If I'm using 'rb' to read the binary file why
> is it still garbled?
>
>
>   
You're describing two separate problems here.  One is an error in the 
open statement, and the other is "something is garbled."


If you hand a relative path name to the open() function, it'll have to 
get the absolute path from somewhere else, presumably the current 
directory.  Do you know for sure what the current directory is, and is 
that file located there?  Try printing  os.path.abspath(os.curdir).   Or 
pass a complete (absolute) path to open().

As for garbled...   Just what do you expect?  A binary file is a 
completely arbitrary sequence of bytes.  So if you're trying to print 
it, you may see "garbled."  Just what is the file's purpose anyway?  You 
can't do much with it without knowing something about it.

DaveA






From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Mon Aug 24 14:35:45 2009
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:35:45 +0100
Subject: Python memory management <-> virtualized server environments
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

gravityzoo-dmo wrote:
> Hello everyone,
> 
> I was wondering if anyone here has had any experience in running
> Python in a virtualized server environment?
> The reason I'm asking is the recent thing I noticed when running my
> server application (written in Python + Twisted);
> The memory of the server application seems to only grow, and not give
> back memory space to the OS. I realize that this won't be a problem on
> a single physical server, but I'm curious of the effect this behaviour
> has on a virtualized environment.
> Could anyone provide me with a little more insight please?
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> Dirk

Might help if you say which version of Python you are running, although 
I'm not a memory expert I do know there have been some changes between 
the versions.

-- 
MPH
http://blog.dcuktec.com
'If consumed, best digested with added seasoning to own preference.'


From bbxx789_05ss at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 24 14:45:17 2009
From: bbxx789_05ss at yahoo.com (7stud)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 11:45:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: print() and unicode strings (python 3.1)
References: <4eda8137-7db9-4c39-a2c1-3477b071f7f6@x5g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<4a92b83b$0$27209$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	
	<4a92d9b0$0$32667$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <00daf8f6-ee6a-47ab-8d92-1676a473d7cc@y4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 24, 12:19?pm, Stefan Behnel  wrote:
> 7stud wrote:
> > python 3.1 won't let me
> > explicitly encode my unicode string
>
> Sure it does. But encoding a non-ASCII string to ASCII will necessarily fail.
>

As you should be able to see in the python 3.1 example I posted, I did
not encode the string using the ascii codec.  I encoded it with the
utf-8 codec, and unfortunately in python 3.1 that creates a "bytes
string", and print()'ing a bytes string does not produce human
readable text.


> > and python 3.1 implicitly does
> > the encoding with the wrong codec.
>
> That's not a Python problem, though. Your terminal is configured for
> US-ASCII, so you can't output anything but US-ASCII characters.
>

My terminal is configured for utf-8, and from the output of the python
2.6 example I posted, it should be apparent that my terminal is
capable of rendering the euro character.





From gert.cuykens at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 14:50:55 2009
From: gert.cuykens at gmail.com (gert)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 11:50:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How does the file.seek() work ?
Message-ID: <2feaaf6c-d723-4843-a9e5-271d00187180@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

I want the file pointer set to 100 and overwrite everything from there

curl -C 100 -T upload2.wsgi http://192.168.2.17/appwsgi/wsgi/upload2.wsgi
-v

w+ overwrites my file completely
r+ overwrites nothing
a+ only makes my file bigger

import os

def application(environ, response):
    query=os.path.join(os.path.dirname(__file__),'teeeeeeeeeemp')
    range=environ.get('HTTP_RANGE','bytes=0-').replace
('bytes=','').split(',')
    offset=[]
    for r in range: offset.append(r.split('-'))
    with open(query,'w+') as f:
         f.seek(int(offset[0][0]))
         while True:
             chunk=environ['wsgi.input'].read(8192).decode('latin1')
             if not chunk: break
             f.write(chunk)
    f=open(query)
    l=str(os.fstat(f.fileno()).st_size)
    response('200 OK', [('Content-Type', 'text/plain'), ('Content-
Length', str(len(l)))])
    return [l]

also why must I open the file a second time to know how big it is ?




From nmm1 at cam.ac.uk  Mon Aug 24 14:55:38 2009
From: nmm1 at cam.ac.uk (nmm1 at cam.ac.uk)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:55:38 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
	
	<760c8bce-c634-4af1-a829-efa8c2d5ed29@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	<1j4y84p.v5docbtueccmN%nospam@see.signature>
Message-ID: 

In article <1j4y84p.v5docbtueccmN%nospam at see.signature>,
Richard Maine  wrote:
>
>Only character strings of length 1 are interoperable, as the term
>"interoperable" is defined in the Fortran standard. However, that does
>not mean that only character strings of length 1 will work with C. The
>distinction might be picky, but it is important.

Precisely.  And the kludge does NOT work under all circumstances,
which is why I said that it doesn't work very well.

Consider, for example:

    SUBROUTINE Fred (X) BIND(C)
    CHARACTER*(*) :: X
    END SUBROUTINE Fred

    CHARACTER(LEN=100) :: string
    CALL Fred(string(40:60))
    CALL Fred(string(5:50))

This is not currently allowed and raises all sorts of 'interesting'
implementation and portability questions.  For example, I defy anyone
to write Fred portably in C :-)

It gets really hairy if you have functions that have assumed length
results, but those are obsolescent.

Even when Fred has an explicit length, there are some problematic
cases, which could catch out programmers in one language that don't
know the other fairly well.  But those are much less of a problem
than the common need for assumed length CHARACTER arguments.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Mon Aug 24 15:14:26 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 12:14:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
	 
	<760c8bce-c634-4af1-a829-efa8c2d5ed29@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com> 
	<1j4y84p.v5docbtueccmN%nospam@see.signature>
	
Message-ID: <7abee4bb-b18a-4680-817b-7e76aed40194@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On 24 Aug, 20:55, n... at cam.ac.uk wrote:

> Precisely. ?And the kludge does NOT work under all circumstances,
> which is why I said that it doesn't work very well.

Do you have an example?


> Consider, for example:
>
> ? ? SUBROUTINE Fred (X) BIND(C)
> ? ? CHARACTER*(*) :: X
> ? ? END SUBROUTINE Fred


Obviously that is not allowed, because C does not know anything about
Fortran strings. How should a C compiler pass the correct data
structure to Fred?

The C bindings in Fortran 2003 has functions to convert C pointers to
Fortran pointers (c_f_pointer, c_f_procpointer), because C does not
know the ABI of a particular Fortran implementation.






From http  Mon Aug 24 15:17:39 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 24 Aug 2009 12:17:39 -0700
Subject: your favorite debugging tool?
References: 
Message-ID: <7xocq5vx64.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Esmail  writes:
> What is your favorite tool to help you debug your
> code? I've been getting along with 'print' statements
> but that is getting old and somewhat cumbersome.

Beyond print statements, I use pdb a lot.  Winpdb (www.winpdb.org) is
even better, but is kind of cumbersome to get working.


From gah at ugcs.caltech.edu  Mon Aug 24 15:23:53 2009
From: gah at ugcs.caltech.edu (glen herrmannsfeldt)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:23:53 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
	
	<760c8bce-c634-4af1-a829-efa8c2d5ed29@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	<1j4y84p.v5docbtueccmN%nospam@see.signature>
	
Message-ID: 

In comp.lang.fortran nmm1 at cam.ac.uk wrote:
(snip)
 
< Precisely.  And the kludge does NOT work under all circumstances,
< which is why I said that it doesn't work very well.
 
< Consider, for example:
 
<    SUBROUTINE Fred (X) BIND(C)
<    CHARACTER*(*) :: X
<    END SUBROUTINE Fred
 
<    CHARACTER(LEN=100) :: string
<    CALL Fred(string(40:60))
<    CALL Fred(string(5:50))
 
< This is not currently allowed and raises all sorts of 'interesting'
< implementation and portability questions.  For example, I defy anyone
< to write Fred portably in C :-)

You mean, how does FRED know the length?  It seems to me the
usual question for Fortran assumed size arrays.  Assuming that
FRED can tell from the passed string, it seems fine to me.
If not, it is a problem.  

Null terminated strings are a C convention, supported by
the library and compiler (string constants).  Others are legal C,
though you have to be careful which library routines you use.
 
< It gets really hairy if you have functions that have assumed length
< results, but those are obsolescent.
 
< Even when Fred has an explicit length, there are some problematic
< cases, which could catch out programmers in one language that don't
< know the other fairly well.  But those are much less of a problem
< than the common need for assumed length CHARACTER arguments.

Maybe Fortran programmers who started in Fortran 66 will not
have so much problem with this.  The usual way would be to
pass the length, as with assumed size arrays.  I believe terminating
strings with unusual (likely not null) characters was also done.

-- glen


From nmm1 at cam.ac.uk  Mon Aug 24 15:24:35 2009
From: nmm1 at cam.ac.uk (nmm1 at cam.ac.uk)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 20:24:35 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
	<1j4y84p.v5docbtueccmN%nospam@see.signature>
	
	<7abee4bb-b18a-4680-817b-7e76aed40194@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

In article <7abee4bb-b18a-4680-817b-7e76aed40194 at c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>,
sturlamolden   wrote:
>
>> Precisely. =A0And the kludge does NOT work under all circumstances,
>> which is why I said that it doesn't work very well.
>
>Do you have an example?

I gave you one.  Also see below.

>> Consider, for example:
>>
>> =A0 =A0 SUBROUTINE Fred (X) BIND(C)
>> =A0 =A0 CHARACTER*(*) :: X
>> =A0 =A0 END SUBROUTINE Fred
>
>Obviously that is not allowed, because C does not know anything about
>Fortran strings. How should a C compiler pass the correct data
>structure to Fred?

Precisely.  The reason I asked that question is that it would be
possible to extend the standard to make it possible in a portable
fashion.

You might also like to consider the converse problem: how to write
a Fortran function that takes a C string of arbitrary length and
uses it.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Mon Aug 24 15:37:00 2009
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:37:00 -0500
Subject: How does the file.seek() work ?
In-Reply-To: <2feaaf6c-d723-4843-a9e5-271d00187180@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <2feaaf6c-d723-4843-a9e5-271d00187180@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A92EBDC.8010901@tim.thechases.com>

> I want the file pointer set to 100 and overwrite everything from there
[snip]
> def application(environ, response):
>     query=os.path.join(os.path.dirname(__file__),'teeeeeeeeeemp')
>     range=environ.get('HTTP_RANGE','bytes=0-').replace
> ('bytes=','').split(',')
>     offset=[]
>     for r in range: offset.append(r.split('-'))
>     with open(query,'w+') as f:
>          f.seek(int(offset[0][0]))
>          while True:
>              chunk=environ['wsgi.input'].read(8192).decode('latin1')
>              if not chunk: break
>              f.write(chunk)
>     f=open(query)
>     l=str(os.fstat(f.fileno()).st_size)
>     response('200 OK', [('Content-Type', 'text/plain'), ('Content-
> Length', str(len(l)))])
>     return [l]

A couple items of note:

- you don't open the file in binary mode -- seek is more reliable 
in binary mode :)

- if you want to lop off the rest of the file, use f.truncate()

An example:

# create the initial file
 >>> f = file('zzz.zzz', 'wb+')
 >>> f.write('abcdefghijklmnop')
 >>> f.close()

 >>> f = file('zzz.zzz', 'ab+')
 >>> f.read() # show the existing content
'abcdefghijklmnop'
 >>> f.seek(5) # seek to the desired offset
 >>> f.truncate() # throw away everything after here
 >>> f.write('zyx') # write the new data at pos=5
 >>> f.close()

# demonstrate that it worked
 >>> f = file('zzz.zzz', 'rb')
 >>> f.read()
'abcdezyx'
 >>> f.close()

> also why must I open the file a second time to know how big it is ?

Likely the output has been buffered.  You can try using

   f.flush() # write all the data to the disk first
   size = os.fstat(f.fileno()).st_size

which seems to do the trick for me.

-tkc










From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Mon Aug 24 15:40:14 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:40:14 -0300
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: 
	<0018e1a0$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<20090823031901.GX20434@dragontoe.org>
	
	<87fxbifzb7.fsf@golux.woodcraft.me.uk>
	
	<0b380152-efb5-4cee-b75e-28ff59e095fd@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<02a2b7f1$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<20090824174024.GF20434@dragontoe.org>
Message-ID: 

En Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:40:24 -0300, Derek Martin   
escribi?:

> Why is it so hard for you to accept that intelligent people can
> disagree with you, and that what's right for you might be bad for
> others?

Ask the same question yourself please.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From gordon at panix.com  Mon Aug 24 15:41:17 2009
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:41:17 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Web Services examples using "raw" xml?
Message-ID: 

I'm developing a program that will use web services, which I have never
used before.

There are several tutorials out there that advise you to get the WSDL
and then call a method (such as wsdl2py) that inspects the wsdl and
automagically generates the python classes and methods you need for
interacting with that web service.

I've tried this, and have run into a number of roadblocks that have left
me frustrated.

For example I tried wsdl2py() from the ZSI package, and got this error:

Error loading services.xml:
    namespace of schema and import match

I tried WSDL.Proxy() from the SOAPpy package and eventually end up
with this error:

xml.parsers.expat.ExpatError: not well-formed (invalid token): line 1, column 6

I tried Client() from the suds package, and got this error:

  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/suds/client.py", line 59
    @classmethod
    ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

I'm not an expert; I have no idea what any of these errors mean, and I
have no idea how to go about resolving them.

So I decided to take a step back and see if I could bypass all the fancy
automagic methods and just create my own SOAP xml message from scratch
and then send it to the web server.  That would work, surely.

But I'm having a tough time finding some good examples of that, because
all the tutorials I've found just tell you to use the aforementioned
magic methods, which unfortunately don;t seem to be working for me.

Does anyone have some good examples of code that builds a "raw" xml SOAP
message and sends it to a webserver, then reads the response?  I think
that would be a good place for me to start.

Thanks for any replies.

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From gert.cuykens at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 15:41:59 2009
From: gert.cuykens at gmail.com (gert)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 12:41:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How does the file.seek() work ?
References: <2feaaf6c-d723-4843-a9e5-271d00187180@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <6a22c4d5-1f6b-4ebf-9f4e-3f039d213a49@r42g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 24, 9:37?pm, Tim Chase  wrote:
> > I want the file pointer set to 100 and overwrite everything from there
> [snip]
> > def application(environ, response):
> > ? ? query=os.path.join(os.path.dirname(__file__),'teeeeeeeeeemp')
> > ? ? range=environ.get('HTTP_RANGE','bytes=0-').replace
> > ('bytes=','').split(',')
> > ? ? offset=[]
> > ? ? for r in range: offset.append(r.split('-'))
> > ? ? with open(query,'w+') as f:
> > ? ? ? ? ?f.seek(int(offset[0][0]))
> > ? ? ? ? ?while True:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?chunk=environ['wsgi.input'].read(8192).decode('latin1')
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?if not chunk: break
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?f.write(chunk)
> > ? ? f=open(query)
> > ? ? l=str(os.fstat(f.fileno()).st_size)
> > ? ? response('200 OK', [('Content-Type', 'text/plain'), ('Content-
> > Length', str(len(l)))])
> > ? ? return [l]
>
> A couple items of note:
>
> - you don't open the file in binary mode -- seek is more reliable
> in binary mode :)
>
> - if you want to lop off the rest of the file, use f.truncate()
>
> An example:
>
> # create the initial file
> ?>>> f = file('zzz.zzz', 'wb+')
> ?>>> f.write('abcdefghijklmnop')
> ?>>> f.close()
>
> ?>>> f = file('zzz.zzz', 'ab+')
> ?>>> f.read() # show the existing content
> 'abcdefghijklmnop'
> ?>>> f.seek(5) # seek to the desired offset
> ?>>> f.truncate() # throw away everything after here
> ?>>> f.write('zyx') # write the new data at pos=5
> ?>>> f.close()
>
> # demonstrate that it worked
> ?>>> f = file('zzz.zzz', 'rb')
> ?>>> f.read()
> 'abcdezyx'
> ?>>> f.close()
>
> > also why must I open the file a second time to know how big it is ?
>
> Likely the output has been buffered. ?You can try using
>
> ? ?f.flush() # write all the data to the disk first
> ? ?size = os.fstat(f.fileno()).st_size
>
> which seems to do the trick for me.
>
> -tkc

Doh! my curl was wrong, thanks :)

curl -C 100 upload2.wsgi http://192.168.2.17/appwsgi/wsgi/upload2.wsgi
-v


From nagle at animats.com  Mon Aug 24 15:51:55 2009
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 12:51:55 -0700
Subject: Web Services examples using "raw" xml?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4a92ee38$0$1627$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

John Gordon wrote:
> I'm developing a program that will use web services, which I have never
> used before.

    Web services in general, or some Microsoft interface?

				John Nagle


From nmm1 at cam.ac.uk  Mon Aug 24 15:54:38 2009
From: nmm1 at cam.ac.uk (nmm1 at cam.ac.uk)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 20:54:38 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
	<1j4y84p.v5docbtueccmN%nospam@see.signature>
	
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
glen herrmannsfeldt   wrote:
> 
>< Consider, for example:
> 
><    SUBROUTINE Fred (X) BIND(C)
><    CHARACTER*(*) :: X
><    END SUBROUTINE Fred
> 
><    CHARACTER(LEN=100) :: string
><    CALL Fred(string(40:60))
><    CALL Fred(string(5:50))
> 
>< This is not currently allowed and raises all sorts of 'interesting'
>< implementation and portability questions.  For example, I defy anyone
>< to write Fred portably in C :-)
>
>You mean, how does FRED know the length?  It seems to me the
>usual question for Fortran assumed size arrays.  Assuming that
>FRED can tell from the passed string, it seems fine to me.
>If not, it is a problem.  

Precisely.  And the whole point of my question is how many people
WANT to do it, from the point of view of extending BIND(C).

>< Even when Fred has an explicit length, there are some problematic
>< cases, which could catch out programmers in one language that don't
>< know the other fairly well.  But those are much less of a problem
>< than the common need for assumed length CHARACTER arguments.
>
>Maybe Fortran programmers who started in Fortran 66 will not
>have so much problem with this.  The usual way would be to
>pass the length, as with assumed size arrays.  I believe terminating
>strings with unusual (likely not null) characters was also done.

Yeah.  But there are a decreasing number of us left :-)

Prefix length strings were also used.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.


From jkpeck at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 15:55:31 2009
From: jkpeck at gmail.com (JKPeck)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 12:55:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: csv module and None values
References: 
Message-ID: <040ec55a-5b14-41c4-8099-683a6d3a0a45@n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 24, 11:30?am, JKPeck  wrote:
> I'm trying to get the csv module (Python 2.6) to write data records
> like Excel. ?The excel dialect isn't doing it. ?The problem is in
> writing None values. ?I want them to result in just sequential commas
> - ,, but csv treats None specially, as the doc says,
>
> "To make it as easy as possible to interface with modules which
> implement the DB API, the value None is written as the empty string."
>
> I need strings to be quoted but not None values. ?Is there any way to
> get around this special None treatment?
>
> TIA,
> Jon Peck

Solved the problem myself by giving a writer class to csv.writer that
looks for sentinel markers inserted in place of None and wipes them
out before writing to a file.  Pretty ugly, but it works.

Regards,
Jon Peck


From gordon at panix.com  Mon Aug 24 15:57:06 2009
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:57:06 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Web Services examples using "raw" xml?
References: 
	<4a92ee38$0$1627$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: 

In <4a92ee38$0$1627$742ec2ed at news.sonic.net> John Nagle  writes:

> John Gordon wrote:
> > I'm developing a program that will use web services, which I have never
> > used before.

>     Web services in general, or some Microsoft interface?

Microsoft.  Exchange Web Services, specifically.

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Mon Aug 24 16:03:06 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 13:03:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
	<1j4y84p.v5docbtueccmN%nospam@see.signature> 
	
	<7abee4bb-b18a-4680-817b-7e76aed40194@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On 24 Aug, 21:24, n... at cam.ac.uk wrote:

> You might also like to consider the converse problem: how to write
> a Fortran function that takes a C string of arbitrary length and
> uses it.

That's what the code I showed you does.



From code at pizzashack.org  Mon Aug 24 16:14:24 2009
From: code at pizzashack.org (Derek Martin)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:14:24 -0500
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: 
References: <0018e1a0$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<20090823031901.GX20434@dragontoe.org>
	
	<87fxbifzb7.fsf@golux.woodcraft.me.uk>
	
	<0b380152-efb5-4cee-b75e-28ff59e095fd@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<02a2b7f1$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<20090824174024.GF20434@dragontoe.org>
	
Message-ID: <20090824201424.GG20434@dragontoe.org>

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 04:40:14PM -0300, Gabriel Genellina wrote:
> En Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:40:24 -0300, Derek Martin
>  escribi?:
> 
> >Why is it so hard for you to accept that intelligent people can
> >disagree with you, and that what's right for you might be bad for
> >others?
> 
> Ask the same question yourself please.

I accept it.  But I reserve the right to voice my dissent, and am
doing so.  The Usual Suspects in this forum seem to suggest that the
change is some silver bullet that makes Python suddenly Right With The
World, and I say it just ain't so.  I happen to opine that the old
behavior was better, and I will not be dissuaded from that opinion
just because a few prominent posters in this forum suggest that I'm an
idiot for disagreeing with them.

My original post in this thread, if you weren't paying attention, was
in opposition to several people trying to cram the idea down the
throats of other posters that leading zeros to represent octal numbers 
is inherently evil, and that anyone who suggests otherwise is an
Apostate to be damned for all eternity.  

Alright, I exaggerate.  Slightly. :)  

-- 
Derek D. Martin
http://www.pizzashack.org/
GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D

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From vorticitywolfe at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 16:29:07 2009
From: vorticitywolfe at gmail.com (J Wolfe)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 13:29:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Pmw optionmenu color
Message-ID: <0faab022-2ad1-4579-a5b9-54f93591c953@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

It seems like this should be easy to do... change the background color
of the Pmw optionmenu.  I have not been able to find this. Anyone have
a hint or know how to do this?

Thanks,
Jonathan


From ryniek90 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 16:34:51 2009
From: ryniek90 at gmail.com (ryniek)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 13:34:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Temat:, Re: IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename: 
	in windows xp while making tarfile
References:  
	<4A928B4B.9030502@gmail.com> <4A92A57A.5010105@dejaviewphoto.com> 
	
	<4ec18c68-b8b5-401e-b910-802b7662dced@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <321b8396-0806-4a1a-9a32-efbb147e6b4b@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On 24 Sie, 16:56, John Machin  wrote:
> On Aug 25, 12:46?am, Tim Golden  wrote:
>
> > Dave Angel wrote:
> > > You still haven't gotten rid of those illegal colons in the filename. ?
> > > They're not legal in Windows, as has been pointed out a couple of times
> > > in this thread.
>
> > Ummm.. Colons are of course legal in Windows filenames as designating
>
> That is the most inappropriate "of course" I've seen for quite a
> while.
>
> > the Alternate Data Streams:
>
> OK, so s/illegal/evil/


Ok, but how to get rid of those colons?
Is it necessary?


From deets at nospam.web.de  Mon Aug 24 16:36:54 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 22:36:54 +0200
Subject: Web Services examples using "raw" xml?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7fgbv7F2l9u4oU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

John Gordon schrieb:
> I'm developing a program that will use web services, which I have never
> used before.
> 
> There are several tutorials out there that advise you to get the WSDL
> and then call a method (such as wsdl2py) that inspects the wsdl and
> automagically generates the python classes and methods you need for
> interacting with that web service.
> 
> I've tried this, and have run into a number of roadblocks that have left
> me frustrated.

Welcome to the wonderful world of SOAP. If you didn't know - the S 
stands for simple [1].

I don't want to go into a rant about the why and how SOAP sucks, and why 
it's support in Python is lacking - to say the least.

What we did in a similar situation was this:

  - got hold of a client that was able to speak with the server. In your 
case, a .NET-client shouldn't be hard to get working.
  - monitor the traffic that went on between the client and server using 
some HTTP-proxy or WireShark.
  - mimicked the server-side protocol by dynamising the sniffed traffic 
through an XML-templating tool, genshi in our case.

Sounds archaic, and complicated? Yes. Blame SOAP (and Microsoft, it's 
biggest proponent)


Diez


[1] http://72.249.21.88/nonintersecting/2006/11/15/the-s-stands-for-simple/


From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Aug 24 16:41:37 2009
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 22:41:37 +0200
Subject: print() and unicode strings (python 3.1)
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4eda8137-7db9-4c39-a2c1-3477b071f7f6@x5g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<4a92b83b$0$27209$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	
Message-ID: <4a92fb02$0$2582$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

> I can't figure out a way to programatically set the encoding for
> sys.stdout.  So where does that leave me?

You should be setting the terminal encoding administratively, not
programmatically.

Regards,
Martin


From not_valid at comcast.net  Mon Aug 24 16:55:19 2009
From: not_valid at comcast.net (James Van Buskirk)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:55:19 -0600
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
	
	
	
	<1j4ww90.pvvxweehycu0N%nospam@see.signature>
	<5134d9f1-0e23-4e05-a817-bf0cc9e85d3e@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
	<760c8bce-c634-4af1-a829-efa8c2d5ed29@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	<1j4y84p.v5docbtueccmN%nospam@see.signature>
Message-ID: 

"Richard Maine"  wrote in message 
news:1j4y84p.v5docbtueccmN%nospam at see.signature...

> There might be a confusion here (and I'm not even sure on whose part) on
> a picky but important detail of wording. I have seen multiple people
> confused by this one before. In fact, some potential confusion was
> forseen, which is why there are notes specifically about it in the
> Fortran standard (see below). Those notes do tend to get overlooked
> though.

> Only character strings of length 1 are interoperable, as the term
> "interoperable" is defined in the Fortran standard. However, that does
> not mean that only character strings of length 1 will work with C. The
> distinction might be picky, but it is important.

> See Note 15.19 (which in turn cites an example in Note 15.23) of f2003.
> You can pass a Fortran string of length n as an actual argument
> corrseponding to a dummy argument that is an array of n character*1
> elements. This isn't considered a question of "interoperability", as it
> is a feature purely within Fortran, but it does impact on what kinds of
> things work.

> One might plausibly regard this as a kludge, but it is a kludge that is
> part of the Fortran standard and is guaranteed to work with all Fortran
> compilers. I almost said all f2003-compliant compilers (admittedly a
> limited set), but then I recalled that the feature actually dates back
> to f77 when character type was introduced; f2003 just extends it to the
> C character kind for the obscure case where the C character kind might
> be different from the default character kind (I don't know of any
> compilers where this is so, but the standard allows for it).

No, this is a tricky point.  It was allowed in f77 to pass an array
actual argument to a scalar character dummy argument, but the ability
to pass a scalar character actual argument to an array dummy argument
is new to the sequence association rules of f2003.  So your first
impression was more accurate than the result of thoughtful reflection :)

-- 
write(*,*) transfer((/17.392111325966148d0,6.5794487871554595D-85, &
6.0134700243160014d-154/),(/'x'/)); end




From __peter__ at web.de  Mon Aug 24 17:00:44 2009
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:00:44 +0200
Subject: csv module and None values
References: 
Message-ID: 

JKPeck wrote:

> I'm trying to get the csv module (Python 2.6) to write data records
> like Excel.  The excel dialect isn't doing it.  The problem is in
> writing None values.  I want them to result in just sequential commas
> - ,, but csv treats None specially, as the doc says,
> 
> "To make it as easy as possible to interface with modules which
> implement the DB API, the value None is written as the empty string."
> 
> I need strings to be quoted but not None values.  Is there any way to
> get around this special None treatment?

If I understand you correctly the csv.writer already does what you want:

Python 2.6.2 (release26-maint, Apr 19 2009, 01:58:18)
[GCC 4.3.3] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import csv, sys
>>> w = csv.writer(sys.stdout)
>>> w.writerow([1,None,2])
1,,2

just sequential commas, but that is the special treatment. Without it the 
the None value would be converted to a string and the line would look like 
this one:

>>> class LooksLikeNone:
...     def __str__(self): return "None"
...
>>> w.writerow([1,LooksLikeNone(),2])
1,None,2

Peter



From ryniek90 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 17:23:41 2009
From: ryniek90 at gmail.com (ryniek)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:23:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Temat:, Re: IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename: 
	in windows xp while making tarfile
References:  
	<4A928B4B.9030502@gmail.com> <4A92A57A.5010105@dejaviewphoto.com> 
	
	<4ec18c68-b8b5-401e-b910-802b7662dced@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<321b8396-0806-4a1a-9a32-efbb147e6b4b@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On 24 Sie, 22:34, ryniek  wrote:
> On 24 Sie, 16:56, John Machin  wrote:
>
> > On Aug 25, 12:46?am, Tim Golden  wrote:
>
> > > Dave Angel wrote:
> > > > You still haven't gotten rid of those illegal colons in the filename. ?
> > > > They're not legal in Windows, as has been pointed out a couple of times
> > > > in this thread.
>
> > > Ummm.. Colons are of course legal in Windows filenames as designating
>
> > That is the most inappropriate "of course" I've seen for quite a
> > while.
>
> > > the Alternate Data Streams:
>
> > OK, so s/illegal/evil/
>
> Ok, but how to get rid of those colons?
> Is it necessary?

I dealt with it. Had to change 'w:bz2' into 'w|bz2'.

But now have another problem:
"
C:\Users\Ryniek's WinSe7en\Documents\My Dropbox\Aplikacje
\Moje_aplikacje\Pythonowe_aplikacje\Skrypty>python ba
ckuper.py -f E:\APLIKACJE\nowegg.exe E:\ MyGG
Checking permissions for reading and writing...
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "backuper.py", line 194, in 
    main_meth()
  File "backuper.py", line 186, in main_meth
    paq.backup_file(pars.options.filename[0], pars.options.filename
[1], pars.options.filename[2])
  File "backuper.py", line 114, in backup_file
    backup_obj = tarfile.open(dest, 'w|bz2')
  File "E:\WinSe7en Apps\APLIKACJE\ActiveState Python 2.6\lib
\tarfile.py", line 1675, in open
    _Stream(name, filemode, comptype, fileobj, bufsize),
  File "E:\WinSe7en Apps\APLIKACJE\ActiveState Python 2.6\lib
\tarfile.py", line 400, in __init__
    fileobj = _LowLevelFile(name, mode)
  File "E:\WinSe7en Apps\APLIKACJE\ActiveState Python 2.6\lib
\tarfile.py", line 373, in __init__
    self.fd = os.open(name, mode)
OSError: [Errno 22] Invalid argument: 'E:\\MyGG(2009-08-24
23:18:25).tar.bz2'
"

When i type path with foreward slashes, Python converts them to double
backslashes  :P
"
C:\Users\Ryniek's WinSe7en\Documents\My Dropbox\Aplikacje
\Moje_aplikacje\Pythonowe_aplikacje\Skrypty>python backuper.py -f E:/
APLIKACJE/nowegg.exe E:/ MyGG
Checking permissions for reading and writing...
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "backuper.py", line 194, in 
    main_meth()
  File "backuper.py", line 186, in main_meth
    paq.backup_file(pars.options.filename[0], pars.options.filename
[1], pars.options.filename[2])
  File "backuper.py", line 114, in backup_file
    backup_obj = tarfile.open(dest, 'w|bz2')
  File "E:\WinSe7en Apps\APLIKACJE\ActiveState Python 2.6\lib
\tarfile.py", line 1675, in open
    _Stream(name, filemode, comptype, fileobj, bufsize),
  File "E:\WinSe7en Apps\APLIKACJE\ActiveState Python 2.6\lib
\tarfile.py", line 400, in __init__
    fileobj = _LowLevelFile(name, mode)
  File "E:\WinSe7en Apps\APLIKACJE\ActiveState Python 2.6\lib
\tarfile.py", line 373, in __init__
    self.fd = os.open(name, mode)
OSError: [Errno 22] Invalid argument: 'E:\\MyGG(2009-08-24
23:20:19).tar.bz2'
"

I tried raw string also, but nothing helps.   :-/


From van.lindberg at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 17:37:34 2009
From: van.lindberg at gmail.com (VanL)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:37:34 -0500
Subject: Graph library recommendations for large graphs
Message-ID: 

I am working on a project that will require building and querying large 
graph objects (initially 8M nodes, 30-40M edges; eventually 40M nodes, 
100M edges). NetworkX seems to be the most popular, but I am concerned 
that a dict representation for nodes would use too much memory -- my 
initial tests suggest that a graph with 3M nodes and 12M edges creates 
substantial memory pressure on my machine.

Can anybody who has worked with large graphs before give a recommendation?

Thanks,

Van



From nospam at see.signature  Mon Aug 24 17:39:32 2009
From: nospam at see.signature (Richard Maine)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:39:32 -0700
Subject: Python/Fortran interoperability
References: 
	
	
	
	<1j4ww90.pvvxweehycu0N%nospam@see.signature>
	<5134d9f1-0e23-4e05-a817-bf0cc9e85d3e@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
	<760c8bce-c634-4af1-a829-efa8c2d5ed29@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	<1j4y84p.v5docbtueccmN%nospam@see.signature>
	
Message-ID: <1j4yiym.1jxu2ko10c7zucN%nospam@see.signature>

James Van Buskirk  wrote:

> "Richard Maine"  wrote in message 
> news:1j4y84p.v5docbtueccmN%nospam at see.signature...
> 

> > One might plausibly regard this as a kludge, but it is a kludge that is
> > part of the Fortran standard and is guaranteed to work with all Fortran
> > compilers. I almost said all f2003-compliant compilers (admittedly a
> > limited set), but then I recalled that the feature actually dates back
> > to f77 when character type was introduced; f2003 just extends it to the
> > C character kind for the obscure case where the C character kind might
> > be different from the default character kind (I don't know of any
> > compilers where this is so, but the standard allows for it).
> 
> No, this is a tricky point.  It was allowed in f77 to pass an array
> actual argument to a scalar character dummy argument, but the ability
> to pass a scalar character actual argument to an array dummy argument
> is new to the sequence association rules of f2003.  So your first
> impression was more accurate than the result of thoughtful reflection :)

Ah. You might be right - probably you are. I know there is some closely
related stuff that goes back a ways and was just extended to the C
character kind in f2003, but it might not have been that exact bit. I'm
probably thinking of the rule for sequence association that allows the
character length parameter to differ between the actual and dummy... as
long as you are doing sequence association. But it might be a new rule
that puts the scalar case under sequence association; that's probably
it. Not worth dragging out the standards to check, but I bet that's it.

-- 
Richard Maine                    | Good judgment comes from experience;
email: last name at domain . net | experience comes from bad judgment.
domain: summertriangle           |  -- Mark Twain


From drobinow at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 17:43:41 2009
From: drobinow at gmail.com (David Robinow)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:43:41 -0400
Subject: Reading binary files
In-Reply-To: <9c8c445f0908240950h24e5bfccoc9ae809c1048be5d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9c8c445f0908240735k6599045dn5ecbd63fa76bfe6e@mail.gmail.com>
	<1251125039.23757.0.camel@brotherus.corp.redhat.com>
	<9c8c445f0908240818k1ae301acr49c65ccb21435cd7@mail.gmail.com>
	<9c8c445f0908240950h24e5bfccoc9ae809c1048be5d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4eb0089f0908241443p348eea3dxd57581e37f94d0bd@mail.gmail.com>

>> This works for a simple binary file, but the actual file I'm trying to
>> read is give throwing an error that the file cannot be found. Here is the
>> name of the my file:
>> 2009.08.02_06.52.00_WA-1_0001_00_0662_0.jstars
>>
>> Should python have trouble reading this file name or extension?
>
> I'm having trouble with the filename:
> 2009.08.02_06.52.00_WA-1_0001_00_0662_0.jstars
>
> It throws an error with that file name, When I change it to something like
> sample.txt it runs, but the data is still garbled. Is there any reason why I
> can't use the above file name? If I'm using 'rb' to read the binary file why
> is it still garbled?
 I don't think it's garbled. It's a binary file. What do you expect?

It's been over ten years since I've worked with any JSTARS stuff so I
can't give you any details but you almost certainly have some sort of
imagery. The military has a lot of bizarre formats and whoever sent
you the data should have included a data sheet describing the format
(or a pointer to such).  Ideally, you'll also get a pointer to code to
read the thing, but sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and
write a program to process the file.
   (If all else fails, look at a dump of the first 512 bytes or so;
often the image size is included at the beginning; maybe in ASCII, 16
bit ints, 32 bit ints, floating point -- who knows)
There've been times when I had to just display the thing at 512 or
1024 bytes (or ints) per row and try to surmise the info from that.
So, look for the file description.
...
Googling a bit:   I see there's a package at
   http://www.mbari.org/data/mbsystem/index.html
which purports to handle some JSTARS stuff. I've no idea if that will help you.


From pavpanchekha at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 18:07:54 2009
From: pavpanchekha at gmail.com (Pavel Panchekha)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:07:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Distutils evil voodoo: install into a package
Message-ID: <824505df-5534-423e-b72c-06d0f62b376b@p15g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

Before you flame me, I know that what I'm trying to do is beyond evil.
But I nonetheless want to do it. Feel free to rant if you must. :)

I have a package that I want to install into another package. For
example, I have the packages pya and pyb.
pya is guaranteed to be installed before pyb is, so that's not an
issue. pya is installed as the module `pya`. I want to install pyb
into the module `pya.pyb`.

Is there any way to do this beyond figuring out what the path is and
installing the entire pyb directory as data_files?


From deets at nospam.web.de  Mon Aug 24 18:21:05 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 00:21:05 +0200
Subject: Graph library recommendations for large graphs
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7fgi2iF2juk72U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

VanL schrieb:
> I am working on a project that will require building and querying large 
> graph objects (initially 8M nodes, 30-40M edges; eventually 40M nodes, 
> 100M edges). NetworkX seems to be the most popular, but I am concerned 
> that a dict representation for nodes would use too much memory -- my 
> initial tests suggest that a graph with 3M nodes and 12M edges creates 
> substantial memory pressure on my machine.
> 
> Can anybody who has worked with large graphs before give a recommendation?

My initial tests show otherwise. The below test-script creates 3 million 
nodes with 12 million adjacencies, on my 2GB Notebook.

The theoretical limit for this (if we assume pointer-based 
adjacency-references which makes sense if we have sparse graphs as your 
numbers indicate) is (32 bits assumed):

  - 8 bytes per node (4 byte pointer to adjacency list, 4 byte int for 
counting the number of adjacencies in that list)
  - 4 bytes per adjacency

This is 60.000.000 for your example - roughly 60MB. On my machine, the 
process has 320.000.000MB - (roughly) a factor five. Given the much 
richer properties a Python-object (and python-lists) have thas is pretty 
good I'd say.

So for your eventual size of 40M nodes, 100M edges, we have a 
theoretical amount of 560MB, times 5 makes 2.5 GB. Not exactly a low 
memory profile, but manageable on modern hardware.

I don't know anything about NetworkX - it still might be the better 
solution, given the underlying C-based algorithms. But if all you need 
is to represent a graph of that size, it appears to be working.


---- test.py ----

import random
import gc
import time

class Node(object):

     __slots__ = ["adjacencies", "value", "id"]

     def __init__(self, id):
         id = id
         value = random.random()
         self.adjacencies = []


nodes = []

gc.disable()
nc = 3000000

for i in xrange(nc):
     nodes.append(Node(i))
     if (i % 1000) == 0:
         print i

for i in xrange(12000000):
     a = random.randint(0, nc - 1)
     b = random.randint(0, nc - 1)
     while a == b:
         b = random.randint(0, nc)
     nodes[a].adjacencies.append(nodes[b])
     if (i % 1000) == 0:
         print "e", i


gc.enable()
while True:
     time.sleep(1)
     traversed = set()
     def depth_search(node, depth=0):
         traversed.add(node)
         if depth == 4:
             return
         for child in node.adjacencies:
             if child not in traversed:
                 depth_search(child, depth+1)

     depth_search(nodes[random.randint(0, nc - 1)])

------


Diez


From deets at nospam.web.de  Mon Aug 24 18:22:48 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 00:22:48 +0200
Subject: Distutils evil voodoo: install into a package
In-Reply-To: <824505df-5534-423e-b72c-06d0f62b376b@p15g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: <824505df-5534-423e-b72c-06d0f62b376b@p15g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7fgi5oF2juk72U2@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Pavel Panchekha schrieb:
> Before you flame me, I know that what I'm trying to do is beyond evil.
> But I nonetheless want to do it. Feel free to rant if you must. :)
> 
> I have a package that I want to install into another package. For
> example, I have the packages pya and pyb.
> pya is guaranteed to be installed before pyb is, so that's not an
> issue. pya is installed as the module `pya`. I want to install pyb
> into the module `pya.pyb`.
> 
> Is there any way to do this beyond figuring out what the path is and
> installing the entire pyb directory as data_files?

This is what whe world has created namespace-packages for. At least if 
you can live with the namespace "pya" being otherwise empty.

Pray tell - what is your usecase?

Diez


From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Mon Aug 24 18:46:25 2009
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (Bearophile)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:46:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Graph library recommendations for large graphs
References: 
Message-ID: 

You may try the Python bindings for the Boost Graph Library, the graph
you talk about may fit in 2GB of a 32 bit OS too (this is the first
link I have found, it's a lot of time I don't use those graph
bindings):
http://banyan.usc.edu/log/c_cpp/boost-graph-library-python-bindings

Bye,
bearophile


From james.harris.1 at googlemail.com  Mon Aug 24 19:23:06 2009
From: james.harris.1 at googlemail.com (James Harris)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:23:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
References:  
	
	 
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com> 
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
	
	
	<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com> 
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

On 24 Aug, 14:05, Mel  wrote:
> James Harris wrote:
> > On 24 Aug, 02:19, Max Erickson  wrote:

> [ ... ]
> >> >>> int('100', 3)
> >> 9
> >> >>> int('100', 36)
> >> 1296
>
> > This is fine typed into the language directly but couldn't be entered
> > by the user or read-in from or written to a file.
>
> That's rather beside the point. ?Literals don't essentially come from files
> or user input. ?Essentially literals are a subset of expressions, just like
> function calls are, and they have to be evaluated by Python to yield a
> value. ?I'm not averse to 32'rst', but we already have

...

> >>> int ('rst', 32)
>
> 28573

Sure but while I wouldn't normally want to type something as obscure
as 32"rst" into a file of data I might want to type 0xff00 or similar.
That is far clearer than 65280 in some cases.

My point was that int('ff00', 16) is OK for the programmer but cannot
be used generally as it includes a function call.

James


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Mon Aug 24 19:26:38 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 01:26:38 +0200
Subject: basic thread question
References: <20090818201015.GP20434@dragontoe.org>
	
	<4a922086$0$1619$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	
	
	
	<4224e772-5b67-4eea-9bdf-a7d2bf7cc128@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

>>>>> sturlamolden  (s) wrote:

>s> On 24 Aug, 13:21, Piet van Oostrum  wrote:
>>> But os.fork() is not available on Windows. And I guess refcounts et al.
>>> will soon destroy the sharing.

>s> Well, there is os.fork in Cygwin and SUA (SUA is the Unix subsytem in
>s> Windows Vista Professional). Cygwin's fork is a bit sluggish.

That's because it doesn't use copy-on-write. Thereby losing most of its
advantages. I don't know SUA, but I have vaguely heard about it.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From istvan.albert at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 19:54:43 2009
From: istvan.albert at gmail.com (Istvan Albert)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:54:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Graph library recommendations for large graphs
References: 
Message-ID: <1ea9e905-e758-4c83-917b-862b63fdc8fb@p36g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 24, 5:37?pm, VanL  wrote:
>
> Can anybody who has worked with large graphs before give a recommendation?
>

when using large graphs another limitation may come from the various
graph algorithm run times. Most likely you will need to squeeze out as
much as possible and a python implementation has a lot of overhead.

I've used the LEDA graph library with great success. This is a C++
library with substantial syntax sugar that looks a bit like python
(and I made some python bindings for it via SWIG and thus got the best
of both worlds, lost the code I'm afraid).

http://www.algorithmic-solutions.info/leda_guide/Graphs.html

i.


From davea at ieee.org  Mon Aug 24 20:09:10 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 20:09:10 -0400
Subject: Temat:, Re: IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename:
	in windows xp while making tarfile
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<4A928B4B.9030502@gmail.com> <4A92A57A.5010105@dejaviewphoto.com>
		<4ec18c68-b8b5-401e-b910-802b7662dced@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>	<321b8396-0806-4a1a-9a32-efbb147e6b4b@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4A932BA6.3090801@ieee.org>

You shouldn't want either a colon or a pipe symbol in the filename 
string (not counting the drive letter prefix).
A single colon gives you surprising behavior, and two will give you 
Invalid Argument.   See inline responses.

ryniek wrote:
> On 24 Sie, 22:34, ryniek  wrote:
>   
>>> 
>>>       
>> Ok, but how to get rid of those colons?
>> Is it necessary?
>>     
>
> I dealt with it. Had to change 'w:bz2' into 'w|bz2'.
>
>   
Looks to me like you're putting a pipe in again (unless that's just an 
artifact of the mail system)
> But now have another problem:
> "
> C:\Users\Ryniek's WinSe7en\Documents\My Dropbox\Aplikacje
> \Moje_aplikacje\Pythonowe_aplikacje\Skrypty>python ba
> ckuper.py -f E:\APLIKACJE\nowegg.exe E:\ MyGG
> Checking permissions for reading and writing...
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "backuper.py", line 194, in 
>     main_meth()
>   File "backuper.py", line 186, in main_meth
>     paq.backup_file(pars.options.filename[0], pars.options.filename
> [1], pars.options.filename[2])
>   File "backuper.py", line 114, in backup_file
>     backup_obj =arfile.open(dest, 'w|bz2')
>   File "E:\WinSe7en Apps\APLIKACJE\ActiveState Python 2.6\lib
> \tarfile.py", line 1675, in open
>     _Stream(name, filemode, comptype, fileobj, bufsize),
>   File "E:\WinSe7en Apps\APLIKACJE\ActiveState Python 2.6\lib
> \tarfile.py", line 400, in __init__
>     fileobj =LowLevelFile(name, mode)
>   File "E:\WinSe7en Apps\APLIKACJE\ActiveState Python 2.6\lib
> \tarfile.py", line 373, in __init__
>     self.fd =s.open(name, mode)
> OSError: [Errno 22] Invalid argument: 'E:\\MyGG(2009-08-24
> 23:18:25).tar.bz2'
> "
>
>   
Still have two erroneous colons in that string.  The one after the E is 
okay.
> When i type path with foreward slashes, Python converts them to double
> backslashes  :P
> "
> C:\Users\Ryniek's WinSe7en\Documents\My Dropbox\Aplikacje
> \Moje_aplikacje\Pythonowe_aplikacje\Skrypty>python backuper.py -f E:/
> APLIKACJE/nowegg.exe E:/ MyGG
> Checking permissions for reading and writing...
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "backuper.py", line 194, in 
>     main_meth()
>   File "backuper.py", line 186, in main_meth
>     paq.backup_file(pars.options.filename[0], pars.options.filename
> [1], pars.options.filename[2])
>   File "backuper.py", line 114, in backup_file
>     backup_obj =arfile.open(dest, 'w|bz2')
>   File "E:\WinSe7en Apps\APLIKACJE\ActiveState Python 2.6\lib
> \tarfile.py", line 1675, in open
>     _Stream(name, filemode, comptype, fileobj, bufsize),
>   File "E:\WinSe7en Apps\APLIKACJE\ActiveState Python 2.6\lib
> \tarfile.py", line 400, in __init__
>     fileobj =LowLevelFile(name, mode)
>   File "E:\WinSe7en Apps\APLIKACJE\ActiveState Python 2.6\lib
> \tarfile.py", line 373, in __init__
>     self.fd =s.open(name, mode)
> OSError: [Errno 22] Invalid argument: 'E:\\MyGG(2009-08-24
> 23:20:19).tar.bz2'
> "
>
> I tried raw string also, but nothing helps.   :-/
>
>   
If a string has a backslash in it, and it is printed, you see a single 
backslash.  But if it is output with repr(), then you see it doubled, 
just as you would do if you were typing it in as a literal.  That does 
NOT mean that it has a double backslash, it just means that particular 
display formatting shows you that.  Try the following to see what I mean:

 >>> st = r"e:\testing\again.txt"
 >>> st
'e:\\testing\\again.txt'
 >>> print st
e:\testing\again.txt
 >>> print [st, st]
['e:\\testing\\again.txt', 'e:\\testing\\again.txt']
 >>>

Since you don't know how a particular error message was constructed, you 
don't know for sure which way to interpret the results.  That comes with 
practice.  In the meantime, if you print a simple string with simple 
print, you should be able to see it fine.

Incidentally, in nearly every case, Windows ignores extra backslashes.  
So that's not likely to be your problem.  Get rid of those colons, 
without replacing them with pipes.

DaveA


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Mon Aug 24 20:16:33 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:16:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: basic thread question
References: <20090818201015.GP20434@dragontoe.org>
	 
	<4a922086$0$1619$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>  
	
	 
	<4224e772-5b67-4eea-9bdf-a7d2bf7cc128@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: <864e2d5f-0855-4f35-a78c-b09054e75f0d@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On 25 Aug, 01:26, Piet van Oostrum  wrote:

> That's because it doesn't use copy-on-write. Thereby losing most of its
> advantages. I don't know SUA, but I have vaguely heard about it.

SUA is a version of UNIX hidden inside Windows Vista and Windows 7
(except in Home and Home Premium), but very few seem to know of it.
SUA (Subsystem for Unix based Applications) is formerly known as
Interix, which is a certified version of UNIX based on OpenBSD. If you
go to http://www.interopsystems.com (a website run by Interop Systems
Inc., a company owned by Microsoft), you will find a lot of common
unix tools prebuilt for SUA, including Python 2.6.2.

The NT-kernel supports copy-on-write fork with a special system call
(ZwCreateProcess in ntdll.dll), which is what SUA's implementation of
fork() uses.


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Mon Aug 24 20:25:39 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 25 Aug 2009 00:25:39 GMT
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
References: 
	
	
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
	
	
	<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com>
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: <02a31f91$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:23:06 -0700, James Harris wrote:

> Sure but while I wouldn't normally want to type something as obscure as
> 32"rst" into a file of data I might want to type 0xff00 or similar. That
> is far clearer than 65280 in some cases.
> 
> My point was that int('ff00', 16) is OK for the programmer but cannot be
> used generally as it includes a function call.


No, it's the other way around. If you have *data*, whether entered at run 
time by the user or read from a file, you can easily pass it to a 
function to convert to an int. (In fact you have to do this anyway, 
because the data will be a string and you need an int.) 

If you want your data file to have values entered in hex, or oct, or even 
unary (1=one, 11=two, 111=three, 1111=four...) you can. There's no need 
to have the user enter int('ff00', 16) to get hex, just have them enter 
ff00.

But when writing *code*, you want syntax which will accept integers in 
the most common bases (decimal, a distant second hex, an even more 
distant third octal, and way out on the horizon binary) without the 
runtime cost of a function call.



-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Mon Aug 24 20:37:36 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 25 Aug 2009 00:37:36 GMT
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: 
	<0018e1a0$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<20090823031901.GX20434@dragontoe.org>
	
	<87fxbifzb7.fsf@golux.woodcraft.me.uk>
	
	<0b380152-efb5-4cee-b75e-28ff59e095fd@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<02a2b7f1$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <02a3225f$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 12:40:24 -0500, Derek Martin wrote:

> On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 05:03:28PM +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 11:21:46 -0500, Derek Martin wrote:
>> > since the old syntax is prevalent both within and without the Python
>> > community, making the change is, was, and always will be a bad idea.
>>
>> Octal syntax isn't prevalent *at all*, except in a small number of
>> niche areas.
> 
> Steven, don't be obtuse.  Where octal is used in programming, the
> leading zero is prevalent.

Now who is being obtuse? If you take *any* feature at all, no matter how 
rare, you can say "Where it is used, it is prevalent". Among people who 
program in Whitespace, all three of them, the use of spaces and tabs as 
significant programming tokens is prevalent.

This whole argument is over whether or not a "feature" desired by a tiny 
proportion of the programming community -- the intersection of those who 
use octal frequently enough that using an extra  'o' is a hardship, and 
those who use C-based languages -- should hold *everyone else* hostage to 
their badly thought out notation.


[...]
> Why is it so hard for you to accept that intelligent people can disagree
> with you, and that what's right for you might be bad for others?

I can accept that intelligent people can disagree with me. I even 
sympathise with you, that you're one of the minority who don't find octal 
archaic and unnecessary, and you'll need to learn a new syntax for octal 
literals in Python 3.x. But your argument is fundamentally "but we've 
always done it this way, and other languages do it, so why should we 
change?". We should change because the desire to prevent silent errors 
caused by (e.g.) 012 being interpreted as 10, and the desire to be 
consistent with both mathematical notation and floating point syntax 
outweighs the need to be backward compatible.

This change was not a spur of the moment thing, it went through the 
entire PEP process with due concern for backward compatibility, which 
Python does *not* change without good reason. You lost, get over it. I'm 
sorry that you personally find this change a hardship, but HTFU. If and 
when you move to Python 3.x, you'll get used to it. If you can get used 
to putting braces around code blocks in C and braces around dicts in 
Python, you're more than capable of getting used to writing 012 in C and 
0o12 in Python.



-- 
Steven


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Mon Aug 24 20:54:13 2009
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (greg)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 12:54:13 +1200
Subject: Literal concatenation, strings vs. numbers
In-Reply-To: <871vn2gcai.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
References: 			<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>		
	<87ljlahbn9.fsf@benfinney.id.au>		<7fe9mbF2l83bmU1@mid.individual.net>
	<871vn2gcai.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <7fgr0nF2l3st0U1@mid.individual.net>

Ben Finney wrote:

> So, different representations of literals are parsed as separate
> literals, then concatenated. To have the behaviour you describe, the
> case needs to be made separately that digit concatenation should not be
> consistent with the established string literal parsing behaviour.

I think it's a pretty easy case to make, since there is no
obvious way of "concatenating" numbers written in different
bases. So if it's to be allowed at all, it pretty much has
to be restricted to a single base.

However, I'd be just as happy with underscores. I don't
see how there could be any great difficulty with implementing
that -- it only affects the scanner.

-- 
Greg


From mensanator at aol.com  Mon Aug 24 21:01:38 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:01:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
References:  
	
	 
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com> 
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
	
	
	<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com> 
	
	
	
	
	<02a31f91$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <44bcb727-0885-4d4f-9c11-ca60a39b0d91@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 24, 7:25?pm, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:23:06 -0700, James Harris wrote:
> > Sure but while I wouldn't normally want to type something as obscure as
> > 32"rst" into a file of data I might want to type 0xff00 or similar. That
> > is far clearer than 65280 in some cases.
>
> > My point was that int('ff00', 16) is OK for the programmer but cannot be
> > used generally as it includes a function call.
>
> No, it's the other way around. If you have *data*, whether entered at run
> time by the user or read from a file, you can easily pass it to a
> function to convert to an int. (In fact you have to do this anyway,
> because the data will be a string and you need an int.)
>
> If you want your data file to have values entered in hex, or oct, or even
> unary (1=one, 11=two, 111=three, 1111=four...) you can.

Unary? I think you'll find that Standard Positional Number
Systems are not defined for radix 1.

> There's no need
> to have the user enter int('ff00', 16) to get hex, just have them enter
> ff00.
>
> But when writing *code*, you want syntax which will accept integers in
> the most common bases (decimal, a distant second hex, an even more
> distant third octal, and way out on the horizon binary) without the
> runtime cost of a function call.
>
> --
> Steven



From mwilson at the-wire.com  Mon Aug 24 21:21:32 2009
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:21:32 -0400
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal
	notation
References: 
	
	
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
	
	
	<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com>
	
	
	
	
	<02a31f91$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<44bcb727-0885-4d4f-9c11-ca60a39b0d91@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Mensanator wrote:
[ ... ]
>> If you want your data file to have values entered in hex, or oct, or even
>> unary (1=one, 11=two, 111=three, 1111=four...) you can.
> 
> Unary? I think you'll find that Standard Positional Number
> Systems are not defined for radix 1.

It has to be tweaked.  If the only digit you have is 0 then your numbers 
take the form

0*1 + 0*1**2 + 0*1**3 ...

and every number has an infinitely long representation.  If you cheat and 
take a 1 digit instead then it becomes workable.

	Mel.





From pydecker at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 21:51:42 2009
From: pydecker at gmail.com (Peter Decker)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:51:42 -0400
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c20908240849p283cb70o50f374a4f8c867b@mail.gmail.com>
References: 
	<7a9c25c20908240849p283cb70o50f374a4f8c867b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Stephen Hansen wrote:

> P.S. I have no idea why I'm pumping Dabo so much in this though I've never
> used it!

I've used in fairly regularly for about 2 years now. I haven't had to
write that ugly wxPython code for so long that every time I see
examples on their mail list I wanna barf.

Dabo is powerful, Pythonic, and strongly supported by its developers.
Check it out at http://dabodev.com

-- 

# p.d.


From samwyse at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 21:53:00 2009
From: samwyse at gmail.com (samwyse)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:53:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: best way to display photos
Message-ID: <96e9b045-d591-485e-b831-ba1462345df9@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

I have several thousand photographs that I need to quickly classify,
all by myself.  After extensive searches, I have been unable to find
anything to my liking, so desire to write something myself.  I'm
thinking about displaying a photo and waiting for keystrokes to tag
it; 'i' for interior, 'e' for exterior, etc., while hitting space or
enter will advance to the next photo.  My big question is, what's the
best way to display the photos.  I've used PIL in the past, but IIRC
it uses an external program.  Pygame is the next obvious choice, but
like PIL it requires an add-in.  That leaves Tkinter.  Has anyone used
it to display .JPG files, perhaps with rescaling to fit my screen?
How is its performance?  Is there any other possibilities that I've
missed?  Thanks.


From http  Mon Aug 24 22:01:49 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 24 Aug 2009 19:01:49 -0700
Subject: best way to display photos
References: <96e9b045-d591-485e-b831-ba1462345df9@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7x3a7gmz1u.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

samwyse  writes:
> My big question is, what's the
> best way to display the photos.  I've used PIL in the past, but IIRC
> it uses an external program.  Pygame is the next obvious choice, but
> like PIL it requires an add-in.  That leaves Tkinter.  Has anyone used
> it to display .JPG files, perhaps with rescaling to fit my screen?

I've displayed images with tkinter -- I remember there is some kind of
trick you have to do to prevent them from being gc'd prematurely but
I've forgotten the specifics.  However, for the kind of thing you're
doing, a one-off app that you don't have to impress anyone with by
making it slick, the simplest thing to do is just slam together an
HTML page and view it with a browser, with an entry field next to each
picture, and a "submit" button.  Then run a near-trivial http server
that collects the form submissions and saves them to a file.


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Mon Aug 24 22:26:40 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:26:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
References: 
	<7a9c25c20908240849p283cb70o50f374a4f8c867b@mail.gmail.com> 
	
Message-ID: <81ac68ae-c7fc-4caa-a04f-f358ffb78864@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>

On 25 Aug, 03:51, Peter Decker  wrote:

> I've used in fairly regularly for about 2 years now. I haven't had to
> write that ugly wxPython code for so long that every time I see
> examples on their mail list I wanna barf.

I prefer wxFormBuilder. GUIs should be designed visually whenever
possible.






From afriere at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Aug 24 22:29:24 2009
From: afriere at yahoo.co.uk (Asun Friere)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:29:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Web Services examples using "raw" xml?
References: 
Message-ID: <115acae5-b3cb-4879-b464-80301d817018@p36g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 25, 5:41?am, John Gordon  wrote:

>
> ? File "/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/suds/client.py", line 59
> ? ? @classmethod
> ? ? ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>

If memory serves me correctly, decorators were introduced in
python2.4.  That would account for your SyntaxError.


From rodrigodocarmo at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 22:29:57 2009
From: rodrigodocarmo at gmail.com (Rodrigo do Carmo)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:29:57 -0300
Subject: Any Softphone wrote in Python?
Message-ID: 

Hi python-community,

I would like to ask you if someone know any open source softphone wrote
entirely in Python. The thing is that I want to write a honeyphone but
starting from a softphone. Sorry if you think that I haven't "googled"
enough.

Regards,
Rodrigo.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

From mbezovnik at freenet.si  Mon Aug 24 22:30:52 2009
From: mbezovnik at freenet.si (Matjaz Bezovnik)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 04:30:52 +0200
Subject: Putting together a larger matrix from smaller matrices
Message-ID: <0si695db7bm7rfelo9iud89d8vda32176r@4ax.com>

Dear all,

I'm but a layman so do not take offence at this maybe over simple
question.

This is something which is done often in FEM methods, and the alike.

I have matrix A of 3x3 elements, and B, of the same number of
elements, 3x3. 

What would be the most obvious way to assemble a matrix which:
a11 a12 a13
a21 a22 a23
a31 a32 a33+b11 b12 b13
                      b21 b22 b23
                      b31 b32 b33

(the missing elements = zero)

(you see the pattern - if there was a third matrix C, it would
"connect" to b33 on the main diagonal)


Matjaz


From bbxx789_05ss at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 24 22:42:36 2009
From: bbxx789_05ss at yahoo.com (7stud)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:42:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: print() and unicode strings (python 3.1)
References: <4eda8137-7db9-4c39-a2c1-3477b071f7f6@x5g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<4a92b83b$0$27209$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	
	<4a92fb02$0$2582$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 24, 2:41?pm, "Martin v. L?wis"  wrote:
> > I can't figure out a way to programatically set the encoding for
> > sys.stdout. ?So where does that leave me?
>
> You should be setting the terminal encoding administratively, not
> programmatically.
>

The terminal encoding has always been utf-8.  It was not set
programmatically.

It seems to me that python 3.1's string handling is broken.
Apparently, in python 3.1 I am unable to explicitly set the encoding
of a string and print() it out with the result being human readable
text.  On the other hand, if I let python do the encoding implicitly,
python uses a codec I don't want it to.





From rylesny at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 22:48:20 2009
From: rylesny at gmail.com (ryles)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:48:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Protecting against callbacks queuing up?
References: <4a91db65$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
Message-ID: <18241686-02a5-4433-bd45-ba280d5705a1@r33g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 23, 8:14?pm, Esben von Buchwald  wrote:
> I thought that this code would do the trick, but it obviously doesn't
> help at all, and i can't understand why...
>
> ? ? ?def doCallback(self):
> ? ? ? ? ?if self.process_busy==False:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?self.process_busy=True
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?self.data_callback()
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?self.process_busy=False
>
> doCallback is defined as a callback function for the accelerometer
> instance, and data_callback does some calculations and show them on the
> display of the phone.
>
> What to do? Thanks...

As Dennis pointed out, it sounds like doCallback() is called serially.
That is, you can think of doCallback() as being called in a loop,
rather than entered multiple times simultaneously. Your 'busy' flag is
never actually checked until after it has already been reset to False.

If the data accessed by the callback as a unique copy and has a
timestamp then a simple approach which avoids multithreading would be
to have your callback ensure that any 'old' data is simply ignored.
This will allow it to quickly catch up to a 'new' event.


From r1chardj0n3s at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 23:20:19 2009
From: r1chardj0n3s at gmail.com (Richard Jones)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:20:19 +1000
Subject: Next week: the 9th PyWeek game programming challenge!
Message-ID: 

The ninth PyWeek challenge starts this weekend, running between Sunday  
30th August to Sunday 6th September (00:00UTC to 00:00UTC)

The PyWeek challenge invites entrants to write a game in one week from
scratch either as an individual or in a team. Entries must be developed
in Python, during the challenge, and must incorporate some theme chosen
at the start of the challenge.


REGISTRATION IS NOW OPEN --

Visit the challenge website to sign up, join discussions in the  
message board or read the timetable and rules:

  http://www.pyweek.org/9/


PLANNING FOR THE CHALLENGE --

Make sure you have working versions of the libraries you're going to  
use.
The rules page has a list of libraries and other resources.

Make sure you can build packages to submit as your final submission (if
you're going to use py2exe, make sure you know how to use it and that it
works).

If you don't have access to Linux, Windows or a Mac to test on, contact
friends, family or other competitors to find someone who is able to test
for you.


From max at alcyone.com  Mon Aug 24 23:20:21 2009
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 20:20:21 -0700
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: <02a2b43f$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 	<0018e1a0$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<20090823031901.GX20434@dragontoe.org>		<87fxbifzb7.fsf@golux.woodcraft.me.uk>	<20090824135648.GA20434@dragontoe.org>	
	<02a2b43f$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:14:25 -0500, Derek Martin wrote:
> 
>> Assuming I'm right about that, then the use of a leading 0 to represent
>> octal actually predates the prevalence of using 0 in dates by almost two
>> decades.  And while using leading zeros in other contexts is "familiar"
>> to me, I would certainly not consider it "common" by any means.  Thus I
>> think it's fair to say that when this syntax was selected, it was a
>> rather good choice.
> 
> Except of course to anyone familiar with mathematics in the last, oh, 
> five hundred years or so. Mathematics has used a positional system for 
> numbers for centuries now: leading zeroes have been insignificant, just 
> like trailing zeroes after the decimal point:
> 
> 9 = 09 = 009 = 9.0 = 9.00 = 0009.000 etc.

Trailing zeroes are quite important when you're indicating the 
significance of a figure.  9 is not the same as 9.0 or 9.000.

-- 
Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
  San Jose, CA, USA && 37 18 N 121 57 W && AIM/Y!M/Skype erikmaxfrancis
   If the sky should fall, hold up your hands.
    -- (a Spanish proverb)


From max at alcyone.com  Mon Aug 24 23:23:34 2009
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 20:23:34 -0700
Subject: Temat:,Re: IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename:
	in windows xp while making tarfile
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<4A928B4B.9030502@gmail.com> <4A92A57A.5010105@dejaviewphoto.com>
	
	<4ec18c68-b8b5-401e-b910-802b7662dced@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<321b8396-0806-4a1a-9a32-efbb147e6b4b@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

ryniek wrote:
> On 24 Sie, 22:34, ryniek  wrote:
>> On 24 Sie, 16:56, John Machin  wrote:
>>
>>> On Aug 25, 12:46 am, Tim Golden  wrote:
>>>> Dave Angel wrote:
>>>>> You still haven't gotten rid of those illegal colons in the filename.  
>>>>> They're not legal in Windows, as has been pointed out a couple of times
>>>>> in this thread.
>>>> Ummm.. Colons are of course legal in Windows filenames as designating
>>> That is the most inappropriate "of course" I've seen for quite a
>>> while.
>>>> the Alternate Data Streams:
>>> OK, so s/illegal/evil/
>> Ok, but how to get rid of those colons?
>> Is it necessary?
> 
> I dealt with it. Had to change 'w:bz2' into 'w|bz2'.
> 
> But now have another problem:

It's the same problem, asked and answered.  Why not read the replies of 
the people telling you what the problem is?

-- 
Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
  San Jose, CA, USA && 37 18 N 121 57 W && AIM/Y!M/Skype erikmaxfrancis
   If the sky should fall, hold up your hands.
    -- (a Spanish proverb)


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 23:37:11 2009
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 20:37:11 -0700
Subject: print() and unicode strings (python 3.1)
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4eda8137-7db9-4c39-a2c1-3477b071f7f6@x5g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<4a92b83b$0$27209$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	
	<4a92fb02$0$2582$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	
Message-ID: <7a9c25c20908242037n41dde072h7eec82c78cd8f864@mail.gmail.com>

>
> > You should be setting the terminal encoding administratively, not
> > programmatically.
> >
>
> The terminal encoding has always been utf-8.  It was not set
> programmatically.
>
> It seems to me that python 3.1's string handling is broken.
> Apparently, in python 3.1 I am unable to explicitly set the encoding
> of a string and print() it out with the result being human readable
> text.  On the other hand, if I let python do the encoding implicitly,
> python uses a codec I don't want it to.


This isn't Python's string handling-- its the streams. The string handling
is behaving precisely as it should, and you can explicitly set the encoding
of any string to anything you want (as long as the data can translate).

sys.stdout is a text stream: so has an explicit encoding. You can set your
string to any encoding, but if you try to pass it through a text-stream
which has an incompatible encoding, of course it will error out. That's the
correct behavior.

The problem seems to be that Python appears to be auto-detecting an encoding
for your terminal (and assigning it to sys.stdout) that you think is
incorrect; and it appears that this detection routine has changed (though I
don't know if its the routine itself or sys.stdout being a "byte string"
based object in 2.6 and a "unicode string" based object in 3.x that has
caused this difference in behavior-- this is probably the case, really).

How are you 'setting' your terminal encoding? Is your LC_CTYPE environment
variable set to "en_US.UTF-8"? That's how Python (on nix'ses, at least, I
believe) determines the encoding of the terminal and thus the
sys.std(out|err) streams.

If for some reason Python's detecting it wrong, the only way I know to
change it would be to:

import io, sys
sys.stdout = io.TextIOWrapper(sys.stdout.buffer, encoding='utf-8')

HTH,

--S
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From stephen.mc at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 23:37:19 2009
From: stephen.mc at gmail.com (Steve)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 20:37:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
References: 
Message-ID: 

You can also use Windows Forms with IronPython

http://www.ironpython.info/index.php/Contents#Windows_Forms


From cmpython at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 23:37:23 2009
From: cmpython at gmail.com (Che M)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 20:37:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
References: 
Message-ID: 


> I'm especially concerned about the lack of controls, the lack of
> updates (lots of controls in wxWidgets are 1.0 deadware),

I use wxPython.  No lack of controls there, and most are up to
date.  Which "lots" in wxWidgets are you thinking of?

> I need controls for business apps like access to databases, good data
> grid,

Should be fine with wxPython.

> printing reports (with or without barcodes), etc.

Maybe ReportManager? (haven't used) or other options.

-cm


From pydecker at gmail.com  Mon Aug 24 23:56:23 2009
From: pydecker at gmail.com (Peter Decker)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:56:23 -0400
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
In-Reply-To: <81ac68ae-c7fc-4caa-a04f-f358ffb78864@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<7a9c25c20908240849p283cb70o50f374a4f8c867b@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<81ac68ae-c7fc-4caa-a04f-f358ffb78864@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 10:26 PM, sturlamolden wrote:
> On 25 Aug, 03:51, Peter Decker  wrote:
>
>> I've used in fairly regularly for about 2 years now. I haven't had to
>> write that ugly wxPython code for so long that every time I see
>> examples on their mail list I wanna barf.
>
> I prefer wxFormBuilder. GUIs should be designed visually whenever
> possible.

I use the Dabo Class Designer to visually design my forms. So what's
you're point?  :)

-- 

# p.d.


From timr at probo.com  Tue Aug 25 00:02:05 2009
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:02:05 -0700
Subject: IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename: in windows
	xp while making tarfile 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Ryniek90  wrote:
>
>Sorry, but i don't know where those pipes came from  : P
>
>The proper path is "C:\\Users\\Ryniek's
>WinSe7en\\MyNewGGBackup(2009-08-23 14:59:02).tar.bz2"
>and that string literal is "\U", without any pipes  :)
>
>The truth is that script works on linux (ubuntu) but not on windows
>(neither Win7 nor WinXP).

Right, and it' not going to work as long as you have a colon (:) in the
file name.  Colons are not valid in a Windows file name.  Colons are used
to separate the drive letter and the "stream" name.  It's just that simple.

>Maybe it's good idea to use raw string for specifing those paths?

Doesn't matter.  Get rid of the colons, and your file name will work.
-- 
Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From dmw at coder.cl  Tue Aug 25 00:03:55 2009
From: dmw at coder.cl (Daniel Molina Wegener)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 00:03:55 -0400
Subject: [ANN] pyxser-1.2r --- Python-Object to XML serialization module
References: <2571343.k9db9GJWqV@coder.cl>
	<4a923e50$0$32664$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
	<2665032.o6QR52tnKS@coder.cl>
	<4a928ed7$0$32666$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <1685404.FXBiJzzPRc@coder.cl>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Stefan Behnel 
on Monday 24 August 2009 09:00
wrote in comp.lang.python:


> Daniel Molina Wegener wrote:
>> unicode objects are encoded into the
>> encoding that the XML document encoding has, and as you say, the whole
>> XML document has one encoding. There is no mixing of byte encoded strings
>> with different encodings in the outout document.
> 
> Ok, that's what I hoped anyway. It just wasn't clear from your
> description.
> 
> 
>> When the object is restored, by using pyxser.unserialize:
>> 
>> pyobj = pyxser.unserialize(obj = xmldocstr, enc = "utf-8")
> 
> But this is XML, right? What do you need to pass the encoding for at this
> point?

  The user may want a different encoding, other than utf-8, it can
be any encoding supported by libxml2.

> 
> 
>> Another issue is the fact that if you have mixed some encodings in byte
>> strings objects in your object tree, such as iso-8859-1 and utf-8, and
>> you try to serialize that object, pyxser will output to stdout the
>> serialization errors by trying to handle those mixed encodings which are
>> not regarding the document encoding.
> 
> There shouldn't be any serialisation errors (unless you try to recode byte
> strings on the way out, which is a no-no for arbitrary user input). All
> you have to do is properly escape the byte string so that it passes the
> XML encoding step.

  Yup, but if the encodings are mixed inside Python byte strings, I think
that there is no way to know which encoding are using them. This may cause
XML serialization errors, by having a different encoding that the user
have set as the document encoding.

> 
> One trick to do that is to decode the byte string as ISO-8859-1 and
> serialise the result as a normal Unicode string. Then you can re-encode
> the unicode string on input back to ISO-8859-1.
> 
> I choose ISO-8859-1 here because it has the well-defined side-effect of
> mapping byte values directly to Unicode characters with an identical code
> point value. So you do not risk any failures or data loss.

  Sure, but if there are Python byte strings (not Unicode strings), ones
encoded in big5 and others in iso-8859-1 inside the object tree, the
XML serialization would throw errors on the encoding conversion, by
setting those bytes inside the document...

> 
> Stefan

  Thanks for commenting, and sorry for the late answer. This day was
busy...

Best regards,
- -- 
 .O. | Daniel Molina Wegener   | FreeBSD & Linux
 ..O | dmw [at] coder [dot] cl | Open Standards
 OOO | http://coder.cl/        | FOSS Developer
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From nad at acm.org  Tue Aug 25 00:09:53 2009
From: nad at acm.org (Ned Deily)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:09:53 -0700
Subject: print() and unicode strings (python 3.1)
References: <4eda8137-7db9-4c39-a2c1-3477b071f7f6@x5g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<4a92b83b$0$27209$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	
	<4a92fb02$0$2582$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	
Message-ID: 

In article 
,
 7stud  wrote:

> On Aug 24, 2:41?pm, "Martin v. L?wis"  wrote:
> > > I can't figure out a way to programatically set the encoding for
> > > sys.stdout. ?So where does that leave me?
> >
> > You should be setting the terminal encoding administratively, not
> > programmatically.
> >
> 
> The terminal encoding has always been utf-8.  It was not set
> programmatically.
> 
> It seems to me that python 3.1's string handling is broken.
> Apparently, in python 3.1 I am unable to explicitly set the encoding
> of a string and print() it out with the result being human readable
> text.  On the other hand, if I let python do the encoding implicitly,
> python uses a codec I don't want it to.

If you are running on a Unix-y system, check your locale settings (LANG, 
LC.*, et al).  I think you'll likely find that your locale is really not 
UTF-8.   The following was on Python 3.1 on OS X 10.5, similar results 
on Debian Linux:

$ cat t3.py
import sys
print(sys.stdout.encoding)
s = "?"
print(s.encode("utf-8"))
print(s)

$ export LANG=en_US.UTF-8
$ python3.1 t3.py
UTF-8
b'\xe2\x82\xac'
?

$ export LANG=C
$ python3.1 t3.py
US-ASCII
b'\xe2\x82\xac'
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "t3.py", line 7, in 
    print(s)
UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character '\u20ac' in 
position 0: ordinal not in range(128)

-- 
 Ned Deily,
 nad at acm.org



From bbxx789_05ss at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 25 00:14:44 2009
From: bbxx789_05ss at yahoo.com (7stud)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:14:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: best way to display photos
References: <96e9b045-d591-485e-b831-ba1462345df9@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<7x3a7gmz1u.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: <3c6c5a60-c969-4db8-8787-fb01a174249d@p10g2000prm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 24, 8:01?pm, Paul Rubin  wrote:
> samwyse  writes:
> > My big question is, what's the
> > best way to display the photos. ?I've used PIL in the past, but IIRC
> > it uses an external program. ?Pygame is the next obvious choice, but
> > like PIL it requires an add-in. ?That leaves Tkinter. ?Has anyone used
> > it to display .JPG files, perhaps with rescaling to fit my screen?
>
> I've displayed images with tkinter -- I remember there is some kind of
> trick you have to do to prevent them from being gc'd prematurely but
> I've forgotten the specifics. ?
>

You store the images in a list or dictionary.


From gallium.arsenide at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 00:34:57 2009
From: gallium.arsenide at gmail.com (John Yeung)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:34:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: csv module and None values
References: 
Message-ID: <54b4b6f9-38d5-4a8e-8ec2-fbca4a0fe1f4@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 24, 1:30?pm, JKPeck  wrote:
> I'm trying to get the csv module (Python 2.6) to write data
> records like Excel. ?The excel dialect isn't doing it. ?The
> problem is in writing None values. ?I want them to result
> in just sequential commas - ,, but csv treats None specially,
> as the doc says,
>
> "To make it as easy as possible to interface with modules
> which implement the DB API, the value None is written as
> the empty string."
>
> I need strings to be quoted but not None values. ?Is there
> any way to get around this special None treatment?

If you need all nonempty strings to be quoted unconditionally, then
you are not writing CSV records the way Excel writes CSV records.  The
csv module is surprisingly good at behaving like Excel, and by default
writes strings with quotes only when needed (that is, when the string
itself contains commas, quotes, or newlines).

If you truly want Excel-style CSVs, just let the csv module do its
thing, as pointed out by Peter Otten.

>From the sounds of it, you have specified QUOTE_NONNUMERIC or perhaps
QUOTE_ALL as the quoting property of the dialect you are using.  If
so, and if this is really what you need except for *your* special None
treatment, then using a sentinel is in my opinion as good a way as any
to achieve that.

John


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 00:40:42 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:40:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Simple IRC library
References: <752884c5-c6fb-4974-a21a-bf3017fa4145@y4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

devaru  wrote:
> I am new to Python language. I want to capture(either in database or a
> file) the conversation in IRC.
> Please suggest me some simple IRC library or code snippet for this.

I recommend the circuits[1] library, which contains a sample irc bot
[2]. You'll want to override the message method to do something with
the data captured.

    #!/usr/bin/env python

    from circuits import Component, Debugger
    from circuits.net.sockets import TCPClient, Connect
    from circuits.net.protocols.irc import IRC, Message, User, Nick

    class Bot(Component):

        def __init__(self, host, port=6667, channel=None):
            super(Bot, self).__init__(channel=channel)
            self += TCPClient(channel=channel) + IRC(channel=channel)
            self.push(Connect(host, port), "connect")

        def connected(self, host, port):
            self.push(User("test", host, host, "Test Bot"), "USER")
            self.push(Nick("test"), "NICK")

        def numeric(self, source, target, numeric, args, message):
            if numeric == 433:
                self.push(Nick("%s_" % self("getNick")), "NICK")

        def message(self, source, target, message):
            self.push(Message(source[0], message), "PRIVMSG")

    bot = Bot("irc.freenode.net", channel="bot") + Debugger()
    bot.run()


[1]: http://pypi.python.org/pypi/circuits
[2]: http://trac.softcircuit.com.au/circuits/browser/examples/ircbot.py


From gallium.arsenide at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 00:43:57 2009
From: gallium.arsenide at gmail.com (John Yeung)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:43:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: csv module and None values
References: 
	
Message-ID: <23c02daf-dc5a-4676-8d73-9dc63791825f@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 24, 5:00?pm, Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
> If I understand you correctly the csv.writer already does
> what you want:
>
> >>> w.writerow([1,None,2])
> 1,,2
>
> just sequential commas, but that is the special treatment.
> Without it the None value would be converted to a string
> and the line would look like this one:
>
> 1,None,2

No, I think he means he is getting

>>> w.writerow([1,None,2])
1,"",2

He evidently wants to quote "all" strings, but doesn't want None to be
considered a string.

John


From denis.bilenko at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 00:51:52 2009
From: denis.bilenko at gmail.com (Denis)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:51:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Most "active" coroutine library project?
References: <64183b73-9cb0-4ce1-98d0-f47e13a818e4@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

You can also at gevent

http://pypi.python.org/pypi/gevent


On Aug 23, 10:02?pm, Phillip B Oldham 
wrote:
> I've been taking a look at the multitude of coroutine libraries
> available for Python, but from the looks of the projects they all seem
> to be rather "quiet". I'd like to pick one up to use on a current
> project but can't deduce which is the most popular/has the largest
> community.
>
> Libraries I looked at include: cogen, weightless, eventlet and
> circuits (which isn't exactly coroutine-based but it's event-driven
> model was intriguing).
>
> Firstly, are there any others I've missed? And what would the
> consensus be on the which has the most active community behind it?



From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Tue Aug 25 00:54:28 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 06:54:28 +0200
Subject: Web Services examples using "raw" xml?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4a936e84$0$31337$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>

John Gordon wrote:
> I'm developing a program that will use web services, which I have never
> used before.
> 
> There are several tutorials out there that advise you to get the WSDL
> and then call a method (such as wsdl2py) that inspects the wsdl and
> automagically generates the python classes and methods you need for
> interacting with that web service.

There are a number of tools that help in building WS clients. One is
soaplib. It's pretty easy to use and was recently ported (V0.8) to the lxml
XML library. I actually still use a 0.7.x, also fixed to work with Py2.3.

It doesn't do any code generation. Instead, you have to write up a short
code snippet that describes the WS interface. Works pretty well.


> I tried WSDL.Proxy() from the SOAPpy package and eventually end up
> with this error:
> 
> xml.parsers.expat.ExpatError: not well-formed (invalid token): line 1, column 6

Is that while parsing the WSDL file? Have you tried pushing it through an
XML parser yourself (or opening it with an XML editor) to see if it really
is XML?

Or does this happen while communicating with the remote side? (in which
case I'd trap the wire and look at the transferred XML messages)


> I tried Client() from the suds package, and got this error:
> 
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/suds/client.py", line 59
>     @classmethod
>     ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax

That's a Py2.4-ism. You can make the code backwards compatible by replacing all

	@classmethod
	def some_function():
	    ...

lines with

	def some_function():
	    ...

	some_function = classmethod(some_function)

That's how I fixed up soaplib, BTW.


> So I decided to take a step back and see if I could bypass all the fancy
> automagic methods and just create my own SOAP xml message from scratch
> and then send it to the web server.  That would work, surely.

Yes, that's a good way also. And it avoids an additional dependency on a
convoluted SOAP library.


> But I'm having a tough time finding some good examples of that, because
> all the tutorials I've found just tell you to use the aforementioned
> magic methods, which unfortunately don;t seem to be working for me.

http://effbot.org/zone/element-soap.htm

Stefan


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Tue Aug 25 01:11:01 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 07:11:01 +0200
Subject: [ANN] pyxser-1.2r --- Python-Object to XML serialization module
In-Reply-To: <1685404.FXBiJzzPRc@coder.cl>
References: <2571343.k9db9GJWqV@coder.cl>
	<4a923e50$0$32664$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
	<2665032.o6QR52tnKS@coder.cl>
	<4a928ed7$0$32666$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
	<1685404.FXBiJzzPRc@coder.cl>
Message-ID: <4a937266$0$31337$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>

Daniel Molina Wegener wrote:
> Stefan Behnel  wrote:
>> Daniel Molina Wegener wrote:
>>> When the object is restored, by using pyxser.unserialize:
>>>
>>> pyobj = pyxser.unserialize(obj = xmldocstr, enc = "utf-8")
>> But this is XML, right? What do you need to pass the encoding for at this
>> point?
> 
>   The user may want a different encoding, other than utf-8, it can
> be any encoding supported by libxml2.

I really meant what I wrote: this is XML. The encoding is well defined in
the XML declaration at the start of the document (and will default to UTF-8
if not provided). Passing it externally will allow users to override that,
which doesn't make any sense at all.


> if the encodings are mixed inside Python byte strings, I think
> that there is no way to know which encoding are using them.

Correct.

> This may cause XML serialization errors

Yes, but only if you try to recode the strings (which, as I said, is a no-no).


>> One trick to do that is to decode the byte string as ISO-8859-1 and
>> serialise the result as a normal Unicode string. Then you can re-encode
>> the unicode string on input back to ISO-8859-1.
> 
>> I choose ISO-8859-1 here because it has the well-defined side-effect of
>> mapping byte values directly to Unicode characters with an identical code
>> point value. So you do not risk any failures or data loss.
> 
>   Sure, but if there are Python byte strings (not Unicode strings), ones
> encoded in big5 and others in iso-8859-1 inside the object tree, the
> XML serialization would throw errors on the encoding conversion, by
> setting those bytes inside the document...

No, I really meant: decoding from ISO-8859-1 to Unicode, for all byte
strings, regardless of their encoding (since you can't even know if they
represent encoded text at all). So you get a unicode string that you can
serialise to the target encoding, although it may result in character
references (&#xyz;) being output. But you won't get any errors, at least.

On the way in, you get a unicode string again, which you can encode to
ISO-8859-1 to get the original byte string back.

Stefan


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Tue Aug 25 01:22:20 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 22:22:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
References: 
	<7a9c25c20908240849p283cb70o50f374a4f8c867b@mail.gmail.com> 
	
	<81ac68ae-c7fc-4caa-a04f-f358ffb78864@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On 25 Aug, 05:56, Peter Decker  wrote:

> I use the Dabo Class Designer to visually design my forms. So what's
> you're point? ?:)

Nothing, except lobbying for wxFormBuilder for anyone who still
doesn't know of it. :)



From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Tue Aug 25 01:23:18 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 07:23:18 +0200
Subject: [ANN] pyxser-1.2r --- Python-Object to XML serialization module
In-Reply-To: <4a937266$0$31337$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
References: <2571343.k9db9GJWqV@coder.cl>
	<4a923e50$0$32664$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
	<2665032.o6QR52tnKS@coder.cl>
	<4a928ed7$0$32666$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
	<1685404.FXBiJzzPRc@coder.cl>
	<4a937266$0$31337$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <4a937546$0$31332$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>

Stefan Behnel wrote:
> for all byte
> strings, regardless of their encoding (since you can't even know if they
> represent encoded text at all).

Hmm, having written that, I guess it's actually best to encode byte strings
as base64 instead. Otherwise, null bytes and other special byte values
won't pass.

I also think that if the user wants readable output for text strings, it's
reasonable to require Unicode input instead of byte strings. Handling text
in byte strings is just too error prone.

Still, you may have to sanitize text input to make sure it doesn't contain
special characters either. Take a look at the way lxml does it in the
apihelpers.pxi source file, or read the XML spec on character content.

Stefan


From mensanator at aol.com  Tue Aug 25 01:27:51 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 22:27:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
References:  
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com> 
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
	
	
	<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com> 
	
	
	
	
	<02a31f91$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<44bcb727-0885-4d4f-9c11-ca60a39b0d91@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4468c5f5-435f-48aa-a259-7ab51069d1f7@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 24, 8:21?pm, Mel  wrote:
> Mensanator wrote:
>
> [ ... ]
>
> >> If you want your data file to have values entered in hex, or oct, or even
> >> unary (1=one, 11=two, 111=three, 1111=four...) you can.
>
> > Unary? I think you'll find that Standard Positional Number
> > Systems are not defined for radix 1.
>
> It has to be tweaked. ?If the only digit you have is 0 then your numbers
> take the form
>
> 0*1 + 0*1**2 + 0*1**3 ...
>
> and every number has an infinitely long representation. ?If you cheat and
> take a 1 digit instead then it becomes workable.

Not really. If your single digit is one, you still have
an infinitely long representation only instead of every
position being zero, every position is one.

So either the only number that can be represented is 0,
or the only number that can be represented is infinity.
No amount of tweaking can fix this.

So, to use radix 1, you have to abandon the concept
of "Standard" (contains a 0) AND abandon "Positional"
(infinitely long representation). It's all in TAOCP
by Knuth if you want to get it straight.

You can have a radix 1 number system, but is meaningless
to speak of "unary" in the same context as hex, decimal,
octal & binary.

>
> ? ? ? ? Mel.



From spam at chezmarshall.freeserve.co.uk  Tue Aug 25 01:44:28 2009
From: spam at chezmarshall.freeserve.co.uk (Robert Marshall)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 06:44:28 +0100
Subject: your favorite debugging tool?
References: 
	<7xocq5vx64.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: 

On 24 Aug 2009, Paul Rubin wrote:

> Esmail  writes:
>> What is your favorite tool to help you debug your
>> code? I've been getting along with 'print' statements
>> but that is getting old and somewhat cumbersome.
> 
> Beyond print statements, I use pdb a lot.  Winpdb (www.winpdb.org) is
> even better, but is kind of cumbersome to get working.

And you can run it (pdb) within emacs - though I find a little roughness
in working out the exact interactions keeps ending up (ie the source
buffer displayed) in the wrong stack frame - afaict

Robert
-- 
La grenouille songe..dans son ch?teau d'eau
Links and things http://rmstar.blogspot.com/


From mensanator at aol.com  Tue Aug 25 02:01:30 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:01:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References:  
	<0018e1a0$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<20090823031901.GX20434@dragontoe.org> 
	
	<87fxbifzb7.fsf@golux.woodcraft.me.uk> 
	<20090824135648.GA20434@dragontoe.org>
	 
	<02a2b43f$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 24, 10:20?pm, Erik Max Francis  wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> > On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:14:25 -0500, Derek Martin wrote:
>
> >> Assuming I'm right about that, then the use of a leading 0 to represent
> >> octal actually predates the prevalence of using 0 in dates by almost two
> >> decades. ?And while using leading zeros in other contexts is "familiar"
> >> to me, I would certainly not consider it "common" by any means. ?Thus I
> >> think it's fair to say that when this syntax was selected, it was a
> >> rather good choice.
>
> > Except of course to anyone familiar with mathematics in the last, oh,
> > five hundred years or so. Mathematics has used a positional system for
> > numbers for centuries now: leading zeroes have been insignificant, just
> > like trailing zeroes after the decimal point:
>
> > 9 = 09 = 009 = 9.0 = 9.00 = 0009.000 etc.
>
> Trailing zeroes are quite important when you're indicating the
> significance of a figure. ?9 is not the same as 9.0 or 9.000.

Tell me about it. Unfortunnately, Microsoft doesn't understand
the difference between precision and significance. Makes my
job a nightmare when I have to convert ug/kg to mg/kg.

>
> --
> Erik Max Francis && m... at alcyone.com &&http://www.alcyone.com/max/
> ? San Jose, CA, USA && 37 18 N 121 57 W && AIM/Y!M/Skype erikmaxfrancis
> ? ?If the sky should fall, hold up your hands.
> ? ? -- (a Spanish proverb)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -



From hv at tbz-pariv.de  Tue Aug 25 02:40:56 2009
From: hv at tbz-pariv.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 08:40:56 +0200
Subject: best way to display photos
In-Reply-To: <96e9b045-d591-485e-b831-ba1462345df9@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <96e9b045-d591-485e-b831-ba1462345df9@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7fhfboF2ksfhiU1@mid.individual.net>

Some years ago I had the same problem.

I wrote a simple app with pygtk. You get get it from here:
   http://guettli.sourceforge.net/gthumpy/src/README.html
The next pictures get loaded in background. Switching from
one image to the next is faster then in some other apps. But
somehow it is not ready for the public. I guess I am the only
one who uses it.

Flags are symlinks in the home directory .local/share/app/gthumpy. This
means you should not move your images, otherwise the flags get lost.

I don't think it will work on ms-windows, but it could be ported.

Or you use mirage:
http://mirageiv.berlios.de/index.html

It is a pygtk image viewer. You can define shortcuts that execute user defined
commands.

  Thomas

samwyse schrieb:
> I have several thousand photographs that I need to quickly classify,
> all by myself.  After extensive searches, I have been unable to find
> anything to my liking, so desire to write something myself.  I'm
> thinking about displaying a photo and waiting for keystrokes to tag
> it; 'i' for interior, 'e' for exterior, etc., while hitting space or
> enter will advance to the next photo.  My big question is, what's the
> best way to display the photos.  I've used PIL in the past, but IIRC
> it uses an external program.  Pygame is the next obvious choice, but
> like PIL it requires an add-in.  That leaves Tkinter.  Has anyone used
> it to display .JPG files, perhaps with rescaling to fit my screen?
> How is its performance?  Is there any other possibilities that I've
> missed?  Thanks.


-- 
Thomas Guettler, http://www.thomas-guettler.de/
E-Mail: guettli (*) thomas-guettler + de


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Tue Aug 25 02:54:36 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:54:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python 2.6 still not giving memory back to the OS...
References:  
	<38581c40-b7ed-4dbf-a3af-33e1761ba7b0@r7g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> 
	<762603ba-0a4c-4504-94d9-34a8b1e3f9c3@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> 
	<4A88406C.3060609@v.loewis.de>
	
Message-ID: <64ac5a03-ebf2-4a78-8ada-9e2dc46c86ac@d9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 25, 2:08?am, Chris Withers  wrote:
> Martin v. L?wis wrote:
> > Today, there are two cases when malloc returns memory on a typical
> > Unix system (in particular, in Linux malloc):
> > a) if the malloc block block is small (below page size), it is allocated
> > ? ?from the brk heap, where it can only be returned if the last page of
> > ? ?that heap is completely free, and
> > b) if the block is large (multiple pages), it gets returned to the
> > ? ?system right away.
>
> > Case b) can only happen if the C malloc uses mmap to allocate large
> > blocks.
>
> I believe (and John will correct me if I'm wrong) that xlrd uses mmap,
> so why am I not seeing the memory being returned?

xlrd uses mmap to access the input file; this seems to have zero
correlation with "the C malloc uses mmap to allocate large blocks".


From nadia.helen.johnson at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 03:12:57 2009
From: nadia.helen.johnson at gmail.com (Nadia Johnson)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 00:12:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: elementtree
References: <3037e686-d552-4373-a822-75a43b274cca@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<4a923d8b$0$32664$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
	
Message-ID: <2b3279b4-ed91-4d46-823a-1bf89acf33fb@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 24, 7:29?pm, Dave Angel  wrote:
> Stefan Behnel wrote:
> > Hi,
>
> > elsa wrote:
>
> >> I know how to turn HTML into an ElementTree object
>
> > I don't. ;)
>
> > ElementTree doesn't have an HTML parser, so what do you use for parsing?
>
> >> but I don't know
> >> how to then view the structure of this object. Is there a method or
> >> module that you can give an ElementTree object to, and it returns some
> >> kind of graphical or printed representation of the tree? Otherwise, if
> >> you can't see you're tree's structure, how do you know what is a
> >> sensible way of iterating over the tree to access the info you need?
>
> > ElementTree has a tostring() method that returns a string. To get a pretty
> > printed representation, you can use the indent() function from this recipe:
>
> >http://effbot.org/zone/element-lib.htm#prettyprint
>
> > Stefan
>
> Perhaps the OP was referring to XHTML, which should be eligible for
> ElementTree. ?But could you tell me whether ElementTree is at all
> tolerant of malformed XML? ? Most HTML and XHTML I encounter in the wild
> is so ?buggy it's amazing it all works at all.
>
> DaveA

I used elementtidy, also available from effbot


From dirkmoors at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 03:54:34 2009
From: dirkmoors at gmail.com (gravityzoo-dmo)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 00:54:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python memory management <-> virtualized server environments
References: 
	
Message-ID: <5773f2ee-5654-4f82-82c5-7668eb419f36@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On 24 aug, 20:35, "Martin P. Hellwig" 
wrote:
> gravityzoo-dmo wrote:
> > Hello everyone,
>
> > I was wondering if anyone here has had any experience in running
> > Python in a virtualized server environment?
> > The reason I'm asking is the recent thing I noticed when running my
> > server application (written in Python + Twisted);
> > The memory of the server application seems to only grow, and not give
> > back memory space to the OS. I realize that this won't be a problem on
> > a single physical server, but I'm curious of the effect this behaviour
> > has on a virtualized environment.
> > Could anyone provide me with a little more insight please?
> > Thanks in advance!
>
> > Dirk
>
> Might help if you say which version of Python you are running, although
> I'm not a memory expert I do know there have been some changes between
> the versions.
>
> --
> MPHhttp://blog.dcuktec.com
> 'If consumed, best digested with added seasoning to own preference.'

Hi, I'm sorry, I forgot to post the version indeed.

The Python version I'm running is 2.5.2 (r252:60911, January 4 2009)
The Twisted version I'm running is 8.2.0, and I'm using the EPOLL-
Reactor (don't know if that matters)
The OS I'm running on is Debian version 2.6.26-2-686 (i686 GNU/Linux)

Is that enough info?

Best regards,
Dirk


From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Aug 25 04:03:57 2009
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 10:03:57 +0200
Subject: Putting together a larger matrix from smaller matrices
References: <0si695db7bm7rfelo9iud89d8vda32176r@4ax.com>
Message-ID: 

Matjaz Bezovnik wrote:

> This is something which is done often in FEM methods, and the alike.
> 
> I have matrix A of 3x3 elements, and B, of the same number of
> elements, 3x3.
> 
> What would be the most obvious way to assemble a matrix which:
> a11 a12 a13
> a21 a22 a23
> a31 a32 a33+b11 b12 b13
>                       b21 b22 b23
>                       b31 b32 b33
> 
> (the missing elements = zero)
> 
> (you see the pattern - if there was a third matrix C, it would
> "connect" to b33 on the main diagonal)

Unless there is a dedicated function:

partial = [...] # list of matrices of shape NxN

N = partial[0].shape[0]
width = N*len(partial)
b = numpy.zeros((width, width))

off = 0
for m in partial:
    b[off:off+N, off:off+N] = m
    off += N
print b

Peter




From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Tue Aug 25 04:09:06 2009
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 09:09:06 +0100
Subject: Python memory management <-> virtualized server environments
In-Reply-To: <5773f2ee-5654-4f82-82c5-7668eb419f36@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	<5773f2ee-5654-4f82-82c5-7668eb419f36@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3oSdnePt4Mu_AQ7XnZ2dnUVZ8j9i4p2d@bt.com>

gravityzoo-dmo wrote:
> On 24 aug, 20:35, "Martin P. Hellwig" 
> wrote:
>> gravityzoo-dmo wrote:
>>> Hello everyone,
>>> I was wondering if anyone here has had any experience in running
>>> Python in a virtualized server environment?
>>> The reason I'm asking is the recent thing I noticed when running my
>>> server application (written in Python + Twisted);
>>> The memory of the server application seems to only grow, and not give
>>> back memory space to the OS. I realize that this won't be a problem on
>>> a single physical server, but I'm curious of the effect this behaviour
>>> has on a virtualized environment.
>>> Could anyone provide me with a little more insight please?
>>> Thanks in advance!
>>> Dirk
>> Might help if you say which version of Python you are running, although
>> I'm not a memory expert I do know there have been some changes between
>> the versions.
>>
>> --
>> MPHhttp://blog.dcuktec.com
>> 'If consumed, best digested with added seasoning to own preference.'
> 
> Hi, I'm sorry, I forgot to post the version indeed.
> 
> The Python version I'm running is 2.5.2 (r252:60911, January 4 2009)
> The Twisted version I'm running is 8.2.0, and I'm using the EPOLL-
> Reactor (don't know if that matters)
> The OS I'm running on is Debian version 2.6.26-2-686 (i686 GNU/Linux)
> 
> Is that enough info?
> 
> Best regards,
> Dirk


According to Python 2.6 release document:
"To reduce memory usage, the garbage collector will now clear internal 
free lists when garbage-collecting the highest generation of objects. 
This may return memory to the operating system sooner."

Which might apply to your situation, but to be really sure you can only 
try it out :-)

-- 
MPH
http://blog.dcuktec.com
'If consumed, best digested with added seasoning to own preference.'


From pierre.gaillard at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 04:12:51 2009
From: pierre.gaillard at gmail.com (Pierre)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 01:12:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: matplotlib / backend
Message-ID: <5c24850b-462f-4d2e-9d75-e9317c093e5e@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I'm to plot some results but it doesn't work.
I got this error :

/usr/local/libre_rep/python-2.6.1/RHEL_5__x86_64/lib/python2.6/site-
packages/matplotlib/backends/__init__.py:41: UserWarning:
Your currently selected backend, 'agg' does not support show().
Please select a GUI backend in your matplotlibrc file ('/usr/local/
libre_rep/python-2.6.1/RHEL_5__x86_64/lib/python2.6/site-packages/
matplotlib/mpldata/matplotlibrc')
or with matplotlib.use()

Any idea to fix it ?

Thanks


From james.harris.1 at googlemail.com  Tue Aug 25 04:22:29 2009
From: james.harris.1 at googlemail.com (James Harris)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 01:22:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
References:  
	
	 
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com> 
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
	
	
	<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com> 
	
	
	
	
	<02a31f91$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <68540205-9970-41a2-b0b0-7b66a9865c9b@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>

On 25 Aug, 01:25, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:

> On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:23:06 -0700, James Harris wrote:

> > Sure but while I wouldn't normally want to type something as obscure as
> > 32"rst" into a file of data I might want to type 0xff00 or similar. That
> > is far clearer than 65280 in some cases.
>
> > My point was that int('ff00', 16) is OK for the programmer but cannot be
> > used generally as it includes a function call.
>
> No, it's the other way around. If you have *data*, whether entered at run
> time by the user or read from a file, you can easily pass it to a
> function to convert to an int. (In fact you have to do this anyway,
> because the data will be a string and you need an int.)
>
> If you want your data file to have values entered in hex, or oct, or even

You are looking at this the other way round from me and I'll explain
why I think this is important. I'm not talking about the *programmer*
prescribing how the user should enter the data but the *user* being
able to choose to prepare the data in a certain format - the format
which makes sense for the data being entered. Your way only works if
those fields in every row have the same format. That may be the case
sometimes but is not general.


> unary (1=one, 11=two, 111=three, 1111=four...) you can. There's no need
> to have the user enter int('ff00', 16) to get hex, just have them enter
> ff00.
>
> But when writing *code*, you want syntax which will accept integers in
> the most common bases (decimal, a distant second hex, an even more
> distant third octal, and way out on the horizon binary) without the
> runtime cost of a function call.

Be careful! When designing a language feature don't be too ready to
*tell* the users of that language what restrictions they want. Just
because the designer wants features with a certain frequency does not
mean that all users will have the same priorities. (If it is
impossible or unreasonable to support a feature then by all means
don't support it. But don't decide up-front before examining the
options that something in not personally appealing.)

James


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Tue Aug 25 04:28:11 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 10:28:11 +0200
Subject: Protecting against callbacks queuing up?
In-Reply-To: <4a92b290$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
References: <4a91db65$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
	
	<4a92b290$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
Message-ID: <200908251028.12047.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Monday 24 August 2009 17:32:23 Esben von Buchwald wrote:
> Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:

8< -------------- some stuff about an "after" call --------------------------
>
> I'm new to python, what is an after function and an after call? Couldn't
> find excact answer on google...? Do you have a link to some docs?

The after call is common in GUI stuff.

Here is a link to nice Tkinter manual - it is the first link if you google 
for:   tkinter "new mexico tech" shipman

www.nmt.edu/tcc/help/pubs/tkinter/

What after does is that it is like a normal call, except that it is not done 
immediately, but after some settable time, hence the "after".

- Hendrik


From thebiggestbangtheory at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 04:36:08 2009
From: thebiggestbangtheory at gmail.com (nickname)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 01:36:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: os.popen output different from native shell output
Message-ID: <8119e546-b54d-4e72-b8b7-d1f3d104670f@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

Hi all,
       I am a relative newbie to python, I am using os.popen to run an
ls command. The output that I get using the read() function is
different in look and feel from when I run the ls command natively
from the shell (not via python). I display the ouput via python by
using the print function on the variable that accepts the os.popen
().read() function.

For example:

output from native shell (as seen on the bash shell)

file1 file2 dir1(highlighted in blue color)
file3longnamewhichwillcausenextfiletoappearonnextline

file 4

output from python (as seen on the bash shell)

file1
file2
dir1 (no blue color)
file3longnamewhichwillcausenextfiletoappearonnextline
file4

Is there an easy way to "mirror" the output. When python displays the
output, how can it tell the bash shell that some of the entries are
directories and they should appear blue on the bash shell, and that
everything should not be appearing on 1 column only.

Thanks for any pointers.


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Tue Aug 25 04:52:55 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 01:52:55 -0700
Subject: os.popen output different from native shell output
In-Reply-To: <8119e546-b54d-4e72-b8b7-d1f3d104670f@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
References: <8119e546-b54d-4e72-b8b7-d1f3d104670f@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908250152y4e6a7fb8ke20f9aae28193b40@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 1:36 AM, nickname wrote:
> Hi all,
> ? ? ? I am a relative newbie to python, I am using os.popen to run an
> ls command. The output that I get using the read() function is
> different in look and feel from when I run the ls command natively
> from the shell (not via python). I display the ouput via python by
> using the print function on the variable that accepts the os.popen
> ().read() function.
>
> For example:
>
> output from native shell (as seen on the bash shell)
>
> file1 file2 dir1(highlighted in blue color)
> file3longnamewhichwillcausenextfiletoappearonnextline
>
> file 4
>
> output from python (as seen on the bash shell)
>
> file1
> file2
> dir1 (no blue color)
> file3longnamewhichwillcausenextfiletoappearonnextline
> file4
>
> Is there an easy way to "mirror" the output. When python displays the
> output, how can it tell the bash shell that some of the entries are
> directories and they should appear blue on the bash shell, and that
> everything should not be appearing on 1 column only.

I would assume the difference is caused by `ls` changing behavior (for
example, enabling/disabling colorization) based on whether its output
is going to a terminal or a pipe.

Is there a reason you can't use os.listdir() instead of running ls?:
http://docs.python.org/library/os.html#os.listdir

For the colorization, google for "ANSI color escape sequences"

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 05:08:31 2009
From: subhakolkata1234 at gmail.com (SUBHABRATA BANERJEE)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:38:31 +0530
Subject: Questions on XML
In-Reply-To: <200908231148.51151.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com>
References: <51b22a8c-54de-484e-9b3c-9baeb4498f69@q40g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	
	<97c638a50908221327ge57818ahc1bb4c9ad3eb186b@mail.gmail.com>
	<200908231148.51151.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <97c638a50908250208n3a81007n92b7507ca8515bf2@mail.gmail.com>

I was trying this. Looks perfectly fine. There must be something really
wrong. If you can reinstall Python 2.5.
>>> a1=raw_input("String")
String??

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 12:18 AM, Rami Chowdhury
wrote:

> My problem is with IDLE on Windows. When I try to type Bangla directly into
> the IDLE window I only get '?' characters, and repr() fails with a
> UnicodeDecodeError. I expect, though, that that's because of my specific
> installation / Windows issues, as it works fine on Fedora 10...
>
> > I do not get any problem in processing Hindi or Bangla or any Indian
> > language in Python it is perfectly fine.
> I have no problems either -- my issues are with IDLE, and only on Windows.
>
> ----
> Rami Chowdhury
> "Strangers are just friends who haven't had enough gin." -- Howdle's Saying
> 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)
>
>  On Saturday 22 August 2009 13:27:02 SUBHABRATA BANERJEE wrote:
> > Should I help you? If you answered my questions I am differing from your
> > view I do not get any problem in processing Hindi or Bangla or any Indian
> > language in Python it is perfectly fine.
> > Best Regards,
> > Subhabrata.
> >
> > On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 9:48 AM, Rami Chowdhury
> wrote:
> > > I am using primarily UTF-8 based strings, like Hindi or Bengali. Can I
> > >
> > >> use Python to help me in this regard?
> > >
> > > I can say from experience that Python on Windows (at least, Python 2.5
> on
> > > 32-bit Vista) works perfectly well with UTF-8 files containing Bangla.
> I
> > > have had trouble with working with the data in IDLE, however, which
> seems
> > > to prefer ASCII by default.
> > >
> > > -------------
> > > Rami Chowdhury
> > > "Never assume malice when stupidity will suffice." -- Hanlon's Razor
> > > 408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Aug 21, 2009, at 19:15 , joy99 wrote:
> > >
> > >   Dear Group,
> > >
> > >> I like to convert some simple strings of natural language to XML. May
> > >> I use Python to do this? If any one can help me, on this.
> > >>
> > >> I am using primarily UTF-8 based strings, like Hindi or Bengali. Can I
> > >> use Python to help me in this regard?
> > >>
> > >> How can I learn good XML aspects of Python. If any one can kindly name
> > >> me a book or URL.
> > >>
> > >> I am using Python2.6 on Windows XP with IDLE as GUI.
> > >>
> > >> Best Regards,
> > >> Subhabrata.
> > >> --
> > >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
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From baloand at googlemail.com  Tue Aug 25 05:52:45 2009
From: baloand at googlemail.com (baloan)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 02:52:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: matplotlib / backend
References: <5c24850b-462f-4d2e-9d75-e9317c093e5e@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5480dbe7-d9cc-44fb-a6cb-b866c01cd545@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 25, 10:12?am, Pierre  wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm to plot some results but it doesn't work.
> I got this error :
>
> /usr/local/libre_rep/python-2.6.1/RHEL_5__x86_64/lib/python2.6/site-
> packages/matplotlib/backends/__init__.py:41: UserWarning:
> Your currently selected backend, 'agg' does not support show().
> Please select a GUI backend in your matplotlibrc file ('/usr/local/
> libre_rep/python-2.6.1/RHEL_5__x86_64/lib/python2.6/site-packages/
> matplotlib/mpldata/matplotlibrc')
> or with matplotlib.use()
>
> Any idea to fix it ?
>
> Thanks

Try:

import matplotlib
matplotlib.use('TkAgg')

before coding anything else

from the examples section of the matplotlib documentation
http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/examples/user_interfaces/embedding_in_tk.html


From hv at tbz-pariv.de  Tue Aug 25 06:18:59 2009
From: hv at tbz-pariv.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 12:18:59 +0200
Subject: os.popen output different from native shell output
In-Reply-To: <8119e546-b54d-4e72-b8b7-d1f3d104670f@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
References: <8119e546-b54d-4e72-b8b7-d1f3d104670f@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7fhs4jF2b5i5pU1@mid.individual.net>

hi,

you get the popen output like this:

user at unixhost> ls | cat


nickname schrieb:
> Hi all,
>        I am a relative newbie to python, I am using os.popen to run an
> ls command. The output that I get using the read() function is
> different in look and feel from when I run the ls command natively
> from the shell (not via python). I display the ouput via python by
> using the print function on the variable that accepts the os.popen
> ().read() function.
...

 Thomas


-- 
Thomas Guettler, http://www.thomas-guettler.de/
E-Mail: guettli (*) thomas-guettler + de


From michele.simionato at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 06:28:44 2009
From: michele.simionato at gmail.com (Michele Simionato)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 03:28:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: your favorite debugging tool?
References: 
Message-ID: <57d65219-8134-4c2e-9739-825a5ef450d0@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 22, 4:25?pm, Esmail  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> What is your favorite tool to help you debug your
> code?

The times when I would just use 'print' are long past. Nowadays I
spend lots of my time
with code written by others than myself. I use pdb all the time, and
now also ipdb
(ipdb is very cool if you are used to ipython).

  M.S.


From bbxx789_05ss at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 25 06:41:54 2009
From: bbxx789_05ss at yahoo.com (7stud)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 03:41:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: print() and unicode strings (python 3.1)
References: <4eda8137-7db9-4c39-a2c1-3477b071f7f6@x5g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<4a92b83b$0$27209$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	
	<4a92fb02$0$2582$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	
	
Message-ID: <84154e6e-c425-4b71-89e3-7d2877a19418@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 24, 10:09 pm, Ned Deily  wrote:
> In article
> ,
>
>
>
>  7stud  wrote:
> > On Aug 24, 2:41 pm, "Martin v. L?wis"  wrote:
> > > > I can't figure out a way to programatically set the encoding for
> > > > sys.stdout.  So where does that leave me?
>
> > > You should be setting the terminal encoding administratively, not
> > > programmatically.
>
> > The terminal encoding has always been utf-8.  It was not set
> > programmatically.
>
> > It seems to me that python 3.1's string handling is broken.
> > Apparently, in python 3.1 I am unable to explicitly set the encoding
> > of a string and print() it out with the result being human readable
> > text.  On the other hand, if I let python do the encoding implicitly,
> > python uses a codec I don't want it to.
>
> If you are running on a Unix-y system, check your locale settings (LANG,
> LC.*, et al).  I think you'll likely find that your locale is really not
> UTF-8.   The following was on Python 3.1 on OS X 10.5, similar results
> on Debian Linux:
>
> $ cat t3.py
> import sys
> print(sys.stdout.encoding)
> s = "?"
> print(s.encode("utf-8"))
> print(s)
>
> $ export LANG=en_US.UTF-8
> $ python3.1 t3.py
> UTF-8
> b'\xe2\x82\xac'
> ?
>
> $ export LANG=C
> $ python3.1 t3.py
> US-ASCII
> b'\xe2\x82\xac'
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "t3.py", line 7, in 
>     print(s)
> UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character '\u20ac' in
> position 0: ordinal not in range(128)
>
> --
>  Ned Deily,
>  n... at acm.org

Hi,

Thanks for the response.  My OS is mac osx 10.4.11.  I'm not really
sure how to check my locale settings.  Here is some stuff I tried:

$ echo $LANG

$ echo $LC_ALL

$ echo $LC_CTYPE

$ locale
LANG=
LC_COLLATE="C"
LC_CTYPE="C"
LC_MESSAGES="C"
LC_MONETARY="C"
LC_NUMERIC="C"
LC_TIME="C"
LC_ALL="C"

$man locale
...
...
...

ENVIRONMENT:
LANG
Used as a substitute for any unset LC_* variable.  If LANG is unset it
will act as if set to "C".  If any of LANG or LC_* are set to invalide
values locale acts as if they are all unset.

===========

As in your last example, my 'C' settings mean that an ascii codec is
used somewhere to encode() the unicode string.

--
The locale C or POSIX is a portable locale; its LC_CTYPE part
corresponds to the 7-bit ASCII character set.

http://linux.about.com/library/cmd/blcmdl3_setlocale.htm
--


Is this the way it works:


1) python sets the codec for sys.stdout to the LANG environment
variable.
2) It doesn't matter that my terminal's encoding is set to utf-8
because output has to pass through sys.stdout first.

So:

a) My terminal's environment is telling python(and all other programs
running in the terminal) that output sent to sys.stdout must be
encoded in ascii.
b) The solution is to set a LANG environment variable.


Why does echoing $LC_ALL or $LC_CTYPE just give me a blank string?


Previously, I've set environment variables that I want to be
permanent, e.g PATH, in ~/.bash_profile, so I did this:

~/.bash_profile:
--------------
...
...
LANG="en_US.UTF-8"
export LANG

and now python 3.1 acts like I expect it to:

-------
import locale
import sys

print(locale.getlocale(locale.LC_CTYPE))
print(sys.stdout.encoding)


s = "?"
print(s)

print(s.encode("utf-8"))

--output:--
('en_US', 'UTF8')
UTF-8
?
b'\xe2\x82\xac'
----------

In conclusion, as far as I can tell, if your python 3.1 program tries
to output a unicode string, and the unicode string cannot be encoded
by the codec specified in the user's LANG environment variable**, then
the user will get an encode error. Just because the programmer's
system can handle the output doesn't mean that another user's system
can.  I guess that's the way it goes: if a user's environment is
telling all programs that it only wants ascii output to go to the
screen(sys.stdout), you can't(or shouldn't) do anything about it.

**Or if the LANG environment variable is not present, then the codec
corresponding to the locale settings(C' corresponds to ascii).

some good locale info:
http://www.chemie.fu-berlin.de/chemnet/use/info/libc/libc_19.html


From bbarbero at inescporto.pt  Tue Aug 25 06:57:07 2009
From: bbarbero at inescporto.pt (bbarbero at inescporto.pt)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 12:57:07 +0200
Subject: unexpected token `;'
Message-ID: <20090825125707.96162cpxx4xdaglf@horde.inescporto.pt>

Hello to all!

I am struggling with a script in python for a while now, and decided  
to look for some help. I am running a code that takes commands from  
Marsyas(open source for Music analysis).

#!/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/bin/python2.6
#!/bin/bashimport math
import re
import numpy
import string
import os.path
import sys
import commands



l =  
"/Users/bmorab/Audio_Projecto/Data/Palco/PP3_44_distance_matrix/PP3_44_5.mf"

Col = open(l, 'r')
colist= []
songlist = []
for line in Col:
         #print line
         song = os.path.split(line)[1]
         #print song
         songlist.append(song)
         colist.append(line)



cmd = "sfplay " + colist[2]
print cmd
fileout = commands.getoutput(cmd)
print fileout



It basically reads song files from the .mf file, stores them in a list  
and play  one of the songs from the list. It does work with some music  
but mostly it gives an error like this:

sfplay  
/Volumes/HAL/Datasets/Audio/PalcoPrincipal/mp3_resampled_44100/10005.mp3

sh: -c: line 1: syntax error near unexpected token `;'
sh: -c: line 1: `; } 2>&1'


Ive been searching for the meaning of the error, and It really depends  
on the script, but I would conclude that I am missing a punctuation  
mark??

Thank you very much for taking your time reading my request.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Regards,
Bea


----------------------------------------------------------------
This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.


From mmelchert03 at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 25 07:24:37 2009
From: mmelchert03 at yahoo.com (mmelchert)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:24:37 +0200
Subject: unexpected token `;'
References: 
Message-ID: <4a93c9f6$0$2370$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

bbarbero at inescporto.pt wrote:

> Hello to all!
> 
> I am struggling with a script in python for a while now, and decided
> to look for some help. I am running a code that takes commands from
> Marsyas(open source for Music analysis).
> 
> #!/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/bin/python2.6
> #!/bin/bashimport math  <<==
> import re
> import numpy

have a close look at the <<== line: I think you wanted it to read
import math rather than #!/bin/bashimport math?



From aotto1968 at users.sourceforge.net  Tue Aug 25 07:24:37 2009
From: aotto1968 at users.sourceforge.net (Andreas Otto)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:24:37 +0200
Subject: problem to write a THREAD enabled python extension
References: 
	<4a92af50$0$32675$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: 

Stefan Behnel wrote:

> 
> You forgot to create a thread state for the new thread. See the
> PyThreadState_New() function.
> 

this does not really solve the problem even if the original error does no 
happen anymore ...

but a bucket of other error happen >>> sometimes <<< and this mean
that time and (I call it so) internal state stuff has influence on the 
problem and create errors like:

 1. http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-January/242740.html
 2. various PyThreadState_Get -> PyThreadState_Get: no current thread
 3. sometimes ThreadState has NULL sometimes not and NULL create an
     CORE for "tstate" pointer access operations
 4. ... a lot of other problems too

all problems together I come to the conclusion:

 1. I spend ~ 1week for a job done in C# or java in a day - and have no
     usable solution
 2. python need a couple of 100+ C API function for the same job
     java need 10+
 3. the design on the C-API is amateurish -> significant parts are
     implemented as GLOBAL variables
 4. the thread support is not more than a joke -> go to 3
 5. after pay a lot of effort to get something working the final solution 
     is significant slower than C# or JAVA
 6. you can not truss any-thing in python because you never know
     if under some circumstance you get a CORE 
 
the resulting PYTHON code is usable but not significant more readable
as JAVA, C* or even C++ code


mfg

  aotto1968



From feliphil at gmx.net  Tue Aug 25 07:24:39 2009
From: feliphil at gmx.net (Wolfgang Keller)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:24:39 +0200
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
References: 
Message-ID: <20090825132439.d6cb18ca.feliphil@gmx.net>

> I need controls for business apps like access to databases, good data
> grid, printing reports (with or without barcodes), etc.

The area of _desktop_ database application development indeed looks like a vast and very hostile desert in the Python landscape.

The only framework that seems to be worth trying is Dabo. Unfortunately there's little documentation, and that's mostly outdated.

There's also Kiwi, but that's even less well documented.

And GNU Enterprise essentially seems to be dead.

Sincerely,

Wolfgang

-- 
NO "Courtesy Copies" PLEASE!


From deets at nospam.web.de  Tue Aug 25 07:25:04 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:25:04 +0200
Subject: unexpected token `;'
References: 
Message-ID: <7fi00gF2kr205U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

bbarbero at inescporto.pt wrote:

> Hello to all!
> 
> I am struggling with a script in python for a while now, and decided
> to look for some help. I am running a code that takes commands from
> Marsyas(open source for Music analysis).
> 
> #!/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/bin/python2.6
> #!/bin/bashimport math

This is bogus. Replace it with

  #!/usr/bin/python

and put the "import math" on the next line.

Diez


From markonlinux at internode.on.net  Tue Aug 25 07:26:40 2009
From: markonlinux at internode.on.net (Mark)
Date: 25 Aug 2009 11:26:40 GMT
Subject: can python make web applications?
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <02a3ba7c$0$18215$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:45:17 +0100, Goke Aruna wrote:

> A lot check this fantastic open source application,
> http://www.openerp.com, all done is python.

That does look impressive. Is that Django or Turbogears?


-- 
Mark


From gslindstrom at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 07:28:40 2009
From: gslindstrom at gmail.com (Greg Lindstrom)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 06:28:40 -0500
Subject: PyCon 2010 - Call for Tutorials
Message-ID: 

The period to submit proposals for PyCon 2010 in Atlanta, Georgia (USA) is
now open and will close on October 18.  Tutorials are 3-hour long classes on
a specific Python technique, package or technology and are taught by members
of the Python community.  If you have knowledge in a particular topic and
would like to be considered to teach a class we invite you to submit a
proposal outlining the material you would like to cover.  Once we receive
your proposal, we will "score" it based on content and then select 24
classes (subject to change) for presentation.

Class instructors will be paid $1000.00 per class.  If a class has more than
one teacher, the fee will be split between them.

Interested?  Click on over to the Tutorial Proposal
Pageto see more
details, examples of classes that have been requested in the
past (though you are free to submit a proposal on anything Python), an
example proposal and an empty template to help you prepare your own
proposal.  Once complete, email your proposal to
pycon-tutorials at python.orgso we can get it out to the evaluation
committee and get you on your way to
being a PyCon

Questions?  You can contact us at the PyCon Email
Listand we will get back with you.

We look forward to hearing from you!

Greg Lindstrom
Tutorial Coordinator
PyCon 2010 (Atlanta)
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From piet at cs.uu.nl  Tue Aug 25 07:33:02 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:33:02 +0200
Subject: basic thread question
References: <20090818201015.GP20434@dragontoe.org>
	
	<4a922086$0$1619$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	
	
	
	<4224e772-5b67-4eea-9bdf-a7d2bf7cc128@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	<864e2d5f-0855-4f35-a78c-b09054e75f0d@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

>>>>> sturlamolden  (s) wrote:

>s> On 25 Aug, 01:26, Piet van Oostrum  wrote:
>>> That's because it doesn't use copy-on-write. Thereby losing most of its
>>> advantages. I don't know SUA, but I have vaguely heard about it.

>s> SUA is a version of UNIX hidden inside Windows Vista and Windows 7
>s> (except in Home and Home Premium), but very few seem to know of it.
>s> SUA (Subsystem for Unix based Applications) is formerly known as
>s> Interix, which is a certified version of UNIX based on OpenBSD. If you
>s> go to http://www.interopsystems.com (a website run by Interop Systems
>s> Inc., a company owned by Microsoft), you will find a lot of common
>s> unix tools prebuilt for SUA, including Python 2.6.2.

>s> The NT-kernel supports copy-on-write fork with a special system call
>s> (ZwCreateProcess in ntdll.dll), which is what SUA's implementation of
>s> fork() uses.

I have heard about that also, but is there a Python implementation that
uses this? (Just curious, I am not using Windows.)
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From nobody at nowhere.com  Tue Aug 25 07:34:59 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 12:34:59 +0100
Subject: web frameworks that support Python 3
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 23 Aug 2009 16:32:09 -0400, Albert Hopkins wrote:

> What's different about Python 3 is that there is only unicode strings,
> whereas Python 2 has a string type and a unicode type.

Python 2 has "str" (char) and "unicode" (wchar) types.

Python 3 has "bytes" (char) and "str" (wchar) types.

The main difference is that Python 3 uses unicode "by default", i.e.
string literals are unicode rather than byte strings, variables
such as sys.argv and os.environ contain unicode strings, etc.

There are other differences, e.g.:

+ Passing a "bytes" object where "str" is expected will raise an exception
rather than using an automatic conversion
+ Subscripting a "bytes" object returns an integer between 0 and 255
+ upper(), isalpha(), etc assume ASCII rather than the system encoding



From nobody at nowhere.com  Tue Aug 25 07:47:54 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 12:47:54 +0100
Subject: sgmllib.py
References: 
	<4a923c57$0$32664$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:08:07 +0200, Stefan Behnel wrote:

> But note that sgmllib is a particularly cumbersome way to deal with HTML.

Mostly because it only provides a tokeniser, not a parser. Whoever wrote
it doesn't appear to understand the difference.



From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Tue Aug 25 07:50:59 2009
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 07:50:59 -0400
Subject: unexpected token `;'
In-Reply-To: <7fi00gF2kr205U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: 
	<7fi00gF2kr205U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 7:25 AM, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

>
> > Hello to all!
> >
> > I am struggling with a script in python for a while now, and decided
> > to look for some help. I am running a code that takes commands from
> > Marsyas(open source for Music analysis).
> >
> > #!/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.6/bin/python2.6
> > #!/bin/bashimport math
>
> This is bogus. Replace it with
>
>  #!/usr/bin/python
>
> and put the "import math" on the next line.
>


> Diez


It's not bogus. That is perfectly legitimate for using the user-installed
Python2.6 on OS X. /usr/bin/ is reserved for system programs on that
platform so it will always point to the system python install, which is
2.5.1 on Leopard and 2.3.5 on Tiger. That being said, the #!/bin/bash line
is what's screwing it up.
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From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Aug 25 07:51:24 2009
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:51:24 +0200
Subject: unexpected token `;'
References: 
Message-ID: 

bbarbero at inescporto.pt wrote:

> I am struggling with a script in python for a while now, and decided
> to look for some help. I am running a code that takes commands from
> Marsyas(open source for Music analysis).

> cmd = "sfplay " + colist[2]
> print cmd
> fileout = commands.getoutput(cmd)

You have to ensure here that characters that have a special meaning for the 
shell are escaped correctly. The best approach is probably to use subprocess 
instead of commands:

fileoutput = subprocess.Popen(["sfplay", colist[2]],
    stdout=subprocess.PIPE, 
    stderr=subprocess.STDOUT).communicate()[0]                                                        

Peter



From ebonak at hotmail.com  Tue Aug 25 07:55:22 2009
From: ebonak at hotmail.com (Esmail)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 07:55:22 -0400
Subject: your favorite debugging tool?
In-Reply-To: <7xocq5vx64.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: 
	<7xocq5vx64.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: 

Paul Rubin wrote:
> Esmail  writes:
>> What is your favorite tool to help you debug your
>> code? I've been getting along with 'print' statements
>> but that is getting old and somewhat cumbersome.
> 
> Beyond print statements, I use pdb a lot.  Winpdb (www.winpdb.org) is
> even better, but is kind of cumbersome to get working.

Hi,

2 quick questions.

Re pdb, if you have a 'pointer' (ie reference) to an object, is there
an easy way to dump out its contents, ie all of its members short of
writing a method that does that and then calling it?

Anyone know what is going on with the winpdb site? I haven't been able to
get to it in the last few days.

Thanks,
Esmail



From ebonak at hotmail.com  Tue Aug 25 07:55:56 2009
From: ebonak at hotmail.com (Esmail)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 07:55:56 -0400
Subject: your favorite debugging tool?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<7xocq5vx64.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Robert Marshall wrote:
> On 24 Aug 2009, Paul Rubin wrote:
> 
>> Esmail  writes:
>>> What is your favorite tool to help you debug your
>>> code? I've been getting along with 'print' statements
>>> but that is getting old and somewhat cumbersome.
>> Beyond print statements, I use pdb a lot.  Winpdb (www.winpdb.org) is
>> even better, but is kind of cumbersome to get working.
> 
> And you can run it (pdb) within emacs - though I find a little roughness
> in working out the exact interactions keeps ending up (ie the source
> buffer displayed) in the wrong stack frame - afaict

Thanks Robert, I'll have to give that a try.

Esmail



From ebonak at hotmail.com  Tue Aug 25 07:57:26 2009
From: ebonak at hotmail.com (Esmail)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 07:57:26 -0400
Subject: your favorite debugging tool?
In-Reply-To: <57d65219-8134-4c2e-9739-825a5ef450d0@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<57d65219-8134-4c2e-9739-825a5ef450d0@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Michele Simionato wrote:
> On Aug 22, 4:25 pm, Esmail  wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> What is your favorite tool to help you debug your
>> code?
> 
> The times when I would just use 'print' are long past. Nowadays I
> spend lots of my time
> with code written by others than myself. I use pdb all the time, and
> now also ipdb
> (ipdb is very cool if you are used to ipython).

Never heard of ipdb, I'll have to check it out.

Thanks,
Esmail



From dmw at coder.cl  Tue Aug 25 08:08:02 2009
From: dmw at coder.cl (Daniel Molina Wegener)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 08:08:02 -0400
Subject: [ANN] pyxser-1.2r --- Python-Object to XML serialization module
References: <2571343.k9db9GJWqV@coder.cl>
	<4a923e50$0$32664$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
	<2665032.o6QR52tnKS@coder.cl>
	<4a928ed7$0$32666$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
	<1685404.FXBiJzzPRc@coder.cl>
	<4a937266$0$31337$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
	<4a937546$0$31332$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <1731852.i11Z6b9PKs@coder.cl>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Stefan Behnel 
on Tuesday 25 August 2009 01:23
wrote in comp.lang.python:


> Stefan Behnel wrote:
>> for all byte
>> strings, regardless of their encoding (since you can't even know if they
>> represent encoded text at all).
> 
> Hmm, having written that, I guess it's actually best to encode byte
> strings as base64 instead. Otherwise, null bytes and other special byte
> values won't pass.

  Sure, base64 is a good option for byte string input.

> 
> I also think that if the user wants readable output for text strings, it's
> reasonable to require Unicode input instead of byte strings. Handling text
> in byte strings is just too error prone.
> 
> Still, you may have to sanitize text input to make sure it doesn't contain
> special characters either. Take a look at the way lxml does it in the
> apihelpers.pxi source file, or read the XML spec on character content.

  Thanks, I will look for that. I must to do a better implementation on
handling byte strings, since would be many cases on where encoded strings
are mixed. For example different database inputs with different
encodings --- if those byte strings are not readed as Unicode strings.

  Both sanitizing and base64 encoding are good options, and also, both are
readable from other platforms. The problem with later implementations of
pyxser was that it was using *RawUnicodeEscape* which is not readable from
other platforms.

> 
> Stefan

Best regards,
- -- 
 .O. | Daniel Molina Wegener   | FreeBSD & Linux
 ..O | dmw [at] coder [dot] cl | Open Standards
 OOO | http://coder.cl/        | FOSS Developer
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From walterbyrd at iname.com  Tue Aug 25 08:28:31 2009
From: walterbyrd at iname.com (walterbyrd)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 05:28:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Would there be work for a sysadmin who specializes in python?
Message-ID: 

If I took the time to really learn to use python for sysadmin work,
would I be able to find jobs, or even contract jobs?

>From what I am seeing on the job boards etc., I would have to say no.
It looks to me as though I could possibly do that with perl, but not
python.

Of course, I could be missing something. Job board ads can be
deceptive.


From ryniek90 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 08:29:27 2009
From: ryniek90 at gmail.com (ryniek)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 05:29:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Temat:, Re: IOError: [Errno 22] invalid mode ('wb') or filename: 
	in windows xp while making tarfile
References:  
	<4A928B4B.9030502@gmail.com> <4A92A57A.5010105@dejaviewphoto.com> 
	
	<4ec18c68-b8b5-401e-b910-802b7662dced@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<321b8396-0806-4a1a-9a32-efbb147e6b4b@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> 
	 
	
Message-ID: <62ee06b6-4d8b-4033-828a-bad0bd6ea329@r42g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On 25 Sie, 07:33, Dennis Lee Bieber  wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:23:41 -0700 (PDT), ryniek 
> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>
> > C:\Users\Ryniek's WinSe7en\Documents\My Dropbox\Aplikacje
> > \Moje_aplikacje\Pythonowe_aplikacje\Skrypty>python ba
> > ckuper.py -f E:\APLIKACJE\nowegg.exe E:\ MyGG
>
> ? ? ? ? 
>
> > OSError: [Errno 22] Invalid argument: 'E:\\MyGG(2009-08-24
> > 23:18:25).tar.bz2'
> > "
>
> ? ? ? ? WHERE in your program are you creating that file name? Based upon
> the invocation line, all you are supplying is the E:\MyGG part...
> Somewhere you are creating a timestamp and attaching that to the prefix.
>
> ? ? ? ? THAT is where you need to get rid of the colons -- the ones in the
> timestamp. Instead of 23:18:25 (or whatever the next run generates) you
> want something like 23_18_25...
> --
> ? ? ? ? Wulfraed ? ? ? ? Dennis Lee Bieber ? ? ? ? ? ? ? KD6MOG
> ? ? ? ? wlfr... at ix.netcom.com ? ? ?HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

Yep, i realized that it were THOSE colons. Thanks very much.
I think i must work on my perceptivity  : P

Thanks again.


From nobody at nowhere.com  Tue Aug 25 08:34:33 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:34:33 +0100
Subject: print() and unicode strings (python 3.1)
References: <4eda8137-7db9-4c39-a2c1-3477b071f7f6@x5g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<4a92b83b$0$27209$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	
	<4a92fb02$0$2582$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	
	
	<84154e6e-c425-4b71-89e3-7d2877a19418@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 03:41:54 -0700, 7stud wrote:

> Why does echoing $LC_ALL or $LC_CTYPE just give me a blank string?

Because the variables aren't set.

The default locale for a particular category (e.g. LC_CTYPE) is taken from
$LC_ALL if that is set, otherwise $LC_CTYPE, otherwise $LANG, otherwise
"C" is used.

Normally, you would either set LANG (and possibly some individual LC_*
variables), or LC_ALL. There's no point in setting all of them.

> In conclusion, as far as I can tell, if your python 3.1 program tries
> to output a unicode string, and the unicode string cannot be encoded
> by the codec specified in the user's LANG environment variable**, then
> the user will get an encode error. Just because the programmer's
> system can handle the output doesn't mean that another user's system
> can.  I guess that's the way it goes: if a user's environment is
> telling all programs that it only wants ascii output to go to the
> screen(sys.stdout), you can't(or shouldn't) do anything about it.
> 
> **Or if the LANG environment variable is not present, then the codec
> corresponding to the locale settings(C' corresponds to ascii).

The underlying OS primitive can only handle bytes. If you read or write a
(unicode) string, Python needs to know which encoding is used. For Python
file objects created by the user (via open() etc), you can specify the
encoding; for those created by the runtime (e.g. sys.stdin), Python uses
the locale's LC_CTYPE category to select an encoding.

Data written to or read from text streams is encoded or decoded using the
stream's encoding. Filenames are encoded and decoded using the
filesystem encoding (sys.getfilesystemencoding()). Anything else uses the
default encoding (sys.getdefaultencoding()).

In Python 3, text streams are handled using io.TextIOWrapper:

	http://docs.python.org/3.1/library/io.html#text-i-o

This implements a stream which can read and/or write text data on top of
one which can read and/or write binary data. The sys.std{in,out,err}
streams are instances of TextIOWrapper. You can get the underlying
binary stream from the "buffer" attribute, e.g.:

	sys.stdout.buffer.write(b'hello world\n')

If you need to force a specific encoding (e.g. if the user has specified
an encoding via a command-line option), you can detach the existing
wrapper and create a new one, e.g.:

	sys.stdout = io.TextIOWrapper(sys.stdout.detach(), encoding = new_encoding)



From ebonak at hotmail.com  Tue Aug 25 08:40:24 2009
From: ebonak at hotmail.com (Esmail)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 08:40:24 -0400
Subject: Would there be work for a sysadmin who specializes in python?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

walterbyrd wrote:
> If I took the time to really learn to use python for sysadmin work,
> would I be able to find jobs, or even contract jobs?
> 

FWIW, I think one of the qualities of a good system admin would be the ability
to work with a variety of tools and languages and not focus on one particular
language. Though Perl (not a favorite of mine at all :) seems to be quite
popular for admin type work, and of course knowing some sort of shell
programming etc would come in handy.



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Aug 25 08:44:47 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 22:44:47 +1000
Subject: your favorite debugging tool?
References: 
	
Message-ID: <87ws4sf4g0.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Esmail  writes:

> While I do believe in a minimalist approach (part of the reason I find
> Python so appealing), using print statements sometimes only goes so
> far (for me).

Right, which is where the Python interactive interpreter (which I failed
to mention in my initial response) comes in as my favourite debugging
tool.

-- 
 \     ?When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. |
  `\    Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole |
_o__)                   one and asked Him to forgive me.? ?Emo Philips |
Ben Finney


From ebonak at hotmail.com  Tue Aug 25 08:51:06 2009
From: ebonak at hotmail.com (Esmail)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 08:51:06 -0400
Subject: your favorite debugging tool?
In-Reply-To: <87vdkfiaki.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: 
	<87vdkfiaki.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: 

Hi Ben,

Ben Finney wrote:
> 
> Whenever a simple output statement is too cumbersome for debugging, I
> take it as a sign that the program is too cumbersome to follow.

I'll have to think about this .. though my gut says this is true :-)

re your other point about the interactive shell, I agree it's useful, but
to me still doesn't quite do what a full-fledged debugger can - but perhaps
that is a reflection of my skill with the shell at this point.

Always more to learn.

Esmail



From hniksic at xemacs.org  Tue Aug 25 09:03:12 2009
From: hniksic at xemacs.org (Hrvoje Niksic)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:03:12 +0200
Subject: proposal: add setresuid() system call to python
In-Reply-To: <20090821205040.GK1215@subspacefield.org> (travis's message of
	"Fri, 21 Aug 2009 15:50:40 -0500")
References: <20090717200141.GI6065@subspacefield.org>
	<148918f0907171315i4ed5b274v77581a43c4464f8f@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<7cj89qF27mfrjU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<877hy38mxw.fsf@busola.homelinux.net>
	<20090821205040.GK1215@subspacefield.org>
Message-ID: <87d46kdp0v.fsf@busola.homelinux.net>

travis+ml-python at subspacefield.org writes:

> On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 04:10:35PM +0200, Hrvoje Niksic wrote:
>> To emulate the os-module-type calls, it's better to raise exceptions
>> than return negative values:
>> 
>> > def setresuid(ruid, euid, suid):
>> >     return _setresuid(__uid_t(ruid), __uid_t(euid), __uid_t(suid))
>> 
>> def setresuid(ruid, euid, suid):
>>     res = _setresuid(__uid_t(ruid), __uid_t(euid), __uid_t(suid))
>>     if res < 0:
>>         raise OSError('[Errno %d] %s' % (os.errno, errno.strerror(os.errno)))
>
> I am working on a module to implement all of this, but that raise command
> won't work in Python 2.6.1; it turns out that os.errno is a module, not
> an integer.  Does anyone know how to do what I want (that is, how to access
> the errno set in C functions)?

You should use ctypes.get_errno() instead of os.errno; sorry about that.

Also, when raising OSError, you should set the 'errno' attribute to the
appropriate code.


From nobody at nowhere.com  Tue Aug 25 09:16:23 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:16:23 +0100
Subject: os.popen output different from native shell output
References: <8119e546-b54d-4e72-b8b7-d1f3d104670f@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 01:36:08 -0700, nickname wrote:

>        I am a relative newbie to python, I am using os.popen to run an
> ls command. The output that I get using the read() function is
> different in look and feel from when I run the ls command natively
> from the shell (not via python).

As others have pointed out, the default behaviour of ls is different if
its output is a terminal.

> Is there an easy way to "mirror" the output. When python displays the
> output, how can it tell the bash shell that some of the entries are
> directories and they should appear blue on the bash shell, and that
> everything should not be appearing on 1 column only.

You can get the terminal-style behaviour even when using a pipe with:

	ls -x --color

But why are you reading this information into Python then writing it
back out to the terminal?

If you're planning on processing the output within Python, both the
multi-column format and the escape sequences used for colour will make
such processing awkward.

If you want to enumerate the contents of a directory within Python, use
os.listdir().

If you want to generate coloured output, use the curses module, e.g.:

#!/usr/bin/env python

import sys
import curses

curses.setupterm()
setaf = curses.tigetstr('setaf') or ""
setab = curses.tigetstr('setab') or ""
origp = curses.tigetstr('op') or ""

def fg(c):
    sys.stdout.write(curses.tparm(setaf, c))

def bg(c):
    sys.stdout.write(curses.tparm(setab, c))

def orig():
    sys.stdout.write(origp)

# example
bg(curses.COLOR_BLUE)
fg(curses.COLOR_YELLOW)
print "hello, world"
orig()



From find.mig at paa.google  Tue Aug 25 09:21:16 2009
From: find.mig at paa.google (Esben von Buchwald)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:21:16 +0200
Subject: Protecting against callbacks queuing up?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4a91db65$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>		<4a92b290$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
	
Message-ID: <4a93e575$0$298$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:32:23 +0200, Esben von Buchwald
>  declaimed the following in
> gmane.comp.python.general:
> 
>> I'm new to python, what is an after function and an after call? Couldn't 
>> find excact answer on google...? Do you have a link to some docs?
> 
> 	They would be particular to whatever GUI/event library is in use.
> They aren't part of Python itself.

This is how the accelerometer is accessed
http://pys60.garage.maemo.org/doc/s60/node59.html

I found this called "after"...
http://pys60.garage.maemo.org/doc/s60/node12.html

would that be usable?

If so, how?


From kkuNOTHISmer at thatsearchenginesmail.com  Tue Aug 25 09:30:28 2009
From: kkuNOTHISmer at thatsearchenginesmail.com (Kreso)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:30:28 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Items inheriting attributes from its container?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

Jan Kaliszewski  wrote:
[...]


Great! Thanks to all of you for advices and code.

K.


From brentb at beanfield.com  Tue Aug 25 09:42:00 2009
From: brentb at beanfield.com (Brent Bloxam)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 09:42:00 -0400
Subject: Would there be work for a sysadmin who specializes in python?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A93EA28.8060703@beanfield.com>

walterbyrd wrote:
> If I took the time to really learn to use python for sysadmin work,
> would I be able to find jobs, or even contract jobs?
> 
>>From what I am seeing on the job boards etc., I would have to say no.
> It looks to me as though I could possibly do that with perl, but not
> python.
> 
> Of course, I could be missing something. Job board ads can be
> deceptive.

Being a system admin is about being able to handle to many different 
situations, and your tasks can often include automating various things 
and writing tools. Depending on the sort of place you're working in and 
the size of the IT department, you could find yourself doing a lot of 
work that lies outside of the standard job description for a system 
administrator. If you're looking to start out in the field, it would be 
better to have general knowledge, and as you gain experience you can 
begin to specialize.

Being adaptable is key, so specializing in python probably won't gain 
you any ground as a system administrator. That being said, knowing 
python will mean you have another tool in your chest, which is 
definitely a good thing. If there's one thing I'd recommend, if you're 
not going to focus on a windows environment, would be to at least get 
perl under your belt as well.


From jkpeck at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 10:02:36 2009
From: jkpeck at gmail.com (JKPeck)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 07:02:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: csv module and None values
References: 
	
	<23c02daf-dc5a-4676-8d73-9dc63791825f@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4006702e-14c5-4917-b76f-906233cad71e@k30g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 24, 10:43?pm, John Yeung  wrote:
> On Aug 24, 5:00?pm, Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
>
> > If I understand you correctly the csv.writer already does
> > what you want:
>
> > >>> w.writerow([1,None,2])
> > 1,,2
>
> > just sequential commas, but that is the special treatment.
> > Without it the None value would be converted to a string
> > and the line would look like this one:
>
> > 1,None,2
>
> No, I think he means he is getting
>
> >>> w.writerow([1,None,2])
>
> 1,"",2
>
> He evidently wants to quote "all" strings, but doesn't want None to be
> considered a string.
>
> John

Exactly so.  The requirement of the receiving program, which is out of
my control, is that all strings be quoted but a None in a numeric
field result in the ,, output rather than "".  Excel quotes strings
conditionally, which doesn't do what is needed in this case.  For
QUOTE_NONNUMERIC to quote None values makes some sense, but it gets in
the way of representing missing values in a numeric field.  It would
be nice to have a choice here in the dialects.

I thought of replacing the None values with float(nan), since that has
a numeric type, but unfortunately that results in writing the string
(unquoted) nan for the value.  So the sentinel approach seems to be
the best I can do.

Thanks,
Jon


From chris0wj at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 10:14:12 2009
From: chris0wj at gmail.com (Chris)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 07:14:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: multiprocessing managers and socket connection.
Message-ID: <722664f1-81af-45da-ae40-070bca8f3ee0@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

I've been using multiprocessing managers and I really like the
functionality.

I have a question about reconnecting to a manager. I have a situation
where I start on one machine (A) a manager that is listening and then
on another machine (B) connects to that manager and uses its proxy
object to call functions on the manager's computer; this all works as
expected. But, if the manager from A shuts down, B's application won't
notice because in the MP code it ignores socket error
errno.ECONNREFUSED. If A becomes available again or is restarted, B
doesn't automatically reconnect either and continue its operation.
It's function is basically stopped.

Here is the code from connection.py:
while 1:
        try:
            s.connect(address)
        except socket.error, e:
            if e.args[0] != errno.ECONNREFUSED: # connection refused
                debug('failed to connect to address %s', address)
                raise
            time.sleep(0.01)
        else:
            break

How can I have B automatically reconnect to A and continue its work
once A is available again?


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Tue Aug 25 10:14:49 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 25 Aug 2009 14:14:49 GMT
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
References: 
	
	
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
	
	
	<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com>
	
	
	
	
	<02a31f91$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<44bcb727-0885-4d4f-9c11-ca60a39b0d91@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <02a3e1e2$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:01:38 -0700, Mensanator wrote:

>> If you want your data file to have values entered in hex, or oct, or
>> even unary (1=one, 11=two, 111=three, 1111=four...) you can.
> 
> Unary? I think you'll find that Standard Positional Number Systems are
> not defined for radix 1.

Of course not. But unary isn't a positional number system. It's a tally 
system, like my example above shows. Roman numerals are another tally 
system. Like Roman numerals, the disadvantages of unary are that you 
can't represent negative numbers, zero, or fractions, and anything but 
addition and subtraction is difficult. But if you want to use it, perhaps 
out of a sense of sadism towards your users, it's easy:

def int2unary(n):
    return '1'*n

def unary2int(s):
    n = 0
    for c in s:
        if c == '1': n+=1
        else: raise ValueError('invalid unary string')
    return n



-- 
Steven


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Aug 25 10:27:40 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:27:40 +0200
Subject: your favorite debugging tool?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<87vdkfiaki.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
Message-ID: <4A93F4DC.3090708@sequans.com>

Esmail wrote:
> Hi Ben,
>
> Ben Finney wrote:
>>
>> Whenever a simple output statement is too cumbersome for debugging, I
>> take it as a sign that the program is too cumbersome to follow.
>
> I'll have to think about this .. though my gut says this is true :-)
>
That is not always true. When it comes to implement complex tasks, you 
can't always avoid writing complex code. Python does not get your code 
more complex than your algorithm, but it cannot always simplify it.

Ben is right when he says that code can often be written in a more 
simpler manner, but they are some occasions when you have to write 
complex code, that the print debug statement won't be efficient enough 
to sort things out. I personally develop/maintain a full application 
written in python (and quite complex for some parts), using the ipdb 
debugger just saved my hours (days) of headache about some very 
difficult bug to spot
> re your other point about the interactive shell, I agree it's useful, but
> to me still doesn't quite do what a full-fledged debugger can - but 
> perhaps
> that is a reflection of my skill with the shell at this point.
>
> Always more to learn.
>
> Esmail
>

90% of the time, print statements + ipython shell will do the trick. The 
post mortem debugging is also very useful. Execute your  python file in 
ipython, then when it exits upon exception, execute
 >>> import pdb ; pdb.pm()
You can then inspect the symbols easily.

JM


From ryniek90 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 10:37:21 2009
From: ryniek90 at gmail.com (Ryniek90)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:37:21 +0200
Subject: TypeError: _getfullpathname() argument 1 must be (buffer overflow),
	not str  in windows xp, while making tarfile
Message-ID: <4A93F721.10104@gmail.com>

Referring to my earlier posts:
http://groups.google.pl/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/4e34f995800f5352?hl=pl

and

http://groups.google.pl/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/abf5573b8fceb37e?hl=pl#

I've dealt with those errors. but now have another.
When my backup scripts starts to backup chosen file, python gave me 
Traceback:

"
C:\Users\Ryniek's WinSe7en\Documents\My 
Dropbox\Aplikacje\Moje_aplikacje\Pythonowe_aplikacje\Skrypty>python ba
ckuper.py -f F:\APLIKACJE\nowegg.exe F:\ MyGGBackup
Checking permissions for reading and writing...
Have permissions on [F:\APLIKACJE\nowegg.exe] for reading.
Have permissions on [F:\] for writing.
Preparing for backup [nowegg.exe]...
Starting backup...
Now adding [nowegg.exe]...
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "backuper.py", line 197, in 
    main_meth()
  File "backuper.py", line 189, in main_meth
    paq.backup_file(pars.options.filename[0], pars.options.filename[1], 
pars.options.filename[2])
  File "backuper.py", line 127, in backup_file
    backup_obj.add(read_bin_obj)
  File "E:\WinSe7en Apps\APLIKACJE\ActiveState Python 
2.6\lib\tarfile.py", line 1948, in add
    if self.name is not None and os.path.abspath(name) == self.name:
  File "E:\WinSe7en Apps\APLIKACJE\ActiveState Python 
2.6\lib\ntpath.py", line 458, in abspath
    path = _getfullpathname(path)
TypeError: _getfullpathname() argument 1 must be (buffer overflow), not str
"

I've searched over google, but found only that is bug in Python ( 
http://bugs.python.org/issue4071  - in that issue bug is inside Python 
2.5.2 - i've got ActiveState Active Python with core Python 2.6.2), and 
another  info:   *http://tinyurl.com/lvyn7o  and **http://tinyurl.com/kn49vk
*

Here's my script code:
*http://paste.ubuntu.com/259310/

*Shouldn't that bug be patched already  :-?


From chris at simplistix.co.uk  Tue Aug 25 10:45:53 2009
From: chris at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:45:53 +0100
Subject: inconsistent sitecustomize.py importing...
Message-ID: <4A93F921.9080904@simplistix.co.uk>

Hi All,

Give this sitecustomize.py:

print "ping"

...and this script:

#!/usr/local/bin/python2.5
print "pong!"

...both in ~/folder, I would expect the output from:

~$./folder/script

...to be:

ping
pong

...but sitecustomize.py is not imported :-(

If I do:

~$/usr/local/bin/python2.5 folder/script

...still no import.

However, if I do:

~/folder$/usr/local/bin/python2.5 script

...sitecustomize.py IS imported!

What gives?!

Chris

-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting
            - http://www.simplistix.co.uk


From __peter__ at web.de  Tue Aug 25 10:49:07 2009
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:49:07 +0200
Subject: csv module and None values
References: 
	
	<23c02daf-dc5a-4676-8d73-9dc63791825f@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<4006702e-14c5-4917-b76f-906233cad71e@k30g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

JKPeck wrote:

> On Aug 24, 10:43 pm, John Yeung  wrote:
>> On Aug 24, 5:00 pm, Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
>>
>> > If I understand you correctly the csv.writer already does
>> > what you want:
>>
>> > >>> w.writerow([1,None,2])
>> > 1,,2
>>
>> > just sequential commas, but that is the special treatment.
>> > Without it the None value would be converted to a string
>> > and the line would look like this one:
>>
>> > 1,None,2
>>
>> No, I think he means he is getting
>>
>> >>> w.writerow([1,None,2])
>>
>> 1,"",2
>>
>> He evidently wants to quote "all" strings, but doesn't want None to be
>> considered a string.
>>
>> John
> 
> Exactly so.  The requirement of the receiving program, which is out of
> my control, is that all strings be quoted but a None in a numeric
> field result in the ,, output rather than "".  Excel quotes strings
> conditionally, which doesn't do what is needed in this case.  For
> QUOTE_NONNUMERIC to quote None values makes some sense, but it gets in
> the way of representing missing values in a numeric field.  It would
> be nice to have a choice here in the dialects.
> 
> I thought of replacing the None values with float(nan), since that has
> a numeric type, but unfortunately that results in writing the string
> (unquoted) nan for the value.  So the sentinel approach seems to be
> the best I can do.

How about:

>>> import csv, sys
>>> class N(int):
...     def __str__(self): return ""
...
>>> pseudo_none = N()
>>> w = csv.writer(sys.stdout, quoting=csv.QUOTE_NONNUMERIC)
>>> w.writerow([1, "foo", pseudo_none, "bar"])
1,"foo",,"bar"

Peter



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Tue Aug 25 10:49:56 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 00:49:56 +1000
Subject: your favorite debugging tool?
References: 
	<87vdkfiaki.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
Message-ID: <87skfgeynf.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Esmail  writes:

> Hi Ben,
>
> Ben Finney wrote:
> >
> > Whenever a simple output statement is too cumbersome for debugging, I
> > take it as a sign that the program is too cumbersome to follow.
>
> I'll have to think about this .. though my gut says this is true :-)

Note that it's only a sign, *not* an ironclad guarantee. But it's the
right way to bet, IME.

> re your other point about the interactive shell, I agree it's useful,
> but to me still doesn't quite do what a full-fledged debugger can -
> but perhaps that is a reflection of my skill with the shell at this
> point.

This, on the other hand, I find even more consistent: if the code can't
be effectively inspected from the interactive interpreter, that's a sure
sign that its external interfaces are poor or its internal dependencies
too tightly coupled; or more likely both.

Fixing that set of problems is both useful for debugging *and* good
design.

-- 
 \         ?Alternative explanations are always welcome in science, if |
  `\   they are better and explain more. Alternative explanations that |
_o__) explain nothing are not welcome.? ?Victor J. Stenger, 2001-11-05 |
Ben Finney


From chris at simplistix.co.uk  Tue Aug 25 10:53:03 2009
From: chris at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:53:03 +0100
Subject: Even more inconsistent sitecustomize.py importing with PYTHONPATH
	rolled in...
In-Reply-To: <4A93F921.9080904@simplistix.co.uk>
References: <4A93F921.9080904@simplistix.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4A93FACF.9000608@simplistix.co.uk>

Chris Withers wrote:
> However, if I do:
> 
> ~/folder$/usr/local/bin/python2.5 script
> 
> ...sitecustomize.py IS imported!

However, the following doesn't import sitecustomize.py:

~/folder$ ./script

While the following DOES import sitecustomize.py:

~/folder$ export PYTHONPATH=
~/folder$ ./script

Bizarrely, none of the following import sitecustomize.py:

~$ export PYTHONPATH=~/folder
~$ ./script

~$ export PYTHONPATH=~/folder/
~$ ./script

~$ export PYTHONPATH=~/folder
~/folder$ ./script

~$ export PYTHONPATH=~/folder/
~/folder$ ./script

Does anyone have any clue why there's such a huge level of inconsistency 
here?!

Chris

-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting
            - http://www.simplistix.co.uk


From chris at simplistix.co.uk  Tue Aug 25 11:05:14 2009
From: chris at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:05:14 +0100
Subject: Even more inconsistent sitecustomize.py importing with PYTHONPATH
	rolled in...
In-Reply-To: <4A93FACF.9000608@simplistix.co.uk>
References: <4A93F921.9080904@simplistix.co.uk>
	<4A93FACF.9000608@simplistix.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4A93FDAA.2050206@simplistix.co.uk>

Chris Withers wrote:
> Bizarrely, none of the following import sitecustomize.py:
> 
> ~$ export PYTHONPATH=~/folder
> ~$ ./script
> 
> ~$ export PYTHONPATH=~/folder/
> ~$ ./script
> 
> ~$ export PYTHONPATH=~/folder
> ~/folder$ ./script
> 
> ~$ export PYTHONPATH=~/folder/
> ~/folder$ ./script

Okay, brain fail on my part, these do work, the others are still as 
described though...

Chris

-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting
            - http://www.simplistix.co.uk


From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org  Tue Aug 25 11:26:44 2009
From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 08:26:44 -0700
Subject: Putting together a larger matrix from smaller matrices
In-Reply-To: <0si695db7bm7rfelo9iud89d8vda32176r@4ax.com>
References: <0si695db7bm7rfelo9iud89d8vda32176r@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <95-dnVK31vsFnQnXnZ2dnUVZ_qmdnZ2d@pdx.net>

Matjaz Bezovnik wrote:

If you are using numpy (which it sounds like you are):

IDLE 2.6.2
 >>> import numpy as np
 >>> v = np.array([[0,1,2],[3,4,5],[6,7,8]], dtype=float)
 >>> v
array([[ 0.,  1.,  2.],
        [ 3.,  4.,  5.],
        [ 6.,  7.,  8.]])
 >>> w = np.array([[10,11,12],[13,14,15],[16,17,18]], dtype=float)
 >>> w
array([[ 10.,  11.,  12.],
        [ 13.,  14.,  15.],
        [ 16.,  17.,  18.]])
 >>> r = np.zeros((6,6))
 >>> r
array([[ 0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.],
        [ 0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.],
        [ 0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.],
        [ 0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.],
        [ 0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.],
        [ 0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.]])
 >>> r[:3,:3] = v
 >>> r
array([[ 0.,  1.,  2.,  0.,  0.,  0.],
        [ 3.,  4.,  5.,  0.,  0.,  0.],
        [ 6.,  7.,  8.,  0.,  0.,  0.],
        [ 0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.],
        [ 0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.],
        [ 0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.]])
 >>> r[3:,3:] = w
 >>> r
array([[  0.,   1.,   2.,   0.,   0.,   0.],
        [  3.,   4.,   5.,   0.,   0.,   0.],
        [  6.,   7.,   8.,   0.,   0.,   0.],
        [  0.,   0.,   0.,  10.,  11.,  12.],
        [  0.,   0.,   0.,  13.,  14.,  15.],
        [  0.,   0.,   0.,  16.,  17.,  18.]])
 >>>

In general, make the right-sized array of zeros, and at various points:
and you can ssign to subranges of the result array:

     N = 3
     result = np.zeros((len(parts) * N, len(parts) * N), dtype=float)
     for n, chunk in enumerate(parts):
         base = n * 3
         result[base : base + 3, base : base + 3] = chunk

--Scott David Daniels
Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Tue Aug 25 11:28:31 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 25 Aug 2009 15:28:31 GMT
Subject: inconsistent sitecustomize.py importing...
References: 
Message-ID: <02a3f329$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:45:53 +0100, Chris Withers wrote:

> Hi All,
> 
> Give this sitecustomize.py:
[...]
> What gives?!

Perhaps this?

http://bugs.python.org/issue1734860


-- 
Steven


From no.email at please.post  Tue Aug 25 11:33:26 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:33:26 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
Message-ID: 




I have many years of programming experience, and a few languages,
under my belt, but still Python scoping rules remain mysterious to
me.  (In fact, Python's scoping behavior is the main reason I gave
up several earlier attempts to learn Python.)

Here's a toy example illustrating what I mean.  It's a simplification
of a real-life coding situation, in which I need to initialize a
"private" class variable by using a recursive helper function.

class Demo(object):
    def fact(n):
        if n < 2:
            return 1
        else:
            return n * fact(n - 1)

    _classvar = fact(5)

This code fails to compile, with the error "global name 'fact' not
defined".

Scanning the Python Language Reference page I see nothing that
would suggest to me a discussion of Python's scoping rules, let
alone anything that would help me solve the specific problem above.
I'm sure it's in there, *somewhere*, but it's anyone's guess where.

Likewise, my book, Beazley's "Python: Essential Reference" is of
no help.  I don't doubt that the answer to my question "is in there,
*somewhere*", but finding it (without reading the book sequentially
from page 1) is a tall order.

All that's left is trial-and-error, the worst kind of programming.
And still I can't find the right way to do this...  I've tried
every variant of this code that I can imagine, including decorating
fact with @staticmethod or @classmethod, etc., etc.  (In the latter
case, I get cryptic errors saying that the staticmethod or classmethod
object is not callable.  Or something like that.)

Needless to say, I'm pretty beat by this point.  Any help would be
appreciated.

Thanks,

kynn


From mbezovnik at freenet.si  Tue Aug 25 11:37:09 2009
From: mbezovnik at freenet.si (Matjaz Bezovnik)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 17:37:09 +0200
Subject: Putting together a larger matrix from smaller matrices
References: <0si695db7bm7rfelo9iud89d8vda32176r@4ax.com>
	<95-dnVK31vsFnQnXnZ2dnUVZ_qmdnZ2d@pdx.net>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 08:26:44 -0700, Scott David Daniels
 wrote:

>Matjaz Bezovnik wrote:
>
>If you are using numpy (which it sounds like you are):
>
>IDLE 2.6.2
> >>> import numpy as np
> >>> v = np.array([[0,1,2],[3,4,5],[6,7,8]], dtype=float)
> >>> v
>array([[ 0.,  1.,  2.],
>        [ 3.,  4.,  5.],
>        [ 6.,  7.,  8.]])
> >>> w = np.array([[10,11,12],[13,14,15],[16,17,18]], dtype=float)
> >>> w
>array([[ 10.,  11.,  12.],
>        [ 13.,  14.,  15.],
>        [ 16.,  17.,  18.]])
> >>> r = np.zeros((6,6))
> >>> r
>array([[ 0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.],
>        [ 0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.],
>        [ 0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.],
>        [ 0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.],
>        [ 0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.],
>        [ 0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.]])
> >>> r[:3,:3] = v
> >>> r
>array([[ 0.,  1.,  2.,  0.,  0.,  0.],
>        [ 3.,  4.,  5.,  0.,  0.,  0.],
>        [ 6.,  7.,  8.,  0.,  0.,  0.],
>        [ 0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.],
>        [ 0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.],
>        [ 0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.,  0.]])
> >>> r[3:,3:] = w
> >>> r
>array([[  0.,   1.,   2.,   0.,   0.,   0.],
>        [  3.,   4.,   5.,   0.,   0.,   0.],
>        [  6.,   7.,   8.,   0.,   0.,   0.],
>        [  0.,   0.,   0.,  10.,  11.,  12.],
>        [  0.,   0.,   0.,  13.,  14.,  15.],
>        [  0.,   0.,   0.,  16.,  17.,  18.]])
> >>>
>
>In general, make the right-sized array of zeros, and at various points:
>and you can ssign to subranges of the result array:
>
>     N = 3
>     result = np.zeros((len(parts) * N, len(parts) * N), dtype=float)
>     for n, chunk in enumerate(parts):
>         base = n * 3
>         result[base : base + 3, base : base + 3] = chunk
>
>--Scott David Daniels
>Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org



Scott, thank you very much for the snippet.

It is exactly what I looked for; simple to read and obvious as to what
it does even a month later to a non-pythonist!

Matjaz


From ndbecker2 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 11:49:03 2009
From: ndbecker2 at gmail.com (Neal Becker)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 11:49:03 -0400
Subject: Graph library recommendations for large graphs
References: 
Message-ID: 

VanL wrote:

> I am working on a project that will require building and querying large
> graph objects (initially 8M nodes, 30-40M edges; eventually 40M nodes,
> 100M edges). NetworkX seems to be the most popular, but I am concerned
> that a dict representation for nodes would use too much memory -- my
> initial tests suggest that a graph with 3M nodes and 12M edges creates
> substantial memory pressure on my machine.
> 
> Can anybody who has worked with large graphs before give a recommendation?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Van
> 
How about python-igraph?



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Tue Aug 25 12:00:35 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 17:00:35 +0100
Subject: TypeError: _getfullpathname() argument 1 must be (buffer
	overflow), not str  in windows xp, while making tarfile
In-Reply-To: <4A93F721.10104@gmail.com>
References: <4A93F721.10104@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A940AA3.8080003@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Ryniek90 wrote:
> Referring to my earlier posts:
> http://groups.google.pl/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/4e34f995800f5352?hl=pl 
> 
> 
> and
> 
> http://groups.google.pl/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/abf5573b8fceb37e?hl=pl# 
> 
> 
> I've dealt with those errors. but now have another.
> When my backup scripts starts to backup chosen file, python gave me 
> Traceback:
> 
> "
> C:\Users\Ryniek's WinSe7en\Documents\My 
> Dropbox\Aplikacje\Moje_aplikacje\Pythonowe_aplikacje\Skrypty>python ba
> ckuper.py -f F:\APLIKACJE\nowegg.exe F:\ MyGGBackup
> Checking permissions for reading and writing...
> Have permissions on [F:\APLIKACJE\nowegg.exe] for reading.
> Have permissions on [F:\] for writing.
> Preparing for backup [nowegg.exe]...
> Starting backup...
> Now adding [nowegg.exe]...
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "backuper.py", line 197, in 
>    main_meth()
>  File "backuper.py", line 189, in main_meth
>    paq.backup_file(pars.options.filename[0], pars.options.filename[1], 
> pars.options.filename[2])
>  File "backuper.py", line 127, in backup_file
>    backup_obj.add(read_bin_obj)
>  File "E:\WinSe7en Apps\APLIKACJE\ActiveState Python 
> 2.6\lib\tarfile.py", line 1948, in add
>    if self.name is not None and os.path.abspath(name) == self.name:
>  File "E:\WinSe7en Apps\APLIKACJE\ActiveState Python 2.6\lib\ntpath.py", 
> line 458, in abspath
>    path = _getfullpathname(path)
> TypeError: _getfullpathname() argument 1 must be (buffer overflow), not str
> "
> 
> I've searched over google, but found only that is bug in Python ( 
> http://bugs.python.org/issue4071  - in that issue bug is inside Python 
> 2.5.2 - i've got ActiveState Active Python with core Python 2.6.2), and 
> another  info:   *http://tinyurl.com/lvyn7o  and 
> **http://tinyurl.com/kn49vk
> *
> 
> Here's my script code:
> *http://paste.ubuntu.com/259310/
> 
> *Shouldn't that bug be patched already  :-?
Are you giving it the contents of the file when it's actually expecting
the filename?


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Tue Aug 25 12:02:31 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 18:02:31 +0200
Subject: Protecting against callbacks queuing up?
In-Reply-To: <4a93e575$0$298$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
References: <4a91db65$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
	
	<4a93e575$0$298$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
Message-ID: <200908251802.31556.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Tuesday 25 August 2009 15:21:16 Esben von Buchwald wrote:
> Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> > On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:32:23 +0200, Esben von Buchwald
> >  declaimed the following in
> >
> > gmane.comp.python.general:
> >> I'm new to python, what is an after function and an after call? Couldn't
> >> find excact answer on google...? Do you have a link to some docs?
> >
> > 	They would be particular to whatever GUI/event library is in use.
> > They aren't part of Python itself.
>
> This is how the accelerometer is accessed
> http://pys60.garage.maemo.org/doc/s60/node59.html
>
> I found this called "after"...
> http://pys60.garage.maemo.org/doc/s60/node12.html
>
> would that be usable?
Probably
>
> If so, how?

This is a guess, for your device,  but I suspect
something along these lines:

t = Ao_timer()

cb = t.after(100,thing_that_does_the_work(with_its_arguments))

Lots of assumptions here - the 100 should give you a tenth of a second...
Don't know what the arguments look like, and if you need to pass an instance 
(like self) - that would depend on where you are calling it from.

Play and see :-)

You should also be able to cancel the callback like this:

t.cancel(cb)

If you do it before the time out

- Hendrik



From nicola.larosa at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 12:06:37 2009
From: nicola.larosa at gmail.com (Nicola Larosa (tekNico))
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 09:06:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Code formatting question: conditional expression
References: 
Message-ID: <421c8c9d-efb5-4e70-9321-51736b42bc9a@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

John Posner wrote:
> Is there any consensus on how to format a conditional expression
> that is too long for one line?

Here's my take:

    excessblk = Block(total - P.BASE, srccol,
carry_button_suppress=True
        ) if total > P.BASE else None

--
Nicola Larosa - http://www.tekNico.net/

Nobody knows everything, and nobody is expected to be perfect
in the Ubuntu community (except of course the SABDFL).
 - https://launchpad.net/codeofconduct/1.0


From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Tue Aug 25 12:09:09 2009
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 17:09:09 +0100
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <9t2dnVFZo-g4kQnXnZ2dnUVZ8uidnZ2d@bt.com>

kj wrote:

> 
> Here's a toy example illustrating what I mean.  It's a simplification
> of a real-life coding situation, in which I need to initialize a
> "private" class variable by using a recursive helper function.

eh?

> 
> class Demo(object):
>     def fact(n):
>         if n < 2:
>             return 1
>         else:
>             return n * fact(n - 1)
> 
>     _classvar = fact(5)
> 

Sorry still doesn't make sense, I'll give it a try though:

class Demo(object):
     """Apparently a 'real-life coding situation'"""
     def __init__(self):
         # Look at http://docs.python.org/tutorial/classes.html
         # for init explanation.
         self.__class_var = self.fact(5)

     def fact(self, number):
         """Look at http://docs.python.org/tutorial/classes.html why you 
need
         self."""
         if number < 2:
             return(1)
         else:
             return_value = number * self.fact(number -1)
             return(return_value)


TEST = Demo()
# Print the 'private' class variable
print(TEST._Demo__class_var)

-- 
MPH
http://blog.dcuktec.com
'If consumed, best digested with added seasoning to own preference.'


From garrickp at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 12:11:47 2009
From: garrickp at gmail.com (Falcolas)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 09:11:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: your favorite debugging tool?
References:  
	
	
Message-ID: <97f6dd5f-ffa7-4d73-8545-378301a5f6e1@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 23, 1:21?am, Hendrik van Rooyen 
wrote:
> On Saturday 22 August 2009 16:49:22 Aahz wrote:
>
> > In article ,
>
> > Esmail ? wrote:
> > >What is your favorite tool to help you debug your code? I've been
> > >getting along with 'print' statements but that is getting old and
> > >somewhat cumbersome.
>
> > Despite the fact that I've been using Python for more than a decade,
> > print is still my mainstay (or possibly logging to a file).
>
> Same here, although I have not been abusing python for as long as Aahz has
> been using it.
>
> ...
>
> And the final arbiter is of course the interactive prompt.
>
> - Hendrik

The only thing I would add to these comments is the fact that writing
helper functions for using print with complicated routines is very
simple, though perhaps not obvious. For example, consider the
following for unrolling list comprehensions or generators without
having to re-write them:

def trace(iterable):
    for x in iterable:
        print x
        yield x

~G


From deets at nospam.web.de  Tue Aug 25 12:14:26 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 18:14:26 +0200
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
Message-ID: <7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

kj wrote:

> 
> 
> 
> I have many years of programming experience, and a few languages,
> under my belt, but still Python scoping rules remain mysterious to
> me.  (In fact, Python's scoping behavior is the main reason I gave
> up several earlier attempts to learn Python.)
> 
> Here's a toy example illustrating what I mean.  It's a simplification
> of a real-life coding situation, in which I need to initialize a
> "private" class variable by using a recursive helper function.
> 
> class Demo(object):
>     def fact(n):
>         if n < 2:
>             return 1
>         else:
>             return n * fact(n - 1)
> 
>     _classvar = fact(5)
> 
> This code fails to compile, with the error "global name 'fact' not
> defined".
> 
> Scanning the Python Language Reference page I see nothing that
> would suggest to me a discussion of Python's scoping rules, let
> alone anything that would help me solve the specific problem above.
> I'm sure it's in there, *somewhere*, but it's anyone's guess where.
> 
> Likewise, my book, Beazley's "Python: Essential Reference" is of
> no help.  I don't doubt that the answer to my question "is in there,
> *somewhere*", but finding it (without reading the book sequentially
> from page 1) is a tall order.
> 
> All that's left is trial-and-error, the worst kind of programming.
> And still I can't find the right way to do this...  I've tried
> every variant of this code that I can imagine, including decorating
> fact with @staticmethod or @classmethod, etc., etc.  (In the latter
> case, I get cryptic errors saying that the staticmethod or classmethod
> object is not callable.  Or something like that.)

Classes are not scopes. 

So the above doesn't work because name resolution inside functions/methods
looks for local variables first, then for the *global* scope. There is no
class-scope-lookup.

If you want anything else, you need to qualify it with a full name,
Demo.fact. Which isn't working for your example because "Demo" isn't
available yet.

But if you insist on the above methodology, you can do this:


class Demo(object):

    def fact(n):
        def inner(n):
            if n < 2:
                return 1
            else:
                return n * inner(n - 1)
        return inner(n)

    _classvar = fact(5)

This makes inner a *local* variable, which is found.

Diez



From gordon at panix.com  Tue Aug 25 12:19:33 2009
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:19:33 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Web Services examples using "raw" xml?
References: 
	<4a936e84$0$31337$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: 

In <4a936e84$0$31337$9b4e6d93 at newsspool4.arcor-online.net> Stefan Behnel  writes:

> > I tried WSDL.Proxy() from the SOAPpy package and eventually end up
> > with this error:
> > 
> > xml.parsers.expat.ExpatError: not well-formed (invalid token): line 1, column 6

> Is that while parsing the WSDL file? Have you tried pushing it through an
> XML parser yourself (or opening it with an XML editor) to see if it really
> is XML?

The 'invalid token' error happens if the argument to WSDL.Proxy() is a
string containing a URL beginning with https.  (It doesn't happen with a
http URL, but I'm stuck with https.)

As a next step, I grabbed the content from the https url in a browser,
saved it to a file, inserted it into the python code as a large string,
and passed that string to WSDL.Proxy().

That produced a KeyError 'targetNamespace' from this snippet of XML:

  
    
  

I looked at the code and it apparently requires that the parent tag of
 have a targetNamespace attribute.  So I made one up and added
it, like so:

  

I have no idea if this was the right thing to do, but it did let me advance
to the next error:

  Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "soappytest.py", line 1020, in ?
    server = jrgWSDL.Proxy(wsdlFile)
  File "/home/gordonj/wsdl/jrgSOAPpy/jrgWSDL.py", line 75, in __init__
    service = self.wsdl.services[0]
  File "/home/gordonj/wsdl/jrgwstools/Utility.py", line 631, in __getitem__
    return self.list[key]
IndexError: list index out of range

After poking around in the code a bit more, I think that self.wsdl.services
is supposed to be a collection of all the services offered by the wsdl, but
it's actually empty, which is why it throws an error when it tries to
access the first element.

So that's where I'm stuck at the moment.  I have no idea why
self.wsdl.services isn't getting populated correctly -- or even if that's
the real problem!

Any suggestions?

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Aug 25 12:36:28 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 18:36:28 +0200
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A94130C.9050809@sequans.com>

kj wrote:
>
> I have many years of programming experience, and a few languages,
> under my belt, but still Python scoping rules remain mysterious to
> me.  (In fact, Python's scoping behavior is the main reason I gave
> up several earlier attempts to learn Python.)
>
> Here's a toy example illustrating what I mean.  It's a simplification
> of a real-life coding situation, in which I need to initialize a
> "private" class variable by using a recursive helper function.
>
> class Demo(object):
>     def fact(n):
>         if n < 2:
>             return 1
>         else:
>             return n * fact(n - 1)
>
>     _classvar = fact(5)
>
> This code fails to compile, with the error "global name 'fact' not
> defined".
>   
[snip]

fact is defined within the Demo class, so to access it, you'll need to 
prefix it with Demo:

_classvar = Demo.fact(5).

The problem is, Demo will raise a NameError exception.
The solution is pretty simple, cause your fact function seems to be 
unrelated to the Demo class :

def _fact(n):
    # some code

class Demo(object):
    _classvar = _fact(5)


It may happen that you *want* your fact within the Demo, in you example 
it's not that obvious, but I think Java would allow such following patern:

class Color:
    def __init__(self, r, g,b):
          pass
    BLACK = Color(0,0,0)

It make sens from a design point of view to put BLACK in the Color 
namespace. But I don't think it's possible with python.
You could trick the system using inheritance:

class Chrome:
    def __init__(self, r,g,b)
       pass
Putting all your code in the Chrome class then:

class Color(Chrome):
    BLACK = Chrome(0,0,0)

I'm not sure this is satisfying.

JM


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Tue Aug 25 12:47:20 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 18:47:20 +0200
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: <7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <4A941598.3000207@sequans.com>

Diez B. Roggisch wrote
> Classes are not scopes. 
>
>   
Too bad, could have been handy.

JM


From contact at xavierho.com  Tue Aug 25 12:55:41 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 02:55:41 +1000
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: <4A94130C.9050809@sequans.com>
References:  <4A94130C.9050809@sequans.com>
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908250955h6aedb3efp52168a719bfaf5e5@mail.gmail.com>

I'm not really quite sure what voodoo I did here, but my code seems to work
in Python 3.1.1 in the following way:

class Demo(object):
    def func(self, n):
        return n * 5
    _f = func(None, 5)

d = Demo()
print(d._f)
print(d.func(5))

# OUTPUT
25
25

So, hmm?

Regards,

Ching-Yun "Xavier" Ho, Technical Artist

Contact Information
Mobile: (+61) 04 3335 4748
Skype ID: SpaXe85
Email: contact at xavierho.com
Website: http://xavierho.com/
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From deets at nospam.web.de  Tue Aug 25 12:55:41 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 18:55:41 +0200
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
Message-ID: <7fijcdF2kheecU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:

> Diez B. Roggisch wrote
>> Classes are not scopes.
>>
>>   
> Too bad, could have been handy.

Nope. Because then a lot of people would write something like this:


class Foo(object):


   def bar(self):
       bar() # note the missing self.


And this would lead to errors because self was missing from the call
to "bar".

And you'd need a disambiguation for methodname/global-name-clashes. The
global-statement would work, but then code could break when all  of a
sudden a subclass defines a method that hitherto was only known as global.
So via subclassing, you introduce *arbitray* and hard to debug errors.

No. I'm certain, not a good idea.

Diez


From contact at xavierho.com  Tue Aug 25 12:58:58 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 02:58:58 +1000
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: <7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908250958q96905caw4185c20b9e12cd33@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 2:14 AM, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:

>
> Classes are not scopes.
>
> So the above doesn't work because name resolution inside functions/methods
> looks for local variables first, then for the *global* scope. There is no
> class-scope-lookup.


Sorry, I'm coming here with sincere ignorance. If local variables and global
variables are not "scopes", then what would it be?

Cheers,
-Xav
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From sdementen at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 13:25:27 2009
From: sdementen at gmail.com (seb)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 10:25:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: conditional for-statement
References:  
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 23, 11:02?pm, Chris Rebert  wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 1:36 PM, seb wrote:
> > On Aug 23, 6:18?pm, John Posner  wrote:
> >> >> Hi,
>
> >> >> i was wondering if there is a syntax alike:
>
> >> >> for i in range(10) if i > 5:
> >> >> ? ? print i
>
> >> > You can write
>
> >> > for i in filter(lambda i: i > 5, range(10)):
> >> > ? ? print i
>
> >> > but
>
> >> > for i in range(10):
> >> > ? ? if i > 5:
> >> > ? ? ? ? print i
>
> >> > it' better readable, and
>
> >> > for i in range(6,10):
> >> > ? ? print i
>
> >> > it's event better.
>
> >> How about using a generator expression instead of a list?
>
> >> ? for i in (x for x in range(10) if x > 5):
> >> ? ? ? print i
>
> >> -John
>
> > Indeed, but we could have the same syntax than for generators but
> > directly in the for statement as in
> > for variable in generator if condition:
> > ? ?body
>
> > Is there a special reason for not doing so ? A rejected PEP ?
>
> It's not been added since it's completely unnecessary (see the several
> alternatives already presented by others).
> There have been a few other mailinglist threads on adding essentially
> the same syntax. None have proved fruitful.
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --http://blog.rebertia.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

On Aug 23, 11:02 pm, Chris Rebert  wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 1:36 PM, seb wrote:
> > On Aug 23, 6:18 pm, John Posner  wrote:
> >> >> Hi,
>
> >> >> i was wondering if there is a syntax alike:
>
> >> >> for i in range(10) if i > 5:
> >> >>     print i
>
> >> > You can write
>
> >> > for i in filter(lambda i: i > 5, range(10)):
> >> >     print i
>
> >> > but
>
> >> > for i in range(10):
> >> >     if i > 5:
> >> >         print i
>
> >> > it' better readable, and
>
> >> > for i in range(6,10):
> >> >     print i
>
> >> > it's event better.
>
> >> How about using a generator expression instead of a list?
>
> >>   for i in (x for x in range(10) if x > 5):
> >>       print i
>
> >> -John
>
> > Indeed, but we could have the same syntax than for generators but
> > directly in the for statement as in
> > for variable in generator if condition:
> >    body
>
> > Is there a special reason for not doing so ? A rejected PEP ?
>
> It's not been added since it's completely unnecessary (see the several
> alternatives already presented by others).
> There have been a few other mailinglist threads on adding essentially
> the same syntax. None have proved fruitful.
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --http://blog.rebertia.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Tx Chris for your reply !

i am still a bit puzzle by the following.

I read in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Python_syntax_and_semantics#Generators

"""Python 3.0 unifies all collection types by introducing dict and set
comprehensions, similar to list comprehensions:

>>> [ n*n for n in range(5) ] # regular list comprehension
[0, 1, 4, 9, 16]
>>>
>>> { n*n for n in range(5) } # set comprehension
{0, 1, 4, 16, 9}
>>>
>>> { n: n*n for n in range(5) } # dict comprehension
{0: 0, 1: 1, 2: 4, 3: 9, 4: 16}
"""
and we can add to this list the quite similar syntax for generator
expressions.

On all these loop constructs, one can consistenly add filtering on a
condition by adding an "if ..." after the "for ... in ..." part (and
it looks to me difficult to argue, for instance, that we should not
allow filtering for dict comprehesion because we could get the same
result by some other construct)

If the "if ..." part after the "for ... in ..." is so much used in all
these list/dict/set comprehensions and in the generator expressions,
it makes sense to me to have it also for the "for as a statement"
syntax :
[ n*n for n in range(10) if n%3 == 0]
{ n*n for n in range(10) if n%3 == 0}
{ n: n*n for n in range(10) if n%3 == 0}
( n*n for n in range(10) if n%3 == 0)
for n in range(10) if n%3 == 0:
  print n*n

In fact, we often see the list comprehension [ n*n for n in range(10)
if n%3 == 0] explained as being equivalent to
l = []
for n in range(10):
  if n%3 == 0:
    l.append(n)

We could as consistenly explain that the syntax

for n in range(10) if n%3==0:
  body

means

for n in range(10):
  if n%3==0:
    body

This syntax has also the benefit of avoiding an extra level of
indentation (the one for the if) that bears no real meaning on a
structural level.

Maybe a PEP could do the job...

S?bastien


From sdementen at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 13:30:15 2009
From: sdementen at gmail.com (seb)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 10:30:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: conditional for-statement
References:  
	
	
	
Message-ID: <40ae96a4-6f86-4daa-a06b-5556339cb032@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 24, 12:05?am, Mel  wrote:
> seb wrote:
> > On Aug 23, 6:18 pm, John Posner  wrote:
> [ ... ]
> >> How about using a generator expression instead of a list?
>
> >> for i in (x for x in range(10) if x > 5):
> >> print i
>
> >> -John
>
> > Indeed, but we could have the same syntax than for generators but
> > directly in the for statement as in
> > for variable in generator if condition:
> > ? ? body
>
> > Is there a special reason for not doing so ? A rejected PEP ?
>
> Well, the Zen of Python does say
>
> There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it.
>
> Beyond that, I refer you to Gerald M. Weinberg's _The Psychology of Computer
> Programming_, specifically chapters 11 and 12, about Programming Languages,
> and their design.
>
> The proposal creates an case where one particular pair of syntactic
> constructs can be mooshed together. ?OK for them, but everything else
> becomes an exception; what about
>
> while a==c if b != d:
>
> why not
>
> if b != d while a==c:
>

what would be the unambiguous meaning of any of these forms ?
they could be interesting but I do not understand them (yet!).


> or
>
> for a in range(7) if os.name == 'posix':
>
> It winds up burdening the programmers with remembering which constructs are
> and which are not mooshable. ?Weinberg gave an example: FORTRAN had some
> stringent rules for what expressions were and were not allowed as array
> subscripts. ?The result was that many programmers couldn't remember all the
> rules, and often avoided using legal forms, having forgotten they were
> legal.

indeed, the language features should stay as orthogonal as possible
(at least as a general rule)

>
> Maybe the line was already crossed when list comprehensions came into being,
> still, the damage is localized in a particular context: building a list. ?It
> isn't out creating wild options in the program control flow at large.
>

indeed and it proved to be very useful & successful.
one cannot recommend to mix all features together as a general rule
but using common sense and practice, we can have some exceptions that
are definitely worth.

> ? ? ? ? Mel.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -



From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Tue Aug 25 13:53:46 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 19:53:46 +0200
Subject: Web Services examples using "raw" xml?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<4a936e84$0$31337$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
	
Message-ID: <4a94252a$0$31870$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>

John Gordon wrote:
> Any suggestions?

Well, yes, see the link I posted.

http://effbot.org/zone/element-soap.htm

That might actually be the easiest way to get your stuff done, and it
avoids external dependencies (well, except for ElementTree, if you continue
to use Python <= 2.4).

Stefan


From jjposner at optimum.net  Tue Aug 25 14:11:32 2009
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:11:32 -0400
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A942954.7070702@optimum.net>

Diez said:
>
> Classes are not scopes. 
>
> So the above doesn't work because name resolution inside functions/methods
> looks for local variables first, then for the *global* scope. There is no
> class-scope-lookup.

But http://docs.python.org/tutorial/classes.html says, in Section 9.3 "A 
First Look at Classes":

When a class definition is entered, a new namespace is created,
and used as the local scope ? thus, all assignments to local variables
go into this new namespace. In particular, function definitions bind
the name of the new function here.


The following example confirms this:

class Spam(object):
clsvar_1 = 555
clsvar_2 = clsvar_1 + 222

def __init__(self):
print "Spam instance initialized"

sp = Spam()
print sp.clsvar_1, sp.clsvar_2

output:
Spam instance initialized
555 777


Does the OP (kj) have a legitimate gripe, though? I confess that I know 
nothing about Python's implementation -- I'm strictly a user. So it's 
just a suspicion of mine that
something special enables a recursive function definition to refer to 
the function's own name before the definition has been completed. It 
works at the module-namespace (i.e. global) level, and Diez's "toy 
example" shows that it works at function-namespace level:

    class Demo(object):

        def fact(n):
            def inner(n):
                if n < 2:
                    return 1
                else:
                    return n * inner(n - 1)
            return inner(n)

        _classvar = fact(5)


So why can't it work at the class-namespace level, too?

(BTW, Diez, your toy example is another demonstration that there *is* a 
class-scope-lookup: the "def" statement binds the name "fact" in the 
class scope, and the assignment statement looks up the name "fact" in 
that scope.)

-John



From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 14:17:49 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 11:17:49 -0700
Subject: conditional for-statement
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

> We could as consistenly explain that the syntax
>
> for n in range(10) if n%3==0:
>   body
>
> means
>
> for n in range(10):
>   if n%3==0:
>     body
>
> This syntax has also the benefit of avoiding an extra level of
> indentation (the one for the if) that bears no real meaning on a
> structural level.
>

I'm sorry, I don't see what you mean about avoiding the extra level of  
indentation? I can see a very real structural and logical distinction that  
the if-block makes, and IMO it's a good thing that that needs to be set  
apart.

On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 10:25:27 -0700, seb  wrote:

>
> Tx Chris for your reply !
>
> i am still a bit puzzle by the following.
>
> I read in  
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Python_syntax_and_semantics#Generators
>
> """Python 3.0 unifies all collection types by introducing dict and set
> comprehensions, similar to list comprehensions:
>
>>>> [ n*n for n in range(5) ] # regular list comprehension
> [0, 1, 4, 9, 16]
>>>>
>>>> { n*n for n in range(5) } # set comprehension
> {0, 1, 4, 16, 9}
>>>>
>>>> { n: n*n for n in range(5) } # dict comprehension
> {0: 0, 1: 1, 2: 4, 3: 9, 4: 16}
> """
> and we can add to this list the quite similar syntax for generator
> expressions.
>
> On all these loop constructs, one can consistenly add filtering on a
> condition by adding an "if ..." after the "for ... in ..." part (and
> it looks to me difficult to argue, for instance, that we should not
> allow filtering for dict comprehesion because we could get the same
> result by some other construct)
>
> If the "if ..." part after the "for ... in ..." is so much used in all
> these list/dict/set comprehensions and in the generator expressions,
> it makes sense to me to have it also for the "for as a statement"
> syntax :
> [ n*n for n in range(10) if n%3 == 0]
> { n*n for n in range(10) if n%3 == 0}
> { n: n*n for n in range(10) if n%3 == 0}
> ( n*n for n in range(10) if n%3 == 0)
> for n in range(10) if n%3 == 0:
>   print n*n
>
> In fact, we often see the list comprehension [ n*n for n in range(10)
> if n%3 == 0] explained as being equivalent to
> l = []
> for n in range(10):
>   if n%3 == 0:
>     l.append(n)
>
> We could as consistenly explain that the syntax
>
> for n in range(10) if n%3==0:
>   body
>
> means
>
> for n in range(10):
>   if n%3==0:
>     body
>
> This syntax has also the benefit of avoiding an extra level of
> indentation (the one for the if) that bears no real meaning on a
> structural level.
>
> Maybe a PEP could do the job...
>
> S?bastien



-- 
Rami Chowdhury
"Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --  
Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Tue Aug 25 14:25:19 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 11:25:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: basic thread question
References: <20090818201015.GP20434@dragontoe.org>
	 
	<4a922086$0$1619$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>  
	
	 
	<4224e772-5b67-4eea-9bdf-a7d2bf7cc128@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> 
	
	<864e2d5f-0855-4f35-a78c-b09054e75f0d@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On 25 Aug, 13:33, Piet van Oostrum  wrote:

> I have heard about that also, but is there a Python implementation that
> uses this? (Just curious, I am not using Windows.)

On Windows we have three different versions of Python 2.6:

* Python 2.6 for Win32/64 (from python.org) does not have os.fork.

* Python 2.6 for Cygwin has os.fork, but it is non-COW and sluggish.

* Python 2.6 for SUA has a fast os.fork with copy-on-write.

You get Python 2.6.2 for SUA prebuilt by Microsoft from http://www.interopsystems.com.

Using Python 2.6 for SUA is not without surprices: For example, the
process is not executed from the Win32 subsystem, hence the Windows
API is inaccessible. That means we cannot use native Windows GUI.
Instead we must run an X11 server on the Windows subsystem (e.g. X-
Win32), and use the Xlib SUA has installed. You can compare SUA to a
stripped down Linux distro, on which you have to build and install
most of the software you want to use. I do not recommend using Python
for SUA instead of Python for Windows unless you absolutely need a
fast os.fork or have a program that otherwise requires Unix. But for
running Unix apps on Windows, SUA is clearly superior to Cygwin.
Licencing is also better: Programs compiled against Cygwin libraries
are GPL (unless you buy a commercial license). Program compiled
against SUA libraries are not.



Sturla Molden


From nospam at nospam.com  Tue Aug 25 14:30:27 2009
From: nospam at nospam.com (Gilles Ganault)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:30:27 +0200
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
References: 
	<20090825132439.d6cb18ca.feliphil@gmx.net>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:24:39 +0200, Wolfgang Keller 
wrote:
>The area of _desktop_ database application development indeed looks like a vast and very hostile desert in the Python landscape.
>
>The only framework that seems to be worth trying is Dabo. Unfortunately there's little documentation, and that's mostly outdated.
>
>There's also Kiwi, but that's even less well documented.
>
>And GNU Enterprise essentially seems to be dead.

Combined with the comment above about issues with printing, it looks
like Python for GUI apps isn't a very good idea :-/

I'd be interested in checking out commercial applications written in
Python for the Windows OS, if there are any.

Thank you.


From bbxx789_05ss at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 25 14:36:46 2009
From: bbxx789_05ss at yahoo.com (7stud)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 11:36:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References:  
	
Message-ID: <62d4c548-c45f-4345-b9b2-42a7ba7a309a@g1g2000pra.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 25, 12:11?pm, John Posner  wrote:
> Diez said:
>
>
>
> > Classes are not scopes.
>
> > So the above doesn't work because name resolution inside functions/methods
> > looks for local variables first, then for the *global* scope. There is no
> > class-scope-lookup.
>
> Buthttp://docs.python.org/tutorial/classes.htmlsays, in Section 9.3 "A
> First Look at Classes":
>
> When a class definition is entered, a new namespace is created,
> and used as the local scope ? thus, all assignments to local variables
> go into this new namespace. In particular, function definitions bind
> the name of the new function here.
>
> The following example confirms this:
>
> class Spam(object):
> clsvar_1 = 555
> clsvar_2 = clsvar_1 + 222
>
> def __init__(self):
> print "Spam instance initialized"
>
> sp = Spam()
> print sp.clsvar_1, sp.clsvar_2
>
> output:
> Spam instance initialized
> 555 777
>
> Does the OP (kj) have a legitimate gripe, though? I confess that I know


I guess a counter example would be something like this:

y = "hello"

class Demo(object):
    y = "goodbye"

    def __init__(self):
        self.x = 10
        print y

Demo()

--output:--
hello


>
> nothing about Python's implementation -- I'm strictly a user. So it's
> just a suspicion of mine that
> something special enables a recursive function definition to refer to
> the function's own name before the definition has been completed.
>

python ignores the names inside a function when it creates the
function.  This "program" will not produce an error:


def f():
    print x

python parses the file and creates the function object and assigns the
function object to the variable f.  It's not until you execute the
function that python will raise an error.  The same thing happens with
the recursive function.




From david at boddie.org.uk  Tue Aug 25 14:37:35 2009
From: david at boddie.org.uk (David Boddie)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:37:35 +0200
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
References: 
	<20090825132439.d6cb18ca.feliphil@gmx.net>
Message-ID: 

On Tuesday 25 August 2009 13:24, Wolfgang Keller wrote:

> The area of _desktop_ database application development indeed looks like a
> vast and very hostile desert in the Python landscape.
> 
> The only framework that seems to be worth trying is Dabo. Unfortunately
> there's little documentation, and that's mostly outdated.
> 
> There's also Kiwi, but that's even less well documented.
> 
> And GNU Enterprise essentially seems to be dead.

There's also Camelot, if that's the kind of thing you're after:

  http://www.conceptive.be/projects/camelot

David


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Tue Aug 25 14:39:14 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 11:39:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Putting together a larger matrix from smaller matrices
References: <0si695db7bm7rfelo9iud89d8vda32176r@4ax.com>
	<95-dnVK31vsFnQnXnZ2dnUVZ_qmdnZ2d@pdx.net> 
	
Message-ID: <7df5f26b-5f31-4e93-b873-946c99d9a5e4@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On 25 Aug, 17:37, Matjaz Bezovnik  wrote:

> Scott, thank you very much for the snippet.
>
> It is exactly what I looked for; simple to read and obvious as to what
> it does even a month later to a non-pythonist!


Since you were talking about matrices, observe that numpy has a matrix
subclass of ndarray, which e.g. changes the meaning of the * operator
mean indicate matrix multiplication. Thus,

>>> import numpy as np
>>> np.eye(4)
array([[ 1.,  0.,  0.,  0.],
       [ 0.,  1.,  0.,  0.],
       [ 0.,  0.,  1.,  0.],
       [ 0.,  0.,  0.,  1.]])
>>> np.matrix(np.eye(4))
matrix([[ 1.,  0.,  0.,  0.],
        [ 0.,  1.,  0.,  0.],
        [ 0.,  0.,  1.,  0.],
        [ 0.,  0.,  0.,  1.]])

>>> a = np.ones((4,4))
>>> a*a
array([[ 1.,  1.,  1.,  1.],
       [ 1.,  1.,  1.,  1.],
       [ 1.,  1.,  1.,  1.],
       [ 1.,  1.,  1.,  1.]])
>>> b = np.matrix(a)
>>> b*b
matrix([[ 4.,  4.,  4.,  4.],
        [ 4.,  4.,  4.,  4.],
        [ 4.,  4.,  4.,  4.],
        [ 4.,  4.,  4.,  4.]])
>>> b**2
matrix([[ 4.,  4.,  4.,  4.],
        [ 4.,  4.,  4.,  4.],
        [ 4.,  4.,  4.,  4.],
        [ 4.,  4.,  4.,  4.]])
>>> b**4
matrix([[ 64.,  64.,  64.,  64.],
        [ 64.,  64.,  64.,  64.],
        [ 64.,  64.,  64.,  64.],
        [ 64.,  64.,  64.,  64.]])

In Matlab, you use .* vs. * and .^ vs. ^ to obtain the same effect. In
NumPy we use different classes for arrays and matrices.



Sturla Molden





From robert.kern at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 14:42:31 2009
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:42:31 -0500
Subject: Putting together a larger matrix from smaller matrices
In-Reply-To: <0si695db7bm7rfelo9iud89d8vda32176r@4ax.com>
References: <0si695db7bm7rfelo9iud89d8vda32176r@4ax.com>
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-24 21:30 PM, Matjaz Bezovnik wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> I'm but a layman so do not take offence at this maybe over simple
> question.
>
> This is something which is done often in FEM methods, and the alike.
>
> I have matrix A of 3x3 elements, and B, of the same number of
> elements, 3x3.
>
> What would be the most obvious way to assemble a matrix which:
> a11 a12 a13
> a21 a22 a23
> a31 a32 a33+b11 b12 b13
>                        b21 b22 b23
>                        b31 b32 b33
>
> (the missing elements = zero)
>
> (you see the pattern - if there was a third matrix C, it would
> "connect" to b33 on the main diagonal)

You will certainly want to use numpy for this and ask questions on the numpy 
mailing list.

   http://www.scipy.org/Mailing_Lists

I believe that someone recently posted a recipe for constructing such "block 
diagonal" arrays. I think it will be included in a future release of numpy.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From thebiggestbangtheory at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 14:42:31 2009
From: thebiggestbangtheory at gmail.com (nickname)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 11:42:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: os.popen output different from native shell output
References: <8119e546-b54d-4e72-b8b7-d1f3d104670f@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 25, 6:16?am, Nobody  wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 01:36:08 -0700, nickname wrote:
> > ? ? ? ?I am a relative newbie to python, I am using os.popen to run an
> > ls command. The output that I get using the read() function is
> > different in look and feel from when I run the ls command natively
> > from the shell (not via python).
>
> As others have pointed out, the default behaviour of ls is different if
> its output is a terminal.
>
> > Is there an easy way to "mirror" the output. When python displays the
> > output, how can it tell the bash shell that some of the entries are
> > directories and they should appear blue on the bash shell, and that
> > everything should not be appearing on 1 column only.
>
> You can get the terminal-style behaviour even when using a pipe with:
>
> ? ? ? ? ls -x --color
>
> But why are you reading this information into Python then writing it
> back out to the terminal?
>
> If you're planning on processing the output within Python, both the
> multi-column format and the escape sequences used for colour will make
> such processing awkward.
>
> If you want to enumerate the contents of a directory within Python, use
> os.listdir().
>
> If you want to generate coloured output, use the curses module, e.g.:
>
> #!/usr/bin/env python
>
> import sys
> import curses
>
> curses.setupterm()
> setaf = curses.tigetstr('setaf') or ""
> setab = curses.tigetstr('setab') or ""
> origp = curses.tigetstr('op') or ""
>
> def fg(c):
> ? ? sys.stdout.write(curses.tparm(setaf, c))
>
> def bg(c):
> ? ? sys.stdout.write(curses.tparm(setab, c))
>
> def orig():
> ? ? sys.stdout.write(origp)
>
> # example
> bg(curses.COLOR_BLUE)
> fg(curses.COLOR_YELLOW)
> print "hello, world"
> orig()

wow guys! thanks for all the great leads! this is awesome!

The reason why I want to do this is because I am going to do a little
project. I will write a python script called ls which will log the
time and username and then will show the actual ls output. I want this
to be transparent and so want to throw the ls output (via python)
exactly as it will be in native shell execution.

I know there's history files I can look up, but I just am exploring my
own intermediate-logging-layer the functionality for which is executed
right before the actual command is executed.

Thanks,
-A


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Tue Aug 25 14:44:11 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 11:44:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
References: 
	<20090825132439.d6cb18ca.feliphil@gmx.net> 
	
Message-ID: 

On 25 Aug, 20:30, Gilles Ganault  wrote:

> Combined with the comment above about issues with printing, it looks
> like Python for GUI apps isn't a very good idea :-/

With pywin32, printing is the same as for any other Windows app (you
get MFC for Python).



From mensanator at aol.com  Tue Aug 25 14:45:28 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 11:45:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
References:  
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com> 
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
	
	
	<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com> 
	
	
	
	
	<02a31f91$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<44bcb727-0885-4d4f-9c11-ca60a39b0d91@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<02a3e1e2$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 25, 9:14?am, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:01:38 -0700, Mensanator wrote:
> >> If you want your data file to have values entered in hex, or oct, or
> >> even unary (1=one, 11=two, 111=three, 1111=four...) you can.
>
> > Unary? I think you'll find that Standard Positional Number Systems are
> > not defined for radix 1.
>
> Of course not. But unary isn't a positional number system. It's a tally
> system, like my example above shows. Roman numerals are another tally
> system. Like Roman numerals, the disadvantages of unary are that you
> can't represent negative numbers, zero, or fractions, and anything but
> addition and subtraction is difficult. But if you want to use it, perhaps
> out of a sense of sadism towards your users, it's easy:
>
> def int2unary(n):
> ? ? return '1'*n
>
> def unary2int(s):
> ? ? n = 0
> ? ? for c in s:
> ? ? ? ? if c == '1': n+=1
> ? ? ? ? else: raise ValueError('invalid unary string')
> ? ? return n

But without insignificant leading 0's, I fail to see the relevance
of unary to this discussion. And what would you call a tally system
of radix 2? Certainly not binary.

>
> --
> Steven



From robert.kern at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 14:54:10 2009
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:54:10 -0500
Subject: your favorite debugging tool?
In-Reply-To: <87skfgeynf.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: 	<87vdkfiaki.fsf@benfinney.id.au>	
	<87skfgeynf.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-25 09:49 AM, Ben Finney wrote:
> Esmail  writes:
>
>> Hi Ben,
>>
>> Ben Finney wrote:
>>>
>>> Whenever a simple output statement is too cumbersome for debugging, I
>>> take it as a sign that the program is too cumbersome to follow.
>>
>> I'll have to think about this .. though my gut says this is true :-)
>
> Note that it's only a sign, *not* an ironclad guarantee. But it's the
> right way to bet, IME.
>
>> re your other point about the interactive shell, I agree it's useful,
>> but to me still doesn't quite do what a full-fledged debugger can -
>> but perhaps that is a reflection of my skill with the shell at this
>> point.
>
> This, on the other hand, I find even more consistent: if the code can't
> be effectively inspected from the interactive interpreter, that's a sure
> sign that its external interfaces are poor or its internal dependencies
> too tightly coupled; or more likely both.

And a debugger is a great tool to help you figure out exactly why your code 
doesn't actually have the wonderful decoupling that you thought you designed 
into it so you can fix it. :-)

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Tue Aug 25 14:54:21 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 11:54:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
References: 
	<20090825132439.d6cb18ca.feliphil@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <7d48a1c7-b406-499e-a0e1-3c7d3b91d8a0@k30g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>

On 25 Aug, 13:24, Wolfgang Keller  wrote:

> The area of _desktop_ database application development indeed looks like a vast and very hostile desert in the Python landscape.

Yes, you don't have drag-and-drop database tools like MS Access or
FoxPro. You actually have to use a database API (such as pyodbc or
pymssql) with GUI (tkinter, wxPython, PyGTK, PyQt, MFC) manually. If
you need a framework for this, you should not be developing software
anyway.



From robert.kern at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 14:55:28 2009
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:55:28 -0500
Subject: your favorite debugging tool?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<57d65219-8134-4c2e-9739-825a5ef450d0@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-25 06:57 AM, Esmail wrote:
> Michele Simionato wrote:
>> On Aug 22, 4:25 pm, Esmail  wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> What is your favorite tool to help you debug your
>>> code?
>>
>> The times when I would just use 'print' are long past. Nowadays I
>> spend lots of my time
>> with code written by others than myself. I use pdb all the time, and
>> now also ipdb
>> (ipdb is very cool if you are used to ipython).
>
> Never heard of ipdb, I'll have to check it out.

It's not really a separate thing, just the pdb integration into the IPython 
interactive shell (which I highly recommend that you check out).

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From guettli at thomas-guettler.de  Tue Aug 25 14:57:59 2009
From: guettli at thomas-guettler.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:57:59 +0200
Subject: os.popen output different from native shell output
In-Reply-To: 
References: <8119e546-b54d-4e72-b8b7-d1f3d104670f@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <7fiqhnF2l2bs6U1@mid.individual.net>

In one of the first chapters of "Advanced programming in the unix
environment (second edition)" there is explained how a unix shell works.

You could write you own shell using python. This way the python
interpreter gets stared only once, and not for every call to "ls".



Have fun,
  Thomas

nickname schrieb:
> wow guys! thanks for all the great leads! this is awesome!
> 
> The reason why I want to do this is because I am going to do a little
> project. I will write a python script called ls which will log the
> time and username and then will show the actual ls output. I want this
> to be transparent and so want to throw the ls output (via python)
> exactly as it will be in native shell execution.


From travis at subspacefield.org  Tue Aug 25 15:16:59 2009
From: travis at subspacefield.org (travis at subspacefield.org)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:16:59 -0500
Subject: proposal: add setresuid() system call to python
In-Reply-To: <87d46kdp0v.fsf@busola.homelinux.net>
References: <20090717200141.GI6065@subspacefield.org>
	<148918f0907171315i4ed5b274v77581a43c4464f8f@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<7cj89qF27mfrjU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<877hy38mxw.fsf@busola.homelinux.net>
	<20090821205040.GK1215@subspacefield.org>
	<87d46kdp0v.fsf@busola.homelinux.net>
Message-ID: <20090825191659.GL1215@subspacefield.org>

On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 03:03:12PM +0200, Hrvoje Niksic wrote:
> You should use ctypes.get_errno() instead of os.errno; sorry about that.
> 
> Also, when raising OSError, you should set the 'errno' attribute to the
> appropriate code.

How does that compare to:

raise pythonapi.PyErr_SetFromErrno(py_object(OSError))

?
-- 
Obama Nation | My emails do not have attachments; it's a digital signature
that your mail program doesn't understand. | http://www.subspacefield.org/~travis/ 
If you are a spammer, please email john at subspacefield.org to get blacklisted.
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From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Aug 25 15:19:33 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 25 Aug 2009 12:19:33 -0700
Subject: Waiting for a subprocess to exit
References: <873a7l21gr.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
Miles Kaufmann   wrote:
>
>debacle[1]).  Leaving shell=3DFalse makes scripts more secure and =20
>robust; besides, when I'm putting together a command and its =20
>arguments, it's as convenient to build a list (['mycmd', 'myarg']) as =20=
>
>it is a string (if not more so).

....unless you want to use "~" on Mac or Unix.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I support family values -- Addams family values" --www.nancybuttons.com


From jason at nospam.org  Tue Aug 25 15:21:25 2009
From: jason at nospam.org (jason)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:21:25 -0600
Subject: Simple IRC library
References: <752884c5-c6fb-4974-a21a-bf3017fa4145@y4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2009082513212516807-jason@nospamorg>

On 2009-08-24 01:39:21 -0600, devaru  said:

> Hi all,
> I am new to Python language. I want to capture(either in database or a
> file) the conversation in IRC.

Fed.

> Please suggest me some simple IRC library or code snippet for this.

I have used the oyoyo library with success. It's pretty nice and has a 
framework for bots which you might be interested in looking at.

http://code.google.com/p/oyoyo/



From jjposner at optimum.net  Tue Aug 25 15:31:48 2009
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:31:48 -0400
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A943C24.6090209@optimum.net>

7stud said:
> python ignores the names inside a function when it creates the
> function.  This "program" will not produce an error:
>
>
> def f():
>     print x
>
> python parses the file and creates the function object and assigns the
> function object to the variable f.  It's not until you execute the
> function that python will raise an error.  The same thing happens with
> the recursive function.
>   


Thanks for that explanation. So in the OP's example:

Class Demo(object):
    def fact(n):
        if n < 2:
            return 1
        else:
            return n * fact(n - 1)

    _classvar = fact(5)


... no failure occurs when "fact(5)" is invoked, because the lookup of 
"fact" in the local scope is a class-scope-lookup, which succeeds. The 
failure occurs on the first recursive invocation of fact() in the 
statement "return n * fact(n - 1)": the function-scope-lookup of "fact" 
fails, and then the interpreter falls back to a global-scope-lookup of 
"fact", which also fails.



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Aug 25 15:32:09 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 25 Aug 2009 12:32:09 -0700
Subject: Object Reference question
References: <2dcf41c3-6623-48d9-bb74-97f753088479@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
Hendrik van Rooyen   wrote:
>On Friday 21 August 2009 08:07:18 josef wrote:
>>
>> My main focus of this post is: "How do I find and use object reference
>> memory locations?"
>
>>>> a = [1,2,3,4]
>>>> id(a)
>8347088
>>>>  

Of course, that doesn't actually allow you to do anything...
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I support family values -- Addams family values" --www.nancybuttons.com


From evaned at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 15:33:51 2009
From: evaned at gmail.com (Evan Driscoll)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 12:33:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Context manager to temporarily change the variable of a register [aka
	write swap(a,b)]
Message-ID: <7c171ce3-56a7-482f-addd-c6c86441cba7@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>

(If you don't want to read the following, note that you can answer my
question by writing a swap function.)

I want to make a context manager that will temporarily change the
value of a variable within the scope of a 'with' that uses it. This is
inspired by a C++ RAII object I've used in a few projects. Ideally,
what I want is something like the following:

    x = 5
    print x   # prints 5
    with changed_value(x, 10):
        print x  # prints 10
    print x  # prints 5

This is similar to PEP 343's example 5 ("Redirect stdout temporarily";
see http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0343/), except that the
variable that I want to temporarily change isn't hard-coded in the
stdout_redirected function.

What I want to write is something like this:
    @contextmanager
    def changed_value(variable, temp_value):
        old_value = variable
        variable = temp_value
        try:
            yield None
        finally:
            variable = old_value
with maybe a check in 'finally' to make sure that the value hasn't
changed during the execution of the 'with'.

Of course this doesn't work since it only changes the binding of
'variable', not whatever was passed in, and I kind of doubt I can
stick a "&" and "*" in a couple places to make it do what I want. :-)

So my question is: is what I want possible to do in Python? How?

I think it might be possible to rig something up by passing in the
variable that i want to change as a *string* and looking up that
string in a dictionary somewhere, but I think what I need is the locals
() dictionary of the calling function, and I'm not sure how to get
that.

Thanks,
Evan Driscoll


From garrickp at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 15:42:34 2009
From: garrickp at gmail.com (Falcolas)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 12:42:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: conditional for-statement
References:  
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 25, 11:25?am, seb  wrote:
> We could as consistenly explain that the syntax
>
> for n in range(10) if n%3==0:
> ? body
>
> means
>
> for n in range(10):
> ? if n%3==0:
> ? ? body
>
> This syntax has also the benefit of avoiding an extra level of
> indentation (the one for the if) that bears no real meaning on a
> structural level.
>
> Maybe a PEP could do the job...
>
> S?bastien

So, what part of the statement does the "if" statement belong to;
particularly a concern considering this is valid python:

for x in y if y else z:
    body

You can always do the following at the cost of 6 symbols, and the gain
of clarity:

for n in (x for x in y if y%3==0):
    body

~G


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Tue Aug 25 15:45:09 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:45:09 -0400
Subject: Python, qt, and lgpl
Message-ID: 

"
New LGPL Python bindings for Qt slither into the light

A new set of LGPL-licensed Python bindings for Qt has been announced. 
The project, which is backed by Nokia, will make it easier for 
commercial software developers to adopt Python and Qt for rapid 
application development."

http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/08/openbossa-announces-new-lgpl-python-bindings-for-qt.ars

Will be good news if realized.



From rurpy at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 25 15:45:49 2009
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 12:45:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: break unichr instead of fix ord?
Message-ID: <2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

In Python 2.5 on Windows I could do [*1]:

  # Create a unicode character outside of the BMP.
  >>> a = u'\U00010040'

  # On Windows it is represented as a surogate pair.
  >>> len(a)
  2
  >>> a[0],a[1]
  (u'\ud800', u'\udc40')

  # Create the same character with the unichr() function.
  >>> a = unichr (65600)
  >>> a[0],a[1]
  (u'\ud800', u'\udc40')

  # Although the unichr() function works fine, its
  # inverse, ord(), doesn't.
  >>> ord (a)
  TypeError: ord() expected a character, but string of length 2 found

On Python 2.6, unichr() was "fixed" (using the word
loosely) so that it too now fails with characters outside
the BMP.

  >>> a = unichr (65600)
  ValueError: unichr() arg not in range(0x10000) (narrow Python build)

Why was this done rather than changing ord() to accept a
surrogate pair?

Does not this effectively make unichr() and ord() useless
on Windows for all but a subset of unicode characters?


From emile at fenx.com  Tue Aug 25 15:48:41 2009
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 12:48:41 -0700
Subject: Context manager to temporarily change the variable of a register
	[aka   write swap(a,b)]
In-Reply-To: <7c171ce3-56a7-482f-addd-c6c86441cba7@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
References: <7c171ce3-56a7-482f-addd-c6c86441cba7@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On 8/25/2009 12:33 PM Evan Driscoll said...


> So my question is: is what I want possible to do in Python? 

Probably not with immutables (as in your example) -- maybe otherwise.

Emile



From sdementen at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 15:58:38 2009
From: sdementen at gmail.com (seb)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 12:58:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: conditional for-statement
References:  
	
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: <14afbe5a-62e7-4944-ab9d-42b86530ac41@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 25, 9:42?pm, Falcolas  wrote:
> On Aug 25, 11:25?am, seb  wrote:
>
>
>
> > We could as consistenly explain that the syntax
>
> > for n in range(10) if n%3==0:
> > ? body
>
> > means
>
> > for n in range(10):
> > ? if n%3==0:
> > ? ? body
>
> > This syntax has also the benefit of avoiding an extra level of
> > indentation (the one for the if) that bears no real meaning on a
> > structural level.
>
> > Maybe a PEP could do the job...
>
> > S?bastien

>
> So, what part of the statement does the "if" statement belong to;
> particularly a concern considering this is valid python:
>
> for x in y if y else z:
> ? ? body
>
can this be done in list/set/dict comprehensions/generator
expressions ?

> You can always do the following at the cost of 6 symbols, and the gain
> of clarity:
>
> for n in (x for x in y if y%3==0):
> ? ? body

it is in fact precisely to avoid this sort of line:
  for n in (x for x in y if x%3==0):
and have instead the (more readable IMO) line
  for n in y if n%3==0:
with:
 - 1 "for ... in ..." instead of 2 (where one is the repetition of the
other)
 - no parentheses
 - no extra technical variable with local binding to the expression
generator ('x')
it looks more pythonic to me but it is a personal taste.

>
> ~G



From evaned at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 16:07:13 2009
From: evaned at gmail.com (Evan Driscoll)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:07:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Context manager to temporarily change the variable of a register 
	[aka write swap(a,b)]
References: <7c171ce3-56a7-482f-addd-c6c86441cba7@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7c2c560f-d54c-492c-a847-e8ab079faea0@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 25, 2:33?pm, Evan Driscoll  wrote:
> I want to make a context manager that will temporarily change the
> value of a variable within the scope of a 'with' that uses it. This is
> inspired by a C++ RAII object I've used in a few projects. Ideally,
> what I want is something like the following:

Okay, so I think I actually got this with some consultation with a
friend. Critiques?

    from contextlib import contextmanager
    import inspect

    def get_parents_var(offset, var):
        f = inspect.stack()[offset][0]
        if var in f.f_locals:
                return f.f_locals[var]
        else:
                return f.f_globals[var]

    def set_parents_var(offset, var, val):
        f = inspect.stack()[offset][0]
        if var in f.f_locals:
            f.f_locals[var] = val
        elif var in f_globals:
            f.f_globals[var] = val
        else:
            assert False


    @contextmanager
    def changed_value_tb(var_name, temp_value):
        # 1 is here, 2 will be the implicit next() function, 3 is the
real caller
        offset = 3
        old_value = get_parents_var(offset, var_name)
        set_parents_var(offset, var_name, temp_value)
        try:
            yield None
        finally:
            set_parents_var(offset, var_name, old_value)


    x = 5
    print x   # prints 5
    with changed_value_tb("x", 10):
        print x  # prints 10
    print x  # prints 5


From deets at nospam.web.de  Tue Aug 25 16:10:00 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 22:10:00 +0200
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <7fiuooF2l2oogU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

John Posner schrieb:
> Diez said:
>>
>> Classes are not scopes.
>> So the above doesn't work because name resolution inside 
>> functions/methods
>> looks for local variables first, then for the *global* scope. There is no
>> class-scope-lookup.
> 
> But http://docs.python.org/tutorial/classes.html says, in Section 9.3 "A 
> First Look at Classes":
> 
> When a class definition is entered, a new namespace is created,
> and used as the local scope ? thus, all assignments to local variables
> go into this new namespace. In particular, function definitions bind
> the name of the new function here.
> 
> 
> The following example confirms this:
> 
> class Spam(object):
> clsvar_1 = 555
> clsvar_2 = clsvar_1 + 222
> 
> def __init__(self):
> print "Spam instance initialized"
> 
> sp = Spam()
> print sp.clsvar_1, sp.clsvar_2
> 
> output:
> Spam instance initialized
> 555 777
> 
> 
> Does the OP (kj) have a legitimate gripe, though? I confess that I know 
> nothing about Python's implementation -- I'm strictly a user. So it's 
> just a suspicion of mine that
> something special enables a recursive function definition to refer to 
> the function's own name before the definition has been completed. It 
> works at the module-namespace (i.e. global) level, and Diez's "toy 
> example" shows that it works at function-namespace level:
> 
>    class Demo(object):
> 
>        def fact(n):
>            def inner(n):
>                if n < 2:
>                    return 1
>                else:
>                    return n * inner(n - 1)
>            return inner(n)
> 
>        _classvar = fact(5)
> 
> 
> So why can't it work at the class-namespace level, too?

See my other post on what name lookup with class-scope *inside* 
functions would mean.

Diez


From deets at nospam.web.de  Tue Aug 25 16:14:48 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 22:14:48 +0200
Subject: Context manager to temporarily change the variable of a register
	[aka    write swap(a,b)]
In-Reply-To: <7c171ce3-56a7-482f-addd-c6c86441cba7@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
References: <7c171ce3-56a7-482f-addd-c6c86441cba7@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7fiv1oF2l2ejnU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Evan Driscoll schrieb:
> (If you don't want to read the following, note that you can answer my
> question by writing a swap function.)
> 
> I want to make a context manager that will temporarily change the
> value of a variable within the scope of a 'with' that uses it. This is
> inspired by a C++ RAII object I've used in a few projects. Ideally,
> what I want is something like the following:
> 
>     x = 5
>     print x   # prints 5
>     with changed_value(x, 10):
>         print x  # prints 10
>     print x  # prints 5
> 
> This is similar to PEP 343's example 5 ("Redirect stdout temporarily";
> see http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0343/), except that the
> variable that I want to temporarily change isn't hard-coded in the
> stdout_redirected function.
> 
> What I want to write is something like this:
>     @contextmanager
>     def changed_value(variable, temp_value):
>         old_value = variable
>         variable = temp_value
>         try:
>             yield None
>         finally:
>             variable = old_value
> with maybe a check in 'finally' to make sure that the value hasn't
> changed during the execution of the 'with'.
> 
> Of course this doesn't work since it only changes the binding of
> 'variable', not whatever was passed in, and I kind of doubt I can
> stick a "&" and "*" in a couple places to make it do what I want. :-)
> 
> So my question is: is what I want possible to do in Python? How?

No. And unfortunately, the with-statement (as the for-statement and 
others) leaks it's name, so you can't even use it like this:


with changed_value(variable, temp_value) as new_name:
    ...

The new_name will be defined afterwards.

Diez


From travis+ml-python at subspacefield.org  Tue Aug 25 16:15:35 2009
From: travis+ml-python at subspacefield.org (travis+ml-python at subspacefield.org)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:15:35 -0500
Subject: proposal: add setresuid() system call to python
In-Reply-To: <20090821201312.GJ1215@subspacefield.org>
References: <20090717200141.GI6065@subspacefield.org>
	<20090717205953.2543.1223422516.divmod.quotient.3129@henry.divmod.com>
	<20090821201312.GJ1215@subspacefield.org>
Message-ID: <20090825201535.GM1215@subspacefield.org>

On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 03:13:12PM -0500, travis at subspacefield.org wrote:
> Since the authors of the paper (Wagner et. al.) are proposing a new
> set of APIs to make all of this clearer, I'm thinking that I will
> create a module specifically for dropping permissions.

I've created the module here:

http://www.subspacefield.org/~travis/python/privilege/

I could sure use any comments people had on my python style.

PyPi link:
http://pypi.python.org/pypi/privilege/1.0
-- 
Obama Nation | My emails do not have attachments; it's a digital signature
that your mail program doesn't understand. | http://www.subspacefield.org/~travis/ 
If you are a spammer, please email john at subspacefield.org to get blacklisted.
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From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 16:16:24 2009
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:16:24 -0700
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: <4A942954.7070702@optimum.net>
References:  
	<4A942954.7070702@optimum.net>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c20908251316k2ebc304fk1422c96ddb4158c4@mail.gmail.com>

>
>
> But http://docs.python.org/tutorial/classes.html says, in Section 9.3 "A
> First Look at Classes":
>
> When a class definition is entered, a new namespace is created,
> and used as the local scope ? thus, all assignments to local variables
> go into this new namespace. In particular, function definitions bind
> the name of the new function here.
>
> [snip]

>
> (BTW, Diez, your toy example is another demonstration that there *is* a
> class-scope-lookup: the "def" statement binds the name "fact" in the class
> scope, and the assignment statement looks up the name "fact" in that scope.)
>

This sounds like a fundamental confusion -- a namespace is not equivalent to
a scope, really, I think.

The def statement creates a function object, and assigns it to the given
name, in its /local scope/ which is the class's namespace -- but that is not
a new scope. Its just, during class creation, the local scope.

When you enter a class definition, a new namespace is created, and that is
used as the local scope during the class's definition. Under "class Foo",
the local scope is this class's namespace-- and the global scope is the
module's namespace. Any lookup operation checks first in the local scope,
then in the global scope...

When the "def fact(...)" is executed (note that class bodies are executed on
load, function bodies aren't), a new namespace is created as well-- the
function's namespace-- and its used as the local scope. During execution of
the code, it looks up in the local scope first-- and then it looks up in the
global scope if it doesn't find anything. There /is/ no
class-lookup-scope... but there IS a class namespace.

There's just those two scopes: but the namespace bound to those scopes
changes as you enter different parts of the code.

For a long time that's all there was, just the local and global scope: to
access any other namespace required you to explicitly address it. The class
namespace remains accessible only via explicit addressing, but PEP 227 in
Python 2.1/2.2 introduced static nested scopes. But that applies only to
enclosing functions: embedding one function into another.

You can only call recursive functions if the function is able to refer to
itself according to the same lookup rules: is the function's name in the
local scope? No it's not... is it in the global scope? No? Then it can't
call itself recursively... well, unless its a method, and it addresses
itself specifically-- with "self.".

The OP's probably is that during the execution of the class body, the class
doesn't exist... so the 'def fact' -can't- use Classname.fact to address
itself explicitly, and within fact the locals don't contain a reference to
the function itself, and its globals don't either. You just can't do that.
The right way, IMHO, is to move 'fact' up and out of the class into a _fact
global variable. Alternatively, you can use a metaclass.

--S
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From evaned at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 16:24:08 2009
From: evaned at gmail.com (Evan Driscoll)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:24:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Context manager to temporarily change the variable of a register 
	[aka write swap(a,b)]
References: <7c171ce3-56a7-482f-addd-c6c86441cba7@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<7c2c560f-d54c-492c-a847-e8ab079faea0@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 25, 3:07?pm, Evan Driscoll  wrote:
> Okay, so I think I actually got this with some consultation with a
> friend. Critiques?

This is wrong; it's not quite working right. It does with the example
I posted, but not in a more thorough test.

I'm still ignoring the "you can't do this" answers for a little while
more and continuing to try to hack on it. :-)

Evan


From deets at nospam.web.de  Tue Aug 25 16:25:31 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 22:25:31 +0200
Subject: Context manager to temporarily change the variable of a register
	[aka write swap(a,b)]
In-Reply-To: <7c2c560f-d54c-492c-a847-e8ab079faea0@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: <7c171ce3-56a7-482f-addd-c6c86441cba7@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<7c2c560f-d54c-492c-a847-e8ab079faea0@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7fivlrF2lsrsuU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Evan Driscoll schrieb:
> On Aug 25, 2:33 pm, Evan Driscoll  wrote:
>> I want to make a context manager that will temporarily change the
>> value of a variable within the scope of a 'with' that uses it. This is
>> inspired by a C++ RAII object I've used in a few projects. Ideally,
>> what I want is something like the following:
> 
> Okay, so I think I actually got this with some consultation with a
> friend. Critiques?

Modifying locals isn't really allowed - it might stop working with 
certain implementations of python.

And to be honest - I don't really see a use-case for your whole 
approache. Why don't you want to introduce a new name?


Diez


From thebiggestbangtheory at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 16:32:57 2009
From: thebiggestbangtheory at gmail.com (nickname)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:32:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: os.popen output different from native shell output
References: <8119e546-b54d-4e72-b8b7-d1f3d104670f@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<7fiqhnF2l2bs6U1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 25, 11:57?am, Thomas Guettler 
wrote:
> In one of the first chapters of "Advanced programming in the unix
> environment (second edition)" there is explained how a unix shell works.
>
> You could write you own shell using python. This way the python
> interpreter gets stared only once, and not for every call to "ls".
>
> Have fun,
> ? Thomas
>
> nickname schrieb:
>
> > wow guys! thanks for all the great leads! this is awesome!
>
> > The reason why I want to do this is because I am going to do a little
> > project. I will write a python script called ls which will log the
> > time and username and then will show the actual ls output. I want this
> > to be transparent and so want to throw the ls output (via python)
> > exactly as it will be in native shell execution.
>
>

very good point, I will look it up :-)


From ebonak at hotmail.com  Tue Aug 25 16:33:53 2009
From: ebonak at hotmail.com (Esmail)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:33:53 -0400
Subject: your favorite debugging tool?
In-Reply-To: <87skfgeynf.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: 	<87vdkfiaki.fsf@benfinney.id.au>	
	<87skfgeynf.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: 

Ben Finney wrote:
> Esmail  writes:
> 
>> Hi Ben,
>>
>> Ben Finney wrote:
>>> Whenever a simple output statement is too cumbersome for debugging, I
>>> take it as a sign that the program is too cumbersome to follow.
>> I'll have to think about this .. though my gut says this is true :-)
> 
> Note that it's only a sign, *not* an ironclad guarantee. But it's the
> right way to bet, IME.

:-) .. I took it as a rule of thumb too .. I didn't meant to imply
anything more serious. These design guidelines help though.

Thanks,
Esmail




From garrickp at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 16:46:19 2009
From: garrickp at gmail.com (Falcolas)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:46:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: conditional for-statement
References:  
	
	
	
	
	 
	<14afbe5a-62e7-4944-ab9d-42b86530ac41@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4720bbf4-1be7-4f02-9869-df8e0cd9e221@y10g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 25, 1:58?pm, seb  wrote:
> On Aug 25, 9:42?pm, Falcolas  wrote:
> > On Aug 25, 11:25?am, seb  wrote:
> > So, what part of the statement does the "if" statement belong to;
> > particularly a concern considering this is valid python:
>
> > for x in y if y else z:
> > ? ? body
>
> can this be done in list/set/dict comprehensions/generator
> expressions ?

It's a statement, so anywhere you use a statement (such as in
generators and list comprehensions), it can exist. for ... in ... only
requires that the statement return an iterable, it doesn't matter what
statement you use to get there.

For example, the following is perfectly valid (if nonsensical - I
don't use ternary operators very often in my programming, so I don't
have many good examples of their use)

list = [x if x else y for x, y in iterable]

> it is in fact precisely to avoid this sort of line:
> ? for n in (x for x in y if x%3==0):
> and have instead the (more readable IMO) line
> ? for n in y if n%3==0:
> with:
> ?- 1 "for ... in ..." instead of 2 (where one is the repetition of the
> other)
> ?- no parentheses
> ?- no extra technical variable with local binding to the expression
> generator ('x')
> it looks more pythonic to me but it is a personal taste.
>

It doesn't feel clear to me, which is why I would have to disagree.
IIRC, these very filters are the main reason that list comprehensions,
and later one-line generators and dictionary comprehensions were
originally created: so you can filter the stream before acting on it.
One statement performs one action - very precise and understandable.

It's just my two cents, but I would not agree that adding a filter
keyword to for loops is required. Not when we have the filter
function, various types of comprehensions, and if statements which all
provide that very functionality.

~G


From evaned at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 16:47:17 2009
From: evaned at gmail.com (Evan Driscoll)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:47:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Context manager to temporarily change the variable of a register 
	[aka write swap(a,b)]
References: <7c171ce3-56a7-482f-addd-c6c86441cba7@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<7c2c560f-d54c-492c-a847-e8ab079faea0@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> 
	<7fivlrF2lsrsuU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 25, 3:25?pm, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
> Modifying locals isn't really allowed - it might stop working with
> certain implementations of python.
>
> And to be honest - I don't really see a use-case for your whole
> approache. Why don't you want to introduce a new name?

Wow, this actually was very helpful, because it forced me to clarify
what I'm doing to myself, and I *am* making it rather too complicated.

The reason that I can't introduce a new name is that I want to call
another function that refers to the old name. (Specifically, I'm using
this in a testing framework, and I want to mock out some things like
file I/O so want to replace 'open' and others temporarily. I don't
really want to make said function take an extra parameter which is
"the open function to use" or something like that.)

But then I don't need to modify locals. In fact, the references that I
want to affect are used in a function that isn't even on the stack
when the "with" statement is entered!

So I only need to modify a global, which is much easier than what I
was mucking about with.

So here is my simplified version that only works for globals:
    from contextlib import contextmanager

    @contextmanager
    def changed_value(var_name, temp_value):
        old_value = globals()[var_name]
        globals()[var_name] = temp_value
        try:
            yield None
        finally:
            globals()[var_name] = old_value


    x = 5
    print "5:", x
    with changed_value("x", 10):
        print "10:", x
    print "5:", x

    y = 7

    def test():
        print "5:", x
        with changed_value("x", 20):
            print "20:", x
            print "7:", y
        print "5:", x

    test()

    print "5:", x

How does that look?

And thanks for making me think about what I'm doing. :-)

Evan


From gbelov at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 16:51:14 2009
From: gbelov at gmail.com (Gleb Belov)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:51:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is it a bug?
Message-ID: <87b7ce88-1f2f-43ff-8096-6a95a89b6e27@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

Hey everyone! I'm quite new to Python and equally new to newsgroups in
general, so apologies if this makes no sense.

Basically, I was just exploring Python "arrays" on my own, since I
come from C++. What I did was:
>>> words = ["Hi!", "What's up?", "Bye!"]
>>> print words
['Hi!', "What's up?", 'Bye!']

I have two questions:
1) Is it possible and if so, how do I access each individual element?
Are there any indexes and what is the syntax?
2) I just noticed that the first and the last words in the output are
enclosed in single quotes, and the middle one is enclosed in double
quotes. Is it a bug? If not, why does the output work that way?

Alright, thanks in advance for any replies and I hope I'll manage to
actually find this topic...


From somebody at somewhere.com  Tue Aug 25 16:59:00 2009
From: somebody at somewhere.com (Stephen Fairchild)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 21:59:00 +0100
Subject: Is it a bug?
References: <87b7ce88-1f2f-43ff-8096-6a95a89b6e27@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Gleb Belov wrote:

> Hey everyone! I'm quite new to Python and equally new to newsgroups in
> general, so apologies if this makes no sense.
> 
> Basically, I was just exploring Python "arrays" on my own, since I
> come from C++. What I did was:
>>>> words = ["Hi!", "What's up?", "Bye!"]
>>>> print words
> ['Hi!', "What's up?", 'Bye!']
> 
> I have two questions:
> 1) Is it possible and if so, how do I access each individual element?
> Are there any indexes and what is the syntax?

For the first element:
>>> words[0]

> 2) I just noticed that the first and the last words in the output are
> enclosed in single quotes, and the middle one is enclosed in double
> quotes. Is it a bug? If not, why does the output work that way?

The output is valid python code. To represent with single quotes for the
second item, there would have to be a \ escape character for the
apostrophe.
-- 
Stephen Fairchild


From gbelov at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 17:12:47 2009
From: gbelov at gmail.com (Gleb Belov)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:12:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is it a bug?
References: <87b7ce88-1f2f-43ff-8096-6a95a89b6e27@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 26, 12:59?am, Stephen Fairchild  wrote:
> Gleb Belov wrote:
> > Hey everyone! I'm quite new to Python and equally new to newsgroups in
> > general, so apologies if this makes no sense.
>
> > Basically, I was just exploring Python "arrays" on my own, since I
> > come from C++. What I did was:
> >>>> words = ["Hi!", "What's up?", "Bye!"]
> >>>> print words
> > ['Hi!', "What's up?", 'Bye!']
>
> > I have two questions:
> > 1) Is it possible and if so, how do I access each individual element?
> > Are there any indexes and what is the syntax?
>
> For the first element:
>
> >>> words[0]
> > 2) I just noticed that the first and the last words in the output are
> > enclosed in single quotes, and the middle one is enclosed in double
> > quotes. Is it a bug? If not, why does the output work that way?
>
> The output is valid python code. To represent with single quotes for the
> second item, there would have to be a \ escape character for the
> apostrophe.
> --
> Stephen Fairchild

Oh, thank you! That makes sense! Should have thought of the escape
character issue...


From sdementen at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 17:19:31 2009
From: sdementen at gmail.com (seb)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:19:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: conditional for-statement
References:  
	
	
	
	
	 
	<14afbe5a-62e7-4944-ab9d-42b86530ac41@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> 
	<4720bbf4-1be7-4f02-9869-df8e0cd9e221@y10g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 25, 10:46?pm, Falcolas  wrote:
> On Aug 25, 1:58?pm, seb  wrote:
>
> > On Aug 25, 9:42?pm, Falcolas  wrote:
> > > On Aug 25, 11:25?am, seb  wrote:
> > > So, what part of the statement does the "if" statement belong to;
> > > particularly a concern considering this is valid python:
>
> > > for x in y if y else z:
> > > ? ? body
>
> > can this be done in list/set/dict comprehensions/generator
> > expressions ?
>
> It's a statement, so anywhere you use a statement (such as in
> generators and list comprehensions), it can exist. for ... in ... only
> requires that the statement return an iterable, it doesn't matter what
> statement you use to get there.
>

I never thought about this case...
Testing that in python 3.0, i see that

>>> [x for x in range(5) if False else range(10)]
SyntaxError: invalid syntax (, line 1)
>>> [x for x in (range(5) if False else range(10))]
[0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9]

hence, to avoid the ambiguity you mentionned (that already exists with
list comprehensions), one can use the parenthesis. This minor
incompatibility is referenced in http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0308/

> It doesn't feel clear to me, which is why I would have to disagree.
> IIRC, these very filters are the main reason that list comprehensions,
> and later one-line generators and dictionary comprehensions were
> originally created: so you can filter the stream before acting on it.
> One statement performs one action - very precise and understandable.

in my mind, I am thinking as you are but with 'loop' instead of
'stream'
"""so you can filter the 'loop' before acting on it. One statement
performs one action - very precise and understandable."""
and it doesn't look that dissimilar to your own reasoning.

>
> It's just my two cents, but I would not agree that adding a filter
> keyword to for loops is required. Not when we have the filter
> function, various types of comprehensions, and if statements which all
> provide that very functionality.
>
before having list comprehensions, we could also have said that
"""  I would not agree that adding a 'list comprehension' feature is
required. Not when we have the filter
     function, and the 'for+if' statements which all provide that very
functionality."""

How can unifying the "for ... in ..." statement with the "for ...
in ... if ..." syntax be detrimental ? It would be an inconsistence
less to remember, wouldn't it ?

cheers,

sebastien


From ryniek90 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 17:22:13 2009
From: ryniek90 at gmail.com (Ryniek90)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 23:22:13 +0200
Subject: TypeError: _getfullpathname() argument 1 must be (buffer overflow),
	not str in windows xp, while making tarfile
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A945605.1050105@gmail.com>

>
> Ryniek90 wrote:
>> Referring to my earlier posts:
>> http://groups.google.pl/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/4e34f995800f5352?hl=pl 
>>
>>
>> and
>>
>> http://groups.google.pl/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/abf5573b8fceb37e?hl=pl# 
>>
>>
>> I've dealt with those errors. but now have another.
>> When my backup scripts starts to backup chosen file, python gave me 
>> Traceback:
>>
>> "
>> C:\Users\Ryniek's WinSe7en\Documents\My 
>> Dropbox\Aplikacje\Moje_aplikacje\Pythonowe_aplikacje\Skrypty>python ba
>> ckuper.py -f F:\APLIKACJE\nowegg.exe F:\ MyGGBackup
>> Checking permissions for reading and writing...
>> Have permissions on [F:\APLIKACJE\nowegg.exe] for reading.
>> Have permissions on [F:\] for writing.
>> Preparing for backup [nowegg.exe]...
>> Starting backup...
>> Now adding [nowegg.exe]...
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>  File "backuper.py", line 197, in 
>>    main_meth()
>>  File "backuper.py", line 189, in main_meth
>>    paq.backup_file(pars.options.filename[0], 
>> pars.options.filename[1], pars.options.filename[2])
>>  File "backuper.py", line 127, in backup_file
>>    backup_obj.add(read_bin_obj)
>>  File "E:\WinSe7en Apps\APLIKACJE\ActiveState Python 
>> 2.6\lib\tarfile.py", line 1948, in add
>>    if self.name is not None and os.path.abspath(name) == self.name:
>>  File "E:\WinSe7en Apps\APLIKACJE\ActiveState Python 
>> 2.6\lib\ntpath.py", line 458, in abspath
>>    path = _getfullpathname(path)
>> TypeError: _getfullpathname() argument 1 must be (buffer overflow), 
>> not str
>> "
>>
>> I've searched over google, but found only that is bug in Python ( 
>> http://bugs.python.org/issue4071  - in that issue bug is inside 
>> Python 2.5.2 - i've got ActiveState Active Python with core Python 
>> 2.6.2), and another  info:   *http://tinyurl.com/lvyn7o  and 
>> **http://tinyurl.com/kn49vk
>> *
>>
>> Here's my script code:
>> *http://paste.ubuntu.com/259310/
>>
>> *Shouldn't that bug be patched already  :-?
> Are you giving it the contents of the file when it's actually expecting
> the filename?
>
>

Of course the content of the file:
"
C:\Users\Ryniek's WinSe7en\Documents\My 
Dropbox\Aplikacje\Moje_aplikacje\Pythonowe_aplikacje\Skrypty>python ba
ckuper.py -f F:\APLIKACJE\nowegg.exe F:\ MyGGBackup
Checking permissions for reading and writing...
Have permissions on [F:\APLIKACJE\nowegg.exe] for reading.
Have permissions on [F:\] for writing.
Preparing for backup [nowegg.exe]...
Starting backup...
Now adding [nowegg.exe]...
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "backuper.py", line 196, in 
    main_meth()
  File "backuper.py", line 188, in main_meth
    paq.backup_file(pars.options.filename[0], pars.options.filename[1], 
pars.options.filename[2])
  File "backuper.py", line 126, in backup_file
    backup_obj.add(read_obj.read())
  File "E:\WinSe7en Apps\APLIKACJE\ActiveState Python 
2.6\lib\tarfile.py", line 1948, in add
    if self.name is not None and os.path.abspath(name) == self.name:
  File "E:\WinSe7en Apps\APLIKACJE\ActiveState Python 
2.6\lib\ntpath.py", line 458, in abspath
    path = _getfullpathname(path)
TypeError: _getfullpathname() argument 1 must be (buffer overflow), not str
"

See? *backup_obj.add(read_obj.read())*
In previous pasted Traceback you can see *backup_obj.add(read_bin_obj)* 
- read_obj_bin was a reference to the *read_obj.read()* .

Do only I have this problem or Python programming under Windows is 
nightmare? 


From james.harris.1 at googlemail.com  Tue Aug 25 17:26:05 2009
From: james.harris.1 at googlemail.com (James Harris)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:26:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
References:  
	
	 
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com> 
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

On 24 Aug, 03:49, Dennis Lee Bieber  wrote:

...

> > Here's another suggested number literal format. First, keep the
> > familar 0x and 0b of C and others and to add 0t for octal. (T is the
> >thirdletter of octal as X is thethirdletter of hex.) The numbers
> > above would be
>
> ? ? ? ? The thing is -- "x" and "hex" have similar pronunciations: (h)ecks;
> the name of the radix is its own reminder for the character to use
> without thinking such conventions as "thirdletter of the radix name".
>
> ? ? ? ? But "t" (tee) has no pronunciation resemblance to "oct" (o'kt)
> whereas the unlovely "o" at least if taken as a short vowel sound is
> similar to the "o" of "oct" given the short stop between it and the
> "ct".
>
> > ? 0b1011, 0t7621, 0xc26b
>
> ? ? ? ? And "b" for binary breaks the "thirdletter of radix name"
> convention... You should be using "n" for that (and "c" for decimal )

I wasn't proposing a convention of using the third character of the
base name. I was saying that t is not too unreasonable given that we
use x for hex (rather than h).

>
> ? ? ? ? Or we use b, o, d, h (as the HP calculator) and drop the "x"
> version.
>
>
>
> > where the three characters "0.(" begin the sequence.
>
> ? ? ? ? Ugly...
>
> > Comments? Improvements?
>
> ? ? ? ? Retaining which ever character is finally decided, I'd make all
> radix specified literals follow a quoted format:
>
> ? ? ? ? "digits"radix
>
> ? ? ? ? "01110"b
> ? ? ? ? "123"d (of course, just 123 would be allowed for simplicity)
> ? ? ? ? "7C"x
> ? ? ? ? "327"o

The quoting is good. For hex, decimal, octal and binary, however, I
can't see a good reason to change away from the conventional prefix
form. And, in general, it's easier for a human to parse if the base is
specified first.

>
> ? ? ? ? Probably wouldn't need that much change to the parser as it would,
> left to right, see a string, and then when the string is not followed by
> one white space character, find a radix marker -- the parser would then
> parse the string using the specified radix, and emit the appropriate
> numeric value instead of a string value.

Maybe. I think, though, that having the base as prefix would make the
parser's job easier as well as the job of humans. It's easier if we
know what we are parsing before we parse it rather than afterwards.

> ? ? ? ?It only adds one extra
> character (instead of leading 0r, one has ""r), and the leading " serves
> as a warning to a reader that this is not directly readable as a number.
>
> ? ? ? ? The alternative syntax of radix"digits" is the same length, but adds
> to the parsing as it initially looks like a name entity, then hits the
> quote, and has to back up to interpret the result as a radix marker.

True. The beginning of a number should be numeric. Using your scheme,
though, instead of radix"digits" you could have 0radix"digits".

> 0r
> format starts as a number, hits a radix marker while the
> "conversion/accumulator" is still a 0 value (0 is 0 in all radix) and
> switches the converter to accept the digits in the specified radix.

Sounds like you are suggesting 0radix"digits" but I'm not sure.

>
> ? ? ? ? Whereas all prefix versions that don't start with a 0r tend to
> require more complex parsing:
>
> ? ? ? ? 0.(
>
> starts out looking like a number (the 0)... a floating point number (the
> .)... a function/method call on a floating point 0... WAIT? floating
> point numbers aren't callables (yet! I'm sure someone is going to show a
> way to define a variable bound to a number as a callable, though not to
> a literal number)... throw away this parse tree branch, back up and
> reparse as special numeric radix prefix...

You've laid it on thick but I agree in principle. What about
radix"digits" where radix is numeric: So 2"1101" or 3"122"? (Not to
replace 0b1101 etc but to supplement it for arbitrary bases.)

>
> ? ? ? ? Of course, one still has to consider what will be used for \
> character encoding... \x0F vs \013 vs \b0001111?

The plans I had did not allow for the suggestions above so I have no
comments on character encoding yet but it's good that you mentioned
it.

James


From pydecker at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 17:31:55 2009
From: pydecker at gmail.com (Peter Decker)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 17:31:55 -0400
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
In-Reply-To: <20090825132439.d6cb18ca.feliphil@gmx.net>
References: 
	<20090825132439.d6cb18ca.feliphil@gmx.net>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 7:24 AM, Wolfgang Keller wrote:

> The only framework that seems to be worth trying is Dabo. Unfortunately there's little documentation, and that's mostly outdated.

To be honest, that was my biggest concern when I tried Dabo. However,
after as small a learning curve as one could expect for any
non-trivial tool, it seemed that if I wasn't sure what a particular
way to do something was, the most obvious guess was almost always
correct. Contrast that with developing in wxPython, which has quite a
bit of documentation, which I constantly had to refer to, because the
confusing and inconsistent design.

There is a step by step guide on Google docs written by one of the
authors that is a very helpful approach to using Dabo. The authors are
also very active on the dabo-users list, and any questions are quickly
answered.

So I guess if you need a desktop framework in Python, I would strongly
urge you to check out Dabo and not let the volume of documentation
scare you off.

-- 

# p.d.


From jjposner at optimum.net  Tue Aug 25 17:56:51 2009
From: jjposner at optimum.net (John Posner)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 17:56:51 -0400
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A945E23.2060802@optimum.net>

Stephen Hansen said:
>
>
>     But http://docs.python.org/tutorial/classes.html says, in Section
>     9.3 "A First Look at Classes":
>
>     When a class definition is entered, a new namespace is created,
>     and used as the local scope ? thus, all assignments to local variables
>     go into this new namespace. In particular, function definitions bind
>     the name of the new function here.
>
> [snip] 
>
>
>     (BTW, Diez, your toy example is another demonstration that there
>     *is* a class-scope-lookup: the "def" statement binds the name
>     "fact" in the class scope, and the assignment statement looks up
>     the name "fact" in that scope.)
>
>
> This sounds like a fundamental confusion -- a namespace is not 
> equivalent to a scope, really, I think.

My apologies if I was being too loose with the terms "namespace" and 
"scope". I was trying to use Diez's terminology (e.g. 
"class-scope-lookup"). But I think you agree with me in *almost* 
everything you say below.

>
> The def statement creates a function object, and assigns it to the 
> given name, in its /local scope/ which is the class's namespace -- but 
> that is not a new scope. Its just, during class creation, the local scope.
>
> When you enter a class definition, a new namespace is created, and 
> that is used as the local scope during the class's definition. Under 
> "class Foo", the local scope is this class's namespace-- and the 
> global scope is the module's namespace. Any lookup operation checks 
> first in the local scope, then in the global scope... 
>
> When the "def fact(...)" is executed (note that class bodies are 
> executed on load, function bodies aren't), a new namespace is created 
> as well-- the function's namespace-- and its used as the local scope. 
> During execution of the code, it looks up in the local scope first-- 
> and then it looks up in the global scope if it doesn't find anything. 
> There /is/ no class-lookup-scope... but there IS a class namespace.
>
> There's just those two scopes: but the namespace bound to those scopes 
> changes as you enter different parts of the code. 
>
> For a long time that's all there was, just the local and global scope: 
> to access any other namespace required you to explicitly address it. 
> The class namespace remains accessible only via explicit addressing, 
> but PEP 227 in Python 2.1/2.2 introduced static nested scopes. But 
> that applies only to enclosing functions: embedding one function into 
> another.
>
> You can only call recursive functions if the function is able to refer 
> to itself according to the same lookup rules: is the function's name 
> in the local scope? No it's not... is it in the global scope? No? Then 
> it can't call itself recursively... well, unless its a method, and it 
> addresses itself specifically-- with "self.".

All of the above is consistent with my previous post.

>
> The OP's probably is that during the execution of the class body, the 
> class doesn't exist... so the 'def fact' -can't- use Classname.fact to 
> address itself explicitly, and within fact the locals don't contain a 
> reference to the function itself, and its globals don't either. You 
> just can't do that.

Here's where we disagree, and I'm sticking to my guns. The fact that the 
class definition has not been completely processed is irrelevant. The 
OP's problem was attempting to implement a recursive function. A 
non-recursive implementation of fact() works fine:

class ThisWorks(object):
    def fact(n):
        answer = 1
        i = 1
        while i <= n:
            answer *= i
            i += 1
        return answer

    clsvar = fact(4)

print ThisWorks.clsvar  # output: 24


> The right way, IMHO, is to move 'fact' up and out of the class ...

We're back to agreement on this point!

-John



From piet at cs.uu.nl  Tue Aug 25 17:57:21 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 23:57:21 +0200
Subject: conditional for-statement
References: 
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

>>>>> seb  (s) wrote:

>s> i am still a bit puzzle by the following.

>s> I read in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Python_syntax_and_semantics#Generators

>s> """Python 3.0 unifies all collection types by introducing dict and set
>s> comprehensions, similar to list comprehensions:

>>>>> [ n*n for n in range(5) ] # regular list comprehension
>s> [0, 1, 4, 9, 16]
>>>>> 
>>>>> { n*n for n in range(5) } # set comprehension
>s> {0, 1, 4, 16, 9}
>>>>> 
>>>>> { n: n*n for n in range(5) } # dict comprehension
>s> {0: 0, 1: 1, 2: 4, 3: 9, 4: 16}
>s> """
>s> and we can add to this list the quite similar syntax for generator
>s> expressions.

>s> On all these loop constructs, one can consistenly add filtering on a
>s> condition by adding an "if ..." after the "for ... in ..." part (and
>s> it looks to me difficult to argue, for instance, that we should not
>s> allow filtering for dict comprehesion because we could get the same
>s> result by some other construct)

You can also say:
[x+y for x in range(3) for y in range(4) if x < y]
If you want to write this as a loop you have to put the for's on
separate lines separated by colons, so why not the if also? Or would you
also like to have the for's on one line?
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Tue Aug 25 18:05:01 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 23:05:01 +0100
Subject: TypeError: _getfullpathname() argument 1 must be (buffer
	overflow), not str in windows xp, while making tarfile
In-Reply-To: <4A945605.1050105@gmail.com>
References: 
	<4A945605.1050105@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A94600D.60409@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Ryniek90 wrote:
>>
>> Ryniek90 wrote:
[snip]
>>> Here's my script code:
>>> *http://paste.ubuntu.com/259310/
>>>
>>> *Shouldn't that bug be patched already  :-?
>> Are you giving it the contents of the file when it's actually expecting
>> the filename?
>>
> 
> Of course the content of the file:
[snip]
> See? *backup_obj.add(read_obj.read())*
> In previous pasted Traceback you can see *backup_obj.add(read_bin_obj)* 
> - read_obj_bin was a reference to the *read_obj.read()* .
> 
The documentation lists the methods "add" and "addfile". Pick one and
provide the values it's expecting. For example, if you choose "add" then
provide the filename, not the contents of the file.

> Do only I have this problem or Python programming under Windows is 
> nightmare?

It's only a nightmare if you don't follow the documentation. :-)


From gbelov at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 18:14:26 2009
From: gbelov at gmail.com (Gleb Belov)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:14:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Help with arrays
Message-ID: 

Hello! I'm working on an exercise wherein I have to write a Guess The
Number game, but it's the computer who's guessing MY number. I can get
it to work, but there's one obvious problem: the computer generates
random numbers until one of them corresponds to my number, but it will
often generate one number (eg. 4) numerous times, meaning it doesn't
know that this number is invalid. What I mean is, it will sometimes
use 37 tries to guess a number out of 1 - 9, which makes no sense,
since it should only take 9 tries, at most. I was trying to find a way
to make a dynamic list of all the numbers the computer generates in
the loop and then make it re-generate the number if the previous
number is present in the list, so it doesn't keep on generating 4 (as
an example). I don't know if that makes sense... Basically, we humans
know that once something is incorrect, there's no point in trying to
use it as the answer next time, because we already know it's
incorrect. How do I go about coding this in Python? I'm still quite
new to the language so any help will be appreciated...


From philip at semanchuk.com  Tue Aug 25 18:21:46 2009
From: philip at semanchuk.com (Philip Semanchuk)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 18:21:46 -0400
Subject: Help with arrays
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <9AE5AB62-5991-4A6E-81EC-2AEE8BFE71F3@semanchuk.com>


On Aug 25, 2009, at 6:14 PM, Gleb Belov wrote:

> Hello! I'm working on an exercise wherein I have to write a Guess The
> Number game, but it's the computer who's guessing MY number. I can get
> it to work, but there's one obvious problem: the computer generates
> random numbers until one of them corresponds to my number, but it will
> often generate one number (eg. 4) numerous times, meaning it doesn't
> know that this number is invalid. What I mean is, it will sometimes
> use 37 tries to guess a number out of 1 - 9, which makes no sense,
> since it should only take 9 tries, at most. I was trying to find a way
> to make a dynamic list of all the numbers the computer generates in
> the loop and then make it re-generate the number if the previous
> number is present in the list, so it doesn't keep on generating 4 (as
> an example). I don't know if that makes sense... Basically, we humans
> know that once something is incorrect, there's no point in trying to
> use it as the answer next time, because we already know it's
> incorrect. How do I go about coding this in Python? I'm still quite
> new to the language so any help will be appreciated...

One cheap way to do it (not necessarily efficient) is to make a list  
of your possible guesses (e.g. range(1,10)), use random.shuffle() to  
put them in random order and then run through the guesses one at a time.

HTH
Philip


From farberow at wisc.edu  Tue Aug 25 18:34:10 2009
From: farberow at wisc.edu (Carrie Farberow)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 17:34:10 -0500
Subject: Python on Crays
In-Reply-To: <1f5c81d8-4f79-4eea-b1bd-af48ab9ddc82@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<1f5c81d8-4f79-4eea-b1bd-af48ab9ddc82@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6e80874a13151.4a942092@wiscmail.wisc.edu>

Ok, here are links to word documents outlining the commands I executed as well as the make.log file and the make_install.log file

instructions/commands:
https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/xythoswfs/webui/_xy-29018965_1-t_dSnfEm5b

make.log:
https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/xythoswfs/webui/_xy-29018966_1-t_zjqLuV5v
javascript:parent.send('smtp')
make_install.log:
https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/xythoswfs/webui/_xy-29018967_1-t_n8aqH2P

The issue referred to in the previous message (http://bugs.python.org/issue1594809) sounds similar - however I do not think that I can just build the shared unicodedata module and have it work properly, as I am trying to statically link the necessary modules.  I am very new with this, so if I am completely misunderstanding, please feel free to let me know.

Thanks!
Carrie

----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Dickinson 
Date: Friday, August 21, 2009 12:50 pm
Subject: Re: Python on Crays
To: python-list at python.org

> On Aug 21, 12:21?am, Carrie Farberow  wrote:
> > I am trying to build a statically-linked Python based on directions 
> at:
> >
> > http://yt.enzotools.org/wiki/CrayXT5Installation
> >
> > I have tried this on multiple systems. ?The first time I attempt to 
> build python, 'make' runs fine but 'make install' fails with the 
> following error:
> >
> > Sorry: UnicodeError: ("\\N escapes not supported (can't load 
> unicodedata module)",)
> >
> > Any help regarding the source of this error and possible fixes would 
> be appreciated.
> 
> Hmm.  There's not a lot of information to go on here.
> What version of Python is this? Python 2.6.2?
> Have you tried Googling for that exact error message?
> 
> The following issue looks as though it might be relevant:
> 
> http://bugs.python.org/issue1594809
> 
> especially since it looks as though the directions you linked
> to involve messing with the PYTHONPATH environment variable.
> 
> If you could post a log somewhere[*] showing the exact commands
> that you executed, along with all the output (and especially
> all the output from 'make' and 'make install'), that might help
> someone diagnose the problem further.
> 
> Mark
> 
> [*] I'm not sure where, though.  Posting all that output directly
> in a newsgroup message might not be considered very friendly.
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From samwyse at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 18:35:55 2009
From: samwyse at gmail.com (samwyse)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:35:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: best way to display photos
References: <96e9b045-d591-485e-b831-ba1462345df9@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<7fhfboF2ksfhiU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 25, 1:40?am, Thomas Guettler  wrote:
> Some years ago I had the same problem.
>
> I wrote a simple app with pygtk. You get get it from here:
> ? ?http://guettli.sourceforge.net/gthumpy/src/README.html
> The next pictures get loaded in background. Switching from
> one image to the next is faster then in some other apps. But
> somehow it is not ready for the public. I guess I am the only
> one who uses it.
>
> Flags are symlinks in the home directory .local/share/app/gthumpy. This
> means you should not move your images, otherwise the flags get lost.
>
> I don't think it will work on ms-windows, but it could be ported.
>
> Or you use mirage:http://mirageiv.berlios.de/index.html
>
> It is a pygtk image viewer. You can define shortcuts that execute user defined
> commands.
>
> ? Thomas
>
> samwyse schrieb:
>
> > I have several thousand photographs that I need to quickly classify,
> > all by myself. ?After extensive searches, I have been unable to find
> > anything to my liking, so desire to write something myself. ?I'm
> > thinking about displaying a photo and waiting for keystrokes to tag
> > it; 'i' for interior, 'e' for exterior, etc., while hitting space or
> > enter will advance to the next photo. ?My big question is, what's the
> > best way to display the photos. ?I've used PIL in the past, but IIRC
> > it uses an external program. ?Pygame is the next obvious choice, but
> > like PIL it requires an add-in. ?That leaves Tkinter. ?Has anyone used
> > it to display .JPG files, perhaps with rescaling to fit my screen?
> > How is its performance? ?Is there any other possibilities that I've
> > missed? ?Thanks.
>
> --
> Thomas Guettler,http://www.thomas-guettler.de/
> E-Mail: guettli (*) thomas-guettler + de

Thanks!  Both of these look very similar to what I need.  I will
investigate further.


From wwy58 at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 25 18:43:28 2009
From: wwy58 at yahoo.com (David)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:43:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: mod_python: Permission denied
Message-ID: <0fb0ed29-82bb-4bdf-aa24-071c158eea2a@k13g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I googled online however I did not find a clue my question. So I post
it here.

I created a mod_python CGI to upload a file and saves it in folder "/
var/www/keyword-query/files/".  My code runs in root.

     fileitem = req.form['file']

   # Test if the file was uploaded
   if fileitem.filename:

      # strip leading path from file name to avoid directory traversal
attacks
      fname = os.path.basename(fileitem.filename)
      # build absolute path to files directory
      dir_path = os.path.join(os.path.dirname(req.filename), 'files')
      f = open(os.path.join(dir_path, fname), 'wb', 10000)

      # Read the file in chunks
      for chunk in fbuffer(fileitem.file):
         f.write(chunk)
      f.close()
      message = 'The file "%s" was uploaded successfully' % fname

I got:

 File "/var/www/keyword-query/upload.py", line 30, in upload
    f = open(os.path.join(dir_path, fname), 'wb', 10000)

IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/www/keyword-query/files/
Defrosting.rtf'


"Defrosting.rtf" is a file on the desktop of my Windows XP computer.

Anybody knows what the problem is?

Thanks for your replies.



From graham.dumpleton at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 18:46:07 2009
From: graham.dumpleton at gmail.com (Graham Dumpleton)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:46:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How does the file.seek() work ?
References: <2feaaf6c-d723-4843-a9e5-271d00187180@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <1532ff09-f892-44c8-8206-10b3c2d16050@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 25, 5:37?am, Tim Chase  wrote:
> > I want the file pointer set to 100 and overwrite everything from there
> [snip]
> > def application(environ, response):
> > ? ? query=os.path.join(os.path.dirname(__file__),'teeeeeeeeeemp')
> > ? ? range=environ.get('HTTP_RANGE','bytes=0-').replace
> > ('bytes=','').split(',')
> > ? ? offset=[]
> > ? ? for r in range: offset.append(r.split('-'))
> > ? ? with open(query,'w+') as f:
> > ? ? ? ? ?f.seek(int(offset[0][0]))
> > ? ? ? ? ?while True:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?chunk=environ['wsgi.input'].read(8192).decode('latin1')
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?if not chunk: break
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?f.write(chunk)
> > ? ? f=open(query)
> > ? ? l=str(os.fstat(f.fileno()).st_size)
> > ? ? response('200 OK', [('Content-Type', 'text/plain'), ('Content-
> > Length', str(len(l)))])
> > ? ? return [l]
>
> A couple items of note:
>
> - you don't open the file in binary mode -- seek is more reliable
> in binary mode :)

If my memory is right, if file is opened in binary mode, also wouldn't
need to be decoding the WSGI input stream as latin-1 to get a string.
Instead can just deal with bytes and write bytes to file.

Graham

> - if you want to lop off the rest of the file, use f.truncate()
>
> An example:
>
> # create the initial file
> ?>>> f = file('zzz.zzz', 'wb+')
> ?>>> f.write('abcdefghijklmnop')
> ?>>> f.close()
>
> ?>>> f = file('zzz.zzz', 'ab+')
> ?>>> f.read() # show the existing content
> 'abcdefghijklmnop'
> ?>>> f.seek(5) # seek to the desired offset
> ?>>> f.truncate() # throw away everything after here
> ?>>> f.write('zyx') # write the new data at pos=5
> ?>>> f.close()
>
> # demonstrate that it worked
> ?>>> f = file('zzz.zzz', 'rb')
> ?>>> f.read()
> 'abcdezyx'
> ?>>> f.close()
>
> > also why must I open the file a second time to know how big it is ?
>
> Likely the output has been buffered. ?You can try using
>
> ? ?f.flush() # write all the data to the disk first
> ? ?size = os.fstat(f.fileno()).st_size
>
> which seems to do the trick for me.
>
> -tkc



From graham.dumpleton at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 18:48:38 2009
From: graham.dumpleton at gmail.com (Graham Dumpleton)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:48:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: mod_python: Permission denied
References: <0fb0ed29-82bb-4bdf-aa24-071c158eea2a@k13g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <09e25701-5d85-4aed-a4bb-4fa94df74f5c@v37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 26, 8:43?am, David  wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I googled online however I did not find a clue my question. So I post
> it here.
>
> I created a mod_python CGI to upload a file and saves it in folder "/
> var/www/keyword-query/files/". ?My code runs in root.
>
> ? ? ?fileitem = req.form['file']
>
> ? ?# Test if the file was uploaded
> ? ?if fileitem.filename:
>
> ? ? ? # strip leading path from file name to avoid directory traversal
> attacks
> ? ? ? fname = os.path.basename(fileitem.filename)
> ? ? ? # build absolute path to files directory
> ? ? ? dir_path = os.path.join(os.path.dirname(req.filename), 'files')
> ? ? ? f = open(os.path.join(dir_path, fname), 'wb', 10000)
>
> ? ? ? # Read the file in chunks
> ? ? ? for chunk in fbuffer(fileitem.file):
> ? ? ? ? ?f.write(chunk)
> ? ? ? f.close()
> ? ? ? message = 'The file "%s" was uploaded successfully' % fname
>
> I got:
>
> ?File "/var/www/keyword-query/upload.py", line 30, in upload
> ? ? f = open(os.path.join(dir_path, fname), 'wb', 10000)
>
> IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/www/keyword-query/files/
> Defrosting.rtf'
>
> "Defrosting.rtf" is a file on the desktop of my Windows XP computer.
>
> Anybody knows what the problem is?
>
> Thanks for your replies.

Apache service likely running as a special user which doesn't have
write permission to your directory.

Graham


From wwy58 at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 25 18:48:47 2009
From: wwy58 at yahoo.com (David)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:48:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: mod_python: Permission denied
References: <0fb0ed29-82bb-4bdf-aa24-071c158eea2a@k13g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5fc7570c-8f77-429d-8c9d-5ba74573e440@k13g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

A little more info: "Defrosting.rtf" is a file that I wanted to
upload. This file was supposed to upload to folder '/var/www/keyword-
query/files/'.

My code runs in root.


From somebody at somewhere.com  Tue Aug 25 18:50:17 2009
From: somebody at somewhere.com (Stephen Fairchild)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 23:50:17 +0100
Subject: Help with arrays
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

Philip Semanchuk wrote:

> 
> On Aug 25, 2009, at 6:14 PM, Gleb Belov wrote:
> 
>> Hello! I'm working on an exercise wherein I have to write a Guess The
>> Number game, but it's the computer who's guessing MY number. I can get
>> it to work, but there's one obvious problem: the computer generates
>> random numbers until one of them corresponds to my number, but it will
>> often generate one number (eg. 4) numerous times, meaning it doesn't
>> know that this number is invalid. What I mean is, it will sometimes
>> use 37 tries to guess a number out of 1 - 9, which makes no sense,
>> since it should only take 9 tries, at most. I was trying to find a way
>> to make a dynamic list of all the numbers the computer generates in
>> the loop and then make it re-generate the number if the previous
>> number is present in the list, so it doesn't keep on generating 4 (as
>> an example). I don't know if that makes sense... Basically, we humans
>> know that once something is incorrect, there's no point in trying to
>> use it as the answer next time, because we already know it's
>> incorrect. How do I go about coding this in Python? I'm still quite
>> new to the language so any help will be appreciated...
> 
> One cheap way to do it (not necessarily efficient) is to make a list
> of your possible guesses (e.g. range(1,10)), use random.shuffle() to
> put them in random order and then run through the guesses one at a time.

import random
import time

l = range(1, 10)

while l:
    print l.pop(random.randint(0, len(l) - 1))
    time.sleep(2)

-- 
Stephen Fairchild


From wwy58 at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 25 18:58:54 2009
From: wwy58 at yahoo.com (David)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:58:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: mod_python: Permission denied
References: <0fb0ed29-82bb-4bdf-aa24-071c158eea2a@k13g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<5fc7570c-8f77-429d-8c9d-5ba74573e440@k13g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0ec8929f-eab8-4655-8661-40142ae8c908@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

disclaimer: i did not write this code. i copied it and inserted into
my cgi code. it is from http://webpython.codepoint.net/mod_python_publisher_big_file_upload.


From wwy58 at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 25 19:00:46 2009
From: wwy58 at yahoo.com (David)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:00:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: mod_python: Permission denied
References: <0fb0ed29-82bb-4bdf-aa24-071c158eea2a@k13g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<5fc7570c-8f77-429d-8c9d-5ba74573e440@k13g2000prh.googlegroups.com> 
	<0ec8929f-eab8-4655-8661-40142ae8c908@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0c73d5bf-3f5d-4308-a7f0-276e4d6d9fa9@x25g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

Thanks Graham. Let me contact Admin.


From geekworking at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 19:04:01 2009
From: geekworking at gmail.com (geekworking)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:04:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
References: 
	<20090825132439.d6cb18ca.feliphil@gmx.net> 
	
Message-ID: <63bb7834-80ac-4894-9ef5-2598ecac72cc@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

If you are planning a database driven app, you should first settle on
a DB server. Any real enterprise DB system will put all of the
business logic in the database server. The choice of a front end
should be secondary.


Wikipedia's list of Python apps:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Python_software


From wwy58 at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 25 19:07:34 2009
From: wwy58 at yahoo.com (David)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:07:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: mod_python: Permission denied
References: <0fb0ed29-82bb-4bdf-aa24-071c158eea2a@k13g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<5fc7570c-8f77-429d-8c9d-5ba74573e440@k13g2000prh.googlegroups.com> 
	<0ec8929f-eab8-4655-8661-40142ae8c908@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com> 
	<0c73d5bf-3f5d-4308-a7f0-276e4d6d9fa9@x25g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <134a6022-f7d5-4871-bb7c-e38af0cd7679@x6g2000prc.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 25, 4:00?pm, David  wrote:
> Thanks Graham. Let me contact Admin.

Hi Graham: you are right. it's fixed now. Thanks again.


From mdekauwe at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 19:48:35 2009
From: mdekauwe at gmail.com (Mart.)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:48:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Help with arrays
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <9be8986b-95c8-48fa-a298-3b97fa598081@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 25, 11:50?pm, Stephen Fairchild  wrote:
> Philip Semanchuk wrote:
>
> > On Aug 25, 2009, at 6:14 PM, Gleb Belov wrote:
>
> >> Hello! I'm working on an exercise wherein I have to write a Guess The
> >> Number game, but it's the computer who's guessing MY number. I can get
> >> it to work, but there's one obvious problem: the computer generates
> >> random numbers until one of them corresponds to my number, but it will
> >> often generate one number (eg. 4) numerous times, meaning it doesn't
> >> know that this number is invalid. What I mean is, it will sometimes
> >> use 37 tries to guess a number out of 1 - 9, which makes no sense,
> >> since it should only take 9 tries, at most. I was trying to find a way
> >> to make a dynamic list of all the numbers the computer generates in
> >> the loop and then make it re-generate the number if the previous
> >> number is present in the list, so it doesn't keep on generating 4 (as
> >> an example). I don't know if that makes sense... Basically, we humans
> >> know that once something is incorrect, there's no point in trying to
> >> use it as the answer next time, because we already know it's
> >> incorrect. How do I go about coding this in Python? I'm still quite
> >> new to the language so any help will be appreciated...
>
> > One cheap way to do it (not necessarily efficient) is to make a list
> > of your possible guesses (e.g. range(1,10)), use random.shuffle() to
> > put them in random order and then run through the guesses one at a time.
>
> import random
> import time
>
> l = range(1, 10)
>
> while l:
> ? ? print l.pop(random.randint(0, len(l) - 1))
> ? ? time.sleep(2)
>
> --
> Stephen Fairchild

Perhaps generate all of the possible moves at the outset in some form
of lookup table that you can refer to? I think it is a similar thing
to how computers play chess, I think it is called "hash tables"


From cevomed at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 19:48:52 2009
From: cevomed at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-9?Q?Cevahir_Demirk=FDran?=)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 01:48:52 +0200
Subject: Division and right shift in python
Message-ID: <3f74e020908251648k7b391a09g78b155507b2f23c4@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I would like to do a floor division by a power of 2 in python to make it
faster than / (modular division in 2.x).
However, it is slower.
What is the reason of that?
I checked them via:

 def f2(x,n):
    t1 = clock()
    r = x/pow(2,n)
    t2 = clock()
    print (t2-t1)
    print r
    t2 = clock()
    r = x>>n
    t3 = clock()
    print (t3-t2)
    print r
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

From evaned at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 19:51:42 2009
From: evaned at gmail.com (Evan Driscoll)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:51:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Context manager to temporarily change the variable of a register 
	[aka write swap(a,b)]
References: <7c171ce3-56a7-482f-addd-c6c86441cba7@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<7c2c560f-d54c-492c-a847-e8ab079faea0@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> 
	<7fivlrF2lsrsuU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
Message-ID: <3da50b33-d79e-4579-9240-ef430ea7c697@m38g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 25, 3:47?pm, Evan Driscoll  wrote:
> So here is my simplified version that only works for globals:

So I think this works if (1) you only use changed_value in the same
module as it's defined in (otherwise it picks up the globals from the
module it's defined in, which is almost certainly not what you want),
and (2) the value you want to change is just a simple variable and not
either something like "os.path" or a builtin.

I have worked on this a bit more and have something that addresses
these issues in at least the cases I've tested. I'm not going to post
the code here, but it is up at
  http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~driscoll/python/utils.py
and there are a few unit tests at
  http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~driscoll/python/utils_test.py

I solved issue (1) by reintroducing the use of inspect to walk back up
the stack a couple frames, but I pulled out the f_globals member
instead of f_locals.

Issue (2a) I fixed by splitting the variable name at periods and
walking through successive dictionaries with each component. Issue
(2b) I fixed by looking for a '__builtins__' entry if the name I'm
looking up doesn't exist.

Right now it's sort of hackish... it probably doesn't respond
particularly well if things go unexpectedly (e.g. a bad variable name
is given) and I should probably verify that the value is unchanged
during the with statement and throw an exception otherwise, but it
probably works well enough for my purposes for now.

Comments are appreciated... a couple of the things in there it seems
like there could very well be reimplementations of things that are
already done.

Evan


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Tue Aug 25 20:04:51 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 17:04:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python, qt, and lgpl
References: 
Message-ID: <1e7a9056-db73-4c4f-be8a-f1b65a91daec@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On 25 Aug, 21:45, Terry Reedy  wrote:

> Will be good news if realized.

Good news for everyone except Riverbank.




From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Tue Aug 25 20:34:11 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 02:34:11 +0200
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c20908251316k2ebc304fk1422c96ddb4158c4@mail.gmail.com>
References: 
	<4A942954.7070702@optimum.net>
	<7a9c25c20908251316k2ebc304fk1422c96ddb4158c4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

25-08-2009 o 22:16:24 Stephen Hansen  wrote:

> The OP's probably is that during the execution of the class body, the  
> class
> doesn't exist... so the 'def fact' -can't- use Classname.fact to address
> itself explicitly, and within fact the locals don't contain a reference  
> to
> the function itself, and its globals don't either. You just can't do  
> that.
> The right way, IMHO, is to move 'fact' up and out of the class into a  
> _fact global variable. Alternatively, you can use a metaclass.

Note that you can also pass a function to the function itself, and then
it works:

>>> class Foo:
...     def func(foo=None):
...         if foo:
...             return foo()
...         else:
...             return '2nd step'
...     x = func(func)
...
>>> Foo.x
'2nd step'

Note that when called from class definition body, func is an ordinary
function, not a method. It become a method *when it's called as a method*
(what is possible *after* creating the class => outside the definition).

Cheers,
*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Tue Aug 25 20:45:32 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 02:45:32 +0200
Subject: Is it a bug?
In-Reply-To: <87b7ce88-1f2f-43ff-8096-6a95a89b6e27@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <87b7ce88-1f2f-43ff-8096-6a95a89b6e27@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

25-08-2009 o 22:51:14 Gleb Belov  wrote:

> I have two questions:
> 1) Is it possible and if so, how do I access each individual element?
> Are there any indexes and what is the syntax?

It's a 'Read-The-Friendly-Manual' question.

(hint: library reference - Built-in Types - ...)

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From somebody at somewhere.com  Tue Aug 25 20:59:45 2009
From: somebody at somewhere.com (Stephen Fairchild)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 01:59:45 +0100
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
Message-ID: 

You are trying to run code in a class that does not exist yet. 


def Demo():
    def fact(n):
        if n < 2:
            return 1
        else:
            return n * fact(n - 1)
    return type("Demo", (object,), {"fact": staticmethod(fact), "_classvar":
fact(5)})
Demo = Demo()

d = Demo()
print d._classvar    # prints 120
print d.fact(7)      # prints 5040
print Demo           # prints 

-- 
Stephen Fairchild


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Tue Aug 25 21:02:11 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 03:02:11 +0200
Subject: break unichr instead of fix ord?
In-Reply-To: <2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

25-08-2009 o 21:45:49  wrote:

> In Python 2.5 on Windows I could do [*1]:
>
>   # Create a unicode character outside of the BMP.
>   >>> a = u'\U00010040'
>
>   # On Windows it is represented as a surogate pair.
[snip]
> On Python 2.6, unichr() was "fixed" (using the word
> loosely) so that it too now fails with characters outside
> the BMP.
[snip]
> Does not this effectively make unichr() and ord() useless
> on Windows for all but a subset of unicode characters?

Are you sure, you couldn't have UCS-4-compiled Python distro
for Windows?? :-O

*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From phily05 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 21:09:28 2009
From: phily05 at gmail.com (Phil)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 18:09:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python on the Web
Message-ID: 

I've seen lots of web sites explaining everything, but for whatever
reason I seem to not be picking something up.
I am a graphical person, which is probably the reason I haven't found
my answer.
May somebody please confirm if my diagram accurately represents the
stack, generally speaking.

http://i26.tinypic.com/1fe82x.png

Even if that is the case, I'm having a hard time understanding the
differences. I guess wsgiref has absolutely nothing to do with FCGI/
SCGI/CGI and simply receives and responds to HTTP requests following
the WSGI specification? Does it just spawn a new thread for each
request? If so, then how is this any different than a production
server with FCGI?

The way I am understanding the 'Production' side of that picture is
that the web server (eg. lighttpd) creates a single FCGI process. The
FCGI process is actually the entry point of the Framework/Application
which sets up Flup's WSGIServer, being the interface between FCGI and
the Framework/Application? What I mean is, it is just the code that
the web server loads to start with, example...
    from flup.server.fcgi import WSGIServer
    from app import application
    WSGIServer(application).run()
... Then for each HTTP request, Flup's WSGIServer creates a new thread
to handle the request?

As I've read elsewhere, "These days, FastCGI is never used directly.
Just like mod_python it is only used for the deployment of WSGI
applications." As far as I understand, the main (or only?) reasoning
for this is because WSGI makes Python applications easier to deploy
without having to worry about whether using FCGI/SCGI/CGI.

What would be involved to run Python on the web using FCGI without
WSGI? I can feel the flames already. This isn't the only reason I want
to know, but one reason is that I want to use Python 3.1 and as I
understand, this will have to wait for the WSGI 2.0 specification to
ensure time isn't wasted.

I apologize if the questions are ridiculous. I've just recently got
into web programming and it seems that in order for me to use Python,
I need a deep understanding of web servers, HTTP, FCGI, etc. I have
more questions but they go more off topic, so I will save it for
another thread, another day.

I realize there is a large number of questions, so thanks for any help.


From terry.yinzhe at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 21:11:53 2009
From: terry.yinzhe at gmail.com (Terry)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 18:11:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: multiprocessing managers and socket connection.
References: <722664f1-81af-45da-ae40-070bca8f3ee0@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0af6687a-e36d-47c3-af5e-7e66eacbb3ce@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 25, 10:14?pm, Chris  wrote:
> I've been using multiprocessing managers and I really like the
> functionality.
>
> I have a question about reconnecting to a manager. I have a situation
> where I start on one machine (A) a manager that is listening and then
> on another machine (B) connects to that manager and uses its proxy
> object to call functions on the manager's computer; this all works as
> expected. But, if the manager from A shuts down, B's application won't
> notice because in the MP code it ignores socket error
> errno.ECONNREFUSED. If A becomes available again or is restarted, B
> doesn't automatically reconnect either and continue its operation.
> It's function is basically stopped.
>
> Here is the code from connection.py:
> while 1:
> ? ? ? ? try:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? s.connect(address)
> ? ? ? ? except socket.error, e:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? if e.args[0] != errno.ECONNREFUSED: # connection refused
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? debug('failed to connect to address %s', address)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? raise
> ? ? ? ? ? ? time.sleep(0.01)
> ? ? ? ? else:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? break
>
> How can I have B automatically reconnect to A and continue its work
> once A is available again?

I think you need to retry repeatedly until successfully connected.

br, Terry


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 21:13:11 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 18:13:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: can python make web applications?
References: 
	
	 
	<02a3ba7c$0$18215$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <1e23a271-785b-4600-892f-32c85d717f2e@f18g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

Mark  wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:45:17 +0100, Goke Aruna wrote:
> >http://www.openerp.com, all done is python.
>
> That does look impressive. Is that Django or Turbogears?

Turbogears, according to the product's wikipedia page.


From terry.yinzhe at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 21:22:02 2009
From: terry.yinzhe at gmail.com (Terry)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 18:22:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Return value of multiprocessing manager registerred function
Message-ID: <4337084f-cf9b-4b9c-a0cc-ba8f0821f31a@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

I'm using the multiprocessing.manager to run procedures remotely. It
all worked fine except I hope to have a different return value type.

The remote function calls always return a proxy, which when I need to
get the value it need to connect to the manager again to fetch it. But
I just need the value, not the proxy.

Can I just return the value instead of a proxy from a manager?

br, Terry


From davea at ieee.org  Tue Aug 25 21:26:12 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 21:26:12 -0400
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <4A948F34.3030703@ieee.org>

Stephen Fairchild wrote:
> You are trying to run code in a class that does not exist yet. 
>
>
> def Demo():
>     def fact(n):
>         if n < 2:
>             return 1
>         else:
>             return n * fact(n - 1)
>     return type("Demo", (object,), {"fact": staticmethod(fact), "_classvar":
> fact(5)})
> Demo = Demo()
>
> d = Demo()
> print d._classvar    # prints 120
> print d.fact(7)      # prints 5040
> print Demo           # prints 
>
>   
In all these messages, something I haven't seen pointed out is that 
fact() has no self argument.  Seems to me that makes it a staticmethod, 
so it should be declared that way.  But you can't call a static method 
from the class scope, since the class hasn't been completed yet.  That's 
the part I consider a problem, not all the rest.  I've seen the same 
problem in Forth, where 'smudge' is used to prevent a definition from 
accidentally calling itself.  But I don't recall whether that was in the 
standard, or just vendor's helpful additions.

Anyway, my first choice is to move the static method out of the class.  
Second choice workaround follows, moving the initialization of the class 
variable to after the class, when it can properly use the class name.:

class Demo(object):
    @staticmethod
    def fact(n):
        if n < 2:
            return 1
        else:
            return n * Demo.fact(n - 1)

Demo._classvar = Demo.fact(5)

print Demo._classvar
xx = Demo()
print xx.fact(6)

DaveA


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Tue Aug 25 21:41:55 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 25 Aug 2009 18:41:55 -0700
Subject: web frameworks that support Python 3
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
Graham Dumpleton   wrote:
>On Aug 24, 6:34=A0am, Sebastian Wiesner  wrote:
>> 
>> In any case, there is bottle [1], which provides a *very minimal* framewo=
>rk
>> for WSGI web development. =A0Don't expect too much, it is really small, a=
>nd
>> doesn't do much more than routing and minimal templating.
>>
>> However, it is the only Python-3-compatible web framework I know of.
>>
>> [1]http://bottle.paws.de/page/start
>
>There is one big flaw with your claim. That is the there is no WSGI
>specification for Python 3.0 as yet. Anything that claims to work with
>WSGI and Python 3.0 is just a big guess as far as how WSGI for Python
>3.0 may work.

Perhaps you meant "library" instead of "specification"?  I don't
understand how a language can be missing a specification.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I support family values -- Addams family values" --www.nancybuttons.com


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 21:47:22 2009
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:47:22 -0500
Subject: Python on the Web
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-25 20:09 PM, Phil wrote:
> I've seen lots of web sites explaining everything, but for whatever
> reason I seem to not be picking something up.
> I am a graphical person, which is probably the reason I haven't found
> my answer.
> May somebody please confirm if my diagram accurately represents the
> stack, generally speaking.
>
> http://i26.tinypic.com/1fe82x.png
>
> Even if that is the case, I'm having a hard time understanding the
> differences. I guess wsgiref has absolutely nothing to do with FCGI/
> SCGI/CGI and simply receives and responds to HTTP requests following
> the WSGI specification?

Correct.

> Does it just spawn a new thread for each
> request?

No, it is single-threaded.

> If so, then how is this any different than a production
> server with FCGI?
>
> The way I am understanding the 'Production' side of that picture is
> that the web server (eg. lighttpd) creates a single FCGI process. The
> FCGI process is actually the entry point of the Framework/Application
> which sets up Flup's WSGIServer, being the interface between FCGI and
> the Framework/Application? What I mean is, it is just the code that
> the web server loads to start with, example...
>      from flup.server.fcgi import WSGIServer
>      from app import application
>      WSGIServer(application).run()
> ... Then for each HTTP request, Flup's WSGIServer creates a new thread
> to handle the request?

Something like that, yes.

> As I've read elsewhere, "These days, FastCGI is never used directly.
> Just like mod_python it is only used for the deployment of WSGI
> applications." As far as I understand, the main (or only?) reasoning
> for this is because WSGI makes Python applications easier to deploy
> without having to worry about whether using FCGI/SCGI/CGI.

Yes, that is the primary reason for WSGI, in my mind. There are other things 
like the composability of applications, but the decoupling of application 
authoring from deployment is the sine qua non, in my opinion.

> What would be involved to run Python on the web using FCGI without
> WSGI? I can feel the flames already. This isn't the only reason I want
> to know, but one reason is that I want to use Python 3.1 and as I
> understand, this will have to wait for the WSGI 2.0 specification to
> ensure time isn't wasted.

I am willing to bet that the FCGI libraries haven't been upgraded to Python 3.x, 
either. I suspect that the most 3.x-updating work will be going into WSGI and 
the adapters. E.g.

   http://www.saddi.com/software/news/archives/64-Dabbling-in-Python-3.0.html

You may want to rethink the Python 3.x requirement, though. It will probably be 
much less a waste of your time to write your app using a framework like Django 
or Pylons on Python 2.x and then upgrade to Python 3.x when they do.

> I apologize if the questions are ridiculous. I've just recently got
> into web programming and it seems that in order for me to use Python,
> I need a deep understanding of web servers, HTTP, FCGI, etc. I have
> more questions but they go more off topic, so I will save it for
> another thread, another day.

Knowing something about HTTP will certainly help get into the right mindset to 
know what limitations and capabilities web apps can have.

Typically, though, you use a framework that abstracts most of this stuff away 
from you. You usually only need to delve into the details in very specific 
circumstances.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From lists at cheimes.de  Tue Aug 25 21:49:42 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 03:49:42 +0200
Subject: break unichr instead of fix ord?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Jan Kaliszewski wrote:
> Are you sure, you couldn't have UCS-4-compiled Python distro
> for Windows?? :-O

Nope, Windows require UCS-2 builds.

Christian



From davea at ieee.org  Tue Aug 25 22:02:56 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 22:02:56 -0400
Subject: Help with arrays
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	
	
Message-ID: <4A9497D0.3010203@ieee.org>



Stephen Fairchild wrote:
> Philip Semanchuk wrote:
>
>   
>> On Aug 25, 2009, at 6:14 PM, Gleb Belov wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> Hello! I'm working on an exercise wherein I have to write a Guess The
>>> Number game, but it's the computer who's guessing MY number. I can get
>>> it to work, but there's one obvious problem: the computer generates
>>> random numbers until one of them corresponds to my number, but it will
>>> often generate one number (eg. 4) numerous times, meaning it doesn't
>>> know that this number is invalid. What I mean is, it will sometimes
>>> use 37 tries to guess a number out of 1 - 9, which makes no sense,
>>> since it should only take 9 tries, at most. I was trying to find a way
>>> to make a dynamic list of all the numbers the computer generates in
>>> the loop and then make it re-generate the number if the previous
>>> number is present in the list, so it doesn't keep on generating 4 (as
>>> an example). I don't know if that makes sense... Basically, we humans
>>> know that once something is incorrect, there's no point in trying to
>>> use it as the answer next time, because we already know it's
>>> incorrect. How do I go about coding this in Python? I'm still quite
>>> new to the language so any help will be appreciated...
>>>       
>> One cheap way to do it (not necessarily efficient) is to make a list
>> of your possible guesses (e.g. range(1,10)), use random.shuffle() to
>> put them in random order and then run through the guesses one at a time.
>>     
>
> import random
> import time
>
> l = range(1, 10)
>
> while l:
>     print l.pop(random.randint(0, len(l) - 1))
>     time.sleep(2)
>
>   
While both of these will work well, I'd point out that a direct 
translation of your question is to use a set.  Define an empty set, and 
each time you try a number unsuccessfully, add it to the set.  Then just use
       while x in myset:
               x = newguess()

to find the next guess.  This approach isn't as efficient, but it's a 
useful paradigm to understand.

A separate question is whether the human is supposed to tell the 
computer whether the guess is high or low.  If so, you can eliminate 
many numbers on each guess.   For example, suppose the solution is 8.  A 
guess of 5 would say "too low."  Then you'd cross off now only 5 but 1-4 
as well.

With this change the best solution changes from a random shuffle to a 
binary search.

DaveA




From exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  Tue Aug 25 22:19:59 2009
From: exarkun at twistedmatrix.com (exarkun at twistedmatrix.com)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 02:19:59 -0000
Subject: web frameworks that support Python 3
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: <20090826021959.7027.186838236.divmod.xquotient.13@localhost.localdomain>

On 01:41 am, aahz at pythoncraft.com wrote:
>In article 
>,
>Graham Dumpleton   wrote:
>>On Aug 24, 6:34=A0am, Sebastian Wiesner  wrote:
>>>
>>>In any case, there is bottle [1], which provides a *very minimal* 
>>>framewo=
>>rk
>>>for WSGI web development. =A0Don't expect too much, it is really 
>>>small, a=
>>nd
>>>doesn't do much more than routing and minimal templating.
>>>
>>>However, it is the only Python-3-compatible web framework I know of.
>>>
>>>[1]http://bottle.paws.de/page/start
>>
>>There is one big flaw with your claim. That is the there is no WSGI
>>specification for Python 3.0 as yet. Anything that claims to work with
>>WSGI and Python 3.0 is just a big guess as far as how WSGI for Python
>>3.0 may work.
>
>Perhaps you meant "library" instead of "specification"?

He meant specification.

Python 3.x is different enough from any Python 2.x release that PEP 333 
no longer completely makes sense.  It needs to be modified to be 
applicable to Python 3.x.

So, in the sense that there is no written down, generally agreed upon 
specification for what WSGI on Python 3.x means, there is no... 
specification.

There is, however, apparently, a library. ;)

Jean-Paul


From phily05 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 22:27:53 2009
From: phily05 at gmail.com (Phil)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 19:27:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python on the Web
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

Thank you for the helpful and timely response.

My interest in Python 3.1 was actually to develop a framework. Again,
I can feel the flames. :) I understand there are enough frameworks but
I actually have no applications that I wish to develop. I enjoy
developing these kinds of things from scratch as a learning
experience.

I've been doing fine with 2.x and WSGI, even without understanding
half of this stuff. It is actually my first Python project. Haha. I
just have my own design philosophies that I wish to experiment with.
Python 3.x just makes everything nicer with UNICODE, etc.

Although you've been helpful with almost all of the mentioned
concerns, I am still looking for more details on some of the questions
I've asked. So, if others stumble upon this post, feel free to
contribute further.

Thanks again.


From graham.dumpleton at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 22:52:16 2009
From: graham.dumpleton at gmail.com (Graham Dumpleton)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 19:52:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: web frameworks that support Python 3
References: 
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: <7c16aca3-05c2-4aad-a645-f1e8ca37a097@2g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 26, 12:19?pm, exar... at twistedmatrix.com wrote:
> On 01:41 am, a... at pythoncraft.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >In article
> >,
> >Graham Dumpleton ? wrote:
> >>On Aug 24, 6:34=A0am, Sebastian Wiesner  wrote:
>
> >>>In any case, there is bottle [1], which provides a *very minimal*
> >>>framewo=
> >>rk
> >>>for WSGI web development. =A0Don't expect too much, it is really
> >>>small, a=
> >>nd
> >>>doesn't do much more than routing and minimal templating.
>
> >>>However, it is the only Python-3-compatible web framework I know of.
>
> >>>[1]http://bottle.paws.de/page/start
>
> >>There is one big flaw with your claim. That is the there is no WSGI
> >>specification for Python 3.0 as yet. Anything that claims to work with
> >>WSGI and Python 3.0 is just a big guess as far as how WSGI for Python
> >>3.0 may work.
>
> >Perhaps you meant "library" instead of "specification"?
>
> He meant specification.
>
> Python 3.x is different enough from any Python 2.x release that PEP 333
> no longer completely makes sense. ?It needs to be modified to be
> applicable to Python 3.x.
>
> So, in the sense that there is no written down, generally agreed upon
> specification for what WSGI on Python 3.x means, there is no...
> specification.
>
> There is, however, apparently, a library. ;)

If you are talking about wsgiref then that was somewhat broken in
Python 3.0. In Python 3.1 it works for some definition of works. The
problem again being that since WSGI specification hasn't been updated
for Python 3.X, that how it works will likely not match what the
specification may eventually say. This will become more and more of a
problem if WSGI specification isn't updated. At the moment the
discussion is going around in circles, although, if I put my
optimistic face on, I would say it is a slow inward spiral. Not quite
a death spiral at least.

Graham


From wuwei23 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 23:17:15 2009
From: wuwei23 at gmail.com (alex23)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:17:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python on the Web
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <5ee192da-c56a-4adf-9572-6e5b72bafead@y4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

Phil  wrote:
> My interest in Python 3.1 was actually to develop a framework. Again,
> I can feel the flames. :) I understand there are enough frameworks but
> I actually have no applications that I wish to develop.

No offense intended, but that's probably the worst approach to take.

Frameworks created for the sake of creating a framework, as opposed to
those written to meet a defined need, tend to be the worst examples of
masturbatory coding.



From phily05 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 23:25:31 2009
From: phily05 at gmail.com (Phil)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:25:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python on the Web
References: 
	
	
	<5ee192da-c56a-4adf-9572-6e5b72bafead@y4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 25, 11:17?pm, alex23  wrote:
> Phil  wrote:
> > My interest in Python 3.1 was actually to develop a framework. Again,
> > I can feel the flames. :) I understand there are enough frameworks but
> > I actually have no applications that I wish to develop.
>
> No offense intended, but that's probably the worst approach to take.
>
> Frameworks created for the sake of creating a framework, as opposed to
> those written to meet a defined need, tend to be the worst examples of
> masturbatory coding.

No offense taken. I understand your concern. I actually do have some
important design decisions I wish to meet. It has sort of been a
process of evaluating the things I love and hate most from existing
frameworks.


From metolone+gmane at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 23:40:46 2009
From: metolone+gmane at gmail.com (Mark Tolonen)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:40:46 -0700
Subject: Division and right shift in python
References: <3f74e020908251648k7b391a09g78b155507b2f23c4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 


"Cevahir Demirkiran"  wrote in message 
news:3f74e020908251648k7b391a09g78b155507b2f23c4 at mail.gmail.com...
> Hi,
>
> I would like to do a floor division by a power of 2 in python to make it
> faster than / (modular division in 2.x).
> However, it is slower.
> What is the reason of that?
> I checked them via:
>
> def f2(x,n):
>    t1 = clock()
>    r = x/pow(2,n)
>    t2 = clock()
>    print (t2-t1)
>    print r
>    t2 = clock()
>    r = x>>n
>    t3 = clock()
>    print (t3-t2)
>    print r
>

It's not slower on my system, but note the inconsistent results also:

>>> f2(1024,5)
3.47396033483e-06
32
2.19077375482e-06
32
>>> f2(1024,5)
4.84135603429e-06
32
3.08499440393e-06
32
>>> f2(1024,5)
4.6782844052e-06
32
3.77604384028e-06
32

Time it with timeit...

C:\>python -m timeit -n 10000000 -s x=1024 "x>>5"
10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.113 usec per loop

C:\>python -m timeit -n 10000000 -s x=1024 "x/pow(2,5)"
10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.468 usec per loop

Right-shift is over 4x faster.

-Mark




From graham.dumpleton at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 23:45:26 2009
From: graham.dumpleton at gmail.com (Graham Dumpleton)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:45:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python on the Web
References: 
	
	
	<5ee192da-c56a-4adf-9572-6e5b72bafead@y4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 26, 1:17?pm, alex23  wrote:
> Phil  wrote:
> > My interest in Python 3.1 was actually to develop a framework. Again,
> > I can feel the flames. :) I understand there are enough frameworks but
> > I actually have no applications that I wish to develop.
>
> No offense intended, but that's probably the worst approach to take.
>
> Frameworks created for the sake of creating a framework, as opposed to
> those written to meet a defined need, tend to be the worst examples of
> masturbatory coding.

I would in part actually disagree with that.

The problem with people creating frameworks to meet some defined need
is that they often implement only just enough of that framework to
meet that need and nothing more. End result is that the framework is
more often than not ever fleshed out enough to be of much use to
anyone else. Its existence though just pollutes the Internet with more
crap that one has to wade through.

Since there is already a plethora of good frameworks out there, if
writing an application, you are better of using one of the existing
frameworks. If interested in working at the framework level, you would
still be much better off looking at the existing frameworks, first
learn how they work and then consider contributing to them, rather
than implementing your own.

For some related reading, see:

  http://lucumr.pocoo.org/2009/7/30/nih-in-the-wsgi-world

As far as low level framework (or anti frameworks), suggest looking at
Werkzeug, Paste/Pylons and bobo.

I'll comment more on original message later.

Graham


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Tue Aug 25 23:51:30 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:51:30 -0700
Subject: Division and right shift in python
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3f74e020908251648k7b391a09g78b155507b2f23c4@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908252051w2c0ad860t46a7651b2ccabcf1@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 8:40 PM, Mark Tolonen wrote:
>
> "Cevahir Demirkiran"  wrote in message
> news:3f74e020908251648k7b391a09g78b155507b2f23c4 at mail.gmail.com...
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I would like to do a floor division by a power of 2 in python to make it
>> faster than / (modular division in 2.x).
>> However, it is slower.
>> What is the reason of that?
>> I checked them via:
>>
>> def f2(x,n):
>> ? t1 = clock()
>> ? r = x/pow(2,n)
>> ? t2 = clock()
>> ? print (t2-t1)
>> ? print r
>> ? t2 = clock()
>> ? r = x>>n
>> ? t3 = clock()
>> ? print (t3-t2)
>> ? print r
>>
>
> It's not slower on my system, but note the inconsistent results also:
>
>>>> f2(1024,5)
>
> 3.47396033483e-06
> 32
> 2.19077375482e-06
> 32
>>>>
>>>> f2(1024,5)
>
> 4.84135603429e-06
> 32
> 3.08499440393e-06
> 32
>>>>
>>>> f2(1024,5)
>
> 4.6782844052e-06
> 32
> 3.77604384028e-06
> 32
>
> Time it with timeit...
>
> C:\>python -m timeit -n 10000000 -s x=1024 "x>>5"
> 10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.113 usec per loop
>
> C:\>python -m timeit -n 10000000 -s x=1024 "x/pow(2,5)"
> 10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.468 usec per loop
>
> Right-shift is over 4x faster.

Adjusting for not having to lookup the name "pow", right shift is
still faster, but only slightly.

chris at morpheus ~ $ python -m timeit -n 10000000 -s x=1024 "x/pow(2,5)"
10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.318 usec per loop
chris at morpheus ~ $ python -m timeit -n 10000000 -s x=1024 "x/(2**5)"
10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.0973 usec per loop
chris at morpheus ~ $ python -m timeit -n 10000000 -s x=1024 "x>>5"
10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.0885 usec per loop

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From metolone+gmane at gmail.com  Tue Aug 25 23:53:52 2009
From: metolone+gmane at gmail.com (Mark Tolonen)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:53:52 -0700
Subject: break unichr instead of fix ord?
References: <2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 


 wrote in message 
news:2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99 at v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
> In Python 2.5 on Windows I could do [*1]:
>
>  # Create a unicode character outside of the BMP.
>  >>> a = u'\U00010040'
>
>  # On Windows it is represented as a surogate pair.
>  >>> len(a)
>  2
>  >>> a[0],a[1]
>  (u'\ud800', u'\udc40')
>
>  # Create the same character with the unichr() function.
>  >>> a = unichr (65600)
>  >>> a[0],a[1]
>  (u'\ud800', u'\udc40')
>
>  # Although the unichr() function works fine, its
>  # inverse, ord(), doesn't.
>  >>> ord (a)
>  TypeError: ord() expected a character, but string of length 2 found
>
> On Python 2.6, unichr() was "fixed" (using the word
> loosely) so that it too now fails with characters outside
> the BMP.
>
>  >>> a = unichr (65600)
>  ValueError: unichr() arg not in range(0x10000) (narrow Python build)
>
> Why was this done rather than changing ord() to accept a
> surrogate pair?
>
> Does not this effectively make unichr() and ord() useless
> on Windows for all but a subset of unicode characters?

Switch to Python 3?

>>> x='\U00010040'
>>> import unicodedata
>>> unicodedata.name(x)
'LINEAR B SYLLABLE B025 A2'
>>> ord(x)
65600
>>> hex(ord(x))
'0x10040'
>>> unicodedata.name(chr(0x10040))
'LINEAR B SYLLABLE B025 A2'
>>> ord(chr(0x10040))
65600
>>> print(ascii(chr(0x10040)))
'\ud800\udc40'

-Mark




From christopher.nebergall at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 00:32:28 2009
From: christopher.nebergall at gmail.com (Christopher Nebergall)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 22:32:28 -0600
Subject: PyObject_CallFunction and writable memory
Message-ID: 

I'm working a patch to a hex editor (frhed) written in c++ so it can
load python scripts. Internally the c++ code has a unsigned char * of
possibly serveral hundred megs which I want to send into the python
code to modify.    What is the best way to send the unsigned char * as
writable memory into the python code, so I don't have to duplicate the
memory in order to return a modified copy?   I'm currently using
"PyObject_CallFunction(pFunc, "(s#)",p->lpbMemory, p->dwSize);" to
send an immutable string but I haven't seen what I need to set in the
format string which makes the data writable to python.    The solution
can be for either python 2.6 or 3.1.

Thanks,
Christopher


From graham.dumpleton at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 00:34:23 2009
From: graham.dumpleton at gmail.com (Graham Dumpleton)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 21:34:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python on the Web
References: 
Message-ID: <08ac740a-de74-4b5d-94af-35ab4dbe6ecc@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>

A few additional comments on top of what others have said.

On Aug 26, 11:09?am, Phil  wrote:
> I've seen lots of web sites explaining everything, but for whatever
> reason I seem to not be picking something up.
> I am a graphical person, which is probably the reason I haven't found
> my answer.
> May somebody please confirm if my diagram accurately represents the
> stack, generally speaking.
>
> http://i26.tinypic.com/1fe82x.png
>
> Even if that is the case, I'm having a hard time understanding the
> differences. I guess wsgiref has absolutely nothing to do with FCGI/
> SCGI/CGI and simply receives and responds to HTTP requests following
> the WSGI specification?

Technically it receives and responses to request based on HTTP
specification, not WSGI specification. The underlying HTTP server
translates to and communicates with a Python web application using the
WSGI interface.

> Does it just spawn a new thread for each
> request? If so, then how is this any different than a production
> server with FCGI?

I would describe there as being four major ways that WSGI can be
hosted. These are:

1. Custom build HTTP/WSGI server written in Python. Production quality
examples are CherryPy WSGI server and Paste HTTP server. You shouldn't
use wsgiref for anything but very simple stuff.

2. Per request process execution by way of CGI and a CGI/WSGI adapter.
This could be under Apache or any other web server which supports CGI.

3. Module that embeds Python interpreter into a C based web server.
Example are mod_wsgi and mod_python for Apache. Note that mod_python
would infrequently be used to host WSGI and doesn't include its own
WSGI adapter. These days mod_wsgi for Apache would be used. Processes
in this would be persistent.

4. Module in a web server that allows one to communicate using a
custom protocol with a separate persistent web application process
hosting the web application through a WSGI interface. This convers
FASTCGI, SCGI and AJP. The mod_wsgi module for Apache has a hybrid
mode which work in a similar way but uses an  internal protocol.

Amongst these, there are many variations as far as number of process
and threads. For a bit of discussion about this in relation to
mod_wsgi read:

  http://code.google.com/p/modwsgi/wiki/ProcessesAndThreading

> The way I am understanding the 'Production' side of that picture is
> that the web server (eg. lighttpd) creates a single FCGI process.

FASTCGI isn't restricted to a single process, nor single threading.
Whether a particular implementation allows for the variations depends
on the implementation.

> The
> FCGI process is actually the entry point of the Framework/Application
> which sets up Flup's WSGIServer, being the interface between FCGI and
> the Framework/Application? What I mean is, it is just the code that
> the web server loads to start with, example...
> ? ? from flup.server.fcgi import WSGIServer
> ? ? from app import application
> ? ? WSGIServer(application).run()
> ... Then for each HTTP request, Flup's WSGIServer creates a new thread
> to handle the request?
>
> As I've read elsewhere, "These days, FastCGI is never used directly.

Even back in time, I don't think it was really ever used as a generic
interface that people worked with directly, there was always a more
usable layer built on top of it.

> Just like mod_python it is only used for the deployment of WSGI
> applications.

The mod_python module isn't used just for WSGI applications and is
probably rarely used for them. This is because mod_python has its own
interface for building web applications. It also has abilities to hook
into Apache request handling phases, meaning it can do more than host
a a content handler/web application.

> As far as I understand, the main (or only?) reasoning
> for this is because WSGI makes Python applications easier to deploy
> without having to worry about whether using FCGI/SCGI/CGI.

WSGI provides for portability, it isn't necessarily easier to use than
mod_python.

> What would be involved to run Python on the web using FCGI without
> WSGI? I can feel the flames already.

No, you really don't want to do that.

> This isn't the only reason I want
> to know, but one reason is that I want to use Python 3.1 and as I
> understand, this will have to wait for the WSGI 2.0 specification to
> ensure time isn't wasted.

Then look at mod_wsgi. It already has support for Python 3.X. Some
aspects of how it implements WSGI 1.0 may change, but will not be too
much and details are being sorted out in the back rooms as we speak.
See:

  http://code.google.com/p/modwsgi/wiki/ChangesInVersion0300

The other option is CherryPy WSGI server as that is close to a Python
3.X release as well, as I perceive it.

I wouldn't bother waiting for WSGI 2.0. That is more of a pipe dream.
There will be an updated WSGI 1.0 for Python 3.0.

Graham

> I apologize if the questions are ridiculous. I've just recently got
> into web programming and it seems that in order for me to use Python,
> I need a deep understanding of web servers, HTTP, FCGI, etc. I have
> more questions but they go more off topic, so I will save it for
> another thread, another day.
>
> I realize there is a large number of questions, so thanks for any help.



From nicola.larosa at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 01:54:59 2009
From: nicola.larosa at gmail.com (Nicola Larosa (tekNico))
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 22:54:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Code formatting question: conditional expression
References:  
	<421c8c9d-efb5-4e70-9321-51736b42bc9a@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <46c5c882-c38b-4439-a3cf-62783309cc08@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>

Nicola Larosa wrote:
> Here's my take:
>
> ? ? excessblk = Block(total - P.BASE, srccol,
> carry_button_suppress=True
> ? ? ? ? ) if total > P.BASE else None

Oops, it got shortened out: line longer than 72 chars, acceptable in
code, but not in email. I'll try again.

If the first line is too long, I would write it like this:

    excessblk = Block(total - P.BASE, srccol,
        carry_button_suppress=True) if total > P.BASE else None

If not, like this:

    excessblk = Block(total - P.BASE, srccol, cbs=True
        ) if total > P.BASE else None

If the condition or the last value were too long to make it all fit on
two lines, then it would probably best to revert to a plain "if"
statement.

--
Nicola Larosa - http://www.tekNico.net/


From http  Wed Aug 26 02:19:25 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 25 Aug 2009 23:19:25 -0700
Subject: your favorite debugging tool?
References: 
	
Message-ID: <7xpraj5c7m.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Dennis Lee Bieber  writes:
> 	My normal debug technique is wolf fencing* (eg; print statements)

That method was formerly completely automated on the web:

  http://www.st.cs.uni-saarland.de/askigor/faq.php

It was amazing.  Further info is here:

  http://www.st.cs.uni-saarland.de/dd/


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Wed Aug 26 02:44:50 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 08:44:50 +0200
Subject: Object Reference question
In-Reply-To: 
References: <2dcf41c3-6623-48d9-bb74-97f753088479@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <200908260844.50220.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Tuesday 25 August 2009 21:32:09 Aahz wrote:
> In article ,
>
> Hendrik van Rooyen   wrote:
> >On Friday 21 August 2009 08:07:18 josef wrote:
> >> My main focus of this post is: "How do I find and use object reference
> >> memory locations?"
> >>
> >>>> a = [1,2,3,4]
> >>>> id(a)
> >
> >8347088
>
> Of course, that doesn't actually allow you to do anything...

Well - if the OP is the sort of person who likes juggling with running 
chainsaws, then he can look up a thread I started about a thing I called 
a "can", which enabled you to get the object back from a string 
representation of the ID.  I did not want to open that "can" of worms again, 
and I thought that answering half a question was better than nothing...

*weg*  - Hendrik



From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Aug 26 02:47:33 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 16:47:33 +1000
Subject: Code formatting question: conditional expression
References: 
	<421c8c9d-efb5-4e70-9321-51736b42bc9a@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<46c5c882-c38b-4439-a3cf-62783309cc08@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <877hwrf4vu.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

"Nicola Larosa (tekNico)"  writes:

> Nicola Larosa wrote:
> > Here's my take:
> >
> > ? ? excessblk = Block(total - P.BASE, srccol,
> > carry_button_suppress=True
> > ? ? ? ? ) if total > P.BASE else None
>
> Oops, it got shortened out: line longer than 72 chars, acceptable in
> code, but not in email. I'll try again.

Fine in email; just munged on your behalf (and probably without your
knowledge) by your email service provider. If you don't want that
happening, it's probably best to avoid Google Mail.

-- 
 \      ?I wish a robot would get elected president. That way, when he |
  `\    came to town, we could all take a shot at him and not feel too |
_o__)                                               bad.? ?Jack Handey |
Ben Finney


From eckhardt at satorlaser.com  Wed Aug 26 03:03:27 2009
From: eckhardt at satorlaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 09:03:27 +0200
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
> class Color:
>     def __init__(self, r, g,b):
>           pass
>     BLACK = Color(0,0,0)
> 
> It make sens from a design point of view to put BLACK in the Color
> namespace. But I don't think it's possible with python.

class Color:
    ...

setattrib(Color, "BLACK", Color(0,0,0))

Uli

-- 
Sator Laser GmbH
Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Thorsten F?cking, Amtsgericht Hamburg HR B62 932



From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Aug 26 03:33:26 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 09:33:26 +0200
Subject: Context manager to temporarily change the variable of a register
	[aka write swap(a,b)]
In-Reply-To: <3da50b33-d79e-4579-9240-ef430ea7c697@m38g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <7c171ce3-56a7-482f-addd-c6c86441cba7@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<7c2c560f-d54c-492c-a847-e8ab079faea0@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<7fivlrF2lsrsuU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	<3da50b33-d79e-4579-9240-ef430ea7c697@m38g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7fk6q6F2jq5otU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Evan Driscoll schrieb:
> On Aug 25, 3:47 pm, Evan Driscoll  wrote:
>> So here is my simplified version that only works for globals:
> 
> So I think this works if (1) you only use changed_value in the same
> module as it's defined in (otherwise it picks up the globals from the
> module it's defined in, which is almost certainly not what you want),
> and (2) the value you want to change is just a simple variable and not
> either something like "os.path" or a builtin.
> 
> I have worked on this a bit more and have something that addresses
> these issues in at least the cases I've tested. I'm not going to post
> the code here, but it is up at
>   http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~driscoll/python/utils.py
> and there are a few unit tests at
>   http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~driscoll/python/utils_test.py
> 
> I solved issue (1) by reintroducing the use of inspect to walk back up
> the stack a couple frames, but I pulled out the f_globals member
> instead of f_locals.
> 
> Issue (2a) I fixed by splitting the variable name at periods and
> walking through successive dictionaries with each component. Issue
> (2b) I fixed by looking for a '__builtins__' entry if the name I'm
> looking up doesn't exist.
> 
> Right now it's sort of hackish... it probably doesn't respond
> particularly well if things go unexpectedly (e.g. a bad variable name
> is given) and I should probably verify that the value is unchanged
> during the with statement and throw an exception otherwise, but it
> probably works well enough for my purposes for now.
> 
> Comments are appreciated... a couple of the things in there it seems
> like there could very well be reimplementations of things that are
> already done.


I'd still won't use it :) instead, something like this might be 
something I'd use, if I need a local "rebound". Or, again, just use a 
different *name* alltogether.

foo = "bar"


@apply
def f(foo="baz"):
     ...



Other than that, for your original use-case, I have a context-manager I 
call "safe modifier" that

  - takes an object, key and value
  - stores the old value of the key on the object
  - sets the new value
  - on exit, restores the old value

This is for e.g. temporary config-changes in tests.

Diez


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Aug 26 03:34:31 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 09:34:31 +0200
Subject: PyObject_CallFunction and writable memory
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7fk6s7F2jq5otU2@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Christopher Nebergall schrieb:
> I'm working a patch to a hex editor (frhed) written in c++ so it can
> load python scripts. Internally the c++ code has a unsigned char * of
> possibly serveral hundred megs which I want to send into the python
> code to modify.    What is the best way to send the unsigned char * as
> writable memory into the python code, so I don't have to duplicate the
> memory in order to return a modified copy?   I'm currently using
> "PyObject_CallFunction(pFunc, "(s#)",p->lpbMemory, p->dwSize);" to
> send an immutable string but I haven't seen what I need to set in the
> format string which makes the data writable to python.    The solution
> can be for either python 2.6 or 3.1.

Take a look at the buffer-protocol.

Diez


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Aug 26 03:36:21 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 09:36:21 +0200
Subject: Python, qt, and lgpl
In-Reply-To: <1e7a9056-db73-4c4f-be8a-f1b65a91daec@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<1e7a9056-db73-4c4f-be8a-f1b65a91daec@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7fk6vlF2jq5otU3@mid.uni-berlin.de>

sturlamolden schrieb:
> On 25 Aug, 21:45, Terry Reedy  wrote:
> 
>> Will be good news if realized.
> 
> Good news for everyone except Riverbank.


And only if LGPL is something you can live with. Some projects require 
more liberal licenses.


Or is there a commercial license available, too?



Diez


From benjamin at python.org  Wed Aug 26 03:37:40 2009
From: benjamin at python.org (Benjamin Peterson)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 07:37:40 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: =?utf-8?b?UHlPYmplY3RfQ2FsbEZ1bmN0aW9u?= and writable memory
References: 
Message-ID: 

Christopher Nebergall  gmail.com> writes:

> 
> I'm currently using
> "PyObject_CallFunction(pFunc, "(s#)",p->lpbMemory, p->dwSize);" to
> send an immutable string but I haven't seen what I need to set in the
> format string which makes the data writable to python.    The solution
> can be for either python 2.6 or 3.1.

Have a look at the buffer interface: http://docs.python.org/3.1/c-api/buffer.html






From sdementen at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 03:50:17 2009
From: sdementen at gmail.com (seb)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 00:50:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: conditional for-statement
References:  
	
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: <0fce5130-3057-4393-94a2-320568ddc072@n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 25, 11:57?pm, Piet van Oostrum  wrote:
> You can also say:
> [x+y for x in range(3) for y in range(4) if x < y]
> If you want to write this as a loop you have to put the for's on
> separate lines separated by colons, so why not the if also? Or would you
> also like to have the for's on one line?

indeed, we could have the for's on one line too. In fact, if you have
a double loop without any body that is specific to the outer loop, you
can merge the two lines. Similarly, if you have a loop with a if (ie
filter) without any body having to be executed outside the if, having
them on the same line is also clearer.

|  for x in range(3):
|  for x in range(3) for y in range(4):
|    for y in range(4):               could be written as
|    body
|      body
and
|  for x in range(3):
|  for x in range(3) if cond(x):
|    if cond(x):                      could be written as
|    body
|      body

Such loops are in fact mentally just one loop over the cartesian
product (product set) of the two iterators or over the filter set of
the iterator respectively in these examples.

Moreover, for 'body' longer than a couple of lines, it is quite useful
to see immediately that there is no additional code that could be only
specific to the outher loop
ie, when writing all in one line, we can be sure that we do not have
this situation
|  for x in range(3):
|    for y in range(4):
|      long body
|      ...
|      long body
|    body related to outer loop

The naturalness of iteration in the various comprehensions and the
generator expressions can be smoothly extended to the standard code
iteration.

BTW, I noticed this inconsistency when, coming back to python after a
couple of weeks of no python programming, I started coding loops like

for obj in list_obj if obj.Size > 100:
  print(obj)

and got an error message about syntax.

> --
> Piet van Oostrum 
> URL:http://pietvanoostrum.com[PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
> Private email: p... at vanoostrum.org- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -



From vlastimil.brom at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 04:05:17 2009
From: vlastimil.brom at gmail.com (Vlastimil Brom)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 10:05:17 +0200
Subject: break unichr instead of fix ord?
In-Reply-To: <2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <9fdb569a0908260105s7858b648of081d439bb73e3ae@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/25  :
> In Python 2.5 on Windows I could do [*1]:
>
> ?# Create a unicode character outside of the BMP.
> ?>>> a = u'\U00010040'
>
> ?# On Windows it is represented as a surogate pair.
> ?>>> len(a)
> ?2
> ?>>> a[0],a[1]
> ?(u'\ud800', u'\udc40')
>
> ?# Create the same character with the unichr() function.
> ?>>> a = unichr (65600)
> ?>>> a[0],a[1]
> ?(u'\ud800', u'\udc40')
>
> ?# Although the unichr() function works fine, its
> ?# inverse, ord(), doesn't.
> ?>>> ord (a)
> ?TypeError: ord() expected a character, but string of length 2 found
>
> On Python 2.6, unichr() was "fixed" (using the word
> loosely) so that it too now fails with characters outside
> the BMP.
>
> ?>>> a = unichr (65600)
> ?ValueError: unichr() arg not in range(0x10000) (narrow Python build)
>
> Why was this done rather than changing ord() to accept a
> surrogate pair?
>
> Does not this effectively make unichr() and ord() useless
> on Windows for all but a subset of unicode characters?
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

Hi,
I'm not sure about the exact reasons for this behaviour on narrow
builds either (maybe the consistency of the input/ output data to
exactly one character?).

However, if I need these functions for higher unicode planes, the
following rather hackish replacements seem to work. I presume, there
might be smarter ways of dealing with this, but anyway...

hth,
   vbr

#### not (systematically) tested #####################################

import sys

def wide_ord(char):
    try:
        return ord(char)
    except TypeError:
        if len(char) == 2 and 0xD800 <= ord(char[0]) <= 0xDBFF and
0xDC00 <= ord(char[1]) <= 0xDFFF:
            return (ord(char[0]) - 0xD800) * 0x400 + (ord(char[1]) -
0xDC00) + 0x10000
        else:
            raise TypeError("invalid character input")


def wide_unichr(i):
    if i <= sys.maxunicode:
        return unichr(i)
    else:
        return ("\U"+str(hex(i))[2:].zfill(8)).decode("unicode-escape")


From lib_team at yahoo.fr  Wed Aug 26 04:08:48 2009
From: lib_team at yahoo.fr (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Pr=E9mon_Nom?=)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 08:08:48 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Getting the current PyCFunction while in a python function
Message-ID: <526667.17255.qm@web24301.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi

I would like to get the PyCFunction object which corresponds to the current function which is executed. I call PyFrameObject* frame = PyEval_GetFrame()

I try to parse frame->f_valuestack, but I don't know how to get the index of the function in the stack or event the size of the stack to be able to parse it (from end to begin and to stop on the first PyCFunctionObject).
There is a member call stack size (frame->f_valuestack->f_code->co_stacksize) but it doesn't correspond to the frame->f_valuestack size :-(
In fact i know that when i call "print(myFunctionPrintNumber(123))
There is PyCfunctionObject corresponding to myFunctionPrintNumber but i don't know how to acces it :/ because i don't know how to get/compute frame->f_valuestack size or to get/compute directly
 the index where the current executed function is.

Please help me!!!

Regards



      
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From simon at brunningonline.net  Wed Aug 26 04:14:33 2009
From: simon at brunningonline.net (Simon Brunning)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 09:14:33 +0100
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
In-Reply-To: <63bb7834-80ac-4894-9ef5-2598ecac72cc@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<20090825132439.d6cb18ca.feliphil@gmx.net> 
	
	<63bb7834-80ac-4894-9ef5-2598ecac72cc@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8c7f10c60908260114q45ac2ae0i91fba0ed56808d6a@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/26 geekworking :
> If you are planning a database driven app, you should first settle on
> a DB server. Any real enterprise DB system will put all of the
> business logic in the database server. The choice of a front end
> should be secondary.

The trend for some years now has been to get behavior out of the
database and into the application, where it belongs. True, we tend to
keep the presentation tier separate too, but we really don't "put all
of the business logic in the database server".

Going back to the OP's question, it would be worth taking a look at
what the resolver boys are up to: .

-- 
Cheers,
Simon B.


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Wed Aug 26 04:16:13 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 10:16:13 +0200
Subject: Python on the Web
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4a94ef42$0$27774$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Phil a ?crit :
> I've seen lots of web sites explaining everything, but for whatever
> reason I seem to not be picking something up.
> I am a graphical person, which is probably the reason I haven't found
> my answer.
> May somebody please confirm if my diagram accurately represents the
> stack, generally speaking.
> 
> http://i26.tinypic.com/1fe82x.png

Seems correct.

> Even if that is the case, I'm having a hard time understanding the
> differences. I guess wsgiref has absolutely nothing to do with FCGI/
> SCGI/CGI and simply receives and responds to HTTP requests following
> the WSGI specification?

Yeps.

> Does it just spawn a new thread for each
> request?

Not AFAICT.


> The way I am understanding the 'Production' side of that picture is
> that the web server (eg. lighttpd) creates a single FCGI process. The
> FCGI process is actually the entry point of the Framework/Application
> which sets up Flup's WSGIServer, being the interface between FCGI and
> the Framework/Application? What I mean is, it is just the code that
> the web server loads to start with, example...
>     from flup.server.fcgi import WSGIServer
>     from app import application
>     WSGIServer(application).run()
> ... Then for each HTTP request, Flup's WSGIServer creates a new thread
> to handle the request?

I didn't bother reading Flup's source code, but I suppose this might be 
the case.

> As I've read elsewhere, "These days, FastCGI is never used directly.
> Just like mod_python it is only used for the deployment of WSGI
> applications." As far as I understand, the main (or only?) reasoning
> for this is because WSGI makes Python applications easier to deploy
> without having to worry about whether using FCGI/SCGI/CGI.

Nor about which web server you use (Apache, lighthttpd, whatever).

> What would be involved to run Python on the web using FCGI without
> WSGI? I can feel the flames already. This isn't the only reason I want
> to know, but one reason is that I want to use Python 3.1 and as I
> understand, this will have to wait for the WSGI 2.0 specification to
> ensure time isn't wasted.

My humble opinion (based on years of experience in both Python and web 
programming) is that you're taking the wrong approach. I can only second 
  Robert Kern here: use an existing, well maintained wsgi-compliant 
framework like Django, Pylons etc, and wait for the framework to be 
ported to python 3.x. Any other solution will almost certainly end up 
needing a complete rewrite anytime soon.

> I apologize if the questions are ridiculous. I've just recently got
> into web programming and it seems that in order for me to use Python,
> I need a deep understanding of web servers, HTTP, FCGI, etc.

Programming for the web - whatever the language & techno - indeed 
require a deep (or at least correct) understanding of HTTP and web 
servers, yes. Even with the abstraction layers provided by frameworks, 
you still need to understand how the whole damn thing works, what's an 
HTTP resquest & response and quite a few other things as well.



From frank at chagford.com  Wed Aug 26 04:22:41 2009
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 10:22:41 +0200
Subject: Move dictionary from instance to class level
Message-ID: 

Hi all

I have a class that uses a dictionary to map message numbers to methods.

Here is a simple example -

    class MyClass(object):
        def __init__(self):
            self.method_dict = {}
            self.method_dict[0] = self.method_0
            self.method_dict[1] = self.method_1

        def on_message_received(self, msg):
            self.method_dict[msg]()

        def method_0(self):
            print 'in method_0'

        def method_1(self):
            print 'in method_1'

I have quite a few methods, so the dictionary is growing - up to 28 methods 
so far. To avoid
having to recreate the dictionary every time I create an instance of the 
class, I tried to move it
up to the class level. Unfortunately it does not work. This is what I 
tried -

    class MyClass(object):
        method_dict = {}
        method_dict[0] = method_0  # this gives an error
        method_dict[1] = method_1

        def on_message_received(self, msg):
            self.method_dict[msg]()

        def method_0(self):
            print 'in method_0'

        def method_1(self):
            print 'in method_1'

As written above, I get the following error -
    NameError: name 'method_0' is not defined

If I try self.method_0, I get 'self' is not defined.

If I try __class__.method_0, I get '__class__' is not defined.

If I try MyClass.method_0, I get 'MyClass' is not defined.

Is there any variation on this theme that will work?

#----------------------------------------------------

Ok, I found a variation that seems to work.

Is this the preferred way, or is there a better alternative?

    class MyClass(object):

        def on_message_received(self, msg):
            #self.method_dict[msg]()  # had to change this to get it to work
            self.method_dict[msg](self)

        def method_0(self):
            print 'in method_0'

        def method_1(self):
            print 'in method_1'

    MyClass.method_dict = {}
    MyClass.method_dict[0] = MyClass.method_0
    MyClass.method_dict[1] = MyClass.method_1

As you can see, I had to add 'self' to the method arguments when calling the 
method.

Any comments?

Thanks

Frank Millman




From tw55413 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 04:29:52 2009
From: tw55413 at gmail.com (erikj)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 01:29:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
References: 
Message-ID: <7f519c34-2d6e-4fff-9489-dae43c6b2df1@r42g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

You could have a look at Camelot, to see if it fits
your needs : http://www.conceptive.be/projects/camelot/

it was developed with cross platform business apps in
mind.  when developing Camelot, we tried to build it using
wxWidgets first (because of the licensing at that time),
but it turned out that developing with QT proved to be
much more straightforward.  QT is documented very well
and you seldom encounter 'strange' issues that cost hours
of time to pinpoint and fix.

the datagrid was developed to be able to handle millions
of database records without glitches and is flexible thanks
to QT's model-view-delegate framework.

we do print barcodes with this app (even directly to
zebra printers)

if you have questions regarding Camelot, please feel free
to post on our mailing list : http://groups.google.com/group/project-camelot

Regards,

Erik

On Aug 24, 2:08?pm, Gilles Ganault  wrote:
> Hello
>
> ? ? ? ? I was wondering if some people in this ng use Python and some GUI
> toolkit (PyWin32, wxWidgets, QT, etc.) to build professional
> applications, and if yes, what it's like, the pros and cons, etc.
>
> I'm especially concerned about the lack of controls, the lack of
> updates (lots of controls in wxWidgets are 1.0 deadware), and problems
> linked to how to update users' PC remotely when I build a new version
> using eg. Py2exe.
>
> I need controls for business apps like access to databases, good data
> grid, printing reports (with or without barcodes), etc.
>
> Thank you.



From pierre.gaillard at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 04:30:32 2009
From: pierre.gaillard at gmail.com (Pierre)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 01:30:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: quantiles of a student distribution
Message-ID: 


Hello...

Do you know how I can calculate the quantiles of a student
distribution in pyhton ?

Thanks


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Wed Aug 26 04:41:56 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 10:41:56 +0200
Subject: print() and unicode strings (python 3.1)
References: <4eda8137-7db9-4c39-a2c1-3477b071f7f6@x5g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<4a92b83b$0$27209$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	
	<4a92fb02$0$2582$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	
	
	<84154e6e-c425-4b71-89e3-7d2877a19418@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

>>>>> 7stud  (7) wrote:

>7> Thanks for the response.  My OS is mac osx 10.4.11.  I'm not really
>7> sure how to check my locale settings.  Here is some stuff I tried:

>7> $ echo $LANG

>7> $ echo $LC_ALL

>7> $ echo $LC_CTYPE

>7> $ locale
>7> LANG=
>7> LC_COLLATE="C"
>7> LC_CTYPE="C"
>7> LC_MESSAGES="C"
>7> LC_MONETARY="C"
>7> LC_NUMERIC="C"
>7> LC_TIME="C"
>7> LC_ALL="C"

IIRC, Mac OS X 10.4 does not set LANG or LC_* automatically. In 10.5
Terminal has an option in the preferences to set LANG according to the
encoding chosen (and presumably the language of the user).

-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Wed Aug 26 04:54:05 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 01:54:05 -0700
Subject: Move dictionary from instance to class level
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908260154y2f4f6852ga3d6a3c41bd768de@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 1:22 AM, Frank Millman wrote:
> Hi all
>
> I have a class that uses a dictionary to map message numbers to methods.
>
> Here is a simple example -
>
> ? ?class MyClass(object):
> ? ? ? ?def __init__(self):
> ? ? ? ? ? ?self.method_dict = {}
> ? ? ? ? ? ?self.method_dict[0] = self.method_0
> ? ? ? ? ? ?self.method_dict[1] = self.method_1
>
> ? ? ? ?def on_message_received(self, msg):
> ? ? ? ? ? ?self.method_dict[msg]()
>
> ? ? ? ?def method_0(self):
> ? ? ? ? ? ?print 'in method_0'
>
> ? ? ? ?def method_1(self):
> ? ? ? ? ? ?print 'in method_1'
>
> I have quite a few methods, so the dictionary is growing - up to 28 methods
> so far. To avoid
> having to recreate the dictionary every time I create an instance of the
> class, I tried to move it
> up to the class level. Unfortunately it does not work. This is what I
> tried -
>
> ? ?class MyClass(object):
> ? ? ? ?method_dict = {}
> ? ? ? ?method_dict[0] = method_0 ?# this gives an error
> ? ? ? ?method_dict[1] = method_1
>
> ? ? ? ?def on_message_received(self, msg):
> ? ? ? ? ? ?self.method_dict[msg]()
>
> ? ? ? ?def method_0(self):
> ? ? ? ? ? ?print 'in method_0'
>
> ? ? ? ?def method_1(self):
> ? ? ? ? ? ?print 'in method_1'
>
> As written above, I get the following error -
> ? ?NameError: name 'method_0' is not defined
>
> If I try self.method_0, I get 'self' is not defined.

Right, because you're in the *class* body; there's no "current
instance" to be "self"; in fact, there's not even any class for there
to be instances of yet.

> If I try __class__.method_0, I get '__class__' is not defined.

Right, because the class isn't created until its body has finished executing

> If I try MyClass.method_0, I get 'MyClass' is not defined.

See previous note. The class name can't be bound to anything until the
class itself has been created.

> Is there any variation on this theme that will work?
>
> #----------------------------------------------------
>
> Ok, I found a variation that seems to work.
>
> Is this the preferred way, or is there a better alternative?

A

class MyClass(object):
    def on_message_received(self, msg):
        self.method_dict[msg](self)

    def method_0(self):
        print 'in method_0'

    def method_1(self):
        print 'in method_1'
        method_dict

    method_dict = {0: method_0, 1: method_1}
    #note this comes *after* the methods in question have been defined

Is there some reason you aren't using a list instead of a dict?
e.g. method_dict = [method_0, method_1, method_2, etc]

For that matter, why are you associating methods with integers in the
first place?

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From mriedel at inova-semiconductors.de  Wed Aug 26 04:56:28 2009
From: mriedel at inova-semiconductors.de (Michael Riedel)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 10:56:28 +0200
Subject: Q: multiprocessing.Queue size limitations or bug...
Message-ID: <4A94F8BC.8050304@inova-semiconductors.de>

Sorry for being not more specific but I'm not absolutely certain whether
I encountered a bug or did anything wrong:

The (stupid) code below results in a stall forever or not at 'p0.join()'
depending on the value of TROUBLE_MAKER.

Any help, thoughts, comments?

Thank you for your time.

Michael

# ----------------------------------------------------------------------

from multiprocessing import Process, Queue

# bit vector size
BVS=8

#
TROUBLE_MAKER=12  # for greater values p0.join() is never satisfied...

def evaluate(q, id, start=0, stop=2**BVS):

    cmin = {0: []}

    for mask0 in range(start, stop):
        for mask1 in range(0, 2**BVS):
            for mask2 in range(mask1, TROUBLE_MAKER):
                cmin[0].append((mask0, mask1, mask2))

    print 'process %d finished (dict layout: %d/%d)...' % (id,
len(cmin), len(cmin[0]))
    q.put(cmin.copy())
    q.close()


if __name__ == '__main__':

    q0 = Queue()
    q1 = Queue()
    q2 = Queue()
    q3 = Queue()

    part = 2**BVS/4
    p0 = Process(target=evaluate, args=(q0, 0, 0*part, 1*part),
name='worker_0')
    p1 = Process(target=evaluate, args=(q1, 1, 1*part, 2*part),
name='worker_1')
    p2 = Process(target=evaluate, args=(q2, 2, 2*part, 3*part),
name='worker_2')
    p3 = Process(target=evaluate, args=(q3, 3, 3*part, 4*part),
name='worker_3')
    p0.start()
    print 'process 0 started...'
    p1.start()
    print 'process 1 started...'
    p2.start()
    print 'process 2 started...'
    p3.start()
    print 'process 3 started...'
    # main process stalls at p0.join() for bigger TROUBLE_MAKER
    p0.join()
    p1.join()
    p2.join()
    p3.join()
    res0 = q0.get()
    res1 = q1.get()
    res2 = q2.get()
    res3 = q3.get()
    print 'results fetched...'

# ----------------------------------------------------------------------

-- 



From eckhardt at satorlaser.com  Wed Aug 26 05:04:43 2009
From: eckhardt at satorlaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 11:04:43 +0200
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>> class Color:
>>     def __init__(self, r, g,b):
>>           pass
>>     BLACK = Color(0,0,0)
>> 
>> It make sens from a design point of view to put BLACK in the Color
>> namespace. But I don't think it's possible with python.
> 
> class Color:
>     ...
> 
> setattrib(Color, "BLACK", Color(0,0,0))

Apart from it being "setattr" and not "setattrib", a simple

  Color.BLACK = Color(0,0,0)

should have done the job here. However, what I had in mind was this:

  class Color:
      _colors = [ ("BLACK", (0,0,0)),
                  ("WHITE", (1,1,1))
                ]

      def __str__(self):
          # try to locate a name
          for name, rgb in Color._colors:
              if self.rgb==rgb:
                  return name
          # no name found, just format as a triplet
          return "(%s, %s, %s)" % self.rgb

  # add symbolic names
  for name, rgb in Color._colors:
      setattr(Colors, name, Color(rgb))


...which I got as suggestion on my question how to model C enumeration
lookalikes.

Uli

-- 
Sator Laser GmbH
Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Thorsten F?cking, Amtsgericht Hamburg HR B62 932



From frank at chagford.com  Wed Aug 26 05:21:03 2009
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 11:21:03 +0200
Subject: Move dictionary from instance to class level
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 26, 10:54 am, Chris Rebert  wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 1:22 AM, Frank Millman wrote:
>
> A
>
> class MyClass(object):
>     def on_message_received(self, msg):
>         self.method_dict[msg](self)
>
>     def method_0(self):
>         print 'in method_0'
>
>     def method_1(self):
>         print 'in method_1'
>         method_dict
>
>     method_dict = {0: method_0, 1: method_1}
>     #note this comes *after* the methods in question have been defined
>

Thanks, Chris. This is much better.

> Is there some reason you aren't using a list instead of a dict?
> e.g. method_dict = [method_0, method_1, method_2, etc]
>
> For that matter, why are you associating methods with integers in the
> first place?
>

I actually use constants to define my messages, like this -

(MESSAGE_ONE
,MESSAGE_TWO
,MESSAGE_THREE
) = xrange(3)

I can then refer to the messages by their description, but internally it 
uses integers.

Frank




From frank at chagford.com  Wed Aug 26 05:22:21 2009
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 11:22:21 +0200
Subject: Move dictionary from instance to class level
References: 
	
Message-ID: <6ZKdnagdF6mZnwjXnZ2dnUVZ8jKdnZ2d@saix.net>

On Aug 26, 10:54 am, Chris Rebert  wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 1:22 AM, Frank Millman wrote:
>
> A
>
> class MyClass(object):
>     def on_message_received(self, msg):
>         self.method_dict[msg](self)
>
>     def method_0(self):
>         print 'in method_0'
>
>     def method_1(self):
>         print 'in method_1'
>         method_dict
>
>     method_dict = {0: method_0, 1: method_1}
>     #note this comes *after* the methods in question have been defined
>

Thanks, Chris. This is much better.

> Is there some reason you aren't using a list instead of a dict?
> e.g. method_dict = [method_0, method_1, method_2, etc]
>
> For that matter, why are you associating methods with integers in the
> first place?
>

I actually use constants to define my messages, like this -

(MESSAGE_ONE
,MESSAGE_TWO
,MESSAGE_THREE
) = xrange(3)

I can then refer to the messages by their description, but internally it
uses integers.

Frank





From frank at chagford.com  Wed Aug 26 05:22:21 2009
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 11:22:21 +0200
Subject: Move dictionary from instance to class level
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 26, 10:54 am, Chris Rebert  wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 1:22 AM, Frank Millman wrote:
>
> A
>
> class MyClass(object):
>     def on_message_received(self, msg):
>         self.method_dict[msg](self)
>
>     def method_0(self):
>         print 'in method_0'
>
>     def method_1(self):
>         print 'in method_1'
>         method_dict
>
>     method_dict = {0: method_0, 1: method_1}
>     #note this comes *after* the methods in question have been defined
>

Thanks, Chris. This is much better.

> Is there some reason you aren't using a list instead of a dict?
> e.g. method_dict = [method_0, method_1, method_2, etc]
>
> For that matter, why are you associating methods with integers in the
> first place?
>

I actually use constants to define my messages, like this -

(MESSAGE_ONE
,MESSAGE_TWO
,MESSAGE_THREE
) = xrange(3)

I can then refer to the messages by their description, but internally it
uses integers.

Frank





From frank at chagford.com  Wed Aug 26 05:48:38 2009
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 11:48:38 +0200
Subject: Move dictionary from instance to class level
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 


"Frank Millman"  wrote:

Apologies for the triple-post.

I use google-groups for reading c.l.py, but I know that some people reject 
messages from there due to the volume of spam, so on the odd occasion when I 
want to send something I fire up Outlook Express and send it from there. It 
seems to be misbehaving today.

Sorry about that.

Frank




From somebody at somewhere.com  Wed Aug 26 05:52:09 2009
From: somebody at somewhere.com (Stephen Fairchild)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 10:52:09 +0100
Subject: Help with arrays
References: 	
	
	
Message-ID: 

Dave Angel wrote:

> With this change the best solution changes from a random shuffle to a
> binary search.

Which is not what the OP asked for. Anyway, I think whatever solution is
chosen it's probably best written as a generator. The new pushback syntax
may prove useful.
-- 
Stephen Fairchild


From dksreddy at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 06:05:41 2009
From: dksreddy at gmail.com (Sandy)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 03:05:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: all possible matchings of elements of two lists
Message-ID: 

Hi all,
I basically want all possible matchings of elements from two lists,
Ex: [1,2] [a,b,c]

Required:
   [ [(1,a),(2,b)]
     [(1,b),(2,c)]
     [(1,c),(2,b)]
     [(1,b),(2,a)]
     [(1,c),(2,a)]
     [(1,a),(2,c)]
   ]

My thought is to get all possible permutations of two lists given and
select any combination and use zip to get the tuples. Repeat this for
all possible combinations.

Any other ideas?
Sandy




From no.email at please.post  Wed Aug 26 06:08:38 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 10:08:38 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

In  John Posner  writes:
>Stephen Hansen said:
>> This sounds like a fundamental confusion -- a namespace is not 
>> equivalent to a scope, really, I think.
>> ...


Hmm.  I can't find Stephen Hansen's original post anywhere.  Where
did you come across it?

Is there an *official* write-up where these issues are discussed?
To put it differently, where exactly in the Python docs would
someone learning Python go to answer my original query?

TIA!

kynn



From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 06:16:32 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 03:16:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python, qt, and lgpl
References:  
	<1e7a9056-db73-4c4f-be8a-f1b65a91daec@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 25, 5:04?pm, sturlamolden  wrote:
> On 25 Aug, 21:45, Terry Reedy  wrote:
>
> > Will be good news if realized.
>
> Good news for everyone except Riverbank.

Oh well, Riverbank could have played ball but they didn't, so I guess
I don't care if it's bad news for them.


Carl Banks


From manish.paradkar at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 06:28:01 2009
From: manish.paradkar at gmail.com (manish)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 18:28:01 +0800
Subject: Python Processor
Message-ID: <7670c8130908260328l6982ef4etad802a755b85a44f@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I am also wondering about how to implement a soft core reconfigurable
processor in a FPGA
which would directly execute the compiled python bytecode.

I am trying to understand the bytecode format but apart from
http://docs.python.org/library/dis.html
there is hardly any documentation on the python bytecodes.

Before going through the one of the existing VM implementations, i want to
know if there is there any informaition
available which elaborates on the structure of the bytecodes. Like details
regarding co_names, co_cellvars,
co_freevars, the concept of frames, global, local, objects, functions etc
with respect to the bytecode.


Thanks
Manish
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

From robin at reportlab.com  Wed Aug 26 06:30:22 2009
From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 11:30:22 +0100
Subject: ubuntu dist-packages
Message-ID: <4A950EBE.1090707@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>

I was surprised a couple of days ago when trying to assist a colleage with his 
python setup on a ubuntu 9.04 system.

We built our c-extensions and manually copied them into place, but site-packages 
wasn't there. It seems that ubuntu now wants stuff to go into 
lib/python2.6/dist-packages.

What is the relation between dist-packages/site-packages if any? Is this just a 
name change or is there some other problem being addressed?

For developers is it best just to create one's own private installations from 
the original tarballs?
-- 
Robin Becker



From dksreddy at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 06:32:35 2009
From: dksreddy at gmail.com (dksr)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 03:32:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: all possible matchings of elements of two lists
References: 
Message-ID: <2eb06442-7369-4c9f-83ad-b8f9d3d08c07@d4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

Ok this is how I do it:
l1 = [1,2]
l2= ['a','b','c']
res = []
l2 = permute(l2)
for i in l2:
    lis = [l1,l2]
    res.append(zip(*lis))
    # or use map depending on what u want
    res.append(map(None,*lis))

print res

On Aug 26, 11:05?am, Sandy  wrote:
> Hi all,
> I basically want all possible matchings of elements from two lists,
> Ex: [1,2] [a,b,c]
>
> Required:
> ? ?[ [(1,a),(2,b)]
> ? ? ?[(1,b),(2,c)]
> ? ? ?[(1,c),(2,b)]
> ? ? ?[(1,b),(2,a)]
> ? ? ?[(1,c),(2,a)]
> ? ? ?[(1,a),(2,c)]
> ? ?]
>
> My thought is to get all possible permutations of two lists given and
> select any combination and use zip to get the tuples. Repeat this for
> all possible combinations.
>
> Any other ideas?
> Sandy



From ryniek90 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 06:44:07 2009
From: ryniek90 at gmail.com (Ryniek90)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 12:44:07 +0200
Subject: TypeError: _getfullpathname() argument 1 must be (buffer overflow),
	not str in windows xp, while making tarfile
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A9511F7.7030909@gmail.com>


> [snip]
>>>> Here's my script code:
>>>> *http://paste.ubuntu.com/259310/
>>>>
>>>> *Shouldn't that bug be patched already  :-?
>>> Are you giving it the contents of the file when it's actually expecting
>>> the filename?
>>>
>>
>> Of course the content of the file:
> [snip]
>> See? *backup_obj.add(read_obj.read())*
>> In previous pasted Traceback you can see 
>> *backup_obj.add(read_bin_obj)* - read_obj_bin was a reference to the 
>> *read_obj.read()* .
>>
> The documentation lists the methods "add" and "addfile". Pick one and
> provide the values it's expecting. For example, if you choose "add" then
> provide the filename, not the contents of the file.
>
>> Do only I have this problem or Python programming under Windows is 
>> nightmare?
>
> It's only a nightmare if you don't follow the documentation. :-)
>

Hahah right. My fault. Must remember to read documentation so many times 
until I find the solution.  Thanks, now works fine.  :-)


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Aug 26 06:46:13 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 12:46:13 +0200
Subject: ubuntu dist-packages
References: 
Message-ID: <7fki3lF2kirnkU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Robin Becker wrote:

> I was surprised a couple of days ago when trying to assist a colleage with
> his python setup on a ubuntu 9.04 system.
> 
> We built our c-extensions and manually copied them into place, but
> site-packages wasn't there. It seems that ubuntu now wants stuff to go
> into lib/python2.6/dist-packages.
> 
> What is the relation between dist-packages/site-packages if any? Is this
> just a name change or is there some other problem being addressed?
> 
> For developers is it best just to create one's own private installations
> from the original tarballs?

I don't know much about the atrocities distributions commit to
python-installations (ripping out distutils "because it's a developer-only
thing", trying to save a few bytes here and there by unifying
install-locations between interpreter versions and whatnot), but I think
the main problem is that you don't use distutils - or setuptools (that gets
often a bad rap even if for most cases it works flawless)

If you'd use that to build & install your extension, it would figure out
where to place the resulting package (or egg) by itself. 

Diez


From dickinsm at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 06:52:22 2009
From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 03:52:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: all possible matchings of elements of two lists
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 26, 11:05?am, Sandy  wrote:
> Hi all,
> I basically want all possible matchings of elements from two lists,
> Ex: [1,2] [a,b,c]
>
> Required:
> ? ?[ [(1,a),(2,b)]
> ? ? ?[(1,b),(2,c)]
> ? ? ?[(1,c),(2,b)]
> ? ? ?[(1,b),(2,a)]
> ? ? ?[(1,c),(2,a)]
> ? ? ?[(1,a),(2,c)]
> ? ?]

If you're using Python 2.6 (or 3.1), you might find the itertools
module helpful:

Python 2.6.2 (r262:71600, Aug 26 2009, 09:40:44)
[GCC 4.2.1 (SUSE Linux)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import itertools
>>> for p in itertools.permutations('abc', 2): print zip([1,2], p)
...
[(1, 'a'), (2, 'b')]
[(1, 'a'), (2, 'c')]
[(1, 'b'), (2, 'a')]
[(1, 'b'), (2, 'c')]
[(1, 'c'), (2, 'a')]
[(1, 'c'), (2, 'b')]



--
Mark


From no.email at please.post  Wed Aug 26 06:57:32 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 10:57:32 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: 

In <7figv3F2m3p0dU1 at mid.uni-berlin.de> "Diez B. Roggisch"  writes:

>Classes are not scopes.

This looks to me like a major wart, on two counts.

First, one of the goals of OO is encapsulation, not only at the
level of instances, but also at the level of classes.  Your comment
suggests that Python does not fully support class-level encapsulation.

Second, my example shows that Python puts some peculiar restrictions
on recursion.  Recursion!  One of the central concepts in the theory
of functions!  This is shown most clearly by the following elaboration
of my original example:

class Demo(object):
    def fact_rec(n):
        if n < 2:
            return 1
        else:
            return n * fact_rec(n - 1)

    def fact_iter(n):
        ret = 1
        for i in range(1, n + 1):
            ret *= i
        return ret

    classvar1 = fact_iter(5)
    classvar2 = fact_rec(5)

This code won't compile as shown, but it does compile if the last
line (the call to the recursive fact_rec) is commented out.  There
is no justification for discriminating against recursive functions
in this context.  Recursive functions should be OK wherever functions
are OK.  I can't think of any other language that allows recursion
but not anywhere.

Is there any good reason (from the point of view of Python's overall
design) for not fixing this?

kynn



From chris0wj at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 07:25:13 2009
From: chris0wj at gmail.com (Chris)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 04:25:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: multiprocessing managers and socket connection.
References: <722664f1-81af-45da-ae40-070bca8f3ee0@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<0af6687a-e36d-47c3-af5e-7e66eacbb3ce@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7d8f3f17-3cd7-4eb1-b049-2990d638cc46@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 25, 9:11?pm, Terry  wrote:
> On Aug 25, 10:14?pm, Chris  wrote:
>
>
>
> > I've been using multiprocessing managers and I really like the
> > functionality.
>
> > I have a question about reconnecting to a manager. I have a situation
> > where I start on one machine (A) a manager that is listening and then
> > on another machine (B) connects to that manager and uses its proxy
> > object to call functions on the manager's computer; this all works as
> > expected. But, if the manager from A shuts down, B's application won't
> > notice because in the MP code it ignores socket error
> > errno.ECONNREFUSED. If A becomes available again or is restarted, B
> > doesn't automatically reconnect either and continue its operation.
> > It's function is basically stopped.
>
> > Here is the code from connection.py:
> > while 1:
> > ? ? ? ? try:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? s.connect(address)
> > ? ? ? ? except socket.error, e:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? if e.args[0] != errno.ECONNREFUSED: # connection refused
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? debug('failed to connect to address %s', address)
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? raise
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? time.sleep(0.01)
> > ? ? ? ? else:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? break
>
> > How can I have B automatically reconnect to A and continue its work
> > once A is available again?
>
> I think you need to retry repeatedly until successfully connected.
>
> br, Terry

I'm having issue after once connected. If the server goes down during
a long-running connection. I would want to be notified so I could try
to reconnect. I'm doing more experimenting now and will try to post an
example.


From tibor.beck at hotmail.com  Wed Aug 26 07:44:25 2009
From: tibor.beck at hotmail.com (gentlestone)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 04:44:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Usefull python tutorial
Message-ID: <0bd7592d-d705-4938-b13d-61157d7fbc7a@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

Can somebody give me an advise where I can found a really good online
tutorial? All I found are useless. For example no tutorial I found
explains this piece of code:

    someList = [element for element in otherList if element is not
None]

or this example:

    a = a or []

There are only stupid elementary examples in the tutorials I found.


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 07:52:43 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 04:52:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> 
	
Message-ID: <16b72319-8023-471c-ba40-8025aa6d462e@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 26, 3:57?am, kj  wrote:
> In <7figv3F2m3p0... at mid.uni-berlin.de> "Diez B. Roggisch"  writes:
>
> >Classes are not scopes.
>
> This looks to me like a major wart, on two counts.

Class statements *are* scopes, they are just not accessible from
scopes nested within them.


> First, one of the goals of OO is encapsulation, not only at the
> level of instances, but also at the level of classes. ?Your comment
> suggests that Python does not fully support class-level encapsulation.

I can't answer this, I don't even know what you are talking about.
The OO notion of encapsulation that I'm familar means that an object
can seal off access to private data.  This has nothing to do with
class statement scoping.


> Second, my example shows that Python puts some peculiar restrictions
> on recursion. ?Recursion! ?One of the central concepts in the theory
> of functions! ?This is shown most clearly by the following elaboration
> of my original example:
>
> class Demo(object):
> ? ? def fact_rec(n):
> ? ? ? ? if n < 2:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? return 1
> ? ? ? ? else:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? return n * fact_rec(n - 1)
>
> ? ? def fact_iter(n):
> ? ? ? ? ret = 1
> ? ? ? ? for i in range(1, n + 1):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ret *= i
> ? ? ? ? return ret
>
> ? ? classvar1 = fact_iter(5)
> ? ? classvar2 = fact_rec(5)
>
> This code won't compile as shown, but it does compile if the last
> line (the call to the recursive fact_rec) is commented out. ?There
> is no justification for discriminating against recursive functions
> in this context. ?Recursive functions should be OK wherever functions
> are OK. ?I can't think of any other language that allows recursion
> but not anywhere.

Inside class statements are not the place for this kind of thing.
Define functions like fact_rec outside the class statement.


> Is there any good reason (from the point of view of Python's overall
> design) for not fixing this?

I suspect that no reason, however profound, would satisfy you.
Therefore I will merely answer your question without fanfare, and you
can take it as you will.

1. One of the key aspects of Python's design is that attributes must
be accessed explicitly with dot notation.  Accessing class scopes from
nested functions would (seemingly) allow access to class attributes
without the dotted notation.  Therefore it is not allowed.

2. This is considered more important that your ability to define
recursive functions in the class statement.


Carl Banks


From cevomed at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 07:53:01 2009
From: cevomed at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-9?Q?Cevahir_Demirk=FDran?=)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 13:53:01 +0200
Subject: Division and right shift in python
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3f74e020908251648k7b391a09g78b155507b2f23c4@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <3f74e020908260453p181d8134va4047019b60831b1@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the answer.
Run it with a big number:
f2(9230821908403878236537264867326482638462035732098490238409328947638257462745672354627356427356742563256745362772537532756732673275732,9)

I had this result:

8.1015883211e-06
1.06158743591e-05
512

2009/8/26 Mark Tolonen 
>

>
> "Cevahir Demirkiran"  wrote in message
> news:3f74e020908251648k7b391a09g78b155507b2f23c4 at mail.gmail.com...
>
>  Hi,
>>
>> I would like to do a floor division by a power of 2 in python to make it
>> faster than / (modular division in 2.x).
>> However, it is slower.
>> What is the reason of that?
>> I checked them via:
>>
>> def f2(x,n):
>>   t1 = clock()
>>   r = x/pow(2,n)
>>   t2 = clock()
>>   print (t2-t1)
>>   print r
>>   t2 = clock()
>>   r = x>>n
>>   t3 = clock()
>>   print (t3-t2)
>>   print r
>>
>>
> It's not slower on my system, but note the inconsistent results also:
>
>  f2(1024,5)
>>>>
>>> 3.47396033483e-06
> 32
> 2.19077375482e-06
> 32
>
>> f2(1024,5)
>>>>
>>> 4.84135603429e-06
> 32
> 3.08499440393e-06
> 32
>
>> f2(1024,5)
>>>>
>>> 4.6782844052e-06
> 32
> 3.77604384028e-06
> 32
>
> Time it with timeit...
>
> C:\>python -m timeit -n 10000000 -s x=1024 "x>>5"
> 10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.113 usec per loop
>
> C:\>python -m timeit -n 10000000 -s x=1024 "x/pow(2,5)"
> 10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.468 usec per loop
>
> Right-shift is over 4x faster.
>
> -Mark
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>



-- 
Cevahir Demirkiran
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From clp2 at rebertia.com  Wed Aug 26 08:11:25 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 05:11:25 -0700
Subject: Usefull python tutorial
In-Reply-To: <0bd7592d-d705-4938-b13d-61157d7fbc7a@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <0bd7592d-d705-4938-b13d-61157d7fbc7a@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908260511u7445f434x6fc8481c2bb5c305@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 4:44 AM, gentlestone wrote:
> Can somebody give me an advise where I can found a really good online
> tutorial? All I found are useless. For example no tutorial I found
> explains this piece of code:
>
> ? ?someList = [element for element in otherList if element is not
> None]

See http://docs.python.org/tutorial/datastructures.html#list-comprehensions

> or this example:
>
> ? ?a = a or []

That's a bit more obscure, and I'm not entirely surprised it's not in
a tutorial:
http://docs.python.org/reference/expressions.html#boolean-operations


You might want to try the official tutorial (unless it's the one
you're complaining about):
http://docs.python.org/tutorial/index.html

I've also heard good things about Dive Into Python:
http://diveintopython.org/

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From cevomed at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 08:17:48 2009
From: cevomed at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-9?Q?Cevahir_Demirk=FDran?=)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 14:17:48 +0200
Subject: Division and right shift in python
In-Reply-To: <3f74e020908260453p181d8134va4047019b60831b1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3f74e020908251648k7b391a09g78b155507b2f23c4@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<3f74e020908260453p181d8134va4047019b60831b1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3f74e020908260517y77d6824esa9813b64031f5bf8@mail.gmail.com>

The previous one was slower but now it is faster.
How can I make this more consistent?
Why cannot I control it?

Where can I find  the algorithms implemented under for example pow, /, %,
etc.?
I could not see them in python documentation?

f2(281367918279371279712863756486284619792197836426862028028824908239084023984967328564836783686836834628136791827937127971286375648628461979219783642686202802882490823908402398496732856483678368683683462813679182793712797128637564862846197921978364268620280288249082390840239849673285648367836868368346,9)

8.3809534317e-06
6.70476276809e-06
512

Thanks in advance,


26 A?ustos 2009 13:53 tarihinde Cevahir Demirk?ran yazd?:

> Thanks for the answer.
> Run it with a big number:
>
> f2(9230821908403878236537264867326482638462035732098490238409328947638257462745672354627356427356742563256745362772537532756732673275732,9)
>
> I had this result:
>
> 8.1015883211e-06
> 1.06158743591e-05
> 512
>
> 2009/8/26 Mark Tolonen 
> >
>
>
>> "Cevahir Demirkiran"  wrote in message
>> news:3f74e020908251648k7b391a09g78b155507b2f23c4 at mail.gmail.com...
>>
>>  Hi,
>>>
>>> I would like to do a floor division by a power of 2 in python to make it
>>> faster than / (modular division in 2.x).
>>> However, it is slower.
>>> What is the reason of that?
>>> I checked them via:
>>>
>>> def f2(x,n):
>>>   t1 = clock()
>>>   r = x/pow(2,n)
>>>   t2 = clock()
>>>   print (t2-t1)
>>>   print r
>>>   t2 = clock()
>>>   r = x>>n
>>>   t3 = clock()
>>>   print (t3-t2)
>>>   print r
>>>
>>>
>> It's not slower on my system, but note the inconsistent results also:
>>
>>  f2(1024,5)
>>>>>
>>>> 3.47396033483e-06
>> 32
>> 2.19077375482e-06
>> 32
>>
>>>  f2(1024,5)
>>>>>
>>>> 4.84135603429e-06
>> 32
>> 3.08499440393e-06
>> 32
>>
>>>  f2(1024,5)
>>>>>
>>>> 4.6782844052e-06
>> 32
>> 3.77604384028e-06
>> 32
>>
>> Time it with timeit...
>>
>> C:\>python -m timeit -n 10000000 -s x=1024 "x>>5"
>> 10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.113 usec per loop
>>
>> C:\>python -m timeit -n 10000000 -s x=1024 "x/pow(2,5)"
>> 10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.468 usec per loop
>>
>> Right-shift is over 4x faster.
>>
>> -Mark
>>
>>
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Cevahir Demirkiran
>



-- 
Cevahir Demirkiran
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From simon at brunningonline.net  Wed Aug 26 08:17:57 2009
From: simon at brunningonline.net (Simon Brunning)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 13:17:57 +0100
Subject: Usefull python tutorial
In-Reply-To: <0bd7592d-d705-4938-b13d-61157d7fbc7a@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <0bd7592d-d705-4938-b13d-61157d7fbc7a@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8c7f10c60908260517q6819c17qd5bd6070b02eace9@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/26 gentlestone :
> Can somebody give me an advise where I can found a really good online
> tutorial? All I found are useless.

 is really good, as I remember, as
is .

 For example no tutorial I found
> explains this piece of code:
>
> ? ?someList = [element for element in otherList if element is not
> None]


or 

> or this example:
>
> ? ?a = a or []

Strangely not in the tutorial:
.

-- 
Cheers,
Simon B.


From davea at ieee.org  Wed Aug 26 08:18:15 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 08:18:15 -0400
Subject: Division and right shift in python
In-Reply-To: 
References: <3f74e020908251648k7b391a09g78b155507b2f23c4@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <4A952807.5090608@ieee.org>

Mark Tolonen wrote:
> 

> "Cevahir Demirkiran"  wrote in message 
> news:3f74e020908251648k7b391a09g78b155507b2f23c4 at mail.gmail.com...
>> Hi,
>>
>> I would like to do a floor division by a power of 2 in python to make it
>> faster than / (modular division in 2.x).
>> However, it is slower.
>> What is the reason of that?
>> I checked them via:
>>
>> def f2(x,n):
>>    t1 = clock()
>>    r = x/pow(2,n)
>>    t2 = clock()
>>    print (t2-t1)
>>    print r
>>    t2 = clock()
>>    r = x>>n
>>    t3 = clock()
>>    print (t3-t2)
>>    print r
>>
>
> It's not slower on my system, but note the inconsistent results also:
>
>>>> f2(1024,5)
> 3.47396033483e-06
> 32
> 2.19077375482e-06
> 32
>>>> f2(1024,5)
> 4.84135603429e-06
> 32
> 3.08499440393e-06
> 32
>>>> f2(1024,5)
> 4.6782844052e-06
> 32
> 3.77604384028e-06
> 32
>
> Time it with timeit...
>
> C:\>python -m timeit -n 10000000 -s x=1024 "x>>5"
> 10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.113 usec per loop
>
> C:\>python -m timeit -n 10000000 -s x=1024 "x/pow(2,5)"
> 10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.468 usec per loop
>
> Right-shift is over 4x faster.
>
> -Mark
>
>
>
> 

>
There have been languages and processors in which right shift has been 
notably faster than divide.  But with Python on a Pentium, you're both 
just measuring overhead.  The actual divide or shift is probably less 
than 5% of the time measured.

And that overhead will vary between versions of the interpreter.  I 
measured with Python 2.6.2 on Windows XP, and got

C:\>python -m timeit -n 10000000 -s x=1024 "x>>5"
10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.112 usec per loop

C:\>python -m timeit -n 10000000 -s x=1024 "x/pow(2,5)"
10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.384 usec per loop

But the real overhead is in the function call to pow().  If that had 
been precalculated, then the time for divide is nearly as fast as for 
right shift.

C:\>python -m timeit -n 10000000 -s x=1024 "x/32"
10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.135 usec per loop

And I suspect that some other implementation might well show this 
quicker than the right shift.

I would use whichever code most clearly represents the problem being 
solved.  There are undoubtedly other ways to speed up the code, without 
trying to micro-optimize one expression.

DaveA


From davea at ieee.org  Wed Aug 26 08:34:26 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 08:34:26 -0400
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	
	
Message-ID: <4A952BD2.8010608@ieee.org>

Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>   
>> class Color:
>>     def __init__(self, r, g,b):
>>           pass
>>     BLACK = Color(0,0,0)
>>
>> It make sens from a design point of view to put BLACK in the Color
>> namespace. But I don't think it's possible with python.
>>     
>
> class Color:
>     ...
>
> setattrib(Color, "BLACK", Color(0,0,0))
>
> Uli
>
>   
Or instead of setattrib,

Color.BLACK = Color(0,0,0)

DaveA


From IDOL at il.ibm.com  Wed Aug 26 08:38:50 2009
From: IDOL at il.ibm.com (Ido Levy)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:38:50 +0300
Subject: pygtk - What is the best way to change the mouse pointer
Message-ID: 

Hello All,

I am writing a dialog which one of its widget is a gtk.ComboBoxEntry ( 
let's assume widget in the example below is its instance )
When the user select one of the values from the gtk.ComboBoxEntry I need 
to run some calculations that takes a few seconds.
In order to reflect calculation time to the user I want to switch the 
mouse pointer to an hour glass and back to arrow what it finish the 
calculation.

I use the following code but it doesn't seems to work in a deterministic 
way. From time to time it skips the last line and keep the mouse pointer 
as an hour glass.

        watch = gtk.gdk.Cursor(gtk.gdk.WATCH)
        widget.window.set_cursor(watch)

        calculation code

        widget.window.set_cursor(None)

I would appreciate your advice on the right way to implement this.

Thanks

Ido
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From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Aug 26 08:40:56 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 13:40:56 +0100
Subject: Move dictionary from instance to class level
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	
	
Message-ID: <4A952D58.2050807@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Frank Millman wrote:
> On Aug 26, 10:54 am, Chris Rebert  wrote:
>> On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 1:22 AM, Frank Millman wrote:
>>
>> A
>>
>> class MyClass(object):
>>     def on_message_received(self, msg):
>>         self.method_dict[msg](self)
>>
>>     def method_0(self):
>>         print 'in method_0'
>>
>>     def method_1(self):
>>         print 'in method_1'
>>         method_dict
>>
>>     method_dict = {0: method_0, 1: method_1}
>>     #note this comes *after* the methods in question have been defined
>>
> 
> Thanks, Chris. This is much better.
> 
>> Is there some reason you aren't using a list instead of a dict?
>> e.g. method_dict = [method_0, method_1, method_2, etc]
>>
>> For that matter, why are you associating methods with integers in the
>> first place?
>>
> 
> I actually use constants to define my messages, like this -
> 
> (MESSAGE_ONE
> ,MESSAGE_TWO
> ,MESSAGE_THREE
> ) = xrange(3)
> 
> I can then refer to the messages by their description, but internally it 
> uses integers.
> 
An alternative is:

 >>> class MyClass(object):
...     def on_message_received(self, msg):
...         try:
...             getattr(self, "method_%d" % msg)()
...         except AttributeError:
...             raise Exception("Unknown message")
...     def method_0(self):
...         print 'in method_0'
...     def method_1(self):
...         print 'in method_1'
...
 >>> my_obj = MyClass()
 >>> my_obj.on_message_received(0)
in method_0
 >>> my_obj.on_message_received(1)
in method_1
 >>> my_obj.on_message_received(2)
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "", line 1, in 
   File "", line 6, in on_message_received
Exception: Unknown message
 >>>


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Wed Aug 26 08:45:23 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 22:45:23 +1000
Subject: ubuntu dist-packages
References: 
Message-ID: <87tyzueobg.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Robin Becker  writes:

> What is the relation between dist-packages/site-packages if any? Is
> this just a name change or is there some other problem being
> addressed?

The problem being addressed is to maintain the distinction between
OS-vendor-managed files versus sysadmin-managed files. That is, the
distinction between:

* Python packages installed by the operating system package manager (the
  OS ?distribution?, as distinct from the Python-specific meaning of
  that term); versus

* Python packages installed by the site administrator, outside the
  purview of the OS package manager.

This distinction is important in operating systems with a functioning
package manager.

> For developers is it best just to create one's own private
> installations from the original tarballs?

Developers should be making changes as neither the system administrator
nor the OS package manager, but as a regular user of the system. So
installing to a user-specific package location seems best.

-- 
 \                              ?Holy rising hemlines, Batman!? ?Robin |
  `\                                                                   |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From szport at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 08:51:20 2009
From: szport at gmail.com (zaur)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 05:51:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Object's nesting scope
Message-ID: 

Hi folk!

What do you think about idea of "object's nesting scope" in python?

Let's imaging this feature, for example, in this syntax:

obj=:
     

or

:
   

That's means that result object of  evaluation is used as
nested scope for  evaluation.

So is this idea useful?

Zaur


From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Wed Aug 26 09:02:04 2009
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 14:02:04 +0100
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
Message-ID: 

kj wrote:

> First, one of the goals of OO is encapsulation, not only at the
> level of instances, but also at the level of classes.
Who says?
Anyway, you could be right (I am not capable to judge it) and Python 
should change on this issue but from what I gathered, Pythons OO is 
inspired by the following:
- Don't repeat yourself
- Containing code into logical units makes it easier to understand and 
maintain.

Note the absence of 'OO is defined as X so we are going to do X without 
thinking if X is actually the best way to do it'

> Your comment suggests that Python does not fully support 
> class-level encapsulation.
Probably right too, but being intrigued, why is that necessary, and 
given an example is that the best way to do it?

> Second, my example shows that Python puts some peculiar restrictions
> on recursion.  Recursion!  One of the central concepts in the theory
> of functions!  

It is also one of the best ways to shoot yourself in the foot, but I ask 
you again, is the reason why you encountered this 'limitation' actually 
the best way to solve your problem?

Please forgive my incompetence if this reply sounds harsh and patronizing.

-- 
MPH
http://blog.dcuktec.com
'If consumed, best digested with added seasoning to own preference.'


From grahn+nntp at snipabacken.se  Wed Aug 26 09:09:15 2009
From: grahn+nntp at snipabacken.se (Jorgen Grahn)
Date: 26 Aug 2009 13:09:15 GMT
Subject: Code formatting question: conditional expression
References: 
	<421c8c9d-efb5-4e70-9321-51736b42bc9a@g10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<46c5c882-c38b-4439-a3cf-62783309cc08@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	<877hwrf4vu.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 16:47:33 +1000, Ben Finney
 wrote:
> "Nicola Larosa (tekNico)"  writes:
>
>> Nicola Larosa wrote:
>> > Here's my take:
>> >
>> > ? ? excessblk = Block(total - P.BASE, srccol,
>> > carry_button_suppress=True
>> > ? ? ? ? ) if total > P.BASE else None
>>
>> Oops, it got shortened out: line longer than 72 chars, acceptable in
>> code, but not in email. I'll try again.
>
> Fine in email; just munged on your behalf (and probably without your
> knowledge) by your email service provider. If you don't want that
> happening, it's probably best to avoid Google Mail.

But this is Usenet (or at least it gets gatewayed there) and there
are such limits here (either by common agreement or by RFC).
Probably not Google's fault.

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn    O  o   .


From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Aug 26 09:13:49 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:13:49 +0200
Subject: Object's nesting scope
References: 
Message-ID: <7fkqodF2llnghU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

zaur wrote:

> Hi folk!
> 
> What do you think about idea of "object's nesting scope" in python?
> 
> Let's imaging this feature, for example, in this syntax:
> 
> obj=:
>      
> 
> or
> 
> :
>    
> 
> That's means that result object of  evaluation is used as
> nested scope for  evaluation.
> 
> So is this idea useful?

Whom am we to judge? Sure if you propose this, you have some usecases in
mind - how about you present these?

Diez


From bbxx789_05ss at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 26 09:28:28 2009
From: bbxx789_05ss at yahoo.com (7stud)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 06:28:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	 
	
Message-ID: <8219d86d-cf0b-457f-b823-550dcf7cbf71@p36g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 25, 7:26?pm, Dave Angel  wrote:
> Stephen Fairchild wrote:
> > You are trying to run code in a class that does not exist yet.
>
> > def Demo():
> > ? ? def fact(n):
> > ? ? ? ? if n < 2:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? return 1
> > ? ? ? ? else:
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? return n * fact(n - 1)
> > ? ? return type("Demo", (object,), {"fact": staticmethod(fact), "_classvar":
> > fact(5)})
> > Demo = Demo()
>
> > d = Demo()
> > print d._classvar ? ?# prints 120
> > print d.fact(7) ? ? ?# prints 5040
> > print Demo ? ? ? ? ? # prints 
>
>
>
> In all these messages, something I haven't seen pointed out is that
> fact() has no self argument. ?
>

An "argument" is something that is specified in the the function
call.  I assume you are trying to state something like, "fact() is not
defined with a parameter variable named self".  However, that has
never been a requirement in python:


class A(object):

    def fact(n):
        print n

    fact("hello")


a = A()
a.fact()

--output:--
hello
<__main__.A object at 0x7faf0>





From jawad.karachi2010 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 09:29:31 2009
From: jawad.karachi2010 at gmail.com (Jawad Alam)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 06:29:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: "JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN ALASKA" "JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN 
	ALASKA" "jobs in alaska anchorage" "jobs in alaska oil" "jobs in alaska
	usa" "jobs in alaska mines" ON http://jobs-in-alaska.blogspot.com/
Message-ID: 

"JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN ALASKA" "JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN
ALASKA" "jobs in alaska anchorage" "jobs in alaska oil" "jobs in
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"JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN ALASKA" "JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN
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"JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN ALASKA" "JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN
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"JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN ALASKA" "JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN
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"JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN ALASKA" "JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN
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"JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN ALASKA" "JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN
ALASKA" "jobs in alaska anchorage" "jobs in alaska oil" "jobs in
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"JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN ALASKA" "JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN
ALASKA" "jobs in alaska anchorage" "jobs in alaska oil" "jobs in
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"JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN ALASKA" "JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN
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"JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN ALASKA" "JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN
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"JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN ALASKA" "JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN
ALASKA" "jobs in alaska anchorage" "jobs in alaska oil" "jobs in
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"JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN ALASKA" "JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN
ALASKA" "jobs in alaska anchorage" "jobs in alaska oil" "jobs in
alaska usa" "jobs in alaska mines" ON http://jobs-in-alaska.blogspot.com/
"JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN ALASKA" "JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN
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"JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN ALASKA" "JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN
ALASKA" "jobs in alaska anchorage" "jobs in alaska oil" "jobs in
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"JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN ALASKA" "JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN
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"JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN ALASKA" "JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN
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"JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN ALASKA" "JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN
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"JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN ALASKA" "JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN
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"JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN ALASKA" "JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN
ALASKA" "jobs in alaska anchorage" "jobs in alaska oil" "jobs in
alaska usa" "jobs in alaska mines" ON http://jobs-in-alaska.blogspot.com/
"JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN ALASKA" "JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN
ALASKA" "jobs in alaska anchorage" "jobs in alaska oil" "jobs in
alaska usa" "jobs in alaska mines" ON http://jobs-in-alaska.blogspot.com/
"JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN ALASKA" "JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN
ALASKA" "jobs in alaska anchorage" "jobs in alaska oil" "jobs in
alaska usa" "jobs in alaska mines" ON http://jobs-in-alaska.blogspot.com/
"JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN ALASKA" "JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN
ALASKA" "jobs in alaska anchorage" "jobs in alaska oil" "jobs in
alaska usa" "jobs in alaska mines" ON http://jobs-in-alaska.blogspot.com/
"JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN ALASKA" "JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN
ALASKA" "jobs in alaska anchorage" "jobs in alaska oil" "jobs in
alaska usa" "jobs in alaska mines" ON http://jobs-in-alaska.blogspot.com/
"JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN ALASKA" "JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN
ALASKA" "jobs in alaska anchorage" "jobs in alaska oil" "jobs in
alaska usa" "jobs in alaska mines" ON http://jobs-in-alaska.blogspot.com/
"JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN ALASKA" "JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN
ALASKA" "jobs in alaska anchorage" "jobs in alaska oil" "jobs in
alaska usa" "jobs in alaska mines" ON http://jobs-in-alaska.blogspot.com/
"JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN ALASKA" "JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN
ALASKA" "jobs in alaska anchorage" "jobs in alaska oil" "jobs in
alaska usa" "jobs in alaska mines" ON http://jobs-in-alaska.blogspot.com/
"JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN ALASKA" "JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN
ALASKA" "jobs in alaska anchorage" "jobs in alaska oil" "jobs in
alaska usa" "jobs in alaska mines" ON http://jobs-in-alaska.blogspot.com/
"JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN ALASKA" "JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN
ALASKA" "jobs in alaska anchorage" "jobs in alaska oil" "jobs in
alaska usa" "jobs in alaska mines" ON http://jobs-in-alaska.blogspot.com/
"JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN ALASKA" "JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN
ALASKA" "jobs in alaska anchorage" "jobs in alaska oil" "jobs in
alaska usa" "jobs in alaska mines" ON http://jobs-in-alaska.blogspot.com/
"JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN ALASKA" "JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN
ALASKA" "jobs in alaska anchorage" "jobs in alaska oil" "jobs in
alaska usa" "jobs in alaska mines" ON http://jobs-in-alaska.blogspot.com/
"JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN ALASKA" "JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN
ALASKA" "jobs in alaska anchorage" "jobs in alaska oil" "jobs in
alaska usa" "jobs in alaska mines" ON http://jobs-in-alaska.blogspot.com/
"JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN ALASKA" "JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN
ALASKA" "jobs in alaska anchorage" "jobs in alaska oil" "jobs in
alaska usa" "jobs in alaska mines" ON http://jobs-in-alaska.blogspot.com/
"JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN ALASKA" "JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN
ALASKA" "jobs in alaska anchorage" "jobs in alaska oil" "jobs in
alaska usa" "jobs in alaska mines" ON http://jobs-in-alaska.blogspot.com/
"JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN ALASKA" "JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN
ALASKA" "jobs in alaska anchorage" "jobs in alaska oil" "jobs in
alaska usa" "jobs in alaska mines" ON http://jobs-in-alaska.blogspot.com/
"JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN ALASKA" "JOBS IN ALASKA IT" "JOBS IN
ALASKA" "jobs in alaska anchorage" "jobs in alaska oil" "jobs in
alaska usa" "jobs in alaska mines" ON http://jobs-in-alaska.blogspot.com/
V


From bbxx789_05ss at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 26 09:31:48 2009
From: bbxx789_05ss at yahoo.com (7stud)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 06:31:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: print() and unicode strings (python 3.1)
References: <4eda8137-7db9-4c39-a2c1-3477b071f7f6@x5g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<4a92b83b$0$27209$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	
	<4a92fb02$0$2582$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	
	
	<84154e6e-c425-4b71-89e3-7d2877a19418@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <811decac-b086-4ca1-af03-84c33819a710@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 25, 6:34?am, Nobody  wrote:
> The underlying OS primitive can only handle bytes. If you read or write a
> (unicode) string, Python needs to know which encoding is used. For Python
> file objects created by the user (via open() etc), you can specify the
> encoding; for those created by the runtime (e.g. sys.stdin), Python uses
> the locale's LC_CTYPE category to select an encoding.
>
> Data written to or read from text streams is encoded or decoded using the
> stream's encoding. Filenames are encoded and decoded using the
> filesystem encoding (sys.getfilesystemencoding()). Anything else uses the
> default encoding (sys.getdefaultencoding()).
>
> In Python 3, text streams are handled using io.TextIOWrapper:
>
> ? ? ? ?http://docs.python.org/3.1/library/io.html#text-i-o
>
> This implements a stream which can read and/or write text data on top of
> one which can read and/or write binary data. The sys.std{in,out,err}
> streams are instances of TextIOWrapper. You can get the underlying
> binary stream from the "buffer" attribute, e.g.:
>
> ? ? ? ? sys.stdout.buffer.write(b'hello world\n')
>
> If you need to force a specific encoding (e.g. if the user has specified
> an encoding via a command-line option), you can detach the existing
> wrapper and create a new one, e.g.:
>
> ? ? ? ? sys.stdout = io.TextIOWrapper(sys.stdout.detach(), encoding = new_encoding)

Thanks for the details.


From mdekauwe at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 09:34:59 2009
From: mdekauwe at gmail.com (Mart.)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 06:34:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Help with arrays
References: 
	
	 
	
Message-ID: <391bbc0f-08ea-4840-a2da-cb36b5632669@m38g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 26, 3:02 am, Dave Angel  wrote:
> Stephen Fairchild wrote:
> > Philip Semanchuk wrote:
>
> >> On Aug 25, 2009, at 6:14 PM, Gleb Belov wrote:
>
> >>> Hello! I'm working on an exercise wherein I have to write a Guess The
> >>> Number game, but it's the computer who's guessing MY number. I can get
> >>> it to work, but there's one obvious problem: the computer generates
> >>> random numbers until one of them corresponds to my number, but it will
> >>> often generate one number (eg. 4) numerous times, meaning it doesn't
> >>> know that this number is invalid. What I mean is, it will sometimes
> >>> use 37 tries to guess a number out of 1 - 9, which makes no sense,
> >>> since it should only take 9 tries, at most. I was trying to find a way
> >>> to make a dynamic list of all the numbers the computer generates in
> >>> the loop and then make it re-generate the number if the previous
> >>> number is present in the list, so it doesn't keep on generating 4 (as
> >>> an example). I don't know if that makes sense... Basically, we humans
> >>> know that once something is incorrect, there's no point in trying to
> >>> use it as the answer next time, because we already know it's
> >>> incorrect. How do I go about coding this in Python? I'm still quite
> >>> new to the language so any help will be appreciated...
>
> >> One cheap way to do it (not necessarily efficient) is to make a list
> >> of your possible guesses (e.g. range(1,10)), use random.shuffle() to
> >> put them in random order and then run through the guesses one at a time.
>
> > import random
> > import time
>
> > l = range(1, 10)
>
> > while l:
> >     print l.pop(random.randint(0, len(l) - 1))
> >     time.sleep(2)
>
> While both of these will work well, I'd point out that a direct
> translation of your question is to use a set.  Define an empty set, and
> each time you try a number unsuccessfully, add it to the set.  Then just use
>        while x in myset:
>                x = newguess()
>
> to find the next guess.  This approach isn't as efficient, but it's a
> useful paradigm to understand.
>
> A separate question is whether the human is supposed to tell the
> computer whether the guess is high or low.  If so, you can eliminate
> many numbers on each guess.   For example, suppose the solution is 8.  A
> guess of 5 would say "too low."  Then you'd cross off now only 5 but 1-4
> as well.
>
> With this change the best solution changes from a random shuffle to a
> binary search.
>
> DaveA

That's a good point if you can define whether the computer has guessed
too low/high, then you could use the previous guess to set a bounds
and rescale the next random guess.

min + (random_number * max)

although I think random.randomint does this for you!


From no.email at please.post  Wed Aug 26 09:57:23 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 13:57:23 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	
Message-ID: 

In  "Martin P. Hellwig"  writes:

>kj wrote:
>
>> First, one of the goals of OO is encapsulation, not only at the
>> level of instances, but also at the level of classes.
>Who says?

Python itself: it already offers a limited form of class encapsulation
(e.g. class variables).  It would be nice if it went all the way
and gave classes their own bona fide scope.  (But I hasten to add:
I *still* don't understand the Python scope model, and not for lack
of trying.  I've only succeeded in finding fragments of this model
explained here and there, like pottery shards: a bit lost in a
tutorial, or some comment in a newsgroup thread, etc.  Maybe the
full, authoritative documentation of Python's scope model got lost
somewhere, and will be found by archaeologists in the 25th century...)

>Anyway, you could be right (I am not capable to judge it) and Python 
>should change on this issue but from what I gathered, Pythons OO is 
>inspired by the following:
>- Don't repeat yourself
>- Containing code into logical units makes it easier to understand and 
>maintain.

...except, apparently, when that code is a recursive function, in
which case one's out of luck.

>> Second, my example shows that Python puts some peculiar restrictions
>> on recursion.  Recursion!  One of the central concepts in the theory
>> of functions!  
>
>It is also one of the best ways to shoot yourself in the foot...

If recursion is so evil, and Python so intent in saving us from
shooting ourselves in the foot, why does it allow recursion at all?

kynn


From no.email at please.post  Wed Aug 26 10:09:57 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 14:09:57 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	<16b72319-8023-471c-ba40-8025aa6d462e@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

In <16b72319-8023-471c-ba40-8025aa6d462e at a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> Carl Banks  writes:


>> First, one of the goals of OO is encapsulation, not only at the
>> level of instances, but also at the level of classes. =A0Your comment
>> suggests that Python does not fully support class-level encapsulation.

>I can't answer this, I don't even know what you are talking about.

Yes, you do.  As I said in another post, Python offers some degree
of class-level encapsulation (e.g. class variables).  But it is
limited by the fact that these class-encapsulated elements can't
always be accessed from within the class itself, which is kind of
silly.

>1. One of the key aspects of Python's design is that attributes must
>be accessed explicitly with dot notation.  Accessing class scopes from
>nested functions would (seemingly) allow access to class attributes
>without the dotted notation.  Therefore it is not allowed.

It would be trivial to define a keyword (e.g. this, or if you
prefer, __this__), valid only within a class statement, and that
the interpreter would recognize as "the current class", even before
this class is full defined.

kynn


From nobody at nowhere.com  Wed Aug 26 10:18:28 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:18:28 +0100
Subject: os.popen output different from native shell output
References: <8119e546-b54d-4e72-b8b7-d1f3d104670f@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 11:42:31 -0700, nickname wrote:

> The reason why I want to do this is because I am going to do a little
> project. I will write a python script called ls which will log the
> time and username and then will show the actual ls output. I want this
> to be transparent and so want to throw the ls output (via python)
> exactly as it will be in native shell execution.

If your script doesn't need the "ls" output for its own purposes, just run
"ls" with its output to the terminal, rather than into a pipe. I.e. don't
use os.popen(), but use os.spawnvp(), os.execvp() or subprocess.call().

If running "ls" is the very last thing which your script does, use
os.execvp(). This causes the program to be executed in the existing
process, rather than spawning a child process and waiting for it to exit.

Because they replace the existing program (the Python interpreter), the
various os.exec* functions don't return (unless there's an error). If you
need to perform any action after the command completes (e.g. log the
execution time), you need to use one of the other functions instead.



From andre.cohen at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 10:19:42 2009
From: andre.cohen at gmail.com (Andre)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 07:19:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Zlib: correct checksum but error decompressing
Message-ID: <99c381ef-a146-4545-9344-7b15d60441de@y20g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>

I have been trying to solve this issue for a while now. I receive data
from a TCP connection which is compressed. I know the correct checksum
for the data and both the client and server generate the same
checksum. However, in Python when it comes to decompressing the data I
get the exception: "Error -5 while decompressing data"! I would assume
that if the string in python is equivalent to the correct checksum
than the decompress function should also work on the same string, but
that's clearly not the case.

# convert data to a byte array
data = array('b', raw_data)
# print checksum for visual inspection
print zlib.crc32(data.tostring())
# try to decompress, but fails!
str = zlib.decompress(data.tostring())

Does anyone know what's going on?


From davea at ieee.org  Wed Aug 26 10:31:31 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 10:31:31 -0400
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: <8219d86d-cf0b-457f-b823-550dcf7cbf71@p36g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
References: 	
	
	<8219d86d-cf0b-457f-b823-550dcf7cbf71@p36g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A954743.4070804@ieee.org>

7stud wrote:
> On Aug 25, 7:26 pm, Dave Angel  wrote:
>   
>> Stephen Fairchild wrote:
>>     
>>> You are trying to run code in a class that does not exist yet.
>>>       
>>> def Demo():
>>>     def fact(n):
>>>         if n < 2:
>>>             return 1
>>>         else:
>>>             return n * fact(n - 1)
>>>     return type("Demo", (object,), {"fact": staticmethod(fact), "_classvar":
>>> fact(5)})
>>> Demo =emo()
>>>       
>>> d =emo()
>>> print d._classvar    # prints 120
>>> print d.fact(7)      # prints 5040
>>> print Demo           # prints 
>>>       
>>
>> In all these messages, something I haven't seen pointed out is that
>> fact() has no self argument.  
>>
>>     
>
> An "argument" is something that is specified in the the function
> call.  I assume you are trying to state something like, "fact() is not
> defined with a parameter variable named self".  However, that has
> never been a requirement in python:
>
>
> class A(object):
>
>     def fact(n):
>         print n
>
>     fact("hello")
>
>
> a =()
> a.fact()
>
> --output:--
> hello
> <__main__.A object at 0x7faf0>
>
>
>
>   
You're good at nitpicking.  I concede the distinction between argument 
and formal parameter.   And self is a convention, not a requirement.   
But the fact is that the method as written would never have worked, when 
called from outside the class, since you'd have to call it with either 
the class name or an instance, and in either case, the method was then 
trying to do arithmetic on one of those.

Thanks for diluting my point.  The OP is chasing the wrong problem.  Who 
cares whether a class initializer can call a method, if the method 
doesn't meet its original requirements, to be callable outside the class?

And the arguments about how recursion is restricted are ridiculous.  
Nothing wrong with a method calling itself, once it's got a proper 
signature.  You just have to make the call agree with the signature.  
The problem is only that the method may not be actually called until the 
class definition is complete.

DaveA



From mwilson at the-wire.com  Wed Aug 26 10:38:50 2009
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 10:38:50 -0400
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
Message-ID: 

kj wrote:

> Is there any good reason (from the point of view of Python's overall
> design) for not fixing this?

Python is not a compiled language, in the sense that a compiler can go back 
and forth over the program, filling in the details that make the program 
runnable.  Python is an interpreted language in a sense that makes a `class` 
statement an executable statement, with a start time and an end time.  
Before the start time, the affected class doesn't exist.  After the start 
time, the class does exist.  In between, while the `class` statement is 
executing, it's best to make no promises so as not to constrain present and 
future implementations.


	Mel.



From frank at chagford.com  Wed Aug 26 10:54:32 2009
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 16:54:32 +0200
Subject: Move dictionary from instance to class level
References: 	
	
Message-ID: 


"MRAB"  wrote in message 
news:mailman.444.1251290454.2854.python-list at python.org...
> An alternative is:
>
> >>> class MyClass(object):
> ...     def on_message_received(self, msg):
> ...         try:
> ...             getattr(self, "method_%d" % msg)()
> ...         except AttributeError:
> ...             raise Exception("Unknown message")
> ...     def method_0(self):
> ...         print 'in method_0'
> ...     def method_1(self):
> ...         print 'in method_1'
> ...
> >>> my_obj = MyClass()
> >>> my_obj.on_message_received(0)
> in method_0
> >>> my_obj.on_message_received(1)
> in method_1
> >>> my_obj.on_message_received(2)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "", line 1, in 
>   File "", line 6, in on_message_received
> Exception: Unknown message

I like the idea. Unfortunately my real-world situation is a little more 
complex than my simple example implied.

This is a more typical example -

    (EVT_GETLOGIN
    ,EVT_LOGOUT
    ,EVT_GETMENUOPT
    ,EVT_GOTFOCUS
    ,EVT_LOSTFOCUS
    ,EVT_BUTTONCLICKED
    ,EVT_CHECKBOX
    ...
    ) = xrange(28)

    method_dict = {}
    method_dict[EVT_GETLOGIN] = onGetLogin
    method_dict[EVT_LOGOUT] = onLogout
    method_dict[EVT_GETMENUOPT] = onGetMenuOpt
    method_dict[EVT_GOTFOCUS] = onGotFocus
    method_dict[EVT_LOSTFOCUS] = onLostFocus
    method_dict[EVT_BUTTONCLICKED] = onButtonClicked
    method_dict[EVT_CHECKBOX] = onCheckBox

You can probably figure out from my method names what I am doing here - the 
messages are sent by a thin client (wxPython), and processed by a server.I 
am anticipating some "don't do that" responses, but I like the concept, and 
so far it is very fast and responsive, so I will pursue it for now.

Thanks for the input.

Frank




From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 10:58:04 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 07:58:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> 
	
	<16b72319-8023-471c-ba40-8025aa6d462e@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <1bf83a7e-f9eb-46ff-84fe-cf42d9608e71@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 26, 7:09?am, kj  wrote:
> In <16b72319-8023-471c-ba40-8025aa6d4... at a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> Carl Banks  writes:
>
> >> First, one of the goals of OO is encapsulation, not only at the
> >> level of instances, but also at the level of classes. =A0Your comment
> >> suggests that Python does not fully support class-level encapsulation.
> >I can't answer this, I don't even know what you are talking about.
>
> Yes, you do. ?As I said in another post, Python offers some degree
> of class-level encapsulation (e.g. class variables). ?But it is
> limited by the fact that these class-encapsulated elements can't
> always be accessed from within the class itself, which is kind of
> silly.

Nope, you're wrong.  Class variables are accessible wherever a class
exists.  The apparent silliness of this is because you are confusing
classes with class statements.

You know that the class isn't created until the class statement exits,
don't you?

Yeah, it's a little surprising that you can't access class scope from
a function, but that has nothing to do with encapsulation.

> >1. One of the key aspects of Python's design is that attributes must
> >be accessed explicitly with dot notation. ?Accessing class scopes from
> >nested functions would (seemingly) allow access to class attributes
> >without the dotted notation. ?Therefore it is not allowed.
>
> It would be trivial to define a keyword (e.g. this, or if you
> prefer, __this__), valid only within a class statement, and that
> the interpreter would recognize as "the current class", even before
> this class is full defined.

Your solution to this "problem" is to add a keyword to Python.
Laughable.  (BTW, it's not trivial.)


Carl Banks


From no.email at please.post  Wed Aug 26 10:58:10 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 14:58:10 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

In  Dave Angel  writes:

>Stephen Fairchild wrote:
>> You are trying to run code in a class that does not exist yet. 
>>
>> def Demo():
>>     def fact(n):
>>         if n < 2:
>>             return 1
>>         else:
>>             return n * fact(n - 1)
>>     return type("Demo", (object,), {"fact": staticmethod(fact), "_classvar":
>> fact(5)})
>> Demo = Demo()
>>
>> d = Demo()
>> print d._classvar    # prints 120
>> print d.fact(7)      # prints 5040
>> print Demo           # prints 
>>
>>   
>In all these messages, something I haven't seen pointed out is that 
>fact() has no self argument.  Seems to me that makes it a staticmethod, 
>so it should be declared that way.

No, the fact() function here represents an internal "helper"
function.  It is meant to be called only once to help initialize
a class variable that would be inconvenient to initialize otherwise;
this helper function is not meant to be called from outside the
class statement.  Granted, in the example I gave, the "helper"
function (factorial) is a bit silly, but that was just intended as
a simple and familiar example of a recursive function.  The actual
function that motivated this post would be considerably more
difficult to explain and would have obscured the point of the post.

kynn


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Wed Aug 26 10:58:15 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 26 Aug 2009 14:58:15 GMT
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
References: 
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
	
	
	<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com>
	
	
	
	
	<02a31f91$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<44bcb727-0885-4d4f-9c11-ca60a39b0d91@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<02a3e1e2$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <02a53d89$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 11:45:28 -0700, Mensanator wrote:

> On Aug 25, 9:14?am, Steven D'Aprano  cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>> On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:01:38 -0700, Mensanator wrote:
>> >> If you want your data file to have values entered in hex, or oct, or
>> >> even unary (1=one, 11=two, 111=three, 1111=four...) you can.
>>
>> > Unary? I think you'll find that Standard Positional Number Systems
>> > are not defined for radix 1.
>>
>> Of course not. But unary isn't a positional number system. It's a tally
>> system, like my example above shows. Roman numerals are another tally
>> system. Like Roman numerals, the disadvantages of unary are that you
>> can't represent negative numbers, zero, or fractions, and anything but
>> addition and subtraction is difficult. But if you want to use it,
>> perhaps out of a sense of sadism towards your users, it's easy:
[...]
> But without insignificant leading 0's, I fail to see the relevance of
> unary to this discussion.

It was just an example of how you can use numeric data in any format, no 
matter how obscure, weird or difficult, you can use it by passing it 
through an appropriate converter. You don't need compiler support for 
user-supplied data, you just write your own function.

As for insignificant leading zeroes, such a thing is meaningless in a 
base-1 tally system. Zero is the absence of a tally mark.


> And what would you call a tally system of
> radix 2? Certainly not binary.

"Radix" isn't the correct term, because radix doesn't apply to tally 
counting systems. I'd accept "base 2", in the sense that the tally is 
based on two different marks. We do something similar when we mark four 
tally lines, then for five we mark a diagonal line through the previous 
four. So by analogy a base-2 tally could go:

/     one
X     two
X/    three
XX    four
XX/   five
XXX   six
XXX/  seven


But I certainly wouldn't call it "binary", for fear of confusion with 
radix-2 binary. Possibly binary-tally, for lack of a better term.



-- 
Steven


From patrol at invisibleroads.com  Wed Aug 26 11:01:37 2009
From: patrol at invisibleroads.com (InvisibleRoads Patrol)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 10:01:37 -0500
Subject: Zlib: correct checksum but error decompressing
In-Reply-To: <99c381ef-a146-4545-9344-7b15d60441de@y20g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>
References: <99c381ef-a146-4545-9344-7b15d60441de@y20g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1e55aa13bc60afb4835118cd3f027008@mail.webfaction.com>

On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 07:19:42 -0700 (PDT), Andre 
wrote:
> I have been trying to solve this issue for a while now. I receive data
> from a TCP connection which is compressed. I know the correct checksum
> for the data and both the client and server generate the same
> checksum. However, in Python when it comes to decompressing the data I
> get the exception: "Error -5 while decompressing data"! I would assume
> that if the string in python is equivalent to the correct checksum
> than the decompress function should also work on the same string, but
> that's clearly not the case.
> 
> # convert data to a byte array
> data = array('b', raw_data)
> # print checksum for visual inspection
> print zlib.crc32(data.tostring())
> # try to decompress, but fails!
> str = zlib.decompress(data.tostring())
> 
> Does anyone know what's going on?

Hi Andre,

Hmm.  Can you decompress the string on the server before it was sent? 
Maybe the zipfile or gzip module will work.
Reference:
http://bytes.com/topic/python/answers/42131-zlib-decompress-cannot-gunzip-can
from cStringIO import StringIO
from gzip import GzipFile
body = GzipFile('', 'r', 0, StringIO(raw_data)).read()

You might want to try experimenting with the wbits parameter of
zlib.decompress()
Reference:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2008-December/691694.html
zlib.decompress(data, -15)

The zlib module seems to work fine with both strings and byte arrays.
import array, zlib
dataAsString = zlib.compress('example string')
dataAsArray = array.array('b', dataAsString)
zlib.decompress(dataAsString) == zlib.decompress(dataAsArray)
zlib.decompress(dataAsString) == zlib.decompress(dataAsArray.tostring())

-- 
http://invisibleroads.com

We train ordinary people into Python software developers and connect them
with jobs and projects for local businesses.


From davea at ieee.org  Wed Aug 26 11:13:14 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 11:13:14 -0400
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
Message-ID: <4A95510A.2060704@ieee.org>

kj wrote:
> In <7figv3F2m3p0dU1 at mid.uni-berlin.de> "Diez B. Roggisch"  writes:
>
>   
>> Classes are not scopes.
>>     
>
> This looks to me like a major wart, on two counts.
>
> First, one of the goals of OO is encapsulation, not only at the
> level of instances, but also at the level of classes.  Your comment
> suggests that Python does not fully support class-level encapsulation.
>
> Second, my example shows that Python puts some peculiar restrictions
> on recursion.  Recursion!  One of the central concepts in the theory
> of functions!  This is shown most clearly by the following elaboration
> of my original example:
>
> class Demo(object):
>     def fact_rec(n):
>         if n < 2:
>             return 1
>         else:
>             return n * fact_rec(n - 1)
>
>   
Why not fix the call?  The correct way to call a method is with either 
the class name or an instance object, depending on whether it's a 
instance method or not.  By default, a method is unbound, and its first 
argument is by convention called self.  If you want to recurse, then add 
self in the appropriate places.

As you have it, neither of the methods can be called outside the class:

class Demo(object):
    def fact_rec(n):
        if n < 2:
            return 1
        else:
            return n * fact_rec(n - 1)
     ....

obj = Demo()
print obj.fact_rec(5)

gives error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "M:\Programming\Python\sources\dummy\stuff2.py", line 20, in 
    print obj.fact_rec(5)
TypeError: fact_rec() takes exactly 1 argument (2 given)

To fix it, you need to either change the signature (add in 'self' 
argument before the n argument) or do some form of decorator to the 
function.  If I assume you never intended this method to use 'self'  
(ie. it's a static method), then declare it so.  And call it accordingly.


class Demo(object):
    @staticmethod
    def fact(n):
        if n < 2:
            return 1
        else:
            return n * Demo.fact(n - 1)


print Demo.fact(6)

On the other hand, if I assume you're just giving a simple example of 
what's really intended to be a normal method (called with an instance, 
that it uses), then you'd change it this way.

class Demo2(object):
    def fact(self, n):
        if n<2:
            return 1
        else:
            return n * self.fact(n-1)

obj = Demo2()
print obj.fact(5)

Now the only real restriction, as opposed to all these red-herrings, is 
that the class may not be used before it's complete.  That only comes to 
play when class attributes (non-instance "variables") are defined in 
terms of class methods.  So if you have such attributes to define, move 
them outside of the class, perhaps immediately after it.


class Demo(object):
    @staticmethod
    def fact(n):
        if n < 2:
            return 1
        else:
            return n * Demo.fact(n - 1)
Demo._classvar = Demo.fact(5)

>     def fact_iter(n):
>         ret = 1
>         for i in range(1, n + 1):
>             ret *= i
>         return ret
>
>     classvar1 = fact_iter(5)
>     classvar2 = fact_rec(5)
>
> This code won't compile as shown, 
Sure it will compile.  It just won't run.  You get the error after 
compiling the function when *calling* it from the classvar* line.  But 
at that time the class is not defined, and not everything is ready for use.

You can probably work around this by replacing the staticmethod 
decorator with an equivalent function call:.

class Demo9(object):
    def fact(n):
        if n < 2:
            return 1
        else:
            return n * Demo.fact(n - 1)

    _classvar = fact(5)
    fact = staticmethod(fact)

print Demo9._classvar
xx = Demo9()
print xx.fact(6)
print Demo9.fact(8)
> but it does compile if the last
> line (the call to the recursive fact_rec) is commented out.  There
> is no justification for discriminating against recursive functions
> in this context.  Recursive functions should be OK wherever functions
> are OK.  I can't think of any other language that allows recursion
> but not anywhere.
>
> Is there any good reason (from the point of view of Python's overall
> design) for not fixing this?
>
> kynn
>
>
>   


From no.email at please.post  Wed Aug 26 11:14:27 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:14:27 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 	
	
	<8219d86d-cf0b-457f-b823-550dcf7cbf71@p36g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

In  Dave Angel  writes:

>Thanks for diluting my point.  The OP is chasing the wrong problem.  Who 
>cares whether a class initializer can call a method, if the method 
>doesn't meet its original requirements, to be callable outside the class?

>And the arguments about how recursion is restricted are ridiculous.  
>Nothing wrong with a method calling itself, once it's got a proper 
>signature.  You just have to make the call agree with the signature.  
>The problem is only that the method may not be actually called until the 
>class definition is complete.

As I described at length in another reply, the function in question
is not intended to be "callable outside the class".  And yes,
recursive functions in Python *are* restricted in ways that
non-recursive functions aren't.  The examples I've posted prove
this point unambiguously.

At this point the only defense for this restriction is to claim
that it is somehow negligible.  But I disagree.  It's easy to come
up with equally negligible, and equally indefensible, restrictions
to the language would be found quite unacceptable by most users.
E.g. suppose that Python's specification prohibited the use of
upper case X in an identifier.  That's certainly a negligible
restriction: it is not harder at all to write great software without
the services of the letter X than with them.  Still, I think most
users would find this restriction infuriatingly idiotic.  Which
pretty much captures what I feel about Python's prohibition of
recursive functions within class statements.

kynn


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 11:15:53 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 08:15:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Context manager to temporarily change the variable of a register 
	[aka write swap(a,b)]
References: <7c171ce3-56a7-482f-addd-c6c86441cba7@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<7c2c560f-d54c-492c-a847-e8ab079faea0@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <42b95155-db9d-4865-9039-c11ba556f3b4@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 25, 1:07?pm, Evan Driscoll  wrote:
> On Aug 25, 2:33?pm, Evan Driscoll  wrote:
>
> > I want to make a context manager that will temporarily change the
> > value of a variable within the scope of a 'with' that uses it. This is
> > inspired by a C++ RAII object I've used in a few projects. Ideally,
> > what I want is something like the following:
>
> Okay, so I think I actually got this with some consultation with a
> friend. Critiques?
>
> ? ? from contextlib import contextmanager
> ? ? import inspect
>
> ? ? def get_parents_var(offset, var):
> ? ? ? ? f = inspect.stack()[offset][0]
> ? ? ? ? if var in f.f_locals:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? return f.f_locals[var]
> ? ? ? ? else:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? return f.f_globals[var]
>
> ? ? def set_parents_var(offset, var, val):
> ? ? ? ? f = inspect.stack()[offset][0]
> ? ? ? ? if var in f.f_locals:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? f.f_locals[var] = val
> ? ? ? ? elif var in f_globals:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? f.f_globals[var] = val
> ? ? ? ? else:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? assert False
>
> ? ? @contextmanager
> ? ? def changed_value_tb(var_name, temp_value):
> ? ? ? ? # 1 is here, 2 will be the implicit next() function, 3 is the
> real caller
> ? ? ? ? offset = 3
> ? ? ? ? old_value = get_parents_var(offset, var_name)
> ? ? ? ? set_parents_var(offset, var_name, temp_value)
> ? ? ? ? try:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? yield None
> ? ? ? ? finally:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? set_parents_var(offset, var_name, old_value)
>
> ? ? x = 5
> ? ? print x ? # prints 5
> ? ? with changed_value_tb("x", 10):
> ? ? ? ? print x ?# prints 10
> ? ? print x ?# prints 5

Well, it wouldn't be a "can I rebind a variable using a with-
statement" thread if someone didn't post a solution that they thought
worked, but didn't test it on local variables.


Carl Banks


From la.foma at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 11:18:23 2009
From: la.foma at gmail.com (Maggie)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 08:18:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Raw data extraction question
Message-ID: <250bf47b-6307-435a-b991-caee359c4ccf@n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

i have event timing stretch of code i need to alter. here is code
below:
--------------
# we start each run with one full silent trial
# creating a "stub" with the duration of a full block
# less the discarded acquisitions
stub = block_dur - (distax * tr)

feed = sys.stdin.readlines()
sess = -1
for line in feed:
    if re.search(line != rest):
	   time = (line + line (-1)) + (distax * tr)
	  		print time

	 elif (line(-1) = rest):
	    # block onsets are determined by
	    # block number, block duration,
	    # and the stub; 3dDeconvolve
            # takes care of making these
	    # "global"
        	time = (line) + (distax * tr)
	    	print time
-----
my concern is that it is extracting line number and not data contained
on a given line. I need it to extract data from each line (excluding
lines with spaces and/or lines that contain the word "pause" or
"silence"). Basically i need ONLY raw data extracted from line 1 -
onward.

Please let me know if you have any suggestions.

Thanks!


From no.email at please.post  Wed Aug 26 11:27:06 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:27:06 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	<16b72319-8023-471c-ba40-8025aa6d462e@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
	<1bf83a7e-f9eb-46ff-84fe-cf42d9608e71@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

In <1bf83a7e-f9eb-46ff-84fe-cf42d9608e71 at j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> Carl Banks  writes:

>On Aug 26, 7:09=A0am, kj  wrote:
>> In <16b72319-8023-471c-ba40-8025aa6d4... at a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> Ca=
>rl Banks  writes:
>>
>> >> First, one of the goals of OO is encapsulation, not only at the
>> >> level of instances, but also at the level of classes. =3DA0Your commen=
>t
>> >> suggests that Python does not fully support class-level encapsulation.
>> >I can't answer this, I don't even know what you are talking about.
>>
>> Yes, you do. =A0As I said in another post, Python offers some degree
>> of class-level encapsulation (e.g. class variables). =A0But it is
>> limited by the fact that these class-encapsulated elements can't
>> always be accessed from within the class itself, which is kind of
>> silly.

>Nope, you're wrong.  Class variables are accessible wherever a class
>exists.  The apparent silliness of this is because you are confusing
>classes with class statements.

Repeating an earlier example (though I've switched the order of
the two internal functions):

class Demo(object):
    def fact_iter(n):
        ret = 1
        for i in range(1, n + 1):
            ret *= i
        return ret

    def fact_rec(n):
        if n < 2:
            return 1
        else:
            return n * fact_rec(n - 1)

    classvar1 = fact_iter(5)
    classvar2 = fact_rec(5)


In the initialization of classvar1, fact_iter is invoked without
any problem even though the class is not yet created: no need to
qualify it with the name of the class.  This is completely inconsistent
with the requirement that fact_rec be so qualified when invoked
within fact_rec.

kynn


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 11:27:24 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 08:27:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> 
	
	
Message-ID: <90b1ff07-19cf-4eeb-abc5-80445da9f790@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 26, 8:13?am, Dave Angel  wrote:
> You can probably work around this by replacing the staticmethod
> decorator with an equivalent function call:.
>
> class Demo9(object):
> ? ? def fact(n):
> ? ? ? ? if n < 2:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? return 1
> ? ? ? ? else:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? return n * Demo.fact(n - 1)
>
> ? ? _classvar = fact(5)
> ? ? fact = staticmethod(fact)
>
> print Demo9._classvar
> xx = Demo9()
> print xx.fact(6)
> print Demo9.fact(8)

This won't work normally.  It only worked for you because you made a
typo.


Carl Banks


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Wed Aug 26 11:32:38 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 26 Aug 2009 15:32:38 GMT
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> 
Message-ID: <02a54597$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 10:57:32 +0000, kj wrote:

> In <7figv3F2m3p0dU1 at mid.uni-berlin.de> "Diez B. Roggisch"
>  writes:
> 
>>Classes are not scopes.
> 
> This looks to me like a major wart, on two counts.
> 
> First, one of the goals of OO is encapsulation, not only at the level of
> instances, but also at the level of classes.  Your comment suggests that
> Python does not fully support class-level encapsulation.

I don't even know what that is supposed to mean. If anything, your 
problem could be because Python has TOO MUCH "class-level encapsulation" 
compared to what you are expecting: functions inside a class don't see 
the class attributes you expect them too.

Actually, I think your problem is that you are interpreting what you're 
seeing in terms of C++ or Java, and assuming that whatever they do is the 
One True Definition of OO. That's hardly valid -- if any language 
deserves the label of the One True OO Design, it might be Smalltalk, on 
the basis that it was the first OO language. But even that is silly -- 
just because something was the first, that doesn't make it the best 
example of something.


> Second, my example shows that Python puts some peculiar restrictions on
> recursion.  

Incorrect. Recursive calls are just like any other function call in 
Python: when you call *any* function from the body of a function, it must 
be in scope at runtime.

def fact(n):
    print g()  # g must be in scope when fact is called
    if n < 2: return 1
    return n*fact(n-1)  # fact must be in scope when fact is called


Python doesn't treat recursive functions specially in any way. It is 
*classes*, not functions, that are special. This is explained in the docs:

http://docs.python.org/reference/executionmodel.html

It is also discussed in the PEP introducing nested scopes to Python:

http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0227/

It's even eluded to in the tutorial:

http://docs.python.org/tutorial/classes.html




> Recursion!  One of the central concepts in the theory of
> functions!  This is shown most clearly by the following elaboration of
> my original example:
> 
> class Demo(object):
>     def fact_rec(n):
>         if n < 2:
>             return 1
>         else:
>             return n * fact_rec(n - 1)

Why are you defining a method without a self parameter?

In any case, the problem has nothing to do with recursion:


>>> class Broken:
...     def f():
...             return g()
...     def g():
...             return "gee"
...     x = f()
...
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
  File "", line 6, in Broken
  File "", line 3, in f
NameError: global name 'g' is not defined




>     def fact_iter(n):
>         ret = 1
>         for i in range(1, n + 1):
>             ret *= i
>         return ret
> 
>     classvar1 = fact_iter(5)
>     classvar2 = fact_rec(5)
> 
> This code won't compile as shown, 

That's nonsense. It compiles, and then it suffers a runtime error when 
you *execute* it.  (NameError occurs at runtime, not at compile time.) 
You can prove this for yourself by putting that above class definition 
inside a string, s:

>>> x = compile(s, '', 'exec')
>>> exec(x)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
  File "", line 1, in 
  File "", line 15, in Demo
  File "", line 6, in fact_rec
NameError: global name 'fact_rec' is not defined


If you expect us to take your criticisms seriously, at least get your 
basic facts right.


[...]
> Is there any good reason (from the point of view of Python's overall
> design) for not fixing this?

It doesn't need to be "fixed" because it's not broken. The question is, 
should it be *changed* to match C++ programmers' expectations?



-- 
Steven


From no.email at please.post  Wed Aug 26 11:36:35 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:36:35 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	<16b72319-8023-471c-ba40-8025aa6d462e@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
	<1bf83a7e-f9eb-46ff-84fe-cf42d9608e71@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

In <1bf83a7e-f9eb-46ff-84fe-cf42d9608e71 at j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> Carl Banks  writes:

>Yeah, it's a little surprising that you can't access class scope from
>a function, but that has nothing to do with encapsulation.

It does: it thwarts encapsulation.  The helper function in my
example is one that clearly rightfully belongs nowhere else than
the class itself, i.e. encapsulated within the class.  It is only
this silly prohibition against recursive functions in a class
statement that forces one to put it outside the class statement.

kynn


From davea at ieee.org  Wed Aug 26 11:37:52 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 11:37:52 -0400
Subject: Help with arrays
In-Reply-To: <391bbc0f-08ea-4840-a2da-cb36b5632669@m38g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: 		
	
	<391bbc0f-08ea-4840-a2da-cb36b5632669@m38g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A9556D0.1060508@ieee.org>

Mart. wrote:
> On Aug 26, 3:02 am, Dave Angel  wrote:
>   
>> Stephen Fairchild wrote:
>>     
>>> Philip Semanchuk wrote:
>>>       
>>>> On Aug 25, 2009, at 6:14 PM, Gleb Belov wrote:
>>>>         
>>>>> Hello! I'm working on an exercise wherein I have to write a Guess The
>>>>> Number game, but it's the computer who's guessing MY number. I can get
>>>>> it to work, but there's one obvious problem: the computer generates
>>>>> random numbers until one of them corresponds to my number, but it will
>>>>> often generate one number (eg. 4) numerous times, meaning it doesn't
>>>>> know that this number is invalid. What I mean is, it will sometimes
>>>>> use 37 tries to guess a number out of 1 - 9, which makes no sense,
>>>>> since it should only take 9 tries, at most. I was trying to find a way
>>>>> to make a dynamic list of all the numbers the computer generates in
>>>>> the loop and then make it re-generate the number if the previous
>>>>> number is present in the list, so it doesn't keep on generating 4 (as
>>>>> an example). I don't know if that makes sense... Basically, we humans
>>>>> know that once something is incorrect, there's no point in trying to
>>>>> use it as the answer next time, because we already know it's
>>>>> incorrect. How do I go about coding this in Python? I'm still quite
>>>>> new to the language so any help will be appreciated...
>>>>>           
>>>> One cheap way to do it (not necessarily efficient) is to make a list
>>>> of your possible guesses (e.g. range(1,10)), use random.shuffle() to
>>>> put them in random order and then run through the guesses one at a time.
>>>>         
>>> import random
>>> import time
>>>       
>>> l = range(1, 10)
>>>       
>>> while l:
>>>     print l.pop(random.randint(0, len(l) - 1))
>>>     time.sleep(2)
>>>       
>> While both of these will work well, I'd point out that a direct
>> translation of your question is to use a set.  Define an empty set, and
>> each time you try a number unsuccessfully, add it to the set.  Then just use
>>        while x in myset:
>>                x = newguess()
>>
>> to find the next guess.  This approach isn't as efficient, but it's a
>> useful paradigm to understand.
>>
>> A separate question is whether the human is supposed to tell the
>> computer whether the guess is high or low.  If so, you can eliminate
>> many numbers on each guess.   For example, suppose the solution is 8.  A
>> guess of 5 would say "too low."  Then you'd cross off now only 5 but 1-4
>> as well.
>>
>> With this change the best solution changes from a random shuffle to a
>> binary search.
>>
>> DaveA
>>     
>
> That's a good point if you can define whether the computer has guessed
> too low/high, then you could use the previous guess to set a bounds
> and rescale the next random guess.
>
> min + (random_number * max)
>
> although I think random.randomint does this for you!
>
>   
Actually, if you change the specs this way, you don't need random at 
all.  Just guess halfway through the remaining range.  To guess a number 
between 1 and 100 this way takes 7 guesses, worst case.  (plus/minus 1, 
I haven't checked)   Same problem as searching a sorted list.

This code (from:  
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/212358/binary-search-in-python)  
appears to search a sorted list

|def binary_search(a, x, lo=0, hi=None):
    if hi is None:
        hi = len(a)
    while lo < hi:
        mid = (lo+hi)//2
        midval = a[mid]
        if midval < x:
            lo = mid+1
        elif midval > x: 
            hi = mid
        else:
            return mid
    return -1

|


DaveA


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Wed Aug 26 11:40:35 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 26 Aug 2009 15:40:35 GMT
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> 
	
	
Message-ID: <02a54775$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 13:57:23 +0000, kj wrote:

> In  "Martin P. Hellwig"
>  writes:
> 
>>kj wrote:
>>
>>> First, one of the goals of OO is encapsulation, not only at the level
>>> of instances, but also at the level of classes.
>>Who says?
> 
> Python itself: it already offers a limited form of class encapsulation
> (e.g. class variables).

An int variable is an int. A string variable is a string. A bool variable 
is a bool. A class variable is a class.

Perhaps you mean a class attribute?


> It would be nice if it went all the way and
> gave classes their own bona fide scope.

Classes have their own bona fide scope. It just doesn't work the way you 
expect it to.


> (But I hasten to add: I *still*
> don't understand the Python scope model, and not for lack of trying. 
> I've only succeeded in finding fragments of this model explained here
> and there, like pottery shards: a bit lost in a tutorial, or some
> comment in a newsgroup thread, etc.  Maybe the full, authoritative
> documentation of Python's scope model got lost somewhere, and will be
> found by archaeologists in the 25th century...)

It's all in the Fine Manual:

http://docs.python.org/reference/executionmodel.html


 
>>Anyway, you could be right (I am not capable to judge it) and Python
>>should change on this issue but from what I gathered, Pythons OO is
>>inspired by the following:
>>- Don't repeat yourself
>>- Containing code into logical units makes it easier to understand and
>>maintain.
> 
> ...except, apparently, when that code is a recursive function, in which
> case one's out of luck.

Incorrect. As I showed in my previous post, your problem has nothing to 
do with recursion.


>>> Second, my example shows that Python puts some peculiar restrictions
>>> on recursion.  Recursion!  One of the central concepts in the theory
>>> of functions!
>>
>>It is also one of the best ways to shoot yourself in the foot...
> 
> If recursion is so evil, and Python so intent in saving us from shooting
> ourselves in the foot, why does it allow recursion at all?

Recursion isn't evil, and Python isn't intent on preventing foot-shooting.



-- 
Steven


From no.email at please.post  Wed Aug 26 11:45:54 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:45:54 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	<02a54597$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

In <02a54597$0$20629$c3e8da3 at news.astraweb.com> Steven D'Aprano  writes:

>On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 10:57:32 +0000, kj wrote:

>> Recursion!  One of the central concepts in the theory of
>> functions!  This is shown most clearly by the following elaboration of
>> my original example:
>> 
>> class Demo(object):
>>     def fact_rec(n):
>>         if n < 2:
>>             return 1
>>         else:
>>             return n * fact_rec(n - 1)

>Why are you defining a method without a self parameter?

Because, as I've explained elsewhere, it is not a method: it's a
"helper" function, meant to be called only once, within the class
statement itself.

Well, this is not strictly true, because the function is recursive,
so it will also call itself a few times.  But still, all these
calls happen (loosely speaking) "within the class statement".

In fact the only reason to use a function for such initialization
work is when one needs recursion; otherwise there's no point in
defining a function that will only be invoked exactly once.

kynn


From grahn+nntp at snipabacken.se  Wed Aug 26 11:48:53 2009
From: grahn+nntp at snipabacken.se (Jorgen Grahn)
Date: 26 Aug 2009 15:48:53 GMT
Subject: ubuntu dist-packages
References: 
	<7fki3lF2kirnkU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 12:46:13 +0200, Diez B. Roggisch
 wrote:
> Robin Becker wrote:
>
>> I was surprised a couple of days ago when trying to assist a colleage with
>> his python setup on a ubuntu 9.04 system.
>> 
>> We built our c-extensions and manually copied them into place, but
>> site-packages wasn't there. It seems that ubuntu now wants stuff to go
>> into lib/python2.6/dist-packages.
...

> I don't know much about the atrocities distributions commit to
> python-installations (ripping out distutils "because it's a developer-only
> thing",

Well, if you are thinking about Debian Linux, it's not as much
"ripping out" as "splitting into a separate package with a non-obvious
name". Annoying at times, but hardly an atrocity.

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn    O  o   .


From wiggly at wiggly.org  Wed Aug 26 11:49:10 2009
From: wiggly at wiggly.org (Nigel Rantor)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 16:49:10 +0100
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A955976.6000303@wiggly.org>

kj wrote:
>
> Needless to say, I'm pretty beat by this point.  Any help would be
> appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,

Based on your statement above, and the fact that multiple people have
now explained *exactly* why your attempt at recursion hasn't worked, it
might be a good idea to step back, accept the advice and walk away
instead of trying to convince people that the language forbids recursion
and doesn't provide decent OO ecapsulation.

Otherwise I'd wager you'll soon be appearing in multiple kill-files.

  n



From davea at ieee.org  Wed Aug 26 11:54:13 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 11:54:13 -0400
Subject: Move dictionary from instance to class level
In-Reply-To: 
References: 		
	
Message-ID: <4A955AA5.6000200@ieee.org>

Frank Millman wrote:
> "MRAB"  wrote in message 
> news:mailman.444.1251290454.2854.python-list at python.org...
>   
>> An alternative is:
>>
>>     
>>>>> class MyClass(object):
>>>>>           
>> ...     def on_message_received(self, msg):
>> ...         try:
>> ...             getattr(self, "method_%d" % msg)()
>> ...         except AttributeError:
>> ...             raise Exception("Unknown message")
>> ...     def method_0(self):
>> ...         print 'in method_0'
>> ...     def method_1(self):
>> ...         print 'in method_1'
>> ...
>>     
>>>>> my_obj = MyClass()
>>>>> my_obj.on_message_received(0)
>>>>>           
>> in method_0
>>     
>>>>> my_obj.on_message_received(1)
>>>>>           
>> in method_1
>>     
>>>>> my_obj.on_message_received(2)
>>>>>           
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "", line 1, in 
>>   File "", line 6, in on_message_received
>> Exception: Unknown message
>>     
>
> I like the idea. Unfortunately my real-world situation is a little more 
> complex than my simple example implied.
>
> This is a more typical example -
>
>     (EVT_GETLOGIN
>     ,EVT_LOGOUT
>     ,EVT_GETMENUOPT
>     ,EVT_GOTFOCUS
>     ,EVT_LOSTFOCUS
>     ,EVT_BUTTONCLICKED
>     ,EVT_CHECKBOX
>     ...
>     ) = xrange(28)
>
>     method_dict = {}
>     method_dict[EVT_GETLOGIN] = onGetLogin
>     method_dict[EVT_LOGOUT] = onLogout
>     method_dict[EVT_GETMENUOPT] = onGetMenuOpt
>     method_dict[EVT_GOTFOCUS] = onGotFocus
>     method_dict[EVT_LOSTFOCUS] = onLostFocus
>     method_dict[EVT_BUTTONCLICKED] = onButtonClicked
>     method_dict[EVT_CHECKBOX] = onCheckBox
>
> You can probably figure out from my method names what I am doing here - the 
> messages are sent by a thin client (wxPython), and processed by a server.I 
> am anticipating some "don't do that" responses, but I like the concept, and 
> so far it is very fast and responsive, so I will pursue it for now.
>
> Thanks for the input.
>
> Frank
>
>
>   
Any time I see multiple lists like that which have to stay in synch, I 
think code-smell.

Why not let the EVT's be passed as strings, and avoid the whole mapping 
to integers and mapping back detail?  And name the methods involved in a 
way that you can directly translate the string to the method name?

Barring that, make a single "structure" which lists the event names and 
method names in matched pairs, and derive whatever lists and 
dictionaries you actually need from that one structure.  And that 
structure should be shared between client and server code, perhaps as a 
text file that they both parse.  Or as a stream that's passed from one 
to the other during startup.  That way, consistency between them can be 
regulated (with version string in the file, for example)

DaveA



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Wed Aug 26 11:55:08 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 26 Aug 2009 15:55:08 GMT
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> 
	<16b72319-8023-471c-ba40-8025aa6d462e@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <02a54ade$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 14:09:57 +0000, kj wrote:

>>1. One of the key aspects of Python's design is that attributes must be
>>accessed explicitly with dot notation.  Accessing class scopes from
>>nested functions would (seemingly) allow access to class attributes
>>without the dotted notation.  Therefore it is not allowed.
> 
> It would be trivial to define a keyword (e.g. this, or if you prefer,
> __this__), valid only within a class statement, and that the interpreter
> would recognize as "the current class", even before this class is full
> defined.

Python doesn't treat the addition of new keywords, and the corresponding 
breakage of code which used that word as a normal name, as "trivial" -- 
the Python dev team takes their responsibilities to not casually break 
people's code seriously. That pretty much rules out "this", although it 
would allow "__this__".

However, what's your use-case?

class Demo(object):
    def f(n):
        return n+1
    x = f(10)


is a poorly written class, because the user will expect to do this:

instance = Demo()
assert instance.c == 11  # suceeds
instance.f(10) == 11  # fails


Since the function f doesn't refer to a Demo instance, or the Demo class, 
why do you put it inside the Demo class? It doesn't belong there, it 
belongs in the global (module) scope. Move it out, and your problem goes 
away.

The only use-case I can think of for __this__ is the following:

class Example(object):
    @staticmethod
    def rec(n):
        if n < 2: return "x"
        return "x" + __this__.rec(n/2)

Example.rec(15)


but again, why include rec() in the class if it doesn't actually have 
anything to do with the class or the instance? Or why make it a 
staticmethod? Just make it a class method:

class Example(object):
    @classmethod
    def rec(cls, n):
        if n < 2: return "x"
        return "x" + cls.rec(n/2)



-- 
Steven


From marcandre at abppers.com  Wed Aug 26 12:10:34 2009
From: marcandre at abppers.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Marc-Andr=E9_Ouellette?=)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 12:10:34 -0400
Subject: WEB PROGRAMMER ANALYST (with Python knowledge) for Laval,
	Quebec needed.
Message-ID: <7116C98A7E6E4F8785817A4A92A545D7@abppers.local>

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From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 12:13:40 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 09:13:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> 
	
	<16b72319-8023-471c-ba40-8025aa6d462e@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
	<1bf83a7e-f9eb-46ff-84fe-cf42d9608e71@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 26, 8:36?am, kj  wrote:
> In <1bf83a7e-f9eb-46ff-84fe-cf42d9608... at j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> Carl Banks  writes:
>
> >Yeah, it's a little surprising that you can't access class scope from
> >a function, but that has nothing to do with encapsulation.
>
> It does: it thwarts encapsulation. ?The helper function in my
> example is one that clearly rightfully belongs nowhere else than
> the class itself, i.e. encapsulated within the class. It is only
> this silly prohibition against recursive functions in a class
> statement that forces one to put it outside the class statement.

Oh well, I guess that sucks for you.


Carl Banks


From robin at reportlab.com  Wed Aug 26 12:20:35 2009
From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 17:20:35 +0100
Subject: ubuntu dist-packages
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<7fki3lF2kirnkU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
Message-ID: <4A9560D3.4000009@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>

Jorgen Grahn wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 12:46:13 +0200, Diez B. Roggisch
........
> Well, if you are thinking about Debian Linux, it's not as much
> "ripping out" as "splitting into a separate package with a non-obvious
> name". Annoying at times, but hardly an atrocity.
so where is the official place for user installed stuff on ubuntu/debian ie will 
there be dist-packages and site-packages.
-- 
Robin Becker


From robin at reportlab.com  Wed Aug 26 12:20:35 2009
From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 17:20:35 +0100
Subject: ubuntu dist-packages
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<7fki3lF2kirnkU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
Message-ID: <4A9560D3.4000009@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>

Jorgen Grahn wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 12:46:13 +0200, Diez B. Roggisch
........
> Well, if you are thinking about Debian Linux, it's not as much
> "ripping out" as "splitting into a separate package with a non-obvious
> name". Annoying at times, but hardly an atrocity.
so where is the official place for user installed stuff on ubuntu/debian ie will 
there be dist-packages and site-packages.
-- 
Robin Becker



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Aug 26 12:21:45 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 12:21:45 -0400
Subject: Python Processor
In-Reply-To: <7670c8130908260328l6982ef4etad802a755b85a44f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7670c8130908260328l6982ef4etad802a755b85a44f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

manish wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am also wondering about how to implement a soft core reconfigurable 
> processor in a FPGA
> which would directly execute the compiled python bytecode.
> 
> I am trying to understand the bytecode format but apart from 
> http://docs.python.org/library/dis.html
> there is hardly any documentation on the python bytecodes.

Contrary to the ancient and, I believe, obsolete text in the 
documentation, there is no 'python bytecode'. Dis is based on CPython 
bytecode. Jython uses Java bytecode. IronPython uses, I believe, 
Microsoft clr bytecode. Object code compilers do not use bytecode.

> Before going through the one of the existing VM implementations, i want 
> to know if there is there any informaition
> available which elaborates on the structure of the bytecodes. Like 
> details regarding co_names, co_cellvars,
> co_freevars, the concept of frames, global, local, objects, functions 
> etc with respect to the bytecode.

These are mostly version-specific Cpython implementation details.

tjr



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Wed Aug 26 12:42:24 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 26 Aug 2009 16:42:24 GMT
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> 
	<16b72319-8023-471c-ba40-8025aa6d462e@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
	<1bf83a7e-f9eb-46ff-84fe-cf42d9608e71@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <02a555f2$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:36:35 +0000, kj wrote:

> In <1bf83a7e-f9eb-46ff-84fe-cf42d9608e71 at j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
> Carl Banks  writes:
> 
>>Yeah, it's a little surprising that you can't access class scope from a
>>function, but that has nothing to do with encapsulation.
> 
> It does: it thwarts encapsulation.  The helper function in my example is
> one that clearly rightfully belongs nowhere else than the class itself,
> i.e. encapsulated within the class.

There's nothing "clearly" about it. 

This helper function doesn't reference the class, or any instance of the 
class. Why should it be encapsulated in the class? It's not *part* of the 
class, it shouldn't be *inside* the class.

Look at it this way: classes are made from building blocks. Just because 
a building block ends up in a class, doesn't mean the function that makes 
the building block has to be inside the class too.

It's an accident of Python's execution model that a single function call 
*sometimes* works as you expect inside the class statement:

class Demo:
    def f():
        return 2
    def g():
        return f()+1
    x = f()  # works
    y = g()  # fails


As you can see, the problem is not because of recursion, but because the 
class scope is not inserted into the function scope. As I said earlier, 
your problem isn't too little class encapsulation, but too much: the 
class scope doesn't leak into the function scope.

Python could, of course, behave the way you want, but it would lead to 
some odd interactions:

class Weird(object):
    x = 1
    def __init__(self):
        self.y = 2
    def test(self):
        print self.x  # refers to attribute x with value 1
        print x       # refers to attribute x with value 1
        print self.y  # refers to attribute y with value 2
        print y       # refers to global y

In existing Python, both x and y will refer to globals, because it's 
considered more important for all attribute access to be consistently 
explicit than to insert the class scope into the function scope. This 
isn't a design flaw, or a bug, it's a feature. Yes, it makes it hard for 
you to solve your problem the way you want to solve it, but it doesn't 
stop you from solving your problem. The module is encapsulation enough.



-- 
Steven


From cjw at ncf.ca  Wed Aug 26 12:49:18 2009
From: cjw at ncf.ca (Colin J. Williams)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 12:49:18 -0400
Subject: quantiles of a student distribution
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Pierre wrote:
> Hello...
> 
> Do you know how I can calculate the quantiles of a student
> distribution in pyhton ?
> 
> Thanks
You might look at: 
http://bonsai.ims.u-tokyo.ac.jp/~mdehoon/software/python/special.html

Colin W.


From szport at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 12:49:48 2009
From: szport at gmail.com (zaur)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 09:49:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Object's nesting scope
References: 
	<7fkqodF2llnghU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <1ea2a98f-4035-4ec6-b5a9-06b21dd6f584@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On 26 ???, 17:13, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
> Whom am we to judge? Sure if you propose this, you have some usecases in
> mind - how about you present these

Ok. Here is a use case: object initialization.

For example,

person = Person():
  name = "john"
  age = 30
  address = Address():
     street = "Green Street"
     no = 12

vs.

person = Person()
person.name = "john"
person.age = 30
address = person.address = Address()
address.street = "Green Street"
address.no = 12

In this example any assignment is an equivalence of setting
attribute's address of the parent object.


From phily05 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 12:54:55 2009
From: phily05 at gmail.com (Phil)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 09:54:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python on the Web
References: 
	<4a94ef42$0$27774$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: 

Thanks to everybody. I believe I am understanding things better.

I have looked at the links that have been provided, although I have
seen most of them in the past month or so that I've been looking into
this stuff. I do agree with most of the things Armin stated in that
NIH post. I agree with everybody in this thread so far. If I wanted to
write an application, I would use an existing framework and wait for
it to be ported to 3.x. However, I do not have the need to write a web
application at this time, and creating blogs or other applications I
do not need for fun is getting old.

My reasoning for working on my own instead of following the 'NIH'
concept or contributing to an existing framework is because I have
experimented with many existing frameworks and I have figured out what
I like/dislike, and have envisioned my own design that I feel would
work potentially better for others, or at least newcomers. Things like
this are fun for me, and I do not mind the challenge. I don't want to
pollute the web with (sigh) 'another framework', but it would be fun
for me to write it and get some feedback. I would love for people like
you, Armin, and others who take a look at the various frameworks that
pop up seemingly every day, to look at my (hypothetical) framework and
just rip it apart with (constructive) criticism. That is just the way
I do things, whether the community agrees with it or not. The reason I
was asking about Python 3 on the web was just because I like some of
the changes that have been made, and would like to use it for my
framework. That is when I realized that I was absolutely clueless
about the details of how Python, or any language, works on the web.

Graham, regarding number 3 in your list of ways to host WSGI: I
haven't really looked into mod_wsgi at all, but basically it sounds
like the web server would be running this embedded module. That module
would then serve the function of both FCGI and the 'WSGI Server' in my
diagram? That actually sounds really neat. Unfortunately I missed this
because I've been hooked on lighttpd, as the minimalist I am.

Here are the things I am still confused with:

1) Why do I not want to consider running Python on the web with FCGI,
without WSGI? You said 'no' straight up, no questions asked. I would
imagine that there is a good reason of course, as you've been in this
field for a long time. I just feel more comfortable understanding why.
>From my understanding, the only real purpose of WSGI is to remain
independent of FCGI/SCGI/CGI/AJP (whatever that is) and the web server
it is run on. However, 99.9% of the discussion I see with Python on
the web is around FCGI. So for example, lets say everybody used FCGI.
All that would be left to deal with is web server independence. Now
this is what I don't get, I thought that FCGI itself was supposed to
be the protocol that deals with web server independence. Maybe I just
need to re-read entire WSGI specification to understand, along with
all the details of FCGI. There are just so many details regarding web
servers, FCGI, and WSGI that it is hard to absorb it all and see how
it works together. That is why I tried to create the diagram, but it
doesn't provide enough details. And those are the details I am
missing. I've been trying to find a simple diagram or explaination of
the process a request takes to make a response, from HTTP all the way
up to the application, to the the user.

2) In the development stack, the 'WSGI Server' seems to take on the
role of the web server (dealing with HTTP specification), skips FCGI,
and deals with the WSGI specification. Then, the 'WSGI Server' in the
production stack (eg. Flup, CherryPy, etc) only deals with FCGI and
WSGI specification, because the HTTP is already taken care of by the
web server?


From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 13:11:15 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 10:11:15 -0700
Subject: Object's nesting scope
In-Reply-To: <1ea2a98f-4035-4ec6-b5a9-06b21dd6f584@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<7fkqodF2llnghU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<1ea2a98f-4035-4ec6-b5a9-06b21dd6f584@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

> person = Person():
>   name = "john"
>   age = 30
>   address = Address():
>      street = "Green Street"
>      no = 12
>

Can you clarify what you mean? Would that define a Person class, and an  
Address class?

If you are expecting those classes to be already defined, please bear in  
mind that if you want, you can do this:

> > > class Person(object):
	def __init__(self, name='Nemo', age=0, address=None):
		self.name = name
		self.age = age
		self.address = address

> > > class Address(object):
	def __init__(self, street=None, no=None):
		self.street = street
		self.no = no
	
> > > otherperson = Person(
		     name = 'Bob',
		     age = 26,
		     address = Address(
			     street = 'Blue Street',
			     no = 1
			     )
		     )







On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 09:49:48 -0700, zaur  wrote:

> On 26 ???, 17:13, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
>> Whom am we to judge? Sure if you propose this, you have some usecases in
>> mind - how about you present these
>
> Ok. Here is a use case: object initialization.
>
> For example,
>
> person = Person():
>   name = "john"
>   age = 30
>   address = Address():
>      street = "Green Street"
>      no = 12
>
> vs.
>
> person = Person()
> person.name = "john"
> person.age = 30
> address = person.address = Address()
> address.street = "Green Street"
> address.no = 12
>
> In this example any assignment is an equivalence of setting
> attribute's address of the parent object.



-- 
Rami Chowdhury
"Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --  
Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)


From eckhardt at satorlaser.com  Wed Aug 26 13:17:22 2009
From: eckhardt at satorlaser.com (Ulrich Eckhardt)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 19:17:22 +0200
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<16b72319-8023-471c-ba40-8025aa6d462e@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<1bf83a7e-f9eb-46ff-84fe-cf42d9608e71@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <2a7gm6-9h.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>

kj wrote:
> class Demo(object):
>     def fact_iter(n):
>         ret = 1
>         for i in range(1, n + 1):
>             ret *= i
>         return ret
> 
>     def fact_rec(n):
>         if n < 2:
>             return 1
>         else:
>             return n * fact_rec(n - 1)
> 
>     classvar1 = fact_iter(5)
>     classvar2 = fact_rec(5)
> 
> 
> In the initialization of classvar1, fact_iter is invoked without
> any problem even though the class is not yet created: no need to
> qualify it with the name of the class.  This is completely inconsistent
> with the requirement that fact_rec be so qualified when invoked
> within fact_rec.

Let me take a shot at explaining this, maybe it helps that I'm mostly a C++
guy....


Firstly, if Python sees a name, it looks up that name first in the local
scope and then in the global scope. This is very simple (especially
compared to C++ when adding ADL there...), but it is something most people
can live with. So, even inside a class function (static or member), you
have to qualify a function call like 'ClassName.function_name', because
neither is 'function_name' a local nor is it a global.

Secondly, and that is due to the very dynamic nature of Python's types, the
class doesn't exist until its definition is finished. Therefore, any
attempt (directly or indirectly) to access a class member will usually fail
before that time. The exception is that inside the class definition you can
access the members directly, because they are in the same scope (access to
locals). Note that the scope already seems to exist but that it is not yet
available under any name! Looking at your example, you can not
write 'classvar1 = Demo.fact_iter(42)', because the lookup of 'Demo' will
fail.

Now, what actually causes problems is that 'fact_rec' is not universally
accessible until class 'Demo' is fully defined, but you need this in order
to fully define it. Here comes a drawback of the dynamic nature of Python,
that the declaration phase (compiling) is not separate from the execution.

I fully agree that this case is rather vexing to my (and obviously your)
biased brain. I wouldn't call this a bug before fully understanding why
e.g. you can not access a class before its definition is finished. I think
someone mentioned one or two PEPs, which are the design documents that
explain Python including the rationale, I'd use that as a starting point.


Suggestion: someone mentioned that you should make the function a normal
function. You can mark it as private using an underscore as prefix. If you
want to make it foolproof, you could even delete ("del fact_rec") the
function after use. Other alternatives would be to put it into a separate
baseclass, use a local function as implementation or to add the class
attributes after defining the class. Neither of these provide the 'perfect'
encapsulation of things in a class that you might be used to from e.g.
Java, but they have proven to be very useful nonetheless.


Uli

-- 
Sator Laser GmbH
Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Thorsten F?cking, Amtsgericht Hamburg HR B62 932



From gert.cuykens at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 13:28:23 2009
From: gert.cuykens at gmail.com (gert)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 10:28:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How does the file.seek() work ?
References: <2feaaf6c-d723-4843-a9e5-271d00187180@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	
	<1532ff09-f892-44c8-8206-10b3c2d16050@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <40093737-2ff1-4527-a2ea-a016ee526463@k30g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 26, 12:46?am, Graham Dumpleton 
wrote:
> On Aug 25, 5:37?am, Tim Chase  wrote:
>
> > > I want the file pointer set to 100 and overwrite everything from there
> > [snip]
> > > def application(environ, response):
> > > ? ? query=os.path.join(os.path.dirname(__file__),'teeeeeeeeeemp')
> > > ? ? range=environ.get('HTTP_RANGE','bytes=0-').replace
> > > ('bytes=','').split(',')
> > > ? ? offset=[]
> > > ? ? for r in range: offset.append(r.split('-'))
> > > ? ? with open(query,'w+') as f:
> > > ? ? ? ? ?f.seek(int(offset[0][0]))
> > > ? ? ? ? ?while True:
> > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?chunk=environ['wsgi.input'].read(8192).decode('latin1')
> > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?if not chunk: break
> > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?f.write(chunk)
> > > ? ? f=open(query)
> > > ? ? l=str(os.fstat(f.fileno()).st_size)
> > > ? ? response('200 OK', [('Content-Type', 'text/plain'), ('Content-
> > > Length', str(len(l)))])
> > > ? ? return [l]
>
> > A couple items of note:
>
> > - you don't open the file in binary mode -- seek is more reliable
> > in binary mode :)
>
> If my memory is right, if file is opened in binary mode, also wouldn't
> need to be decoding the WSGI input stream as latin-1 to get a string.
> Instead can just deal with bytes and write bytes to file.
>
> Graham
>
> > - if you want to lop off the rest of the file, use f.truncate()
>
> > An example:
>
> > # create the initial file
> > ?>>> f = file('zzz.zzz', 'wb+')
> > ?>>> f.write('abcdefghijklmnop')
> > ?>>> f.close()
>
> > ?>>> f = file('zzz.zzz', 'ab+')
> > ?>>> f.read() # show the existing content
> > 'abcdefghijklmnop'
> > ?>>> f.seek(5) # seek to the desired offset
> > ?>>> f.truncate() # throw away everything after here
> > ?>>> f.write('zyx') # write the new data at pos=5
> > ?>>> f.close()
>
> > # demonstrate that it worked
> > ?>>> f = file('zzz.zzz', 'rb')
> > ?>>> f.read()
> > 'abcdezyx'
> > ?>>> f.close()
>
> > > also why must I open the file a second time to know how big it is ?
>
> > Likely the output has been buffered. ?You can try using
>
> > ? ?f.flush() # write all the data to the disk first
> > ? ?size = os.fstat(f.fileno()).st_size
>
> > which seems to do the trick for me.
> > -tkc
>

Works thanks

curl -C 10 -T upload2.wsgi http://192.168.2.17/appwsgi/wsgi/upload2.wsgi
--header "Transfer-Encoding: chunked" -v

import os

def application(environ, response):
    #query=environ.get['QUERY_STRING']
    #print (query, file=environ['wsgi.errors'])
    query=os.path.join(os.path.dirname(__file__),'teeeeeeeeeemp')
    range=environ.get('HTTP_CONTENT_RANGE','bytes 0-').replace('bytes
','').split('/')[0].split(',')
    offset=[]
    for r in range: offset.append(r.split('-'))
    with open(query,'rb+') as f:
         f.seek(int(offset[0][0]))
         if environ['REQUEST_METHOD']=='PUT':
             f.truncate()
             while True:
                 chunk=environ['wsgi.input'].read(8192)
                 if not chunk: break
                 f.write(chunk)
         f.flush()
         l=str(os.fstat(f.fileno()).st_size)
    response('200 OK', [('Content-Type', 'text/plain'), ('Content-
Length', str(len(l)))])
    return [l]





From tjreedy at udel.edu  Wed Aug 26 13:52:36 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 13:52:36 -0400
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
Message-ID: 

kj wrote:
> In <7figv3F2m3p0dU1 at mid.uni-berlin.de> "Diez B. Roggisch"  writes:
> 
>> Classes are not scopes.

Classes are objects.  In particular, they are (by default) instances of 
class 'type'. Unless 'scopes' were instances of some other metaclass, 
the statement has to be true. I understand 'scope' as referring to a 
section of code, as opposed to a runtime object.

Class statements introduce a new local namespace used to define the 
class.  Whether one considers that as introducing a new 'scope' depends, 
I suppose, on one's exact definition of scope.

> This looks to me like a major wart, on two counts.

It is a 'wart' that a Python object is not a 'scope', whatever that is 
to you? I have trouble comprehending that claim.

> First, one of the goals of OO is encapsulation, not only at the
> level of instances, but also at the level of classes.  Your comment
> suggests that Python does not fully support class-level encapsulation.

I really do not see how your claim follows from the comment. The irony 
of your 'two counts' is that the example of 'count 2' fails precisely 
because of the encapsulation that you claim does not exist as 'count 1'.

> Second, my example shows that Python puts some peculiar restrictions
> on recursion.

I claim it does not. Name-based recursion inherently requires that a 
function be able to access itself by name at the time it is called. This 
can be a bit tricky, especially in a language with dynamic rather than 
static name binding and resolution, as it requires that code within the 
function be able to access a scope outside itself in which the function 
name is defined. In other words, it requires that function code *not* be 
completely encapsulated. It also require that the appropriate name be 
used when there is one. Neither of these is a 'peculiar restriction' 
imposed by Python.

> class Demo(object):
>     def fact_rec(n):
>         if n < 2:
>             return 1
>         else:
>             return n * fact_rec(n - 1)

This function is just a function. It is not an instance method. It is 
not even a class method. It does not belong here and should not be here.

If you insist on putting it where it does not belong, then you have to 
call it by a name that works.  If you only call it after the class 
statement has finished, then 'Demo.fact_rec' works, as I believe someone 
else pointed out.

If you want to call the function during class creation, before (in this 
case) Demo exists, then binding it to a local name works. With 3.1

class Demo:
    def f1(n):
       if n < 2: return 1
       else:     return n * Demo.f1(n - 1)

    def f2(n,f):
       if n < 2: return 1
       else:     return n * f(n - 1, f)

    cvar = f2(5, f2)

print(Demo.f1(5), Demo.cvar, Demo.f2(5,Demo.f2))

# prints
 >>>
120 120 120

> Recursive functions should be OK wherever functions are OK.

Iteration can and has been viewed as within-frame recursion. When 
iterative rather than recursive syntax is used, the naming issue is
avoided.

> Is there any good reason (from the point of view of Python's overall
> design) for not fixing this?

After reading the above, what, if anything, do you think still needs to 
be fixed?

Before 2.2, Python functions were more encapsulated than they are today 
in that they could only access local and global namespaces but not outer 
function namespaces.  It would be possible to further de-encapsulate 
them by giving them direct access to lexically surrounding class 
namespaces, but this would increase the problem of name clashes without 
solving any real problems in proper Python code. It could also break the 
intentional design principle that function code should mean the same 
thing whether placed within or without a class statement. This principle 
allows functions to be added to existing classes as attributes and work 
as methods that same as if they had been defined with the class.

Terry Jan Reedy



From mensanator at aol.com  Wed Aug 26 13:58:12 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 10:58:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
References:  
	 
	
	
	
	<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com> 
	
	
	
	
	<02a31f91$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<44bcb727-0885-4d4f-9c11-ca60a39b0d91@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<02a3e1e2$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<02a53d89$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <8d25833e-8008-42e9-ad24-10ddd4f6cbef@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 26, 9:58?am, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 11:45:28 -0700, Mensanator wrote:
> > On Aug 25, 9:14?am, Steven D'Aprano  > cybersource.com.au> wrote:
> >> On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:01:38 -0700, Mensanator wrote:
> >> >> If you want your data file to have values entered in hex, or oct, or
> >> >> even unary (1=one, 11=two, 111=three, 1111=four...) you can.
>
> >> > Unary? I think you'll find that Standard Positional Number Systems
> >> > are not defined for radix 1.
>
> >> Of course not. But unary isn't a positional number system. It's a tally
> >> system, like my example above shows. Roman numerals are another tally
> >> system. Like Roman numerals, the disadvantages of unary are that you
> >> can't represent negative numbers, zero, or fractions, and anything but
> >> addition and subtraction is difficult. But if you want to use it,
> >> perhaps out of a sense of sadism towards your users, it's easy:
> [...]
> > But without insignificant leading 0's, I fail to see the relevance of
> > unary to this discussion.
>
> It was just an example of how you can use numeric data in any format, no
> matter how obscure, weird or difficult, you can use it by passing it
> through an appropriate converter. You don't need compiler support for
> user-supplied data, you just write your own function.

Ok, no problem with that.

>
> As for insignificant leading zeroes, such a thing is meaningless in a
> base-1 tally system. Zero is the absence of a tally mark.
>
> > And what would you call a tally system of
> > radix 2? Certainly not binary.
>
> "Radix" isn't the correct term, because radix doesn't apply to tally
> counting systems. I'd accept "base 2", in the sense that the tally is
> based on two different marks.

I thought the two were equivalent, but maybe I'm wrong. Anyway, that's
a minor quibble.

> We do something similar when we mark four
> tally lines, then for five we mark a diagonal line through the previous
> four. So by analogy a base-2 tally could go:
>
> / ? ? one
> X ? ? two
> X/ ? ?three
> XX ? ?four
> XX/ ? five
> XXX ? six
> XXX/ ?seven

Sure, as long as you're consistent, there's no problem.

>
> But I certainly wouldn't call it "binary", for fear of confusion with
> radix-2 binary.

That's my point. Since the common usage of "binary" is for
Standard Positional Number System of Radix 2, it follows
that "unary" is the common usage for Standard Positional
Number System of Radix 1. That's VERY confusing since such
a system is undefined. Remember, common usage does not
necessarily properly define things. Saying simply "unary"
sounds like you're extending common usage beyond its proper
boundaries.

> Possibly binary-tally, for lack of a better term.

Then possibly unary-tally would be better than unary.
Tally systems being much less common require a less
common terminology to avoid confusion.

>
> --
> Steven



From begin.middle.end at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 14:10:27 2009
From: begin.middle.end at gmail.com (Mahi Haile)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 14:10:27 -0400
Subject: SimpleXMLRPCServer timeout issue
Message-ID: <83d424980908261110m1f70b326ua4b7668c8bd173a4@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,
I have an XML-RPC server running that is using SimpleXMLRPCServer, and I am
trying to send a relatively large file on a poor connection [simulated low
bandwidth, high latency]. The file is simply the return value of a function
call available on the server.
However, sometime in to the transfer, I get a timeout, seemingly regardless
of what I do. The server is initiated as follows:

s = SimpleXMLRPCServer((HOST, PORT), requestHandler = RequestHandler)
s.timeout = 100000  #I tried setting this to None, and also a higher number

And the exception I get is:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/python2.5/SocketServer.py", line 464, in process_request_thread
    self.finish_request(request, client_address)
  File "/python2.5/SocketServer.py", line 254, in finish_request
    self.RequestHandlerClass(request, client_address, self)
  File "/python2.5/SocketServer.py", line 522, in __init__
    self.handle()
  File "/python2.5/BaseHTTPServer.py", line 316, in handle
    self.handle_one_request()
  File "python2.5/BaseHTTPServer.py", line 310, in handle_one_request
    method()
  File "/python2.5/SimpleXMLRPCServer.py", line 481, in do_POST
    self.wfile.write(response)
  File "/python2.5/socket.py", line 262, in write
    self.flush()
  File "/python2.5/socket.py", line 249, in flush
    self._sock.sendall(buffer)
timeout: timed out

Googling resulted in similar questions asked in the CherryPy forums, and the
general suggestions seem to be to use a streaming transfer, using yield
rather than return.
Do you know how I go about solving when using the SimpleXMLRPCServer? For
what it is worth, I am running the server on Mac OS X.

Thank you,
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

From diesch at spamfence.net  Wed Aug 26 14:37:30 2009
From: diesch at spamfence.net (Florian Diesch)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 20:37:30 +0200
Subject: ubuntu dist-packages
References: 
Message-ID: 

Robin Becker  writes:

> I was surprised a couple of days ago when trying to assist a colleage
> with his python setup on a ubuntu 9.04 system.
>
> We built our c-extensions and manually copied them into place, but
> site-packages wasn't there. It seems that ubuntu now wants stuff to go
> into lib/python2.6/dist-packages.
>
> What is the relation between dist-packages/site-packages if any? Is
> this just a name change or is there some other problem being
> addressed?
>
> For developers is it best just to create one's own private
> installations from the original tarballs?

>From /usr/lib/python2.6/site.py:

,----
| For Debian and derivatives, this sys.path is augmented with directories
| for packages distributed within the distribution. Local addons go
| into /usr/local/lib/python/dist-packages, Debian addons
| install into /usr/{lib,share}/python/dist-packages.
| /usr/lib/python/site-packages is not used.
`----




   Florian
-- 



From szport at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 14:57:54 2009
From: szport at gmail.com (zaur)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 11:57:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Object's nesting scope
References: 
	<7fkqodF2llnghU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<1ea2a98f-4035-4ec6-b5a9-06b21dd6f584@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On 26 ???, 21:11, "Rami Chowdhury"  wrote:
> > person = Person():
> > ? name = "john"
> > ? age = 30
> > ? address = Address():
> > ? ? ?street = "Green Street"
> > ? ? ?no = 12
>
> Can you clarify what you mean? Would that define a Person class, and an ?
> Address class?
I suppose that someone already define classes Person ans Address.
For example, in this stupid way in a foreign module:

class Person(object):
   pass

class Address(object):
   pass

and the following statements

person = Person():
   name = "john"
   age = 30
   address = Address():
      street = "Green Street"
      no = 12

are constructing an instance as follows:

person = Person()
person.name = "john"
person.age = 30
address = person.address = Address()
address.street = "Green Street"
address.no = 12

> If you are expecting those classes to be already defined, please bear in ?
> mind that if you want, you can do this:
>
> > > > class Person(object):
>
> ? ? ? ? def __init__(self, name='Nemo', age=0, address=None):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? self.name = name
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? self.age = age
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? self.address = address
>
> > > > class Address(object):
>
> ? ? ? ? def __init__(self, street=None, no=None):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? self.street = street
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? self.no = no
>
> > > > otherperson = Person(
>
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?name = 'Bob',
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?age = 26,
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?address = Address(
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?street = 'Blue Street',
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?no = 1
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?)
>
Yes, that's right. I aware about this way of instance initialization.


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Wed Aug 26 15:00:02 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 12:00:02 -0700
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A958632.9020301@stoneleaf.us>

kj wrote:
> 
> 
> I have many years of programming experience, and a few languages,
> under my belt, but still Python scoping rules remain mysterious to
> me.  (In fact, Python's scoping behavior is the main reason I gave
> up several earlier attempts to learn Python.)
> 
> Here's a toy example illustrating what I mean.  It's a simplification
> of a real-life coding situation, in which I need to initialize a
> "private" class variable by using a recursive helper function.
> 
> class Demo(object):
>     def fact(n):
>         if n < 2:
>             return 1
>         else:
>             return n * fact(n - 1)
> 
>     _classvar = fact(5)

As has been pretty thoroughly discussed, the issue here is not 
recursion, but name lookup.

Going back through the archives I found Arnaud's post with this decorator:

def bindfunc(f):
     def boundf(*args, **kwargs):
         return f(boundf, *args, **kwargs)
     return boundf

If you use it on your fact function like so...

class Demo(object):
     @bindfunc
     def fact(recurse, n)	# recurse can be any name you like
         if n < 2:
             return 1
         else:
             return n * recurse(n-1)
     _classvar = fact(5)
     del fact			# no longer needed, and won't work
				# once class is created

This should do as you want.

As a side note, if you're going to bother asking questions on this list, 
you really should try to understand the answers.  I won't gripe at you 
too much, though, 'cause I learned a lot from the many responses given 
due to your refusal to do so.  ;-)

~Ethan~


From evaned at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 15:12:59 2009
From: evaned at gmail.com (Evan Driscoll)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 12:12:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Context manager to temporarily change the variable of a register 
	[aka write swap(a,b)]
References: <7c171ce3-56a7-482f-addd-c6c86441cba7@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<7c2c560f-d54c-492c-a847-e8ab079faea0@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> 
	<42b95155-db9d-4865-9039-c11ba556f3b4@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 26, 10:15?am, Carl Banks  wrote:
> Well, it wouldn't be a "can I rebind a variable using a with-
> statement" thread if someone didn't post a solution that they thought
> worked, but didn't test it on local variables.

I'm not going to deny it was pretty stupid... though in my defense,
I'm new at more that trivial Python coding and don't have the Python
scoping rules and such ingrained in my mind yet. :-)

Evan



From no.email at please.post  Wed Aug 26 15:20:24 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 19:20:24 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	<02a54597$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

In <02a54597$0$20629$c3e8da3 at news.astraweb.com> Steven D'Aprano  writes:

>http://docs.python.org/reference/executionmodel.html

>It is also discussed in the PEP introducing nested scopes to Python:

>http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0227/

>It's even eluded to in the tutorial:

>http://docs.python.org/tutorial/classes.html

Thanks!

kynn



From nagle at animats.com  Wed Aug 26 15:30:05 2009
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 12:30:05 -0700
Subject: Python Processor
In-Reply-To: 
References: <7670c8130908260328l6982ef4etad802a755b85a44f@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: <4a958c1b$0$1600$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

Terry Reedy wrote:
> manish wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am also wondering about how to implement a soft core reconfigurable 
>> processor in a FPGA
>> which would directly execute the compiled python bytecode.

   It probably wouldn't help much.  CPython's performance problems
come from excessive dictionary lookups, not from instruction decode.

				John Nagle


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 15:30:08 2009
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 14:30:08 -0500
Subject: quantiles of a student distribution
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-26 11:49 AM, Colin J. Williams wrote:
> Pierre wrote:
>> Hello...
>>
>> Do you know how I can calculate the quantiles of a student
>> distribution in pyhton ?
>>
>> Thanks
> You might look at:
> http://bonsai.ims.u-tokyo.ac.jp/~mdehoon/software/python/special.html

[Please pardon the piggybacking. I have not gotten the original, yet.]

Using scipy:

In [1]: from scipy import stats

In [2]: import numpy as np

In [3]: x = np.linspace(-1.0, 1.0, 21)

In [4]: x
Out[4]:
array([-1. , -0.9, -0.8, -0.7, -0.6, -0.5, -0.4, -0.3, -0.2, -0.1,  0. ,
         0.1,  0.2,  0.3,  0.4,  0.5,  0.6,  0.7,  0.8,  0.9,  1. ])

In [5]: ndof = 10

In [6]: stats.t.cdf(x, ndof)
Out[6]:
array([ 0.17044657,  0.19463963,  0.22115021,  0.24994379,  0.28092759,
         0.3139468 ,  0.3487837 ,  0.3851603 ,  0.4227446 ,  0.46116036,
         0.5       ,  0.53883964,  0.5772554 ,  0.6148397 ,  0.6512163 ,
         0.6860532 ,  0.71907241,  0.75005621,  0.77884979,  0.80536037,
         0.82955343])


-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From sridharr at activestate.com  Wed Aug 26 15:35:00 2009
From: sridharr at activestate.com (Sridhar Ratnakumar)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 12:35:00 -0700
Subject: ANN: ActivePython 3.1.1.2 is now available
Message-ID: 

I'm happy to announce that ActivePython 3.1.1.2 is now available for
download from:

       http://www.activestate.com/activepython/python3/

This is a patch release that updates ActivePython to core Python 3.1.1
We recommend that you try 2.6 version first. See the release notes for
full details:

       http://docs.activestate.com/activepython/3.1/relnotes.html


What is ActivePython?
---------------------

ActivePython is ActiveState's binary distribution of Python. Builds
for Windows, Mac OS X, Linux, HP-UX and AIX are made freely available.

ActivePython includes the Python core and the many core extensions:
zlib and bzip2 for data compression, the Berkeley DB (bsddb) and
SQLite (sqlite3) database libraries, OpenSSL bindings for HTTPS
support, the Tix GUI widgets for Tkinter, ElementTree for XML
processing, ctypes (on supported platforms) for low-level library
access, and others. The Windows distribution ships with PyWin32 -- a
suite of Windows tools developed by Mark Hammond, including bindings
to the Win32 API and Windows COM. See this page for full details:

       http://docs.activestate.com/activepython/3.1/whatsincluded.html

As well, ActivePython ships with a wealth of documentation for both
new and experienced Python programmers. In addition to the core Python
docs, ActivePython includes the "What's New in Python" series, "Dive
into Python", the Python FAQs & HOWTOs, and the Python Enhancement
Proposals (PEPs).

An online version of the docs can be found here:

       http://docs.activestate.com/activepython/

We would welcome any and all feedback to:

       ActivePython-feedback at activestate.com

Please file bugs against ActivePython at:

       http://bugs.activestate.com/query.cgi?set_product=ActivePython


On what platforms does ActivePython run?
----------------------------------------

ActivePython includes installers for the following platforms:

- Windows/x86
- Windows/x64 (aka "AMD64")
- Mac OS X
- Linux/x86
- Linux/x86_64 (aka "AMD64")
- Solaris/SPARC
- Solaris/x86
- HP-UX/PA-RISC
- AIX/PowerPC
- AIX/PowerPC64


Extra Bits
----------

ActivePython releases also include the following:

- ActivePythonXY.chm: An MS compiled help collection of the full
     ActivePython documentation set. Linux users of applications such as
     xCHM might find this useful. This package is installed by default on
     Windows.

Extra bits are available from:

       http://downloads.activestate.com/ActivePython/etc/
	

Thanks, and enjoy!

The Python Team

--
Sridhar Ratnakumar
sridharr at activestate.com


From davea at ieee.org  Wed Aug 26 15:50:46 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:50:46 -0400
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: <90b1ff07-19cf-4eeb-abc5-80445da9f790@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: 	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
		
	<90b1ff07-19cf-4eeb-abc5-80445da9f790@h21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A959216.3080507@ieee.org>

Carl Banks wrote:
> On Aug 26, 8:13 am, Dave Angel  wrote:
>   
>> You can probably work around this by replacing the staticmethod
>> decorator with an equivalent function call:.
>>
>> class Demo9(object):
>>     def fact(n):
>>         if n < 2:
>>             return 1
>>         else:
>>             return n * Demo.fact(n - 1)
>>
>>     _classvar =act(5)
>>     fact =taticmethod(fact)
>>
>> print Demo9._classvar
>> xx =emo9()
>> print xx.fact(6)
>> print Demo9.fact(8)
>>     
>
> This won't work normally.  It only worked for you because you made a
> typo.
>
>
> Carl Banks
>
>   
Sorry about the typo.  I was trying out several different versions of 
the class in the same module, and forgot to include to change Demo to 
Demo9 in the recursive call.

I didn't like that approach anyway, as it smacked of taking advantage of 
some implementation accident.  The other approaches are more 
straightforward.


DaveA


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Aug 26 15:56:54 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 20:56:54 +0100
Subject: Object's nesting scope
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<7fkqodF2llnghU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>	<1ea2a98f-4035-4ec6-b5a9-06b21dd6f584@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>	
	
Message-ID: <4A959386.6060809@mrabarnett.plus.com>

zaur wrote:
> On 26 ???, 21:11, "Rami Chowdhury"  wrote:
>>> person = Person():
>>>   name = "john"
>>>   age = 30
>>>   address = Address():
>>>      street = "Green Street"
>>>      no = 12
>> Can you clarify what you mean? Would that define a Person class, and an  
>> Address class?
> I suppose that someone already define classes Person ans Address.
> For example, in this stupid way in a foreign module:
> 
> class Person(object):
>    pass
> 
> class Address(object):
>    pass
> 
> and the following statements
> 
> person = Person():
>    name = "john"
>    age = 30
>    address = Address():
>       street = "Green Street"
>       no = 12
> 
> are constructing an instance as follows:
> 
> person = Person()
> person.name = "john"
> person.age = 30
> address = person.address = Address()
> address.street = "Green Street"
> address.no = 12
> 
[snip]

Create factory functions:

def new_address(**kwargs):
     address = Address()
     address.__dict__.update(kwargs)
     return address

def new_person(**kwargs):
     person = Person()
     person.__dict__.update(kwargs)
     return person

person = new_person(name="john", age=30, 
address=new_address(street="Green Street", no=12))



From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Aug 26 16:03:45 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 21:03:45 +0100
Subject: pygtk - What is the best way to change the mouse pointer
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A959521.8020505@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Ido Levy wrote:
> Hello All,
> 
> I am writing a dialog which one of its widget is a gtk.ComboBoxEntry ( 
> let's assume widget in the example below is its instance )
> When the user select one of the values from the gtk.ComboBoxEntry I need 
> to run some calculations that takes a few seconds.
> In order to reflect calculation time to the user I want to switch the 
> mouse pointer to an hour glass and back to arrow what it finish the 
> calculation.
> 
> I use the following code but it doesn't seems to work in a deterministic 
> way. From time to time it skips the last line and keep the mouse pointer 
> as an hour glass.
> 
>         watch = gtk.gdk.Cursor(gtk.gdk.WATCH)
>         widget.window.set_cursor(watch)
> 
>         calculation code
> 
>         widget.window.set_cursor(None)
> 
> I would appreciate your advice on the right way to implement this.
> 
Could the calculation code be raising an exception? Try adding some
logging to see whether the last lien is actually being called. You could
also use a try...finally... block to ensure that the last line is
called:

     watch = gtk.gdk.Cursor(gtk.gdk.WATCH)
     widget.window.set_cursor(watch)
     try:
         calculation code
     finally:
         widget.window.set_cursor(None)



From find.mig at paa.google  Wed Aug 26 16:06:01 2009
From: find.mig at paa.google (Esben von Buchwald)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 22:06:01 +0200
Subject: Protecting against callbacks queuing up?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4a91db65$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>		<4a93e575$0$298$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
	
Message-ID: <4a9595ca$0$300$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>

Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:
>> would that be usable?
> Probably
>> If so, how?
> 
> This is a guess, for your device,  but I suspect
> something along these lines:
> 
> t = Ao_timer()
> 
> cb = t.after(100,thing_that_does_the_work(with_its_arguments))
> 
> Lots of assumptions here - the 100 should give you a tenth of a second...
> Don't know what the arguments look like, and if you need to pass an instance 
> (like self) - that would depend on where you are calling it from.
> 
> Play and see :-)
> 
> You should also be able to cancel the callback like this:
> 
> t.cancel(cb)
> 
> If you do it before the time out
> 
> - Hendrik
> 

I don't really get it...

I can see that I should put a t.after(...) around the function that does 
the work, when calling it. That delays each call for the given period. I 
just tried it out, the console keeps saying
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "c:\resource\python25\python25.zip\sensorfw.py", line 499, in 
data_cb
   File "c:\resource\python25\python25.zip\sensorfw.py", line 160, in 
custom_cb
   File "e:\python\r3s_contextdata.py", line 79, in acc_filter
     self.acc_callback()
   File "e:\python\r3s_contextdata.py", line 85, in acc_callback
     self.doCallback()
   File "e:\python\r3s_contextdata.py", line 47, in doCallback
     self.at.after(0.05,self.data_callback)
RuntimeError: Timer pending - cancel first

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

It seems like i should cancel the current counting timer, when a new 
call comes in - but how to determine when to cancel etc?

I'm kind of new to all this async python stuff.


From find.mig at paa.google  Wed Aug 26 16:07:25 2009
From: find.mig at paa.google (Esben von Buchwald)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 22:07:25 +0200
Subject: Protecting against callbacks queuing up?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4a91db65$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>		<4a92b290$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>		<4a93e575$0$298$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
	
Message-ID: <4a95961d$0$300$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:21:16 +0200, Esben von Buchwald
>  declaimed the following in
> gmane.comp.python.general:
> 
>> This is how the accelerometer is accessed
>> http://pys60.garage.maemo.org/doc/s60/node59.html
>>
>> I found this called "after"...
>> http://pys60.garage.maemo.org/doc/s60/node12.html
>>
>> would that be usable?

> 
> 	Based on the documentation... I'd suggest...
> 
> 	def doCallback(self):
> 		self.accelerometer.stop_listening()
> 		self.data_callback()
> 		self.accelerometer.start_listening()
> 
> with appropriate changes to whatever reference you use for the
> accelerometer would solve the problem... IE, when the callback is
> triggered, you STOP the accelerometer action, compute results, and then
> restart the accelerometer..

I just tried that - it made the application lock up, leaving the sensors 
unusable until next reboot of the phone.

I don't think these start/stop calls are supposed to be called as often 
as it does the callback...


From no.email at please.post  Wed Aug 26 16:11:02 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 20:11:02 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

In  Ethan Furman  writes:

>Going back through the archives I found Arnaud's post with this decorator:

>def bindfunc(f):
>     def boundf(*args, **kwargs):
>         return f(boundf, *args, **kwargs)
>     return boundf

>If you use it on your fact function like so...

>class Demo(object):
>     @bindfunc
>     def fact(recurse, n)	# recurse can be any name you like
>         if n < 2:
>             return 1
>         else:
>             return n * recurse(n-1)
>     _classvar = fact(5)
>     del fact			# no longer needed, and won't work
>				# once class is created

>This should do as you want.

Thanks, this is instructive.

>As a side note, if you're going to bother asking questions on this list, 
>you really should try to understand the answers.

I think I understand the answers well enough.  What I *really*
don't understand is why this particular "feature" of Python (i.e.
that functions defined within a class statement are forbidden from
"seeing" other identifiers defined within the class statement) is
generally considered to be perfectly OK.  IMO it's a bizarre,
inexplicable blindspot (which, among other things, gives rise to
a certain worry about what other similar craziness lurks under
Python's image of rationality).  I have never seen even a half-hearted
justification, from a language design point of view, for why this
particular "feature" is worth having.  Maybe some day the BDFL will
deign to give one.

kynn


From no.email at please.post  Wed Aug 26 16:16:54 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 20:16:54 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: 

In <7figv3F2m3p0dU1 at mid.uni-berlin.de> "Diez B. Roggisch"  writes:

>But if you insist on the above methodology, you can do this:

>class Demo(object):

>    def fact(n):
>        def inner(n):
>            if n < 2:
>                return 1
>            else:
>                return n * inner(n - 1)
>        return inner(n)

>    _classvar = fact(5)

>This makes inner a *local* variable, which is found.

Thanks for this.  I think this is the most straightforward workaround.

kynn


From no.email at please.post  Wed Aug 26 16:35:28 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 20:35:28 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<16b72319-8023-471c-ba40-8025aa6d462e@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<1bf83a7e-f9eb-46ff-84fe-cf42d9608e71@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	
	<2a7gm6-9h.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: 

In <2a7gm6-9h.ln1 at satorlaser.homedns.org> Ulrich Eckhardt  writes:

>kj wrote:
>> class Demo(object):
>>     def fact_iter(n):
>>         ret = 1
>>         for i in range(1, n + 1):
>>             ret *= i
>>         return ret
>> 
>>     def fact_rec(n):
>>         if n < 2:
>>             return 1
>>         else:
>>             return n * fact_rec(n - 1)
>> 
>>     classvar1 = fact_iter(5)
>>     classvar2 = fact_rec(5)
>> 
>> 
>> In the initialization of classvar1, fact_iter is invoked without
>> any problem even though the class is not yet created: no need to
>> qualify it with the name of the class.  This is completely inconsistent
>> with the requirement that fact_rec be so qualified when invoked
>> within fact_rec.

>Let me take a shot at explaining this, maybe it helps that I'm mostly a C++
>guy....

Thanks for your reply.

>I fully agree that this case is rather vexing to my (and obviously your)
>biased brain. I wouldn't call this a bug before fully understanding why
>e.g. you can not access a class before its definition is finished.

I understand this, what I don't understand is why do it this way.
I've been trying to understand this particular design point for
*literally* years.

>I think
>someone mentioned one or two PEPs, which are the design documents that
>explain Python including the rationale, I'd use that as a starting point.

I'm reading PEP 227 now, suggested by Steven D'Aprano.  In it I
find statements like the following alert: 

    (Note: If a region is contained within a class definition, the
    name bindings that occur in the class block are not visible to
    enclosed functions.)

I've seen this before, but never an explanation for why having this
restriction.  It's just one of life's mysteries.  (Incidentally,
the fact that the author of PEP 227 felt it necessary to add that
parenthetical remark suggests that the expectation it warns against
is not so crazy after all.)

But I'm still not done with PEP 227.  Maybe I'll see the light by
the time I'm done.

kynn


From grahn+nntp at snipabacken.se  Wed Aug 26 16:38:15 2009
From: grahn+nntp at snipabacken.se (Jorgen Grahn)
Date: 26 Aug 2009 20:38:15 GMT
Subject: ubuntu dist-packages
References: 
	<7fki3lF2kirnkU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 17:20:35 +0100, Robin Becker  wrote:
> Jorgen Grahn wrote:
>> On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 12:46:13 +0200, Diez B. Roggisch
> ........
>> Well, if you are thinking about Debian Linux, it's not as much
>> "ripping out" as "splitting into a separate package with a non-obvious
>> name". Annoying at times, but hardly an atrocity.

> so where is the official place for user installed stuff on
> ubuntu/debian ie will 
> there be dist-packages and site-packages.

I don't know, but I know Debian has a group of people working out how
to package Python and software written in Python.  Those guys have a
home page somewhere at debian.org -- there should be information
there, and/or under /usr/share/doc/python* on your system.

Another answer is "let distutils do its job and do not worry", but
sometimes you need to know the rules and the reasons ...

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn    O  o   .


From dullrich at sprynet.com  Wed Aug 26 16:47:23 2009
From: dullrich at sprynet.com (David C Ullrich)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:47:23 -0500
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
References: 
	<7a9c25c20908240849p283cb70o50f374a4f8c867b@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<81ac68ae-c7fc-4caa-a04f-f358ffb78864@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 22:22:20 -0700, sturlamolden wrote:

> On 25 Aug, 05:56, Peter Decker  wrote:
> 
>> I use the Dabo Class Designer to visually design my forms. So what's
>> you're point? ?:)
> 
> Nothing, except lobbying for wxFormBuilder for anyone who still doesn't
> know of it. :)

That's great. But do you know of anything I can use as a
visual form design tool in wxPython?



From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Wed Aug 26 16:48:01 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 22:48:01 +0200
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

26-08-2009 o 09:03:27 Ulrich Eckhardt  wrote:

> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>> class Color:
>>     def __init__(self, r, g,b):
>>           pass
>>     BLACK = Color(0,0,0)
>>
>> It make sens from a design point of view to put BLACK in the Color
>> namespace. But I don't think it's possible with python.
>
> class Color:
>     ...
>
> setattrib(Color, "BLACK", Color(0,0,0))

Or simpler:

     class Color:
         ...

     Color.BLACK = Color(...)

Then
(Color.BLACK is Color.BLACK.BLACK.BLACK.BLACK) == True
:-)

*j

PS. Obviously, that's nothing special (there is no problem with
creating such "recursive" references in Python).

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From cripto at ecn.org  Wed Aug 26 16:56:16 2009
From: cripto at ecn.org (Anonymous)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 22:56:16 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: print() and unicode strings (python 3.1)
Message-ID: <20090826205616.2B9231A7B03@www.ecn.org>

Have you considered including an encoding line at the top of your file, as described in PEP 0263:
http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0263/

I just ran into a similar error, but it went away when I included 
# coding: utf-8
as the first line in my file. 



From kyrie at uh.cu  Wed Aug 26 17:00:11 2009
From: kyrie at uh.cu (Luis Zarrabeitia)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 17:00:11 -0400
Subject: Confessions of a Python fanboy
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<200907301757.48761.kyrie@uh.cu>
	
Message-ID: <200908261700.12060.kyrie@uh.cu>

On Friday 31 July 2009 04:08:33 am Masklinn wrote:
> On 30 Jul 2009, at 23:57 , Luis Zarrabeitia wrote:
> > I'd like to ask, what "container.each" is, exactly? It looks like a
> > function
> > call (as I've learned a few posts ago), but, what are its arguments?
> > How the
> > looping "works"? Does it receive a "code" object that it has to
> > execute?
> > Is .each some kind of magic keyword? (This has little to do with
> > python or
> > the current thread, so feel free to reply off-list if you want to...)
>
> #each is simply a method that takes a function (called blocks in
> ruby). One could call it a higher-order method I guess.
>
> It's an implementation of the concept of internal iteration: instead
> of collections yielding iterator objects, and programmers using those
> through specially-built iteration constructs (e.g. `for?in`),
> collections control iteration over themselves (the iteration is
> performed "inside" the collection, thus the "internal" part) and the
> programmer provides the operations to perform at each iterative step
> through (usually) a function.

Interesting. I know what internal iteration is, and I suspected it was along 
these lines when I saw the syntax and that .each was a function and not a 
keyword. But if it is internal iteration and the .each method is receiving an 
anonymous function, I wonder what is the scope of the variables in that 
function. In pseudo-python terms (using your example),

     x = 5
     some_list.each((def (item):
         do_something(item, x)
         x = do_something_else(item)
     ))

(or something like that). In python, the inner function would be invalid 
(the 'x' is local). For that construct to be equivalent to a for loop, the 
anonymous function shouldn't create a new scope. Is that what is happening? 
(If it is, this would be a big difference between anonymous and non-anonymous 
functions). 

Anyway, this is OT. Thank you for your reply.
(ah, sorry for taking so long... I was out of town)

-- 
Luis Zarrabeitia (aka Kyrie)
Fac. de Matem?tica y Computaci?n, UH.
http://profesores.matcom.uh.cu/~kyrie


From paul at boddie.org.uk  Wed Aug 26 17:00:26 2009
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 14:00:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ubuntu dist-packages
References:  
	<7fki3lF2kirnkU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
Message-ID: <71f5986e-6aae-46b0-8325-d67051c60a30@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On 26 Aug, 17:48, Jorgen Grahn  wrote:
>
> Well, if you are thinking about Debian Linux, it's not as much
> "ripping out" as "splitting into a separate package with a non-obvious
> name". Annoying at times, but hardly an atrocity.

Indeed. Having seen two packages today which insisted on setuptools,
neither really needing it, and with one actively trying to download
stuff from the Internet (fifteen seconds warning - how generous!) when
running setup.py, it seems to me that it isn't the distribution
packagers who need to be re-thinking how they install Python software.

Generally, distributions have to manage huge amounts of software and
uphold reasonable policies without creating unnecessary maintenance.
Sadly, until very recently (and I'm still not entirely sure if there's
really been an attitude change) the Pythonic packaging brigade has
refused to even consider the needs of one of the biggest groups of
consumers of the upstream code. Consequently, distributions will
always devise different ways of storing installed Python software,
documentation and resources, mostly because the Pythonic tools have
been deficient, particularly in the management of the latter
categories.

Paul


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Wed Aug 26 17:02:42 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 23:02:42 +0200
Subject: all possible matchings of elements of two lists
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

26-08-2009 o 12:05:41 Sandy  wrote:

> Hi all,
> I basically want all possible matchings of elements from two lists,
> Ex: [1,2] [a,b,c]
>
> Required:
>    [ [(1,a),(2,b)]
>      [(1,b),(2,c)]
>      [(1,c),(2,b)]
>      [(1,b),(2,a)]
>      [(1,c),(2,a)]
>      [(1,a),(2,c)]
>    ]
>
> My thought is to get all possible permutations of two lists given and
> select any combination and use zip to get the tuples. Repeat this for
> all possible combinations.
>
> Any other ideas?

See: module itertools -- there are (OOTB) some combinatoric generators
that may be useful for you.

*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From martin at v.loewis.de  Wed Aug 26 17:10:41 2009
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 23:10:41 +0200
Subject: break unichr instead of fix ord?
In-Reply-To: <2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A95A4D1.9060008@v.loewis.de>

> In Python 2.5 on Windows I could do [*1]:
> 
>   >>> a = unichr (65600)
>   >>> a[0],a[1]
>   (u'\ud800', u'\udc40')

I can't reproduce that. My copy of Python on Windows gives

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
    unichr(65600)
ValueError: unichr() arg not in range(0x10000) (narrow Python build)

This is

Python 2.5.4 (r254:67916, Dec 23 2008, 15:10:54) [MSC v.1310 32 bit
(Intel)] on win32

Regards,
Martin


From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Wed Aug 26 17:19:05 2009
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 22:19:05 +0100
Subject: Python Processor
In-Reply-To: <4a958c1b$0$1600$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
References: <7670c8130908260328l6982ef4etad802a755b85a44f@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<4a958c1b$0$1600$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: 

John Nagle wrote:

> CPython's performance problems
> come from excessive dictionary lookups, not from instruction decode.
> 
>                 John Nagle

Could you please suggest some background information/links to this?
I tried to Google for it but unsurprisingly any combination with 
'cpython' and 'performance' results (to me that is) in a haystack of rants.

I did find http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0339/ but I would ideally 
like to read something more in depth but still in reasonable easy language.

-- 
MPH
http://blog.dcuktec.com
'If consumed, best digested with added seasoning to own preference.'


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Wed Aug 26 17:23:47 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 14:23:47 -0700
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	
	
Message-ID: <4A95A7E3.7040900@stoneleaf.us>

kj wrote:
> I think I understand the answers well enough.  What I *really*
> don't understand is why this particular "feature" of Python (i.e.
> that functions defined within a class statement are forbidden from
> "seeing" other identifiers defined within the class statement) is
> generally considered to be perfectly OK.  IMO it's a bizarre,
> inexplicable blindspot (which, among other things, gives rise to
> a certain worry about what other similar craziness lurks under
> Python's image of rationality).  I have never seen even a half-hearted
> justification, from a language design point of view, for why this
> particular "feature" is worth having.  Maybe some day the BDFL will
> deign to give one.
> 
> kynn

You keep using that word.  I do not think it means what you think it 
means.  :)

Keep studying.  Listen.  Learn how it *is*.  Understanding may come later.

~Ethan~


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Wed Aug 26 17:24:32 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 23:24:32 +0200
Subject: Web Services examples using "raw" xml?
References: 
	<7fgbv7F2l9u4oU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: 

>>>>> "Diez B. Roggisch"  (DBR) wrote:

>DBR> John Gordon schrieb:
>>> I'm developing a program that will use web services, which I have never
>>> used before.
>>> 
>>> There are several tutorials out there that advise you to get the WSDL
>>> and then call a method (such as wsdl2py) that inspects the wsdl and
>>> automagically generates the python classes and methods you need for
>>> interacting with that web service.
>>> 
>>> I've tried this, and have run into a number of roadblocks that have left
>>> me frustrated.

>DBR> Welcome to the wonderful world of SOAP. If you didn't know - the S stands
>DBR> for simple [1].

Stood. Like the O was supposed to stand for Object. Now out of shame
they tend to talk more about `Service Oriented Architecture Protocol'.
Whichever is a greater abomination you may choose (that almost sounds
like Yoda-speak).
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From ignace.danneels at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 17:40:24 2009
From: ignace.danneels at gmail.com (BlueFlash)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 14:40:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How do I insert a menu item in an existing menu.
Message-ID: <73dd8da1-7b1e-4065-9c2f-2cee554093e2@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

Idea:  Use of a RecentFileList, update element 0 with new file opened.

Appending a menu is easy
menu.Append(-1, "Menu Name")

when I try to insert a new menu item
menu.Insert(-1, position, "Menu Name")

does not work.

full code:
    def addnew(self, position, path):
        path = path.strip()
        try:
            self.filelist.index(path)     # index() throws ValueError
if path does not exist.
        except:
            # ValueError, path is not in list, so add it:
            if position >= len(self.filelist):
                self.filelist.append(path)
                item = self.menu.Append(-1, path)  #this does return a
menu item
                self.window.Bind(wx.EVT_MENU, self.event, item)
            else:
                self.filelist.insert(position, path)
                item = self.menu.InsertItem(-1, position, path) # does
Not return a menu item.  throws some exception.
                print item
                #self.window.Bind(wx.EVT_MENU, self.event, item)


How do I remove a menu item from a menu?  The RecentUsedList is eg: 4
element long.  When opening a new file, this should be added at the
top, and the 4th element must be dropped.


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Wed Aug 26 17:54:16 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 23:54:16 +0200
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> 
	<02a54597$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: 

26-08-2009 o 17:45:54 kj  wrote:

> In <02a54597$0$20629$c3e8da3 at news.astraweb.com> Steven D'Aprano  
>  writes:
>
>> On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 10:57:32 +0000, kj wrote:
>
>>> Recursion!  One of the central concepts in the theory of
>>> functions!  This is shown most clearly by the following elaboration of
>>> my original example:
>>>
>>> class Demo(object):
>>>     def fact_rec(n):
>>>         if n < 2:
>>>             return 1
>>>         else:
>>>             return n * fact_rec(n - 1)
>
>> Why are you defining a method without a self parameter?
>
> Because, as I've explained elsewhere, it is not a method: it's a
> "helper" function, meant to be called only once, within the class
> statement itself.
>
> Well, this is not strictly true, because the function is recursive,
> so it will also call itself a few times.  But still, all these
> calls happen (loosely speaking) "within the class statement".
>
> In fact the only reason to use a function for such initialization
> work is when one needs recursion; otherwise there's no point in
> defining a function that will only be invoked exactly once.

1. I don't understand then... Why do you desire to both define and
run it *within* that class statement as if it was this class's
method?

2. Could you please show me how it could be done in C++ or Java?
(Or you want to say that that languages also are not fully valuable
OO languages?)

3. Python makes function bodies "agnostic" about the context of their
definition -- generally any non-global information must be passed
explicitly to their interior. *It has nothing to do with recursion.*

If you really must both define and use such a function within the
class definition, pass function object to itself explicitly, and
everybody will be happy:


     class Demo(object):

         def fact(fact, n):
             if n < 2:
                 return 1
             else:
                 return n * fact(fact, n - 1)

         fact(fact, 3)


*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From http  Wed Aug 26 17:57:25 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 26 Aug 2009 14:57:25 -0700
Subject: Zlib: correct checksum but error decompressing
References: <99c381ef-a146-4545-9344-7b15d60441de@y20g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xk50qz1a2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Andre  writes:
> I have been trying to solve this issue for a while now. I receive data
> from a TCP connection which is compressed.

Are you sure it is compressed with zlib?  If yes, does it include the
standard zlib header?  Some applications save a few bytes by stripping
the header.  See the zlib doc page for how to deal with that, there is
a flag that causes the header check to be skipped on decompression if
you pass a negative number.  That's the first thing I would try.


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Wed Aug 26 17:59:57 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 23:59:57 +0200
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal
	notation
References: 
	
	
	
	
	<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com>
	
	
	
	
	<02a31f91$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<44bcb727-0885-4d4f-9c11-ca60a39b0d91@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<02a3e1e2$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<02a53d89$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<8d25833e-8008-42e9-ad24-10ddd4f6cbef@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Mensanator  (M) wrote:

>M> That's my point. Since the common usage of "binary" is for
>M> Standard Positional Number System of Radix 2, it follows
>M> that "unary" is the common usage for Standard Positional
>M> Number System of Radix 1. That's VERY confusing since such
>M> a system is undefined. Remember, common usage does not
>M> necessarily properly define things. Saying simply "unary"
>M> sounds like you're extending common usage beyond its proper
>M> boundaries.

But the customary meaning of `unary' is the tally system, as a radix
system wouldn't make sense. I don't know when this term came into use
but I have known it for a long time. 
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Wed Aug 26 18:12:58 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 23:12:58 +0100
Subject: How do I insert a menu item in an existing menu.
In-Reply-To: <73dd8da1-7b1e-4065-9c2f-2cee554093e2@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
References: <73dd8da1-7b1e-4065-9c2f-2cee554093e2@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A95B36A.9070109@mrabarnett.plus.com>

BlueFlash wrote:
> Idea:  Use of a RecentFileList, update element 0 with new file opened.
> 
> Appending a menu is easy
> menu.Append(-1, "Menu Name")
> 
> when I try to insert a new menu item
> menu.Insert(-1, position, "Menu Name")
> 
> does not work.
> 

The following comments are the result of a brief search of the web, so 
I'm not sure whether they're correct, but they might be worth a try.

> full code:
>     def addnew(self, position, path):
>         path = path.strip()
>         try:
>             self.filelist.index(path)     # index() throws ValueError
> if path does not exist.
>         except:
>             # ValueError, path is not in list, so add it:
>             if position >= len(self.filelist):
>                 self.filelist.append(path)
>                 item = self.menu.Append(-1, path)  #this does return a
> menu item
>                 self.window.Bind(wx.EVT_MENU, self.event, item)
>             else:
>                 self.filelist.insert(position, path)
>                 item = self.menu.InsertItem(-1, position, path) # does
> Not return a menu item.  throws some exception.

I think it should be:

     item = self.menu.InsertItem(position, -1, path)

>                 print item
>                 #self.window.Bind(wx.EVT_MENU, self.event, item)
> 
> 
> How do I remove a menu item from a menu?  The RecentUsedList is eg: 4
> element long.  When opening a new file, this should be added at the
> top, and the 4th element must be dropped.

I think you need the 'Remove' method.


From ubershmekel at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 18:16:20 2009
From: ubershmekel at gmail.com (RunThePun)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:16:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Overriding iadd for dictionary like objects
Message-ID: 

I'd like to build a database wrapper using DictMixin and allow items
to be appended by my own code. The problem is += is always understood
as setitem and getitem plainly.

d = MyDict()
d['a'] = 1

# this is the problem code that's I'd like to override. It's always
setitem('a', getitem('a') + 3)
d['a'] += 3
# i wanted to do something like my own 'appenditem' function which for
example could be useful if getitem is an expensive operation which can
be avoided.

I hope that was clear enough of a request, it's really late at night
here...

thanks,

RunPun


From stef.mientki at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 18:24:34 2009
From: stef.mientki at gmail.com (Stef Mientki)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 00:24:34 +0200
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<7a9c25c20908240849p283cb70o50f374a4f8c867b@mail.gmail.com>		<81ac68ae-c7fc-4caa-a04f-f358ffb78864@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>		
	
Message-ID: <4A95B622.50705@gmail.com>

David C Ullrich wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 22:22:20 -0700, sturlamolden wrote:
>
>   
>> On 25 Aug, 05:56, Peter Decker  wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> I use the Dabo Class Designer to visually design my forms. So what's
>>> you're point?  :)
>>>       
>> Nothing, except lobbying for wxFormBuilder for anyone who still doesn't
>> know of it. :)
>>     
>
> That's great. But do you know of anything I can use as a
> visual form design tool in wxPython?
>
>   
Not a real form designer, but very convenient is XRC or GUI-support
http://mientki.ruhosting.nl/data_www/pylab_works/pw_gui_support.html

cheers,
Stef


From john_ladasky at sbcglobal.net  Wed Aug 26 18:26:13 2009
From: john_ladasky at sbcglobal.net (John Ladasky)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:26:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How do I insert a menu item in an existing menu.
References: <73dd8da1-7b1e-4065-9c2f-2cee554093e2@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

You might want to direct your wxPython questions to the dedicated
wxPython newsgroup.  It's Google-only, and thus not part of the Usenet
hierarchy.  But it's the most on-topic newsgroup you will find.

http://groups.google.com/group/wxpython-users

I attempted to crosspost this article to wx-python users, but that
doesn't work for non-Usenet groups... Good luck!


From matthew.bellis at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 18:27:55 2009
From: matthew.bellis at gmail.com (Matt Bellis)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:27:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to exclude "import"s from PyDoc
Message-ID: 

Hi all,

  I tried PyDoc today for documentation for a small project on which
I'm working. I have a class, foo, in foo.py. However, at the beginning
of the file I "from math import *".

   When I use PyDoc, it's pulling in all the math functions....

---snip---
.
.
.
FUNCTIONS
    acos(...)
        acos(x)

        Return the arc cosine (measured in radians) of x.

    asin(...)
        asin(x)

        Return the arc sine (measured in radians) of x.

.
.
.
----snip----


   Anyone know the best way to get PyDoc to ignore this (or other)
imported module(s)?

   Thanks in advance.

Matt


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 18:48:33 2009
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 17:48:33 -0500
Subject: Overriding iadd for dictionary like objects
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-26 17:16 PM, RunThePun wrote:
> I'd like to build a database wrapper using DictMixin and allow items
> to be appended by my own code. The problem is += is always understood
> as setitem and getitem plainly.
>
> d = MyDict()
> d['a'] = 1
>
> # this is the problem code that's I'd like to override. It's always
> setitem('a', getitem('a') + 3)
> d['a'] += 3
> # i wanted to do something like my own 'appenditem' function which for
> example could be useful if getitem is an expensive operation which can
> be avoided.
>
> I hope that was clear enough of a request, it's really late at night
> here...

I'm sorry, this is just part of the syntax of Python. You cannot override it.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From mensanator at aol.com  Wed Aug 26 18:58:43 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:58:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
References:  
	
	
	
	<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com> 
	
	
	
	
	<02a31f91$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<44bcb727-0885-4d4f-9c11-ca60a39b0d91@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<02a3e1e2$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<02a53d89$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<8d25833e-8008-42e9-ad24-10ddd4f6cbef@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 26, 4:59?pm, Piet van Oostrum  wrote:
> >>>>> Mensanator  (M) wrote:
> >M> That's my point. Since the common usage of "binary" is for
> >M> Standard Positional Number System of Radix 2, it follows
> >M> that "unary" is the common usage for Standard Positional
> >M> Number System of Radix 1. That's VERY confusing since such
> >M> a system is undefined. Remember, common usage does not
> >M> necessarily properly define things. Saying simply "unary"
> >M> sounds like you're extending common usage beyond its proper
> >M> boundaries.
>
> But the customary meaning of `unary' is the tally system, as a radix
> system wouldn't make sense. I don't know when this term came into use
> but I have known it for a long time.

Ok, I'll accept that and in the same breath say such common usage
is stupid. I, for one, have never heard such usage and would never
use "unary" in the same breath as "decimal, octal, binary" even if
I had.

> --
> Piet van Oostrum 
> URL:http://pietvanoostrum.com[PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
> Private email: p... at vanoostrum.org



From deets at nospam.web.de  Wed Aug 26 19:01:26 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 01:01:26 +0200
Subject: How to exclude "import"s from PyDoc
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7flt66F2lho6lU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Matt Bellis schrieb:
> Hi all,
> 
>   I tried PyDoc today for documentation for a small project on which
> I'm working. I have a class, foo, in foo.py. However, at the beginning
> of the file I "from math import *".
> 
>    When I use PyDoc, it's pulling in all the math functions....
> 
> ---snip---
> .
> .
> .
> FUNCTIONS
>     acos(...)
>         acos(x)
> 
>         Return the arc cosine (measured in radians) of x.
> 
>     asin(...)
>         asin(x)
> 
>         Return the arc sine (measured in radians) of x.
> 
> .
> .
> .
> ----snip----
> 
> 
>    Anyone know the best way to get PyDoc to ignore this (or other)
> imported module(s)?

Don't know about pydoc, but epydoc (which generates much nicer docs 
imho) can be forced to only include certain packages.

Diez


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Wed Aug 26 19:08:53 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 16:08:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
References: 
	<7a9c25c20908240849p283cb70o50f374a4f8c867b@mail.gmail.com> 
	
	<81ac68ae-c7fc-4caa-a04f-f358ffb78864@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
Message-ID: <843fa78f-da92-4714-bac5-8807bf11e35a@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On 26 Aug, 22:47, David C Ullrich  wrote:

> > Nothing, except lobbying for wxFormBuilder for anyone who still doesn't
> > know of it. :)
>
> That's great. But do you know of anything I can use as a
> visual form design tool in wxPython?

Right... I don't know if you are trying to be funny, but as I said
there is wxFormBuilder...

3.0 generates XRC that you can use with wxPython.
3.1 beta generates wxPython classes you can subclass.

Honestly, it's the best GUI builder for wxPython I know of.


From cmpython at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 19:12:41 2009
From: cmpython at gmail.com (Che M)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 16:12:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
References: 
	<20090825132439.d6cb18ca.feliphil@gmx.net> 
	
Message-ID: <3a52c99d-6046-4e58-bed3-65d3e98980bb@r36g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>

> Combined with the comment above about issues with printing, it looks
> like Python for GUI apps isn't a very good idea :-/

I don't have that feeling at all.  I don't have that much of a basis
of comparison, but my experience with wxPython for making GUI apps
has been pretty good.

Does anyone know of a wxPython "gallery" of apps using it?  That'd
be the quickest way to prove its usefulness.

Che



From cmpython at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 19:27:07 2009
From: cmpython at gmail.com (Che M)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 16:27:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
References: 
	<7a9c25c20908240849p283cb70o50f374a4f8c867b@mail.gmail.com> 
	
	<81ac68ae-c7fc-4caa-a04f-f358ffb78864@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 26, 4:47?pm, David C Ullrich  wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 22:22:20 -0700, sturlamolden wrote:
> > On 25 Aug, 05:56, Peter Decker  wrote:
>
> >> I use the Dabo Class Designer to visually design my forms. So what's
> >> you're point? ?:)
>
> > Nothing, except lobbying for wxFormBuilder for anyone who still doesn't
> > know of it. :)
>
> That's great. But do you know of anything I can use as a
> visual form design tool in wxPython?

If in your mind GUI-builder = form builder (or close enough)
there's Boa Constructor (my choice) and wxGlade.


From rurpy at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 26 19:27:33 2009
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 16:27:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: break unichr instead of fix ord?
References: <2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4A95A4D1.9060008@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: 

On 08/26/2009 03:10 PM, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote:
>> >>  In Python 2.5 on Windows I could do [*1]:
>> >>
>> >>    >>>  a = unichr (65600)
>> >>    >>>  a[0],a[1]
>> >>    (u'\ud800', u'\udc40')
> >
> > I can't reproduce that. My copy of Python on Windows gives
> >
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >    File "", line 1, in
> >      unichr(65600)
> > ValueError: unichr() arg not in range(0x10000) (narrow Python build)
> >
> > This is
> >
> > Python 2.5.4 (r254:67916, Dec 23 2008, 15:10:54) [MSC v.1310 32 bit
> > (Intel)] on win32

My apologies for the red herring.  I was working from
a comment in my replacement ord() function.  I dug up
an old copy of Python 2.4.3 and could not reproduce it
there either so I have no explanation for the comment
(which I wrote).  Python 2.3 maybe?

But regardless, the significant question is, what is
the reason for having ord() (and unichr) not work for
surrogate pairs and thus not usable with a large number
of unicode characters that Python otherwise supports?


From rurpy at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 26 19:29:34 2009
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 16:29:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: break unichr instead of fix ord?
References: <2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <5f561ea6-95bb-4ccc-9922-decf4e554331@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 25, 9:53?pm, "Mark Tolonen"  wrote:
>  wrote in message
>
> news:2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99 at v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > In Python 2.5 on Windows I could do [*1]:
>
> > ?# Create a unicode character outside of the BMP.
> > ?>>> a = u'\U00010040'
>
> > ?# On Windows it is represented as a surogate pair.
> > ?>>> len(a)
> > ?2
> > ?>>> a[0],a[1]
> > ?(u'\ud800', u'\udc40')
>
> > ?# Create the same character with the unichr() function.
> > ?>>> a = unichr (65600)
> > ?>>> a[0],a[1]
> > ?(u'\ud800', u'\udc40')
>
> > ?# Although the unichr() function works fine, its
> > ?# inverse, ord(), doesn't.
> > ?>>> ord (a)
> > ?TypeError: ord() expected a character, but string of length 2 found
>
> > On Python 2.6, unichr() was "fixed" (using the word
> > loosely) so that it too now fails with characters outside
> > the BMP.
>
> > ?>>> a = unichr (65600)
> > ?ValueError: unichr() arg not in range(0x10000) (narrow Python build)
>
> > Why was this done rather than changing ord() to accept a
> > surrogate pair?
>
> > Does not this effectively make unichr() and ord() useless
> > on Windows for all but a subset of unicode characters?
>
> Switch to Python 3?
>
> >>> x='\U00010040'
> >>> import unicodedata
> >>> unicodedata.name(x)
>
> 'LINEAR B SYLLABLE B025 A2'>>> ord(x)
> 65600
> >>> hex(ord(x))
> '0x10040'
> >>> unicodedata.name(chr(0x10040))
>
> 'LINEAR B SYLLABLE B025 A2'>>> ord(chr(0x10040))
> 65600
> >>> print(ascii(chr(0x10040)))
>
> '\ud800\udc40'
>
> -Mark

I am still a long way away from moving to Python 3
but I am looking forward to hopefully more rational
unicode handling there.  Thanks for the info.


From rurpy at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 26 19:35:51 2009
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 16:35:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: break unichr instead of fix ord?
References: <2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 26, 2:05?am, Vlastimil Brom  wrote:
>[...]
> Hi,
> I'm not sure about the exact reasons for this behaviour on narrow
> builds either (maybe the consistency of the input/ output data to
> exactly one character?).
>
> However, if I need these functions for higher unicode planes, the
> following rather hackish replacements seem to work. I presume, there
> might be smarter ways of dealing with this, but anyway...
>
> hth,
> ? ?vbr
>
>[...code snipped...]

Thanks, I wrote a replacement ord function nearly identical
to yours but will steal your unichr function if that's ok. :-)

But I still wonder why all this is neccessary.


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 19:40:19 2009
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 18:40:19 -0500
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
In-Reply-To: <843fa78f-da92-4714-bac5-8807bf11e35a@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
References: 	<7a9c25c20908240849p283cb70o50f374a4f8c867b@mail.gmail.com>
		<81ac68ae-c7fc-4caa-a04f-f358ffb78864@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>			
	<843fa78f-da92-4714-bac5-8807bf11e35a@f37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-26 18:08 PM, sturlamolden wrote:
> On 26 Aug, 22:47, David C Ullrich  wrote:
>
>>> Nothing, except lobbying for wxFormBuilder for anyone who still doesn't
>>> know of it. :)
>>
>> That's great. But do you know of anything I can use as a
>> visual form design tool in wxPython?
>
> Right... I don't know if you are trying to be funny, but as I said
> there is wxFormBuilder...
>
> 3.0 generates XRC that you can use with wxPython.
> 3.1 beta generates wxPython classes you can subclass.
>
> Honestly, it's the best GUI builder for wxPython I know of.

It's possible that he is not asking for a visual form designer tool *for* 
building a wxPython app, but one that can be used *inside* a wxPython app like 
an IDE or something similar.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From stef.mientki at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 19:42:47 2009
From: stef.mientki at gmail.com (Stef Mientki)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 01:42:47 +0200
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<20090825132439.d6cb18ca.feliphil@gmx.net>
	
Message-ID: <4A95C877.7020401@gmail.com>

Gilles Ganault wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:24:39 +0200, Wolfgang Keller 
> wrote:
>   
>> The area of _desktop_ database application development indeed looks like a vast and very hostile desert in the Python landscape.
>>
>> The only framework that seems to be worth trying is Dabo. Unfortunately there's little documentation, and that's mostly outdated.
>>
>> There's also Kiwi, but that's even less well documented.
>>
>> And GNU Enterprise essentially seems to be dead.
>>     
>
> Combined with the comment above about issues with printing, it looks
> like Python for GUI apps isn't a very good idea :-/
>
> I'd be interested in checking out commercial applications written in
> Python for the Windows OS, if there are any.
>   
I've been grown up with (and still using) Delphi,
known as having th? best GUI-builder.
I now use wxPython (with GUI-support),
with more comfort and more easy than Delphi !

cheers,
Stef

> Thank you.
>   



From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Wed Aug 26 19:53:28 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 23:53:28 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Zlib: correct checksum but error decompressing
References: <99c381ef-a146-4545-9344-7b15d60441de@y20g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>
	<7xk50qz1a2.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: 

Paul Rubin  writes:

> 
> Andre  gmail.com> writes:
> > I have been trying to solve this issue for a while now. I receive data
> > from a TCP connection which is compressed.
> 
> Are you sure it is compressed with zlib?  If yes, does it include the
> standard zlib header?  Some applications save a few bytes by stripping
> the header.  See the zlib doc page for how to deal with that, there is
> a flag that causes the header check to be skipped on decompression if
> you pass a negative number.  That's the first thing I would try.

Short answer:

Try this:
    zlib.decompress(incoming_data, -15)
If that doesn't work:
    print repr(incoming_data[:30])
    # post the results here

Longer answer:

A zlib stream consists of a deflate stream preceded by
a 2-byte header and followed by a 4-byte Adler32
checksum of the original data.

The problem occurs not out of a desire to save 6 bytes
but through compounding of 2 mistakes:

Mistake (1) is in the HTTP protocol.
See http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec3.html
The "deflate" content coding should have been called "zlib".
Read this and weep:
"""deflate The "zlib" format defined in RFC 1950 [31] in
combination with the "deflate" compression mechanism
described in RFC 1951 [29]."""

Mistake (2) happens when software implementers read only
the first word of the above quote and provide only a
deflate stream.

A reader can handle both possibilities by checking for a
(usual, default) zlib header:

data[0] == '\x78' and (ord(data[1]) + 0x7800) % 31 == 0

HTH,
John






From contact at xavierho.com  Wed Aug 26 20:20:59 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 10:20:59 +1000
Subject: Overriding iadd for dictionary like objects
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908261720i70dd92cds13c0139f25646c70@mail.gmail.com>

I haven't tested it, but did you encounter a problem defining __iadd__ in
the class definition?
See:
http://docs.python.org/reference/datamodel.html#object.__iadd__

Cheers,

Ching-Yun "Xavier" Ho, Technical Artist

Contact Information
Mobile: (+61) 04 3335 4748
Skype ID: SpaXe85
Email: contact at xavierho.com
Website: http://xavierho.com/


On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 8:48 AM, Robert Kern  wrote:

> On 2009-08-26 17:16 PM, RunThePun wrote:
>
>> I'd like to build a database wrapper using DictMixin and allow items
>> to be appended by my own code. The problem is += is always understood
>> as setitem and getitem plainly.
>>
>> d = MyDict()
>> d['a'] = 1
>>
>> # this is the problem code that's I'd like to override. It's always
>> setitem('a', getitem('a') + 3)
>> d['a'] += 3
>> # i wanted to do something like my own 'appenditem' function which for
>> example could be useful if getitem is an expensive operation which can
>> be avoided.
>>
>> I hope that was clear enough of a request, it's really late at night
>> here...
>>
>
> I'm sorry, this is just part of the syntax of Python. You cannot override
> it.
>
> --
> Robert Kern
>
> "I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless
> enigma
>  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it
> had
>  an underlying truth."
>  -- Umberto Eco
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

From vlastimil.brom at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 20:26:28 2009
From: vlastimil.brom at gmail.com (Vlastimil Brom)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 02:26:28 +0200
Subject: break unichr instead of fix ord?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <9fdb569a0908261726t23d19f82pa590b57a4297d662@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/27  :
> On Aug 26, 2:05?am, Vlastimil Brom  wrote:
>>[...]
>>...
>> However, if I need these functions for higher unicode planes, the
>> following rather hackish replacements seem to work. I presume, there
>> might be smarter ways of dealing with this, but anyway...
>>
>> hth,
>> ? ?vbr
>>
>>[...code snipped...]
>
> Thanks, I wrote a replacement ord function nearly identical
> to yours but will steal your unichr function if that's ok. :-)
>
> But I still wonder why all this is neccessary.
> --
You are welcome :-),
but make sure to test it, if you are going to use it for something
more complex; as I said, it's only vaguely tested ...

vbr


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Wed Aug 26 21:00:10 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 03:00:10 +0200
Subject: Overriding iadd for dictionary like objects
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

27-08-2009 o 00:48:33 Robert Kern  wrote:

> On 2009-08-26 17:16 PM, RunThePun wrote:
>> I'd like to build a database wrapper using DictMixin and allow items
>> to be appended by my own code. The problem is += is always understood
>> as setitem and getitem plainly.
>>
>> d = MyDict()
>> d['a'] = 1
>>
>> # this is the problem code that's I'd like to override. It's always
>> setitem('a', getitem('a') + 3)
>> d['a'] += 3
>> # i wanted to do something like my own 'appenditem' function which for
>> example could be useful if getitem is an expensive operation which can
>> be avoided.
>>
>> I hope that was clear enough of a request, it's really late at night
>> here...
>
> I'm sorry, this is just part of the syntax of Python. You cannot  
> override it.

Though
     d['a'] = 3
is equivalent to:
     d.__setitem__('a', 3)

The
     d['a'] += 3
*is not* equivalent to:
     d.__setitem__('a', d.__getitem__('a') + 3)
*but is* equivalent to:
     d.__getitem__('a').__iadd__(3)

Then you can override __getitem__() of MyDict in such a way that it
returns prepared (wrapped) object with overriden __iadd__() as you
want to.

How could I now it:

   1 import collections
   2 import functools
   3 import itertools
   4
   5
   6 def verbose_func(func):
   7     'Function decorator that makes a function "verbose"'
   8
   9     @functools.wraps(func, assigned=('__name__', '__doc__'))
  10     def func_wrapper(*args, **kwargs):
  11         iargs = (map(str, args))
  12         ikwargs = ('{0}={1}'.format(key, value)
  13                    for key, value in kwargs.items())
  14         func_args = ', '.join(itertools.chain(iargs, ikwargs))
  15         print('{0}({1})'.format(func.__name__, func_args))
  16         return func(*args, **kwargs)
  17
  18     return func_wrapper
  19
  20
  21 def verbose_cls(base):
  22     'Class decorator that makes callable attributes "verbose"'
  23
  24     quiet = ('__new__', '__repr__', '__str__')
  25
  26     def cls_wrapper(cls):
  27         for name in vars(base):
  28             attr = getattr(cls, name)
  29             if isinstance(attr, collections.Callable) and name not in  
quiet:
  30                 setattr(cls, name, verbose_func(attr))
  31         return cls
  32
  33     return cls_wrapper
  34
  35
  36 @verbose_cls(dict)
  37 class VerboseDict(dict):
  38     pass
  39
  40
  41 @verbose_cls(int)
  42 class MyInt(int):
  43
  44     @verbose_func
  45     def __iadd__(self, other):
  46         int.__add__(self, other)  # can do something more interesting
  47
  48
  49 if __name__ == '__main__':
  50     d = VerboseDict()
  51
  52     print("d['a'] = 3")
  53     d['a'] = MyInt(3)
  54
  55     print("d['a'] += 3")
  56     d['a'] += MyInt(3)

*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Wed Aug 26 21:01:35 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 26 Aug 2009 18:01:35 -0700
Subject: List iterator thread safety
References: 
Message-ID: 

In article ,
Emanuele D'Arrigo  wrote:
>
>Let's say I have a list accessed by two threads, one removing list
>items via "del myList[index]" statement the other iterating through
>the list and printing out the items via "for item in myList:"
>statement. Am I right to say this -won't- generate exceptions because
>the list iterator is not concerned with the list changing in size
>under its nose? Or are there pitfalls I should be aware of?

Well, I'm not sure about exceptions, but you almost certainly won't get
the results you want.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I support family values -- Addams family values" --www.nancybuttons.com


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Wed Aug 26 21:02:19 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 03:02:19 +0200
Subject: Overriding iadd for dictionary like objects
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

27-08-2009 o 00:48:33 Robert Kern  wrote:

> On 2009-08-26 17:16 PM, RunThePun wrote:
>> I'd like to build a database wrapper using DictMixin and allow items
>> to be appended by my own code. The problem is += is always understood
>> as setitem and getitem plainly.
>>
>> d = MyDict()
>> d['a'] = 1
>>
>> # this is the problem code that's I'd like to override. It's always
>> setitem('a', getitem('a') + 3)
>> d['a'] += 3
>> # i wanted to do something like my own 'appenditem' function which for
>> example could be useful if getitem is an expensive operation which can
>> be avoided.
>>
>> I hope that was clear enough of a request, it's really late at night
>> here...
>
> I'm sorry, this is just part of the syntax of Python. You cannot  
> override it.

Though
       d['a'] = 3
is equivalent to:
       d.__setitem__('a', 3)

The
       d['a'] += 3
*is not* equivalent to:
       d.__setitem__('a', d.__getitem__('a') + 3)
*but is* equivalent to:
       d.__setitem__('a', d.__getitem__('a').__iadd__(3))

Then you can override __getitem__() of MyDict in such a way that it
returns prepared (wrapped) object with overriden __iadd__() as you
want to.

How could I now it:

     1 import collections
     2 import functools
     3 import itertools
     4
     5
     6 def verbose_func(func):
     7     'Function decorator that makes a function "verbose"'
     8
     9     @functools.wraps(func, assigned=('__name__', '__doc__'))
    10     def func_wrapper(*args, **kwargs):
    11         iargs = (map(str, args))
    12         ikwargs = ('{0}={1}'.format(key, value)
    13                    for key, value in kwargs.items())
    14         func_args = ', '.join(itertools.chain(iargs, ikwargs))
    15         print('{0}({1})'.format(func.__name__, func_args))
    16         return func(*args, **kwargs)
    17
    18     return func_wrapper
    19
    20
    21 def verbose_cls(base):
    22     'Class decorator that makes callable attributes "verbose"'
    23
    24     quiet = ('__new__', '__repr__', '__str__')
    25
    26     def cls_wrapper(cls):
    27         for name in vars(base):
    28             attr = getattr(cls, name)
    29             if isinstance(attr, collections.Callable) and name not in
quiet:
    30                 setattr(cls, name, verbose_func(attr))
    31         return cls
    32
    33     return cls_wrapper
    34
    35
    36 @verbose_cls(dict)
    37 class VerboseDict(dict):
    38     pass
    39
    40
    41 @verbose_cls(int)
    42 class MyInt(int):
    43
    44     @verbose_func
    45     def __iadd__(self, other):
    46         int.__add__(self, other)  # can do something more interesting
    47
    48
    49 if __name__ == '__main__':
    50     d = VerboseDict()
    51
    52     print("d['a'] = 3")
    53     d['a'] = MyInt(3)
    54
    55     print("d['a'] += 3")
    56     d['a'] += MyInt(3)

*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Wed Aug 26 21:06:16 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 03:06:16 +0200
Subject: Overriding iadd for dictionary like objects
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

PS. Sorry for sending 2 posts -- the latter is the correct one.

Cheers,
*j


From davea at ieee.org  Wed Aug 26 21:19:37 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 21:19:37 -0400
Subject: [Tutor] Declaration order of classes... why it is important?
In-Reply-To: <1251323517.23132.6.camel@jabbar>
References: <1251303952.20327.46.camel@jabbar>	
	<1c2a2c590908261040r1e70348v8d31d0bf628e7c80@mail.gmail.com>	
	<4A959114.8010703@ieee.org> <1251323517.23132.6.camel@jabbar>
Message-ID: <4A95DF29.5070803@ieee.org>

(Looks like you posted privately to me;  should use Reply-all.  I'm 
copying entire message here so others can add to my comments)

Mac Ryan wrote:
> On Wed, 2009-08-26 at 15:46 -0400, Dave Angel wrote:
>   
>> So define a classmethod to finish the job, and invoke it later
>>
>> class Employee(object):
>>     @classmethod
>>     def finish(cls):
>>         cls.__storm_table__ = "employee"
>>         cls.company_id = []
>>         cls.company = Company.id         #where Company is a forward 
>> reference
>>         del cls.finish      #remove this method so it won't be called a 
>> second time
>>
>> class Company:
>>     id = 42
>>
>> Employee.finish()   #This finishes initializing the class
>>
>>
>> help(Employee)
>> print Employee.company_id
>>     
>
> First things first, thank you Wayne, Kent and Dave for your extensive
> and complementary explanations. As many things in python, what it seemed
> obscure at first now - with your help - seems perfectly obvious.
>
> Second thing: the example that Dave gave me and that I left quoted above
> makes use of decorators, but this is something that I still do not
> understand. I believe I got a grasp of the concept of metaclasses, to
> which the concept of decorator seems to be related, but the official
> documentation is a a bit obscure for me.
>
> I don't want to steal your time asking for an explanation that probably
> is already somewhere out there, but my google searches did not return
> anything useful (I assume I am using the wrong keywords here), so if you
> have a good pointer for me, I would be very grateful. :)
>
> Mac.
>
>
>   
Decorators are syntactic sugar to save typing;  what they accomplish can 
always be done another way, but generally not as readable.

#somebody (eg., Python library) defines a function that takes a function 
as parameter, and returns a function, generally a different one related 
to the first
def  mydecorator(funct):
      ....
      return newfunct


class  myclass(object):
     @mydecorator
      def  mymethod(self, arg1, arg2):
              ...

Instead of the @syntax, we could also have written:

class  myclass(object):
      def mymethod(self, arg1, arg2)
            ....
      mymethod = mydecorator(mymethod)             #this call happens 
when the class is being created


Now there are a couple of decorators that are in the standard library 
that everyone should know about:    classmethod() and staticmethod().  
They wrap a method in a new one (which ends up having the same name), 
such that the first argument is either eaten (staticmethod), or changed 
to a class (classmethod).

Hope that was sufficient detail.

DaveA



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Wed Aug 26 21:34:10 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 27 Aug 2009 01:34:10 GMT
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
References: 
	
	
	
	
	<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com>
	
	
	
	
	<02a31f91$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<44bcb727-0885-4d4f-9c11-ca60a39b0d91@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<02a3e1e2$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<02a53d89$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<8d25833e-8008-42e9-ad24-10ddd4f6cbef@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <02a5d290$0$15633$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 10:58:12 -0700, Mensanator wrote:

>> But I certainly wouldn't call it "binary", for fear of confusion with
>> radix-2 binary.
> 
> That's my point. Since the common usage of "binary" is for Standard
> Positional Number System of Radix 2, it follows that "unary" is the
> common usage for Standard Positional Number System of Radix 1.

Er, no, that doesn't follow. There is no such thing as a radix-1 
positional number system -- it just doesn't work.

In any case, unary is the standard term for what I'm discussing:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unary_numeral_system

although Mathworld doesn't seem to know it.


> That's VERY confusing since such a system is undefined.

Base-1 positional system is defined, it just doesn't work. You would have 
to write a number by the sum of 0*(1**i), which clearly doesn't get you 
very far. Positional unary is only capable of representing zero, and no 
other numbers, which is even less useful than unary, which at least can 
be used for counting positive numbers, addition and subtraction, and even 
has a use in Elias gamma coding.



> Remember, common usage
> does not necessarily properly define things. Saying simply "unary"
> sounds like you're extending common usage beyond its proper boundaries.

You're reasoning by analogy: "binary" means "positional number system 
with radix 2", "decimal" => radix 10, etc, so "unary" => radix 1. That's 
a reasonable heuristic to follow, but it can fail, because even in 
mathematics, names for things don't necessarily follow such patterns 
perfectly. Because the radix 1 positional system can't work and therefore 
doesn't exist, the name "unary" is available, and has been taken to 
describe a number system which counts by tally marks.



-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Wed Aug 26 21:52:27 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 27 Aug 2009 01:52:27 GMT
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
References: 
	
	
	
	
	<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com>
	
	
	
	
	<02a31f91$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<44bcb727-0885-4d4f-9c11-ca60a39b0d91@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<02a3e1e2$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<02a53d89$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<8d25833e-8008-42e9-ad24-10ddd4f6cbef@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<02a5d290$0$15633$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <02a5d6da$0$15633$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 01:34:10 +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 10:58:12 -0700, Mensanator wrote:
> 
>>> But I certainly wouldn't call it "binary", for fear of confusion with
>>> radix-2 binary.
>> 
>> That's my point. Since the common usage of "binary" is for Standard
>> Positional Number System of Radix 2, it follows that "unary" is the
>> common usage for Standard Positional Number System of Radix 1.
> 
> Er, no, that doesn't follow. There is no such thing as a radix-1
> positional number system -- it just doesn't work.

Sorry, this is clumsy writing... of course radix-1 positional number 
system is defined, it's just pointless -- it is only capable of 
representing 0 = 00 = 000 = 0000 ...


-- 
Steven


From max at alcyone.com  Wed Aug 26 21:53:04 2009
From: max at alcyone.com (Erik Max Francis)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 18:53:04 -0700
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
In-Reply-To: <02a5d290$0$15633$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 					<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com>					<02a31f91$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<44bcb727-0885-4d4f-9c11-ca60a39b0d91@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>	<02a3e1e2$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>		<02a53d89$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<8d25833e-8008-42e9-ad24-10ddd4f6cbef@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<02a5d290$0$15633$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 10:58:12 -0700, Mensanator wrote:
> 
>>> But I certainly wouldn't call it "binary", for fear of confusion with
>>> radix-2 binary.
>> That's my point. Since the common usage of "binary" is for Standard
>> Positional Number System of Radix 2, it follows that "unary" is the
>> common usage for Standard Positional Number System of Radix 1.
> 
> Er, no, that doesn't follow. There is no such thing as a radix-1 
> positional number system -- it just doesn't work.
> 
> In any case, unary is the standard term for what I'm discussing:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unary_numeral_system
> 
> although Mathworld doesn't seem to know it.

Psst.  That's a hint.

Googling for "unary number system" ("unary numeral system" just comes up 
with endless mirrors of Wikipedia) gives Wikipedia as hit #1.  Hit #2 is 
  from the Institute of Druidic Technology, another hint.  The remaining 
hits are pretty much people pontificating in discussion groups just as 
they are in this one.

Yes, you can define something that works.  But it's not the usual 
mathematical definition of radix, so if you want to talk about it you 
have to disclaim that it's not a proper base and that's you're making up 
as you go.  But you can't pretend like it's the "obvious" mathematical 
meaning just because the usual mathematical meaning doesn't apply, which 
is what you seem to be doing.

-- 
Erik Max Francis && max at alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
  San Jose, CA, USA && 37 18 N 121 57 W && AIM/Y!M/Skype erikmaxfrancis
   And I've seen the promised land. I may not get there with you.
    -- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.


From graham.dumpleton at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 22:09:49 2009
From: graham.dumpleton at gmail.com (Graham Dumpleton)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 19:09:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python on the Web
References: 
	<4a94ef42$0$27774$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 27, 2:54?am, Phil  wrote:
> Thanks to everybody. I believe I am understanding things better.
>
> I have looked at the links that have been provided, although I have
> seen most of them in the past month or so that I've been looking into
> this stuff. I do agree with most of the things Armin stated in that
> NIH post. I agree with everybody in this thread so far. If I wanted to
> write an application, I would use an existing framework and wait for
> it to be ported to 3.x. However, I do not have the need to write a web
> application at this time, and creating blogs or other applications I
> do not need for fun is getting old.
>
> My reasoning for working on my own instead of following the 'NIH'
> concept or contributing to an existing framework is because I have
> experimented with many existing frameworks and I have figured out what
> I like/dislike, and have envisioned my own design that I feel would
> work potentially better for others, or at least newcomers. Things like
> this are fun for me, and I do not mind the challenge. I don't want to
> pollute the web with (sigh) 'another framework', but it would be fun
> for me to write it and get some feedback. I would love for people like
> you, Armin, and others who take a look at the various frameworks that
> pop up seemingly every day, to look at my (hypothetical) framework and
> just rip it apart with (constructive) criticism. That is just the way
> I do things, whether the community agrees with it or not. The reason I
> was asking about Python 3 on the web was just because I like some of
> the changes that have been made, and would like to use it for my
> framework. That is when I realized that I was absolutely clueless
> about the details of how Python, or any language, works on the web.
>
> Graham, regarding number 3 in your list of ways to host WSGI: I
> haven't really looked into mod_wsgi at all, but basically it sounds
> like the web server would be running this embedded module. That module
> would then serve the function of both FCGI and the 'WSGI Server' in my
> diagram? That actually sounds really neat. Unfortunately I missed this
> because I've been hooked on lighttpd, as the minimalist I am.
>
> Here are the things I am still confused with:
>
> 1) Why do I not want to consider running Python on the web with FCGI,
> without WSGI? You said 'no' straight up, no questions asked. I would
> imagine that there is a good reason of course, as you've been in this
> field for a long time.

Because FASTCGI is a wire protocol for socket communications and not a
programming interface. As such, you would only be creating much more
work for your self as you would need to implement a whole lot of code
to handle the protocol and then still put a usable interface on top of
it. You would also have to come up with what that usable interface
should be as well. WSGI already provides that low level interface.

> I just feel more comfortable understanding why.
> From my understanding, the only real purpose of WSGI is to remain
> independent of FCGI/SCGI/CGI/AJP (whatever that is) and the web server
> it is run on. However, 99.9% of the discussion I see with Python on
> the web is around FCGI.

99.9% of the discussion about Python on the web is not around FASTCGI.
Even if there is quite a bit of discussion, it is because
documentation on hosting Python on FASTCGI via flup is virtually non
existent and so many people have a lot of trouble getting it to work
due to peculiarities of different FASTCGI implementations. The
dicusssion is therefore because people have problems with it, or feel
the need to blog about how they finally got it to work. So, FASTCGI
may be the only way for commodity web hosting, but it certainly isn't
for self managed servers where mod_wsgi, mod_python and mod_proxy type
solutions are going to be preferred. The latter are better documented
or easier to setup and so why you possibly don't see as much
discussion. In other words, people who get things working easily don't
need to ask questions.

> So for example, lets say everybody used FCGI.
> All that would be left to deal with is web server independence. Now
> this is what I don't get, I thought that FCGI itself was supposed to
> be the protocol that deals with web server independence. Maybe I just
> need to re-read entire WSGI specification to understand, along with
> all the details of FCGI. There are just so many details regarding web
> servers, FCGI, and WSGI that it is hard to absorb it all and see how
> it works together. That is why I tried to create the diagram, but it
> doesn't provide enough details. And those are the details I am
> missing. I've been trying to find a simple diagram or explaination of
> the process a request takes to make a response, from HTTP all the way
> up to the application, to the the user.

FASTCGI fills a role, but is not essential. Personally I feel that
whole concept of FASTCGI/SCGI/AJP needs a refresh and modernised with
better hosting support for it.

> 2) In the development stack, the 'WSGI Server' seems to take on the
> role of the web server (dealing with HTTP specification),

It doesn't have to. Some servers may have a clear line between the two
with WSGI being a properly distinct layer on top.

> skips FCGI,
> and deals with the WSGI specification. Then, the 'WSGI Server' in the
> production stack (eg. Flup, CherryPy, etc) only deals with FCGI and
> WSGI specification, because the HTTP is already taken care of by the
> web server?

Graham


From manish.paradkar at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 22:39:21 2009
From: manish.paradkar at gmail.com (manish)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 10:39:21 +0800
Subject: Python Processor
Message-ID: <7670c8130908261939p7ef1726bodbae14d836d33ea5@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,


    Contrary to the ancient and, I believe, obsolete text in the
documentation,
     there is no 'python bytecode'. Dis is based on CPython bytecode.
     Jython uses Java bytecode. IronPython uses, I believe, Microsoft clr
bytecode. Object code compilers do not use bytecode.

         Before going through the one of the existing VM implementations, i
want to know if there is there any informaition
         available which elaborates on the structure of the bytecodes. Like
details regarding co_names, co_cellvars,
         co_freevars, the concept of frames, global, local, objects,
functions etc with respect to the bytecode.

     These are mostly version-specific Cpython implementation details.

     tjr

I agree, i am looking at a version-specific CPython implementation, or can
be PyPy even . I need some information
on the implementation of these interpreters which would help me visualize
how they can be mapped to hardware.

      It probably wouldn't help much.  CPython's performance problems
     come from excessive dictionary lookups, not from instruction decode.

                               John Nagle

This is just for my personal interest so currently i am not looking at
performance - just be able to implement a basic core at first.
The idea is to then extend it and develop a self contained unit of
computation which can be reconfigured on the fly. So given enough
memory and I/Os the same module can behave differently depending on the
script loaded. One can either have a large monolithic cpu
running an OS of some sorts or smaller processors each executing their own
little scripts and communicating with each other.

Manish
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From usenet at enigmacurry.com  Wed Aug 26 22:52:19 2009
From: usenet at enigmacurry.com (Ryan McGuire)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 19:52:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: codecs.open on Win32 -- converting my newlines to CR+LF
Message-ID: <8fbc2c4a-c347-43df-8830-3b4e86d95792@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>

I've got a UTF-8 encoded text file from Linux with standard newlines
("\n").

I'm reading this file on Win32 with Python 2.6:

codecs.open("whatever.txt","r","utf-8").read()

Inexplicably, all the newlines ("\n") are replaced with CR+LF ("\r
\n") ... Why?

As a workaround I'm having to do this:

open("whatever.txt","r").read().decode("utf-8")

which appropriately does not alter my newlines.

What really gets me confused though is the Python docs for
codecs.open:

"Files are always opened in binary mode, even if no binary mode was
specified. This is done to avoid data loss due to encodings using 8-
bit values. This means that no automatic conversion of '\n' is done on
reading and writing."

The way I read that, codecs.open should not touch my newlines. What am
I doing wrong? Is this a bug in Python, or in the docs, or both?


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Wed Aug 26 22:52:41 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 27 Aug 2009 02:52:41 GMT
Subject: break unichr instead of fix ord?
References: <2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4A95A4D1.9060008@v.loewis.de>
	
Message-ID: <02a5e4f7$0$15633$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 16:27:33 -0700, rurpy wrote:

> But regardless, the significant question is, what is the reason for
> having ord() (and unichr) not work for surrogate pairs and thus not
> usable with a large number of unicode characters that Python otherwise
> supports?


I'm no expert on Unicode, but my guess is that the reason is out of a 
desire for simplicity: unichr() should always return a single char, not a 
pair of chars, and similarly ord() should take as input a single char, 
not two, and return a single number.

Otherwise it would be ambiguous whether ord(surrogate_pair) should return 
a pair of ints representing the codes for each item in the pair, or a 
single int representing the code point for the whole pair.

E.g. given your earlier example:

>>> a = u'\U00010040'
>>> len(a)
2
>>> a[0]
u'\ud800'
>>> a[1]
u'\udc40'

would you expect ord(a) to return (0xd800, 0xdc40) or 0x10040? If the 
latter, what about ord(u'ab')?

Remember that a unicode string can contain code points that aren't valid 
characters:

>>> ord(u'\ud800')  # reserved for surrogates, not a character
55296

so if ord() sees a surrogate pair, it can't assume it's meant to be 
treated as a surrogate pair rather than a pair of code points that just 
happens to match a surrogate pair.

None of this means you can't deal with surrogate pairs, it just means you 
can't deal with them using ord() and unichr().

The above is just my guess, I'd be interested to hear what others say.


-- 
Steven


From phily05 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 23:02:55 2009
From: phily05 at gmail.com (Phil)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 20:02:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python on the Web
References: 
	<4a94ef42$0$27774$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	
	
Message-ID: <835a57b2-9a08-4f10-b2d4-78c96f22f3ee@n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

Thanks a lot for another response. I've never posted in groups like
this before but the results are amazing.

I will definitely consider trying mod_wsgi when I get a chance. I like
the approach taken with it. It is unfortunate that I completely missed
all Apache related material because I was using lighttpd. Is there no
mod_wsgi for lighttpd? I guess I could always just Google that myself.

Thanks again for the help.


From philip at semanchuk.com  Wed Aug 26 23:04:31 2009
From: philip at semanchuk.com (Philip Semanchuk)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 23:04:31 -0400
Subject: codecs.open on Win32 -- converting my newlines to CR+LF
In-Reply-To: <8fbc2c4a-c347-43df-8830-3b4e86d95792@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
References: <8fbc2c4a-c347-43df-8830-3b4e86d95792@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2E7FD302-C77A-48DD-B03D-B1959945BBA4@semanchuk.com>


On Aug 26, 2009, at 10:52 PM, Ryan McGuire wrote:

> I've got a UTF-8 encoded text file from Linux with standard newlines
> ("\n").
>
> I'm reading this file on Win32 with Python 2.6:
>
> codecs.open("whatever.txt","r","utf-8").read()
>
> Inexplicably, all the newlines ("\n") are replaced with CR+LF ("\r
> \n") ... Why?

Try using "rb" instead of "r" for the mode in the call to open().

HTH
Philip



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Wed Aug 26 23:27:05 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 27 Aug 2009 03:27:05 GMT
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
References: 
	
	
	
	
	<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com>
	
	
	
	
	<02a31f91$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<44bcb727-0885-4d4f-9c11-ca60a39b0d91@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<02a3e1e2$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<02a53d89$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<8d25833e-8008-42e9-ad24-10ddd4f6cbef@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<02a5d290$0$15633$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <02a5ed07$0$15633$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 18:53:04 -0700, Erik Max Francis wrote:

>> In any case, unary is the standard term for what I'm discussing:
>> 
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unary_numeral_system
>> 
>> although Mathworld doesn't seem to know it.
> 
> Psst.  That's a hint.
> 
> Googling for "unary number system" ("unary numeral system" just comes up
> with endless mirrors of Wikipedia) gives Wikipedia as hit #1.  Hit #2 is
>   from the Institute of Druidic Technology, another hint.  The remaining
> hits are pretty much people pontificating in discussion groups just as
> they are in this one.

Perhaps you should FOLLOW THE REFERENCES from the Wikipedia article, 
instead of relying on Google.

http://www.research.att.com/~njas/sequences/A000042

which in turn points to primary references:

K. G. Kroeber, Mathematik der Palindrome; p. 348; 2003; ISBN 3 499 
615762; Rowohlt Verlag; Germany 
 D. Olivastro, Ancient Puzzles. Bantam Books, NY, 1993, p. 276. 
 Amarnath Murthy, On the divisors of the unary sequence, Smarandache 
Notions Journal Vol. - 11, 2000. 
 Amarnath Murthy and Charles Ashbacher, Generalized Partitions and Some 
New Ideas on Number Theory and Smarandache Sequences, Hexis, Phoenix; USA 
2005. See Section 2.12.



> Yes, you can define something that works.  But it's not the usual
> mathematical definition of radix, 

It's not a radix. I never said it is a radix. Only you and Mensator are 
confusing it with a radix system, which is *your* problem, not mine.


> so if you want to talk about it you
> have to disclaim that it's not a proper base and that's you're making up
> as you go.  But you can't pretend like it's the "obvious" mathematical
> meaning just because the usual mathematical meaning doesn't apply, which
> is what you seem to be doing.

I explicitly gave an example, showing what I meant by unary, because I 
knew it would be unfamiliar terminology for most people. When my example 
was ignored completely, I explained further, and showed that it's fairly 
standard terminology. It is *uncommon* terminology, since most 
mathematicians don't concern themselves with non-positional number 
representations, which is why Goggle doesn't find many references to it 
apart from Wikipedia and copies of Wikipedia.

David Wheeler also discusses "base 1", and describes it as "cheating a 
bit". It's only cheating if you assume you're working with a positional 
radix system, which tallies aren't.

Here's another example, from American Scientist:

https://www.americanscientist.org/issues/pub/third-base/2

although that site seems to be having problems now and you're best off 
with the Google cache:

http://74.125.153.132/search?q=cache:7hlZ33y4uCAJ:https://
www.americanscientist.org/issues/pub/third-base/2+%22base+1%22
+numbers&cd=18&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&ie=UTF-8

[quote]
How do you measure the cost of a numeric representation? If you simply 
count digits, then the biggest base will always win; for example, base 
1,000,000 can represent any number between 0 and decimal 999,999 in a 
single digit. The trouble is, that single digit can be any of a million 
different symbols, all of which you must somehow recognize. At the 
opposite pole are unary, or base-1, numbers. The unary representation of 
decimal 1,000,000 needs only one type of symbol, but that symbol is 
repeated a million times. (Unary notation is in a category apart from 
other bases?it's not really a positional number system?but in the present 
context it serves as a useful limiting case.)
[end quote]



This really isn't anywhere near as controversial as you guys are making 
it. Words sometimes have meanings different from what you expect from 
reasoning by analogy. Get over it.



-- 
Steven


From usenet at enigmacurry.com  Wed Aug 26 23:40:36 2009
From: usenet at enigmacurry.com (Ryan McGuire)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 20:40:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: codecs.open on Win32 -- converting my newlines to CR+LF
References: <8fbc2c4a-c347-43df-8830-3b4e86d95792@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <6085bece-97c6-4400-9571-7cd288da1578@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 26, 11:04?pm, Philip Semanchuk  wrote:
> Try using "rb" instead of "r" for the mode in the call to open().
>
> HTH
> Philip

That does indeed fix the problem, thanks! Still seems like the docs
are wrong though.


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Wed Aug 26 23:58:05 2009
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 22:58:05 -0500
Subject: Overriding iadd for dictionary like objects
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	
	
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-26 20:00 PM, Jan Kaliszewski wrote:
> 27-08-2009 o 00:48:33 Robert Kern  wrote:
>
>> On 2009-08-26 17:16 PM, RunThePun wrote:
>>> I'd like to build a database wrapper using DictMixin and allow items
>>> to be appended by my own code. The problem is += is always understood
>>> as setitem and getitem plainly.
>>>
>>> d = MyDict()
>>> d['a'] = 1
>>>
>>> # this is the problem code that's I'd like to override. It's always
>>> setitem('a', getitem('a') + 3)
>>> d['a'] += 3
>>> # i wanted to do something like my own 'appenditem' function which for
>>> example could be useful if getitem is an expensive operation which can
>>> be avoided.
>>>
>>> I hope that was clear enough of a request, it's really late at night
>>> here...
>>
>> I'm sorry, this is just part of the syntax of Python. You cannot
>> override it.
>
> Though
> d['a'] = 3
> is equivalent to:
> d.__setitem__('a', 3)
>
> The
> d['a'] += 3
> *is not* equivalent to:
> d.__setitem__('a', d.__getitem__('a') + 3)
> *but is* equivalent to:
> d.__getitem__('a').__iadd__(3)
>
> Then you can override __getitem__() of MyDict in such a way that it
> returns prepared (wrapped) object with overriden __iadd__() as you
> want to.

You could, but then you will almost certainly run into problems using the 
wrapped object in places that really expect the true object.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From rylesny at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 00:44:43 2009
From: rylesny at gmail.com (ryles)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 21:44:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Object's nesting scope
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 26, 8:51?am, zaur  wrote:
> Hi folk!
>
> What do you think about idea of "object's nesting scope" in python?
>
> Let's imaging this feature, for example, in this syntax:
>
> obj=:
> ? ? ?
>
> or
>
> :
> ? ?
>
> That's means that result object of  evaluation is used as
> nested scope for  evaluation.
>
> So is this idea useful?
>
> Zaur

FYI, there was recently a similar idea being discussed on the python-
ideas list:

http://groups.google.com/group/python-ideas/browse_thread/thread/1a13cd9a5189b01c?hl=en


From rurpy at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 27 01:36:12 2009
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 22:36:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: break unichr instead of fix ord?
References: <2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4A95A4D1.9060008@v.loewis.de>
	
	<02a5e4f7$0$15633$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <144510f3-3cc4-4b3f-bdcc-98e810d6ee35@2g2000prl.googlegroups.com>

On 08/26/2009 08:52 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 16:27:33 -0700, rurpy wrote:
>
>>  But regardless, the significant question is, what is the reason for
>>  having ord() (and unichr) not work for surrogate pairs and thus not
>>  usable with a large number of unicode characters that Python otherwise
>>  supports?
>
>
> I'm no expert on Unicode, but my guess is that the reason is out of a
> desire for simplicity: unichr() should always return a single char, not a
> pair of chars, and similarly ord() should take as input a single char,
> not two, and return a single number.
>
> Otherwise it would be ambiguous whether ord(surrogate_pair) should return
> a pair of ints representing the codes for each item in the pair, or a
> single int representing the code point for the whole pair.
>
> E.g. given your earlier example:
>
>>>>  a = u'\U00010040'
>>>>  len(a)
> 2
>>>>  a[0]
> u'\ud800'
>>>>  a[1]
> u'\udc40'
>
> would you expect ord(a) to return (0xd800, 0xdc40) or 0x10040?

The latter.

> If the
> latter, what about ord(u'ab')?

I would expect a TypeError* (as ord() currently raises) because
the string length is not 1 and 'ab' is not a surrogate pair.

*Actually I would have expected ValueError but I'm not going
to lose sleep over it.

> Remember that a unicode string can contain code points that aren't valid
> characters:
>
>>>>  ord(u'\ud800')  # reserved for surrogates, not a character
> 55296
>
> so if ord() sees a surrogate pair, it can't assume it's meant to be
> treated as a surrogate pair rather than a pair of code points that just
> happens to match a surrogate pair.

Well, actually, yes it can.  :-)

Python has already made a strong statement that such a pair
the representation of a character:

>>> a = ''.join([u'\ud800',u'\udc40'])
>>> a
u'\U00010040'

That is, Python prints, and treats in nearly all other contexts,
that combination as a character.

This is related to the practicality argument: what is the ratio
of need treat a surrogate pair as character consistent with
with the rest of Python, vs the need to treat it as a string
of two separate (and invalid in the unicode sense?) characters?

And if you want to treat each half of the pair separately
it's not exactly hard:  ord(a[0]), ord(a[1]).

> None of this means you can't deal with surrogate pairs, it just means you
> can't deal with them using ord() and unichr().

Kind of like saying, it doesn't mean you can't deal
with integers larger that 2**32, you just can't multiply
and divide them.

> The above is just my guess, I'd be interested to hear what others say.



From martin at v.loewis.de  Thu Aug 27 01:51:29 2009
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 07:51:29 +0200
Subject: break unichr instead of fix ord?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4A95A4D1.9060008@v.loewis.de>
	
Message-ID: <4A961EE1.9010103@v.loewis.de>

> My apologies for the red herring.  I was working from
> a comment in my replacement ord() function.  I dug up
> an old copy of Python 2.4.3 and could not reproduce it
> there either so I have no explanation for the comment
> (which I wrote).  Python 2.3 maybe?

No. The behavior you observed would only happen on
a wide Unicode build (e.g. on Unix).

> But regardless, the significant question is, what is
> the reason for having ord() (and unichr) not work for
> surrogate pairs and thus not usable with a large number
> of unicode characters that Python otherwise supports?

See PEP 261, http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0261/
It specifies all this.

Regards,
Martin


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Thu Aug 27 02:06:07 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 23:06:07 -0700
Subject: codecs.open on Win32 -- converting my newlines to CR+LF
In-Reply-To: <6085bece-97c6-4400-9571-7cd288da1578@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
References: <8fbc2c4a-c347-43df-8830-3b4e86d95792@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6085bece-97c6-4400-9571-7cd288da1578@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908262306t223cc991o5564bac623d9697a@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 8:40 PM, Ryan McGuire wrote:
> On Aug 26, 11:04?pm, Philip Semanchuk  wrote:
>> Try using "rb" instead of "r" for the mode in the call to open().
>>
>> HTH
>> Philip
>
> That does indeed fix the problem, thanks! Still seems like the docs
> are wrong though.

Yeah, the need to specify "b" does seem rather incongruous:

codecs.open(filename, mode[, encoding[, errors[, buffering]]])
    [...]
    Note: Files are always opened in binary mode, even if no binary
mode was specified. This is done to avoid data loss due to encodings
using 8-bit values. This means that no automatic conversion of b'\n'
is done on reading and writing.

File a bug perhaps?: http://bugs.python.org/

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Thu Aug 27 02:11:22 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 23:11:22 -0700
Subject: codecs.open on Win32 -- converting my newlines to CR+LF
In-Reply-To: <50697b2c0908262306t223cc991o5564bac623d9697a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8fbc2c4a-c347-43df-8830-3b4e86d95792@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	
	<6085bece-97c6-4400-9571-7cd288da1578@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<50697b2c0908262306t223cc991o5564bac623d9697a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908262311w55faa8afh91eef611ca99f6b5@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 11:06 PM, Chris Rebert wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 8:40 PM, Ryan McGuire wrote:
>> On Aug 26, 11:04?pm, Philip Semanchuk  wrote:
>>> Try using "rb" instead of "r" for the mode in the call to open().
>>>
>>> HTH
>>> Philip
>>
>> That does indeed fix the problem, thanks! Still seems like the docs
>> are wrong though.
>
> Yeah, the need to specify "b" does seem rather incongruous:
>
> codecs.open(filename, mode[, encoding[, errors[, buffering]]])
> ? ?[...]
> ? ?Note: Files are always opened in binary mode, even if no binary
> mode was specified. This is done to avoid data loss due to encodings
> using 8-bit values. This means that no automatic conversion of b'\n'
> is done on reading and writing.
>
> File a bug perhaps?: http://bugs.python.org/

Ah, I see you already did: http://bugs.python.org/issue6788

- Chris


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Thu Aug 27 02:38:29 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 08:38:29 +0200
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <200908270838.29673.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Wednesday 26 August 2009 17:14:27 kj wrote:

> As I described at length in another reply, the function in question
> is not intended to be "callable outside the class".  And yes,

I think this might go to nub of your problem - It might help you to think as 
follows: 

A Python class, even after it has been executed, does not really exist except 
as a kind of template or pattern - it is mostly useless until an instance of 
the class is made by calling it with whatever it needs to set up the 
instance.  And once you have an instance, you can do stuff with that 
particular instance.  Before that time, the class is mostly just a promise of 
things to come.



> recursive functions in Python *are* restricted in ways that
> non-recursive functions aren't.  The examples I've posted prove
> this point unambiguously.

Yes and no - mostly no -  your examples just illustrate the point I tried to 
make above.

Pythons object model, and its classes, are different from what you are used 
to.  A bare class is mostly useless without an instance, which is ultimately 
why accessing a function in a class from itself like you are doing, without 
reference to an instance, does not work - the function does not exist yet to 
a degree that it can be referenced.  It is kind of subtle, and different from 
other languages.

8<------------- rant against the way things are -----------------------

Welcome to python, and the newsgroup, by the way.

- Hendrik



From ubershmekel at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 02:49:10 2009
From: ubershmekel at gmail.com (RunThePun)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 23:49:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Overriding iadd for dictionary like objects
References: 
	
	 
	
Message-ID: <21e57363-4e92-41cb-9907-5aef96ad0a6e@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 27, 6:58?am, Robert Kern  wrote:
> On 2009-08-26 20:00 PM, Jan Kaliszewski wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > 27-08-2009 o 00:48:33 Robert Kern  wrote:
>
> >> On 2009-08-26 17:16 PM, RunThePun wrote:
> >>> I'd like to build a database wrapper using DictMixin and allow items
> >>> to be appended by my own code. The problem is += is always understood
> >>> as setitem and getitem plainly.
>
> >>> d = MyDict()
> >>> d['a'] = 1
>
> >>> # this is the problem code that's I'd like to override. It's always
> >>> setitem('a', getitem('a') + 3)
> >>> d['a'] += 3
> >>> # i wanted to do something like my own 'appenditem' function which for
> >>> example could be useful if getitem is an expensive operation which can
> >>> be avoided.
>
> >>> I hope that was clear enough of a request, it's really late at night
> >>> here...
>
> >> I'm sorry, this is just part of the syntax of Python. You cannot
> >> override it.
>
> > Though
> > d['a'] = 3
> > is equivalent to:
> > d.__setitem__('a', 3)
>
> > The
> > d['a'] += 3
> > *is not* equivalent to:
> > d.__setitem__('a', d.__getitem__('a') + 3)
> > *but is* equivalent to:
> > d.__getitem__('a').__iadd__(3)
>
> > Then you can override __getitem__() of MyDict in such a way that it
> > returns prepared (wrapped) object with overriden __iadd__() as you
> > want to.
>
> You could, but then you will almost certainly run into problems using the
> wrapped object in places that really expect the true object.
>
> --
> Robert Kern
>
> "I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
> ? that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
> ? an underlying truth."
> ? ?-- Umberto Eco

Exactly my problem Robert. I'm actually going to be using this dict
for storing and retrieving strings so wrapping str and replacing the
iadd would cause alot of craziness.

Anybody have any more ideas? I think python should/could havev a
syntax for overriding this behaviour, i mean, obviously the complexity
of supporting all operators with the getitem syntax could introduce
alot of clutter. But maybe there's an elegant solution out there...

---RP


From rylesny at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 02:56:49 2009
From: rylesny at gmail.com (ryles)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 23:56:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Q: multiprocessing.Queue size limitations or bug...
References: 
Message-ID: <9a338a3f-33a8-416c-af42-36f596c7cb71@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 26, 4:56?am, Michael Riedel 
wrote:
> Sorry for being not more specific but I'm not absolutely certain whether
> I encountered a bug or did anything wrong:
>
> The (stupid) code below results in a stall forever or not at 'p0.join()'
> depending on the value of TROUBLE_MAKER.
>
> Any help, thoughts, comments?
>
> Thank you for your time.
>
> Michael
>
> # ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> from multiprocessing import Process, Queue
>
> # bit vector size
> BVS=8
>
> #
> TROUBLE_MAKER=12 ?# for greater values p0.join() is never satisfied...
>
> def evaluate(q, id, start=0, stop=2**BVS):
>
> ? ? cmin = {0: []}
>
> ? ? for mask0 in range(start, stop):
> ? ? ? ? for mask1 in range(0, 2**BVS):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? for mask2 in range(mask1, TROUBLE_MAKER):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? cmin[0].append((mask0, mask1, mask2))
>
> ? ? print 'process %d finished (dict layout: %d/%d)...' % (id,
> len(cmin), len(cmin[0]))
> ? ? q.put(cmin.copy())
> ? ? q.close()
>
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>
> ? ? q0 = Queue()
> ? ? q1 = Queue()
> ? ? q2 = Queue()
> ? ? q3 = Queue()
>
> ? ? part = 2**BVS/4
> ? ? p0 = Process(target=evaluate, args=(q0, 0, 0*part, 1*part),
> name='worker_0')
> ? ? p1 = Process(target=evaluate, args=(q1, 1, 1*part, 2*part),
> name='worker_1')
> ? ? p2 = Process(target=evaluate, args=(q2, 2, 2*part, 3*part),
> name='worker_2')
> ? ? p3 = Process(target=evaluate, args=(q3, 3, 3*part, 4*part),
> name='worker_3')
> ? ? p0.start()
> ? ? print 'process 0 started...'
> ? ? p1.start()
> ? ? print 'process 1 started...'
> ? ? p2.start()
> ? ? print 'process 2 started...'
> ? ? p3.start()
> ? ? print 'process 3 started...'
> ? ? # main process stalls at p0.join() for bigger TROUBLE_MAKER
> ? ? p0.join()
> ? ? p1.join()
> ? ? p2.join()
> ? ? p3.join()
> ? ? res0 = q0.get()
> ? ? res1 = q1.get()
> ? ? res2 = q2.get()
> ? ? res3 = q3.get()
> ? ? print 'results fetched...'
>
> # ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> --

There is a warning related to this in the documentation:

http://docs.python.org/library/multiprocessing.html#pipes-and-queues

Basically, you should reverse the order of the get() and join() calls.

multiprocessing does a pretty nice job of abstracting away the low-
level details of IPC, but there are still some gotchas. As you've
noticed, your program will deadlock when there is a large enough
amount of data being put into the queue. This is related to a hidden
thread that exists inside each of your child processes. The thread is
responsible for taking your queue items from an internal buffer and
then writing them into a pipe that your parent process will read from
when get() is called. The pipe mechanism is what allows the two
processes to pass information, and is supported directly by the
Operating System. However, the pipe has a limited capacity, and when
it is full, the writer thread is stuck waiting for the reader to read
enough from the pipe so that it can finish its write. The problem is
that your parent process (reader) is not actually calling get() to
drain the pipe. Instead it's stuck in join() waiting for the writer to
complete.


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Thu Aug 27 03:09:21 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 09:09:21 +0200
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<02a54597$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <200908270909.21886.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Wednesday 26 August 2009 17:45:54 kj wrote:
> In <02a54597$0$20629$c3e8da3 at news.astraweb.com> Steven D'Aprano 
 writes:

> >Why are you defining a method without a self parameter?
>
> Because, as I've explained elsewhere, it is not a method: it's a
> "helper" function, meant to be called only once, within the class
> statement itself.

If the sole purpose of the function is to be used to define what will become a 
constant, why do you not just calculate the constant on your calculator, or 
at the interactive prompt, and assign it to the attribute, and be done with 
it?

Why waste run time recalculating every time the programme is called?

>
> Well, this is not strictly true, because the function is recursive,
> so it will also call itself a few times.  But still, all these
> calls happen (loosely speaking) "within the class statement".

Why *must* it be there? 

>
> In fact the only reason to use a function for such initialization
> work is when one needs recursion; otherwise there's no point in
> defining a function that will only be invoked exactly once.

Seems no point to me even when there is recursion - a number is a number is a 
number.  If you know the arguments when you write it, and if the function is 
known at time of writing, storing a literal is the best solution.

Conversely, if the arguments are not known at time of writing, then they 
should be passed at run time, when an instance is created, and assigned as 
part of the __init__ method.

And the same is true if the function is not known at time of writing - then it 
must be passed to the constructor of the instance.

Storm in a teacup.

- Hendrik


From frank at chagford.com  Thu Aug 27 03:10:02 2009
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 09:10:02 +0200
Subject: Move dictionary from instance to class level
In-Reply-To: <4A955AA5.6000200@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <20090827071016.E9A7F8A3D@ctb-mesg-1-1.saix.net>

Dave Angel wrote: 

> Any time I see multiple lists like that which have to stay in 
> synch, I think code-smell.
> 

I don't think it is that bad, but I agree there is always room for
improvement.

> Why not let the EVT's be passed as strings, and avoid the whole mapping 
> to integers and mapping back detail?  And name the methods involved in a 
> way that you can directly translate the string to the method name?
> 

There is some merit in this. At present I am writing the server and the
client, and copy/paste the list of constants, so they are guaranteed to stay
in sync. (Maybe I should import it instead - even more fool-proof [the fool
being me, of course]).

However, it may happen that I want to open it up to 3rd-party clients in the
future, in which case I would have to publish some sort of API. It would
make more sense to identify the messages by a meaningful name rather than an
integer.

And yes, I could then use 'getattr' to retrieve the corresponding method on
the server side.

> Barring that, make a single "structure" which lists the event 
> names and 
> method names in matched pairs, and derive whatever lists and 
> dictionaries you actually need from that one structure.  And that 
> structure should be shared between client and server code, 
> perhaps as a 
> text file that they both parse.  Or as a stream that's passed 
> from one 
> to the other during startup.  That way, consistency between 
> them can be 
> regulated (with version string in the file, for example)
> 

I'm not sure how that would work. On the client side, I need to respond to a
'button-clicked' event from the gui system by sending an EVT_BUTTON_CLICKED
message to the server. In other words it is hard-coded into the client
program. I don't know how that would work if I read in a list of
message-types at startup.

> DaveA
> 

Thanks for the input - it is always good to have some fresh ideas.

Frank



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Aug 27 03:26:31 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 03:26:31 -0400
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	
	
Message-ID: 

kj wrote:

> I think I understand the answers well enough.  What I *really*
> don't understand is why this particular "feature" of Python (i.e.
> that functions defined within a class statement are forbidden from
> "seeing" other identifiers defined within the class statement) is
> generally considered to be perfectly OK.  IMO it's a bizarre,
> inexplicable blindspot (which, among other things, gives rise to
> a certain worry about what other similar craziness lurks under
> Python's image of rationality).  I have never seen even a half-hearted
> justification, from a language design point of view, for why this
> particular "feature" is worth having.  Maybe some day the BDFL will
> deign to give one.

I attempted to give an explanation in my previous post.



From frank at chagford.com  Thu Aug 27 03:31:01 2009
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 09:31:01 +0200
Subject: [OT] How do I reply to a thread by sending a message to
	python-list@python.org
Message-ID: <20090827073102.293C91DF2@ctb-mesg8.saix.net>

Hi all

I mentioned yesterday that I had a problem sending a message to the
newsgroup via the Outlook Express news reader.

Today I received an email from DaveA, which was sent to me via
python-list at python.org.

I tried simply replying to the email, to see if it behaved better than
Outlook Express. I hit 'Reply to all', so it 'replied' to the sender and
cc'ed to python-list at python.org.

I have just checked in google-groups and my message does appear, in the
correct thread, but not in its correct thread position.

Is there a proper way to do this, or is it better to stick to a news reader
like Outlook Express?

Thanks

Frank Millman

P.S. I am sending this message via email to python-list at python.org - let's
see what happens.



From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Thu Aug 27 03:44:06 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 09:44:06 +0200
Subject: Protecting against callbacks queuing up?
In-Reply-To: <4a9595ca$0$300$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
References: <4a91db65$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
	
	<4a9595ca$0$300$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
Message-ID: <200908270944.06268.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Wednesday 26 August 2009 22:06:01 Esben von Buchwald wrote:

>
> I don't really get it...
>
> I can see that I should put a t.after(...) around the function that does
> the work, when calling it. That delays each call for the given period. I
> just tried it out, the console keeps saying
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>    File "c:\resource\python25\python25.zip\sensorfw.py", line 499, in
> data_cb
>    File "c:\resource\python25\python25.zip\sensorfw.py", line 160, in
> custom_cb
>    File "e:\python\r3s_contextdata.py", line 79, in acc_filter
>      self.acc_callback()
>    File "e:\python\r3s_contextdata.py", line 85, in acc_callback
>      self.doCallback()
>    File "e:\python\r3s_contextdata.py", line 47, in doCallback
>      self.at.after(0.05,self.data_callback)
> RuntimeError: Timer pending - cancel first
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> It seems like i should cancel the current counting timer, when a new
> call comes in - but how to determine when to cancel etc?

Hmm - now I am really starting to fly by the seat of my pants - but it looks 
as if your problem is that your routine is basically being called faster than 
what it can do the processing.

So what I would try is to define a global (you should really acquire a lock, 
but forget that for the moment) So lets call this thing running_calculation.

Then you set this in the routine just before the after call, and reset it just 
before exiting the calculation routine, and if it is set when you get into 
the first routine, then you just exit, without doing the after.   This should 
have the effect of skipping some calls, to make it all manageable.  Then you 
should (hopefully) not have the duplication that it looks to me like you are 
now having.

Bye the way, make the time short - like 1 - it could also be that the time is 
now so long before you start calculating, that you do not have a snowball's 
hope in hell to be finished before the next value comes in.

- Hendrik


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Thu Aug 27 03:47:05 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 09:47:05 +0200
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <200908270947.05723.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Wednesday 26 August 2009 22:47:23 David C Ullrich wrote:

> That's great. But do you know of anything I can use as a
> visual form design tool in wxPython?

Boa Constructor

- Hendrik




From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Thu Aug 27 04:07:46 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 10:07:46 +0200
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: <2a7gm6-9h.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<16b72319-8023-471c-ba40-8025aa6d462e@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<1bf83a7e-f9eb-46ff-84fe-cf42d9608e71@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	
	<2a7gm6-9h.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <4a963ec1$0$20889$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Ulrich Eckhardt a ?crit :
(snip)

> Now, what actually causes problems is that 'fact_rec' is not universally
> accessible until class 'Demo' is fully defined, but you need this in order
> to fully define it. Here comes a drawback of the dynamic nature of Python,
> that the declaration phase (compiling) is not separate from the execution.

It is. You can manually compile a module, remove the source .py and 
still import (or execute) the compiled .pyc.

The "problem" here is not with compilation, but with the fact that 
'class' (and 'def') statements are *executable* statements. IOW, the 
class statement is executed when encountered, that is, usually (most 
class statements being top-level statements), when the module is first 
loaded.


> I fully agree that this case is rather vexing to my (and obviously your)
> biased brain. I wouldn't call this a bug before fully understanding why
> e.g. you can not access a class before its definition is finished.

Nor why it's a GoodThing(tm) for quite a lot of use case - while the 
OP's problem is in the splitting-hairs category - only a problem if yo?u 
insist in imposing your views on the language instead of learning how to 
use it.

> Suggestion: someone mentioned that you should make the function a normal
> function. 
(snip)

Someone (Diez Roggisch IIRC) also mentionned a simple solution that 
mostly fulfills the OP's desires: use a nested function.


From somebody at somewhere.com  Thu Aug 27 04:10:46 2009
From: somebody at somewhere.com (Stephen Fairchild)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 09:10:46 +0100
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References:  
	<02a54597$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: 

kj wrote:

> Because, as I've explained elsewhere, it is not a method: it's a
> "helper" function, meant to be called only once, within the class
> statement itself.

So why didn't you delete it after you were done with it?

Class Demo(object):
    def fact(x):
        ...

    _classvar = fact(5)
    del fact()
-- 
Stephen Fairchild


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Thu Aug 27 04:18:59 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 10:18:59 +0200
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<16b72319-8023-471c-ba40-8025aa6d462e@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<1bf83a7e-f9eb-46ff-84fe-cf42d9608e71@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	
	<2a7gm6-9h.ln1@satorlaser.homedns.org>
	
Message-ID: <4a964162$0$7806$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

kj a ?crit :
(snip)
> 
>> I fully agree that this case is rather vexing to my (and obviously your)
>> biased brain. I wouldn't call this a bug before fully understanding why
>> e.g. you can not access a class before its definition is finished.
> 
> I understand this, what I don't understand is why do it this way.
> I've been trying to understand this particular design point for
> *literally* years.

It's quitye simple: 'class' is an executable statement that creates a 
class object (yes, all this happens at runtime) and bind it in the 
current namespace. So until the class statement is executed, the class 
object doesn't exist and it's name is not bound.

Now if you don't understand why it's a GoodThing(tm) that all this 
happens at runtime, have a look at metaclasses, how they are used in 
most major Python frameworks, and how this allows to vastly reduce the 
amount of needed boring and erreor-prone boilerplate code one cand find 
elsewhere.

>> I think
>> someone mentioned one or two PEPs, which are the design documents that
>> explain Python including the rationale, I'd use that as a starting point.
> 
> I'm reading PEP 227 now, suggested by Steven D'Aprano.  In it I
> find statements like the following alert: 
> 
>     (Note: If a region is contained within a class definition, the
>     name bindings that occur in the class block are not visible to
>     enclosed functions.)
> 
> I've seen this before, but never an explanation for why having this
> restriction. 

You should re-read Carl Bank's answers more carefully then.

> It's just one of life's mysteries.  (Incidentally,
> the fact that the author of PEP 227 felt it necessary to add that
> parenthetical remark suggests that the expectation it warns against
> is not so crazy after all.)

It's not so crazy for someone coming from a more static language. 
Python's object model is indeed a bit peculiar, and it can take some 
times getting the big picture, but be sure it has been carefully 
designed, and is incredibly powerfull once you start understanding the 
whole thing.

> But I'm still not done with PEP 227.  Maybe I'll see the light by
> the time I'm done.

My 2 cents : learn about metaclasses, attributes lookup rules, and the 
descriptor protocol (and some practical applications of these features). 
Then you might decide that the few resulting restrictions are really 
worth the price.



From david.westlund at hp.com  Thu Aug 27 04:19:26 2009
From: david.westlund at hp.com (Westlund, David)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 08:19:26 +0000
Subject: Python on HP-UX
Message-ID: <2A1DB3DEDE43A7479FB4692CB732771A3CB9E9BF44@GVW1086EXB.americas.hpqcorp.net>

Hi

I'm trying to compile Python on an HP-UX v11.23 running on an Itanium. I have tried with both gcc and cc, and python versions 2.5.4, 2.6.2 as well as an SVN checkout. In all cases, alloca.h needs to be included. On most systems I'm guessing it is already included from stdlib.h, but not on HP-UX. The following code in the right header file solves that problem:
#ifdef __hpux
#include 
#endif

My problem is that ctypes keeps seg faulting:

./python -v Lib/ctypes/test/runtests.py
[...]
# Python-2.5.4/Lib/encodings/ascii.pyc matches /Python-2.5.4/Lib/encodings/ascii.py
import encodings.ascii # precompiled from Python-2.5.4/Lib/encodings/ascii.pyc
....Segmentation fault (core dumped)

./python -v ./Lib/ctypes/test/runtests.py
[...]
# Python-2.6.2/Lib/ctypes/test/test_numbers.pyc matches Python-2.6.2/Lib/ctypes/test/test_numbers.py
import ctypes.test.test_numbers # precompiled from Python-2.6.2/Lib/ctypes/test/test_numbers.pyc
....Segmentation fault

Have people managed to get a working ctypes installation on HP-UX?

BR,
David Westlund

From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Thu Aug 27 04:35:51 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 10:35:51 +0200
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	<16b72319-8023-471c-ba40-8025aa6d462e@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
	<1bf83a7e-f9eb-46ff-84fe-cf42d9608e71@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4a964556$0$748$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

kj a ?crit :
> In <1bf83a7e-f9eb-46ff-84fe-cf42d9608e71 at j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> Carl Banks  writes:
> 
>> Yeah, it's a little surprising that you can't access class scope from
>> a function, but that has nothing to do with encapsulation.
> 
> It does: it thwarts encapsulation.  The helper function in my
> example is one that clearly rightfully belongs nowhere else than
> the class itself, i.e. encapsulated within the class.

I don't see what's wrong with having this function at the top-level. 
Sorry to have to say it this way, but IMHO you're border on cargo-cult 
thinking here. Python is an all-object language (ie : everything is an 
object, including functions, classes and modules), but it's by no mean 
'pure-object', and module level functions are perfectly ok (and quite 
often the right thing).

Now if you really want to "encapsulate" the function and the class 
together, you do have simple and and working solutions : using a nested 
recursive function (as explained by Diez), or nesting both the class and 
function in a factory function, ie:

def Demo():
   def fact(n):
     if n < 2:
       return 1
     else:
       return n * fact(n - 1)
   class Demo(object):
     _classvar = fact(5)
   return Demo

Demo = Demo()


But anyway: this is really a WTF. Python's notion of encapsulation is 
very weak (by design), and you're really wasting time trying to fight 
the language instead of learning it. Just put that f... helper function 
at the top level (prefixing it's name with a '_' to mark it as 
implementation detail), and move on to something else !-)

>  It is only
> this silly prohibition against recursive functions in a class
> statement that forces one to put it outside the class statement.

The "prohibition" only happens for recursive functions defined *and* 
called in the class statement. And once you get the big picture, it's 
certainly not "silly".



From davea at ieee.org  Thu Aug 27 04:36:34 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 04:36:34 -0400
Subject: Move dictionary from instance to class level
In-Reply-To: <20090827071016.E9A7F8A3D@ctb-mesg-1-1.saix.net>
References: <20090827071016.E9A7F8A3D@ctb-mesg-1-1.saix.net>
Message-ID: <4A964592.30100@ieee.org>

Frank Millman wrote:
> Dave Angel wrote: 
>
>   
>> Any time I see multiple lists like that which have to stay in 
>> synch, I think code-smell.
>>
>>     
>
> I don't think it is that bad, but I agree there is always room for
> improvement.
>
>   
>> Why not let the EVT's be passed as strings, and avoid the whole mapping 
>> to integers and mapping back detail?  And name the methods involved in a 
>> way that you can directly translate the string to the method name?
>>
>>     
>
> There is some merit in this. At present I am writing the server and the
> client, and copy/paste the list of constants, so they are guaranteed to stay
> in sync. (Maybe I should import it instead - even more fool-proof [the fool
> being me, of course]).
>
> However, it may happen that I want to open it up to 3rd-party clients in the
> future, in which case I would have to publish some sort of API. It would
> make more sense to identify the messages by a meaningful name rather than an
> integer.
>
> And yes, I could then use 'getattr' to retrieve the corresponding method on
> the server side.
>
>   
I've built such pairs of programs (not in Python), and studied the 
tradeoffs of various methods of coupling.  Cut & Paste is probably the 
worst way to do it.  Manual error is easy to creep in, where one copy is 
updated, and somebody neglects to update the other.  It's especially bad 
if the item order matters, as it does for enums and for your xlist() 
example.

Shared code works okay (have a module that both ends import).  But it 
assumes both ends are built and ship and install on a consistent basis.  
Not too hard when it's a single product on a single machine.  But if the 
two ends are on separate machines, especially separated by the Internet, 
you have to deal with version consistency problems.  If there's a time 
shift as well (file format), then you're stuck at that level.  Check the 
version, and either insist on exact match, or have a way to adapt to 
whichever end reports the earlier version.  Make no mistake, there will 
be new versions, and you'll have to deal with it.

Shared data is about the same, but can sometimes be more flexibly 
interpreted.  It also can have the advantage of being able to have 
multiple simultaneous versions on the same machine.  For the Internet 
case, picture a server that has to be able to serve several clients, 
each running different versions.  And it's tougher for corruption 
(accidental or malicious) to do serious damage.  I wouldn't want to do 
an import over the Internet live connection.

Best is if the necessary data is passed between the two ends during 
initialization, and both ends know how to make that data describe the 
protocol they'll use.  That can work as long as there's a notion of a 
session, and preferably if the session is two-way.  In the case of file 
formats, it means you have this data in the header of the file.

Sometimes for bandwidth reasons, you just want to transmit a version 
string, and not the entire table implied by that string.  Just realize 
the increased risks involved.

Probably the easiest way to stay in synch is if each message is 
self-describing.  To me that screams "text" for the id's.  It makes the 
message a bit larger, and you have to decide if it's worth it.  The 
overhead could very well be lost in the noise of packeting, in any 
tcp/ip protocol.

Note that all these have very gray boundaries.  And that underneath it 
all, it's all just data.
>> Barring that, make a single "structure" which lists the event 
>> names and 
>> method names in matched pairs, and derive whatever lists and 
>> dictionaries you actually need from that one structure.  And that 
>> structure should be shared between client and server code, 
>> perhaps as a 
>> text file that they both parse.  Or as a stream that's passed 
>> from one 
>> to the other during startup.  That way, consistency between 
>> them can be 
>> regulated (with version string in the file, for example)
>>
>>     
>
> I'm not sure how that would work. On the client side, I need to respond to a
> 'button-clicked' event from the gui system by sending an EVT_BUTTON_CLICKED
> message to the server. In other words it is hard-coded into the client
> program. I don't know how that would work if I read in a list of
> message-types at startup.
>
>
>   
Show me a sample client event handler, and maybe I can suggest how to 
encode it.  For example in wxPython, events are encoded  with an event 
object.  You could have the event send the object's type-string as an 
event ID.  No lookup at all.  And in fact, one event handler then might 
handle several of the events for a given widget, or even for multiple 
ones.  I guess it's not that simple, since you frequently have to pass 
other information, such as the state of the Ctrl-key, or the mouse 
position on the screen, which is not directly encoded in the event type.
>> DaveA
>>
>>     
>
> Thanks for the input - it is always good to have some fresh ideas.
>
> Frank
>
>
>   



From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Thu Aug 27 04:49:24 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 10:49:24 +0200
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<7figv3F2m3p0dU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	
	
Message-ID: <4a964883$0$18484$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

kj a ?crit :
> In  "Martin P. Hellwig"  writes:
> 
>> kj wrote:
>> 
>>> First, one of the goals of OO is encapsulation, not only at the
>>> level of instances, but also at the level of classes.
>> Who says?
> 
> Python itself: it already offers a limited form of class encapsulation
> (e.g. class variables). 

"class variables" - which FWIW include the "methods" - are just 
attributes of the class *object* (reminder : Python's classes and 
functions *are* objects too). Any name bound at the top level of the 
class statement scope becomes an attribute of the class object. IOW, 
this "limited form of class encapsulation" is just the ordinary "form of 
encapsulation" you'll get with Python objects.


> It would be nice if it went all the way
> and gave classes their own bona fide scope.  (But I hasten to add:
> I *still* don't understand the Python scope model,

I think that what you should first understand are Python's execution and 
object models.


>> Anyway, you could be right (I am not capable to judge it) and Python 
>> should change on this issue but from what I gathered, Pythons OO is 
>> inspired by the following:
>> - Don't repeat yourself
>> - Containing code into logical units makes it easier to understand and 
>> maintain.
> 
> ...except, apparently, when that code is a recursive function, in
> which case one's out of luck.

I wrote quite a few recursive functions in Python and never had any 
problem.

>>> Second, my example shows that Python puts some peculiar restrictions
>>> on recursion.

It's not a restriction on recursion, it's a scoping rule that apply to 
any other name. You can't access the class statement's scope from within 
a function, period.

>>>  Recursion!  One of the central concepts in the theory
>>> of functions!  
>> 
>> It is also one of the best ways to shoot yourself in the foot...
> 
> If recursion is so evil, and Python so intent in saving us from
> shooting ourselves in the foot, why does it allow recursion at all?

Recursion is not evil, and Python doesn't try to prevent anyone from 
doing stupid things anyway. FWIW, do you know that you can add / replace 
/ remove attributes (including methods) at runtime, both on a 
per-instance or per-class basis ? And even dynamically change the class 
of an object ?-)


From jldunn2000 at googlemail.com  Thu Aug 27 04:56:22 2009
From: jldunn2000 at googlemail.com (loial)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 01:56:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Parse xml file
Message-ID: 

Is there a quick way to retrieve data from an xml file in python 2.4,
rather than read the whole file?





From frank at chagford.com  Thu Aug 27 04:56:47 2009
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 10:56:47 +0200
Subject: Move dictionary from instance to class level
In-Reply-To: <4A964592.30100@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <20090827085652.E1339AE22@ctb-mesg-1-3.saix.net>

Dave Angel wrote:
> 
> Show me a sample client event handler, and maybe I can suggest how to 
> encode it.  For example in wxPython, events are encoded  with 
> an event 
> object.  You could have the event send the object's type-string as an 
> event ID.  No lookup at all.  And in fact, one event handler 
> then might 
> handle several of the events for a given widget, or even for multiple 
> ones.  I guess it's not that simple, since you frequently 
> have to pass 
> other information, such as the state of the Ctrl-key, or the mouse 
> position on the screen, which is not directly encoded in the 
> event type.

That is definitely *not* what I want to do.

I want to make the server as generic as possible, so that it can handle any
type of client, hopefully even including a browser eventually. Therefore the
server has no knowledge of wxPython event types.

I have abstracted all the event types I am interested in (the list is fairly
stable now). My protocol requires that the client maps a specific gui event
type to a message identifier, and the server maps the message identifier to
a method that handles the message.

Hope that makes sense.

Frank



From davea at ieee.org  Thu Aug 27 05:04:59 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 05:04:59 -0400
Subject: [OT] How do I reply to a thread by sending a message
	to	python-list@python.org
In-Reply-To: <20090827073102.293C91DF2@ctb-mesg8.saix.net>
References: <20090827073102.293C91DF2@ctb-mesg8.saix.net>
Message-ID: <4A964C3B.8090206@ieee.org>

Frank Millman wrote:
> Hi all
>
> I mentioned yesterday that I had a problem sending a message to the
> newsgroup via the Outlook Express news reader.
>
> Today I received an email from DaveA, which was sent to me via
> python-list at python.org.
>
> I tried simply replying to the email, to see if it behaved better than
> Outlook Express. I hit 'Reply to all', so it 'replied' to the sender and
> cc'ed to python-list at python.org.
>
> I have just checked in google-groups and my message does appear, in the
> correct thread, but not in its correct thread position.
>
> Is there a proper way to do this, or is it better to stick to a news reader
> like Outlook Express?
>
> Thanks
>
> Frank Millman
>
> P.S. I am sending this message via email to python-list at python.org - let's
> see what happens.
>
>
>   
I use Thunderbird, and treat the list as ordinary mail.  I use 
reply-all, and it seems to do the right thing.  Or at least if I'm 
breaking threads, nobody has pointed it out to me yet.

I'm not sure how the list-server decides what thread a particular 
message belongs to.  It's more than just the subject line, since when 
people change the subject, it stays in the same thread.  I'm guessing 
it's somewhere in the boilerplate that's built by a normal mail program 
when it builds a reply message.  And since I don't see threads this way, 
I wouldn't know if I broke things.

I'd love to see an FAQ on how to handle these python.org mailing lists, 
with recommendations on settings to use both when you sign up for the 
list, and within various mail applications.  For example, I see a single 
message containing typically around 10 attachments.  I do the reply-all 
to one of these attachments, and it handles the message body okay, the 
To/CC fields okay, usually adds an extra RE: on the subject (so it 
becomes RE: RE: subject).  But it defaults to the wrong From: address, 
so I have to change that by hand.  I don't have that problem if I reply 
directly to a message, say from my in-box.

The FAQ could also cover conventions and other techniques, such as 
whether to use html or plain-text for messages, how to use ** to mark a 
word as bold, top-posting suggestions....

DaveA



From balamurugan.sekar at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 05:10:55 2009
From: balamurugan.sekar at gmail.com (Balamurugan S)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 14:40:55 +0530
Subject: Parse xml file
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 2:26 PM, loial wrote:
> Is there a quick way to retrieve data from an xml file in python 2.4,
> rather than read the whole file?

Universal Feed parser can do the job for you.
This can be imported and used in your python programs.

For more information,
http://www.feedparser.org/


-- 
Regards,

S.Balamurugan

Free the code, Free the User


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Aug 27 05:14:41 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 27 Aug 2009 09:14:41 GMT
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: <02a63e7d$0$15633$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 08:38:29 +0200, Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:

> On Wednesday 26 August 2009 17:14:27 kj wrote:
> 
>> As I described at length in another reply, the function in question is
>> not intended to be "callable outside the class".  And yes,
> 
> I think this might go to nub of your problem - It might help you to
> think as follows:
> 
> A Python class, even after it has been executed, does not really exist
> except as a kind of template or pattern - it is mostly useless until an
> instance of the class is made by calling it with whatever it needs to
> set up the instance.  And once you have an instance, you can do stuff
> with that particular instance.  Before that time, the class is mostly
> just a promise of things to come.

Oh my! I couldn't disagree more strongly! I think the above is totally 
incorrect.

Classes and types are first class objects, you can treat them like 
anything else in Python. In fact, classes themselves are instances of 
type, so you can say:

>>> class C(object):  # must inherit from object
...     pass
...
>>> issubclass(C, object)
True
>>> isinstance(C, type)
True

Classes are themselves instances of their metaclass. By default, classes 
have a metaclass of type, but you can easily change that. Metaclass 
programming is advanced but very powerful.

Because classes are themselves objects, you can (with a bit of metaclass 
jiggery-pokery) make them do all sorts of interesting things. For 
instance, huge amounts of effort are often put into creating a Singleton 
class, a class that has a single instance. Well, okay... but why not just 
use the class object itself, instead of an instance? There's already one 
of those, and you can't (easily) make a copy of it, and even if you did, 
it would be an independent class. Instead of this:

singleton = SingletonClass(args)
do_something_with(singleton)

just do this:

do_something_with(SingletonClass)

Of course SingletonClass needs to be designed to work that way, which 
will probably need some metaclass magic. It would be interesting to see 
which requires less effort.

When it comes to built-in classes (types), I often use the class object 
itself as an object. E.g. I might do something like this:

def convert(seq):
    t = type(seq)  # remember the original type
    result = process(seq)  # always produces a list
    if t is list:
        return result  # don't bother making a copy of the result
    elif t is str or t is unicode:
        empty = t()
        return empty.join(result)
    else:
        return t(result)  # return the original type


>> recursive functions in Python *are* restricted in ways that
>> non-recursive functions aren't.  The examples I've posted prove this
>> point unambiguously.
> 
> Yes and no - mostly no -  your examples just illustrate the point I
> tried to make above.

Completely no. You may have missed the examples I've given, but the 
problems the Original Poster were having had nothing to do with recursion.


> Pythons object model, and its classes, are different from what you are
> used to.  A bare class is mostly useless without an instance, which is
> ultimately why accessing a function in a class from itself like you are
> doing, without reference to an instance, does not work - the function
> does not exist yet to a degree that it can be referenced.

That is incorrect. What's going on is more subtle.


>>> class Demo:
...     def function(x):
...         print "Calling function with argument %s" % x
...     function(None)
...     function(1)
...     function(function)
...
Calling function with argument None
Calling function with argument 1
Calling function with argument 
>>> Demo




-- 
Steven


From davea at ieee.org  Thu Aug 27 05:24:14 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 05:24:14 -0400
Subject: Move dictionary from instance to class level
In-Reply-To: <20090827085652.E1339AE22@ctb-mesg-1-3.saix.net>
References: <20090827085652.E1339AE22@ctb-mesg-1-3.saix.net>
Message-ID: <4A9650BE.9030909@ieee.org>

Frank Millman wrote:
> Dave Angel wrote:
>   
>> Show me a sample client event handler, and maybe I can suggest how to 
>> encode it.  For example in wxPython, events are encoded  with 
>> an event 
>> object.  You could have the event send the object's type-string as an 
>> event ID.  No lookup at all.  And in fact, one event handler 
>> then might 
>> handle several of the events for a given widget, or even for multiple 
>> ones.  I guess it's not that simple, since you frequently 
>> have to pass 
>> other information, such as the state of the Ctrl-key, or the mouse 
>> position on the screen, which is not directly encoded in the 
>> event type.
>>     
>
> That is definitely *not* what I want to do.
>
> I want to make the server as generic as possible, so that it can handle any
> type of client, hopefully even including a browser eventually. Therefore the
> server has no knowledge of wxPython event types.
>
> I have abstracted all the event types I am interested in (the list is fairly
> stable now). My protocol requires that the client maps a specific gui event
> type to a message identifier, and the server maps the message identifier to
> a method that handles the message.
>
> Hope that makes sense.
>
> Frank
>
>
>   
Yes, it makes sense. Sorry for heading down that particular dead-end.  
But the more I think about it, the more likely I think it is that you'll 
be adding new message types, even if they're just variants of ones 
already defined.  So it might behoove you to have a shared "data 
structure" that describes the whole message, not just equates a name to 
an integer.

Or consider pickling.  I don't know the tradeoffs, but the idea is that 
an object is constructed at the other end that has all the same data 
members as the object you had at this end.  Perhaps with a flexible 
enough class definition, you could represent all or at least several of 
your messages with the same object.

I am curious about your topology.  You're sending events from the client 
(which presumably has a mouse and keyboard) to a server.  But what does 
the server do with those?  Does it have its own screen, or what?


DaveA



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Aug 27 05:31:41 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 27 Aug 2009 09:31:41 GMT
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	<02a54597$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <02a6427a$0$15633$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 09:09:21 +0200, Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:

> On Wednesday 26 August 2009 17:45:54 kj wrote:
>> In <02a54597$0$20629$c3e8da3 at news.astraweb.com> Steven D'Aprano
>  writes:
> 
>> >Why are you defining a method without a self parameter?
>>
>> Because, as I've explained elsewhere, it is not a method: it's a
>> "helper" function, meant to be called only once, within the class
>> statement itself.
> 
> If the sole purpose of the function is to be used to define what will
> become a constant, why do you not just calculate the constant on your
> calculator, or at the interactive prompt, and assign it to the
> attribute, and be done with it?
> 
> Why waste run time recalculating every time the programme is called?

What you are calculating might actually be quite complicated to enter as 
a literal. You might have something like:

class C(object):
    TABLE = []
    for i in xrange(100):
        row = []
        for j in xrange(100):
            row.append((i**3 + 2*i**2 - i*j + 7*j**2 + 9*i*j**2 - j)/3)
        TABLE.append(row)

It's a little hard to type out C.TABLE as a literal.

And even if you could, which would you rather see if you were debugging 
this class? The above, or:

class C(object):
    TABLE = [
        [0.0, 2.0, 8.6666666666666661, 20.0, 36.0, ... ], 
        [1.0, 5.666666666666667, 21.0, 47.0, 83.666666666666671, ...], 
        [5.333333333333333, 12.666666666666666, 36.666666666666664, ...],
        ...
        [... , 3143161.0, 3201497.6666666665, 3260433.0]
        ]


For obvious reasons I haven't typed the whole thing out! And imagine 
trying to check it for typos!

Clearly this is a made-up example, but the principle is sound. If Python 
can calculate values for you, why not let it do so? It is easier for you, 
easier to check that you've calculated them correctly, easier to debug 
and read, it makes the algorithm clearer (fewer "magic constants"). Yes, 
there is a run-time cost, but you only pay it once, when you import the 
module, and it's likely to be not that much more expensive than parsing 
the literals anyway.

Of course, for something as big and complicated as the above table, I'd 
almost certainly put the code to calculate it in a function outside of 
the class, but that's a matter of style, and it will work to put it 
inside the class.



-- 
Steven


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Aug 27 05:47:50 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 05:47:50 -0400
Subject: [OT] How do I reply to a thread by sending a message to
	python-list@python.org
In-Reply-To: <4A964C3B.8090206@ieee.org>
References: <20090827073102.293C91DF2@ctb-mesg8.saix.net>
	<4A964C3B.8090206@ieee.org>
Message-ID: 

Dave Angel wrote:
> Frank Millman wrote:

> I use Thunderbird, and treat the list as ordinary mail.  I use 
> reply-all, and it seems to do the right thing.  Or at least if I'm 
> breaking threads, nobody has pointed it out to me yet.

reply-all may send duplicate messages to the author. Not sure of this list.

I use Thunderbird and access python-list as a newsgroup via 
news.gmane.org as gmane.comp.python.general. About 200 other python 
mailing lists are accessible as g.c.p.xxx.

The first time one posts to a particular mailint list, the post is held 
until one replies to a email sent to the 'from:' address. This cuts spam 
tremendously.  Otherwise, no signup seems to be needed.

tjr



From catalinfest at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 06:20:31 2009
From: catalinfest at gmail.com (catalinfest at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 03:20:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: About diagram and python
Message-ID: <030422b7-a4f8-4ea6-8708-4486da4cf595@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>

Hello!
I see on my Diagram Editor software this :
File -> Export... -> (on  Export option is : PyDia Code
Generation ... .py)
What python is in this file ?
How help me with python code ?
Thank you !


From frank at chagford.com  Thu Aug 27 06:21:10 2009
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 12:21:10 +0200
Subject: Move dictionary from instance to class level
In-Reply-To: <4A9650BE.9030909@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <20090827102111.ABC3B1F93@ctb-mesg4.saix.net>

Dave Angel wrote: 
> 
> Frank Millman wrote:
> >
> > That is definitely *not* what I want to do.
> >
> > I want to make the server as generic as possible, so that 
> it can handle any
> > type of client, hopefully even including a browser 
> eventually. Therefore the
> > server has no knowledge of wxPython event types.
> >
> > I have abstracted all the event types I am interested in 
> (the list is fairly
> > stable now). My protocol requires that the client maps a 
> specific gui event
> > type to a message identifier, and the server maps the 
> message identifier to
> > a method that handles the message.
> >
> > Hope that makes sense.
> >
> > Frank
> >
> >
> >   
> Yes, it makes sense. Sorry for heading down that particular 
> dead-end.  
> But the more I think about it, the more likely I think it is 
> that you'll 
> be adding new message types, even if they're just variants of ones 
> already defined.  So it might behoove you to have a shared "data 
> structure" that describes the whole message, not just equates 
> a name to 
> an integer.
> 
> Or consider pickling.  I don't know the tradeoffs, but the 
> idea is that 
> an object is constructed at the other end that has all the same data 
> members as the object you had at this end.  Perhaps with a flexible 
> enough class definition, you could represent all or at least 
> several of 
> your messages with the same object.
> 
> I am curious about your topology.  You're sending events from 
> the client 
> (which presumably has a mouse and keyboard) to a server.  But 
> what does 
> the server do with those?  Does it have its own screen, or what?
> 

I'll try to explain.

I am writing a fairly standard business/accounting application. (I am now
adding Business Process Management to it, which is complicating matters, but
that is another story.)

Most of the gui stuff is basic forms processing - screens with static data,
text fields for display and input of data, and buttons for signifying
certain actions to be taken.

My original attempt had both the gui and the business logic running on the
client, with a connection to a database running on a server. It worked, but
then I realised it was very insecure - it would be easy to hack the python
code, bypass the business logic, and allow any update to the database.

So my second attempt took all the business logic out of the client and put
it onto the server. To execute a form, the server builds a form definition
by creating objects to represent each of the widgets, creates a list of the
components with sufficient information for the client to render them , then
sends a json'd copy of the list to the client, which interprets it and
displays the required form. The client informs the server of each event, and
the server handles the event in much the same way as it did before when the
business logic was on the client.

For example, clicking a button triggers a response which could involve
updating the database, displaying another window with additional data, etc,
etc. Previously there would have been a method on the client designed to
handle the response, and the method would be added to the button constructor
so that it would be called when the button was clicked.

Now the method is on the server, and is stored as an attribute of the button
object on the server. When the user clicks the button, the message is passed
up to the server (each widget has its own id, which is part of the message),
the server is notified that the button was clicked, and it calls the
associated method.

There is a lot more to it than that, but hopefully that will give you an
idea.

If I ever get this to a workable state (it is taking far longer than I
anticipated) I will release it as open source, and will then welcome as much
feedback as possible.

Frank



From contact at xavierho.com  Thu Aug 27 06:26:19 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 20:26:19 +1000
Subject: [OT] How do I reply to a thread by sending a message to 
	python-list@python.org
In-Reply-To: <4A964C3B.8090206@ieee.org>
References: <20090827073102.293C91DF2@ctb-mesg8.saix.net>
	<4A964C3B.8090206@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908270326p58adda54w306eb823710bb952@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 7:04 PM, Dave Angel  wrote:

> I'm not sure how the list-server decides what thread a particular message
> belongs to.  It's more than just the subject line, since when people change
> the subject, it stays in the same thread.
>

I'm just using gmail because it saves me the trouble of reconfiguring the
mail server every time I use a new computer (which I do at uni quite a lot).
When someone changes the Subject with (was: XXX), it opens as a new "thread"
on gmail. also, when someone puts "Re:" in the subject it also puts it on a
new thread. The magical thing about gmail is that it seems to ingnore the
first "Re:" on the subject line, and make them the same thread. I rarely
have threading issues, but occasionally I do see "Re:" messages in a
separate place, maybe once a month.

I'd love to see an FAQ on how to handle these python.org mailing lists, with
> recommendations on settings to use both when you sign up for the list, and
> within various mail applications.


Google found me these:
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/faq.html
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/docs.html

Maybe they're helpful, since that's what the python-list uses. I've only
scanned for a bit and it seems comprehensive.


> For example, I see a single message containing typically around 10
> attachments.  I do the reply-all to one of these attachments, and it handles
> the message body okay, the To/CC fields okay,


What do you mean 10 attachments? O_o. I know some people like to attach a
company logo in their signature. (The Aussie DLF list people do that heaps.
Although some people post a hand-written sig in the attachment ... I'm not
sure how smart that is, but I've seen it done.) Where are you getting these
"attachments"?

I haven't tried reply-all yet. May give that a try next time and see what
pops up in the To: address.


> usually adds an extra RE: on the subject (so it becomes RE: RE: subject).


Gmail doesn't do that. Yay! (Re: is dumb anyway, and you can't prepend Re:
forever. Fwd: is reasonable.)


> But it defaults to the wrong From: address, so I have to change that by
> hand.  I don't have that problem if I reply directly to a message, say from
> my in-box.


Weird. I have a different problem: the "To:" Address is usually the sender
I'm replying to. It's really annoying, because I always have to hand-change
the To: address to python-list.

I've sent two messages onto the list mentioning about adding a "Reply-to"
attribute by the mailing list server, which would fix this problem. To-date
everyone has seemed to ignore me. =/


> The FAQ could also cover conventions and other techniques, such as whether
> to use html or plain-text for messages, how to use ** to mark a word as
> bold, top-posting suggestions....


 I didn't know ** marks bold. Does __ mark underline? Those are cool things
I never hear about. Thanks!

On another tangent, I only found out the Python Wiki on the official site
today (http://wiki.python.org/moin/) Does anyone actually use it, and what
for?

-

Kind regards,

Ching-Yun "Xavier" Ho, Technical Artist

Contact Information
Mobile: (+61) 04 3335 4748
Skype ID: SpaXe85
Email: contact at xavierho.com
Website: http://xavierho.com/
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From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Aug 27 06:46:57 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 27 Aug 2009 10:46:57 GMT
Subject: About diagram and python
References: <030422b7-a4f8-4ea6-8708-4486da4cf595@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <02a6541d$0$15633$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 03:20:31 -0700, catalinfest at gmail.com wrote:

> Hello!
> I see on my Diagram Editor software this : File -> Export... -> (on 
> Export option is : PyDia Code Generation ... .py)
> What python is in this file ?

Why don't you look for yourself? Just open the file in a text editor and 
read it.


-- 
Steven


From greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz  Thu Aug 27 06:50:41 2009
From: greg at cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (greg)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:50:41 +1200
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: <7fn6n4F2m1582U1@mid.individual.net>

kj wrote:

> No, the fact() function here represents an internal "helper"
> function.  It is meant to be called only once to help initialize
> a class variable that would be inconvenient to initialize otherwise;
> this helper function is not meant to be called from outside the
> class statement.

That, to me, is an excellent indication that the function
does *not* belong inside the class!

The only things that belong inside the class are things
that users of the class will need to use, or that instances
of the class will need to do their job.

Your helper function belongs outside the class, in the
module where the class is defined.

-- 
Greg


From IDOL at il.ibm.com  Thu Aug 27 06:57:49 2009
From: IDOL at il.ibm.com (Ido Levy)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 13:57:49 +0300
Subject: pygtk - What is the best way to change the mouse pointer
In-Reply-To: <4A959521.8020505@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: 
	<4A959521.8020505@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: 

> From:
> 
> MRAB 
> 
> To:
> 
> python-list at python.org
> 
> Date:
> 
> 26/08/2009 11:04 PM
> 
> Subject:
> 
> Re: pygtk - What is the best way to change the mouse pointer
> 
> Ido Levy wrote:
> > Hello All,
> > 
> > I am writing a dialog which one of its widget is a gtk.ComboBoxEntry ( 

> > let's assume widget in the example below is its instance )
> > When the user select one of the values from the gtk.ComboBoxEntry I 
need 
> > to run some calculations that takes a few seconds.
> > In order to reflect calculation time to the user I want to switch the 
> > mouse pointer to an hour glass and back to arrow what it finish the 
> > calculation.
> > 
> > I use the following code but it doesn't seems to work in a 
deterministic 
> > way. From time to time it skips the last line and keep the mouse 
pointer 
> > as an hour glass.
> > 
> >         watch = gtk.gdk.Cursor(gtk.gdk.WATCH)
> >         widget.window.set_cursor(watch)
> > 
> >         calculation code
> > 
> >         widget.window.set_cursor(None)
> > 
> > I would appreciate your advice on the right way to implement this.
> > 
> Could the calculation code be raising an exception? Try adding some
> logging to see whether the last lien is actually being called. You could
> also use a try...finally... block to ensure that the last line is
> called:
> 
>      watch = gtk.gdk.Cursor(gtk.gdk.WATCH)
>      widget.window.set_cursor(watch)
>      try:
>          calculation code
>      finally:
>          widget.window.set_cursor(None)
> 

Thank you for your input.

I used logging and it seems that the last line is called.
I also used try...finally... block but it didn't solve the issue.

Then I have noticed that the line before the last one is widget.connect() 
I insert time.sleep() in between the lines and it seems to solve the 
issue.

I assume it's not suppose to work this way but it can be considered as a 
workaround 
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From graham.dumpleton at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 07:01:05 2009
From: graham.dumpleton at gmail.com (Graham Dumpleton)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 04:01:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python on the Web
References: 
	<4a94ef42$0$27774$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	
	 
	<835a57b2-9a08-4f10-b2d4-78c96f22f3ee@n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <77a1add8-3b36-4b69-b21e-a7a496c30205@l35g2000pra.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 27, 1:02?pm, Phil  wrote:
> Thanks a lot for another response. I've never posted in groups like
> this before but the results are amazing.
>
> I will definitely consider trying mod_wsgi when I get a chance. I like
> the approach taken with it. It is unfortunate that I completely missed
> all Apache related material because I was using lighttpd. Is there no
> mod_wsgi for lighttpd? I guess I could always just Google that myself.

There is no mod_wsgi for lighttpd and suggest there never will be.
WSGI doesn't lend itself to working on top of an event driven system.
Someone did get a mod_wsgi going on nginx, which is also event driven,
but it has limitations due to possibility of blocking other traffic to
web server. See:

  http://blog.dscpl.com.au/2009/05/blocking-requests-and-nginx-version-of.html

Graham


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Thu Aug 27 07:17:32 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 13:17:32 +0200
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 		
	
Message-ID: <4A966B4C.7030307@sequans.com>

Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
> Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
>   
>> Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:
>>     
>>> class Color:
>>>     def __init__(self, r, g,b):
>>>           pass
>>>     BLACK = Color(0,0,0)
>>>
>>> It make sens from a design point of view to put BLACK in the Color
>>> namespace. But I don't think it's possible with python.
>>>       
>> class Color:
>>     ...
>>
>> setattrib(Color, "BLACK", Color(0,0,0))
>>     
>
> Apart from it being "setattr" and not "setattrib", a simple
>
>   Color.BLACK = Color(0,0,0)
>
>   

Obviously ... I'll remember that.

JM


From jeanmichel at sequans.com  Thu Aug 27 07:45:00 2009
From: jeanmichel at sequans.com (Jean-Michel Pichavant)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 13:45:00 +0200
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	
	
Message-ID: <4A9671BC.7030600@sequans.com>

kj wrote:
> I think I understand the answers well enough.  What I *really*
> don't understand is why this particular "feature" of Python (i.e.
> that functions defined within a class statement are forbidden from
> "seeing" other identifiers defined within the class statement) is
> generally considered to be perfectly OK.  IMO it's a bizarre,
> inexplicable blindspot (which, among other things, gives rise to
> a certain worry about what other similar craziness lurks under
> Python's image of rationality).  I have never seen even a half-hearted
> justification, from a language design point of view, for why this
> particular "feature" is worth having.  Maybe some day the BDFL will
> deign to give one.
>
> kynn
>   

I think I got your point.
I guess many people may not be receptive to your question, cause guess 
what, we're all python fans :o)

in foo.py:

a = 5
b = a # works fine

class A:
    c = 5
    d = c # broken
    d = A.c # broken either
   
    def foo(self):
       e = 5
       f = e  #works fine


We should all acknowledge that any newcomer to python will not expect 
such behavior. There are plenty of good answers to that thread 
explaining why the fact that classes are not scopes is much better. 
Still this design fails at one point : insight.
It may be solved by creating the class upon the "class" statement. If 
the class A object is created, then c is added as a property of that 
object, there's no problem accession one object property with A.c.

JM


From manu3d at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 08:03:07 2009
From: manu3d at gmail.com (Emanuele D'Arrigo)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 05:03:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: List iterator thread safety
References: 
	
Message-ID: <14e1469e-bcfe-4922-b135-3f0bd7e17a42@r42g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 27, 2:01?am, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
> Well, I'm not sure about exceptions, but you almost certainly won't get
> the results you want.

What I'd like in this context is to iterate through the items in the
list without processing the same item twice and without skipping item
that are in front of the current iterator position. Somehow I can't
quite prove to myself if this is possible or not over multiple
threads. I.e. a dictionary will throw an exception about the object
changing size while iterating through it. A list doesn't, hence the
question.

Manu



From no.email at please.post  Thu Aug 27 08:09:44 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 12:09:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 	
	
	
Message-ID: 

In  Jean-Michel Pichavant  writes:

>kj wrote:
>> I think I understand the answers well enough.  What I *really*
>> don't understand is why this particular "feature" of Python (i.e.
>> that functions defined within a class statement are forbidden from
>> "seeing" other identifiers defined within the class statement) is
>> generally considered to be perfectly OK.  IMO it's a bizarre,
>> inexplicable blindspot (which, among other things, gives rise to
>> a certain worry about what other similar craziness lurks under
>> Python's image of rationality).  I have never seen even a half-hearted
>> justification, from a language design point of view, for why this
>> particular "feature" is worth having.  Maybe some day the BDFL will
>> deign to give one.
>>
>> kynn
>>   

>I think I got your point.
>I guess many people may not be receptive to your question, cause guess 
>what, we're all python fans :o)

>in foo.py:

>a = 5
>b = a # works fine

>class A:
>    c = 5
>    d = c # broken
>    d = A.c # broken either
>   
>    def foo(self):
>       e = 5
>       f = e  #works fine


>We should all acknowledge that any newcomer to python will not expect 
>such behavior. There are plenty of good answers to that thread 
>explaining why the fact that classes are not scopes is much better. 
>Still this design fails at one point : insight.
>It may be solved by creating the class upon the "class" statement. If 
>the class A object is created, then c is added as a property of that 
>object, there's no problem accession one object property with A.c.


Thanks!  I was beginning to think I'd gone crazy.

kynn



From jvpic at free.fr  Thu Aug 27 08:13:21 2009
From: jvpic at free.fr (jvpic)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 14:13:21 +0200
Subject: Learning Python advanced features
Message-ID: <4a967864$0$15193$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Hi,

Learning Python, I understand the mechanism of : closure, __new__, 
descriptors, decorators and __metaclass__, but I interrogate myself on 
the interest of those technics ?

May somebody explain me the interest ?

Many thanks !

Jackes Bihan


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Thu Aug 27 08:17:15 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 27 Aug 2009 12:17:15 GMT
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: <02a66947$0$15633$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 13:45:00 +0200, Jean-Michel Pichavant wrote:

> in foo.py:
> 
> a = 5
> b = a # works fine
> 
> class A:
>     c = 5
>     d = c # broken

Incorrect. That works fine.

>>> class A:
...     c = 5
...     d = c # not actually broken
...
>>> A.c
5
>>> A.d
5

The class is a scope, and inside the class scope, you can access local 
names. What you can't do is access the class scope from inside nested 
functions.



-- 
Steven


From no.email at please.post  Thu Aug 27 08:20:13 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 12:20:13 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 	
	
	
Message-ID: 

In  Jean-Michel Pichavant  writes:

>in foo.py:

>a = 5
>b = a # works fine

>   
>    def foo(self):
>       e = 5
>       f = e  #works fine

>It may be solved by creating the class upon the "class" statement. If 
>the class A object is created, then c is added as a property of that 
>object, there's no problem accession one object property with A.c.

I thought one could implement something like

class A:
    c = 5
    d = __thisclass__.c

But apparently this is a *huge* deal.  I'm not sure if the reason
it is a huge deal is that it is technically difficult to implement,
or that there is an implicit "lie" in having something (__thisclass__)
standing for something else that doesn't yet exist (and the potential
errors that may arise from this "lie" in sufficiently unfortunate
code).  Or maybe something else beyond my noobish ken altogether.

kynn


From no.email at please.post  Thu Aug 27 08:21:38 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 12:21:38 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	<02a54597$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
	<02a6427a$0$15633$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

In <02a6427a$0$15633$c3e8da3 at news.astraweb.com> Steven D'Aprano  writes:

>On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 09:09:21 +0200, Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:

>> On Wednesday 26 August 2009 17:45:54 kj wrote:
>>> In <02a54597$0$20629$c3e8da3 at news.astraweb.com> Steven D'Aprano
>>  writes:
>> 
>>> >Why are you defining a method without a self parameter?
>>>
>>> Because, as I've explained elsewhere, it is not a method: it's a
>>> "helper" function, meant to be called only once, within the class
>>> statement itself.
>> 
>> If the sole purpose of the function is to be used to define what will
>> become a constant, why do you not just calculate the constant on your
>> calculator, or at the interactive prompt, and assign it to the
>> attribute, and be done with it?
>> 
>> Why waste run time recalculating every time the programme is called?

>What you are calculating might actually be quite complicated to enter as 
>a literal.

Thank you!

kynn


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Thu Aug 27 08:25:36 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 14:25:36 +0200
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 		
	
Message-ID: <4a967b2f$0$19301$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Jean-Michel Pichavant a ?crit :
> kj wrote:
>> I think I understand the answers well enough.  What I *really*
>> don't understand is why this particular "feature" of Python (i.e.
>> that functions defined within a class statement are forbidden from
>> "seeing" other identifiers defined within the class statement) is
>> generally considered to be perfectly OK.  IMO it's a bizarre,
>> inexplicable blindspot (which, among other things, gives rise to
>> a certain worry about what other similar craziness lurks under
>> Python's image of rationality).  I have never seen even a half-hearted
>> justification, from a language design point of view, for why this
>> particular "feature" is worth having.  Maybe some day the BDFL will
>> deign to give one.
>>
>> kynn
>>   
> 
> I think I got your point.
> I guess many people may not be receptive to your question, cause guess 
> what, we're all python fans :o)
> 
> in foo.py:
> 
> a = 5
> b = a # works fine
> 
> class A:
>    c = 5
>    d = c # broken

Err... Did you actually tried this ?


 >>> class A:
...     c = 5
...     d = c
...
 >>> A.c
5
 >>> A.d
5
 >>>


>    d = A.c # broken either

Not "broken" : the class doesn't yet exists, nor is it bound to global 
name 'A'. FWIW, *this* works (for some definitions of 'works') juts fine:

 >>> class Foo(object):
...     c = 42
...
 >>> A = Foo()
 >>> class A(object):
...     d = A.c
...
 >>> A.d
42



> 
> We should all acknowledge that any newcomer to python will not expect 
> such behavior.

Any newcomer to any language should aknowledge that her expectations 
based on previous experience with any other language should be kept 
aside or just plain abandoned, and start by learning the new language.

The only thing one is entitled to expect when learning a new language is 
that the language's implementation follows the language specs.

> There are plenty of good answers to that thread 
> explaining why the fact that classes are not scopes is much better. 
> Still this design fails at one point : insight.

Oh, really ?

> It may be solved by creating the class upon the "class" statement. If 
> the class A object is created, then c is added as a property of that 
> object, there's no problem accession one object property with A.c.

Please, write a pep...


From robin at reportlab.com  Thu Aug 27 08:26:47 2009
From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 13:26:47 +0100
Subject: ubuntu dist-packages
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <4A967B87.9040100@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>

Florian Diesch wrote:
.........
> 
>>From /usr/lib/python2.6/site.py:
> 
> ,----
> | For Debian and derivatives, this sys.path is augmented with directories
> | for packages distributed within the distribution. Local addons go
> | into /usr/local/lib/python/dist-packages, Debian addons
> | install into /usr/{lib,share}/python/dist-packages.
> | /usr/lib/python/site-packages is not used.
> `----

the above is not present in my windows documentation (or indeed site.py) at all 
so it seems they just decided to change the name. Anyone trying to debug why 
their distutils or setuptools or whichever python packager is going wrong will 
have yet another detail to remember. In addition, as any one who has done such 
trivial changes will already know, they forgot to do it globally eg my 0.4.1.0 
version of the "Debian Python Policy" document explicitly mentions site-packages.
-- 
Robin Becker


From robin at reportlab.com  Thu Aug 27 08:26:47 2009
From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 13:26:47 +0100
Subject: ubuntu dist-packages
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <4A967B87.9040100@chamonix.reportlab.co.uk>

Florian Diesch wrote:
.........
> 
>>From /usr/lib/python2.6/site.py:
> 
> ,----
> | For Debian and derivatives, this sys.path is augmented with directories
> | for packages distributed within the distribution. Local addons go
> | into /usr/local/lib/python/dist-packages, Debian addons
> | install into /usr/{lib,share}/python/dist-packages.
> | /usr/lib/python/site-packages is not used.
> `----

the above is not present in my windows documentation (or indeed site.py) at all 
so it seems they just decided to change the name. Anyone trying to debug why 
their distutils or setuptools or whichever python packager is going wrong will 
have yet another detail to remember. In addition, as any one who has done such 
trivial changes will already know, they forgot to do it globally eg my 0.4.1.0 
version of the "Debian Python Policy" document explicitly mentions site-packages.
-- 
Robin Becker



From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Thu Aug 27 08:28:24 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 14:28:24 +0200
Subject: Learning Python advanced features
In-Reply-To: <4a967864$0$15193$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4a967864$0$15193$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4a967bd6$0$19301$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

jvpic a ?crit :
> Hi,
> 
> Learning Python, I understand the mechanism of : closure, __new__, 
> descriptors, decorators and __metaclass__, but I interrogate myself on 
> the interest of those technics ?
> 
> May somebody explain me the interest ?

Didn't like my answers on f.c.l.py ?-)


From luismgz at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 08:31:30 2009
From: luismgz at gmail.com (Neuruss)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 05:31:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
References: 
	<7f519c34-2d6e-4fff-9489-dae43c6b2df1@r42g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6b961048-782a-428c-9c0a-4fb17e87b57f@s13g2000yql.googlegroups.com>

On 26 ago, 05:29, erikj  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> You could have a look at Camelot, to see if it fits
> your needs :http://www.conceptive.be/projects/camelot/
>
> it was developed with cross platform business apps in
> mind. ?when developing Camelot, we tried to build it using
> wxWidgets first (because of the licensing at that time),
> but it turned out that developing with QT proved to be
> much more straightforward. ?QT is documented very well
> and you seldom encounter 'strange' issues that cost hours
> of time to pinpoint and fix.
>
> the datagrid was developed to be able to handle millions
> of database records without glitches and is flexible thanks
> to QT's model-view-delegate framework.
>
> we do print barcodes with this app (even directly to
> zebra printers)
>
> if you have questions regarding Camelot, please feel free
> to post on our mailing list :http://groups.google.com/group/project-camelot
>
> Regards,
>
> Erik
>
> On Aug 24, 2:08?pm, Gilles Ganault  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hello
>
> > ? ? ? ? I was wondering if some people in this ng use Python and someGUI
> > toolkit (PyWin32, wxWidgets, QT, etc.) to build professional
> > applications, and if yes, what it's like, the pros and cons, etc.
>
> > I'm especially concerned about the lack of controls, the lack of
> > updates (lots of controls in wxWidgets are 1.0 deadware), and problems
> > linked to how to update users' PC remotely when I build a new version
> > using eg. Py2exe.
>
> > I need controls for business apps like access to databases, good data
> > grid, printing reports (with or without barcodes), etc.
>
> > Thank you.

Looks interesting, but I wonder if I can use Camelot without its ORM.
I feel that ORMs make easy things easier, but complex things much
harder...
Can I use it with plain old sql?

Luis


From __peter__ at web.de  Thu Aug 27 08:41:07 2009
From: __peter__ at web.de (Peter Otten)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 14:41:07 +0200
Subject: List iterator thread safety
References: 
	
	<14e1469e-bcfe-4922-b135-3f0bd7e17a42@r42g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Emanuele D'Arrigo wrote:

> On Aug 27, 2:01 am, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
>> Well, I'm not sure about exceptions, but you almost certainly won't get
>> the results you want.
> 
> What I'd like in this context is to iterate through the items in the
> list without processing the same item twice and without skipping item
> that are in front of the current iterator position. Somehow I can't
> quite prove to myself if this is possible or not over multiple
> threads. I.e. a dictionary will throw an exception about the object
> changing size while iterating through it. A list doesn't, hence the
> question.

This is not even possible in a single thread:

>>> items = [1, 2, 3]
>>> for i in items:
...     print i
...     if 1 in items: items.remove(1)
...
1
3

Basically a list iterator is just a list reference and an index into that 
list. No effort is made to keep track of added or removed items.

Peter



From dmhouse at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 08:41:08 2009
From: dmhouse at gmail.com (David House)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 13:41:08 +0100
Subject: [OT] How do I reply to a thread by sending a message to 
	python-list@python.org
In-Reply-To: 
References: <20090827073102.293C91DF2@ctb-mesg8.saix.net>
	<4A964C3B.8090206@ieee.org> 
Message-ID: 

2009/8/27 Terry Reedy :
> reply-all may send duplicate messages to the author. Not sure of this list.

I'm fairly sure Mailman deals with that.

-- 
-David


From darcy at druid.net  Thu Aug 27 08:55:40 2009
From: darcy at druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 08:55:40 -0400
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References:  
	<02a54597$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <20090827085540.de12c38d.darcy@druid.net>

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 09:10:46 +0100
Stephen Fairchild  wrote:
> So why didn't you delete it after you were done with it?
> 
> Class Demo(object):

That should be "class".

>     _classvar = fact(5)
>     del fact()

I suppose you mean "del fact".

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain          |  Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
+1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.


From contact at xavierho.com  Thu Aug 27 08:59:51 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:59:51 +1000
Subject: List iterator thread safety
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908270559h58809a2na75e382c6638e7ac@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 3:43 AM, Emanuele D'Arrigo  wrote:

> Let's say I have a list accessed by two threads, one removing list
> items via "del myList[index]" statement the other iterating through
> the list and printing out the items via "for item in myList:"
> statement.


I tried something similar to that before. Gave me an error. I *think* it was
in compile-time, too, but I might be wrong. The message was something like
that the list size cannot be changed.


> Am I right to say this -won't- generate exceptions because
> the list iterator is not concerned with the list changing in size
> under its nose?


It kind of concerns about the size, I think. If it just checked the "next"
item, that would have been so awesome.


> Or are there pitfalls I should be aware of?


The pitfall is that I don't think it will work at all. At least I haven't
succeeded in doing this in the past.

If you make it work, be sure to share your thoughts =]

Good luck,
-Xav
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From manu3d at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 09:16:14 2009
From: manu3d at gmail.com (Emanuele D'Arrigo)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 06:16:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Does Class implements Interface?
Message-ID: <800d9226-6bbc-447e-a171-83777a9634b8@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

Greetings everybody,

let's say I have a Class C and I'd like to verify if it implements
Interface I. If I is available to me as a class object I can use
issubclass(C, I) and I can at least verify that I is a superclass of
C. There are a couple of issues with this approach however:

1) C might override not just I's methods code but also I's methods
signatures, effectively changing the interface.
2) What if I is -not- available to me as the superclass of C but as a
description of the interface, i.e. as an IDL(*) file?

Are there resources such as tools, recipes, documents or strategies
that could help me deal with these issues? I've already looked into
the ABC module and the zope.interface. I'm just fishing for more
things to look at.

Manu

(*) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interface_description_language


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Thu Aug 27 09:21:33 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 15:21:33 +0200
Subject: Python on the Web
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<4a94ef42$0$27774$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	
Message-ID: <4a96884b$0$22855$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Phil a ?crit :
(snip)
> However, 99.9% of the discussion I see with Python on
> the web is around FCGI.

May I suggest you spend some time reading django-users and django-dev on 
google groups ? (and that's only *one* of the way-too-many Python web 
frameworks).


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 09:26:04 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 06:26:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: List iterator thread safety
References: 
	
	<14e1469e-bcfe-4922-b135-3f0bd7e17a42@r42g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 27, 5:03?am, "Emanuele D'Arrigo"  wrote:
> On Aug 27, 2:01?am, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
>
> > Well, I'm not sure about exceptions, but you almost certainly won't get
> > the results you want.
>
> What I'd like in this context is to iterate through the items in the
> list without processing the same item twice and without skipping item
> that are in front of the current iterator position. Somehow I can't
> quite prove to myself if this is possible or not over multiple
> threads. I.e. a dictionary will throw an exception about the object
> changing size while iterating through it. A list doesn't, hence the
> question.

Deleting items from a list while iterating over it is a bad idea,
exceptions or not.

Hmm, this sounds like something someone might do for a game.  You have
a list of objects, and in a given time step you have to iterate
through the list and update each object.  Problem is, one of the
enemies is kill before you get to it, so you would like to remove the
object from the list while iterating.  Not an easy problem.

For this simple appeoach, I would suggest writing a custom container
(with an underlying list) with state to keep track of the current
iterating position.  Whenever an item is removed the index is modified
(so as to prevent skipping objects), and because you are keeping track
of the index yourself there is an iterator that might throw an
exception.

With threads, you would need to use a Condition or something to
sychronize access to the object.


Carl Banks


From deets at nospam.web.de  Thu Aug 27 09:27:16 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 15:27:16 +0200
Subject: ubuntu dist-packages
References: 
	<7fki3lF2kirnkU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	<71f5986e-6aae-46b0-8325-d67051c60a30@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7fnftkF2m6bvdU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Paul Boddie wrote:

> On 26 Aug, 17:48, Jorgen Grahn  wrote:
>>
>> Well, if you are thinking about Debian Linux, it's not as much
>> "ripping out" as "splitting into a separate package with a non-obvious
>> name". Annoying at times, but hardly an atrocity.
> 
> Indeed. Having seen two packages today which insisted on setuptools,
> neither really needing it, and with one actively trying to download
> stuff from the Internet (fifteen seconds warning - how generous!) when
> running setup.py, it seems to me that it isn't the distribution
> packagers who need to be re-thinking how they install Python software.
> 
> Generally, distributions have to manage huge amounts of software and
> uphold reasonable policies without creating unnecessary maintenance.
> Sadly, until very recently (and I'm still not entirely sure if there's
> really been an attitude change) the Pythonic packaging brigade has
> refused to even consider the needs of one of the biggest groups of
> consumers of the upstream code. Consequently, distributions will
> always devise different ways of storing installed Python software,
> documentation and resources, mostly because the Pythonic tools have
> been deficient, particularly in the management of the latter
> categories.

You mean it's the problem of the python packaging that it can't deal with
RPMs, debs, tgzs, OSX bundles, MSIs and
? 

Multiplied by the various packaging philosophies the respective distros
build based on these have?

I'm a Python-developer. I develop libraries and tools for Python, and want
others to be able to install these  - as I want to install things *other*
python developers created.

Setuptools let's me do that (most of the time. And I mean most).

If somebody thinks he wants to include these in whatever form he prefers -
fine with me. But it's hardly *my* problem, or that of the Python world in
general, to fulfill the requirements some other people come up with. 


Diez


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Thu Aug 27 09:27:59 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 15:27:59 +0200
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: <02a63e7d$0$15633$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 
	
	<02a63e7d$0$15633$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <200908271527.59982.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Thursday 27 August 2009 11:14:41 Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 08:38:29 +0200, Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:
> > On Wednesday 26 August 2009 17:14:27 kj wrote:
> >> As I described at length in another reply, the function in question is
> >> not intended to be "callable outside the class".  And yes,
> >
> > I think this might go to nub of your problem - It might help you to
> > think as follows:
> >
> > A Python class, even after it has been executed, does not really exist
> > except as a kind of template or pattern - it is mostly useless until an
> > instance of the class is made by calling it with whatever it needs to
> > set up the instance.  And once you have an instance, you can do stuff
> > with that particular instance.  Before that time, the class is mostly
> > just a promise of things to come.
>
> Oh my! I couldn't disagree more strongly! I think the above is totally
> incorrect.

It was intended to help the OP out of the mental hole he finds himself in.

Most of the classes I use fall directly into such a classification - they are 
useless until an instance is created.  And I would be so bold as to say that 
_all_  gui classes are like that. 

This is the pattern I am talking about:

class thing(object):
    def __init__(self,foo,bar):
        stuff to do things with foo and bar,
        creating or modifying attributes of
        the instance.

    def somemethod(self,baz,bling):
        instance method to do further operations on
        the attributes of the instance

Now kindly explain to me how a class like that is usefull before an instance 
of it is created, and I might agree with you that what I said is "totally 
incorrect"

8< --trivial examples showing that there is something there ------------

> Classes are themselves instances of their metaclass. By default, classes
> have a metaclass of type, but you can easily change that. Metaclass
> programming is advanced but very powerful.
>
> Because classes are themselves objects, you can (with a bit of metaclass
> jiggery-pokery) make them do all sorts of interesting things. For
> instance, huge amounts of effort are often put into creating a Singleton
> class, a class that has a single instance. Well, okay... but why not just
> use the class object itself, instead of an instance? There's already one
> of those, and you can't (easily) make a copy of it, and even if you did,
> it would be an independent class. Instead of this:
>
> singleton = SingletonClass(args)
> do_something_with(singleton)
>
> just do this:
>
> do_something_with(SingletonClass)
>
> Of course SingletonClass needs to be designed to work that way, which
> will probably need some metaclass magic. It would be interesting to see
> which requires less effort.

*nods* yes this would make sense - but it is not quite what either the OP or I 
was on about.

>
> When it comes to built-in classes (types), I often use the class object
> itself as an object. E.g. I might do something like this:
>
> def convert(seq):
>     t = type(seq)  # remember the original type
>     result = process(seq)  # always produces a list
>     if t is list:
>         return result  # don't bother making a copy of the result
>     elif t is str or t is unicode:
>         empty = t()
>         return empty.join(result)
>     else:
>         return t(result)  # return the original type

nice.  now try doing it with object:

thing = object()

After that, thing will exist, but it is a bit like write only memory - 
completely useless, until you have done some more work with it.

>
> >> recursive functions in Python *are* restricted in ways that
> >> non-recursive functions aren't.  The examples I've posted prove this
> >> point unambiguously.
> >
> > Yes and no - mostly no -  your examples just illustrate the point I
> > tried to make above.
>
> Completely no. You may have missed the examples I've given, but the
> problems the Original Poster were having had nothing to do with recursion.

The yes was in there to make the man feel a bit better, and because from where 
he stood, it _was_ the recursion that did him in.   : - )

>
> > Pythons object model, and its classes, are different from what you are
> > used to.  A bare class is mostly useless without an instance, which is
> > ultimately why accessing a function in a class from itself like you are
> > doing, without reference to an instance, does not work - the function
> > does not exist yet to a degree that it can be referenced.
>
> That is incorrect. What's going on is more subtle.
>
Right -  I can see that you are reading that to mean that there must be an 
instance.  That is not what I intended to bring across.  I was talking about 
the lack of a reference that is his original problem, which he only 
encountered with recursion.

> >>> class Demo:
>
> ...     def function(x):
> ...         print "Calling function with argument %s" % x
> ...     function(None)
> ...     function(1)
> ...     function(function)
> ...
> Calling function with argument None
> Calling function with argument 1
> Calling function with argument 
>
> >>> Demo
>
> 

two points:

Of what earthly use is a bare class like that - except possibly as a container 
for all the good stuff those functions produced out of nothing?   - You might 
as well use a list, or better a dict, to keep the results of such functions, 
unless the functions are procedures, doing things by side effect - and if 
that is the case, why bother putting them in a class?

Secondly:

Now what you have done is carefully avoided the OP's original problem, which 
arises when the function in the class is called, and tries to call itself at 
the time of execution of the class suite, and fails, for the reasons so 
nicely explained by a lot of people.  So the OP had a point when he 
complained that python does not like recursion, because, until he understands 
what is happening, the simplest theory that fits his observed facts is that 
the failure is caused by the recursion. - a completely rational conclusion 
based on Occam's razor.   It just happens to be wrong in this case.  This was 
the source for my "Yes" above.

This should also work for the OP - I cannot recall if it has been shown:

class Demo(object):
    def fact(x,f):
        if x < 2:
            return 1
        else:
            return x*f(x-1,f)

    thing = fact(42,fact)

I still think it is stupid, though - thing should simply be set to
1405006117752879898543142606244511569936384000000000L
and that would be the end of it for this use case, without the bother of a 
function and the concomitant waste of time.

- Hendrik



From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Thu Aug 27 09:28:20 2009
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 09:28:20 -0400
Subject: Does Class implements Interface?
In-Reply-To: <800d9226-6bbc-447e-a171-83777a9634b8@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <800d9226-6bbc-447e-a171-83777a9634b8@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Emanuele D'Arrigo  wrote:

> Greetings everybody,
>
> let's say I have a Class C and I'd like to verify if it implements
> Interface I. If I is available to me as a class object I can use
> issubclass(C, I) and I can at least verify that I is a superclass of
> C. There are a couple of issues with this approach however:
>
> 1) C might override not just I's methods code but also I's methods
> signatures, effectively changing the interface.
> 2) What if I is -not- available to me as the superclass of C but as a
> description of the interface, i.e. as an IDL(*) file?
>
> Are there resources such as tools, recipes, documents or strategies
> that could help me deal with these issues? I've already looked into
> the ABC module and the zope.interface. I'm just fishing for more
> things to look at.
>
> Manu
>
> (*) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interface_description_language


Python's general philosophy is that it's Easier to Ask Forgiveness than
Permission. Don't check the interface, just assume it's true and wrap the
code block in a try/except in case it isn't.

>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From anthony.tolle at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 09:36:25 2009
From: anthony.tolle at gmail.com (Anthony Tolle)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 06:36:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Move dictionary from instance to class level
References: 
Message-ID: <705c21b0-2858-46c2-8230-3cea64f5be3a@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

To take things one step further, I would recommend using decorators to
allow symbolic association of functions with the message identifiers,
as follows:

======================================

(MESSAGE_ONE
,MESSAGE_TWO
,MESSAGE_THREE
) = xrange(3)

class MyClass(object):
    method_dict = {}

    # create helper decorator
    register_method = lambda msg, method_dict=method_dict: lambda
function: method_dict.setdefault(msg, function)

    @register_method(MESSAGE_ONE)
    def handle_one(self):
        print 'handling MESSAGE_ONE'

    @register_method(MESSAGE_TWO)
    def handle_two(self):
        print 'handling MESSAGE_TWO'

    @register_method(MESSAGE_THREE)
    def handle_three(self):
        print 'handling MESSAGE_THREE'

    # no longer need helper decorator
    del register_method

    # function to dispatch messages
    def on_message_received(self, msg):
        MyClass.method_dict[msg](self)

x = MyClass()

x.on_message_received(MESSAGE_ONE)
x.on_message_received(MESSAGE_TWO)
x.on_message_received(MESSAGE_THREE)

======================================

Note: the line containing the lambda definition is all one line.


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Thu Aug 27 09:44:35 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 15:44:35 +0200
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: <02a6427a$0$15633$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 
	
	<02a6427a$0$15633$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <200908271544.35328.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Thursday 27 August 2009 11:31:41 Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>
> What you are calculating might actually be quite complicated to enter as
> a literal. You might have something like:

8< ---------- Complicated Table Example -------------------------------

Me?  - never!  I am just an assembler programmer.  I would not touch a thing 
like that with a barge pole.  Unless of course, I have to.

> Clearly this is a made-up example, but the principle is sound. If Python
> can calculate values for you, why not let it do so? It is easier for you,
> easier to check that you've calculated them correctly, easier to debug
> and read, it makes the algorithm clearer (fewer "magic constants"). Yes,
> there is a run-time cost, but you only pay it once, when you import the
> module, and it's likely to be not that much more expensive than parsing
> the literals anyway.
>
> Of course, for something as big and complicated as the above table, I'd
> almost certainly put the code to calculate it in a function outside of
> the class, but that's a matter of style, and it will work to put it
> inside the class.

It is a hell of a thing if it needs recursion to calculate - If it was really 
that complex, I would calculate it, check it (if I can), document it and put 
it in a module of its own, with "This side up", "Fragile", and other warning 
stickers all over it.

- Hendrik



From knurxs at gmx.de  Thu Aug 27 09:49:21 2009
From: knurxs at gmx.de (Michael)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 06:49:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Q: multiprocessing.Queue size limitations or bug...
References:  
	<9a338a3f-33a8-416c-af42-36f596c7cb71@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <24428363-dd55-40de-8fc0-45441c1aab22@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 27, 8:56?am, ryles  wrote:
> On Aug 26, 4:56?am, Michael Riedel 
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Sorry for being not more specific but I'm not absolutely certain whether
> > I encountered a bug or did anything wrong:
>
> > The (stupid) code below results in a stall forever or not at 'p0.join()'
> > depending on the value of TROUBLE_MAKER.
>
> > Any help, thoughts, comments?
>
> > Thank you for your time.
>
> > Michael
>
> > # ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > from multiprocessing import Process, Queue
>
> > # bit vector size
> > BVS=8
>
> > #
> > TROUBLE_MAKER=12 ?# for greater values p0.join() is never satisfied...
>
> > def evaluate(q, id, start=0, stop=2**BVS):
>
> > ? ? cmin = {0: []}
>
> > ? ? for mask0 in range(start, stop):
> > ? ? ? ? for mask1 in range(0, 2**BVS):
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? for mask2 in range(mask1, TROUBLE_MAKER):
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? cmin[0].append((mask0, mask1, mask2))
>
> > ? ? print 'process %d finished (dict layout: %d/%d)...' % (id,
> > len(cmin), len(cmin[0]))
> > ? ? q.put(cmin.copy())
> > ? ? q.close()
>
> > if __name__ == '__main__':
>
> > ? ? q0 = Queue()
> > ? ? q1 = Queue()
> > ? ? q2 = Queue()
> > ? ? q3 = Queue()
>
> > ? ? part = 2**BVS/4
> > ? ? p0 = Process(target=evaluate, args=(q0, 0, 0*part, 1*part),
> > name='worker_0')
> > ? ? p1 = Process(target=evaluate, args=(q1, 1, 1*part, 2*part),
> > name='worker_1')
> > ? ? p2 = Process(target=evaluate, args=(q2, 2, 2*part, 3*part),
> > name='worker_2')
> > ? ? p3 = Process(target=evaluate, args=(q3, 3, 3*part, 4*part),
> > name='worker_3')
> > ? ? p0.start()
> > ? ? print 'process 0 started...'
> > ? ? p1.start()
> > ? ? print 'process 1 started...'
> > ? ? p2.start()
> > ? ? print 'process 2 started...'
> > ? ? p3.start()
> > ? ? print 'process 3 started...'
> > ? ? # main process stalls at p0.join() for bigger TROUBLE_MAKER
> > ? ? p0.join()
> > ? ? p1.join()
> > ? ? p2.join()
> > ? ? p3.join()
> > ? ? res0 = q0.get()
> > ? ? res1 = q1.get()
> > ? ? res2 = q2.get()
> > ? ? res3 = q3.get()
> > ? ? print 'results fetched...'
>
> > # ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > --
>
> There is a warning related to this in the documentation:
>
> http://docs.python.org/library/multiprocessing.html#pipes-and-queues
>
> Basically, you should reverse the order of the get() and join() calls.
>
> multiprocessing does a pretty nice job of abstracting away the low-
> level details of IPC, but there are still some gotchas. As you've
> noticed, your program will deadlock when there is a large enough
> amount of data being put into the queue. This is related to a hidden
> thread that exists inside each of your child processes. The thread is
> responsible for taking your queue items from an internal buffer and
> then writing them into a pipe that your parent process will read from
> when get() is called. The pipe mechanism is what allows the two
> processes to pass information, and is supported directly by the
> Operating System. However, the pipe has a limited capacity, and when
> it is full, the writer thread is stuck waiting for the reader to read
> enough from the pipe so that it can finish its write. The problem is
> that your parent process (reader) is not actually calling get() to
> drain the pipe. Instead it's stuck in join() waiting for the writer to
> complete.

I see. I really appreciate your valuable feedback.


From no.email at please.post  Thu Aug 27 09:53:07 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 13:53:07 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 		
	
	<4a967b2f$0$19301$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: 

In <4a967b2f$0$19301$426a74cc at news.free.fr> Bruno Desthuilliers  writes:

>The only thing one is entitled to expect when learning a new language is 
>that the language's implementation follows the language specs.

In fact, the official docs, when they discuss scopes, are off to
a bad start:

  Names refer to objects. Names are introduced by name binding
  operations. Each occurrence of a name in the program text refers
  to the binding of that name established in the innermost function
  block containing the use.

The first paragraph implies that binding can only occur within
functions, which is either incorrect, or presupposes a definition
of "function" that is not what most programmers would recognize.

In general, I found the docs very unclear on the subject of scoping.
PEP 227 is much better, but I wouldn't have thought of it as "the
specs".

kynn


From szport at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 10:00:57 2009
From: szport at gmail.com (zaur)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 07:00:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Object's nesting scope
References: 
	<7fkqodF2llnghU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<1ea2a98f-4035-4ec6-b5a9-06b21dd6f584@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

On 26 ???, 23:56, MRAB  wrote:
> zaur wrote:
> > On 26 ???, 21:11, "Rami Chowdhury"  wrote:
> >>> person = Person():
> >>> ? name = "john"
> >>> ? age = 30
> >>> ? address = Address():
> >>> ? ? ?street = "Green Street"
> >>> ? ? ?no = 12
> >> Can you clarify what you mean? Would that define a Person class, and an ?
> >> Address class?
> > I suppose that someone already define classes Person ans Address.
> > For example, in this stupid way in a foreign module:
>
> > class Person(object):
> > ? ?pass
>
> > class Address(object):
> > ? ?pass
>
> > and the following statements
>
> > person = Person():
> > ? ?name = "john"
> > ? ?age = 30
> > ? ?address = Address():
> > ? ? ? street = "Green Street"
> > ? ? ? no = 12
>
> > are constructing an instance as follows:
>
> > person = Person()
> > person.name = "john"
> > person.age = 30
> > address = person.address = Address()
> > address.street = "Green Street"
> > address.no = 12
>
> [snip]
>
> Create factory functions:
>
> def new_address(**kwargs):
> ? ? ?address = Address()
> ? ? ?address.__dict__.update(kwargs)
> ? ? ?return address
>
> def new_person(**kwargs):
> ? ? ?person = Person()
> ? ? ?person.__dict__.update(kwargs)
> ? ? ?return person
>
> person = new_person(name="john", age=30,
> address=new_address(street="Green Street", no=12))

Original idea isn't about how to organize my code in order to
initialize these custom objects.
The idea is about to use object's dictionary as nested scope.


From paul at boddie.org.uk  Thu Aug 27 10:05:51 2009
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 07:05:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ubuntu dist-packages
References:  
	<7fki3lF2kirnkU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	 
	<71f5986e-6aae-46b0-8325-d67051c60a30@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> 
	<7fnftkF2m6bvdU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <0298b834-78b4-4501-a09b-9b8da5e796c1@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>

On 27 Aug, 15:27, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
>
> You mean it's the problem of the python packaging that it can't deal with
> RPMs, debs, tgzs, OSX bundles, MSIs and
> ?

No, it's the problem of the Pythonic packaging brigade that package
retrieval, building and installing is combined into one unsatisfactory
whole. Certainly, it's annoying to discover when building some
extension that the Python headers are missing, but the rhetorical
vehicle used in the Python community is to frame the distributions as
people who like to move stuff around unnecessarily and to corrupt
other people's work. In fact, the distributions have proven themselves
to be quite competent at managing huge numbers of software packages in
a semi-automated fashion, so it's baffling that people doing work on
Pythonic packaging tools wouldn't want to learn as much as they can
about how those people manage it.

For me, when making Debian packages, it has become easier to use the
debhelper stuff to install things like documentation and resources
than it is to figure out which special options have to be passed to
the particular distutils incarnation of the setup function in order to
get such stuff put in the right place, especially since distutils
probably still employs an ad-hoc 1990s proprietary UNIX "oh just dump
that stuff in some directory or other and forget about it" mentality.
Really, distutils should be all about *dist*ribution and even then get
out of the way as much as possible - the hard stuff is extracting the
appropriate knowledge about the built Python interpreter in order to
build extensions. Installation should be left to something which has
an opinion about where things should be placed on a particular system,
and which has the capability to know how to uninstall stuff - a
capability which never seems to get any closer in the distutils scene.

Paul


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Thu Aug 27 10:25:54 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 16:25:54 +0200
Subject: List iterator thread safety
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<14e1469e-bcfe-4922-b135-3f0bd7e17a42@r42g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <200908271625.54609.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Thursday 27 August 2009 15:26:04 Carl Banks wrote:

> Deleting items from a list while iterating over it is a bad idea,
> exceptions or not.
>
> Hmm, this sounds like something someone might do for a game.  You have
> a list of objects, and in a given time step you have to iterate
> through the list and update each object.  Problem is, one of the
> enemies is kill before you get to it, so you would like to remove the
> object from the list while iterating.  Not an easy problem.

Its not too bad - if you crook a bit - the trick is that you iterate over the 
list backwards when you are removing stuff based on index, so that the 
remainder does not get jumbled up by losing their positions, as happens when 
you do it going forwards.

- Hendrik


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 10:34:17 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 07:34:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Object's nesting scope
References: 
Message-ID: <2751e263-ace0-4649-997c-1302d0f3b320@m20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 26, 5:51?am, zaur  wrote:
> Hi folk!
>
> What do you think about idea of "object's nesting scope" in python?
>
> Let's imaging this feature, for example, in this syntax:
>
> obj=:
> ? ? ?
>
> or
>
> :
> ? ?
>
> That's means that result object of  evaluation is used as
> nested scope for  evaluation.
>
> So is this idea useful?

It might be marginally useful to save typing.  The idea has been
discussed in various forms here quite a bit over the years.  I doubt
there's any chance it'll be accepted into Python, because it goes
against one of the main design points of Python: that attributes
should always be accessed explicitly.

Having said that, the syntax you propose is awful. :) Normally when
this is proposed they use a keyword such as "using":

p = Person()
using p:
    name = "Carl Banks"
    location = "Los Angeles"

or, perhaps to save a line (even though it'd be a minor syntax abuse):

using Person() as p:
    name = "Carl Banks"
    location = "Los Angeles"


Carl Banks


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Thu Aug 27 10:39:24 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 16:39:24 +0200
Subject: Parse xml file
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4a969a9c$0$32665$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>

loial wrote:
> Is there a quick way to retrieve data from an xml file in python 2.4,
> rather than read the whole file?

ElementTree is available as an external package for Py2.4 (and it's in the
stdlib xml.etree package since 2.5).

It's pretty much the easiest way to get data out of XML files.

If your statement "rather than read the whole file" was referring to the
file size, note that the C implementation "cElementTree" of ElementTree is
very memory efficient, so you might still get away with just reading the
whole file into memory. There's also the iterparse() function which
supports iterative parsing of an XML file and thus allows intermediate
cleanup of used data.

Stefan


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 10:50:16 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 07:50:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: List iterator thread safety
References: 
	<14e1469e-bcfe-4922-b135-3f0bd7e17a42@r42g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> 
	 
	
Message-ID: <6bf89e55-2ddd-435f-925d-7cc3827c0f9a@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 27, 7:25?am, Hendrik van Rooyen 
wrote:
> On Thursday 27 August 2009 15:26:04 Carl Banks wrote:
>
> > Deleting items from a list while iterating over it is a bad idea,
> > exceptions or not.
>
> > Hmm, this sounds like something someone might do for a game. ?You have
> > a list of objects, and in a given time step you have to iterate
> > through the list and update each object. ?Problem is, one of the
> > enemies is kill before you get to it, so you would like to remove the
> > object from the list while iterating. ?Not an easy problem.
>
> Its not too bad - if you crook a bit - the trick is that you iterate over the
> list backwards when you are removing stuff based on index, so that the
> remainder does not get jumbled up by losing their positions, as happens when
> you do it going forwards.

That's only if you remove the "current item".  The OP has different
threads accessing the list at the same time, so I have to assume that
item being remove is not necessarily the current iteration.


Getting back to the game example, suppose your "list of objects in the
scene" looks like this:

[ HandsomeHero, Enemy1, Bullet1, Enemy2, Bullet2, Enemy3]

It might happen that Bullet1.update() detects a collision with Enemy2,
thus killing Enemy2, which means Enemy2 would have to be removed
before the next iteration.  Otherwise you're updating a zombie.
(Which, parenthetically, is another approach.)

Conversely, suppose Bullet2.update() detects a collision with Enemy1,
and Enemy1 is removed from the list.  Then Enemy3 is going to be
skipped.

In order to handle both cases (where an item could be removed ahead of
or before the current item), you have to keep track of the current
index and adjust it.  A list iterator won't work.


For the record, I use a more sophisticated system that explicitly
resolves cause and effect in my games.  That's probably beyond the
scope of this thread, though.


Carl Banks


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Thu Aug 27 10:59:47 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 16:59:47 +0200
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: <02a66947$0$15633$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 
	
	
	
	<02a66947$0$15633$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

14:17:15 Steven D'Aprano  wrote:

> The class is a scope, and inside the class scope, you can access local
> names. What you can't do is access the class scope from inside nested
> functions.

s/from inside nested functions/from inside nested scopes

Besides that detail, I fully agree.

*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From szport at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 11:01:14 2009
From: szport at gmail.com (zaur)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 08:01:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Object's nesting scope
References: 
	<2751e263-ace0-4649-997c-1302d0f3b320@m20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On 27 ???, 18:34, Carl Banks  wrote:
> On Aug 26, 5:51?am, zaur  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi folk!
>
> > What do you think about idea of "object's nesting scope" in python?
>
> > Let's imaging this feature, for example, in this syntax:
>
> > obj=:
> > ? ? ?
>
> > or
>
> > :
> > ? ?
>
> > That's means that result object of  evaluation is used as
> > nested scope for  evaluation.
>
> > So is this idea useful?
>
> It might be marginally useful to save typing.
It also allow to structure the code.

> The idea has been
> discussed in various forms here quite a bit over the years. ?I doubt
> there's any chance it'll be accepted into Python, because it goes
> against one of the main design points of Python: that attributes
> should always be accessed explicitly.
I don't in general consider this idea as a way for implicit access to
object's attributes.
Idea is about to use in some way object's dictionary as nested scope
in a code block.

I agree though that using this only for saving typing or implicit
attribute access isn't a good idea.

> Having said that, the syntax you propose is awful. :) Normally when
> this is proposed they use a keyword such as "using":
>
> p = Person()
> using p:
> ? ? name = "Carl Banks"
> ? ? location = "Los Angeles"
>
> or, perhaps to save a line (even though it'd be a minor syntax abuse):
>
> using Person() as p:
> ? ? name = "Carl Banks"
> ? ? location = "Los Angeles"
I don't propose concrete syntax for using object's dictionary as
nested scope.
I used current only to explain the idea.



From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 11:19:04 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 08:19:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Object's nesting scope
References: 
	<2751e263-ace0-4649-997c-1302d0f3b320@m20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: <03269cff-acd9-401a-b98d-0b1136b0d2e0@s13g2000yql.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 27, 8:01?am, zaur  wrote:
> On 27 ???, 18:34, Carl Banks  wrote:
> > The idea has been
> > discussed in various forms here quite a bit over the years. ?I doubt
> > there's any chance it'll be accepted into Python, because it goes
> > against one of the main design points of Python: that attributes
> > should always be accessed explicitly.
>
> I don't in general consider this idea as a way for implicit access to
> object's attributes.

That's what is it regardless of what you consider it.

> Idea is about to use in some way object's dictionary as nested scope
> in a code block.

Which is implicitly accessing the object's attributes.


Carl Banks


From davea at ieee.org  Thu Aug 27 11:43:22 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 11:43:22 -0400
Subject: Move dictionary from instance to class level
In-Reply-To: <20090827102111.ABC3B1F93@ctb-mesg4.saix.net>
References: <20090827102111.ABC3B1F93@ctb-mesg4.saix.net>
Message-ID: <4A96A99A.1090100@ieee.org>

Frank Millman wrote:
> Dave Angel wrote: 
>   
>> Frank Millman wrote:
>>     
>>> That is definitely *not* what I want to do.
>>>
>>> I want to make the server as generic as possible, so that 
>>>       
>> it can handle any
>>     
>>> type of client, hopefully even including a browser 
>>>       
>> eventually. Therefore the
>>     
>>> server has no knowledge of wxPython event types.
>>>
>>> I have abstracted all the event types I am interested in 
>>>       
>> (the list is fairly
>>     
>>> stable now). My protocol requires that the client maps a 
>>>       
>> specific gui event
>>     
>>> type to a message identifier, and the server maps the 
>>>       
>> message identifier to
>>     
>>> a method that handles the message.
>>>
>>> Hope that makes sense.
>>>
>>> Frank
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>>>       
>> Yes, it makes sense. Sorry for heading down that particular 
>> dead-end.  
>> But the more I think about it, the more likely I think it is 
>> that you'll 
>> be adding new message types, even if they're just variants of ones 
>> already defined.  So it might behoove you to have a shared "data 
>> structure" that describes the whole message, not just equates 
>> a name to 
>> an integer.
>>
>> Or consider pickling.  I don't know the tradeoffs, but the 
>> idea is that 
>> an object is constructed at the other end that has all the same data 
>> members as the object you had at this end.  Perhaps with a flexible 
>> enough class definition, you could represent all or at least 
>> several of 
>> your messages with the same object.
>>
>> I am curious about your topology.  You're sending events from 
>> the client 
>> (which presumably has a mouse and keyboard) to a server.  But 
>> what does 
>> the server do with those?  Does it have its own screen, or what?
>>
>>     
>
> I'll try to explain.
>
> I am writing a fairly standard business/accounting application. (I am now
> adding Business Process Management to it, which is complicating matters, but
> that is another story.)
>
> Most of the gui stuff is basic forms processing - screens with static data,
> text fields for display and input of data, and buttons for signifying
> certain actions to be taken.
>
> My original attempt had both the gui and the business logic running on the
> client, with a connection to a database running on a server. It worked, but
> then I realised it was very insecure - it would be easy to hack the python
> code, bypass the business logic, and allow any update to the database.
>
> So my second attempt took all the business logic out of the client and put
> it onto the server. To execute a form, the server builds a form definition
> by creating objects to represent each of the widgets, creates a list of the
> components with sufficient information for the client to render them , then
> sends a json'd copy of the list to the client, which interprets it and
> displays the required form. The client informs the server of each event, and
> the server handles the event in much the same way as it did before when the
> business logic was on the client.
>
> For example, clicking a button triggers a response which could involve
> updating the database, displaying another window with additional data, etc,
> etc. Previously there would have been a method on the client designed to
> handle the response, and the method would be added to the button constructor
> so that it would be called when the button was clicked.
>
> Now the method is on the server, and is stored as an attribute of the button
> object on the server. When the user clicks the button, the message is passed
> up to the server (each widget has its own id, which is part of the message),
> the server is notified that the button was clicked, and it calls the
> associated method.
>
> There is a lot more to it than that, but hopefully that will give you an
> idea.
>
> If I ever get this to a workable state (it is taking far longer than I
> anticipated) I will release it as open source, and will then welcome as much
> feedback as possible.
>
> Frank
>
>
>   
OK, that makes good sense.  And I withdraw any suggestion to use 
pickling, since that could be subject to hacking.

It now appears that the messages are only incidentally GUI events.  And 
that you would be well advised to make every possible event a separate 
message, so that if the server state and the client state get out of 
synch, you can readily check and reject such operations.  For example, 
you'd have a message for pressing the SUBMIT button on a particular 
form, but you'd have different message types for other buttons on the 
same form, or for SUBMIT on other forms.

DaveA


From szport at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 11:43:55 2009
From: szport at gmail.com (zaur)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 08:43:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Object's nesting scope
References: 
	<2751e263-ace0-4649-997c-1302d0f3b320@m20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com> 
	 
	<03269cff-acd9-401a-b98d-0b1136b0d2e0@s13g2000yql.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2c78ef30-3af6-45bd-b772-e09d895b0cd8@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On 27 ???, 19:19, Carl Banks  wrote:
> On Aug 27, 8:01?am, zaur  wrote:
>
> > On 27 ???, 18:34, Carl Banks  wrote:
> > > The idea has been
> > > discussed in various forms here quite a bit over the years. ?I doubt
> > > there's any chance it'll be accepted into Python, because it goes
> > > against one of the main design points of Python: that attributes
> > > should always be accessed explicitly.
>
> > I don't in general consider this idea as a way for implicit access to
> > object's attributes.
>
> That's what is it regardless of what you consider it.
>
> > Idea is about to use in some way object's dictionary as nested scope
> > in a code block.
>
> Which is implicitly accessing the object's attributes.
>
> Carl Banks

In my opinion idea of using object's dictionary as nested scope is
more about structuring code blocks rather than just saving typing and
implicit attribute access.


From cournape at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 11:45:01 2009
From: cournape at gmail.com (David Cournapeau)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 10:45:01 -0500
Subject: ubuntu dist-packages
In-Reply-To: <7fnftkF2m6bvdU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
References: 
	<7fki3lF2kirnkU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	<71f5986e-6aae-46b0-8325-d67051c60a30@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<7fnftkF2m6bvdU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <5b8d13220908270845g67bb8d05w1dda70f433e29914@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 8:27 AM, Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> Paul Boddie wrote:
>
>> On 26 Aug, 17:48, Jorgen Grahn  wrote:
>>>
>>> Well, if you are thinking about Debian Linux, it's not as much
>>> "ripping out" as "splitting into a separate package with a non-obvious
>>> name". Annoying at times, but hardly an atrocity.
>>
>> Indeed. Having seen two packages today which insisted on setuptools,
>> neither really needing it, and with one actively trying to download
>> stuff from the Internet (fifteen seconds warning - how generous!) when
>> running setup.py, it seems to me that it isn't the distribution
>> packagers who need to be re-thinking how they install Python software.
>>
>> Generally, distributions have to manage huge amounts of software and
>> uphold reasonable policies without creating unnecessary maintenance.
>> Sadly, until very recently (and I'm still not entirely sure if there's
>> really been an attitude change) the Pythonic packaging brigade has
>> refused to even consider the needs of one of the biggest groups of
>> consumers of the upstream code. Consequently, distributions will
>> always devise different ways of storing installed Python software,
>> documentation and resources, mostly because the Pythonic tools have
>> been deficient, particularly in the management of the latter
>> categories.
>
> You mean it's the problem of the python packaging that it can't deal with
> RPMs, debs, tgzs, OSX bundles, MSIs and
> ?

Of course it is - not because distutils should know about them but on
the contrary because it should be possible to tweak the installation
parameters to accomodate the various packaging solutions. Autotools,
cmake, etc... do not need anything about rpm, debian, msi, and yet,
they can be used to that purpose.

cheers,

David


From diesch at spamfence.net  Thu Aug 27 11:54:03 2009
From: diesch at spamfence.net (Florian Diesch)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 17:54:03 +0200
Subject: ubuntu dist-packages
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

Robin Becker  writes:

> Florian Diesch wrote:
> .........
>>
>>>From /usr/lib/python2.6/site.py:
>>
>> ,----
>> | For Debian and derivatives, this sys.path is augmented with directories
>> | for packages distributed within the distribution. Local addons go
>> | into /usr/local/lib/python/dist-packages, Debian addons
>> | install into /usr/{lib,share}/python/dist-packages.
>> | /usr/lib/python/site-packages is not used.
>> `----
>
> the above is not present in my windows documentation (or indeed
> site.py) at all so it seems they just decided to change the
> name. Anyone trying to debug why their distutils or setuptools or
> whichever python packager is going wrong will have yet another detail
> to remember. 

setuptools works fine for me in Ubuntu 9.04; eggs go to
/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/ like they should according to site.py

> In addition, as any one who has done such trivial changes
> will already know, they forgot to do it globally eg my 0.4.1.0 version
> of the "Debian Python Policy" document explicitly mentions
> site-packages.

It's a change for the Python 2.6 package, see

and /usr/lib/python2.5/site.py

Python 2.6 is only in Debian experimental, I guess there is a new
version of the Debian Python Policy coming.



   Florian
-- 



From phily05 at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 11:58:19 2009
From: phily05 at gmail.com (Phil)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 08:58:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python on the Web
References: 
	<4a94ef42$0$27774$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	
	<4a96884b$0$22855$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <1b7a2f45-dd10-4722-a9d8-8c6d2464e4d6@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

Thanks Graham. I actually ended up reading that blog post from a
Google search last night before I saw your response. It was very
informative.

Bruno, I will take a look at those groups to expand my knowledge. When
I gave that arbitrary percentage, I was basing it off of the
information I had seen with regards to launching applications built
with existing frameworks using lighttpd. I do realize I was missing a
lot of information by looking up something that specific. I also
understand that there are enough frameworks. That still won't change
my mind. I do not want to write a web application, otherwise I would
use an existing framework as suggested. I just wanted to experiment
and see what kind of framework I could develop with some ideas I had
in mind. The original post was mostly just because I was having a
difficulty understanding some lower level concepts as a result of
trying to get Python 3 on the web before figuring out that it wasn't
quite ready for that. I just really like some of the new features of
Python 3, and most importantly, unicode compliance is just that much
straight forward in my opinion.


From robin_v at bigpond.com  Thu Aug 27 12:07:20 2009
From: robin_v at bigpond.com (robin)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 16:07:20 GMT
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10
References: 
	
	
	<6031ba08-08c8-416b-91db-ce8ff57ae8e5@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<1ituygwxqe7p$.scuioqblznea.dlg@40tude.net>
	
Message-ID: 

"James Harris"  wrote in message
news:bc3607b3-7fdd-43fd-8ede-66ac3f597403 at 32g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
On 22 Aug, 10:27, David <71da... at libero.it> wrote:

>They look good - which is important. The trouble (for me) is that I
>want the notation for a new programming language and already use these
>characters. I have underscore as an optional separator for groups of
>digits - 123000 and 123_000 mean the same. The semicolon terminates a
>statement. Based on your second idea, though, maybe a colon could be
>used instead as in

XPL uses "(2)1011" for base 4,
"(3)03212" for octal,
"(4)0741" for base 16.

PL/I uses 8FXN for numeric hex and X suffix for a hex character constant.






From sylvain.thenault at logilab.fr  Thu Aug 27 12:10:22 2009
From: sylvain.thenault at logilab.fr (Sylvain =?utf-8?B?VGjDqW5hdWx0?=)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 18:10:22 +0200
Subject: [ANN] pylint 0.18.1 / astng 0.19.1
Message-ID: <20090827161022.GF4791@lupus.logilab.fr>

Hi there,

I'm pleased to announce a new bug fixes release of pylint and astng.
To see what have been fixed and to download it (unless your using 
debian, ubuntu or easy_install of course :), check:

http://www.logilab.org/project/pylint/0.18.1
http://www.logilab.org/project/logilab-astng/0.19.1

-- 
Sylvain Th?nault                               LOGILAB, Paris (France)
Formations Python, Debian, M?th. Agiles: http://www.logilab.fr/formations
D?veloppement logiciel sur mesure:       http://www.logilab.fr/services
CubicWeb, the semantic web framework:    http://www.cubicweb.org



From robert.kern at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 12:16:41 2009
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 11:16:41 -0500
Subject: Overriding iadd for dictionary like objects
In-Reply-To: <21e57363-4e92-41cb-9907-5aef96ad0a6e@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: 		
	
	<21e57363-4e92-41cb-9907-5aef96ad0a6e@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-27 01:49 AM, RunThePun wrote:

> Anybody have any more ideas? I think python should/could havev a
> syntax for overriding this behaviour, i mean, obviously the complexity
> of supporting all operators with the getitem syntax could introduce
> alot of clutter. But maybe there's an elegant solution out there...

I would recommend just adding a method to MyDict that does exactly what you want.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From robert.kern at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 12:26:31 2009
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 11:26:31 -0500
Subject: [OT] How do I reply to a thread by sending a message to
	python-list@python.org
In-Reply-To: 
References: <20090827073102.293C91DF2@ctb-mesg8.saix.net>	<4A964C3B.8090206@ieee.org>
	
	
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-27 07:41 AM, David House wrote:
> 2009/8/27 Terry Reedy:
>> reply-all may send duplicate messages to the author. Not sure of this list.
>
> I'm fairly sure Mailman deals with that.

Many of us read from comp.lang.python for gmane.comp.python.general. I do not 
appreciate getting reply emails to my inbox.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From shashank.sunny.singh at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 12:39:06 2009
From: shashank.sunny.singh at gmail.com (Shashank Singh)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:09:06 +0530
Subject: (Simple?) Unicode Question
Message-ID: <332972a20908270939m57be4e51tc5785b880ec642b3@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All!

I have a very simple (and probably stupid) question eluding me.
When exactly is the char-set information needed?

To make my question clear consider reading a file.
While reading a file, all I get is basically an array of bytes.

Now suppose a file has 10 bytes in it (all is data, no metadata,
forget the BOM and stuff for a little while). I read it into an array of 10
bytes, replace, say, 2nd bytes and write all the bytes back to a new
file.

Do i need the character encoding mumbo jumbo anywhere in this?

Further, does anything, except a printing device need to know the
encoding of a piece of "text"? I mean, as long as we are not trying
to get a symbolic representation of a "text" or get "i"th character
of it, all we need to do is to carry the intended encoding as
an auxiliary information to the data stored as byte array.

Right?

--shashank
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

From davea at ieee.org  Thu Aug 27 12:42:10 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 12:42:10 -0400
Subject: About diagram and python
In-Reply-To: <030422b7-a4f8-4ea6-8708-4486da4cf595@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
References: <030422b7-a4f8-4ea6-8708-4486da4cf595@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A96B762.7030209@ieee.org>

catalinfest at gmail.com wrote:
> Hello!
> I see on my Diagram Editor software this :
> File -> Export... -> (on  Export option is : PyDia Code
> Generation ... .py)
> What python is in this file ?
> How help me with python code ?
> Thank you !
>
>   
And when I start my car the radio is tuned to the wrong station.  Could 
somebody tell me how to change the tubes on it?  Or maybe I have a flat 
tire?

When asking a question, give enough information that somebody has a 
chance of answering it.  Otherwise you're wasting your time and ours.

There are hundreds of "diagram editors" out there.  Brand, version, 
maybe the URL to a website to download it.


DaveA


From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 12:44:41 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 09:44:41 -0700
Subject: (Simple?) Unicode Question
In-Reply-To: <332972a20908270939m57be4e51tc5785b880ec642b3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <332972a20908270939m57be4e51tc5785b880ec642b3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

> Further, does anything, except a printing device need to know the
> encoding of a piece of "text"?

I may be wrong, but I believe that's part of the idea between separation  
of string and bytes types in Python 3.x. I believe, if you are using  
Python 3.x, you don't need the character encoding mumbo jumbo at all ;-)

If you're using Python 2.x, though, I believe if you simply set the file  
opening mode to binary then data you read() should still be treated as an  
array of bytes, although you may encounter issues trying to access the  
n'th character.

Please do correct me if I'm wrong, anyone.

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 09:39:06 -0700, Shashank Singh  
 wrote:

> Hi All!
>
> I have a very simple (and probably stupid) question eluding me.
> When exactly is the char-set information needed?
>
> To make my question clear consider reading a file.
> While reading a file, all I get is basically an array of bytes.
>
> Now suppose a file has 10 bytes in it (all is data, no metadata,
> forget the BOM and stuff for a little while). I read it into an array of  
> 10
> bytes, replace, say, 2nd bytes and write all the bytes back to a new
> file.
>
> Do i need the character encoding mumbo jumbo anywhere in this?
>
> Further, does anything, except a printing device need to know the
> encoding of a piece of "text"? I mean, as long as we are not trying
> to get a symbolic representation of a "text" or get "i"th character
> of it, all we need to do is to carry the intended encoding as
> an auxiliary information to the data stored as byte array.
>
> Right?
>
> --shashank



-- 
Rami Chowdhury
"Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --  
Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)


From invalid at invalid  Thu Aug 27 12:47:41 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 11:47:41 -0500
Subject: [OT] How do I reply to a thread by sending a message to
	python-list@python.org
References: <20090827073102.293C91DF2@ctb-mesg8.saix.net>
	<4A964C3B.8090206@ieee.org> 
	
	
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-27, Robert Kern  wrote:
> On 2009-08-27 07:41 AM, David House wrote:
>> 2009/8/27 Terry Reedy:
>>> reply-all may send duplicate messages to the author. Not sure of this list.
>>
>> I'm fairly sure Mailman deals with that.
>
> Many of us read from comp.lang.python or gmane.comp.python.general.
> I do not appreciate getting reply emails to my inbox.

Same here.  I haven't noticed it happening much for c.l.p, but
on some other lists it seems to be a common (and annoying)
practice.  For those lists, I usually set up e-mail filters for
those lists to route such replys to /dev/null.  I haven't yet
done so for c.l.p...

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! I just forgot my whole
                                  at               philosophy of life!!!
                               visi.com            


From marduk at letterboxes.org  Thu Aug 27 12:49:36 2009
From: marduk at letterboxes.org (Albert Hopkins)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 12:49:36 -0400
Subject: (Simple?) Unicode Question
In-Reply-To: <332972a20908270939m57be4e51tc5785b880ec642b3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <332972a20908270939m57be4e51tc5785b880ec642b3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1251391776.79209.5.camel@centar.nbk>

On Thu, 2009-08-27 at 22:09 +0530, Shashank Singh wrote:
> Hi All!
> 
> I have a very simple (and probably stupid) question eluding me.
> When exactly is the char-set information needed?
> 
> To make my question clear consider reading a file.
> While reading a file, all I get is basically an array of bytes.
> 
> Now suppose a file has 10 bytes in it (all is data, no metadata,
> forget the BOM and stuff for a little while). I read it into an array
> of 10
> bytes, replace, say, 2nd bytes and write all the bytes back to a new
> file. 
> 
> Do i need the character encoding mumbo jumbo anywhere in this?
> 
> Further, does anything, except a printing device need to know the
> encoding of a piece of "text"? I mean, as long as we are not trying
> to get a symbolic representation of a "text" or get "i"th character
> of it, all we need to do is to carry the intended encoding as
> an auxiliary information to the data stored as byte array.

If you are just reading and writing bytes then you are just reading and
writing bytes.  Where you need to worry about unicode, etc. is when you
start treating a series of bytes as TEXT (e.g. how many *characters* are
in this byte array).* 

This is no different, IMO, than treating a byte stream vs a image file.
You don't, need to worry about resolution, palette, bit-depth, etc. if
you are only treating as a stream of bytes.  The only difference between
the two is that in Python "unicode" is a built-in type and "image"
isn't ;)

* Just make sure that if you are manipulating byte streams independent
of it's textual representation that you open files, e.g., in binary
mode.

-a




From davea at ieee.org  Thu Aug 27 12:52:53 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 12:52:53 -0400
Subject: [OT] How do I reply to a thread by sending a message to
	python-list@python.org
In-Reply-To: <2d56febf0908270326p58adda54w306eb823710bb952@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090827073102.293C91DF2@ctb-mesg8.saix.net>	<4A964C3B.8090206@ieee.org>
	<2d56febf0908270326p58adda54w306eb823710bb952@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A96B9E5.3030709@ieee.org>

Xavier Ho wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 7:04 PM, Dave Angel  wrote:
>
>   
> 
>   
Thanks for those pointers.
>> For example, I see a single message containing typically around 10
>> attachments.  I do the reply-all to one of these attachments, and it handles
>> the message body okay, the To/CC fields okay,
>>     
>
>
> What do you mean 10 attachments? O_o. I know some people like to attach a
> company logo in their signature. (The Aussie DLF list people do that heaps.
> Although some people post a hand-written sig in the attachment ... I'm not
> sure how smart that is, but I've seen it done.) Where are you getting these
> "attachments"?
>
>   
The message is a "digest" containing between 1 and 20 messages.  The 
"index" is in the main message, and all the actual messages are encoded 
as attachments.  I also see actual attachments, and sometimes signatures 
as attachments.  But the ones I'm talking about have extension .eml.
> I haven't tried reply-all yet. May give that a try next time and see what
> pops up in the To: address.
>
>
>   
>> usually adds an extra RE: on the subject (so it becomes RE: RE: subject).
>>     
>
>
> Gmail doesn't do that. Yay! (Re: is dumb anyway, and you can't prepend Re:
> forever. Fwd: is reasonable.)
>
>
>   
If I have a direct message with a Re: at the beginning, Thunderbird does 
not add an extra one to my reply subject.  Only when I'm doing it on one 
of these attachments.
> 
>  I didn't know ** marks bold. Does __ mark underline? Those are cool things
> I never hear about. Thanks!
>
>   
I don't know about any others other than *bold* text.  And I don't know 
if it shows up in everyone's viewer that way, or just some.

DaveA


From josefg at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 13:04:38 2009
From: josefg at gmail.com (josef)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 10:04:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Object Reference question
References: <2dcf41c3-6623-48d9-bb74-97f753088479@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <9feee13c-117e-4806-b238-e4152a68adfb@18g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

Thanks to everyone who responded.

I will be going with some sort of a = MyClass(name = 'a') format. It's
the Python way.

For me, it was very hard to accept that EVERYTHING is an object
reference. And that there are no object reference names, just string
entries in dictionaries. But I think it all makes sense now.

Thanks again,

Josef


On Aug 21, 1:07?am, josef  wrote:
> To begin, I'm new with python. I've read a few discussions about
> object references and I think I understand them.
>
> To be clear, Python uses a "Pass By Object Reference" model.
> x = 1
> x becomes the object reference, while an object is created with the
> type 'int', value 1, and identifier (id(x)). Doing this with a class,
> x = myclass(), does the same thing, but with more or less object
> attributes. Every object has a type and an identifier (id()),
> according to the Python Language Reference for 2.6.2 section 3.1.
>
> x in both cases is the object reference. I would like to use the
> object to refer to the object reference. If I have a gross
> misunderstanding, please correct me.
>
> The following is what I would like to do:
> I have a list of class instances dk = [ a, b, c, d ], where a, b, c, d
> is an object reference. Entering dk gives me the object: [MyClass0
> instance at 0x0000, MyClass1 instance at 0x0008, MyClass2 instance at
> 0x0010 ... ]
>
> I need the object reference name (a,b,c,d) from dk to use as input for
> a file. Where do I find the memory location of the object reference
> and the object reference name memory location? I am unconcerned with
> the fact that the memory location will change the next time I run a
> python session. I will be using the object reference name for
> processing right away.
>
> My main focus of this post is: "How do I find and use object reference
> memory locations?"
>
> Thoughts?
> Thanks,
>
> Josef



From milesck at umich.edu  Thu Aug 27 13:27:40 2009
From: milesck at umich.edu (Miles Kaufmann)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 10:27:40 -0700
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <13DD6BD6-A688-4870-AA57-8FCF1A122C5A@umich.edu>

On Aug 26, 2009, at 1:11 PM, kj wrote:
> I think I understand the answers well enough.  What I *really*
> don't understand is why this particular "feature" of Python (i.e.
> that functions defined within a class statement are forbidden from
> "seeing" other identifiers defined within the class statement) is
> generally considered to be perfectly OK.  IMO it's a bizarre,
> inexplicable blindspot (which, among other things, gives rise to
> a certain worry about what other similar craziness lurks under
> Python's image of rationality).  I have never seen even a half-hearted
> justification, from a language design point of view, for why this
> particular "feature" is worth having.

Guido's design justifications:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2000-November/010598.html

--

My personal justification:

Python has used the same basic method of class creation since the very  
beginning: create a new local namespace, execute the class suite in  
that namespace, and then create a class, using the contents of the  
namespace as the class attributes.  The important thing to note here  
is that there are really *two* namespaces--the local namespace that  
exists while the class suite is being executed (what I call the "suite  
namespace"), and the namespace of the class itself--and the first  
ceases to exist when the second is created.  The two namespaces  
generally contain the same names at the point that the transfer  
occurs, but they don't have to; the metaclass (which constructs the  
class) is free to mess with the dictionary of attributes before  
creating the class.

Suppose for a moment that the suite namespace *were* visible to nested  
scopes.  The simplest and most consistent implementation would be to  
have a closure generated by a class statement be similar to that  
generated by a function--i.e., the closure would be over the suite  
namespace.  This hardly seems desirable, though, because the suite  
namespace and the class namespace would get out of sync when different  
objects were assigned to the class namespace:

class C:
   x = 1
   def foo(self):
       print x
       print self.x

 >>> o = C()
 >>> o.foo()
1
1
 >>> o.x = 2
 >>> o.foo()
1
2

Surely such an implementation would be considered an even larger  
Python wart then not having the suite namespace visible to nested  
scopes at all.  But it's better than the alternative of trying to  
unify the class suite namespace and the class namespace, which would  
be a nightmare of special cases (adding/deleting class attributes?  
descriptors? __getattr__?) and require an implementation completely  
separate from that of normal nested scopes.

-Miles

P.S. Just for fun:

import types

def make_class(*bases):
"""Decorator to allow you to (ab)use a function as a class definition.

The function must take no arguments and end with 'return locals()';
bases are (optionally) specified as arguments to make_class;
metaclasses other than 'type' are not supported.

 >>> @make_class
... def C():
...     greeting = 'Hello'
...     target = 'world'
...     def greet(self):
...         print '%s, %s' % (self.greeting, target)
...     return locals()
...
 >>> C().greet()
Hello, world
"""

def decorator(func):
   return type(func.func_name, bases, func())
if len(bases) == 1 and isinstance(bases[0], types.FunctionType):
   func = bases[0]
   bases = (object,)
   return decorator(func)
if not bases:
   bases = (object,)
return decorator



From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Thu Aug 27 13:31:04 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 10:31:04 -0700
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: <02a0b085$0$30337$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 	<87d46ok948.fsf@benfinney.id.au>	
	<02a0b085$0$30337$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4A96C2D8.5040002@stoneleaf.us>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> A mistake is still a mistake even if it shared with others.
> 
> Treating its with a lead zero as octal was a design error when it was 
> first thought up 

[snippage]

I have to disagree with you on this one.  The computing world was vastly 
different when that design decision was made.  Space was at a premium, 
programmers were not touch-typists, every character had to count, and 
why in the world would somebody who had to use papertape or punch cards 
add a lead zero without a *real* good reason?  I submit that that real 
good reason was to specify an octal literal, and not a decimal literal.

Now many many years have passed, much has changed, and a leading zero 
(like so much else) no longer makes the sense in once did -- especially 
in a very wide-spread and general purpose language like Python.  That 
does not mean it was not a very good decision at the time.

~Ethan~


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Aug 27 13:42:58 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 18:42:58 +0100
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: <4A96C2D8.5040002@stoneleaf.us>
References: 	<87d46ok948.fsf@benfinney.id.au>		<02a0b085$0$30337$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<4A96C2D8.5040002@stoneleaf.us>
Message-ID: <4A96C5A2.4020307@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Ethan Furman wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> A mistake is still a mistake even if it shared with others.
>>
>> Treating its with a lead zero as octal was a design error when it was 
>> first thought up 
> 
> [snippage]
> 
> I have to disagree with you on this one.  The computing world was vastly 
> different when that design decision was made.  Space was at a premium, 
> programmers were not touch-typists, every character had to count, and 
> why in the world would somebody who had to use papertape or punch cards 
> add a lead zero without a *real* good reason?  I submit that that real 
> good reason was to specify an octal literal, and not a decimal literal.
> 
> Now many many years have passed, much has changed, and a leading zero 
> (like so much else) no longer makes the sense in once did -- especially 
> in a very wide-spread and general purpose language like Python.  That 
> does not mean it was not a very good decision at the time.
> 
I think that it although it might have been reasonable when C was
invented, it wasn't a good idea when Python was invented.


From mensanator at aol.com  Thu Aug 27 13:49:27 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 10:49:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
References:  
	
	<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com> 
	
	
	
	
	<02a31f91$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<44bcb727-0885-4d4f-9c11-ca60a39b0d91@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<02a3e1e2$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<02a53d89$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<8d25833e-8008-42e9-ad24-10ddd4f6cbef@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<02a5d290$0$15633$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	 
	<02a5ed07$0$15633$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <9f392780-cb72-4bdb-a571-b1c218f3cbf8@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 26, 10:27?pm, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 18:53:04 -0700, Erik Max Francis wrote:
> >> In any case, unary is the standard term for what I'm discussing:
>
> >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unary_numeral_system



> This really isn't anywhere near as controversial as you guys are making
> it. Words sometimes have meanings different from what you expect from
> reasoning by analogy. Get over it.

Fine. I'm over it. Point is, I HAVE encountered plenty of people
who DON'T properly understand it, Marilyn Vos Savant, for example.
You can't blame me for thinking you don't understand it either
when unary is brought up in a discussion of how to interpret
insignificant leading 0's.

>
> --
> Steven



From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Thu Aug 27 13:51:16 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 10:51:16 -0700
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: <4A96C5A2.4020307@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: 	<87d46ok948.fsf@benfinney.id.au>		<02a0b085$0$30337$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	<4A96C2D8.5040002@stoneleaf.us>
	<4A96C5A2.4020307@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <4A96C794.9090209@stoneleaf.us>

MRAB wrote:
> Ethan Furman wrote:
> 
>> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>
>>> A mistake is still a mistake even if it shared with others.
>>>
>>> Treating its with a lead zero as octal was a design error when it was 
>>> first thought up 
>>
>>
>> [snippage]
>>
>> I have to disagree with you on this one.  The computing world was 
>> vastly different when that design decision was made.  Space was at a 
>> premium, programmers were not touch-typists, every character had to 
>> count, and why in the world would somebody who had to use papertape or 
>> punch cards add a lead zero without a *real* good reason?  I submit 
>> that that real good reason was to specify an octal literal, and not a 
>> decimal literal.
>>
>> Now many many years have passed, much has changed, and a leading zero 
>> (like so much else) no longer makes the sense in once did -- 
>> especially in a very wide-spread and general purpose language like 
>> Python.  That does not mean it was not a very good decision at the time.
>>
> I think that it although it might have been reasonable when C was
> invented, it wasn't a good idea when Python was invented.

Very good point.  I was thinking Steven was talking about the earliest 
case, as opposed to the earliest Python case.  My apologies if I 
misunderstood.

~Ethan~


From bakes at ymail.com  Thu Aug 27 14:15:59 2009
From: bakes at ymail.com (Bakes)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 11:15:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: regexp help
Message-ID: <4e548d26-f3c9-46b8-a82a-c012607e2ff8@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

If I were using the code:

(?P[0-9]+)

to get an integer between 0 and 9, how would I allow it to register
negative integers as well?


From iurisilvio at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 14:28:09 2009
From: iurisilvio at gmail.com (Iuri)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 15:28:09 -0300
Subject: regexp help
In-Reply-To: <4e548d26-f3c9-46b8-a82a-c012607e2ff8@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
References: <4e548d26-f3c9-46b8-a82a-c012607e2ff8@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <789aac5a0908271128j43b5cf93se3afe2a7477ecc5e@mail.gmail.com>

You can use r"[+-]?\d+" to get positive and negative integers.

It returns true to these strings: "+123", "-123", "123"



On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 3:15 PM, Bakes  wrote:

> If I were using the code:
>
> (?P[0-9]+)
>
> to get an integer between 0 and 9, how would I allow it to register
> negative integers as well?
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Thu Aug 27 14:35:22 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 11:35:22 -0700
Subject: Object Reference question
In-Reply-To: <9feee13c-117e-4806-b238-e4152a68adfb@18g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
References: <2dcf41c3-6623-48d9-bb74-97f753088479@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<9feee13c-117e-4806-b238-e4152a68adfb@18g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A96D1EA.7030002@stoneleaf.us>

josef wrote:
> Thanks to everyone who responded.
> 
> I will be going with some sort of a = MyClass(name = 'a') format. It's
> the Python way.
> 
> For me, it was very hard to accept that EVERYTHING is an object
> reference. And that there are no object reference names, just string
> entries in dictionaries. But I think it all makes sense now.
> 
> Thanks again,
> 
> Josef

My apologies if I missed it, but what *exactly* are you planning on 
doing with your 'name' attribute?  From the posts I've seen so far, I 
think you are only setting yourself up for failure.

~Ethan~



From dickinsm at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 14:48:11 2009
From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 11:48:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python on Crays
References:  
	<1f5c81d8-4f79-4eea-b1bd-af48ab9ddc82@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: <9e853de8-3183-402f-ab11-c0fad2a2fb9b@d4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 25, 11:34?pm, Carrie Farberow  wrote:
> Ok, here are links to word documents outlining the commands I executed as well as the make.log file and the make_install.log file
> [links snipped]

So from the output of make, it looks as though none of the
modules specified in the Modules/Setup file is being built
at all on your system.  So not just unicodedata, but the
math, cmath, array, itertools modules and more are
missing from your build.

You can check this by running Python:  after the make step
finishes, you should have a working Python executable called
'python' in the current directory;  if you start it up and
then type 'import math' at the '>>>' prompt, I'm guessing
you'll get an error message that looks something like:

ImportError: No module named math

I don't have much idea why those modules aren't being built;
I tried imitating the relevant parts of your instructions
(to the degree that they make sense on my non-Cray system)
without any problems.

Anyway, I agree that issue1594809 doesn't look so relevant;
the only common factor is that in both cases Python is
failing to find the unicodedata module;  but in that issue
the unicodedata module is present but doesn't get found
because the paths are messed up, while in your case the
unicodedata module isn't being built at all.

Suggestions:

(1) double check that you've uncommented the appropriate lines
in the Modules/Setup file.  E.g., after the configure step, there's
a line in Modules/Setup that looks like:

#unicodedata unicodedata.c    # static Unicode character database

that leading '#' should be removed so that it looks like:

unicodedata unicodedata.c    # static Unicode character database

and similarly for the other modules in that section.
Make sure that you're editing the Modules/Setup file
*after* the configure step and *before* the make step.

(2) Find a local Unix/Python guru and ask him/her to
help out.  These sorts of problems are generally much
easier to figure out when you've got direct access to
the machine.

Sorry I can't be more help than this.

--
Mark


From enleverLesX_XXmcX at XmclavXeauX.com.invalid  Thu Aug 27 14:57:38 2009
From: enleverLesX_XXmcX at XmclavXeauX.com.invalid (Michel Claveau - MVP)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 20:57:38 +0200
Subject: Learning Python advanced features
References: <4a967bd6$0$19301$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4a96d723$0$12655$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr>

Bonsoir ! 

Tu aurais peut-?tre d? r?pondre en anglais (pour certains, "advanced features", c'est mieux que "concepts sophistiqu?s").

@+

MCI


From james.harris.1 at googlemail.com  Thu Aug 27 15:06:19 2009
From: james.harris.1 at googlemail.com (James Harris)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 12:06:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References:  
	<87d46ok948.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	 
	<02a0b085$0$30337$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On 27 Aug, 18:31, Ethan Furman  wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> > A mistake is still a mistake even if it shared with others.
>
> > Treating its with a lead zero as octal was a design error when it was
> > first thought up
>
> [snippage]
>
> I have to disagree with you on this one. ?The computing world was vastly
> different when that design decision was made. ?Space was at a premium,
> programmers were not touch-typists, every character had to count, and
> why in the world would somebody who had to use papertape or punch cards
> add a lead zero without a *real* good reason? ?I submit that that real
> good reason was to specify an octal literal, and not a decimal literal.

Nice idea. Characters were expensive but not that expensive - even
then. One extra character to make the octal prefix 0t or 0q or
something could have been used. Check out the History heading at

  http://sundry.wikispaces.com/octal-zero-prefix

Note how B migrated away from both BCPL's octal and its hex notation.

  # and #x in BCPL became
  0 and 0x in B

James


From vicente.soler at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 15:06:53 2009
From: vicente.soler at gmail.com (vsoler)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 12:06:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Question on the "csv" library
Message-ID: <055885e5-b2ee-4ca7-84d9-238034b8f21d@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

I am trying to read a csv file generated by excel.

Although I succeed in reading the file, the format that I get is not
suitable for me.

I've done:

>>> import csv
>>> spamReader = csv.reader(open('C:\\abc.csv', 'r'))

>>> print spamReader
<_csv.reader object at 0x01022E70>

>>> for row in spamReader:
	print row


['codigo;nombre;cantidad']
['a;qwe;1']
['b;asd;2']
['c;zxc;3']

My questions are:

1- Why using "print spamReader" I cannot see the data?
    I expected to see a list of lists, a kind of a matrix, but I get
nothing

2- Why are the rows in a single string?
   I expected a list of fields that, when text, would be delimited by
"
  To tell the truth, the file generated by excel does not contain the
strings delimited by ". Isn't it weird?

3- Is there anything I can do to have my data in a list of lists
structure? would another kind of data suit better my needs?

Thank you for your help

Vicente Soler


From fasteliteprogrammer at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 27 15:15:00 2009
From: fasteliteprogrammer at yahoo.com (Craig)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 12:15:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python on Crays
In-Reply-To: <9e853de8-3183-402f-ab11-c0fad2a2fb9b@d4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <645368.38785.qm@web36503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Who the one from wisconsin and did you try the python group in madison maybe they can help.

Well i from madison are and i just a newbie with python.What OS you useing?

--- On Thu, 8/27/09, Mark Dickinson  wrote:

> From: Mark Dickinson 
> Subject: Re: Python on Crays
> To: python-list at python.org
> Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 1:48 PM
> On Aug 25, 11:34?pm, Carrie Farberow
> 
> wrote:
> > Ok, here are links to word documents outlining the
> commands I executed as well as the make.log file and the
> make_install.log file
> > [links snipped]
> 
> So from the output of make, it looks as though none of the
> modules specified in the Modules/Setup file is being built
> at all on your system.? So not just unicodedata, but
> the
> math, cmath, array, itertools modules and more are
> missing from your build.
> 
> You can check this by running Python:? after the make
> step
> finishes, you should have a working Python executable
> called
> 'python' in the current directory;? if you start it up
> and
> then type 'import math' at the '>>>' prompt, I'm
> guessing
> you'll get an error message that looks something like:
> 
> ImportError: No module named math
> 
> I don't have much idea why those modules aren't being
> built;
> I tried imitating the relevant parts of your instructions
> (to the degree that they make sense on my non-Cray system)
> without any problems.
> 
> Anyway, I agree that issue1594809 doesn't look so
> relevant;
> the only common factor is that in both cases Python is
> failing to find the unicodedata module;? but in that
> issue
> the unicodedata module is present but doesn't get found
> because the paths are messed up, while in your case the
> unicodedata module isn't being built at all.
> 
> Suggestions:
> 
> (1) double check that you've uncommented the appropriate
> lines
> in the Modules/Setup file.? E.g., after the configure
> step, there's
> a line in Modules/Setup that looks like:
> 
> #unicodedata unicodedata.c? ? # static Unicode
> character database
> 
> that leading '#' should be removed so that it looks like:
> 
> unicodedata unicodedata.c? ? # static Unicode
> character database
> 
> and similarly for the other modules in that section.
> Make sure that you're editing the Modules/Setup file
> *after* the configure step and *before* the make step.
> 
> (2) Find a local Unix/Python guru and ask him/her to
> help out.? These sorts of problems are generally much
> easier to figure out when you've got direct access to
> the machine.
> 
> Sorry I can't be more help than this.
> 
> --
> Mark
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 


      


From gert.cuykens at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 15:18:28 2009
From: gert.cuykens at gmail.com (gert)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 12:18:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How does the file.seek() work ?
References: <2feaaf6c-d723-4843-a9e5-271d00187180@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	
	<1532ff09-f892-44c8-8206-10b3c2d16050@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>
	<40093737-2ff1-4527-a2ea-a016ee526463@k30g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 26, 7:28?pm, gert  wrote:
> On Aug 26, 12:46?am, Graham Dumpleton 
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Aug 25, 5:37?am, Tim Chase  wrote:
>
> > > > I want the file pointer set to 100 and overwrite everything from there
> > > [snip]
> > > > def application(environ, response):
> > > > ? ? query=os.path.join(os.path.dirname(__file__),'teeeeeeeeeemp')
> > > > ? ? range=environ.get('HTTP_RANGE','bytes=0-').replace
> > > > ('bytes=','').split(',')
> > > > ? ? offset=[]
> > > > ? ? for r in range: offset.append(r.split('-'))
> > > > ? ? with open(query,'w+') as f:
> > > > ? ? ? ? ?f.seek(int(offset[0][0]))
> > > > ? ? ? ? ?while True:
> > > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?chunk=environ['wsgi.input'].read(8192).decode('latin1')
> > > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?if not chunk: break
> > > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?f.write(chunk)
> > > > ? ? f=open(query)
> > > > ? ? l=str(os.fstat(f.fileno()).st_size)
> > > > ? ? response('200 OK', [('Content-Type', 'text/plain'), ('Content-
> > > > Length', str(len(l)))])
> > > > ? ? return [l]
>
> > > A couple items of note:
>
> > > - you don't open the file in binary mode -- seek is more reliable
> > > in binary mode :)
>
> > If my memory is right, if file is opened in binary mode, also wouldn't
> > need to be decoding the WSGI input stream as latin-1 to get a string.
> > Instead can just deal with bytes and write bytes to file.
>
> > Graham
>
> > > - if you want to lop off the rest of the file, use f.truncate()
>
> > > An example:
>
> > > # create the initial file
> > > ?>>> f = file('zzz.zzz', 'wb+')
> > > ?>>> f.write('abcdefghijklmnop')
> > > ?>>> f.close()
>
> > > ?>>> f = file('zzz.zzz', 'ab+')
> > > ?>>> f.read() # show the existing content
> > > 'abcdefghijklmnop'
> > > ?>>> f.seek(5) # seek to the desired offset
> > > ?>>> f.truncate() # throw away everything after here
> > > ?>>> f.write('zyx') # write the new data at pos=5
> > > ?>>> f.close()
>
> > > # demonstrate that it worked
> > > ?>>> f = file('zzz.zzz', 'rb')
> > > ?>>> f.read()
> > > 'abcdezyx'
> > > ?>>> f.close()
>
> > > > also why must I open the file a second time to know how big it is ?
>
> > > Likely the output has been buffered. ?You can try using
>
> > > ? ?f.flush() # write all the data to the disk first
> > > ? ?size = os.fstat(f.fileno()).st_size
>
> > > which seems to do the trick for me.
> > > -tkc
>
> Works thanks
>
> curl -C 10 -T upload2.wsgihttp://192.168.2.17/appwsgi/wsgi/upload2.wsgi
> --header "Transfer-Encoding: chunked" -v
>
> import os
>
> def application(environ, response):
> ? ? #query=environ.get['QUERY_STRING']
> ? ? #print (query, file=environ['wsgi.errors'])
> ? ? query=os.path.join(os.path.dirname(__file__),'teeeeeeeeeemp')
> ? ? range=environ.get('HTTP_CONTENT_RANGE','bytes 0-').replace('bytes
> ','').split('/')[0].split(',')
> ? ? offset=[]
> ? ? for r in range: offset.append(r.split('-'))
> ? ? with open(query,'rb+') as f:
> ? ? ? ? ?f.seek(int(offset[0][0]))
> ? ? ? ? ?if environ['REQUEST_METHOD']=='PUT':
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?f.truncate()
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?while True:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?chunk=environ['wsgi.input'].read(8192)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?if not chunk: break
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?f.write(chunk)
> ? ? ? ? ?f.flush()
> ? ? ? ? ?l=str(os.fstat(f.fileno()).st_size)
> ? ? response('200 OK', [('Content-Type', 'text/plain'), ('Content-
> Length', str(len(l)))])
> ? ? return [l]

Update it works on mod_wsgi but not on wsgiref.simple_server

C:\Users\gert\Desktop\hg\appwsgi\wsgi>curl -T upload2.wsgi
http://localhost/appwsgi/wsgi/upload2.wsg
i -v
* About to connect() to localhost port 80 (#0)
*   Trying 127.0.0.1... connected
* Connected to localhost (127.0.0.1) port 80 (#0)
> PUT /appwsgi/wsgi/upload2.wsgi HTTP/1.1
> User-Agent: curl/7.19.4 (amd64-pc-win32) libcurl/7.19.4 OpenSSL/0.9.8j zlib/1.2.3
> Host: localhost
> Accept: */*
> Content-Length: 869
> Expect: 100-continue
>
* Done waiting for 100-continue

I not getting 100-continues ?


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Thu Aug 27 15:22:45 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 12:22:45 -0700
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<87d46ok948.fsf@benfinney.id.au>	
	<02a0b085$0$30337$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	
	
Message-ID: <4A96DD05.8020603@stoneleaf.us>

James Harris wrote:
> On 27 Aug, 18:31, Ethan Furman  wrote:
> 
> 
>>Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
> 
>>>A mistake is still a mistake even if it shared with others.
>>
>>>Treating its with a lead zero as octal was a design error when it was
>>>first thought up
>>
>>[snippage]
>>
>>I have to disagree with you on this one.  The computing world was vastly
>>different when that design decision was made.  Space was at a premium,
>>programmers were not touch-typists, every character had to count, and
>>why in the world would somebody who had to use papertape or punch cards
>>add a lead zero without a *real* good reason?  I submit that that real
>>good reason was to specify an octal literal, and not a decimal literal.
> 
> 
> Nice idea. Characters were expensive but not that expensive - even
> then. One extra character to make the octal prefix 0t or 0q or
> something could have been used. Check out the History heading at
> 
>   http://sundry.wikispaces.com/octal-zero-prefix
> 
> Note how B migrated away from both BCPL's octal and its hex notation.
> 
>   # and #x in BCPL became
>   0 and 0x in B
> 
> James

Nice link.

I suspect that as much as anything is was abbreviate as much as 
possible.  In unix we have copy as cp, list as ls move as mv, etc, etc.
Different mind-set also when designing for yourself or a small group, 
versus thousands and thousands.

I am in agreement that Python should not have a leading 0 for octal, as 
there are big inconsistencies with how it's treated.  Visually, I would 
have preferred a prefix of 0c, but I understand it should be consistent 
with the string specifier of o.  Oh well, win some, lose some.

~Ethan~


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Thu Aug 27 15:26:04 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 21:26:04 +0200
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal
	notation
References: 
	
	
	
	<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com>
	
	
	
	
	<02a31f91$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<44bcb727-0885-4d4f-9c11-ca60a39b0d91@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<02a3e1e2$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<02a53d89$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<8d25833e-8008-42e9-ad24-10ddd4f6cbef@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Mensanator  (M) wrote:

>M> On Aug 26, 4:59?pm, Piet van Oostrum  wrote:
>>> >>>>> Mensanator  (M) wrote:
>>> >M> That's my point. Since the common usage of "binary" is for
>>> >M> Standard Positional Number System of Radix 2, it follows
>>> >M> that "unary" is the common usage for Standard Positional
>>> >M> Number System of Radix 1. That's VERY confusing since such
>>> >M> a system is undefined. Remember, common usage does not
>>> >M> necessarily properly define things. Saying simply "unary"
>>> >M> sounds like you're extending common usage beyond its proper
>>> >M> boundaries.
>>> 
>>> But the customary meaning of `unary' is the tally system, as a radix
>>> system wouldn't make sense. I don't know when this term came into use
>>> but I have known it for a long time.

>M> Ok, I'll accept that and in the same breath say such common usage
>M> is stupid. I, for one, have never heard such usage and would never
>M> use "unary" in the same breath as "decimal, octal, binary" even if
>M> I had.

As I see it, unary just means that there is one symbol. Binary just
means that there are two symbols, etc.

With unary, the only sensible numerical interpretation is to count the
number of occurrences of that symbol, or if you also want to have the
number 0, the number of occurrences - 1.

With binary and higher you can come up with more numerical
interpretations but the most efficient one is the radix interpretation
(for different values of `efficient'). I doubt that there are many other
interpretations that you can call sensible. Therefore we immediately
think of a radix system when we talk about binary, octal, decimal etc.
But the word `binary' itself doesn't imply that.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Thu Aug 27 15:29:15 2009
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 15:29:15 -0400
Subject: Question on the "csv" library
In-Reply-To: <055885e5-b2ee-4ca7-84d9-238034b8f21d@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <055885e5-b2ee-4ca7-84d9-238034b8f21d@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 3:06 PM, vsoler  wrote:
>
> I am trying to read a csv file generated by excel.
>
> Although I succeed in reading the file, the format that I get is not
> suitable for me.
>
> I've done:
>
> >>> import csv
> >>> spamReader = csv.reader(open('C:\\abc.csv', 'r'))
>
> >>> print spamReader
> <_csv.reader object at 0x01022E70>
>
> >>> for row in spamReader:
> ? ? ? ?print row
>
>
> ['codigo;nombre;cantidad']
> ['a;qwe;1']
> ['b;asd;2']
> ['c;zxc;3']
>
> My questions are:
>
> 1- Why using "print spamReader" I cannot see the data?
> ? ?I expected to see a list of lists, a kind of a matrix, but I get
> nothing

It's because csv.reader does the same thing open does. It returns an
iterable, not a list. The file is opened but not processed until you
iterate through it. You cannot see the data when you do print
spamReader because of this and because the csv reader object does
define a __str__ method.

>
> 2- Why are the rows in a single string?
> ? I expected a list of fields that, when text, would be delimited by
> "
> ?To tell the truth, the file generated by excel does not contain the
> strings delimited by ". Isn't it weird?

CSV stands for comma separated variables. It actually has nothing to
do with the quotes- they're just used in case an element has a comma
in it, so the reader knows it's a string literal and not a separate
column. Your comma separated variable worksheet seems to be semicolon
separated. That's why the reader isn't splitting it.

>
> 3- Is there anything I can do to have my data in a list of lists
> structure? would another kind of data suit better my needs?
>
just do a list comprehension
sheet = [row for row in spamReader]


> Thank you for your help
>
> Vicente Soler
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Thu Aug 27 15:40:28 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 21:40:28 +0200
Subject: TypeError: _getfullpathname() argument 1 must be (buffer
	overflow), not str in windows xp, while making tarfile
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Ryniek90  (R) wrote:

>R> Hahah right. My fault. Must remember to read documentation so many times
>R> until I find the solution.  Thanks, now works fine.  :-)

And, by the way, how come the traceback refers to
File "backuper.py", line 197, in 
while the posted code has only 188 lines?
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From usenot at geekmail.INVALID  Thu Aug 27 15:42:40 2009
From: usenot at geekmail.INVALID (Andreas Waldenburger)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 21:42:40 +0200
Subject: Question on the "csv" library
References: <055885e5-b2ee-4ca7-84d9-238034b8f21d@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20090827213628.180142f6@geekmail.INVALID>
Message-ID: <20090827214240.70aeb792@geekmail.INVALID>

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 21:36:28 +0200 Andreas Waldenburger
 wrote:

> [snip]
>
> Might I humbly suggest
> 
> >>> sheet = list(spamReader)  # ?
> 

Oh, and while I'm humbly suggesting:

spam_reader instead of spamReader or SpamReader or SpamrEadeR or
suchlike. Caps are "reserved" for classes.

Not a necessity, of course. But it's the dialect around these parts.


/W

-- 
INVALID? DE!



From farberow at wisc.edu  Thu Aug 27 15:53:53 2009
From: farberow at wisc.edu (Carrie Farberow)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 14:53:53 -0500
Subject: Python on Crays
In-Reply-To: <645368.38785.qm@web36503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <9e853de8-3183-402f-ab11-c0fad2a2fb9b@d4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	<645368.38785.qm@web36503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6f30fc8f1d449.4a969e01@wiscmail.wisc.edu>

I am from Wisconsin -- is there a python group here?  Do you have any contact info.?

The compute node operating system is Compute Node Linux (CNL).

Carrie

----- Original Message -----
From: Craig 
Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009 2:15 pm
Subject: Re: Python on Crays
To: python-list at python.org, Mark Dickinson 


> Who the one from wisconsin and did you try the python group in madison 
> maybe they can help.
>  
>  Well i from madison are and i just a newbie with python.What OS you useing?
>  
>  --- On Thu, 8/27/09, Mark Dickinson  wrote:
>  
>  > From: Mark Dickinson 
>  > Subject: Re: Python on Crays
>  > To: python-list at python.org
>  > Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 1:48 PM
>  > On Aug 25, 11:34?pm, Carrie Farberow
>  > 
>  > wrote:
>  > > Ok, here are links to word documents outlining the
>  > commands I executed as well as the make.log file and the
>  > make_install.log file
>  > > [links snipped]
>  > 
>  > So from the output of make, it looks as though none of the
>  > modules specified in the Modules/Setup file is being built
>  > at all on your system.? So not just unicodedata, but
>  > the
>  > math, cmath, array, itertools modules and more are
>  > missing from your build.
>  > 
>  > You can check this by running Python:? after the make
>  > step
>  > finishes, you should have a working Python executable
>  > called
>  > 'python' in the current directory;? if you start it up
>  > and
>  > then type 'import math' at the '>>>' prompt, I'm
>  > guessing
>  > you'll get an error message that looks something like:
>  > 
>  > ImportError: No module named math
>  > 
>  > I don't have much idea why those modules aren't being
>  > built;
>  > I tried imitating the relevant parts of your instructions
>  > (to the degree that they make sense on my non-Cray system)
>  > without any problems.
>  > 
>  > Anyway, I agree that issue1594809 doesn't look so
>  > relevant;
>  > the only common factor is that in both cases Python is
>  > failing to find the unicodedata module;? but in that
>  > issue
>  > the unicodedata module is present but doesn't get found
>  > because the paths are messed up, while in your case the
>  > unicodedata module isn't being built at all.
>  > 
>  > Suggestions:
>  > 
>  > (1) double check that you've uncommented the appropriate
>  > lines
>  > in the Modules/Setup file.? E.g., after the configure
>  > step, there's
>  > a line in Modules/Setup that looks like:
>  > 
>  > #unicodedata unicodedata.c? ? # static Unicode
>  > character database
>  > 
>  > that leading '#' should be removed so that it looks like:
>  > 
>  > unicodedata unicodedata.c? ? # static Unicode
>  > character database
>  > 
>  > and similarly for the other modules in that section.
>  > Make sure that you're editing the Modules/Setup file
>  > *after* the configure step and *before* the make step.
>  > 
>  > (2) Find a local Unix/Python guru and ask him/her to
>  > help out.? These sorts of problems are generally much
>  > easier to figure out when you've got direct access to
>  > the machine.
>  > 
>  > Sorry I can't be more help than this.
>  > 
>  > --
>  > Mark
>  > -- 
>  > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>  > 
>  
>  
>        
>  -- 
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>  


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Thu Aug 27 16:07:51 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:07:51 +0200
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

>>>>> kj  (k) wrote:

>k> No, the fact() function here represents an internal "helper"
>k> function.  It is meant to be called only once to help initialize
>k> a class variable that would be inconvenient to initialize otherwise;
>k> this helper function is not meant to be called from outside the
>k> class statement.  Granted, in the example I gave, the "helper"
>k> function (factorial) is a bit silly, but that was just intended as
>k> a simple and familiar example of a recursive function.  The actual
>k> function that motivated this post would be considerably more
>k> difficult to explain and would have obscured the point of the post.

Classes don't have helper functions; they have methods. Instance
methods, static methods or class methods. Your's isn't either of these.
Methods are to be called like `something.method(...)'.

-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From vicente.soler at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 16:12:07 2009
From: vicente.soler at gmail.com (vsoler)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 13:12:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Question on the "csv" library
References: <055885e5-b2ee-4ca7-84d9-238034b8f21d@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20090827213628.180142f6@geekmail.INVALID> 
	<20090827214240.70aeb792@geekmail.INVALID>
Message-ID: <4587853e-5aaa-4be0-af87-d758481c6077@r42g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 27, 9:42?pm, Andreas Waldenburger 
wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 21:36:28 +0200 Andreas Waldenburger
>
>  wrote:
> > [snip]
>
> > Might I humbly suggest
>
> > >>> sheet = list(spamReader) ?# ?
>
> Oh, and while I'm humbly suggesting:
>
> spam_reader instead of spamReader or SpamReader or SpamrEadeR or
> suchlike. Caps are "reserved" for classes.
>
> Not a necessity, of course. But it's the dialect around these parts.
>
> /W
>
> --
> INVALID? DE!

Thank you for your answers. Let me however make some comments:

1- the csv file was generated with Excel 2007; no prompts for what the
separator should be; Excel has used ";" by default, without asking
anything

2- about capitalisation, I used the var "spamReader" because I just
copy/pasted from the official python site:

      http://docs.python.org/library/csv.html

3- when I try

>>> sheet = [row for row in spamReader]
>>> print sheet
[]

all I get is an empty list; something seems not to be working properly

Same result list: I get an empty list

     sheet = list(spamReader)

Thank you again for your help, which is highly appreciated.

Vicente Soler


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Aug 27 16:22:31 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 16:22:31 -0400
Subject: [OT] How do I reply to a thread by sending a message to
	python-list@python.org
In-Reply-To: 
References: <20090827073102.293C91DF2@ctb-mesg8.saix.net>	<4A964C3B.8090206@ieee.org>
	
	
Message-ID: 

David House wrote:
> 2009/8/27 Terry Reedy :
>> reply-all may send duplicate messages to the author. Not sure of this list.
> 
> I'm fairly sure Mailman deals with that.

Nope. I got a duplicate sent to my mailbox, which I hate.





From ppearson at nowhere.invalid  Thu Aug 27 16:31:01 2009
From: ppearson at nowhere.invalid (Peter Pearson)
Date: 27 Aug 2009 20:31:01 GMT
Subject: regexp help
References: <4e548d26-f3c9-46b8-a82a-c012607e2ff8@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7fo8o5F2i2o8tU1@mid.individual.net>

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 11:15:59 -0700 (PDT), Bakes  wrote:
> If I were using the code:
>
> (?P[0-9]+)
>
> to get an integer between 0 and 9, how would I allow it to register
> negative integers as well?

(?P-?[0-9]+)

-- 
To email me, substitute nowhere->spamcop, invalid->net.


From usenot at geekmail.INVALID  Thu Aug 27 16:37:26 2009
From: usenot at geekmail.INVALID (Andreas Waldenburger)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:37:26 +0200
Subject: Question on the "csv" library
References: <055885e5-b2ee-4ca7-84d9-238034b8f21d@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20090827213628.180142f6@geekmail.INVALID>
	<20090827214240.70aeb792@geekmail.INVALID>
	<4587853e-5aaa-4be0-af87-d758481c6077@r42g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20090827223726.23f99ef6@geekmail.INVALID>

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 13:12:07 -0700 (PDT) vsoler
 wrote:

> On Aug 27, 9:42?pm, Andreas Waldenburger 
> wrote:
> 
> [snip what I wrote]
> 
> Thank you for your answers. Let me however make some comments:
> 
> 1- the csv file was generated with Excel 2007; no prompts for what the
> separator should be; Excel has used ";" by default, without asking
> anything
> 

Apparently it's possible, but it's a kludge

http://astrochimp.com/2005/12/20/export-csv-with-any-delimiter/comment-page-1/

Anyways, ...


> 2- about capitalisation, I used the var "spamReader" because I just
> copy/pasted from the official python site:
> 
>       http://docs.python.org/library/csv.html
> 
Oh, switcheroo!

Well, those hypocrites!


> 3- when I try
> 
> >>> sheet = [row for row in spamReader]
> >>> print sheet
> []
> 
> all I get is an empty list; something seems not to be working properly
> 
> Same result list: I get an empty list
> 
>      sheet = list(spamReader)
> 
> Thank you again for your help, which is highly appreciated.
> 

I'm assuming you do that after you've iterated over the file before?
Because it did work in a previous post of yours.

Here's the deal: When you iterate over a file (or read from it in any
other manner) you "advance" in the file. After iteration, you're at the
end, of course. So iterating again yields silch.

Hmm ... don't know how that translates to a CSVReader. But I postulate
that it'l work on a fresh run.


/W



-- 
INVALID? DE!



From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Thu Aug 27 16:42:18 2009
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 13:42:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Does Class implements Interface?
References: <800d9226-6bbc-447e-a171-83777a9634b8@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3e18a803-4445-4dcf-8d8f-7661fd46ab93@y4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 27, 6:16?am, "Emanuele D'Arrigo"  wrote:
> Greetings everybody,
>
> let's say I have a Class C and I'd like to verify if it implements
> Interface I. If I is available to me as a class object I can use
> issubclass(C, I) and I can at least verify that I is a superclass of
> C. There are a couple of issues with this approach however:
>
> 1) C might override not just I's methods code but also I's methods
> signatures, effectively changing the interface.
> 2) What if I is -not- available to me as the superclass of C but as a
> description of the interface, i.e. as an IDL(*) file?
>
> Are there resources such as tools, recipes, documents or strategies
> that could help me deal with these issues? I've already looked into
> the ABC module and the zope.interface. I'm just fishing for more
> things to look at.
>

Have you heard of duck typing?

Ignore all those things and rely on human (aka natural language)
documentation. That is, if you want to see if a class will work for an
interface, go read the docs on the interface (or rather, what the
function expects the interface to be) and what the class provides and
see if they fit.



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Aug 27 16:44:17 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 21:44:17 +0100
Subject: Question on the "csv" library
In-Reply-To: <4587853e-5aaa-4be0-af87-d758481c6077@r42g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
References: <055885e5-b2ee-4ca7-84d9-238034b8f21d@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>		<20090827213628.180142f6@geekmail.INVALID>
	<20090827214240.70aeb792@geekmail.INVALID>
	<4587853e-5aaa-4be0-af87-d758481c6077@r42g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

vsoler wrote:
> On Aug 27, 9:42 pm, Andreas Waldenburger 
> wrote:
>> On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 21:36:28 +0200 Andreas Waldenburger
>>
>>  wrote:
>>> [snip]
>>> Might I humbly suggest
>>>>>> sheet = list(spamReader)  # ?
>> Oh, and while I'm humbly suggesting:
>>
>> spam_reader instead of spamReader or SpamReader or SpamrEadeR or
>> suchlike. Caps are "reserved" for classes.
>>
>> Not a necessity, of course. But it's the dialect around these parts.
>>
>> /W
>>
>> --
>> INVALID? DE!
> 
> Thank you for your answers. Let me however make some comments:
> 
> 1- the csv file was generated with Excel 2007; no prompts for what the
> separator should be; Excel has used ";" by default, without asking
> anything
I find this difficult to believe, but assuming that you are correct then 
use the delimiter=';' argument in the call to csv.reader.  See the csv 
module documentation section "Dialects and Formatting Parameters" for 
more information.
> 
> 2- about capitalisation, I used the var "spamReader" because I just
> copy/pasted from the official python site:
> 
>       http://docs.python.org/library/csv.html
> 
> 3- when I try
> 
>>>> sheet = [row for row in spamReader]
>>>> print sheet
> []
> 
> all I get is an empty list; something seems not to be working properly
> 
> Same result list: I get an empty list
> 
>      sheet = list(spamReader)
> 
> Thank you again for your help, which is highly appreciated.
> 
> Vicente Soler


-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Thu Aug 27 16:44:27 2009
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 13:44:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Learning Python advanced features
References: <4a967864$0$15193$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <6b1a2aae-fd3d-40a8-9350-89a8661a6d4a@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 27, 5:13?am, jvpic  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Learning Python, I understand the mechanism of : closure, __new__,
> descriptors, decorators and __metaclass__, but I interrogate myself on
> the interest of those technics ?
>
> May somebody explain me the interest ?
>

I assume you are asking, "Why do these features exist? What makes them
useful? When would I use them?"

For that, you should re-read the documentation and discussion
surrounding them. The short answer is that the above makes your job,
as a programmer easier. It's easier because you have to write less
code, read less code, and your code has fewer bugs.


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Aug 27 16:57:44 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 16:57:44 -0400
Subject: [OT] How do I reply to a thread by sending a message to
	python-list@python.org
In-Reply-To: 
References: <20090827073102.293C91DF2@ctb-mesg8.saix.net>	<4A964C3B.8090206@ieee.org>		
	
Message-ID: 

Terry Reedy wrote:
> David House wrote:
>> 2009/8/27 Terry Reedy :
>>> reply-all may send duplicate messages to the author. Not sure of this 
>>> list.
>>
>> I'm fairly sure Mailman deals with that.
> 
> Nope. I got a duplicate sent to my mailbox, which I hate.

In particular, because there is no indication that it is an exact 
duplicate of what I will also find on the list itself. Please use reply 
instead of reply-all.



From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Aug 27 17:05:05 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 27 Aug 2009 14:05:05 -0700
Subject: Python on the Web
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
Phil   wrote:
>
>My interest in Python 3.1 was actually to develop a framework. Again,
>I can feel the flames. :) I understand there are enough frameworks but
>I actually have no applications that I wish to develop. I enjoy
>developing these kinds of things from scratch as a learning
>experience.

Well, there's a standard joke that just as people learning Scheme write
a new language (following SICP), people learning Python write a new web
framework.  That's why there are so many of them.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I support family values -- Addams family values" --www.nancybuttons.com


From nbdarvin at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 17:06:19 2009
From: nbdarvin at gmail.com (Darvin)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 14:06:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python Telnet client
Message-ID: <09ac1e4e-2c17-4174-9ff3-f07576532960@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>

Is there telnet client in python?
i want to write NetHack telnet GUI app)


From jakecjacobson at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 17:10:22 2009
From: jakecjacobson at gmail.com (jakecjacobson)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 14:10:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to unencode a string
Message-ID: <55f8f373-8e0a-4ca5-8deb-53c02e4d1137@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

This seems like a real simple newbie question but how can a person
unencode a string?  In Perl I use something like: "$part=~ s/\%([A-Fa-
f0-9]{2})/pack('C', hex($1))/seg;"

If I have a string like Word1%20Word2%20Word3 I want to get Word1
Word2 Word3.  Would also like to handle special characters like '",(){}
[] etc/


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Thu Aug 27 17:14:24 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 14:14:24 -0700
Subject: Python Telnet client
In-Reply-To: <09ac1e4e-2c17-4174-9ff3-f07576532960@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
References: <09ac1e4e-2c17-4174-9ff3-f07576532960@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908271414l78a79b4dm14de9d6ba359804e@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 2:06 PM, Darvin wrote:
> Is there telnet client in python?
> i want to write NetHack telnet GUI app)

http://docs.python.org/library/telnetlib.html

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Thu Aug 27 17:16:28 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 27 Aug 2009 14:16:28 -0700
Subject: [OT] How do I reply to a thread by sending a message to
	python-list@python.org
References: <20090827073102.293C91DF2@ctb-mesg8.saix.net>
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
Terry Reedy   wrote:
>David House wrote:
>> 2009/8/27 Terry Reedy :
>>>
>>> reply-all may send duplicate messages to the author. Not sure of
>>> this list.
>>
>> I'm fairly sure Mailman deals with that.
>
>Nope. I got a duplicate sent to my mailbox, which I hate.

More precisely, there is a Mailman option per-list to suppress list
sending of posts for which you are cc'd.  I don't remember where, you
should be able to find it by poking around the Mailman interface (or
searching the docs).
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I support family values -- Addams family values" --www.nancybuttons.com


From exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  Thu Aug 27 17:18:41 2009
From: exarkun at twistedmatrix.com (exarkun at twistedmatrix.com)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 21:18:41 -0000
Subject: Python Telnet client
In-Reply-To: <09ac1e4e-2c17-4174-9ff3-f07576532960@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
References: <09ac1e4e-2c17-4174-9ff3-f07576532960@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20090827211841.7475.756920895.divmod.xquotient.59@localhost.localdomain>

On 09:06 pm, nbdarvin at gmail.com wrote:
>Is there telnet client in python?
>i want to write NetHack telnet GUI app)

The Python stdlib has a module named telnetlib which offers rudamentary 
telnet support.  Twisted includes twisted.conch.telnet which implements 
a much more complete telnet library.  Twisted also includes 
twisted.conch.insults which provides basic terminal control 
functionality (so you can tell what nethack is trying to do over your 
telnet connection).

Jean-Paul


From ryniek90 at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 17:21:25 2009
From: ryniek90 at gmail.com (Ryniek90)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 23:21:25 +0200
Subject: TypeError: _getfullpathname() argument 1 must be (buffer overflow),
	not str in windows xp, while making tarfile
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A96F8D5.5080709@gmail.com>

>
>>>>>> Ryniek90  (R) wrote:
>>>>>>             
>
>   
>> R> Hahah right. My fault. Must remember to read documentation so many times
>> R> until I find the solution.  Thanks, now works fine.  :-)
>>     
>
> And, by the way, how come the traceback refers to
> File "backuper.py", line 197, in 
> while the posted code has only 188 lines?
>   

Cuz my original code is bit longer - i've got some bookkeepings like
__author__, __version__ etc., just after module imports.


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 17:22:52 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 14:22:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: An assessment of Tkinter and IDLE
Message-ID: <55a0833d-3f1f-402a-8eb7-cb4b7861cce5@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

---------------------------------------------
Tkinter and IDLE Shortfalls
---------------------------------------------
*The following is an assessment of Tkinter as i have experienced it.
Even with all the problems i list below i strongly believe Tkinter is
a great starter GUI toolkit and we (the Python Community), must keep
and maintain this module for the foreseeable future.

*However, as my assessment will reveal, much needs to be done to
"freshen" up Tkinter and IDLE, and I am not just asking for someone to
fix these problems. I have already coded solutions for most of them
however, some of course still need work, and i would like to hear from
others on this subject too. So buckle your seat belts folks, cause
here we go...

---------------------------------------------
Python offical docs and Tkinter
---------------------------------------------
*The Python docs barely cover anything related to actual Tkinter
coding. At the minimum the Tkinter doc page should have a subpage for
all the widgets available --which is very small(approx 15) and each
subpage should list the available methods on that wiget. Here are two
great resources that really like from Fredrik Lundh and John
Shipman...

  http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/index.htm
  http://infohost.nmt.edu/tcc/help/pubs/tkinter/

...I must say that I prefer the latter written by John Shipman because
of the way he lists each widgets options in a nice table structure,
and then lists the methods below. And intersestingly enough, his
manual only weighs in at about 800kb completely uncommpressed and
unedited. I'll bet you a wooden nickel i can reduce it to around 500kb
for the official Python docs *wink*

*Sadly however neither of these great works is mentioned or linked in
the official docs Why?.

*I think a short-and-to-the-point reference, like the afore mentioned
along with a few links to full featured tuts would be a great addition
to the Tkinter section of the official docs and i would be happy to
help make this happen.

---------------------------------------------
from Tkinter import *
---------------------------------------------
*Too many noobs start out with the "from Tkinter import *" idiom,
unknowing that they are horribly polluting their namespace. I feel
that all (tkinter) code should follow the "import Tkinter as tk"
policy and never use "from Tkinter import *". To push this agenda i
propose all docs be modified so that no one should see such global
import blasphemy again. We should at least keep all example code in
the latter non-polluting form and frown heavily upon global imports in
Tkinter code or any code for that matter.

---------------------------------------------
Tkinter Constants
---------------------------------------------
*The Tkconstants module needs to be removed *yesterday* because i
think it reinforces sloppy coding styles. The main problem is with
subtle bugs that are created when someone rebinds one or more of the
constants, for example "W=20". At first i thought the constants were
great but I quickly found out the shortfalls of such a Utopian
approach . Since Tkinter allows strings to be passed-into widget
constructors, we should remove the TkConstants immediately and force
everyone to use strings instead...

 #-- instead of this --#
  w.pack(side=LEFT,fill=BOTH,anchor=W)

 #-- do this --#
  w.pack(side='left',fill='both',anchor='w')

The few extra keystrokes are well worth the effort!

---------------------------------------------
IDLE Shell
---------------------------------------------
*IDLE and Pyshell are great but have major flaws in design. One of my
biggest complaints is the shell's eight space indention which
completely bloats your screen! Another annoying fact is that the prompt
(>>>) is actually inside the text widget. This design is all wrong!
The prompt should be in another widget to the left of the text so it
never gets copied or pasted. Or at-least have the copy/paste action
remove the initial four spaces and the prompt, but i think a full
separation of "prompt" and "text" are the best solution. The following
ASCII art won't win me any awards, but it may covey my idea. "W1"
holds the prompt and "W2" is the actual text editor.

  <-------- W2 ----------->
 >>> | for x in range(10):     |
 ... |   print x               |
 ... |     for y in range(x):  |
 ... |       print y           |
     |1
     |2

And don't tell me about Geany or Pythonwin or emacs or vim or whatever
editor happens to float your boat. I know there are tons of great
editors out there but IDLE is most likely the first one a Pynoob will
use so it must be usable! IDLE and Tkinter  are what make Python a
stater language -- after the beautiful syntax of course :)

---------------------------------------------
IDLE Editor
---------------------------------------------
*On M$ windows pressing the MMB without a motion causes the selected
text to be pasted at the insertion cursor, and holding it repeats the
action very quickly! Since IDLE has no horizontal scroll bar you must
use MMB to scroll left-right. I am quite happy that there is no
horizontal scrollbar since using MMB is much quicker, but the text
pasting action always ruins my day :(. This pasting action is a real
PITA and a waste of good processor time. I know how to override it
with a hack in IDLE, but many newcomers won't and will probably get
frustrated by it so this must be either fixed by hard coding IDLE or
allowing a user to turn is off in the config options dialog.

*Something that always gets a Python IDLE noob is "open-bracket-syntax-
errors" in IDLE. When Python throws this type of error normally the
only clue you will get from IDLE is to see the last line highlighted.
However, the missing or misplaced bracket is usually no where near the
end of the script. IDLE can be easily fixed to show a much closer or
even exact location of the last open bracket.

*The Find dialog forgets the regexp string after finding a match, this
can be a real time waster especially if you typed in a long expression
and need to tweak it just a bit for a second search! if the "regexp"
check box is selected the dialog should not replace the contents of
the Dialog.entry with the texts' selection. (easy fix)

*The replace dialog seems buggy when doing a "replace+find". Sometimes
it will highlight the next match but sometimes the highlight will
immediately disappear so you can't be for sure what you may be
replacing with the next push of the button? (could be a conflict with
the colorizer)  Real aggravating! This seems to always happen when a
string is selected.

*One of my all time pet peeves with all text editors. Everybody repeat
after me...

"""NO TEXT EDITOR SHOULD EVER COPY AN EMPTY STRING TO THE
CLIPBOARD!!"""

...I can't tell you how many times I've had to re-copy some text
because i accidentally pressed  instead of ,
arggh! This bug needs to be fixed yesterday! Pressing  with
no active selection should sound the error bell, not copy "".

*Using the goto-line command should highlight the requested line.
Currently all that IDLE does is place the insertion cursor at the
start of the requested line which is completely useless. One more line
of code in the goto method would make this action more useful

---------------------------------------------
Tkinter Canvas
---------------------------------------------
*The Tkinter Canvas widget should return (X,Y) pairs when calling
canvas.coords(obj). The current implementation returns a flat array
that is pretty much useless outside of canvas calls. Of course one
could zip the coords into pairs, but it seems clumsy to call zip() on
2 LC's when Tkinter could, and should, do it for you.

*Canvas needs a canvas.rotate() method for polygons, lines -- (easy).

---------------------------------------------
Tkinter ComboBox -- where's Waldo?
---------------------------------------------
*As much as i hate to support anything related to M$, Tkinter needs an
M$ stlye combobox. Yes, I know Tix has combobox (*puke*), however
using it is like pulling teeth. I have coded up an far more elegant/
simple solution -- and yes, i know about the OptionMenu widget which
serves a useful purpose but is NOT a good replacement for a REAL M$
style combobox ;).

*For instance, ComboBoxes need values that the user can select from,
this is as universal as humans and oxygen. But sometimes you want to
give the user a detailed set of values in the dropdown listbox and
then insert an abbrieation of the value once selected, such as the
case with state names...

 New Mexico -> MN
  California -> CA
    Florida -> FL

...instead of the laborious and wasteful convention of overriding a
method to insert this value from a mapping each time why not just pass
a pointer to the mapping into the constructor and create a combobox
that actually knows how to walk and chew gum!

[Warning: puesdo code ahead!]

class ComboBox(master, values, etc..)
  def __init__(blahblahblah)
    self.values = values
    if type(values) == dict:
      self.values = values.keys())
    listbox.load(self.values)

  def onUserPick(self, arg):
    if type(self.values) == dict:
       self.entry.set(self.values[arg])
       return
    self.entry.set(arg)

---------------------------------------------
Tix In General
---------------------------------------------
*I am not a big fan of the Tix Module. The idea behind the widgets is
great, but using most of them is a nightmare on elm street with Jason
Voorhees in hot pursuit. I have hacked my own far more elegant
versions of the more useful Tix Widgets and i feel mine are less buggy
and more user friendly.  So i say lose Tix and go with my fix, or get
stuck with the Tix!

*Python is missing good docs for Tix. The only thing i can find is the
Tcl docs which are riddled with horribly cryptic tcl code.

---------------------------------------------
Tix NoteBook
---------------------------------------------
*The Tix.NoteBook widget has a bug. If you subclass Frame for your
toplevel window you can't create a notebook widget as a descendant of
the frame because it just blows chunks. The only way i have
successfully used the widget is by the noobish style...

  >>> import Tix
  >>> root = Tix.Tk()
  >>> notebook = Tix.NoteBook...blah
  >>> root.mainloop()

*Overall however i feel the IDLE "TabbedWidget" out-performs the
Tix.NoteBook by miles and is easier to use, although it does have a
few design problems that i have fixed. One of the most predominate
being the inability to see the tabs clearly. The selected tab should
"stand-out" from the others so a user can spot it quickly. Also there
is no reason to export TabSet class and this can clean up the code a
bit.

---------------------------------------------
Tix ComboBox
---------------------------------------------
*What is with that big ugly arrow? This widget is an exercise in
cruelty to humans, and thats all i will say about it!


---------------------------------------------
Final Thoughts
---------------------------------------------
Well, that is all i can remember for now. If you've made it this far
without losing your temper or your lunch well i am very surprised ;).
Anyway, give me some feedback on these ideas so maybe i can get
motivated to submit some patches/enhancements.

psst... help is welcome too ya'know :)


From kccnospam at glenevin.com  Thu Aug 27 17:37:54 2009
From: kccnospam at glenevin.com (seanacais)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 14:37:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: variables  of the class are not available as default values?
Message-ID: 

I'm working on a program where I wish to define the default value of a
method as a value that was set in __init__.  I get a compilation error
saying that self is undefined.

As always a code snippet helps :-)

class foo:
    def __init__(self, maxvalue):
        self.maxvalue = maxvalue
        self.value = 0

    def put(self, value=self.maxvalue):
        self.value = value

So if I call foo.put() the value is set to maxvalue but maxvalue can
be specified when I instantiate foo.

Explanations and/or workarounds much appreciated.



python test.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "test.py", line 1, in 
    class foo:
  File "test.py", line 6, in foo
    def put(self, value=self.maxvalue):
NameError: name 'self' is not defined


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Thu Aug 27 17:44:53 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 14:44:53 -0700
Subject: variables of the class are not available as default values?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908271444t67b2c820pbcd0f6c82acaa832@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 2:37 PM, seanacais wrote:
> I'm working on a program where I wish to define the default value of a
> method as a value that was set in __init__. ?I get a compilation error
> saying that self is undefined.
>
> As always a code snippet helps :-)
>
> class foo:
> ? ?def __init__(self, maxvalue):
> ? ? ? ?self.maxvalue = maxvalue
> ? ? ? ?self.value = 0
>
> ? ?def put(self, value=self.maxvalue):
> ? ? ? ?self.value = value
>
> So if I call foo.put() the value is set to maxvalue but maxvalue can
> be specified when I instantiate foo.

> python test.py
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "test.py", line 1, in 
>    class foo:
>  File "test.py", line 6, in foo
>    def put(self, value=self.maxvalue):
> NameError: name 'self' is not defined

> Explanations and/or workarounds much appreciated.

Workaround:

class foo:
    def __init__(self, maxvalue):
        self.maxvalue = maxvalue
        self.value = 0

    def put(self, value=None):
        self.value = self.value if value is None else value

Explanation:

Default values are only evaluated once, when the class is defined,
thus "self" is not defined at that point since the class is still
being defined when the method definition is executed and thus there
can be no instances yet anyway.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From andreengels at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 17:49:42 2009
From: andreengels at gmail.com (Andre Engels)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 23:49:42 +0200
Subject: variables of the class are not available as default values?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <6faf39c90908271449ic980813n56a9873913ee2af9@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 11:37 PM, seanacais wrote:
> I'm working on a program where I wish to define the default value of a
> method as a value that was set in __init__. ?I get a compilation error
> saying that self is undefined.
>
> As always a code snippet helps :-)
>
> class foo:
> ? ?def __init__(self, maxvalue):
> ? ? ? ?self.maxvalue = maxvalue
> ? ? ? ?self.value = 0
>
> ? ?def put(self, value=self.maxvalue):
> ? ? ? ?self.value = value
>
> So if I call foo.put() the value is set to maxvalue but maxvalue can
> be specified when I instantiate foo.
>
> Explanations and/or workarounds much appreciated.

Explanation: The default value is calculated at the time the function
is defined, not at the time it is called. And at that time there is no
instance for "self" to refer to.

Workaround:


class foo:
    def __init__(self, maxvalue):
        self.maxvalue = maxvalue
        self.value = 0

    def put(self, value=None):
        if value is None:
            self.value = self.maxvalue
        else:
            self.value = value


-- 
Andr? Engels, andreengels at gmail.com


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Thu Aug 27 17:49:50 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 14:49:50 -0700
Subject: How to unencode a string
In-Reply-To: <55f8f373-8e0a-4ca5-8deb-53c02e4d1137@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <55f8f373-8e0a-4ca5-8deb-53c02e4d1137@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908271449x1854d875ncdde2280b46ecdcc@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 2:10 PM, jakecjacobson wrote:
> This seems like a real simple newbie question but how can a person
> unencode a string? ?In Perl I use something like: "$part=~ s/\%([A-Fa-
> f0-9]{2})/pack('C', hex($1))/seg;"
>
> If I have a string like Word1%20Word2%20Word3 I want to get Word1
> Word2 Word3. ?Would also like to handle special characters like '",(){}
> [] etc/

Use the `uu` module together with the `stringio` module:
http://docs.python.org/library/uu.html
http://docs.python.org/library/stringio.html

Not sure about special character handling though.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From mdekauwe at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 17:51:08 2009
From: mdekauwe at gmail.com (Mart.)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 14:51:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: regexp help
References: <4e548d26-f3c9-46b8-a82a-c012607e2ff8@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <93ec85b5-907e-4504-968d-b14f1577debf@z38g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 27, 7:15?pm, Bakes  wrote:
> If I were using the code:
>
> (?P[0-9]+)
>
> to get an integer between 0 and 9, how would I allow it to register
> negative integers as well?

-?


From phily05 at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 18:02:41 2009
From: phily05 at gmail.com (Phil)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 15:02:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python on the Web
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: <633c57f3-fb46-4d11-93c7-64a07ecd0844@32g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

Haha. While I don't disagree with you, I seem to be under the
impression that you think I haven't been reading the web where nearly
every blog post complains about the abundance of Python frameworks.
The thing is, most of the frameworks being commented on in such a way
are 'microframeworks' that provide next to nothing. I'm do not mean to
say anything negative about them, but I strongly feel that my approach
will be much more functional without having to include, or at least a
good starting point for newcomers to both Python and web programming.
The ideas I had for mine lied somewhere in between a full stack
framework and a minimalist approach like said microframeworks.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Aug 27 18:05:03 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 23:05:03 +0100
Subject: How to unencode a string
In-Reply-To: <55f8f373-8e0a-4ca5-8deb-53c02e4d1137@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: <55f8f373-8e0a-4ca5-8deb-53c02e4d1137@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A97030F.9000805@mrabarnett.plus.com>

jakecjacobson wrote:
> This seems like a real simple newbie question but how can a person
> unencode a string?  In Perl I use something like: "$part=~ s/\%([A-Fa-
> f0-9]{2})/pack('C', hex($1))/seg;"
> 
> If I have a string like Word1%20Word2%20Word3 I want to get Word1
> Word2 Word3.  Would also like to handle special characters like '",(){}
> [] etc/

The Python equivalent of your regular expression code is:

 >>> import re
 >>> s = "Word1%20Word2%20Word3"
 >>> re.sub(r"%([A-Fa-f0-9]{2})", lambda m: chr(int(m.group(1), 16)), s)
'Word1 Word2 Word3'

The replacement is a lambda expression (an anonymous function), which is
called for each match with the match object and it works like this:

m                        # m is the match object
m.group(1)               # get group 1 (the 2 hex digits)
int(m.group(1), 16)      # convert to an integer
chr(int(m.group(1), 16)) # convert to a character


From manu3d at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 18:09:18 2009
From: manu3d at gmail.com (Emanuele D'Arrigo)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 15:09:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Does Class implements Interface?
References: <800d9226-6bbc-447e-a171-83777a9634b8@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<3e18a803-4445-4dcf-8d8f-7661fd46ab93@y4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 27, 9:42?pm, Jonathan Gardner 
wrote:
> Have you heard of duck typing?

Yes.

> Ignore all those things and rely on human (aka natural language)
> documentation. That is, if you want to see if a class will work for an
> interface, go read the docs on the interface (or rather, what the
> function expects the interface to be) and what the class provides and
> see if they fit.

Apologies, my fault, I didn't explain that humans are out of the loop
entirely. It's only at runtime that the program obtains the class
object that might or might not conform to an expected interface. In
fact the program might obtain multiple objects and have to decide
which one conforms best to the expected interface. Of course I could
use hasattr() and the inspect module (anything else?) to find out if
existing attributes and method signatures are those expected. Or I
could just deal with the exceptions as they are raised. However, if I
could somehow rely that the object I'm getting has the right methods
and signatures I could avoid peppering the code with try/except
constructs.

I was just wondering then if this has been somewhat dealt with and has
been wrapped in a neat package, set of functions, recipe or pattern.

Manu


From somebody at somewhere.com  Thu Aug 27 18:16:14 2009
From: somebody at somewhere.com (Stephen Fairchild)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 23:16:14 +0100
Subject: How to unencode a string
References: <55f8f373-8e0a-4ca5-8deb-53c02e4d1137@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

jakecjacobson wrote:

> This seems like a real simple newbie question but how can a person
> unencode a string?  In Perl I use something like: "$part=~ s/\%([A-Fa-
> f0-9]{2})/pack('C', hex($1))/seg;"
> 
> If I have a string like Word1%20Word2%20Word3 I want to get Word1
> Word2 Word3.  Would also like to handle special characters like '",(){}
> [] etc/

import urllib
print urllib.unquote("Word1%20Word2%20Word3")
-- 
Stephen Fairchild


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Thu Aug 27 18:22:33 2009
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 15:22:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Does Class implements Interface?
References: <800d9226-6bbc-447e-a171-83777a9634b8@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<3e18a803-4445-4dcf-8d8f-7661fd46ab93@y4g2000prf.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 27, 3:09?pm, "Emanuele D'Arrigo"  wrote:
>
> Apologies, my fault,

No apology is necessary.

> I didn't explain that humans are out of the loop
> entirely. It's only at runtime that the program obtains the class
> object that might or might not conform to an expected interface. In
> fact the program might obtain multiple objects and have to decide
> which one conforms best to the expected interface. Of course I could
> use hasattr() and the inspect module (anything else?) to find out if
> existing attributes and method signatures are those expected. Or I
> could just deal with the exceptions as they are raised. However, if I
> could somehow rely that the object I'm getting has the right methods
> and signatures I could avoid peppering the code with try/except
> constructs.
>
> I was just wondering then if this has been somewhat dealt with and has
> been wrapped in a neat package, set of functions, recipe or pattern.
>

Don't bother with introspection using hasattr() and such. Use
exceptions. If the object that is instantiated at run-time doesn't
provide the right interface, throw an exception and direct it to the
responsible party.

This isn't much different than what you'd do if you're writing an app
that expects a string of digits but is instead given a string of non-
digits. Rather than inspecting the string before converting it
(introspection), just try to convert it and catch the exception. Then
handle the exception such that you tell the person who entered the
data, "I wanted numbers, not letters" and allow them to try again.

When you stop asking "Did I get something I expect?" except only when
it is absolutely necessary, then you can get back to writing your
program.


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Thu Aug 27 18:25:09 2009
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 15:25:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Does Class implements Interface?
References: <800d9226-6bbc-447e-a171-83777a9634b8@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<3e18a803-4445-4dcf-8d8f-7661fd46ab93@y4g2000prf.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: <83dc3cba-a6f5-46ef-8a43-119b78be622d@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 27, 3:09?pm, "Emanuele D'Arrigo"  wrote:
> On Aug 27, 9:42?pm, Jonathan Gardner 
> wrote:
>
> > Have you heard of duck typing?
>
> Yes.
>
> I was just wondering then if this has been somewhat dealt with and has
> been wrapped in a neat package, set of functions, recipe or pattern.
>

As a joke (but only partly), here's the python code you'd use to check
to see if a value conforms with expectations:




As you can see, the above code is not only easy to write, but easy to
write unit tests for, compile, run, and debug. It simply doesn't get
better than this.


From kccnospam at glenevin.com  Thu Aug 27 18:29:53 2009
From: kccnospam at glenevin.com (seanacais)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 15:29:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: variables of the class are not available as default values?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 27, 5:44?pm, Chris Rebert  wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 2:37 PM, seanacais wrote:
> > I'm working on a program where I wish to define the default value of a
> > method as a value that was set in __init__. ?I get a compilation error
> > saying that self is undefined.
>
> > As always a code snippet helps :-)
>
> > class foo:
> > ? ?def __init__(self, maxvalue):
> > ? ? ? ?self.maxvalue = maxvalue
> > ? ? ? ?self.value = 0
>
> > ? ?def put(self, value=self.maxvalue):
> > ? ? ? ?self.value = value
>
> > So if I call foo.put() the value is set to maxvalue but maxvalue can
> > be specified when I instantiate foo.
> > python test.py
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> > ?File "test.py", line 1, in 
> > ? ?class foo:
> > ?File "test.py", line 6, in foo
> > ? ?def put(self, value=self.maxvalue):
> > NameError: name 'self' is not defined
> > Explanations and/or workarounds much appreciated.
>
> Workaround:
>
> class foo:
> ? ? def __init__(self, maxvalue):
> ? ? ? ? self.maxvalue = maxvalue
> ? ? ? ? self.value = 0
>
> ? ? def put(self, value=None):
> ? ? ? ? self.value = self.value if value is None else value
>
> Explanation:
>
> Default values are only evaluated once, when the class is defined,
> thus "self" is not defined at that point since the class is still
> being defined when the method definition is executed and thus there
> can be no instances yet anyway.
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --http://blog.rebertia.com

That clears that up for me.   Thank you!


From find.mig at paa.google  Thu Aug 27 18:31:15 2009
From: find.mig at paa.google (Esben von Buchwald)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 00:31:15 +0200
Subject: Protecting against callbacks queuing up?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4a91db65$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>		<4a92b290$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>		<4a93e575$0$298$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>		<4a95961d$0$300$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
	
Message-ID: <4a970942$0$334$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>

Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> 
> 	The only other thing I could suggest is exactly what is done on:
> http://pys60.garage.maemo.org/doc/s60/node59.html
> 
> 	Initialize a counter value to 0, then increment it in the callback,
> only doing REAL work every n calls.
> 
> 
> 	def doCallback(self):
> 		if self.count % 35 == 0:	#doc says 35 hits/second, so this
> 			self.data_callback()	#will run one once per second
> 		self.count += 1
> 
> 	You'll still get that slew of backlogged callbacks that built up
> while doing the real processing, but unless self.data_callback() takes
> more time than the "35" covers, most of the callbacks will just come in
> and exit with an increment.

Of course I can do that.


But it'll only make a noticable delay EVERY time the user moves, and not 
prevent the build up of calls if it doesn't finish within the 35 callbacks.

The point is that I don't know in advance, how long the call will take. 
It depends on the amount of data i load and process during the call.
I only know when the calculations have finished, and when they are 
called, and think there might be some way to block further callbacks 
until the first one returns?


From find.mig at paa.google  Thu Aug 27 18:42:16 2009
From: find.mig at paa.google (Esben von Buchwald)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 00:42:16 +0200
Subject: Protecting against callbacks queuing up?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <4a91db65$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>		<4a9595ca$0$300$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
	
Message-ID: <4a970bd7$0$333$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>

Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:
> 
> Hmm - now I am really starting to fly by the seat of my pants - but it looks 
> as if your problem is that your routine is basically being called faster than 
> what it can do the processing.
> 
> So what I would try is to define a global (you should really acquire a lock, 
> but forget that for the moment) So lets call this thing running_calculation.
> 
> Then you set this in the routine just before the after call, and reset it just 
> before exiting the calculation routine, and if it is set when you get into 
> the first routine, then you just exit, without doing the after.   This should 
> have the effect of skipping some calls, to make it all manageable.  Then you 
> should (hopefully) not have the duplication that it looks to me like you are 
> now having.
> 
> Bye the way, make the time short - like 1 - it could also be that the time is 
> now so long before you start calculating, that you do not have a snowball's 
> hope in hell to be finished before the next value comes in.
> 

OK, now things starts to make sense.

You tell me to do something like this?


     def doCallback(self):
         if self.process_busy==False:
             self.process_busy=True
             self.at.after(0.01,self.data_callback)
     def doneCallback(self):
             self.process_busy=False


And the after command will cause python to spawn a new thread, which 
runs self.data_callback, which measn that the doCallback will return 
immediately, so the next callback from accelerometer can be processed?

And when the self.data_callback() finishes, i'd make it call the 
doneCallback() to release my busy flag, right?

I'm gonna try this tomorrow :)


From somebody at somewhere.com  Thu Aug 27 18:43:30 2009
From: somebody at somewhere.com (Stephen Fairchild)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 23:43:30 +0100
Subject: Does Class implements Interface?
References: <800d9226-6bbc-447e-a171-83777a9634b8@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<3e18a803-4445-4dcf-8d8f-7661fd46ab93@y4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <6fidnfxppNqOkQrXnZ2dnUVZ8uydnZ2d@giganews.com>

Emanuele D'Arrigo wrote:

> Apologies, my fault, I didn't explain that humans are out of the loop
> entirely. It's only at runtime that the program obtains the class
> object that might or might not conform to an expected interface. In
> fact the program might obtain multiple objects and have to decide
> which one conforms best to the expected interface. Of course I could
> use hasattr() and the inspect module (anything else?) to find out if
> existing attributes and method signatures are those expected. Or I
> could just deal with the exceptions as they are raised. However, if I
> could somehow rely that the object I'm getting has the right methods
> and signatures I could avoid peppering the code with try/except
> constructs.
> 
> I was just wondering then if this has been somewhat dealt with and has
> been wrapped in a neat package, set of functions, recipe or pattern.

http://docs.python.org/library/abc.html

In particular, pay attention to the term virtual subclass and also note in
the second code example the use of __subclasshook__ to define virtual
subclass membership by the presence (or not) of class attributes.
-- 
Stephen Fairchild


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Thu Aug 27 18:45:13 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 00:45:13 +0200
Subject: TypeError: _getfullpathname() argument 1 must be (buffer
	overflow), not str in windows xp, while making tarfile
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Ryniek90  (R) wrote:

>>> 
>>>>>>>> Ryniek90  (R) wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>R> Hahah right. My fault. Must remember to read documentation so many times
>R> until I find the solution.  Thanks, now works fine.  :-)
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> And, by the way, how come the traceback refers to
>>> File "backuper.py", line 197, in 
>>> while the posted code has only 188 lines?
>>> 

>R> Cuz my original code is bit longer - i've got some bookkeepings like
>R> __author__, __version__ etc., just after module imports.

That can be very confusing for people that want to help you.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Thu Aug 27 18:51:55 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 00:51:55 +0200
Subject: How to unencode a string
References: <55f8f373-8e0a-4ca5-8deb-53c02e4d1137@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

>>>>> jakecjacobson  (j) wrote:

>j> This seems like a real simple newbie question but how can a person
>j> unencode a string?  In Perl I use something like: "$part=~ s/\%([A-Fa-
>j> f0-9]{2})/pack('C', hex($1))/seg;"

>j> If I have a string like Word1%20Word2%20Word3 I want to get Word1
>j> Word2 Word3.  

urllib.unquote(string)

>j> Would also like to handle special characters like '",(){}
>j> [] etc/

What would you like to do with them? Or do you mean to replace %27 by ' etc?
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Aug 27 18:58:06 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 23:58:06 +0100
Subject: Protecting against callbacks queuing up?
In-Reply-To: <4a970942$0$334$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
References: <4a91db65$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>		<4a92b290$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>		<4a93e575$0$298$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>		<4a95961d$0$300$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>	
	<4a970942$0$334$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
Message-ID: <4A970F7E.9070006@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Esben von Buchwald wrote:
> Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
>>
>>     The only other thing I could suggest is exactly what is done on:
>> http://pys60.garage.maemo.org/doc/s60/node59.html
>>
>>     Initialize a counter value to 0, then increment it in the callback,
>> only doing REAL work every n calls.
>>
>>
>>     def doCallback(self):
>>         if self.count % 35 == 0:    #doc says 35 hits/second, so this
>>             self.data_callback()    #will run one once per second
>>         self.count += 1
>>
>>     You'll still get that slew of backlogged callbacks that built up
>> while doing the real processing, but unless self.data_callback() takes
>> more time than the "35" covers, most of the callbacks will just come in
>> and exit with an increment.
> 
> Of course I can do that.
> 
> 
> But it'll only make a noticable delay EVERY time the user moves, and not 
> prevent the build up of calls if it doesn't finish within the 35 callbacks.
> 
> The point is that I don't know in advance, how long the call will take. 
> It depends on the amount of data i load and process during the call.
> I only know when the calculations have finished, and when they are 
> called, and think there might be some way to block further callbacks 
> until the first one returns?

You could record when your callback finishes (is about to return) and
then ignore any callback that happens too soon after that:

     def doCallback(self):
         now = time.time()
         if now - self.last_call >= MIN_TIME:
             self.data_callback()
             now = time.time()
         self.last_call = now


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Thu Aug 27 19:05:04 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 16:05:04 -0700
Subject: How to unencode a string
In-Reply-To: <50697b2c0908271449x1854d875ncdde2280b46ecdcc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <55f8f373-8e0a-4ca5-8deb-53c02e4d1137@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<50697b2c0908271449x1854d875ncdde2280b46ecdcc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908271605h1055dfd7qc786a7e0e067f4a5@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 2:49 PM, Chris Rebert wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 2:10 PM, jakecjacobson wrote:
>> This seems like a real simple newbie question but how can a person
>> unencode a string? ?In Perl I use something like: "$part=~ s/\%([A-Fa-
>> f0-9]{2})/pack('C', hex($1))/seg;"
>>
>> If I have a string like Word1%20Word2%20Word3 I want to get Word1
>> Word2 Word3. ?Would also like to handle special characters like '",(){}
>> [] etc/
>
> Use the `uu` module together with the `stringio` module:
> http://docs.python.org/library/uu.html
> http://docs.python.org/library/stringio.html
>
> Not sure about special character handling though.

Ah, I misread our post in haste. Please disregard my reply.

- Chris


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Aug 27 19:05:37 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 00:05:37 +0100
Subject: Protecting against callbacks queuing up?
In-Reply-To: <4A970F7E.9070006@mrabarnett.plus.com>
References: <4a91db65$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>		<4a92b290$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>		<4a93e575$0$298$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>		<4a95961d$0$300$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>		<4a970942$0$334$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
	<4A970F7E.9070006@mrabarnett.plus.com>
Message-ID: <4A971141.6050402@mrabarnett.plus.com>

MRAB wrote:
> Esben von Buchwald wrote:
>> Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
>>>
>>>     The only other thing I could suggest is exactly what is done on:
>>> http://pys60.garage.maemo.org/doc/s60/node59.html
>>>
>>>     Initialize a counter value to 0, then increment it in the callback,
>>> only doing REAL work every n calls.
>>>
>>>
>>>     def doCallback(self):
>>>         if self.count % 35 == 0:    #doc says 35 hits/second, so this
>>>             self.data_callback()    #will run one once per second
>>>         self.count += 1
>>>
>>>     You'll still get that slew of backlogged callbacks that built up
>>> while doing the real processing, but unless self.data_callback() takes
>>> more time than the "35" covers, most of the callbacks will just come in
>>> and exit with an increment.
>>
>> Of course I can do that.
>>
>>
>> But it'll only make a noticable delay EVERY time the user moves, and 
>> not prevent the build up of calls if it doesn't finish within the 35 
>> callbacks.
>>
>> The point is that I don't know in advance, how long the call will 
>> take. It depends on the amount of data i load and process during the 
>> call.
>> I only know when the calculations have finished, and when they are 
>> called, and think there might be some way to block further callbacks 
>> until the first one returns?
> 
> You could record when your callback finishes (is about to return) and
> then ignore any callback that happens too soon after that:
> 
>     def doCallback(self):
>         now = time.time()
>         if now - self.last_call >= MIN_TIME:
>             self.data_callback()
>             now = time.time()
>         self.last_call = now

After a little more thought, I think that should be:

     def doCallback(self):
         if time.time() - self.last_call >= MIN_TIME:
             self.data_callback()
             self.last_call = time.time()


From kkumNOTTHISer at thatsearchenginesguglsemail.com  Thu Aug 27 19:05:41 2009
From: kkumNOTTHISer at thatsearchenginesguglsemail.com (Kreso)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 23:05:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Algorithms as objects?
Message-ID: 


I am writing an application that essentially calculates set of numbers,
say N1, N2, ..., where they can be calculated by several different 
algorithms. (One should be able to choose the algorithm at run time.) 
In each algorithm one starts from a set of functions, say f1, f2, ...,
which are then transformed into some other functions g1(f1, f2, ..),
g2(f1, f2, ...), ... , then maybe transformed once more and result is 
obtained by evaluating final functions. 
  I can naturally think about this as a collection of transformation
blocks, which have functions as input and output, and which can be
put together to get the final results. However, I am not sure
how to program this, especially since one cannot subclass function
type. To be clear let me give simplified example of what is needed:

f(x) has unknown shape, so one would like to try, say

f1(x) = ax - b x**2   or    f2(x) = a sin(b*x),

where a and b are variable parameters.

Then, one would like to create, with known k(x,y), function g(x) 
in one of two ways:
 
g1(x) = k(x, x)*f(x)  or   g2(x) = integrate(k(x, y) * f(y), y=0..1),

and finally evaluate N=g(1) as result. In this simple example 
there are 4 different algorithms  for f(x) -> g(x) -> N, and one
should be able to simply choose between them, e.g. by calling
N(g1, f2, (a,b)).

In practice algorithm is not necessary so linear,  but is
generally tree-lika:

(a,b) -> f1(x) --->g1(x)---+
                           |--> h(x) --> N
(c,d) ---+--> g2(x)--------+
         |
 f2(x) --+


It would be nice to have some class of function-objects,
that f1(x), .., g1(x), ... could be members/instances of so that common
operations on these functions could be possible (checking
that they satisfy some necessary properties, plotting them, ...),
and then second "class" of transformations/methods operating on
these objects.
I seem to be confused by the fact that I would like to somehow treat
algorithms as objects (so that one can experiment with different
algorithm systems) but I don't have clear picture how to do it.
I am just brainstorming for ideas. Any advice is welcome.



From clp2 at rebertia.com  Thu Aug 27 19:14:35 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 16:14:35 -0700
Subject: Algorithms as objects?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908271614q6609884aw36de8ef27b97d930@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 4:05 PM,
Kreso wrote:
>
> I am writing an application that essentially calculates set of numbers,
> say N1, N2, ..., where they can be calculated by several different
> algorithms. (One should be able to choose the algorithm at run time.)
> In each algorithm one starts from a set of functions, say f1, f2, ...,
> which are then transformed into some other functions g1(f1, f2, ..),
> g2(f1, f2, ...), ... , then maybe transformed once more and result is
> obtained by evaluating final functions.
> ?I can naturally think about this as a collection of transformation
> blocks, which have functions as input and output, and which can be
> put together to get the final results. However, I am not sure
> how to program this, especially since one cannot subclass function
> type. To be clear let me give simplified example of what is needed:
>
> f(x) has unknown shape, so one would like to try, say
>
> f1(x) = ax - b x**2 ? or ? ?f2(x) = a sin(b*x),
>
> where a and b are variable parameters.
>
> Then, one would like to create, with known k(x,y), function g(x)
> in one of two ways:
>
> g1(x) = k(x, x)*f(x) ?or ? g2(x) = integrate(k(x, y) * f(y), y=0..1),
>
> and finally evaluate N=g(1) as result. In this simple example
> there are 4 different algorithms ?for f(x) -> g(x) -> N, and one
> should be able to simply choose between them, e.g. by calling
> N(g1, f2, (a,b)).
>
> In practice algorithm is not necessary so linear, ?but is
> generally tree-lika:
>
> (a,b) -> f1(x) --->g1(x)---+
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? |--> h(x) --> N
> (c,d) ---+--> g2(x)--------+
> ? ? ? ? |
> ?f2(x) --+
>
>
> It would be nice to have some class of function-objects,
> that f1(x), .., g1(x), ... could be members/instances of so that common
> operations on these functions could be possible (checking
> that they satisfy some necessary properties, plotting them, ...),
> and then second "class" of transformations/methods operating on
> these objects.
> I seem to be confused by the fact that I would like to somehow treat
> algorithms as objects (so that one can experiment with different
> algorithm systems) but I don't have clear picture how to do it.
> I am just brainstorming for ideas. Any advice is welcome.

It sounds like you're describing the Strategy Pattern
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategy_pattern).

To have objects callable like functions, just implement the  __call__
special method in your class(es):
http://docs.python.org/reference/datamodel.html#object.__call__

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From mensanator at aol.com  Thu Aug 27 19:19:26 2009
From: mensanator at aol.com (Mensanator)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 16:19:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
References:  
	
	<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com> 
	
	
	
	
	<02a31f91$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<44bcb727-0885-4d4f-9c11-ca60a39b0d91@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<02a3e1e2$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<02a53d89$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<8d25833e-8008-42e9-ad24-10ddd4f6cbef@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
Message-ID: <4ee81a75-e22d-4bf7-8b40-b883cc6e69c6@k30g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 27, 2:26?pm, Piet van Oostrum  wrote:
> >>>>> Mensanator  (M) wrote:
> >M> On Aug 26, 4:59?pm, Piet van Oostrum  wrote:
> >>> >>>>> Mensanator  (M) wrote:
> >>> >M> That's my point. Since the common usage of "binary" is for
> >>> >M> Standard Positional Number System of Radix 2, it follows
> >>> >M> that "unary" is the common usage for Standard Positional
> >>> >M> Number System of Radix 1. That's VERY confusing since such
> >>> >M> a system is undefined. Remember, common usage does not
> >>> >M> necessarily properly define things. Saying simply "unary"
> >>> >M> sounds like you're extending common usage beyond its proper
> >>> >M> boundaries.
>
> >>> But the customary meaning of `unary' is the tally system, as a radix
> >>> system wouldn't make sense. I don't know when this term came into use
> >>> but I have known it for a long time.
> >M> Ok, I'll accept that and in the same breath say such common usage
> >M> is stupid. I, for one, have never heard such usage and would never
> >M> use "unary" in the same breath as "decimal, octal, binary" even if
> >M> I had.
>
> As I see it, unary just means that there is one symbol. Binary just
> means that there are two symbols, etc.

Right, and neither word, by itself, gives the full meaning.

>
> With unary, the only sensible numerical interpretation is to count the
> number of occurrences of that symbol, or if you also want to have the
> number 0, the number of occurrences - 1.

Trouble is, nothing's stopping you from making a non-sensible
interpretation.

>
> With binary and higher you can come up with more numerical
> interpretations but the most efficient one is the radix interpretation
> (for different values of `efficient'). I doubt that there are many other
> interpretations that you can call sensible.

But not impossible. You could have a base-3 tally system for ticking
off how many cars on a three lane road pass a given point. And you can
have mixed radix systems (pounds, shillings, pence or degrees, minutes
seconds).

> Therefore we immediately
> think of a radix system when we talk about binary, octal, decimal etc.
> But the word `binary' itself doesn't imply that.

Just as unary doesn't imply that it's an extension of binary made by
simply changing the base because there's more to it than that.
Yet, I constantly run into people who get confused by this. As a
result, I will never use the word "unary" even if it is considered
acceptable. If I'm trying to imply some sort of base-1 system,
I'll explain what I'm talking about and not assume the listener
will fully understand what is meant by "unary".

> --
> Piet van Oostrum 
> URL:http://pietvanoostrum.com[PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
> Private email: p... at vanoostrum.org


From barcaroller at music.net  Thu Aug 27 19:20:00 2009
From: barcaroller at music.net (barcaroller)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 19:20:00 -0400
Subject: PyGTK problems after Linux update...
Message-ID: 


I use a python-based program called 'meld' which worked fine until my latest 
Fedora11/KDE4.3 update; it now gives me the following error:

    prompt> meld

    /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/gtk-2.0/glib/_glib.so: undefined 
symbol: PyUnicodeUCS4_DecodeUTF8
    Meld requires pygtk 2.8.0 or higher.


If I run another GTK-based utility, I also get errors:

    prompt> gedit

    ** (gedit:28289): WARNING **: Error initializing Python interpreter: 
could not import pygtk.



I have installed the latest PyGTK (pygtk-2.14.1), to no avail.  Googling 
these messages have also produced no major results.  When I run 
'pygtk-demo', I get the following errors:

    prompt> python /usr/lib/pygtk/2.0/pygtk-demo.py

    Traceback (most recent call last):
    File "/usr/lib/pygtk/2.0/pygtk-demo.py", line 18, in 
        import gobject
    File "/usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gobject/__init__.py", 
line 33, in 
        from glib import spawn_async, idle_add, timeout_add, 
timeout_add_seconds, \
    File "/usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/gtk-2.0/glib/__init__.py", line 
30, in 
        from glib._glib import *
    ImportError: /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/gtk-2.0/glib/_glib.so: 
undefined symbol: PyUnicodeUCS4_DecodeUTF8


Does anyone know what needs to be done to resolve this?  Using Python 2.6.2 
on Fedora11/KDE4.3 32-bit i386/i586/i686.






From upton at virginia.edu  Thu Aug 27 19:35:04 2009
From: upton at virginia.edu (Dan Upton)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 16:35:04 -0700
Subject: printing from child process in Tkinter window
Message-ID: <5504f9ac0908271635j1926850y45c048f41c1ef0e@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I've been messing with this for a couple hours now but can't make it work.
Basically I have a Tkinter GUI that creates a child process via
subprocess.Popen, and I would like to capture the child process's output to
display it in a Text widget in the GUI.  Relevant snippets:

def click_start: #launch from clicking a button in the gui
   ...
   self.apppipe = Popen(cmdString, shell=True, stdout=PIPE, stderr=PIPE)
   self.master.after(200, self.readAppStdout)
   ...

def readAppStdout(self):
   readers, writers, exceptionals = select.select( [self.apppipe.stdout],
[], [], 0.001)
   if readers != []:
      pipetext = self.apppipe.stdout.readline()
      self.appoutput.insert(END, pipetext) #self.appoutput is the Text
widget

   (same for apppipe.stderr)
   self.master.after(200, self.readAppStdout)

I don't ever get any output in my window, even though I've waited long
enough that the application would otherwise have printed to the console
(based on its graphical outputs).  Any suggestions for what I'm doing wrong?

-dan
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From hjtoi-better-remove-before-reply at comcast.net  Thu Aug 27 19:43:40 2009
From: hjtoi-better-remove-before-reply at comcast.net (Heikki Toivonen)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 16:43:40 -0700
Subject: ANN: M2Crypto 0.20.1
Message-ID: 

M2Crypto is the most complete Python wrapper for OpenSSL featuring RSA,
DSA, DH, HMACs, message digests, symmetric ciphers (including AES); SSL
functionality to implement clients and servers; HTTPS extensions to
Python's httplib, urllib, and xmlrpclib; unforgeable HMAC'ing
AuthCookies for web session management; FTP/TLS client and server;
S/MIME; ZServerSSL: A HTTPS server for Zope and ZSmime: An S/MIME
messenger for Zope. Smartcards supported with the Engine interface.

This is the 0.20.1 release. Download links and bug filing instructions
on the homepage at
http://chandlerproject.org/Projects/MeTooCrypto.

Changelog:
- Fix regression in httpslib.ProxyHTTPSConnection, by Miloslav Trmac

-- 
  Heikki Toivonen - http://heikkitoivonen.net


From no.email at please.post  Thu Aug 27 19:49:27 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 23:49:27 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	
	
	 
Message-ID: 


Miles Kaufmann  writes:

>On Aug 26, 2009, at 1:11 PM, kj wrote:
>> I think I understand the answers well enough.  What I *really*
>> don't understand is why this particular "feature" of Python (i.e.
>> that functions defined within a class statement are forbidden from
>> "seeing" other identifiers defined within the class statement) is
>> generally considered to be perfectly OK.  IMO it's a bizarre,
>> inexplicable blindspot (which, among other things, gives rise to
>> a certain worry about what other similar craziness lurks under
>> Python's image of rationality).  I have never seen even a half-hearted
>> justification, from a language design point of view, for why this
>> particular "feature" is worth having.

>Guido's design justifications:
>http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2000-November/010598.html

Ah!  Clarity!  Thanks!  How did you find this?  Did you know of
this post already?  Or is there some special way to search Guido's
"design justifications"?

>...because the suite  
>namespace and the class namespace would get out of sync when different  
>objects were assigned to the class namespace:

>class C:
>   x = 1
>   def foo(self):
>       print x
>       print self.x

> >>> o = C()
> >>> o.foo()
>1
>1
> >>> o.x = 2
> >>> o.foo()
>1
>2

But this unfortunate situation is already possible, because one
can already define

class C:
   x = 1
   def foo(self):
       print C.x
       print self.x

which would lead to exactly the same thing.

I need to learn more about metaclasses, though, to fully understand
your post.

Many thanks!

kynn


From bearophileHUGS at lycos.com  Thu Aug 27 20:00:36 2009
From: bearophileHUGS at lycos.com (Bearophile)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 17:00:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Algorithms as objects?
References: 
	
Message-ID: <9bd48179-a356-4d7f-8057-f68db29d6cad@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>

Chris Rebert:

> It sounds like you're describing the Strategy Pattern
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategy_pattern).
>
> To have objects callable like functions, just implement the ?__call__
> special method in your class(es):

Please, can't you just use a bit of functional-style programming? Like
creating nested functions on the fly, etc.

Bye,
bearophile


From doctoresam at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 20:34:17 2009
From: doctoresam at gmail.com (Deep_Feelings)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 17:34:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: why python got less developers ?
Message-ID: 

python got relatively fewer numbers of developers than other high
level languages like .NET , java .. etc  why ?


From mwilson at the-wire.com  Thu Aug 27 20:39:56 2009
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 20:39:56 -0400
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: 
	<0018e1a0$0$2938$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<02a0ce27$0$30337$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> Leading zeroes in decimal numbers are *very* common in dates and times.

In banking too, according to someone at work today.

	Mel.




From clp2 at rebertia.com  Thu Aug 27 20:46:36 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 17:46:36 -0700
Subject: why python got less developers ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908271746v7116a1ffo62d5dced879a2c6a@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Deep_Feelings wrote:
> python got relatively fewer numbers of developers than other high
> level languages like .NET , java .. etc ?why ?

We lack Sun and Microsoft's massive marketing departments. :)

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Thu Aug 27 20:47:51 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 01:47:51 +0100
Subject: why python got less developers ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A972937.9070405@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Deep_Feelings wrote:
> python got relatively fewer numbers of developers than other high
> level languages like .NET , java .. etc  why ?

Fewer needed?


From gherron at islandtraining.com  Thu Aug 27 20:49:02 2009
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 17:49:02 -0700
Subject: why python got less developers ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A97297E.9020607@islandtraining.com>

Deep_Feelings wrote:
> python got relatively fewer numbers of developers than other high
> level languages like .NET , java .. etc  why ?
>   

Perhaps because we value QUALITY over QUANTITY ...

Gary Herron




From rurpy at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 27 20:49:26 2009
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 17:49:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: break unichr instead of fix ord?
References: <2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4A95A4D1.9060008@v.loewis.de>
	
	<4A961EE1.9010103@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <65e6c430-9dc4-4a90-8448-f8f587d19750@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>

On 08/26/2009 11:51 PM, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote:
 >[...]
 >>  But regardless, the significant question is, what is
 >>  the reason for having ord() (and unichr) not work for
 >>  surrogate pairs and thus not usable with a large number
 >>  of unicode characters that Python otherwise supports?
 >
 > See PEP 261, http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0261/
 > It specifies all this.

The PEP (AFAICT) says only what we already know... that
on narrow builds unichr() will raise an exception with
an argument >= 0x10000, and ord() is unichr()'s inverse.

I have read the PEP twice now and still see no justification
for that decision, it appears to have been made by fiat.[*1]

Could you or someone please point me to specific justification
for having unichr and ord work only for a subset of unicode
characters on narrow builds, as opposed to the more general
and IMO useful behavior proposed earlier in this thread?

----------------------------------------------------------
[*1]
The PEP says:
     * unichr(i) for 0 <= i < 2**16 (0x10000) always returns a
       length-one string.

     * unichr(i) for 2**16 <= i <= TOPCHAR will return a
       length-one string on wide Python builds. On narrow
       builds it will raise ValueError.
and
     * ord() is always the inverse of unichr()

which of course we know; that is the current behavior.  But
there is no reason given for that behavior.

Under the second *unicode bullet point, there are two issues
raised:
   1) Should surrogate pairs be disallowed on narrow builds?
That appears to have been answered in the negative and is
not relevant to my question.
   2) Should access to code points above TOPCHAR be allowed?
Not relevant to my question.

     * every Python Unicode character represents exactly
       one Unicode code point (i.e. Python Unicode
       Character = Abstract Unicode character)

I'm not sure what this means (what's an abstract unicode
character?).  If it mandates that u'\ud800\udc40' be
treated as a len() 2 string, that is that current case
but does not say anything about how unichr and ord
should behave.  If it mandates that that string must
always be treated as two separate code points then
Python itself violates by printing that string as
u'\U00010040' rather than u'\ud800\udc40'.

Finally we read:

     * There is a convention in the Unicode world for
       encoding a 32-bit code point in terms of two
       16-bit code points. These are known as
       "surrogate pairs". Python's codecs will adopt
       this convention.

Is a distinction made between Python and Python
codecs with only the latter having any knowledge of
surrogate pairs?  I guess that would explain why
Python prints a surrogate pair as a single character.
But this seems arbitrary and counter-useful if
applied to ord() and unichr().  What possible
use-case is there for *not* recognizing surrogate
pairs in those two functions?

Nothing else in the PEP seems remotely relevant.


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Thu Aug 27 20:55:35 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 10:55:35 +1000
Subject: [OT] How do I reply to a thread by sending a message to
	python-list@python.org
References: <20090827073102.293C91DF2@ctb-mesg8.saix.net>
	<4A964C3B.8090206@ieee.org> 
	
	
	
Message-ID: <87bpm0daew.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Terry Reedy  writes:

> In particular, because there is no indication that it is an exact
> duplicate of what I will also find on the list itself. Please use
> reply instead of reply-all.

Better: If you don't want to reply to the author directly, and you don't
want to reply to everyone, don't use ?reply to author? or ?reply to
all?.

When replying to the list, use the ?reply to list? command of your mail
client. This will, in a standards-compliant mail client, reply to the
posting address for the list (declared in the message header via the RFC
2369 ?List-Post? field, added automatically by every common mailing list
system), without a copy to the sender.

Thunderbird has a long-outstanding bug report requesting this feature
, which is
apparently fixed in recent versions. Before that bug was fixed, an
add-on  was
developed to add it in a different way.

If you're using a different mail client, look for the ?reply to list?
command, and if it's not there (or doesn't work correctly), report it to
the vendor as a bug and/or switch to one of the many alternative MUAs
that get it right.

-- 
 \      ?I think it would be a good idea.? ?Mahatma Gandhi (when asked |
  `\                          what he thought of Western civilization) |
_o__)                                                                  |
Ben Finney


From contact at xavierho.com  Thu Aug 27 21:16:41 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 11:16:41 +1000
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
	 
	
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908271816m68b761deq778f5105c2957baa@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 9:49 AM, kj  wrote:

>
> Miles Kaufmann  writes:
>
> >...because the suite
> >namespace and the class namespace would get out of sync when different
> >objects were assigned to the class namespace:
>
> >class C:
> >   x = 1
> >   def foo(self):
> >       print x
> >       print self.x
>
> > >>> o = C()
> > >>> o.foo()
> >1
> >1
> > >>> o.x = 2
> > >>> o.foo()
> >1
> >2
>

I haven't tested either codes, but that isn't "out of sync". Your x = 1 is a
static variable, and shared between all isntances of class C.


> But this unfortunate situation is already possible, because one
> can already define
>
> class C:
>   x = 1
>   def foo(self):
>        print C.x
>       print self.x
>
> which would lead to exactly the same thing.
>

It works because you're simply explicitly referring to the class's local
scope, which leads to the same result.

Again, that's just my understanding of the implementation.

Cheers,
Xav
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From ptmcg at austin.rr.com  Thu Aug 27 21:48:08 2009
From: ptmcg at austin.rr.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 18:48:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: regexp help
References: <4e548d26-f3c9-46b8-a82a-c012607e2ff8@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 27, 1:15?pm, Bakes  wrote:
> If I were using the code:
>
> (?P[0-9]+)
>
> to get an integer between 0 and 9, how would I allow it to register
> negative integers as well?

With that + sign in there, you will actually get an integer from 0 to
99999999999999999...

-- Paul


From pydecker at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 21:48:40 2009
From: pydecker at gmail.com (Peter Decker)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 21:48:40 -0400
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<7a9c25c20908240849p283cb70o50f374a4f8c867b@mail.gmail.com>
	
	<81ac68ae-c7fc-4caa-a04f-f358ffb78864@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 4:47 PM, David C Ullrich wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 22:22:20 -0700, sturlamolden wrote:
>
>> On 25 Aug, 05:56, Peter Decker  wrote:
>>
>>> I use the Dabo Class Designer to visually design my forms. So what's
>>> you're point?  :)
>>
>> Nothing, except lobbying for wxFormBuilder for anyone who still doesn't
>> know of it. :)
>
> That's great. But do you know of anything I can use as a
> visual form design tool in wxPython?

You mean you prefer the wxPython style of coding? No, I don't know
what's available. Once I discovered that Dabo is the smart way to get
all the benefits of wxPython without the ugly C++ style of coding, I
haven't used raw wxPython.

-- 

# p.d.


From doctoresam at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 22:12:57 2009
From: doctoresam at gmail.com (Esam Qanadeely)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 19:12:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: why python got less developers ?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 28, 3:46?am, Chris Rebert  wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Deep_Feelings wrote:
> > python got relatively fewer numbers of developers than other high
> > level languages like .NET , java .. etc ?why ?
>
> We lack Sun and Microsoft's massive marketing departments. :)
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --http://blog.rebertia.com

any technical reasons ??


From somebody at somewhere.com  Thu Aug 27 22:23:00 2009
From: somebody at somewhere.com (Stephen Fairchild)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 03:23:00 +0100
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 
	
	
	 
	
Message-ID: 

kj wrote:

> But this unfortunate situation is already possible, because one
> can already define
> 
> class C:
>     x = 1
>     def foo(self):
>         print C.x
>         print self.x

How is this a problem? There is no ambiguity between the global scope and
the local from within foo.

>From within foo C is accessed from the global scope having not found it as a
local. Once you have C C.x is just one step away. 

Variable self is local to function foo since it was passed in as a parameter
from the method which wraps it. 

Variable self refers to a class instance which contains a dictionary.
Variable x is absent from the instance dictionary so the class
self.__class__ is referenced, again from local scope to find x. If it
wasn't found there the superclasses would have been searched before
throwing an attribute error.

It seems to me, you are confusing instance creation with class creation.
-- 
Stephen Fairchild


From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Thu Aug 27 22:33:57 2009
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:33:57 -0400
Subject: why python got less developers ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 10:12 PM, Esam Qanadeely wrote:
> On Aug 28, 3:46?am, Chris Rebert  wrote:
>> On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Deep_Feelings wrote:
>> > python got relatively fewer numbers of developers than other high
>> > level languages like .NET , java .. etc ?why ?
>>
>> We lack Sun and Microsoft's massive marketing departments. :)
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Chris
>> --http://blog.rebertia.com
>
> any technical reasons ??
> --

Not really. It's mostly because of the lack of marketing departments
and pieces of paper to placate business majors (what Microsoft and Sun
call "certification")

> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From milesck at umich.edu  Thu Aug 27 23:27:23 2009
From: milesck at umich.edu (Miles Kaufmann)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 20:27:23 -0700
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
	 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 27, 2009, at 4:49 PM, kj wrote:

> Miles Kaufmann  writes:
>> Guido's design justifications:
>> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2000-November/010598.html
>
> Ah!  Clarity!  Thanks!  How did you find this?  Did you know of
> this post already?  Or is there some special way to search Guido's
> "design justifications"?

I just checked the python-dev archives around the time that PEP 227  
was written.

>> ...because the suite
>> namespace and the class namespace would get out of sync when  
>> different
>> objects were assigned to the class namespace:
>
>> class C:
>> x = 1
>> def foo(self):
>>     print x
>>     print self.x
>
>>>>> o = C()
>>>>> o.foo()
>> 1
>> 1
>>>>> o.x = 2
>>>>> o.foo()
>> 1
>> 2
>
> But this unfortunate situation is already possible, because one
> can already define
>
> class C:
>  x = 1
>  def foo(self):
>      print C.x
>      print self.x
>
> which would lead to exactly the same thing.

You're right, of course.  If I had been thinking properly, I would  
have posted this:

... the suite namespace and the class namespace would get out of sync  
when different objects were assigned to the class namespace:

    # In a hypothetical Python with nested class suite scoping:
    class C:
        x = 1
        @classmethod
        def foo(cls):
            print x
            print cls.x

    >>> C.foo()
    1
    1
    >>> C.x = 2
    >>> C.foo()
    1
    2

With your example, the result is at least easily explainable: self.x  
is originally 1 because the object namespace inherits from the class  
namespace, but running 'o.x = 2' rebinds 'x' in the object namespace  
(without affecting the class namespace).  It's a distinction that  
sometimes trips up newbies (and me, apparently ;) ), but it's  
straightforward to comprehend once explained.  But the distinction  
between the class suite namespace and the class namespace is far more  
subtle; extending the lifetime of the first so that it still exists  
after the second is created is, IMO, asking for trouble (and trying to  
unify the two double so).

-Miles



From rt8396 at gmail.com  Thu Aug 27 23:41:47 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 20:41:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: why python got less developers ?
References: 
Message-ID: <71fc40ff-cf0e-4b15-b60c-dd42deaac49d@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 27, 7:34?pm, Deep_Feelings  wrote:
> python got relatively fewer numbers of developers than other high
> level languages like .NET , java .. etc ?why ?

Ugh? Well maybe if you put some deep_thoughts into this conundrum you
may reveal the answer to your self. Python is an interpreted
"scripting", "glue", and "sys administation" language. As long as Java
can be complied strait to machine code and constantly run light years
faster than Python Java will always win in this area. But who cares,
Python is not meant for writing OS's or 3D games of the year, and i am
quite happy it is made to be that way. Python will never be as popular
as C, Java, etc for all these reasons. And since your chances of
making a living writing Java code verses Python code are absolute,
then of course that is where the pros will go.


From contact at xavierho.com  Thu Aug 27 23:48:31 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:48:31 +1000
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
	 
	
	
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908272048m656cecb9nc68f1fd3bfdf02bb@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 1:27 PM, Miles Kaufmann  wrote:

> You're right, of course.  If I had been thinking properly, I would have
> posted this:
>
> ... the suite namespace and the class namespace would get out of sync when
> different objects were assigned to the class namespace:


I'm not an expert on Python, but could you define "out of sync" for me? When
you call the class as a new instance and assign it to a new variable, the
class attributes (self.x) are independent for each instance. The static
variables in the class (x, or C.x in this case) is shared between all
instances of this class.


>   # In a hypothetical Python with nested class suite scoping:


Class already provides some kind of scoping/namespace, that is the locals()
method for the class. What is pypothetical about this, if you could
elaborate?



With your example, the result is at least easily explainable: self.x is
> originally 1


Incorrect. "self.x" (or cls.x in your sample code) doesn't exist until you
called o.x = 2, which sets "cls.x = 2".

Don't be confused between static variables that are initialised at class
creation, and the class attributes which usually is declared inside the
__init__ method.


> because the object namespace inherits from the class namespace, but running
> 'o.x = 2' rebinds 'x' in the object namespace (without affecting the class
> namespace).


See above comment.


> It's a distinction that sometimes trips up newbies (and me, apparently ;)
> ), but it's straightforward to comprehend once explained.  But the
> distinction between the class suite namespace and the class namespace is far
> more subtle; extending the lifetime of the first so that it still exists
> after the second is created is, IMO, asking for trouble (and trying to unify
> the two double so).


It is. I had trouble getting it also, but once I think of all the variables
outside of the __init__() method as "static", and the ones within as "class
attributes", everything clears out just fine. =]

Any corrections appreciated. I'm merely posting my understanding of Python.

Cheers,
- Xav
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From contact at xavierho.com  Thu Aug 27 23:51:56 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:51:56 +1000
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: <2d56febf0908272048m656cecb9nc68f1fd3bfdf02bb@mail.gmail.com>
References: 
	
	
	 
	
	
	<2d56febf0908272048m656cecb9nc68f1fd3bfdf02bb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908272051h26f84ad9t218f39e86e74b2@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 1:48 PM, Xavier Ho  wrote:

>
> Class already provides some kind of scoping/namespace, that is the locals()
> method for the class. What is pypothetical about this, if you could
> elaborate?
>

Obviously that was supposed to be "hypothetical". Oops.
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From dukeofperl at ml1.net  Thu Aug 27 23:52:56 2009
From: dukeofperl at ml1.net (Duke Normandin)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 03:52:56 GMT
Subject: Transforming a str to an operator
Message-ID: 

Hey....

I'm a Python noob....

So far so good!

I've written the following:

num1 = raw_input('Enter the first number: ')
num2 = raw_input('Enter the second number: ')
op = raw_input('Select one of the following [+-*/]: ')
print 'The answer is: ', int(num1), eval(op), int(num2)
                                    ^^^^^^^^

How do I convert the contents of "op" from a string to an actual
arithmetic operator? eval() does not seem to be the answer. TIA!
-- 
duke


From contact at xavierho.com  Fri Aug 28 00:01:16 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 14:01:16 +1000
Subject: Transforming a str to an operator
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908272101y3f237951o32c04f30bd42a69e@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 1:52 PM, Duke Normandin  wrote:

> How do I convert the contents of "op" from a string to an actual
> arithmetic operator? eval() does not seem to be the answer. TIA!


Maybe you were looking for

print eval(num1 + op + num2) # it's a little ugly string concatenation.

Hm? (untested, but it works in my head.)

Cheers,
Xav
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From rt8396 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 00:08:54 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 21:08:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Transforming a str to an operator
References: 
Message-ID: <6ee483f7-e92c-49e0-be27-125f3389b1f2@33g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 27, 10:52?pm, Duke Normandin  wrote:
> How do I convert the contents of "op" from a string to an actual
> arithmetic operator? eval() does not seem to be the answer. TIA!


Try this..

>>> op = '+'
>>> one = '1'
>>> two = '2'
>>> one+op+two
'1+2'
>>> eval(one+op+two)
3


you could also use string formatting.


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Fri Aug 28 00:30:48 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 21:30:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Question on the "csv" library
References: <055885e5-b2ee-4ca7-84d9-238034b8f21d@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20090827213628.180142f6@geekmail.INVALID> 
	<20090827214240.70aeb792@geekmail.INVALID>
	<4587853e-5aaa-4be0-af87-d758481c6077@r42g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <9f3083b4-4886-41c3-9404-d7eac300964b@l35g2000pra.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 28, 6:44?am, Mark Lawrence  wrote:
> vsoler wrote:
> > On Aug 27, 9:42 pm, Andreas Waldenburger 
>
> > 1- the csv file was generated with Excel 2007; no prompts for what the
> > separator should be; Excel has used ";" by default, without asking
> > anything
>
> I find this difficult to believe,

Mark, there exist parallel universes the denizens of which use strange
notation e.g. 1.234,56 instead of 1,234.56 and would you believe they
use ';' instead of ',' as a list separator ... Excel perfidiously
gives them what they expect rather than forcing them to comply with
The One True Way.


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 00:32:55 2009
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 21:32:55 -0700
Subject: Transforming a str to an operator
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7a9c25c20908272132p737fe070w5a3c7b0a4970a2c9@mail.gmail.com>

>
> num1 = raw_input('Enter the first number: ')
> num2 = raw_input('Enter the second number: ')
> op = raw_input('Select one of the following [+-*/]: ')
> print 'The answer is: ', int(num1), eval(op), int(num2)
>                                    ^^^^^^^^
>
> How do I convert the contents of "op" from a string to an actual
> arithmetic operator? eval() does not seem to be the answer. TIA!
>

You could eval(num1+op+num2), but it'd be safer to do:

import operator
operators = {"+": operator.add, "-": operator.sub, "*": operator.mul, "/":
operator.div}
fn = operators[op]
print "The answer is:", fn(int(num1), int(num2))

Its best to avoid eval when possible :)

--S
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From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Aug 28 00:35:24 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 14:35:24 +1000
Subject: Transforming a str to an operator
References: 
Message-ID: <87skfcblo3.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Duke Normandin  writes:

> Hey....
>
> I'm a Python noob....
>
> So far so good!
>
> I've written the following:
>
> num1 = raw_input('Enter the first number: ')
> num2 = raw_input('Enter the second number: ')
> op = raw_input('Select one of the following [+-*/]: ')
> print 'The answer is: ', int(num1), eval(op), int(num2)
>                                     ^^^^^^^^
>
> How do I convert the contents of "op" from a string to an actual
> arithmetic operator? eval() does not seem to be the answer. TIA!

In general, ?eval? on unsanitised input is not the answer.

I would use the following approach:

    import operator

    op_funcs = {
        '+': operator.add,
        '-': operator.sub,
        '*': operator.mul,
        '/': operator.div,
        }

    num_1 = int(raw_input('Enter the first number: '))
    num_2 = int(raw_input('Enter the second number: '))
    op_prompt = (
        "Select an operator "
        + "[" + "".join(s for s in op_funcs.keys()) + "]"
        + ": ")
    op_symbol = raw_input(op_prompt)
    op_func = op_funcs[op_symbol]
    print 'The answer is: ', op_func(num_1, num_2)

This has several advantages:

* The input isn't evaluated directly as code.

* The operator symbols are specified in one place, the ?op_funcs?
  mapping; if you want to change the set of possible operators, you just
  change it there.

* If the input results in an operator that's not defined, it won't
  attempt to perform it; instead, a simple KeyError will result when
  trying to find the corresponding operator function.

-- 
 \           ?I do not believe in immortality of the individual, and I |
  `\        consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no |
_o__)  superhuman authority behind it.? ?Albert Einstein, letter, 1953 |
Ben Finney


From stefan_ml at behnel.de  Fri Aug 28 00:49:45 2009
From: stefan_ml at behnel.de (Stefan Behnel)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 06:49:45 +0200
Subject: why python got less developers ?
In-Reply-To: <71fc40ff-cf0e-4b15-b60c-dd42deaac49d@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<71fc40ff-cf0e-4b15-b60c-dd42deaac49d@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a9761e8$0$31876$9b4e6d93@newsspool3.arcor-online.net>

r wrote:
> As long as Java
> can be complied strait to machine code

I think you meant "compared" here.

Stefan


From contact at xavierho.com  Fri Aug 28 00:50:37 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 14:50:37 +1000
Subject: Transforming a str to an operator
In-Reply-To: <87skfcblo3.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: 
	<87skfcblo3.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908272150y59e5d458hab1fc6aa9c14187e@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Ben Finney

> wrote:

>    import operator
>
>    op_funcs = {
>        '+': operator.add,
>        '-': operator.sub,
>        '*': operator.mul,
>        '/': operator.div,
>        }
>
>    num_1 = int(raw_input('Enter the first number: '))
>    num_2 = int(raw_input('Enter the second number: '))
>    op_prompt = "Select an operator ({}):".format(','.join(op for op in
> op_funcs))
>
   op_symbol = raw_input(op_prompt)
>    op_func = op_funcs[op_symbol]
>    print 'The answer is: ', op_func(num_1, num_2)


Just fixing the code a little to be more "Pythonic" ;).

Might also want to do exception handling, but with a program this small,
meh.
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From doctoresam at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 01:03:54 2009
From: doctoresam at gmail.com (Esam Qanadeely)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:03:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: why python got less developers ?
References: 
	<71fc40ff-cf0e-4b15-b60c-dd42deaac49d@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

who cares if a language is compiled or interpreted as long as it runs
and perform the function.

second thing is : even if java is faster than python , unless you are
making performance critical operations : who cares? computers are
getting faster all the time and languages like python or ruby are fast
enough.

any comment ?


From doctoresam at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 01:05:29 2009
From: doctoresam at gmail.com (Esam Qanadeely)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:05:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: why python got less developers ?
References: 
	<71fc40ff-cf0e-4b15-b60c-dd42deaac49d@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: <42a1c81d-b2ec-46b7-9cf2-6e099bd260a3@j21g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>

i meant fast enough for most (but not all) applications


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 01:08:01 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:08:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Transforming a str to an operator
References: 
	<87skfcblo3.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <91126ac3-e7fe-4b7a-a37d-d1e60beaa278@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 27, 11:35?pm, Ben Finney  wrote:
> In general, ?eval? on unsanitised input is not the answer.

Yes i agree.

> I would use the following approach:

Abviously the OP is a python baby noob and casting your irrational
fear (and many others irrational fears) of eval at him is akin to
tales of Chupacabras running a muck in the jungle sucking the blood
from live goats in the twilight hours. I use eval all the time and
quite love it.

This is nothing more than a throw away academic exercise that will
serve no useful purpose for him in the future, but serves the very
useful purpose now of establishing an IO between the student and
Python interpretor. I'll bet most your example (albeit a good example)
flew miles above his head into la-la land.

The OP has plenty of time to learn about malicious input and
protecting against it, right now the fundamentals are well...
fundamental :)


From timr at probo.com  Fri Aug 28 01:27:45 2009
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:27:45 -0700
Subject: why python got less developers ?
References: 
Message-ID: 

Deep_Feelings  wrote:
>
>python got relatively fewer numbers of developers than other high
>level languages like .NET , java .. etc  why ?

How do you know, and why does it matter?

By the way, .NET is not a language.  I assume you meant C#.
-- 
Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From max at landaeus.com  Fri Aug 28 01:36:33 2009
From: max at landaeus.com (Max Landaeus)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:36:33 +0800
Subject: Does Class implements Interface?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <800d9226-6bbc-447e-a171-83777a9634b8@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>	<3e18a803-4445-4dcf-8d8f-7661fd46ab93@y4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <4A976CE1.2050506@landaeus.com>


Emanuele D'Arrigo wrote:
> On Aug 27, 9:42 pm, Jonathan Gardner 
> wrote:
>   
>> Have you heard of duck typing?
>>     
>
> Yes.
>
>   
>> Ignore all those things and rely on human (aka natural language)
>> documentation. That is, if you want to see if a class will work for an
>> interface, go read the docs on the interface (or rather, what the
>> function expects the interface to be) and what the class provides and
>> see if they fit.
>>     
>
> Apologies, my fault, I didn't explain that humans are out of the loop
> entirely. It's only at runtime that the program obtains the class
> object that might or might not conform to an expected interface. In
> fact the program might obtain multiple objects and have to decide
> which one conforms best to the expected interface. Of course I could
> use hasattr() and the inspect module (anything else?) to find out if
> existing attributes and method signatures are those expected. Or I
> could just deal with the exceptions as they are raised. However, if I
> could somehow rely that the object I'm getting has the right methods
> and signatures I could avoid peppering the code with try/except
> constructs.
>
> I was just wondering then if this has been somewhat dealt with and has
> been wrapped in a neat package, set of functions, recipe or pattern.
>
> Manu
>   
Check out Alex Martelli's recipe 'Checking wheter an object has 
necessary attributes' in the Python Cookbook:
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Q0s6Vgb98CQC&printsec=frontcover&dq=python+cookbook#v=onepage&q=&f=false 


Max


From doctoresam at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 01:44:59 2009
From: doctoresam at gmail.com (Esam Qanadeely)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:44:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: why python got less developers ?
References: 
	
Message-ID: <1ccf54f5-b1f5-4c4a-b782-fde1a1648cf6@l5g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 28, 8:27?am, Tim Roberts  wrote:
> Deep_Feelings  wrote:
>
> >python got relatively fewer numbers of developers than other high
> >level languages like .NET , java .. etc ?why ?
>
> How do you know, and why does it matter?
>
> By the way, .NET is not a language. ?I assume you meant C#.
> --
> Tim Roberts, t... at probo.com
> Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.

you know when you go to forums and compare the number of posts and
topics ,and you know when you google and compare the number of results

.NET= i meant all .NET languages


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 01:52:11 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:52:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: why python got less developers ?
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 27, 7:34?pm, Deep_Feelings  wrote:
> python got relatively fewer numbers of developers than other high
> level languages like .NET , java .. etc ?why ?

Oh, and why on god's green would you ever compare Java (*puke*) and
Python in the same breath? You say Python is a "high-level-language"?
Well sir,  i say Python is a "super-high-level-language" that
approaches pseudo code simplicity *but* stays far enough away from it
so as not to be scorched by it's asinine synonymous quirks.


From frank at chagford.com  Fri Aug 28 02:01:01 2009
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 08:01:01 +0200
Subject: Move dictionary from instance to class level
References: 
	<705c21b0-2858-46c2-8230-3cea64f5be3a@a26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 


Anthony Tolle wrote:
> To take things one step further, I would recommend using decorators to
> allow symbolic association of functions with the message identifiers,
> as follows:
>

[...]

That's neat. Thanks.

Frank




From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 02:01:29 2009
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 23:01:29 -0700
Subject: Transforming a str to an operator
In-Reply-To: <91126ac3-e7fe-4b7a-a37d-d1e60beaa278@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<87skfcblo3.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<91126ac3-e7fe-4b7a-a37d-d1e60beaa278@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c20908272301p7675c8f4q91dbb5ea4b790210@mail.gmail.com>

>
> > I would use the following approach:
>
> Abviously the OP is a python baby noob and casting your irrational
> fear (and many others irrational fears) of eval at him is akin to
> tales of Chupacabras running a muck in the jungle sucking the blood
> from live goats in the twilight hours. I use eval all the time and
> quite love it.
>

Yes, the OP is clearly a newbie to the language and probably programming in
general, but that response is nonsense. It's a perfect example of a false
analogy. Chupacabras are superstition, baseless fear-mongering. eval() is a
very real dangerous construct. There is absolutely nothing irrational about
the unsafe nature of eval.

It is a tool: it is a useful tool if one knows how to use it, but is a tool
that you'll slam into your thumb and break it if you don't know how. When
there are tools available which address the same problem without those
dangers, newbies should be exposed to THOSE first.



> This is nothing more than a throw away academic exercise that will
> serve no useful purpose for him in the future, but serves the very
> useful purpose now of establishing an IO between the student and
> Python interpretor. I'll bet most your example (albeit a good example)
> flew miles above his head into la-la land.
>

I prefer not to assume newbies are stupid; if they don't understand a part
of a correct explanation that's given, they can ask for clarification and
further details can be given.

True, this is a very Python-specific "correct" example to this basic
problem, with dictionary dispatch which is a very Pythonic idiom that might
be a bit too much for a newbie to programming in general: if that's the
case, the correct thing to show the newbie would be:

if op == "+":
    print "The result is:", int(num1) + int(num2)
elif op == "-":
    print "The result is:", int(num1) - int(num2)

..etc.

Exposing newbies to eval() is simply irresponsible. It is not an irrational
fear: eval has a purpose and it is useful and it's fine to use, IF you
understand the language and implications enough to use it. If you don't, if
you're a newbie to programming entirely, it is good sense and a benefit to
the newbie to steer the person away from something that will get them in
trouble down the road. If they're not ready to deal with input sanitization,
that's fine... but exposing them to dangerous practices when there's clear
and logical alternate approaches is fool-hearty.

The OP has plenty of time to learn about malicious input and
> protecting against it, right now the fundamentals are well...
> fundamental :)


eval is simply NOT a fundamental. It should be considered an advanced
feature, for advanced usage; that it seems simple is all the more dangerous.
No one should be taught from an early stage that 'this is how to address a
problem', only to then teach them later, 'Oh, by the way, that thing I
taught you? It's bad in most cases and you shouldn't do it again'.

--S
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From frank at chagford.com  Fri Aug 28 02:06:14 2009
From: frank at chagford.com (Frank Millman)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 08:06:14 +0200
Subject: Move dictionary from instance to class level
References: <20090827102111.ABC3B1F93@ctb-mesg4.saix.net>
	
Message-ID: 

Dave Angel wrote:


> OK, that makes good sense.  And I withdraw any suggestion to use pickling, 
> since that could be subject to hacking.
>
> It now appears that the messages are only incidentally GUI events.  And 
> that you would be well advised to make every possible event a separate 
> message, so that if the server state and the client state get out of 
> synch, you can readily check and reject such operations.  For example, 
> you'd have a message for pressing the SUBMIT button on a particular form, 
> but you'd have different message types for other buttons on the same form, 
> or for SUBMIT on other forms.
>

I use the same message type for all SUBMITs, but the body of the message 
contains a unique id for each button.

When the server constructs the form, it assigns a unique id to each widget, 
and includes this id in the form definition it sends to the client. 
Therefore the server and client can unambiguously reference specific 
widgets, and there is no real danger of getting out of sync.

Frank






From chris at simplistix.co.uk  Fri Aug 28 02:26:45 2009
From: chris at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 07:26:45 +0100
Subject: why python got less developers ?
In-Reply-To: <1ccf54f5-b1f5-4c4a-b782-fde1a1648cf6@l5g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>
References: 	
	<1ccf54f5-b1f5-4c4a-b782-fde1a1648cf6@l5g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A9778A5.1060105@simplistix.co.uk>

Esam Qanadeely wrote:
> .NET= i meant all .NET languages

What? You mean like Python? ;-)

Google IronPython ya troll...

Chris

-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting
            - http://www.simplistix.co.uk


From jvpic at free.fr  Fri Aug 28 02:37:16 2009
From: jvpic at free.fr (jvpic)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 08:37:16 +0200
Subject: Learning Python advanced features
In-Reply-To: <4a967bd6$0$19301$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4a967864$0$15193$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<4a967bd6$0$19301$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4a977b20$0$740$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

Bruno Desthuilliers a ?crit :
> jvpic a ?crit :
>> Hi,
>>
>> Learning Python, I understand the mechanism of : closure, __new__, 
>> descriptors, decorators and __metaclass__, but I interrogate myself on 
>> the interest of those technics ?
>>
>> May somebody explain me the interest ?
> 
> Didn't like my answers on f.c.l.py ?-)
Si, mais je voulais savoir ce qu'on en pense sur un autre forum !
Merci encore...


From simon at brunningonline.net  Fri Aug 28 02:42:29 2009
From: simon at brunningonline.net (Simon Brunning)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 07:42:29 +0100
Subject: Question on the "csv" library
In-Reply-To: <9f3083b4-4886-41c3-9404-d7eac300964b@l35g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
References: <055885e5-b2ee-4ca7-84d9-238034b8f21d@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20090827213628.180142f6@geekmail.INVALID> 
	<20090827214240.70aeb792@geekmail.INVALID>
	<4587853e-5aaa-4be0-af87-d758481c6077@r42g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	
	<9f3083b4-4886-41c3-9404-d7eac300964b@l35g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8c7f10c60908272342o4fc91195m27b56e3b506eb540@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/28 John Machin :
>
> Mark, there exist parallel universes the denizens of which use strange
> notation e.g. 1.234,56 instead of 1,234.56

When displaying data, sure.

> and would you believe they
> use ';' instead of ',' as a list separator ...

CSV is a data transfer format, not a display format. Locale specific
stuff like this has no place in it. Dates, IMHO, should be in the ugly
but unambiguous ISO 8601 format in a CSV. It's for import and export,
not for looking pretty.

Besides - CSV; the clue's in the name. ;-)

> Excel perfidiously
> gives them what they expect rather than forcing them to comply with
> The One True Way.

When people export to a comma separated value file, they are almost
certainly expecting a file containing values separated by comas. If
Excel isn't giving them this by default, it's broken.

-- 
Cheers,
Simon B.


From beorn at seznam.cz  Fri Aug 28 03:45:58 2009
From: beorn at seznam.cz (hoffik)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 00:45:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Select column from a list
Message-ID: <25185508.post@talk.nabble.com>


Hello,

I'm quite new in Python and I have one question. I have a 2D matrix of
values stored in list (3 columns, many rows). I wonder if I can select one
column without having to go through the list with 'for' command.

For example I have list called 'values'.
When I write 'values[0]' or 'values[0][:]' I'll get the first row.
But when I write 'values[:][0]' I won't get the first column, but the first
row again! I can't see why.

Thanks
Hoffik
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Select-column-from-a-list-tp25185508p25185508.html
Sent from the Python - python-list mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Fri Aug 28 03:54:51 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 09:54:51 +0200
Subject: List iterator thread safety
In-Reply-To: <6bf89e55-2ddd-435f-925d-7cc3827c0f9a@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	<6bf89e55-2ddd-435f-925d-7cc3827c0f9a@24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <200908280954.51423.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Thursday 27 August 2009 16:50:16 Carl Banks wrote:
> On Aug 27, 7:25?am, Hendrik van Rooyen 
> wrote:

> > Its not too bad - if you crook a bit - the trick is that you iterate over
> > the list backwards when you are removing stuff based on index, so that
> > the remainder does not get jumbled up by losing their positions, as
> > happens when you do it going forwards.
>
> That's only if you remove the "current item".  The OP has different
> threads accessing the list at the same time, so I have to assume that
> item being remove is not necessarily the current iteration.

Sorry - I did not pick that up - The threading screws the simple scheme up.
In such a situation I would have a thread to run the list - almost like a mini 
data base - and link the lot together using queues.  It is still a bugger, 
though, as one thread could try to kill something that is "checked out" to 
another one.  Then you have to take hard decisions, and a list is the wrong 
structure, because you have to remember state.  Better to use a dict, so you 
can at least mark a thing as "dead", and check for that before you update.

8<-------- example --------

> For the record, I use a more sophisticated system that explicitly
> resolves cause and effect in my games.  That's probably beyond the
> scope of this thread, though.

Yes - it is hairy - and there are probably as many different solutions as 
there are programmers, and then some.  :-)

- Hendrik


From eric.brunel at pragmadev.com  Fri Aug 28 03:55:22 2009
From: eric.brunel at pragmadev.com (eb303)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 00:55:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: An assessment of Tkinter and IDLE
References: <55a0833d-3f1f-402a-8eb7-cb4b7861cce5@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 27, 11:22 pm, r  wrote:
> ---------------------------------------------
> Python offical docs and Tkinter
> ---------------------------------------------
> *The Python docs barely cover anything related to actual Tkinter
> coding. At the minimum the Tkinter doc page should have a subpage for
> all the widgets available --which is very small(approx 15) and each
> subpage should list the available methods on that wiget.

I think the general idea behind the 'lack' of documentation is that it
would only double tcl/tk's own documentation. I've always used Tkinter
using the tcl/tk docs here:
http://www.tcl.tk/man/tcl8.5/TkCmd/contents.htm
and once you get used to how you transform tcl syntax to Python
syntax, it works pretty well. Maintaining a documentation for Tkinter
in the official Python docs would force people to run after tcl. I
understand why they don't want to do that, even if I'd love to see a
better Tkinter documentation too.

> ---------------------------------------------
> from Tkinter import *
> ---------------------------------------------
> *Too many noobs start out with the "from Tkinter import *" idiom,
> unknowing that they are horribly polluting their namespace. I feel
> that all (tkinter) code should follow the "import Tkinter as tk"
> policy and never use "from Tkinter import *". To push this agenda i
> propose all docs be modified so that no one should see such global
> import blasphemy again. We should at least keep all example code in
> the latter non-polluting form and frown heavily upon global imports in
> Tkinter code or any code for that matter.

Well, I just don't agree with you on this one. AFAIK, Tkinter has been
made to make the 'from Tkinter import *' idiom work without too much
namespace pollution. I've always used it, still use it today, and
never seen any problem with it.

I do agree that this might lead newbies to think it's ok for all
modules, and end up doing 'from os import *' and wonder why opening a
file with 'open' no more works. But this is the only problem I can
see.

> ---------------------------------------------
> Tkinter Constants
> ---------------------------------------------
> *The Tkconstants module needs to be removed *yesterday* because i
> think it reinforces sloppy coding styles. The main problem is with
> subtle bugs that are created when someone rebinds one or more of the
> constants, for example "W=20". At first i thought the constants were
> great but I quickly found out the shortfalls of such a Utopian
> approach . Since Tkinter allows strings to be passed-into widget
> constructors, we should remove the TkConstants immediately and force
> everyone to use strings instead...
>
>  #-- instead of this --#
>   w.pack(side=LEFT,fill=BOTH,anchor=W)
>
>  #-- do this --#
>   w.pack(side='left',fill='both',anchor='w')
>
> The few extra keystrokes are well worth the effort!

Well, again, I don't agree. I prefer having well defined constants
than having to type strings. If the values for the fill option could
be anything, well, OK. But they can't: they have to be either 'x' or
'y' or 'both'. So I prefer to have them defined in constants.

[snip comments on IDLE, which I don't use]

> ---------------------------------------------
> Tkinter Canvas
> ---------------------------------------------
> *The Tkinter Canvas widget should return (X,Y) pairs when calling
> canvas.coords(obj). The current implementation returns a flat array
> that is pretty much useless outside of canvas calls. Of course one
> could zip the coords into pairs, but it seems clumsy to call zip() on
> 2 LC's when Tkinter could, and should, do it for you.

We agree on this one, but it's a minor flaw.

> *Canvas needs a canvas.rotate() method for polygons, lines -- (easy).

All Canvas methods are actually forwarded to the underlying tcl
interpreter. So you might want to suggest that to the tcl guys.

> ---------------------------------------------
> Tkinter ComboBox -- where's Waldo?
> ---------------------------------------------
> *As much as i hate to support anything related to M$, Tkinter needs an
> M$ stlye combobox. Yes, I know Tix has combobox (*puke*), however
> using it is like pulling teeth. I have coded up an far more elegant/
> simple solution -- and yes, i know about the OptionMenu widget which
> serves a useful purpose but is NOT a good replacement for a REAL M$
> style combobox ;).

You don't seem to be aware of the new widgets in tk, which do include
a combo-box (and a lot of others BTW). See the ttk:: commands in the
tcl/tk documentation (link above). These widgets already have a Python
wrapper (see http://pypi.python.org/pypi/pyttk/0.3).

> *For instance, ComboBoxes need values that the user can select from,
> this is as universal as humans and oxygen. But sometimes you want to
> give the user a detailed set of values in the dropdown listbox and
> then insert an abbrieation of the value once selected, such as the
> case with state names...
>
>  New Mexico -> MN
>   California -> CA
>     Florida -> FL
>
> ...instead of the laborious and wasteful convention of overriding a
> method to insert this value from a mapping each time why not just pass
> a pointer to the mapping into the constructor and create a combobox
> that actually knows how to walk and chew gum!

Again, you might want to forward that to the tcl guys. And I do agree
it would be nice.

[snip code]

[snip Tix comments...]

Tix is more or less dead, since nearly all the widgets it provided
have now way better alternatives which have been included in the tcl/
tk core in the ttk package, including comboboxes and notebooks. You
might want to have a look at these.


From contact at xavierho.com  Fri Aug 28 03:55:50 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:55:50 +1000
Subject: Select column from a list
In-Reply-To: <25185508.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <25185508.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908280055g3b38bec9j1f1e812dc8bab11f@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 5:45 PM, hoffik  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I'm quite new in Python and I have one question. I have a 2D matrix of
> values stored in list (3 columns, many rows). I wonder if I can select one
> column without having to go through the list with 'for' command.


As far as I know though, you will have to loop through this if you built
your matrix with nested lists.

i.e.:

li = [[1,2],[3,4]]
result = []
for row in li:
    result.append(row[0])
# result == [1, 3]


> For example I have list called 'values'.
> When I write 'values[0]' or 'values[0][:]' I'll get the first row.
> But when I write 'values[:][0]' I won't get the first column, but the first
> row again! I can't see why.


Let's say values = [[1,2][3,4]].
values[:] returns the entire values list, from beginning to end. So you end
up what you started with.
And, of course, values[:][0] is the same as values[0].

In fact:

>>> li[:][:][:][0] is li[0]
True

It's... a very interesting behaviour, to say the least.

You might be able to get a proper matrix behaviour using NumPy, (which I
never used, so I'm just throwing it out there as a guess) or you might have
to write your own iterator for later reuse.

Cheers,
Xav
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From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Aug 28 04:03:49 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 09:03:49 +0100
Subject: Question on the "csv" library
In-Reply-To: <9f3083b4-4886-41c3-9404-d7eac300964b@l35g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
References: <055885e5-b2ee-4ca7-84d9-238034b8f21d@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>		<20090827213628.180142f6@geekmail.INVALID>
	<20090827214240.70aeb792@geekmail.INVALID>	<4587853e-5aaa-4be0-af87-d758481c6077@r42g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>	
	<9f3083b4-4886-41c3-9404-d7eac300964b@l35g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

John Machin wrote:
> On Aug 28, 6:44 am, Mark Lawrence  wrote:
>> vsoler wrote:
>>> On Aug 27, 9:42 pm, Andreas Waldenburger 
>>> 1- the csv file was generated with Excel 2007; no prompts for what the
>>> separator should be; Excel has used ";" by default, without asking
>>> anything
>> I find this difficult to believe,
> 
> Mark, there exist parallel universes the denizens of which use strange
> notation e.g. 1.234,56 instead of 1,234.56 and would you believe they
> use ';' instead of ',' as a list separator ... Excel perfidiously
> gives them what they expect rather than forcing them to comply with
> The One True Way.
I suggest a new file type csvewtlsinac i.e. comma seperated value except 
when the list seperator is not a comma.:)  Does this cover everything?

p.s. is it "separator" or "seperator", after 50+ years I still can't 
remember?

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From martin at v.loewis.de  Fri Aug 28 04:12:34 2009
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 10:12:34 +0200
Subject: break unichr instead of fix ord?
In-Reply-To: <65e6c430-9dc4-4a90-8448-f8f587d19750@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4A95A4D1.9060008@v.loewis.de>
	
	<4A961EE1.9010103@v.loewis.de>
	<65e6c430-9dc4-4a90-8448-f8f587d19750@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a979172$0$11759$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>

> The PEP says:
>      * unichr(i) for 0 <= i < 2**16 (0x10000) always returns a
>        length-one string.
> 
>      * unichr(i) for 2**16 <= i <= TOPCHAR will return a
>        length-one string on wide Python builds. On narrow
>        builds it will raise ValueError.
> and
>      * ord() is always the inverse of unichr()
> 
> which of course we know; that is the current behavior.  But
> there is no reason given for that behavior.

Sure there is, right above the list:

"Most things will behave identically in the wide and narrow worlds."

That's the reason: scripts should work the same as much as possible
in wide and narrow builds.

What you propose would break the property "unichr(i) always returns
a string of length one, if it returns anything at all".

>    1) Should surrogate pairs be disallowed on narrow builds?
> That appears to have been answered in the negative and is
> not relevant to my question.

It is, as it does lead to inconsistencies between wide and narrow
builds. OTOH, it also allows the same source code to work on both
versions, so it also preserves the uniformity in a different way.

>      * every Python Unicode character represents exactly
>        one Unicode code point (i.e. Python Unicode
>        Character = Abstract Unicode character)
> 
> I'm not sure what this means (what's an abstract unicode
> character?).

I don't think this is actually the case, but I may be confusing
Unicode terminology here - "abstract character" is a term from
the Unicode standard.

> Finally we read:
> 
>      * There is a convention in the Unicode world for
>        encoding a 32-bit code point in terms of two
>        16-bit code points. These are known as
>        "surrogate pairs". Python's codecs will adopt
>        this convention.
> 
> Is a distinction made between Python and Python
> codecs with only the latter having any knowledge of
> surrogate pairs?

No. In the end, the Unicode type represents code units,
not code points, i.e. half surrogates are individually
addressable. Codecs need to adjust to that; in particular
the UTF-8 and the UTF-32 codec in narrow builds, and the
UTF-16 codec in wide builds (which didn't exist when the
PEP was written).

> Nothing else in the PEP seems remotely relevant.

Except for the motivation, of course :-)

In addition: your original question was "why has this
been changed", to which the answer is "it hasn't".
Then, the next question is "why is it implemented that
way", to which the answer is "because the PEP says so".
Only *then* the question is "what is the rationale for
the PEP specifying things the way it does". The PEP is
relevant so that we can both agree that Python behaves
correctly (in the sense of behaving as specified).

Regards,
Martin


From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Aug 28 04:14:59 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 10:14:59 +0200
Subject: Algorithms as objects?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7fpi03F2lmnccU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Kreso schrieb:
> I am writing an application that essentially calculates set of numbers,
> say N1, N2, ..., where they can be calculated by several different 
> algorithms. (One should be able to choose the algorithm at run time.) 
> In each algorithm one starts from a set of functions, say f1, f2, ...,
> which are then transformed into some other functions g1(f1, f2, ..),
> g2(f1, f2, ...), ... , then maybe transformed once more and result is 
> obtained by evaluating final functions. 
>   I can naturally think about this as a collection of transformation
> blocks, which have functions as input and output, and which can be
> put together to get the final results. However, I am not sure
> how to program this, especially since one cannot subclass function
> type. To be clear let me give simplified example of what is needed:
> 
> f(x) has unknown shape, so one would like to try, say
> 
> f1(x) = ax - b x**2   or    f2(x) = a sin(b*x),
> 
> where a and b are variable parameters.
> 
> Then, one would like to create, with known k(x,y), function g(x) 
> in one of two ways:
>  
> g1(x) = k(x, x)*f(x)  or   g2(x) = integrate(k(x, y) * f(y), y=0..1),
> 
> and finally evaluate N=g(1) as result. In this simple example 
> there are 4 different algorithms  for f(x) -> g(x) -> N, and one
> should be able to simply choose between them, e.g. by calling
> N(g1, f2, (a,b)).
> 
> In practice algorithm is not necessary so linear,  but is
> generally tree-lika:
> 
> (a,b) -> f1(x) --->g1(x)---+
>                            |--> h(x) --> N
> (c,d) ---+--> g2(x)--------+
>          |
>  f2(x) --+
> 
> 
> It would be nice to have some class of function-objects,
> that f1(x), .., g1(x), ... could be members/instances of so that common
> operations on these functions could be possible (checking
> that they satisfy some necessary properties, plotting them, ...),
> and then second "class" of transformations/methods operating on
> these objects.
> I seem to be confused by the fact that I would like to somehow treat
> algorithms as objects (so that one can experiment with different
> algorithm systems) but I don't have clear picture how to do it.
> I am just brainstorming for ideas. Any advice is welcome.
> 

Sound like simple function combinators to me. Like this:

import inspect


def combine(f, g):
     if len(inspect.getargspec(g)[0]) > 1:
         def h(*args):
             return g(*f(*args))
         return h
     else:
         def h(*args):
             return g(f(*args))
         return h


def a(x):
     return 10 + x

def b(x):
     return x ** 2



print combine(a, b)(20)


def c(x):
     return x, x * 2


def d(x, y):
     return x + y


print combine(c, d)(10)

But to be honest - I don't think you win much with this whole thing. 
Spelling out the function-calls the way they are made is in the end as 
efficient and clear as it can get. And for *real* algorithms, you need 
non-strict constructs, control-structures and the like, and in the end 
of the day, you create a programming language on top of a programming 
language.

Diez


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Fri Aug 28 04:18:01 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 10:18:01 +0200
Subject: [OT] How do I reply to a thread by sending a message to
	python-list@python.org
In-Reply-To: 
References: <20090827073102.293C91DF2@ctb-mesg8.saix.net>
	 
Message-ID: <200908281018.01750.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Thursday 27 August 2009 22:57:44  Terry Reedy wrote:

> > Nope. I got a duplicate sent to my mailbox, which I hate.
>
> In particular, because there is no indication that it is an exact
> duplicate of what I will also find on the list itself. Please use reply
> instead of reply-all.

If I do that, then the mail would go just to you, and not to the list at all, 
which is not what I suspect you want, in view of what you have just said.

I have to do a "reply all", followed by deletion of the author, and sometimes 
addition of the list as a "to" too.   Its a mess, and if I muck it up, the 
author gets a copy in his email, if he has not fudged his "reply to"

It would really be nice if the "reply" would go to the list, but for the 
digest versions, at least, it does not.

And different mail clients do not seem to make a difference.

- Hendrik



From contact at xavierho.com  Fri Aug 28 04:31:59 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 18:31:59 +1000
Subject: [OT] How do I reply to a thread by sending a message to 
	python-list@python.org
In-Reply-To: <200908281018.01750.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
References: <20090827073102.293C91DF2@ctb-mesg8.saix.net>
	 
	<200908281018.01750.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908280131p1599de21i62add26fc4e96ab4@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 6:18 PM, Hendrik van Rooyen  wrote:

> It would really be nice if the "reply" would go to the list, but for the
> digest versions, at least, it does not.


I'm on a few other lists. The Python ones are the only ones that I have to
manually change.

The Nuke-user mailing list automatically changes the To: to the correct
address, and I *think* they also use mail-man. The DLF list I mentioned
before also doesn't have this problem.

When will this be fixed? It'll take someone like 5 minutes to do a setting .
. .

-Just my rambling again
Xav
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From no.i.dont at want.mail.from.spammers.com  Fri Aug 28 04:37:15 2009
From: no.i.dont at want.mail.from.spammers.com (Fencer)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 10:37:15 +0200
Subject: Sending email
Message-ID: <7fpj9tF2clhemU1@mid.individual.net>

Hello, I'm using Python version 2.6.2 and I discovered it has built-in 
libraries for sending email (imports smtplib and email). On the web I 
discovered how to send mail through smtp.gmail.com:

mail_server = smtplib.SMTP()

mail_server.connect('smtp.gmail.com')
mail_server.ehlo()
mail_server.starttls()
mail_server.ehlo()
mail_server.login('username', 'password')

msg = MIMEText('Some message text')
msg['Subject'] = 'Some subject'
msg['From'] = 'Mr Underhill'
msg['To'] = 'someemailaddress'

me = 'myemailaddress'
mail_server.sendmail(me, ['someemailaddress'], msg.as_string())

That seems to work just fine but for the messages I will be sending I 
don't want to use my private GMail account.
We have an SMTP server at work, and I checked its settings in the 
Thunderbird mail client and it's using SSL over port 465, so a bit 
different from how GMail's SMTP server is configured in Thunderbird.

I altered my code slightly to account for this:
mail_server = smtplib.SMTP_SSL()
mail_server.connect('mysmtpserver.at.work', 465)

Everything I left untouched. However, it doesn't work:
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "C:\Users\fencer\workspace\Send Email\src\send_email.py", line 
16, in 
     mail_server.ehlo()
   File "C:\Python26\lib\smtplib.py", line 382, in ehlo
     self.putcmd(self.ehlo_msg, name or self.local_hostname)
   File "C:\Python26\lib\smtplib.py", line 318, in putcmd
     self.send(str)
   File "C:\Python26\lib\smtplib.py", line 310, in send
     raise SMTPServerDisconnected('please run connect() first')
smtplib.SMTPServerDisconnected: please run connect() first

As you can see, I'm on Windows Vista.

What do I need to change in my code to fix this problem? Thunderbird 
manages to do it! :) Ideally, I would like send an email that the 
recipient can't reply to, but if doesn't work, it's fine too. I want to 
use this to send automated emails to students with account information 
for a course.

- Fencer


From manu3d at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 04:40:28 2009
From: manu3d at gmail.com (Emanuele D'Arrigo)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 01:40:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Does Class implements Interface?
References: <800d9226-6bbc-447e-a171-83777a9634b8@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<3e18a803-4445-4dcf-8d8f-7661fd46ab93@y4g2000prf.googlegroups.com> 
	 
	
Message-ID: <55a99698-49ae-4af9-a254-d4e1a429b3d5@k30g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>

Jonathan, Stephen and Max, thank you all for the tips and tricks. Much
appreciated.

Manu


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Fri Aug 28 04:41:51 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 10:41:51 +0200
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 		
	
	<4a967b2f$0$19301$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	
Message-ID: <4a979838$0$13005$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

kj a ?crit :
> In <4a967b2f$0$19301$426a74cc at news.free.fr> Bruno Desthuilliers  writes:
> 
>> The only thing one is entitled to expect when learning a new language is 
>> that the language's implementation follows the language specs.
> 
> In fact, the official docs, when they discuss scopes, are off to
> a bad start:
> 
>   Names refer to objects. Names are introduced by name binding
>   operations. Each occurrence of a name in the program text refers
>   to the binding of that name established in the innermost function
>   block containing the use.
> 
> The first paragraph implies that binding can only occur within
> functions, which is either incorrect, or presupposes a definition
> of "function" that is not what most programmers would recognize.

Indeed, and you're right to point it. I strongly suggest you submit a 
ticket to the doc maintainers.

> In general, I found the docs very unclear on the subject of scoping.
> PEP 227 is much better, but I wouldn't have thought of it as "the
> specs".

Well, here again, it sure would help to make clear that peps (and 
release specific "what's new") *are* part of the doc. But for sure, what 
used to be a simple and clear reference is now a bit of a mess, despite 
the hard work of the doc team. Side-effect of the rapid growth of the 
language I guess...




From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Fri Aug 28 04:48:03 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 10:48:03 +0200
Subject: Algorithms as objects?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4a9799ac$0$8042$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Kreso a ?crit :
> I am writing an application that essentially calculates set of numbers,
> say N1, N2, ..., where they can be calculated by several different 
> algorithms. (One should be able to choose the algorithm at run time.) 
> In each algorithm one starts from a set of functions, say f1, f2, ...,
> which are then transformed into some other functions g1(f1, f2, ..),
> g2(f1, f2, ...), ... , then maybe transformed once more and result is 
> obtained by evaluating final functions. 
>   I can naturally think about this as a collection of transformation
> blocks, which have functions as input and output, and which can be
> put together to get the final results. However, I am not sure
> how to program this, especially since one cannot subclass function
> type.

Nope, but you can write your own callable types:


class functor(object):
     def __call__(self):
         print "%s called" % self

(snip)

> I seem to be confused by the fact that I would like to somehow treat
> algorithms as objects

Strategy pattern anyone ?


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Fri Aug 28 04:51:43 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 10:51:43 +0200
Subject: variables of the class are not available as default values?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <4a979a88$0$8042$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Chris Rebert a ?crit :
(snip)

> Default values are only evaluated once, when the class is defined,



s/class/function/

The function objects (defined in a class statement body...) are created 
before the class object itself.



> thus "self" is not defined at that point since the class is still
> being defined when the method definition is executed and thus there
> can be no instances yet anyway.


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Fri Aug 28 04:52:01 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 10:52:01 +0200
Subject: Protecting against callbacks queuing up?
In-Reply-To: <4a970bd7$0$333$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
References: <4a91db65$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
	
	<4a970bd7$0$333$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
Message-ID: <200908281052.01436.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Friday 28 August 2009 00:42:16 Esben von Buchwald wrote:

> OK, now things starts to make sense.
>
> You tell me to do something like this?
>
>
>      def doCallback(self):
>          if self.process_busy==False:
>              self.process_busy=True
>              self.at.after(0.01,self.data_callback)

This bit is allmost right - try to make the time a millisecond or less, if you 
can. (however that is specified - I do not know) The spelling is probably:

        self.at.after(1,self.data_callback, (other_stuff))

where "other stuff" comes from the event and is what is needed to do the 
calculation. - the event should be an argument to the doCallback thinghy too, 
somehow, so that you can get at what you need to do the calculation.

>      def doneCallback(self):
>              self.process_busy=False
>
you do not need this separate.
just do this:

def data_callback(self,other_stuff):
    calculate what must be calculated
    self.process_busy=False

>
> And the after command will cause python to spawn a new thread, which
> runs self.data_callback, which measn that the doCallback will return
> immediately, so the next callback from accelerometer can be processed?

Yes and skipped if the calculation is not done yet.  Obviously you will have 
to do whatever it takes to make sure the events keep coming (if anything), so 
it may end up a little more complex, but you basically have the idea now.

The thing that happens as a result of the after is not really a new thread, it 
is a piece of the main loop that gets diverted for a while to do the 
calculation.

if, in that routine, you go:

while True:
    pass

You will completely freeze up the whole bang shoot..

>
> And when the self.data_callback() finishes, i'd make it call the
> doneCallback() to release my busy flag, right?

see above - just clear it from the called routine.

>
> I'm gonna try this tomorrow :)

Good luck!

- Hendrik


From ben+python at benfinney.id.au  Fri Aug 28 04:54:30 2009
From: ben+python at benfinney.id.au (Ben Finney)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 18:54:30 +1000
Subject: [OT] How do I reply to a thread by sending a message to
	python-list@python.org
References: <20090827073102.293C91DF2@ctb-mesg8.saix.net>
	 
	
Message-ID: <87k50ob9o9.fsf@benfinney.id.au>

Hendrik van Rooyen  writes:

> If I [use the ?reply to author? command], then the mail would go just
> to you, and not to the list at all, which is not what I suspect you
> want, in view of what you have just said.

Right. The common ?reply? command in most mail clients means ?reply to
author?, and as you say, it requests to compose a reply addressed to the
author.

> It would really be nice if the "reply" would go to the list, but for
> the digest versions, at least, it does not.

No, it really wouldn't; because if you're asking to compose a message
address to the *author*, and it instead gets addressed to the whole
*list*, that's a recipe for disastrous communication errors.

Instead, it would be nice if people had a ?reply to list? command, and
used that when they choose to send a message to the list.

> And different mail clients do not seem to make a difference.

Fortunately, the messages that come from the list enable any mail client
to know the correct address for ?reply to list?. It only remains to
choose a mail client that knows how to use it.

-- 
 \       ?? one of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was |
  `\        that, lacking zero, they had no way to indicate successful |
_o__)                  termination of their C programs.? ?Robert Firth |
Ben Finney


From contact at xavierho.com  Fri Aug 28 05:04:57 2009
From: contact at xavierho.com (Xavier Ho)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 19:04:57 +1000
Subject: [OT] How do I reply to a thread by sending a message to 
	python-list@python.org
In-Reply-To: <87k50ob9o9.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: <20090827073102.293C91DF2@ctb-mesg8.saix.net>
	 
	
	<87k50ob9o9.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: <2d56febf0908280204k73a41cc0j63717c8ca258ff33@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 6:54 PM, Ben Finney

> wrote:

> Fortunately, the messages that come from the list enable any mail client
> to know the correct address for ?reply to list?. It only remains to
> choose a mail client that knows how to use it.


Would you be so kind and share with us for such a client that knows how to
use the mailing list attribute?

Thanks!
-Xav
-------------- next part --------------
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From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Fri Aug 28 05:06:31 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 11:06:31 +0200
Subject: Select column from a list
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4a979e00$0$3608$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

hoffik a ?crit :
> Hello,
> 
> I'm quite new in Python and I have one question. I have a 2D matrix of
> values stored in list (3 columns, many rows).  I wonder if I can select one
> column without having to go through the list with 'for' command.

Lists don't have columns. What you have is a list of lists (and FWIW, in 
your case, it should be a list of tuples since obviously these are 
fixed-size items where position is meaningfull).

> For example I have list called 'values'.
> When I write 'values[0]' or 'values[0][:]' I'll get the first row.

Not exactly. In the first case, you have a reference to values[0], in 
the second case a _copy_ of values[0]

 >>> alist = [[1, 2, 3], [4, 5, 6]]
 >>> ref = alist[0]
 >>> copy = alist[0][:]
 >>> ref is alist[0]
True
 >>> copy is alist[0]
False
 >>> copy[0] = 999
 >>> copy
[999, 2, 3]
 >>> alist
[[1, 2, 3], [4, 5, 6]]
 >>> ref
[1, 2, 3]
 >>> ref[0] = 888
 >>> alist
[[888, 2, 3], [4, 5, 6]]
 >>>


> But when I write 'values[:][0]' I won't get the first column, but the first
> row again! I can't see why.


alist[:] returns a copy the whole list. As I said, lists don't have 
"columns".

So yes, given your data structure, you do have to iterate over the outer 
list to collect items at specific positions of the inner lists (or tuples).

Depending on the size of your dataset, the frequency of such operation 
in your code, and required perfs, you can either

* just do the simplest thing, ie:

   first_column_items = [row[0] for row in values]

* try to find a more suited datastructure

* of just use the most appropriate tool for set operations, which is a 
relational database. FWIW, sqlite doesn't require any server setup, and 
can even be used with in-memory databases if you don't need persistance.

HTH


From vlastimil.brom at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 05:28:38 2009
From: vlastimil.brom at gmail.com (Vlastimil Brom)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 11:28:38 +0200
Subject: Select column from a list
In-Reply-To: <25185508.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <25185508.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <9fdb569a0908280228g59038ba1u30d6d5ef9d6a80ca@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/28 hoffik :
>
> Hello,
>
> I'm quite new in Python and I have one question. I have a 2D matrix of
> values stored in list (3 columns, many rows). I wonder if I can select one
> column without having to go through the list with 'for' command.
> ...

I guess, it won't be possible without an explicit or implicit loop;
you may try:

>>> from operator import itemgetter
>>> nested_list = [[1, 2, 3], [10, 20, 30], [100, 200, 300]]
>>> map(itemgetter(1), nested_list)
[2, 20, 200]
>>>

vbr


From anthra.norell at bluewin.ch  Fri Aug 28 05:59:17 2009
From: anthra.norell at bluewin.ch (Anthra Norell)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 11:59:17 +0200
Subject: Select column from a list
In-Reply-To: <9fdb569a0908280228g59038ba1u30d6d5ef9d6a80ca@mail.gmail.com>
References: <25185508.post@talk.nabble.com>
	<9fdb569a0908280228g59038ba1u30d6d5ef9d6a80ca@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A97AA75.3040101@bluewin.ch>

Vlastimil Brom wrote:
> 2009/8/28 hoffik :
>   
>> Hello,
>>
>> I'm quite new in Python and I have one question. I have a 2D matrix of
>> values stored in list (3 columns, many rows). I wonder if I can select one
>> column without having to go through the list with 'for' command.
>> ...
>>     
>
> I guess, it won't be possible without an explicit or implicit loop;
> you may try:
>
>   
>>>> from operator import itemgetter
>>>> nested_list = [[1, 2, 3], [10, 20, 30], [100, 200, 300]]
>>>> map(itemgetter(1), nested_list)
>>>>         
> [2, 20, 200]
>   
>
> vbr
>   
How about rotating the list with zip?
 >>> zip (*nested_list)[1]
(2, 20, 200)

Frederic



From marduk at letterboxes.org  Fri Aug 28 06:19:18 2009
From: marduk at letterboxes.org (Albert Hopkins)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 06:19:18 -0400
Subject: [OT] How do I reply to a thread by sending a message to 
	python-list@python.org
In-Reply-To: <2d56febf0908280204k73a41cc0j63717c8ca258ff33@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090827073102.293C91DF2@ctb-mesg8.saix.net>
	 
	
	<87k50ob9o9.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<2d56febf0908280204k73a41cc0j63717c8ca258ff33@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1251454758.12823.1.camel@blackwidow.nbk>

On Fri, 2009-08-28 at 19:04 +1000, Xavier Ho wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 6:54 PM, Ben Finney  +python at benfinney.id.au> wrote:
>         Fortunately, the messages that come from the list enable any
>         mail client
>         to know the correct address for ?reply to list?. It only
>         remains to
>         choose a mail client that knows how to use it.
> 
> Would you be so kind and share with us for such a client that knows
> how to use the mailing list attribute?

Evolution at least is mailing-list aware.  I usually "Reply to
List" (CTRL-L) and fugetaboutit. 



From olivier.darge at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 06:53:03 2009
From: olivier.darge at gmail.com (OdarR)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 03:53:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: why python got less developers ?
References: 
	
Message-ID: <2aab5093-5381-42e3-a3dd-1d2e88e36004@32g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>

On 28 ao?t, 02:47, MRAB  wrote:
> Deep_Feelings wrote:
> > python got relatively fewer numbers of developers than other high
> > level languages like .NET , java .. etc ?why ?
>
> Fewer needed?

excellent answer. LOL.

Olivier


From usenot at geekmail.INVALID  Fri Aug 28 07:13:22 2009
From: usenot at geekmail.INVALID (Andreas Waldenburger)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:13:22 +0200
Subject: Question on the "csv" library
References: <055885e5-b2ee-4ca7-84d9-238034b8f21d@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	
	<20090827213628.180142f6@geekmail.INVALID>
	<20090827214240.70aeb792@geekmail.INVALID>
	<4587853e-5aaa-4be0-af87-d758481c6077@r42g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	
	<9f3083b4-4886-41c3-9404-d7eac300964b@l35g2000pra.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <20090828131322.6173ade1@geekmail.INVALID>

On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 09:03:49 +0100 Mark Lawrence
 wrote:

> p.s. is it "separator" or "seperator", after 50+ years I still can't 
> remember?

The former. It's cognate to English "part" if that helps any.

/W

-- 
INVALID? DE!



From find.mig at paa.google  Fri Aug 28 07:15:50 2009
From: find.mig at paa.google (Esben von Buchwald)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:15:50 +0200
Subject: Protecting against callbacks queuing up?
In-Reply-To: <4a970bd7$0$333$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
References: <4a91db65$0$305$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>		<4a9595ca$0$300$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
	
	<4a970bd7$0$333$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
Message-ID: <4a97bc7e$0$339$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>

It seems to solve the problem.

What I did:

     def contextDataHandler(self):
         self.contextdata.process_busy=True
         self.services.findServices()
         self.drawDisplay()
         self.contextdata.process_busy=False

     def doCallback(self):
         self.at.cancel()
         if self.process_busy==False:
             self.at.after(0.01,self.data_callback)


The app works awesomely stable now

data_callback refers to contextDataHandler in parent class

Thanks guys, good job


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Fri Aug 28 07:40:28 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:40:28 +0200
Subject: Python on the Web
In-Reply-To: <1b7a2f45-dd10-4722-a9d8-8c6d2464e4d6@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<4a94ef42$0$27774$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	
	<4a96884b$0$22855$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<1b7a2f45-dd10-4722-a9d8-8c6d2464e4d6@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a97c215$0$16809$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Phil a ?crit :
>  When
> I gave that arbitrary percentage, I was basing it off of the
> information I had seen with regards to launching applications built
> with existing frameworks using lighttpd. I do realize I was missing a
> lot of information by looking up something that specific.

Indeed !-)

> I also
> understand that there are enough frameworks. That still won't change
> my mind. I do not want to write a web application, otherwise I would
> use an existing framework as suggested. I just wanted to experiment
> and see what kind of framework I could develop with some ideas I had
> in mind.

I wrote quite a couple web and non web frameworks myself - all ending up 
  in the trash can FWIW, but it certainly has been a very educative 
experience by itself.

>  I just really like some of the new features of
> Python 3, and most importantly, unicode compliance is just that much
> straight forward in my opinion.

If you're only writing your framework for learning purposes, you could 
as well go with Python 3, and implement everything from the ground up 
(not a trivial task FWIW).


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Fri Aug 28 07:45:13 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:45:13 +0200
Subject: Learning Python advanced features
In-Reply-To: <4a977b20$0$740$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
References: <4a967864$0$15193$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<4a967bd6$0$19301$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<4a977b20$0$740$426a34cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4a97c331$0$16809$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

jvpic a ?crit :
> Bruno Desthuilliers a ?crit :
>> jvpic a ?crit :
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Learning Python, I understand the mechanism of : closure, __new__, 
>>> descriptors, decorators and __metaclass__, but I interrogate myself 
>>> on the interest of those technics ?
>>>
>>> May somebody explain me the interest ?
>>
>> Didn't like my answers on f.c.l.py ?-)
> Si, mais je voulais savoir ce qu'on en pense sur un autre forum !
> Merci encore...

Hum... I guess the smiley was not big enough !-)



From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Fri Aug 28 07:48:07 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:48:07 +0200
Subject: Learning Python advanced features
In-Reply-To: <6b1a2aae-fd3d-40a8-9350-89a8661a6d4a@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
References: <4a967864$0$15193$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<6b1a2aae-fd3d-40a8-9350-89a8661a6d4a@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a97c3df$0$16809$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

Jonathan Gardner a ?crit :
> On Aug 27, 5:13 am, jvpic  wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Learning Python, I understand the mechanism of : closure, __new__,
>> descriptors, decorators and __metaclass__, but I interrogate myself on
>> the interest of those technics ?
>>
>> May somebody explain me the interest ?
>>
> 
> I assume you are asking, "Why do these features exist? What makes them
> useful? When would I use them?"
> 
> For that, you should re-read the documentation and discussion
> surrounding them. The short answer is that the above makes your job,
> as a programmer easier. It's easier because you have to write less
> code, read less code, and your code has fewer bugs.

I think the OP is mostly looking for practical use cases. FWIW, when I 
discovered Python's "lambda" (I only knew a couple low-level imperative 
languages by that time), I really wondered what an anonymous function 
could be used for !-)



From martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org  Fri Aug 28 07:56:08 2009
From: martin.hellwig at dcuktec.org (Martin P. Hellwig)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 12:56:08 +0100
Subject: why python got less developers ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<71fc40ff-cf0e-4b15-b60c-dd42deaac49d@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Esam Qanadeely wrote:
> who cares if a language is compiled or interpreted as long as it runs
> and perform the function.
> 
> second thing is : even if java is faster than python , unless you are
> making performance critical operations : who cares? computers are
> getting faster all the time and languages like python or ruby are fast
> enough.
> 
> any comment ?
I like to second that, if performance is *that* important you wouldn't 
go with Java either, you be better of with C or even assembly. Doesn't 
mean you should write everything in C, just the parts that are 
performance critical, preferably with a 'slow' fall back if there isn't 
an optimized routine available yet for a specific platform.

-- 
MPH
http://blog.dcuktec.com
'If consumed, best digested with added seasoning to own preference.'


From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Fri Aug 28 08:07:05 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 14:07:05 +0200
Subject: Object's nesting scope
In-Reply-To: <1ea2a98f-4035-4ec6-b5a9-06b21dd6f584@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<7fkqodF2llnghU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<1ea2a98f-4035-4ec6-b5a9-06b21dd6f584@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a97c851$0$307$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

zaur a ?crit :
> On 26 ???, 17:13, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
>> Whom am we to judge? Sure if you propose this, you have some usecases in
>> mind - how about you present these
> 
> Ok. Here is a use case: object initialization.
> 
> For example,
> 
> person = Person():
>   name = "john"
>   age = 30
>   address = Address():
>      street = "Green Street"
>      no = 12
> 
> vs.
> 
> person = Person()
> person.name = "john"
> person.age = 30
> address = person.address = Address()
> address.street = "Green Street"
> address.no = 12

Err... Looks like you really should read the FineManual(tm) - 
specifically, the parts on the __init__ method.

class Person(object):
    def __init__(self, name, age, address):
        self.name = name
        self.age = age
        self.address = address

class Address(object):
    def __init__(self, street, no):
        self.no = no
        self.street = street


person = Person(
    name="john",
    age=30,
    address = Address(
        street="Green Street",
        no=12
    )
)



From dukeofperl at ml1.net  Fri Aug 28 08:34:08 2009
From: dukeofperl at ml1.net (Duke Normandin)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 06:34:08 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Transforming a str to an operator
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c20908272132p737fe070w5a3c7b0a4970a2c9@mail.gmail.com>
References: 
	<7a9c25c20908272132p737fe070w5a3c7b0a4970a2c9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009, Stephen Hansen wrote:

> >
> > num1 = raw_input('Enter the first number: ')
> > num2 = raw_input('Enter the second number: ')
> > op = raw_input('Select one of the following [+-*/]: ')
> > print 'The answer is: ', int(num1), eval(op), int(num2)
> >                                    ^^^^^^^^
> >
> > How do I convert the contents of "op" from a string to an actual
> > arithmetic operator? eval() does not seem to be the answer. TIA!
> >
>
> You could eval(num1+op+num2), but it'd be safer to do:
>
> import operator
> operators = {"+": operator.add, "-": operator.sub, "*": operator.mul, "/":
> operator.div}
> fn = operators[op]
> print "The answer is:", fn(int(num1), int(num2))
>
> Its best to avoid eval when possible :)
>
> --S
>

In *any* language "eval" is dangerous, so your second example would
also be my choice. Thanks for the clue.

BTW, I hunted hi-n-lo for something that would address my question at
http://docs.python.org. I obviously didn't have much luck. Something
about those docs that is confusing....
-- 
duke


From bbxx789_05ss at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 28 08:40:46 2009
From: bbxx789_05ss at yahoo.com (7stud)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 05:40:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Sending email
References: <7fpj9tF2clhemU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: <2b3621fd-53fc-4f20-a048-3608894e52af@o9g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 28, 2:37?am, Fencer 
wrote:
> Hello, I'm using Python version 2.6.2 and I discovered it has built-in
> libraries for sending email (imports smtplib and email). On the web I
> discovered how to send mail through smtp.gmail.com:
>
> mail_server = smtplib.SMTP()
>
> mail_server.connect('smtp.gmail.com')
> mail_server.ehlo()
> mail_server.starttls()
> mail_server.ehlo()
> mail_server.login('username', 'password')
>
> msg = MIMEText('Some message text')
> msg['Subject'] = 'Some subject'
> msg['From'] = 'Mr Underhill'
> msg['To'] = 'someemailaddress'
>
> me = 'myemailaddress'
> mail_server.sendmail(me, ['someemailaddress'], msg.as_string())
>
> That seems to work just fine but for the messages I will be sending I
> don't want to use my private GMail account.
> We have an SMTP server at work, and I checked its settings in the
> Thunderbird mail client and it's using SSL over port 465, so a bit
> different from how GMail's SMTP server is configured in Thunderbird.
>
> I altered my code slightly to account for this:
> mail_server = smtplib.SMTP_SSL()
> mail_server.connect('mysmtpserver.at.work', 465)
>
> Everything I left untouched. However, it doesn't work:
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? ?File "C:\Users\fencer\workspace\Send Email\src\send_email.py", line
> 16, in 
> ? ? ?mail_server.ehlo()
> ? ?File "C:\Python26\lib\smtplib.py", line 382, in ehlo
> ? ? ?self.putcmd(self.ehlo_msg, name or self.local_hostname)
> ? ?File "C:\Python26\lib\smtplib.py", line 318, in putcmd
> ? ? ?self.send(str)
> ? ?File "C:\Python26\lib\smtplib.py", line 310, in send
> ? ? ?raise SMTPServerDisconnected('please run connect() first')
> smtplib.SMTPServerDisconnected: please run connect() first
>
> As you can see, I'm on Windows Vista.
>
> What do I need to change in my code to fix this problem? Thunderbird
> manages to do it! :) Ideally, I would like send an email that the
> recipient can't reply to, but if doesn't work, it's fine too. I want to
> use this to send automated emails to students with account information
> for a course.
>
> - Fencer

The docs say:

---
class smtplib.SMTP_SSL([host[, port[, local_hostname[, keyfile[,
certfile[, timeout]]]]]])

A SMTP_SSL instance behaves exactly the same as instances of SMTP.
SMTP_SSL should be used for situations where SSL is required from the
beginning of the connection and using starttls() is not appropriate.
---

So try getting ride of these two lines:

> mail_server.starttls()
> mail_server.ehlo()

There's also some info on google about a bug in this regard, so check
to see when you installed python 2.6.2.


From zvezdan at zope.com  Fri Aug 28 09:12:29 2009
From: zvezdan at zope.com (Zvezdan Petkovic)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 09:12:29 -0400
Subject: Does Class implements Interface?
In-Reply-To: <800d9226-6bbc-447e-a171-83777a9634b8@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
References: <800d9226-6bbc-447e-a171-83777a9634b8@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 27, 2009, at 9:16 AM, Emanuele D'Arrigo wrote:

> Are there resources such as tools, recipes, documents or strategies
> that could help me deal with these issues? I've already looked into
> the ABC module and the zope.interface. I'm just fishing for more
> things to look at.

You say above that you looked at zope.interface.
Did you look at zope.interface.verify?
Specifically, verify.txt doctests state that:

	"An object provides an interface if

	- either its class declares that it implements the interfaces,
	  or the object declares that it directly provides the interface

	- the object defines all the methods required by the interface

	- all the methods have the correct signature

	- the object defines all non-method attributes required by the
	  interface"

zope.interface.verify.verifyObject(I, obj) will check all of the above.
Similarly, zope.interface.verify.verifyClass(I, C) will check the class.
It is a good practice to call these functions in the regression tests.

If this is not what you are looking for, sorry for the noise.

	Zvezdan



From piet at cs.uu.nl  Fri Aug 28 09:23:47 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:23:47 +0200
Subject: Select column from a list
References: 
Message-ID: 

>>>>> hoffik  (h) wrote:

>h> Hello,

>h> I'm quite new in Python and I have one question. I have a 2D matrix of
>h> values stored in list (3 columns, many rows). I wonder if I can select one
>h> column without having to go through the list with 'for' command.

>h> For example I have list called 'values'.
>h> When I write 'values[0]' or 'values[0][:]' I'll get the first row.
>h> But when I write 'values[:][0]' I won't get the first column, but the first
>h> row again! I can't see why.

If you work with matrices, numpy may be interesting for you. It does
have the required functionality: M[:,0] will give you the first column.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From lucafbb at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 09:33:39 2009
From: lucafbb at gmail.com (Luca)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:33:39 +0200
Subject: Read a content file from a P7M
In-Reply-To: <20090320141244.GA31004@galliera.it>
References: <27308d500903110905j336da086ya39300c876aa95a5@mail.gmail.com> 
	<20090320141244.GA31004@galliera.it>
Message-ID: <27308d500908280633u310ed4ffu8fe753d69a575265@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Emanuele Rocca wrote:
> On 11/03/09 - 05:05, Luca wrote:
>> There is standard or sugested way in python to read the content of a P7M file?
>>
>> I don't need no feature like verify sign, or sign using a certificate.
>> I only need to extract the content file of the p7m (a doc, a pdf, ...)
>
> For PDF files you can just remove the P7M content before %PDF and after
> %%EOF.
>
> The following snippet converts /tmp/test.p7m into PDF, saving the
> resulting document into /tmp/test.pdf:
>
> import re
> from gzip import GzipFile
>
> contents = GzipFile('/tmp/test.p7m').read()
>
> contents_re = re.compile('%PDF-.*%%EOF', re.MULTILINE | re.DOTALL)
> contents = contents_re.search(contents).group()
>
> open('/tmp/test.pdf', 'w').write(contents)
>

After all those days... only to say THANKS!
The example of the PDF file is perfect, I only needed to not execute
the GzipFile call (it seems that our PDF are not GZipped).

Unluckily now seems that we need the same feature for non-pdf files...

-- 
-- luca


From hv at tbz-pariv.de  Fri Aug 28 09:42:36 2009
From: hv at tbz-pariv.de (Thomas Guettler)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:42:36 +0200
Subject: PyGTK problems after Linux update...
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7fq56dF2m6qlbU1@mid.individual.net>

Looks like your pygtk package does not fit to the installed python package.


>         from glib._glib import *
>     ImportError: /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/gtk-2.0/glib/_glib.so: 
> undefined symbol: PyUnicodeUCS4_DecodeUTF8

-- 
Thomas Guettler, http://www.thomas-guettler.de/
E-Mail: guettli (*) thomas-guettler + de


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Aug 28 09:43:05 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 28 Aug 2009 13:43:05 GMT
Subject: Numeric literals in other than base 10 - was Annoying octal 
	notation
References: 
	
	<9Wjkm.71294$OO7.22863@text.news.virginmedia.com>
	
	
	
	
	<02a31f91$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<44bcb727-0885-4d4f-9c11-ca60a39b0d91@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	<02a3e1e2$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<02a53d89$0$20629$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<8d25833e-8008-42e9-ad24-10ddd4f6cbef@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<02a5d290$0$15633$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<02a5ed07$0$15633$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<9f392780-cb72-4bdb-a571-b1c218f3cbf8@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <00216264$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 10:49:27 -0700, Mensanator wrote:

> Fine. I'm over it. Point is, I HAVE encountered plenty of people who
> DON'T properly understand it, Marilyn Vos Savant, for example. 

I'm curious -- please explain. Links please?


> You can't
> blame me for thinking you don't understand it either when unary is
> brought up in a discussion of how to interpret insignificant leading
> 0's.

Er, when I show an example of what I'm calling unary, and then later on 
explain in detail and link to a detailed discussion of it, who exactly 
should I blame for your confusion?



-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Aug 28 09:51:08 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 28 Aug 2009 13:51:08 GMT
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: 
	<87d46ok948.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
	<02a0b085$0$30337$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <00216447$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 10:31:04 -0700, Ethan Furman wrote:

> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> A mistake is still a mistake even if it shared with others.
>> 
>> Treating its with a lead zero as octal was a design error when it was
>> first thought up
> 
> [snippage]
> 
> I have to disagree with you on this one.  The computing world was vastly
> different when that design decision was made.  Space was at a premium,
> programmers were not touch-typists, every character had to count, and
> why in the world would somebody who had to use papertape or punch cards
> add a lead zero without a *real* good reason?  I submit that that real
> good reason was to specify an octal literal, and not a decimal literal.

Octal with a leading 0 comes from B, which influenced C, which influenced 
many languages. B was designed in 1969, the same year as Pascal, not the 
1950s -- six years *after* Basic, ten years after Lisp and Cobol, eleven 
years after Algol, and thirteen years after Fortran. *None* of these 
other languages use a leading 0 for Octal, and none of them are 
particularly terse.

Obviously I can't speak for Ken Thompson's motivation in creating this 
feature, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't to save typing or space on 
punchcards. Even in 1969, hex was more common than octal, and yet hex 
values are written with 0x. My guess is that he wanted all numbers to 
start with a digit, to simplify parsing, and beyond that, it was just his 
programming style -- why call the copy command `copy` when you could call 
it `cp`? (Thompson was the co-inventor of Unix.)


-- 
Steven


From bernhard.voigt at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 09:53:49 2009
From: bernhard.voigt at gmail.com (Bernhard Voigt)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 06:53:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Select column from a list
References: <25185508.post@talk.nabble.com>
	<9fdb569a0908280228g59038ba1u30d6d5ef9d6a80ca@mail.gmail.com> 
	
Message-ID: <708f2333-43d7-4091-8f73-67ef5ef4752a@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>


> >> I'm quite new in Python and I have one question. I have a 2D matrix of
> >> values stored in list (3 columns, many rows). I wonder if I can select one
> >> column without having to go through the list with 'for' command.

In case you want to due numerical calculations take a look at numpy it
has an extended slicing notation to select columns directly. See
http://www.scipy.org

# create 10x10 numpy array filled with 1
data = numpy.ones((10,10))
column = data[:,0]

Best wishes! Bernhard


From sturlamolden at yahoo.no  Fri Aug 28 09:55:55 2009
From: sturlamolden at yahoo.no (sturlamolden)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 06:55:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: why python got less developers ?
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 28 Aug, 02:34, Deep_Feelings  wrote:
> python got relatively fewer numbers of developers than other high
> level languages like .NET , java .. etc ?why ?

Because we are better, so fewer are needed.



From jakecjacobson at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 09:57:59 2009
From: jakecjacobson at gmail.com (jakecjacobson)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 06:57:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to unencode a string
References: <55f8f373-8e0a-4ca5-8deb-53c02e4d1137@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <31799652-b530-4877-8e2d-c5e7e3477ff0@d38g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 27, 6:51?pm, Piet van Oostrum  wrote:
> >>>>> jakecjacobson  (j) wrote:
> >j> This seems like a real simple newbie question but how can a person
> >j> unencode a string? ?In Perl I use something like: "$part=~ s/\%([A-Fa-
> >j> f0-9]{2})/pack('C', hex($1))/seg;"
> >j> If I have a string like Word1%20Word2%20Word3 I want to get Word1
> >j> Word2 Word3. ?
>
> urllib.unquote(string)
>
> >j> Would also like to handle special characters like '",(){}
> >j> [] etc/
>
> What would you like to do with them? Or do you mean to replace %27 by ' etc?
> --
> Piet van Oostrum 
> URL:http://pietvanoostrum.com[PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
> Private email: p... at vanoostrum.org

Yes, take '%27' and replace with ', etc.


From hamdori at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 10:11:58 2009
From: hamdori at gmail.com (Jinha Jung)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 07:11:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: why python got less developers ?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 28, 9:55?am, sturlamolden  wrote:
> On 28 Aug, 02:34, Deep_Feelings  wrote:
>
> > python got relatively fewer numbers of developers than other high
> > level languages like .NET , java .. etc ?why ?
>
> Because we are better, so fewer are needed.

That makes sense!! :-)


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Fri Aug 28 10:13:00 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:13:00 +0100
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: <00216447$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 	<87d46ok948.fsf@benfinney.id.au>		<02a0b085$0$30337$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	
	<00216447$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <4A97E5EC.5010007@mrabarnett.plus.com>

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 10:31:04 -0700, Ethan Furman wrote:
> 
>> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>> A mistake is still a mistake even if it shared with others.
>>>
>>> Treating its with a lead zero as octal was a design error when it was
>>> first thought up
>> [snippage]
>>
>> I have to disagree with you on this one.  The computing world was vastly
>> different when that design decision was made.  Space was at a premium,
>> programmers were not touch-typists, every character had to count, and
>> why in the world would somebody who had to use papertape or punch cards
>> add a lead zero without a *real* good reason?  I submit that that real
>> good reason was to specify an octal literal, and not a decimal literal.
> 
> Octal with a leading 0 comes from B, which influenced C, which influenced 
> many languages. B was designed in 1969, the same year as Pascal, not the 
> 1950s -- six years *after* Basic, ten years after Lisp and Cobol, eleven 
> years after Algol, and thirteen years after Fortran. *None* of these 
> other languages use a leading 0 for Octal, and none of them are 
> particularly terse.
> 
> Obviously I can't speak for Ken Thompson's motivation in creating this 
> feature, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't to save typing or space on 
> punchcards. Even in 1969, hex was more common than octal, and yet hex 
> values are written with 0x. My guess is that he wanted all numbers to 
> start with a digit, to simplify parsing, and beyond that, it was just his 
> programming style -- why call the copy command `copy` when you could call 
> it `cp`? (Thompson was the co-inventor of Unix.)
> 
Maybe it was because they were working on minicomputers, not mainframes,
so there was less processing power and storage available.


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Aug 28 10:14:07 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 28 Aug 2009 14:14:07 GMT
Subject: why python got less developers ?
References: 
Message-ID: <002169aa$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 17:34:17 -0700, Deep_Feelings wrote:

> python got relatively fewer numbers of developers than other high level
> languages like .NET , java .. etc  why ?

Python programmers are the elite. The elite are always fewer than the 
masses.


-- 
Steven
who is three quarters joking


From dukeofperl at ml1.net  Fri Aug 28 10:18:48 2009
From: dukeofperl at ml1.net (Duke Normandin)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 14:18:48 GMT
Subject: Transforming a str to an operator
In-Reply-To: <6ee483f7-e92c-49e0-be27-125f3389b1f2@33g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<6ee483f7-e92c-49e0-be27-125f3389b1f2@33g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009, r wrote:

> On Aug 27, 10:52?pm, Duke Normandin  wrote:
> > How do I convert the contents of "op" from a string to an actual
> > arithmetic operator? eval() does not seem to be the answer. TIA!
>
>
> Try this..
>
> >>> op = '+'
> >>> one = '1'
> >>> two = '2'
> >>> one+op+two
> '1+2'
> >>> eval(one+op+two)
> 3
>
>
> you could also use string formatting.

I see! Concatenate the strings within the "eval()" function. Of
course, it's prudent not to expose "eval" to the outside world. But
for learning purposes ....

Thanks for the input!
-- 
duke

From no.i.dont at want.mail.from.spammers.com  Fri Aug 28 10:18:57 2009
From: no.i.dont at want.mail.from.spammers.com (Fencer)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 16:18:57 +0200
Subject: Sending email
In-Reply-To: <2b3621fd-53fc-4f20-a048-3608894e52af@o9g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
References: <7fpj9tF2clhemU1@mid.individual.net>
	<2b3621fd-53fc-4f20-a048-3608894e52af@o9g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7fq7aiF2mp83gU1@mid.individual.net>

7stud wrote:
[snip]

Thanks for your reply. After consulting the sysadmins here I was able to 
get it to work.

- Fencer


From dukeofperl at ml1.net  Fri Aug 28 10:23:16 2009
From: dukeofperl at ml1.net (Duke Normandin)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 14:23:16 GMT
Subject: Transforming a str to an operator
In-Reply-To: <87skfcblo3.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
References: 
	<87skfcblo3.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 28 Aug 2009, Ben Finney wrote:

> Duke Normandin  writes:
>
> > Hey....
> >
> > I'm a Python noob....
> >
> > So far so good!
> >
> > I've written the following:
> >
> > num1 = raw_input('Enter the first number: ')
> > num2 = raw_input('Enter the second number: ')
> > op = raw_input('Select one of the following [+-*/]: ')
> > print 'The answer is: ', int(num1), eval(op), int(num2)
> >                                     ^^^^^^^^
> >
> > How do I convert the contents of "op" from a string to an actual
> > arithmetic operator? eval() does not seem to be the answer. TIA!
>
> In general, ?eval? on unsanitised input is not the answer.

Agreed! If I were to expose "eval" to the 'net, I would have some
input error checking and "type" checks to insure that only integers
and valid operators were being input.

>
> I would use the following approach:
>
>     import operator
>
>     op_funcs = {
>         '+': operator.add,
>         '-': operator.sub,
>         '*': operator.mul,
>         '/': operator.div,
>         }
>
>     num_1 = int(raw_input('Enter the first number: '))
>     num_2 = int(raw_input('Enter the second number: '))
>     op_prompt = (
>         "Select an operator "
>         + "[" + "".join(s for s in op_funcs.keys()) + "]"
>         + ": ")
>     op_symbol = raw_input(op_prompt)
>     op_func = op_funcs[op_symbol]
>     print 'The answer is: ', op_func(num_1, num_2)
>
> This has several advantages:
>
> * The input isn't evaluated directly as code.
>
> * The operator symbols are specified in one place, the ?op_funcs?
>   mapping; if you want to change the set of possible operators, you just
>   change it there.
>
> * If the input results in an operator that's not defined, it won't
>   attempt to perform it; instead, a simple KeyError will result when
>   trying to find the corresponding operator function.

Cool! Something useful to study...

Thanks for the input!
-- 
duke

From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Aug 28 10:30:00 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 28 Aug 2009 14:30:00 GMT
Subject: Algorithms as objects?
References: 
Message-ID: <00216d63$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 23:05:41 +0000, Kreso wrote:

> I am writing an application that essentially calculates set of numbers,
> say N1, N2, ..., where they can be calculated by several different
> algorithms. (One should be able to choose the algorithm at run time.) In
> each algorithm one starts from a set of functions, say f1, f2, ...,
> which are then transformed into some other functions g1(f1, f2, ..),
> g2(f1, f2, ...), ... , then maybe transformed once more and result is
> obtained by evaluating final functions.

Sounds like you're doing functional programming. There's a rich set of 
functional tools in languages like Haskell, but in Python there's only a 
few, such as partial(). (See the functools module.)

However, you can make your own, using the following general technique. 
Suppose you want to compose two functions, f and g. Then with a helper 
function:

def compose(f, g):
    def composed_function(*args):
        return f(g(*args))
    return composed_function

you can do this:

>>> def add1(x):
...     return x+1
...
>>> def double(y):
...     return 2*y
...
>>> double_plus_one = compose(add1, double)
>>> double_plus_one(3.5)
8.0


Unfortunately, about the only thing you can't do is check the return type 
of functions without actually calling them.




>   I can naturally think about this as a collection of transformation
> blocks, which have functions as input and output, and which can be put
> together to get the final results. However, I am not sure how to program
> this, especially since one cannot subclass function type. To be clear
> let me give simplified example of what is needed:
> 
> f(x) has unknown shape, so one would like to try, say
> 
> f1(x) = ax - b x**2   or    f2(x) = a sin(b*x),
> 
> where a and b are variable parameters.

You need factory functions!

def axbx2_factory(a, b):
    # Return a function that returns a*x-b*x**2
    def inner(x):
        return a*x -b*x**2
    return inner

And in use:

>>> f1 = axbx2_factory(1, 2)
>>> f2 = axbx2_factory(1, 0)
>>> f1(2.5)
-10.0
>>> f1(3.5)
-21.0
>>> f2(2.5)
2.5
>>> f2(3.5)
3.5



Hope this helps.


-- 
Steven


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 10:41:27 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 07:41:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: An assessment of Tkinter and IDLE
References: <55a0833d-3f1f-402a-8eb7-cb4b7861cce5@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Thanks eb303 for the wonderful post

I have looked over the new ttk widgets and everything looks nice. I am
very glad to see the death of Tix as i never much liked it anyhow and
always believed these widgets should have been in the main Tkinter
module to start with. The tree widget has been needed for some time.

However, i am not sure about the new "style" separation. Previously a
simple command like root.option_add('*Label.Font'...) accomplished the
same thing with less typing, but there may be a future method to this
current madness that i am unaware of...???


From rknop at pobox.com  Fri Aug 28 10:51:09 2009
From: rknop at pobox.com (Rob Knop)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 09:51:09 -0500
Subject: write Unicode to sys.out.write without access to sitecustomize.py
Message-ID: <871vmw56w2.fsf@pobox.com>


I would like to tell the system that it's OK to write Unicode to sys.out
and sys.err.  However, I'm doing this in a CGI script where I don't have
access to the system directories, and as such can't use
sys.setdefaultencoding in sitecustomize.py.

Is there a way to make this happen?

-- 
--Rob Knop
  E-mail:    rknop at pobox.com
  Home Page: http://www.pobox.com/~rknop/
  Blog:      http://www.sonic.net/~rknop/blog/


From gb345 at invalid.com  Fri Aug 28 10:58:11 2009
From: gb345 at invalid.com (gb345)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 14:58:11 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Modules/packages by GvR?
Message-ID: 





Are there any Python-only modules or packages in the latest releases
of Python 2.x or Python 3.x that were largely written by Guido van
Rossum?  What's the best way to find this out?  I know that some
modules mention the author(s) in the source code, but this does
not seem to be true most of the time, as far as I can tell.

I'm interested in reading this code as prime examplars of "Pythonicity".
(I'm sure that many other programmers could serve as models of the
Pythonic ideal, but I doubt that there would be a *less debatable*
choice in this category than GvR.)

Many thanks in advance,

Gabe


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Fri Aug 28 10:58:13 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 11:58:13 -0300
Subject: Transforming a str to an operator
References: 
	<87skfcblo3.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<2d56febf0908272150y59e5d458hab1fc6aa9c14187e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

En Fri, 28 Aug 2009 01:50:37 -0300, Xavier Ho   
escribi?:
> On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Ben Finney
> 
>> wrote:
>
>>    op_funcs = {
>>        '+': operator.add,
>>        '-': operator.sub,
>>        '*': operator.mul,
>>        '/': operator.div,
>>        }
>>    op_prompt = "Select an operator ({}):".format(','.join(op for op in
>> op_funcs))

op_prompt = "Select an operator ({}):".format(','.join(op_funcs))

> Just fixing the code a little to be more "Pythonic" ;).

Even more ;)

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Aug 28 11:12:50 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 16:12:50 +0100
Subject: [OT] How do I reply to a thread by sending a message to
	python-list@python.org
In-Reply-To: <2d56febf0908280204k73a41cc0j63717c8ca258ff33@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090827073102.293C91DF2@ctb-mesg8.saix.net>	
			<87k50ob9o9.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<2d56febf0908280204k73a41cc0j63717c8ca258ff33@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

Xavier Ho wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 6:54 PM, Ben Finney
> 
>> wrote:
> 
>> Fortunately, the messages that come from the list enable any mail client
>> to know the correct address for ?reply to list?. It only remains to
>> choose a mail client that knows how to use it.
> 
> 
> Would you be so kind and share with us for such a client that knows how to
> use the mailing list attribute?
> 
> Thanks!
> -Xav
> 
> 
Further to the earlier reply from Albert Hopkins, I use Thunderbird on 
Windows and just hit reply.  The message I reply to is "from Xavier Ho 
" and "to python-list at python.org".  I think this sums 
it up.

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From bouncyinc at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 11:18:06 2009
From: bouncyinc at gmail.com (John Haggerty)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 09:18:06 -0600
Subject: Modules/packages by GvR?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

How is writing code like a language maintainer going to go towards a
philosophic ideal? And more principally why would this be of a benefit. In
the philosophic world dressing and acting like Socrates isn't necessarily
the same as following his ideals and isn't necessarily being Socratic.

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 8:58 AM, gb345  wrote:

>
>
>
>
> Are there any Python-only modules or packages in the latest releases
> of Python 2.x or Python 3.x that were largely written by Guido van
> Rossum?  What's the best way to find this out?  I know that some
> modules mention the author(s) in the source code, but this does
> not seem to be true most of the time, as far as I can tell.
>
> I'm interested in reading this code as prime examplars of "Pythonicity".
> (I'm sure that many other programmers could serve as models of the
> Pythonic ideal, but I doubt that there would be a *less debatable*
> choice in this category than GvR.)
>
> Many thanks in advance,
>
> Gabe
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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From exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  Fri Aug 28 11:22:49 2009
From: exarkun at twistedmatrix.com (exarkun at twistedmatrix.com)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:22:49 -0000
Subject: write Unicode to sys.out.write without access to sitecustomize.py
In-Reply-To: <871vmw56w2.fsf@pobox.com>
References: <871vmw56w2.fsf@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20090828152249.7507.1150495477.divmod.xquotient.5@localhost.localdomain>

On 02:51 pm, rknop at pobox.com wrote:
>
>I would like to tell the system that it's OK to write Unicode to 
>sys.out
>and sys.err.  However, I'm doing this in a CGI script where I don't 
>have
>access to the system directories, and as such can't use
>sys.setdefaultencoding in sitecustomize.py.
>
>Is there a way to make this happen?

Sure, just replace the two files with versions that know how to encode 
the unicode using the correct encoding:

import sys, codecs
info = codecs.lookup('utf-8') # for example
sys.stdout = info.streamwriter(sys.stdout)
sys.stderr = info.streamwriter(sys.stderr)

Jean-Paul


From mccredie at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 11:28:02 2009
From: mccredie at gmail.com (Matimus)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 08:28:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Modules/packages by GvR?
References: 
Message-ID: <789935e7-1952-49bb-8ae1-90b7787d5ff2@r24g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 28, 7:58?am, gb345  wrote:
> Are there any Python-only modules or packages in the latest releases
> of Python 2.x or Python 3.x that were largely written by Guido van
> Rossum? ?What's the best way to find this out? ?I know that some
> modules mention the author(s) in the source code, but this does
> not seem to be true most of the time, as far as I can tell.
>
> I'm interested in reading this code as prime examplars of "Pythonicity".
> (I'm sure that many other programmers could serve as models of the
> Pythonic ideal, but I doubt that there would be a *less debatable*
> choice in this category than GvR.)
>
> Many thanks in advance,
>
> Gabe

I'm sure there are. You might be able to figure that out by browsing
the source repository: http://hg.python.org. But, I wouldn't
necessarily say that any code written by Guido would make a good
example of 'Pythonic' code. Not that he doesn't create good code, but
the language and standards have evolved over time. There may be code
that he wrote from the 2.0 days that may have been perfectly
'Pythonic' then but is just out-of-date now.

In general though, browsing the standard modules is a good way to find
examples, no matter who wrote it. Just keep in mind when it was
written more than who wrote it.

Matt



From jfabiani at yolo.com  Fri Aug 28 11:36:24 2009
From: jfabiani at yolo.com (jfabiani at yolo.com)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 08:36:24 -0700
Subject: why python got less developers ?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

Chris Rebert wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Deep_Feelings
> wrote:
>> python got relatively fewer numbers of developers than other high
>> level languages like .NET , java .. etc ?why ?
> 
> We lack Sun and Microsoft's massive marketing departments. :)

I'm inclined to agreed.  But in recent years we lost a number of developers
to Ruby.  I don't know but I doubt Ruby has a marketing budget.  So in my
mind it is difficult for me to blame just the lack of marketing dollars for
the lost.  

I do take heart in a recent article (on Linux today). that less than 5% of
open source is using C#.  Which tells me that .Net in the open source world
is not doing well. So in my opinion the OP is wrong when he includes .Net
in his assessment of developers.

As far as what the OP is suggesting I'm not to sure it matters how many
total developers are using Python.  Python is always in the top ten of the
languages in use.  And therefore is very popular.  I use it daily. But it
does not mean I don't use other languages too.

Johnf



From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Fri Aug 28 11:42:26 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 08:42:26 -0700
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
In-Reply-To: 
References: 			
	 
Message-ID: <4A97FAE2.4060108@stoneleaf.us>

kj wrote:
> Miles Kaufmann  writes:
>>...because the suite  
>>namespace and the class namespace would get out of sync when different  
>>objects were assigned to the class namespace:
> 
> 
>>class C:
>>  x = 1
>>  def foo(self):
>>      print x
>>      print self.x
> 
> 
>>>>>o = C()
>>>>>o.foo()
>>
>>1
>>1
>>
>>>>>o.x = 2
>>>>>o.foo()
>>
>>1
>>2
> 
> 
> But this unfortunate situation is already possible, because one
> can already define
> 
> class C:
>    x = 1
>    def foo(self):
>        print C.x
>        print self.x
> 
> which would lead to exactly the same thing.
> 

This is not the same thing, and definitely not exactly the same thing. 
In your example you are explicitly stating whether you want the original 
class variable, or the current, and possibly different, instance 
variable.  Further, the instance variable will not be different from the 
class variable, even after C.x = whatever, unless the instance has had 
that variable set specifically for it.

In [1]: class C(object):
    ...:     x = 9
    ...:     def doit(self):
    ...:         print C.x
    ...:         print self.x
    ...:

In [2]: test = C()

In [3]: test.doit()
9
9

In [4]: C.x = 10

In [5]: test.doit()
10
10

In [6]: test.x = 7

In [7]: test.doit()
10
7

~Ethan~


From googleaccount at rumbalski.com  Fri Aug 28 11:43:42 2009
From: googleaccount at rumbalski.com (Steven Rumbalski)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 08:43:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Question on the "csv" library
References: <055885e5-b2ee-4ca7-84d9-238034b8f21d@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <183eb772-dda3-45be-82e3-9160091e066b@v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 27, 3:06?pm, vsoler  wrote:
> I am trying to read a csv file generated by excel.
>
> Although I succeed in reading the file, the format that I get is not
> suitable for me.
>
> I've done:
>
> >>> import csv
> >>> spamReader = csv.reader(open('C:\\abc.csv', 'r'))
> >>> print spamReader
>
> <_csv.reader object at 0x01022E70>
>
> >>> for row in spamReader:
>
> ? ? ? ? print row
>
> ['codigo;nombre;cantidad']
> ['a;qwe;1']
> ['b;asd;2']
> ['c;zxc;3']
>
> My questions are:
>
> 1- Why using "print spamReader" I cannot see the data?
> ? ? I expected to see a list of lists, a kind of a matrix, but I get
> nothing
>
> 2- Why are the rows in a single string?
> ? ?I expected a list of fields that, when text, would be delimited by
> "
> ? To tell the truth, the file generated by excel does not contain the
> strings delimited by ". Isn't it weird?
>
> 3- Is there anything I can do to have my data in a list of lists
> structure? would another kind of data suit better my needs?
>
> Thank you for your help
>
> Vicente Soler

the csv module can handle any delimiter.

change this >>> spamReader = csv.reader(open('C:\\abc.csv', 'r'))
to this >>> spamReader = csv.reader(open('C:\\abc.csv', 'r'),
delimiter=';')

hope this helps,
Steven Rumbalski


From bbxx789_05ss at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 28 11:49:12 2009
From: bbxx789_05ss at yahoo.com (7stud)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 08:49:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Sending email
References: <7fpj9tF2clhemU1@mid.individual.net>
	<2b3621fd-53fc-4f20-a048-3608894e52af@o9g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<7fq7aiF2mp83gU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 28, 8:18?am, Fencer 
wrote:
> 7stud wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> Thanks for your reply. After consulting the sysadmins here I was able to
> get it to work.
>
> - Fencer


Ok, but how about posting your code so that a future searcher will not
be left screaming, "WHAT THE EFF WAS THE SOLUTION!!"


From pavpanchekha at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 11:50:14 2009
From: pavpanchekha at gmail.com (Pavel Panchekha)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 08:50:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Distutils evil voodoo: install into a package
References: <824505df-5534-423e-b72c-06d0f62b376b@p15g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<7fgi5oF2juk72U2@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <08f192f0-fdcd-420d-9152-3873f5b77e59@j19g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>

> This is what whe world has created namespace-packages for. At least if
> you can live with the namespace "pya" being otherwise empty.

That seems like a good solution. Thanks!



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Aug 28 11:56:38 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 16:56:38 +0100
Subject: Modules/packages by GvR?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

[fix top posting]

> On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 8:58 AM, gb345  wrote:
> 
>>
>>
>>
>> Are there any Python-only modules or packages in the latest releases
>> of Python 2.x or Python 3.x that were largely written by Guido van
>> Rossum?  What's the best way to find this out?  I know that some
>> modules mention the author(s) in the source code, but this does
>> not seem to be true most of the time, as far as I can tell.
>>
>> I'm interested in reading this code as prime examplars of "Pythonicity".
>> (I'm sure that many other programmers could serve as models of the
>> Pythonic ideal, but I doubt that there would be a *less debatable*
>> choice in this category than GvR.)
>>
>> Many thanks in advance,
>>
>> Gabe
>> --
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>
> 
John Haggerty wrote:
 > How is writing code like a language maintainer going to go towards a
 > philosophic ideal? And more principally why would this be of a 
benefit. In
 > the philosophic world dressing and acting like Socrates isn't necessarily
 > the same as following his ideals and isn't necessarily being Socratic.
 >

So the poor old BDFL has been reduced to the rank of language 
maintainer.  Is it safe to assume that somebody is organising a whip 
round for him?  Any and all currencies accepted?

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Aug 28 12:09:39 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 12:09:39 -0400
Subject: Modules/packages by GvR?
In-Reply-To: <789935e7-1952-49bb-8ae1-90b7787d5ff2@r24g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<789935e7-1952-49bb-8ae1-90b7787d5ff2@r24g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Matimus wrote:
> On Aug 28, 7:58 am, gb345  wrote:
>> Are there any Python-only modules or packages in the latest releases
>> of Python 2.x or Python 3.x that were largely written by Guido van
>> Rossum?  What's the best way to find this out?  I know that some
>> modules mention the author(s) in the source code, but this does
>> not seem to be true most of the time, as far as I can tell.
>>
>> I'm interested in reading this code as prime examplars of "Pythonicity".
>> (I'm sure that many other programmers could serve as models of the
>> Pythonic ideal, but I doubt that there would be a *less debatable*
>> choice in this category than GvR.)
>>
>> Many thanks in advance,
>>
>> Gabe
> 
> I'm sure there are. You might be able to figure that out by browsing
> the source repository: http://hg.python.org. But, I wouldn't
> necessarily say that any code written by Guido would make a good
> example of 'Pythonic' code. Not that he doesn't create good code, but
> the language and standards have evolved over time. There may be code
> that he wrote from the 2.0 days that may have been perfectly
> 'Pythonic' then but is just out-of-date now.

I am not aware of any recent stdlib modules written by Guido.  I suspect 
most older ones have been updated at least once by someone else.

> In general though, browsing the standard modules is a good way to find
> examples, no matter who wrote it. Just keep in mind when it was
> written more than who wrote it.

The itertools module is relatively recent and has been recommended as 
one to read.



From mark at markroseman.com  Fri Aug 28 12:12:32 2009
From: mark at markroseman.com (Mark Roseman)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 10:12:32 -0600
Subject: An assessment of Tkinter and IDLE
References: <55a0833d-3f1f-402a-8eb7-cb4b7861cce5@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

With regard to Tkinter documentation, and in particular the newer, more 
modern aspects thereof (e.g. ttk, styles, etc.) please have a look at 
the tutorial at http://www.tkdocs.com

Would it be useful to link to this from the main Python Tkinter 
documentation?

Mark


From nagle at animats.com  Fri Aug 28 12:18:11 2009
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 09:18:11 -0700
Subject: Python on the Web
In-Reply-To: <08ac740a-de74-4b5d-94af-35ab4dbe6ecc@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<08ac740a-de74-4b5d-94af-35ab4dbe6ecc@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a9801fa$0$1651$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

Graham Dumpleton wrote:
> A few additional comments on top of what others have said.
> 
> On Aug 26, 11:09 am, Phil  wrote:
>> As I've read elsewhere, "These days, FastCGI is never used directly.

     Actually, FCGI works quite well.  Sitetruth's AdRater
(http://www.sitetruth.com/downloads/adrater.html) uses
FCGI and Python on the server.

     FCGI is basically CGI with process reusability. Each
app gets its own process in its own address space with its
own global interpreter lock.  mod_fcgi in Apache keeps a
supply of such processes around, launching additional ones if there's
heavy request traffic and shutting down existing ones when there
isn't.  Each process handles one transaction after another,
so, unlike CGI, you're not spending all your time loading Python
and its modules.

     Here's the main loop of a real FCGI application.  This uses a small
WSGI library on the Python side.  No "framework" is involved.


#!/usr/local/bin/python
...
from fcgi import WSGIServer
import MySQLdb
db = None	# database connection, held open for life of FCGI
#
#	The application
#
def QuickSitetruthQuery(environ, start_response):
     global db	# static global - active database handle
     try:
         if db :	# if previously attached
             try :
                 db.ping() # test whether connection is still up
             # handle loss of database connection
             except MySQLdb.OperationalError, message:	
                 db = None # we lost database connection
		if db is None :	# if no valid database handle
                     db = miscutils.dbattach(kdbfile)	# connect to database
         status = '200 OK'		# normal status
         headers = [('Content-type','text/xml'), ('charset','utf-8')]
         reqlist = cgi.parse_qsl(environ['QUERY_STRING'])	# Parse params
         priority = 1		# priority of request
         sourceip = environ['REMOTE_ADDR']	# get IP address of client
         urls = []			# list of URLs to check
         for item in reqlist :		# for all items
             (key, value) = item		# extract item
             if key.lower() == 'url' :	# want all "url" items
                 urls.append(value)
             elif key.lower() == 'priority' :	# if priority
                 priority = int(value)	# get priority value
         #	Make request; no waiting, no details
         outstr = InfoDisplay.getratingXMLquick(db, kdbfile, urls,
		priority, sourceip) # get the rating XML, never wait
         start_response(status, headers)		# compose result
         s = kprefixxml + outstr + ksuffixxml	# construct output XML
         return [s.encode('utf8')]		# encode as UTF8
     except Exception, message:		# if trouble, report to user
         #	Error handling
         status = "500 Internal Error on Server"
         response_headers = [("Content-type","text/html")]
         start_response(status, response_headers)
         s = "
Internal error - request not processed.
\n\n"
             + traceback.format_exc()
         s = s.replace("\n","
")	# convert to HTML
         return [s]
#
#	Main FCGI program
#
WSGIServer(QuickSitetruthQuery).run()

					


From bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr  Fri Aug 28 12:32:36 2009
From: bdesth.quelquechose at free.quelquepart.fr (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 18:32:36 +0200
Subject: Python on the Web
In-Reply-To: <4a9812d9$0$1617$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
References: 
	<4a94ef42$0$27774$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	
	<4a96884b$0$22855$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<1b7a2f45-dd10-4722-a9d8-8c6d2464e4d6@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4a97c215$0$16809$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<4a9812d9$0$1617$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <4a98224c$0$437$426a34cc@news.free.fr>

John Nagle a ?crit :
> Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
>> If you're only writing your framework for learning purposes, you could
>> as well go with Python 3, and implement everything from the ground up
>> (not a trivial task FWIW).
> 
>    Python 3 isn't ready for prime time on web servers.  Too many major
> modules,
> haven't been ported yet.

Which ones (sorry, still using 2.5 at work so I didn't bother that much
with 2.6 so far) ?

> MySQLdb is available only up to Python 2.5.  So the basics
> for web work aren't
> ready yet.

I wouldn't label MySQLdb as "a basic for web work" - I mean, something
you just can't do without !-)


From vicente.soler at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 12:35:19 2009
From: vicente.soler at gmail.com (vsoler)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 09:35:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Question on the "csv" library
References: <055885e5-b2ee-4ca7-84d9-238034b8f21d@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<183eb772-dda3-45be-82e3-9160091e066b@v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 28, 5:43?pm, Steven Rumbalski 
wrote:
> On Aug 27, 3:06?pm, vsoler  wrote:
>
>
>
> > I am trying to read a csv file generated by excel.
>
> > Although I succeed in reading the file, the format that I get is not
> > suitable for me.
>
> > I've done:
>
> > >>> import csv
> > >>> spamReader = csv.reader(open('C:\\abc.csv', 'r'))
> > >>> print spamReader
>
> > <_csv.reader object at 0x01022E70>
>
> > >>> for row in spamReader:
>
> > ? ? ? ? print row
>
> > ['codigo;nombre;cantidad']
> > ['a;qwe;1']
> > ['b;asd;2']
> > ['c;zxc;3']
>
> > My questions are:
>
> > 1- Why using "print spamReader" I cannot see the data?
> > ? ? I expected to see a list of lists, a kind of a matrix, but I get
> > nothing
>
> > 2- Why are the rows in a single string?
> > ? ?I expected a list of fields that, when text, would be delimited by
> > "
> > ? To tell the truth, the file generated by excel does not contain the
> > strings delimited by ". Isn't it weird?
>
> > 3- Is there anything I can do to have my data in a list of lists
> > structure? would another kind of data suit better my needs?
>
> > Thank you for your help
>
> > Vicente Soler
>
> the csv module can handle any delimiter.
>
> change this >>> spamReader = csv.reader(open('C:\\abc.csv', 'r'))
> to this >>> spamReader = csv.reader(open('C:\\abc.csv', 'r'),
> delimiter=';')
>
> hope this helps,
> Steven Rumbalski

Thank you very much for all your comments. After reading them I can
conclude that:

1- the CSV format is not standardized; each piece of software uses it
differently

2- the "C" in "CSV" does not mean "comma" for Microsoft Excel; the ";"
comes from my regional Spanish settings

3- Excel does not even put quotes around litteral texts, not even when
the text contains a blank

But, perhaps, there is no standard alternative to CSV !!!


From benjamin at python.org  Fri Aug 28 12:35:40 2009
From: benjamin at python.org (Benjamin Peterson)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 16:35:40 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Modules/packages by GvR?
References: 
	<789935e7-1952-49bb-8ae1-90b7787d5ff2@r24g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Terry Reedy  udel.edu> writes
> 
> I am not aware of any recent stdlib modules written by Guido.  I suspect 
> most older ones have been updated at least once by someone else.

Guido wrote a good deal of the new Python 3 code. However, maintence has now
turned over to over Python developers. For example, I now maintain 2to3 and the
io library, both of which were originally written by Guido.

> 
> > In general though, browsing the standard modules is a good way to find
> > examples, no matter who wrote it. Just keep in mind when it was
> > written more than who wrote it.
> 
> The itertools module is relatively recent and has been recommended as 
> one to read.

That probably don't do much good for your sense of Pythonicity, since it's
written in C. :)



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Fri Aug 28 12:41:35 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:41:35 -0300
Subject: Object's nesting scope
References: 
	<2751e263-ace0-4649-997c-1302d0f3b320@m20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	<03269cff-acd9-401a-b98d-0b1136b0d2e0@s13g2000yql.googlegroups.com>
	<2c78ef30-3af6-45bd-b772-e09d895b0cd8@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

En Thu, 27 Aug 2009 12:43:55 -0300, zaur  escribi?:
> On 27 ???, 19:19, Carl Banks  wrote:
>> On Aug 27, 8:01?am, zaur  wrote:
>> > On 27 ???, 18:34, Carl Banks  wrote:
>> > > The idea has been
>> > > discussed in various forms here quite a bit over the years. ?I doubt
>> > > there's any chance it'll be accepted into Python, because it goes
>> > > against one of the main design points of Python: that attributes
>> > > should always be accessed explicitly.
>>
> In my opinion idea of using object's dictionary as nested scope is
> more about structuring code blocks rather than just saving typing and
> implicit attribute access.

But you *are* doing implicit attribute access. Anyway, the topic was  
raised and rejected several times in the past; see this recent thread in  
the python-ideas list:
http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.ideas/5518

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Fri Aug 28 13:02:32 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 14:02:32 -0300
Subject: Question on the "csv" library
References: <055885e5-b2ee-4ca7-84d9-238034b8f21d@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<183eb772-dda3-45be-82e3-9160091e066b@v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

En Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:35:19 -0300, vsoler   
escribi?:

> On Aug 28, 5:43?pm, Steven Rumbalski 
> wrote:
>> On Aug 27, 3:06?pm, vsoler  wrote:

>> > I am trying to read a csv file generated by excel.
>> > ['a;qwe;1']
>> > ['b;asd;2']
>> > ['c;zxc;3']
>
> Thank you very much for all your comments. After reading them I can
> conclude that:
>
> 1- the CSV format is not standardized; each piece of software uses it
> differently

Yes! And that's part of the pain of working with 'csv' files.

> 2- the "C" in "CSV" does not mean "comma" for Microsoft Excel; the ";"
> comes from my regional Spanish settings

Yes - but not just Excel, other programs do call "CSV" files that are  
TAB-separated, by example.

> 3- Excel does not even put quotes around litteral texts, not even when
> the text contains a blank

I guess you'll get quotes around text containing ';' characters

> But, perhaps, there is no standard alternative to CSV !!!

Of course there are! You may use SYLK, DIFF, XML, XDR...

"The nice thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from."  
(Andrew S. Tanenbaum)

But look for the xlrd package, it lets you read Excel files directly from  
Python.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From dns4 at cornell.edu  Fri Aug 28 13:06:09 2009
From: dns4 at cornell.edu (David Smith)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:06:09 -0400
Subject: Question on the "csv" library
In-Reply-To: 
References: <055885e5-b2ee-4ca7-84d9-238034b8f21d@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<183eb772-dda3-45be-82e3-9160091e066b@v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

vsoler wrote:
> 
> Thank you very much for all your comments. After reading them I can
> conclude that:
> 
> 1- the CSV format is not standardized; each piece of software uses it
> differently

True, but there are commonalities.  See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comma-separated_values

> 
> 2- the "C" in "CSV" does not mean "comma" for Microsoft Excel; the ";"
> comes from my regional Spanish settings

The C really does stand for comma.  I've never seen MS spit out
semi-colon separated text on a CSV format.

> 
> 3- Excel does not even put quotes around litteral texts, not even when
> the text contains a blank

There is no need to quote text literals with whitespace in them.  There
is a need when a newline exists or when the separator character is
embedded in the field.


--David


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Fri Aug 28 13:09:52 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 14:09:52 -0300
Subject: Raw data extraction question
References: <250bf47b-6307-435a-b991-caee359c4ccf@n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

En Wed, 26 Aug 2009 12:18:23 -0300, Maggie  escribi?:

> i have event timing stretch of code i need to alter. here is code
> below:
> --------------
> # we start each run with one full silent trial
> # creating a "stub" with the duration of a full block
> # less the discarded acquisitions
> stub = block_dur - (distax * tr)
>
> feed = sys.stdin.readlines()
> sess = -1
> for line in feed:
>     if re.search(line != rest):
> 	   time = (line + line (-1)) + (distax * tr)
> 	  		print time
>
> 	 elif (line(-1) = rest):
> 	    # block onsets are determined by
> 	    # block number, block duration,
> 	    # and the stub; 3dDeconvolve
>             # takes care of making these
> 	    # "global"
>         	time = (line) + (distax * tr)
> 	    	print time
> -----

When you post some piece of code, copy & paste it from the original  
source; don't retype. The code above don't even compile.

> my concern is that it is extracting line number and not data contained
> on a given line. I need it to extract data from each line (excluding
> lines with spaces and/or lines that contain the word "pause" or
> "silence"). Basically i need ONLY raw data extracted from line 1 -
> onward.

How does a line look like? Post some sample lines.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Aug 28 13:14:36 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 18:14:36 +0100
Subject: Question on the "csv" library
In-Reply-To: 
References: <055885e5-b2ee-4ca7-84d9-238034b8f21d@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>	<183eb772-dda3-45be-82e3-9160091e066b@v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

vsoler wrote:
> On Aug 28, 5:43 pm, Steven Rumbalski 
> wrote:
>> On Aug 27, 3:06 pm, vsoler  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> I am trying to read a csv file generated by excel.
>>> Although I succeed in reading the file, the format that I get is not
>>> suitable for me.
>>> I've done:
>>>>>> import csv
>>>>>> spamReader = csv.reader(open('C:\\abc.csv', 'r'))
>>>>>> print spamReader
>>> <_csv.reader object at 0x01022E70>
>>>>>> for row in spamReader:
>>>         print row
>>> ['codigo;nombre;cantidad']
>>> ['a;qwe;1']
>>> ['b;asd;2']
>>> ['c;zxc;3']
>>> My questions are:
>>> 1- Why using "print spamReader" I cannot see the data?
>>>     I expected to see a list of lists, a kind of a matrix, but I get
>>> nothing
>>> 2- Why are the rows in a single string?
>>>    I expected a list of fields that, when text, would be delimited by
>>> "
>>>   To tell the truth, the file generated by excel does not contain the
>>> strings delimited by ". Isn't it weird?
>>> 3- Is there anything I can do to have my data in a list of lists
>>> structure? would another kind of data suit better my needs?
>>> Thank you for your help
>>> Vicente Soler
>> the csv module can handle any delimiter.
>>
>> change this >>> spamReader = csv.reader(open('C:\\abc.csv', 'r'))
>> to this >>> spamReader = csv.reader(open('C:\\abc.csv', 'r'),
>> delimiter=';')
>>
>> hope this helps,
>> Steven Rumbalski
> 
> Thank you very much for all your comments. After reading them I can
> conclude that:
> 
> 1- the CSV format is not standardized; each piece of software uses it
> differently
> 
> 2- the "C" in "CSV" does not mean "comma" for Microsoft Excel; the ";"
> comes from my regional Spanish settings
> 
> 3- Excel does not even put quotes around litteral texts, not even when
> the text contains a blank
> 
> But, perhaps, there is no standard alternative to CSV !!!
This depends on the use case of yourself or your users.  If you could 
give more detail on what you are trying to achieve then I'm sure that 
more help will be forthcoming.  For example, could the file be saved in
Excel 97-2003 xls format and then processed with the excellent 
xlrd/xlwt/xlutils? They are available here:-
http://pypi.python.org/pypi/xlutils/1.4.0

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From hniksic at xemacs.org  Fri Aug 28 13:19:44 2009
From: hniksic at xemacs.org (Hrvoje Niksic)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 19:19:44 +0200
Subject: Question on the "csv" library
References: <055885e5-b2ee-4ca7-84d9-238034b8f21d@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<183eb772-dda3-45be-82e3-9160091e066b@v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <87ocpzdff3.fsf@busola.homelinux.net>

David Smith  writes:

>> 2- the "C" in "CSV" does not mean "comma" for Microsoft Excel; the ";"
>> comes from my regional Spanish settings
>
> The C really does stand for comma.  I've never seen MS spit out
> semi-colon separated text on a CSV format.

That's because you're running MS Office in a US language environment.
In almost all of Europe MS products use comma as the decimal separator,
and semicolon for CSV field separation.


From no.email at please.post  Fri Aug 28 13:23:37 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:23:37 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Need help with Python scoping rules
References: 			
	 
	
Message-ID: 

In  Ethan Furman  writes:

>kj wrote:
>> Miles Kaufmann  writes:
>>>...because the suite  
>>>namespace and the class namespace would get out of sync when different  
>>>objects were assigned to the class namespace:
>> 
>> 
>>>class C:
>>>  x = 1
>>>  def foo(self):
>>>      print x
>>>      print self.x
>> 
>> 
>>>>>>o = C()
>>>>>>o.foo()
>>>
>>>1
>>>1
>>>
>>>>>>o.x = 2
>>>>>>o.foo()
>>>
>>>1
>>>2
>> 
>> 
>> But this unfortunate situation is already possible, because one
>> can already define
>> 
>> class C:
>>    x = 1
>>    def foo(self):
>>        print C.x
>>        print self.x
>> 
>> which would lead to exactly the same thing.
>> 

>This is not the same thing, and definitely not exactly the same thing. 

Thanks for the clarification!

kynn



From rt8396 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 13:27:15 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 10:27:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: An assessment of Tkinter and IDLE
References: <55a0833d-3f1f-402a-8eb7-cb4b7861cce5@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <1010dd16-fa92-46b6-8391-b8a701704472@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 28, 11:12?am, Mark Roseman  wrote:
> Would it be useful to link to this from the main Python Tkinter
> documentation?
>
> Mark

Thanks Mark, but i would hate to see more links to TCL code in the
python docs. Whats the use of Tkinter if the docs are in TCL. Just
learn TCL and skip the Python middleman. But i don;t want to code in
TCL (*puke*) i much prefer Python even if i am calling wrapped TCL.
Not to mention this link is not a complete coverage of all the widgets
anyway.

We desperately need a complete reference for tkinter written with only
Python code that covers all widgets, all widget options, and all
widget methods. And this would be a minimal effort if someone would
just do it. Most of the information is already out there in various
locations around the net. We just need to compile, compress, and edit
it into one short and to the point reference material.

I will happily volunteer to create on my own or contribute to the docs
if i can get a guarantee from the tkinter maintainer that my work
would not be in vain.


From nagle at animats.com  Fri Aug 28 13:30:09 2009
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 10:30:09 -0700
Subject: Python on the Web
In-Reply-To: <4a97c215$0$16809$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
References: 
	<4a94ef42$0$27774$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	
	<4a96884b$0$22855$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<1b7a2f45-dd10-4722-a9d8-8c6d2464e4d6@e27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4a97c215$0$16809$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <4a9812d9$0$1617$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
> If you're only writing your framework for learning purposes, you could 
> as well go with Python 3, and implement everything from the ground up 
> (not a trivial task FWIW).

    Python 3 isn't ready for prime time on web servers.  Too many major modules,
haven't been ported yet.  Twisted and Django are now available up to Python 2.6; 
MySQLdb is available only up to Python 2.5.  So the basics for web work aren't
ready yet.

    Python 2.5 is more or less the "stable" version of Python for production
use at the moment.  2.6 is a transition version to 3.0.

				John Nagle


From breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Aug 28 13:44:22 2009
From: breamoreboy at yahoo.co.uk (Mark Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 18:44:22 +0100
Subject: An assessment of Tkinter and IDLE
In-Reply-To: <1010dd16-fa92-46b6-8391-b8a701704472@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
References: <55a0833d-3f1f-402a-8eb7-cb4b7861cce5@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	
	<1010dd16-fa92-46b6-8391-b8a701704472@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

r wrote:
> On Aug 28, 11:12 am, Mark Roseman  wrote:
>> Would it be useful to link to this from the main Python Tkinter
>> documentation?
>>
>> Mark
> 
> Thanks Mark, but i would hate to see more links to TCL code in the
> python docs. Whats the use of Tkinter if the docs are in TCL. Just
> learn TCL and skip the Python middleman. But i don;t want to code in
> TCL (*puke*) i much prefer Python even if i am calling wrapped TCL.
> Not to mention this link is not a complete coverage of all the widgets
> anyway.
> 
> We desperately need a complete reference for tkinter written with only
> Python code that covers all widgets, all widget options, and all
> widget methods. And this would be a minimal effort if someone would
> just do it. Most of the information is already out there in various
> locations around the net. We just need to compile, compress, and edit
> it into one short and to the point reference material.
> 
> I will happily volunteer to create on my own or contribute to the docs
> if i can get a guarantee from the tkinter maintainer that my work
> would not be in vain.
Please go ahead and try it.  Having read the "Summary of Python tracker 
Issues" on the python-dev mailing list, and followed from there to the 
bug tracker, it seems that all input is greatly appreciated.  For the 
small issues the reply is often "Thanks, done".  Some things get 
rejected, and usually rightly so from what I can see.  Others the issue 
is closed with the half way house committed/rejected.  Work that out for 
yourself if you can.:)

-- 
Kindest regards.

Mark Lawrence.



From warpcat at sbcglobal.net  Fri Aug 28 14:13:06 2009
From: warpcat at sbcglobal.net (AK Eric)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 11:13:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Query screen resolution?
Message-ID: <7d57e7c2-39bf-4515-8642-6bcbeba0492c@u16g2000pru.googlegroups.com>

Thought this would be easy, maybe I'm missing something :)  Trying to
query the x,y resolution of my screen.  I've seen this available
through http://python.net/crew/mhammond/win32/ :

from win32api import GetSystemMetrics
print "width =", GetSystemMetrics (0)
print "height =",GetSystemMetrics (1)

But I was hoping for something built-in, and something non-OS
specific.  Is that available?  Would be nice to detect for multiple
monitors as well, but I'm probably asking too much :)

Thanks!


From szport at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 14:25:55 2009
From: szport at gmail.com (zaur)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 11:25:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Object's nesting scope
References: 
	<7fkqodF2llnghU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<1ea2a98f-4035-4ec6-b5a9-06b21dd6f584@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4a97c851$0$307$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
Message-ID: <440b8caf-27f9-49d4-8d1b-94f93c75eb23@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

On 28 ???, 16:07, Bruno Desthuilliers  wrote:
> zaur a ?crit :
>
>
>
> > On 26 ???, 17:13, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
> >> Whom am we to judge? Sure if you propose this, you have some usecases in
> >> mind - how about you present these
>
> > Ok. Here is a use case: object initialization.
>
> > For example,
>
> > person = Person():
> > ? name = "john"
> > ? age = 30
> > ? address = Address():
> > ? ? ?street = "Green Street"
> > ? ? ?no = 12
>
> > vs.
>
> > person = Person()
> > person.name = "john"
> > person.age = 30
> > address = person.address = Address()
> > address.street = "Green Street"
> > address.no = 12
>
> Err... Looks like you really should read the FineManual(tm) -
> specifically, the parts on the __init__ method.
>
> class Person(object):
> ? ? def __init__(self, name, age, address):
> ? ? ? ? self.name = name
> ? ? ? ? self.age = age
> ? ? ? ? self.address = address
>
> class Address(object):
> ? ? def __init__(self, street, no):
> ? ? ? ? self.no = no
> ? ? ? ? self.street = street
>
> person = Person(
> ? ? name="john",
> ? ? age=30,
> ? ? address = Address(
> ? ? ? ? street="Green Street",
> ? ? ? ? no=12
> ? ? )
> )

What are you doing if 1) classes Person and Address imported from
foreign module 2) __init__ method is not defined as you want?


From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 14:27:15 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 11:27:15 -0700
Subject: Query screen resolution?
In-Reply-To: <7d57e7c2-39bf-4515-8642-6bcbeba0492c@u16g2000pru.googlegroups.com>
References: <7d57e7c2-39bf-4515-8642-6bcbeba0492c@u16g2000pru.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

> But I was hoping for something built-in, and something non-OS
> specific.

I don't know about built-ins, but I do believe that pygame (which *is*  
cross-platform) will let you get at that information:
	http://www.pygame.org/docs/ref/display.html#pygame.display.Info

On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 11:13:06 -0700, AK Eric  wrote:

> Thought this would be easy, maybe I'm missing something :)  Trying to
> query the x,y resolution of my screen.  I've seen this available
> through http://python.net/crew/mhammond/win32/ :
>
> from win32api import GetSystemMetrics
> print "width =", GetSystemMetrics (0)
> print "height =",GetSystemMetrics (1)
>
> But I was hoping for something built-in, and something non-OS
> specific.  Is that available?  Would be nice to detect for multiple
> monitors as well, but I'm probably asking too much :)
>
> Thanks!



-- 
Rami Chowdhury
"Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --  
Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)


From gert.cuykens at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 14:31:31 2009
From: gert.cuykens at gmail.com (gert)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 11:31:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: how to edit .wsgi file extebtions with IDLE on windows
Message-ID: 

I can't figure out how to enable the .py shell and syntax highlighting
for .wsgi file extensions using IDLE for windows ?


From davea at ieee.org  Fri Aug 28 14:35:35 2009
From: davea at ieee.org (Dave Angel)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 14:35:35 -0400
Subject: Select column from a list
In-Reply-To: <25185508.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <25185508.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <4A982377.7020402@ieee.org>

hoffik wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm quite new in Python and I have one question. I have a 2D matrix of
> values stored in list (3 columns, many rows). I wonder if I can select one
> column without having to go through the list with 'for' command.
>
> For example I have list called 'values'.
> When I write 'values[0]' or 'values[0][:]' I'll get the first row.
> But when I write 'values[:][0]' I won't get the first column, but the first
> row again! I can't see why.
>
> Thanks
> Hoffik
>   
Python doesn't have 2d matrices as a native type.  Others have already 
suggested Numpy.  But I'll assume you really want to stick with what's 
included in base Python, because you're still learning.  (Aren't we all?)

The real question to me is how this data is related to each other.  If 
it's uniform data, organized in a 3x20 rectangle, or whatever, then 
maybe you want to use a single list, and just use slicing to extract 
particular rows and columns.  You were actually using slicing in your 
example above;  that's what the colon does.  But in your case, you used 
defaults for the 3 arguments, so you got a *copy* of the entire list.

Slicing to get one row would be simply    values[row*3:(row+1)*3], and 
one column would be print values[column: -1: 3]

Notice that I hardcoded the width of our "matrix," since list doesn't 
know anything about it.  And notice it's easy to add more rows, but not 
easy to change row size, because that's not part of the structure, but 
part of the code to access it.

Next possibility is to make a class to describe the data structure.  You 
can make methods that mimic the behavior you want.

But I suspect that the row is 3 specific values, maybe not even the same 
type as each other.  So they might be name, address, and phone number.  
Each row represents a family, and each column represents a type of 
data.  In this case, I'd suggest making each row an instance of a new 
class you define, and making a list of those objects.

Now, you might be representing a row by an object of your class.  And 
representing a column by two things:   your list & an accessor method 
that knows how to extract that particular field.

DaveA



From matthew.bellis at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 14:36:51 2009
From: matthew.bellis at gmail.com (Matt Bellis)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 11:36:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to exclude "import"s from PyDoc
References: 
	<7flt66F2lho6lU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <613fc599-609a-4df3-b46b-8bba6297da55@i8g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

Hi Diez,

  Thanks for the heads up. I'll give epydoc a shot.

Matt



>
> > ? ?Anyone know the best way to getPyDocto ignore this (or other)
> > imported module(s)?
>
> Don't know aboutpydoc, but epydoc (which generates much nicer docs
> imho) can be forced to only include certain packages.
>
> Diez



From xiaosongxia at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 28 14:38:30 2009
From: xiaosongxia at yahoo.com (xiaosong xia)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 11:38:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: copy construtor question
Message-ID: <613204.64791.qm@web53105.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hi all,
?
I am trying to define a class with copy constructor as following:
?
class test:
???? def __init__(self, s=None):
????????? self=s
?
x=[1,2]
?
y=test(x)
?
print y.__dict__
?
it gives 
{}
?
The above code doesn't work. 
?
Questions are:
?
1. Can 'self ' be a class attribute?
2. How to make a copy constructor?
?
Thanks for any help.
?
Eric


      
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From warpcat at sbcglobal.net  Fri Aug 28 14:49:16 2009
From: warpcat at sbcglobal.net (Warpcat)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 11:49:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Query screen resolution?
References: <7d57e7c2-39bf-4515-8642-6bcbeba0492c@u16g2000pru.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <04a85dc7-d1e7-4566-9ee9-fa9090b45543@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 28, 11:27?am, "Rami Chowdhury" 
wrote:
> > But I was hoping for something built-in, and something non-OS
> > specific.
>
> I don't know about built-ins, but I do believe that pygame (which *is* ?
> cross-platform) will let you get at that information:
> ? ? ? ?http://www.pygame.org/docs/ref/display.html#pygame.display.Info

Actually, I just came up with another hack using PyGame as well like
so:

screen = pygame.display.set_mode((0,0))
WIDTH, HEIGHT = screen.get_size()

If you pass zero values into the resolution, it will pop to the
current screen resolution.  And since I'm making a PyGame app, this
actually works out ok.  However, querying the current_w & current_h
attrs from the Info object is a lot cleaner (I was unaware of that,
thanks!)

But I'd sure like to know if there is built-in way.



From somebody at somewhere.com  Fri Aug 28 14:57:28 2009
From: somebody at somewhere.com (Stephen Fairchild)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 19:57:28 +0100
Subject: Select column from a list
References: 
Message-ID: 

hoffik wrote:

> 
> Hello,
> 
> I'm quite new in Python and I have one question. I have a 2D matrix of
> values stored in list (3 columns, many rows). I wonder if I can select one
> column without having to go through the list with 'for' command.
> 
> For example I have list called 'values'.
> When I write 'values[0]' or 'values[0][:]' I'll get the first row.
> But when I write 'values[:][0]' I won't get the first column, but the
> first row again! I can't see why.

rows = [(1, 5, 9), (2, 6, 10), (3, 7, 11), (4, 8, 12)]
cols = zip(*rows)

To just get the second column:

zip(*rows)[1]
-- 
Stephen Fairchild


From vicente.soler at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 14:58:48 2009
From: vicente.soler at gmail.com (vsoler)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 11:58:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Colors on IDLE
Message-ID: 

Everything that I see in IDLE is in black.

I have tried to add colors, without success.

I've tried:  /Options/Configure IDLE/Highlighting/IDLE Classic


From vicente.soler at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 15:00:21 2009
From: vicente.soler at gmail.com (vsoler)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 12:00:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Colors on IDLE
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 28, 8:58?pm, vsoler  wrote:
> Everything that I see in IDLE is in black.
>
> I have tried to add colors, without success.
>
> I've tried: ?/Options/Configure IDLE/Highlighting/IDLE Classic

Couldn't finish writing...   sorry
-----------------------------------

Everything that I see in IDLE is in black.

I have tried to add colors, without success.

I've tried:  /Options/Configure IDLE/Highlighting/IDLE Classic

However, everything remains black. Any help is highly appreciated

Vicente Soler


From pfeldman at verizon.net  Fri Aug 28 15:00:31 2009
From: pfeldman at verizon.net (Dr. Phillip M. Feldman)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 12:00:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: comparison on list yields surprising result
Message-ID: <25195170.post@talk.nabble.com>


In [21]: x
Out[21]: [1, 2, 3, 5]

In [22]: x>6
Out[22]: True

Is this a bug?
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/comparison-on-list-yields-surprising-result-tp25195170p25195170.html
Sent from the Python - python-list mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Fri Aug 28 15:00:36 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 12:00:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Question on the "csv" library
References: <055885e5-b2ee-4ca7-84d9-238034b8f21d@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<183eb772-dda3-45be-82e3-9160091e066b@v2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 29, 2:35?am, vsoler  wrote:

> 3- Excel does not even put quotes around litteral texts, not even when
> the text contains a blank

Correct. Quoting is necessary only if a text field contains a
delimiter (semicolon/comma), a newline, or the quote character.

You can read Excel CSV output using the Python csv module by
specifying delimiter=";"

If you need to feed a CSV file to some software that demands that text
fields be quoted unconditionally, you have at least two options:

(1) If you know which fields should be text fields, you can read the
Excel-output file with Python csv, convert your non-text fields to
float, and write it back out with quoting=csv.QUOTE_NONNUMERIC.

(2) If you want precise control (and thus precise knowledge), use xlrd
(http://pypi.python.org/pypi/xlrd) to read Excel 97-2003 .xls files --
it will tell you cell by cell (NOT column by column (the user has
control of the type at the cell level)) whether the cell contains text
(reported as a unicode object), a number (float), a Boolean (int, 1 or
0), a date (float, days since ? (read the docs)), or an error code
e.g. #DIV/0! (int, read the docs) ... then you can write it out
however you like.

HTH,
John


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Fri Aug 28 15:16:59 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 12:16:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: comparison on list yields surprising result
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 29, 5:00?am, "Dr. Phillip M. Feldman" 
wrote:
> In [21]: x
> Out[21]: [1, 2, 3, 5]
>
> In [22]: x>6
> Out[22]: True
>
> Is this a bug?

No.

http://docs.python.org/reference/expressions.html#notin




From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Aug 28 15:19:43 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 21:19:43 +0200
Subject: comparison on list yields surprising result
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A982DCF.2060201@nospam.web.de>

Dr. Phillip M. Feldman schrieb:
> In [21]: x
> Out[21]: [1, 2, 3, 5]
> 
> In [22]: x>6
> Out[22]: True
> 
> Is this a bug?

In python2.x, it's the defined behavior - all types are somhow 
comparable. The comparison is stable (all lists compare larger to all 
ints), but of course this by no means well-defined.

This debatable design-decision has been remedied in Python3:

Python 3.1 (r31:73578, Jun 27 2009, 21:49:46)
[GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Inc. build 5493)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> list(range(10)) < 10
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "", line 1, in 
TypeError: unorderable types: list() < int()
 >>>





Diez


From deets at nospam.web.de  Fri Aug 28 15:19:58 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 21:19:58 +0200
Subject: comparison on list yields surprising result
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7fqouuF2mlupvU2@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Dr. Phillip M. Feldman schrieb:
> In [21]: x
> Out[21]: [1, 2, 3, 5]
> 
> In [22]: x>6
> Out[22]: True
> 
> Is this a bug?

In python2.x, it's the defined behavior - all types are somhow 
comparable. The comparison is stable (all lists compare larger to all 
ints), but of course this by no means well-defined.

This debatable design-decision has been remedied in Python3:

Python 3.1 (r31:73578, Jun 27 2009, 21:49:46)
[GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Inc. build 5493)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> list(range(10)) < 10
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "", line 1, in 
TypeError: unorderable types: list() < int()
 >>>





Diez


From motoom at xs4all.nl  Fri Aug 28 15:23:12 2009
From: motoom at xs4all.nl (Michiel Overtoom)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 21:23:12 +0200
Subject: An assessment of Tkinter and IDLE
In-Reply-To: <1010dd16-fa92-46b6-8391-b8a701704472@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
References: <55a0833d-3f1f-402a-8eb7-cb4b7861cce5@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	
	<1010dd16-fa92-46b6-8391-b8a701704472@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A982EA0.10808@xs4all.nl>

r wrote:

> Whats the use of Tkinter if the docs are in TCL. Just
> learn TCL and skip the Python middleman. 

But Mark's tutorial at http://www.tkdocs.com/tutorial/index.html allows 
you to select 'Python' as one of the languages you want to see the 
example code in.

Too bad that the 'ttk' widgets are not mainstream yet.

Greetings,

-- 
"The ability of the OSS process to collect and harness
the collective IQ of thousands of individuals across
the Internet is simply amazing." - Vinod Valloppillil
http://www.catb.org/~esr/halloween/halloween4.html


From gert.cuykens at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 15:24:25 2009
From: gert.cuykens at gmail.com (gert)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 12:24:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: how to send 100 continues in wsgi application ?
Message-ID: 

how do you send 100 continues in a wsgi applications ?

when using curl -T file http://localhost/upload.wsgi on the
wsgiref.simple_server it get stuck waiting for a 100 continue

import os

def application(environ, response):
    query=os.path.join(os.path.dirname(__file__),'teeeeeeeeeemp')
    range=environ.get('HTTP_CONTENT_RANGE','bytes 0-').replace('bytes
','').split('/')[0].split(',')
    offset=[]
    for r in range: offset.append(r.split('-'))
    with open(query,'ab+') as f:
         if environ['REQUEST_METHOD']=='PUT':
             f.seek(int(offset[0][0]))
             f.truncate()
             while True:
                 chunk=environ['wsgi.input'].read(8192)
                 if not chunk: break
                 f.write(chunk)
             f.flush()
         l=str(os.fstat(f.fileno()).st_size)
    response('200 OK', [('Content-Type', 'text/plain'), ('Content-
Length', str(len(l)))])
    return [l]





From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Aug 28 15:29:09 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 28 Aug 2009 12:29:09 -0700
Subject: Overriding iadd for dictionary like objects
References: 
	
	
	<21e57363-4e92-41cb-9907-5aef96ad0a6e@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

In article <21e57363-4e92-41cb-9907-5aef96ad0a6e at o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
RunThePun   wrote:
>
>Anybody have any more ideas? I think python should/could havev a
>syntax for overriding this behaviour, i mean, obviously the complexity
>of supporting all operators with the getitem syntax could introduce
>alot of clutter. But maybe there's an elegant solution out there...

Any solution you create must support this:

>>> L = [3]
>>> L[0] += 7
>>> L
[10]
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I support family values -- Addams family values" --www.nancybuttons.com


From pfeldman at verizon.net  Fri Aug 28 15:47:13 2009
From: pfeldman at verizon.net (Dr. Phillip M. Feldman)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 12:47:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: comparison on list yields surprising result
In-Reply-To: <4A982DCF.2060201@nospam.web.de>
References: <25195170.post@talk.nabble.com> <4A982DCF.2060201@nospam.web.de>
Message-ID: <25195893.post@talk.nabble.com>


It looks as though what I should have done is the following:

In [23]: array(x) > 6
Out[23]: array([False, False, False, False], dtype=bool)
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/comparison-on-list-yields-surprising-result-tp25195170p25195893.html
Sent from the Python - python-list mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From clp2 at rebertia.com  Fri Aug 28 15:55:11 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 12:55:11 -0700
Subject: Colors on IDLE
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908281255n1f17d4c9l335c39a3acd5c7c4@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 12:00 PM, vsoler wrote:
> On Aug 28, 8:58?pm, vsoler  wrote:
>> Everything that I see in IDLE is in black.
>>
>> I have tried to add colors, without success.
>>
>> I've tried: ?/Options/Configure IDLE/Highlighting/IDLE Classic
>
> Couldn't finish writing... ? sorry
> -----------------------------------
>
> Everything that I see in IDLE is in black.
>
> I have tried to add colors, without success.
>
> I've tried: ?/Options/Configure IDLE/Highlighting/IDLE Classic
>
> However, everything remains black. Any help is highly appreciated

What OS are you on?

- Chris


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 16:03:40 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:03:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Overriding iadd for dictionary like objects
References: 
	
	 
	
	<21e57363-4e92-41cb-9907-5aef96ad0a6e@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 26, 11:49?pm, RunThePun  wrote:
> Anybody have any more ideas? I think python should/could havev a
> syntax for overriding this behaviour, i mean, obviously the complexity
> of supporting all operators with the getitem syntax could introduce
> alot of clutter. But maybe there's an elegant solution out there...

I don't think it needs a syntax for that, but I'm not so sure a method
to modify a value in place with a single key lookup wouldn't
occasioanally be useful.

For instance:

   def increment(value):
       return value+1
   d = { 'a': 1 }
   d.apply_to_value('a',increment)
   print d

and d['a'] would be 2.  The difference is that only one lookup
occurs.  (The dictionary would be locked to modifications while the
callback function is called, same as if it were being iterated over.)

Thing is, there's no way to get that ability except subclass dict in
C; can't be done from Python.  Which is why even though it'd be a
pretty rare need it at least deserves a bit of consideration before
being tabled.

As a workaround, if lookups are expensive, you can add an indirection
to the dict.  For example, you could let each value in the dict be a
singleton list which is permanently bound to the key.  Then you only
have look up the key once to modify the value.

    d = { 'a': [1] }
    ston = d['a']
    ston[0] += 3

and now d['a'][0] is 4, and there was only one dict lookup.  Downside
is that you have the [0] to carry around, but that is the price of
indirection.  A wrapper class might help.


Carl Banks


From mwilson at the-wire.com  Fri Aug 28 16:38:55 2009
From: mwilson at the-wire.com (Mel)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 16:38:55 -0400
Subject: Object's nesting scope
References: 
	<7fkqodF2llnghU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<1ea2a98f-4035-4ec6-b5a9-06b21dd6f584@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4a97c851$0$307$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<440b8caf-27f9-49d4-8d1b-94f93c75eb23@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

zaur wrote:

> On 28 ???, 16:07, Bruno Desthuilliers  42.desthuilli... at websiteburo.invalid> wrote:
>> zaur a ?crit :
>>
>>
>>
>> > On 26 ???, 17:13, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
>> >> Whom am we to judge? Sure if you propose this, you have some usecases
>> >> in mind - how about you present these
>>
>> > Ok. Here is a use case: object initialization.
>>
>> > For example,
>>
>> > person = Person():
>> > name = "john"
>> > age = 30
>> > address = Address():
>> > street = "Green Street"
>> > no = 12
>>
>> > vs.
>>
>> > person = Person()
>> > person.name = "john"
>> > person.age = 30
>> > address = person.address = Address()
>> > address.street = "Green Street"
>> > address.no = 12
>>
>> Err... Looks like you really should read the FineManual(tm) -
>> specifically, the parts on the __init__ method.
>>
>> class Person(object):
>> def __init__(self, name, age, address):
>> self.name = name
>> self.age = age
>> self.address = address
>>
>> class Address(object):
>> def __init__(self, street, no):
>> self.no = no
>> self.street = street
>>
>> person = Person(
>> name="john",
>> age=30,
>> address = Address(
>> street="Green Street",
>> no=12
>> )
>> )
> 
> What are you doing if 1) classes Person and Address imported from
> foreign module 2) __init__ method is not defined as you want?

My work-around would be:

p = person = Person()
p.name = "john"
p.age = age	# assuming, for a moment, that the age I wanted to set 
                # happened to be in another variable
a = p.address = Address()
a.street = "Green Street"
a.no = 12

del a, p	# optional, for a tidier namespace

Slightly verbose, but, saying what it means, it avoids having to guess which 
age of several ages might have to be used in various places; the same would 
go for other input variables.  Actually, I probably wouldn't use p as a 
stand-in for person unless person were a global name and p could be local.

	Mel.



From charles at declareSub.com  Fri Aug 28 16:40:54 2009
From: charles at declareSub.com (Charles Yeomans)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 16:40:54 -0400
Subject: why python got less developers ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<71fc40ff-cf0e-4b15-b60c-dd42deaac49d@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 


On Aug 28, 2009, at 1:03 AM, Esam Qanadeely wrote:

> who cares if a language is compiled or interpreted as long as it runs
> and perform the function.
>
> second thing is : even if java is faster than python , unless you are
> making performance critical operations : who cares? computers are
> getting faster all the time and languages like python or ruby are fast
> enough.
>
> any comment ?

Many developers suffer from performance anxiety.

Charles Yeomans


From ken at seehart.com  Fri Aug 28 16:59:57 2009
From: ken at seehart.com (Ken Seehart)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:59:57 -0700
Subject: cgi and POST
Message-ID: <4A98454D.6050006@seehart.com>

I can't seem to find an answer to this simple question on the web, and 
the documentation doesn't seem to indicate how to do this...

On the client I have:
        urllib.urlopen(uri, data)

This does a POST, but it's not obvious to me how this maps onto the 
various cgi examples which assume that the POST operation came from an 
html form with a file field.

In my case, there is no html form, and there is no file field, so please 
do not refer me to a page that just gives examples where the data is 
coming from a file transfer form.  I have already visited those pages.

My question is this:

Using cgi, how do I get the /data /(not the uri arguments) originating 
from a POST that did not originate from a form.

Thanks.



From vicente.soler at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 17:34:07 2009
From: vicente.soler at gmail.com (vsoler)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 14:34:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Colors on IDLE
References: 
	 
	
Message-ID: <59922ab5-f8c9-429f-b1ea-9b1418aa6b71@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 28, 9:55?pm, Chris Rebert  wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 12:00 PM, vsoler wrote:
> > On Aug 28, 8:58?pm, vsoler  wrote:
> >> Everything that I see in IDLE is in black.
>
> >> I have tried to add colors, without success.
>
> >> I've tried: ?/Options/Configure IDLE/Highlighting/IDLE Classic
>
> > Couldn't finish writing... ? sorry
> > -----------------------------------
>
> > Everything that I see in IDLE is in black.
>
> > I have tried to add colors, without success.
>
> > I've tried: ?/Options/Configure IDLE/Highlighting/IDLE Classic
>
> > However, everything remains black. Any help is highly appreciated
>
> What OS are you on?
>
> - Chris

Windows XP


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Fri Aug 28 17:42:04 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:42:04 -0400
Subject: Overriding iadd for dictionary like objects
In-Reply-To: 
References: 		
		<21e57363-4e92-41cb-9907-5aef96ad0a6e@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Carl Banks wrote:

> I don't think it needs a syntax for that, but I'm not so sure a method
> to modify a value in place with a single key lookup wouldn't
> occasioanally be useful.

Augmented assignment does that.

> 
> For instance:
> 
>    def increment(value):
>        return value+1
>    d = { 'a': 1 }
>    d.apply_to_value('a',increment)
>    print d
> 
> and d['a'] would be 2.  The difference is that only one lookup
> occurs.

Like this?
 >>> d={'a': 2}
 >>> d['a'] += 2
 >>> d['a']
4

This does not cover all replacements, but certainly the most common.

[snip]
> As a workaround, if lookups are expensive,

But they are not. Because (C)Python is heavily based on dict name lookup 
for builtins and global names and attributes, as well as overt dict 
lookup, must effort has gone into optimizing dict lookup.

 > you can add

something even slower ;-).  In particular, a method lookup + method 
call, as you suggest above.

One can always avoid calculating the key object twice if that is expensive.

Terry Jan Reedy



From darcy at druid.net  Fri Aug 28 17:48:57 2009
From: darcy at druid.net (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:48:57 -0400
Subject: cgi and POST
In-Reply-To: <4A98454D.6050006@seehart.com>
References: <4A98454D.6050006@seehart.com>
Message-ID: <20090828174857.843a4da2.darcy@druid.net>

On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:59:57 -0700
Ken Seehart  wrote:
> Using cgi, how do I get the /data /(not the uri arguments) originating 
> from a POST that did not originate from a form.

You don't care where it came from.  Just treat it exactly as if it came
from a form.

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain          |  Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
+1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.


From saimapk81 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 17:49:58 2009
From: saimapk81 at gmail.com (saima81)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 14:49:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: "BOLLYWOOD GIRLS" ON www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com "BOLLYWOOD 
	ROMANTIC SCENES" www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com "BOLLYWOOD WALLPAPERS" 
	www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com "BOLLYWOOD PICTURES"
	www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com "BOLLYWOOD SCENES" Options
Message-ID: <83e09538-4098-4f19-8164-f3a4c4702e32@u20g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

"BOLLYWOOD GIRLS" ON www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com "BOLLYWOOD
ROMANTIC SCENES" www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com "BOLLYWOOD WALLPAPERS"
www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com "BOLLYWOOD PICTURES" www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com
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GIRLS" ON www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com "BOLLYWOOD ROMANTIC SCENES"
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Options "BOLLYWOOD GIRLS" ON www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com "BOLLYWOOD
ROMANTIC SCENES" www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com "BOLLYWOOD WALLPAPERS"
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www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com "BOLLYWOOD SCENES" Options "BOLLYWOOD
GIRLS" ON www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com "BOLLYWOOD ROMANTIC SCENES"
www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com "BOLLYWOOD WALLPAPERS" www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com
"BOLLYWOOD PICTURES" www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com "BOLLYWOOD SCENES"
Options "BOLLYWOOD GIRLS" ON www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com "BOLLYWOOD
ROMANTIC SCENES" www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com "BOLLYWOOD WALLPAPERS"
www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com "BOLLYWOOD PICTURES" www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com
"BOLLYWOOD SCENES" Options "BOLLYWOOD GIRLS" ON www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com
"BOLLYWOOD ROMANTIC SCENES" www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com "BOLLYWOOD
WALLPAPERS" www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com "BOLLYWOOD PICTURES"
www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com "BOLLYWOOD SCENES" Options "BOLLYWOOD
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www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com "BOLLYWOOD WALLPAPERS" www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com
"BOLLYWOOD PICTURES" www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com "BOLLYWOOD SCENES"
Options "BOLLYWOOD GIRLS" ON www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com "BOLLYWOOD
ROMANTIC SCENES" www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com "BOLLYWOOD WALLPAPERS"
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"BOLLYWOOD SCENES" Options "BOLLYWOOD GIRLS" ON www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com
"BOLLYWOOD ROMANTIC SCENES" www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com "BOLLYWOOD
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www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com "BOLLYWOOD SCENES" Options "BOLLYWOOD
GIRLS" ON www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com "BOLLYWOOD ROMANTIC SCENES"
www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com "BOLLYWOOD WALLPAPERS" www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com
"BOLLYWOOD PICTURES" www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com "BOLLYWOOD SCENES"
Options "BOLLYWOOD GIRLS" ON www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com "BOLLYWOOD
ROMANTIC SCENES" www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com "BOLLYWOOD WALLPAPERS"
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"BOLLYWOOD SCENES" Options "BOLLYWOOD GIRLS" ON www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com
"BOLLYWOOD ROMANTIC SCENES" www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com "BOLLYWOOD
WALLPAPERS" www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com "BOLLYWOOD PICTURES"
www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com "BOLLYWOOD SCENES" Options "BOLLYWOOD
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"BOLLYWOOD PICTURES" www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com "BOLLYWOOD SCENES"
Options "BOLLYWOOD GIRLS" ON www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com "BOLLYWOOD
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www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com "BOLLYWOOD PICTURES" www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com
"BOLLYWOOD SCENES" Options "BOLLYWOOD GIRLS" ON www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com
"BOLLYWOOD ROMANTIC SCENES" www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com "BOLLYWOOD
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www.e-indiangirls.blogspot.com "BOLLYWOOD SCENES" Options


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 18:13:19 2009
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:13:19 -0500
Subject: Overriding iadd for dictionary like objects
In-Reply-To: 
References: 				<21e57363-4e92-41cb-9907-5aef96ad0a6e@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>	
	
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-28 16:42 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:
> Carl Banks wrote:
>
>> I don't think it needs a syntax for that, but I'm not so sure a method
>> to modify a value in place with a single key lookup wouldn't
>> occasioanally be useful.
>
> Augmented assignment does that.

No, it uses one __getitem__ and one __setitem__ thus two key lookups.

>> For instance:
>>
>> def increment(value):
>> return value+1
>> d = { 'a': 1 }
>> d.apply_to_value('a',increment)
>> print d
>>
>> and d['a'] would be 2. The difference is that only one lookup
>> occurs.
>
> Like this?
>  >>> d={'a': 2}
>  >>> d['a'] += 2
>  >>> d['a']
> 4
>
> This does not cover all replacements, but certainly the most common.

Take look farther up in the thread for the actual point at issue. The OP knows 
that augmented assignment works for the common cases. He wants to override the 
behavior on the container to handle some uncommon cases, and this is not 
possible because Python breaks up the operation into three orthogonal actions.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From hkh00001 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 18:19:35 2009
From: hkh00001 at gmail.com (qwe rty)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:19:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: IDE for python similar to visual basic
Message-ID: <2a17396c-4d6d-4cb0-a314-208054a2f774@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

i have been searching for am IDE for python that is similar to Visual
Basic but had no luck.shall you help me please?


From fasteliteprogrammer at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 28 18:22:47 2009
From: fasteliteprogrammer at yahoo.com (Craig)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:22:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: IDE for python similar to visual basic
In-Reply-To: <2a17396c-4d6d-4cb0-a314-208054a2f774@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <504063.99893.qm@web36502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Try wingware i have it and i like it.

--- On Fri, 8/28/09, qwe rty  wrote:

> From: qwe rty 
> Subject: IDE for python similar to visual basic
> To: python-list at python.org
> Date: Friday, August 28, 2009, 5:19 PM
> i have been searching for am IDE for
> python that is similar to Visual
> Basic but had no luck.shall you help me please?
> -- 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 


      


From josefg at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 18:25:13 2009
From: josefg at gmail.com (josef)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:25:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Object Reference question
References: <2dcf41c3-6623-48d9-bb74-97f753088479@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
	<9feee13c-117e-4806-b238-e4152a68adfb@18g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 27, 1:35?pm, Ethan Furman  wrote:
> josef wrote:
> > Thanks to everyone who responded.
>
> > I will be going with some sort of a = MyClass(name = 'a') format. It's
> > the Python way.
>
> > For me, it was very hard to accept that EVERYTHING is an object
> > reference. And that there are no object reference names, just string
> > entries in dictionaries. But I think it all makes sense now.
>
> > Thanks again,
>
> > Josef
>
> My apologies if I missed it, but what *exactly* are you planning on
> doing with your 'name' attribute? ?From the posts I've seen so far, I
> think you are only setting yourself up for failure.
>
> ~Ethan~

I'm going to use it for printing purposes. dk = MyClass(name='dk')
When I need a name dk.name. There will only ever be one dk defined.

Does that read like I'm setting myself up for failure?


From hkh00001 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 18:37:46 2009
From: hkh00001 at gmail.com (qwe rty)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:37:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: What python can NOT do?
Message-ID: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>

i know that an interpreted language like python can't be used to make
an operating system or system drivers.

what else can NOT be done in python? what are the limitations of the
language?


From thudfoo at opensuse.us  Fri Aug 28 18:39:28 2009
From: thudfoo at opensuse.us (member thudfoo)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:39:28 -0700
Subject: [Tutor] Sending an email alert
In-Reply-To: <000001ca2811$cb320b10$61962130$@org>
References: <000001ca2811$cb320b10$61962130$@org>
Message-ID: <3d881a310908281539k42b92449p804575eac3cd6e7@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 12:00 PM, Marc  wrote:
[...]
> ??? s = smtplib.SMTP('smtp.marcd.org')
>
> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'SMTP'
>
>
>
> The code I am trying to use is:
>
>
>
> import smtplib
>
[...]

Make sure you do not have a file called "smtplib.py" on the your python path:

put this statement after "import smtplib":

    print smtplib.__file__

in order to find out what "smtplib" is being imported.

HTH
> _______________________________________________
> Tutor maillist ?- ?Tutor at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
>


From hkh00001 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 18:43:51 2009
From: hkh00001 at gmail.com (qwe rty)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:43:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: IDE for python similar to visual basic
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 29, 1:22?am, Craig  wrote:
> Try wingware i have it and i like it.
>
> --- On Fri, 8/28/09, qwe rty  wrote:
>
> > From: qwe rty 
> > Subject: IDE for python similar to visual basic
> > To: python-l... at python.org
> > Date: Friday, August 28, 2009, 5:19 PM
> > i have been searching for am IDE for
> > python that is similar to Visual
> > Basic but had no luck.shall you help me please?
> > --
> >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>

OMG, it has no visual designer !!


From mark at markroseman.com  Fri Aug 28 18:48:35 2009
From: mark at markroseman.com (Mark Roseman)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 16:48:35 -0600
Subject: An assessment of Tkinter and IDLE
References: <55a0833d-3f1f-402a-8eb7-cb4b7861cce5@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	
	<1010dd16-fa92-46b6-8391-b8a701704472@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

r  wrote:
> On Aug 28, 11:12?am, Mark Roseman  wrote:
> > Would it be useful to link to this from the main Python Tkinter
> > documentation?
> 
> Thanks Mark, but i would hate to see more links to TCL code in the
> python docs. Whats the use of Tkinter if the docs are in TCL. 

The www.tkdocs.com site is 'language neutral' - currently the tutorial 
covers Tcl, Perl, Ruby and yes Python, and allows you to switch between 
any of those languages (or show all of them).


From abecedarian314159 at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 28 18:51:10 2009
From: abecedarian314159 at yahoo.com (William)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:51:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: IDE for python similar to visual basic
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <846470.11833.qm@web110601.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

For visual designers, you may try:
QTDesigner with PyQt
or WxForms or WxGlade or BoaConstructor with WxPython


It's not like VB.NET where you can put in callbacks write after doing layout, but some prefer the above designers to hand coding guis.? 

Good luck,
William

--- On Fri, 8/28/09, qwe rty  wrote:

From: qwe rty 
Subject: Re: IDE for python similar to visual basic
To: python-list at python.org
Date: Friday, August 28, 2009, 6:43 PM

On Aug 29, 1:22?am, Craig  wrote:
> Try wingware i have it and i like it.
>
> --- On Fri, 8/28/09, qwe rty  wrote:
>
> > From: qwe rty 
> > Subject: IDE for python similar to visual basic
> > To: python-l... at python.org
> > Date: Friday, August 28, 2009, 5:19 PM
> > i have been searching for am IDE for
> > python that is similar to Visual
> > Basic but had no luck.shall you help me please?
> > --
> >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>

OMG, it has no visual designer !!
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



      
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From stef.mientki at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 18:51:12 2009
From: stef.mientki at gmail.com (Stef Mientki)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 00:51:12 +0200
Subject: IDE for python similar to visual basic
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <4A985F60.5060301@gmail.com>

qwe rty wrote:
> On Aug 29, 1:22 am, Craig  wrote:
>   
>> Try wingware i have it and i like it.
>>
>> --- On Fri, 8/28/09, qwe rty  wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> From: qwe rty 
>>> Subject: IDE for python similar to visual basic
>>> To: python-l... at python.org
>>> Date: Friday, August 28, 2009, 5:19 PM
>>> i have been searching for am IDE for
>>> python that is similar to Visual
>>> Basic but had no luck.shall you help me please?
>>> --
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>>>       
>>     
>
> OMG, it has no visual designer !!
>   
That was my first reaction too.
and  I was even used to a better visual designer: Delphi ;-)
I'm now very happy and design faster in wxPython (with GUI-support) than 
in Delphi ;-)

cheers,
Stef


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 19:02:00 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 16:02:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Overriding iadd for dictionary like objects
References: 
	
	 
	
	<21e57363-4e92-41cb-9907-5aef96ad0a6e@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	 
	
Message-ID: <58e91734-d03f-417c-89b1-f2717c3a9181@l5g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 28, 2:42?pm, Terry Reedy  wrote:
> Carl Banks wrote:
> > I don't think it needs a syntax for that, but I'm not so sure a method
> > to modify a value in place with a single key lookup wouldn't
> > occasioanally be useful.
>
> Augmented assignment does that.

Internally uses two lookups, one for getting, and one for setting.  I
think this is an unavoidable given Python's semantics.  Look at the
traceback:


>>> def x():
...     d['a'] += 1
...
>>> dis.dis(x)
  2           0 LOAD_GLOBAL              0 (d)
              3 LOAD_CONST               1 ('a')
              6 DUP_TOPX                 2
              9 BINARY_SUBSCR
             10 LOAD_CONST               2 (1)
             13 INPLACE_ADD
             14 ROT_THREE
             15 STORE_SUBSCR
             16 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
             19 RETURN_VALUE


> > As a workaround, if lookups are expensive,
>
> But they are not. Because (C)Python is heavily based on dict name lookup
> for builtins and global names and attributes, as well as overt dict
> lookup, must effort has gone into optimizing dict lookup.

The actual lookup algorithm Python dicts use is well-optimized, yes,
but the dict could contain keys that have expensive comparison and
hash-code calculation, in which case lookup is going to be slow.


Carl Banks


From nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 19:02:33 2009
From: nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 23:02:33 GMT
Subject: Annoying octal notation
In-Reply-To: <00216447$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 	<87d46ok948.fsf@benfinney.id.au>		<02a0b085$0$30337$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>	
	<00216447$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

Steven D'Aprano:

> Obviously I can't speak for Ken Thompson's motivation in creating this 
> feature, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't to save typing or space on 
> punchcards.

   The original implementation of UNIX was on a PDP-7 which was an
18-bit machine. Octal = 3 bits at a a time which evenly divides an
18-bit word whereas the 4 bits of hexadecimal do not. Early
implementations of B were (according to Wikipedia) on the PDP-7, PDP-11
(a 16-bit machine) and Honeywell 36-bit mainframes.

   Octal was widely used on the PDP-11. DEC's PDP-11 Assembler defaulted
to octal and didn't even support hexadecimal. The prefixes used in
MACRO-11 for explicit radixes were ^D, ^O, and ^B.
http://computer-refuge.org/bitsavers/pdf/dec/pdp11/rsx11/RSX11M_V2/DEC-11-OIMRA-A-D_MACRO_75.pdf

   Neil


From ken at seehart.com  Fri Aug 28 19:11:20 2009
From: ken at seehart.com (Ken Seehart)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 16:11:20 -0700
Subject: cgi and POST
In-Reply-To: <20090828174857.843a4da2.darcy@druid.net>
References: <4A98454D.6050006@seehart.com>
	<20090828174857.843a4da2.darcy@druid.net>
Message-ID: <4A986418.6000600@seehart.com>

D'Arcy J.M. Cain wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:59:57 -0700
> Ken Seehart  wrote:
>   
>> Using cgi, how do I get the /data /(not the uri arguments) originating 
>> from a POST that did not originate from a form.
>>     
>
> You don't care where it came from.  Just treat it exactly as if it came
> from a form.
>   
Thanks.  Anyway, the issue was that I made a mistake the urllib side of 
things.
Problem solved.

Ken



From lists at cheimes.de  Fri Aug 28 19:21:32 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 01:21:32 +0200
Subject: What python can NOT do?
In-Reply-To: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

qwe rty wrote:
> i know that an interpreted language like python can't be used to make
> an operating system or system drivers.
> 
> what else can NOT be done in python? what are the limitations of the
> language?

Python is a high level language. It's not designed for low level stuff
like bit operations or direct hardware access. However it can be used as
a glue language for low level code written in C or ASM.

Christian



From rt8396 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 19:27:27 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 16:27:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Colors on IDLE
References: 
	 
	
	<59922ab5-f8c9-429f-b1ea-9b1418aa6b71@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8d5d283f-b0bd-4e16-97c7-d2de1a148cae@l35g2000vba.googlegroups.com>


Have you tried saving the files as MYScriptName.py? notice the py
extension, very important ;)


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 19:33:38 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 16:33:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: why python got less developers ?
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: <1b6492ae-ee59-4a09-a35a-b0db79b5db81@s13g2000yql.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 28, 10:36?am, jfabi... at yolo.com wrote:
(snip)
> I'm inclined to agreed. ?But in recent years we lost a number of developers
> to Ruby. ?I don't know but I doubt Ruby has a marketing budget. ?So in my
> mind it is difficult for me to blame just the lack of marketing dollars for
> the lost. ?

Yes probably have since you can write Ruby code that almost mimics
Python code, well except for that annoying "end" statement ;). But i
think Ruby attracts more perl-heads and lispers anyhow. And i really
doubt we want to caterer to that bunch *wink*.

I shudder when i imagine a world without Python's simplistic beauty,
it is a very scary thought...


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 19:56:44 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 16:56:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: What python can NOT do?
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <8b9073d6-b539-4f0c-b26b-ecf9fd014a87@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 28, 5:37?pm, qwe rty  wrote:
> what else can NOT be done in python? what are the limitations of the
> language?

Why would you even want to know what can't be done? What is it that
you would like to do with Python? If you want a one size fits all
language you may be looking for a very long time...



From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Fri Aug 28 20:05:40 2009
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 19:05:40 -0500
Subject: What python can NOT do?
In-Reply-To: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A9870D4.8070800@tim.thechases.com>

qwe rty wrote:
> i know that an interpreted language like python can't be used to make
> an operating system or system drivers.

As long as you are willing to write the OS hooks in C, you can 
write the userspace device drivers in Python:

https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/programming-9/how-to-write-device-driver-program-using-python-in-linux-687277/

Since Python is Turing-complete, there's no reason a whole OS 
couldn't be authored in Python.

> what else can NOT be done in python? what are the limitations of the
> language?

I understand there's a little trouble getting Python to prove 
that P=NP  You'll also find that it only comes close to solving 
the unrestricted three-body problem and the Traveling Salesman 
problem is still limited to fallible heuristics and searching the 
entire solution set in better than O(2**n) time.

-tkc






From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Aug 28 20:06:54 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 28 Aug 2009 17:06:54 -0700
Subject: why python got less developers ?
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
  wrote:
>Chris Rebert wrote:
>> On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Deep_Feelings
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> python got relatively fewer numbers of developers than other high
>>> level languages like .NET , java .. etc ??why ?
>> 
>> We lack Sun and Microsoft's massive marketing departments. :)
>
>I'm inclined to agreed.  But in recent years we lost a number of developers
>to Ruby.  

Cite?  I mean, I'm sure it's not zero, but "a number" implies quite a bit
more than zero, which I'm inclined to doubt without good evidence.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I support family values -- Addams family values" --www.nancybuttons.com


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 20:11:08 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:11:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: An assessment of Tkinter and IDLE
References: <55a0833d-3f1f-402a-8eb7-cb4b7861cce5@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	
	<1010dd16-fa92-46b6-8391-b8a701704472@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <827effaa-d0f7-4142-b4b9-6f9f8e0e7963@e34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 28, 5:48?pm, Mark Roseman  wrote:
(snip)
> Thewww.tkdocs.comsite is 'language neutral' - currently the tutorial
> covers Tcl, Perl, Ruby and yes Python, and allows you to switch between
> any of those languages (or show all of them).

True, however the coverage is incomplete. I would back this site if we
can get a complete coverage of all widgets in the Python language.

+0.1


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Fri Aug 28 20:14:39 2009
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 19:14:39 -0500
Subject: What python can NOT do?
In-Reply-To: <4A9870D4.8070800@tim.thechases.com>
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4A9870D4.8070800@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <4A9872EF.2000708@tim.thechases.com>

>> what else can NOT be done in python? what are the limitations of the
>> language?
> 
> I understand there's a little trouble getting Python to prove 
> that P=NP  You'll also find that it only comes close to solving 
> the unrestricted three-body problem and the Traveling Salesman 
> problem is still limited to fallible heuristics and searching the 
> entire solution set in better than O(2**n) time.

I forgot about solving the Spam problem entirely.  And answering 
poorly worded/thought-out questions on the internet...

I've also been sorely disappointed by Python's ability to make a 
good chocolate cream silk pie.

-tkc








From hkh00001 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 20:26:06 2009
From: hkh00001 at gmail.com (qwe rty)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:26:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: What python can NOT do?
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4A9870D4.8070800@tim.thechases.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 29, 3:14?am, Tim Chase  wrote:
> >> what else can NOT be done in python? what are the limitations of the
> >> language?
>
> > I understand there's a little trouble getting Python to prove
> > that P=NP ?You'll also find that it only comes close to solving
> > the unrestricted three-body problem and the Traveling Salesman
> > problem is still limited to fallible heuristics and searching the
> > entire solution set in better than O(2**n) time.
>
> I forgot about solving the Spam problem entirely. ?And answering
> poorly worded/thought-out questions on the internet...
>
> I've also been sorely disappointed by Python's ability to make a
> good chocolate cream silk pie.
>
> -tkc

if you don't know the answer please don't reply


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 20:31:22 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:31:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: What python can NOT do?
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 28, 7:05?pm, Tim Chase  wrote:
(snip)
> Since Python is Turing-complete, there's no reason a whole OS
> couldn't be authored in Python.

Yes, and one could go from NY to LA on a unicycle but would one really
want to? Talk about some redass and blueballs! *yikes*

Yes, if i have learned anything in my life, i can say there are
absolutely no boundaries to what humans can achieve short the limit of
their own imagination and the ever fading remainder of ones life.


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Fri Aug 28 20:47:51 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:47:51 -0700
Subject: copy construtor question
In-Reply-To: <613204.64791.qm@web53105.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <613204.64791.qm@web53105.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908281747q347d849cx3e8abe2ebe94a120@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 11:38 AM, xiaosong xia wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I am trying to define a class with copy constructor as following:
>
> class test:
>
> ???? def __init__(self, s=None):
>
> ????????? self=s

Python uses call-by-object
(http://effbot.org/zone/call-by-object.htm), so reassigning `self`
does not affect the object outside of the body of the method. It is
(practically) impossible to reassign `self` in the way and with the
effect you're trying to do; that is, you never change what `self`
points to from the outside world's perspective, you can only modify
the object it already points at.


> 1. Can 'self ' be a class attribute?

Doing this would make no sense.

> 2. How to make a copy constructor?

Since Python lacks overloading based on parameter types, generally one
does it the other way around and instead provides a method that
produces a copy of the object. For example:

class Point(object):
    def __init__(self, x, y):
        self. x = x
        self.y = y

    def copy(self):
        return Point(self.x, self.y)

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Fri Aug 28 21:17:35 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 29 Aug 2009 01:17:35 GMT
Subject: What python can NOT do?
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <0022052b$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:37:46 -0700, qwe rty wrote:

> i know that an interpreted language like python 

Languages are neither interpreted nor compiled. *Implementations* are 
interpreted or compiled.

Perl has only one implementation, which is interpreted (as far as I 
know); Java has a number of implementations, some of which compile to 
byte-code, some compile to machine-code. There are C interpreters as well 
as C compilers. And languages like Forth have an unusual programming 
model which doesn't easily match the conventional interpreted/compiled 
distinction.

Python has a number of implementations, all of which are compiled to byte-
code, like early Java. None are purely interpreted; none are compiled to 
machine-code, although there are add-ons to CPython which will compile 
most Python code to machine-code. Some day, Python may include 
implementations which compile directly to machine-code.


> can't be used to make an operating system or system drivers.

With existing Python implementations, it would be difficult to write an 
OS, because the implementations assume there is already an operating 
system available to handle things like memory and disk IO. So before you 
could write an OS in Python, you would need to write a new Python 
implementation. However, you could easily write a "virtual OS" in Python 
which sat on top of the regular OS.

Device drivers would be less difficult, but performance may be slow 
compared to drivers written in (say) C.

Boot loaders are another type of software which would be impractical to 
write in existing Python implementations.


> what else can NOT be done in python? what are the limitations of the
> language?

As a language, Python has no theoretical limits -- it is Turing Complete, 
which means anything you can do in C, Java, Lisp, or any other Turing 
Complete language, you could do in Python -- with sufficient effort, and 
provided you don't care about efficiency.

In practice, though, we *do* care about efficiency, and about the effort 
required to write the program in the first case. In practical terms, 
Python the language makes most things easy to write but slower to run, so 
there are very few applications which couldn't be written in Python.

A few things are more difficult than others. One of the hardest things to 
do is to "sandbox" some arbitrary Python code from an untrusted source 
and execute it in a restricted environment. 

In practical terms, Python will let you write nearly any sort of program 
you want, provided absolute performance isn't your provided. (To put it 
another way, Python code is rarely "the fastest", but it is usually "fast 
enough".) If performance is too slow, Python is an excellent "glue" 
language, letting you write the bulk of your program in Python for ease, 
the performance-critical parts in C for speed.

Some practical restrictions... if you are writing a web app, some hosting 
providers don't provide access to Python on their webserver, so you're 
limited to using whatever languages they provide, or finding another 
provider.

All existing Python implementations require a minimum amount of memory to 
operate. This is relatively high, so you probably couldn't use Python on 
a device where you only had (say) 64K of memory. There's no Python 
implementation for your ancient Mac Plus or Commodore 64, and there 
probably never will be. Python the language is based on an execution 
model with relatively high overhead, so even if you wrote an 
implementation for such ancient machines, you probably couldn't do much 
with it.

Existing Python implementations don't give you direct access to hardware, 
and bit-manipulation has a lot of overhead in Python. Numerical 
calculations (e.g. scientific array calculations) also suffer from 
overhead, which is barely noticeable if you're doing a few thousand 
calculations, but if you're doing a few tens of millions may be a little 
slow. For these, you should use Python as an interface to numeric 
libraries written in C, like Scipy and Numpy.



-- 
Steven


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Aug 28 21:25:57 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 28 Aug 2009 18:25:57 -0700
Subject: variables of the class are not available as default values?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
Chris Rebert   wrote:
>
>class foo:
>    def __init__(self, maxvalue):
>        self.maxvalue =3D maxvalue
>        self.value =3D 0
>
>    def put(self, value=3DNone):
>        self.value =3D self.value if value is None else value

Stylistic nit:

I'd make that

        self.value = value if value is not None else self.value

The reason is that the "primary" value should go first.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I support family values -- Addams family values" --www.nancybuttons.com


From bcb at undisclosedlocation.net  Fri Aug 28 21:29:31 2009
From: bcb at undisclosedlocation.net (Bruce C. Baker)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 20:29:31 -0500
Subject: What python can NOT do?
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1v%lm.174048$zq1.37846@newsfe22.iad>


"qwe rty"  wrote in message 
news:00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f at q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
>i know that an interpreted language like python can't be used to make
> an operating system or system drivers.
>
> what else can NOT be done in python? what are the limitations of the
> language?

It's a floor wax and a dessert topping too! :-)




From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Fri Aug 28 21:32:17 2009
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 20:32:17 -0500
Subject: What python can NOT do?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	<4A9870D4.8070800@tim.thechases.com>	
	
Message-ID: <4A988521.7070005@tim.thechases.com>

qwe rty wrote:
> On Aug 29, 3:14 am, Tim Chase  wrote:
>>>> what else can NOT be done in python? what are the limitations of the
>>>> language?
>>> I understand there's a little trouble getting Python to prove
>>> that P=NP  You'll also find that it only comes close to solving
>>> the unrestricted three-body problem and the Traveling Salesman
>>> problem is still limited to fallible heuristics and searching the
>>> entire solution set in better than O(2**n) time.
>> I forgot about solving the Spam problem entirely.  And answering
>> poorly worded/thought-out questions on the internet...
>>
>> I've also been sorely disappointed by Python's ability to make a
>> good chocolate cream silk pie.
> 
> if you don't know the answer please don't reply

I'm not sure you understand -- Being a Turing complete language, 
anything you can do in any other language, you can do in Python. 
  As "r" observed, it might not be a pleasant experience (though 
there are a lot of things I'd rather do in Python than in C or 
Assembly) but certainly doable.

So clearly the issue resides in your nonsensical question.  You 
asked for things you can't do with Python so I listed some.  The 
things you can't do in Python are things you can't do in any 
other language either.  To turn your snark on end, "If you can't 
post a sensible question, please don't post in the first place".

But this is usenet, and Python can't solve the problem of 
nonsensical questions posted on usenet. :-/

-tkc





From b1540457 at tyldd.com  Fri Aug 28 21:43:23 2009
From: b1540457 at tyldd.com (Anny Mous)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 11:43:23 +1000
Subject: Transforming a str to an operator
References: 
	<87skfcblo3.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<91126ac3-e7fe-4b7a-a37d-d1e60beaa278@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

r wrote:

> Abviously the OP is a python baby noob and casting your irrational
> fear (and many others irrational fears) of eval 

It isn't irrational to have a healthy caution towards eval.

Apart from the security issues, running code in eval takes a massive
performance hit. Its about ten times slower to run eval("x+1") than to run
x+1 directly.



> at him is akin to 
> tales of Chupacabras running a muck in the jungle sucking the blood
> from live goats in the twilight hours. I use eval all the time and
> quite love it.

LOL I'm not surprised.


> This is nothing more than a throw away academic exercise that will
> serve no useful purpose for him in the future, 

What makes you think that learning to program well in Python is a throw-away
exercise of no useful purpose? I'm sure the code itself will be thrown away
and forgotten, but it has a very important purpose: for the OP to learn
good programming skills. Looks like you want him to learn bad skills, then
spend the rest of his life trying to unlearn them.


> but serves the very 
> useful purpose now of establishing an IO between the student and
> Python interpretor. I'll bet most your example (albeit a good example)
> flew miles above his head into la-la land.

How insulting. Is there anything that gave you the impression the OP was
stupid?


> The OP has plenty of time to learn about malicious input and
> protecting against it, right now the fundamentals are well...
> fundamental :)

When would you recommend he learns? When his web app is hijacked by
gangsters in Russia and the personal details and financial records of fifty
thousand people stolen? Protecting against malicious input *IS*
fundamental.





From nobody at nowhere.com  Fri Aug 28 21:50:20 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 02:50:20 +0100
Subject: [OT] How do I reply to a thread by sending a message
	to	python-list@python.org
References: <20090827073102.293C91DF2@ctb-mesg8.saix.net>
	<4A964C3B.8090206@ieee.org>
	
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 05:47:50 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote:

>> I use Thunderbird, and treat the list as ordinary mail.  I use 
>> reply-all, and it seems to do the right thing.  Or at least if I'm 
>> breaking threads, nobody has pointed it out to me yet.
> 
> reply-all may send duplicate messages to the author. Not sure of this list.

If the author doesn't want duplicate replies, they would normally set
a Reply-To header which points to the list.

Some listservs provide an option to suppress duplicates, i.e. a message
isn't sent if the recipient is listed in the To/CC headers. Enabling this
option is a bad idea if you're stuck behind an aggressive spam filter:
the listserv only knows whether you're listed as a recipient; it can't
know whether you actually got the message.



From nobody at nowhere.com  Fri Aug 28 22:06:03 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 03:06:03 +0100
Subject: Query screen resolution?
References: <7d57e7c2-39bf-4515-8642-6bcbeba0492c@u16g2000pru.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 11:13:06 -0700, AK Eric wrote:

> Thought this would be easy, maybe I'm missing something :)  Trying to
> query the x,y resolution of my screen.  I've seen this available
> through http://python.net/crew/mhammond/win32/ :
> 
> from win32api import GetSystemMetrics
> print "width =", GetSystemMetrics (0)
> print "height =",GetSystemMetrics (1)
> 
> But I was hoping for something built-in, and something non-OS
> specific.  Is that available?  Would be nice to detect for multiple
> monitors as well, but I'm probably asking too much :)

Your question is based upon the notion that "the screen" is a meaningful
concept. Once you move away from Windows (and systems which intentionally
try to be like Windows), that's no longer true.

E.g. if the program is being run on a terminal, the screen size is
measured in characters, not pixels (80x25 would be a reasonable size). If
the program is being run as a cron job or CGI script, there is no screen.

OTOH, if the system has the X libraries installed, there are a practically
unlimited number of X displays which you could connect to, provided that
you have the appropriate authentication credentials.



From nobody at nowhere.com  Fri Aug 28 22:10:18 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 03:10:18 +0100
Subject: What python can NOT do?
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:31:22 -0700, r wrote:

>> Since Python is Turing-complete, there's no reason a whole OS
>> couldn't be authored in Python.
> 
> Yes, and one could go from NY to LA on a unicycle but would one really
> want to? Talk about some redass and blueballs! *yikes*
> 
> Yes, if i have learned anything in my life, i can say there are
> absolutely no boundaries to what humans can achieve short the limit of
> their own imagination and the ever fading remainder of ones life.

Well, other than writing a program to determine whether a program in a
Turing-complete language will terminate on some input, or devising a
formal system which is sound, complete, and able to express its own
metatheory, or ...

Some things are actually impossible.



From hkh00001 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 22:10:30 2009
From: hkh00001 at gmail.com (qwe rty)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 19:10:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: What python can NOT do?
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4A9870D4.8070800@tim.thechases.com>
	 
	 
	
Message-ID: 


> > if you don't know the answer please don't reply
>
> I'm not sure you understand -- Being a Turing complete language,
> anything you can do in any other language, you can do in Python.
> ? As "r" observed, it might not be a pleasant experience (though
> there are a lot of things I'd rather do in Python than in C or
> Assembly) but certainly doable.
>
> So clearly the issue resides in your nonsensical question. ?You
> asked for things you can't do with Python so I listed some. ?The
> things you can't do in Python are things you can't do in any
> other language either. ?To turn your snark on end, "If you can't
> post a sensible question, please don't post in the first place".
>
> But this is usenet, and Python can't solve the problem of
> nonsensical questions posted on usenet. :-/
>
> -tkc

i am free to post , you are free to ignore



From hkh00001 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 22:11:24 2009
From: hkh00001 at gmail.com (qwe rty)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 19:11:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: What python can NOT do?
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<0022052b$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <380e1617-cd42-4b9d-820a-90d226751915@b18g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 29, 4:17?am, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:37:46 -0700, qwe rty wrote:
> > i know that an interpreted language like python
>
> Languages are neither interpreted nor compiled. *Implementations* are
> interpreted or compiled.
>
> Perl has only one implementation, which is interpreted (as far as I
> know); Java has a number of implementations, some of which compile to
> byte-code, some compile to machine-code. There are C interpreters as well
> as C compilers. And languages like Forth have an unusual programming
> model which doesn't easily match the conventional interpreted/compiled
> distinction.
>
> Python has a number of implementations, all of which are compiled to byte-
> code, like early Java. None are purely interpreted; none are compiled to
> machine-code, although there are add-ons to CPython which will compile
> most Python code to machine-code. Some day, Python may include
> implementations which compile directly to machine-code.
>
> > can't be used to make an operating system or system drivers.
>
> With existing Python implementations, it would be difficult to write an
> OS, because the implementations assume there is already an operating
> system available to handle things like memory and disk IO. So before you
> could write an OS in Python, you would need to write a new Python
> implementation. However, you could easily write a "virtual OS" in Python
> which sat on top of the regular OS.
>
> Device drivers would be less difficult, but performance may be slow
> compared to drivers written in (say) C.
>
> Boot loaders are another type of software which would be impractical to
> write in existing Python implementations.
>
> > what else can NOT be done in python? what are the limitations of the
> > language?
>
> As a language, Python has no theoretical limits -- it is Turing Complete,
> which means anything you can do in C, Java, Lisp, or any other Turing
> Complete language, you could do in Python -- with sufficient effort, and
> provided you don't care about efficiency.
>
> In practice, though, we *do* care about efficiency, and about the effort
> required to write the program in the first case. In practical terms,
> Python the language makes most things easy to write but slower to run, so
> there are very few applications which couldn't be written in Python.
>
> A few things are more difficult than others. One of the hardest things to
> do is to "sandbox" some arbitrary Python code from an untrusted source
> and execute it in a restricted environment.
>
> In practical terms, Python will let you write nearly any sort of program
> you want, provided absolute performance isn't your provided. (To put it
> another way, Python code is rarely "the fastest", but it is usually "fast
> enough".) If performance is too slow, Python is an excellent "glue"
> language, letting you write the bulk of your program in Python for ease,
> the performance-critical parts in C for speed.
>
> Some practical restrictions... if you are writing a web app, some hosting
> providers don't provide access to Python on their webserver, so you're
> limited to using whatever languages they provide, or finding another
> provider.
>
> All existing Python implementations require a minimum amount of memory to
> operate. This is relatively high, so you probably couldn't use Python on
> a device where you only had (say) 64K of memory. There's no Python
> implementation for your ancient Mac Plus or Commodore 64, and there
> probably never will be. Python the language is based on an execution
> model with relatively high overhead, so even if you wrote an
> implementation for such ancient machines, you probably couldn't do much
> with it.
>
> Existing Python implementations don't give you direct access to hardware,
> and bit-manipulation has a lot of overhead in Python. Numerical
> calculations (e.g. scientific array calculations) also suffer from
> overhead, which is barely noticeable if you're doing a few thousand
> calculations, but if you're doing a few tens of millions may be a little
> slow. For these, you should use Python as an interface to numeric
> libraries written in C, like Scipy and Numpy.
>
> --
> Steven

thank you very much ,THIS is the sort of answer i wanted


From nobody at nowhere.com  Fri Aug 28 22:11:48 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 03:11:48 +0100
Subject: What python can NOT do?
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4A9870D4.8070800@tim.thechases.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:26:06 -0700, qwe rty wrote:

> if you don't know the answer please don't reply

If you don't understand the question, don't post it in the first place.



From hkh00001 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 22:37:23 2009
From: hkh00001 at gmail.com (qwe rty)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 19:37:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: What python can NOT do?
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4A9870D4.8070800@tim.thechases.com>
	 
	 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 29, 5:11?am, Nobody  wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:26:06 -0700, qwe rty wrote:
> > if you don't know the answer please don't reply
>
> If you don't understand the question, don't post it in the first place.

don't be so angry ,not good for your health


From warpcat at sbcglobal.net  Fri Aug 28 23:15:57 2009
From: warpcat at sbcglobal.net (Warpcat)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 20:15:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Query screen resolution?
References: <7d57e7c2-39bf-4515-8642-6bcbeba0492c@u16g2000pru.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <409bf880-4e4b-48f4-8cfc-ecacf262d782@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

> Your question is based upon the notion that "the screen" is a meaningful
> concept. Once you move away from Windows (and systems which intentionally
> try to be like Windows), that's no longer true.

Good points.  Always something I haven't thought of.  Ok so... let's
*presume* the user has a measurable screen on win\mac\linux\etc since
on any other OS they wouldn't be running the app....


From alan.isaac at gmail.com  Fri Aug 28 23:36:12 2009
From: alan.isaac at gmail.com (Alan G Isaac)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 03:36:12 GMT
Subject: Select column from a list
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 8/28/2009 3:45 AM hoffik wrote:
> I'm quite new in Python and I have one question. I have a 2D matrix of
> values stored in list (3 columns, many rows). I wonder if I can select one
> column without having to go through the list with 'for' command.

Not quite what you asked but ...

>>> rows = [(1, 5, 9), (2, 6, 10), (3, 7, 11), (4, 8, 12)]
>>> cols = map(None,*rows)
>>> cols
[(1, 2, 3, 4), (5, 6, 7, 8), (9, 10, 11, 12)]

Now you can have any "column" you want.

Alan Isaac

PS You can also use imap if you prefer not to
create the list.


From rtomek at ceti.com.pl  Fri Aug 28 23:37:34 2009
From: rtomek at ceti.com.pl (Tomasz Rola)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 05:37:34 +0200
Subject: What python can NOT do?
In-Reply-To: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 28 Aug 2009, qwe rty wrote:

> i know that an interpreted language like python can't be used to make
> an operating system or system drivers.
> 
> what else can NOT be done in python? what are the limitations of the
> language?

Oh, my. And now everybody points at you this Turing-completeness. The 
issue, in my opinion, is not that something cannot be done. The truth 
about Turing-completeness is, I would say, you can do whatever but 
sometimes you will not because it would be too ugly. My private list of 
things that when implemented in Python would be ugly to the point of 
calling it difficult:

1. AMB operator - my very favourite. In one sentence, either language 
allows one to do it easily or one would not want to do it (in an ugly 
way).

http://www.randomhacks.net/articles/2005/10/11/amb-operator

After quite some googling I was finally able to locate sample 
implementation, but I cannot say ATM how well it works and if it is 
practical enough to use it in any of my programs. If time permits, I will 
try it, hopefully.

http://www.c2.com/cgi/wiki?AmbInPython

2. Changing the language from the inside.

Everybody can change the interpreter, right? But how about doing some 
bigger, maybe even fundamental change to the language by means offered by 
the language itself?

Example:

If Python had no object system, or if I wanted to implement one in 
different way (say, I would like to experiment or I would not want to wait 
for a new release). In some languages that interest me now, it is possible 
and practical, more or less. So it can sometimes backfire - what OO system 
should I choose for my next Scheme program, etc. Because there are few of 
them :-), all (? - I believe) implemented as a code library. Just install 
it and off you go, now you have OO programming. Actually, I don't use OO 
all that much recently (maybe I feel disapointed a bit, or something).

Also, I have read (but not checked it myself) that for some time Common 
Lisp had it's now-official CLOS distributed and tested in a form of 
library. Say, have they adopted OO with single inheritance as a part of CL 
ANSI standard - I would still be able to have OO with multiple 
inheritance. I would just have to download and install CLOS. No change to 
interpreter or compiler. From their point of view, CLOS would be just 
another library.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Lisp_Object_System

Judging by this code, introducing OO to the language is relatively easy:

http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/dorai/t-y-scheme/t-y-scheme-Z-H-14.html

It is not possible to alter Python in a minor way, I think. Something 
simpler than OO, like a new keyword or structures:

http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/dorai/t-y-scheme/t-y-scheme-Z-H-10.html
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/dorai/t-y-scheme/t-y-scheme-Z-H-11.html

Some readers could oppose the above by saying that Lisp's syntax is so 
primitive that it can be used to implement just any programming paradigm, 
so having it as a loadable code is not a big achievement. Well, it seems 
to me that Python has even simpler syntax or on par with Lisp family, 
so...

Some (perhaps other) readers could also say, that there is no need to 
extend Python. It already has sets and "yield" and... But some time ago it 
did not. As far as I can tell, it can be a bit too hard to go into 
"experimenting mode" with Python. Something like adding "yield" all but 
myself. It only takes few kilos of code for a working OO in another 
language, so how hard could such "yield" be? Well, in Python I probably 
wouldn't dare.

BTW I hope nobody's feeling have been hurt. This was meant to be 
informative, not offensive.

BTW2. As I said, these are _possible_ things (Turing complete language, 
and so on). But adding them would require some hard work and would produce 
ugly and/or fragile code, so I decided it could be easier to learn another 
language...

Regards,
Tomasz Rola

--
** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature.      **
** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home    **
** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened...      **
**                                                                 **
** Tomasz Rola          mailto:tomasz_rola at bigfoot.com             **


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Fri Aug 28 23:41:12 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 28 Aug 2009 20:41:12 -0700
Subject: What python can NOT do?
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
qwe rty   wrote:
>
>> > if you don't know the answer please don't reply
>>
>> I'm not sure you understand -- Being a Turing complete language,
>> anything you can do in any other language, you can do in Python.
>> =A0 As "r" observed, it might not be a pleasant experience (though
>> there are a lot of things I'd rather do in Python than in C or
>> Assembly) but certainly doable.
>>
>> So clearly the issue resides in your nonsensical question. =A0You
>> asked for things you can't do with Python so I listed some. =A0The
>> things you can't do in Python are things you can't do in any
>> other language either. =A0To turn your snark on end, "If you can't
>> post a sensible question, please don't post in the first place".
>>
>> But this is usenet, and Python can't solve the problem of
>> nonsensical questions posted on usenet. :-/
>>
>> -tkc
>
>i am free to post , you are free to ignore

Well -- don't you think the same applies in reverse?  Remember that
Python is named after the comedy group Monty Python, and jokes are a
frequent occurrence on this group.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I support family values -- Addams family values" --www.nancybuttons.com


From sebouel at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 00:28:17 2009
From: sebouel at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=E9bastien_Ouellet?=)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 21:28:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: A lot of problem with pygame.mixer module!
References: 
Message-ID: 

I had the same problem and struggled through every solution posted on
the web. None actually helped but I discovered bbfreeze :
http://pypi.python.org/pypi/bbfreeze/
It works as well as py2exe and there are no problems with
pygame.mixer. It's easy to install and the example script at the end
of the page does the trick.

On 20 juil, 08:28, Alex  wrote:
> hi at all,
> As email object I 'm not be able to run my program when compiled with
> py2exe.
> Everythink ?works fine until I try to make an exe.
> After that, it crash and in the log:
>
> C:\dist\sponge.exe:97: RuntimeWarning: use mixer: DLL load failed: The
> specified module could not be found.
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? File "sponge.py", line 97, in 
> ? File "pygame\__init__.pyo", line 70, in __getattr__
> NotImplementedError: mixer module not available
>
> The code about pygame.mixer is only:
>
> pygame.mixer.init()
> music = pygame.mixer.Sound("popcorn.ogg")
> music.play()
>
> in the dist folder there is SDL_mixer.dll so...HOW can I solve this
> problem ??
> thanks in advance
> Alex
> Below my setup.py
>
> # py2exe setup program
> from distutils.core import setup
> import py2exe
> import pygame
> from modulefinder import Module
> #from pygame import mixer
> import ImageGrab
> import sys
> import os
> import Tkinter
> import glob, shutil
> sys.argv.append("py2exe")
>
> VERSION = '1.0'
> AUTHOR_NAME = 'Your Name'
> AUTHOR_EMAIL = 'your_em... at somewhere.com'
> AUTHOR_URL = "http://www.urlofyourgamesite.com/"
> PRODUCT_NAME = "Sponge"
> SCRIPT_MAIN = 'sponge.py'
> VERSIONSTRING = PRODUCT_NAME + " ALPHA " + VERSION
> ICONFILE = 'icon.ico'
>
> # Remove the build tree on exit automatically
> REMOVE_BUILD_ON_EXIT = True
>
> if os.path.exists('dist/'): shutil.rmtree('dist/')
>
> extra_files = [ ("",[ICONFILE,'WinLockDll.dll','popcorn.ogg']),
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?#("data",glob.glob(os.path.join('data','*.dat'))),
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?#("gfx",glob.glob(os.path.join('gfx','*.jpg'))),
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?#("gfx",glob.glob(os.path.join('gfx','*.png'))),
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?("fonts",glob.glob(os.path.join('fonts','*.ttf'))),
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?("music",glob.glob(os.path.join('music','*.ogg')))]
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?#("snd",glob.glob(os.path.join('snd','*.wav')))]
>
> # List of all modules to automatically exclude from distribution build
> # This gets rid of extra modules that aren't necessary for proper
> functioning of app
> # You should only put things in this list if you know exactly what you
> DON'T need
> # This has the benefit of drastically reducing the size of your dist
>
> MODULE_EXCLUDES =[
> 'email',
> 'AppKit',
> 'Foundation',
> 'bdb',
> 'difflib',
> 'tcl',
> #'Tkinter',
> #'Tkconstants',
> 'curses',
> 'distutils',
> 'setuptools',
> 'urllib',
> 'urllib2',
> 'urlparse',
> 'BaseHTTPServer',
> '_LWPCookieJar',
> '_MozillaCookieJar',
> 'ftplib',
> 'gopherlib',
> '_ssl',
> 'htmllib',
> 'httplib',
> 'mimetools',
> 'mimetypes',
> 'rfc822',
> 'tty',
> 'webbrowser',
> 'socket',
> 'hashlib',
> #'base64',
> 'compiler',
> 'pydoc'
> ]
>
> INCLUDE_STUFF = ['encodings',"encodings.latin_1"]
>
> setup(windows=[
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?{'script': SCRIPT_MAIN,
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?'other_resources': [(u"VERSIONTAG",1,VERSIONSTRING)],
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?'icon_resources': [(1,ICONFILE)]}],
> ? ? ? ? ?options = {"py2exe": {
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?"optimize": 2,
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?"includes": INCLUDE_STUFF,
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?"compressed": 1,
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?"ascii": 1,
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?#"bundle_files": 1,
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?"ignores":
> ['tcl','AppKit','Numeric','Foundation'],
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?"excludes": MODULE_EXCLUDES} },
> ? ? ? ? ? name = PRODUCT_NAME,
> ? ? ? ? ? version = VERSION,
> ? ? ? ? ? data_files = extra_files,
> ? ? ? ? ? #zipfile = None,
> ? ? ? ? ? author = AUTHOR_NAME,
> ? ? ? ? ? author_email = AUTHOR_EMAIL,
> ? ? ? ? ? url = AUTHOR_URL)
>
> # Create the /save folder for inclusion with the installer
> #shutil.copytree('save','dist/save')
>
> #if os.path.exists('dist/tcl'): shutil.rmtree('dist/tcl')
>
> # Remove the build tree
> if REMOVE_BUILD_ON_EXIT:
> ? ? ?shutil.rmtree('build/')
>
> if os.path.exists('dist/tcl84.dll'): os.unlink('dist/tcl84.dll')
> if os.path.exists('dist/tk84.dll'): os.unlink('dist/tk84.dll')



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Sat Aug 29 00:37:37 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 01:37:37 -0300
Subject: Object's nesting scope
References: 
	<7fkqodF2llnghU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<1ea2a98f-4035-4ec6-b5a9-06b21dd6f584@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4a97c851$0$307$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<440b8caf-27f9-49d4-8d1b-94f93c75eb23@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

En Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:25:55 -0300, zaur  escribi?:
> On 28 ???, 16:07, Bruno Desthuilliers  42.desthuilli... at websiteburo.invalid> wrote:
>> zaur a ?crit :
>>
>> > Ok. Here is a use case: object initialization.
>>
>> > For example,
>>
>> > person = Person():
>> > ? name = "john"
>> > ? age = 30
>> > ? address = Address():
>> > ? ? ?street = "Green Street"
>> > ? ? ?no = 12
>>
>> > vs.
>>
>> > person = Person()
>> > person.name = "john"
>> > person.age = 30
>> > address = person.address = Address()
>> > address.street = "Green Street"
>> > address.no = 12
>>
>> Err... Looks like you really should read the FineManual(tm) -
>> specifically, the parts on the __init__ method.
>>
>> class Person(object):
>> ? ? def __init__(self, name, age, address):
>> ? ? ? ? self.name = name
>> ? ? ? ? self.age = age
>> ? ? ? ? self.address = address
>>
>> class Address(object):
>> ? ? def __init__(self, street, no):
>> ? ? ? ? self.no = no
>> ? ? ? ? self.street = street
>>
>> person = Person(
>> ? ? name="john",
>> ? ? age=30,
>> ? ? address = Address(
>> ? ? ? ? street="Green Street",
>> ? ? ? ? no=12
>> ? ? )
>> )
>
> What are you doing if 1) classes Person and Address imported from
> foreign module 2) __init__ method is not defined as you want?

Welcome to dynamic languages! It doesn't matter *where* the class was  
defined. You may add new attributes to the instance (even methods to the  
class) at any time.

1)
person = Person()
vars(person).update(name="john",age=30,address=Address())
vars(person.Address).update(street="Green Street",no=12)

2)
def the_initializer_i_would_like(person, name, age):
   person.name = name
   person.age = age

person = Person()
the_initializer_i_would_like(person, name="john", age=30)

3)
def the_initializer_i_would_like(self, name, age):
   self.name = name
   self.age = age

Person.init = the_initializer_i_would_like
person = Person()
person.init(name="john", age=30)

4)
def a_generic_updater(obj, **kw):
   try: ns = vars(obj)
   except Exception: ns = None
   if ns is not None:
     ns.update(kw)
   else:
     for name in kw:
       setattr(obj, name, kw[name])

person = Person()
a_generic_updater(person, name="john", age=30)

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Sat Aug 29 00:43:09 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 01:43:09 -0300
Subject: how to edit .wsgi file extebtions with IDLE on windows
References: 
Message-ID: 

En Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:31:31 -0300, gert  escribi?:

> I can't figure out how to enable the .py shell and syntax highlighting
> for .wsgi file extensions using IDLE for windows ?

That's a Windows question, not a Python one. You have to associate the  
.wsgi extension with the Python.File file type (the one used for .py  
files):

D:\USERDATA\Gabriel>assoc .py
.py=Python.File

D:\USERDATA\Gabriel>assoc .wsgi=Python.File
.wsgi=Python.File

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Sat Aug 29 00:48:36 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 01:48:36 -0300
Subject: copy construtor question
References: <613204.64791.qm@web53105.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<50697b2c0908281747q347d849cx3e8abe2ebe94a120@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

En Fri, 28 Aug 2009 21:47:51 -0300, Chris Rebert   
escribi?:
> On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 11:38 AM, xiaosong xia  
> wrote:
>>
>> 2. How to make a copy constructor?
>
> Since Python lacks overloading based on parameter types, generally one
> does it the other way around and instead provides a method that
> produces a copy of the object. For example:
>
> class Point(object):
>     def __init__(self, x, y):
>         self. x = x
>         self.y = y
>
>     def copy(self):
>         return Point(self.x, self.y)

For simple enough cases, the copy and deepcopy functions in the copy  
module are just fine:
http://docs.python.org/library/copy.html

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Aug 29 01:21:08 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 29 Aug 2009 05:21:08 GMT
Subject: What python can NOT do?
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <00223e3f$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 05:37:34 +0200, Tomasz Rola wrote:

> My private list of
> things that when implemented in Python would be ugly to the point of
> calling it difficult:
> 
> 1. AMB operator - my very favourite. In one sentence, either language
> allows one to do it easily or one would not want to do it (in an ugly
> way).
> 
> http://www.randomhacks.net/articles/2005/10/11/amb-operator


Fascinating, but I don't exactly see how that's actually *useful*. It 
strikes me of combining all the benefits of COME FROM with the potential 
performance of Bogosort, but maybe I'm being harsh. 

On the other hand, it sounds rather like Prolog-like declarative 
programming. I fear that, like Prolog, it risks massive performance 
degradation if you don't apply the constraints in the right order.



> 2. Changing the language from the inside.
> 
> Everybody can change the interpreter, right? But how about doing some
> bigger, maybe even fundamental change to the language by means offered
> by the language itself?

Like Forth. You need it in Forth, because it has a very sparse set of 
language features, and everything is bootstrapped from a small set of 
commands, so the ability to re-define the language as you go is (1) 
necessary and (2) free.

But for Python, I don't know... it sounds cool, but in practice? It 
sounds like the sort of thing that allows programmers to spend three 
hours writing a new control structure which will save them three minutes.

And of course, for all but the tiniest, one-man-band applications, 
readability is important. Sure, you've created a gee-whizz control 
structure which combines try, while and if into one keyword, and it 
automatically does logging and threading, fantastic. But how will anyone 
else be able to maintain it when you're gone?

The ability to change the language is one step into a tarpit, where 
everything is possible but nothing is easy, and where you spend all your 
time writing language features and none of your time building the useful 
functionality you actually want. It sounds like something you want in a 
language you use for designing languages, rather than writing 
applications.



-- 
Steven


From rozzin at geekspace.com  Sat Aug 29 01:23:59 2009
From: rozzin at geekspace.com (Joshua Judson Rosen)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 01:23:59 -0400
Subject: Overriding iadd for dictionary like objects
References: 
	
	
	
	<21e57363-4e92-41cb-9907-5aef96ad0a6e@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
Message-ID: <87vdk76vm8.fsf@slice.rozzin.com>

Robert Kern  writes:
>
> On 2009-08-28 16:42 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:
> > Carl Banks wrote:
> >
> > > I don't think it needs a syntax for that, but I'm not so sure a
> > > method to modify a value in place with a single key lookup
> > > wouldn't occasioanally be useful.
> >
> > Augmented assignment does that.
> 
> No, it uses one __getitem__ and one __setitem__ thus two key lookups.

Apparently you're defining "key lookup" some other way than as
`what __getitem__ does'.

What exactly does "key lookup" mean to you?

I've always understood it as `retrieving the value associated with a
key', which obviously isn't required for assignment--otherwise it
wouldn't be possible to add new keys to a mapping.

-- 
Don't be afraid to ask (Lf.((Lx.xx) (Lr.f(rr)))).


From rozzin at geekspace.com  Sat Aug 29 01:37:21 2009
From: rozzin at geekspace.com (Joshua Judson Rosen)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 01:37:21 -0400
Subject: Overriding iadd for dictionary like objects
References: 
	
	
	
	<21e57363-4e92-41cb-9907-5aef96ad0a6e@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	<58e91734-d03f-417c-89b1-f2717c3a9181@l5g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <87ws4n5gfi.fsf@slice.rozzin.com>

Carl Banks  writes:
>
> On Aug 28, 2:42?pm, Terry Reedy  wrote:
>
> > Carl Banks wrote:
> > > I don't think it needs a syntax for that, but I'm not so sure a method
> > > to modify a value in place with a single key lookup wouldn't
> > > occasioanally be useful.
> >
> > Augmented assignment does that.
> 
> Internally uses two lookups, one for getting, and one for setting.
>
> I think this is an unavoidable given Python's semantics.  Look at
> the traceback:
> 
> 
> >>> def x():
> ...     d['a'] += 1
> ...
> >>> dis.dis(x)
>   2           0 LOAD_GLOBAL              0 (d)
>               3 LOAD_CONST               1 ('a')
>               6 DUP_TOPX                 2
>               9 BINARY_SUBSCR

OK, there's one lookup, but...

>              10 LOAD_CONST               2 (1)
>              13 INPLACE_ADD
>              14 ROT_THREE
>              15 STORE_SUBSCR
>              16 LOAD_CONST               0 (None)
>              19 RETURN_VALUE

... I don't see anything in there that retrieves the value a second time....

> > > As a workaround, if lookups are expensive,
> >
> > But they are not. Because (C)Python is heavily based on dict name lookup
> > for builtins and global names and attributes, as well as overt dict
> > lookup, must effort has gone into optimizing dict lookup.
> 
> The actual lookup algorithm Python dicts use is well-optimized, yes,
> but the dict could contain keys that have expensive comparison and
> hash-code calculation, in which case lookup is going to be slow.

I'll like the originator correct me if I've made a mistake, but I read
"lookup" as actually meaning "lookup", not "value-comparison".

At least in part because the question, as it was posed, specifically
related to a wrapper-class (providing a mapping ("dict like") interface)
around a database of some sort other than Python's dict class per se.

How do the details of Python's native dict-type's internal (hashtable)
algorithm matter when they're explicitly /not/ being used?

-- 
Don't be afraid to ask (Lf.((Lx.xx) (Lr.f(rr)))).


From icevi.icevi at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 02:09:45 2009
From: icevi.icevi at gmail.com (Vivian Wang)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 23:09:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 24, 8:08?pm, Gilles Ganault  wrote:
> Hello
>
> ? ? ? ? I was wondering if some people in this ng use Python and some GUI
> toolkit (PyWin32, wxWidgets, QT, etc.) to build professional
> applications, and if yes, what it's like, the pros and cons, etc.
>
> I'm especially concerned about the lack of controls, the lack of
> updates (lots of controls in wxWidgets are 1.0 deadware), and problems
> linked to how to update users' PC remotely when I build a new version
> using eg. Py2exe.
>
> I need controls for business apps like access to databases, good data
> grid, printing reports (with or without barcodes), etc.
>
> Thank you.

On Aug 24, 8:08 pm, Gilles Ganault  wrote:
> Hello
>
>         I was wondering if some people in this ng use Python and some

GUI
> toolkit (PyWin32, wxWidgets, QT, etc.) to build professional
> applications, and if yes, what it's like, the pros and cons, etc.
>
> I'm especially concerned about the lack of controls, the lack of
> updates (lots of controls in wxWidgets are 1.0 deadware), and problems
> linked to how to update users' PC remotely when I build a new version
> using eg. Py2exe.
>
> I need controls for business apps like access to databases, good data
> grid, printing reports (with or without barcodes), etc.
>
> Thank you.

You can try biform:
http://www.bilive.com/download/Setup_BiForm_V2.1_en.msi.zip

Demo:
http://www.bilive.com/demo/BiForm_EN_demo.htm

More demo:(Chinese version)
http://www.bilive.com/demo/

BiForm is a form designer,one designed form will deploy as a PFF file.
BiReader is a runtime PFF file process engine for end-users.
Setup file above include BiForm and BiReader.

Main features:
*Python as script language,base on QT GUI library
*Visible form designer
*Internal database access framework
*Auto connect database,auto create tables
*Supports SQLite/Mssql2000/Sybase ASE,not need write diffrent script
for diffrent database at most time
*Simple deploy,simple upgrade
*Different forms can share same tables, they will auto cooperation
with other forms at runtime.If you want to deploy a new function , not
need uninstall other forms,deploy the new PFF file is enough .




From ivanko.rus at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 02:28:26 2009
From: ivanko.rus at gmail.com (ivanko.rus at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 06:28:26 +0000
Subject: Monitoring stdout in (more or less) real time
Message-ID: <000e0cd148be848541047241e842@google.com>

Hello to everyone! I am making a program that will be a GTK+ frontend to  
ffmpeg. Naturally, one of the main functions is parsing ffmpeg's output.  
It's pretty simple when I, for example, retrieve information about a file  
(the program finishes and I read the output). But it also needs to parse  
working ffmpeg's output (in order to retrieve the percentage, remaining  
time, etc.). So, actually what I do is Popen ffmpeg, and connect to its  
stdout. And as stdout is represented by a file object, it needs to be  
read(). The problem is that read() reads until EOF is reached, which  
doesn't exist while the program is running (the same goes with  
communicate()).
So my question is: is there a way to retrieve the stdout without waiting  
the program to finish?

PS. I think it might be redirected to a "normal", existing file, but may be  
there are more optimal ways.

I will be grateful for any answer! And sorry for my English =)
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From icevi.icevi at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 02:32:16 2009
From: icevi.icevi at gmail.com (Vivian Wang)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 23:32:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: IDE for python similar to visual basic
References: <2a17396c-4d6d-4cb0-a314-208054a2f774@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2127e0be-3b93-406f-99a7-5fe02e643b40@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 29, 6:19?am, qwe rty  wrote:
> i have been searching for am IDE for python that is similar to Visual
> Basic but had no luck.shall you help me please?


You can try biform:
http://www.bilive.com/download/Setup_BiForm_V2.1_en.msi.zip

Demo:
http://www.bilive.com/demo/BiForm_EN_demo.htm

More demo:(Chinese version)
http://www.bilive.com/demo/

BiForm is a form designer,one designed form will deploy as a PFF file.
BiReader is a runtime PFF file process engine for end-users.
Setup file above include BiForm and BiReader.

Main features:
*Python as script language,base on QT GUI library
*Visible form designer
*Internal database access framework
*Auto connect database,auto create tables
*Supports SQLite/Mssql2000/Sybase ASE,not need write diffrent script
for diffrent database at most time
*Simple deploy,simple upgrade
*Different forms can share same tables,they will auto cooperation with
other forms at runtime.If you want to deploy a new function , not need
uninstall other forms,deploy the new PFF file is enough .



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Aug 29 03:10:11 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 29 Aug 2009 07:10:11 GMT
Subject: Overriding iadd for dictionary like objects
References: 
	
	
	
	<21e57363-4e92-41cb-9907-5aef96ad0a6e@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
	<87vdk76vm8.fsf@slice.rozzin.com>
Message-ID: <002257cf$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 01:23:59 -0400, Joshua Judson Rosen wrote:

> Robert Kern  writes:
>>
>> On 2009-08-28 16:42 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:
>> > Carl Banks wrote:
>> >
>> > > I don't think it needs a syntax for that, but I'm not so sure a
>> > > method to modify a value in place with a single key lookup wouldn't
>> > > occasioanally be useful.
>> >
>> > Augmented assignment does that.
>> 
>> No, it uses one __getitem__ and one __setitem__ thus two key lookups.
> 
> Apparently you're defining "key lookup" some other way than as `what
> __getitem__ does'.
> 
> What exactly does "key lookup" mean to you?
> 
> I've always understood it as `retrieving the value associated with a
> key', which obviously isn't required for assignment--otherwise it
> wouldn't be possible to add new keys to a mapping.

When you retrieve a value from a dictionary using __getitem__, e.g.:

dict["K"]

the dict has to search the hash table for the record with key "K". This a 
key lookup.

(I use the term "search", but of course for hash tables this is usually 
very fast. For Python dicts, you can assume it will usually be a constant 
time, independent of the key or the size of the dict.)

When you store a value in a dictionary using __setitem__, e.g.:

dict["K"] = 42

the dict has to search the hash table for the correct place to store a 
record with key "K". It obviously can't place the record in some 
arbitrary place, it has to be in the correct place for future lookups to 
find it. This is also a key lookup.



-- 
Steven


From erik.reppen at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 03:20:59 2009
From: erik.reppen at gmail.com (Pherdnut)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 00:20:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python Noob - gui module, book, annoying questions
Message-ID: <92cc4ca1-0e0d-4355-8d9a-b4928390e619@q35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>

I want to write cross-platform stuff. Any opinions on the best GUI
module for that?

I like a good juicy, but concise book for reading on my commute
downtown. I was thinking of checking Python in a Nutshell. Good? Bad?
Better?

Is 3.0+ more object based? I'm actually an FED and one of the things I
love about JS is the consistency of the language. I love Python 2.6 so
far so I'm not knocking it. But I'm not really taking advantage of the
non-core libraries as much right now anyway since I'm learning it.

What do you guys like in Reg Ex books/sites? I'd like to become more
fluent in some of the less commonly used stuff.


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Sat Aug 29 03:21:20 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 04:21:20 -0300
Subject: Monitoring stdout in (more or less) real time
References: <000e0cd148be848541047241e842@google.com>
Message-ID: 

En Sat, 29 Aug 2009 03:28:26 -0300,  escribi?:

> Hello to everyone! I am making a program that will be a GTK+ frontend to
> ffmpeg. Naturally, one of the main functions is parsing ffmpeg's output.
> It's pretty simple when I, for example, retrieve information about a file
> (the program finishes and I read the output). But it also needs to parse
> working ffmpeg's output (in order to retrieve the percentage, remaining
> time, etc.). So, actually what I do is Popen ffmpeg, and connect to its
> stdout. And as stdout is represented by a file object, it needs to be
> read(). The problem is that read() reads until EOF is reached, which
> doesn't exist while the program is running (the same goes with
> communicate()).
> So my question is: is there a way to retrieve the stdout without waiting
> the program to finish?

You don't have to read the complete output at once - you may process it  
line by line, I presume. I'd use a second thread to read the pipe and put  
the lines onto a Queue object; the main thread gets lines from the Queue  
when available.

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Sat Aug 29 03:34:43 2009
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 09:34:43 +0200
Subject: (Simple?) Unicode Question
References: <332972a20908270939m57be4e51tc5785b880ec642b3@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: 

* Rami Chowdhury (Thu, 27 Aug 2009 09:44:41 -0700)
> > Further, does anything, except a printing device need to know the
> > encoding of a piece of "text"?

Python needs to know if you are processing the text.
 
> I may be wrong, but I believe that's part of the idea between separation  
> of string and bytes types in Python 3.x. I believe, if you are using  
> Python 3.x, you don't need the character encoding mumbo jumbo at all ;-)

Nothing has changed in that regard. You still need to decode and encode 
text and for that you have to know the encoding.

Thorsten


From szport at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 03:34:48 2009
From: szport at gmail.com (zaur)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 00:34:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Object's nesting scope
References: 
	<7fkqodF2llnghU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<1ea2a98f-4035-4ec6-b5a9-06b21dd6f584@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4a97c851$0$307$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<440b8caf-27f9-49d4-8d1b-94f93c75eb23@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <9205fd44-90ec-4ce6-be2a-2f82dd99e13e@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>

On 29 ???, 08:37, "Gabriel Genellina"  wrote:
> En Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:25:55 -0300, zaur  escribi?:
>
>
>
> > On 28 ???, 16:07, Bruno Desthuilliers  > 42.desthuilli... at websiteburo.invalid> wrote:
> >> zaur a ?crit :
>
> >> > Ok. Here is a use case: object initialization.
>
> >> > For example,
>
> >> > person = Person():
> >> > ? name = "john"
> >> > ? age = 30
> >> > ? address = Address():
> >> > ? ? ?street = "Green Street"
> >> > ? ? ?no = 12
>
> >> > vs.
>
> >> > person = Person()
> >> > person.name = "john"
> >> > person.age = 30
> >> > address = person.address = Address()
> >> > address.street = "Green Street"
> >> > address.no = 12
>
> >> Err... Looks like you really should read the FineManual(tm) -
> >> specifically, the parts on the __init__ method.
>
> >> class Person(object):
> >> ? ? def __init__(self, name, age, address):
> >> ? ? ? ? self.name = name
> >> ? ? ? ? self.age = age
> >> ? ? ? ? self.address = address
>
> >> class Address(object):
> >> ? ? def __init__(self, street, no):
> >> ? ? ? ? self.no = no
> >> ? ? ? ? self.street = street
>
> >> person = Person(
> >> ? ? name="john",
> >> ? ? age=30,
> >> ? ? address = Address(
> >> ? ? ? ? street="Green Street",
> >> ? ? ? ? no=12
> >> ? ? )
> >> )
>
> > What are you doing if 1) classes Person and Address imported from
> > foreign module 2) __init__ method is not defined as you want?
>
> Welcome to dynamic languages! It doesn't matter *where* the class was ?
> defined. You may add new attributes to the instance (even methods to the ?
> class) at any time.
>
> 1)
> person = Person()
> vars(person).update(name="john",age=30,address=Address())
> vars(person.Address).update(street="Green Street",no=12)
>
> 2)
> def the_initializer_i_would_like(person, name, age):
> ? ?person.name = name
> ? ?person.age = age
>
> person = Person()
> the_initializer_i_would_like(person, name="john", age=30)
>
> 3)
> def the_initializer_i_would_like(self, name, age):
> ? ?self.name = name
> ? ?self.age = age
>
> Person.init = the_initializer_i_would_like
> person = Person()
> person.init(name="john", age=30)
>
> 4)
> def a_generic_updater(obj, **kw):
> ? ?try: ns = vars(obj)
> ? ?except Exception: ns = None
> ? ?if ns is not None:
> ? ? ?ns.update(kw)
> ? ?else:
> ? ? ?for name in kw:
> ? ? ? ?setattr(obj, name, kw[name])
>
> person = Person()
> a_generic_updater(person, name="john", age=30)
>
> --
> Gabriel Genellina

I know about these ways of object initializing. What I said is about
using object's dictionary as nested scope in code block. Object
initialization is just one use case.
So we say about different things.


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Sat Aug 29 03:36:38 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 09:36:38 +0200
Subject: comparison on list yields surprising result
In-Reply-To: <25195170.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <25195170.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <200908290936.38375.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Friday 28 August 2009 21:00:31 Dr. Phillip M. Feldman wrote:
> In [21]: x
> Out[21]: [1, 2, 3, 5]
>
> In [22]: x>6
> Out[22]: True
>
> Is this a bug?

No, it is a feature, so that you can use sorted on this:

[[1,2,3,4,5],6]

- Hendrik


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Sat Aug 29 03:50:43 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 09:50:43 +0200
Subject: What python can NOT do?
In-Reply-To: <4A9872EF.2000708@tim.thechases.com>
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4A9870D4.8070800@tim.thechases.com>
	<4A9872EF.2000708@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <200908290950.43216.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Saturday 29 August 2009 02:14:39 Tim Chase wrote:

> I've also been sorely disappointed by Python's ability to make a
> good chocolate cream silk pie.

This is not pythons fault - it is yours, for failing to collaborate with a 
good hardware designer for the robotics.

- Hendrik



From nomail at nomail.com  Sat Aug 29 03:54:15 2009
From: nomail at nomail.com (Sortie)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 07:54:15 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Combining C and Python programs
Message-ID: 

I want to write a program that will use ode for the physics 
simulation, whose python bindings are outdated. So I'm writing 
the physics engine in C and want to write the drawing code in 
Python. What will be the best way of making those two programs 
work together? THe physics engine won't have to run concurrently 
with the drawing code. It will only return some position data so 
they can be drawn.


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Aug 29 04:16:21 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 29 Aug 2009 08:16:21 GMT
Subject: comparison on list yields surprising result
References: <25195170.post@talk.nabble.com>
	
Message-ID: <00226752$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 09:36:38 +0200, Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:

> On Friday 28 August 2009 21:00:31 Dr. Phillip M. Feldman wrote:
>> In [21]: x
>> Out[21]: [1, 2, 3, 5]
>>
>> In [22]: x>6
>> Out[22]: True
>>
>> Is this a bug?
> 
> No, it is a feature, so that you can use sorted on this:
> 
> [[1,2,3,4,5],6]


If it's a feature, it has gone away in Python 3.


Python 3.0.1 (r301:69556, Apr  2 2009, 00:41:38)
[GCC 4.1.2 20070925 (Red Hat 4.1.2-27)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> [[1,2,3], 5].sort()
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
TypeError: unorderable types: int() < list()




-- 
Steven


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Sat Aug 29 04:24:52 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 10:24:52 +0200
Subject: Combining C and Python programs
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <200908291024.52629.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Saturday 29 August 2009 09:54:15 Sortie wrote:
> I want to write a program that will use ode for the physics
> simulation, whose python bindings are outdated. So I'm writing
> the physics engine in C and want to write the drawing code in
> Python. What will be the best way of making those two programs
> work together? THe physics engine won't have to run concurrently
> with the drawing code. It will only return some position data so
> they can be drawn.

Have you looked at ctypes?

- Hendrik


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Aug 29 04:26:54 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 29 Aug 2009 08:26:54 GMT
Subject: (Simple?) Unicode Question
References: <332972a20908270939m57be4e51tc5785b880ec642b3@mail.gmail.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <002269cb$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 09:34:43 +0200, Thorsten Kampe wrote:

> * Rami Chowdhury (Thu, 27 Aug 2009 09:44:41 -0700)
>> > Further, does anything, except a printing device need to know the
>> > encoding of a piece of "text"?
> 
> Python needs to know if you are processing the text.

Python only needs to know when you convert the text to or from bytes. I 
can do this:

>>> s = "hello"
>>> t = "world"
>>> print(' '.join([s, t]))
hello world

and not need to care anything about encodings.

So long as your terminal has a sensible encoding, and you have a good 
quality font, you should be able to print any string you can create.



>> I may be wrong, but I believe that's part of the idea between
>> separation of string and bytes types in Python 3.x. I believe, if you
>> are using Python 3.x, you don't need the character encoding mumbo jumbo
>> at all ;-)
> 
> Nothing has changed in that regard. You still need to decode and encode
> text and for that you have to know the encoding.

You only need to worry about encoding when you convert from bytes to 
text, and visa versa. Admittedly, the most common time you need to do 
that is when reading input from files, but if all your text strings are 
generated by Python, and not output anywhere, you shouldn't need to care 
about encodings.

If all your text contains nothing but ASCII characters, you should never 
need to worry about encodings at all.


-- 
Steven


From bilawal.samoon at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 04:46:15 2009
From: bilawal.samoon at gmail.com (bilawal samoon)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 01:46:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: SEI Job Opening
Message-ID: 

SEI is seeking a FT, YR Photovoltaic Technical Manager. If you are a
team player with a minimum of 4 years PV installation, curriculum and
education development, management experience, the ability to
multitask, strong verbal and written communication skills, and a sense
of humor, SEI invites you to apply to join our team in Paonia,
Colorado.
For more details www.technicaledu.blogspot.com


From thangappan143 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 05:12:36 2009
From: thangappan143 at gmail.com (Thangappan.M)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 14:42:36 +0530
Subject: Suggestion
Message-ID: <7aa29e790908290212h17d27593u52d1a90b3e785386@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all,

         I am in the process of learning Python programming language. I know
Perl,PHP. Compare to both the language Python impressed me because here
there is no lexical variables and all.Now I need suggestion saying that ,
What online book can I follow?

         I have not yet learnt any advanced programming stuffs in Python.
Please suggest some book? or tutorial. net net my goal is that I will be
able to do the project in any languages(Python,Perl,PHP).So I need to learn
more depth knowledge of Python.

So Please help me?



-- 
Regards,
Thangappan.M
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From thangappan143 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 05:14:00 2009
From: thangappan143 at gmail.com (Thangappan.M)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 14:44:00 +0530
Subject: IDE for Python
Message-ID: <7aa29e790908290214ode909c8od898918e86759daf@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all,


           Please suggest some good IDE for python.I am working in linux
platform.


-- 
Regards,
Thangappan.M
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From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 06:58:10 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 03:58:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Overriding iadd for dictionary like objects
References: 
	
	 
	
	<21e57363-4e92-41cb-9907-5aef96ad0a6e@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	 
	
	<58e91734-d03f-417c-89b1-f2717c3a9181@l5g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>
	<87ws4n5gfi.fsf@slice.rozzin.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 28, 10:37?pm, Joshua Judson Rosen  wrote:
> Carl Banks  writes:
>
> > On Aug 28, 2:42?pm, Terry Reedy  wrote:
>
> > > Carl Banks wrote:
> > > > I don't think it needs a syntax for that, but I'm not so sure a method
> > > > to modify a value in place with a single key lookup wouldn't
> > > > occasioanally be useful.
>
> > > Augmented assignment does that.
>
> > Internally uses two lookups, one for getting, and one for setting.
>
> > I think this is an unavoidable given Python's semantics. ?Look at
> > the traceback:
>
> > >>> def x():
> > ... ? ? d['a'] += 1
> > ...
> > >>> dis.dis(x)
> > ? 2 ? ? ? ? ? 0 LOAD_GLOBAL ? ? ? ? ? ? ?0 (d)
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 3 LOAD_CONST ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 1 ('a')
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 6 DUP_TOPX ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 2
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 9 BINARY_SUBSCR
>
> OK, there's one lookup, but...
>
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?10 LOAD_CONST ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 2 (1)
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?13 INPLACE_ADD
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?14 ROT_THREE
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?15 STORE_SUBSCR
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?16 LOAD_CONST ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 0 (None)
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?19 RETURN_VALUE
>
> ... I don't see anything in there that retrieves the value a second time....

STORE_SUBSCR has to look up the position in the hash table to store
the value, hence the second lookup.


> > > > As a workaround, if lookups are expensive,
>
> > > But they are not. Because (C)Python is heavily based on dict name lookup
> > > for builtins and global names and attributes, as well as overt dict
> > > lookup, must effort has gone into optimizing dict lookup.
>
> > The actual lookup algorithm Python dicts use is well-optimized, yes,
> > but the dict could contain keys that have expensive comparison and
> > hash-code calculation, in which case lookup is going to be slow.
>
> I'll like the originator correct me if I've made a mistake, but I read
> "lookup" as actually meaning "lookup", not "value-comparison".

This has nothing to do with value comparison.  I was talking about key
comparison, which happens when looking up a position in a hash table.
I was the first person to use the word "lookup" in this thread and I
specifically meant hash-table position lookup.


> At least in part because the question, as it was posed, specifically
> related to a wrapper-class (providing a mapping ("dict like") interface)
> around a database of some sort other than Python's dict class per se.
>
> How do the details of Python's native dict-type's internal (hashtable)
> algorithm matter when they're explicitly /not/ being used?

Well it doesn't apply specifically to the OP's problem.  I changed the
topic a bit by making it specific to dicts.  Is that ok with you?  Was
that not allowed?

The OP can add a method like apply_to_value to his own class, but one
can't do that for dicts.  Ergo why something like apply_to_value()
would be useful enough in rare circumstances where lookup is very slow
to merit a moments consideration before being rejected.

(If dict did have a method like that, the OP would at least know which
method to override.)


Carl Banks


From vicente.soler at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 07:01:46 2009
From: vicente.soler at gmail.com (vsoler)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 04:01:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Colors on IDLE
References: 
	 
	
	<59922ab5-f8c9-429f-b1ea-9b1418aa6b71@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	<8d5d283f-b0bd-4e16-97c7-d2de1a148cae@l35g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <311ec593-4050-4a6a-adbd-2325698a4b61@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 29, 1:27?am, r  wrote:
> Have you tried saving the files as MYScriptName.py? notice the py
> extension, very important ;)

That was it!!!

I see the colors again. Thank you.


From paul at subsignal.org  Sat Aug 29 07:16:00 2009
From: paul at subsignal.org (paul)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 13:16:00 +0200
Subject: why python got less developers ?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Deep_Feelings schrieb:
> python got relatively fewer numbers of developers than other high
> level languages like .NET , java .. etc  why ?
Besides the marketing argument, python never had a "hype".

Both PHP and ruby(Rails to be precise) got widespread because they could 
  at one point do "one" thing better than the competition. From there 
on, they had more ressources (developer time) and grew fast and beyond 
the original problem domain. Now you can write GUI apps in PHP, great!

cheers
  Paul



From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Sat Aug 29 07:34:18 2009
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 13:34:18 +0200
Subject: Colors on IDLE
References: 
	
	
	<59922ab5-f8c9-429f-b1ea-9b1418aa6b71@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	<8d5d283f-b0bd-4e16-97c7-d2de1a148cae@l35g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
	<311ec593-4050-4a6a-adbd-2325698a4b61@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

* vsoler (Sat, 29 Aug 2009 04:01:46 -0700 (PDT))
> On Aug 29, 1:27?am, r  wrote:
> > Have you tried saving the files as MYScriptName.py? notice the py
> > extension, very important ;)
> 
> That was it!!!
> 
> I see the colors again. Thank you.

I suggest you start using familiar technical terms. Like "syntax 
highlighting" instead of "see colours". That would increase the number 
of useful answers you get - at least it will stop people from thinking 
you talk about controlled substances.

Thorsten


From mwawrzyczek at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 08:14:34 2009
From: mwawrzyczek at gmail.com (Marek Wawrzyczek)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 05:14:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: gettext translate problem
Message-ID: 

Hi,

I've got the following code in main.py file:

import gettext
import os

t = gettext.translation(__file__.split('.')[0], os.getcwd())
_ = t.lgettext

if __name__=='__main__':
	print _("Hello")

then I call: xgettext main.py

and after that I call: msgfmt messages.po
wchich produces the following message:
messages.po: warning: Charset "CHARSET" is not a portable encoding
name.
                      Message conversion to user's charset might not
work.

then after calling: python main.py
the following output is print:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "main.py", line 4, in 
    t = gettext.translation(__file__.split('.')[0], os.getcwd())
  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/gettext.py", line 484, in translation
    raise IOError(ENOENT, 'No translation file found for domain',
domain)
IOError: [Errno 2] No translation file found for domain: 'main'

How to use gettext translation method properly?

Regards,
Marek


From invalid at invalid  Sat Aug 29 08:21:11 2009
From: invalid at invalid (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 07:21:11 -0500
Subject: Annoying octal notation
References: 
	<87d46ok948.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	
	<02a0b085$0$30337$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<00216447$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-28, Neil Hodgson  wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano:
>
>> Obviously I can't speak for Ken Thompson's motivation in creating this 
>> feature, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't to save typing or space on 
>> punchcards.
>
>    The original implementation of UNIX was on a PDP-7 which was an
> 18-bit machine. Octal = 3 bits at a a time which evenly divides an
> 18-bit word whereas the 4 bits of hexadecimal do not. Early
> implementations of B were (according to Wikipedia) on the PDP-7, PDP-11
> (a 16-bit machine) and Honeywell 36-bit mainframes.
>
> Octal was widely used on the PDP-11.

The PDP-11's 16-bit instruction word consisted mainly of 3-bit
fields for destiation-mode, destination-register, source-mode,
source-register.  So, it was quite easy for the progammer to
read/write machine code in octal.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! I've read SEVEN
                                  at               MILLION books!!
                               visi.com            


From gert.cuykens at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 08:40:29 2009
From: gert.cuykens at gmail.com (gert)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 05:40:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: how to edit .wsgi file extebtions with IDLE on windows
References: 
	
Message-ID: <58a021ce-3058-483d-b429-6ba4855807ac@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 29, 6:43?am, "Gabriel Genellina" 
wrote:
> En Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:31:31 -0300, gert  escribi?:
>
> > I can't figure out how to enable the .py shell and syntax highlighting
> > for .wsgi file extensions using IDLE for windows ?
>
> That's a Windows question, not a Python one. You have to associate the ?
> .wsgi extension with the Python.File file type (the one used for .py ?
> files):
>
> D:\USERDATA\Gabriel>assoc .py
> .py=Python.File
>
> D:\USERDATA\Gabriel>assoc .wsgi=Python.File
> .wsgi=Python.File
>

Thanks that does make it open exactly like a .py file, expect that
there is no syntax highlighting. Don't know if this is also a windows
issue or a IDLE issue ?



From szport at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 08:45:54 2009
From: szport at gmail.com (zaur)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 05:45:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
Message-ID: 

Python 2.6.2 (r262:71600, Apr 16 2009, 09:17:39)
[GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 5250)] on darwin
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license()" for more information.
>>> a=1
>>> x=[a]
>>> id(a)==id(x[0])
True
>>> a+=1
>>> a
2
>>> x[0]
1

I thought that += should only change the value of the int object. But
+= create new.
Is this intentional?



From ptmcg at austin.rr.com  Sat Aug 29 09:08:49 2009
From: ptmcg at austin.rr.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 06:08:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 29, 7:45?am, zaur  wrote:
> Python 2.6.2 (r262:71600, Apr 16 2009, 09:17:39)
> [GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 5250)] on darwin
> Type "copyright", "credits" or "license()" for more information.>>> a=1
> >>> x=[a]
> >>> id(a)==id(x[0])
> True
> >>> a+=1
> >>> a
> 2
> >>> x[0]
>
> 1
>
> I thought that += should only change the value of the int object. But
> += create new.
> Is this intentional?

ints are immutable.  But your logic works fine with a mutable object,
like a list:

>>> a = [1]
>>> x = [a]
>>> print id(a) == id(x[0])
True
>>> a += [1]
>>> print a
[1, 1]
>>> print x[0]
[1, 1]

What exactly are you trying to do?

-- Paul


From gd_usenet at spamfence.net  Sat Aug 29 09:23:20 2009
From: gd_usenet at spamfence.net (=?UTF-8?Q?G=C3=BCnther?= Dietrich)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 15:23:20 +0200
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
References: 
Message-ID: <8nmnm6-g6g.ln1@spamfence.net>

zaur  wrote:

>Python 2.6.2 (r262:71600, Apr 16 2009, 09:17:39)
>[GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 5250)] on darwin
>Type "copyright", "credits" or "license()" for more information.
>>>> a=1
>>>> x=[a]
>>>> id(a)==id(x[0])
>True
>>>> a+=1
>>>> a
>2
>>>> x[0]
>1
>
>I thought that += should only change the value of the int object. But
>+= create new.
>Is this intentional?

An integer variable contains the reference (ID) to an (immutable) 
integer object; it doesn't contain the value itself. So, when you assign 
a new value to an integer variable, it will contain the reference to the 
object containing the new value, afterwards.

If you assign an integer variable to a list element, this reference will 
be written into the list. The assignment of a new value to the integer 
variable will create a new integer object, containing the new value, and 
put the reference to it into the integer variable.
The reference to the object with the old value, that is stored in the 
list, won't be touched.


In fact, it is a result of integers in python being immutable.



Best regards,

G?nther


From nitebirdz at sacredchaos.com  Sat Aug 29 09:33:38 2009
From: nitebirdz at sacredchaos.com (Nitebirdz)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 15:33:38 +0200
Subject: Blank Line at Program Exit
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<20090822152515.GC10584@sevilla.sacredchaos.com>
	
Message-ID: <20090829133337.GA6751@sevilla.sacredchaos.com>

On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 09:07:53PM +0800, Steven Woody wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> I am using cywin on XP.
> 

Sorry for the late reply.  I've been too busy with some personal
matters.  It'd seem to me that you're better off taking this issue to
the Cygwin mailing lists, since it doesn't seem to be related to Python
itself.



From jkpeck at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 10:12:33 2009
From: jkpeck at gmail.com (JKPeck)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 07:12:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: csv module and None values
References: 
	
	<23c02daf-dc5a-4676-8d73-9dc63791825f@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<4006702e-14c5-4917-b76f-906233cad71e@k30g2000yqf.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 25, 8:49?am, Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
> JKPeck wrote:
> > On Aug 24, 10:43 pm, John Yeung  wrote:
> >> On Aug 24, 5:00 pm, Peter Otten <__pete... at web.de> wrote:
>
> >> > If I understand you correctly the csv.writer already does
> >> > what you want:
>
> >> > >>> w.writerow([1,None,2])
> >> > 1,,2
>
> >> > just sequential commas, but that is the special treatment.
> >> > Without it the None value would be converted to a string
> >> > and the line would look like this one:
>
> >> > 1,None,2
>
> >> No, I think he means he is getting
>
> >> >>> w.writerow([1,None,2])
>
> >> 1,"",2
>
> >> He evidently wants to quote "all" strings, but doesn't want None to be
> >> considered a string.
>
> >> John
>
> > Exactly so. ?The requirement of the receiving program, which is out of
> > my control, is that all strings be quoted but a None in a numeric
> > field result in the ,, output rather than "". ?Excel quotes strings
> > conditionally, which doesn't do what is needed in this case. ?For
> > QUOTE_NONNUMERIC to quote None values makes some sense, but it gets in
> > the way of representing missing values in a numeric field. ?It would
> > be nice to have a choice here in the dialects.
>
> > I thought of replacing the None values with float(nan), since that has
> > a numeric type, but unfortunately that results in writing the string
> > (unquoted) nan for the value. ?So the sentinel approach seems to be
> > the best I can do.
>
> How about:
>
> >>> import csv, sys
> >>> class N(int):
>
> ... ? ? def __str__(self): return ""
> ...>>> pseudo_none = N()
> >>> w = csv.writer(sys.stdout, quoting=csv.QUOTE_NONNUMERIC)
> >>> w.writerow([1, "foo", pseudo_none, "bar"])
>
> 1,"foo",,"bar"
>
> Peter

Clever.  Thanks,
Jon


From forzamila2004 at hotmail.com  Sat Aug 29 10:12:54 2009
From: forzamila2004 at hotmail.com (Momen)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 16:12:54 +0200
Subject: the best book for learning python !?
Message-ID: 

 

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From rurpy at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 29 10:38:51 2009
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 07:38:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: break unichr instead of fix ord?
References: <2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4A95A4D1.9060008@v.loewis.de>
	
	<4A961EE1.9010103@v.loewis.de>
	<65e6c430-9dc4-4a90-8448-f8f587d19750@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4a979172$0$11759$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: 

On 08/28/2009 02:12 AM, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote:

[I reordered the quotes from your previous post to try
and get the responses in a more coherent order.  No
intent to take anything out of context...]

 >>  Nothing else in the PEP seems remotely relevant.
[to providing justification for the behavior of
unichr/ord]
 >
 > Except for the motivation, of course :-)
 >
 > In addition: your original question was "why has this
 > been changed", to which the answer is "it hasn't".

My original interest was two-fold: can unichr/ord be
changed to work in a more general and helpful way?  That
seemed remotely possible until it was pointed out that
the two behave consistently, and that behavior is accurately
documented.  Second, why would they work the way they do
when they could have been generalized to cover the full
unicode space?  An inadequate answer to this would have
provided support for the first point but remains interesting
to me for the reason below.

 > Then, the next question is "why is it implemented that
 > way", to which the answer is "because the PEP says so".

Not at all a satisfying answer unless one believes
in PEPal infallibility. :-)

 > Only *then* the question is "what is the rationale for
 > the PEP specifying things the way it does". The PEP is
 > relevant so that we can both agree that Python behaves
 > correctly (in the sense of behaving as specified).

But my question had become: why that behavior, when a
slightly different behavior would be more general with
little apparent downside?

To clarify, my interest in the justification for the
current behavior is this:

I think the best feature of python is not, as commonly
stated, the clean syntax, but rather the pretty complete
and orthogonal libraries.  I often find, after I have
written some code, that due to the right library functions
being available, it turns out much shorter and concise
than I expected.

Nevertheless, every now and then, perhaps more than in some
other languages (I'm not sure), I run into something that
requires what seems to be excessive coding -- I have to
do something it seems to me that a library function should
have done for me.  Sometimes this is because I don't under-
stand the reason the library function needs to works the
way it does.  Other times it is one of the countless trade-
off made in the design of the language, which didn't happen
to go the way that would have been beneficial to me in a
particular coding situation.

But sometimes (and it feels too often) it seems as though,
zen not withstanding, that purity -- adherence to some
philosophic ideal -- beat practicality.
unichr/ord seems such as case to me,  But I want to be
sure I am not missing something.

The reasons for the current behavior so far:

1.
> What you propose would break the property "unichr(i) always returns
> a string of length one, if it returns anything at all".

Yes.  And i don't see the problem with that.  Why is
that property more desirable than the non-existent
property that a Unicode literal always produces one
python character?  It would only occur on a narrow
build with a unicode character outside of the bmp,
exactly the condition a unicode literal can "behave
differently" by producing two python characters.

2.
> >  But there is no reason given [in the PEP] for that behavior.
> Sure there is, right above the list:
> "Most things will behave identically in the wide and narrow worlds."
> That's the reason: scripts should work the same as much as possible
> in wide and narrow builds.

So what else would work "differently"?  My point was
that extending unichr/ord to work with all unicode
characters reduces differences far more often than
it increase them.

3.
>>       * There is a convention in the Unicode world for
>>         encoding a 32-bit code point in terms of two
>>         16-bit code points. These are known as
>>         "surrogate pairs". Python's codecs will adopt
>>         this convention.
>>
>>  Is a distinction made between Python and Python
>>  codecs with only the latter having any knowledge of
>>  surrogate pairs?
>
> No. In the end, the Unicode type represents code units,
> not code points, i.e. half surrogates are individually
> addressable. Codecs need to adjust to that; in particular
> the UTF-8 and the UTF-32 codec in narrow builds, and the
> UTF-16 codec in wide builds (which didn't exist when the
> PEP was written).

OK, so that is not a reason either.

4.
I'll speculate a little.
If surrogate handling was added to ord/unichr, it would
be the top of a slippery slope leading to demands that
other string functions also handle surrogates.

But this is not true -- there is a strong distinction
between ord/unichr and other string methods.  The latter
deal with strings of multiple characters.  But the former
deals only with single characters (taking a surrogate
pair as a single unicode character.)

The behavior of ord/unichr is independent of the other
string methods -- if they were changed with regard to
surrogate handling they would all have to be changed to
maintain consistent behavior.  Unichr/str affect only
each other.

The functions of ord/unichr -- to map characters to
numbers -- are fundamental string operations, akin to
indexing or extracting a substring.  So why would
one want to limit them to a subset of characters if
not absolutely necessary?

To reiterate, I am not advocating for any change.  I
simply want to understand if there is a good reason
for limiting the use of unchr/ord on narrow builds to
a subset of the unicode characters that Python otherwise
supports.  So far, it seems not and that unichr/ord
is a poster child for "purity beats practicality".


From tw55413 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 10:49:22 2009
From: tw55413 at gmail.com (erikj)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 07:49:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
References: 
	<7f519c34-2d6e-4fff-9489-dae43c6b2df1@r42g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
	<6b961048-782a-428c-9c0a-4fb17e87b57f@s13g2000yql.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 27, 2:31?pm, Neuruss  wrote:
> On 26 ago, 05:29, erikj  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi,
>
> > You could have a look at Camelot, to see if it fits
> > your needs :http://www.conceptive.be/projects/camelot/
>
> > it was developed with cross platform business apps in
> > mind. ?when developing Camelot, we tried to build it using
> > wxWidgets first (because of the licensing at that time),
> > but it turned out that developing with QT proved to be
> > much more straightforward. ?QT is documented very well
> > and you seldom encounter 'strange' issues that cost hours
> > of time to pinpoint and fix.
>
> > the datagrid was developed to be able to handle millions
> > of database records without glitches and is flexible thanks
> > to QT's model-view-delegate framework.
>
> > we do print barcodes with this app (even directly to
> > zebra printers)
>
> > if you have questions regarding Camelot, please feel free
> > to post on our mailing list :http://groups.google.com/group/project-camelot
>
> > Regards,
>
> > Erik
>
> > On Aug 24, 2:08?pm, Gilles Ganault  wrote:
>
> > > Hello
>
> > > ? ? ? ? I was wondering if some people in this ng use Python and someGUI
> > > toolkit (PyWin32, wxWidgets, QT, etc.) to build professional
> > > applications, and if yes, what it's like, the pros and cons, etc.
>
> > > I'm especially concerned about the lack of controls, the lack of
> > > updates (lots of controls in wxWidgets are 1.0 deadware), and problems
> > > linked to how to update users' PC remotely when I build a new version
> > > using eg. Py2exe.
>
> > > I need controls for business apps like access to databases, good data
> > > grid, printing reports (with or without barcodes), etc.
>
> > > Thank you.
>
> Looks interesting, but I wonder if I can use Camelot without its ORM.
> I feel that ORMs make easy things easier, but complex things much
> harder...
> Can I use it with plain old sql?
>
> Luis

Yes and no :)

It uses sqlalchemy as it's orm, which is quite flexible and allows the
use of
plain old sql, but you still have to map the result to objects for the
GUI to
to handle them.

You are right that the ORM makes easy things easier, eg. what we do a
lot is
to create our core model using the ORM, and then create the different
summaries
directly as views in the database (since these are usually very
complex
queries, and those tend to be easier to write/debug in plain old
sql).  Then
we use the ORM again to map those views back to objects and have them
visualized.

Cheers,

Erik


From timothy.tsvetkov at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 10:52:03 2009
From: timothy.tsvetkov at gmail.com (Timothy N. Tsvetkov)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 07:52:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: What python can NOT do?
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4A9870D4.8070800@tim.thechases.com>
	 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 29, 4:26?am, qwe rty  wrote:
> On Aug 29, 3:14?am, Tim Chase  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > >> what else can NOT be done in python? what are the limitations of the
> > >> language?
>
> > > I understand there's a little trouble getting Python to prove
> > > that P=NP ?You'll also find that it only comes close to solving
> > > the unrestricted three-body problem and the Traveling Salesman
> > > problem is still limited to fallible heuristics and searching the
> > > entire solution set in better than O(2**n) time.
>
> > I forgot about solving the Spam problem entirely. ?And answering
> > poorly worded/thought-out questions on the internet...
>
> > I've also been sorely disappointed by Python's ability to make a
> > good chocolate cream silk pie.
>
> > -tkc
>
> if you don't know the answer please don't reply

If you want to ask a silly question don't ask it.


From deets at nospam.web.de  Sat Aug 29 11:22:29 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:22:29 +0200
Subject: Combining C and Python programs
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7fsvdlF2lo7cgU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Sortie schrieb:
> I want to write a program that will use ode for the physics 
> simulation, whose python bindings are outdated. So I'm writing 
> the physics engine in C and want to write the drawing code in 
> Python. What will be the best way of making those two programs 
> work together? THe physics engine won't have to run concurrently 
> with the drawing code. It will only return some position data so 
> they can be drawn.

How about you update the ODE-bindings? They shouldn't be hard to enhance 
to cover the latest features.

Diez


From rtomek at ceti.com.pl  Sat Aug 29 11:51:30 2009
From: rtomek at ceti.com.pl (Tomasz Rola)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:51:30 +0200
Subject: What python can NOT do?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4A9870D4.8070800@tim.thechases.com>
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Sat, 29 Aug 2009, Timothy N. Tsvetkov wrote:

> On Aug 29, 4:26?am, qwe rty  wrote:
> > On Aug 29, 3:14?am, Tim Chase  wrote:
> >
> > > >> what else can NOT be done in python? what are the limitations of the
> > > >> language?
> >
[...]
> > > I forgot about solving the Spam problem entirely. ?And answering
> > > poorly worded/thought-out questions on the internet...
> >
> > > I've also been sorely disappointed by Python's ability to make a
> > > good chocolate cream silk pie.
> >
> > > -tkc
> >
> > if you don't know the answer please don't reply
> 
> If you want to ask a silly question don't ask it.

The question the OP asked was not silly.

Regards,
Tomasz Rola

--
** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature.      **
** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home    **
** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened...      **
**                                                                 **
** Tomasz Rola          mailto:tomasz_rola at bigfoot.com             **

From gherron at islandtraining.com  Sat Aug 29 12:12:29 2009
From: gherron at islandtraining.com (Gary Herron)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 09:12:29 -0700
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A99536D.6080002@islandtraining.com>

zaur wrote:
> Python 2.6.2 (r262:71600, Apr 16 2009, 09:17:39)
> [GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 5250)] on darwin
> Type "copyright", "credits" or "license()" for more information.
>   
>>>> a=1
>>>> x=[a]
>>>> id(a)==id(x[0])
>>>>         
> True
>   
>>>> a+=1
>>>> a
>>>>         
> 2
>   
>>>> x[0]
>>>>         
> 1
>
> I thought that += should only change the value of the int object. But
> += create new.
> Is this intentional?
>
>   

You don't need the (slight) complexity of += to see this.  Straight 
assignment shows the same behavior.

Try this:
a=1
print id(a)
a=2
print id(a)

The different results from the two prints happens because Python stores 
integers 1 and 2 in different locations and the assignments causes a to 
refer to one and then the other.

Gary Herron



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From vicente.soler at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 12:25:48 2009
From: vicente.soler at gmail.com (vsoler)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 09:25:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Colors on IDLE
References: 
	 
	
	<59922ab5-f8c9-429f-b1ea-9b1418aa6b71@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	<8d5d283f-b0bd-4e16-97c7-d2de1a148cae@l35g2000vba.googlegroups.com> 
	<311ec593-4050-4a6a-adbd-2325698a4b61@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 29, 1:34?pm, Thorsten Kampe  wrote:
> * vsoler (Sat, 29 Aug 2009 04:01:46 -0700 (PDT))
>
> > On Aug 29, 1:27?am, r  wrote:
> > > Have you tried saving the files as MYScriptName.py? notice the py
> > > extension, very important ;)
>
> > That was it!!!
>
> > I see the colors again. Thank you.
>
> I suggest you start using familiar technical terms. Like "syntax
> highlighting" instead of "see colours". That would increase the number
> of useful answers you get - at least it will stop people from thinking
> you talk about controlled substances.
>
> Thorsten

I'll keep it in mind for next time. Thank you

Vicente Soler


From gd_usenet at spamfence.net  Sat Aug 29 12:25:54 2009
From: gd_usenet at spamfence.net (=?UTF-8?Q?G=C3=BCnther?= Dietrich)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 18:25:54 +0200
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

Paul McGuire  wrote:

>What exactly are you trying to do?

I think, he wants to kind of dereference the list element. So that he 
can write

>>> a += 1

instead of

>>> long_name_of_a_list_which_contains_data[mnemonic_pointer_name] += 1



Regards,

G?nther


From cryzed at googlemail.com  Sat Aug 29 12:28:24 2009
From: cryzed at googlemail.com (cryzed)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 18:28:24 +0200
Subject: AutoIt/Autohotkey Python library for Linux
Message-ID: 

Hey, maybe some of you are familiar with the tools "AutoIt" () and 
"Autohotkey" () for Windows - I was wondering if you knew about Python 
libraries which provide similiar functionality for Python programs under 
Linux. That said, those libraries would have to rely on X11 internally 
to provide their functionality.

Also, yes, I know that there are X11-bindings for Python - but I 
honestly think that they aren't remotely useable and they are also 
incomplete.

It would be great if you guys had some tips for me.


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 13:17:38 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 10:17:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Transforming a str to an operator
References: 
	<87skfcblo3.fsf@benfinney.id.au>
	<91126ac3-e7fe-4b7a-a37d-d1e60beaa278@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <38877ac9-cc2d-4293-b682-cfaf5cd3c861@o13g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 28, 8:43?pm, Anny Mous  wrote:
> It isn't irrational to have a healthy caution towards eval.

Ignorance is never an excuse for stupidity. No caution is needed if
you know how to properly use eval. You can't shoot yourself in the
foot without first pulling the trigger.

> Apart from the security issues, running code in eval takes a massive
> performance hit. Its about ten times slower to run eval("x+1") than to run
> x+1 directly.

And the point is...?
eval is only for corner cases. Nobody is suggesting he eval entire
scripts. Performance is the last of my worries. Optimizations can come
later. First understand the problem at hand, code up a working
solution, then tweak and optimize the code to perfection.

> What makes you think that learning to program well in Python is a throw-away
> exercise of no useful purpose? I'm sure the code itself will be thrown away
> and forgotten, but it has a very important purpose: for the OP to learn
> good programming skills. Looks like you want him to learn bad skills, then
> spend the rest of his life trying to unlearn them.

No i want him to use eval properly .If you think eval is scary well
thats just your opinion. I showed the OP how to successfully pass the
arguments into eval the way he was unsuccesfully struggling to pass
them.  Ben's approach is the professional/proper way to handle such
input in the real world (there are other ways too), however the OP
also must know that you don't *have* to go by the book all the time
(python is not Java ya know?).

> > but serves the very
> > useful purpose now of establishing an IO between the student and
> > Python interpretor. I'll bet most your example (albeit a good example)
> > flew miles above his head into la-la land.
>
> How insulting. Is there anything that gave you the impression the OP was
> stupid?

Please quote the line from my post were i called the OP stupid or used
otherwise derogatory comments? And if you can i'll buy you a beer.
Obviously anyone who shows example code as the OP did is a noob and
needs proper training on how to use it and there is nothing wrong with
that. We have all been there, remember?

> > The OP has plenty of time to learn about malicious input and
> > protecting against it, right now the fundamentals are well...
> > fundamental :)
>
> When would you recommend he learns? When his web app is hijacked by
> gangsters in Russia and the personal details and financial records of fifty
> thousand people stolen? Protecting against malicious input *IS*
> fundamental.

If the OP uses eval without inderstanding it and then shoots himself
in the foot, well then i can't think of a better learning experience
for him. I'll bet the next time he will read the docs first or ask on
this list before he goes off on a turkey hunt ;).

Fear is a product of ignorance. Educate yourself and your irrational
fears shall bother you no more.



From cryzed at googlemail.com  Sat Aug 29 13:37:56 2009
From: cryzed at googlemail.com (cryzed)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 19:37:56 +0200
Subject: AutoIt/Autohotkey-like library for Linux
Message-ID: 

Hey, maybe some of you are familiar with the tools "AutoIt"
(http://www.autoitscript.com/autoit3/) and "Autohotkey"
(http://www.autohotkey.com/) for Windows - I was wondering if you knew
about Python libraries which provide similiar functionality for Python
programs under Linux. That said, those libraries would have to rely on
X11 internally to provide their functionality.

Also, yes, I know that there are X11-bindings for Python - but I
honestly think that they aren't remotely useable and they are also
incomplete.

It would be great if you guys had some tips for me.


From python at mrabarnett.plus.com  Sat Aug 29 13:39:11 2009
From: python at mrabarnett.plus.com (MRAB)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 18:39:11 +0100
Subject: Transforming a str to an operator
In-Reply-To: <38877ac9-cc2d-4293-b682-cfaf5cd3c861@o13g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: 	<87skfcblo3.fsf@benfinney.id.au>	<91126ac3-e7fe-4b7a-a37d-d1e60beaa278@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>	
	<38877ac9-cc2d-4293-b682-cfaf5cd3c861@o13g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A9967BF.6000700@mrabarnett.plus.com>

r wrote:
> On Aug 28, 8:43 pm, Anny Mous  wrote:
>> It isn't irrational to have a healthy caution towards eval.
> 
> Ignorance is never an excuse for stupidity. No caution is needed if
> you know how to properly use eval. You can't shoot yourself in the
> foot without first pulling the trigger.
> 
>> Apart from the security issues, running code in eval takes a massive
>> performance hit. Its about ten times slower to run eval("x+1") than to run
>> x+1 directly.
> 
> And the point is...?
> eval is only for corner cases. Nobody is suggesting he eval entire
> scripts. Performance is the last of my worries. Optimizations can come
> later. First understand the problem at hand, code up a working
> solution, then tweak and optimize the code to perfection.
> 
>> What makes you think that learning to program well in Python is a throw-away
>> exercise of no useful purpose? I'm sure the code itself will be thrown away
>> and forgotten, but it has a very important purpose: for the OP to learn
>> good programming skills. Looks like you want him to learn bad skills, then
>> spend the rest of his life trying to unlearn them.
> 
> No i want him to use eval properly .If you think eval is scary well
> thats just your opinion. I showed the OP how to successfully pass the
> arguments into eval the way he was unsuccesfully struggling to pass
> them.  Ben's approach is the professional/proper way to handle such
> input in the real world (there are other ways too), however the OP
> also must know that you don't *have* to go by the book all the time
> (python is not Java ya know?).
> 
>>> but serves the very
>>> useful purpose now of establishing an IO between the student and
>>> Python interpretor. I'll bet most your example (albeit a good example)
>>> flew miles above his head into la-la land.
>> How insulting. Is there anything that gave you the impression the OP was
>> stupid?
> 
> Please quote the line from my post were i called the OP stupid or used
> otherwise derogatory comments? And if you can i'll buy you a beer.
> Obviously anyone who shows example code as the OP did is a noob and
> needs proper training on how to use it and there is nothing wrong with
> that. We have all been there, remember?
> 
>>> The OP has plenty of time to learn about malicious input and
>>> protecting against it, right now the fundamentals are well...
>>> fundamental :)
>> When would you recommend he learns? When his web app is hijacked by
>> gangsters in Russia and the personal details and financial records of fifty
>> thousand people stolen? Protecting against malicious input *IS*
>> fundamental.
> 
> If the OP uses eval without inderstanding it and then shoots himself
> in the foot, well then i can't think of a better learning experience
> for him. I'll bet the next time he will read the docs first or ask on
> this list before he goes off on a turkey hunt ;).
> 
> Fear is a product of ignorance. Educate yourself and your irrational
> fears shall bother you no more.
> 
I think it's a good idea to warn the OP about the dangers of eval. If he
still wants to use it, then that's his choice (and his problem).


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Aug 29 14:06:34 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 29 Aug 2009 18:06:34 GMT
Subject: break unichr instead of fix ord?
References: <2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4A95A4D1.9060008@v.loewis.de>
	
	<4A961EE1.9010103@v.loewis.de>
	<65e6c430-9dc4-4a90-8448-f8f587d19750@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4a979172$0$11759$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	
Message-ID: <0022f1a7$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 07:38:51 -0700, rurpy wrote:

>  > Then, the next question is "why is it implemented that way", to which
>  > the answer is "because the PEP says so".
> 
> Not at all a satisfying answer unless one believes in PEPal
> infallibility. :-)

Not at all. You don't have to believe that PEPs are infallible to accept 
the answer, you just have to understand that major changes to Python 
aren't made arbitrarily, they have to go through a PEP first. Even Guido 
himself has to write a PEP before making any major changes to the 
language. But PEPs aren't infallible, they can be challenged, rejected, 
withdrawn or made obsolete by new PEPs.


> The reasons for the current behavior so far:
> 
> 1.
>> What you propose would break the property "unichr(i) always returns a
>> string of length one, if it returns anything at all".
> 
> Yes.  And i don't see the problem with that.  Why is that property more
> desirable than the non-existent property that a Unicode literal always
> produces one python character?

What do you mean? Unicode literals don't always produce one character, 
e.g. u'abcd' is a Unicode literal with four characters.

I think it's fairly self-evident that a function called uniCHR [emphasis 
added] should return a single character (technically a single code 
point). But even if you can come up with a reason for unichr() to return 
two or more characters, this would break code that relies on the 
documented promise that the length of the output of unichr() is always 
one.

> It would only occur on a narrow build
> with a unicode character outside of the bmp, exactly the condition a
> unicode literal can "behave differently" by producing two python
> characters.


> 2.
>> >  But there is no reason given [in the PEP] for that behavior.
>> Sure there is, right above the list:
>> "Most things will behave identically in the wide and narrow worlds."
>> That's the reason: scripts should work the same as much as possible in
>> wide and narrow builds.
> 
> So what else would work "differently"?  

unichr(n) sometimes would return one character and sometimes two; ord(c) 
would sometimes accept two characters and sometimes raise an exception. 
That's a fairly major difference.


> My point was that extending
> unichr/ord to work with all unicode characters reduces differences far
> more often than it increase them.

I don't see that at all. What differences do you think it would reduce?


> 3.
>>>       * There is a convention in the Unicode world for
>>>         encoding a 32-bit code point in terms of two 16-bit code
>>>         points. These are known as "surrogate pairs". Python's codecs
>>>         will adopt this convention.
>>>
>>>  Is a distinction made between Python and Python codecs with only the
>>>  latter having any knowledge of surrogate pairs?
>>
>> No. In the end, the Unicode type represents code units, not code
>> points, i.e. half surrogates are individually addressable. Codecs need
>> to adjust to that; in particular the UTF-8 and the UTF-32 codec in
>> narrow builds, and the UTF-16 codec in wide builds (which didn't exist
>> when the PEP was written).
> 
> OK, so that is not a reason either.

I think it is a very important reason. Python supports code points, so it 
has to support surrogate codes individually. Python can't tell if the 
pair of code points u'\ud800\udc40' represents the single character 
\U00010040 or a pair of code points \ud800 and \udc40.


> 4.
> I'll speculate a little.
> If surrogate handling was added to ord/unichr, it would be the top of a
> slippery slope leading to demands that other string functions also
> handle surrogates.
> 
> But this is not true -- there is a strong distinction between ord/unichr
> and other string methods.  The latter deal with strings of multiple
> characters.  But the former deals only with single characters (taking a
> surrogate pair as a single unicode character.)

Strictly speaking, unichr() deals with code points, not characters, 
although the distinction is very fine.

>>> c = unichr(56384)
>>> len(c)
1
>>> import unicodedata
>>> unicodedata.category(c)
'Cs'

Cs is the general category for "Other, Surrogate", so \udc40 is not 
strictly speaking a character. Nevertheless, Python treats it as one.


> To reiterate, I am not advocating for any change.  I simply want to
> understand if there is a good reason for limiting the use of unchr/ord
> on narrow builds to a subset of the unicode characters that Python
> otherwise supports.  So far, it seems not and that unichr/ord is a
> poster child for "purity beats practicality".

On the contrary, it seems pretty impractical to me for ord() to sometimes 
successfully accept strings of length two and sometimes to raise an 
exception. I would much rather see a pair of new functions, wideord() and 
widechr() used for converting between surrogate pairs and numbers.



-- 
Steven


From ivanko.rus at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 14:08:56 2009
From: ivanko.rus at gmail.com (ivanko.rus at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 18:08:56 +0000
Subject: IDE for Python
In-Reply-To: <7aa29e790908290214ode909c8od898918e86759daf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000e0cd20f80b36a6104724bb134@google.com>

29.08.2009 4:14 ???????????? "Thangappan.M"   
???????:
> Dear all,


> Please suggest some good IDE for python.I am working in linux platform.

> --
> Regards,
> Thangappan.M


You can use Eclipse + PyDev or Emacs+PythonMode . Also there are Anjuta and  
Code:Blocks, but they are designed mainly for C++ (but still can be used).
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From szport at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 14:11:43 2009
From: szport at gmail.com (zaur)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 11:11:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
References: 
	 
	
Message-ID: 

On 29 ???, 20:25, "G?nther Dietrich"  wrote:
> Paul McGuire  wrote:
> >What exactly are you trying to do?
>
> I think, he wants to kind of dereference the list element. So that he
> can write
>
> >>> a += 1
>
> instead of
>
> >>> long_name_of_a_list_which_contains_data[mnemonic_pointer_name] += 1
>
> Regards,
>
> G?nther

That's right. I thought that int as object will stay the same object
after += but with another integer value.
My intuition said me that int object which represent integer value
should behave this way.
But by design python's integer behave differently.

I fond that NumPy's 1-d types behaves as objects with mutable values.

>>> from numpy import *

>>> a=array([1])
>>> id(a)
10912544
>>> a += 1
>>> id(a)
10912544
>>> a
array([2])


From rtomek at ceti.com.pl  Sat Aug 29 14:18:07 2009
From: rtomek at ceti.com.pl (Tomasz Rola)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 20:18:07 +0200
Subject: What python can NOT do?
In-Reply-To: <00223e3f$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	
	<00223e3f$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sat, 29 Aug 2009, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 05:37:34 +0200, Tomasz Rola wrote:
> 
> > My private list of
> > things that when implemented in Python would be ugly to the point of
> > calling it difficult:
> > 
> > 1. AMB operator - my very favourite. In one sentence, either language
> > allows one to do it easily or one would not want to do it (in an ugly
> > way).
> > 
> > http://www.randomhacks.net/articles/2005/10/11/amb-operator
> 
> 
> Fascinating, but I don't exactly see how that's actually *useful*. It 
> strikes me of combining all the benefits of COME FROM with the potential 
> performance of Bogosort, but maybe I'm being harsh. 

Usefullness is totally different thing, I agree. However, amb could still 
find some following. I guess it is more about personal taste and 
willingness to look for better idioms in programming. I can imagine when 
they introduced for and while loops, people were pointing at conditional 
goto as more practical (I think every control structure can be modeled 
with it).

Id doesn't mean amb is better idiom, but it is something that could be 
tried - or not. One could write like this:

(partially stol####copied from the above link)

a = amb 1, 2, 3
b = amb 4, 5, 6
c = amb 7, 8, 9

if a*b + c != 27 :
  amb

print a,b,c

or one could write like this:

for a in [1, 2, 3]:
  for b in [4, 5, 6]:
    for c in [7, 8, 9]:
      if a*b+c == 27 :
        print a,b,c
        break

Which one would I choose? Well, amb of course. I consider it to be more 
readable which is, for me at least, useful. Now, try to imagine the same 
with ten variables. And longer lists. And some problems do not fit well 
into numpy (they could be non-numerical in nature).

> On the other hand, it sounds rather like Prolog-like declarative 
> programming. I fear that, like Prolog, it risks massive performance 
> degradation if you don't apply the constraints in the right order.

Of course, but this can be optimised. Either by hand or by a good 
compiler (whatever this means). Performance degradation is connected with 
abuse of every other programming technique, too. And besides, I believe 
one would sometimes trade performance for the ability to clearly express 
the idea behind the algorithm. Just as is the case with choosing Python 
rather than Java. For things I use Python for, I wouldn't use Java or C. 
Even though C is one of my beloved languages. If I ever used Prolog for 
anything, I wouldn't like to rewrite it in C or Python. I mean, languages 
should (in theory) be chosen and used with some consideration.

> > 2. Changing the language from the inside.
> > 
> > Everybody can change the interpreter, right? But how about doing some
> > bigger, maybe even fundamental change to the language by means offered
> > by the language itself?
> 
> Like Forth. You need it in Forth, because it has a very sparse set of 
> language features, and everything is bootstrapped from a small set of 
> commands, so the ability to re-define the language as you go is (1) 
> necessary and (2) free.

It also leads to writing code in an incredibly expressive manner. I've 
never done anything big in Forth. I only had a two weeks long exposure to 
it in times, when you loaded such things from casette recorder ;-/... But 
from time to time I find some interesting pieces, like a disk driver whose 
source would fit into a comment of one Python function :-).

> But for Python, I don't know... it sounds cool, but in practice? It 
> sounds like the sort of thing that allows programmers to spend three 
> hours writing a new control structure which will save them three minutes.

It really is not so. Writing something for three hours and using it only 
once sounds more like programming excercise, less like real life work. To 
write a function I need to know at least two places in my code where it 
would be used (well, I am oversimplifying, ok? sometimes one place is 
sufficient). I think reasonable people would judge language extension by 
similar criteria. They would possibly stay away from this as long as 
possible (I have such possibility from some time but I just don't touch 
macros, which by my own words makes me reasonable, wow :-)... or a 
coward...).

> And of course, for all but the tiniest, one-man-band applications, 
> readability is important. Sure, you've created a gee-whizz control 
> structure which combines try, while and if into one keyword, and it 
> automatically does logging and threading, fantastic. But how will anyone 
> else be able to maintain it when you're gone?

This is comparable to me creating a gee-whizz function library and using 
it. I cannot see a problem as long as I document (with use cases, tests 
etc).

There is something better in this idea. Suppose I would have invented a 
better control structure and posted the source code here? Some would have 
found it amusing, others would have tried it, posted their comments, 
leading to improvements and further spreading. Finally - who knows - it 
could have found a way in to a standard. And even if not, it should still 
remain as a loadable extension for quite some time.

> The ability to change the language is one step into a tarpit, where 
> everything is possible but nothing is easy, and where you spend all your 
> time writing language features and none of your time building the useful 
> functionality you actually want.

I don't think this is much different from the situation when I would write 
string processing library (that would be used further in the program) 
rather than "building useful functionality" - which would be what, 
programming buttons :-)?

For me, it looks like language elements should not be protected from my 
tinkering. Think about operators in Python. I can define my own "+" for 
some objects, which has been decided on Python's upper levels :-). In 
fact, as far as I remember, I have never used this feature. But knowing 
there is some possibility, space to grow, is good.

> It sounds like something you want in a 
> language you use for designing languages, rather than writing 
> applications.

Yes indeed, Lisps have been used to prototype some other languages. 
However, I am not sure if the boundary between a language and an app could 
be strictly defined. If adding new words to the language dictionary by 
writing a library is considered a good programming practice, then why 
adding a new keyword and syntax should not be considered as such?

Ok, since I myself have written above I didn't use those features from 
very upper shelve, one could ask what is my point. The point is, if I 
wanted to, I could have used them. Click and go. Do anything that by my 
own judgement is good for code progress rather than murmuring about my 
code being less elegant and expressive that it could have been. I mean, if 
my job was beheading people, I would rather do it with sharp axe because 
it is more expressive and elegant than sawing their necks with piece of 
wood. And besides the job is better done and less boring for parties 
involved. So, my going after elegance is not so much whimsical, at least 
not from my point of view. I believe there is something more to it than 
just esthetics.

Just in case - I am not voting for changes in Python. Quite far from this. 
Only expressing my opinions etc. As I have already mentioned in some other 
posts of mine, Python is good for few things I do and for other things I 
use other tools. That's it.

Regards,
Tomasz Rola

--
** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature.      **
** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home    **
** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened...      **
**                                                                 **
** Tomasz Rola          mailto:tomasz_rola at bigfoot.com             **


From bouncyinc at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 14:38:20 2009
From: bouncyinc at gmail.com (John Haggerty)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 12:38:20 -0600
Subject: What python can NOT do?
In-Reply-To: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Theoretically a microkernel could be used to do the stuff python directly
couldn't do and the rest could be done once an interpreter was loaded in
theory.

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 4:37 PM, qwe rty  wrote:

> i know that an interpreted language like python can't be used to make
> an operating system or system drivers.
>
> what else can NOT be done in python? what are the limitations of the
> language?
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
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From philip at semanchuk.com  Sat Aug 29 14:46:15 2009
From: philip at semanchuk.com (Philip Semanchuk)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 14:46:15 -0400
Subject: Combining C and Python programs
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <0BBCF0D2-789B-4FD2-B5E6-AE81C07A6273@semanchuk.com>


On Aug 29, 2009, at 3:54 AM, Sortie wrote:

> I want to write a program that will use ode for the physics
> simulation, whose python bindings are outdated. So I'm writing
> the physics engine in C and want to write the drawing code in
> Python. What will be the best way of making those two programs
> work together? THe physics engine won't have to run concurrently
> with the drawing code. It will only return some position data so
> they can be drawn.


I'd look at ctypes first, as Hendrik suggested. It's pretty simple and  
part of the standard library.

If that doesn't work for you for some reason and you're willing to use  
something outside of the standard library, you might find Cython useful.


Good luck
Philip


From diogo.neves at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 14:54:09 2009
From: diogo.neves at gmail.com (Diogo Neves)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 19:54:09 +0100
Subject: IDE for Python
In-Reply-To: <000e0cd20f80b36a6104724bb134@google.com>
References: <7aa29e790908290214ode909c8od898918e86759daf@mail.gmail.com>
	<000e0cd20f80b36a6104724bb134@google.com>
Message-ID: 

Is IDLE (the editor that comes with Python) good? I'm just starting now, but
it looks ok.

2009/8/29 

> 29.08.2009 4:14 ???????????? "Thangappan.M" 
> ???????:
> > Dear all,
> >
> >
> >            Please suggest some good IDE for python.I am working in linux
> platform.
> >
> > --
> > Regards,
> > Thangappan.M
> >
>
> You can use Eclipse + PyDev or Emacs+PythonMode . Also there are Anjuta and
> Code:Blocks, but they are designed mainly for C++ (but still can be used).
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
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From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Aug 29 15:03:23 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 29 Aug 2009 19:03:23 GMT
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: <0022fef9$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 11:11:43 -0700, zaur wrote:

> I thought that int as object will stay the same object after += but with
> another integer value. My intuition said me that int object which
> represent integer value should behave this way.

If it did, then you would have this behaviour:


>>> n = 3                     # bind the name n to the object 3
>>> saved_id = id(n)          # get the id of the object
>>> n += 1                    # add one to the object 3
>>> assert n == 4             # confirm that it has value four
>>> assert id(n) == saved_id  # confirm that it is the same object
>>> m = 3                     # bind the name m to the object 3
>>> print m + 1               # but object 3 has been modified
5

This would be pretty disturbing behaviour, and anything but intuitive.

Fortunately, Python avoids this behaviour by making ints immutable. You 
can't change the object 3 to have any other value, it will always have 
value three, and consequently n+=1 assigns a new object to n.


-- 
Steven


From nobody at nowhere.com  Sat Aug 29 15:09:12 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 20:09:12 +0100
Subject: (Simple?) Unicode Question
References: <332972a20908270939m57be4e51tc5785b880ec642b3@mail.gmail.com>
	
	
	<002269cb$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 08:26:54 +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> Python only needs to know when you convert the text to or from bytes. I 
> can do this:
> 
>>>> s = "hello"
>>>> t = "world"
>>>> print(' '.join([s, t]))
> hello world
> 
> and not need to care anything about encodings.
> 
> So long as your terminal has a sensible encoding, and you have a good 
> quality font, you should be able to print any string you can create.

UTF-8 isn't a particularly sensible encoding for terminals.

And "Unicode font" is an oxymoron. You can merge a whole bunch of fonts
together and stuff them into a TTF file; that doesn't make them "a font",
though.

>>> I may be wrong, but I believe that's part of the idea between
>>> separation of string and bytes types in Python 3.x. I believe, if you
>>> are using Python 3.x, you don't need the character encoding mumbo jumbo
>>> at all ;-)
>> 
>> Nothing has changed in that regard. You still need to decode and encode
>> text and for that you have to know the encoding.
> 
> You only need to worry about encoding when you convert from bytes to 
> text, and visa versa. Admittedly, the most common time you need to do 
> that is when reading input from files, but if all your text strings are 
> generated by Python, and not output anywhere, you shouldn't need to care 
> about encodings.

Why would you generate text strings and not output them anywhere?

The main advantage of using Unicode internally is that you can associate
encodings with the specific points where data needs to be converted
to/from bytes, rather than having to carry the encoding details around the
program.



From nobody at nowhere.com  Sat Aug 29 15:19:36 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 20:19:36 +0100
Subject: Query screen resolution?
References: <7d57e7c2-39bf-4515-8642-6bcbeba0492c@u16g2000pru.googlegroups.com>
	
	<409bf880-4e4b-48f4-8cfc-ecacf262d782@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 20:15:57 -0700, Warpcat wrote:

>> Your question is based upon the notion that "the screen" is a meaningful
>> concept. Once you move away from Windows (and systems which intentionally
>> try to be like Windows), that's no longer true.
> 
> Good points.  Always something I haven't thought of.  Ok so... let's
> *presume* the user has a measurable screen on win\mac\linux\etc since
> on any other OS they wouldn't be running the app....

If it's a GUI app, you ask the GUI toolkit which you're using.

[And if it isn't a GUI app, why would the screen resolution be relevant?]



From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sat Aug 29 15:31:39 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 12:31:39 -0700
Subject: how to edit .wsgi file extebtions with IDLE on windows
In-Reply-To: <58a021ce-3058-483d-b429-6ba4855807ac@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	<58a021ce-3058-483d-b429-6ba4855807ac@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908291231l75e91893lffe18bc9d46f617a@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 5:40 AM, gert wrote:
> On Aug 29, 6:43?am, "Gabriel Genellina" 
> wrote:
>> En Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:31:31 -0300, gert  escribi?:
>>
>> > I can't figure out how to enable the .py shell and syntax highlighting
>> > for .wsgi file extensions using IDLE for windows ?
>>
>> That's a Windows question, not a Python one. You have to associate the
>> .wsgi extension with the Python.File file type (the one used for .py
>> files):
>>
>> D:\USERDATA\Gabriel>assoc .py
>> .py=Python.File
>>
>> D:\USERDATA\Gabriel>assoc .wsgi=Python.File
>> .wsgi=Python.File
>>
>
> Thanks that does make it open exactly like a .py file, expect that
> there is no syntax highlighting. Don't know if this is also a windows
> issue or a IDLE issue ?

That's an IDLE issue; it only highlights files with .py (and possibly
.pyw) extensions.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Aug 29 15:33:45 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 29 Aug 2009 12:33:45 -0700
Subject: Select column from a list
References: <25185508.post@talk.nabble.com>
	<9fdb569a0908280228g59038ba1u30d6d5ef9d6a80ca@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
Anthra Norell   wrote:
>Vlastimil Brom wrote:
>> 2009/8/28 hoffik :
>>>
>>> I'm quite new in Python and I have one question. I have a 2D matrix of
>>> values stored in list (3 columns, many rows). I wonder if I can select one
>>> column without having to go through the list with 'for' command.
>>
>> I guess, it won't be possible without an explicit or implicit loop;
>> you may try:
>>   
>>>>> from operator import itemgetter
>>>>> nested_list = [[1, 2, 3], [10, 20, 30], [100, 200, 300]]
>>>>> map(itemgetter(1), nested_list)
>>         
>> [2, 20, 200]
>   
>How about rotating the list with zip?
> >>> zip (*nested_list)[1]
>(2, 20, 200)

That's an implicit loop, plus it consumes an O(M*N) chunk of memory for
the intermediate list.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I support family values -- Addams family values" --www.nancybuttons.com


From vlastimil.brom at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 15:43:58 2009
From: vlastimil.brom at gmail.com (Vlastimil Brom)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 21:43:58 +0200
Subject: break unichr instead of fix ord?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4A95A4D1.9060008@v.loewis.de>
	
	<4A961EE1.9010103@v.loewis.de>
	<65e6c430-9dc4-4a90-8448-f8f587d19750@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4a979172$0$11759$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	
Message-ID: <9fdb569a0908291243l9c33dbeu61debb104d2c13fc@mail.gmail.com>

2009/8/29  :
> On 08/28/2009 02:12 AM, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote:
>
> So far, it seems not and that unichr/ord
> is a poster child for "purity beats practicality".
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>

As Mark Tolonen pointed out earlier in this thread, in Python 3 the
practicality apparently beat purity in this aspect:

Python 3.1.1 (r311:74483, Aug 17 2009, 17:02:12) [MSC v.1500 32 bit
(Intel)] on win32
Type "copyright", "credits" or "license()" for more information.

>>> goth_urus_1 = '\U0001033f'
>>> list(goth_urus_1)
['\ud800', '\udf3f']
>>> len(goth_urus_1)
2
>>> ord(goth_urus_1)
66367
>>> goth_urus_2 = chr(66367)
>>> len(goth_urus_2)
2
>>> import unicodedata
>>> unicodedata.name(goth_urus_1)
'GOTHIC LETTER URUS'
>>> goth_urus_3 = unicodedata.lookup("GOTHIC LETTER URUS")
>>> goth_urus_4 = "\N{GOTHIC LETTER URUS}"
>>> goth_urus_1 == goth_urus_2 == goth_urus_3 == goth_urus_4
True
>>>

As for the behaviour in python 2.x, it's probably good enough, that
the surrogates aren't prohibited and the eventually needed behaviour
can be easily added via custom functions.

vbr


From nagle at animats.com  Sat Aug 29 15:46:52 2009
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 12:46:52 -0700
Subject: What python can NOT do?
In-Reply-To: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a998465$0$1637$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

qwe rty wrote:
> i know that an interpreted language like python can't be used to make
> an operating system or system drivers.
> 
> what else can NOT be done in python? what are the limitations of the
> language?

    Speed, basically.  CPython is on the slow side.  This is not
inherent in the language; it's an implementation problem.
The Shed Skin compiler is approaching C speeds,
but you have to accept some modest restrictions on run-time dynamism.

    Also, CPython does not use multiple processors well.  In fact,
multiple cores make CPython performance worse.  (There's a long
analysis of this that's been discussed here recently.)

    Personally, I consider Python to be a good language held back by
too-close ties to a naive interpreter implementation and the lack
of a formal standard for the language.

					John Nagle


From ivanko.rus at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 16:08:51 2009
From: ivanko.rus at gmail.com (ivanko.rus at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 20:08:51 +0000
Subject: Python Noob - gui module, book, annoying questions
In-Reply-To: <92cc4ca1-0e0d-4355-8d9a-b4928390e619@q35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <000e0cd117da963eed04724d5ea6@google.com>

29.08.2009 2:20 ???????????? Pherdnut  ???????:
> I want to write cross-platform stuff. Any opinions on the best GUI

> module for that?
There are many options for this. For example GTK+ (pygtk), tkinter, QT.  
GTK+ is a little bit complicated, but you can use glade to make the GUIs.  
Tkinter is built-in and pretty simple (although not so feature-rich). QT -  
ok, I haven't used it. Personally I prefer GTK+ (using pygtk module)
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From webcokies at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 29 16:13:12 2009
From: webcokies at yahoo.com (Joni Lee)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 13:13:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: a popen command line question
Message-ID: <964997.10840.qm@web36907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi all,

I write a small script

status = os.popen('top').readlines()
print status

It calls the command line "top" and will print out the status.
But I have to press the keyboard "q" to quit "top", then the status will be printed, otherwise it just stands by with blank.

Question is. Do you know how to give "q" into my python script so that "top" is automatically quit immediately or maybe after 1s (for gathering information)

Sorry the question is weird.



      
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From gert.cuykens at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 16:14:14 2009
From: gert.cuykens at gmail.com (gert)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 13:14:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: how to edit .wsgi file extebtions with IDLE on windows
References: 
	
	<58a021ce-3058-483d-b429-6ba4855807ac@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <00795942-19ae-4d0e-9259-79ae00c34fc5@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 29, 9:31?pm, Chris Rebert  wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 5:40 AM, gert wrote:
> > On Aug 29, 6:43?am, "Gabriel Genellina" 
> > wrote:
> >> En Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:31:31 -0300, gert  escribi?:
>
> >> > I can't figure out how to enable the .py shell and syntax highlighting
> >> > for .wsgi file extensions using IDLE for windows ?
>
> >> That's a Windows question, not a Python one. You have to associate the
> >> .wsgi extension with the Python.File file type (the one used for .py
> >> files):
>
> >> D:\USERDATA\Gabriel>assoc .py
> >> .py=Python.File
>
> >> D:\USERDATA\Gabriel>assoc .wsgi=Python.File
> >> .wsgi=Python.File
>
> > Thanks that does make it open exactly like a .py file, expect that
> > there is no syntax highlighting. Don't know if this is also a windows
> > issue or a IDLE issue ?
>
> That's an IDLE issue; it only highlights files with .py (and possibly
> .pyw) extensions.
>

Any chance they would make a highlight option in the menu ?


From danb_83 at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 29 16:25:35 2009
From: danb_83 at yahoo.com (AggieDan04)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 13:25:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 29, 8:08?am, Paul McGuire  wrote:
> On Aug 29, 7:45?am, zaur  wrote:
>
> > Python 2.6.2 (r262:71600, Apr 16 2009, 09:17:39)
> > [GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 5250)] on darwin
> > Type "copyright", "credits" or "license()" for more information.>>> a=1
> > >>> x=[a]
> > >>> id(a)==id(x[0])
> > True
> > >>> a+=1
> > >>> a
> > 2
> > >>> x[0]
>
> > 1
>
> > I thought that += should only change the value of the int object. But
> > += create new.
> > Is this intentional?
>
> ints are immutable. ?But your logic works fine with a mutable object,
> like a list:

Technically, mutability isn't the issue: There's nothing enforcing
that a mutable object HAS to have an __iadd__ method that returns the
same object.


From pogonyshev at gmx.net  Sat Aug 29 16:27:03 2009
From: pogonyshev at gmx.net (Paul Pogonyshev)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 23:27:03 +0300
Subject: weak reference callback
Message-ID: <200908292327.03416.pogonyshev@gmx.net>

Hi,

Is weak reference callback called immediately after the referenced
object is deleted or at arbitrary point in time after that?  I.e. is
it possible to see a dead reference before the callback is called?

More formally, will this ever raise?

    callback_called = False
    def note_deletion (ref):
        callback_called = True

    x = ...
    ref = weakref.ref (x, note_deletion)

    ...

    if ref () is None and not callback_called:
        raise RuntimeError ("reference is dead, yet callback hasn't been called yet")

Paul


From sergiocharpinel at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 16:27:45 2009
From: sergiocharpinel at gmail.com (Sergio Charpinel Jr.)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:27:45 -0300
Subject: Sqlite format string
Message-ID: 

Hi,
I have this statement cursor.execute("SELECT * from session_attribute WHERE
sid=%s", ( user ))
and I'm receiving this error :

TypeError: not all arguments converted during string formatting

What is wrong ?
-- 
Sergio Roberto Charpinel Jr.
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From ivanko.rus at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 16:28:26 2009
From: ivanko.rus at gmail.com (ivanko.rus at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 20:28:26 +0000
Subject: Monitoring stdout in (more or less) real time
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <000e0cd2175497123704724da485@google.com>

29.08.2009 2:21 ???????????? Gabriel Genellina   
???????:
> En Sat, 29 Aug 2009 03:28:26 -0300, ivanko.rus at gmail.com> escribi?:




> Hello to everyone! I am making a program that will be a GTK+ frontend to

> ffmpeg. Naturally, one of the main functions is parsing ffmpeg's output.

> It's pretty simple when I, for example, retrieve information about a file

> (the program finishes and I read the output). But it also needs to parse

> working ffmpeg's output (in order to retrieve the percentage, remaining

> time, etc.). So, actually what I do is Popen ffmpeg, and connect to its

> stdout. And as stdout is represented by a file object, it needs to be

> read(). The problem is that read() reads until EOF is reached, which

> doesn't exist while the program is running (the same goes with

> communicate()).

> So my question is: is there a way to retrieve the stdout without waiting

> the program to finish?




> You don't have to read the complete output at once - you may process it  
> line by line, I presume. I'd use a second thread to read the pipe and put  
> the lines onto a Queue object; the main thread gets lines from the Queue  
> when available.



> --

> Gabriel Genellina



> --

> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Thanks, Gabriel, but I resolved that problem in another way. thrashold in  
irc.freenode.net gave me the solution.
What i do now is:

p = Popen(["cmd","arg"],stdout=PIPE,stderr=STDOUT)
fcntl.fcntl(p.stdout.fileno(), fcntl.F_SETFL, os.O_NONBLOCK)
p.stdout.read()

And in that way p.stdout.read() doesn't wait the program to finish, but  
gives me instant response. But anyway, thanks! =)
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From ivanko.rus at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 16:31:38 2009
From: ivanko.rus at gmail.com (ivanko.rus at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 20:31:38 +0000
Subject: IDE for python similar to visual basic
In-Reply-To: <2127e0be-3b93-406f-99a7-5fe02e643b40@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <000e0cd170f00a493904724db0ec@google.com>

29.08.2009 1:32 ???????????? Vivian Wang  ???????:
> On Aug 29, 6:19 am, qwe rty hkh00... at gmail.com> wrote:

> > i have been searching for am IDE for python that is similar to Visual

> > Basic but had no luck.shall you help me please?





> You can try biform:

> http://www.bilive.com/download/Setup_BiForm_V2.1_en.msi.zip



> Demo:

> http://www.bilive.com/demo/BiForm_EN_demo.htm



> More demo:(Chinese version)

> http://www.bilive.com/demo/



> BiForm is a form designer,one designed form will deploy as a PFF file.

> BiReader is a runtime PFF file process engine for end-users.

> Setup file above include BiForm and BiReader.



> Main features:

> *Python as script language,base on QT GUI library

> *Visible form designer

> *Internal database access framework

> *Auto connect database,auto create tables

> *Supports SQLite/Mssql2000/Sybase ASE,not need write diffrent script

> for diffrent database at most time

> *Simple deploy,simple upgrade

> *Different forms can share same tables,they will auto cooperation with

> other forms at runtime.If you want to deploy a new function , not need

> uninstall other forms,deploy the new PFF file is enough .



> --

> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

You can also try Eclipse + PyDev. It's not the same as Visual Studio, and I  
am not sure about the GUI builder, but I think it's what you want.
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From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Sat Aug 29 17:12:06 2009
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 16:12:06 -0500
Subject: Sqlite format string
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4A9999A6.4030804@tim.thechases.com>

> I have this statement cursor.execute("SELECT * from session_attribute WHERE
> sid=%s", ( user ))
> and I'm receiving this error :
> 
> TypeError: not all arguments converted during string formatting

Two possibilities occur to me:

1) the 2nd parameter to execute() usually needs to be a tuple (or 
maybe a list), so try

   cursor.execute("select ...", (user, ))

with the extra comma after "user".



2) More likely, check your sqlite3.paramstyle to see what sqlite 
is expecting (it's defined at the module-level):

   import sqlite3
   print sqlite3.paramstyle

Mine here is set to "qmark" which means that sqlite is expecting

   cursor.execute("... WHERE sid=?", (user,))

instead of the "format" style you're using:

   cursor.execute("... WHERE sid=%s", (user,))

as defined in http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0249/



Hope this helps,

-tkc







From lists at cheimes.de  Sat Aug 29 17:14:17 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 23:14:17 +0200
Subject: weak reference callback
In-Reply-To: <200908292327.03416.pogonyshev@gmx.net>
References: <200908292327.03416.pogonyshev@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <4A999A29.4050108@cheimes.de>

Paul Pogonyshev wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Is weak reference callback called immediately after the referenced
> object is deleted or at arbitrary point in time after that?  I.e. is
> it possible to see a dead reference before the callback is called?
> 
> More formally, will this ever raise?
> 
>     callback_called = False
>     def note_deletion (ref):
>         callback_called = True
> 
>     x = ...
>     ref = weakref.ref (x, note_deletion)
> 
>     ...
> 
>     if ref () is None and not callback_called:
>         raise RuntimeError ("reference is dead, yet callback hasn't been called yet")

Yes, you'll definitely see a RuntimeError because you forgot to declare
callback_called as a global variable. :)

Christian


From pogonyshev at gmx.net  Sat Aug 29 17:14:38 2009
From: pogonyshev at gmx.net (Paul Pogonyshev)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 00:14:38 +0300
Subject: weak reference callback
In-Reply-To: <4A999A29.4050108@cheimes.de>
References: <200908292327.03416.pogonyshev@gmx.net>
	<4A999A29.4050108@cheimes.de>
Message-ID: <200908300014.38644.pogonyshev@gmx.net>

Christian Heimes wrote:
> Paul Pogonyshev wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > Is weak reference callback called immediately after the referenced
> > object is deleted or at arbitrary point in time after that?  I.e. is
> > it possible to see a dead reference before the callback is called?
> > 
> > More formally, will this ever raise?
> > 
> >     callback_called = False
> >     def note_deletion (ref):
> >         callback_called = True
> > 
> >     x = ...
> >     ref = weakref.ref (x, note_deletion)
> > 
> >     ...
> > 
> >     if ref () is None and not callback_called:
> >         raise RuntimeError ("reference is dead, yet callback hasn't been called yet")
> 
> Yes, you'll definitely see a RuntimeError because you forgot to declare
> callback_called as a global variable. :)

Thanks.  Any useful answers though?

    callback_called = False
    def note_deletion (ref):
        global callback_called
        callback_called = True

    x = ...
    ref = weakref.ref (x, note_deletion)

    ...

    if ref () is None and not callback_called:
        raise RuntimeError ("reference is dead, yet callback hasn't been called yet")

Paul


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Sat Aug 29 17:16:02 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 18:16:02 -0300
Subject: how to edit .wsgi file extebtions with IDLE on windows
References: 
	
	<58a021ce-3058-483d-b429-6ba4855807ac@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	
	<00795942-19ae-4d0e-9259-79ae00c34fc5@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

En Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:14:14 -0300, gert  escribi?:
> On Aug 29, 9:31?pm, Chris Rebert  wrote:
>> On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 5:40 AM, gert wrote:
>> > On Aug 29, 6:43?am, "Gabriel Genellina" 
>> > wrote:
>> >> En Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:31:31 -0300, gert   
>> escribi?:
>>
>> >> > I can't figure out how to enable the .py shell and syntax  
>> highlighting
>> >> > for .wsgi file extensions using IDLE for windows ?
>>
>> >> That's a Windows question, not a Python one. You have to associate  
>> the
>> >> .wsgi extension with the Python.File file type (the one used for .py
>> >> files):
>>
>> >> D:\USERDATA\Gabriel>assoc .py
>> >> .py=Python.File
>>
>> >> D:\USERDATA\Gabriel>assoc .wsgi=Python.File
>> >> .wsgi=Python.File
>>
>> > Thanks that does make it open exactly like a .py file, expect that
>> > there is no syntax highlighting. Don't know if this is also a windows
>> > issue or a IDLE issue ?
>>
>> That's an IDLE issue; it only highlights files with .py (and possibly
>> .pyw) extensions.
>>
>
> Any chance they would make a highlight option in the menu ?

Two alternatives:

a) Ensure your scripts contain a shebang - no purpose on Windows, but IDLE  
recognizes the file as a Python file. That is, make sure the very first  
line is like this:

#!c:\python26\python.exe

(it must start with #! and contain the word "python" somewhere)

b) Edit IDLE sources:

- Locate the file EditorWindow.py in the idlelib package.

- Add this line near the top:
   import _winreg

- Modify function ispythonsource near line 580 as follows:

     def ispythonsource(self, filename):
         if not filename or os.path.isdir(filename):
             return True
         base, ext = os.path.splitext(os.path.basename(filename))
         if os.path.normcase(ext) in (".py", ".pyw"):
             return True
         ### add these 4 lines ###
         with _winreg.OpenKey(_winreg.HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT, ext) as key:
             ftype = _winreg.QueryValueEx(key, None)[0]
             if ftype.lower() in ("python.file","python.noconfile"):
                 return True
         ### end ###
         try:
             f = open(filename)
             line = f.readline()
             f.close()
         except IOError:
             return False
         return line.startswith('#!') and line.find('python') >= 0



-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From ivanko.rus at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 17:44:10 2009
From: ivanko.rus at gmail.com (ivanko.rus at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 21:44:10 +0000
Subject: Sqlite format string
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <000e0cd2142c6f325d04724eb3c7@google.com>

29.08.2009 15:40 ???????????? "Sergio Charpinel Jr."  
 ???????:
> Thanks.
> Do you know if both of them works for mysql too?

> 2009/8/29 ivanko.rus at gmail.com>

> 29.08.2009 15:27 ???????????? "Sergio Charpinel Jr."  
> sergiocharpinel at gmail.com> ???????:

Actually, this works for any string (it doesn't depend on anything else).  
So you can pass "somestring {0}".format(foo) to any function because the  
string will be formatted _first_ and then passed as an argument. The same  
goes with "somestring %s" % "foo". Both will work
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From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Aug 29 18:23:38 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 29 Aug 2009 15:23:38 -0700
Subject: What python can NOT do?
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4a998465$0$1637$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: 

In article <4a998465$0$1637$742ec2ed at news.sonic.net>,
John Nagle   wrote:
>
>    Personally, I consider Python to be a good language held back by
>too-close ties to a naive interpreter implementation and the lack
>of a formal standard for the language.

Name one language under active development that has not been harmed by a
formal standard.  (I think C doesn't count -- there was relatively little
development of C after the standards process started.)
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I support family values -- Addams family values" --www.nancybuttons.com


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Sat Aug 29 18:26:38 2009
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:26:38 -0500
Subject: Sqlite format string
In-Reply-To: <000e0cd2142c6f325d04724eb3c7@google.com>
References: 
	<000e0cd2142c6f325d04724eb3c7@google.com>
Message-ID: <4A99AB1E.5040600@tim.thechases.com>

ivanko.rus at gmail.com wrote:
> 29.08.2009 15:40 ???????????? "Sergio Charpinel Jr."  
>  ???????:
>> Thanks.
>> Do you know if both of them works for mysql too?
> 
>> 2009/8/29 ivanko.rus at gmail.com>
> 
>> 29.08.2009 15:27 ???????????? "Sergio Charpinel Jr."  
>> sergiocharpinel at gmail.com> ???????:
> 
> Actually, this works for any string (it doesn't depend on anything else).  
> So you can pass "somestring {0}".format(foo) to any function because the  
> string will be formatted _first_ and then passed as an argument. The same  
> goes with "somestring %s" % "foo". Both will work

Bad idea when assembling SQL, unless you _like_ SQL-injection 
attacks:

  sql = "select * from users where name='%s' and password='%s'"

  # get some values from an untrusted user:
  name = "administrator"
  password = "' or 1=1; drop table users; --"

  cursor.execute(sql % (name, password))
  # uh-oh!

This is why it's so important to use the DB API's own escaping 
functions.

-tkc







From ivanko.rus at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 18:40:46 2009
From: ivanko.rus at gmail.com (ivanko.rus at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 22:40:46 +0000
Subject: Sqlite format string
In-Reply-To: <4A99AB1E.5040600@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <000e0cd2142ce07bf104724f7d3b@google.com>

29.08.2009 17:26 ???????????? Tim Chase   
???????:
> ivanko.rus at gmail.com wrote:


> 29.08.2009 15:40 ???????????? "Sergio Charpinel Jr."  
> sergiocharpinel at gmail.com> ???????:


> Thanks.

> Do you know if both of them works for mysql too?





> 2009/8/29 ivanko.rus at gmail.com>





> 29.08.2009 15:27 ???????????? "Sergio Charpinel Jr."  
> sergiocharpinel at gmail.com> ???????:




> Actually, this works for any string (it doesn't depend on anything else).  
> So you can pass "somestring {0}".format(foo) to any function because the  
> string will be formatted _first_ and then passed as an argument. The same  
> goes with "somestring %s" % "foo". Both will work




> Bad idea when assembling SQL, unless you _like_ SQL-injection attacks:



> sql = "select * from users where name='%s' and password='%s'"



> # get some values from an untrusted user:

> name = "administrator"

> password = "' or 1=1; drop table users; --"



> cursor.execute(sql % (name, password))

> # uh-oh!



> This is why it's so important to use the DB API's own escaping functions.



> -tkc
Sergio, Tim Chase is absolutely right! What you can do here is check every  
field separately OR you can modify the format() method to automatically do  
that. In the second case, you need to create your method first and then  
assign it to the str.format method like that: str.format =  
your_format_method . Note that there are NO parenthesis. For more details,  
look at this recipe: http://code.activestate.com/recipes/92823/ . I think  
it will simplify the things for you later, as every time you will call the  
str.format method, the values will be checked automatically.
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From rt8396 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 18:46:31 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 15:46:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
Message-ID: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>

I was reading the thread here...
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/db90a9629b92aab0/b0385050b4c6c84e?hl=en&lnk=raot#b0385050b4c6c84e

and it raised some fundamental philophosical questions to me about
natural languages and Unicode. Which IMO * Unicode* is simply a monkey
patch for this soup of multiple languages we have to deal with in
programming and communication.

Unicode (*puke*) seems nothing more than a brain fart of morons. And
sadly it was created by CS majors who i assumed used logic and
deductive reasoning but i must be wrong. Why should the larger world
keep supporting such antiquated languages and character sets through
Unicode? What purpose does this serve? Are we merely trying to make
everyone happy? A sort of Utopian free-language-love-fest-kinda-
thing?

But there is a larger problem that is at the heart of Unicode itself,
and it has to do with this multi-language/multi-culture world we live
in. Even today in 2009 AD with all our technology and advancements we
still live in a dark ages of societal communication. Of the many
things that divide us such as race, color, religion, geography, blah,
the most perplexing and devastating seems to be why have we not
accepted a single global language for all to speak.

Take for instance the Chinese language with it's thousands of
characters and BS, it's more of an art than a language.  Why do we
need such complicated languages in this day and time. Many languages
have been perfected, (although not perfect) far beyond that of Chinese
language. The A-Z char set is flawless!

Some may say well how can we possibly force countries/people to speak/
code in a uniform manner? Well that's simple, you just stop supporting
their cryptic languages by dumping Unicode and returning to the
beautiful ASCII and adopting English as the universal world language.
Why English? Well because it is so widely spoken. But whatever we
choose just choose one language and stick with it, perfect it, and
maintain it.

IMO Multiple languages are barriers to communication, collaboration,
and the continuation of our future evolution as intelligent Human
beings and this language multiplicity will comprise our future until
it is reigned in and utterly destroyed. And i think most of you are
missing how important this really is to our future. And so these
problems bring me to the main subject of this thread "Unicode Sucks"

Now you may say to yourself "I am not a sociologist i am a programmer,
so why should i give a flying fig about natural languages or Unicode,
i just accept things as they are". Well yes you could just go on
accepting the status quo that is surely the easy route, but your life
would be so much easier if you crusaded for change.

BUT STOP!, before i go any further i want to respond to what i know
will be condemnation from the sociology nuts out there. Yes
multiculturalism is great, yes art is great, but if you can't see how
the ability to communicate is severely damperd by multi-languages then
you only *feel* with your heart but you apparently have no ability to
reason with your mind intelligently.

[nested thoughts]
A few months ago i was watching some tear-jerking documentary called
something like "Save the Languages" or "The dying languages" blah! In
the documentary these two bleeding-heart-ivy-leaguers were running all
over the world to document some obscure languages that were on the
verge of extinction. And at one utterly amazing point in the episode
they start crying and moaning for the loss of these languages like
their own mother had died a horrible death. I watched all this in much
horror and disbelief with jaw-dropped and i am still scared by the
thought that people actually buy into this BS! Has the world gone mad?

[back on track]
The death of a language is as natural as the death of a flower, or a
fish, or even the ever long oxidation of aluminum coke can. When a
life form dies it brings life to the next generation. With languages,
each death compiles upon the last and we are one step closer to the
unifying language that we all so disparately need. We should herald
the death of the languages like the jazz funerals of New Orleans with
much happiness and fanfare for there is no reason to be sad.

It's called evolution people! Ever heard of science? So ditch the
useless Unicode and save us all a few keystrokes and bottles of
aspirin for the persistent headaches! Simplicity is beautiful!!


From exarkun at twistedmatrix.com  Sat Aug 29 19:07:17 2009
From: exarkun at twistedmatrix.com (exarkun at twistedmatrix.com)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 23:07:17 -0000
Subject: What python can NOT do?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4a998465$0$1637$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	
Message-ID: <20090829230717.14429.2004501285.divmod.xquotient.10@localhost.localdomain>

On 10:23 pm, aahz at pythoncraft.com wrote:
>In article <4a998465$0$1637$742ec2ed at news.sonic.net>,
>John Nagle   wrote:
>>
>>    Personally, I consider Python to be a good language held back by
>>too-close ties to a naive interpreter implementation and the lack
>>of a formal standard for the language.
>
>Name one language under active development that has not been harmed by 
>a
>formal standard.  (I think C doesn't count -- there was relatively 
>little
>development of C after the standards process started.)

I think you must mean "harmed by a formal standard more than it has been 
helped", since that's clearly the interesting thing.

And it's a pretty difficult question to answer.  How do you quantify the 
harm done to a language by a standarization process?  How do you 
quantify the help?  These are extremely difficult things to measure 
objectively.

For my part, I will agree with John.  I feel like Python's big 
shortcomings stem from the areas he mentioned.  They're related to each 
other as well - the lack of a standard hampers the development of a less 
naive interpreter (either one based on CPython or another one).  It 
doesn't completely prevent such development (obviously, as CPython 
continues to undergo development, and there are a number of alternate 
runtimes for Python-like languages), but there's clearly a cost 
associated with the fact that in order to do this development, a lot of 
time has to be spent figuring out what Python *is*.  This is the kind of 
thing that a standard would help with.

Jean-Paul


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 19:12:26 2009
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 16:12:26 -0700
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
In-Reply-To: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c20908291612o4f134743h84753572dd71026@mail.gmail.com>

>
> Unicode (*puke*) seems nothing more than a brain fart of morons. And
> sadly it was created by CS majors who i assumed used logic and
> deductive reasoning but i must be wrong. Why should the larger world
> keep supporting such antiquated languages and character sets through
> Unicode? What purpose does this serve? Are we merely trying to make
> everyone happy? A sort of Utopian free-language-love-fest-kinda-
> thing?
>

One really shouldn't consider Xah Lee a role model and seek to imitate
(poorly) his rants.

The Real World isn't going away just because you think we should stick our
heads in the sand and pretend it's not there. There are billions of people
out there who are quite happy with their language, and I'd rather keep them
as a customer, thanks.

--S
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From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Sat Aug 29 19:22:03 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 20:22:03 -0300
Subject: Object's nesting scope
References: 
	<7fkqodF2llnghU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<1ea2a98f-4035-4ec6-b5a9-06b21dd6f584@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4a97c851$0$307$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<440b8caf-27f9-49d4-8d1b-94f93c75eb23@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	
	<9205fd44-90ec-4ce6-be2a-2f82dd99e13e@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

En Sat, 29 Aug 2009 04:34:48 -0300, zaur  escribi?:
> On 29 ???, 08:37, "Gabriel Genellina"  wrote:
>> En Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:25:55 -0300, zaur  escribi?:
>> > On 28 ???, 16:07, Bruno Desthuilliers > > 42.desthuilli... at websiteburo.invalid> wrote:
>> >> zaur a ?crit :
>>
>> >> > Ok. Here is a use case: object initialization.
>>
>> >> Err... Looks like you really should read the FineManual(tm) -
>> >> specifically, the parts on the __init__ method.
>>
>> > What are you doing if 1) classes Person and Address imported from
>> > foreign module 2) __init__ method is not defined as you want?
>>
>> Welcome to dynamic languages! It doesn't matter *where* the class was ?
>> defined. You may add new attributes to the instance (even methods to  
>> the class) at any time. [...4 examples...]
>
> I know about these ways of object initializing. What I said is about
> using object's dictionary as nested scope in code block. Object
> initialization is just one use case.
> So we say about different things.

Well, you asked how to proceed in certain cases and I showed several ways  
it can be done right now, without requiring a new scope. You'll have to  
think of another use case.

Attribute lookup is explicit in Python, and that's a very good thing. If  
you follow the python-ideas thread posted earlier, you'll see the kind of  
problems an implicit attribute lookup would cause. The "with" statement is  
necesary (and a good thing) in Pascal, but not in Python.

Zope2 departs from this explicitness: it has a  construct  
(similar to what you propose), and I hate it profoundly every time I have  
to edit a DTML file - I can never tell *where* an attribute comes from.  
Another related "feature" is acquisition, a stack of namespaces where  
objects "inherit" attributes from their containers. Same thing, a complete  
waste of time every time I have to track a bug.

Unless you can find a very compeling use case, I don't think this feature  
will become part of the language anytime soon...

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From gert.cuykens at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 19:29:43 2009
From: gert.cuykens at gmail.com (gert)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 16:29:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: how to edit .wsgi file extebtions with IDLE on windows
References: 
	
	<58a021ce-3058-483d-b429-6ba4855807ac@o36g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	
	<00795942-19ae-4d0e-9259-79ae00c34fc5@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <00cc1c86-0100-44d2-af4b-5a5652e934c2@e18g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 29, 11:16?pm, "Gabriel Genellina" 
wrote:
> En Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:14:14 -0300, gert  escribi?:
>
> > On Aug 29, 9:31?pm, Chris Rebert  wrote:
> >> On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 5:40 AM, gert wrote:
> >> > On Aug 29, 6:43?am, "Gabriel Genellina" 
> >> > wrote:
> >> >> En Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:31:31 -0300, gert  ?
> >> escribi?:
>
> >> >> > I can't figure out how to enable the .py shell and syntax ?
> >> highlighting
> >> >> > for .wsgi file extensions using IDLE for windows ?
>
> >> >> That's a Windows question, not a Python one. You have to associate ?
> >> the
> >> >> .wsgi extension with the Python.File file type (the one used for .py
> >> >> files):
>
> >> >> D:\USERDATA\Gabriel>assoc .py
> >> >> .py=Python.File
>
> >> >> D:\USERDATA\Gabriel>assoc .wsgi=Python.File
> >> >> .wsgi=Python.File
>
> >> > Thanks that does make it open exactly like a .py file, expect that
> >> > there is no syntax highlighting. Don't know if this is also a windows
> >> > issue or a IDLE issue ?
>
> >> That's an IDLE issue; it only highlights files with .py (and possibly
> >> .pyw) extensions.
>
> > Any chance they would make a highlight option in the menu ?
>
> Two alternatives:
>
> a) Ensure your scripts contain a shebang - no purpose on Windows, but IDLE ?
> recognizes the file as a Python file. That is, make sure the very first ?
> line is like this:
>
> #!c:\python26\python.exe
>
> (it must start with #! and contain the word "python" somewhere)
>
> b) Edit IDLE sources:
>
> - Locate the file EditorWindow.py in the idlelib package.
>
> - Add this line near the top:
> ? ?import _winreg
>
> - Modify function ispythonsource near line 580 as follows:
>
> ? ? ?def ispythonsource(self, filename):
> ? ? ? ? ?if not filename or os.path.isdir(filename):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?return True
> ? ? ? ? ?base, ext = os.path.splitext(os.path.basename(filename))
> ? ? ? ? ?if os.path.normcase(ext) in (".py", ".pyw"):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?return True
> ? ? ? ? ?### add these 4 lines ###
> ? ? ? ? ?with _winreg.OpenKey(_winreg.HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT, ext) as key:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?ftype = _winreg.QueryValueEx(key, None)[0]
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?if ftype.lower() in ("python.file","python.noconfile"):
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?return True
> ? ? ? ? ?### end ###
> ? ? ? ? ?try:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?f = open(filename)
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?line = f.readline()
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?f.close()
> ? ? ? ? ?except IOError:
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?return False
> ? ? ? ? ?return line.startswith('#!') and line.find('python') >= 0
>

Thanks. Can you make a ispythonsource menu option in the next
python3.x release? There are many examples of txt, xml or wsgi files
having python parts in them.


From cjns1989 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 20:07:19 2009
From: cjns1989 at gmail.com (Chris Jones)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 20:07:19 -0400
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c20908291612o4f134743h84753572dd71026@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	<7a9c25c20908291612o4f134743h84753572dd71026@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090830000719.GA30241@turki.gavron.org>

On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 07:12:26PM EDT, Stephen Hansen wrote:
> >
> > Unicode (*puke*) seems nothing more than a brain fart of morons. And
> > sadly it was created by CS majors who i assumed used logic and
> > deductive reasoning but i must be wrong. Why should the larger world
> > keep supporting such antiquated languages and character sets through
> > Unicode? What purpose does this serve? Are we merely trying to make
> > everyone happy? A sort of Utopian free-language-love-fest-kinda-
> > thing?
> >
> 
> One really shouldn't consider Xah Lee a role model and seek to imitate
> (poorly) his rants.

:-)

CJ


From rurpy at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 29 20:12:24 2009
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:12:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: break unichr instead of fix ord?
References: <2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4A95A4D1.9060008@v.loewis.de>
	
	<4A961EE1.9010103@v.loewis.de>
	<65e6c430-9dc4-4a90-8448-f8f587d19750@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4a979172$0$11759$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	
	<0022f1a7$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

On 08/29/2009 12:06 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
[...]
>>  The reasons for the current behavior so far:
>>
>>  1.
>>>  What you propose would break the property "unichr(i) always returns a
>>>  string of length one, if it returns anything at all".
>>
>>  Yes.  And i don't see the problem with that.  Why is that property more
>>  desirable than the non-existent property that a Unicode literal always
>>  produces one python character?
>
> What do you mean? Unicode literals don't always produce one character,
> e.g. u'abcd' is a Unicode literal with four characters.

I'm sorry, I should have been clearer.  I meant the literal
representation of a *single* unicode character.  u'\u4000'
which results in a string of length 1, vs u'\U00010040' which
results in a string of length 2.  In both case the literal
represents a single unicode code point.

> I think it's fairly self-evident that a function called uniCHR [emphasis
> added] should return a single character (technically a single code
> point).

There are two concepts of characters here, the 16-bit things
that encodes a character in a Python unicode string (in a
narrow build Python), and a character in the sense of one
of the ~2**10 unicode characters.  Python has chosen to
represent the latter (when outside the BMP) as a pair of
surrogate characters from the former.  I don't see why one
would assume that CHR would mean the python 16-bit
character concept rather than the full unicode character
concept.  In fact, rather the opposite.

> But even if you can come up with a reason for unichr() to return
> two or more characters,

I've given a number of reasons why it should return a two
character representation of a non-BMP character, one of
which is that that is how Python has chosen to represent
such characters internally.  I won't repeat the other
reasons again.

I'm not sure why you think more than two characters
would ever be possible.

> this would break code that relies on the
> documented promise that the length of the output of unichr() is always
> one.

Ah, OK.  This is the good reason I was looking for.
I did not realize (until prompted by your remark
to go back and look at the early docs) that unichr
had been documented to return a single character
since 2.0 and that wide character support was added
in 2.2.  Martin v. Loewis also implied that, I now
see, although the implication was too deep for me
to pick up.

So although it leads to a suboptimal situation, I
agree that maintaining the documented behavior was
necessary.

[...]
> I would much rather see a pair of new functions, wideord() and
> widechr() used for converting between surrogate pairs and numbers.

I guess if it were still 2001 and Python 2.2 was
coming out I would be in favor of this too. :-)


From walkraft at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 20:12:45 2009
From: walkraft at gmail.com (casebash)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:12:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Determining the metaclass
Message-ID: <6f69f304-3cf1-45c8-b86d-f57751bcc2ed@d15g2000prc.googlegroups.com>

Hi all,

I cannot determine if a class is an instance of a particular
metaclass. Here is my best attempt

>>> class tmp(type):
...     pass
...
>>> def c(metaclass=tmp):
...     pass
...
>>> isinstance(c, tmp)
False
>>> isinstance(c.__class__, tmp)
False

Can anyone explain why this fails?

Thanks very much,

Chris


From rurpy at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 29 20:16:30 2009
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:16:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: break unichr instead of fix ord?
References: <2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4A95A4D1.9060008@v.loewis.de>
	
	<4A961EE1.9010103@v.loewis.de>
	<65e6c430-9dc4-4a90-8448-f8f587d19750@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4a979172$0$11759$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	
	
Message-ID: <55a533a7-20ab-42ed-b2c7-74706d7d5451@p36g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>

On 08/29/2009 01:43 PM, Vlastimil Brom wrote:
> > 2009/8/29:
>> >>  On 08/28/2009 02:12 AM, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote:
>> >>
>> >>  So far, it seems not and that unichr/ord
>> >>  is a poster child for "purity beats practicality".
>> >>  --
>> >>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>> >>
> >
> > As Mark Tolonen pointed out earlier in this thread, in Python 3 the
> > practicality apparently beat purity in this aspect:
> >
> > Python 3.1.1 (r311:74483, Aug 17 2009, 17:02:12) [MSC v.1500 32 bit
> > (Intel)] on win32
> > Type "copyright", "credits" or "license()" for more information.
> >
>>>> >>>>  goth_urus_1 = '\U0001033f'
>>>> >>>>  list(goth_urus_1)
> > ['\ud800', '\udf3f']
>>>> >>>>  len(goth_urus_1)
> > 2
>>>> >>>>  ord(goth_urus_1)
> > 66367
>>>> >>>>  goth_urus_2 = chr(66367)
>>>> >>>>  len(goth_urus_2)
> > 2
>>>> >>>>  import unicodedata
>>>> >>>>  unicodedata.name(goth_urus_1)
> > 'GOTHIC LETTER URUS'
>>>> >>>>  goth_urus_3 = unicodedata.lookup("GOTHIC LETTER URUS")
>>>> >>>>  goth_urus_4 = "\N{GOTHIC LETTER URUS}"
>>>> >>>>  goth_urus_1 == goth_urus_2 == goth_urus_3 == goth_urus_4
> > True
>>>> >>>>

Yes, that certainly seems like much more sensible behavior.

> > As for the behaviour in python 2.x, it's probably good enough, that
> > the surrogates aren't prohibited and the eventually needed behaviour
> > can be easily added via custom functions.

Yes, I agree that given the current behavior is well documented
and further, is fixed in python 3, it can't be changed.

I would a nit though with "can be easily added via custom
functions."
I don't think that is a good criterion for rejection of functionality
from the library because it is not sufficient; their are many
functions
in the library that fail that test.  I think the criterion should
be more like a ratio: (how often needed) / (ease of writing).
[where "ease" is not just the line count but also the obviousness
to someone who is not a python expert yet.]

And I would also dispute that the generalized unichr/ord functions
are "easily" added.  When I ran into the TypeError in ord(), I
thought "surrogate pairs" were something used in sex therapy. :-)
It took a lot of reading and research before I was able to write
a generalized ord() function.


From walkraft at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 20:18:46 2009
From: walkraft at gmail.com (casebash)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:18:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Why does this group have so much spam?
Message-ID: <7294bf8b-9819-4b6d-92b2-afc1c8042a06@x6g2000prc.googlegroups.com>

So much of it could be removed even by simple keyword filtering.


From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Sat Aug 29 20:20:47 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:20:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 30, 8:46?am, r  wrote:
>
> Take for instance the Chinese language with it's thousands of
> characters and BS, it's more of an art than a language. ?Why do we
> need such complicated languages in this day and time. Many languages
> have been perfected, (although not perfect) far beyond that of Chinese
> language.

The Chinese language is more widely spoken than English, is quite
capable of expression in ASCII ("r tongzhi shi sha gua") and doesn't
have those pesky it's/its problems.

> The A-Z char set is flawless!

... for expressing the sounds of a very limited number of languages,
and English is *NOT* one of those.


From nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 20:22:26 2009
From: nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 00:22:26 GMT
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
In-Reply-To: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6Djmm.14757$ze1.10295@news-server.bigpond.net.au>

r:

> Unicode (*puke*) seems nothing more than a brain fart of morons. And
> sadly it was created by CS majors who i assumed used logic and
> deductive reasoning but i must be wrong. Why should the larger world
> keep supporting such antiquated languages and character sets through
> Unicode? What purpose does this serve? Are we merely trying to make
> everyone happy? A sort of Utopian free-language-love-fest-kinda-
> thing?

   Wow, I like this world you live in: all that altruism! Unicode was
developed by corporations from the US left coast in order to sell their
products in foreign markets at minimal cost.

   Neil


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 20:31:19 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:31:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Determining the metaclass
References: <6f69f304-3cf1-45c8-b86d-f57751bcc2ed@d15g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3e1b7e0b-e44c-4b34-9866-33aa7b33a3af@v37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 29, 5:12?pm, casebash  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I cannot determine if a class is an instance of a particular
> metaclass. Here is my best attempt
>
> >>> class tmp(type):
>
> ... ? ? pass
> ...>>> def c(metaclass=tmp):
>
> ... ? ? pass
> ...>>> isinstance(c, tmp)
> False
> >>> isinstance(c.__class__, tmp)
>
> False
>
> Can anyone explain why this fails?

You're gonna kick yourself.

It's because you used "def" and not "class" to define c.  If you'd
used "class" then then first test would have worked.


Carl Banks





From sccolbert at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 20:39:31 2009
From: sccolbert at gmail.com (Chris Colbert)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 20:39:31 -0400
Subject: Permanently adding to the Python path in Ubuntu
Message-ID: <7f014ea60908291739r70f724fbw626c32265198b5ae@mail.gmail.com>

I'm having an issue with sys.path on Ubuntu. I want some of my home
built packages to overshadow the system packages. Namely, I have built
numpy 1.3.0 from source with atlas support, and I need it to
overshadow the system numpy 1.2.1 which I had to drag along as a
dependency for other stuff. I have numpy 1.3.0 installed into
/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/. The issue is that this
directory is added to the path after the
/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/ is added, so python doesnt see my
version of numpy.

I have been combating this with a line in my .bashrc file:

export PYTHONPATH=/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages

So when I start python from the shell, everything works fine.

Problems show up when python is not executed from the shell, and thus
the path variable is never exported. This can occur when I have
launcher in the gnome panel or i'm executing from within wing-ide.

Is there a way to fix this so that the local dist-packages is added to
sys.path before the system directory ALWAYS? I can do this by editing
site.py but I think it's kind of bad form to do it this way. I feel
there has to be a way to do this without root privileges.

Any ideas?

Cheers,

Chris


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 20:40:42 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:40:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <1c10c974-beb6-4e71-90dd-4f23aa6c70a9@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 29, 7:20?pm, John Machin  wrote:
> On Aug 30, 8:46?am, r  wrote:
> The Chinese language is more widely spoken than English, is quite
> capable of expression in ASCII ("r tongzhi shi sha gua") and doesn't
> have those pesky it's/its problems.

Oh yes of course it is the most widely spoken amongst Chinese people
since one in every five people on this earth are Chinese. What i meant
to say was that English language is more widespread outside of
"normal" English speaking countries -- of course as a result of
colonialism, and arguably, imperialism. ;)


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 21:03:12 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 18:03:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Why does this group have so much spam?
References: <7294bf8b-9819-4b6d-92b2-afc1c8042a06@x6g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 29, 7:18?pm, casebash  wrote:
> So much of it could be removed even by simple keyword filtering.

A more interesting question is what morons are responding to this spam
and enticing the spammers to proliferate their garbage? Do people
actually see a spam like "Phallus enlargement pills" and say to
themself "Alright!, just what i been looking for!". I guess i just
can't understand foolishness...

Yes i agree, far to much spam is getting through.


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 21:30:34 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 18:30:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	<6Djmm.14757$ze1.10295@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 29, 7:22?pm, Neil Hodgson 
wrote:

> ? ?Wow, I like this world you live in: all that altruism!

Well if i don't who will? *shrugs*

> Unicode was
> developed by corporations from the US left coast in order to sell their
> products in foreign markets at minimal cost.

So why the heck are we supporting such capitalistic implementations as
Unicode. Sure we must support a winders installer but Unicode, dump
it! We don't support a Python group in Chinese or French, so why this?
Makes no sense to me really. Let M$ deal with it.


From benjamin at python.org  Sat Aug 29 21:38:50 2009
From: benjamin at python.org (Benjamin Peterson)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 01:38:50 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	<6Djmm.14757$ze1.10295@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: 

Neil Hodgson  gmail.com> writes:

\\
> 
> Unicode was
> developed by corporations from the US left coast in order to sell their
> products in foreign markets at minimal cost.

Like Sanskrit or Snowman language?





From danb_83 at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 29 21:40:36 2009
From: danb_83 at yahoo.com (AggieDan04)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 18:40:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: What python can NOT do?
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 28, 7:05?pm, Tim Chase  wrote:
> qwe rty wrote:
> > i know that an interpreted language like python can't be used to make
> > an operating system or system drivers.
>
> As long as you are willing to write the OS hooks in C, you can
> write the userspace device drivers in Python:

Writing your OS hooks in C isn't a problem because you could write a C
compiler in Python ;-)



From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Sat Aug 29 22:25:45 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 04:25:45 +0200
Subject: copy construtor question
In-Reply-To: <613204.64791.qm@web53105.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <613204.64791.qm@web53105.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: 

28-08-2009 o 20:38:30 xiaosong xia  wrote:

> I am trying to define a class with copy constructor as following:
> ?
> class test:
> ???? def __init__(self, s=None):
> ????????? self=s
> ?
> x=[1,2]
> ?
> y=test(x)
> ?
> print y.__dict__
> ?
> it gives
> {}
> ?
> The above code doesn't work.

And cannot, as Chris has already written. But it is possible to
customize construction of objects of your class -- using __new__():
[see: http://docs.python.org/reference/datamodel.html#object.__new__ ]

     import copy
     # in Python 2.x you must explicitly inherit from 'object' type
     class Test(object):
         "Not tested"
         def __new__(cls, s, way=None):
             if s is None:
                 # a new object of 'Test' class
                 return super(currentclass, cls).__new__(cls, *args)
             else:
                 if way == 'alias':
                     return s
                 elif way == 'shallow':
                     return copy.copy(s)
                 elif way == 'deep':
                     return copy.deepcopy(s)
                 else:
                     raise ValueError("'way' must be 'alias', "
                                      "'shallow' or 'deepcopy'")

...but in such cases as copying existing objects it is usualy better
(though less romantic :-)) to use an ordinary function (e.g. simply
copy.copy() or copy.deepcopy(), as Gabriel has pointed).

Regards,
*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sat Aug 29 22:36:49 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 30 Aug 2009 02:36:49 GMT
Subject: (Simple?) Unicode Question
References: <332972a20908270939m57be4e51tc5785b880ec642b3@mail.gmail.com>
	
	
	<002269cb$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <0023693f$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 20:09:12 +0100, Nobody wrote:

> On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 08:26:54 +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 
>> Python only needs to know when you convert the text to or from bytes. I
>> can do this:
>> 
>>>>> s = "hello"
>>>>> t = "world"
>>>>> print(' '.join([s, t]))
>> hello world
>> 
>> and not need to care anything about encodings.
>> 
>> So long as your terminal has a sensible encoding, and you have a good
>> quality font, you should be able to print any string you can create.
> 
> UTF-8 isn't a particularly sensible encoding for terminals.

Did I mention UTF-8?

Out of curiosity, why do you say that UTF-8 isn't sensible for terminals?


> And "Unicode font" is an oxymoron. You can merge a whole bunch of fonts
> together and stuff them into a TTF file; that doesn't make them "a
> font", though.

I never mentioned "Unicode font" either. In any case, there's no reason 
why a skillful designer can't make a single font which covers the entire 
Unicode range in a consistent style.


>>>> I may be wrong, but I believe that's part of the idea between
>>>> separation of string and bytes types in Python 3.x. I believe, if you
>>>> are using Python 3.x, you don't need the character encoding mumbo
>>>> jumbo at all ;-)
>>> 
>>> Nothing has changed in that regard. You still need to decode and
>>> encode text and for that you have to know the encoding.
>> 
>> You only need to worry about encoding when you convert from bytes to
>> text, and visa versa. Admittedly, the most common time you need to do
>> that is when reading input from files, but if all your text strings are
>> generated by Python, and not output anywhere, you shouldn't need to
>> care about encodings.
> 
> Why would you generate text strings and not output them anywhere?

Who knows? It doesn't matter -- the point is that you can if you want to. 
You only need to worry about encodings at input and output, therefore 
logically if you don't do I/O you can process strings all day long and 
never worry about encodings at all.


> The main advantage of using Unicode internally is that you can associate
> encodings with the specific points where data needs to be converted
> to/from bytes, rather than having to carry the encoding details around
> the program.

Surely the main advantage of Unicode is that it gives you a full and 
consistent range of characters not limited to the 128 characters provided 
by ASCII?



-- 
Steven


From nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 23:07:17 2009
From: nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 03:07:17 GMT
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
In-Reply-To: 
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>	<6Djmm.14757$ze1.10295@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	
Message-ID: 

Benjamin Peterson:

> Like Sanskrit or Snowman language?

   Sanskrit is mostly written in Devanagari these days which is also
useful for selling things to people who speak Hindi and other Indian
languages.

   Not sure if you are referring to the ? snowman character or Arctic
region languages like Canadian Aboriginal syllabic writing like ?????
which were added to Unicode 8 years after the initial version. I'd guess
that was added from political rather than marketing motives. ? was
required since it was present in Japanese character sets.

   Neil


From cs at zip.com.au  Sat Aug 29 23:24:22 2009
From: cs at zip.com.au (Cameron Simpson)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 13:24:22 +1000
Subject: Sqlite format string
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <20090830032422.GA23090@cskk.homeip.net>

On 29Aug2009 17:27, Sergio Charpinel Jr.  wrote:
| Hi,
| I have this statement cursor.execute("SELECT * from session_attribute WHERE
| sid=%s", ( user ))
| and I'm receiving this error :
| 
| TypeError: not all arguments converted during string formatting
| 
| What is wrong ?

This:

  ( user )

is not a tuple containing the element user. It's just user.

This:

  ( user, )

is what you want.
-- 
Cameron Simpson  DoD#743
http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/

[Alain] had been looking at his dashboard, and had not seen me, so I
ran into him. - Jean Alesi on his qualifying prang at Imola '93


From half.italian at gmail.com  Sat Aug 29 23:51:16 2009
From: half.italian at gmail.com (Sean DiZazzo)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 20:51:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Permanently adding to the Python path in Ubuntu
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 29, 5:39?pm, Chris Colbert  wrote:
> I'm having an issue with sys.path on Ubuntu. I want some of my home
> built packages to overshadow the system packages. Namely, I have built
> numpy 1.3.0 from source with atlas support, and I need it to
> overshadow the system numpy 1.2.1 which I had to drag along as a
> dependency for other stuff. I have numpy 1.3.0 installed into
> /usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/. The issue is that this
> directory is added to the path after the
> /usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/ is added, so python doesnt see my
> version of numpy.
>
> I have been combating this with a line in my .bashrc file:
>
> export PYTHONPATH=/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages
>
> So when I start python from the shell, everything works fine.
>
> Problems show up when python is not executed from the shell, and thus
> the path variable is never exported. This can occur when I have
> launcher in the gnome panel or i'm executing from within wing-ide.
>
> Is there a way to fix this so that the local dist-packages is added to
> sys.path before the system directory ALWAYS? I can do this by editing
> site.py but I think it's kind of bad form to do it this way. I feel
> there has to be a way to do this without root privileges.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Chris

I think you can modify sys.path inside your application.

Maybe this will work (at the top of your script):


import sys
sys.path[0] = "/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages"

import numpy


PS.  Say hi to Steven for me!

~Sean


From b1540457 at tyldd.com  Sun Aug 30 00:05:24 2009
From: b1540457 at tyldd.com (Anny Mous)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 14:05:24 +1000
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

r wrote:

> Of the many
> things that divide us such as race, color, religion, geography, blah,
> the most perplexing and devastating seems to be why have we not
> accepted a single global language for all to speak.

I agree 1000% and obviously we should make Klingon that global language. Or
possibly the Black Tongue of the Mordor Orcs, which is much better for
cursing. I haven't decided yet.


> Take for instance the Chinese language with it's thousands of
> characters and BS, it's more of an art than a language.  Why do we
> need such complicated languages in this day and time. Many languages
> have been perfected, (although not perfect) far beyond that of Chinese
> language. The A-Z char set is flawless!

How do we distinguish resume from r?sum? without accents?

Even when we succeed in banning all languages that can't be written using
A-Z, what do we do about the vast number of legacy documents? How do we
write about obsolete English letters like ? and ? without Unicode?

How do we write mathematical and scientific documents without characters
like ? ? ? ? and ? ?

What do we use to replace typographic symbols and dingbats like ? without
Unicode?


> Some may say well how can we possibly force countries/people to speak/
> code in a uniform manner? Well that's simple, you just stop supporting
> their cryptic languages by dumping Unicode and returning to the
> beautiful ASCII and adopting English as the universal world language.
> Why English? Well because it is so widely spoken.

World population: 6.7 billion

Number of native Mandarin speakers: 873 million
Number of native Hindi speakers: 370 million
Number of native Spanish speakers: 350 million
Number of native English speakers: 340 million

Total number of Mandarin speakers: 1051 million
Total number of English speakers: 510 million

http://www.vistawide.com/languages/top_30_languages.htm

Whichever way you look at it, we should all convert to Mandarin, not
English. Looks like we still need Unicode.

Besides, given that the US would be bankrupt if not for Chinese loans, do
you really want to upset them by suggesting their language sucks?


> But whatever we 
> choose just choose one language and stick with it, perfect it, and
> maintain it.

Just ask the Academie Francaise how well that works!

Why stop with A-Z? We can improve on 26 letters. In the first year we should
replace the soft 'c' with 's'. Any sivilized language will sertainly be
better off with this change. The hard 'c' will be dropped in favour of 'k',
which will klear up much konfusion and allow one key less on keyboards.

In the sekond year I expect publik enthusiasm to grow, allowing us to
replace the troublesome 'ph' with 'f', which will make words
like 'fotograf' twenty persent shorter.

In the third year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to
permit more komplikated changes. We will enkourage the removal of double
leters which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling. Also, al wil
agre that the horible mes of the silent 'e' is disgrasful.

By the fourth yer, peopl wil be reseptiv to replasing 'th' with 'z' and 'w'
with 'v'. Zis vil be a grat improvment.

During ze fifz yer, ze unesesary 'o' kan be dropd from vords kontaining 'ou'
and similar changes vud of kors be aplid to ozer kombinations of leters.
After zis fifz yer, ve vil hav a reli sensibl riten styl. Zer vil be no mor
trubls or difikultis and everivun vil find it ezi to understand ech ozer.
ZE DREM VIL FINALI COM TRU!


> IMO Multiple languages are barriers to communication, collaboration,
> and the continuation of our future evolution as intelligent Human
> beings and this language multiplicity will comprise our future until
> it is reigned in and utterly destroyed. 

Yes, because language differences have utterly destroyed us so many times in
the past!

Have you thought about the difference between China, with one culture and
one spoken language for thousands of years, and Europe, with dozens of
competing cultures, competing governments, and alternate languages for just
as long? If multiple languages are so harmful, why was it the British,
French, Japanese, Russians, Germans, Italians, Austrians, Hungarians and
Americans who were occupying China during the Opium Wars and the Boxer
Rebellion, instead of the other way around?

Strength comes from diversity, not monoculture.





From kennyken747 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 00:14:59 2009
From: kennyken747 at gmail.com (kennyken747)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 21:14:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: why python got less developers ?
References: 
	
Message-ID: <604b21ef-a3ad-4da8-92f5-c1d22345b4d7@p15g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 29, 6:16?am, paul  wrote:
> Deep_Feelings schrieb:> python got relatively fewer numbers of developers than other high
> > level languages like .NET , java .. etc ?why ?
>
> Besides the marketing argument, python never had a "hype".
>
> Both PHP and ruby(Rails to be precise) got widespread because they could
> ? at one point do "one" thing better than the competition. From there
> on, they had more ressources (developer time) and grew fast and beyond
> the original problem domain. Now you can write GUI apps in PHP, great!
>
> cheers
> ? Paul

You guys can say anything you'd like it to be in this thread, but the
actual reason comes down to
1. No marketing. Seriously, if Microsoft was pushing Python it would
obviously be a lot bigger in terms of developers.
2. No certification. Millions go to college to get degrees in computer
related study. Do the math.

Also, really guys? This crap about speed? People have been saying this
for years, and yet they still don't realize that there are plenty
solutions to take care of that one problem.

Just be happy that you've stumbled upon Python, just because it's not
the most widespread language in the world certainly doesn't mean it's
not a worthy language. Quite the opposite.


From cjns1989 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 00:22:00 2009
From: cjns1989 at gmail.com (Chris Jones)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 00:22:00 -0400
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
In-Reply-To: 
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	<6Djmm.14757$ze1.10295@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	
	
Message-ID: <20090830042200.GC30241@turki.gavron.org>

On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 11:07:17PM EDT, Neil Hodgson wrote:
> Benjamin Peterson:

> > Like Sanskrit or Snowman language?

> Sanskrit is mostly written in Devanagari these days which is also
> useful for selling things to people who speak Hindi and other Indian
> languages.

Is the implication that the principal usefulness of such languages as
Hindi and "other Indian languages" is us selling "things" to them..? I
am not from these climes but all the same, I do find you tone of voice
rather offensive, considering that you are referring to a culture that's
about 3000 years older and 3000 richer than ours and certainly deserves
our respect.

Maybe you didn't notice, but our plants shut down many years ago.. They
are selling _us_ their wares.

> Not sure if you are referring to the snowman character or Arctic
> region languages like Canadian Aboriginal syllabic writing like ?????
> which were added to Unicode 8 years after the initial version. I'd
> guess that was added from political rather than marketing motives. ?
> was required since it was present in Japanese character sets.

Oh.. so.. now Unicode is not only about marketing.. there is also a
political "aspect"..  polytonic Greek, Runic, Shavian, Glagolitic,
Carian, Phoenician, Lydian, Cuneiform, not to mention Mathematical
symbols, Braille, Domino Tiles, the IPA..?  What was I thinking..?

Nothing personal, I assure you.. maybe I misunderstood what you were
saying.

In any event, you shouldn't feed the troll, even if he's teething.

CJ


From cmpython at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 00:45:19 2009
From: cmpython at gmail.com (Che M)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 21:45:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: IDE for python similar to visual basic
References: <2a17396c-4d6d-4cb0-a314-208054a2f774@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3d91c968-bd36-45b9-8ae0-3af8e855605e@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 28, 6:19?pm, qwe rty  wrote:
> i have been searching for am IDE for python that is similar to Visual
> Basic but had no luck.shall you help me please?

Boa Constructor.  IDE/visual GUI-builder/sizer support, lots of
other goodies.  Not actively maintained, though, and some issues
on Linux, in my experience.  But I like it a lot.


From cmpython at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 00:47:10 2009
From: cmpython at gmail.com (Che M)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 21:47:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: What python can NOT do?
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <62177729-0079-4cfc-bdf6-e31ebd3e883b@z28g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 28, 6:37?pm, qwe rty  wrote:
> i know that an interpreted language like python can't be used to make
> an operating system or system drivers.
>
> what else can NOT be done in python? what are the limitations of the
> language?

Now that you have some good answers, may I ask what what your reason
was for posting this question?



From cmpython at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 00:51:13 2009
From: cmpython at gmail.com (Che M)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 21:51:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python Noob - gui module, book, annoying questions
References: <92cc4ca1-0e0d-4355-8d9a-b4928390e619@q35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 29, 3:20?am, Pherdnut  wrote:
> I want to write cross-platform stuff. Any opinions on the best GUI
> module for that?
>
> I like a good juicy, but concise book for reading on my commute
> downtown. I was thinking of checking Python in a Nutshell. Good? Bad?
> Better?
>
> Is 3.0+ more object based? I'm actually an FED and one of the things I
> love about JS is the consistency of the language. I love Python 2.6 so
> far so I'm not knocking it. But I'm not really taking advantage of the
> non-core libraries as much right now anyway since I'm learning it.
>
> What do you guys like in Reg Ex books/sites? I'd like to become more
> fluent in some of the less commonly used stuff.

Also wxPython.  It's cross platform, but it does require occasional
platform-dependent tweaks, since it mostly uses native controls and
sometimes the native controls' requirements are different.

You might want to consider that it's going to be some time before the
3rd party libraries catch up to Python 3.  I'd recommend 2.5 or 2.6
for learning now if you plan on using them.


From torriem at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 00:52:54 2009
From: torriem at gmail.com (Michael Torrie)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 22:52:54 -0600
Subject: What python can NOT do?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	<4A9870D4.8070800@tim.thechases.com>	
	
	
	
Message-ID: <4A9A05A6.4080803@gmail.com>

qwe rty wrote:
> On Aug 29, 5:11 am, Nobody  wrote:
>> On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:26:06 -0700, qwe rty wrote:
>>> if you don't know the answer please don't reply
>> If you don't understand the question, don't post it in the first place.
> 
> don't be so angry ,not good for your health

You forgot your smiley emoticon!  Since everyone else is posting in a
light-hearted manner (not "angry" as you say), I choose to read your
post in this light as well.

What Nobody was really trying to say, is ask your question in a better
way and you'll get a better answer.



From dieter at handshake.de  Sun Aug 30 00:54:21 2009
From: dieter at handshake.de (Dieter Maurer)
Date: 30 Aug 2009 06:54:21 +0200
Subject: break unichr instead of fix ord?
In-Reply-To: <4a979172$0$11759$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
References: <2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4A95A4D1.9060008@v.loewis.de>
	
	<4A961EE1.9010103@v.loewis.de>
	<65e6c430-9dc4-4a90-8448-f8f587d19750@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4a979172$0$11759$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
Message-ID: 

"Martin v. L?wis"  writes on Fri, 28 Aug 2009 10:12:34 +0200:
> > The PEP says:
> >      * unichr(i) for 0 <= i < 2**16 (0x10000) always returns a
> >        length-one string.
> > 
> >      * unichr(i) for 2**16 <= i <= TOPCHAR will return a
> >        length-one string on wide Python builds. On narrow
> >        builds it will raise ValueError.
> > and
> >      * ord() is always the inverse of unichr()
> > 
> > which of course we know; that is the current behavior.  But
> > there is no reason given for that behavior.
> 
> Sure there is, right above the list:
> 
> "Most things will behave identically in the wide and narrow worlds."
> 
> That's the reason: scripts should work the same as much as possible
> in wide and narrow builds.
> 
> What you propose would break the property "unichr(i) always returns
> a string of length one, if it returns anything at all".

But getting a "ValueError" in some builds (and not in others)
is rather worse than getting unicode strings of different length....

> >    1) Should surrogate pairs be disallowed on narrow builds?
> > That appears to have been answered in the negative and is
> > not relevant to my question.
> 
> It is, as it does lead to inconsistencies between wide and narrow
> builds. OTOH, it also allows the same source code to work on both
> versions, so it also preserves the uniformity in a different way.

Do you not have the inconsistencies in any case?
... "ValueError" in some builds and not in others ...



From bcb at undisclosedlocation.net  Sun Aug 30 01:00:54 2009
From: bcb at undisclosedlocation.net (Bruce C. Baker)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 00:00:54 -0500
Subject: Why does this group have so much spam?
References: <7294bf8b-9819-4b6d-92b2-afc1c8042a06@x6g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7Hnmm.176524$zq1.39243@newsfe22.iad>


"casebash"  wrote in message 
news:7294bf8b-9819-4b6d-92b2-afc1c8042a06 at x6g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
> So much of it could be removed even by simple keyword filtering.

Assuming this is a serious question:

1. comp.lang.python has relatively little spam, compared to others.

2. The spam posters aren't looking for responses within the individual NGs, 
they're just hoping you'll click through to the link within the post. It's a 
version of "fire and forget"

3. Simple keyword filtering /by whom/? There is no central NG governing 
authority.

The best response is to ignore[1] the spam posts; they'll eventually expire 
and disappear from your newsreader.

[1] Although if they're egregiously stupid, you may find yourself mocking 
the OP. Realize that as witty and urbane as your response may be, the OP 
ain't listening. :-) 




From nagle at animats.com  Sun Aug 30 01:14:55 2009
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 22:14:55 -0700
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
In-Reply-To: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a9a0988$0$1669$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

r wrote:
> I was reading the thread here...
> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/db90a9629b92aab0/b0385050b4c6c84e?hl=en&lnk=raot#b0385050b4c6c84e
> 
> and it raised some fundamental philophosical questions 

    Rant ignored.

    Actually, Python 3.x seems finally to have character sets right.
There's "bytes", for uninterpreted binary data, Unicode, and
proper ASCII, 0..127.  Within Python, we finally got rid of
"upper code pages".

    (I wish the HTML standards people would do the same.  HTML 5
should have been ASCII only (with the "&" escapes if desired)
or Unicode.  No "Latin-1", no upper code pages, no JIS, etc.)

> 
> [nested thoughts]
> A few months ago i was watching some tear-jerking documentary called
> something like "Save the Languages" or "The dying languages" blah! 

    It may be a bit much that Unicode supports Cretan Linear B.

					John Nagle


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Aug 30 01:26:55 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 01:26:55 -0400
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
In-Reply-To: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

r wrote:

> natural languages and Unicode. Which IMO * Unicode* is simply a monkey
> patch for this soup of multiple languages we have to deal with in
> programming and communication.

A somewhat fair charactierization.

[snip]

> everyone happy? A sort of Utopian free-language-love-fest-kinda-
> thing?

Not utopian, but pragmatically political. Before unicode, and still 
today, we had and have multiple codes. Multiple ascii extenstions for 
European languages and even multiple codes just for Japanese. To get 
people in the major computing countries, including Japan, to agree to 
eventually replace their national codes with one worldwide code, some 
kludgy compromises were made.

> language. The A-Z char set is flawless!

Hardly. There are too few characters. A basic set should have at least 
50. The international phonetic alphabet (IPA) has about 150. Here is a 
true Utopian proposal for you (from a non-CS major ;-): develop an 
extended IPA 256-character set with just a few control chars (rather 
than 32) and punctuation and other markers. Then develop dictionaries to 
translate texts in every languange and char set into and back out of 
this universal character set.

Fat chance of approval, even if techical issues were resolved.

> Some may say well how can we possibly force countries/people to speak/
> code in a uniform manner? Well that's simple, you just stop supporting
> their cryptic languages by dumping Unicode and returning to the
> beautiful ASCII

But most everyone outside the US was not using ascii precisely because 
it did not support their language.

Get over the imperfections of unicode. It improves on the prior status quo.

Terry Jan Reedy



From steve at lonetwin.net  Sun Aug 30 01:28:50 2009
From: steve at lonetwin.net (steve)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 10:58:50 +0530
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
In-Reply-To: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A9A0E12.9040308@lonetwin.net>

On 08/30/2009 04:16 AM, r wrote:
> I was reading the thread here...
> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/db90a9629b92aab0/b0385050b4c6c84e?hl=en&lnk=raot#b0385050b4c6c84e
> ...
> ...
> It's called evolution people! Ever heard of science? So ditch the
> useless Unicode and save us all a few keystrokes and bottles of
> aspirin for the persistent headaches! Simplicity is beautiful!!

You are right ! In the same vein, we should all also standardize on using the 
Java language for programming, after all /everybody/ writes code in Java.

cheers,
- steve

-- 
random non tech spiel: http://lonetwin.blogspot.com/
tech randomness: http://lonehacks.blogspot.com/
what i'm stumbling into: http://lonetwin.stumbleupon.com/


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Aug 30 01:37:37 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 01:37:37 -0400
Subject: What python can NOT do?
In-Reply-To: <20090829230717.14429.2004501285.divmod.xquotient.10@localhost.localdomain>
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	<4a998465$0$1637$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>	
	<20090829230717.14429.2004501285.divmod.xquotient.10@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: 

exarkun at twistedmatrix.com wrote:

> For my part, I will agree with John.  I feel like Python's big 
> shortcomings stem from the areas he mentioned.  They're related to each 
> other as well - the lack of a standard hampers the development of a less 
> naive interpreter (either one based on CPython or another one).

The reference manual is *intended* to define the 'standard' Python 
language.

 > It
> doesn't completely prevent such development (obviously, as CPython 
> continues to undergo development, and there are a number of alternate 
> runtimes for Python-like languages), but there's clearly a cost 
> associated with the fact that in order to do this development, a lot of 
> time has to be spent figuring out what Python *is*.  This is the kind of 
> thing that a standard would help with.

Such developers occasionally raise questions about ambiguities in the 
ref manual on the pydev list. This is part of the editing process.

There is an effort underway to separate the CPython test suite into two 
parts: test of standard Python behavior, which all implementations 
should pass, and tests of the CPython implementation, which other 
implementations need not pass.  It will move as fast as volunteer effort 
moves it.

tjr



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Aug 30 01:46:12 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 30 Aug 2009 05:46:12 GMT
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	<6Djmm.14757$ze1.10295@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	
	
Message-ID: <002395a3$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 03:07:17 +0000, Neil Hodgson wrote:

>    Not sure if you are referring to the ? snowman character or Arctic
> region languages like Canadian Aboriginal syllabic writing like ?????
> which were added to Unicode 8 years after the initial version. I'd guess
> that was added from political rather than marketing motives. ? was
> required since it was present in Japanese character sets.


If I recall correctly, the snowman was specifically added at the request 
of Japanese television producers, because it is a standard glyph used for 
representing snow when showing the weather on TV.

Unicode's stated aim is to have a single universal standard for all 
characters needed for communication. From the Unicode Consortium:

[quote]
What is Unicode?
Unicode provides a unique number for every character, no matter what the 
platform, no matter what the program, no matter what the language.

...
Even for a single language like English no single encoding was adequate 
for all the letters, punctuation, and technical symbols in common use.

These encoding systems also conflict with one another. That is, two 
encodings can use the same number for two different characters, or use 
different numbers for the same character. Any given computer (especially 
servers) needs to support many different encodings; yet whenever data is 
passed between different encodings or platforms, that data always runs 
the risk of corruption.

Unicode is changing all that!

Unicode provides a unique number for every character, no matter what the 
platform, no matter what the program, no matter what the language.
[end quote]

And from the FAQs:

[quote]
Unicode covers all the characters for all the writing systems of the 
world, modern and ancient. It also includes technical symbols, 
punctuations, and many other characters used in writing text.
[end quote]


It's not just about supporting languages used by foreigners too stupid to 
speak English (sarcasm!). It's about supporting business users who want a 
standard way of referring to dingbats and pictographs, historians who 
need to deal with ancient writings and obsolete characters, scientists 
and mathematicians who want to use mathematical symbols, editors and book 
publishers who want to use their own typographic symbols, including 
Braille, musical symbols, and even TV producers who want to include 
snowmen on their weather charts.

The Unicode system replaces dozens of incompatible, clashing systems with 
a single universal, extensible system. Why would anyone want to go back 
to the Bad Old Days where you couldn't transfer data from one OS to 
another, or even from one application to another, without quote marks 
turning into mathematical symbols or boxes?



-- 
Steven


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Aug 30 01:52:48 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 30 Aug 2009 05:52:48 GMT
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	<4a9a0988$0$1669$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <0023972f$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 22:14:55 -0700, John Nagle wrote:

> It may be a bit much that Unicode supports Cretan Linear B.

Thousands of historians who need to discuss Linear B would disagree.

Well, hundreds.


There are tens of thousands of characters available. If there's room for 
chess pieces, dingbats with drop shadows and numbers inside circles, 
there's room for actual characters from real (if extinct) languages.


-- 
Steven


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sun Aug 30 01:58:39 2009
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 07:58:39 +0200
Subject: break unichr instead of fix ord?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4A95A4D1.9060008@v.loewis.de>
	
	<4A961EE1.9010103@v.loewis.de>
	<65e6c430-9dc4-4a90-8448-f8f587d19750@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4a979172$0$11759$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	
Message-ID: <4A9A150F.6010503@v.loewis.de>

> To reiterate, I am not advocating for any change.  I
> simply want to understand if there is a good reason
> for limiting the use of unchr/ord on narrow builds to
> a subset of the unicode characters that Python otherwise
> supports.  So far, it seems not and that unichr/ord
> is a poster child for "purity beats practicality".

I think that's actually the case. I went back to the discussions,
and found that early 2.2 alpha releases did return two-byte
strings from unichr, and that this was changed because Marc-Andre
Lemburg insisted. Here are a few relevant messages from the
archives (search for unichr)

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2001-June/015649.html
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2001-July/015662.html
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2001-July/016110.html
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2001-July/016153.html
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2001-July/016155.html
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2001-July/016186.html

Eventually, in r28142, MAL changed it to give it its current
state.

Regards,
Martin


From nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 02:17:14 2009
From: nyamatongwe+thunder at gmail.com (Neil Hodgson)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 06:17:14 GMT
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
In-Reply-To: 
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>	<6Djmm.14757$ze1.10295@news-server.bigpond.net.au>		
	
Message-ID: 

Chris Jones:

> Is the implication that the principal usefulness of such languages as
> Hindi and "other Indian languages" is us selling "things" to them..? 

   Unicode was developed by a group of US corporations: Xerox, Apple,
Sun, Microsoft, ... The main motivation was to avoid dealing with
multiple character set encodings since this was difficult, time
consuming and expensive.

> I
> am not from these climes but all the same, I do find you tone of voice
> rather offensive, considering that you are referring to a culture that's
> about 3000 years older and 3000 richer than ours and certainly deserves
> our respect.

   Eh? Was Unicode developed in India? China? What precisely is
direspectful here? Is there a significant population that regards
Unicode as their 'holy patrimony' that will suffer distress due to my
post?

> Maybe you didn't notice, but our plants shut down many years ago.. They
> are selling _us_ their wares.

   Maybe your plants shut down but some of the plants I have worked at
(such as the steelworks at Port Kembla) are still successfully exporting
to Asia.

   Neil


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Aug 30 02:27:32 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 30 Aug 2009 06:27:32 GMT
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	<6Djmm.14757$ze1.10295@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	
	
	
Message-ID: <00239f52$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 00:22:00 -0400, Chris Jones wrote:

> On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 11:07:17PM EDT, Neil Hodgson wrote:
>> Benjamin Peterson:
> 
>> > Like Sanskrit or Snowman language?
> 
>> Sanskrit is mostly written in Devanagari these days which is also
>> useful for selling things to people who speak Hindi and other Indian
>> languages.
> 
> Is the implication that the principal usefulness of such languages as
> Hindi and "other Indian languages" is us selling "things" to them..? I
> am not from these climes but all the same, I do find you tone of voice
> rather offensive, 

I think Neil's point is that Unicode has succeeded in the wider world, 
outside of academic circles, because of the commercial need to 
communicate between cultures using different character sets. I suppose he 
could have worded it better, but fundamentally he's right: without the 
commercial need to trade across the world (information as well as 
physical goods) I doubt Unicode would be anything more than an 
interesting curiosity of use only to a few academics and linguists.


> considering that you are referring to a culture that's
> about 3000 years older and 3000 richer than ours and certainly deserves
> our respect.

Older, certainly, but richer? There's a reason that Indians come to the 
West rather than Westerners going to India. As Terry Pratchet has 
written, age is not linked to wisdom -- just because somebody is old, 
doesn't mean they're wise, perhaps they've just been stupid for a very 
long time. The same goes for cultures: old doesn't mean better.

Indian culture has been responsible for many wonderful things over the 
millennia, but the cast system is not one of them, and any culture which 
glorified sati (suttee) as an act of piety is not one we should look up 
to. Sati was probably rare even at the height of it's popularity, and 
vanishingly rare now, and arguably could even be defended as the right of 
an adult to end their own life when they see fit, but dowry-burning is 
outright murder and is sadly very common across the Indian sub-continent: 
some estimates suggest that in the mid-1990s there were nearly 6000 such 
murders a year in India.

If we are to be truly non-racist, we must recognise that the West does 
not have a monopoly on wickedness, ignorance, spite and sheer awfulness.  

In any case, I'm not sure we should be talking about Indian culture in 
the singular -- India is about as large as Western Europe, significantly 
more varied, and the culture has changed over time. The India which 
treated the Karma Sutra as a holy book is hardly the same India where 
people literally rioted in the street because Richard Gere gave the 
actress Shilpa Shetty a couple of rather theatrical and silly kisses on 
the cheek.



-- 
Steven


From szport at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 03:15:41 2009
From: szport at gmail.com (zaur)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 00:15:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Object's nesting scope
References: 
	<7fkqodF2llnghU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<1ea2a98f-4035-4ec6-b5a9-06b21dd6f584@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4a97c851$0$307$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<440b8caf-27f9-49d4-8d1b-94f93c75eb23@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	
	<9205fd44-90ec-4ce6-be2a-2f82dd99e13e@r27g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <109d0956-0675-4c12-94c4-1cd54d6016b3@33g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>

On 30 ???, 03:22, "Gabriel Genellina"  wrote:
> En Sat, 29 Aug 2009 04:34:48 -0300, zaur  escribi?:
>
>
>
> > On 29 ???, 08:37, "Gabriel Genellina"  wrote:
> >> En Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:25:55 -0300, zaur  escribi?:
> >> > On 28 ???, 16:07, Bruno Desthuilliers  >> > 42.desthuilli... at websiteburo.invalid> wrote:
> >> >> zaur a ?crit :
>
> >> >> > Ok. Here is a use case: object initialization.
>
> >> >> Err... Looks like you really should read the FineManual(tm) -
> >> >> specifically, the parts on the __init__ method.
>
> >> > What are you doing if 1) classes Person and Address imported from
> >> > foreign module 2) __init__ method is not defined as you want?
>
> >> Welcome to dynamic languages! It doesn't matter *where* the class was ?
> >> defined. You may add new attributes to the instance (even methods to ?
> >> the class) at any time. [...4 examples...]
>
> > I know about these ways of object initializing. What I said is about
> > using object's dictionary as nested scope in code block. Object
> > initialization is just one use case.
> > So we say about different things.
>
> Well, you asked how to proceed in certain cases and I showed several ways ?
> it can be done right now, without requiring a new scope. You'll have to ?
> think of another use case.
>
> Attribute lookup is explicit in Python, and that's a very good thing. If ?
> you follow the python-ideas thread posted earlier, you'll see the kind of ?
> problems an implicit attribute lookup would cause. The "with" statement is ?
> necesary (and a good thing) in Pascal, but not in Python.
>
> Zope2 departs from this explicitness: it has a  construct ?
> (similar to what you propose), and I hate it profoundly every time I have ?
> to edit a DTML file - I can never tell *where* an attribute comes from. ?
> Another related "feature" is acquisition, a stack of namespaces where ?
> objects "inherit" attributes from their containers. Same thing, a complete ?
> waste of time every time I have to track a bug.
>
> Unless you can find a very compeling use case, I don't think this feature ?
> will become part of the language anytime soon...
>
> --
> Gabriel Genellina


The same can be said about multiple inheritance.
However, multiple inheritance is a powerful tool in the hands of
someone who can properly and effectively use it.


From code at pizzashack.org  Sun Aug 30 03:33:05 2009
From: code at pizzashack.org (Derek Martin)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 02:33:05 -0500
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
In-Reply-To: <0022fef9$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 
	
	
	
	<0022fef9$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <20090830073305.GN20434@dragontoe.org>

On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 07:03:23PM +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 11:11:43 -0700, zaur wrote:
> 
> > I thought that int as object will stay the same object after += but with
> > another integer value. My intuition said me that int object which
> > represent integer value should behave this way.
> 
> If it did, then you would have this behaviour:

No, you wouldn't; the behavior you described is completely different
from, and incompatible with, what zaur wrote.  

He's saying that instead of thinking the integer value of 3 itself
being the object, he expected Python's object model would behave as
though the entity m is the object, and that object exists to contain
an integer value.  In that case, m is always m, but it has whatever
integer value it is told to hold at any point in time.  The
self-referential addition would access the value of m, add the
operand, and store the result back in the same object as the object's
value.  This is not the way Python works, but he's saying this is the
intuitive behavior.  I happen to agree, and argued at length with you
and others about that very thing months ago, when some other third
party posted with that exact same confusion.  

By contrast, your description maintains the concept of numerical value
as object that Python uses, and completely misses the point.  I did
find the description you gave to be highly enlightening though...  It
highlighted perfectly, I think, exactly why it is that Python's behavior
regarding numerical values as objects is *not* intuitive.  Of course,
intuition is highly subjective.

I believe it boils down to this:  People expect that objects they
create are mutable.  At least, unless they specify otherwise.  It is
so in some other programming languages which people may be likely to
be familiar with (if they are not taking their first forray into the
world of computing by learning Python), and even "real world" objects
are essentially always mutable.  If you have a 2002 Buick LeSabre, it
has a number of attributes, including its length, which might be 8.5
feet, for instance.  However, this is not fixed: by adding modified
body parts, or as an extreme example by sawing off the trunk of the
car, the length and indeed the object itself has been changed.
However, despite having been modified, it is at least in some sense
still the same object: it is still a 2002 Buick LeSabre, and it still
has the same *identity* (the same VIN number).  It's the same object,
but its value(s) changed.  [Not that it matters, but I do not own such
a car. :)]

Numbers are fundamentally different from objects.  The number 3 is a
symbol of the idea of the existence of three countable objects.  It
can not be changed (though it can be renamed, if you so choose -- just
don't expect most people to know what you're talking about).  It is
unintuitive that 3 is an object; it is rather what we use to describe
objects -- the value of the object.  It is an abstract concept, and
as such it is not an object at all.  You cannot hear 3, taste
3, nor smell 3.  You can neither see nor touch 3, though you can
certainly see 3 *objects* if they are present, and you can certainly
see the symbol '3' that we use to represent that idea... but you can
not see three itself, because there is no such object.  The only way
to see three is to envision 3 of some object.  The number 3 does not
have a value; it IS a value (it is the symbolic representation of the
value of three).  To say that 3 is an object that has a value is a bit
like saying the length of a car is an object that itself has a length.
It just doesn't compute.

THAT is why Python's behavior with regard to numerical objects is
not intuitive, and frankly bizzare to me, and I dare say to others who
find it so.

Yes, that's right.  BIZZARE.

Of course, none of this is real.  In the end, it's all just a bunch of
wires that either have current or don't.  It's only how *WE* organize
and think about that current that gives it any meaning.  So you're
free to think about it any way you like.

-- 
Derek D. Martin
http://www.pizzashack.org/
GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D

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From milesck at umich.edu  Sun Aug 30 03:38:20 2009
From: milesck at umich.edu (Miles Kaufmann)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 00:38:20 -0700
Subject: Why does this group have so much spam?
In-Reply-To: <7Hnmm.176524$zq1.39243@newsfe22.iad>
References: <7294bf8b-9819-4b6d-92b2-afc1c8042a06@x6g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<7Hnmm.176524$zq1.39243@newsfe22.iad>
Message-ID: <5C6A9174-FE24-433F-8508-03FE8A4DE9D9@umich.edu>

> "casebash"  wrote in message
> news:7294bf8b-9819-4b6d-92b2- 
> afc1c8042a06 at x6g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
>> So much of it could be removed even by simple keyword filtering.

Funny, I was just thinking recently about how *little* spam this list  
gets--on the other hand, I'm following it via the python-list@ mailing  
list.  The list owners do a great job of keeping the level of spam at  
a minimum, though there are occasional false positives (like your  
post, apparently, since I'm only seeing the replies).

-Miles



From detlev at die-offenbachs.de  Sun Aug 30 03:53:03 2009
From: detlev at die-offenbachs.de (Detlev Offenbach)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 09:53:03 +0200
Subject: IDE for python similar to visual basic
References: <2a17396c-4d6d-4cb0-a314-208054a2f774@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

qwe rty wrote:

> i have been searching for am IDE for python that is similar to Visual
> Basic but had no luck.shall you help me please?

eric4 should be a good candidate.

http://eric-ide.python-projects.org

Detlev
-- 
Detlev Offenbach
detlev at die-offenbachs.de


From ubershmekel at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 03:56:31 2009
From: ubershmekel at gmail.com (RunThePun)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 00:56:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Overriding iadd for dictionary like objects
References: 
	
	 
	
	<21e57363-4e92-41cb-9907-5aef96ad0a6e@o15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	 
	
	<58e91734-d03f-417c-89b1-f2717c3a9181@l5g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>
	<87ws4n5gfi.fsf@slice.rozzin.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 29, 1:58?pm, Carl Banks  wrote:
> On Aug 28, 10:37?pm, Joshua Judson Rosen  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Carl Banks  writes:
>
> > > On Aug 28, 2:42?pm, Terry Reedy  wrote:
>
> > > > Carl Banks wrote:
> > > > > I don't think it needs a syntax for that, but I'm not so sure a method
> > > > > to modify a value in place with a single key lookup wouldn't
> > > > > occasioanally be useful.
>
> > > > Augmented assignment does that.
>
> > > Internally uses two lookups, one for getting, and one for setting.
>
> > > I think this is an unavoidable given Python's semantics. ?Look at
> > > the traceback:
>
> > > >>> def x():
> > > ... ? ? d['a'] += 1
> > > ...
> > > >>> dis.dis(x)
> > > ? 2 ? ? ? ? ? 0 LOAD_GLOBAL ? ? ? ? ? ? ?0 (d)
> > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 3 LOAD_CONST ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 1 ('a')
> > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 6 DUP_TOPX ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 2
> > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 9 BINARY_SUBSCR
>
> > OK, there's one lookup, but...
>
> > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?10 LOAD_CONST ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 2 (1)
> > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?13 INPLACE_ADD
> > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?14 ROT_THREE
> > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?15 STORE_SUBSCR
> > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?16 LOAD_CONST ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 0 (None)
> > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ?19 RETURN_VALUE
>
> > ... I don't see anything in there that retrieves the value a second time....
>
> STORE_SUBSCR has to look up the position in the hash table to store
> the value, hence the second lookup.
>
> > > > > As a workaround, if lookups are expensive,
>
> > > > But they are not. Because (C)Python is heavily based on dict name lookup
> > > > for builtins and global names and attributes, as well as overt dict
> > > > lookup, must effort has gone into optimizing dict lookup.
>
> > > The actual lookup algorithm Python dicts use is well-optimized, yes,
> > > but the dict could contain keys that have expensive comparison and
> > > hash-code calculation, in which case lookup is going to be slow.
>
> > I'll like the originator correct me if I've made a mistake, but I read
> > "lookup" as actually meaning "lookup", not "value-comparison".
>
> This has nothing to do with value comparison. ?I was talking about key
> comparison, which happens when looking up a position in a hash table.
> I was the first person to use the word "lookup" in this thread and I
> specifically meant hash-table position lookup.
>
> > At least in part because the question, as it was posed, specifically
> > related to a wrapper-class (providing a mapping ("dict like") interface)
> > around a database of some sort other than Python's dict class per se.
>
> > How do the details of Python's native dict-type's internal (hashtable)
> > algorithm matter when they're explicitly /not/ being used?
>
> Well it doesn't apply specifically to the OP's problem. ?I changed the
> topic a bit by making it specific to dicts. ?Is that ok with you? ?Was
> that not allowed?
>
> The OP can add a method like apply_to_value to his own class, but one
> can't do that for dicts. ?Ergo why something like apply_to_value()
> would be useful enough in rare circumstances where lookup is very slow
> to merit a moments consideration before being rejected.
>
> (If dict did have a method like that, the OP would at least know which
> method to override.)
>
> Carl Banks

First of all I'd like to say thanks for this discussion, you guys are
awesome.

I probably should have explained my problem better to begin with and I
apologize for that. So now I'll start from the top:

I made a DictMixin where the keys are filenames and the values are the
file contents. It was very simple and easy to do thanks to DictMixin.

For example this code writes "abc" in a file named "temp.txt" and
prints the contents of the file named "swallow", these files are
looked up/created/deleted in the directory "spam":
>>> d = FilesDict('spam')
>>> d['temp.txt'] = 'abc'
>>> print(d['swallow'])

This was very convenient for me because I wanted to use a simple DB
which could be read and edited by shell scripts and non-pythonistas,
without the heavy ORM. Also, if in the future an online full featured
DB would be needed, I could easily convert the DictMixin methods.  So
up to here I had a good solution.

My problem arose when I wanted to append a string to a file which
using open(..., 'ab') would have been miles more efficient because I
wouldn't have to read the entire file (__getitem__) and then write the
entire file back (__setitem__). The files are expected to be as big as
600 KB which will be appended 30 bytes at a time about 3 times a
second. Performance-wise the system would probably work without open
(..., 'ab') but it would be a real thrashing so the current solution
uses a method "AddTo" as Robert suggested, sacrificing the neat
getitem/setitem syntax.

Just so I don't leave out any information, I actually also made a
DirectoryDict for having multiple 'tables'. In this DictMixin, keys
are directory names and values are FilesDict instances. So to write
"European or African" to the file "/root/tmp/velocity" one would be
just:
>>> d = DirectoryDict("/root")
>>> d["tmp"]["velocity"] = "European or African"

So now I hope it's clearer why and how I wanted a special
__item_iadd__ for the dictionary syntax,

RunThePun


From dickinsm at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 04:01:37 2009
From: dickinsm at gmail.com (Mark Dickinson)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 01:01:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
References: 
	 
	
	
	<0022fef9$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 29, 8:03?pm, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 11:11:43 -0700, zaur wrote:
> > I thought that int as object will stay the same object after += but with
> > another integer value. My intuition said me that int object which
> > represent integer value should behave this way.
>
> If it did, then you would have this behaviour:
>
> >>> n = 3 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # bind the name n to the object 3
> >>> saved_id = id(n) ? ? ? ? ?# get the id of the object
> >>> n += 1 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?# add one to the object 3
> >>> assert n == 4 ? ? ? ? ? ? # confirm that it has value four
> >>> assert id(n) == saved_id ?# confirm that it is the same object
> >>> m = 3 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # bind the name m to the object 3
> >>> print m + 1 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # but object 3 has been modified
>
> 5

I don't see how that follows.  In an alternative interpretation, the
int literals would all be thought of as distinct objects:  that is,
the line 'n = 3' creates an integer object with value 3 and binds the
name n to it;  the later line 'm = 3' then creates another *new*
integer object with value 3 and binds the name m to it.  In other
words, it could work in exactly the same way as the following works in
Python:

>>> n = {}
>>> n[1729] = 10585
>>> m = {}
>>> m
{}

The modification to n doesn't affect m, since the two occurrences of
{} give distinct dictionary objects.

--
Mark


From garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk  Sun Aug 30 04:17:54 2009
From: garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk (garabik-news-2005-05 at kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 08:17:54 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

r  wrote:
 
> Some may say well how can we possibly force countries/people to speak/
> code in a uniform manner? Well that's simple, you just stop supporting
> their cryptic languages by dumping Unicode and returning to the
> beautiful ASCII and adopting English as the universal world language.
v> Why English? Well because it is so widely spoken. But whatever we
> choose just choose one language and stick with it, perfect it, and
> maintain it.
> 

Y?know, it is na?ve to think that the ?beautiful? ASCII is
sufficient for English?

Besides, there is the APL... (though, you are right, we should dump
those crappy old languages and use Python exclusively)

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------
| Radovan Garab?k http://kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk/~garabik/ |
| __..--^^^--..__    garabik @ kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk     |
 -----------------------------------------------------------
Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus.
Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!


From catalinfest at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 04:20:15 2009
From: catalinfest at gmail.com (catalinfest at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 01:20:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How i follow tree folders from url
Message-ID: <9f163791-417a-49e1-903b-54154ed3bc2b@p9g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

Hello !

I wanna use python to follow the tree folders from one url.
Example :
If url is "www.site.com/first/ and "
"first" is first folder with next subfolders "01","02","03"
The result of script should be :

www.site.com/first/01/
www.site.com/first/02/
www.site.com/first/03/
Maybe urllib has some functions , but i don't know them.

Please help me !
Thank you !


From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Sun Aug 30 04:33:43 2009
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 10:33:43 +0200
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	<6Djmm.14757$ze1.10295@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	
Message-ID: 

* r (Sat, 29 Aug 2009 18:30:34 -0700 (PDT))
> We don't support a Python group in Chinese or French, so why this?

"We" do - you don't (or to be more realistic, you simply didn't know 
it).

> Makes no sense to me really.

Like probably 99.99999% of all things you hear, read, see and encounter 
during the day.

By the way: the dumbness of your "Unicode rant" would have even ashamed 
the great XL himself.

Thorsten


From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Sun Aug 30 04:38:03 2009
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 10:38:03 +0200
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	<6Djmm.14757$ze1.10295@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

* Neil Hodgson (Sun, 30 Aug 2009 06:17:14 GMT)
> Chris Jones:
> 
> > I am not from these climes but all the same, I do find you tone of
> > voice rather offensive, considering that you are referring to a
> > culture that's about 3000 years older and 3000 richer than ours and
> > certainly deserves our respect.
> 
> Eh? Was Unicode developed in India? China?

Chris was obviously talking about Sanskrit...

Thorsten


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sun Aug 30 04:39:19 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 01:39:19 -0700
Subject: How i follow tree folders from url
In-Reply-To: <9f163791-417a-49e1-903b-54154ed3bc2b@p9g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: <9f163791-417a-49e1-903b-54154ed3bc2b@p9g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908300139o3247d2e3g8ef9039fd3f6f301@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 1:20 AM,
catalinfest at gmail.com wrote:
> Hello !
>
> I wanna use python to follow the tree folders from one url.
> Example :
> If url is "www.site.com/first/ and "
> "first" is first folder with next subfolders "01","02","03"
> The result of script should be :
>
> www.site.com/first/01/
> www.site.com/first/02/
> www.site.com/first/03/
> Maybe urllib has some functions , but i don't know them.

HTTP has no equivalent to "ls". You have to either know the format the
of URLs yourself or spider the links on a given page.
To generate the URLs if you know the scheme, use range() and str.zfill().

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Sun Aug 30 04:43:24 2009
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 10:43:24 +0200
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	<6Djmm.14757$ze1.10295@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

* Chris Jones (Sun, 30 Aug 2009 00:22:00 -0400)
> On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 11:07:17PM EDT, Neil Hodgson wrote:
> > Sanskrit is mostly written in Devanagari these days which is also
> > useful for selling things to people who speak Hindi and other Indian
> > languages.
> 
> Is the implication that the principal usefulness of such languages as
> Hindi and "other Indian languages" is us selling "things" to them..? I
> am not from these climes but all the same, I do find you tone of voice
> rather offensive, considering that you are referring to a culture that's
> about 3000 years older and 3000 richer than ours and certainly deserves
> our respect.

Neil was obviously talking about Devanagari. Please also mind the 
principal difference between Neil's "also useful" and your "principal 
useful(ness)".

Thorsten


From solipsis at pitrou.net  Sun Aug 30 04:48:43 2009
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 08:48:43 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

r  gmail.com> writes:
> 
> Why should the larger world
> keep supporting such antiquated languages and character sets through
> Unicode? What purpose does this serve? Are we merely trying to make
> everyone happy? A sort of Utopian free-language-love-fest-kinda-
> thing?

Can you go and troll somewhere else?

Thanks.

Antoine.




From thorsten at thorstenkampe.de  Sun Aug 30 04:53:04 2009
From: thorsten at thorstenkampe.de (Thorsten Kampe)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 10:53:04 +0200
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

* John Machin (Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:20:47 -0700 (PDT))
> On Aug 30, 8:46?am, r  wrote:
> >
> > Take for instance the Chinese language with it's thousands of
> > characters and BS, it's more of an art than a language. ?Why do we
> > need such complicated languages in this day and time. Many languages
> > have been perfected, (although not perfect) far beyond that of
> > Chinese language.
> 
> The Chinese language is more widely spoken than English, is quite
> capable of expression in ASCII ("r tongzhi shi sha gua") and doesn't
> have those pesky it's/its problems.

You could also put it differently: the Chinese language (like any other 
language) doesn't even have "characters". It's really funny to see how 
someone who rants about Unicode doesn't event knows the most basic 
facts.

Thorsten


From 71david at libero.it  Sun Aug 30 05:18:35 2009
From: 71david at libero.it (David)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 11:18:35 +0200
Subject: Why does this group have so much spam?
References: <7294bf8b-9819-4b6d-92b2-afc1c8042a06@x6g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7l1wem586nhf.c8spq9wpqg99.dlg@40tude.net>

Il Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:18:46 -0700 (PDT), casebash ha scritto:

> So much of it could be removed even by simple keyword filtering.

I think there is only one final solution to the spam pestilence: a tiny tax
on email and posts.
Spammers send hundreds of thousands of emails/posts a day and a tax of
0.0001$ each does not harm normal users but discurages spammers. This tax
should be applied when a message is routed by a ISP server, this saves
mails/posts internal to a LAN.
Direct costs of this tax would be compensated by the simplified management
of network traffic (70-90% of mail traffic is spam) and the reduced risk of
virus infections.

David


From larudwer at freenet.de  Sun Aug 30 05:21:46 2009
From: larudwer at freenet.de (larudwer)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 11:21:46 +0200
Subject: weak reference callback
References: 
Message-ID: 


"Paul Pogonyshev"  schrieb im Newsbeitrag 
news:mailman.658.1251577954.2854.python-list at python.org...
> Hi,
>
> Is weak reference callback called immediately after the referenced
> object is deleted or at arbitrary point in time after that?  I.e. is
> it possible to see a dead reference before the callback is called?
>
> More formally, will this ever raise?
>
>    callback_called = False
>    def note_deletion (ref):
>        callback_called = True
>    ref = weakref.ref (x, note_deletion)
>    if ref () is None and not callback_called:
>        raise RuntimeError ("reference is dead, yet callback hasn't been 
> called yet")

The Manual says:
"If callback is provided and not None, and the returned weakref object is 
still alive, the callback will be called when the object is about to be 
finalized; the weak reference object will be passed as the only parameter to 
the callback; the referent will no longer be available."

This says that the Object is deleted first, and the callback functions will 
be called after that. Since after 'after that'  IS an arbitrary point in 
time your example SHOULD raise.

I think it is save to assume that this will never raise in an single 
threaded cpython application because the GIL and reference counting scheme 
etc. will prevent this.

However, this is an implementation specific detail of the cpython runtime 
and it is not save to rely on this behavior.
It may be completely different in an multi threaded environment or any other 
implementation of Python.











From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Aug 30 06:34:17 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 30 Aug 2009 10:34:17 GMT
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
References: 
	
	
	
	<0022fef9$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <0023d927$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 02:33:05 -0500, Derek Martin wrote:

> On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 07:03:23PM +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 11:11:43 -0700, zaur wrote:
>> 
>> > I thought that int as object will stay the same object after += but
>> > with another integer value. My intuition said me that int object
>> > which represent integer value should behave this way.
>> 
>> If it did, then you would have this behaviour:
> 
> No, you wouldn't; the behavior you described is completely different
> from, and incompatible with, what zaur wrote.
> 
> He's saying that instead of thinking the integer value of 3 itself being
> the object, he expected Python's object model would behave as though the
> entity m is the object, and that object exists to contain an integer
> value.

What is "the entity m"?

Is it the name m, as follows?

>>> m = 3  # bind the object 3 to the name m

Or is it the literal "3" (without quotes)?

Or an object holding the value three?

Or something else?


> In that case, m is always m, 
> but it has whatever integer value
> it is told to hold at any point in time.  The self-referential addition
> would access the value of m, add the operand, and store the result back
> in the same object as the object's value.

Ah wait, I think I get it... is m a memory location? So when you say:

m = 3

the memory location that m represents is set to the value 3, and when you 
say:

m += 1

the memory location that m represents is set to the value 4?

That would be how Pascal and C (and presumably other languages) work, but 
not Python or Ruby or even VB (so I'm told) and similar languages. Java 
has a hybrid model, where a few data types (such as ints) are handled 
like C, and everything else is handled like Python. Consistency was never 
Java's strong suit.


> This is not the way Python
> works, but he's saying this is the intuitive behavior.

It isn't intuitive if you've never been exposed to Pascal- or C-like 
languages. If your only programming language was Haskell, the very idea 
of mutating values would be alien. So I guess when you say "the intuitive 
behaviour", what you actually mean is "familiar".


> I happen to
> agree, and argued at length with you and others about that very thing
> months ago, when some other third party posted with that exact same
> confusion.
> 
> By contrast, your description maintains the concept of numerical value
> as object that Python uses, and completely misses the point.  I did find
> the description you gave to be highly enlightening though...  It
> highlighted perfectly, I think, exactly why it is that Python's behavior
> regarding numerical values as objects is *not* intuitive.  Of course,
> intuition is highly subjective.

What exactly is it about Python's behaviour regarding numbers that is not 
intuitive? That you can't do this?

>>> anum = 2
>>> alist = [anum]
>>> anum += 1
>>> print alist  # this doesn't work
[3]

That won't work in any language that I know of -- as far as I am aware, 
the above is impossible in just about every common programming language. 
(My C and VB are nearly non-existent, so I may be wrong about them.) Here 
is Ruby's behaviour:

irb(main):001:0> anum = 2
=> 2
irb(main):002:0> alist = [anum]
=> [2]
irb(main):003:0> anum += 1
=> 3
irb(main):004:0> puts alist
2
=> nil


Just like Python.


> I believe it boils down to this:  People expect that objects they create
> are mutable.

Why would they expect that? Is there any evidence apart from the 
anecdotal complaints of a few people that they expect this? People 
complain equally when they use a mutable default value and it mutates, or 
that they can't use mutable objects as dict keys, so this suggests that 
people expect objects should be immutable and are surprised when they 
change.

If you're going to argue by analogy with the real world (as you do 
further on), I think it's fair to argue that some objects are mutable 
(pieces of rubber that expand into a balloon when you blow into them), 
and some are immutable unless you expend extraordinary effort (rocks). I 
would be gobsmacked if my desk turned pink or changed into an armchair, I 
expect it to be essentially unchanging and immutable. But I fully expect 
a banana to turn black, then squishy, and finally white and fuzzy if I 
leave it long enough.


> At least, unless they specify otherwise.  It is so in some
> other programming languages which people may be likely to be familiar
> with (if they are not taking their first forray into the world of
> computing by learning Python), and even "real world" objects are
> essentially always mutable.
[snip example of a 2002 Buick LeSabre]

Be careful bringing real-world examples into this. People have been 
arguing about identity in the real-world for millennia. See, for example, 
the paradox of my great-grandfather's axe. My great-grandfather's axe is 
still in my family after 80 years, as good as new, although the handle 
has been replaced four times and the head twice. But it's still the same 
axe. An even older example is the paradox of the Ship of Theseus.


> Numbers are fundamentally different from objects.  The number 3 is a
> symbol of the idea of the existence of three countable objects.  It can
> not be changed 

Doesn't this contradict your claim that people expect to be able to 
mutate numbers? That you should be able to do this?

>>> x = 3
>>> id(x)
123456
>>> x += 1
>>> assert x == 4
>>> id(x)
123456


You can't have it both ways -- if people think of objects as mutable, and 
think of numbers as not-objects and unchanging, then why oh why would 
they find Python's numeric behaviour to be unintuitive?


> (though it can be renamed, if you so choose -- just don't
> expect most people to know what you're talking about).  It is
> unintuitive that 3 is an object; 

Says you. People have considered numbers to be eternal, unchanging, 
immutable entities going back to at least Plato. If people are 
comfortable thinking that there are Platonic ideal numbers, why wouldn't 
they think of them represented in computers as immutable objects?

What I think is that some people, such as you and Zaur, have *learned* 
from C-like languages that numbers are mutable not-objects, and you've 
learned it so well that you've forgotten that you ever needed to learn 
it. Consequently what you actually mean when you say Python is 
unintuitive is that Python is not like some other language (and is like 
yet other languages).


> it is rather what we use to describe
> objects -- the value of the object.  It is an abstract concept, and as
> such it is not an object at all.  You cannot hear 3, taste 3, nor smell
> 3.  You can neither see nor touch 3, though you can certainly see 3
> *objects* if they are present, and you can certainly see the symbol '3'
> that we use to represent that idea... but you can not see three itself,
> because there is no such object.

Human beings are excellent at reifying abstract things into (imaginary) 
objects. We talk about letting in the cold (we actually let out the 
heat); we talk about souls and life-force as if they are things; we treat 
justice and love and mercy and hate as palpable things instead of 
emotions and abstract entities. Plato imagined that everything has a 
pure, abstract form, an ideal, and people find that intuitive: we expect 
that there is an archetypal "chair" that embodies everything that is 
chair-like and nothing which is not, if only we could find it.

Numbers are no different. Reifying them into objects comes easy to people 
who haven't learned differently.


> The only way to see three is to
> envision 3 of some object.  The number 3 does not have a value; it IS a
> value (it is the symbolic representation of the value of three).  To say
> that 3 is an object that has a value is a bit like saying the length of
> a car is an object that itself has a length. 

No, the length of a car is an object which *is* a length, it doesn't 
*have* a length.


> It just doesn't compute.

None of this explains why you would expect to be able to mutate the value 
three and turn it into four.

I don't think your argument makes sense -- I think your explanation is 
tangled up in knots. Everything you say about numbers being unchangeable, 
immutable entities supports Python's behaviour to make numbers immutable, 
and yet you argue that since people expect numbers to be unchanging, they 
therefore expect Python ints to be mutable! This makes no sense.


> THAT is why Python's behavior with regard to numerical objects is not
> intuitive, and frankly bizzare to me, and I dare say to others who find
> it so.
> 
> Yes, that's right.  BIZZARE.

I think you have confused yourself. If the number three cannot change, 
and you have a label "m" associated with three, then if you add one to 
it, you *can't* have the three mutate into a four, because numbers cannot 
change. Obviously the label has to detach itself off the three and onto 
the four -- precisely the behaviour Python uses. Plato would surely have 
found this commonsensical, and I would say that it's only those who have 
become used to Pascal-like languages that don't.


-- 
Steven


From ptmcg at austin.rr.com  Sun Aug 30 06:42:06 2009
From: ptmcg at austin.rr.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 03:42:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
References: 
	 
	
	
	<0022fef9$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <725bcd4c-01ed-489d-baa4-288a5c492831@m20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 30, 2:33?am, Derek Martin  wrote:
> THAT is why Python's behavior with regard to numerical objects is
> not intuitive, and frankly bizzare to me, and I dare say to others who
> find it so.
>
> Yes, that's right. ?BIZZARE.
>

Can't we all just get along?

I think the question boils down to "where is the object?".  In this
statement:

a = 3

which is the object, a or 3?

There exist languages (such as C++) that allow you to override the '='
assignment as a class operator.  So that I could create a class where
I decided that assigning an integer value to it applies some
application logic, probably the setting of some fundamental
attribute.  In that language, 'a' is the object, and 3 is a value
being assigned to it.  This can cause some consternation when a reader
(or worse, maintainer) isn't familiar with my code, sees this simple
assignment, and figures that they can use 'a' elsewhere as a simple
integer, with some surprising or disturbing results.

Python just doesn't work that way.

Python binds values to names. Always. In Python, "=" is not and never
could be a class operator.  In Python, any expression of LHS = RHS,
LHS is always a name, and in this statement it is being bound to some
object found by evaluating the right hand side, RHS.

The bit of confusion here is that the in-place operators like +=, -=,
etc. are something of a misnomer - obviously a *name* can't be
incremented or decremented (unlike a pointer in C or C++).  One has to
see that these are really shortcuts for LHS = LHS + RHS, and once
again, our LHS is just a name getting bound to the result of LHS +
RHS.  Is this confusing, or non-intuitive? Maybe. Do you want to write
code in Python? Get used to it.  It is surprising how many times we
think things are "intuitive" when we really mean they are "familiar".
For long-time C and Java developers, it is intuitive that variables
are memory locations, and switching to Python's name model for them is
non-intuitive.

As for your quibble about "3 is not an object", I'm afraid that may be
your own personal set of blinders.  Integer constants as objects is
not unique to Python, you can see it in other languages - Smalltalk
and Ruby are two that I know personally.  Ruby implements a loop using
this interesting notation:

3.times do
   ...do something...
end

Of course, it is a core idiom of the language, and if I adopted Ruby,
I would adopt its idioms and object model.

Is it any odder that 3 is an object than that the string literal
"Hello, World!" is an object?  Perhaps we are just not reminded of it
so often, because Python's int class defines no methods that are not
"__" special methods (type in "dir(3)" at the Python prompt).  So we
never see any Python code referencing a numeric literal and
immediately calling a method on it, as in Ruby's simple loop
construct.  But we do see methods implemented on str like split(), and
so "about above across after against".split() gives me a list of the
English prepositions that begin with "a". We see this kind of thing
often enough, we get accustomed to the objectness of string literals.
It gets to be so familiar, it eventually seems "intuitive".  You
yourself mentioned that intuition is subjective - unfortunately, the
"intuitiveness" of a feature is often tied to its value as a coding
concept, and so statements of non-intuitiveness can be interpreted as
a slant against the virtue of that concept, or even against the
language itself.

Once we accept that 3 is an object, we clearly have to stipulate that
there can be no changes allowed to it.  3 must *always* have the value
of the integer between 2 and 4.  So our language invokes the concept
that some classes create instances that are immutable.

For a Python long-timer like Mr. D'Aprano, I don't think he even
consciously thinks about this kind of thing any more; his intuition
has aligned with the Python stars, so he extrapolates from the OP's
suggestion to the resulting aberrant behavior, as he posted it.

You can dispute and rail at this core language concept if you like,
but I think the more entrenched you become in the position that "'3 is
an object' is bizarre", the less enjoyable your Python work will be.

-- Paul


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Aug 30 06:44:48 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 30 Aug 2009 10:44:48 GMT
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
References: 
	
	
	
	<0022fef9$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <0023db9f$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 01:01:37 -0700, Mark Dickinson wrote:

> On Aug 29, 8:03?pm, Steven D'Aprano  cybersource.com.au> wrote:
>> On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 11:11:43 -0700, zaur wrote:
>> > I thought that int as object will stay the same object after += but
>> > with another integer value. My intuition said me that int object
>> > which represent integer value should behave this way.
>>
>> If it did, then you would have this behaviour:
>>
>> >>> n = 3 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # bind the name n to the object 3
>> >>> saved_id = id(n) ? ? ? ? ?# get the id of the object n += 1 ? ? ? ?
>> >>> ? ? ? ? ? ?# add one to the object 3 assert n == 4 ? ? ? ? ? ? #
>> >>> confirm that it has value four assert id(n) == saved_id ?# confirm
>> >>> that it is the same object m = 3 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # bind the
>> >>> name m to the object 3 print m + 1 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # but object 3 has
>> >>> been modified
>>
>> 5
> 
> I don't see how that follows.

Okay, it follows given Python's caching of small integer objects.

It also follows from the idea that there is one abstract entity which 
English speakers call "three" and write as 3. There's not two identical 
entities with value 3, or four, or a million of them, only one.

But of course your alternative implementation (where every time the 
Python VM sees the literal 3 it creates a new integer object with that 
value) would also be a valid, albeit inefficient, implementation. To be 
honest, I didn't even think of that.


-- 
Steven


From ptmcg at austin.rr.com  Sun Aug 30 06:52:36 2009
From: ptmcg at austin.rr.com (Paul McGuire)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 03:52:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
References: 
	 
	
	
	<0022fef9$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	 
	<725bcd4c-01ed-489d-baa4-288a5c492831@m20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <71e92f9c-4094-409d-95d7-9836737d4dc2@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 30, 5:42?am, Paul McGuire  wrote:
> Python binds values to names. Always. In Python, "=" is not and never
> could be a class operator. ?In Python, any expression of LHS = RHS,
> LHS is always a name, and in this statement it is being bound to some
> object found by evaluating the right hand side, RHS.
>
An interesting side note, and one that could be granted to the OP, is
that Python *does* support the definition of class operator overrides
for in-place assignment operators like += (by defining a method
__iadd__).  This is how numpy's values accomplish their mutability.

> It is surprising how many times we
> think things are "intuitive" when we really mean they are "familiar".
Of course, just as I was typing my response, Steve D'Aprano beat me to
the punch.

Maybe it's time we added a new acronym to this group's ongoing
discussions: PDWTW, or "Python doesn't work that way".

-- Paul


From marduk at letterboxes.org  Sun Aug 30 07:09:46 2009
From: marduk at letterboxes.org (Albert Hopkins)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 07:09:46 -0400
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
In-Reply-To: <0023db9f$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 
	
	
	
	<0022fef9$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<0023db9f$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <1251630586.9674.0.camel@centar.nbk>

On Sun, 2009-08-30 at 10:44 +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> It also follows from the idea that there is one abstract entity which 
> English speakers call "three" and write as 3. There's not two
> identical 
> entities with value 3, or four, or a million of them, only one.

That's not true.  There are many different 3s in all the parallel
universes. ;)

-a



From webcokies at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 30 07:19:10 2009
From: webcokies at yahoo.com (Joni Lee)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 04:19:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: a popen question. Please help
Message-ID: <473423.84282.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi all,

I write a small script

texts = os.popen('top').readlines()
print texts

It calls the command line "top" and will print out some texts.
But first I have to press the keyboard "q" to quit the subprocess "top", then the texts will be printed, otherwise it just stands by with blank.

Question
is. Do you know how to give "q" into my python script so that "top" is
automatically quit immediately or maybe after 1s and print out the texts.

Thank you



      
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 07:26:54 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 04:26:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
References: 
	 
	
	
	<0022fef9$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
Message-ID: <0221274c-994d-4130-93bb-a5fb528e7b83@x6g2000prc.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 30, 12:33?am, Derek Martin  wrote:
[snip rant]
> THAT is why Python's behavior with regard to numerical objects is
> not intuitive, and frankly bizzare to me, and I dare say to others who
> find it so.
>
> Yes, that's right. ?BIZZARE.

You mean it's different from how you first learned it.


Carl Banks


From rolfpw at online.de  Sun Aug 30 07:34:46 2009
From: rolfpw at online.de (Rolf)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 13:34:46 +0200
Subject: How to install setuptools...egg?
Message-ID: 

Hi,

I would like to install setuptools for Python2.6 on Windows. 
Unfortunately I could only find setuptools-0.6c9-py2.6.egg but no *.exe 
for Python2.6. And as far as I understand I need setuptools to install a 
Python egg. I would be very appreciative for any help.

Regards

Rolf


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Sun Aug 30 07:43:19 2009
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 06:43:19 -0500
Subject: a popen question. Please help
In-Reply-To: <473423.84282.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <473423.84282.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4A9A65D7.4020308@tim.thechases.com>

> texts = os.popen('top').readlines()
> print texts
> 
> It calls the command line "top" and will print out some texts.
> But first I have to press the keyboard "q" to quit the subprocess "top", then the texts will be printed, otherwise it just stands by with blank.
> 
> Question
> is. Do you know how to give "q" into my python script so that "top" is
> automatically quit immediately or maybe after 1s and print out the texts.

Well as a workaround, my version of top (on Debian) supports a 
"-n" parameter so you can tell it how many iterations you want it 
to perform before quitting.  So you should be able to just use

   os.popen('top -n1').readlines()

-tkc





From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sun Aug 30 07:49:17 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 04:49:17 -0700
Subject: a popen question. Please help
In-Reply-To: <4A9A65D7.4020308@tim.thechases.com>
References: <473423.84282.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4A9A65D7.4020308@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908300449i65d22994ra6d63b0bbdb1d201@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 4:43 AM, Tim Chase wrote:
>> texts = os.popen('top').readlines()
>> print texts
>>
>> It calls the command line "top" and will print out some texts.
>> But first I have to press the keyboard "q" to quit the subprocess "top",
>> then the texts will be printed, otherwise it just stands by with blank.
>>
>> Question
>> is. Do you know how to give "q" into my python script so that "top" is
>> automatically quit immediately or maybe after 1s and print out the texts.
>
> Well as a workaround, my version of top (on Debian) supports a "-n"
> parameter so you can tell it how many iterations you want it to perform
> before quitting. ?So you should be able to just use
>
> ?os.popen('top -n1').readlines()

Hm, interesting. On Mac OS X's (and BSD's?) top, -n instead specifies
the number of processes to list at a time (i.e. list only the top N
processes), which is entirely different.

Cheers,
Chris


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 07:49:51 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 04:49:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
References: 
	 
	
	
	<0022fef9$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	 
	<0023d927$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <051da35f-efc2-4c4a-9b87-6d7db59c4529@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 30, 3:34?am, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 02:33:05 -0500, Derek Martin wrote:
> > On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 07:03:23PM +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> >> On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 11:11:43 -0700, zaur wrote:
>
> >> > I thought that int as object will stay the same object after += but
> >> > with another integer value. My intuition said me that int object
> >> > which represent integer value should behave this way.
>
> >> If it did, then you would have this behaviour:
>
> > No, you wouldn't; the behavior you described is completely different
> > from, and incompatible with, what zaur wrote.
>
> > He's saying that instead of thinking the integer value of 3 itself being
> > the object, he expected Python's object model would behave as though the
> > entity m is the object, and that object exists to contain an integer
> > value.
>
> What is "the entity m"?

I think they (Derek and zaur) expect integer objects to be mutable.

It's pretty common for people coming from "name is a location in
memory" languages to have this conception of integers as an
intermediate stage of learning Python's object system.  Even once
they've understood "everything is an object" and "names are references
to objects" they won't have learned all the nuances of the system, and
might still (not unreasonably) think integer objects could be mutable.

However, it'd be nice if all these people didn't post here whining
about how surprising and unintuitive it is and instead just said, "ah,
integers are immutable, got it", quietly to themselves.


Carl Banks


From deets at nospam.web.de  Sun Aug 30 07:51:21 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: 30 Aug 2009 11:51:21 GMT
Subject: How to install setuptools...egg?
References: 
Message-ID: <36484556273325783.562061deets-nospam.web.de@news.hansenet.de>

Rolf  wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I would like to install setuptools for Python2.6 on Windows. 
> Unfortunately I could only find setuptools-0.6c9-py2.6.egg but no
> *.exe 
> for Python2.6. And as far as I understand I need setuptools to install
> a 
> Python egg. I would be very appreciative for any help.


You bootstrap setuptools by downloading & executing ez_setup.py. 


Diez


From cjw at ncf.ca  Sun Aug 30 08:08:20 2009
From: cjw at ncf.ca (Colin J. Williams)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 08:08:20 -0400
Subject: How to install setuptools...egg?
In-Reply-To: <36484556273325783.562061deets-nospam.web.de@news.hansenet.de>
References: 
	<36484556273325783.562061deets-nospam.web.de@news.hansenet.de>
Message-ID: 

Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
> Rolf  wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I would like to install setuptools for Python2.6 on Windows. 
>> Unfortunately I could only find setuptools-0.6c9-py2.6.egg but no
>> *.exe 
>> for Python2.6. And as far as I understand I need setuptools to install
>> a 
>> Python egg. I would be very appreciative for any help.
> 
> 
> You bootstrap setuptools by downloading & executing ez_setup.py. 
> 
> 
> Diez
You might try, at the command line:
   easy_install setuptools

Colin W.



From abecedarian314159 at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 30 08:10:20 2009
From: abecedarian314159 at yahoo.com (William)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 05:10:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <669926.22777.qm@web110604.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

For wxFormbuilder, does it also support AUI (dockable windows,etc.)?

Thanks,
William

--- On Wed, 8/26/09, Robert Kern  wrote:

From: Robert Kern 
Subject: Re: Python for professsional Windows GUI apps?
To: python-list at python.org
Date: Wednesday, August 26, 2009, 7:40 PM

On 2009-08-26 18:08 PM, sturlamolden wrote:
> On 26 Aug, 22:47, David C Ullrich? wrote:
> 
>>> Nothing, except lobbying for wxFormBuilder for anyone who still doesn't
>>> know of it. :)
>> 
>> That's great. But do you know of anything I can use as a
>> visual form design tool in wxPython?
> 
> Right... I don't know if you are trying to be funny, but as I said
> there is wxFormBuilder...
> 
> 3.0 generates XRC that you can use with wxPython.
> 3.1 beta generates wxPython classes you can subclass.
> 
> Honestly, it's the best GUI builder for wxPython I know of.

It's possible that he is not asking for a visual form designer tool *for* building a wxPython app, but one that can be used *inside* a wxPython app like an IDE or something similar.

-- Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
 that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
 an underlying truth."
? -- Umberto Eco

-- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



      
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From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Sun Aug 30 08:11:15 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 14:11:15 +0200
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
In-Reply-To: 
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <200908301411.15680.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Sunday 30 August 2009 02:20:47 John Machin wrote:
> On Aug 30, 8:46?am, r  wrote:
> > Take for instance the Chinese language with it's thousands of
> > characters and BS, it's more of an art than a language. ?Why do we
> > need such complicated languages in this day and time. Many languages
> > have been perfected, (although not perfect) far beyond that of Chinese
> > language.
>
> The Chinese language is more widely spoken than English, is quite
> capable of expression in ASCII ("r tongzhi shi sha gua") and doesn't
> have those pesky it's/its problems.
>
> > The A-Z char set is flawless!
>
> ... for expressing the sounds of a very limited number of languages,
> and English is *NOT* one of those.

I suspect that the alphabet is not ideal for representing the sounds of _any_ 
language, and I would look for my proof in the plethora of things that we use 
when writing, other than the bare A-Z.   - Punctuation, diacritics...

But what really started me thinking, after reading this post of John's, read 
with Dennis'. - on the dissimilarity of the spoken and written Chinese - was 
the basic dichotomy of the two systems - a symbol for a sound vs a symbol for 
a word or an idea.

I know that when I read, I do not actually read the characters, I recognize 
words, and only fall back to messing with characters when I hit something 
unfamiliar.

So It would seem to me that r's "utopia" could sooner be realized if the 
former system were abandoned in favour of the latter. - and Horrors!  The 
language of choice would not be English!

Not that I agree that it would be a Utopia, whatever the language  - more like 
a nightmare of Orwellian proportions - because the language you get taught 
first, moulds the way you think.  And I know from personal experience that 
there are concepts that can be succinctly expressed in one language, that 
takes a lot of wordy handwaving to get across in another.  So diversity would 
be less, creativity would suffer due to lack of cross pollination, and 
progress would slow or stop.

- Hendrik


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Sun Aug 30 08:17:08 2009
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 07:17:08 -0500
Subject: a popen question. Please help
In-Reply-To: <50697b2c0908300449i65d22994ra6d63b0bbdb1d201@mail.gmail.com>
References: <473423.84282.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<4A9A65D7.4020308@tim.thechases.com>
	<50697b2c0908300449i65d22994ra6d63b0bbdb1d201@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A9A6DC4.5060804@tim.thechases.com>

>>  os.popen('top -n1').readlines()
> 
> Hm, interesting. On Mac OS X's (and BSD's?) top, -n instead specifies
> the number of processes to list at a time (i.e. list only the top N
> processes), which is entirely different.

[reaching over to my Mac] Looks like "top" there supports a -l 
parameter which does something similar.

Darn "standards" :-/

-tkc






From rt8396 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 08:19:45 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 05:19:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <3e9ddb9b-8f61-4d8d-a25c-7e95e8a25c06@g1g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 29, 11:05?pm, Anny Mous  wrote:
(snip)
> How do we distinguish resume from r?sum? without accents?

This is another quirk of some languages that befuddles me. What is
with the ongoing language pronunciation tutorial some languages have
turned into -- French is a good example (*puke*). Do you *really* need
those squiggly lines and cues above letters so you won't forget how to
pronounce a word. Pure ridiculousness!

> Even when we succeed in banning all languages that can't be written using
> A-Z, what do we do about the vast number of legacy documents? How do we
> write about obsolete English letters like ? and ? without Unicode?

Who gives a fig about obsolete languages, thank god they are dead and
let's move on!!


> > Some may say well how can we possibly force countries/people to speak/
> > code in a uniform manner? Well that's simple, you just stop supporting
> > their cryptic languages by dumping Unicode and returning to the
> > beautiful ASCII and adopting English as the universal world language.
> > Why English? Well because it is so widely spoken.
>
> World population: 6.7 billion
>
> Number of native Mandarin speakers: 873 million
> Number of native Hindi speakers: 370 million
> Number of native Spanish speakers: 350 million
> Number of native English speakers: 340 million
>
> Total number of Mandarin speakers: 1051 million
> Total number of English speakers: 510 million
>
> http://www.vistawide.com/languages/top_30_languages.htm

I was actually referring to countries where the majority of people
*actually* know what a computer is and how to use it... If there
culture has not caught up with western technology yet they are doomed
to the fate of native American Indians.

> Whichever way you look at it, we should all convert to Mandarin, not
> English. Looks like we still need Unicode.

see my last comment

(snip entertaining assumptions)

> Yes, because language differences have utterly destroyed us so many times in
> the past!
>
> Have you thought about the difference between China, with one culture and
> one spoken language for thousands of years, and Europe, with dozens of
> competing cultures, competing governments, and alternate languages for just
> as long? If multiple languages are so harmful, why was it the British,
> French, Japanese, Russians, Germans, Italians, Austrians, Hungarians and
> Americans who were occupying China during the Opium Wars and the Boxer
> Rebellion, instead of the other way around?
>
> Strength comes from diversity, not monoculture.

No strength comes from superior firepower. The Chinese culture stop
evolving thousands of years ago. Who invented gun powder? Yes the
Chinese and all they could do with it was create fireworks. Europeans
took gun powered and started a revolution that changes the world
forever -- for better and for worse, but that is how advancements
work. It wasn't until western influence came along and finally nudged
china into the 21st century. Europeans seek out technology and aren't
dragged down by an antiquated culture which is good for innovation. If
China with it's huge population thought like a European, they would
rule the earth for 10,000 years.



From rt8396 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 08:25:58 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 05:25:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	<6Djmm.14757$ze1.10295@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	
	
Message-ID: <9077a084-bf0c-4480-b6e4-59f62558f3f4@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 30, 3:33?am, Thorsten Kampe  wrote:
[snip ridiculous trolling]
> Thorsten

Hmm, I wonder who's sock puppet you are Thorsten?


From lists at cheimes.de  Sun Aug 30 08:27:06 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 14:27:06 +0200
Subject: How to install setuptools...egg?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<36484556273325783.562061deets-nospam.web.de@news.hansenet.de>
	
Message-ID: 

Colin J. Williams wrote:
> You might try, at the command line:
>    easy_install setuptools


That's not going to work. setuptools provides the easy_install command.
If you have the easy_install command than setuptools is already installed.

Christian



From sjmachin at lexicon.net  Sun Aug 30 08:41:23 2009
From: sjmachin at lexicon.net (John Machin)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 05:41:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 30, 4:47?pm, Dennis Lee Bieber  wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 14:05:24 +1000, Anny Mous 
> declaimed the following in gmane.comp.python.general:
>
> > Have you thought about the difference between China, with one culture and
> > one spoken language for thousands of years, and Europe, with dozens of
>
> ? ? ? ? China has one WRITTEN language -- It has multiple SPOKEN languages

... hence Chinese movies have subtitles in Chinese. And it can't
really be called one written language. For a start there are the
Traditional characters and the Simplified characters. Then there are
regional variations and add-ons e.g. the Hong Kong Special Character
Set (now added into Unicode): not academic-only stuff, includes
surnames, the "Hang" in Hang Seng Index and Hang Seng Bank, and the
5th character of the Chinese name of The Hongkong and Shanghai Banking
Corporation Limited on the banknotes it issues.

> (the main two being mandarin and cantonese -- with enough differences
> between them that they might as well be spanish vs italian)

Mandarin and Cantonese are groups of languages/dialects. Rough figures
(millions): Mandarin 850, Wu 90, Min and Cantonese about 70 each. The
intelligibility comparison is more like Romanian vs Portuguese, or
Icelandic vs Dutch. I've heard that the PLA used Shanghainese (Wu
group) as code talkers just like the USMC used Navajos.



From rt8396 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 08:49:19 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 05:49:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 30, 7:11?am, Hendrik van Rooyen 
wrote:
(snip)
> I suspect that the alphabet is not ideal for representing the sounds of _any_
> language, and I would look for my proof in the plethora of things that we use
> when writing, other than the bare A-Z. ? - Punctuation, diacritics...

It can be made better and if that means add/removing letters or
redefining what a letter represents i am fine with that. I know first
hand the hypocrisy of the English language. I am thinking more on the
lines of English redux!

> Not that I agree that it would be a Utopia, whatever the language ?- more like
> a nightmare of Orwellian proportions - because the language you get taught
> first, moulds the way you think. ?And I know from personal experience that
> there are concepts that can be succinctly expressed in one language, that
> takes a lot of wordy handwaving to get across in another. ?So diversity would
> be less, creativity would suffer due to lack of cross pollination, and
> progress would slow or stop.

We already live in a Orwellian language nightmare. Have you seen much
change to the English language in your lifetime? i haven't. A language
must constantly evolve and trim the excess cruft that pollutes it. And
English has a mountain of cruft! After all our years on this planet i
think it's high time to perfect a simplified language for world-wide
usage.



From bh at izb.knu.ac.kr  Sun Aug 30 09:23:33 2009
From: bh at izb.knu.ac.kr (Byung-Hee HWANG)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 22:23:33 +0900
Subject: Why does this group have so much spam?
References: <7294bf8b-9819-4b6d-92b2-afc1c8042a06@x6g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <86vdk5o2p6.fsf@betla.izb.knu.ac.kr>

casebash  writes:

> So much of it could be removed even by simple keyword filtering.

Use python-list at python.org [1], instead.

[1] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

-- 
"He's a responsible man in his own way."
		-- Michael Corleone, "Chapter 25", page 363


From szport at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 09:32:22 2009
From: szport at gmail.com (zaur)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 06:32:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
References: 
	 
	
	
	<0022fef9$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

On 29 ???, 23:03, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 11:11:43 -0700, zaur wrote:
> > I thought that int as object will stay the same object after += but with
> > another integer value. My intuition said me that int object which
> > represent integer value should behave this way.
>
> If it did, then you would have this behaviour:
>
> >>> n = 3 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # bind the name n to the object 3
> >>> saved_id = id(n) ? ? ? ? ?# get the id of the object
> >>> n += 1 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?# add one to the object 3
> >>> assert n == 4 ? ? ? ? ? ? # confirm that it has value four
> >>> assert id(n) == saved_id ?# confirm that it is the same object
> >>> m = 3 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # bind the name m to the object 3
> >>> print m + 1 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? # but object 3 has been modified
>
> 5
>
> This would be pretty disturbing behaviour, and anything but intuitive.
>
> Fortunately, Python avoids this behaviour by making ints immutable. You
> can't change the object 3 to have any other value, it will always have
> value three, and consequently n+=1 assigns a new object to n.
>
> --
> Steven

This behavior is because small integers are cached internally. See

Python 2.6.2 (r262:71600, Apr 16 2009, 09:17:39)
[GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 5250)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> a=1
>>> c=1
>>> d=10000
>>> e=10000
>>> id(a),id(c),id(d),id(e)
(16793992, 16793992, 17067336, 17067276)


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 09:37:19 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 06:37:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 30, 7:11?am, Hendrik van Rooyen 
wrote:
(snip)
> Not that I agree that it would be a Utopia, whatever the language ?- more like
> a nightmare of Orwellian proportions - because the language you get taught
> first, moulds the way you think. ?And I know from personal experience that
> there are concepts that can be succinctly expressed in one language, that
> takes a lot of wordy handwaving to get across in another. ?So diversity would
> be less, creativity would suffer due to lack of cross pollination, and
> progress would slow or stop.
>
> - Hendrik

What makes you think that diversity is lost with a single language? I
say more pollination will occur and the seed will be more potent since
all parties will contribute to the same pool. Sure there will be
idioms of different regions but that is to be expected. But at least
then i could make international crank calls without the language
barrier ;-)


From sergiocharpinel at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 09:51:04 2009
From: sergiocharpinel at gmail.com (Sergio Charpinel Jr.)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 10:51:04 -0300
Subject: Sqlite format string
In-Reply-To: <20090830032422.GA23090@cskk.homeip.net>
References: 
	<20090830032422.GA23090@cskk.homeip.net>
Message-ID: 

Thank you very much.

2009/8/30 Cameron Simpson 

> On 29Aug2009 17:27, Sergio Charpinel Jr. 
> wrote:
> | Hi,
> | I have this statement cursor.execute("SELECT * from session_attribute
> WHERE
> | sid=%s", ( user ))
> | and I'm receiving this error :
> |
> | TypeError: not all arguments converted during string formatting
> |
> | What is wrong ?
>
> This:
>
>  ( user )
>
> is not a tuple containing the element user. It's just user.
>
> This:
>
>  ( user, )
>
> is what you want.
> --
> Cameron Simpson  DoD#743
> http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/
>
> [Alain] had been looking at his dashboard, and had not seen me, so I
> ran into him. - Jean Alesi on his qualifying prang at Imola '93
>



-- 
Sergio Roberto Charpinel Jr.
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From rt8396 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 09:55:34 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 06:55:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to install setuptools...egg?
References: 
	<36484556273325783.562061deets-nospam.web.de@news.hansenet.de> 
	
Message-ID: <2062b940-d248-47e3-adaf-2aaecd83e18c@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 30, 7:08?am, "Colin J. Williams"  wrote:

> You might try, at the command line:
> ? ?easy_install setuptools

Wait maybe you should try this command

>>> help(setuptools)

:-)


From marduk at letterboxes.org  Sun Aug 30 10:12:26 2009
From: marduk at letterboxes.org (Albert Hopkins)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 10:12:26 -0400
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
In-Reply-To: <051da35f-efc2-4c4a-9b87-6d7db59c4529@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	
	
	<0022fef9$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<0023d927$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<051da35f-efc2-4c4a-9b87-6d7db59c4529@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1251641546.14626.17.camel@centar.nbk>

On Sun, 2009-08-30 at 04:49 -0700, Carl Banks wrote:
> It's pretty common for people coming from "name is a location in
> memory" languages to have this conception of integers as an
> intermediate stage of learning Python's object system.  Even once
> they've understood "everything is an object" and "names are references
> to objects" they won't have learned all the nuances of the system, and
> might still (not unreasonably) think integer objects could be mutable.
> 
I agree.  Python (and other similar languages?) are different in that.
'x' does not point to an area in memory, where you can do anything with
that area.  But in Python there are objects, and they are "references"
in memory that some magical "reference counter" keeps track of for us
(and that's a wonderful thing).  And what is 'x'?  Well 'x' is just some
"label" that just so happens to have the privelage of being associated
with this "unnamed" object.  'x' could just as easily associate itself
with another object.

I think that the Blue programming language, which I have been looking at
lately, makes this distinction even clearer.  For example, functions are
not defined by names at all.  Instead of

    def funcname(): ...

You have

    func{...};

If you actually want to be able to reference the function later (as you
probably would) then it's just a simple assignment just like any other
assignment:

    funcname = func{...};

But i think it makes it more clear that "funcname" just so happens to
reference this object that's a function.  It's the same basic philosophy
when applied to methods:

    MyClass = sys.class();
    MyClass.my_method = func{...};

Blue also has interesting, simple rules wrt scopes.  It's a surprisingly
small, simple language (yet in a very early stage of development.

> However, it'd be nice if all these people didn't post here whining
> about how surprising and unintuitive it is and instead just said, "ah,
> integers are immutable, got it", quietly to themselves.

Yes, when I was first learning Python, at least the book I used made it
very clear when introducing a new type to specify that type as mutable
or immutable.  It's a very core concept to Python.  If you choose to
ignore it or refuse to understand it then you are asking for trouble.

-a




From catalinfest at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 10:27:10 2009
From: catalinfest at gmail.com (catafest)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 07:27:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: About diagram and python
References: <030422b7-a4f8-4ea6-8708-4486da4cf595@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

This is the software :
http://projects.gnome.org/dia/



From magawake at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 10:27:10 2009
From: magawake at gmail.com (Mag Gam)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 10:27:10 -0400
Subject: Parse xml file
In-Reply-To: <4a969a9c$0$32665$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
References: 
	<4a969a9c$0$32665$9b4e6d93@newsspool2.arcor-online.net>
Message-ID: <1cbd6f830908300727lf4281f2wca2f5778dff181f@mail.gmail.com>

XML is a structured file. I never knew you can read it line by line
and process. iterparse()

More info on iterparse():
http://effbot.org/zone/element-iterparse.htm


On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 10:39 AM, Stefan Behnel wrote:
> loial wrote:
>> Is there a quick way to retrieve data from an xml file in python 2.4,
>> rather than read the whole file?
>
> ElementTree is available as an external package for Py2.4 (and it's in the
> stdlib xml.etree package since 2.5).
>
> It's pretty much the easiest way to get data out of XML files.
>
> If your statement "rather than read the whole file" was referring to the
> file size, note that the C implementation "cElementTree" of ElementTree is
> very memory efficient, so you might still get away with just reading the
> whole file into memory. There's also the iterparse() function which
> supports iterative parsing of an XML file and thus allows intermediate
> cleanup of used data.
>
> Stefan
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From catalinfest at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 10:49:52 2009
From: catalinfest at gmail.com (catalinfest at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 07:49:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How i follow tree folders from url
Message-ID: <27fb7927-d3cd-446f-93b5-68bd2125c2ce@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>

Hello !

 I wanna use python to follow the tree folders from one url to get
data about dirs and folders.
 Example :
 If url is "www.site.com/first/ and "
 "first" is first folder with next subfolders "01","02","03"
 The result of script should be :

 www.site.com/first/01/
 www.site.com/first/02/
 www.site.com/first/03/

What is a easy way to make this ?


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Sun Aug 30 10:51:23 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 16:51:23 +0200
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
In-Reply-To: <200908301411.15680.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	
	<200908301411.15680.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
Message-ID: 

30-08-2009 o 14:11:15 Hendrik van Rooyen  wrote:

> a nightmare of Orwellian proportions - because the language you get  
> taught first, moulds the way you think.  And I know from personal  
> experience that
> there are concepts that can be succinctly expressed in one language, that
> takes a lot of wordy handwaving to get across in another.  So diversity  
> would be less, creativity would suffer due to lack of cross pollination,
> and progress would slow or stop.

That's the point! Even in the case of programming languages we say about
'culture' and 'way of thinking' connected with each of them, though
after all they are only formal constructs.

In case of natural languages it's incomparably richer and more complex.
Each natural language has richness of culture and ages of history
-- behind that language and recorded in it in many ways.

Most probably such an unification would mean terrible impoverishment
of our (humans') culture and, as a result, terrible squandering of our
intelectual, emotional, cognitive etc. potential -- especially if such
unification were a result of intentional policy (and not of a slow and
'patient' process of synthesis).

*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From paul at boddie.org.uk  Sun Aug 30 11:09:40 2009
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 08:09:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	 
	
	
Message-ID: 

On 30 Aug, 14:49, r  wrote:
>
> It can be made better and if that means add/removing letters or
> redefining what a letter represents i am fine with that. I know first
> hand the hypocrisy of the English language. I am thinking more on the
> lines of English redux!

Elsewhere in this thread you've written...

"This is another quirk of some languages that befuddles me. What is
with the ongoing language pronunciation tutorial some languages have
turned into -- French is a good example (*puke*). Do you *really* need
those squiggly lines and cues above letters so you won't forget how to
pronounce a word. Pure ridiculousness!"

And, in fact, there have been schemes to simplify written English such
as Initial Teaching Alphabet:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Initial_Teaching_Alphabet

I imagine that this is the first time you've heard of it, though.

[...]

> We already live in a Orwellian language nightmare. Have you seen much
> change to the English language in your lifetime? i haven't.

Then you aren't paying attention. Especially in places where English
isn't the first language, there is a lot of modification of English
that is then considered an acceptable version of the language - this
is one way in which languages change.

Elsewhere, you wrote this...

"What makes you think that diversity is lost with a single language? I
say more pollination will occur and the seed will be more potent since
all parties will contribute to the same pool."

Parties are contributing to the same language already. It's just not
the only language that they contribute to.

>From what you've written, I get the impression that you don't really
know any other languages, don't have much experience with non-native
users of your own language, are oblivious to how languages change, and
are oblivious to the existence of various attempts to "improve" the
English language in the past in ways similar to those you appear to
advocate, albeit incoherently: do you want to know how to pronounce a
word from its spelling or not?

Add to that a complete lack of appreciation for the relationship
between language and culture, along with a perverted application of
evolutionary models to such things, and you come across as a lazy
cultural supremacist who regards everyone else's language as
superfluous apart from his own. If you're just having problems with
UnicodeDecodeError, at least have the honesty to say so instead of
parading something not too short of bigotry in a public forum.

Paul


From mike at mhuffman.com  Sun Aug 30 11:39:37 2009
From: mike at mhuffman.com (Mike)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 08:39:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: How to install setuptools...egg?
References: 
Message-ID: <6ee4ad7f-7e78-42cb-8f0b-198f32c08b6d@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

> I would like to install setuptools for Python2.6 on Windows.

1. Download setuptools-0.6c9-py2.6.egg
2. Download setuptools-0.6c9.tar.gz
3. Use 7-zip from  http://www.7-zip.org/ to extract ez_setup.py from
setuptools-0.6c9.tar.gz
4. In a directory that contains setuptools-0.6c9-py2.6.egg and
ez_setup.py run the command python ez_setup.py
5. Add C:\Python26\Scripts to your path to run easy_install

Mike


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 12:00:07 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 09:00:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	 
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 30, 10:09 am, Paul Boddie  wrote:
> On 30 Aug, 14:49, r  wrote:

Then you aren't paying attention.
...(snip: defamation of character)

Hold the phone Paul you are calling me a retarded bigot and i don't
much appreciate that. I think you are completely misinterpreting my
post. i and i ask you read it again especially this part...

[quote]
BUT STOP!, before i go any further i want to respond to what i know
will be condemnation from the sociology nuts out there. Yes
multiculturalism is great, yes art is great, but if you can't see how
the ability to communicate is severely damperd by multi-languages
then
you only *feel* with your heart but you apparently have no ability to
reason with your mind intelligently.
[/quote]

I don't really care what language we adopt as long as we choose *only*
one and then seek to perfect it to perfection. And also that this
*one* language use simplicity as it's model. English sucks, but
compared to traditional Chinese and Egyptian Hieroglyphs it's a god
send.

I think a good language would combine the best of the popular world
languages into one super language for all. The same thing Python did
for programming. But of course programming is not as evolved as
natural language so we will need multiple programming languages for
quite some time...

And just as the internet enabled worldwide instant communication, the
unification of all languages will cause a Renaissance of sorts for
coloaboration which in turn will beget innovation of enormous
proportions. The ability to communicate unhampered is in everyones
best interest.

---------------------------------------
History Lesson and the laws of Nature
---------------------------------------
Look history is great but i am more concerned with the future. Learn
the lessons of the past, move on, and live for the future. If you want
to study the hair styles of Neanderthal women be my guest. Anybody
with half a brain knows the one world government and language is
coming. Why stop evolution, it is our destiny and it will improve the
human experience.

[Warning: facts of life ahead!!]
I'll bet you weep and moan for the native Americans who where
slaughtered don't you? Yes they suffered a tragic death as have many
poor souls throughout history and yes they also contributed to human
history and experience, but their time had come and they can only
blame themselfs for it. They stopped evolving, and when you stop
evolving you get left behind. We can't win wars with bows and arrows
in the 21st century, we can't fly to the moon on horse back, And you
damn sure can smoke a peace pipe and make all the bad things
disappear.

Nature can be cruel and unjust at times, but progress is absolute and
that is all mother nature (and myself to some extent) really cares
about. Without the survival of the fittest nothing you see, feel,
touch, or experience would be. The universe would collapse upon itself
and cease to exist. The system works because it is perfect. Don't
knock that which you do not understand, or, you refuse to understand..

We are but pawns in an ever evolving higher order entity. And when
this entity no longer has a use for us, we will be history...



From sccolbert at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 12:07:58 2009
From: sccolbert at gmail.com (Chris Colbert)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 12:07:58 -0400
Subject: Permanently adding to the Python path in Ubuntu
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <7f014ea60908300907l3d21fcb6v9ed0c51180161338@mail.gmail.com>

I don't want to have to modify the path in each and every application.

There has to be a way to do this...

Personally, I don't agree with the Debian maintainers in the order
they import anyway; it should be simple for me to overshadow system
packagers. But that's another story.

P.S. my first name is Steven!

Cheers,

Chris

On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 11:51 PM, Sean DiZazzo wrote:
> On Aug 29, 5:39?pm, Chris Colbert  wrote:
>> I'm having an issue with sys.path on Ubuntu. I want some of my home
>> built packages to overshadow the system packages. Namely, I have built
>> numpy 1.3.0 from source with atlas support, and I need it to
>> overshadow the system numpy 1.2.1 which I had to drag along as a
>> dependency for other stuff. I have numpy 1.3.0 installed into
>> /usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/. The issue is that this
>> directory is added to the path after the
>> /usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/ is added, so python doesnt see my
>> version of numpy.
>>
>> I have been combating this with a line in my .bashrc file:
>>
>> export PYTHONPATH=/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages
>>
>> So when I start python from the shell, everything works fine.
>>
>> Problems show up when python is not executed from the shell, and thus
>> the path variable is never exported. This can occur when I have
>> launcher in the gnome panel or i'm executing from within wing-ide.
>>
>> Is there a way to fix this so that the local dist-packages is added to
>> sys.path before the system directory ALWAYS? I can do this by editing
>> site.py but I think it's kind of bad form to do it this way. I feel
>> there has to be a way to do this without root privileges.
>>
>> Any ideas?
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Chris
>
> I think you can modify sys.path inside your application.
>
> Maybe this will work (at the top of your script):
>
>
> import sys
> sys.path[0] = "/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages"
>
> import numpy
>
>
> PS. ?Say hi to Steven for me!
>
> ~Sean
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From lists at cheimes.de  Sun Aug 30 12:29:22 2009
From: lists at cheimes.de (Christian Heimes)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 18:29:22 +0200
Subject: Permanently adding to the Python path in Ubuntu
In-Reply-To: <7f014ea60908291739r70f724fbw626c32265198b5ae@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7f014ea60908291739r70f724fbw626c32265198b5ae@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A9AA8E2.50201@cheimes.de>

Chris Colbert wrote:
> Is there a way to fix this so that the local dist-packages is added to
> sys.path before the system directory ALWAYS? I can do this by editing
> site.py but I think it's kind of bad form to do it this way. I feel
> there has to be a way to do this without root privileges.
> 
> Any ideas?

Have you read my blog entry about my PEP 370?
http://lipyrary.blogspot.com/2009/08/how-to-add-new-module-search-path.html

Christian


From szport at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 12:37:49 2009
From: szport at gmail.com (zaur)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 09:37:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
References: 
	 
	
	
	<0022fef9$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	 
	<0023d927$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<051da35f-efc2-4c4a-9b87-6d7db59c4529@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <1345f68a-9f1f-4314-8b5d-dbd60a1b37a9@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On 30 ???, 15:49, Carl Banks  wrote:
> I think they (Derek and zaur) expect integer objects to be mutable.
>
> It's pretty common for people coming from "name is a location in
> memory" languages to have this conception of integers as an
> intermediate stage of learning Python's object system. ?Even once
> they've understood "everything is an object" and "names are references
> to objects" they won't have learned all the nuances of the system, and
> might still (not unreasonably) think integer objects could be mutable.
>
> However, it'd be nice if all these people didn't post here whining
> about how surprising and unintuitive it is and instead just said, "ah,
> integers are immutable, got it", quietly to themselves.
>
> Carl Banks

Very expressive.

I use python many years. And many years I just took python int as they
are.
I am also not think about names as reference to objects and so on.

So this isn't the case.


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Sun Aug 30 12:40:31 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 18:40:31 +0200
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
In-Reply-To: 
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <200908301840.31248.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Sunday 30 August 2009 15:37:19 r wrote:

> What makes you think that diversity is lost with a single language? 

I am quite sure of this - it goes deeper than mere regional differences - your 
first language forms the way you think -  and if we all get taught the same 
language, then on a very fundamental level we will all think in a similar 
way, and that loss will outweigh the normal regional or cultural differences 
on which you would have to rely for your diversity.

Philip Larkin has explained the effect better than I can:

"They f*ck you up, your mom and dad,
 They do not mean to, but they do.
 They fill you with the faults they had,
 And add some extra, just for you."

> I 
> say more pollination will occur and the seed will be more potent since
> all parties will contribute to the same pool. 

I think this effect, while it might be real, would be swamped by the loss of 
the real diversity.

> Sure there will be 
> idioms of different regions but that is to be expected. But at least
> then i could make international crank calls without the language
> barrier ;-)

You can make crank calls _now_ without a language barrier - heavy breathing is 
a universally understood idiom.
:-)

- Hendrik


From code at pizzashack.org  Sun Aug 30 12:40:51 2009
From: code at pizzashack.org (Derek Martin)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 11:40:51 -0500
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
In-Reply-To: <0023d927$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
References: 
	
	
	
	<0022fef9$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<0023d927$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <20090830164050.GO20434@dragontoe.org>

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 10:34:17AM +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> > He's saying that instead of thinking the integer value of 3 itself being
> > the object, he expected Python's object model would behave as though the
> > entity m is the object, and that object exists to contain an integer
> > value.                                                                        
> What is "the entity m"?

The entity m is an object.  Objects, in computer science,  are
abstractions created by humans to make solving a large class of
problems easier to think about.  An object is a piece of data, upon
which you can perform programmatic actions, which are grouped together
with the values contained in that data.  It's an abstraction which
translates, in the physical sense, to a group of memory locations with
a reference in a symbol table.

> Ah wait, I think I get it... is m a memory location? 

No, it isn't.  It is an abstraction in the programmer's mind that sits
on top of some memory.  For that matter, the memory location is
itself an abstraction.  It is not a memory location, but a particular
series of circuits which either have current or don't.  It is simply
convenient for us to think of it as a memory location.

> That would be how Pascal and C (and presumably other languages)
> work, but not Python or Ruby or even VB (so I'm told) and similar
> languages.

Well, except that, in fact, they do work that way.  They simply
present a different abstraction to the programmer than C or other
languages.  They have to work that way, at the lowest level, because
that is how the hardware works.

> > Numbers are fundamentally different from objects.  The number 3 is a
> > symbol of the idea of the existence of three countable objects.  It can
> > not be changed 
> 
> Doesn't this contradict your claim that people expect to be able to 
> mutate numbers? That you should be able to do this?

This is where you continually fail.  There is no contradiction at all.
What I'm saying is that in my view, numbers CAN'T mutate; they are not
objects!  They are values, which are a means of describing objects.
Only the objects which hold the values can mutate.  However in Python
they don't, and can't, but they EASILY could with a different design.
You, however, seem to be completely stuck on Python's behavior with
regard to numeric objects, and fail to see past that.  Python's model
is only one abstraction, among multiple possibilities.

> You can't have it both ways -- if people think of objects as
> mutable, and think of numbers as not-objects and unchanging, then
> why oh why would they find Python's numeric behaviour to be
> unintuitive?

Because in Python, they ARE objects, which they think should be
mutable, but in Python when they try to change the *value* of the
object, they don't get the same object with a different value; they
get a completely different object.  This is counter to their
experience.  If you don't like the Buick example, then use algebra.
We've been down this road before, so I'm probably wasting my time...
In algebra, you don't assign a name to a value, you assign a value to
a variable.  You can, in a different problem, assign a different value
to that variable, but the variable didn't change; only its value did.
In Python, it's the opposite.

> What I think is that some people, such as you and Zaur, have *learned* 
> from C-like languages that numbers are mutable not-objects, and you've 
> learned it so well that you've forgotten that you ever needed to learn 
> it. 

No, this is precisely why I provided the real-world examples -- to
illustrate to you that there was no need to learn it in computer
science, because the concept applies in the real world quite
intuitively in every-day situations.  I think rather it is YOU who
have learned the concept in Python, and since then fail to imagine any
other possible interpretation of an object, and somehow have
completely forgotten the examples you encountered before Python, from
algebra and from the real world.

> Human beings are excellent at reifying abstract things into (imaginary) 
> objects. 

I don't know what the word "reifying" means, but irrelevant.  Such
things are abstract, and in fact not objects.

> No, the length of a car is an object which *is* a length, it doesn't 
> *have* a length.

It is not an object.  It is an abstract idea used as a description of
an object.

> None of this explains why you would expect to be able to mutate the
> value three and turn it into four.

Again, you fail.  I *DO NOT* expect that.  I expect to be able to
mutate the object m, changing its value from 3 to 4.

> I think you have confused yourself. 

No Steven, on this topic, it is only you who have been confused,
perpetually.  Although, it could be said that Python's idea of what an
object is also is itself confused...  Python (or at least the docs)
actually refrains from formally defining an object.  The docs only say
that an object has an identity, a name, and a value.  Well, OK... so 3
is an object.  You can bind a name to it... except that's not exactly
correct.  You can bind many names to it, and every time you write
something like:

m = 3

You are binding another name to the same object.  That's intuitive?
So you say.  But what is the value of 3?  Is it 3?  How can the value
of an object be the object itself?  If that were true, then the value
of the object is an object, which has a value... you have an infinite
recursion.  It's a paradox.  How could you get any more unintuitive
than that?!

In practice it's not a paradox, because the values inside numeric
objects are *not* objects.  They're numerical constants, as used by
the hardware (excepting that they are just an abstraction on top of
current, as noted before).  Python's model breaks down at that point;
it is not so with most other types of objects... their values remain
objects.  And *that* is inconsistent.  The same is true of character
data as for numeric data.  And that, I believe, is why Java treats
these as atomic data types, rather than as objects.  Because they are,
in fact.  They are types of data that the hardware knows how to deal
with, directly.  Everything else is not.

-- 
Derek D. Martin
http://www.pizzashack.org/
GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D

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From nobody at nowhere.com  Sun Aug 30 12:42:40 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 17:42:40 +0100
Subject: break unichr instead of fix ord?
References: <2ad21a79-4a6c-42a7-8923-beb304bb5e99@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4A95A4D1.9060008@v.loewis.de>
	
	<4A961EE1.9010103@v.loewis.de>
	<65e6c430-9dc4-4a90-8448-f8f587d19750@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4a979172$0$11759$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de>
	
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 06:54:21 +0200, Dieter Maurer wrote:

>> What you propose would break the property "unichr(i) always returns
>> a string of length one, if it returns anything at all".
> 
> But getting a "ValueError" in some builds (and not in others)
> is rather worse than getting unicode strings of different length....

Not necessarily. If the code assumes that unichr() always returns a
single-character string, it will silently produce bogus results when
unichr() returns a pair of surrogates. An exception is usually preferable
to silently producing bad data.

If unichr() returns a surrogate pair, what is e.g. unichr(i).isalpha()
supposed to do?

Using surrogates is fine in an external representation (UTF-16), but it
doesn't make sense as an internal representation.

Think: why do people use wchar_t[] rather than a char[] encoded in UTF-8?
Because a wchar_t[] allows you to index *characters*, which you can't do
with a multi-byte encoding. You can't do it with a multi-*word* encoding
either.

UCS-2 and UTF-16 are superficially so similar that people forget that
they're completely different beasts. UCS-2 is fixed-length, UTF-16 is
variable-length. This makes UTF-16 semantically much closer to UTF-8 than
to UCS-2 or UCS-4.

If your wchar_t is 16 bits, the only sane solution is to forego support
for characters outside of the BMP.

The alternative is to process wide strings in exactly the same way that
you process narrow (mbcs) strings; e.g. extracting character N requires
iterating over the string from the beginning until you have counted N-1
characters. This provides no benefit over using narrow strings except for
a slight performance gain from halving the number of iterations. You still
end up with indexing being O(n) rather than O(1).



From vbabiy86 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 12:56:07 2009
From: vbabiy86 at gmail.com (Vitaly Babiy)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 12:56:07 -0400
Subject: Thread Pool
Message-ID: <8abf49ac0908300956x30d41685xfa1a383adb466aea@mail.gmail.com>

Hey,
Any one know of a good thread pool library. I have tried a few but they
don't seem to clean up after them selfs well.

Thanks,
Vitaly Babiy
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From rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk  Sun Aug 30 12:57:23 2009
From: rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk (Rhodri James)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 17:57:23 +0100
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
In-Reply-To: <1345f68a-9f1f-4314-8b5d-dbd60a1b37a9@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	
	
	<0022fef9$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<0023d927$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	<051da35f-efc2-4c4a-9b87-6d7db59c4529@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<1345f68a-9f1f-4314-8b5d-dbd60a1b37a9@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 17:37:49 +0100, zaur  wrote:

> On 30 ???, 15:49, Carl Banks  wrote:
>> I think they (Derek and zaur) expect integer objects to be mutable.
>>
>> It's pretty common for people coming from "name is a location in
>> memory" languages to have this conception of integers as an
>> intermediate stage of learning Python's object system. ?Even once
>> they've understood "everything is an object" and "names are references
>> to objects" they won't have learned all the nuances of the system, and
>> might still (not unreasonably) think integer objects could be mutable.
>>
>> However, it'd be nice if all these people didn't post here whining
>> about how surprising and unintuitive it is and instead just said, "ah,
>> integers are immutable, got it", quietly to themselves.
>>
>> Carl Banks
>
> Very expressive.
>
> I use python many years. And many years I just took python int as they
> are.
> I am also not think about names as reference to objects and so on.

Then you are doomed to surprises such as this.

-- 
Rhodri James *-* Wildebeest Herder to the Masses


From sccolbert at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 13:03:19 2009
From: sccolbert at gmail.com (Chris Colbert)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 13:03:19 -0400
Subject: Permanently adding to the Python path in Ubuntu
In-Reply-To: <4A9AA8E2.50201@cheimes.de>
References: <7f014ea60908291739r70f724fbw626c32265198b5ae@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A9AA8E2.50201@cheimes.de>
Message-ID: <7f014ea60908301003q5f28776q88f5603a5f885358@mail.gmail.com>

Great! That was the solution I was looking for. Thanks!

Chris

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 12:29 PM, Christian Heimes wrote:
> Chris Colbert wrote:
>> Is there a way to fix this so that the local dist-packages is added to
>> sys.path before the system directory ALWAYS? I can do this by editing
>> site.py but I think it's kind of bad form to do it this way. I feel
>> there has to be a way to do this without root privileges.
>>
>> Any ideas?
>
> Have you read my blog entry about my PEP 370?
> http://lipyrary.blogspot.com/2009/08/how-to-add-new-module-search-path.html
>
> Christian
>


From code at pizzashack.org  Sun Aug 30 13:04:45 2009
From: code at pizzashack.org (Derek Martin)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 12:04:45 -0500
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
In-Reply-To: <725bcd4c-01ed-489d-baa4-288a5c492831@m20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	
	
	<0022fef9$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<725bcd4c-01ed-489d-baa4-288a5c492831@m20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20090830170445.GP20434@dragontoe.org>

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 03:42:06AM -0700, Paul McGuire wrote:
> Python binds values to names. Always. 

No, actually, it doesn't.  It binds *objects* to names.  This
distinction is subtle, but important, as it is the crux of why this is
confusing to people.  If Python is to say that objects have values,
then the object can not *be* the value that it has, because that is a
paradoxical self-reference.  It's an object, not a value.

> Is it any odder that 3 is an object than that the string literal
> "Hello, World!" is an object?  

Yes.  Because 3 is a fundamental bit of data that the hardware knows
how to deal with, requiring no higher level abstractions for the
programmer to use it (though certainly, a programming language can
provide them, if it is convenient).  "Hello, World!" is not.  They are
fundamentally different in that way.

> For a Python long-timer like Mr. D'Aprano, I don't think he even
> consciously thinks about this kind of thing any more; his intuition
> has aligned with the Python stars, so he extrapolates from the OP's
> suggestion to the resulting aberrant behavior, as he posted it.

I'm sure that's the case.  But it's been explained to him before, and
yet he still can't seem to comprehend that not everyone immediately
gets this behavior, and that this is not without good reason.

So, since it *has* been explained to him before, it's somewhat
astonishing that he would reply to zaur's post, saying that the
behavior zaur described would necessarily lead to the insane behavior
that Steven described.  When he makes such statements, it's tantamount
to calling the OP an idiot.  I find that offensive, especially
considering that Steven's post displayed an overwhelming lack of
understanding of what the OP was trying to say.

> You can dispute and rail at this core language concept if you like,
> but I think the more entrenched you become in the position that "'3 is
> an object' is bizarre", the less enjoyable your Python work will be.

While I did genuinely find the behavior bizarre when I encountered it,
and honestly still do, I learned it quickly and moved past it.  I'm
not suggesting that it be changed, and I don't feel particularly
strongly that it even should change.  It's not so much the language
I'm railing against, but the humans...

-- 
Derek D. Martin
http://www.pizzashack.org/
GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D

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From code at pizzashack.org  Sun Aug 30 13:27:57 2009
From: code at pizzashack.org (Derek Martin)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 12:27:57 -0500
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
In-Reply-To: <71e92f9c-4094-409d-95d7-9836737d4dc2@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	
	
	<0022fef9$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<725bcd4c-01ed-489d-baa4-288a5c492831@m20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	<71e92f9c-4094-409d-95d7-9836737d4dc2@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20090830172757.GQ20434@dragontoe.org>

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 03:52:36AM -0700, Paul McGuire wrote:
> > It is surprising how many times we
> > think things are "intuitive" when we really mean they are "familiar".
>
> Of course, just as I was typing my response, Steve D'Aprano beat me to
> the punch.

Intuition means "The power or faculty of attaining to direct knowledge
or cognition without evident rational thought and inference."  Very
naturally, things which behave in a familiar manner are intuitive.
Familiar and intuitive are very closely tied.  Correspondingly, when
things look like something familiar, but behave differently, they are
naturally unintuitive.

-- 
Derek D. Martin
http://www.pizzashack.org/
GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D

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From nobody at nowhere.com  Sun Aug 30 13:30:48 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 18:30:48 +0100
Subject: (Simple?) Unicode Question
References: <332972a20908270939m57be4e51tc5785b880ec642b3@mail.gmail.com>
	
	
	<002269cb$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<0023693f$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 02:36:49 +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

>>> So long as your terminal has a sensible encoding, and you have a good
>>> quality font, you should be able to print any string you can create.
>> 
>> UTF-8 isn't a particularly sensible encoding for terminals.
> 
> Did I mention UTF-8?
> 
> Out of curiosity, why do you say that UTF-8 isn't sensible for terminals?

I don't think I've ever seen a terminal (whether an emulator running on a
PC or a hardware terminal) which supports anything like the entire Unicode
repertoire, along with right-to-left writing, complex scripts, etc. Even
support for double-width characters is uncommon.

If your terminal can't handle anything outside of ISO-8859-1, there isn't
any advantage to using UTF-8, and some disadvantages; e.g. a typical Unix
tty driver will delete the last *byte* from the input buffer when you
press backspace (Linux 2.6.* has the IUTF8 flag, but this is non-standard).

Historically, terminal I/O has tended to revolve around unibyte encodings,
with everything except the endpoints being encoding-agnostic. Anything
which falls outside of that is a dog's breakfast; it's no coincidence
that the word for "messed-up text" (arising from an encoding mismatch)
was borrowed from Japanese (mojibake).

Life is simpler if you can use a unibyte encoding. Apart from anything
else, the failure modes tend to be harmless. E.g. you get the wrong glyph
rather than two glyphs where you expected one. On a 7-bit channel, you get
the wrong printable character rather than a control character (this is why
ISO-8859-* reserves \x80-\x9F as control codes rather than using them as
printable characters).

>> And "Unicode font" is an oxymoron. You can merge a whole bunch of fonts
>> together and stuff them into a TTF file; that doesn't make them "a
>> font", though.
> 
> I never mentioned "Unicode font" either. In any case, there's no reason 
> why a skillful designer can't make a single font which covers the entire 
> Unicode range in a consistent style.

Consistency between unrelated scripts is neither realistic nor
desirable.

E.g. Latin fonts tend to use uniform stroke widths unless they're
specifically designed to look like handwriting, whereas Han fonts tend to
prefer variable-width strokes which reflect the direction.

>> The main advantage of using Unicode internally is that you can associate
>> encodings with the specific points where data needs to be converted
>> to/from bytes, rather than having to carry the encoding details around
>> the program.
> 
> Surely the main advantage of Unicode is that it gives you a full and 
> consistent range of characters not limited to the 128 characters provided 
> by ASCII?

Nothing stops you from using other encodings, or from using multiple
encodings. But using multiple encodings means keeping track of the
encodings. This isn't impossible, and it may produce better results (e.g.
no information loss from Han unification), but it can be a lot more work.



From code at pizzashack.org  Sun Aug 30 13:36:17 2009
From: code at pizzashack.org (Derek Martin)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 12:36:17 -0500
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
In-Reply-To: <0221274c-994d-4130-93bb-a5fb528e7b83@x6g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	
	
	<0022fef9$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<0221274c-994d-4130-93bb-a5fb528e7b83@x6g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <20090830173617.GR20434@dragontoe.org>

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 04:26:54AM -0700, Carl Banks wrote:
> On Aug 30, 12:33?am, Derek Martin  wrote:
> [snip rant]

I was not ranting.  I was explaining a perspective.

> > THAT is why Python's behavior with regard to numerical objects is
> > not intuitive, and frankly bizzare to me, and I dare say to others who
> > find it so.
> >
> > Yes, that's right. ?BIZZARE.
> 
> You mean it's different from how you first learned it.

I mean exactly that I find it "strikingly out of the ordinary; odd,
extravagant, or eccentric in style or mode" as Webster's defines the
word.  Whether it is so because it is different from how I first
learned it, or for some other reason, it is so nonetheless.  I have
elsewhere gone into great detail about why I find it so.  If you need
it to be simple, then feel free to simplify it.

-- 
Derek D. Martin
http://www.pizzashack.org/
GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D

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From brenNOSPAMbarn at NObrenSPAMbarn.net  Sun Aug 30 13:43:42 2009
From: brenNOSPAMbarn at NObrenSPAMbarn.net (OKB (not okblacke))
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 17:43:42 GMT
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
References: 
	
	
	
	<0022fef9$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<725bcd4c-01ed-489d-baa4-288a5c492831@m20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Derek Martin wrote:

> If Python is to say that objects have values,
> then the object can not *be* the value that it has, because that is a
> paradoxical self-reference.  It's an object, not a value.

    	But does it say that objects have values?  I don't see where you 
get this idea.  Consider this code:

class A(object):
    	pass
 	
class B(object):
    	x = 0

a = A()
b = B()
b2 = B()
b2.x = a

    	What is the "value" of the object now bound to the name "a"?  What 
about the "value" of the object bound to b, or b2?

    	I would say that in Python, objects do not have values.  Objects 
are values.

-- 
--OKB (not okblacke)
Brendan Barnwell
"Do not follow where the path may lead.  Go, instead, where there is
no path, and leave a trail."
	--author unknown


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 13:48:24 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 10:48:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: IDE for python similar to visual basic
References: <2a17396c-4d6d-4cb0-a314-208054a2f774@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6cb48259-3e42-4efe-b856-7b0f1a141024@o21g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 28, 5:19?pm, qwe rty  wrote:
> i have been searching for am IDE for python that is similar to Visual
> Basic but had no luck.shall you help me please?

Hello qwe rty,

I remember my first days with GUI programming and thinking to myself;
how on earth can i write GUI code without a MS style GUI builder? Not
to long after that i was coding up some pretty spectacular GUI's from
nothing more than source code and loving it.

[Warning: the following is only opinion!]
I think a point and click GUI builder (although some may disagree) is
actually detrimental to your programming skills. The ability to
visualize the GUI only from the source code as you read it, is as
important to a programmer as site reading sheet music is to a
musician. And I like to program with the training wheels off.


From rozzin at geekspace.com  Sun Aug 30 13:54:17 2009
From: rozzin at geekspace.com (Joshua Judson Rosen)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 13:54:17 -0400
Subject: Non-deterministic computing (was: What python can NOT do?)
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	
	<00223e3f$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
Message-ID: <87ab1h192u.fsf_-_@slice.rozzin.com>

Steven D'Aprano  writes:
>
> On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 05:37:34 +0200, Tomasz Rola wrote:
> 
> > My private list of things that when implemented in Python would be
> > ugly to the point of calling it difficult:
> > 
> > 1. AMB operator - my very favourite. In one sentence, either language
> > allows one to do it easily or one would not want to do it (in an ugly
> > way).
> > 
> > http://www.randomhacks.net/articles/2005/10/11/amb-operator
> 
> 
> Fascinating, but I don't exactly see how that's actually *useful*. It 
> strikes me of combining all the benefits of COME FROM with the potential 
> performance of Bogosort, but maybe I'm being harsh. 

There's a chapter on this (non-deterministic computing in general,
and `amb' in particular) in Abelson's & Sussman's book,
`Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs':

    http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book-Z-H-28.html#%_sec_4.3

It's an interesting read (the chapter, as well as the rest of the book).

> On the other hand, it sounds rather like Prolog-like declarative 
> programming. I fear that, like Prolog, it risks massive performance 
> degradation if you don't apply the constraints in the right order.

One of the classic arguments in the other direction is that
imperative programming (as is common in Python ;)) risks
massive *incorrect results* if you don't apply the side-effects
in the right order :)

-- 
Don't be afraid to ask (Lf.((Lx.xx) (Lr.f(rr)))).


From nobody at nowhere.com  Sun Aug 30 13:54:22 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 18:54:22 +0100
Subject: What python can NOT do?
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	<4a998465$0$1637$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 23:07:17 +0000, exarkun wrote:

>>>    Personally, I consider Python to be a good language held back by
>>>too-close ties to a naive interpreter implementation and the lack
>>>of a formal standard for the language.
>>
>>Name one language under active development that has not been harmed by a
>>formal standard.  (I think C doesn't count -- there was relatively little
>>development of C after the standards process started.)
> 
> I think you must mean "harmed by a formal standard more than it has been 
> helped", since that's clearly the interesting thing.
> 
> And it's a pretty difficult question to answer.  How do you quantify the 
> harm done to a language by a standarization process?  How do you 
> quantify the help?  These are extremely difficult things to measure 
> objectively.

For a start, you have to decide how to weight the different groups of
users.

For an application which is designed for end users and will be in a
permanent state of flux, dealing with revisions to the language or its
standard libraries are likely to be a small part of the ongoing
development effort.

For libraries or middleware which need to maintain a stable interface, or
for code which needs extensive testing, documentation, audits, etc, even a
minor update can incur significant costs.

Users in the latter group will prefer languages with a stable and rigorous
specification, and will tend to view any flexibility granted to the
language implementors as an inconvenience.



From rt8396 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 14:01:21 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 11:01:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	
	
	
Message-ID: <8252056f-399d-4da5-a1da-d09468eaf149@l35g2000vba.googlegroups.com>

Would someone please point me to one example where this sociology or
anthropology crap has ever improved our day to day lives or moved use
into the future with great innovation? A life spend studying this
mumbo-jumbo is a complete waste of time when many other far more
important and *real* problems need solving!

To me this is nothing more than educated people going antiquing on a
Saturday afternoon! All they are going to find is more useless,
overpriced junk that clogs up the closets of society!


From nobody at nowhere.com  Sun Aug 30 14:08:34 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 19:08:34 +0100
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	<4a9a0988$0$1669$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
Message-ID: 

On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 22:14:55 -0700, John Nagle wrote:

>     (I wish the HTML standards people would do the same.  HTML 5
> should have been ASCII only (with the "&" escapes if desired)
> or Unicode.  No "Latin-1", no upper code pages, no JIS, etc.)

IOW, you want the HTML standards to continue to be meaningless documents,
and "HTML" to continue to mean "what browsers support".

Because that would be the likely consequence of such a stance. Japanese
websites will continue to use Shift-JIS, Japanese cellphones (or
Scandanavian cellphones aimed at the Japanese market, for that matter)
will continue to render websites which use Shift-JIS, and HTML 5 will be
just as much a pure academic exercise as all of the other HTML standards.



From ivanko.rus at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 14:13:12 2009
From: ivanko.rus at gmail.com (ivanko.rus at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 18:13:12 +0000
Subject: a popen question. Please help
In-Reply-To: <473423.84282.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000e0cd20f80cbfb7e04725fde8e@google.com>

First, I think you should use subprocess.Popen (it's recommended by  
PEP-324) instead of os.popen. For example:

p = subprocess.Popen(["top"], stdout = PIPE)
p.stdout.readlines()

And to write to stdin (in your case "q") you can use p.stdin.write("q"), or  
terminate the process with p.terminate(), or just specify the -n option  
(the number of iterations) to the value you desire. It's done in that way:  
subprocess.Popen(["top","-n 1"], stdout=PIPE)
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From nobody at nowhere.com  Sun Aug 30 14:13:38 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 19:13:38 +0100
Subject: Why does this group have so much spam?
References: <7294bf8b-9819-4b6d-92b2-afc1c8042a06@x6g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<7l1wem586nhf.c8spq9wpqg99.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 11:18:35 +0200, David wrote:

>> So much of it could be removed even by simple keyword filtering.
> 
> I think there is only one final solution to the spam pestilence: a tiny tax
> on email and posts.
> Spammers send hundreds of thousands of emails/posts a day and a tax of
> 0.0001$ each does not harm normal users but discurages spammers.

Apart from the impossibility of implementing such a tax, it isn't going to
discourage spammers when the tax will be paid by the owner of the
compromised PC from which they're sending their spam.

If you want to avoid usenet spam and don't want to filter it yourself,
find a provider with more aggressive spam filter. Ultimately, it's up to
the person running the news server as to which posts they will or will not
accept.



From code at pizzashack.org  Sun Aug 30 14:21:09 2009
From: code at pizzashack.org (Derek Martin)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 13:21:09 -0500
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
	
	<0022fef9$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<725bcd4c-01ed-489d-baa4-288a5c492831@m20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <20090830182109.GS20434@dragontoe.org>

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 05:43:42PM +0000, OKB (not okblacke) wrote:
> Derek Martin wrote:
> 
> > If Python is to say that objects have values,
> > then the object can not *be* the value that it has, because that is a
> > paradoxical self-reference.  It's an object, not a value.
> 
>     	But does it say that objects have values?  I don't see where you 
> get this idea.  

Yes, it does say that.  Read the docs. :)

http://docs.python.org/reference/datamodel.html

(paragraph 2)


> class A(object):
>     	pass

> a = A()
>
>     	What is the "value" of the object now bound to the name "a"

In Python, the value of objects depends on the context in which it is
evaluated.  But when you do that, you're not getting a value that is
equivalent to object, but of some property of the object.  The object
has no intrinsic value until it is evaluated.  In that sense, and as
used by the python docs, I would say that the value of the object a is
"true" -- you can use it in boolean expressions, and it will evaluate
as such.  

>       I would say that in Python, objects do not have values.
> Objects are values.

You can say that, but if you do you're using some definition of
"value" that's only applicable in Python and programming languages
which behave the same way.  It would be more correct to say that an
object is a collection of arbitrary data, which has a type and an
identity, and that the data in that collection has a value that
evaluates in context.  An object is an abstract collection of data,
and abstractions have no value.  You can not measure them in any
meaningful way.  The data contained in the collection does, however,
have a value.  When you reference an object in an expression, what you
get is not the value of the object, but the value of some peice of
data about, or contained in, that object.

It is this property of objects, that the value evaluated depends on
the context, that I think demonstrates that an object is *not* a
value.  Values never change, as we've said in this thread: 3 is always
3.  'a' is always 'a'.  But an object x can evaluate to many different
values, depending on how it is used.  The definition of the object
would need to allow for it to do so, but Python allows that, and even
encourages it.

-- 
Derek D. Martin
http://www.pizzashack.org/
GPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D

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From rolfpw at online.de  Sun Aug 30 14:33:41 2009
From: rolfpw at online.de (Rolf)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 20:33:41 +0200
Subject: How to install setuptools...egg?
In-Reply-To: <6ee4ad7f-7e78-42cb-8f0b-198f32c08b6d@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<6ee4ad7f-7e78-42cb-8f0b-198f32c08b6d@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Mike schrieb:
>> I would like to install setuptools for Python2.6 on Windows.
> 
> 1. Download setuptools-0.6c9-py2.6.egg
> 2. Download setuptools-0.6c9.tar.gz
> 3. Use 7-zip from  http://www.7-zip.org/ to extract ez_setup.py from
> setuptools-0.6c9.tar.gz
> 4. In a directory that contains setuptools-0.6c9-py2.6.egg and
> ez_setup.py run the command python ez_setup.py
> 5. Add C:\Python26\Scripts to your path to run easy_install
> 
> Mike
Thank you very much. Your recipe did the job.

Rolf


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Sun Aug 30 14:37:38 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 30 Aug 2009 18:37:38 GMT
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
References: 
	
	
	
	<0022fef9$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<725bcd4c-01ed-489d-baa4-288a5c492831@m20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <00244a72$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 12:04:45 -0500, Derek Martin wrote:

> On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 03:42:06AM -0700, Paul McGuire wrote:
>> Python binds values to names. Always.
> 
> No, actually, it doesn't.  It binds *objects* to names.  This
> distinction is subtle, but important, as it is the crux of why this is
> confusing to people.  If Python is to say that objects have values, then
> the object can not *be* the value that it has, because that is a
> paradoxical self-reference.  It's an object, not a value.

You're thinking about this too hard and tying yourself in knots trying to 
philosophise about it. In context of OO programming, the distinction 
between objects and values is fuzzy, and it depends on the context: e.g. 
if I have this:

class MyInt(int):
    pass

five = MyInt(5)
five.thingy = 23

is thingy part of the value of the object or not?

For most objects, at least for built-ins, the object *is* the value. (For 
custom classes you create yourself, you are free to do anything you 
like.) There's no need to try to distinguish between the object 3 and the 
value of the object 3: you're looking for a distinction that simply 
doesn't matter.


>> Is it any odder that 3 is an object than that the string literal
>> "Hello, World!" is an object?
> 
> Yes.  Because 3 is a fundamental bit of data that the hardware knows how
> to deal with, requiring no higher level abstractions for the programmer
> to use it (though certainly, a programming language can provide them, if
> it is convenient).  "Hello, World!" is not.  They are fundamentally
> different in that way.

Nonsense on two levels.

Firstly, in Python, *both* 3 and "Hello World" are complex objects, and 
neither are even close to the fundamental bits of data that the hardware 
can deal with.

Secondly, in low level languages, both are nothing but a sequence of 
bytes, and hardware knows how to deal with bytes regardless of whether 
they are interpreted by the human reader as 3 or "Hello World". The 
compiler might stop you from adding 2371 to "Hell" or "o Wor" but the 
hardware would be perfectly happy to do so if asked.



>> For a Python long-timer like Mr. D'Aprano, I don't think he even
>> consciously thinks about this kind of thing any more; his intuition has
>> aligned with the Python stars, so he extrapolates from the OP's
>> suggestion to the resulting aberrant behavior, as he posted it.
> 
> I'm sure that's the case.  But it's been explained to him before, and
> yet he still can't seem to comprehend that not everyone immediately gets
> this behavior, and that this is not without good reason.

Oh, it's obvious that not everybody gets this behaviour. I understand 
full well that it's different to some other languages, but not all, and 
so some people have their expectations violated.


> So, since it *has* been explained to him before, it's somewhat
> astonishing that he would reply to zaur's post, saying that the behavior
> zaur described would necessarily lead to the insane behavior that Steven
> described.  When he makes such statements, it's tantamount to calling
> the OP an idiot.

Given Python's programming model and implementation, the behaviour asked 
for *would* lead to the crazy behaviour I described.

(For the record, some early implementations of Fortran allowed the user 
to redefine literals like that, and I'm told that Lisp will do so too.)

So what Zaur presumably saw as a little tiny difference is in fact the 
tip of the iceberg of a fairly major difference. I don't know how smart 
he is, but I'd be willing to bet he hadn't thought through the full 
consequences of the behaviour he'd prefer, given Python's execution 
model. You could make a language that behaved as he wants, and I wouldn't 
be surprised if Java was it, but whatever it is, it isn't Python.


> I find that offensive, 

It's moments like this that I am reminded of a quote from Stephen Fry:

"You're offended? So f***ing what?"

Taking offense at an intellectual disagreement over the consequences of 
changes to a programming model is a good sign that you've got no rational 
argument to make and so have to resort to (real or pretend) outrage to 
win points.


> especially considering that
> Steven's post displayed an overwhelming lack of understanding of what
> the OP was trying to say.

I'm pretty sure I do understand what the OP was trying to say. He 
actually managed to communicate it very well. I think he expects to be 
able to do this:

>>> n = 1
>>> id(n)
123456
>>> n += 1
>>> assert n == 2
>>> id(n)
123456

Do you disagree? What do *you* think he wants?



-- 
Steven


From paul at boddie.org.uk  Sun Aug 30 15:05:54 2009
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 12:05:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	 
	
	
	 
	
Message-ID: <1ab2c088-bead-43fa-bf4a-3e7f4d84e871@g1g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>

On 30 Aug, 18:00, r  wrote:
>
> Hold the phone Paul you are calling me a retarded bigot and i don't
> much appreciate that. I think you are completely misinterpreting my
> post. i and i ask you read it again especially this part...

I didn't call you a "retarded bigot", and yet I did read your post.

[...]

> I don't really care what language we adopt as long as we choose *only*
> one and then seek to perfect it to perfection. And also that this
> *one* language use simplicity as it's model. English sucks, but
> compared to traditional Chinese and Egyptian Hieroglyphs it's a god
> send.

You don't care which language it is as long as it's the one you use.
That's what this sounds like, layered on top of what you've already
written (and what you write below). How about Esperanto? You have
heard of Esperanto, right? Or take your pick from the other artificial
languages - they're relatively popular in some places where English
isn't the natural first-choice foreign language.

[...]

> Look history is great but i am more concerned with the future. Learn
> the lessons of the past, move on, and live for the future. If you want
> to study the hair styles of Neanderthal women be my guest. Anybody
> with half a brain knows the one world government and language is
> coming. Why stop evolution, it is our destiny and it will improve the
> human experience.

Again, we witness a distortion of scientific concepts through the use
of political themes.

> [Warning: facts of life ahead!!]

Even Xah Lee's harshest critics must acknowledge that Xah delivers a
less offensive, more entertaining rant than this. At least Xah has
mastered the art of the expletive.

> I'll bet you weep and moan for the native Americans who where
> slaughtered don't you? Yes they suffered a tragic death as have many
> poor souls throughout history and yes they also contributed to human
> history and experience, but their time had come and they can only
> blame themselfs for it.

You're on a slippery slope when you claim that people deserve whatever
mistreatment or misfortune comes their way through mere circumstances
of birth. I suggest you step back and actually read your messages
again and consider how others might interpret them.

I also suggest that, unless you really wish to discuss deficiencies of
Unicode with respect to Python, you don't use this list/group as a
discussion forum for your ill-informed notions of "progress", but
instead take them to a more appropriate forum where I'm sure people
will be happy to scrutinise your ideas at their leisure.

Paul


From sebas0 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 15:33:15 2009
From: sebas0 at gmail.com (Sebastian)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 16:33:15 -0300
Subject: Popen question (redundant processes)
Message-ID: 

Hello World!
This is my first post on the list and I'm hoping it is the right forum and
not OT, I've searched
a bit on this, but, none-the-wiser!

My question is on the Popen method, here is my snippet:

p1 = Popen(["cat", "georgi_ddr7_allmag_kcor_in_test.dat"], stdout=PIPE )
> p2 = Popen(["fit_coeffs"], stdin=p1.stdout, stdout=PIPE)
> p3 = Popen(["reconstruct_maggies"], stdin=p2.stdout,stdout=PIPE)
> output_maggies_z=p3.communicate()[0]
>
> p1 = Popen(["cat", "georgi_ddr7_allmag_kcor_in_test.dat"], stdout=PIPE )
> p2 = Popen(["fit_coeffs"], stdin=p1.stdout, stdout=PIPE)
> p4 = Popen(["reconstruct_maggies", "--band-shift", "0.1", "--redshift",
> "0."], stdin=p2.stdout,stdout=PIPE)
> output_maggies_z0=p4.communicate()[0]
>
>
That is, p1 and p2 are the same, but p3 and p4 which they are passed to, are
different.
Is there a way to pass p1 and p2 to p3 AND p4 simultaneously, so as to not
need to
run p1 and p2 twice, as above?
What arguments would I need to achieve this?

NOTE: "georgi_ddr7_allmag_kcor_in_test.dat" is a very large file (~1E6
records)

regards,
- Sebastian
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From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sun Aug 30 15:33:29 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 30 Aug 2009 12:33:29 -0700
Subject: Overriding iadd for dictionary like objects
References: 
	<87ws4n5gfi.fsf@slice.rozzin.com> 
Message-ID: 

In article ,
RunThePun   wrote:
>
>I made a DictMixin where the keys are filenames and the values are the
>file contents. It was very simple and easy to do thanks to DictMixin.
>
>For example this code writes "abc" in a file named "temp.txt" and
>prints the contents of the file named "swallow", these files are
>looked up/created/deleted in the directory "spam":
>>>> d =3D FilesDict('spam')
>>>> d['temp.txt'] =3D 'abc'
>>>> print(d['swallow'])
>
>My problem arose when I wanted to append a string to a file which
>using open(..., 'ab') would have been miles more efficient because I
>wouldn't have to read the entire file (__getitem__) and then write the
>entire file back (__setitem__). The files are expected to be as big as
>600 KB which will be appended 30 bytes at a time about 3 times a
>second. Performance-wise the system would probably work without open
>(..., 'ab') but it would be a real thrashing so the current solution
>uses a method "AddTo" as Robert suggested, sacrificing the neat
>getitem/setitem syntax.

You can do mostly what you want, I think, by having __setitem__()
convert string values into FileProxy() objects that have an appropriate
__iadd__() method.  That brings a whole new set of problems, of course.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I support family values -- Addams family values" --www.nancybuttons.com


From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 15:43:44 2009
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 12:43:44 -0700
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
In-Reply-To: 
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	<6Djmm.14757$ze1.10295@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	
Message-ID: <7a9c25c20908301243r71fa3376uac02a0000e2ac27e@mail.gmail.com>

>
> So why the heck are we supporting such capitalistic implementations as
> Unicode. Sure we must support a winders installer but Unicode, dump
> it! We don't support a Python group in Chinese or French, so why this?
> Makes no sense to me really. Let M$ deal with it.
>

Who, exactly, do you think "we" are?

You're off talking about The Python Community again, aren't you. I thought
we talked about that.

"We" are a group of diverse people from diverse backgrounds-- national and
linguistic-- and quite a few who either run our own business or are
connected to businesses. A very huge chunk of folk around here quite like
capitalistic implementations. Python's very business and closed-source
friendly, remember?

This "crusade change the world" crap is so strikingly stupid of a troll
approach for this group, I'm startled that it's worked. But it has, so kudos
to you! Can't you go try to get someone fired up who has some philosophical
basis in the group's existence?

Python's not the FSF*. It's not software-for-freedom to change the world.
It's software to get things done, and keep things done down the road.

... sigh. I fed the troll.

--S

P.S. *And I mean no insult by this towards the FSFL. It's a
political/philosophical for-the-good-of-humanity organization, is all. Good
for them.
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From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 15:55:22 2009
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 12:55:22 -0700
Subject: Thread Pool
In-Reply-To: <8abf49ac0908300956x30d41685xfa1a383adb466aea@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8abf49ac0908300956x30d41685xfa1a383adb466aea@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7a9c25c20908301255p13112f64q90a94a9e99fe125@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 9:56 AM, Vitaly Babiy  wrote:

> Hey,
> Any one know of a good thread pool library. I have tried a few but they
> don't seem to clean up after them selfs well.
>
> Thanks,
> Vitaly Babiy
>
>
As obscene as it seems, I actually use twisted's :)

I mean, it's obscene not because it's badly done or anything, but because to
use twisted to do threads sounds terribly wrong. But I have twisted
installed anyway for a different purpose, so figured why not. It seems to
work fine / scale well / clean up fine (assuming my code is correct).

--S
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From bouncyinc at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 16:06:22 2009
From: bouncyinc at gmail.com (John Haggerty)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 14:06:22 -0600
Subject: Thread Pool
In-Reply-To: <7a9c25c20908301255p13112f64q90a94a9e99fe125@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8abf49ac0908300956x30d41685xfa1a383adb466aea@mail.gmail.com>
	<7a9c25c20908301255p13112f64q90a94a9e99fe125@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

twisted? I don't get it

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 1:55 PM, Stephen Hansen wrote:

>
> On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 9:56 AM, Vitaly Babiy  wrote:
>
>> Hey,
>> Any one know of a good thread pool library. I have tried a few but they
>> don't seem to clean up after them selfs well.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Vitaly Babiy
>>
>>
> As obscene as it seems, I actually use twisted's :)
>
> I mean, it's obscene not because it's badly done or anything, but because
> to use twisted to do threads sounds terribly wrong. But I have twisted
> installed anyway for a different purpose, so figured why not. It seems to
> work fine / scale well / clean up fine (assuming my code is correct).
>
> --S
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>
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From luke.leighton at googlemail.com  Sun Aug 30 16:17:56 2009
From: luke.leighton at googlemail.com (lkcl)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 13:17:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: port of GWT GChart to python pyjamas
Message-ID: 

the excellent GWT Chart Library, GChart:
    http://code.google.com/p/gchart/
is being ported to python, to run under the pyjamas [desktop / web]
widget set:
    http://pyjamas.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/pyjamas/trunk/library/pyjamas/chart/
approximately 15 of the 30 examples and 1 of the 90 test charts have
been ported already, enough to show that the libray is in a mostly
useable state, even after only three days.  pie-charts are proving
slightly problematic (as GChartExample24, which is a pie chart editor,
shows).

on the TODO list is:
* the rest of the examples and test charts
* GWT's NumberFormat (a basic one is in place right now)
* GWT's DateFormat (a basic one is in place right now)
* a basic implementation of re.py (for use in pyjs)
* a port of http://code.google.com/p/gwt-canvas/ (for GChart
optimisation purposes)

conversion of the examples from java to python is pretty
straightfoward: pyjamas/contrib/java2py.py is a _very_ basic java to
python converter which takes care of the majority of the global/search/
replace tricks, and also it converts all { } matched braces into the
correct python indentation levels.  when using java2py.py, it relies
on well-formatted code (which 99.9% of GWT is, and 99.5% of GChart
is).  code MUST be converted to actually _have_ braces, so a single-
line "if" statement will give a great deal of grief: pre-editing of
the java code is therefore sometimes required.

please note: no real experience of java programming is required to
convert java into python with java2py.py.

if anyone would like to help out with this porting project, feel free
to check out the source code and submit patches to http://code.google.com/p/pyjamas/issues
and contact http://groups.google.com/group/pyjamas-dev/




From apt.shansen at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 16:18:19 2009
From: apt.shansen at gmail.com (Stephen Hansen)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 13:18:19 -0700
Subject: Thread Pool
In-Reply-To: 
References: <8abf49ac0908300956x30d41685xfa1a383adb466aea@mail.gmail.com> 
	<7a9c25c20908301255p13112f64q90a94a9e99fe125@mail.gmail.com> 
	
Message-ID: <7a9c25c20908301318n742de97bydb8c9f9e63219069@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 1:06 PM, John Haggerty  wrote:

> twisted? I don't get it
>

Twisted. Big library / framework for network'd applications. Specifically,
asynchronous network'd applications, really.

--S
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From clp2 at rebertia.com  Sun Aug 30 16:25:40 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 13:25:40 -0700
Subject: Popen question (redundant processes)
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908301325w67af40a0lfbde8418f4a89e5f@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 12:33 PM, Sebastian wrote:
> Hello World!
> This is my first post on the list and I'm hoping it is the right forum and
> not OT, I've searched
> a bit on this, but, none-the-wiser!
>
> My question is on the Popen method, here is my snippet:
>
>> p1 = Popen(["cat", "georgi_ddr7_allmag_kcor_in_test.dat"], stdout=PIPE )
>> p2 = Popen(["fit_coeffs"], stdin=p1.stdout, stdout=PIPE)
>> p3 = Popen(["reconstruct_maggies"], stdin=p2.stdout,stdout=PIPE)
>> output_maggies_z=p3.communicate()[0]
>>
>> p1 = Popen(["cat", "georgi_ddr7_allmag_kcor_in_test.dat"], stdout=PIPE )
>> p2 = Popen(["fit_coeffs"], stdin=p1.stdout, stdout=PIPE)
>> p4 = Popen(["reconstruct_maggies", "--band-shift", "0.1", "--redshift",
>> "0."], stdin=p2.stdout,stdout=PIPE)
>> output_maggies_z0=p4.communicate()[0]
>>
>
> That is, p1 and p2 are the same, but p3 and p4 which they are passed to, are
> different.
> Is there a way to pass p1 and p2 to p3 AND p4 simultaneously, so as to not
> need to
> run p1 and p2 twice, as above?
> What arguments would I need to achieve this?
>
> NOTE: "georgi_ddr7_allmag_kcor_in_test.dat" is a very large file (~1E6
> records)

Send the output of p2 through the unix command "tee"
(http://unixhelp.ed.ac.uk/CGI/man-cgi?tee). Then put the output of tee
into p3 and set p4's input to the file you specified to tee.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From exallion.long at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 16:33:45 2009
From: exallion.long at gmail.com (Mug)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 13:33:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: initilize a memory zone in python
Message-ID: 

hello, i'm new in python, i used to program in C,
i have a small problem, i tryed to do some serial port things
manipulation
with python.
i have something like:

import sys,termios

fd = sys.stdin.fileno()
term_conf=termios.tcgetattr(fd);

now i want to modify the actuall values in term_conf  zone to zero
i don't see how to do it,
in C we can do : bzero(&term_conf,sizeof(struct termios));
i want to know if it exist a similar function in python, thanks


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 16:52:29 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 13:52:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
References: 
	 
	
	
	<0022fef9$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	 
	<725bcd4c-01ed-489d-baa4-288a5c492831@m20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com> 
	<71e92f9c-4094-409d-95d7-9836737d4dc2@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com> 
	
Message-ID: <8562f607-7bef-422b-b716-487af7c73abc@k13g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 30, 10:27?am, Derek Martin  wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 03:52:36AM -0700, Paul McGuire wrote:
> > > It is surprising how many times we
> > > think things are "intuitive" when we really mean they are "familiar".
>
> > Of course, just as I was typing my response, Steve D'Aprano beat me to
> > the punch.
>
> Intuition means "The power or faculty of attaining to direct knowledge
> or cognition without evident rational thought and inference." ?Very
> naturally, things which behave in a familiar manner are intuitive.
> Familiar and intuitive are very closely tied. ?Correspondingly, when
> things look like something familiar, but behave differently, they are
> naturally unintuitive.

*You* find something unfamiliar, and by your logic that means it's
unintuitive for everyone?

Nice logic there, chief.  Presumptuous much?


Carl Banks


From deets at nospam.web.de  Sun Aug 30 16:58:54 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 22:58:54 +0200
Subject: initilize a memory zone in python
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <7g07ghF2ngfq1U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Mug schrieb:
> hello, i'm new in python, i used to program in C,
> i have a small problem, i tryed to do some serial port things
> manipulation
> with python.
> i have something like:
> 
> import sys,termios
> 
> fd = sys.stdin.fileno()
> term_conf=termios.tcgetattr(fd);
> 
> now i want to modify the actuall values in term_conf  zone to zero
> i don't see how to do it,
> in C we can do : bzero(&term_conf,sizeof(struct termios));
> i want to know if it exist a similar function in python, thanks

In python you don't modify memory like that.

For the above function, you pass a value as the one you got to 
tcgetattr, with values modified as you desire them.

Diez


From nobody at nowhere.com  Sun Aug 30 17:12:49 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 22:12:49 +0100
Subject: IDE for python similar to visual basic
References: <2a17396c-4d6d-4cb0-a314-208054a2f774@z31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
	<6cb48259-3e42-4efe-b856-7b0f1a141024@o21g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 10:48:24 -0700, r wrote:

> I think a point and click GUI builder (although some may disagree) is
> actually detrimental to your programming skills. The ability to
> visualize the GUI only from the source code as you read it, is as
> important to a programmer as site reading sheet music is to a
> musician. And I like to program with the training wheels off.

The main advantage of a GUI builder is that it helps prevent you from
hard-coding the GUI into the program. You could get the same effect by
coding a UIL/XRC/etc file manually, but a GUI builder tends to force it.

It also allows the GUI to be edited by without requiring any programming
knowledge. This eliminates the need for the GUI designer to be familiar
with the programming language used (or any programming language), and
allows customisation by end users.

Creating a GUI programmatically is almost always the wrong approach. It
tends to be adopted due to a path of least resistance, rather than any
affirmative reason.



From 71david at libero.it  Sun Aug 30 17:23:20 2009
From: 71david at libero.it (David)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 23:23:20 +0200
Subject: Why does this group have so much spam?
References: <7294bf8b-9819-4b6d-92b2-afc1c8042a06@x6g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<7l1wem586nhf.c8spq9wpqg99.dlg@40tude.net>
	
Message-ID: 

Il Sun, 30 Aug 2009 19:13:38 +0100, Nobody ha scritto:

> Apart from the impossibility of implementing such a tax, it isn't going to
> discourage spammers when the tax will be paid by the owner of the
> compromised PC from which they're sending their spam.

I don't agree.
Each computer connected to internet is phisically connected to a carrer's
hub. Each carrier can easily count smtp packets of each user as they can
detect, filter and in some nations prosecute, p2p users.

The owner of compromised PC should be responsible of his computer like the
owner of a car is responsible of damages caused by its car. 
That owner should keep his computer clean as he *must* keep his car
functional and safe. 
Today most of the people consider cyber security an optional, but all of us
pay for their negligence. Those people are externalizing to the rest of the
world their costs in terms of SO updating, antivirus, firewall and
knowledge. This is unfair.
This is mainly a matter of sensibility and culture: in '50/60s active and
passive car safety was an optional, today is a must.
I think it's time to switch to responsible computing and the mail-tax would
charge each person of its own costs and annoyances without affectig the rest
of the world.

> 
> If you want to avoid usenet spam and don't want to filter it yourself,
> find a provider with more aggressive spam filter. 

This is not the solution. You are saying that if your neighbour makes loud
noises you can not call police to impose him to cease but you can only make
your home soundproof.

> Ultimately, it's up to
> the person running the news server as to which posts they will or will not
> accept.

Are you suggesting to moderate every news server and mail server all over
the world? THIS is impossible!

D.


From bouncyinc at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 17:30:57 2009
From: bouncyinc at gmail.com (John Haggerty)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 15:30:57 -0600
Subject: Sending email
In-Reply-To: 
References: <7fpj9tF2clhemU1@mid.individual.net>
	<2b3621fd-53fc-4f20-a048-3608894e52af@o9g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
	<7fq7aiF2mp83gU1@mid.individual.net>
	
Message-ID: 

I would concur

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 9:49 AM, 7stud  wrote:

> On Aug 28, 8:18 am, Fencer 
> wrote:
> > 7stud wrote:
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > Thanks for your reply. After consulting the sysadmins here I was able to
> > get it to work.
> >
> > - Fencer
>
>
> Ok, but how about posting your code so that a future searcher will not
> be left screaming, "WHAT THE EFF WAS THE SOLUTION!!"
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
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From barcaroller at music.net  Sun Aug 30 17:37:11 2009
From: barcaroller at music.net (barcaroller)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 17:37:11 -0400
Subject: PyGTK problems after Linux update...
References: 
	<7fq56dF2m6qlbU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: 


"Thomas Guettler"  wrote in message 
news:7fq56dF2m6qlbU1 at mid.individual.net...

> Looks like your pygtk package does not fit to the installed python 
> package.

Okay, I won't disagree, but I how do if fix this?





From exallion.long at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 17:59:50 2009
From: exallion.long at gmail.com (Mug)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 14:59:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: initilize a memory zone in python
References: 
	<7g07ghF2ngfq1U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <18627379-8056-4ee9-b3b8-d5fd4cd0590c@y20g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 30, 8:58?pm, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
> Mug schrieb:
>
> > hello, i'm new in python, i used to program in C,
> > i have a small problem, i tryed to do some serial port things
> > manipulation
> > with python.
> > i have something like:
>
> > import sys,termios
>
> > fd = sys.stdin.fileno()
> > term_conf=termios.tcgetattr(fd);
>
> > now i want to modify the actuall values in term_conf ?zone to zero
> > i don't see how to do it,
> > in C we can do : bzero(&term_conf,sizeof(struct termios));
> > i want to know if it exist a similar function in python, thanks
>
> In python you don't modify memory like that.
>
> For the above function, you pass a value as the one you got to
> tcgetattr, with values modified as you desire them.
i tryed
print term_conf
and i saw that the term_conf is actually represent with an array in
python:

zsh/3 4201 [1] % python test.py
[27906, 5, 1215, 35387, 15, 15, ['\x03', '\x1c', '\x7f', '\x15',
'\x04', '\x00', '\x01', '\xff', '\x11', '\x13', '\x1a', '\xff',
'\x12', '\x0f', '\x17', '\x16', '\xff', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00',
'\x00', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00',
'\x00', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00']]

it's a array of 7 elements, with the seventh element it self a array,
so in order to initialize them to zero, there's no other way than
modify them
one by one in a loop? is there a fonction like "memset" or "bzero" in
python?

>
> Diez



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Aug 30 18:24:00 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 18:24:00 -0400
Subject: quantiles of a student distribution
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Pierre wrote:
> Hello...
> 
> Do you know how I can calculate the quantiles of a student
> distribution in pyhton ?

Try searching the net for 'Python student distribution quantiles'



From rt8396 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 18:28:55 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 15:28:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	 
	
	
	 
	 
	<1ab2c088-bead-43fa-bf4a-3e7f4d84e871@g1g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <59cad1ba-1162-4227-9375-d132ef030a7b@d21g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 30, 2:05?pm, Paul Boddie  wrote:
(snip)
> You don't care which language it is as long as it's the one you use.
> That's what this sounds like, layered on top of what you've already
> written (and what you write below).

I said it before and i will say it again. I DON"T CARE WHAT LANGUAGE
WE USE AS LONG AS IT IS A MODERN LANGUAGE FOUNDED ON IDEALS OF
SIMPLICITY!!!!

> How about Esperanto? You have
> heard of Esperanto, right? Or take your pick from the other artificial
> languages - they're relatively popular in some places where English
> isn't the natural first-choice foreign language.

English is by far already the de-facto lingua franca throughout the
world. However it has many shortcommings. The most prevalent being
idiotic pronunciation. You can thank neo-nazi-linguist and your third
grade language teachers for this brainwashing. Academias raping of
languages has been going on for centuries.

> > Look history is great but i am more concerned with the future. Learn
> > the lessons of the past, move on, and live for the future. If you want
> > to study the hair styles of Neanderthal women be my guest. Anybody
> > with half a brain knows the one world government and language is
> > coming. Why stop evolution, it is our destiny and it will improve the
> > human experience.
>
> Again, we witness a distortion of scientific concepts through the use
> of political themes.

You can deny the holocaust all you want but it still happened and so
too shall the great unity! Sadly because of cultural and social
fanatics like yourself, it will probably take another great war to
usher in the new order.

> Even Xah Lee's harshest critics must acknowledge that Xah delivers a
> less offensive, more entertaining rant than this. At least Xah has
> mastered the art of the expletive.

So you are advocating for me to use derogatory statements in my post,
no thanks i need not resort to adolescent rants to argue my points.
And why do you continue to compare me to XL. Has XL *ever* helped a
python user in this forum? I have, many times. I am *actually* a
python programmer who cares about Python and my posts bring much vigor
and intelligence to an otherwise boring NG -- like me or not.

> You're on a slippery slope when you claim that people deserve whatever
> mistreatment or misfortune comes their way through mere circumstances
> of birth. I suggest you step back and actually read your messages
> again and consider how others might interpret them.

Paul: civilizations rise and fall, this is beyond our control. Every
great power will utter fail at some point. Some die out like a slow
burning candle, others go quickly and painfully from defeating blows
in war time. This is an eventuality you must face friend. This whole
save the whales BS is really getting on my nerves! Stop trying to play
God Paul, it is not your decision when and where the blade shall
fall.

When a people stop evolving and no longer have anything productive to
give to evolution, evolution stamps them out. If the Indians had
developed gun power and industrialized America they might be running
more than merely a casino. Oh No! Was that out of line, you will
probably think so.

Stay in know and you shall endure...



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Aug 30 18:31:42 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 18:31:42 -0400
Subject: Why does this group have so much spam?
In-Reply-To: <86vdk5o2p6.fsf@betla.izb.knu.ac.kr>
References: <7294bf8b-9819-4b6d-92b2-afc1c8042a06@x6g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<86vdk5o2p6.fsf@betla.izb.knu.ac.kr>
Message-ID: 

Byung-Hee HWANG wrote:
> casebash  writes:
> 
>> So much of it could be removed even by simple keyword filtering.
> 
> Use python-list at python.org [1], instead.
> 
> [1] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Or read python-list as a newsgroup via news.gmane.org, which mirrors 
python-list, not c.l.p.




From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Aug 30 18:33:30 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 18:33:30 -0400
Subject: Why does this group have so much spam?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <7294bf8b-9819-4b6d-92b2-afc1c8042a06@x6g2000prc.googlegroups.com>	<7l1wem586nhf.c8spq9wpqg99.dlg@40tude.net>
	
Message-ID: 

Nobody wrote:

> Apart from the impossibility of implementing such a tax, it isn't going to
> discourage spammers when the tax will be paid by the owner of the
> compromised PC from which they're sending their spam.

It would encourge PC owners to not let their machine be used as a spambot.



From cousinstanley at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 18:40:33 2009
From: cousinstanley at gmail.com (Cousin Stanley)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 22:40:33 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Combining C and Python programs
References: 
Message-ID: 



> I want to write a program that will use ode for the physics 
> simulation, whose python bindings are outdated. So I'm writing 
> the physics engine in C and want to write the drawing code in 
> Python. What will be the best way of making those two programs 
> work together? THe physics engine won't have to run concurrently 
> with the drawing code. It will only return some position data so 
> they can be drawn.

  You might find VPython useful .... 

      http://www.vpython.org/

  A VPython example using ode ....

      http://vpython.wikidot.com/forum/t-109218


-- 
Stanley C. Kitching
Human Being
Phoenix, Arizona



From barcaroller at music.net  Sun Aug 30 18:41:51 2009
From: barcaroller at music.net (barcaroller)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 18:41:51 -0400
Subject: PyGTK problems after Linux update...
References: 
	<7fq56dF2m6qlbU1@mid.individual.net>
Message-ID: 


"Thomas Guettler"  wrote in message
news:7fq56dF2m6qlbU1 at mid.individual.net...

> Looks like your pygtk package does not fit to the installed python
> package.

Okay, I won't disagree, but how do I fix this?




From rt8396 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 19:08:46 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 16:08:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Why does this group have so much spam?
References: <7294bf8b-9819-4b6d-92b2-afc1c8042a06@x6g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<7l1wem586nhf.c8spq9wpqg99.dlg@40tude.net>
	 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 30, 4:23?pm, David <71da... at libero.it> wrote:
(snip)
> The owner of compromised PC should be responsible of his computer like the
> owner of a car is responsible of damages caused by its car.
> That owner should keep his computer clean as he *must* keep his car
> functional and safe.

Yes i agree but your logic is flawed. If someone cuts my brake lines
and i cannot stop who is to blame? Or if someone throws nails on the
highway and i crash, who is to blame? Obviously you cannot blame the
car owner. However if i let my brake pads wear out until they are
metal on metal and run over some poor old lady crossing the street --
well now you got me! ;)

But you cannot apply this logic when a hacker compromises someones
computer, it the same as cutting their brake lines. How can you
honestly expect that Joe computer user will know of this infection? Do
you even know where your brake lines are? Even hackers can be hacked
without ever knowing it! The only sure fire way is VM's or system re-
installs.

> Today most of the people consider cyber security an optional, but all of us
> pay for their negligence. Those people are externalizing to the rest of the
> world their costs in terms of SO updating, antivirus, firewall and
> knowledge. This is unfair.

Yes, keeping a running AV and proper updating i agree with...

> This is mainly a matter of sensibility and culture: in '50/60s active and
> passive car safety was an optional, today is a must.
> I think it's time to switch to responsible computing and the mail-tax would
> charge each person of its own costs and annoyances without affectig the rest
> of the world.

What, this is madness! If you have terrorist terrorizing your country
you don't tax the public when they blow up a shopping mall so you can
rebuild it! No you kill the terrorist in a harsh and painful manner
and make an example of them, then you seize there monies. You should
direct your anger to the proper internet security authorities(and more
importantly to the perpetrator's) and not the innocent victims of such
attacks. I want you to sit back and think very deeply about your
proposal here because it is horribly wrong.

It is so easy to just slap a tax on something, yes that will solve
everything. *sarcasm*

> > If you want to avoid usenet spam and don't want to filter it yourself,
> > find a provider with more aggressive spam filter.
>
> This is not the solution. You are saying that if your neighbour makes loud
> noises you can not call police to impose him to cease but you can only make
> your home soundproof.

or you could go over and punch him in the nose, works every time for
me ;-)



From rt8396 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 19:24:00 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 16:24:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Colors on IDLE
References: 
	 
	
	<59922ab5-f8c9-429f-b1ea-9b1418aa6b71@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>
	<8d5d283f-b0bd-4e16-97c7-d2de1a148cae@l35g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <45407662-a944-4e8c-922e-83095cd2ce9e@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 28, 6:27?pm, r  wrote:
> Have you tried saving the files as MYScriptName.py? notice the py
> extension, very important ;)

Just for fun try the .pyw extension and observe the result.


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 19:36:31 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 16:36:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	<4a9a0988$0$1669$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 30, 1:08?pm, Nobody  wrote:
(snip)
> Because that would be the likely consequence of such a stance. Japanese
> websites will continue to use Shift-JIS, Japanese cellphones (or
> Scandanavian cellphones aimed at the Japanese market, for that matter)
> will continue to render websites which use Shift-JIS, and HTML 5 will be
> just as much a pure academic exercise as all of the other HTML standards.

Yes and this keep-everyone-happy crap will go on for centuries.
Unicode will then turn into another elephant sized bloatware standard
that only VB and MSDN, M$ Office, and Adobe PDF can hold a candle to.
Who cares, hard drives can hold terabytes of useless junk, right?

This is starting to border on OCD tendencies and i for one am getting
very nervous.


From david.lyon at preisshare.net  Sun Aug 30 20:06:52 2009
From: david.lyon at preisshare.net (David Lyon)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 20:06:52 -0400
Subject: ubuntu dist-packages
In-Reply-To: <0298b834-78b4-4501-a09b-9b8da5e796c1@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<7fki3lF2kirnkU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	
	<71f5986e-6aae-46b0-8325-d67051c60a30@a13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>
	<7fnftkF2m6bvdU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<0298b834-78b4-4501-a09b-9b8da5e796c1@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 07:05:51 -0700 (PDT), Paul Boddie 
wrote:
> No, it's the problem of the Pythonic packaging brigade that package
> retrieval, building and installing is combined into one unsatisfactory
> whole. 

Brigade? That implies a disciplined and systematic approach..

I would suggest a better term is just guerrilla fighters.

There's no central planning.. no looking out for the greater good..

No sense of future.. forgive my pessimism.. 

> In fact, the distributions have proven themselves
> to be quite competent at managing huge numbers of software packages in
> a semi-automated fashion, so it's baffling that people doing work on
> Pythonic packaging tools wouldn't want to learn as much as they can
> about how those people manage it.

That's a serious and true allegation. I think the answer is that the
people that are running it aren't interested in cleaning things up
for the linux or windows platform.

Consensus seems to be just "remove" anything that relates to windows
or linux as an approach to harmonising it.

I believe that it should be harmonised.


> For me, when making Debian packages, it has become easier to use the
> debhelper stuff to install things like documentation and resources
> than it is to figure out which special options have to be passed to
> the particular distutils incarnation of the setup function in order to
> get such stuff put in the right place, especially since distutils
> probably still employs an ad-hoc 1990s proprietary UNIX "oh just dump
> that stuff in some directory or other and forget about it" mentality.

It doesn't. Actually, it can't even do that very well.

90's.... which '90s ? 1890's ?

> Really, distutils should be all about *dist*ribution and even then get
> out of the way as much as possible - the hard stuff is extracting the
> appropriate knowledge about the built Python interpreter in order to
> build extensions. 

Exactly.

> Installation should be left to something which has
> an opinion about where things should be placed on a particular system,
> and which has the capability to know how to uninstall stuff - a
> capability which never seems to get any closer in the distutils scene.

(sigh) - it is true...

David



From grante at visi.com  Sun Aug 30 20:25:45 2009
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 19:25:45 -0500
Subject: initilize a memory zone in python
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-30, Mug  wrote:

> hello, i'm new in python, i used to program in C, i have a
> small problem, i tryed to do some serial port things

You're probably better off just using pyserial:

  http://pyserial.sourceforge.net/

If you really want to muck about with termios stuff, you can
look at the posix serial module in pyserial to see how it's
done.

> import sys,termios
>
> fd = sys.stdin.fileno()
> term_conf=termios.tcgetattr(fd);
>
> now i want to modify the actuall values in term_conf zone to
> zero

Have you looked at the documentation for termios.tcgettattr()?

It returns a list of integers.  If you want set them to zero,
then just set them to zero.

If you want a configuration that's all zeros, why bother
calling tcgetattr() at all?  Just set the configuration to
zeros:

term_conf = [0,0,0,0,0,0]

-- 
Grant



From grante at visi.com  Sun Aug 30 20:37:15 2009
From: grante at visi.com (Grant Edwards)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 19:37:15 -0500
Subject: initilize a memory zone in python
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-31, Grant Edwards  wrote:

> If you want a configuration that's all zeros, why bother
> calling tcgetattr() at all?  Just set the configuration to
> zeros:
>
> term_conf = [0,0,0,0,0,0]

Oops, I forgot about cc.  That should be:

  term_conf = [0,0,0,0,0,0,['\x00']*32]

That's why it's easier to just use pyserial ;)
  
-- 
Grant




From walkraft at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 20:49:52 2009
From: walkraft at gmail.com (casebash)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 17:49:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Nice copy in interactive terminal
References: 
	<1250153823.228153@athprx03>
	<0dac8bc9-8f00-4f4e-bc29-b475bade7685@y10g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <67cb16ca-89a5-43f3-8074-990b491faa7d@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

I managed to get some more answers here:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1352886/nice-copying-from-python-interpreter

On Aug 14, 5:05?pm, casebash  wrote:
> I mainly develop on Linux these days, but if I ever end up doing
> anything on windows I'll make sure to look at that.
>
> On Aug 13, 6:56?pm, "Elias Fotinis \(eliasf\)" 
> wrote:
>
> > "casebash" wrote:
> > > I've been wondering for a while if there exists an interactive
> > > terminal which has nice copy feature (ie. I can copy code without
> > > getting the >>> in front of every line).
>
> > It would help if we knew what platform you're interested in -- your
> > User-Agent is G2/1.0, but I don't know what that is. ?:o)
>
> > On Windows, PythonWin can copy from the interactive window without the
> > prompts.
>
>



From walkraft at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 20:50:45 2009
From: walkraft at gmail.com (casebash)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 17:50:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Determining the metaclass
References: <6f69f304-3cf1-45c8-b86d-f57751bcc2ed@d15g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<3e1b7e0b-e44c-4b34-9866-33aa7b33a3af@v37g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Thanks, I am silly


>
> > I cannot determine if a class is an instance of a particular
> > metaclass. Here is my best attempt
>
> > >>> class tmp(type):
>
> > ... ? ? pass
> > ...>>> def c(metaclass=tmp):
>
> > ... ? ? pass
> > ...>>> isinstance(c, tmp)
> > False
> > >>> isinstance(c.__class__, tmp)
>
> > False
>
> > Can anyone explain why this fails?
>
> You're gonna kick yourself.
>
> It's because you used "def" and not "class" to define c. ?If you'd
> used "class" then then first test would have worked.
>
> Carl Banks



From rt8396 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 20:51:28 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 17:51:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: initilize a memory zone in python
References: 
	<7g07ghF2ngfq1U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<18627379-8056-4ee9-b3b8-d5fd4cd0590c@y20g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <2f4ad057-c88b-4fe7-8858-3511b2a10f27@y20g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 30, 4:59?pm, Mug  wrote:
(snip)
> is there a fonction like "memset" or "bzero" in python?

Not that i know of ;). Try this link for a coverage of the Python
built-in functions. You cannot write quality Python code without
them.
http://docs.python.org/3.1/library/functions.html

What you refer to as an array is called a list round here, see this
informative read
http://docs.python.org/3.1/library/stdtypes.html#sequence-types-str-bytes-bytearray-list-tuple-range

And be sure to check out list comprehentions too, just icing on the
cake ;)

python 3000 docs
http://docs.python.org/3.1/




From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Sun Aug 30 21:29:14 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 22:29:14 -0300
Subject: Popen question (redundant processes)
References: 
	<50697b2c0908301325w67af40a0lfbde8418f4a89e5f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

En Sun, 30 Aug 2009 17:25:40 -0300, Chris Rebert   
escribi?:

> On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 12:33 PM, Sebastian wrote:
>> Hello World!
>> This is my first post on the list and I'm hoping it is the right forum  
>> and
>> not OT, I've searched
>> a bit on this, but, none-the-wiser!
>>
>> My question is on the Popen method, here is my snippet:
>>
>>> p1 = Popen(["cat", "georgi_ddr7_allmag_kcor_in_test.dat"], stdout=PIPE  
>>> )
>>> p2 = Popen(["fit_coeffs"], stdin=p1.stdout, stdout=PIPE)
>>> p3 = Popen(["reconstruct_maggies"], stdin=p2.stdout,stdout=PIPE)
>>> output_maggies_z=p3.communicate()[0]
>>>
>>> p1 = Popen(["cat", "georgi_ddr7_allmag_kcor_in_test.dat"], stdout=PIPE  
>>> )
>>> p2 = Popen(["fit_coeffs"], stdin=p1.stdout, stdout=PIPE)
>>> p4 = Popen(["reconstruct_maggies", "--band-shift", "0.1", "--redshift",
>>> "0."], stdin=p2.stdout,stdout=PIPE)
>>> output_maggies_z0=p4.communicate()[0]
>>>
>>
>> That is, p1 and p2 are the same, but p3 and p4 which they are passed  
>> to, are
>> different.
>> Is there a way to pass p1 and p2 to p3 AND p4 simultaneously, so as to  
>> not
>> need to
>> run p1 and p2 twice, as above?
>> What arguments would I need to achieve this?
>>
>> NOTE: "georgi_ddr7_allmag_kcor_in_test.dat" is a very large file (~1E6
>> records)
>
> Send the output of p2 through the unix command "tee"
> (http://unixhelp.ed.ac.uk/CGI/man-cgi?tee). Then put the output of tee
> into p3 and set p4's input to the file you specified to tee.

In addition to that, you can avoid the cat command (and omit p1  
completely), just pass the georgi file as p2 stdin:
p2 = Popen(["fit_coeffs"], stdin=open("georgi..."), ...

In other words, the original shell commands are:

cat georgi.dat | fit | reconstruct
cat georgi.dat | fit | reconstruct --otherargs

and we suggest doing:

fit < georgi.dat | tee /tmp/foo | reconstruct
reconstruct  --otherargs < /tmp/foo

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From timr at probo.com  Sun Aug 30 23:18:41 2009
From: timr at probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 20:18:41 -0700
Subject: why python got less developers ?
References: 
	
	<1ccf54f5-b1f5-4c4a-b782-fde1a1648cf6@l5g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <3bfm959q7f430caogglsctpoc6j917d7m6@4ax.com>

Esam Qanadeely  wrote:
>On Aug 28, 8:27?am, Tim Roberts  wrote:
>> Deep_Feelings  wrote:
>>
>> >python got relatively fewer numbers of developers than other high
>> >level languages like .NET , java .. etc ?why ?
>>
>> How do you know, and why does it matter?
>>
>> By the way, .NET is not a language. ?I assume you meant C#.
>
>you know when you go to forums and compare the number of posts and
>topics ,and you know when you google and compare the number of results
>
>.NET= i meant all .NET languages

That's hardly a fair way to categorize things.  "All .NET languages"
includes C++, C#, Basic, Java (in J#), Ocaml (in F#), and Python.
-- 
Tim Roberts, timr at probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.


From drsalists at gmail.com  Sun Aug 30 23:27:55 2009
From: drsalists at gmail.com (Dan Stromberg)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 20:27:55 -0700
Subject: Reading binary files
In-Reply-To: <4eb0089f0908241443p348eea3dxd57581e37f94d0bd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9c8c445f0908240735k6599045dn5ecbd63fa76bfe6e@mail.gmail.com>	<1251125039.23757.0.camel@brotherus.corp.redhat.com>	<9c8c445f0908240818k1ae301acr49c65ccb21435cd7@mail.gmail.com>	<9c8c445f0908240950h24e5bfccoc9ae809c1048be5d@mail.gmail.com>
	<4eb0089f0908241443p348eea3dxd57581e37f94d0bd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A9B433B.8050203@gmail.com>

David Robinow wrote:
>>> This works for a simple binary file, but the actual file I'm trying to
>>> read is give throwing an error that the file cannot be found. Here is the
>>> name of the my file:
>>> 2009.08.02_06.52.00_WA-1_0001_00_0662_0.jstars
>>>
>>> Should python have trouble reading this file name or extension?
>>>       
>> I'm having trouble with the filename:
>> 2009.08.02_06.52.00_WA-1_0001_00_0662_0.jstars
>>
>> It throws an error with that file name, When I change it to something like
>> sample.txt it runs, but the data is still garbled. Is there any reason why I
>> can't use the above file name? If I'm using 'rb' to read the binary file why
>> is it still garbled?
>>     
>  I don't think it's garbled. It's a binary file. What do you expect?
>
> It's been over ten years since I've worked with any JSTARS stuff so I
> can't give you any details but you almost certainly have some sort of
> imagery. The military has a lot of bizarre formats and whoever sent
> you the data should have included a data sheet describing the format
> (or a pointer to such).  Ideally, you'll also get a pointer to code to
> read the thing, but sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and
> write a program to process the file.
>    (If all else fails, look at a dump of the first 512 bytes or so;
> often the image size is included at the beginning; maybe in ASCII, 16
> bit ints, 32 bit ints, floating point -- who knows)
> There've been times when I had to just display the thing at 512 or
> 1024 bytes (or ints) per row and try to surmise the info from that.
> So, look for the file description.
> ...
> Googling a bit:   I see there's a package at
>    http://www.mbari.org/data/mbsystem/index.html
> which purports to handle some JSTARS stuff. I've no idea if that will help you.
>   
If you don't find anything preexisting for reading JSTARS format, this 
might help:

http://stromberg.dnsalias.org/~strombrg/converting-binary.html



From nagle at animats.com  Mon Aug 31 00:29:38 2009
From: nagle at animats.com (John Nagle)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 21:29:38 -0700
Subject: What python can NOT do?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <00a36f89-52dd-4d90-a455-cee6a0c9d10f@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>	<4a998465$0$1637$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>	
	
Message-ID: <4a9b506c$0$1675$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>

exarkun at twistedmatrix.com wrote:
> On 10:23 pm, aahz at pythoncraft.com wrote:
>> In article <4a998465$0$1637$742ec2ed at news.sonic.net>,
>> John Nagle   wrote:
>>>
>>>    Personally, I consider Python to be a good language held back by
>>> too-close ties to a naive interpreter implementation and the lack
>>> of a formal standard for the language.
...
> 
> For my part, I will agree with John.  I feel like Python's big 
> shortcomings stem from the areas he mentioned.  They're related to each 
> other as well - the lack of a standard hampers the development of a less 
> naive interpreter (either one based on CPython or another one).  It 
> doesn't completely prevent such development (obviously, as CPython 
> continues to undergo development, and there are a number of alternate 
> runtimes for Python-like languages), but there's clearly a cost 
> associated with the fact that in order to do this development, a lot of 
> time has to be spent figuring out what Python *is*.  This is the kind of 
> thing that a standard would help with.

    Right.  Python is a moving target for developers of implementations other
than CPython.  IronPython's production version is at Python 2.5, with a
beta at 2.6.  Shed Skin is at 2.x and lacks the manpower to get to 3.x.
Psyco I'm not sure about, but it's 2.x.  PyPy is at Python 2.5, but PyPy
is currently slower than CPython.

    A solid Python 3 standard would give everyone a target to shoot for that
would be good for five years or so.

					John Nagle


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 00:31:29 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 21:31:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: why python got less developers ?
References: 
	
	<604b21ef-a3ad-4da8-92f5-c1d22345b4d7@p15g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <798eded3-b3fe-4995-9e63-bff718b18889@m20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 29, 11:14?pm, kennyken747  wrote:
(snip)
> You guys can say anything you'd like it to be in this thread, but the
> actual reason comes down to
> 1. No marketing. Seriously, if Microsoft was pushing Python it would
> obviously be a lot bigger in terms of developers.

I really don't care if 100 or 100 million are using Python as long as
it will endure my lifetime so i can use it ;). But it would be
interesting to see a good approx of this number... just for kicks

> Also, really guys? This crap about speed? People have been saying this
> for years, and yet they still don't realize that there are plenty
> solutions to take care of that one problem.
>
> Just be happy that you've stumbled upon Python, just because it's not
> the most widespread language in the world certainly doesn't mean it's
> not a worthy language. Quite the opposite.

Your post seems a contridiction of itself? i am confused :\



From kerensaelise at hotmail.com  Mon Aug 31 00:55:52 2009
From: kerensaelise at hotmail.com (elsa)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 21:55:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: map
Message-ID: <777de4d8-e591-4d21-bbd0-b286105895bc@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

i have a question about the built in map function. Here 'tis:

say I have a list, myList. Now say I have a function with more than
one argument:

myFunc(a, b='None')

now, say I want to map myFunc onto myList, with always the same
argument for b, but iterating over a:

map(myFunc(b='booHoo'), myList)

Why doesn't this work? is there a way to make it work?

(Ultimately, I want to call myFunc(myList[0], 'booHoo'), myFunc(myList
[1], 'booHoo'), myFunc(myList[2], 'booHoo') etc. However, I might want
to call myFunc(myList[0], 'woo'), myFunc(myList[1], 'woo'), myFunc
(myList[2], 'woo') some other time).

Thanks,

Elsa


From mmm286 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 01:08:39 2009
From: mmm286 at gmail.com (mierdatutis mi)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 22:08:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: connect to ms sql server with odbc
Message-ID: 

Hi,

I'm newbie in python. I try to connect to remote server with ms sql
server from my ubuntu. I install pyodbc and I do:

 >>> conn = >>> Conn =
 pyodbc.connect("DRIVER=
{FreeTDS};SERVER=defekas62;UID=emuser;PWD=temporal;DATABASE=em620")
pyodbc.connect ( "DRIVER = () FreeTDS; SERVER = defekas62; UID =
emuser; PWD = temporal; em620 DATABASE =")
 cursor = conn.cursor() cursor = conn.cursor ()
 >>> for row in cursor.execute("select USERNAME from JOBACTIONS"): >>>
Para la fila en cursor.execute ( "usuario seleccionar de
JOBACTIONS"):
 ... ... print row.USERNAME row.USERNAME de impresi?n
   File "", line 2 Archivo "", l?nea 2
     print row.USERNAME row.USERNAME de impresi?n
         ^ ^
 IndentationError: expected an indented block
Why this error?
Many thanks and sorry for my english


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Mon Aug 31 01:17:30 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 22:17:30 -0700
Subject: map
In-Reply-To: <777de4d8-e591-4d21-bbd0-b286105895bc@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
References: <777de4d8-e591-4d21-bbd0-b286105895bc@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908302217o4d2f445m96bc713f93be961e@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 9:55 PM, elsa wrote:
> Hi,
>
> i have a question about the built in map function. Here 'tis:
>
> say I have a list, myList. Now say I have a function with more than
> one argument:
>
> myFunc(a, b='None')
>
> now, say I want to map myFunc onto myList, with always the same
> argument for b, but iterating over a:
>
> map(myFunc(b='booHoo'), myList)
>
> Why doesn't this work?

Because myFunc is executed before map() is ever called, and you didn't
specify a value for the `a` parameter, hence you get an error about
not giving a value for `a`.
Another way of saying this: Python uses "eager evaluation"
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eager_evaluation) most of the time.

> is there a way to make it work?

Use functools.partial to fill in the `b` parameter:
http://docs.python.org/library/functools.html#functools.partial

#untested example:
from functools import partial
f = partial(myFunc, b='booHoo')
map(f, myList)

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From rurpy at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 31 01:19:13 2009
From: rurpy at yahoo.com (rurpy at yahoo.com)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 22:19:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: map
References: <777de4d8-e591-4d21-bbd0-b286105895bc@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On 08/30/2009 10:55 PM, elsa wrote:
> i have a question about the built in map function. Here 'tis:
>
> say I have a list, myList. Now say I have a function with more than
> one argument:
>
> myFunc(a, b='None')
>
> now, say I want to map myFunc onto myList, with always the same
> argument for b, but iterating over a:
>
> map(myFunc(b='booHoo'), myList)
>
> Why doesn't this work? is there a way to make it work?

When you write "map(myFunc(b='booHoo'), myList)", you are telling
Python to call myFunc before the map function is called, because
an argument list, "(b='booHoo')", follows myFunc.  You want
to pass map a function object, not the results of calling a
function object.

A couple ways to do what you want:

  map(lambda a: myFunc(a, b='booHoo'), myList)

The lamba expression creates a new function of one argument
(which is needed by map) that, when executed, will call myFunc
with the two arguments it needs.

You can also just define an ordinary function that does
the same thing as the lambda above:

  def tmpFunc (a)
    myFunc (a, b='booHoo')
  ...
  map (tmpFunc, myList)

In the functools module there is a function called "partial"
that does something similar to the lambda above.  I'll leave
it to you you look it up if interested.

HTH


From half.italian at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 01:24:22 2009
From: half.italian at gmail.com (Sean DiZazzo)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 22:24:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: connect to ms sql server with odbc
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 30, 10:08?pm, mierdatutis mi  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm newbie in python. I try to connect to remote server with ms sql
> server from my ubuntu. I install pyodbc and I do:
>
> ?>>> conn = >>> Conn =
> ?pyodbc.connect("DRIVER=
> {FreeTDS};SERVER=defekas62;UID=emuser;PWD=temporal;DATABASE=em620")
> pyodbc.connect ( "DRIVER = () FreeTDS; SERVER = defekas62; UID =
> emuser; PWD = temporal; em620 DATABASE =")
> ?cursor = conn.cursor() cursor = conn.cursor ()
> ?>>> for row in cursor.execute("select USERNAME from JOBACTIONS"): >>>
> Para la fila en cursor.execute ( "usuario seleccionar de
> JOBACTIONS"):
> ?... ... print row.USERNAME row.USERNAME de impresi?n
> ? ?File "", line 2 Archivo "", l?nea 2
> ? ? ?print row.USERNAME row.USERNAME de impresi?n
> ? ? ? ? ?^ ^
> ?IndentationError: expected an indented block
> Why this error?
> Many thanks and sorry for my english

Welcome to python.  The error is telling you exactly what it says.
There is a block of code that is not indented properly.  Perhaps your
code was edited with two different editors?

Tabs are not equal to spaces.  Go thru your code and be sure that you
are consistent with all of your spacing.  I believe 4 spaces per
indent (without tabs) is the current Python standard.

~Sean


From news3 at mystrobl.de  Mon Aug 31 01:34:28 2009
From: news3 at mystrobl.de (Wolfgang Strobl)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 07:34:28 +0200
Subject: map
References: <777de4d8-e591-4d21-bbd0-b286105895bc@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <91om95pbqtcduss20iv37f44scr89fgudb@4ax.com>

elsa :

>now, say I want to map myFunc onto myList, with always the same
>argument for b, but iterating over a:

>>> from functools import partial
>>> def g(x,y=1): return x+y
...
>>> map(partial(g,y=2),[1,2])
[3, 4]
>>> map(partial(g,y=42),[1,2])
[43, 44]


-- 
Wir danken f?r die Beachtung aller Sicherheitsbestimmungen


From erik.reppen at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 02:10:07 2009
From: erik.reppen at gmail.com (Erik Reppen)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 23:10:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: why python got less developers ?
References: 
Message-ID: 

It seems to be a language embraced by people who enjoy coding. Not so
much by the time-spent-seeking-degree to paycheck ratio balancing
crowd. Or maybe I just hate bloated IDEs and I've heard too many Java
dev jokes to be impartial.


From ubershmekel at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 02:26:59 2009
From: ubershmekel at gmail.com (RunThePun)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 23:26:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Overriding iadd for dictionary like objects
References: 
	<87ws4n5gfi.fsf@slice.rozzin.com>  
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 30, 10:33?pm, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
> In article ,
>
>
>
>
>
> RunThePun ? wrote:
>
> >I made a DictMixin where the keys are filenames and the values are the
> >file contents. It was very simple and easy to do thanks to DictMixin.
>
> >For example this code writes "abc" in a file named "temp.txt" and
> >prints the contents of the file named "swallow", these files are
> >looked up/created/deleted in the directory "spam":
> >>>> d =3D FilesDict('spam')
> >>>> d['temp.txt'] =3D 'abc'
> >>>> print(d['swallow'])
>
> >My problem arose when I wanted to append a string to a file which
> >using open(..., 'ab') would have been miles more efficient because I
> >wouldn't have to read the entire file (__getitem__) and then write the
> >entire file back (__setitem__). The files are expected to be as big as
> >600 KB which will be appended 30 bytes at a time about 3 times a
> >second. Performance-wise the system would probably work without open
> >(..., 'ab') but it would be a real thrashing so the current solution
> >uses a method "AddTo" as Robert suggested, sacrificing the neat
> >getitem/setitem syntax.
>
> You can do mostly what you want, I think, by having __setitem__()
> convert string values into FileProxy() objects that have an appropriate
> __iadd__() method. ?That brings a whole new set of problems, of course.
> --
> Aahz (a... at pythoncraft.com) ? ? ? ? ? <*> ? ? ? ?http://www.pythoncraft.com/
>
> "I support family values -- Addams family values" --www.nancybuttons.com

I'm guessing you meant __getitem__, which is what Jan Kaliszewski
suggested, but as you noted, would be a bit cumbersome in this case.


From pierre.gaillard at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 03:41:57 2009
From: pierre.gaillard at gmail.com (Pierre)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 00:41:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: lambda functions
Message-ID: <5369eaa8-bcda-44e0-90c3-8972f2b1eb91@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I would like to know if it is possible to define a loop in a lambda
function....

How to manage the indents ? Example :
s_minus_1 = lambda s : for index in range(0, len(s)) : s[index] = s
[index]-1


Thanks !



From eric.brunel at pragmadev.com  Mon Aug 31 03:50:20 2009
From: eric.brunel at pragmadev.com (eb303)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 00:50:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: An assessment of Tkinter and IDLE
References: <55a0833d-3f1f-402a-8eb7-cb4b7861cce5@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	 
	
Message-ID: <7b4f243d-ac69-4351-aed7-924afb0b3b11@e18g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 28, 4:41 pm, r  wrote:
> Thanks eb303 for the wonderful post
>
> I have looked over the new ttk widgets and everything looks nice. I am
> very glad to see the death of Tix as i never much liked it anyhow and
> always believed these widgets should have been in the main Tkinter
> module to start with. The tree widget has been needed for some time.
>
> However, i am not sure about the new "style" separation. Previously a
> simple command like root.option_add('*Label.Font'...) accomplished the
> same thing with less typing, but there may be a future method to this
> current madness that i am unaware of...???

The new widgets have been made mainly to make tk look better by making
it possible to use native widgets. The drawback is that it limits a
lot the possibilities of configuration you can have: on many
platforms, the looks of the widgets are decided by the user via a
system preference, not by the application programmer. This is why ttk
widgets are not configurable directly, because 'native' styles usually
don't allow it at application level anyway.

Keep in mind that the new ttk widgets are not replacements for former
widgets, but an addition to them. 'Old' widgets are still here, and
there is no plan I know of to remove them. If you want to do an
application with a very specific look, you can still use these.


From clp2 at rebertia.com  Mon Aug 31 03:51:07 2009
From: clp2 at rebertia.com (Chris Rebert)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 00:51:07 -0700
Subject: lambda functions
In-Reply-To: <5369eaa8-bcda-44e0-90c3-8972f2b1eb91@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
References: <5369eaa8-bcda-44e0-90c3-8972f2b1eb91@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <50697b2c0908310051n3bbe87d7n9929f90231062daa@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 12:41 AM, Pierre wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I would like to know if it is possible to define a loop in a lambda
> function....

Not possible. Lambdas can only contain a single expression. A loop is
a block statement.
Just use a named function instead. There's nothing that can be done
with a lambda that can't be done with a named function instead.

Cheers,
Chris
--
http://blog.rebertia.com


From javier.collado at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 03:59:55 2009
From: javier.collado at gmail.com (Javier Collado)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 09:59:55 +0200
Subject: lambda functions
In-Reply-To: <5369eaa8-bcda-44e0-90c3-8972f2b1eb91@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
References: <5369eaa8-bcda-44e0-90c3-8972f2b1eb91@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Hello,

This page has some advice about how to avoid some of the lambda
functions limitations:
http://p-nand-q.com/python/stupid_lambda_tricks.html

In particular, it suggests to use map function instead of for loops.

Best regards,
    Javier

2009/8/31 Pierre :
> Hello,
>
> I would like to know if it is possible to define a loop in a lambda
> function....
>
> How to manage the indents ? Example :
> s_minus_1 = lambda s : for index in range(0, len(s)) : s[index] = s
> [index]-1
>
>
> Thanks !
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From deets at nospam.web.de  Mon Aug 31 04:08:39 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:08:39 +0200
Subject: initilize a memory zone in python
In-Reply-To: <18627379-8056-4ee9-b3b8-d5fd4cd0590c@y20g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<7g07ghF2ngfq1U1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<18627379-8056-4ee9-b3b8-d5fd4cd0590c@y20g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7g1eo9F2neh1fU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

Mug schrieb:
> On Aug 30, 8:58 pm, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
>> Mug schrieb:
>>
>>> hello, i'm new in python, i used to program in C,
>>> i have a small problem, i tryed to do some serial port things
>>> manipulation
>>> with python.
>>> i have something like:
>>> import sys,termios
>>> fd = sys.stdin.fileno()
>>> term_conf=termios.tcgetattr(fd);
>>> now i want to modify the actuall values in term_conf  zone to zero
>>> i don't see how to do it,
>>> in C we can do : bzero(&term_conf,sizeof(struct termios));
>>> i want to know if it exist a similar function in python, thanks
>> In python you don't modify memory like that.
>>
>> For the above function, you pass a value as the one you got to
>> tcgetattr, with values modified as you desire them.
> i tryed
> print term_conf
> and i saw that the term_conf is actually represent with an array in
> python:
> 
> zsh/3 4201 [1] % python test.py
> [27906, 5, 1215, 35387, 15, 15, ['\x03', '\x1c', '\x7f', '\x15',
> '\x04', '\x00', '\x01', '\xff', '\x11', '\x13', '\x1a', '\xff',
> '\x12', '\x0f', '\x17', '\x16', '\xff', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00',
> '\x00', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00',
> '\x00', '\x00', '\x00', '\x00']]
> 
> it's a array of 7 elements, with the seventh element it self a array,
> so in order to initialize them to zero, there's no other way than
> modify them
> one by one in a loop? is there a fonction like "memset" or "bzero" in
> python?

Again: no, there is no such function. But for the above, you'd easily write:

foo = [0] * 7 # only do this with immutables
foo[-1] = ['\x00'] * 16

alternatively, you modify the result you got from tcgetattr in the 
places you want.



Diez


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Mon Aug 31 04:16:39 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 05:16:39 -0300
Subject: lambda functions
References: <5369eaa8-bcda-44e0-90c3-8972f2b1eb91@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

En Mon, 31 Aug 2009 04:41:57 -0300, Pierre   
escribi?:

> I would like to know if it is possible to define a loop in a lambda
> function....
>
> How to manage the indents ? Example :
> s_minus_1 = lambda s : for index in range(0, len(s)) : s[index] = s
> [index]-1

You can't. lambda is just a way to define a short, inline, anonymous  
function, and its body can only contain expressions, not statements.

Even if what you want were legal, giving a name to the resulting  
expression kind of defeats the purpose of lambda - use a normal function  
instead:

def s_minus_1(s):
   "document usage here"
   for index,item in enumerate(s):
     s[index] -= 1

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Mon Aug 31 04:19:57 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:19:57 +0200
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
In-Reply-To: 
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	<3e9ddb9b-8f61-4d8d-a25c-7e95e8a25c06@g1g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <200908311019.58029.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Sunday 30 August 2009 22:46:49 Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

> 	Rather elitist viewpoint... Why don't we just drop nukes on some 60%
> of populated landmasses that don't have a "western" culture and avoid
> the whole problem?

Now yer talking, boyo!  It will surely help with the basic problem which is 
the heavy infestation of people on the planet!
:-)

- Hendrik



From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Mon Aug 31 04:43:07 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:43:07 +0200
Subject: map
In-Reply-To: <777de4d8-e591-4d21-bbd0-b286105895bc@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
References: <777de4d8-e591-4d21-bbd0-b286105895bc@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <200908311043.07827.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Monday 31 August 2009 06:55:52 elsa wrote:

8< --------- map question ----------------------------

>
> (Ultimately, I want to call myFunc(myList[0], 'booHoo'), myFunc(myList
> [1], 'booHoo'), myFunc(myList[2], 'booHoo') etc. However, I might want
> to call myFunc(myList[0], 'woo'), myFunc(myList[1], 'woo'), myFunc
> (myList[2], 'woo') some other time).

Here is some heretical advice:

Do not use stuff like map and reduce unless they fit what you want to do 
perfectly, and "JustWorks" the first time.

You have a very clear idea of what you want to do, so why do you not just 
simply write something to do it?

something like this (untested):

def woofer(thefunc,thelist,thething):
	theanswers = []
	for x in thelist:
		theanswers.append(thefunc(x,thething))
	return theanswers

And the advantage is that you do not have to remember what map does...

*ducks away from the inevitable flames*

- Hendrik


From pierre.gaillard at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 05:02:45 2009
From: pierre.gaillard at gmail.com (Pierre)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 02:02:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: rcond in numpy :
Message-ID: 


Hello,

Anyone knows the numpy equivalent of the matlab function : rcond
(Matrix reciprocal condition number estimate) ?

Thanks.


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Mon Aug 31 05:05:17 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 06:05:17 -0300
Subject: map
References: <777de4d8-e591-4d21-bbd0-b286105895bc@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<200908311043.07827.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
Message-ID: 

En Mon, 31 Aug 2009 05:43:07 -0300, Hendrik van Rooyen  
 escribi?:
> On Monday 31 August 2009 06:55:52 elsa wrote:
>
>> (Ultimately, I want to call myFunc(myList[0], 'booHoo'), myFunc(myList
>> [1], 'booHoo'), myFunc(myList[2], 'booHoo') etc. However, I might want
>> to call myFunc(myList[0], 'woo'), myFunc(myList[1], 'woo'), myFunc
>> (myList[2], 'woo') some other time).
>
> Here is some heretical advice:
>
> Do not use stuff like map and reduce unless they fit what you want to do
> perfectly, and "JustWorks" the first time.

I think of that advice as "orthodox", not "heretical"! (functional guys  
are minority here...)

> You have a very clear idea of what you want to do, so why do you not just
> simply write something to do it?
>
> something like this (untested):
>
> def woofer(thefunc,thelist,thething):
> 	theanswers = []
> 	for x in thelist:
> 		theanswers.append(thefunc(x,thething))
> 	return theanswers
>
> And the advantage is that you do not have to remember what map does...

This block:

	theanswers = []
	for x in thelist:
		theanswers.append(thefunc(x,thething))

is formally the same as this one:

	theanswers = [thefunc(x,thething) for x in thelist]

but the list comprehension is faster. So the function becomes:

def woofer(thefunc,thelist,thething):
	return [thefunc(x,thething) for x in thelist]

and may be inlined (it's usually easier to read).

> *ducks away from the inevitable flames*

*fights back to back with you against heretics*

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From piet at cs.uu.nl  Mon Aug 31 05:31:34 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 11:31:34 +0200
Subject: map
References: <777de4d8-e591-4d21-bbd0-b286105895bc@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Hendrik van Rooyen  (HvR) wrote:

>HvR> On Monday 31 August 2009 06:55:52 elsa wrote:
>HvR> 8< --------- map question ----------------------------

>>> 
>>> (Ultimately, I want to call myFunc(myList[0], 'booHoo'), myFunc(myList
>>> [1], 'booHoo'), myFunc(myList[2], 'booHoo') etc. However, I might want
>>> to call myFunc(myList[0], 'woo'), myFunc(myList[1], 'woo'), myFunc
>>> (myList[2], 'woo') some other time).

>HvR> Here is some heretical advice:

>HvR> Do not use stuff like map and reduce unless they fit what you want to do 
>HvR> perfectly, and "JustWorks" the first time.

>HvR> You have a very clear idea of what you want to do, so why do you not just 
>HvR> simply write something to do it?

>HvR> something like this (untested):

>HvR> def woofer(thefunc,thelist,thething):
>HvR> 	theanswers = []
>HvR> 	for x in thelist:
>HvR> 		theanswers.append(thefunc(x,thething))
>HvR> 	return theanswers

>HvR> And the advantage is that you do not have to remember what map does...

Map should be in every good programmer's toolbox. So (s)he presumably
knows already what map does. In order to follow your advise (s)he must
first forget what map does :=)

Agreed on the part that map shouldn't be used indiscriminately. Neither
should loops. Your woofer is much harder to follow than map, I think.

[myFunc(elt, 'booHoo') for elt in myList] is also a good candidate and
in this case I think it is preferable to both the loop and the map with
a partial or lambda in terms of clarity.

On the other hand when you just want to call a function on each element
of a list and you don't need to collect the result a simple loop is
often preferable.

But ultimately it is also very much a matter of taste, preference and habit.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From jacopo.pecci at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 05:44:23 2009
From: jacopo.pecci at gmail.com (jacopo)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 02:44:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: starting a client remotely
Message-ID: <7013f2ee-3076-4abf-b609-18c023d3e28a@f33g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>

I am playing with multiprocessing and I would like to have a python
script on one machine which initialize my whole system, in other
words, this script should start the server (a python script) on my
local machine and the clients (python scripts) on the other machines
in my local network.

Would you have any suggestion?

regards, jacopo


From deets at nospam.web.de  Mon Aug 31 05:47:44 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 11:47:44 +0200
Subject: starting a client remotely
References: <7013f2ee-3076-4abf-b609-18c023d3e28a@f33g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7g1ki0F2nifhkU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

jacopo wrote:

> I am playing with multiprocessing and I would like to have a python
> script on one machine which initialize my whole system, in other
> words, this script should start the server (a python script) on my
> local machine and the clients (python scripts) on the other machines
> in my local network.
> 
> Would you have any suggestion?

This isn't possible witout some kind of service running on the remote
machine. You don't write what OS you are using, on unix'ish machines this
can be easily accomplished using SSH to invoke a remote-command that starts
your server. I've used that + Pyro in the past to create distributed
systems.

Diez


From jacopo.pecci at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 05:58:34 2009
From: jacopo.pecci at gmail.com (jacopo)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 02:58:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Return value of multiprocessing manager registerred function
References: <4337084f-cf9b-4b9c-a0cc-ba8f0821f31a@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

Hi Terry,
I have just started working on similar things and I am strugling to
find examples or documentations. So far I have found only the official
documentation of the multiprocessing package. Would you be able to
recommend me some good reference or a book. I dont want to overwhelm
this newsgroup with questions... yet :)
Regards, Jacopo

On Aug 26, 4:22?am, Terry  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm using the multiprocessing.manager to run proceduresremotely. It
> all worked fine except I hope to have a different return value type.
>
> The remote function calls always return a proxy, which when I need to
> get the value it need to connect to the manager again to fetch it. But
> I just need the value, not the proxy.
>
> Can I just return the value instead of a proxy from a manager?
>
> br, Terry



From paul at boddie.org.uk  Mon Aug 31 06:00:58 2009
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 03:00:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	 
	
	
	 
	 
	<1ab2c088-bead-43fa-bf4a-3e7f4d84e871@g1g2000vbr.googlegroups.com> 
	<59cad1ba-1162-4227-9375-d132ef030a7b@d21g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <5a3acf8a-0f5f-4743-a477-f5dc2978d4ed@r36g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>

On 31 Aug, 00:28, r  wrote:
>
> I said it before and i will say it again. I DON"T CARE WHAT LANGUAGE
> WE USE AS LONG AS IT IS A MODERN LANGUAGE FOUNDED ON IDEALS OF
> SIMPLICITY!!!!

[Esperanto]

> English is by far already the de-facto lingua franca throughout the
> world.

You don't care, but here it comes: English! And is it a language
"founded on ideals of simplicity"? I suggest you familiarise yourself
with the history of the English language.

[...]

> You can deny the holocaust all you want but it still happened and so
> too shall the great unity! Sadly because of cultural and social
> fanatics like yourself, it will probably take another great war to
> usher in the new order.

Now you are just being offensive.

[...]

> So you are advocating for me to use derogatory statements in my post,
> no thanks i need not resort to adolescent rants to argue my points.

So what was the bulk of your opening message in this thread or the
kind of gutter remarks made above if not "adolescent rants"?

> And why do you continue to compare me to XL. Has XL *ever* helped a
> python user in this forum? I have, many times. I am *actually* a
> python programmer who cares about Python and my posts bring much vigor
> and intelligence to an otherwise boring NG -- like me or not.

Whether you actually care about Python or not, I repeat my suggestion
that you take rants of this nature out of this forum and to a more
appropriate place. At the very time the community seeks to increase
diversity, such material is not only insensitive towards those who do
not share your own cultural and political background, it also
demonstrates a total lack of awareness of the kind of community people
are trying to build and sustain.

And don't give us the "livening up the newsgroup" excuse. The only
reason people use newsgroups like this for their political posturing
is analogous to a football player bursting into a chess club and
claiming superiority in his own sport over those whose pastime has
been interrupted: he knows that in a more suitable venue, his
inadequacy would quickly be revealed by active practitioners of the
discipline. Take your material elsewhere - maybe then the historians,
linguists and sociologists will give you the tuition you so richly
deserve!

Paul


From piet at cs.uu.nl  Mon Aug 31 06:04:01 2009
From: piet at cs.uu.nl (Piet van Oostrum)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 12:04:01 +0200
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
References: 
	
	
	
	<0022fef9$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>
	
	<725bcd4c-01ed-489d-baa4-288a5c492831@m20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

>>>>> Derek Martin  (DM) wrote:

>DM> On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 03:42:06AM -0700, Paul McGuire wrote:

>>> Is it any odder that 3 is an object than that the string literal
>>> "Hello, World!" is an object?  

>DM> Yes.  Because 3 is a fundamental bit of data that the hardware knows
>DM> how to deal with, requiring no higher level abstractions for the
>DM> programmer to use it (though certainly, a programming language can
>DM> provide them, if it is convenient).  "Hello, World!" is not.  They are
>DM> fundamentally different in that way.

How the semantics of Python is defined is not dependent of the hardware.
You could imagine a computer where strings are as much built into the
hardware as ints are. On the other hand you could also imagine a
computer that only knows about bits and where int arithmetic has to be
done in software. In fact early microprocessors only could operate
directly on bytes and arithmetic of larger ints was in software. And
even nowadays there are processors in use that don't have built-in
floating point hardware. Would you say that considering whether 3.14 is
an object in Python or whether that is to be considered strange should
depend on the availability of a floating point unit in the hardware
where the program runs? Would that make floating point numbers
"fundamentally different" from ints in the sense described above?
-- 
Piet van Oostrum 
URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
Private email: piet at vanoostrum.org


From jacopo.pecci at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 06:08:04 2009
From: jacopo.pecci at gmail.com (jacopo)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 03:08:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: starting a client remotely
References: <7013f2ee-3076-4abf-b609-18c023d3e28a@f33g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<7g1ki0F2nifhkU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <7a3cbeba-7338-45b3-aff8-7840a322b185@r33g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>

thank you Diez,
unfortunatelly I am on Windows NT.
Did you use SSH in a python script?
Isn't multiprocessing.managers already doing something like Pyro?


thanks
Jacopo


On Aug 31, 12:47?pm, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
> jacopo wrote:
> > I am playing with multiprocessing and I would like to have a python
> > script on one machine which initialize my whole system, in other
> > words, this script should start the server (a python script) on my
> > local machine and the clients (python scripts) on the other machines
> > in my local network.
>
> > Would you have any suggestion?
>
> This isn't possible witout some kind of service running on the remote
> machine. You don't write what OS you are using, on unix'ish machines this
> can be easily accomplished using SSH to invoke a remote-command that starts
> your server. I've used that + Pyro in the past to create distributed
> systems.
>
> Diez



From xi at gamma.dn.ua  Mon Aug 31 06:14:18 2009
From: xi at gamma.dn.ua (Kirill Simonov)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 13:14:18 +0300
Subject: [ANN] PyYAML-3.09: YAML parser and emitter for Python
Message-ID: <4A9BA27A.10507@gamma.dn.ua>

========================
  Announcing PyYAML-3.09
========================

A new bug fix release of PyYAML is now available:

     http://pyyaml.org/wiki/PyYAML

Note that PyYAML supports both Python 2 and Python 3.  For
compatibility notes, please see

     http://pyyaml.org/wiki/PyYAMLDocumentation#Python3support


Changes
=======

* Fixed compatibility issues with Python 3.1.
* Fixed use of uninitialized memory when emitting anchors with
   LibYAML bindings (Thank to cegner(at)yahoo-inc(dot)com).
* Fixed emitting incorrect BOM characters for UTF-16 (Thank to
   Valentin Nechayev)
* Fixed the emitter for folded scalars not respecting the preferred
   line width (Thank to Ingy).
* Fixed a subtle ordering issue with emitting '%TAG' directives
   (Thank to Andrey Somov).
* Fixed performance regression with LibYAML bindings.


Resources
=========

PyYAML homepage: http://pyyaml.org/wiki/PyYAML
PyYAML documentation: http://pyyaml.org/wiki/PyYAMLDocumentation

TAR.GZ package: http://pyyaml.org/download/pyyaml/PyYAML-3.09.tar.gz
ZIP package: http://pyyaml.org/download/pyyaml/PyYAML-3.09.zip
Windows installers:
     http://pyyaml.org/download/pyyaml/PyYAML-3.09.win32-py2.3.exe
     http://pyyaml.org/download/pyyaml/PyYAML-3.09.win32-py2.4.exe
     http://pyyaml.org/download/pyyaml/PyYAML-3.09.win32-py2.5.exe
     http://pyyaml.org/download/pyyaml/PyYAML-3.09.win32-py2.6.exe
     http://pyyaml.org/download/pyyaml/PyYAML-3.09.win32-py3.0.exe
     http://pyyaml.org/download/pyyaml/PyYAML-3.09.win32-py3.1.exe

PyYAML SVN repository: http://svn.pyyaml.org/pyyaml
Submit a bug report: http://pyyaml.org/newticket?component=pyyaml

YAML homepage: http://yaml.org/
YAML-core mailing list: 
http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/yaml-core


About PyYAML
============

YAML is a data serialization format designed for human readability and
interaction with scripting languages.  PyYAML is a YAML parser and
emitter for Python.

PyYAML features a complete YAML 1.1 parser, Unicode support, pickle
support, capable extension API, and sensible error messages.  PyYAML
supports standard YAML tags and provides Python-specific tags that allow
to represent an arbitrary Python object.

PyYAML is applicable for a broad range of tasks from complex
configuration files to object serialization and persistance.


Example
=======

 >>> import yaml

 >>> yaml.load("""
... name: PyYAML
... description: YAML parser and emitter for Python
... homepage: http://pyyaml.org/wiki/PyYAML
... keywords: [YAML, serialization, configuration, persistance, pickle]
... """)
{'keywords': ['YAML', 'serialization', 'configuration', 'persistance',
'pickle'], 'homepage': 'http://pyyaml.org/wiki/PyYAML', 'description':
'YAML parser and emitter for Python', 'name': 'PyYAML'}

 >>> print yaml.dump(_)
name: PyYAML
homepage: http://pyyaml.org/wiki/PyYAML
description: YAML parser and emitter for Python
keywords: [YAML, serialization, configuration, persistance, pickle]


Copyright
=========

The PyYAML module is written by Kirill Simonov .

PyYAML is released under the MIT license.


From deets at nospam.web.de  Mon Aug 31 06:35:44 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 12:35:44 +0200
Subject: starting a client remotely
References: <7013f2ee-3076-4abf-b609-18c023d3e28a@f33g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<7g1ki0F2nifhkU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<7a3cbeba-7338-45b3-aff8-7840a322b185@r33g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7g1nc0F2mjpocU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

jacopo wrote:

> thank you Diez,
> unfortunatelly I am on Windows NT.
> Did you use SSH in a python script?

Via subprocess, yes. Paramiko would be a way, too.

> Isn't multiprocessing.managers already doing something like Pyro?

I never used it, so I don't know - but it appears to be, yes. Doesn't change
the overall problem though - without an inroad to another server, you can't
spawn processes on remote machines.

Diez


From gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar  Mon Aug 31 06:46:06 2009
From: gagsl-py2 at yahoo.com.ar (Gabriel Genellina)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 07:46:06 -0300
Subject: starting a client remotely
References: <7013f2ee-3076-4abf-b609-18c023d3e28a@f33g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<7g1ki0F2nifhkU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<7a3cbeba-7338-45b3-aff8-7840a322b185@r33g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

> On Aug 31, 12:47?pm, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
>> jacopo wrote:
>> > I am playing with multiprocessing and I would like to have a python
>> > script on one machine which initialize my whole system, in other
>> > words, this script should start the server (a python script) on my
>> > local machine and the clients (python scripts) on the other machines
>> > in my local network.

En Mon, 31 Aug 2009 07:08:04 -0300, jacopo   
escribi?:

> thank you Diez,
> unfortunatelly I am on Windows NT.

NT 4.0???
I was going to say "use the rexec command" but I think it's posterior to  
the Triasic-Jurasic extinction event :)

-- 
Gabriel Genellina



From bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid  Mon Aug 31 07:25:12 2009
From: bruno.42.desthuilliers at websiteburo.invalid (Bruno Desthuilliers)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 13:25:12 +0200
Subject: Object's nesting scope
In-Reply-To: <440b8caf-27f9-49d4-8d1b-94f93c75eb23@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	<7fkqodF2llnghU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>
	<1ea2a98f-4035-4ec6-b5a9-06b21dd6f584@c14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
	<4a97c851$0$307$426a74cc@news.free.fr>
	<440b8caf-27f9-49d4-8d1b-94f93c75eb23@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4a9bb2ee$0$10244$426a74cc@news.free.fr>

zaur a ?crit :
> On 28 ???, 16:07, Bruno Desthuilliers  42.desthuilli... at websiteburo.invalid> wrote:
>> zaur a ?crit :
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 26 ???, 17:13, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
>>>> Whom am we to judge? Sure if you propose this, you have some usecases in
>>>> mind - how about you present these
>>> Ok. Here is a use case: object initialization.
>>> For example,
>>> person = Person():
>>>   name = "john"
>>>   age = 30
>>>   address = Address():
>>>      street = "Green Street"
>>>      no = 12
>>> vs.
>>> person = Person()
>>> person.name = "john"
>>> person.age = 30
>>> address = person.address = Address()
>>> address.street = "Green Street"
>>> address.no = 12

>> Err... Looks like you really should read the FineManual(tm) -
>> specifically, the parts on the __init__ method.
>>
>> class Person(object):
>>     def __init__(self, name, age, address):
>>         self.name = name
>>         self.age = age
>>         self.address = address
>>
>> class Address(object):
>>     def __init__(self, street, no):
>>         self.no = no
>>         self.street = street
>>
>> person = Person(
>>     name="john",
>>     age=30,
>>     address = Address(
>>         street="Green Street",
>>         no=12
>>     )
>> )
> 
> What are you doing if 1) classes Person and Address imported from
> foreign module 2) __init__ method is not defined as you want?

Either 1/write an alternate initializer and bind it to the appropriate 
classes or 2/write factory functions:

1/

from foreign_module import Person, Address

def my_init(self, **kw):
     for k, v in kw.items():
         setattr(self, k, v)
     return self

Person.init = my_init
Address.init = my_init

person = Person().init(
      name="john",
      age=30,
      address = Address().init(
          street="Green Street",
          no=12
      )
  )


2/

from functools import partial
import foreign_module

def my_factory(cls, **kw):
     obj = cls()
     for k, v in kw.items():
         setattr(obj, k, v)
     return obj

Person = partial(my_factory, foreign_module.Person)
Address = partial(my_factory, foreign_module.Address)

person = Person(
      name="john",
      age=30,
      address = Address(
          street="Green Street",
          no=12
      )
  )



From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Mon Aug 31 08:16:57 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 31 Aug 2009 12:16:57 GMT
Subject: map
References: <777de4d8-e591-4d21-bbd0-b286105895bc@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <002542bb$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:43:07 +0200, Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:

> Here is some heretical advice:
> 
> Do not use stuff like map and reduce unless they fit what you want to do
> perfectly, and "JustWorks" the first time.
> 
> You have a very clear idea of what you want to do, so why do you not
> just simply write something to do it?

That's not heretical advice -- that's pretty standard, vanilla, boring 
advice. It's probably good advice, if you care more about Getting the Job 
Done than about learning the language.


> And the advantage is that you do not have to remember what map does...

map() is probably the simplest, most straightforward of the functional 
tools in Python. It's harder for me to remember it's name than to 
remember what it does: it applies a function to each element of a list, 
instead of two the entire list as a single argument. Easy-peasy.

> *ducks away from the inevitable flames*

You'll have to try harder than that to get flamed :)



-- 
Steven


From hendrik at microcorp.co.za  Mon Aug 31 09:44:30 2009
From: hendrik at microcorp.co.za (Hendrik van Rooyen)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 15:44:30 +0200
Subject: map
In-Reply-To: 
References: <777de4d8-e591-4d21-bbd0-b286105895bc@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <200908311544.30746.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>

On Monday 31 August 2009 11:31:34 Piet van Oostrum wrote:

> But ultimately it is also very much a matter of taste, preference and
> habit.

This is true, but there is another reason that I posted - I have noticed that 
there seems to be a tendency amongst newcomers to the group to go to great 
lengths to find something that will do exactly what they want, irrespective 
of the inherent complexity or lack thereof of that which they are trying to 
do.

Now I cannot understand why this is - one could say that it is caused by an 
eagerness to understand all the corners of the tool that is python, but 
somehow it does not feel like that to me - I see it almost as a crisis of 
confidence - as if the newbie lacks the self confidence to believe that he or 
she is capable of doing anything independently.  

So whenever I can, I try to encourage people to just do it their way, and to 
see what happens, and to hack using the interactive interpreter, to build 
confidence by experimenting and making mistakes, and realizing that when you 
have made a mistake, it is not the end of the world,  - you can fix it and 
move on.

Don't know if this rant makes any sense...

- Hendrik



From kw at codebykevin.com  Mon Aug 31 09:52:13 2009
From: kw at codebykevin.com (Kevin Walzer)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 09:52:13 -0400
Subject: An assessment of Tkinter and IDLE
In-Reply-To: <827effaa-d0f7-4142-b4b9-6f9f8e0e7963@e34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
References: <55a0833d-3f1f-402a-8eb7-cb4b7861cce5@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	
	<1010dd16-fa92-46b6-8391-b8a701704472@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	
	<827effaa-d0f7-4142-b4b9-6f9f8e0e7963@e34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A9BD58D.3060808@codebykevin.com>

On 8/28/09 8:11 PM, r wrote:
> On Aug 28, 5:48 pm, Mark Roseman  wrote:
> (snip)
>> Thewww.tkdocs.comsite is 'language neutral' - currently the tutorial
>> covers Tcl, Perl, Ruby and yes Python, and allows you to switch between
>> any of those languages (or show all of them).
>
> True, however the coverage is incomplete. I would back this site if we
> can get a complete coverage of all widgets in the Python language.
>
> +0.1

Are you certain the site is incomplete? Its coverage of the basic Tk and 
Ttk  widgets is spectacular. . Its coverage of layout techinques and 
best practices for organizing complex interfaces with Tk is also 
extremely valuable. I wish this site had been around when I was learning 
Tk five years ago. I've looked at just about every Tk and Tkinter 
tutorial site out there, and this one surpasses them all. Mark 
Roseman--a professional, independent software developer whose commercial 
products almost all incorporate Tk into their GUI's--has spent a couple 
of years putting together this site with input from various users and 
developers (myself included). It's now an absolutely indispensible 
resource for beginners and more experienced developers.

The reason the site does not cover 'all widgets in the Python language' 
is threefold:

1. It's a site about Tk, a tookit that has Python bindings and bindings 
to other languages also (Ruby, Perl, Tcl, etc.).
2. It omits additional Python-specific, Tkinter-based widget sets such 
as PMW, Tix, etc. because once you understand the basics of Tk, then 
grokking these other megawidget sets (which all build on top of Tk) 
should be pretty straightforward.
3. Finally, 'all widgets in the Python language' gets into other tookits 
as well, which is obviously unfeasible for a website.

If the site by itself isn't enough for you, or is a bit too basic in its 
coverage of Python techniques, then there are other options. Couple the 
TkDocs site with effbot's more advanced walk through the various Tkinter 
classes, and perhaps one or two of the other Tkinter-specific tutorials, 
and you'll have learned a lot. But I think the TkDocs site is essential, 
especially in its more advanced discussion of how to put together an 
attractive, polished user interface with Tk. Tk has a long-standing 
reputation of being the toolkit of choice for quick, simple, ugly 
interfaces, and the other resources I've mentioned do nothing to to 
change this. The practices that Mark Roseman discusses will allow one to 
eventually put together a UI that matches anything that the other big 
toolkits (wxPython, PyQt, PyObjC, PyGtk, etc.) can do.

Hope this helps,
Kevin

-- 
Kevin Walzer
Code by Kevin
http://www.codebykevin.com


From xahlee at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 10:00:43 2009
From: xahlee at gmail.com (Xah Lee)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 07:00:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?Math_Notations=2C_Computer_Languages=2C_and_the_=93Form?=
	=?windows-1252?Q?=94_in_Formalism?=
Message-ID: <8f621b1f-a259-44dd-a6c4-231fa708ace7@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>

? Math Notations, Computer Languages, and the ?Form? in Formalism
  http://xahlee.org/cmaci/notation/index.html

plain text version follows. (lacks links)

-----------------------------
Math Notations, Computer Languages, and the ?Form? in Formalism

Xah Lee, 2009-08-31

This page is a collection of essays and expositions on the subjects of
nomenclature and notations in math and computer languages, in the
context of facilitating human communication and theorem proving
systems.

Most of these essays here are originally from email, blogs, or rants.
They are not of publication quality, and they are not a coherent
exposition the subject. Here's a very brief summary of of these
essays's central thesis:

? Traditional math notations are very inconsistent. Edsger Dijkstra is
a leader in a movement of what's called Calculational Proofs. That is,
using a notation that is consistent and facilitates the calculation
aspects when doing math by humans.

? Today, especially since 1990s, tremendous advances are made in
computer algebra systems and theorem proving systems. In these
languages, a coherent syntax, grammar, are needed for math
expressions.

? In computer algebra or theorem proving systems, they are intimately
tied to the math philosophies of formalism and logicism. In a sense,
formalism and logicism today are tied together as a single subject,
and using computer languages as foundation.

? Math expressions/syntax in computer languages are intimately tied to
math notations for human reading. (e.g. Mathematical, MathML are
technologies that combine the two.)

? The syntax and grammar of today's computer languages, such as Java,
C, Python, SQL, Lisp, are ad-hoc and their communities have little
understanding of the knowledge gained in math related fields such as
computer algebra or theorem proving languages. (This applies to
functional langs such as Haskell as well, but to a lesser degree.) On
the other hand, mathematicians in general are illiterate about
programing or using computer languages.

All of the above considered together, computer language designers and
mathematicians, should be made aware of these issues, so that when
they design or use computer languages, may it be math oriented or not,
the language's syntax and grammar can move towards a consistent syntax
system with solid foundation (as opposed to ad-hoc), and such language
should have build-in markup or simple mapping to 2-dimensional
notations for human reading (such as done with Mathematica or Semantic
MathML), and this computer language should be in fact as a basis of
theorem prover or computer algebra system (as in OCaml, Haskell,
Mathematica). The languages of computer algebra and theorem prover
would in fact merge together into one single subject if it is not
already slowly happening today.

Progress in the above issues are made in different fields but there
are little unification going on.

For example, there's Edsger Dijkstra's Calculational Proofs movement.
It improves math notations towards consistency and formalism. However,
people in Calculational Proofs movement are mostly math pedagogy
community i think. They are not programers interested in computer
languages, nor logicians interested in math formalism, or industrial
and commercial organizations interested in math notation
representation systems.

There's the computer algebra community, such as Mathematica, Maple,
Matlab, which requires a syntax and grammar for mathematical concepts.
There's the theorem proving community, such as OCaml, Coq, HOL, which
not only requires a syntax for math concepts, but also made major
understanding about math as a system of forms, i.e. formal systems.
Both computer algebra and theorem proving systems require math
notations and computer language syntax that are consistent and can
represent math concepts. However, the 2 camps are largely separate
communities. For example, there is as far as i know no tool that is
both a practical computer algebra system as well as a theorem proving
language.

Common computer languages, such as C, Java, Python, requires a good
syntax, parsers, and compilers, but their community, including
computer scientists and programers, are usually illiterate in typical
topics of of mathematics proper. Functional languages, such as Scheme
Lisp, APL, OCaml, Haskell, are more based on logic foundations (lambda
calculus) but their syntax and grammar has little to do with the math
notations as a logic or formal system. (these languages do not have a
formal spec in the sense of Formlism, i.e. transformation of forms. In
fact, almost no languages has a formal spec, formalism or not.)

There's math notation representation needs, such as TeX, MathCAD,
MathML, Mathematica. These are typically commercial organizations in
the computing industry. They can render math notations. In the case of
MathML and Mathematica, the language also represent the semantic
content of math notations. These two made major understanding about
the relation of math notations and computer languages, but they in
general have little to do with formalism or theorem proving. (with
some exception of Mathematica)

Calculational proof notational system, Computer algebra systems,
theorem prover languages, formalism and logicism as foundation of
mathematics, functional languages, and computer languages in general,
mathematics and its notations, all are in fact can be considered as a
single subject with a unified goal. All the technologies and movements
exist, but today they have mostly not come together. For example,
Microsoft Equaton Editor, TeX, and various other tools does well with
math notation rendering. MathML has both representational and semantic
aspects (OpenMath is a new group that focus on semantic aspects), for
the purpose of rendering as well semantic representation. Mathematica
is a computer algebra system for solving arbitrary math equations,
that is also able to represent math notation as a computer language,
so that computation can be done with math notation directly. However,
the system lacks a foundation as a theorem prover. Theorem provers
such as OCaml (HOL, Coq), Mizar does math formalism as a foundation,
also function as a generic computer language, but lacks abilities as a
computer algebra system or math notation representation.

Notations

    * The Codification of Mathematics
    * State Of Theorem Proving Systems 2008
    * The Problems of Traditional Math Notation

    * A Notation for Plane Geometry

    * the Moronicity of the Expositions of Common Mathematicians
(rant)

    * Fundamental Problems of Lisp (see section 1, on the importance
for regularity of syntax)
    * The Concepts and Confusions of Prefix, Infix, Postfix and Fully
Functional Notations
    * The Moronicities of Typography

Jargons

Math

    * Math Terminology and Naming of Things
    * Math Jargons Explained
    * Politics and the English Language, 1946, by George Orwell.

Harm Of Bad Terminologies In Computing Languages

    * The Importance of Terminology's Quality In A Computer Language
    * What are OOP's Jargons and Complexities?
    * Java's Abuse of the Jargon ?Interface? and API
    * Jargons of Info Tech Industry
    * The Term Currying In Computer Science
    * Function Application is not Currying
    * Why You should Not Use The Jargon Lisp1 and Lisp2
    * The Jargon ?Tail Recursion?
    * What Is Closure In A Programing Language
    * Jargons And High Level Languages (unpolished essay)
    * Why You Should Avoid The Jargon ?Tail Recursion?
    * I Can Not Find A Word Better Than ?CAR?

Harm of Mixing Concept of Syntax and Formatting

    * The TeX Pestilence
    * The Harm of hard-wrapping Lines (harm of confusing syntax with
formatting)
    * Tabs versus Spaces in Source Code (harm of treating syntax as
formatting instead of syntax)

Applications of Regular Syntax

    * A Text Editor Feature: Syntax Tree Walk (application of syntax)
    * A Simple Lisp Code Formatter (application of syntax regularity)

References

    * ?Mathematica Notation: Past and Future? (2000-10-20), by Stephen
Wolfram, at http://www.stephenwolfram.com/publications/recent/mathml/index.html.
    * Functional Mathematics, by Raymond Boute, 2006. http://www.funmath.be/
    * Formalized Mathematics, by John Harrison, 1996-08-13.
http://www.rbjones.com/rbjpub/logic/jrh0100.htm
    * ?How Computing Science created a new mathematical style?. (1990)
By Edsger W Dijkstra. EWD1073
    * ?Under the spell of Leibniz's dream? (2000) By Edsger W
Dijkstra. EWD1298
    * Abuse of notation
    * Formal system


From nitebirdz at sacredchaos.com  Mon Aug 31 10:21:11 2009
From: nitebirdz at sacredchaos.com (Nitebirdz)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 16:21:11 +0200
Subject: Suggestion
In-Reply-To: <7aa29e790908290212h17d27593u52d1a90b3e785386@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7aa29e790908290212h17d27593u52d1a90b3e785386@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090831142109.GA7611@sevilla.sacredchaos.com>

On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 02:42:36PM +0530, Thangappan.M wrote:
> Dear all,
> 
>          I am in the process of learning Python programming language. I know
> Perl,PHP. Compare to both the language Python impressed me because here
> there is no lexical variables and all.Now I need suggestion saying that ,
> What online book can I follow?
> 
>          I have not yet learnt any advanced programming stuffs in Python.
> Please suggest some book? or tutorial. net net my goal is that I will be
> able to do the project in any languages(Python,Perl,PHP).So I need to learn
> more depth knowledge of Python.
> 
> So Please help me?
> 

Thangappan,


I'm no expert, but perhaps the following book will be of some help:

http://diveintopython.org/


There are plenty of tutorials on the web too.  Just do a quick search
for something like "python tutorial".  




From wiggly at wiggly.org  Mon Aug 31 10:36:46 2009
From: wiggly at wiggly.org (Nigel Rantor)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 15:36:46 +0100
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
In-Reply-To: <200908311019.58029.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>	<3e9ddb9b-8f61-4d8d-a25c-7e95e8a25c06@g1g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>	
	<200908311019.58029.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
Message-ID: <4A9BDFFE.2040402@wiggly.org>

Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:
> On Sunday 30 August 2009 22:46:49 Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> 
>> 	Rather elitist viewpoint... Why don't we just drop nukes on some 60%
>> of populated landmasses that don't have a "western" culture and avoid
>> the whole problem?
> 
> Now yer talking, boyo!  It will surely help with the basic problem which is 
> the heavy infestation of people on the planet!
> :-)


On two conditions:

1) We drop some "test" bombs on Slough to satisfy Betjeman.

2) We strap both Xah and r to aforementioned bombs.



Also, I'm surprised no-one has mentioned Esperanto yet. Sounds like 
something r and Xah would *love*.

Slightly off-topic - does anyone have a good recipe for getting 
thunderbird to kill whole threads for good? Either based on a rule or 
just some extension I can use?

The Xah/r threads are like car crashes, I can't help but watch but my 
time could be better spent and I don't want to unsub the whole list.


Cheers,

   n


From nitebirdz at sacredchaos.com  Mon Aug 31 10:40:50 2009
From: nitebirdz at sacredchaos.com (Nitebirdz)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 16:40:50 +0200
Subject: a popen command line question
In-Reply-To: <964997.10840.qm@web36907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <964997.10840.qm@web36907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090831144049.GB7611@sevilla.sacredchaos.com>

On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 01:13:12PM -0700, Joni Lee wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I write a small script
> 
> status = os.popen('top').readlines()
> print status
> 
> It calls the command line "top" and will print out the status.
> But I have to press the keyboard "q" to quit "top", then the status
> will be printed, otherwise it just stands by with blank.
> 
> Question is. Do you know how to give "q" into my python script so that
> "top" is automatically quit immediately or maybe after 1s (for
> gathering information)
> 

Why not run the actual 'top' command in batch mode with only one
iteration?  It's in the man page.  I'm referring to this:

  status = os.popen('top -b -n 1').readlines()


Also, the following approach seems to display a nicer output:

-------------------------------------------------
#!/usr/bin/env python

import os

status=os.popen('top -b -n 1')
for i in status.readlines():
  print i
-------------------------------------------------


Or how about the following?

-------------------------------------------------
#!/usr/bin/env python

import commands

status=commands.getoutput('top -b -n 1')
print status
-------------------------------------------------


Mind you, I'm just suggesting different approaches.  I'm new to Python
and don't necessarily know what I'm doing.  Other more experienced
people may be able to suggest something better.




From kyosohma at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 10:53:27 2009
From: kyosohma at gmail.com (Mike Driscoll)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 07:53:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: IDE for Python
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Aug 29, 1:08?pm, ivanko.... at gmail.com wrote:
> 29.08.2009 4:14 ???????????? "Thangappan.M"  ?
> ???????:
>
> > Dear all,
> > Please suggest some good IDE for python.I am working in linux platform.
> > --
> > Regards,
> > Thangappan.M
>
> You can use Eclipse + PyDev or Emacs+PythonMode . Also there are Anjuta and ?
> Code:Blocks, but they are designed mainly for C++ (but still can be used).

Don't forget Wingware IDE. Admittedly, it's not free (except for a
limited version), but it's pretty good. There's also SPE (Stani's
Python Editor). If you want a nigh-complete list, check the Python
wiki:

http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonEditors

-------------------
Mike Driscoll

Blog:   http://blog.pythonlibrary.org



From cmpython at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 11:32:19 2009
From: cmpython at gmail.com (Che M)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 08:32:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: IDE for Python
References:  
	
Message-ID: <0f5f01d3-220e-4ef8-b55b-0f88f58a0afd@b18g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 31, 10:53?am, Mike Driscoll  wrote:
> On Aug 29, 1:08?pm, ivanko.... at gmail.com wrote:
>
> > 29.08.2009 4:14 ???????????? "Thangappan.M"  ?
> > ???????:
>
> > > Dear all,
> > > Please suggest some good IDE for python.I am working in linux platform.
> > > --
> > > Regards,
> > > Thangappan.M
>
> > You can use Eclipse + PyDev or Emacs+PythonMode . Also there are Anjuta and ?
> > Code:Blocks, but they are designed mainly for C++ (but still can be used).
>
> Don't forget Wingware IDE. Admittedly, it's not free (except for a
> limited version), but it's pretty good. There's also SPE (Stani's
> Python Editor). If you want a nigh-complete list, check the Python
> wiki:
>
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonEditors

Not sure when an editor gets to be called an IDE, but while on the
site
that OP should check out this related page:

http://wiki.python.org/moin/IntegratedDevelopmentEnvironments



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Aug 31 11:36:03 2009
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 11:36:03 -0400
Subject: An assessment of Tkinter and IDLE
In-Reply-To: <4A9BD58D.3060808@codebykevin.com>
References: <55a0833d-3f1f-402a-8eb7-cb4b7861cce5@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>		<1010dd16-fa92-46b6-8391-b8a701704472@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>		<827effaa-d0f7-4142-b4b9-6f9f8e0e7963@e34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<4A9BD58D.3060808@codebykevin.com>
Message-ID: 

Kevin Walzer wrote:
www.tkdocs.com

[snip]

> and you'll have learned a lot. But I think the TkDocs site is essential, 
> especially in its more advanced discussion of how to put together an 
> attractive, polished user interface with Tk. Tk has a long-standing 
> reputation of being the toolkit of choice for quick, simple, ugly 
> interfaces, and the other resources I've mentioned do nothing to to 
> change this. The practices that Mark Roseman discusses will allow one to 
> eventually put together a UI that matches anything that the other big 
> toolkits (wxPython, PyQt, PyObjC, PyGtk, etc.) can do.
> 
> Hope this helps,

It persuaded me to go and start reading. A couple of things of interest.

"It would be a great help if you could have a look around, provide any 
comments, corrections or suggestions, or even help fill in some of the 
missing pieces. "

so no pretense of completeness yet.

"In the near future, the plan is to continue refining the tutorial, 
mainly finishing up the rest of the Perl and Python examples."

And from the linked blog

"July 09, 2009
Python material in progress.

While not yet complete, I've managed to add a very hefty chunk of Python 
material to the tutorial. I should be able to complete the rest over the 
next week or so. Would definitely appreciate feedback from any 
Pythonistas on the existing material.

While I hadn't used it before, I think Tkinter may very well be the 
nicest interface to Tk next to Tcl's (for which Tk was originally 
designed of course, so you'd expect a bit of an advantage). For people 
unfamiliar with either language, I think Python's more conventional use 
of parentheses for functions, the "option=value" syntax, plus other 
language features it takes advantage of are very attractive and win out 
over Tcl. The two main parts that I think Tcl does in a nicer way are 
event bindings and the fact you can create and geometry manage a widget 
in one statement, while still keeping a handle to a widget around.

UPDATE July 17/2009: Most of the rest of the Python examples and code 
snippets have been added.
"

tjr



From http  Mon Aug 31 11:46:42 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 31 Aug 2009 08:46:42 -0700
Subject: map
References: <777de4d8-e591-4d21-bbd0-b286105895bc@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xzl9gkmu5.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

elsa  writes:
> map(myFunc(b='booHoo'), myList)
> 
> Why doesn't this work? is there a way to make it work?

You can use functools.partial but a listcomp might be simpler:

   list(myfunc(a, b='booHoo') for a in myList)

There is another listcomp syntax with square brackets, but I try to
avoid it because it has broken behavior (leaks the index variable) in
Python 2.x.


From http  Mon Aug 31 11:48:14 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 31 Aug 2009 08:48:14 -0700
Subject: lambda functions
References: <5369eaa8-bcda-44e0-90c3-8972f2b1eb91@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xvdk4kmrl.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

Pierre  writes:
> s_minus_1 = lambda s : for index in range(0, len(s)) : s[index] = s
> [index]-1

What are you trying to do here anyway?  That looks broken. 
Maybe you want the list.insert method.


From koranthala at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 12:03:13 2009
From: koranthala at gmail.com (koranthala)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 09:03:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: executable path finding
Message-ID: <9d71d0bd-5109-45b6-bce7-114607386063@y10g2000prf.googlegroups.com>

Hi,
    I am creating a python application using py2exe. I am facing a
problem which I am not sure how to solve.
    The application contains many other files associated with it -
like icons, config files etc. The executable can be in any directory.
If the user creates a shortcut to the executable to run in desktop,
the program fails - saying that the icon image cannot be found. But I
can run the application properly, if I run it from application
directory - where all the other icons, config files etc are kept.
    How is such issues usually solved? I do not want to hardcode the
paths of icons and store the icons in those paths. I guess, we can
change the directory to the application directory before running the
application. (in __init__.py ???) But how do we find the current
directory in that case? I am completely at sea in solving this.
    This looks to be a very common issue. How is this usually solved?


From deets at nospam.web.de  Mon Aug 31 12:07:20 2009
From: deets at nospam.web.de (Diez B. Roggisch)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 18:07:20 +0200
Subject: executable path finding
References: <9d71d0bd-5109-45b6-bce7-114607386063@y10g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7g2apoF2nipofU2@mid.uni-berlin.de>

koranthala wrote:

> Hi,
>     I am creating a python application using py2exe. I am facing a
> problem which I am not sure how to solve.
>     The application contains many other files associated with it -
> like icons, config files etc. The executable can be in any directory.
> If the user creates a shortcut to the executable to run in desktop,
> the program fails - saying that the icon image cannot be found. But I
> can run the application properly, if I run it from application
> directory - where all the other icons, config files etc are kept.
>     How is such issues usually solved? I do not want to hardcode the
> paths of icons and store the icons in those paths. I guess, we can
> change the directory to the application directory before running the
> application. (in __init__.py ???) But how do we find the current
> directory in that case? I am completely at sea in solving this.
>     This looks to be a very common issue. How is this usually solved?

You can get the location of a module via

 module.__file__

This can be used to find a file relative to e.g. the toplevel module/package
of your application.

The pkg_resources-module of setuptools encapsulates that even into a stream
and file-name api.

Diez


From daniel.watrous at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 12:11:46 2009
From: daniel.watrous at gmail.com (Daniel)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 09:11:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: find free hard disk space remote windows host
Message-ID: <6070a0b2-23db-4824-851b-4920a31bd38e@q14g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

I'm trying to determine the amount of free hard disk space on a remote
windows host.  Seems like this should be simple, but it's giving me
grief.  Here's what I've tried:

>>> mystat = os.stat('//remotehost/share/')
>>> mystat
(16895, 0L, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0L, 1251731920, 1251731289, 1249399952)

For some reason it doesn't show the details about space on the remote
path.

Next I tried this:

subprocess.call('dir //remotehost/share/ | find "bytes free"',
shell=True)

But this only returns the status, not the output, which is what I
need.

How can I determine the amount of free hard drive space on a remote
windows host using python?

Thanks


From vicente.soler at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 12:19:28 2009
From: vicente.soler at gmail.com (vsoler)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 09:19:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Efficient way to sum a product of numbers...
Message-ID: <73c1558e-8103-431a-9830-dead8024200b@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

Hi,

After simplifying my problem, I can say that I want to get the sum of
the product of two culumns:

Say
         m= [[ 'a', 1], [ 'b', 2],[ 'a', 3]]
         r={'a':4, 'b':5, 'c':6}

What I need is the calculation

         1*4 + 2*5 + 3*4 = 4 + 10 + 12 = 26

That is, for each row list in variable 'm' look for its first element
in variable 'r' and multiply the value found by the second element in
row 'm'. After that, sum all the products.

What's an efficient way to do it? I have thousands of these
calculations to make on a big data file.

Thank you.


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Mon Aug 31 12:30:27 2009
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 11:30:27 -0500
Subject: Efficient way to sum a product of numbers...
In-Reply-To: <73c1558e-8103-431a-9830-dead8024200b@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: <73c1558e-8103-431a-9830-dead8024200b@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A9BFAA3.3000308@tim.thechases.com>

> After simplifying my problem, I can say that I want to get the sum of
> the product of two culumns:
> 
> Say
>          m= [[ 'a', 1], [ 'b', 2],[ 'a', 3]]
assuming you meant ['c', 3] here...    ^
>          r={'a':4, 'b':5, 'c':6}
> 
> What I need is the calculation
> 
>          1*4 + 2*5 + 3*4 = 4 + 10 + 12 = 26
and you mean "3*6" here instead of "3*4", which is 18 instead of 
12, making the whole sum 4+10+18=32


Then it sounds like you could do something like

  result = sum(v * r[k] for k,v in m)

where "m" is any arbitrary iterable of tuples.  If the keys (the 
letters) aren't guaranteed to be in "r", then you can use 
defaults (in this case "0", but could just as likely be "1" 
depending on your intent):

  result = sum(v * r.get(k,0) for k,v in m)


If the conditions above don't hold, you'll have to introduce me 
to your new math. ;-)

-tkc





From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 12:31:25 2009
From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 09:31:25 -0700
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
In-Reply-To: 
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	<6Djmm.14757$ze1.10295@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
	
	
Message-ID: 

No need to feed the troll by actually trying to engage in the discussion,  
but just FYI:

>    Sanskrit is mostly written in Devanagari these days which is also
> useful for selling things to people who speak Hindi and other Indian
> languages.

Devanagari is what's used for Hindi and a handful of other languages, yes,  
but most Indian languages (Gujarati, Punjabi, Bengali, and Tamil just to  
name a few) use different scripts.

On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 20:07:17 -0700, Neil Hodgson  
 wrote:

> Benjamin Peterson:
>
>> Like Sanskrit or Snowman language?
>
>    Sanskrit is mostly written in Devanagari these days which is also
> useful for selling things to people who speak Hindi and other Indian
> languages.
>
>    Not sure if you are referring to the ? snowman character or Arctic
> region languages like Canadian Aboriginal syllabic writing like ?????
> which were added to Unicode 8 years after the initial version. I'd guess
> that was added from political rather than marketing motives. ? was
> required since it was present in Japanese character sets.
>
>    Neil



-- 
Rami Chowdhury
"Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" --  
Hanlon's Razor
408-597-7068 (US) / 07875-841-046 (UK) / 0189-245544 (BD)


From koranthala at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 12:37:24 2009
From: koranthala at gmail.com (koranthala)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 09:37:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: executable path finding
References: <9d71d0bd-5109-45b6-bce7-114607386063@y10g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
	<7g2apoF2nipofU2@mid.uni-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <40dd30b5-c65c-4fb2-9a3a-c9264f333018@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 31, 9:07?pm, "Diez B. Roggisch"  wrote:
> koranthala wrote:
> > Hi,
> > ? ? I am creating a python application using py2exe. I am facing a
> > problem which I am not sure how to solve.
> > ? ? The application contains many other files associated with it -
> > like icons, config files etc. The executable can be in any directory.
> > If the user creates a shortcut to the executable to run in desktop,
> > the program fails - saying that the icon image cannot be found. But I
> > can run the application properly, if I run it from application
> > directory - where all the other icons, config files etc are kept.
> > ? ? How is such issues usually solved? I do not want to hardcode the
> > paths of icons and store the icons in those paths. I guess, we can
> > change the directory to the application directory before running the
> > application. (in __init__.py ???) But how do we find the current
> > directory in that case? I am completely at sea in solving this.
> > ? ? This looks to be a very common issue. How is this usually solved?
>
> You can get the location of a module via
>
> ?module.__file__
>
> This can be used to find a file relative to e.g. the toplevel module/package
> of your application.
>
> The pkg_resources-module of setuptools encapsulates that even into a stream
> and file-name api.
>
> Diez

Thank you Diez. It was what I was looking for.


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 12:43:30 2009
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 11:43:30 -0500
Subject: rcond in numpy :
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 2009-08-31 04:02 AM, Pierre wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> Anyone knows the numpy equivalent of the matlab function : rcond
> (Matrix reciprocal condition number estimate) ?

You will want to ask numpy questions on the numpy mailing list:

   http://www.scipy.org/Mailing_Lists

numpy.linalg.cond() will give you the condition number of the matrix. Invert it 
to get the reciprocal.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From vicente.soler at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 12:43:45 2009
From: vicente.soler at gmail.com (vsoler)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 09:43:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Efficient way to sum a product of numbers...
References: <73c1558e-8103-431a-9830-dead8024200b@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <26d7f803-ec2d-4195-a48b-d34c0cbedc84@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 31, 6:30?pm, Tim Chase  wrote:
> > After simplifying my problem, I can say that I want to get the sum of
> > the product of two culumns:
>
> > Say
> > ? ? ? ? ?m= [[ 'a', 1], [ 'b', 2],[ 'a', 3]]
>
> assuming you meant ['c', 3] here... ? ?^> ? ? ? ? ?r={'a':4, 'b':5, 'c':6}
>
> > What I need is the calculation
>
> > ? ? ? ? ?1*4 + 2*5 + 3*4 = 4 + 10 + 12 = 26
>
> and you mean "3*6" here instead of "3*4", which is 18 instead of
> 12, making the whole sum 4+10+18=32
>
> Then it sounds like you could do something like
>
> ? result = sum(v * r[k] for k,v in m)
>
> where "m" is any arbitrary iterable of tuples. ?If the keys (the
> letters) aren't guaranteed to be in "r", then you can use
> defaults (in this case "0", but could just as likely be "1"
> depending on your intent):
>
> ? result = sum(v * r.get(k,0) for k,v in m)
>
> If the conditions above don't hold, you'll have to introduce me
> to your new math. ;-)
>
> -tkc

Hello Tim,

There is no mistake in my original post, so I really meant [ 'a', 3]

Imagine that m contains time sheets of suppliers

   supplier 'a' has worked for you 1 hour
   supplier 'b' has worked for you 2 hour
   supplier 'a' has worked for you 3 hour

Now

   supplier 'a' charges $4 per hour
   supplier 'b' charges $5 per hour
   supplier 'c' charges $6 per hour

I want to know how much I will be charged this month by my pannel of
suppliers.

   1*4 + 2*5 + 3*4 = 4 + 10 + 12 = 26

This is what I am after.
I expect all my suppliers to have handed me in advance the per hour
fee. If at least one hasn't, I must know that the result is undefined.

Hope this helps


Vicente Soler


From python.list at tim.thechases.com  Mon Aug 31 12:59:01 2009
From: python.list at tim.thechases.com (Tim Chase)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 11:59:01 -0500
Subject: Efficient way to sum a product of numbers...
In-Reply-To: <26d7f803-ec2d-4195-a48b-d34c0cbedc84@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
References: <73c1558e-8103-431a-9830-dead8024200b@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>	
	<26d7f803-ec2d-4195-a48b-d34c0cbedc84@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A9C0155.2090505@tim.thechases.com>

vsoler wrote:
> On Aug 31, 6:30 pm, Tim Chase  wrote:
>>> After simplifying my problem, I can say that I want to get the sum of
>>> the product of two culumns:
>>> Say
>>>          m= [[ 'a', 1], [ 'b', 2],[ 'a', 3]]
>> assuming you meant ['c', 3] here...    ^>          r={'a':4, 'b':5, 'c':6}
>>
>>> What I need is the calculation
>>>          1*4 + 2*5 + 3*4 = 4 + 10 + 12 = 26
>> and you mean "3*6" here instead of "3*4", which is 18 instead of
>> 12, making the whole sum 4+10+18=32
>>
>> Then it sounds like you could do something like
>>
>>   result = sum(v * r[k] for k,v in m)
>>
>> where "m" is any arbitrary iterable of tuples.  If the keys (the
>> letters) aren't guaranteed to be in "r", then you can use
>> defaults (in this case "0", but could just as likely be "1"
>> depending on your intent):
>>
>>   result = sum(v * r.get(k,0) for k,v in m)
>>
>> If the conditions above don't hold, you'll have to introduce me
>> to your new math. ;-)

> There is no mistake in my original post, so I really meant [ 'a', 3]

Ah...that makes more sense of the data.  My answer still holds 
then.  Use the r[k] version instead of the r.get(...) version, 
and it will throw an exception if the rate doesn't exist in your 
mapping.  (a KeyError if you want to catch it)

-tkc




From rt8396 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 13:00:01 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:00:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: An assessment of Tkinter and IDLE
References: <55a0833d-3f1f-402a-8eb7-cb4b7861cce5@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	
	<1010dd16-fa92-46b6-8391-b8a701704472@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
	
	<827effaa-d0f7-4142-b4b9-6f9f8e0e7963@e34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>
	<4A9BD58D.3060808@codebykevin.com>
	
Message-ID: 

Kevin and Terry,


Kevin.
I respectfully disagree that the site is ready for prime time
*However* i do not wish to undermine the great work that Mark Roseman
has done here and i thank him for his contribution. He has put much
work into covering all the major languages and i think this site
*could* turn out to be the best one-stop-shop for Tk coding no matter
what language you come use. And Actually of all the sites that i know
of, his is by far the most professional/modern looking of all!

My only beef with Mark's site is lack of detailed information OR a
reference manual of sorts in the Python language. We have too many
places around the net one must go to get this information when
starting the road to Tkinter.

The Effbot site is great with much detail but is not a good reference.
John's NMT site is a great reference but lacks the extensive tutorial
style details of effbot. Mark's site is the shiny new corvette,
however the engine is on back order?

We need to compile this info into one beautiful orgy of Tkinter
learning material. Here are the three sites that i mentioned above,
they would compress well into one...

http://effbot.org/tkinterbook/
http://infohost.nmt.edu/tcc/help/pubs/tkinter/
http://www.tkdocs.com/


[TERRY SAID..]
While I hadn't used it before, I think Tkinter may very well be the
nicest interface to Tk next to Tcl's (for which Tk was originally
designed of course, so you'd expect a bit of an advantage). For people
unfamiliar with either language, I think Python's more conventional
use of parentheses for functions, the "option=value" syntax, plus
other
language features it takes advantage of are very attractive and win
out over Tcl.
[/TERRY]

Well put Terry! I could not agree more with this assessment! Pythons
wrapping of Tk is so beautiful next to the other languages i can bet a
lot of Ruby, Tcl, and Perl guys are going to feel like ugly ducklings
at a Ms america pageant! (but i may be partial to Python code... just
a little)  ;-)

When it comes to using Tkinter I think a lot of people let ego get in
the way. Yes the name may sound synonymous with "Tinker Toys" however,
TEE-KAY-ENTER is a great (albeit simple) GUI toolkit. I use it quite
often and reach for the power of wx only when i need the extra
functionality -- which the gap is starting to close. Anyhow, welcome
to Tkinter Terry, i only wished you would had dropped by
sooner...??? :)

psst: maybe you can use your influence and convince others that Tk is
not so bad?


From vicente.soler at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 13:13:34 2009
From: vicente.soler at gmail.com (vsoler)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:13:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Efficient way to sum a product of numbers...
References: <73c1558e-8103-431a-9830-dead8024200b@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	
	<26d7f803-ec2d-4195-a48b-d34c0cbedc84@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 31, 6:59?pm, Tim Chase  wrote:
> vsoler wrote:
> > On Aug 31, 6:30 pm, Tim Chase  wrote:
> >>> After simplifying my problem, I can say that I want to get the sum of
> >>> the product of two culumns:
> >>> Say
> >>> ? ? ? ? ?m= [[ 'a', 1], [ 'b', 2],[ 'a', 3]]
> >> assuming you meant ['c', 3] here... ? ?^> ? ? ? ? ?r={'a':4, 'b':5, 'c':6}
>
> >>> What I need is the calculation
> >>> ? ? ? ? ?1*4 + 2*5 + 3*4 = 4 + 10 + 12 = 26
> >> and you mean "3*6" here instead of "3*4", which is 18 instead of
> >> 12, making the whole sum 4+10+18=32
>
> >> Then it sounds like you could do something like
>
> >> ? result = sum(v * r[k] for k,v in m)
>
> >> where "m" is any arbitrary iterable of tuples. ?If the keys (the
> >> letters) aren't guaranteed to be in "r", then you can use
> >> defaults (in this case "0", but could just as likely be "1"
> >> depending on your intent):
>
> >> ? result = sum(v * r.get(k,0) for k,v in m)
>
> >> If the conditions above don't hold, you'll have to introduce me
> >> to your new math. ;-)
> > There is no mistake in my original post, so I really meant [ 'a', 3]
>
> Ah...that makes more sense of the data. ?My answer still holds
> then. ?Use the r[k] version instead of the r.get(...) version,
> and it will throw an exception if the rate doesn't exist in your
> mapping. ?(a KeyError if you want to catch it)
>
> -tkc

It works!!!

Thank you


From szport at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 13:21:22 2009
From: szport at gmail.com (zaur)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:21:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 29 ???, 16:45, zaur  wrote:
> Python 2.6.2 (r262:71600, Apr 16 2009, 09:17:39)
> [GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 5250)] on darwin
> Type "copyright", "credits" or "license()" for more information.>>> a=1
> >>> x=[a]
> >>> id(a)==id(x[0])
> True
> >>> a+=1
> >>> a
> 2
> >>> x[0]
>
> 1
>
> I thought that += should only change the value of the int object. But
> += create new.
> Is this intentional?

As a result of this debate is not whether we should conclude that
there should be two types of integers in python: 1) immutable numbers,
which behave as constant value; 2) mutable numbers, which behave as
variable value?


From ajoys123 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 13:23:48 2009
From: ajoys123 at gmail.com (devaru)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:23:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Logging contents of IRC channel
Message-ID: 

I am new to Python. I want to log the activities in an IRC channel.
Any pointers regarding this would be of great help.


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 13:29:22 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:29:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: An assessment of Tkinter and IDLE
References: <55a0833d-3f1f-402a-8eb7-cb4b7861cce5@q5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <799b8346-dc43-48be-aee0-bc5b1b235e1e@e34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 28, 11:12?am, Mark Roseman  wrote:
> Would it be useful to link to this from the main Python Tkinter
> documentation?
>
> Mark

Sorry Mark,
i did not realize when i replied to you that YOU are the Mark of
tkdoc.com. For some reason i only saw Tcl code when i visted the site,
and that prompted my slightly grumpy rant. After looking a second time
(and actually reading more) i see this site has much promise. I hope
my post did not seem condescending of your efforts. I think your site
is beautiful and just wish we could add MORE Python specific info to
it like i covered in my last post. And also I would like to see a
complete coverage of all the widgets.

We more experienced guys already know how and where to find the
thousand or so sites for this or that Python info, but the new users
are going to be lost in the wilderness. I love that Python has so much
info out there, i just hate that is so spread out! We must do
something about this in a way that all doc/tut creators can be happy.

PS: and i would like to contribute to your site.


From pavlovevidence at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 13:59:41 2009
From: pavlovevidence at gmail.com (Carl Banks)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:59:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On Aug 31, 10:21?am, zaur  wrote:
> On 29 ???, 16:45, zaur  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Python 2.6.2 (r262:71600, Apr 16 2009, 09:17:39)
> > [GCC 4.0.1 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 5250)] on darwin
> > Type "copyright", "credits" or "license()" for more information.>>> a=1
> > >>> x=[a]
> > >>> id(a)==id(x[0])
> > True
> > >>> a+=1
> > >>> a
> > 2
> > >>> x[0]
>
> > 1
>
> > I thought that += should only change the value of the int object. But
> > += create new.
> > Is this intentional?
>
> As a result of this debate is not whether we should conclude that
> there should be two types of integers in python: 1) immutable numbers,
> which behave as constant value; 2) mutable numbers, which behave as
> variable value?

You are free to use third-party modules (such as numpy) which provide
mutable numbers.

I see no reason to include any mutable number type standard library,
as not many people will require the performance benefits and/or
indirection of mutable numbers, and those who do are free to use third-
party modules that provide them.


Carl Banks


From sccolbert at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 14:15:20 2009
From: sccolbert at gmail.com (Chris Colbert)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 14:15:20 -0400
Subject: IDE for Python
In-Reply-To: <0f5f01d3-220e-4ef8-b55b-0f88f58a0afd@b18g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
References: 
	
	<0f5f01d3-220e-4ef8-b55b-0f88f58a0afd@b18g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7f014ea60908311115s33f32d63v39706acba8fad9b3@mail.gmail.com>

I'm a big fan of wing. Pay for the non-free version and you get all
the goodies, plus PHENOMENAL support. Really. They answer support
emails within a few minutes.

Its has the best code completion i've seen in any python editor/ide
and is also the most stable, fastest (for ide's), and customizable.

I am not affiliated with Wingware or their parent company in any way.


On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 11:32 AM, Che M wrote:
> On Aug 31, 10:53?am, Mike Driscoll  wrote:
>> On Aug 29, 1:08?pm, ivanko.... at gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> > 29.08.2009 4:14 ???????????? "Thangappan.M"  ?
>> > ???????:
>>
>> > > Dear all,
>> > > Please suggest some good IDE for python.I am working in linux platform.
>> > > --
>> > > Regards,
>> > > Thangappan.M
>>
>> > You can use Eclipse + PyDev or Emacs+PythonMode . Also there are Anjuta and ?
>> > Code:Blocks, but they are designed mainly for C++ (but still can be used).
>>
>> Don't forget Wingware IDE. Admittedly, it's not free (except for a
>> limited version), but it's pretty good. There's also SPE (Stani's
>> Python Editor). If you want a nigh-complete list, check the Python
>> wiki:
>>
>> http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonEditors
>
> Not sure when an editor gets to be called an IDE, but while on the
> site
> that OP should check out this related page:
>
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/IntegratedDevelopmentEnvironments
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


From http  Mon Aug 31 14:27:03 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 31 Aug 2009 11:27:03 -0700
Subject: Efficient way to sum a product of numbers...
References: <73c1558e-8103-431a-9830-dead8024200b@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <7xab1f2614.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

vsoler  writes:
>          m= [[ 'a', 1], [ 'b', 2],[ 'a', 3]]
>          r={'a':4, 'b':5, 'c':6}
> 
> What I need is the calculation
> 
>          1*4 + 2*5 + 3*4 = 4 + 10 + 12 = 26

sum(r[k]*w for k,w in m)


From http  Mon Aug 31 14:30:13 2009
From: http (Paul Rubin)
Date: 31 Aug 2009 11:30:13 -0700
Subject: Logging contents of IRC channel
References: 
Message-ID: <7x63c325vu.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>

devaru  writes:
> I am new to Python. I want to log the activities in an IRC channel.
> Any pointers regarding this would be of great help.

http://science.slashdot.org/science/04/04/13/1356216.shtml


From mail at timgolden.me.uk  Mon Aug 31 14:39:56 2009
From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 19:39:56 +0100
Subject: find free hard disk space remote windows host
In-Reply-To: <6070a0b2-23db-4824-851b-4920a31bd38e@q14g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
References: <6070a0b2-23db-4824-851b-4920a31bd38e@q14g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <4A9C18FC.2050702@timgolden.me.uk>

Daniel wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I'm trying to determine the amount of free hard disk space on a remote
> windows host.  Seems like this should be simple, but it's giving me
> grief.  Here's what I've tried:
> 
>>>> mystat = os.stat('//remotehost/share/')
>>>> mystat
> (16895, 0L, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0L, 1251731920, 1251731289, 1249399952)

Assuming you have the necessary security levels,
WMI's quite good at this kind of thing. See this
example:

  http://timgolden.me.uk/python/wmi_cookbook.html#percentage_free

and just add "remotehost" as the first parameter to the
wmi.WMI () call. (And I recommend find_classes=False) for
speed.

TJG


From jgardner at jonathangardner.net  Mon Aug 31 14:56:29 2009
From: jgardner at jonathangardner.net (Jonathan Gardner)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 11:56:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Logging contents of IRC channel
References: 
Message-ID: <395c130e-3269-453f-b8e5-379aea2de7d8@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 31, 10:23?am, devaru  wrote:
> I am new to Python. I want to log the activities in an IRC channel.
> Any pointers regarding this would be of great help.

How are you going to plug into the chat server to obtain the data?

How will you store the data?

The in between parts are really easy.


From 71david at libero.it  Mon Aug 31 15:04:27 2009
From: 71david at libero.it (David)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 21:04:27 +0200
Subject: Why does this group have so much spam?
References: <7294bf8b-9819-4b6d-92b2-afc1c8042a06@x6g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<7l1wem586nhf.c8spq9wpqg99.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
	
Message-ID: <171zfm8mhuokq.1e4ltdmqqfp01.dlg@40tude.net>

Il Sun, 30 Aug 2009 16:08:46 -0700 (PDT), r ha scritto:


> Yes i agree but your logic is flawed. If someone cuts my brake lines
> and i cannot stop who is to blame? Or if someone throws nails on the
> highway and i crash, who is to blame? Obviously you cannot blame the
> car owner. However if i let my brake pads wear out until they are
> metal on metal and run over some poor old lady crossing the street --
> well now you got me! ;)
> 
> But you cannot apply this logic when a hacker compromises someones
> computer, it the same as cutting their brake lines. How can you
> honestly expect that Joe computer user will know of this infection? 

I expect that user makes periodical and hopefully frequent checks to his
computer. Today most of the people simply does absolutely nothing.
Obvioulsy there is a vulnerability time between two check, but Perfection
does not belongs to human beings so we must accept the risk of being cracked
and being aware that we will charged for our computer actions, even if we
are not directly responsible.
It's a question of point of view: in italy if a thief steals a car and
causes an accident the car's owner's assurance (having a car assurance is
mandatory) must refund the victims. That's because protections of victims is
first priority.
Obviously the owner can not be charged 


>Do
> you even know where your brake lines are? Even hackers can be hacked
> without ever knowing it! The only sure fire way is VM's or system re-
> installs.

That's a problem of the computer owner. Why should the rest of the world be
charged of *his* problem while keeping him safe from suffering any
consequence?

>[...]
>> I think it's time to switch to responsible computing and the mail-tax would
>> charge each person of its own costs and annoyances without affectig the rest
>> of the world.
> 
> What, this is madness! If you have terrorist terrorizing your country
> you don't tax the public when they blow up a shopping mall so you can
> rebuild it! No you kill the terrorist in a harsh and painful manner
> and make an example of them, then you seize there monies. You should
> direct your anger to the proper internet security authorities(and more
> importantly to the perpetrator's) and not the innocent victims of such
> attacks. I want you to sit back and think very deeply about your
> proposal here because it is horribly wrong.

Madness, you say? Let's examine the situation a bit moore deeply.

First, the mail-tax would is not for rebuilding the destroyed building after
the attack but, at the opposite, to prevent the attack. Wouldn't you pay a
small tax to prevent terrorist's attacks?
The mail-tax would be really small, if you send 1000 mails at month (a real
huge traffic, for a non spammer!) the bill would be about 10 cents. 
Do you really think this is too much to get rid of most of the spam?

Second, today we *are* paying that tax to repair building destroyed by
terrorists. 
We are paying and hidden tax in terms of HW and human resources needed by
ISPs to manage that huge (~90%) useless/malicius traffic. (I don't mention
const related to dalays, denial of services, theft of informations...)
Those costs are obviously charged by ISPs on our montly subscription bill. 
By the mail-tax we achive 3 results: 
1. stopping forever direct spammers.
2. make each owner aware that his computer is compromised when the montly
bill is higher than usual.
3. make that owner aware that *he* must pay for *his* problem and the rest
of the world (included, I hope, you) is no more willing to be charged for
this.

The mail-tax may not be Final Solution against spam, but helps a lot.

> 
> It is so easy to just slap a tax on something, yes that will solve
> everything. *sarcasm*

You should reconsider your position because you are actually blaming the
present situation, not my proposal.
Finally a little criticims: spam and related malware is a problem growing
day by day. I am proposing a solution and if somebody doest't like it, well,
he should propose a better one. Just saying "NO!" and turning head aside
hoping that the problem will solve by itsef is no more acceptable.

> 
>>> If you want to avoid usenet spam and don't want to filter it yourself,
>>> find a provider with more aggressive spam filter.
>>
>> This is not the solution. You are saying that if your neighbour makes loud
>> noises you can not call police to impose him to cease but you can only make
>> your home soundproof.
> 
> or you could go over and punch him in the nose, works every time for
> me ;-)

In italy we say: "preventing is better than treating" (a disease).

Regards
David


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Mon Aug 31 15:22:20 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 21:22:20 +0200
Subject: map
In-Reply-To: <7xzl9gkmu5.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
References: <777de4d8-e591-4d21-bbd0-b286105895bc@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
	<7xzl9gkmu5.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
Message-ID: 

Another possibilities, if you really *desire* to use map()
and not list-comprehension (I'd prefer the latter), are:

# Python 2.x:
map(func, mylist, itertools.repeat('booHoo', len(mylist)))

# Python 3.x, where map() works like Py2.x's itertools.imap():
list(map(func, mylist, itertools.repeat('booHoo')))

Cheers,
*j

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From mcravitz at att.net  Mon Aug 31 15:43:04 2009
From: mcravitz at att.net (MikeC)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 12:43:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: win32ui DLL Load Failed
Message-ID: 

I have a python executable that's failing to load on a user's machine
running Windows XP. My developer machine is also running Windows XP. I
have determined that it is failing when it attempts to load win32ui.

I have Python 2.6 on my developer machine and am using the pywin
support (Mark Hammonds???) for Python 2.6.

In order to make the problem smaller and more managable I created an
executable (with pytoexe) of a 1 one-line python script which does the
following:

import win32ui

Running the one-line script on my machine from python source as well
as from the executable created from the one-line source works fine on
my machine. But when I attempt to run the executable on a target
Windows/XP user machine (without Python) it fails with the following
traceback

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "CheckScan.py", line 7, in 
  File "PrintImage.pyc", line 1, in 
  File "win32ui.pyc", line 12, in 
  File "win32ui.pyc", line 10, in __load
ImportError: DLL load failed: This application has failed to start
because the application configuration is incorrect. Reinstalling the
application may fix this problem.

The only thing I can think of regarding the difference between my
machine and the target machine is that I have the .NET framework on my
machine. Is it possible that that is the problem? Running Depends
didn't get me anywhere. I would appreciate any help you can offer.


From gordon at panix.com  Mon Aug 31 15:44:03 2009
From: gordon at panix.com (John Gordon)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 19:44:03 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Unexpected 411 error response using httplib
Message-ID: 

I'm writing some code that queries a Microsoft Exchange Web Services server.
The server is responding with a 411 Length Required error, which is strange
because I am definitely sending a Content-Length header.

Here's the code:

-----------------------------------------------------
import httplib
import base64

SoapMessage = """\


  
    
      
        Default
        
          
          
          
        
      
      
        
      
    
  
\
"""

host = "some.host.com"

username = "myUsername"
password = "myPassword"
auth = base64.encodestring(username + ":" + password)

conn = httplib.HTTPSConnection(host)
conn.set_debuglevel(5)
conn.putrequest("POST", "/EWS/Exchange.asmx")
conn.putheader("Content-type", "text/xml; charset=\"UTF-8\"")
conn.putheader("Proxy-Authorization", "Basic %s" % auth)
conn.putheader("Content-Length", "%d" % len(SoapMessage))
conn.putheader("User-Agent", "Python post")
conn.endheaders()
conn.send(SoapMessage)

resp = conn.getresponse()

body    = resp.read()
headers = resp.msg
version = resp.version
status  = resp.status
reason  = resp.reason

conn.close()

print "Response: ", status, reason
print "Headers: ", headers
print body
-----------------------------------------------------

As you can see, I am including the call to putheader() for Content-Length,
and the debugging output confirms that the header is present in the outgoing
message.

So why am I getting a 411 Length Required error?

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon at panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"



From no.email at please.post  Mon Aug 31 15:46:37 2009
From: no.email at please.post (kj)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 19:46:37 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: pyjamas in action?
Message-ID: 




At work we want to implement a webapp using Google's GWT, and we're
debating whether to use the standard GWT approach with Java, or to
try Pyjamas.  There's no great love here for Java, but there's the
concern that Pyjamas will not be able to deliver the full power
and/or convenience of standard Java-based GWT.  (Why-oh-why did
Google pick Java for this?  Couldn't Guido twist some arms?  Just
kidding.)

Are there any examples of real production websites implemented with
Pyjamas?

TIA!

kynn


From emile at fenx.com  Mon Aug 31 15:48:08 2009
From: emile at fenx.com (Emile van Sebille)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 12:48:08 -0700
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
In-Reply-To: 
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>	<3e9ddb9b-8f61-4d8d-a25c-7e95e8a25c06@g1g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>		<200908311019.58029.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>	<4A9BDFFE.2040402@wiggly.org>
	
Message-ID: 

On 8/31/2009 10:41 AM Dennis Lee Bieber said...
> On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 15:36:46 +0100, Nigel Rantor 

>> Also, I'm surprised no-one has mentioned Esperanto yet. Sounds like 
>> something r and Xah would *love*.
>>
> 	Hmmm, thought I had mentioned Esperanto (and Klingon)

Just curious -- has anyone mentioned autocoding?  :)

Emile



From kyosohma at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 15:48:37 2009
From: kyosohma at gmail.com (Mike Driscoll)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 12:48:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: win32ui DLL Load Failed
References: 
Message-ID: <591c8c0d-8134-4bd6-923f-7b05066c92ad@m20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 31, 2:43?pm, MikeC  wrote:
> I have a python executable that's failing to load on a user's machine
> running Windows XP. My developer machine is also running Windows XP. I
> have determined that it is failing when it attempts to load win32ui.
>
> I have Python 2.6 on my developer machine and am using the pywin
> support (Mark Hammonds???) for Python 2.6.
>
> In order to make the problem smaller and more managable I created an
> executable (with pytoexe) of a 1 one-line python script which does the
> following:
>
> import win32ui
>
> Running the one-line script on my machine from python source as well
> as from the executable created from the one-line source works fine on
> my machine. But when I attempt to run the executable on a target
> Windows/XP user machine (without Python) it fails with the following
> traceback
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? File "CheckScan.py", line 7, in 
> ? File "PrintImage.pyc", line 1, in 
> ? File "win32ui.pyc", line 12, in 
> ? File "win32ui.pyc", line 10, in __load
> ImportError: DLL load failed: This application has failed to start
> because the application configuration is incorrect. Reinstalling the
> application may fix this problem.
>
> The only thing I can think of regarding the difference between my
> machine and the target machine is that I have the .NET framework on my
> machine. Is it possible that that is the problem? Running Depends
> didn't get me anywhere. I would appreciate any help you can offer.

Did you install PyWin32? If so, which version? Here's a link:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/pywin32/

- Mike


From ckaynor at zindagigames.com  Mon Aug 31 15:51:59 2009
From: ckaynor at zindagigames.com (Chris Kaynor)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 12:51:59 -0700
Subject: win32ui DLL Load Failed
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

You likely need to install the Microsoft Visual C++ 2008 SP1 Redistributable
Package on the target machine. If you search Google for this, you should
find it (make sure to grab the correct version of x86 or x64 depending upon
the Python version).


Chris


On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 12:43 PM, MikeC  wrote:

> I have a python executable that's failing to load on a user's machine
> running Windows XP. My developer machine is also running Windows XP. I
> have determined that it is failing when it attempts to load win32ui.
>
> I have Python 2.6 on my developer machine and am using the pywin
> support (Mark Hammonds???) for Python 2.6.
>
> In order to make the problem smaller and more managable I created an
> executable (with pytoexe) of a 1 one-line python script which does the
> following:
>
> import win32ui
>
> Running the one-line script on my machine from python source as well
> as from the executable created from the one-line source works fine on
> my machine. But when I attempt to run the executable on a target
> Windows/XP user machine (without Python) it fails with the following
> traceback
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "CheckScan.py", line 7, in 
>  File "PrintImage.pyc", line 1, in 
>  File "win32ui.pyc", line 12, in 
>  File "win32ui.pyc", line 10, in __load
> ImportError: DLL load failed: This application has failed to start
> because the application configuration is incorrect. Reinstalling the
> application may fix this problem.
>
> The only thing I can think of regarding the difference between my
> machine and the target machine is that I have the .NET framework on my
> machine. Is it possible that that is the problem? Running Depends
> didn't get me anywhere. I would appreciate any help you can offer.
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
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From nobody at nowhere.com  Mon Aug 31 16:20:55 2009
From: nobody at nowhere.com (Nobody)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 21:20:55 +0100
Subject: map
References: <777de4d8-e591-4d21-bbd0-b286105895bc@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 21:55:52 -0700, elsa wrote:

> say I have a list, myList. Now say I have a function with more than
> one argument:
> 
> myFunc(a, b='None')
> 
> now, say I want to map myFunc onto myList, with always the same
> argument for b, but iterating over a:
> 
> map(myFunc(b='booHoo'), myList)
> 
> Why doesn't this work?

You're passing the result of (incorrectly) calling myFunc to map(), but
you need to pass a function.

> is there a way to make it work?

If you need to construct a simple function on-the-fly, you can use a
lambda form:

	map(lambda x: myFunc(x, b='booHoo'), myList)

Or you could use a list comprehension:

	[myFunc(x, b='booHoo') for x in myList]



From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Mon Aug 31 16:28:56 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 22:28:56 +0200
Subject: Efficient way to sum a product of numbers...
In-Reply-To: <4A9BFAA3.3000308@tim.thechases.com>
References: <73c1558e-8103-431a-9830-dead8024200b@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<4A9BFAA3.3000308@tim.thechases.com>
Message-ID: 

31-08-2009 o 18:19:28 vsoler  wrote:

> Say
>          m= [[ 'a', 1], [ 'b', 2],[ 'a', 3]]
>          r={'a':4, 'b':5, 'c':6}
>
> What I need is the calculation
>
>          1*4 + 2*5 + 3*4 = 4 + 10 + 12 = 26
>
> That is, for each row list in variable 'm' look for its first element
> in variable 'r' and multiply the value found by the second element in
> row 'm'. After that, sum all the products.
>
> What's an efficient way to do it? I have thousands of these
> calculations to make on a big data file.


31-08-2009 o 18:30:27 Tim Chase  wrote:

>   result = sum(v * r[k] for k,v in m)


You can also check if this isn't more efficient:

   from itertools import starmap
   from operator import mul

   result = sum(starmap(mul, ((r[name], hour) for name, hour in m)))


Or, if you had m in form of two lists:

   names = ['a', 'b', 'a']
   hours = [1, 2, 3]

...then you could do:

   from itertools import imap as map  # <- remove if you use Py3.x
   from operator import mul

   result = sum(map(mul, map(r.__getitem__, names), hours))


Cheers,
*j

PS. I've done a quick test on my computer (Pentium 4, 2.4Ghz, Linux):

>>> setup = "from itertools import starmap, imap ; from operator import  
>>> mul; import random, string; names =  
>>> [rndom.choice(string.ascii_letters) for x in xrange(10000)]; hours =  
>>> [random.randint(1, 12) for x in xrange(1000)]; m = zip(names, hours);  
>>> workers = set(names); r = dict(zip(workers, (random.randint(1, 10) for  
>>> x in xrange(en(workers)))))"
>>> tests = (
...     'sum(v * r[k] for k,v in m)',
...     'sum(starmap(mul, ((r[name], hour) for name, hour in m)))',
...     'sum(imap(mul, imap(r.__getitem__, names), hours))',
... )
>>> for t in tests:
...     print t
...     timeit.repeat(t, setup, number=1000)
...     print
...
sum(v * r[k] for k,v in m)
[6.2493009567260742, 6.1892399787902832, 6.2634339332580566]

sum(starmap(mul, ((r[name], hour) for name, hour in m)))
[9.3293819427490234, 10.280816078186035, 9.2766909599304199]

sum(imap(mul, imap(r.__getitem__, names), hours))
[5.7341709136962891, 5.5898380279541016, 5.7318859100341797]


-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From andre.roberge at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 16:35:25 2009
From: andre.roberge at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9?=)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 13:35:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: pyjamas in action?
References: 
Message-ID: <09fc970b-febe-4c73-9443-e10550bca916@j19g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 31, 4:46?pm, kj  wrote:
> At work we want to implement a webapp using Google's GWT, and we're
> debating whether to use the standard GWT approach with Java, or to
> try Pyjamas. ?There's no great love here for Java, but there's the
> concern that Pyjamas will not be able to deliver the full power
> and/or convenience of standard Java-based GWT. ?(Why-oh-why did
> Google pick Java for this? ?Couldn't Guido twist some arms? ?Just
> kidding.)
>
> Are there any examples of real production websites implemented with
> Pyjamas?
>
> TIA!
>
> kynn

Perhaps you might get answers faster if you posted to the pyjamas
group: http://groups.google.com/group/pyjamas-dev

Andr?


From mcravitz at att.net  Mon Aug 31 16:36:25 2009
From: mcravitz at att.net (MikeC)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 13:36:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: win32ui DLL Load Failed
References: 
Message-ID: <19449021-bcd4-4917-867f-882b9b586467@p36g2000prn.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 31, 12:43?pm, MikeC  wrote:
> I have a python executable that's failing to load on a user's machine
> running Windows XP. My developer machine is also running Windows XP. I
> have determined that it is failing when it attempts to load win32ui.
>
> I have Python 2.6 on my developer machine and am using the pywin
> support (Mark Hammonds???) for Python 2.6.
>
> In order to make the problem smaller and more managable I created an
> executable (with pytoexe) of a 1 one-line python script which does the
> following:
>
> import win32ui
>
> Running the one-line script on my machine from python source as well
> as from the executable created from the one-line source works fine on
> my machine. But when I attempt to run the executable on a target
> Windows/XP user machine (without Python) it fails with the following
> traceback
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? File "CheckScan.py", line 7, in 
> ? File "PrintImage.pyc", line 1, in 
> ? File "win32ui.pyc", line 12, in 
> ? File "win32ui.pyc", line 10, in __load
> ImportError: DLL load failed: This application has failed to start
> because the application configuration is incorrect. Reinstalling the
> application may fix this problem.
>
> The only thing I can think of regarding the difference between my
> machine and the target machine is that I have the .NET framework on my
> machine. Is it possible that that is the problem? Running Depends
> didn't get me anywhere. I would appreciate any help you can offer.

I assume you're asking about my development machine. Yes I have it
installed. When I bring up PythonWin.exe, here is what is displayed at
the top of the main dialog.

PythonWin 2.6.1 (r261:67517, Dec  4 2008, 16:51:00) [MSC v.1500 32 bit
(Intel)] on win32.
Portions Copyright 1994-2008 Mark Hammond - see 'Help/About PythonWin'
for further copyright information.


From zuo at chopin.edu.pl  Mon Aug 31 16:40:51 2009
From: zuo at chopin.edu.pl (Jan Kaliszewski)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 22:40:51 +0200
Subject: Efficient way to sum a product of numbers...
In-Reply-To: 
References: <73c1558e-8103-431a-9830-dead8024200b@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>
	<4A9BFAA3.3000308@tim.thechases.com>
	
Message-ID: 

31-08-2009 o 22:28:56 Jan Kaliszewski  wrote:

> >>> setup = "from itertools import starmap, imap ; from operator
> import mul; import random, string; names = [rndom.choice(string.
> ascii_letters) for x in xrange(10000)]; hours = [random.randint(
> 1, 12) for x in xrange(1000)]; m = zip(names, hours); workers = 
> set(names); r = dict(zip(workers, (random.randint(1, 10) for x i
> n xrange(en(workers)))))"

Erratum -- should be:

   >>> setup = (
   ...     'from itertools import starmap, imap;'
   ...     'from operator import mul;'
   ...     'import random, string; names'
   ...     ' = [random.choice(string.ascii_letters)'
   ...     '    for x in xrange(10000)];'
   ...     'hours = [random.randint(1, 12)'
   ...               for x in xrange(10000)];'
   ...     'm = zip(names, hours);'
   ...     'workers = set(names);'
   ...     'r = dict(zip(workers, (random.randint(1, 10)'
   ...     '                       for x in xrange(len(workers)))))'
   ... )

-- 
Jan Kaliszewski (zuo) 


From ethan at stoneleaf.us  Mon Aug 31 18:07:02 2009
From: ethan at stoneleaf.us (Ethan Furman)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 15:07:02 -0700
Subject: Object Reference question
In-Reply-To: 
References: <2dcf41c3-6623-48d9-bb74-97f753088479@c34g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>	<9feee13c-117e-4806-b238-e4152a68adfb@18g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
	
	
Message-ID: <4A9C4986.3010405@stoneleaf.us>

josef wrote:
> On Aug 27, 1:35 pm, Ethan Furman  wrote:
> 
>>josef wrote:
>>
>>>Thanks to everyone who responded.
>>
>>>I will be going with some sort of a = MyClass(name = 'a') format. It's
>>>the Python way.
>>
>>>For me, it was very hard to accept that EVERYTHING is an object
>>>reference. And that there are no object reference names, just string
>>>entries in dictionaries. But I think it all makes sense now.
>>
>>>Thanks again,
>>
>>>Josef
>>
>>My apologies if I missed it, but what *exactly* are you planning on
>>doing with your 'name' attribute?  From the posts I've seen so far, I
>>think you are only setting yourself up for failure.
>>
>>~Ethan~
> 
> 
> I'm going to use it for printing purposes. dk = MyClass(name='dk')
> When I need a name dk.name. There will only ever be one dk defined.
> 
> Does that read like I'm setting myself up for failure?

I was hoping someone with more expertise than myself would answer that. 
  :)  Oh well.

The best answer I can give is that you do not want to use 'name' to 
reference the object itself, but only for printing/debugging purposes. 
'name' is just a label for your object, and not necessarily the only 
label;  that particular label may also be lost... Consider:

In [5]: class MyClass(object):
    ...:     def __init__(self, name):
    ...:         self.name = name
    ...:     def __repr__(self):
    ...:         return "MyClass(name='%s')" % self.name
    ...:

In [6]: dk = MyClass(name='dk')

In [7]: dk
Out[7]: MyClass(name='dk')

In [8]: se = dk

In [9]: del dk

In [10]: se
Out[10]: MyClass(name='dk')

In [11]: dk
-------------------------------------------------------------------
NameError                         Traceback (most recent call last)

C:\pythonlib\ in ()

NameError: name 'dk' is not defined

As you can see, just because you have saved the original name does not 
gaurantee that same name will always reference that same object, or any 
object.

Hope this helps!

~Ethan~


From rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk  Mon Aug 31 18:40:12 2009
From: rhodri at wildebst.demon.co.uk (Rhodri James)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 23:40:12 +0100
Subject: lambda functions
In-Reply-To: <5369eaa8-bcda-44e0-90c3-8972f2b1eb91@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
References: <5369eaa8-bcda-44e0-90c3-8972f2b1eb91@g23g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 08:41:57 +0100, Pierre   
wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I would like to know if it is possible to define a loop in a lambda
> function....
>
> How to manage the indents ? Example :
> s_minus_1 = lambda s : for index in range(0, len(s)) : s[index] = s
> [index]-1

You can't use commands in a lambda function, only expressions.  The nearest
thing I can think of to what you want here is to use a list comprehension:

   s_minus_1 = lambda s : [i-1 for i in s]
   my_list = s_minus_1(my_list)

On the other hand, giving a name to an anonymous function rather defeats
the point of it being an *anonymous* function!  What are you actually
trying to do here?  There's almost certainly a better way to do it than
this.

-- 
Rhodri James *-* Wildebeest Herder to the Masses


From bh at izb.knu.ac.kr  Mon Aug 31 19:15:53 2009
From: bh at izb.knu.ac.kr (Byung-Hee HWANG)
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 08:15:53 +0900
Subject: An assessment of the Unicode standard
References: <2ad2272a-e016-4c07-92cf-39f7823acf05@o35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>
	<3e9ddb9b-8f61-4d8d-a25c-7e95e8a25c06@g1g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>
	
	<200908311019.58029.hendrik@microcorp.co.za>
	
Message-ID: <86tyzninh2.fsf@betla.izb.knu.ac.kr>

Nigel Rantor  writes:

> Hendrik van Rooyen wrote:
>> On Sunday 30 August 2009 22:46:49 Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
>>
>>> 	Rather elitist viewpoint... Why don't we just drop nukes on some 60%
>>> of populated landmasses that don't have a "western" culture and avoid
>>> the whole problem?
>>
>> Now yer talking, boyo!  It will surely help with the basic problem
>> which is the heavy infestation of people on the planet!
>> :-)
>
> 
> On two conditions:
>
> 1) We drop some "test" bombs on Slough to satisfy Betjeman.
>
> 2) We strap both Xah and r to aforementioned bombs.
> 
>
> 
> Also, I'm surprised no-one has mentioned Esperanto yet. Sounds like
> something r and Xah would *love*.
>
> Slightly off-topic - does anyone have a good recipe for getting
> thunderbird to kill whole threads for good? Either based on a rule or
> just some extension I can use?
>
> The Xah/r threads are like car crashes, I can't help but watch but my
> time could be better spent and I don't want to unsub the whole list.
> 

Please do not insult Xah. He spoke nothing in this threads. 

-- 
"After the divorce I gave Ginny and the kids more than the courts said I 
should."
		-- Johnny Fontane, "Chapter 1", page 36


From ecir.hana at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 19:29:45 2009
From: ecir.hana at gmail.com (Ecir Hana)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 16:29:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Executing python script stored as a string
Message-ID: <720b423c-7058-4605-96a0-b62f56aec791@s6g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>

Hello,

please, how to execute a python script stored as a string? But let me
impose several limitations, so simple "exec" wont work:

- if I understood it correctly defining a function in the string and
exec-ing it created the function in current scope. This is something I
really don't want

- simple exec also blocks the rest of the program

- I also would like the string to be able to use and return some parts
of the caller

So to give an example what I try to achieve:

result = []
def up(s):
  result.append(s.upper())

code = '''
up("abc")
print 'hello'
i = i + 3
def x(s):
  up(s)
x('def')
print i
'''

somehow_execute(code)

Couple of points:

- the script in string should behave just like any other ordinary
python script executed in separate process, except it should also know
about a function caller "up". Nothing else. (I read that something
similar is possible while embedding python into your C project - that
you could invoke the VM and provide some default "imports")

- if the other script runs in separate process how should it call the
remote function? And how to pass its arguments? I really hope I don't
have to serialize every communication, maybe I should use threading
instead of process? All I want is that running it wont block the
caller and that it cannot modify callers code/variables/scope (apart
from calling the predefined callers' functions). Or maybe even better,
let it block the caller but provide a way to stop its execution?

- how to know that the script finished? I was thinking about atexit()
- could it work here?

Think of it as a text editor with a special ability to execute its
content, while providing access of some of its functionality to the
script.

The reason I *think* I cannot just simple import the "editor" module
into the script is that the"editor" is GUI application and script
should have access to just this instance of editor.

Anyway, I hope I was not too confusing. Thanks for any help!


From steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au  Mon Aug 31 19:31:14 2009
From: steve at REMOVE-THIS-cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 31 Aug 2009 23:31:14 GMT
Subject: Is behavior of += intentional for int?
References: 
	
Message-ID: <0025e0c6$0$2930$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:21:22 -0700, zaur wrote:

> As a result of this debate is not whether we should conclude that there
> should be two types of integers in python: 1) immutable numbers, which
> behave as constant value; 2) mutable numbers, which behave as variable
> value?

What can you do with mutable numbers that you can't do with immutable 
ones, and why do you want to do it?



-- 
Steven


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Aug 31 19:52:35 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 31 Aug 2009 16:52:35 -0700
Subject: a popen question. Please help
References: <473423.84282.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4A9A65D7.4020308@tim.thechases.com>
	<50697b2c0908300449i65d22994ra6d63b0bbdb1d201@mail.gmail.com>
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
Tim Chase   wrote:
>
>Darn "standards" :-/

The wonderful thing about standards is that there are so many to choose
from.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I support family values -- Addams family values" --www.nancybuttons.com


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Aug 31 20:00:31 2009
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: 31 Aug 2009 17:00:31 -0700
Subject: Overriding iadd for dictionary like objects
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

In article ,
RunThePun   wrote:
>On Aug 30, 10:33=A0pm, a... at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote:
>> In article .com>,
>> RunThePun =A0 wrote:
>>>
>>>I made a DictMixin where the keys are filenames and the values are the
>>>file contents. It was very simple and easy to do thanks to DictMixin.
>>>
>>>For example this code writes "abc" in a file named "temp.txt" and
>>>prints the contents of the file named "swallow", these files are
>>>looked up/created/deleted in the directory "spam":
>>>>>> d =3D3D FilesDict('spam')
>>>>>> d['temp.txt'] =3D3D 'abc'
>>>>>> print(d['swallow'])
>>>
>>>My problem arose when I wanted to append a string to a file which
>>>using open(..., 'ab') would have been miles more efficient because I
>>>wouldn't have to read the entire file (__getitem__) and then write the
>>>entire file back (__setitem__). The files are expected to be as big as
>>>600 KB which will be appended 30 bytes at a time about 3 times a
>>>second. Performance-wise the system would probably work without open
>>>(..., 'ab') but it would be a real thrashing so the current solution
>>>uses a method "AddTo" as Robert suggested, sacrificing the neat
>>>getitem/setitem syntax.
>>
>> You can do mostly what you want, I think, by having __setitem__()
>> convert string values into FileProxy() objects that have an appropriate
>> __iadd__() method. =A0That brings a whole new set of problems, of course.
>
>I'm guessing you meant __getitem__, which is what Jan Kaliszewski
>suggested, but as you noted, would be a bit cumbersome in this case.

Actually, what I meant was __setitem__.  The idea is that you create the
proxy item when you add the data to the dict (wrapping the original
data), and the proxy has an __iadd__ method, which would allow you to do
the file append.
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"I support family values -- Addams family values" --www.nancybuttons.com


From trinh.vo at jpl.nasa.gov  Mon Aug 31 21:32:26 2009
From: trinh.vo at jpl.nasa.gov (Vo, Trinh (388C))
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 18:32:26 -0700
Subject: Python installation
Message-ID: <63E24D720DCE7246ABAA722B52D23CDF0153D3073233@ALTPHYEMBEVSP10.RES.AD.JPL>

Hello Python Users,

I am new to Python.  I have errors message when I installed Python.  I appreciate if you can help.

I download Python-2.6-2.  I then did the following steps:
./configure
make

In the second step "make", I had the following message:


Failed to find the necessary bits to build these modules:
_bsddb             _curses            _curses_panel
_hashlib           _sqlite3           _ssl
_tkinter           bsddb185           bz2
dbm                dl                 gdbm
imageop            readline           sunaudiodev
To find the necessary bits, look in setup.py in detect_modules() for the module's name.
I however still saw the binary python was installed in /usr/local/Python-2.6.2.  I tested, and it till run OK.  However, I am worried if the above message can cause any problem in  the future.  I have on my cluster:
X86_64
GCC version 4.1.2  (Red Hat 4.1.2-42)

Thank you,

Trinh Vo
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

From benjamin.kaplan at case.edu  Mon Aug 31 22:26:26 2009
From: benjamin.kaplan at case.edu (Benjamin Kaplan)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 22:26:26 -0400
Subject: Python installation
In-Reply-To: <63E24D720DCE7246ABAA722B52D23CDF0153D3073233@ALTPHYEMBEVSP10.RES.AD.JPL>
References: <63E24D720DCE7246ABAA722B52D23CDF0153D3073233@ALTPHYEMBEVSP10.RES.AD.JPL>
Message-ID: 

On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 9:32 PM, Vo, Trinh (388C) wrote:
> Hello Python Users,
>
>
>
> I am new to Python.? I have errors message when I installed Python.? I
> appreciate if you can help.
>
>
>
> I download Python-2.6-2.? I then did the following steps:
>
> ./configure
>
> make
>
>
>
> In the second step ?make?, I had the following message:
>
>
>
>
>
> Failed to find the necessary bits to build these modules:
>
> _bsddb???????????? _curses??????????? _curses_panel
>
> _hashlib?????????? _sqlite3?????????? _ssl
>
> _tkinter?????????? bsddb185?????????? bz2
>
> dbm??????????????? dl???????????????? gdbm
>
> imageop??????????? readline?????????? sunaudiodev
>
> To find the necessary bits, look in setup.py in detect_modules() for the
> module's name.
>
> I however still saw the binary python was installed in
> /usr/local/Python-2.6.2.? I tested, and it till run OK.? However, I am
> worried if the above message can cause any problem in ?the future.? I have
> on my cluster:
>
> X86_64
>
> GCC version 4.1.2 ?(Red Hat 4.1.2-42)
>
It's only a problem if you want to use those modules. Personally, I
would rebuild it with some more of those (just install those libraries
and the dev versions if red hat keeps them separate) but Python can
run fine without them.

>
>
> Thank you,
>
>
>
> Trinh Vo
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
>


From terry.yinzhe at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 22:37:10 2009
From: terry.yinzhe at gmail.com (Terry)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 19:37:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Return value of multiprocessing manager registerred function
References: <4337084f-cf9b-4b9c-a0cc-ba8f0821f31a@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
	
Message-ID: <69078aec-d556-4a7b-963e-373fe0b39c9e@b18g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 31, 5:58?pm, jacopo  wrote:
> Hi Terry,
> I have just started working on similar things and I am strugling to
> find examples or documentations. So far I have found only the official
> documentation of the multiprocessing package. Would you be able to
> recommend me some good reference or a book. I dont want to overwhelm
> this newsgroup with questions... yet :)
> Regards, Jacopo
>
> On Aug 26, 4:22?am, Terry  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi,
>
> > I'm using the multiprocessing.manager to run proceduresremotely. It
> > all worked fine except I hope to have a different return value type.
>
> > The remote function calls always return a proxy, which when I need to
> > get the value it need to connect to the manager again to fetch it. But
> > I just need the value, not the proxy.
>
> > Can I just return the value instead of a proxy from a manager?
>
> > br, Terry
Hi Jacopo,
Well, I also have had a hard time to find any examples or document
except the official document. I had to read the multiprocessing source
code (they are all in python except the network connection parts). And
I found I need to hack it a little to get it work.
You can share your questions, and maybe it's common to most of us.

br, Terry


From terry.yinzhe at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 22:41:26 2009
From: terry.yinzhe at gmail.com (Terry)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 19:41:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: multiprocessing managers and socket connection.
References: <722664f1-81af-45da-ae40-070bca8f3ee0@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
	<0af6687a-e36d-47c3-af5e-7e66eacbb3ce@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com> 
	<7d8f3f17-3cd7-4eb1-b049-2990d638cc46@o6g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <6be90391-085f-4ba1-9ed4-88f77ad11c2d@e18g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 26, 7:25?pm, Chris  wrote:
> On Aug 25, 9:11?pm, Terry  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 25, 10:14?pm, Chris  wrote:
>
> > > I've been using multiprocessing managers and I really like the
> > > functionality.
>
> > > I have a question about reconnecting to a manager. I have a situation
> > > where I start on one machine (A) a manager that is listening and then
> > > on another machine (B) connects to that manager and uses its proxy
> > > object to call functions on the manager's computer; this all works as
> > > expected. But, if the manager from A shuts down, B's application won't
> > > notice because in the MP code it ignores socket error
> > > errno.ECONNREFUSED. If A becomes available again or is restarted, B
> > > doesn't automatically reconnect either and continue its operation.
> > > It's function is basically stopped.
>
> > > Here is the code from connection.py:
> > > while 1:
> > > ? ? ? ? try:
> > > ? ? ? ? ? ? s.connect(address)
> > > ? ? ? ? except socket.error, e:
> > > ? ? ? ? ? ? if e.args[0] != errno.ECONNREFUSED: # connection refused
> > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? debug('failed to connect to address %s', address)
> > > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? raise
> > > ? ? ? ? ? ? time.sleep(0.01)
> > > ? ? ? ? else:
> > > ? ? ? ? ? ? break
>
> > > How can I have B automatically reconnect to A and continue its work
> > > once A is available again?
>
> > I think you need to retry repeatedly until successfully connected.
>
> > br, Terry
>
> I'm having issue after once connected. If the server goes down during
> a long-running connection. I would want to be notified so I could try
> to reconnect. I'm doing more experimenting now and will try to post an
> example.

Hi Chris,

Are you sure that the proxy object keeps a permanent connection to the
server?

br, Terry


From 71david at libero.it  Mon Aug 31 23:06:14 2009
From: 71david at libero.it (David)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 05:06:14 +0200
Subject: Why does this group have so much spam?
References: <7294bf8b-9819-4b6d-92b2-afc1c8042a06@x6g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<7l1wem586nhf.c8spq9wpqg99.dlg@40tude.net>
	
	
	
	<171zfm8mhuokq.1e4ltdmqqfp01.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: <121ziuuxjq6wq$.1vey8y61a3y3s$.dlg@40tude.net>

Il Mon, 31 Aug 2009 21:04:27 +0200, David ha scritto:


> Obviously the owner can not be charged 
I mean: can not be jailed for crimes made by the thief using his car.

D.


From rt8396 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 31 23:06:54 2009
From: rt8396 at gmail.com (r)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 20:06:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Why does this group have so much spam?
References: <7294bf8b-9819-4b6d-92b2-afc1c8042a06@x6g2000prc.googlegroups.com>
	<7l1wem586nhf.c8spq9wpqg99.dlg@40tude.net>
	 
	
	
	<171zfm8mhuokq.1e4ltdmqqfp01.dlg@40tude.net>
Message-ID: 

On Aug 31, 2:04?pm, David <71da... at libero.it> wrote:
(snip)
> It's a question of point of view: in italy if a thief steals a car and
> causes an accident the car's owner's assurance (having a car assurance is
> mandatory) must refund the victims. That's because protections of victims is
> first priority.
> Obviously the owner can not be charged

Is the car owner not a victim too? :). i am ok with the filthy
insurance company paying as long as the owners rates don't increase.
But why can't we force the criminal into hard labor to pay back the
lost monies? Seems like that would serve justice to all parties...

> That's a problem of the computer owner. Why should the rest of the world be
> charged of *his* problem while keeping him safe from suffering any
> consequence?

No, why should spammers feel safe while doing their crimes? I say put
the pressure on criminals, and NOT the victims. I really doubt much is
being done to fight spam now that is why it is so prevalent. Two FBI
hackers can't keep up with billions of spams.

> Madness, you say? Let's examine the situation a bit moore deeply.
>
> First, the mail-tax would is not for rebuilding the destroyed building after
> the attack but, at the opposite, to prevent the attack. Wouldn't you pay a
> small tax to prevent terrorist's attacks?

Only if that tax was given to highly trained US Marines who where
given a green light to use any and all methods to brutally kill the
enemy and make an example of him with no worry of prosecution by their
own government.

> The mail-tax would be really small, if you send 1000 mails at month (a real
> huge traffic, for a non spammer!) the bill would be about 10 cents.
> Do you really think this is too much to get rid of most of the spam?

I don't think that will stop most spammers since they must be making
more that a 10c a month profit or they would starve to death! I say
why not put a 1000.00 fine on any idiot that responds to a spam! What
about that?

> We are paying and hidden tax in terms of HW and human resources needed by
> ISPs to manage that huge (~90%) useless/malicius traffic. (I don't mention
> const related to dalays, denial of services, theft of informations...)
(...snip)

The system is definitely flawed. I am no internet expert so i don't
really know what we could do to fix it. I do fear goverment or
corporations taking over of the internet and robbing use of our
freedom of speech under the pretense that they will *somehow* save us
from the spammers. Something must be done however.

I *do* know however that M$ windows ships with its back doors wide
open and you could put a lot of blame of M$ for this stupidity! And
since their product is meant for computing morons why do they still
ship it in such a vulnerable state... complete madness!

> Finally a little criticims: spam and related malware is a problem growing
> day by day. I am proposing a solution and if somebody doest't like it, well,
> he should propose a better one. Just saying "NO!" and turning head aside
> hoping that the problem will solve by itsef is no more acceptable.
(snip)

I agree with you, we must do something...






From steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au  Mon Aug 31 23:31:35 2009
From: steven at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au (Steven D'Aprano)
Date: 01 Sep 2009 03:31:35 GMT
Subject: Executing python script stored as a string
References: <720b423c-7058-4605-96a0-b62f56aec791@s6g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 16:29:45 -0700, Ecir Hana wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> please, how to execute a python script stored as a string? But let me
> impose several limitations, so simple "exec" wont work:
> 
> - if I understood it correctly defining a function in the string and
> exec-ing it created the function in current scope. This is something I
> really don't want


You can pass in a global and local namespaces to exec as arguments:

>>> x = 4
>>> ns = {'x': 4}
>>> exec "x += 1" in ns
>>> x
4
>>> ns['x']
5


See the docs for details.


> - simple exec also blocks the rest of the program


Run it in a thread.


> - I also would like the string to be able to use and return some parts
> of the caller

You can copy the parts of the current scope into the namespace you pass 
to exec, then later copy the revised values out again.

But are you sure you really want to take this approach? exec is up to ten 
times slower than just executing the code directly. And if the string is 
coming from an untrusted source, it is a *huge* security risk.



> Couple of points:
> 
> - the script in string should behave just like any other ordinary python
> script executed in separate process, except it should also know about a
> function caller "up". Nothing else. (I read that something similar is
> possible while embedding python into your C project - that you could
> invoke the VM and provide some default "imports")

If you want it to execute in a separate *process*, that's a whole 
different question. If you do that, you get separation of code for free, 
as well as separate namespaces. My approach would be to have a special 
module "common" which subprocesses can import, to get access to the 
shared functions. You will probably need to create some sort of message 
passing infrastructure to get results out of the subprocess into the 
parent process. 


> - if the other script runs in separate process how should it call the
> remote function? And how to pass its arguments? I really hope I don't
> have to serialize every communication, maybe I should use threading
> instead of process? 

If you want separate processes, they're *separate*. Threads are not.


> All I want is that running it wont block the caller
> and that it cannot modify callers code/variables/scope (apart from
> calling the predefined callers' functions). Or maybe even better, let it
> block the caller but provide a way to stop its execution?

As far as I know, you can't kill threads, you can only ask them to kill 
themselves.


> - how to know that the script finished? I was thinking about atexit() -
> could it work here?

I doubt it. You would need to poll each thread to see if it has completed.



> Think of it as a text editor with a special ability to execute its
> content, while providing access of some of its functionality to the
> script.

Something like this?

In the text editor, you have contents:

text goes here
and more text
# Python script starts here
x = 'a'
up(x)
print "foo"
# Python script stops here
more text again


and the user selects lines 4 and 5 and chooses the command "Execute". The 
script executes, and its output (foo) is appended to the end of the file:

text goes here
and more text
# Python script starts here
x = 'a'
up(x)
print "foo"
# Python script stops here
more text again
foo

Is this what you mean?

If so, I think you are making this much too complicated for such a simple 
use-case. Just publish an API which the script can use, and have the main 
text editor application specify a "script" namespace containing only that 
API. That could be a module:

>>> import math  # pretend this is your API shared module
>>> exec "myvalue = 42" in math.__dict__
>>> math.myvalue
42



Then execute the text using exec, but don't bother about putting it into 
a thread or subprocess. That just makes it harder to implement, and you 
have to worry about concurrency issues.



-- 
Steven